Hello. My fellow historians a simple
pair of sentences from Young Griff in the Lost.
Lord chapter will help get us started today.
Flowers is a bastard named your from the reach and that explains
it. We'd like to thank you for
coming today. We appreciate, just kidding.
He's speaking of sir. Franklin flowers, who has a
profile in this episode, but the entire egg on / young Griff plot
is directly and Dorothy, matically related to the
blackfyre stories, which is a story about bastards and the
central supporters of the black fire cause was the reach.
Even though Daemon blackfyre himself was not from the reach.
A lot of his key supporters were such as Fireball.
And though Franklin, and though rather Jon Snow is not a
flowers, bastardy is a central aspect for the plot of The most
important characters mean John is one of the most important
characters and so this is true even if it turns out, he's
technically not a bastard at all.
Like if he turns out to be John Targaryen or whatever he goes by
later, whatever his name actually is, even even if it
turns out to be Jon Snow regardless, he's been treated
like a bastard and that's what really matters to us here.
As much as we're honing in. On people whose name is flowers.
Were really about the treatment of bastards.
Get ethically, reach bastards and And specific figures from
the reach, you know, I think that gives a good counter point
to even the story will get into later of Glendon flowers,
Glendon ball. Someone who claims to not be a
bastard, but he still treated like a bastard.
So it doesn't matter whether he is or not.
He is room. That's a good point.
Yeah, you're right. Even if there's a lot of cases
like that where the treatment comes with the title even if the
title is observed and we all know that I don't deserve to
anyway. The way badass treated in
Westeros is unfair regardless of their names.
One thing interesting to hear, it's a large subject.
I mean, given the sheer number of characters whose parents were
unmarried and given how ancient the stigma of bastard, he has
been around. It started a long time ago as a
story expands we can see the bastards are given different
names. So you start with Jon Snow, you
see his treatment right away? I mean, it's prominent right
away. John gets treated and how he's
separated from the rest of the family.
I mean, right away and the, the Brand's first chapter literally,
like I'm not a stark, you know, the dire wolves.
And then the stuff with Catelyn, it just right away.
You see what I'm saying? Even though north and south are
different culturally speaking. The treatment of bastards is not
that different and they're treated roughly North, or South,
right? So, it's also personal subject
because I mean seeing children in the same family, treated in
equitably, it's a form of unfair treatment that you can feel
personally because it doesn't matter whether this is fiction
or nonfiction. It's upsetting to see a child
mistreated by an adult in any setting.
And this is also saying, we see right away though, it's not
necessarily clear, why it matters so much and so later,
but right away, we see Catelyn, being cruel to Jon Snow after
Brands fall. And while I'm one of those who
criticized for her for that, she certainly didn't create the
rules. It's not her fault that the
rules that the laws that the culture is so against bastards
in the first place. And the reason they are is
because they can claim Titles her son's titles.
Now, to be fair, of course, John didn't create those rules
either. He's even less responsible for
them than Catelyn is, but they apply to him all the same.
She's not blaming him so much. It's a system and taking it out,
on him a little bit. And that gets to the heart of
the matter or the Heart Tree Of The Matter.
Despite very different gods presiding over weddings and vows
in the north versus the South inheritance laws are pretty much
the same. If not identical, North and
sound, which gets to the heart of the matter for Catelyn, she
as she expressed us to Rob via the example of Daemon blackfyre,
you might be able to trust John FairPoint.
He pushes back when she says, can you trust John?
He's like a horse. I can trust John, but she says,
can your children trust his children and what about their
grandchildren? Now, Rob can't argue with that.
It's a hard time, he can't really just miss that one out of
hand because for one thing it takes the blame off a John and
blames the system, which we just did.
And that's the correct position. At least a correct position in
my opinion. And from where we're sitting,
it's pretty easy to criticize. As westerosi inheritance laws to
which is the root of all this as well.
And because this is topic is so large.
Well, we're dividing it as we often do by region, but the most
populous of the kingdoms and will stay mostly character
focused also as we so often. Do twist though as part of
delving into characters who bear the surname flowers, we will
also be examining characters who were never explicitly called
flowers, but we're very likely or clearly bastards born in the
reach with one or more parents from the reach.
Though, they are not examples from the reach we need to look
no further than say, Joffrey myrcella and tommen, who are
children that are clearly bastards yet, don't actually
have a bastard named. No one actually calls them,
myrcella Hill or Tom and Hill, which would be the right
bastard. Name for them.
But it's not as if we don't have example from the reach to.
And in fact, let's start here with a veritable bombshell, of
example, bastardy bombshell targeted at those prideful,
Nobles of the reach in a manner, very unique to them, It's almost
funny when you pinpoint the nature, their origin, given just
how proud they are there. Birds were Olenna telling Sansa
how, you know, the Florence have a better claim to highgarden and
we do or and she's saying we even though she's married into
the tyrells, she's a red wine by birth.
Anyway, they all Trace their ancestry to Garth greenhand.
Right? We all know that, by this point,
they clamor and squabble over who's the closest related to
Garth greenhand. Even though this is thousands of
years in the past indeterminate, it would never be possible to
determine this. This, but keep in mind Garth had
dozens, if not hundreds of children with dozens, if not
hundreds of women, how many of those women was, he married to
one a few and did they accept, polygamous marriage?
I mean, all the famous houses of the reach for founded by
bastards. They're all bastard houses and
we think about it, like they all had to start that way.
They don't want us, reminding them that don't.
Don't let them hear me say that. But that's how they all started,
right? Pretty much.
I mean there may be one or two exceptions, but in a sense
they're all bastards. Which we like to deconstruct the
idea of battery in the first place because it is a little, it
is a little silly, but there's something to it.
You know, in the room when you're living with inheritance
laws, that exist, the way they do in Westeros, you can't just
ignore that either can you? So we won't be spending all our
time. Delving into ancient questions
of parentage. Although that is fun to talk
about the old stuff. Will mostly be looking at more
recent And characters because that's what we have more recent
what we have more on. But we'll also be looking
forward because several of bastards under the microscope
today are still alive and kicking still kicking.
And we're still picking these flowers today, all that, and
more on this episode of history of Westeros podcast.
Hello and welcome my friends. You may notice, we have no Sean
today. I'm not wearing headphones.
There's no other screen next to me, a Shay's here, of course,
couldn't do this without her, but John's off this week, so
we'll take the bastard squad on without him, but we had a lot of
help from Nina and she was particularly helpful because she
knows sigils so well, way better than I do.
And one of the things we're we do with sigils.
Here is think about how bastards often It reversed the colors of
their native house to show their bastard status.
For example, the example we gave already of the Blackfriars is a
famous one day, just reverse the Targaryen colors, instead of
red. Dragon on black, they got a
black dragon on red. So, we looked around for other
houses in the reach and tried to imagine what an inverted Sigil
of theirs look like, and that helps us in a few places, maybe
guess or, at least narrow down where some of these characters
came from because it gobble em they have the flower surname.
We don't actually know which house they're from, but their
colors might give us a clue. There's other techniques we use
to figure out a few of these, but most of them we just know.
So shout out to Nina, good Queen Alia, Bhatt tumblr.com.
And her latest post is actually comes to us from our Our friend
Stephen at well, he was asked about Henry, the eighth, a
painting, the family of King, Henry the 8th, and why does it
have Jane Seymour rather than Catherine Parr in it?
And he deferred the question to Nina because she knows she's so
knowledgeable about that. So if that interests you then
check out good clean Ali, got tumblr.com for the full answer.
All right, this episode was voted on by patrons.
They chose bastard squad over for other topics.
I expanded it to five topics this time.
That's right, that's right. Next week is trial by Theory,
which you might say, wait, didn't we do that already know?
We didn't we had to postpone it. I got a little sick, but good
news on. That is, you'll have time to
send in more theories if you want to.
Yeah. And that episode will be a
giveaway episode. We're going to give away some
shirts and whatnot history. Westeros sure.
It's not just random shirts. People who submitted theories
whether you submit them live via patreon or email or wherever I
have a big document and I'm going to randomize it.
So anyone is in the running even if we don't actually list off
your theory and the episode, so get those in and the week after
that, we have a great guest. We have dr.
Kavita coming back. Yeah, we do.
Well, the topics will be voted on by y'all on patreon.
So when you vote keep in mind that it will have dr.
Kavita on for that one that's We already took a vote for March
12th. We're going to bump that 12
March 19th, so that'll be a battle episode.
Looks like it's gonna be the battle of the Trident and on
March 26th, we're going to have Nina back as a guest, talk about
Dale or the blessed's will do another Targaryen King.
We talked about bail or a bit with the Amon topics recently.
So, lots to come, let's get to this one.
Now at the end of the episode will suggest some other when you
can listen to to stay immersed and will give the answer to this
trivia question, which is, who is the last character with a
westerosi Bastard name to appear on Page, in a dance of dragons.
Are you counting the appendices knockout in the appendices?
And kind of has to be a chapter and I'm not counting someone who
is a bastard but doesn't have a bastard named.
For example, virus is in the Kevin epilogue and he might be a
bastard, but I'm not counting him.
No one calls, him bars Waters or virus blackfyre or whatever you
might want to call him and I'm not counting Tom and his awesome
that chapter because he's tommen Baratheon.
Even though, we know, he's a bastard.
I'm talking to someone who actually has one of those
surnames. Who's the last one to appear?
Yeah, answer at the end. Quite a few individuals who are
bastards but don't have a surname or something of a
nickname that serves to conceal their Heritage and other such
quirks. Not all bastards from the reach
or clearly and cleanly referred to as flowers.
In other words, this reflects the nature of a system that is
both ancient and inconsistent because it's not like there's
some office of bastardy to keep track of all these things around
wide. Although in certain real world
societies, they did kind of keep track of that there were laws
about it. Westeros is actually less.
Less strict than the real world, but we're going to talk about
real world, real bastard. Some other time because this
particular topic of Rage Badgers alone is so large, just on just
in Westeros. And of course, one more time
point on that, in terms of concealing, bastardy lots of
families, conceal, their bastard, or the parentage of
people at their household that are a bastard but they claim
aren't like like little finger. In this case, of course, little
fingers are is doing the opposite and claiming a noble
person is a bastard rather than the other way around.
I feel it makes for a good example because that sort of
thing happens and at the end of this episode we'll have another
example, kind of like that and it's one of the fun ones but
they're all pretty fun. If I say so myself, we had to do
some sort of arbitrary categorization within the
category of bastard Squad flowers.
It's fun to do. It's mostly color based.
Here, will go with black flowers.
First, one of the reasons I framed, the intro, the way I did
wasn't just because of the gotcha moment regarding Garth
greenhand. But because when researching
this episode, I noticed that none of the people named
flowers, Who made it into histories are pre-conquest
Figures. It's not even that long ago,
right? That's only three hundred years
ago. Is clearly a matter of whack of
Records. Obviously, there were bastards
in the reach before aegon's conquest.
And while the name flowers while we're not sure when it became a
tradition, it's really predates. The conquest after all Brandon
snow was a side, torrhen Stark during the conquest and unless
snow Just predates Flowers by a long time.
I kind of doubt that though, what Yeah, Nina and I both agree
with that considered the idea that other Regional bastard
names existed before the conquest.
The examples given here are rivers like Benedict Rivers,
which was the king Benedict, first, Justman or Adam Rivers,
both Kings of the Riverland, you know, good for them and he'll
Point Pleasant Addison Hill. So clearly there were bastard
names in the westerland's and in the riverlands.
So I think it just makes sense that there would be in the
breach good point. Yeah, it does make sense and I
like the idea too of the other Regional Bastard games.
For example, was already groups of that for, do I have a hard
time believing that all bastards in the iron islands are called
Pike? And yeah, like Pike hasn't been
the dominant presently like wasn't even the dominant center
of the islands a thousand years ago.
So why would it be the center of bastard names?
Or you know what? I think the bastard named for
the whores were what make you say it?
Slut, ha. Ha ha.
That's a good one. For example, there's even
examples of that. Now.
For example, there's even examples that now on Griff,
Mark, Adam and Allen were called of Hull, they weren't called
waters, you know, that's an example, probably of islands,
having their own thing going on, because Island culture,
sometimes separate from the mainland, they do things our own
way that would explain some of these other things especially
the ironborn like why would they all have the same Pike name
across all umpteen Islands. Anyway, it probably does.
Doesn't predate Garth greenhand time whenever that actually was
and whatever. Actually he was now becomes a
discussion point for us. Then when did flowers become a
bastard surname? Did that tradition start in the
reach? Was it less important prior to
the coming of the end? Also bastardy counts for little
north of the wall among the free folk but it does count for some
that might be clue though. Still after all remember
craster, that's the thing that set him off being called faster
with the thing that made him reach for his acts and attack.
Back and that was bad idea on his part, but it is the thing
that set him off he. So even people Beyond the Wall
can be upset, can see that as an insult.
Hmm again though inheritance laws also didn't change when the
end dolls came, but if you go back far enough, even law isn't
the right word, tradition might be more accurate and the
farther, you go back the to can be harder to tell apart, Trish,
tradition, and law. And, and even now the two are
intertwined. Nina says, it's important to
emphasize that the end all did not invent hereditary Royal or
lordly dynasties families. Like the gardeners have been in
power ruling his rhetoric Kings for thousands of years before
the first n dolls. Arrived in Westeros.
Any hereditary ruling system. Has to establish a way to
determine who's in and who's out, who's next, who's eligible,
who succeeds? Who has claims, right?
Whenever factors separate that, that had to be determined.
At some point wasn't all determined at once and then set
in stone forever, but the point is Declaring who's legitimate
and who's not kind of makes sense as a way to handle that,
even though it, there's a lot of flaws in that system, you can
see why it would have been the way to go and very, very early
times. Now, to be fair, some families
actually do except they're bastards.
They treat them pretty well just as some do not or maybe more do
not, there's an endless variety of scenarios and possibilities.
Just as there, an endless, variety of types of flowers,
makes them kind of a well-placed metaphor in terms of their name
when their families do. Reject them or even when they
don't they often join organizations frequently.
These are like the life commitment variety type
organizations. If your own family won't have
you will you join another family?
Someone like an organization that treats you like family or
that has aspects to it that are familial or at least something
that you can count on you. Take an oath to join the
kingsguard, the Nights Watch Meister Hood SEPTA's, septon,
silent sisters or just by joining a cause that puts you
True Game of Thrones type situation win or die.
Like committing to one side of a civil war, especially a
particular leader, especially if you're prominent, especially if
everyone's going to know, you're not gonna like, who do you fight
for in that war? You know, No One's Gonna know.
Everyone's gonna know who you fought for when it's, if you're
a prominent Warrior. So, let's start with one of
those black Byron flowers. One place where Westeros gets
itself, all confused is when a bastard is a great warrior.
Why is this confusing? Because Westeros is steams the
Warrior, perhaps most of all among the seven and in the
north, it's not much different even though they don't care much
for the seven. So when I shun bastard, turned
out to be a great warrior. It's like the immovable object.
Cultural stigma meets the irresistible Force, cultural
idea. Love the warrior hate the
bastard. But what about when they're the
same person? Hmm.
Yeah, so Westeros kind of gets itself twist it up when you get
a situation like that and no singular individual embodied,
this confusion more so than Daemon, blackfyre who found
again his greatest support The reach Damon was famously
legitimised, of course so that does change things for him and
but he's not the focus. Anyway, still a lot of people
still considered him a bastard even after the legitimization
just like happens to Ramsey and surely others who have been
legitimized. Other people will not allow them
to forget that who what they once were so legally though
Damon was no longer a bastard. Both his parents were Targaryen
which may be helped with some of the Stigma.
But he did also raise the bar by being such a great warrior.
He may have been inspiring to other bastards.
I mean, if a bastard 10 rise to be king, then these other
bastards that looked up him could rise above whatever their
station was, as well, not to King like he was, but to rise
higher than they were now given the new well arising bastard,
tide floats, all bastard boats, right?
And they might look to it, like, well, maybe this is a permanent
And maybe finally Westeros is going to look at bastards with
Merit rather than birth. Maybe that would have happened
if Damon had one, but of course he didn't, and that may have in
the long run, made it worse because in retrospect came and
looked like a rebel who tore the realm of part to a lot of people
and that's not good in retrospect.
Had he won and ruled reasonably well and things had gone well
after a lot of IFS, Yes. But had he ruled well, or at
least World. Okay.
Yeah. It may have really changed.
How bastards were viewed going forward.
It may have said a permanent change or at least a temporary
long-term change like a hundred years, maybe things would have
just reverted, but it would have changed the view of bastards
quite a lot. I think Nina says in Damon might
have seemed provide these bastards more immediate
opportunity as well. Yeah, that's a good point.
Some of them might have gotten lands and titles.
He might have been promoted there.
Trueborn parents or brothers and sisters may have been set aside
because they fought for Darren. And remember too that the other
thing about Darren was that one of the argument was a, he was a
bastard even though that's almost certainly a lie.
Started by his father aegon the fourth but had Damon one, the
official histories might have said that Darren was a bastard
and that which might have intern not Done.
Such great things for the future of bastards in Westeros as well.
Like, you're promoting one bastard for throwing another
one, under the bus and the same but maybe that's just breaks
things even. But what need is saying is that
a lot of people supported Damon would have gotten rewards lands,
titles, and honors. And a lot of those people were
bastards so they could have started new houses or done other
things to raise the profile of bastards.
But that's a big. What if a big thing that didn't
happen Nino's? This might have been, especially
encouraging for bass has the reach given the Darren had not
only rejected any idea of continual work as of Conquest
against Dorne which meant no spoils to be one because a lot
of people wanted to fight darn because they like to fight and
they didn't like Dorne This was also a method of bringing Dorn
into the realm right, man. That's a big thing that they're
on. Did he finished the work of Baal
or and completing this peaceful completion of Westeros into one
body rather than separate thing? And this is why a lot of people
fought for Damon because they wanted a chance.
They wanted the opportunity. That war brings a chance to win,
renowned Fame and get land and titles.
Can't do that piece, right? It's hard to do that.
He says, anyway. So someone like Byron flowers,
we don't know what house he was with black of all the colorful
names attached to a person like black, white blue, green, any
color black is probably the least determinative because
there's so many of way. Black is such a broad term.
It can mean color. Like either skin or hair.
Yeah, I want examples. Here is black Beth AA.
Black wood which is for her dark hair.
Hair and dark eyes, but also her house Blackwood and the same is
true of black Ali back, would ya?
And then we have skin tone, like, brown been Plum or black
Baloch, who that is, that does refer to their skin tone or
temperament, like black Walder. Yeah.
That Rob noted that he was not named for the color of his
beard, or they just choose the colors, like, because they
reverse the colors of their house, and it turns make some
black becomes the prom. Call her.
And that was what I was saying at the beginning.
How Nina? Now we're looking for houses
with a secondary color of black because if you reverse it, then
the secondary color becomes the prominent color.
So maybe black Byron was from how speak or say house cock,
Shaw or madhouse black bar, or maybe even a Barner or lay good,
little lesser houses like that. These are all houses that.
Definitely or maybe fought for the black fires cocks.
I definitely did Peak obviously one of the most prominent black
fire support period. So that could have been also
just a reflection of his allegiance to Daemon blackfyre.
So member of the black dragon, you know, Brotherhood.
So really it goes to show don't make too many assumptions when
someone has the nickname black something because it really
could be a lot of possibilities less.
So when we look at other colorful nicknames but still
still true like no one ever calls.
Someone like a red temper, you know Yuma or white tempered but
black temper gets that's a term and you know Anyway, I think you
can see the point. They're like, you have a real
blue temper. Nope.
I never heard that. A sense.
If you think Byron flowers, we really do sense of humor.
Yeah, that's true. Now as much as people look up,
Daemon blackfyre. As I said, the fact that he lost
arguably set things back for bastards Catelyn.
Stark would argue that this is why he's the best example of the
basic Point here. Bastards, usurp bastards lead to
Civil War. Maybe it's not their fault but
it happens. That's why she brought him up to
Rob because maybe farther back, they were trusting each other.
But when you get all these extended families and different
branches of the family, eventually it leads to something
like this and in the existence of other bastards enables that
because the bastards can all join together.
I like they did with date now in catlins case perhaps it's not
fair to. Cite the worst-case scenario.
That is what she was doing when talking to Rob, maybe that's not
fair. They were called the Great
bastards after all. That's like maybe that's not
maybe we should look at some other examples and not just down
if Rob who was only you know 16 at the time knew his history a
little better. He might have fired back with
some counter examples which we can do.
We're bastard brothers. Were staunchly loyal to their
house. Loyal in general, like Adam of
all what's on his Tombstone, one word oil, right.
Although, he was also legitimised but like, Daemon
blackfyre, but that's the point here because Rob was proposing
to legitimize John. So that is a perfect fit for
this scenario. Whether it's Adam, Damon, or
John. These were all bastards that got
legitimist. Well, John not necessarily yet.
We'll see about that. I also just in general would
have loved more historical name drops in that scene between
Catelyn and Rob, but I always want that.
So, what else is new? Now, Damon, of course, died on
the red grass field. What about black Byron?
Did he? Here's a quote, it would suit
Lord bloodraven, if their names were all forgotten.
So he has forbidden us to sing of them.
But I remember, Rob rain, Gareth the gray Sera Brie Ambrose Lord
Gorman, Peak black Byron, flowers, red tusks Fireball
bittersteel. I asked you has there ever been?
In such a Noble company, such a role of Heroes.
First of all, I questioned calling Gorman Peak and
bittersteel Noble, but maybe heroic.
I mean they were definitely Brave man, but I don't know
about heroes but Brave. Yeah.
So sir Eustace is very biased but Fireball was killed before
the battle. Bittersteel was not bitter,
didn't die during the battle at all.
So that proves he's not only speaking of the Fallen.
I mean, Maybe by The time, sir used to speaking this line may
be black, Byron had died, but there's no proof, he died at the
red grass field given this context.
He may have even escaped overseas and join bittersteel.
He may have become one of the first members of the golden
company. When it was formed.
That's a total possibility. And it may not have even
mattered as much to someone like blackfyre and given the he
didn't have lands or keep, he's not a legitimize bastard.
He wouldn't have been losing as much by fleeing overseas, so it
would have been easier choice for him, and in some ways, We
can maybe up the percentage of our guest here.
On him, it's harder to guess someone like a landed Noble fled
overseas because they're giving up their land.
Maybe they knew their land was lost and they had no choice, but
you can see why some of them would stay because they would
maybe be able to negotiate keeping it for a penalty, but
not someone who had no land in the first place.
Clearly, our next example, Definitely did definitely didn't
join the golden company rather - the when it was formed B.
This person is still alive and thus has an impact on the story
that we can only call TBD to be determined which argues that
he's among the most worthy of our Focus.
That is Franklin flowers. Quote, at the gate Alden said
something to the sergeant of guards and a runner was sent off
to find a captain when he turned up.
He was just as ugly as the at time Griff laid eyes on him a
big bellied shambling. Hulk of a man the sellsword had
a seemed face crisscrossed with old scars his right ear looked
as if a dog had chewed on it and his left was missing have they
made you a captain flowers? Riff said I thought the golden
company had standards. It's worse than that.
You booger said, Franklin flowers.
They knighted me as well. The golden company does have
standards battle standards with it.
Are you also a good example of a character Roy Dotrice actually
voices, perfectly and know, people complain about some of
the voices because he shouldn't be doing little girl voice.
You should not ask an old man. Anyway, I said that before but
he does this one really well, arguably.
He's a Golden Flower instead of black, because he's in the
golden company and he calls himself a brown applesauce away
and brown is closer to Gold. But anyway, whatever.
Its mother was a Washerwoman. It's cider Hall.
She was raped by a son of Lord fossa way, but between that and
his arrival, the golden company. We know nothing.
Just he fled to the golden company joined it.
We don't know why he left. Maybe he did something to upset
them. Lie, already didn't like them
because of what was done to his mother, but he lived there,
while he was young, it's not clear, not clear when he left.
Whether there was some reason he had to leave in a hurry, like,
say duck, but it's not hard to Guess that he was treated.
Poorly, is also ugly as we pointed out here, which doesn't
help and and he's good at fighting Nina says, it's a
reminder of the deeply classes. Nature of the westerosi social
political existence Franklin, flowers exists because of fossa
way. Aristocrat saw his mother as an
easy as easy prey, because she was living on his estate.
And because she has isn't going to find Justice on in a state
ruled by this, the family, who's the perpetrator of this crime.
It's a very unjust system, obviously.
And of course, Franklin can see that he comes from this.
You can see the unjustice pretty easy for him to look on the
fossa ways with violence. Right.
I don't know. It's hard to like tell a man in
that spot. Like no.
You shouldn't hate them. They're just living under.
No, of course not. His mother was probably further
mystery. This probably wasn't the only
time she was mistreated by was no one and done sort of thing
and even if it was the one was horrible in life-altering.
So yeah, and that's why he has this This memorable line about
when they're debating, whether we go east, whether we go west,
whether we invade Westeros. Now, this is his bottom line
quote, so long as I can kill some fossa ways.
I'm for it. So he might even be more
dangerous than this. This guy seems a bit.
We're meant to think he's a bit of a brute.
He's a little more sneaky than that.
I think. But picture, what happens when
they take Griffin's Roost, cottington sees the Ravens
flying at the maesters tower and they keep shooting them down,
right? And then he's like no more.
He tells that to flowers now is this a kill the master but
that's what happens, the he throws the major out the window.
I wasn't necessary. Just take the master key
habakkuk hostage or captive, right?
I don't know about this guy but he's interesting.
I suspect he's younger than connington because he's talented
enough to have risen to Captain but hadn't even been knighted
when John left 12 years prior. So my guess is he was kind of a
noob and quickly. Made a name for himself because
he's good at fighting and then good with people.
We see that he's good with people, we see the way he talks
of people and well, you got to have some leadership skills to
rise to Captain. That's not a fighting only
Talent. You know, you have to be to lead
people and we don't know how many captains are are in the
company, but we're pretty sure it's the highest rank other than
Captain General because it's kind of implies that it's like
chief executive. You have the chief executive,
the other Executives. Well he's tapped in general,
there's much captains and then the top Captain so I think
Captain is hey there's like a Church of s and commands there,
he's the one who introduces connington an egg on to the rest
of the officers which implies perhaps he has even higher
standing amongst the other captains and then he is the one
that introduces a gun to quote the lads, which is he just
introduced him to important people around the company, like
cooks and just people, he should know which means he's getting in
with him. He's getting close to his
befriending egg on. This is a smooth move on his
part. The guy that they're going to
make into a king. Well, Franklin flowers, right at
his side. His buddy.
You know, I think it's what he's doing, he's befriending the guy,
the kid that's Rising High smart, right?
And he's the one that leads the ram against Griffin's Russo.
He's out there kind of in the front, obviously not afraid as
sort of takes charge whenever Harry Strickland's not around,
although John is giving orders when they're at Griffin's Roost.
It's, he is Lord cowington after all, Nina says guess that
Franklin's pretty skilled as a warrior and Commander, his many
arm Rings he's of Lourdes, Lourdes Ransom in armor.
Rings. This is a fighting existence, I
mean you they fight to live. They take contracts that involve
extreme violence. So his adult life has been all
of this 12 years of fighting in the most professional company in
the world. That is not something you can
easily despised and a given the merit-based system that they
operate in and the type of Merit, you have to have to rise
being a good leader, being a good fighter, then.
Yeah, this guy is this guy's pretty important.
Flowers wants to go faster ways. But what about the end goal I
don't suppose? That's I don't know.
She's just going to be done once.
He's killed some possible ways, side are all itself, probably,
he probably wants to be the Lord of cider Hall.
That would be a great way to take back and take control over
the system of justice, that allowed his mother to be raped
and no one to be punished for it, ultimate the ultimate
payback, the certainly, if he kills enough fossa ways, it's
kind of his by default, but there are a lot of fossil ways
out there the apples. Well, there's lots of apples.
Maybe they're all close together though because the Apple doesn't
fall far from. Yeah, but but aegon, yeah, if we
get so far, aegon would just grant it to him.
Is, it seems like I'm egg on the 6th, I've taken the Iron Throne.
I reward my followers. It's a pretty straightforward
the reward. He would give to Franklin
flowers, the seat of his house. This is very straightforward,
right? But there would also be a need
to fight the existing reach Lords that are not with egg on
the sixth. He can't just March into King's
Landing, take throne and the Ben's it's neat.
No, maybe that'll pacify the crown once or at least some of
them, but the reach will still be like, no, we're not bending
the knee to you. We've already thrown are Laden
with well, depending on which faction we're talking about.
But randyll tarly is an example Nina's here.
That's one that lets say to yeah.
Yeah. Actually we yeah, we definitely
think he will fight for a God. Yeah.
He's a good candidate to flip. Maybe Rowan as well as mothers.
Yeah. But, yeah.
I do Wonder like randyll tarly for Sample.
What his real and let's say aegon's.
Like, okay, I'm here, I'm taking over and I have this guy.
I want to put in charge of side or Hall.
If Randall will be like, okay I gotta swallow my tongue and like
follow my king or if you'll be like, this is a bastard and a
brute. And a not fit to be a like I,
you know, like if he would bring his illegitimate, he would be
looking. Yeah.
That might help him swallow it, you know?
Yeah. Okay.
Officially he's not a bastard. Yeah.
But he's like, okay, well, He
could get around that, you know, I might be that might be small
enough pill to swallow. There's also another angle to
look at this. What if Franklin flowers himself
turned traitor on his own people not super likely but given his
proximity to aegon someone could bribe him to take out his young
charge in exchange for the thing he wants which is cider hall.
Now the thing is the guy that would be making an offer like
that is like a virus and first it's the one on this side so
virus won't be making Franklin flowers that offer and in fact
he might sniff that out of someone else does.
I think this is pretty remote chance but We always have to be
complete with our thinking and we can't assume Franklin,
flowers will stay loyal and I think if he does turn this would
be the kind of thing he would do.
It's funny too. Hey, guy wants to lead.
That's where we leave things off or he wants to lead the taking
of storms end. It was gonna be right by his
side, probably Franklin, Flowers by.
What if I was pranking flowers? Doing the things I'm doing, I
would want to be at agon side, as often as possible because
he's got goals, he wants to hang on to fulfill his ambitions.
You want some kind of funny? It's confusing.
The the Lord of Sky reach is Franklin, Fowler so Franklin,
flowers, Franklin Fowler. Yeah, and I mentioned duck
briefly sir. Franklin story May remind you of
him a bit because again Doc is really trusted by Prince aegon
to. So these two characters May
interact with pet duck, being one of guns, kingsguard Franklin
flowers, setting himself up to be aegon's right-hand, man, or a
important operative of his than those two will be together now.
Raleigh's, not a bastard. He was better Bridge place is
not as far as we know, he wasn't And better bridge is where our
next profile originates. First, though Ethan has says
five cents. Super Chances with baby monster.
Is an example. How much you think we're meant
to consider the others at the archetypical bastards who
westerosi misunderstand? Ooh, that's a great way to look
at it because. All right, so clearly what I
think Ethan has is referring to here with this question, is the
idea that the others are like magically converted first men,
which would make them sort of bastard children of a sense and
that they are, they have the blood origin of human parents,
but were raised elsewhere. and, Aren't part of the family and
are the Revenge of the mistreated.
The, the children were mistreated by Humanity.
So they made their children into weapons or they made our
children into weapons and use them against us because if the
children altered humans and made them into weapons to send back
against other humans. Yeah, that's kind of like taking
the throne away humans and saying, hey look they threw you
away, that wasn't fair. They threw me away to Let's team
up and Get them. That's a lot of the attitude.
You see, with the rejected folks saying let's all gang up
together and get those people that rejected us like takes one
leader to unite that like like a Daemon blackfyre or maybe even a
Mance rayder. You look at it that way as Terra
incognita says, in the chat. Bastards are other authorized.
Yeah. They're Esther bastards bastard.
Husband is very perfect doll. You nailed it.
That's a really, really really great take and Ethan asked the
one thing I've got to say though, is you kind of ruined my
surprise Maybe monster is coming up in this episode, but we'll
save that for later if you're not fully understanding what I
mean by that. Then the surprise is at least
partly. Hey intact, hey Tom flowers is
our next one just before the dance of dragons fully broke
out, the Lord's had court were forced to bend the knee to King,
aegon the second by the greens, right before they kind of got
the jump on the blacks and we're like, all right, we've crowned
egg on, bend the knee or you're a traitor.
And there were like, whoa, what's happening?
I don't even know what the hell like it was all.
So quick if you remember on TV and in the books.
So some few refused one of whom was Lord Caswell of bitter
Bridge, those who refused were executed and on TV this was
particularly prominent because Caswell was kind of made the
example of because Laura Caswell was hanged on TV after being
caught by Lord Lawry's. But in the book, he was headed
along with the rest. We don't know if his bastard son
will be on the TV as well. We hope so though, because this
is him Tom flowers, Tom flowers, the bastard of better Bridge
didn't go so cleanly. As you might guess, house,
Caswell after that, after what was done to their lord, well,
they didn't switch to the greens after their lord was executed by
the greens, of course. They were staunch for the blacks
usually houses do fight against the houses that killed her
Lord's. Unless there unless there's
hostages involved or something like that and they're forced
into it but they weren't in this case.
Maybe they should have kept Lord as well as hostage because then
they wouldn't have had time flowers up against them.
And he led the response. He was one of apparently five
commanders at the battle on the honey wine.
The others were all of high rank here.
Lord tarly, lord costain, lord, Rowan, and Sir, allenbys burry,
of course, the bees buries were upset as well because of what
was done to Lord bees buried the master of coin, right?
That's pretty straightforward. So notably Tom flowers, probably
a sir also he probably sir Tom flowers very likely especially
if he's a commanding reached nights I could imagine them the
pride flaring up. It being led by not only a
bastard but a guy who's not a night like that.
Just wouldn't do it right. Would you like that?
We're not following this guy, especially Lord tarly, Lord cost
and Lord grown being at the same relative rank turn in terms of
his battle. So this guy must have been
special to be at the same level as them.
I mean, lord lord, lord sir and bastard.
Right. That implies he's a good
warrior, good Commander if not great warrior He might have been
legitimized did how do you survive the war?
But he didn't survive the war. It was going well for a while.
The black armies had trapped the high tower host between them,
they were winning, but quote, the arrival of Prince Darren and
his Dragon reverse, the tide of battle.
Now it was Lord orman's men attacking screaming curses at
their foes. Whilst the queen's men fled by
day's end, Lord Rowan was retreating North with the
remnants of his host, Tom flowers, laid dead and burned.
Monks the reads the to Allen's had been taken captive.
And Lord cost Dane was dying from a wound, given him by bold,
John roxton's Black Blade, the orphan maker One thing, Tom
flowers can say one thing that his family can say is that no
one beat him in combat, no mortal human.
He was burned to death by 2. Sorry Ian yeah.
So hey no mortal no man took down Tom flowers, it took a
dragon. It's got a loss, right?
Silver Lining even Prince Darren admitting this much when Lord
Hightower he preys on him afterwards saying, quote, my
Lord is kind to say so but the victory belongs to to sorry--and
I'd say Tom flowers would agree. Fee had the mouth to speak the
mountain flowers, might be a good example of a bastard who
raises the esteem of other bastards then.
Because like I said, he'd be remembered well for this for his
bravery in battle for rising to be a CO Commander with Lords who
were amongst the best of there are.
So I think that helps his story might be better known than one
would think in that region in the southern portion of the
reach Nina says, it may also be a very local sort of Fame.
Or one or one most prized among members of the Caswell family, a
say Melissa Blackwood who has a statue, honoring her in the
Raven three quads would. But it only vaguely known about
by say Jamie maybe because he's not a warrior in Jamie's.
Like upbringing was all who's obsessed with stories of war and
stuff like that. Tom flowers, might be a regional
hero for the caswell's and people better bridge.
But that doesn't mean, you know, people in King's Landing or the
North would have heard of him beverages a well traffic
location. So, it is possible that the
story is spread over the years. House Caswell has participated
in many of the famous Civil Wars and westerosi history because of
its being so well traffic than somewhat Central and reach the
scene where Catelyn Witnesses Brienne defeat.
The Knight of flowers, not to be confused with a flowers, a
bastard named to win a spot in the rainbow guard that was at
Bitter Bridge. The reason it's such an
important location is because as the name suggests there's a
bridge and it crosses the mandor right where the Rose Road meets
it. So the Rose Road is a major Ager
Highway basically the equivalent of Highway and these the setting
and this bridge is part of that. But the bridge was only Reese
relatively recently renamed to better bridge for most of
Westeros history. It was called stone bridge and
we're talking a long time ago that it had that name because
the ironborn used to raid up the mandor as far as stone bridge
and the ironborn having rated up the mandor that far for more
than 1000 years I think until your honor.
They weren't referring to that in this context.
So in 42, a see, one of the first major battles of the
faith. Militant Uprising against
maegor. The cruel took place six,
royalists armies caught. An army of 9,000 poor fellows as
they tried to cross up River of Stonebridge.
Not too far upriver but they were doing it.
I guess to maybe avoid being seen and if they crossed at the
bridge. Well that's kind of obvious.
They would have they would have been seen coming but they were
seeing anyway, the slaughter was so great that the river ran red
for as much as 20. Leagues, which is like 60 miles.
If I remember my leagues correctly and Stonebridge became
known as bitter Bridge thereafter.
So great was the Carnage that even the Caswell Castle became
known as bitter Bridge as well. So it's the town, the bridge and
the castle, all they're all better bridge.
Now the data likely would not have even taken place had things
gone slightly differently earlier in the year which brings
us cleanly to our next example, take on flowers men, do not
follow the instructions in plaid.
I just named specially dealing with roses or any other thorny
flower. This is a character not a
guideline or command. Yeah, stick on flowers before
the poor fellows were slaughtered a bit of bridge and
elsewhere because that wasn't the only place they were
slaughtered by Meg or and his people a small group of Warriors
Sons, attempted to forestall all of that, Slaughter by
challenging makers, claim to the crown, a brave Group of Seven
Champions led by Sir, Damon Morgan, AKA Damon The Devout
fought. Or and his six Champions shortly
after a nice is death, none of the other seven were bastards as
far as we can tell, but sir dick on flowers was like the other
Warriors son to the King's Landing chapter.
He was living at the sept of remembrance, he was called the
bastard of bees Brewery, another bees burry coming up here which
is why he's included in the black flowers here because if he
reversed his arms like so many bastards do, it would be black
bee hives on a yellow field instead of yellow bee hives on
Rockville. Now, we don't know much about
his background just because he was a second or third, son.
Actually, he may have been. I mean, he was a bastard.
So he couldn't have inherited normally, but he may have been
the eldest. It's entirely possible yelling
me. Know, if we can only we can be
too sure about is that he was Pious because he joined the
warrior Sons. Maybe he was unwelcome and honey
hole. Maybe they did him, maybe he did
them Proud by going off to do this, like Jon Snow volunteering
to join the watch, something like that, he took care of an
internal problem. Conflict within his own family
by volunteering to leave and making his own way out in the
world. Who knows pure guesswork here
either way It's worth noting that house peasebury is for and
house Hightower and hightower's had a long close association
with the faith, right? That's even true in their of
past the Dragon Dance, the dragons time and true afterwards
as well. Of course, the Citadel is right
there next to the high tower. They've super-long influence
mostly One Way. Influence the hightower's
influencing The Citadel less so the other way around, but either
way, I'm sorry, the Sid I said, the sit, all I meant to say the
high septon and the great staff and all that stuff, all the
faith Mm-hmm, but also the Sentinel.
So that is probably maybe part of this, the two degrees of
separation. Here you have high Towers being
so closely associated with the faith and some of their direct
vassals would also. But in turn be directly
associated with the faith. There's power in the face.
There's power in that organization and it's a big part
of the cultural center of Westeros is the worship of the
seven. So it's not hard to see why this
guy was under this umbrella, but he's clearly a great warrior to
being able to rise this High. You wonder especially in that
era. How were bastards treated by
organizations like this? A lot of the seven worship, sort
of backs, the nobility like it's designed, sort of geared, like,
a lot of religions are sort of geared towards protecting people
in power, or religion. Like to be clear, a lot times
religions are altered to affect people in power, they come, they
may be organically involved some way and then get changed by
people in power to more benefit them.
That's pretty standard right now in this case, we don't know how
they viewed bastards. Clearly, they allowed him to
rise to this position but this isn't a position of authority.
Its position of Respect. There is a difference.
You can have both this guy's a warrior.
He's not telling people what to do not given commands.
Is that the same as a Tom flowers, leading an arm.
This is just a champion. He's a maybe someone that's
vital to or not Idols the wrong term, but someone to look up to
an example to other Warriors Sons because he was one of the
seven chosen to fight maegor. The most important trial by
seven in history, to that point quite possibly especially given
what Meg Corwin On to do, and the effects of their loss.
If they had beaten him, they would have averted all of the
horrible things make or did. If they went up to heaven
afterwards and look down, they would have been weeping over
what Meg or did, next. All the debt, various different
things he did next, which were horrible like burning.
The sept of remembrance where they all lived in all of their
seven hundred Brothers killed there.
If they had just beaten him that wouldn't happen.
You know, as Pious guy who's worked so hard to be.
One of the best fighters in this Marshall organization.
He would have been just praying and hoping and giving everything
you had to win that battle. But their best was not good
enough and he was close. Remember only Meg or almost
died? Also, even though he was the
last one, he wasn't even standing.
I would say the last man standing, but he wasn't even
standing. So dang, yes, they would have
prevented that and bitter bridge and all that other stuff.
But unfortunately, Hagar was maegor.
Next up, we have black shield. This is a good example of one
that isn't called flowers, but he very clearly must have been
barristan. The Bold recalls attorney where
he defeated a mystery Knight called Black Shield who turned
out to be the bastard of Uplands, this would have been in
the time frame of 278 281. So embarrassed was already in
his 40s. Now again, we don't know
anything about this night. We don't even have his full
name, we just know that. Well, the tourney was in Old
Town and Uplands is the seat of house mullendore, which is Next
to Old Town due east and them on doors, are vassals of the height
H. So the bastard of Uplands is
very clearly, a flowers. And we don't know why he was
competing as a mystery night, but he was trying to conceal his
identity for some, maybe he was a criminal and wanted to hide
who he was, he was competing on behalf of some woman, like
aiming the dragonknight dead, or there's a lot of possibilities
as bran would say, he would nod say agency?
Yes, mystery nights a very sophisticated topic.
So if you were Use the mullendore colors and reverse
them. You've got black on orange
because their sigil is orange and black butterflies on a white
field. So reversing that you would
either have orange butterflies with black wings, which is the
bigger part of them. The butterfly body is much
smaller than the wings or if you turn the White Field and reverse
that you've black, maybe all-black, which would give you
a black. She'll wear.
Yeah, there you go, it's perfect.
Example of all these Concepts about figure guy who character
is even without having the explicit name for them.
Nina adds to this. One aspect of reach bastard.
He was black should bite in body is the ability for these men to
use the prominence of provided by such public displays of
Knighthood, in order to form career for themselves with the
reach, being the heart of chivalry or at least the outward
performance of chivalry in Westeros, it naturally Foster's
staging attorneys and attorneys are very good opportunity for
able-bodied Westeros emails to make a name for themselves.
They might not otherwise have by birth or inheritance.
If a night is particularly good with a Lancer.
Able in the melee, he has a chance to become famous, and or
wealthy, even though he might have been born a bastard.
So, So sort of what Nina saying here is.
He's a mystery, not. You don't know who he is, you
don't assume he's a bastard. You don't assume much if at all,
other than he's a knight, but if you know their bastard right
away, they might people aren't might be rooting against them.
They may already be looking down on, but if you don't know, then
what's mystery that afterwards? Like, oh, they're a bastard.
Okay. Well then you've already form
this opinion of him as a great warrior without the bias of
bastardy attached to them. So this may have been a clever
way for Black Shield too. Advances reputation while
setting the bias aside temporarily because he can't be
a mystery night at all times. Obviously, still.
That's pretty clever, but that's just one guess we don't know the
Black Shield did that but someone could have this idea is
out there. It does exist.
It's a way to dodge your own stigma at least temporarily set
it aside during an event, you know.
Like it's kind of clever we'll come back to black flowers in
the form of flowers in the Nights Watch but it's time for a
different color now, why 12 hours again?
We'll reverse the color. I can wait her off and you
mirror colors or reverse. So, keeping with bastards
reversing the color of the residuals will go from black
cloaks and shields to White kingsguard of course kingsguard
and white. That is the most obvious example
that we have this guy's nickname, Robert flowers was
read Robert flowers already. He's throwing us off.
Now, he's a red and white flower.
That's right. Yeah.
He was not just in the kingsguard.
He was, Lord commander. In fact, the whites Lord
Commander kingsguard the red, who knows, maybe just said red
hair. It's easier to narrow down.
On with red than black. Because like I said before the
new red personality, or you can have red hair and you get for
being a bloody man. I'm glad he person like, if you
were, but that's not likely with the kingsguard exactly like,
without Noble, they really. Are, I kind of don't imagine
that he was known for his bloody mess, but it made me.
Yeah. But yeah, you could be known for
that and slurs aside. People don't have literally red
skin. You may have red tones skin, but
and that isn't really even been a thing.
And A Song of Ice and Fire really, that particular skill I
don't even I don't know that that's ever been a reference
point when talking about other races, I don't think it has.
Yeah, it doesn't seems out of place to think that would be the
case here. So my guess is he I wouldn't
guess that black. Something just means black hair
because it's too many other possibilities.
But red, I would strongly guess, it's probably just hair color
but with the caveat that it might not be actually they miss
that they misinterpreted it this whole time.
It was red like he was very well-read, he was a scholar.
Now, here are some examples of houses that might have be read
using. The bastard color doing the
reverse color guessing method Charlie.
Charlie is green with a red Huntsman so it could be red with
the green Huntsman Webber, the red spider, right?
The black spider on red or red fire on black red apple fossa
way in Reverse. Right.
We've already had a brown applesauce away, why not?
This Nina says we couldn't. We shouldn't ignore the
possibility that the red might have come from personality as
well. That's good point Fireball for
hothead. And red hair.
So Fireball had to knock checked off.
Two of the boxes or Dalton, Greyjoy the red Kraken.
That was Bloody Deeds. Yeah, so yeah, it's a good
example and Nina's Christie came here, says calling.
Someone read could also be a euphemism for drunk.
Oh, yeah. Red face because they drink a
lot, that's probably doesn't apply to.
This guy being Lord, Commander the king, he probably not but
still has an interesting other. Angela told, she's totally right
to bring that up. Yeah, yeah.
Totally It would be interesting if read Robert flowers, was Lord
commander of the kingsguard at the time of the first blackfyre
Rebellion during the red grass field.
Maybe the red and his nickname could come from allegiance to
the red dragon as opposed to the black of Daemon blackfyre, which
would contrast him if by chance black buyer and flowers is black
because of he fights for the black dragon.
If its nascent Basin heraldry though, the nickname would have
come before he joined the kingsguard probably because of
all the the white out, the bleaching that comes from
joining the kingsguard but he then it might have come in
anytime. So anyway, his name comes up,
thanks to Jamie. Who's giving sir Lawrence, the
lesson in humility? Be a historical kingsguard of
note, Addison Hill, the white owl, Michael Mertens, Jeffrey
Norcross, they called him, never yield read Robert flowers.
What can you tell me of them? Flowers is a bastard named.
So is Hill yet. Both men, Rose to command the
kingsguard, their tails are in the book Roland.
Our clan is in here, too. Youngest man, ever to serve in
the kingsguard tell me he was given his cloak on a battlefield
and died within an hour of donning.
It astute. Regular listeners will recognize
real and dark line as the answer to a recent trivia question.
Note how Laura's jumps on the badger Dean's right away?
It's hard not to catch the Prejudice when looking at these
characters and how and the the higher up a family is the more
likely that prejudice is going to exist because the loss of
their land to a bastard claim would be more devastating.
Going to a family with the amongst the most amount of
wealth and land. But to Jamie's credit, Jaime
Lannister also from a big wealthy powerful family.
He teaches Laura said, clearly these were men of good
character, arguably even stronger because they had to
rise higher loras and Jamie both had a fast lane to the
kingsguard even. Oh, Simon didn't want that
still. They had amassed line to the
kingsguard of Because of Who their families are no Lannister
or Tyrell. Head, Start was available for
read Robert flowers, probably probably Maybe he was of of
Highborn family. A particularly High prominence
family and they actually treated him.
Well it's possible although if Robert flowers were himself a
Tyrell Jamie with said so so he's right on that family.
He's from Nina adds, the point Dolores is to say that there is
more to kingsguard than just being delicious, most famous and
Infamous stories. It's not just being a great
warrior. That might be, especially true.
If read Robert flowers, again was Lord Commander during the
first blackfyre Rebellion, if gwaine corbray who went sword to
sword against Daemon blackfyre in one of the most epic Duels of
the entire blackfyre rebellion in total, not just the first
one. Well, that's remember but maybe
read Robert. Flowers was right there with
him. Maybe he ended up fighting
somebody else. Maybe his leadership enabled the
war to go as well as it did in part.
Obviously, he wasn't the only leader.
And Jamie admits, there are bad ones too.
Still, you know, even though he says that you shouldn't judge
them by their name. And the point is the point here
is, let's dial it back a bit. The point is to push back
against the idea that bastard's are bad because they're
bastards, not to suggest that no bastards can be villains like
any D other eyes dehumanized group, whether it's real world,
minority cultural group, anything like that.
You shouldn't judge a group by its whole membership, or by
individuals, right? Certainly any members of good
groups that could be bad people, right?
Just because bastards aren't all bad, doesn't mean they're all
good either there's definitely some bad ones.
Our next example is probably just that a bastard and
villainous kingsguard. But first I want to guess that.
When R uh Trevor Trevor read Robert flowers existed the one
the reason Enoch he never guessed Suggested.
The first blackfyre Rebellion is because that is one of the best
options for where we can place him.
We if he was just a regular kingsguard, it would be almost
impossible to figure out when he lived but because he was Lord
Commander, that narrows it down substantially because can only
be one Lord Commander at a time. So anytime we know the Lord
Commander red router flowers, can't be it.
So the most likely time without going through all the details
and why it couldn't be, is during the Reigns of a nice
maegor. And then a Xena says, just add
during the early black fire and later, blackfyre Rebellion areas
where we don't necessarily know who the Lord come into the
King's Guard was. So those are possibilities for
read, Robert flowers. But now let's talk about our
bastard villainous kingsguard Mervin flowers.
Here's a nice lengthy quote to get us started on him bastard,
born himself, sir Mervyn was regarded by most dutiful.
If not, especially heroic member of the kingsguard neither
Champion or hero, but a season Soldier, and a fair hand with a
longsword, a little man who did as he was, told not all men are.
As they seem however, particularly We in King's
Landing, those who knew flowers, best saw other sides of him.
When not on duty, he was fond of one.
Says mushroom who is known to have drunk with him.
Hmm, those sworn to Chastity. He seldom, slept alone, save in
his cell at White sword Tower, despite being somewhat
ill-favored, he had a rough charm that washer women and
serving girls responded to and when in his cups would even
boast of having bedded certain High.
Ladies like many bastards, he was hot of blood and quick to
anger seeing slights where none had been intended.
Okay, a lot, we can get from that a seasoned soldier in the
year 135, pretty, much guarantees.
He fought in the dance of the Dragons, which ended only four
years prior as a bathroom, how speak he would have clearly been
with the greens. He would have likely been in the
host that almost lost to Tom flowers and Company.
So he might have been on the edge of death before kothari and
saved the whole group. He was with Then he would have
been at the slaughter of bitter bridge and Tumble tin and second
Templeton possibly standing nearby.
When Rowdy the ruined charge, the Hightower position, he might
have been really close to that. And he probably took part in the
massacres of tumult in first and second, quite quite likely, so
plenty of red flags, but even just being half-brother to lure
done. When Peak is a huge red flag of
its own even though how Speak doesn't feature any red.
So we went to read Robert to red flags Unwin forms the caltrops.
Twelve other reach large, large Peak.
Just murder is one of them during an argument, if you
recall and I wonder if one of the reasons he felt comfortable
doing that was because Mervyn was standing there.
Backing him up, it's really easy to throw your weight around and
just murder people. When you don't fear the
consequences because you've got a big brute standing behind.
You ready to back your play. So all these red flags are not
misplaced though. He's another example of what
appears to be bash, traditional Prejudice.
I just made that word up. That's right back.
As traditional Prejudice, that line about being quick to anger
and seeing slights were none, had been intended, sounds like
just amazed reading a narrative projecting common beliefs about
bastards. Nina says, although Gildan later
goes on to say that none of this suggested that flowers was the
sort of monster who could take a sleeping child from her bed and
throw her to a grisly death. She thinks fire blood has a
distinctly Pro Unwin leading at certain points so it doesn't
surprise her that bill Dane would be unwilling to condemn on
one's personal cat's paw or potential cat's paw and half
brother. A crime of killing Genera or
allowing her to be murdered by another.
But I'm with Nina here, I don't, I think that plenty of this
suggests that flowers was the type of monster that could
seriously picture. Like, I don't agree with that
conclusion at all from gilbane and if he truly did sleep with
some Highborn, ladies that might come out and Fire and Blood to
if he had bastards with them, if not.
Yeah, but one of those names was Cassandra breath.
He almost certainly did sleep with her.
Well, he names her anyway, but she had no children.
So there's no bastard came from that Union.
She was egg on the S wife and aegon couldn't consummate.
So this is kind of like a creepy.
Maybe like he was using his kingsguard to?
Yeah. Lets you get the picture.
We don't need to illuminate that picture, fully, they're doing.
Well, actually need to correct me.
They didn't actually marry Cassandra negin were betrothed.
They never technically married, but yeah, he wouldn't have been
able to consummate anyway, and it was a particularly bastard
full kingsguard. Yes, bastard.
Itial is the word now. And so is bastard full, because
there were a lot of bastards in this particular kingsguard.
And unfortunately, it did no favors to the cultural view of
bastard because these were not the good sword.
So from Fire and Blood quote having elevated Ser Marston
Waters to commander of the kingsguard Lord Peak.
Now, prevailed upon him to For white cloaks to two of his own
kin, his nephew Ser Amory peak of star Pike and his bastard
brother, sir Mervyn flowers. He went Ham on this Unwin did
appointing, his kin to a huge number of offices.
The tyrells the way, they're slowly grabbing Offices here and
there at King's Landing Unwin. How did them by a factor of two
or three? He hi.
Rosa did this with some Grace, some sneakiness on was just like
I'm appointing you here, you here?
Just like openly, just just quickly P.
Yeah, that's right. Now of all these appointments
quote, his grace was, especially unhappy with his kingsguard.
He neither liked nor trusted the two new men and had not
forgotten the presence of Sarah Marston.
Waters at his mother's death. Yes sir, Martian water just
stood there which aegon will point out later during the
resolution of the secret Siege. Now, of course the reason we're
like you know, if you forgotten The reason his grace can't do
anything about this is because he's underage.
She's blow the age of 16. She couldn't stop on one from
any of this stories like this. That like, I mean I feel so bad
for aegon. Yeah.
Like the way they talk about his depression and like how he must
have felt. So, lacking an agency in power,
despite he should. I yeah, I feel so bad for that
kid only one. Just like saw the age 16 coming
and was like, well, I'm gonna strip away as much power from
this King as possible before. Yeah.
He'll be able to hold on to it even after he comes of age and
Thankfully for the king and when was gone by the not dead and he
was still affecting things. But his grip on the throne
lesson, this is significantly when he came of age or little
before that, I suppose. So, yeah, a gun was particularly
unhappy with his kingsguard marked and Waters being Lord,
Commander presided over his mother's death, he didn't like
Mervin flowers. He didn't like sir, Armory peak.
Of course the the obvious influence of Unwin is
overwhelming here. Picture, how Alison had Cole at
her side and how he helped her and force her will, when she
would, when two people Clash about a decision, she would come
out ahead a lot of times because criston Cole standing right
there and they know that. If she doesn't get her way
Christy Coleman, I do something about it, right?
Cersei with Robert strong at her side, very similar, they're not
even going to test her because of this violent man.
At her side that has that reputation that will step up and
even Even I can't control him. Allison doesn't say that but
that's implied, right? Hmm.
So think about that. Think about Unwin Peak who is
not subtle? Who is not, oh, I don't know
what he'll do. No, he'll just flat out.
Say, get out of my way, or my men will kill you.
That's more like his style. I think.
So, that's how Unwin I really think that's how he carried
himself around. The right.
Keeps Us walking around with his muscle at his side in the form
of kingsguard nights. Loyal to him.
Not the royal family though. Of course, one of his aims was
to become Part of the royal family.
So, those two things would have become Blurred Lines over time
if you'd got, and that meant murder.
Because the young king already had a queen though, they were
too young to produce children and Lord anwen.
Contended that they never would Queens.
Your hair went out the window and fell to her death pushed
jumped, we don't know. But quote Lord Peak could not
have pushed. The child from the window
himself to be sure as he was elsewhere in the city when she
died. But the King's Guard posted the
Queen's dog. Or that night was Mervyn
flowers. His bastard brother.
Could he have been the hands cat's paw?
It is more than possible particularly in light of later
events. So yeah, refer to that earlier
quote, the source is in Fire and Blood say they don't stay admit
Merton flowers. It seemed like a good man but
they don't think he's capable child murder.
But again, I don't agree with that at all second.
Secondarily, it's easy to get a murderer past him, right via the
front door with on winds. And or well this is the red keep
were talking about with all the secret tunnels around.
It's not a place. You should just go blame the guy
at the door. Yeah like that's not exactly
fair. I am highly suspicious of
course. But all the reasons is the red
keep were talking. Yeah.
Me he had the motivation. Yeah, he did have the
motivation, he had. Yeah.
So it's I do blame him. But if this wasn't the red keep
we could be like 100% with with the red gets, given us, the red.
Keep maybe we should say 99% He another thing you do is you cut
off the ear of a young Squire just for protecting his Lord.
Even all he did was draw his sword.
He didn't swing at anybody, didn't cut anybody to hurt
anybody. But Mervyn flowers had I'm you
know I'm gonna teach him a lesson that you shouldn't bear
steel against the kingsguard this was during the, you know, a
coup so like wow. So when his role the secret
Siege and the possible murder of Jerry and the plot to murder
Lara Gaara, viserys, his wife came to light his own Lord
commander and fellow bastard. Marston Waters came to confront
Front him and arrest him, which is kind of like Marston being
like, yeah, I was always the with the good guys, hmm.
Well, examine him another day, but quite likely, he just
flipped, because he saw which way the tide was turning his
like, well, I'm gonna so you bad guy Mervin, you know, and
Mervyn's probably like what you and I were in This Together,
Mervin made it looked like he was going to surrender.
Then he grabbed his dagger and stabbed Waters in the belly and
then tried to get away, killing a few more Innocents in the
process, like some stable hands and things like that.
He Caught though and overwhelmed and beaten to death while still
wearing his white cloak. He probably would have run for
Star Pike. I guess probably hoping Unwin
would give him shelter, although I'm going to probably have had
to ship him off to essos to get him away.
Kind of like the that one Baratheon, brother.
And that is the end of Mervin flowers.
The man who was also overwhelmed in beaten but not to death is
our next subject. The character that's very well
covered as his more about him than a lot of the others but
we've already sort of well covered him.
So we're not going to rehash too much but we want to bring him
into the fold here. He absolutely belongs, he's not
in the kingsguard but in our head Canon, we think he will be
when it's all said and done. This is Glendon flowers.
We cover them very thoroughly in the mitternight episodes but he
deserves a little extra Focus here for a couple minutes again.
He believes his father Fireball, AKA Quentin ball.
This is not super likely but it is possible.
His mother was named Penny Jenny, but she died when he and
his sister were young, his sister intern slept with a
knight named Ser Morgan. Dunstable the first man she ever
slept with an exchange for knighting, young Glenda.
Not the most romantic story ever for a knighting, but it is.
In a sense, his sister did something, very big gift to give
for him, you know, and I kind of wonder what Her, you know, just
Glendon. He would think he would care for
her if she still around, but we don't really know where she is
these days. He's still very young and dunk
and egg stories. Hopefully we get more of them
and he's traveling with them as of the end of the mystery night.
So it's quite possible. He's with them for a while.
Maybe his sister makes an appearance, we get her name for
something but that's kind of why we see him.
Maybe join the kingsguard one day because his father was
promised to spot in the kingsguard the guy he thinks
it's his father the guy, he claims his father anyway.
And he's getting close with the future, Lord, commander of the
Future King. So it's easy to see how he could
end up in eggs kingsguard, right?
Like. Yeah, it's a natural fit.
A lot of time has to pass before.
That could happen. Maybe something will tragic will
happen to Glenn and before but could be real satisfying, it
would be real satisfying so you can see why we're hopeful for
that. We're optimistic.
This is how it goes for Glendon. He says I am Glendon ball.
Not Glendon flowers. He gets angry, they mock him.
We saw Saw that bastard chip on his shoulder.
Drove him the maester says like so many bastards, quick to anger
and quick to here in Seoul where there wasn't one that that does
apply to Clinton flowers. It absolutely does apply to him
but it he's one of these guys that You can say that you feel
angry about the way you're treated and you take that energy
and you turn it into something positive, some people sit there
and they see and it breaks them the weight of that.
Prejudice of that hate, that unfair treatment, it breaks
them, and I don't blame them, it's a huge burden.
What who am I to judge that? I don't face that burden, but
some people in this is something that a lot of us respect For
good reason they take that prejudice and they channel the
anger, they feel over it into something productive.
It's in a lyric from A Rage Against the Machine song channel
that hate to productive. That's what he did.
He took the hatred and he made himself a great warrior he could
see him channeling it during the tournament.
Like I'm going to show them what I'm made of he's so determined
kick. Get that kind of determination
from other places like you the privileged upbringing doesn't
bring the ice. You might still have a high
level of motivation after privileged upright, but it's not
going to be because of this. It's not going to be that
burning desire to prove. You're more than people say you
are. Because if you're born, it's
IRL, you're already up there, right?
So, anyway, so this lights are intended often.
Yes, sometimes, lights aren't intended, and he sees them, but
sometimes they're absolutely intended like being called but
night of the pussy willows. Everyone laughed at him, that
was, of course, there was on purpose.
They were trying to mock The flowers.
I feel the most sorry for is definitely fali a flowers, but
the one I like the most might be Glick.
Sir Glendon, excuse me. He is knighted whether or not
he's a ball or not. He's definitely knighted.
So, may he joined eggs kingsguard OG R RM.
Even though that may mean he dies, summerhall or something
else like that, but hey, all men must die.
Last we saw he was headed north with Duncan egg.
We're very confident. They'll get to Winterfell.
Not, so sure, they'll go all All the way to the wall, they might,
and we will today in this episode after our break here.
A word from our friends at smile.
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Also, want to remind you all of the awesome episode Searcher.
That is Shay has continued to fine-tune over the years.
We can pretty much Call It episode search for 2.0 now.
I guess it's far enough along from its initial iteration that
I'd say, it's worthy of a new title it's not 1.1 or 1.4
street. It's still got.
A lot of changes will be like 10.0 before I'm happy with it
but yes I am working on it and trying to make it even better.
But for now if you are Adrian, you can get access to it and
have our old database available to you which could be very
useful. Especially if you're like, I
really want to find that one episode that had Mary and Clint
from learn hands and you can't find it easily, but you can just
go to that and just look through guests and that out of, there's
a lot of ways, it could be useful.
See, I absolutely. Like one thing is, if we're
having about to have a guest on especially their return guest
would be like, well, I missed the first time.
Yeah, Kavita. For example.
Yeah, you're going to check that out.
Yeah, the episode she was on was a preview episode for House of
the Dragon. So a lot of y'all might not a
cop back because it was the preview episodes are only in the
Limelight for about 48 hours before the next house.
The Dragon episode drops and then it's kind of a lot of it's
a little bit past the point of off a shelf life already.
So yeah, that's a great point. If you are a subscriber to us
outside of Patron, if you send a donation or if you are a Spotify
subscriber email us and we will send you the link to the episode
Searcher every week. That goes by, it gets to be a
little bit harder to search our back catalogue.
We're just trying to do something about that because The
different platforms Spotify, YouTube, and iTunes, and all the
none of them have a great solution for this or or any
solution for this any solution playlist, which is the closest
thing. But yeah, even that is yeah.
Woefully incomplete. Ha ha ha.
Next up, we have Wallflowers counting flowers on the wall
that don't bother me at all. That's The Statler Brothers.
So you'd thought I'd use quick before we go on.
Someone had a good man, a good comment about the idea of good
blend. And Paul thighs at summer haul,
he died in a ball of fire. Oh my God, from Jackie green
fire, but still. Yeah, hurry fire.
But I just had to point that out before I moved on Wallflowers,
which I really appreciated as he's referring to Wallflowers
because we are going to talk about Wally's flowers
eventually. That's right.
You thought I'd use a song by the actual band, The
Wallflowers, but no counting flowers on the wall.
We clearly will. We could have called these black
flowers to, you know, cuz yeah they're nice.
Watch black Brothers but I couldn't resist the chance to
call them off course, especially given the whole blue rose
growing in the wall imagery. That's a snow, not a flowers but
it's a flower in the ice. I so still, I say still it.
Fits, especially since Sean's know himself is also on the
wall. He is the blue flower growing in
the wall in command of bastards from all regions, which probably
matters to them. Like it did for Daemon
blackfyre. There is a Certain way in which
bastards are uniquely treated in the Seven Kingdoms.
After all Nina writes the Nights Watch also provides a more open
in there for ostensibly, easier opportunity for bastards to make
notable professional careers for themselves.
That can only be seven nights of the kingsguard in a given time
and they're supposed to be the seven best nights in the entire
Kingdom. The maesters will only pass
those who show aptitude at various subjects knowledge, and
the face internal organization and opportunities for
advancement, especially after the end of the faith militant
are far from Clear. But the wall accepts literally
anyone and has many different positions Rangers for the more
Marshall builders for the non-martial physically, strong
and stewards for those who may have more intellectual
administrative and organizational abilities flowers
who shows up on the wall can still make something of himself
Rising by ability and the support of his brothers become a
high-ranking officer or even Lord Commander.
Yeah, we mentioned this with Daemon blackfyre, but he was a
living legend and a lot of those he inspired.
Probably did so into distance, may be needing him.
Flea once or twice if they were lucky but the Nights Watch is
despite all the larger sets of opportunities, the depth of type
of an organization and different skill sets required.
It is a smaller more intimate organization.
This would still apply, even though there's all these
different Castles different people around, like, John hasn't
met all the people from The Shadow Tower even though he's
their lord Commander. But still, they know who he is.
They know, based on his name, that he's a bastard from the
north and any other Bass He's over there.
Might think all right, cool. You know, that's one of ours,
getting getting that top spot. You know, also writes, I bet
there might have been a number of flowers, the wall after the
first, and maybe also third. Blackfyre Rebellion is because
of the support as a Daemon blackfyre who survived and bent,
the knee would have a lot of them been sent to the wall.
And some of them couldn't have been ransomed by their family
members because they were broke afterwards or the ransom had
been set really high in some cases, it's just get them away
to maybe in 10. To get them to sense of wall,
you know, I'll put a really high Ransom on this and maybe they'll
just not be able to afford it and that'll get this guy to the
wall which is where I want him. But still that said, John was
mocked for being a bastard on the wall right away.
Even though it's a place where your past and birth aren't
supposed to matter. Clearly does even in the very,
very first scene we see waymar Royce, get a job leading that he
didn't deserve because of his family, right?
And it wasn't even asked for more matches.
Felt like he kind of had to because he wanted to make sure
we kept. He kept coming support from
these houses. Well if I offend them, then they
don't ship us, more men and more swords and coins or whatever.
I'll just they need everything food, whatever, they're going to
send, they need it. So they don't push back, maybe
against the treatment of bastards or anyone on the wall
because they need the support of these Noble houses in ways that
they don't like to admit your past isn't supposed to matter.
But it does, that's a Target. Not a goal.
It's not the reality, right? It's Finding its marketing.
But to be fair, it does matter Less on the wall but it still
does matter and alliser Thorne. Maybe is a severe example
because he really hated John in particular, not just bastards
but I think that it's probably both Rusty, flowers is our next
bastard on the wall. Our first wall flower, like read
Robert flowers, Rusty, suggest another color, apart from
tonight's watch rather than black and he's the only
character named Rusty in all the books.
No, Rusty's in Fire and Blood. No other Rusty's in The Song of
Ice and Fire his house doesn't come up.
There's no sigil or colors to help narrow down narrow down,
which is kind of the way of a nice watch.
A nice watch. Does kind of appropriately
obscure their their birth house. And the Nights Watch is also
even less adorned than the kingsguard King's Guard.
Also supposed to get their family but we know they have
their pins that kind of denote what house they came from.
And John trusts him. That alone says a lot.
Why does John trust him? Well, it's because he hasn't
with him at least one time that it really mattered.
He can only have trusted men around him.
Well, we're have the code here in just a second, setting that
up, it's not just what the John trusts him.
It's what he trusts him for specifically.
The specific action, the John brings him in to help him with,
which is when John goes to confront Janos, slynt about his
refusal, Janice is refusal to follow orders.
First in the matter of taking over Castle greyguard, he brings
back up big men. He trusts quote, John found
slint breaking his fast in the common room Ser alliser Thorne
was with him and several of their cronies.
They were laughing about something.
When John came down, the steps with iron MN and dollar a said
and behind them, Molly horse, redjac crab, Rusty flowers and
Owen the oath. Three finger, hob was ladling
out porridge from his Kettle queen's men, king's men and
black Brothers sat at their Separate Tables.
Some bent over bowls of porridge others filling, their bellies
with fried bread and bacon, John saw, pip and grenn at one table.
Bowen Marsh. At another, the air smelled of
smoke and grease and the clatter of knives and spoons, echoed off
the vaulted ceiling. All the voices died at once.
Lord Janos John said, I will give you one last chance.
Put down that spoon and get to the Stables.
I have had your horse saddled and bridled it is a long hard
road to greyguard. Then you had best be on your way
boy. Slint laughed.
Dribbling Pours Down his chest. Grey guards.
A good place for the likes of you.
I'm thinking well away from decent Godly folk, the mark of
the beast is on you, bastard. You're refusing to obey my
order. You can Your order up your
bastard. Czar's said, slint is jowls
quivering man. You really just fit the
character Janos slynt so well, these you just wear my jowls
quivering. When I say yeah, I looked over
huh. Quivering away?
What a great moment though, that is such a powerful scene.
You know, what happens next to you know where it goes.
It involves Flint losing his head with some great dialogue
and O in the of getting his boots with some less great
dialogue. But very entertaining.
Notice, how John's bastardy and Jigeon is where slint aims his
verbal blows his Prejudice. He expects other people to agree
with him, easy to miss how that insult bastard.
Also lands on Rusty flowers. It wasn't directed at him but he
uses bastards and insult when Rusty flowers.
Also bastard is standing right there yet.
No one else in Jon's crew of eight is so it would be
singularly pointed at him and John.
So John and Rusty have something important in common.
I think that matters, I mean, John amongst finding people, he
can trust, I'll on the wall the day to end the day out.
The people he'd learn that he can count on these to have a
starting point. Something, a basis is not the
best thing to have in common because it's a thing.
You get treated negatively over. But that's a bonding thing.
You can Bond over. Hey, yeah.
We were both treated the same way by our family.
Yeah, you know how it is. This is something that only they
would know like a lot of other people on the wall would not
have had that experience. Very unique sort of.
Yeah, some of them were lower born than them.
So they have their own upbringing things that were
negative for them or challenges, they had to face, but this thing
unique about being raised in a noble household while being
excluded from that, you're so close to it yet.
So far from it. There's also benefits, of
course, as what's-his-face the armorer guy.
What's his name? Donald MacDonald?
No, ya don't know. That's right now is like, who
are you talking about? He taught taught John about.
His own prisons like look, you got trained at a castle and
Rusty may have as well. So that's just something kind of
unique they have in common given that Rusty was brought in as
muscle though, that also implies, he's a big mrs.
He's a big dude brought in as muscle.
He maybe got less mocked for being a bachelor to his face
than John people do. When you're a big man, you don't
get mocked your fear face as much maybe behind his back.
Sure. Who knows.
But, you know, maybe he was mocking me.
As a boy before he was large, family might have mistreated him
when he was 5 years old. You may have been large 45 but
still small. Yes.
Maybe he committed a crime. May be joined on his own.
We have no idea, maybe he was coerced into joining.
Like Sam will even know how old he is.
So a lot of guesses here, he might have been, he may have
need to suggest, maybe it's even possible.
He joined the Nights Watch as long ago, as the Robert's
Rebellion. I tend to feel like John's men
are more of hit close to his age but they don't all have to be
Next is Gennifer flowers like Rusty.
We have no real idea which house he's a bastard of other than the
obvious narrowing down to the reach.
See just as Rusty was trusted by John or is trusted by John
benjin. Trusted j4 flowers think about
tight corn half ends. Ranging group was Gennifer
flowers was part of benjin's picked Squad ranging with him
and six other. That's right.
Benjin's group was seven, strong him and author.
Seem to be the two that almost escaped.
J4 and author. Were the two bodies found near
the wall. The ones that were brought into
the wall that later Rose in the night and John saved, Lord
Commander from author and its authors acts that appeared to
have killed Jennifer. Since off Thor was a dormant
white and so is jafer that may explain his death author, IE
author died while they were escaping, maybe he was already
wounded and then he died and then Rose in the night and slew
his former companion. Which implies j4 was the last
survivor of benjin's party, unless of course author was not
dead when he slew j4 in which case, Jennifer was the one to
turn into a white first and that's why author axed him.
But the evidence is stronger that Jennifer was the last
survivor because there wasn't any other fit mortal wound on je
furt or just the big acts blow. So, what stopped him the second
time if he rose and attack his friends, It's also jaffer's hand
that travels all the way to King's Landing in a jar with Ser
alliser Thorne. But it rots before he can get an
audience with Tyrion. It turns out that's because
Tyrion was being petty, he was delaying sir Alistair and
definitely in part because he didn't know how he was going to
handle, sir, Alistair and court with this hand.
And like, what's he going to do? If he takes it, seriously, it
looks bad for him. If he takes it, not seriously.
Looks he just didn't know how to do it, but he also kind of liked
being Petty Dallas, because of what else or was to him, but
that's still kind of a minor tragedy, isn't it?
Because it was a chance for maybe the information about
what's happening in the wall, to get to somebody that would
actually care Tyrion. But unfortunately, even though
was clever for jeor Mormont to send Alistair away from Castle
black because of his fight with John, he was the absolute wrong
choice to treat with Tyrion given tyrion's.
He already existing history, was her house her to be fair to G,
or he didn't know, Tyrion would be the one in charge.
No tearing. Would be acting hand at that
time. So a lot which enhances the
tragedy of it all tragedy, often is circumstantial.
No, he's not on the wall, it's in his name.
So let's talk about Wally's flowers and he served in the
north. It's close to the wall.
His mother was a high tower and his father was an arch faster.
So that's a little unusual. It's usually the father that is
the source of the noble blood or both.
And that's kind of the reasons are kind of obvious, why?
But I'll explain them anyway. Nobleman can get away with
sleeping around far easier than well, then anyone, right?
It's not just noblewomen, it's anyone other than nobles with
even more power, right? The proximity is at least easy
to understand to sit it on the heights, our right.
That, that part B. I wonder what the Lord high
tower of the fuck the time thought of the Scandal.
This isn't just a matrix and archmaester but it will be his
daughter. I don't know.
How does he handle this? No idea.
The prevailing theory in the fandom is that the archmaester
father? Here is walgrave.
The senile one pay steals from their names are similar and the
timeline does support it but it's a little bit of a stretch,
but it's kind of because we have nothing else.
Go on? Yeah.
I think the name thinks I don't know.
I think it's kind of very pointed to me.
Yeah, we have this mystery of walgrave.
Having had a lover, like, I don't know.
Yeah, it fits. You have to be the case but like
if we if we're never going to know one way or another, it's
one of those were like if you want to believe that this is
true because it gives it more depth to you or ads whatever
answer we have. Yeah, I don't know that we're
ever going to find out anything more about walgrave.
And or about well, you know what I mean?
Like, might not know, we might not know, we might not know, but
the Citadel Arc is kind of just starting.
It may not be a very long one, but we are going to get more
Chapters at the Citadel from Sam and who knows.
We'll see. It could happen.
So this one is sort of different to from are other examples, most
of our other examples because he's a maester nothing short of
warrior. Nevertheless, at least one
person blames him for a lot of islands.
This is the greatest and or radius of the gray rats if we
can believe lady, Barbara Dustin, which we shouldn't
entirely though we should partially.
It's a bit of a trick or a challenge to figure out exactly
what's true and what isn't but problem is lady doesn't very
biased. Here she claims while he's LED
Lord Rickard Stark into many of his bad decisions regarding the
South. So this character is at the
heart of many of the theories in the Northern Conspiracy genre
and barley because of Lady Dustin, this bothers me.
This is a recurring trait of the nobility that they all hold
themselves in such high esteem and above everyone else.
That, if there's a problem, it must be a subordinate and not
the decision maker, not the person who actually has the
final responsibility. She blames the Meister, not the
Lord, who has the Final say com'on com'on.
This is that annoys me when the decision maker doesn't get the
blame? It's like no.
The advisor is like what the master gets the blame you.
Come on lady Dustin. But if she's right or at least
partially, right? Because maybe he lied, maybe he
made up data, maybe he invented things to encourage, Lord,
Rickard to make decisions that I would agree is cause for censure
cause for criticism. That is that does put a lot of
the burden on him, it's still put some of it on Rick hard for
not like double-checking, or what have you, but you're
supposed to be to trust your maester?
I kind of get I can kind of get maybe that going over his head.
But again, back to the lady, Dustin side, she's making him
sound like some kind of Meister Lee bittersteel, like, oh, he
kept pouring poison into Damon's ear until he rebelled.
And yeah, it was The Whispers of bittersteel that cause like,
yeah, this is the maester bittersteel here.
Here. So, I think she's exaggerating
while he says roll, but maybe it's a very specific where her
Grudge comes from. Remember, a big part of her
grudges that she didn't get to marry Brandon Stark, she may
blame Wally Stark for that or while he's the master, Wally's
for that decision on Rickards part as well, say maybe Wally's
is the one who said, no, Brandon needs to marry Catelyn, need to
marry Tully, given the what's happening out in the world, but
maybe she just perceives their, maybe that is full head.
And on her part maybe she just completely invented that in her
head and while he's just the most heat, it was like, help the
Meister weigh the choices and her help.
The Lord make the choices and she might be greatly
exaggerating. What he did.
Anyway, let's take a look at her quote just to see where she's
out here. Let's just kind of revisit it
before he forged his chain Meister.
Wally's had been known as Wally's flowers.
Flowers pill, Rivers snow. We give such names to baseborn
children to mark them for what they are.
But they are always quick to shed them.
Wally's flowers had a high tower girl for a mother, an arch
maester of the Citadel. For a father, it was rumored the
gray, rats are not as chaste as they would have us believe.
Old Town maesters are the worst of all.
Once he forged his chain, his secret father and his friends
wasted, no time dispatching him to Winterfell to fill.
Lord Rickard ears with poisoned words as sweet as honey.
The Tully marriage was his notion.
Never doubt it. He she broke off as Roose Bolton
Rose to his feet. Pale eyes, shining in the
Torchlight. George got us with the old
Interruption trick again. Damn, you.
Is that one earlier? She implies he was in.
He was there in that quote earlier she implies he was
hiding his bastard. Heritage was he?
I mean he joined the maesters because that's just how it
works. Like she's implying, that he'd
be joined the Mesa. Others just to hide his or that
was a major incentive for was like oh that's the way for me to
hide my heart. He's like she says that because
she thinks it's a thing. You should hide her Prejudice is
just really overflowing here. She's both prejudice against
this particular meister and Masters in general.
So it's kind of a double win, the bitterness the Prejudice.
It's all on display here and but she did some digging to find out
who is like how hard could that have been like I don't think it
was really that big a secret lady Dustin.
Right? That's so funny.
They're definitely Rebecca think of sometimes I've seen people
are like, have some conspiracy theory and I'm like, yeah, it's
obvious. We all know like I can get the
height H wanting to hide that because it's a height and I like
we're hiding that that our daughter had this kid tight.
Our not tied to our hide, but they're hiding.
But they were, they were Want to hide that their daughter had
this kid. Not so much that this kid exists
because he is a maester, you know and it just flowers that it
doesn't again we faced this problem.
The last name flowers isn't suggest Hightower it suggests
Hightower is one of hundreds of possibilities is at best.
You know and look at that prejudice the way he phrases it.
We give them those names to mark them for what they are.
Like oof that language is roughly.
Dustin geez. Wow that is couch.
Yes. It's hard to take because of the
extreme. The Prejudice here, it's hard to
take all of this at face value. Like she could be exaggerating.
She could be putting the blame on the Meister when really Lord
Rickard was all about it, his notion, you know, he's like
actually I want I think what, about a thali marriage and why
like flowers like actually that's not a bad idea sir.
Probably a record was like that bar.
Breed of Barberie is real bitter.
Yeah, like her. Yeah.
It's a very, very one-sided take hear from her.
So we really have to take it with a grain of salt but that
but we should not discarded. I'm not saying throw it away.
Don't throw. Go away the take but give it the
proper context. I do hope we learn more about
this situation, either through the northern stuff, or through
the southern stuff. Both of them are possible.
Because weighty Dustin could talk about this guy, some more
for some reason or a different person could when did Wally's
flowers die, like maester Luwin, I guess took over for him
probably but there could have been another major in between
but probably not, probably not luan's.
Probably been there a while, Lou and delivered catlins children.
I mean, yeah he's probably been there for a while he's probably
went Lewin. It probably went directly from
while he's flowers to Lewis. So yeah, there may be more for
us to hear about it. Maybe other someone else.
Winterfell could have might have a take on him.
I'm not sure who most of Winterfell was killed by sea on
and Ramsey, but not everyone will see.
We'll see. Next up, we have flower flowers,
a pair of tyrells, who are, of course, already ripped by the
flower, the famous Golden Rose. Apparently inappropriately like
so many other characters here today.
These two are set to join an organization and even matches
their house colors. How perfect?
Which is kind of meta they get to sneak right in this like they
fit right in the tyrells taking over so many organizations,
getting their fingers in so many different places.
Their thumbs on so many different scale.
Al's and just grabbing offices titles and power wherever they
can and soul. As a whole, they have the most
of it, garth's flowers, Elder, son of Garth, the gross Garth,
the gross is mocked for his flatulence, but he was seneschal
of high guard for a long time, which cannot be an easy job.
He must have some Ministry of skills or they just have someone
really bad in charge, but I suspect the former not the
latter. That doesn't mean his sons have
any of these skills at all but given their father is a steamed
in the family, they rise with him to a certain degree and more
so because it doesn't seem like he has trueborn children.
We don't know of any other children of Garth.
So he only has these two bastard sons and they seem to follow him
around. They might be a little like, his
muscle like on when Pica though he's nothing like on when Peak.
As far as we know, just kind of in the, it's smart to have
muscle with you, not in the muscle, can be used to
intimidate people. Doing like one.
Although there may be some of that angle to it as well.
I'm not sure. For example, though, first of
all, these two were probably nights because they're Tyrell
ish and they're indicated to be Warriors.
For example, when Garth was going to go to King's Landing
the two sons Garcia and Garrett, we're going to join with him,
come with him and join the Gold cloaks.
So yeah, being at court brings opportunity if Garth the gross
Goes to court to be master of coin and your cousin is the
queen. Your other cousin is the hand.
Yeah, you're at your nephew actually Garth the grosses
nephew is Mace Tyrell. So very close to the queen hand.
Yeah. Now if you're gar sir, Garrett,
your father is now master of coin or is about to be and your
cousin is hand. Your other cousin is Queen.
There's a lot of opportunity there for you, you might think,
even if they look down on you about as a bastard, No, they
still there's so many offices and titles, they still would
have something for you. Even if it's just officers in
the gold cloaks which you know, doesn't sound so fancy next to
Queen and hand of the king, but it's something.
So Garrett, flowers is the younger of the two if people
don't trust a bastard brother because they usurp their
trueborn brothers and younger brothers.
Also sometimes usurp their eldest.
What does that say about a younger bastard?
Brother? Is he doubly untrustworthy in
the eyes of some? This is the first pair of
bastard Brothers. We've had today.
Hey, it's tomorrow. Unlikely to be the inverse that
you put next. Wishes that maybe he's more
trustworthy than his older brother.
Because there's no title for him to usurp.
He's so far down the line of succession is almost like, well,
this guy. Yeah.
What's the point, you know, unless he's got that like Little
Walter attitude towards, you know, that I'm 42nd and line?
But I'm gonna be I'm gonna get there like, okay, dude, that
doesn't see. Most people probably aren't like
him, you know. Yeah.
What inheritance is there to usurp their yeah there's no
land. There might be some wealth but
that doesn't pass. Like land.
In other words, Wills unit can be divided more equitably when
it's coins. You know.
It isn't just all for one. So I'm curious how Garson
Garrett get along or if they don't and that would be more
interesting maybe from a story perspective if they don't but as
the sons of Garth the gross yeah there's more to the story.
Let's get into the gold cloak aspect of this which is funny
because of their sigils right? Bastard, sigils are reversed
tyrells have gold roses on green so a bastard Tyrell would have
green roses on gold. A gold cloak matches.
I'm perfectly in a symbolic way. They're kind of camouflage.
Their Thorns are concealed beneath their cloaks tyrells
just planting more flowers here and there watching them grow in
the direction they want, mmm watered with blood.
Another angle to consider here is something Cersei is and was
concerned about which was The Growing Power of these tyrells,
how they snatch up so many offices and titles.
And then they push the limits of the authority, granted them by
those new offices and titles and use those powers and those
offices, of course for the benefit of house Tyrell.
Humorously it was Tywin who invited Garth the gross to take
tyrion's places master of coin. But Cersei canceled that on
tywin's death only to appoint sir Giles Roz be who has now
passed on. His were right and is replaced
by Sir Harry Swift, who is terrible at his job, and
probably most other jobs as well.
So Garth didn't come to King's Landing after all though.
Mace is still pushing for his appointment.
He Stills like, Harvey Swift is bad.
Let's have someone else in this job, but Cersei seemed to have
regained. Some measure of control.
So she may be able to hold mace off on that.
We'll see, let's not remind Tywin of that one variation on
the land. The clever origin story though,
this, Same story that leads us to denote all the reach houses
as the seed of bastards, given Garth greenhand.
'S impregnating, all the women. If the reach back in the day,
one of the stories says that land.
The clever was one of those bastards, a bastard, son of
flurries the fox or Rowan gold tree.
Now, they don't believe that in the west, but they do in the
reach at least in some places. So while we're not going to have
a Section dedicated to land the clever because he's not big
enough topic. We've talked about him in our
casterly, Rock episode. We won't explicitly, add him to
the list of famous bastards from the reach.
But keep him in mind. He's got a foot in there.
He might be a famous bastard of the reach.
No one ever called him land flowers.
Maybe flowers wasn't the title for reach bastards back then as
we said before, but he belongs in this conversation.
And if he is, truly a reach Badger, he's one of the most
famous of all even though his ultimate end was nothing to do
with the reach. But the many children of Garth
greenhand, brings us right on back to the tyrells and their
political encroachment, the many children of house Tyrell,
because part of the reason, they're able to encroach so much
at King's Landing is there. So many of them you can't
appoint all your friends and family to offices.
If you don't have that many friends and family.
Well, it's nepotism on a grander scale because there's so many
tyrells delay, even the Lannisters can't do this unless
they Start, including the Lannisters Atlantis park because
that actually, then they may be could yes, makes me think of
you. Remember my most iconic Crusader
Kings 2 game ever. I just kept breeding tyrells,
and I put a Tyrell and every Lord Paramount, see there was
the Tyrell of the north of the west of the.
So just everywhere we counted, at one point there were over 700
tyrells. Yeah, third of them looked
Targaryen. Yes.
I can really see how I like yeah you can really do a lot with
you. There's a lot of mouths to her
that really big read like bunnies look crappy Yeah, like
flowers. Yeah, wow.
Really flower is kind of an appropriate flowering.
They're growing strong, and all that.
Yeah, there's so many of the girl was up to take that much to
get them all growing like. Yeah.
They work, they work. Well, as a group, they look
great as a group like a single flower looks awesome.
But like a field of golden roses, it looks awesome.
They're going for sewn together like a cloak, like Loris had a
cloak of golden roses. I mean, you know, small group of
flowers looks great, too, a bouquet of, okay.
Yeah, great. So hence, any size 12, 2312 I
love flowers. Wow, is a che.
I don't understand what to say is saying he right.
There is no hinting going on. Let me just move on obliviously
here. So yeah and the phrase or maybe
another ones that come to mind that could and have tried to
grab a lot of offices at once, they're not having as much
success with that, but they could give and how many of them
there are there's not there's not as powerful as the tyrells.
They are also aren't overlords of Largest of the Seven Kingdoms
in the region like the tyrells are so yeah, the tyrells are a
lot more powerful, Grace, that's kind of obvious.
And a lot more attractive. And by average, I'll even
mentioned Laura's being in the kingsguard when I mentioned, you
know, Queen Margaery and hand mace, you know?
So yeah. All right, and it's and again
because there's so many of them, it's easy to miss these lesser
offices. They're getting their hands on
these lesser offices can be of great importance at the right
moment. Right there not like day-to-day
having two sons in the gold. Cloaks is no big deal but Janos
slynt funny that we've had two reasons to talk about him today
because he's not a reach mastered but the city watch
disaster. Third, no, no, the city watch
doesn't have a lot of power normally, but when two sides
are, duking it out within the confines of King's Landing or
the red keep as discussed by Ned and Little Finger here.
Quote, I must have the gold cloaks, the city watch is 2,000,
strong sworn to defend the castle, the city and the King's
peace. Ah but when the queen proclaims
one king and the Hand, another whose peace do they protect Lord
Peter flicked. The dagger with his finger
setting it spinning and Place round and round.
It went wobbling as it turned. When at last it slowed to a
stop, the blade pointed at little finger, why?
There's your answer? He said, smiling, let's
understand what Ned got wrong here.
He was not fooled by this. This part, he understood very
well. He understands military stuff,
he can count two thousand men on his side.
Basically many couldn't lose because the Lannisters had like
100 or 200 at most, he would easily be able to overwhelm
them. And so the point that he didn't
expect to find Fight, except they had those two thousand and
they're 200. That's the part that got wrong.
There's like, 2,000 men were not on his side.
He just thought they were to recall, important loyalty to
Damon was during the dance of the Dragons.
He who gave them their gold cloaks in the first place and
when Unwin Peak was busy appointing, his people all over
a small Council and kingsguard. He didn't put two of his men in
the gold cloaks. He placed 500.
Wow. Yeah.
Like I was saying he wasn't sneaky about this.
He's like okay 2000 gold cloaks. I'm gonna put 500 my man,
they're all quarter of them so definitely don't sleep on the
importance of the tyrells. Gaining influence.
If not control over the city watch because it could matter
like the gates are being held by the city watch.
Do an invading Army like Stannis.
Well, what about all it takes is one Commander loyal to the other
side to open one of the seven Gates and there you go.
And if it's not the tyrells gaining influence, Doesn't have
to be. That it could be somebody else,
right? Someone else could get influence
over the city watch. And use that to take of the
city, like someone in aegon's group.
Someone in young, Griff's group, right?
Varis, finding the right person to bribe in order to get the
young grips Army inside the City without having to storm the
walls and losing lots of men. So Ned trusting little finger
was a poor choice though. Honestly, he might not have had
many other options which brings us to our next character who
definitely didn't have many other options that Lea flowers.
Poor girl that was taken by urine are on warned, her not to
trust your own but what good would it have done?
Not to trust him which he have escaped?
Probably not. Although maybe, I think she
would have just been become the bed safe to someone else then.
Yeah, just like, you just been at for AG, one of his lesser
underlings and just would be dead.
Probably, it sooner not that I blame are on here.
He's just like panting, you still saying, like, don't trust
him. I'm technically, she could have,
she could, she could be in bed with your on and not.
Him because whereas she clearly, she's like all enamored and
smitten with him. Yeah.
You know she could be like, you know, she could, she could split
this. Throw like talking Greyjoy was
killed, you know, like the red crack and like she has that
opportunity like she could kill him.
She's never gonna do that. He's just giving the jewels
that. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. He was, she was totally
besotted. Yeah, and this is where would
you even gone? Like she's already taken over.
She's on an island. Like it's not like, even if he
wasn't around it would have been hard to escape but she's on an
island with the ironborn like Rulers of the sea like she's no
choice, no Escape. So basically being naive magnet
so that she's only going to suffer at the end.
Yeah, I mean I your envelope handsome to is my impression.
Yeah. For what it's worth.
Like, you know, like I can see how she I mean, is will get
into? I mean, she was like, she's
literally the Cinderella story right here, right?
And like really yeah, I guess I get why she grasped onto
anything to get her out of her law and life even if she like,
yeah, I get it. You're totally right to bring up
Cinderella because yes, Cinderella was mistreated by
her, many trueborn sisters and then with the tables were turned
on them. All right, and that's what
happened here and that's what Drew you're on to her in the
first place. Besides our Beauty, like she's
apparently, really good looking. As part of you, that's the first
thing you're on noticed but she suggested because she had been
made into a servant by her family that they become servants
to them. Which is exactly the Cinderella
thing you're saying there. Yeah, that's a, that's really
perfect. So, she is a bastard house.
You it, which is sort of why I put them in this group because
their vassals to the tyrells, although not anymore because
they've been conquered by the ironborn, but we don't expect
that to stay. Even your on doesn't expect that
to stay. You're on expects to lose the
shield Islands. It's one of his poison gifts,
given to Newt the barber. So, technically, Newt, the
barber is the Lord of Oakenshield right now, but yeah,
that won't last and failure. Flowers are self was misled by
your arms. Poison gifts, poison gas was
being one of our recent Let's check that out.
If you want more on that, you're on enabled.
Her revenge on the huge family that he wants were terrible to
her. But they weren't psychotic.
They weren't like beating her, I don't think, but it was neglect,
it was really bad. It was traumatizing for sure.
I would think. And structural cruelty starved
for love. Start for acceptance, you're on
seized on, he's a master at seizing on those Grievances and
turning them to his own ends. This was a microcosm of that.
He what she didn't realize is that he was worse than them.
She it's kind of such a cruel thing to have to be face was
like this. This guy's actually worse than
the family that mistreated you all your life.
Obvious misogyny here too though, even male bastards are
given a chance to prove themselves with a sword.
If she had been born a boy, the Hewitt's probably would have
given him a chance to sword fight.
But since she was born a girl she missed serving girl like
what you know? So like she didn't even have a
chance to. She could have maybe wouldn't
have been good with a sword would have ended up in the same
place. Anyway, she didn't even get a
chance. Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, if
she'd been a boy, she might have been bad with sword but then she
could have gone a bit of Meister gone.
Maybe the wall wouldn't have been great either, but But
either way, she would have had a few options.
Whereas, yeah, just waiting on your well-to-do siblings.
It's like it, because like, it's even worse to me.
It's not just that she's a servant.
Girl, it's the she's a serving girl to her own fan her family.
Yeah. Like that's what makes it like.
Yeah. Cause it's not like I think that
necessarily like these Nobles are owed their law in life.
Like, I don't necessarily think that like, yeah, class our
system is right, you know. So I don't want to say like, oh,
give follow your her, do ya. No.
I mean and because she's lives in this isolated even for the
reach. Like she lives in a kind of an
isolated area living with the Hewitt's and on the island,
right? So there wouldn't be as many
visitors wouldn't be as much outside culture coming in but
it's a she's a real even though she's our only female flowers.
Example, she's a real example of like, we saw how bad John had
it, but John had it way better than this.
I mean, even before you're on, like, take your on out of
equations, obviously, there's no comparison.
If you do even John being stabbed to death, isn't as bad
as this, but she serves in his example, Apple for all these
other likely mistreatment of female bastards, we just don't
have as many examples to go by but we can assume that a lot of
this is similar the mistreatment that John got.
Yeah nothing compared John wasn't made new servant you know
none of these other ones were made into service that we know
of. Yeah you know I have to wonder
like yeah if John's girl or whatever and meted brought a
little bastard girl or whatever, one of Catelyn would have
treated her poorly still. If Catelyn would have made her a
sir. I'm just so curious, how you
felt Threatened, it would have felt it would have, is a much
bigger problem of Catalan mistreats of female batch
because there's no worry about cause there's no worry about
claims. The like, wow, you know, she's
just hurt me as being cruel. But yeah, when she sees my
stone, just the hearing her name Stone sets Catlin off.
Yeah. Guilty.
She's like his because it brings her back to John and mixes like
makes you feel mad and guilty because she's part of that how
she's treated John but another part of her is like well this is
how the world works and she's like it just it just sets her
off just now yeah hearing The name me a stone like meeting me.
I just bought like there's like basso catlins.
Yeah, Collins real wrapped up about that stuff.
That's so much of its out of her control.
So yeah. So if Ali doesn't know, valleys
even more sheltered and shelters, the wrong word but
trapped in a microcosm of a smaller worldly view yet she
still serves as a great example. A tragic example of what's
probably the Fate? It's honestly it is probably the
fate of a lot of men who aren't good with swords.
They probably do end up in similar.
Pull it places? Like aye, sir.
Answer something like yeah but those ones don't get mentioned
in the history books and and they don't have this sort of
outcome, like failure, would because no Lord is going to go
grab them, you know, like gnats. Well, there would be maybe some
exceptions to like a gaylord or something.
Yeah, the satin or something. But most of the men, I most, you
know, obviously most Lords are heterosexual or bisexual.
Yeah, more likely to happen to him.
Most Lords, are bisexual pharmacies So even more cruel
here, another angle to this is the Hewitt's are going to be
ransomed by the tyrells of highgarden from knuth.
The Barn at the barber kept, most of them alive or all of
them alive and so he'll get some money for that the tyrells as
overlords. That's their responsibility and
that can afford it. Let's be honest, I roles are
rich as hell. So they will definitely do that.
But because Valley of flowers was taken away.
She will not, she will not get Ransom, she will die most likely
alongside Are on strapped to the prow of the silence and to make
it even more worse, she is pregnant with your on bastard.
Who clearly doesn't care about because he's strapped her to the
ground and cut her tongue it. Yikes.
Yeah roof. That's some bad stuff.
Bad stuff. Indeed, I guess that would not.
That would be her child to be a pike, I guess.
Yeah. But her child won't be born was
like, yeah. Yeah, it's like what a is.
It a two bastards have a child? Is it when they're not married,
is it? I don't know how that works.
I mean, Iran has not one but maybe think of that our last
section is called fake flowers. Not the plastic variety, not the
Radiohead song. The steel varieties, steel
flowers because our last example is a character who is truly just
getting started in life and has a lot in common with Jon Snow
where we started this episode with talk of him, he is where he
is because of Jon Snow and his story.
Has so much in common with him. I'm talking about Eamon not
maester aemon but the child of dalla and Mance rayder the child
with the most complicated identity.
He is not truly a bastard of course the case with John as
well as in my not truly be a bastard.
I just have the bastards name to hide his identity Jon Snow.
Maybe John Targaryen or aegon Targaryen her a mentor dr.
Gero knows but he may not be a snow because dalla and manse
were married to so Dale. Mantis child is not a bastard by
the Laws and traditions of the Seven Kingdoms, even if their
marriage might not be recognized in the same way, I certainly
recognize, I think most people would, but a man steal song, his
master masquerading, not under his own will, but his Guardians
have decided that he is was going to be swapped with craster
and Gillies child who are not married.
And Gilly is going to tell Sam's family and Horn Hill that Sam is
the father. So Sam is the official father.
So No, he's going to be called a man steal song or a man battle
born as a nickname as the officially you know.
It's a lie story that he's a child of a rich nobleman to
maintain the Sherrod. He would be a Min flowers,
right? The Son of Sam Sam Sam.
Who ha ha ha. Yikes.
Son of Sam tarly so he would be a.
He'd be aiming flowers. Officially.
That would be his like legal name.
Even. Yeah, even though.
Yeah. He's not really.
Yeah, that's funny. Which is so great for like
that's that Jon Snow to probably he's not really a bastard but
he's going to be treated like one because officially his
disguise includes that title that name.
So that's pretty cool. Good way to end it.
My friends and listeners fellow West dorian's by miss any
flowers. Let us know the pretty sneaky.
Those flowers can be hidden. You know you never know where a
flower might grow wild, flowers Wallflowers, black flowers, blue
flowers, red. Hours.
Well, talk about baking flour. We didn't talk about making hot
pie needed to get in here somewhere but we don't know his.
We don't know his origin story and that's true.
There's a lot of people out there who are bastards in our
Noble bastards. So we don't want to leave them
out but there's too many of them and they're a lot harder to
track down. For example, dunk is technically
a bastard most likely but we don't know, either of his
parents are right. Like I mentioned virus earlier,
probably a bastard. He's a children of slaves.
Were those slaves, married? Probably not.
That's not usually how their masters allow things to go
anyway, but we're sticking to stones and snows and hills, and
Sands, and storms, and Pikes, and Waters and rivers, and the
Obscure other examples like, Of hall or the other ones that
haven't blanking on at the moment, we will return to
discuss those other ones in a future installment of bastard
Squad, as well as discussing other aspects to Life as a
bastard in those regions or in general.
There's a lot more comparisons to make a lot more characters to
bring into the fold because there's a lot of bastard
characters in this world will also at some Future Point.
Discuss some medieval comparisons some real-world
comparisons. Not just in Europe, the places
and other places. Well, because that would be
interesting to see. Just get an idea what that's
like a frankly. Don't know what that's like as
I'm saying it. I don't know what, you know, a
bastard of a Chinese emperor, what their status would be, the
probably depends on the time and place and other factors but they
also would marry like 50 women at once and those would all be
legitimate. That's a whole different thing
anyway and that would probably apply to some stuff in essos as
well to help us understand some of that stuff.
So, plenty more to go on this topic and Many other topics that
we have for you in history of Westeros.
Bar trivia answer. The last person with a bastard
named to appear on Page in a dance of dragons, is Jon Snow
kind of a trick question. Their purpose is actually don't
get that and then who got more in their head and they went and
tried guessing other people. And but yeah, we did get
multiple people. Who guest John cool.
Yeah. Because there's none in Kevin's
epilogue chapter, the chapter 4 that is Danny 10.
Which is first a i scrolled back to being the first person to
guess what? Christina que tiene que well
done. Well done in darkness.
Shame. And then some people really
well, let's see. Yeah, I checked the book and
stared, John's the stabbing chapter is the last time a snow
flowers, sander etcetera, appears on screen.
And I'm serious. And is mentioned.
Yeah, it's an epilogue but you got in it.
Yeah. That is why people Scott into
the debate about what is a peer mean because I like someone else
said my Marius and but technically she doesn't appear.
That's an astute guess even though, technically not the
right answer. But good job.
Anyone who thought of nymeria because he was mentioned, that's
a good call. All right.
The next week is trial by Theory a couple episodes.
We mentioned throughout along the way here, a poison gifts,
episode mystery Knight episodes where Glendon flowers is
featured as lots of about bastardy or just a general dunk
and egg episodes. There's other things there
because Duncan's often treated a lot like the way a bastard would
be treated. There's some overlap there, Age
of Heroes episodes are relevant because of Garth.
And some of these other folks like lann the clever, which of
course brings to mind, the casterly rock episode that we
did probably some other ones as well.
Well, you say goodbye. Can I give you a cat?
You could give me a cat. That would be cool.
Is there a cat nearby to be on my lap?
I'm gonna get up and hand you to him.
So you keep saying, if I'm going to stand up and give this, yeah,
I will thank you to those of you who came to watch live.
If you were here today, we always appreciate that.
It's it adds a bit to the discussion.
Sometimes, you'll catch things that we wouldn't have.
That allows us to include it in the episode, which is better,
then including it in a future episode, because hey, why not
get it all in the end of the umbrella of belonging?
Here's Ava coming to get in my lap like a good boy.
Thanks. Big time to Nina for all her
help and takes we. Like I said, at the beginning,
we did a lot of looking into sigils to try.
Maybe figure a few of these things out for guesses, and just
help me just refresh myself on the sigils.
And clearly, I need that from time to time, when I can't even
think of, you know, Donald noise name is, I forgot lens sell a
few weeks ago to. It's like I know who it is.
The name is just slipped. That's why I'm doing a reread
right now to get myself. Shake off the rust, the rusty
flowers. Yeah.
Thanks as well to Joey. Jesse and bran for helping us
with our intro, right? That helpless doing our intros
are songs and Michael far field is included in that we discuss
the video stuff. We have had a variety of intros
over the years that we use for different structured episodes
depending on the topic in style. So we have had a lot of great
help from our friends on that and we appreciate that, we will
see you all next week for more. And you know what to do, in the
meantime Bell, are we weeks?