1
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After Liana and Rhaegar 
disappeared, shall we say, since

2
00:00:52,970 --> 00:00:56,770
it looked like different things 
to different people, Brandon 

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00:00:56,770 --> 00:00:59,890
Stark, heir to Winterfell and 
older brother of Ned and Liana, 

4
00:01:00,050 --> 00:01:02,330
rode to King's Landing to 
confront the Crown Prince 

5
00:01:02,330 --> 00:01:04,489
Rhaegar, taking a few companions
with him. 

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00:01:04,970 --> 00:01:07,890
Only a few. 
His father, Lord Rickard, did 

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not follow for reasons which we 
shall discuss. 

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00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,360
Mad King Aries had grown ever 
more paranoid and cruel after 

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00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,040
the defiance of Duskindale, 
attorney of Harrenhal, and so 

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00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,160
many lost children over the 
years prior, and he responded to

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Brandon's anger with one of his 
most infamous acts. 

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00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,720
This was a brief but vital 
precursor to Robert's Rebellion.

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This was the point of no return.
People started being killed. 

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00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,440
Well, that's really when you 
can't go back. 

15
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,760
After what Aries did to Brandon 
and Ricard and those other Lords

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00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,440
and their sons, war was all but 
certain. 

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00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:51,200
It was so horrible that Catlin 
and Bran and other Starks were 

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00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,960
never even told all the details.
Something we'll explore is the 

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00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,040
idea that even Ned himself 
doesn't know some of it, maybe 

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00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,920
even some of the major details. 
It's not like he was there for 

21
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,800
it, but someone else we all know
pretty well was. 

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00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,160
In this episode, we'll focus on 
4 characters. 

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00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,760
We'll get into their 
perspectives, dig into their 

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00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,120
minds as much as we can for the 
length of this affair, not 

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00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,720
bouncing around between them. 
But each of them in turn will 

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00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,120
wonder what they were thinking 
or not thinking in quite a few 

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00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,480
cases, or feeling what their 
options were or what they 

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couldn't do and what they did 
and didn't know about each other

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00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,080
or each other's intentions. 
Those 4 characters and in the 

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00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,760
order we will pursue them, 
Brandon Stark, Mad King Aries, 

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Lord Rickard Stark, and the only
person we can be sure of who 

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00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,920
witnessed it all and is still 
alive and is the only one of 

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00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,440
these four to be in the Song of 
Ice and Fire POV character Sir 

34
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,120
Jamie Lannister. 
We will be digging deep into 

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00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,920
those characters as they pertain
to this event. 

36
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,840
There are several quotes from 
Jamie, and there's some more 

37
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,160
from Catlin and Ned and a few 
others like Bran. 

38
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,960
Even we readers know more than 
most of the characters involved,

39
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:09,720
right? 
They each know a slice of the 

40
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,120
story. 
We have access to all of their 

41
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,040
slices, and even their slices 
are come with uncertainties, 

42
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,920
however. 
But still, with that in mind, we

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00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,160
have a lot more information than
they do, including the world of 

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00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,440
Ice and Fire, which weighs in on
this, unlike a lot of other 

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00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,200
things. 
So we will uncover as much of 

46
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,480
that mystery as possible and 
highlight what remains, where 

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00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,760
the big questions are, the ones 
we can and can't answer, and 

48
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,240
what's left to discover and how 
it's impacted Westeros and 

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00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,800
several of our favorite and most
important characters since all 

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00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,560
that and more on this episode of
History of Westeros Podcast. 

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00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,160
Hello and welcome. 
It's another Sunday live stream.

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00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,360
We do these most Sundays at 3:00
Eastern. 

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00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,240
That is our preferred time slot.
You can catch us live at that 

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00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:04,120
time or catch the edited version
on Spotify, or you can listen to

55
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,040
it on any podcast platform if 
that's your jam. 

56
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,840
And you can also get it ad free 
if you listen on Patreon. 

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00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,240
This is Topics Moot episode #1 
of 2025. 

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00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,360
Topics Moot is a Now yearly 
since this is the second year 

59
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,280
and we're into it now, of Topics
Moot, where patrons vote in 

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00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:29,960
weekly polls conducted in 
February and March over the 

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00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,480
series of weeks to determine a 
bunch of different episodes. 

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Last year was 12, this year it's
going to be 16, and halfway 

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through the episode I'll read 
you which ones have been picked 

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00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,240
besides this one. 
So far it's been pretty fun and 

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there's more to come. 
Thanks as well to 

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00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,520
ninagoodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 
That's where you can find her 

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00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,160
and she's always writing good 
things over there. 

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00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,200
Her latest post is a question 
from Anonymous that says, do you

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00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,640
think Sansa is connected to the 
Winter Rose and Liana? 

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00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,400
Do you think there are 
meaningful parallels going on? 

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00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,760
And you'll want to see what Nina
has to say about that. 

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She's also, of course, got some 
notes in this episode, as is so 

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00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,920
extremely common, and we love 
it. 

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00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,800
So if you have questions for 
us.westeroshistory@gmail.com is 

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00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,400
how to get in touch with us. 
Or you can hit us up with live 

76
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,320
questions. 
If you're here attending the 

77
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,680
stream right now. 
At the end of the episode, I 

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00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,880
will mention some episodes that 
overlap with this one a little 

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00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,560
bit, or at least relate to it if
you want to stay immersed or 

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00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,400
continue your journey. 
And they'll also be the answer 

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00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,920
to this trivia question, which 
is we're told that Aries 

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00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,200
executed all the fathers of 
Brandon's companions, but one of

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00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,320
those fathers had died long 
before, so Aries couldn't get 

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00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,200
him. 
Which of Brandon's companions 

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00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,680
was fatherless prior to the 
executions? 

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00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,400
Now, as is the case with the 
trivia questions, the answer is 

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00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,160
revealed during the episode. 
If you're paying attention, some

88
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,480
of you may already know. 
However, I'm proud of you if you

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00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:56,600
do, because this one's kind of 
hard. 

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00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,800
So this one doesn't have 
creative section header names as

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00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,040
much as usual because we're 
doing these sort of character 

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00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,240
perspective takes here, But we 
are starting with another Stark 

93
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,200
family secret. 
Then I'm going to run through 

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00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,720
just a quick list of the events.
Then we're going to do Brandon, 

95
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,880
Aries, Lord Ricard, and Jamie, 
and then some aftermath. 

96
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:18,800
And that's it. 
That's the episode. 

97
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,480
Each one of these chunks will 
take a bit of time, and we'll 

98
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,840
have fun exploring what it must 
have been like for each of those

99
00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:25,680
characters as these events 
unfolded. 

100
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,760
There are some lots more work 
really to be done on Robert 

101
00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,080
Rebellion. 
It's such a huge event. 

102
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,800
That's why we never tried to 
tackle it all at once. 

103
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,600
I mean, we've done the Battle of
the Trident, we've done the 

104
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,960
abduction of Lyanna, we've done 
the episode Stormborn, we've 

105
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,520
done an education which was 
young Ned. 

106
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,880
And a lot of these have a lot to
do with Robert Rebellion, or at 

107
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,760
least significant amount to it. 
There's so many more to go. 

108
00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:48,760
We've never fully focused on the
Tower of Joy. 

109
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,240
We haven't done Stonysept, we 
haven't done the Tournament of 

110
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,640
Harrenhal, we haven't done the 
sack of King's Landing. 

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00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,000
There's a lot, a lot, a lot. 
So this is just one particular 

112
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,520
chunk, one big chunk really, 
because of how important it is. 

113
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,120
Arguably the one that, as I said
in the intro, take it out and 

114
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,520
there may not be a there may be 
a chance to back down on both 

115
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,480
sides. 
The provocation had already been

116
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,960
there. 
But until people start getting 

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00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,760
killed, there's a chance that it
doesn't have to turn into an A 

118
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,360
big old civil war. 
But as we know, that is what 

119
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,080
happened. 
Well, let's get into another 

120
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,720
Stark family secret. 
Ned never told the worst of this

121
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,520
to Kat or his children, as far 
as we can tell. 

122
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,880
It seems like he just spared it,
spared them that because it's 

123
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,960
such a horrible story. 
She ends up learning a lot of it

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00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,240
from Jamie during the story. 
And that comes up especially 

125
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,080
near the end of Clash of Kings. 
Unlike Jon Snow's parentage, 

126
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,240
which you could kind of 
understand why Ned kept that 

127
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,720
secret that's protecting 
someone's life. 

128
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,760
This is all in the past. 
It's just it doesn't matter. 

129
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,880
It's not a secret that will harm
anyone other than the person 

130
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,560
having to think about it because
it's just a terrible thing to 

131
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,800
think about. 
It isn't like the secret itself 

132
00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:01,600
holds danger to others. 
So here is where Bran thinks 

133
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,280
about it as he's down in the 
Crips quote. 

134
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,720
They were almost at the end now,
and Bran felt a sadness creeping

135
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,480
over him. 
And there's my grandfather, Lord

136
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,360
Ricard, who was beheaded by Mad 
King Aries. 

137
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,280
His daughter Lyanna and his son 
Brandon are in the tombs beside 

138
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,240
him. 
Not me, another Brandon, my 

139
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,920
father's brother. 
They're not supposed to have 

140
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,120
statues, that's only for the 
Lords and the Kings. 

141
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,760
But my father loved them so much
he had them done. 

142
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,720
Beheaded, you say? 
No, he was not beheaded. 

143
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,799
Definitely not. 
It was much worse than that, 

144
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:39,559
much more horrible. 
He suffered a lot. 

145
00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:42,640
It wasn't simple and painless 
like a beheading often is. 

146
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,080
We don't even know what Brandon 
thinks of how Brandon died. 

147
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,160
He doesn't even mention it here.
If he knew about it, it would be

148
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,840
hard for him not to mention 
because it was so awful it's 

149
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,160
hard to just gloss over it. 
But the second part is 

150
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,280
definitely true that Ned really 
did love his siblings that much,

151
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,680
but it's also the manner of 
their deaths that drove him in 

152
00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:02,560
part to make the statues of them
because they had a particularly 

153
00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:08,760
tragic deaths that were really a
lot of the results of 

154
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,640
communication errors or things 
that could have been resolved. 

155
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,040
A lot of people getting angry, 
as we'll see, there were 

156
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,440
numerous points that maybe this 
could have been averted. 

157
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,520
And we've seen them in other 
episodes that we've discussed. 

158
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,000
There's things that could have 
stopped it. 

159
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,080
So for Ned's perspective, and he
bears the biggest burden of all,

160
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,000
probably at least until his own 
death, from seeing all and, and 

161
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,040
seeing all these and witnessing 
all these tragedies that 

162
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,440
happened to his family, He's 
really the only person that had 

163
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,120
all that information. 
And it wouldn't be the first 

164
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,440
time Ned avoided details of his 
past with his children. 

165
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,040
Nina reminds US Ned described 
Arthur Dayne to Bran as the 

166
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,040
finest night he'd ever seen, but
then got sad and would say no 

167
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,080
more, right. 
He didn't want to talk about the

168
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,480
Tower of Joy for John's sake. 
He doesn't want to even get 

169
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,840
close to that subject. 
You know, that's part of keeping

170
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,360
the secret, but also he's 
traumatized by it. 

171
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,640
Ned was surely that affected him
deeply personally. 

172
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,360
And the Reed children remember 
how shocked they were that Bran 

173
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,560
had never heard the story of the
Night of the Laughing Tree or 

174
00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,840
the Tournament of Harrenhal. 
He hadn't heard any of that. 

175
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,880
And that's very likely for the 
same reason that Ned didn't even

176
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,200
want to get started on that 
journey. 

177
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,760
It would just, it would just 
cause more questions to get 

178
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,960
asked and Ned didn't want to 
have to answer those questions. 

179
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,720
So he he didn't even want to 
start walking down that path 

180
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,040
because of where it would lead. 
Not just because of the 

181
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,360
information, but because it was 
painful. 

182
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,400
So Brand's sanitized version is 
kind of telling. 

183
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,320
Perhaps he'll learn the truth 
one day using his powers, or 

184
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,920
maybe he'll just get told 
somehow. 

185
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,560
That's a little harder to 
imagine. 

186
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:39,000
Like, who's going to tell him at
this point? 

187
00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:43,680
But it is Catlin who is actually
confronted by the truth directly

188
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,000
in a very unlikely place, the 
dungeons of River Run, But not 

189
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,080
from an unlikely person. 
A witness quote. 

190
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,840
As he laughed, she realized the 
wine had done its work. 

191
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,920
Jamie had drained most of the 
flag in and he was drunk. 

192
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,120
Only a man like you would be 
proud of such an act. 

193
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,680
I told you there are no men like
me. 

194
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,960
Answer me this, Lady Stark. 
Did your Ned ever tell you the 

195
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,920
manner of his father's death or 
his brothers? 

196
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,920
They strangled Brandon while his
father watched and then killed 

197
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,560
Lord Rickard as well. 
An ugly tale and 16 years old. 

198
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,600
Why was he asking about it now? 
Killed, yes, but how? 

199
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:29,360
The cord or the axe, I suppose. 
Jamie took a swallow, wiped his 

200
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,760
mouth. 
No doubt Ned wished to spare you

201
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,720
his sweet young bride, if not 
quite a maiden. 

202
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,520
Well, you wanted truth. 
Ask me. 

203
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,240
We made a bargain. 
I can deny you nothing. 

204
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,040
Ask. 
Dead is dead. 

205
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,560
I do not want to know this. 
But learn it she does. 

206
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,000
With this information and more, 
we piece it all together as best

207
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,280
as we can, and we'll return to 
Kat's conversation with Jamie 

208
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,440
later in the episode. 
But regarding the common, no 

209
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,120
doubt Ned wished to spare you. 
Is it possible Ned himself 

210
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,640
doesn't know the whole story? 
Let's consider that briefly 

211
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,880
here, with a quote from Eddard 
1. 

212
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,440
Brandon had been 20 when he 
died, strangled by order of the 

213
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:16,320
Mad King Aries Targaryen only a 
few short days before he was to 

214
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,840
wed Caitlin Tully of River Run. 
His father had been forced to 

215
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,640
watch him die. 
He was the true heir, the eldest

216
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,480
born to rule. 
Now this is Ned's inner 

217
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,760
monologue. 
It kind of undersells the 

218
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,680
horror, doesn't it? 
He doesn't even think about his 

219
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,480
father being roasted. 
His father had been forced to 

220
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,840
watch him die. 
That really undersells. 

221
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,560
He's forced to watch him die 
while roasting to death himself.

222
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:41,720
While Brandon was also forced to
watch that. 

223
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,880
So it's not like Eddard is 
trying to deceive someone here. 

224
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,480
It's again, this is his 
thoughts. 

225
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,600
But as Nina pointed out earlier,
just as Ned has been seen to 

226
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,600
keep things from his children 
and Catelyn, well, he avoids 

227
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,000
certain subjects in his own mind
too. 

228
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,920
It's like he's good at 
compartmentalizing or he's been 

229
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,360
forced into it. 
Some of it's maybe a little bit 

230
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,600
of authorial license. 
Of course, Ned, you know, 

231
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,920
doesn't think about all the 
details of the Tower of Joy or 

232
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,280
never thinks of John's nose 
parentage directly. 

233
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:13,880
There's just little clues here 
and there. 

234
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,040
So that's at least in line with 
that. 

235
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,840
This isn't the only thing that 
Ned doesn't think about 

236
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,600
directly, but still, it's a 
little curious. 

237
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,640
And the and the presentation is 
different. 

238
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,240
We can consider that maybe he 
doesn't know the whole truth. 

239
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,960
How would he? 
Who was in that throne room that

240
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,760
he could have spoken to later 
about it? 

241
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,800
Did Jamie tell him? 
I don't think so. 

242
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,440
I don't think Jamie gave him the
truth. 

243
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:42,400
Barristan maybe would have been 
there, but that's not even a 

244
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,800
sure thing. 
As we'll explore later. 

245
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,320
There would have been maybe some
guards or other servants, but 

246
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,560
how would Ned know who they 
were? 

247
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,440
Would he seek them out and track
that information down? 

248
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,040
It's not entirely clear. 
So he might be short a few 

249
00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,200
details himself. 
On the other hand, Robert says 

250
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,800
also in the next chapter to 
Eddard. 

251
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:08,000
Actually, he didn't say he roars
as Robert is won't to do what 

252
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,680
Aries did to your brother 
Brandon was unspeakable. 

253
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:13,560
The way your Lord father died, 
that was unspeakable. 

254
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,640
You know, they're arguing about 
certain things, and that sounds 

255
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,080
like they know at least to some 
extent. 

256
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,640
Like, yes, 'cause it was 
unspeakable. 

257
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,800
But if he just was, had his head
chopped off, maybe not. 

258
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,200
Oh, we, we seem to have, we seem
to have some dusting, live 

259
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,600
dusting going on here during the
episode. 

260
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,600
Who made these? 
They look like shit. 

261
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,720
Oh, these were made by some 
German guy, I think his name was

262
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,240
Michael. 
Must be told. 

263
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,400
Sure. 
Yeah, must be, ladies and 

264
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,200
gentlemen. 
And that was the Michael 

265
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,320
Klarfeld himself. 
Yes, the actual creator of these

266
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,280
maps all the way from Germany. 
We have them in the house. 

267
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,880
Just to clean. 
Them just to clean. 

268
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:01,360
Them just to clean them up for 
us. 

269
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,200
He was offended at how dirty we 
left them, so he came all the 

270
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,600
way here to fix that up. 
Now we're not going to let him 

271
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,600
leave either. 
So we're also going to have to 

272
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,480
delete this episode because it 
contains evidence of the 

273
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,120
kidnapping. 
So don't tell. 

274
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,120
Let's talk real quickly about 
running through the events of 

275
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,240
this brief saga before we get 
into the our little homemade 

276
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,600
character perspectives here. 
It starts with the connection to

277
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,360
Lyanna's abduction slash 
kidnapping slash elopement. 

278
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,520
Brandon was headed to his own 
wedding or at his own wedding at

279
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,080
River Run, and he got word that 
his father was on the way. 

280
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,520
So he left to go north to meet 
his father to greet him on the 

281
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,720
road. 
And they found out on the road 

282
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,040
about Liana and Rhaegar. 
And Brandon heads straight to 

283
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,440
King's Landing and demands that 
Rhaegar come out and die 

284
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,800
according to Jamie. 
And then Aries has him and his 

285
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,480
companions imprisoned on charges
of conspiring to kill Rhaegar, 

286
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,080
summons their fathers, and then 
Rickard and the other nobles 

287
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,040
arrive, probably together as 
they'd likely have come S for 

288
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,880
the wedding. 
It's their future Lord Brandon 

289
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,880
that all these sons are are 
accompanying, so makes sense 

290
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,080
that they'd be going to that 
wedding and perhaps why they 

291
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,120
were even there in the 1st 
place. 

292
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,000
So. 
And then things played out from 

293
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,200
there with the horrors. 
So let's start with Brandon. 

294
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,120
As we said, Brandon would have 
been on his way from River Run 

295
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,120
to meet his father on the road. 
Just you know how nobles behave.

296
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,280
I guess maybe he was bored. 
Like, yeah, let me go greet my 

297
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,160
Lord father on the road. 
Little welcoming party. 

298
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,320
You know, we're all here to get 
married and then have this 

299
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,160
arrangement and all that. 
I don't know if he was just 

300
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,560
wanted to get out and ride or 
just that's just what nobles do.

301
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:48,920
I'm not sure. 
But either way, it's a 

302
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,000
reasonable thing to do. 
And up comes this interruption 

303
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,160
somehow. 
Somebody, we're not sure who it 

304
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,800
was. 
We discussed it a bit more in 

305
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,760
the abduction of Leona episode. 
Probably someone in Leona's 

306
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,440
party or someone who saw a 
witness, you know, might have 

307
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,760
been around someone in the Wentz
territory because it would have 

308
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,440
been close to Harrenhal where 
this all happened. 

309
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,040
It could have just been some 
random person that witnessed it 

310
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,480
from afar. 
But if Leona bolted from her 

311
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,839
companions, they might have gone
to report on that. 

312
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,200
Anyway, it's the world book that
tells us that Brandon got to 

313
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,319
River Run and then left to meet 
his father. 

314
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,240
So and we also confirmed that 
from Catlin. 

315
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,160
Catlin had a goodbye from 
Brandon. 

316
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,840
He's like, hey, I'm going to 
leave, I'm going to come back 

317
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,640
and then we'll get married and 
etcetera. 

318
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,640
And like, who could have 
possibly known that this Liana 

319
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,440
business would have happened? 
There was no foreshadowing or 

320
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,040
warning of anything like this. 
It was just a, hey, let me head 

321
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,480
out, meet my dad, and then I'll 
be right back and boom, we'll 

322
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,000
get married and and then we 
begin our lives together. 

323
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,280
Imagine Brandon's perspective 
here. 

324
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,560
We're trying to focus on that. 
What's he thinking? 

325
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,640
He's already mad about what 
happened at the attorney of 

326
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:01,880
Harrenhal that was upsetting the
Rhaegar, giving Liana the Laurel

327
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,000
of blue roses, the Queen of Love
and Beauty award in front of 

328
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,320
everybody. 
That was embarrassing. 

329
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,120
That was, you know, Brandon 
apparently had to be restrained.

330
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,680
You know, Robert laughed it off 
but was probably actually upset 

331
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,640
about it. 
So this isn't out of nowhere. 

332
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,040
This isn't something that's a 
new provocation. 

333
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,440
It's a sore spot already for 
Brandon, perhaps more so than 

334
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:24,880
anyone. 
He might have been the most 

335
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,080
upset about what happened at the
tournament more than anybody 

336
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,080
else. 
I think if I had to guess, hey, 

337
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,560
I'll guess yes. 
I'd say Brandon was the most 

338
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,120
upset about it, even more so 
than Robert, and he might have 

339
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:39,360
been upset even more. 
He may have seized at it because

340
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,560
nothing had been done right 
since then. 

341
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,160
There hadn't been any words 
said. 

342
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,640
He probably maybe expected 
something to be said or maybe an

343
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,840
apology, but nothing happened. 
His father hadn't done anything.

344
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,160
Maybe he tried to talk to Lord 
Richard and he wasn't going to 

345
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,440
do anything about it. 
He just like, let's just let it 

346
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,560
drop, son. 
But no, that's not what 

347
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,000
happened. 
So he might have been steaming 

348
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,000
over that. 
And we know he's quick to anger 

349
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,280
and was already angry about 
this. 

350
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:05,680
So it's not much of A leap at 
all. 

351
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,120
So what does he say? 
What's the scenario here that 

352
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,080
allows him to just leave and go 
to King's Landing? 

353
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,600
I can't imagine Lord Rickard 
consented to this. 

354
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,480
It's almost impossible to 
imagine that. 

355
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,040
I, I really don't think that's 
the case. 

356
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,640
So perhaps they argued about 
he's like, I we need to go do 

357
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,480
something about this right now. 
Rickard might have been like, 

358
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,720
hey, let's be cautious, let's be
diplomatic, let's go there. 

359
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,840
And strength won't just ride off
hot headed. 

360
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,320
That's not going to help. 
But Brandon apparently isn't the

361
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,360
type to take advice like that. 
And maybe that's exactly what he

362
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:37,800
did. 
He gets frustrated at his 

363
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,360
father's calm, rational approach
and it just bolts immediately 

364
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,800
leave. 
Maybe he says I'm not going or 

365
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,480
he's just fine and then just 
sneaks away something like Jon 

366
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,200
Snow sneaking off in the night, 
but instead of his companions 

367
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,200
coming to get him, his 
companions go with him, right? 

368
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,320
Something like that. 
Or he just left and left 

369
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,720
quickly. 
And Ricard immediately was like,

370
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,480
oh, I, I can't catch him. 
I mean, he's fast and he's going

371
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,360
to ride all night. 
And even if I could catch him, I

372
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,640
wouldn't, my men wouldn't be 
able to turn him around. 

373
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,480
They'd they lacked the authority
to tell the heir to Winterfell 

374
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,400
to stop and they're not going to
do it by force. 

375
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,040
And he's clearly going to do 
what he wants. 

376
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,160
Or maybe Brandon misled his 
father and said, hey, I'm just 

377
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,040
going to go and talk to them. 
And I kind of doubt this one, 

378
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,720
but I'll throw it out there. 
You know, it's like, hey, I'll 

379
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,680
be polite. 
I'll make you know, I'll bring 

380
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,480
it up. 
I'll say, hey, this is on. 

381
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,120
This is unbecoming of the Crown 
Prince to run off with my 

382
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:33,800
sister. 
You know, shouldn't you do 

383
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,880
something about this? 
So maybe that seems hard to 

384
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,080
believe. 
But So what Aries ended up doing

385
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,920
is kind of hard to believe, too.
I don't think anyone saw that 

386
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,400
coming. 
I'm not even sure Aries saw that

387
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,200
coming. 
He may have just reacted in the 

388
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,280
moment. 
But getting ahead of ourselves 

389
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,120
either way, we have these five 
guys that go to the Red Keep 

390
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,760
with Brandon. 
Well, 5 total. 

391
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,160
Brandon is number 5. 
We have Ethan Glover who's 

392
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,240
Brandon Squire, so he is of 
course is going no matter what. 

393
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,120
Then we have Jeffrey Mallester, 
Kyle Royce and Albert Aaron. 

394
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,720
We don't know much about 
Mallester and Royce. 

395
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,920
We know that Kyle Royce was not 
a son of Bronzeon Royce, might 

396
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,960
have been a cousin or a nephew 
or something like that, but he 

397
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,160
definitely wasn't a son. 
And Jeffrey Mallister, also, we 

398
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,920
don't know his relation to the 
current Lord Jason Mallister, 

399
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,640
but Albert Aaron was the heir to
the veil. 

400
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,440
He was John Aaron's nephew. 
This was before Sweet Robin was 

401
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,400
born, so this was the heir 
presumptive. 

402
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,960
So his nephew. 
This might have made them all 

403
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,000
feel safer. 
They're like, hey, we're a bunch

404
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,840
of important nobles. 
Even if we embarrass ourselves 

405
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,200
or lose our tempers in front of 
someone of higher rank, what's 

406
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,640
the worst that could happen, 
right? 

407
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:53,320
I mean, slap on the wrist, 
tossed in a tower cell for a 

408
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,320
little while to cool off. 
They're not thinking. 

409
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,280
I don't. 
I don't know that they're 

410
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,760
thinking much at all about 
penalties, but they're not 

411
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,960
thinking of death. 
They're not thinking of that. 

412
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,640
I just, I doubt it occurred to 
them. 

413
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,200
Now, Jamie says they were quote,
all Lord's sons. 

414
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,640
It seems to me though, but it's 
not entirely true. 

415
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,800
I mean, Albert Aaron was 
definitely not a Lord. 

416
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,840
He was the heir. 
But, you know, we can be using 

417
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,600
the term Lord loosely here, like
Lord Tyrion and Lord Varis. 

418
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,760
Like these, these aren't Lords 
of territory. 

419
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,840
They're Lords as honorifics, and
they're related to Lords. 

420
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:27,040
And yeah, so it probably wasn't 
meant to be particular, but it's

421
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,560
interesting to consider the 
possibility that these guys were

422
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,000
even higher rank. 
You know, Jeffrey and Glover and

423
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,480
Kyle Royce might have been 
higher ranked than we even 

424
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,560
thought, which would make the 
whole total rank of the party 

425
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,840
even higher, which makes the 
whole crime committed here even 

426
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,920
grander. 
So anyway, this is still only 

427
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,200
five guys. 
No matter who they are, it's 

428
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,040
only 5 dudes. 
So they're definitely not like 

429
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,280
going to take Liana back by 
force. 

430
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,160
That clearly wasn't their 
intent. 

431
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,400
Or if it was, I mean, that's 
silly. 

432
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,200
They're going to March into 
King's Land and go to the Red 

433
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,720
Keep and the five of them are 
going to draw their swords and 

434
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,240
pull like it doesn't. 
That's not rational. 

435
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,320
Even for crazy angry guys, 
they're not like it doesn't seem

436
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:16,040
like that was their plan, right?
So it's one thing to think about

437
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,120
Brandon and what he's thinking 
or not thinking, but this isn't 

438
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,080
just like an overnight ride. 
It's not like they left the area

439
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,360
near River On and the next day 
they're at King's Landing still 

440
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:28,320
angry. 
Now this is like 2 weeks or 

441
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,880
three weeks of riding maybe, 
maybe on the lighter end because

442
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,920
they probably were going fast, 
like Brandon was probably 

443
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,920
pushing it. 
They were probably sleeping very

444
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,160
little and riding hard and 
changing their horses often, 

445
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,920
things like that. 
So he had time to cool off, even

446
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,120
riding quickly. 
He had it was probably at least 

447
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,240
two weeks, but he didn't cool 
off apparently, because from 

448
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,120
what we hear, he when he got 
there, he was just fired up. 

449
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:51,960
He was yelling, he was 
threatening. 

450
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,960
What did his companions expect? 
Were they just like, whatever 

451
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,200
you want, Brandon, we're with 
you, you know, or were they 

452
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,160
like, I'm with you, but this is 
a bad idea, bro. 

453
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,840
And what did they all think 
happened? 

454
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,160
Like, Brandon was probably very 
opinionated about what Rhaegar 

455
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,520
did, but they didn't necessarily
have all the details right. 

456
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,760
They may have had, some of them 
may have had their own opinions,

457
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,280
which they might have kept quiet
about because they wouldn't want

458
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,280
to upset Brandon. 
And they're there to support him

459
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,840
and the Starks and their future,
you know, the future Lord of 

460
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,800
Winterfell. 
And you know, you want to get in

461
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,520
good with him, I suppose, you 
know, and there are probably 

462
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,120
some genuine friendship and play
here. 

463
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:30,080
You know, you got young men, 
there's some camaraderie. 

464
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,040
You got like this. 
This offense was committed 

465
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,400
against him. 
It's, it's a righteous 'cause 

466
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,520
they're on here like they, they 
probably feel justified and like

467
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:38,560
they're doing the right thing 
here. 

468
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,760
Because remember what we said in
the abduction of Liana episode, 

469
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,160
Even if Liana went willingly, 
Rhaegar shouldn't allow that as 

470
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,200
the Crown Prince, he should be 
looking out for her honors, 

471
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,320
honour, quote UN quote. 
But so, you know, in this 

472
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,440
society, him running off with 
her is a complete no no, you 

473
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,600
know, even if it was innocent, 
which it wasn't, so Rhaegar's 

474
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,120
guilty no matter what. 
It's just a degrees of guilty 

475
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,080
here. 
Like, is he? 

476
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,560
If he kidnapped her, that's 
obviously worse. 

477
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,960
But even just them running off 
together and eloping is bad. 

478
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,400
And even all this is uncertain 
though, because Brandon's got a 

479
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,160
huge temper and who knows what 
his temper brain was thinking or

480
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,520
making him think and who knows 
what thoughts were flying 

481
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,920
through his head. 
He might have been pretty 

482
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:26,000
irrational about it all. 
And Anita is definitely on team 

483
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,360
believing that Brandon thought 
it was an abduction. 

484
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,280
And I, I tend to that way as 
well. 

485
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,200
So that just in intensifies the 
whole thing that Brandon would 

486
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,800
be even more angry about it and 
saying, hey, look, King court, 

487
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,840
whatever, this is a blatant 
crime. 

488
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,720
I shouldn't have to do anything 
other than point it out. 

489
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,080
And you all should make good on 
it, you know, because it is, 

490
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,280
again, hard to believe he 
intended to go there waving a 

491
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,640
sword. 
And, and just, I mean, he did 

492
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,960
apparently say come out and die 
Rhaegar. 

493
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,160
But you know, that's, those are 
just angry words, right? 

494
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,560
I, I also wonder why they 
assumed Rhaegar and Liana went 

495
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,840
to King's Landing. 
Is it just, was that an 

496
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,000
assumption or did they know? 
Well, they were wrong if they 

497
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,120
thought they knew that. 
It's maybe a little odd, maybe 

498
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:12,440
not, though. 
Let's let's examine this 

499
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,440
briefly. 
So everyone got it was a pretty 

500
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,360
dramatic when Rhaegar gave Leona
the crown of Laurel, Laurel of 

501
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,040
love and beauty and all that. 
It's one thing to do that in 

502
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,800
front of everybody, but it's a 
whole other thing to bring her 

503
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,400
home in front of everybody to 
the Red Keep. 

504
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,040
Like take her to like your 
chambers where everyone can see 

505
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,160
it. 
That seems like going more than 

506
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,880
one step farther, right? 
Maybe I'm overthinking it. 

507
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,760
You know, maybe she would, maybe
he would do that. 

508
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Maybe that is a a reasonable 
thing for a guy that's already 

509
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,400
taken this step to do. 
But like his wife is there, you 

510
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,240
know, Elia is there. 
He's still married to her. 

511
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,920
Like she's not, she's not gone. 
She's not in Dorne. 

512
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:58,600
You know, his kids are there. 
This is it's kind of a big deal.

513
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,920
You know, I I think it's a 
little out of hand for him to do

514
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,200
that, but still, Brandon would 
want to confront the king about 

515
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,720
it and say, hey, look, look at 
your son has done, you know, if 

516
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,680
Rhaegar isn't there to answer 
for this, he still wants to 

517
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,800
bring it to the attention of a 
higher authority, even though 

518
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,400
that turned out to be a horrible
idea. 

519
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,480
You know, you could see why that
might be the thing to do is 

520
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,160
like, hey, I want justice here, 
you know, and the only one who 

521
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,480
can bring justice to the Crown 
Prince is the king is the only 

522
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,960
guy that outranks him. 
So you know, Nina argues maybe 

523
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,120
Rhaegar would have been that 
bold and maybe it's not 

524
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,320
irrational to think that Rhaegar
would have done that. 

525
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,560
But hey, and it also be where 
else would Brandon go? 

526
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,200
You know, where else would he 
start looking? 

527
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,960
He's like, well, maybe he 
wouldn't go to the red key. 

528
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,840
Maybe Rhaegar would run out 
somewhere or would run somewhere

529
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,320
else where Dragonstone. 
Well, if he that's the only 

530
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,080
other like reasonable guess, he 
certainly wouldn't guess Dorn, 

531
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,560
which is where they actually 
went right. 

532
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,920
So Brandon never would have 
found them otherwise, I don't 

533
00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:00,000
think Yet another tragedy along 
the way. 

534
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,040
You know, if if just Aries 
hadn't reacted the way he did, 

535
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,440
or if Brandon to use different 
language or Brandon started 

536
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,360
looking somewhere else, another,
another coulda woulda, shoulda. 

537
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,920
Now, after those couple of weeks
of riding, after not cooling 

538
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,200
off, after whatever they 
discussed amongst themselves, 

539
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,960
those five companions got to 
King's Landing, rode through the

540
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,800
streets, rode up the King to the
Red Keep, were let inside. 

541
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,880
And here's Jamie telling what 
happened next quote. 

542
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,640
He rode into the Red Keep with a
few companions, shouting for 

543
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,360
Prince Rhaegar to come out and 
die, but Rhaegar wasn't there. 

544
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,640
Aries sent his guards to arrest 
them all for plotting his son's 

545
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,480
murder. 
The others were Lords sons too, 

546
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,800
it seems to me. 
So this is presumably the same 

547
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,240
courtyard where Tyrion slapped 
Joffrey after the riot. 

548
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,320
Just inside. 
You get inside the red keeps 

549
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,640
gates and it's the first thing 
right? 

550
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,040
This is right after the riot 
they ride in, right? 

551
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,320
Just like Tyrion was furious 
that Joffrey incited the crowd, 

552
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,640
Brandon is furious that the 
Crown Prince ran off with his 

553
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,360
sister. 
Again, no matter what reason he 

554
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,880
had for it, no matter what 
Brandon thinks it's an offense, 

555
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,960
It's a dishonouring. 
So I don't know what he thought 

556
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,960
was he was expecting. 
Again, I don't think Brandon was

557
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:21,960
doing much thinking at all here,
but maybe in his mind, thinking 

558
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,400
that Aries would be apologetic, 
that he would say, hey, this is 

559
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,240
this. 
I agree with you. 

560
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,080
This is a dishonouring. 
And if he says it out loud to 

561
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,680
everyone, everyone hear, that 
makes it more public. 

562
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,880
It's harder for Aries to sweep 
it under the rung he has to 

563
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,120
respond to a public injustice 
committed against a great house.

564
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,520
But of course, that's not what 
worked at all. 

565
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,480
Aries was not. 
Oh, gosh, I'm sorry my son ran 

566
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,080
off with your sister. 
That's a dishonorable thing to 

567
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:46,880
do. 
You're right. 

568
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,280
Let's get this sorted out. 
We'll make amends. 

569
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,760
Yeah, of course, that's not what
happened. 

570
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,360
But I think maybe that's where 
somewhere in Brandon's mind, he 

571
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,560
was thinking this is what should
happen and that's what he's 

572
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,920
going to get. 
Because he's Brandon Stark, he's

573
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,520
the heir to Winterfell, his 
sister's important. 

574
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,360
He's going to do everything he 
can. 

575
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,320
It's a little combination of 
bravado and arrogance and 

576
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,640
genuine care for his his 
siblings. 

577
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,560
So all that. 
It's obviously not remotely what

578
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,720
Aries would do. 
This is a guy who barely knows 

579
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,360
the Mad King. 
He doesn't really know what to 

580
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,720
expect. 
He may have heard a few things. 

581
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,920
He saw him at the Tournament of 
Harran Hall a little bit saw the

582
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,360
long fingernails and the long 
hair, but he he looked probably 

583
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,160
kind of cowardly and timid, 
right? 

584
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,440
He he demanded the identity of 
the night of the laughing tree, 

585
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,880
but for the most part, I don't 
know. 

586
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,360
He he doesn't. 
He cuts a kind of AI don't know 

587
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,440
about intimidating figure isn't 
the right word. 

588
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,760
He seems a little crazy and out 
of sorts and looks like he his 

589
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,360
mind probably operates and 
maybe. 

590
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,680
So maybe Brandon didn't fear 
that for whatever he. 

591
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,120
Maybe he thought that was a, a 
weak man that he could sort of 

592
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,720
push around a little. 
Hello, Casanova. 

593
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,280
More fool him for believing 
that. 

594
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,960
I mean, this is the man who 
exterminated all of the 

595
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,760
Darklands and Hollards. 
So. 

596
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,240
I don't know. 
Brandon maybe was thinking of 

597
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,880
certain things and not thinking 
of others. 

598
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,440
But again, Brandon's only 20 
years old, not fully up on all 

599
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,160
the events of the world. 
Yeah, well, what a plot, though.

600
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,520
Ares accused them of conspiring 
for plotting his son's murder. 

601
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,240
Plotting, you say? 
I mean, that's not a plot. 

602
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,480
They plotted to demand he come 
out and die. 

603
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,400
Oh, that's cunning. 
We'll we'll walk in. 

604
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,800
We'll demand he comes out and 
die, and then he'll die. 

605
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,600
Ha, ha. 
They'll never see through that 

606
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:44,160
plan. 
What? 

607
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,040
This isn't a plan. 
It's it's it's neither cunning 

608
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,160
nor even a plan. 
You can't even call it a plan. 

609
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,280
It was just what he did. 
So, yeah, Aries, as Jamie said, 

610
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:02,920
immediately had them arrested, 
hauled off, tossed into, you 

611
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,880
know, a cell, whatever that 
means. 

612
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,320
They had to sit there for a 
while. 

613
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,080
And what does that mean for 
them? 

614
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,160
Were they sitting there wishing 
they had acted differently? 

615
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,640
Or were they just expecting that
this was part of the plan, that 

616
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,400
this would work, that, hey, 
escalating is going to work out?

617
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:27,280
We're in prison and they will 
have to negotiate now, right? 

618
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,280
My father will come, our fathers
will come, etcetera, and they'll

619
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,120
work this out. 
You know, that may have been 

620
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,480
another one of an aspect to 
Brandon's rashness, thinking 

621
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,320
that, hey, I'll escalate by 
making this really loud in 

622
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,600
public and then it'll bring 
everyone together and they'll 

623
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,480
have to work it out. 
He just didn't foresee how bad 

624
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,960
it could have gotten. 
He didn't foresee an escalation 

625
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,360
to violence. 
But Aries was all about that. 

626
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,440
He was all about escalation and 
paranoia. 

627
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,320
But of course, Aries didn't do 
anything right away. 

628
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,040
He locked them up and made them 
wait because he summoned their 

629
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,280
fathers. 
He sent out letters, Ravens, and

630
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,320
then, well, we had to wait. 
They had to wait for those 

631
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,400
fathers to receive those letters
and then travel to King's 

632
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,840
Landing. 
So again, weeks pass, Aries 

633
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,400
could have cooled off. 
They could have asked for a word

634
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,360
with the king and apologized. 
Of course, none of these things 

635
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,720
are super likely, but there was 
time for it. 

636
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:35,600
It didn't happen, of course. 
So at this point, Brandon, his 

637
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,840
companions are helpless. 
They lose all their agency. 

638
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,400
There aren't even witnesses to 
anything. 

639
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,200
They're just sitting in cells. 
So this is a good time for us to

640
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,840
move on to our next perspective.
But I wanted to mention one 

641
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,960
thing here, one quote between 
the Catlin and Jamie 

642
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,200
conversation that I think is 
pretty telling about the 

643
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,840
character of Brandon. 
In the same conversation that 

644
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,360
Jamie says there are no men like
me. 

645
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,560
We've already quoted it. 
Jamie says this to Catlin quote.

646
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,920
Brandon was different from his 
brother, wasn't he? 

647
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,920
He had blood in his veins 
instead of cold water. 

648
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,520
More like me. 
Brandon was nothing like you. 

649
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,719
If you say so. 
The big difference is though, 

650
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,199
Jamie saw how Brandon died, 
Catelyn did not. 

651
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,199
Catelyn didn't exactly know 
Brandon super well right? 

652
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:28,840
They didn't spend much time 
together. 

653
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,880
She spent a lot of her life 
especially to that point 

654
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,159
thinking she would marry him. 
But they didn't spend a lot of 

655
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,560
time getting to know each other.
She barely knew him at all. 

656
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,199
They but she did know him better
than Jamie did. 

657
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,280
But still, Jamie saw how he died
and saw how he came charging 

658
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,040
into the Red Keep with those 
demands and that foolish 

659
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,960
gallantry, as Lord Hofster will 
call it later. 

660
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,880
So I think Jamie did know what 
he was talking about when he 

661
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,040
said Brandon was a bit like me. 
We have a very distinct example 

662
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,840
of this. 
Jamie also rode with a few 

663
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,480
companions to confront Lord 
Eddard in the streets of King's 

664
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,600
Landing, angrily demanding to 
know what they had done with his

665
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,080
sibling. 
Right, It wasn't his lover, it 

666
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,840
was Tyrion 'cause I said sibling
with Jamie. 

667
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,680
So that does need to be 
qualified, but it's a similar 

668
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,800
situation. 
Jamie's taking less of a risk in

669
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,880
terms of his own person, but no 
less of a risk in terms of 

670
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,600
escalating a conflict between 2 
great houses that can and does 

671
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,320
turn into civil war. 
In both cases, that's what 

672
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,880
happens. 
And in both cases, this dispute 

673
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,560
over a sibling and the seizure, 
slash, abduction, slash arrest 

674
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,560
or whatever, whatever, however 
each individual perceives it has

675
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,880
dire consequences not long 
afterwards. 

676
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,240
This episode, as I said at the 
beginning, is one of our topics.

677
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,440
Moot winners. 
The other five winners so far 

678
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:08,560
are the Winterfell murders, 
which is a examination of all 

679
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,840
the murders taking place during 
A Dance with Dragons at 

680
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,200
Winterfell, while the Bolton's 
and Manderleys and praise and 

681
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,200
everybody is all there together.
And the killing of Kevin, as in 

682
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,600
Kevin Lannister, the murder of 
Kevin, why virus is doing it, A 

683
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,440
lot of other details along that.
So those were winning those. 

684
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,080
Those won a poll, a set of 
polls. 

685
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,520
There was 1 poll about murders 
and there was another poll about

686
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,480
executions and then at the end 
of the week those the winners of

687
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,160
each of those two poles competed
against each other and produced 

688
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,800
these winners. 
So we had a lot of other fun 

689
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,120
topics like the murders in a 
Marine, many murders in Marine, 

690
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,920
I called it. 
That was the 4th place finisher,

691
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,880
which of course deals with the 
the harpies and the the graces 

692
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,120
and the shave paint and all 
that. 

693
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,720
So a lot of great fun topics. 
Each pole has 10 or give or take

694
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:04,640
one or two topics that people 
vote on. 

695
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,080
So it's quite a lot. 
And then the next group was 

696
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,760
Benjen Stark, Barth Blacksword 
and Danis the Dreamer. 

697
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,120
So it was a Targaryen pole and a
Stark pole. 

698
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:16,800
And they face each other down. 
And some close names, some names

699
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,000
that almost got in there that 
didn't quite make it were 

700
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,000
Visenya. 
She was close. 

701
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,000
So is Sarah Targaryen, Princess 
Sarah the Unruly, and Brandon 

702
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,960
Snow, the one who purported to 
believe he could murder Valerian

703
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:37,280
and Maraxes and and Vergar. 
He never got his chance. 

704
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,120
We wonder He may have been in 
Bran's dream. 

705
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,960
So if you want to participate in
those polls, come sign up on 

706
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,080
Patreon. 
And we do it every year, like I 

707
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,880
said, but you also not. 
In addition to getting to help 

708
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,280
choose episodes, you also get 
bonus episodes and access to 

709
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,960
other fun things like our notes 
and cool nicknames and shout 

710
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,320
outs, things like that question 
from Wygard. 

711
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,920
Hope I said that right. 
I always think I'm an expert on 

712
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,760
A Song of Ice and Fire with all 
the time I put into reading the 

713
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,760
books and listening to podcasts,
but those trivia questions 

714
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,840
always put me in my place. 
Love the content though. 

715
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,880
Well, I I sometimes make them 
easier. 

716
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,000
Sometimes they make them kind of
hard, but I also kind of 

717
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,880
sometimes I lose track of what 
is and isn't hard. 

718
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,600
So appreciate that regard. 
Sam, John. 

719
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,520
This person listens to the whole
episode, they'll get the. 

720
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,160
Answer That's right. 
I like that that change in the 

721
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,560
trivia style that you give the 
answer throughout the episode. 

722
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,080
Yeah, yeah, I used to just the 
the we first started doing the 

723
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,000
trivia question. 
It was just a random question 

724
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,040
and I wouldn't give any context,
but but now it's like, yeah, we 

725
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,280
worked it into the episode. 
Now the question is related to 

726
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,280
the episode and we get, yeah, 
nice little evolution of our of 

727
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,640
our trivia. 
Sam Jensen says I catch my first

728
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,280
live stream and witness a 
kidnapping. 

729
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,000
Truly a Westeros podcast. 
That's right. 

730
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,200
We did kidnap this man. 
No, we didn't kidnap him. 

731
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,160
There is no kidnapping 
whatsoever. 

732
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,000
There is no evidence whatsoever 
of a kidnapping. 

733
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,600
None whatsoever. 
No kidnappings. 

734
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,040
Yes, I'm telling you, there's no
evidence. 

735
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,280
There's no secret messages being
passed along here. 

736
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,360
Michael isn't holding any signs 
up. 

737
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,560
Let's move on to Aries. 
Brandon was in a state of anger,

738
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,240
which in many ways simplifies 
things. 

739
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,560
It's a little easier for us to 
imagine what he's thinking 

740
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,600
because he wasn't thinking 
right. 

741
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,600
That's kind of the way I prefer 
to frame it. 

742
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,960
Maybe I'm simplifying too much, 
but maybe we'll learn more 

743
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,520
someday. 
Aries on the other hand, madness

744
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,120
is a bit harder to predict other
than it being unpredictable, but

745
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,360
let's try to get in his head 
anyway. 

746
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,800
I think we can uncover a few 
things. 

747
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:54,880
An attorney of Harrenhal was the
first time Aries left the Red 

748
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,760
Keep since Duskindale. 
It was a surprise that he did so

749
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,080
after Duskindale. 
Of course. 

750
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,280
He killed off all the Darklands 
and Hollards, minus Dantos of 

751
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,400
course. 
Thanks Barristan, though, he was

752
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,760
pretty clearly in the right. 
On the occasion of duskindale, 

753
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,480
meaning Aries didn't do anything
wrong to make that happen. 

754
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,680
You know, it seems he was 
innocent, you know, in terms of 

755
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,320
like that situation until he 
killed all those people, until 

756
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,640
he had all those executions on 
it. 

757
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:27,640
He killed a lot of innocent 
people. 

758
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,840
In that case. 
It had been a horrible 

759
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,800
experience for him though, being
jailed and mocked. 

760
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,240
So he just didn't leave home 
anymore. 

761
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:36,280
Can't be, can't be jailed or 
seized or kidnapped if you never

762
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,760
leave home, right? 
That's, that's how he thought 

763
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,600
about it. 
The realm had seen him in his 

764
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,680
pretty starry state. 
Rather, when he went to 

765
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,920
Harrenhal, they saw his long 
hair and his nails and his 

766
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,800
frailty and his skinniness. 
He wasn't eating much, you know,

767
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,640
And his stooped bearing, like he
was a hunchback, sort of, and 

768
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,440
not because he had a problem, 
just because he was hunched. 

769
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,800
And his shifty eyes, I mean, it 
doesn't inspire confidence you 

770
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,160
don't like. 
That's our king. 

771
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,920
Remember very early in the Game 
of Thrones when John is seeing 

772
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560
everybody come into the dinner 
and and he thinks Jamie looks 

773
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,240
like a king, you know, and and 
yeah, this is the opposite. 

774
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,720
Imagine if you saw Aries. 
He's like then later he's like, 

775
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,200
wait, that's my great 
grandfather. 

776
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,880
That's my or not great grand. 
That's my grandfather. 

777
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,320
Crap, isn't it weird thing of 
John as the grandson of Aries? 

778
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:33,600
Yeah, it is weird. 
So was Aries reacting to that? 

779
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,480
Did he see how the realm saw 
him? 

780
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,560
Did he leave the Red Key for the
first time in 5-6 years? 

781
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,280
Maybe it was only four, but 
quite a few years. 

782
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,440
And the way people looked at 
him, the way they reacted and 

783
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,320
turned their face and kind of 
shocking, right? 

784
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,280
Did this make him go deeper into
his paranoia? 

785
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,440
Did this upset him to see how 
other people reacted to him? 

786
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,760
Did this make him more worried? 
I I might have. 

787
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,440
I don't think it went well. 
I don't think it made him feel 

788
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,200
good. 
At best case, it didn't bother 

789
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,000
him at all. 
At best case, it was a nothing. 

790
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,240
It definitely didn't make him 
feel good. 

791
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,840
And what did everybody think? 
And then they're seeing the 

792
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,760
petty way he treats Jamie. 
He invests him with the in the 

793
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,520
Kingsguard is an honorable noble
thing to do and sends him home. 

794
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,440
That's just weird and definitely
embarrassing. 

795
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:27,040
It's not like something that 
everyone's going to cheer the 

796
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,960
king for. 
It's clearly petty. 

797
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,040
It's clearly dramatic. 
It's but also confusing to them.

798
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,960
They don't really necessarily 
understand. 

799
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,840
A lot of the nobles would 
because they understand. 

800
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,680
They're aware of Tywin and 
Aries's problems, they're 

801
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,960
feuding and all that. 
That was public enough. 

802
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:45,640
So they would. 
Some people would have some idea

803
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,880
of what was going on there, but 
a lot of other people would just

804
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,040
be like, what is going on here? 
What is all this? 

805
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,280
And but it doesn't look good. 
It doesn't make Eris look good. 

806
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,360
It's not authoritative, it's not
kingly, it's not grand, it's 

807
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:04,040
petty, right? 
It's it's stooping and I'm using

808
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,440
a pun 'cause he was stooped to a
low to, to, to a level that's 

809
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,080
beneath a king, right. 
So this is a guy who never 

810
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,200
leaves the house and he's going 
to a huge party. 

811
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,400
It isn't just leaving the Red 
Keep for the first time in 

812
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,280
several years. 
He's going to a huge event. 

813
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,320
Not nearby. 
I mean, it's not like really 

814
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,200
far, but it's, you know, 10 days
journey, maybe a little longer 

815
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,720
if he's going by wheelhouse. 
I kind of doubt Erius is riding 

816
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,400
horseback himself given the way 
he was like, how's he holding 

817
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,160
the reins with those huge nails,
right? 

818
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,960
It's so weird to imagine doing 
anything with those long 

819
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,000
fingernails. 
Either way, it's kind of going 

820
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,440
to be an ordeal. 
Like his anxiety, you know, he 

821
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:43,840
hasn't left the Red Keeping all 
the time. 

822
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,000
He's probably like worried like 
bandits are going to attack 

823
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,520
them. 
Arrows are going to fly. 

824
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,360
You know, like all the things 
that maybe aren't rational 

825
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,800
because he's not rational. 
So you have to go beyond what, 

826
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,120
Like this is a place we could be
ambushed and he could be 

827
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,720
thinking that in a place that's 
completely unsuited for an 

828
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,640
attack. 
But Aries doesn't know strategy 

829
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,280
or battle tactics. 
He's just everywhere he goes, 

830
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:08,480
he's like, is this going to be 
it? 

831
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,800
Are they going to get me here? 
You know, he's just paranoid 

832
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,400
constantly. 
And now he's out in the world 

833
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,000
for the first time. 
And the reason he left, as far 

834
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,200
as we know, is because he was 
told by Varis that they were 

835
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,560
conspiring against him at this 
tournament. 

836
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,440
So he's also going there to 
confront or at least interrupt 

837
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,280
potential conspiracy against 
him. 

838
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:32,080
So the his paranoia is maximum, 
if there is a maximum for Aries.

839
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:36,720
And then there's this night of 
the Laughing Tree business. 

840
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,080
At first he was convinced the 
night of the Laughing Tree was 

841
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,800
Jamie, right? 
That's a detail people forget 

842
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,040
because that's in the world 
book, not in the main Song of 

843
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,480
Ice and Fire novels. 
I'm not sure Aries clung to that

844
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,760
belief in the long term. 
He he would have found out that,

845
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,640
yeah, Jamie did go back to the 
Red Keep. 

846
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,400
I mean, maybe he never even 
inquired. 

847
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,680
But yeah, that would have been 
strange, you know, to have the 

848
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,880
night of the Laughing Tree and 
never find out who that person 

849
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,600
was. 
But to also have a a weirwood 

850
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,640
tree in this northern 
association. 

851
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,600
What did Aries think of the 
Queen of love and beauty gift? 

852
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,080
What did Aries think of that of 
Rhaegar giving that to Lyanna? 

853
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,600
I mean, he's worried about 
Rhaegar plotting against him. 

854
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,080
He's been told that and now he's
flirting with a northern girl. 

855
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:23,080
What does that mean? 
Is Rhaegar trying to bring the 

856
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:28,160
North in and on his conspiracy? 
That's dangerous for Marius 

857
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:29,640
perspective. 
He's like oh oh, the North is 

858
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,640
going to join my son to 
overthrow me. 

859
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,080
This helps explain a little of 
his behavior later why he was so

860
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,920
incredibly savage in a way that 
was even a step farther from for

861
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,000
him. 
He's already burned people to 

862
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,560
death by this point. 
I mean, he already did what he 

863
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,480
did to the Hollards and 
Darklands. 

864
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,800
I'm not sure he burned all of 
them to death. 

865
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,520
He maybe he did. 
Either way, he had done other 

866
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,160
burnings. 
His love affair with the 

867
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:03,000
substance, with wildfire had 
begun by this point, so that's a

868
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,360
major consideration. 
His fear of his son and his 

869
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:12,600
son's associates, now them, that
includes northerners, and he's 

870
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,720
worried about what that could 
mean. 

871
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,840
And then this night of the 
laughing tree disappears. 

872
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,560
That just makes him even more 
paranoid about the whole thing. 

873
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,160
Like, who is this guy? 
We never found out who that was.

874
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,520
So he's got the North, he's got 
Rhaegar, he's the night of the 

875
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,200
Laughing Tree, lots of things 
bothering him, setting off his 

876
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,360
paranoia. 
And he's already very paranoid 

877
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,360
that he didn't need any more. 
And he's not smart. 

878
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,160
This guy isn't very bright. 
He's not able to, like, parse 

879
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,920
through some of his own paranoia
with some occasional doses of 

880
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,600
logic. 
He just doesn't have that. 

881
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,320
And there's all these things 
going on around him that are 

882
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:50,840
just going to set him off even 
more. 

883
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,720
So while Brandon was seething 
over Rhaegar, Aries was seething

884
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,080
over Starks and potential 
Northern enemies here. 

885
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,080
So here comes this Stark riding 
up into the Red Keep, demanding 

886
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:09,280
his son come out and die. 
Paranoia meet outrage. 

887
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,640
Didn't I teach the realm a 
lesson with how I punished the 

888
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,000
perpetrators of Duskindale? 
Must I teach them a sterner 

889
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,720
lesson? 
Must I do this all myself? 

890
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,840
It isn't enough for just this 
one son and his companion to be 

891
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,200
punished, though. 
Their fathers are responsible as

892
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,160
well. 
That's an unusual step. 

893
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,600
You don't normally arrest people
and say hey, bring your father's

894
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,640
2. 
When else does that ever happen?

895
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,040
Unless they're like, underage, 
right? 

896
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,960
And then still. 
And even in that case, we're 

897
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,560
talking about the real world. 
When? 

898
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,720
I cannot think of another 
example of that when a bunch of 

899
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,440
young nobles are seized and 
their fathers are called to 

900
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,200
account for it. 
Like Brandon's 20, this is, he's

901
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,440
been a man by the standards of 
this society for like 4 years. 

902
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,920
So this would have thrown some 
people for a loop right there. 

903
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,280
Just this whole demand to bring 
their fathers in. 

904
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,280
And there's a big, big wild card
here on top of all this. 

905
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,960
Varis, how much did Varis edge 
him along here or try to pull 

906
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,720
him back? 
Remember, Varis, as far as we 

907
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:18,000
can tell, came along after 
Duskindale, not long after 

908
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,440
Duskindale. 
So he would have been there for 

909
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,160
after Aries's madness. 
It was well underway and wasn't 

910
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,400
really there before it. 
He was part of the new paranoia 

911
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,520
package plan that Aries 
implemented. 

912
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,880
A guy to warn him about 
everything. 

913
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,240
And you know, if you believe 
Barristan and others, he warned 

914
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:37,600
him about things that weren't 
there. 

915
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,800
Now, Virus is far too cunning 
for us to make specific guesses 

916
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,520
as to what he would have said or
done at this time, but this 

917
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,720
isn't something I think he would
just stand by for. 

918
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:49,440
Is it going to be like just 
shrug and go? 

919
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,320
Or maybe he tried. 
I mean, Varis tried to tell 

920
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,800
Aries not to open the the gates 
to Tywin. 

921
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,480
He didn't listen to him then. 
And that was well, we know what 

922
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,760
happened after that. 
So maybe Virus was just don't do

923
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,520
this, you know, tried to used 
all his abilities of convincing 

924
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,840
his charisma, his I mean, his 
virus is good at that sort of 

925
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,320
thing, but it wasn't enough. 
This is a madman. 

926
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:12,680
This is an angry, paranoid 
madman. 

927
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,400
Even Virus can't work with that 
sometimes, I suppose. 

928
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,040
But maybe Virus was pushing him.
If Virus was pushing him, it'd 

929
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,680
be easy. 
It'd be like just a little bit 

930
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,400
is all I need to do is poke him 
here, prod once like this. 

931
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,160
Just a little bit of pressure 
here or there, and it's all it 

932
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,360
would take because Virus is all 
as good as Virus is at this 

933
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,520
man's already 2/3 of the way 
there, if not more. 

934
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:34,560
All of Virus has to do. 
Yeah. 

935
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,000
Just a little more push. 
That's all it takes. 

936
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,120
So let's consider a little 
briefly. 

937
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:44,560
Is the Fagon plan on yet? 
Arguably, yeah, this is the 

938
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,280
perfect time for it because 
consider this so much hinges on 

939
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,400
the baby swap. 
The baby swap doesn't work if 

940
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,000
it's a 2 year old, a four year 
old, a six year old. 

941
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,960
That kids going to have a lot 
more distinct appearance the 

942
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,400
older he gets. 
Babies are less distinct. 

943
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,480
Their hair isn't all the way in 
yet. 

944
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,640
Their eyes maybe change color. 
Yeah, they don't. 

945
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,800
They're not talking very much or
at all. 

946
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,800
It's easier to pull up a baby 
swap than a three-year old swap.

947
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,640
So really the time is kind of 
limited. 

948
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,760
This might have been the go time
for Varis. 

949
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,160
So yeah, he might have pushed 
Aries into doing stupid things 

950
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,840
into hey yeah, kill that Stark. 
It's perfect to start a war. 

951
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,840
Kill a guy that's at the center 
of starting a conspiracy to take

952
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,520
you on in the 1st place. 
Meanwhile Rhaegar is also there.

953
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,880
It's the perfect excuse. 
Maybe all Virus was trying to do

954
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,440
is get Rhaegar to replace him, 
but he might have wanted full 

955
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:41,880
blown civil war, which is what 
he got. 

956
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,600
On the other hand, we don't know
that that this far back. 

957
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,520
We can't assume that was 
actually the plan. 

958
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,280
We don't know that Virus and 
Illyrio had to had conceived of 

959
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,320
the Phagon plan that far back. 
But the timing is about right. 

960
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:01,320
So it's interesting to consider.
But back to Aries, I think the 

961
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,400
most likely thing is Virus had 
very little to do with any of 

962
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,320
this because he would have 
reacted to the news. 

963
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,120
He would have done his thing. 
And this, this does kind of read

964
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,800
like the reactions of a madman, 
a paranoid madman, you know, 

965
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,280
kill them and kill all the 
people associated with them to 

966
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:16,680
make sure that they don't come 
get me. 

967
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,480
It's not very thoughtful. 
It's not very clean. 

968
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,080
It's not very subtle. 
And Virus, you know, maybe Virus

969
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,720
wanted him to do unsubtle things
to take advantage of that chaos.

970
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:27,680
But I don't know, It's tricky, 
right? 

971
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,720
Very tricky. 
A crazy parallel here would be 

972
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,640
if Virus recommended, Yeah, 
imprison Brandon, imprison those

973
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:37,960
guys. 
And he hopes to calm the 

974
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,720
situation down and find a 
diplomatic resolve, just like 

975
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,200
maybe Rickard would have wanted 
to do as we'll discuss like 

976
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,880
Varus did with Ned. 
Get Ned in jail, you know, help 

977
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,560
all that. 
Don't do anything to stop that. 

978
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,160
Allow it to happen, and then try
to work out a solution. 

979
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,120
Send Ned to the Wall. 
That's not going to start war 

980
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,080
between the two families only 
for the king to go overboard 

981
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,240
with punishment. 
In that case, Joffrey. 

982
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,280
Maybe Egg gone by Littlefinger. 
Either way, Joffrey did it and 

983
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,600
here we have a similar potential
situation. 

984
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:13,400
Maybe Varys egged on Aries to do
certain things with Brandon and 

985
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,560
his companions. 
Either way though, if Varys had 

986
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,560
a plan, I would believe that 
because Varys is a planner. 

987
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,600
Aries though again I don't. 
I don't know if there was much 

988
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,280
plan. 
I think plan is the wrong word 

989
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,400
to assign to what Aries is 
doing. 

990
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:30,000
I think reacting is more likely,
which is, again, is kind of what

991
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,560
Brandon was doing. 
And both of them had time to 

992
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,160
cool down and neither of them 
did. 

993
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,080
So a lot of things in common 
between Brandon, Aries, even 

994
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,000
though Aries is a villain here 
and Brandon is not, there's 

995
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,360
still a lot of, like, emotional 
states that they shared at 

996
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,920
similar steps in this process. 
So again, didn't harm the 

997
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,480
prisoners right away, just 
accuse them of treason, which is

998
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,240
a very heavy accusation, of 
course. 

999
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,440
But at first, he appeared ready 
to adjudicate this like a 

1000
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,240
relatively normal king would. 
This might be where he's got a 

1001
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:59,800
little bit of a plan. 
He's like, yeah, I'm going to, 

1002
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,480
I'm going to lure their fathers 
here on pretenses of justice and

1003
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,840
then just have them all killed. 
That could also have been 

1004
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,360
Avari's idea, but it's simple 
enough that you don't need to 

1005
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,280
assign it to somebody else. 
When you have a complicated plan

1006
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:19,440
executed by a simple person, you
think you wonder if someone gave

1007
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,120
them the idea. 
This is kind of simple in the 

1008
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:26,560
1st place, you know? 
So yeah, I don't have to assume 

1009
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,760
Avari's was involved. 
It's just a possibility. 

1010
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,160
Another person Privy to some of 
this that I wonder about is 

1011
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,280
Paisel. 
He would have been the one to 

1012
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,280
send the letter demanding that 
the Lord's come to answer for 

1013
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,000
their son's conspiracy, right? 
So that he would, he would have 

1014
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,560
been aware. 
I don't know he would do much 

1015
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:45,560
about it either. 
Just be like, uh oh. 

1016
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,400
And honestly, Paisel was 
probably just too busy thinking 

1017
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,920
about how Tywin was right about 
everything because that's how 

1018
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,120
Paisel thinks, right? 
Aries, on the other hand, might 

1019
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,000
have actually been excited. 
He might have been like, yeah, I

1020
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,560
can't wait to kill these guys. 
I got them. 

1021
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,120
He might have been feeling like 
a winner. 

1022
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,480
He threw these dudes in jail. 
Look how stupid they are. 

1023
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,520
I caught them. 
You know, I, I, I broke up 

1024
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,760
conspiracy up, like I'm winning.
You know, again, it's hard to 

1025
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:12,960
predict how a paranoid mind is 
working here. 

1026
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,240
But we know that Aries was 
manic, that he would go from, 

1027
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,400
you know, all the way from very 
high to very low. 

1028
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,640
He could go from historical 
laughter to uncontrollable 

1029
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,560
weeping at the the drop of a 
hat. 

1030
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:32,440
So these extremes are absolutely
in his wheelhouse, but we have 

1031
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,600
to keep in mind that the 
wheelhouse is huge. 

1032
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:37,960
There's a lot, there's a lot of 
different extremes that are 

1033
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,760
possible here. 
But anyway, I do think that 

1034
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,960
that's likely that he was 
feeling temporarily confident 

1035
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,040
because, well, he had his 
enemies in prison. 

1036
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,520
He had some very powerful, 
important hostages that gave him

1037
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,160
some leverage. 
He had captured, in his mind, he

1038
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,200
had captured Jamie recently too.
So he was, he was looking pretty

1039
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,280
good there against the people 
that that in his mind were after

1040
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,440
him. 
Meanwhile, what was Aries 

1041
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:01,560
thinking about radar? 
Like? 

1042
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,040
Where does he think radar even 
is? 

1043
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:08,280
Like we don't know where If they
had already gotten to the Tower 

1044
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,160
of Joy by this point, they may 
have still been travelling to it

1045
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,360
by this point or if it's even 
where they went first. 

1046
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,840
But Aries might not have had any
idea. 

1047
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,720
He's like, I don't know. 
I have any clue where my son 

1048
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:18,840
went. 
Does he care? 

1049
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,480
Does he think, oh, he's off 
conspiring? 

1050
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,280
Or does he think hey I caught 
some of your Co conspirators 

1051
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,120
here? 
I mean that doesn't make any 

1052
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,240
sense that Brandon would be 
working with Rhaegar right? 

1053
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,680
He hates him. 
But paranoid mind, insane mind 

1054
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,080
here. 
These only these things don't 

1055
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,160
have to be rational. 
The point kind of is without 

1056
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,360
throwing out too many more 
examples, just this was perhaps 

1057
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,880
inflaming his suspicions. 
The fact that his son was still 

1058
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,360
gone, maybe ran off with that 
Stark girl. 

1059
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,160
He doesn't like that. 
And maybe it's not his primary 

1060
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,680
concern. 
That would be these, these 

1061
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,320
northern people, you know, these
sons and and the ones he just 

1062
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,240
put in jail. 
That would wouldn't matter more 

1063
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:00,480
to him. 
He might be thinking, oh, that 

1064
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,080
Lyanna, that northern girl got 
away, but these ones won't. 

1065
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,600
He may have already decided what
he was going to do. 

1066
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,920
Like I said, said, hey, I'm 
going to lure them here and have

1067
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,280
them all killed. 
Whether he had already decided 

1068
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,200
on how to kill them, that may 
have been something he was still

1069
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,160
working on, like workshopping. 
What's the cruelest way I can 

1070
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,880
have these all kill? 
This is another thing where I 

1071
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,360
wonder, you know, if he had some
suggestions from some of his 

1072
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,120
lickspittles, some people that 
were like, hey, OK, so Council, 

1073
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,800
come to a meeting here. 
I want to see, I need ideas on 

1074
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,160
really horrific ways to execute 
people. 

1075
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,960
Hit me, you know, give me their 
best ideas on how to kill people

1076
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,640
horrifically. 
You know, that's what's a really

1077
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,440
cruel way to do this. 
Anyway, there's a lot of good 

1078
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,120
reasons, right? 
If if Aries kills enough Starks 

1079
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,640
or enough Northerners, one of 
them's bound to be the night of 

1080
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,920
the Laughing Tree, right? 
Just kill enough Northerners 

1081
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,960
and, you know, yeah, you can 
feel confident that one of them 

1082
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,000
was that gosh darn night of the 
Laughing Tree. 

1083
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,160
And if not, he's probably killed
a lot of his son's allies. 

1084
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,680
You know, I just did. 
It's got to be a good thing, 

1085
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,840
right? 
This is move ahead with 

1086
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,760
confidence here, Aries. 
Let's talk about Lord Ricard. 

1087
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,720
Move over to him. 
Because Aries sent those demands

1088
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:12,960
out. 
Or rather, Paisel sent the 

1089
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,520
demands made by Aries out, and 
Lord Ricard received it. 

1090
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,960
Now we're going to kind of 
assume that all these Lords were

1091
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,160
together again. 
All those guys were with Brandon

1092
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:26,720
because they were his companions
and they were there for the 

1093
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,200
wedding. 
His those fathers would have 

1094
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,320
probably been there too. 
If not, we've got people 

1095
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,360
traveling from all over and it 
gets a little wonky the 

1096
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,400
timeline. 
So I assume they were all on the

1097
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,320
way to the wedding or at the 
wedding, or, yeah, waiting for 

1098
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,560
the wedding to start. 
But for whatever reasons, 

1099
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,760
Brandon rode to King's Landing 
with just those few companions. 

1100
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,480
And we have no idea what Lord 
Rickard thought about that. 

1101
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,800
We could be pretty sure he 
didn't consent to it. 

1102
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,640
But, you know, he couldn't stop 
his son if his son is 

1103
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,680
headstrong. 
And what's he going to do, Lock 

1104
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,120
him up on the road? 
Tie him up? 

1105
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:56,800
It's not like they have a jail 
cell to put him in. 

1106
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,080
They're travelling, you know, 
they're going down the King's 

1107
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,880
Road. 
Just limited means to prevent 

1108
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,840
him. 
What was Rickard doing, though? 

1109
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,560
His son runs off to King's 
Landing. 

1110
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,160
What's he doing? 
Is he just like, well, let's see

1111
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,160
how this goes? 
Well, what else is he going to 

1112
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,040
do, right? 
What else could he do? 

1113
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,280
Send men to chase after him? 
We already talked about that. 

1114
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,280
That wouldn't have worked. 
Brandon, be like, I'm not going 

1115
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,720
with you. 
Try to stop me. 

1116
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,200
I'm there to Winterfell. 
I outrank you. 

1117
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,600
If this comes to swords, you're 
never going to you're not going 

1118
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,160
to hurt me. 
That go, you know, so I I can I 

1119
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,360
can bluff my way through this 
because you can't hurt me. 

1120
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,160
And I'm like, yeah, OK, good 
point. 

1121
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:36,400
You know, so there's nothing you
can do. 

1122
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:38,600
They can't chase after him. 
They'll never catch him. 

1123
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,160
It's it's it's kind of puts him 
in between a rock and a hard 

1124
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,680
place. 
Rick Hard's got like well, send 

1125
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,800
men after him to help. 
That might just antagonize Aries

1126
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,520
right. 
And it's more stark showing up. 

1127
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,200
Was he more concerned about his 
alliance falling apart? 

1128
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,760
Was he commiserating with 
hoster? 

1129
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,080
Was he trying to get word to 
John Aaron say hey, you know, 

1130
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,040
watch out for all this. 
Your son just ran off with my 

1131
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,760
son or your nephew just ran off 
with my son. 

1132
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:07,880
You know, I wanted to make you 
aware of it. 

1133
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,880
He's very concerned about his S 
run ambitions and his alliances 

1134
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,560
and you know, he he would have 
be concerned that Brandon ran 

1135
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,040
off to deal with this thing that
he probably can't do anything 

1136
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,160
about in the short term when he 
should be getting married to 

1137
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,160
Catlin to shore up that river 
run alliance that Tully Stark. 

1138
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,800
Marriage needs to happen. 
Why not get married first, then 

1139
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,080
run off and go try to find out 
what happened to your sister? 

1140
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:32,440
What's the worst that could 
happen? 

1141
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,240
What's Regar and Leona doing? 
They're just having a fling. 

1142
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,440
Who cares? 
That's not that big a deal. 

1143
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,960
Come on, son, is it really that 
big a problem? 

1144
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,960
Robert's still going to marry 
her. 

1145
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,080
He loves her. 
He's infatuated. 

1146
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,840
Don't worry about it. 
Of course, these are just ideas.

1147
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,080
We don't really know what kind 
of man Rick Hart was, but we do 

1148
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:56,640
know he didn't actively, you 
know, send men or react angrily,

1149
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:01,240
or he had a calmer, more 
collected reaction. 

1150
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:07,240
And yeah, he would be concerned 
as a father, I'm sure, too. 

1151
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,440
But it might not have been #1 on
his list and he might have been 

1152
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,040
more concerned about. 
Brandon, then Liana, he might 

1153
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,000
have actually been more worried 
about Brandon Liana because he's

1154
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,840
thinking, well, Liana's, you 
know, she's not in danger of 

1155
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,440
dying. 
Brandon's the one who's running,

1156
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,960
running off hot headed, you 
know, going to confront the 

1157
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,440
king. 
Now I, I kind of assume also 

1158
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,560
that their mother was dead by 
this point, meaning Liara, 

1159
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,280
Ricard's wife. 
She was also a Stark, by the 

1160
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,160
way, that was, that was Ricard's
cousin or else she would have 

1161
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,400
been at the wedding too and she 
would have had thoughts on this.

1162
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,600
So she said she's never 
mentioned here. 

1163
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,200
It's it's, it could be a case of
just, you know, she didn't get 

1164
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:48,880
mentioned, but I guess she was 
already passed by this point. 

1165
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,480
But let's also not forget that 
there is a little unusual thing 

1166
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,360
here going and why Ricard may 
have been a little concerned 

1167
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,080
about making sure his plans 
weren't interrupted. 

1168
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,320
The era of Winterfell, marrying 
a southern girl, highly unusual.

1169
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,600
The rank isn't the problem. 
The Tully's are very high rank. 

1170
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:09,400
That's fine. 
But when had the heir to 

1171
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,920
Winterfell married a Southern 
girl in the past? 

1172
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,480
How many examples are that? 
There's very few. 

1173
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,720
You've got Kragen marrying a 
Southern girl, but that was a 

1174
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,520
worshipper of the old gods and 
that wasn't even his first wife.

1175
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:27,200
So yeah, it's I don't know that 
there are other examples. 

1176
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,400
So that's odd. 
Right. 

1177
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,920
So that's part of the calculus 
here is all these big plans and 

1178
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,720
schemes that are going on that 
that Brandon sort of interrupted

1179
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,400
by rushing off to do something 
that he couldn't do anything 

1180
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,160
about. 
So yeah, what is Rickard's 

1181
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,120
thinking here? 
He's like, well, Brandon's going

1182
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,720
to run off and yell at them, and
I'll have to go deal with that. 

1183
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,960
But he probably just like 
Brandon isn't worried about 

1184
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,040
being killed. 
It's, it doesn't seem like a 

1185
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,480
rational potential thing that 
could happen just for words. 

1186
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,520
When you're that high-ranking, 
you can get away with words to 

1187
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,280
the king, to the queen, to 
whoever. 

1188
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:08,320
It doesn't usually because they 
know that treating your vassals 

1189
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,440
so lightly, treating them with 
contempt, treating them with 

1190
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,240
violence will lead to 
significant other violence, 

1191
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,920
which I mean, that did happen, 
right? 

1192
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,480
That is exactly what eventually 
happened. 

1193
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:18,880
And that it wasn't 
unpredictable. 

1194
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,840
It wasn't like, Oh my God, I 
can't believe this turned into a

1195
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,000
civil war once all those people 
were killed. 

1196
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,720
It was like, yeah, well, this is
of course, this is going to turn

1197
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:31,640
into a civil war. 
So that's a major difference 

1198
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,560
from Brandon, who was really 
just focused on Liana, 1000% 

1199
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,760
focused blinders, not thinking 
about anything else, doesn't 

1200
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,760
care about the alliance, doesn't
care about his own life, doesn't

1201
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,080
care about how mad the king is. 
He's like, Liana must get. 

1202
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,760
Liana must, you know, Rhaegar 
must answer for this. 

1203
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,440
Rickard's got way more things to
think about. 

1204
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,080
He's got to think about both his
kids. 

1205
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,800
He's got to think about all 
these alliances. 

1206
01:02:58,800 --> 01:02:59,920
He's got to think about the 
king. 

1207
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:02,560
What's the best way to deal with
this madman? 

1208
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,480
It's not just charging right at 
him with your demands. 

1209
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:07,600
On the other hand, his son's 
already doing that. 

1210
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:09,440
So what does he do about the 
fact that his son's already 

1211
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,680
charging in with demands? 
Assuming he even knows what his 

1212
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,400
son is doing, which maybe he 
doesn't. 

1213
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:19,240
We do hear Hoster Tully saying 
that Gallant fool Catelyn 

1214
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,200
remembers that, so he has. 
They seem to have some idea of 

1215
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,840
what Brandon was doing. 
They call him Gallant, so they 

1216
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,040
have an idea. 
We talked about how Brandon is 

1217
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:32,080
an unknown commodity to Ares and
Rhaegar, but Ricard is the only 

1218
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,000
one in this scenario who 
actually knows all his children 

1219
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,600
really well. 
Rhaegar doesn't know Brandon 

1220
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,160
that well. 
Aries doesn't know Brandon or 

1221
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,440
Liana that well. 
Ricard presumably knows his kids

1222
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,360
pretty well. 
Maybe he's a bad father and 

1223
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:43,920
doesn't know their 
personalities, but I'm going to 

1224
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,960
go with he knows his kids well 
enough to have some 

1225
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,040
understanding of how they'll 
behave in these scenarios 

1226
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,120
they've gotten themselves into. 
And he has experience with Aries

1227
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:53,960
unlike everybody else here as 
well. 

1228
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:55,960
There's some interesting 
timeline here. 

1229
01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:00,040
Let's delve into that briefly. 
In the year 262, Brandon was 

1230
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,760
born. 
That's the same year Aries took 

1231
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,280
the throne. 
So since that was their first 

1232
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,440
born child, Ricard and Liara 
Stark, so that their first born 

1233
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,760
was born that year. 
So Brandon born in 262, the same

1234
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,520
year Aries takes the throne. 
So Brandon's entire life has 

1235
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:19,160
been under this same king and 
Ricard, of course, that's 20 

1236
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,480
years. 
So that's some quite a while. 

1237
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,320
We know at least once Ricard 
went to King's Landing, it was 

1238
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,560
264, so only two years after 
Aries became king. 

1239
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,520
He wasn't nearly deep into his 
madness yet. 

1240
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:37,400
He was, you know, maybe a guy 
that spoke with delusions of 

1241
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:38,840
grandeur. 
He could see maybe the 

1242
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,440
beginnings of his madness, but 
maybe it wouldn't have been seen

1243
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,640
as madness, just dreaminess or a
guy with a big imagination or a 

1244
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,480
guy with big plans and not a lot
of follow through. 

1245
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,280
That isn't necessarily madness, 
right? 

1246
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,760
The idea was, hey, oh, I like 
what you're talking about with 

1247
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,480
this wall and the lands beyond 
the north. 

1248
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:58,280
What if we build a second wall 
farther north and, you know, 

1249
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:03,040
claim the lands in between, 
which is kind of like what the 

1250
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,920
Romans tried to do with 
Hadrian's Wall and the Antonine 

1251
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,880
Wall didn't work, but they 
actually built the Antonine 

1252
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:14,160
Wall, whereas Aries just kind of
kind of forgot about that idea 

1253
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,560
later or just got a different 
got excited about different 

1254
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,920
plans instead. 
So it's possible Ricard had the 

1255
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,080
wrong idea about Aries. 
He may have been remembering the

1256
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,760
Aries he knew back then and 
wasn't up to snuff on what kind 

1257
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,320
of man he'd become. 
But that's not super likely 

1258
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,480
because again, Ricard was would 
have known about the long 

1259
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,280
fingernails and the long hair 
and the burnings of people and 

1260
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,880
what happened to the Darklands 
and Hollards and all the 

1261
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,280
Duskandale stuff. 
So I don't know. 

1262
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:47,880
I there's at least he should 
know some things, but he might 

1263
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,360
have been in the dark about just
how mad Aries had become. 

1264
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,920
But even if he had, what's he 
going to do again? 

1265
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,120
He can't chase after his son. 
He can't stop it from happening.

1266
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,680
This is a ball that's rolling 
downhill when he's already he's 

1267
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,120
at the top of the hill. 
He can't do anything about 

1268
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:04,880
something that's already going 
on like that. 

1269
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,920
He has all this information, but
he has little ability to do 

1270
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,520
anything about it. 
He's the Lord of Winterfell, but

1271
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,000
he's kind of helpless here. 
The only person he doesn't know 

1272
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,280
here, the only person he doesn't
have a read on, is Jamie. 

1273
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,480
And Jamie is just a witness in 
this episode, even though he's a

1274
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,520
very important witness. 
Jamie is irrelevant to Ricard. 

1275
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,360
So it's definitely a question of
what Ricard did. 

1276
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:29,800
We really want to know what he 
thought, what what he expected 

1277
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:31,920
or what he believed would 
happen. 

1278
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,760
Was he too distracted by his own
plan to consider how bad it 

1279
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,640
could go? 
Was he telling himself that this

1280
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,360
could all be resolved? 
Was he thinking, hey, let me go 

1281
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,800
get all of our allies and come 
in strength and present 

1282
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,480
ourselves before the king as a 
group before he got the Raven 

1283
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,520
saying you got to come now, 
right? 

1284
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:54,920
He may have had a different plan
before the King's demand for him

1285
01:06:54,920 --> 01:07:00,120
to show up with the news that 
his son was accused of plotting 

1286
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:04,560
to kill the Crown Prince. 
I don't think he expected that, 

1287
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,600
you know, I don't think he 
expected your son is accused of 

1288
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:10,120
conspiracy to murder the Crown 
Prince. 

1289
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,640
He he he probably considered the
worst case scenario and that 

1290
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,840
might have been beyond what it 
was other than, you know, 

1291
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,120
actually succeeding in murdering
the Crown Prince. 

1292
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,000
That might have been the true 
worst case scenario. 

1293
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,120
So Ricard isn't Privy to what 
happened. 

1294
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,880
Ricard doesn't know exactly what
words were exchanged in the 

1295
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:28,800
courtyard. 
He gets a letter from Aries 

1296
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,440
saying, you know, plotting to to
kill the Crown Prince. 

1297
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:33,120
He doesn't know actually what 
happens. 

1298
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,240
It must have seemed really 
weird, though. 

1299
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,560
He's like my son. 
The headstrong wolf blooded kid 

1300
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,920
plotted to murder the Crown 
Prince. 

1301
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:43,280
It doesn't sound like him at 
all. 

1302
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,600
If he had been told. 
Yeah, he ran in and demanded the

1303
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,960
king send out Rhaegar to come 
and die. 

1304
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,880
That sounds like my son. 
Yeah, that sounds like what he 

1305
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,760
would do. 
He knows his son is headstrong, 

1306
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,800
not some schemer. 
He's not cunning. 

1307
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,240
He's direct. 
Right. 

1308
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:00,920
That's, that's the kind of man 
Brandon was. 

1309
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,920
So whatever the various 
considerations, whatever 

1310
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,520
conflict was in his heart, 
whatever he thought would have 

1311
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:09,600
been ideal, it doesn't 
necessarily matter. 

1312
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,680
He really had no choice. 
He couldn't just abandoned his 

1313
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,600
son to Ares. 
He couldn't allow the honor of 

1314
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,920
how Stark to be treated any 
other way. 

1315
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,080
He had to put his life on the 
line. 

1316
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,680
He had to show up for the trial.
He had to find a diplomatic 

1317
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,479
solution or die trying because 
the honor of his house demanded 

1318
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,680
it. 
Great houses don't sit idly by 

1319
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,720
when their heirs are in peril, 
especially when it's an 

1320
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,120
injustice. 
And this was more than just a 

1321
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:39,560
Stark. 
This was, you know, an Aaron and

1322
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,800
a Glover and a Royce and a 
Malicer. 

1323
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:45,439
So Ricard had to go to King's 
Landing and answer for Brandon 

1324
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,240
and forget all the stuff I just 
said. 

1325
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:49,279
It's important. 
But he also just have, you know,

1326
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:53,439
this is a son and a father, like
a lot of fathers would do this 

1327
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:56,720
regardless, just to stand up for
their son. 

1328
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:58,720
But it's still, it's ominous, 
isn't it? 

1329
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,040
Again, I, I point back to this. 
Who does this? 

1330
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,560
Who summons the fathers to 
answer for the crimes of their 

1331
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:06,160
sons? 
That's unusual. 

1332
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:10,960
You wonder if Ricard sent 
anything ahead, like some men 

1333
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:15,040
to, to scout out surreptitiously
the mood of the city or anything

1334
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,080
like that, find out some details
because he wouldn't believe the 

1335
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:20,920
letter outright. 
And the letter wouldn't have all

1336
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,359
the details. 
One thing he might have been 

1337
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:26,200
able to do before Brandon got 
there was send a Raven and say, 

1338
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,600
hey, my son's on his way. 
You know, sorry if he's angry. 

1339
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,680
But maybe that just didn't seem 
like the right plan. 

1340
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:34,399
Or maybe he did do that. 
It didn't matter. 

1341
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:38,680
Like all the other parties so 
far, Rickard would have had a 

1342
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,560
lot of time to think about this 
on the road, riding the King's 

1343
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:46,600
Landing, Hopeful outcomes, the 
worst case scenarios, all the 

1344
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,520
things Aries might do in each 
case and how he might respond to

1345
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,279
the each of those individual 
things Aries might do. 

1346
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:54,240
He's like, OK, if Aries says 
this, I need to say this and 

1347
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,520
this and that. 
If Aries does this, I need to do

1348
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:57,880
this. 
He's thinking all these 

1349
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:03,760
permutations through in his head
and all the the the very slender

1350
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,960
hope he might have had of 
finding a way out of this. 

1351
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,720
Now, who went with him? 
I guess he had a retinue, would 

1352
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,680
have included those other 
fathers, maybe a few other 

1353
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,520
guards. 
But I would have thought, I 

1354
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,400
mean, I would think it would be 
kind of a small group. 

1355
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,240
Must have been a grim 
procession, however big it was. 

1356
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,520
Brandon in his companions might 
have had the idealism of youth 

1357
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,240
paired with rank and anger and 
just, you know, they felt like 

1358
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,160
they had justice on their side. 
These are much more experienced,

1359
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:33,480
not naive men. 
They would have had a much more 

1360
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:38,080
realistic view of their outlook.
But even with that, I don't 

1361
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,680
think they had much idea what 
was coming for them. 

1362
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,080
You know, I don't think they 
expected just how bad Aries 

1363
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,040
would be. 
So they would have arrived, gone

1364
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:52,360
to the Red Keep, brought inside.
They wouldn't have been yelling 

1365
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,720
like there was with Brandon. 
Probably they would have 

1366
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,400
submitted, said, hey, we're here
to answer the crimes. 

1367
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,200
We're here for the trial. 
You know, maybe they were 

1368
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,120
arrested or just put in tower 
cells or just, you know, given 

1369
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,640
freedom of the castle house 
arrest, something like that. 

1370
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:14,400
Maybe they were brought before 
the king very quickly tried to 

1371
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,760
argue, maybe tried to dissuade 
him from this course of action. 

1372
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:19,920
Obviously it didn't work, but he
tried. 

1373
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,520
Maybe it seems like he would 
have at least given it a shot. 

1374
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,000
Maybe it was just simply 
straight to the matter, an 

1375
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,520
immediate demand for trial by 
combat. 

1376
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,160
He's like, no, we're, we're not 
going to argue. 

1377
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:29,800
This is what's up. 
He's like, OK, trial by combat. 

1378
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,320
I demand that. 
Now, we don't know what kind of 

1379
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,760
swordsman Rickard was, but we 
must recall that Aries's 

1380
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,280
Kingsguard was considered 
legendary. 

1381
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,520
And it's not hard to see why. 
Jamie Arthur, Dane Barrison, the

1382
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:45,360
Bold, Sir Gerald Hightower, the 
White Bull, Oswald went, Prince 

1383
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,480
Lewin, Martel, Jonathan Derry, 
and these were this is a 

1384
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,800
murderer's row right here. 
He expected to fight one of them

1385
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:57,480
and presumably, and that's 
reasonable, that's rationable, 

1386
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,160
rational, that's what you would 
expect. 

1387
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,720
Like you go to fight the crown, 
the Kingsguard represented. 

1388
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,480
In fact, that's it has to be. 
And we see in A Song of Ice and 

1389
01:12:05,480 --> 01:12:10,320
Fire, Cersei considers other 
options like, Nope, got to be 

1390
01:12:10,440 --> 01:12:12,320
got to be the faith, you know? 
And then she turns that around 

1391
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,560
on them later, right? 
It's got to be the faith, got to

1392
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,560
be, got to be the the Kingsguard
only has to be the king guard, 

1393
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:17,960
only choice. 
You can't pick someone else. 

1394
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,520
So Ricard was ready to face 
that. 

1395
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,880
And, you know, he probably 
talked to some of the other 

1396
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:29,440
Lords they may have been waiting
and to see, hey, if you win this

1397
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:31,680
trial by combat, then we're all 
innocent, right? 

1398
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,520
How can Brandon be innocent and 
the rest of the sons be guilty 

1399
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:40,560
if they're just supporting him? 
If his actions were justifiable,

1400
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,040
then them supporting those 
actions have to be justifiable 

1401
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,760
too, right? 
So I kind of guess Ricard was 

1402
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:51,400
first here, but maybe not. 
It's possible that the other 

1403
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:53,920
Lords had already been all 
murdered by the time they got 

1404
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:55,960
around to Ricard. 
I kind of think it went the 

1405
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:57,320
other way. 
I kind of think Ricard went 

1406
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:00,160
first, but I'm open to multiple 
possibilities. 

1407
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:04,120
Either way, let's move on to our
final character perspective, 

1408
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,400
Jamie. 
He's the only one who still 

1409
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,360
survives among the four. 
Of course, he's the one who 

1410
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,080
killed the one that killed the 
other two. 

1411
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,320
In many ways, he's the simplest 
as well, because he doesn't do 

1412
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:23,640
anything during this episode. 
He is a witness. 

1413
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:27,080
He has no agency whatsoever. 
It deeply impacted him. 

1414
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:30,920
It absolutely has a huge impact 
on his personality and how he 

1415
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:36,680
views knighthood, the white 
cloak kings, Westeros, honor 

1416
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,360
duty. 
It's huge. 

1417
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:45,600
But this was one of the earliest
hits to his ideals, one of the 

1418
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,760
biggest ones. 
He might even, as we said early 

1419
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,440
on, be one of the be the only 
living survivor of these 

1420
01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:53,120
executions. 
Again, we can't assume Barristan

1421
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:56,680
was there. 
Barristan thinks of standing by 

1422
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,480
the Iron Throne quote as 
Jaharis's son descended into 

1423
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:04,520
madness and doing nothing. 
He also thinks of things that it

1424
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,720
pained him to recall, but 
nothing specific. 

1425
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,920
Like, you could easily imagine 
Brandon and Ricard being one of 

1426
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,600
those things. 
But if Barristan saw all those 

1427
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,640
other executions, so many other 
burnings, well, that one, it 

1428
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:22,920
might just kind of be all part 
of that montage of horror. 

1429
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,000
But you'd also think that, you 
know, there's other people to 

1430
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,680
guard. 
Eris had Raela and young 

1431
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,520
Viserys. 
And for a while there, Eris was 

1432
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,240
really paranoid about anything 
that could happen to his kids 

1433
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,200
because of what happened to so 
many of his babies. 

1434
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:39,800
But he had left them alone 
before, unguarded. 

1435
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:43,000
Like when he went to Harrenhal 
for the tournament, he took all 

1436
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,920
7 Kingsguard, well, the six. 
And then he made Jamie the 7th 

1437
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:47,480
and sent him home. 
And that's what he said he was 

1438
01:14:47,480 --> 01:14:49,040
sending him home to do. 
He said, hey, I'm sending him 

1439
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:53,160
back to guard Raela and Viserys.
Of course, that's not why he did

1440
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:54,600
it. 
It was the pettiness. 

1441
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:57,600
But that's what he said because 
it was a decent cover story, 

1442
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:00,720
because that is a normal thing 
for kings guard to do, guard the

1443
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,000
other members of the royal 
family. 

1444
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,560
So otherwise, yeah, guards, 
servants, no one with an 

1445
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,520
identity that we could discern. 
One of the possibilities that 

1446
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,200
was Varus. 
Again, he's somebody that could 

1447
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:13,680
have watched. 
I don't know if Varus is like, 

1448
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:15,200
do I really need to be here to 
watch this? 

1449
01:15:15,480 --> 01:15:17,800
Maybe yes, because he needs to 
be there to support area. 

1450
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:21,480
I got to support my king in all 
his burnings, all his horrible 

1451
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:24,360
execution, all his tyrannies. 
I need to be here to witness, to

1452
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:25,880
stand by his side and support 
him. 

1453
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,120
Or perhaps he found a reason to 
be somewhere else because he's 

1454
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:30,800
like, I do not want to be here 
for that. 

1455
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,640
I do not need to smell roasting 
flesh again. 

1456
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:39,440
So here's what Jamie says 
happened after Lord Ricard 

1457
01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:45,400
arrived and demanded a trial. 
There were trials of a sort. 

1458
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:50,640
Lord Ricard demanded trial by 
combat and the King granted the 

1459
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,040
request. 
Stark armored himself As for 

1460
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:57,480
battle, thinking to duel one of 
the Kingsguard. 

1461
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,240
Me perhaps? 
Instead they took him to the 

1462
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:06,680
throne room and suspended him 
from the rafters while 2 of Ares

1463
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:10,240
pyromancers kindled a blaze 
beneath him. 

1464
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,640
The King told him that fire was 
the champion of House Targaryen,

1465
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:20,800
so all Lord Ricard needed to do 
to prove himself innocent of 

1466
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:25,720
treason was, well, not burn. 
I guess Danny could have passed 

1467
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,440
that test. 
Hey, she's the only one that's 

1468
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:30,640
the innocent of treason is 
Daenerys. 

1469
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,720
So Ricard started the affair 
believing he would have a 

1470
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,560
regular duel, even though he 
would have likely thought his 

1471
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,520
chances poor. 
He might have still had, you 

1472
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:42,080
know, appropriate warrior 
confidence. 

1473
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,720
And certainly the cause of 
righteousness on his side. 

1474
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,720
He bothered to put on his armor 
and all that. 

1475
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,560
So, yeah, he went in there 
expecting it. 

1476
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:50,960
But then they suspended him from
the rafters. 

1477
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,680
Did he did he fight back? 
Was he seized by a bunch of 

1478
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:55,040
guards? 
And they just held him. 

1479
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,520
And I doubt he submits to this 
quietly. 

1480
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,920
I mean, it's he gets there and 
expects to duel and they're 

1481
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,560
immediately disarming him. 
And this isn't right. 

1482
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,720
No one would have been pleased 
to carry out this order, right? 

1483
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:10,520
The guards been like the, yeah, 
maybe a random psycho or two who

1484
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:12,680
happened to be in the King's 
employ and maybe some of the 

1485
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:14,960
pyromancers, they're always, 
they're all about this kind of 

1486
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:15,720
thing. 
They're they're, they're 

1487
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,080
preloaded with a lot of this 
evil. 

1488
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:25,240
So let's just take a second to 
appreciate just how blatant this

1489
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:31,160
is in terms of the feudal system
and a King's rights and duties 

1490
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:35,360
and that of his vassals. 
I'll take Nina's lead on it 

1491
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,200
here. 
What Aries did with Brandon and 

1492
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:42,120
Rickard specifically, and the 
other nobles too, whose names we

1493
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,520
don't fully know, was to say 
essentially, hey, the feudal 

1494
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,280
system, feudal contract doesn't 
exist anymore, I can do whatever

1495
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,400
I want. 
This is an outright tyranny. 

1496
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:56,400
I can do whatever I want. 
He treated the standard, very 

1497
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:00,640
long held aristocratic right to 
justice and trial and just threw

1498
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,520
it out the window. 
Trial by combat is an ancient 

1499
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,520
and respected form of justice. 
We all think it's a little 

1500
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:09,320
silly, but it's very 
entertaining for the setting. 

1501
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:14,480
And Aries just said it's a joke.
Ha ha, Fire's my champion. 

1502
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,560
Wasn't that hilarious? 
I mean, it was. 

1503
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,800
So he is treating it like a 
joke, right? 

1504
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:22,640
That's that's not right. 
That's not fair. 

1505
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,400
It's not. 
I mean, the gods, how are the 

1506
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,960
gods involved in this? 
This is the the whole purpose of

1507
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,600
the trial by 7 is to allow or a 
trial by combat is to allow the 

1508
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:39,120
seven to weigh in to judge. 
Fire is not part of the seven in

1509
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,960
that sense. 
The Smith works with fire a 

1510
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,040
little bit. 
You know the Crone, you know the

1511
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:46,720
Lantern, you know, but like 
that's not this is they're not 

1512
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:48,480
this isn't relore we're talking 
about here. 

1513
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:52,160
Even relore wouldn't operate 
like this and having his sword, 

1514
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:56,400
Brandon sword just out of reach.
I mean, this is, it's terrible. 

1515
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,240
It's like this is this is a 
mockery of his right to a trial 

1516
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,400
by comments like you can fight 
fire if you can reach your 

1517
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,400
sword, which is just out of 
reach. 

1518
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:10,680
And it's not just a miscarriage 
of justice, it is a literal 

1519
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,760
mockery of justice. 
Contrast to our favorite Aries 

1520
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:21,200
parallel, Searcy, who also has 
grand plans about building new 

1521
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,720
edifices similar to the ones 
Aries mentioned and then 

1522
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,000
forgetting about that later, who
also intends to make a mockery 

1523
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,280
of trial by combat by using an 
undead knight. 

1524
01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:35,920
But that's also not what the 
gods had in mind for trial by 

1525
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,280
combat, Fire and the undead. 
Come on, those aren't 

1526
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,880
representatives of the seven. 
What, 7 are these? 

1527
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:44,560
You're adding an eighth and a 
9th. 

1528
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,680
It seems like such an easy thing
for Aries to do for me, in his 

1529
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:50,920
mind, he's like, what's stopping
me? 

1530
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:53,160
I can do this. 
I can give the order. 

1531
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:56,280
They'll follow the order. 
They'll burn. 

1532
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:01,480
Hey, hey, it's but it's just a 
fine line or it's not even a 

1533
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:03,240
fine line. 
It's a very blatant, obvious 

1534
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,320
line that we don't see other 
King's Cross. 

1535
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:10,080
Like even even like Aegon the 
unworthy do stuff like this Meg 

1536
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:12,480
or the cruel. 
Even he didn't go this far. 

1537
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:14,800
He did. 
He was a little more, he'd be 

1538
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:18,240
creative or and he aimed so much
of his brutality against the 

1539
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:20,080
commoners who were, you know, 
they can't fight back. 

1540
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:24,120
So how shocking was this, right,
in terms of other people, in 

1541
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:29,560
terms of the the realm, in terms
of court and and council, things

1542
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:33,000
like that. 
As we had said before and as we 

1543
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:37,720
talked about in the Stormborn 
episode, Aries started to become

1544
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,400
sexually aroused by fire and by 
turning people by burning people

1545
01:20:41,480 --> 01:20:44,480
to death. 
But this, my champion, is fire 

1546
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:46,760
business is a new level of 
depravity, right? 

1547
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:52,240
He hadn't done that before. 
He used it as the final form, as

1548
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:53,840
a form of execution. 
This was. 

1549
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:56,840
It's part of the trial now, too.
It isn't just the form of 

1550
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,000
execution. 
It's like taking over, spreading

1551
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,960
like a fire does. 
The whole justice system is 

1552
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:06,720
becoming a roaring bonfire. 
Perhaps green roaring bonfire. 

1553
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:10,200
Now, technically, Airy said that
Fire is a champion of House 

1554
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:13,520
Targaryen. 
Not just him, but he's the only 

1555
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,600
one who did this. 
Well, maybe if some other 

1556
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,360
Targaryens would have done this.
I don't know. 

1557
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:22,200
All of them. 
So even on top of all that, the 

1558
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:26,280
mockery of justice and of the 
gods and of the rights of nobles

1559
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:30,800
and just general mockery, it's 
just really cruel, like 

1560
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:33,840
unreasonably cruel. 
Even for medieval execution, 

1561
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:38,080
it's cruel because most medieval
execution styles, maybe not 

1562
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:39,680
most, but a lot of them are 
really brutal. 

1563
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:43,240
They're really violently cruel, 
but they aren't psychologically 

1564
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:48,200
cruel with the whole like, your 
sons having to watch your son 

1565
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:53,240
die too, while he's also strang.
Like, yeah, like, that is not. 

1566
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:57,440
That's worse than some of the 
worst medieval punishments I've 

1567
01:21:57,440 --> 01:21:59,120
heard of. 
And medieval punishments are as 

1568
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:01,680
bad as it gets. 
Here comes the worst part. 

1569
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:05,360
Jamie's telling Catelyn what he 
saw. 

1570
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,840
Quote. 
When the fire was blazing, 

1571
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:12,760
Brandon was brought in. 
His hands were chained behind 

1572
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:17,560
his back, and around his neck 
was a wet leathern cord attached

1573
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:20,880
to a device the King had brought
from Tyroche. 

1574
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:25,320
His legs were left free though, 
and his long sword was set down 

1575
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:30,040
just beyond his reach. 
The pyromancers roasted Lord 

1576
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:35,080
Rickard slowly, banking and 
fanning that fire carefully to 

1577
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:39,920
get a nice even heat. 
His cloak caught 1st, and then 

1578
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:45,040
his Sir coat, and soon he wore 
nothing but metal and ashes. 

1579
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,680
Next he would start to cook, 
Aries promised, unless his son 

1580
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,240
could free him. 
Brandon tried, but the more he 

1581
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:58,000
struggled, the tighter the cord 
constricted around his throat. 

1582
01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:00,960
In the end, he strangled 
himself. 

1583
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:06,800
As for Lord Ricard, the steel of
his breastplate turned cherry 

1584
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:11,560
red before the end, and his gold
melted off his spurs and dripped

1585
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:15,760
down into the fire. 
I stood at the foot of the Iron 

1586
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:20,640
Throne in my white armor and 
white cloak, filling my head 

1587
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:26,480
with thoughts of Cersei after 
Gerald Hightower himself took me

1588
01:23:26,480 --> 01:23:31,520
aside and said to me, You swore 
a vow to guard the King, not to 

1589
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,040
judge him. 
That was the White Bull, loyal 

1590
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,480
to the end and a better man than
me. 

1591
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,520
All agree. 
Jamie doesn't mention it, but 

1592
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,400
there must have been dead 
silence from everyone except 

1593
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:49,040
Rickard, who couldn't help but 
be screaming and yelling, and 

1594
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,360
Brandon most likely yelling as 
well. 

1595
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:55,080
A lot at first, but gradually 
less as he became unable to 

1596
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,480
breathe. 
Everyone probably knew to be 

1597
01:23:57,480 --> 01:24:00,480
quiet or they would be tossed 
into this too, right? 

1598
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,320
Yeah, probably. 
Like don't interrupt Aries's 

1599
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,560
entertainment because apparently
he would have been laughing like

1600
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:08,880
the way he set it up. 
Like you'll be fine if you can, 

1601
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:10,480
unless your if your son can free
you. 

1602
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:13,160
Like, this sounds like he's 
just, like, cackling and 

1603
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,360
twirling his fingers and his 
giant. 

1604
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:16,840
He doesn't twirl his mustache 
because it's too big. 

1605
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,920
He twirls this giant massive 
beard with his fingernails all 

1606
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,560
in there. 
Yeah, it's hard to imagine. 

1607
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:23,320
Actually. 
That would be the loudest sound 

1608
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,360
eventually, once the Brandon and
Ricard were unable to make a 

1609
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:27,480
sound. 
You still have Aries just 

1610
01:24:27,480 --> 01:24:30,320
laughing like a madman. 
Literally. 

1611
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:33,960
That would make it way worse for
the witnesses. 

1612
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:37,000
It's already horrible enough as 
it is, but you have a guy who is

1613
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,600
sincerely enjoying himself 
watching this, like genuine 

1614
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,960
laughter at a horribly torturous
injustice. 

1615
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,840
It's. 
I hardly, can hardly imagine it.

1616
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:47,760
I'm not really going to try too 
hard to imagine it, actually. 

1617
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:50,960
Let's just use the words and 
kind of gloss over it. 

1618
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:53,480
Yeah. 
Now, Catelyn doesn't believe 

1619
01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:55,280
Jamie cared a wit for Ricard and
Brandon. 

1620
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:57,520
She's like, that doesn't. 
You can't tell me you cared 

1621
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:00,400
about the Starks there. 
It doesn't have anything to do 

1622
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:04,080
with you killing Aries and 
Jamie's like the Starks were 

1623
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,440
nothing to me. 
That's true, but it absolutely 

1624
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:13,800
led to him being the Kingslayer,
seeing what Aries was willing to

1625
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:16,600
do, seeing that the realm is 
built this way, seeing that 

1626
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,080
monarchy and duty, all, all the 
things that are part of Jamie's 

1627
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,080
arc. 
This is one of the Seminole 

1628
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,520
events that kicked him off 
towards that cynicism that is 

1629
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:32,400
now coming back around into sort
of redemptive type arc. 

1630
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:36,000
You know, redemptive thoughts, 
some redemptive action. 

1631
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,680
We'll see where it goes. 
But he's clearly a different 

1632
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:41,600
man. 
But coming back to the what he 

1633
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:45,160
was at this point, it 
absolutely, it ruined his 

1634
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,520
ideals. 
It, it, it the sense of purpose.

1635
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:52,240
So Catlin is sort of right that 
he didn't care about the Starks,

1636
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:56,120
but he cared about what Aries 
was doing. 

1637
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,400
He cared about the miscarriage 
of justice. 

1638
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:03,280
He cared about having to sit 
there and hear a man roast to 

1639
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:07,560
smell it, to all that the all 
the sensations of that that he 

1640
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,040
still to this day can't shake. 
He still thinks about it. 

1641
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:12,880
It could have been two other 
men. 

1642
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:14,240
It could have been two other 
nobles. 

1643
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:16,200
Yeah, it doesn't matter 
necessarily that it was Stark's,

1644
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:21,920
but it mattered to him that 
Aries would do this to someone. 

1645
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:27,520
And this really does come up 
again, he tells Tommen in a 

1646
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,480
fatherly moment to the boy who 
doesn't know that's his father. 

1647
01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:33,840
He says, sometimes you have to 
go away inside your head. 

1648
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,560
You have to learn to go 
elsewhere in in your mind. 

1649
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,920
And he he and Tommen says, yeah,
I've done that. 

1650
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,480
You know, I've done that when 
when Joffrey tormented me. 

1651
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,200
And Jamie thinks in his mind 
when he's saying this, he's 

1652
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:49,600
specifically thinking about 
Aries roasting Ricard. 

1653
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,440
When he's saying all this, he's 
like, that's the time I went 

1654
01:26:51,440 --> 01:26:53,560
away in my the, the the number 
one example that comes to mind 

1655
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:57,160
for him going away in his mind 
was Aries roasting Ricard. 

1656
01:26:57,440 --> 01:27:01,000
It's the worst thing he's had to
sit and watch now. 

1657
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:04,080
Yeah, like Catlin says, Jamie 
probably would have killed Aries

1658
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,360
anyway. 
Jamie probably would have killed

1659
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:11,280
Aries anyway without any of the 
burnings because of the 

1660
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:13,040
wildfire. 
The wildfire plot's enough. 

1661
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:15,720
That guy would have killed all 
of King's Landing, so that's 

1662
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,080
enough reason. 
He that would have been plenty. 

1663
01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:20,560
But he doesn't tell Catlin about
the wildfire, does he? 

1664
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:22,240
He doesn't bring that up. 
He doesn't mention that till 

1665
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,160
later. 
He doesn't tell he he doesn't 

1666
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:26,280
trust her with that information.
Or maybe he doesn't believe 

1667
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:28,280
she'll believe him. 
Or maybe he's just not ready to 

1668
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:29,880
say it. 
He says it to Brienne later, of 

1669
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:33,120
course. 
Now let's also remind ourselves 

1670
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,080
this is not the only time one of
the Kingsguards, senior 

1671
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,880
Kingsguard has to pull Jamie 
aside and say hey, you know, 

1672
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,200
don't judge the king. 
You know, in the Stormborn 

1673
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,120
episode we pointed out the thing
with Raela where Aries comes 

1674
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:50,240
after burning his hand. 
The king and forces himself on 

1675
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:53,400
his own wife and and then 
Jonathan Ordere is like, hey, 

1676
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:55,920
don't judge us the king, you 
know, like we aren't we supposed

1677
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,120
to protect her and he's like not
from him. 

1678
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:00,760
So the same thing here. 
Gerald's like Yep, don't judge 

1679
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:02,320
the king. 
You know he's burning people. 

1680
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:06,480
It's just don't think about it, 
you know. 

1681
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:11,360
So despite all that, though, 
Lord Rickard, definitely the 

1682
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:14,400
most famous and definitely the 
highest ranking of the people 

1683
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:19,680
that that Rick that Ares killed 
and certainly the first time 

1684
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,600
that it was a replacement for a 
trial. 

1685
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,120
So what's a Kingsguard supposed 
to do in a spot like this? 

1686
01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:28,800
Kingsguard is for life. 
You can't do anything. 

1687
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,800
The only thing that can change 
is the king changes. 

1688
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:33,280
And I don't mean his personality
changes. 

1689
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:35,120
I mean he dies. 
A new person becomes king. 

1690
01:28:35,480 --> 01:28:38,120
Aries had to die. 
That's a big part of why Jamie 

1691
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:41,240
killed him. 
It wasn't just the the wildfire.

1692
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:42,880
You can think about it that way.
What if there had been no 

1693
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:44,760
wildfire plot? 
Might Jamie have killed Aries 

1694
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:46,240
anyway? 
Or might Jamie have pushed for 

1695
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,640
him to be killed? 
My Jamie have told everything. 

1696
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:53,360
If Aries had been like put on 
trial, if they had some counsel,

1697
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,560
you know, they captured him 
alive, Jamie would have been the

1698
01:28:56,560 --> 01:29:00,120
number one witness to to point 
out all these crimes that Aries 

1699
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:01,400
did. 
I mean, there would have been 

1700
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:03,160
maybe a few other kings guard 
because not all of them would 

1701
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:04,920
have died. 
Maybe things have gone 

1702
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:09,520
differently, but Jamie would 
have been the most disillusioned

1703
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:12,880
because he would have been the 
freshest to have the most 

1704
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,400
recently had lost his ideals. 
So going through this 

1705
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:17,920
conversation with Kat is telling
because of some of the things 

1706
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,680
Jamie leaves out. 
Like and remember, he's drunk 

1707
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:25,040
during this. 
He only reveals it to Brienne, 

1708
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:27,360
someone who's another warrior, 
someone who actually beats him 

1709
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:29,520
in combat and after he loses his
hand. 

1710
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:31,720
So he's already starting to kind
of transform into somebody else.

1711
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:34,440
But he has more respect for 
Brienne than he has for Lady 

1712
01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:36,760
Callen, I think. 
And it's happening in the tubs 

1713
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:38,840
of Harrenhal. 
And you know, he's it's a 

1714
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,520
different state of mind for him.
And I'd come back to the 

1715
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:45,320
wildfire thing with Callen 
because he doesn't even admit it

1716
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:47,080
even then. 
And she's like, you didn't do 

1717
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:49,680
this for Brandon and Rickard. 
He's like, no, you're right, I 

1718
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:51,880
didn't. 
But he doesn't say why and he 

1719
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:53,440
doesn't push. 
He doesn't go well, I did do it 

1720
01:29:53,440 --> 01:29:55,760
because of This is why doesn't 
bring that up. 

1721
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:58,560
But Despite that, despite not 
bringing up the main reason, 

1722
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,480
despite not bringing up the 
wildfire, Jamie's confessions 

1723
01:30:01,480 --> 01:30:04,760
are significant here. 
His his information, his words, 

1724
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,280
what he revealed mattered enough
to allow Kat to go through with 

1725
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:14,760
her plan to set Jamie free and 
to trust him with Brienne to let

1726
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:18,280
her daughters go. 
Because whether or not she 

1727
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:21,440
believes his motivations, he 
killed the villain. 

1728
01:30:21,440 --> 01:30:25,280
He did kill Aries, even though 
that's something he's, you know,

1729
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:27,840
denigrated for something that is
considered a dishonor. 

1730
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:31,080
No one wants to say the quiet 
part out loud, except maybe him.

1731
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:32,840
That actually killing Aries was 
a good thing. 

1732
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:36,240
You know, it's like, it's to us,
it's like obvious, like, yeah, 

1733
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,520
that guy's terrible, but you 
know. 

1734
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:45,200
I made you a little art of Aries
with his. 

1735
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:50,640
Long ankles. 
Oh my God, he's a baddie. 

1736
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,800
Aries is a baddie. 
Yeah, there you. 

1737
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:54,120
Go. 
He's got those tattoos and 

1738
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:58,680
everything, so people are all 
like, you can't trust the 

1739
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:00,680
Kingslayer. 
Come on, Catelyn, what are you 

1740
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:01,680
doing? 
He's like, yeah, but the 

1741
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,800
Kingslaying part is kind of why 
I trust him. 

1742
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:12,000
He used his good judgement over 
his like, he he ascended, he 

1743
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:17,320
looked past his loyalty and his 
oaths to do the right thing. 

1744
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,320
And she doesn't even know about 
the wildfire. 

1745
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:23,840
So, yeah, she it was a bit more 
of a leap of faith, but still, 

1746
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:26,080
she was on that track. 
She's like, you know what? 

1747
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,160
This is this. 
I can trust this guy because of 

1748
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:31,960
what he did, even though it's 
the thing that, as he laments, 

1749
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:37,280
I'm, you know, I'm hated for my 
best act and and loved for my 

1750
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:40,920
worst things like that. 
But again, this isn't just 

1751
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:43,920
Ricard and Brandon. 
We got to wonder about the other

1752
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:47,080
ones, I said. 
Maybe they were killed first, 

1753
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:49,280
maybe they were killed second. 
Let's let's talk about them for 

1754
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:51,560
a minute here. 
The Lords and their fathers 

1755
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:55,000
quote. 
Ethan Glover was Brandon Squire,

1756
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:58,200
Catlin said he was the only one 
to survive. 

1757
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:03,600
The others were Jeffrey 
Mallister, Kyle Royce and Elbert

1758
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:06,440
Aaron John, Aaron's nephew and 
Aire. 

1759
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:11,440
It was queer how she still 
remembered the names after so 

1760
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:15,480
many years. 
Eris accused them of treason and

1761
01:32:15,480 --> 01:32:19,280
summoned their fathers to court 
to answer the charge, with the 

1762
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:22,840
sons as hostages. 
When they came, he had them 

1763
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:26,640
murdered without trial, fathers 
and sons both. 

1764
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:29,560
It's this comment that Jamie 
responds to. 

1765
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,840
Oh, they were trials of a sort, 
sarcastically. 

1766
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:36,240
So mock trials, you know, So 
technically there was a trial, 

1767
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:38,600
but it was basically no trial. 
So same difference really. 

1768
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,840
And when you say mock trial, I 
mean, we mean ultimately, you 

1769
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:45,160
know that the mockery was at 
peak here. 

1770
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,560
So we only hear of how Rickard 
and Brandon were killed. 

1771
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:49,960
We hear of the strangulation and
the burning. 

1772
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,120
But what happened with the other
guys? 

1773
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:54,240
Unlikely. 
They got off easy. 

1774
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:58,720
Maybe not the whole 
strangulation and slow roasting 

1775
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,000
thing. 
Which again, that really shows 

1776
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:05,400
me that Aries had it in for the 
Starks a little bit here. 

1777
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:07,280
Like he didn't necessarily treat
the others that way. 

1778
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:08,840
We don't hear them treated that 
way. 

1779
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:12,880
They probably were burned to 
death because he was so enamored

1780
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:17,240
of death by fire. 
But yeah, I do think it's 

1781
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:20,200
interesting that he, even though
it was, you know, and some 

1782
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,600
reason it makes sense that he 
would punish the highest ranking

1783
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:27,920
people the most. 
But still, I think he he had it 

1784
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:31,000
in for them a bit before all 
this because of reasons that 

1785
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:33,600
they might not have even been 
aware of, reasons we discussed 

1786
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:39,040
before visa vie what happened at
the Tournament of Harrenhal now.

1787
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:43,600
So not all of them had a father 
to even show up. 

1788
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,560
For example, Albert Aaron's 
father, right? 

1789
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:47,640
We mentioned him, that's John 
Aaron's nephew. 

1790
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:51,800
His father, Ronald was dead by 
the time Albert was born, like 

1791
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:55,040
it was almost posthumous. 
He was born a little bit before 

1792
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:57,000
his father died. 
So Albert never knew his father.

1793
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:01,040
John Aaron was kind of maybe a 
father figure to him, especially

1794
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,400
as his naming him as heir, you 
would think he would be a father

1795
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:06,000
figure to him. 
So again, I, yeah, I wonder 

1796
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:09,680
about when they were killed. 
But again, with Aries, you can't

1797
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:15,040
take too much for granted here. 
He could have been weirdly 

1798
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:18,000
creative in a gross way with the
other murders executions as 

1799
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,200
well. 
Now, why did Ethan Glover live, 

1800
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:21,920
though? 
This is a strange one. 

1801
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:25,040
This is something that a lot of 
people in the Song of Isis Fire 

1802
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:27,880
Phantom have been thinking about
for decades because this is 

1803
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:30,160
something that was revealed in A
Game of Thrones and we've never 

1804
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:32,920
gotten any follow up on it, at 
least yet. 

1805
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:39,040
Nina's guess is that it was a 
part of the mockery letting him 

1806
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:43,840
live as a way to say, OK, this 
one guy was innocent. 

1807
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:47,360
You know, all these others were 
killed, but let one off just to 

1808
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:51,000
just to show that it was a real 
trial. 

1809
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,840
You know, it makes the whole 
thing seem more legit if someone

1810
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:55,760
gets off. 
Cersei says the exact same 

1811
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:57,760
thing. 
It's another parallel to Cersei 

1812
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:00,200
with Kyburn, and she when she 
talks about how to do the trial 

1813
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:03,880
and how they're going to make 
Marjorie look guilty, they do 

1814
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,320
the same thing. 
Like, hey, let's accuse this 

1815
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:09,640
person and then let them off so 
that the whole thing looks a 

1816
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:11,720
little more legit. 
Because then it looks like, you 

1817
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:13,960
know, we try. 
We, we investigated, we found 

1818
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:15,600
some people guilty, some people 
innocent. 

1819
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:19,960
It's the same like it's like the
token innocent person to make 

1820
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:24,080
the whole thing look like it was
a real example of justice. 

1821
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:26,840
Now with Aries's madness, it 
could be something entirely 

1822
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:30,560
other mocking the request for 
trial by combat by leaving 

1823
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,520
someone alive afterwards, saying
none of this matters, letting 

1824
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:38,520
one live because that's what 
Barristan did with the Hollards.

1825
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,880
You know he's like I'll do the 
same thing here. 

1826
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:46,880
Or maybe the Glover father was 
still on route. 

1827
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:51,640
Eric's was waiting to for him to
show up before killing him and 

1828
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:53,760
then killing you. 
So Ethan Glover just got a 

1829
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,640
reprieve while his father was 
coming over. 

1830
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,320
But I probably not. 
He's his father was probably 

1831
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:01,720
killed as well. 
But there's more here. 

1832
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:04,320
Let's talk about the aftermath. 
This is our final section today.

1833
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:08,320
Even if Aries had stopped there 
and not killed anyone else 

1834
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:10,920
again, I think it was the 
turning point, the breaking 

1835
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:14,400
point, the tipping point had 
already passed, especially given

1836
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:16,320
how cruelly and unjustly it was 
done. 

1837
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:19,560
It wasn't just the killings, but
how they were done, the fact 

1838
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:21,480
that he laughed about it. 
And, yeah, just. 

1839
01:36:21,480 --> 01:36:24,360
That is just such a violation. 
It's hard to imagine war 

1840
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:27,040
wouldn't have come. 
But he didn't stop there. 

1841
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,200
He demanded that Ned and Robert 
be killed, too. 

1842
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:36,040
And John's like, you killed my 
heir and you want me to kill 

1843
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:38,040
them? 
Like, who do you think you are? 

1844
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:40,960
You know, I'm the mad king. 
No, I am John Aaron. 

1845
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,400
I rebel. 
I rebel against you. 

1846
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,400
It's almost like Aires was 
trying to repeat Dusk. 

1847
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:48,640
And I was like, yeah, I'm going 
to I that was fun killing 

1848
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:50,800
everyone in a house. 
I'm going to do that again a few

1849
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:55,400
times, you know, even with way 
less provocation this time, at 

1850
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,440
least from where a rational 
person would be sitting. 

1851
01:36:57,440 --> 01:37:02,520
But that's not Aries. 
So this is a much bigger 

1852
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:05,200
justification for the war. 
Again, I think that it's a 

1853
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:09,520
running theme pre Robert 
Rebellion, just pre Robert 

1854
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:13,120
Rebellion that that a bunch of 
nobles leverage their rank too 

1855
01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:15,520
much. 
With Aries, they think, OK, my 

1856
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:19,920
rank protects me here. 
And then they find out to areas 

1857
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:23,280
that matters very little. 
And he's also far more violent 

1858
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:25,800
than they realize. 
They assume they'll get slaps on

1859
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:27,920
the wrist. 
Instead, they get executions by 

1860
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:31,720
fire. 
It's a repeated miscalculation. 

1861
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:36,960
And I assume that they'll be 
more context to this someday 

1862
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:38,600
when we learn more about some of
these events. 

1863
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:42,840
So Robert's Rebellion certainly 
breaks out shortly after all 

1864
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:43,960
this. 
Of course, with the once the 

1865
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:47,240
demands are set, John Aaron says
no and war begins. 

1866
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,080
And then, you know, Robert has 
to make his way back to the 

1867
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:55,440
Stormlands, Ned has to get back 
to the North, Robert Rebellion 

1868
01:37:55,440 --> 01:37:56,560
follows. 
We don't have to go through any 

1869
01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:57,680
of that. 
That is a whole separate 

1870
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:00,640
subject. 
But it's very straightforward 

1871
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:04,240
why the war was such a clear 
answer for so many people, not 

1872
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:08,680
just Robert, Ned and John Aaron.
Because Aries absolutely 

1873
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:12,120
blatantly violated the feudal 
contracts like, well, that's 

1874
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:18,200
grounds for all the nobles to 
take the sides of the Starks and

1875
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:21,200
the Aaron's and the Brathians. 
And then of course the Tully's 

1876
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:24,320
along with because Ned went 
ahead and fulfilled that 

1877
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:26,720
marriage alliance by Mary 
Catlin. 

1878
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:31,440
So if he wasn't freed earlier, 
Ethan Glover was presumably 

1879
01:38:31,440 --> 01:38:35,200
found in this jail cells down 
below after Robert's victory. 

1880
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:37,200
Like a hey, look who we found 
down in the jail cells. 

1881
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:38,240
Ethan Glover. 
What? 

1882
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:41,360
Amazing you're still alive. 
We thought you were dead. 

1883
01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:43,560
What a new world for him to 
emerge into. 

1884
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:47,720
He gets out of jail, he's like, 
my side won. 

1885
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:49,960
I didn't even know. 
He might not have even known 

1886
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:51,120
there was a civil war. 
He might not have. 

1887
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:53,120
Like, I didn't even know we, we 
had a side. 

1888
01:38:53,120 --> 01:38:54,320
I didn't know there was a war 
going. 

1889
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:56,280
He might, he might have been 
told by the jailers or 

1890
01:38:56,280 --> 01:38:57,680
something. 
Maybe, you know, there's plenty 

1891
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:01,560
of time for something to happen 
and him to be told, but he 

1892
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:03,760
wouldn't get to enjoy this new 
world for very long. 

1893
01:39:04,440 --> 01:39:07,480
He may have witnessed Robert and
Ned quarreling over the bodies 

1894
01:39:07,480 --> 01:39:10,200
of Rhaegar and Ilya's children 
there and the split that 

1895
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:14,600
followed because Ethan went with
Ned after that split. 

1896
01:39:15,480 --> 01:39:19,440
So if he didn't witness that 
argument, he surely learned of 

1897
01:39:19,440 --> 01:39:22,600
it. 
He then accompanied Ned S the 

1898
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:27,760
newly made Lord Eddard and he, 
along with five other companions

1899
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:30,480
and three Kingsguard, died at 
the Tower of Joy. 

1900
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:35,120
That's right, Aries didn't allow
those men to face the Kingsguard

1901
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:39,320
into trial by combat, but Ethan 
and those other men faced three 

1902
01:39:39,320 --> 01:39:42,200
of them at the Tower of Joy 
instead, though he probably took

1903
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:44,400
on only one of them with help. 
It was probably like two and 

1904
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:47,880
three on one. 
But that still wasn't enough 

1905
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:51,640
because yeah, only Ned and Hal 
and Reed survived. 

1906
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:55,080
We don't know which of the three
obviously killed Ethan Glover 

1907
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,720
specifically, but it would have 
been Arthur Dayne Oswald went or

1908
01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:00,240
the very same Gerald Hightower 
who told Jamie that the 

1909
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:04,400
Kingsguard don't judge the king.
And in this case, and in their 

1910
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:07,000
minds, they were guarding a king
too. 

1911
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:10,120
Those 3 Kingsguard at the tower 
Joy were guarding their baby 

1912
01:40:10,120 --> 01:40:14,200
King John, who they wouldn't 
have called Jon Snow probably 

1913
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:16,000
but. 
We all know who we're talking 

1914
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,640
about. 
Eris's grandson again. 

1915
01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:21,600
Still weird to call him that. 
Ned would have been relieved 

1916
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:25,360
that the baby didn't look like a
Stark, but what of his mind that

1917
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:28,800
only time could tell. 
Could this child have inherited 

1918
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:34,000
his grandfather's madness? 
So Ethan followed 1 Stark into 

1919
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:36,640
certain death and made it out 
alive, but couldn't pull off the

1920
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:39,600
trick twice. 
So Ned carried a lot of his 

1921
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:41,880
weight around with him. 
He was party and witness to an 

1922
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:46,360
outsized amount of all this. 
Again, he would have felt the 

1923
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:49,400
tragedy of Ethan Glover, the 
tragedy of all of his other 

1924
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:55,440
companions who were caught up in
all this, all because of the 

1925
01:40:55,440 --> 01:41:00,320
abduction, the murders, Brandon 
running off rashly, Lord Ricard.

1926
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:02,360
I don't know if there's anything
he could have done about it. 

1927
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:06,160
But all these things that Ned 
had no control over, that he had

1928
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:10,000
to watch unfold and then live 
with afterwards, no wonder Ned's

1929
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:11,840
the way he was. 
It wasn't just about Lyanna. 

1930
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:14,480
It wasn't just about promise me.
There were so many other things 

1931
01:41:14,480 --> 01:41:17,480
here, so many burdens. 
He carries some, and you can so 

1932
01:41:17,480 --> 01:41:20,440
you can kind of understand why 
he didn't want to tell his 

1933
01:41:20,440 --> 01:41:22,360
children and his wife exactly 
what happened. 

1934
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:24,640
He didn't want to give them all 
the gory details because they 

1935
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:28,080
are rather gory. 
They're enough to make the realm

1936
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:30,440
turn on the king, among other 
reasons. 

1937
01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:33,320
But of course, Ned is now gone 
too. 

1938
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:36,360
And it's Jamie really the only 
one that we know for sure is 

1939
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:37,960
carrying a lot of this weight 
around with him. 

1940
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:39,400
And he's coming to terms with 
that. 

1941
01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:41,160
He didn't feel that burden 
earlier. 

1942
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:44,480
He treated it as a, a side part 
of him. 

1943
01:41:44,480 --> 01:41:49,280
He's just a cynical guy that 
lives with the world being 

1944
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,080
crappy. 
You know, he just, well, that's 

1945
01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:53,400
how the world is. 
You know, the world sucks now. 

1946
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:58,240
He's got a bit of a new sense of
purpose, bit of a new attitude, 

1947
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:03,680
a new life of sorts. 
And in a sense, he's the only 

1948
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:07,120
one that can recover from this 
because everyone else is dead. 

1949
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:11,360
So good luck to you, Jamie, and 
I hope we learn more about these

1950
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:13,480
things. 
Like so much of Robert 

1951
01:42:13,480 --> 01:42:15,120
Trebellion, there's missing 
pieces here, right? 

1952
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:18,040
There's a lot more we could 
learn, a lot more light that 

1953
01:42:18,040 --> 01:42:22,520
could be shined on, what Brandon
was thinking, what Aries did, 

1954
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:26,440
what other Kingsguard witnessed.
Again, maybe Barristan will have

1955
01:42:26,440 --> 01:42:30,200
some thoughts on this. 
We can't answer all the 

1956
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:33,120
questions we raised in this 
episode, but by raising the 

1957
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,720
questions we think are the most 
pertinent, we get ourselves a 

1958
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:38,680
little closer to knowing what we
need to know and our and a 

1959
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:41,200
little closer to the answers. 
And those are compelling. 

1960
01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:45,800
Just having the options, just 
knowing what might be is pretty 

1961
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:48,560
fun. 
And that's what we do here. 

1962
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:50,160
And that's the end of our 
episode. 

1963
01:42:50,440 --> 01:42:51,480
Here's a couple questions, 
though. 

1964
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:54,200
Dornish James says probably 
weird for John when you realize 

1965
01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:55,680
it's one of his grandfathers 
killed the other. 

1966
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:59,680
Yeah, that's a good point. 
It's like, yeah, my grandfather 

1967
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:01,120
killed my other grandfather. 
Dang it. 

1968
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:07,080
Whoops, yeah, don't do that. 
John's got some pretty big 

1969
01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:09,520
realizations to come, and I 
suppose Brand does too, if he 

1970
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,600
starts using the weirwood 
network to uncover some of these

1971
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:15,760
secrets. 
Trivia question Which of 

1972
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:18,560
Brandon's companions had already
lost his father before Aries? 

1973
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:21,080
Had all the rest killed? 
Albert, of course. 

1974
01:43:21,080 --> 01:43:24,840
Albert Aaron, whose father? 
Ronald died of a bad belly 

1975
01:43:24,840 --> 01:43:26,720
around the time Albert was born,
as we said. 

1976
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,000
Ronald, you said Ronald a little
bit. 

1977
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:31,560
Did I? 
Ronald Ronnell Ronald. 

1978
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:35,320
So of course Ronald had been 
heir before Albert, and then 

1979
01:43:35,320 --> 01:43:37,400
Ronald died and then Albert 
became heir. 

1980
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:40,320
And John Aaron, of course, 
eventually had Sweet Robin and 

1981
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:44,960
he became heir, but Sweet Robin 
was born more than a decade 

1982
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:46,400
after the events of this 
episode. 

1983
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:49,960
Some other episodes that relate 
to this one. 

1984
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:57,720
Stormborn, the abduction of 
Lyanna, then Education or N 

1985
01:43:57,720 --> 01:43:59,720
Education. 
We call that one The Battle of 

1986
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:02,360
the Trident, our Summer Hall 
series, which talks a lot about 

1987
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:06,120
how Aries became potentially 
obsessed by and traumatized by 

1988
01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:09,360
wildfire in the first place, in 
addition to many other mysteries

1989
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:10,800
around Summer Hall. 
It's certainly not just about 

1990
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:13,800
Aries, more about other 
characters really, but that's 

1991
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:15,200
where the overlap is for this 
one. 

1992
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:17,840
Also, we have an episode on the 
defiance of Duskindale. 

1993
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:20,880
That's a scripted 1, and it is a
lot about Barristan and Aries, 

1994
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:24,000
of course, and Tywin. 
And that's a really fun one too.

1995
01:44:25,160 --> 01:44:28,200
Thanks, everybody. 
Thanks, Nina, for the great 

1996
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,040
notes, the great takes, the 
great insight. 

1997
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:33,680
Thanks to Joey Townsend for our 
music. 

1998
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:37,000
Thanks to Michael Klarfeld for 
the maps and for appearing live 

1999
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,160
on this episode for cleaning 
them and for cleaning them. 

2000
01:44:39,160 --> 01:44:43,240
Yes, because we Americans don't 
know how to properly treat our 

2001
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:44,360
maps. 
We are. 

2002
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:47,560
We take them for granted. 
Good thing we got some help on 

2003
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:49,280
that. 
Our maps are clean now. 

2004
01:44:50,160 --> 01:44:53,200
Until next time, everybody. 
Valerie read us.