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Once the closest thing to a town
in the lands beyond the Wall, 

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something terrible and 
mysterious befell Hardhome about

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600 years ago. 
It has since become an overgrown

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ruin, shunned and considered 
accursed. 

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Yet Despite that, it is suddenly
important again in A Song of Ice

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00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,680
and Fire as hordes of refugees 
flee there following the dreams 

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of a woods witch. 
As reports reach John of whites 

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in the woods and waters, dreams 
reach Melisandre of an 

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impossibly cold mist, turning 
the free folk into skulls. 

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What the heck happened all those
years ago, and what the heck is 

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happening there now? 
Could this be how the others 

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get, or at least dramatically 
increase the size of their army?

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I would argue that there is so, 
so much happening at Castle 

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Black alone, never mind the rest
of the Wall and beyond, 

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especially at the end of A Dance
With Dragons, that Hardhome 

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tends to get lost in the shuffle
a bit, especially for book 

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readers, but even for those of 
us who are most obsessed, of 

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course because it was a little 
more prominent on the TV show is

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why I phrase it that way. 
But Hardholm, however, heavily 

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hews to those happenings, 
meaning it is a tied 

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inextricably to a lot of 
different plot lines. 

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John decides to go to Hardholm, 
then changes his mind to March 

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South, then gets stabbed. 
So you can see why it's rather 

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chaotic and caught up amongst 
other plot lines. 

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So it's connected to a lot of 
things, and it's very important 

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by itself. 
It's a place destroyed by fire, 

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now overwhelmed by ice. 
It is indeed cursed if you look 

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at it that way, with both 
natural and supernatural 

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explanations behind all that. 
And we've got that and more on 

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this episode of History of 
Westeros podcast do. 

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We have any more alliteration. 
That was nice. 

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I always try to squeeze in 
alliteration when I can. 

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That's right. 
Hello and welcome everybody. 

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It's another episode of History 
of Westeros podcast. 

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We're so happy to be here with 
you. 

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It's another Sunday. 
It is approximately 3:00, which 

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is when we get started. 
If you're in Easter time on most

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Sundays, keep in mind that our 
time frames will be switching. 

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Whenever there's ATV Show on, 
which will be happening in June 

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00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,880
of 2024, is the next time that's
coming. 

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Every video on YouTube, every 
episode is up on Spotify in both

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00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,240
video and audio form. 
In fact, you can find our 

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00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,280
podcast anywhere you find your 
regular podcast. 

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00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,920
We should be available on any 
platform, but if you sign up on 

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00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,120
Patreon, you get our show ad 
free. 

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00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,280
How's it going, Sean? 
What's your what you got on your

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shirt there? 
I don't. 

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The Last Airbender and The Last 
Airbender who was frozen in ice 

49
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had been a little inspired from 
the idea what might be frozen up

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in the North. 
Right on and I have the Nights 

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Watch Brothers shirt the Blues 
instead of the Blues Brothers. 

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You know it's the it's the Black
Brothers. 

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Even though it says the Nights 
Watch. 

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Brothers, I have a Pickle Jar 
Hero shirt. 

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Any fans of Curb Your Enthusiasm
will know the reference to the 

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Pickle Jar gambit, One of my 
most OFT referenced Curb bits, 

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and I'm quite excited for the 
episode tonight. 

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Everybody wants to be a pickle 
jar hero. 

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I always want to be a pickle jar
hero. 

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I mean, it applies to everything
really. 

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Does not just let me do it. 
I'll get it. 

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I'll get it. 
Surely I will get it. 

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I'm different. 
No, you just always want to try.

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Even if I don't think I'm going 
to get it, I have to try. 

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It is a a strange little quirk 
of of human nature that yes, we 

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all individually want to be the 
one to open the pickle jar or 

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whatever, open the strange 
packaging, whatever difficult 

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packages, among other things. 
Yeah, yes. 

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So hello everybody. 
I want to also give a shout out 

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to our good friend Nina. 
You can check her out at good 

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queenalley.tumblr.com. 
That's 1L in alley and 1L in 

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Tumblr. 
I I don't suppose you thought 

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there'd be two in there, but 
just in case, Tumblr is TU MB 

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LR. 
No, it's slumbler and the first 

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L is silent. 
Slumbler, Slumbler, Slumbler. 

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The latest blog post over on 
Good Queen ali.tumbler.com is a 

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question about warts and age 
limit and how does that work 

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when like Theon was 19 for 
example, When would that have 

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expired at some point? 
Like how does that work when he 

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was he had just could he have 
just still been there when he 

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was 30 if nothing had changed? 
Like how does that actually? 

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Work for a moment. 
I thought you said warts. 

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Warts, yes. 
Do warts work in Westeros? 

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Whenever he grows up, whenever 
Theon grows up, that's. 

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Yeah, So it just never, Yeah. 
Maybe never. 

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Yeah. 
But not only does he have some 

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good takes on this, she has some
direct quotes from George on the

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matter, so it's worth reading 
for multiple reasons to check 

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that out. 
Once again, that is good. 

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Queenalley.tumblr.com You can 
send us questions at 

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westeroshistory@gmail.com or you
can post them here in the live 

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00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,280
chat and we might answer them 
live and shout your name out. 

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We'll also mention some episodes
at the end of this one that 

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relate to the topic at hand in 
case you want to stay immersed. 

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And I will also answer this 
trivia question for you all. 

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Unless you already know the 
answer then you don't need me to

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tell you the answer, but it will
come at the end one way or the 

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other. 
The question being what is the 

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name of Cotter Pike's ship? 
The name will be read during 

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this episode, so pay attention 
if you don't recall. 

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Also, Congrats to Ashton, AK 
Fox, and Brambles for winning 

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both of the trivia games that we
held on our monthly Discord 

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hangout. 
For patrons, there's a 

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00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,960
dominating performance. 
Yeah, she did very well. 

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There were a lot of sigil 
questions and she does a lot of 

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sigil art, so she had a leg up. 
But no, she she did very well. 

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Just props to her. 
Good job, Good job. 

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Good job, good job. 
That's the designer of our logo,

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if you all didn't know too. 
That's right. 

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That's right, In the first half 
of this episode we will deal 

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with the history of Hard Home, 
the mysteries of its 

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destruction, and that's going to
include some real life volcano 

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lore. second-half of the 
episode, we'll discuss what's 

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actually happening there now. 
So good, a little past and 

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present look, as we'll explain 
in this episode as well. 

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Hard Home, from a meta 
perspective, was conceived by 

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George at least a decade prior 
to A Dance With Dragons. 

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So maybe after A Storm of 
Swords, but definitely before A 

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Feast for Crows. 
And that's when we first hear of

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it. 
A Dance With Dragons is when 

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it's first mentioned, and as we 
so often do, we'll start with 

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that first mention. 
It's not. 

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It's the very first chapter of A
Dance With Dragons. 

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In fact, it is the Vermeer's 
prologue. 

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So right off the bat now, it's 
not strange that Hardhome hadn't

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been mentioned prior to A Dance 
With Dragons because it was 

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abandoned. 
No one lived there. 

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There wasn't much reason to go 
there. 

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Even the Free Folk hadn't really
lived there for centuries until 

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recently, so recent events 
caused it to become important 

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again, which is why it pops up 
in the narrative after having 

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not been mentioned before. 
It's not like people think about

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it every day, like Rome. 
Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

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We do hear that ships from 
Eastwatch by the sea 

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occasionally pass by the area 
because it's part of ranging. 

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Like they Rangers go over land 
to check things out, but they 

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00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,520
also do like sea ranging and by 
going up the coast there. 

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And Hardhome is on the coast. 
So it's not that they're 

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specifically checking out 
Hardhome, it's they're checking 

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out the coast and Hardhome is 
there. 

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But here's why that has changed.
Here's why Hardhome is becoming 

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important again after so long a 
leader has emerged, apparently 

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on the strength of some dreams 
she's had. 

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Her name is Mother Mole and here
is a quote about her. 

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Supposedly she made her home in 
a Burrow beneath a hollow tree. 

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Whatever the truth of that, she 
had a vision of a fleet of ships

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arriving to carry the free folk 
to safety across the narrow Sea.

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Thousands of those who fled the 
battle were desperate enough to 

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believe her mother Mole has LED 
them all to Hardhome, there to 

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pray and await salvation from 
across. 

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00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,880
The sea, Otho, Yarwick scowled. 
I'm no Ranger, but Hardhome is 

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an unholy place, it said. 
Cursed. 

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00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,360
Even your uncle used to say as 
much. 

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00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,920
Lord Snow, why would they go 
there? 

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00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,520
We don't know much about this 
Mother Mole person at all. 

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00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,040
We haven't seen her on screen. 
She's just been mentioned by 

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several people, both by Vermeer,
by Jon Snow, and maybe a few 

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others. 
If she's inventing her dream, 

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there's a certain cleverness to 
the choice of hard home, which 

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is that it is the best place for
ships to arrive. 

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However, there's no reason to 
think that ships would arrive 

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00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,240
because it's been gone for so 
long. 

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I don't think this is some plot 
by Mother Mole, just leading the

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people there on a whim. 
I think she really did have this

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dream, you know, I think she's 
sincere. 

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In other words, it might be just
a crazy random dream. 

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However, it really does happen. 
Ships actually do show up there.

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So there's we have a lot of 
reason to believe that this was 

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a legitimate prophetic dream at 
both. 

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00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,440
Ships from the Nights Watch and 
some random slave ships from 

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Lease are blown off course 
there. 

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So Mother MO quotes it as 
salvation where they once found 

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damnation, and that's sort of 
true. 

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00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,160
You know, but this makes me 
think of what's that is 

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00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,000
Druselka, the Roinish priestess 
that was part of the Roinish 

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00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,760
migration. 
She also sort of led her people 

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00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,280
to their demise. 
That's a good point. 

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00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,760
Yes, that's a very good point. 
Before Nymeria LED them away. 

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00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,280
Yeah, well she LED them away and
she some Roinish went back to. 

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00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:24,840
Oh, was just open. 
That's OK. 

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00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,400
I was thinking somebody. 
Else, yeah, no. 

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00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,640
Celka LED her. 
Like, brought a bunch of people 

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from. 
They were in the Summer Isles. 

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That's. 
Right after their wanderings 

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00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,520
went bad, some people went back.
They went back and they just got

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00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,880
hunted down and enslaved. 
Which is what happened here. 

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00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,440
You're right. 
So the dream. 

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00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,680
This is a great one of the most 
tragic examples of how dream 

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00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,360
interpretation can go so wrong. 
Technically, the dream was 

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00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:48,880
salvation, where they once found
damnation. 

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00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,520
Well, that is true for some of 
them, as we'll see, but only a 

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00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,440
very small percentage of them 
escaped to some warmer pastures.

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00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,240
A lot of others were captured by
slavers. 

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00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,600
Technically they went somewhere 
warmer, but in slaver, in 

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00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,480
chains, it's not a better life. 
And that's what had befell most 

196
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,520
of the people who got away from 
hard home to this point. 

197
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,800
That might be a debatable point.
It might be a better life 

198
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,160
because the alternative might be
Starve and Freeze to Death or. 

199
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,400
And risen again as a children 
by. 

200
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,320
Zombies, you know. 
That's a good point rock and a 

201
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,560
hard place type situation, which
is really what a lot of this 

202
00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,760
episode is going to contain like
well this is awful. 

203
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,280
I would well the alternative is 
worse and that's that's sort of 

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00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,000
how I phrased it to begin the 
episode. 

205
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,080
We have a place that was 
destroyed by fire and now is 

206
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,000
being overwhelmed by ice. 
So it's truly, it's in itself is

207
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,920
caught between the two major 
elemental forces that this story

208
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:40,680
highlights. 
I don't. 

209
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,160
Remember if it's in in the the 
document. 

210
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,120
But I remember there was a quote
bad, worse and worse. 

211
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,440
The beggar's Choice. 
You know, Yeah. 

212
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,640
And that's often what this is. 
Yeah. 

213
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,200
I mean the people aren't going 
to hard home because they think 

214
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:53,640
great things are going to 
happen. 

215
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,320
They it's it is desperation. 
They're like they're already 

216
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,760
starving and and cold and a lot 
of them are sick and hounded by 

217
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,440
the others and by the undead so 
and by nights watch and for a 

218
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,960
while Stannis's men were hunting
them too because this is all 

219
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,920
fall out from the battle beneath
the wall. 

220
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,240
So we don't have any real so I I
rose the idea of mother Maul 

221
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,920
inventing the stream just to 
dismiss it. 

222
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,760
I want to be thorough. 
I don't actually think that's 

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00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,600
very likely, but you know, we're
trying to cover all the bases 

224
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,920
here. 
So I think that's she had the 

225
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:28,040
dream and they've all followed 
this dream and well, this is 

226
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,240
where it's taking us. 
I want to point another thing 

227
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,400
out here is that this Mother 
Mole character, I wonder if she 

228
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,960
might become significant. 
Like, it's hard to predict where

229
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,120
this is going because I can 
imagine we never even go to 

230
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,400
Hardhome like a there's no 
follow through with this, you 

231
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,960
know? 
But whether we do or not, I 

232
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,360
still think it's interesting. 
She, this Mother Mole character,

233
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,440
convinced thousands of people to
follow this dream, right? 

234
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,040
It's one thing to have a dream 
and maybe the people close to 

235
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,280
you or maybe even your whole 
village, but she got thousands 

236
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,880
of people to go. 
So her or someone close to her 

237
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,560
must have some significant 
influence, whether it's a 

238
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:04,280
leadership role or maybe her 
dreams have been correct in the 

239
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,040
past. 
I wonder how many other 

240
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,280
properties she has thrown out 
there. 

241
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,760
They came to fruition and people
like, well, I guess we better do

242
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,680
what she's saying, you know? 
She might be charismatic. 

243
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:14,400
You're right. 
I I like the idea that she's had

244
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,760
prophetic dreams come true 
before and and since this one 

245
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,960
did, in a way, in a manner of 
speaking, certainly ships did 

246
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,680
arrive there. 
That's not debatable. 

247
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,840
So yeah, And? 
And if we're going back to 

248
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,280
Vermeer's chapter, it is indeed 
a scene of great desperation. 

249
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,840
He thinks on how there's 
literally like you said, Sean, 

250
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,920
thousands of them quote, 
struggling through the forest, 

251
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,680
hungry, frightened, fleeing the 
carnage that had descended on 

252
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,800
them at the wall. 
It's a series of such conditions

253
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,160
for the free folk. 
Yeah, a bunch of, like you said,

254
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,520
bad, worse, worst, or damned if 
you do, damned if you don't. 

255
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,320
Choices. 
Name your cliche. 

256
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,720
There's a lot of them that fit 
here. 

257
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,880
Now also at Hardhome, this is 
what we also have sort of in the

258
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,760
mix that we'll discuss more 
later in the second-half. 

259
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,280
But this is what's attached to 
this is the Night's Watch fleet,

260
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,120
which is 11 ships. 
Some of them are commandeered 

261
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,560
from Tycho Nestorius, some of 
them are commandeered from 

262
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:05,640
Lyseni, and one's a Pentashi 
trader, one's an Ibanez. 

263
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,320
Well, it's a ragtag group. 
And then there were other Lyseni

264
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,720
ships that came before the 
Night's Watch fleet that were 

265
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,320
the Good Heart and the Elephant.
And those are the ones that took

266
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,600
slaves and tried to get away, 
one of which ended up at Braavos

267
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,600
because it was taking on water. 
And Arya finds out about it. 

268
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,760
And so we have a connection with
this plot line to Arya. 

269
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,880
And as we've discussed in the 
past and we'll raise again later

270
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,920
in the episode, it's also 
potential connection to Daenerys

271
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,680
because the other ship was 
making its way through the Step 

272
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,040
Stones. 
And perhaps Denaris or somebody 

273
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,480
else will pass through there and
the news of what's going on in 

274
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,480
the north will trickle to 
Denaris and that will be perhaps

275
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,760
the thing that gets her to go 
north. 

276
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,280
And I gotta say, a connection 
like this in the first book 

277
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,840
maybe you write off is something
that George planted but didn't 

278
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,200
harvest. 
Yeah. 

279
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,160
But at this point, these 
connections, I feel like they've

280
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,080
got to be meaningful. 
Yeah, I don't think he's doing 

281
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,520
this randomly now, you know? 
Yeah, it's more it's you're 

282
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:04,880
right. 
It's more it's the product of 

283
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,560
more recent planning and 
plotting out for for the plots. 

284
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,960
Yeah, exactly. 
So if you think about it that 

285
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,560
way that's why the you could 
argue that the prophecy somewhat

286
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,200
came true for some of these 
people. 

287
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,440
Because the small the one ship, 
the Good Heart. 

288
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,040
There's the Good Heart and the 
Elephant. 

289
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,240
These are the two slave ships 
that took a bunch of free folk 

290
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,760
slaves from Hardhome and and and
slipped away before the Nights 

291
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,000
Watch even showed up. 
One of the ships like I said is 

292
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,920
in this is making its way 
through the step zones and might

293
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,440
be picked up by Orane Waters or 
any number of people. 

294
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,520
Salador Sanz people, who knows. 
But the other one ended up in 

295
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,400
Bravos. 
Like we said, they will probably

296
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,880
have a good fate. 
This might be the the the one 

297
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,720
example of the potential 
possible exception to people 

298
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,800
getting taken off into slavery 
or starving or whatever because 

299
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,640
Braavos is aggressively anti 
slavery so they're relatively 

300
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,800
safe. 
They might not have a good life 

301
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,120
there, but they won't be 
enslaved. 

302
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,720
They might be poor and they 
might be in poverty. 

303
00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,480
In fact it's pretty likely for a
lot of them. 

304
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,360
But some of them will find jobs,
employment, what, what have you.

305
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,560
And they're living in a warmer 
place than they were. 

306
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,240
They're not going to be killed 
by the others, They're not going

307
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,920
to be eaten by giants. 
So it's definitely a massive 

308
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,880
improvement on their fortunes 
and and especially when you 

309
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,120
compare it to the rest of them 
who are either still there or 

310
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,440
did get carried off into 
slavery. 

311
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,960
But a lot of that is what we 
will hone in more. 

312
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,680
And on the second-half of the 
episode, let's cast our gaze 

313
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,400
back in time to discuss both the
history of the place and just 

314
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,520
its geography, its layout, the 
place, what it means, why it was

315
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,600
selected for a placed a 
habitable location in the 1st 

316
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,680
place, and let's get on it with 
a quote. 

317
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,200
Hardholm sits on a sheltered Bay
and has a natural harbor deep 

318
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,400
enough for the biggest ships 
afloat. 

319
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,520
Wood and stone are plentiful 
near there. 

320
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,200
The waters teem with fish, and 
there are colonies of seals and 

321
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,920
sea cows close at hand. 
Now, sea cows. 

322
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,080
I think that means walrus, but 
it might mean like, I think it 

323
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,880
has to be walrus, because I know
sometimes sea cows are manatees,

324
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,599
but manatees wouldn't live in 
that climate, so that can't be 

325
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,160
it. 
I think that's walrus and 

326
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,800
walruses are there's blubber, 
there's meat, there's tusks. 

327
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,119
It's very useful. 
This is George's fantasy world. 

328
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,319
They might just be sea cows. 
Yeah, sea cows, yeah, they're 

329
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:20,400
just little bovine, undersea, 
bovine swimming around. 

330
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,359
Yeah, So we, we should have a 
map shot here. 

331
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,720
It sits on the East Coast of 
Storolds Point which is a nice 

332
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,600
little outcrop of land there. 
On the the East Coast of the 

333
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,360
lands, beyond the wall. 
I don't know who store old is, 

334
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,280
but he has a point and there it 
is. 

335
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,040
It sits near vast forest as as 
it says there, there's mountains

336
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,200
nearby. 
We know that given the mention 

337
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,280
of caves and cliffs, the 
screaming caves that we'll talk 

338
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:48,720
about. 
Not to mention the likely 

339
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,680
volcanic activity which just 
probably made it more fertile 

340
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:52,720
too. 
That's one thing we've learned 

341
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,720
about volcanoes over our studies
and and talking about volcanoes 

342
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,640
and a variety of scenarios like 
Dragonstone and Valyria that 

343
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,160
might be plantable. 
Not that the free folk do much 

344
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,040
of that, but were it to have 
developed to that point, it 

345
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,920
might have been a place where 
agriculture or at least grazing 

346
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,880
could take place effectively. 
So you can see why people live 

347
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,800
there. 
Space, a huge harbor. 

348
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,160
That's really important because 
that's the kind of thing that 

349
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,240
brings trade from all over 
because any sort of ship can get

350
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,680
close and unload and it's easy 
to do that. 

351
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:25,760
The hunting and fishing of 
course was mentioned. 

352
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,720
The agricultural potential 
mining, like I said, there's 

353
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,360
probably that. 
Given there's the cliffs and and

354
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:33,720
mountains, there's probably 
something. 

355
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,320
There may not be anything super 
valuable like gold, but there's 

356
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,920
probably something and there's 
stone itself is valuable 

357
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,160
quarries or even that is useful.
So if you magically scooped up 

358
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,000
the that location and placed it 
South of the Wall 1000 years 

359
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,440
ago, it would be a city. 
It's so nice. 

360
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,600
It's it's because that is what 
almost happened in much worse 

361
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,600
conditions in the, you know, far
north, like trading partners 

362
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,440
they would have had trade with. 
Not just E Watch 'cause we know 

363
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,360
the Rangers trade with the 
Nights Watch, or we know the 

364
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,280
Rangers trade with the free 
folk, or at least they have in 

365
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,080
the past. 
They don't trade them weapons, 

366
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,400
but they trade them furs and 
amber and other things that are 

367
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,400
of use, you know, maybe fishing 
hooks or who knows? 

368
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,480
Maybe just food sometimes. 
Yeah, why not? 

369
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:13,880
Often times, probably. 
Stuff, yeah. 

370
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,560
And dragon glass could be given 
in trade to the Nights Watch. 

371
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,440
Things like that. 
There's lots of useful stuff. 

372
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,680
In fact, that would be when I 
was talking about what things 

373
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,080
that might be mineable up there.
Very likely dragon glass in that

374
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,320
area is is available to some 
setup work would probably need 

375
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:31,120
to be done. 
Can't. 

376
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:35,200
Just like hop off a boat and 
start harvesting dragon dragon 

377
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,640
glass. 
But you know it's probably there

378
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,360
so like Bravos is nearby like 
the Ebenez probably would come 

379
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,480
there there's a lot of you know 
there'd be a lot of would could 

380
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,600
a lot of potential for traffic 
had that gotten going. 

381
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,400
I'm. 
Going to throw a couple of 

382
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,200
things out there when we first 
started researching, when I 

383
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,200
first started reaching this and 
when I knew we were doing this 

384
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,400
episode, I was in the back of my
mind. 

385
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,920
I was like, I wonder if those 
howling caves and all this fiery

386
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,840
destruction there could be 
related to some sort of volcanic

387
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,360
activity, if maybe some. 
There's some water underground 

388
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:05,680
that got exposed to lava, and 
sure enough, that's exactly what

389
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,720
was inspiring George. 
But another piece of this 

390
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,120
thought is that if they had some
sort of underground warmth, warm

391
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,600
water or some sort, that might 
have been another reason that 

392
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,240
people would live. 
There would have been this extra

393
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,840
sort of unique resource, kind of
like Winterfell. 

394
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,080
Absolutely. 
Great call. 

395
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,160
Yeah, absolutely. 
And maybe this is a little 

396
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,200
stretch, but if hard Cone could 
blow up, could Winterfell blow 

397
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:27,520
up? 
You know, I don't know. 

398
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,520
I don't know. 
I don't know that there's, Well,

399
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,040
yeah, I mean, I guess it's 
technically possible. 

400
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,800
Who can say like that's? 
I don't. 

401
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,320
I don't think there's enough 
mountains nearby. 

402
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,200
But there, you know, some crazy 
things happen sometimes. 

403
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,560
Yeah, that would be wild. 
Now it looks like we got a 

404
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,120
couple of people here that that 
added some info for us. 

405
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,400
Lollotov and guilty Undertaker 
both point out that there was a 

406
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,080
manatee relative that lived in 
the Bering Sea called the 

407
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,200
Stellar's Sea Cow, but they were
haunted to extinction within a 

408
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,840
few decades of their discovery 
by Europeans. 

409
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,040
Dang it, Europeans. 
There are no Europeans in 

410
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,240
Hardholm, so. 
But no, we did have some other 

411
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,760
people in the chat who said, 
yeah, though, that was that when

412
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,080
they heard sea cow, they thought
of the Stellar sea cow in this, 

413
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,360
yeah, cold water manatee. 
We'll score one for our very 

414
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,800
knowledgeable chatters that we 
could call right there. 

415
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,160
So that quote said halfway to 
becoming a town and quote the 

416
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:16,760
only settlement approaching a 
town. 

417
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,600
What does that mean? 
I don't mean the halfway part. 

418
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:25,440
Well, I kind of do, but like 
what steps were not yet taken or

419
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,400
what had not been achieved, what
hurdles had not been overcome, 

420
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,040
and how many people does that 
mean? 

421
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,160
You know, what is halfway to a 
town in terms of population like

422
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,640
23400? 
I've looked this up. 

423
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,920
There is no universal definition
for what makes a town or a 

424
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,920
village where. 
There are some attempts at 

425
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,520
codifying this, but it's a it's 
a ridiculous endeavor in some 

426
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,240
ways I like. 
I appreciate any attempts to 

427
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,760
standardize certain things that 
aren't like a matter of personal

428
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,520
belief, you know, But this has 
been done so many different ways

429
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,680
by so many different cultures in
in history. 

430
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,200
It's not like you can just start
over with a met with some new 

431
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,480
system, you know. 
In my mind, I'll tell you at 

432
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,880
least a piece of what makes a 
town and there are a lot of 

433
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,320
factors 'cause I think the just 
the straight population is 1, 

434
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,480
but even that, it's got to be 
the population per square acre 

435
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,200
or. 
Whatever, the density has to be 

436
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,320
included in it, right? 
That's it's a piece of it, the 

437
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,080
straight population, the density
of the population. 

438
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,880
But I think maybe even more key 
than those connected to all 

439
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:25,840
those. 
So is it? 

440
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,480
There are people who aren't 
responsible for producing their 

441
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,800
own food. 
There's enough food being 

442
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,440
produced by the population in 
general that some people start 

443
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,320
to specialize in being 
blacksmiths or horse traders or 

444
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:40,560
on and ONS. 
That makes sense. 

445
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,480
Yeah, specialty specialization 
is one thing that city brings, 

446
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,080
yes. 
Or towns Or villages, Yes. 

447
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,320
Close, close knit societies or 
living arrangements enable that.

448
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,880
Yeah, that's a very good way to 
think about it. 

449
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,000
So in some ways they had this. 
They wouldn't have had a lot of 

450
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,920
close by land routes with trade,
lots of trade, but they would 

451
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,800
have had a lot of potential ship
trade or at least a decent 

452
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,520
amount of that and not a huge 
population to feed. 

453
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,720
You know it's large for beyond 
the wall but if we're talking a 

454
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,560
few 100 people, that's not some 
massive amount of food they're 

455
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:10,880
having to find on a regular 
basis. 

456
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,800
But it is significant that's 
still that's that would still 

457
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,560
matter. 
And they may be able to get 

458
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,880
massive amounts of food if 
they're able to fish and hunt. 

459
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,400
You know different other larger 
sea creatures can provide more 

460
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,080
food and if there's more fertile
land from the volcanic area 

461
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,000
around, you know who knows 
thousands of millions of years 

462
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,400
past might have made this land 
more fertile and maybe if they 

463
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,040
even had some worm in neck 
mechanism underneath to get them

464
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,360
more water or more better crop 
production and so on. 

465
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:38,720
I I don't think it's hard to 
believe that they were making a 

466
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,360
lot of food and had AI think it 
might be more. 

467
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,320
I think Nina made some comments 
in our document that for better 

468
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,720
or worse they had this split 
power and that no one entity was

469
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,360
strong enough to completely hold
hard home, at least not yet. 

470
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:55,080
But it was big enough for four 
different people to be sharing 

471
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,160
power. 
So that means I don't think it 

472
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,520
could have been like 38 or even 
380. 

473
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,760
I think if 4-4 different 
chieftains. 

474
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,560
I think that one implies that 
there was a good number of 

475
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,160
people and a good number of 
resources, but also maybe that 

476
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,240
it was a little spread out to. 
It wasn't quite dense enough to 

477
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,840
be able to control all of it. 
It was spread out a little. 

478
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,160
But but you know over time that 
would grow. 

479
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,680
If it hadn't been curtailed, 
that probably would have grown 

480
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,640
into it's all a town, if not a 
city. 

481
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:20,680
Agree. 
Yeah, definitely. 

482
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,120
And and and in some ways it's. 
I don't want to go too far this 

483
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,840
comparison, but I want to think 
of Ashai and how Ashai you could

484
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,320
make lots of money by delivering
food there because they have 

485
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,040
tons of golden gems but hardly 
any food. 

486
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000
So like the price of golden gems
drops massively and the price of

487
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,120
food was way up. 
And that's to a lesser extent 

488
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:39,680
what would happen there. 
Now they might have, like you 

489
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,760
said, might have plenty of local
food. 

490
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,000
It might not be much of an 
issue, but in winter and in 

491
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,880
other times where it's hard, 
people could probably make a lot

492
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,720
of money bringing food there and
trading it for dragonglass and 

493
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,480
fur and amber and things that 
are they that relatively 

494
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,360
plentiful there. 
That'll be rare in other parts 

495
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:54,000
of the world. 
People. 

496
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,840
Someone like Valyrians might pay
a lot for some of that stuff 

497
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,120
just because it's rare, you 
know, like, oh, it's like you 

498
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,880
got rich people that want to own
things from far away places, you

499
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,360
know, And it's like, oh, this is
an exotic, this is weirwood from

500
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:07,520
beyond the wall. 
Like, oh ah, you know, they're 

501
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,080
having their dinner party and 
people could be, like, all 

502
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,600
entranced and bedazzled by these
faraway objects. 

503
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,960
That's why the world becomes 
interconnected people. 

504
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,320
That's why ships wanted to sail 
around Africa and Marco Polo 

505
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,560
wanted to go to China. 
And sometimes it is almost like 

506
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,640
prestige thing to have something
rare, but sometimes there's just

507
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,640
some food that doesn't grow 
around any pepper or you know, 

508
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,080
some something that usually for 
most of history people were just

509
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,040
eating the food that could grow 
right around them and it was a 

510
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,560
very limited diet. 
And now we get, you know, sushi 

511
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,760
for lunch and lasagna for 
dinner, and I think twice about 

512
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,160
it, but imagine how special it 
would be to have some unique new

513
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,480
food. 
And if I don't know if it would 

514
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,680
have been necessarily food 
coming from hard home, but it 

515
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,800
doesn't necessarily have to be a
a royal prestige thing. 

516
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,920
Wine, as simple as that. 
Wine. 

517
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,800
They don't, they cannot make 
grapes up there. 

518
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,560
And they love wine. 
Like this is a consistent thing 

519
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,400
with like one, one love the 
wine. 

520
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,120
Like Manson and Torment were 
like, oh, that's the one thing 

521
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:08,920
they do really well, is that 
wine. 

522
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:10,520
That's the one thing they'll 
like. 

523
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,960
They denigrate everything, like 
actually, but their wine is 

524
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,320
good. 
That's the one thing that we 

525
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,200
like. 
So Nina, yeah, like you said, 

526
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,680
Nina pointed out a smart thing 
here, which is that the 

527
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,440
consistency of the South is what
enables towns like you have 

528
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,240
families that have existed in 
held land for generations, if 

529
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,160
not thousands of years. 
And that consistency of 

530
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,800
leadership has enabled the 
stability of those towns. 

531
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,280
Like Duskendale has been there a
long time and it for the most 

532
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,800
part has been stable and has 
been led by the same people, 

533
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,680
Barrowton, very similar White 
Harbor, all these places have, 

534
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,520
they haven't really changed 
hands, right? 

535
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,160
Maybe temporarily, but they've 
been very stable. 

536
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,040
Hardhome doesn't have that 
stability because it doesn't 

537
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,160
have this large government body 
sort of protecting it and 

538
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,880
keeping it stable, keeping that 
bottom line. 

539
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,960
Establishing rules. 
People know what they can count 

540
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,480
on. 
They they're confident that if I

541
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,880
if I build this farm, I'm only 
going to be taxed X percent. 

542
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,280
And if I get attacked by 
bandits, the local Lords will 

543
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,200
send protection to me and you. 
You know you can be sure of 

544
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,520
what's going to happen with your
plans and your family and your 

545
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,040
land and such. 
Absolutely. 

546
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,440
So let's move on. 
Let's have let's get a take a 

547
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,560
quote here from a maester and 
unfortunately we don't know when

548
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,720
this was, but it's pretty cool 
quote. 

549
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,680
It went so bad to know when this
was, by the way. 

550
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:25,440
I know. 
Me too. 

551
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,920
It's just we have no idea. 
A most fascinating account of 

552
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,560
Hardhome can be found in Maester
Willis's Hardhome, an account of

553
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,640
three years spent beyond the 
Wall among Savages, Raiders, and

554
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,200
Woods Witches. 
Willis journeyed to Hardholm on 

555
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,640
a Pentoshi traitor and 
established himself there as a 

556
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,320
healer and counsellor so that he
might write of their customs. 

557
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,000
He was given the protection of 
Gorm the Wolf, a Chieftain who 

558
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,120
shared control of Hardholm with 
three other chiefs. 

559
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,960
Can I just say I love hearing 
about maesters doing 

560
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,320
ethnographies? 
That is so cool. 

561
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,320
This is way cooler than the 
Maesters, who spend their entire

562
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,600
career at the Citadel and don't 
have much, like, field 

563
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,160
experience. 
This guy is like, Oh no, I'm in 

564
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,080
the this is like, this is an 
arc. 

565
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,400
This is Indiana Jones. 
Yeah, I know. 

566
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,840
Yeah, this. 
This this guy, I mean, he 

567
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,000
literally embedded himself into 
the community so that he could. 

568
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,600
He could be a part of it rather 
than. 

569
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,560
Just study it in the park. 
Yeah, he did it right. 

570
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,040
Anyway, a lot of respect to 
Maester Willis. 

571
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,920
Yeah, we like Maester Willis. 
We stand, Maester. 

572
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,880
Willis, although he does title 
his his ethnography among 

573
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,480
Savages Raiders so so. 
That was just this clickbait 

574
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,440
title to get Southerners to read
it, yeah. 

575
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,320
I don't think that title would 
have passed, yeah. 

576
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,440
Well, none of the people beyond 
the Wall could read anyway. 

577
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,480
They're like, what is that a 
book like? 

578
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,320
Yeah, it's like, what does it 
say? 

579
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,320
It says I love what I love The 
free folk. 

580
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,080
That's what the title is. 
The Free Folk are the Best 

581
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,040
people in the world, is what? 
It's yeah, no, you got to start 

582
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,760
with the savages. 
You got to got to pull them in 

583
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,680
like yeah, we are like what do? 
You mean that's not it's it's 

584
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,040
like modern PC culture. 
Like what do you mean savages? 

585
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,800
That's not an insult. 
We are savages. 

586
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,880
What do you talk about, say, 
someone might take pride in? 

587
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,240
Savagery. 
Yeah. 

588
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,840
Like, I like it when they call 
me a savage. 

589
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,840
Yeah. 
I was like, yeah, it might be an

590
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,880
insult to you, but to him as he 
likes it. 

591
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,640
That's right. 
I'm a wish. 

592
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:16,080
Don't you forget it? 
So does anyone get the vibe that

593
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,160
Gorm the Wolf might have been a 
skin changer? 

594
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,160
I mean, the Wolf, I mean, that's
just a nickname. 

595
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,720
It could be anything. 
But like, maybe he could have 

596
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,720
been, like, might give him a 
little more clout, you know, 

597
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960
might make him a little more 
powerful as the Chieftain, you 

598
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,120
know. 
So he'd go, he went there on a 

599
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,640
Pentachi trailer. 
He went like, from apparently 

600
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,400
from Old Town all the way up 
there. 

601
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,720
Gives you an idea of how many 
trade ships were used to go 

602
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:39,640
there. 
I like that. 

603
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Really seems like it was regular
and normal. 

604
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,000
And things have changed. 
You know, like we said, Hardhome

605
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,680
was destroyed 600 years ago. 
So this story of Willis and 

606
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,200
Gorham is older than that. 
You know, that's all we can say.

607
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,880
It's more than 600 years old. 
So it's not hard to see how 

608
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,960
Gorham would have benefited from
this arrangement. 

609
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,000
Right. 
This is a maester. 

610
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,640
We're talking about a maester. 
He knows how to heal, and he 

611
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,920
knows things about science and 
lots of knowledge that Gorm 

612
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,560
could benefit from. 
And yeah, that seems useful to 

613
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,160
have. 
I mean, it doesn't help much, 

614
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,760
but it does narrow the time down
somewhat. 

615
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,000
Knowing that it was a Maester, 
it had to be, since there were 

616
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,800
Maesters. 
Although maesters have been 

617
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,920
around a long time, but yeah, 
you're you're right. 

618
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,840
So this is this isn't like 8000 
years ago, but. 

619
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,320
Somewhere between 600 years and 
6000. 

620
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,160
Years you narrowed it down. 
But man, imagine if it was, you 

621
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,800
know, I don't know, 600, 30 
years, right? 

622
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,000
Like, because we know he tries 
to go back. 

623
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,400
And I it may be just out of 
curiosity, but I I also I can't 

624
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,480
help but wonder if if he came 
back and compared notes with 

625
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,360
something at the Citadel and 
realized, oh crap, every 600 

626
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,640
years a volcano goes off in 
hard. 

627
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,520
On you know something like that 
if he piece. 

628
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,080
Something together and realize 
something might be happening 

629
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,800
there and you need to go do 
something about it. 

630
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,640
Or maybe value Dragon Glass, or 
who knows? 

631
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Who knows? 
Imagine if volcanoes were 

632
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,520
cyclical like that, like every 
600 years just going to go time 

633
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,160
to move. 
It's 599 years, so we. 

634
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,760
Would wait till the 590. 9th 
year, Yeah, people would wait 

635
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,000
till the last minute. 
Yeah, it's like maybe, you know,

636
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,760
it could be early. 
Y'all, you might want to get 

637
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,440
moving. 
Like how sure are you of that 

638
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,880
calendar? 
Like 600 years is a long time 

639
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,600
for something to get off there. 
So yeah, so obviously Gorman 

640
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,440
could benefit from having a 
master on his side, just the 

641
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,800
healing part, let alone the 
other knowledge of maybe metal 

642
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,120
urgy or who knows what other 
specialties this master had or 

643
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,080
what else he had studied. 
And what does Gorm have to do? 

644
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,160
Just give the guy a place to 
sleep and some food and his 

645
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,880
protection, which he already 
presumably that's not hard for 

646
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,840
him. 
Like we know wildling leaders 

647
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,480
lead by strength. 
They follow powerful leaders. 

648
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,360
There's very little reason to 
doubt it was different 700 years

649
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,080
ago or however longer this was. 
So in fact, it may have been 

650
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,080
more like that. 
How, if that's even possible, to

651
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,120
be more like that. 
But so yeah, so good. 

652
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,080
A good mutually beneficial 
arrangement, I think. 

653
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,960
Yeah, it would have been an 
interesting novelty for for the 

654
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,960
town and for Gorham. 
Like, certainly there'd be a mix

655
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,320
of opinions, but I'm thinking 
about Ragnar and the priest that

656
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,800
he kind of took under his wing. 
Oh, from Vikings, Yeah, Yeah, 

657
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,880
yeah, yeah. 
That is kind of similar, yeah. 

658
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,800
Where the person kind of learns 
to get along and everybody knows

659
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,200
not to mess with him, 'cause 
then you have to mess with Gorm 

660
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,640
or Ragnar or whatever. 
You're like, yeah, don't mess 

661
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,400
with that guy, so. 
But the insights and stories, 

662
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,000
just like he, just like the 
maestro, wants to bring all this

663
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,800
knowledge back home and it'll be
interesting and novel and to 

664
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,360
everyone, he gets to bring 
knowledge to them too. 

665
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,280
They would, yeah. 
Would also be entertained and 

666
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,400
intrigued by you. 
Know to to continue using 

667
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,080
examples from other fandoms and 
other properties like picture 

668
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,360
C3PO telling stories to the 
Ewoks like this Maester would 

669
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,520
have some stories to tell they 
would appreciate and he would 

670
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,200
have they would like you said 
they would have stories to tell 

671
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,960
him that he would be like 
wrapped and trying to write it 

672
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,160
all down and be like yeah this 
is good stuff. 

673
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,400
So this arrangement of four 
chiefs ruling Hardhome. 

674
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,760
It seems like that was probably 
normal. 

675
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,760
The way it's written it seemed 
like it was a standard division.

676
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,560
Maybe it wasn't always 4, but 
maybe that was normal. 

677
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,160
Ish. 
Until we hear otherwise. 

678
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,520
That's that's the assumption we 
have to work on. 

679
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,960
But it kind of feels like gangs 
dividing territory, cartels sort

680
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,680
of like unofficially dividing 
what's theirs and what isn't. 

681
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,080
It's not some government that 
has made this division, but it 

682
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,680
is sort of held in place by the 
strength of the the the people 

683
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,840
that are upholding the system in
the 1st place, the the leaders, 

684
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,360
the chiefs, right? 
So it it works in its own way, 

685
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:27,080
but there can be more chaos or a
churn to use the Expanse as yet 

686
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,640
another when when there's a 
change at the top it can be, it 

687
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,520
can be a lot of trickle down 
violence. 

688
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,920
There would be less stability 
over generations, which is would

689
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,880
hold it back from growing into a
bigger town or city. 

690
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,480
But I think it arose because 
there were so many resources 

691
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,920
there, it attracted so many 
people, and I think eventually 

692
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,680
those four chieftains would have
evolved into something more 

693
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,160
centralized. 
Yeah, quite possibly. 

694
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,720
Like a like a coming things like
a king beyond the wall. 

695
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,880
If you can have a king beyond 
the wall, if that can happen, 

696
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,080
then surely someone can seize 
full control of Hardhome. 

697
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,440
You know, it just apparently 
just didn't happen. 

698
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,680
It would probably take war, 
probably take some time. 

699
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,800
There'd be some back and forth 
conflicts, but. 

700
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,000
Which might look a bit like some
of the examples used before. 

701
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,800
It might look like of 1 cartel 
gaining dominance over a region 

702
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,360
where previously several cartels
did or like gang turf wars kind 

703
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,520
of thing. 
And by the way, it might also 

704
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,400
look like, I don't know, half of
Westeros hundreds or thousands 

705
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,679
of years ago too, right? 
Yeah. 

706
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,920
Depending on how long those. 
Ones through these struggles of 

707
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,080
control and dominance and back 
and forth. 

708
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,199
You know, Yeah, 'cause back in 
the days of seven or dozens or 

709
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:32,520
100 kingdoms, there was lots and
lots of war. 

710
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:36,440
You may have had regions of 
pockets of peace and areas that 

711
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,880
were relatively safe, but maybe 
not a lot of those. 

712
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,679
Another thing I think of is like
the pirate cities of pirate 

713
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:46,120
towns of the, say of different 
places around the world. 

714
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,880
Usually like we think of in 
America, we often think of the 

715
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,800
Caribbean 'cause that's where 
piracy in this part of the world

716
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,239
had its peak. 
But there would be other places 

717
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,280
like Madagascar and the Red Sea 
where piracy was, was big and 

718
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,920
there were pirate spots that 
have fences and bars and 

719
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,400
brothels and all that sort of 
thing. 

720
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,080
Black Sails is a good show that 
that shows a lot of that semi 

721
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,760
historically accurate there. 
So they'd be safer in a lot of 

722
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,560
ways and and less safe in other 
ways. 

723
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,520
Like it's it's sort of the 
difference between like a black 

724
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,680
market and you know a market 
that's heavily given laws and 

725
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,080
and restrictions and stuff like 
that. 

726
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,240
In some ways that makes it 
better in some ways you know 

727
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,840
depending. 
So you might like if Davos lived

728
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,960
in that era, he'd have 
definitely gone to hard home and

729
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,200
traded there. 
He might have been frequently. 

730
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,240
In fact when he in his in his 
youth, he did that anyway as a 

731
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:38,040
as a sailor from someone else's 
ship. 

732
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,880
So it's a very safe assumption. 
So I tried to imagine this place

733
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,440
at its peak, whatever that was. 
We don't know what its peak was.

734
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,960
We tried to guess like several 
100 people, maybe 1000 people, 

735
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,400
maybe more. 
I do really do picture people 

736
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,600
coming from all over the globe. 
Maybe even as far as Ashai, 

737
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,280
maybe even as far. 
Maybe even farther. 

738
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,360
I don't know. 
But Valyria? 

739
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,040
Sure, why not? 
Valyria would come there. 

740
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,400
They like dragon glass, jewelry,
amber Ware. 

741
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,280
Would there be stuff, Furs, 
exotic things? 

742
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,560
Maybe even the occasional rugged
adventurer type would go there 

743
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,560
from Valyria. 
Like sail their fancy Valyrian 

744
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,080
ship with their retainers and do
stuff, I don't know, go hunting 

745
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,520
in the woods beyond the wall. 
I want to hunt bear beyond the 

746
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,320
wall. 
You know, you never know what 

747
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,000
these, like, ultra rich people 
are going to want to do for fun,

748
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,680
right? 
Just ask the Sea snake. 

749
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,920
You see, good example. 
The sea snake did go there. 

750
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,760
That's a very good example. 
Of course he went after it was 

751
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,320
destroyed, so we don't know. 
You know, he's not a good 

752
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,920
example of someone that would 
have seen it at its peak, but 

753
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,480
still. 
He is, but he's still a good 

754
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,760
example. 
Kind of like Davos. 

755
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,560
Even after it was destroyed, 
they still went there. 

756
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,280
So like would have gone 
beforehand. 

757
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,440
Absolutely, Yeah. 
So you're you're very right. 

758
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,560
So let's imagine a city that 
existed more than 600 years ago,

759
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,480
and they probably did trade with
Hardhome. 

760
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,280
It's just kind of hard to 
imagine Hardhome to imagine that

761
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,600
this place was bustling like 
that there were ships just 

762
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,240
sailing up there. 
But this we have every reason to

763
00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,800
believe that was the case. 
Just like mammoth pelts or 

764
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,800
giants bones. 
Like there really are a lot of 

765
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,320
cool stuff that people, rich 
people that collect things, 

766
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,680
would want unique things very. 
It's not just, yeah, we we you 

767
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,160
can't. 
You can easily underestimate 

768
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:14,800
that because the free folk are 
poor. 

769
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,680
That doesn't, you know, those 
things. 

770
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,080
You can't spend those things, 
you know. 

771
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,400
But the right collector comes 
along and was willing to pay a 

772
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,400
lot for some of those things. 
And but with Hardhome having a 

773
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,320
port, that was possible. 
Now they're they, where are they

774
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,000
going to go? 
I want to buy your mammoth 

775
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,680
bones, but I have no idea where 
to go for. 

776
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,120
There's no market for this. 
Yeah. 

777
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,720
So the constant warring amongst 
the free folk was also President

778
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:42,160
Hardhome, we're told This is 
kind of how the tale of Maester 

779
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,480
Willis wound down, quote. 
When Gorham was murdered in a 

780
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,080
drunken brawl, however, Willis 
found himself in mortal danger 

781
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,920
and made his way back to Old 
Town. 

782
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:58,600
There he set down his account, 
only to vanish the year after 

783
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,560
the Illuminations were done. 
It was said in the Citadel that 

784
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,360
he was last seen at the docks 
looking for a ship that would 

785
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,120
take him to East Watch by the 
sea. 

786
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,080
So his maasterly duty, his oath 
kind of brought him back to 

787
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,040
record his knowledge and pass it
down to future generations, 

788
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,360
which is basically the it's kind
of the oath of the historian 

789
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,800
there that's kind of your, your 
quote UN quote job. 

790
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,480
But once that was done, once he 
did his duty, he's like my heart

791
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,880
is calling you back. 
Dances with wildlings. 

792
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,120
This is what I'm thinking here, 
Nina, says Sorella. 

793
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,760
When Oberyn took her Tyene and 
Ariana to a long, abandoned town

794
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,680
in Dorne, Sorella turned over 
rocks and brushed sand up the 

795
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,680
mosaics, wanted to know 
everything about the people who 

796
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,520
lived there. 
Was very curious about history. 

797
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,720
Yeah. 
So yeah, Willis as well, He 

798
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:46,360
wants to know all the stuff. 
This is his. 

799
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,160
This is his life's interest. 
John, too. 

800
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,800
I mean John also has this sort 
of has that understood that call

801
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,760
of of beyond the wall. 
He he lived with the free folk 

802
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,240
and he liked it. 
He respected them and ultimately

803
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:04,280
his duty was more powerful. 
But who knows where his story 

804
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,040
will end up. 
Obviously if you look at the TV 

805
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,680
show that's that is where he 
ended up. 

806
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,440
Mance Raider another example 
born to the watch but felt the 

807
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,520
call became the king beyond the 
wall, but felt it big time. 

808
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,640
Called the Wild, called the 
Wildlings. 

809
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,600
Yes, exactly. 
Yeah, right. 

810
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,280
So as we have said, this is 
maybe even Nina wants to shout 

811
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,400
out Maester Willis. 
This is the order of maesters in

812
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,400
its purest and best form. 
People who genuinely love study 

813
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,400
and knowledge and want to share 
their expertise with future 

814
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,600
generations. 
Yeah, we we all love this guy. 

815
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Three cheers for Maester Willis.
I mean the the only other guy I 

816
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,720
can think of that's really like 
this is Marwin. 

817
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:49,840
Like Marwin, just like, oh, 
that's what happened. 

818
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,960
I'm getting on a ship right now 
and leaving, like he's ready to 

819
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,120
go to sail across the world at 
the drop of a hat that is so the

820
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,240
opposite of, well, just most 
people, not just maesters, but 

821
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,040
just everyone, really. 
Like, very few people are like 

822
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,000
that. 
Like, yeah, I just got back. 

823
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,840
I'm going across the world. 
I'm out of here. 

824
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,760
I'm headed back to, like, 
Slaver's Bay. 

825
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,680
Just there's a ship. 
I'm going now. 

826
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:14,840
Yeah, why waste any time like 
that? 

827
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,920
Takes a special kind of person 
to do that, but. 

828
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,600
I respect it quite a bit. 
So something tells me Maester 

829
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,800
Willis wouldn't have been one of
those maesters saying the giants

830
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,920
are extinct beyond the wall. 
Like, no, he's quite sure 

831
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,800
they're not. 
But again, more than 600 years 

832
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,280
ago. 
So it's not like his writings 

833
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,880
have a lot of bearing on what 
isn't currently extinct anymore.

834
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,640
You know what? 
Any current answer just now, he 

835
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,560
might have had a kid. 
Up there. 

836
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,280
Oh my goodness. 
Couple years, right? 

837
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,440
You're right. 
And the relationship he's 

838
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,640
allowed to, whereas he wouldn't 
have been, that might have been 

839
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,160
part of the reason he wanted to 
go, yeah. 

840
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,760
I still think I like the idea. 
I like the romanticism of him 

841
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,840
being just, you know, a true, a 
true ethnographer, a true 

842
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,760
folklorist. 
A true. 

843
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,320
Yeah, I I like that idea a 
little bit more than that. 

844
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,360
He had personal ties, which also
I think is totally valid it. 

845
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,520
Could have been I. 
Mean. 

846
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,840
It could have been both. 
I'm just saying that when I when

847
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,400
I weighed the options, I decided
to throw that option out because

848
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,640
I personally liked the head 
cannon more than he was. 

849
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,200
Just he was just that 
passionate. 

850
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,360
Right on. 
So many of the same Matrix and 

851
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,040
arch matrix would doubt even 
what Willis wrote because that's

852
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,520
just doesn't fit their world 
view. 

853
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,000
Like they would maybe guess that
he was making things up, or kind

854
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,160
of be skeptical about whether 
some of these things really 

855
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,680
happened. 
That too might have been another

856
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,480
motivation to go back, to bring 
back some proof. 

857
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,800
Like, Oh yeah. 
He might have had to scurry out 

858
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,920
of there quick if there's some 
conflict with The Chieftains. 

859
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,760
He didn't have the same ally. 
He writes all this down and 

860
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,640
manages like get out of here, 
giants. 

861
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,280
And he's like. 
I'll. 

862
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,640
Be right back, but let me bring 
you some some evidence you know.

863
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,920
Yeah, and we see this a lot in A
Song of Ice and Fire. 

864
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,640
There's several characters who 
you could call The Who could fit

865
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,160
into the category of intelligent
and competent skeptic who is 

866
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,600
very much wrong, right? 
Like Maester Lewin or Tyrion. 

867
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,600
Tyrion's a great example. 
He's like snarks and grumpkins, 

868
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,760
blah blah, blah, you know, come 
on. 

869
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,720
But you know. 
But when he went to the wall, he

870
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,080
started, he felt a little 
differently. 

871
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,960
Once he stood atop the wall, he 
planned to pee off the wall, but

872
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,640
he didn't because he was like, 
he was awed by. 

873
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,520
He was too like it felt wrong. 
You know, he's like, wow, 

874
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,800
actually that is vast and scary.
And maybe there are things out 

875
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,600
there and the perfect example of
reading about it on a page 

876
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,560
versus experiencing just a 
sliver of it. 

877
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,960
And it's totally changes how you
think about it. 

878
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,560
So let's talk about what 
happened to it. 

879
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,000
The Doom of Hardhome. 
It's pretty obvious why I call 

880
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,040
it that, because it has a lot in
common with The Doom of Illyria 

881
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,960
on a smaller scale. 
We're not talking about 14 

882
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,720
volcanoes, it appears to be just
one. 

883
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:45,400
But here's what we're told, 
quote. 

884
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,880
Hardhome had been halfway toward
becoming a town, the only true 

885
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,720
town north of the Wall, until 
the night 600 years ago, when 

886
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,560
Hell had swallowed it. 
Its people had been carried off 

887
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,240
into slavery or slaughtered for 
meat, depending on which version

888
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,960
of the tale you believed. 
Their homes and halls consumed 

889
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,480
in a conflagration that burned 
so hot that watchers on the wall

890
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,080
far to the South had thought the
sun was rising in the north. 

891
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:21,520
Afterward, ashes rained down on 
haunted forest and shivering sea

892
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,160
alike. 
For almost half a year, traders 

893
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,840
reported finding only 
nightmarish devastation. 

894
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,480
Where Hardholm had stood, a 
landscape of charred trees and 

895
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,760
burned bones, waters choked with
swollen corpses, blood chilling 

896
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,200
shrieks echoing from The Cave 
mouth that pocked the great 

897
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,440
Cliff that loomed above the 
settlement of. 

898
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,560
Course they don't call it The 
Doom of Hard Home, but you know 

899
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:49,160
it works as a title. 
It's a micro version of that and

900
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,680
it does predate The Doom of 
Valyri. 

901
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,360
Don't forget this was 600 years 
ago as we as it says, where the 

902
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,440
Doom was more like 410. 
So about 200 years apart now, 

903
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,200
Ashes raining down for half a 
year is a very strong giveaway. 

904
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,680
This was a volcano, the visual 
reports of a conflagration, the 

905
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,600
sun rising in the north back 
that up. 

906
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:11,120
Though clearly it wasn't to the 
level of absolute apocalyptic 

907
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,640
devastation. 
It didn't sink the continent 

908
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,800
below the waves or anything like
that. 

909
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,400
And there weren't any 
earthquakes that we know of. 

910
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,960
There might have been some tidal
waves, but we don't hear that. 

911
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,720
It's it's entirely possible if 
not likely. 

912
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:25,480
But they wouldn't necessarily 
have been huge. 

913
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,440
Just something. 
But Despite that, despite all 

914
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,440
the evidence of volcano, it 
doesn't have to be only a 

915
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,760
volcano and we can't just say 
eruption and that covers it. 

916
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,920
It doesn't cover all the bases. 
For example, like what's this 

917
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,040
deal about people carried off 
into slavery or slaughtered for 

918
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,560
me like volcanoes don't do that.
That's that's people do that, 

919
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,160
not volcanoes, right. 
So. 

920
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,200
I chalked that up to follow up 
stories and rumors being told. 

921
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,920
You know, although it it could 
also be partly true. 

922
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,800
Like if there was a community of
sorts there that got mostly 

923
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,920
destroyed, some of the leftover 
people might have ended up being

924
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,880
sold into slavery. 
Or like we here at Hard Home now

925
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,280
that they're eating their own 
dead so. 

926
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,640
You know, it may be just that 
may have looked like the story 

927
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,640
may have come out as outsiders 
came in to to cannibalize them 

928
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,640
where it may have been they just
to were forced into it on their 

929
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,920
own. 
And it could have been like 

930
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,760
opportunistic Skagosi who heard 
about this and we're like, let's

931
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,400
go cook, cook humans. 
That's even better. 

932
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,000
They're already cooked for us. 
And also it's already part of 

933
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,520
culture to kidnap young women. 
If they if they can't stop me, 

934
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,120
then I get it. 
So like we or the rest of 

935
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,880
Westeros or whatever would 
perceive that as taken into 

936
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,000
slavery potentially. 
At least that's right. 

937
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,840
And so it might have just been 
natural fallout of that culture 

938
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,720
up there that we just added our 
own names. 

939
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,240
Plus it gets embellished and 
made more scary. 

940
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,880
Or you know interesting stories 
and rumors and everything you 

941
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,800
know. 
So the the presence of bodies 

942
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,000
alone is interesting though, 
because you would think that if 

943
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,480
it was like lots of lava flow, 
like there wouldn't be any 

944
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,480
bodies left, they would have 
been consumed, right? 

945
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,040
But volcanoes don't always have 
lava. 

946
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,600
That's something that you have 
to divorce from your mind. 

947
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,360
It's not always the case. 
They often do, but not always. 

948
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,240
A lot of eruptions are when 
magma builds up enough pressure 

949
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:11,640
to burst forth and that magma 
becomes lava, but not always 

950
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:13,640
right. 
Here are some contenders for a 

951
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,760
natural explanation. 
A phreatic eruption is when 

952
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,840
magma trapped underground comes 
into contact with an underground

953
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,640
water source. 
So you got hot magma hitting 

954
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,680
water and that creates a huge 
amount of steam and that creates

955
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,440
a new volcano. 
It can come from like flat 

956
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:33,560
ground or just hills because of 
the pressure, but it's the steam

957
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,120
that's escaping, not any sort of
magma or lava, that's what burst

958
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,960
forth. 
So a Friato magmatic eruption is

959
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,480
the same except that some magma 
escapes but in the form of ash. 

960
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,800
And the hard home event is 
characterized by ash falling for

961
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,080
half a year. 
So in my mind, my non volcanic 

962
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,880
scientist, what is that called? 
What is the volcanic scientist 

963
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,440
call? 
I forget it's like a it's a 

964
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,080
Vulcan right? 
Yeah, you're called a Vulcan 

965
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,120
vulcanist. 
Vulcanologist. 

966
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,680
I don't remember. 
Anyway, this seems like a very 

967
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,920
strong contender. 
There's other two contenders 

968
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,360
that I'm aware of, a Plinyan 
eruption, which is like Mount 

969
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,320
Saint Helens or Vesuvius or 
Krakatoa. 

970
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,680
And the reason it's called 
Plinyan is because the famous 

971
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,800
Roman author and natural 
philosopher Pliny the Elder was 

972
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,640
killed in the Vesuvius eruption.
He was trying to save a friend 

973
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,400
and their family apparently, but
he was so out of shape that he, 

974
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,240
he like, collapsed and they 
couldn't pick him up and he just

975
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:29,840
died of the gases. 
Apparently. 

976
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,520
There's a couple different 
accounts of it, so it's similar,

977
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,440
except the sudden steam pressure
that happens from the water in 

978
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,880
the magma comes from gases that 
are already in the magma. 

979
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,560
So there's additional chemistry 
going on there and that causes 

980
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,440
the reaction to be larger and 
that's why you have super heated

981
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440
ash and gas that incinerates 
everything in its path. 

982
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,280
But that's too high a level of 
destruction like something like 

983
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,160
Vesuvius or Krakatoa just left 
nothing. 

984
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,800
It was like just a wasteland 
that's more like the doom this 

985
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,120
there was still bodies and and 
the trees were still there. 

986
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,200
So I mean there was fires, but 
it didn't burn everything. 

987
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:13,040
So there's still ruins, right? 
That's implies A lesser level of

988
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,800
devastation. 
And and or that hard homes spans

989
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,240
a lot of land which is why I 
was. 

990
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:20,480
True might. 
Make it harder to build a 

991
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,080
townscape or why it might have 
had 4 liters, but I I still 

992
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,120
agree with you that I I think it
wasn't quite as massive as the. 

993
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:28,960
Plenium. 
Just just Plenium. 

994
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,160
There was another called a 
Pelion eruption. 

995
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,720
These names are all too similar.
Plenium. 

996
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:33,800
Pelion. 
Yeah. 

997
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,760
This is when a volcanic Dome 
collapses onto itself and then 

998
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,800
shoots everything way up in the 
air and it rains hot. 

999
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,720
Ash and fire powerful enough to 
burn trees and take down walls 

1000
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,400
and stuff. 
But it isn't complete absolute 

1001
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,560
obliteration. 
So that one's a strong contender

1002
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,160
possible, and especially 'cause 
there isn't an active volcano 

1003
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,520
apparently there anymore. 
It does have the screaming caves

1004
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,760
or still vents apparently, but 
anyway, we're not entirely sure.

1005
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:02,760
Just some good examples there. 
Krakatoa had what was called the

1006
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,400
burning ashes of Ketenbang. 
Ketenbang was a city or a town 

1007
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,600
that was wiped out by this and 
it it was hot ash that killed 

1008
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,800
thousands of people. 
Just ash, just super heated ash 

1009
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,080
that killed thousands of people.
An entire island called Sabesi 

1010
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,480
lost its population of 3000 
because of this hot ash. 

1011
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,960
So this is, this is very similar
to what took out Hardhome and 

1012
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,520
this is where it gets really 
insane and where you could see 

1013
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,920
like imagine this on a in a 
superstitious society or any 

1014
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,520
society, what would this look 
like to you? 

1015
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:37,400
OK, so a year later, a year 
later, volcanic rafts made of 

1016
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,240
pumice so that the the, the 
lava, the magma hits the water 

1017
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,240
and it solidifies and it doesn't
necessarily sink because it's 

1018
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,880
porous enough and soft enough 
turns into basically a raft. 

1019
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,360
Rafts of these pumice were made 
after Krakatoa and started 

1020
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,480
floating W many of them turned 
up on the East Coast of Africa a

1021
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,840
year later. 
Some of them had skeletons on 

1022
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,040
them. 
Picture that you're just sitting

1023
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,800
there hanging out on the beach, 
fishing, whatever, and pumice, 

1024
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:10,320
like black rafts with skeletons 
just float up on you out of 

1025
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,160
nowhere. 
Like, what are you going to 

1026
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,840
think like? 
This is one of those examples 

1027
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,960
of, yeah, George R Martin 
doesn't need to invent anything 

1028
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,080
for this. 
That sounds like fantasy, but 

1029
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,160
it's real world. 
And God forbid if it was a full 

1030
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,520
moon or. 
A solar eclipse or something? 

1031
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,760
Within that same week or a. 
Comet had passed by like, oh 

1032
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,520
man, yeah, good luck. 
I've I've forgotten some of the 

1033
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,520
names some of the the words to 
describe this. 

1034
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,560
But another thing that can 
happen with the volcano is it 

1035
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:44,040
you know as the the lava and and
resulting land flow. 

1036
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,520
You know it's up to it's 
sometimes water's involved. 

1037
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,360
It can just push all this mass 
of earth and material trees and 

1038
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,960
dirt and everything into the 
water and it can be congealed 

1039
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,200
and buoyant enough to float. 
And I seem to remember that 

1040
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,480
there was a volcano that made 
one of these. 

1041
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,920
There's a word for this and it 
was like, it was like a square 

1042
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,720
mile and it floated like 
hundreds of miles away, too. 

1043
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:14,080
Like it's just crazy. 
The the weird things that 

1044
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:19,840
volcanoes can cause and how 
people in less educated times or

1045
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,400
areas would have interpreted 
this, what it would have meant, 

1046
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,480
you know? 
And then add that to this world 

1047
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,480
where there really is magic, 
there is magic and Dragons. 

1048
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,200
For that. 
Right. 

1049
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,680
And and we're sort of like 
thinking about the real world 

1050
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,040
things that could have caused 
this. 

1051
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,720
And Martin was even inspired by 
a real world thing that caused a

1052
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:41,400
similar thing with the howling 
caves and all. 

1053
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,240
But it doesn't mean in this 
world there couldn't have also 

1054
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:48,680
been something mystical mixed up
in yes, absolutely like or came.

1055
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,120
From The Doom, we even make the 
same sort of guesses that seem 

1056
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,000
very valid. 
Yeah, and so when you hear a 

1057
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,840
rat's description of Hard Home, 
it sounds all crazy and and 

1058
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,880
fantastical. 
It's not that different from the

1059
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,080
descriptions of Krakatoa. 
And in fact, there's nothing as 

1060
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,440
crazy as the pumice boats crewed
by skeletons. 

1061
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,520
You know, in George's 
description. 

1062
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,720
Like, I don't think anything 
will arises to that level of 

1063
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:13,320
what? 
Yeah, so the screaming caves, 

1064
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:14,560
The Howling caves, What about 
that? 

1065
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,960
What's the explanation for that?
Well, let's start with a quote. 

1066
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:22,400
Cotter Pike's galleys sail past 
Hardhome from time to time. 

1067
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,160
He tells me. 
There is no shelter there but 

1068
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,880
the caves, the screaming caves, 
his men called them. 

1069
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,760
So the screaming caves from the 
caves could be steamed so they 

1070
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,360
should be maybe called steaming 
caves. 

1071
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,360
Shout out to nobody suspects the
butterfly. 

1072
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,960
Nina reminded me of this post 
that she did way back when and 

1073
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,840
it was very informative and and 
I followed up on it and added to

1074
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,280
it. 
I learned some more extend 

1075
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,880
beyond this so that was that was
a good time. 

1076
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,720
Back in 2004 on the westeros.org
forums there was a thread about 

1077
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:56,400
George R Martin's visit to New 
Zealand and Rotorura Park. 

1078
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,560
Supposedly George said this 
inspired a location at the books

1079
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,520
at that time again, 2004, which 
hadn't happened yet, right? 

1080
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,000
So this is what I said at the 
beginning. 

1081
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,440
It's like he he was inspired to 
create this location over a 

1082
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,840
decade before Dance with Dragons
And this is it. 

1083
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,600
And when you hear the 
description in a second here, 

1084
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,480
you will understand why it's a 
dead ringer for Hardhome. 

1085
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:23,600
Author James Henry Cary Nichols 
wrote a book called The King 

1086
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,080
Country, which is named after a 
region in New Zealand also 

1087
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,840
called, well, King Country 
Quote. 

1088
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:34,680
Just beyond Waikanapa, Napa, we 
entered a rocky, desolate gorge,

1089
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,880
seamed and fissured in every 
direction with streams of hot 

1090
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,640
water, while jets of hissing 
steam bursting from its sides 

1091
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,080
marked the site of subterranean 
fires. 

1092
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,800
The heated quaking soil was 
covered with thick deposits of 

1093
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:57,640
silica, sulfur oxide of iron, 
pumice, Obsidian, scoria, and 

1094
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,760
other volcanic products, and 
with its sulphurous atmosphere, 

1095
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,000
fierce heat and shrieking 
sounds, it appeared as we 

1096
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,000
entered it like a shortcut to 
pandemonium. 

1097
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,160
One of the most remarkable 
wonders of this region was 

1098
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:21,440
Teyana Typo or the Devil's hole,
a deep circuit, a deep circular 

1099
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,120
aperture in the rocky gorge from
which a column of transparent 

1100
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,440
steam burst from a small 
aperture at the bottom of the 

1101
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:35,040
deep funnel shaped hole with a 
deafening, screeching sound like

1102
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:40,000
the voices of 1000 Friends. 
Never was heard anything so wild

1103
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,320
and so dismal as the human like 
wailings of Teyana Taipo. 

1104
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,760
And as the thrilling noise went 
echoing over the hills, one 

1105
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:53,680
expected to see an army of evil 
spirits spring up around, headed

1106
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,920
by His Satanic Majesty himself. 
There you have it. 

1107
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,400
Screaming caves. 
Indeed the devil's whole 

1108
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,440
unnatural sounding, but quite 
natural in truth. 

1109
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,920
Subterranean fires, fierce heat,
etcetera, etcetera. 

1110
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,360
Very similar. 
That quote expected to see an 

1111
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,320
army of evil spirits spring up 
around heat headed by His 

1112
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,040
Satanic Majesty himself. 
That's basically what happens in

1113
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,400
Hardhome. 
Army of evil spirits shows up. 

1114
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:23,000
It's it's ice instead of fire. 
There's no Night king in the 

1115
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,720
book but in the show even has 
the Satan like the guy with 

1116
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:27,800
horns. 
You know, like even that part is

1117
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,640
is represented and a chea, 
you're a a Hawaiian person. 

1118
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,040
You probably noticed some of 
these language similarities to 

1119
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,840
the Maori. 
The you know Maori Hawaiian. 

1120
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,880
There's both Polynesian, so. 
Yeah. 

1121
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,760
To be clear, when as he says 
that I'm born and raised in 

1122
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,360
Hawaii, I don't really call 
myself a Hawaiian person, but I 

1123
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,240
am born and raised there. 
And so yes, all of these words 

1124
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,680
are very similar. 
There's there's Wanapa Napa 

1125
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,800
versus this New Zealand version,
Waikanapanapa, which are very 

1126
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,080
similar and you'll see tons of 
similar words across them. 

1127
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,800
So yeah, like you can't see 
those words, but Wayanapanapa 

1128
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,360
and Waikanapanapa really are 
just AK different. 

1129
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,240
They're the exact same spelling 
with just the K inserted there. 

1130
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,960
So yeah, Polynesians discovered 
Hawaii 1500 years ago and New 

1131
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,440
Zealand about 800 years ago. 
So those are both Polynesian 

1132
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,160
people. 
Some of you may have heard that 

1133
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,400
Jason Momoa, of course, Khal 
Drogo, who is Hawaiian, also 

1134
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,240
performed a traditional haka as 
part of his audition for Khal 

1135
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:25,240
Drogo. 
Haka is an intense dance 

1136
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:27,920
normally associated with war or 
funerals or weddings. 

1137
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,120
The haka is also a tradition in 
New Zealand. 

1138
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,200
So another connection between 
those two peoples that have a 

1139
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,160
similar origin. 
Now here's a crazy footnote 

1140
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,120
about that quote from our 
author, James Henry Kerry 

1141
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,240
Nichols and the King Country. 
That account was written in 

1142
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:47,600
1884. 
Now, in 1886, Mount Terrawera 

1143
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,080
erupted. 
The next paragraph of that quote

1144
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,880
mentions Mount Terrawera and the
Pink and White Terraces, 'cause 

1145
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,520
he went there before Mount 
Terrawera exploded, less than 

1146
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,760
two years apart. 
So we talked about Mount 

1147
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:06,600
Terrawera almost exactly two 
years ago on three 2022 in an 

1148
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,960
episode about Valyria. 
We talked about the Doom and we 

1149
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,120
this was the last time that we 
talked about real life 

1150
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,280
volcanoes. 
At the time we said we'd come 

1151
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,720
back to this when it was time 
for Hardhome and the the Pink 

1152
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,880
and White terraces were 
overwhelmed by Terra Wera and 

1153
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,560
thought destroyed. 
They've been recently 

1154
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,280
rediscovered. 
They're considered an eighth 

1155
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,160
world wonder, so they people 
thought they were destroyed, but

1156
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,160
they're actually just buried 
under all this ash. 

1157
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,680
So 2 years from now some volcano
goes off. 

1158
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,240
Watch out, yeah. 
Oh, maybe two years from now, 

1159
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,400
when's the winners are going to 
come on? 

1160
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,560
Maybe that's There's got to be 
some meaning here, right? 

1161
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,720
Yeah, something something so 
that's pretty wild, right, that 

1162
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,200
we talked about that and this 
guy witnessed it two years 

1163
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:46,360
before. 
So I pointed that out to 

1164
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,640
Butterfly on on on her blog 
there that this guy was two 

1165
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,480
years before that eruption, 
which is also an inspiration for

1166
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,080
George. 
Moving on or moving forward with

1167
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,880
this topic, the most active 
geothermal area in the region is

1168
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,840
called Tikitary or Tikitary. 
I don't know how to say it from 

1169
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,440
a story where a Maori Princess 
threw herself in this like 

1170
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,240
volcanic lake and killed herself
rather than continue to bear her

1171
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,960
abusive husband. 
Westerners have nicknamed it 

1172
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,040
Hell's Gate thanks to author 
George Bernard Shaw, who gave 

1173
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,720
all sorts of names to all sorts 
of features down there, which 

1174
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:26,000
George RR Martin in turn read 
and appreciated and incorporated

1175
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,320
a bit. 
For example, he named some of 

1176
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,440
these like Hot Springs that you 
can bathe in Sodom and Gomorrah,

1177
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:36,680
Devil's Bath names like that. 
Now back to Rotorua. 

1178
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,840
This is where George visited. 
It's on the northern of the two 

1179
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,320
major New Zealand islands, and 
it means Second Lake or Crater 

1180
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,480
Lake in Maori. 
It's also nicknamed Sulphur City

1181
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,880
or Rotten Rua Because or Roto 
Vegas because it has a strip, 

1182
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,400
but because of the the smell of 
Sulphur, Right. 

1183
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,320
So circling all that back to 
Hardhome, it's said that the 

1184
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,560
screaming caves are the only 
shelter in the area. 

1185
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,400
So imagine this, like, we have 
this very real example in New 

1186
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,920
Zealand of screaming caves of 
steam escaping through vents 

1187
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,200
that are too small for all the 
steam to come through at once. 

1188
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,040
So it creates all this sound. 
OK, so if you have these caves 

1189
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,560
as shelter, yeah, it keeps the 
rain and some of the cold off 

1190
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,600
you. 
But Can you imagine sleeping in 

1191
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,960
that with those steam? 
Like it's probably really loud 

1192
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,960
and given you don't have the 
like scientific knowledge to 

1193
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:25,640
tell you oh it's just steam. 
What are you going to think? 

1194
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,880
You're a wild. 
You're a free folk person beyond

1195
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,400
the wall like that you. 
I don't think you would sleep in

1196
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,160
there. 
I mean it might just be too loud

1197
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:34,800
anyway. 
I forget like even if it was 

1198
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,360
again rock and a hard place type
stuff. 

1199
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,080
You just sleep out in the cold 
and exposure. 

1200
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:43,000
You sleep in the screaming like 
what? 

1201
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,200
Ice and fire again. 
Like you're either you're 

1202
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,320
steamed to into insanity or 
you're frozen to death. 

1203
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:52,320
I don't know. 
Yeah, it's just poor free folk. 

1204
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,560
That's all I got to say about 
that. 

1205
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,080
They're just, they're they're 
doing like Melisandre says they 

1206
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:57,720
are doing people. 
When you read stuff like that, 

1207
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,560
you're like, yeah, Melisandre is
probably not wrong. 

1208
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:02,600
In our fandom, there's a lot of 
theories about Hardhome, like 

1209
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,600
what happened there. 
Most of them aren't so 

1210
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,880
scientific in nature, but we're 
open to supernatural being 

1211
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,160
rolled up into this, like a 
supernatural cause. 

1212
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,240
A trigger, supernatural trigger 
or supernatural fallout could be

1213
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,360
part of this, right? 
Something could have encouraged 

1214
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,760
that volcano to go off. 
It's still a volcano. 

1215
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,800
But something could have, you 
know, given it a push, add a 

1216
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,720
little extra fuel to the fire, 
you know, for lack of a better 

1217
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,440
word. 
So one idea that's that's 

1218
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,120
permeated the fandom is that the
Faceless Men did it as a like a 

1219
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:35,640
test run for the doom. 
I'm not too big on that idea. 

1220
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,840
I think it's clever. 
But these these things are 200 

1221
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,160
years apart. 
There's no evidence the Faceless

1222
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,960
Men can do that. 
And we think what happened was 

1223
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,440
the Faceless Men assassinated 
enough of the Blood Mages, the 

1224
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,040
sorcerers who were responsible 
for holding it all back. 

1225
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,800
So it was like, it was like 
removing the safeguards. 

1226
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,680
They didn't literally trigger 
it, they just undid the seals 

1227
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,240
that were holding it back. 
So I don't know how they could 

1228
01:00:58,240 --> 01:00:59,880
have done that same sort of 
thing at Hardhome. 

1229
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:01,640
It doesn't really work. 
So given. 

1230
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,120
Why they would have? 
Yeah, Why would they blow up? 

1231
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,160
Well, again, it's a test run to 
see if it would work, if they 

1232
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,520
could blow up this place and 
they could blow up Valyria, you 

1233
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,320
know, but. 
Like, why would they have chosen

1234
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:11,000
a hard home? 
How? 

1235
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:12,200
How? 
Because it's a volcano. 

1236
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,480
Just because it's a volcano? 
Like where else are they going 

1237
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,400
to get volcanoes? 
But but how did they even know 

1238
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,960
it was a volcano? 
Well, there's. 

1239
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:19,080
Plenty of ways you can figure 
that out. 

1240
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,480
Aren't there other volcanoes 
that wouldn't endanger all these

1241
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:22,720
people's lives? 
Yeah, you're right. 

1242
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:23,680
Yeah. 
I mean, like you. 

1243
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:24,920
Like I said, yeah, I'm, I'm with
you. 

1244
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:26,280
I don't really think it's that 
great of a theory. 

1245
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,360
It's clever, but I don't think 
it works. 

1246
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,880
I don't think it holds up under 
scrutiny, but again, I like to 

1247
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:36,040
be thorough, raise these, raise 
these topics in order to address

1248
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,800
them. 
So yeah, and what about that 

1249
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,520
stuff about people carrying off 
into slavery and and all that? 

1250
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,400
We addressed some of it, but 
like the cannibals coming from 

1251
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,160
Skagos just to take advantage of
weakness. 

1252
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,760
Same thing for slavers. 
Like they might have the 

1253
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,120
conflagration was visible for 
mile for hundreds of miles. 

1254
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,280
So like word would have gotten 
out and some people might have 

1255
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,400
understood what that meant like 
OK and trading ships showed up 

1256
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,600
there regularly anyway. 
So maybe just they're on their 

1257
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,560
normal route and they're like 
they show up at heart home and 

1258
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,960
they're like whoa this is 
something has changed here this 

1259
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,160
place has been devastated Oh but
here's some survivors that we 

1260
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,280
can enslave something like that 
And then over time the story you

1261
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,280
could easily see how the story 
became that they that they 

1262
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,560
intentionally did this. 
I mean, they did intentionally 

1263
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,760
take the people, but they didn't
know before they got there 

1264
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,360
necessarily what would what 
would have happened A. 

1265
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,320
Ship that you know was a 
two-month sail away, you know, 

1266
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,320
by the time they wouldn't have 
known when they left, they got 

1267
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:28,640
there what was going to have 
happened. 

1268
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,680
And even if that ship didn't 
take slaves, when they go back 

1269
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,840
to where they came from, that 
story will spread. 

1270
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,520
Slavers here, the nail. 
Well, let's go check this out. 

1271
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,880
Maybe they're vulnerable. 
That makes a lot of sense, yeah.

1272
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,160
And it's the same. 
And Nina also points out a very 

1273
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,080
good, very straightforward and 
smart point, which is that it's 

1274
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,760
easy to imagine that sort of 
thing happening at Hard Home 600

1275
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,200
years ago, because it's 
happening there now. 

1276
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,640
There are a bunch of people 
there trapped and starving, and 

1277
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:53,920
people are carrying them off 
into slavery. 

1278
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,760
Hello. 
OK, so it's it's not. 

1279
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,680
It's history repeating itself. 
Not some strange first ever 

1280
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,440
example of this. 
And remember too, how the ashes 

1281
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,280
were falling for months or a 
year. 

1282
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,320
So yeah, right. 
So this would have been an 

1283
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,600
whatever happened and happened 
and what's happening there would

1284
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,080
have been gone on for a while, 
right? 

1285
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,240
That makes sense. 
It wasn't. 

1286
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,560
Time for word to spread, yeah. 
Right. 

1287
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,480
It's not. 
There's a volcano on Monday, and

1288
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,400
on Tuesday everyone's taken, 
taken a slave and then on 

1289
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,000
Wednesday is back to normal. 
You know, like it. 

1290
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,400
This would have been a process 
that spread out for months and 

1291
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,440
years, maybe, yes. 
And then and the rippling rumors

1292
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,480
of what the reality of what 
happened, the rumors would have 

1293
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,680
spread for even generations, you
know, and they would have been 

1294
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,040
embellished and exaggerated. 
So. 

1295
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,920
Now, if you want to get a little
extra conspiratorial about the 

1296
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,000
others and showing up there, one
of the reasons, it's pretty 

1297
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,840
straightforward. 
There's a lot of human, human 

1298
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,400
souls there and they want to 
take that. 

1299
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,960
They want to capture those, kill
those people and and make them 

1300
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,120
undead slaves. 
A different form of slavery, 

1301
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:50,760
right? 
And we've we've many times 

1302
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,800
touched on that allegory between
regular slavery and undead 

1303
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,040
slavery and how similar they 
are. 

1304
01:03:55,520 --> 01:04:00,440
But if there is dragonglass like
Unearthed Shot closer to the 

1305
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,880
surface because of that 
eruption, others might not want 

1306
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,800
anyone getting to that. 
They might want to kind of, you 

1307
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,320
know, cut that off. 
I don't know. 

1308
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,000
That's just how they think or if
they really think at all. 

1309
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,080
But there's does seem to be some
intelligence there. 

1310
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,920
And they know what I'm pretty 
sure they they understand what 

1311
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,840
their weaknesses are. 
It's not like Superman doesn't. 

1312
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,680
It's like Superman not 
understanding what kryptonite 

1313
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:19,720
is. 
He's like, I don't know, that's 

1314
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:21,680
all of a sudden I got really 
weak. 

1315
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,440
I don't understand why, Like, 
wasn't it kryptonite? 

1316
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:29,360
Like what the others are aware 
of their that dragon glass melts

1317
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:30,840
them. 
I don't think they're surprised 

1318
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,520
when that happened. 
You know, like, oh, I didn't 

1319
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:33,520
know that could happen. 
So. 

1320
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,640
So it's entirely possible that's
wrapped up in here, but I 

1321
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:40,400
wouldn't. 
I wouldn't go too far with that,

1322
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,920
but it's a worthy idea. 
You know, here's another thought

1323
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,280
that I might be reaching. 
I don't really believe this, but

1324
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,080
just an interesting 
consideration that what if it 

1325
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,440
was the others holding back this
volcanic explosion? 

1326
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,280
What if there's some other 
presence there and for some 

1327
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,400
reason they left? 
And when they did, the coldness 

1328
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,520
left with them. 
The magma was allowed to be 

1329
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:02,440
released. 
Interesting. 

1330
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:08,320
It is possible because of what 
we see, that, that their cold is

1331
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,600
enough to tamp down the fires. 
We do see that in Melisandre's 

1332
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:12,800
dream, which we'll get to in the
second-half. 

1333
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,360
So if it can tamp down the fires
now, why not back then? 

1334
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,200
Or what you're what we could be 
saying is if they needed a 

1335
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,080
rescue team of firefighters, the
others? 

1336
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,840
Should should should change. 
To being firefighters. 

1337
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,600
That's true. 
One other could shut down a 

1338
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,400
whole multi stage fire, you're 
right. 

1339
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,680
So here's another follow up 
quote about what it's become 

1340
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:39,440
since. 6 centuries had come and 
gone since that night, but 

1341
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:44,040
Hardholm was still shunned. 
The Wild had reclaimed the site,

1342
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,320
John had been told, but Rangers 
claimed that the overgrown ruins

1343
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,480
were haunted by ghouls and 
demons and burning ghosts with 

1344
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:56,320
an unhealthy taste for blood. 
What is an unhealthy taste for 

1345
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,600
blood? 
What is the recommended daily 

1346
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,040
allowance of for blood when 
you're a burning ghost? 

1347
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,640
I mean yeah. 
Did a doctor sign off on that 

1348
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,880
statement, George? 
You know it's it's a bit similar

1349
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,200
to language used in other 
supposedly cursed places like 

1350
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:15,160
Aaron Hall and of course Valyria
and the other even more volcano 

1351
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,560
blasted landscape. 
You know. 

1352
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,800
So yeah, the the whole talk 
about ghosts and and all that. 

1353
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:22,280
Yeah. 
So it's kind of standard 

1354
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,320
language that gets assigned to 
places that are considered 

1355
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:25,600
cursed. 
I'm not sure we can read too 

1356
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,200
much into it other than general 
superstition, but if there are 

1357
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:34,000
such thing as burning ghosts or 
ghouls, then oh Yikes that this 

1358
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,520
is a place they'd be. 
But there's I've never seen a 

1359
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,680
ghoul in A Song of Ice and Fire.
They've just been mentioned a 

1360
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:39,960
few times. 
I've seen them in Always Sunny 

1361
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,840
in Philadelphia, yes. 
I have heard of them there. 

1362
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,120
Yes, that's true. 
OK, let's take a quick break and

1363
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,600
then we'll come back with a 
little more real world volcano 

1364
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:52,200
stuff and then dig deep into the
good stuff, the theories. 

1365
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,000
What's going to happen? 
Everything happening there now. 

1366
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,640
I'm a big fan of Factor meals. 
They're very flexible for your 

1367
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,640
schedule. 
I'm a big fan of any sort of 

1368
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,160
meal plan that allows you to 
customize it to you rather than 

1369
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,880
fitting your schedule, your 
eating habits to an existing 

1370
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:13,880
thing, Something that fits your 
life, your schedule, your 

1371
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,520
preferred meals, your preferred 
nutrients, the things that your 

1372
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:19,600
body wants, the things that you 
think are good for you. 

1373
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,880
That's really valuable. 
Let me highlight one thing in 

1374
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:25,240
particular that I like about 
factor. 

1375
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:30,760
Is there protein shakes. 
I don't like to stop to eat in 

1376
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,920
the middle of the day. 
I like to either be all working 

1377
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,320
or all not working. 
I'm not always good at that, but

1378
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,160
that's what I prefer to be. 
So I don't like to take long 

1379
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:41,680
breaks for meals. 
I want to just like eat 

1380
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,360
something quickly and then get 
back to making a living as soon 

1381
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:49,000
as I as quickly as I can. 
And the problem with that is 

1382
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,760
that you often don't eat well. 
When you do that, you often 

1383
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:57,320
maybe skimp on the good food. 
Maybe you eat something quick 

1384
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,720
rather than staying healthy. 
Maybe you don't eat enough, 

1385
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:01,480
which doesn't fuel you up 
enough. 

1386
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:06,480
Factor really addresses that by 
having fully prepared meals that

1387
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,840
are quick and that have quality 
ingredients. 

1388
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:14,160
So you're not, you know, 
slacking off on nutrition, but 

1389
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,200
you're still getting the food 
really quickly. 

1390
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:19,160
And if that meal doesn't fill 
you up, then the shake will do 

1391
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:20,960
it. 
If you got to eat that meal and 

1392
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,359
drink that shake, you're not 
going to want dessert after, you

1393
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:25,319
know. 
They're 100% ready to heat and 

1394
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:26,880
eat. 
You don't have to microwave. 

1395
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,680
It's not microwave food, 
although you can microwave. 

1396
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:30,880
That is a valid option, but you 
can also just stick them on the 

1397
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:32,840
oven. 
It's ready in like 8 minutes. 

1398
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:34,520
I think it is. 
Surely there's a little 

1399
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:36,279
variation there. 
Not every everything cooks 

1400
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:38,760
exactly the same, but I haven't 
seen one yet that took more than

1401
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,080
10 minutes, so that's pretty 
quick. 

1402
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:47,040
That definitely lines up with my
goal of getting my food in me as

1403
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,880
quickly as possible so I can get
back to work. 

1404
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,720
And with a smoothie, of course, 
you don't even have to stop 

1405
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,880
working, you just drink while 
you're working just to have that

1406
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,600
be your beverage. 
So I'm a big fan of that. 

1407
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,720
I'm a big fan of being able to 
select exactly how many meals I 

1408
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,920
get per week, whether they're 
drinks, full meals, whether 

1409
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,279
they're lunches or dinners. 
I don't really use factor a lot 

1410
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:09,120
for dinner meals. 
It is more for more for an 

1411
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,120
afternoon thing, because for 
dinner, you know, I can take my 

1412
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,600
time a little more, but it's a 
perfectly valid option. 

1413
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:18,600
They have amazing dinners with 
high quality ingredients. 

1414
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:23,279
You know the best steaks and 
veggies and chickens and 

1415
01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:25,840
potatoes, all the best stuff. 
So that's the the beauty of 

1416
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:27,160
customization. 
So head to 

1417
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:32,240
factormeals.com/westeros 50. 
Use the code Westeros 50 to get 

1418
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:36,520
50% off your first month plus 
20% off your next month. 

1419
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:41,680
That's code Westeros 50 at 
factormeals.com/westeros 50 to 

1420
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,120
get 50% off your first box, plus
20% off your next box while your

1421
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,520
subscription is still active. 
That's a great deal, folks. 

1422
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,399
It's at least worth a try. 
If it works for you to fit your 

1423
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:54,279
schedule, then you have 
discovered something new that 

1424
01:09:54,279 --> 01:09:55,800
will make you more productive 
and efficient. 

1425
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:00,200
And of course, if you're making 
any big change to your diet, be 

1426
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,960
aware that you know sometimes 
your body might need a little 

1427
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,040
adjustment. 
So I'm not a doctor, but we all 

1428
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:10,480
need to keep that in mind when 
we're changing our habits, you 

1429
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:11,840
know? 
And your body needs a little 

1430
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,200
adjustment period. 
I also want to shout out our 

1431
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,920
Twitch streams. 
Every Friday I play Crusader 

1432
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,560
Kings 3 for A Song of Ice and 
Fire. 

1433
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,440
It's an amazingly detailed 
module. 

1434
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:26,800
It contains all the heraldry, 
all the history, all the names 

1435
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:30,000
that you recognize, all the 
houses, all the geography. 

1436
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,840
It is extremely well done. 
I'm currently playing the Son of

1437
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,560
Maelis, the Monstrous main R 
black fire king on the Iron 

1438
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,360
Throne. 
He's a very sadistic and cruel 

1439
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:43,920
man and he's executes lots of 
people. 

1440
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:46,520
He he killed all the high 
towers. 

1441
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,920
He made a tower of high tower 
heads. 

1442
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,720
Actually, his father did that, 
but he approved CAN. 

1443
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,000
I just say you called it a a a 
module. 

1444
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,200
Yeah, it's sort of a mod. 
I know, I said the whole word. 

1445
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,040
Yeah, I think it's short for 
modification, not module. 

1446
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,440
I think a module because of D&D,
like back in the day when you 

1447
01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:06,320
buy a mod. 
Mod was short for module. 

1448
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,200
Like an adventure that fit in, 
you could. 

1449
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,360
Oh, that's an interesting. 
So I was just, I genuinely was 

1450
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,440
curious about if you had any. 
It was always. 

1451
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:14,000
I've never heard that. 
I wonder if it is. 

1452
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,840
Yeah, I wonder. 
If I think it's modification, 

1453
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,240
that's what I've always assumed 
I'm not. 

1454
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,280
Because because it's your 
modding the. 

1455
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,280
Code is changing. 
Changing it, whereas in your 

1456
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:26,000
case of AD and D module mod 
would be an actual. 

1457
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:27,880
It doesn't change, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1458
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,360
That makes sense. 
Cool, couple of comments from 

1459
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:35,040
Y'all, a nascent novice, says. 
I really enjoy Sean's idea. 

1460
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:36,240
That hard home was quite spread 
out. 

1461
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,560
Thus the different leaders call 
back to Rome being a collection 

1462
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:39,720
of settlements that became one 
city. 

1463
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,160
Yeah, Rome was a vigil like a 
lot of ancient cities was that 

1464
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,120
they were like different 
sections for each tribe. 

1465
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,920
And eventually that sort of the 
tribal distinctions started to 

1466
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:51,240
fall off over time. 
Great call, Dornish, James says.

1467
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,600
Also has me in mind of John at 
Castle Black and Dance with 

1468
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,520
Dragons, thinking that Sam 
should be documenting all the 

1469
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,480
histories and traditions and 
songs and languages of the free 

1470
01:11:57,480 --> 01:11:59,680
folk. 
Ah, yes, I forgot about that. 

1471
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,240
That's a really good call. 
Yes, he did say that he did 

1472
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,040
value it. 
And that's one of the many 

1473
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,880
reasons we like John. 
He he cares about those things 

1474
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:12,480
and he thinks of those things. 
He's like what Lord Commander 

1475
01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:15,720
before him would have done that?
Probably not none, but it's 

1476
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,840
probably pretty rare attitude to
hold. 

1477
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:21,280
Dorcham also says also agrees 
that the hardhum thing wasn't 

1478
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,400
some sort of test run. 
It could have provided 

1479
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,560
inspiration for the face of them
giving them an idea like maybe 

1480
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:31,320
that, but it probably wasn't 
their entire doing. 

1481
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:34,320
I agree with that. 
I I think that's a neat idea 

1482
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:38,840
though, because they could have 
seen you know been a witness and

1483
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,240
and or heard the stories and 
then some gear started turning 

1484
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,040
and it might have taken a couple
100 years to piece it together, 

1485
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,960
this master plan, but it would 
be a a good inspiration. 

1486
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:52,680
Yeah. 
So last time we had, we had 

1487
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,320
occasion discussed volcanoes on 
the show. 

1488
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:58,320
As I brought up earlier, it was 
in March of 2022. 

1489
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,480
The Hunga Tonga eruption had 
just happened. 

1490
01:13:01,480 --> 01:13:04,200
It was January 15th, 2022. 
So it was it had been less than 

1491
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:05,680
two months old or about two 
months old. 

1492
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,280
We decided to wait to discuss 
it, even though it was such a 

1493
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:12,040
great real world example. 
Great not in a good way, because

1494
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,560
it was devastating, but as in a 
good example, as in a quality 

1495
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:17,880
example of the point we were 
trying to get AT and the data 

1496
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:19,800
we're trying to get AT. 
Because at the time, after only 

1497
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,200
two months, the world's best 
scientists were still very much 

1498
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:27,120
in progress on on working on it 
and it has been long enough. 

1499
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,440
Now let's take you know 5 
minutes to discuss what we 

1500
01:13:29,440 --> 01:13:31,520
learned. 
Shout out to Virginie, friend of

1501
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,040
the show, friend of us, friend 
of the community who lived on 

1502
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,400
Tonga when this occurred. 
And she shared quite a lot about

1503
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,240
her experience and and some on 
the ground data that you 

1504
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,200
normally can't get someone who 
actually lived through it. 

1505
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:46,040
So we we mentioned the explosion
of Mount Tarawera in 1886 that 

1506
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:51,560
was AVEI volcanic index of four.
Tonga was a four or five or six.

1507
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,840
They're still debating it but 
most people, most scientists 

1508
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,600
seem to think it's closer to the
it's closer to the six than the 

1509
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,440
four. 
So maybe 5 is about right. 

1510
01:13:58,440 --> 01:14:01,200
One of the reasons it's debated 
it's because it's it's so much 

1511
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,600
more data they have The modern 
science is there's nothing like 

1512
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,920
it. 
There's never been the equipment

1513
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,760
that we have now, which is so 
much better than what we had 

1514
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:15,040
even 30 years ago, that the data
that we get from this volcano is

1515
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,000
far beyond one any that we've 
ever had. 

1516
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,080
Before not just the equipment, 
but the interconnectedness of 

1517
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,280
equipment around the world, our 
ability to communicate with each

1518
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:25,520
other immediately and share the 
information and so. 

1519
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,640
On yeah, that's a you're you're 
totally right to say that, Sean.

1520
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,120
That's a huge factor because one
of the examples is when it 

1521
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:32,800
happened, there were already 
people getting on the phones, 

1522
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,760
getting on the Internet, like 
shutting down ports thousands of

1523
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,520
miles away and and being 
prepared for it was like, hey, 

1524
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:41,960
in two hours or so, you're going
to get a tidal wave and people 

1525
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,160
would would know to get out of 
the way. 

1526
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:49,760
They tracked the shock waves of 
Tonga through Antarctica through

1527
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:52,200
holes bored in the ice. 
They felt they they, they had 

1528
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:55,280
instruments in the ice that 
detected it there. 

1529
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,240
So yeah, you're right, Sean. 
There was just all over the 

1530
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:01,480
world they were picking up data 
and it's just nothing like that 

1531
01:15:01,480 --> 01:15:04,120
had ever happened when this 
equipment was available. 

1532
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:08,280
So while I still think Hardhome 
was a Fredo magmatic eruption, 

1533
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,880
this this one was definitely 
plenty in. 

1534
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,640
It's the largest atmospheric 
disturbance since Krakatoa. 

1535
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,920
Another mention of Krakatoa and 
Krakatoa was 1883 and it's the 

1536
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:21,400
largest ever explosion recorded 
by almost any form of 

1537
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,720
technology. 
Despite that, like many 

1538
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,280
volcanoes, it wasn't one 
eruption, there was multiple 

1539
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,880
eruptions and modern science 
despite all this thing failed 

1540
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,400
kind of hard here. 
Despite all our technology and 

1541
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,680
all our tracking, there were 
several eruptions over 25 days 

1542
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:39,680
starting on the December 20th 
2021 and sometimes just think 

1543
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,640
it's still erupting right now. 
But underwater they declared it 

1544
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,760
dormant on January 11th. 
Oops. 

1545
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:48,080
That was a big oops, because it 
erupted again on the 14th and 

1546
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:49,960
then again on the 15th. 
And the 15th was the really big 

1547
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:51,440
one. 
So they were very wrong about 

1548
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:52,360
that. 
That's the one we all heard 

1549
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:54,680
about. 
The other earlier ones didn't 

1550
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:56,920
make national global news, 
whatever. 

1551
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:00,040
Or not many places. 
This is the one we all heard 

1552
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:01,880
about. 
This plume from. 

1553
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:05,760
The explosion on the 15th went 
58 kilometers in the air. 

1554
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,760
That's 36 miles. 
That's incomprehensible to me. 

1555
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:10,520
That's crazy. 
I mean, that's higher than 

1556
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,000
anything on Earth by far. 
Yeah, that that could take out 

1557
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,880
an airplane if it happened to be
above it, which would be 

1558
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:18,600
unlikely, but could have. 
There's images. 

1559
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,360
Way higher than airplanes fly. 
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

1560
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:22,880
Yeah. 
There's images from the 

1561
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:26,440
International Space Station of 
the cloud forming as it happens.

1562
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:28,760
So there's another example that 
could never have been captured 

1563
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:32,560
in 1880 or whatever. 
The sound waves were heard soon 

1564
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,720
after in Samoa and Fiji, and 
that's 500 and 400 miles away, 

1565
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:39,720
respectively. 2 hours later it 
was heard in New Zealand, 1200 

1566
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,600
miles away, They heard it. 
There were, there were people 

1567
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:44,360
who knew in advance to listen. 
They're like, you're going to 

1568
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:46,720
hear this in two hours. 
Call here, get on the phone, 

1569
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:49,560
say, hey, listen for this. 
In about two hours, the sounds 

1570
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:53,840
were actually heard as far away 
as the Yukon, 6000 miles away, 

1571
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:57,880
9700 kilometers away, the sound 
of of Hungatonga erupting was 

1572
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,520
heard in the Yukon. 
Yeah, shock waves. 

1573
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:04,520
At the time we heard the, the 
shock waves circled the globe 

1574
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:05,880
three times. 
It's going both directions. 

1575
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:08,240
So they go around the globe, 
meet in the and then they hit go

1576
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,240
around, meet. 
We heard it was three times. 

1577
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,120
It was actually four times. 
There was also a huge amounts of

1578
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:14,360
lightning. 
That's a thing that often isn't 

1579
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:16,240
mentioned when volcanic 
activity. 

1580
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:17,920
There's lots and lots and lots 
of lightning. 

1581
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,800
There were 200,000 lightning 
flashes on the day of that 

1582
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:23,520
volcano. 
I wonder if that happened in 

1583
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:24,880
hard home or at the Duke of 
Duvalier. 

1584
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,880
Were there lots of volcanoes 
that day, I mean, or those days,

1585
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,880
the weeks building up? 
Probably, at least in some of 

1586
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:31,680
these cases. 
Now, here's something contrary 

1587
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:34,600
to what we discussed before. 
Everybody knows that for the 

1588
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,880
most part, volcanoes can lower 
global temperatures. 

1589
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:42,160
They've done that many times. 
Krakatoa literally lowered all 

1590
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:46,360
global temperatures by 1.2 
Celsius, 2.2 Fahrenheit for five

1591
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:48,320
years. 
That's called volcanic winter, 

1592
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:49,520
right? 
We've all heard of that. 

1593
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:52,360
But it's not always the case 
with Hunga Tonga. 

1594
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,320
There was so much water vapor in
the explosion then it caused a 

1595
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:59,280
greenhouse effect and it 
actually raised the temperature 

1596
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:03,120
locally and had a net warming 
effect on the entire planet. 

1597
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:04,800
Which is of course just what we 
need. 

1598
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:06,480
Yes. 
Let's make it warmer. 

1599
01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:08,080
Yeah. 
More global warming. 

1600
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:09,240
Great. 
Yes. 

1601
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:10,320
We. 
So yeah. 

1602
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:11,080
Good example. 
Yes. 

1603
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:13,280
Just because we know man made 
climate change is a thing. 

1604
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,400
It doesn't mean we don't think 
natural climate change is also a

1605
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:17,400
thing. 
They're both exist. 

1606
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,400
Yeah. 
Volcanoes can cause tsunamis, 

1607
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:21,600
though they usually don't. 
It's it's often reported they do

1608
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:23,800
but that's just cause. 
Some of the biggest ones often 

1609
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:25,480
have that, but the smaller ones 
often don't. 

1610
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,800
This was one of those 
exceptions, unfortunately. 

1611
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,040
This was volcano. 
This was a volcano with 

1612
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,520
tsunamis. 
Two people were killed by a 

1613
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:39,320
tsunami caused by Hungatanga in 
Peru, 6700 miles away. 

1614
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:42,840
Two people were killed by a six 
foot high wave and they were in 

1615
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:46,400
a truck and and they drowned. 
There was also video all over 

1616
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,640
Peruvian and Chilean social 
media 'cause they all knew it 

1617
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,320
was coming. 
Like everybody got on the horns.

1618
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,360
Like, hey, in a few hours 
there's going to be giant waves.

1619
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:54,680
These people in this truck, I 
apparently didn't get the word 

1620
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:57,480
or something. 
Anyway, 8 to 10 boats were sunk 

1621
01:18:57,480 --> 01:19:01,600
at a Marina in New Zealand. 
How far away is New Zealand from

1622
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,080
Tonga? 
Well like 6000 miles or 

1623
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:04,920
something like that. 
Yeah. 

1624
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:06,440
A person was also killed in 
Fiji. 

1625
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:09,560
And this is the following day 
that those boats were sunk in 

1626
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,840
the marine. 
So a day later the tidal wave 

1627
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:15,000
let the waves sunk these boats. 
Japan had waves as high as four 

1628
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:19,400
feet at Okinawa. 
Japan is nowhere near Tonga and 

1629
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:20,960
but overall this was 
inconsistent 'cause it wasn't 

1630
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,080
like a universal explosion in 
every direction. 

1631
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,600
It was like some some of the 
nearest islands didn't didn't 

1632
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:29,360
have any big waves at all, yet 
there were waves in New Zealand 

1633
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,200
and Japan. 
So that's wild. 

1634
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:32,680
That should give us plenty to 
ponder, right? 

1635
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:34,280
Plumes Fredo. 
Magmatic. 

1636
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:36,280
Plenty in The Potent Power of 
the Planet. 

1637
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:38,680
Yeah, I got a little more 
alliteration in there for you, 

1638
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:41,680
so that really gives you the 
power. 

1639
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:45,880
Now let's bring that all back to
Planetos, another P The notion 

1640
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,120
that volcanoes have a global 
impact in a variety of ways 

1641
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,480
reminds us to look elsewhere 
besides Hardhome. 

1642
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:52,960
One of the things we didn't 
include so much that we didn't 

1643
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,360
talk about, that's a big deal 
and it adds to the just overall 

1644
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:59,200
horror of the situation is that 
all that ash and chemical 

1645
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,800
getting chemicals getting 
evacuated from the cone, the 

1646
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,600
volcano, whatever can causes 
massive water contamination. 

1647
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:09,240
So all like nearby drinking 
water is all going to be not 

1648
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,600
drinkable in the short term. 
So like. 

1649
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,000
No food and no water. 
I mean that's really bad and 

1650
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,960
it's it's kind of funny to think
about not in a ha ha way that 

1651
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:23,320
Hardholm like you think of Hunga
Tonga and Krakatoa and all this.

1652
01:20:23,480 --> 01:20:26,240
Hardholm doesn't seem like it 
was necessarily as big as those.

1653
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:28,400
Like it was just kind of odd 
cause George loves to go big, 

1654
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:30,560
which he did with The Doom. 
So, you know, it's not like he 

1655
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,360
hasn't gone there, but Hardholm 
seems, you know, pretty darn 

1656
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:36,320
big. 
But it it seems kind of smaller 

1657
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:38,320
than some of these other ones. 
But still, people might have 

1658
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:40,920
heard it in Bravos or Norvos or 
pretty darn far away. 

1659
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,240
You know, it still would have 
been heard and seen thousands of

1660
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,880
miles away potentially. 
It also depends on how big 

1661
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:47,520
exactly hard home is like. 
That's. 

1662
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,440
Right, right. 
We don't quite know. 

1663
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,160
So it could be bigger than we 
realized, but and it could also 

1664
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:55,960
have been more contained than it
would have been if there were 

1665
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:57,880
others around suppressing with 
their. 

1666
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:59,440
Coldness. 
They could have done some good 

1667
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:02,120
there, those others, you know. 
So I don't know if there's a 

1668
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:03,800
tsunami after Hardhome, probably
not. 

1669
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,960
But if there was, you know, it 
would have hit Scagos and Skein 

1670
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:08,840
maybe. 
Maybe the Veil. 

1671
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:10,600
That's another thing I I wish I 
knew. 

1672
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:14,320
I wish there was like a some 
consolidated timeline of all 

1673
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:15,760
events. 
That would be awesome. 

1674
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,040
Ice of Fire like that. 
That would be a monumental task 

1675
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:20,280
to put together. 
But if we could pinpoint what 

1676
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:25,000
else was happening around the 
world at that year, 600 years 

1677
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:26,600
prior? 
Yeah, that would be cool. 

1678
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:29,880
Now, Dragonstone give an example
of that. 

1679
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,040
Dragonstone would have been 
raised roughly in that era, that

1680
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,480
around that same time we can't 
be again, we we don't know the 

1681
01:21:34,480 --> 01:21:36,240
exact dates, but it's relatively
close. 

1682
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,480
So Mina has an idea here. 
Maybe from a more human 

1683
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:41,400
perspective. 
Maybe some people in Valyria, 

1684
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:43,800
like heard about Hardhome and 
then spooked them a little bit. 

1685
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:45,760
They're like, oh I don't know 
maybe don't want to live around 

1686
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:47,520
volcanoes anymore. 
Not like a lot of people. 

1687
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,360
Most people didn't leave, but 
maybe a few you know or just a 

1688
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:53,400
just, you know a point OO 1% of 
the population. 

1689
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:59,440
We're like, this is bad. 
Maybe maybe we should get out of

1690
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:01,240
here. 
And they moved to Dragonstone, 

1691
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:04,720
which is also a volcano. 
So maybe that theory doesn't 

1692
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:08,080
work. 
But they needed, they wanted to 

1693
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,440
be somewhere where there was 
volcanic activity because still 

1694
01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:13,680
Valyrian, they want to have 
that, especially if they're 

1695
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,120
worried about Dragons and stuff 
like that in the long run. 

1696
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,080
But yeah, so I mean, just think 
about that. 

1697
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,480
Like someone in Valyria living 
around volcanoes sees a volcano 

1698
01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:25,360
blow up and was like, you know, 
maybe I don't want to live here 

1699
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:26,840
anymore. 
Either way, it could be 

1700
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:28,720
connected. 
Like the idea of volcanic 

1701
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,840
activity in Westeros may have 
drawn some people over to take a

1702
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:33,760
closer look. 
Yeah, it could have been. 

1703
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,680
Maybe not fear and running away,
but curiosity and going to check

1704
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:38,880
it out. 
Like what other volcanoes are 

1705
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:40,960
there? 
That was a lot of power, a lot 

1706
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,320
of fire. 
We could have done something 

1707
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:44,360
with that heat, the blood 
sources or whatever might have 

1708
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,560
been like intrigued. 
Yeah, or maybe just a little 

1709
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:48,960
more thinking, a little more 
mundane. 

1710
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,880
The the first Valyrians we heard
that showed up on Dragonstone 

1711
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:56,240
were were traitors. 
And if they had been trying to 

1712
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:58,920
trade up at Hardhome and 
Hardhome was a you know, place 

1713
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:02,360
that you can no longer trade at,
maybe there was they saw an an 

1714
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:04,680
opening for a new spot even 
though it was nowhere near 

1715
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:05,920
there. 
I don't know, maybe that doesn't

1716
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:10,280
work. 
But regardless, one trade hub 

1717
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,400
shuts down, another opens might 
be at least tangentially 

1718
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:15,080
related. 
So yeah, we we mentioned it 

1719
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:19,280
earlier, but the Sea Snake, he's
like the only person we know of 

1720
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:22,600
between the explosion and now 
that has been there. 

1721
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:26,360
Surely there are others. 
Rangers, maybe a Maester or two,

1722
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:29,280
but we don't know who they are 
or their names. 

1723
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:30,760
The Sea Snack. 
We do know his name. 

1724
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:33,040
He took his ship, the Ice Wolf, 
there. 

1725
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:36,320
But he wasn't going just there. 
He was going all over up there. 

1726
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:38,560
He went to Eastwatch. 
He went to Bravos. 

1727
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:40,120
He was trying to find a 
Northwest Passage. 

1728
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,680
He was trying to find a way 
through and around to get to the

1729
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,760
other coast above. 
He He never did. 

1730
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:49,440
But it was an interesting and 
worthy endeavour. 

1731
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,320
So yeah, let's talk about what 
we think is coming and just in 

1732
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:56,600
case you've gotten crossed up, 
let's review Book Hardhome 

1733
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,040
because show Hardhome might have
thrown you off a little bit. 

1734
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:03,080
Book Hardhome is entirely off 
page and might stay that way. 

1735
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:05,920
Obviously in the show he goes 
there with Torment and it made 

1736
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:09,240
for a very popular episode. 
In the book, it's just Torment 

1737
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:12,920
given the order to go, and he 
might not do it because Jon gets

1738
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:14,640
stabbed not long after that 
order. 

1739
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,480
Torment hasn't left yet. 
I do want to clarify, it's not 

1740
01:24:17,480 --> 01:24:19,960
exactly just torment Torment's 
put in charge, but it's a 

1741
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:24,320
contingency of of dozens of 
people, mostly mostly free fold.

1742
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:25,560
But. 
But also, nights watch. 

1743
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:26,720
Yeah, it was supposed to be 
both, yeah. 

1744
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:30,720
Either way, I would set aside 
your concept of Show Hard Home 

1745
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,840
to get at these book events. 
Though a lot of the basics do 

1746
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:35,720
align and some of the visual 
elements. 

1747
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:39,880
For example, I do expect the 
others to attack the refugees 

1748
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:41,120
there. 
That is probably going to 

1749
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:42,720
happen. 
Mel Melisandre has a dream about

1750
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:43,720
it. 
We'll we'll get to that. 

1751
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:48,920
I do expect they're coming to to
be felt by extreme cold, which 

1752
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:52,200
is what they always do, and seen
in the form of mist, which is 

1753
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:55,280
also in Melisandre's dream. 
The show gave us great Gray 

1754
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:58,720
cliffs overlooking wooden walls 
with flaming arrows, a huge 

1755
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:02,320
harbor with ships, which is all 
right on, that's all right. 

1756
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:03,560
That's all what we're told 
about. 

1757
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:05,800
Book Hard Home too. 
So if you're trying to picture 

1758
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:07,920
some of that, which is difficult
because we don't see it on 

1759
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,400
screen in the book so it's like 
you kind of have to go to 

1760
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,040
another source. 
We don't like to use the show 

1761
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:17,120
for for things like this but it 
does happen to fit pretty well 

1762
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,280
if you're if you're careful with
what images you use and which 

1763
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,280
ones you don't. 
And the end result will probably

1764
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,960
be pretty similar to a victory 
for the others is probably 

1765
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:29,320
likely not just a win and that 
they defeated the humans, but 

1766
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,920
that the and a win that they add
so many new bodies to their 

1767
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:36,080
army. 
The very thing John tells Bowen 

1768
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:38,880
Marsh, the the reason they 
should be concerned with 

1769
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,680
Hardhome in the 1st place is 
that the very addition to the 

1770
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,040
Others army. 
He tells them that he tells the 

1771
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,200
other night to watch officers 
that, and they just don't really

1772
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,200
have an answer for him. 
They're like the wall. 

1773
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,480
It will stop them. 
Like well actually that's not a 

1774
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:54,880
bad answer. 
It might stop them, but it's 

1775
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:59,480
still it's still iffy. 
John's plan is iffy too, to be 

1776
01:25:59,480 --> 01:26:00,920
fair. 
Like he he might. 

1777
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:05,040
He might be chasing lost money. 
You know, like chasing losses. 

1778
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:07,720
It's too late for this. 
It's maybe the people at 

1779
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,000
Hardhome are already doomed. 
You may not be able to save 

1780
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,080
them. 
But let's talk about the dream 

1781
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:15,160
and the letter to sort through 
all this. 

1782
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:18,160
I didn't even talk to you about 
this or put in a document, but a

1783
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:22,680
thought has gone through my mind
that could Melisandre's vision 

1784
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:26,640
be something from the past. 
She might not be seeing Hardhome

1785
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:28,400
now. 
She might be seeing Hardhome in 

1786
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,800
the past. 
I no, not big on this. 

1787
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:33,560
It's just something that 
occurred to me, especially 

1788
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:35,280
because you misinterprets things
a lot. 

1789
01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:38,120
But I, and I don't know why 
George would have her have this 

1790
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:40,920
vision if it wasn't immediately.
Well, let's just talk about 

1791
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,600
that. 
Let's, let's talk about that 

1792
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:45,040
when we get to the to that 
point. 

1793
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:47,640
So John, John decides he's going
to hard him. 

1794
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:49,280
He decides he's going to lead 
the ranging there. 

1795
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:52,600
He decides he can't because he 
then gets the pink letter. 

1796
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,920
So it's like he gets a letter 
from Cotter Pike and then he 

1797
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:57,640
gets a letter from Ramsey 
Bolton. 

1798
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,680
Or maybe from Ramsey Bolton, 
whatever the pink letter. 

1799
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,200
And this is some tragic irony 
because not only does it lead to

1800
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:06,320
his assassination, but it's a 
loss of focus. 

1801
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,720
It Harkins back to the final 
lesson learned in book one? 

1802
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,640
No. 
The real war is to the north and

1803
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:12,560
he he he shuns that for the war 
to the South. 

1804
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:14,840
Even though maybe going to 
Hardhome isn't that good of an 

1805
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:16,760
idea. 
Maybe potentially it's it's it's

1806
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,640
not a better idea to necessarily
go fight Ramsay Bolton. 

1807
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,920
The true war is there. 
So he he's he's prioritizing the

1808
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:24,400
Southern problem over the 
Northern one. 

1809
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,920
It's debatable. 
I mean, arguably settling the 

1810
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,360
South is necessary in order to 
properly fight the other. 

1811
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:31,800
So that's the thing. 
Whatever you think. 

1812
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,000
But I wish. 
I wish that thought was more 

1813
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,360
clear in John's mind. 
Does that make sense? 

1814
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:40,800
I wish we got that idea from him
more so because that's what I 

1815
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:42,800
that's the way I justify what 
he's doing. 

1816
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,360
Because otherwise it seems like,
like I said, it's such a 

1817
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:47,840
distraction. 
It might even be like a little 

1818
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:50,200
bit of power corrupting him, you
know, he's, he's kind of in 

1819
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:52,240
charge now. 
He's standing up to the king and

1820
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:54,840
oh, someone's in my hometown. 
Let me go show them what's up, 

1821
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,400
never mind what's been driving 
me all along, you know? 

1822
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,560
So it doesn't matter necessarily
what you and I think the 

1823
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:06,640
officers of the watch made their
points clear by driving them 

1824
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:09,760
into John's body. 
But before the stabbing, most of

1825
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,040
the officers argue that, yeah, 
John shouldn't care, it's not 

1826
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:17,200
their concern, blah, blah, blah.
So John's problem is that he 

1827
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:22,240
just, it's maybe a literal, as 
Nina says, the sunk, the sunk 

1828
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,600
cost fallacy, sending ships 
there, which is what he does. 

1829
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,160
The the first thing he does is 
send ships up there before he 

1830
01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:30,920
leads ranging. 
And then Cotter Pike says, hey, 

1831
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,520
it's going really badly. 
We need that's the dead things 

1832
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:37,920
in the water letter, right. 
So he's like and Cotter says the

1833
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,840
seas are wracked by storms. 
You have to send help over land.

1834
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:43,680
And that's when he decides to go
and then changes his mind 

1835
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,800
because of the pink letter. 
All of this is in one chapter, 

1836
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,520
mind you, not the first letter 
that he sends to Cotter. 

1837
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,840
He gets a letter from Cotter 
that like when Cotter says we're

1838
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,560
leaving, we're going there now. 
And then there's a follow up, 

1839
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:56,080
which is the dead things in the 
Water letter. 

1840
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:58,360
All that is John's last chapter 
in the Dance of Dragons. 

1841
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,520
To be clear, The dead things in 
the water letter, the pink 

1842
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:05,600
letter, and the stabbing all 
happened in that last chapter, 

1843
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:07,680
all the stuff about Hardham. 
So that's why I brought up at 

1844
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,320
the beginning. 
It's easy to let Hardhome get a 

1845
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:12,400
little lost in the shuffle. 
I mean that one chapter alone 

1846
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:15,240
has so much going on, let alone 
all the other times Hardhome 

1847
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,680
comes up and and before that or 
all the other plot lines going 

1848
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:23,520
on. 
So this is similar to it's also 

1849
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:26,240
Nina points out the other 
fallacy. 

1850
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,680
The other bad idea aspect of 
this is look at what happened 

1851
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:31,440
with the great ranging. 
They go to the fifth of the 

1852
01:29:31,440 --> 01:29:33,400
first men. 
They do all this stuff. 

1853
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:35,520
It was a huge failure. 
It was not a good idea. 

1854
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,520
It didn't go well. 
So what is why would this go 

1855
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,360
well? 
This, this is, this seems worse.

1856
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:46,120
This seems like a worse idea. 
Fewer people marching towards a 

1857
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,360
definitive enemy. 
Whereas before they were like, 

1858
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:50,600
we're going to see what's out 
there now you know the enemy is 

1859
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:52,760
there. 
Now you know that the free folk 

1860
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:54,440
are there starving. 
You know you don't have enough 

1861
01:29:54,440 --> 01:29:58,160
food for them. 
So yeah, what do you do? 

1862
01:29:58,160 --> 01:29:59,120
What? 
How do you, how is he going to 

1863
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:00,440
handle this? 
So there's there are a lot of 

1864
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:02,040
problems here. 
Like we respect John for his 

1865
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:04,600
heroism if we're wanting to do 
the right thing, but sometimes 

1866
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,840
you just can't. 
And that's where you like kind 

1867
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,040
of see the argument from the his
officers. 

1868
01:30:09,480 --> 01:30:10,720
I don't agree with him stabbing 
him. 

1869
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:14,080
But you know, like you, we it's 
like we don't have enough food 

1870
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:16,000
for them is a that's a 
legitimate problem. 

1871
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,840
Even that is is cold. 
No pun as this might be. 

1872
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:24,040
But even if they go get those 
free folk from Hardhome and 

1873
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,480
bring them to the wall, and then
they starve to death, that's 

1874
01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:29,640
still better than letting them 
die and become part of the army 

1875
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,000
of Undead and Hardhome. 
Right. 

1876
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:32,760
It's ruthless, but it's true, 
yeah. 

1877
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:36,160
And a large percent may end up 
starving if they bring it back, 

1878
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:38,880
but at least there's some chance
that they could try to keep them

1879
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:40,600
alive. 
Never mind they're being added 

1880
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:42,960
to the enemy army, but there's 
no hope. 

1881
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:44,880
There's nothing they can 
possibly do if they just leave 

1882
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,640
them alone at heart, home. 
So there's some chance it's some

1883
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:49,680
way they'll find a way to feed 
them if they can get them back 

1884
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:51,520
to the walls. 
Let's talk about the letter from

1885
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:53,360
Cotter Pike, the second one, the
one that really matters. 

1886
01:30:53,440 --> 01:30:55,960
As big as they are, Roberts, 
Will, Rob's Will, and the Pink 

1887
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:58,600
letter might actually be all 
less important than this one. 

1888
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,560
I've personally find this one 
more interesting. 

1889
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:02,480
It's more mysterious, more 
captivating. 

1890
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:06,160
I know you've heard it before, 
but this one never gets old. 

1891
01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:07,800
It's always one of the best 
quote. 

1892
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:13,960
At Hardhome with six ships, wild
seas Blackbird lost with all 

1893
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:18,400
hands 2 Lysenti ships driven 
aground on Skein. 

1894
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:22,200
Talon taking water. 
Very bad here. 

1895
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:26,880
Wildlings eating their own dead 
dead things in the woods. 

1896
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:31,800
Vivosi captains will only take 
women children on their ships, 

1897
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:36,000
which women call us slavers, 
attempt to take. 

1898
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:42,400
Stormcrow defeated. 6 crew dead,
many wildlings, 8 Ravens left 

1899
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:45,880
dead. 
Things in the water send help by

1900
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:52,560
land, seas racked by storms from
Tallin by hand of Maester Har 

1901
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:55,880
Moon. 
Wow, that always gets me. 

1902
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,640
It's kind of dark and heavy, so 
it's hard for me to make a joke 

1903
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,000
here, but it reminds me of Kevin
in the office when he wanted to 

1904
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:07,120
use less words. 
Send help by land dead things in

1905
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:09,560
Yeah, that's. 
Yeah, exactly so. 

1906
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:14,280
I use more word less work. 
Fine Blackbird lost with all 

1907
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,440
hands. 
Pour one out for old Tattersalt 

1908
01:32:16,440 --> 01:32:18,280
and the crew he was second in 
command to Cotter. 

1909
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:20,640
On this mission is an actual 
Nights Watch vessel. 

1910
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:23,320
Unlike some of the others which 
were commandeered this it was 

1911
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:25,760
the largest of the nights watch 
ships and it's the ship that 

1912
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:28,160
took Sam and Gilly and and 
Maester Ayman to Bravos. 

1913
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:33,040
So too bad the way Cotter's note
just casually and separately 

1914
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:35,440
mentions dead things in the 
woods and dead things in the 

1915
01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:36,720
water. 
It's not like back-to-back. 

1916
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,760
He's like dead things in the 
water blah blah blah blah blah 

1917
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,040
blah dead things in the like 
wait what was that? 

1918
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:42,360
You know dead What are you 
talking? 

1919
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:44,400
Yikes. 
You know And that's how it's 

1920
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:46,960
becoming. 
It's becoming normal to mention 

1921
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:49,480
dead creed like Walking Dead. 
It's just it's not it's it isn't

1922
01:32:49,480 --> 01:32:51,480
something you need to explain 
anymore. 

1923
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:53,040
It's like, Oh yeah, that's a 
thing. 

1924
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:55,360
We before it was like what? 
Dead thing's walking. 

1925
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:56,920
That's crazy. 
No, no, it's not. 

1926
01:32:57,800 --> 01:32:59,600
It's it's become normal. 
I mean, it is still kind of 

1927
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,680
crazy, but you shouldn't be 
doubting it anymore. 

1928
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,360
Yeah, And the North, at least 
it's it's normal. 

1929
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:07,040
I wonder how. 
I wonder how Stannis receives 

1930
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:08,200
this. 
Yeah, right. 

1931
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:10,880
Is he considered normal yet? 
Has he bought in? 

1932
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:12,320
Good question. 
Yeah. 

1933
01:33:12,480 --> 01:33:15,200
So it's a glimpse of what to 
come too. 

1934
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:17,680
And even when this knowledge 
gets even farther, when everyone

1935
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:20,320
is just speaking about the 
undead, as a matter of fact, 

1936
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:22,960
because that's just a part of 
this world, you know, they they 

1937
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:25,720
haven't quite become normal yet 
in terms of people speaking 

1938
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:27,480
about them that way, but they're
getting, it's getting there. 

1939
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,640
So there's two Licenti ships to 
ground on Skein. 

1940
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:31,720
Those were two of the ones. 
Those are, those are two of the 

1941
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,880
ones commandeered. 
Rather, those were two leftover 

1942
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:36,760
from Salador. 
San Salador had to leave them 

1943
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:40,080
behind because they were not 
seaworthy and the Nights Watch 

1944
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,440
just kind of kept them and fixed
them back up a bit. 

1945
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:44,320
But they weren't in good shape 
when they left. 

1946
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:46,720
They were barely seaworthy at 
the time. 

1947
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:50,280
So will anyone from Skagos learn
that those ships landed on 

1948
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:53,000
Skein? 
Is this a Rickon tie in somehow 

1949
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:54,880
or just are they in big trouble?
Are they going to get 

1950
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:57,480
cannibalized? 
Are the dead things in the water

1951
01:33:57,600 --> 01:33:59,840
sailors from the ships that 
sank? 

1952
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:03,400
Is old Tattersall a white now an
underwater white? 

1953
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:07,680
Yikes. 
So if we think back on Cotter's 

1954
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:10,560
first letter, the first one was 
that he said, OK, I'm leaving, 

1955
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:13,600
I'm going 11. 
My 11 ship fleet is sailing the,

1956
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:19,560
the and he has 20 Ravens with 
him, 20 good Ravens and at the 

1957
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:23,320
point of this letter he says 8 
Ravens left and six ships. 

1958
01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:27,160
The five ships have been lost 
and 12 Ravens, I guess. 

1959
01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:29,960
And although some of them were 
probably just, you know, sent 

1960
01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:34,280
back, still, that's like by the 
time, that letter, it's entirely

1961
01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:36,680
possible by the time that John 
is reading that letter, all the 

1962
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:38,880
ships are sung by that. 
Maybe that's going a little too 

1963
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:40,400
far. 
Maybe a couple survived. 

1964
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,120
Maybe one or three made it back 
to Eastwatch. 

1965
01:34:43,480 --> 01:34:44,920
Which ships? 
Who knows. 

1966
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:46,920
The Bravosi ships might be like,
we're out of here. 

1967
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:48,560
We're not going to Eastwatch, 
We're going to Bravos. 

1968
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:50,120
We're getting out of here. 
They commandeered us. 

1969
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:53,040
But if we go back to Bravo, what
are they going to do, come after

1970
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:54,480
us? 
The Nights Watch when they're in

1971
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:56,080
the in the middle of this? 
I don't think so. 

1972
01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:00,200
So it'd be a way to escape. 
The quote in there says which 

1973
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,920
women call us slavers. 
That doesn't seem to be true. 

1974
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:05,600
I don't think the Nights Watch 
is engaging in slavery, but they

1975
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,000
had just experienced that the 
two other licenti ships, the 

1976
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,480
good heart and the elephant that
we spoke on, they absolutely 

1977
01:35:11,480 --> 01:35:14,040
were engaged in slavery. 
So they see more ships with 

1978
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:17,360
probably similar design, similar
looking people. 

1979
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:20,480
They're probably going to think 
that's more slavers. 

1980
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:23,160
That was a consideration John 
had, too, when he's trying to 

1981
01:35:23,160 --> 01:35:25,160
figure out how to deal with 
this. 

1982
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:27,880
He wanted to send some women 
with the contingency to hard 

1983
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,200
homes so they'd be less likely 
to be seen as slavers. 

1984
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:33,120
Right, you're right. 
That's very thoughtful of John. 

1985
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:37,520
Although again, it's maybe, you 
know, sunk fallacy that that's a

1986
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:39,680
too much of A pun there. 
Sunk cost fallacy. 

1987
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:42,960
Literally sunk ships fallacy. 
I also wonder by the way, if 

1988
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:46,040
those ships, those Bravosi 
ships, if they did go back to 

1989
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:50,080
Bravos, what the reaction would 
be because that's it would be so

1990
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:53,000
fantastic. 
You know, it might take a minute

1991
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:56,560
for people to even believe it, 
much less think it's a personal 

1992
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:58,880
concern. 
But how close is Bravo? 

1993
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:02,880
So would they be worried like 
because I don't know if anyone 

1994
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:05,840
just says, Oh well the the on 
day I can't get across the water

1995
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:07,680
so we're not worried. 
They might be a little worried 

1996
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:09,840
across the water. 
Yeah, that that would be the 

1997
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:11,520
first question they ask. 
Can those guys sail? 

1998
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:15,200
Do they have volcanic rafts like
like after Krakatoa? 

1999
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:17,600
Yeah, so it's pretty darn far. 
It's a lot of ocean. 

2000
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:20,440
But yeah, you might be you. 
You'd be very thankful for that 

2001
01:36:20,440 --> 01:36:22,480
ocean. 
Probably in between it though if

2002
01:36:22,480 --> 01:36:23,640
you're hearing about things like
that. 

2003
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:27,720
And also in terms of the 
slavery, Arya, she hears that 

2004
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:30,320
amongst sailors chatting about 
it that there's probably going 

2005
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:33,000
to be more like any ships coming
to try to get more slaves. 

2006
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:37,320
And partly because the price of 
slavers has gone up thanks to 

2007
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:40,680
Daenerys wreaking havoc on the 
slave trade and and freeing so 

2008
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:43,160
many slaves. 
And that's partly why people are

2009
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:45,000
going farther away to try to 
find new ones. 

2010
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:49,400
So, and of course, if any if any
free folk are brought to Bravos,

2011
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:52,640
they're obviously not going to 
be enslaved by the Bravosi, and 

2012
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:55,640
they might actually end up in an
decent spot. 

2013
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:58,640
Those who aren't though, I don't
know, maybe some of them get 

2014
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,160
back to East Watch. 
Maybe some of them do end up on 

2015
01:37:01,160 --> 01:37:04,720
the right side of the wall and 
are actually able to help in the

2016
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,680
coming fight. 
Some of them would take up arms 

2017
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:15,080
and be ready to go when the time
comes, but free folk at 

2018
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:18,960
Eastwatch could cause the same 
problems that Free folk at 

2019
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:20,920
Castle Black is causing. 
I mean there's they're just not 

2020
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:22,560
getting along for kind of 
obvious reasons. 

2021
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:25,840
And you don't have a guy like 
John there to necessarily be the

2022
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:27,720
go between. 
Well, even Castle Black doesn't 

2023
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:32,560
have that now to kind of make 
that work, if it's even possible

2024
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,600
to make it work. 
So yeah, they're going to have a

2025
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:40,200
lot of chaos at Eastwatch too, 
given maybe half of their men 

2026
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:44,040
were just ground and those who 
survive might be bringing back 

2027
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:46,800
hungry mouths to feed. 
Or it might be bitter towards 

2028
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:47,920
those people. 
I don't know. 

2029
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:50,080
Yeah, it's bad. 
The wall is in horrible, 

2030
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:51,600
horrible shape. 
And it's not just because the 

2031
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:54,720
others are coming, other that's 
a lot of the reason why the 

2032
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:56,080
horrible things are happening in
advance. 

2033
01:37:56,080 --> 01:37:59,680
But still, a lot of it's 
starvation and winter that it's 

2034
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:01,760
not, you know, would have maybe 
been happening anyway. 

2035
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:05,360
Let's talk about Melisandre's 
dream, because again, we don't 

2036
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:07,920
have a first hand POV there. 
We haven't seen it 

2037
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:11,040
straightforwardly. 
We have to look at it from these

2038
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:14,040
indirect angles. 
Again though, her visions or 

2039
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:16,000
interpretations are not always 
accurate. 

2040
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:17,760
In fact, they're often not 
accurate. 

2041
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:22,520
Sometimes they are, and this 
appears to be one of those 

2042
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,040
cases. 
The details line up so well and 

2043
01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:29,680
don't really fit anything else 
that it seems like it works. 

2044
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,920
It seems like we've got a a 
winner here in terms of a of 

2045
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:34,880
matching the dream to the 
reality, which sometimes we 

2046
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,000
can't do. 
She doesn't know what she's 

2047
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:38,840
seeing. 
So this is our interpretation. 

2048
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:41,360
It's not Melisandre saying, oh, 
I see this, I see this, oh, I 

2049
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:43,320
know what this is. 
No, she has no idea what she's 

2050
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:46,160
seeing, but we do because of the
descriptions. 

2051
01:38:46,440 --> 01:38:49,600
In her solitary but very 
illuminated chapter, Melisandre 

2052
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:53,440
asks the Lord of Light for a 
vision of Stannis for your king,

2053
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:56,040
your instrument. 
She sees a lot of things. 

2054
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:02,040
None of it really seems to be 
ready to Stannis, but this part 

2055
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,880
seems to be very related to our 
subject today quote. 

2056
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:10,480
Snowflakes swirled from a dark 
sky, and ashes rose to meet 

2057
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:13,000
them. 
The Gray and the white whirling 

2058
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:16,760
around each other as flaming 
arrows arced above a wooden 

2059
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:21,520
wall, and dead things shambled 
silent through the cold beneath 

2060
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:26,480
a great Gray Cliff where fires 
burned inside 100 caves. 

2061
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:31,120
Then the wind rose and the white
mist came, sweeping in, 

2062
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:35,920
impossibly cold, and 1 by 1, the
fires went out. 

2063
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:39,560
Afterward, only the skulls 
remained. 

2064
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:44,200
Death, thought Melisandre. 
The skulls are death well. 

2065
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:47,640
Yeah, of course they are. 
I mean, all the people vanished 

2066
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:49,600
and replaced by skulls. 
Yeah, that's a that's a pretty 

2067
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:51,320
easy interpretation. 
We're worth you there, 

2068
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:53,000
Melisandre. 
But she didn't know what else 

2069
01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:56,080
was going on. 
However, that is very clearly 

2070
01:39:56,080 --> 01:40:00,120
hard home Great Gray Clift where
fires burn inside 100 caves, 

2071
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:02,360
yes. 
Flaming arrows arc above a 

2072
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:05,160
wooden wall. 
That's we see that in the show 

2073
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,800
version which pretty likely they
got that from this. 

2074
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:10,320
They read this section were like
how can we make that look that 

2075
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:12,000
way? 
And despite your your theory 

2076
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,200
about maybe seeing this in the 
past, it's possible. 

2077
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:17,200
Doesn't really work though, 
because the others weren't 

2078
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:22,600
active then and that's even the 
free folk would say that, so it 

2079
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:25,320
doesn't. 
That's why we're pretty amongst 

2080
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:27,080
Melisandre visions. 
This is one of the ones where 

2081
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:29,920
the most confident about because
it just doesn't really fit 

2082
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:32,120
anywhere else. 
Anything else we've seen, it 

2083
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:34,720
fits Harlem extremely well and 
nothing else particularly well 

2084
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:35,800
at all. 
Remember when we talked about, 

2085
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,680
remember when we covered the TV 
show and there is Danny's dream 

2086
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:40,600
in season 2? 
It was like their version of the

2087
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:42,520
House of the Undying. 
And there was that endless 

2088
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:46,760
debate over, is that ash or snow
in the snow in the throne room? 

2089
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:49,400
Well, here we have them both. 
I love that the Gray and the 

2090
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,040
white whirling together, dark 
sky snowflakes swirled from a 

2091
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:54,680
dark sky and ashes rose me. 
Yeah, maybe it was both Then 

2092
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:55,800
too. 
I think we, I think we did 

2093
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:57,600
suggest that possibility. 
That may have been both. 

2094
01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:01,920
Anyway, I was chuckling at that 
like this is this is exactly 

2095
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:03,360
that moment. 
Of course, this was written 

2096
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:06,640
before that TV episode, so. 
Especially the context of ice 

2097
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:11,440
and fire like both seems you 
know easily correct. 

2098
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:16,480
So the impossibly cold rising 
white mist, Also that's it's 

2099
01:41:16,480 --> 01:41:18,280
pretty hard to see that as 
anything but the others, and in 

2100
01:41:18,280 --> 01:41:21,320
fact that's exactly the language
Torment uses to describe them, 

2101
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:25,040
he says. 
White mists rising up and air is

2102
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:27,720
so cold it hurts to breathe. 
Impossibly cold. 

2103
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:30,240
That sounds really bad. 
The air is so cold it hurts to 

2104
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:32,560
breathe. 
But there's never been a more 

2105
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:35,800
distinct and powerful 
description of just how cold the

2106
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:38,600
others are than this one. 
Because what's being implied 

2107
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,840
here is that the volcano is 
being extinguished, at least 

2108
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:45,280
above the above a certain level.
Not like all the way down 

2109
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:47,520
beneath the Earth, but maybe, I 
mean, probably not that. 

2110
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:50,440
But the fires that are in The 
Cave, the screaming caves, were 

2111
01:41:50,440 --> 01:41:53,320
probably shut off by the 
presence of the other. 

2112
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:56,520
They probably stopped screaming.
It's like it went silent because

2113
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:59,720
of them, Which is almost more 
scary than the screaming of the 

2114
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:01,800
caves is when the screaming 
caves went silent because 

2115
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,960
they're intimidated by the 
others and they're cold. 

2116
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:08,760
Is so cold, so impossibly cold 
as it says that the volcano 

2117
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:12,720
stops. 
It's temporarily just too cold 

2118
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:14,480
for the magma. 
Everything just cools off. 

2119
01:42:14,480 --> 01:42:20,240
It's like, Oh my God, that is 
way colder than I imagine. 

2120
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:22,680
I mean that. 
No wonder Waymar Royce's sword 

2121
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:24,920
shattered. 
No wonder Tormund's child just 

2122
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:27,000
died in the night. 
No wonder other people die in 

2123
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:28,400
the night because it's that 
cold. 

2124
01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:32,160
Wow. 
I mean nothing is approached 

2125
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:34,760
that level of explaining just 
how cold it gets. 

2126
01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:39,040
I mean whoa so here's something 
else in in addition to that so 

2127
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:42,040
that that's this is the kind of 
if we're looking at our our 

2128
01:42:42,040 --> 01:42:45,160
existing grand magic overlap 
theory, it's almost like this is

2129
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:47,400
the kind of thing that the 
sorcerers of Valyria would have 

2130
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:49,680
done to keep the volcanoes from 
going off. 

2131
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:53,480
Maybe not to this degree and 
maybe they're they had more 

2132
01:42:53,480 --> 01:42:55,920
control over fire than using ice
to block it. 

2133
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:59,880
But it's similar like in concept
like they're tamping the fire 

2134
01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:02,000
somehow. 
It's like if you were someone's 

2135
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:05,280
if you were like a a sorcerer 
Prince of Valyria. 

2136
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:07,600
This is the kind of magical 
philosophy you'd be studying 

2137
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:11,040
like the elementals, how they 
work together and is it better 

2138
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:14,080
to control fire to to to to 
reduce fire or is it better to 

2139
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:16,000
control ice to to battle against
fire? 

2140
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:18,160
Like, which of these things 
works better if you're a 

2141
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:21,160
spellcaster is the kind of 
things you might be delving 

2142
01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:22,920
into. 
But for us, we're just like, oh,

2143
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:24,520
I have no idea how these things 
work. 

2144
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:27,080
It's just, oh, it's just wow, 
this is powerful. 

2145
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,760
It's like 1. 
It's this one rock meets hard 

2146
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:32,080
place. 
It's not yes, there's the idea 

2147
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:34,400
of being caught between the two,
but this is what happens when 

2148
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:36,880
they actually collide. 
It looks like hard place is 

2149
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:39,360
beaten rock. 
The cold is overwhelming the 

2150
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,520
fire. 
You know the it's another, I 

2151
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:43,320
don't know, potential 
motivation. 

2152
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:45,760
The idea that the Children of 
the Forest created the others. 

2153
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:49,200
What if they created them to 
stop volcanic forces? 

2154
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:54,160
Cold powers to counter hot 
powers, you know. 

2155
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:56,400
Yeah, that works. 
I mean, absolutely. 

2156
01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:59,360
I mean there's a lot of things 
about that that that fit. 

2157
01:43:59,440 --> 01:44:01,400
It's reflective of the others 
too in their in their nature, 

2158
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:05,320
which is that they are a force 
of nature but turned up to 11 

2159
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:06,960
like the wall itself or 
something like that. 

2160
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:09,880
Yes, they are bringing the cold.
The cold is a part of nature, 

2161
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:11,720
but it's supernaturally 
enhanced. 

2162
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:16,960
So Hardholm has had the full ice
and fire treatment. 600 years 

2163
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:22,440
ago it exploded and now it's 
consumed by ice or about to be, 

2164
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:25,680
including the very fires of the 
earth. 

2165
01:44:27,560 --> 01:44:29,560
Let's talk a little about Mother
Mole. 

2166
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:32,760
More on Mother Mole or more on 
Mother Mole. 

2167
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:35,360
Which is it? 
Is she a foolish fanatic who led

2168
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:38,520
her people to ruin or simply the
vassal of tragic prophecy? 

2169
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:42,600
After all, her vision was right 
to a certain degree. 

2170
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:44,680
Ships did arrive. 
Technically, some people were 

2171
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:50,080
taken South, and if any nights 
watch ships escape, more, more 

2172
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:52,240
of them could escape. 
But here's where we consider 

2173
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:54,880
this from another angle. 
Rather than considering her and 

2174
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:58,760
whether she's being honest or 
whether which we think she 

2175
01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:00,120
probably is. 
But let's consider it from a 

2176
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:02,200
different angle. 
In a world where dreams can be 

2177
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:07,120
visited, encouraged, or even 
planted 3 Eyed Crow showing up 

2178
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:09,920
in Brands Dreams, Quafe 
apparently showing up in Danny's

2179
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:13,840
Probably by Glass candle. 
Whatever the means, it seems to 

2180
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:18,160
be a thing in this world. 
Maybe Mother Mole was given that

2181
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:21,240
dream by some source. 
If Bloodraven can go into brand 

2182
01:45:21,240 --> 01:45:23,240
streams, why can't the others go
into people's dreams? 

2183
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:26,800
Well, maybe 'cause 'cause they 
can't, But it's not some crazy 

2184
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:28,400
idea that just comes out of 
nowhere. 

2185
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:31,280
It's high magicky, but it's 
supported the ideas. 

2186
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:33,960
There's, there's precedent set 
for this, yeah. 

2187
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:36,040
So why? 
Come up with a million reasons 

2188
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:39,320
why it couldn't be but there is 
but but you might need to 

2189
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:40,480
because there's precedent for 
it. 

2190
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:42,640
So you see how the others would 
benefit from this. 

2191
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:46,120
They trick all these refugees 
that are scattered all along a 

2192
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:49,040
lot of different places into 
kind of all coalescing in one 

2193
01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:51,800
spot where they can overwhelm 
them and add them to their army.

2194
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:55,680
They benefit from this dream far
more than anyone else. 

2195
01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:59,320
It's not necessary, though it's 
not necessary to explain this. 

2196
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:02,360
People doing desperate things 
and desperate times within a 

2197
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:07,400
supernatural setting is not 
necessary to explain this, but 

2198
01:46:07,400 --> 01:46:10,680
it fits and George does like to 
hit us with the both he likes. 

2199
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:14,480
Why not both type explanations? 
Why not have some supernatural 

2200
01:46:14,480 --> 01:46:17,480
influence? 
Why not have a little cruel 

2201
01:46:17,480 --> 01:46:20,600
undercurrent of fake dreaming to
to make this happen? 

2202
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:23,480
But again, not necessary. 
Everything works without this 

2203
01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:24,840
theory. 
It all could have just happened 

2204
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:30,080
the way it does, but I like the 
idea as potentially entertaining

2205
01:46:30,480 --> 01:46:35,040
a potentially way to explain 
give the others even more like 

2206
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,760
evil intelligence. 
Another angle by the way is it 

2207
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:43,480
if John or whoever can't rescue 
these people then it would 

2208
01:46:43,480 --> 01:46:44,760
benefit the others more than 
anyone. 

2209
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:48,680
But if they can then that would 
might be AI don't know 

2210
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:52,640
motivation of blood Raven right 
to if he can plant this dream to

2211
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:57,680
get all these free folk in one 
place where there's a port that 

2212
01:46:57,680 --> 01:46:59,880
the nights watcher whoever could
come rescue them, then that will

2213
01:46:59,880 --> 01:47:03,680
stop the others from 
accumulating all these bodies 

2214
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:05,880
around the north that are going 
to end up dying of starvation 

2215
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:07,320
and cold and everything you know
so. 

2216
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:09,600
They would have collected all 
those refugees and eventually 

2217
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,800
anyway, if they were split apart
this way, at least 20% of them 

2218
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:16,000
get away. 
You know the the other method, 

2219
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:17,520
none of them get away or almost 
none. 

2220
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:19,840
OK, yeah, another rock and a 
hard place. 

2221
01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:22,200
Well, it's better to save 20% 
than 0%, you know? 

2222
01:47:22,480 --> 01:47:26,920
And and it might also be a a 
more consolidated force that's 

2223
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:30,000
easier for the nights watcher 
whoever to be aware of and deal 

2224
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:33,280
with and etcetera, you know just
kind of scattered everywhere at 

2225
01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:36,000
least there's there's some 
consolidation for them to know 

2226
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:38,160
which direction they're coming 
from or where we need defenses 

2227
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:40,600
to be or how many there are 
etcetera, etcetera. 

2228
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,600
And how similar was Mother 
Maul's dream to Melisandre? 

2229
01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:45,680
Melisandre is out here asking 
for vision. 

2230
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:47,400
So we're talking about giving me
a vision. 

2231
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:49,720
Like, she's literally, that's 
how she interprets it. 

2232
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,240
She's like, I want visions. 
Lord of Light give me visions 

2233
01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:54,880
and they come. 
Now, whether they're actually 

2234
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,480
coming from the Lord of Light is
something we can't answer, but 

2235
01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:02,320
it's just another possible 
explanation for where magical 

2236
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:03,440
dreams can come from in this 
world. 

2237
01:48:03,440 --> 01:48:06,560
They can be given by higher 
powers or whatever. 

2238
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:09,960
There is some overlap in the two
dreams, but there's definitely a

2239
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:11,840
lot of differences. 
Melisandre doesn't dream of them

2240
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:13,240
getting away. 
Mother Mole's dream is more 

2241
01:48:13,240 --> 01:48:14,760
positive. 
At least she interprets it that 

2242
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:16,200
way. 
Now that's that's possibly the 

2243
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:18,960
difference is Mother Mole's 
desperate and is hoping and is 

2244
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:20,600
hoping so she sees it 
positively. 

2245
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:24,040
Where Melisandre, already before
this dream, has expressed that 

2246
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:26,880
the free poker a doomed people. 
So maybe she's kind of seeing 

2247
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:29,880
what she expects to see. 
She sees the all the people, all

2248
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:31,600
the death, all the skulls means 
death. 

2249
01:48:31,840 --> 01:48:35,240
OK, yeah, that's pretty 
straightforward. 

2250
01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:37,120
But that doesn't mean they're 
all going to die. 

2251
01:48:37,280 --> 01:48:40,040
That doesn't mean that you know,
there's no survivor. 

2252
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:40,800
It doesn't. 
Yeah, it doesn't. 

2253
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:42,640
She's not. 
It's not the whole species 

2254
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:44,200
there. 
Not every wildling is in that 

2255
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:45,720
spot. 
And again, but she's not wrong 

2256
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:47,440
all the time. 
And again, the dream seems very 

2257
01:48:47,440 --> 01:48:52,160
specific, so I'm not sure her 
interpretation is biased so much

2258
01:48:52,160 --> 01:48:55,040
as it is straightforward. 
But it it might be, you know, 

2259
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:59,520
one other prophetic individual 
who deserves an episode of their

2260
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:02,840
own one day has sort of weighed 
in on Hardhome as well. 

2261
01:49:02,840 --> 01:49:06,480
I almost missed this, caught it 
late last night and I was just 

2262
01:49:06,600 --> 01:49:09,040
reviewing some of the kind of 
going back through the books to 

2263
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,240
start looking for talk about 
Hardhome. 

2264
01:49:11,240 --> 01:49:13,840
Reading a little further and I 
was like, whoa, I can't believe 

2265
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:16,840
I almost missed this one. 
You will recognize who this is 

2266
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:20,400
by their manner of speaking, and
it comes as they're Speaking of 

2267
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:22,720
who will lead the expedition to 
Hardhome. 

2268
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:26,160
I will lead it. 
His bells rang merrily. 

2269
01:49:26,440 --> 01:49:29,920
We will March into the sea and 
out again under the waves. 

2270
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:33,280
We will ride seahorses and 
Mermaids will blow seashells to 

2271
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:36,640
announce our coming 000. 
Everyone laugh. 

2272
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:39,240
Even Solis laughs like Solis, 
who was humorless. 

2273
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:40,880
She laughs. 
But John does not laugh. 

2274
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:42,600
I'm with John. 
Nothing. 

2275
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:43,920
Patch face says. 
It's funny. 

2276
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:47,920
Everything says is creepy. 
Speaks to her bad sense of 

2277
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:49,720
humor. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2278
01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:51,880
Only like horrifying things make
her laugh. 

2279
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:56,160
Yeah, into the sea and out again
Sounds too much like dead things

2280
01:49:56,160 --> 01:50:00,640
in the water. 
Which patch face is he Is a dead

2281
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:03,760
thing from the water apparently.
Like he died and came back. 

2282
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:05,120
That is the story we hear about 
him. 

2283
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:08,680
He was the person was like, no, 
he felt dead That those that was

2284
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:12,760
a dead person that stood back up
and started talking in prophecy.

2285
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:16,840
And look at the wording mermaids
will blow seashells to announce 

2286
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:21,720
our coming 0003 seashell blasts.
Excuse me. 

2287
01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:24,200
Wow. 
Yeah. 

2288
01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:27,560
Watch out for Patch Face. 
See what is why are people 

2289
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:29,040
laughing at that? 
That is scary. 

2290
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:32,080
Y'all are foolish to laugh at 
that. 

2291
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:33,360
Yes. 
Oh my goodness. 

2292
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:35,640
Yeah, that is crazy. 
Oh, oh oh. 

2293
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:37,480
Like I said, Patch Face will get
an episode one day. 

2294
01:50:37,480 --> 01:50:40,640
We'll have to do that. 
But we've also many people in 

2295
01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:42,920
the fandom, including us, have 
explore the notion that under 

2296
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:48,320
the sea means in winter or 
during, you know, the long night

2297
01:50:48,320 --> 01:50:49,960
or something like that. 
It's not clear. 

2298
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,840
But a lot of the his prophecies 
kind of if you look at it in 

2299
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:56,040
that light they fit better or 
could explain some things. 

2300
01:50:56,360 --> 01:50:59,520
But anyway that that's we'll 
save more of that for a Patch 

2301
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:01,680
Face episode. 
Also I'm just kind of you know 

2302
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:04,160
I'm one of those people that's 
kind of scared of clowns. 

2303
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:06,800
So Patch face just just 
picturing him is a little bit 

2304
01:51:06,800 --> 01:51:08,160
scary. 
You know like let alone the 

2305
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:09,760
things that are actually coming 
out of his mouth. 

2306
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:14,720
Like if you go by Melisandre's 
visions, blood is coming out of 

2307
01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:17,520
his mouth and one of them with 
skulls all around which she sees

2308
01:51:17,560 --> 01:51:19,000
as death, right? 
Same. 

2309
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:22,560
What's so scary about that is 
he's Is that why we haven't done

2310
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:24,040
an episode on him yet? 
You're too scared. 

2311
01:51:24,120 --> 01:51:26,520
Yes, that's exactly why you. 
I've been outed. 

2312
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:30,360
You figured it out so hard 
home's outlook. 

2313
01:51:30,360 --> 01:51:32,480
Here's where we make some 
predictions. 

2314
01:51:32,480 --> 01:51:35,560
Maybe offer some guesses as to 
what all this means or where it 

2315
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:37,520
might be going on the South side
of the wall. 

2316
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:40,680
Will Torman still lead arranging
there kind of doubt it. 

2317
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:43,280
I mean, John was just stabbed. 
I mean, he was like, you go, you

2318
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:46,960
get your group together, but 
then like 11 gets stabbed, John 

2319
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:49,120
gets stabbed, all this stuff is 
happening. 

2320
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:53,560
It might be too late to go. 
I don't even know. 

2321
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:55,440
I I I'm guessing it's not even 
going to happen. 

2322
01:51:55,640 --> 01:51:58,960
I think there's a chance that 
John being stabbed reinforces 

2323
01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:00,520
it. 
Tournament might not feel 

2324
01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:02,480
welcome there anymore. 
I need to get out of here. 

2325
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:05,440
My ally is gone. 
So I need to go get some of 

2326
01:52:05,440 --> 01:52:07,440
these guys because they will be 
my friends or whatever. 

2327
01:52:07,440 --> 01:52:10,240
They'll at least be on my side. 
And the others might just have 

2328
01:52:10,240 --> 01:52:12,120
already gotten there and taken 
it all. 

2329
01:52:12,120 --> 01:52:16,000
They may have already that that 
those refugees might already be 

2330
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:18,240
whites. 
Those ships might already be 

2331
01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:21,000
sunk. 
And if that's the case, the 

2332
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:23,880
others did have an army already.
It might not have been very big.

2333
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:25,760
It was. 
We saw it at the first of the 

2334
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:27,240
First Men. 
I don't know how many men that 

2335
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:31,040
was, but it was certainly enough
to overwhelm the 300 members of 

2336
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:33,520
the Night's Watch, which isn't 
necessarily saying a lot because

2337
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,560
they picked that spot, the first
of the First Men because of how 

2338
01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:38,680
defensible it was against 
humans. 

2339
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:42,560
They weren't really expecting to
face the undead, and it's a 

2340
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:44,680
whole different game when you're
fighting the undead. 

2341
01:52:44,760 --> 01:52:46,360
They also weren't that prepared 
to fight the undead. 

2342
01:52:46,360 --> 01:52:48,760
They didn't have, like a lot of 
dragon glass weapons. 

2343
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:50,680
They weren't using enough fire 
arrows. 

2344
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:52,360
They started doing that. 
But they yeah, they were 

2345
01:52:52,360 --> 01:52:54,480
prepared to fight people. 
They weren't prepared to fight 

2346
01:52:54,480 --> 01:52:57,880
the undead. 
So either way, it was enough 

2347
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:00,480
men, enough undead to overwhelm 
that group. 

2348
01:53:01,120 --> 01:53:07,640
We're told there's at least 6000
refugees at Hardhome or were. 

2349
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:11,960
So that's most likely far more 
than the others had to this 

2350
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:13,240
point. 
So this is this. 

2351
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:16,960
Now that if this happens the way
we think, this is their army. 

2352
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:19,160
Before they had, you know like a
squad. 

2353
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:21,320
Maybe they had a a legion, one 
legion. 

2354
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:25,840
Now they have a whole shebang, 
whatever word you want to use 

2355
01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:29,360
that describes a large amount of
people or Walking Dead. 

2356
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:34,560
Same difference I guess. 
So that this is at least a 

2357
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:36,680
tripling or quadrupling. 
I'm guessing more than that 

2358
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:40,920
though. 
And which brings us back to the 

2359
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,560
idea of slavers. 
We'll hear about this location, 

2360
01:53:43,560 --> 01:53:44,960
and we'll show back up to get 
more slaves. 

2361
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:46,760
What will they actually find 
when they show up? 

2362
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:48,640
We're like, we shouldn't have 
come here. 

2363
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:52,280
Oh my God, what is that? 
Are those undead? 

2364
01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:57,160
Like, turn around, Do not drop 
anchor, Sail back from whence we

2365
01:53:57,160 --> 01:53:58,880
came. 
But maybe they won't. 

2366
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:00,560
You know, they probably won't 
just see that on the shore. 

2367
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:02,360
They'll probably show up and be 
like, what the heck happened 

2368
01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:03,640
here? 
And then awful things might 

2369
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:05,360
happen. 
And of course, as we mentioned 

2370
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:07,840
earlier as well, I want to 
repeat the possible notion that 

2371
01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:09,640
Hardhome could be the trigger 
for Danny. 

2372
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:12,560
The thing that she learns about 
the big event, the big 

2373
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:16,560
swallowing up of many souls that
tells Danny that's where she 

2374
01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:18,680
needs to be. 
Something's got to bring her N 

2375
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:19,880
it won't just be like, hey, we 
need you. 

2376
01:54:20,440 --> 01:54:22,120
She's got to hear about like it 
needs to be suffering. 

2377
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:23,840
It needs to be something big. 
It needs to be something that 

2378
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:27,920
draws her her, someone with her 
personality, a rescuer, as 

2379
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:30,920
Tyrion puts it accurately. 
She is a rescuer. 

2380
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:32,920
She rescued Slavers Bay or is 
trying to. 

2381
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:36,720
She will rescue the people of 
the North if she hears about it 

2382
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:38,560
in time to do to do anything 
about it. 

2383
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:40,560
I wonder if she might not be the
only one. 

2384
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:44,360
She might be the most key and 
powerful figure, but I wonder if

2385
01:54:44,360 --> 01:54:47,640
it might. 
I don't know, young Griff or 

2386
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:51,040
some other Tyrell leader or 
some, you know. 

2387
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:55,560
I wonder if it'll be enough to 
get the attention of the Rome 

2388
01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:56,800
in. 
General the Great. 

2389
01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:59,120
The great difficulty with 
predicting any of that stuff is 

2390
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:01,520
the order of things happen. 
Like what about when is Stannis 

2391
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:02,640
going to? 
Is he going to burn his 

2392
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:04,200
daughter? 
Is the knight for it? 

2393
01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:06,600
Like, what's going to happen as 
a result of why is he going to 

2394
01:55:06,600 --> 01:55:08,560
do that in the 1st place? 
Like, what drives him to do 

2395
01:55:08,560 --> 01:55:09,880
that? 
It won't just be bad weather 

2396
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:12,760
like it was on the show. 
Or and what will the effects of 

2397
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:13,360
it be? 
Yeah. 

2398
01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:14,920
What exactly, What will the 
effects of it be? 

2399
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:16,800
Yeah, like there's a lot we just
can't predict. 

2400
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:18,600
And yeah, when will Danny hear 
about this? 

2401
01:55:19,280 --> 01:55:20,760
Is it during? 
Is it later? 

2402
01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:23,680
Is it much later? 
Yeah, It's just way too hard to 

2403
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:26,920
too many moving, just figuring 
out what's going to happen at 

2404
01:55:26,920 --> 01:55:28,120
the Wall with all those moving 
parts. 

2405
01:55:28,120 --> 01:55:30,720
It's hard enough trying to bring
in Danny and Arya and just 

2406
01:55:31,200 --> 01:55:33,520
forget about it. 
Just literally, absolutely 

2407
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:35,880
forget about it. 
Just wait and see. 

2408
01:55:37,280 --> 01:55:38,760
No, we we we won't forget about 
it. 

2409
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:39,880
We will continue to talk about 
it. 

2410
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:42,760
But I'm I'm saying that to 
acknowledge the difficulty of 

2411
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:45,040
trying to theorize about those 
northern plots. 

2412
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:48,040
With confidence anyway, you can 
theorize a lot, but there's so 

2413
01:55:48,040 --> 01:55:50,000
many moving pieces it's hard to 
be super confident. 

2414
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,000
Yes, The final quote for this 
episode comes from the same 

2415
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:55,920
place we got our first talk of 
the episode where we we we spent

2416
01:55:55,920 --> 01:55:59,760
the beginning with a little bit 
of Veromeer's POV here. 

2417
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:02,200
He speaks of what was happening 
through the refugees from the 

2418
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:05,480
battle at the Wall, Stannis 
versus Mance, in the aftermath 

2419
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:08,600
of that slaughter. 
They had escaped the black 

2420
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:12,960
cloaked crows and the Knights in
their grey steel, but more 

2421
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:17,880
relentless enemies stalked them.
Now every day left more corpses 

2422
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:21,720
by the trails. 
Some died of hunger, some of 

2423
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:26,320
cold, some of sickness. 
Others were slain by those who 

2424
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:29,840
had been their brothers in arms 
when they marched S with Mance 

2425
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:31,880
Raider, the King beyond the 
Wall. 

2426
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:34,600
That's a way that keeps 
happening. 

2427
01:56:35,160 --> 01:56:38,080
It's a way that George has his 
character speak of the undead. 

2428
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:40,360
It's indirect. 
Others were slain by those who 

2429
01:56:40,360 --> 01:56:41,720
have been their brothers in 
arms. 

2430
01:56:41,880 --> 01:56:45,440
They don't call it Rarely is the
term white used or the undead or

2431
01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:47,200
anything like that. 
It's always like this indirect 

2432
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:50,400
dead things in the woods, dead 
things in the waters. 

2433
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:54,720
Thus these, you know, like the 
way even even Tormund, even the 

2434
01:56:54,720 --> 01:56:57,000
Free folk kind of refer to them 
like indirectly like that. 

2435
01:56:57,000 --> 01:56:59,480
They don't want to. 
It's almost like using their 

2436
01:56:59,480 --> 01:57:02,440
name. 
It summons them, you know, like 

2437
01:57:02,440 --> 01:57:04,360
makes them more likely to hear 
you, you know, like certain 

2438
01:57:04,360 --> 01:57:05,640
people. 
You don't want to say, what is 

2439
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:07,800
it in Harry Potter, You don't 
say Voldemort. 

2440
01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:09,840
Yeah, this is maybe that's some 
kind of thing they don't want to

2441
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:11,280
say. 
The others, you know they want, 

2442
01:57:11,800 --> 01:57:13,680
they don't want that word being 
used. 

2443
01:57:13,800 --> 01:57:15,680
It's also. 
I don't know if George intended 

2444
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:17,720
this, but it can be vague in 
another way. 

2445
01:57:17,920 --> 01:57:23,480
Like some people might have been
killed just by formal rivals 

2446
01:57:23,480 --> 01:57:25,880
that came together under Mance, 
but now they're back to being 

2447
01:57:25,880 --> 01:57:28,600
rivals. 
Or they're starving to death and

2448
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:31,240
they killed each other for their
food or their equipment or 

2449
01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:34,840
whatever else. 
It might not necessarily be 

2450
01:57:34,840 --> 01:57:40,000
undead, you see what I'm saying?
But but in the context of 

2451
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:42,560
everything it seems. 
Here's another thing that makes 

2452
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:43,880
the whole thing a little more 
terrifying. 

2453
01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:47,200
Remember that when a lot of Free
folk crossed the wall, a lot of 

2454
01:57:47,200 --> 01:57:50,400
them accepted the offer and 
passed through the gates. 

2455
01:57:51,120 --> 01:57:53,160
The Giants were willing to do 
it, but then they didn't because

2456
01:57:53,160 --> 01:57:56,280
the mammoths couldn't fit, so 
they decided to walk east. 

2457
01:57:57,760 --> 01:57:59,640
So they're heading towards E 
Watch. 

2458
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:02,680
This puts them not in the this 
doesn't have them heading 

2459
01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:04,760
towards Hardhome directly, but 
it puts them in the path of 

2460
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:06,880
where the Others army would be 
going. 

2461
01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:10,200
If it went S from Hardhome, it 
would be hitting E Watch. 

2462
01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:14,640
Now, they could bypass all this.
They could make it to Eastwatch 

2463
01:58:14,640 --> 01:58:16,200
and be on the right side of the 
wall. 

2464
01:58:16,200 --> 01:58:19,200
But it's entirely possible that 
these giants and and or mammoths

2465
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:23,000
get caught by this army or the 
others and end up in it and a 

2466
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:25,880
part of that army, and all of a 
sudden that army is even more 

2467
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:27,560
terrifying. 
You got mammoths and giants in 

2468
01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:28,720
it. 
I mean, we kind of expect them 

2469
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:30,560
to have mammoths and giants 
anyway, and other animals, but 

2470
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:33,160
this is like a whole squad of 
them, rather than just the 

2471
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:37,840
occasional odd addition of a 
large, lumbering undead beast. 

2472
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:40,400
I'd rather have. 
I'm making numbers up, but I'd 

2473
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:44,760
rather have 10 giants on my side
fighting against 10 giants on 

2474
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:48,520
the other side, then 20 giants 
on the other side and no giants 

2475
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:50,000
on my. 
Side right, Undead giant. 

2476
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:54,000
I mean, that's another one where
you can use the the imagery from

2477
01:58:54,000 --> 01:58:56,440
the TV show to get an idea what 
an undead giant would look like 

2478
01:58:56,440 --> 01:58:59,440
as we see that. 
And it's pretty damn scary. 

2479
01:58:59,440 --> 01:59:01,880
It's pretty like how as a human 
being, how do you face that? 

2480
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:03,360
You're glad to have the wall 
there. 

2481
01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:06,400
So like, yeah, he's like bashing
on the wall. 

2482
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:07,960
Like it's not going to 
breakthrough the wall just by 

2483
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:11,120
hitting it. 
But if if it can get around, 

2484
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:12,920
yeah, you're you don't want that
to happen. 

2485
01:59:12,920 --> 01:59:16,160
And there's so many places for 
maybe the wall to be breached or

2486
01:59:17,120 --> 01:59:18,400
the Nights Watch can't cover it 
all. 

2487
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:20,360
I mean, yeah, there's so many 
ways for them to get around. 

2488
01:59:20,360 --> 01:59:26,240
And Eastwatch is perhaps going 
to become a focal point that it 

2489
01:59:26,240 --> 01:59:27,760
probably deserves an episode 
too. 

2490
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:29,040
A lot, a lot is going to happen 
there. 

2491
01:59:29,040 --> 01:59:32,160
There's a lot of figures there. 
Gran and Pip were sent there by 

2492
01:59:32,160 --> 01:59:33,680
John. 
So whatever's going to happen 

2493
01:59:33,680 --> 01:59:37,640
there, they'll experience it and
hopefully they make it out. 

2494
01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:41,320
You know, as grim a picture as 
George R Martin has painted for 

2495
01:59:41,320 --> 01:59:45,160
hardhum, and we've all helped 
you picture and understand that 

2496
01:59:45,160 --> 01:59:47,960
grimness a little better. 
We hope it might actually have a

2497
01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:52,720
chance at a good ending right in
the Super duper long term, 

2498
01:59:52,720 --> 01:59:54,840
meaning the end of the series, 
meaning dream of spring 

2499
01:59:54,840 --> 01:59:57,880
predictions or hopes maybe 
hardhum will become settled 

2500
01:59:57,880 --> 01:59:59,640
again. 
If the others are defeated and 

2501
01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:03,840
there's a confidence that 
they're gone, if not forever, 

2502
02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:07,000
then well, it might be back, but
it'll be 8000 years, so we got 

2503
02:00:07,000 --> 02:00:09,960
some time. 
And especially if the wall is 

2504
02:00:09,960 --> 02:00:13,000
down and maybe winter, maybe 
it's warmer because I mean 

2505
02:00:13,000 --> 02:00:16,160
winter is busted by this. 
Maybe the cycles of winter are 

2506
02:00:16,160 --> 02:00:18,040
are are changed to something 
more normal. 

2507
02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:20,840
Like who knows what the world 
will look like at the end of A 

2508
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:23,720
Song of Ice and Fire, Like 
weather, like climate may change

2509
02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:26,280
dramatically or at least 
significantly enough, and hard 

2510
02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:27,840
home was settled even without 
that. 

2511
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:33,680
So if if the outlook on its 
danger on its climate all 

2512
02:00:33,680 --> 02:00:37,560
improves, well, that's all the 
more reason to maybe guess this 

2513
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:39,920
will happen. 
So if it's entirely free from 

2514
02:00:39,920 --> 02:00:44,120
the threat of the others, you 
know, maybe it's get that place 

2515
02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:47,640
open for business again, reopen 
hard Home Depot, right? 

2516
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:51,280
There'll be a need of lots of 
construction projects and all 

2517
02:00:51,280 --> 02:00:54,440
that. 
So, let alone the wall itself, 

2518
02:00:54,440 --> 02:00:56,480
right? 
I I I want to be positive. 

2519
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:59,080
I want to think that those ships
are going to rescue a bunch of 

2520
02:00:59,080 --> 02:01:02,200
people that torment will get 
there and rescue more that 

2521
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:05,360
probably still a bunch will be 
killed by the others and taken 

2522
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:07,440
into that army. 
But I, I, I still. 

2523
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:10,840
I'm trying to think of the most 
positive things that could 

2524
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:13,280
happen, and it's still pretty 
negative. 

2525
02:01:13,280 --> 02:01:16,680
Even if all my optimistic 
outlooks come true, it's still 

2526
02:01:16,680 --> 02:01:18,680
going to be an awful tragedy. 
So Yep. 

2527
02:01:20,200 --> 02:01:23,560
So it's also got a lot of food 
like the natural. 

2528
02:01:23,640 --> 02:01:24,640
It's a good area. 
Right. 

2529
02:01:24,640 --> 02:01:26,800
The harbor the. 
So there's positive there's 

2530
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:28,520
there's things that might but 
maybe the others will just wipe 

2531
02:01:28,520 --> 02:01:33,200
all that out. 
But if with enough effort and 

2532
02:01:33,200 --> 02:01:35,560
love maybe it could become soft 
home. 

2533
02:01:37,480 --> 02:01:40,120
Yes. 
Or yeah make your hard house a 

2534
02:01:40,120 --> 02:01:43,720
soft home. 
But maybe those screaming caves 

2535
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:45,760
are just too much of A Nope. 
Like, who wants to live there. 

2536
02:01:46,200 --> 02:01:48,200
Maybe it's just like I don't 
want to live there. 

2537
02:01:48,200 --> 02:01:51,160
It's just the the the vibes. 
It's just the history of this 

2538
02:01:51,160 --> 02:01:52,200
place. 
It's like living in a haunted 

2539
02:01:52,200 --> 02:01:53,880
house. 
It's like, you know, I don't 

2540
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:57,360
believe I'm not superstitious 
but people were killed here. 

2541
02:01:57,360 --> 02:01:59,440
You know, like, it's just I 
don't want to think about that. 

2542
02:01:59,440 --> 02:02:01,520
It's not that I worry about me, 
but like, I don't want that in 

2543
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:03,800
my head, in my in the place 
where I'm living, You know? 

2544
02:02:03,800 --> 02:02:05,880
I don't want that to just pop in
my head every once in a while. 

2545
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:09,720
Yes, we'll shut it down. 
Maybe their their impossibly 

2546
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:14,240
cold presence will freeze back 
the the water and the magma, and

2547
02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:17,840
in that shrieking cave sound. 
Yeah, maybe the the caves won't 

2548
02:02:17,840 --> 02:02:19,560
be screaming. 
Maybe they'll just be softly 

2549
02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:22,160
humming. 
Maybe they'll be singing nicely,

2550
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:24,240
singing sweetly the sweetly 
singing cave. 

2551
02:02:24,240 --> 02:02:28,320
That's what we'll be called. 
All the positive things, all the

2552
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:30,000
positive changes are yet to 
come. 

2553
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:32,560
The sweetly singing caves of 
soft home. 

2554
02:02:34,880 --> 02:02:38,640
That's the future we can dream 
of in a dream of spring. 

2555
02:02:38,640 --> 02:02:40,320
That's that's that's our new 
theory. 

2556
02:02:40,320 --> 02:02:44,600
It will be called Soft Home and 
named after it's sweetly singing

2557
02:02:44,600 --> 02:02:46,800
caves. 
Yes, which many tourists come to

2558
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:50,520
visit and spend lots of money 
and they exit through the gift 

2559
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:56,800
shop buying little walrus tusks 
and chunks of weirwood and 

2560
02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:00,120
dragon glass. 
And yes, this is a very fine 

2561
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:02,920
future. 
We've imagined the trivia 

2562
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:06,600
question he was who? 
What is Cotter Pike's ship? 

2563
02:03:07,440 --> 02:03:09,880
The answer is Talon. 
You would have gotten that from 

2564
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:11,880
the letter where he says from 
Talon. 

2565
02:03:13,720 --> 02:03:16,800
He also says Talon taking on 
water, which is why we may never

2566
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:19,000
hear from Talon again. 
I hope we do. 

2567
02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:22,760
I like Cotter Pike. 
Seems like a good leader, Good, 

2568
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:28,520
good man to have on your side. 
Brusque and and rude, but again,

2569
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:31,920
guy you want on your side. 
Man, a few words. 

2570
02:03:31,920 --> 02:03:37,120
Man a few words, yeah. 
He he not, yeah, and he's he's 

2571
02:03:37,120 --> 02:03:39,160
not even the one writing those. 
But Harmon's like you really 

2572
02:03:39,160 --> 02:03:42,920
wanted to write it that way just
just without the the the 

2573
02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:44,680
pronouns and out the the 
adjective. 

2574
02:03:44,680 --> 02:03:48,080
Just the this that no articles. 
And yeah, I'm not even using my 

2575
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:50,280
grammar correctly but neither 
would Cotter. 

2576
02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:56,120
So you know, right folks, we 
hope you enjoyed this excellent 

2577
02:03:56,200 --> 02:03:59,200
fun time we had with Hardhome. 
I certainly did. 

2578
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:02,400
It's really fun topic, and I 
think you can see why it's so 

2579
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:04,480
important. 
It's one of the most important 

2580
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:08,360
locations that we may never see 
on screen, although maybe we'll 

2581
02:04:08,360 --> 02:04:09,960
see it at the end. 
Like, that would be fun. 

2582
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:12,640
If a POV goes there, like John 
goes there in a dream dream of 

2583
02:04:12,640 --> 02:04:15,680
spring, like, hey, we actually 
see Hardhome, all right, Maybe 

2584
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:17,240
we'll see it in more visions. 
Maybe Bran will see it. 

2585
02:04:17,240 --> 02:04:18,800
Maybe Melisandre will have more 
visions of it. 

2586
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:21,320
There are ways we can see it 
without going there, you know, 

2587
02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:22,840
and maybe we will actually go. 
There. 

2588
02:04:22,840 --> 02:04:26,120
You know, George has said that 
he doesn't intend on bringing a 

2589
02:04:26,120 --> 02:04:30,280
new perspective, right? 
A new POV correct, 'cause I was 

2590
02:04:30,280 --> 02:04:33,040
like hoping maybe we'll get 
Tormons POV when he goes there 

2591
02:04:33,040 --> 02:04:35,280
or something like that, but. 
The exception is the prologue in

2592
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:38,680
epilogue, so he's still going to
maybe give one offs to there. 

2593
02:04:38,680 --> 02:04:43,080
So maybe that'll be a way for 
some hard home action to jump in

2594
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:45,480
in a way, in a way we wouldn't 
normally have seen it coming. 

2595
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:47,760
I'm rooting for the next 
prologue to be tormented and 

2596
02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:48,360
hard. 
Hard. 

2597
02:04:49,320 --> 02:04:51,480
Right on. 
OK folks, you there's other 

2598
02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:55,000
episodes I mentioned throughout 
this one that will be a good one

2599
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:57,440
for you to carry on with to 
listen re listen to or listen to

2600
02:04:57,440 --> 02:04:59,000
it. 
The first time the sea snake 

2601
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:01,480
episode you can hear about all 
his voyages including to hard 

2602
02:05:01,480 --> 02:05:04,000
home Dragonstone. 
We brought that up as a 

2603
02:05:04,360 --> 02:05:06,720
alternative and a play thing 
that happened around the same 

2604
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:09,840
time it was founded. 
We have many questions that 

2605
02:05:09,840 --> 02:05:12,800
would apply to both episodes. 
The Doom of Valyria of course is

2606
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:15,520
very relevant here. 
Our episode on Blood Magic and 

2607
02:05:15,520 --> 02:05:18,920
our other episodes on Valyria as
well during Valerie Radius for 

2608
02:05:18,920 --> 02:05:21,920
the World of Ice and Fire, where
we discussed a variety of topics

2609
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:26,520
surrounding Valyria's origin and
fall and in between. 

2610
02:05:26,680 --> 02:05:29,040
And that included a lot of 
crossover with this topic, 

2611
02:05:29,160 --> 02:05:32,400
including the volcano stuff. 
Sean, why don't you hit us with 

2612
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:36,520
some patron names? 
Yeah, I love this way that we 

2613
02:05:36,520 --> 02:05:37,960
get to interact with our 
patrons. 

2614
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:40,360
I haven't theme names in this 
world. 

2615
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:44,200
We've got our Hand of the King 
as a base born man Jack, 

2616
02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:47,120
literally a drunken Spearman. 
God's help us. 

2617
02:05:48,200 --> 02:05:51,280
And I'm assuming that's the base
born man Jack that's in our 

2618
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:54,920
patron calls each time and I 
think he came in second place in

2619
02:05:54,920 --> 02:05:57,640
our in both. 
Our Yeah, Ashton got first in 

2620
02:05:57,640 --> 02:06:00,520
both and he got second. 
Yeah, there's Lady Buffington, 

2621
02:06:00,600 --> 02:06:03,960
Alchemist of the North, Lord 
Raydetto of House Avocado, 

2622
02:06:03,960 --> 02:06:07,520
Protector of the Royal Kitchens.
The words are green in the 

2623
02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:11,120
morning, dark by evening. 
Very avocado theme there. 

2624
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:17,720
Jake Snow, AKA Jacob Ice Eyes 
The Bastard of the Last River 

2625
02:06:18,280 --> 02:06:22,880
and a very simple but known name
here, Game of Owns. 

2626
02:06:24,720 --> 02:06:27,640
They just did. 
We are patrons of each other and

2627
02:06:27,640 --> 02:06:30,880
they just, they just did their 
trailer discussion for House of 

2628
02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:32,960
Dragon and they're working on 
Hedge Night right now. 

2629
02:06:33,400 --> 02:06:34,600
Or sorry, sworn sword, sword, 
sword. 

2630
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:37,760
And we have another one here. 
Mallory Sand, Witch of the 

2631
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:40,760
Storm, Wolf Rider of Zulfrick, 
the Black Beast. 

2632
02:06:40,960 --> 02:06:43,800
That's Sam Rickson misses, and I
just appeared on her podcast 

2633
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:45,600
recently. 
Yeah, which is over on Twitch. 

2634
02:06:45,600 --> 02:06:47,320
They stream on Twitch, so check 
that out. 

2635
02:06:47,320 --> 02:06:51,280
You can find them over there. 
San Rixon on Twitch and you 

2636
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:53,320
like. 
You go over there and follow A 

2637
02:06:53,320 --> 02:06:55,360
History of Westeros and San 
Rixon on Twitch while you're at 

2638
02:06:55,360 --> 02:06:57,480
it. 
Thanks as well to Nina and you 

2639
02:06:57,480 --> 02:06:59,840
can go check her out on 
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 

2640
02:07:00,200 --> 02:07:04,600
Thanks to Joey, Jesse and Bran 
for our awesome intros and music

2641
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:08,320
and all that good stuff that 
makes our show look so 

2642
02:07:08,320 --> 02:07:10,640
professional. 
Thanks to Michael Klorfeld for 

2643
02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:15,520
the maps that you see both in 
our some of our video intros and

2644
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:18,800
this sitting right behind me, 
Michael's world map, which you 

2645
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:24,360
can buy at Clair docs.de that's 
KLKLARADOX dot DE. 

2646
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:29,200
You buy the file, print it out 
at your own leisure on your at A

2647
02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:32,560
at a local print shop. 
And that's a good way to do it. 

2648
02:07:33,040 --> 02:07:38,240
Also thanks to the Benjineer and
to of course to my compatriots 

2649
02:07:38,240 --> 02:07:40,960
Asha and Sean who need no 
introduction. 

2650
02:07:41,360 --> 02:07:44,160
But I'll do it anyway. 
We'll see you all next time for 

2651
02:07:44,160 --> 02:07:48,440
more and you know what to do in 
the meantime, Well, our re read 

2652
02:07:48,440 --> 02:07:48,880
us.