Hello, my fellow West dorian's, Welcome Back, its Sunday blood
magic Sunday in this episode, we will look at all the examples of
blood magic and those who use it, what types of spells and
effects. It has both in general, and on
the story will talk about its Origins.
The societies and cities known for it famous examples.
From history, Legends and lore that sort of thing.
Feel Free as well to give us your favorite examples because
it's not always easy to tell. What counts is blood-magic and
what doesn't, that's something we'll be discussing as well.
There will be a little bit of House of the Dragon info mixed
in here, when I wrote this, I said a few bits, but as it turns
out, there's really just one and it came straight from George
through Ryan condal. So that's cool.
Game of Thrones, on the other hand, it cut out a lot of what
we call. Blood medical really just magic
in general and when its own way, and if Spots.
And sometimes it's stuck to the book.
So there's not a lot to add there.
So we, there's no discussion from the first TV show in this
one as well. We shall include a few examples
of blood magic. We might expect to see down the
road or people who we might expect to use it if even if we
don't know what precisely they're going to do, magic is
fun in part because it's used sparingly in this world.
And as with most things it has George's care and Brilliance
behind it. Plus the influence of the genre.
In this case we're dealing with One of, if not the most evil
forms of magic, it certainly feels that way.
Generally throughout the story, characters, react to it with
revulsion and extreme prejudice from a variety of different
cultures. This isn't just westerosi the
react this way and in their world, it is and just
Superstition. It's as real as it gets and
there's quite a lot of it out there for us to discuss indeed.
You might be surprised at what we consider blood magic, what we
don't that'll lead us to talk about sacrifice a lot.
Most of the cases were blood. And/or death are involved, The
sorceries, those who cast them and why the price they paid or
the price that someone else paid phrases of note.
Like there is power in King's blood and only death May pay for
life all that and more on this episode of history, of Westeros
podcast. How's it going?
Shawn? Welcome.
What you got? You got a little?
Yeah, I hope you have a red drink for us today.
That would be appropriate. I do indeed, this is pretty
blood-red looking. I think I would matches my
shirt, the rainbow Naked, drink mixed with watermelon Mountain
Dew and a bang. But I forgot what flavor might
have been peach mango but the bangs are clear.
Anyway, the blood-red is coming from the rainbow naked dream.
Heck yeah. So we end up blood and the
blood. Yes, Shawn, but actual bucket
Dimension. Yeah, you always put blood in
there. It's easy to forget it's Sunday.
Blood magic Sunday for us this Sunday blood magic Sunday for
YouTube. I hope so.
Shout out to our good friend
Nina, her blog is good, Queen a lead on tumblr.com, there's one
L in a lie and latest blog post on her site.
Is a question about Isabella of France and parallels with her
and Alyssa Volare. A list of Lauren super
interesting character. You're going to want to find out
where some of this inspiration came from because Nina agrees
that there is some part inspiration there, at least
part, maybe even more than that. Get out good clean LED
tumblr.com this episode was voted on by patrons.
Will tell you what's coming next.
The end of the episode. Did you know that Martin's world
is so robust that covering the one topic often teased has
several others. This one in particular, so many
other episodes, the end I'm going to read y'all like 10 or
12 episodes that we pop up here because well blood magic pops up
in a lot of places. So it's a very big list.
Just look at this time also at the end of the episode there's a
trivia question. Well an answer the question is
here at the beginning and it is Melisandre Solis Daenerys and
mirri. Maz duur all say the phrase only
deaf May or can or could pay for life at some point who is the
only male to use that phrase in the series?
Only one answer at the end, you said in the intro that we might
surprise you on what I think it is or isn't play Magic.
We might not be on the same page, okay, is everybody your
rights and debatable point? I think we'll talk about that.
Some there's no ultimate Authority on this.
So it's all just our own personal opinion, none of us are
actual blood magic practitioners.
So we are not experts giving advice you that you know, of
that, you know, I wouldn't let you know.
I find interesting line prepping for this.
I use the search of iron Feist any results.
So anyway, I got no results. I think there were some results
where, like the word wood and Magic were using the same three
paragraphs fan, but I also realize in some of those
results. Wait, what?
Magic is like one word George uses it?
A one word? Yeah, that's really.
It's okay. Even still there are pretty
limited results of blood magic. Coming up together and sometimes
if you blood Mage is one word and the word Magi.
Got used a lot for marrying, my store, a lot of the results came
from that segment with Danny. Her Danny remembering back to
that. Jess and major.
I comes up a few times too but it's still pretty limited for
how much we have to talk and think about this.
That's not specifically reference very often but almost
every time it is it's like Pandora's box of thought about
absolutely. It's a hits hard when it pops up
at all and you're right that it isn't mentioned straight out.
Out which doesn't mean the president isn't there?
Because it isn't always called blood magic isn't always someone
standing there, narrating going bats, blood magic, you know,
rarely is learned blood maggots in my youth and now I'm going to
execute it right way to specific manner under the power of this
God, and these materials. Like, no, it's all just, like,
big references that we have to kind of, like, imagine up for
construe from, you know, which is part of why we don't always
know what is and what isn't, what counts?
What doesn't count? But that's part of the fun.
So you let's get a start. Your quote from qyburn and
Cersei blood magic is the darkest kind of sorcery.
Some say it is the most powerful as well.
Cersei did not want to hear that.
This Mage, I made certain prophecies, I laughed at them at
first but she foretold the death of one of my best mates at the
time. She made the prophecy, the girl
was one and ten healthy is a little hoarse and safe within
the rock yet. She soon fell down a well.
And drown fell melara had begged her never to speak of the
things. They heard that night in the
Mesa is tent. If we never talked about it will
soon forget and then it will be just a bad dream.
We had malaria had said, bad dreams, never come true.
The both of them had been so young that almost sounded wise.
Damn Cersei fell down the. Well, yeah, okay.
That's what happened. But really it, but still Get the
point here. This is even Cersei is chilled
by this, and qyburn is, you know, he knows some things about
magic. This of course, is Maggy the
Frog. They're talking about and the
prophecy coming. True of for friend being killed
and then more prophecy is coming, true about how many
children Robert would have and how many children she would have
and all these other things. So magic tends to function
function in quotes by drawing on a source.
That's usually how its expressed in a variety.
These of fantasy worlds. George's world seems to be
similar in that regard. Even if it's a little less
distinct or a lot less distinct. Maybe it's usually a natural
element like Earth, Wind Fire and do you remember.
It works in any month not just September though, it does appear
to be seasonal or at least some Magics to.
I wasn't just randomly making that joke, it does appear to be
seasonal, right leg magic seems to ebb and flow in its power and
in certain places around the world Elemental Magics may be
more dependent on weather and climate.
Lime it then say something like blood magic, which maybe just
depends on the blood of the person Which is less
temperamental. I suppose.
Simply put blood magic is Magic that uses blood as a source if
that quote from qyburn and Cersei is truthful.
Then blood is perhaps the most powerful of all the sources more
powerful than Earth than Wind and Fire and all that.
And qyburn is more of an authority than most you get
magical street cred, when you successfully pull off, He's he's
so I'd think he knows more than most people.
Still necromancy is not blood magic and what magic is not
glamour's glamour's is not skin. Changing skin.
Changing is not prophecy. There's lots of different types
of magic being knowledgeable in one.
Doesn't mean you know the other. It's like that old Mitch Hedberg
joke. Oh, you're a chef.
Can you farm like? No, you know, I guess they're
both food related but they're entirely different skills of the
Magics. We see which are and are not
blood magic. Yeah.
Like we Somewhat up to the individual, sometimes it's
pretty clear but times it's not. So we'll try to get some
understanding and maybe learn a few spells of our own do.
Try this at home? Yes, please do.
I want to point out. There's also, some crossover,
not just between different types of magic, but between magic and
science. What some of what car Burns
doing? Might be magical, but some of it
might just be scientific. You might just understand some
elements of biology Gregor wasn't totally dead.
His heart was still beating Maybe.
Brain-dead, but maybe he's got something to work with
scientifically. But also, if you throw in some
magic, yeah, the heart of science is reproducing
repeatable results, right? And if you can produce
repeatable results with magic, then you can categorize it
scientifically. Even if you can't, categorize
like every part of it, I mean, which is true for reality.
We can't categorize everything that exists.
Some magic has to be involved. If you want to call it blood
magic, that should be obvious on some levels for example, simply
sacrificing someone while cutting their throat.
You know, that's not necessarily blood magic.
Unless it produces some magical effect then you could arguably
say that. Well, that's that's what magic
It produced, an effect. I also do think I'm not 100% in
this, but I think that blood magic doesn't necessarily have
to be actual blood. I think blood could mean life
and it's burning someone at the stake.
At least potentially is blood-magic.
It's at least in the same room. I think it's a debatable point.
I'm not sure about this but I think it's a reasonable point
to. I think that's a that's the D
perfect. Example, actually showing I
think is burning someone to stake.
Is whether that counts is blood-magic whether that like,
if Melisandre does that to Shireen later is that blood
magic or is that fire magic? Or is it both?
It's a little bit of semantics. It's not super important to
figure that out but it is fun to discuss and maybe gets closer to
the answer. So fun to discuss.
So girls being, yes, so fun the best freely.
We love our. That's what Sundays are for ya.
One example, I think we have here.
That is seems pretty likely to not be blood magic.
Expressed as if it is the ghiscari and their gladiatorial
games here is hizdahr zo, loraq actually do.
This is Danny repeating hizdahr, zo loraq, the fighting pits have
been a part of marine since the city was founded.
The combats are profoundly religious in nature.
A blood sacrifice to the gods of geese.
The mortal art of yeast is Not Mere Butchery, but a display of
Courage, skill and strength, most pleasing to your Gods,
right? And his dark.
Course, being the funny guy that has he's like oh you've quite
convinced me. She's just like I've heard your
argument so many times. I could say it myself.
And then there it is. I do see how it could be blood
Magic, by the way, say it's something.
It could evolve, let's say that you knew on some scientific
level, some magical level, maybe it's just a customer, there's no
magic to it all. But for whatever reason, they
know where they believe that, if they kill someone, maybe on some
certain date, or sun ground that the crops The next year up.
Well might as well make a contest out of right, like might
as well sell tickets. It still could be blood magic,
even though it has become a game where to the average person,
they think it's a gladiatori fighter, or show courage, but
the people who originated it or behind the organization, they
might understand it. We need this Blood to be
spilled. Yeah.
Right. Like if there are God's sitting
up there and they are pleased, how would we know you know if
they are Angry, he knows I mean I think his DARS just saying
stuff but I can't be 100% sure. You know, maybe the gods of
guess really are there and maybe they really do care about what's
the gladiatorial games also, even if his are doesn't believe
it and he's just being manipulative.
What matters is if his people. Yeah.
I just people do, it was him to do seem to believe that's true.
That's very good point. What's real and what people
believe are important dichotomies, especially with,
with magic and Superstition? Especially when magic is real.
Whether or not Examples cited are examples of magic.
Some of them are. So whether or not this
gladiatorial games is a example of blood magic.
It is a good example showing. Some of it is probably not blood
magic and a form of sacrifice. That's probably not blood.
Magic, it sets the example. Anyway, human bodies are fragile
enough that blood just gets spilled.
When things are happening, we get scraped, if I'm cut.
Do I not bleed? Yes.
That doesn't make it blood magic.
It isn't like vase dothe. Rack where If a Blog can be
spilled and if it is then boom, that's blood magic.
But speaking of the Dothraki and based oath rack Laz, you said,
Sean, a lot of our best examples come in book one with Danny and
Mary Mass door. That's when you actually hear
the phrase, blood magic, uttered a few times and there's, it's
almost as straightforward as we ever get.
So, here we go. Quote, right before she hatches,
dragon eggs from the pyre by itself.
The blood is nothing. You do not have the words to
make a spell nor the wisdom. Find them.
Do you think blood magic is a game for children?
Well, Danny played the game in one, she's arguably a child in
that moment. But Mary died, thinking it
wouldn't work, which is pretty ironic.
She turned out to be quite mistaken.
Mary pointed out Danny, didn't know anything about blood magic,
but while Mary herself as a practitioner, as we said she's
probably no expert. There's such a wide open topic
of magic, where there's the Shirley things that have not
been discovered or discovered by very few.
She wouldn't know it all. All.
But this was really a miracle according to George anyway.
So spell probably isn't the right word, which is also why I
marry Maz duur. Couldn't have seen it coming.
And why Danny was compelled to do.
It was partly because of dream. She was having and other things
that are almost, certainly not blood magic, but probably magic.
It could be a miracle and be blood magic.
Yeah, that's it. For example, let's say that
every morning, the blood Mage Cuts their daughters finger and
drips blood on corn. And the next day, the corn is
gold. So let's say that's blood magic
but say, one day you do the same thing and the next day you're a
whole crop is gold. Instead of just the corn on the
table like well that was what magic but also a miracle.
The blood magic user doesn't work like that.
You got a miraculous result this one time.
Yeah. And if you did you would like
try to maybe do that again. Like oh that we Bruce Lee we
cute? Yeah.
That's right. Okay.
Why did not Sai exactly? Did you do?
Yeah. Exactly.
That's document this process. Did you have?
The camera running when you did that.
Also, to be fair, though, Mary master was trying to save her
own life, so she may have been willing to say, whatever just to
do anything to get unstrapped from that pyre, is she could
clearly see what was about to happen.
Also, she seemed to think it was blood magic.
She didn't your row. There are being burned.
But damn may be bloated. Also been drawn.
Maybe she doesn't know or distinguish.
Yeah, you told her you told me only death can pay for life.
She's like you can't just throw the stuff in a pot and Stir It
Up and expected to work. Like what are you doing?
Well, it, but it did works. Yeah, Nana says, for what, it's
worth, Mary might not have been wrong for what she thought
Daenerys was doing. If she believed Danny was trying
to resurrect Drogo because Mary didn't know what this pyre and
all that. What she was actually trying to
accomplish there and she didn't ask she's doing so sure.
Danny knew either. No, she did.
She probably didn't exactly know.
You're, right. She was having the dreams and
right in between losing her, child and hatching, the pyre.
She had those fever dreams and before that she was having
dreams that were less intense, but building up to this.
So, yeah, there's all sorts of stuff going on, lots of
additional context to this moment.
Maybe that's the key to hashing. Dragon eggs, you can't realize
you're doing it. You can't have that intention,
but Danny was trying to hide. But again, he probably was
trying to hatch dragons even if she wasn't fully conscious of
it, but Mary didn't know that I'd which is an important
distinction. Nina continues.
This was a spell. No one could know the words to
probably if there are any words to it in the first place and
because the last dragons died, almost two centuries.
Fire & Dragons, probably didn't need rituals to hatch before.
That isn't, I mean, not the ones during like the dance.
Not during the house of the Dragon era.
We never is no hint of anything like that.
Dragons, just hatched like animals do like eggs hatch
occasionally, they don't because there's something wrong but
that's how regular eggs. Work and Miriam as Dewar was
called blood Mage and Meiji Magi Maggie especially when casting
the spell for Drogo. Go, which involved the sacrifice
of his favorite horse. She was cursed for her having
the aspect of a spellcaster before that though the blood
Riders other distract, you were just like shunning her like no,
don't let her do anything. They had a very predisposed
against anything, she might do. And that was just for offering
to heal him, right? But when it was too late to go,
farther Danny turned to the Forbidden quote, there is a
price God's wife, warned her, you'll have gold, Horses,
whatever. You like not a matter of gold
and horses. This is blood-magic lady, only
death can pay for Life, hmm. Yes, interesting, too, is it
kind of peculiar that this humble peaceful woman that lived
in like obscurity and simplicity learn blood magic in the first
place. Like, yeah, she went to a shy
and you can see that some of the things she learned make sense.
Like she learned all these birthing spells and fertility
spells for crops, but blood magic and that's kind of We
talked about Sean like yeah that's maybe it's one of those
things that's sounds evil often used for things that were
revolted by the process. Is it doesn't make it look any
better. But if you're only using it for
like growing crops for helping people deliver children healthy
than that's fine, that's good. But maybe she wasn't using blood
magic for that. Maybe she was using other
spells, but also she knew blood measure.
I've been, why wouldn't she have learned it in the first place?
Like it doesn't. Yeah.
I don't know, it's not something you just like pick up at the
corner like oh, I accidentally picked up.
I picked up a little Blood Moons.
Like you live in Thailand for a while, you may pick up some
ties, you might learn the language a little.
I don't know if you just pick up blood Magic by being around,
being around blood, Mages I can paint on what?
Courtney a hangout on. Yeah, exactly.
That's peculiar to me. Need a rights for what?
It's worth. We pretty much know nothing with
the lazzarini culture. Other than that, they get called
peaceful a lot. So what they do with blood magic
might be, well, they're peaceful culture, maybe they have Found.
Peaceful uses for it. You know, if you're just
sacrificing an animal and it really works and grows a lot of
crops, that might be a little gross.
But like what who are we to look down on that?
I mean, we meet, well, you don't Shawn but most of us do a lot of
you all listening. Don't, but similar thing, you
know, what's the difference, all they said some words and the
blood fell into the Earth. That's so much worse than a
slaughterhouse. No actually, it's probably
slaughterhouse is probably worse, actually, so anyway,
let's yeah. So consider the burning of Mary
Master herself. as part of the hatching of the eggs, This is
where you talk about Sean is this is that blood magic is
that, I mean it's a miracle so it's a whole nother thing thrown
in here that just it's hard to categorize a miracle while.
Also trying to figure out what sort type of magic it is.
It could be a mix. Also, you know, that converter,
clutter things, if you will, I think about this constantly
throughout this thread. To me there is a supernatural
power. And a lot of times, for example,
like Andy Andy, we're in a lot of fantasy worlds.
There's magic if you will, but this also like the power of the
Gods, like there's many different types of mystical
Powers which a lot of times get broken down into magic Elemental
type stuff in a mystical Supernatural type stuff, you
know. But they're that doesn't mean
they can't be crossed. Voiceover the gorgeous.
Martin's World works that way, but I, in my mind, I still feel
like there's different ways to tap into these Supernatural
Powers. Yeah, and one way is Green
Scene. One way is blood-magic one way
is priest of real or, but a pre-civil or my.
Also, tap into blood match, certain someone, you know.
So I totally agree. And I think in Melisandre and
and what we know about valyria, it seems to be explicitly.
True what you're saying? It's not, I think it's beyond
Theory at this point, like they say all blur and sorceries
rooted in Blood and Fire. Melisandre doing things.
That clearly other Red Priest can't do or pretty.
Clearly are the Red Priest can do but they all have other like
fire magic. That they seem to all have in
common, so yeah, I totally agree.
It's like you can cross the streams like Ghostbusters
reference there. And a lot of times, there's this
idea of like, which religion is real or who the one true God is.
Even if there is only one that's real or one, true God, which I
suspect in the first place? It still doesn't mean there
can't be different beliefs or factions that tap into.
To the magic differently, right? Have different rituals or
understand. He's behind it for that one.
God is the real true God? But some other, God could still
truly exist and have power. And if you know they're not,
they don't have to be mutually exclusive.
And maybe if you are more honorable, to one guide, you'll
get printed more powerful. Yeah.
Maybe Melisandre gets more from real or because she's more
devout, but it still doesn't mean she can't also get
something from Shadow binding or whatever.
Absolutely, totally agree. Yeah, well said on top of all
that, there's also Chance and coincidence.
Yeah, one might be, might just happen or be misunderstood or be
manipulated, like Melisandre. It's not a stretch of a guest
that draw for he's gonna die, right?
Wreck her predicting. Joffrey's, death is not that,
you know, like she could just get lucky on that, he's predict
a bunch of stuff that's probably going to happen.
Anyway. And then, once that happens, you
claim you for the class right fortune-teller trick.
Yeah, yeah that's a good we know Melisandre, has that type of
thing. Other people might also whether
they even realize it or not, they might.
Just be you have a passionate feeling that they call a
prediction but it's really because their subconscious
understands it is true. Yeah, we're likely or whatever.
Yeah, and to make matters more complicated Melisandre says,
there's power in King's, blood will discuss that more in detail
later in the episode. But just to introduce that
concept and say, well she implying or saying the different
types of blood produced different magical results like
well you need Kings blood for this one.
But for that spell, you need the blood of a cobbler, you know?
Or Man or something. I don't know.
Or a child or a virgin. Yeah, there's like we've all
heard the stories like already. There's an assumption right?
That human blood is going to be more powerful than goats blood.
Yeah. Whatever.
Absolutely Tango Tango. Yeah.
So, what else should try this? Yeah.
A normal human more powerful than the king of all goes to
make an even more complicated here.
Thanks. So we have examples from the
distant past. Past when sacrifices involved,
where we just don't know. Whether there was a magical
result, right? Like, there's all these stories
of hundreds of captives were sacrificed like, well, the me
there was magic as a result of that.
We don't know, like how would the Citadel know thousand years
later. They may have said magical
things happen, but the Citadel may not believe it, they just
write it down as they. Well, that's what they said
happened. I don't know.
I'm not here to challenge it, but so that's kind of our
groundwork for this in World explanation.
It's all, it's a partial anyway, and the readers World building
perspective is It works. It serves as both of those but
on a story level for the again World characters and how they
view it and for how it serves. The story blood magic is a form
of power in a story that has a lot to do with power themes of
control on both the Grand and personal scale are abundant.
It certainly comes up a lot in Valerie, Reedus as a theme, we
discussed that. I feel like one out of every
three or four episodes, it comes up in detail and in passing the
rest of the time, you're not. An unlikely to have encountered
discussions on Power and Game of Thrones A Song of Ice and Fire.
Well, before you ever found us not to mention, you may have
just noticed that on your own and thought about it quite a
bit. It has so many consequences,
human consequences. And I don't just mean the
sacrificial victims, though. Shout out to them, too.
I mean, that blood magic is known and shown throughout the
story to have side effects on the user.
If not those around them, this is true for real power to and a
fictional world. Or the real one, the pursuit of
power can come at the cost of more fulfilling, Pursuits of
family of health, and happiness is often phrased as you sold
your soul for power blood. Magic, is that sort of more
literal, he's expressed but it's a very similar concept.
It's this the same. It's the bad version in a
fantasy world. Those who achieve their power
Centric goals. Are often unsatisfied, alienated
distracted by the need to maintain what they have, which
often leads to a Nude pursuit of power.
IE, the cycle begins Anew begins again blood magic serves as a
great metaphor for all this, a dark great metaphor for all
this. It's more straightforward and
brutal version of it. Where people and the occasional
animal are sacrificed instead of things, like trust, kindness,
empathy joy, peace of mind, everything else you lose on the
cyclical road to power, I decided like that speech from
and or didn't I whether it's your Humanity.
He or literal humans being sacrificed the costs are
revolting to us. We know it's wrong to do it yet.
The payoffs are huge in terms of defying the possible, not in
terms of things like wealth, or power, regular power, although
those two may be, but in terms of just doing things that
shouldn't be possible, defying reality, that's what makes it.
So that's that's the big payoff with magic and in blood magic,
in particular. Yeah, I was gonna say blood
magic in particular because I think that in general magic
should, like, for a good ride. You for good fantasy writing or
whatever magic need to cost ya. If everyone could just do it
willy-nilly it's not special. And they're also start to be
like implications on how the world would work, they are hard
to be realistic about, right? But when it requires a cost, it
makes it more difficult to do more risky to do and to get a
greater effect, it requires a greater cost like when that
that's to me like the cross over to blood magic.
It's one thing if for magic you need to like Wait for the third
full moon of the Year and have some Sagebrush or whatever.
Yeah, but is that thing to have like kill your son or yeah, like
those are much different. I was sad, you familiar at all,
Sean with Brandon Sanderson, three laws of magic.
No, I know that Brandon Sanderson and I know the magic
is part of his world where I would like to know.
His really interesting is the second law is what is directly
related to what you're saying. The second law is limitations
greater. Powers just a simple equation.
Just limitations greater than the powers themselves, but the
first law and authors ability to solve conflict with magic is
directly proportional to how well, the reader understands
said magic. Oh, that's and so, he's like
metal rules for writing. Not so much my kids.
Okay. Yes, the third law is and it's
just three simple laws with the third.
One is expand what you already have.
Before you add something new. Hmm.
Yeah, it's just a little bit of Thing, but the I might have my
point was the second law is I think maybe the one that George
leans on the most. The limitations being a point of
conflict because I think he surely has added he has added
more new things and not expand in what he already has.
I don't know. The third law also is ironic
that Brandon Sanderson performed blood magic to learn.
Those three rules to be From Another Dimension to give him
that. Forbidden Knowledge.
So it's also adjust the level of defiance of reality that I think
matters. It's one thing to just conjure,
a miniature burst of flame for nothing.
That would be magic. If it came from nowhere without
spark or anything compare that to like seeing the future, both
are impossible, but one is, I do.
It just seems more impossible. You know, are just yeah, a lot
more powerful either way. So both are impossible but one
just seems A lot more useful and Grand.
And so when one there's starting a fire in her hand out of
nothing, it seems like there's a way to reproduce that even if
it's not magic I could have some like chemical that reacts
shrimp. Yeah.
Like shit. Yeah, I can cut but there's not
like a trick. There's not some way to
alternatively, predict a future in his chemical or you can use
magic. You can do it with this weather
is not some way to predict the future, other than that.
Yeah, it's just My three simple Jack's to predict the yeah, I'm
actually yeah actually. Right.
Because I when I think about something like as a lot of
Science Fiction and all that where it extrapolates, the
natural step of being able to predict the future using
science. And so yeah.
They're actually, there definitely are, like a Sci-Fi
world where even if there are like, theoretical ways to go
about that, they're still hard to comprehend.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Just like blows your mind as to what's possible.
It's a great way to phrase it, Sean.
So another way to think about this.
Stu literally speaking for comparing political power to
blood, but to magical power. Blood magic is impossible.
While political power is not, but in the real world in terms
of achievability than that, any functional difference for you or
me or most of us, I'm not going to be wielding any great sort of
political power at any point in my life or any sort of blood me,
they're both completely out of tude.
Yeah, not with that attitude. You're right.
I've given up already. I still think I could be a great
source. Some political power don't count
me out and that's part of why it works.
So well, in story format with my blood because casting spells is
unbelievable to me, but so is sitting the throne and ruling an
entire land and controlling the entire economy and whether they
go to war and all the just and everything, like that's also
just pretty unbelievable to me. So it fits really well in a
story with grand elements like that even ones that are
technically possible. People in the real world.
And I again, I'm talking about a real throne, not the iron
throne, but throw that in there and gets all the cooler and
Grandeur. Again, I use the word Grand a
lot today, but it works G. Yes, it's a grand topic.
We're dealing with Darkly Grand. And of course, those parallels
are not the whole story, let's do as we, so often do go back
quickly. We could do any back in time,
examples, from myth, and Legend, the story of his Aura, high and
Nissa Nissa as has been expressed many times.
On this show and elsewhere sounds a lot like blood magic
does it? You're gonna first.
It was just water. That wasn't blood magic trying
to stop the, you know, cool to sort off with water.
That's not blood magic, but then cooling it off in the Heart of a
Lion. It's getting pretty blood, magic
e and of course, you wonder how you made that leap?
Like water didn't work. Let's try My Heart of a Lion.
That's that's the natural next step in the progression.
Third step in the progression. Clearly is your lover.
You go from water to Lion to lover.
Everybody knows that's the 123 process for forging just
hallways. Skipped over hamster too.
Hard of a snake that doesn't seem to us.
They couldn't get the job done. Even though he can deconstructed
this story many times in many different ways as Laura.
Hi, we don't go too far with that as our high.
Even if it was an evil deed as or a high wasn't an evil person,
I don't think I think as or higher was it wasn't doing this
for malice or personal gain. They were doing it to save the
world they just did it wrong. Or maybe they didn't do it
wrong. I don't know.
It just it seems wrong to us. Nina says the story of his Aura.
High raises the fundamental question with any sacrificial
Magic, including blood magic when if ever is it okay to
sacrifice? Another person.
For the sake of specific magical ends, if Davos may be the
closest thing, the books have to have moral Center is horrified
and disgusted by the story of his Aura, High sacrifice of his
wife. It suggests to me, the author
disagrees with the morality of his oratory as well.
Like George is kind of telegraphing that, yes, he
doesn't agree with this. The goodness of this either.
It's not. Okay to sacrifice someone else.
Even to save the world is, perhaps the message that he's
putting forth here or at least he recognizes, it's a conundrum.
Yes, right. Yes, because a lot of times even
like the most quote-unquote, noble, or good characters,
they're still flawed, there may be still making a mistake that
people might suffer from in their attempts to be good.
That's something that George does, right?
And I've death round this before.
When we talked about, the idea of this world is just different
and armor. Morality not might not apply if
you really could sacrifice someone to cure cancer or
whatever, you know, but I thought of this is another way
to express it. Let's say that if someone could
kill an innocent person and it would save cancer a cancer.
No, no, we're trying to get rid of it.
Let's say that. That is wrong or bad, but
someone feels like it's worth it, even though it's wrong or
bad. Then I think that person if I
think it's worth killing, this innocent person to save
everyone. Well, I should also think it's
worth sacrificing myself. Yeah, they've ever.
Yes, exactly. So I should be willing to face
the death penalty. I kill this innocent person.
Everyone's cure to cancer, then I'm put to death for murder.
That's Yeah, what happened? Yeah, right.
Yeah, I think I mean the person who was killed on willingly for
saved to cure cancer might not be the most happy person there
but maybe that person was also a willing participant in the
activity and said yeah hey kill me to save ever you know, it's
called exactly that's why I'm saying that's the case but I you
know I do think there's an argument where yeah, even if
that person was unwilling to curing cancer.
Yeah. Part of the store to is how is
Freddie? There was like, well, damn.
And did this, maybe they will. Maybe she brought the idea to
him in the first place. You know, maybe she said, hey do
it on me. This will save the world, you
know, and he's like no I can't do that.
So yeah, it s still being evil deed but if she's just like
you're just as he just swung the sword, you know, like is that we
don't call the hangman a murderer when they're doing
Justice, right? And if not that this was
necessarily justice. But again it's a it adds another
angle to the conundrum aspect, to it all.
But we're also getting a little bit away from blood magic with
that. The Bloodstone Emperor.
We go to the great Empire of the Dawn stuff that's apparently
necromancy is what he was accused of and dark arts, which
could include blood magic. I would given the overlap and
difficulty of categorization, probably some blood magic going
on. But it's interesting to think
about that dead bodies. If they've been dead long enough
don't have blood in the middle, right?
Or is that? I don't know how that would be
classified scientifically. There be Trace.
When does it stop being below, like cold hands?
It's all congealed. Holden Frozen and yeah, I don't
know that. Maybe, maybe I'm speaking out of
turn with that. We gotta ask, we got to ask
throws into have a line for Barak versus lady stoneheart.
True, that's true. There's a Tales of Garth
greenhand demanding blood sacrifice.
It's another take on the old stories because there and this
gets into with the whole like crops and fertility versus
sacrifice and whether that's forms of blood magic because
that's all that is wrapped up in the legend of Guardians.
In the myth of Garth greenhand of everywhere.
He goes fertility. Happens is like well, is he how
exactly is it happening? Is it just he's walking around
and wherever he goes my like lower more like Garth red hand.
Now, it's actually grosser than that, it's Garth Brown.
And yes, think about what helps crop do.
So I'll talk about soil, get your head, your head out this
way. Connecting Garth greenhand with
Legends of the old gods which maybe there's a more of a
connection there than is generally expressed.
Yeah. Is it blood magic to offer
sacrifice to a weirwood? If the trees hunger for blood is
that just is that magic? Or is that just they're hungry?
That's a sustenance. This is our magical.
The trees are already magical is giving them food more magic or
that's just food magic when vampires eat.
That's exactly the question. I'm asking, is it blood magic
when vampires eat? I would say no.
That's just eating the magic came about in creating them in
the first place but not just it's not magic to sit down to
breakfast. Although breakfast can be pretty
darned. Magical but you maybe you could
argue. It's Magic to keep the undead
alive and way you do that is by feeding them blood interesting
environment. Yeah, and yeah.
And again you see why this is Tricky by the way.
So folks I didn't include it in the episode but there's like a
page and a half at the end of this episode document which is
about 18 pages long today. I think where I just tried to
write out all the forms of magic that exists in this world, of
really took me back to my Dungeons and Dragons days.
Yeah, we're just like everything is classified also.
It's Anderson with his magic systems as well as you include
the magic of reading of imagination.
No. But I should have greatest magic
of the mall. Big oversight on my part.
Yeah, there's some cool ones. Like, Shadow Magic is Umbra
Mansi. But George just thought Shadow
binding sounds cooler. Yeah, I think he's drunk.
He's right data. Mining does sound.
Yeah, but yeah, there's a lot of them, a lot of forms, like,
things that he mentions that never, we don't actually see
anywhere like arrow man. See, although, maybe when the
red Priest control, the wind for that.
Could be arrow, man. See it weather control?
Maybe that's what are romancey or, yeah.
All sorts of cool stuff like that.
So fun fun. There's more magic in Planet
toast than a lot of people credit.
There's just a lot of it just as an inclusion, the story.
I think bran could taste the blood in that Vision that he was
having and he was put there after drinking the weirwood
paste, which may have had blood in it, more on that later, but
he was already in the vision when he tasted.
The Bloods was the magic already in play and he's just, and
again, that's just tasting it. That doesn't necessarily imply
magic. Although, the magic might be why
he's tasting it. Or maybe it's just
psychosomatic. I'd probably not say might imply
that it is blood-magic. Yes, that's what I think.
Yeah. So I kind of lean towards.
No, I'm not being blood magic, but if jojen pays, if that
theory turns out true and that's jojen in there, then that's
pretty clearly a form of blood magic.
He drank that. And he started seeing the past,
like that's divination. Action.
Which is divination is just seeing things that you should be
able to see surge what Cersei expressed from Magic Maggie
frog, that was divination. She took a blood drop of blood
from her finger, told your future.
So this sounds similar drink jojen, see the past and drink,
you know, Maggie drinks your finger and sees the future.
It's yeah. Mmm, Nina does not believe in
jojen Pay. She thinks it's just meant to be
chilling and scary, but he's not literally eating his friend
there, which yeah, I mean, Boring Anita says, but still
that could come down to a philosophical Point me.
Semantics whether or not that's blood magic or not, if the trees
exist because of blood in the first place, it's the same thing
like chicken or the egg kind of question.
There's also these stories like of The Pact era that it requires
blood sacrifice to Open the Eyes of a Heart Tree or wear
anywhere. Wood.
That's got a face carved into it and has to have a sacrifice
accompanied with it. This is a vague Legend.
We don't know if it's true. We don't know if they just do
that, they're like, well, the eyes are going to open anyway,
but we also would like to kick it off with a sacrifice as well.
You know, the magic isn't actually happening, there is an
actually magical result, but they do blood sacrifice because
they do blood sacrifice. They've always done it and they
just keep doing it. It and that is a really
important distinction, whether it's just a sacrifice because
that's something they believe in or whether there's actually a
magical result from that sacrifice and the, where was
presented with a conundrum because we get into questions of
whether they're just eating whether there's actual magic
going on. Whether there would just be a
dormant tree without that blood, we don't know.
But definitely touches on the subject definitely includes
itself. Definitely might be more overlap
than we've got old greenseers dead and Living in those trees.
Maybe that wouldn't work without blood probably still would but
maybe the blood spilt hundreds of years ago and he's rituals is
still powering it to this day, right?
Lasted forever or so long that it feels like forever.
So maybe I mean magic has worn off like at some point the north
stop sacrificing bodies to the trees and at some point it seems
like magic and North was stronger than it is now Man,
what you get for? Not sacrificing any more.
Yeah, so let's go to valyria where it's a lot more explicit
and it's this guesswork as to whether they were using it.
In more about guesswork into what specific ways, they were
using. It Melisandre seems to reveal in
her chapter that certain places give off more magical energy
than others one would presume that applies to blood magic as
well. It seems like likely to apply to
all forms of magic but until we know otherwise That's How we'll
Conceived it fourteen Flames, probably a place like that
probably or maybe some areas around them.
Some volcanoes may have that inherently pyromancy and blood
magic combine. This is Marwan seems to confirm.
Now he flat out says all blurry and sorcery is rooted in Blood
and fire straight up, just utters that sentence.
All learn sorcery is rooted in blood or fire.
Similar to real orgasm in some cases, but there's more of the
Ombre man. See the Shadow Magic involved
with them. It's maybe more pyromancy and
Shadow Magic with a little bit of little bit of blood mixed in
here. And there, perhaps in has the
dragon viserys points out, the inaugural on, which is a
sorceress edifice, which was a blood magic headquarters of
sorts and had proximity to one of the Fourteen Flames whichever
of the Fourteen Flames, the capital was built around or
attached to Perhaps it's also gave them proximity to the
burrowing fireworms that maybe the genetic seed for Dragons or
half of the genetic component for dragons.
We also know as we've talked about in other places, they've
created new species. This seems to be very distinctly
form of blood magic, connecting DNA and tissue and things.
That shouldn't be possible. Again, that's the heart of magic
is making the impossible possible making a dragon to a
lion shouldn't be possible. Even with modern DNA techniques,
that kind of thing is not impossible but only on a very
small scale like on the cellular level very thing or not are not
attaching Liz. Heard Tales to Lions again yet
yet. Yeah.
That's where you lizard line from by the way.
And they supposedly made it humans to animals, such as like,
those aren't walking around to this day that we know of.
Hey like what what yes it's your clothes mind is just because you
haven't seen it. Let's recall this great quote
from our good friend, septon Barth and septum barthes dragons
worms and wyverns He speculated that the blood Mages have
buleria used wyvern stock to create dragons though.
The blood Mages were alleged to have experiments in mightily
with their unnatural Arts. This claim is considered
far-fetched by most, by most maesters.
Not just by most by most maesters an important
distinction there. We don't find it, far-fetched at
all. And I think most readers that
have looked into this. Don't find it far-fetched septon
bars record on such things as extremely good so it's another
reason to trust him over the maesters, he Study dragons way
more than the maesters have to in our interview with George
r.r. Martin, he suggested that
practitioners of blood magic were like the dragonlords in
that they used incest to keep certain traits active which
means they passed rates down to their Descendants, the same
Source or E could be at the root of both whatever sorcery allows
dragons to continue to bond with dragonlords and has they have a
predisposition towards bonding with them and etcetera?
That could be some ancient rituals ancient magic that
affected someone's DNA. And has been passed down to
their descendants ever since perhaps it needs renewal every
once in a while, or perhaps. It's just semi-permanent.
One example, is the Targaryen enhanced to disease, resistance,
quote, there was fire in the blood of the Dragon.
It was reasoned a purifying fire that burned out all such
plagues. This one even the maesters
attest to and of course we see in Daniel 2, says it as well.
I think it's a storm storage where she's not worried about
getting the bloody flux or the pale mayor.
Because of what she's been told about targaryens.
He is that she isn't particularly believe in
Targaryen disease resistance. It might be the case that
Valyrian descendants, like the targaryens have a higher
immunity than other people's in that universe.
But there's other targaryens. You have died from earner
ordinary diseases later on. So, maybe maybe either it was
just lots of health, their Royals.
And so they have great sanitation and other things that
maybe give them a better outcome.
But I don't know. I'm not sure I agree with you on
this one. I feel like there's Not evidence
to suggest there is some magic but she's right to cast some
doubt on it because it's certainly not a sure thing.
If you think of magic as wrapped up in DNA, like if you could
have magic passed on genetically it could still be like many
other genetic traits. Your hair color height or
something like that, where it's in your genes and you may have
it or maybe more likely to have it or may have more of it but
you don't always have a completely.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. If someone in your Your history
is someone in your genetic line had one here you might go two or
three generations of brunettes mating and still not having a
blond child. But then one time you do and
it's because that trait were just in there but recessive.
Yeah. So you could have something
because the valyrians, they're not all pure blood.
They have Bloodlines mixed with bratton's and dornish, and who
knows whatever all let the random mutation Beast.
Yeah, that too. Right?
So it could just be stronger and Danny and Lucky.
This is making this assumption even though it's not a given,
but other people other targaryens have fallen.
Like, Nina has said that, you know, it could be killed, could
be magical and their tendency, but they're so exceptions.
Yeah, I like that take. Yeah.
So it sounds like an ear. Sure thing at the ruler in
Freehold, not only promoted and encourage the use of blood
magic, but became very Advanced at it.
Like you don't have this. Of course, it's just how the
dragon, maybe George didn't see it this way, but you probably
dead because of how much coordination you had with Ryan
condal in those guys that they were up there at the top of
society. They weren't like a corner of
society doing their own thing. They were kind of shunned and
just left alone. Know, they were they'd Social
Hour. They had their elevated, right?
They were considered top citizens.
Apparently not as top as the dragonlords I suppose.
But there's some overlap there. They're probably dragonlords.
You use blood magic because we definitely have some of the
dragonlords using magic directly themselves.
It wasn't just a matter of like their underlings did all the
magic that some of them have the abilities themselves.
Maybe some of the maybe that's why the targaryens were near the
bottom. Is that some of the other
families A lot more going on in their bloodlines than just
Dragon bonding. They could also greater
proximity and aptitude for certain forms of magic like this
one particularly this one surveillance or reading and
future. Maybe not that one.
Since their targaryens, the only ones who got out of there on
time but still still, I your right to throw names out there
and some of those would probably stick if we knew better, the
Valyrian steel. Perfect example.
Lots of evidence that sacrifice is involved in It directly
sacrificing people to create whatever effect enables the
steel to function the way it does to be so light to bees,
keep its Edge, so well to cut. So well to have fire in it.
Do whatever, magical properties, Valyrian steel has, might be as
a result of this. Blood Magic Ritual, that is
attached to these murders and there is likely a very dark
concept here. Very troubling, is that?
Yeah, the valyrians had kind of unlimited numbers of animal and
human subjects to force these It's on which is part of why
they got so good at it. They could just do whatever they
wanted and eventually it have reproducible results.
Horriffic, reproducible results on animal and human subjects
that which they could then build on and learn even more and go
even farther. It's a good thing this country
exploded and and it's probably why the exploded State this
country found itself in is still magically toxic things like a
Rhea happen. Inning and all are such a weird
things that still go on there. There's still like rituals that
were in progress that were left undone.
So there's magical fall out, like it's kind of like,
radiation. I love that metaphor for it,
which, by the way, creates more mutations in genetics mutations
radioactivity, so that would be another thing that maybe that
would be why there's so many strange results in valyria, not
just the magical experimentation, but proximity
to the results of these experiments and other forms of
Of magic might have a side effect like drinking the water
if you live in a drink water from a certain Lake that has
certain elements in it, it might have been a long-term effect on
you. Same thing, you live near a
volcano, you live near blood magic.
You live near these things. Well what does that do to you
Melisandre has changed over time viral or by her following her
lore. But also by being, you know, way
older than a person is supposed to be, you get the feeling
that's happening. People like Thoreau says, well,
just the use of magic changes you maybe mutates, you Now, the
inheritors of this tradition, of course, valyria blew up, but
there are still a lot of cities around the world that have some
of that knowledge and still use it.
Kogasa toes. I've outright called that
episode that we did on gases, good Gatos the city of blood
magic because it's such an explicit part of what happened
there. It was, it was a function of the
city for quite a while. And then, once they were
independent, they took it to another level.
I have suspicions about the city of mantar.
He's given its validity. Korean Heritage and the fact
that there's two headed people there and all sorts of weirdness
that sounds like radioactive magical fall out and they're
right on the edge of the Valyrian Doom Zone.
The city was just far away enough to not quite be swallowed
up, but close enough to have been affected its blood magic or
certain results of it can be passed down genetically.
And there's a lot of potential ramifications for now because
the valyrians would have spread those genetics all over the
world. We spoke in a few times about
the Persistence of genetic traits in West, Rossi families,
right? Maybe this is a similar, some
form of Magic. The dragon lord families have
their purple hair or purple hair, purple eyes and silver
gold hairs and all that. That could be magic.
That could be like magically altered genetics, that stayed in
place. I don't think we ever called
that blood match. We talked about it before but it
I would think that's what you would call it.
Something that permanently resides in the DNA and affects
how your genetic expression Works Magic on that levels.
Kind of cool. Think about like this, the
fusion of Science and Magic because you have to understand
science to write it that way I think and some level And it's
possible to borrow. I some of these cities still
practice blood magic is in part because certain families have
certain protected. Incestuous Bloodlines like you
said Sean maybe just record after 100 years or 200 years a
very random rare very recessive trait popped up like the
dragonlords of valyria some of these blood magic traits may
have popped up here and there maybe the fact that the
Lannisters have had green eyes and golden hair for thousands of
years is of ancient blood magic or the fact that the Stark's
kind of have had a look for so long that doesn't jive with
real-world genetics at all. Now sometimes we just hand wave
and say well George wrote his the next differently, it's not
earth. They can, he can do how we once
it's not that different but maybe there's a magical
explanation for it. Could be, could be absolutely
could be one of the best examples for a city that still
has these Traditions cohort or quote in folklore.
Even as far as Westeros cohort, is sometimes known as the city
of sorcerers for. It is widely believed that the
dark arts are practiced here, even to this day, divination,
blood, magic and necromancy. Are whispered of though, such
reports can seldom be proved One truth remains Undisputed.
However, the dark God of cohort, the deity known as the black
goat demands, daily, blood sacrifice, Cavs, Bullock's and
horses are the animals most often brought for the black
goats altars, but on holy days, condemned criminals.
Go beneath the knives of his cowled priests and in times of
danger and crisis, it is written that the high Nobles of the city
offer up their own children. To placate the God that he might
defend the city, the real-world version of that story, I think
comes from ancient Carthage. The Romans claim the
carthaginians did these things course, Romans also destroyed
all the carthaginian histories, so we don't know for sure,
whether that's just what they believed about the carthaginians
or what was actually going on. Anyway, it's a good example of
the blurry line between regular old superstitious Human
Sacrifice. The kind that has happened in
the real world and magically functional blood sorcery.
Very similar to sacrificing to the trees are the gods
demanding. These sacrifices are they truly
sated by them? Maybe maybe they are.
Maybe there's people who are having dreams of the black goat
and it's so compelling that they feel it's real.
Maybe it is real Beyond the Wall during the Great ranging.
They see evidence of child sacrifice to the where Woods, as
well, even in current times, not to mention what craster's doing
which is very explicitly. Child sacrifice giving his
children was male children to the others.
Is that blood magic or is that something?
I think it's definitely child sacrifice but does that count as
blood magic? I don't know, I don't know.
This is where Valyrian steel can be reworked cohort some claim.
The secrets of Valyrian steel are still known and if that's
not fully true it's where the most of the secrets are held
apparently cohort knows the most about that table home 'at the
one who reforged ice is co horik for example and here's a quote
from the world of Ice and Fire that takes a little closer
Meister. Paul's Treatise on cork
metalworking written during several years of residence in
the free City reveals just how Jealously the secrets are
guarded, he was Thrice publicly whipped and cast out from the
city for making too many inquiries.
The final time his hand was also removed following the allegation
that he stole a Valyrian steel blade.
According to Paul, the true reason for his final Exile was
his discovery of blood sacrifices including the killing
of slaves as young as infants, which the caloric Smith's used
in Efforts to produce a steel to equal that of the freeholds,
this confirms things. We pretty much already knew
tells us the caloric or trying to recover his lost learn
Secrets, it shows that they don't know, all of it, they know
it's possible but they don't know like the ingredients, you
know, the proportions or right words for the Spells or
whatever. There's something for multiple
something's missing. They just know it's possible
because it's clearly used to happen.
Clearly Valyrian steel exists. The trying to ReDiscover that
technology. Nina says in really, how far is
this from the story of his art? Hi, Any given Valyrian steel
sword. May not literally be the
lightbringer, but Valyrian steel swords, generally May well be
necessary tools. In the looming, apocalyptic
crisis against the others. Assuming they're actually good
against the others. They probably are.
We haven't seen it yet but they probably are.
So this is just really similar. You got killing someone when the
blade is at a certain point crucial Point its construction
or its foraging to empower with magic as very.
Yeah, it does sound really similar, doesn't it Sean?
Definitely, you know, one thing I thought that's turning on me
is the mixing up cause and effect.
I'm just thinking about the idea especially when it kind of
sometimes you have to question whether it's really blood magic
or some of the thing, or if it's a coincidence or how, or why the
blood magic Works. Something like Valyrian steel
was just physically is different than the other steals a little
more clear. That something probably magical
probably blood magic going on there, but sometimes, especially
with like prophecy type things. Like if you told someone, if you
sacrifice your dog, Order child, or if this community sacrifices,
an innocent virgin or whatever, then the crops will succeed.
Once you do that, the community might take it a little bit more.
Seriously, they might make sure to get that irrigation going,
they're gonna get up early in the morning and so was it really
the sacrifice? Was it, the determination you
got from everyone after the sacrifice and you can see
leaders using that to to get their people motivated and they
might not even realize themselves.
The difference in calls on stram I realy believe this sacrifice
work. We better do it again ever see
Season, you know. Yeah, like I mean that's that's
what happens with lirio describes the pentoshi
Traditions that way that they have, the prince of the fields,
and the prince of the sea and all that, and they cut their
throat. If things don't go well, it's
like that's why I what's his name.
The tattered Prince was like, nope.
I'm not going. I'm not going up for that
system. Thank you very much.
Yeah. And like, it just in a past,
we've talked about that, in my mind.
I was like, man. What an unfair system.
Hopefully that Prince doesn't get unlucky, but I do now I'm
thinking, like, what a good sister.
To motivate the princes to use their power to ensure.
The crops that is sacrificing like some random innocent like
yeah, at least it's the person responsible still, not a great
system but it's an improvement on the prince.
The right guy. He's got a bunch of resources
that he could like take baths and pots of gold if you want.
But he could use the gold to buy more seed and to fund irrigation
and hire someone to educate the Farmers on how to use fertilizer
and as all kinds of things he can do to make sure they don't
put him to death for the crop fails funny, how these
superstitions are leading. Our Are in this example, are
pushing people to try to learn more about, like I should learn
more about the science. Thanks to this Superstition,
that's ironic. It is also some of this is
Mercantile, secret ISM, though. Like the caloric if they really,
really were concerned about the ethics, they would have killed
him. So, the secret wouldn't get out
at all, but they just kept punishing him which implies
that, they don't care that much about people, knowing what
they're doing. They don't the recipe to get
out. Not the fact they're trying to
find the recipe. That's that's kind of what I'm
reading between the lines. There is that register with you
or It does it. Interesting today wouldn't kill
him. I it makes you wonder?
What else there is to? The story does?
Yeah, they need him for some reason.
It has some certain respect for him or how is this guy kids?
How is he not exiled from the city?
Like three whippings. And it's like jeez, like just
kick him out already. Like, oh mr.
Paul again that you mr. Paul is, how did he get in here
again? Maybe he was like a popular guy
with a strong following him. He become a martyr.
If they killed. Okay.
Head would be trouble with baby trouble with Westeros.
Us. If we kill this mystery.
No, it's so far away. One day, we'll do it just like
we did for some of the other three cities will do an episode
on cohort but maybe get a little deeper into some of these things
are to learn, think about some new topics, a shy, we have
already done an episode on so check that out if you're so
inclined or haven't seen it already because a shy seems to
be the most source for city in the world, it certainly includes
blood magic when there's lists like every form of magic.
If you ever want to see a list of magic, go to the ice, the a
shot, I entry in the world of Ice and Fire is the biggest list
of types of magic you'll see in the series.
You know, it's cohort kind of like when George was explaining
the co-producer thing that's when you pay for a threesome or
more blood magic and Shadow binding and red priests are all
listed separately in that quote for about a shy and all the
magic. So I just more evidence that
these things were separate or at least some people see them as
separate. Maybe certain categorization,
attempts would link them more closely.
The magic does what it does and we try to fit it into our
systems. It doesn't conform.
We have to express it. It's a one-way system.
Not we don't what we decide doesn't make it true.
Now marwan's presence there and a shy doesn't mean he learned
blood magic on his own but he certainly learned some things
about it. He certainly has some ideas and
Concepts. I don't know that he knows how
to cast any spells specifically but maybe he does.
I mean he traded his knowledge of the body to marry Master.
He taught her like the West Rossi secrets of medicine that
they have. What did she teach him?
The door died, did he? I kind of doubt.
He just loves ya, baby, that was it.
Yeah, she traded sexual favors for secrets of the body secured
to the body for secret of the body.
Okay, there you go. What's an even exchange Mars at
the nicest looking man. So maybe it was his route there
but it is opening quote, open question like a shy.
It sounds like people do that sort of thing.
They trade secrets with each other.
Like the anarchists paradise for magic users and the fact that
the place is all messed up, his part of that is like, yeah,
well, there's no Central authority to keep things clean
or to say no that kind of magic is bad, because it could ruin
the whole city that. Ship has sailed there.
The shadow is nearby. That whole realm is magically
messed up. Yeah.
What if they, if they, if rules could have stopped that from
happening, it's way too late. Of course, there's Melisandre of
a shy. She calls herself that she
clearly has knowledge of some things.
If we get more chapters from her, might get some more inside.
Her looks at what blood magic looks like, though, we may have
to parse it from real orgasm and other things that she's doing
like Shadow binding. A shy of course, is ripe for
possibility there, but for more check out the episode on that or
send us your thoughts because it's also very vague.
We know that blood magic happens there.
But being specific is completely impossible.
Does that show? I have an export.
Yes it does. It has Cheap wealth, Gold and
Gems are plentiful there and food is not.
So if you are willing to make the voyage and bring food, you
can get a huge prices for regular food stuffs.
There, the fish that that grow in their rivers or not to be
eaten the crops don't. Okay, animals pack animals,
don't survive their children. Don't live their children
aren't, are, rarely born there or just aren't there.
Yeah, there's just no children in a shy apparently.
Maybe not literally zero children, but something's wrong,
I'll get sacrificed. Yeah, hey, infants.
Something's wrong with that place.
Multiple something's wrong with that place.
So, that's another thing we could, hopefully get a little
more of those animals Andres been there more than been there.
If we get in her head, a little more, will get, maybe some more
insight to what's there, but George probably keep a lot of
that. Pretty shadowy uses of blood
magic. Just a couple of examples here
that popped up here that follow different.
Categories. If you imagine it's blood.
Magic is the source and the Spells, the results are the
types of magic you can get from that Source.
Communion is one of them, vah reefs, and the voice that being
from Beyond the communicated, with the sorcerer that cut him.
His involuntary. Sacrifice of his body part.
What the hell, is that thing that the voice came from?
It could have been virus themselves as he was drugged, he
was young. He doesn't have a clear memory
of it, but it's pretty hard for it to not be magical mentions.
The possibly of glass candles, like, the voice came through a
glass candle, rather than just us.
Imagine it'd be a demon. You know, the voice coming
through a glass candle, it gets muddy.
Didn't the audio quality isn't great glass candle.
See, you know, it's like it's just you know like a zoom call
from a remote location, you know?
Because we work very well. I always default look for the
scientific explanation for us was having some sort of
hallucination some sort of chirp superimposed memory after the
fact or whatever. You know, and I appreciate that
George allows this to me. It's to me.
It's way more interesting when it's ambiguous when they're
cool. When it could be a coincidence
or Melisandre, really did make the prediction when it could be
blood magic, or it was just going to happen anyway.
I liked it more. When there's mystery
surrounding. Yeah, George anyone, it will
fill it out and Here. And I think it makes it more
exciting when once in a blue moon it is Photon, good
Melisandre. Bursts Shadow baby in Davos is a
witness to it and he's a trustworthy narrator then also
like whoa it's just it's so much harder.
Yeah, the the other ambiguous ones always talking up chance of
coarseness. I have to re-evaluate them now
but maybe they were so chassis. Question is, but I gotta it
makes you rethink things. It adds more levity to a come in
and future, but I think it works so much better the way.
He does it, whereas few and far between, when it's clear and
definitive match. Yeah, I totally agree and it
Sparks these discussions as well.
It allows a, you know that's part of the ambiguity gives us
things to talk about and that leads to other topics.
Just makes it more discussable overall, so it could have been a
supernatural being could have been a human speaking from afar
through a candle, who knows? There's lots of possibilities
there and it's all just a story. That's the other thing.
We didn't see this happen, far as could be making the whole
thing up. He could have the story where he
became a unit could be entirely different, it could be entirely
unmagical entirely just straight up, he's being completely honest
in every other scenario. Why would he be dishonest this
time? Good point, Sean.
I have no reason to believe bars as long about anything now
recall, the guy not only cut viruses parts off and he burned
them on a Brazier as part of the spell casting which needed
points out. That's also what the the
worshippers of the unsullied. Worshippers how they discuss it
when they have their parts burned on her Altar and learn
her secret name as a result, that's how they phrase it.
So, that might be a little more of a little magical overlap
stuff that we've noted. So many times in this world or a
story from varis drawn when he tells his fantastic life.
Yeah, that's right. Nina says, it's a neat about
these viruses story. But like, you, Sean, she thinks
the Magical elements are sketchy hazy and should be taken with
too much granularity. Should be vague.
They're more about viruses story that whole anecdote, is more
about who versus a character then trying to get out like the
nature of magic in this world but it works as both, I suppose
even if he's just totally making all that stuff up.
That's still says something about his character that that's
the story that he would make up. Yeah, you're totally right.
It's the sort of the mat. It's a multi-level example of
magic should serve the story. It's really serving, sorry for
the scare in multiple ways. Just about this, something else
occurred to me, keeping it ambiguous like that even to the
author even when we know certain things are real magic.
It keeps us from thinking of other characters in the story
who don't believe it as being foolish because there's good
reason to not believe it. Yeah yeah.
Even if it's true we understand why they might not believe it's
true. We can see how his chance and
coincidence. Even the real magic we see is
few and far between and hard for anyone to prove happened and so
on right on A nation. We've mentioned a couple times
here. That's just prophecy / for
telling or seeing into the past Maggy the Frog.
Obviously was our first example. There's a Nina, a one-eyed sex
worker at the happy part in Bravos.
That Aria is aware of not under. The name argue though, by the
way, I gotta say. We brought up - frog several
times. It's something that occurred to
me. When I was going through my
research. I was like, wait a minute,
Maggie Magi, that's probably like an evolved word.
That's probably a missile. Yeah.
It's pretty much, it's almost explicitly sad because when
qyburn inserts, you're talking about it and he says Meiji.
She says, oh, is that how you pronounce it?
So she's implying. The chyron said it differently
than she says it and that can lead you to Maggie.
Yeah. So you're totally right.
Yeah. Mag I'm age.
I met yeah let me even further to wonder if frog is similarly
an evolved word. If that meant something wrong
part. Yeah I'm not quite sure what it
could be. It's not a frog.
Okay rogar. Yeah Frozen sure.
I'm not sure. I'll think about it more.
If someone has an idea. Yeah something between a chat is
warty know. Yeah, that's more of a toad
Maggie, the toad magi, the something like imagine her in
her youth. At her height with respected
power from blood magic. What her title might have been?
Yeah, no, wait, what point, it became the frog with that could
if the front is a weird nickname, the Frog like what's
from? Yeah.
That anyway, maybe she uses frogs blue, but maybe that's a
simple answer. If she eats got a permit, she
used to pray. A runaway Kermit go far from
lannisport. Melisandre and the leeches.
This is ones curious as you said, Sean burning the leeches
on the fire did not cause the death Joffrey and Renly and the
Robb Stark. Yeah, like you said Mouse under
just you can see where it's going.
It's a Civil War and most young kings, get killed, you know,
like they don't do very well and it's not hard to predict that.
So I think more likely because she can see the future, she can
foretell the future. She saw that coming like, well
they're gonna die. I'm gonna act like I'm gonna set
it up. So, Him.
He's part of it. He thinks he participated or
that I have more power than it seems like I have And she's also
setting up this notion. There's a power in King's blood
which is why the leeches have specifically have Kings blood in
them, which I think is Paving the way to burn Shireen.
She's setting that idea for this could be necessary.
She had just spring it on him later.
He's like, well, you know, would solve this problem is burning a
child. She's already paved its road
with Cedric, but a lot of us think it's still going to
happen. That was set up, not a diversion
From the Path. Permanently was a temporary
diversion from that path. Not a permanent one and yes, a
melisandre's Dishonesty is a part of what's leading Stannis
to make these decisions? It's ultimately going to be.
His call will be his. It will be on him if he does it
on his shoulders, but on hers as well.
Yeah. So this is, this is yet another
layer of conundrum here. When we have blue, what's what
is and what isn't blood magic? What is Magic, and what is it?
And what are the magical effects here?
When we have someone lying about them in order to in her mind?
She's trying to save the world. So it's again, it's like an
Azure High thing where she's not.
It's not out of malice, it's not.
Of gain. She's not trying to make herself
seem great. She is trying to save the world.
What's a few Lies when you're trying to save the world?
You know, if you look at it that way and sound level, I think
she's trying to make herself seem great but and with this
greater goal in order to the world and thought.
Yeah and there's a lot of ways. Like she this this magic quote
unquote, right? Could be either making it look
like she's able to predict that they died or that she caused
their deaths. Maybe she is able to predict
they died, but she already did it with some other magic.
Now needs to make everyone believe in the show of it right
and believe in her power but maybe she just predicted it just
because it seems like it's a likely thing to happen and it
wasn't necessarily a magical vision and fire and any of those
scenarios. It still adds out my thought I
had earlier about the idea of like you become more committed.
When you make this great sacrifice, whether Melisandre
even realizes it or intends it if Stannis sacrifices his
daughter, there's no going back. There's no way he Could be
convinced that he's not doing it right.
Like even if there was clear, logical proof, he will just be
insane to the end. Yeah.
That makes sense admit what he did.
Yeah, right. He just would not be able to
admit that to himself and would continue on insanely on this
Quest even if Melisandre realized it was wrong and try to
tell him different, you know, I don't know if that's an angle or
Direction they might go or how much Melisandre even realizes
that but she might, she might have done it herself.
They knew she might have sacrificed in her past to get on
this Quest. She's now on and just Can't
allow ourselves to abandon it because the sacrifice she made,
maybe, maybe I like that. I we, we do tend to think that
way about Stannis, but thinking about Melisandre in that room,
light is. Yeah, that's a good point.
Is her Shadow baby form of blood magic, or is that shadow
binding? I think we're both.
It's pretty arguably is both. I don't know.
I mean like there's there's a womb and there's blood but then
but it's it comes out as a shot. Oh, I don't know if there's any
wasn't a sacrifice made that we saw but she did take some
stannis's, like Life Energy. To create that feels blood,
magic ish. Yeah, bone magic magic.
Sex Magic? Yeah, bone Mets.
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teeth today. Call Nicki says, is killing the
prince of pentos. Blood magic and aegon Targaryen
has I always wondered if that was why Penta sacrificed their
princes. Yeah, I think it's an open
question. I think it, I would guess.
No, but like I said, Sean, maybe it used to work and they kept
doing it because it used to remember.
They used to have the right words and used to actually be
spells and it was functional magically functional and
somewhere along the line. They lost his the words but they
kept doing it because people Freak out if they stopped.
Yeah, maybe they don't need to do it.
As long as crops don't fail but when the crops fail, all right,
it's time to sacrifice somebody. It's so funny trying to make
these things into like frame. These things into the real
world, like no. But this is a world where magic
actually happens. Like, so many things would be
different any calls. Russell says, to song, / singing
have something to do with it as well.
Mary Maz duur sings and screams before she dies Melisandre.
Sings A Prayer. I think even in the house was a
dragon, Damon sings. Yeah, there is a lot of singing
involved in magic. In this world Song of Ice and
Fire, it is the Song of Ice and Fire.
Great Point, great point. I think it's a great way to do
it because the right words, is a neat concept for magic, but I
think it's even cooler if it's more intricate, it has to be the
right inflection. Like think of think of the evil
dead when Ash doesn't quite get there.
Like I said, the words kind of, you know, and the Necronomicon
if you don't say it just right, it doesn't work or Purdue or it
works some horrible other way. Similar concept.
You're just there just extending that concept instead of certain
inflections certain tones you go straight into song which is what
a song is Justice. Got more explicit tones and
inflections and that takes you to things like tonal languages
like Chinese where the way you say the word matters.
Way more than like an English. The change is the definition of
the word. Not just emphasis.
I mean, like, literally, like one means brick.
The other means Battleship. It's not even just like Slightly
similar now it's not even remotely similar you know.
It's easy to relate to that when you think about an English we
use the tones to change the meaning of a sentence.
Not a word but like you went to the store.
You went to the store. Yeah.
I like those are very different question.
Yeah. Yeah.
You're not quite changing me the word but you significantly
changed meaning of the sentence. Yeah.
By where you put the emphasis. Yeah.
So this with tonal languages it's just you're taking the
entire definition and you would have these same emphasis
consider. And as well, I like that magic
systems can include that because it adds a level of difficulty
and complexity and skill to the whole thing.
Plus it just makes it a little creepier.
We have someone singing and Magic is happening and it gets
more intense in the song builds. It's like it's very cinematic on
the page. When that, when that happens,
the a trickle. There you go very great.
However, the magic, however, wield the magic is, you can
imagine the magic user wanting it to be theatrical.
Sometimes they might like Yelp Bill Melisandre.
Slasher on trick they add to it. I owe me a little throw song in
here. Here make it seem even more.
Give us some gravitas, like song doesn't actually matter but I
like she just wants. She's one of the captive
audience to sing in front of like, okay, actually, all this
blood magic is just so I can sing my song for y'all.
Christina K says with regard to Target immunity.
If I recall correctly, there was only one Targaryen who died of
disease, who bonded a dragon and it was bail on and his burst
belly, which might have been poisoned.
So, maybe it isn't targaryens, but the dragon bond.
That gives them. The enhanced immunity jaehaerys
seem to think that bonding dragons makestar.
Healthier plus rhaenys and Amy's.
Both got healthier, once they bond a dream fire.
And Quicksilver respectively. That is true.
I mean, not necessarily her conclusion, but those details I
believe those details that she relator all accurate which does
maybe tell a story. Yeah.
Yeah, church because yeah, definitely a good parallel to
draw. Like maybe not conclusive proof
but a strong Theory. Yeah.
Like if you divided the health of the targaryens pre and post
Dragon era, I think she's got a point.
I think you might find more deaths to disease in the A
poster. Kana Cara, viserys did not have
a dragon that he was bonded to. Is he decayed away and died?
That's true. That is more show only, but
you're right, because he didn't his Decay was more, didn't have
that, he didn't have the leprosy in the book version.
He just standard, you know, ate too much drank too much.
And that went went downhill, but he did, you know, he did have
solved the hand injury in the book and lost his fingers and
had an infection. So there was the infection is
that matters? That's the part that I think
really ties the two together. So yeah, that's a great Theory,
Christina. Kay Like it more more research
perhaps is required or is, would be granted, yeah, warranted.
That's the word I wanted chatty Lumpkin, great name, chatty
Lumpkin you're on is getting ready to sacrifice priests
Sorcerers etc for a holy blood sacrifice in The Forsaken
chapter Mary master was a God's wife was she a Holy Blood
Sacrifice, interesting. Yeah.
Like what blood, what kind of value did Mary Masters?
Blood have is a practitioner of multiple types of magic,
whatever that effect had on her. And her Blood being part of a
ritual as a sacrifice that change.
That's actually something we're gonna talk about a little later.
Like, in the episode is the type of blood matter, it building on
the topic of Kings blood. Well, what about other types of
blood? So more on this later chatty,
hey, it's their name chatty loved and, you know, so we'll
come back to this topic in Chattanooga.
Tennessee. Yeah, it's I think it's the last
section. We haven't documented a, so,
yeah, stay tuned more to come on that and Christina K again.
Another comment. Says, honestly ashtrays method
of eating, isn't all that different than most major modern
cities. City isn't out there growing,
its own food, good point, very good point.
And they are and food is really expensive.
In Downtown Manhattan. At all, funny is very prevalent
and they do have a lot of money, right?
They have lots of money, lots of the financial district, and
fashion districts Manhattan, a wealthy Place.
Jamie also think about just Cost of Living stuff like that, you
make a lot more money when you live in New York City with
doesn't mean that you're rich. So I guess.
Oh I agree, you're right. I mean, the money is there, it
doesn't mean you have extra because there's so much of its
being sucked up by living there a shy maybe doesn't have Have
the like real estate costs because it doesn't have a big
population but the importing cost would be even greater.
Yep, guilty. Undertaker.
Isn't the Frog, just what Cersei calls her?
I figure. She just thought she looked like
a frog. Oh yeah, maybe that was like I
do. Yeah.
Maybe that wasn't the nickname, like everyone.
Yeah. That's a good point.
I was like, I don't know that we've ever seen.
Anyone else, call that woman the Frog besides Cersei, and Cersei
is just kind of an insulting kind of person and she was a
child who might have just like called her the Frog.
I think the only person who even vaguely He refers to Maggie is
Kevin. Kevin cats of her briefly for a
second. Yeah, I don't think he uses the
Frog either though. So yeah.
Maybe just what she looked like. Yeah.
And your first, the only thing you know, and she thinks back
about it, no one else would know if she heard of the Frog people
back. Who are you talking about?
Yeah, like remember that woman. Yeah.
Anyway, so we've been doing this podcast since 2012 back in 2015,
we received this email related to the topic hand.
The desha will not fit on screen and read for those of you who
can't see it here is this email from hot blue.
Hot blue. I want to make a blood sacrifice
rituals but I do not know how to do.
Is there a book to do that? Or can you help me or you?
Can you help me? Sorry, to put words in their
mouth, take them out. Yes, I didn't even block out the
email. There.
Because I don't think this person really needs care about
their privacy. Oh yeah, there's those are email
from 2015 and I definitely say that one.
I don't know if they ever figured that out.
Yeah, so if you're out there, hot blue, let us know if you
ever had any success with your blood Magic Ritual.
We did not respond to this email.
How cruel and callous of us? Yeah, I mean we didn't have it,
we don't have what s. We don't actually have any help
for them so Continuing on with the different uses of blood
magic. Here's an interesting funerary
practice quote and horselord dies.
His horse to slang with him so he might ride proud into the
night lands. Bodies are burned beneath the
Open Sky and the call Rises on his fiery Steed to take his
place Among the Stars. The more fiercely, the man
burned and life brighter. His star will shine in the
darkness blood and fire but probably not blood magic.
It could. Be that seems more like, just a
belief. On the other hand, Danny seems
to see, Khal Drogo Spirit Rising, when she's doing the
dragon pyre, think, or, she's seeing and thinking, all sorts
of weird things in that moment, maybe she's seeing what she
wants to see. But there's a chance it's real.
This was maybe fall under astro-man.
See and blood magic. You know, Astro, man.
That's a cool word. I just wanted to make sure I got
the chance to say, astro-man, see at least one episode.
Is that when you use the Astros? Yes, The baseball Mighty magic.
It's how they keep winning. Good pictures, you're coming out
of nowhere, like I suck now. He's amazing, Astro man.
See ya remind me of I thought that I had about the idea of
blood magic, if you sacrifice someone, I guess.
What I'm asking is, it doesn't matter that you believe that it
is like what if you truly believe that killing us, go is
the reason your crops, are you performing blood magic, even
though it's just a coincidence that you have say, no.
But you, what is it? You are yeah.
What if it partly works like Like what if you think, I'm
gonna sacrifice my child to bring my wife back to life and
give me a new child and it brings your wife back to life,
but she's a zombie and can't give you a new child.
Well, it's hard work. Wheatley does that mean?
It wasn't what magic you like? Yikes.
That's a good lead into some of these next Parts where we get
into the may be disputes or get into the weeds as to what even
the Dothraki sea is blood-magic some of the things they do.
Kind of seem like pretty similar yet they're really disgusted.
By even the idea of some of the things that Mary Master suggest
Drogo did technically get burned on a pyre.
So he may have. That still may have happened for
him. If his belief, the beliefs were
still sort of carried through like was part of, maybe that's
part of why her bloodrider stuck with her throughout all this.
Because they didn't want to, they were really disgusted by
what happened. They did not want her to do any
of this stuff. And Drago's blood Riders were
HonorBound to make sure he was burned on his pyre.
Had they survived, they might have made sure that happened but
they weren't said killed during the ritual of his resurrection
and here is a quote, getting us into the resurrection.
Kill her and you kill your call. Danny said, this is blood-magic.
He said it is forbidden. I am Khaleesi and I say it is
not Not forbidden in vaes dothrak called rogo.
Slew a stallion and I ate his heart to give our son strength
and courage. This is the same, the same.
That is Joe go, and he's not demanding, he's not telling he's
begging, he's begging her, not to do this.
He's like, please don't do this. And let me kill her, let me kill
this magic, I don't use her spells.
Let's kill her and he's begging for it.
It's an interesting arguments, pretty compelling if you're a
Dothraki, it's a pretty good argument.
I mean, I don't believe eating that horse heart.
Put the strength of the stallion in her body and in her son's
heart or her cousins getting give her son, courage, not
magically, but the Dothraki really do believe that they
really do believe that that stallions heart, that she ate
during that ceremony that she didn't choke back up that she
went through all that work for weird.
Bloody as hell was gross? How is that?
Okay magic, right? How is that?
Okay, how and then sacrificing a horse to give the strength to
Drogo? That's what she said.
She's a ghost. Strength of the horse, going to
the rider. I mean, it's like, literally the
phrase, she's uttering. And here's name is Tag.
I guess it's easy to rationalize a Khaleesi eating horse hard for
the Dothraki because they themselves even worse is simply
for food on a regular basis. If it is considered permissible
need horseflesh for any given meal than it's not.
So strange for calls wife to eat another part of the horse even
while attaching the symbolism to that meal.
Even if implying there's magic going on in the ceremony but
what Mary was proposing to do, was kill a calls horse, the most
important and when the khalasar Is already kind of a No-No.
The Possession is so sacred. That remember how this takes a
little bit for a key lesson here?
Calls will share their Khaleesi with their blood Riders but they
don't share their horse. It's gross, but just from their
perspective, that's a big deal. So killing the horse as part of
the ritual, it was a huge moment that one that we perhaps
overlooked a little bit because that's to us.
This is a goddess. This whole thing is creepy and
weird, but the significance of this because horse is probably
dust. This is the gross part of
animals being killed. It's a sacrifice like we can
Overlook that part. I'm not saying it.
The Dothraki exactly have things figured out but so my argument
about blood magic. Like I want to say that burning
someone at the stake. So counts is blood-magic because
I think blood means more sacrifices.
Oh yeah, it's a bigger sacrifice to kill the calls whore horse
than to eat the part of some random horse bloodiness aside.
It's about the sacrifice to the dog barking.
Yeah, so like, when Danny a the horse Hearts me.
That's, I don't believe. That's what magic, the You may
be or believe that it's magical or maybe not blood magic, but
they believe it's for me, they don't, but they probably should,
if they weren't being hypocrite, right?
You can see why an outsider would look at the seeing things
and be like, this is really similar in terms of the way,
it's presented. Its.
But yeah, yeah, it's me. That's not blood magic.
It's just bloody, it's just blood, right?
But but since the Dothraki do believe it, we have to kind of
look at it from their perspective.
Here's the actual spell which gives us a look at what she's
saying and a few other things, few other details that I want to
discuss quote. It's Diane kick.
And reared is for Caro, Caro, and I'll go hold him.
Close to the tub where the call? Floated like one already dead
puss blood seeping from his wound to stay in the bath
Waters, Mary Masjid or chanted words, in a tongue that Danny
did not know and a knife appeared in her hand and he
never saw where it came from. It looked old hammered red,
bronze leaf-shaped. Its blade covered with ancient.
Glyphs the Magi drew it across the stallions throat, under the
noble head and the horse screamed.
And Ordered is a blood poured out of him in a red Rush.
He would have collapsed the men of her cos held him up.
Strength of the mounts, go into the writer Mary saying is horse
blood swirled into the Waters of jogos bath strength is the
Beast? Go into the man right on.
Yeah, so it's a very similar phrase like they're trying to
put the horse heart strength of the horse into the baby strength
of the Beast into the man. It really does seem similar
right. She's chanting a knife with
glyphs Drogo floating in the bath blood of the stallion added
to that bass. Nina says, compare the, the
woman brand season is Test which means earliest Vision in the
weirwood tree, where they're also killing an old man for
killing a man with a bronze sickle on a weirwood tree, and
he Taste the Blood and their, she's chanting.
And I believe that blade has ruins, as well.
Maybe not, but definitely bronze.
But it doesn't really work out this way.
Does it the strength of the rider did not go into the man or
the strength of the Beast? Did not go into the rider Drogo?
Doesn't seem very strong and after this does he he was in
fact, severely handicapped but barely walking symbol of Mary's
expression. That what is what good is life.
When all you love is lost Drogo is alive, but he's not really
Drogo, right? Not, not in the strictest sense
of his personality and his behavior.
He's just a breathing cadaver almost.
Now was that in part because the spell was interrupted or
interfered with or because Mary was just taking her ass was an
aspect of her revenge not clear on is that really what we're
here to discuss today, but I wanted to throw that question
out there. I want to focus more on whether
it was an accident, whether the interfering, whether drug
whether Jorah walking into the 10th, through it off, certainly
she says that later she's certainly Danny seems to believe
that later, so let's continue. Here's the here's more of the
spell-casting. Here's the continuing, the
quote, very much doors voice Rose to a high ululating whale.
This sent a shiver down Danish back, some of the Dothraki began
to mutter back away. The tent was aglow with the
lighter braziers within through the blood, splattered sand still
chic. Thumps Shadows moving Miriam has
door was dancing, and not alone. Danny saw naked fear on the
faces of the Dothraki. This must not be crossed though.
Thundered that's when the fight breaks out, skipping the
details. We come to this as if we ignored
the killing and watch the tent. The whole time, quote inside the
tent, the shapes were dancing circling the Brazier, and the
Bloody bath dark against the sand silt.
And some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a
Great Wolf and another like a man wreathed in Flames.
So yeah, the Spells don't always involve mere words.
This is the singing going on. That we talked about earlier
really works. Add so much to the effects to
the creepiness of it, shadows and Fire, and Blood or happening
there. The Wolves presence is a bit
puzzling. On the surface.
It sounds a bit like Jon Snow. Like a wolf to represent John
Starks. I'd wreathed in flame to
represent his Targaryen side, but but why now it is, it seems
kind of out of place in this moment, but maybe it's just
general. Or Shadow member the series used
to be set to be three books. Maybe George is trying to be
more economical but anyway, it isn't.
We know, this is a blood magic thing happening.
We don't have to worry too much about exactly what that wolf is
doing there. Maybe that's a discussion for
some other time, Nina says Mary also suggests that the dead will
be coming to dance in the tent. So is it possible that these
Shadows represent past debt Rickard Stark was burned to
death and Brandon killed at the same time on the orders or
Danny's? Father, that could be it.
Yeah. Are these Spirits like Mary
looking for vengeance against Ares?
His daughter. Who cool idea or are these
representations of real orgasm in the old God's Divine
witnesses? To a magical Ritual from Mary's
eclectic, magical education, nice phrasing.
Their Nina Mary's eclectic little magic education because
she has, he does no magic from a variety of sources and perhaps
wove them together to create this spell.
Danny is terrified. What's going on?
The chill goes down her spine, of course it is terrifying.
So nothing's too surprising, they're accepted before Danny.
And the fear powder that Mary through that affected her.
Handmaids. So Dan, and Dan, he's afraid of
something. Take note because Danny is quite
Brave notably brave. But this is throwing her off
because this is real, Cosmic horror stuff.
She's confused as to why they would take her inside the tent
there, she's hazy, she's not all there, she's been struck, she's
bleeding. So she's her mind isn't
functioning normally but she's like, why are you taking me in
there? Why the shapes the dancers, why
are you taking me in there and she realize she's being carried?
That's why I call it Cosmic or so because she realizes, she's
being carried by seeing the night sky above her, and it's
black and empty. And that's what makes her
realize that she's being carried into the tent and she freaks out
understandably. The starless void is kind of
what throws her off there and the sunset during the ritual, it
was dusk. It was the sun was out when the
ritual began, which makes you wonder couple questions here is
a lot of questions, really? But two in particular, stands
out to me here. Is it possible?
Other people weren't seeing what Danny saw?
She's like, why are they carrying me into this tent with
the Shadows? Why the heck, would you do that?
On the other hand, people were staring at the tent and freaked
out, but there's plenty of other things to be freaked out about
the singing. The fact that they know a spell
has been cast in there, all these other things, just other
people looking scared. When you see someone staring at
something and they look scared, you might get concerned too.
We humans tend to work that way, you're like well if they're
scared, I might have, I might should be scared too.
I mean, kofo new blood magic was happening when he walked into
this, must not be like he knew that a spell was being cast.
What do you think about that? Shawn is it's just a weird thing
that like only Danny could see the Shadows.
It's possible. But I don't know.
That's a bit of a stretch. I wonder if even if other people
could see the Shadows if they would see the same Shadows like
a Roy saw some other. Yeah, yeah.
Do we know who carried her in there?
Jorah sure. Yeah, on his own.
Yeah, he blamed himself for later because they her baby
being dead. Was partly blamed on that.
Like you said, this is more than two.
Questions. And I'm sure has been a lot of
speculation on this, but I can't decide if I think that Mary
mazdoor was a doing something, she knew wouldn't have the
outcome. She promised she was trying to
put drug, go into some sort of coma or be.
She really thought this was going to resurrect them or hoped
but didn't know how to do it, right?
Messed it up somehow or if she really did everything, right?
And it would have worked but drawer and Danny ruined it.
Like, there's so many ways that this could be.
It's hard to really know what she hoped for intended.
Yeah, it's an open question. We've discussed in Valerie.
This, we don't need to really rehash it, but just to restate,
what the question is, whether it's whether or not merely
adapted on the Fly because Danny came into the tent and because
of the extra death happening around her that she couldn't
have seen coming. Like the drug was blood Riders
being killed just outside of the tent.
May have souped up the magic like all this death happier or
interfere with it somehow just clouded The Waters who knows So
she may be changed or tactics based on the what was happening
or going on around her and mid spell, or maybe she always
intended on murdering Rago as well.
That was always part of it, or I seem to lean towards, she
pivoted towards that option, and she certainly claims credit for
it later, she's like, yeah, now the stallion who mounts.
The world will never destroy all the cities Etc.
Well, I think she still will because it's probably Danny not
Rigo. Anyway, wasn't just three of
drugs, blood rush killed one of Danny's was cold as well, so
therefore, bloodrider deaths, right?
Outside the tent. None of these things.
Mary could have expect that. I don't think.
I mean, yes, we have people that can see into the future, maybe
she saw in the Flames somehow, but that seems a little much.
It was Jesse. I did wonder if maybe long ago
and her youth, she had some vision of a blond woman kept
hearing who's pregnant, and she supposed somehow she's going to
end up killing her. She might have had weird Visions
in the past that she didn't fully understand.
But we're starting to see come to fruition.
I thought she had to do this for some reason, but, whatever had
to do, this is I to save the baby try to not save the baby,
you know, whatever. Yeah, neither thinks that she
aimed for both of these things. He wanted to disable Drogo so
that her his khalasar would break apart because he knows,
she knows how their leadership style works and no one would
follow him in that state, and it would cause chaos.
And that would be revenge against that callous are and him
for leading them to her Village and it would also, of course,
killing me. Sighing, that's a world.
That's a little more. Obviously, you don't want that.
She didn't want all these other cities to get burned either in
that prophecy to come true. So that does make sense.
I'm Not understand convinced. But I get why some people are
and either way because it seemed like poisoning Drogo, basically,
she either did or had the opportunity to do and it
basically worked right. Well, I don't think she poisoned
him though because he it didn't. It didn't go bad for him until
he chained. He till he refused her first
attempt of healing and then and then it got bad.
Yeah. So anyway, let's not rehash that
that's, that's outside of this. Yeah.
So let's talk. Let's go back to the spell.
This is what Mary says, right before we're going to get into
some more details here once. I begin to sing.
No one must enter this tent. My song will wake Powers old and
dark. The dead will dance here this
night. No living, man must look on
them. Whether it's intentional or not,
either way, it left, Rego doubly, troubling like I think
there's another example here. Two things are going on.
He the dragony aspect of him. The fact that he had a stubby
tail and scales that's more of a Targaryen thing.
Maybe it was made more likely to Been because of all the magic
flying around but skipping the dragon description.
Here's the part that doesn't fit with the Targaryen incest aspect
when I touched him. The flesh, Slough It Off the
Bone and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of
corruption. He had been dead for years, dead
for years, it's such a peculiar phrase and Danny says she could
feel him kicking inside her when she went into the tent.
So he was alive when she entered the tent.
It's almost as if the ancient powers.
She's summoned old Ray go to them, rather than her pulling
like a spirit to Drogo or some like that.
Like they took him because he's weak and, and young life, like
the others will like the others lust after young life, more than
older lives, a similar kind of bookend magical thing here,
where these beings from, whatever they are, want this
energy in the younger, the energy, the better.
It is kind of like the undying, how they wanted, Danny for her
Youth and and all that. Living in Mortal for so long but
they need to renew themselves and I wonder too if this the
timing of the spell mattered transition from day to night,
while the spell has been cast and there's a lot of ancient
Traditions fantasy and real world.
Where they people say yeah when night day transitions tonight
and the opposite is when the dimensional barriers are at
their lusus between this world and other dimensions.
Other Realms is when they transition to night, that's when
that's when magic works the best.
So in addition to the concept of magic working better in certain
places, maybe in certain seasons, Ian's also certain
times a day might be more like the midnight, you know, right.
When the clock strikes midnight or when the sun is a designer.
When there's a Clips it all fits pretty well with that whole like
genre of magical timing and conditions have to be just
right? And Mary manager says, the grave
casts Long, Shadows long, and dark.
And in the end no light can hold them back.
Danny claims those Shadows touched Jorah to and perhaps
herself and whatever and it had you will touch me room as do.
I as Said, she wielded it. It passed through her, she
brought it out. She was there in the tent by
herself until other people came. In one reason, she might not
have won. Anyone else in the ten was
because she would be worried that someone would just come in
and chop her head off. And that would be the end of it.
She was like, he tells the story of oh, it'll, it'll go really
bad. If something is a tent-like, try
to express it in a way that that puts the danger on them to
rather than just on her lots of different ways to interpret.
That the magic though is something that we when we talk
about that seen a lot, we usually focus on the story
aspect or just Just the Revenge part of it.
Like the people like Mary is justifiably angry at what was
done to her and her people Danni has her business and she's mad
about Drogo, the that's usually where the discussions go.
So trying to get into the magic. Here is really interesting but
also pretty difficult, you know, another Trope I guess I want to
say like no living man must look on them.
So one like maybe it would have been okay if Danny just went in
there on her own but If someone else, if a man drawer, whoever
else, they ruined it. But also to your point, maybe
that didn't really matter. But she wasn't worried about
Danny coming in and chop her head off, but one of the mud
Riders might that's why. Anyway they were the big threat.
Yeah, the blood Riders have been threatening her the whole time
like both sets of blood Riders. So that's a good point.
And I think more about the phrase of being dead for years.
She says pow, Awakening Powers old and dark.
You know, statistic ancient powers are kind of makes sense
that the link as much as magic and ever makes sense.
The link between Between old powers and a body that's been
dead for years. And that thing, transpose, by
the way, part of where the tyrian time-traveling fetus idea
comes from? Yeah, you gotta inject humor
every few minutes here to give this light is such a dark topic.
Is there any evidence that Jorah has its touched him in some way
mean didn't seem like he's behaved any differently before
or after he's always been losting after Danny and doing
his thing and depressed for being an exile.
I don't know that there's any Notable change in him.
He just keeps being himself, he has a little guilt over it, but
There are things about him. You might be able to point out
as change, but there are many other sources for that change
other than its didn't seem to be some shift happen, right?
At this moment. You're right.
It's hard to narrow it down. And pin it on, just this, this
scene is, well, is a bookend in the first book in that.
It's not unlike the prologue where the others appear and it's
one of our best looks at them, powerful and particular, and
detailed old Supernatural element introduced.
And then kind of Old behind the curtain from then on like
waiting for us to get more of it.
Like we want more of that but it's also kind of cool that we
get very little of it because that makes it interesting and
enticing and keeps us wanting mysterious intriguing.
Just like we haven't seen much like that at the much like the
prologue. We haven't really seen much like
the end of book one for Danny with the blood magic and the egg
hatching, although I think we will I think we're clearly going
to see more of the others. And we are clearly going to see
more rituals and more blood magic.
And if you count say, shireen's burning What magic?
That's one of the most clear examples I think will get.
But there's more to another possible example of blood magic.
When we get back to the genetic ideas, remember the Bloodstone
Emperor? We talked about that briefly,
the amethyst empress, and the great Empire.
The dawn in between the resurrection chapter, that's
chapter 84 Danny. In chapter 10, is the pyre and
the hatching. The dragon chapter 9, as I said
with the fever dream chapter. And that's when she has the
famous or inFAMOUS fever dream of her ancient ancestors.
The Valerian, perhaps the Chester's evolve Larry and
dragonlords, who had their colored eyes and their silver
gold hair and they're telling her to wake the dragon, and do
all these other things that push her to perform the ritual that
could be blood magic. Ancient blood magic that ties
them together. The whatever ritual made them
permanently purple. I'd and silver-haired or close
to that. That's why Danny is dreaming of
them specifically because they are her ancestors specifically.
She looks like them and they're telling her to do something.
That they did or that empowered them.
Having dragons bringing dragons back into the world.
May not be good for everyone. Maybe it is because it's
necessary to save the world. Either way, she's the conduit
for this and it changes her forever.
Other examples, whether whether something that happens, it comes
up, blood magic, it steals a little ironborn angle to this.
You're on. Certainly what he's doing or
planning to do with a bunch of free strapped to the prowess of
ships. That's got a lot of us, quite
morbidly curious, and it could definitely be magical, but could
also just be a way to look magic was like, oh, I got Priest Blood
In The Water. If is it bait or blood matching,
right? Is it blood magic or bow mesh or
is it? Yeah.
Good question.
And any and when jojen dreams of the shores of Winterfell and and
though the water flowing over the walls of Winterfell, is that
flood magic or blunt but that could just be bait, right?
Like, the blood summons Krakens, we're told they're like, it's
Sharks can smell blood to an absurd degree.
Something like 1 1, millionth part and a drop like and smell.
It's a Get Ridiculous. So it's not magical to think
that a kraken could smell blood and Georgia's world.
And that would what he's, that's what he's aiming for.
It could be both, I think it's one of those things ambiguous.
Yes, you know, another thought I have to someone again, different
levels of intent and realization when they do it.
But, you know, it's someone who's willing to make sacrifices
someone who doesn't I'm rallied in the first place.
So when he was want to play on other people's superstitions but
urine fits all those, you know, he could say, if he puts all
these people on his ships and sacrifices them, anything
positive that comes like that. See it worked.
Listen to me, my sacrifices, my special knowledge.
What if it doesn't work, we didn't sacrifice enough premium
accessories were totally annoyed.
You better not mess up, you know?
Yeah, that's yeah. It's certainly that seem that
that's pretty similar to Where I fall on it, I think that it
might be magical but he definitely wants it to look
magical. Whether it is or not the car and
mokoros talk about them, briefly the case, especially mokoro, I
suppose another example of the Curious nature of the magic of
real or which overlaps Fire and Blood and Shadow, which reminds
us again of valyria and also all this just timing, right?
Yeah. I was going to say it also might
just overlap with science. He might just under read the
clouds better. He might also, Sailor and
understand the storms come in, you know, like the boy, this kid
gets to use what he knows is a good prediction, any way to add
to the perception of his power, his knee starts hurting so he
knows it's going to rain. So he builds a fire looks at it
and goes, oh, I can see rain coming in the Flames.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That doesn't mean.
He doesn't also have real magic. He floated the sea for two
weeks, that's my like, there's nothing but magic that can
account for that, I think. So, you're right.
So like yeah, there's a lot. Of this playing off and blurry
distinction between the two blood magic is at the heart of
that because it's maybe even more so than any other form of
magic because of the preponderance of things.
Like blood sacrifice, which are probably just rituals and not
magic but some of them probably are.
I doubt. 100% of them are non magic, you know?
So with his idea, the horn the hell horn mokoros set flat out
says the horn must be claimed with blood which again being
Valyrian sorcery and rooted in Blood and fire.
It all fits pretty well, it's also very vague but it sounds
like, what I mean? You must claim the horn with
blood doesn't, it doesn't matter.
He says, doesn't matter who blows the horn matters, who
claims it matters, who owns it and the guy who blow it, Craig
are no new blood at the kingsmoot.
He had a hawk tattoo, And it bled when he blew and everyone
felt like their ears were burning and yeah, focused sound
more playing with sound and Magic together through the
audio. Magic audio magic.
That's what our Benja near pulls off audio magic guys like bran
the Builder. I mean, our friend brand, not
the Stark territory. The firearm mokoro.
Giving Victorian a firearm in that very peculiar very creepy
ritual. Blood magic Fire magic.
Both is another one. Seems like both very uniquely
presented to us. Also.
Yeah, we got with the way the POV shifts briefly.
Now he emerges with a burned hand and blood up to his arm and
then later it seems like his whole arm.
His arm is burned all the way up which is maybe it's creeping up
his arm. He doesn't say that.
You think he would maybe take note of that, but it feels like
from descriptions that it's growing.
But the burned aspect is, is creeping up his arm, which would
make sense, fire consumes Barracks saying, fire consumes
everything entirely, and he's like, well, slowly, but surely
you're being consumed. Maybe he's becoming like what
mokoro is, but without the Priestly training.
So, in Universe wise, I wonder how people view it as they see
that as well. I see it as real magic, for
sure. They're not fooled by that.
There's no way to describe. This is just a trick.
Now, one thing that happens in that moment with the weather
magic is it's a little confusing.
He emerges from that from his cabin, and is like, cut the
maesters throw him overboard, and then he says, we'll have
great wins, but he says that the priest saw that in this Flames,
not to cutting the guys throat will cause this.
He's just like I'm done with this Meister.
So kill him and throw him overboard.
And because the major failed to heal his hand, over over these
months, and months, and months. And mokoro just did it just like
that and so he's like, what do I need?
This guy for healed. He'll yeah healed.
Yeah. View.
Is that he's a kilt. It's better than healed, it's
stronger than it was surely. There's no side effects here.
It's just it's just pure profit. The coral also used.
He said he wanted a silver knife, but iron would be fine.
And also, there was singing and laughing and screaming from
outside the door. Some of the similar elements.
If there were Shadows dancing, we couldn't see it because it
wasn't a tent. It was a cabin.
So there would be no way to see that but yeah, it's a serious
overlap there, huh? Pretty creepy stuff.
He also by the way, Victorian also, mistrust at the major in
the first place because measure was given to him by your on even
though you're on, just took the master from one of the castles
at that they had taken it wasn't someone that connected to your
own anyway. Meanwhile the Dusky woman is
connected to your on in some way and he just kept her but that's
just that's more of a Victorian Centric topic than a blood
match. And yeah so I certainly would
look to the ironborn and mokoro Especially because they're
getting more and more connected to Danny as a source of future
blood magic related subplots or plots that have blood magic
wrapped up in them. Mokoro may occurred Danny to do
things. Kind of like Stannis is being
encouraged by Melisandre. These things could definitely
Verge or virgin to blood magic territory.
If not head straight down that path headlong I think maybe
someone like Tyrion would be the one.
Be like, hmm. Are we sure we want to do this,
even though he's pretty cynical? I don't know if he wants to get
involved in blood magic. Might be the kind of thing that
someone like barristan becomes extremely uncomfortable with.
There's a lot of things that when I see what Danny's future
Court will look like in the people that will be surrounding
her. I see conflicts between some of
those individuals. And this is potentially one of
those conflicts. Like you have blood magic
practitioners in your inner circle, Danny that looks
terrible to westerosi who sure Co whores fine with blood magic.
Valeriya was fine with blood magic but your own Dothraki hate
it. Who are on your side and
westerosi hate it. They think it's, you know, the
seven think it's Blasphemous or whatever word they would use.
So as accepted as it may be, in other places is devil not
accepted in the culture. You're trying to be a part of
and the other culture you're going to try to be a part of
from Danny's perspective, so that could be a real problem.
One of many things that doesn't look good.
On Danny's resume, 2's Taurasi in terms of cultural background
and what she's bringing to the table.
Whoo! Blood types like about blood
types in the real world, we have, you know, ABO negative
positive. All That Type O Negative being
my favorite because it's a band and they're cool, knowledge of
that kind of like the equivalent of blood magic and the real
world genetic manipulation gene. Splicing is probably even closer
to the equivalent of blood magic in the real world.
Except that and right up there with people being really creeped
out by it. Like, people are very creeped
out by some elements of genetic modification modification is
where people really sometimes draw.
The line Gene editing. People seem to be a lot more.
Okay. With anyway, I feel like, for
the most part, there's not a lot of sacrifice involved and that's
true. The real world is Schweddy magic
examples, which I think is a distinguishing factor.
I think, I think what people say is being sacrificed is like,
decency or health, like you do. say they're glad this is going
to lead to bad Health outcomes like whether that's true or not,
it's a belief people have. That's the point, like,
examining the blood magic, whether it's really blood magic,
or whether it's just a belief people, react to it, whether in
ways that they think it's real and same thing here, like they
believe these stories about Gene editing in the real world that
may or may not be true. You know, I guess another point
to make about it, it's something I thought maybe distinguishes
blood magic from other magic to is, it's sort of like cheating
or a shortcut. Something, it may be regular.
You could do over more time with more resources, to poor regular
people without magic at all. Could do over more time with
more, but if you're short on time, Stannis has to win this
battle. Now, you can't wait to raise an
Army's Renly already on numbers them.
Well, add magic, Shadow binding, whatever, is it's a cheat.
He's cutting Corners to make something happen more quickly,
and he's sacrificing something important.
Yeah, get the result quicker or more powerful.
Degree of it or etcetera, etcetera.
Right on, let's return to Melisandre the leeches to
discuss Kings blood and let's take Nina's lead on this one.
She says, I have a hard time believing the Kings blood works
as simply as Melisandre. Seems to suggest that simply due
to the nature of political power, in this universe, and the
nature of genetics and Bloodlines kings are made, as
much as kings are born. This is largely a hereditary
Monarch or coal, mine article and aristocratic system.
A dynasties can and do change through Extinction or Rebellion
or outright usurpation. Anyone could call himself a
king, So when kings blood supposedly, when does it start
like what makes you in the crown sits touches your head, your
blood changes is it a metaphysical thing we're not
supposed to look at it in terms of strict reality.
This is the moment you call yourself a king.
Are you? Is it?
Because you really do have Kings, like, your
great-great-great-great great-great-great-great.
Great-great-grandfather was a king you have Kings but like
where you draw the line? When Robert Mugabe Kings blood?
Yeah. Yeah.
Would Geoffrey's Joffrey like he was, he was a king but he's not
Roberts ascendant. Like yeah it is if it's just
literally anyone descended from a king then there's just
billions of billions. There's hundreds of thousands of
Kings. Bloods running around like
almost every baby. It's like, maybe it's like Santa
Claus magic. Depends on how many people
believe it and more people believe their King, the more
powerful. The politics Tinkerbell magic?
Yes, that's right. All right.
We're on to something. I think we figured it out.
Alright. Episodes over Crack the Code,
blood magic song, boom, change the title, this one blood magic,
so it's like one of those cold cases.
We're now A True Crime podcast blood magic solves No one sets,
this example better than rent, a furlong Waters, the abhorrent
Jailer that Jamie has the encounter with when trying to
track down, how Terry an escape, the guy who says calls himself,
a tad of a lad, the claims descent from John Waters is like
yes, I have Royal Blood and it's a great scene because let's
Jamie be sarcastic in his head and tells all these jokes.
And also, it's just funny to think about this as kings.
Blood is the my favorite example, for shutting down the
notion of Kings blood, Nina. I teamed up on that one there.
I think pretty well. Remember the funny humorous
example. I'm just the straight-up.
How could it possibly work this way?
If you know the way she explained?
I don't need to repeat it but still have the question.
Sure. If we had some animals and we
decided if we declared one of them is the king animal with
their blood. Be worth more like a king snake
or King. Yeah.
If I like magic, I declared can't jaqen our cat.
To be the king of our household and I said all the other cats
are going to Jake and like he's a kid, I would have doing fun
things. I'm gonna treat him with the
trappings of power. Does it count or does it only
count of my cats? See him as he gets the Tropics
of poorer? I think it counts to the degree
that people believe it. I believe it.
If you believe it, then the more belief, the more Power in the
Blood. Yeah, the more time that passes,
the more followers you need to get more cats.
I say that every day, Moving forward a little bit to the
Kings blood ritual, like waking dragons from Stone Melisandre
claims that you need the king's blood to wake, the dragon from
Stone. And some of the other examples
from history of people trying to do that.
And some that didn't make the book.
Like the one I mentioned recently that needed, rude Maya,
Drew my attention to, we were chatting about the one of
meili's blackfyre supposedly burning his own four-year-old
son on the Flames to hatch dragon eggs.
Now that's Not Cannon because George took that out of A Dance
with Dragons, but he may have taken it out because it's didn't
fit, not because it's not necessarily true, so it might be
semi Cannon. Anyway, he certainly
entertaining. That idea is this blood magic
like the others Fire magic sacrifices.
Probably maybe you could say it's 60% Fire magic for x
amount. We don't need to bring it down
to percentages but It's pretty anything with like this kind of
sacrifice to generate a Rizal multiple magic powering it.
Yeah, I think there's an element of blood magic in there and Mary
Masters is the blood alone is not enough.
You need the right words or songs or both and well in the
case of Danny Reagan Dragons Were stoned.
They were like no words at all. She just knew there were
thoughts but there was also the real sacrifice should see what
she was willing to do, which Nina He has a great take on, but
Shawn, you said, you have something to say, first
suggested that might be part of being a miracle.
She thought it was true sacrifice.
Oh that's, you know. Okay, yeah, or that memorized or
isn't being totally honest record, right?
That's always possible. We have two very strong to keep
that idea of mine. Is there whatever Mary manager
says, the Danny is going on. There's Radha reasons for her to
be not telling the whole truth because I personally believe
that the dragon hatching work because Daenerys was willing to
give herself as a sacrifice that she was personally willing to
stand her ground In the Heat of the fire.
And ultimately, Step into the fire storm.
I don't think it's coincidental that the key phrase repeated for
Mary Daenerys and from any respect to marry only death can
pay for life, stands stone or stands.
I'll Stand Stone stands alone in the passage where she Hatches
the dragons, nor the third hatching happened.
Only after Daenerys gave herself over to the fire, she didn't
die. But she stood before.
And ultimately offered herself to a fire, that should have
killed her. Like, she couldn't have expected
to live under normal circumstances, only perhaps the
voices in her head, Maybe. Maybe led her to believe
otherwise but it's not really written that way.
She just does it right. So that feels fitting Nina says,
for a series were great magic. Always comes with a great
personal cost that she was willing to dive fact that she
didn't is perhaps the miracle more so than anything else.
Even more, even more miraculous than the dragons being hatched.
Either way, that is the is the crucial difference in say what
Stannis is willing to do. Perhaps least this point or
realize other people are willing to do is that they're actually
willing to themselves be in the sacrifice.
And that factors into our concept of belief.
She didn't sacrifice herself. She didn't technically
sacrificed her, but she was willing to.
And if her intent was required, if spells require pure intent to
work that she had that whereas almost anyone else maybe
wouldn't because they aren't willing to give themselves up.
She also might not have fully sacrificed her life, but she
still made a sacrifice. I was even thinking when you're
saying, no, we don't necessarily need to break down a percentage.
Exactly. But Say that it was 60% Fire
magic 30%. Blood magic 10% hair magic.
A magic. That's right.
You did murder. Silver Targaryen are off like
mmmm. You need that this says a lot
about blood magic itself to in that.
As awful as is portrayed as shunned as it is, it won't and
arguably shouldn't be entirely shunned.
If it has Humanity, saving upside, if it can save the world
then. Can't entirely write it off.
Especially if that threat. Is there like every well, What's
It Gonna Save the World from is the kind of threat that could
never realistically happen? Well, in this case, the threat
is realistically happening, Anita says, like, I feel like,
with any form of sacrifice in this universe, the consistent
message has been that. It has to be yourself.
Can't sacrifice other people to work.
The hero isn't the guy willing to murder his wife or child to
get a magic sword. It's the person who will stand
up for everyone. No matter the odds and fight for
what's right? Why does Eric, get a true sword
of light bringer in Santa's dozen Barrack really was willing
to die. He was really willing to die to
give his life where he did it. I mean actually passed his life
force on when it came. He didn't hem and haw question
it. He just did it and he was
constantly putting himself at risk for others.
That's real sacrifice Daenerys. Got the dragons for her exact
willingness to sacrifice that was her quote unquote reward
from the gods or from the fates, or from Destiny, or man, from
George r.r., Martin, What about regular folks?
Oh yeah, it was Mary's, blood special.
I keep coming back to this. I have no way to answer that,
but it feels like she was permanently Changed by a long
career of using magic, and whatever that does to you,
especially if the valyrians made it, a genetic thing is, we've
touched on, in this episode, Supposedly he didn't L lost him,
she are a sea star and maybe some others have bathed in blood
just like, wow melisandre's done this with glamour, she just uses
illusion to do that. Say the same thing about me.
Yeah, red hair. The prevailing theory is that
it's red hair dye that you can see and think it's blood.
I literally do go through this when I die my hair, every few
months, I found my hair red and I go take a shower and I look at
my stats of blood running down. And I'm Like wow, I really I get
it. So yeah, I can relate this
really explains to know Lawson who had shiny red hair red hair
though. So that doesn't really explain
why she had Targaryen looking hair.
Our Valerian hair same difference in this case.
So it was something else. Used here but probably not.
Royal Blood. Like, where are they getting?
Royal Blood for these rituals? You can't just find that
anywhere. What we're supposed to eat old
is kind of a fairytale style reference is that Danelle was
rumored to send giant bats out to kidnap children.
That's probably an exaggeration. But if you were to imagine to
look, what does that ritual sound?
Like I said, of strength of the horse, going to the rider its
skin of the child. Go into the woman.
Yeah. What is the child going to the
hair? Yes.
Yeah. So I thought I heard her say
that Echoes here and harrenhal though it's kind of hard to hear
exactly what was being said. Yeah, the way I just want to say
the idea of a giant bats going to kidnap children.
It probably is exaggerated their regular size bed.
Yeah, giant bats. Yeah.
Yes. It's a little small batch will
suffice for children. So yeah.
If you can do that with regular folk.
I mean, we're not even sure it's happening.
These are rumors but then L lost and she liked her house the
Lost. Were put down and expunged,
basically because she turned to Black Magic or the Black Arts or
would have. You is kind of put vaguely but
she may be really did do blood magic or maybe that was all
rumor. The problem with with with
pinning it on entirely on rumor. Is that you would think that if
someone was voicing a rumor about the now Austin in order to
get her taken away from harrenhal, they would do it.
So they could have here at all but harrenhal just sat empty or
was given to that too. We're not.
So empty was given to the Wentz who were like, nobody's they
couldn't have been them. I don't think they were too
small scale to have a re-engineered this as much,
because the rumor about her was something that it perpetuated
for, like over a decade. Like she had stories, were told
about her during the third, blackfyre rebellion in before
that. And she wasn't put down for lack
of a better word. And so, like the year 230 231,
she's like 12 years later. That's when the winds finally
caught them. Maybe they came and red-handed
came and went. Yeah, yes, no.
It's the power of animals. We talked about the strength of
the horse, going to the rider. It seemed like a gay from the
brain of the horse to brain of the Beast.
Go into the call walking around like a horse donkey braying
donkey brayed. Yes, he did not have a
certificate but he's pretty donkey braying there.
What about Sammy in the bowl. There's Sammy the bull gravano,
the mobster, but there's Sam tarly.
Lee who his dad hired, warlocks, the made him bathe in Bulls
blood, to make him Brave strength of the bull, go into
the tarly. You know, it's the worst, both
things that he could have bathed in a just can't stop with this
Bowls two balls. Perhaps there's more to come
here. I mean we haven't seen the we
haven't seen the extent of the strength of the elephant.
Go into the Tyrion into the dwarf story about.
Randall, taller is perplexing to me.
It seems weird. That that's something he would
do. Yeah.
That like, you can be kind of a conservative, man, but still
have a lot of suspicions and hold stock and some real flurry
there. I don't know.
It's like this is like stayed or someone who wouldn't be down
with magical practices, but he's willing to put it all aside for
his own game, you know? I don't know, I think it's very
telling about About Randall that he would be willing to entertain
warlocks. And it's part of was perplexing
to me, is it? I don't feel like if this he's I
would say is a major Lord. I don't know.
Maybe that's pretty major. Yeah, I mean he and his son s
tired warlocks for this Blood Magic Ritual.
Like some other people had to know about this right now.
Are there any rumors stirring about him?
What would have happened? Yeah, I mean I want to know
what's up with this guy? Maybe not him because they're
saying this blood magic. Yeah.
What did his wife think? Yeah, she was like, no, don't do
that. Sam just said, Ellen of the
castle is interesting, but I would guess that there was some
people are like, oh, this guy can be taken in as a fool, how
to scam him. And some people who are like, oh
he's really dedicated and then they see him, send his son to
the wall and they're like, oh yeah, he was real dedicated.
He was, you know, but then any thought of scamming him ended
because he had those Warlocks scourged for their failure.
Is not someone that I can just scam.
Yeah, you're right. Maybe he heard the whisper.
Maybe he heard people. Like he just got scammed.
I like to call my here for terra.
Terra incognita, says, the only ethical blood magic is my plus
back and all that if I do it. Yeah Randall.
Terry does seem like the kind of guy that would be like it's only
I don't think Randall would have really felt betrayed.
Up our felt torn of up about his entertaining of the warlocks,
right? Like, I don't think Randall felt
was wracked with guilt over like, oh, I'm betraying the
faith of the seven, really, you know, know he was just like, oh,
this is this might work. He's like, I got to be loyal to
my house. This is what's necessary to get
a house going. I can't pass this.
Can't pass the seat to Mize week son and we'll lose it all, you
know. Yeah I do feel like he would be
suspicious if he found out some of the Lord did that though.
Blood magic on his son Willis. He'd be talking to the king to
say, hey, I don't think Mace Tyrell should be word,
Paramount. Anyone who would do anything, it
would be a way to rise. Yeah.
Ledge issue for power gain rather than like the truth or an
ethical thing to be like, yeah. This is just an I could use.
Yeah, it's all about. Yeah, Power games.
Not true. It's not Justice.
What can I get out of this brandalynn price says, hey, it
worked Sam. The Slayer he is.
Randall, just wasn't patient enough rotation.
Yeah. And he finally hooked up with a
girl to up there to remember, he said, he's like, my father would
actually be proud that I fathered a son.
Who's like? Yeah, all because of the
warlocks, of course, as well as get a bad rap and tell you.
Yeah. Like what if a dragon is killed,
what if is a dragon is sacrificed or strength of the
crack tentacles of the crack and go into the Greyjoy?
Yeah, if the draganovic king, exactly, there's so many things,
like the options here are Kings Dragon Blood, like, what else is
your on gonna try? Like, what other options is he
got Nila? What is he else's?
You got up that Eldritch sleeve of his that Bloody sleeve.
What's he hiding behind that eye patch?
Hmm, some more blood magic I think and what more will brand
discover up north like what more will he discover about the
history and lore and the past the greens.
Here's that involves some blood soaked.
Topics or to which we might if not calling them blood magic, we
might relate to them use it as a another point of connection
between the various types of magic and say look here's
another similarity between the magic system systems in air
quotes here because I don't think George is defined at that
way. This is our effort to Define it
a little bit, but as I said before, we won't go too far and
over categorizing because that's not really.
The point, the point is to get closer to it.
We can't get all the way there. So why set that expectation?
Ation the old powers are rising, as we know.
Well that surely includes Blood match.
Informs we have yet to imagine. So just cast your imagination
forward. If you have any other ideas or
characters, you think might be involved in blood mr.
You could see their plot lines veering into that.
Let us know. In addition to the places we've
mentioned surely, there's blood magic and other parts of the
world, like the elemental forms of magical sourcing, it seems
somewhat ubiquitous, if you can. Discover Magic Fire magic if in
the long-gone days of early humanity and perhaps whatever
came before Humanity, seems like it would have come up.
People would have figured out but blood magic was a thing.
The same way, they figured those other ones out.
However that was whatever LED them to these truths these
secrets in the first place. Well, they would have probably
kept walking down those paths released.
Some people would have, some would have gotten off the path
when they saw how dark it was and where it was leading.
Others might have tried to wield that sword with no.
Built for good like to use for fertility and for justice.
But for the most part it looks like it's been used for Evil
things and things that are banned for a good reason.
The cost is perhaps not worth the results.
Nine times out of ten, if not more ET seems like a place,
there would be some blood magic is a very sorceress place.
Maybe if we ever get aut show, we'll get into that.
A kingdom of Sorrow nor is a place gone now, but it was
pretty magical and it's time there was probably some blood
magic there. Maybe it was restricted or
encourage, we don't know. I don't, I don't believe we
touched on blood match. Specifically when we did our
Tsar nor episode, but we Did touch on how sorceress to place
was and how ancient some of the Magic's involved there were.
So it makes sense fits in with those other Elemental Magics in
that sense. Tom Tarr, Talia says Rago is
dead for years, D plus d equals, T confirm yet the old
time-traveling fetus. We got there.
For anyone who doesn't know what that is.
That's Drogo plus Danny equals curious and I think Tom knew
well, that the only way I was going to grab that comment was
if he did a super Chad, you gotta pay for us to say that one
over there in all of our other Friends who were working on
focalize? Hmm.
Every Tuesday at 7:00 eastern. They have their streams.
Yeah. Where they don't talk about
time-traveling fetuses, but, about folklore.
And if there was a folklore angle, that included
time-traveling fetuses, though they would talk about, okay,
well, they sure what may be there is, there probably is some
more about time-traveling pieces, somewhere in some
culture. I guess there is now in our
culture. You're right.
I don't know. Maybe I should better learn the
exact definition of folklore. I don't know.
I just watch the fuck why stream was one Tuesday then you'll
learn be loose. And supercharged says, thank you
guys for what you do and for helping me become more educated
and delve deeper into this. Lure will be joining the
Patriots for. Oh, well, thank you Bilu is in
the chat asking questions about the best way to start our
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Rita's, depending on if they wanted the main series or if
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about about, you know what, how to recommend it to someone else
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We have a new feature that is Shay has been working on We
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Like just a podcast, scroll, you just scroll through our list of
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It is not the most efficient way to see what we have to offer to
Now's our episodes. There's no like categorization
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Some have most shows have this problem lesser because, well,
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What a resource a search of Ice and Fire is yeah and fire kind
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Right. Yeah, so it's and I imagine
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Oh yeah I'm or yes, very well. Get you guys thinking about one
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This is something that'll be coming long time.
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Let's complete our wrap-up today.
Trivia question for different women have used the phrase, only
death May pay for Life. Those four women are Melisandre
Solis. Mary Mass door and Daenerys.
Only one male does. Who is it jock?
I might miss talking to God. Who are you, where you going to?
Who's your guest? This Keri qyburn.
Oh God. But with minimal confidence you
people guessed him and not cover and guess jaken.
You notice I said male not man because he's a shapeshifter,
he's probably a man but anytime you have a shape-shifter, you
can be entirely sure of their actual gender.
Some people sad or some people gasp shaking but then on the
someone else was like, well I don't know if we could say Jake
because he's a faceless man. So we Really know if he's a man
etcetera. Yeah, he said it, he was a male
when he was a male when you say yes, anyway, and he said in the
context was that he saved, our area, saved him, and roared, and
biter from burning to death. And so he says, well, I owe you
three lives. Red.
God must have his do. We're still three lives from
real or whedon's, a real, or he's at the red God, same thing.
Got to get him back, only death must pay for life.
So that's a different take on. Only death must pay for life.
That's like the Kids will have their do, it's different than a
ritual or, you know, you kill someone in a meeting, someone
else comes back to life. This is more metaphysical.
Like the gods are not going to forget about this debt.
You owe them differently. Different different approach but
still result is still kind of hinges around orbits around a
higher Powers acceptance of what's happening or permission
again. Could just be the difference in
how a magician from one land interpreted differently than a
priest from another land. It's so fundamental power.
Our is it work that their ritual or their understanding of it
might be different but it's still the same thing.
Another reason to sign up for our patreon is to join the
voting processes that happen frequently.
Next week we're going back to characters.
We had fun with Toros, we're gonna do a historical character
this time the pole was Hartman strong aemon, the dragonknight
Margaery Tyrell and Elia Martell the winner was aemon.
The dragonknight are only ever Targaryen Kings guard.
One of the greatest warriors who ever lived in Westeros great.
Story, lots of parallels to Jamie and Lancelot in the real
world, real world stories. Anyway, so those characters will
get other chances to get an episode made about them.
And if you want to see that happen, well, sign up for
patreon and give them a vote. When that rolls around.
In this episode, we mentioned a lot of our other episodes, you
can use a shade as sorter to find them or just scroll and
find them yourself. Valyrian steel episode would be
lost. Learn steel with Thomas, Pappas
are septon Barth episode. Of course, the a Shia episode,
The Great Empire of the Dawn episode which was sort of
Companions of each other and I recommend the a shy one first
and then the great a lead on Valerie Rita's chapters,
especially the Danny ones, those in particular are available
separately from the rest of Valley Rita's so you can check
those out. That's another patreon /.
Spotify subscriber perk are Valerie Rita's episodes on
valyria are very relevant. Our patrons only upside down
could go sews house manually, part Where we talk about some of
the ancient blood magic tangential related stuff, that
happened in the ancient North. And of course, I mentioned our
interview with George r.r. Martin.
There isn't that much in there about blood magic, but if you
wanted to hear the exact wording of what he said, and when he
brought about brought up blood magic and incest and want to
check that out. Plus it's just a really good
interview, George is George, and we got an hour almost an hour
and half of him and it was a great times and worth say that
you're trying to sort through all of our episodes and you
don't have access to that episode database yet, or
whatever. There's two options.
For you that I think are useful to trying to get through
episodes one is our website, there is a search bar, it is
infallible, but it is a help. There is that we have a Valor
Rita, you know, set of pages that go through the timestamps
to each chapter on the website as well.
And on our YouTube channel, there's playlist there we can't
do playlists on easily for the podcast side, but we can do
YouTube playlists and you could just, you know, kind of use that
if you were if you want to listen to the podcast version,
you could still go to like our man.
Like playlist on YouTube and be like, oh, here's the list of all
the Magic episodes. Let me go find them on podcast,
but we're trying to find a better long-term solution for
this. Would fit very squarely into our
religion Magic series, we don't calling it religion and Magic
Club magic. Yeah.
Clearly a part of that playlist and so, yeah, you could, then
look at all that whole anyways. So yeah, YouTube does have
playlist for you to look. There is kind of a fun thing to
see how we categorize things. I.
Yeah, and certainly, y'all are welcome to suggest new playlist
ideas. We just whatever works.
This was House history and all the other stuff.
So yeah, whatever we can do we're happy to expand on.
Thank you to, those of you came live.
We really appreciate your presence, a lot of really good
comments and questions. The participation was
particularly strong today. That is blood-magic, got people
feeling it, we're in the mood for for this topic, I think.
Yeah, it's job for voting, it did win the pole, it was in it
won pretty handily, even though, something even though it was an
entirely Supernatural topics pull, this one was beat out some
other ones like the undead and dream the passing down of
aegon's dream. And I forget what the other and
was so dire wolves. Yeah, that was the only one.
So those topics as well will have another shot at the Apple.
Another bite at the Apple chance to get made into full episodes.
So let me also thank Nina for her great notes.
Lot of great takes on the conception of blood magic and
how it plays a role in the story and keeping us grounded on some
things. But also keeping the magic
included where it belongs. Thanks as well.
To Joey Townsend. Jesse Koval bran the Builder for
music and video assistance, music production video
production. Y'all have best, Michael are
found as well. Can't forget him, he made.
Made these Maps you see behind us.
You made our original video intro and he just finished
another movie, a 35 minute film. What, what is it called, again?
Something-something for like Wayward Cristo, yeah, but girls
Miss st. Something say Lucy's and Lucy's
home for Wayward girls? Lycanthrope equates a grave
without. Yeah, title is tricky.
These home for girls Raised by Wolves.
Yes, there it is. There it is.
It's based on a short story by care.
I saw an American author and it's a really funny really.
It has really good like, sound mixing and sound effects.
Good acting from the kids involved Cycles in it.
Michael is in it. It's got like I mean it was so
moving and parts like I, yeah, I don't know.
I would, I thought it was very good in Russia on Monday.
I could talk to me to say because like, it was it's in
German with like English captions.
So I can't say if the acting was good or if I just can't tell bad
acting in German seem good. Yeah, I guess all like Michael
students and stuff. Like they were good like that
for regularly forgot that they were not werewolf.
Girls. Good.
I was so impressed that kitty Shawn's got.
Oh yeah. Sweet boy.
It's like part of his shirt is your shirt has eyes.
Sean. Anyway.
So thanks everyone. You know what to do?
We will see you next week for Prince aemon.
The dragonknight and soul, then bail.
Are we beat us?