1 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,120 Season 2 is in the books or in the show. 2 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,040 Wait, yeah, we took a long look at each episode individually, as 3 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,320 is our won't, and it sure does make sense to take a look at the 4 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,720 whole thing, the whole shebang. Look at the episode, the season 5 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,320 as a whole, right. The blacks and greens as 6 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,960 individuals will do that. And as units, including their 7 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,480 allies and those undeclared, as well as the plot lines in play, 8 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,680 we'll be less focused on predictions and what's to come. 9 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,880 That'll be a topic for another day. 10 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,720 There's plenty to say about that, but we'll parse things out 11 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,919 here. So much happened that it's easy 12 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,120 to forget where it began. And in order to properly make 13 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,520 predictions, we got to make sure we got a stronghold on 14 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,040 everything that's already happened today. 15 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,560 So our thoughts on the season in its entirety, our favorite 16 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,240 performances, moments, things like that. 17 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,240 Some meta analysis on the situation Visa VHBOA. 18 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:36,040 Few Easter eggs you could say this episode summarized would be 19 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,880 how it started versus how it's going with regards to season 2. 20 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,400 But we've got that and more on this episode of History of 21 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:49,280 Westeros podcast. Hello and welcome back 22 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,240 everybody. If you're watching live, well, 23 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,760 welcome back to Sunday's our very familiar time slot of three 24 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,440 Eastern. We've been holding down this 25 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,160 slot for quite a while. It doesn't really make sense to 26 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,760 do during the TV season because of when the episodes air, but 27 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,440 whenever it's not full swing, we drift back to Sunday. 28 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,400 So here we are, This is where we'll be for the time being 29 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:16,360 until the next TV season. So find us every Sunday at 3 on 30 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,080 YouTube, live streaming or with the occasional rerun 'cause 31 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,360 we're not here every Sunday, just most Sundays. 32 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,800 Sean, I see that you are wearing a Denver shirt showing your 33 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,920 hometown. Me, I'm wearing a a Green Man 34 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:33,320 which. Your hometown, too. 35 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,200 My hometown, Yeah. I live in Green Man, Georgia. 36 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,280 It is really green here actually. 37 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,080 It is quite green. Yeah, we're we're having. 38 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,280 Georgia isn't as hot as a lot of places would. 39 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,600 You might think Georgia would be hotter, but it hasn't been any 40 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,400 less humid, which is right now. That's the greenery goes crazy 41 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,040 here. And we are all green men in on 42 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,800 this podcast because we've all cosplayed the green men like 43 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,040 Green Man Always Sunny matched up with A Song of Ice and Fire. 44 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,800 So I love that shirt you got. And if you're not watching, you 45 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,440 might be surprised to find out that my Green Man shirt is not 46 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,240 green, but Sean's Denver shirt is black. 47 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,320 So we kind of have green and black going here, even though 48 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,880 one's only in Word, not color. We got a comment from books of 49 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,720 MERS who said, does Sean purposely have a background 50 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,720 that's complementary? Orange against diseases, Blues? 51 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,440 If so, that's awesome. If not, also awesome. 52 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,440 And I said it was ice and fire. Yeah, it's pretty cool. 53 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,960 We we kind of, it's kind of an accident, but it we kind of 54 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,240 noticed it worked out. And we're like, Sean, honey, 55 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,520 you've kind of, you've changed your posters around, but this 56 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,800 you, this one was like, whoa, this is this is the best it's 57 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,280 ever worked. Yeah, Yeah. 58 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:39,520 This is the best contrast we've had. 59 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,440 And what about your? What do you got to drink there 60 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,760 today, Sean? Anything special? 61 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,920 I was saying this is my magic mind drink and it's it's which 62 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,200 is a green drink on its own. And I've mixed it with the naked 63 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,560 Green machine and also the, what do you call it, the sparkling 64 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,840 ice, coconut, pineapple. And also, I just feel the the 65 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:02,400 drive to mention this isn't just a Denver shirt, it's a different 66 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,040 Nuggets shirt. And our star player Nikola 67 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:12,520 Yokich just almost beat the US basketball finals in the 68 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,600 Olympics. Like it's like the the NBA All 69 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,840 Stars versus Jokic. And it was a close game. 70 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,000 Wow, I'm not a fan of basketball so much, but I am a fan of 71 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,600 Nuggets, so I do appreciate the shirt. 72 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,840 Yeah, Nuggets. It's just a great word. 73 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,600 Like, what is when is a nugget bad? 74 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,160 Like Nuggets are always good, right? 75 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,160 It's a positive connotation. The end of the season also 76 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,400 brings back the return of our trivia questions. 77 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,120 It's a little much for us to have included during the season 78 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,800 when there's so much to talk about, but I'm glad to bring it 79 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,480 back. And we have a show related 80 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,160 trivia question. We we've mentioned a couple 81 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,440 times that Jefferson Hall, who plays Thailand and Jason 82 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,160 Lannister, he is one man playing twins. 83 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,720 Is was also the actor who played Sir Hugh of the Veil in season 84 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,040 one of Game of Thrones? There are at least two other 85 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,920 actors who are in both House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones. 86 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,440 These are pretty hard to know. I one of these I discovered on 87 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,560 my own. I haven't seen it mentioned 88 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,000 anywhere. And I say at least because it's 89 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,320 entirely possible there's another one or two that I didn't 90 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,320 catch. So if you know of any actors who 91 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,280 were in both House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones, name them. 92 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:22,800 And if you name one, if you get it right, or name one that I 93 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,120 haven't named, well, you'll get a shout out at the end here. 94 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,880 I mean, I haven't poured through every actor's IMDb page, but I 95 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:29,840 have poured through most of them. 96 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,080 So I, I, I expect that I caught them, but there might be another 97 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,360 sneaky one in there. I will give you all a clue. 98 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,200 They're both men, the one that I've found. 99 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,040 So if there are the two that I've found, So if there's, if 100 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,400 you find a woman that's been in both, well, you're, you already 101 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:43,760 know that you found one that I didn't. 102 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,960 Let's start with our favorite performances for the season. 103 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,560 Later, we'll talk about the season as a whole individually. 104 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,560 Like Sean will give his take a Shay, we'll give hers, I'll give 105 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,720 mine. But let's start with the way we 106 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,680 like to start our in season episodes by describing who we 107 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,120 thought was our favorite actors. And we're going to do a primary, 108 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,800 secondary and a tertiary. I've allowed I said told Sean 109 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,320 and Shay, define that however you want. 110 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,800 I'm going to pick a a a main actor than one who was maybe 111 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:08,960 second tier than who was surgery. 112 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,400 That's how I'm going to do it. But y'all do however you want 113 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,960 Sean, start with you. For me, number one is definitely 114 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,520 Emma Darcy. They were I feel like the most 115 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,600 impressive and got the most air time. 116 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:25,200 I just love, love their they're nuanced and the the types of 117 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,600 emotions they're struggling with to portray and the the character 118 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,280 themself is, is intriguing. You know, I could say the same 119 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,560 for for at least a dozen other people in the show, but but Emma 120 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,440 Darcy is the one that really stood out the most to me. 121 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,200 After that, it's a little closer. 122 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,440 It's a little tighter, like I I think I have my next two picked 123 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,600 out, but it's just like the slightest little nudge could 124 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,240 completely put two new people in and put them out. 125 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,160 I think Eve best it was spoiler. One of my favorite scenes from 126 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,160 the whole show was when she had to turn back around and face 127 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,760 Veigar. That that that moment and red 128 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,560 dragon and gold. I think it was that episode. 129 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,960 You had spoiler in our recap in our wrap up episode. 130 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,720 How could you? But, you know, she had a few 131 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,440 other nuanced moments too. And then the third I think, is 132 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,760 Fabian Frankel. I, you know, maybe I'm a little 133 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,400 biased by the wanting to defend the Kristen Cole character, but 134 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,120 still, I think that that that moment in that final episode 135 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,560 when he was talking to Gwen was really powerful. 136 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,920 And a couple other times too, even when he's doing something, 137 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,960 you know, maybe frustrating. Here's what I'll say is I think 138 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,520 for me, and I bet for all of you too, every time he's on screen, 139 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,280 some emotion is being evoked and so. 140 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,320 Yeah, some people are just like, seething. 141 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,760 Yeah. It definitely lessened as the 142 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,200 season one for me 'cause I like you said, like he's just this 143 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,840 performance has been really good and that that that's moving. 144 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,440 Less deceived about and he started getting less screen time 145 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,680 also. But but still those if I, if 146 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,760 I'm, if I'm pressed, Emma, Darcy, easy #1 those two I guess 147 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,080 are right #2 but I, I wouldn't argue with anyone. 148 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,080 There's a dud as in others I easily could have picked. 149 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,200 Well said, Sean. What about you, Ishaya? 150 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,640 It's really hard, isn't it? That's what she said. 151 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,000 Yeah, you know, on a different day, I could have picked 3 152 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,720 completely different names than what I'm about to say. 153 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,080 I could have said Emma Darcy as Rainura. 154 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,560 You know, I might have said Alice Rivers. 155 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:25,000 I might have said Simon Strong. That's not the names I'm going 156 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,640 to say today. Today I was called to say Tom 157 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:34,800 Glynn Carney as Aegon, who who captured such a transformation 158 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,200 from the beginning of his arc to the end, who under, who went 159 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,520 underwent so much prosthetic work, who made me feel for 160 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,280 someone that I, I, I, I don't have any I, I didn't think I 161 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,880 would feel for and who I'm riveted by whenever he's on the 162 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,160 screen. And he was always very funny as 163 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,720 well at the simultaneously, even at his darkest moments, the 164 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,320 scene with Laurie when they're just like talking past each 165 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,800 other. He still amused me a bit there. 166 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:02,200 So all the props to Tom. My second pick will be Alan Abu, 167 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,200 who played Allen of Hull because of that last episode. 168 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,320 I think he really both the performance and the character 169 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,800 he's like, I wanted to give kind of a shout out to a character 170 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,440 that I genuinely like think is kind of a decent person, 171 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,280 honorable and I'm excited to see in season three. 172 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,560 And I and I expect him to to to, to be a good man, I guess. 173 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:29,640 And I I'm excited for more of for more of Alan and my final, 174 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,680 my tertiary one. I will say, and this is hard. 175 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:34,680 This one was harder, which is why I said Simon for that one as 176 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:36,800 well. Simon Strong, I'm going to say 177 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,280 Alf arguable because maybe he is on the secondary tier with 178 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,320 Allen. Like they're kind of similar 179 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,960 levels. They both kind of had their own 180 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,440 plot line. That's how I was kind of trying 181 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,800 to define it. Who like who had their own plot 182 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,000 line versus who was as a player in someone else's plot line. 183 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,360 You know what I mean? And and Simon Strong was a 184 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,760 player in Damon's plot line, whereas Alf kind of was his own. 185 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,560 So I don't know if that's if I should say someone even more 186 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,000 minor, but I like a humorous character. 187 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,840 I like a funny guy and and I appreciated that performance a 188 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,920 whole lot. Bet you considered Gwaine very 189 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,880 strongly then too, given that I. Did, I did. 190 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,360 And I think he fits tertiary better because he is a he's part 191 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:19,680 of everyone else's story. He's not. 192 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:21,760 It's not about him. Yeah, he doesn't have any scenes 193 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,240 that are about him, but all has. That's a very, that's a pretty 194 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,360 good way to to categorize it. Like I said, I let you all 195 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,800 decide the categorizations and that's a pretty good way to do 196 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,280 it. Yeah, it is really tough. 197 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,280 I want to shout out Matt Smith, 'cause he's great. 198 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,400 But yeah, Emma Darcy just is just too good. 199 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,680 They're just so amazing. It's hard to hard to top them. 200 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,480 They're just, yeah, they're by the end of it, we'll be using 201 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,240 words like goat and things like that. 202 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,080 I think, 'cause this is, you know, roughly halfway through 203 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,320 the story. There's so much more. 204 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,560 In fact, there's more episodes with Emma Darcy coming than 205 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:54,280 there have been so far. That's one thing that I think 206 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,640 about this kind of baffling or or strange to kind of hard to to 207 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,520 swallow or realize. Even if they keep it at 8 208 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,760 episodes, which I hope they don't, but even if they do, 209 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,960 that's 16. So if they don't, it'll be 20 or 210 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,560 maybe somewhere in between like 18. 211 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,480 They've only been in 13 so far. There's only been 18 so far. 212 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,280 So, yeah, by the end of it, I mean, we got more Emma Darcy 213 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,840 coming than we've had so far. So in some ways we're not at the 214 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,600 halfway point of of them, but we are at the halfway point of the 215 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,720 show. So that's that's pretty cool. 216 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:28,000 I also want to give Aegon Tom Glenn Carney my second place. 217 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,240 I loved him all the way through. I was very impressed by him just 218 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,000 his he really did have a range, which a lot of the characters 219 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,920 it's not their fault. They just weren't given the 220 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,160 material to have a full range of on top to all the way at the 221 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,040 bottom right. Like, this is a man feeling 222 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,640 himself out as king to afraid his brother's going to kill him 223 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,920 to having to, like, retreat ignominiously in a, in a cart 224 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,600 full of Ravens. Probably smells terrible. 225 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,400 And he's, yeah, obviously his body is in pain. 226 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,960 So he he he got some of the most rangy material and just knocked 227 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,640 it out of the park. So I, I definitely got to call 228 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,400 him out for my third. It's it's it's it's difficult. 229 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,000 Like you all said, it's really hard to pick, especially when 230 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,800 you've already named 2:00 and you're like, oh, I've only got 231 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:12,720 one more. Oh, no. 232 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,000 Who do I? I kind of think I want to give 233 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,080 it to Fabian as well. It's real close. 234 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:25,240 I'm tempted to give it to to a Gwaine or an Alf as well. 235 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,680 They're both really for similar reasons. 236 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,520 Gwaine also showed us a lot of range despite being a pretty 237 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,120 minor character. We saw him it as as a fopish. 238 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Like I, I'm I can do whatever I want. 239 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,120 I'm a rich privileged kid to like very serious and at war and 240 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,240 just a lot of quite a range for such a small role. 241 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,600 And Alf kind of similar. I mean, we haven't seen him 242 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,240 maybe at his worst yet, but we've seen him at a pretty 243 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,960 expansive number of scenes. But yeah, I'm a go with Fabian 244 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:58,080 because, yeah, partly because like Sean said, it's it's they 245 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:59,840 get the full range. You get a lot of character 246 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:05,520 change and it's a character that I had a strong pre. 247 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,640 I had an opinion about him well before the show started. 248 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,440 And Fabian's acting has helped me like center that a little 249 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:14,920 more. It's like, yeah, don't let the 250 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,120 your feelings and the character shouldn't affect how you judge 251 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 the performance. In fact, sometimes that gives 252 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,840 them more credit or if anything, And I think that that really 253 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,800 came through here. So I don't have a single actor. 254 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,080 I would say they just weren't good. 255 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,960 There's no one I would point to and say that was a bad actor. 256 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,760 None of them I would say. So this is just remains along 257 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,920 with the music, the casting remains. 258 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Real diva though. Diva, Yeah. 259 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,480 I don't know. Silverwing was kind of 260 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,760 overacting in that one scene. Yeah, yeah. 261 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:46,480 What's? What's up? 262 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,800 Over the top, flying over King's Landing there. 263 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,960 Yeah, I don't know why. Everybody was so into that dog. 264 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,840 It was clearly just supreme. And that dog was just stealing 265 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,440 scenes. Like, I hear it was a real pain 266 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,600 to work with, too, you know, just always shedding everywhere. 267 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,520 Now, seriously, even. Yeah, even the animals were 268 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,040 amazing. Even the rats did a great job, 269 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,800 right? The Ravens were on point and on 270 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,360 pinions. Solan sends a super chat. 271 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:12,680 Thanks for the coverage all season. 272 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,800 Really enjoyed listening to your podcast while at work. 273 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,200 We appreciate it. That's when I do a lot of my 274 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,400 podcast listening. It's while I'm doing chores or 275 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,840 working, so I know the feeling. It is really nice to have 276 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,840 something entertaining to do while you're doing something 277 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,680 tedious. And that is that is a big part 278 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,800 of where podcast fits into our lives, I think. 279 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:37,120 So a few meta things that went down that were just coming out 280 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,800 in the news right when the season was ending, really kind 281 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,160 of just after it. So some of this didn't make a 282 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,960 lot of podcasts or Youtubes because YouTube channels because 283 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,280 because of it arrived so late in the game. 284 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,400 And the news was that HBO slash Warner Brothers lost just an 285 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,120 absurd amount of money, like $10 billion, which is kind of hard 286 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,120 to imagine how they did that. Like how like who lent them this 287 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,880 much money? Like where did they get like, 288 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,560 how like, wait, what? How does it possible to lose $10 289 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,640 billion? Like I wonder that when someone 290 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,080 loses like a few $1,000,000 at a casino, like, wait, how 291 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,280 physically how did you withdraw all those funds to lose them? 292 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,480 Like, no ATM will give you that. You went to the bank and said, 293 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,600 yes, give me a million. And like, I know there's like 294 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,840 wire transfers and stuff, but still, it just blows my mind 295 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,280 just the sheer scale of it all. And that's why HBO cut the end 296 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,680 of several shows, not just eight, not just House of the 297 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,000 Dragon, but also Last of Us and probably some other ones too. 298 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,840 But the fact that they're doing it to see with their most 299 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,160 successful shows is a really it's a bad sign about how they 300 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,120 manage their finances. You know, I, I thought a lot too 301 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,600 about how they could lose that much money. 302 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,240 And it occurred to me that they've got a lot of projects 303 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,240 going on and a lot of these big superhero movies are like, you 304 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,360 know, nearly billion dollar ventures. 305 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,280 You know, they spend hundreds of $1,000,000 to make them and then 306 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,160 make hundreds of millions of dollars back. 307 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,320 And so they might have lost 10 billion, but that that could be 308 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,320 deceiving. It's not like they, it's not 309 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,400 like they have no assets and owe $10 billion. 310 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:08,839 They they spent 100 billion and lost 90 billion. 311 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,960 Or made 90 billion. Yeah, yeah, you're right. 312 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,520 And I mentioned that the, I think I mentioned this, that a 313 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,200 lot of the expensive just house the dragon, for example, it's an 314 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,040 investment for next season. They already have like the the 315 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,359 dragon mount thing that they write on and they've already 316 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,560 worked out the the flamethrower to burn people within. 317 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,680 And they have the volume built for all the a lot of the expense 318 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,000 they've had for the first couple seasons they get. 319 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,240 They keep using for the next couple seasons, yeah. 320 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,520 Some of it now we can't make the mistake of thinking that all of 321 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,800 it. For example, we know that the 322 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:48,000 season one set for a high tide was was awesome, but they didn't 323 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,240 have that for season 2. It probably would have cost them 324 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,000 more to keep it than otherwise because they would have had to 325 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,520 like rent that space for two years until they used it again 326 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,120 and keep all that place clean and everything. 327 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:57,520 So yeah, it isn't always worked that way. 328 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,600 Petron is right. That's a thing. 329 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,880 But there is another wrinkle here that I think we that cast 330 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,440 the studios in an even worse light. 331 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,760 And I want to say all these things because I don't want 332 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,040 people to blame the show. Blame the show for other things 333 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,800 if you want. Certainly they're not criticism 334 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,320 free. They still wrote what they 335 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,040 wrote. And you may or may not like 336 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,360 everything they wrote and that's fine. 337 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,680 You may not like every casting or every decision, whatever you 338 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,440 that's fine. But what I want to make clear is 339 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,520 that HBO spent a lot of this money can't maybe not HBO, but 340 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,000 Warner, because that's the parent company. 341 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,720 Some of the reason they encourage so much fees is 342 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,920 because they weren't trying to pay the riders properly. 343 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,320 They were saving that money and they were spending that money on 344 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,040 legal fees rather than paying the riders what they're worth, 345 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,680 rather than paying these people what they deserve. 346 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,200 And that's why we got the riders strike. 347 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:39,400 Now, of course, that's not just Warner. 348 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,320 That was an industry wide American, right. 349 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,720 It also wasn't in other countries. 350 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,360 But obviously America's very important for for such things. 351 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,880 We're we're kind of the center of a lot of these these 352 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,720 productions in the first place. So that had a adverse impact. 353 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,760 Their strategy of trying to bust the unions and not give in to 354 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,480 reasonable demands, not give in to reasonable concerns about the 355 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,600 future of AI with voice acting and things like that, these are 356 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,080 very well legitimate things to negotiate over. 357 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,680 So the studios did the thing that studios often do. 358 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,240 They were very corporate about it. 359 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,840 They were, they treated the their employees like enemies and 360 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,120 that had an adverse effect on a lot of shows like House of the 361 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:23,560 Dragon. So when they were forced to cut 362 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,280 the season short, they weren't. They were. 363 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:31,480 It was in part because of budgetary concerns caused by 364 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,160 their own selfishness, their own greed, compounded by the writers 365 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,000 strike actually making it hard to make changes to the script 366 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,680 after the fact once they were told they had to change it. 367 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,280 So again, this doesn't absolve Ryan Condall and Sarah Hess of 368 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,360 whatever particular criticisms you might have about things that 369 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:52,480 are more within the realm of the show. 370 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,880 But in terms of like what they had to work with, they were 371 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,080 kicked around a lot. They were given a lot of strange 372 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,240 restrictions that you wouldn't expect for such a successful 373 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,480 show. Normally they're really 374 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:01,800 successful. Shows are like, well, yeah, do 375 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,240 whatever you want, Here's more money. 376 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,640 You know, it's like that's not what happened here because of 377 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,320 prior mistakes and because of their going to war with their 378 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,600 own writers and, and industry wide. 379 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,880 So anyway, make that as you will. 380 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,880 But it's important to keep in mind these things when you're 381 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,040 judging as a whole, 'cause that's a big factor that they 382 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,560 don't want you to know. They want you to blame the show. 383 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,280 But, you know, I think the the studio deserves a lot of a fair 384 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,360 share, a lion's share, a Dragon's share of of the blame 385 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,360 here, which some people may not even have any blame to 386 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,600 distribute at all. But if you do, yeah. 387 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,800 On the other hand, on the positive side, it's number one 388 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,000 on the Nielsen's for streaming Hot House of the Dragon. 389 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,240 So there you go again. It's still successful. 390 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,960 This even if it wasn't a successful season one, still 391 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,240 highly successful, still very well received by the general 392 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,040 public. I know that a lot of y'all are 393 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,760 deep in the fandom if you're listening to us, so you may not 394 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,560 know how well it was received in general. 395 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,840 I loved it, for what it's worth. I will probably talk more 396 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,520 generally about our overall thoughts, but I I didn't finish 397 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,920 this all thinking, man, I wondered what happened behind 398 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,640 the scenes to ruin it that you know, I was like, man, this is 399 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,040 awesome. Oh, it could have been better. 400 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,160 Hey, I was happy. Anyway, that was my my take. 401 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,280 That's pretty much how I was too. 402 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,320 But doing this as we do, having done it for several years, I 403 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,080 sort of guess how other people are going to react based on what 404 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,360 happened. And I knew this finale would 405 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:24,440 have some criticism, even though I personally agree with you. 406 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,120 I was very happy with it. Sure, I wished it'd been two 407 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:28,960 episodes longer. I wished it'd had been episode 8 408 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,480 of 10 instead of just episode eight of eight. 409 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,240 But yeah, anyway, we we've beaten that horse to death. 410 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,360 Yeah, I I do know that my sister and my my parents in law are a 411 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,760 little frustrated. They were waiting for some big 412 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,320 climactic action scene battle at the end. 413 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,800 And I get that. Of course I get that, especially 414 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,360 having to wait two years for the next season instead of one more. 415 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,880 But also, I'm again, maybe I'm unique, maybe I'm beating a dead 416 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,880 horse, but I'm not watching this for some big climactic battle 417 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,440 scene. I'm watching this for nuanced 418 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,440 performances, for political intrigue. 419 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,680 And it's cool when they have Dragons on screen that look real 420 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,160 When a battle happens. It it matters to me more because 421 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,640 I care about the characters involved. 422 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,040 It's more gripping when it looks. 423 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,240 Good, yeah. Yeah, I agree. 424 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,200 And if it's done poorly, it can take you out of it. 425 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,640 Like there's some action that's done so badly that you're like, 426 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,080 that's that's becomes the story, how bad the action was. 427 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,880 So yeah, it's almost like it's like a lot of jobs if the 428 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,080 aircraft and controllers, like if they do their job, 429 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,360 everything's great. And you only really notice if 430 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,520 something goes wrong. It's like, oh man. 431 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,160 Yeah, Shake It. I often talk to my family about 432 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,640 the show. I don't know. 433 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,480 It's just not really something that comes up. 434 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,800 They watch it. My dad and mom have watched it 435 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,160 at certain levels. My dad, I talked to him recently 436 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,720 and he had like all these questions for me after the end 437 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,840 of that finale. He's like, I wanna know who 438 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,040 dies, who's gonna die. And he like, he was really, 439 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,360 yeah. He was very invested suddenly, 440 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,080 like, more than he'd ever been, right. 441 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,080 And he's like, who's going to die in this big battle? 442 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,280 I'm like, well, what battle? Like there's multiple battles 443 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,600 about to happen. Like there's land battles and 444 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,560 sea battles. And you don't know where the 445 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,480 Dragons will pop up in these battles. 446 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Like, which battle are you talking about? 447 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,080 And he was like, wait, they're not all going to fight like at 1 448 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,760 central. Like he kind of had this this 449 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,240 thought that they were all like armoring to. 450 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760 Super Battle. Yeah, you know, so anyway, so 451 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,040 that was kind of interesting. And then he he just really, I 452 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,680 was like, well, who do you, who do you want to live? 453 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,320 You know, and he was like, I really like the mud wrestling. 454 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,000 Lady Scirocco winning new fans. He said that's his new favorite 455 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:33,960 character. Anyways. 456 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,600 I I was so surprised. It was a pleasant surprise for 457 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,680 me. I didn't expect him to say her. 458 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,840 That's awesome. Go Lohar. 459 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,680 They go Lohar we go. Hi, Har. 460 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,520 Yeah. So, yeah, that's great. 461 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,240 I love to hear. I love hearing stories about how 462 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,960 like, people who aren't like super fans like us and take it 463 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,760 in and enjoy it. And I just maybe I, I don't 464 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,600 remember if I pointed this out already, but bears repeating 465 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,040 anyway because it's quick and and and noteworthy here. 466 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,560 In the first two books of A Song of Ice and Fire, there's two on 467 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:01,760 screen battles. That's it. 468 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,120 There's a bunch of battles, but they're just not on page. 469 00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,320 They're just described after the factor you hear about them or 470 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,280 Battle of the Whispering Wood. Catlin's like there, but she 471 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,720 sees very little of it. You can call that 2 1/2 maybe, 472 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,240 but it's just the Battle of Blackwater and the Battle of the 473 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,760 Green Fork through Tyrion's point of view. 474 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,640 That's it. And in the show, Game of Thrones 475 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,200 show, there's only the Battle of Blackwater in the first two 476 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,280 seasons. That is it. 477 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,000 That is the only battle in all of the first two seasons of Game 478 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,600 of Thrones. So they're pretty much aligned 479 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,400 there. Each of the shows has one major 480 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,800 battle before in the first two seasons and that's it. 481 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,760 And I'd say the hat DS, one major battle was a lot more 482 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,400 spectacular than than the Battle of Blackwater. 483 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,480 But Battle of Blackwater was awesome. 484 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,960 Like it had, like you said, Sean, it was very plot relevant 485 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,000 and it had a lot like it wasn't just about the battle, it was 486 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,760 about the people inside the castle and elsewhere. 487 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,920 So yeah. And even even more so in Battle 488 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,160 of Blackwater, was this sort of inner spliced with dramatic 489 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,520 elements? You know, just conversations 490 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,160 between. Like, sometimes I see that as 491 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,840 like a Christmas. It's just people in rooms 492 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,880 talking. Like that's all any show is. 493 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,800 That is what but but battle. Blackwater would go back and 494 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,400 forth. A couple of my favorite moments 495 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,400 came from that, that that that episode, or maybe even that 496 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,320 battle. But they weren't battle. 497 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,560 It was when Sansa was taunting Joffrey into leading from the 498 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,200 vanguard and when Stannis said thousands, you know, like those 499 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,960 were the good moments. I don't care. 500 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,600 Sandor chopped some guy down with a whatever. 501 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,440 You know, just. But Sandor talking to Braun in 502 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,600 the bar beforehand when they're, that was cool. 503 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,000 Like that was more interesting than yeah than him fighting. 504 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,520 Tense and and both developing and revealing, if you will, you 505 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,840 know. Yeah, that was really good. 506 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,480 Yeah. So and I thought, yeah, 507 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,840 certainly Rooks Rest had its own angles to that with people on 508 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,720 the ground and being helpless. And yeah, it it was really 509 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,240 strong for similar reasons. They put the stakes there and 510 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,960 they put the characters there and yeah, we cared. 511 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,440 One one thing I want to talk about here to set us up for the 512 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,960 larger discussions for this episode is looking back at what 513 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,880 the themes of the episode were. And we always did as a put a bit 514 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,320 of effort into each episode and kind of coming up with what was 515 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,920 the overarching messages or recurring aspects of the 516 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,560 episode. So #1 the first episode we had 517 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,760 duty. That was a big theme. 518 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,080 And then Winter is coming. I have heard you say that word 519 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,320 more than I'd ever like. Duty. 520 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,240 Duty, But it got. To a point where, like in our 521 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,320 breakdown episodes, I was like, is he gonna say it? 522 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:27,440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's. 523 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,080 Gonna say. Duty. 524 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,720 Yeah, obvious. It's a word that starts to sound 525 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,000 annoying when you hear it over and over. 526 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,320 It's not like it's not like other words. 527 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,320 Then episode 2 was more of the sacrifice side of duty, although 528 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,400 this kind of bled over the two episodes and then revenge and 529 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,600 escalation. Episode 3 continued that with 530 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,920 cycles of violence when something escalates and plays 531 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,880 out over the course of centuries or returns after after being 532 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,960 dormant. We also have these last ditch 533 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,040 efforts to stop the war, which were perhaps futile, but also 534 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,280 perhaps worthy. Hanging on the Conqueror was a 535 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,120 major theme of episode 3. His memory, his vibes, his his 536 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,440 armor, his history, all those things. 537 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,040 Episode 4 was pure war, the unleashing of the Dragons and 538 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,280 all the consequences that meant whether it was the damage they 539 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,600 caused, the death of certain people, or how people like 540 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,560 Kristen Cole viewed war going forward. 541 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,960 Episode five was a major power shift. 542 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,760 Raymond becomes Regent. Meanwhile, there's questions of 543 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,360 leadership with people like Allicent and Rainier herself. 544 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,520 And then there's grief. In episode 6, we saw the concept 545 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,560 of power held over the more powerful. 546 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,240 In other words, people of lesser power controlling or 547 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,080 manipulating people above them, whether in the episode title 548 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,800 with small folks. So it starts at the bottom, 549 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,080 whether you're talking about people throwing fish at Allicent 550 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,760 or whether we're talking about Mazaria or Lares getting in 551 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:05,000 close with Aegon and Reynira. The Monarchs episode seven took 552 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:12,080 the concept of ordainment from above to a new level where the 553 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,360 will of the gods and that which the gods choose. 554 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,280 Remember Dragons are considered gods in this context. 555 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,280 Was huge as Vermithor and Sea Smoke chose their riders and 556 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,480 Silverwing as well, along with Reynira believing her destiny is 557 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,520 part of this. The final episode teased that 558 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,960 which is to come. Whether we're talking Daenerys 559 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,920 far in the future or the outcome of the war or the lives of 560 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,560 certain individuals like Damon and Amond. 561 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,640 Great. The unlocking of great powers, 562 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,760 the Dragons taking to wing these new Dragons with their new 563 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,880 dragon riders. Well not new Dragons but dormant 564 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,160 Dragons now ridden again. As well as the return of certain 565 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,160 powers that have always been there and like the old gods and 566 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,160 and all that. Not to mention armies on the 567 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,720 March towards one big Uber battle. 568 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,640 No no, not one big Uber battle towards many different battles. 569 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,960 Naval land. Who knows what The Who who Who 570 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,920 knows what how will happen with the Dragons in the air. 571 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,640 Yeah, I was going to say that. I thought that there were three 572 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,480 and I'm sure I I wouldn't argue with someone saying no, not so 573 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,600 much or there's this other one too, but I felt like there were 574 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,040 three overarching themes throughout. 575 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,240 One was this sort of destiny versus decision thing, the will 576 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,640 of the gods, you're saying, or whatever. 577 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,200 A lot of times the characters are, you know, finding or trying 578 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,360 to find their role in the bigger picture, right? 579 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,280 Ranira starts to make some of her decisions based on the idea 580 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,120 that like, hey, the Dragons chose these writers. 581 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,120 It must be part of some bigger plan. 582 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,000 And her dad told her about this prophecy for the future, the now 583 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,960 Damon has seen. And so sometimes that might make 584 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,600 people feel justified in some of what they're doing, you know, 585 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,680 when they think it is part of a bigger thing. 586 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,560 And I, I can't help this. It's just part of what I have to 587 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,480 do to fulfill this prophecy, You know? 588 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,960 Then I think identity, I think a lot of characters through the 589 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,720 course of this have gone through some identity changes, sometimes 590 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,840 based on the role they have or the amount of power that they 591 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,640 have. But also just seeing the effects 592 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,160 of their decisions on their lives and their loved ones has 593 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040 made them question it and maybe change what they should be, what 594 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,480 they think they should be doing or whatever. 595 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,000 Maybe Cole and Allison maybe are the most clear examples of that, 596 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,960 although maybe they are ones who they're starting to regret or 597 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,520 question decisions they made. I feel like Rainier's identity 598 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,280 might be starting to abandon some of her restraint, that that 599 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,960 piece of her identity might go away. 600 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,080 Because that leads me to, I think the third prominent theme, 601 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,280 which is the horrors of war, that that several episodes and 602 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,120 several characters throughout the course of this seem to be 603 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,120 resisting war in every way they can. 604 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,520 And it just seems to be coming less and less possible. 605 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,040 But we're already starting to see the results of it. 606 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,120 And I think to whatever extent you want to compare the Dragons 607 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,040 to like nuclear bombs, even aside from nuclear bombs, we 608 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,200 were firebombing the heck out of Germany and and Japan before we 609 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,600 ever launched a nuclear bomb. We did way more damage with 610 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,800 firebombing than we did with the the atomic bombs. 611 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,000 And Aegon, you know, he happens to be the king. 612 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,320 He's his central character, so we're paying attention to him. 613 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,520 But God, I can't imagine how many thousands of people were 614 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,320 suffering those same types of burns due. 615 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:33,920 To. War, you know what I mean? 616 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,960 He's just the one we're kind of seeing now. 617 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,680 But we, we hear a sharp point, you know, thousands of people 618 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,320 were killed, probably a lot more are are left with scarring, 619 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,120 burns and broken limbs. And same thing at the Rook's 620 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,160 Rest. And to to me it's almost, I'm 621 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,160 almost glad they don't focus on it more 'cause it's so 622 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,000 disturbing. I hear that. 623 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,960 Yeah. Super chat from Merlin's milkers 624 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,760 brings up a great concept, Something we should talk about. 625 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,000 Merlin's milkers. Yeah. 626 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,080 I didn't know Merlin was so endowed. 627 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,600 Is Merlin Merlin's been gender flip now? 628 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,000 OK, I'm. I'm down with that. 629 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,720 No, no, just just no. Just has big titties. 630 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,680 Just has big titties, OK? They don't actually have milk. 631 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,200 It's just the. It's just the term, OK. 632 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,120 Maybe he has minions that milk cows. 633 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,040 Maybe he just likes milk a lot. He's got a squad called Merlin's 634 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,200 Milkers. They're always out there on the 635 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,000 farm doing great work with those cows. 636 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,600 Merlin's milker says. Thanks for the content y'all. 637 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,720 Season one didn't have crazy battles, but it was still rated 638 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,200 higher. I I think the main issue for 639 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,360 most people this season was pacing, not lack of battles. 640 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,160 Well let's let's define most people. 641 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,360 I think if you're talking about listeners of our show, I think 642 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,480 you I would probably agree to that. 643 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,720 I think the wider fandom complained about the lack of 644 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,680 battles. I agree that I think like y'all 645 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,120 for our listeners didn't complain about that at all. 646 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,400 I think people complaining about the lack of battles was them not 647 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,840 being able to articulate what they felt was off. 648 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,000 I think they were sensing a pacing issue and just like 649 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,040 putting it into words by saying that. 650 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,280 But I think they would have been happy if the pacing was 651 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,720 different regardless. I think that's very fair to say. 652 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,000 I think a lot of people are not great at articulating their 653 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000 criticisms. And sometimes that just causes 654 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,320 people to argue because it's like, well, that's because they 655 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,160 don't necessarily articulate their criticism very well. 656 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,680 It doesn't mean their criticism isn't valid. 657 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,200 That just means they aren't able to communicate it super well. 658 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,360 And then if you argue with someone or debate someone based 659 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,720 on what they've said rather than what they're trying to say, then 660 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,080 that can really get you off track. 661 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,440 And that can cause arguments rather than debates, I think. 662 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,280 And so I, I, I tend to somewhat agree that the pacing wasn't as 663 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,200 good this season. I wouldn't say it was bad, but 664 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,920 I'd say that season one's season one's pacing was also very 665 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,720 unusual because. Yeah, with all the time. 666 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,520 Jumps. It had massive time jumps almost 667 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,360 every episode where this entire season probably only covered a 668 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520 few months whereas the first season covered like 25 years. 669 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,920 So like, it's already a massive change in the the way the time 670 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,640 passes during the show. I've I've made this sort of 671 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,240 comment before too, by the way. Sometimes it's expectations. 672 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,440 If someone says, hey, I'm going to give you $100. 673 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:04,400 Oh, wow. For free. 674 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,400 Yeah, thanks. Cool. 675 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,920 And then they give you $95 like, hey, hey, this is only 95. 676 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,080 You said 100. Like, I don't have to give you 677 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,239 anything. Like you, you should be happy 678 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,080 for the 95. And I, I don't think that's 679 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,280 necessarily even the best analogy because I think that 680 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,639 people, for example, I've seen a lot of complaints about like 681 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,880 Damon, you know, floundering in, in Harrenhal, right? 682 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,639 And I think that's because people expected Damon to go to 683 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:30,960 Harrenhal and kick butt. They thought he was gonna like 684 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,239 stab someone with a sword and burn someone with his dragon. 685 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,280 And that didn't happen. Something different happened. 686 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,920 And so they kept being disappointed or surprised or 687 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,400 waiting for it, then it wasn't coming. 688 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,600 But if that's wasn't what you were expecting in the 1st place, 689 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,440 if what you were expecting was a dramatic analysis of his 690 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,520 internal grief, well, then this is it. 691 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,520 That's awesome. And that's exactly what you got. 692 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,800 And I think that's $105.00, not 90. 693 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,800 I think that's more than if he just gone and chopped a couple 694 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,800 heads off or something. He, he eventually did chop the 695 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,920 head off, but it was a very meaningful moment when he did. 696 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,880 So I, I think sometimes it comes from expectations. 697 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:10,480 And I think you can even test my theory by rewatching the season. 698 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,520 I think if you rewatch the season as you go through that, 699 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,120 you won't be frustrated. There wasn't a battle at any of 700 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,920 you for him because you already know there's not. 701 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,360 And instead you'll pay more attention to what is happening, 702 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,440 which is very interesting, very well directed, very well 703 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,640 performed, etcetera. So. 704 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,360 Yeah, that's well said. I think. 705 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,680 I think I mostly agree with that. 706 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,720 And back to Merlin's Milker's point, it's hard to say that 707 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,360 without laughing. So yeah, I think the pacing is a 708 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,480 fair complaint. It's obviously a big difference 709 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,800 from the first season, but I think a lot of that is also just 710 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,560 the source material. Like this is this is what George 711 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:47,600 gave them the they condensed 30 years into 2025 years, and that 712 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,280 gave them a lot of things to work with because they had to 713 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,600 skip things this time. They weren't skipping much from 714 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,960 the book because there wasn't much to skip. 715 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,360 It's like a couple of paragraphs here and there that describe 716 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,320 these massive grand events that they had to fill in a lot of 717 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,840 blanks for. And I think that was part of it 718 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,240 is like you're expecting them to fill in blanks, but the blanks 719 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:08,400 for season one are a little more straightforward. 720 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,560 I think the blanks for this one is like, well, what was Darren? 721 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,640 What was Damon doing at Harrenhal all that time? 722 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,440 That's from the book. It doesn't sound like he was 723 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,840 doing much at all. So having all this come out of 724 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,360 nowhere, it goes against expectations. 725 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,680 Even people who have positive expectations or we're happy with 726 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:26,960 that probably didn't see all that coming. 727 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,880 So yeah, I think you're right. Expectations has a lot to do 728 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,680 with it. And whenever you have a season 729 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,480 one, you kind of expect season 2 to maybe have more pay off. 730 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,120 But that's not really how. That's not really how the first 731 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,320 two seasons of Game of Thrones went. 732 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,440 That's not how the first two books went and it's not what 733 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,600 Ryan Condall said. Ryan Condall told us season 2 734 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,120 would be setting up and pairing. It's, you know, like it is more 735 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,320 like A Game of Thrones, a Clash of Kings, a Storm of Swords. 736 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,160 That's what season three is setting up to be. 737 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,440 Fray girl. That's with an A, not an E. 738 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,400 So it's not house Fray girl. Let's be clear. 739 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,520 Could Alice or one of her family line be Old Nan? 740 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,080 She knew about the antlers. It's possible. 741 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,760 I mean really hard to say who's Alice's relatives are or who her 742 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,880 family line is. Old Nan never came off to me as 743 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,440 someone that had magical, specifically magical insights. 744 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,000 She had an insight into magical things, but she herself is not a 745 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,720 supernatural being. Could be wrong, someone who 746 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:29,840 knows a lot about those things, but I can't say it's impossible. 747 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,360 I mean, the timeline fits. It's a pretty easy timeline to 748 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:38,400 fit Alice's, you know, probably Old Nan would have been born 749 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:41,880 around the time of Maester Eamonn, which would been in 750 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,400 around the year 200 one 98, something like that. 751 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,360 So good. 60-70 years after the Dance of the Dragons. 752 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,200 Well, we've already seen that Alice Rivers is a lot older than 753 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,360 she looks, so who's to say she can't live on? 754 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,000 I don't know if such a being can have children, you know, can you 755 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,960 keep having children if you have this extended life? 756 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,200 But based on a few things from the book, we can't rule it out. 757 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,520 So we are going to talk about Alice Rivers more. 758 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,960 We're we have an episode planned with Joe Magician in two weeks 759 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,800 from now. So we'll we'll talk about this 760 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:11,880 in a little more detail with him. 761 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,840 I know he has some theories and I can't some of the things I 762 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,400 can't say because I don't want to spoil Sean. 763 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,640 So we'll we'll come back for that episode and we'll get into 764 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,800 this a little deeper for a girl and everyone else. 765 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,200 Let's talk about the greens. We'll start with the greens in 766 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,960 the second-half. We'll talk about the blacks. 767 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,600 Allison starting with Allison. So one thing that we talked 768 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,880 about early that we that kind of fell off because it cease to be 769 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,920 a plot point, at least temporarily, maybe it'll come 770 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,960 back, which is her relationship with Kristen Cole. 771 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000 Who knows about it? And does it matter that people 772 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,920 know about it? Otto probably knows, Gwaine 773 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,680 definitely knows and Laurice most certainly knows. 774 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,400 Now Laurice has fled the capital. 775 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,040 So what? What's he even going to do with 776 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,840 that information? Gwaine is on campaign with Cole 777 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,920 and he may neither of them may survive and Otto's in prison. 778 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,000 So the people that could spill the beans are not really in a 779 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,800 place to do so. And would it even matter if they 780 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:10,720 did? I'm not sure. 781 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:15,240 Like Allison, this relationship started after she was her 782 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,920 husband died. It would really be more of a 783 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,720 problem for Kristen than it would be for her, I think. 784 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,600 What do you think, Sean? How do you view this 785 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,040 relationship now that it's at least temporarily in the 786 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,280 rearview mirror? Maybe for good? 787 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,440 Yeah, there's a part of me that feels like it. 788 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,480 It should be done for good. I think there's a part of them 789 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,000 that's still cares for me, loves each other, is concern for each 790 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,320 other at least. But I think also the the the 791 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,040 separation that happened both emotionally and physically 792 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,400 throughout the course of the season has probably going to end 793 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,640 them romantically, but not their love for each other. 794 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:51,720 Does that make sense? OK. 795 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:54,240 Yeah, it does, yeah. And I, you know, I don't know 796 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,360 how much more they will get to interact in person anymore, but 797 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,840 I, you know, I think Kohl's. Vowels to the Kingsguard are 798 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,000 going to retake hold if you will, and it'll be torn but and 799 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,200 I, and I think she maybe even won't understand that and 800 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,200 understand they can't really have a relationship that that 801 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,720 she wants or needs. But I don't know if it's going 802 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,440 to matter their their relationship itself or people 803 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,640 who might know about it. I don't know what good anyone 804 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,040 would get from talking if things turned around somehow. 805 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,760 Like, let's say the Greens win this war and take power and 806 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,320 Allison is effectively leading because Zagon's died or missing 807 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,240 or what, you know, I could see some scenario where she 808 00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:37,080 effectively is back in power. Then someone might want to 809 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,720 blackmail her and her Cole. But I got to say I don't really 810 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:42,920 foresee that happening. So I, I don't think, you know, 811 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,520 one is really motivated. I I can imagine a few other 812 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:46,680 people knowing about this, by the way. 813 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,240 I can imagine her being some some chambermaid or one. 814 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:51,160 Of the other keys guard. That's how Lars would have 815 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,880 found. Out at least being aware of it. 816 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,760 Maybe they're not certain or they don't have proof, but I 817 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,160 think those people also would have little to gain by telling 818 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,120 anyone. They're probably going to 819 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,920 endanger their own lives more than anything by telling anyone 820 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,640 about it. That's probably true, yeah. 821 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,960 You wonder, too, if Laris is left. 822 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,800 He's fled, but he's probably still got spies that he's left 823 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,600 behind in his household that could send him things. 824 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,320 You know, he's got money to give them for their information. 825 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,840 So they certainly have an incentive beyond just loyalty 826 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,400 because I don't know if that would be enough. 827 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,680 Another aspect to Allison's story that didn't, we didn't see 828 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,240 any progress in in the last few episodes, but we saw several 829 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:26,520 earlier, was her digging into books. 830 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,640 And I wonder if that's going to continue and if she's going to 831 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,200 learn anything more about that or whether that will ultimately 832 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,480 matter or whether that's just a plot threat that they've 833 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,760 abandoned. Rainier is one of those scrolls 834 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,600 now too, isn't she? She is. 835 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,560 You're right with that really brilliant framing shot. 836 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,280 Yeah, I'm. Just making a kind of dirty 837 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,760 joke. She's going to go deep into that 838 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,800 scroll. Unroll that one. 839 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,400 So that's something I'm curious about and one reason that I'm 840 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,360 thinking about in particular is that she's fallen from power. 841 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,880 That was one of her major arcs. The season is her slow but also 842 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,640 kind of sudden loss of power was like it was slow slow. 843 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,840 It's like drop A level, drop A level drop completely, right? 844 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,840 Just you're no longer on the council even, right. 845 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,080 Like so this gives her more time for being a mother and maybe 846 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,520 doing research. And certainly she's her turn to 847 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,880 motherhood has been very interesting because she's like, 848 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,040 well, I can't save my sons, but I can save my daughter and my 849 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,520 granddaughter. So that's very interesting. 850 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,440 This gets into predictions territory, but it does show 851 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,480 where her mind is at, where she wants to save Helena and Jahara. 852 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,600 Will she be able to? Where would they even go? 853 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,040 All these questions that are for later. 854 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,000 Let's talk about Eamonn. Eamonn's personality probably 855 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,520 doesn't change a lot, although he's confronted with something 856 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,840 that might shift his personality at the end here. 857 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,240 We haven't seen his full reaction to the events of of 858 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:55,200 episode 8, which are probably the other than him being 859 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,480 promoted, which made him more of himself than he ever was. 860 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,320 He just became more AIM. And he hasn't really been. 861 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,600 He hasn't met with proper resistance. 862 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,440 He's met with lots of disagreement, lots of people 863 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,160 saying you shouldn't do that, lots of people telling him it's 864 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,200 a mistake. He mostly just plows through all 865 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,080 that. So the consequences of any of 866 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,320 these mistakes haven't fully manifested. 867 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,720 For example, the Triarchy, he's everybody's like, don't make an 868 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:22,120 alliance with the Triarchy because in the long run, blah, 869 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,240 blah, blah will happen. Well, we haven't gotten to the 870 00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:27,760 long run yet. The short term they may very 871 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,000 well help and that we haven't even seen that yet. 872 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,680 So there's a lot of things that have to play out with, but just 873 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,280 consider how it started. Remember early episode one, 874 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,000 Aegon brought Amon to council and Allison was like, what's he 875 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,160 doing here? Which sort of frames why Amon 876 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,120 wanted Allison con later 'cause he was like what she she was 877 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,560 objecting to him being there and then he kicked her out. 878 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,280 But also just the idea that Aegon was like, my brother's so 879 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,480 loyal. I can set him on AI can set him 880 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,600 like a dog on my foes. That's what he said to his 881 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,040 drinking's guard before they were drinking's guard. 882 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,240 Like oops, like think about that. 883 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,560 Like, whoops, that was that was kind of. 884 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,560 Yeah, Aegon really thought too highly of his brother. 885 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,880 Like he was very naive with that. 886 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,600 I mean, it's kind of a good quality in a lot of ways. 887 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,600 You kind of, you don't want to just be a paranoid person who's 888 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:21,920 like looking over your shoulder. Like, I don't know, I kind of 889 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,960 like that quality. Like I think it would have been 890 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,400 more sensible for him to be suspicious of Eamon from the 891 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,920 gecko, you know what I mean? Like that would have been 892 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,120 sensible, but I think it's admirable that he would truly, 893 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,240 really and truly trust and love his brother and, and be mean and 894 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:38,480 bully him and all of these things. 895 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,240 Like, again, Aegon has been terrible to Amon, but I think he 896 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,920 he never thought that Amon would stand up to him. 897 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,520 So maybe that's a less charitable view of it, right? 898 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,320 That rather than about the love and trust that he just never 899 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,920 thought Amon would actually stand up against him. 900 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,280 I don't know. I think that he thought too much 901 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,680 of his brother and too little of his brother really. 902 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,680 He is just too self-centered to appropriately think about his 903 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,640 brother at all. Does that make sense that he was 904 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,880 just assumed he could use him as a tool however he wanted 905 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,480 whenever he want. If I want to make so on and so 906 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,040 on, I'll make fun of my brother. If I want someone to be on my 907 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,880 side when I say let's go to war, I, I'll give my brother, you 908 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,000 know, so he potentially could have had a better ally in 909 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,800 aiming, right? That that was in that in the 910 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,880 council. Like he wanted his brother there 911 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,920 because he knew his brother would be on board with let's go 912 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,800 to war. But outside the council, he 913 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,360 treated his brother like crap. So outside the Council's brother 914 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,200 burden. Yep, I mean, that's that's a 915 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,400 good way to put it. He could have made an ally of 916 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,840 his brother, but he's not good. Like a lot of people in his 917 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,680 position, a lot of privileged people with who are under 918 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,280 parented and even some who were parented properly or over 919 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,400 parented, they don't think through the consequences of 920 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,040 their actions very well because they're they're they're in, 921 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,400 they're immune to a lot of the consequences of their own 922 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,600 actions because of that great level of privilege. 923 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,160 And and you know, oh, the king messed up. 924 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,680 OK, that's fine. You just like when he gets away 925 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,440 with rape, for example, like what better example is that? 926 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,640 I mean, a lot of rich privileged people can get away with crimes 927 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,200 like that. We were in the real world. 928 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,360 That happens all the time, sad to say, but not a surprise to 929 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,640 anyone to hear it. So yeah. 930 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,000 So he's a person that grew up with not experiencing the 931 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,600 consequences of his own actions and now he is like he taunts his 932 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,040 brother and his brother pays him back a hundredfold. 933 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:30,080 Now to be fair, yes, Eamon's disloyalty started before that. 934 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,560 He was plotting with Kristen Cole on the sly and making plans 935 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,680 and all this other stuff. And this is and this is shows 936 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,840 Eamon's arc a bit. A bit. 937 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,160 He has a high opinion of himself, and that just gets 938 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,080 bigger and bigger as the season goes on until he's finally 939 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,360 confronted the the person he perhaps least expected to stand 940 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,080 up to him. Obviously his mother's been 941 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,000 standing up to him this whole time, but he kind of just like, 942 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,480 pushes her aside and ignores her or just doesn't end around like, 943 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,960 well, I'll just come back to Helena when she's not there, 944 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,000 when Allison's not there and talk to her again. 945 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,000 Our mom doesn't understand. Oh, I understand. 946 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,320 I saw you burn our brother. He is. 947 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,000 He couldn't have predicted she would stand up to him and she's 948 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,280 he certainly couldn't predict the reasoning for her standing 949 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,080 up to him the the evidence that she has. 950 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,920 He couldn't imagine she would have that. 951 00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:21,080 So his whole world view is thrown off, His whole position 952 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,560 is thrown off, his authority has been rejected for the first 953 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,560 time, and he hasn't built loyalty. 954 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,760 Not only did did he do a worse job of getting his own family on 955 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,080 his side than Egon did, but he's turned his own counsel against 956 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:32,920 him. Think about this. 957 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,880 Council sessions were a regular feature of the early part of the 958 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,200 season. Eamon's just kind of semi 959 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,280 dissolved the council, right? Like Iron Rod. 960 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,480 It was like an Orwell, like that's it. 961 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,400 Like you know you didn't mean it specifically but if semi 962 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,960 dissolved means half dissolved he exact it went from 8:00 to 963 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,240 4:00 and in the last meetings one person wasn't even there. 964 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,680 Yeah, Elaris is gone now, so there's really only three. 965 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,440 I think it's just Iron Rod Orwell and Amond. 966 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,040 And yeah, Haman's flying all over the place, burning cities. 967 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,320 He's about to leap, right. Yeah. 968 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,120 So he. Can consult with this council 969 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,240 before he goes. Probably not Well, so it'll be 970 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,280 Helena. Will Helena hold a council 971 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,200 meeting? Will we even get a single like 972 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,480 moment of her ruling? I, I, I don't know, but that's 973 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,760 what Allison said is Helena will be the authority. 974 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,760 But like, I assume Helena is the authority and Iron Rod is 975 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:32,560 handling the, the day-to-day and like he comes to Helena and he 976 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:33,920 says, hey, Helena, can we do that? 977 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,440 I, I, I, I really would like to see this play out. 978 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,000 I know we're about to see Just Rainier a swoop in, but I 979 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,920 actually would love to see that. That would be cool. 980 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,120 A lot of Eamon's adage seems to be, look, I'm the best, I have 981 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:50,320 the biggest dragon. Well, how does his worldview get 982 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,760 affected by the fact that, well, now there's all these other big 983 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,960 Dragons, so, you know, you're not the most powerful, maybe 984 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,720 individual you are, but your side isn't. 985 00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:00,840 So how does that affect his his world view, his his going 986 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,520 forward? Well, that's a conversation for 987 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,080 another time. But certainly he's that's how 988 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,400 things end for him on a he's on a meteoric rise that he doesn't 989 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,080 realize is very problematic as he doesn't understand how many 990 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,400 bad decisions he's made because the long term hasn't played out 991 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,040 yet. And now he all of a sudden is 992 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,400 confronted by perhaps the, the the least likely person in his 993 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,480 family to confront him. And that's very surprising to 994 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,400 him. You know, another thing just 995 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,880 need to think about is a lot of the mistakes he made, he still 996 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,640 might not really face those consequences because it's not 997 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,360 really a mistake he made that caused Renera to get more dragon 998 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,720 writers, right? He'll feel like that's just this 999 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,000 unfair thing to happen, or the will of the gods, or another 1000 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,760 thing he has to overcome. Not that I messed up by closing 1001 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,400 the city gates to the people or the merchants ships or whatever 1002 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,000 else you won't think. Those are mistakes. 1003 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,800 Yeah. He may not find out the whole 1004 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,680 chain of events that that led to all that. 1005 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:52,520 And. And you're right, he'll 1006 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,120 certainly find another way to blame like he did with the 1007 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,240 blockade. He's like, why are they blaming 1008 00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:56,800 us for the blockade? That's Rainier's blockade. 1009 00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,200 He's like, yeah, but you're the kid. 1010 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,080 You're the one in charge. You're supposed to feed the 1011 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,240 people no matter what. Like, that doesn't matter. 1012 00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,200 Like the blame, Yeah, it's, it's annoying that they're blaming 1013 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,000 you, but it doesn't change your responsibility. 1014 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,400 But he doesn't see it as responsibility. 1015 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,480 He sees it as a privilege. I think that's a big part of big 1016 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,240 part of his, his view of everything. 1017 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,400 Aegon the 2nd, on the other hand, started with a few 1018 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,480 positive instincts. He's definitely naive, you know, 1019 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,960 but he wanted to win the people over, which was a good instinct. 1020 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,040 That's that was smart even whether he had the right logic 1021 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,920 behind all that or not. But he pretty quickly loses his 1022 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,680 grip when his son is murdered. He he goes from giving them what 1023 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,080 they want to giving them reasons to riot and turn on him. 1024 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,040 And then he just compounds that by making more rash decisions 1025 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,600 and starting to drink heavily, culminating with one and 1026 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,720 particularly one particularly rash decision that was brought 1027 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,240 on by drinking. So like the two things really 1028 00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:51,880 came together there for Rooks Rest and that changed his 1029 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,560 outlook dramatically. So he went from trying to be a 1030 00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:01,040 good king to having to to being the most powerful man in the 1031 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,080 Kingdom to running off with Loris in a box full of Ravens. 1032 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,240 Like that is a dramatic change for him. 1033 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,120 Technically still the king though in a manner of speaking. 1034 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,880 He's ordained and crowned and that that counts for a lot of 1035 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,920 people. Even if his family gets run out 1036 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,760 of King's Landing, there would still be people that believe his 1037 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,800 claim is superior. So I'd say one of the biggest 1038 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,640 changes and perhaps one of the most interesting ways to point 1039 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,080 to his arc is that he started off trying to not be like his 1040 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,960 father and just ended up more and more like his father the 1041 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,360 more he went through it. You know, he got to this point 1042 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,720 for different reasons, like his father's didn't lose his health 1043 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:45,120 because of 1 battle, but it was because of the throne, right? 1044 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,760 It was being king did these things to him. 1045 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,400 He's on, he's walking with a cane. 1046 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,920 His face is half burned. He can't have, he's not going to 1047 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,640 have a son like, you know, because he can't have a son, 1048 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,320 just like Viserys couldn't have a son, you know, until he well, 1049 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,720 he could, but not with his not with the wife he wanted to. 1050 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,400 So there's a lot of parallels there. 1051 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,720 And I think that's pretty dark, but also pretty pretty clever 1052 00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,560 storytelling to have him kind of turn this way and and be like 1053 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,320 the man he didn't want to be. I'm particularly enamored. 1054 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,800 That's honestly part of the reason I voted for Hang On for 1055 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,840 Tom Glenn Carney as an actor too, because I I I particularly 1056 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,960 like the writing for his storyline. 1057 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,680 Otto. Not a lot to say about Otto, but 1058 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,280 he has a very he's a more simple description to his arc for the 1059 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,160 season, a voice of reason despite being highly responsible 1060 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:32,800 for the situation in the 1st place. 1061 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,360 This is like, hey, I wanted to create this but not this. 1062 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,960 I wanted to create a more orderly version of this, which 1063 00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:41,360 maybe was foolish in the 1st place to think that was ever 1064 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,960 possible. Still, his arc is in a position 1065 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,080 of power, advising the king to in a box, and we don't even know 1066 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,760 who has him. That is also a very big turn, 1067 00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,120 right, Even with Glenn Hightower halfway through the season just 1068 00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,520 kind of telling us. Don't worry about it. 1069 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,800 He's Otto Hightower is a man of means, a man of, you know, he'll 1070 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,120 he'll give U.S. news when there's news to tell. 1071 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:04,920 I go. Will he? 1072 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,320 OK. So, yeah. 1073 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:12,040 So it's that is kind of weird that we all disliked Otto for 1074 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,280 his decisions, loved his acting. So now it's kind of like, man, 1075 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,560 these greens will be better off with Otto, right? 1076 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,040 Yeah, I, I wasn't a particular auto hater, right? 1077 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,760 Like, I think he made some mistakes, but I think usually 1078 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,720 his mistakes were more in his communication and his empathy 1079 00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:33,920 more so than the actual choice that was being made, if that 1080 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,320 makes sense. You know, I think sometimes he 1081 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,840 was making tough choices that I wish no one had to make. 1082 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,520 But that, you know, if you given that you are in this position 1083 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,760 where you have this responsibility for these people 1084 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,800 in this administration and etcetera, etcetera, then, well, 1085 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,160 sometimes, you know, you know, it may maybe there's some 1086 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,760 systemic problems that these choices have to be made in the 1087 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,120 1st place, right? But given that there's going to 1088 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,040 be, you know, a change of power, given that you're going to have 1089 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:07,000 these leaders decided based on order of birth, you know, given 1090 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,280 you're going to have that and the conflicts that come from it, 1091 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,360 think Otto's doing the best that he can. 1092 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,960 I, I, I wish, you know, going back into the roots of some of 1093 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,920 this, that through his life, he could have been fighting some of 1094 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,200 the sexism that was going to keep Rainier from being accepted 1095 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,800 instead of it being sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. 1096 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,240 So him deciding the men of the realm won't accept this. 1097 00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:30,000 So I need another plan. He could have decided how can I 1098 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,520 make the men of the realm accept this? 1099 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,640 You know that I think that's the real mistake that he made. 1100 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,360 But but that's not unique to Otto, right? 1101 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,320 That's not like some crazy mistake Otto made. 1102 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,680 That's almost every single character in the show, including 1103 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:43,640 most of the women are making that mistake. 1104 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,440 So but but it is hard to see him take the make these tough 1105 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,240 decisions. We don't see the internal grief 1106 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:52,480 that he has like Damon, like we we see Damon do some awful 1107 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,120 things and he seems cocky and arrogant about it. 1108 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,200 But it was revealed in this season that he had some some 1109 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,920 turmoil inside him. I bet Otto does too, and we 1110 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,880 would feel more for him if we saw that. 1111 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,600 Well, maybe his his course in prison might bring that out. 1112 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:07,720 We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. 1113 00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:10,200 That's interesting. And as I'll repeat, he this is 1114 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,520 not exactly a book plot. So it's one of the ones that has 1115 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,000 this particularly curious because we don't know what 1116 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,960 they're doing with it. Christian Cole. 1117 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,800 Yeah, we talked about him a little bit when we described 1118 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,120 Fabian's performance and he had one of the bigger turns. 1119 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,640 Like he's just a guy that a little bit like Aegon, but for 1120 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,800 different reasons. Cop is he doesn't have the the 1121 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,600 privilege and he's not the king and he's not a Targaryen. 1122 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:35,400 And his his upbringing was very different, but he goes from 1123 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,960 maybe a little too much power. He's given he's got a lover, 1124 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:45,240 which he's not supposed to have. And then he's plotting with Amon 1125 00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:48,240 and then becomes hand and then it just all reverses. 1126 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,440 He's he's a pretty effective leader. 1127 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,320 Morality aside, he does his job as a war leader pretty well in 1128 00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,120 the Crown lands and but then he's just traumatized by Rooks 1129 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,440 rest his his. This is a veteran whose entire 1130 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,480 view of war is flipped based on what he's seen. 1131 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,000 And this is not unrealistic. In fact it's very realistic. 1132 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,720 There are countless examples in real life of people who've been 1133 00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:14,760 in 50 or more battles. This is the 51st battle. 1134 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,080 Breaks them and their their nerve. 1135 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,400 There's trauma, it just piles up or something. 1136 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,880 Finally breaks them. Not unrealistic at all. 1137 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,880 And in this case, you at least have something very specific to 1138 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,920 point to as what was different in this battle than all the 1139 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,480 other battles you've been in. Clearly the Dragons. 1140 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,560 And then he starts. It goes downhill from there. 1141 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,800 Not only is he traumatized by Rooks Rest, he makes the mistake 1142 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,840 of thinking parading Melis's head and the capital is going to 1143 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,520 be a good thing, and that backfires. 1144 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,000 He doesn't. Aymond stops treating him like 1145 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,040 an ally and like a subordinate and he has his falling out with 1146 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,560 Allison. And then when he finally goes 1147 00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,800 back to the field, he goes, he's extremely fatalistic, just 1148 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,120 expects to die. Gives that brilliant speech that 1149 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,360 was really powerful, but also, as I said at the time, isn't 1150 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,440 exactly what you want to hear from a guy leading your army. 1151 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,160 I was like, jeez, this guy is already dead. 1152 00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,480 He's got one foot in the ground in the grave already. 1153 00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,160 But that's just a it. It was really well done. 1154 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,560 I thought this is a a big turn for his character, a big change. 1155 00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:19,560 It's a it's a compelling season long arc that goes from like 1156 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,000 this, this man with a lot of confidence and almost cockiness 1157 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,840 to a man who's just like, what is this life that we have? 1158 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,280 Like, like there's nothing or dust before the Dragons. 1159 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:31,360 Yeah, it was really, really good. 1160 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,680 You know, I think the, I think he was assured, he had a very 1161 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,120 assured quality in himself. You know, like he was sure of 1162 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,040 himself. And I think he still is, just in 1163 00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,520 a different way. Sure that they're screwed? 1164 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,160 Yeah, he's sure that they're marching to their annihilation. 1165 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,280 I think that he I suspect that he might already have been 1166 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,760 experiencing. I'm hesitant to use exactly PTSD 1167 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,960 but something like that. I don't think you should be 1168 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,880 hesitant at all, Sean. I think it is like, if you can't 1169 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,360 have PTSD from the things he's gone through, then what? 1170 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,600 What could you ever have it for? Like, yeah, go ahead. 1171 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,440 But yes. But I just think in those 1172 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:13,040 battles he was fighting, I think he was still disturbed by all 1173 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,720 the the the killing in general. Like he probably killed a lot of 1174 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,440 people, hit on his own, like his own storm plunged through the 1175 00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:25,040 heart of multiple people, but ordered the death of even more. 1176 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,760 You know, like telling 10,000 troops to attack 5000 troops is 1177 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,600 going to kill way more than he could do on his own and 1178 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,360 executed. Benny, which is different, 1179 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,160 that's killing someone kind of in cold blood. 1180 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,240 It's not the same as in the heat of battle. 1181 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:44,160 And I think he may have been throughout all that able to, I 1182 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,120 don't know what word to use, bottle up justify it, whatever 1183 00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,960 it is, because it's part of this bigger mission to protect the 1184 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,440 king and to protect the, the throne and, and the, the, the 1185 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,920 sort of legacy of the, the rule of the realm. 1186 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:03,200 There's this sort of bigger picture goal and a few thousand 1187 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,600 people might die, but in the end, we're going to have peace 1188 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,160 on the continent. But once that dragon just 1189 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,640 started burning people to death, he's like, whatever kind of 1190 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,720 justifications I had, whatever games I was playing in my mind 1191 00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,480 to make it OK and go out and kill people, all my fine 1192 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,240 endeavors, they just don't matter anymore. 1193 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,600 None of that matters anymore. It doesn't matter if I'm a good 1194 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,160 commander. I don't have control over who's 1195 00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,680 going to be king now. Like I'm just going through the 1196 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,880 motions and these Dragons, these gods are really deciding for 1197 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,840 everyone. And in the meantime, am IA mass 1198 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,080 murderer. Can I just say I'm a? 1199 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:39,480 Star Are we the baddies? It's. 1200 00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,360 Funny you say that. You say it, you know, you see, 1201 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,640 they call him Kingmaker, you know, like he didn't really make 1202 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,520 any of these kings. Not not not really. 1203 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,160 Not truly. Yeah, his his role wasn't any 1204 00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:58,440 bigger than Otto or Allison or yeah, but yeah, so we'll have to 1205 00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,800 see how that plays out for him. He's become pretty interesting. 1206 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,400 Definitely a lot more interesting than his book 1207 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,160 version I'd say. Elena is even more blatantly 1208 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,600 changed from her book version though, given these prophecies, 1209 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,480 which makes her a very interesting character. 1210 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,760 I've very much enjoy what they've done with her and look 1211 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:21,000 forward to more. Her season begins with her 1212 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,560 losing her son and walking in on Kristen Cole and Allison having 1213 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,240 sex. And maybe having stitched a 1214 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:34,560 burial shroud for her son in advance, she forgives Allison in 1215 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,920 a later scene, which we're still kind of wondering what that was 1216 01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,920 about or if it's still yet to come. 1217 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,120 Or do you think she forgives her now? 1218 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,400 Now, in retrospect, with seeing Allison's treason, do you think 1219 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,240 she forgave her for this, this act of. 1220 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,800 Treason. I hadn't thought of that one 1221 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:50,640 yet. Good call. 1222 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,320 Yeah, that's a really good candidate. 1223 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,520 It might be a multi layered, multi tiered forgiveness, but 1224 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,440 that's a good one. That's a really, that's maybe 1225 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,080 the best guess I've seen so far, yeah. 1226 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,480 Yeah, I mean that the treason hasn't played out 'cause we 1227 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,160 haven't seen how that will play out with regards to the. 1228 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,120 Last thing she does this season, Yeah. 1229 01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,240 Or less than any Greens do. Yeah, great call. 1230 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,960 At the time, like the the default for that was I forgive 1231 01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,840 you for a single Kristen, but but we so often and in fact, the 1232 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,960 beast beneath the board seems to keep having new things that it 1233 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,920 might have been applying to. I think that I forgive you too, 1234 01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,800 and I don't really even know how this is going to play out, of 1235 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:32,200 course, but Allison has still, in her own mind, decided to 1236 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,160 sacrifice her son. So whether or not it happens or 1237 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,000 how it happens, Helena still might forgive her for that if 1238 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,960 she's aware that Allison. Also, good point. 1239 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,600 Yeah, that's her. That's her brother, her husband. 1240 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,960 Yeah, the the father to her child. 1241 01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,520 So that is a pretty big deal. We also had the procession, the 1242 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,600 funeral, which she didn't like that, which we considered maybe 1243 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,560 that was something she was forgiving her for. 1244 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:53,800 She really didn't like doing that. 1245 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:58,360 She asked Eamon was it worth the cost and that's before we knew 1246 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,400 that she witnessed Rooks rest in her dreams or visions. 1247 01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,960 So she asked was it worth the cost when he was standing there 1248 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,720 looking at the throne. Now looking back on that scene 1249 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:10,600 she really did know what the cost was. 1250 01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,960 She had a fuller view of it than we could have been sure about at 1251 01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,360 the time. Now we also have her make this 1252 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,000 comment about her. One of her crickets Stop 1253 01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,920 singing. I'm not so sure about that. 1254 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,720 We got some decent guesses, but I wouldn't say any of those are 1255 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,080 like, oh, that's definitely it, but there's some good guesses. 1256 01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,040 I saw an interview with Fiesta Bomb where they gave her. 1257 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,640 There's a couple of the guesses they, they told her them and she 1258 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,920 was like, oh, I hadn't really, you know, she hadn't like she 1259 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,440 gave her, her answer was not about a prophecy. 1260 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:44,000 Her answer was no. Helena genuinely was upset that 1261 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,960 one of her crickets had stopped singing. 1262 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,360 That made her sad. Like it was she was being 1263 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:49,920 literal in that. It wasn't prophetic. 1264 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:51,680 It wasn't prophetic, is what she said. 1265 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,000 Not that she she said she'd like seeing the prophetic 1266 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,120 interpretations, but as an actress or whatever in that 1267 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,600 moment when she's performing, when she's like her read on. 1268 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,600 It is what is what she's saying that you know, so that's 1269 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,560 interesting. Well, every good red sewing 1270 01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:08,200 needs a red herring or green herring. 1271 01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:09,760 Is it a green herring? I don't know. 1272 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:15,520 So the it's it's pretty interesting to have an end of 1273 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,440 the season where the most peaceful character in the entire 1274 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,040 show probably is being dragged off to war. 1275 01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:27,120 Or he's trying to drag her off to war at the end, only for him 1276 01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,880 or her to confront him with in a way that he could have never 1277 01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,440 dreamt of being confronted. As we explained when we talked 1278 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,520 about Eamon. Meanwhile, Allison wants her to 1279 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:38,720 leave and whether they're going to get to or not or where they 1280 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,440 would even go. Again, we have no idea that we 1281 01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,880 talked about that with Allison and she appears in Damon's 1282 01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:44,400 dream, which is also pretty huge. 1283 01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:50,320 And if Damon and her ever come face to face, what? 1284 01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,360 What what would he say to her? What would she say to him? 1285 01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,680 Like, yeah, hey, there you are. I saw you in the dream. 1286 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,520 Like, when's the lot? Damon and Helena, have they ever 1287 01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,440 had a conversation? Certainly they have it on 1288 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,120 screen. I don't think they've even said 1289 01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,840 a word to each other on screen. Certainly not a conversation. 1290 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,720 But that would be a conversation to have. 1291 01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,800 Now, some of this is, again, this falls into the predictions 1292 01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,360 territory. But like half everything 1293 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,120 Helena's, you can't talk about Helena and not talk about the 1294 01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,400 future. It's like her own character is 1295 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,680 predictions and prophecies and stuff. 1296 01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:22,400 So, yeah, but the big change to her, I think, was how her role 1297 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,920 in the story changed a lot because she was a person that we 1298 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,680 would discuss, like, what are her prophecies mean? 1299 01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,240 But no one in the story is talking about them. 1300 01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,440 No one in the story has affected even the slightest by them. 1301 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,560 They just think she's weird. Like, OK, there's Helena being 1302 01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,760 weird again. Happy clap for her that that's 1303 01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,920 everybody's response to her. Or or Rainier, like Helena. 1304 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,640 Why would I target Helena? She's the sweetest one. 1305 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,840 Like, she's not a threat, but here at the climax in the final 1306 01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:52,960 episode of the season, she tells a prophecy, multiples arguably 1307 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,640 to her brother, revealing that she has this power now it's out 1308 01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,200 in the open. Who else is going to find out? 1309 01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:04,080 Who else is she going to tell? So that's a big ball of wax, a 1310 01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:10,280 big Pandora's box. Helena's box is opened, Digby 1311 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,560 Smollett says Helena's great. I don't buy that she doesn't 1312 01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:14,960 like riding her dragon though. She gives massive horse girl 1313 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,680 energy. No way would she not love dream 1314 01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:18,720 fire. Yeah, she does love flying in 1315 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,160 the book. But they have not shown us that 1316 01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,080 quality in her, and they've even made it seem as if she doesn't 1317 01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,600 like it in the show. And I, I think I agree with 1318 01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,920 people's assessment that it is a way to cut costs. 1319 01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,120 Yeah. And not film it. 1320 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,680 To cost cut. But I just I'm it makes me, I am 1321 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,920 disappointed. Let me still say there's a 1322 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:42,320 difference between not liking riding her dragon, which may or 1323 01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,600 may not be the case, they certain haven't showed it much. 1324 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,080 But there's there's not like riding her dragon and not 1325 01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,120 wanting to ride her dragon into battle to burn people to death. 1326 01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:51,680 They did make that distinction though. 1327 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,640 She did say like Rainier said, Helena does not like riding her 1328 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:57,640 dragon. It wasn't. 1329 01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:58,880 It had nothing to do with fighting. 1330 01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,960 Also she doesn't want to burn people, that's an even 1331 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:02,080 important. But no she just doesn't. 1332 01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:04,560 Like she's just not into her dragon, which is definitely 1333 01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:05,880 different from the book. She liked her dragon. 1334 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,400 However, even at this point in the story, in the book, she'd 1335 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,120 stop writing her dragon because she was so broken by blood and 1336 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,720 cheese that she'd stop. So it gets us to a similar 1337 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:15,320 place. She's she's still more likely to 1338 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:16,720 fly in the show than she was in the book. 1339 01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,160 At this point I would. Rather see her like now maybe 1340 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,120 with all of these losses and being alone, she might go 1341 01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,320 reconnect with her dragon. I don't know. 1342 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,840 She could end up at the, you know, she could by the end of 1343 01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,000 the show be close with her dragon as she was in the books. 1344 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,240 Like, you know, we talk all about how characters can grow or 1345 01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,680 regress or whatever, so we shouldn't assume that Helena is 1346 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,520 static and stagnant and will not at all do have changes. 1347 01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,520 Yeah, I I suspected that she might be, even though the show 1348 01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:47,000 didn't seem to be presenting her as someone who's going to ride 1349 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,840 off in a war on her dragon. I thought she might jump at the 1350 01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,400 chance to get revenge for her dead son. 1351 01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:53,640 Right. I thought there was a chance 1352 01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,440 that would happen, but when she didn't, I was happy. 1353 01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,080 I was happy. She's like, I'm not going to 1354 01:06:58,080 --> 01:06:59,640 burn anyone. I appreciated that. 1355 01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:04,120 And I get that might be frustrating maybe from a 1356 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,880 multiple levels, whether from the book or otherwise, that it's 1357 01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:10,080 crazy she wouldn't dig her dragon. 1358 01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:11,640 And I didn't quite read it that way. 1359 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,120 Maybe I just missed the line of dialogue. 1360 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,240 But one or the other, I do think it's reasonable for someone to, 1361 01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,440 even if you take it in a more realistic way, like someone 1362 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,400 might like horses. I like riding horses. 1363 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,800 I like my pet horse. I like to groom it and take care 1364 01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,520 of it and draw pictures of it. OK, get in your horse with a 1365 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,240 sword and go kill people. Hold on, I'm not doing that. 1366 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:31,160 Doesn't. Mean, I don't like, that's 1367 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:31,960 different. Yeah, yeah. 1368 01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,520 I would also point to, I think a comparison between Viserys and 1369 01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:38,760 Helena, who I like comparing them. 1370 01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:40,480 They kind of have some some similarities. 1371 01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,240 Kind of sad we never really got any moments with Viserys and 1372 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,480 Helena because I mean, they both have the other like hyper 1373 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,520 fixation interests. But Viserys, you know, was very 1374 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,760 uncomfortable with Valerian and talked about how it's a myth 1375 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,480 that we control these Dragons. And he was also kind of attuned 1376 01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,680 with dreams. And I don't know, I, I, I think 1377 01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,680 of Viserys's discomfort when I think of Helena there. 1378 01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:05,000 And so that resonates with me at least as much as I can be 1379 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:08,040 displeased with other parts. I kind of like there being 1380 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,160 another parallel between Viserys and Helena. 1381 01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:13,880 Yeah, I like that, too. That parallel is good, Digby 1382 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,479 Smallett also says. I imagined a Helena Damon is the 1383 01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,800 guy that cut that man's head off in the throne room. 1384 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,040 Yeah, he did kill Vaymond in front of everybody and. 1385 01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,880 I had, I was wondering like in in Damon's mind, like vice 1386 01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,640 versa. Like what what does he think of 1387 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:28,479 who Helena is? He's like, wait, that's like 1388 01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,840 that's Helena. Like like he probably has not 1389 01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,040 really thought much about her ever. 1390 01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:34,520 Like he recognizes. I don't know. 1391 01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:35,399 I. Because she's not. 1392 01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:37,399 Because, again, she doesn't ride her dragon very much. 1393 01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:38,800 He probably doesn't perceive her as a threat. 1394 01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:39,680 Yeah. Exactly. 1395 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,279 But like I know he he would know her face. 1396 01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:43,120 He would know who that. Is, yeah, yeah. 1397 01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,359 Yeah, that Digby's comment really made me think about like, 1398 01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:50,120 who is Damon to Helena? Who is Helena to Damon? 1399 01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:51,000 Yeah. What are their view of each 1400 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:51,479 other? Yeah. 1401 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,120 Damon doesn't even think much of his own daughter, who does ride 1402 01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,000 a dragon. So what in the world is he? 1403 01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,160 Thinking about how he's about to maybe have a second daughter 1404 01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,800 with a dragon, too. Hey, one that's actually about 1405 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,920 the size of his, unlike Baila's. Yeah. 1406 01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,479 So other members of the Greens that we aren't going to discuss, 1407 01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,000 but individuals. But I want to throw their names 1408 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,640 out there so we remember, you know, as a summary of who's on 1409 01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,880 their team. We got Thailand, we got Iron 1410 01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,720 Rod, we got Orwell, we got Gwain Hightower, we got Little 1411 01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,760 Princess Jahara, we got Sir Richard Thorne and whoever else 1412 01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:27,560 the Kingsguard are these days. I know there's been some 1413 01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:29,960 turnover with the Drinking's guard getting hired and fired 1414 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,800 and Eric and Arik and all that. So that's that's probably been 1415 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:35,600 some changes there, some names we haven't heard yet. 1416 01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,479 Prince Darren barely entering the the fray now with his dragon 1417 01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,160 Tasari and along with the Hightower army. 1418 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:47,720 And they also lost a few people now in terms of their allies, 1419 01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,080 who they have, obviously, I mentioned Prince Darren and 1420 01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,560 Tasari and with the Hightower armies that are on the March, 1421 01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,520 let's not forget they're a little bit delayed by their 1422 01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,280 engagement with reach armies that are not on their side, 1423 01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,480 because there's there's a portion of the reach that are 1424 01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:05,680 either sworn to rain era already, they kept their oath 1425 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:11,240 from before and or they're with the Bees buries because really, 1426 01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,560 what kind of overlord kills one of their own vassal Lords? 1427 01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,960 That's that's just that goes against a lot of tenets of honor 1428 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,120 and and the feudal system. So there's that's a very 1429 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,360 justifiable reason to turn on them and the tarlies, the 1430 01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,280 tarlies and bees berries aren't alone there in fighting against 1431 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:30,320 the the high towers. We don't know exactly which 1432 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:32,000 houses we have an idea from the books. 1433 01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:33,880 It might be slightly different in the show. 1434 01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:34,960 They haven't named all the houses. 1435 01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,520 We'll just leave that for now. Lannister pretty 1436 01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,200 straightforward. They've marched out of the West. 1437 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,920 They're now in the Riverlands last we see them with an army 1438 01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:47,400 and some lions. Yeah, the crown lands are on 1439 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,880 their side of the crown lands is pretty depleted thanks to rooks 1440 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,480 rest and all that, but they do have a few thousand men from 1441 01:10:53,480 --> 01:10:55,080 there that Kristin Cole is currently leading towards 1442 01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:56,760 Harrenhal. And now they have the Triarchy, 1443 01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:03,080 which as of the moment they set sail, the only note probably 1444 01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,280 Thailand sent a Raven, but that's the the IT may not have 1445 01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,440 even gotten there yet. So they aren't keep, they aren't 1446 01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:13,120 factoring in this big Navy that's now on their side, but 1447 01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,560 it's a pretty substantial boon to their 'cause even with the 1448 01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,640 long term set aside, as I mentioned, regardless of what 1449 01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,680 they might do, you know, a year from now having a hundred ships 1450 01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,240 or whatever that is coming to attack the Gullet where the 1451 01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,760 Valarian fleet is. Well, you can see why the Greens 1452 01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:35,200 would be enthused about that, especially because the the 1453 01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:36,800 Valarians don't even see it coming at this point. 1454 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:39,520 They keep talking about we're going to fight lions and krakens 1455 01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,040 and they don't mention the Triarchy. 1456 01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,960 Let's not forget, though, that there's a Baratheon in the mix 1457 01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:48,440 here. The Baratheons were like, yeah, 1458 01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:49,760 we married our daughter to Hammond. 1459 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,720 We haven't heard a thing from them. 1460 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,640 Isn't that interesting, Sean, What do you make of that? 1461 01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:55,440 Any, any. Like this is the guy that got so 1462 01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:57,600 mad about. Like, they can't just make me. 1463 01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:59,800 I'm not a dog to be called up to heal. 1464 01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,040 Remember? That's what Eamon almost said 1465 01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,720 the exact same thing when? When Lord Jason wanted him to 1466 01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,000 come escort their army. You know, that is an interesting 1467 01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,760 thought, or it's sparked several interesting thoughts. 1468 01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:14,720 One is even if they don't muster troops and join the battle, at 1469 01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,720 least they're not turning against you. 1470 01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,720 At least you're not defending against Storm's End, right? 1471 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,720 They are a a very geographically nearby entity that you don't 1472 01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,640 have to worry about ostensibly, but did Eamon marry that girl? 1473 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:30,160 You're right. It's a betrothal. 1474 01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:31,280 They're not married. She was too young. 1475 01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:32,080 She was too young. Yeah. 1476 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:36,160 OK, I, I, you didn't make me realize that nothing came from 1477 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:37,680 that. And so, you know, maybe that 1478 01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,120 betrothal's enough. But maybe once the battle starts 1479 01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,360 to happen, maybe if one of those Baratheon allies, you know, 1480 01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,360 someone at the Baratheon think of as an ally, but Eamon burns 1481 01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,480 their town down, that might change their tune. 1482 01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:50,400 Yeah. Yeah, so it's definitely a 1483 01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,560 situation to monitor. That's a lot of, it's a lot of 1484 01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:55,680 power that's not in the field yet. 1485 01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:57,480 It doesn't even appear to have been marshalled like there were, 1486 01:12:57,480 --> 01:12:59,360 there weren't Baratheon armies marching. 1487 01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,120 We saw a lot of armies marching and that's not, and that wasn't 1488 01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:03,600 one of them. We weren't necessarily expecting 1489 01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,120 them to, but it certainly is interesting. 1490 01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:07,720 They're a powerful region. They're not the biggest region, 1491 01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,840 but they're certainly not to be despised. 1492 01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:15,280 Now, another factor to consider is that Doran is independent, so 1493 01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,960 both the Reach and the Stormlands as having borders 1494 01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:23,080 with Dorn in a time where they're not part of the same 1495 01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,800 nation means they do have to worry about that. 1496 01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:28,400 Like pulling their troops elsewhere might give the Dornish 1497 01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,120 an opportunity. I mean, that's the last thing 1498 01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,960 they want is to let that happen. So that is at least a 1499 01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,960 consideration for the Baratheon. But that can't be everything 1500 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:37,440 that that certainly isn't the whole story. 1501 01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,800 Would you say the Dornish are a wild card? 1502 01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,000 Hey, wild card. Yes, good reference. 1503 01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:49,440 So let us run through real quick as well what the plots were for 1504 01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:51,440 the greens. I don't think we've covered most 1505 01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:55,680 of these in our discussions, but if you have folks reach out to 1506 01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,440 us if any of these plot lines you feel were need further 1507 01:13:58,440 --> 01:14:01,040 discussion or if you have questions about them, maybe it's 1508 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,320 a good reason for us to circle back at some point. 1509 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,400 And by the way, the the rest of the Reach, not only is it not 1510 01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:09,840 clear which are fighting for the blacks, there's other parts of 1511 01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:11,160 the Reach that are with the Greens that haven't been 1512 01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,080 specified yet too. So some of that will probably be 1513 01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,120 explained as these things work themselves out. 1514 01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,400 A lot of houses just haven't declared. 1515 01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,760 They're still kind of waiting to see what happens. 1516 01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,840 Like, I don't want to take a side until I can maybe join the 1517 01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:25,480 winner. And it's not clear who the 1518 01:14:25,480 --> 01:14:26,760 winner is. A lot of the houses probably 1519 01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:28,480 don't even know that Rainier has all these Dragons yet. 1520 01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:31,040 So like, all the more reason to just let things play out until 1521 01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:35,240 they have a full picture. OK, so there's the plot of 1522 01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,080 Allison and Kristen Cole's relationship, Aegon's crowning 1523 01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,320 Blood and Cheese and the rat catchers, Eric Ark, the Crown 1524 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:45,040 Lands campaign culminating in the trap of Rooks Rest. 1525 01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:47,840 The victory that was not a victory, I suppose. 1526 01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,080 Then following up the victory that was not a victory is the 1527 01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:52,680 celebration that was not a celebration. 1528 01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:56,400 Mele's head going through the streets, followed by Amon's 1529 01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:59,800 Regency where nearly every decision he makes is objected 1530 01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:01,880 to. But none of them are actually. 1531 01:15:02,440 --> 01:15:03,840 They all keep going. None of them. 1532 01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:07,560 No one actually stops him. Aegon's recovery and eventual 1533 01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:09,640 escape. That's obviously a developing 1534 01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,040 situation. The March on Harrenhal still 1535 01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:14,200 developing. Closure of gates and port 1536 01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:16,560 inspections, that's been going on. 1537 01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,080 But I wouldn't say that's peaked yet. 1538 01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:20,760 Like certainly people, it's getting worse and worse. 1539 01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,760 Every day it gets worse. The alliance of the Trierarchy 1540 01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,240 that's also a brand new. The burning of Sharp Point. 1541 01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:31,560 Amon's general escalating fury and fear which go together. 1542 01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,000 Is he going to burn more places? How else is he going to lash 1543 01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:36,320 out? Is he going to get control of 1544 01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,400 himself? I just look at this list of 1545 01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,440 leadership changes throughout the season for the Greens. 1546 01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:45,920 Like they're the party in power at least by virtue of holding 1547 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,680 the crown and the Iron Throne. But they cannot agree even who 1548 01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:53,480 is running things on their side. You got Otto out, Allison out, 1549 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:57,920 Aegon in and then out again. Larry's in and then out again, 1550 01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:03,440 Amond in and question Mark and now Allison's betrayal at the 1551 01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:05,400 end like on top of all that. So who knows? 1552 01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:09,200 Kristen Cole kind of out, too. Like he was. 1553 01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,040 Promoted ahead, but he went off to battle and Otto was called 1554 01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,080 in. He's to whatever extent he is, 1555 01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:18,680 maybe officially still Hand. He is not practically still Hand 1556 01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:20,800 so. The music they should have in 1557 01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:22,520 the council chamber is musical chairs. 1558 01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,240 You know, there is one of the little plot point that, you 1559 01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:29,960 know, maybe you guys don't even want to talk about too much 1560 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:34,160 because it could be potentially spoiler, but Aegon's dragon it 1561 01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,240 there seemed to be some ambiguity as to whether it was 1562 01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:42,080 dead and in Aegon said, I think. I I remain a Sunfire truther. 1563 01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:45,440 I don't think Aegon knows. I think he's going to be as 1564 01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:47,880 surprised as anyone that Sunfire's alive. 1565 01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:54,160 But again, because just the rule of television see a body, and I 1566 01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,400 think that's true here too. The here's one thing about if I 1567 01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,680 was going to nitpick a little that one way or the other, I 1568 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,680 think it would be better known. I think that more people would 1569 01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:07,600 have witnessed Aegon being burned by Amond in the battle. 1570 01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,040 Maybe not, but certainly people saw that dragon fall and the 1571 01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,920 clearing in the woods and there would either be reports of it 1572 01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:19,880 crawling away or reports of people, you know, the the new. 1573 01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,120 It would be like someone discovering gold, like there are 1574 01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:23,960 all this dragon scale and dragon bone. 1575 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:25,960 There'd be value to it. People would be making weapons 1576 01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:28,240 out of it or something. There would be some sort of like 1577 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:34,120 a spurn to the greens that like we've got your dragon or, or I, 1578 01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,200 I don't know, I feel like some story would bubble forth from 1579 01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:38,880 that, whether the dragon was dead or not. 1580 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,280 We haven't heard anything so. Yeah, it is interesting to see. 1581 01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:42,920 There might be more to it. You're absolutely right. 1582 01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:48,520 So that's the greens. I think there's certainly some 1583 01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,320 more nuance we could have gone on there, but I think those are 1584 01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,160 the high points. Those are the characters. 1585 01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,480 Those are where they stand in terms of the war. 1586 01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,200 So yeah, hit us up if if you, if anything else you want us to 1587 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:02,080 cover with regards to that, but we'll call it there for the 1588 01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,880 greens for now. I'll move on to the blacks in a 1589 01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,600 minute. Want to shout out our good 1590 01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,720 friends over at Magic Mind. I'm really enjoying their mental 1591 01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,000 performance shots. It has gotten me through the 1592 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:14,680 season. We have so much work that we 1593 01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:16,240 have to do during the season. It's fun work. 1594 01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,440 We love covering the show, but it does get a bit hectic doing 1595 01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:22,280 several episodes a week. A share has huge amounts of 1596 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:24,440 editing to do. I have lots of writing to do, 1597 01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:28,840 and that can really be taxing. You know, it's a it's a lot of 1598 01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:31,640 time, it's a lot of thinking. I know a lot of you drink coffee 1599 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:33,720 and so this is like, you're like, Oh yeah, I'm so used to 1600 01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,200 this type of thing, but I have never been a caffeine drinker or 1601 01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,360 coffee or anything like that. So for me, it's been really nice 1602 01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:44,000 to have my routine of, you know, I get up, I I make my drink with 1603 01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,800 my magic mind in it and I sit at my desk and I drink it and I 1604 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,240 start my work day and it is, it works for me. 1605 01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:52,160 And again, if you're, if you're a long term caffeine drinker, 1606 01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:53,920 yeah, of course, that's how it works. 1607 01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,280 That's how it works. I had never experienced that. 1608 01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:57,720 I don't, I don't know. I had it. 1609 01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,120 It doesn't have much caffeine in it, but it does have a little 1610 01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,440 and it uses other ingredients to stimulate your brain. 1611 01:19:03,440 --> 01:19:05,760 And some of these are long term. We've done research on a lot of 1612 01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:10,000 the ingredients and several of them have had pretty rigorous 1613 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:12,480 testing and definitely the claims are real. 1614 01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:15,520 You get, there's a few of them that actually give long term 1615 01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,040 benefits of memory and concentration and focus. 1616 01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:23,240 These are peer reviewed studies. No woo present here my friends. 1617 01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,760 And personally I can vouch for it having helped. 1618 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:30,080 I can tell when I've been on it for a while, it starts to build 1619 01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,400 up and then I'm I'm able to wake up a little bit earlier, maybe 1620 01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,880 focus a little bit longer. Maybe my attention span lasts a 1621 01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:39,160 little a little deeper into the evening than it might otherwise. 1622 01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:43,840 Hard to say exactly, but absolutely I can tell it's 1623 01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:49,600 helping out and you all can get your own little sample pack by 1624 01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:54,760 going to magicmine.com/VIP. How trial? 1625 01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,800 That's VIPHOW trial HOW? Of course, History of Westeros 1626 01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:03,320 to get 3 bottles of magic Mind they're this size, look at how 1627 01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:07,160 nice they are and you can start your morning or your afternoon 1628 01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:11,320 if you are a night person. With one, and then two and then 1629 01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:12,680 three and see how it goes for you. 1630 01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:16,760 And if you like it, well, then you can subscribe and get the 1631 01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:18,440 full benefit. Bottoms up. 1632 01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:25,480 That's good. Now my mind is more magical. 1633 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,360 That's right friends, go to magicmind.com/VIP How trial, get 1634 01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:33,280 your three free bottles and see how it works for you. 1635 01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,560 Also, we've been having lots of fun over on our Twitch account, 1636 01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,800 our Twitch channel twitch.tv/history of Westeros 1637 01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:46,600 and big news, the dragon content is coming this week. 1638 01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:50,920 In fact, they have added Dragons to the code. 1639 01:20:51,440 --> 01:20:54,120 So we'll be starting a new campaign, either Blackfyre or 1640 01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,000 Targaryen, and playing with Dragons. 1641 01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,480 I have no idea what to expect. They had Dragons in the earlier 1642 01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:01,720 version of Crusader Kings 2. Those were fun, but this is 1643 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,960 crusader kings three much better much more developed, much better 1644 01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:07,400 graphics. So I don't know what to expect, 1645 01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:08,400 but I know it's going to be awesome. 1646 01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:12,560 So come check us out at twitch TV dot history of westeros every 1647 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:16,040 Friday at 6:00 PM. We stream and my streams have 1648 01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:18,960 been getting longer and longer as we get deeper into the game 1649 01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:21,320 it. Was five hours on Friday night. 1650 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,600 Aziz just just couldn't stop being Renly the Beautiful. 1651 01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,320 I was Renly. Yeah, I was Renly. 1652 01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,160 Renly somehow had like 10 children with Marjorie. 1653 01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:35,080 This is he also had a a little side piece man, but you know, he 1654 01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:39,240 needed to father heirs. We finished that stream off by 1655 01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:44,160 becoming Daenerys invaded and went to war with Robert because 1656 01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:45,440 Robert was still king at this point. 1657 01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:47,040 And this is obviously a different timeline. 1658 01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,520 And Stannis was still alive as as the Prince of Dragonstone. 1659 01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,520 And so we just said, hey, Danny versus Robert, this is our time 1660 01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,440 to declare independence. So the king I became the new 1661 01:21:56,440 --> 01:22:00,960 Storm King, an independent nation, after Danny won and 1662 01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,320 defeated Robert. Funny thing, she defeated 1663 01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:05,560 Robert. Robert's still her heir because 1664 01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:10,160 she can't have kids. And so I seduced Daenerys with 1665 01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,040 my incredible, overwhelming charisma. 1666 01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:15,680 Renly has the highest diplomacy score I've ever seen on a 1667 01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:17,800 character. So he just befriended her and 1668 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,400 charmed her and bedded her, even though he's not into women. 1669 01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,200 And so that that is hopefully going to help him keep his 1670 01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,120 Kingdom independent. Although we're done with that 1671 01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:27,160 season, done with that now that we're going to start over and 1672 01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:28,440 play with Dragons, I bet it was a good story. 1673 01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:31,800 Does Renly always have that high diplomacy stat or just this 1674 01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:33,840 timeline that you're in or? He is. 1675 01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:37,280 He's born with a lot of natural talent in that regard, and I 1676 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:38,440 developed it. Yeah, he's born. 1677 01:22:38,440 --> 01:22:41,120 He's like being good looking, helps with charisma, and then he 1678 01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:44,360 also just has some basic stats that help with that. 1679 01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,480 Like he's got a good diplomacy stat to start with. 1680 01:22:47,480 --> 01:22:49,840 And then, yeah, I just did a lot of things to to boost it even 1681 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,120 more. The five year Franco should be 1682 01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:55,760 really high in that. Yeah, yeah, sure. 1683 01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:59,920 Christian Cole anyway, met. Fan man says you all are great. 1684 01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:01,960 Also, can I get your current guesses on where The Four 1685 01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:05,360 Seasons of Hot D end? You can get that in a different 1686 01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:07,040 episode. We are going to do that, but we 1687 01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,280 can't do it today because Sean is unsullied. 1688 01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:13,080 He doesn't know the end. It would be kind of interesting. 1689 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:14,440 I don't know if it's going to be long. 1690 01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:16,360 I would say Sean shouldn't do it, but I would be kind of 1691 01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,360 interested in Sean as someone who's unselling, who doesn't 1692 01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,640 know where he think he thinks it'll end, what he thinks would 1693 01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:24,560 be the ending. If you got him to do it every 1694 01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:26,040 time you can, but you want to do it now, you could. 1695 01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:29,360 OK, so Matt fan man, we are going to talk about that. 1696 01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:32,800 That's going to be a topic of discussion in a week or two very 1697 01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:34,200 soon. Well, not probably not next 1698 01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:38,600 week, but before, before too long that we'll cover that. 1699 01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:40,200 But we got to do it on a day Sean isn't here. 1700 01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,760 So for now, we'll tease it by letting Sean take a few guesses. 1701 01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:44,200 These are obviously a little bit more random. 1702 01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:46,480 Again, Sean has not read the Dance of the Dragons. 1703 01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:49,000 He doesn't know how it actually ends, so this is pure guesswork 1704 01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:50,240 based on what you've seen so far. 1705 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:53,080 I would say, Sean, I would like to know, maybe it's the same 1706 01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:56,360 thing, but one, what your ACT, what your guess is what you 1707 01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:59,760 think is reasonable for what it could be and maybe two, what you 1708 01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,320 want it to be. Maybe those are the same thing. 1709 01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:05,200 But I I just want to give two those are two different things 1710 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,040 potentially. Let me start by saying that I 1711 01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:09,560 thought it was going to be three seasons. 1712 01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,240 Only in this past couple weeks have I realized that it's going 1713 01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:14,880 to be Four Seasons. And I thought that next season 1714 01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,120 was just going to be all this sort of conflict and battles 1715 01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:20,880 that have been built up. We're going to play out through 1716 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:23,640 the season. And I thought that it might have 1717 01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,320 sort of a tragic end with, you know, an Ozymandias type of 1718 01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:30,720 like, you know, someone wins and they're ruling over ashes. 1719 01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,680 You know, all their friends and family and allies are all dead, 1720 01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:35,040 but you're a king. Good job. 1721 01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:36,360 You got what you wanted. Or queen. 1722 01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,480 But knowing it's going to be Four Seasons makes me think 1723 01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:44,960 there must be whole new plot lines that are going to rise up 1724 01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,440 because it's hard for me to think how it's really even going 1725 01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:52,360 to be close with Renera having as many Dragons as she does. 1726 01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:58,800 So I wonder if through this next season, maybe one or two of the 1727 01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,040 new dragon riders doesn't cooperate with her or turns the 1728 01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:03,680 other side. Or maybe they just get killed. 1729 01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,560 Maybe they they make mistakes or they don't have the experience 1730 01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:11,080 and Eamon takes them out. Maybe I, as we just brought up 1731 01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:15,880 the The Reason awards, yeah, maybe the Storm Lords do get 1732 01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:20,480 upset by something that Raniero does and, and join the fray. 1733 01:25:20,480 --> 01:25:25,080 And I guess I don't know, I, I, I'm kind of wondering if the 1734 01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:28,280 Baratheons might have some dragon rider blood in them, 1735 01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:29,320 right? Because wasn't the first 1736 01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,800 Baratheon ostensibly Aegon and Conqueror's half brother or 1737 01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:33,560 something? So. 1738 01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:36,600 It's been a while, but yes, yeah, yeah. 1739 01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,240 And there's been, you know, re infusion here and there, but 1740 01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:41,480 yeah, they don't have it. They don't have it recent, but 1741 01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:44,040 they do have it, yeah. So, you know, maybe there's some 1742 01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,560 potential for somehow they claim a dragon, maybe the war somehow 1743 01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:52,240 drags on for a long time and I, I maybe they like do another 1744 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:55,680 time jump. Drag on for a long time, get it 1745 01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:58,560 bro I. Wish I could take credit for 1746 01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:02,360 having done that on purpose, but yeah, I, I, I just put me on the 1747 01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:04,760 spot. I, you know, I, I, I have a hard 1748 01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:06,000 time thinking of how it might go. 1749 01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,800 I guess the the one of the thought maybe is it the four 1750 01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:13,080 season or a large chunk of the four season is how it plays out. 1751 01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:16,600 Maybe at the end of the third season someone has won. 1752 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:20,960 But knowing what's important to George, haven't listened to so 1753 01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,360 much of what he says or just observing how he writes. 1754 01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,920 I think about this all the time for the main series, the main 1755 01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,920 song of Ice and fire series. I have a hard time envisioning 1756 01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:32,360 how it will quote UN quote in because let's just say like 1757 01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:36,600 Danny is Queen or John is or Stan is or whoever. 1758 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,480 Who has a better story than Bran the Broken? 1759 01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:41,840 Yeah. Who has a better story than 1760 01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:45,200 Aegon the Broken, Right. That's what Sean was gonna say. 1761 01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,680 You're leaning up to say the end of the show. 1762 01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,640 You envision Aegon is on the wooden throne and he is ruling 1763 01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:53,440 you. Who has a better story? 1764 01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:55,320 That's what you're saying. Thank you. 1765 01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:01,520 I just sort of forgot that brand has a better story. 1766 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:07,320 Whoever in the Song of Ice and fire wins, if you will, who gets 1767 01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:11,200 the throne first of all, there's all kinds of other plot lines 1768 01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:13,560 and characters that we care about that aren't connected to 1769 01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:15,720 who gets the throne. Like, I don't know, Arya or 1770 01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:19,800 Sandor their their how their life plays out isn't real 1771 01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:22,280 dependent on who the the monarch is. 1772 01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:26,080 And and also it's not going to perfectly whatever you might 1773 01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:32,000 think of as a victory for Sansa or Arya or in or all these 1774 01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,960 different characters. It's not going to perfectly time 1775 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,280 with Danny takes the Iron Throne. 1776 01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,560 Like these things are going to happen on different timelines. 1777 01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:43,800 And I just don't see how George is going to perfectly tie all 1778 01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:47,400 this up when what I think matters most to him and maybe me 1779 01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:49,520 too, is what do they do as the monarch? 1780 01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,680 John or Danny or whoever, whoever wins if it's Renera or 1781 01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:54,720 Aegon comes back or Laris is a puppet. 1782 01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:59,120 But like what do they do? How do they reunite the realm? 1783 01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:00,880 How do they manage going forward? 1784 01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,000 Which Dragons live? Are they still a threat if 1785 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:07,200 Corliss's fleet gets destroyed by the Triarchy is there? 1786 01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:12,720 I feel like whoever wins this battle is just the beginning of 1787 01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:16,640 a news story that maybe matters more than who wins this battle. 1788 01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:19,200 Like that's why we care about who wins this battle because we 1789 01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:21,880 care about how they will rule in the wake of it. 1790 01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:25,840 And so that's what I would most like is for season season three 1791 01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:28,640 to be a bunch of battle action and someone quote UN quote wins. 1792 01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,720 And the season 4 is what they do with the victory. 1793 01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,840 And there's not a single battle or fight scene. 1794 01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:36,280 And the whole thing is just a straight political intrigue 1795 01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,920 drama. I I do imagine that, yeah, 1796 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,560 season three will probably have the most battles of season 4. 1797 01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:43,880 We'll probably have fewer than season three. 1798 01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:48,520 That's probably true. Not just because not not purely 1799 01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,440 based on like the books or whatever, but that's just kind 1800 01:28:50,440 --> 01:28:54,520 of how it seems to seems to that would be a reasonable way to do 1801 01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:56,040 it. Like this big season three be 1802 01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:58,360 the action one and four have a little more of that than the 1803 01:28:58,360 --> 01:28:59,080 aftermath. Yeah. 1804 01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:01,680 That's a pretty good guess though, Sean, I like overall, I 1805 01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:05,880 mean, hard to argue with that. It's a little bit like you said, 1806 01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:07,880 a little bit of what you expect mixed with a little bit of what 1807 01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:09,040 you want. Yeah. 1808 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,240 Yeah, I will refrain from commenting further though, 1809 01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,320 because obviously I have too much advance knowledge on, but 1810 01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,400 although some of that could turn out to be wrong, I mean, I 1811 01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,760 that's one thing I always say is that yes, I want it to stick to 1812 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:25,280 the books, but I like it when they do good things that aren't 1813 01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,280 in the books 'cause I want to have different. 1814 01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:29,680 I don't want two identical stories. 1815 01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:31,920 You know Kevin, different versions is pretty fun. 1816 01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:36,400 Anyway, Books Immersed says. Do you have plans for a 1817 01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:39,280 potential Dragons and their Riders Breakdown episode later 1818 01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:41,640 in the offseason? We I've thought about doing 1819 01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,480 something like that and it would make sense to do that. 1820 01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:49,120 So it's a good suggestion. We'll certainly consider it, 1821 01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:50,800 especially since it's something I've considered before. 1822 01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:55,760 But in general, the best way to suggest episodes for us is we 1823 01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,840 have a lot of polls on our Patreon that we have you guys 1824 01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:01,760 participate in. We've we drop a lot of topics 1825 01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:03,040 and you'll pick the ones you like the best. 1826 01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:05,000 So that's often how some of our episodes get made. 1827 01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,200 So I think if we were to do some polling on some hot D related 1828 01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:13,200 topics later in the year that this would be one of the ones 1829 01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:16,120 that would be on such a pole. So maybe your time to sign up 1830 01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:18,000 and join so you can participate in such voting. 1831 01:30:18,440 --> 01:30:21,880 Otherwise, yeah, we'll still make episodes regardless. 1832 01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:25,440 OK, so let's talk. Before we get back and talk 1833 01:30:25,440 --> 01:30:28,520 about the Blacks and their similar setup that we just did 1834 01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:31,840 with the Greens, let's describe our overall thoughts on the 1835 01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:33,560 season. I know some of this we've said 1836 01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:38,200 already, but I want to kind of focus on that for a minute or 1837 01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:40,760 two here for each of us. So Sean, again, I will start 1838 01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:44,480 with you, give us your overall thoughts on the season, maybe 1839 01:30:44,480 --> 01:30:47,680 compare a little bit to season one and maybe to what you expect 1840 01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,640 for the future or maybe how it how you think it's going to fit 1841 01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:53,800 in the long term and whatever else you want to say, fire away. 1842 01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:56,640 I, I loved it. I, I loved the first season and 1843 01:30:56,640 --> 01:30:59,600 the season I would have a hard time picking one over the other. 1844 01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:04,200 I think that this season I, I, you know, I will say last season 1845 01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:06,800 that probably the biggest, the biggest action sequence I can 1846 01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:08,880 remember anyway, was Damon on the step stones. 1847 01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:10,960 And I found myself kind of rolling my eyes at that. 1848 01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:13,960 Whereas this one was the dragon battle scene, which I was just 1849 01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:17,880 completely enthralled with. So from an action perspective, 1850 01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:21,520 which, you know, a lot of people were frustrated with how little 1851 01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,560 there is, but I'm not, I'm totally satisfied and I overall 1852 01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:26,960 like the action from this season better than last season. 1853 01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,280 I think I do like that last season, but you know, just 1854 01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:34,000 having a couple extra episodes, you got to fill in a little more 1855 01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,800 back story. And even if even with the time 1856 01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:39,200 jumps, I so I was totally fine with those time jumps. 1857 01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,680 I think the stuff that went on in between those times, time 1858 01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:44,680 jumps probably would not have been enough to fill interesting 1859 01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:46,040 episodes. It would have been like little 1860 01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:47,720 plot lines that have to come and go. 1861 01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:52,680 It's hard to connect what happens between age 15 and 17 1862 01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:56,960 that doesn't have world implications into the main 1863 01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:58,680 storyline. It makes sense to me how they 1864 01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:02,600 manage that, but this season didn't seem to have much need 1865 01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:05,600 for time jumps. And if anything, I appreciate 1866 01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:09,720 they kind of spent a lot of time on certain aspects, which was 1867 01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,440 mostly, you know, character development and, and, and maybe 1868 01:32:12,440 --> 01:32:13,960 some world building. Yeah. 1869 01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:16,120 I, I, I mean, I, I feel like I've said a million different 1870 01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:20,280 things get in the details, but for a sort of an overview, I, 1871 01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:22,600 I'm just blown away with the production. 1872 01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:26,160 There have been a few moments this season where I had to kind 1873 01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,120 of like, you know, think how I could justify something like, 1874 01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:31,040 you know, the idea of the queen sneaking around. 1875 01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,200 But I think it was, I think I can find ways in my mind to 1876 01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:37,200 imagine how that would play out. I think if they'd given us 20 1877 01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:40,680 minutes worth of like negotiations and subterfuge and 1878 01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:43,320 stick through tunnels and some spy character, what I think they 1879 01:32:43,320 --> 01:32:45,520 could have set that up in a way that we would have swallowed 1880 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:47,840 more easily. And given that I can swallow it 1881 01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:50,920 easily and it's worth it because I think those interactions were 1882 01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:54,120 great. I I, I love this sort of 1883 01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,880 journey, the sort of mystical journey that Damon went through 1884 01:32:57,880 --> 01:33:01,600 and and I I believe the results of it, if you will, Like I I'm 1885 01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:06,040 more sold on his commitment to Ranira and his his regrets for 1886 01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:07,640 mistake that he's made in the past. 1887 01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:09,520 He was a character I was really frustrated with the first 1888 01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,000 season. This season, I'm arguably he 1889 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:14,320 might be less entertaining. He might there might be a for 1890 01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:17,440 me, at least there might be a little less love to hate part of 1891 01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:18,720 him. Yeah, but there might be. 1892 01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:20,400 Disliking him as part of the fun, yeah. 1893 01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:23,600 Right, yeah, I might support him a little bit more. 1894 01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,440 And some of the characters I'm I'm almost afraid for what's 1895 01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:29,960 going to happen to Kristen Cole. Not not just afraid for his 1896 01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:33,880 life, but afraid for like how broken of a person he's going to 1897 01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:35,720 become. Allison the same thing. 1898 01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,760 I I don't know, I feel like I've heard some people say nothing 1899 01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:40,440 happened in season. Like what are you? 1900 01:33:40,440 --> 01:33:42,880 What show are you watching? Like I can't. 1901 01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:44,960 That's the take I really don't understand. 1902 01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:47,120 Yeah. Yeah, and list all the things 1903 01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:48,840 that have happened. It's crazy how much has 1904 01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,280 happened, like the shifts in power and power dynamics and, 1905 01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:56,440 and the roles that people have and you know, the overall like 1906 01:33:56,440 --> 01:34:00,160 in the beginning, feel like how can the blacks possibly win? 1907 01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:05,920 I just kept ringing in my ear when Otto said Aegon has all the 1908 01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,560 every symbol of power is in our hands, right? 1909 01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:14,600 And now, not so much. Yeah, except for the Dragons. 1910 01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:19,320 Yeah, it you may even maybe the counterpoint is when, when 1911 01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:22,920 Cersei told Littlefinger power is power, you know, all of a 1912 01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:24,320 sudden she has all these Dragons. 1913 01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:26,680 Like we don't care what sword you're caring or who put the 1914 01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:28,800 crown in your head. You can't do anything about our 1915 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,080 Dragons. Now there's a little bit of 1916 01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:32,800 that, which makes it harder for me to think how it's going to go 1917 01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,640 to Four Seasons, which makes me realize, Oh well, how much more 1918 01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:38,920 could happen with all these different characters. 1919 01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:42,600 And it, you know, if you just want to see who wins the battle, 1920 01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:44,440 we probably all need to watch like 2 episodes. 1921 01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:47,240 But if you want to understand the people who went through 1922 01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,640 these battles and why and how it affected them, then that's what 1923 01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:53,360 The Soul Show is for. And, and I love it. 1924 01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:57,560 I love 99.9% of it. Well said, Sean. 1925 01:34:57,560 --> 01:34:58,840 Thanks for that. That's really good. 1926 01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:01,000 I appreciate that. Shaya, what about you? 1927 01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:04,040 What are your takes here? I agree there's a lot of what 1928 01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:07,560 Sean said and I like looking at it in context of of season one 1929 01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:10,520 and I like trying to think about how it will be in context of the 1930 01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:13,160 whole show. And it's hard to to say for some 1931 01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:16,320 things the jury is still out. Things that didn't resonate hard 1932 01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:18,480 for me. I I still have hopes that for 1933 01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:21,960 example, even though I got comical, that Reyna still had 1934 01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,680 not actually become Nettles and tamed sheep's tailor by the end. 1935 01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,360 Like I found that amusing pacing wise, but by the time the show 1936 01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:32,680 ends and I've seen that arc play out, I might look at that much 1937 01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:34,280 differently. I'd like to think, you know what 1938 01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:36,600 I mean. And I, I think you know, and, 1939 01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:40,680 and comparing it to season one, I am happy to not just have time 1940 01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:44,960 jumps and changing actors and I I'm happy to be settled with the 1941 01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:48,240 cast and, and, and character we have now. 1942 01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:53,160 So I, I think I liked season two more than season one in a lot of 1943 01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:57,800 ways, a lot of ways. I think maybe my complaints 1944 01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:02,080 about season two were like, I think the things I disliked in 1945 01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:06,160 season 2, I disliked more in season 2 than in season one, Yet 1946 01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:08,600 I, I still liked season two more. 1947 01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:12,800 I, I would say, and again, that that does a lot of that really 1948 01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:16,680 does come down to how they're handling some of the dragon seed 1949 01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:19,120 plotline stuff. And that isn't just about the 1950 01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:21,960 the nettles Reyna stuff, because I do think it would have been 1951 01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:26,240 more effective if we had been following some red herrings, you 1952 01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:28,560 know, red dragon, you know, I think if we had been following 1953 01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:32,760 some dragon seeds that didn't get a dragon, I think it would 1954 01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:34,960 have been a more effective episode. 1955 01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,840 So that comes down to pacing, what characters they feature. 1956 01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:40,440 I would like to see even more small folk. 1957 01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:43,280 I saw in the chat people talked about how they felt the show 1958 01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:47,200 really kind of focuses more on the main three and doesn't let 1959 01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:50,480 the show be the ensemble cast that it really is. 1960 01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:54,200 And I felt that I, there were moments with, I mean, I, I 1961 01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:58,320 Bayla, for example, who got a strong scene with Coralise, but 1962 01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:02,240 who I still regularly felt like she was kind of just there in 1963 01:37:02,240 --> 01:37:05,600 the background gassing up people. 1964 01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:08,240 She was gassing up Jace and Coralise both. 1965 01:37:08,240 --> 01:37:11,480 I didn't really feel that it was about Bayla as much. 1966 01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:15,320 And I, I don't know, I found some disappointments with 1967 01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:18,400 certain characters that I was really excited to dig into Bayla 1968 01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:22,480 and Reyna both Elena that all of the kid generation. 1969 01:37:22,480 --> 01:37:27,640 And I don't know, I, I felt that they still felt that they had to 1970 01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:30,120 focus on Rainier Allison to Damon. 1971 01:37:30,480 --> 01:37:33,920 And I don't think they really had to. 1972 01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,120 I think they felt they had to. And I don't know, maybe I was 1973 01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:39,640 more negative than I meant to. My point is, I like the season 1974 01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:42,920 more than season one. I had higher hopes for how they 1975 01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,640 would handle certain characters, but I was pleasantly surprised 1976 01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:48,480 by how much I liked how they handled other things. 1977 01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:50,640 I think you would maybe summarize some of that by saying 1978 01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:52,480 it had higher highs and lower lows. 1979 01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:54,640 Yeah, that's kind of how that's the higher. 1980 01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,520 Highs and lower lows for me, but I still agree with Sean. 1981 01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:01,400 I liked the action in this season far more than the action 1982 01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:03,640 in season one. Yeah, Rooks Rest was better than 1983 01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:04,800 anything in season one as far as battle. 1984 01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:06,640 Like Sean said, yeah, the battle, this is the Stepstones 1985 01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,280 battle wasn't anywhere near as cool as Rooks Rest. 1986 01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:11,640 I would agree with a lot of what you all said. 1987 01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:15,400 I will be more critical when we do a book to show episode, which 1988 01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:17,200 is next week. So when we talk about 1989 01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:20,360 adaptational changes, you'll see me with a lot more criticisms of 1990 01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:22,360 particular details. But I'm giving my thoughts as a 1991 01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:26,760 whole and I'm trying not to judge it by the book at all. 1992 01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:29,520 I want to separate that concept. I want to judge the show as a 1993 01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:32,800 stand alone thing and separately judge it as an adaptation. 1994 01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:36,200 I don't want those things to be contained in one analysis. 1995 01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:37,880 So I think those things are best left separate. 1996 01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:42,880 So yeah, strengths of season one that Season 2 didn't have are 1997 01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:47,920 it's a little clearer storyline. Paddy Considine's presence was 1998 01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:49,680 was missed a little bit. He was such a strong part of 1999 01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:51,360 season one. Only having a little bit of him 2000 01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:54,080 in season 2 was like, oh, well, they lost an important 2001 01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:55,800 character. It's a big deal when you lose a 2002 01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:57,480 major actor that was just doing so well. 2003 01:38:57,760 --> 01:38:59,080 Obviously we knew that was happening. 2004 01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:01,360 He was dead. So it wasn't like, Oh my God, 2005 01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:04,080 where's Paddy Considine? And I would also agree with the 2006 01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:06,640 the way I summarized Ashea's point would also describe how I 2007 01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:08,120 feel about it. I think it did have higher highs 2008 01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:11,280 and lower lows, Yeah, I think some of the some of the weaker 2009 01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:14,320 moments of the entire show or the season, certainly the fact 2010 01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:16,680 that it was shorter is is a negative. 2011 01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:20,320 It's not a good thing, right? Having two fewer episodes isn't 2012 01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:22,520 good. But yeah, the the timeline's a 2013 01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:24,880 lot easier to follow, even though they probably took a few 2014 01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:29,520 liberties with with distance and and travel times is what? 2015 01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,320 I think of with Aegon's. Healing Aegon is healing kind of 2016 01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:32,960 fast. Sure. 2017 01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:36,640 It's that Targaryen blood. Yeah, that's that's what it's 2018 01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:38,320 all about. He's built different. 2019 01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:41,080 So they don't and not having time jump like time jumps was a 2020 01:39:41,080 --> 01:39:43,120 really difficult thing to have to manage and they did it really 2021 01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,360 well. But just not having to do time 2022 01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:47,520 jumps, it's just kind of better, right? 2023 01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:53,560 So I do appreciate that and I think that it's hard to judge 2024 01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:56,800 like we can judge season one more now that we have Season 2 2025 01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:00,840 'cause it we saw what it set up. So it's hard to fully judge 2026 01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:03,960 Season 2 without season three to see what events it actually set 2027 01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:05,200 up. If it pays those off really 2028 01:40:05,200 --> 01:40:07,400 well, season 2's going to look better in retrospect. 2029 01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:10,400 And if season three is a kind of a bummer, it'll make Season 2 2030 01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:11,720 look even worse in retrospect too. 2031 01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:14,040 So I think these things are a little bit tied to each other, 2032 01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:17,920 especially when they specifically are setting up the 2033 01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,240 next season. Which both of these did you 2034 01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:21,360 know? Of course, every season sets up 2035 01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:22,760 the next season. That's that's always how it 2036 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:26,160 goes. But this season particularly has 2037 01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:28,680 a lot of set up. And so we're going to a lot of 2038 01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:32,640 that's needs to be waited on to see how the payoff comes. 2039 01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:38,480 OK, let's move on to a few houses and powers that are 2040 01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:42,080 undeclared, meaning they aren't on either side right now. 2041 01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:43,840 And that is potentially important. 2042 01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:47,000 Like Sean, you brought up the possibility of other plot lines, 2043 01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,000 some other players that might shift the big picture, and this 2044 01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:53,080 is where some of that could potentially come from. 2045 01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:56,720 We have Dalton Greyjoy, he's been name dropped several times 2046 01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:00,080 throughout both season one and season 2 so far, No movement on 2047 01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,240 that. The Valerians talk about kind of 2048 01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:04,880 expecting to maybe have to fight them, but that's not a sure 2049 01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:06,720 thing. They haven't declared he's the 2050 01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:09,400 red Kraken, He's at the black Kraken, he's at the green 2051 01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:12,200 Kraken. His color doesn't give any 2052 01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:15,440 indication of what side he's on. I am going to dress up as the 2053 01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:17,720 Red Kraken for Dragon Con in a few weeks so we'll we'll 2054 01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:20,200 hopefully soon have some pictures of me covered in blood 2055 01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,600 and I've got a Greyjoy shield and all that. 2056 01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:23,800 So fake blood. Fake blood. 2057 01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:30,360 No, it'll be real blood. So we'll see about that. 2058 01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:33,080 That's a that's a big player. Obviously Greyjoys are like 2059 01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:35,560 navies don't do well with with ships. 2060 01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:37,520 I mean with Dragons. Navies don't do well ships. 2061 01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:38,880 And that's exactly what they are. 2062 01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:39,920 They are ships. They do. 2063 01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:42,800 They can't do well without ships, Dragons, and you know, 2064 01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,280 that's a problem for them. But there's so many ships and 2065 01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:49,040 both sides have Dragons, so it's not necessarily as big as a 2066 01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:52,520 deterrent as it could be. I will say ships much like 2067 01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:57,080 Dragons, not as much like Dragons, but more so than 2068 01:41:57,080 --> 01:42:00,960 navies, sorry armies, they could be in multiple places at once. 2069 01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:04,440 You know, if you split the ships up into like a little, I don't 2070 01:42:04,440 --> 01:42:07,560 know if you have like 100 ship army, you could have 10 2071 01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:11,120 different ships at 10 different cities and you can't get Dragons 2072 01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:14,880 to all those cities all at once, you know, So it can't be a, a, a 2073 01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:17,680 problematic distraction in the in the war efforts. 2074 01:42:18,040 --> 01:42:21,120 That's true, and we also saw how moving at night can be one way 2075 01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:25,080 to evade potential problems with Dragons, so maybe that could be 2076 01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:28,080 adopted. The Tyrells, they are green and 2077 01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:29,560 gold. It seems like they'd be a 2078 01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:34,200 perfect match for for Aegon's green and gold Hightower slash 2079 01:42:34,200 --> 01:42:35,800 Targaryen sigil. But they're not. 2080 01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:38,800 And yet they're not. So we hear that. 2081 01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:42,800 Remember, when Otto leaves, he's like, I'll go to Old Town, get 2082 01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:46,080 our business together there. And Alice's like, go to 2083 01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:49,000 Highgarden. They are the they're in charge 2084 01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:51,400 of the Reach. If you can go to them and use 2085 01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:55,400 their power to leverage control over the Reach, that could pay 2086 01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:56,960 off more. Kind of like what Damon did by 2087 01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:00,240 going to the Tulleys, although he didn't directly go to the 2088 01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:01,640 Tulleys. But still, that's how it worked 2089 01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:03,320 out. It went through the Tulleys. 2090 01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:07,560 Yeah, something like that is what Otto was maybe trying to do 2091 01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:10,320 before, who knows, before he got captured. 2092 01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:12,320 It might even be the Tyrells that put him in prison, that 2093 01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:14,760 that's one of the options. They're just like, no, we're 2094 01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:17,240 going to stay neutral and by to in order to stay neutral, we're 2095 01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:18,600 going to throw you in jail and just. 2096 01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:20,600 We do have a poll going in our Facebook group. 2097 01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:23,280 If you're in our Facebook group, please go vote on auto and you 2098 01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:24,600 could. If you think it's the Tyrells, 2099 01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:26,760 you could vote for them. I, I think I mentioned this at 2100 01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:29,200 least a little bit last episode, but I'm still thinking about it 2101 01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:32,440 now because someone in one of the comments I think suspected 2102 01:43:32,440 --> 01:43:35,240 that maybe Massaria had auto, which I, I hadn't considered 2103 01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:36,920 that and I think that is a good consideration. 2104 01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:40,080 But her much like the my rails and almost all these other 2105 01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:43,440 people that are suggested, like why would they keep it secret? 2106 01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:46,600 Why would Massaria not tell, Hey, Reneira, I got auto. 2107 01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:48,520 We can use him as a hostage as leverage. 2108 01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:49,880 We can get information from him like. 2109 01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:52,680 Whoever has it doesn't make sense missaria to. 2110 01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:53,800 Me. Missaria would kill him. 2111 01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:54,840 Yeah. She hates him. 2112 01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:58,000 Yeah. I mean, yeah, probably. 2113 01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,360 Maybe someone has captured him on her behalf and is bringing 2114 01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:04,520 him to her so she can be the one without of that. 2115 01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:07,880 That still seems a little convoluted and I don't know, I I 2116 01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,480 feel like whoever's got him has got to have a reason for keeping 2117 01:44:10,480 --> 01:44:12,240 it secret. Yeah, that's what makes it hard 2118 01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:14,520 to figure. But I still can't think of what 2119 01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:17,840 Lorries thinks Otto will do if you've kept him cat like I 2120 01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:19,680 don't. There is a flaw in that. 2121 01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:23,400 I still lean lorries, but I I, I, I, I feel about even about 2122 01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:25,480 lorries and bees berries. But it's not really the scope of 2123 01:44:25,480 --> 01:44:28,400 what we're saying right now. But regardless, go vote if or 2124 01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,320 and give us your opinion. Yeah, let's, let's move on. 2125 01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:31,680 We've already got it. We've already got a place for 2126 01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:34,040 people to weigh in on that. So the Arbor is another one 2127 01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:36,000 that's kind of like, huh, I wonder why the Arbor isn't 2128 01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:37,280 involved. They typically have a large 2129 01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:39,880 fleet, but their fleet wasn't involved in fire and blood 2130 01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:41,160 either. So they might just be following 2131 01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:43,160 George's lead on that. George has never given an 2132 01:44:43,160 --> 01:44:46,120 explanation for why the Arbor fleet wasn't involved there. 2133 01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:47,800 It's not hard to imagine there is one. 2134 01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:49,920 Like they could have had some sort of catastrophe recently 2135 01:44:49,920 --> 01:44:52,040 that threw off their ability. They might just be like, we are 2136 01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:54,280 not getting involved. They're just like a like 2137 01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:57,600 aggressive neutrality. Come make us join your war. 2138 01:44:57,600 --> 01:44:59,680 We're an island off the southwest coast. 2139 01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:01,240 If you want to come make us join, do it. 2140 01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:03,520 But until you come force us, we are going to sit here and do 2141 01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:05,480 nothing. And if you ravage us, that's 2142 01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:08,840 going to have an impact on the wine supply for this country. 2143 01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:10,640 So don't. So don't just think about who 2144 01:45:10,640 --> 01:45:12,080 you're affecting. You know, that's that's their 2145 01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:14,800 real like if you mess with us, you mess with the wine. 2146 01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:18,000 So like that's that's they've got that weapon to hold out 2147 01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:21,280 Bravos. Bravos is no ally of the 2148 01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:22,880 Triarchy. In fact, they're an enemy of the 2149 01:45:22,880 --> 01:45:24,760 Triarchy. They have a big Navy. 2150 01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:26,760 They have, I mean, they're the leader of Bravos is called the 2151 01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:28,680 Sea Lord. They always have a big Navy. 2152 01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:31,720 So that is a potential player. That's where Laurie said he was 2153 01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:35,320 going to go with Aegon, Yeah. Yes, it is very true. 2154 01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:39,200 Volantis Ditto. Also not an ally of the 2155 01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:41,880 Triarchy. Also has a big Navy farther 2156 01:45:41,880 --> 01:45:43,760 away. Less likely to be involved but 2157 01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:47,360 definitely potential. Absolutely, Norvos, Kohor and 2158 01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:50,520 Loras, those are the other free cities. 2159 01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,400 The rest have all been either mentioned or they're part of the 2160 01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,120 Trierarchy. Unlikely to matter but you never 2161 01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:56,960 know I guess. They're cohort and Norvoss or 2162 01:45:56,960 --> 01:45:58,440 inland. They don't get involved with 2163 01:45:58,440 --> 01:46:00,520 this naval stuff. Loraff is tiny and poor. 2164 01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:02,680 They're not likely to matter, but technically they're worth a 2165 01:46:02,680 --> 01:46:06,880 a mention as I said before. Dorn right? 2166 01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:12,160 Dorn is independent. Their book version Prince Koran 2167 01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:15,440 is like we are not getting involved in this. 2168 01:46:15,440 --> 01:46:18,680 Y'all both have Dragons. We're done. 2169 01:46:18,720 --> 01:46:20,680 We're not we're we don't want to join either side. 2170 01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:23,360 Last time Dragons came to our realm y'all burned a bunch of 2171 01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:26,160 our castles like repeatedly. Aegon and Visenya did that, then 2172 01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:28,440 Rainey's before. We'd rather just stay out of it 2173 01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:30,520 now. It would be a small change for 2174 01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:35,400 them to tweak things because his daughter, Princess Alejandra, 2175 01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:39,360 when she takes over, she starts raiding the realm. 2176 01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:41,600 She's like, Ah, here's our chance, like the realms when 2177 01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,040 weakened. So they could they could start 2178 01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:44,760 that early. They could have that they could 2179 01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:46,680 just tweak the timeline a little. 2180 01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:49,120 And this this interesting Dornus character gets involved. 2181 01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:53,160 So that's a possibility now. Also, the reason Dorn didn't 2182 01:46:53,160 --> 01:46:55,720 join either side was well, the Dornus typically hate the greens 2183 01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:57,120 anyway. They hate the Richmond, the 2184 01:46:57,120 --> 01:46:59,720 Tyrells, the high Old Town. That's that's see what they're 2185 01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:04,320 usually against, but they were opposed to the blacks in the 2186 01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:07,440 recent war of the Stepstones. The the Doran Doran was the ally 2187 01:47:07,440 --> 01:47:09,440 of the trierarchy against Damon and Corley. 2188 01:47:09,440 --> 01:47:11,440 So they they've got bad blood for both sides. 2189 01:47:11,440 --> 01:47:18,120 So anyway, worth a mention, but decent chance nothing much comes 2190 01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:19,800 of it. Let's talk about the blacks 2191 01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:23,800 characters. Rainiera huge turn for her for 2192 01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:25,800 her. She starts off in grief, having 2193 01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:28,360 a falling out with Damon, sending her children away 2194 01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:30,280 because she's worried about being able to protect them, 2195 01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:36,080 feeling lonely, isolated and thinking she can't win to 2196 01:47:37,120 --> 01:47:39,720 everything works out seemingly at the end. 2197 01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:42,840 Damon bends the knee to her after prophecy. 2198 01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:45,680 Like, to her, that's got to be like, wow, of all the things 2199 01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:48,120 that turned him around, you know, dreams and prophecy. 2200 01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:51,360 I guess she kind of is implied, like he doesn't really get into 2201 01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:52,920 the details, but I guess you're right. 2202 01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:53,840 He said. I saw it. 2203 01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:55,520 I saw it. Yeah, it's just like I would 2204 01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:56,520 have a lot of questions. I would just. 2205 01:47:56,520 --> 01:47:57,680 Like you're talking like my father. 2206 01:47:57,840 --> 01:47:59,840 Yeah, I would like to see him talk about this more like I 2207 01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:01,800 would like to see the continuation of of like him 2208 01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:04,720 explain this to her. Anyway, they won't do it but I 2209 01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:06,200 I'm super curious. Yeah, they, it was, it would 2210 01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:08,120 have been weird for them to have a conversation in front of the 2211 01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:10,920 whole army like that. They already spoke High Valyrian 2212 01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:13,040 to keep it a little bit secret. But yeah, I, I do want to see 2213 01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:15,760 further conversations there. But it's such a dramatic turn 2214 01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:18,280 around for her. She's like, I'm going to lose. 2215 01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:20,760 I'm alone all of a sudden. Damon's back with her. 2216 01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:23,160 She's got Mazaria. She's got Mazaria's network in 2217 01:48:23,160 --> 01:48:26,640 terms of what that does for her politically empower dragon 2218 01:48:26,640 --> 01:48:28,560 siege. She's got new Dragons, she's got 2219 01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:29,480 a Navy. All right. 2220 01:48:29,480 --> 01:48:30,840 That was the one thing she had already. 2221 01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:32,600 But even that's stronger than it was at the beginning of the 2222 01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:36,480 season. And her vision for the prophecy 2223 01:48:36,480 --> 01:48:39,560 is a little clearer now because she thinks she can win now. 2224 01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:42,960 She's got all her thing. It's a humongous turn around and 2225 01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,040 it's starting to go the wrong direction. 2226 01:48:45,040 --> 01:48:47,520 Like it not only does it turns around so well that it begins to 2227 01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:50,040 make her maybe a little overconfidence, not the right 2228 01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:52,760 word. It's we use the term God complex 2229 01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:56,480 that she's getting a little too sure of herself to feeling that 2230 01:48:56,480 --> 01:48:59,760 what she's doing is destined that she's and nothing she can 2231 01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:03,320 do is wrong because she's the one with the prophecy she's got 2232 01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:06,000 like the whole realm dies if she's isn't successful. 2233 01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:09,800 Like she can frame it that way and not be entirely wrong. 2234 01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:13,480 But also you can see how that would that's pretty hard. 2235 01:49:13,480 --> 01:49:15,600 That's a pretty thing. Big thing to have on your 2236 01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:17,680 shoulders. You might like, mess with the 2237 01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:20,200 person, right Sean? Yeah, it might be enough like 2238 01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:24,120 right now, I think, or maybe even we could see that came and 2239 01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:26,560 burns it some town down. She doesn't go out and burn some 2240 01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:29,920 town down, but she might start to she might start to feel like, 2241 01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:32,040 well that's what I have to do or that's what he's doing. 2242 01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:36,880 I can do it or he started it or it's it's part of my destiny or 2243 01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:40,360 whatever it takes is there might be some justification for 2244 01:49:40,440 --> 01:49:44,000 unnecessary violence. Like already I think it's a 2245 01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:47,960 little hopeful of me to hope that they use the Dragons in 2246 01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:53,320 ways that do more message sending and military damage then 2247 01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:55,760 innocent civilian killing. I think. 2248 01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:57,960 I think I might be a little naive and hoping for that in the 2249 01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:00,680 1st place, but I'm worried there's going to be even more 2250 01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:02,560 than I would have thought the way it's going now. 2251 01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,560 Right on. So turning to Damon who we are 2252 01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:08,480 going to do a full episode on him separately. 2253 01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:14,080 So just the bullet points, he goes from wanting to just do 2254 01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:16,760 something going. His first instinct was to take 2255 01:50:16,760 --> 01:50:22,600 Rainey's and go attack Vergar to take out the key strategic 2256 01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:26,760 obstacle that they're facing in the large dragon on the other 2257 01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:28,240 side. If they can take out Vegar, then 2258 01:50:28,240 --> 01:50:30,720 they're then they have the advantage right away without 2259 01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:33,240 dragon seeds or any of the other things that came later. 2260 01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:34,520 But of course that doesn't happen. 2261 01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:38,440 Then blood and cheese happens and this backfires in a number 2262 01:50:38,440 --> 01:50:40,680 of ways. One of them being that it makes 2263 01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:44,000 Amond even more full of himself, which maybe isn't backfiring for 2264 01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:46,040 the blacks, but it's certainly an interesting side effect. 2265 01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:48,760 He's like, oh, they're afraid to face me, they're assassinating 2266 01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:50,840 me instead. Like that's not exactly what 2267 01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:55,160 happened there Amond. So he goes to Haranal and the 2268 01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:57,120 one of the like, one of the first things that happens is 2269 01:50:57,120 --> 01:50:58,640 Alice Rivers. Like you will die here. 2270 01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:00,840 And then he has a vision at the end of the season showing his 2271 01:51:00,840 --> 01:51:05,160 own death that seems to be related to his presence there or 2272 01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:08,720 directly connected to it. So he goes from ambitious and 2273 01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:13,400 selfish and angry to pretty dedicated and seemingly focused 2274 01:51:13,400 --> 01:51:16,120 on the long term and willing to die for the 'cause that is a 2275 01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:19,360 gigantic turn around like and nothing happened to Damon at 2276 01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:25,360 Harrenhal, right? I think it's pretty huge. 2277 01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:28,240 Like this is a guy that choked Rainier at the barest mention of 2278 01:51:28,240 --> 01:51:31,280 prophecy. Like I like he like she barely 2279 01:51:31,280 --> 01:51:32,840 starts talking about it and he chokes her. 2280 01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:37,360 He yells drivel at Alice Rivers when she's talking about curses 2281 01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:39,800 and dreams. And but then when she's leading 2282 01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,160 him to the heart tree in episode 8, he's like, he's like, you 2283 01:51:42,160 --> 01:51:44,720 know, you don't scoff. And he says I am no longer 2284 01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:49,480 inclined to like in a calm even voice, like devoid of pride, 2285 01:51:49,480 --> 01:51:51,120 even though he's admitting he was wrong. 2286 01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:54,080 It's just he's still keeping a little of his royal bearing 2287 01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:56,520 while admitting that he was completely wrong. 2288 01:51:57,320 --> 01:51:59,400 So that's a huge turn around too. 2289 01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:02,240 That is a character perhaps more than anyone else that changed. 2290 01:52:02,240 --> 01:52:04,440 I'm I think he may be changed the most of anyone. 2291 01:52:04,440 --> 01:52:09,120 But the one argument against that is that that change came 2292 01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:11,600 right at the end. And it hasn't fully played out. 2293 01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:13,000 Like, maybe he's just saying things. 2294 01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:16,320 Maybe he's going to backslide. You know, how convinced is he 2295 01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:18,040 really? I think he, he feels it seems 2296 01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:21,000 pretty, pretty legit. But to be fair, we haven't seen 2297 01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:24,320 his his behavior much, much farther past this moment. 2298 01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:26,920 I mean, he can be convinced of all of these things and still 2299 01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:29,680 think when it comes down to it that his opinion on some matter 2300 01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:31,840 later is is more correct. That's true. 2301 01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:35,960 His his assessment of some military situation is more yeah, 2302 01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:38,840 I I still don't think that means he won't still have some 2303 01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:42,200 stubbornness or streak of pride or anything like he just will. 2304 01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:44,120 He supports Rainier, but I don't know. 2305 01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:48,040 I also think the change came in the 7th episode and we're 2306 01:52:48,040 --> 01:52:50,000 already seeing a play out on the 8th episode. 2307 01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:51,280 You're right, I think you're right. 2308 01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:54,040 I think it was because of the change that came about in the 2309 01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:57,960 seventh one that he was able to accept the prophecy that he was 2310 01:52:57,960 --> 01:53:01,280 willing to kneel to Rainier. I think the kneeling to Rainier 2311 01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,040 is result of the change that has already happened in him. 2312 01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:06,240 I fully agree and that's why I wanted to set an aside an 2313 01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:08,680 episode for it because yes, there's multiple things like he 2314 01:53:08,680 --> 01:53:10,560 had to multiple things had to fall in place. 2315 01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:12,720 Like he couldn't accept the prophecy without accepting 2316 01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:14,040 supernatural. He couldn't accept the 2317 01:53:14,040 --> 01:53:17,280 supernatural without accepting, without evidence of that, and he 2318 01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:20,880 couldn't not, he couldn't follow Raniero without believing in the 2319 01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:22,200 prophecy, which he couldn't accept without. 2320 01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:25,640 Yeah, you can see why there's a lot of a lot to it, but yeah, 2321 01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:27,280 we'll talk about that later. Jace. 2322 01:53:27,480 --> 01:53:30,680 Jace's very interesting spot. Does a great job with 2323 01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:33,080 negotiations and diplomacy, Shows himself to be pretty 2324 01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:36,080 skilled at that, maybe even talented at it, but still ends 2325 01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:38,440 up kind of shut out by the end. He feels shut out. 2326 01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:43,160 He's got some SDE small dragon energy, but has legitimate 2327 01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:46,480 concerns about his place in the succession. 2328 01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:50,960 He's still his, you could say his art goes from air to still 2329 01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:55,240 air, but feeling less secure in that position, even though no 2330 01:53:55,240 --> 01:53:57,200 one's directly challenging him for it. 2331 01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:01,000 It's the reasons he felt secure in that position have been have 2332 01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:03,440 changed. The world around them has 2333 01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:04,840 changed. Like he still has the same 2334 01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:06,360 dragon. He's still Rainier, his first 2335 01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:10,800 born child, but the things that he thought made him special 2336 01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:15,000 aren't as special anymore. And the last we saw, Rainier 2337 01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:19,920 flew off to confront Damon and he, you know, as we talked about 2338 01:54:19,920 --> 01:54:22,720 at the time, it made sense for him, her to bring sea smoke 2339 01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:24,880 instead of Jace for a number of reasons. 2340 01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:30,920 But it it recurring kind of flaw with Rainier is, and this goes 2341 01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:33,400 to her God complex thing, I think 'cause she doesn't really 2342 01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:35,400 explain herself to subordinates very well. 2343 01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:37,160 It's a problem that we saw with Jon Snow. 2344 01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:41,680 I think that he wasn't very good at explaining why his decisions 2345 01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:45,960 were what they were, which we readers get we're in his head or 2346 01:54:45,960 --> 01:54:47,720 we understand we have the time to think about it. 2347 01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:51,760 Same goes for Jason Rainiera. But we also see that, yeah, I 2348 01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:53,520 know. Tell communicate with your 2349 01:54:53,520 --> 01:54:56,800 subordinates better. Sometimes I can't tell whether I 2350 01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:59,520 think that's a writing flaw or a character flaw. 2351 01:54:59,520 --> 01:55:01,760 That's one of those ones where, you know, like I try to point 2352 01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:04,240 that out that when I criticize something, sometimes I, I think, 2353 01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:06,640 yeah, like it's valid for the writers to write this. 2354 01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:09,440 It's believable. But I find it to be a character 2355 01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:11,960 flaw. In the case of Jon Snow, I maybe 2356 01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:13,400 was more of a writing flaw in my eyes. 2357 01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:15,480 In this case, I think it is meant to be more of a character 2358 01:55:15,480 --> 01:55:18,560 flaw because we see the way that Jay seethes over it. 2359 01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:21,480 We see the way that it plays out. 2360 01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:24,400 So I'm inclined to think that they that the writers would say, 2361 01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:28,080 yes, this is a that she has. I don't know that I thought that 2362 01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:30,320 in Game of Thrones of Jon Snow. I kind of felt like that just 2363 01:55:30,320 --> 01:55:34,360 kind of like got swept under the like I got wasn't important to 2364 01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:34,960 them. I don't know. 2365 01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:38,080 It wasn't a show thing for Jon. I think it was a book thing, 2366 01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:39,920 yeah. Like his, his his relationship 2367 01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,640 with his, with the other commanders on the wall, that he 2368 01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:44,880 didn't explain his decisions very well. 2369 01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:46,400 I I wouldn't. Yeah, I don't know that that was 2370 01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:47,120 a show problem. Just. 2371 01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:48,600 OK, cool. It was like I couldn't quite 2372 01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:50,560 remember that. But yeah, anyways, at my point, 2373 01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:54,120 I, I I don't think we think that they I think I think it's good 2374 01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:56,400 TVI guess it's good drama for Jace. 2375 01:55:56,400 --> 01:56:00,440 I think it's a believable conflict for a son to have with 2376 01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:02,040 a mother. It's believable for an heir to 2377 01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:05,320 have with the the the ruler I think for. 2378 01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:08,080 Bastard in the setting bastard. There's a lot of levels to where 2379 01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:12,920 I'm happy to see this play out. It makes me unhappy in that I 2380 01:56:12,920 --> 01:56:17,400 hate to see Rainier look so bad to me because I like the 2381 01:56:17,400 --> 01:56:21,040 character, but I don't like Rainier in this context. 2382 01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:25,200 I don't I don't like her as a as a ruling mother, you know, like 2383 01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:27,720 it's when it when those roles get muddied for her. 2384 01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:29,240 I. She goes to queen and that's a 2385 01:56:29,240 --> 01:56:30,440 mother. Like we talked a lot about the 2386 01:56:30,440 --> 01:56:32,920 duality of that, how Allison is now focused on mother because 2387 01:56:32,920 --> 01:56:35,040 she's no longer the queen and it's making her a better mother. 2388 01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:37,120 But Rainier is going the other way. 2389 01:56:37,120 --> 01:56:38,720 She's becoming less of a mother, more of a queen. 2390 01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:40,680 And part of that is her children have been sent away, so she's 2391 01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:42,080 not constantly reminded about them. 2392 01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:45,120 She's only got only has Jace around who is also the Crown 2393 01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:48,120 Prince. Better mother to Helena, I would 2394 01:56:48,120 --> 01:56:50,200 say, for Allison. Keep in mind she's still making 2395 01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:53,880 failures as queen too, because it it is important for her as a 2396 01:56:53,880 --> 01:56:57,520 mother to keep Jace informed of what's going on, but also as a 2397 01:56:57,520 --> 01:56:59,920 queen to keep Jace and the council informed. 2398 01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:02,720 And that wasn't the first time when she just went off and did 2399 01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:06,360 something or to give credit to the writers for making a mistake 2400 01:57:06,360 --> 01:57:08,720 that she's making. The council addresses it too. 2401 01:57:08,720 --> 01:57:11,360 Remember, they're like they, they looked at Corley. 2402 01:57:11,360 --> 01:57:13,480 So I'm like, what do we do? And he's like, let's wait, she 2403 01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:14,800 what see what she has to say first. 2404 01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:17,360 Like he doesn't know what to do, you know, like she often is 2405 01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:19,560 making these decisions and going off and doing things without 2406 01:57:19,560 --> 01:57:22,200 letting people know. And, and other people like Rob 2407 01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:24,600 made that mistake too. He had this big master battle 2408 01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:28,120 plan that Edmere ruined, quote UN quote ruined because Edmere 2409 01:57:28,120 --> 01:57:29,800 didn't know the big master battle playing because Rob 2410 01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:32,600 didn't tell him. And every now and in some of 2411 01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:34,880 these decisions, you can see that maybe they don't want to 2412 01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:37,440 tell the subordinates because maybe they don't think they'll 2413 01:57:37,440 --> 01:57:39,760 be able to convince them and they don't want to be argued out 2414 01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:42,160 of it, or maybe they need to keep it secret or something. 2415 01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:46,040 Maybe that's the reason to not announce it to the whole council 2416 01:57:46,040 --> 01:57:48,120 once. But jeez, pulled Jace aside and 2417 01:57:48,120 --> 01:57:52,000 let him know, right? Or maybe leave instructions, 2418 01:57:52,320 --> 01:57:55,840 say, you know, don't open it till tomorrow at 3:00 and then 2419 01:57:55,840 --> 01:57:56,960 leave. And then they can find out 2420 01:57:56,960 --> 01:57:59,480 what's going on. So they don't get in a lot of 2421 01:57:59,480 --> 01:58:01,760 these scenarios too. She just kind of got lucky it 2422 01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:03,360 worked out. What if she had gotten 2423 01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:08,040 intercepted by Vegar or got hit by a straight arrow or just 2424 01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:11,560 Damon needed her there or some internal struggle, like it's all 2425 01:58:11,560 --> 01:58:13,600 kinds of things that might have kept her from going back and 2426 01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:15,160 people would not have known. It's the same thing. 2427 01:58:15,160 --> 01:58:17,960 She's mad at Damon four. It's not letting her know what's 2428 01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:19,720 going on. She's doing the same thing. 2429 01:58:19,720 --> 01:58:22,480 So I I think it's definitely a mistake that she's making. 2430 01:58:22,480 --> 01:58:25,920 And I think it's this show seems to be doing it intentionally, 2431 01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:27,240 not not a writing. Error. 2432 01:58:27,240 --> 01:58:28,200 Right on. Yeah, I agree. 2433 01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:31,840 Well said. Y'all great takes on Jace there 2434 01:58:32,160 --> 01:58:34,520 Bayla. She does not have small dragon 2435 01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:36,200 energy, even though she does have a small dragon. 2436 01:58:36,200 --> 01:58:39,960 She shows herself to be someone that handles adversity pretty 2437 01:58:39,960 --> 01:58:43,600 well, like someone that the bumps in the road occur and she 2438 01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:45,840 has the right attitude about how to face them. 2439 01:58:46,120 --> 01:58:48,000 Just kind of gotten everything in life. 2440 01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:50,920 I think Reyna would say her her sister, you know? 2441 01:58:50,920 --> 01:58:52,520 There is a little of that probably too. 2442 01:58:52,640 --> 01:58:54,240 She hasn't fate. I mean, she's had her mother's 2443 01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:56,760 daughter. She's had some her life has been 2444 01:58:56,760 --> 01:59:00,480 easier for having her dragon and her betrothed of the Crown 2445 01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:03,840 Prince is all I'll say. Like, compared to Reyna, Bayla 2446 01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:06,960 has a pretty sweet life. She's had a mirror image that 2447 01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:10,080 she can see. I'm glad I didn't get that 2448 01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:13,240 outcome. Yeah, She's like, I'm the lucky 2449 01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:16,160 when I got the dragon, I got the I'm born first. 2450 01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:18,440 Not that these things will all necessarily go well in the end, 2451 01:59:18,600 --> 01:59:21,160 but yeah, she can look at her situation and go. 2452 01:59:21,160 --> 01:59:24,800 My sister got the short end of the stick on multiple reasons. 2453 01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:27,440 Whereas Jace is, he doesn't have that comparison. 2454 01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:29,320 His brother died. So yeah, that's worse. 2455 01:59:29,320 --> 01:59:31,560 But they're not twins. That's years apart. 2456 01:59:31,680 --> 01:59:33,960 He was never there or close in the 1st place. 2457 01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:38,960 So yeah. So Bella shows that her ability 2458 01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:41,040 to handle these things, take these things in stride is 2459 01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:43,920 something she's also able to communicate to other members of 2460 01:59:43,920 --> 01:59:47,240 her faction and kind of get them back in the saddle, so to speak. 2461 01:59:47,240 --> 01:59:50,280 She does it with Corliss. She's a big part of of his turn 2462 01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:53,800 and she does it with Jace, which is perhaps in some ways more 2463 01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:55,720 important and more personal because they have a more 2464 01:59:55,720 --> 01:59:59,440 personal connection. But it is also just beginning to 2465 01:59:59,440 --> 02:00:02,840 play out. So I would argue that that Bayla 2466 02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:05,920 is Rainier as most consistent and least problematic ally to 2467 02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:09,600 this point, The one that Rainier never seems to have any trouble 2468 02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:13,640 with her no back talk, no disobedience other than maybe 2469 02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:16,840 getting a little closer to the Kristen than she said she would, 2470 02:00:16,840 --> 02:00:18,680 which there's a little of that in there, but. 2471 02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:22,440 Her she's sidelined because she doesn't have a bigger dragon and 2472 02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:25,080 doesn't complain like oh, why didn't she take me, you know 2473 02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:27,400 Well, because your dragon is small. 2474 02:00:27,400 --> 02:00:31,760 It's as simple as that, you know, So good character she's. 2475 02:00:31,760 --> 02:00:34,240 Kind of sidelined because she's so good is what you know, like 2476 02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:37,160 she is so competent and not causing trouble that like 2477 02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:39,360 there's not a lot of not a ton of drama. 2478 02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:42,560 So like I'm glad they gave her that Corley scene and she did 2479 02:00:42,560 --> 02:00:44,960 talk and speak to her own herself. 2480 02:00:45,160 --> 02:00:47,320 I don't want to like I think I was maybe too harsh on that 2481 02:00:47,320 --> 02:00:50,600 Corley's Bella scene because it it was for the benefit of 2482 02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:54,080 Coralis and Rainier, but it was a good Bayla scene regardless. 2483 02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:55,640 But you know, it wasn't, it wasn't. 2484 02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:59,120 And the point is, it wasn't as much about Bayla the scene, you 2485 02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:00,840 know what I mean? Yeah, it was about what she 2486 02:01:00,840 --> 02:01:03,240 brings to the table, less about what she is. 2487 02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:04,600 You know, it's like this is her skill. 2488 02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:07,120 This is a skill she has of bringing Coralis back, 2489 02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:09,920 negotiating him and saying all the right things. 2490 02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:14,280 But it was more about him, like his role in a way, yeah. 2491 02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:16,000 Yeah, and so like, you know, she still said her thing. 2492 02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:18,240 I'm I'm fire and blood, you know, it's like. 2493 02:01:18,640 --> 02:01:21,600 It definitely has more like the plot wise those scenes are more 2494 02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:25,360 about Jace and Corlise but character wise they were more 2495 02:01:25,360 --> 02:01:26,760 about Baylor. Like she they got. 2496 02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:28,800 She said more. She had way more dialogue in 2497 02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:29,800 those scenes, way more. Action. 2498 02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:32,480 She had a great monologue. Yeah, great monologue, great 2499 02:01:32,480 --> 02:01:34,960 acting. So that's where I would maybe 2500 02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:37,160 quibble a little bit with that distinction, but I still I don't 2501 02:01:37,320 --> 02:01:39,080 fully disagree. Obviously, I mostly agree. 2502 02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:44,200 Reyna, her sister, of course, from the person getting the 2503 02:01:44,200 --> 02:01:48,040 short end of the stick to possibly a bigger dragon than 2504 02:01:48,040 --> 02:01:52,440 her sister, which puts her in front of her in terms of like 2505 02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:55,400 how she might get used in a war situation. 2506 02:01:55,400 --> 02:01:58,560 Like well, I'm I can't send Moondancer into battle unless 2507 02:01:58,560 --> 02:02:01,000 it's really desperate. But this dragon, assuming it's 2508 02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:05,040 tamed and controllable, which is a big assumption, But if that 2509 02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:08,440 happens, then this is a much more valuable asset to the war 2510 02:02:08,760 --> 02:02:10,800 than Moon Dancer. And all of a sudden Reyna would 2511 02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:16,480 leapfrog leap dragon her sister, which could create some very 2512 02:02:16,480 --> 02:02:19,760 interesting character moments between them in addition to 2513 02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:22,480 having an impact on the war. If another dragon, you know, if 2514 02:02:22,480 --> 02:02:23,920 it's like, wow, another dragon, wow. 2515 02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:28,560 Jeez, so far the way they presented Bela, she should be 2516 02:02:28,560 --> 02:02:30,040 understanding and supportive of that. 2517 02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:31,320 But. We'll see. 2518 02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:35,080 We'll see if her letting you know adversity just rolls off 2519 02:02:35,080 --> 02:02:36,440 her. We'll see if that continues. 2520 02:02:36,440 --> 02:02:38,440 Given this scenario, this would be a little more personal and 2521 02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:41,080 you're having her younger sister leapfrog her leap dragging her 2522 02:02:41,080 --> 02:02:45,800 pardon is might change that, but not maybe not Mazaria. 2523 02:02:45,800 --> 02:02:48,560 Big change for her as well. Less about who she is and and 2524 02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:51,560 more about her her fortunes changing dramatically. 2525 02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:55,960 She goes she's from she's a refugee because her place of 2526 02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:59,520 business was just burned. She lost everything to masters 2527 02:02:59,520 --> 02:03:03,720 of whispers for the queen, who's grateful for saving her life and 2528 02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:07,680 now a possible lover as well, which just again, we're not 2529 02:03:07,680 --> 02:03:09,920 trying to get too far ahead of ourselves, but that by itself 2530 02:03:09,920 --> 02:03:13,680 has all sorts of ramifications. This is the lover to someone who 2531 02:03:13,680 --> 02:03:18,120 believes she's the like ordained follower of the prophecy, 2532 02:03:18,120 --> 02:03:21,480 carrier of the prophecy, a prophecy Mazari doesn't even 2533 02:03:21,480 --> 02:03:24,880 know about. Like, oh boy, you know, that's a 2534 02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:27,640 lot. There's a lot there so well 2535 02:03:27,640 --> 02:03:31,520 that's that's fraught with potential that is untapped. 2536 02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:36,800 Corley's a lot of recent losses and mostly going back to last 2537 02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:39,880 season, losing his daughter, losing his son, then losing 2538 02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:41,600 Rain. He's the ultimate loss that he 2539 02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:46,280 felt that way more. And like we said with Baila, he 2540 02:03:46,280 --> 02:03:51,000 steps up to be the hand after she helps him frame what it 2541 02:03:51,000 --> 02:03:54,440 would mean to continue her work. He didn't see it that way. 2542 02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:55,880 And this is a big change for him. 2543 02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:58,200 This is someone a little bit like it's a micro version of 2544 02:03:58,200 --> 02:04:03,000 Damon. He's accused multiple times of 2545 02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:05,920 making things about himself. He says that later. 2546 02:04:05,920 --> 02:04:10,920 He admits to it in episode 8. And there's ample evidence of 2547 02:04:10,920 --> 02:04:13,840 that with his two bastard sons that he has had very little to 2548 02:04:13,840 --> 02:04:17,280 do with his entire life, which is a sign of selfishness there, 2549 02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:19,560 too. So this is a guy who goes from 2550 02:04:20,120 --> 02:04:22,760 being all kind of about himself, a man that when he gets sad, 2551 02:04:22,760 --> 02:04:26,840 he'll go flee and go take ship when his, his whole family is 2552 02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:27,960 hurting. But it's he makes it about 2553 02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:30,360 himself. So this is a guy that also has 2554 02:04:30,360 --> 02:04:32,920 turned, he's realized some of those mistakes seemingly. 2555 02:04:33,200 --> 02:04:38,760 And it it, his confrontation from his son happens right as 2556 02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:40,400 he's sailing out to join the blockade. 2557 02:04:40,400 --> 02:04:42,200 So from managing the blockade to joining it. 2558 02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:45,240 So it remains to be seen and how this will all play out. 2559 02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:47,320 But he's had a major change of, of who he is too. 2560 02:04:47,320 --> 02:04:50,360 I think we haven't yet seen how that will affect his behavior, 2561 02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:53,760 if he even survives the battle to have a change. 2562 02:04:54,320 --> 02:04:56,360 But I think he's a different man now. 2563 02:04:57,000 --> 02:04:59,360 Is that is that how you kind of see a two shot or? 2564 02:05:00,320 --> 02:05:03,640 I mean, he's just, he just has to be, he's lost his son and his 2565 02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:05,920 daughter and his wife. Like, how can you not change as 2566 02:05:05,920 --> 02:05:10,160 a person? So and, and I think for the 2567 02:05:10,160 --> 02:05:13,240 better. I think that that that, you 2568 02:05:13,240 --> 02:05:16,080 know, I'm not sure quite how well the show will portray this, 2569 02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:19,040 but I feel like that scene, I think they had that scene with 2570 02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:24,880 Alan for a reason. And I think that might 'cause 2571 02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:28,040 Corliss to focus who the new hymn is. 2572 02:05:28,040 --> 02:05:30,640 That makes sense. He's probably like a little lost 2573 02:05:30,920 --> 02:05:34,160 and maybe becoming hand gives him some sort of focus. 2574 02:05:34,160 --> 02:05:36,440 Some, you know, a lot of times people kind of bury themselves 2575 02:05:36,440 --> 02:05:39,760 in her work with her dealing with some struggling life, which 2576 02:05:39,760 --> 02:05:41,720 might keep you from really changing, right? 2577 02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:43,760 Or, or maybe it'll make you change in a way you didn't 2578 02:05:43,760 --> 02:05:45,520 intend to. You know, just momentum of your 2579 02:05:45,520 --> 02:05:47,240 job will carry you in in your direction. 2580 02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:51,480 But I think that conversation with Alan is going to pull some 2581 02:05:51,480 --> 02:05:53,040 strings in him, one way or the other. 2582 02:05:53,880 --> 02:05:55,760 Well said. Yeah, Nice and succinct there. 2583 02:05:55,760 --> 02:05:59,000 And Speaking of Alan, this is a guy we meet who's highly 2584 02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:03,440 capable, very bitter for good reasons, and he gets a chance to 2585 02:06:03,440 --> 02:06:06,680 finally vent about that at the end of the season. 2586 02:06:07,480 --> 02:06:11,120 So I'm not sure that we saw a large shift in his character. 2587 02:06:11,120 --> 02:06:15,880 Certainly his outlook, certainly his place in the scheme of 2588 02:06:15,880 --> 02:06:19,400 things has really jumped up. And who knows what's going to 2589 02:06:19,400 --> 02:06:22,520 happen in terms of his heritage going forward and his view of 2590 02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:24,000 his brother and their relationship. 2591 02:06:24,600 --> 02:06:26,760 But it's it's more of a potential for a lot of change 2592 02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:29,200 for his character than actual change like this character is. 2593 02:06:29,880 --> 02:06:31,280 We just got to know him this season. 2594 02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:36,240 He's a new character for us and he's developing Adam kind of 2595 02:06:36,240 --> 02:06:39,880 similar but different. I want to say it real quick, 2596 02:06:39,880 --> 02:06:43,680 Alan, simply saying those things out loud to Corliss, that might 2597 02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:46,640 be enough to change him too. That might release some of the 2598 02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:48,600 bitterness. You know, he's probably had 2599 02:06:48,600 --> 02:06:51,280 those thoughts in him his whole life and never told anyone. 2600 02:06:51,560 --> 02:06:54,600 And so to finally not only tell someone, but tell the person 2601 02:06:54,600 --> 02:07:00,200 that he wanted to tell it to it, it's probably somewhat of a 2602 02:07:00,200 --> 02:07:04,440 burden off of him. And and and opens the door for 2603 02:07:04,440 --> 02:07:07,240 him to move forward in a new way toward a new thing you know. 2604 02:07:07,240 --> 02:07:08,960 That's very well said. I think it's a very good point. 2605 02:07:09,360 --> 02:07:12,360 Adam didn't quite have the level of bitterness. 2606 02:07:12,360 --> 02:07:15,120 He's just more disappointed. Definitely hurt, definitely 2607 02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:17,560 struggled, but he doesn't hate their father nearly as much. 2608 02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:20,200 He does want his attention. He does want to his 2609 02:07:20,200 --> 02:07:25,160 acknowledgement, which could be something to consider as to how 2610 02:07:25,160 --> 02:07:26,640 what kind of dragon rider he'll be is. 2611 02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:28,080 Is he going to be trying to prove himself? 2612 02:07:28,080 --> 02:07:30,440 Is he going to try to earn his father's love and respect? 2613 02:07:30,680 --> 02:07:33,640 Or is he going to be his own man or something in between? 2614 02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:37,560 We'll see. He has one of the most, one of 2615 02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:42,000 the largest rises of all, but we haven't really had enough time 2616 02:07:42,000 --> 02:07:45,600 with him yet because his dragon riding is new. 2617 02:07:45,640 --> 02:07:47,280 To see how this effects him as a person. 2618 02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:51,720 We got introduced to him. He's had a humongous rise of 2619 02:07:51,720 --> 02:07:57,480 power, but not only is it not had a chance to play out, but he 2620 02:07:57,480 --> 02:07:58,960 hasn't even like been in a battle yet. 2621 02:07:58,960 --> 02:08:00,400 And that'll that. That's another thing that would 2622 02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:02,400 really have a big impact on him as well. 2623 02:08:02,400 --> 02:08:06,240 You would think a man, a shipwright, flying a dragon into 2624 02:08:06,240 --> 02:08:09,920 battle and doing whatever that means, burning people or ships 2625 02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:12,400 or armies or whatever, that that'll have an effect on you 2626 02:08:12,400 --> 02:08:14,720 too, wouldn't it? Once again, I'm not sure if it's 2627 02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:17,880 something to show would, would or could portray, but I think 2628 02:08:17,880 --> 02:08:21,920 just him flying around Harrenhal, like I sort of on 2629 02:08:21,920 --> 02:08:25,520 guard, if you will, when Rainier is talking to Damon, I think 2630 02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:26,840 that would have an impact on him. 2631 02:08:26,920 --> 02:08:29,200 Just seeing all those soldiers on the ground, just thinking 2632 02:08:29,200 --> 02:08:31,920 about like what my dragon can do. 2633 02:08:31,920 --> 02:08:35,040 Like it my dragon could kill all those men and I might have to if 2634 02:08:35,040 --> 02:08:38,680 it's a bad guy army or a bad guy dragon could kill all those men 2635 02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:40,320 and I might have to defend against that. 2636 02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:43,440 Like some of the reality, what he might have to do as a dragon 2637 02:08:43,440 --> 02:08:47,000 rider might have come into focus on that little adventure with 2638 02:08:47,000 --> 02:08:48,120 Reneira. That's true. 2639 02:08:48,120 --> 02:08:50,600 You think about the the level of devastation that's possible, but 2640 02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:53,720 you also think about the level of responsibility for somebody 2641 02:08:53,720 --> 02:08:54,840 that wants to protect against that. 2642 02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:58,040 Like what kind of danger would he put himself in or not if he's 2643 02:08:58,040 --> 02:09:00,960 not, if he's afraid or unable to? 2644 02:09:01,240 --> 02:09:03,560 Maybe not afraid is the right word, but just unable to be 2645 02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:05,600 brave enough. I mean, I think he is thinking 2646 02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:07,800 about that already because we see that conversation between 2647 02:09:07,800 --> 02:09:09,640 him and ulf where he's. Exactly to see. 2648 02:09:09,640 --> 02:09:11,720 Who's going to be a coward or not, right? 2649 02:09:11,720 --> 02:09:13,280 Yeah, he says that you're right. That's good. 2650 02:09:13,440 --> 02:09:16,200 Perfect foreshadowing. There's plenty of time for us to 2651 02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:18,560 see who the coward will be. You know, it might be neither of 2652 02:09:18,560 --> 02:09:19,640 them. It might be both of them. 2653 02:09:19,680 --> 02:09:21,360 Yeah, who knows? Yeah, you know, it's just funny 2654 02:09:21,360 --> 02:09:23,520 because, I mean, yeah, he says that it might be this perfect 2655 02:09:23,520 --> 02:09:25,600 bit of irony because Adam is a coward. 2656 02:09:25,840 --> 02:09:28,280 Actually. I get a good vibe from Adam, but 2657 02:09:28,280 --> 02:09:31,320 you know, like it is a good point that you could turn it 2658 02:09:31,320 --> 02:09:32,680 around. Turns out he's afraid of 2659 02:09:32,680 --> 02:09:34,920 heights. You know, it's like, Oh my God, 2660 02:09:34,920 --> 02:09:36,280 this. I'm so not cut out for this. 2661 02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:39,680 I actually would really like to see ulf in particular, but ulf 2662 02:09:39,680 --> 02:09:44,040 or Hugh have some kind of PTSD and trauma from the red sewing. 2663 02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,360 He was like ulf I pointed out how ulf was all scared of the, 2664 02:09:47,360 --> 02:09:49,880 the, the torch for a moment. He's got startled, you know, and 2665 02:09:49,880 --> 02:09:54,200 he's like, oh fuck yeah. I would like to see him a little 2666 02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:59,720 bit more scared or edgy about it all than the average dragon 2667 02:09:59,720 --> 02:10:02,480 rider among them like Ulf and Hugh specifically. 2668 02:10:02,880 --> 02:10:06,240 Absolutely. So let's talk about ulf briefly 2669 02:10:06,640 --> 02:10:11,120 talk about another large rise, a more unlikely rise perhaps than 2670 02:10:11,120 --> 02:10:14,120 than even Adams. Talk about stories coming to 2671 02:10:14,120 --> 02:10:19,080 life like this is something out of a story like Drunken Drawler 2672 02:10:19,320 --> 02:10:23,080 to Drunken Dragon Rider. Like, how does that even happen? 2673 02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:26,000 Well, we saw how it happened. It was pretty awesome, pretty 2674 02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:28,680 cool, a great story. It was compelling and fun and 2675 02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:30,120 unusual. But it's just getting started. 2676 02:10:30,120 --> 02:10:31,160 I saw it. It's a better story than all. 2677 02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:34,800 No one. No one. 2678 02:10:35,080 --> 02:10:37,480 I mean, he's a better storyteller than most people in 2679 02:10:37,480 --> 02:10:39,520 in. He's a certified yapper, better 2680 02:10:39,520 --> 02:10:41,280 than brand. He has the gift of gab. 2681 02:10:41,360 --> 02:10:43,240 Yeah. He's not a poor communicator. 2682 02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:47,560 I mean, he's a communicator, but he is a, he's a poor 2683 02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:49,760 communicator. He's literally poor Aziz. 2684 02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:53,160 Got me there, he got me there, but. 2685 02:10:53,160 --> 02:10:56,880 Also, I wouldn't call his communication to Jace effective. 2686 02:10:57,800 --> 02:10:59,240 He's not very good at reading the room. 2687 02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:02,080 Yeah, not very good at that, but he sure is entertaining. 2688 02:11:02,480 --> 02:11:05,280 We caught a great joke. By the way, Sean, I'm writing 2689 02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:08,040 the breakdown for episode 8, and I thought I'd share this with 2690 02:11:08,040 --> 02:11:14,160 you all while we while we have a minute, it's Alf telling Jace 2691 02:11:14,240 --> 02:11:17,240 we're cut from the same cloth. And then later when they're 2692 02:11:17,240 --> 02:11:19,720 getting dressed, he's pretty much wearing the same outfit as 2693 02:11:19,720 --> 02:11:21,240 Jace. So he's like literally cut from. 2694 02:11:21,240 --> 02:11:22,600 He's like, this is cut from the same cloth. 2695 02:11:24,040 --> 02:11:26,000 Yeah, which? Also points to him not wanting 2696 02:11:26,000 --> 02:11:28,840 to be as much in combat. He's not in the armor, he's in a 2697 02:11:28,840 --> 02:11:29,600 doublet. He's. 2698 02:11:29,600 --> 02:11:31,720 More like Eamon, Yeah. Eamon doesn't wear armor either. 2699 02:11:31,720 --> 02:11:33,640 He's in the Jace, the Eamon fit. You know they're not. 2700 02:11:33,640 --> 02:11:36,320 They don't wear armor, but Adam and Hugh get armor. 2701 02:11:37,200 --> 02:11:41,240 Yeah, Adam and Hugh were pretty much all in black and Jason 2702 02:11:41,240 --> 02:11:44,960 Olfer in black and red, right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. 2703 02:11:44,960 --> 02:11:47,240 Yeah. And Hugh with his hidden 2704 02:11:47,240 --> 02:11:50,280 heritage surprise, Well, except for the hair, it's it wasn't 2705 02:11:50,280 --> 02:11:52,320 that hidden though, right. Like even Sean, like you're the 2706 02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:54,800 one, you didn't read the book and you're like, that guy looks 2707 02:11:54,800 --> 02:11:57,680 Targaryen. Like, like, yeah, yeah, you're 2708 02:11:57,680 --> 02:11:59,560 right. So it wasn't that hidden. 2709 02:11:59,840 --> 02:12:02,880 The surprise was the specific connection to Sarah Targaryen, 2710 02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:05,600 which was like, that was really cool for us book readers, was a 2711 02:12:05,600 --> 02:12:08,200 great reveal. I like that it fit pretty well 2712 02:12:08,200 --> 02:12:09,680 with what was already laid out in Fire and Blood. 2713 02:12:10,120 --> 02:12:14,920 So he goes from desperate starving family man to dragon 2714 02:12:14,920 --> 02:12:18,560 rider family man. What a change. 2715 02:12:18,560 --> 02:12:22,200 Big difference like from from popper to power. 2716 02:12:23,240 --> 02:12:25,840 Unfortunately it didn't come before he could save his child. 2717 02:12:27,400 --> 02:12:30,240 Eating nothing to eating whatever he wants, little birds 2718 02:12:30,240 --> 02:12:33,280 or no. And so far, he hasn't even, 2719 02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:36,880 like, seemingly communicated with his wife. 2720 02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:39,360 That's like, where is there? Are they gonna get to talk? 2721 02:12:39,360 --> 02:12:42,200 Is he gonna somehow be able to? How's he gonna get a message to 2722 02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:42,840 her? Where is she? 2723 02:12:42,840 --> 02:12:45,120 Did she go to Tumbleton? Was it send this message to 2724 02:12:45,120 --> 02:12:46,520 Tumbleton for Cat? Yeah. 2725 02:12:46,960 --> 02:12:48,800 Like, how do they deliver that to her? 2726 02:12:48,800 --> 02:12:50,280 Like, I I don't know what. I don't know how that's gonna 2727 02:12:50,280 --> 02:12:51,720 play out. But certainly the fact that he's 2728 02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:55,560 married matters. Ulph doesn't really have prior 2729 02:12:55,760 --> 02:12:57,720 Ulph's drinking buddies. It doesn't really matter that 2730 02:12:57,720 --> 02:12:58,880 much. I'm sure he wants to see them 2731 02:12:58,880 --> 02:13:02,760 and show off, but that's not some great conflict building 2732 02:13:02,760 --> 02:13:04,600 there. And Adam with his brother and 2733 02:13:04,600 --> 02:13:06,440 father there's that's very interesting. 2734 02:13:06,440 --> 02:13:11,680 Hughes got a wife, but it's harder to see how that will play 2735 02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:15,160 out or even logistically come to bear. 2736 02:13:15,160 --> 02:13:16,440 Like do you have any thoughts on that, Sean? 2737 02:13:17,120 --> 02:13:20,200 Mostly my thoughts are around the idea of her being an 2738 02:13:20,200 --> 02:13:23,320 innocent person. You know, she's just this, you 2739 02:13:23,320 --> 02:13:27,960 know, faceless part of the mass. He might burn in some other 2740 02:13:27,960 --> 02:13:30,200 city. I wonder if he'll have any sort 2741 02:13:30,200 --> 02:13:34,920 of empathy as a just a citizen in a town that might get burned 2742 02:13:34,920 --> 02:13:37,760 by a dragon and he's going to go to some town and burn the 2743 02:13:37,760 --> 02:13:40,480 citizens with his dragon. I don't know if that would bring 2744 02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:43,360 him back from doing it or. I mean, I was happy in that 2745 02:13:43,360 --> 02:13:46,520 finale scene when he's talking Hugh, it's Hugh and Bayla that 2746 02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:49,080 ball, right? Like of the dragon seeds though 2747 02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:53,080 I'm sure the others didn't like weren't into the idea but only 2748 02:13:53,080 --> 02:13:55,360 to voice their concerns right then. 2749 02:13:55,360 --> 02:13:57,920 And it is Hugh and Bayla. Yeah, I doubt. 2750 02:13:58,120 --> 02:14:00,000 I doubt either of them were happy, but I'm like, yeah, let's 2751 02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:01,240 go burn people. That sounds great. 2752 02:14:01,240 --> 02:14:03,280 I can't wait. Yeah, but yeah, you're right. 2753 02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:09,240 Those box are worth taking note of for sure, Guilty, Undertaker 2754 02:14:09,240 --> 02:14:10,560 says. I did hear a funny comment that 2755 02:14:10,560 --> 02:14:13,160 Vermithor likes Hugh because he has silver hair, a silver beard, 2756 02:14:13,160 --> 02:14:15,320 and never listens to his wife's sensible advice. 2757 02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:20,680 Well, he listened. Jerry's listened to Alison 2758 02:14:20,680 --> 02:14:23,800 sometimes. I will say on that subject, I 2759 02:14:23,800 --> 02:14:27,520 did see Kieran, I quoted it in our coverage, the Red Sewing 2760 02:14:27,520 --> 02:14:28,640 episode, so I won't go too into it. 2761 02:14:28,640 --> 02:14:30,640 But Kieran Beau had a great interview where he talked a lot 2762 02:14:30,640 --> 02:14:33,000 about his thoughts on the character of Hugh and his 2763 02:14:33,000 --> 02:14:35,600 dynamic and his relationship with Vermithor, his relationship 2764 02:14:35,600 --> 02:14:38,200 with his mother and grandfather Jaharis. 2765 02:14:38,200 --> 02:14:40,720 And he the thing that he brought up that I thought was so 2766 02:14:40,720 --> 02:14:42,760 brilliant and like really spoke to how much he really thought 2767 02:14:42,760 --> 02:14:46,640 about it was he said that he felt that Hugh and Jaharis both 2768 02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:51,000 felt a lack of control. They wanted to have control over 2769 02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:54,240 things they couldn't, that they both even watched like one of 2770 02:14:54,240 --> 02:14:56,720 their like their daughter die from illness, which is like the 2771 02:14:56,720 --> 02:15:00,040 ultimate kind of lack of control type of thing, right? 2772 02:15:00,040 --> 02:15:03,120 Like you, you just want to save your child and you can't because 2773 02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:05,160 you can't save them from sickness, right? 2774 02:15:05,320 --> 02:15:08,240 You feel very powerless despite being someone who has all of 2775 02:15:08,240 --> 02:15:10,280 this power. Like you are the king, yet you 2776 02:15:10,640 --> 02:15:12,760 can't control the things you most want to control. 2777 02:15:12,880 --> 02:15:15,960 Anyways, I thought that was very astute from cure and view in 2778 02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:18,920 terms of I, I do see that comparison between the two of 2779 02:15:18,920 --> 02:15:23,000 them and and really in terms of any patriarch, matriarch, any 2780 02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:26,120 head of a family, head of a household I think would have 2781 02:15:26,120 --> 02:15:28,760 those similarities, you know. Right on. 2782 02:15:29,040 --> 02:15:32,440 Well said. Sir Simon Strong, another 2783 02:15:32,680 --> 02:15:36,320 character who founds him, finds himself in a very different 2784 02:15:36,320 --> 02:15:38,080 position. From the quickest bent knee 2785 02:15:38,080 --> 02:15:46,720 ever, to which was dinner with his family, to countless new 2786 02:15:46,720 --> 02:15:49,760 structures and repairs on his castle, and from just like a few 2787 02:15:49,760 --> 02:15:52,680 people at Harrenhal to an army of thousands and the Queen's 2788 02:15:52,680 --> 02:15:55,120 gratitude and more. It's a pretty big turn around 2789 02:15:55,120 --> 02:15:57,160 for this guy who was just like, I can't even keep up with the 2790 02:15:57,160 --> 02:15:58,600 upkeep with his castle. It's dripping. 2791 02:15:58,600 --> 02:16:04,120 There's huge vast piles of bat poop in one of the towers. 2792 02:16:04,120 --> 02:16:07,520 Like we're overrun by bat poop. That's how unable we are to keep 2793 02:16:07,520 --> 02:16:10,840 up with the repairs here. All of a sudden, river Lords are 2794 02:16:10,840 --> 02:16:14,840 there building Damon's chopping wood and building structures. 2795 02:16:14,840 --> 02:16:18,880 I mean, yeah, this is a big change for him and his position 2796 02:16:18,880 --> 02:16:22,440 in the world. He thought he was witnessing 2797 02:16:22,440 --> 02:16:26,320 treason calls for Rainier, and it just worked out great because 2798 02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:30,640 he he wasn't planning treason. But it was really good timing 2799 02:16:30,640 --> 02:16:32,480 for Rainier to show up, as it turns out. 2800 02:16:32,840 --> 02:16:38,760 So I give him the same little clap he gave at the end there. 2801 02:16:38,760 --> 02:16:41,840 Just it's like, hey, this is working out great. 2802 02:16:42,040 --> 02:16:44,680 Yeah. Someone at our City Winery event 2803 02:16:44,680 --> 02:16:48,000 dressed up in a Simon Strong inspired fit. 2804 02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:51,120 He had this purple and gold kind of brocade robe. 2805 02:16:51,120 --> 02:16:52,799 It was real, real drippy with it. 2806 02:16:52,920 --> 02:16:55,240 With shorts, yeah. With shorts just quite warm. 2807 02:16:55,480 --> 02:16:59,040 And yeah, I brought him out. I got about a big, big applause, 2808 02:16:59,040 --> 02:17:01,160 you know, and he was everyone, everyone knew that. 2809 02:17:01,320 --> 02:17:04,799 Simon has has the great fits. Purple and gold, really. 2810 02:17:04,799 --> 02:17:06,840 It's hard to not associate with with Simon now. 2811 02:17:06,840 --> 02:17:09,360 Yeah. So this individual called 2812 02:17:09,360 --> 02:17:15,000 themselves Stephen Strong, which reminds us of our good friend 2813 02:17:15,000 --> 02:17:17,719 Stephen Stark. Stephen Stark's real name is 2814 02:17:17,719 --> 02:17:19,760 Stephen Stark. This I don't this this 2815 02:17:19,760 --> 02:17:21,360 gentleman's name. It wasn't actually Stephen 2816 02:17:21,360 --> 02:17:23,959 Strong, but we'll we like that. It fits. 2817 02:17:24,080 --> 02:17:26,680 It's great. So shout out to you, both of 2818 02:17:26,680 --> 02:17:29,040 you, Strong and Stark. Yeah. 2819 02:17:29,040 --> 02:17:30,719 I hope that. Which, by the way, is the same 2820 02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:32,160 word in German. I don't know if y'all remember 2821 02:17:32,160 --> 02:17:36,879 that the translation of Stark in German is Strong. 2822 02:17:37,680 --> 02:17:40,360 So like someone Michael Klarfeld tells us that this can be 2823 02:17:40,360 --> 02:17:42,240 confusing. You're reading about the strongs 2824 02:17:42,240 --> 02:17:45,160 when they're the Starks and then the strongs are also the 2825 02:17:45,160 --> 02:17:49,160 strongs. It's a little that's tricky. 2826 02:17:51,799 --> 02:17:53,400 Alice Rivers we will discuss separately. 2827 02:17:53,400 --> 02:17:55,280 She's way too big for one episode. 2828 02:17:56,080 --> 02:17:59,040 We'll that'll be part of our episode with Joe Magician in two 2829 02:17:59,040 --> 02:18:00,400 weeks. We'll talk Harrenhal. 2830 02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:03,240 Alice Rivers. That episode is is tentatively 2831 02:18:03,240 --> 02:18:08,240 titled The Old God's Eye. Yes, play on words as we are 2832 02:18:08,240 --> 02:18:11,799 want to do. There's quite a few other 2833 02:18:11,799 --> 02:18:16,360 characters on the Blacks that are not quite Tier 1-2 or maybe 2834 02:18:16,360 --> 02:18:19,959 even Tier 3, and there's just a longer list of characters that 2835 02:18:19,959 --> 02:18:21,719 fit here for the Blacks and the Greens. 2836 02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:25,360 Young Joffrey, Young Aegon, Young Viserys, these little 2837 02:18:25,360 --> 02:18:27,160 princelings that are too young to do much. 2838 02:18:27,639 --> 02:18:31,280 Maestro Girardis, you know, well, we mentioned Orwell, so we 2839 02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:32,360 may as well mention Gerardis, right? 2840 02:18:32,360 --> 02:18:35,040 Lord Seltegar, the guy who got slapped, he's he's been in and 2841 02:18:35,040 --> 02:18:39,559 out, he's on the council. Lord Massey, he's around his 2842 02:18:39,559 --> 02:18:42,480 daughter of course, as well. Alinda, very important. 2843 02:18:43,440 --> 02:18:46,200 She, her running Mazar is propaganda, but we don't have a 2844 02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:47,320 lot to say about her as a character. 2845 02:18:47,320 --> 02:18:49,200 Her actions were important, but we don't really know her 2846 02:18:49,200 --> 02:18:52,040 personality very well. Much worse braider than 2847 02:18:52,040 --> 02:18:55,520 Rainier's current handmaiden, because Rainier's braids have 2848 02:18:55,520 --> 02:18:59,440 levelled up since Elinda left. Like I swear to swear to you, if 2849 02:18:59,440 --> 02:19:03,320 you look before and after, it is a clear line at which she has a 2850 02:19:03,320 --> 02:19:05,120 new handmaid in and it cracks me up. 2851 02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:07,520 Elinda the Braider is not her nickname. 2852 02:19:07,639 --> 02:19:11,680 Yeah, so we also got Deanna. It was kind of a surprise return 2853 02:19:11,680 --> 02:19:14,240 from her, but I'm glad they got to sneak her in there with a 2854 02:19:14,240 --> 02:19:16,360 fitting role. Going against Aegon, that made a 2855 02:19:16,360 --> 02:19:18,240 lot of sense. Going against the green Sylvie 2856 02:19:18,240 --> 02:19:19,600 as well. Going against Eamon, the two of 2857 02:19:19,600 --> 02:19:22,040 them were like we were, they were each jilted by one of the 2858 02:19:22,040 --> 02:19:24,680 brothers. Sir Alfred Broom, of course, his 2859 02:19:24,680 --> 02:19:27,080 role is there. Sir Laurent Marbrand. 2860 02:19:27,080 --> 02:19:30,000 We got Kingsguard like I mentioned, Sir Rickard Thorn for 2861 02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:31,799 the Greens. And now we've we're down to just 2862 02:19:31,799 --> 02:19:34,760 the one recognizable Kingsguard for the for the Blacks as well, 2863 02:19:34,760 --> 02:19:37,360 because Eric is gone and Stefan was burned to death. 2864 02:19:37,879 --> 02:19:41,120 RIP both Eric and Eric, I mourn you both. 2865 02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:43,799 You both thought you were, you know, doing the right thing. 2866 02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:46,000 Like Eric wasn't just like some evil knight. 2867 02:19:46,040 --> 02:19:48,320 Like they were both just doing their best. 2868 02:19:48,640 --> 02:19:51,160 And we wonder about, as we just did, we wonder about Cat. 2869 02:19:51,160 --> 02:19:53,160 Like, where is that going to go with with Hugh? 2870 02:19:53,160 --> 02:19:56,160 Like she's not really on the black side, but she's her 2871 02:19:56,160 --> 02:19:58,800 husband is. So she kind of is by default. 2872 02:19:58,800 --> 02:20:00,800 It makes more sense to include her on this list than it does to 2873 02:20:00,800 --> 02:20:02,080 include her with the Greens, that's for sure. 2874 02:20:02,720 --> 02:20:06,280 And RIP Rainis and Malis, Lord Darkland and Stephon Darkland, 2875 02:20:06,280 --> 02:20:08,600 the Darklands really took it on the chin in this season. 2876 02:20:09,360 --> 02:20:12,440 And Lord Staunton who was executed at Rooks Rest as well, 2877 02:20:12,520 --> 02:20:13,640 who died. As we said. 2878 02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:18,200 Yeah, now who's who. Here's who the Blacks have on 2879 02:20:18,200 --> 02:20:20,560 their team, apart from their main pass. 2880 02:20:20,560 --> 02:20:24,320 Let's not forget Stark, we got a marching army there that we saw 2881 02:20:24,320 --> 02:20:26,280 right at the end. We got Valerian of course. 2882 02:20:26,280 --> 02:20:28,400 They've had, they've been on this on their team for a while, 2883 02:20:28,600 --> 02:20:32,640 The Lords of the Narrow Sea, Massey and Celtagar and Sharp 2884 02:20:32,640 --> 02:20:34,800 Points now, not very useful, but there's others. 2885 02:20:36,040 --> 02:20:39,760 Riverlands, of course, are on their side pretty fully now, but 2886 02:20:39,760 --> 02:20:44,120 it's interesting to to remind ourselves that House Frey's deal 2887 02:20:44,120 --> 02:20:47,960 with the Crown is different than the rest of the River Lords deal 2888 02:20:48,320 --> 02:20:51,400 with, say, Damon and Rainier, because they got Jace to agree 2889 02:20:51,400 --> 02:20:54,840 to give them Harrenhal, which that could be sticky later. 2890 02:20:54,840 --> 02:20:55,720 I don't know how that could play. 2891 02:20:55,720 --> 02:20:58,600 I like, it's like, yeah, like what's how's that? 2892 02:20:58,680 --> 02:21:02,080 Yeah, can't be much stickier than Thailand giving the 2893 02:21:02,080 --> 02:21:04,440 Stepstones to the Trier. That's also sticky. 2894 02:21:04,440 --> 02:21:07,000 You're not wrong. That's the very big problem 2895 02:21:07,000 --> 02:21:09,200 there. Let's by the way, I want to 2896 02:21:09,200 --> 02:21:17,440 remind everybody of Johanna Swan was captured in season one by 2897 02:21:17,440 --> 02:21:20,160 the Triarchy. And they talked about it and I 2898 02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:23,520 think episode 3 on the episode with the stag hunt and they 2899 02:21:23,520 --> 02:21:27,920 mentioned her as a, a character that was captured and her ransom 2900 02:21:27,920 --> 02:21:29,880 wasn't paid for. So if you're a book reader, 2901 02:21:30,080 --> 02:21:35,680 Joanna Swan has a has a role in the Triarchy going forward. 2902 02:21:35,920 --> 02:21:38,400 So that's something we'll talk about later. 2903 02:21:38,400 --> 02:21:40,360 But I wanted to throw that out there because it's easy to miss, 2904 02:21:40,360 --> 02:21:42,280 but I can't say specifically because of Sean. 2905 02:21:42,280 --> 02:21:48,480 Sean, we can't spoil Sean. Also Beesbury and Tarly and 2906 02:21:48,480 --> 02:21:51,360 other reachlords who maybe aren't fully committed to the 2907 02:21:51,360 --> 02:21:53,360 Blacks, but they're definitely against the Greens. 2908 02:21:53,680 --> 02:21:56,000 So they're basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend type 2909 02:21:56,000 --> 02:22:00,320 situation. The Aaron's committed 15,000 2910 02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:02,200 troops to Rainier, but they haven't marched. 2911 02:22:02,360 --> 02:22:05,720 They haven't, they weren't seen in that montage of marching and 2912 02:22:05,720 --> 02:22:11,520 that's probably because of she feels like she got scammed by 2913 02:22:11,840 --> 02:22:16,320 the lack of dragon protection which may work itself out with 2914 02:22:16,600 --> 02:22:21,280 Reyna or not. So Reyna can really use those 2915 02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:23,800 15,000 troops but they aren't. They're not currently marching. 2916 02:22:25,000 --> 02:22:28,680 That is an interesting thought. By the way, let's say Reyna does 2917 02:22:29,440 --> 02:22:33,960 tame Cheap Stealer. OK, just stay there in the veil 2918 02:22:33,960 --> 02:22:35,440 and protect the veil. That's what we promised. 2919 02:22:35,440 --> 02:22:36,720 Just stay there. Don't do anything. 2920 02:22:36,720 --> 02:22:38,200 Does that work, the 15,000 troops? 2921 02:22:38,200 --> 02:22:40,360 Or it's like, Nah, you keep your 15,000 troops, this Dragon's 2922 02:22:40,360 --> 02:22:41,520 more valuable. Let's go. 2923 02:22:41,640 --> 02:22:44,000 Yeah. Would she be willing to do that? 2924 02:22:44,000 --> 02:22:46,800 Would she obey that command? Do they send Bayla to go watch 2925 02:22:46,800 --> 02:22:47,960 the veil 'cause we need the bigger? 2926 02:22:47,960 --> 02:22:52,080 Dragon hey, Moon Dancer would be a little more effective. 2927 02:22:52,280 --> 02:22:54,000 Yeah, that's. Interesting to be like, Hey 2928 02:22:54,000 --> 02:22:56,880 Aymond, I heard you need a new dragon rider. 2929 02:22:58,000 --> 02:22:59,920 Yeah, right. No, I don't think so. 2930 02:22:59,920 --> 02:23:02,520 Rain, Rain Aymond. Rain Aymond. 2931 02:23:02,880 --> 02:23:05,840 You know Allison's switch sides and now rain is going to jump 2932 02:23:06,080 --> 02:23:10,040 green. Now, the Greens also, or the 2933 02:23:10,040 --> 02:23:12,920 Blacks also, should have Pentos sort of as an ally. 2934 02:23:12,920 --> 02:23:14,840 They have Prince Reggio, who's a passive ally. 2935 02:23:14,840 --> 02:23:17,400 He's not like they haven't asked him for troops or ships or 2936 02:23:17,400 --> 02:23:20,200 anything like that, but he's guarding their children and 2937 02:23:20,200 --> 02:23:23,160 their eggs apparently. So the plot lines. 2938 02:23:23,160 --> 02:23:25,320 Let's go through the plot lines to remind ourselves of what 2939 02:23:25,320 --> 02:23:27,120 happened with the Blacks this season. 2940 02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:30,520 There's the the plot line in the North grieving for Luke. 2941 02:23:31,520 --> 02:23:34,040 The blockade has been a plot line all season long. 2942 02:23:34,200 --> 02:23:36,760 Blood and Cheese was a pretty big deal that moved a lot of 2943 02:23:36,760 --> 02:23:39,080 things around. The Black Council's frustrations 2944 02:23:39,080 --> 02:23:41,000 were an on and off thing all season long. 2945 02:23:41,320 --> 02:23:44,040 Not finished either. They're still frustrated with 2946 02:23:44,040 --> 02:23:45,560 Rainier. The the frustrations have 2947 02:23:45,560 --> 02:23:47,520 changed. Rather than her not doing 2948 02:23:47,520 --> 02:23:50,640 enough, they're now she's not doing, she's not telling them 2949 02:23:50,640 --> 02:23:53,640 what she's doing. And they maybe also object to 2950 02:23:53,840 --> 02:23:57,480 some of the decisions to burn cities, which may or may not 2951 02:23:57,480 --> 02:23:59,440 actually happen. Herron Hall's plot line 2952 02:23:59,440 --> 02:24:04,680 obviously multifaceted. Damon's character change, big 2953 02:24:04,680 --> 02:24:07,960 part of it, tying into the prophecy, big part of it, and of 2954 02:24:07,960 --> 02:24:12,080 course winning the River Lords, big part of it was almost like a 2955 02:24:12,640 --> 02:24:15,200 three headed plot. Those were the big things there. 2956 02:24:15,200 --> 02:24:19,040 I think that you could say with subplots aplenty, the phrase the 2957 02:24:19,040 --> 02:24:22,120 Brackwoods and Brackens, Blackwoods and Brackens, I did 2958 02:24:22,120 --> 02:24:25,120 it again, Tullys and all that stuff. 2959 02:24:25,120 --> 02:24:27,600 So there was quite a bit of extra, a lot of things that 2960 02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:31,120 mixed into that bag there. The Rooks rest pretty huge. 2961 02:24:31,120 --> 02:24:35,400 The response to it, the death of Rainies, was a big deal that 2962 02:24:35,400 --> 02:24:38,080 kicked off some of the other plot lines, Corliss's grief, but 2963 02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:41,000 also led to the red sewing. The Damon and Rainier and 2964 02:24:41,000 --> 02:24:44,800 Mazaria love triangle. It's not really a triangle, is 2965 02:24:44,800 --> 02:24:47,480 it? But it is three people, so they 2966 02:24:47,480 --> 02:24:50,160 can kind of make a triangle. But Mazaria doesn't know about 2967 02:24:50,160 --> 02:24:52,840 the prophecy, as I said, Damon does now. 2968 02:24:52,840 --> 02:24:54,920 So Damon and Rainier both know the prophecy and Mazaria 2969 02:24:54,920 --> 02:24:57,320 doesn't. But Damon and Rainier maybe 2970 02:24:57,320 --> 02:25:00,800 don't have a functioning intimate relationship anymore. 2971 02:25:00,800 --> 02:25:03,480 Or maybe they do, but Mazaria and Rainier seem too. 2972 02:25:03,480 --> 02:25:08,320 So that whole thing is fraught with possibility, both good and 2973 02:25:08,320 --> 02:25:11,040 bad. Lady Jane Aaron's hesitation, of 2974 02:25:11,040 --> 02:25:14,640 course, this has to do with troops not being employed right 2975 02:25:14,640 --> 02:25:16,600 now or sent. That's related to that. 2976 02:25:16,600 --> 02:25:19,560 Sending away the prince's hatchlings and eggs to Pentos. 2977 02:25:20,120 --> 02:25:23,480 That probably isn't just to there off the on the shelf for 2978 02:25:23,480 --> 02:25:24,680 now. There's more that could happen 2979 02:25:24,680 --> 02:25:26,440 with that. That's all sorts of potential 2980 02:25:26,440 --> 02:25:27,920 there. You mentioned it at the time, 2981 02:25:27,920 --> 02:25:29,080 Sean. That's putting your eggs in one 2982 02:25:29,080 --> 02:25:30,440 basket in a different sort of way. 2983 02:25:31,880 --> 02:25:33,960 Obviously, Renaissance for Sheep Steel are still ongoing. 2984 02:25:34,360 --> 02:25:37,760 Hugh Ulf the common folk of King's Landing loved having that 2985 02:25:37,760 --> 02:25:40,000 as a plot line this season. We didn't have hardly any view 2986 02:25:40,000 --> 02:25:41,240 into the common folk last season. 2987 02:25:41,240 --> 02:25:44,120 That's one thing I praise about Season 2 that season one didn't 2988 02:25:44,120 --> 02:25:46,440 really have. So that's really good. 2989 02:25:46,440 --> 02:25:50,280 And it wasn't just Hugh and Ulf, it was also Sylvie and Diana and 2990 02:25:50,280 --> 02:25:54,320 these Gold Cloaks, other random folks like ulf's friends. 2991 02:25:54,520 --> 02:25:57,360 You know, there's a lot of that. You know, I hope when you know, 2992 02:25:57,360 --> 02:26:00,120 you're asking my predictions, I mean, and maybe I mixed in a 2993 02:26:00,120 --> 02:26:02,360 little bit of what I thought might happen and what I kind of 2994 02:26:02,360 --> 02:26:05,440 wanted to happen. I hope next season the entire 2995 02:26:05,440 --> 02:26:08,560 the entire cast of our flag means death gets incorporated 2996 02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:12,520 into the triarchy. Yes, Sean, we already got 2997 02:26:12,520 --> 02:26:13,480 Alawande. Yeah, yeah. 2998 02:26:15,720 --> 02:26:18,080 When did they focus on it? Kind of like we got a little 2999 02:26:18,080 --> 02:26:21,320 focus on some of the small folk of King's Landing in the midst 3000 02:26:21,320 --> 02:26:23,760 of all the other grander stuff. I want to get a little focus on 3001 02:26:23,760 --> 02:26:26,960 one ship in the Triarchy in the midst of all the grander stuff, 3002 02:26:26,960 --> 02:26:32,920 and that ship to be captained by Steve Bonnet. 3003 02:26:32,960 --> 02:26:35,200 That's. Steve Bonnet, The least fearsome 3004 02:26:35,200 --> 02:26:37,160 name of all time. Like your name is Bonnet. 3005 02:26:37,160 --> 02:26:38,960 Like how? And your name is Steed. 3006 02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:41,480 Like Steed is something you ride. 3007 02:26:41,920 --> 02:26:44,440 I know it's spelled differently, but it's not the thing that 3008 02:26:44,440 --> 02:26:47,800 leads, it's the vehicle on. Bonnet gets ridden in that show. 3009 02:26:48,640 --> 02:26:49,720 Yeah, that's true. He does get rid. 3010 02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:54,680 He does get, but his his name sounds like horse hat, steed 3011 02:26:54,680 --> 02:26:55,800 bonnet. I mean, yeah, horse hat, horse 3012 02:26:55,800 --> 02:26:56,080 hat. That's. 3013 02:26:57,800 --> 02:27:00,680 Hilarious. Watch Our flag means death. 3014 02:27:01,560 --> 02:27:02,800 Yeah, our flag means death is great. 3015 02:27:02,800 --> 02:27:06,440 Two seasons of of excellence. It would be another Game of 3016 02:27:06,440 --> 02:27:09,320 Thrones actor on House of the Dragon cause Christian Nair and 3017 02:27:09,320 --> 02:27:13,280 AKA Hodor is on our flag means death as is his dark right. 3018 02:27:13,280 --> 02:27:14,480 That would be two. I kind of forgot. 3019 02:27:14,480 --> 02:27:18,120 Yeah, that'd be two characters. His DAR, His Dark materials 3020 02:27:18,880 --> 02:27:20,360 would be on no? He wasn't in that. 3021 02:27:20,560 --> 02:27:22,960 No, he wasn't in that, but his name fits really well. 3022 02:27:23,320 --> 02:27:26,800 Yeah, so the red selling, of course, huge plot line, one of 3023 02:27:26,840 --> 02:27:28,440 the biggest plot lines of the season. 3024 02:27:28,440 --> 02:27:31,520 And not only because it's huge in in how it obviously affects 3025 02:27:31,520 --> 02:27:34,720 the plot, but it happened so late in the season that we have 3026 02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:36,480 yet to actually see what that is. 3027 02:27:36,800 --> 02:27:39,400 We can just imagine, holy crap, this is gigantic. 3028 02:27:40,400 --> 02:27:42,720 And one of those effects is Jace's heritage and how it 3029 02:27:42,720 --> 02:27:46,360 undermines his his view of royal privilege and his claim and all 3030 02:27:46,360 --> 02:27:48,320 that. Speaking of heritage, there's 3031 02:27:48,320 --> 02:27:50,840 Allen and Adam's heritage. That's a big subplot 3032 02:27:50,840 --> 02:27:54,440 relationship with Corley's good kind of family dynamic that's 3033 02:27:54,440 --> 02:27:57,560 playing itself out. Damon's plan to March on King's 3034 02:27:57,560 --> 02:28:01,760 Landing is a strategy that appears to be going well. 3035 02:28:02,600 --> 02:28:07,960 And then the very surprising end of Allison's planning to kind of 3036 02:28:07,960 --> 02:28:11,320 hand over the keys to Rainiera, just as Damon is sort of 3037 02:28:11,320 --> 02:28:12,920 planning on marching from the other side. 3038 02:28:12,920 --> 02:28:17,240 So there's all these set up for King's Landing changing hands, 3039 02:28:17,240 --> 02:28:20,040 which it may or may not happen, but if it does, it seems like it 3040 02:28:20,040 --> 02:28:22,480 would happen pretty early in the season, along with, of course, 3041 02:28:22,480 --> 02:28:26,600 the potential conflict in the gullet, which hard to imagine 3042 02:28:26,600 --> 02:28:29,120 how that wouldn't happen. Both you got a Navy there and 3043 02:28:29,120 --> 02:28:30,760 another Navy on the way. Like what's going to happen to 3044 02:28:30,760 --> 02:28:33,920 stop that? A hurricane that would work, but 3045 02:28:33,920 --> 02:28:36,720 I doubt that's going to happen. After their experience in season 3046 02:28:36,720 --> 02:28:39,360 in the season, Aegon and Aimon both would be like good luck 3047 02:28:39,360 --> 02:28:40,960 Rainier. It's more trouble than it's 3048 02:28:40,960 --> 02:28:43,520 worth. They just have nothing but 3049 02:28:43,520 --> 02:28:45,480 trouble with having King's Landing. 3050 02:28:46,840 --> 02:28:49,760 Yeah, it's like, was it, I think Steve Van Preuen mentioned in a 3051 02:28:50,000 --> 02:28:52,600 prior episode the whole the the the two sided coin that Illyria 3052 02:28:52,600 --> 02:28:55,800 points out that there's a crown on one side and and a skull on 3053 02:28:55,800 --> 02:28:57,240 the other. And he's like, yes, to crown her 3054 02:28:57,240 --> 02:28:59,800 is to kill her. Yes, that's certainly it wasn't 3055 02:28:59,800 --> 02:29:03,440 good for Danny to win the crown. It wasn't good for like Jon Snow 3056 02:29:03,440 --> 02:29:05,960 recognized it as a danger. It wasn't good for Robb Stark to 3057 02:29:05,960 --> 02:29:09,280 win the crown. Like, yeah, these monarchs don't 3058 02:29:09,280 --> 02:29:13,480 do well in general in Game of Thrones, The Song of Ice and 3059 02:29:13,480 --> 02:29:17,880 Fire usually, like have tragic endings or violent endings or 3060 02:29:17,880 --> 02:29:21,640 violent tragic endings or yeah, maybe this will be different 3061 02:29:21,640 --> 02:29:23,960 this time. But prepare yourself for the 3062 02:29:23,960 --> 02:29:26,560 worst, just in case, you know? I'd say that's my advice, you 3063 02:29:26,560 --> 02:29:29,600 know? You know, sorry, this is a 3064 02:29:29,600 --> 02:29:31,160 thought that I meant to express earlier. 3065 02:29:31,560 --> 02:29:35,600 I, I wondered, you know, ostensibly I'm unsullied, right? 3066 02:29:35,840 --> 02:29:38,400 But I do still have some meta knowledge. 3067 02:29:38,440 --> 02:29:40,960 Like I know like King's Landing isn't going to get burned to the 3068 02:29:40,960 --> 02:29:42,520 ground. I know the targeters are going 3069 02:29:42,520 --> 02:29:46,360 to continue to rule. I had this general idea that 3070 02:29:46,360 --> 02:29:48,920 this time period was about a civil war. 3071 02:29:49,640 --> 02:29:51,600 It is interesting to think of someone who's a little more 3072 02:29:51,600 --> 02:29:54,760 purely unsullied, someone who hasn't seen Game of Thrones at 3073 02:29:54,760 --> 02:29:57,400 all and it's just started watching his show in the dark. 3074 02:29:57,400 --> 02:30:00,680 Didn't know anything about George Martin or Danny or any of 3075 02:30:00,680 --> 02:30:04,840 this other stuff. I wonder if they would predict 3076 02:30:04,840 --> 02:30:08,000 or assume that a tragic war was coming. 3077 02:30:08,200 --> 02:30:11,000 I wonder if they would feel like things were dragging out and 3078 02:30:11,000 --> 02:30:14,120 that that there needs to be an action scene or battle scene or 3079 02:30:14,240 --> 02:30:15,560 something. You know, I wonder if someone 3080 02:30:15,560 --> 02:30:21,520 who's, and probably this show is mostly, but like not mostly like 3081 02:30:21,520 --> 02:30:25,640 51%, but probably like 90% plus people who have already at least 3082 02:30:25,640 --> 02:30:27,720 seen Game of Thrones, probably not read the books but seen Game 3083 02:30:27,720 --> 02:30:29,240 of Thrones. I don't know how many people are 3084 02:30:29,240 --> 02:30:31,920 out there who are just watching us in the blind and with their 3085 02:30:31,920 --> 02:30:33,320 thoughts. If you happen to be one. 3086 02:30:33,320 --> 02:30:34,800 Of our listeners, I'm curious too. 3087 02:30:35,520 --> 02:30:39,000 Please let us know more. Likely is for our listeners to 3088 02:30:39,040 --> 02:30:42,880 have friends and family that they can regale us with stories 3089 02:30:42,880 --> 02:30:45,680 about or insights. Rather than direct listeners. 3090 02:30:45,680 --> 02:30:47,160 Yeah, they know listeners. Yeah. 3091 02:30:47,200 --> 02:30:49,040 Yeah, because there certainly are lots of people who have 3092 02:30:49,040 --> 02:30:51,440 their their family or friends. You're probably right about 3093 02:30:51,440 --> 02:30:52,040 that. Yeah. 3094 02:30:52,840 --> 02:30:55,520 Now, our families, for the most part, have read the books and 3095 02:30:55,520 --> 02:30:57,280 watched the other shows because they're so connected to us that 3096 02:30:57,280 --> 02:30:58,840 they want to be involved in what we're involved with. 3097 02:30:58,840 --> 02:30:59,400 But. Yeah. 3098 02:30:59,600 --> 02:31:00,400 Yeah. Like a Shay. 3099 02:31:00,400 --> 02:31:02,720 I mentioned her father having watched it, but it wasn't like 3100 02:31:02,720 --> 02:31:06,080 his first, wasn't for his first go around, You know I. 3101 02:31:06,080 --> 02:31:08,720 Mean you watch lots of She likes sci-fi and fantasy. 3102 02:31:08,720 --> 02:31:11,280 I was instilled that interest from my father. 3103 02:31:11,760 --> 02:31:14,080 My mom's read the books. Yeah, she's she watched the 3104 02:31:14,080 --> 02:31:16,720 original show and yeah, yeah, they're they're in. 3105 02:31:16,720 --> 02:31:20,680 They're in few questions before we say goodbye. 3106 02:31:21,280 --> 02:31:24,000 Jordan Ellis Reynolds says Now the three of you have seen two 3107 02:31:24,000 --> 02:31:26,240 seasons worth. We need a favorite dragon check. 3108 02:31:26,640 --> 02:31:27,960 OK. Yeah, that's fine. 3109 02:31:27,960 --> 02:31:28,600 I gave. We. 3110 02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:29,920 We. I think we had this question not 3111 02:31:29,920 --> 02:31:31,440 too long ago. I don't know that our answers 3112 02:31:31,440 --> 02:31:33,080 would change, but clearly not everyone heard it. 3113 02:31:33,280 --> 02:31:34,960 So why not go through it again? I'll go first. 3114 02:31:35,360 --> 02:31:38,160 Mine's Karaxis. I It's not has nothing to do 3115 02:31:38,160 --> 02:31:40,520 with Damon. I just love the long neck, you 3116 02:31:40,520 --> 02:31:43,200 know, and the, and the sounds that Karaxis makes are very 3117 02:31:43,200 --> 02:31:46,800 unique and interesting. And I'm a big sound guy like you 3118 02:31:46,800 --> 02:31:50,640 are Jordan, so I appreciate Kraxis's unique nature. 3119 02:31:50,640 --> 02:31:53,360 I think Kraxis is arguably the most unique because of sound and 3120 02:31:53,360 --> 02:31:58,480 and appearance. I'll say mine I personality wise 3121 02:31:58,480 --> 02:32:01,280 it's Sea Smoke based on the scene with Adam. 3122 02:32:02,280 --> 02:32:05,440 Aesthetic wise it's Moon Dancer based on them giving the 3123 02:32:05,440 --> 02:32:07,960 comparison to David Bowie. Moon Dancer has this little 3124 02:32:07,960 --> 02:32:11,200 Mohawk. Like those are my 2 answers 3125 02:32:11,520 --> 02:32:14,480 currently and I remember what Sean's answer was when we were 3126 02:32:14,480 --> 02:32:16,560 asked this before and his answer is dead. 3127 02:32:16,560 --> 02:32:18,600 So can you give us an alive dragon Sean? 3128 02:32:18,960 --> 02:32:23,280 His answer was Mellie's. Yeah, I, I think that I'm torn 3129 02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:26,760 between 2:00 what one I barely know anything about. 3130 02:32:26,760 --> 02:32:30,240 But aesthetically, I think Sheep Steeler looks awesome and I 3131 02:32:30,240 --> 02:32:32,240 imagine Sheep Steel listens to punk music. 3132 02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:37,440 I, I, you know, we'll, we'll see what their personality is or, 3133 02:32:37,640 --> 02:32:39,280 you know, maybe even some better visuals. 3134 02:32:39,280 --> 02:32:44,120 But, but I, what I want to pick is, is it dream fire? 3135 02:32:44,120 --> 02:32:46,160 Is that Helena's dragon? Yeah, that's Helena's dream 3136 02:32:46,160 --> 02:32:47,640 fire. Because that's the one dragon 3137 02:32:47,640 --> 02:32:49,640 that doesn't seem destined for murder. 3138 02:32:49,640 --> 02:32:51,440 That's the one I want to pick right now. 3139 02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:53,880 You are consistent, Sean. I love it, love it. 3140 02:32:54,760 --> 02:32:56,560 Not a goer at all. Not a goer. 3141 02:32:56,560 --> 02:32:57,480 Yeah, I don't know. It's a. 3142 02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:00,240 Sleeper a dreamer? That's hilarious. 3143 02:33:00,600 --> 02:33:02,640 Yeah. Also, I want to say Sean about 3144 02:33:02,640 --> 02:33:04,520 Sheep Stealer. Sheep Stealer has the coolest 3145 02:33:05,000 --> 02:33:08,800 nickname, which didn't exist as far as I know in the Fire and 3146 02:33:08,800 --> 02:33:12,520 Blood days. It's a show phenomenon that 3147 02:33:12,520 --> 02:33:16,280 people have started calling Sheep Stealer the Lamburglar. 3148 02:33:19,120 --> 02:33:23,320 That's genius. That is a joke right up my 3149 02:33:23,320 --> 02:33:24,320 alley. I love it. 3150 02:33:24,320 --> 02:33:29,240 Yes, thank you. Bogsy says Simon Says traitor 3151 02:33:29,240 --> 02:33:31,280 and sweeps Broom out of the castle. 3152 02:33:31,280 --> 02:33:33,880 Now there's some good word play sweeping Broom out of the Yeah. 3153 02:33:33,880 --> 02:33:37,400 I love how he just like retreated to the back of the 3154 02:33:37,400 --> 02:33:40,680 army when he was like, oh this is not gone how I wanted him. 3155 02:33:40,960 --> 02:33:42,440 Did you guys, I don't know if y'all saw, but there was a 3156 02:33:42,440 --> 02:33:46,720 really cute BTS video of the actor who plays Simon, Simon 3157 02:33:46,720 --> 02:33:50,080 Russell Beale, driving a little golf cart with Alfred Brooms 3158 02:33:50,080 --> 02:33:53,280 actor Jamie Kenna in it. Joanna Robinson tweeted it 3159 02:33:53,280 --> 02:33:55,160 pretty recently. If you go to her Twitter, you 3160 02:33:55,160 --> 02:33:57,080 can find a video of it. I'm sure you can find it another 3161 02:33:57,080 --> 02:33:58,360 way. That just happens to be the way 3162 02:33:58,360 --> 02:34:00,880 I can point y'all to it. But yeah, it's just this. 3163 02:34:00,880 --> 02:34:04,880 It's like a minute video of them of Simon driving Alfred Brown in 3164 02:34:04,880 --> 02:34:07,040 a golf cart. It's quite, it's quite cute. 3165 02:34:07,800 --> 02:34:10,400 He's not a traitor in that moment, you know, he's a good 3166 02:34:10,400 --> 02:34:13,200 man. Jenny P says. 3167 02:34:13,200 --> 02:34:14,760 I can't stay for the live stream, but thanks for the 3168 02:34:14,760 --> 02:34:16,000 coverage this season. It was great. 3169 02:34:16,000 --> 02:34:19,000 Well, thank you to Jenny and everybody else that was with us 3170 02:34:19,000 --> 02:34:22,240 all season long. We really appreciate you hanging 3171 02:34:22,240 --> 02:34:25,120 out with us, discussing the show with us, having all sorts of 3172 02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:30,040 fun, diving deep into a variety of topics, and well, even though 3173 02:34:30,040 --> 02:34:31,600 the season's over, we are not finished. 3174 02:34:31,600 --> 02:34:35,440 We will continue our near weekly analysis of both books and 3175 02:34:35,440 --> 02:34:36,520 shows. So stick with us. 3176 02:34:36,520 --> 02:34:39,880 Fun times don't stop. We got a question, last minute 3177 02:34:39,880 --> 02:34:42,640 question from Jill 47. Can we talk next week about your 3178 02:34:42,640 --> 02:34:47,080 thoughts on why more book fans root for the greens more often 3179 02:34:47,080 --> 02:34:50,440 than show fans, if that is so? Yes, Thank you for understanding 3180 02:34:50,440 --> 02:34:51,840 that. That will be a topic for next 3181 02:34:51,840 --> 02:34:53,080 week. Absolutely. 3182 02:34:53,080 --> 02:34:56,040 We'll keep that and we'll talk about it because yeah, I think 3183 02:34:56,040 --> 02:34:58,920 it is interesting to compare book and show fans and their 3184 02:34:58,920 --> 02:35:01,640 perception on the greens and blacks. 3185 02:35:01,680 --> 02:35:05,800 I think to me, more show fans like the green, like like the 3186 02:35:05,800 --> 02:35:09,920 green, the green. Green supporters are few and far 3187 02:35:09,920 --> 02:35:13,600 between. But more show only people like 3188 02:35:13,600 --> 02:35:16,440 the greens than book. Like I, if I was to like say, I 3189 02:35:16,440 --> 02:35:20,960 think I would say I think green fans are like 70 show only 30 3190 02:35:20,960 --> 02:35:22,720 book maybe or something like that. 3191 02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:24,800 I don't know if I'm right but. Yeah, I'm not sure what numbers 3192 02:35:24,800 --> 02:35:27,680 I'd put on that. I felt like I was going against 3193 02:35:27,680 --> 02:35:31,280 the green trying, going against the green, trying to support the 3194 02:35:31,280 --> 02:35:34,680 greens. I, I felt like, and I, I think 3195 02:35:34,680 --> 02:35:38,320 I'm a little more surrounded by, you know, book fans and I felt 3196 02:35:38,320 --> 02:35:41,160 like I was like, on thin ice saying a lot. 3197 02:35:41,840 --> 02:35:43,920 Maybe the greens aren't so bad. I felt like I was. 3198 02:35:44,280 --> 02:35:45,600 Like. What? 3199 02:35:45,600 --> 02:35:47,240 How can you Chris a cold so good. 3200 02:35:47,480 --> 02:35:50,120 You know, I felt like I was. I I think you, I'm glad you 3201 02:35:50,120 --> 02:35:52,520 stuck to your guns though, Sean, because yeah, like a lot of that 3202 02:35:52,520 --> 02:35:58,520 was from book pre deciding and including from Manichea. 3203 02:35:58,520 --> 02:36:01,360 Like we're not unguilty of that to a certain degree. 3204 02:36:01,800 --> 02:36:04,320 But yeah. And in the long term, it is more 3205 02:36:04,320 --> 02:36:06,160 about like the how the actors are played. 3206 02:36:06,160 --> 02:36:08,040 Like, you can vote, you can root for the Greens 'cause you think 3207 02:36:08,040 --> 02:36:10,240 their actors are better if you want to, Like that's a valid 3208 02:36:10,240 --> 02:36:11,760 reason to root for them, you know? 3209 02:36:11,920 --> 02:36:14,520 Like, if you like the Greens, they're more camp, they're more 3210 02:36:14,680 --> 02:36:16,400 painting to you, whatever, right? 3211 02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:20,960 But I, I, I, I don't think so many people are supportive of 3212 02:36:20,960 --> 02:36:25,040 the Greens as in they are the righteous cause yes, men should 3213 02:36:25,040 --> 02:36:27,040 rule the realm like there's. A certain. 3214 02:36:27,880 --> 02:36:29,440 Issue with that. I hope not, yeah. 3215 02:36:29,880 --> 02:36:32,120 So anyways, we're going to talk about this more next week, but 3216 02:36:32,120 --> 02:36:33,240 thanks, Jill. Appreciate it. 3217 02:36:33,280 --> 02:36:34,840 Yes, definitely. Thank you for that, Jill. 3218 02:36:34,840 --> 02:36:37,640 I agree me echo Shea with that, with that appreciation. 3219 02:36:37,640 --> 02:36:39,760 Also the rest of you if you have other questions you want us to 3220 02:36:39,760 --> 02:36:43,880 discuss for our book to show episode, basically all the 3221 02:36:43,880 --> 02:36:46,400 things that were changed, adaptational choices, 3222 02:36:46,720 --> 02:36:49,960 diversions, just all our takes on that. 3223 02:36:50,160 --> 02:36:52,720 If you have any thoughts you want to add, certainly it's a 3224 02:36:52,720 --> 02:36:58,280 big deep topic, so it's easily possible that we missed some 3225 02:36:58,280 --> 02:36:59,760 things. So yeah, hit us up if you have 3226 02:36:59,760 --> 02:37:02,200 questions or what subjects you want us to discuss, but we'll 3227 02:37:02,200 --> 02:37:04,880 have plenty to discuss regardless of what feedback we 3228 02:37:04,880 --> 02:37:06,560 get from y'all. That's how it always is. 3229 02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:12,120 All right, our trivia answer? Two other actors that were in 3230 02:37:12,120 --> 02:37:15,960 both House of the Dragon and the Game of Thrones, apart from 3231 02:37:15,960 --> 02:37:18,880 Jefferson Hall, who was of course once again Thailand and 3232 02:37:18,880 --> 02:37:20,960 Jason Lannister and Sir Hugh of the Veil. 3233 02:37:20,960 --> 02:37:24,760 In season one of Game of Thrones, Steve Van Preuen sort 3234 02:37:24,760 --> 02:37:27,360 of caught one that we didn't. Very clever answer here. 3235 02:37:27,360 --> 02:37:30,240 He says George RR Martin. George RR Martin was in the Game 3236 02:37:30,240 --> 02:37:33,480 of Thrones pilot, which didn't air, but he was in it and he's 3237 02:37:33,480 --> 02:37:36,600 the Herod Hall tree. So I'd say that counts. 3238 02:37:36,600 --> 02:37:39,800 I'll give you I said you get a shout out for naming one that I 3239 02:37:39,800 --> 02:37:41,560 didn't and there it is, Steve van Preuen. 3240 02:37:41,560 --> 02:37:43,440 Good job Steve. Actually second time getting 3241 02:37:43,440 --> 02:37:47,360 mentioned this episode so that of course that is not the one 3242 02:37:47,360 --> 02:37:51,840 that I had included. Looks like Talon Kinsfire did 3243 02:37:51,840 --> 02:37:53,560 guess correctly. I guess it wasn't a guess. 3244 02:37:53,560 --> 02:37:55,200 You know, either you know this or you don't. 3245 02:37:56,240 --> 02:38:01,720 Paul Kennedy AKA Iron Rod the counselor, he was a random guard 3246 02:38:01,880 --> 02:38:05,080 at the Erie in season five episode 2 of Game of Thrones. 3247 02:38:05,080 --> 02:38:08,400 He was just guy in a. That would blew my mind disease. 3248 02:38:08,400 --> 02:38:10,240 I did not know that little bit of trivia. 3249 02:38:10,240 --> 02:38:12,920 I I knew Eddie Ear people did guess that one. 3250 02:38:12,920 --> 02:38:15,520 OK, people knew about Eddie Ear. Eddie Ear I obviously knew 3251 02:38:15,520 --> 02:38:20,160 Jefferson Hall like doesn't, but I had no idea about iron Rod. 3252 02:38:20,160 --> 02:38:20,760 That's. Pretty cool. 3253 02:38:20,760 --> 02:38:22,120 Very. Cool little bit of trivia. 3254 02:38:22,160 --> 02:38:24,440 Yes. So Eddie Eyre Ashaya mentioned 3255 02:38:24,440 --> 02:38:29,600 he was Gerald Hightower in the Tower of Joy scene for Game of 3256 02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:33,000 Thrones and he is Sir Axel Bulwer who is just. 3257 02:38:33,000 --> 02:38:35,520 Bull and Bulwer, which is kind of funny. 3258 02:38:35,520 --> 02:38:37,360 The two I, I, I don't know, I think he's a Bull. 3259 02:38:38,000 --> 02:38:40,440 Yeah, you're probably right. So Bulwer is a house in Game of 3260 02:38:40,440 --> 02:38:43,440 Thrones already? It's it's a crown lands house. 3261 02:38:43,440 --> 02:38:45,040 Maybe. I forget actually might be in 3262 02:38:45,040 --> 02:38:45,720 the Reach. I forget. 3263 02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:48,880 I think it's in the Reach 'cause he's often seen as a Hightower 3264 02:38:48,880 --> 02:38:50,520 guard. Yeah, I think it's in the reach 3265 02:38:50,520 --> 02:38:52,240 because that's one of the children of Garth. 3266 02:38:52,640 --> 02:38:57,800 OK, yeah. So he's does stunts as well. 3267 02:38:58,440 --> 02:39:00,280 The children of Gareth could be anywhere. 3268 02:39:02,600 --> 02:39:06,880 So he he paid for drama school Eddie Ayer did by being a 3269 02:39:06,880 --> 02:39:09,480 performing jouster at Warwick Castle. 3270 02:39:09,800 --> 02:39:13,520 So like sort of like a being one of those dudes that jousted 3271 02:39:13,520 --> 02:39:16,200 medieval times or whatever. You know, it's a real jousting. 3272 02:39:16,200 --> 02:39:18,480 Like it's actually, you got to be in shape and be able to carry 3273 02:39:18,480 --> 02:39:21,240 a Lance and it's you can get slammed to the ground pretty 3274 02:39:21,240 --> 02:39:24,600 hard there. And not only did it pay for his 3275 02:39:24,600 --> 02:39:28,040 acting school, but it became relevant to his performing 3276 02:39:28,040 --> 02:39:29,960 experience here. As you can see, he's a guard and 3277 02:39:29,960 --> 02:39:32,400 wearing armor and riding horses and stuff, being a Kingsguard 3278 02:39:32,400 --> 02:39:33,600 and all sorts of things. So that's cool. 3279 02:39:33,960 --> 02:39:37,120 Good for him. Eddie Eyre, good chance he pops 3280 02:39:37,120 --> 02:39:40,360 up in. He's one of the few candidates 3281 02:39:40,360 --> 02:39:41,560 to be in a third Game of Thrones show. 3282 02:39:41,560 --> 02:39:43,360 He could easily appear in Night of the Seven Kingdoms. 3283 02:39:43,360 --> 02:39:46,120 I wouldn't be surprised. In fact, he could be one of the 3284 02:39:46,120 --> 02:39:48,920 random jousters. Like it's, it's played by an 3285 02:39:48,920 --> 02:39:51,320 actor, but in the moment of jousting, it's Eddie Eyre. 3286 02:39:51,480 --> 02:39:53,080 I'm going to go ahead and call that now. 3287 02:39:53,080 --> 02:39:56,480 Eddie Eyre will be in episode one or episode 2 of Night of the 3288 02:39:56,480 --> 02:40:00,920 Seven Kingdoms. Lady Sophia Valarian says said 3289 02:40:00,920 --> 02:40:03,160 the Super chat says I'm a new follower and I've thoroughly 3290 02:40:03,160 --> 02:40:05,320 enjoyed the history of Westeros. Well, thank you Sophia. 3291 02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:08,120 We will. So nice to hear from a Valarian 3292 02:40:08,120 --> 02:40:13,920 that's extra meaningful. Yes, we will keep you company in 3293 02:40:13,920 --> 02:40:16,560 the offseason as well while you're sailing about the Seven 3294 02:40:16,560 --> 02:40:21,200 Kingdoms in your Valarian fleet or if you're managing the 3295 02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:23,480 blockade. A lot of hours to pass, a lot of 3296 02:40:23,480 --> 02:40:26,000 time to listen to podcasts, so I can feel for you there. 3297 02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:28,560 We'll keep them coming. Like I said, our back catalog is 3298 02:40:28,680 --> 02:40:31,240 is large. We've been doing this since 2012 3299 02:40:31,560 --> 02:40:35,600 and it keeps growing because we make episodes almost every week 3300 02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:39,000 and that will continue. Like I said, next week we're 3301 02:40:39,000 --> 02:40:41,960 doing a book to show episode. You'll like I said as well, I'll 3302 02:40:41,960 --> 02:40:45,560 be a little more critical about some things, but also that won't 3303 02:40:45,560 --> 02:40:47,600 be that's not the purpose of that episode. 3304 02:40:47,600 --> 02:40:50,960 It's not just to hammer the show for its adaptational decisions, 3305 02:40:50,960 --> 02:40:53,440 but there will be a few of those in there cuz we don't agree with 3306 02:40:53,440 --> 02:40:56,560 everything, but, you know, we'll be fair about it. 3307 02:40:57,680 --> 02:40:59,760 Yeah. So thank you all again for 3308 02:41:00,080 --> 02:41:01,640 participating in our show coverage. 3309 02:41:01,640 --> 02:41:04,040 And we hope you join us in our offseason coverage, which will 3310 02:41:04,040 --> 02:41:06,400 be mostly book focused, but we'll have show stuff here and 3311 02:41:06,400 --> 02:41:07,960 there. For one thing, we'll be talking 3312 02:41:07,960 --> 02:41:11,040 about what's to come. And we're not that far out from 3313 02:41:11,040 --> 02:41:13,360 another show season. Not House of the Dragon, that 3314 02:41:13,360 --> 02:41:16,480 will be a while, but Night of the Seven Kingdoms, quite 3315 02:41:16,480 --> 02:41:19,680 possibly less than a year away. And if it's a more than a year 3316 02:41:19,680 --> 02:41:22,240 away, well, it's not going to be much more than a year away, but 3317 02:41:22,240 --> 02:41:24,640 I would guess it's around a year away. 3318 02:41:25,000 --> 02:41:26,560 So that's pretty cool. That's something to be excited 3319 02:41:26,560 --> 02:41:28,200 for. Puts us in a position to have a 3320 02:41:28,200 --> 02:41:31,200 show at least every year, if not a little more often than that 3321 02:41:31,440 --> 02:41:34,120 going forward. So that's exciting. 3322 02:41:34,120 --> 02:41:36,360 Good for us all here in the fandom. 3323 02:41:36,600 --> 02:41:39,320 Yay, yay, yay. Three cheers for us. 3324 02:41:40,960 --> 02:41:45,320 Thanks to Ashea and Sean for being so great and having such 3325 02:41:45,320 --> 02:41:49,200 excellent takes and helping to make our show so wonderful. 3326 02:41:49,680 --> 02:41:53,800 We are grateful for you all and I am grateful for you all as 3327 02:41:53,800 --> 02:41:56,360 well for you all meeting the audience and you all meeting 3328 02:41:56,360 --> 02:41:59,120 Ashea and Sean. Don't forget to check out Magic 3329 02:41:59,120 --> 02:42:00,960 Mind. The link is in the description. 3330 02:42:01,480 --> 02:42:05,680 Thanks to our other regular contributors like Nina and you 3331 02:42:05,680 --> 02:42:08,480 all with your with your questions and comments. 3332 02:42:09,160 --> 02:42:12,560 Shout out to our Facebook group, our Discord group, those of you 3333 02:42:12,560 --> 02:42:17,160 who hang out with us on Patreon or on X or wherever else we 3334 02:42:17,160 --> 02:42:19,960 happen to appear. We are mostly all over social 3335 02:42:19,960 --> 02:42:23,040 media. Thanks to Joey, Jesse and Bran 3336 02:42:23,040 --> 02:42:27,240 for the music in our show. Joey and Jesse made the original 3337 02:42:27,240 --> 02:42:29,840 version, Joey Townsend wrote the original version, Jesse wrote a 3338 02:42:30,240 --> 02:42:33,280 very fun Blues version of it, and Bran made all set of new 3339 02:42:33,280 --> 02:42:36,120 music for House of the Dragon intro that we love so much. 3340 02:42:36,640 --> 02:42:39,600 And thanks to Bran as well for the video portion of that intro, 3341 02:42:39,600 --> 02:42:41,920 which he also did. And thanks to Michael Klarfeld 3342 02:42:41,920 --> 02:42:44,760 for our original intro and for the maps you see behind me. 3343 02:42:46,240 --> 02:42:50,360 You all know what to do. Until next time and always, 3344 02:42:50,880 --> 02:42:54,400 Valar reread us and Valar rewatch us.