1 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,600 The combined lessons of the field of fire and the burning of 2 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,440 Harrenhal were heard loud and clear throughout Westeros. 3 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,760 There would be more violence, but there would be no more 4 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,520 battles, though there will be posturing for such, and there 5 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,519 will be those upset that no more battles were fought. 6 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,160 There won't actually be any. Before we speak of those 7 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,600 holdouts, we will speak of those who bent the knee thanks to 8 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,600 overwhelming force and or common sense, we might say, and how 9 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,240 this reverberated through the ages and in the immediate 10 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,240 aftermath. We'll start with a lot of 11 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,240 examples from A Song of Ice and Fire. 12 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,680 All 5 main novels are represented directly, plus 13 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,320 Duncan Egg, and these scenarios are paired with what's happening 14 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:33,280 in this phase of our Fire and Blood Crawl. 15 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:39,560 Each subjugated region must take stock of how the war cost them, 16 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,200 how much it cost them, or how much the decision to kneel 17 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,800 without a fight will cost them. For example, how will the Reach 18 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,680 react to a change in leadership for the first time in literally 19 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,760 thousands of years? How will the North react to a 20 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,440 Stark King who didn't fight at all? 21 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,720 These are all ongoing stories, they don't just play out in the 22 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,840 moment. These threads involve all the 23 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:08,520 kingdoms and unfold over multiple timelines because, 24 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,600 well, it affected the entire continent. 25 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,760 All that and more on this episode of History of Westeros 26 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,040 podcast Hello and welcome everybody. 27 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,600 We're here with you. As is almost always the case, on 28 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,040 Sundays, we're here at 3:00 Eastern on YouTube doing live 29 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,400 streams. Every episode can be found 30 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,840 afterwards, still on YouTube or on Spotify in video form, and 31 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,320 the audio version can be found almost anywhere you find 32 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,640 podcasts, whether Spotify, YouTube or elsewhere, Apple, 33 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,600 etcetera. And they are ad free if you join 34 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,080 us on Patreon. That's right. 35 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,400 Looks like you got a nice house with a dragon shirt there. 36 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,120 What are you? Drinking today, got a a non 37 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,800 standard mixture. I got a monster drink and I 38 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,400 don't even know what flavor it is. 39 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,440 It's a blue. Can anyone know? 40 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,640 Blue is always the same. But I mix it with the blue. 41 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,720 Blue Machine, Naked drink and watermelon Mountain Dew. 42 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,360 It's pretty tasty. All right. 43 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,800 I doubt it. As usual, I'm I'm having a 44 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,920 triple shot Starbucks here. Can this is. 45 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:16,000 I'm going to be very energized now. 46 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,880 Nina has contributed as per usual. 47 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,400 She's got a lot of great notes on both the field of fire and 48 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,400 the lessons and the kneelings. But also you should check out 49 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:31,040 good queenalley.tumblr.com. That's of course 1Y in alley and 50 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,720 the latest post there is. She got a question about 51 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,680 comparing Queen Alice and Eleanor of Aquitaine because 52 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,160 George has made comments about that. 53 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,760 Now that parallel isn't quite what you think as Nina points 54 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,120 out, and she brings up a few other parallels, so it's great. 55 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,320 If you enjoy historical parallels to A Song of Ice and 56 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,920 Fire, you should definitely check that post out. 57 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,080 We chatted about it for a while and it was very enlightening to 58 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,920 me personally. If you have questions of your 59 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,640 own, you can submit them live during this live stream if 60 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,840 you're watching. Or hit us up on 61 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,760 westeroshistory@gmail.com and this episode is brought to you 62 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,600 in part by patrons such as. I'm gonna name a couple new and 63 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,600 a couple old and one short and one long. 64 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,520 This is gonna be get ready for this. 65 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Alright, so a couple newer ones. Sir Dane of House Dane. 66 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,480 Pretty straightforward there, Mance. 67 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:22,640 Wrestle nice. Mance Wrestle the Terracottan 68 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,200 Son of the North. That's a cool one. 69 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,360 We've got Dagron, Marshall of the Axe, Captain of the Red 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,320 Tide. Resistance is futile as soon as 71 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,800 the Star Trek reference I appreciate. 72 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,040 Now get this one. This is one of our oldest 73 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,800 patrons, King Beyond the Wall. Sidney. 74 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,600 Jesse, the Fallborn Lord of Bluespring and the Haunted 75 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,320 Forest, wields A dagger of dragon glass and the Valerian 76 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,120 steel blade. Red Frost. 77 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:49,040 Mouthful. Yes. 78 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,760 Well armed. Well, title, yeah. 79 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,440 It was a great name. Yeah, right. 80 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,600 You can find all these patron names at historyofwesteros.com, 81 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,800 along with everything else we mentioned throughout this 82 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,280 episode. If you ever have a question 83 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:06,080 about something we've discussed on the episode, a link or how to 84 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,000 join us at Trivia, or how to sign up for Patreon, or anything 85 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,680 else we discuss, whether it's small or large, You can pretty 86 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,640 much find it all at historyofwestrose.com. 87 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,880 We we try to keep it all in one place, even though we're all 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,840 over the place. Got to have a central location, 89 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:20,760 right? That's history of westrose.com. 90 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:23,240 Yeah, even when something's not 100% up to date and it's still 91 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:24,520 going to point you in the right direction. 92 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,040 No. Here's the link to the discord. 93 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,440 Here's the link to the Facebook group. 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,320 Absolutely. Our website is nothing fancy, 95 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,400 but it is functional. It does every it's it's got all 96 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,720 the right links and takes you to all the right places, so it does 97 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,560 the job. And of course, I'll mention some 98 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,480 episodes at the end of this one that relate to this one if you 99 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,880 want to stay immersed. And let's get to a trivia 100 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,960 question that from now on, as we started I think last week, the 101 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,560 answer to the trivia question is during the episode. 102 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,280 Of course it'll be revealed at the end. 103 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Unlike past episodes where it's just random trivia question, 104 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,120 this one's a little from now on, we'll keep it a little more tied 105 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,560 to the content of the particular episode we're dealing with. 106 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,040 So in light of that, where is the last place we saw hot pie? 107 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,800 The character, not the food. Although if you want to tell me 108 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,040 the last place you saw hot pie, the food, feel free. 109 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:14,440 Does my television screen count? No man sends a super chat and 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,200 says hi everyone thrilled to be able to catch the live stream 111 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,000 today for ones All right, glad to have you here. 112 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,360 We also got a last minute question from Amanda that I'll 113 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,200 throw in years when she gave us a super chat. 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,840 Sure. Sean, have you tried the Grape 115 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:27,600 Raspberry sparkling? Ice I think that I've tried all 116 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,360 the sparkling ices, even the ones I knew I wouldn't like. 117 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,520 Like I don't like lemonade. I don't like super citrusy tart 118 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,120 stuff, so but I still there's like a cherry limeade. 119 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,600 And AI think there's a straight up lemonade flavor one. 120 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,200 There's a bunch of different flavors, but. 121 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,760 I've settled on black Raspberry is my favorite. 122 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,600 I really don't like that one. That's one of my least 123 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,200 favorites. Favorite thing? 124 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:47,600 I do like a lot of their places. What's that? 125 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,560 Is your favorite the grapefruit? Probably grapefruit. 126 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:52,920 Yeah, it doesn't taste like grapefruit. 127 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,400 That's a good song. Like regular grapefruit. 128 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,800 Anyway, so okay. So our first section is called 129 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,000 The Legend and The Lesson we gave fun and thought provoking 130 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,000 examples from Harrenhal which are neat and unique in their own 131 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,000 way. Because Harrenhal is still 132 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,760 standing. Obviously the field of fire is. 133 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,320 There's no physical evidence of that anymore. 134 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,760 But we're going to, we're not going to include other times 135 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,040 it's mentioned in Fire and Blood. 136 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,280 In other words as we work our way through Fire and blood Fire, 137 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,320 Field of Fire will come up again and we'll we'll tackle that when 138 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,000 it happens. Mostly we're interested in how 139 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,320 it is referred to 300 years later or nearly 300 years later, 140 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,040 and it rings out through the series in a variety of different 141 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,240 ways, at which was the point at the time. 142 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,560 I'm I imagine Aegon would be pleased that his intended 143 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:41,400 lessons still stretch beyond the lifespan of the Dragons, which 144 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,600 of course are now coming back, which is relevant to what we're 145 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,080 going to talk about. So let's start with the Game of 146 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,400 Thrones, Sean. Do you think that the people at 147 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,160 Westeros think about the Field of Fire as often as we think 148 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,160 about the Roman Empire? You know what they might They 149 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,640 certainly think about the Targaryen as often or more. 150 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,240 That's a good call. So in A Game of Thrones, Harlan 151 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,200 Tyrell's surrender to Egon after the battle is mentioned in the 152 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,560 appendix, like pretty thoroughly. 153 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,120 It's like a couple paragraphs, and it's in every book, Every 154 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,760 appendix has Harlan Tyrell surrendering to Aegon after the 155 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,480 field of fire. And yeah, so it was something 156 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,480 that George came up with as part of the original details, and 157 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,280 it's included as part of the the description of House Tyrell. 158 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,920 There's one for Lannister and Stark. 159 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,680 There's like a little blurb for each of this, so you all maybe 160 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,440 have noticed that before. Are there similar blurbs that 161 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,400 are repeated in all the books or is that one unique? 162 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,840 That was a little unique because it's longer, but I believe there 163 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,520 is one for some of the other houses I like. 164 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,480 It's it's much shorter for Dorn and and the North I believe. 165 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,280 But yeah, I don't think it includes the detail like there's 166 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:48,480 no mention. I don't think it's mentioned 167 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,520 Brandon the Builder. I don't think it's mentioned in 168 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,680 the appendix for the Starks. So maybe he is, but not with a 169 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,000 big description about. Two paragraph long doing this 170 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,320 and that not kneeling to Aegon or whatever. 171 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,040 Yeah. So that's this is that is a 172 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,880 little bit unique that it's so specific and unlike other parts 173 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,680 of the appendix, it's it's more detailed, but before the 174 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,280 appendix because the appendix is obviously at the end of the 175 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,680 book. Theon compares the northern 176 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:16,080 victory at the Whispering Wood to the Field of Fire just after 177 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,160 the battle. He's so excited. 178 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,600 He's like point out the huge disparity in case like there we 179 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,800 we killed 10 men to everyone we lost. 180 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,720 Of course the field of fire was more like 40 to one but still 181 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,000 you know he said the most since then. 182 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,440 I don't think he's right about that. 183 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,920 But you know theon's a little naive and a little excited in 184 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,440 the in the he just won this battle. 185 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,280 He's excited. It's understandable to be 186 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,680 thrilled and survive a a battle. You're being your first battle, 187 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,080 but that's a key point here that Catlin makes in response to 188 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,760 Theon. He says battle, not the war, 189 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,600 right? This was a battle, not the war. 190 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,320 You didn't beat Tywin, did you? And he's like, no, we didn't 191 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,840 beat Tywin. Now this is where, another big 192 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,200 difference, because for Aegon, it pretty much was the final 193 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:00,440 battle. This pretty much did end the 194 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,600 war. So that's another thing that's 195 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,640 like Theon, yeah, you're not that good of a comparison 196 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,320 actually, Theon, But still he said it. 197 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,680 So we wanted to address. It yeah and does a lot worse 198 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:11,840 things. We'll let this. 199 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,600 This is OK. Oh yeah, this is pretty small in 200 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,200 the scheme of things. You're right. 201 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,080 And to be fair, you know there's a lot of details lost in the 202 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,400 shuffle. We probably know the Field of 203 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,440 Fire better than Theon does, and but still, it goes to show how 204 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,760 these things get exaggerated and people try to compare their 205 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,920 achievements or achievements that are part of to other known 206 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:35,120 achievements. Whether there's one of the 207 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,080 biggest ones ever known or just the one of the most famous ones. 208 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,240 It makes sense that Theon would think of a famous battle and try 209 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,200 to compare it to that, you know, even if he's kind of wrong about 210 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,520 it. I've always thought that our 211 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,120 podcast here was very similar to the Gettysburg Address. 212 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,360 OK, so Theon also starts listing all the captives they took. 213 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,040 This is part of what prompts Caitlyn to say but no Lord 214 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,760 Tywin, huh? And perhaps as a nod to the 215 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,920 Field of Fire, since Theon brought it up, George had one of 216 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,600 the captives to be named Sir Garth Greenfield, which is 217 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,600 pretty much the closest you can get to Garth Greenhand without 218 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,440 actually being Garth Greenhand. So this is some sort of kin to 219 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,240 Sir Preston Greenfield of the Kingsguard. 220 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,840 Kingsguard. We're not sure what level, what 221 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,160 connection, and the greenfields are not a reach house, that's a 222 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,800 western house. But their sigil is all green. 223 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,000 And yeah, it would fit in the reach very well. 224 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,960 And Garth is extremely a Reacher name. 225 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,560 I mean, it's just a name that pops up all over but more 226 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:39,360 prominently in The Reach than anywhere else, so that seems 227 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,440 like a nod. Or maybe George just his his 228 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,840 mind took him there and he didn't realize it. 229 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Should have made it Garth Garth. Crintest hand? 230 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:51,840 Yeah. There's also a Wayne Greenfield, 231 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,680 Yes, Wayne and Garth Greenfield. No, there isn't. 232 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:56,080 Oh. I would have missed. 233 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,040 Not yet. There should be. 234 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,360 There should be. The lessons aren't active at the 235 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,200 start of the series, meaning the lessons of the Dragons, because 236 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,480 what's the point of a lesson about an extinct animal? 237 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,640 Who cares? It's it's cool, it's legendary. 238 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,400 But you're not like, oh, what if this happens again? 239 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,880 But then of course it does start to happen again. 240 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,360 You're like, oh, by the end of the first book you're like, oh, 241 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,600 there are Dragons. Come again. 242 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,040 Think about that. In the real world, we don't 243 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,760 worry about velociraptors getting into our garbage cans or 244 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,040 how to keep dodo birds as pets because it doesn't happen. 245 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,280 Like there is no dodo birds and there are no velociraptors, so 246 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,280 you just obviously don't care about what they might do. 247 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,960 Nina points out that people in Sothorios might wonder about 248 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,720 that or worry about that because they do have some sort of 249 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,000 velociraptor type species there, which is like damn Sothorios, 250 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,280 just not a good place to live. People more worry more about 251 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,800 ghosts in Harrenhal than Dragons, right? 252 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,240 Because they think ghosts still exist and they know Dragons 253 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,760 don't. Now Dragons are back and ghosts 254 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,840 might not have ever been real, although they probably are in 255 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,000 some form. Kyburn claims to have seen one, 256 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,080 and if someone wants to make this claim that Ghost and 257 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,600 Shadow, Baby and Shade are all pretty much the same thing, I 258 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,320 wouldn't argue that. It's just it's there's small 259 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,680 differences there, but it's the semantics, and at the moment 260 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:05,720 we're not really concerned with that. 261 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,240 We're not concerned with what's real, actually. 262 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,400 We're concerned with what people actually believe, because their 263 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,720 beliefs is what drives them, not what's true. 264 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,200 They believe Dragons can destroy castles because of Harrenhal. 265 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,120 They believe Dragons can wipe out entire armies on their own 266 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,080 because of the field of fire. And that was, as we've been 267 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,560 saying for quite a while, very likely part of Aegon's plan. 268 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:27,480 He wanted people to learn that lesson. 269 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,120 So when Danny comes to Westeros, some of those dormant thoughts 270 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,000 will return. The Draconic power that 271 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,720 destroyed Harrenhal has returned. 272 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,200 That makes it a legitimate fear, a thing that could really 273 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,160 happen. Details like size and age get 274 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,880 lost in the shuffle. That's what I mean by that is 275 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,440 Danny's Dragons will not be able to destroy Harrenhal. 276 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,280 They might be able to kill lots of people and burn things, but 277 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,480 only Valerian was able to do that. 278 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,840 But that's exactly the kind of detail that gets lost in the 279 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,200 shuffle. The common folk don't know that 280 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,640 difference. They don't know that only this 281 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,160 one really huge dragon could do that. 282 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,520 They just think a dragon did that. 283 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,640 More Dragons could do that. It's it's a much to get to boil 284 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,720 it down to. It's much to its simplest 285 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:07,880 explanation. So we know that's not accurate. 286 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,960 But again, it won't matter. It's what people believe. 287 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,840 Also. It's not far from accurate. 288 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,720 It's not crazy, for it's a reasonable rule of thumb. 289 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,880 Dragons destroy castles? Check. 290 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,400 Got it. Like being a little wrong about 291 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,440 that isn't going to be like, oh, they can't destroy castles. 292 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,120 Well, they're not worried about. It's like at all. 293 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,240 Yeah, it doesn't all, it doesn't all hinge on that one thing. 294 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,960 But this is where Dragons being extinct for so long actually 295 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,240 helps the disinformation, because ignorance is at the 296 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,400 heart of disinformation campaigns, real life or 297 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,360 otherwise. It's a lot easier to mislead 298 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,320 people on a subject they're very ignorant of. 299 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Common folk know diddly about Dragons. 300 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,640 Other than that, they're dangerous flying reptiles that 301 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,360 breathe fire. They really don't know much else 302 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,240 than. That like along the same line, 303 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,960 they don't know that much about Harrenhal other than it's the 304 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,560 biggest castle, so. A dragon destroyed the biggest 305 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,360 castle. Or maybe we know any dragon 306 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,560 couldn't do that, but some smaller Dragons could destroy 307 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:01,720 some smaller castles. Like. 308 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,600 So if if I was, if virus was actually on Danny's side 309 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,920 entirely, or if there was another virus, or if I were 310 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,440 someone like virus and I was on Danny's side, this is the kind 311 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,480 of information camp or misinformation or disinformation 312 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,360 campaign I would run. I would exaggerate the power of 313 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,440 Dragons. I would go tell my agents to 314 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,080 start spreading rumors in Taverns like Virus does, and in 315 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,440 other places where rumors will spread ports. 316 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,480 You know, places where the docks. 317 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,920 Just places where rumors will will go far and wide and just 318 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,960 start talking about how dangerous they are and how 319 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,440 deadly they are. Even though Danny's Dragons are 320 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,840 kind of small and they probably won't live up to that, it's it's 321 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,680 still sets the stage really well, so. 322 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,440 No castle is safe. That should be the yeah, yeah. 323 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,680 And Drogon is the color of Valerians that could really play 324 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,920 that angle up like, oh, and I mean AGO, Danny's Blood rider, 325 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:54,000 who knows who's not from Westeros, this dude, when seeing 326 00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:00,160 Drogon, like weeks old said there sits Valerian born again. 327 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,920 Like really? Like that's getting ahead of 328 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,080 yourself, aren't you? But it's cool. 329 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,520 And it's that's, that's Danny 1A, Clash of Kings. 330 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:08,960 Like the first chapter of The Clash. 331 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,160 Her first chapter of the Clash of Kings. 332 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,400 Yeah, right after they're born, like they're born in the last 333 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,440 chapter of A Game of Thrones. And here in this first chapter, 334 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,480 I goes like, there's Valerian born again. 335 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,520 And Danny's like, yeah, cool, all right, Yeah. 336 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,720 But, you know, but we're not, this, this story's not going to 337 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,360 go long enough for Valerian or for Drogon to get that big. 338 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,480 I mean, Drogon. Valerian was, you know, over 100 339 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,400 years old, of like 180 years old when he died or something crazy 340 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,280 like that. You don't think Martin's going 341 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,200 to write that much? Someone else, Maybe. 342 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,760 So now let's go to a Clash of Kings. 343 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,920 Tyrion again thinks about the Field of fire when he's looking 344 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,440 down at Stannis's ships burning during another battle, the Black 345 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:48,920 Battle of Blackwater. That's going to go down in 346 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,400 Westerosi history and be pretty famous, So here's a quote. 347 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,160 The low clouds caught the color of the burning river and roofed 348 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,960 the sky in shades of shifting green. 349 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,080 Eerily beautiful. A terrible beauty. 350 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,119 Like Dragon Fire, Tyrion wondered if Aegon the Conqueror 351 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,880 had felt like this as he flew above his field of fire. 352 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,079 What do you think, Sean? I think that the fact that 353 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:17,119 George has Tyrion consider this idea, thinking about how Aegon 354 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,200 would have felt, that makes me think that Aegon probably did 355 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,200 feel bad. You know, I think that's like. 356 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,119 I I imagine as much as George has included this story, he's 357 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,480 got a thought about it some right. 358 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,640 He'd clearly had more and more plans for this. 359 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,000 And I I, I hope that if this is ever ATV show that that is like 360 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,400 a struggle that Aegon has that that some of his kind of, I 361 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,960 don't even want to say cold because it's not like we know 362 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,160 that his personality is cold. We just don't know what his 363 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,960 personality is, you know? But yeah, he's. 364 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,920 A. So I hope that it's presented. 365 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,080 Maybe he is stoic. But not made of stone. 366 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,960 Does that make sense? I I hope it matters. 367 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,960 I hope he feels remorse for all the dead death that he's caused, 368 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,520 and he's trying to find justification for whether it's 369 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,920 stability for the realm or stopping some existential threat 370 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,080 from a prophecy. Whatever it is, I hope he's not 371 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,600 just blindly murderous, you know? 372 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,240 Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. 373 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,480 So Aegon was looking down at Green also, like Tyrion was now 374 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,560 his. He wasn't looking down at Green 375 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,440 fire. He was looking down at Green 376 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,360 things that he had set on fire, like the order of the green Hand 377 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,960 and all those green sigils of the gardeners. 378 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,040 And the field itself was grass. You know, it was dry, but it was 379 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,680 still a lot of it was green and, you know, may have been 380 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,560 Browning, but still there's a lot of green down there. 381 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,440 So Yep, green things on fire. Now Tyrion actually gets 382 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,240 agitated during this moment. He starts thinking about all the 383 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,480 death and suffering and he blames it on Stannis, but he 384 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,360 also blames it on himself. He's like, you know, I'm partly 385 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,480 responsible for this, but so are you Mr., Attacker Mr. You know 386 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,560 Guy invading the the capital here. 387 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,000 Aegon as well may have had that may have been part of his 388 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,400 thoughts. He's like, why are these idiots 389 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,400 fighting me? Can't they see they can't win? 390 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,120 Are they like wouldn't he probably be a part of him? 391 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,360 Might just wish they had bent the knee and just not had to do 392 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:58,120 this. Another part of him. 393 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,480 I'm like, well, it's this might save more lives if I'm able to 394 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,200 just demonstrate how foolish it is to stand up against me. 395 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,120 And it's maybe good to have one person to to make an example of. 396 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,840 So, yeah, you're right, Sean. It's like, that's the kind of 397 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,760 thing he could be torn off. He's like, well, but maybe it 398 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,760 would have been better if I didn't have to make an example 399 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,800 of this many people and kill this many people. 400 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,920 He might not be pleased about that. 401 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,720 He might, yeah, it might be something that weighs on him. 402 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:23,880 He might be convinced it was right. 403 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,520 Like Stannis. Someone like Stannis is just 404 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,600 very concerned, very, like confident. 405 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,160 At least the way he projects it is what he's doing is right, you 406 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,960 know, and he's he's confident in that and he doesn't really 407 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,640 second guess himself too much. Aegon might have that level of 408 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,440 of surety of him, of his own actions, but but maybe not. 409 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,400 That said, it's hard for us to know that. 410 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,000 It's hard to really get in Stannis's head, but I I don't 411 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,400 think that he is ignorant to the suffering that's caused. 412 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,200 You know, and what's the line? You know when you're like 413 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,240 hundreds of men will be killed, thousands. 414 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,240 Response, right? Like he knows what's happening? 415 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Yeah, But. But he's already made the 416 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,080 decision. This is what must be done, 417 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,240 however bad it is. Alternatives are worse. 418 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,680 So yeah. He wasn't saying that to be cold 419 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,560 or or snarky. He's just like, Nope, he's just 420 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:06,920 stating a fact. He's like, yeah, thousands of 421 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:07,960 people are going to die. I mean, he's not. 422 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,400 He doesn't seem upset about it. He doesn't seem happy about it 423 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,040 either. It's just a Yep, that's what's 424 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,160 going to happen. Like we can't. 425 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:14,960 It's it's unavoidable at this point. 426 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,320 Not to get too much of A tangent, but but it's it's sort 427 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,600 of necessary for him as a leader and but, but. 428 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,520 I'm going to say this, but he's he's still not sugar coating it, 429 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,840 right? Like he needs this subordinate 430 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,400 to understand that you are correct. 431 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,760 Hundreds will die. In fact, it will be thousands. 432 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,960 And we are doing it anyway. Get on, get in line, you know. 433 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:35,760 Yeah. Yeah. 434 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:37,760 Because the status is mine. Yeah. 435 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,040 The the laws of the realm are more important that those lives. 436 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,600 You know that he in his mind those laws protect lives in the 437 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,560 long run, even in the in the short term, you have to 438 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,040 sacrifice lives to uphold the law. 439 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,800 It's better than lawlessness or laws. 440 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,440 Should be made of iron, not pudding as he says. 441 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,960 Yeah, A Storm of Swords. Let's go there. 442 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Here's another good one. Elena Tyrell mentions it in 443 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,600 Santa One, so this isn't that far after the Battle of the 444 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,720 Blackwater, since that's near the end of The Clash of Kings. 445 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,040 And since Elena is so quotable, let's not miss our chance. 446 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,680 You Starks were kings once, the errands and the Lannisters as 447 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,840 well, and even the Baratheons through the female line. 448 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,880 But the Tyrells were no more than stewards until Aegon the 449 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,160 Dragon came along and cooked the rightful King of the Reach on 450 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,440 the Field of Fire. If truth be told, even our claim 451 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,120 to Highgarden is a bit dodgy, just as those dreadful Florence 452 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,280 are always whining. What does it matter, you ask? 453 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,840 And of course it doesn't. Except oafs like my son. 454 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,560 That's great. Nina reminds us, yeah, Olenna's 455 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,160 funny here, but she's got a goal here. 456 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,920 She's trying to manipulate Santa or maybe encourage Santa, but 457 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,640 into talking about Joffrey and potentially marrying into their 458 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,240 family. So she's you know she's she's 459 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,840 trying to worm her way into Santa's good graces here and but 460 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,120 still it's a it's still a great quote it fits so well here and 461 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:07,120 and it's it's going to come up a lot this idea of who really 462 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:11,800 deserves Highgarden and rightful king and what what that means 463 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,040 these are things that get continuously debated over the 464 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,960 next 300 years are still being debated in the current times as 465 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,760 you can see she brings it up and the Florence are always whining 466 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,800 as she says and that's that's Stannis's in laws which who of 467 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,440 course didn't even fight for him first they fought for Renly and 468 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,240 then they switched over to Stannis. 469 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,280 Now Jamie and Sir Cleos also mentioned it to Brienne, but 470 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,080 we'll come back to that shortly and Barristan mentions it when 471 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,000 Danny is planning her Dragon Double Deal maneuver on the 472 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,800 Astapori. This is a great yet quick 473 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,040 exchange. Dragon is worth more than any 474 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,400 army. Aegon proved that 300 years ago 475 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,240 upon the field of fire. I know what Aegon proved. 476 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,680 I mean to prove a few things of my own, and damn right she did. 477 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,720 That, of course, is like seconds before she says a dragon is no 478 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,200 slave. Makes a field of fire of the 479 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,200 slavers, and it's a real rah rah moment in the books where it's 480 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,600 just a great Barristan has learned, educated, not easily 481 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,480 scared, not frivolous in the slightest. 482 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,600 He, along with Tyrion, will be awed by the Dragons as much as 483 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,000 anyone, but he's also far more knowledgeable about what they 484 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,840 can do, and knowledge helps them be less afraid. 485 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,480 If you know what they're capable of, they're still scary. 486 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,120 It's not going to change that. But you're not going to just be 487 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,680 subject to Wild Rumour and and maybe you might learn that no, 488 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,480 actually, they can't all destroy castles. 489 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,800 Only the really enormously elite giant ones can do that, 490 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,120 apparently. Now it's not mentioned in A 491 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:41,600 Feast for Crows, but think of that amazing first chapter and 492 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,200 how they're discussing rumours of Dragons, which is very much 493 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,520 in line with what we're talking about now. 494 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,760 It's the first word of the book, Dragons, said Mollinder or 495 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,280 whatever. Now, to be clear, I think 496 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,600 they're discussing regular rumours, not planted ones, and 497 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,960 these are fairly educated people. 498 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,720 These are students at the Citadel, so their rumor, rumor, 499 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,400 discussion touches on the fact that they need to be careful 500 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,760 with what they believe and what they don't. 501 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,360 These are somewhat educated people. 502 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,400 They're smart about it. They're not just repeating what 503 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,880 they heard or exaggerating what they heard and playing the game 504 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,960 of telephone. So that's pretty neat. 505 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,000 But the point is the saying Even though they're more educated, 506 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,240 we're all familiar with the idea of gossip turning out to be 507 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,120 false, if not completely fabricated. 508 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,480 And we're all getting more and more familiar with that every 509 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,720 day. Living in the age of the 510 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,680 Internet and AI and all these other things and, you know, 511 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,920 intentional disinformation campaigns, which is a thing as 512 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,080 old as time but is more easy to perpetrate in current times. 513 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,320 In some ways, now we're all familiar with the notion that 514 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,320 sometimes fabrications aren't revealed to be such until much 515 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,480 later. Sometimes years, sometimes 516 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,160 decades, sometimes 100 years. We'd learn the truth of 517 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,280 something. People have been doing this 518 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,160 wrong for 100 years. Like you knew scientific 519 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,560 discovery changes what we learned. 520 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,160 Like, oh, all along this is we've gotten this wrong. 521 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,880 The sun doesn't revolve around the earth, you know, whatever, 522 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,720 whatever scientific discovery you want to name, there's 523 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,760 infinite examples. Westeros would have them too. 524 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,320 So in the in that intervening time before the truth is known, 525 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,960 if it ever is, that's when misinformation, rumor, and 526 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,480 hearsay can thrive. Because without the light of 527 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,120 truth, there's all these shadows that this misinformation can 528 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,680 thrive in. Something that greatly enhances 529 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,680 both the spread of and exaggeration of rumors is fear. 530 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,080 When you're afraid of something, your anxiety sort of spills into 531 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,560 your description of it. Or your maybe that fear is 532 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,000 legitimate, but you might still be anxious about it, and that in 533 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,200 turn spreads to the next person. And that just keeps it's part of 534 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,160 the telephone game that we refer to so often. 535 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,720 Fear is a big part of that to. Justify your fear. 536 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,720 You want the thing to be scarier. 537 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,680 You know that will add to the legend. 538 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,840 Add to the myth, it's a great point protecting your own ego, 539 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,080 your own pride a little bit by because people, especially in a 540 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,960 world like Westeros where people just can manipulate entire 541 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,120 countries based on are you scared? 542 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,240 And you know like how often does that work? 543 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,240 Are you know? Are you afraid? 544 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,200 You're like, I'm not afraid, like how that will work. 545 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,120 So many times that has worked on someone in the story, like just 546 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,520 accuse them of being scared and they're like I'm. 547 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,360 Not nobody calls me Yellow, yeah. 548 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:10,880 Exactly. No one calls me a coward. 549 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,280 No one calls me yellow. No one calls me Chicken Marty 550 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,040 McFly effect right there. Yeah. 551 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,760 It's just so it's just enormously effective and it's 552 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,880 just like we're too as a species. 553 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,800 We've got to get over this, like, but they're not going to 554 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,360 get over it in Westeros anytime soon. 555 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,560 So yeah, and this comes back to the rumoring, right? 556 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,520 This has already played out quite a bit. 557 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,360 Set aside what the Dragons are capable. 558 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,680 Just look at the crazy rumors about Danny, right? 559 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,000 Burning babies, killing her husband, Ken. 560 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,240 Slang like she didn't kill Viserys. 561 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,800 She did technically kill Drogo, but that's really. 562 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,120 I mean, come on, that's that's really splitting hairs there. 563 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,800 I think there's the rumor that she hatched the three headed 564 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,240 dragon, which is close to true, but not at you know, it's not 565 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,120 accurate. She had three Dragons, not one 566 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,280 with three heads. So someone like Tyrion hears 567 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,880 that and he's good at dissembling. 568 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,760 He's good at dissembling what he hears and deconstructing the 569 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,440 rumor and sort of pinpointing or at least narrowing down what's 570 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,040 probably true about it. Not always, because sometimes 571 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,840 it's just so distorted that you can't figure it out. 572 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,960 But this is the kind of thing he looks at and and sees through, 573 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,920 and he he kind of susses out some of the truth from this 574 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,520 crazy rumor. She's like, she didn't do that. 575 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,120 She didn't do that. Well, maybe she did something 576 00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:26,560 like that. You know, that's kind of where 577 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:27,920 he's at and that's where we're at. 578 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,920 And you can kind of, but we get to see, but we get the benefit 579 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,560 of seeing both sides of it. Tyrians more just figuring it 580 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,240 out through his own intelligence. 581 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:35,760 Even something like killing babies. 582 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,920 It's not like Danny took a baby and a dagger and cut his throat, 583 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,800 right? But she's the husband of a call, 584 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,880 right? Who kills babies like she's on? 585 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280 She's part of this horde. She's she's almost half in 586 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,360 charge of the army that just killed many, many babies. 587 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,960 It's not crazy to hold her responsible, you know? 588 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,320 Yeah, I mean, every military leader in in West W we've seen 589 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,960 is guilty of that. Rob's guilty of that. 590 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,560 They've his orders have caused the death of babies. 591 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,000 He hasn't stabbed any babies directly himself either, like 592 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,640 Danny. But yeah, I mean, Danny's dragon 593 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,040 killed a baby. Like she's partly culpable for 594 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,360 that. She feels that culpability. 595 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,880 The mother of Dragons. The Dragons kill babies. 596 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,560 She kills babies. It's you know exaggerated or 597 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,480 unfair maybe but not people aren't just making up random 598 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,000 things. It's it's it's based in 599 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,720 something and that's Tyrion is probably figure out what is this 600 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,560 based in you know? So think about that. 601 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,640 In Aegon's time we see the rumors told about Danny. 602 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,240 What were people saying about Aegon? 603 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,800 Like the description of Valerian must have just gotten really 604 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,240 insane. Like this dragon is the size of 605 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,880 Harrenhal, you know instead of it burned Harren. 606 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,640 I was like he swallowed Harrenhal whole. 607 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,880 He took a whole tower and swallowed it like. 608 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,480 All right, y'all, I mean, maybe that one you could probably 609 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,880 figure out isn't true, but people would be saying some 610 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,720 pretty crazy things probably similar to this. 611 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,640 Like the Targaryens drink blood and the Targaryens are godless 612 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,400 demon worshippers. And I mean look at what Maccoro 613 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,960 says about the Drowned God. Now I'm unless inclined to 614 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,680 disagree with Maccoro about calling the Drowned God some 615 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,840 sort of demon, but still, I mean, it's what he's saying is 616 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,960 he has no more. He doesn't have any better 617 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,400 information than even we do about what the true nature of 618 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,720 the drowned Gods. So, like, it's all just all just 619 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,840 hearsay, right? You know, I can imagine, just 620 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,760 want to say real quick, that Aegon might have been a little 621 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,840 bit more aware of the way the world works and how rumors go. 622 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,040 And that's why he maybe is over the top sometimes and being just 623 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,680 or fair or honorable when he can, right? 624 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,880 He wants to make sure rumors don't spread of tyrannical 625 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,960 things that he's doing. So he's making sure to be good 626 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,800 when it's time to be good so those bad rumors can't spread. 627 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,120 And then he's young and inexperienced. 628 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,240 But. She's I I think it's something 629 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,840 that she's learning and people around her want her to be aware 630 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,080 of. You know, Yes, an unfortunate 631 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,720 cousin of fear is hate, and that is certainly going to be in play 632 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,160 here too. Probably hit Danny harder than 633 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,800 it ever hit Aegon, because Aegon's a man and Westeros is 634 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,960 much more accustomed to male leaders. 635 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,400 Much more accustomed to accepting male leaders by by a 636 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,240 mile. Right. 637 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880 And Danny's also, and he's also a foreigner in their eyes. 638 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,400 Probably like she doesn't. She's barely from Westeros, 639 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,440 where Aegon at least lived there. 640 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,160 He was born there. I don't know if that actually 641 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,600 matters that much, but. There's no rumor spreading that 642 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,440 Aegon is a witch, right? Right. 643 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,760 But he just doesn't have to face half the rumors that a woman has 644 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,600 to face. But Vicenya and Rainey's 645 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,840 probably did have to face those things, So they are. 646 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,560 This element probably is present, it's just probably more 647 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,080 aimed at his sister. I mean, yes, Vicenya definitely 648 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,600 had black magic rumors. Now to be fair there seems to be 649 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,680 some some fire to that behind that smoke there probably was 650 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,120 some black magic in her side, but maybe not that it could be. 651 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,360 I mean I prefer to believe it because it's fun, not because it 652 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,880 says bad things about her. I think it's cool you know from 653 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,000 the world building. But yeah what that what people 654 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,920 believe in world about her is probably going to be a little 655 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,480 darker because of rumors like that and because she's a woman 656 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,000 in power. Now here is, like I said, not 657 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,200 directly mentioned in in A Feast for Crows, but it is in A Dance 658 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,240 With Dragons. Here we go. 659 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,600 Quote Viserys had told her all the tales when she was little. 660 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,160 He loved to talk of Dragons. She knew how Harrenhal had 661 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,760 fallen. She knew about the Field of Fire 662 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,840 and the Dance of the Dragons. This is sort of like a addition 663 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,320 to her first chapter, second chapter introduction stuff in A 664 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,320 Game of Thrones when she's thinking about all these places 665 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,880 she's never been but her brothers told her about like she 666 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,600 thinks of Harrenhal and the Isle of Faces and the Veil of Aaron 667 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,000 and all these things that are just names to her and which is 668 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,800 paired with Bran thinking about the Kingsguard. 669 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,960 He knew all the stories and he named all these famous 670 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,360 Kingsguard and all these famous examples of their deeds, which 671 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,640 is all part of the introduction of A Song of Ice and Fire as a 672 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,560 care, as a story with many different characters with a very 673 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,120 rich history that is a plays a very prominent role. 674 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,880 So George is introducing so many of these things early on, and 675 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:08,200 that's why even now, 27 years later, we still have ample 676 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,040 reason to refer to these very early part parts of the book, 677 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,680 which only get expanded on later. 678 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,040 I love that part. I love that quote. 679 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,760 It really does. It's like Denny's back in book 680 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,360 one when she's thinking about the tales that Viserys told her. 681 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,080 And yeah, just the Field of Fire. 682 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,960 She mentions the Dance with Dragons too, of course, which is 683 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,240 not, which is only a good comparison for us now since it's 684 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,240 still 130 years away in the actual timeline. 685 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,240 Now, it's not mentioned in the Hedge Night, and it's not 686 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,400 mentioned in the Mystery Night, but it comes up three times in 687 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,760 the sworn sword. It comes up a lot, and it comes 688 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,680 up in more, more than just being mentioned. 689 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,080 The most notable comes when they're passing through Watts 690 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,840 Wood, which had been burned like that. 691 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,000 Fire started there and it was the whole wood burn. 692 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,080 The description tells of extreme devastation. 693 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,480 It's referred to as a smoking wasteland, which there's a 694 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,480 description that will also be used about Dorn after the 695 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,440 Dornish War, so we'll be getting to that in due time. 696 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,000 Now that causes Sir Osgrey walking through the smoking 697 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,280 wasteland, have a coughing fit and once he catches his breath 698 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,400 he says quote. Field of fire must have looked 699 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,640 like this, Sir used to said it was there I was began 200 years 700 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,720 ago. The last of the green kings 701 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,720 perished on that field with the finest flowers that reach around 702 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,760 him. My father said the dragon fire 703 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,120 burned so hot that their swords melted in their hands. 704 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,600 Afterwards the blades were gathered up and went to make the 705 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,280 Iron Throne Highgarden pass from kings to stewards, and the 706 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,640 Osgreys dwindled and diminished until the marshals of the North 707 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,920 March were no more than landed, Knights bound and fealty to the 708 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,200 Rowans. A lot say about that quote. 709 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,640 So swords melting in their hands, that is a very that's 710 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,120 just a descriptive, a very poetic description there because 711 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,080 the sword is the the means at which they win this which they 712 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,240 achieve victory. It's the primary weapon. 713 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,720 It's a weapon. It's a tool only for killing. 714 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,520 As we've discussed before, a lot of weapons on the battlefield 715 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,560 are multipurpose or farm tools or hunting tools. 716 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,800 But swords are only for killing people. 717 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,280 Or Dragons, I guess if you're able to get close to them. 718 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,520 But no, not really. You're not. 719 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,640 Usually I don't. I can't think of an example of a 720 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,280 dragon being killed by the a sword actually, so never mind, 721 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,960 they might have thought that. Though you can try, you can try. 722 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,080 Yeah, you're welcome to try these. 723 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,520 These guys did, and they. You try with a rake or a spear 724 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,360 or whatever you want. Rake. 725 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,400 You might not think the rake is a weapon. 726 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,239 You might be that close that way, like I'm going to rake my 727 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,320 scales. It might feel good. 728 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,639 Like it's a back scratcher. Right. 729 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,880 Interesting that Sir Eustace's father told him this. 730 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,360 That's what he says is my father said the dragon fire burned so 731 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,639 hot that their swords melted in their hands. 732 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,040 Well, his father wasn't there. His father wasn't even close to 733 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,280 there. His father's father wasn't 734 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,639 there. His father's father's father's 735 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:37,520 father Wasn't there? His father. 736 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,320 I could go on for a bit because we're talking about an event 737 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,800 that was 196 years before Sir Eustace. 738 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,120 Well, Sir Eustace is in is old at this point, so Sir Yousis 739 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,199 will say he's 60 ish. So let's say he was born just 740 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,400 after the Dance of the Dragons. So he's still 130 years before 741 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,960 the Field of fire even happened, let alone being old enough to 742 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,520 process it or have even been there. 743 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,240 That said. Little did you know, his father 744 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:01,280 was the Green Seer before. Oh my gosh, I. 745 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,640 Had for my new theory, obviously. 746 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,480 No, he's a Gray Seer because he's an Osgro. 747 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:09,520 It's super super interesting though that the story was passed 748 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,560 down because the Ausgreys probably were at the field of 749 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,680 fire, like not used as his father, not his father's father, 750 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,760 but but some Osgreys or an Osgrey. 751 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,240 But probably multiples were there. 752 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,280 They were Marshall House, they were the Marshalls of the North 753 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,960 March. They're a house dedicated to 754 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,800 defending that part of the Reach. 755 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,720 So of course if there's a greater threat nearby within the 756 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,560 reach that their that their king calls them to, I mean they're 757 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,440 going to be one of the first ones to take the field according 758 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,040 to their own values, their own honor would demand that of them. 759 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,720 And there was no, we have no reason to doubt that they've 760 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,400 fulfilled their duty in that regard. 761 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,400 And they're a great example not only of a house that we know, a 762 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,520 lesser house besides the gardeners or someone like that 763 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,280 that would actually fought on the field of fire, unlike some 764 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,200 of these other greater houses, houses that are still big, like 765 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,680 Rowan and Oakhart, like they lost some prestige, but they're 766 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,240 still among the biggest houses in the Reach where Osprey faded 767 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:10,280 into obscurity. And the reason for that is 768 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,360 partly the conquest. They're no longer defend, 769 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,560 they're defending a border and no longer needs to be defended. 770 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,680 And that was their job for thousands of years. 771 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,920 So their position, their place in the hierarchy, they're just 772 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,280 not needed anymore, right? We talked about that a lot when 773 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,120 we covered the Sworn Sword, but what we didn't necessarily talk 774 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,680 about is how much that happened all over. 775 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,040 They're an example of what must have been happening all over the 776 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,680 Reach, all over the West. The Riverlands as well. 777 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,280 Just a lot of places. Well, maybe not the Riverlands 778 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,240 because of King Heron, but lots of places. 779 00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:46,000 Probably the Reach. Most of all though, I think they 780 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:51,520 are the best example of this, where their position in the 781 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,600 world was taken from them. Not not on purpose. 782 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,320 Aegon wasn't like Baha Ozgreys. You know you're worthless now. 783 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,840 No, it just it was just a side effect of reorganizing the 784 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,040 entire realm. So and and they're not able to 785 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,320 stay relevant. Like you saw what Osgrae tried 786 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,280 to do, what Yustis tried to do to stay relevant. 787 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,960 He he did manipulations and intrigues and tried to join 788 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,200 different sides and his he's just he wasn't very good at it. 789 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,080 You know it's his house has a tradition of war, not of being 790 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,680 courtiers. I mean, there probably were some 791 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,000 Osgrae's at court, at High Garden, but it clearly wasn't 792 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,040 their specialty. It wasn't their, their angle. 793 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,680 It wasn't the thing that they were famous for. 794 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,320 They didn't develop that, they didn't work on that. 795 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,920 They didn't pass down secrets of court, secrets of like things 796 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,520 that Varys had kids, things that he would pass these things down 797 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:39,520 to, you know, that kind of thing. 798 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,280 But no, that's not the that's not how it went. 799 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,760 We're going to play. There's plenty of examples like 800 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,920 that. Many that we can imagine. 801 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,000 Many that we can just assume of the old order shaken up in a lot 802 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,000 of houses that had you know noble positions of of value that 803 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,840 they could be proud of. That's just you just aren't 804 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,280 needed anymore. Time to retire and and that's a 805 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,240 tough thing for a house that's been around for so long or. 806 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,880 Find value in a new thing. Be a farmer. 807 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,560 Be an engineer, Be productive. You know, like be happy for this 808 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,920 new scenario that you have the ability, which is what a lot of 809 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,160 them. Ended up doing something more 810 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,040 long term to make an investment to not be killers, you know? 811 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:20,040 And it's very much symbolic of what burning a forest down does, 812 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,520 right? This is a complete fresh start. 813 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,160 It's brutal. Everything in that forest died. 814 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,640 The immediate aftermath is gross and terrifying, and you choke at 815 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,800 the sight of it and you cough at the fumes. 816 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,760 And 100 years later, it's a brand New Forest. 817 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,120 It looks really nice. There's no sign of the 818 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,080 devastation. And it's pretty good. 819 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,200 You know, it's like, maybe you maybe it shouldn't have happened 820 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,440 that way, but the current state of affairs that it's become is 821 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,320 good. You know, it doesn't mean it's a 822 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,280 justification, but it's undeniable that this New Forest 823 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,440 is nice and there's new animals there. 824 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,800 And yeah, the osgraves were themselves like one of those old 825 00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,960 trees. They're still, their roots ran 826 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:03,320 deep, but now they're just a stump. 827 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,480 I mean, I don't know, maybe that's kind of mean, but all 828 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,360 this is a parallel to Daenerys too, right? 829 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,400 Daenerys in Marine, she's trying to make changes, trying to root 830 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,680 out the evil and do good. But like a lot of the, a lot of 831 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,600 that involves uprooting people that are having OK lives, like 832 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,480 the older slaves that are now out on the street. 833 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,800 You know that that example played out both in book and show 834 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,280 and it was pretty heart rending. It's like, well, you understand 835 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,040 why Danny's doing it, and you understand that it's hard to 836 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,160 avoid things like this, but it's still like, damn these guys. 837 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,600 There's there's innocent people are definitely suffering here. 838 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,920 You know, these people aren't slavers. 839 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,320 They're part of this slaver hierarchy, but they're not 840 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,400 participating in it with force. They're just caught up in it. 841 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,080 You know, a slave within a slaver empire. 842 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,360 Like what? What power does he have? 843 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,280 Or she? So yeah, it's even if it's 844 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,560 worthwhile, there can be awful sacrifices to get there, and 845 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,440 it's just a really difficult position that both Aegon found 846 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,120 himself and Danny. It's probably going to be much 847 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,080 harder for her. The scenario is much different. 848 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,760 Westeros is already somewhat united and but is already at war 849 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,480 and in that sense is not united. And the clear and present danger 850 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,240 of this thing from the North is actually happening, unlike in 851 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,280 Aegon's time, where he's just preparing for it at some for 852 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:17,840 some later date. You know, it's an interesting 853 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,000 thought, by the way. Westeros is probably the least 854 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,760 united it's been since Aegon. Right. 855 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,000 Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, That's actually very true. 856 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,360 Yeah, I was going to say, even I wonder during a dance, I don't 857 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,680 know it as well, but I feel like the dance there weren't as that 858 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,040 there were really only two sides, right? 859 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,560 Like right now there's four or five sides or something, so. 860 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:39,880 Good point. Yeah, that's a good point. 861 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,400 There's more claimants. There's more claimants than 862 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,640 there's ever been, I suppose. Yeah, that's a good point. 863 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,320 I don't think there were. There were never that many 864 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,800 there. There's more ability for when 865 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,880 the dust settles, more likelihood I think, for when the 866 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,080 dust settles, for all the kingdoms not to be under one 867 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,960 throne anymore. Yeah, so the reason so many, or 868 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,600 so rather so few resist from here on out is because of all 869 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,320 these overpowering examples that the biggest and most powerful 870 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,360 had opposed Egon and his sisters and lost. 871 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,280 So think about will these people submit to Danny after she shows 872 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,400 overwhelming force, or will their prejudices or prior 873 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,040 loyalties or both prevent them from making the common sense 874 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,240 decision? Or will it be just other factors 875 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:17,680 that we're not considering that are mixed in it? 876 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,200 Who knows what kind of propaganda? 877 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,800 What kind of things people will believe about Danny that may not 878 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,800 be true or they've been misled on or whatever. 879 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,840 You know, we're also assuming Danny handles things well. 880 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,400 What if she just screws it up in multiple different ways that 881 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,200 that could, that could happen. So absolutely. 882 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,120 But we've talked a lot of times about how she. 883 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,720 Could make mistakes. Aegon seen a play just perfect 884 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,440 and it was the perfect moment for everything to happen. 885 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,320 That there's all kinds of things that could have been a little 886 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,960 differently and it wouldn't have gone as well. 887 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,360 So who's to say that? Danny Maybe even has better 888 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,480 intentions and better support than Aegon, but it's just the 889 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,120 wrong moment. She doesn't have the right 890 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,760 pieces to to to play, you know? And the optics, the optics are 891 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,760 different, Yeah, absolutely. So others will rush to bend the 892 00:41:58,760 --> 00:41:59,800 knee. And it shouldn't be seen as 893 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,640 cowardice, though I I mean, I wouldn't call it that. 894 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,120 Of course I probably wouldn't have anyway. 895 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,800 In some cases it is probably, but in. 896 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,280 But in other most cases I don't think so. 897 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,600 I think it's more about wisdom or even ambition because. 898 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,960 Rarely in the history of Westeros is bending the knee so 899 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,920 profitable. There's gain and and climbing of 900 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,760 the ladder to be had by bending the knee at the right time or or 901 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,200 with the right circumstances. So yeah, it's interesting to 902 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,160 consider that it's not just saving your neck, you can move 903 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,040 up in the world by bending the knee here. 904 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,680 Best example we've seen is next. Here, as Aegon heads to 905 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,040 Highgarden quote, King Aegon parted from his sisters and 906 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,880 marched once for Highgarden, hoping to secure its surrender 907 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,240 before some other claimant could seize it for his own. 908 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,880 He found the castle and the hands of its steward, Harlan 909 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,520 Tyrell, whose forebearers had served the Gardeners for 910 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,120 centuries. Tyrell yielded up the keys to 911 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,600 the castle without a fight and pledged his support to the 912 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,680 conquering king. In reward, Agon granted him High 913 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,000 Garden and all its domains, naming him Warden of the South 914 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,600 and Lord Paramount of the Mandor and giving him dominion over all 915 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,280 House gardeners for more vassals. 916 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,440 Definitely one of the largest promotions we'll ever see 917 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,360 Westeros. I mean, because the Reach is the 918 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:10,960 the most populous and the largest. 919 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,080 This isn't just it's a little different than the Tully's 920 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,280 getting. Until Game of Thrones when Bron. 921 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,640 Gets the reach, Bron, yeah. That's a bigger promotion. 922 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,000 You're right. Because Braun was a real nobody. 923 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,600 Or a sword of nobody, You guys say yes, he he hit a few long 924 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,800 rungs on the ladder before. He didn't go directly from cell 925 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,560 sword to the Lord of the. But there weren't very many 926 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,960 rungs on that ladder. It was a step ladder. 927 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,560 Honor and a lot less a good goodwill towards him than the 928 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,000 Tyrells. Yeah, I got to think that the 929 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,840 the equivalent of Olenna saying our claim to high gardens have 930 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,920 been dodgy like but not as dodgy as Braun. 931 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,840 Yeah, this is this March. Isn't that far, right? 932 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,080 But it is kind of far. Like it's not right next door. 933 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,720 The the field of fire took place in the northern area of the 934 00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,200 Reach, and Highgarden is, you know, more southwesterly. 935 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,720 And he didn't fly ahead on Valerian alone. 936 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:09,560 He took the whole army there, which is a little interesting. 937 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,920 Even though he was rushing, he still wanted to come in force. 938 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,680 So he wasn't maybe. Maybe not as as in a rush as. 939 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,000 It might have seemed it's a peculiar line, too. 940 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,600 Like, it says he's worried about someone else claiming it, which 941 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,040 is like, really, who's going to claim it with Aegon on Valerian 942 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:26,560 on his way? Like, who's going to jump in 943 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,520 front of that avalanche? Like, I'll stop here, Aegon. 944 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,840 I will like, like Chris Pratt in the Jurassic Park movie just 945 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,560 holds his hand out and Valerian stops. 946 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,720 Like, oh, a hand. I can't get past that, you know? 947 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,400 Should have. Should have thought of that 948 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,560 when? Well, they already did stop for 949 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:43,840 the green hands. It didn't work. 950 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,360 Yeah, we've already shown that the hands holding out of hand 951 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,080 does not stop Valerian. Unless it's maybe a real hand 952 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:50,760 works better than. A. 953 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,520 Punch him in the nose. Punch him in the nose like a 954 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,720 sharp. Said, Yeah, we talked about this 955 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,640 before, we just we got someone has to test this out. 956 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,720 So I don't know about that. This is a good example of us. 957 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,680 It just gives me more confidence in our deconstruction of some of 958 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,840 these histories, saying this probably isn't exactly what 959 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,440 happened or they've been probably misinterpreting some 960 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,440 things because, which is what Jars intended, right? 961 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,200 He's trying to sort of make it like a real history book, not 962 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,720 exactly like one. There's some things he didn't 963 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,360 include from real history that I'm glad he didn't, and I've got 964 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,640 a couple examples of that later. Nina disagrees with you a little 965 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,320 bit. She thinks it might be this one 966 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,520 may have. And I yeah, I kind of side with 967 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,120 her. I I 'cause I think that even if 968 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,920 it's not a smart person, someone might still do it. 969 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,000 And it would just be this new headache for Aegon. 970 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,360 So it's like he might have to, like, split his forces or bring 971 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,000 the dragon down. Or he wants to bring the dragon, 972 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,360 so he doesn't want to have to. Even if he can, he doesn't want 973 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,200 to have to deal with this. He wants the lesson to be made 974 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,720 right. He doesn't want to 'cause if 975 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,920 someone does this and it distracts him, someone else is 976 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,760 going to do it later. And if he has to, like burn 977 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,240 people to make him stop, then he then the negative rumors spread 978 00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:58,320 about what he's doing. It's a lot. 979 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,880 It might be unlikely or unwise for someone to do it, but 980 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,840 there's a lot of unwise people. It's unwise for them to. 981 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,120 I'm gonna feel a fire, but they did it anyway, so. 982 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,680 Yeah, you're right. We can't assume just 'cause it's 983 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,920 a bad idea that they didn't do it. 984 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,600 Yeah, Dion took Winterfell like, it wasn't smart, it didn't last, 985 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,520 but it was a pain for Rob. It was a monkey wrench and 986 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,520 everything else is going on so I can see someone potentially 987 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,680 doing it and it being difficult for Aegon to deal with. 988 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,880 OK, yeah, that's fair. And, you know, and Nina uses the 989 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,480 example of Argylla, who even after her father's beaten, her 990 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,200 army's beaten. She's still like, I'm the new 991 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,320 Storm Queen, you know, even though, like, it was hopeless. 992 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:34,760 And they're like, no, you're not. 993 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,280 So you're right though. So that's that's a great 994 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,480 example. Nina brings a good point. 995 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,880 So yeah, so it is possible. It's also possible. 996 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,840 And here's one, Here's one I didn't think of until just now. 997 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,400 Given what we just said about opportunity and ambition, 998 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,480 someone could seize Highgarden. In order to be the one who 999 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,960 surrenders it to Aegon so that the Tyrells can't do that. 1000 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,320 So like, I want to be the one to surrender Highgarden to Aegon. 1001 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,080 And of course, they have very little time to do that. 1002 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,280 That's part of it also. It's like, well, who's who's got 1003 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,240 time for this? Like maybe someone had an army 1004 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:05,480 in the field already, Like Tywin was waiting to see what happened 1005 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,080 at the Roberts or at the Trident, and then he marched 1006 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,040 immediately to King's Landing. There could have been another 1007 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,080 army in the field like that, that Aegon wasn't aware of. 1008 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,040 There wasn't, as far as we know. But it's a it's possible it's 1009 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,600 extra valuable, the pointing out the the intelligence Aegon could 1010 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,040 could have if he scouted out ahead of times and got people in 1011 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,520 the right places and use the Dragons. 1012 00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:27,320 But say the high towers. What if the high towers all 1013 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,320 right we're we're in charge of high guard now. 1014 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,040 We'll see what Aegon says when he gets here, but we're going to 1015 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,480 be in charge. They would have been more 1016 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,240 difficult to negotiate with right than the Tyrells. 1017 00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:39,960 That was an ideal situation when the high Tyrells, yes, took, 1018 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,960 took charge, sort of, and then gave in immediately. 1019 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,880 It would have been a little different with the high towers, 1020 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,320 yes. Because we know what the high 1021 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,040 towers did. We know they had their prophecy. 1022 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,440 We know they surrendered. We're going to talk about that 1023 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,560 later. But does Aegon know that? 1024 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,040 Because it seems it's the peculiarity of that scenario is 1025 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,680 that yes, they had that prophecy, the high Sept, and he 1026 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,920 told Lord Manfred Hightower, But it doesn't seem like they told 1027 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,880 everybody else. It's not like they didn't send a 1028 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,080 letter head to Aegon saying we already surrender. 1029 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,800 No. They waited for him to show up, 1030 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,320 so it was like they were. This was part of why we were 1031 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,040 very sure that this wasn't just a vision, that this was planned, 1032 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,800 because it's so perfect for them and all the little insurance and 1033 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,680 outs are just so engineered, like they didn't announce it 1034 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,000 even though they were so sure of it. 1035 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,640 OK, well, if you're so sure of it, why didn't you say 1036 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:21,960 something? Why didn't you surrender ahead 1037 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:22,960 of him? Why didn't you show up on the 1038 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,360 Field of Fire to help Aegon right, rather than just stay out 1039 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,640 of it entirely? So from we when we covered this 1040 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,080 before, it was from their perspective. 1041 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,840 From Aegon's perspective, he doesn't know what they're 1042 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,320 planning. Yeah, maybe they're just waiting 1043 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:40,080 to see what happens and then pounce on the the weekend winner 1044 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,800 like someone they beat each other up and this is their 1045 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,880 opportunity. They hadn't used their armies. 1046 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,080 Yeah. Maybe their army was already in 1047 00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,440 the field waiting to to to make a move. 1048 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,160 So yeah, I could see that. Yeah. 1049 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,360 Now imagine. So somehow he learned. 1050 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,960 It's also the chaos of learning what happened. 1051 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,520 Like we know all these gardeners were killed, but. 1052 00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,720 Did Aegon learn that immediately? 1053 00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:01,880 I don't know about that. Maybe he did, because a lot of 1054 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,080 Reach Lords bent the knee to him, and they might have known 1055 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,920 this already, but would they really know the chaos of 1056 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,320 everybody fleeing and running in every different direction? 1057 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,880 Would they really know for sure that all the gardeners are dead 1058 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,960 right then? Would they really know that 1059 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,400 there weren't gardener boys and old men still at High Garden? 1060 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,760 They would probably assume that that's the case, even though it 1061 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,880 turned out to not be the case. They probably would have thought 1062 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,280 that, you know, they wouldn't have just assumed. 1063 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,600 Well, yeah, Well. That was probably all of them on 1064 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,160 the battle there. I probably killed them all 1065 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:28,760 right. Yeah. 1066 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,720 He could not have that kind of confidence until a little time 1067 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:35,160 passed. And as we know, one nephew did 1068 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,240 survive Quentin Martel of of of the of House Gardener here. 1069 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,960 He died three days later of his severe burns. 1070 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,880 So think about Quentin and how Barristan and and Massande were 1071 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,360 kind of watching over him and it's really horrible because his 1072 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,800 burns were just. Just the description of them is 1073 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,120 horrifying. The hope placed in this young 1074 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,960 burned man. The prayer vigils would have 1075 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,320 been lit both both sides of it. In other words, people. 1076 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,160 Some people would just be praying like just like put him 1077 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,200 out of his misery. We don't If he's alive, that 1078 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,280 causes all sorts of the war might flare back up again. 1079 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,280 We don't want that Other people will be like, he's our hope. 1080 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,920 He's the one living gardener. We need him to survive so that 1081 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,680 he can propagate the house and continue. 1082 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,880 It'd be a wide variety of opinions and and hope placed 1083 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,160 under this child but or this this young man. 1084 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,880 But either way he died. As for how Aegon handled 1085 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,120 Highgarden when he did get there, yeah, coming back to the 1086 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,440 Tully decision, it's a very similar strategy but even more 1087 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,480 bold in that sense. Cause yeah, the Tully's had 1088 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,160 never been kings neither the Tyrells, but they were Lords and 1089 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,040 they were Lords. River run a substantial 1090 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,680 important castle. The Tyrells do have descent from 1091 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,760 the Gardeners as. Olena says. 1092 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,400 But they don't have land. They didn't have land. 1093 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,080 Still, let's not think of them as lowly. 1094 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,600 Steward can be thrown around as like Steward, right. 1095 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,480 And you, if you've watched Lord of the Rings, you've got that 1096 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,840 same thing, like sit down steward. 1097 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,280 They insult, you know, Dennis Thor for being a steward, But 1098 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,000 that's not because the steward is a low position. 1099 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,200 It's because he was acting like a king. 1100 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,960 The same thing here. The stewards are very powerful. 1101 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,320 I mean, here's a good real life example, Secretary of the Navy. 1102 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,360 Right. In the USA, that's one of the 1103 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,800 highest military positions there is. 1104 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:18,680 The secretary includes the Marines. 1105 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,360 The secondary Navy presides over the Navy, and it's the civilian 1106 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,360 post. But it's one of it's presented, 1107 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,880 it's the presidential cabinet position, it's one of the 1108 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,120 highest positions in all the military. 1109 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,280 But some people misconstrue that because they hear the word 1110 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,600 secretary and they think that's like someone who types and takes 1111 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,800 notes and stuff like that. So Steward should be thought of 1112 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,840 as secretary, that type of secretary here. 1113 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,480 This is someone that runs the finances of the entire reach, 1114 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,520 you know and they have enormous power like it's and knowledge 1115 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,760 they yeah, they would have. They would know all the 1116 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,840 insurance and outs, have connections with all the people. 1117 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,320 They would have awareness of budgets and manpower and on and 1118 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:53,760 on. Yeah. 1119 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,480 Yeah, it's part of the reason they're denigrated is because 1120 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,840 the other nobles see that level of power. 1121 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,520 But want to point to the thing that they don't have which is 1122 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,600 their nobility like you don't have land though you know so 1123 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,040 they want to put themselves above them because even though 1124 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,120 they arguably are more powerful so minor minor correction 1125 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,400 secretary of Navy isn't actually a presidential cabinet position 1126 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,800 it's it's under the Secretary of Defense which is but it is a oh 1127 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,520 OK but still they're in like anyway a four way tie for third 1128 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,200 most third highest ranking after president Secretary of Defense 1129 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,320 then Secretary of Navy secretary Army chairman don't choose the 1130 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,840 staff it's it's not to take away from your point Yeah. 1131 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,000 Way up there, Yeah. Yeah. 1132 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,600 It doesn't change the point of the example. 1133 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:34,600 Yeah, you're right. But a good but a good 1134 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:35,240 correction. Thank you. 1135 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,680 So yeah, so Nina makes the same point. 1136 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,000 She points out, yeah, the the Tyrells are very powerful. 1137 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,400 Don't get lost in the shelf. Don't believe what you hear 1138 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,520 about other nobles looking down on Stewart. 1139 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,640 And in fact Nina gives of another great real world 1140 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,280 example, the Stewarts or Stewarts do different spellings. 1141 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,640 STEU or. EWARTS and the Stuart the the 1142 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,600 common name Stewart those were those were the high stewards of 1143 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,120 Scotland before becoming Kings of Scotland. 1144 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,600 So they even the name Stewart, Stewart, there's a real life 1145 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,160 example of them ascending to King Hood. 1146 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,480 So that's yeah, this is less than that by comparison, even 1147 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,920 though Scotland's a lot smaller than the Reach, so. 1148 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,280 Aegon's choice was a way to demonstrate how serious he was 1149 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,240 about remaking the realm as a single Kingdom. 1150 00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,240 In his vision, Aegon was not joking when he said he would 1151 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,080 reward those who bent the knee and destroy those who resisted 1152 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,280 it. He kept proving that over and 1153 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,560 over. Whether you're the oldest, 1154 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,800 grandest family like the gardeners he'll that doesn't 1155 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,000 stop you from being destroyed. Or if you're a house that's 1156 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,400 never held land like the tyrels, that doesn't mean you can't be 1157 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,320 promoted to one of the highest positions in the realm. 1158 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,520 It's a new world, new world, y'all new big shake up. 1159 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,720 It's like those of you who are fans of The Expanse. 1160 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:55,880 You might be familiar with the term the churn. 1161 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,000 This is the churn. When the big changes happen at 1162 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,120 the top, the most powerful people change the world as we 1163 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,320 know it. Little people like everyone 1164 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,720 else, whether you're in even really powerful people, have 1165 00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:10,840 very little impact. When when world, the world 1166 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,720 changes and you just got to hope you survive it, there's nothing 1167 00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:16,240 you can do. It's the world's about to be 1168 00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,440 different. Best thing we can do is keep on 1169 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,520 keeping on and and hope it. Doesn't ruin us, but we don't 1170 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,280 have any power over it and that's the same. 1171 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,240 That's the way a lot of these rich Lords found themselves, 1172 00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:30,000 like Aegon is making this decision, and they have no 1173 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,720 ability to change his mind. They can argue, they can 1174 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,920 complain, but it is not going to matter. 1175 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,600 Oakhart, Florent, Rowan Peak and Red Wine, those were the five 1176 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,360 houses, apparently the most upset about the Tyrol elevation. 1177 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,520 Recall Oakhart was one of the four commanders of the battle. 1178 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,800 All five of those houses were at the field of fire and the tire 1179 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,480 rolls were not, So that's probably something annoying to 1180 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,800 them as well. Like, we actually fought for the 1181 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,720 Reach, this dude who didn't bent the knee and he gets all the 1182 00:54:56,720 --> 00:54:58,600 rewards and then the high guard and then the hightowers are 1183 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,200 going to get the same. So there's probably a lot of 1184 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,800 bitterness there too. It's like they didn't help and 1185 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:02,880 they're getting all these rewards. 1186 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,720 It's like, so I surprised some bitterness there, some 1187 00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:09,440 bitterness that lingered, Yeah, now here's a here's something 1188 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,240 kind of unfortunate or or missing, We'll say we talked 1189 00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:15,840 about the missing men. Of gardeners? 1190 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,720 Like, why weren't there old men or children? 1191 00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:19,520 It's a little convenient or unusual. 1192 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:21,920 What about the women? Where are all the women? 1193 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,560 There's no, they definitely weren't at the battle. 1194 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,400 So what happened to them? Like we kind of have to assume 1195 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:33,760 some very unsavory things happen, like forcible marriages, 1196 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:39,200 people sent to the silent sisters, maybe some people 1197 00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,480 getting murdered. If there had been a gardener 1198 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,080 Princess around a Tyrell gardener, marriage would have 1199 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:46,960 made a lot of sense just to lock that up. 1200 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,960 On the other hand, maybe Agon didn't want that bloodline 1201 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,040 existing at all. Maybe he wanted to just cancel 1202 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,880 them entirely so that they never rose again and didn't cause any 1203 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,080 problems. He might have thought that was a 1204 00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,200 better way to move forward. Just as good we it's good that 1205 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,640 we have no more gardeners. Let's just to keep it that way 1206 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,880 now, Nina points out. It's especially odd that they're 1207 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,200 missing. If we don't count the Martells, 1208 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,920 they're the only pre conquest royal dynasty which definitely 1209 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,920 saw at least 2 Queens. So they already have shown that 1210 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:19,160 women are more likely to hold power as compared to a lot of 1211 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,800 these other royal houses in Westeros. 1212 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,080 So it's even stranger in that sense. 1213 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,200 So what we have to assume like you are free to look at this as 1214 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,560 just George making a mistake. Of George, just for just 1215 00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:34,560 overriding these women and just ignoring it for some reason. 1216 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,920 There is a lot of economy in the conquest, but I prefer to look 1217 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,640 at it as just we got to come up with an come up with reasons 1218 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,040 that make sense and fit them. Make something that fits. 1219 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,960 So that's where I get to this. The unsavory stuff that these 1220 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:53,000 women were packed off and and quietly sent away dishonorably, 1221 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,520 which is why it wasn't recorded. Like Aegon wanted to look like 1222 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:57,680 he was doing things the right way. 1223 00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,680 He wanted to look. He was rewarding the right 1224 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,080 people and doing these women were kind of innocent. 1225 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:03,640 So if he's punishing, we're not kind of. 1226 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,280 They were innocent. They're completely innocent as 1227 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,840 far as I can tell. I mean, maybe they weren't, but 1228 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,120 as far as we know, we have no reason to suspect otherwise. 1229 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,440 So that doesn't look good, right? 1230 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,720 It's it's not chivalrous necessarily, even though it is 1231 00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:18,400 normal. You can see why it wasn't 1232 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,240 recorded, if that is indeed what happened or if it's the best 1233 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,560 explanation for what happened. I mean, Yandel alludes to 1234 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,000 various houses in the Reach that have. 1235 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,560 Blood ties to House Gardener. There's definitely houses that 1236 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,080 have married into House Gardener and vice versa. 1237 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,440 Something like the Bloodline was definitely not entirely erased. 1238 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,840 It's impossible. It's been 8000 years of 1239 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,520 interbreeding and back and forth. 1240 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:39,840 There's got to be Gardener blood. 1241 00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,080 Does that matter though? No, apparently not. 1242 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:44,720 Not at this point. I can imagine. 1243 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:49,520 In addition to some of the stuff you suggested both like unsavory 1244 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,120 demises that some of the women might have come to and Martin 1245 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,840 maybe not thinking it through. Right. 1246 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,280 He just wanted for this history. The gardeners are gone. 1247 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:01,080 The men were all killed in battle. 1248 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,160 Well, all the men. What about the women cousins? 1249 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,920 Like maybe it's not just him not accounting for this. 1250 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:12,680 It's the historians there were it's a new phase of history. 1251 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:17,080 The gardeners are gone. So I I can see that that could 1252 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,840 easily be part of it, right? That maybe George even knows 1253 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,320 that there should still be some. But that's just that The history 1254 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,320 didn't record that for all these different reasons, aren't as 1255 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,960 entertaining or enjoyable to to read about or don't make sense 1256 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,160 to, who have been written about by the historians, who would 1257 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,000 also be chauvinistic and biased and all these other things. 1258 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,120 One other potential is that they just went into hiding. 1259 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,600 They knew they might have dangerous futures ahead of them. 1260 00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,480 Like, you know what? I'm not a gardener anymore, 1261 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,080 right? Someone might have just chosen 1262 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,480 to be a flower or whatever. Yeah, I'm. 1263 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,320 Going to ask those, Yeah. A flower, Yeah, yeah. 1264 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,240 Another possibility here too is that he just didn't, you know, 1265 00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,000 he wrote this stuff so early on. He wrote the This Field of Fire 1266 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,200 and Burning of Harrenhal, these details in this part of the 1267 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,200 history when this was supposed to be a trilogy he may not have. 1268 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,640 He didn't expect to have to flesh it out because he wasn't 1269 00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,320 expecting to write Fire and Blood. 1270 00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,600 And that doesn't mean he couldn't have made these added 1271 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,520 these details in. But maybe it's just like a 1272 00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,000 matter of, well, he's already settled this. 1273 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,000 He didn't have to. He didn't go back and revisit 1274 00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:16,960 the thought process because he had done it so long ago. 1275 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,440 Yeah, it's possible anyway. There's either with even the 1276 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,160 setting that's aside, there's significant missing pieces 1277 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:24,960 because there's always significant missing pieces. 1278 00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:29,000 There's always, I mean we can never know what's happening in 1279 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,520 all the places and all these times like that would be absurd 1280 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,120 for us to have that level of information. 1281 00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,480 And part of the fun is filling in the blanks. 1282 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,680 You know sometimes it's a bit too blank. 1283 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,640 Like this might be one of those examples. 1284 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,120 It's better when we can fill in the blanks rather than we kind 1285 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,200 of have to that's that's a little that's that's not as 1286 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:51,640 good, but either way it's fun. Ultimately, this is, I mean, the 1287 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:56,080 fun part, being imagining what things that will make it work, 1288 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,680 that make it logical or whatever. 1289 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,280 And this is I this is what I was saying earlier. 1290 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,040 I said I'd come back to an example of real life history 1291 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,640 doing this. Yeah, real life history does 1292 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,840 this all the time. We have countless examples of 1293 01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,760 history, that is. Frustrating, just as frustrating 1294 01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,760 or more frustrating because it's missing stuff that you can do or 1295 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,600 baffled by why the sources don't discuss this or don't elaborate 1296 01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,520 on certain details. They're still captivating, 1297 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,400 inspire, and inspiring, but not as much as this in my opinion, 1298 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,440 but that they were. They're all we have. 1299 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,520 In other words, one of my favorite periods of history, and 1300 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,840 I've said this several times over the course of our 11 or 12 1301 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:39,360 years of doing the show, is that I love the the civil wars after 1302 01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:40,800 the death of Alexander the Great. 1303 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,520 It's always been one of my favorite periods of history, the 1304 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,360 successors, the Diadacoa they're called. 1305 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,840 But those histories, my one of my favorite periods of history 1306 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,960 has the history is very sketchy. The source, the biggest source 1307 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,480 for those things is Diadora Siculus. 1308 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,320 And he has been, he's had a reputation of as a historian 1309 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,560 that's gone really up and down depending on what era your 1310 01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,760 people were reading him in. Like for a while he was thought 1311 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,960 as a bumbler. Now he's thought, OK, actually 1312 01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,520 some of his stuff is pretty good, but now OK, but definitely 1313 01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,400 got some things wrong because there's just like straight up 1314 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,360 contradictions. He contradicts himself several 1315 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,520 times throughout this. I mean, there's 27 history books 1316 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,880 or whatever that he wrote. So, you know, there's bound to 1317 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:17,920 be a few mistakes in there. But a modern history book 1318 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:19,320 wouldn't have these problems like they would. 1319 01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,120 They would have an editor that would look through and catch 1320 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,040 that and be like, OK, well, this, you know, to solve this, 1321 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,760 this is a contradiction. You can, you can present it as a 1322 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,160 contradiction. Say we don't know which of these 1323 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,000 things is true. But again, just like ignore the 1324 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,800 fact that you just contradicted yourself with a point you made 1325 01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,480 that that goes against something you said 20 pages ago that 1326 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,440 George doesn't do. Thankfully, there's not. 1327 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,120 There's very little contradictory information in his 1328 01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:40,400 history books. There is a little bit. 1329 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,160 There's definitely some, especially with things like 1330 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,880 Ashai and some of the really ancient stuff. 1331 01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:52,080 But that stuff you can easily ascribe to the fog of history. 1332 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:54,520 But there's a few other ones. But we don't need to talk about 1333 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,240 those right now. So I'm glad George didn't 1334 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,520 include that real world problem. But as Nina said, there are 1335 01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,560 other things that maybe he also didn't need to include, like the 1336 01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:06,720 omission of these women or the, you know, having Argylla marched 1337 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,320 out in chains naked. That was probably unnecessary. 1338 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,440 And it's a little odd too, that they did that. 1339 01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,440 But we have to handle this in a variety of different ways. 1340 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,200 We can be frustrated. We can be. 1341 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,120 We can use our imagination. We can do both. 1342 01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,320 So this is how we handle it. Let us know how you handle these 1343 01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,800 things if you do, or what this thinks or how this comes across 1344 01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,080 to you. It's an interesting meta 1345 01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,960 discussion within the greater framework, not just of fire and 1346 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,040 blood, but of all of us. On advice and fire, I suppose. 1347 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,440 Or just the world, how we how we handle these things. 1348 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,680 All of history. Let's take a quick break and 1349 01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,640 come back with the second-half, which we'll be dealing with 1350 01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,560 Torin Stark and then the Hightowers. 1351 01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:50,760 Good stuff, probably. Torin Stark is my favorite part 1352 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,440 of this episode, but you your mileage may vary. 1353 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,320 This episode is brought to you in part by HelloFresh. 1354 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,120 Go to hellofresh.com/fifty Westeros and use the code 50 1355 01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,040 Westeros for 50% off plus free shipping. 1356 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,000 That's 55 zero Westeros, not the letters. 1357 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,720 You can see it on screen there. A crazy schedule can make it 1358 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,880 easy to fall into your dinner time. 1359 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,680 Recipe Rut HelloFresh helps keep things dynamic, with over 40 1360 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,320 recipes to choose from every week. 1361 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,720 You can't possibly eat all those in such a short period of time. 1362 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:26,560 You'll always have something new to choose from. 1363 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,760 And that's not 40 for the year, That's just 40. 1364 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,120 At any given time. They're constantly rotating new 1365 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,160 ones in and out, so that's a it's effectively a lot more than 1366 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:35,960 40. There's just 40 available at any 1367 01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:40,080 given time, so that really takes the hassle out of meal time 1368 01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:41,960 planning. You get to a lot of the steps 1369 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,800 are removed, you just have it right there for you. 1370 01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,560 All the portion sizes are just right, and it can also save you 1371 01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:50,000 money, take out fast food, all these things are getting more 1372 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,800 expensive, like regular places. It's regular eating out, so it's 1373 01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,960 just a little more incentive to eat at home. 1374 01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:00,840 But this is sort of a halfway it's like a instead of. 1375 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,520 You don't get the quality of restaurant food, but it's 1376 01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:08,480 cheaper and you get to be at home and you get to prepare it 1377 01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,400 with your loved one or loved ones. 1378 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,800 And yeah, it's just a lot of good stuff that way. 1379 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:17,320 We here in in Roswell, we rent out some of our extra rooms in 1380 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,040 this house that we have to some friends of ours. 1381 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,680 And that has been really fun sharing our HelloFresh meals. 1382 01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,000 We ordered the bigger ones so we could share it around. 1383 01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,160 And one of our friends that lives here is a really good 1384 01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,400 cook. And he was commenting on how 1385 01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,280 he's learned. He just learned a couple of new 1386 01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,720 things just from following these instructions and these 1387 01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,560 directions that he got from HelloFresh, because it wasn't 1388 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,960 stuff he'd cooked before. So just just a couple of things 1389 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,680 that sunk in and stuck with him. And he's a little bit better of 1390 01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,280 a chef now because of what he learned from this process. 1391 01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,240 So that's pretty cool, Very happy with that. 1392 01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,680 And stories like that make me feel good about pitching these 1393 01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:52,160 guys. I don't. 1394 01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,880 Know if anyone watches any cooking shows? 1395 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:55,720 I don't watch any of them religiously, but here and there 1396 01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:57,640 I watch them and every time I'm due, I'm like. 1397 01:04:58,480 --> 01:04:59,240 Next time, Mike. Yeah. 1398 01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,120 Cilantro, huh? Or whatever it is, you know, 1399 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,800 it's it's neat to get new tools and new ideas from whether it's 1400 01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,120 a cooking show or something like that. 1401 01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,280 I wonder if doing it, watching cooking shows, might make you 1402 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,040 appreciate this even more. Getting to try these new things, 1403 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,200 you know? Yeah, probably that's a good 1404 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:14,240 point. You know and you mentioned that 1405 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,280 about about certain cilantro. It's a great example because 1406 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:21,680 that's the number one thing that I just there's so many spices, I 1407 01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,880 don't know what half of them do. You know, someone's like, adds 1408 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:25,840 this. If you see, if you go through 1409 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,200 the process of adding it to something, you can be like, oh, 1410 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,160 it teaches you like what that goes in or at what point. 1411 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,040 Whether you should add it before or after cooking, you know, 1412 01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:35,520 whether it should be cooked or added after. 1413 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,880 Yeah, or you learn the yoga. That's why I don't like it. 1414 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,240 No wonder, Yeah. A lot of, a lot of things. 1415 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,200 My cooking experience, I just have to use way more than what I 1416 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,600 thought, you know, So sometimes seeing a recipe, when it tells 1417 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,040 you how much to use and you're like, that's more than I ever 1418 01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,320 would have used well, that's why I never tasted it before. 1419 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,160 You just got to use more. So yeah. 1420 01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,840 Or maybe just weren't preparing it right. 1421 01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,040 Or yeah, So anyway, yeah, that's that's that's our pitch. 1422 01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,600 Go to hellofresh.com/fifty Westeros and use the code 50 1423 01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,320 Westeros for 50% off plus free shipping. 1424 01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:06,240 That's America's number one meal kit. 1425 01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:10,200 HelloFresh. All right, the king who knelt. 1426 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,920 Let's start off with a quote. It was King Aegon's intent to 1427 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:18,440 continue his March South and enforce the submission of Old 1428 01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,120 Town, The Arbor and Dorn, but whilst at Highgarden, word of a 1429 01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,720 new challenge came to his ears. Horan, Stark King in the North, 1430 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:31,720 had crossed the Neck and entered the Riverlands, leading an army 1431 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,520 of savage Northmen 30,000 strong. 1432 01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,520 Aegon at once started N to meet him. 1433 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,560 Racing ahead of his army on the wings of Valerian, the back, the 1434 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,840 Black Dread. He sent word to his 2 Queens as 1435 01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,360 well. And to all the Lords and Knights 1436 01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,680 who had bent the knee to him after Harrenhal and the Field of 1437 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,080 Fire, Nina writes. What's also notable about this 1438 01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,080 quote is that it suggests urgency on the part of Aegon 1439 01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:57,640 towards the Starks. He actually saw them as a 1440 01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,720 threat, or at least thought that they needed to be handled in a 1441 01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,480 timely manner. Perhaps before things got too 1442 01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,840 out of hand. Like take care of them before 1443 01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:07,480 this gets ugly. Maybe you can. 1444 01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,160 There's still a chance to make them bend the knee before they 1445 01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:11,520 start. I don't know, attacking the 1446 01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,080 Riverlands or something like that. 1447 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:14,160 He's not sure where they're going to go. 1448 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,560 Or they just head straight for King's Landing and he and they 1449 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,840 get there and start, I don't know, wrecking the Aegon for and 1450 01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:22,240 that just looks bad for him, you know. 1451 01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,000 So he needs to beat them to the punch. 1452 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:25,640 So there is urgent. There's several reasons to 1453 01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,360 understand his urgency here, and it may be a little of all the 1454 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,720 above, or several different factors. 1455 01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,760 One thing I think maybe the biggest thing is something that 1456 01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,480 I brought up a few times before, is it they can spread their 1457 01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,200 forces. It's not that they might go to 1458 01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,120 King's Landing, they might go to River Run and King's Landing and 1459 01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,280 the Field of Fire. And if they suddenly Aegon so 1460 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,560 far has been able to choose the battlefields, yes, that's true. 1461 01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:53,200 He's fighting where he wants all his army and all of their army 1462 01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,240 all there at the same. But if if suddenly he had to 1463 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,320 face forces in a bunch of different places, it's much more 1464 01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,720 of a challenge, but with same reason I thought that it would. 1465 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,080 It would be tough for him to actually take Castle Rock. 1466 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:05,960 He could theoretically do it, but he can't do that. 1467 01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,600 And all the other things he needs to do to unite the 1468 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,160 Kingdom, that's a. Good point. 1469 01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,200 He right now can go meet Torrance Dark on a battlefield, 1470 01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:17,920 full force versus full force. If he waits an army spread out 1471 01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,920 and he rallies more troops and he's on three different fronts, 1472 01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:23,720 that gets much tougher. Yeah, you're right. 1473 01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:25,560 Yeah. For all he knows, Torin would 1474 01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,600 have split his army and started and gone after multiple targets 1475 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,960 or tried to pick up allies by, you know, sending them to 1476 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:34,200 different places around. Yeah. 1477 01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:35,720 Yeah. So there's a lot of concerns 1478 01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:37,240 here needed to be done. Right. 1479 01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:40,640 So this is what we said back in the beginning or earlier in past 1480 01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,040 episodes. These these considerations for 1481 01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,359 bending the knee and and for and the timing is very crucial in a 1482 01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:47,880 lot of these cases. It's not just about, Oh yeah, 1483 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,479 I'll send a letter to surrender. No, these kings, they have to be 1484 01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:52,240 very careful when they bend the knee. 1485 01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,880 Why they bend the knee. What their followers believe of, 1486 01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,800 hear and understand about that logic, whether it's true or not, 1487 01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:04,200 like to prevent rumors from spreading about cowardice or 1488 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:09,399 anything else, right? And Doran himself, from his 1489 01:09:09,399 --> 01:09:12,040 perspective, like he's heard these stories. 1490 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:16,160 He's got more information than, say, Argillac, and Heron had 1491 01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,760 about the capability of the Dragons, but he still hasn't 1492 01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,840 seen it in person, at least not at first. 1493 01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,040 Once his army arrives, that's a little different, which we'll 1494 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,319 get to in shortly. But first, from that quote it it 1495 01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:33,640 says he was planning on marching S to enforce the submission of 1496 01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,279 Old Town, the Arbor and Dorne. He never actually had to force 1497 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:39,359 the submission of the Arbor. I think they just showed up and 1498 01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:41,800 bent the knee with the Hightowers. 1499 01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:43,319 It's not really made clear there, but we never hear 1500 01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:45,560 anything more about that. So clearly they capitulated at 1501 01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,160 some point. But Dorne, he was planning on 1502 01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,120 going to Dorne directly himself and and that would not have gone 1503 01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,880 the way he expected as it didn't later either. 1504 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:58,840 But that's a real interesting what if isn't it like an 1505 01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,720 overestimation. He may have been very confident 1506 01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,840 and everyone bending the knee after he taught these lessons 1507 01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,360 but he may have been overconfident and and couple 1508 01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,600 because there were still holdouts as we see that. 1509 01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:10,840 That of course is what we'll be discussing next week. 1510 01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,080 So he may have yeah he may have actually expected Doran to 1511 01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,440 capitulate without a fight which clearly was wrong. 1512 01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:22,200 So here's what actually happened when the the Northern army got 1513 01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:25,200 insight of what they were faced with quote. 1514 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,240 When Torin Stark reached the banks of the Trident. 1515 01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,440 He found a host half again the size of his own, awaiting him 1516 01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:35,480 South of the river. River Lords, Westerman, 1517 01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:40,320 Stormlanders, Men of the Reach, all had come, and above their 1518 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:45,560 camp Valerian, Marraxis and Vagar prowled the sky in ever 1519 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,000 widening circles. Torrent scouts had seen the 1520 01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:53,240 ruins of Harrenhal. Where slow red fires still 1521 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,240 burned beneath the rubble. That's pretty intimidating. 1522 01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,560 You're like, OK, so those Dragons really are that big and 1523 01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,520 that castle really is burned. And those Dragons clearly did. 1524 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,760 It's like going into the kitchen and finding the dog treats 1525 01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,640 spilled over and there's a dog sitting there and you're like, 1526 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,760 well, I know who did that. You see Harrenhal smoking ruins 1527 01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:16,320 Dragons circling over it. Well, 2 + 2 = 4 or three headed. 1528 01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:20,640 No, never mind. And OK, so this is another 1529 01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:21,960 factor there. Like we're already seeing the 1530 01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:23,360 Dragons, what they're capable of. 1531 01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,840 Torin now has heard the stories and seen some of the evidence. 1532 01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,440 He's also facing a a larger army than his. 1533 01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:35,760 Like he there's more men. Forget the Dragons, it's 45,000 1534 01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,880 verse 30,000. Remember when we talked about 1535 01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:39,960 the size of the greech army at the Field of Fire? 1536 01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,000 We pointed out that the one that formed shortly after it was one 1537 01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,880 of the net was maybe the second biggest army field it in, and 1538 01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,880 that's up to that point because this is 45,000 men. 1539 01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,440 The reach had what? What was it, 55,000? 1540 01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:55,560 So this isn't that much smaller, right? 1541 01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,520 So with the Dragons factored in, it's an enormous superiority. 1542 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,720 Plus they're on the other side of the river. 1543 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:07,000 If the if Torin wanted to come to grips to make his have his 1544 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,120 men fight Aegons, they'd have to cross the river, which is 1545 01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,840 terrifyingly dangerous with the with Dragons being right there, 1546 01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,000 especially even without the Dragons, that would have been 1547 01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,640 very difficult, but Aegon still had to make the show of force. 1548 01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,320 Because the Northerners are the Northerners, they believe that 1549 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,360 they're stronger 1:00 to 1:00 than the Southerners. 1550 01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,880 They're they won't be too intimidated by that numerical 1551 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,000 disadvantage. The Dragons are a different 1552 01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,000 factor in a wild card because they've never encountered that 1553 01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,120 before, but I don't think they would have looked at 3030 versus 1554 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,400 45K as something that they couldn't overcome. 1555 01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,800 They might be wrong, but this is this kind of the northern 1556 01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,160 attitude they're more like. They might have been able to 1557 01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,600 overcome it if you take the Dragons out, because they would 1558 01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,840 have been more united, right? This, this 45,000 is more 1559 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,520 hodgepodge, different people who aren't going to coordinate or 1560 01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,400 trust each other, as well as the Stark, the the Northerners. 1561 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:55,560 That's a very good point. You're right. 1562 01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:57,360 These these are these Northerners are way more united 1563 01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:01,040 in purpose and in ideology and in just general loyalty. 1564 01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:03,400 They're all, you know, behind that Stark king where everyone, 1565 01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,000 everyone else has just recently cowed behind Aegon. 1566 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,320 And some of them are probably a little bitter about the loss of 1567 01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,680 gardeners and other things. So, yeah, and they had just 1568 01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,000 fought. Some of them were were still 1569 01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,680 like injured, you know, or tired, like the Northerners were 1570 01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,640 fairly fresh. So Nina also points out that 1571 01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,360 this approach speaks volumes. Turin did not take up a 1572 01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,240 defensive position. He did not reinforce Moat, Kalin 1573 01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,040 and sit and wait for the Dragons to come and fight them on 1574 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:30,800 terrain that was at most advantage to them. 1575 01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:34,800 They marched into the South to confront the man that claimed 1576 01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,360 their land. This was says a lot about both 1577 01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:41,240 their attitude, but if we're looking a little deeper, there 1578 01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,480 might be some, might be a little more to it. 1579 01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,400 Torin might have been clever than he seems here. 1580 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:49,880 And I'm not saying he didn't seem clever. 1581 01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:52,880 I don't really know. He's he's no, he's kind of like 1582 01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:54,480 Aegon. We don't really know his 1583 01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:57,440 personality. In other words. 1584 01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,000 He's exposing his army. He's marching away from any 1585 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,280 potential defenses, the natural benefits of the neck and all 1586 01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:06,600 that. He just shunned that and was 1587 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,200 marched right into the Riverlands, where it's kind of 1588 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,720 more open, where he'd have to cross a river to to fight them 1589 01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,520 rather than them having to cross a river or swamps or what have 1590 01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,320 you. So he's almost showing his neck 1591 01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:18,800 right away. He's almost exposing himself 1592 01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,320 right away, which which to his soldiers, the people following 1593 01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:23,640 him, that looks brave. It looks forthright, like we're 1594 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,920 we're charging right in without, you know, without hesitation, 1595 01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,680 without any sort of fear. But taking up a defensive 1596 01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,560 position. If they had taken up a defensive 1597 01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,520 position, it sort of implies we're ready to fight where this 1598 01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:37,960 actually gives Torin the chance to surrender. 1599 01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:40,880 Even though his men might not realize that because he gets to 1600 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:44,800 witness it before it hits him. Like if they're hunkered down 1601 01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,680 waiting to be hit, that first hit might be devastating because 1602 01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,080 that's what Aegon does. He wants to overwhelm you when 1603 01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,240 he when if he's coming for you, he's coming for you hard. 1604 01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:56,480 He's not going to just test the waters 1 strafing run, See what 1605 01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:58,440 you do. It's all or nothing. 1606 01:14:58,440 --> 01:15:01,320 And Torin knows that by now, or at least probably does. 1607 01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,000 So he's like he wants to have a little flexibility in his 1608 01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,400 strategy even. That's why we make so much out 1609 01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:08,760 of his giving up his defense here. 1610 01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:10,400 He's like, he marched right there. 1611 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:12,400 And I think part of that is because he wanted to see exactly 1612 01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:13,880 what he was facing. He wanted to put truth to the 1613 01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:16,600 rumors, because if the rumors were true, I don't know if he 1614 01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:18,600 wants to do it. But if they're not OK, then 1615 01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:20,560 maybe he can fight. I don't even think that he 1616 01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:21,760 wanted to see what they're facing. 1617 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,240 I think he wanted to see. He wanted all of the soldiers 1618 01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,040 and see what they're facing. If they take up defensive 1619 01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:29,800 positions, a couple problems with that. 1620 01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,960 The Dragons just fly right over MO Kalin. 1621 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,960 They don't stop and fight MO Kalin, just fly right. 1622 01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,360 They just burn whatever castle they pick and choose and all the 1623 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,440 forces can't run back and forth between castles, right? 1624 01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,400 If you get all the forces together and go South, he can't 1625 01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,600 say this, of course. But everyone gets to see what 1626 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:51,720 the threat really is. He probably did. 1627 01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,600 He probably is experienced and wise enough to trust the 1628 01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,560 information he's getting, realize it's over, not 1629 01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,720 overcomable, but also that he can't just immediately give up. 1630 01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:05,200 So get everyone together so they can all see for themselves, 1631 01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,040 right? And they all go down. 1632 01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:09,480 And then when he surrenders, everyone is there for surrender. 1633 01:16:09,480 --> 01:16:12,440 Aren't people leftover from behind who will dissent or run 1634 01:16:12,440 --> 01:16:16,120 some ambush, raid or? So they all get the same 1635 01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,360 motivation by seeing the threat. They're all in the same place to 1636 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,000 know, OK, this is really it. And they all get to have that, 1637 01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,200 like, gut churning, like, holy crap, that thing is huge and it 1638 01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:28,320 breathes. No, Wow. 1639 01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,560 Yeah, like without that. Like feeling it, seeing, like 1640 01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,000 experiencing it. Personally, you're right. 1641 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,160 I think that I think that's a very strong point. 1642 01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:38,200 And it also doesn't work to stay back in defensive, because the 1643 01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:41,040 Dragons can fly around in a bunch of different targets and, 1644 01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,600 you know, depend on how things go, yeah. 1645 01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,600 As I said before, they're probably better off across that 1646 01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,640 river with a full force that can be split up to different places 1647 01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:53,600 that that if we maybe get people to join them, right? 1648 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:57,120 If we're going to have some chance of stopping Aegon, it's 1649 01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:00,880 not going to be huddling in our castles wondering which one gets 1650 01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:02,880 burned down. It's going to be going out and 1651 01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,600 attacking a bunch of different places, and too much the Aegon 1652 01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:07,480 can stop. So we could at least. 1653 01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:09,920 We'll lose some battles, we'll lose some men, but we'll win 1654 01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,960 some battles and at least have some negotiating power. 1655 01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,080 And same thing with this show of force. 1656 01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:18,840 All right, Aegon, you can beat us, but we're going to put up 1657 01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,600 this fight and it's going to be it's going to look really bad. 1658 01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,200 You got to burn a lot of people to death. 1659 01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,120 You're going to have less soldiers and support back home 1660 01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:28,280 in the north once you take over, right? 1661 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,880 Like, what's your goal here? They probably have better 1662 01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,960 position, better bargaining power by showing up with this 1663 01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,360 full force, too. Even if they theoretically know 1664 01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,880 they're going to lose, it's still a better position to 1665 01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:39,200 bargain from. Yeah, yeah, I agree. 1666 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:40,720 And and it's. I think from a bunch of 1667 01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:42,480 different angles, I think Torn did the right thing. 1668 01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:43,960 Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. 1669 01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,000 And it it it seems so simple. But really when we get into this 1670 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,160 detail, there's a lot of considerations. 1671 01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:51,800 It's almost a tightrope walk. And I do think that he he seems 1672 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,640 to have handled it well. And I I agree with pretty much 1673 01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,360 everything you just said there. And another thing about the 1674 01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,640 defense position, like you said, like no one's going to join him. 1675 01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,400 If he's hunkering up in the neck, he's not going to get more 1676 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,000 allies, which he probably knows he needs. 1677 01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,040 And that's this comes back to our point about a lot of Aegon's 1678 01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:09,480 allies just joined him. They may be they're not like 1679 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,840 super tied to him. He didn't. 1680 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:13,880 Aren't marriage alliances in place? 1681 01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,480 Right. He didn't marry anybody outside 1682 01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:17,320 of his family. Right. 1683 01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:18,720 So there's there's all this still there. 1684 01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:22,080 So yeah, he might be Tori might be thinking, yeah, that he just 1685 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:23,800 appointed the Tyrells in charge of Highgard. 1686 01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:25,800 I bet I could get some Richmond to join me. 1687 01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:27,400 They don't like. They're not going to like that. 1688 01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,680 They don't want to serve under the Tyrells they've got they've 1689 01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:31,920 got reason to flip sides. But of course that didn't work 1690 01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,800 out. But those are things that he he 1691 01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,120 could have been thinking about strategies in mind that would 1692 01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:40,640 have maybe been valid and as well as, yeah, you can't just 1693 01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:43,880 lay down without a fight. I mean, he did, but he didn't 1694 01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:48,280 want to just make that his first choice or make that his only 1695 01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:50,240 option. Because yeah, it looks, it does 1696 01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,160 look bad and he has to. And if he's going to do it, he 1697 01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:53,640 has to make sure it doesn't look cowardly. 1698 01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,720 And the best way to do that is to make sure everyone sees the 1699 01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,520 threat as he does up close and personal. 1700 01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,880 Yeah. And if he just announces, yeah, 1701 01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:05,280 we're going to March down there and surrender. 1702 01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:07,640 Like, he loses so much authority, he's going to lose 1703 01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:08,840 more authority. Not just that. 1704 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:10,800 But then when King Aegon appoints him ward to the north, 1705 01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,160 everyone's going to remember that he's this guy that gave up 1706 01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:15,040 so quickly. Like, he just immediately 1707 01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,120 kowtowed to this threat. And, like, is that really the 1708 01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:20,520 guy you want in charge? Even from his perspective, he's 1709 01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,120 like, well, I still want to be in charge. 1710 01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,760 If I'm going to lose my crown. I still want to be Lord of 1711 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:26,120 Winterfell. I don't want to, like, have a 1712 01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:29,040 whole Tyrell or Tully situation happened to me. 1713 01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,320 I don't want him to just replace me with the Boltons or the 1714 01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,200 Manderleys. Yeah, right. 1715 01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,520 These are other thoughts that would go through his head, but 1716 01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,840 it goes even farther than that. Like you said, 30,000 men. 1717 01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,360 That's way more than Rob brought. 1718 01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:45,840 So don't forget, Rob also had some Riverlands men join him. 1719 01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,400 Not a lot because they were in big trouble at that point. 1720 01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:52,520 But the North is also more populous now than it was then, 1721 01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,040 most likely. To be fair, Rob was in a hurry. 1722 01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,880 He didn't get all the mountain Clans and some other folks. 1723 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,360 But Tauren. Yeah, this is part of what 1724 01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:04,240 you're saying. I think This is why he gathered 1725 01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:07,000 as many men as possible. So as many men as possible would 1726 01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,400 be witness to what they're do, What happened in the South, 1727 01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:18,040 whether it be a glorious victory or a tough decision to bend the 1728 01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,000 knee, You know, at least they would see what they're faced 1729 01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,400 with. Yeah, I totally agree. 1730 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:23,800 The witnesses, it's really important, I. 1731 01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,760 Didn't even think of it till just now, but I I wonder if on 1732 01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,480 some level, Aegon pieced it together too. 1733 01:20:29,480 --> 01:20:31,960 Aegon probably knows what's Torn's going through. 1734 01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,560 He's like, I need to get everywhere with my dragon right 1735 01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:38,760 away so his soldiers see it. I I need him to see the threat 1736 01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,480 that he wants his people to see, like, and this giant army and 1737 01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:44,840 this burned castle, like they get to see it's a triple threat, 1738 01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:47,360 right? All that stuff, plus the other 1739 01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,120 rumors. What Heron didn't have, what our 1740 01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:52,680 our galact didn't have, what the Lords of the Crown Lands didn't 1741 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,400 have, is what had happened to those people. 1742 01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:59,000 Torin now sees what happened to the field of fire, what happened 1743 01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:00,960 to what happened to Heron, what happened to the Lord of the 1744 01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:02,240 Crown Lands, what happened to our galacts. 1745 01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,560 There's a lot more evidence, a lot more people have gone up 1746 01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,080 against the Dragons and lost, or one dragon and lost. 1747 01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,000 Here we are with three of them again, with a bigger army than 1748 01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:13,480 any of these others had faced. So he's really got to be 1749 01:21:13,480 --> 01:21:15,440 confident to take this to to violence. 1750 01:21:15,440 --> 01:21:19,840 And clearly he wasn't. So he saw Heron Hall with his 1751 01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:23,480 own eyes and the Dragons and the army, and so did all his other 1752 01:21:23,480 --> 01:21:24,080 Lords. So. 1753 01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:27,040 But there's more than that here. Here's another quote to to carry 1754 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:28,680 us forward. The King of the North had heard 1755 01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:30,840 many accounts of the field of fire as well. 1756 01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,120 He knew that the same fate might await him if he tried to force a 1757 01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:36,960 crossing of the river. Some of his Lords bannermen 1758 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,720 urged him to attack all the same, insisting that Northern 1759 01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:43,000 valor would carry the day. Others urged him to fall back to 1760 01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:46,040 Moe Kalin and make his stand there on northern soil, the 1761 01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:48,680 King's bastard brother, Brandon Snow offered to cross the 1762 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,680 Trident alone, undercover of darkness, to slay the Dragons 1763 01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,000 whilst they slept. That is wild and really cool, 1764 01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:56,800 right? From Torrance POV too. 1765 01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:58,560 Not only did you mention that he's aware now of all these 1766 01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:00,360 conquests that just happened, but several of them happened in 1767 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,440 such a short span of time that Harrenhal is still smoldering. 1768 01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:06,160 So it's like, wow, not only did he do that, he did it fast. 1769 01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,920 And here's a huge question mark though Torin's sons, we don't 1770 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,040 know how many he had. We know he had more than one. 1771 01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,040 We don't hear of them being present there. 1772 01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:18,560 We do hear about them complaining about the result. 1773 01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:21,600 We hear about them bending, being upset about the bending of 1774 01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,520 the knee and just being a problem going forward. 1775 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,480 It's a little odd that we don't hear about them being there, but 1776 01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:30,680 if his goal was to make sure as many people saw it as possible, 1777 01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,280 you would have thought he'd have brought one or two of them with. 1778 01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,080 On the other hand, he might not have wanted to bring his oldest 1779 01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,360 son if his oldest son was kind of young. 1780 01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:44,480 Sometimes we see the tradition of at least leaving the Stark. 1781 01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:46,720 There must be a Stark and Winterfell set aside any maybe 1782 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,360 supernatural angle to that. It just makes sense to keep your 1783 01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,440 air safe or to keep at least one member of your bloodline out of 1784 01:22:54,440 --> 01:22:55,680 the fighting. Especially when it's something 1785 01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,720 like Dragons, which it's pretty hard to keep people out of 1786 01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:02,520 harm's way when that with that element in in at present rather. 1787 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,880 Maybe he'd heard of what happened to the gardener. 1788 01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,440 Exactly. The whole gardener lines where 1789 01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:08,800 he's like, well, let's make sure that doesn't happen. 1790 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:10,920 Leave one Stark at home like you left. 1791 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:14,040 I mean, Rob was left back when Ned went S you know this, it's 1792 01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:16,280 common. Benjen was left at Winterfell 1793 01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:18,360 when Ned went S you know, all these other things. 1794 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:24,360 So similar examples. And not just in the north, but 1795 01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:26,440 this is the north we're talking about. 1796 01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:28,200 So these examples are probably the best to use. 1797 01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,600 So if he brings them, they get to also witness it and they also 1798 01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:33,800 get to see what it is they're surrendering to. 1799 01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:35,600 But they may not have been old enough. 1800 01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:37,440 Only one of them may have been old enough. 1801 01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,160 Nina points out that it's odd that Brandon Snow and these 1802 01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:45,000 maesters did the negotiating if torn sons or one of them was old 1803 01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:48,040 enough to be in this place. This kind of tells me they 1804 01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:50,760 weren't because I I agree with her that if they were old 1805 01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:55,560 enough, they would be likely. Representatives of the king, the 1806 01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:58,760 the Princess are very often take that role up as part of their 1807 01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:02,040 training, part of the the way these these noble situations are 1808 01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:05,360 handled and. But they don't. 1809 01:24:05,480 --> 01:24:07,560 Brandon Snow and the Maesters are the ones passing these 1810 01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:08,880 messages back and forth, apparently. 1811 01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,480 And the lack of the son's involvement may be part of why 1812 01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:15,600 they're upset later, but it may. Maybe it's more likely to just 1813 01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,280 assume they were too young, or if there was an older one, he 1814 01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:19,800 wasn't there 'cause he was back at Winterfell. 1815 01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:24,800 To to the point we made earlier about Torrent wants all the 1816 01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,520 soldiers to see. Not just that, he wants to see. 1817 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,120 I think he was ready. I think he had seen or heard 1818 01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,440 enough. But he knew that all the people 1819 01:24:32,440 --> 01:24:34,040 would need to see it with their own eyes. 1820 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:36,840 His sons didn't see it with their own eyes. 1821 01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:40,480 And they're upset, right? Yeah, I think all the other 1822 01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:43,440 Lords went, saw the dragon, saw the field of fire, saw Heron 1823 01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,040 Hall, went back home being like, OK, good thing we bent the knee. 1824 01:24:46,440 --> 01:24:49,160 But anyone that didn't see is like, oh, that torn Stark, he's 1825 01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:51,480 the one that knelts. You know they they're they don't 1826 01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:53,000 realize. The other option is they would 1827 01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:54,520 be dead. Yeah, yeah. 1828 01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:56,960 And we will be talking about this more, 'cause this is a 1829 01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:00,160 thing we've talked about the Starks under the Dragons, We had 1830 01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,920 episodes on that. But some of this is we've added 1831 01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,840 a few new details that we're going to, we're going to want to 1832 01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,400 mention as we go through the years here in Fire and Blood. 1833 01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,240 Now what about this Brandon Snow business? 1834 01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:16,640 Not about him being the envoy, but about the assassination of 1835 01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:18,920 the Dragons? Several takes here. 1836 01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:23,000 Was Brandon simply another overconfident man, not truly 1837 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,920 grasping what he was up against? Maybe not. 1838 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,440 Maybe that's possible, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion 1839 01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:30,400 automatically. I would simply consider that as 1840 01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:33,360 one possibility and it and it may only be part of the picture. 1841 01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,240 What means did he intend? How was he going to assassinate 1842 01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:37,560 them? Well, we really only have one 1843 01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:38,200 guess. There. 1844 01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:42,240 Was he the figure in brands Wearwood Vision making wearwood 1845 01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:43,640 arrows? At first when the Dance of 1846 01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:44,960 Dragons came out, a lot of people thought that was 1847 01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,040 Bloodraven. Enough time has passed, enough 1848 01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:49,320 analysis has been done. Doesn't really make sense that 1849 01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:50,920 it was Bloodraven. Why was Bloodraven making 1850 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,320 Wearwood arrows at Winterfell? When was he ever even at 1851 01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:56,000 Winterfell and and the timeline, the Order of the Visions doesn't 1852 01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:59,160 necessarily support that either. It does support this. 1853 01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,160 It does support someone making wearwood arrows. 1854 01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:06,120 The time of that vision in in relative position to the others 1855 01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:08,040 does support the possibility that this is it. 1856 01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:10,040 Nina agrees. Nina thinks it is him. 1857 01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:13,000 He's the one there, and it wouldn't have been the worst 1858 01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:16,280 plane in the world. Tyrion himself notes that the 1859 01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:18,800 eyes are the most vulnerable part of a dragon. 1860 01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:20,320 Their eyes and the brain behind them. 1861 01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:23,080 That's how Meraxis was killed. There's a few other examples. 1862 01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:28,320 And yeah, if he can sneak into a Targaryen camp, get a clean 1863 01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:30,560 shot, which shouldn't be hard if the Dragon's asleep, You know, 1864 01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,280 shoot a wearwood arrow into their eyeball might. 1865 01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:34,960 Yeah, that might kill it. It might work. 1866 01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,560 I don't know how you get all three that way, but even if you 1867 01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:40,160 only kill one, that's pretty substantial. 1868 01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:44,080 And it would send a big message to the world that the Dragons 1869 01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:45,840 can be killed, even if they only kill one of them. 1870 01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:49,480 All of a sudden it's like, oh, actually, we thought these 1871 01:26:49,480 --> 01:26:50,680 things were unbeatable, basically. 1872 01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,000 But someone proved otherwise. That would change a lot. 1873 01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:58,600 It would it would affect the picture continent wide so but 1874 01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:01,800 but apparently torn was like was he was not talked into this. 1875 01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:04,200 He was not moved by this possibility. 1876 01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,040 It assumes a lot, too. Like say you sneak into the 1877 01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:11,160 Targaryen camp and get captured and held hostage, and now Aegon 1878 01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:15,640 is mad that the King's brother snuck into my like it gets a lot 1879 01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:17,640 worse, right? Or what if you sneak into the 1880 01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:20,560 camp and you don't get caught, but the Dragon's not asleep or 1881 01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:22,000 not there? Or you know what I mean? 1882 01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:25,080 Like you can't put your stake in this point. 1883 01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,440 Yeah, 20 good men will not cut it here. 1884 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,880 Or 20 good where What errors? So yeah, it's really interesting 1885 01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:34,680 to think if there's maybe a vision, like if there's some 1886 01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:35,880 some magic involved here as well. 1887 01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:40,000 Maybe there's a supernatural angle to this, a dream or some 1888 01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:41,600 vision. Maybe someone saw the Dragon's 1889 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,680 dead in a in a vision or a green dream, but they're actually 1890 01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:47,680 seeing something farther in the future. 1891 01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:51,280 Or I'm making my way through Clash of Kings right now. 1892 01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:56,320 I'm doing a reread and I'm right at where Bran is arguing with 1893 01:27:56,320 --> 01:28:00,520 the green dreams and Mira is too and JoJo is just like Nah, y'all 1894 01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:03,720 green dreams happen. Like you can't get away from it. 1895 01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,440 But if we can interpret them wrong, that's the one out. 1896 01:28:06,440 --> 01:28:08,520 Is that yes, it's because I see this happening. 1897 01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:09,800 Doesn't mean I've interpreted it correctly. 1898 01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:12,920 It's going to happen, but maybe not in the ways that it appears 1899 01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,200 to me. So this is a possibility for 1900 01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:17,280 this example as well. There could be a green dreamer 1901 01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:21,840 in the mix or maybe Brandon Snow himself or who knows, but it's 1902 01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:22,920 possible. So it's poison. 1903 01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,160 But that's unlikely. That's not really a northern 1904 01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:30,400 means of neither is assassination. 1905 01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:32,520 But this isn't necessarily assassination. 1906 01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:34,840 Let's talk about that more in a second here now. 1907 01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:37,560 So the reason I think it's not as insane as some of the others 1908 01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:39,240 is he's not. He's not like he's acting like 1909 01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:41,600 he's going to face them an open battle like like a lot of these 1910 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:44,600 other kings did. He's got a plan to it's a 1911 01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,600 subterfuge but it's intrigue. So it's not you can't judge it 1912 01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:48,560 quite the same. It's. 1913 01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:52,320 I wouldn't call it insane like facing the dragon headlong is, 1914 01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:55,840 but that doesn't mean he wasn't underestimating the Dragons. 1915 01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,600 As as you said Sean, that doesn't mean it was a good plan. 1916 01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,720 It just isn't. Maybe isn't crazy. 1917 01:29:01,480 --> 01:29:04,000 You said it's not the worst plan in the world, but you need more. 1918 01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:07,000 That's a low bar. The bar's got to be higher than 1919 01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:08,200 not. The worst plan in the world. 1920 01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:12,160 It needs to have a chance of success, not just oh, it's the 1921 01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:13,800 second worst plan. In the world. 1922 01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:19,120 Yeah, even a halfway point plan between the worst and the best. 1923 01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:21,560 Still, I don't know. That's like, even better than 1924 01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:24,520 that, man, that's an average plan at best. 1925 01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:27,280 Yeah. So let's have the next quote 1926 01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:30,560 here right now. All through the night, messages 1927 01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:34,200 went back and forth. The next morning, Torin Stark 1928 01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:38,120 himself crossed the Trident. Thereupon the South Bank of the 1929 01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:42,120 Trident he knelt, laid the ancient crown of the Kings of 1930 01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:45,760 Winter at Aegon's feet and swore to be his man. 1931 01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:50,440 He rose as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, a king 1932 01:29:50,440 --> 01:29:55,680 no more From that day To this day, Torin Stark is remembered 1933 01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,960 as the King who knelt, but no Northman left his burned bones 1934 01:29:59,960 --> 01:30:02,880 beside the Trident. And the swords Aegon collected 1935 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:07,560 from Lord Stark and his vassals were not twisted nor melted, nor 1936 01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:11,920 bent. Yep, they were unbent swords, 1937 01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:16,000 but their knees were bent. I do wonder if these letters 1938 01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,400 back and forth, what was being said, what sort of information 1939 01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:21,640 was passed back and forth? Given the intermediaries, it's a 1940 01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,360 little less likely to me that dreams were discussed, but that 1941 01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:26,240 doesn't mean they weren't discussed in purpose or in 1942 01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:29,480 person. Once he did cross, But at that 1943 01:30:29,480 --> 01:30:30,960 point he'd already decided to kneel. 1944 01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:36,240 So yes, that's But maybe Brandon Snow was willing to discuss his 1945 01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:37,840 brother's dream. Maybe the maesters were excluded 1946 01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,080 from that. Doesn't mean the discussions 1947 01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:40,600 weren't had. It just would have been very 1948 01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:44,640 they would have had to be very diplomatic about when they spoke 1949 01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:47,160 about it, and very cautious about who they said it in front 1950 01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:49,480 of. So the possibility absolutely 1951 01:30:49,480 --> 01:30:52,240 exists, but it's it's hard to it's obviously hard to suss out 1952 01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:53,680 any specifics. Here, the fact that they went 1953 01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:57,360 back and forth a lot adds to part of my reasoning as to why. 1954 01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,440 Horns. Start bringing this whole army 1955 01:31:00,440 --> 01:31:02,240 forward. Gives them more pardoning power. 1956 01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:04,880 They're bargaining. That's what's happening here. 1957 01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:09,920 They're like, look, we want XYZ Aegon's like, no, they're like, 1958 01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:11,200 all right, we'll we'll go to war. 1959 01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:14,240 We're like, all right, we'll we'll go to war and we'll beat 1960 01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,680 you like you might beat us, but you're going to have to split 1961 01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:18,960 your Dragons up and fight us in three different places. 1962 01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:22,680 You're going to look bad to the rest of the North when you do 1963 01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:24,480 conquer me, because they're all the. 1964 01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:29,000 Orphans and wives at home whose fathers you just killed are not 1965 01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,600 going to follow you. You're you're I. 1966 01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:33,400 This is what I think with the back and forth. 1967 01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:36,400 More chance for bad blood. All the if thens if we do this 1968 01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:41,080 battle or not and what I want is Keith Winterfell you know keep 1969 01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:43,440 keep my. Honor, OK. 1970 01:31:43,480 --> 01:31:46,080 You know, etcetera, etcetera. What's it worth to you to avoid 1971 01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:47,560 that hassle? He's not going to phrase it like 1972 01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:49,920 that, because that sounds like it's a it's a he's looking for a 1973 01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:51,520 bribe. But basically that's the the 1974 01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:54,440 diplomacy, the the, the clever language that's been used by 1975 01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:55,880 people who are good at this sort of thing. 1976 01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,480 To not make it look like a capitulation, to make it look 1977 01:31:58,480 --> 01:32:04,160 like A to to keep the bargaining under subtle while the important 1978 01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:07,400 points are covered as maintaining honor, maintaining 1979 01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:11,040 certain other things. Yeah, and another consideration 1980 01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:12,440 here. OK, so Brandon's willing to 1981 01:32:12,440 --> 01:32:15,400 assassinate the Dragons. Was he willing to assassinate 1982 01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:19,040 Aegon himself? I'm guessing no, but it's 1983 01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:20,640 absolutely a worthy consideration. 1984 01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:22,840 I think it's just a little outside of their morals, their 1985 01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,480 their codes of honor. But there wasn't a Kingsguard 1986 01:32:25,480 --> 01:32:28,080 yet, so if he did want to do it, it would have been a little 1987 01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,520 easier, or maybe a lot easier than before. 1988 01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:31,560 Aegon. Maybe it was still a little. 1989 01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:33,360 Maybe he was overconfident. But then you did point that out 1990 01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:35,520 to him later. Like bro, you're overconfident 1991 01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,720 about your own personal safety. And then she went about proving 1992 01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,920 it by cutting his face, but so she really, apparently really 1993 01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,040 needed to make a point there. The point of her sword as. 1994 01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,000 It turns out, but it's a little outside of their code to, you 1995 01:32:48,480 --> 01:32:50,040 know, assassinate someone if you will. 1996 01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:51,840 But it's also outside their code to kneel. 1997 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:56,440 So I I can see that hey, we we have this code, but it wasn't 1998 01:32:56,440 --> 01:32:58,880 accounted for Dragon. So maybe we got to reevaluate 1999 01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,320 our code. I'm not sure I fully agree with 2000 01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:02,600 that. I think kneeling is within the 2001 01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:05,240 is acceptable. Like, I'm not sure like it's you 2002 01:33:05,240 --> 01:33:08,360 don't do it lightly, but I don't know that assassination is ever 2003 01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:09,640 acceptable. You know what I mean? 2004 01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:12,080 And by their value system. But that's a Gray area. 2005 01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:14,160 I see what you're saying. Well, I don't fully disagree, 2006 01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:15,680 but I'm not sure about that. We'll say. 2007 01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,840 I should also clarify, it might be outside of their value code, 2008 01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,560 but maybe not one person, and that might also be. 2009 01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:24,960 I think the point is made in the document here that that might be 2010 01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,800 part of why he's sent Brendan. And not some other person. 2011 01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:30,760 Because he did trust that he would not assassinate him like 2012 01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:32,760 someone else might do something crazy in there. 2013 01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:36,240 And also he didn't. Maybe that's part of why he 2014 01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:38,600 didn't send his own son, because maybe his maybe his son was a 2015 01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:40,720 little less capable or he's a little doesn't want him being 2016 01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:43,800 like seized, whereas like if he loses his bastard brother, it's 2017 01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,800 not a not as big a deal. Now this is where it gets really 2018 01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:49,400 great too, because sabotage is not ignoble, that's there's 2019 01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:51,760 nothing wrong with sabotage. You're allowed to do that that 2020 01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:53,800 that's a that's fine according to the rules of war. 2021 01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:56,920 But with assassination, like look at Stannis and Renly. 2022 01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:00,640 Stannis just just will not admit that he did that. 2023 01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:03,880 You know, he he doesn't. It's an uncomfortable subject 2024 01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:06,440 for him and he's like kind of in denial about what really 2025 01:34:06,440 --> 01:34:08,520 happened there. He's like I when I woke up my 2026 01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,480 hands were clean. You know, like were they were 2027 01:34:11,480 --> 01:34:16,640 they And because like, but if it was acceptable, I think he would 2028 01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:18,640 have just said it like he's like, no, that was he's my 2029 01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:21,000 brother's a traitor. And which he did say other times 2030 01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,120 like my brother deserves death because he's a traitor, you 2031 01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:24,280 know. But if he bends the knee I'll 2032 01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:27,480 forgive him. So he's just not going to admit 2033 01:34:27,480 --> 01:34:29,280 that he's a kinslayer. He's not going to admit that he 2034 01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:31,720 engaged in something that's dishonorable because it's it's 2035 01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:34,280 it's doesn't look good and and he doesn't want to think that he 2036 01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:36,560 did it, which is very kind of the human aspect here. 2037 01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:39,480 And he's able to deny it. Like how many people will 2038 01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:41,840 believe this story? So he, you know, if he wasn't 2039 01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:47,320 able to deny it, he might have to face it differently or or own 2040 01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:49,960 up to it differently. Yeah, technically his hands were 2041 01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:51,800 clean. Metaphorically, no way, you 2042 01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:54,000 know. But technically, you know, 2043 01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:57,400 physically speaking, yeah. So like here's another example, 2044 01:34:57,400 --> 01:35:06,120 like in the North, Nina brings up the point of John being 2045 01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:08,200 ordered to assassinate Mance Raider. 2046 01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:13,320 By the other, like by Alistair Thorne and and Janice Slim. 2047 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:17,400 He's like, damn it and this isn't what we do. 2048 01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:19,360 This is really ignoble. He's like he doesn't even, he's 2049 01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:21,880 not even doesn't even mind the part that it'll get him killed. 2050 01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:24,360 He's like, he's like yeah I'm going to die if I do that. 2051 01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:25,520 But that's not the part that bothers him. 2052 01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:29,960 He's like this is really just not OK like this is a diplomacy 2053 01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:31,520 and envoys. You really shouldn't do that 2054 01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:34,040 sort of thing. Like even when Argolac did that 2055 01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:35,840 cutting the hands off an envoy that was a really big deal. 2056 01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:39,720 Like most of Westeros agreed with Aegon and that was Argolac 2057 01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:43,760 was 100% in the wrong there. So yeah. 2058 01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:46,560 And then the quote is John considers it quote foul enough 2059 01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:50,160 to slay a man in his own tent under Truce, let alone the other 2060 01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,920 aspects of this. So another example that I've 2061 01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:56,240 thought of here right before this, right before we went Live 2062 01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:59,040 Today, in fact about an hour before, was when they were 2063 01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:01,720 willing the Westerners and Riverlanders under Jamie. 2064 01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:05,520 So this is Feast for Crows era, when they're willing to feast 2065 01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,960 and dance, rather when they're willing to sneak, attack river, 2066 01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:11,960 run at night to open the gates. But when one of them throws out 2067 01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:15,240 the idea, Oh yeah, and we can smear night soil on some arrows 2068 01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:18,160 and assassinate Blackfish, that's when they're like, no, 2069 01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:21,640 that part they're against. And it starts an ugly argument 2070 01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:25,480 between Fray and Piper, which leads to Jamie thinking, man, 2071 01:36:25,480 --> 01:36:28,320 they would never do this in front of Tywin, you know? 2072 01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,480 Which which leads me to wonder what Tywin would have thought of 2073 01:36:31,480 --> 01:36:33,640 the idea of assassinating Blackfish with night soil. 2074 01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:36,840 He might have been like, OK with it if it was done under wraps, 2075 01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:38,640 but I don't know. I don't know. 2076 01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,040 But either way, it's kind of off. 2077 01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:42,400 Howard would have been OK with it for sure, I think. 2078 01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:43,440 Yeah, maybe. Time's OK. 2079 01:36:43,440 --> 01:36:47,120 Drowning people don't keep drowning women and children who 2080 01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:48,640 aren't at war, You know what I mean? 2081 01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:50,880 Like, yeah, I think he would be OK with it. 2082 01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:53,240 Yeah, probably he. But he, I mean he didn't want to 2083 01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:55,840 his hand his he didn't want to be known that he was part of the 2084 01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:57,080 Red Wedding. You know. 2085 01:36:57,360 --> 01:36:59,480 I think he was fine for people to suspect it but didn't want it 2086 01:36:59,480 --> 01:37:00,720 set Oakland. So yeah it is a little. 2087 01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:02,600 I think you're right. But it's there's still some 2088 01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:04,480 nuance to what he wants people. I think he wants people to 2089 01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:07,960 suspect it rather than that he's known for doing it. 2090 01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:10,160 But maybe, maybe you know. His response would be something 2091 01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:12,360 like, I don't want to hear of this. 2092 01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:13,800 Ah, you could. Yeah. 2093 01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:14,560 Yeah. OK. 2094 01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:16,720 Yeah. OK. 2095 01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,920 That might be. I could see that maybe being his 2096 01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:21,360 way of handling it. That's a good point. 2097 01:37:21,480 --> 01:37:23,440 Now go do it in parentheses, you know? 2098 01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:25,680 Yeah, Nina says. This, this, this all may have 2099 01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:30,040 been a way for Torrent to put himself on more equal footing 2100 01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:31,120 with Aegon. For like you said, for 2101 01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:33,320 negotiations, for for bargaining, for like having 2102 01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:37,440 leverage and things like that. Before he had stepped foot onto 2103 01:37:37,440 --> 01:37:39,920 W Rest for the purpose of invasion, Aegon had tried to use 2104 01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:42,720 his own bachelor brother to make an alliance with Argolac, right? 2105 01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:47,400 He used Oris as a bargaining chip to marry Argola and 2106 01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:49,440 obviously Argolac was extremely unhappy with that. 2107 01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:53,280 That led to the whole hands cut off envoy business and now 2108 01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:56,440 Tauren is using Brandon Snow as a go between as a diplomat, as 2109 01:37:56,440 --> 01:38:02,960 an envoy. And he may be believed that this 2110 01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:07,240 would might insult someone from the reach or from from another 2111 01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:09,760 house being treated or have a bastard treating with them 2112 01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:11,640 because they're so high and mighty in that regard. 2113 01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:13,920 But Aegon had already done this with his own bastard half 2114 01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:16,880 brother. So it was kind of like maybe 2115 01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:21,480 they were hoping to expose him in a hypocrisy or just saying OK 2116 01:38:21,480 --> 01:38:23,880 well he he doesn't see bastardy the same way that the other rest 2117 01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:27,080 of the Seven Kingdoms has for so long because he's from House 2118 01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:28,960 Targaryen. And you know, they've only been 2119 01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,240 here 100 years and they don't look at bastards the same way 2120 01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:34,360 and etcetera. Maybe it's a way to share values 2121 01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:37,160 in, in some form, you know? Yeah. 2122 01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:38,080 Yeah, that's true. That's true. 2123 01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:41,200 Now, did the North have the most to lose or the least? 2124 01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:43,880 I don't know. I suppose it depends on how soon 2125 01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:47,360 the next winter was going to be and how long they needed it to 2126 01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:50,640 last or expected it to last. Like if winter was imminent then 2127 01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:55,480 Torin would have been very wary about sending all these men to 2128 01:38:55,480 --> 01:38:57,840 fight, unless went to the harvest already been brought in, 2129 01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:00,400 then it would be like OK, then we might be very eager, might be 2130 01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:03,240 the opposite where he's like what we too many mouths to feed. 2131 01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:06,320 So dying in battle is actually A+. 2132 01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:09,520 That's a really interesting like fork in the road here and what 2133 01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:11,720 in in trying to figure out what was on their minds. 2134 01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:14,040 Because if the men were needed for the harvest and the North 2135 01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,720 has the most to lose by losing men. 2136 01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:19,640 They're they're not only going to lose people they're going to 2137 01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:22,920 lose the people that whose labor is needed to survive the winter. 2138 01:39:23,160 --> 01:39:25,360 It also matters how long of a winter they were expecting. 2139 01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:27,240 If it was expected to be kind of a shorter winter, they might be 2140 01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:30,560 willing to be more risky. If the if they were on the tails 2141 01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:32,680 of on the heels of a long summer, they'd be expecting a 2142 01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:35,560 long winter. That's a really big part of the 2143 01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,160 consideration that the South wouldn't care as much about. 2144 01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:40,720 It wouldn't matter as much to them if you're willing to die a 2145 01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:43,120 glorious death in defense of your homeland. 2146 01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:46,320 But then the threat is removed, like there's no longer a threat 2147 01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:47,720 to your homeland because your king surrendered. 2148 01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:50,520 Then you shrug and go back home. You might not be happy about 2149 01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:53,440 your king kneeling, but you're no longer all fired up to defend 2150 01:39:53,440 --> 01:39:54,680 your homeland because there's no threat. 2151 01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:58,600 But if you're looking, if you came S because your goal was a 2152 01:39:58,600 --> 01:40:01,480 glorious death in battle, so your family has enough to eat 2153 01:40:01,480 --> 01:40:04,000 come winter, then you are very unsatisfied. 2154 01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:05,160 Here you would. You did not. 2155 01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,960 You intended to die. You wanted to go to Westeros, 2156 01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:11,800 Valhalla with a sword in your hand, dying in battle, not 2157 01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:14,200 starving, not being a burden to your family. 2158 01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:19,560 And unfortunately, we don't know when winter was coming, or how 2159 01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:22,760 far the last winter had been, nor how big of a winter it was 2160 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:27,160 going to be. So all we can do is float these 2161 01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:32,080 ideas and show you. If we had that missing piece, we 2162 01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:35,480 could have a a very strong guess as to what their attitudes might 2163 01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:37,160 have been, at least a large majority of them. 2164 01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:40,880 Now here's a fun quote one that I found during because of my 2165 01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:43,400 recent reread because the field of Fire is not actually 2166 01:40:43,400 --> 01:40:45,520 mentioned here nor is Torren Stark. 2167 01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:48,080 He's but it's very clear who's being spoken of. 2168 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:51,160 It's Renly talking to Catlin quote. 2169 01:40:51,480 --> 01:40:54,320 I mean to be king, my lady, and not of a broken Kingdom. 2170 01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,160 I cannot say it plainer than that, 300 years ago, a Stark 2171 01:40:58,160 --> 01:41:01,480 king knelt to Aegon the dragon when he saw he could not hope to 2172 01:41:01,480 --> 01:41:02,960 prevail. That was wisdom. 2173 01:41:03,480 --> 01:41:07,720 Your son must be wise as well. Yeah, this is Renly saying. 2174 01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:09,760 Look, Rob can call himself a king if he wants, but he still 2175 01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:11,640 has to bend the knee. To me, king is just a title. 2176 01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:14,280 But I need fealty. That's what matters. 2177 01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:16,480 Duty, loyalty that he must give me. 2178 01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:19,600 So he's willing to be flexible on titles, like he doesn't even 2179 01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:21,880 have to give up his crown. He can still call himself king. 2180 01:41:21,880 --> 01:41:24,360 So it's kind of like a it's sort of a diplomatic solution. 2181 01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:25,840 There's like, he doesn't even have to give up his title. 2182 01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:29,720 He just has to acknowledge that it's subordinate to mine, which 2183 01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:31,400 is kind of clever on Renly's partner. 2184 01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:33,720 It's one of those things that makes you think Renly would have 2185 01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:36,360 been pretty good at compromising more so than most kings. 2186 01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:40,240 Maybe not like compared to a regular guy, but alas, that's 2187 01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:43,440 irrelevant. Now in terms of outlook, it's 2188 01:41:43,440 --> 01:41:46,120 interesting and analyzing his character, but yeah, it doesn't 2189 01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:47,720 have anything to do with what's going to happen. 2190 01:41:48,760 --> 01:41:51,040 And we've talked about how Stannis had a lot of parallels 2191 01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:55,280 to Aegon as we've said and this is probably a similar, isn't 2192 01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:57,080 something that Stannis and Renly might have agreed upon. 2193 01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:59,200 Now Stannis would not have agreed on that he can keep his 2194 01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:01,400 crown part, but otherwise he would be like yeah, if he bends 2195 01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:04,040 the knee to me, we're cool. That part he would have a 2196 01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:09,760 similar attitude about. And overall though the kneeling 2197 01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:13,240 of King Toren, it doesn't have quite the ringing out effect. 2198 01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,520 Like it isn't echo through the centuries like the field of fire 2199 01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:18,800 or the burning of Harrenhal does. 2200 01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:20,840 But those were more exciting events. 2201 01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:25,560 But still it's very remembered, very important and has a lot to 2202 01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:28,920 do with the story. Like what's the North going to 2203 01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:29,560 do? Is the North going to 2204 01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:31,680 capitulate? Is John going to bend the knee 2205 01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:34,080 to a greater king? Is he going to submit to Danny 2206 01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:37,160 or someone else or is that even going to happen at all or 2207 01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:39,960 something similar to that? So, and the mysteries associated 2208 01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:42,120 with too, like we just brought up a lot of things about what 2209 01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:44,440 Torn might have been thinking about or might not have the 2210 01:42:44,440 --> 01:42:46,160 same. Some of these same factors we'll 2211 01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:48,720 be applying in the modern story as well. 2212 01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:51,760 Considerations with regards to winter, considerations with 2213 01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:53,520 regard to the others, considerations with regard to 2214 01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:55,520 the Wall, Considerations with regard to the state of 2215 01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:59,000 Winterfell House, Bolton House, Manderley, all these other power 2216 01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:01,080 players in the North. Winter coming, Yeah. 2217 01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:04,240 Or or is has come if you want to be specific, yeah. 2218 01:43:04,280 --> 01:43:08,360 Either way it's a huge factor. And so there, here we have more 2219 01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:10,800 idea of what's happening within in the Song of Ice and Fire, 2220 01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:14,320 unlike in Fire and Blood where there's several, quite a few 2221 01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:16,520 more missing pieces. But here's another example of it 2222 01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:19,720 being remembered in the Song of Ice and Fire in a form other 2223 01:43:20,120 --> 01:43:22,000 than memory. At the end of the dock, a 2224 01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:25,480 flaking shingle swung from an old iron post painted with the 2225 01:43:25,480 --> 01:43:28,280 likeness of a king upon his knees, his hands pressed 2226 01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:31,760 together in a gesture of fealty. Jamie took one look and laughed 2227 01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:33,880 aloud. We could not have found a better 2228 01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:36,520 in. Is this some special place? 2229 01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:39,800 The wench asked. Suspicious, Sir, Cleos answered. 2230 01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,200 This is the end of the kneeling man, my lady. 2231 01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,080 It stands upon the very spot where the Last King in the North 2232 01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:47,440 knelt before Aegon the Conqueror to offer his submission. 2233 01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:49,360 That's him on the sign, I suppose. 2234 01:43:49,480 --> 01:43:52,440 Torin had brought his power S after the fall of the two kings 2235 01:43:52,440 --> 01:43:54,080 on the field of fire, said Jamie. 2236 01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:57,680 But when he saw Aegon's dragon and the size of his host, he 2237 01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:00,840 chose the Path of Wisdom and bent his frozen knees. 2238 01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:04,280 If you recall, this is the inn where the Innkeepers turn out to 2239 01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:06,680 be working with the Brotherhood without Banner to try to set up 2240 01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:10,000 Brienne, Jamie, and Cleos for an ambush, which they smell. 2241 01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:14,280 They sniff that out and they point out that the former owners 2242 01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:16,680 of the inn are dead. The implication implication 2243 01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:20,880 being that they were killed by Tywin's reavers, Gregor or Lorch 2244 01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:24,280 or Hote. And so these these people just 2245 01:44:24,280 --> 01:44:26,720 came along and took over this empty building and are using it 2246 01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:30,760 to facilitate ambushes on people they don't like. 2247 01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:32,840 Which, to be fair, these were Lannisters. 2248 01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:35,960 They were trying to do that too. At least they assumed Brienne 2249 01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:39,320 was one at that point. Now, two chapters later, Arya 2250 01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,400 and her compatriots are LED there by the Brother Without 2251 01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:45,400 Banners, Tom, Angai, and Lem, who have just found them and 2252 01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:47,640 sort of tricked them into becoming their prisoners. 2253 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:51,200 And Ariel sees the end. She says it looks friendly with 2254 01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:53,600 a whitewashed upper story and slate roof. 2255 01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:55,080 That's her like description of it. 2256 01:44:55,240 --> 01:44:58,680 She doesn't realize the kneeling king on the sign is her 2257 01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:00,000 ancestor. That's kind of fun. 2258 01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:03,600 This is several things that that passed by Arya that that deal 2259 01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:05,800 with her, her family, that she doesn't know about, like the the 2260 01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:08,080 Elmar Frey thing, when she's like, I hope your Princess dies. 2261 01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:10,120 No, no, Aria, that's you're talking about yourself. 2262 01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:11,840 Those kind of things. Like a lot of little things like 2263 01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:14,800 that happened with her and she just passes by evidence of her 2264 01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:16,640 own family or or ties to her own family. 2265 01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:19,640 It's fun. The ensuing conversation proves 2266 01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:21,640 that there was indeed an ambush plan like that. 2267 01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:24,720 They have this conversation with Angai and Lem and Tom, and it's 2268 01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:27,880 like, yeah, they were planning on ambushing Brienne and Jamie 2269 01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:30,480 and and Cleos, but they figured that out. 2270 01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:33,720 Arya introduces herself as Squab here. 2271 01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:36,560 You know when she first meets these Brotherhood Without 2272 01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:40,080 Banners people, and then she meets Harwin there, which is 2273 01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:43,560 kind of neat that this happens. At the end of the Kneeling men, 2274 01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:48,160 it's a reunited someone who used to be a Stark, but he bent the 2275 01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:50,160 knee to someone else to a different cause. 2276 01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:52,080 He also bent his knee to a different 'cause. 2277 01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,360 He's no longer a Stark man. And this is where Hot Pie 2278 01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:56,880 decides to stay behind. And this is not to be confused 2279 01:45:56,880 --> 01:46:01,160 with another in that the Brother without Banner controls where 2280 01:46:01,160 --> 01:46:03,920 Gendry is found by Brienne and he mistakes her for or she 2281 01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:06,920 mistakes him for Renly in her fever dream state. 2282 01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:08,920 And Gendry does look a lot like Renly. 2283 01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:12,200 But yeah, this is not the same in SO there's a couple of those, 2284 01:46:12,200 --> 01:46:13,400 so. George could not have written a 2285 01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:18,040 better in, so we don't actually hear anymore at the end of The 2286 01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:20,560 Kneeling Men. I kind of assume we'll find out 2287 01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:22,120 more about it later. It'll come up again at some 2288 01:46:22,120 --> 01:46:24,080 point. Maybe we can assume it's still 2289 01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:26,320 in the hands of the Brotherhood Without Banners, but the bread 2290 01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:28,480 is better there because Hot Pie is taking over that. 2291 01:46:28,480 --> 01:46:34,160 So now Torin Stark is also mentioned when his statue comes 2292 01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:37,720 up, right, because the brand, there's multiple cases of brand 2293 01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:40,560 down in the crypts and talking about the statue, Well, actually 2294 01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:43,400 two very specific cases of him naming statues. 2295 01:46:43,720 --> 01:46:46,080 So Torin Stark and the historical Torin Manderly. 2296 01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:49,680 Torin Karstark rather and Torin Manderly, There's lots of people 2297 01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:54,640 named after Torin. That's telling, right? 2298 01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:57,520 He, his name was not shunned thereafter. 2299 01:46:57,520 --> 01:46:59,200 Wasn't. Oh, this is an embarrassment of 2300 01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:01,000 a king that we all hate because he knelt. 2301 01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:03,400 No, people kept naming their kids after Torin. 2302 01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:06,120 That's very meaningful. There'd be even another Torin 2303 01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:08,280 Stark, right. Creagon's sons, Edrick and his 2304 01:47:08,280 --> 01:47:09,680 granddaughter Serena had a Torin. 2305 01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:14,480 So, I mean, that's only 200 years later or 180 rather than, 2306 01:47:14,480 --> 01:47:16,440 you know, 300 years later or 250 or something. 2307 01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:18,840 So yeah. That's heartening to me because 2308 01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:22,080 I I think of Torin as being a hero, as being a brave, wise 2309 01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:25,320 hero for having knelt. And yeah. 2310 01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:28,160 Like serious I I, I Amen. There's at least. 2311 01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:32,440 Some amount of resentment towards him that I pick up 2312 01:47:32,440 --> 01:47:35,200 through the books, but it seems like overall that's not the 2313 01:47:35,200 --> 01:47:37,040 case. It seems like that was maybe a 2314 01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:39,640 little bit in the wake of when it happened, but now looking 2315 01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:42,480 back, like you said, people are naming their kids after him. 2316 01:47:42,480 --> 01:47:44,600 So yeah, right. So that's that's a pretty big 2317 01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:46,080 deal. And it's also like, yeah, I 2318 01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:49,200 agree with your general point that it it, it does take courage 2319 01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:52,160 to kneel sometimes based on what the alternative because he knew 2320 01:47:52,160 --> 01:47:53,800 he would get push back from his own people. 2321 01:47:54,440 --> 01:47:57,200 You know he knew it wouldn't just be as simple as got out of 2322 01:47:57,200 --> 01:47:58,480 that. Now let's go home and drink you 2323 01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:01,120 know like no, no, the problems continued. 2324 01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:03,080 He he knew he would have more problems and he knew that. 2325 01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:05,240 Yeah. So he was it was a rock and a 2326 01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:07,600 hard place type situation. But it's a rock and hard place 2327 01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:11,280 for him, but for his people, it's just a fiery death. 2328 01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:15,600 You know, like he's taking on the toughness of this decision 2329 01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:18,440 for everyone else's benefit. Yes, the burden is on him and he 2330 01:48:18,440 --> 01:48:22,120 is he's taking on rather than making them take it on. 2331 01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:23,320 It have been pretty easy for him to. 2332 01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,800 Maybe not easy from a mental standpoint, but like from a 2333 01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:29,040 strategic standpoint to just send people to their death and 2334 01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:30,280 just he could stand back and be like. 2335 01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:32,800 Oh no, they had Dragons. I guess we'll surrender now. 2336 01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:35,640 But to do it up front, Yeah, He saved all their lives. 2337 01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:38,120 And just took a hit to his and his families. 2338 01:48:38,120 --> 01:48:43,200 Honor or or convenience of life or whatever, but to save 2339 01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:47,680 countless thousands of wives. So Catlin thinks when robs Crown 2340 01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:50,800 is being made about the kneeling of Torin, and that no one knows 2341 01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:52,920 what happened to Torrance Crown after it was handed over. 2342 01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:56,200 Not only was Torrent the last one to be a Stark king until her 2343 01:48:56,200 --> 01:48:57,360 son, who was the next one, right? 2344 01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:01,360 But the crown made for Rob was supposedly A replica of 2345 01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:06,560 Torrents, A bronze with 9 black iron spikes wrought in the shape 2346 01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,600 of long swords with runes of the first men all over it. 2347 01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:14,720 So it sounds pretty cool. But yeah, that Crown didn't have 2348 01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:17,680 a a good result either. Although it is, we don't know 2349 01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:19,880 where it is. At least we think we know where 2350 01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:21,600 it is. So during the first chapter of A 2351 01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:23,200 Clash of Kings, she's seeing it before. 2352 01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:26,240 It's kind of like Danny's first chapter of The Clash of Kings. 2353 01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:30,080 Her blood riders are gushing over her Dragons, 2354 01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:32,440 understandably. Now here she's looking at the 2355 01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:34,600 last thing that happened in the Game of Thrones, her son being 2356 01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:36,440 named king. And here she goes, thinking 2357 01:49:36,440 --> 01:49:40,760 about this crown, and she's the one that has it now. 2358 01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:43,800 Of course, she's also dead at this point, but she's still 2359 01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:46,240 walking around, unlike him. So she's got his crown. 2360 01:49:46,240 --> 01:49:48,320 That's the last place we saw it. She was looking at it right 2361 01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:51,280 before executing. What's his name, The Fray in the 2362 01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:54,640 epilogue. Yeah, that guy. 2363 01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:58,200 And Lord Torin returning home without the crown is going to 2364 01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,000 bother people. It's like an extra bit of 2365 01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,240 symbolic weight, Like his sons, maybe, if they weren't there. 2366 01:50:02,240 --> 01:50:03,720 Like Dad, you came home without the crown. 2367 01:50:03,960 --> 01:50:06,720 That's terrible, and that's going to be a problem going 2368 01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:08,280 forward. That will give us reason to 2369 01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:11,360 revisit the North. As I've said, however, yeah, 2370 01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:16,760 there's there's also the swords being laid at Aegon's feet. 2371 01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,400 It says that they were laid and they were not burned. 2372 01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:23,960 This kind of says to me that they did the big processional 2373 01:50:24,200 --> 01:50:28,480 where every single Lord, and maybe a lot of others, like 2374 01:50:28,480 --> 01:50:31,520 high-ranking people, had to walk and lay their sword at Aegon's 2375 01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:35,760 feet until they'd all done it because all the swords were 2376 01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:37,440 surrendered. Just think of the logistics of 2377 01:50:37,440 --> 01:50:39,760 that, all these swords being. No, that that that takes a 2378 01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:42,160 while. Like, all right, obviously ice 2379 01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:43,960 wasn't surrendered. Torin didn't surrender his 2380 01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:45,400 Valyrian steel play. That might have been part of the 2381 01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:46,520 negotiation. That might have been one of 2382 01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:48,640 these. Like, yo, I'm not surrendering 2383 01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:50,280 my sword. Let's be clear. 2384 01:50:50,280 --> 01:50:51,480 I will surrender. A sword. 2385 01:50:52,400 --> 01:50:55,080 A nice one, like the one that I don't use in battle because I 2386 01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:57,520 don't use ice in battle anyway. But like, let's be clear. 2387 01:50:58,440 --> 01:51:00,600 I'm not giving up ice. You can have my crown. 2388 01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:03,000 You can have at first, Egan, we're like, no, you got to give 2389 01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:04,080 me that. And he's like, come on, man. 2390 01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:06,720 Like, let's this is, this is too far. 2391 01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:09,040 He goes like, all right, fine. I can see Aegon spinning on that 2392 01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:12,800 pretty quick, actually. He understands the value of 2393 01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:14,800 heirlooms. This one just happens to be a 2394 01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:15,960 sword. You know, like. 2395 01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:17,960 Right. The crown. 2396 01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:20,520 I think you would have stood his ground on the crown. 2397 01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:21,960 Yes, the crown. You got to give up. 2398 01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:23,920 Yeah, I agree with that. That's more symbolically 2399 01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:25,800 important. Torn might have understood that 2400 01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:27,560 and it might have been a bar and was like, OK, like they may 2401 01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:29,000 have, He might have been like, OK, I'm going to, I'm going to, 2402 01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:30,600 I know I'm going to have to give my crown, but I'm going to act 2403 01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:33,440 like I'm going to use it as a negotiation leverage to keep my 2404 01:51:33,440 --> 01:51:35,760 sword. Like that's the one that's the 2405 01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:38,800 really valuable 1. And even though even though the 2406 01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:41,160 crown is more important symbolically ice is clearly 2407 01:51:41,840 --> 01:51:45,160 replaced like by a mile by a mile like like they just when 2408 01:51:45,160 --> 01:51:48,240 Rob needed a crown they just river run Smith just did that 2409 01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:50,920 like just boom made it took him probably like a week. 2410 01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:53,120 You know like no you're not replacing ice like that. 2411 01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:59,760 So to add to all the needles, so that's just actually backing up 2412 01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:02,040 slightly. That's a really just quite a 2413 01:52:02,040 --> 01:52:04,040 thing. It would have taken like maybe 2414 01:52:04,040 --> 01:52:07,840 days to get through everyone laying their sword. 30,000 men, 2415 01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:10,160 maybe not all 30,000 dead, because not all 30,000 would 2416 01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:10,800 have even had a. Sword. 2417 01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:14,400 I bet most did not have swords. In fact, yeah, they may have 2418 01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:17,600 only been like 5 to 8000 swords out of that 30,000. 2419 01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:20,440 Still 5 to 8000. You do one a minute. 2420 01:52:20,440 --> 01:52:24,160 That's days, yeah. If each guy is kneeling and, you 2421 01:52:24,160 --> 01:52:26,200 know, and laying a sword down and kneeling, yeah, that's 2422 01:52:26,280 --> 01:52:27,760 that's. Why would have been a process of 2423 01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:32,520 like each captain gathers up the eight swords of his soldiers, 2424 01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:36,120 and in each you know. Each Lord gathers up to 30 2425 01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:38,640 swords of his four captains, and then they bring them up 2426 01:52:38,640 --> 01:52:41,160 together. And but I also envision it 2427 01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:44,880 happening not just at the feet of Aegon, but right next to 2428 01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:46,320 Valerian. Oh yeah. 2429 01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:47,880 Just to drive it home. Just so. 2430 01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:50,280 Then when it go back home, they can explain why they gave up 2431 01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:51,760 their sword. You should have seen that 2432 01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:53,480 Dragon's Teeth were bigger than my sword. 2433 01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:58,880 What do you want from me, man, That's funny. 2434 01:52:58,880 --> 01:53:01,000 Yeah. So she was there for Torrance 2435 01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:02,760 kneeling. I mean she meaning Visenya and 2436 01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:04,400 so is Rainey's. Don't forget those that all 2437 01:53:04,400 --> 01:53:07,760 three of them were there. So this is a very, like dramatic 2438 01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:11,400 in terms of all the people that were there, all the presents, 2439 01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:13,840 all the like nobility and royalty and just it would have 2440 01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:16,000 been very dramatic. And if this is ever put on TV, 2441 01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:17,800 they're going to, they're going to do this one very cinematic. 2442 01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:20,200 So who's who's if kneeling and sword surrendering? 2443 01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:27,200 Yeah, right. So though we covered it in a 2444 01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:30,640 separate episode, recall that if you listen to that episode, 2445 01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,120 Vicenya didn't actually settle things in the Veil at this 2446 01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:34,520 point. This was still ongoing. 2447 01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:38,960 It was at this point that she after Torrens kneeling, she 2448 01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:41,680 returned to the Veil and then settled things, which went 2449 01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:44,200 pretty quickly, even though they were very set for defense. 2450 01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:48,640 She just, you know, flew past it all, which as we pointed out, 2451 01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:51,160 that's might have been what happened if if Torin had set up 2452 01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:53,560 a bunch of defenses, they might have just like flew and right 2453 01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:55,920 over it and been like bye like that. 2454 01:53:56,320 --> 01:54:00,480 Good job on the defense there. I'm just going to bypass it all, 2455 01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,920 you know, go right to Winterfell or something and scoop up a 2456 01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:06,080 Stark child or something. And it wouldn't have been quite 2457 01:54:06,080 --> 01:54:11,040 the same, but that that option, clearly it was available in some 2458 01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:14,400 form or fashion. So she was there for Torrance 2459 01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:16,880 kneeling, went, went, went back, finished all that off and it it 2460 01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:19,000 fits nicely though in this timeline of just so many 2461 01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:22,000 kneelings happening all at once or really close to the same 2462 01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:26,520 time. Meanwhile, Aegon headed for Old 2463 01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:31,040 Town after the star submission and Rainey's headed for Dorne, 2464 01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:34,320 which of course would not go so smoothly now. 2465 01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:39,080 We were planning on doing Old Town today, but I think we 2466 01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:41,320 probably don't fully have time for it. 2467 01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:44,920 So we'll come back to that and discuss it at the beginning of 2468 01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:47,120 the next episode, which is where we're going to be dealing with 2469 01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:50,120 the people who didn't kneel. So that'll still be fun because 2470 01:54:50,280 --> 01:54:53,760 the actual coronation happens during this visit to Old Town. 2471 01:54:53,760 --> 01:54:57,040 So this is when it's most clear who is not submitted and who 2472 01:54:57,040 --> 01:55:00,080 has. And it's not always as simple as 2473 01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:02,080 they didn't submit. We'll see that at the Iron 2474 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:03,200 Islands. The reason they didn't submit 2475 01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:05,640 there is there is no single leader to lead them in 2476 01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:08,400 submission, whereas in Dorne there was, but they were still 2477 01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,360 very united on not doing it. So a lot of that, well, that's 2478 01:55:11,360 --> 01:55:15,960 going to be a lot of fun, but we'll start it off with Old Town 2479 01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:19,080 and looking at this from the Targaryen perspective, because 2480 01:55:19,080 --> 01:55:21,600 we have already looked at it from the Hightower perspective 2481 01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:24,160 and there are some big differences here. 2482 01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:26,800 One thing you know, I'm not as versed on all this. 2483 01:55:26,800 --> 01:55:29,160 I haven't and as versed how reversed I am. 2484 01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:31,080 It's newer for me than a lot of you guys. 2485 01:55:31,320 --> 01:55:36,400 So I wonder thinking about how Aegon could have should have 2486 01:55:36,400 --> 01:55:38,560 handled Dorne. I was started thinking about it 2487 01:55:38,560 --> 01:55:41,720 when I thought that when he when he turned to go deal with Torn, 2488 01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:43,000 which seemed like the right thing. 2489 01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:45,320 But what if he hadn't? If he had gone right to Dorne at 2490 01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,040 that moment, maybe Dora wouldn't have been as ready. 2491 01:55:48,560 --> 01:55:51,000 Maybe he would have had some success there if they hadn't 2492 01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:53,120 been as organized or come up with a plan. 2493 01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:56,920 I'm I'm not sure if that's the case, but I it's something I 2494 01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,240 started thinking about. Like, if maybe he should have 2495 01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:03,920 gone to certain regions rather than straight for the head of 2496 01:56:03,920 --> 01:56:07,120 the snake, if you will, you know, Yeah, yeah, and you're 2497 01:56:07,120 --> 01:56:08,640 right too. Like, if he had gone straight 2498 01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:11,440 there, like, what? Did he know he was going to have 2499 01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:14,720 a second coronation in in Old Town before he got there? 2500 01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:17,640 Was that in the back of his mind or like a dead set plan? 2501 01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:18,840 Or did he even think of that at all? 2502 01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:21,280 He may have already considered himself crowned and was like, 2503 01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:22,560 you know what? Actually a second coronation's a 2504 01:56:22,560 --> 01:56:24,040 really good idea. But it may not have occurred to 2505 01:56:24,040 --> 01:56:26,960 him or been something that he thought was important until the 2506 01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:28,880 high towers and be like you should do this, you should be 2507 01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:30,560 crowned by the High Septon. Look how important they look, 2508 01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:32,240 how valuable it is. He may not have even known it 2509 01:56:32,240 --> 01:56:34,200 was an option. Maybe he for all he knew the the 2510 01:56:34,200 --> 01:56:36,120 septon was going to like fight him or something. 2511 01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:38,720 Because again we pointed out he didn't know that they had 2512 01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:42,720 decided already to bend the knee he had, but they just didn't 2513 01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:43,720 tell him in advance. Maybe. 2514 01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:45,680 Probably because they were waiting to see if he actually 2515 01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:47,080 made it, if he actually got there. 2516 01:56:47,160 --> 01:56:50,120 I wonder too if the idea of him being coordinated and declaring 2517 01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:53,280 himself. King of Dorne might have added 2518 01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:55,560 to Dorne being like what we'll see about that. 2519 01:56:55,560 --> 01:57:01,000 Whereas if he had gone to treat with him first, negotiated like 2520 01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:04,720 he did with Torn in some way, Right on. 2521 01:57:04,760 --> 01:57:06,520 Yeah, that's a good. That's a clever thought. 2522 01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:08,920 Dorne might have had an extra chip on her shoulder over that 2523 01:57:08,920 --> 01:57:10,280 coronation, you know? Yeah. 2524 01:57:10,440 --> 01:57:12,880 OK, Yeah, that's a good. That is a very good point. 2525 01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:14,400 Yeah. So yeah, the fact that the the 2526 01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:17,160 order of the coronation maybe, maybe insulted by that, he'd 2527 01:57:17,160 --> 01:57:19,960 already said he'd already sent the letters out and he'd already 2528 01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:21,640 been crowned on the Blackwater. Some people may have already 2529 01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:22,920 felt that way, but like this, this may have. 2530 01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:25,160 Just a little more public. It may have increased that 2531 01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:27,200 feeling. And and because so many people 2532 01:57:27,200 --> 01:57:28,480 supported it. Yeah, a lot. 2533 01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:30,600 Yeah, a lot more public. And they're like, hey, what are 2534 01:57:30,600 --> 01:57:32,320 we over here? What do we chop, Liva? 2535 01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:33,880 And Tree looks like it in Toronto. 2536 01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:37,560 We didn't bend in need of you. Like, let's get a plan together 2537 01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:40,680 for when he comes, you know, If we didn't have the plan yet, 2538 01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:43,520 yeah, it's a good point. It does sort of show contempt 2539 01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:44,840 for the regions that hadn't been to need it. 2540 01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:46,200 It's like, well, y'all don't matter. 2541 01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:48,840 Like I this is, I've subjugated the the ones that do matter. 2542 01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:49,920 You guys are an afterthought. I'll come. 2543 01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:51,960 I'll get to you later. Like, like the Iron Islands and 2544 01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:55,880 the Three Sisters and and Dorne, which, who would be the most 2545 01:57:55,880 --> 01:57:58,640 insulted by all that? I think by far, if they weren't 2546 01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:01,000 already deeply insulted. Probably everyone would have 2547 01:58:01,000 --> 01:58:03,840 just been better off if Dorne just did bend the knee, right? 2548 01:58:03,840 --> 01:58:06,160 Like probably a lot of unnecessary deaths and 2549 01:58:06,160 --> 01:58:08,880 instability occur because of it. I don't. 2550 01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:10,480 But you understand why they didn't, yeah? 2551 01:58:11,280 --> 01:58:14,280 Reasons I hadn't thought of before are are bubbling up in me 2552 01:58:14,280 --> 01:58:16,200 now. They have more time to plan. 2553 01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:19,400 They. Got together strategies to 2554 01:58:19,400 --> 01:58:22,120 devoid the Dragons. Aegon had been able to meet 2555 01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:24,880 everyone full force versus full force and his place of choosing 2556 01:58:24,880 --> 01:58:27,360 pretty much Dorn's like, we're not going to do it that way. 2557 01:58:27,360 --> 01:58:29,400 You see what I mean? They they got to learn lessons 2558 01:58:29,400 --> 01:58:32,640 and come up with new plans with this extra time they had and had 2559 01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:35,080 extra chip on her shoulder because it's coronation. 2560 01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:37,600 Like I wonder if he had been able to go straight there 2561 01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:39,760 instead of seeing Torn first. It might have played out 2562 01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:40,720 differently, yeah. Yeah. 2563 01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:43,080 Because another factor there, like you said, just to add to 2564 01:58:43,080 --> 01:58:45,480 that, is that this, the Coronation is like a big deal. 2565 01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:47,240 It should have been invited. It should have been part of it. 2566 01:58:47,240 --> 01:58:50,760 They should have been at it like that's it's like having a royal 2567 01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:53,000 wedding. But you like don't invite one of 2568 01:58:53,000 --> 01:58:55,360 the great houses to it. They're like, that's a huge snub 2569 01:58:55,640 --> 01:58:57,160 now. And this is not quite like that 2570 01:58:57,160 --> 01:58:59,600 because they're still in resistant. 2571 01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:00,840 They're open, you know, in open resistance. 2572 01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:04,640 But but Aegon from the book, it sounds like Aegon was expecting 2573 01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:08,120 them to submit. So from their perspective, you 2574 01:59:08,120 --> 01:59:12,280 expected us to submit, but you got crowned before that. 2575 01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:14,480 Like, yeah, that's insulting to them, you know, and to to not 2576 01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:18,040 just to the Prince of Dorne, but probably to a lot of like rank 2577 01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:20,600 and file dornishment. Common folk were like, yeah, why 2578 01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:22,320 are we the afterthought here, You know. 2579 01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:25,520 And certain leaders might fire them up like that might playoff 2580 01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:28,160 that, exacerbate that by. Yeah. 2581 01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:31,760 Inflaming their, their anger with the Targaryens for bringing 2582 01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:34,200 that up and just making it about their nationality and their 2583 01:59:34,200 --> 01:59:36,360 ethnicity. Look, he's looking down on us, 2584 01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:37,480 everybody. Like, what is he? 2585 01:59:37,480 --> 01:59:39,200 You know, we should fight. And that might have really 2586 01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:40,600 helped you, right. That might have this this may 2587 01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:43,080 have been a pretty big mistake on Aegon's part. 2588 01:59:43,080 --> 01:59:45,160 So that's something we'll talk about when we get there. 2589 01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:48,880 We've got great set up for future discussions and many for 2590 01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:51,480 future discussions to come. We're not quite done yet though. 2591 01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:55,560 A couple of wrap up bits here. Hey, you got it quite well. 2592 01:59:55,560 --> 01:59:58,480 This is a question for both of us, but you are more equipped to 2593 01:59:58,480 --> 01:59:59,680 answer since you spent more time there. 2594 01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:02,840 Lollitof wants to know how Atlanta Pride was this past 2595 02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:05,520 weekend, the weekend before last, which is what we did 2596 02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:08,640 instead of having an episode. She was there all three days, 2597 02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:11,200 and I was just there one day. So yeah, you start us off, Shay. 2598 02:00:11,640 --> 02:00:14,000 Yeah, it was. I mean, the weather is nicer 2599 02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:16,760 than than June, that's for sure in October. 2600 02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:19,600 But it was a little wet and rainy and muddy. 2601 02:00:19,600 --> 02:00:22,560 So there's a lot of mud at the at the. 2602 02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:26,200 Festival one of the days. Second day was a little bit 2603 02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:29,320 cold, but besides the weather, which I still honestly would 2604 02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:31,880 pick that weather over June in Atlanta. 2605 02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:34,600 Yeah, to be clear, Pride is usually in June in most cities, 2606 02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:36,520 but Atlanta Pride is in October. Yeah. 2607 02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:39,960 And so, yeah, the weather didn't cooperate the most, but we still 2608 02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:42,720 saw some some, some music, some like. 2609 02:00:44,280 --> 02:00:48,080 So the DJ that did like ballroom, like voguing, like 2610 02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:52,440 pose, you know, like that type of a dancers on stage, which was 2611 02:00:52,440 --> 02:00:56,360 pretty cool. And yeah, went to some parties. 2612 02:00:56,360 --> 02:01:00,880 I went to this Coyote queer like a Coyote Ugly like burlesque 2613 02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:03,240 type show. Yeah, it was a really fun fun 2614 02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:04,520 time. I honestly, my favorite thing 2615 02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:06,000 about Pride is seeing the fashion. 2616 02:01:06,520 --> 02:01:09,800 Yeah, there are just you will, you will see outfits that you've 2617 02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:14,920 never imagined were could exist, like, oh, I've never. 2618 02:01:15,000 --> 02:01:17,520 That's a thing I didn't know existed, you know? 2619 02:01:17,840 --> 02:01:21,240 That's my reaction. Some others are very cool. 2620 02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:24,160 Some of them are very. Just some of them. 2621 02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:27,000 I honestly don't like it all. And I I'm not gonna like. 2622 02:01:27,080 --> 02:01:28,120 Everything. Yeah, I like everything. 2623 02:01:28,240 --> 02:01:30,280 But some of them I'm still like, wow, that's so interesting. 2624 02:01:30,280 --> 02:01:31,680 It's always interesting. Yeah. 2625 02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:33,640 It's creative, even if you don't like it sometimes, You know, 2626 02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:35,760 like I I'm not sure about that, but it is creative. 2627 02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:39,160 I had. I had a good time with that for 2628 02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:42,040 sure, and John's grabbing a cat for us too, 'cause it's been a 2629 02:01:42,040 --> 02:01:44,320 little while. We've been off our our groove 2630 02:01:44,320 --> 02:01:46,360 and bringing cats out hoping we could. 2631 02:01:46,760 --> 02:01:50,200 I found myself a nice ring, a Targaryen looking ring that I 2632 02:01:50,200 --> 02:01:51,760 found from a vendor there at Pride. 2633 02:01:51,760 --> 02:01:55,520 It was cool black and red and and you know, silvery colored 2634 02:01:57,160 --> 02:02:02,160 for 12 bucks. I like to wear rings 2635 02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:05,640 occasionally and yeah, from my experience, it's fun. 2636 02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:07,640 It's just like there's a lot of great food vendors there. 2637 02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:09,560 There's always a lot of things to see and just walk around. 2638 02:02:09,560 --> 02:02:11,360 People are always having people having such a great time. 2639 02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:12,960 So just like the vibe is really positive. 2640 02:02:13,480 --> 02:02:15,640 Yeah, the weather, it was a little cold the day I went, but 2641 02:02:15,640 --> 02:02:17,760 that wasn't such a big deal. You know you're you're active 2642 02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:21,400 you're walking around and and I love one thing I really like is 2643 02:02:21,400 --> 02:02:24,600 how people have they they stake out a spot on Piedmont Park with 2644 02:02:24,920 --> 02:02:27,640 with like a pavilion almost like the tents that you think about 2645 02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:30,800 in for A Song of Ice and Fire. Like a tournament gathered where 2646 02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:33,200 there's just everybody's got tents set up and it gets a 2647 02:02:33,200 --> 02:02:35,640 little after a few days the ground gets pretty torn up from 2648 02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:38,040 so many people walking around and it's worse than usual 2649 02:02:38,040 --> 02:02:40,000 because it was it was rainy so it was very muddy. 2650 02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:44,440 It's they should think of the muddy mess without the fighting 2651 02:02:44,440 --> 02:02:47,600 instead of the opposite attitude instead of people fighting. 2652 02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:50,000 They're all very happy and celebrating love and things like 2653 02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:51,920 that. But it it's still just as much 2654 02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:57,240 foot traffic, so the ground gets just as torn up and Sean has a 2655 02:02:57,240 --> 02:02:59,160 cat. Also, one thing I will tell 2656 02:02:59,160 --> 02:03:03,280 everyone Aziz is going to a corn maze on Thursday. 2657 02:03:03,280 --> 02:03:05,920 Aziz and I are going to a local 1 here in Georgia. 2658 02:03:06,440 --> 02:03:09,720 If you remember in our episode on Laura we I discovered the 2659 02:03:09,720 --> 02:03:11,720 disease has never been in a maze at all. 2660 02:03:12,080 --> 02:03:14,720 And I like mazes. They're cool and it's a fun 2661 02:03:14,720 --> 02:03:17,200 experience. And someone reminded me on 2662 02:03:17,200 --> 02:03:20,360 Discord last month. Now that it's May corn maze 2663 02:03:20,360 --> 02:03:23,520 season, 'cause it's obviously seasonal, 'cause it's they 2664 02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:25,840 harvest the corn, someone reminded me. 2665 02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:29,480 And so I found one that we can go to and we will update y'all 2666 02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:32,320 with pictures and his take on on the maze. 2667 02:03:33,720 --> 02:03:34,920 It's a real fail that they're called. 2668 02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:36,800 Will you be crowned King of the Corn Maze? 2669 02:03:39,560 --> 02:03:41,880 Are you going to say these days should be maze Maze. 2670 02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:44,840 Yes, it's a fail that they're called Corn mazes and not maze. 2671 02:03:44,840 --> 02:03:46,680 Mazes. Yeah, maze. 2672 02:03:46,760 --> 02:03:49,000 You call it corn. I like I I just want to say in 2673 02:03:49,000 --> 02:03:51,880 the chat devoted to Mariah said I want to hold the Kitty. 2674 02:03:52,080 --> 02:03:56,120 But SKG, Ano said. I want to hold Sean be a 2 for 2675 02:03:56,120 --> 02:03:57,520 one while he's holding the Kitty like. 2676 02:03:57,520 --> 02:04:00,680 Yeah, he even better. Yeah, 2 for one that got her run 2677 02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:01,680 away. She's like, I don't like that 2678 02:04:01,680 --> 02:04:06,480 idea. The cat ran away all right, so 2679 02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:09,760 next week we will pick right back up where we left off with 2680 02:04:09,760 --> 02:04:13,600 the submission of Old Town pivoting to those who did not 2681 02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:17,880 bend the knee, the Unbent, the Dornish, the Iron Islanders and 2682 02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:19,840 the Three Sisters, and maybe a few other spots. 2683 02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:22,120 That will be a lot of fun as we work our way through. 2684 02:04:22,120 --> 02:04:24,440 But also, I want to announce that we're going to take a break 2685 02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:28,680 from Fire and Blood Rereadus right at the end of the Conquest 2686 02:04:28,800 --> 02:04:32,560 in order to pivot, to do a few other style episodes, just just 2687 02:04:32,560 --> 02:04:35,280 to mix things up a little bit before returning to the reign of 2688 02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:36,960 the Dragon. So this is a good spot for that 2689 02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:38,440 because it's right at the end of the conquest. 2690 02:04:38,440 --> 02:04:40,280 And we thought that was a good time to take a short break 2691 02:04:40,840 --> 02:04:43,160 because we usually mix up the topics a little more than this 2692 02:04:43,160 --> 02:04:44,880 in general, except when we're doing a reread. 2693 02:04:44,880 --> 02:04:48,280 But The thing is, most rereads move around more than Fire and 2694 02:04:48,280 --> 02:04:49,880 Blood does. You know, World of Ice and Fire 2695 02:04:49,880 --> 02:04:51,600 jumps topics a lot. A Song of Ice and Fire, of 2696 02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:53,960 course, does even more because it's chapter by chapter. 2697 02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:57,720 So we wanted to keep that vibe of mixing things up, not getting 2698 02:04:57,720 --> 02:05:00,600 too stuck on the Conquest here and not stuck on the Aegon's 2699 02:05:00,600 --> 02:05:01,680 reign. So we'll move it around a little 2700 02:05:01,680 --> 02:05:03,320 bit and keep it fresh and then get back to it. 2701 02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:06,080 So that's that's the next that's the plan for the rest of the 2702 02:05:06,080 --> 02:05:09,000 year basically and we'll keep you, we'll give you be a little 2703 02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:10,840 more detailed with it as we move forward. 2704 02:05:11,440 --> 02:05:14,840 So a few people got the trivia question for sure. 2705 02:05:14,960 --> 02:05:16,760 OK yeah. So the trivia question again was 2706 02:05:16,760 --> 02:05:19,360 where is hot pie now? Where was the last place we saw 2707 02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:21,400 him? The answer is the end of the 2708 02:05:21,400 --> 02:05:23,160 kneeling man. Yes, that's right. 2709 02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:24,720 That was. We did talk about that 2710 02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:28,040 specifically and this. Remember what happened there? 2711 02:05:28,040 --> 02:05:30,520 Hot pies like this bread stinks. And they're like, let's see you 2712 02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:32,080 do a better job. He's like, all right. 2713 02:05:32,760 --> 02:05:35,080 It's like, I'll do it. I will give me, let me in the 2714 02:05:35,080 --> 02:05:37,360 kitchen. And then that's what happened. 2715 02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:39,080 And they were like, yeah, this bread is better. 2716 02:05:40,280 --> 02:05:41,680 Hot pie knows the deal. Yeah. 2717 02:05:41,680 --> 02:05:44,240 So which is nice, isn't it? You know we got to hope roofer 2718 02:05:44,240 --> 02:05:47,240 hot pie being he's a, he's a symbolic of people that can find 2719 02:05:47,240 --> 02:05:51,800 their place in in in a in a war-torn world and make other 2720 02:05:51,800 --> 02:05:54,800 people's lives a little bit better using their skills. 2721 02:05:55,080 --> 02:05:56,160 Yeah. Go hot pie. 2722 02:05:56,520 --> 02:06:00,240 Hope he hope we see him again. I hope he's doing well and 2723 02:06:00,640 --> 02:06:04,320 everyone go eat something tasty in honor of hot pie. 2724 02:06:04,480 --> 02:06:06,640 We're about to eat something really tasty, that's true. 2725 02:06:06,640 --> 02:06:09,360 We've got some homemade lasagna waiting for us out there. 2726 02:06:09,360 --> 02:06:13,640 We are lucky people. Yeah, so very lucky now. 2727 02:06:13,760 --> 02:06:15,680 Yeah. So other episodes that got 2728 02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:18,440 mentioned during this one before the Dragons and under the 2729 02:06:18,440 --> 02:06:19,880 Dragons. Most of those series are very 2730 02:06:19,880 --> 02:06:22,120 relevant to hear, as you probably know just from the 2731 02:06:22,120 --> 02:06:27,120 title, the Valerian episode, the Doom episode, Age of Heroes 2732 02:06:27,120 --> 02:06:29,840 content Highgarden of course that's a big one giving the 2733 02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:33,240 surrender of Highgarden is about to come up and plenty of others 2734 02:06:33,240 --> 02:06:34,680 that are relevant. Any pretty much anything to do 2735 02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:36,480 with House Targaryen is kind of relevant to these, like 2736 02:06:36,720 --> 02:06:41,000 Mentari's or House Celtic are House Valerian or the Valyria 2737 02:06:41,000 --> 02:06:42,640 episodes. So many that are out there. 2738 02:06:42,640 --> 02:06:46,400 And of course our recent episode on the Last Storm which is our 2739 02:06:46,440 --> 02:06:49,200 patron slash members only episode dealing with the 2740 02:06:49,200 --> 02:06:50,800 conquest or that aspect of the conquest. 2741 02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:54,960 So you can get that by joining us on Patreon, or by becoming a 2742 02:06:55,000 --> 02:06:58,360 Spotify subscriber, or by sending a donation through 2743 02:06:58,360 --> 02:07:00,600 PayPal. We'll send you all our bonus 2744 02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:04,360 episodes if you do that. And you can find your way to all 2745 02:07:04,360 --> 02:07:07,320 of those links and possible ways to support via History of 2746 02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:09,600 westeros.com. Thanks to anyone who does 2747 02:07:09,600 --> 02:07:12,800 support us that way, or by word of mouth or any other way 2748 02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:14,040 really. We do appreciate it. 2749 02:07:14,040 --> 02:07:16,960 It is very important to our success and survival as as an 2750 02:07:16,960 --> 02:07:19,040 independent show. Thanks as well to Nina for 2751 02:07:19,040 --> 02:07:22,320 invaluable notes and advice. Not only does she have notes put 2752 02:07:22,320 --> 02:07:25,640 in every episode, almost every episode, but she and I talk 2753 02:07:25,640 --> 02:07:28,280 about things offline quite a bit, which helps me form my 2754 02:07:28,280 --> 02:07:30,440 thoughts and get them more straightened out and helps me 2755 02:07:30,440 --> 02:07:32,000 think of things that I might have missed. 2756 02:07:32,440 --> 02:07:34,960 She's invaluable in that regard and in many other ways. 2757 02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:37,560 Joey, Jesse and Bran and Michael Clarfeld. 2758 02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:40,400 Thanks to you guys as well for the intro music, the outro 2759 02:07:40,400 --> 02:07:44,560 music, the intro video, and the maps behind us. 2760 02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:50,720 Go to Claire Docs KLARADO x.de to find Michael Clarfeld site 2761 02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:53,040 and get maps just like the one behind me for yourself. 2762 02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:58,000 And also thanks to our Benjaner for sound quality assistance 2763 02:07:58,240 --> 02:08:00,720 from time to time. That's right, you know what to 2764 02:08:00,720 --> 02:08:02,120 do. Until next time everybody. 2765 02:08:02,480 --> 02:08:06,560 For Sean and Ashea Valar, reread us 2766 02:08:29,450 --> 02:08:29,530 the.