1 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:51,700 There are a lot of reasons to fight. 2 00:00:52,340 --> 00:00:56,460 Not so honorable reasons, like taking things or people by force 3 00:00:56,620 --> 00:01:00,940 for personal gain or pleasure. Honorable reasons, like stopping 4 00:01:00,940 --> 00:01:03,700 people from doing that. Like, you know, defending your 5 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:06,980 loved ones or your home or your friends, etcetera. 6 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,760 And even if you have wildly different values, like even if 7 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,640 you think fighting is often a good thing, actually it's 8 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,880 impossible to deny the destructive nature of it. 9 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,480 Perhaps the worst reason of all to fight someone, though, is 10 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,760 because your parents and their parents fought each other and 11 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,360 with no apparent end goal in mind, at least not one that 12 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,200 they've had enduring success at. That's why the Blackwoods and 13 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,600 Brackens do what they do, because they've always done it. 14 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,200 They think they have reasons, but from the outside, it kind of 15 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,480 sort of looks like they just keep on fighting each other 16 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,280 because it's what they've always done, like a tradition, because 17 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,360 they don't even seem to have a great grasp on how it all 18 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,560 started or why they're fighting, right? 19 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,680 So the whole point of it, A Song of Ice and Fire, is full of 20 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,440 cycles of violence, full past, full present, full in between. 21 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,520 But no feud perhaps emulates the pointlessness of revenge, of 22 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,720 mutually assured destruction of what might be otherwise decent 23 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,120 people at their worst, then Bracken and Blackwood. 24 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,400 What makes them keep doing it? How much have they harmed 25 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,480 themselves over the years? How much have they held each 26 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,360 other back and themselves back? And what are some of the 27 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,560 standout moments of this feud over the Eons? 28 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,720 How badly and how often has their feud spread, as war often 29 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,640 does to engulf other houses, if not entire kingdoms? 30 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,080 Well, we've got the answer to all that and more on this 31 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,520 episode of History of Westeros podcast. 32 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,840 I'm really working on my the little leading cast. 33 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,360 Yeah, one day I'll I'll be a master of that for all the good 34 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,000 it will do me and the rest of you. 35 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,440 Hello and welcome everybody. Another episode of History of 36 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,320 Westeros podcast is here. Most Sundays we live stream at 37 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,320 3:00 Eastern unless it's TV season. 38 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,360 Unless we'll be. That means we'll be streaming on 39 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,640 Mondays. Every video is on YouTube and 40 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,040 after editing, it's also on Spotify. 41 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,360 The audio only versions are available everywhere, but 42 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:14,040 they're ad free if you get them on patreonpatreon.com/history of 43 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,000 Westeros. Sean, how's it going today? 44 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,360 I see you got a Dunkin Egg shirt. 45 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,040 I got a Bitter Steel shirt. I feel like the, you know, the 46 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,720 Blackwoods are more popular in the fandom, so I wanted to give 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,320 the give the Brackens a little bit of a bump there. 48 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,920 You think the Blackwoods might be more popular than a fandom, 49 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,160 eh? I'm not in a limb with that. 50 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:32,720 Yeah, I'm really going on on a limb. 51 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,080 Hey, I like a limb of a Blackwood tree. 52 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,280 Am I doing that? Yes. 53 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,680 I'm not horsing around, you know when I say that. 54 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,440 My shirt is a a minor clue to the trivia question today. 55 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,360 Oh, very good, very good. And shout out to our good friend 56 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,160 Nina, Good queen allie.tumblr.com. 57 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,120 The latest blog post over there is something she loves to talk 58 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,320 about. Well, this one actually isn't a 59 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,640 question. This is just for musing. 60 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,520 Wondering about George and his use of Margaret of Anjou to 61 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,480 Henry the 6th of England as inspiration for Mariah Martel 62 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,720 and Daron the 2nd. Daron the Second's going to come 63 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,200 up today a little bit because we're talking about blackfyres 64 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,560 and stuff. But yeah, George certainly has 65 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:19,440 used a lot of the Henry's and English history and some French 66 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,240 history as inspirations. Of course, The Accursed Kings is 67 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:24,520 is French and English history combined, and that's one of his 68 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,840 favorite influences. And that's one of Nina's 69 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:28,720 favorite things to write about. So you're going to want to read 70 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,680 this one really good. She's excellent with the 71 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,760 parallels in this period or I just in general really, But this 72 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,520 is you know, one of the topics she knows the best, so check it 73 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,520 out. Good queenalley.tumblr.com 74 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,200 that's 1L in alley and if you have questions for us, well send 75 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,040 them to westeroshistory@gmail.com or put 76 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,960 them in the live stream. Chat and Ashaya will often float 77 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,640 them for us to discuss or answer and I will give you all some 78 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,560 suggestions for episodes to further your immersion after the 79 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,600 end of this one. Usually we focus on episodes 80 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,120 that relate to this one, and that is no different here. 81 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,000 Also, at the end of the episode will be the answer to this 82 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,680 trivia question. What village rests between the 83 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,880 grassy hills fought over by Bracken and Blackwood, known as 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,440 the teats? That means the hills are known 85 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,480 as the teats. What's the name of the village 86 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,720 that sits between the teats? It'll be crazy to have a whole 87 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,880 village between your teats. Wow, they're a large person. 88 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,840 If you can do that. It's like Bender, right? 89 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:27,040 Bender and Futurama. Maybe it's a small village, 90 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,160 yeah. We'll take an era based approach 91 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,960 today, looking at the interactions between the two 92 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,720 houses in detail, then as a whole, sort of like all over, 93 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,320 You know, like an overview, though they're conflicts of the 94 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,000 headline. We'll also look at the times 95 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,480 they've fought, if not together, or at least on the same side 96 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,080 'cause it's pretty notable when bitter enemies are on the same 97 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,840 side and we're looking at an awful lot of history here. 98 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,800 And of course, usually that's against some great common foe. 99 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,560 But in between those common foes, they've torn each other 100 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:02,080 apart so many times that they've often corrupted others around 101 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,800 them into taking up that war with them. 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:09,720 It's like a violence germ from Germ that makes those times they 103 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,680 fight on the same side all the more notable, right? 104 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,560 And it's it really primes us as readers when we see Bracket and 105 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,640 Blackwood often, almost always, whenever they're in a sentence, 106 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,000 they're next to each other. It immediately makes us think of 107 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,320 this feud. It's so famous, so long running, 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,840 and events are often framed by their feud. 109 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:31,440 Like, oh, Bracket and Blackwood agreed, Oh my goodness, that's a 110 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:32,760 big deal. Oh Bracket and Blackwood, of 111 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:33,880 course they're on the opposite side. 112 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,360 They have so many events throughout A Song of Ice and 113 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,200 Fire, and the history are framed through the Brack and Blackwood 114 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,000 feud, which I suspect some of you didn't realize. 115 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,640 It was quite this common in the story, but when you sit back and 116 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,480 realize how much you've heard about this feud, it might make 117 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,280 more sense and might start to register even more. 118 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,080 Now I remember a panel one time. I think it Ice and Firecon. 119 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:01,680 Lady Gwen from History, from My Radio, from Us talked about how 120 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,640 the lore within the world makes the world seem more believable. 121 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,880 That makes sense if characters in the world know stories, and 122 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,520 that makes us think of them as being more real people and 123 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,320 relate to them, just like we in the real world have stories Star 124 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,680 Wars or Declaration of Independence OR the Hatfields, 125 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,960 Mccoys or, you know, good. Example. 126 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,160 Yeah, I know our our friend Scott Alexander, the you know, 127 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,800 who's also a Facebook mod for a group, brought the Hatfields 128 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,000 Mccoys up this week to me as a long running feud. 129 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,280 That's a good one. Yeah, that's a nice famous one. 130 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,240 And you're right. Like people we've we've 131 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:36,880 discussed the Hatfields and Mccoys 'cause they're a real 132 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,560 world rivalry. And in world a lot of people 133 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,880 talk about the Blackwood Bracken rivalry, 'cause it's the most 134 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,760 famous rivalry in Westeros, probably. 135 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,480 And people that are nowhere near the Riverlands talk about. 136 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,120 It's like I think it's a matter of gossip and a matter it still 137 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,760 gets used as a point of reference. 138 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,720 Like, well, even the Blackens and Rackwoods would agree on 139 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,920 that, you know? Yeah. 140 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,960 And I I was going to say it becomes, it's, it's among many 141 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,760 literary devices that George uses. 142 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,560 It becomes when he can reference something that, as you said, 143 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,000 that like when they do agree, characters in the book and us in 144 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,720 the audience like, whoa, even they agree, you know, it has 145 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,440 more meaning. Yeah, it's it's it's their feud 146 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,440 gives emphasis by comparison to a lot of other things. 147 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,000 That's kind of what I was getting with the filtered 148 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,360 through their view. Yeah, it makes. 149 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,240 It's really interesting how George uses this 'cause they're 150 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,240 not just a great piece of world building, as you say. 151 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,640 As Lady Gwyn said, it's also a really powerful narrative 152 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,560 device. George uses them to convey 153 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,440 information really effectively, and we're going to have a lot of 154 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,559 examples of that. One thing we love to do on our 155 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,760 show, a recurring feature, one of our regular approaches is to 156 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,080 take a look at the first time something is mentioned. 157 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,200 We call it the first mention, of course, how simple of us, but 158 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,840 how effective? Here is the first mention of 159 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,960 Bracken and Blackwood Feud Catlin 5 The Game of Thrones. 160 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,600 The rain obscured the fields beyond the crossroads, but 161 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,840 Catlin saw the land clear enough in her memory. 162 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,360 The marketplace was just across the way, and the village a mile 163 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,520 farther on. Half 100 white cottages 164 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,240 surrounding a small stone scept. There would be more now. 165 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:11,760 The summer had been long and peaceful. 166 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,960 North of here. The King's Road ran along the 167 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,680 Green Fork of the Trident, through fertile valleys and 168 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:24,200 green Woodlands, past thriving towns and stout holdfasts and 169 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,880 the castles of the river Lords. Catlin knew them all, the 170 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,720 Blackwoods and the Brackens ever enemies whose quarrels her 171 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,000 father was obliged to settle. Yep. 172 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,320 And then of course the quote goes on to mention other 173 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,680 Riverlands houses and different like a one liner about each of 174 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:43,800 them. But here we go. 175 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,880 The first time they're mentioned, they're mentioned 176 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,360 together in the context of their feud. 177 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,240 They are introduced as enemies and neighbors under her father's 178 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,960 vassal or as her father's vassals. 179 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,920 And it's going to come up pretty big later in this episode 180 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,360 because we're going to go back in time to talk with history and 181 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,160 then finish with A Song of Ice and Fire. 182 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,280 Finish with book main book events, and you'll be surprised 183 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,840 at some of the times that Bracket and black would come up 184 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,040 as the backdrop to a greater event. 185 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,480 You'll also notice that whenever there's a list of houses or 186 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,960 Lords that include them both like a list of river Lords 187 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,200 Houses Bracket and Blackwood are all but like once or twice in 188 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,240 the entire series. I I look for this because you 189 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,000 know that's the kind of thing I do they're always next to each 190 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,680 other. Like there are a couple of 191 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,720 exceptions but very few it's and I think it's it's partly because 192 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,280 of alliteration you know Bracken, Blackwood, they're BRBL 193 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,920 you know BRA actually BLA like actually yeah like that's really 194 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,800 close the the 4th letter is AC in both words also like they 195 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,560 they they they they fit together 2. 196 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,200 Syllables. It flows off the tongue, yeah. 197 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:49,640 And they are geographically right next to each other also. 198 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,760 So they they will be lumped together for that reason, but 199 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:58,400 also because they're so tied to each other, anytime you would be 200 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,320 listing them, you need to be accounting for them. 201 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,200 Does that make sense? If you're listing your allies, 202 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,280 you have to name the two of them together, 'cause they might 203 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,960 cancel each other out, you know. Yeah, it's always a problem. 204 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,640 There's always a little extra baggage with them. 205 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,920 Yeah. Bracken Blackwood baggage, Yes. 206 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:17,840 Whether whether they're allies or obstacles or whatever it is, 207 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,200 they kind of are coming together. 208 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,120 Even if they aren't working together, you have to consider 209 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,560 them together. Let's use a modern social media 210 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:28,000 phrase to get us started a little further here, how it 211 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,400 started versus how it's going. This is a bit of an overview of 212 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,200 well, how it started versus how it's going for Bracken and 213 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,880 Blackwood quote. The feud of the Blackwoods and 214 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,920 Brackens is infamous, and rightly so, for it stretches 215 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,960 back thousands of years to before the coming of the Andals. 216 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,360 The origins of it are contested and shrouded in legend. 217 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,880 The Blackwoods say they were kings and the Brackens little 218 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,480 more than petty Lords said on betraying and deposing them, 219 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,360 while the Brackens say much the same about the Blackwoods. 220 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,560 That they were both royal houses on the Trident seems true 221 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:11,160 enough, and none can doubt their enmity sprang from some cause so 222 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,960 entrenched that it has become legendary. 223 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,200 Powerful as they were, they have maintained their feud despite 224 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,120 the many kings who have attempted to make a peace 225 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,960 between them. I like how that kind of throws a 226 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,960 little shade on them. It's like their enmity sprang 227 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,600 from some 'cause, like it had to come from somewhere. 228 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,560 It's not nothing, but they're still downplaying that it should 229 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:35,760 have any value. Now, thousands of years later, 230 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,960 whatever that cause was, there's no way it's so bad that y'all 231 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,320 still need to be fighting over it this far later, like many 232 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,080 royal houses have been overthrown by many vassals, and 233 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,880 none of them are still hating each other thousands of years 234 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,680 later. I mean, there's certainly 235 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:53,800 something flare ups here and there, but this is, this is 236 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,720 truly exceptional in that this not only is the cause not known, 237 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,960 there's nothing you can imagine that would make it right, Like 238 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,400 it wouldn't justify this, you know, for either of them so. 239 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,000 The thing that might make it justifiable is also the thing 240 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,440 that might have ended it. A Red Wedding type scenario, 241 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,080 right? Like if the Brackens had 242 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,400 slaughtered every man, woman and child, then there would be 243 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,680 reason for this, but there would no one be, no one left to have 244 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:21,680 the feud anymore. You know what I. 245 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:22,680 Mean. Exactly. 246 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:24,080 Yeah. It's like one of the things you 247 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,440 can do to end a feud is completely wipe out the enemy. 248 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,040 But neither house has ever been powerful enough to do that to 249 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,120 the other. There's a lot of, you know, 250 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,440 nation, real world nations that are kind of like that they'd 251 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,440 love to wipe each other out, but they can't, you know. 252 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,800 And some of these feuds go back thousands of years as well, or 253 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,320 maybe happen thousands of years and are not happening anymore, 254 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,560 but that that's not unrealistic. I wonder how much it's purely 255 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,000 they weren't powerful enough, if there could be some other 256 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,960 factor. If if as bad as the feud is, 257 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:58,400 maybe you know this 30 year old warrior who's upset because of 258 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,440 what their dad did to his uncle and he wants revenge and he goes 259 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,160 to kill the other 30 year old warrior. 260 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,960 But there's his wife and his two year old child in a room. 261 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,640 Is he that merciless to slaughter them too? 262 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,760 Or does he let them live? But then now that child grows up 263 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,440 having the same vendetta. You know what I mean? 264 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,960 Is it a lack of power or a lack of a positive thing? 265 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,840 Maybe a lack of? There's still some honor and 266 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,320 chivalry mixed into it even though they're bitter. 267 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,240 And that's a that's a really interesting concept that you 268 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,440 raise here, Sean, because very often we see Bracken due to 269 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:31,760 Blackwood or Blackwood due to Bracken. 270 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,560 What they pretty much wouldn't do to anyone else, Maybe not 271 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,960 goes to quite so far as to slaughter a 2 year old though 272 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,760 there are some examples of that even. 273 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,760 But it's it's the thing where it's like they would never do 274 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,440 this. It's like it's beyond their 275 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,600 normal boundaries of honor. Unless it's Bracken or Black. 276 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,280 Unless it's this, this bitter enemy from thousands of years 277 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,640 ago. And it there's also not quite as 278 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,560 much at stake. Like, you know, Tywin killed all 279 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,360 the Tart. Well, tried to kill all the 280 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,480 Targaryen children. Yeah, but that was for 281 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,000 ostensibly, right? The safety of the realm. 282 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,600 He's got to make sure this new king is in place and he's 283 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,600 aligned with them and the war is over and that if he lets 284 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,200 Targaryens get away, that that might be in jeopardy. 285 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,680 But this is just over. It might be harder to justify 286 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,760 when there's less to win. Like, you know, like maybe if 287 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,000 you thought you killed the last Bracken, you would get credit 288 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,880 from your house for ending the feud. 289 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,320 But this one two year old, they're not the last one. 290 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:25,440 They're still a bunch of cousins. 291 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,200 And, you know, I don't know how many times someone might have 292 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,680 gone through that and made what seemed like a good decision but 293 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,920 ended up continuing the feud. Like we'll see later in the 294 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,600 episode as well, it's impossible to kill everyone with Blackwood 295 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,240 blood without killing some brackens. 296 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Yeah, exactly. Or vice versa. 297 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,560 Like they've mixed so many times and they've mixed with other 298 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:46,920 houses that have mixed with them. 299 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,640 Yeah, the, the like the they're all so intermarried and so 300 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,600 connected. By now it's just, yeah, so they 301 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:54,880 both. What's interesting too is they 302 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,080 both disagree on what the initial cause was. 303 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,560 They both have a reason that that is their 'cause. 304 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,240 It's not a good reason. As we've said, 'cause. 305 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,280 There's so many other examples of houses that have done this 306 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,560 exact same thing to each other, yet they don't have lifelong 307 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,680 enmity. But the histories don't even 308 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,080 necessarily agree with either of their versions of events. 309 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,440 So it's like it's like they have a personalized version of 310 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:14,600 history. It's like, no, this is our 311 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,120 history. It's like, no, there's fact and 312 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,480 fiction and then our version, and we just go with that cause 313 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,840 'cause what we do. So as you said earlier, Sean, 314 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,680 proximity is a big deal. Proximity plays a role, as it 315 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,960 often does. It's hard to maintain a long 316 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,440 feud with someone that lives thousands of miles away. 317 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,680 But if they're your neighbor, it's a lot easier to understand. 318 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,320 You can argue over little things like, well, this fence is too 319 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,440 far on my side, like things that regular neighbors around the 320 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,240 world would argue about. Hopefully they don't turn to 321 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,400 violence, but we know that sometimes they do. 322 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,240 And if the story that the Blackwoods started in the north 323 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:54,200 is true, then the Starks forcing them S was a pretty crucial 324 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,560 beginning, cause clearly they would not have been neighbors to 325 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,600 the Brackens had that not happened in the 1st place, Nina 326 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,120 adds. And of course, the history of 327 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,720 the Riverlands as a geopolitical region encourages this sort of 328 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,880 conflict. The Riverlands has always been 329 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,960 war-torn, right? They've never had. 330 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,319 They don't have one house that has held power for a really long 331 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,599 time like the Starks have in the north, the Lannisters have in 332 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:17,720 the West, the Errands have in the in the Vale, the Storm, the 333 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:21,440 Durand and Slash Baratheons have in the Storm, etcetera, right, 334 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,359 There's there, There's a marked lack of stability in the 335 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,119 Riverlands as to the dominant royal house as compared to all 336 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,840 the other regions. Even the Iron Born have had more 337 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,480 stability there and they've they've had less than some of 338 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,080 the others, but they've had more stability at the top than than 339 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,520 even the Riverlands have. Of course, that's partly because 340 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,000 of the Ironborn and the and the Storm Lands, and some other 341 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,520 houses that have given the Riverlands a lack of stability 342 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,440 through invasions, but they've done a plenty good job of 343 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,360 fighting each other in between all that. 344 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,560 As you know, the Ironborn had their fair share of feuds and 345 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,360 have held themselves back with such. 346 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:54,400 You know so. Yeah. 347 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,680 So it's it's a little odd on some surface that that both 348 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,920 Bracket and Blackwood claim that they are the rightful kings 349 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,280 because they don't do that anymore, yet they're still mad 350 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,640 at the other house for undoing their Kingdom. 351 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,840 That probably rose and fell several times, right? 352 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,200 These flare ups often start over little things like imagine my 353 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,760 miniature example of like a neighbor arguing over where 354 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,280 offence is. You know that in the real world 355 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,160 that often just goes to like court or something like that, it 356 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,600 gets resolved by a third party doesn't usually fall to 357 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:24,880 violence. Maybe if you go back a couple 358 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,880 100 years it would more often result in violence and maybe 359 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,280 some of those times it resulted in long term violence. 360 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,320 Hatfields and Mccoys a good example. 361 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,160 I don't think their dispute started over a fence. 362 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:35,680 I don't remember what it started. 363 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,320 Over to you, Sean. For what it's worth it started 364 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,360 over. They, you know they they live on 365 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,200 opposite sides of a river in West Virginia and Kentucky. 366 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,960 And they both had family members that fought in the Civil War all 367 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,480 for the Confederates except one not what side he was on but did 368 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,600 fight for the North and we came back the other family killed 369 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,520 him. So that that's what initiated. 370 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,040 But that but even that might have subsided except you know 371 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,880 like the the the next the next you know incursion or whatever 372 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,440 was the a dispute over who owned a pig. 373 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,880 Oh my God. Which like a murderer which you 374 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,880 know had like talk about maybe that initial thing was sort of 375 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,880 justified but future things were not. 376 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,880 But it it had started, it was anything was going to cause it. 377 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,400 Now you know. They both had a long list of 378 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,000 prior grievances from built up from that initial conflict 379 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,040 spawned more conflicts and then then then the list was really 380 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,720 long and they may not they might not have even remembered how it 381 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,280 started like some of them individually historians may have 382 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,600 pieced it all together later. But yeah, so that's often how 383 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,560 some of these flare up came up and like they they maybe had a 384 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,120 big deal for the first one, like someone overthrowing the other 385 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,560 one from from their Kingdom, from losing their crown. 386 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,720 But from then on and mostly it's smaller things, you know just a 387 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,360 pig or the teats or something small like that. 388 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:59,440 Right Now what's funny about this is despite their proximity, 389 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,920 them being neighbors, it's we're not 100% sure about either the 390 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,720 location of Stonehedge or Raven Tree Hall. 391 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,280 We just know that they're next to each other and Raven Tree is 392 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,320 north of the Red Fork and Stonehedge is South of it. 393 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,080 But they've got sometimes the brackets of that land on the 394 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,560 other side and vice versa and and probably at times they both 395 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,920 held lands on other side of the Red Fork and we know that 396 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,760 because we've. There's been so many border 397 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,440 disputes that don't involve the river, right? 398 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,480 This land, this mill, they've argued over. 399 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,880 Well, if it was just a matter of one being on one side of the 400 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,800 river or the other, that would be pretty easy as well. 401 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,600 It's on our side of the river. How can you even, I mean, they'd 402 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,760 still find a way to fight over that, but it'd be really easy to 403 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,520 adjudicate from the, like the river river and be like, that's 404 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,680 on this side of the river. That's easy. 405 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,280 Clearly it's not that simple though, because these disputes 406 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,520 aren't about just north or South of the Red Fork. 407 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,960 Let's take a look at the map. You can see the surrounding area 408 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,720 gives you a general idea. You got river run a little bit 409 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,360 to the West there. These areas that we've seen 410 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,320 quite a bit in the books, they've been traversed by Jamie 411 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,560 and Arya and Brienne in and out, like some of these ranges. 412 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,040 And the BWB we have, we don't really see them, you know on on 413 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,800 page, but they're there. You can't always see, do you 414 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,920 know they're there. And so that's like some of these 415 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,400 areas we can't point to exactly where, but some of the ones 416 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,760 along the river, some of the ones that are close to the other 417 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,960 side, whichever perspective you're looking at it from, 418 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,120 whether Bracken or Blackwood side, they're like the they're 419 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:22,680 like the Disputed lands and Essos. 420 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,680 So Bracken and Blackwood have fought over these many times. 421 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,480 They're not constantly at war, but you know, they're they're 422 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:32,160 probably only a pig away from starting up a fight again over 423 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,880 just a mill or a a village or some hives, you know, some bee 424 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,000 by beehives. We even see Jamie and and Titus 425 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,280 Blackwood talking about that specific thing. 426 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,560 He's like, you got to give some land up. 427 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,200 And he was like, all right, I'll give this to that and that. 428 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,000 And he's like, give him the beehives. 429 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,040 It'll make his teeth rot. You know, it's like he's trying 430 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,160 to find some silver lining in this, you know, like anything to 431 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,320 get anything to get those brackens. 432 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,760 Like, yeah, I'll make their teeth rot. 433 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,120 That's it. Yeah, that's it. 434 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,400 Sure, Titus. That's going to happen. 435 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,240 Yeah. So there's several examples of 436 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,040 them fighting or taking that dispute to the king and trying 437 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,720 to get what you prefer them to do. 438 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,240 If you're going to have a dispute, like, yeah, get go to 439 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,840 an adjudicator. Don't just start drawing your 440 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,120 swords and killing each other, but quite often that is what 441 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:18,760 happened. You know, real quick, I want to 442 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,760 point out that the IT makes me a little more certain that George 443 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,120 had the Half Little Mccoys in mind when he made this feud 444 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:28,480 because they lived on opposite sides of the river called the 445 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,080 Tug Fork. Tug Fork. 446 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,640 Oh, it's the Red Fork. Oh, my goodness. 447 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,600 Yeah, that's really good. That is really good. 448 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,080 So yeah. So we'll see some examples 449 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,080 throughout the rest of the episode. 450 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,320 Of specific pieces of land. The Teats is probably the most 451 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,080 famous. It's been owned by both 452 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,920 Blackwood and Bracken countless times, and given back to the 453 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,080 other. Lost it, Owned it, Lost it. 454 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,920 It's like, who knows how many times these teats have passed 455 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,440 back? And why can't one have the left 456 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:53,520 teat and the other have the right? 457 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,000 Why can't they just share the teats? 458 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,600 Yeah, those teats really stick out. 459 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,720 So let's talk about the different versions. 460 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,080 Let's have a quote from each side. 461 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,680 This is Jamie being told this bit by Lord Jonas Bracken. 462 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,720 If I may offer you some counsel, though, it does not serve to be 463 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,360 too gentle with those Blackwoods. 464 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,760 Treachery runs in their blood. Before the Andals came to 465 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,200 Westeros, House Bracken ruled this river. 466 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,320 We were kings and the Blackwoods were our vassals, but they 467 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,720 betrayed us and usurped the crown. 468 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080 Every Blackwood is borne a turn cloak. 469 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,160 You would do well to remember that when you were making terms. 470 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,400 It sounds like what all of the lustrous things about bastards 471 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,160 like oh they're all treacherous they're all it's like it's 472 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,040 ridiculous that in that context and it's ridiculous here to 473 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,880 every Blackwood is born. That's insane, right? 474 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,040 Like, that doesn't make any sense. 475 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,840 And and who would believe that? Like Jamie's like, oh, you don't 476 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,080 say. OK, I will be careful. 477 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,680 I will treat them all as turn cloaks. 478 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,240 Thanks for the advice, Lord Jonos. 479 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:02,560 Like he doesn't realize how silly he sounds, you know. 480 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,240 But I mean, that kind of talk isn't that strange for Westeros? 481 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,160 But when you really put it under the microscope, it's like, it's 482 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,200 it's pretty ridiculous. But he's sincere. 483 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,040 He's utterly sincere. That's how entrenched in like 484 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,560 how much a part of their identity, this hatred for the 485 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,840 other side is. That's that's the word I want to 486 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,480 use is identity. I was going to bring that up 487 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,440 earlier. It's it's that even when 488 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,160 something about you is negative, when it is your identity, you 489 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,760 still live up to it and talk about it, maybe even brag about 490 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:31,960 it. You know, like I'm not good at 491 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,120 math. It's that's something that once 492 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,240 you feel that about yourself, whether it's even true or not, 493 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,800 you stick to it. You know it. 494 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,160 It maybe even justifies some of your actions. 495 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,240 You want to make sure people know about it so they know what 496 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,080 to expect from you. You don't. 497 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,560 You? Never decide. 498 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,240 I'm gonna get good at math now, right? 499 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,160 If you're right in again, I'm not good at math. 500 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,280 Don't expect me to do this. I'm gonna make sure everyone 501 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,640 knows I'm not gonna do math. You. 502 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,360 Know there are. Yeah, I mean that that's a theme 503 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,160 in A Song of Ice and Fire in several places, right. 504 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,520 Like like, you know, a woman's courtesy is there armor. 505 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,040 And Tyrion says, you know the world won't forget that you're a 506 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,360 bastard. So own it. 507 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:10,280 Or House Cod saying though men though all men may despise us 508 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,640 like, Yep, they all hate us, but that's who we are. 509 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,400 You know, we're gonna, we're gonna own it. 510 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,000 Yeah. That that comes up a lot. 511 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000 You're right. Good point, Sean. 512 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,360 So yeah. So he's utterly sincere. 513 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,560 He believes what he's saying. And these are these. 514 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,600 It's again, it comes back to these things that you wouldn't 515 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,760 do this to another person, but you might do it for your child. 516 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,120 This is a a theme in the real world. 517 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,520 It's a theme that George really amplifies a lot, I think where 518 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,160 people, people of honor, there's things they won't do for 519 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,360 themselves. They will break personal codes, 520 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:42,680 do do things they they think may might be look evil in another 521 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,120 context, but to them, since they're doing it for their 522 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,560 children, it's not evil. It's the reverse sort of thing 523 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,720 here. Like what a Bracken would do to 524 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,760 a Blackwood is, is not what they would do to somebody else. 525 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,800 At their view, they they don't see them as human. 526 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,240 They don't see them as the same species. 527 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,600 Almost. It's it's it's strange that way. 528 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,040 This is this is how hate corrupts your your brain. 529 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,440 And that's also part of the tragedy here is that that 530 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,280 identity that they have, like we hate the Brackens and we hate 531 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,600 the Blackwoods, They pass that on to their children. 532 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,080 Yeah, their children. What do you think? 533 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,920 That if their parents didn't tell them, yeah. 534 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,280 From a very early age, like blah blah blah blah blah honor blah 535 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,240 Except for those dirty blackwoods, you know? 536 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,640 And make sure their children also take on that identity. 537 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,080 Yeah, it's important for them. Yeah. 538 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,120 It's like, yeah, he's a good. He hates the Blackwoods like a 539 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:26,520 good little bracken, should you know or the other way around. 540 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,320 He's like, does he hate the how much does he hate to write? 541 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,680 A lot. They're like, OK, good. 542 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,120 You know, it's it's one thing if you don't think you're good at 543 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,320 math and forget about trying, but Can you imagine telling your 544 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,480 child you're not good at math 2? Years old with. 545 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,360 This in school because you're not good at it. 546 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,400 That's who we are. We are not, you know what I 547 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,000 mean? Like pass on to your child. 548 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,040 And this is arguably even more awful. 549 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,040 You know, Pass on the prejudice, you know. 550 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,640 Zach Remley sends a super chat, says history. 551 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,280 Westeros is the best podcast on earth. 552 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,640 Can't wait for Season 2 coverage. 553 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,600 Well, thank you Zach. We will try to live up to that 554 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,000 great praise. Yeah, we're trying to break into 555 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,680 the Mars market now. Yeah, that's a tough one. 556 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,160 There's not very many listeners there. 557 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,480 So thankfully Jamie is curious enough to delve deeper into this 558 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,040 Blackwood Bracken history, but not by asking Lord Jonas for 559 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,000 more. He's like, yeah, well, I don't 560 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,520 need you as a source. Let me ask someone who's got a 561 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,560 little more of a neutral view or at least a an opposing view. 562 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,080 Let me let us hear from a Blackwood, which is exactly what 563 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,480 happens. Here's a quote from that same 564 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,280 chapter. How did all this begin between 565 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,520 Blackwood and Bracken? Is it written down? 566 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,560 It is, my Lord, the boy said. But some of the histories were 567 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,960 penned by their maesters and some by ours, centuries after 568 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,400 the events that they purport to chronicle. 569 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,640 It goes back to the Age of Heroes. 570 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840 The Blackwoods were kings in those days. 571 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,600 The Brackens were petty Lords, renowned for breeding horses. 572 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,400 Rather than pay their king his just due, they used the gold 573 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,760 their horses brought them to hire swords and cast him down. 574 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:14,480 I want to point out this is a smart boy and maybe even gets 575 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,120 credit for being wise and courageous. 576 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,400 To to have this knowledge, to to have researched this out and 577 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,680 then to understand that there are differences in the histories 578 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,040 and then that could be meaningful. 579 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,360 And then to say it out loud, right? 580 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,640 Like what? They didn't know, but they're 581 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,080 like, say, point out, I don't know, but you know, maybe he's 582 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,720 just naive, you know, maybe he's just too young to realize that 583 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,400 he needs to. His family might not be happy 584 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,240 with this but but I want to give him some credit here. 585 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,120 I agree and and remember Jamie thinks like Tyrion would love 586 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,720 this kid. Like they would just talk about 587 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,040 history and all that and but he also but he definitely is naive 588 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,080 like Jamie notices like he's this kid thinks he's going on 589 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,000 some grand adventure here and he's also like should be wary of 590 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,680 the fact that that his father was like this is the one his 591 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,840 father chose to get rid of like he doesn't realize that like 592 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,400 he's like no I want to keep my daughter. 593 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,120 He was stricken. He was that was the actual 594 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,720 actual word when Jamie asked for his daughter. 595 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,840 He's like he looks stricken. He's like, well, Bethany, like, 596 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,920 do you, can we maybe, can you take someone else? 597 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,680 Maybe. You know, and that's often not 598 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,600 what you see, right? Like Lords often aren't. 599 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,000 They're willing to give up their daughters, like, in part because 600 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,760 that's what they expect to do in the long term anyway. 601 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,640 Like where I'm going to marry her to some other house anyway. 602 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,160 So. But they're also people and they 603 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,160 grow attached to their children, but some more than others in 604 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,800 some cases. So this story about one of them 605 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,240 being king, throwing the other down, or vice versa, they both 606 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,880 have these stories that seem to contradict each other, but they 607 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,280 don't actually have to contradict each other. 608 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,840 We're talking about a lot of history. 609 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,560 One could have ruled over the other for a time, only to lose 610 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,880 their crown to the other, only to regain it later, to lose it 611 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,320 again to to them or the other or in between. 612 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,320 Or they could have both been kings at the same time. 613 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,000 Like it could have been a king of Blackwood Vale and a king 614 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,000 over Stonehedge at the same time. 615 00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,640 And they could have warred against each other. 616 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,080 Like there could all these stories could be true. 617 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,840 None of them could be true. There's enough time that that 618 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,840 pass that enables so many possibilities. 619 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,840 And given that they don't even know which is true, I mean 620 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,960 that's where I fall down. Like I who knows which one is 621 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:12,880 1st. And that's, that's the point. 622 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,400 I don't think George isn't going to reveal that because that 623 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,600 would give one side more justification, maybe not much. 624 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,400 If he did reveal it, I bet I would want him to reveal it for 625 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,520 the brackets. I would want to know if everyone 626 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,080 were like, oh, maybe they're right, But The thing is, that 627 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:28,920 doesn't make them. Right. 628 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:29,960 It doesn't make them right because. 629 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,640 They didn't have it thousands of years ago. 630 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,480 Just say no. Even the statement, by the way, 631 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,200 in that quote when he says goes back to the Age of Heroes. 632 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,840 The Blackwoods were kings in those days. 633 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520 The Brackens petty Lords. Well, how long was the Age of 634 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,880 Heroes? That would be like. 635 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,760 Right. They they both could have been 636 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,400 kings or petty Lords in that. Like it would be like if you're 637 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,320 talking about the 17 and 1800s, you could say the United States 638 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,040 wasn't united in that era or you could stay in the United States 639 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,240 was united in that era. Those would both be true 640 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,040 statements, so. And it's also possible that I 641 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,400 mean we're also having every reason to believe that a lot of 642 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,400 this comes back to before the end all times like they were 643 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,680 both probably neighbors or well before the Andal's and that's 644 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,920 before there was any written history. 645 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,520 So they're admitting that this feud goes back to a time where 646 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,120 no one has records maybe Bran can look back in the like that's 647 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,760 what he wants to do. He's like I want to go find out 648 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,080 when this started let's that's I don't care about the others I 649 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,960 don't care about anything else. I want to know how this. 650 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,960 That's his ulterior motive to all this. 651 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,480 He could have already known by now. 652 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,080 He's like, no, I I look deep and I couldn't. 653 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,400 I need a more powerful green seer to look back farther. 654 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,520 It's not. I couldn't do it. 655 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,160 So yeah, the fog of history just allows so many possibilities, 656 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,920 allows for all these stories to be true, etcetera. 657 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,480 Yeah. And Nina's kind of says a 658 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,240 similar thing, Sean. Like probably the Brackens were 659 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,880 there first. That doesn't mean that their 660 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,120 story is right or that it justifies anything, like she 661 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,640 agrees with that. But given that the Blackwoods 662 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,640 probably started in the north, that argues that maybe the 663 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Brackens had gotten to the Riverlands first and the 664 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,040 Brackens, the Blackwoods, came later. 665 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,000 But even that is not a sure thing because probably know the 666 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,040 Blackwoods are 500 years older than the brackens as a house you 667 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,880 know or even longer or the other way around like the long night 668 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,320 right. They could have been allies 669 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,920 during the long night. This is a good example of well 670 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,200 even sometimes Bracken and Black would fight on the on the rights 671 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,720 on the same side and it's when there's an overwhelming common 672 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,240 threat that when that happens and that of course is way far 673 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,280 back and I've descriptive words like way with lots of whys cause 674 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,160 we have no idea how many actual years it's talking about. 675 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,160 It's even hard to guesstimate Jamie and Hoster Blackwood's 676 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,080 conversation continues a bit further, which helps set the 677 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,000 stage for more discussion quote. When did all this happen? 678 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:50,320 500 years before the Andals 1000 If the true history is to be 679 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,920 believed, only no one knows when the Andals crossed the Narrow 680 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,600 Sea. The true history says 4000 years 681 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,200 have passed since then, but some maesters claimed that it was 682 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,280 only two past a certain point. All the dates grow hazy and 683 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,600 confused, and the clarity of history becomes the fog of 684 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,240 legend. Well, that kid really is a 685 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,160 little historian, isn't he? Right. 686 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,040 Like him. So to frame this, basically to 687 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,040 summarize, no one knows. They literally don't know how it 688 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,160 started, but they do know how it's going because it's still 689 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,840 going and it's a lot of fighting and feuding and blood and it's 690 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,520 like what Tyrion said. We danced to the tune of those 691 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,560 who came before us. They inherited this grudge. 692 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,960 It's passed down to them, but they don't question it seemingly 693 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,720 or or much at all. You know, maybe maybe someone 694 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,880 like Coster Blackwood does, but he's an academic. 695 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,360 He's not going to be the one to get out there and force them to 696 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:47,680 stop, which might be what it takes. 697 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,360 You might need someone stronger to to keep them in line, which 698 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,560 is the only time it's ever stopped them with someone more 699 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,400 powerful and like look at Stark and Bolton. 700 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,400 Like there's the enmity between Stark and Bolton. 701 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,400 Isn't this great? You know, there is some enmity 702 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,440 and it's particularly strong right now given recent events, 703 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,600 but it had died down for hundreds of years, right? 704 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,520 I don't think Black with Bracken ever took that long of a break. 705 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,679 Maybe Dorne and the Marcher Lords had the longest running 706 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,600 similar few. That isn't one house, but 707 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,560 there's certain border pairings like the Stone Way, the the 708 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,440 Fowlers and the Tarly's, you know, are opposite ends of that 709 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,440 of the of the stone way. So maybe that or the Prince pass 710 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,880 rather so maybe that's it, I don't know. 711 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,040 But it's hard to come up with examples that are even close to 712 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,560 Black and Blackwood as far as rivalries and there's healthy 713 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,560 debate rooted in the timeline there, so we can't be too sure 714 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,360 of much of anything. But however long the timeline 715 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,159 truly is, whether it's 2000 years, 4000 years, 8000 years, 716 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:46,920 the brackets have been at it that whole time. 717 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,159 However long it is, that's that they fit that to there. 718 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,600 So the the sheer longevity of the feud is is special in 719 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,400 itself. Let's let's jump forward to the 720 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,160 Age of Heroes and talk a bit about how things progressed from 721 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,280 there. Quote. 722 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,880 Stretching from the Neck to the banks of the Blackwater and east 723 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,760 to the borders of Vale, the River Lands are the beating 724 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,800 heart of Westeros. No other land in the Seven 725 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:20,120 Kingdoms has seen so many battles, nor so many petty kings 726 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,160 and royal houses rising and falling. 727 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:27,200 With a quote like that, it becomes even more ridiculous to 728 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,120 see the Brack and Blackwood dispute. 729 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,000 Like so many other people have fought and killed and died and 730 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,600 usurped and overthrown and betrayed, but they really are 731 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,320 focused on each other. It's like no one, ever, no one 732 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,080 ever harmed us as badly as they did all those thousands of years 733 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,560 ago in ways we can't describe. And and as we see like this 734 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,760 pattern is still continuing. Rob's new Kingdom during the 735 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,000 events of A Song of Ice and Fire happened and that's and fell. 736 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,360 Or is still kind of maybe not completely fallen, but arguably 737 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,160 has fallen. We'll see. 738 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,320 Either way. It's an example of what you're 739 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,480 saying here. No other land in the Seven 740 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,920 Kingdoms has seen so many battles, nor so many petty kings 741 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,320 and royal houses rising and falling. 742 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,960 So yeah, we, we see it literally during the events of A Song of 743 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,800 Ice and Fire, but it's likely at its worst the farther back we 744 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,840 go. When there were smaller 745 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,080 kingdoms, you know, there was more fighting, there were fewer 746 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,760 border or more borders, more disputes, etcetera. 747 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,040 And that's probably when whatever transpired between 748 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,320 Bracket and Blackwood really, truly started and got 749 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,960 established. So during this very foggy time 750 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,480 of history that we know very little about, we'll just say 751 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,040 there was a long night. Bracken and Blackwood most 752 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,320 likely fought on the same side, perhaps for the first time ever 753 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,800 maybe. And Fast forward many years 754 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,720 later when there was another common foe and a whole new 755 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,600 historical era, the Andal Kings. Now the Andal's, of course 756 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,520 didn't come out once. It wasn't just one giant 757 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,960 invasion of Andal's. It was a waves of migrations and 758 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,600 expeditions and comings and goings and risings and fallings. 759 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,240 1 Battle in particular, though, stands out for our purposes with 760 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:13,760 this episode. The Great Battle of Bitter 761 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,240 River, where the Brackens of Stonehedge and the Blackwoods of 762 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:23,520 Raven Tree Hall made common cause against the invaders, only 763 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:30,120 to be shattered by the charge of 777 and all nights and seven 764 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,480 septons bearing the seven pointed star are of the faith 765 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,240 upon their Shields. Yeah, the end alls for the most 766 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:41,320 part didn't replace existing houses, right? 767 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,200 They suborned existing power structures like, well, let's 768 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,320 know why create a new house when I could just become the new Lord 769 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,800 Blackwood or new Lord Bracken which has power in this realm. 770 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,560 People will respect that name already that comes along with 771 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,080 the feud, but still it has other baggage with it. 772 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,160 But for the most part, it's better than starting fresh for 773 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,240 the most part. So this provided a new wedge for 774 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,200 the two houses. Well, because yes, they stood 775 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,520 together in this battle, but as things played out afterwards, it 776 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,840 created a new reason for them to have a dispute. 777 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,000 It may have really refreshed their their rivalry, because 778 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,560 most houses in the Riverlands took the Seven, including the 779 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,840 Brackens, but the Black Witch did not. 780 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,840 So now they're also different religions. 781 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,240 So that's that's always a recipe, not always often a 782 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,400 recipe for disputes. And it's certainly something can 783 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,120 inflamed an existing 2 religions can get along. 784 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,560 But when two people already hate each other and they have 785 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,840 different religions, when they used to have the same one, well, 786 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,320 that's. I think most people would bet on 787 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,320 things getting worse. And indeed they did. 788 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,040 You got to wonder what cause and effect here is too. 789 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,440 Did they choose different religions and so the rivalry got 790 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,720 greater, or because the rivalry was so great, they chose 791 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,160 different religions? You're going to join? 792 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,200 I'm not going to be in that group if they are, you know, 793 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,160 like. We we see that so often that if 794 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,320 one of them does something, the other won't, just on general 795 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,280 principle, if they're doing it, we're not, or if they aren't 796 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,840 doing it, we will. So absolutely the Blackwood 797 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,840 stubbornness might be a combination of piety and 798 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,360 conservatism or just do tradition or whatever, but it 799 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,640 might be yeah, we're not switching if the Brackens are, 800 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,320 you know, or or the other way around. 801 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,200 And certainly the you can see why it would inflamed things 802 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:29,040 further because well, the Old Gods isn't dogmatic. 803 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,440 You know they're not really out there trying to win converts. 804 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,360 They're not. They're not out. 805 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,440 That's not really how it works. They don't even have priests, 806 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,000 right. People either choose to worship 807 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,880 it or they don't. And the reason it started is 808 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,880 because there was proof of it being real thousands of years 809 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,160 ago and but the Seven is more like a a real world religion 810 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,200 where there's people are trying to convert people to it. 811 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,200 You know there it's it's it's a problem if you don't follow our 812 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,800 religion. So there was definitely burning 813 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,000 of heart trees and during this era and destruction of of other 814 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,640 things were associated with the old gods and worship of the of 815 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,840 that. So that would certainly cause 816 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,680 lots of problems for Blackwoods who were trying to not let that 817 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,440 happen versus brackens who are maybe at the forefront of that 818 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,040 because it enables them to target the Blackwoods and and. 819 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,800 Maybe they're allies. So definitely a tip of the 820 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,000 spear. The kind of thing that starts 821 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,160 more fights. For example, Jonas Bracken or 822 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:28,440 sorry, Titus Blackwood tells Jamie that the Raven tree, heart 823 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,520 tree was killed by the rackets. He says they poisoned it, quote 824 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,080 1000 years ago, the the generic 1000 years ago. 825 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,560 And he blamed. Yeah, he blames the brackets, 826 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,160 but I wouldn't be surprised if they did not do that. 827 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,920 If it just died for some other reason, someone else poisoned it 828 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,040 or. But also wouldn't be surprised 829 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,520 if they did. It's like, yeah, yeah, they very 830 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,280 well might have, you know, So yeah, so this is like, yeah, you 831 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,320 can't really use, like, motivation as a guide here. 832 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,760 So it's like, yeah, his motivation is to, yeah, their 833 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,240 motivation is to destroy Blackwoods, but their motivation 834 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,800 is to blame brackens, you know? So it goes both ways. 835 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,400 That generic thousand years too, That could be 700 years or 2000 836 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,120 years. But it's so long ago you can't 837 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,280 prove me wrong. You know what I mean? 838 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,560 Yeah. That's true. 839 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,440 A lot of those like appeal to it's not appeal to authority, 840 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:26,480 it's appeal to ancient tism. Appeal to the fog of history. 841 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,520 Our identity, it's been that way 1000 years. 842 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,400 That's what we believe. It's not going to change. 843 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,400 Who are you to question it? It's been this way this long. 844 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,560 You're going to question your father's and their fathers and 845 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,720 they're like, no, that that's yeah he's the the reverence for 846 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,440 their elders, their long dead elders. 847 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,800 Is is plays a role in upholding these traditions. 848 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,360 I think too, almost as if to show us what Bracket and 849 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,120 Blackwood are capable of if they work together. 850 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,800 In addition to that case where they lost to the Andal's, 851 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,000 there's sometimes where it actually went better. 852 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,040 Hoster Blackwood tells us the two houses intermarried many 853 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,840 times to forge a peace. But we know nothing of the 854 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,080 success or lack thereof or any of these marriages. 855 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,240 We well, that's not true. Not nothing. 856 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:07,240 We have a few examples and here's one of them. 857 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,720 This next one is well, there was at least attraction if not love 858 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,400 between Bracken and Blackwood. Quote. 859 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,800 The first of the Andal kings to bring all the river lands under 860 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:23,080 his sway was a bastard, born of a tryst between two ancient 861 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,080 enemies, Blackwoods and the Brackens. 862 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,760 As a boy he was Benedict Rivers despised by all, but he grew to 863 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:38,240 be the greatest warrior of his age, SER Benedict the Bold. 864 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,240 His prowess in battle won him the support of both his mother's 865 00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:48,400 house and his father's, and soon other river Lords bent their 866 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,280 knees to him as well. There's nothing like being a 867 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,320 total badass as a means to dominate a culture that loves 868 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,400 total badass. It's like they respect it. 869 00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,840 And there's the actual I'll Kill you if you don't Obey Me aspect 870 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,200 to it That is always sort of looming like Egg on the 871 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,760 Conqueror. Like, don't forget I have 872 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,520 Valerian. This guy obviously has nothing 873 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,000 like a Valerian, but being the greatest warrior of your age 874 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,360 carries a lot of weight just before you even get on the 875 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,920 battlefield. People are already afraid of you 876 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,680 when you have things like that going, and that makes them more 877 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,160 likely to just sign up to be on your side. 878 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,280 Like I'd rather be on the side of the bad, baddest warrior than 879 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,840 be against him. You know, sometimes, sometimes 880 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,360 you want to be the guy that beats the baddest warrior, but 881 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,160 it's a huge deal here that the two houses seem to work together 882 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,280 to subjugate the Riverlands for the man who descended from both 883 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,200 houses. This is. 884 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,320 We don't have another example like this of Bracken and 885 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,160 Blackwood being combined in one person that was so effective. 886 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,760 It might be an exception to the claim that yes, they sometimes 887 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,080 work together to fight a common foe. 888 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,800 But not just them, they are. They join coalitions that 889 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,400 involve other river Lords and all that. 890 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,840 They never was like just Bracket and Blackwood, just the two of 891 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,160 them together. That's unheard of. 892 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,320 Except maybe this, Except maybe here, Maybe Benedict the Bold is 893 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,920 the only example of Otherwise. I like to think that he had a 894 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,080 sigil that had both houses kind of reflected like a quartering 895 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,880 of both. But eventually he took his own 896 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,720 name because he became so famous and founded a dynasty which is 897 00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:18,120 house just men, and they had scales as their sigil. 898 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,120 So there's no remnant of either Bracken or Blackwood in that 899 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,400 sigil. Scales like dragon scales. 900 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:25,960 No justice, the scales of justice. 901 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:26,880 Oh, gotcha. Like. 902 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,120 Just men. Yeah, he's house. 903 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,000 Just men. Yeah, I'm just man like Saul 904 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,000 Goodman Child Benedict. Just man, Yeah. 905 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:39,840 Exactly, and this is the maybe the closest it ever gets to 906 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,000 being a powerful functional United States before the 907 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,920 Conquest. The petty divisions though is 908 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,920 what kept that from happening. Heavily implied, if not stated 909 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,840 outright that the reason the Riverlands never had one house 910 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,480 at the top that could hang, that could hang and and keep 911 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,960 stability for so long, directly related to these feuds between 912 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,720 them and with of of which Bracken Blackwood is the biggest 913 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:07,920 by far. So yes, every time they go to 914 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,040 war it often engulfs the other houses around them because they 915 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,160 have allies and then those allies have to go to war and 916 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,600 then they've all just wrecked each other and progress blah 917 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,520 blah blah. After about 300 years, though, 918 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,760 the Kingdom of the Justin's fell apart. 919 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,160 The dynasty collapsed, and here's what happened Next quote. 920 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,160 Another period of anarchy and bloodshed followed. 921 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,160 The realm that Benedict the Bold had knitted together was torn 922 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:37,080 asunder once again, and 100 years of conflict saw petty 923 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:43,320 kings from the Houses Blackwood, Bracken, Vance, Mallister and 924 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:48,240 Charlton contending with one another for supremacy. 925 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,120 That was the Ironborn that tore it apart, right? 926 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,720 That's what that was, A. No, that's about to be. 927 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:54,960 It's going to be. They come next. 928 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,520 Was there not some certain onus that made it Justman's reign? 929 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,200 No, it just there. Yeah, there was a there was a 930 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,720 collapse, but it's not really. It's not related to Bracken 931 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:07,520 Blackwood. But yeah, the Ironborn invasion 932 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:13,280 comes a bit later, so they unlikely or not unlikely, rather 933 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,760 that both of them held crowns again during this short anarchy 934 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:23,600 period and then they would have lived his vassals under someone 935 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,920 else, or maybe back and forth. Very chaotic and there's not a 936 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,680 lot of, not a lot of tracking of this period. 937 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,640 When you say Hill crowns again, they both would have claimed to 938 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,840 be kings again of smaller lands most likely right? 939 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,520 So because that's something I was wondering about is under his 940 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,520 rule Did did they they would have maintained their own houses 941 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,360 and had their own sigils and their own marriages and 942 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,680 everything like Justin became a whole new house. 943 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,920 It kind of just came and went right And Blackwood just gives 944 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,040 this existed simultaneously, continuously alongside of that 945 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,800 and then that went away and they were just back to where they 946 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,800 were before. Like usually you have something 947 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,000 like a cadet branch forms out of a former house, but in this case 948 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,920 it's like a cadet branch from 2 houses. 949 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,160 Like it's it's equally. You could say it was equally. 950 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,840 Formed. Yeah, yeah, a lot like that. 951 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,920 So because usually a bastard is is only a lot of times they're 952 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,720 only noble on one side or they just go with their father's side 953 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:18,760 or something like that. But this because of the unique 954 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,240 situation here, because Bracken and Blackwood are both so 955 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:23,360 powerful. And I mean, honestly, it sounds 956 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:24,960 like a bit of a Romeo and Juliet thing, doesn't it? 957 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,200 Like this tryst between a black and a Blackwood? 958 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,720 Like it doesn't even say which was the mother and which was the 959 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,240 father, Because maybe that's not important. 960 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:38,360 It's not really that important, but it might add some detail. 961 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,840 If we knew you know which side did which, but probably not, 962 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,520 wouldn't change the things very much at all, he might favor one 963 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,360 over the other because you know, people usually favor your 964 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,480 father's house just in Westeros because it's a patriarchal. 965 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:49,400 But there's no indication of that here. 966 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,560 Probably because he needed to keep that balance. 967 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,920 You know, Brack, if he favors Bracken, the black ones will get 968 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,280 pissed. If he favors Black and he's part 969 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,840 of managing his vassals is keeping them from fighting each 970 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,160 other. As so many other overlords of 971 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,640 the Riverlands had to deal with these two houses fighting each 972 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,920 other, he was uniquely positioned to hold them together 973 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,160 because he would came from both of their houses, which is that 974 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,640 made it harder to argue favoritism and things like that. 975 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,080 Plus he was also just a really strong guy and they didn't want 976 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,680 to mess with him. So all the all those ingredients 977 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,880 really lined up well. Another sort of follow up 978 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,280 question. I did a little research but 979 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:21,640 couldn't find anything too definitive. 980 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:26,200 It seems weird to me that this house got to such supremacy and 981 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,200 it just completely disappeared. I got no lost cousin or 982 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,960 anything. There's one guy in Lucifer came 983 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,400 about and made a claim, right? But is there anything beyond 984 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,040 that? No, they they they basically 985 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,080 died out like there's a lot of Riverlands houses that went that 986 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,280 way like house mud and House Fisher and some others that you 987 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,480 don't see those type of extinctions as often in the 988 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,360 other regions for the very same reason the Riverlands are so 989 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,040 war-torn. They that lack of stability is 990 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,720 why you see royal house go extinct whereas in other places 991 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:57,400 it wouldn't necessarily or where they are ceased to be royal 992 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,760 houses or where there's so much changing at the top. 993 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,280 So yeah, I cannot imagine you know this is when this is also 994 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,560 the era of sigils and and banners and and all that and and 995 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,240 house words, house mottos because the first men didn't do 996 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,720 that. So when the Tully's came up with 997 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:17,800 family duty honor I believe the Brackins and Bracken and 998 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,880 Blackwoods were like, OK that's pretty good, but let's do it a 999 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,000 little differently. Let's go. 1000 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,240 The family to kill is the Blackwoods. 1001 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:24,480 I have a duty to kill Blackwoods. 1002 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,480 It is honorable to kill Blackwoods and the Blackwood 1003 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,640 house. Words would be kill brackens, 1004 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,840 family duty honor in that order. Yeah they both would have A and 1005 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,080 we actually don't know the words for either house so it's we can 1006 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,760 play with that all we want. The Riverlands lost their self 1007 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,200 rule after that period of anarchy too because the 1008 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,360 Stormlands eventually took the Riverlands and it was after the 1009 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,080 Brackens and Blackwoods actually fought together again against 1010 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,800 House Teague. The Teague's were the final 1011 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:58,360 Riverlands bred dynasty to rule the Riverlands and but they were 1012 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,840 very zealous with their religion to the point that even the 1013 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,760 Brackens thought they'd gone too far gone too far. 1014 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,920 So the Blackwoods rose against them because they're like hey we 1015 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,160 worship the the old gods so your your zealotry is a particular 1016 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,280 problem for us but rather than the Brackens saying we worship 1017 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,560 to seven perfect opportunity to attack the Blackwoods, they 1018 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,960 actually joined the Blackwood. So this is a very rare case and 1019 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,080 now other Riverland houses did too. 1020 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,360 So it's it's not a case of just being Blackwood and Bracken. 1021 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,120 There were a lot of like the vances and some other houses 1022 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,520 joined in but they were going to lose. 1023 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,080 This coalition of rebels was going to lose to the Teague 1024 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,560 until the Blackwoods brought their in laws. 1025 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,440 The the Durandons in almost called them the Baratheons. 1026 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,160 But we're well before that era. The Durandons come in, beat the 1027 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,680 Teags and then they were going to hand the Riverlands over to 1028 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,200 the Blackwoods. But the Blackwood who was going 1029 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:49,960 to receive the crown died during the war. 1030 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,320 And they're like, well, we could hand it to like his daughter or 1031 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:53,720 sister. We're not sure who she was. 1032 00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:56,040 It was Cher Blackwood. And they're like, Nah, let's not 1033 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,680 do that. Let's just keep it. 1034 00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,880 So the Storm Kings just. Yeah. 1035 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:05,360 So they held it and then and they held it for a while, 300 1036 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,280 years. You got to believe that the the 1037 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,000 Storm Landers were like every few years, every 10 years, 20 1038 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,200 years. Like God, those brackens and 1039 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,800 Blackwoods are at it again. Like, This is why no one wants 1040 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,000 to rule this region. These two people make these two 1041 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,640 houses, make it just not worth it. 1042 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,520 It's such a hassle, you know. And I don't know if they like 1043 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,160 the Stormlander, who knows how they ruled it. 1044 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,440 Did they encourage them to fight each other? 1045 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,520 Because the next group of overlords, the Ironborn, will 1046 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,520 encourage that. They're like, you go ahead, go 1047 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:32,520 right ahead and fight each other. 1048 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,640 But I suspect they were a little unusual in that I suspect that 1049 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,600 most rulers want their vassals not so united, that they're a 1050 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,400 danger of gathering together and overthrowing you, but not so at 1051 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,000 war, that they're not so hating each other that they're fighting 1052 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,320 each other, 'cause then they're Your tax revenue is less than 1053 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,520 your. What value are they to you? 1054 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,960 You, you can't call them up to fight for you 'cause they're 1055 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,600 fighting with each other and they're not. 1056 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,720 You're contributing to the coffers or helping their own 1057 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:01,040 people or anything so. Surely they were flare ups, we 1058 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,320 just don't know what they were in the 300 years of Storm Kings 1059 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,640 holding the Riverlands. But interestingly, the fall of 1060 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,920 the Storm Kings rule over the Riverlands and transitioning to 1061 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,240 the Ironborn actually was in part because of the Bracken 1062 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,400 Blackwood feud. Yet again, let's start. 1063 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,960 Rather than skipping all, let's skip all the campaign and just 1064 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,240 get to the decisive battle quote. 1065 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,760 Lord Tully abandoned River Run without a fight, fleeing with 1066 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,480 all his strength to join the Host gathering at Raven Tree 1067 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,800 Hall under Lady Agnes Blackwood and her sons. 1068 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,520 But when Lady Agnes advanced upon the Ironborn, her 1069 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:45,040 belligerent neighbour, Lord Lothar Bracken fell upon her 1070 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,480 rear with all his strength and put her men to flight. 1071 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,360 Lady Agnes herself and two of her sons were captured and 1072 00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,680 delivered to King Harwin, who forced the mother to watch as he 1073 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,520 strangled her boys with his bare hands. 1074 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,400 So the reason I wanted to include that last line, which 1075 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,760 isn't actually relevant to the Bracken Blackwood conflict, is, 1076 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,760 well, I think it is because this look at this bad judgement like 1077 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,920 this is who Lothar Bracken allied with this guy that 1078 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,520 strangled this woman's sons in front of her. 1079 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,040 Like this is the man you think you can trust that you want as 1080 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,160 you're out. Like what were you thinking? 1081 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,600 And indeed it was a huge mistake. 1082 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,200 It it he would later regret turning on his fellow 1083 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,120 Riverlanders and it seems like kind of obvious you know that 1084 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,360 that like a blatant mistake and I think that maybe just a dummy 1085 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,440 but I think it was yay, an opportunity to attack the 1086 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,280 Blackwood. I think he just took that part 1087 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,320 of it and focused on that and was like, all right, here's our 1088 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,600 chance and that that was maybe too much of A benefit to him and 1089 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,000 clouded his judgement on how bad the rest of this arrangement 1090 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,280 would be. I also wonder if Lady Agnes just 1091 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,040 hated the Brackens even more than King Harwin. 1092 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,600 I was like, yeah, he killed my sons in front of me, but he that 1093 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,680 other that brackens the reason this is even happening in the 1094 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,800 1st place. He betrayed the entire 1095 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,120 Riverlands. You know like that guy this the 1096 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,520 ironborns are going to Ironborn brackets turned on their own 1097 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:14,360 people. That's worse. 1098 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:19,400 So and had she lived like she stood up to him and was executed 1099 00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,520 for it. If she had she lived, she would 1100 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,200 have seen that Lord Lothar was hanged in a CRO cage to starve 1101 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,120 to death. So he got quite the karma for 1102 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,480 his actions there and I think, I think the Blackwoods would be 1103 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,800 like, Yep, he agreed he he earned that and more. 1104 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,480 I think they'd be saying after that that horrible way their 1105 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,520 lady and her sons were were killed. 1106 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,880 What did King Harwin get? He's the one that seems to be 1107 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,120 getting some karmic justice too. But I don't. 1108 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,160 Did he? He just. 1109 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,080 Nope. Kept being king, he. 1110 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,280 Just ruled the Riverlands and passed it on to his son. 1111 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,840 Yeah, he didn't. He didn't really have any karmic 1112 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,120 justice for him. So yeah, and that's an 1113 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,200 uncomfortable truth about war and conquest, is that it's often 1114 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,480 wildly profitable for the winning side. 1115 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:08,360 But that's a point that doesn't apply to Bracken and Blackwood. 1116 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,120 They're not. There's no profit really, at the 1117 00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,960 end of this for them. Like, if I wipe out the 1118 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,680 Brackens, I get. It's like the Underpants gnomes, 1119 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:16,280 like there's no profit at the end of that. 1120 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,040 Like the king won't let you keep Stone Head. 1121 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,360 The Brackens take Blackwood Vale. 1122 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,600 The king will be like you can't have that. 1123 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,880 We're giving it to a new house. Someone else gets to rule that 1124 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,720 it won't be your ancient and Arch enemies anymore. 1125 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,400 You can maybe feel good, but you're the Bracken that finally 1126 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,640 wiped out the Blackwoods. But there's no actual benefit 1127 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,160 to, like, measurable benefit in that sense, other than maybe 1128 00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,760 they're they'll never attack you again. 1129 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,920 There is always that. Which, again, is the 1130 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,000 uncomfortable truth about the benefits of Warren Conquest 1131 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,920 sometimes. You would get that benefit with 1132 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,680 peace. Also, there's a lot of benefits 1133 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:48,560 to peace. Thank you. 1134 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,480 Yes, exactly. So, so it's an example of how no 1135 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,840 one wins in cycles of endless violence like this. 1136 00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,160 In ancient times, it might have been possible for one of them to 1137 00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,480 wipe out the other, but that's those days are gone. 1138 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,800 They no longer if they ever had the strength to wipe each other 1139 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,240 out, Sean, we talked about that earlier. 1140 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,280 They don't anymore, right? Like they don't now. 1141 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,600 And it would they don't even have the permission to start 1142 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,160 these wars. So when they do it, they're 1143 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,720 already breaking the law. When they do it, they used to be 1144 00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:13,880 able to do it legally and it was still a bad idea. 1145 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,800 Now it's illegal and still a bad idea beyond being illegal. 1146 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:23,160 So lack of benefit, lack of like just they just shooting each 1147 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,160 others in the foot, just it's just so bad. 1148 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,960 But if we're going back to this time, or to where we're 1149 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,640 currently focused on before the Iron Throne was forged, right 1150 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,720 before, there's someone over them going, no, you can't do 1151 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:37,560 that. The iron after the Iron Born had 1152 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,480 ruled the Riverlands for 80 to 90 years. 1153 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,840 We'll Fast forward to that. So not long before the conquest, 1154 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,280 only about 1020 years before the conquest, Heron Hall was 3/4 of 1155 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,080 the way done. OK, so we're 30 years into 1156 00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:48,840 Heron. The Blacks rule. 1157 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,440 He ruled for over 40. The Brackets of Blackwoods went 1158 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:57,360 to war again at this stage, and it went even stupider than it 1159 00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,320 often does. It went further into the realm 1160 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,320 of self-inflicted damage. Quote. 1161 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,640 A decade before Aegon's conquest, the Blackwoods and 1162 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,120 Brackens had entered into a new private war. 1163 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,760 In their ancient feud previously, their ironborn 1164 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,040 overlords had largely ignored such conflicts amongst their 1165 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,400 vassals. Indeed, if the Iron Chronicle 1166 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,520 could be believed, Harwin Hardhand OFT seemed to pit his 1167 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,680 bannermen against one another to keep them weak. 1168 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,840 But this time the feuding disrupted the construction of 1169 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:38,840 Heron Hall, and that was enough reason for Heron the Black to 1170 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,560 deal with them harshly. I wonder how exactly the war 1171 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,400 disrupted the construction. But whatever it was, it would 1172 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,240 have been stupid. Because that's the only thing 1173 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,920 Heron the Black cared about, was building this castle like he was 1174 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,320 making slaves out of people. Like tearing down weirwoods, 1175 00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,360 doing all sorts of awful things. Is is clearly the only thing 1176 00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,400 that mattered to him. You know, it was, it was 30 1177 00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,600 years into this construction, you know, all of his attention 1178 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,840 was put into it, and they disrupted the construction of it 1179 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,040 somehow. I don't even know how. 1180 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,120 Like maybe they destroyed some mine, started some fire. 1181 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,480 Who knows, Maybe a bunch of different things cut off supply 1182 00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:12,760 to this or that. I don't know. 1183 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,520 Their soldiers might have been responsible for transporting 1184 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,720 some material. Instead of doing that, they're 1185 00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,280 all fighting a war. So now all these workers are 1186 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,720 standing around in Hare and Hall without the right materials and 1187 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:23,800 you know. Got another? 1188 00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,480 Another just great example. Great example in air quotes of 1189 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,320 how blind their collective rage makes them, like they are so 1190 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,920 intent on hurting each other. That and then so unable to back 1191 00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:41,280 down that they're while being pretty aware of what's likely to 1192 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,040 happen to them. Like Aaron the Black is going to 1193 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,240 kick Y'all's butts for this, and he's way more powerful than you 1194 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:47,840 all. If you wanted to stand up to 1195 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,800 him, you'd need to do it together, not after weakening 1196 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,200 each other. It's just really, it's like game 1197 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:53,560 of chicken. They're driving right at each 1198 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,600 other, you know, And they're both like, oh, I'm not turning 1199 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,800 And they're just going to ram into each other like they 1200 00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,200 neither of them backs off or they're like, oh, I'm going to 1201 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,240 drive off this Cliff to show you I can do it and then actually 1202 00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,920 drive off the Cliff instead of stopping at the last second, you 1203 00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,800 know. So the conquest moving forward, 1204 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,240 the actual conquest. Aegon and his sisters took 1205 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,600 portions of what became the Crown Lands 1st and moved on to 1206 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,400 the nearest kingdoms. Aegon took on Heron the Black 1207 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,400 himself, who was believed to be the strongest. 1208 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,840 So you know, take on the strongest guy, prove yourself to 1209 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,600 be the new strongest guy. And of course, Valerian was a 1210 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,880 big part of that. The River Lords hated Heron 1211 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,840 hated the Ironborn, probably didn't love the idea of facing 1212 00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,000 Dragons either. So the decision was pretty easy. 1213 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,880 Let's see, we hate this guy. He's probably going to lose. 1214 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,720 Should we stick with him or not? You know, like, it's a pretty 1215 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:38,800 easy call. Let's switch to the guy with 1216 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:40,840 Dragons, who we don't hate, at least not yet. 1217 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,400 And he didn't. Honestly, Eggon didn't really 1218 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:44,400 give them any reason to hate them. 1219 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,320 Not in the Riverlands anyway. Elsewhere, absolutely. 1220 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,200 But the Riverlands, they were like, yay, he's our Liberator. 1221 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,920 Like, yes, he's also going to be our new king, But by comparison 1222 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,680 he's so much better. And he raised a lot of River 1223 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,400 Lords up. Like a lot of them benefited 1224 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,400 from being these early defectors, so a lot of them were 1225 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,480 the first ones to join him, because the rest of the conquest 1226 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,120 wasn't complete yet. He had the Crown lands. 1227 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,840 His sisters were off subjugating the Stormlands and the Veil. 1228 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,840 He took care of Black Heron so fast, the River Lords fell in 1229 01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,800 line so quickly. Yeah, they were like the first 1230 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:12,920 ones. The River Lords were like the 1231 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,040 first ones to join Aegon, and a lot of them benefited greatly. 1232 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,040 But because their private war and subsequent punishment by 1233 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,160 Heron, the Black weakened them so much, neither Blackwood nor 1234 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,560 Bracken were able to take advantage of these new 1235 01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,560 opportunities, these new, this churn that it happened. 1236 01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,000 It's this opportunity to rise in the court of this new Grand 1237 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,200 Conqueror, to be in his esteem, to get new jobs, honors, titles 1238 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:40,240 that went to Edmund Tully because Tully had the strength 1239 01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,520 to do so, whereas Bracken and Blackwood didn't 'cause they 1240 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,000 were so weakened by that private feud and subsequent punishment. 1241 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,280 Remember that Edmund Tully was not only named Lord Paramount of 1242 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,560 the Trident over the Brackens and Blackwoods, both of whom 1243 01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,280 were more powerful than the Tully's then and now. 1244 01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,640 Well, temporarily. They were weaker then, but they 1245 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,320 recovered, you know within 10 to 20 years had more money, more 1246 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,200 soldiers than the Tully's, both of them. 1247 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,320 So it was a wasted opportunity. Had they not fought each other, 1248 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:09,600 one of them could have been in Tully's place, they might have 1249 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:14,160 been fighting over which it was. That's a relatively easy guess 1250 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,560 to make. But still, it's the Tully's were 1251 01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,200 weaker and they but they got to jump to 1st place because of 1252 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,800 their own, their own squabbling. And this. 1253 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,240 The evidence for this is supported later by how quite 1254 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,880 often Bracken and Blackwood were able to claim high places at 1255 01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,840 court later on. We've got both the hands. 1256 01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:32,400 There's a hand to the king Bracken, there's a hand to the 1257 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:33,000 king. Blackwood. 1258 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,400 Well that's blood Raven. But still that counts. 1259 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,960 And yeah, so they this just goes to show that level of prestige 1260 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,920 that the value of having been kings in the past gives them, 1261 01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,600 you know, extra clout among the nobility. 1262 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,000 And yeah, they squatted it from the early going. 1263 01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:49,600 No. I think Nina points this out 1264 01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,360 here that it might have been like a blessing in disguise for 1265 01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,080 Aegon 2 to not have to choose between them like. 1266 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,040 Oh yeah. Guys made it easy for me because 1267 01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,840 then he's kind of choosing sides as a quarrel. 1268 01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,600 Like I I wonder, even if that hadn't happened, he might have 1269 01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:06,040 still chosen Tolley or someone else so as to not have to take 1270 01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,520 sides or reinflame the conflict between those two. 1271 01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:10,960 But they made it easy for him so. 1272 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,640 And he didn't like he wasn't like Heron, where he wanted them 1273 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,240 to fight each other, but he didn't want. 1274 01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,280 But he did want them, the top house in each region, to be 1275 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,000 reliant on him, 'cause he then their he, their authority should 1276 01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,200 come through him so that they need to stay with him in order 1277 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,320 to keep it. Otherwise they might rally their 1278 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,240 realm and fight him. So yeah, by putting until he's 1279 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,600 in a weaker house in charge. Yeah, we've talked about this 1280 01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:34,640 before. Same thing happened with the 1281 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,840 Tyrells and to a lesser extent the Greyjoys. 1282 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,080 Yeah, it could absolutely have also been a reason for egg on 1283 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,360 the Conqueror. Like the prime example of what 1284 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,400 kind of laws he needs to make for his new vassals. 1285 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,760 Like, OK, well we need to keep them from fighting each other 1286 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,880 too much. Bracket and Blackwood is 1287 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,520 probably the best example or worst example of what it could, 1288 01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,600 of how it can devolve. So we need to use them as the 1289 01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,600 litmus test of how we govern. You know, we can't allow these 1290 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,920 kind of private wars. So what do we do to them? 1291 01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,800 How do we punish perpetrators of private war? 1292 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,600 What's the punishment, What's the policy, how do we enforce 1293 01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:11,280 it? Etcetera. 1294 01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,320 Bracket and Blackwood would probably be the the chief 1295 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,360 example like well if we can control those two then we can 1296 01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,560 probably control anyone you know and that would be but there 1297 01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,640 might be like and there might be other river Lords like Edmund 1298 01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,160 Tully who knows them well. Hand of the King is in there 1299 01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,640 like giving specific advice on how to well and and my father 1300 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,880 dealt with them this way or you know well not his father 'cause 1301 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,720 they weren't in charge of them. My father said this about 1302 01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,760 Bracket and Blackwood and their feud or whatever and how how 1303 01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,200 strong had hands of the king in their Riverland's house. 1304 01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,400 They would probably have experience with the Bracket and 1305 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,480 Blackwood feud too. Their their house is just as 1306 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:45,520 old. So thousands of years of dealing 1307 01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,800 with these houses as neighbors. Like yeah well if you want to 1308 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,760 deal with those two, you got to do this or that. 1309 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,520 Don't give too much favor to one or the other. 1310 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,920 Aegon would be getting advice from river Lords like here's how 1311 01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,480 you handle that and then if you if you can handle that one you 1312 01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,440 can handle any other conflict. So yeah, once again, there at 1313 01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,320 the tip of the spear, the best example and the worst example. 1314 01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,280 They're like a long standing problem, but at at that moment 1315 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,360 for Aegon, the Iron Islands had a lot of infighting too, right? 1316 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,480 Yeah, absolutely. So had he Had he conquered? 1317 01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,840 Had they bowed to him at that point? 1318 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:18,960 They didn't bow to him until the second year after the conquest. 1319 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,600 He kind of let them do their thing while he was conquering 1320 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,000 the other areas while the iron. And then he was like time to go 1321 01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,440 settle this and put it 'cause there was an in there was 1322 01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:32,520 religious warring the the Shrike or low dose rather low dose was 1323 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,240 was leading a religious rebellion against the Dragons 1324 01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:42,360 and Yep, it was it was bad. Speaking of the example of that 1325 01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,120 hoster Blackwood gave Jamie of Oh yeah, we've had lots of 1326 01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:46,320 pieces. We've had many times were 1327 01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,400 Bracken and Blackwood married and just it was a temporary fix 1328 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,800 at most, you know. And that happened here. 1329 01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,920 Visenya brokered a double wedding between Bracken and 1330 01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,000 Blackwood early and early after the conquest. 1331 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,440 We're not sure if it was you know 1020 thirty years in 1332 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,240 because it was during Aegon's reign and he reigned till the 1333 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,520 year 36, so plenty of time for that to happen. 1334 01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,960 But either way it also doesn't seem to have created any lasting 1335 01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,400 peace. But it maybe worked for 50-60 1336 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,800 years, so decent job there by Vicenia, but they may have also 1337 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,640 just been like afraid to test their new overlords. 1338 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:25,280 Even Bracken and Blackwood might have been like hair in the black 1339 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,240 can only do so much to us. But these guys have Dragons. 1340 01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,480 We saw what they did to literally to hair in the black. 1341 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,680 They they have Aaron Hall sitting right there to remind 1342 01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,680 them of what happened. So that might have helped keep 1343 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,640 them down for a while, but not forever. 1344 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,000 It came back as it always does and we'll come back after some 1345 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,760 quick messages here. We would love to have you join 1346 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,240 us on Patreon. That is the main source of 1347 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,320 income for us. It's what enables us to do this 1348 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,560 and we try to make it worth your while. 1349 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,120 We've got lots of bonus episodes. 1350 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,960 We do polls which lead to the choosing of episodes, so you can 1351 01:05:55,960 --> 01:06:00,640 help us select episodes. We have our now yearly topics 1352 01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,440 moot, which has happened only one year, but what is going to 1353 01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,000 be a annual thing? And yeah, it's my personal way 1354 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:09,720 of doing things. You've heard me say this before. 1355 01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,560 I'll say it again. I think it's a good way to to to 1356 01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,240 carry yourself whatever shows, podcasts, etcetera that I 1357 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,200 consume the most. Personally, I find myself using 1358 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:19,360 the most. That's those are the ones I 1359 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,160 contribute to. You know maybe the top five or 1360 01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,160 10 or 15 as a podcast history of Westeros supports a good 10 to 1361 01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,880 15 other podcasts. Occasionally we flip, we change 1362 01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,480 it up. You know we only we're not rich. 1363 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,640 We got to support one show for a year, maybe move on to a support 1364 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:35,840 another show for a year and then you come back here and there. 1365 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,960 That's how we do it. And it's worth a discussion here 1366 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,640 in occasionally because I think it's it's a new thing this whole 1367 01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:46,280 the idea of direct supporting of certain creators or certain 1368 01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,320 shows or whatever word you choose for that. 1369 01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,200 It hasn't always been possible so easily the Internet is in 1370 01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,680 technology and and the money going back and forth has made 1371 01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,680 that possible. So these discussions I think 1372 01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,560 have some value because I think a lot of us do it differently 1373 01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,480 and there is no necessarily correct way to do it. 1374 01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:07,520 You know, it's it's really is a a buffet style, you know, take 1375 01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,840 what you want, leave what you don't want, but participate, you 1376 01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:13,760 know. And that's how I think about it. 1377 01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:17,320 So this is my two cents. History of westeros.com is also 1378 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,080 the place to go to link not just to our Patreon, but to a lot of 1379 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,440 other ways to support the show through affiliate links. 1380 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,600 But also we have our episode sorter there. 1381 01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,480 You can find any episode we've made through Ashea's excellent 1382 01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,560 search tool. So that's handy. 1383 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:32,960 A lot of reasons to go to our website. 1384 01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,440 You know, it's been a long time, but I think it's before I ever 1385 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,880 heard the word podcast. But Radiohead released an album 1386 01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,480 for free, and they're like, yeah, you can pay us if you 1387 01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,480 want, however much you like it, pay us that much money. 1388 01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,320 I remember thinking that's a revolutionary idea. 1389 01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:45,280 Yeah. Yeah, right. 1390 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,360 And you know, when you're a band as big as Radiohead, you can do 1391 01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,280 stuff like that. But still I'm not saying that is 1392 01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:55,720 like to be cynical because it it when they do that it it does put 1393 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,000 that idea out there more for more people to do it. 1394 01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:01,080 It encourages that it like it is a rising tide lifts all those 1395 01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,160 type of situation even though even though in this case it's 1396 01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:08,560 just conceptual it's like yeah support directly rather than and 1397 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,000 we all like that like you because who wants to support the 1398 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,320 music industry when you could support the artists like that's 1399 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,000 one of the worst industries there is right. 1400 01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,720 Like podcast industry is fine. Like it's not such the best 1401 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:22,160 ever. But it's it's nowhere, it's not. 1402 01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:26,000 It doesn't have the the decades of of filth that the music 1403 01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,240 industry has. It's just such a criminal 1404 01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,279 industry. Yeah, there's some good people. 1405 01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:31,600 We need to get started on that, Aziz. 1406 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,680 We need more filth. Yeah, let's get let's get in 1407 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:34,000 there. Let's. 1408 01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:35,760 That's that's the industry for me. 1409 01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,960 Yeah. Yeah. 1410 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,840 So we every Friday I do Twitch streaming over on 1411 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,279 twitch.com/history Westeros, and that involves playing the games 1412 01:08:46,279 --> 01:08:48,840 Crusader Kings Three with the Asanga W Fire mod. 1413 01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,840 So it is set in Westeros with Essos and all that good stuff. 1414 01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,520 It's extremely detailed. And there's a group of you all 1415 01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,240 who join me every week, who I call the large council y'all 1416 01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,600 help me make decisions and name characters, plenty or otherwise. 1417 01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:07,680 And right now we're playing House Tarly in the era of just 1418 01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,760 after the Black Fire Rebellion, the final Black Fire rebellion, 1419 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,720 the 9 Penny Kings war. And we had Robert's brother, 1420 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,760 Robert's father's rebellion. That's right, Robert didn't 1421 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,640 exist in this timeline because it started in 258, before he was 1422 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,200 born. Robert's father Stefan instead 1423 01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:26,439 rebelled against the Queen Rainier Targaryen. 1424 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,880 Not the same Rainier as you know, Dance of Dragon's era, a 1425 01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,520 different Rainier child of of Aegon the 5th. 1426 01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:37,760 And so good times and and fun happens every Friday with 1427 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:42,080 alternate world Game of Thrones. Let's get back to it. 1428 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,600 It's funny to think about Victorian and how Euron Oh no, 1429 01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:48,000 did that sentence. You can just stop right there. 1430 01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:49,200 It's funny to think about Victorian. 1431 01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:52,399 Yeah, just end of sentence. No, no, just kidding. 1432 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,320 It's funny to think about Victorian and how Euron got him 1433 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,920 to go halfway across the world simply by taunting him with the 1434 01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,040 equivalent of what? Are you scared? 1435 01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:00,400 Too scared to go across the world? 1436 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:01,520 Like, I'm not as scared of anything. 1437 01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,440 I'll go across the world. Like that is the most 1438 01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:07,280 manipulatable person like you are. 1439 01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,040 So like, talk about like leaving yourself open, like this guy can 1440 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,040 totally make him do, make you do whatever he wants. 1441 01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,720 Yeah. How like, so keep that in mind. 1442 01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:19,880 Like one brother taunting the other and getting him into 1443 01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,240 action. Blackwood taunting Bracken or 1444 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:24,600 black or back and forth or the other way around, vice versa. 1445 01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,360 Like that's probably very effective because they hate each 1446 01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,720 other so much. They they have so little, they 1447 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,720 use so little of their brain when it comes to the opposite, 1448 01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:35,160 you know, they get worked up so easily. 1449 01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,120 It's just like that bracken. It only have to be true, like to 1450 01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:39,680 someone. Like a virus or a little finger 1451 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,000 could be like bro, that black. That black one black. 1452 01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,600 I was doing it. I was doing so well, not 1453 01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,560 crossing bracket and Blackwood names. 1454 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,920 Now I'm doing it. That Blackwood over there called 1455 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,880 you a name, bro. What like didn't have to be 1456 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:54,240 true. They probably believe it because 1457 01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:55,600 that is what a Blackwood would do. 1458 01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:57,800 You can't trust them. They're all treacherous. 1459 01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,280 They're born with traitors, blood. 1460 01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:00,440 Like Jonas said. Yeah. 1461 01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,920 I appreciate that. Was that Littlefinger and virus 1462 01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,560 you said? You know, like squirrelly 1463 01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,880 manipulative characters. You can lump Tywin in with them 1464 01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:10,480 also. Right. 1465 01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:11,920 Oh, yes. Tywin would do that. 1466 01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:13,160 Yeah, he would do it. He would also do it to their 1467 01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:14,520 faces. But he would also do it behind 1468 01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:16,000 the scenes. Yeah, he would do both they. 1469 01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:17,720 'D do it, it seems. Right. 1470 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:19,320 Oh yeah, that later. Yes, Tywin. 1471 01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,320 Totally took advantage of of of this of their hating each other. 1472 01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:28,000 So after the conquest this this phase that we like to call under 1473 01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,400 the Dragons and we have a couple of different episodes that are 1474 01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,960 hold that title different houses or regions and and how the early 1475 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,040 phase of under the conquest treated them. 1476 01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:39,000 The Brackens and Blackens weren't in a great position to 1477 01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,040 take advantage of the great ship power as we said they did so 1478 01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,800 later though that's as well in part due to proximity their 1479 01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,520 former royal houses that are near King's Landing relatively 1480 01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:52,000 speaking they're not as proximate as each other. 1481 01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:53,160 You know they're not right next door. 1482 01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,840 But still the Riverland is like 2 weeks, 3 weeks ride from from 1483 01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,040 their lands to King's Landing, which is pretty short 1484 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,280 comparatively. Things were pretty quiet for 1485 01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:05,880 Blackwood and Bracken under Aegon, Anis and Megor, and that 1486 01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,880 might be because of that Vicenia double marriage that might have 1487 01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,960 really worked for couple or a generation or two. 1488 01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,400 Or maybe they just were like I said earlier, afraid of pissing 1489 01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,840 off the Dragons. Fairpoint, right? 1490 01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,080 Like Vicenia and Aegon and and well, Raines would have been 1491 01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,280 dead pretty early on, but still. But the Brackens were busy with 1492 01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,880 Megor thanks to his wars against the Faith and the Brackens. 1493 01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:31,040 The Black, the Blackwoods might have sat back and been like see, 1494 01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:35,640 look what happens when you mess with you know, you take on the 1495 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,280 seven like that, you become a 7 worshipper and look what 1496 01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:39,960 happens. You got to get in these wars and 1497 01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,240 all that. Like our religion is so much 1498 01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:46,480 better. Bracken was also Kingsguard in 1499 01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:51,280 this era and he defected away from Megor when Megor's reign 1500 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,960 kind of collapsed. And yeah, I wonder if the 1501 01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,200 Blackwoods were like, why would you have a Bracken in your 1502 01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:58,640 Kingsguard? Like how could you trust that 1503 01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,520 guy? Like he's just going to stab you 1504 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,280 in the back. And sure enough, like that's why 1505 01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,920 what they said, even though it was Megor, he did, he defected 1506 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,040 away from Megor like see, can't trust him even though it was a 1507 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,840 totally reasonable thing to do. Like, I mean, this is Megor 1508 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,760 we're talking about, but Jerry's who was obviously king next, 1509 01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,760 didn't really want any Kingsguard who switched sides 1510 01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,320 and so and so he allowed this Oliver Bracken to switch his 1511 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,480 white cloak for a black one and join the Night's Watch. 1512 01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,040 Now this Oliver Bracken had more adventures in the North, crazy 1513 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:30,960 stuff that happened up there, but they have nothing to do with 1514 01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,680 any Blackwoods or the feud. But it's it's quite a story 1515 01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:36,880 anyway. But we'll come back at some 1516 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:37,240 other. Time. 1517 01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:38,880 He wasn't exactly a hero, though. 1518 01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,200 Cried me from. Oh no, he was definitely not. 1519 01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:42,440 Not exactly. Not even close. 1520 01:13:42,440 --> 01:13:43,120 He was a bad guy. But. 1521 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:48,120 When when we were first putting this episode together, I asked 1522 01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:54,920 you, are there any brackens who are protagonistic, heroic, you 1523 01:13:54,920 --> 01:14:00,080 know, any kind of positive light And you're like, I don't think 1524 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:01,920 so. And I'm like, are there any 1525 01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,640 Blackwoods who were like negative villain, bad guys? 1526 01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:07,360 I'm like maybe blood Raven, you know, sort of. 1527 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:12,440 It seems pretty clear that George is presenting them with a 1528 01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:14,640 bias. Yes, they are, you know, But 1529 01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,680 it's it's. Interesting that that Despite 1530 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,600 that bias, none has triumphed over the other. 1531 01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,760 You know, and I have more to say on that later as well. 1532 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,920 Same, yeah, so Bethenia's double marriage didn't have, you know, 1533 01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,720 eventually it a war off, I guess because things clearly flared 1534 01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,320 back up near the end of the 1st century or so. 1535 01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:36,360 We don't have the details, but here's a brief quote that tells 1536 01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:40,000 the story. Even the old king Jehari's the 1537 01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:44,760 conciliator failed in his attempt to halt the ceaseless 1538 01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:50,600 war, for the peace he forged not long outlast the end of his 1539 01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:51,720 reign. Yep. 1540 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,480 So they went right back at it. Even the man who earned the 1541 01:14:54,480 --> 01:14:57,040 nickname The Conciliator, like, he was really good at this sort 1542 01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,640 of thing. He made peace between the faith 1543 01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,560 and his house. Like after what Megor did solved 1544 01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:07,000 all that, brought a lot of other houses back into the fold that 1545 01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,720 had wars with each other. Just fixed a lot of simmering 1546 01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,240 feuds. But he couldn't fix this one. 1547 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:13,520 It had start. To be fair, it had lasted a lot 1548 01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,280 longer than the other ones that he was dealing with. 1549 01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:20,360 But this goes to show all right. The dance era. 1550 01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:25,160 The Blackwood supported Lanor in the Great Council of One O 1. 1551 01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:28,960 Remember the book version? It's Lanor, not Rainey's. 1552 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,880 We don't know who the Brackens supported, but probably Viserys 1553 01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,600 because he was the most popular candidate by far. 1554 01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:40,240 And the Blackwoods are noted as an exception to supporting 1555 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:41,880 Lanor. So almost certainly the Brackens 1556 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,320 were supported. Viserys, who of course became 1557 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,280 King 11 years later in the year, won 12. 1558 01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:51,200 So we're still 17 years before the war a Samwell Blackwood 1559 01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,840 dueled am Sir Amos Bracken for Rainier his favor. 1560 01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,800 There's no indication Rainier actually cared that much, but 1561 01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:00,800 they said hey let me let us duel for your favor and just 1562 01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:04,080 thinking, OK, neither of them actually got anything out of it. 1563 01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,600 Amos won the duel but it didn't seem to win in many acclaim. 1564 01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:13,080 In fact, the Brackens fought for the Greens later, so maybe it 1565 01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,480 maybe they were expecting something and got nothing. 1566 01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:17,200 And that's why they were like, all right, we're fighting for 1567 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,880 the Greens. But so a different version of 1568 01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:22,320 this happened on TV. There's a different bracket and 1569 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:24,920 Blackwood happened for some reason, it happened in the Storm 1570 01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,960 Lands, but whatever. So that wasn't Samwell, it was 1571 01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:32,480 what was his name, Willem Blackwood versus Gerald Bracken, 1572 01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,320 which is that works for me. Like, I don't know why they 1573 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,880 changed it from Samwell and Amos, but like, there's been 1574 01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:39,880 infinite Blackwoods that have fought infinite Bracken. 1575 01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,640 So just yeah, throw two names together and give them a reason 1576 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,520 to fight. And which this is, they're both 1577 01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,400 trying to I impress the girl more than you. 1578 01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,520 And you can imagine the taunting, just like it happened 1579 01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,320 in the TV show 1. Little taunt is really all it's 1580 01:16:50,440 --> 01:16:52,320 took to get going. And if those were two other 1581 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,280 houses, it might be like, that seems extreme. 1582 01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:56,920 But Bracken and Blackwood and I actually like how the TV show 1583 01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:00,520 portrayed it because right after young Willem kills Gerald, he 1584 01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:02,080 like, throws up. He can't believe what he just 1585 01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:03,880 did. And it's like that to me. 1586 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,280 That's the feud. That's his and their ancestors 1587 01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:08,800 made that happen as much like they're like they're just along 1588 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,080 for the ride. Like the kid doesn't even know 1589 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,920 what he's doing until he's like, Oh my God, I just killed this 1590 01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:17,520 guy, you know? So that's that's the power of 1591 01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,200 this feud, just like coursing through his veins. 1592 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:24,400 And and once he's done that, it's going to be hard to choose 1593 01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,400 a new path forward, you know what I mean? 1594 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,480 He's kind of has to stand by that identity that he just 1595 01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:31,800 created for himself or that his parents created for him or 1596 01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:33,280 whatever. Yeah, he's got to own it. 1597 01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:34,320 He's like, yeah, I killed that Prac. 1598 01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:36,400 And even if he kind of feels guilty about it or feels bad 1599 01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:40,160 about it or like Nope to it's it's that whole better to look 1600 01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,640 cruel than stupid kind of thing, you know, He's like, you know I 1601 01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:44,880 did that. So just by what he believes, 1602 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:46,480 he's going to say that he did it on purpose. 1603 01:17:46,480 --> 01:17:49,440 And I took out a bracken. That was a good thing, you know, 1604 01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:51,960 you're like, I'm always going to be proud of that. 1605 01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:53,080 Well, you know, why wouldn't I be? 1606 01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:54,680 Blah, blah, blah. He may not actually feel that, 1607 01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,560 but that's what that's the party line, I think. 1608 01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,440 I just want to point out that I I avoided research in this 1609 01:18:00,440 --> 01:18:04,120 section 'cause I don't want to spoil myself for for the House 1610 01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,200 of the Dragons show, you know, and and I kind of trust you to 1611 01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:09,640 not spoil me through here. But for example, I'm scared to 1612 01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:13,600 even know which side the Brackens and Blackwoods fall on 1613 01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,440 because there seems to be such this bias for the Blackwoods 1614 01:18:16,440 --> 01:18:19,520 being more of the good guys, although that's not the same 1615 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:20,880 thing as being on the winning side. 1616 01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,000 But anyway, I just want to throw that out there to the audience 1617 01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:25,760 trying to stay unsullied on this. 1618 01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:28,000 If you want to take your headphones off for three 1619 01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,120 minutes, this is the only brief spoilers we have. 1620 01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:32,840 They're pretty mild, but so the Blackwoods declared for the 1621 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,120 blacks early in the war, as did most of the Riverlands. 1622 01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:37,520 The brackets took the side of the Greens, and though it isn't 1623 01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:41,000 explicit, it might have been because they didn't want to be 1624 01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,560 on the same side as the Black Blackwoods, which is obviously a 1625 01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,400 foolish decision making your choice based on who your which 1626 01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:50,080 side your enemy is on. Like you know you should make a 1627 01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,680 decision based on what's better for your house overall, not just 1628 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,960 what the Blackwoods are doing. And they certainly engaged in 1629 01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:59,480 some fresh mutual destruction. You know, there was the Lord 1630 01:18:59,480 --> 01:19:02,920 Blackwood was killed and then Lord Bracken was killed. 1631 01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:06,280 And mostly the Blackwoods got the better of it, but not 1632 01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:09,600 because it was Blackwood versus Bracken, but because most of the 1633 01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:11,680 Riverlands was on the side of the of the blacks. 1634 01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,000 So the Brackens were in the minority and it didn't work out 1635 01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:15,480 very well. Damon was there. 1636 01:19:15,480 --> 01:19:17,960 They didn't have a dragon on the air side. 1637 01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:20,600 So pretty quickly the Brackens were not a factor in the war 1638 01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:25,440 anymore. They lost and they joined the 1639 01:19:25,440 --> 01:19:27,240 rest of the Riverlands. But we don't actually hear the 1640 01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,200 mentioned. Again, the Blackwoods mentioned 1641 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,480 a lot throughout the rest of the war, but not in the context of 1642 01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:34,120 fighting Brackens. So it's not too relevant for us 1643 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,960 today, except perhaps to say the brackets probably were jealous. 1644 01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,640 The the the Blackwoods were very outstanding. 1645 01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,360 There are a lot of famous names. Black Alley, Blackwood, Bloody 1646 01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:48,040 Ben, Blackwood, Red, Rob Rivers, even that's a Bachelor of Raven 1647 01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:53,160 tree. So other than the fame and honor 1648 01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:56,080 that Blackwoods gained that the brackets didn't, that there's 1649 01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,240 not much else to say about the dance now. 1650 01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:01,160 It's certainly possible there was another flare up after the 1651 01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:04,480 dance. But we're getting into the era 1652 01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,840 which is after the dance that is kind of hazy for us it's there's 1653 01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:11,760 no there's fire in blood, but there's no blood in fire. 1654 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,880 Meaning we have the years one through one 31136 just pretty 1655 01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:20,120 well known but the period between after the dance up until 1656 01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:25,480 roughly Roberts Rebellion Ish maybe a little before that we 1657 01:20:25,480 --> 01:20:28,800 just we're missing a lot you know there's certain periods we 1658 01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:31,280 know decently well because of Dunkin Egg for example. 1659 01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:34,200 But yeah, there's large chunks that are some of the least 1660 01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:38,720 understood for us. And it looks likely that there 1661 01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,880 was some Blackwood Bracken competition here and there, 1662 01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,280 especially after the dance when there was no more threat of 1663 01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:47,560 Dragons, right? They they they it's one thing 1664 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:52,840 for Bracken and Blackwood to rise up and get egg on or Mega 1665 01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,320 or someone's attention and Valerian, next thing you know, 1666 01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,760 Valerian is there, you know, burning one of their castles 1667 01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:59,760 down. But after the dance, just like 1668 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:01,640 no Dragons left. So what do they they they have 1669 01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,800 probably feel a little more empowered to to do what they 1670 01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,320 want and deal with the consequences later 'cause they 1671 01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,000 were already pretty willing to do that. 1672 01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,200 It's like, well, we'll fight each other and that's better 1673 01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:14,680 than not fighting each other, even though the punishment will 1674 01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:18,520 be great. Yeah, so but they also, it also 1675 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:23,600 shows how things transitioned. They started fighting. 1676 01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:26,240 They moved, let's say they didn't start fighting, but they 1677 01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:30,520 moved their theater of their feud to not just the Riverlands 1678 01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,640 anymore. It started also happening at 1679 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:38,800 Court Bracket and Blackwood Dynamics played out at the Red 1680 01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,360 Keep as much as they played out in the Riverlands. 1681 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:45,120 This is a difference is an evolution of their feud and it's 1682 01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,840 fairly recent in the history we were. 1683 01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,520 We've covered thousands of years of history today, but some of 1684 01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:53,040 the stuff under the Targaryen reign is is very different 1685 01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:57,920 because it's allows them to both simultaneously play out their 1686 01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:01,360 ambitions, both against each other and individually as houses 1687 01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,560 under the auspices of the Iron Throne, where there's a lot of 1688 01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:08,480 space to rise because hey, the the era of Blackwood and Bracken 1689 01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:11,640 Kings is gone. But there's nothing to say that 1690 01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:17,920 a Bracken or Blackwood Queen couldn't exist through marriage 1691 01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:21,080 to a Targaryen, right? That's entirely possible. 1692 01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,640 It wasn't as possible during the era of Dragons 'cause they were 1693 01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:28,240 more set on the incestuous marriages because the blood of 1694 01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:31,000 the dragon making able to fly Dragons and all that. 1695 01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:35,600 But after the dance, the Dragons were no longer the source of 1696 01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:38,400 Targaryen power. They started to move towards the 1697 01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,080 faith. They started to embrace the 1698 01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:43,720 seven as a means of power, as a means of authority, cause to 1699 01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:47,920 replace their draconic authority like they had physical prowess 1700 01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,560 with the Dragons. They didn't have that anymore. 1701 01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:52,760 So they're like, well, the gods chose us. 1702 01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:56,600 We are the arbiters of heaven in a sense, so you everything goes 1703 01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:02,600 through us, right? And that enabled non incestuous 1704 01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,800 marriages because the Targaryens are like, well we don't care 1705 01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:07,840 about that as much. Plus we're also trying to be 1706 01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:11,000 more under the rules of the faith, and the faith isn't so 1707 01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,200 big on incest. Yes, we had the doctrine of 1708 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,560 exceptionalism, but the doctrine of exceptionalism specifically 1709 01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:20,320 refers to Dragons and things like that which we don't have 1710 01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,120 those anymore. So they kind of quietly started 1711 01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,840 doing more, quote UN quote regular marriages to just 1712 01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,000 powerful houses rather than just to each other. 1713 01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:32,920 And yes, Bracken and Blackwood were included in that. 1714 01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:39,440 And in no era was that more a big deal, more prominent than 1715 01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:46,040 under Aegon the Unworthy, who had his famous 9 mistresses and 1716 01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:48,440 countless other lovers and, you know, flings and what have you. 1717 01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:52,080 But there were nine that like, had longevity so real. 1718 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:53,880 Here's an overview of the relevant parts. 1719 01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:56,720 Egon the Unworthy's fifth mistress was Barbara Bracken, 1720 01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:00,360 who bore Egor Rivers, who later became known as Bitter Steel. 1721 01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:04,000 Egon the Unworthy's sixth mistress was Melissa Blackwood, 1722 01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,160 who bore Brendan Rivers, who later become known as 1723 01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,040 Bloodraven. There's also two sisters, Mia 1724 01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:09,960 and Gwyneth, but we don't know anything about them, so we'll 1725 01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,000 just have to skip them for now. Aegon the Unworthy's 7th 1726 01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:16,400 mistress, so 5-6 and seven, was Bethany Bracken, who was 1727 01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,760 Barbara's younger sister and bore no children, but she 1728 01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,160 suffered as much as anyone described in this episode. 1729 01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:25,720 Poor Bethany Bracken. While others will leverage or 1730 01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:30,840 incite the Bracken or Blackwood feud for gain as a strategy or 1731 01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,000 whatever for their own purposes, Aegon just did it for fun. 1732 01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:35,600 Which is, you know, that is his own purposes. 1733 01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:40,760 But his own purposes were just kind of simple and kind of 1734 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,760 cynical, you know? So when he was dating Barbara 1735 01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,080 Bracken, he took the teats, which were currently in the 1736 01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,240 possession of Blackwoods, and just reassigned them to the. 1737 01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,240 He's like, Nope, these belong to you now, kind of inciting the 1738 01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:54,280 old few just bought on a whim then. 1739 01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,240 And the part of this was because Barbara was well endowed in the 1740 01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:59,640 chest and he thought it was funny to be like, ah, she get 1741 01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,360 it's her family deserves these because she's buxom. 1742 01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,400 You know, like, yeah, again, this guy was a real piece of 1743 01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:07,480 work. That's why he was the unworthy. 1744 01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:09,360 Although, well, just one example of why. 1745 01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:13,680 Anyway, then then he breaks up with Barbara eventually and 1746 01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:19,080 takes Melissa Blackwood as a lover, probably in part to piss 1747 01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,240 off the Brackens, just because this is the kind of thing he 1748 01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,000 did. I mean, he could have had about 1749 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:24,320 anybody he wanted. He was the king. 1750 01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:28,120 But he took Melissa Blackwood and gave the teats back to the 1751 01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:30,320 Blackwoods. He just like Nah, actually 1752 01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:32,440 reverse that decision. It goes back to them just on a 1753 01:25:32,440 --> 01:25:35,000 whim, just giving land to one family, taking it away, giving 1754 01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:37,200 it back, blah blah blah. And all this was in the backdrop 1755 01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,760 of a much bigger drama playing out at court over the years. 1756 01:25:40,480 --> 01:25:42,640 We don't actually know who owned had the teats for just like a 1757 01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:43,920 lot. Just like the origin of feud. 1758 01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:45,640 We don't know who had the teats first, who took it from the 1759 01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:50,280 other, but we don't know. But it's what's more important 1760 01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,680 here is just this guy's being a just a a blatant, silly tyrant 1761 01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,000 here. He's like, yeah man, this is 1762 01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,640 land ownership is a big deal. It's it's held to entrust. 1763 01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:02,840 It's like an important part of their society, you know? 1764 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,480 Think of the impact it has on the people that live there too, 1765 01:26:05,480 --> 01:26:09,160 like they just have no idea what to predict or plan for. 1766 01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,520 Should we harvest our? Should we plant crops? 1767 01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:17,000 Who is going to tax us? Are our houses safe from being 1768 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,960 taken over or attacked? You know, like and to him, it's 1769 01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,480 a whim that he thinks nothing about except three or four 1770 01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:26,720 people that might get upset. But never mind the hundreds of 1771 01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,400 people whose lives are at stake, you know? 1772 01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,400 Yeah, yeah, that's a great. Yeah, great point, Sean. 1773 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:34,560 So, well, when he was dating Barbara, when he had her as his 1774 01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,440 mistress, Dating is kind of a funny term to use in this 1775 01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:40,600 context, but whatever. Lord Bracken was Aegon's hand, 1776 01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:44,480 so he was basically taking advantage of the King's infinite 1777 01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:46,360 lust by, like, bringing his daughter into the mix. 1778 01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:49,600 Now, it's actually not clear what came first, the Hand ship 1779 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,800 or the relationship. He may have leveraged their 1780 01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:53,440 relationship to become Hand or the other way around. 1781 01:26:53,440 --> 01:26:55,440 Doesn't matter. Both of these things were 1782 01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:57,800 regular occurrences on Aegon's court. 1783 01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,520 Both he was the the King of Bathe Her and Bring Her To Me, 1784 01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,320 You know that that was his thing. 1785 01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:06,440 But she, Barbara, was actually originally one of the companions 1786 01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:08,880 at the Maiden Vault, one of the princesses in the tower. 1787 01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,680 So that's probably where he met her. 1788 01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,240 So it probably wasn't Lord Bracken being Hand first then. 1789 01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,440 But again, it doesn't really matter which happened first. 1790 01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:22,120 It's a big parallel to Otto Hightower using Allison to get 1791 01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:24,880 in with Viserys, who's already hand, and then he brings 1792 01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:28,160 daughter in. Instead of Otto pushing Viserys 1793 01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:31,640 to set Rainier aside for his grandson, we have Lord Bracken 1794 01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:35,080 encouraging the King's rivalry with his brother, aiming the 1795 01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:38,040 dragon knight and his own queen, the sister sister wife Nerys, 1796 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,920 right? Remember, Aegon tried to disown 1797 01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,800 his own son so he could maybe inherit, give the inheritance to 1798 01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,360 one of his bastards. Which is exactly what Lord 1799 01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:50,480 Bracken would be pushing for cause one of those bastards was 1800 01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:52,920 Bitter Steel, who, you know, didn't have that nickname yet. 1801 01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:58,960 But a Bracken being king could have was a reasonable 1802 01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,640 possibility in this era, and they were certainly pushing for 1803 01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:02,720 it. And there he's had her 1804 01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:04,280 illnesses, right? She was frail. 1805 01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:07,400 The maester's like, it's not a good idea for her to have more 1806 01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:09,760 for her to have more kids. Aegon didn't give a crap. 1807 01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:11,560 He's like, I don't care, we're going to we're going to take, 1808 01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:13,720 give it a shot. You know if she dies, she dies. 1809 01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,920 I got more women. His attitude is like that. 1810 01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,760 Pretty awful. So he'd also fathered Damon 1811 01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,080 Blackfyre by this era. But of course, Damon was not 1812 01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:26,440 Damon Blackfyre till he was 12. He was Damon Waters and and the 1813 01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:29,120 father wasn't known. Dana the Defiant refused to say 1814 01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,360 so. That's why Hagor was more 1815 01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:33,480 prominent in this era, even though he was a year younger 1816 01:28:33,480 --> 01:28:35,400 than Damon. But then Brendan Rivers comes 1817 01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:39,040 along under when Melissa gives birth, and that's four or five 1818 01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:41,920 years later. I've long believed that Agor and 1819 01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:45,120 Damon, who are both larger and older now. 1820 01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,000 I don't think Damon would have picked on Bloodraven, but Agor 1821 01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,480 would have. He's been taught Not only has he 1822 01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:54,840 been taught to hate Blackwoods, but this is a particularly 1823 01:28:54,840 --> 01:29:00,080 charged situation because Barba and Lord Bracken were very 1824 01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:01,320 ambitious. They both. 1825 01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:05,840 They wanted to win Aegon over, get Favors Nerys when she was 1826 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:08,520 dying. Lord Bracken started openly 1827 01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:12,520 talking about the king marrying Barba after, you know, in in her 1828 01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,680 place before she died. Like she didn't die until many 1829 01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:17,760 years later. So it was really just uncouth, 1830 01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:23,200 really just bad, like his poor policy for his ambitions, not a 1831 01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:26,160 good way to accomplish his goals, his crappy goals. 1832 01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,240 So he went too far that even Aegon had enough. 1833 01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:31,400 They like, you're gone, you're done. 1834 01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,560 No more of this talk of setting my wife aside or replacing my 1835 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:35,320 wife. You're out. 1836 01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:38,480 How bad? Do you have to be for Aegon the 1837 01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:40,680 Unworthy to think you're bad, you know? 1838 01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:43,480 Yes, a very good point. Yes, good observation. 1839 01:29:43,480 --> 01:29:47,200 So so you got to think that bitter steel who eventually 1840 01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:50,360 poured poison in Damon's ear as we're told, had this poison 1841 01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:54,400 poured in his ear first by his grandfather and mother who were 1842 01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:58,560 bitter like he is over losing their station. 1843 01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,480 Losing their relationship, losing his hand. 1844 01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:05,520 Ship all that to a Blackwood, right? 1845 01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:08,320 Not just losing it, but losing it to a Blackwood like oof. 1846 01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:11,880 Like that is the boiling point. That's all the things they hate. 1847 01:30:13,400 --> 01:30:17,240 Stifled ambition and Blackwoods, you know, like all that, right? 1848 01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:19,960 Mix into a pot and they can pour all that into this sun. 1849 01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:24,920 This promising martial violent boy who's really good at has 1850 01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,080 purple eyes. He's really good at fighting. 1851 01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:29,040 It looks like he's going to be a real winner of a knight. 1852 01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:31,480 Well, he might be not a winner, but he is certainly a knight. 1853 01:30:31,480 --> 01:30:35,960 And and dangerous and yeah, the other other words. 1854 01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,560 You're up to you on how to describe bitter steel. 1855 01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,680 I've got the shirt on so I'm a fan as a character. 1856 01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,880 So remember this parallel look. Think about how strong a 1857 01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,000 parallel is. Like Otto was also fired for 1858 01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:49,200 pushing the issue of succession too much, right? 1859 01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:53,360 So you can kind of see. But this would have been 1860 01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:56,000 different though, 'cause, like Viserys isn't Aegon the 1861 01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,000 unworthy, he's not. It wasn't a great king, but he 1862 01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:01,000 also wasn't awful, wasn't abject terrible, wasn't just like 1863 01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,320 constantly doing things to make it worse. 1864 01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:07,320 And yes, Viserys left the realm in a sorry state at visa visa 1865 01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,920 succession, but it was it was through inaction, whereas Aegon 1866 01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,280 did it specifically. He created the problem that 1867 01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:18,640 wasn't there. Viserys made passive errors. 1868 01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:22,520 Aegon created problems, created new problems. 1869 01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:25,800 And these problems were created through the black and black with 1870 01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:28,960 Feud. He used their focused hate as 1871 01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:36,760 like a like a laser like he that was the amplifier of this drama 1872 01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:39,680 was using the two houses who hated each other the most and 1873 01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:42,080 just making a game of it. He's like, I'm going to pit them 1874 01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:44,240 against each other and see what happens. 1875 01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,600 And I get to sleep with whoever I want anyway, So what do I 1876 01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:49,480 care? Yeah, so it's just this awful 1877 01:31:49,480 --> 01:31:52,160 game, like picture. This is what, like, imagine this 1878 01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:54,840 is the kind of thing Joffrey would have done if he had lived 1879 01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:58,280 to be older as a king, Probably with more more violence, 1880 01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:01,840 probably with Joffrey and less sex, but still still pretty bad. 1881 01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:04,440 This is the type of thing that makes us not want kings. 1882 01:32:04,480 --> 01:32:08,000 This is the type of thing that led the world to favor democracy 1883 01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:09,200 or whatever else. Yeah. 1884 01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,760 Yeah. When you have a good king, it's 1885 01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:14,720 arguably better than a democracy, even. 1886 01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:18,600 You know, if you have a good, just, wise, intelligent on and 1887 01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:22,640 on positive leader, they can maybe make a greater difference 1888 01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,440 with greater power, but it's not worth it because if they're not, 1889 01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:29,360 if they are. Inevitably, someone won't be. 1890 01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:30,640 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 1891 01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:33,720 They can just completely undo all the positives and be so 1892 01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:38,800 awful for everyone, yeah. Yeah, so it's there. 1893 01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:41,120 We see a lot of this there. And yeah, so it's instead of 1894 01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,720 like most kings have had to deal with the Brackens and Blackwoods 1895 01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:47,600 to figure out a way to keep calm them down, this king incited 1896 01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:49,480 them. He took the thing that's a 1897 01:32:49,480 --> 01:32:54,520 problem for rulers and made it worse for his amusement. 1898 01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:58,320 Now we're not sure why Melissa left or was set aside. 1899 01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:00,680 Maybe Aegon just was like, I'm ready for a new mistress. 1900 01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:02,560 I've had her for several years. I'm bored. 1901 01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:05,880 But it could be like the brackens were in his ear, you 1902 01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:07,440 know. Hey, I've got another one for 1903 01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:09,000 you. I've got a better younger girl 1904 01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:10,720 for you because that's what happened. 1905 01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:13,400 The next mistress was Bethany Bracken, who we are explicitly 1906 01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:17,080 told was groomed by her father and older sister who had 1907 01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,880 experience like he likes it when you touches this or he likes it 1908 01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:23,280 when you do this or whisper that like like it's so bad. 1909 01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:24,760 But that's this is what happened. 1910 01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:27,600 Like she's teaching her younger sister how to like, please, this 1911 01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:29,720 man. But she wasn't ambitious like 1912 01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:31,320 her sister and father. She didn't like it. 1913 01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:34,520 She wasn't in on the plan and she of course eventually got 1914 01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:37,520 caught sleeping with the Kingsguard and was executed 1915 01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:40,440 horribly after watching the Kingsguard be executed horribly. 1916 01:33:40,440 --> 01:33:42,720 And there was punishment and torture, and then Lord Bracken 1917 01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:44,960 was executed as well. So it really backfired. 1918 01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:48,960 It really backfired on the Brackens trying to get in with 1919 01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:52,560 the king here. And they're pushing back against 1920 01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:54,760 the Blackwood element. I think might be a big part of 1921 01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:58,760 what caused them to act far. They there was a line that they 1922 01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,360 might have played around properly if it was just their 1923 01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:04,600 ambition, but the hatred of Blackwoods and that element, 1924 01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:08,640 like it just threw a hole, just threw some chaos into the mix. 1925 01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:11,000 Gas on the fire. Yeah, that's a good one. 1926 01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:14,320 Yeah, it was a catalyst for them to act stupidly, like, oh, they 1927 01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:16,920 might have kept their cool and stuck to their plan, but this 1928 01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:18,680 Blackwood hate threw them off like that. 1929 01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:21,200 We got to also get the Blackwood that became part of the ambition 1930 01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:24,000 is yes, we want power, but we want to use it against the 1931 01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:27,120 Blackwoods and we want to use it before we even have it all. 1932 01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,040 Like, yes, make me king before the queen is even dead. 1933 01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:33,080 Or make make my daughter queen before the before your queen is 1934 01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:34,840 even dead. So just lots of mistakes like 1935 01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:36,640 you couldn't. You can't rise that high being 1936 01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:39,400 stupid, but they definitely did stupid things to lose it, you 1937 01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:43,640 know, it's it's like, yeah, another example of both power 1938 01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:45,480 and hatred just messing with your brain. 1939 01:34:45,480 --> 01:34:47,600 When those two things were together, they can really mess 1940 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:49,360 with your brain. So the realm would suffer 1941 01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:50,520 immensely. Though this was just the 1942 01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,080 beginning right? This is just laying the seeds 1943 01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:58,720 for the blackfyre rebellions. Which again, the biggest great 1944 01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:01,320 civil war since the dance, one of the greatest civil wars in 1945 01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:03,840 the history of Westeros. And I'm not sure it happens 1946 01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:06,200 without Bracken and Blackwoods, without their feud. 1947 01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:10,000 It's their these mothers, really, the Bracken mother that 1948 01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:13,200 was pushing it more, and Aegon the unworthy. 1949 01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:16,080 But still, the Blackwoods are not blameless. 1950 01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:19,560 They definitely get a big part of the of the blame for this 1951 01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:22,320 next part. In general they have an equal 1952 01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:25,840 share of the blame, I would say. But here, maybe, maybe there's a 1953 01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:29,800 case for for it to be a little different still, like a virus 1954 01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:33,280 that spreads from a rural area to an urban area where it wreaks 1955 01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:37,520 havoc because there's a lot more people, you know, The bracken 1956 01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,880 Blackwood feud pushed itself onto a larger stage here with 1957 01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,440 the black fire rebellions. It started at King's Landing, 1958 01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:44,520 then incubated back in the Riverland. 1959 01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:49,000 You got Barbara and her father sent home complaining and 1960 01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,400 scheming all around young Egor who took all that in, and you 1961 01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:54,680 could see how it affected him because he spent his whole life 1962 01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:57,760 chasing the Iron Throne and fighting Blackwoods on a bigger 1963 01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:00,800 stage than any bracken before him ever had probably. 1964 01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:04,240 So this is the ultra competitive and ambitious lifestyle that he 1965 01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:09,480 was was brought into. And of course, we know that egg 1966 01:36:09,480 --> 01:36:11,840 on the 4th famously legitimized his bastards. 1967 01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:16,720 And his son, King Daron, was worried about what might happen, 1968 01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:18,400 right? The black fire bellies didn't 1969 01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:20,720 kick off for, you know, 12 years after Aegon's death. 1970 01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,080 And to maybe keep them at peace, he brought them closer together. 1971 01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:25,880 He's like, OK, I'm going to bring you all to court and you 1972 01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:28,120 can be next to each other. I can keep an eye on you. 1973 01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:32,440 That might have blackfired. I mean, backfired because it 1974 01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:35,520 might have been inevitable, but it it might not because Brendan 1975 01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:36,720 and Igor grew to hate each other. 1976 01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:39,000 I mean, they already kind of dead because they were primed to 1977 01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:40,240 because of their families, right? 1978 01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:41,760 It's like they, they probably hated each other before they 1979 01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:44,640 even met, Probably, you know, and they did meet his children. 1980 01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:47,040 So a lot of these decisions would have been made for them, 1981 01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:49,600 and then as they grew, you know that the more and more hate 1982 01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:50,800 would have been poured into their ears. 1983 01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:54,360 Even if Melissa wasn't telling Brendan to hate brackens or 1984 01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:57,240 whatever other Blackwoods probably did like she wasn't, 1985 01:36:57,240 --> 01:36:58,680 she was an exception. Not the rule. 1986 01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:03,760 Like not all Blackwoods are as beloved and, you know, amazingly 1987 01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:07,480 able to make friends with people who should be her enemies. 1988 01:37:07,480 --> 01:37:09,880 I wouldn't be surprised if Melissa was came close to 1989 01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:12,760 befriending Black Brackens, but even that didn't happen. 1990 01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,920 But she did befriend Nerys and Prince Eamon who you know, 1991 01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:19,960 despite her her lover, being terrible to them. 1992 01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:23,960 I bring up Melissa's popularity to point to yet another thing 1993 01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:25,080 that probably pissed off the brackets. 1994 01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:27,040 They're probably God. Why does she getting so far 1995 01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:29,680 She's so they all think she's so nice and friendly and blah blah 1996 01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:31,840 blah like what does she ever blah I hate, You know, she's 1997 01:37:32,440 --> 01:37:34,400 they would hate it. They would hate how popular she 1998 01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:35,960 was. You know, you could argue that 1999 01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:38,720 Megor, you know, obviously something like this isn't going 2000 01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:40,560 to have just one simple cause. Like Megor? 2001 01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:45,160 What do you mean? Well, yeah, when he no, I mean 2002 01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:47,440 when Aegon young worthy legitimize the sun. 2003 01:37:47,440 --> 01:37:50,800 Sorry. You know that arguably created 2004 01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:53,240 the civil war, right? But if the sons that were 2005 01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:57,240 legitimize had just been like holies and malesters, it might 2006 01:37:57,240 --> 01:37:59,240 not, right? Because it was black, black 2007 01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:03,280 woods and Brackens almost said. Almost did the brack woods and 2008 01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:03,880 blackens. Yeah. 2009 01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:06,520 It's so hard not to. Do that it It was this extra 2010 01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:10,320 factor that that stewed this pot into civil war that might, you 2011 01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:14,840 know, almost certainly was not going to happen if it wasn't for 2012 01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:18,320 all Aegon the Unworthy's actions, yes, but all the Aegons 2013 01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:22,280 unworthy actions might not have done it if it wasn't for also 2014 01:38:22,440 --> 01:38:26,000 the involvement of the Blackens in the Black and Brackens and 2015 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:27,800 their rivalry. We're getting worse than saying 2016 01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:29,080 it as the episode goes on. Yeah. 2017 01:38:29,480 --> 01:38:32,240 So yeah, I agree with you because I think it's arguably 2018 01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:34,200 the first black fire rebellion. What happened anyway? 2019 01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:37,360 Maybe because, but maybe not 'cause it was. 2020 01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:40,320 Bitter Steel, we're told, is the one that just kept talking in 2021 01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:42,280 Damon's ear. Pouring that poison in his ear, 2022 01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:45,560 they say that bitterness which he got from his family and so 2023 01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:48,840 much of it was over this feud, or that the the elements of feud 2024 01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:51,680 contained in this ambition. So maybe the first one still 2025 01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:54,960 happens, but I think the continuation second, third, 4th, 2026 01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,080 and maybe not the 5th. But of course 5th wouldn't have 2027 01:38:57,080 --> 01:38:59,760 happened without the 2nd, 3rd and 4th was because of Bitter 2028 01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:03,000 Steel's determination. Bitter Steel is the reason that 2029 01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:07,040 the rebellions kept happening. Without him there is no maybe 2030 01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:09,120 the second still happens because better still wasn't even 2031 01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:11,720 involved in that one. But the third, the 4th, probably 2032 01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:13,720 not the fifth. Like he's the reason and it's 2033 01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:16,880 his hatred of his brother and his loss of station and all 2034 01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:18,640 these other things that was such a big part of it because he all 2035 01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:22,280 they also competed over Sierra Seastar and she liked pitting 2036 01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:24,200 them against each other. She was kind of Aegon the 2037 01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:27,400 unworthy like and like he he he I like it when you two fight 2038 01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:32,640 over me. And yeah so all these different 2039 01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,280 things exacerbated their hate and it played out over the 2040 01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:38,560 Golden Company. Like none of these things might 2041 01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:42,280 not have happened without Bracken Blackwood feuding like 2042 01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:43,840 you said. If it was Mallister and Tully, 2043 01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:45,960 like, would this have gotten so charged? 2044 01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:48,960 I don't think so. Maybe the first one cause Damon 2045 01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:50,920 Blackfyre isn't either. He's not a Bracken or a 2046 01:39:50,920 --> 01:39:54,360 Blackwood and but he might not have rebelled without, you know, 2047 01:39:55,440 --> 01:39:57,440 at all. It's so it's so interesting to 2048 01:39:57,440 --> 01:40:01,440 think that the Bracken Blackwood feud might be a key element to 2049 01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:03,520 the black fire rebellions happening at all. 2050 01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:05,240 It's a pretty strong case for it. 2051 01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:10,360 And Bloodraven's attitude as a ruler, his ruthlessness, his 2052 01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:13,560 hardline attitude, like a lot of us, like the character and think 2053 01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:18,320 he was a decent guy but was too hard in some cases. 2054 01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:20,320 But some of that is that's upbringing. 2055 01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:22,520 He was raised in an era where there was black fires 2056 01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:25,320 everywhere. And you can't trust these black 2057 01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:28,680 fires like he he speaks about black fires the way that Jonas 2058 01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:31,080 Bracken speaks about Blackwood. You can't trust any blackfers. 2059 01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:32,320 They're all treacherous like that. 2060 01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:35,080 He pretty much does say that, you know or believes that. 2061 01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:41,280 And some of his ruling decisions were made seem to like over 2062 01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,720 overly focus on what Bitter Steele might do, even though 2063 01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:47,920 they were like clearer, more present threats happening like 2064 01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:51,840 on the mainland like that. He let those go because he was 2065 01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:55,000 more concerned with what Bitter Shield might do rather than what 2066 01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:59,200 he was doing. So yeah, that's so that's again 2067 01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:02,320 and again that's Bracken. Blackwood is mixed into that. 2068 01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:04,400 He doesn't just hate his brother because they're both Targaryen, 2069 01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:06,080 because they fought on the opposite sides of the civil War 2070 01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:08,000 and because of the Shierra and all these other things. 2071 01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:11,880 All of that was was fuelled by Bracken, Blackwood, hate. 2072 01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:14,800 All of those things are. That's the underpinning to it 2073 01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:16,880 all. That's the lowest level like 2074 01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:18,920 it's the most anchoring of the hatred. 2075 01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,960 It's the it's the farthest back you know out of all these 2076 01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:24,640 things. So I think a lot of Bloodraven's 2077 01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:27,480 ruthlessness comes from Bracken Blackwood feuding. 2078 01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:30,200 Not just his experience as a ruler not just the times he 2079 01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:33,160 lived in but does matter too. It's it's never just one thing I 2080 01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:37,400 don't think with with with grand like personality traits and long 2081 01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:40,720 term decision making moving forward to the Hedge Night era 2082 01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,560 Duncan Egger. Which of course still covers the 2083 01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:46,240 era of the lack of black fight rebellions 3 years prior to the 2084 01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:49,480 Hedge Night. The year two O 6, a fresh feud 2085 01:41:49,480 --> 01:41:52,360 between Bracken and Blackwood breaks out because Sir Offo, the 2086 01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,920 brood of Bracken slays Lord Quentin Blackwood during 2087 01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:58,440 attorney at King's Landing in front of everybody at the 2088 01:41:58,440 --> 01:42:00,000 Capitol where everyone's aware of it. 2089 01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:03,320 This isn't some like small tournament off in the in a 2090 01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:05,440 smaller house where maybe not everyone hears about it. 2091 01:42:05,440 --> 01:42:07,320 This is kind of famous. This is going to travel. 2092 01:42:07,320 --> 01:42:09,280 This is in a city with half a million people or so. 2093 01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:10,440 Everyone's going to talk about it. 2094 01:42:10,440 --> 01:42:11,880 Everyone already knows about the rivals. 2095 01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:15,600 It's going to pop off now those two are going to go at it again. 2096 01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:18,200 Everybody knows Bracken and Blackwood are going to go at it. 2097 01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:20,320 Dunk is aware of it. Dunk is a hedge knight. 2098 01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,920 He's a 16 year old hedge knight with no education and he's even 2099 01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:25,440 he knows about their famous feud. 2100 01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:28,240 It's specifically said, I mean he probably was told about it by 2101 01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:31,920 Sir Arlen of Penny Tree. Who that's that's relevant here. 2102 01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:36,240 Now Sir Otho's older brother would die during the great 2103 01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:39,640 Spring sickness which by the way was handled very unpopularly by 2104 01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:43,000 the Blackwood Hand Blood Raven. So we had a Lord Bracken hand 2105 01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:46,160 under egg and the unworthy and now a Blackwood hand you know 30 2106 01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:51,280 years later ish So Stefan Fossaway of all people one of 2107 01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:53,320 the Fossaway knight. I mean one of the the the crappy 2108 01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:56,680 one who turns on Dunk. He's musing about who they might 2109 01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:58,840 get to fight on their side. This is of course before he 2110 01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:01,320 switches sides. He's like who can your six 2111 01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:03,600 companions be? You should ask Brackens and 2112 01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:05,720 Blackwoods though you'll never get both of them on the same 2113 01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:08,880 side. It's like comes up multiple 2114 01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,280 times in the early in the Hedge Night, the feud comes up. 2115 01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:14,160 Then two years later after the Hedge Night, when we're in the 2116 01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:17,960 sworn Sword, Otho's father is dying, right? 2117 01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:19,600 So Otho is the heir and his father is dying. 2118 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:22,680 So everyone knows that Otho is going to become the Lord of of 2119 01:43:22,680 --> 01:43:26,800 Stonehedge Septon, Sefton says. Oh, that's probably going to 2120 01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,480 lead to war. Septon, Sefton sitting here 2121 01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:34,000 stand fast, deep in the reach, dealing with this issue between 2122 01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:38,000 Dunk and Lady Webber and Eustace Osgrey. 2123 01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:42,360 And he just throws out this bit about Blackwoods and brackens 2124 01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:44,840 are probably going to war soon. You know, it's a he's gossiping 2125 01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:46,040 and this is the thing that comes up. 2126 01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:49,640 He also suggests Bloodraven's prejudice is a problem here. 2127 01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:53,360 He's like, he will he never. Like Brackens are come to him 2128 01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:55,560 and ask to like speak to him and he just won't see them. 2129 01:43:56,160 --> 01:43:57,840 You know, it's like, well, that's not a good way to rule. 2130 01:43:57,840 --> 01:44:00,680 Like there's constituents they see still needs to like deal 2131 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:04,080 with their issues. Unless they're just coming to 2132 01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:06,920 complain about some nonsense you know that isn't a real issue. 2133 01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:09,240 Maybe he's stonewalling them because they don't have a real 2134 01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:10,880 complaint. It's hard to know what the real 2135 01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:12,000 is. Is he being biased, or are they 2136 01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:13,040 being biased? Or both. 2137 01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:14,840 We don't know. Septon's probably a little 2138 01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:16,960 biased towards the juicy gossip, but also. 2139 01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:20,360 What it's worth, I agree. But still, when he wants to tell 2140 01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:26,160 the juicy gossip it's Black Blackwood juicy gossip he wants 2141 01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:28,000 to get into, yeah. So it's great. 2142 01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:31,560 So this brings us to the village hero, which might be the next 2143 01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:33,840 Duncan Egg story, right? It would be the 4th one. 2144 01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:35,320 The war's not mentioned in The Mystery Night. 2145 01:44:35,320 --> 01:44:37,080 So when the mystery Night happens, and there's no mention 2146 01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:38,960 of whether the Brackens and Blackens actually went to war 2147 01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,160 over this, it's possible that his father still hadn't died 2148 01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:42,560 yet. I I do want to point out by the 2149 01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:47,280 way that the, you know, Makar didn't become the brute of 2150 01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:50,440 Targaryens right when he killed his own brother. 2151 01:44:50,600 --> 01:44:53,920 So that's true whether there was something particular brutish 2152 01:44:53,960 --> 01:44:57,480 that Otho did or if it's just to to push the rivalry more. 2153 01:44:57,480 --> 01:45:00,120 But I I think it is noteworthy that when someone's called the 2154 01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:04,160 brute of whatever, they're probably not a good guy, you 2155 01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:05,880 know? Yeah, that's actually a great 2156 01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:08,360 point Sean, because that's how that that that anecdote is 2157 01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:10,960 mentioned at the beginning of the hedge night, how Otho stove 2158 01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:14,480 in Quinton Blackwood's helm with I think either a Mace or a 2159 01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:16,160 blunted axe. And that's pretty much what 2160 01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:18,600 happened to Baylor with Makar and his at Mace. 2161 01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:21,000 So it is kind of like a it was almost maybe it was almost meant 2162 01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,720 as foreshadowing in that sense because it's it also started 2163 01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:27,000 disputes like the death of Baylor caused a lot of problems. 2164 01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:29,600 You know, just like the death of Otho or death of Quinton 2165 01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:30,760 Blackwood caused a lot of problems. 2166 01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:36,280 So Nina has a great theory or with some permutations that this 2167 01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:41,000 village hero story will be how we first of all meet black Betha 2168 01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:45,080 Eggs future wife, and how it will involve Penny Tree, the 2169 01:45:45,080 --> 01:45:47,920 village that Dunk's former master is from. 2170 01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:49,480 Penny Tree sits between the teats. 2171 01:45:49,480 --> 01:45:52,640 It's the village that rests in that region, and it's probably 2172 01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:56,600 traded back and forth many times, but no longer, because 2173 01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:59,920 it's now a royal thief. Neither Bracket or Blackwood 2174 01:45:59,920 --> 01:46:02,080 will ever fight over it again as long as it remains like that. 2175 01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:03,320 Because it's it's owned by the Crown. 2176 01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:07,520 Quite possibly because the Crown was tired of them fighting. 2177 01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:10,440 It was like, no, it's ours now. Neither of you can have it. 2178 01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:12,040 Who made that decision, by the way? 2179 01:46:12,080 --> 01:46:15,160 We're not sure, We don't know. But it was in this era. 2180 01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:16,760 It was a route. It was in. 2181 01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:19,800 It might have been by Bloodraven, he might have, which 2182 01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:22,520 that would have been a a neutral decision, you know, like that. 2183 01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:24,480 Maybe. Maybe because maybe he took it. 2184 01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:29,160 He took it from the Brackens and said, OK, now it's nobody's, but 2185 01:46:29,480 --> 01:46:32,040 it would fit perfectly if that's what happened, you know, 2186 01:46:32,120 --> 01:46:34,120 something like that, if if Bloodraven did it, or maybe the 2187 01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:36,360 hand right before him or or something like that. 2188 01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:39,920 You know an interesting little Another old parallel anecdote 2189 01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:45,880 with the Hatfields and Mccoys is at one point there was a trial I 2190 01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:47,640 I might be mixing up who was on what side. 2191 01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:50,680 But I think that one of the Mccoys was on trial for having 2192 01:46:50,680 --> 01:46:53,960 murdered one of the Hatfields and the judge was trying to keep 2193 01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:57,520 things balanced. So he had the jury be 6 Hatfield 2194 01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:00,680 and six Mccoys except he was a Hatfield himself. 2195 01:47:00,680 --> 01:47:03,800 So God, really keep that balance, but. 2196 01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,280 And that's that that makes sense here because that's the problem 2197 01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:09,800 here. Like there's lots of people that 2198 01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:12,440 will have Bracken or Blackwood or both blood and in like in 2199 01:47:12,440 --> 01:47:15,360 their recent family history. And it's like, well, you can't 2200 01:47:15,480 --> 01:47:17,440 go that far without finding some. 2201 01:47:17,440 --> 01:47:19,320 It's hard to find something that's completely neutral, 2202 01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:21,520 right? Like Like within the fandom, 2203 01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:23,360 like most people favor Blackwoods, right. 2204 01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:25,960 So that's just goes to show that most people would probably pick 2205 01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:28,720 Blackwoods and that's maybe in the world they would too. 2206 01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:30,600 Or maybe in certain different times of history they might pick 2207 01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:32,760 Bracken because of like religious reasons like, oh those 2208 01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:34,880 Blackwoods worship the old gods. I prefer the brackets, blah 2209 01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:36,560 blah, blah. Lots of different things. 2210 01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:39,080 Where the bias would be, it's almost straightforward. 2211 01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:40,800 But the but the point is there would be bias. 2212 01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:43,200 Yeah. So Jamie and Hoster Blackwood 2213 01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:46,040 spend the night at Penny tree. It's like they're talking about 2214 01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:50,480 bracken Blackwood conflict as they pass through the teats this 2215 01:47:50,480 --> 01:47:54,960 most disputed of lands between them and that just kind of adds 2216 01:47:54,960 --> 01:47:58,880 some fun to the whole scene that they're actually in the zone of 2217 01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:01,600 conflict while discussing the conflict or the history of it. 2218 01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:08,200 And so Nina's idea is that Autho Bracken will Marshall an army 2219 01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:11,440 and take the teats by force, and that will cause this to be a 2220 01:48:11,440 --> 01:48:12,960 problem. And the people of Penny Tree 2221 01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:15,080 will be caught in the middle. And the reason Dunk will want to 2222 01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:18,160 go there is because his master's from Penny Tree and he will want 2223 01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:21,080 to help the people of Penny Tree and then Dunk will get eggs. 2224 01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:26,560 Royal blood will be involved somehow and who knows, but it 2225 01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:28,840 it's a great idea. Obviously there's no we don't 2226 01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:30,280 know that. It's not like George has said 2227 01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:33,560 this, but. But yeah, it would be a great 2228 01:48:33,560 --> 01:48:38,080 way for him to flesh out some of this history and still have this 2229 01:48:38,480 --> 01:48:40,960 relatively simple story with Duncan egg compared to the 2230 01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,040 expansive stories he's got in the main book series. 2231 01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:45,480 And again, just bring back what I said at the start of this 2232 01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:48,080 section. His future wife is Betha 2233 01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:50,960 Blackwood. And having them meet early on, 2234 01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,200 like, rather than meeting later, 'cause they fall in love. 2235 01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:54,880 Like they're they fall in love and get married and it's like, 2236 01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:55,920 yeah, OK, go ahead and get married. 2237 01:48:55,920 --> 01:48:57,960 Y'all, we don't care. You're so far down the line of 2238 01:48:57,960 --> 01:48:59,840 succession. Blackwoods used to be kings. 2239 01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:03,160 This is this is sufficiently prestigious and we don't need it 2240 01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:04,800 to be overly political. So yeah, go ahead. 2241 01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:08,160 Of course that changed, and the brackens were probably very 2242 01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:10,520 pissed about. That's like, hi, Blackwood 2243 01:49:10,520 --> 01:49:16,120 queen, damn it, we wanted that. But that's much later. 2244 01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:19,800 And meanwhile, there's more Blackfyre rebellioning happening 2245 01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:22,480 after the village hero and before the village hero 2246 01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:26,040 Bloodraven and Bitter Steel's feud plays out through the next 2247 01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:27,760 several black fire rebellions. Of course not. 2248 01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:30,840 In counting the second, which we see through Duncan egg, Igor 2249 01:49:32,080 --> 01:49:35,160 Rivers decided not to participate with Damon the 2250 01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:38,200 Second's rebellion. But he fully supported the third 2251 01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:39,920 rebellion, and that was a close run thing. 2252 01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:43,240 Igor was captured and Bloodraven wanted him executed. 2253 01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:46,280 He's like kill that guy and and the king was like, no, that's 2254 01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:48,640 kin slaying. He's my kin as well. 2255 01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:52,880 We'll send it to the wall and then the exciting, well, 2256 01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:56,800 probably exciting Daring Commando raid where Bitter Steel 2257 01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:58,320 is rescued on the way to the wall. 2258 01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:00,320 Like, what the hell, That's so awesome. 2259 01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:07,680 But also so like Bitter Steel. Bloodray was like I told you to 2260 01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:10,960 kill him. I said so, like see that which 2261 01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:13,680 just made him mad and made him suspect there were or not 2262 01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:17,800 suspect, but remind him that there were Blackfyre spies at 2263 01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:20,720 court that were. That's how this commando raid 2264 01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:22,520 was pulled off. Presumably they knew what ship 2265 01:50:22,520 --> 01:50:23,920 it was. They had to have inside 2266 01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:25,280 information to be able to do that. 2267 01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:31,720 So, well, whatever Blood Ravens deal with the Brackens was, he 2268 01:50:31,720 --> 01:50:34,880 didn't like, extirpate them. He didn't have them like wiped 2269 01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:36,760 out while he was handed the king, So he didn't. 2270 01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:40,040 He might have been unfair to them, but he didn't like fully 2271 01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:43,520 go like full blown like mad King type stuff here. 2272 01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:49,320 So this was just quite a thing for me, like using this as a as 2273 01:50:49,320 --> 01:50:53,680 a touchstone moment, as a key, as a most maybe the best example 2274 01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:57,000 of Bracken Blackwood outside of their own region is the Black 2275 01:50:57,000 --> 01:51:00,680 Fire rebellions. But let's move on because we 2276 01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:02,280 have A Song of Ice and Fire to talk about. 2277 01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:05,640 That's perhaps the juiciest part in between A Song of Ice and 2278 01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:08,160 Fire and the end of the Blackfyre Rebellions, Sort of. 2279 01:51:08,200 --> 01:51:09,800 I think the fifth one came after Summerhall. 2280 01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:12,360 But Summerhall, big deal, right? That was a huge event. 2281 01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:15,320 Would the Brackens have, like, quietly celebrated the death of 2282 01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:18,200 all those Blackwood children? They were Targaryens also, but 2283 01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:20,000 they were. There's a lot of Blackwood 2284 01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:22,760 Targaryens there that all died. And they might have been like 2285 01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:25,920 he, he, we we won't, we won't celebrate openly. 2286 01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:27,400 But he He. Yeah, I don't know if it's a 2287 01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:30,520 question of if they would have quietly celebrated or not. 2288 01:51:30,520 --> 01:51:32,720 It's a question of whether or not they would have celebrated 2289 01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:34,400 quietly or not. Yeah, they might not have. 2290 01:51:34,480 --> 01:51:36,480 They've been like, yeah, it's party time. 2291 01:51:36,480 --> 01:51:38,920 We want some. Yeah, let's, let's light some 2292 01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:41,440 fires in honor of all those dead Blackwoods. 2293 01:51:41,440 --> 01:51:44,800 Yeah. But on the other hand, Aries 2294 01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:49,200 became king, you know, a couple years after Summer Hall because 2295 01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:50,840 Jaharis the Second didn't live very long. 2296 01:51:51,080 --> 01:51:53,240 And Rayella was his sister. Right. 2297 01:51:53,240 --> 01:51:55,520 So they were children. They're still grandchildren of 2298 01:51:55,520 --> 01:51:58,560 Beth Blackwood and of course, Jaharis ruling for a couple 2299 01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:00,280 years. That's the son of with his 2300 01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:02,840 sister, wife. They were black, half Blackwood, 2301 01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:06,000 so it still was a Blackwood king and queen right there for a 2302 01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:08,000 minute. But they don't call themselves 2303 01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:09,360 Blackwoods. Maybe the Brackens can kind of 2304 01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:11,400 like pretend that's not the case. 2305 01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:15,040 But yeah, let's let's let's move on to the actual Song of Ice and 2306 01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:16,560 Fire thing. It comes up so often. 2307 01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:18,920 At the beginning of this episode we talked about how it's a 2308 01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:22,200 weathervane or a wedge or like the the key point of emphasis. 2309 01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,480 You're going to see so many examples of that bracken and 2310 01:52:25,480 --> 01:52:27,320 black and agree on something. It's a big deal. 2311 01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:29,680 Everyone knows that the Brackens and Blackwoods hate each other, 2312 01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:33,440 so everyone knows that if they agree on something, it must mean 2313 01:52:33,440 --> 01:52:35,560 be meaningful. And because they prioritize 2314 01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:39,520 their shared animosity so much, it can be used to undermine any 2315 01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:41,520 alliance they're a part of. That's the Wedge, the 2316 01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:42,800 Weathervane and the Wedge, right? 2317 01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:46,120 Tywin experienced it prior to A Song of Ice and Fire when he was 2318 01:52:46,120 --> 01:52:50,680 Hand, because one time he ruled for the Blackwoods in some 2319 01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:53,800 particular dispute over a mill. Of course, it's just some mill, 2320 01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:56,760 some small piece of land. Thankfully, they didn't go to 2321 01:52:56,760 --> 01:52:59,360 war over it, apparently. Apparently Tywin rules for the 2322 01:52:59,360 --> 01:53:02,480 Blackwoods, but Aries is like, Nah, I'm giving it to the 2323 01:53:02,480 --> 01:53:04,880 Blackwoods or to the Brackens. It's like, you know, I'm just 2324 01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:06,160 going to do that. Even though that's his 2325 01:53:06,200 --> 01:53:08,520 grandparents, he didn't seem to care about that. 2326 01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:10,960 He just, he just wanted to overrule Tywin. 2327 01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:12,080 That was his thing. So. 2328 01:53:12,320 --> 01:53:13,920 That's a pretty young rivalry there. 2329 01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:19,080 Yes, yes, that's true. And it's a so it's a It's a 2330 01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:21,200 backdrop as well for a completely unrelated drama that 2331 01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:25,120 happened around the same time Hoster Tully was distracted the 2332 01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:28,200 night that Peter and Catelyn and Lysa got drunk. 2333 01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:31,240 And Peter thinks he slept with Catelyn but actually slept with 2334 01:53:31,240 --> 01:53:33,320 Lisa. We don't need to know what 2335 01:53:33,320 --> 01:53:35,120 actually happened that night. That's a whole nother story. 2336 01:53:35,120 --> 01:53:37,720 What actually what transpired with Catelyn and Lisa and and 2337 01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:40,560 and how that all that had such a big impact on the future of 2338 01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:42,080 several of some device to fire flatlines. 2339 01:53:42,520 --> 01:53:46,360 Why was Hoster distracted? Why did he go off in private, 2340 01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:49,120 allowing the kids to drink because no one was supervising 2341 01:53:49,120 --> 01:53:52,840 them because it was Lord Bracken and Lord Blackwood arguing. 2342 01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:55,440 And this it got to such a point where he had to take him in 2343 01:53:55,480 --> 01:53:58,720 private because it was such a big argument, because these two 2344 01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:02,120 just can't resolve their differences without the backdrop 2345 01:54:02,120 --> 01:54:03,760 of thousands of years of feuding. 2346 01:54:04,280 --> 01:54:06,240 And this is what hospitality was having to deal with. 2347 01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:10,480 So while they're off in their backroom resolving this dispute, 2348 01:54:10,480 --> 01:54:14,000 the kids get drunk and A Song of Ice and Fire ground work is 2349 01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,280 late. Yeah. 2350 01:54:16,480 --> 01:54:21,320 That was a a memory that Lysa was like talking to Sansa about. 2351 01:54:21,480 --> 01:54:24,640 Yeah, she was just like, she was just like trauma dumping. 2352 01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:26,560 And Sansa's like, I wasn't born yet. 2353 01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:28,160 Like what? She's like, were you there when 2354 01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:29,960 I was doing? She's like, do you remember 2355 01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:31,600 that? And Sansa's like, is she drunk 2356 01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:32,960 or crazy? It's like I was. 2357 01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:39,000 I wasn't born yet, man. Yeah, so yeah and but yeah, but 2358 01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:42,520 she specifically mentions Lord Blackwood and Lord Bracken with 2359 01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:45,680 their dispute, which might have been Titos and and Jonos, but 2360 01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:47,440 maybe not 'cause it was long enough ago. 2361 01:54:47,440 --> 01:54:48,960 That might have been one of their fathers or something. 2362 01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:51,280 Who knows. Either way, Let's talk about the 2363 01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:53,920 Kingdom of North and Rivers, which definitely involves Titus 2364 01:54:53,920 --> 01:54:55,960 and Jonas Jar. Jar Martin has given us a 2365 01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:59,560 substantial enough history that we can see patterns and concepts 2366 01:54:59,720 --> 01:55:01,720 like history repeating itself multiple times. 2367 01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:04,280 It's one of the values of having such a long history as being 2368 01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:06,560 able to show these things and see how they play out and maybe 2369 01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:09,200 show you, which also enables him to give you the occasional 2370 01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:13,040 exception to these rules. It also allows for cautionary 2371 01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,560 tales. Yeah, Don't make the same 2372 01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:16,960 mistake these other people made, you know? 2373 01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:19,320 Yeah, and that's a that's a very good point to raise for this 2374 01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:22,160 particular topic. Prior to the Iron Throne, when 2375 01:55:22,160 --> 01:55:24,560 the kings were mostly separate, as we saw, the Riverlands was 2376 01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:26,680 conquered in succession by the Stormlands and then the 2377 01:55:26,680 --> 01:55:28,440 Ironborn. And before that there had been 2378 01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:31,320 no continuity over the eons as different Riverlanders houses 2379 01:55:31,320 --> 01:55:34,560 had risen to the top only to fall after a few 100 years or 2380 01:55:34,560 --> 01:55:36,800 less. So again, I repeat the earlier 2381 01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:39,640 point that the Riverlands hasn't had stability at the top like 2382 01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:44,440 all the other regions have, and Song of Ice and Fire brings us 2383 01:55:44,440 --> 01:55:47,560 right into that cycle with Rob forming the Kingdom of the North 2384 01:55:47,560 --> 01:55:49,080 and Rivers. That's a Kingdom that's never 2385 01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:50,760 existed. This isn't rebuilding some Old 2386 01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:52,680 Kingdom. There had never been a Kingdom 2387 01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:54,720 of North and Rivers before. That was completely. 2388 01:55:54,720 --> 01:55:57,920 New There was rivers and hills at one point, right? 2389 01:55:58,000 --> 01:56:00,920 Yeah, this is a new, new way to carve it up you. 2390 01:56:01,240 --> 01:56:05,160 Know we see this life cycle of a dynasty play out in kind of a 2391 01:56:05,160 --> 01:56:07,000 short time. Like there's only ever at this 2392 01:56:07,000 --> 01:56:09,240 point we've only had one king of the North and Rivers. 2393 01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:12,640 And that may not happen again. Maybe it will. 2394 01:56:12,640 --> 01:56:14,200 Maybe it'll rise again by the end of the book. 2395 01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:17,080 Maybe by the end of the series. That's what it'll be. 2396 01:56:17,080 --> 01:56:18,280 It'll be the King of North and Rivers. 2397 01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:21,800 We won't have to. We won't have any guarantee that 2398 01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:25,400 it'll stay like that. We're not going to have a view 2399 01:56:25,400 --> 01:56:27,160 into it's. It's like 100 years after the 2400 01:56:27,160 --> 01:56:29,520 books are over, probably. I'm holding out hope, Yeah, I'm 2401 01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:30,400 holding out hope. Me too. 2402 01:56:30,400 --> 01:56:31,040 Me too. Me too. 2403 01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:31,960 I'm right there with you, brother. 2404 01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:35,560 Like all these other Riverlands kingdoms of old, Rob's didn't 2405 01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:37,280 seem to last. It technically hasn't fallen, 2406 01:56:37,280 --> 01:56:38,640 but it's not doing so well, is it? 2407 01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:40,440 It's it's not. It's hanging on by a thread. 2408 01:56:40,440 --> 01:56:43,040 If it's if it exists at all, I'm not sure you could say it still 2409 01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:45,280 exists. And again, the Bracken Blackwood 2410 01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:46,760 feud is at the heart of all this. 2411 01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:49,000 Before, after, and during Rob's Kingdom. 2412 01:56:49,120 --> 01:56:52,200 I mean, when the Riverlands and Lords of the North meet after 2413 01:56:52,200 --> 01:56:54,760 Ned's execution in Catlin's final chapter in the Game of 2414 01:56:54,760 --> 01:56:58,440 Thrones, she notes that Lord Jonas Bracken sits as far away 2415 01:56:58,440 --> 01:57:00,440 from Lord Blackwood as possible. Quote. 2416 01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:05,440 Jason Mallister pointed out, Let them bide their time, denying 2417 01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:08,520 Lord Tywin fresh levees and provisions while they 2418 01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:12,160 strengthened their defenses and rested their weary troops. 2419 01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:14,680 Lord Blackwood would have none of it. 2420 01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:17,800 They should finish the work they began in the Whispering Wood 2421 01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:21,160 March to Harrenhal and bring Roose Bolton's army down as 2422 01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:24,240 well. Blackwood urged Bracken, 2423 01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:27,760 opposed. As ever Lord John O's Bracken 2424 01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:31,240 rose, to insist they ought pledge their fealty to King 2425 01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:35,760 Renly and move South to join their might to his. 2426 01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:42,240 Catelyn suggests pretty clearly that that's why he did it, Like 2427 01:57:42,240 --> 01:57:46,760 that's from her thought process. She immediately suspects his 2428 01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:50,120 suggestion is because it's the opposite of what Bracken said. 2429 01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:54,120 It might just be, you know, a good idea that Bracken has that 2430 01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:56,280 thinks it's totally valid. It might have nothing to do with 2431 01:57:56,280 --> 01:57:58,840 what Blackwood but everyone just assumes. 2432 01:57:59,160 --> 01:58:01,800 And they might be right because it is a such a common recurring 2433 01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:04,280 thing. So surprise, surprise, it plays 2434 01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:06,400 out there. So their opposition is the wedge 2435 01:58:06,640 --> 01:58:08,320 everyone. It's it sets the stage for 2436 01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:11,800 Catelyn's musings and her internal monologue of OK, these 2437 01:58:11,800 --> 01:58:14,520 two are against each other. So when they agree on something 2438 01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:18,640 it it, it drops the hammer of oh OK this is something that 2439 01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:20,920 they're together on after all this disagreement even they are 2440 01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:22,800 together. So both of these these are both 2441 01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:26,440 valid ideas like March to Harrenhal, bring Roos Summers 2442 01:58:26,480 --> 01:58:28,120 out. Like that's a valid strategy. 2443 01:58:29,120 --> 01:58:31,680 Joining King Renly, that makes sense too. 2444 01:58:31,680 --> 01:58:33,920 Like Renly might treat them better like they don't want to 2445 01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:35,880 fight with Joffrey. There that's that's the enemy of 2446 01:58:35,880 --> 01:58:38,400 my enemy is my friend. They have no quarrel with King 2447 01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:41,440 Renly so why not make him an. These are these are valid 2448 01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:45,160 strategic suggestions. So, like, it's hard to decide 2449 01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:47,280 whether he's making that suggestion. 2450 01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:50,040 So it just adds a lot of baggage that their hatred of each other 2451 01:58:50,040 --> 01:58:52,000 just adds baggage to this situation. 2452 01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:53,720 We're like, well, is he saying that because he thinks it's a 2453 01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:56,360 good idea or is he saying it because it's the opposite of 2454 01:58:56,360 --> 01:58:58,920 what the what is what he this guy he hates is saying. 2455 01:58:58,920 --> 01:59:00,360 It's just kind of, it makes it all confusing. 2456 01:59:00,360 --> 01:59:03,640 And so this is another example of just how the few just throws 2457 01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:06,680 things off. It's are these allies worth it? 2458 01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:10,280 Well, yeah, they are, but with caution. 2459 01:59:11,160 --> 01:59:13,640 Another thing is, it makes either decision a little more 2460 01:59:13,640 --> 01:59:16,160 difficult now because you know you're going to have one faction 2461 01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:18,680 adamantly against it. Yeah, whenever One of those 2462 01:59:18,680 --> 01:59:21,640 options you choose, right? And if they make their case, 2463 01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:23,200 well, then a bunch of people will join them. 2464 01:59:23,200 --> 01:59:25,120 And just on the strength of that argument, even though that the 2465 01:59:25,120 --> 01:59:27,760 strength of that argument is more fueled by opposition to 2466 01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:30,080 their rival than just good strategic sense. 2467 01:59:30,720 --> 01:59:33,640 So their division corrupts everything around them. 2468 01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:38,280 It it infects decisions, ideas, support for those ideas. 2469 01:59:38,280 --> 01:59:41,720 And who's motivated to have those ideas in the 1st place. 2470 01:59:41,720 --> 01:59:44,200 Everything is questionable. Like just throw so many things 2471 01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,440 off. Then Catelyn makes her move in 2472 01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:49,400 this scene, this very powerful scene, she argues for peace. 2473 01:59:50,160 --> 01:59:53,200 She's like, look, Ned won't come back. 2474 01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:56,600 This war, it it's not a great idea. 2475 01:59:56,720 --> 01:59:58,000 Can we even win it? Blah, blah, blah. 2476 01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:01,520 She makes her point and the Weathervane makes its appearance 2477 02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:06,600 and it's pointing directly away from her 'cause, even blackened 2478 02:00:06,600 --> 02:00:10,240 and Dang it. Even Bracken and Blackwood 2479 02:00:10,360 --> 02:00:13,240 disagree with her together. She's particularly horrified 2480 02:00:13,240 --> 02:00:15,200 that they're both against her. She's like, oh God, I can't, 2481 02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:16,480 That's it. I've lost. 2482 02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:18,520 My argument is over. Bracket and Blackwood are 2483 02:00:18,520 --> 02:00:19,600 against me together. That's it. 2484 02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:23,840 She is their common enemy. Like they rarely are the common. 2485 02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:25,720 They rarely unite against a common enemy but that. 2486 02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:28,040 But in this argument, she is that common enemy. 2487 02:00:28,040 --> 02:00:30,360 And like, oh God, I've brought them together against me. 2488 02:00:30,360 --> 02:00:31,880 That's it. I can't win this argument now. 2489 02:00:32,080 --> 02:00:35,360 And indeed she can't. Next thing you know, King of the 2490 02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:37,640 North, King of the North, King of the North, right? 2491 02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:39,960 Even Bracket and Blackwood are there, right? 2492 02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:42,160 Slaying their swords side by side like Dang. 2493 02:00:42,440 --> 02:00:44,360 Moving forward to the Battle of the Fords. 2494 02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:49,160 George uses this device again. When Ed Muir is telling Catelyn 2495 02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:52,720 his plan for the Battle of Fords where he blocks Tywin's 2496 02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:56,520 crossing, it comes up quote. Plan's a good one, he concluded. 2497 02:00:56,840 --> 02:00:59,040 Lord Tito says so, and Lord Jonas as well. 2498 02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:01,960 When did Blackwood and Bracken agree about anything that was 2499 02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:05,800 not certain, I ask you. Be that as it may, she was 2500 02:01:05,800 --> 02:01:10,680 suddenly weary. Perhaps she was wrong to oppose 2501 02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:12,920 him. The actual battle plan was good, 2502 02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:14,440 it turns out. It just wasn't maybe the right 2503 02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:18,640 idea to do it in the 1st place because of Rob's other plan, 2504 02:01:18,640 --> 02:01:20,400 grander plan, which he didn't communicate very well. 2505 02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:23,960 But whatever. That aside, it's neat to see 2506 02:01:23,960 --> 02:01:27,880 here that the way that he convinces his sister is by 2507 02:01:27,880 --> 02:01:29,880 saying Bracken and Blackwood agreed on it. 2508 02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:33,480 He doesn't describe the merit. He's like, This is why it'll 2509 02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:35,000 work. It's like Bracken and Blackwood 2510 02:01:35,000 --> 02:01:35,960 agreed on it. Boom. 2511 02:01:36,520 --> 02:01:37,560 Right. Sealed. 2512 02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:39,600 Sealed. That's a Clash of Kings, right? 2513 02:01:39,600 --> 02:01:41,600 So that all happens in the Clash of Kings kind of near the end. 2514 02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:45,960 And it works. He's he drives Tywin back and by 2515 02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:49,640 A Storm of Swords bracket and Blackwood are two of the seven 2516 02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:53,360 Lords who helped with Lord Hosur's funeral boat, so they're 2517 02:01:54,040 --> 02:01:55,920 at the top and as usual, they're mentioned side by side. 2518 02:01:55,920 --> 02:01:59,000 The Lords are named Bracket and Blackwood side by side as usual. 2519 02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:01,000 But yeah, and so yeah, she starts. 2520 02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:03,840 She has this instinct to argue back, like be that as it may, 2521 02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:07,120 oh, never mind. I'll never argue you out of it. 2522 02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:08,720 If Bracket and Black would agree, you know. 2523 02:02:09,880 --> 02:02:12,960 But she even considered that maybe it's even right if black. 2524 02:02:13,000 --> 02:02:14,360 You know, never mind my argument. 2525 02:02:14,360 --> 02:02:15,160 Maybe they're just. Right. 2526 02:02:15,160 --> 02:02:16,080 It swayed her. Yeah. 2527 02:02:16,080 --> 02:02:17,360 It's like, wow, even they agree, huh? 2528 02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:20,720 Dang. So yeah, it carries a lot of 2529 02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:23,120 weight when they agree. And that makes sense. 2530 02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:25,240 Like when two people hate each other that much, it does mean 2531 02:02:25,240 --> 02:02:26,440 something. When they can get over their 2532 02:02:26,440 --> 02:02:28,160 hate to agree on something, it does kind of. 2533 02:02:28,240 --> 02:02:29,720 It does sort of emphasize the point. 2534 02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:32,440 And this is the literary device George has created by creating, 2535 02:02:32,440 --> 02:02:34,200 having this feud that's so charged. 2536 02:02:34,680 --> 02:02:40,680 It's it's lens emphasis or credibility or what have you 2537 02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:44,160 wait to it being thrown around. It's really well done, really 2538 02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:45,320 clever. I never thought about it as a 2539 02:02:45,320 --> 02:02:46,960 literary device as much as it was. 2540 02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:48,680 I just thought about it as world building and I was like, ah, 2541 02:02:48,680 --> 02:02:50,520 it's really, it's both. George used it so cleverly. 2542 02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:52,600 It's both. And I'm not sure how well, how 2543 02:02:52,600 --> 02:02:55,720 much he's conscious of that, like because we've as we've the 2544 02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:57,720 more we've gotten to know George, he's just like a savant 2545 02:02:57,720 --> 02:02:59,680 with some of these things. He just does it without thinking 2546 02:02:59,680 --> 02:03:02,800 about it. I've even had a little bit of a 2547 02:03:02,800 --> 02:03:05,960 thought that it's that it's and I don't want to be. 2548 02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:08,040 It's going to sound negative at first, but I don't mean it to be 2549 02:03:08,040 --> 02:03:11,440 that it's a little unrealistic for this feud to have lasted so 2550 02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:14,200 long, right? For, especially when it has had 2551 02:03:14,200 --> 02:03:17,200 breaks like when what was his name? 2552 02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:18,360 The. The Justice Guy. 2553 02:03:18,360 --> 02:03:19,000 The. Justman. 2554 02:03:19,760 --> 02:03:20,320 Just men. Yeah. 2555 02:03:20,360 --> 02:03:23,440 You know like seemed to rally them together and there's been 2556 02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:28,200 these changing of of guards and overlords and and and even just 2557 02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:31,040 the natural like I don't know diseases that come and go 2558 02:03:31,040 --> 02:03:33,360 passage it. It seems like for this much 2559 02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:35,160 time. Yeah even at Hatfields and 2560 02:03:35,160 --> 02:03:37,840 Mccoys that only lasted like 50 years like it. 2561 02:03:38,160 --> 02:03:42,960 And it's so it's crazy for a few to have lasted this long for a 2562 02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:45,400 million reasons. Not just the feud itself but 2563 02:03:45,400 --> 02:03:48,400 just like the people to survive this amount of time for houses 2564 02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:50,880 to live this long is kind of unique but to survive with the 2565 02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:53,280 few. But even if it is a little 2566 02:03:53,280 --> 02:03:56,880 unrealistic, it's worth it for the literary device, for the 2567 02:03:56,920 --> 02:03:59,760 storytelling elements that George gets out of this, that 2568 02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:03,040 where this rural building like you said, or this device to let 2569 02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:07,000 us know when you know when these two people do agree it's 2570 02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:10,440 significance here or you know when they because they don't 2571 02:04:10,440 --> 02:04:12,360 agree. Everyone has to work around that 2572 02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:14,680 it. It really flushes things out in 2573 02:04:14,680 --> 02:04:17,960 a lot of ways that he couldn't do with the rivalry that was 2574 02:04:17,960 --> 02:04:21,320 just one generation old. Yeah, that wouldn't carry such 2575 02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:23,680 way. Like, yeah, he just like George 2576 02:04:23,680 --> 02:04:26,000 turned the dial up to 11 like he does with a lot of things. 2577 02:04:26,000 --> 02:04:29,000 In order to give that weight to them, let's move forward to 2578 02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:32,240 after the Red Wedding and start with a quote. 2579 02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:36,400 The River Lords are no fools, the Queen argued. 2580 02:04:36,600 --> 02:04:40,200 Without the North Men, they cannot hope to stand against the 2581 02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:44,600 combined power of Highgarden, Casterly Rock and Dorn. 2582 02:04:44,960 --> 02:04:47,760 Surely they will choose submission rather than 2583 02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:52,280 destruction. Most agreed Lord Tywin River Run 2584 02:04:52,280 --> 02:04:55,800 remains, but so long as Walter Frey holds Emer totally hostage, 2585 02:04:55,800 --> 02:04:57,520 the Blackfish dare not melt a threat. 2586 02:04:58,160 --> 02:05:01,040 Jason Mallister and Titus Blackwood will fight on for 2587 02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:04,240 Honor's sake, but Afraid can keep the Mallisters pinned up at 2588 02:05:04,240 --> 02:05:07,680 sea guard and with the right inducement, Jonas Bracken can be 2589 02:05:07,680 --> 02:05:10,160 persuaded to change his allegiance and attack the 2590 02:05:10,160 --> 02:05:12,520 Blackwoods. Pretty specific, isn't he? 2591 02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:14,880 He's not saying he'd get them on his side. 2592 02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:17,960 He's not saying he could get them to track the Tullys or only 2593 02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:21,680 the Blackwoods like I can get them, They'll their honor will 2594 02:05:21,680 --> 02:05:23,920 not allow them to attack other river Lords except the 2595 02:05:23,920 --> 02:05:25,480 Blackwoods. That's the one exception that 2596 02:05:25,480 --> 02:05:27,600 they'll make here because they hate them so much. 2597 02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:30,800 The the famous hatred is is a wedge here. 2598 02:05:30,800 --> 02:05:34,520 Tywin knows you can use it to neutralize both houses, turn 2599 02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:36,000 them against each other, and then they're both out of the 2600 02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:37,760 picture. And that's exactly what happens. 2601 02:05:38,040 --> 02:05:43,160 Even though Tywin himself had Stonehedge burned early in the 2602 02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:46,520 war. So the Brackens should hate the 2603 02:05:46,520 --> 02:05:49,200 Lannisters more. But the Lannisters have all this 2604 02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:51,680 power, and the Blackwood feud is so much older and so much more 2605 02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:53,600 ingrained. So he's like, you know what? 2606 02:05:54,360 --> 02:05:56,840 You can have a pardon if you attack the people you hate. 2607 02:05:56,840 --> 02:06:00,840 Was like, if I do that, like this sounds like a bone. 2608 02:06:00,840 --> 02:06:03,360 Like it sounds like you're offering me a good, like, I have 2609 02:06:03,360 --> 02:06:04,960 to do that. Like, I want to do that. 2610 02:06:05,160 --> 02:06:06,840 Like thank. You pardon you if you jump in a 2611 02:06:06,840 --> 02:06:08,880 briar patch. The briar patch? 2612 02:06:08,960 --> 02:06:10,920 Oh, no. Like. 2613 02:06:11,400 --> 02:06:14,800 I'll pardon you if you go out and have a nice dinner with your 2614 02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:16,320 friends. Like what? 2615 02:06:16,840 --> 02:06:19,480 Like, OK. Like you're bribing me with a 2616 02:06:19,480 --> 02:06:20,040 good time. Yeah. 2617 02:06:20,040 --> 02:06:21,520 It's like, don't bribe me with a good time, man. 2618 02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:22,920 That's exactly what this is. Yeah. 2619 02:06:23,240 --> 02:06:26,160 So they stalemate each other from the for the for a while 2620 02:06:26,160 --> 02:06:29,400 there because Bracken's like, Yep, we'll get what few men we 2621 02:06:29,400 --> 02:06:32,440 have left and go surround Raven Tree Hall and sit there and wait 2622 02:06:32,440 --> 02:06:35,160 because, well, we'll see in a minute. 2623 02:06:35,160 --> 02:06:37,920 What's going to happen is the the the Blackwoods will refuse 2624 02:06:37,920 --> 02:06:39,560 to surrender to the brackets like, well, yeah, I'll 2625 02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:43,280 surrender, but not to them. So it becomes a stalemate while 2626 02:06:43,520 --> 02:06:45,720 they wait for some other resolution which may or may not 2627 02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:49,000 be coming. In the meantime, Brienne's over 2628 02:06:49,000 --> 02:06:51,480 on the quiet aisle. She wanders over there on her 2629 02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:57,200 journeys and her searches and elder brother says a lot of 2630 02:06:57,200 --> 02:07:01,000 beautiful, tragic things. And one of them is that Bracken 2631 02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:03,480 and Blackwood wash up here all the time and they get buried 2632 02:07:03,480 --> 02:07:07,880 side by side because in death, you know, there there's no 2633 02:07:07,880 --> 02:07:09,800 hatred there. They're all in the same place. 2634 02:07:09,800 --> 02:07:12,800 They're just bodies. They're at rest. 2635 02:07:13,280 --> 02:07:15,200 Their hatreds are gone. Their rivalries are gone. 2636 02:07:15,280 --> 02:07:17,480 They're probably aren't born Blackwood or Bracken. 2637 02:07:17,480 --> 02:07:20,560 These aren't like, these are men that lived in those territories, 2638 02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:23,680 not like people that actually belong to those families. 2639 02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:26,400 So there, that feud was passed to them as well. 2640 02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:28,440 All these like soldiers, which I think pretty important. 2641 02:07:28,440 --> 02:07:32,240 We focused on the families quite a lot, but all the villagers and 2642 02:07:32,240 --> 02:07:35,440 and commoners that they rule over are caught up in this view 2643 02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:36,760 too. And they're taught to hate 2644 02:07:36,920 --> 02:07:38,160 Bracken. People living on Bracken land 2645 02:07:38,160 --> 02:07:40,200 are taught to hate Blackwoods, like a lot of them probably do. 2646 02:07:40,200 --> 02:07:42,240 They like buy into the policy, the line, you know, it's like, 2647 02:07:42,240 --> 02:07:44,760 it's like sports rivalries, like you live in New York. 2648 02:07:45,760 --> 02:07:47,600 You're root for the, I don't know, the Yankees. 2649 02:07:48,240 --> 02:07:50,560 That means your family taught you to root for the Yankees, and 2650 02:07:50,560 --> 02:07:51,920 you probably hate the Red Sox you know. 2651 02:07:51,920 --> 02:07:53,600 Or at least you think see them as your main rivalry. 2652 02:07:53,600 --> 02:07:55,880 Or you know, whatever sport your family follows. 2653 02:07:55,880 --> 02:07:58,640 You're probably aware of this concept to some degree, except 2654 02:07:58,640 --> 02:08:00,400 this is violence. This is death and killing. 2655 02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:04,200 Not just let's score touchdowns or hit home runs or whatever. 2656 02:08:04,720 --> 02:08:08,680 So, but the but some of the structural underpinnings are 2657 02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:12,480 similar in that it's taught to you, you're you inherited this 2658 02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:15,440 from your parents, and you don't exactly know why. 2659 02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:18,880 Like what one sports team isn't better than the other, morally, 2660 02:08:18,920 --> 02:08:21,120 Generally speaking, right? It's just you just have a 2661 02:08:21,120 --> 02:08:24,960 favorite, but you treat it like it's life or death or something 2662 02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:27,120 more serious than that. In this case it is more serious, 2663 02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:28,680 but still. On some level, it's maybe 2664 02:08:28,680 --> 02:08:31,280 geographic too, especially when it comes to sports, right? 2665 02:08:31,320 --> 02:08:34,680 Like, you might end up being a fan of the home team, wherever 2666 02:08:34,680 --> 02:08:36,520 you're from, wherever your parents are, if you move 2667 02:08:36,520 --> 02:08:37,080 somewhere. But. 2668 02:08:37,280 --> 02:08:40,520 But you Can you imagine someone being born in Barrowtown and 2669 02:08:40,520 --> 02:08:42,280 growing up to hate the Blackwoods? 2670 02:08:42,440 --> 02:08:44,360 You know what I mean? Yeah, in a row. 2671 02:08:44,360 --> 02:08:49,920 Would they do that? So let's talk about the Siege of 2672 02:08:49,920 --> 02:08:53,360 Raven Tree. Which is one of our last 2673 02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:54,760 sections here. We're coming back to where we 2674 02:08:54,760 --> 02:08:59,680 started, where Jamie goes there and talks to Jonas Bracken and 2675 02:08:59,680 --> 02:09:02,160 gets his version of the history, and then talks to Hoster 2676 02:09:02,160 --> 02:09:04,600 Blackwood and gets his version of the histories. 2677 02:09:05,080 --> 02:09:07,680 And this is a little before that. 2678 02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:10,640 This is how it gets started. Which encouraged Jamie to go 2679 02:09:10,640 --> 02:09:12,200 there in the 1st place. Whoa. 2680 02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:16,320 As the River Lords took their leave, or Karl Vance lingered to 2681 02:09:16,320 --> 02:09:21,520 say or Jamie, you must go to Raven Tree so long as it is 2682 02:09:21,520 --> 02:09:24,640 Jonas at his gates. Titus will never yield, but I 2683 02:09:24,640 --> 02:09:26,080 know he will bend his knee for you. 2684 02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:29,760 Jaime thanked him for his counsel. 100% accurate. 2685 02:09:29,760 --> 02:09:31,160 Totally right? Like, yeah, dude. 2686 02:09:31,160 --> 02:09:35,960 The Pride will not allow him to surrender to Jonas Bracken, but 2687 02:09:35,960 --> 02:09:37,560 he'll totally do it to Jaime Lannister. 2688 02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:40,160 Like in the name of the King. Everyone in the Riverlands knows 2689 02:09:40,160 --> 02:09:41,480 this. They this is a common knowledge. 2690 02:09:41,480 --> 02:09:42,760 Like, Jaime might have known it himself. 2691 02:09:42,760 --> 02:09:44,880 He might have needed to be reminded of it, and it's good 2692 02:09:44,880 --> 02:09:47,560 for the reader to be reminded of it by this conversation coming. 2693 02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:49,880 Well, like Jamie's like, oh, yeah, of course I do. 2694 02:09:49,880 --> 02:09:52,680 That makes sense. They won't, they won't yield to 2695 02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:55,120 their own their, their super ancient enemy that they hate 2696 02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:56,520 with all every fiber they're being. 2697 02:09:56,760 --> 02:10:00,280 So I need to adjudicate. I need to be the ambassador, the 2698 02:10:00,760 --> 02:10:03,680 arbitrator here. I mean, pride is already a big 2699 02:10:03,680 --> 02:10:05,640 problem for the noble and privileged, right? 2700 02:10:05,640 --> 02:10:08,440 Like you, you're born with feeling like you're better than 2701 02:10:08,440 --> 02:10:10,600 other people. And this feud is just as mad. 2702 02:10:10,680 --> 02:10:13,840 This feud is as much a part of their identity as that nobility 2703 02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:15,440 and that pride. In fact, it's all wrapped 2704 02:10:15,440 --> 02:10:17,240 together. Noble identity? 2705 02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:18,920 No. Their and their pride. 2706 02:10:19,280 --> 02:10:21,280 Those two things are like those things are linked. 2707 02:10:21,720 --> 02:10:24,400 Your your noble identity is linked to your pride, and your 2708 02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:28,280 pride is in part to your house's traditions, and one of their 2709 02:10:28,280 --> 02:10:31,320 traditions is hating the other. Now here's how it plays out when 2710 02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:34,040 Jamie is actually allowed inside Raven Tree Hall quote. 2711 02:10:34,440 --> 02:10:36,720 I am here to make an end of this. 2712 02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:41,200 Your men have fought valiantly, but your war is lost. 2713 02:10:41,560 --> 02:10:45,520 Are you prepared to yield? To the King, not to Jonas 2714 02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:47,280 Bracken I. Understand. 2715 02:10:47,680 --> 02:10:52,000 Yes, he does and so do we. We do indeed. 2716 02:10:52,440 --> 02:10:54,600 I think we understand. I don't know if we we don't 2717 02:10:54,600 --> 02:10:58,920 agree, but we understand we've had a lot of, a lot of education 2718 02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:02,240 on this topic and of the way these people think. 2719 02:11:03,240 --> 02:11:05,480 So yeah, let's let's return specifically to that 2720 02:11:05,480 --> 02:11:08,360 conversation between Jamie and young bookish hoster Blackwood, 2721 02:11:08,360 --> 02:11:12,600 which comes very shortly after this agreement is made between 2722 02:11:14,160 --> 02:11:17,880 Haitos and Jamie quote. So you were fighting over a 2723 02:11:17,880 --> 02:11:20,520 crown that one of you took from the other, back when the 2724 02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:22,600 casterly still held Casterly Rock. 2725 02:11:22,880 --> 02:11:25,360 Is that the root of it? The crown of a Kingdom that has 2726 02:11:25,360 --> 02:11:27,680 not existed for thousands of years? 2727 02:11:27,880 --> 02:11:30,640 He chuckled. So many years, so many wars, so 2728 02:11:30,640 --> 02:11:33,720 many kings, you'd think someone would have made a peace. 2729 02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:37,480 Someone did, my Lord. Many someones. 2730 02:11:37,800 --> 02:11:42,600 We've had 100 pieces with the brackens, many sealed with 2731 02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:45,640 marriages. There's Blackwood blood in every 2732 02:11:45,640 --> 02:11:49,360 bracken, and Bracken blood in every Blackwood. 2733 02:11:49,760 --> 02:11:55,000 The old King's peace lasted half a century, But then some fresh 2734 02:11:55,000 --> 02:11:59,480 quarrel broke out and the old wounds opened and began to bleed 2735 02:11:59,480 --> 02:12:02,400 again. That's how it always happens, my 2736 02:12:02,400 --> 02:12:05,800 father says. So long as men remember the 2737 02:12:05,800 --> 02:12:10,440 wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last. 2738 02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:15,480 So we go on century after century with us hating the 2739 02:12:15,480 --> 02:12:20,280 brackens and them hating us. My father says there will never 2740 02:12:20,280 --> 02:12:22,520 be an end to it. There could be. 2741 02:12:22,920 --> 02:12:27,400 How, my Lord, the old wounds never heal, my father says. 2742 02:12:27,720 --> 02:12:30,960 My father has the same too. Never wound a foe when you can 2743 02:12:30,960 --> 02:12:33,640 kill him dead men don't claim vengeance. 2744 02:12:34,080 --> 02:12:37,800 Their sons do, said Hoster apologetically. 2745 02:12:37,960 --> 02:12:40,360 Exactly right. We discussed this earlier in the 2746 02:12:40,360 --> 02:12:41,640 episode. That is exactly what happens, 2747 02:12:41,640 --> 02:12:45,600 and that's where their honor sometimes stops them. 2748 02:12:45,600 --> 02:12:48,360 Maybe from what could end it, because it would be such a 2749 02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:51,200 dishonorable ending, killing children, not the continuing. 2750 02:12:51,200 --> 02:12:53,200 The violence is much more honorable but couldn't 2751 02:12:53,760 --> 02:12:56,640 understand why that would be a bridge too far even for this 2752 02:12:56,640 --> 02:13:00,360 feud which is, you know, the worst feud that we can point to 2753 02:13:00,360 --> 02:13:04,960 in this entire world. Now Jamie Jamie's father or 2754 02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:07,240 Jamie himself could have pointed out, well if this conversation 2755 02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:09,440 had gone any farther, which it didn't because he well, the the 2756 02:13:09,440 --> 02:13:13,960 rains and Tarbeks were my father knew how to handle them. 2757 02:13:14,240 --> 02:13:18,440 But Tywin was special. You know air quotes there. 2758 02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:21,800 He that was not something people normally did. 2759 02:13:22,440 --> 02:13:25,640 Yeah. Ares wiped out a few houses to 2760 02:13:25,640 --> 02:13:27,600 you know there are some. Every once in a while someone 2761 02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:29,760 gets exterminated. You know, someone gets someone 2762 02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:31,840 with power who's a lot more powerful than them, does this. 2763 02:13:33,080 --> 02:13:35,760 These days, these examples when they happened there were were 2764 02:13:35,760 --> 02:13:38,280 taught and shown through context that they're rare. 2765 02:13:38,360 --> 02:13:39,400 And there's a reason why they're rare. 2766 02:13:39,400 --> 02:13:41,400 It's just people just aren't willing to go this far. 2767 02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:44,640 You know, it's like, theoretically anyone can murder 2768 02:13:44,640 --> 02:13:47,920 anyone, right? But people don't because they 2769 02:13:47,920 --> 02:13:50,880 don't want to, you know, it's it's too far. 2770 02:13:50,880 --> 02:13:55,440 Like this feud already pushes them beyond their normal, like 2771 02:13:55,440 --> 02:13:57,800 human boundaries. Like they already do things 2772 02:13:57,800 --> 02:14:00,360 under the guise of this feud that they would never do in any 2773 02:14:00,360 --> 02:14:06,120 other circumstance, save maybe a few really difficult enemy type 2774 02:14:06,120 --> 02:14:08,320 situation scenarios. Like you would never, almost 2775 02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:11,800 never do certain dishonorable killings or attacks. 2776 02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:13,840 I would never attack. I would never be the first one 2777 02:14:13,840 --> 02:14:16,080 to swing my sword at someone unless it was a bracket, you 2778 02:14:16,080 --> 02:14:18,640 know, So they're already doing things that they would never 2779 02:14:18,640 --> 02:14:19,840 normally do and this is this is it. 2780 02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:22,360 Like Tywin was just one of those people that was was willing to 2781 02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:26,600 go that far. Like his feuds with people were 2782 02:14:26,600 --> 02:14:30,240 all win or die. Like everything was the do you 2783 02:14:30,240 --> 02:14:31,600 win play the Game of Thrones, You win or die. 2784 02:14:31,600 --> 02:14:33,920 Everything is that way for Tywin, the Blackwoods and 2785 02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:36,520 brackens. Maybe not quite that ruthless. 2786 02:14:36,520 --> 02:14:40,320 Maybe just that the fight, that the feud is the purpose of it. 2787 02:14:40,360 --> 02:14:43,240 You know that is the point. Not winning isn't the point. 2788 02:14:43,240 --> 02:14:45,080 It's the point is feuding to some point. 2789 02:14:45,080 --> 02:14:46,240 To some degree, I think that's true. 2790 02:14:46,480 --> 02:14:48,840 There's also another factor to consider here. 2791 02:14:48,840 --> 02:14:51,960 Is it Who's going to put Tywin in check when he does this? 2792 02:14:51,960 --> 02:14:55,280 Yeah, right. Like the he was. 2793 02:14:55,280 --> 02:14:56,960 He was he handed the king at that moment. 2794 02:14:57,000 --> 02:14:58,640 No, he was not he. Was not yet, no. 2795 02:14:59,640 --> 02:15:02,480 But still, clearly there's only really one person above him that 2796 02:15:02,480 --> 02:15:06,360 can do anything about this. And that person was insane and 2797 02:15:06,360 --> 02:15:07,960 power hungry themselves or whatever, you know. 2798 02:15:09,680 --> 02:15:13,280 So another thing to consider is, you know there a couple of 2799 02:15:13,280 --> 02:15:15,800 factors of This is kind of ironic when you think about that 2800 02:15:15,800 --> 02:15:18,040 quote earlier where Jonas Bracken, talking to the 2801 02:15:18,040 --> 02:15:20,720 Blackwood, said treachery runs in their blood. 2802 02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:23,920 But now we're told that they've been remarried so much that 2803 02:15:23,920 --> 02:15:26,720 they're the same blood. So he's saying treachery runs in 2804 02:15:26,720 --> 02:15:31,240 his own blood. A if Jamie is suggesting that 2805 02:15:31,240 --> 02:15:33,880 maybe you wipe all of them out, well, that means wipe all of 2806 02:15:33,880 --> 02:15:37,480 yourself out too like that it's not quite the option that that 2807 02:15:37,760 --> 02:15:39,840 as dark as that statement might be. 2808 02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:42,400 You know it's I I think that Jamie was kind of implying when 2809 02:15:42,400 --> 02:15:44,520 he said there could be if you just kill them all, there won't 2810 02:15:44,520 --> 02:15:46,480 be a rivaler anymore. But that means you have to kill 2811 02:15:46,480 --> 02:15:48,080 everyone in your own house as well. 2812 02:15:48,120 --> 02:15:51,000 So that's not really the option That and he thinks he might be 2813 02:15:51,000 --> 02:15:53,440 presenting. Yeah, I was just double checking 2814 02:15:53,440 --> 02:15:55,960 about the Tywin being handling. He became handling right after 2815 02:15:56,160 --> 02:15:58,760 the Reigns and Tarbex thing basically. 2816 02:15:59,160 --> 02:16:02,960 Anyway, yeah, well said Sean, One, basically just one or two 2817 02:16:02,960 --> 02:16:05,040 more points here. I think we might see Hofter the 2818 02:16:05,040 --> 02:16:07,040 hostage again like he's going to King's Landing. 2819 02:16:07,040 --> 02:16:10,320 So like that's a that's a place where we often you're. 2820 02:16:10,320 --> 02:16:13,120 You're more likely to be seen in POV chapters at King's Landing 2821 02:16:13,120 --> 02:16:14,840 than most locations. It's obviously one of the most 2822 02:16:14,840 --> 02:16:20,600 popular location, 4 chapters to be, and you know that could go 2823 02:16:20,880 --> 02:16:23,400 well or badly. Maybe he'll become a hostage for 2824 02:16:23,400 --> 02:16:26,400 Aegon's camp instead and then maybe Danny or something like 2825 02:16:26,400 --> 02:16:28,360 who knows? We could see a lot more of him. 2826 02:16:28,360 --> 02:16:29,560 Maybe he will get to meet Tyrion. 2827 02:16:29,560 --> 02:16:31,840 That would be interesting. That's Huster. 2828 02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:36,400 Blackwood, right, is on his way. Isn't there also a Bracken? 2829 02:16:36,520 --> 02:16:40,240 Hostage there is. We haven't met her, but yes, one 2830 02:16:40,240 --> 02:16:42,400 of the girls like Jonas Bracken has a bunch of girls and he said 2831 02:16:42,400 --> 02:16:44,120 I want you to send one of them. I forget if he picked one. 2832 02:16:44,240 --> 02:16:46,680 I think he just said send one of your girls as well. 2833 02:16:47,040 --> 02:16:49,400 But what what I'm getting at here is it's there. 2834 02:16:49,400 --> 02:16:53,280 Another famous rivalry is the Montague's and the Capulets from 2835 02:16:53,280 --> 02:16:56,719 Romeo and Juliet. And these two kids, who maybe 2836 02:16:56,719 --> 02:16:59,879 have not fully indoctrinated into this rivalry, might meet 2837 02:16:59,879 --> 02:17:02,200 and form a. That's a great idea, Sean. 2838 02:17:02,200 --> 02:17:04,600 I did not think of that. So maybe this young Blackwood, 2839 02:17:04,600 --> 02:17:08,200 young Bracken girl and and hoster Blackwood, who's like 12 2840 02:17:08,200 --> 02:17:10,000 or 13. Yeah, maybe they could become 2841 02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:11,120 friends. Maybe they could fall in love. 2842 02:17:11,600 --> 02:17:13,240 That also ended in tragedy, to be clear. 2843 02:17:13,240 --> 02:17:16,120 So well, yeah, how positive I can be about that potential. 2844 02:17:16,120 --> 02:17:18,080 But. Yeah, hopefully. 2845 02:17:18,080 --> 02:17:20,040 Maybe maybe it'll be a good tragedy. 2846 02:17:20,040 --> 02:17:24,320 Like it's it's changes the Blackwood Bracken dynamic 2847 02:17:24,360 --> 02:17:25,639 forever. Even though it doesn't go well 2848 02:17:25,639 --> 02:17:28,400 for them, you know if they they die at King's Landing in a hail 2849 02:17:28,400 --> 02:17:30,639 of fire, but everyone knows they were in love. 2850 02:17:32,440 --> 02:17:34,760 So Nina says. Brings us back to the point 2851 02:17:34,760 --> 02:17:37,959 about Bracken Blackwood favoritism and how both of 2852 02:17:38,200 --> 02:17:42,879 George and the fans, because of the way George wrote them, wrote 2853 02:17:42,879 --> 02:17:45,320 them. The Blackwoods are just better 2854 02:17:45,959 --> 02:17:48,040 people like them more. And it's true. 2855 02:17:48,040 --> 02:17:49,920 It's hard to you can't. It's it's pretty much impossible 2856 02:17:49,920 --> 02:17:52,680 to disagree with that. Like Lothar Bracken betrayed 2857 02:17:52,680 --> 02:17:56,680 Agnes Blackwood. You've got Kriegen Stark, you 2858 02:17:56,680 --> 02:17:58,760 know, doing things with Blackwoods. 2859 02:17:58,760 --> 02:18:02,200 And like you said, Sean, it's hard to find good examples of 2860 02:18:02,200 --> 02:18:03,559 brackens. You got Barbara and like 2861 02:18:03,559 --> 02:18:08,000 Bethany's a victim and Barbara's a schemer, Agor is a schemer and 2862 02:18:08,000 --> 02:18:10,240 A is as bitter as his name says, You know. 2863 02:18:11,360 --> 02:18:13,600 Titus Blackwood, on the other hand, comes up so much better 2864 02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:16,120 than Jonas Bracken. Jonas Bracken comes off as, you 2865 02:18:16,120 --> 02:18:20,600 know kind of disloyal, kind of scummy, you know, not the worst 2866 02:18:20,600 --> 02:18:22,280 guy. There's the bar is pretty low in 2867 02:18:22,280 --> 02:18:25,000 Westeros. Like he's he's no Gregor Clegane 2868 02:18:25,000 --> 02:18:27,280 or you know, but he's you know he doesn't come off great. 2869 02:18:27,879 --> 02:18:31,240 Titus Blackwood comes up as an honorable and an upright and he 2870 02:18:31,400 --> 02:18:34,080 conducted himself very well in the war before he had stood out 2871 02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:37,799 as a leader. He, he helped rescue Edmure, you 2872 02:18:37,799 --> 02:18:40,120 know, during some of the early battles when the war just 2873 02:18:40,120 --> 02:18:41,360 started. So it's true. 2874 02:18:41,360 --> 02:18:43,559 It's like, oh, that's true. Yet I think it's super 2875 02:18:43,559 --> 02:18:46,559 interesting that George doesn't make the black, which is the 2876 02:18:46,559 --> 02:18:49,040 winner in the feud, nor does he make them more morally correct 2877 02:18:49,040 --> 02:18:51,719 in the context of the feud. Outside the feud, yes, they're 2878 02:18:51,719 --> 02:18:55,200 more, they're more upright, they're portrayed as better. 2879 02:18:55,760 --> 02:19:00,040 They're closer to power and use power better in a lot of ways. 2880 02:19:00,480 --> 02:19:02,840 They're kind of cooler, you know, like Blood Ravens just 2881 02:19:03,000 --> 02:19:05,040 cool, you know, and their their sigils. 2882 02:19:05,040 --> 02:19:08,200 I don't know, the horse is cool, but the Raven with tree, that's 2883 02:19:08,200 --> 02:19:09,840 just cooler, right? So most people are going to like 2884 02:19:09,840 --> 02:19:11,959 that more, I think. But within the context of the 2885 02:19:11,959 --> 02:19:14,400 feud, the Blackwoods don't look morally superior. 2886 02:19:14,440 --> 02:19:17,480 It does not even drop the slightest hint that, yeah, 2887 02:19:17,480 --> 02:19:20,120 actually the Blackwoods are the ones in the right here. 2888 02:19:20,600 --> 02:19:23,400 Not in terms of the feud, In terms of like, yes, moral 2889 02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:25,879 correctness, just general betterness, a better house, 2890 02:19:25,879 --> 02:19:28,440 whatever, sure. But in the context of fighting 2891 02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:30,520 each other, they neither looks good. 2892 02:19:30,920 --> 02:19:32,799 They look equally to blame for it. 2893 02:19:32,799 --> 02:19:34,440 I think that's neat. Like George is like, yeah, 2894 02:19:34,440 --> 02:19:35,360 these. This house is cooler. 2895 02:19:35,360 --> 02:19:37,240 I like them more. But when it comes to starting 2896 02:19:37,240 --> 02:19:42,320 fights, I'm not going to give them any moral credit for that. 2897 02:19:42,320 --> 02:19:44,280 They're just as bad. They're both equally to blame 2898 02:19:44,280 --> 02:19:46,280 for this, and I appreciate that. That's cool. 2899 02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:49,120 Even in in in showing his blatant favoritism for the 2900 02:19:49,120 --> 02:19:56,040 Blackwoods, they don't get set higher than the Brackens for in 2901 02:19:56,040 --> 02:19:57,760 in the contest of the context of this feud. 2902 02:19:58,080 --> 02:20:02,640 It takes two to tango, right? Like, you know, neither of them 2903 02:20:02,640 --> 02:20:05,840 know the reason it started, but both of them continue it, even 2904 02:20:05,840 --> 02:20:09,760 if one of them, aside from Nets is at least as far as we can 2905 02:20:09,760 --> 02:20:11,920 tell, seems to be portrayed more positively. 2906 02:20:12,280 --> 02:20:14,400 But if they were really good, they would not worry about the 2907 02:20:14,400 --> 02:20:16,920 feud, right? It it would be hard to last, you 2908 02:20:16,920 --> 02:20:19,280 know, very long if one side stopped caring. 2909 02:20:19,520 --> 02:20:21,080 Yeah, that's true. That's true. 2910 02:20:21,640 --> 02:20:24,120 So will they unite against another common enemy? 2911 02:20:24,120 --> 02:20:27,560 We saw examples of them doing that against the Andals, against 2912 02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:29,680 the Well, not against the Ironborn. 2913 02:20:30,800 --> 02:20:33,880 Against the Teags, for example, was another one, and perhaps 2914 02:20:33,880 --> 02:20:37,040 against the others during the Long Night, and that might be 2915 02:20:37,040 --> 02:20:38,520 who they unite against this time. 2916 02:20:38,920 --> 02:20:41,880 Will that finally teach them to work together to set aside their 2917 02:20:41,880 --> 02:20:43,760 feud? Probably not. 2918 02:20:44,320 --> 02:20:45,240 It might. They are. 2919 02:20:45,360 --> 02:20:47,240 They might work together. But setting aside their feud, 2920 02:20:47,240 --> 02:20:50,560 that's the part I'm. Together until the others are 2921 02:20:50,560 --> 02:20:52,560 defeated, and now they're. Back to their feud, right? 2922 02:20:52,560 --> 02:20:55,520 That seems more likely. Certainly in the short term it's 2923 02:20:55,520 --> 02:20:57,400 going to happen and we won't see the long term, so we won't know 2924 02:20:57,400 --> 02:21:00,320 if 100 years it will. It will take time passing to 2925 02:21:00,320 --> 02:21:02,160 know if the feud has stopped because it's like, well, maybe 2926 02:21:02,160 --> 02:21:04,080 they don't fight for 10 years. Nothing, nothing. 2927 02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:07,480 Saying they won't start fighting in the 11th year. 100 years goes 2928 02:21:07,480 --> 02:21:11,560 by 101st year they might fight. So we we would need a lot of 2929 02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:15,200 Beyond A Song of Ice and Fire time to see if they've actually 2930 02:21:15,200 --> 02:21:18,160 stopped or the only way we'd know for sure is if like, yeah, 2931 02:21:18,280 --> 02:21:21,280 well one or both of those houses is gone, then well then it's 2932 02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:22,480 that that would be the end of it. 2933 02:21:23,160 --> 02:21:27,280 So it's a great bit of world building that also serves as a 2934 02:21:27,280 --> 02:21:29,440 narrative and or literary device to deliver emphasis. 2935 02:21:29,440 --> 02:21:32,080 The Brack and Blackwood feud is more than I thought it would be 2936 02:21:32,080 --> 02:21:35,440 when we started, when when I started researching it and 2937 02:21:35,440 --> 02:21:39,120 diving into it, you know I I thought I knew where it would go 2938 02:21:39,120 --> 02:21:41,480 and in some places it did. But this other lot of other 2939 02:21:41,480 --> 02:21:42,920 things that came up that I didn't realize. 2940 02:21:42,920 --> 02:21:45,800 I certainly didn't remember the part about it being the backdrop 2941 02:21:45,800 --> 02:21:48,960 for Lysa and and Littlefinger and Peter and our Littlefinger 2942 02:21:48,960 --> 02:21:50,560 and Catelyn and all that that night. 2943 02:21:50,600 --> 02:21:53,960 That being the distraction that led to all this man, even those 2944 02:21:53,960 --> 02:21:55,560 little things. It comes up in social moments 2945 02:21:55,560 --> 02:21:56,560 too. It isn't just wars that 2946 02:21:56,560 --> 02:21:59,920 distract, it's just their little Their disputes, like distract 2947 02:21:59,920 --> 02:22:05,160 people and or come up in other more mundane times have become 2948 02:22:05,160 --> 02:22:08,040 not so mundane when after the passage of time. 2949 02:22:08,520 --> 02:22:12,240 Yeah, I thought that this topic, I'm not unsoldly like I was 2950 02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:14,040 before, but I'm not as deep into it. 2951 02:22:14,040 --> 02:22:15,720 I haven't read the book so many times. 2952 02:22:15,720 --> 02:22:17,200 I've been. I've been doing this for a few 2953 02:22:17,200 --> 02:22:19,080 years, not decades like some people you know. 2954 02:22:19,080 --> 02:22:22,760 So to me, this is like, oh, neat little niche part of the story. 2955 02:22:22,760 --> 02:22:25,120 We'll do a quick episode on. I would just say it's 2956 02:22:25,120 --> 02:22:27,880 superficial Research is like, I think I searched a search of Ice 2957 02:22:27,880 --> 02:22:31,160 and Fire for Blackwood and had like over 100 results. 2958 02:22:31,160 --> 02:22:33,360 Like, man, how often does this come up? 2959 02:22:33,360 --> 02:22:35,920 I just didn't realize how pervasive and inconsistent it 2960 02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:36,680 was. Right. 2961 02:22:36,680 --> 02:22:38,480 It's cool. So it symbolizes the worst parts 2962 02:22:38,480 --> 02:22:40,200 of human nature and human civilization. 2963 02:22:40,760 --> 02:22:46,320 And maybe it will see what it means to overcome all that and 2964 02:22:46,320 --> 02:22:48,600 fight together. Maybe that will be part of this 2965 02:22:48,600 --> 02:22:50,880 whole theme, this whole lesson, this whole aspect of the story. 2966 02:22:51,080 --> 02:22:54,480 Trivia answer What village rest between the grassy hills fought 2967 02:22:54,480 --> 02:22:57,600 over by bracket and Blackwood known as the Teats Penny tree. 2968 02:22:57,840 --> 02:22:59,480 Several times. Yeah, we had Penny Tree. 2969 02:22:59,480 --> 02:23:01,280 There it is. Yeah, that's cool. 2970 02:23:01,280 --> 02:23:02,800 I like that. So we'll we'll, I'm sure we'll 2971 02:23:02,800 --> 02:23:05,040 see Penny Tree in the Duncan Egg Show. 2972 02:23:05,360 --> 02:23:08,480 That was a guarantee. Like the guy 100%. 2973 02:23:08,720 --> 02:23:09,680 There's no way we won't see that. 2974 02:23:09,680 --> 02:23:11,600 We might even see the pennies nailed to the tree. 2975 02:23:11,600 --> 02:23:12,800 They might even do that. That'd be cool. 2976 02:23:12,800 --> 02:23:14,520 I hope they do that. That'd be really neat, although 2977 02:23:14,520 --> 02:23:16,040 we won't see it in season one. Probably. 2978 02:23:16,040 --> 02:23:17,760 Maybe we will if it's in flashback, because Dunk does 2979 02:23:17,760 --> 02:23:19,680 have flashback. Anyway, that's a story for 2980 02:23:19,680 --> 02:23:22,640 another time. Just looking forward to what's 2981 02:23:22,640 --> 02:23:24,440 to come. There's always more to come, 2982 02:23:24,760 --> 02:23:27,720 more episodes from us, more TV episodes, and hopefully some 2983 02:23:27,720 --> 02:23:29,680 more books too. Some episodes I mentioned that 2984 02:23:29,680 --> 02:23:31,840 relate to this one. Under the Dragons is a big one. 2985 02:23:32,200 --> 02:23:33,680 Before the Conquest is another one. 2986 02:23:33,880 --> 02:23:36,720 Or rather, before the Dragons is what we call that our Black Fire 2987 02:23:36,720 --> 02:23:38,640 series. Of course a lot of that came up, 2988 02:23:38,640 --> 02:23:40,280 whether it's Egg on the Unworthy, whether it's Bitter 2989 02:23:40,280 --> 02:23:43,520 Steel, individual episodes for all these different characters. 2990 02:23:43,720 --> 02:23:47,480 Also the Golden Company, Black, a lot of the battles themselves. 2991 02:23:47,480 --> 02:23:50,520 Of course, our Duncan Egg series taught all three books very 2992 02:23:50,520 --> 02:23:53,120 relevant to Black and Brackwood feud, especially the 1st 2:00, 2993 02:23:53,280 --> 02:23:56,720 but also the third one better. Steal and Blood Raven are always 2994 02:23:56,720 --> 02:23:58,880 participating and they're Bracket and Blackwood. 2995 02:23:58,880 --> 02:24:01,000 So there you go. And of course, our Valerie 2996 02:24:01,080 --> 02:24:04,920 series, meaning the books, the main series, we we deal with 2997 02:24:04,920 --> 02:24:07,840 these chapters individually, Jamie and then Hoster and that 2998 02:24:07,840 --> 02:24:10,800 all that stuff at Raven Tree Hall and Stonehedge is, is very 2999 02:24:10,800 --> 02:24:14,880 relevant and various other places we've talked about him as 3000 02:24:14,880 --> 02:24:16,800 well too. So that's a good start for you. 3001 02:24:16,800 --> 02:24:19,280 Hopefully you enjoy those. Aimon the Dragon Knight, by the 3002 02:24:19,280 --> 02:24:21,320 way, is another one since we talk a lot about. 3003 02:24:21,320 --> 02:24:24,280 He's important to the story of of Aegon the Unworthy. 3004 02:24:24,400 --> 02:24:27,240 And of course he comes up in the context of John's chapters very 3005 02:24:27,240 --> 02:24:31,320 early on, both Daron and Aemon and Aegon the Unworthy. 3006 02:24:31,480 --> 02:24:34,160 So that's important. Also the Shira Seastar episode, 3007 02:24:34,760 --> 02:24:36,200 there's so many that relate to this. 3008 02:24:36,200 --> 02:24:38,640 Honestly, we have. We've been doing this a while, 3009 02:24:38,640 --> 02:24:40,600 you know. All right, Thanks everybody for 3010 02:24:40,600 --> 02:24:45,040 attending or listening later. We appreciate you consuming our 3011 02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:48,880 content because that's important to us and we are grateful. 3012 02:24:49,560 --> 02:24:53,280 Nina provided a lot of great takes today, as she so often 3013 02:24:53,280 --> 02:24:55,640 does. It's a regular occurrence around 3014 02:24:55,640 --> 02:24:57,320 these parts. Great takes from Nina. 3015 02:24:57,320 --> 02:25:00,520 Check her out at Good Queen allie.tumblr.com. 3016 02:25:00,720 --> 02:25:03,960 That's 1L and Allie, as I like to say. 3017 02:25:05,080 --> 02:25:10,120 Thanks to Joey, Jesse Bran and Michael Klarfeld for the intros 3018 02:25:10,120 --> 02:25:13,400 and music that we have. We've got a new intro coming for 3019 02:25:13,400 --> 02:25:16,080 House of the Dragon. That's the made by Bran. 3020 02:25:16,080 --> 02:25:17,280 He's been showing us little pieces of it. 3021 02:25:17,280 --> 02:25:20,720 We're getting excited for how cool it looks and our regular 3022 02:25:20,720 --> 02:25:24,600 video intro that will probably be iconic for us at least for 3023 02:25:24,600 --> 02:25:26,440 years to come. Made by Michael Klarfeld. 3024 02:25:27,200 --> 02:25:29,720 And of course we love our music too. 3025 02:25:29,720 --> 02:25:33,400 Written by Joey Townsend and a different version. 3026 02:25:33,400 --> 02:25:35,800 The the bluesy version sometimes you hear at the end of our 3027 02:25:35,800 --> 02:25:41,280 episodes is by Jesse Koval. Until next time, thank you 3028 02:25:41,280 --> 02:25:42,760 everybody and you know what to do. 3029 02:25:43,960 --> 02:25:46,000 Valar Riridis.