1
00:00:48,370 --> 00:00:51,850
A Song of Ice and Fire does not 
lack for villains. 

2
00:00:51,850 --> 00:00:55,290
While most of the characters in 
the story are Gray characters 

3
00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:59,650
capable of both good and evil, 
George has also created 

4
00:00:59,650 --> 00:01:03,770
thoroughly mean, hateful, cruel 
people who put the protagonist 

5
00:01:03,770 --> 00:01:10,000
through the ringer, and there's 
not as much to discuss in terms 

6
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,800
of whether there's good in them 
There there isn't much, or there

7
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,520
isn't any. 
Think of Ramsey, Joffrey, 

8
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,600
Gregor, Viserys as in Danny's 
brother. 

9
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,560
These characters are very much 
one sided or almost 1 sided, and

10
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,520
that side is evil, serving as 
contrast to our heroes and their

11
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,120
choice to do good. 
The tales of Duncan eggs no 

12
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,280
exception when it comes to this 
sort of character. 

13
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,320
Perhaps the biggest, even though
he was in the first of the three

14
00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,040
novels, is Aryan Targaryen. 
He may have been only in the 

15
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,800
hedge night, but it wouldn't 
have taken long, in fact just 

16
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,040
the first scene to see that, 
well, this guy is pretty evil. 

17
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,360
Or certainly seems that way. 
If AG was 1/2 of the heroic pair

18
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,640
at the center of the tails, 
Aryan was his polar opposite. 

19
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,880
Arrogant, sadistic, and 
absolutely against Dunk from the

20
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,160
first. 
Given the mentions of Aryan in 

21
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,480
The World of Ice and Fire and 
the main novels were almost 

22
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,400
guaranteed to see Aryan in 
future tales, as history tells 

23
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,320
us he and his brother Egg will 
cross paths again. 

24
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,160
While we doubt Aryan will get 
any nicer with future stories, 

25
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,360
he was a very young man at 
Ashford Meadow, so he probably 

26
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,120
changed at least a little if not
a lot over the years. 

27
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,280
But that doesn't mean he changed
for the better. 

28
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,480
So we will speculate on what his
life might have looked like, 

29
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,840
what kind of man he became, how 
he dealt with madness, his 

30
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,360
supposed dabbling in the black 
arts, and how he might impact 

31
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,600
both the characters in his own 
time and the current stories. 

32
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,120
He is referred to quite a few 
times in The Song of Ice and 

33
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,480
Fire, after all. 
We'll be sure to get into all 

34
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,920
that and more on this episode of
History of Westeros podcast. 

35
00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,200
Hello and welcome back 
everybody. 

36
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,680
It's another episode of History 
of Westeros podcast. 

37
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,680
We're taking a look at a 
Targaryen Prince that you all 

38
00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:02,360
have heard of and have seen and 
heard and read about. 

39
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,040
And with us today is our very 
favorite. 

40
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,800
Nina, back from well, back from 
your your place where you live 

41
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,960
and coming to hang out with us 
again. 

42
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,440
Good to see you. 
I'm back again. 

43
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,560
That's right. 
That's definitely where I was. 

44
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,000
No, I mean it's amazing to be 
back with not just my friends, 

45
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,760
but may I say my Hugo nominated 
friends and I am very excited. 

46
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,920
Well, thank you. 
Thank you. 

47
00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:29,800
We appreciate it. 
Oh, congratulations. 

48
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,040
I should have had like a 
noisemaker or something but but 

49
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,480
listen, it is very cool to be on
the Hugo nominated podcast. 

50
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,280
I'll. 
Edit the sound for you, Nina. 

51
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:47,200
Something just like that. 
Very, very potent sounding like 

52
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,560
that. 
That was very manly. 

53
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,000
No, I am so excited. 
I have been wanting to do 

54
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,320
another episode for a while and 
I thought Aryan is such a rich 

55
00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,880
villain character that how do we
not have an episode about him? 

56
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,680
Yeah, he's like your opposite in
some sense, because you are good

57
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,960
Queen Alley. 
You can be found at good 

58
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,640
queenalley.tumblr.com with 1L in
Allie. 

59
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,280
And Allie is, you know, she's so
good, she's unambiguously on the

60
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,040
other side of things like this 
is it's hard to find any flaw 

61
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,240
with this lady, whereas with 
Aryan, it's hard to find the 

62
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:20,920
good. 
I'm going to make a A blog 

63
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,080
called Bad Prince Aryan and I'm 
just going to like negate 

64
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,400
everything, Nina. 
I'll like reblog it with the 

65
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,480
inverse. 
She's like whatever she said or 

66
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,840
take the opposite position. 
Yeah, that's great. 

67
00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:35,000
Yeah, the anti Nina over here. 
That's funny. 

68
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,160
I love it. 
So this episode is prerecorded. 

69
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,680
You can catch us on any platform
this episode and any other 

70
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,040
episode really, but you get it 
early. 

71
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,400
If you're a patron. 
That's pretty cool. 

72
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,520
Thanks to our dragon writer 
patron, Dragon Lord Kevin, 

73
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,800
writer of Ice Wall, a dragon 
with the coloring of ice and 

74
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,480
fire art by Ed Sheer in this 
episode. 

75
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,160
Today we have a pretty 
straightforward section headers 

76
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,240
here, but I'll read them to you 
nonetheless. 

77
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:04,960
So you know what we're getting 
into. 

78
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,440
We have our usual first menu in 
first appearance, maybe earlier 

79
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,200
than you might have thought. 
His early life attorney at 

80
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,360
Ashford, Aryan in exile, 
returned to Westeros. 

81
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:22,560
Third Black Fire Rebellion, 
later Life and death and legacy 

82
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,000
outro. 
Let's get to it with that 

83
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,160
aforementioned first dimension. 
John 1A Clash of Kings is the 

84
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,560
first time he's mentioned in the
main novels in a conversation 

85
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,600
between John and Lord Commander 
Mormont. 

86
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,440
Quote. 
The new king summoned all his 

87
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,400
sons to court and would have 
made Amon part of his counsels, 

88
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,160
but he refused, saying that 
would usurp the place rightly 

89
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,240
belonging to the Grand Maester. 
Instead he served at the keep of

90
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,000
his eldest brother, another 
Deron. 

91
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,920
Well, that one died too, leaving
only a feeble witted daughter as

92
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,480
heir. 
Some pox he caught from a whore.

93
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,400
I believe the next brother was 
Aryan. 

94
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,560
Aryan the monstrous. 
John knew that name. 

95
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,480
The Prince who thought he was a 
dragon was one of Old Nan's more

96
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,680
gruesome tales. 
His little brother Bran had 

97
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,240
loved it. 
The very one, though, he named 

98
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:25,960
himself Aryan Bright Flame. 
One night in his cups he drank a

99
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,520
jar of wildfire after telling 
his friends it would transform 

100
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,840
him into a dragon. 
But the gods were kind, and it 

101
00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:39,920
transformed him into a corpse. 
Our focus on Aryan's legacy is 

102
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,640
at the end, but it is worth 
pointing out here for knowledge 

103
00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,440
as we go through at the start 
how much Aryan has lasted in 

104
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,280
cultural memory almost 70 years 
after he died. 

105
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,960
Colorful in life and death, but 
a good example of why colorful 

106
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,960
isn't always a good thing. 
And in some ways it's ironic. 

107
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,840
After all, we just got through 
describing in the intro that 

108
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,640
he's kind of 1 sided in the old 
good evil spectrum. 

109
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,640
But as we'll see, he's 
remembered for a a variety of 

110
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,680
colorful again in air quotes, 
though not flattering reasons. 

111
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,760
As for his first appearance, 
it's very early on page in the 

112
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,240
Hedge Night quote. 
The Speaker wore a black cloak 

113
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,960
bordered in scarlet satin, but 
underneath was Raymond, bright 

114
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:30,520
as flame, all Reds and yellows 
and golds, slim and straight as 

115
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,480
a Dirk, though only of middling 
height, he was near Dunc's own 

116
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,360
age. 
Curls of silver gold hair framed

117
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,800
a face, sculpted and imperious. 
High brow and sharp cheekbones. 

118
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,920
Straight nose, pale smooth skin 
without blemish. 

119
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,320
His eyes were a deep Violet 
color. 

120
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,720
This is all very intentional on 
George's part. 

121
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,320
He's talked before about 
appearance versus reality when 

122
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,840
it comes to good and evil, as we
have here in a follow up quote. 

123
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:07,640
From Nick Gevers interviewing 
George R Martin Gevers, The Song

124
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,760
of Ice and Fire undergoes a very
interesting progression over its

125
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,640
first 3 volumes, from a 
relatively clear scenario of 

126
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,640
good, the Starks fighting evil, 
the Lannisters, to a much more 

127
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,320
ambiguous one in which the 
Lannisters are much better 

128
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,640
understood and moral certainties
are less easily attainable. 

129
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,120
Are you deliberately defying the
conventions and assumptions of 

130
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:39,280
neo Tolkienian fantasy here? 
George R Martin, guilty as 

131
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,120
charged. 
The battle between good and evil

132
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,320
is a legitimate theme for a 
fantasy, or for any work of 

133
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,280
fiction for that matter. 
But in real life, that battle is

134
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,520
fought chiefly in the individual
human heart. 

135
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:59,320
Too many contemporary fantasies 
take the easy way out by 

136
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,480
externalizing the struggle, so 
the heroic protagonists need 

137
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,560
only smite the evil minions of 
the dark power to win the day. 

138
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,040
And you can tell the evil 
minions because they're 

139
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,320
inevitably ugly and they all 
wear black. 

140
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,840
I wanted to stand much of that 
on its head. 

141
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,440
In real life, the hardest aspect
of the battle between good and 

142
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,440
evil is determining which is 
which. 

143
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,320
So yeah, he's being intentional 
about it. 

144
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,080
He knows the tropes, he has a 
plan. 

145
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,280
Nina, what are the specifics as 
it pertains to Aryan? 

146
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,360
When it comes to this quote, it 
it's not the case, obviously, 

147
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,840
that Oh well, George Martin can 
never create an ugly villain or 

148
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,040
every villain has to be pretty. 
That's not what he's saying. 

149
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,040
What he's saying here is that 
you can't look at the characters

150
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,640
in his story and say, oh, that's
a pretty person, they must be 

151
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,520
the hero. 
Or, oh, that's an ugly person, 

152
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,120
must be the villain. 
What he's doing with Aryan is 

153
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,000
showing the exact opposite. 
You have to look at the 

154
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,000
character's actions. 
And what we see of Aryan is, 

155
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,880
yes, he is considered handsome 
by the standards of Westeros, 

156
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,400
even though, funnily enough, 
Jordan Martin mentions the 

157
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,240
villains wearing black, and 
Aryan is traditionally wearing 

158
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,840
black. 
But he is considered handsome, 

159
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,280
again, by the standards of 
Westeros. 

160
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,440
But he is very obviously a 
villain, and he's a villain by 

161
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,280
choice. 
What he's choosing to do is 

162
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,400
evil. 
And so that's what Jordan Martin

163
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,800
is getting at, is to say I'm 
creating characters that make 

164
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,480
the choices of good and evil, 
and you've got to look at that 

165
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,080
rather than how they look on the
outside. 

166
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:38,200
He's almost like a version of 
the high school type archetype 

167
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,360
movie where the handsome guy is 
the villain, like the guy who 

168
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,560
has everything, the privileged 
rich kid that like the plucky 

169
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,280
younger boy is trying to 
overcome. 

170
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,880
He he's he would more fit in 
that sort of thing. 

171
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,120
But yeah, in fantasy, you're 
right, it isn't that isn't the 

172
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,240
norm, or it is maybe sometimes a
norm, but this is a trope that 

173
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,480
George is is playing with some 
somewhat uniquely. 

174
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,760
Personally can't think of a 
fancier Targaryen. 

175
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,040
We tried to think through the 
whole line of of 300 years or 

176
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,000
so, and Aegon the Unworthy might
be the only one that's really on

177
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,640
that level in terms of just 
being outrageous with his 

178
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,160
appearance. 
Fancy being kind of underselling

179
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,520
you, and that's kind of telling,
isn't it? 

180
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,960
It is. 
I mean, if if you're being 

181
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,600
compared to Aegon the unworthy, 
something is fundamentally wrong

182
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,400
with you. 
Aegon is ugly in every sense of 

183
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,720
the word, except for maybe 
partly in his youth he's 

184
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,120
considered handsome, but 
certainly by the end of his life

185
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,000
he's not considered handsome. 
And morally, personally, no. 

186
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,680
He is a very ugly person. 
And I think the same is true 

187
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,360
with Aryan. 
Yes, as a young man he's 

188
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:45,920
considered handsome, but he is 
incredibly vain, arrogant, cool,

189
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,360
selfish. 
And again, these are the choices

190
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,280
that he's making to be the we 
see him deliberately choosing to

191
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,360
be this way. 
So it's showing that yes, you 

192
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,240
can have this appearance on the 
outside, but within, if you're 

193
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,400
still making those choices, you 
are very ugly indeed. 

194
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,720
Yeah, it's definitely a form of 
vanity, but honestly, as a fan, 

195
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,240
it's it's pretty cool. 
We like our villains to be 

196
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,920
fancy, you know, it's kind of, 
it just makes them more fun it. 

197
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,640
Is, I mean, it's, it's, you 
know, it's what you'd call 

198
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,480
extra. 
He's a he's a very extra person.

199
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,760
And you can't overdo it. 
But as we just said, we haven't 

200
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,320
seen a whole lot of other 
Targaryens that do it. 

201
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,920
So he is he is outstanding there
and and almost unique. 

202
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,040
Now, the World of Ice and Fire 
app says the Aryan was quote, 

203
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,480
the perfect image of a 
Targaryen. 

204
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,200
And how exactly do we interpret 
that? 

205
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,880
I mean, so it's not the overly 
fancy part because he is a 

206
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,360
little unique in that, as we 
just said. 

207
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,120
So what? 
What exactly do we mean? 

208
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,000
And and and what is? 
What can we glean from all that 

209
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,720
in general? 
I mean, I think the word that's 

210
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,720
really important there is image 
because there there is an image 

211
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,520
of a Targaryen. 
It's it's an image of something,

212
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:55,200
or I should say someone who is 
almost otherworldly beautiful. 

213
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,920
This is closer to gods in the 
common run of men is sort of 

214
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,040
the, you know, the saying here 
even to the extent that we see 

215
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,600
in Aryan 2 and he sees Placeo no
Mar and he supposedly looks like

216
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,680
a Targaryen. 
And she's like, oh, this is this

217
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,640
is a little bit off putting to 
me. 

218
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,880
I think what Yandel is getting 
at in the World of Ice and Fire 

219
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,560
by saying Aryan is the perfect 
image of a Targaryen is saying, 

220
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:20,920
yeah, you can look like you 
absolutely belong to House 

221
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,920
Targaryen with all of those 
genetic hallmarks, all of that 

222
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,240
look of this sort of what's 
considered in Western's 

223
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,000
otherworldly beauty. 
But again, his choices are very,

224
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,480
very, very ugly. 
I guess we could if we think of 

225
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,400
other houses along the same 
line. 

226
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,480
Atlanta. 
A Lannister, you have a look for

227
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,600
a Lannister, you would expect 
him to look really wealthy. 

228
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,400
Whereas a Northerner, 
particularly a Stark, you might 

229
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,720
think they'd have fine clothing,
but they wouldn't necessarily be

230
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,680
bedecked, right? 
They wouldn't have lots of 

231
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:49,960
jewels. 
Maybe there's some silver they 

232
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,480
got to look like a Lord, but 
they wouldn't look like, well, 

233
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,120
they wouldn't like a Lannister. 
They wouldn't look like a 

234
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,920
Targaryen. 
So I think when you see perfect 

235
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,920
image of a Targaryen, there is 
sort of a, there's an image 

236
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,480
associated with each house that 
kind of fits that way, like the 

237
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,480
grey Joey. 
Well, their ideal image might be

238
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:11,000
bedecked in the the jewelry 
taken from other houses and. 

239
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,240
I think, you know, to some 
extent maybe it's getting at 

240
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,200
this idea of to be a Targaryen 
is to be an inheritor willingly 

241
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,920
or not of the legacy of the 
dragon Lords that these were 

242
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,400
their ancestors were people who 
ruled the vast empire, commanded

243
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,720
Dragons, were sorcerer Princess,
were ruling in a way that no one

244
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,520
before or after them really was.
So. 

245
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,520
And again, we're going to talk 
about that when it comes to 

246
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,120
Aryan specifically. 
But when Yandel calls Aryan the 

247
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,200
perfect image of a of a 
Targaryen, is he getting at this

248
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,840
idea that to be a Targaryen in 
some ways for some of them is to

249
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,240
be arrogant and vain and 
commanding? 

250
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:56,000
Because you literally believe, 
again for some Targaryens that 

251
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,160
you are above other people, that
you are capital E, exceptional? 

252
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,680
And Aryan gives us another 
example of this with Dark Star 

253
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,680
where he specifically looks like
a Targaryen to him but but knows

254
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:13,040
this man is bad news. 
And Sansa very early to arc 

255
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:18,040
lives this out personally with 
the whole concept which we can 

256
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,240
narrow down to beauty is in the 
eye of the beholder where 

257
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,560
everything about Joffrey is 
pretty or handsome or beautiful 

258
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,000
about him early on. 
And then, you know, after a few 

259
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,280
things like killing your father 
and beating her up several 

260
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,040
times, she starts to see a lot 
of things, including some of 

261
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,360
those things that she thought 
were pretty before, they are now

262
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,000
ugly. 
So it is very much relative, 

263
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,880
right? 
And it's all backed by things 

264
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,320
that maybe your subconscious 
isn't clocking at the time. 

265
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,320
She might just have realized 
that through all this, that, 

266
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,120
huh, I wasn't necessarily just 
attracted to this boy, was I? 

267
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,280
I was attracted to who he was 
and who I thought he was and 

268
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,920
etcetera. 
So Aaron's kind of a predecessor

269
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,640
of this concept, even though he 
was written after Joffrey in 

270
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,640
real life. 
But he's that sort of person and

271
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,480
he got to live a full life sort 
of at least a lot longer than 

272
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,640
Joffrey. 
So we have a a better idea of 

273
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,000
what the long term of this type 
of character looks like when 

274
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,480
they have a chance to live 
beyond their teenage years. 

275
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,480
Not a good thing, mind you, but 
hey, it's interesting. 

276
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,840
Did both unintentionally poison 
themselves though? 

277
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,880
True that. 
Hey, how about that? 

278
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,760
Forgot about that one. 
Now here's where the characters 

279
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,040
are directly compared in the 
text. 

280
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,000
So Sansa is afraid to speak her 
mind about Joffrey. 

281
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,280
Lady Olenna sees through that 
easily and presses her quote. 

282
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,440
Yes, all the Lannisters are 
lions, and when a Tyrell breaks 

283
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,800
wind, it smells just like a 
rose, The old woman snapped. 

284
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,720
But how kind is he? 
How clever has he a good heart? 

285
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,240
A gentle hand? 
Is he chivalrous as benefits a 

286
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,440
king? 
Will he cherish Marjorie and 

287
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,560
treat her tenderly? 
Protect your honor as he would 

288
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,599
his own? 
He will. 

289
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:12,359
Sansa lied. 
He is very, very calmly. 

290
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,720
You said that. 
You know, child, some say you 

291
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,000
are as big a fool as butter 
bumps here, and I am starting to

292
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,040
believe them. 
Comely. 

293
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,560
I have taught my Marjorie what 
Comely is worth, I hope somewhat

294
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,360
less than a mummer's fart. 
Aryan bright fire was comely 

295
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:32,360
enough, but a monster all the 
same. 

296
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:38,680
We can assume similarly, though 
not so many high born a sense of

297
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,640
course, girls made the same 
mistake when encountering Aryan 

298
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,400
for the first time to see, oh, 
this guy's really handsome and 

299
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,040
making that same assumption that
looks good equals acts good or 

300
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,760
is good. 
And of course that's a mistake. 

301
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,720
But many people make that 
mistake. 

302
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,640
It's it's not about gender. 
Of course that goes all for 

303
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,560
people who just are attracted to
somebody. 

304
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,120
But for Aryan, I don't know, 
even though we hear about him 

305
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:03,680
later, you know, hiding his 
behavior from his father. 

306
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,880
I doubt he's concerned with 
hiding his behavior here or 

307
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,680
trying to be good to very often.
I don't know that he has the 

308
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,080
patience for it. 
Doesn't come off as someone 

309
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,200
that's really pretending to be 
good. 

310
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,880
He's just right off the bat. 
Yeah, I'm. 

311
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,080
I'm a jerk. 
I'm evil. 

312
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,960
You can perceive me that way. 
I don't care. 

313
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,920
Well. 
And the other thing I wanted to 

314
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,560
point out, which is it's 
somewhat related, Elena is 

315
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,320
pointing this out. 
Elena wouldn't have known Aryan 

316
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,080
personally. 
I think he was like 3 or 4 when 

317
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,960
he died. 
But her family definitely would 

318
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,360
have known Aryan personally, at 
very least by sight. 

319
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,520
I can very well imagine the Red 
Wings were at court or their 

320
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,520
friends or their family was at 
court. 

321
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,400
So this is someone that Elena 
can speak to with some. 

322
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,720
Personal authority, yeah, that's
for sure. 

323
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,400
He was certainly a well known 
commodity within the family. 

324
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,960
And she was almost married to a 
Targaryen, as we know. 

325
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,760
So yeah, there's a number of 
reasons she would have known. 

326
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,280
I mean, she's just in the know 
anyway. 

327
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,360
She's a person that makes a 
point to know and has insider 

328
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,840
information on top of that. 
And then of course, Sansa does 

329
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,480
admit after being pressed that 
Joffrey is a monster. 

330
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,000
She uses basically the same 
language that is used about 

331
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,360
Aryan. 
It's not a subtle parallel, 

332
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,280
they're of the same archetype. 
Ironically, it's Joffrey who's 

333
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,560
the direct child of incest, 
while it's not common in his 

334
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,360
ancestry. 
While Aryan has it very commonly

335
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,920
in his ancestry. 
But his actual parents were not 

336
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,400
both Targaryen. 
So these little funny twists and

337
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,440
turns, let's use that as a segue
to discuss his early life. 

338
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,760
All right, Nina, tell us about 
his birth and parentage and all 

339
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,840
that, but what do we know? 
As you point out, Aryan is not 

340
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,040
the child of Tarnarian siblings.
He's born roughly between 191 

341
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,720
and 194. 
It's not entirely clear, but 

342
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,280
it's a relatively narrow window.
But he's the second son of 

343
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,400
Prince Makar Tarnarian and Lady 
Diana Dee Daron. 

344
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,320
His older brother is rough. 
Especially about one to three 

345
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,360
years older than he is. 
And then he has two younger 

346
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,760
brothers. 
Of course we know Eamon, later 

347
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,360
Maester Eamon and Aegon our Egg,
and two younger sisters Day, 

348
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,920
Ella and Ray. 
We don't know when Diana Dane 

349
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,960
died. 
She was dead by two O 9 because 

350
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,080
Egg mentions that his mother is 
dead when Dunk first meets him 

351
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,160
going at the tourney. 
But we don't know how old Aryan 

352
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,880
was. 
He may have been lesson, he may 

353
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,560
have been early teens. 
It could have been the day 

354
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,080
before the tourney. 
We don't know. 

355
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,560
So unfortunately, hopefully we 
get more on on Diana Dane and 

356
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,000
and their relationship and and 
future tales. 

357
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,760
Given we compared Aryan to Aegon
the Unworthy, that would be 

358
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,680
something that they have a bit 
of in common is a lack of a 

359
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,000
mother around at least for a 
substantial portion, if not 

360
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,600
nearly all of their early life. 
And while that is not a reason 

361
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,560
by itself to turn into the type 
of person they were, especially 

362
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,120
given, you know, neither of them
had brothers that were like 

363
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,960
them. 
In fact, they both had brothers 

364
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,840
who were quite good. 
It does certainly make for some 

365
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,800
conflict within the family and 
is not the ideal upbringing. 

366
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,560
So what does this timing tell us
as far as what we know about 

367
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,800
Aryan and things like Ashford 
Meadow and, and how old he was 

368
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,080
and, and his position in the 
family, things like that? 

369
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,640
It's possible he was as young as
15 when he was dusting. 

370
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,360
I tend to not think that. 
That seems to be, even in 

371
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,880
Westeros, considered a pretty 
young age to be knighted. 

372
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,240
Jamie thinks of himself as being
very young when he was knighted 

373
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,960
at 15. 
So I tend to think that Aryan is

374
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:47,560
more like 16-17, maybe 18. 
And I say this because Dunk 

375
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,440
himself thinks in The Hedge 
Knight that Aryan is round about

376
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:57,000
the same age that he is, and 
Dunk himself is around 1617 

377
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,200
years old. 
That also just makes sense. 1617

378
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,840
is a pretty typical age for an 
aristocratic Westerosi boy to be

379
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,760
knighted, so that would 
completely make sense to me that

380
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,880
Aryan is a newer or newer knight
at the time of the Tourney of 

381
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,000
Ashford. 
I think it also just makes sense

382
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,320
from a narrative level and a 
thematic level. 

383
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,920
The Hedley in particular really 
wants us as readers to compare 

384
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,800
and contrast Aryan and Dunk, and
I think that comparison just 

385
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,760
works so much better if they 
are, if not exact birthday 

386
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,880
twins, near enough to be 
birthday twins, really just 

387
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,520
about the same age. 
That's pretty neat, yeah. 

388
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:41,320
And it's also kind of a unusual 
parallel between the two of 

389
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,680
them. 
That's pretty young for either 

390
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,480
of them to be in a tournament, 
whether you're a hedge knight. 

391
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,120
And of course, Dunk is on his 
own. 

392
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,440
Had he still been under Sir 
Arlen, there's no way he would 

393
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,160
have been in that tournament. 
He wouldn't have been in a 

394
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,920
tournament for years. 
There's a reason he wasn't 

395
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,040
ready. 
And he didn't do that well in 

396
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,040
the jousting portion. 
In fact, that he did quite 

397
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,880
poorly. 
But Aryan, for the same reason, 

398
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,240
shouldn't have been there. 
But he comes from a family, as 

399
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,400
we'll discuss, well, a 
particular father, not 

400
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,400
necessarily the whole family 
where he was being pushed into a

401
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,000
warlike role. 
And that certainly has a big 

402
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,400
impact on him. 
Again, doesn't necessarily 

403
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,280
explain the extreme parts of his
personality, but it does explain

404
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,360
why he was jousting at a young 
age. 

405
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,760
What about him being a Squire? 
A lot of people in position to 

406
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,440
be a knight. 
He wasn't Sir Aryan at this 

407
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,080
point. 
Do you think being on a nightly 

408
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,160
track though he would have 
probably been Squire? 

409
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,320
Maybe his father or someone else
in the family. 

410
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,600
I actually. 
Think he might have been 

411
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,880
knighted by this point, 
especially if he is including it

412
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,200
at Ashford. 
I would say it's probably likely

413
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,280
you know it's not. 
Again, it's not unusual for 

414
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,720
16/17/18 year olds in Westeros, 
especially among the 

415
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,800
aristocratic class, to be nice. 
And you look at someone like a 

416
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,160
Loris. 
Again, you look at someone like 

417
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,560
a Jamie, you look at even a 
Rhaegar is 17 when he's gousting

418
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,760
at Casterly Rock. 
So it's not. 

419
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,400
It's young, certainly, and 
everyone recognizes that it's 

420
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,320
young, but it's not completely 
out of the norm. 

421
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,440
I would say it's possible to 
Aryan squired for someone 

422
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,480
specific, but I'd say it's also 
possible if not probable. 

423
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,000
But he didn't. 
And I say that because it 

424
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,480
doesn't seem to be typical. 
Certainly it's not required that

425
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,280
you Squire for anyone in order 
to be knighted in Westeros, but 

426
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,800
I also don't see it as typical 
among Targaryens that the 

427
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,840
Princess Squire for anyone to be
knighted. 

428
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,640
There were certainly are 
examples. 

429
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,280
Darryl the Daring, the son of 
his heiress, the first Ghost to 

430
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,480
Squire for Lord Hightower, but 
we don't hear about, for 

431
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,840
example, his older son squiring 
for anyone. 

432
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,240
So I think maybe more likely 
Aryan is just growing up being 

433
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,240
trained by the Master of Arms at
the Red Keep at Summerhall. 

434
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,120
Maybe he's being trained by one 
or more of the Kingsguard. 

435
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,360
Maybe his father is taking part 
in this. 

436
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,480
And then if he is knighted, and 
again, I think that's likely 

437
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,920
that he is, that he's competing,
maybe he's knighted either by a 

438
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,680
knight of the Kingsguard or 
again by his own father. 

439
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,600
Yeah, that master of arms at the
Red Keep is certainly a good 

440
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,560
possibility. 
Whoever took Fireball's place 

441
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,680
after the Black Fire Belly was 
all settled, maybe since this is

442
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,640
the song of Ice and Fire, we 
have to take his opposite. 

443
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,560
So ice ball or ice square? 
Ice square. 

444
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,320
That's right. 
It has to be square it. 

445
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,360
Has to be a different shape. 
Yeah. 

446
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,000
You can't just go another 
another ball there. 

447
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,280
Ice cube. 
Ice cube. 

448
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,920
What's the next man? 
How did we miss that Ice cube? 

449
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:26,880
There we go. 
We got there. 

450
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,960
It's definitely ice cube, Sir. 
Ice Cube. 

451
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,760
That assumes that he was born in
King's Landing, or at least was 

452
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,280
raised there. 
That seems likely, right? 

453
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,720
Or or probable. 
I would say yes, we do know that

454
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,240
make our is given Summerhall as 
his own seat and becomes or is 

455
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,040
at least as styled as Prince of 
Summerhall. 

456
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,760
But that's not until after the 
first Black Fire rebellion, 

457
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,160
which is of course after Aryan 
is born. 

458
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,360
So I think it's more likely the 
Aryan. 

459
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,880
If we can guess anywhere, it's 
probably the Red Keeping King's 

460
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,640
Landing. 
Could his parents have been 

461
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,560
traveling somewhere door That's 
possible. 

462
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,120
It would be amusing to think of 
one or more of make ours 

463
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,760
children being born at Starfall 
if he's traveling to meet 

464
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,120
Diana's family. 
But the more likely answer is 

465
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,080
that they're just born at the 
Red Keep the way that most 

466
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,360
Targaryens are certainly make 
our also isn't Prince of 

467
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,160
Dragonstone. 
No one is expecting make our to 

468
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,760
become king. 
He's not the heir, so there's 

469
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,480
really no reason for him and 
Diana to be there or be having 

470
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,960
their children there. 
So, yeah, probably just A and 

471
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,040
again, if we're thinking of him 
as to compare and contrast to 

472
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,960
Dunk, to paraphrase Egg Duncan 
Egg, when they're when they're 

473
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,120
talking the heads tonight, 
they're both from King's 

474
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,040
Landing. 
And you know, Dunk kind of 

475
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,760
ruefully says, yeah, you're from
the top of the hill and I'm from

476
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,240
the bottom of the hill. 
So again, it's that sort of 

477
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,880
compare and contrast that they 
are so similar, but they are so 

478
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,280
different. 
Yeah, good point. 

479
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,320
What about his name though, is 
that should we supposed to read 

480
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,480
into that at all? 
Like a Makar was very 

481
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,680
traditional with his names and 
his just general styling and and

482
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,560
his posturing about being a 
Targaryen. 

483
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,360
So what can we read into, if 
anything, this name Aryan? 

484
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,680
Well, I think to your point, 
Makar certainly is a 

485
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,120
traditionalist and it may have 
just ended there, but I do think

486
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:22,840
that there is a way to read the 
names of the sons of Makar, not 

487
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,200
his daughters, unfortunately, 
but the sons of Makar as having 

488
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,160
very specifically historical 
Targaryen names. 

489
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,840
So you've got Daron, obviously 
named after his grandfather, 

490
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,680
Daron the Second, and any other 
Daron that came with the now 

491
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,080
Targaryen. 
You've got Aryan who is probably

492
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,040
I would say named after Agan the
Conqueror's father, Lord Aryan 

493
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,520
Targaryen. 
You've got Amon just like Amon 

494
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,880
the Dragon Knight, like Amon 
Prince of Dragonstone. 

495
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,040
And then you've got Egg. 
And we've got plenty of Eggans 

496
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,560
in the history of House 
Targaryen. 

497
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,280
And the reason I say this is 
very specific is because I think

498
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:06,400
Makar is using his sons names to
really capture that Targaryen 

499
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,120
legacy and specifically take it 
away from the black fires at the

500
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,440
time that Aryan is born and 
really at the time that make our

501
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,560
children are being born. 
More generally. 

502
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,440
There are also black fire 
children being born it it seems 

503
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,160
like Mohan of Tie Rod is almost 
constantly pregnant between 184 

504
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,440
and 196. 
And so there are plenty of black

505
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,680
fire sons and at least 2 black 
fire daughters who are being 

506
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,960
born in this time. 
And we know Damon Blackfyre 

507
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,840
picks at least four historical 
Targaryen names for his own 

508
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,080
sons. 
He's got an Eagan and an Eamon. 

509
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,200
He's got his demon. 
And then he's also got Amy's the

510
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,320
fifth son. 
And we don't know the names of 

511
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,000
his other children besides 
Hagon. 

512
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,400
So it's possible that as Makar 
is seeing all of these young 

513
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,040
Blackfyres being born and 
getting these historical 

514
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,720
Targaryen names, and as he's 
seeing these the beginnings of 

515
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,600
what will become the Black Fire 
and loyalist factions forming 

516
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,880
and that proto Black fire 
faction really rallying behind 

517
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,000
Damon is the spitting image of 
Egg and the Conqueror. 

518
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,960
And someone who stands for the 
values of Egg and the Conqueror 

519
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,200
again, in their opinion, make 
our may have been thinking no, 

520
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,760
no, no, I want to re emphasize 
we're the heirs of Egg and the 

521
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,120
Conqueror. 
We're the ones who are the 

522
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,000
dynasts. 
Yes, you may have been 

523
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,760
legitimated, but you are not 
Targaryens. 

524
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,800
You are black fires. 
We are the heirs to the 

525
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,160
Targaryen tradition. 
We will be the ones to use the 

526
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,000
historical Targaryen. 
Names and you can see Aryan 

527
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,760
picking up on that and maybe 
just a corrupted, distorted 

528
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,400
version of that and channeling 
cruelty and and pride in ways 

529
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,960
that his father doesn't. 
But certainly the idea that he 

530
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,280
was raised to be anti Black Fire
makes a lot of sense. 

531
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,600
And it's something to consider 
what a four or five year old 

532
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,640
Aryan would have been thinking 
or experiencing that young at 

533
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,760
the Red Keep where there may 
have been the Black Fire twins, 

534
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,160
Egan and Eamon, and if not Damon
Blackfyre himself just before 

535
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,160
the rebellion where they would 
have all, you know, died. 

536
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,880
So an interesting young memory 
for Aryan to have is. 

537
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,560
Yeah, I remember those. 
I remember those kids. 

538
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,040
I remember. 
Well, I I was four or five years

539
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,880
old when they went off to die in
battle when they were 12. 

540
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,280
Yeah. 
So it's interesting times he was

541
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,800
born into. 
There were so many Princess and 

542
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,040
princelings or people that were 
roughly on that rank and with 

543
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,200
this level of tension. 
But then afterwards, you know, 

544
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,200
things changed. 
But at the time of his birth, he

545
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,640
was pretty low down in 
succession. 

546
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,840
It wasn't he wasn't protecting 
his own rights so much as the 

547
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,760
rights of his family. 
That's what he was taught. 

548
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,040
At least that's what his father 
would project. 

549
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,760
So, but let's be more precise 
with that. 

550
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,400
Where? 
Where was he exactly? 

551
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,040
In the line of succession? 
Well, you're right to say he's 

552
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,320
pretty low. 
We don't know the exact place 

553
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,440
because we don't know the exact 
birthdays of some of the folks 

554
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,200
involved here. 
But we can say he was at least 8

555
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,360
because he's definitely behind 
his uncles Baylor, Harris and 

556
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,280
Regal, and he's definitely 
behind cousin Valar. 

557
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,600
That's Baylor's son, of course, 
and he's definitely be behind 

558
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,720
his own father, Makar, and his 
own brother Darren. 

559
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,640
We don't know if Mataris was 
born before or after Aryan, so 

560
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,800
he could have been even lower. 
I don't think Regal's children 

561
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,680
were born by this point. 
It's, I guess, theoretically 

562
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,000
possible, but I don't think 
that's actually true. 

563
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,480
So Aryan, nevertheless, is still
incredibly low. 

564
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,320
And that's an important point 
here because we're getting to a 

565
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,680
moment in House Targaryen where 
a few generations ago how 

566
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,400
Targaryen looked like it might 
implode on itself because the 

567
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,240
male line, legitimate male line 
of Aegon the Third died out it 

568
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,280
the throne then passed to 
Becerra the Second, who only had

569
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,440
one dynastically eligible son, 
the future Aegon 4th. 

570
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,760
And the future Aegon the 4th had
only 1 dynastically eligible 

571
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,960
son, the future Darren the 
Second. 

572
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,560
So when Darren the Second came 
the throne, that was it. 

573
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,160
There were no more legitimate 
dynastic male line members of 

574
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,040
House Targaryen. 
But what Darren and his sons did

575
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,160
is become very successful in 
repopulating House Targaryen. 

576
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,240
In fact arguably too successful.
Because now the problem in 

577
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,320
Aryans generation is not Oh no, 
what happens if there are no 

578
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,680
more Targaryen Princess to 
inherit? 

579
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,080
It's Oh no, we've got too many 
Targaryen Princess and not 

580
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,000
enough for all of them to do. 
This is exactly why Aryan's 

581
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,720
younger brother Eamon is going 
to be sent to the Citadel. 

582
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,680
Too many Dragons are as 
dangerous as too few, in the 

583
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,800
words of Daron the Second. 
So Aryan is very much growing up

584
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,120
with the idea that he is at best
a spare. 

585
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,320
The spare of the spare. 
He is not important, 

586
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,080
dynastically speaking, and 
there's no reason for Aryan to 

587
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,040
think growing up, that Valar and
Mataris are not going to have 

588
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,160
sons of his own who are going to
push him down. 

589
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,840
And Heiress might have sons of 
his own who will push him down. 

590
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,640
And Regal might have sons of his
own, and they will have sons of 

591
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,760
his own, and Daron will have 
sons of his own. 

592
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,480
Aryan will become less and less 
important with every passing 

593
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,320
year, dynastically speaking, at 
least, if everything goes as 

594
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,240
everyone thinks it will. 
And this is a new outlook for 

595
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,560
any Targaryen of this era where 
there's no longer Dragons and 

596
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,640
there's so many Targaryens. 
The last time there were a lot 

597
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,400
of Targaryens was I suppose, 
under Jeharis and Al San and 

598
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,240
well, things went differently 
and those were different times. 

599
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,840
So this is this is a very 
different outlook for for Aryan 

600
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,760
and might be part of why he 
acted out. 

601
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,600
Again, it doesn't explain being 
sadistic or cruel, but it might 

602
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,360
explain his need to make a name 
for himself. 

603
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,520
Like a lot of second sons in 
Westeros too. 

604
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,360
What about his dragon egg? 
He did have one, and he probably

605
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,199
got it at birthright. 
What about it? 

606
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480
Say yes, it seems to have been 
still a tradition, even though 

607
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,040
we're now a good almost half 
century out from the death of 

608
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,760
the last dragon. 
The Targaryens are still being 

609
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,880
given dragon eggs because Egg 
talks about this, and Egg 

610
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,040
describes Aryan's egg 
specifically and says that it 

611
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,639
looked as though it was made of 
gold and silver with veins of 

612
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,760
fire running through it. 
That's like him. 

613
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,040
He's the extra Targaryen and he 
gets an extra egg to go with it.

614
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,320
I was going to say that if there
was ever an egg to match its 

615
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,960
owner, this was this was it. 
And it sort of sounds similar in

616
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,120
in vague ways to some of the 
other eggs that we know. 

617
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,480
It's kind of like the Syrians 
egg. 

618
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,240
Danny calls that one sort of 
cream and gold. 

619
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,840
It's sort of like Princess 
Elena's egg, the youngest 

620
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,440
daughter of egg and the third 
it's that's one's platinum white

621
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,920
and gold. 
But I, I think honestly, it 

622
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,640
doesn't really matter where 
Aryan's egg came from. 

623
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,000
It is sort of draconic lineage. 
I don't think there's any sort 

624
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,280
of grand conspiracy or some sort
of grand theory around it. 

625
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,000
The point is exactly what you 
say, Aryan's egg matches the 

626
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,840
owner. 
Aryan likes to be called Aryan 

627
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,960
Bright Flame. 
Aryan wants to think of himself 

628
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,800
as fancy and gilded and covered 
in flames. 

629
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,720
So of course he needs to have an
egg that's going to match that. 

630
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,160
And if we were to find out that 
it wasn't given to him in the 

631
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,320
crib and he picked it himself, 
that would explain a lot. 

632
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,440
But he probably did get it in 
the crib. 

633
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,360
But still, I, I like to imagine 
this, this alternative version a

634
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:58,120
little bit when he was say 2 to 
5 is what we were saying in 

635
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,640
regards to the Blackfyre twins, 
the first black fire rebellion 

636
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,120
broke out. 
This would have been rather 

637
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,320
formative. 
Not just these kids that he 

638
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,880
would have known and maybe been 
competitive with going off to 

639
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,360
die, but so many other things. 
Let's talk about that. 

640
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,520
Of course, Aryan is way too 
young to be seeing anything 

641
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,440
first hand with the first Black 
Fire Rebellion. 

642
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,600
He's way too young to even be a 
pede, much less a Squire, but 

643
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,800
he's definitely not too young to
have at least a general 

644
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,040
awareness of what's going on. 
Because you think about Ricken 

645
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,040
in A Game of Thrones, he's 
around the same age when Ned and

646
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,160
Catelyn both leave. 
And we can see how incredibly 

647
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,960
traumatic that is for poor 
Ricken, who doesn't know all of 

648
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,080
the political machinations but 
definitely knows Mom and Dad are

649
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,280
gone. 
And I don't know what's going on

650
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,240
or if or when they'll ever be 
back. 

651
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,080
Which of course they're not. 
So Aryan, I think would have 

652
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,000
known there is a war going on 
and Dad and Uncle are going off 

653
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,520
to war and they may or may not 
come back from that. 

654
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,320
Of course they do. 
And the rebellion is a victory 

655
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,520
and for for House Targaryen, but
it's still a serious war. 

656
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,920
There are still casualties. 
There are very likely people at 

657
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,280
court that Aryan would have been
aware or been told were 

658
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,760
casualties of the war. 
And so I think even at this 

659
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,360
young age, Aryan is 
understanding or beginning to 

660
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,240
understand, my father and my 
uncle are war heroes. 

661
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:30,240
They are big figures, especially
his father, to live up to. 

662
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,120
They are the they are the 
figures of this sort of 

663
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,520
triumphant dynasty. 
And we've overcome the biggest 

664
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,360
challenge it's ever faced. 
But at the same time, Damon's 

665
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,760
younger sons and his widow 
escaped with bitter steel. 

666
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,640
So they're still out there. 
These belligerent cousins still 

667
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,200
think that the Iron Throne is 
theirs and they might come back 

668
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,240
someday. 
There is always this threat out 

669
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:59,120
there that they might invade and
next time we might not win the 

670
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,920
war. 
And with someone like Makar, let

671
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,760
alone Bloodraven being anti 
Blackfire hardliners, you could 

672
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,160
see that this would have been 
imbued in Aryan's mind, let 

673
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,360
alone for the obvious that they 
would overthrow his whole family

674
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,200
potentially if given the chance.
So his father would see a lot of

675
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,880
this very straightforwardly. 
They would, they're still out 

676
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,320
there. 
He's not a slacker make artist 

677
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,600
to come off of somebody that 
would just ignore that threat 

678
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,840
out there. 
And in fact, there would be 

679
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,520
other threats. 
And that's the sort of energy he

680
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,320
would bring to the table and 
that Aryan probably pick up on. 

681
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,040
So what would that look like? 
The scenario of Aryan and his 

682
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,200
father, the war hero, with this 
threat still being out there, 

683
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,480
yet they're still very low in 
the line of succession at this 

684
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,840
point. 
Makar being the type of man he 

685
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,560
is, this is a pretty interesting
scenario for a child. 

686
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,600
Not typical. 
What do we think of it? 

687
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,800
Well, no, it I mean, it is an 
interesting question of, of what

688
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,760
their relationship is like as as
Aryan is growing up. 

689
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,240
And you know, to your point, 
Makar is proud, he is prickly. 

690
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,200
He is someone who takes his duty
to his family very, very, very 

691
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,800
seriously, especially in the 
lead up to the hedge night. 

692
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,760
You know, to his credit, Makar 
is not his bluster. 

693
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,240
He is a veteran. 
He was a war leader. 

694
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:25,520
He did lead the Targaryen forces
at the Battle of the Red Grass 

695
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,960
Fields. 
He was an essential part of that

696
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,760
victory. 
And Makar's not wrong if he 

697
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,160
thinks the black fires are still
out there, they very well may 

698
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,560
stage an invasion in the future.
And Makar may also be thinking, 

699
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,040
if they do invade, if and when 
that happens, it's going to 

700
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:51,000
likely be me and my sons who are
going to have to answer that 

701
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,520
because we are the spares. 
Baylor is the heir. 

702
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,160
His sons are the heirs. 
My older brothers are going to 

703
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,800
come before me. 
I'm the most dynastically 

704
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,960
extraneous. 
So are my sons. 

705
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,080
So we're going to have to be the
defenders of House Targaryen. 

706
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,160
We're going to have to take up 
the sword and drive our enemies 

707
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,200
back across the Narrow Sea. 
Because that's falling to us as 

708
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:18,320
as our duty. 
So I think from a very early age

709
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,560
with Aryan, Makar would not have
just encouraged Aryan to excel 

710
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,520
at his Marshall training, but 
would have enforced it, would 

711
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,040
have demanded it. 
Because in Makar's mind, that is

712
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,400
what you do. 
And you know, to the to make 

713
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,200
ours credit, this is not 
something that Makar himself 

714
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,760
would have come up with. 
This is very standard practice 

715
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,480
for young Westerosi boys, or 
aristocratic I should say, 

716
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,160
Westerosi boys. 
Even in eras where there is 

717
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,720
peace, even in eras where no one
is necessarily expecting there 

718
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:55,040
to be a war tomorrow. 
These young aristocratic 

719
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:00,320
Westerosi boys are almost across
the table, being trained for war

720
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,440
from young ages, having weapons 
put in their hand and told this 

721
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,680
is how you fight your enemies in
combat. 

722
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,560
This is how strategy works. 
This is how you command men on a

723
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,880
battlefield. 
You have to know these things. 

724
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,080
This is an essential part of 
your training. 

725
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,720
And so I think that Makar is 
really part of that in saying my

726
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,840
sons are going to be warriors 
and I'm going to make sure that 

727
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,080
they're warriors. 
Yeah, he seems to have been 

728
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,080
pretty unforgiving and when it 
came to his children, his sons 

729
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,720
especially, we here in the hedge
night him say that in the case 

730
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:35,760
of Deron, he would change or I 
swear I'll see him dead. 

731
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,360
That is something we have to 
extrapolate and think about how 

732
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,720
he was to his other sons. 
Now, if Arian was a little more,

733
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:49,160
if if not a lot more unnatural 
in terms of straightforward 

734
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,320
knightly prowess. 
Setting aside the virtues of a 

735
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,760
night, he certainly knew how to 
swing a sword and ride a horse 

736
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,760
and all that without 
embarrassing himself too much. 

737
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:03,360
But we still have to assume he 
was harsh about learning these 

738
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,080
things, don't we? 
I think that's right. 

739
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,200
I mean, you know, in that quote,
as you say, Nygar isn't talking 

740
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,040
about Aryan specifically, but I 
don't think his attitude would 

741
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,840
have changed that much between 
Darren and Aryan in the sense of

742
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:23,000
this enforcing of their 
destinies as warriors and as 

743
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,440
Knights. 
And you know, it's we see this 

744
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,160
in in an extreme way with 
someone like Randall Tarley, who

745
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,360
is literally brutalizing Sam for
years, literally abusing him for

746
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:41,280
years, because in Randall's 
mind, the only way to be Lord 

747
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,240
Tarley is to be a warrior and a 
leader in war. 

748
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:48,800
So if you can't do that, then 
I'm going to brutalize you into 

749
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,480
doing that. 
Now, to be very clear, I am not 

750
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,600
saying that make our did exactly
the same thing that Randall 

751
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,520
Tarley was doing. 
But where I think that there may

752
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:03,440
be some overlap is that mindset 
in saying if I have a son, then 

753
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,920
my son has to be a warrior. 
In other words, failure is not 

754
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,800
an option. 
He's going to be a warrior and 

755
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,720
I'm going to make sure that 
happens. 

756
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,760
There is no no in this scenario.
There is no I could get to 

757
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,600
choose another path. 
You're going to be a warrior and

758
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,080
I'm going to keep pushing you 
until you do that. 

759
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,080
It's maybe a lighter version of 
Randall Tarley and Sam. 

760
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,440
Certainly that's about as 
extreme as it gets. 

761
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,440
Makar wasn't out here 
threatening to kill his own 

762
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,240
children. 
He did say I'll see him dead, 

763
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:36,440
I'll swear. 
But I think that was, I think he

764
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,120
was just saying that because he 
didn't actually kill him. 

765
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,400
He did see him dead, but he 
didn't 'cause that directly. 

766
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,560
So yeah, so maybe if if Sam and 
Randall are a 10, maybe Makar is

767
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,560
like a 7 1/2 or an 8 on that 
scale. 

768
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,440
But as far as him being cruel, 
as we've said, you can't pin all

769
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:01,840
that on Makar because it didn't 
appear in Aegon or Amon or 

770
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,120
Deron. 
In fact, Aegon specifically is 

771
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:09,080
very kind to animals and well, 
that's part of where the 

772
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,760
conflict comes. 
As far as their upbringing. 

773
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,360
Makar didn't 'cause this, but he
didn't really do much about it 

774
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,720
either, did he? 
Was there denial here or what do

775
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:20,320
we think? 
It's fair to level some portion 

776
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,600
of criticism on Makar here. 
And the reason I say that is 

777
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,920
because it's not just the family
who is saying Aryan is a 

778
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,160
monster. 
Yes, we absolutely get that in 

779
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,000
horrific detail from Egg, and we
get that from Darren too, where 

780
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,400
he's corroborating what Egg is 
saying about their brother. 

781
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:45,360
But what I think is so notable 
here is outside of the family, 

782
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:50,040
it is common knowledge by the 
time of attorney of Ashford that

783
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,520
Aryan is a monster. 
We've got Raymond Fossaway 

784
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,360
saying it's no secret that Aryan
is a bad piece of work. 

785
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,400
It's no secret that Aryan is 
vain and cruel. 

786
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,120
How does Raymond Bossaway know 
this? 

787
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,520
Raymond doesn't live at court. 
Raymond lives nowhere near 

788
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,480
court. 
Raymond's not, as far as we 

789
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,000
know, the son of a courtier or 
someone who's living within the 

790
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,480
royal household, or someone 
who's best friends with Deron 

791
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,800
and Egg. 
How does Raymond know this? 

792
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:27,360
It has to be because Aryan is 
already getting a reputation 

793
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,880
publicly for cruelty and vanity 
and arrogance. 

794
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:37,120
Maybe not doing things as 
extreme as what we see in at the

795
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,840
tourney of Ashford, but I think 
he was doing something on a 

796
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,040
public stage that was causing 
aristocratic onlookers to raise 

797
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,680
eyebrows, was starting to cause 
whispers, was starting to have 

798
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,480
people look at him and say, oh, 
no, no, no, not not this one. 

799
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,560
This one's got got some 
problems. 

800
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,480
And that's where I think the 
criticism of Make Our can come 

801
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,200
in, because if even people 
outside the royal family can see

802
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,960
that Aryan is a problem and Make
Our is continuing to enable 

803
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,000
Aryan, that's a failing on 
Maker's part. 

804
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,680
It doesn't erase that what Aryan
is doing is bad, to be clear, 

805
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,360
but it means that it's also a 
failing on Maker's part. 

806
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,480
Maker is the parent who needs to
step in. 

807
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,280
And as far as we can see, at 
least leading up to the hedge 

808
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,840
night Maker is not doing that. 
Yeah, it's a little bit Tywin 

809
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,200
Ish here, moving under a 
different comparison where we 

810
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,840
have this level of denial about 
Jamie and Cersei. 

811
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,080
Maybe Makar had that with Aryan.
It wouldn't require nearly as 

812
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,120
much denial because it's not 
like Aryan and is doing the sort

813
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,840
of things Jamie and Cersei were.
But still there seems to have 

814
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:47,480
been Aryan keeping things from 
his father yet somehow make are 

815
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,760
not looking into them even when 
his reputation seems to have 

816
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,720
spread as far as like you said 
to people like Raymond 

817
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,000
Fossewaik. 
It's it's pretty likely there's 

818
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,640
some sort of madness involved 
here. 

819
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:01,160
Obviously he has madness, but 
when did it begin is up in the 

820
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,280
air. 
I would say that on the spectrum

821
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,600
of Targaryens who slowly go mad,
his began sooner than most. 

822
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,240
Not all of them go mad at all, 
but in his case it certainly 

823
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:16,200
seems to have happened and begin
rather on the early side. 

824
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,000
Is that sound about right to 
you? 

825
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,640
I, I think that's right. 
I think that's right. 

826
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,000
And you know, this is what we're
hearing from from Egg and from 

827
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,960
Darren is that pretty much the 
only stories that are told about

828
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,480
Aryan are bad stories, that he 
is pretty consistently A 

829
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,760
villain. 
And again, if we if we're sort 

830
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,200
of talking about nature and 
nurture and personality all at 

831
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,600
once, if you have someone like 
Aryan, who from a young age is 

832
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,880
very likely displaying this 
tendency toward violence and 

833
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:52,160
cruelty and sadism. 
And then you're Makar, who is 

834
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,200
putting weapons in Aryan's hand 
because you want him to be a 

835
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,240
warrior. 
And you're saying this is how 

836
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,880
you defeat your enemies in 
combat and this is the most 

837
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,240
effective way to defeat men in 
battle. 

838
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,880
That's that's not a great 
combination. 

839
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,120
That's only going to feed into 
that. 

840
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:12,000
So it's this really awful 
combination again of nature and 

841
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,000
nurture and personality and all 
of those coming together to make

842
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:17,840
the dangerous person that is 
Aryan. 

843
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,360
Now, Daron also says about him 
that he thought he was a dragon 

844
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,560
in human form. 
Now, that's something we've 

845
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,440
talked about as a symbolic 
versus literal thing in a number

846
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,720
of contexts throughout the 
years. 

847
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,640
But for Aryan it, that line 
seems to be maybe a little 

848
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:43,160
blurrier than usual, in that he 
maybe started thinking along 

849
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:49,400
those lines in a symbolic way, 
but perhaps it started to become

850
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,640
a little more real in his mind. 
What do we make of it in 

851
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,280
general? 
Not just his own behavior, but 

852
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,200
his family's take on it. 
I think you make a good point 

853
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,840
that it's there's a very blurred
line here between does Aryan 

854
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,080
understand this as symbolic or 
literal? 

855
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,840
You're both, which sounds 
contradictory, but I don't think

856
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,880
it is when you're talking about 
a Targaryen because on the one 

857
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,360
hand, in a symbolic level, I do 
very much thank the Aryan on a 

858
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,080
symbolic level, thought of 
himself as a dragon. 

859
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,600
We'll, we'll talk about this a 
bit when it comes to how he 

860
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,360
styles himself at the Tourney of
Ashford. 

861
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:30,240
But I think Aryan is trying to 
appropriate that draconic 

862
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:34,120
legacy, especially in this era 
where the Targaryens not only 

863
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,600
don't have Dragons, but now 
they're several generations out 

864
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,760
from having Dragons, and it 
doesn't seem like they're coming

865
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,320
back anytime soon, no matter how
much they're dreaming about 

866
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,080
them. 
Yeah. 

867
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,360
You think about someone like a 
Daron the First who is 

868
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,360
confronted with the idea of, 
well, you can't conquer Dorn 

869
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,760
because you don't have a dragon,
and saying to them, oh, no, 

870
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,200
you've got a dragon. 
I'm him. 

871
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,160
It's me. 
I standing right in front of 

872
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,000
you. 
I don't think Daron literally 

873
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,680
thought he could breathe fire or
fly or do any of the things that

874
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,080
a dragon could do. 
But in the same way, I think 

875
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,680
maybe Aryan is thinking of 
himself as I'm just like 

876
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,960
Darrell. 
The first was as good as a 

877
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,160
dragon when it came to his 
ability to conquer Dorn. 

878
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:23,080
Well, I'm as good as a dragon 
when it comes to not having to 

879
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:24,920
listen to anyone. 
Dragons don't have to listen to 

880
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,320
anyone. 
I can do what I want. 

881
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,360
I can rule how I want because 
I'm above everyone else. 

882
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:36,280
But again, there's a level here 
where this may also, and not 

883
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,680
mutually exclusively be sort of 
a literal thought process too. 

884
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:43,960
There is some. 
And again, it's it's kept, I 

885
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,400
think, purposefully vague 
supernatural connection between 

886
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:53,320
the Targaryens and Dragons and 
somewhere their dreams fit into 

887
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,960
this. 
So whether or not Aryan knew 

888
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,120
about this, suspected this, had 
any kind of understanding or 

889
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:07,640
knowledge of it, I think Aryan 
may have clung to this idea that

890
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,800
I am supernaturally linked to 
the Dragons. 

891
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,720
I am maybe in a very more 
literal sense, the blood of the 

892
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:20,080
dragon, because that exalts me 
above other people, because that

893
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,960
makes me, again, capital E 
exceptional above other people. 

894
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,800
And that means I can do whatever
I want to other people. 

895
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,920
And he was not unlikely having 
dreams of some kind, perhaps not

896
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,040
on the level of his brother 
Darren, in fact very unlikely on

897
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,680
that level, but some kind of 
dreams. 

898
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,720
We certainly have evidence from 
Eamon later in life who said all

899
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:45,000
my brothers dreamt of Dragons 
and that it drove them to their 

900
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,920
deaths. 
So it's definitely a question of

901
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,520
when these dreams started and 
how much they pushed him and 

902
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,200
affected his personality. 
But it's not a question that 

903
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:59,600
they were in the mix at some 
point and probably to a pretty 

904
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,320
significant degree. 
So there's that, along with the 

905
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,160
his father's determination and 
pressure and his lot place in 

906
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,800
the succession, the general 
Westerosi tendency towards 

907
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,480
violence. 
It's the certainly the world 

908
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,800
they live in. 
But he chose from all this, 

909
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,960
unlike so many others. 
Or perhaps it was just the man 

910
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:29,000
he was cruelty, selfishness and 
a belief in himself that he was 

911
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,360
superior. 
But even not just to his 

912
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,720
subjects, even perhaps the rest 
of his family, right apart from 

913
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:38,240
his father. 
There, that's the real 

914
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:39,440
exception, I suppose. 
Huh. 

915
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,240
That's true. 
And I that was the point that I 

916
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:45,360
was going to make is I was 
talking before about how all of 

917
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,280
this is coming together in a 
perfect storm of creating a 

918
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,880
villain. 
You've got, you know, the Aryans

919
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,440
nature to what extent that is 
inborn, the environment he's 

920
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,760
growing up with in not just 
generally violent in Westeros, 

921
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,200
but also particularly focused on
commercial ability through his 

922
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,120
father. 
And then you've got his 

923
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,040
personality. 
And what I think is so key to 

924
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:12,280
understand about Aryan is Aryan 
makes choices and he makes evil 

925
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,040
choices. 
You know, Daron, Aryan and Egg 

926
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,720
and Amon all grow up with the 
same father. 

927
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,880
They grow up to some extent, 
less so for Amon because he 

928
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,600
becomes a maester, but certainly
Daron and Aryan and Egg grow up 

929
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,240
in the same household. 
They're exposed to a lot of the 

930
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:32,600
same influences, but where Egg 
becomes a kind hearted person 

931
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,320
and a good person and someone 
who wants to help other people 

932
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,360
even though the lowest born 
people in Westeros. 

933
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:45,320
What Aryan takes away is a sense
of violent, entitled arrogance. 

934
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:50,160
I can do whatever I want to 
whomever I want, at whatever 

935
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,920
time I want, for whatever reason
I want, and the only 

936
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,440
justification I have to give is 
I'm a Targaryen and I said so. 

937
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,280
Yeah, I like it. 
That sounds about right for 

938
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,080
Aryan Fitz. 
He may have also wanted to make 

939
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,280
a name for himself, as his 
father had, and given all the 

940
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,760
inducements and all the reasons 
that he might want that, like 

941
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,280
the lack of Dragons, the 
continuing threat of the black 

942
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:16,840
fires. 
All these reasons may have 

943
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,840
contributed to that ambition or 
something beyond ambition, 

944
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:21,960
something that he felt he 
needed. 

945
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:29,880
The tourney of Ashford in 209. 
Lord Ashford, of course, had 

946
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,720
that tourney in honor of his 
daughter's 13th name day. 

947
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:36,160
And Aryan was there, along with 
so many others. 

948
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:41,920
Now, there was also Baylor and 
Valar and Makar and Darren and 

949
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,760
Egg were in the vicinity. 
They were supposed to be there. 

950
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,320
But that's a whole nother story,
as we know. 

951
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:51,520
Why did so many Princess go to 
Ashford, do we think? 

952
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,080
And in particular, Makar's 
family so heavily represented. 

953
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,000
Well, I think there's a couple 
reasons it's very possible. 

954
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,000
Obviously this tourney is being 
staged for Lord Ashford to 

955
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,120
advertise his daughter to say 
I've got an eligible daughter. 

956
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,280
I'm open to making a marriage 
alliance with her. 

957
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:15,800
And so it's possible that Daron,
Daron the second, I should say 

958
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:21,000
the King Baylor and or Makar was
thinking about this young lady 

959
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,360
Ashford and thinking, could she 
be a bride for one of our more 

960
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,960
extraneous Princess. 
And Aryan himself may have been 

961
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,040
on the table as a potential 
suitor. 

962
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,600
He's a younger son of a younger 
son. 

963
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,880
That means he's probably not 
going to have very much to call 

964
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,520
his own when he comes into his 
majority. 

965
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,080
And the Ashford's certainly 
aren't the highest ranking 

966
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,320
aristocrats in Westeros, but 
they're not peasants either. 

967
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,600
I think they're generally 
speaking on the same level as 

968
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,560
the Corbrays or the Pen Roses, 
who have both relatively 

969
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,080
recently in this era married a 
Daos Targaryen. 

970
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:01,520
So the idea of marrying Aryan or
any of the Princess into the 

971
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:06,160
Ashfords, maybe not the wildest 
of ideas, but even if that 

972
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,600
wasn't the exact reason they 
were going, it's also possible 

973
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,920
that again, the King or Baylor 
or make our or all three. 

974
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,840
We're thinking, let's take 
advantage of this tourney as a 

975
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,040
way of showing off the strength 
of the dynasty. 

976
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,400
We are barely a decade out from 
the first Black Fire Rebellion 

977
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,120
when the Tourney Basford takes 
place. 

978
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:33,680
And this is absolutely no 
question the most serious 

979
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,320
external challenge the Targaryen
dynasty had ever faced. 

980
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,640
And the the late, great Stephen 
Atwell argues, and I think 

981
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,800
convincingly in his series on 
the Blacks and the Reds, that 

982
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,080
the heart of support for Damon 
Blackfyre probably came from the

983
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,120
Reach, because this is an area 
with historical, racial, 

984
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,000
cultural xenophobia against 
Dorn. 

985
00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:58,840
So it's very possible that even 
if the Ashfords themselves 

986
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,200
didn't fight for Damon 
Blackfyre, maybe their neighbors

987
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,600
did, maybe their relatives did, 
maybe their friends did, 

988
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,000
certainly maybe other Richmond 
did. 

989
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,800
And so if they're staging 
attorney and we're still, you 

990
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,640
know, in this barely after the 
first decade, after the first 

991
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,640
Black Fire rebellion, the Crown 
may have thought, let's make 

992
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,840
sure we send as many of our 
Princess as possible, the 

993
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,960
strength of the dynasty, not 
only to show, hey, we're not 

994
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,240
afraid. 
We're not going to hide in 

995
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,120
King's Landing because we're so 
terrified that someone's going 

996
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,160
to try to assassinate us or 
start another rebellion. 

997
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,160
But also, we're showing all of 
you attendees who are showing 

998
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,120
up. 
This is what you're dealing 

999
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:40,440
with. 
This is the dynasty. 

1000
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,600
We're secure, we're strong, 
we're stable. 

1001
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,960
And if you want to try another 
rebellion in the future, this is

1002
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,280
what you're going to be facing. 
So maybe think twice about that.

1003
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,000
And then maybe think 1/3 time 
after seeing the results of what

1004
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,600
actually happened at Ashford. 
But you know, a part of me 

1005
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,000
wonders, was this Aryan's first 
tournament as a competitor? 

1006
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,760
We talked about him being young 
enough that yes, he was decent 

1007
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,920
chance he was knighted, but that
doesn't mean he had fought in a 

1008
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,320
tournament before. 
It would make a sort of sense to

1009
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,640
me that he hadn't tested the 
boundaries of his royal 

1010
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,440
privilege yet, that he hadn't 
really been out and about so 

1011
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,960
much. 
But I'm not so sure about that. 

1012
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,440
What do you think? 
And I think there may be sort of

1013
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,200
a happy medium between the two 
because in my mind, I do think 

1014
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,560
Aryan had done something on a 
public stage. 

1015
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,720
Because again, Raven Fossway is 
clearly aware that there are 

1016
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:36,160
rumors about Aryan and I think 
he has to have done something 

1017
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,240
publicly in order for those 
rumors to get as, as far as 

1018
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,600
Cider Hall. 
So I think that it's very 

1019
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,240
possible that Aryan may have 
competed, but maybe more 

1020
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,880
locally, maybe if there was a 
tournament in crown lands in the

1021
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,680
Red Keep somewhere, you know, 
within the the purview of House 

1022
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,400
Targaryen as the overlord of the
crown lands, maybe he'd done 

1023
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,440
that. 
Maybe he had competed in sort of

1024
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,800
a Squires tourney, maybe even 
something along the lines of, 

1025
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,680
you know what, Miranda Royce 
reports that Harold Harding is 

1026
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,400
knighted after a Squires 
tourney, which is set up for him

1027
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,680
to win. 
So it could be something like 

1028
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,440
that. 
And I think that that's very 

1029
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,480
possibly the way the Aryan 
started to show some of this 

1030
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,080
cruelty or some of this 
arrogance. 

1031
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,120
Again, not in a way that anyone 
would actually be able to do 

1032
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,720
anything about. 
Isn't in a way that would raise 

1033
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,960
an eyebrow and say that he's 
This is not not quite a not 

1034
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,680
quite a good character here. 
Another reason I brought this up

1035
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,320
is just because of the way we 
see Arian when he's first 

1036
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,440
introduced. 
It's almost like he doesn't 

1037
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,800
understand the concept of hedge 
night, which is like, you really

1038
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,400
should have heard of them 
before. 

1039
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,240
You know, I know him insulting 
him Despite that would be 

1040
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,040
fitting. 
But he is almost surprised in a 

1041
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,680
way that says, oh, I, you know, 
I didn't know Knights could look

1042
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,080
like this, you know, when 
neither did egg. 

1043
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:01,080
If we're being honest, the egg 
was funnier about it, but they 

1044
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,680
were both kind of surprised, but
in different kind of ways. 

1045
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:06,520
That reaction is a little bit 
telling. 

1046
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,000
So let's look at that moment 
when Dunk encounters Aryan in 

1047
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,040
the Hedge knight right after he 
sees the royal party arrive. 

1048
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,200
Quote. 
Boy, let go of that nag and see 

1049
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,600
to my horse. 
A rider had dismounted in front 

1050
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,840
of the stables. 
He's talking to me, Dunk 

1051
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,360
realized. 
I'm not a stable boy, my Lord. 

1052
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,320
Not clever enough. 
The speaker wore a black cloak 

1053
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,760
bordered in scarlet satin, but 
underneath was Raymond, bright 

1054
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:40,320
as flame, all Reds and yellows 
and golds, slim and straight as 

1055
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,120
a Dirk, though only of middling 
height. 

1056
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,800
He was near Dunk's own age. 
Pearls of silver gold hair 

1057
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:52,560
framed a face, sculpted and 
imperious, high brow and sharp 

1058
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:57,640
cheekbones, straight nose, pale 
smooth skin without blemish. 

1059
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,560
His eyes were a deep Violet 
color. 

1060
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,680
If you cannot manage a horse, 
fetch me some wine and a pretty 

1061
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,520
wench. 
I, I, my Lord, pardons. 

1062
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,840
I'm no serving man either. 
I have the honor to be a knight.

1063
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,320
Knighthood has fallen on sad 
days, said the princeling. 

1064
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,320
But then one of the stable boys 
came rushing up, and he turned 

1065
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,240
away to hand him the reins of 
his palfrey. 

1066
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:28,200
A splendid blood Bay. 
It doesn't take long at all. 

1067
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,800
This is very efficient. 
Aryan comes off as pompous, 

1068
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,120
egotistical, insufferable, you 
name it right away. 

1069
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,200
Doesn't he? 
Oh absolutely. 

1070
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,480
You know, I, I read this quote 
and all I can think of is a, a 

1071
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,400
quote that my husband like to 
paraphrase sometimes, which is, 

1072
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:43,880
you know, I've, I've known 
authors who use subtext and 

1073
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,440
they're all cowards. 
This is, this is not subtle. 

1074
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,680
This is, and it's not intended 
to be subtle. 

1075
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,360
This is George R Martin 
signaling to you right away. 

1076
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,000
Here's the villain of the story.
You don't have to guess about 

1077
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,800
it. 
This is the villain. 

1078
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,960
And you know, it's, it's so 
obvious. 

1079
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:05,680
I mean the contrast between the 
way the Aryan greets Dunk and 

1080
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:11,360
the way the egg greets Dunk. 
Absolutely night and day they're

1081
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,720
the same age. 
Just think of the the sunny lie.

1082
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,760
We're the same age. 
They're basically the same age 

1083
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:22,440
and yet Aryan is calling Dunk 
boy why you're the same age. 

1084
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,760
It's because he can't think of 
someone as low born as Dunk 

1085
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:33,040
being an adult person. 
He's literally an immature 

1086
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,720
person simply by virtue of 
having a lower birth. 

1087
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,800
When AG first meets Dunk, he, 
yeah, he's playing at being a 

1088
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,880
stable boy. 
He's not, actually, but he's 

1089
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:48,640
still calling Dunk Sir, and my 
Lord, he's still taking on those

1090
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:53,800
respectful forms of address. 
Aryan sees Dunk and immediately 

1091
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,280
assumes Dunk is here to serve me
personally. 

1092
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,840
It's not just Dunk is a servant 
of House Ashford. 

1093
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,680
This is Dunk is here and because
he's here, I can tell him to do 

1094
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,640
literally anything I want 
because I'm a Targaryen. 

1095
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,840
And when Dunk corrects him and 
says no, no, no, I'm I'm not a 

1096
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,200
stable boy and then says no, I'm
a knight. 

1097
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,280
Aryan's response instant to be 
Oh my bad. 

1098
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,920
I'm so sorry about that. 
It's to say, Nah, that can't be 

1099
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,760
the case. 
You're not really a knight 

1100
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:28,800
though. 
You're you're still obviously a 

1101
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,920
peasant though, right? 
Because I think to your point, 

1102
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,080
it's not maybe so much that 
Aryan doesn't know what a 

1103
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:36,800
headlight is. 
I think he would have sort of a 

1104
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,800
intellectual concept of what a 
headlight is. 

1105
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,960
But I think that Aryan is so 
deep in his own arrogance, in 

1106
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,200
his own vanity, in his own sense
of self importance, that he 

1107
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:54,720
literally can't believe that 
someone of such a low birth as 

1108
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,840
Dunk is a person on his level. 
He can't do that. 

1109
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:03,240
It doesn't add up in his mind. 
So he has to be a servant, he 

1110
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,280
has to be a peasant, he has to 
be a boy because that's how 

1111
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,160
Aryan can interact with him. 
This would add a little extra 

1112
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,280
contact if Aryan hadn't yet been
knighted. 

1113
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,320
He's like, oh, this guy's been 
knighted and I have it. 

1114
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,000
Oh, that would that would get 
him a little bit. 

1115
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,920
Dunk takes note of Aryan's 
height, that he's not as very 

1116
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,280
tall. 
He's kind of average height, 

1117
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,840
kind of sizing him up, 
literally. 

1118
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,440
And this, of course, is 
important to how the combat 

1119
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,640
resolves. 
At the end of the story, Aryan 

1120
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:33,000
is above Dunk on a horse and in 
status, but on the ground the 

1121
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,520
status doesn't matter and Dunks 
size does. 

1122
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,800
After Manfred Dondarian refuses 
to vouch for Dunk, he returns to

1123
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:45,240
the Castle where he overhears 
the following between Baylor and

1124
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,240
Makar quote. 
Don't be an utter fool. 

1125
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:53,960
Daron is what he is, but he is 
still your blood and mine. 

1126
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:59,440
I have no doubt Sir Rowland will
turn him up and Aegon with him. 

1127
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:01,960
When the tourney is over, 
perhaps. 

1128
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,600
Aryan is here. 
He is a better Lance than Deron.

1129
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,920
In any case, if it is the 
tourney that concerns you. 

1130
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,800
Now, Baylor is right about 
Aryan, the technically correct, 

1131
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,760
the best kind of correct, but 
it's really hard to not be 

1132
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:21,080
better with a Lance than Deron. 
I suppose we could say Baylor is

1133
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:25,560
also quietly reminding his 
brother that make ours hearts in

1134
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:26,720
the wrong place, though, isn't 
he? 

1135
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,440
He's, he's probably done this 
before, heard his brother talk 

1136
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,960
this way before. 
He's he's trying to be 

1137
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,080
diplomatic about it, but he's 
his. 

1138
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:36,400
His message is pointed, isn't 
it? 

1139
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,080
It is. 
And I think, you know, this is 

1140
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,840
like a touching moment where we 
get this very intimate 

1141
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,200
conversation between the 
brothers because I think you 

1142
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,720
really get the sense that Baylor
understands Makar. 

1143
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,760
And he's maybe the one person in
the world who can talk to Makar 

1144
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,560
on Makar's level and really 
understand him and get to the 

1145
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,200
heart of the conversation. 
And what he's talking about 

1146
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:02,040
specifically here is, yeah, when
Baylor says, well, Aryan's here 

1147
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:04,360
and he's a better Lance. 
If it's the attorney that 

1148
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:09,160
concerns you, the clear 
implication is Bikar, where is 

1149
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,320
your heart right now? 
Because your heart should be 

1150
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,760
with your son. 
As far as make our nose, Daron 

1151
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,320
and Egg are still missing. 
They're his blood too. 

1152
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:24,280
He should care about them just 
as much as he cares about Aryan.

1153
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,800
It's not about whether or not 
Aryan can break the most lances 

1154
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:31,600
at Ashford or Aryan can impress 
everyone. 

1155
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,000
Ashford. 
It's about family and you got to

1156
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:39,520
care about your family. 
Yeah, this is the the family he 

1157
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,520
lives in though, you know, So it
is what it is. 

1158
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:46,800
Oh, well. 
Now Baylor accepts Dunk as a 

1159
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:48,880
night. 
But before Dunk can enter the 

1160
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,360
lists, he watches other 
competitors, including Aryan. 

1161
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,080
Quote. 
Late in the day, a brazen 

1162
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,440
fanfare announced the entry of a
new challenger to the lists. 

1163
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:03,640
He rode in on a great red 
charger whose black bardings 

1164
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:08,040
were slashed to reveal glimpses 
of yellow, Crimson, and orange 

1165
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,280
beneath. 
As he approached the viewing 

1166
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:14,720
stand to make his salute, Dunk 
saw the face beneath the raised 

1167
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,880
visor and recognized the Prince 
he'd met in Lord Ashford's 

1168
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:22,040
stables. 
Aryan bore A3 headed dragon on 

1169
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:25,680
his shield, but it was rendered 
in colors much more vivid than 

1170
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,800
Velar's. 
One head was orange, 1 yellow, 

1171
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,320
one red, and the flames they 
breathed had the Sheen of gold 

1172
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,440
leaf. 
His Sir coat was a swirl of 

1173
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,920
smoke and fire woven together, 
and his blackened helm was 

1174
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,640
surmounted by a Crest of red 
enamel flames. 

1175
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:51,240
So here we see what we discussed
earlier about his portrayal of 

1176
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,560
himself as a dragon. 
But this is here, we have it in 

1177
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,920
action, we get to see it, and it
is pretty striking. 

1178
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,040
Aryan is. 
Almost literally portraying 

1179
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,400
himself as a dragon in all but 
name. 

1180
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:08,600
He's got red and yellow and 
orange fabric on the bartings 

1181
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,240
that is the the fabric coverings
on his horse. 

1182
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,840
And he's got these dragon heads 
on his signal and he's got this 

1183
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,840
swirl of smoke and fire on his 
Serco. 

1184
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:23,399
It's like he's almost literally 
breathed in flames, and I think 

1185
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:28,359
that's entirely intentional. 
He's trying to show himself as a

1186
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:34,279
dragon, so much so even his 
horse has to be red because the 

1187
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:38,479
Targaryen dragon is red. 
At least on on the Family Sigil,

1188
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:44,279
Aryan is showing himself as the 
closest he can possibly get to 

1189
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,760
being a dragon rider at this 
tourney. 

1190
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,560
He didn't go so far as to have 
his helm blackened. 

1191
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,279
Like he literally just pulled it
out of the fire, complete with 

1192
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,160
flames coming out of the top. 
Like he's really going over the 

1193
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,439
top to sell the image. 
He is a dragon in human form. 

1194
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,560
He's riding a dragon. 
He's got fire all around him. 

1195
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:11,840
He is a Targaryen. 
Now, this is not entirely new as

1196
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,720
far as the personal sigil part, 
but this really goes well beyond

1197
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,800
personal sigils, right? 
Like you said, he's making 

1198
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,720
himself look like a dragon. 
But it's also vanity. 

1199
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:25,439
It's also really projecting. 
There's a lot of things in here 

1200
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,399
you bring up in our notes. 
Illyrio who? 

1201
01:09:28,399 --> 01:09:30,920
That's a really funny example, 
because Illyrio made fun of 

1202
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:34,200
Tyrion, for all their emphasis 
on heraldry. 

1203
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:38,560
But I think Aryan wouldn't take 
kindly to that mockery. 

1204
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,560
Tyrion was fine with it, but 
Aryan would. 

1205
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,279
Oh, he'd be mad. 
No, he would because, you know, 

1206
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,840
the context was in a dance with 
Dragons. 

1207
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,920
You know, Tyrion makes the 
comment of how she better be 

1208
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,160
careful because I'm a I'm a 
lion. 

1209
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,200
And Illyria left. 
He's like, oh, what? 

1210
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,680
You put an animal on your shield
and all of a sudden you're a 

1211
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,840
lion or a leopard or a wolf. 
Like, come on, I'm looking at 

1212
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,920
you. 
You're a person just like I am. 

1213
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:08,200
So I think it's Illyria ran into
Aryan and he's doing all of this

1214
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,880
to try and show himself as a 
dragon only would be like, come 

1215
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,320
on buddy, really? 
You're a dragon now because you 

1216
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,120
painted a dragon and you 
blackened your helm and you put 

1217
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,440
flames on your hat. 
Illyrio would have appreciated 

1218
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,240
Darren's joke about being an 
apple or all that. 

1219
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,480
Yeah, then we'd be all be safer 
for it. 

1220
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:34,120
So Aryan continued to show his 
arrogance, make us understand 

1221
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:36,600
what kind of person he was when 
selecting an opponent. 

1222
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,920
Quote. 
After a pause to dip his Lance 

1223
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,440
to Prince Baylor, a pause so 
brief that it was almost 

1224
01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:48,400
perfunctory, he galloped to the 
North End of the field, past 

1225
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:52,400
Lord Leo's pavilion and the 
laughing storms slowing only 

1226
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,040
when he approached Prince 
Valar's tent. 

1227
01:10:55,480 --> 01:11:00,120
The young Prince rose and stood 
stiffly beside his shield, and 

1228
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,520
for a moment Dunk was certain 
that Aryan meant to strike it, 

1229
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:08,960
but then he laughed and trotted 
past and banged his point hard 

1230
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,600
against Sir Humphrey Harding's 
diamonds. 

1231
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:16,400
Come out, come out, little 
knight, he sang in a loud, clear

1232
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,440
voice. 
It's time you faced the dragon. 

1233
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,280
Notice he barely stops to 
recognize his uncle. 

1234
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:27,080
That's a nice, subtle, but 
pretty straightforward moment 

1235
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:28,920
there. 
It's telling, isn't it? 

1236
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:33,160
Baylor is not just his uncle. 
He's not even just Hand of the 

1237
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:37,480
King, he's also Prince of 
Dragonstone and Heir to the Iron

1238
01:11:37,480 --> 01:11:40,440
Throat in every way that 
matters. 

1239
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,640
Baylor is the face and voice of 
the king at this tourney. 

1240
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:50,840
So if Aryan is dipping his lands
so briefly that even Dunk the 

1241
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:56,200
Hedge Night Squire newly sort of
Hedge Night can recognize that's

1242
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:00,920
an insult, You know, every 
single aristocrat at that 

1243
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,720
tournament is recognizing that 
that was an insult. 

1244
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:08,440
Is clocking that moment. 
This is Aryan saying, yeah, I'm 

1245
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:11,840
going to pretend to be 
respectful to you, but I'm not 

1246
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:15,320
really, because why should I? 
I'm a Targaryen, the same as 

1247
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,400
you. 
Why should I be any more 

1248
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:21,080
deferential to you, my uncle, 
when we're both Targaryens? 

1249
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,840
This sort of undermines the 
message of this unified front 

1250
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:28,120
that the Targaryens might have 
been trying to present, as we're

1251
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,200
this strong house that is very 
capable of continuing to rule. 

1252
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:34,480
Don't think about those black 
fires now. 

1253
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,800
Aryan takes it up a notch though
when he stops in front of 

1254
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,360
Valor's tent, doesn't he? 
This is sort of along the same 

1255
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,720
lines here, but a bit more 
provocative. 

1256
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,240
No, it is. 
I mean, I don't I think that 

1257
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:52,320
Aryan ever really considered 
challenging Valor. 

1258
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:56,200
Because what we'll go on to see 
throughout Aryan's life, and 

1259
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,800
especially at this tournament, 
is that Aryan tends to punch 

1260
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,280
down. 
Aryan tends to attack people he 

1261
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:06,880
considers beneath him. 
And Valor, well, Valor's not 

1262
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,960
beneath him. 
Valor is second in line to the 

1263
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,440
Iron Throne. 
Yeah, he might not have been a 

1264
01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:16,040
great tourney champion. 
We get the sense that people are

1265
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,280
kind of throwing their matches 
against him precisely because of

1266
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,840
who he is. 
But because he is so high in the

1267
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:28,120
succession, valor is important 
in a way that Aryan, especially 

1268
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:32,360
the Aryan of the Hedge night, is
not and does not seem like he 

1269
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:35,640
ever will be. 
And Baylor is right there, 

1270
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,080
Valor's dad, the first in line 
to the Iron Throne. 

1271
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:43,520
If Aryan attacks Valor and the 
way we're going to see him do 

1272
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:47,240
with Humphrey Harding, Baylor's 
going to react immediately. 

1273
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:50,920
And although Makar may not be 
watching, Makar is not going to 

1274
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:54,960
take kindly to that either. 
So I think Arian isn't doing 

1275
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,000
this to actually say he's going 
to challenge Valor. 

1276
01:13:59,480 --> 01:14:02,520
I think he's being provocative. 
I think he's going up and 

1277
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:07,200
lingering just a little too long
in front of Valor Shield to to 

1278
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:11,080
be shocking to say to everybody,
yeah, I'm not going to challenge

1279
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:12,760
my cousin. 
What if I did? 

1280
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,040
I'm not going to do it all. 
But imagine if I did. 

1281
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,320
Wouldn't that be crazy? 
Oh, and what if I unseated him? 

1282
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,920
What if I even heard him? 
That would be shocking, wouldn't

1283
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:25,080
it? 
Just No I could do it. 

1284
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,920
Yep, Yep. 
He's really enjoying the moment,

1285
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,400
I think, while making everyone 
else there uncomfortable, and 

1286
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:33,600
he's thought about this a little
bit. 

1287
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,560
There's a bit of classic bully 
in this, but a little bit of 

1288
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:40,160
thoughtfulness. 
Also a little bit of something 

1289
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:44,960
else. 
He isn't foolish enough or 

1290
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:50,680
delusional enough to think he 
can, say, beat Leo Longthorne or

1291
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:52,720
the Laughing Storm or even 
Humphrey Harding. 

1292
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:58,120
Not in a fair fight, but he's 
also not foolish enough to pick 

1293
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:59,760
on one of the more powerful 
houses. 

1294
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:03,920
Like, he could have done what he
did, probably to Laughing Storm 

1295
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,280
or Leo Longthorne. 
Because it's cheating and they 

1296
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,040
wouldn't have necessarily seen 
it coming. 

1297
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,360
Until, you know, maybe he got a 
chance to do it again. 

1298
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,640
Everyone from this joust forward
knew to watch out for Aryan. 

1299
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:18,320
But why did he pick Humphrey 
Harding over those greater 

1300
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,520
Lords? 
Well, I think to your point, Leo

1301
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:25,040
Longthorne and the Laughing 
Storm, Lionel Baratheon are 

1302
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:26,640
Lords. 
And they're not just Lords, 

1303
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,840
they're paramount Lords. 
These are Lords with a lot of 

1304
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,000
power. 
They've got a lot of assholes 

1305
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:34,520
who are powerful in their own 
right. 

1306
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:37,840
They've got armies of their own,
they've got resources of their 

1307
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:38,720
own. 
So. 

1308
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:44,440
And for Leo, he's literally this
is his land, this is his vassal,

1309
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:49,080
this is his home turf. 
If Aryan hurts Leo Longthorne or

1310
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:53,320
Lionel Baratheon, that's a lot 
of problems for House Targaryen 

1311
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,720
because all of a sudden now 
you've got very angry vassals 

1312
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:01,000
coming to the crown for justice,
and the crown does not have 

1313
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,320
independent draconic power to 
answer that. 

1314
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:07,360
Besides the point, of course, to
your point, Leo Longthorne and 

1315
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,560
Lionel Baratheon are both 
physical threats to Aryan. 

1316
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,640
Lionel very obviously so. 
I mean, this is someone who's 

1317
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,320
almost as gigantic as Dunk. 
If Aryan knocks him off his 

1318
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:20,320
horse or he knocks off Aryan and
they get on the ground loud, 

1319
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:21,520
Brathian's going to kick his 
butt. 

1320
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,360
And there's there's no question 
about that. 

1321
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,880
And Leah Longthorne, he might 
not be quite as physically 

1322
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,640
imposing, but he's deadly with a
Lance. 

1323
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,040
He can knock off Helms very 
easily and actually get the 

1324
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:37,080
sense that maybe he was doing 
this specifically to splinter 

1325
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,560
lances and to make people afraid
to face him because of how 

1326
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:43,760
dangerous splintered lances are.
So I think Aryan's just too vain

1327
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:49,680
to to face that knowing that he 
he could lose an eye or, or, or 

1328
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,040
his life. 
But when it comes to Humphrey 

1329
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,320
Harding, well, it's a little bit
different. 

1330
01:16:54,480 --> 01:16:56,520
Yes, Humphrey is still an 
aristocrat. 

1331
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:58,280
I want to be very, very clear 
about that. 

1332
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:03,240
But Humphrey is a much lower 
ranking aristocrat compared to 

1333
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,520
Leo Longthorne or the Laughing 
Storm. 

1334
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,560
He's only at most a landed 
night. 

1335
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:13,120
And again, that's not nothing, 
but it means that he doesn't 

1336
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:15,600
have a lot of independent power 
and he doesn't have a lot of 

1337
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:18,200
independent resources and he 
doesn't have a lot of strong 

1338
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:22,440
vassals of his own. 
And also he's very far away from

1339
01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:24,360
home. 
If anything happens to Humphrey 

1340
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,360
Harding, it's going to be a 
while before his Wayne Wood and 

1341
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:31,840
Aaron overlords hear about it 
and have anything to do about 

1342
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,120
it. 
And so I think the Aryan is 

1343
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:37,480
looking at Humphrey and saying, 
this is the guy I can punch down

1344
01:17:37,480 --> 01:17:39,440
at. 
Oh, you think you're so great 

1345
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:41,200
because you've won so much 
today. 

1346
01:17:41,480 --> 01:17:44,240
Well, just you wait. 
Just you wait until I take you 

1347
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,320
down. 
When the pivotal woman happens, 

1348
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,040
Dunk pretty quickly realizes 
what Aryan plans to do. 

1349
01:17:50,440 --> 01:17:53,320
Quote. 
Prince Aryan's Lance, gold 

1350
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:57,880
tipped and painted in stripes of
red, orange and yellow, swung 

1351
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:03,040
down across the barrier. 
Low, too low, thought Dunk the 

1352
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:06,400
moment he saw it. 
He'll miss the rider and strike 

1353
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,920
Sir Humphrey's horse. 
He needs to bring it up. 

1354
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:14,560
Then, with donning horror, he 
began to suspect that Aryan 

1355
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,320
intended no such thing. 
He cannot mean to. 

1356
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:23,480
At the last possible instant Sir
Humphrey's stallion reared away 

1357
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:27,200
from the oncoming point, eyes 
rolling in terror. 

1358
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:31,120
But too late. 
Aryan's Lance took the animal 

1359
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:35,200
just above the armor that 
protected his breastbone and 

1360
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,600
exploded out of the back of his 
neck in a gout of bright blood. 

1361
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:44,360
Screaming, the horse crashed 
sideways, knocking the wooden 

1362
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:49,440
barrier to pieces as he fell. 
Sir Humphrey tried to leap free 

1363
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,760
but a foot caught in a stirrup 
and they heard his shriek as his

1364
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,720
leg was crushed between the 
splintered fence and falling 

1365
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,120
horse. 
What do we actually think Aryan 

1366
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:03,240
thought he was going to 
accomplish? 

1367
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:09,320
Clearly he didn't expect to be 
eliminated via faults, like he 

1368
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,440
didn't expect to be expelled 
from the tournament. 

1369
01:19:11,440 --> 01:19:13,080
He didn't see that coming. 
He should have. 

1370
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,360
It was pretty obvious that that 
would happen. 

1371
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:18,920
So what did he expect, do we 
think? 

1372
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:23,160
And why did he expect something 
other than the very 

1373
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:24,640
straightforward thing that did 
happen? 

1374
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:25,800
Yeah. 
You're you're banned. 

1375
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:27,160
You're out. 
Like you can't do that. 

1376
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:32,480
Well, I mean, I think that to 
your point, this is not what 

1377
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:34,040
you're supposed to do in a 
tourney. 

1378
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:38,200
There's a reason the tourney 
lances are designed to break. 

1379
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:42,160
These are not war lances with 
iron tips that are designed to 

1380
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,520
kill people and horses. 
These are designed to break 

1381
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:47,800
against a shield. 
That's how you earn your points.

1382
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:52,080
That's how you win in a douse. 
But I think what is very clear 

1383
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,360
here, and Dunk picks up on it 
right away. 

1384
01:19:54,840 --> 01:20:00,440
Ariat is deliberately trying to 
hurt Humphrey, and he's hurting 

1385
01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:01,800
him. 
And again, we're going to return

1386
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,600
to this point in a bit. 
Aryan seems to like to hurt 

1387
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:09,200
people in a way that is very 
personal to them. 

1388
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,000
And, and we see that with 
Humphrey Harding. 

1389
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,280
Humphrey is, like we said, at 
most a landed knight. 

1390
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:18,080
He doesn't have much in the way 
of excess funds to buy new 

1391
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:22,280
armor, to buy new horses. 
And if he's crushed under his 

1392
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:25,840
horse, like he's going to go on 
to be here, he's going to be 

1393
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:30,200
pretty severely injured. 
Even if he hadn't died, his 

1394
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:35,200
jousing career was probably 
over, and that's devastating to 

1395
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,640
a young aristocrat with not much
more to go on in Westeros. 

1396
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,760
Like a young landed night is as 
Humphrey Harding was. 

1397
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,320
I think this is Aryan's way of 
humiliating him on as much of A 

1398
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:48,560
public stage as he can. 
He sees that Humphrey is winning

1399
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,680
so much during the day. 
He sees how beloved he is of the

1400
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,760
Commons. 
He sees how much Humphrey seems 

1401
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,200
to be enjoying it. 
And Aryan says I'm going to take

1402
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:00,360
that away from you. 
I'm going to attack you in the 

1403
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:04,000
way that's going to hurt you 
most so that you know you can't 

1404
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:08,760
stand up against the Dragons. 
And further evidence of Aryan 

1405
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:13,000
just really not having any idea 
how people would react to this 

1406
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,760
and really not seeing the sort 
of obvious result. 

1407
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:22,560
He was ready to continue the 
fight even though it was pretty 

1408
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:25,720
obviously over. 
Let's see here quote. 

1409
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:30,120
Aryan, having raced blithely 
around the carnage to the end of

1410
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:33,680
the lists, wheeled his horse and
came galloping back. 

1411
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,560
He was shouting, too, though 
Dunk could not make out the 

1412
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:41,560
words over the almost human 
screams of the dying horse. 

1413
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:46,520
Vaulting from the saddle, Aryan 
drew his sword and advanced on 

1414
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:49,720
his fallen foe. 
His own Squires in one of Sir 

1415
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:54,840
Humphreys had to pull him back. 
This leaves even less doubt of 

1416
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:56,240
his intentions. 
Like it. 

1417
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:59,920
It was like he was drawn to 
this, like it was a blood blust.

1418
01:21:59,920 --> 01:22:02,760
Almost like his plan wasn't 
quite complete. 

1419
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:07,120
Like the punishment that you 
mentioned, that the putting him 

1420
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,960
back in his place was somehow 
incomplete. 

1421
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:13,320
Even though the man is shouting 
and in pain, there's some kind 

1422
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:16,640
of obvious thing that Aryan is 
unable to perceive. 

1423
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,520
It's pretty evil. 
Like even his own people are 

1424
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:21,160
trying to stop him. 
Like what is? 

1425
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,840
Yeah, that's telling, isn't it? 
I think that last point you make

1426
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:30,080
is the most salient of all. 
This is so beyond the pale, what

1427
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:35,280
Aryan is doing. 
Aryan's own Squires, the people 

1428
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:40,520
who should be the most loyal to 
Aryan, are trying to hold him 

1429
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:45,160
back from trying to attack 
Humphrey, who's lying on the 

1430
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:48,840
ground. 
This is how evil Aryan's conduct

1431
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:51,400
is here. 
And I I like the the fact that 

1432
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,960
George RR Martin includes the 
word Blithely when he says the 

1433
01:22:56,040 --> 01:23:01,080
Aryan races around the carnage. 
Blithely is doing so much there 

1434
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,200
because it is giving such an 
insight into his mindset. 

1435
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,400
This is not, oh, I was just 
immature. 

1436
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,680
I was unskilled. 
I wasn't ready for this. 

1437
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,520
I This was all of an act. 
Just a horrible accident. 

1438
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:15,840
No, no, no. 
This is this is exactly what 

1439
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,320
Aryan wanted to do. 
This is an Aryan who's enjoying 

1440
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:21,520
this. 
This is an Aryan who is getting 

1441
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,360
exactly what he wanted out of 
this encounter. 

1442
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:28,600
So he was probably pretty 
surprised at how much pushback 

1443
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:30,560
he got, especially the whole 
getting kicked out of the 

1444
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,240
tournament, which happened very 
quickly. 

1445
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,120
He may have thought that Lord 
Ashford just wouldn't rule 

1446
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:38,080
against him like that because of
he's a dragon, because of his 

1447
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:41,600
attitude that the dragon 
shouldn't lose his pride, his 

1448
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:45,600
delusions, all that. 
But that is exactly what 

1449
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,600
happens. 
There's a similar event back in 

1450
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,160
early a Game of Thrones, the 
first tournament we see the 

1451
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:54,800
hands tournament, where some 
unknown hedge night disgraced 

1452
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:58,240
himself by killing Barack 
Dondarian's horse and was 

1453
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:00,760
dismissed from the competition 
under similar grounds. 

1454
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:03,800
Dunk would never. 
This is of course, just some 

1455
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,400
dirty hedge night that Dunk 
would not like to associate 

1456
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:08,480
himself with. 
But I, I, I love the the 

1457
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:11,400
reversal here, the inverse 
that's going on here. 

1458
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,960
And Aryan, though, would would 
not see it the same way. 

1459
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:18,600
He'd say, look, the noble should
have the right to do what he 

1460
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:19,640
wants here. 
The hedge knight. 

1461
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,920
Yeah, the hedge knight should 
have been kicked out, but I as 

1462
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:23,040
if I should have been allowed to
do that. 

1463
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:24,280
Clearly that's what he went in 
thinking. 

1464
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:27,400
If he did was surprised by being
kicked out of the tournament, he

1465
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:29,040
must have thought he could get 
away with it. 

1466
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:31,920
And that's part of why he got so
mad afterwards. 

1467
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:36,000
No word on whether this unnamed 
hedge knight went off to find a 

1468
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,840
puppet show where they were 
making fun of hedge Knights. 

1469
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:41,280
And he got really mad and and 
busted the whole thing up. 

1470
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:44,840
And yeah, probably didn't 
happen, but maybe it did a head 

1471
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:50,400
cannon, right? 
So Aryan, you know, again, new 

1472
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,240
to these sort of things. 
He's had these urges and 

1473
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:55,880
feelings his whole life 
probably, but not a lot of 

1474
01:24:55,880 --> 01:25:00,080
opportunity to inflict this on 
real human beings outside of 

1475
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,320
court. 
He wanted to conceal his 

1476
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,640
behavior from his father. 
But there's no hiding this, 

1477
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:06,760
right? 
He thought this was something he

1478
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:08,520
can get away with. 
And no, no, this is like the 

1479
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,640
talk of the town, the talk of 
the tournament. 

1480
01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:15,560
But it's not so simple as just 
punishing him beyond kicking him

1481
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,440
out of tournament, is it? 
There's like these weird 

1482
01:25:17,440 --> 01:25:22,000
Targaryen family dynamics with 
Baylor and Makar and the whole 

1483
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,120
reason the Targaryens are there 
in the 1st place, which we 

1484
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:25,960
talked about. 
That has to matter, even if we 

1485
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:27,960
aren't clear on exactly what it 
is. 

1486
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:30,720
So what do you think about that?
And I think you're right. 

1487
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:34,520
And I, and I like comparing this
to that, that brief anecdote we 

1488
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:36,520
get in a Game of Thrones where 
the head giant is dismissed 

1489
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:39,600
after he, he kills barracks 
horse because of course, the 

1490
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:41,720
head knight has virtually no 
rights. 

1491
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,280
Yes, he's a knight, which means 
he's above kind of your, your 

1492
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:45,920
common run of peasants in 
Westeros. 

1493
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:49,760
But he can be dismissed pretty 
easily because, well, who cares 

1494
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:51,040
about the rights of a head 
knight? 

1495
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,760
But with Aryan, it's, it is a 
little more complicated. 

1496
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:59,560
And I think what the punishment 
is that's given to Aryan is 

1497
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:04,280
about as much as Lord Ashford 
and Baylor think they can do or 

1498
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:08,560
feel they can do in the context 
of very complicated feelings, 

1499
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:12,200
because Aryan has done something
awful. 

1500
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,440
No one, I think, is disputing 
that. 

1501
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:19,800
But Aryan is Baylor's brother's 
son, and he's the one that Makar

1502
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:22,640
has put his hopes on. 
Baylor knows this. 

1503
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,840
And I don't think that Baylor, I
think Baylor cares enough about 

1504
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:31,360
Makar to not want to humiliate 
him, to not want to rub it in 

1505
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:35,000
that your son has not only done 
something so awful, but now 

1506
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:39,920
we're going to really publicly 
drag him through the mud, no pun

1507
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:43,720
intended, for what happens to 
him because he's done something 

1508
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:45,480
so awful. 
We're I'm not trying to 

1509
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:50,280
embarrass my brother like that. 
Makar is thinking and yeah, he 

1510
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:54,040
is a member of the royal family.
And again, we we mentioned this 

1511
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:57,640
just a bit ago, but we're in the
reach, which may have been the 

1512
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,720
heartland of black fire support.
If we start showing the royal 

1513
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,440
family is attacking one of its 
own, the royal family is 

1514
01:27:04,440 --> 01:27:08,080
undermining its own authority or
undermining its own power, Well,

1515
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:11,200
now we're starting to get into 
complicated political questions,

1516
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:14,680
which is I think something 
Baylor wants to avoid as much as

1517
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:18,960
possible. 
So the easiest answer maybe, and

1518
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,600
I think this is the answer that 
Baylor and Lord Ashford come up 

1519
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:27,240
with, is to say, you know, let's
just pretend, no, we're none of 

1520
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:31,080
us actually think that Aryan 
made a mistake here. 

1521
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:36,240
But just to make everything 
easy, let's pretend Aryan was 

1522
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:39,640
young, Arian was immature. 
He shouldn't have been doing 

1523
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:41,720
this, clearly wasn't ready for 
it. 

1524
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:46,440
Let's just treat it like that. 
Let's say you made a terrible 

1525
01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:50,400
mistake, yet it was your fault. 
But let's treat it as a terrible

1526
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:54,040
mistake. 
Let's act like you lost in a 

1527
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:59,480
relatively fairway, and then 
let's just all collectively 

1528
01:27:59,480 --> 01:28:03,240
forget that it happened. 
Now, to be clear, is this fair? 

1529
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:06,760
No, absolutely not. 
Of course it's not fair. 

1530
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:08,920
This does not in any way give 
justice to him. 

1531
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:11,160
Free Harding doesn't help him at
all. 

1532
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,960
But this is Westeros. 
Westeros is not a fair place. 

1533
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,640
It's it's baked in and it is one
of the fundamental themes, not 

1534
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,280
just a bad night, but of the 
Duck and Egg series as a whole. 

1535
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:23,480
Yeah, Aryan thought he could 
push it farther than he was 

1536
01:28:23,480 --> 01:28:26,480
aware of this imbalance, and he 
thought it was larger than it 

1537
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:29,400
really was. 
And it really goes to show where

1538
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:33,560
his head was at and what he 
expected in terms of himself and

1539
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:34,880
what he was allowed to get away 
with. 

1540
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:38,040
He didn't really care that he 
lost the horse. 

1541
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:44,040
He cared that he was thwarted by
adjudication, that he was ruled 

1542
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:49,920
against, that his plan to put 
himself above others by being 

1543
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:56,120
above the law, the rules was 
literally reversed in his face. 

1544
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:57,960
Like he thought he could do 
something that was against the 

1545
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,680
rules and no, you, you were 
disqualified. 

1546
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,040
He was literally the rules were 
applied to him. 

1547
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,440
So the most severe way possible,
even though it's not that much 

1548
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:09,200
of a punishment in the scheme of
things. 

1549
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:12,760
He can get another horse for 
nothing and they'll be more 

1550
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:16,080
tournaments and all that. 
But he's young, he's rash, and 

1551
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:20,600
he's a bully, so he's eager to 
lash out and make up for what he

1552
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,840
perceives as this embarrassment,
this failure, this unfair 

1553
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:26,880
result. 
I'm sure that's a big part of 

1554
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:28,120
it. 
I'm sure he feels like this was 

1555
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:31,880
all undeserved and and wrong. 
So here's what happens. 

1556
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:36,600
He encounters, unfortunately, 
Tanzel and the puppetry 

1557
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:40,000
performance quote. 
The puppeteers stall had been 

1558
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:43,520
knocked on its side. 
The fat Dornish woman was on the

1559
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:47,360
ground, weeping. 
One man at arms was dangling the

1560
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:51,960
puppets of Florian and Junkiel 
from his hands as another set 

1561
01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:56,120
them afire with a torch. 
Three more men were opening 

1562
01:29:56,120 --> 01:30:00,640
chests, spilling more puppets on
the ground and stamping on them.

1563
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:05,280
The dragon puppet was scattered 
all about them, a broken wing, 

1564
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:09,480
here it's head, there it's tail 
and three pieces. 

1565
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:15,200
And in the midst of it all stood
Prince Aryan, resplendent in a 

1566
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:19,800
red velvet doublet with long 
dagged sleeves, twisting 

1567
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:24,800
Tansel's arm in both hands. 
She was on her knees, pleading 

1568
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:27,360
with him. 
Aryan ignored her. 

1569
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:31,600
He forced open her hand and 
seized one of her fingers. 

1570
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:36,760
Dunk stood there, stupidly, not 
quite believing what he saw. 

1571
01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:41,840
Then he heard a crack and Tansel
screamed. 

1572
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:47,720
This is more self fulfilling 
beliefs here. 

1573
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:50,640
He believes he has the right to 
do this, just like he thought he

1574
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,520
had the right to be above the 
rules. 

1575
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,400
This is even more in his 
wheelhouse. 

1576
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:58,640
He thinks up that's treason. 
I can do whatever I want to 

1577
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:01,360
these people. 
Again, he's going beyond the 

1578
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,400
norms and probably in the back 
of his mind thinking even if I'm

1579
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:06,280
going too far I can get away 
with this. 

1580
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:11,400
But he really leaned into this 
at the same time he didn't 

1581
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:16,320
entirely invent the provocation.
He he had a semi legitimate 

1582
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:20,200
starting point not to do what he
did, but maybe have a complaint 

1583
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:21,520
perhaps? 
Is that fair? 

1584
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:25,680
Well, I I think it's certainly 
fair to say he takes advantage 

1585
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:30,200
in a grossly cruel and violent 
way or the situation that 

1586
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:32,920
already existed. 
What Baylor is going to go on to

1587
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:37,520
explain to Dunk is that red in 
the wrong light and Aryan is 

1588
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,560
definitely in the mindset to 
read something in the wrong 

1589
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:42,200
light. 
A show about a dragon being 

1590
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:46,560
slain is going to look like not 
so subtle propaganda against the

1591
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:49,760
Targaryen regime. 
We see exactly this in A Feast 

1592
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:51,800
for Crows. 
With this play, Cersei hears 

1593
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:56,760
about of the lions who overthrow
the Sags and then get overthrown

1594
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:59,640
by a dragon. 
And Cersei has the is this play 

1595
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:03,120
about us reaction. 
So if Aryan is looking for a 

1596
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:07,200
fight now, he's seeing something
that in his mind it looks like 

1597
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:10,760
it's recalling rebellion against
the Targaryens. 

1598
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:15,160
And again, we're only about a 
decade out from the first Black 

1599
01:32:15,160 --> 01:32:19,040
Fire Rebellion, A rebellion that
was intended to overthrow the 

1600
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:23,440
Targaryens. 
We're also barely 2 decades out 

1601
01:32:23,440 --> 01:32:28,760
from Dorn being formally 
incorporated into the Targaryen 

1602
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:32,400
Kingdom after the marriage of 
Prince Marin and Princess 

1603
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,400
Daenerys. 
So yes, Tansel and her 

1604
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:38,520
countrymen are absolutely 
citizens under the Iron Throne. 

1605
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:40,200
There was no question about 
that. 

1606
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:43,960
Subjects, I should say, not 
necessarily citizens, but it's 

1607
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:48,840
still Doran is still relatively 
a new member of this 

1608
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:52,600
sociopolitical family. 
There's still a lot of tension 

1609
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:56,840
and tension that goes back far 
longer than the Targaryen regime

1610
01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:01,880
between specifically Richmond 
and Dornish and Aryan seizing on

1611
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,520
all of that to get out his own 
feelings. 

1612
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:08,040
That's right. 
And ultimately, as much as all 

1613
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:11,680
this has an impact, it also just
comes down to basic bullying. 

1614
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:15,040
He sees a target, he sees an 
opportunity, and he jumps all 

1615
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:17,800
over that because it's the 
perfect opportunity for him to 

1616
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:21,400
vent his rage in a way that he 
thinks he can to get away with. 

1617
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:24,400
He's a little bit unlucky, I 
suppose, because Egg happened to

1618
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:29,160
be there, and that once again 
backfired in the same way his 

1619
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:33,440
expectations for the tournament 
were, which is that he thought 

1620
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:38,920
his father wouldn't necessarily 
hear of it, or that his father 

1621
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:41,040
wouldn't hear of it in a way 
that made him look bad. 

1622
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:44,480
Unfortunately for him, that's 
kind of the opposite of how it 

1623
01:33:44,480 --> 01:33:47,760
went. 
Now, would it be fair to say 

1624
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:51,000
that he's not really interested 
in justice for House Targaryen, 

1625
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:54,640
but he's interested more in just
maybe burying his own 

1626
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:59,000
insecurities or just venting 
about his unfair treatment in 

1627
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:02,000
the tournament how he perceived?
It absolutely and and again, and

1628
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:05,440
I brought this up with Humphrey 
Harding, who does Aryan attack 

1629
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:09,440
people he can punch down at 
Tansel and her fellow daughters 

1630
01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:13,720
woman are lowborn, they are 
women and they are Dornish and 

1631
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:18,160
all of those separately make 
them vulnerable in an extremely 

1632
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:21,960
classic society the way that 
Westeros is for someone like 

1633
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:25,240
Aryan who is both incredibly 
cruel and violent and also 

1634
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:29,400
incredibly inflated in his own 
ego to try to attack them. 

1635
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:32,720
And what does he do? 
He doesn't just attack them, as 

1636
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:37,560
with Humphrey Harding, he takes 
away their means of performing, 

1637
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:41,320
their profession. 
He's breaking their puppets. 

1638
01:34:41,480 --> 01:34:43,160
This isn't, you know, modern 
day. 

1639
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:47,360
You could just pop down to your 
local superstore and buy new 

1640
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:49,320
puppets. 
These are handmade. 

1641
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:52,840
These are bespoke puppets. 
It's going to take weeks, if 

1642
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:55,600
days, weeks, months to make new 
puppets. 

1643
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:58,040
That's investment. 
That's time that they're losing,

1644
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:01,400
not performing. 
He's also breaking to Tansel's 

1645
01:35:01,480 --> 01:35:03,280
fingers. 
He needs it's those. 

1646
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:06,120
She needs those to paint. 
She needs those to puppeteer. 

1647
01:35:06,280 --> 01:35:07,960
Who knows if they will heal 
correctly. 

1648
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:10,520
Who knows if she will ever be 
able to paint and puppeteer 

1649
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:14,320
again after this? 
He's deliberately attacking them

1650
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:17,120
in the way that matters most to 
them. 

1651
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:20,800
He is saying, oh, you put on a 
puppet show that I don't like, 

1652
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:23,400
I'm going to make sure you never
put on another puppet show 

1653
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:25,440
again. 
It's interesting to consider the

1654
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:30,360
moment of eggs reveal not just 
from a bad luck for your 

1655
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:33,200
bullying there, Aryan, but from 
his perspective. 

1656
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:35,880
It's very different what's going
on in that moment. 

1657
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:40,200
Everyone else is surprised to 
find out who AG is, including 

1658
01:35:40,200 --> 01:35:43,120
the audience, including Dunk and
including Aryan. 

1659
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:45,520
He's in like, whoa, my brother 
is here. 

1660
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:48,960
That's crazy. 
But Aryan was surprised that 

1661
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:52,120
Dunk was helping a commoner in 
the 1st place, that he was so, 

1662
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:55,600
so quote UN quote, throwing his 
life away for Tanzel. 

1663
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:59,720
He was also quite perplexed by 
his own brother doing that. 

1664
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:01,920
Not the throwing his life away 
part, because Egg wasn't 

1665
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,400
throwing his life away, but the 
fact that Egg would stand up for

1666
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:08,360
a commoner. 
I think that the sincerely blue 

1667
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:12,200
Aryan's mind, like really, you 
know, not, not from an evil like

1668
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:16,520
how dare you, like I'm baffled 
that you would do this. 

1669
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:21,520
He was, I think he was genuinely
curious, not enough to ask, but 

1670
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:26,360
because he was also embarrassed 
and thwarted in his goals there.

1671
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:29,400
But I think a big part of him 
was genuinely surprised at his 

1672
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:32,600
brother's reaction, not just his
presence. 

1673
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,680
He invokes Makar, of course, 
invokes his father, and that 

1674
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:38,080
changes the dynamic of 
everything for everyone there. 

1675
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:41,120
That's the one person that Aryan
might think twice about 

1676
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:43,680
upsetting so. 
And Egg knew that, didn't he? 

1677
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:47,760
Well, he does. 
And I think what Egg reveals in 

1678
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,760
that moment and you you speak to
it a referencing Aryan's 

1679
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:55,480
embarrassment is Egg is Egg is 
making clear on a relatively 

1680
01:36:55,480 --> 01:36:59,480
public stage, pretty public 
stage, that he and Aryan are not

1681
01:36:59,480 --> 01:37:03,400
that different when it comes to 
rank because Egg can command 

1682
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:06,040
these guardsmen just as much as 
Aryan can. 

1683
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:09,920
These are not Aryan's personal 
guardsmen, these are Targaryen 

1684
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,880
guardsmen, and they're sworn to 
obey a Targaryen. 

1685
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:17,960
If another Targaryen Prince is 
giving them an order that's in 

1686
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:20,680
conflict with the first 
Targaryen prince's order, 

1687
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:24,320
there's enough confusion there 
to stop them in their tracks, 

1688
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:27,680
and I think that's revealing in 
a way that I'm sure Aryan didn't

1689
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:31,320
appreciate, that you really 
don't have a lot of power with 

1690
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:33,920
in House Targaryen. 
Yes, you like to show off that 

1691
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,880
you do, but in reality your 
vanity is pretty hollow. 

1692
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:44,640
Check out my cool Duncan Egg 
Tour shirt Night of the Seven 

1693
01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:48,640
Kingdoms Tour shirt, designed by
Shea, has a number of key 

1694
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:52,880
locations that we know they were
involved in or had business in 

1695
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:57,640
across their nice long career, 
both triumphs and tragedies 

1696
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,240
alike. 
You can get one through the link

1697
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:03,960
in the description and show off 
your Duncan Egg knowledge, your 

1698
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,600
Duncan Egg fandom and support 
history of Westeros in the 

1699
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:09,560
process. 
Thanks to our Northern champion 

1700
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:12,160
patrons. 
J Wilson, Winter's King Jake 

1701
01:38:12,160 --> 01:38:15,760
Snow AKA Jacob Ice Eyes, the 
bastard of the last river, 

1702
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:19,400
Adelaard the Wanderer, wielder 
of the Valyrian steel axe. 

1703
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:23,520
Frost Fall, Tony of House 
Walowitza, a family of war 

1704
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:25,400
scouts. 
We scout the way. 

1705
01:38:25,480 --> 01:38:29,120
Winter's King, Lord of the First
Men, Lady Bobby of House 

1706
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:33,000
Mitchell, the Bitter Steel. 
Sir Peter, Knight of the Gallows

1707
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:37,200
Wood, Lady IR Ardross, Mother of
Wolves, wielder of the Valyrian 

1708
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:41,560
steel Claymore Manticore, 
Gandalf the White, Lord of House

1709
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:45,440
Seymourn, Aaron Snow, the 
Evergreen bastard who made a vow

1710
01:38:45,440 --> 01:38:47,880
to defend the North with his 
weirwood handled axe. 

1711
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:51,440
Timber fell. 
Liana Snow, the Raven in winter.

1712
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,240
Our cell sword captains include 
Hema Helmuth, Captain of the 

1713
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,280
Whispering Children. 
Dead men tell no secrets. 

1714
01:38:59,480 --> 01:39:02,720
Shepard, the Shepherd of Essos. 
All men are sheep before the 

1715
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:04,720
Shepherd. 
Heir to the Whispering Children.

1716
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:06,920
Lady Lajar Adagio, the Iron 
Lily. 

1717
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:09,280
Master Archer, Castellan of the 
Summer Island Keep. 

1718
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:13,280
Arboreal Point, Captain of the 
all female Wailing widows, women

1719
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:16,200
and children. 
First Lord Brandon Brewer of 

1720
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:18,920
Castle Blackroon, Captain of the
Shadow Wolves. 

1721
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:21,640
Our steel is cold, our vengeance
colder. 

1722
01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:25,360
Maester Malachi, forgotten 
dragon seed from the Isle of 

1723
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:27,160
Drift. 
Mark, now in service to House 

1724
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:30,960
Harlow, Styves the White, 
Captain of the Hopeful Patriots,

1725
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:35,400
a band of exile Nights motto. 
The world Ends when Hope dies. 

1726
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:39,800
And our Ironborn captains, Black
Matos, Storm Rider, captain of 

1727
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:43,040
the Rusted Hinge. 
Lord Chucklaws, captain of the 

1728
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:45,840
Droman's Night Blood, destroyer 
of evil. 

1729
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:49,120
Aileen Archer, Queen, captain of
the Border Collie. 

1730
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:52,160
Catherine the Cruel, captain of 
the Kraken's Claw. 

1731
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:57,480
Lana Del Rely, Death Dreamer, 
captain of the Cyclopean Call. 

1732
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:02,200
Nadia Storm, Mother of Worms and
Wyverns, captain of the Stygian 

1733
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:06,040
Darkness. 
Har, a dark charm known as Lady 

1734
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:09,880
Bad Luck, captain of the Black 
Cat and Prowler of the Seas. 

1735
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:14,760
Lydia the Drowner, AKA Lydia the
Kraken, Captain of Green Smile, 

1736
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:18,360
a long ship decorated with the 
rotting skulls of dead foes. 

1737
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:23,680
Your secret Targaryen captain of
Boricua Machateros from the 

1738
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:27,040
depths of Flea Bottom, Lord Ken 
of House Hammer is declared for 

1739
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:30,600
Queen Carrie Fire of the North 
who recovered Dark Sister from 

1740
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:36,040
beyond the Wall. 
Now unfortunately, Aryan is 

1741
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:41,200
clever enough to twist the 
situation a bit further to his 

1742
01:40:41,200 --> 01:40:45,320
advantage and to avoid becoming 
the person that has done 

1743
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:48,200
something wrong and continue to 
position himself as the person 

1744
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:51,000
that is a champion of House 
Targaryen, as a person that was 

1745
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:54,280
wronged and making Dunk into a 
villain. 

1746
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:58,280
Now Baylor knows what's going 
on. 

1747
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:01,760
He perceives this, but as we 
said before, it's not so simple 

1748
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:04,400
as just calling out Aryans 
crimes. 

1749
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:08,800
There's all these sorts of meta 
Targaryen political reasons 

1750
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:11,960
going on that we've already 
addressed, but it really 

1751
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:17,240
intensifies here as the charges 
and the thought that this could 

1752
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:20,880
all be put behind them is pretty
quickly thrown away. 

1753
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:22,200
There's really no chance of 
that. 

1754
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:23,680
This is going to be something 
public. 

1755
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:27,080
It's going to be exactly what 
Baylor didn't want, even more so

1756
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:31,360
than he first realized, if we're
throwing in a little dark humor 

1757
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:35,800
there. 
So Baylor also kind of says or 

1758
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,280
at least implies that, yeah, 
this is he was putting all his 

1759
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:40,960
hope in Aryan for this 
tournament. 

1760
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:44,640
And then look, what happens. 
Like this is extremely 

1761
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:46,800
embarrassing. 
It's kind of disastrous. 

1762
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,240
It's prickly. 
It's confusing. 

1763
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:52,960
Like, what do Baylor's comments,
the way he handles it in 

1764
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:56,800
general, what does that tell us 
about what make our area and 

1765
01:41:56,800 --> 01:42:00,520
what he's trying to balance with
what should be otherwise kind of

1766
01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:04,680
basic justice? 
And I think, you know, again, I 

1767
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:09,040
think that Baylor is someone who
really understands Makar in a 

1768
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:12,800
way that maybe no other 
character, at least leading up 

1769
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:16,440
to the Hedge night, understands 
Makar and, and, and in a way 

1770
01:42:16,440 --> 01:42:20,840
that is still very empathetic 
toward Makar too, Unfortunately.

1771
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:24,440
And I think Baylor may recognize
this, although he's not going to

1772
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:28,440
say it, especially to dunk. 
Maybe Baylor recognizes that 

1773
01:42:28,480 --> 01:42:31,680
Aryan is getting some of this 
bad behavior from dad. 

1774
01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:35,920
Makar is frustrated and 
embarrassed about how his sons 

1775
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:38,920
are acting. 
He not only hears obviously 

1776
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,640
about what Aryan does to 
Humphrey Harding and hears about

1777
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:44,960
what's happening with Tansel and
the puppeteers, but then he'd 

1778
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:50,840
also, he found Daron passed out 
drunk in and in with Egg nowhere

1779
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:53,360
to be seen. 
And Daron's cover story is that 

1780
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:55,480
a robber knight came off with 
him. 

1781
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:59,560
So Maker is in a place that I 
think he's feeling very 

1782
01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:04,560
frustrated and very embarrassed.
He invested himself emotionally 

1783
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:08,400
and psychologically into Aryan 
as what he saw as the most 

1784
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:12,120
promising of his sons, and now 
he's seeing that spectacular 

1785
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:16,400
actually blow up in his face, 
and he's seen that set against 

1786
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:20,440
what looked like Valar's 
victories on the tourney field. 

1787
01:43:20,440 --> 01:43:22,640
Now again, whether or not people
were actually throwing them for 

1788
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:28,240
Valar, it doesn't matter because
merely by not being a complete 

1789
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:32,480
sadist on the tourney field, 
Valar looks so much better than 

1790
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:36,240
Aryan. 
And so I think make our may have

1791
01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:39,520
gone to this tourney thinking 
this is the way for my sons to 

1792
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:41,600
show off. 
Now I'm going to look great with

1793
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:43,280
my sons. 
Now my sons are going to get 

1794
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:47,200
their moment in the sun. 
And he's completely humiliated 

1795
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:51,160
in his mind that Daryl and Aryan
are acting this way. 

1796
01:43:51,440 --> 01:43:55,600
But what does he do? 
Well, he doesn't say, Oh well, 

1797
01:43:55,760 --> 01:43:58,360
maybe I should look internally. 
Maybe I should do some 

1798
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:02,040
introspective thinking and see 
how I may have been to blame 

1799
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:03,760
here or what I could have done 
differently. 

1800
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:07,880
No. 
Like Aryan in this moment, Nakar

1801
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:11,840
leans into those classes biases.
He says, yeah, let's find 

1802
01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:14,000
someone external to blame. 
Let's blame Dunk. 

1803
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:17,280
I'm going to believe him because
that's a context that I can 

1804
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:19,280
believe. 
That's a way that this whole 

1805
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:22,120
story makes sense. 
That's a way that I can 

1806
01:44:22,440 --> 01:44:25,840
externalize my embarrassment and
my sense of failure. 

1807
01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:29,000
It's not not really Aryan and 
Aaron's fault. 

1808
01:44:29,320 --> 01:44:31,360
It's that darn no good hedge 
night. 

1809
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:33,880
He's the one that we need to 
punish here. 

1810
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:39,520
And we know that Makar is quick 
to judge and impatient. 

1811
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:44,280
And if he's impatient and this 
is a very trying situation, his 

1812
01:44:44,440 --> 01:44:49,840
lack of patience would be 
particularly at a peak right now

1813
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:53,280
because already a man who's 
running out of patience that has

1814
01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:56,600
little patience to begin with. 
Well, now Aryan knows this, 

1815
01:44:56,600 --> 01:44:58,720
knows this about his father. 
He knows his father's a man of 

1816
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:00,120
low patience. 
He knows he's a father of the 

1817
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:02,320
judges quickly. 
So if he gets to him first, 

1818
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:06,320
tells his story 1st and really 
leans into the details, then 

1819
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:07,520
that's what Makar is going to go
with. 

1820
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:09,560
And he'll stick to that because 
he's also stubborn. 

1821
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:13,440
And like you say, he's also 
prefers this version of events 

1822
01:45:13,440 --> 01:45:16,520
to the one that embarrasses his 
side of the family even more, 

1823
01:45:16,600 --> 01:45:18,240
something he cares very much 
about. 

1824
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:23,720
So it does work quite well. 
Aryan is really playing his 

1825
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:26,720
father like a fiddle here. 
I think Baylor realizes it, but 

1826
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:30,920
to call them him out would 
embarrass Makar even further. 

1827
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:35,800
So when Baylor suggests Dunk 
demand a trial by combat, Dunk 

1828
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:38,360
seizes on that. 
It seems like a good idea. 

1829
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:43,080
Aryan is very much ready for it.
He pivots to the trial by 7. 

1830
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:45,120
Aryan was clearly ready for 
this. 

1831
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:50,080
Again, he's thought ahead of the
in this scenario and it shows 

1832
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:54,560
that he's ready for what's going
to happen. 

1833
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:57,520
And it also refers to before his
willingness to pick on certain 

1834
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:00,680
people but not face others. 
So he didn't want to face the 

1835
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:04,920
laughing storm or Leo Longthorne
in a quote UN quote fair fight. 

1836
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:06,600
He doesn't want to face Duncan a
fair fight. 

1837
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:11,200
But if he can con his father at 
the Kingsguard into fighting at 

1838
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:14,560
his side, boom, he obviously is 
going to feel like he has the 

1839
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:16,680
upper hand. 
And I'm pretty sure that's what 

1840
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:20,880
he was going for all along. 
I think he saw put all the steps

1841
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:24,360
together, knew he was going to 
ask for a trial by 7, knew that 

1842
01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:27,320
was within his rights and knew 
that his father would have to 

1843
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:29,640
out of honor join. 
That's his father's predictable 

1844
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:33,040
that way, and I'm pretty sure he
also saw the Kings guard part 

1845
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:34,240
coming. 
What do you think about that? 

1846
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:37,360
Is that like his father's? 
Predictable And I think the 

1847
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:39,840
Kings Guard is the next step 
there, but maybe not. 

1848
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,000
I mean, here's here's the 
interesting thing about the the 

1849
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,440
trial of seven, because this is 
the way that I, I kind of read 

1850
01:46:46,440 --> 01:46:47,920
it and you know, I know that 
there's different 

1851
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:52,160
interpretations of this, but the
way I read Aryan asking for a 

1852
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:56,320
trial of seven in the story, I 
actually don't know if Aryan 

1853
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,800
really thought that Dunk would 
even know what a trial by combat

1854
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,280
is. 
Because again, in Aryan's mind, 

1855
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:04,160
Dunk doesn't even really a 
knight. 

1856
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:07,800
Dunk is some peasant that's 
calling himself a knight. 

1857
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:11,920
He's a boy, he's a servant, he's
a small folk from nowhere. 

1858
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:14,120
So how does he know what a trial
by combat is? 

1859
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:15,760
He shouldn't deserve a trial by 
combat. 

1860
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:18,720
That's for Knights like me. 
That's for aristocrats. 

1861
01:47:19,080 --> 01:47:23,720
So when I mean to be fair, Dunk 
probably wouldn't have asked for

1862
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:27,000
a trial by combat unless Baylor 
kind of gave him the idea or 

1863
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:31,720
planted that idea. 
But when he does, I think in 

1864
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:35,160
Aryan's mind it's OK. 
Dunk has asked for a trial by 

1865
01:47:35,160 --> 01:47:38,480
combat. 
To your point, if I'm Aryan, I 

1866
01:47:38,480 --> 01:47:41,920
don't want to face Dunk because 
he might kick my butt and I'm 

1867
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:45,800
I'm too cowardly to face him. 
So how do I get around this? 

1868
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:49,560
Ah, I know a trial of seven. 
Why? 

1869
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:54,240
Because a trial of seven you 
need 6 campions on east side. 

1870
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:58,240
Well I'm a Targaryen, obviously 
everyone will fight for me. 

1871
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:03,080
But who will fight for Dunk? 
Who will take up arms for the 

1872
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:06,600
teenage slum kid who's now 
calling himself a hedge knight 

1873
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:10,080
who just publicly attacked a 
royal Prince? 

1874
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:13,680
Who is going to take up arms 
against the royal family? 

1875
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:16,040
Any takers? 
Don't hear. 

1876
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:19,520
Anything's Aryan. 
And if Dunk can't find 6 

1877
01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:24,360
champions, Dunk loses 
automatically, no ifs, ands or 

1878
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:26,960
buts. 
And so I think Aryan is thinking

1879
01:48:27,480 --> 01:48:32,640
this is a win win for me either.
Dunk, I think, predictably can't

1880
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:35,200
find any champions because who's
going to stand with him? 

1881
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:39,320
But even if he does, even if he 
manages to scrounge up a bunch 

1882
01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:41,440
of local yokels who will fight 
for him? 

1883
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:44,520
Come on, I'm not going to. 
I'm not scared of them. 

1884
01:48:44,520 --> 01:48:47,880
I've got Kingsguard on my side, 
I've got Dad on my side, I've 

1885
01:48:47,880 --> 01:48:50,000
got the rest of the royal family
on my side. 

1886
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:51,880
We'll, we'll put them in their 
place. 

1887
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:55,640
So I think Arion was thinking. 
I don't really want to fight a 

1888
01:48:55,640 --> 01:49:00,360
trial vice combat, but if I have
to then I'm going to be sure to 

1889
01:49:00,360 --> 01:49:02,600
win. 
Yeah, I like that analysis of 

1890
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:05,240
it. 
I think it makes sense that he 

1891
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:08,200
expected to win on a 
technicality, but had the fall 

1892
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:11,680
back of yeah, we'll win. 
Even if not, I think this fits 

1893
01:49:11,680 --> 01:49:16,600
very well with his misperception
of how people would react to 

1894
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:18,960
what he did to Humphrey Harding 
and then what he did to the 

1895
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:22,440
puppet show. 
He would expect people to not 

1896
01:49:22,440 --> 01:49:26,000
stand against the dragon, to 
fear the Dragon's wrath, to fear

1897
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:27,360
the royal wrath, all those 
things. 

1898
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:29,880
Like you said, they wouldn't 
stand up against him probably. 

1899
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:33,880
And that's somewhat typical 
bully thinking maybe a few steps

1900
01:49:33,880 --> 01:49:35,480
ahead of that. 
It's a little cleverer than 

1901
01:49:35,480 --> 01:49:37,320
that. 
And I think there's a little bit

1902
01:49:37,320 --> 01:49:40,200
of maybe early life subtext 
here. 

1903
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:44,920
The the person that last had a 
trial of seven was Magor the 

1904
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:48,800
Cruel himself. 
And well, Aryan seems to have a 

1905
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:52,440
penchant for Magor the Cruel 
probably was a fanboy, like the 

1906
01:49:52,440 --> 01:49:55,640
whole projection of strength. 
And you know, his version of 

1907
01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:59,360
strength is hurting people and, 
and causing them to fear you by 

1908
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:01,960
inflicting extreme pain and 
violence and cruelty and all 

1909
01:50:01,960 --> 01:50:03,080
that. 
He probably was like, yeah, 

1910
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:06,360
that's that's the way to do it. 
Megor really knew what was up. 

1911
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:10,680
So it makes sense that he would 
know this somewhat obscure thing

1912
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:12,760
because he doesn't come off as 
like a scholar. 

1913
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:15,080
And once again, he's kind of 
young, so it's not like he would

1914
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:19,280
have encountered it necessarily 
out in the wild because a lot of

1915
01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:20,480
people didn't even know it 
existed. 

1916
01:50:20,480 --> 01:50:23,160
So I think that's pretty 
interesting as well. 

1917
01:50:23,400 --> 01:50:27,000
If he thought ahead, like we 
said, then he knew what he would

1918
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:29,520
have on his side. 
He probably didn't perceive 

1919
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:31,840
exactly what he would be going 
up against. 

1920
01:50:32,160 --> 01:50:39,000
Now, there's a lot of analysis 
out there, understandably, of 

1921
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:42,280
Dunk getting his champions and 
how that all went down. 

1922
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:44,520
This is probably a surprise to 
Aryan. 

1923
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:50,200
The part that we have on our 
side is Aryan inducing Stefan 

1924
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:52,600
Fossaway. 
Now it sounds like Stephen 

1925
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:56,600
Fossaway brought this idea to 
Aryan. 

1926
01:50:56,600 --> 01:51:00,520
He's like, look, I just got dunk
on my side and I would screw him

1927
01:51:00,520 --> 01:51:02,000
over. 
I can do that for you. 

1928
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:04,760
And Aryan was all about that 
because as we have been saying, 

1929
01:51:04,760 --> 01:51:07,520
he probably was trying to win on
a technicality in the 1st place.

1930
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:12,280
So stripping him of one of his 
thin hopes of champions on his 

1931
01:51:12,280 --> 01:51:15,840
side would, especially one at 
the last minute, was a a sure 

1932
01:51:15,840 --> 01:51:18,240
way to to make sure Aryan's plan
went up. 

1933
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:22,280
Honestly, Aryan's plan is pretty
good, it just didn't work out 

1934
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:24,520
but. 
I mean, that's the thing, Aryan.

1935
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:28,360
Aryan is cruel and vain and 
arrogant and sadistic. 

1936
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:32,360
He's not stupid. 
Aryan is is not a stupid person.

1937
01:51:32,360 --> 01:51:36,840
And I think he's very well aware
of where the class biases in 

1938
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:40,560
Westeros will work in his favor 
because they have for so many 

1939
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:42,880
years. 
I mean, Aryan is operating in a 

1940
01:51:42,880 --> 01:51:46,800
world that is deeply classist, 
So, and I like the idea that 

1941
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:49,720
Stefan kind of came to Aryan 
with this idea because I could 

1942
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:54,240
see the appeal for Aryan of 
taking that away from dunk at 

1943
01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:57,120
the last minute. 
Like just when you think that 

1944
01:51:57,120 --> 01:52:00,080
you might actually have a shot, 
ha, ha, ha, I got you. 

1945
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:02,200
You don't even have the 
Champions you think you have 

1946
01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:03,800
because they're actually on my 
side. 

1947
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:07,240
You know, this sort of really 
punching down at someone where 

1948
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:09,800
it's going to hurt the most. 
I think that would appeal to 

1949
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:12,520
Aryan. 
Speaking of hurting the most 

1950
01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:16,840
too, it seems to go even better 
for Aryan because even though a 

1951
01:52:16,840 --> 01:52:20,640
lot of his plans were thwarted, 
ultimately when the joust 

1952
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:25,160
begins, the trial begins, Aryan 
gets the upper hand severely. 

1953
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:28,360
It looks really bad for Dunk. 
So Aryan might have been 

1954
01:52:28,360 --> 01:52:31,880
thinking, Dang it, I thought I 
would just win without even 

1955
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:34,320
fighting, but hey, I am fighting
and I'm winning. 

1956
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,480
That's even better. 
You know, I actually get to beat

1957
01:52:36,480 --> 01:52:39,600
the crap out of this guy, which 
I'm sure he was enjoying himself

1958
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:42,440
getting that Lance true. 
I'm sure he was very satisfied 

1959
01:52:42,440 --> 01:52:45,400
stabbing Dunk with his Lance and
then getting to whack him with 

1960
01:52:45,400 --> 01:52:47,240
his Morning star. 
He was enjoying that. 

1961
01:52:47,240 --> 01:52:49,600
He was taunting him. 
Yeah, he was. 

1962
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:54,600
He was having a grand old time. 
But that's what ultimately was 

1963
01:52:54,600 --> 01:52:57,880
his problem, wasn't it? 
His grand old time became a 

1964
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:01,480
little too distracting. 
You mean how, how many times 

1965
01:53:01,480 --> 01:53:03,880
it's it's such a trope and it's 
a trope for a reason. 

1966
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:07,440
What brings down the villain? 
The villain's hubris. 

1967
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:12,040
What Dunk realizes is that now 
as Sir Duncan the tall, I can't 

1968
01:53:12,040 --> 01:53:15,840
be Aryan because Aryan's been 
trained for his entire life to 

1969
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:18,680
be had moral training throughout
his entire life. 

1970
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:22,640
I should say he's had the best 
nights that you know, the Royals

1971
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:24,600
can get. 
He's been doing this probably 

1972
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:27,240
every single day from the time 
he was old enough to sit a 

1973
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:30,920
horse. 
And I've barely, barely, barely 

1974
01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:32,560
started on my night hood 
journey. 

1975
01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:37,040
But what I can do is I can be 
Dunk of Flea Bottom. 

1976
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:40,560
Aryan doesn't know how to fight 
Dunk of Flea Bottom. 

1977
01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:45,280
All of that aristocratic 
chivalric training, all of that 

1978
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:49,800
Marshall ability that make our 
so wanted Aryan to have, that 

1979
01:53:49,800 --> 01:53:54,440
goes right out the window the 
minute that Dunk can use just 

1980
01:53:54,440 --> 01:54:00,440
the sheer physical presence of 
himself to just absolutely be 

1981
01:54:00,480 --> 01:54:02,880
Aryan. 
And I think you know what? 

1982
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:07,160
What Dunk notices is that when 
he finally gets Aryan's helm 

1983
01:54:07,280 --> 01:54:11,640
open, he sees fear. 
There's fear in Aryan's eyes. 

1984
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:17,440
I think this is probably, if not
the first time, 1 of very, very 

1985
01:54:17,440 --> 01:54:22,640
very few times in his life that 
Aryan has ever feared, has ever 

1986
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:26,280
feared for his life. 
Dunk is within his rights in 

1987
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:30,120
this moment to kill Aryan. 
He is perfectly legally capable 

1988
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:32,680
of killing Aryan in a trial by 
combat. 

1989
01:54:32,680 --> 01:54:36,520
This is not a modified trial by 
combat to first blood or just 

1990
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:37,840
until the other person 
surrenders. 

1991
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:41,280
No no no, it's until surrender 
or death. 

1992
01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:46,400
If he wants to kill Aryan, he 
can, and Aryan knows this. 

1993
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:50,280
And even if Aryan doesn't admit 
it in this moment, this is 

1994
01:54:50,280 --> 01:54:55,600
entirely his fault. 
He is almost about to be killed 

1995
01:54:55,600 --> 01:54:59,640
by Dunk, and it is entirely his 
doing. 

1996
01:54:59,920 --> 01:55:04,760
If he had never mocked and 
harassed Dunk, if he had never 

1997
01:55:04,760 --> 01:55:09,280
attacked Hansel, if he had never
demanded this trial of seven, 

1998
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:14,040
this would never have happened. 
But now he is in a position that

1999
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:19,240
he is having this giant of a 
young head knight absolutely 

2000
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:23,080
beating him to the point that he
might kill him. 

2001
01:55:23,600 --> 01:55:28,400
And the only thing that stops 
Dunk's hand is Dunk's desire to 

2002
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:32,880
be, as he puts it, nightly. 
The one thing Aryan absolutely 

2003
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:36,680
couldn't do is the only thing 
that saves Aryan's life in this 

2004
01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:38,960
moment. 
It's true, Aryan is probably 

2005
01:55:38,960 --> 01:55:40,960
still kind of baffled by it 
afterwards. 

2006
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:44,560
And just like he didn't 
understand people standing up 

2007
01:55:44,560 --> 01:55:48,720
for commoners, whether it was 
Dunk or or Egg himself, he 

2008
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:52,720
didn't really get necessarily or
expect to be given mercy here. 

2009
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:54,160
He's probably legitimately 
surprised. 

2010
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:56,920
Yet he still couldn't help, you 
know, trying to get into cheap 

2011
01:55:56,920 --> 01:56:00,760
shot and, you know, getting 
around his fate there, even 

2012
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:07,840
though that probably risked him 
having his stay of execution by 

2013
01:56:07,840 --> 01:56:10,680
dunk reversed there. 
You know, he's like, look, I 

2014
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:13,440
could have, I was letting you 
live and then you go and try to 

2015
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:15,560
make a dive for your maze. 
I should have killed you for 

2016
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:19,280
that, but I'm still going to 
just drag you through the mud 

2017
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:22,920
and embarrass you. 
So there's no doubt that Stephen

2018
01:56:22,920 --> 01:56:26,760
Fossaway didn't get his reward 
there cuz Aryan didn't win. 

2019
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:29,480
I'm not sure Aryan could have 
given him that reward even if he

2020
01:56:29,480 --> 01:56:32,400
had one. 
That's a whole side little 

2021
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:34,720
trivia topic, whether that could
have been done. 

2022
01:56:34,720 --> 01:56:36,880
Aryan certainly can't just make 
Lords. 

2023
01:56:37,600 --> 01:56:40,200
Even Makar can't do that. 
Well, maybe when Makar is king, 

2024
01:56:40,200 --> 01:56:41,920
well, definitely when he's king 
he could do that. 

2025
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:45,840
But that was, you know, years 
from now, certainly wouldn't 

2026
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:47,880
have seen. 
That come imagine imagine Stefan

2027
01:56:47,880 --> 01:56:51,120
Fosway trying to show up to 
Makar's doorstep in the 

2028
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:55,440
metaphorical doorstep in the 
aftermath of this trial of seven

2029
01:56:55,440 --> 01:57:00,080
and going up to him and saying, 
you know, your grace, your son 

2030
01:57:00,080 --> 01:57:03,480
kind of sort of promised that he
would give me a lordship and no,

2031
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:05,800
he didn't win. 
But you think you still maybe 

2032
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:09,160
want. 
I mean, it's that I hope if 

2033
01:57:09,160 --> 01:57:13,080
Stephan had a single brain cell,
he got out of there as quickly 

2034
01:57:13,080 --> 01:57:17,120
as he possibly could because I 
would absolutely not want to be 

2035
01:57:17,120 --> 01:57:20,560
Stephan Foss away answering to 
make our in the aftermath of 

2036
01:57:20,560 --> 01:57:22,800
that trial. 
He'd say something a lot more 

2037
01:57:22,800 --> 01:57:25,400
harsh than not. 
Bloody likely, like he said, to 

2038
01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:26,640
dunk there. 
Yeah. 

2039
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:30,480
And of course, Aryan had other 
problems. 

2040
01:57:31,160 --> 01:57:36,080
The immediate issue would be his
pride, which would probably be a

2041
01:57:36,080 --> 01:57:38,920
bigger pain than his physical 
problems, but those would have 

2042
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:41,520
plagued him as well. 
He probably had a concussion and

2043
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:46,000
some other wounds, but he was 
going to have other issues. 

2044
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:49,440
He may have been doing some of 
his healing on the road, so to 

2045
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:53,680
speak, and not because he wanted
to be on the road. 

2046
01:57:56,160 --> 01:58:01,120
Let's talk about Aryan in exile.
He certainly didn't plan on this

2047
01:58:01,120 --> 01:58:04,320
being the end result of his 
dealings and doings at Ashford 

2048
01:58:04,600 --> 01:58:08,200
make our ordered him into to go 
to lease rather. 

2049
01:58:08,200 --> 01:58:10,840
Why lease though, of all places?
That seems kind of odd. 

2050
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:13,320
Like on the outside, it's like, 
well, that's like a party spot. 

2051
01:58:13,320 --> 01:58:15,960
It seems like a vacation place. 
This is doesn't really seem like

2052
01:58:15,960 --> 01:58:20,480
a punishment, but it's a 
different perspective when 

2053
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:24,000
you're talking about a royal and
well, let's let's talk about 

2054
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:24,680
this. 
What do you think? 

2055
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:29,440
A couple things going on here, I
think #1 Makar may have thought 

2056
01:58:29,440 --> 01:58:33,560
that Lease would be the most 
distracting, especially 

2057
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:38,000
precisely to your plate, because
Lease is famous for its pleasure

2058
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:41,200
houses. 
So maybe Makar is thinking that 

2059
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:45,240
Aryan, well, Aryan is clearly 
extremely vain. 

2060
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:47,920
He's clearly extremely 
egotistical. 

2061
01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:51,800
So why don't we send him to a 
place that can just feed that? 

2062
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:55,280
Let's just send him to a place 
that's going to give him all of 

2063
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:58,880
these petty distractions, for 
lack of a better term. 

2064
01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:03,240
And that way we keep him out of 
more nefarious mischief, if we 

2065
01:59:03,240 --> 01:59:05,480
can put it that way. 
You know, he's not going to be 

2066
01:59:05,480 --> 01:59:09,240
looking around to cause more 
serious trouble if he's spending

2067
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:11,200
all his time in the pleasure 
houses of lease. 

2068
01:59:11,480 --> 01:59:15,520
But I think Makers also may be 
thinking, there's only so many 

2069
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:19,840
places that I can send Aryan. 
And there's certainly places I 

2070
01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:23,640
can't send him like Tie Rush, 
because that's where the Black 

2071
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:27,280
Fire Court in exile is. 
So I think Maker was thinking, I

2072
01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:31,560
need to really kind of make sure
that Aryan stays away from. 

2073
01:59:31,560 --> 01:59:35,080
And we don't know, you know, who
may have been allies in the Free

2074
01:59:35,080 --> 01:59:37,240
Cities with Tie Rush at this 
point or what sort of 

2075
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:39,440
connections Tie Rush had. 
But Maker may have been 

2076
01:59:39,440 --> 01:59:42,440
thinking, I don't want to kind 
of get in the crosshairs, 

2077
01:59:42,440 --> 01:59:45,640
political crosshairs, so to 
speak, of the black fires if I'm

2078
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:48,880
sending Aryan, certainly to tie 
rush, but even anywhere that 

2079
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:51,440
might have ties to tie rush, no 
pun intended. 

2080
01:59:51,680 --> 01:59:55,840
At this point. 
It's also possible that Makar 

2081
01:59:56,040 --> 02:00:01,240
was thinking that that lease 
would be a way for him to sort 

2082
02:00:01,240 --> 02:00:05,800
of keep an eye without keeping 
an eye on Aryan because sheer 

2083
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:08,200
sea stars family is is from 
lease. 

2084
02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:10,680
Her mother was Lysine noblewoman
Sarini. 

2085
02:00:11,120 --> 02:00:13,880
And I'm going to assume that 
they probably still had 

2086
02:00:13,880 --> 02:00:16,720
relatives there. 
I don't know what connections 

2087
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:21,240
Shira may have had to her like 
any side of the family, but it's

2088
02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:25,040
possible that make our kind of 
quietly talked to Shira and 

2089
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:29,240
said, Hey, Shira, can you just 
maybe you know, just send a send

2090
02:00:29,240 --> 02:00:31,080
a message to to your folks in 
lease. 

2091
02:00:31,080 --> 02:00:34,600
Just keep one eye on Aaron. 
Just make sure he doesn't get 

2092
02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:36,640
into too much trouble. 
I don't really care if he's 

2093
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:39,320
involved in the pleasure houses.
Just make sure he's not doing 

2094
02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:42,320
anything that's actually a 
problem. 

2095
02:00:42,480 --> 02:00:45,360
It kind of, you know, gently, 
sort of keep an eye on him. 

2096
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:49,480
And then it's also possible, you
know, we talked about make ours 

2097
02:00:49,480 --> 02:00:52,600
embarrassment before, clearly 
make ours doing this as a 

2098
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:54,960
punishment for Aryan. 
He's trying to send him abroad. 

2099
02:00:55,280 --> 02:00:59,440
So maybe he's sending Aryan to 
lease as we've seen him as 

2100
02:00:59,440 --> 02:01:02,200
saying, you know what, You've 
been so bad. 

2101
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:07,000
You have so disgraced yourself 
in the traditional Marshall ways

2102
02:01:07,000 --> 02:01:10,480
of Westeros, you're no good for 
anything except pleasure houses,

2103
02:01:10,520 --> 02:01:13,800
so you might as well just waste 
your time there because you're 

2104
02:01:13,800 --> 02:01:15,320
certainly not worth anything 
here. 

2105
02:01:16,280 --> 02:01:19,000
That's a good way to think about
it, and we have to put ourselves

2106
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:22,920
in make our shoes as to what he 
would be thinking about, what 

2107
02:01:22,920 --> 02:01:25,600
type of punishment he would want
to inflict and what Aryan would 

2108
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:30,080
consider a punishment and make 
our maybe being in denial 

2109
02:01:30,080 --> 02:01:32,000
somewhat about what kind of 
person Aryan was. 

2110
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:34,800
He would still have an idea and 
he would still be severe. 

2111
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:37,960
We know that Makar tends to be 
harsh and severe, so he must 

2112
02:01:37,960 --> 02:01:41,520
have thought this was quite a 
punishment, even if from some 

2113
02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:43,320
angles it seems like less of 
such. 

2114
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:46,720
We get a brief sense of Aryan's 
exile from George himself. 

2115
02:01:46,720 --> 02:01:51,960
There was a fan named S Andrews 
who asked back in the day if 

2116
02:01:51,960 --> 02:01:57,400
Duncan fathered a family and is 
that family existent and why 

2117
02:01:57,400 --> 02:02:01,640
haven't we seen Amon and whether
Danny has kin in lease because 

2118
02:02:01,640 --> 02:02:07,280
of Aryan Bright Fire's exile? 
George RR Martin lastly, well 

2119
02:02:07,560 --> 02:02:11,560
Aryan Bright Fire did not stay 
in lease all his life, only a 

2120
02:02:11,560 --> 02:02:13,840
few years. 
He may have fathered a few 

2121
02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:18,800
bastards there, which would mean
Danny has relatives of a sort in

2122
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:23,160
Lease, but they would be very 
distant relatives from the wrong

2123
02:02:23,160 --> 02:02:26,720
side of the blanket. 
It's a place full of history and

2124
02:02:26,720 --> 02:02:29,840
of course it has ties to Old 
Valyria, including by blood 

2125
02:02:29,840 --> 02:02:33,000
ancestry. 
So of course this opens up a lot

2126
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:36,480
of doors, a lot of fan theories,
a lot of fun ideas, a lot of 

2127
02:02:36,480 --> 02:02:37,960
different rabbit holes to go 
down. 

2128
02:02:38,200 --> 02:02:42,680
One in particular that I want to
draw our attention to is that 

2129
02:02:42,680 --> 02:02:47,760
Yandel will later say that Aryan
was a dabbler in the Black arts.

2130
02:02:48,080 --> 02:02:53,720
Now sort of have a head cannon 
that this began during this time

2131
02:02:53,720 --> 02:02:56,720
and lease where there's more 
connection to that sort of thing

2132
02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:59,840
where he had less to do. 
I don't think his father would 

2133
02:02:59,840 --> 02:03:02,200
have approved of that 
necessarily. 

2134
02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:05,600
And it also a little bit fits 
with your Shira C Star's family 

2135
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:06,920
thing because she was involved 
in magic. 

2136
02:03:06,920 --> 02:03:11,080
So maybe if they were connected 
more directly, then they got him

2137
02:03:11,080 --> 02:03:12,120
started on that. 
Who knows? 

2138
02:03:12,120 --> 02:03:15,160
There's a lot of different 
possibilities, but I definitely 

2139
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:18,200
think it fits that he got 
started here. 

2140
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:20,560
What do you think of that? 
No, I absolutely agree. 

2141
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:24,560
I think that to your point, 
Aryan is probably bored. 

2142
02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:27,040
There is, you know, he could 
spend the time in pleasure 

2143
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:30,760
houses, but there's not much for
him to do in terms of what he 

2144
02:03:30,760 --> 02:03:34,320
was doing in Westeros, torturing
his family and competing in 

2145
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:36,400
tournaments, torturing the 
people in the tournaments. 

2146
02:03:36,680 --> 02:03:41,960
So if Aryan is looking for 
something to do, this is known. 

2147
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:46,120
And for its alchemists who are 
specializing in these rare and 

2148
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:49,600
deadly poisons. 
And we know because Egg reports 

2149
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:53,160
on it that Sierra supposedly 
uses Black arts. 

2150
02:03:53,280 --> 02:03:57,600
Her Lyzine mother supposedly 
used sorceries and was reported 

2151
02:03:57,600 --> 02:04:01,280
to be a a sorceress. 
And even today, according to the

2152
02:04:01,280 --> 02:04:05,840
Royal Bison Fire, the Lyzenia 
are still strangely obsessed 

2153
02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:09,080
with blood purities. 
Don't really like to emphasize 

2154
02:04:09,080 --> 02:04:11,240
that they are the blood of Old 
Valyria. 

2155
02:04:11,240 --> 02:04:15,040
Emphasis on blood. 
So I think that if Aaron is 

2156
02:04:15,040 --> 02:04:17,280
bored and he's looking for 
something to do beyond the 

2157
02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:20,840
pleasure houses of lease and he 
can't go anywhere else, maybe he

2158
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:23,240
does start to dabble. 
Maybe he does start to think, 

2159
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:25,720
ah, this is this is a city that 
gets me. 

2160
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:29,520
This is a city that appreciates 
A Targaryen, that appreciates 

2161
02:04:29,720 --> 02:04:32,760
how exalted we are because of 
our Targaryen blood. 

2162
02:04:32,760 --> 02:04:34,880
I'd, I'd like to know more about
that. 

2163
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:37,600
I'd like to get on the same 
page, so to speak with with you,

2164
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:40,800
Lazeni. 
More certain is that this is the

2165
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:44,800
period where he had his stint in
the second son, so we'd have to 

2166
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:46,920
think right? 
Oh, no, absolutely. 

2167
02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:50,920
I mean, it's pretty, I don't 
know if I wouldn't say typical, 

2168
02:04:50,920 --> 02:04:54,760
but certainly not uncommon for 
aristocratic Westerosi, 

2169
02:04:54,760 --> 02:04:59,160
especially those who don't have 
much else to do to join or even 

2170
02:04:59,160 --> 02:05:03,360
form sell sword companies in in 
Essos, we see this with Oscar 

2171
02:05:03,360 --> 02:05:06,080
Tolley with the Storm Breakers. 
We see this with House Hornwood 

2172
02:05:06,080 --> 02:05:08,800
and Tiffany Snow with the 
Wolfpack in the aftermath of the

2173
02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:10,760
dance. 
They've got nothing to do. 

2174
02:05:10,760 --> 02:05:13,640
The dance is over, they've got 
no war to fight, and they're not

2175
02:05:13,640 --> 02:05:16,600
the leaders of their houses. 
So what do you do? 

2176
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:19,240
Well, you go try and make a 
fortune across the Narrow Sea 

2177
02:05:19,240 --> 02:05:21,680
with the one thing you're good 
at, which is war. 

2178
02:05:21,680 --> 02:05:26,280
And we see it with Uber Martel. 
He goes into exile after he 

2179
02:05:26,280 --> 02:05:29,920
fights the duel with Lord 
Ironwood and probably poisons 

2180
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:31,920
him. 
And then he joins. 

2181
02:05:32,040 --> 02:05:35,640
Also the Second Sons. 
We have Jorah and Tyrion, who 

2182
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:39,960
are now joining the Second Sons.
We see John Connington, he goes 

2183
02:05:39,960 --> 02:05:41,880
into exile after that on the 
Bells. 

2184
02:05:42,080 --> 02:05:44,080
He eventually joins the Golden 
Company. 

2185
02:05:44,360 --> 02:05:49,240
So I think having this sort of 
short term career, for lack of 

2186
02:05:49,240 --> 02:05:52,920
better term, as a sell sword may
have appealed to Aryan. 

2187
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:57,560
We talked about he was trained 
probably from a very early age 

2188
02:05:57,640 --> 02:06:02,200
in Marshall skills, particularly
under the eye of Makar. 

2189
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:05,880
So Aaron's probably decent with 
a sword and a Lance, probably 

2190
02:06:05,880 --> 02:06:07,960
decent in terms of these 
Marshall skills. 

2191
02:06:08,240 --> 02:06:13,160
So as someone who certainly in 
Aryan's mind likes to seek out 

2192
02:06:13,440 --> 02:06:17,040
bloodshed and pain, well, a 
career was a second son is 

2193
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:18,720
probably going to appeal to him 
like that. 

2194
02:06:18,880 --> 02:06:22,120
Oh, you get. 
You mean that I get paid to go 

2195
02:06:22,120 --> 02:06:25,440
fight in war and go be violent 
against your enemies? 

2196
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:26,800
Great. 
Fantastic. 

2197
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:30,400
Where do I sign up? 
You know, he's not the money 

2198
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:31,720
part probably doesn't matter to 
him. 

2199
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:35,200
He's a Prince. 
He's in exile, deliberately so. 

2200
02:06:35,200 --> 02:06:37,880
I'm sure he's probably getting 
some kind of stipend or 

2201
02:06:37,880 --> 02:06:40,080
allowance from the crown or from
his father. 

2202
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:43,240
But it's still it's still an old
and distinguished company. 

2203
02:06:43,240 --> 02:06:45,920
The second son certainly in this
era where the golden Company 

2204
02:06:45,920 --> 02:06:49,440
doesn't exist. 
So it may have had a sort of pen

2205
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:53,880
ass or an appeal to to Aryan to 
say, well if I've got nothing 

2206
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:57,520
better to do, all I've got are 
pleasure houses at least, I 

2207
02:06:57,560 --> 02:07:00,720
might as well go use these 
martial skills that I have and 

2208
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:02,520
go fight in war and go shed some
blood. 

2209
02:07:02,720 --> 02:07:04,640
Yeah. 
And it's kind of thing that he 

2210
02:07:04,640 --> 02:07:08,200
could do his worst, so to speak,
and maybe get away with it in an

2211
02:07:08,200 --> 02:07:10,120
environment like that. 
And I think he would see the 

2212
02:07:10,120 --> 02:07:12,960
appeal to be kind of obvious 
from that perspective. 

2213
02:07:13,200 --> 02:07:18,040
But it would be a little 
interesting when the Golden 

2214
02:07:18,040 --> 02:07:21,280
Company was founded, which is 
only three years after Ashford. 

2215
02:07:21,280 --> 02:07:24,800
So you could imagine, well, 
you've got a Targaryen. 

2216
02:07:24,800 --> 02:07:27,920
He's on the opposite side of the
Black Fires. 

2217
02:07:28,160 --> 02:07:33,560
He wasn't in the first Blackfyre
Rebellion, but he's make our 

2218
02:07:33,560 --> 02:07:34,920
son. 
So. 

2219
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:37,480
Oh, this is a little tricky, 
isn't it? 

2220
02:07:37,480 --> 02:07:40,480
What do we think about the 
scenario of him still being in 

2221
02:07:40,480 --> 02:07:43,440
exile when the Golden Company 
was formed? 

2222
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:45,680
What do we think the. 
I mean. 

2223
02:07:46,160 --> 02:07:49,520
That all means fast. 
It's, it's a fascinating 

2224
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:52,200
situation that we don't have 
details about, but I, I 

2225
02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:56,880
certainly love speculating about
because Aryan is really on the 

2226
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:58,320
front lines. 
And I mean that in the full 

2227
02:07:58,320 --> 02:08:01,200
sense of the term when the 
Golden Company is being formed. 

2228
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:04,320
No, he's not there for the 
forming of the Golden Company 

2229
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:09,520
for obvious reasons, but he's 
still very much in a place where

2230
02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:12,120
that would have been current 
event news. 

2231
02:08:12,240 --> 02:08:15,040
People would have been talking 
about this, especially because 

2232
02:08:15,640 --> 02:08:17,680
Bittersteel had been in the 
Second Sons. 

2233
02:08:17,880 --> 02:08:21,400
So even if they didn't serve 
together, and I don't know if 

2234
02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:25,680
they overlapped or not, it's 
very possible that Aryan was 

2235
02:08:25,680 --> 02:08:29,880
serving alongside people who 
knew Bittersteel directly, who 

2236
02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:34,280
had served with him, who could 
tell very recent anecdotes about

2237
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:36,520
Bittersteel. 
And so now to hear that 

2238
02:08:36,520 --> 02:08:41,600
Bittersteel is forming his own 
sell sword company expressly for

2239
02:08:41,600 --> 02:08:46,440
the purpose of sitting a black 
fire on the Iron Throne, that's 

2240
02:08:46,440 --> 02:08:50,000
going to be very intriguing news
to someone like Aryan. 

2241
02:08:50,720 --> 02:08:52,600
Absolutely. 
I totally agree with that. 

2242
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:55,320
I really hope we get more 
clarity on that situation 

2243
02:08:55,320 --> 02:08:57,120
because it seems like it could 
be very interesting. 

2244
02:08:57,120 --> 02:08:58,520
A lot of different potential 
there. 

2245
02:08:58,640 --> 02:09:02,080
But overall George does say 
Aryan is laying the lease for a 

2246
02:09:02,080 --> 02:09:05,440
few years. 
So what do we know and what's 

2247
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:08,800
the extent of that? 
And what does it mean in terms 

2248
02:09:08,800 --> 02:09:10,680
of a few years? 
What does that mean in terms of 

2249
02:09:10,680 --> 02:09:12,480
the timeline of his return and 
all that? 

2250
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:15,520
We hear about Aryan still being 
in lease. 

2251
02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:19,160
According to Egg in the Sworn 
Sword, Dong thinks that Aryan is

2252
02:09:19,160 --> 02:09:23,040
still in exile in the Mystery 
Night, so he's definitely still 

2253
02:09:23,040 --> 02:09:27,600
there within about two to three 
years after the events of the 

2254
02:09:27,600 --> 02:09:31,040
Hedge Night. 
But we do know that Aryan 

2255
02:09:31,440 --> 02:09:34,400
obviously comes back before the 
3rd Blackfyre Rebellion, which 

2256
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:39,200
happens in 219. 
In my mind, I think Aryan 

2257
02:09:39,200 --> 02:09:45,040
probably came back round about 
maybe the mid to 10s, that that 

2258
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:46,760
would be kind of a timeline that
makes sense. 

2259
02:09:47,240 --> 02:09:49,760
It's possible. 
And this may have even been the 

2260
02:09:49,760 --> 02:09:53,880
official reason or the stated 
reason that Aryan returned 

2261
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,200
because his uncle Regal died in 
215. 

2262
02:09:57,400 --> 02:10:03,000
So maybe by 2:15, it's been 
around about six years since the

2263
02:10:03,000 --> 02:10:05,760
attorney of Ashford make or may 
have thought, all right, 

2264
02:10:06,360 --> 02:10:09,440
Marion's learned his lesson. 
He's gotten the wildness out. 

2265
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:13,000
So make our things. 
Now we've got this major event 

2266
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:17,640
happening in the dynasty where 
my brother is dead, another 

2267
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:20,200
dynast is dead. 
We should probably just bring 

2268
02:10:20,200 --> 02:10:23,560
Aryan home, not just for the 
funeral, but to stay that this 

2269
02:10:23,560 --> 02:10:25,880
is our excuse of, OK, you can 
now come home. 

2270
02:10:26,560 --> 02:10:30,520
But I think, and this isn't 
mutually exclusive, I think the 

2271
02:10:30,520 --> 02:10:34,080
reason or one of the reasons 
that Aryan came home is 

2272
02:10:34,080 --> 02:10:37,240
specifically because the Golden 
Company was being formed and was

2273
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:41,080
and was coming up. 
Because almost, or I should say,

2274
02:10:41,080 --> 02:10:44,360
very soon after the Golden 
Company is formed, that's it 

2275
02:10:44,520 --> 02:10:46,200
takes part in the sack of 
cohort. 

2276
02:10:46,560 --> 02:10:50,480
That's in the very clear message
not just to the rest of the free

2277
02:10:50,480 --> 02:10:53,280
companies and Essos, but also to
the Iron Throne. 

2278
02:10:53,800 --> 02:10:56,760
The black fires are here. 
Bitter steel is saying we're not

2279
02:10:56,760 --> 02:11:00,040
scattered to the four winds. 
We're not just going to die 

2280
02:11:00,040 --> 02:11:01,520
alone and penniless. 
An exile. 

2281
02:11:01,520 --> 02:11:05,040
No, no, no, we are active, we 
are organized. 

2282
02:11:05,160 --> 02:11:08,480
We've got an army and a very 
well trained army. 

2283
02:11:08,800 --> 02:11:11,800
We are ready to take back the 
Iron Throne. 

2284
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:13,960
Certainly from a military 
perspective. 

2285
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:18,840
And if Aryan is abroad serving 
as just sort of a common cell 

2286
02:11:18,840 --> 02:11:22,960
sword with the second sons, 
Makar and the Crown generally 

2287
02:11:22,960 --> 02:11:27,240
may have been thinking, oh, this
is this is a dangerous situation

2288
02:11:27,240 --> 02:11:29,880
that we didn't consider when we 
sent him into exile because the 

2289
02:11:30,080 --> 02:11:34,320
Golden Company didn't exist. 
Because all we need is the 

2290
02:11:34,320 --> 02:11:37,800
second sons to go up against the
Golden Company and they find out

2291
02:11:37,800 --> 02:11:40,920
Aryan is here and they take him 
as a hostage. 

2292
02:11:41,720 --> 02:11:45,120
We we don't need the political 
fallout of that. 

2293
02:11:45,120 --> 02:11:48,120
We need to just bring him home 
and out of that danger. 

2294
02:11:48,560 --> 02:11:53,760
And you know, after the the 
White Wall tourney in 212, this 

2295
02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:57,400
may have seemed especially 
problematic because the crown 

2296
02:11:57,400 --> 02:12:02,080
literally has the would be 
blackfire pretender Damon the 

2297
02:12:02,080 --> 02:12:06,320
younger imprisoned. 
So how terrible would it be for 

2298
02:12:06,320 --> 02:12:09,920
the Targaryens if all of a 
sudden they hear news that 

2299
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:15,280
bitter steel has imprisoned the 
King's nephew and is saying, oh,

2300
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:17,600
we'll trade him back to you. 
If we could have Damon the 

2301
02:12:17,600 --> 02:12:20,080
younger back. 
No, no, no, no, we don't. 

2302
02:12:20,080 --> 02:12:21,720
We don't want to hear about that
situation. 

2303
02:12:22,120 --> 02:12:25,200
So I think that make our may 
have just thought and you know, 

2304
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:27,560
the crown generally may have 
thought, you know what? 

2305
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:33,200
We don't really need Aryan 
abroad in a era that is, or in 

2306
02:12:33,200 --> 02:12:36,800
an area and with a rising golden
company. 

2307
02:12:37,160 --> 02:12:39,600
Let's just bring him home and 
let's avoid that entirely. 

2308
02:12:40,200 --> 02:12:42,120
I agree, I think that's a very 
likely scenario. 

2309
02:12:42,120 --> 02:12:45,600
It certainly would have been a 
huge consideration, unless the 

2310
02:12:46,040 --> 02:12:48,520
timeline is a bit different than
we think now. 

2311
02:12:48,520 --> 02:12:53,600
Given Aryan's first appearance 
involves him asking for a pretty

2312
02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:56,760
wench, it's not unlikely he 
fathered children at some point.

2313
02:12:56,760 --> 02:12:59,640
Maybe he was sterile. 
That would of course eliminate 

2314
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:03,720
that, but it's hard to ignore. 
Giving Targaryen blood seems to 

2315
02:13:03,720 --> 02:13:08,120
matter sometimes, or often, but 
it's probably too many 

2316
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:11,680
generations back to be too 
significant, though I don't 

2317
02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:12,880
know. 
What do we think about that? 

2318
02:13:13,240 --> 02:13:16,160
In my mind, I'm not saying it it
it couldn't be a thing. 

2319
02:13:16,160 --> 02:13:18,400
I'm not saying that it's 
absolutely, positively, 

2320
02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:22,280
definitely not a thing. 
But I think Jorge Martin's own 

2321
02:13:22,280 --> 02:13:27,000
words are probably the most 
significant to me here when he's

2322
02:13:27,000 --> 02:13:30,520
asked directly, you know, about 
Aryan, having children, leaves, 

2323
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:32,840
his attitude is what I would 
call dismissive. 

2324
02:13:32,920 --> 02:13:36,480
He's like, yeah, I mean, maybe, 
sure, but it's all really 

2325
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:39,520
matter. 
So if that's his attitude, 

2326
02:13:39,520 --> 02:13:43,920
answering the question, I feel 
like he would be a little keep 

2327
02:13:43,920 --> 02:13:46,080
is the wrong word. 
But something along those lines 

2328
02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:47,760
to say ha, ha, ha. 
Got you. 

2329
02:13:47,760 --> 02:13:49,920
Actually, they mattered 
completely, and they were 

2330
02:13:49,920 --> 02:13:52,680
critical to the end game of A 
Song of Ice and Fire I. 

2331
02:13:53,440 --> 02:13:55,560
Is it possible that Aryan Father
Children leaves? 

2332
02:13:55,720 --> 02:13:57,960
Sure. 
Do I think that we're 

2333
02:13:57,960 --> 02:13:59,440
realistically going to hear 
about them? 

2334
02:13:59,920 --> 02:14:03,160
Probably not. 
Yeah, I wouldn't think they're 

2335
02:14:03,480 --> 02:14:05,520
important enough. 
They haven't been mentioned in A

2336
02:14:05,520 --> 02:14:08,080
Song of Ice and Fire that 
there's a the so-called bright 

2337
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:11,640
fire theory which claims Young 
Griff is of dual Aryan bright 

2338
02:14:11,640 --> 02:14:15,040
flame and Damon Blackfyre origin
or other such variations. 

2339
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:17,200
There's other flavors of this 
theory. 

2340
02:14:17,200 --> 02:14:20,360
They're not all that direct. 
They're certainly part of his 

2341
02:14:20,360 --> 02:14:23,600
legacy within the fandom. 
Whether or not there's anything 

2342
02:14:23,600 --> 02:14:26,120
to come from them in the story, 
we'll have to wait and see. 

2343
02:14:26,320 --> 02:14:29,400
There's discussions of them both
on this podcast and elsewhere 

2344
02:14:29,400 --> 02:14:31,640
the fandom, but we don't have 
time to get into them here. 

2345
02:14:31,640 --> 02:14:35,400
But they certainly exist, and 
that's a part of Aryan Story. 

2346
02:14:37,920 --> 02:14:41,640
Return to Westeros. 
He came back at least before 

2347
02:14:41,640 --> 02:14:45,040
219. 
We had several ideas of when 

2348
02:14:45,040 --> 02:14:47,960
that might have been, but it's 
definitely before. 219 brings up

2349
02:14:47,960 --> 02:14:51,160
a series of questions related to
the deaths of his kin, which 

2350
02:14:51,160 --> 02:14:54,560
changed the succession. 
Was he back in time to see his 

2351
02:14:54,560 --> 02:14:57,040
Uncle Rhaegal choked to death in
a lamprey pie? 

2352
02:14:57,040 --> 02:15:00,200
Was he there? 
Or did he hear about more 

2353
02:15:00,200 --> 02:15:02,680
directly a Laura dying at the 
hands of a Laura? 

2354
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:05,960
Was he at the masked ball where 
the rat, the hawk and the pig 

2355
02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:09,040
attacked a Laura? 
There's a lot of things that 

2356
02:15:09,040 --> 02:15:13,040
happened in the family during 
this time that may or may not 

2357
02:15:13,280 --> 02:15:16,000
have been something he 
witnessed. 

2358
02:15:16,000 --> 02:15:17,160
Certainly would have been 
affected. 

2359
02:15:17,160 --> 02:15:20,080
Affected him though because the 
Targaryen dynasty, the 

2360
02:15:20,080 --> 02:15:22,720
succession was moving around a 
lot. 

2361
02:15:23,080 --> 02:15:25,600
Aryan had been the second son of
a fourth son. 

2362
02:15:25,600 --> 02:15:28,640
By the latter half of King 
Aries's reign. 

2363
02:15:28,840 --> 02:15:31,480
He was way higher in the line of
succession. 

2364
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:35,280
Only his own father and elder 
brother remained as male heirs 

2365
02:15:35,280 --> 02:15:38,400
ahead of him. 
After the combined events that 

2366
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:42,280
we just listed, plus the Great 
Spring Sickness, it's started to

2367
02:15:42,280 --> 02:15:45,840
become not so unlikely that 
Aryan might inherit, which would

2368
02:15:45,840 --> 02:15:49,000
really not just change his 
outlook personally, but the 

2369
02:15:49,000 --> 02:15:51,360
realms. 
Not in a very good way. 

2370
02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:56,360
On top of all this though, Aryan
would have been aware of, and 

2371
02:15:56,360 --> 02:15:59,960
maybe in ways that other people 
weren't, about the Black Fire 

2372
02:15:59,960 --> 02:16:02,160
threat. 
He could have seen things up 

2373
02:16:02,160 --> 02:16:05,440
close and personal, as we 
alluded to in those years he was

2374
02:16:05,440 --> 02:16:10,480
in exile, so the insurance and 
outs of that might have appeared

2375
02:16:10,480 --> 02:16:12,880
different to him, I guess. 
Is it fair to say that way? 

2376
02:16:12,880 --> 02:16:17,320
What do we think about this 
setup for what's to come later 

2377
02:16:17,320 --> 02:16:19,680
in terms of the succession and 
all these big changes in the 

2378
02:16:19,680 --> 02:16:21,280
family? 
I think I tend to agree. 

2379
02:16:21,280 --> 02:16:27,200
I mean, this is a decade that is
very, very important for Aryan 

2380
02:16:27,200 --> 02:16:32,200
in terms of his dynastic future,
because when he leaves Westeros,

2381
02:16:32,200 --> 02:16:36,040
yes, Baylor has just died, but 
fundamentally, his role really 

2382
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:39,200
hasn't changed as a dynast 
within House Targaryen. 

2383
02:16:39,200 --> 02:16:43,120
No one thinks at the end of the 
tourney of Ashford that Aryan is

2384
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:47,600
going to be king someday. 
But when he's coming back, and 

2385
02:16:47,600 --> 02:16:50,719
as this decade is continuing, 
now all of a sudden you've got 

2386
02:16:51,160 --> 02:16:54,480
not just Baylor dead, but also 
Valar Mataris are dead, and King

2387
02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:57,840
Aaron the Second is dead. 
And now Regal is dead, and now a

2388
02:16:57,840 --> 02:17:02,040
Laura is dead, and now a Laura 
is dying at some point, and he's

2389
02:17:02,040 --> 02:17:03,920
moving up and up and up and up 
and up. 

2390
02:17:04,400 --> 02:17:08,480
Suddenly it doesn't seem so 
unlikely that he may be in line 

2391
02:17:08,480 --> 02:17:11,639
for the throne, that he may not 
be so far from the throne as as 

2392
02:17:11,639 --> 02:17:15,799
he once thought. 
And at the same time he was on 

2393
02:17:15,799 --> 02:17:19,520
the front lines in Essos. 
He would almost certainly have 

2394
02:17:19,520 --> 02:17:22,639
heard about the Golden Company 
forming with this intent to see 

2395
02:17:22,639 --> 02:17:26,000
a black fire on the Iron Throne.
So it's this real sense of, on 

2396
02:17:26,000 --> 02:17:29,719
the one hand, I'm moving up and 
up and up and up and up to 

2397
02:17:29,959 --> 02:17:34,000
potentially be king someday. 
And yet if the black fires 

2398
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:37,280
invade, it's gone. 
I'm dead physically and and 

2399
02:17:37,280 --> 02:17:41,160
dynastically. 
So I think Aryan is perhaps even

2400
02:17:41,160 --> 02:17:45,200
more rooted in this idea of I 
can't let the black fires take 

2401
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:47,440
over. 
I have to really respond to them

2402
02:17:47,440 --> 02:17:50,160
because now I have, I have 
stakes in this. 

2403
02:17:50,160 --> 02:17:56,520
I really couldn't become king. 
The third Black Fire Rebellion 

2404
02:17:57,000 --> 02:18:01,959
In 219 AC, Hagon, Blackfyre and 
Bitter Steel launched the third 

2405
02:18:01,959 --> 02:18:04,280
Blackfyre Rebellion. 
They invaded Westeros, they had 

2406
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:06,040
the Golden Company, they had 
allies. 

2407
02:18:06,440 --> 02:18:10,799
While Aries was still king, he 
was certainly no warrior, and it

2408
02:18:10,799 --> 02:18:14,840
was Prince Makar who led the 
Westerosi response. 

2409
02:18:15,200 --> 02:18:18,799
Aryan fought with his father, 
not with his father alongside 

2410
02:18:18,799 --> 02:18:22,160
his father, we should say. 
He didn't turn traitor suddenly 

2411
02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:24,160
there. 
So we don't know a lot about the

2412
02:18:24,160 --> 02:18:27,240
third Black Fire Rebellion. 
There's some crucial details, 

2413
02:18:27,240 --> 02:18:31,280
though, that we can work around,
and there's some things that 

2414
02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:34,280
really seem to include Aryan, or
at least he's a big candidate to

2415
02:18:34,280 --> 02:18:37,920
be involved in. 
Let's specifically first the war

2416
02:18:37,920 --> 02:18:39,480
itself. 
What do we know about that? 

2417
02:18:39,879 --> 02:18:41,760
He's specifically name dropped, 
isn't he? 

2418
02:18:42,120 --> 02:18:46,240
He is, and it's unfortunate for 
us as readers that Gergel Martin

2419
02:18:46,240 --> 02:18:48,760
VA Yandel pulls the trick of you
know what? 

2420
02:18:48,760 --> 02:18:51,240
We know so much about this war 
that we don't even have to tell 

2421
02:18:51,240 --> 02:18:54,080
the story because we all already
know the story, clearly saving 

2422
02:18:54,080 --> 02:18:57,320
the story for later. 
But I think what is very 

2423
02:18:57,320 --> 02:18:59,879
intriguing in The World of Ice 
and Fire is that Yandel 

2424
02:19:00,040 --> 02:19:04,400
specifically describes this war 
by citing the leadership of 

2425
02:19:04,400 --> 02:19:08,920
Makar, the actions of Aryan 
Bright Flame, and the courage of

2426
02:19:08,920 --> 02:19:13,000
Makar's youngest son. 
No, actions on its own doesn't 

2427
02:19:13,000 --> 02:19:15,160
have a negative or positive 
connotation. 

2428
02:19:15,160 --> 02:19:18,400
You can use it in in any way to 
just describe what someone is 

2429
02:19:18,400 --> 02:19:22,520
doing. 
But when you put actions in 

2430
02:19:22,520 --> 02:19:27,360
between courage and leadership, 
which both have positive 

2431
02:19:27,360 --> 02:19:32,280
connotations, I think the clear 
implication is that the actions 

2432
02:19:32,559 --> 02:19:35,200
were something negative. 
This is not the leadership of 

2433
02:19:35,200 --> 02:19:37,480
Aryan. 
This is not the bravery of Aryan

2434
02:19:37,480 --> 02:19:40,520
or the courage of Aryan. 
It's not the valor of Aryan, 

2435
02:19:41,160 --> 02:19:45,320
this is the actions of Aryan. 
This is something that is not 

2436
02:19:45,320 --> 02:19:48,040
well remembered, I think, in the
history of Westeros. 

2437
02:19:48,600 --> 02:19:50,600
Absolutely agree with that 
interpretation. 

2438
02:19:50,600 --> 02:19:54,160
It's very telling of use of 
specific words there. 

2439
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:59,920
And I think that I mean by the 
same logic that we assume Aryan 

2440
02:19:59,920 --> 02:20:04,000
was acting out some of his worst
impulses within the context of a

2441
02:20:04,000 --> 02:20:08,040
sell sort company. 
I assume that in war, especially

2442
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:11,680
against a hated foe, a. 
Threat that could overthrow his 

2443
02:20:11,680 --> 02:20:16,760
entire family. 
He would do his worst, and those

2444
02:20:16,760 --> 02:20:19,120
are likely to be the sort of 
actions we're talking about. 

2445
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:21,720
We also know how the war ended 
somewhat. 

2446
02:20:21,720 --> 02:20:25,320
Not what led to it ending, but 
some details about the immediate

2447
02:20:25,320 --> 02:20:27,400
aftermath. 
We have a suspicion there as 

2448
02:20:27,400 --> 02:20:29,960
well, don't we? 
Maybe an even darker suspicion, 

2449
02:20:29,960 --> 02:20:33,160
at least in terms of the 
important players in place here.

2450
02:20:33,480 --> 02:20:36,920
Exactly, and I think I don't 
think it's coincidental that 

2451
02:20:37,120 --> 02:20:41,040
just after Yandel mentions the 
actions of Aryan Bright Flame, 

2452
02:20:41,200 --> 02:20:44,440
he also says that Hagon 
Blackfyre was killed after 

2453
02:20:44,440 --> 02:20:49,640
battle slaying treacherously 
after he had given up his sword.

2454
02:20:49,960 --> 02:20:54,760
Obviously Hagon is only going to
surrender his sword to a leader 

2455
02:20:54,760 --> 02:20:57,960
on the other side on the 
Targaryen loyalist side. 

2456
02:20:58,440 --> 02:21:03,200
So if we're putting together 
Aryan committed actions that are

2457
02:21:03,200 --> 02:21:07,160
not presumably well remembered 
in the history of Westeros, and 

2458
02:21:07,160 --> 02:21:11,760
also Hagen surrendered 
presumably to the Targaryens and

2459
02:21:11,760 --> 02:21:16,040
then was slain treacherously, I 
don't think it's a large leap of

2460
02:21:16,040 --> 02:21:20,560
logic to suggest it was Aryan 
who slayed Hagen treacherously 

2461
02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:22,920
after he had given up his sword.
Why? 

2462
02:21:23,280 --> 02:21:26,240
Because this is what we see 
Aryan do. 

2463
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:32,240
Aryan consistently bypasses 
rules or laws or conventions in 

2464
02:21:32,240 --> 02:21:37,520
the name of his own cruelty. 
Aryan consistently kicks people 

2465
02:21:37,520 --> 02:21:41,760
while they're down. 
Aryan hurts people and looks to 

2466
02:21:41,760 --> 02:21:45,280
hurt people. 
And Aryan is very much someone 

2467
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:48,840
who believes in his own ego, 
believes in his own arrogance, 

2468
02:21:48,840 --> 02:21:50,520
believes in his own place in the
universe. 

2469
02:21:50,880 --> 02:21:55,000
If he's confronted with the 
would be Black Fire King who's 

2470
02:21:55,000 --> 02:21:57,760
claiming the Iron Throne. 
I don't think it's a large 

2471
02:21:57,760 --> 02:22:01,280
people logic at all to think 
that Aryan reacted very 

2472
02:22:01,280 --> 02:22:04,840
violently, very cruelly, and 
killed him after he surrendered.

2473
02:22:05,520 --> 02:22:10,840
And just like we saw, he has a 
rather maybe it wasn't so fully 

2474
02:22:10,840 --> 02:22:12,960
formed at Ashford. 
He has a sense of what he can 

2475
02:22:12,960 --> 02:22:15,200
get away with. 
He was pretty good at playing 

2476
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:18,120
his father, not so good at 
playing the crowd at Ashford and

2477
02:22:18,120 --> 02:22:21,080
the nobles there. 
But in terms of knowing what he 

2478
02:22:21,080 --> 02:22:25,480
can get away with here, I mean, 
there's enough missing details 

2479
02:22:25,480 --> 02:22:28,280
here that we can't be sure that 
whoever did this was was 

2480
02:22:28,280 --> 02:22:30,360
unpunished. 
But if it was Aryan, we can be 

2481
02:22:30,360 --> 02:22:32,680
pretty sure there would have 
been very little punishment. 

2482
02:22:33,320 --> 02:22:36,000
I don't think that it's unlikely
at all. 

2483
02:22:36,000 --> 02:22:40,200
So this seems like our top 
scenario for this, But it 

2484
02:22:40,200 --> 02:22:42,760
doesn't stop here. 
There wasn't just his potential 

2485
02:22:42,760 --> 02:22:45,480
actions. 
There's his suggestions, which 

2486
02:22:45,720 --> 02:22:48,560
push some of these ideas even 
further into the territory of 

2487
02:22:48,560 --> 02:22:50,960
likelihood, because they're all 
very consistent. 

2488
02:22:51,440 --> 02:22:55,280
Now let's talk about that. 
What did he have to say about, 

2489
02:22:55,880 --> 02:23:00,880
for example, Bittersteel? 
Well, Yandel mentions that after

2490
02:23:00,880 --> 02:23:02,680
Bittersteel, so Bittersteel is 
captured. 

2491
02:23:02,680 --> 02:23:05,200
He's not sleeping treacherously 
after he gives up his sword, 

2492
02:23:05,520 --> 02:23:07,720
he's captured alive. 
He's taken to the Red Keeping 

2493
02:23:07,760 --> 02:23:11,920
chains. 
Bloodraven and Aryan both think 

2494
02:23:11,920 --> 02:23:14,920
that Bittersteel should be put 
to death now. 

2495
02:23:15,040 --> 02:23:17,440
I mean, not really surprising 
for Bloodraven. 

2496
02:23:17,440 --> 02:23:20,880
There's absolutely no love lost 
between him and Bittersteel. 

2497
02:23:21,360 --> 02:23:23,920
And I don't think it's 
particularly surprising that 

2498
02:23:23,920 --> 02:23:27,760
Aryan would be against Bitter 
Steel too, because the same 

2499
02:23:27,760 --> 02:23:32,280
reasons that Aryan that might 
have made Aryan want to kill 

2500
02:23:32,280 --> 02:23:35,080
Hagen treacherously on 
battlefield made him want to see

2501
02:23:35,080 --> 02:23:38,120
Bitter Steel dead. 
Bitter Steel had tried to make 

2502
02:23:38,480 --> 02:23:43,400
the dragon lose, and the dragon 
obviously can't lose in Bitter 

2503
02:23:43,400 --> 02:23:47,200
in Aryan's mind. 
So Aryan has to punish him, has 

2504
02:23:47,200 --> 02:23:50,400
to show no, no, no. 
You think that you can topple 

2505
02:23:50,440 --> 02:23:52,480
our dynasty? 
You think you can topple my 

2506
02:23:52,480 --> 02:23:55,600
place in the succession? 
I'm going to make sure you never

2507
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:58,600
try that again by calling for 
your execution. 

2508
02:23:58,640 --> 02:24:02,240
You know, the comparison here, I
think, is maybe someone like a 

2509
02:24:02,240 --> 02:24:06,600
Roose Bolton after the battle 
was tried and Roose Bolton says 

2510
02:24:06,600 --> 02:24:08,920
that Barris and Selmy should be 
put to death. 

2511
02:24:09,280 --> 02:24:13,880
Now, Roose is an evil person who
also likes cruelty and pain. 

2512
02:24:14,280 --> 02:24:17,680
But I think that ruse in that in
addition to liking cruelty and 

2513
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:21,760
pain, was also thinking 
Barristan fought for the 

2514
02:24:21,760 --> 02:24:23,600
Targaryens. 
Barristan was loyal to the 

2515
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:25,760
Targaryens. 
Barristan should die for that 

2516
02:24:25,760 --> 02:24:27,960
loyalty. 
Yeah, and you can't count on him

2517
02:24:27,960 --> 02:24:29,480
to switch sides. 
You wouldn't be able to from 

2518
02:24:29,480 --> 02:24:31,600
Ruse's point of view anyway. 
You wouldn't be able to count on

2519
02:24:31,600 --> 02:24:35,600
him on your side of that turns 
out to be wrong mostly, but you 

2520
02:24:35,600 --> 02:24:38,400
can kind of see where he's 
coming from, especially given 

2521
02:24:38,400 --> 02:24:40,360
who he is. 
Is it interesting? 

2522
02:24:40,360 --> 02:24:42,960
What if, if Aryan and Blood 
Raven's advice had been taken, 

2523
02:24:42,960 --> 02:24:47,880
would the Black Fire cause had 
been so decapitated, quite 

2524
02:24:47,880 --> 02:24:50,560
literally, that they wouldn't 
have been able to continue? 

2525
02:24:50,880 --> 02:24:54,360
Is it possible that Damon the 
Third's fourth Black Fire 

2526
02:24:54,360 --> 02:24:56,160
rebellion wouldn't have happened
at all? 

2527
02:24:56,240 --> 02:24:59,680
Well, it wasn't exactly very 
effective, so maybe it's a moot 

2528
02:24:59,680 --> 02:25:03,160
point, but it's certainly 
curiosity. 

2529
02:25:03,160 --> 02:25:05,320
I wonder what would have 
happened. 

2530
02:25:05,320 --> 02:25:07,320
It would have just been 
different leadership entirely, 

2531
02:25:07,320 --> 02:25:09,720
and with someone other than 
bitter steel in place, it's 

2532
02:25:09,960 --> 02:25:12,000
really hard to predict what 
would have happened there. 

2533
02:25:12,320 --> 02:25:15,600
Agreed, I think that bitter 
steel is is crucial to the 

2534
02:25:15,600 --> 02:25:18,640
leadership of the of the Black 
Fire cause in the aftermath of 

2535
02:25:18,640 --> 02:25:21,080
the first Black Fire rebellion. 
But the last Black fire 

2536
02:25:21,080 --> 02:25:23,440
rebellion in the War of the 9 
Penny Kings happens long after 

2537
02:25:23,440 --> 02:25:25,680
he's dead. 
So there's a certain extent to 

2538
02:25:25,680 --> 02:25:28,320
which this is a self 
perpetuating machine, so to 

2539
02:25:28,320 --> 02:25:34,080
speak, after after he dies. 
Later life and death. 

2540
02:25:34,480 --> 02:25:38,600
It's unclear what Aryan was 
doing for most of Makar's reign.

2541
02:25:38,840 --> 02:25:43,680
Makar's reign was difficult. 
He did at least fight and defeat

2542
02:25:43,680 --> 02:25:45,800
Dagan Greyjoy. 
That might have been during 

2543
02:25:45,800 --> 02:25:48,680
Aries reign, it might have been 
during his own reign, It might 

2544
02:25:48,680 --> 02:25:52,480
have been spanning both because 
Dagan was quite a problem. 

2545
02:25:52,880 --> 02:25:56,320
Do we think Aryan likely fought 
against the Ironborn in this 

2546
02:25:56,320 --> 02:25:59,120
campaign? 
I think that this was clearly a 

2547
02:25:59,120 --> 02:26:01,800
very important campaign because 
this is something that's still 

2548
02:26:01,800 --> 02:26:04,680
remembered among the Ironborn 
today, that they couldn't stand 

2549
02:26:04,680 --> 02:26:07,520
up to the dragon. 
So I think it's possible if 

2550
02:26:07,520 --> 02:26:11,240
this, as long as it happened 
after Aryan returned from exile,

2551
02:26:11,240 --> 02:26:14,920
which I'm not entirely sure of 
the timeline on that, but as 

2552
02:26:14,920 --> 02:26:17,920
long as it did, I think it's 
possible that he did. 

2553
02:26:18,120 --> 02:26:20,880
We don't hear about it, but I 
expect that we'll hear more 

2554
02:26:20,880 --> 02:26:22,880
details on that in the future 
Duncan Egg story. 

2555
02:26:23,440 --> 02:26:25,000
Yeah, I agree. 
I think so too. 

2556
02:26:25,000 --> 02:26:27,280
That's something we can 
speculate about and think it's 

2557
02:26:27,280 --> 02:26:29,000
likely. 
But specific details, Yeah, 

2558
02:26:29,000 --> 02:26:31,680
There's nothing we can get into 
there. 

2559
02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:35,200
Not yet, anyway. 
Makar took the throne in 221 

2560
02:26:35,200 --> 02:26:37,560
after the death of Aries. 
There seems to have been no foul

2561
02:26:37,560 --> 02:26:39,520
play, at least. 
Nothing straightforward, nothing

2562
02:26:39,520 --> 02:26:42,360
obvious. 
And, you know, Makar didn't want

2563
02:26:42,360 --> 02:26:43,840
to be king. 
He didn't love it. 

2564
02:26:43,840 --> 02:26:46,360
He saw it as some sort of a 
punishment. 

2565
02:26:46,360 --> 02:26:50,080
He still punished himself for 
the death of Baylor. 

2566
02:26:50,240 --> 02:26:53,040
You certainly kind of wonder 
what Aryan thought of that, 

2567
02:26:53,040 --> 02:26:55,600
whether he thought his father 
was wasting his time, whether he

2568
02:26:55,600 --> 02:26:58,120
just didn't understand that sort
of grief. 

2569
02:26:58,160 --> 02:27:01,560
Him being sort of a sociopath 
like that might not understand 

2570
02:27:02,280 --> 02:27:04,080
holding on to that sort of 
thing. 

2571
02:27:04,080 --> 02:27:07,680
And just the idea of grief and 
and responsibility over that 

2572
02:27:07,680 --> 02:27:11,600
long period of time just seems 
kind of alien to someone like 

2573
02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:13,960
Aryan. 
But there would have been a lot 

2574
02:27:13,960 --> 02:27:17,560
of changes in the family and in 
his status. 

2575
02:27:17,960 --> 02:27:21,520
And we can speculate at least a 
little bit on what he thought of

2576
02:27:21,520 --> 02:27:24,840
these changes in his family. 
Low the chance of him ever 

2577
02:27:24,840 --> 02:27:30,080
becoming king, even to him, with
this kind of outlook he might 

2578
02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:32,280
have had, would have seen pretty
unlikely. 

2579
02:27:32,280 --> 02:27:33,480
But now, not so much. 
Huh. 

2580
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:37,800
It's interesting to think how 
Aryan saw himself as a Dinos and

2581
02:27:37,800 --> 02:27:41,320
a potential heir. 
In this era of make ours reign, 

2582
02:27:41,320 --> 02:27:45,200
because now once again there's 
only one branch of House 

2583
02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:47,760
Targaryen and there's a few sons
within it. 

2584
02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:51,160
You've got there on who should 
be the heir because he's the 

2585
02:27:51,160 --> 02:27:55,200
eldest, but his only child is a 
simple minded girl. 

2586
02:27:55,200 --> 02:27:58,520
So it's probably unlikely, 
certainly to Aryan and probably 

2587
02:27:58,520 --> 02:28:02,560
to most of Westeros, the idea 
that Viella will ever become 

2588
02:28:02,560 --> 02:28:06,800
queen someday, which would 
theoretically, it's certainly in

2589
02:28:06,800 --> 02:28:09,880
Aryan's mind, leave him Aryan as
the next in line. 

2590
02:28:10,200 --> 02:28:13,520
But then he's also got youngest 
brother Egg, and he's married to

2591
02:28:13,520 --> 02:28:16,000
Beth Blackwood, and he's got 
children of his own. 

2592
02:28:16,400 --> 02:28:20,440
And so, you know, is Aryan 
thinking, how's this all going 

2593
02:28:20,440 --> 02:28:22,360
to come out? 
And how is this all working out,

2594
02:28:22,360 --> 02:28:24,480
especially? 
And we don't really get a sense 

2595
02:28:24,480 --> 02:28:27,800
of this in terms of make ours 
feelings about all of this, you 

2596
02:28:27,800 --> 02:28:32,160
know, is make our favoring Daron
or Aryan or Egg is he have 

2597
02:28:32,160 --> 02:28:34,840
thoughts about all of this? 
How is this all going to shake 

2598
02:28:34,840 --> 02:28:38,080
out once dad dies? 
Who's going to become king next?

2599
02:28:38,280 --> 02:28:41,920
Now Makar's reign is, as we've 
said a few times from a 

2600
02:28:41,920 --> 02:28:45,120
different context, still very. 
Lacking in details, but there 

2601
02:28:45,120 --> 02:28:47,200
clearly were a lot of troubles. 
There were a lot of troubles 

2602
02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:49,200
leading up to it and a lot of 
troubles during it. 

2603
02:28:49,440 --> 02:28:53,160
Let's talk about how those 
directly impacted Aryan, how he 

2604
02:28:53,160 --> 02:28:57,800
might have seen it, for example,
just mixing in all the all the 

2605
02:28:57,800 --> 02:29:01,680
deaths within the family and the
remainder of the black fire 

2606
02:29:01,680 --> 02:29:04,840
threat. 
What about the rest of the 

2607
02:29:05,800 --> 02:29:10,040
succession in terms of what the 
general body of Westeros 

2608
02:29:10,040 --> 02:29:11,720
thought? 
I mean, people could not have 

2609
02:29:11,720 --> 02:29:15,600
been excited about who the King 
and the Hand were and who his 

2610
02:29:15,640 --> 02:29:18,640
heirs were. 
This is just a tough time, 

2611
02:29:18,640 --> 02:29:19,560
right? 
It is. 

2612
02:29:19,560 --> 02:29:23,240
I mean, we don't get a huge 
sense of and it's, it's 

2613
02:29:23,240 --> 02:29:24,800
something that I still find 
confusing. 

2614
02:29:24,800 --> 02:29:28,520
As to what the relationship was 
between Makar and Bloodraven at 

2615
02:29:28,520 --> 02:29:31,760
this point, because they seem to
be pretty antagonistic in the 

2616
02:29:31,800 --> 02:29:34,240
tales of Duncan Egg and then we 
hear about them being Hands. 

2617
02:29:34,240 --> 02:29:37,400
So what happened? 
I don't really understand that. 

2618
02:29:37,400 --> 02:29:39,520
There's clearly something that 
needs to be filled in. 

2619
02:29:40,120 --> 02:29:43,520
But even no matter what role 
Blood Raven was doing at this 

2620
02:29:43,520 --> 02:29:46,760
point, even to have him as part 
of the government was already 

2621
02:29:47,360 --> 02:29:49,960
after the mess that was Eris's 
reign. 

2622
02:29:50,360 --> 02:29:54,040
I can't imagine there was a lot 
of popularity there and, you 

2623
02:29:54,040 --> 02:29:57,520
know, make our I do think that 
there are admirable qualities to

2624
02:29:57,520 --> 02:30:00,560
make our certainly, I don't 
think that he's just a moron or 

2625
02:30:00,560 --> 02:30:02,800
a bruge or just prickly and 
proud. 

2626
02:30:02,800 --> 02:30:06,200
I do think that he was, you 
know, a brave and a stand up 

2627
02:30:06,200 --> 02:30:09,600
commander, but he's certainly 
not someone who's going to be 

2628
02:30:09,680 --> 02:30:11,800
winning a lot of popularity 
contests. 

2629
02:30:11,800 --> 02:30:16,800
I don't think this is someone 
who I think even with all of the

2630
02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:19,640
character changes that I think 
he does go through, I think is 

2631
02:30:19,640 --> 02:30:23,480
still very much a man in the 
Stannis model, a man who is 

2632
02:30:23,800 --> 02:30:29,160
prickly, a man who is duty down,
a man who is respected but maybe

2633
02:30:29,160 --> 02:30:33,080
not particularly loved. 
And on top of that, they car has

2634
02:30:33,080 --> 02:30:36,840
the bad luck that there's some 
some bad environmental 

2635
02:30:36,840 --> 02:30:39,400
situations that are happening. 
So he's got, yes, there is a 

2636
02:30:39,400 --> 02:30:43,000
long summer, that's great, but 
there's also great plague in all

2637
02:30:43,000 --> 02:30:46,200
in Old Town. 
And that's a terrible disease to

2638
02:30:46,200 --> 02:30:48,720
go through. 
And there's not just the effects

2639
02:30:48,720 --> 02:30:51,760
of the disease itself, but also 
the rioting that happens 

2640
02:30:51,760 --> 02:30:53,600
afterward. 
And that's something that Makar 

2641
02:30:53,600 --> 02:30:56,080
has to deal with. 
And oh, by the way, on top of 

2642
02:30:56,080 --> 02:30:58,720
all of that, they're still the 
black fires. 

2643
02:30:58,720 --> 02:31:02,480
They are still out there. 
They still want to invade 

2644
02:31:02,480 --> 02:31:05,560
Westeros and really don't invade
during Makar's reign. 

2645
02:31:05,560 --> 02:31:09,200
But I'm very much of the opinion
that the peak uprising that 

2646
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:13,640
Makar dies in, if not a formal 
black fire rebellion, was 

2647
02:31:13,640 --> 02:31:17,320
something akin to a black fire 
rebellion, Maybe something of 

2648
02:31:17,800 --> 02:31:20,520
kind of like what Oberyn tried 
in the aftermath of Robert's 

2649
02:31:20,520 --> 02:31:22,440
Rebellion. 
Sort of a like, hey, black 

2650
02:31:22,440 --> 02:31:25,160
fires, we're here and we're 
ready to support you just as 

2651
02:31:25,160 --> 02:31:28,720
soon as you want to come back. 
And so they car is dealing with 

2652
02:31:28,720 --> 02:31:30,400
all of this. 
And although we don't have a ton

2653
02:31:30,400 --> 02:31:35,360
of details, I think this is a 
tough era and not one that he 

2654
02:31:35,360 --> 02:31:39,560
needs a particularly problematic
son like Aryan on top of. 

2655
02:31:40,440 --> 02:31:43,120
Yeah, it it just nothing was 
aligned well for him. 

2656
02:31:43,120 --> 02:31:45,360
There was a number of factors 
that just. 

2657
02:31:45,360 --> 02:31:49,080
Made it difficult for Makar. 
It was probably a very tough 

2658
02:31:49,240 --> 02:31:51,720
decade all around. 
Now it's it's weird to think 

2659
02:31:51,720 --> 02:31:54,200
about the succession too, 
because yes, Darren didn't have 

2660
02:31:54,200 --> 02:31:57,160
a son, Aryan didn't have 
children, Egg did. 

2661
02:31:57,160 --> 02:32:02,440
But he was unpopular and like 
it's it's hard to imagine that 

2662
02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:04,920
Was Egg really less popular than
Aryan? 

2663
02:32:04,920 --> 02:32:07,840
Like that's hard to imagine, but
it's definitely possible 'cause 

2664
02:32:08,080 --> 02:32:11,440
maybe some Lords just looked 
past a lot of Aryan's worst 

2665
02:32:11,440 --> 02:32:13,840
qualities. 
They saw him as a hardliner 

2666
02:32:13,840 --> 02:32:16,720
against the black fires. 
They saw him as maybe he had 

2667
02:32:16,800 --> 02:32:19,800
some did some things during 
Makar's reign that redeemed him,

2668
02:32:19,800 --> 02:32:22,080
at least partially. 
I doubt fully, but partially in 

2669
02:32:22,080 --> 02:32:24,560
the eyes of some of the 
nobility, he may have acted out 

2670
02:32:24,560 --> 02:32:28,040
a bit because his father was 
unpopular and he may have taken 

2671
02:32:28,040 --> 02:32:31,240
offense to that, especially if 
he, if it rubbed off on him. 

2672
02:32:31,240 --> 02:32:34,560
He wanted to remind people of 
who they were, right? 

2673
02:32:34,560 --> 02:32:36,760
Like the same kind of business 
he had when he was younger. 

2674
02:32:36,880 --> 02:32:39,760
But the point is that, you know,
these the nobility didn't like 

2675
02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:41,520
any of these people. 
They they didn't really like 

2676
02:32:41,520 --> 02:32:44,320
Makar, they didn't really like 
Blood Raven, they didn't like 

2677
02:32:44,320 --> 02:32:47,840
Deron, they didn't like Aryan, 
and they didn't like Egg. 

2678
02:32:48,120 --> 02:32:52,520
Now we can discuss in greater 
detail why they didn't like some

2679
02:32:52,520 --> 02:32:55,240
of these others, but it's most 
of it's pretty straightforward. 

2680
02:32:55,240 --> 02:32:57,560
And for Aryan, it's also very 
straightforward. 

2681
02:32:58,120 --> 02:33:03,040
But in his case, perhaps more 
uniquely than all of the rest, 

2682
02:33:03,400 --> 02:33:09,520
he may have been getting madder.
His madness was that the most 

2683
02:33:09,520 --> 02:33:12,720
certain to have been present out
of this group, depending on how 

2684
02:33:12,720 --> 02:33:14,360
you frame Darren's dreams, that 
is. 

2685
02:33:14,360 --> 02:33:18,880
But he didn't seem to inflict 
that on other people as often or

2686
02:33:18,880 --> 02:33:21,600
as much. 
So certainly not as openly 

2687
02:33:21,720 --> 02:33:22,640
violent. 
Put it that. 

2688
02:33:22,640 --> 02:33:24,120
Yeah, that's a good way to put 
it. 

2689
02:33:24,120 --> 02:33:27,840
So that's a huge question. 
That we can't answer, but that 

2690
02:33:27,840 --> 02:33:31,200
I'm very. 
Curious about is how how a his 

2691
02:33:31,200 --> 02:33:36,720
encroaching madness manifested 
and how that in turn impacted 

2692
02:33:36,960 --> 02:33:39,800
Makar's reign in terms of the 
succession and people thinking 

2693
02:33:39,800 --> 02:33:41,400
this guy might end up on the 
throne. 

2694
02:33:41,400 --> 02:33:44,280
Like Yikes Yikes Yikes. 
Is this another egg on the 

2695
02:33:44,280 --> 02:33:46,040
unworthy? 
Is this what is, you know, what 

2696
02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:48,600
are we dealing with here? 
Can he still have been fooling 

2697
02:33:48,600 --> 02:33:51,040
his father this deep into it? 
Can it? 

2698
02:33:51,040 --> 02:33:53,800
Did his father really still not 
know what kind of person was he?

2699
02:33:53,800 --> 02:33:58,920
Was he still that dug in on his 
impression of his son over time?

2700
02:33:58,920 --> 02:34:00,520
Like, how could he have hidden 
who he was? 

2701
02:34:00,520 --> 02:34:02,880
I don't know. 
Is this just more scrutiny on 

2702
02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:04,200
him? 
The Kingsguard would be around 

2703
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:06,160
him more often. 
The higher up in the line of 

2704
02:34:06,160 --> 02:34:08,160
succession you are, the more 
people are going to be watching 

2705
02:34:08,160 --> 02:34:10,760
you. 
So maybe he got do you think 

2706
02:34:10,760 --> 02:34:13,320
maybe he's got better at hiding 
who he was? 

2707
02:34:13,320 --> 02:34:15,960
Or maybe this just was a 
constant problem? 

2708
02:34:15,960 --> 02:34:17,120
What's your what's your thoughts
here? 

2709
02:34:17,120 --> 02:34:18,960
It's very it's very difficult to
perceive. 

2710
02:34:19,240 --> 02:34:21,240
It is. 
And I and I do think we'll get a

2711
02:34:21,240 --> 02:34:24,920
lot more of this in future. 
Duncan egg tails I tend to head.

2712
02:34:24,920 --> 02:34:28,320
Cannon, admittedly not with a 
ton of evidence, but it's just 

2713
02:34:28,360 --> 02:34:30,320
what feels right to me 
narratively. 

2714
02:34:30,640 --> 02:34:35,120
I tend to head cannon that as 
make our sons got older and as 

2715
02:34:35,360 --> 02:34:39,520
eventually as Maker became king,
make our began to appreciate Egg

2716
02:34:39,760 --> 02:34:44,600
more of his sons because Egg is 
the one who is the war hero in 

2717
02:34:44,600 --> 02:34:47,400
the third Black Fire rebellion, 
who does have the stable 

2718
02:34:47,400 --> 02:34:51,360
dynastic marriage, who is there 
and is certainly certainly among

2719
02:34:51,360 --> 02:34:53,200
them the most capable of his 
sons. 

2720
02:34:53,280 --> 02:34:57,280
So I think I had cannon that it 
make our appreciated Egg the 

2721
02:34:57,280 --> 02:34:59,360
most in a way. 
Maybe he hadn't when Egg was a 

2722
02:34:59,360 --> 02:35:04,840
young boy, but I don't think 
it's the case that Aryan was 

2723
02:35:05,040 --> 02:35:08,360
fooling his father up until 
Aryan's death. 

2724
02:35:08,360 --> 02:35:11,240
I think Makar would have had to 
be the biggest idiot in the 

2725
02:35:11,240 --> 02:35:15,560
entirety of Westeros to to 
believe that Aryan was still 

2726
02:35:15,920 --> 02:35:18,800
just a cool guy and everybody 
was still cool. 

2727
02:35:18,800 --> 02:35:23,000
What was just lying about him. 
I think the way that I see it, 

2728
02:35:23,000 --> 02:35:25,120
and again, not a lot of 
evidence, but this is what feels

2729
02:35:25,120 --> 02:35:29,640
right to me, is that Makar was 
someone who distrusted Aryan, 

2730
02:35:29,720 --> 02:35:33,800
saw Aryan for what he was, but 
didn't have a better answer. 

2731
02:35:33,800 --> 02:35:37,120
Because to your point, what do 
you do when all the options are 

2732
02:35:37,120 --> 02:35:39,560
bad? 
You know, he's got his oldest 

2733
02:35:39,560 --> 02:35:43,720
son who presumably dies at some 
point between the two 20s, early

2734
02:35:43,720 --> 02:35:47,480
two 30s, and then he's got 
Aryan, and then he's got a well,

2735
02:35:47,960 --> 02:35:50,840
yeah, it might make sense to 
say, oh, egg is the most 

2736
02:35:50,840 --> 02:35:53,080
capable, therefore egg should be
king. 

2737
02:35:53,520 --> 02:35:56,360
But at the same time, make our 
nose, make ours a 

2738
02:35:56,360 --> 02:35:58,440
traditionalist. 
How are you going to promote the

2739
02:35:58,440 --> 02:36:01,000
fourth son above the second? 
Yo, who's going to stand for 

2740
02:36:01,000 --> 02:36:02,640
that? 
Is Aryan going to stand for 

2741
02:36:02,640 --> 02:36:04,840
that? 
So maybe it make ours mind, it's

2742
02:36:04,840 --> 02:36:08,600
less of a question of, oh, I'm 
just an idiot who believes that 

2743
02:36:08,600 --> 02:36:13,040
Aryan's a cool guy, and more of 
a question of I don't trust 

2744
02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:16,400
Aryan. 
I know he's a monster, but maybe

2745
02:36:16,400 --> 02:36:21,000
I can sort of work around this. 
Maybe I don't necessarily trust 

2746
02:36:21,080 --> 02:36:25,480
Aryan, but I can trust Egg to 
take care of Aryan's son. 

2747
02:36:25,560 --> 02:36:28,240
Maybe that maybe that's the 
solution is I come up with 

2748
02:36:28,520 --> 02:36:31,680
someone that I can give the 
throne to kind of bypassing 

2749
02:36:31,720 --> 02:36:35,040
Aryan but still going through 
his mind, and then I can trust 

2750
02:36:35,040 --> 02:36:37,840
Egg to be a nice region for him.
I could see that. 

2751
02:36:37,840 --> 02:36:39,920
Something like that. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

2752
02:36:40,320 --> 02:36:42,920
Now the outlook would have 
changed. 

2753
02:36:42,920 --> 02:36:45,560
At least a little, maybe. 
A lot of the problem is we don't

2754
02:36:45,560 --> 02:36:48,880
know when this happened, but 
Aryan married his cousin Day 

2755
02:36:48,880 --> 02:36:53,320
Nora. 
That may have given some people 

2756
02:36:53,320 --> 02:36:57,000
a worse outlook, thinking this 
may be more establishes him and 

2757
02:36:57,000 --> 02:36:59,920
his descendants, which might be 
a problem like, well, maybe we 

2758
02:36:59,920 --> 02:37:02,080
don't want descendants of Aryan 
on the throne. 

2759
02:37:02,200 --> 02:37:05,160
So Daenora, real quick, some 
facts about her and then a a 

2760
02:37:05,160 --> 02:37:07,280
couple questions. 
Daenora, she was the youngest 

2761
02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:09,080
daughter and youngest child of 
Prince Regal. 

2762
02:37:09,080 --> 02:37:12,640
So that's of course Makar's 
older brother. 

2763
02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:16,560
So this is his niece and that 
therefore it's Aryan's cousin, 

2764
02:37:17,000 --> 02:37:19,680
his first cousin. 
So after the accidental death of

2765
02:37:19,680 --> 02:37:23,800
Prince Alor and the suicide of 
Alora de Nora was the only 

2766
02:37:23,800 --> 02:37:27,520
descendant left of Regal, 
basically the only girl 

2767
02:37:27,520 --> 02:37:31,400
Targaryen that was around in 
this era that was even close to 

2768
02:37:31,760 --> 02:37:33,640
marriageable for Aryan. 
And they weren't really that 

2769
02:37:33,640 --> 02:37:37,120
close in age. 
So unlike both of her siblings, 

2770
02:37:37,640 --> 02:37:41,720
Daenera was never really 
considered the heiress, which, 

2771
02:37:41,760 --> 02:37:45,000
you know, we, we kind of know 
why they think along those 

2772
02:37:45,000 --> 02:37:46,520
lines. 
He was also very young. 

2773
02:37:46,840 --> 02:37:50,000
She wasn't born until at least 
212, maybe 216. 

2774
02:37:50,000 --> 02:37:55,480
So that throws a bit of a 
mystery into the timing here, 

2775
02:37:56,120 --> 02:37:59,320
but but it might also explain 
part of why she was never 

2776
02:37:59,320 --> 02:38:02,800
considered an heir. 
But this marriage might also be 

2777
02:38:02,800 --> 02:38:04,800
a way to address that. 
Well, maybe some people would 

2778
02:38:04,800 --> 02:38:07,280
consider her an heir, and we 
don't want that to become a 

2779
02:38:07,280 --> 02:38:10,280
problem. 
So nip that in the bud. 

2780
02:38:10,800 --> 02:38:13,320
Have two branches of the family 
reunite. 

2781
02:38:14,040 --> 02:38:17,760
Yeah, the problem is who she's 
being united with. 

2782
02:38:18,160 --> 02:38:25,440
And while it's possible this 
child came later, we're guessing

2783
02:38:25,800 --> 02:38:27,520
this marriage was in the late 
two 20s. 

2784
02:38:27,520 --> 02:38:29,440
Or I'm sorry, I should have said
we're guessing this marriage 

2785
02:38:29,440 --> 02:38:33,320
could have been early, but it's 
more likely it came later, like 

2786
02:38:33,320 --> 02:38:36,400
late two 20s or early two 30s. 
Aryan died in 232. 

2787
02:38:36,600 --> 02:38:40,120
Their child was born in 232. 
So it feels like a lot of this 

2788
02:38:40,120 --> 02:38:41,720
could have happened close 
together. 

2789
02:38:42,280 --> 02:38:46,040
Now, you know, why do we think 
this marriage happened at all? 

2790
02:38:46,200 --> 02:38:49,240
I think there's a couple things 
and not mutually exclusive any 

2791
02:38:49,240 --> 02:38:51,200
of these. 
One of them you. 

2792
02:38:51,280 --> 02:38:54,280
You know you, you. 
Point out that de Nora was the 

2793
02:38:54,360 --> 02:38:57,760
youngest child of Regal and 
there was some question as to 

2794
02:38:57,760 --> 02:39:02,560
whether or not a Laura, her 
older sister, was the heiress of

2795
02:39:02,600 --> 02:39:06,000
Uncle Heiress at the end of his 
reign before obviously a a 

2796
02:39:06,000 --> 02:39:08,800
Laura's death. 
But Makar became king, obviously

2797
02:39:08,800 --> 02:39:12,360
bypassing certainly de Nora 
maybe also a Laura as well. 

2798
02:39:12,720 --> 02:39:16,160
So maybe this was sort of part 
of that pact. 

2799
02:39:16,160 --> 02:39:19,440
In other words, making an 
agreement with maybe Riggles, 

2800
02:39:19,440 --> 02:39:23,320
widow Alice, Aaron, maybe sort 
of coming up with an idea with 

2801
02:39:23,320 --> 02:39:26,400
Bloodraven to say we're going to
make sure that Daenora doesn't 

2802
02:39:26,400 --> 02:39:28,480
become queen so I can become 
king. 

2803
02:39:28,840 --> 02:39:31,320
But you know what? 
Let's, let's marry Daenora into 

2804
02:39:31,320 --> 02:39:34,600
the family once she does. 
That way, we're still 

2805
02:39:34,920 --> 02:39:38,320
acknowledging that she has this 
these diagnostic credentials. 

2806
02:39:38,320 --> 02:39:41,080
We're not acknowledging her as 
queen, but we're saying that 

2807
02:39:41,080 --> 02:39:44,400
she's marrying still into the 
ruling branch of the family. 

2808
02:39:44,920 --> 02:39:48,640
It's possible that it's also 
possible that nobody else wanted

2809
02:39:48,640 --> 02:39:52,280
to marry Aryan. 
You know, Aryan is so known for 

2810
02:39:52,280 --> 02:39:55,280
having this horrible reputation,
this cruel and violent and 

2811
02:39:55,280 --> 02:39:59,000
arrogant reputation. 
It's possible that just nobody 

2812
02:39:59,000 --> 02:40:02,520
wanted to marry Aryan and a 
member of the family was the 

2813
02:40:02,520 --> 02:40:05,480
only one who was going to do it 
because she's just also a 

2814
02:40:05,480 --> 02:40:07,840
Targaryen. 
So not not really another 

2815
02:40:07,840 --> 02:40:10,480
option. 
And then it it's also possible 

2816
02:40:10,480 --> 02:40:14,320
that Makar this is what I I was 
mentioning a little bit before 

2817
02:40:14,600 --> 02:40:18,040
Makar felt like he was a bit out
of options and was just trying 

2818
02:40:18,040 --> 02:40:20,320
to make something work for the 
succession. 

2819
02:40:20,800 --> 02:40:25,240
I I do think that Darrell near 
on the drunken died sometime the

2820
02:40:25,280 --> 02:40:28,800
mid to late two 20s, maybe very 
early two 30s. 

2821
02:40:29,080 --> 02:40:32,240
And I think once he did die, 
make our it's got a problem on 

2822
02:40:32,240 --> 02:40:35,840
his hands because now he's got 
no eldest son and he only has a 

2823
02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:38,560
simple minded daughter from him.
Well, no one's going to support 

2824
02:40:38,560 --> 02:40:41,480
bail his claim to the throne. 
So what do I do about the 

2825
02:40:41,480 --> 02:40:43,440
succession? 
If make ours thinking? 

2826
02:40:43,440 --> 02:40:47,480
I don't really love the idea of 
leaving the throne to Aryan, but

2827
02:40:47,480 --> 02:40:50,360
he is now my oldest son. 
What do I do about that? 

2828
02:40:50,800 --> 02:40:55,040
Well, maybe the solution is I 
make a new heir is I marry him 

2829
02:40:55,040 --> 02:40:57,840
to his cousin. 
She's a Targaryen, but she's 

2830
02:40:57,960 --> 02:41:01,640
still a first cousin, so it's 
not completely incestuous in the

2831
02:41:01,640 --> 02:41:03,920
minds of the Faith of the 7th. 
They produce a son. 

2832
02:41:04,160 --> 02:41:06,600
I can make that grandson my 
heir. 

2833
02:41:07,080 --> 02:41:10,760
Aryan doesn't have to be king, 
but I'm still acknowledging that

2834
02:41:10,760 --> 02:41:15,520
it's through his bloodline that 
this that my my line will 

2835
02:41:15,520 --> 02:41:17,800
continue. 
Maybe that sort of make our 

2836
02:41:17,800 --> 02:41:20,760
trying to come up with a 
solution and then it's just also

2837
02:41:20,760 --> 02:41:23,560
possible that Aryan said no, I'm
a Targaryen, so I can only marry

2838
02:41:23,560 --> 02:41:26,640
a Targaryen. 
And if I have no sisters and we 

2839
02:41:26,640 --> 02:41:29,160
know that both of the sisters 
were married and clearly not to 

2840
02:41:29,160 --> 02:41:32,080
Aryan, that Aryan said that I 
want the only available 

2841
02:41:32,080 --> 02:41:35,600
Targaryen that's cousin Negora. 
That makes some sense too, as 

2842
02:41:35,600 --> 02:41:39,440
well as the fact that a a child 
through day Nora with a 

2843
02:41:39,440 --> 02:41:41,120
different. 
Father might have caused some 

2844
02:41:41,120 --> 02:41:43,160
sort of succession crisis 
because a lot of people might 

2845
02:41:43,160 --> 02:41:45,520
have been willing to back 
anything other than Aryan. 

2846
02:41:45,720 --> 02:41:49,680
So Makar's thought might have 
been let's prevent there being 

2847
02:41:49,680 --> 02:41:52,680
another option, which may not 
have been the best thing for the

2848
02:41:52,680 --> 02:41:55,480
realm, but certainly preventing 
civil war is a good thing. 

2849
02:41:55,880 --> 02:42:00,240
Now this child, they had 232 if 
anyone was worried about what 

2850
02:42:00,240 --> 02:42:03,600
kind of man Aryan would be as a 
ruler, and indeed he may have 

2851
02:42:03,600 --> 02:42:07,400
been the heir for several years,
which could have given people a 

2852
02:42:07,400 --> 02:42:10,520
nice long look at what sort of 
ruler he would be as if they 

2853
02:42:10,520 --> 02:42:14,320
didn't have some idea already. 
But the choice of his name, his 

2854
02:42:14,320 --> 02:42:18,680
heir as Magor, if that's the 
name he chose Magor of all 

2855
02:42:18,680 --> 02:42:20,200
things. 
I mean come on, this is part of 

2856
02:42:20,200 --> 02:42:23,040
why we think he was a Magor 
fanboy. 

2857
02:42:23,040 --> 02:42:25,160
The whole trial of seven 
connection and all that. 

2858
02:42:25,440 --> 02:42:30,080
But if your prior scenario that 
you just outlined is accurate 

2859
02:42:30,080 --> 02:42:34,240
that Makar was going to pass 
over Aryan for Aryan's grandson,

2860
02:42:34,240 --> 02:42:36,960
well Aryan just threw a monkey 
wrench in that by naming that 

2861
02:42:36,960 --> 02:42:39,600
kid Magor. 
People wouldn't necessarily want

2862
02:42:39,680 --> 02:42:43,520
to have a a descendant of Aryan 
on the throne. 

2863
02:42:43,640 --> 02:42:46,200
It's hard to forget that it's a 
descendant of Aryan on the 

2864
02:42:46,200 --> 02:42:50,520
throne when you name him Magor. 
So George specifically said in 

2865
02:42:50,520 --> 02:42:54,600
the SSM that he was it 
deliberately being provocative 

2866
02:42:54,840 --> 02:42:57,280
to this, to the realm with this 
choice. 

2867
02:42:57,880 --> 02:42:59,200
Well, who is he provoking 
though? 

2868
02:42:59,200 --> 02:43:02,160
I mean, obviously we can see 
that that would be provocative, 

2869
02:43:02,160 --> 02:43:04,640
but who exactly is he targeting?
Is it the Faith? 

2870
02:43:04,640 --> 02:43:08,360
Is it the nobility? 
Just whoever Is he trolling 

2871
02:43:08,360 --> 02:43:09,880
Westeros as a whole? 
What's up? 

2872
02:43:10,760 --> 02:43:13,840
I think it's everybody. 
I, I think it's just generally 

2873
02:43:13,840 --> 02:43:17,040
everybody because I think. 
You know, we, we've talked a lot

2874
02:43:17,040 --> 02:43:21,440
about Aryan's arrogance, his 
pride, his vanity in what he 

2875
02:43:21,440 --> 02:43:24,960
sees as ultimate Targaryen 
supremacy. 

2876
02:43:25,040 --> 02:43:26,840
No one can challenge a 
Targaryen. 

2877
02:43:26,840 --> 02:43:30,200
The Targaryens are above 
everybody. 

2878
02:43:30,480 --> 02:43:34,520
And so I think if you were 
someone like Aryan, you've got 

2879
02:43:34,520 --> 02:43:37,200
that mindset. 
Maybe you were looking at the 

2880
02:43:37,200 --> 02:43:40,320
reign of Makar. 
It it, it sounds strange to say 

2881
02:43:40,320 --> 02:43:45,160
it, but nostalgically as the 
Acme of Targaryen absolute 

2882
02:43:45,160 --> 02:43:47,400
power. 
You know, we as readers and even

2883
02:43:47,400 --> 02:43:50,280
characters in universe can look 
at Magor's reign and see 

2884
02:43:50,640 --> 02:43:55,480
tyranny, can see violence, can 
see cruelty, can see the mass 

2885
02:43:55,480 --> 02:43:59,160
slaughter of his subjects. 
But when Aryan is looking at 

2886
02:43:59,160 --> 02:44:04,600
Magor's reign, I think what he's
seeing is, ah, Magor didn't have

2887
02:44:04,600 --> 02:44:09,120
to answer to anybody. 
Magor crushed all opposition. 

2888
02:44:09,360 --> 02:44:13,320
Magor didn't take a no from 
anyone. 

2889
02:44:13,480 --> 02:44:16,640
If you challenged House 
Targaryen in Magor's reign, 

2890
02:44:16,920 --> 02:44:20,840
Magor let you know that you were
wrong to do it. 

2891
02:44:21,000 --> 02:44:23,960
And nobody gained said Magor 
about that. 

2892
02:44:24,280 --> 02:44:28,040
So I think that and Aryan is 
really looking back on this 

2893
02:44:28,040 --> 02:44:30,400
reign. 
And again, it sounds so strange 

2894
02:44:30,400 --> 02:44:34,800
to say it, but Aryan is a 
strange character with fondness,

2895
02:44:34,880 --> 02:44:37,840
with nostalgia, kind of in the 
way that I think Dana the 

2896
02:44:37,840 --> 02:44:41,880
Defiant looked back at the era 
of rain, era of her grandmother 

2897
02:44:41,880 --> 02:44:45,040
and her grandfather Damon, why 
she named her son Damon, the 

2898
02:44:45,040 --> 02:44:48,680
future Damon Blackfyre Damon, 
because this is an era that he 

2899
02:44:48,680 --> 02:44:51,200
wanted to live in. 
And in the same way, I think 

2900
02:44:51,720 --> 02:44:55,360
Aryan believes this is the era I
should have lived in. 

2901
02:44:55,400 --> 02:44:59,200
I should have been another major
or the cruel, if you know, kind 

2902
02:44:59,200 --> 02:45:02,080
of, to paraphrase Danny's 
brother or the vision she has of

2903
02:45:02,080 --> 02:45:04,240
her brother. 
If I had a dragon, I would have 

2904
02:45:04,240 --> 02:45:06,720
taught the world the meaning of 
our words. 

2905
02:45:06,880 --> 02:45:10,240
You know, if I were Megor, I 
would have crushed all our 

2906
02:45:10,240 --> 02:45:12,720
opposition. 
But now my son will do that 

2907
02:45:12,720 --> 02:45:16,960
instead. 
The second coming of Megor. 

2908
02:45:16,960 --> 02:45:19,080
He. 
I wonder if Aryans like hey Dad,

2909
02:45:19,080 --> 02:45:21,160
you're going to have to 
reinstate the Faith Militant. 

2910
02:45:21,160 --> 02:45:25,160
So my son can go fight them and 
and do great things. 

2911
02:45:25,640 --> 02:45:28,800
Yeah, that's that's what he was 
thinking, I'm sure. 

2912
02:45:29,360 --> 02:45:32,840
Now, interestingly, though, more
seriously, the the Faith 

2913
02:45:33,160 --> 02:45:36,920
Militant obviously didn't exist 
in that time, but they, the 

2914
02:45:36,920 --> 02:45:40,480
faith non militant, whatever we 
call them, were not likely big 

2915
02:45:40,480 --> 02:45:43,880
fans of Makar certainly would 
have been fans of Aryan. 

2916
02:45:44,360 --> 02:45:47,600
They wouldn't have loved this 
child, especially not his name, 

2917
02:45:47,760 --> 02:45:50,480
and they wouldn't have loved 
that Makar and Bloodraven were 

2918
02:45:50,480 --> 02:45:52,040
running the realm and they were 
both kinslayers. 

2919
02:45:52,040 --> 02:45:55,200
A lot of sort of taboos there in
play. 

2920
02:45:55,440 --> 02:45:58,880
There was a movement towards 
Targaryens who were more 

2921
02:45:58,880 --> 02:46:01,680
accepted by the faith. 
Baylor the blessed primarily 

2922
02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:05,160
dare on the good. 
Baylor breaks beer but we have 

2923
02:46:05,840 --> 02:46:09,200
people like this not so much 
beloved by the faith. 

2924
02:46:09,200 --> 02:46:13,400
Blood Raven, Makar an Aryan 
again who acted like Dragons 

2925
02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:17,440
instead of septons. 
Now this may have been a bit of 

2926
02:46:17,440 --> 02:46:21,000
a push back right? 
The faith likely grew pretty 

2927
02:46:21,000 --> 02:46:24,040
powerful under Baylor and Deron 
because they were giving them 

2928
02:46:24,040 --> 02:46:26,120
benefits and the laws likely 
favored them. 

2929
02:46:26,600 --> 02:46:30,120
I'm not saying Makar would have 
come after them, but he likely 

2930
02:46:30,120 --> 02:46:33,960
didn't give them as much 
allowance either, and the faith 

2931
02:46:33,960 --> 02:46:37,040
wouldn't have loved the idea, 
perhaps most of all, of the idea

2932
02:46:37,040 --> 02:46:41,360
of Aryan getting on the throne. 
That said, I don't think they 

2933
02:46:41,360 --> 02:46:44,480
did anything about it. 
Aryan killed himself drinking 

2934
02:46:44,480 --> 02:46:47,800
wildfire. 
Why the heck would he do that? 

2935
02:46:48,000 --> 02:46:53,040
We certainly hear from Amon that
it was related to dreams. 

2936
02:46:53,040 --> 02:46:58,760
And of course, Aryan was open 
about the fact that he believed 

2937
02:46:58,760 --> 02:47:00,920
drinking wildfire would turn him
into a dragon. 

2938
02:47:00,920 --> 02:47:02,840
So I guess we connect these two 
things. 

2939
02:47:02,840 --> 02:47:06,400
His dreams told him this. 
He believed it, and he was 

2940
02:47:06,400 --> 02:47:09,760
getting progressively madder and
was apparently drinking alcohol 

2941
02:47:09,760 --> 02:47:11,120
that night, too. 
So put all those things 

2942
02:47:11,120 --> 02:47:16,480
together, and I guess he 
believed it was true. 

2943
02:47:16,480 --> 02:47:19,880
I mean, it's it's on one hand 
kind of hard to believe. 

2944
02:47:19,880 --> 02:47:22,680
On the other hand, yeah. 
Yeah, that tracks, right? 

2945
02:47:22,680 --> 02:47:25,080
Where do you fall on this death 
end? 

2946
02:47:26,240 --> 02:47:29,040
Any other details surrounding it
that you want to drop? 

2947
02:47:29,440 --> 02:47:31,960
Well, I I think that. 
What we hear. 

2948
02:47:31,960 --> 02:47:35,440
Consistently every single 
version of the story. 

2949
02:47:35,440 --> 02:47:36,480
Of. 
Aryan's death. 

2950
02:47:37,000 --> 02:47:42,200
Everyone agrees the end goal in 
Aryan's mind was to turn himself

2951
02:47:42,520 --> 02:47:44,880
into a dragon. 
And I know I talked before about

2952
02:47:44,880 --> 02:47:46,920
that being metaphorical, that he
was a dragon. 

2953
02:47:47,360 --> 02:47:51,840
I think he literally believed 
that he would turn into a dragon

2954
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:54,680
if he drank wildfire. 
Now does that sound crazy? 

2955
02:47:54,760 --> 02:47:58,800
Yes, of course it does. 
But I think by the time we're 

2956
02:47:58,800 --> 02:48:04,080
getting to 232 AC, Aryan is now 
in his late 30s ish. 

2957
02:48:04,480 --> 02:48:10,440
I think that Aryan is someone 
who is desperate, who is bitter,

2958
02:48:10,800 --> 02:48:15,680
who has lived his life believing
that he has not been 

2959
02:48:15,680 --> 02:48:20,920
sufficiently adored and 
compensated and valued the way 

2960
02:48:20,920 --> 02:48:24,400
that he thinks a Targaryen, and 
he particularly among the 

2961
02:48:24,400 --> 02:48:29,280
Targaryen, should be. 
And I think that Aryan genuinely

2962
02:48:29,280 --> 02:48:33,600
believed that the Dragons are 
our power. 

2963
02:48:33,880 --> 02:48:36,920
I need to associate myself with 
the Dragons. 

2964
02:48:36,920 --> 02:48:40,160
I need to equate myself 
literally. 

2965
02:48:40,160 --> 02:48:44,360
So I need to equate myself with 
the Dragons. 

2966
02:48:44,600 --> 02:48:49,840
So if I can't get a dragon and I
can't symbolically be a dragon, 

2967
02:48:50,040 --> 02:48:53,800
then I need to turn myself into 
a dragon. 

2968
02:48:54,280 --> 02:48:58,200
And I think it's possible that 
Aryan just kind of, you know, 

2969
02:48:58,240 --> 02:49:02,600
maybe he just grossly 
misinterpreted some sort of 

2970
02:49:02,720 --> 02:49:05,160
supernatural message, some sort 
of prophetic message, some sort 

2971
02:49:05,160 --> 02:49:08,600
of dream he had or someone else 
had, who knows, something that 

2972
02:49:09,240 --> 02:49:13,040
he believed meant he needed to 
consume wildfire. 

2973
02:49:13,240 --> 02:49:17,000
If we want to do a really sort 
of cutesy reading back from what

2974
02:49:17,000 --> 02:49:21,360
we know happened, maybe he 
thinks that, oh, well, it's been

2975
02:49:21,360 --> 02:49:25,880
said that you need to be 
consumed by fire in order to 

2976
02:49:25,880 --> 02:49:29,600
bring back Dragons from fire. 
Therefore, if I am consumed by 

2977
02:49:29,600 --> 02:49:33,640
wildfire, then I will bring back
Dragons via wildfire. 

2978
02:49:34,080 --> 02:49:35,920
I don't know that that's 
actually true, but that's 

2979
02:49:35,920 --> 02:49:38,440
certainly something I could see 
make our, or excuse me, Aryan 

2980
02:49:38,440 --> 02:49:40,960
believing. 
And I think the Aryan is just 

2981
02:49:40,960 --> 02:49:46,000
someone who really wanted it to 
be true, really was desperate to

2982
02:49:46,040 --> 02:49:49,960
have the draconic power that I 
think he thought he always 

2983
02:49:49,960 --> 02:49:54,760
deserved. 
And unfortunately or or rather 

2984
02:49:54,760 --> 02:49:57,440
fortunately for the realm, I 
should say, it didn't turn him 

2985
02:49:57,440 --> 02:49:59,960
into a dragon, as you know more 
about said, it turned him into a

2986
02:49:59,960 --> 02:50:01,600
corpse. 
That's right. 

2987
02:50:01,600 --> 02:50:03,680
I love that line. 
It was a bit of willful 

2988
02:50:03,680 --> 02:50:05,000
delusion. 
I think partly, you know, 

2989
02:50:05,000 --> 02:50:06,120
there's definitely a lot of 
factors. 

2990
02:50:06,120 --> 02:50:08,160
Here, some of which we're not 
currently Privy to. 

2991
02:50:08,400 --> 02:50:11,320
But yeah, I, I do have a little 
bit of a head cannon that maybe 

2992
02:50:11,560 --> 02:50:15,160
because he talked about it so 
much that and had so much 

2993
02:50:16,080 --> 02:50:19,680
implied opposition to the idea 
of him ever becoming king, which

2994
02:50:20,120 --> 02:50:24,200
would have seemed like a not 
unlikely reality that maybe he 

2995
02:50:24,200 --> 02:50:26,600
was encouraged. 
Someone was got this idea. 

2996
02:50:26,600 --> 02:50:28,440
He's like, hey, he thinks 
drinking wildfire will turn him 

2997
02:50:28,440 --> 02:50:30,840
into a dragon. 
Let's let's encourage him in 

2998
02:50:30,840 --> 02:50:33,480
that, make him do it. 
Let's get him to do that 'cause 

2999
02:50:34,040 --> 02:50:35,760
that would be one way to get rid
of him. 

3000
02:50:36,400 --> 02:50:38,160
Yeah, right. 
So, you know, I could see 

3001
02:50:38,160 --> 02:50:40,800
someone like blood Raven seeing 
it that way, perceiving it and 

3002
02:50:40,800 --> 02:50:43,720
getting let's, let's paying some
people or doing it himself. 

3003
02:50:43,720 --> 02:50:46,240
Just, hey, encourage him, get 
him drinking, get him drunk, get

3004
02:50:46,240 --> 02:50:48,480
him talking about the wildfire, 
see what happens. 

3005
02:50:48,800 --> 02:50:53,080
Because there's just so many 
people that didn't want this guy

3006
02:50:53,080 --> 02:50:54,800
to ever be king. 
And it's just, yeah. 

3007
02:50:54,800 --> 02:50:56,640
Was it really? 
Did he really remove himself? 

3008
02:50:56,680 --> 02:50:58,160
Yeah, I mean, he did. 
But they. 

3009
02:50:58,160 --> 02:51:00,280
He may have been, he may have 
been encouraged. 

3010
02:51:03,520 --> 02:51:07,280
Legacy Outro. 
Aryan's name comes up. 

3011
02:51:07,280 --> 02:51:09,240
Quite a few different times in A
Song of Ice and. 

3012
02:51:09,240 --> 02:51:11,600
Fire when the topic of madness 
is broached. 

3013
02:51:11,640 --> 02:51:14,120
As we pointed out, he's the 
first to have this sort of 

3014
02:51:14,120 --> 02:51:17,200
wildfire specific idea, but he's
not the last, right? 

3015
02:51:17,720 --> 02:51:20,640
Egg has this wildfire dream sort
of thing. 

3016
02:51:20,640 --> 02:51:24,120
Aries does too. 
So it's important enough to have

3017
02:51:24,120 --> 02:51:27,200
been part of the historical 
memory in the world and for the 

3018
02:51:27,200 --> 02:51:30,480
plot of A Song of Ice and Fire 
for as of yet to be revealed 

3019
02:51:30,480 --> 02:51:32,040
reasons, at least not fully 
revealed. 

3020
02:51:32,280 --> 02:51:35,080
Here's a famous example from 
Jamie quote. 

3021
02:51:35,640 --> 02:51:39,360
The traitors want my city. 
I heard him tell Rosart. 

3022
02:51:39,440 --> 02:51:43,640
But I'll give them naughty but. 
Ashes let Robert be king over 

3023
02:51:43,640 --> 02:51:47,160
charred bones and cooked meat. 
The Targaryens never bury their 

3024
02:51:47,160 --> 02:51:51,120
dead, they burn them. 
Aries meant to have the greatest

3025
02:51:51,120 --> 02:51:55,800
funeral pyre of them all. 
Though if truth be told, I do 

3026
02:51:55,800 --> 02:51:58,000
not believe he truly expected to
die. 

3027
02:51:58,600 --> 02:52:03,000
Like Aryan bright fire before 
him, Aries thought the fire 

3028
02:52:03,000 --> 02:52:07,440
would transform him, that he 
would rise again, reborn as a 

3029
02:52:07,440 --> 02:52:10,680
dragon, and turn all his enemies
to ash. 

3030
02:52:11,640 --> 02:52:15,520
Now, perhaps this is a subset of
madness because people associate

3031
02:52:15,520 --> 02:52:17,520
it with madness for good. 
Reason, right? 

3032
02:52:17,560 --> 02:52:19,960
In addition to the examples 
we've been given throughout the 

3033
02:52:19,960 --> 02:52:25,320
episode, Aryan's name most often
seems to come up when failed 

3034
02:52:25,320 --> 02:52:26,840
attempts to hatch Dragons are 
mentioned. 

3035
02:52:26,840 --> 02:52:30,000
Which, yeah, that's associated 
with madness too, right? 

3036
02:52:30,000 --> 02:52:32,520
That's my point. 
So here's a fun irony. 

3037
02:52:32,680 --> 02:52:36,240
Alistair Florent, the Hand 
before Davos, thinks 

3038
02:52:36,240 --> 02:52:39,760
Melisandre's message of bringing
back Dragons is crazy talk. 

3039
02:52:40,200 --> 02:52:42,880
Quote. 
He's always with the red woman 

3040
02:52:42,880 --> 02:52:46,880
and he is not in his right mind.
I fear this. 

3041
02:52:46,880 --> 02:52:50,640
Talk of a stone dragon. 
Madness I tell you. 

3042
02:52:50,880 --> 02:52:54,360
Sheer madness. 
Did we learn nothing from Aryan?

3043
02:52:54,360 --> 02:52:56,960
Bright fire? 
From the 9 mages? 

3044
02:52:57,240 --> 02:53:01,280
From the alchemists did we learn
nothing from Summerhall? 

3045
02:53:01,880 --> 02:53:04,880
No good has ever come from these
dreams of Dragons. 

3046
02:53:05,120 --> 02:53:10,480
I told Axel as much. 
My way was better, sure. 

3047
02:53:10,920 --> 02:53:15,240
And Stannis gave me his seal. 
He gave me leave to rule. 

3048
02:53:15,480 --> 02:53:18,600
The Hand speaks with the King's 
voice. 

3049
02:53:19,280 --> 02:53:23,560
The irony is not directly 
included in that quote, is what 

3050
02:53:23,560 --> 02:53:25,600
Stannis himself thinks. 
But. 

3051
02:53:26,240 --> 02:53:29,320
You know, poor Alistair is 
burned alive, so he doesn't 

3052
02:53:29,640 --> 02:53:32,360
quite get to see the irony and 
probably wouldn't laugh at it 

3053
02:53:32,360 --> 02:53:34,400
even if so. 
But Stannis says almost the 

3054
02:53:34,400 --> 02:53:38,840
exact same thing, at least as it
pertains to Aryan and bringing 

3055
02:53:38,840 --> 02:53:41,880
back Dragons. 
Here's Stannis doing just that 

3056
02:53:42,080 --> 02:53:44,760
quote. 
The look Stannis gave her was 

3057
02:53:44,760 --> 02:53:48,800
dark. 9 mages crossed the sea to
hatch Aegon the Third's. 

3058
02:53:48,800 --> 02:53:53,680
Cache of eggs Baylor the Blessed
prayed over his for half a year.

3059
02:53:54,040 --> 02:53:57,760
Egon the 4th built Dragons of 
wood and iron. 

3060
02:53:58,440 --> 02:54:02,520
Aryan Bright Flame drank 
wildfire to transform himself. 

3061
02:54:03,040 --> 02:54:06,400
The mages failed. 
King Baylor's prayers went 

3062
02:54:06,480 --> 02:54:09,960
unanswered. 
The wooden Dragons burned and 

3063
02:54:09,960 --> 02:54:13,600
Prince Aryan died screaming. 
It's interesting again just how 

3064
02:54:13,600 --> 02:54:16,640
well known Aryan's reasoning is.
Everybody knows he thought it 

3065
02:54:16,640 --> 02:54:19,440
would turn him into a dragon. 
It has to be something he talked

3066
02:54:19,440 --> 02:54:22,080
about or at least was spoken of 
a lot afterwards. 

3067
02:54:22,080 --> 02:54:26,920
Like my guess is he repeated 
this thing many times and we 

3068
02:54:27,040 --> 02:54:29,520
have evidence for that. 
He said it as far back as 

3069
02:54:29,520 --> 02:54:31,520
Ashford, or at least Darren says
he did. 

3070
02:54:31,800 --> 02:54:37,360
So it may have been something 
that he was saying for 20 years,

3071
02:54:37,360 --> 02:54:40,040
right? 
Like is that probably what is 

3072
02:54:40,040 --> 02:54:42,480
that maybe where you land on 
this too or something like that?

3073
02:54:42,480 --> 02:54:45,880
I, I think it is. 
I mean, I think that Aryan was 

3074
02:54:45,880 --> 02:54:48,280
someone who clearly from a 
young. 

3075
02:54:48,280 --> 02:54:52,960
Age was obsessed with the idea 
of being a Targaryen and 

3076
02:54:52,960 --> 02:54:56,600
specifically being a version of 
the Targaryens that meant that 

3077
02:54:56,600 --> 02:54:58,760
you were better than everyone 
else and you didn't have to 

3078
02:54:58,760 --> 02:55:02,720
answer to anyone and you could 
do anything you liked to anyone.

3079
02:55:02,880 --> 02:55:07,320
And I think that increasingly 
throughout his life, Aryan saw 

3080
02:55:07,320 --> 02:55:10,800
Dragons as the answer to that. 
And what I think, and maybe this

3081
02:55:10,800 --> 02:55:15,480
is a good place to land on, on 
Aryan, if we can say that about 

3082
02:55:15,480 --> 02:55:19,400
him, what I find so fascinating 
to talk about with respect to 

3083
02:55:19,400 --> 02:55:27,600
Aryan is how much he and his 
brother Egg both saw Dragons as 

3084
02:55:27,600 --> 02:55:32,440
the solutions to their problems,
but both saw them in completely 

3085
02:55:32,440 --> 02:55:35,880
opposite ways. 
You know, for for Egg, the 

3086
02:55:35,880 --> 02:55:41,600
Dragons were the way for him to 
enforce the pro small folk laws 

3087
02:55:41,600 --> 02:55:44,680
that were not popular among his 
aristocratic subjects. 

3088
02:55:44,880 --> 02:55:48,680
He thought, Ah, if only I had 
Dragons, then I would have the 

3089
02:55:48,680 --> 02:55:53,360
literal teeth that I would need 
to get these guys to submit. 

3090
02:55:53,360 --> 02:55:56,480
To say, you're not rising up 
against the Targaryens because 

3091
02:55:56,480 --> 02:56:00,600
we've got Dragons behind us, and
now you're going to enforce the 

3092
02:56:00,760 --> 02:56:03,680
good work that I want you to do 
in favor of the small throat. 

3093
02:56:03,680 --> 02:56:07,480
This is all to the good end. 
So Egg thinks of getting more 

3094
02:56:07,480 --> 02:56:09,920
rights for the lowest point 
among his subjects. 

3095
02:56:10,240 --> 02:56:12,840
For Aryan, it's completely the 
opposite. 

3096
02:56:13,240 --> 02:56:18,640
Aryan sees the Dragons as a 
license to do whatever he want. 

3097
02:56:18,640 --> 02:56:23,360
This is a draconic blank check. 
He can do anything he wants to 

3098
02:56:23,440 --> 02:56:28,960
anyone he wants, at any time he 
wants, for any reason he wants. 

3099
02:56:29,200 --> 02:56:32,640
And the only justification he 
needs is Dragons. 

3100
02:56:32,800 --> 02:56:34,800
I'm a dragon. 
I've got Dragons. 

3101
02:56:34,960 --> 02:56:37,560
I'm descended from Dragons. 
I'm the blood of the Dragons. 

3102
02:56:37,840 --> 02:56:41,920
You cannot question me because I
am the dragon. 

3103
02:56:42,240 --> 02:56:45,880
And I think it's just it. 
It's interesting the way that 

3104
02:56:45,880 --> 02:56:49,320
George R Martin writes these 
characters, that they can both 

3105
02:56:49,320 --> 02:56:51,960
have these ideas. 
They both have these dreams, 

3106
02:56:52,320 --> 02:56:54,400
literal, metaphorical, about 
Dragons. 

3107
02:56:54,760 --> 02:56:59,440
But where eggs are coming from, 
this place of good heartedness 

3108
02:56:59,440 --> 02:57:03,760
and desire to do right and do 
good, Aryans is coming from a 

3109
02:57:03,760 --> 02:57:09,320
place of tyranny and cruelty and
only desire to cause blood and 

3110
02:57:09,320 --> 02:57:11,680
pain. 
Yeah, just to gratify himself. 

3111
02:57:11,680 --> 02:57:15,240
Which he is through blood and 
pain, 'cause he likes that, 

3112
02:57:15,240 --> 02:57:17,360
unfortunately. 
For those people around him. 

3113
02:57:17,840 --> 02:57:22,840
So as far as unanswered 
questions, this whole bit of 

3114
02:57:23,040 --> 02:57:28,800
wildfire prophecy, this dreaming
that wildfire would matter, that

3115
02:57:28,800 --> 02:57:33,920
is an enduring mystery somehow 
connecting both his brother Egg 

3116
02:57:33,920 --> 02:57:38,120
and their descendant Aries, and 
maybe some other factors as 

3117
02:57:38,120 --> 02:57:39,960
well. 
It's a it's an uncomfortable 

3118
02:57:39,960 --> 02:57:43,800
subject because it involves Egg 
and his involvement in all that 

3119
02:57:43,800 --> 02:57:49,880
is tragic at the very least, but
it's far beyond that in terms of

3120
02:57:49,880 --> 02:57:52,400
the mysteries. 
And this connective tissue is 

3121
02:57:52,400 --> 02:57:54,200
very interesting. 
It's certainly curious that 

3122
02:57:54,200 --> 02:57:57,240
George decided that Aryan would 
be apparently the first one to 

3123
02:57:57,240 --> 02:58:01,480
have these curious Dragons will 
return via wildfire thing. 

3124
02:58:01,480 --> 02:58:05,080
And and maybe there's a whole 
lot more to be said about that 

3125
02:58:05,080 --> 02:58:08,120
and his role in it. 
But that's just one of many 

3126
02:58:08,120 --> 02:58:09,480
questions we have about his 
life. 

3127
02:58:09,720 --> 02:58:12,800
Certainly there's a lot of 
questions about his time during 

3128
02:58:12,800 --> 02:58:16,120
Makar's reign, his time in lease
and lots of other things. 

3129
02:58:16,120 --> 02:58:21,160
So I do suspect that we'll have 
a call to return to this subject

3130
02:58:21,160 --> 02:58:24,520
one day because there's a lot of
unanswered questions, and if we 

3131
02:58:24,520 --> 02:58:26,360
get those answers, we're going 
to want to relook at some of 

3132
02:58:26,360 --> 02:58:31,760
this stuff for further watching.
On this subject or unrelated 

3133
02:58:31,800 --> 02:58:34,560
subjects, we have the an episode
called The Burning of King's 

3134
02:58:34,560 --> 02:58:36,800
Landing. 
It certainly delves into some of

3135
02:58:36,800 --> 02:58:40,360
this wildfire symmetry. 
It also includes characters like

3136
02:58:40,360 --> 02:58:44,560
Cersei and a lot more 
foreshadowing in addition to 

3137
02:58:44,560 --> 02:58:47,240
what we put in the category of 
prophecy. 

3138
02:58:47,600 --> 02:58:49,200
We have a pair of episodes on 
Summer Hall. 

3139
02:58:49,320 --> 02:58:52,160
We have an episode on the Free 
City of Lease, which of course 

3140
02:58:52,160 --> 02:58:55,240
includes a bit of an Arian as 
well and a little more context 

3141
02:58:55,240 --> 02:58:57,280
or a lot more context on what 
that place is like. 

3142
02:58:57,720 --> 02:59:00,440
We also have a lot of other 
episodes with Nina. 

3143
02:59:00,440 --> 02:59:04,480
We did 3 on Baylor the Blessed, 
Young Baylor the Blessed being 

3144
02:59:04,480 --> 02:59:06,400
the first. 
Start at the beginning, if you 

3145
02:59:06,720 --> 02:59:08,160
are so inclined. 
That's where that is. 

3146
02:59:08,160 --> 02:59:11,920
We most recently did Jaharius 
the Second, the Targaryen red 

3147
02:59:11,920 --> 02:59:15,200
comet with you. 
And before that we also did 

3148
02:59:15,200 --> 02:59:17,280
legendary life of Sarayam red 
wine. 

3149
02:59:17,400 --> 02:59:20,000
So we've got several neenasodes 
out there. 

3150
02:59:20,160 --> 02:59:22,440
This will be the latest in that 
catalog. 

3151
02:59:22,840 --> 02:59:27,040
We're trying to one day have a a
full playlist of every 

3152
02:59:27,040 --> 02:59:32,480
Targaryen, maybe not baby Magor 
or other, you know, infants, but

3153
02:59:32,640 --> 02:59:35,560
pretty much all the adults and 
and meaningful youngsters will 

3154
02:59:35,760 --> 02:59:37,040
will have their own episode one 
day. 

3155
02:59:37,040 --> 02:59:40,560
So we're glad to add that or add
this one to that list, to that 

3156
02:59:40,560 --> 02:59:41,560
role. 
I thought you're going to say 

3157
02:59:41,600 --> 02:59:43,680
we're we're aiming to have a 
whole playlist of Neenah songs. 

3158
02:59:44,320 --> 02:59:46,560
Well, we will have that too. 
We should I. 

3159
02:59:46,560 --> 02:59:49,520
Mean now we've got what, at 
least 6 now if I maybe I forgot.

3160
02:59:49,520 --> 02:59:52,080
One, but that's that's where 
they have a playlist and we'll 

3161
02:59:52,080 --> 02:59:53,760
keep adding to that too. 
A lot of people like these 

3162
02:59:53,760 --> 02:59:56,960
Neenah focused episodes in 
particular, and they are they 

3163
02:59:56,960 --> 02:59:58,600
are a little bit of a style all 
their own. 

3164
02:59:58,600 --> 03:00:01,520
So that's cool. 
Yeah. 

3165
03:00:01,520 --> 03:00:03,320
So thanks for hanging out with 
us today, Nina. 

3166
03:00:03,320 --> 03:00:07,240
You brought a lot to the table. 
This was a really fun episode. 

3167
03:00:07,240 --> 03:00:11,880
To record, don't forget to check
ninaout@goodqueenalley.tumblr.com

3168
03:00:11,880 --> 03:00:14,440
And thanks to the rest of you 
all who made this episode 

3169
03:00:14,440 --> 03:00:17,000
possible. 
Any goodbye wishes or anything 

3170
03:00:17,000 --> 03:00:19,280
like that? 
Never have to ask me twice to to

3171
03:00:19,280 --> 03:00:21,640
hang out and chat about the 
history of Westeros. 

3172
03:00:21,640 --> 03:00:23,320
Hey, what's the name Podcast 
but. 

3173
03:00:23,360 --> 03:00:26,560
I no, I I I love hanging out, 
love doing the episodes. 

3174
03:00:26,560 --> 03:00:30,000
I probably should write more 
tumblers than I do, but I never 

3175
03:00:30,000 --> 03:00:32,800
have time. 
But I always have more to say 

3176
03:00:32,800 --> 03:00:37,600
and I have A tag all about. 
I think it's under Aryan 

3177
03:00:37,600 --> 03:00:39,560
Targaryen. 
I think that's what I put it 

3178
03:00:39,560 --> 03:00:41,680
under. 
I should have done this homework

3179
03:00:41,680 --> 03:00:44,800
beforehand and I didn't clearly.
But if you want to search my tag

3180
03:00:44,800 --> 03:00:49,400
for Aryan Targaryen, I have 
written plenty about him and no 

3181
03:00:49,400 --> 03:00:51,880
spoiler alert. 
But don't worry, the Accursed 

3182
03:00:51,880 --> 03:00:53,400
Kings will get mentioned on 
there. 

3183
03:00:53,400 --> 03:00:57,920
So you're if you're thinking I 
need to know more about Martins 

3184
03:00:58,160 --> 03:01:02,280
weird obsession with a mid 
century historical fiction 

3185
03:01:02,280 --> 03:01:05,840
series and how it ties into 
Arian, I got Cure readers, don't

3186
03:01:05,840 --> 03:01:07,520
worry. 
Yeah, we did have an Accursed 

3187
03:01:07,520 --> 03:01:11,280
King section in this episode, 
but we had to move it or yeah, 

3188
03:01:11,280 --> 03:01:14,920
just remove it for now. 
Exactly. 

3189
03:01:14,920 --> 03:01:17,520
Yeah, This is this. 
This is now I just get to write 

3190
03:01:17,520 --> 03:01:19,680
a whole novel. 
It it will still see the light 

3191
03:01:19,680 --> 03:01:20,800
of day y'all just. 
Didn't. 

3192
03:01:20,800 --> 03:01:22,320
Make it into this particular 
episode. 

3193
03:01:22,600 --> 03:01:26,520
A hearty thanks and. 
Appreciation go to our patrons 

3194
03:01:26,520 --> 03:01:29,160
who make this show possible. 
Definitely couldn't do it 

3195
03:01:29,160 --> 03:01:32,480
without y'all. 
Including our hand of the King, 

3196
03:01:32,720 --> 03:01:35,640
a baseboard man Jack. 
Literally just a drunken 

3197
03:01:35,640 --> 03:01:39,160
Spearman. 
Gods help us, Lord Jim the 

3198
03:01:39,160 --> 03:01:42,440
Fortuitous of Wars and Politics 
of Ice and Fire Blog is our 

3199
03:01:42,440 --> 03:01:46,280
Warden of the West Kabethi and 
Frozen is Lord of the Bricks and

3200
03:01:46,280 --> 03:01:49,680
Castle Crimson Light Defender of
the Old Gods and Warden of the 

3201
03:01:49,680 --> 03:01:52,840
North. 
Andrew of House Crane is Lord of

3202
03:01:52,840 --> 03:01:56,480
Red Lake, Keeper of the Bloodied
Waters, and Warden of the South.

3203
03:01:56,680 --> 03:02:01,880
Wings of gold, Wings of silver. 
Our elite from outside the realm

3204
03:02:01,880 --> 03:02:05,800
include Pirate Queen Carrie, a 
Storm of Secrets of the Sea, 

3205
03:02:05,880 --> 03:02:09,080
Captain, Queen of Depth Feeder, 
which has sent countless ships 

3206
03:02:09,080 --> 03:02:12,400
to the bottom of the sea, and 
Jenny, the just captain of the 

3207
03:02:12,400 --> 03:02:15,400
ghost ship Liberty, which 
vanished in the Shivering Sea 

3208
03:02:15,400 --> 03:02:18,320
over a century ago but has 
recently been sighted near 

3209
03:02:18,320 --> 03:02:21,040
Volantis. 
If the tales can be believed, 

3210
03:02:21,640 --> 03:02:25,240
our White Walker patron, Nevada 
Pike, 4th of Frost, Frost 

3211
03:02:25,240 --> 03:02:29,200
Kraken, drowned in ice. 
Commander of cats and Krakens. 

3212
03:02:29,760 --> 03:02:33,360
Our small council includes Lord 
Chris B of House Baelish. 

3213
03:02:33,520 --> 03:02:38,160
Always keep your foes confused. 
Master of Whisperers, drown Dan,

3214
03:02:38,160 --> 03:02:42,120
Lord of House Windsor, Master of
karate, friendship for everyone 

3215
03:02:42,400 --> 03:02:45,800
and ships. 
Lord Goodkill McGee, ruler of 

3216
03:02:45,800 --> 03:02:48,520
castle over Yonder and master of
laws. 

3217
03:02:48,960 --> 03:02:51,560
The Sun. 
Bearer of House Noel, nicknamed 

3218
03:02:51,560 --> 03:02:54,680
the fatalistic farmer. 
Captain of the fig Knights of 

3219
03:02:54,680 --> 03:02:56,640
House Noel. 
Their sigil is a fig leaf 

3220
03:02:56,640 --> 03:03:00,960
emblazoned by the noon sun and 
Grand Maester Scotty. 

3221
03:03:01,560 --> 03:03:06,080
The Queen's High Council has 
Grand Archmaester Rennie, whose 

3222
03:03:06,080 --> 03:03:10,000
rod and ring and. 
Mask are quartz crystal wielder 

3223
03:03:10,000 --> 03:03:15,600
of the Valyrian steel Pen, Fire 
and Ink, Lady Wolfbird, Mistress

3224
03:03:15,600 --> 03:03:18,720
of the Eastern Rivers, 
Gatekeeper of the Northern 

3225
03:03:18,720 --> 03:03:22,480
Skies, daughter of the Silver 
Sea, and Master of Coin 

3226
03:03:22,840 --> 03:03:27,000
Devorahlynn Blackwood, maker of 
the Frozen Fury muscle bomb, 

3227
03:03:27,360 --> 03:03:31,280
eucalyptus and mint leaves 
washed with Dornish Peppers and 

3228
03:03:31,280 --> 03:03:35,240
sealed by fire ants. 
Master of Laws, Lady Jane of 

3229
03:03:35,240 --> 03:03:37,680
Driftmark, Guardian of 
Dragonstone. 

3230
03:03:37,960 --> 03:03:43,320
The Circling Flame Burns, Master
of Ships and Lady Sonia of 

3231
03:03:43,320 --> 03:03:47,720
Sunday, keeper of the Martel 
Menagerie, master of Castle 

3232
03:03:47,720 --> 03:03:52,040
Tormira, Topanga, tame and Keep 
Well, master of Whisperers. 

3233
03:03:52,680 --> 03:03:55,920
Our Lords and ladies include 
Lady Dyerliz of Castle Nachi, 

3234
03:03:55,920 --> 03:03:58,280
the alpha patron, Gregor the 
Toasty. 

3235
03:03:58,280 --> 03:04:01,640
Lord of the Bread Fort, the 
Bastard of the Wolfswood, First 

3236
03:04:01,640 --> 03:04:05,040
Forester of the Old Gods, sworn 
to House Ironwarewood. 

3237
03:04:05,120 --> 03:04:08,880
Listen for the silence. 
Lady Maura of House Stark, arch 

3238
03:04:08,880 --> 03:04:12,080
mistress of apothecaries and 
woods which her castle features,

3239
03:04:12,080 --> 03:04:13,960
weirwood doors with painted 
moons. 

3240
03:04:14,520 --> 03:04:18,160
Lena Snow, the Twilight Star 
bastard, daughter of Dane, wife 

3241
03:04:18,160 --> 03:04:20,320
of the trickster and Lady of 
Castle Rivia. 

3242
03:04:20,680 --> 03:04:23,720
Aminda Pink Wolf, lady and ruler
of Castle Whitefast. 

3243
03:04:23,880 --> 03:04:28,920
The ice emboldens Lord Benjen of
House Hornwood, Lady Rebecca 

3244
03:04:28,920 --> 03:04:32,440
Stark of Castle Aurora, wielder 
of a weirwood bow with Valyrian 

3245
03:04:32,440 --> 03:04:34,760
steel tipped arrows, and friend 
of Short Round. 

3246
03:04:34,760 --> 03:04:39,520
The direwolf Aurelian Mattheus 
Rhesus, Lord of House Aurelian, 

3247
03:04:39,640 --> 03:04:43,080
ruler of Dumbus Aurelianus and 
the Valley of Tennessee, wielder

3248
03:04:43,080 --> 03:04:46,760
of Soul Invictus, possibly 
Valyrian steel, keeper of the 

3249
03:04:46,760 --> 03:04:49,280
largest collection of books 
outside the Citadel. 

3250
03:04:49,560 --> 03:04:53,720
We restore the world Lord Darian
the Daring wielder of the 

3251
03:04:53,720 --> 03:04:57,200
Valyrian steel sword Wisdom, 
Lord of House Hollingsworth and 

3252
03:04:57,200 --> 03:05:01,280
the Holly Hold in Dorn. 
Power and knowledge gave the 

3253
03:05:01,280 --> 03:05:04,280
jade Blade whose foes are 
skewered and grilled. 

3254
03:05:05,000 --> 03:05:08,680
Lady Maria of House High Tree, 
Lady of the Castle, Fair oak on 

3255
03:05:08,680 --> 03:05:12,320
the crooked lake sigils, a long 
Grapevine with dark green leaves

3256
03:05:12,320 --> 03:05:15,640
and purple grapes winding around
a greystone pillar on a white 

3257
03:05:15,640 --> 03:05:20,320
field bordered by gold. 
Ever watchful Lord Abelard of 

3258
03:05:20,320 --> 03:05:24,840
House Hearkenen, Michael, Master
of the Grand Library, Patriarch 

3259
03:05:24,840 --> 03:05:29,040
of House Fine, keeper of 
Histories, and Lord Samwise 

3260
03:05:29,040 --> 03:05:32,400
Kimchi of House Chronic. 
Higher than Honor. 

3261
03:05:32,840 --> 03:05:35,840
Our Kingsguard includes Sir Dean
the White Knight of the Black 

3262
03:05:35,840 --> 03:05:39,760
Star, Sir Bateman The Dark 
Knight, Lady Ani, bringer of 

3263
03:05:39,760 --> 03:05:43,120
Winter's Warning, Watcher in the
Weirwood, Bearer of Wrist 

3264
03:05:43,120 --> 03:05:47,600
Wolves, Lord Jonathan of House 
Tanner, Lord Ray Dedo of House 

3265
03:05:47,600 --> 03:05:50,760
Avocado, protector of the Royal 
Kitchens, Green in the morning, 

3266
03:05:51,000 --> 03:05:56,440
dark by evening, Lady Katie Cat 
herder of the Tobean Terrace and

3267
03:05:56,440 --> 03:05:59,760
Royal feline Advisor. 
Our beard guard includes Lord 

3268
03:05:59,760 --> 03:06:03,200
Commander George the Golden Lady
Rita of the Copper Maine, the 

3269
03:06:03,200 --> 03:06:07,440
Unbound Dance, The Fervor, 
Bloody Ben Blackwood, Big Brian 

3270
03:06:07,440 --> 03:06:10,840
Blackwood and Davin Mack. 
Night of the Reeds The Bog 

3271
03:06:10,840 --> 03:06:14,000
Night. 
The Queens Guard is led by Lord 

3272
03:06:14,000 --> 03:06:17,680
Captain Commander Hema Helmand, 
the Self Sword Sentinel. 

3273
03:06:17,920 --> 03:06:22,720
With James the Green, Lord of 
the Meadows, Keeper of the Trial

3274
03:06:22,720 --> 03:06:27,440
of Grasses, Archmaester Vena, 
whose ring, rod and mask are 

3275
03:06:27,440 --> 03:06:32,600
made of steel, not putting, and 
Laura Boros, the Lady of 

3276
03:06:32,600 --> 03:06:36,080
Infinity, the history of 
Westeros Night's Watch includes 

3277
03:06:36,080 --> 03:06:39,000
Lord Commander Richard the 
Liger, heart wielder of Barry's 

3278
03:06:39,000 --> 03:06:41,080
ankle. 
Breaker of flail with blue and 

3279
03:06:41,080 --> 03:06:43,960
silver Valyrian steel spikes go 
blue. 

3280
03:06:44,480 --> 03:06:47,320
Sir Kobe of house Stonesmith 
returns. 

3281
03:06:47,520 --> 03:06:51,320
Words are wind, deeds are stone.
Legitimate grandson of the 

3282
03:06:51,320 --> 03:06:56,000
Bastard of Runestone and first 
steward Sir Zach of House Wild 

3283
03:06:56,000 --> 03:06:59,560
Lord Shredder of the Spiral, 
wielder of the Valyrian steel 

3284
03:06:59,560 --> 03:07:02,840
axe Grail. 
To get your own cool nickname 

3285
03:07:02,840 --> 03:07:06,920
like this designed by yourself 
or by us or both, go to 

3286
03:07:06,920 --> 03:07:10,800
historyofwesteros.com and click 
on the Patreon tab in the upper 

3287
03:07:10,800 --> 03:07:13,640
right corner. 
Until next time everyone Valar 

3288
03:07:13,640 --> 03:07:14,840
re read us.