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Prince Baylor Targaryen, AKA 
Baylor Break Spear. 

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A hero, a legend, beloved and 
accomplished, and all the more 

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memorable because he died well 
before his time. 

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And that death left a huge hole 
in the Seven Kingdoms. 

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Though his father was a good 
king, he was called Deron the 

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Good, after all. 
The realm looked forward to the 

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day when Baylor would take his 
place. 

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They weren't, you know, eager 
for Deron to die. 

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But the outlook for the Seven 
Kingdoms had rarely been so 

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upbeat. 
The future was very bright. 

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There was a sense of optimism 
knowing he was next. 

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You have a good king, followed 
by someone else who seems to be 

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able to fill his shoes well. 2 
kings in a row of good quality, 

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maybe even a good one followed 
by a great one, was what some 

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people saw coming. 
Rarely have we seen such a 

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thing, if ever it was needed. 
Following the terrible rule of 

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Baylor's grandfather Aegon the 
Unworthy, and the strangeness of

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his own namesake, Baylor the 
Blesseds time not long before. 

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Not to mention Baylor the 
Blesseds older brother Daron the

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First, the young dragon who had 
led the realm into failed wars 

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with Dorn. 
Baylor breaks Beer, on the other

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hand, had gained a reputation in
the first Blackfyre Rebellion, 

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as a defender of the realm, as a
victor over rebels, as a man who

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helped turn the realm to peace 
rather casting it into war. 

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By the way, it's awfully 
confusing that we have Deron, 

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Baylor, then Deron, and then 
Baylor. 

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They're basically Yikes. 
I had to check my notes several 

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times, yeah. 
Yeah, it's no wonder these 

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characters always have their 
nicknames included, because 

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that's what you wouldn't know 
which one they are. 

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But the era Baylor was born into
is 1. 

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We've said many times it falls 
amongst the most interesting 

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created by George for Westeros 
with the Dance already on TV 

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along with the Song of Ice and 
fires those versions. 

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It's arguably the most well 
developed era that isn't yet on 

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TVI say yet because, well, at 
least some of it will be on TV 

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through the Night of the Seven 
Kingdoms adaptation. 

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So we will see Baylor on screen.
Of course, that will only be a 

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small snippet at the end of his 
life, and he deserves more. 

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So today we will cover his early
life. 

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Think of how beloved he was, how
terrible his loss was throughout

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the realm, how deeply that was 
felt, and realize to have that 

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reputation, for that loss to 
have been felt so greatly. 

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He must have been quite a guy to
have all that regard in the 1st 

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place. 
But not everyone loved him, 

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though he was a great warrior. 
He favored peace like his 

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namesake. 
But peace isn't always popular 

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in Marshall Westeros society and
some people don't like too much 

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perfection that can engender 
jealousy or envy. 

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Well I guess jealousy and envy 
are pretty similar. 

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Others just misliked how Dornish
he looked though. 

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So popular but also hated. 
A perfect Prince but also one 

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who faced racial animosity. 
Charismatic, but also someone 

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who may be engendered jealousy 
here and there. 

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Other people wanted to be like 
him. 

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Other people wanted him to die. 
So you know, a lot of 

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dichotomies here. 
And we'll explore all that and 

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more on this episode of History 
of Westeros podcast. 

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Hello and welcome everybody back
with another fun historical 

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character study today. 
You excited for this one, Sean? 

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You got a beverage ready for 
you. 

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Look at that brands. 
You get the Branzig shirt on 

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last week you said you forgot to
wear it this week. 

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Here we go. 
Yeah, trying to make up for it. 

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It was more fitting for the the 
Ned Stark, Ned Stark youth 

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episode, I think, but I don't 
think I've worn it on stream 

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yet. 
So here we go and I am excited. 

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I do have a beverage here. 
I found a bang. 

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I found a Blue Raz bang at the 
grocery store. 

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So I snagged it up, mixed it 
with the Raspberry sparkling ice

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and the protein make drink so 
you could. 

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Say we're razzed today, huh? 
It's a purplish drink, which I 

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think is fitting for Targaryens.
It's like the, it's like their 

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eye color, you know, there's a 
variety of purples that come in 

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their eyes and I'm not sure what
purple that is, but it's more of

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a medium purple. 
I think about a pale purple, so 

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I didn't want to interrupt your 
your intro, but I had a couple 

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thoughts, a couple shapes or 
whatever it is the. 

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Course of it, yeah. 
Yeah, at the beginning you said 

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that his death left a huge hole 
in the Seven Kingdoms. 

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Also left a huge hole in his 
head. 

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True, a little more sentimental,
though, I want to point out that

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the feeling of loss that you 
point out that the Kingdom had, 

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you know, that this sort of like
optimism that people had for 

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what a great person and leader 
and everything that he was and a

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terrible loss that was to 
individual people close to him, 

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into the realm as a whole, but 
also to the reader. 

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When you read that scene, it's 
so devastating. 

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I was to me, I imagine most 
people were really one of the 

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saddest moments in the whole 
story. 

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So I I think it that's worth 
noting too. 

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I don't know if that's like a 
worst level or a metal level, 

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but but a level I think that's 
worth considering. 

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I agree. 
I mean, that's why I. 

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Thought, I thought. 
It was worth mentioning right 

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away, even though we're not 
going to get to that part of his

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life in episode 1, you know, but
it's the, it's spoiler alert. 

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It's the right way to start 
because, you know, his tragic 

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death is is, is you're right. 
That is part of why he's so 

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remembered. 
And the way George wrote it is 

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particularly memorable and hits 
hard. 

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So yeah, that's part of why I 
think he's a he's a big part of 

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why he's compelling figure. 
The way he died just kind of 

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permanently sets it in stone 
like that. 

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So yeah, everybody welcome. 
We're as I just said, this is a 

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two-part episode. 
We're going to take plenty of 

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time describing him. 
The early life is very full. 

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We're going to get to up about 
the point where he earns his 

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nickname. 
So it's a pretty apartment place

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to stop. 
I think it sets up the Black 

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Fire rebellions later. 
Good shout out to our friend 

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Good Queen. ali.tumblr.com is 
her blog. 

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That's Anina's blog of course, 
and we usually shout out the 

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most recent post, but we shouted
out the most recent post a few 

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days ago. 
So I'm going to go back and 

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point to 1 before that, which is
a cool what if question. 

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What if Jamie had discovered 
some of the ways that Robert had

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been treating Cersei and his 
lost his temper and and killed 

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him? 
What would have happened? 

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Would Tywin have been able to 
protect him from those 

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consequences as he was protected
from the consequences of killing

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Aries, which you know, the 
double king. 

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So he's like, look, he's already
double king. 

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So he can do that. 
That's who is his name, right? 

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He can do that. 
So if anyone could save Jamie 

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from those consequences, it 
would be Tywin. 

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So that is an interesting 
question. 

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So you'll have to check out good
queenalley.tumblr.com for Nina's

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take on that. 
This episode was voted on by 

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patrons. 
Baylor got 39% of the vote. 

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Visenya got 30%. 
Lyman the Sea Lion, the Last 

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King of the Hightower got 16%, 
and so did Maria the Yellow 

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Toad. 
So you want to join Patreon and 

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get involved in the voting? 
Well, I highly encourage it as 

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well. 
As usual, if the episode ends 

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and you are still feeling like 
you want to stay in Westeros, 

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you still want to be where 
you've been here and enjoy 

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further stories, Well, we've got
you covered with suggestions for

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00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,000
topics related to this one. 
That'll be at the end of the 

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episode along with the answer to
this trivia question, which is 

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George loves alliteration and 
nicknames. 

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It makes sense. 
Alliterative nicknames are more 

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memorable. 
That's true. 

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In real life, sometimes you get 
a nickname and doesn't stick 

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because it's just not snappy 
enough. 

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But some names that they're fun 
to say, that they're memorable, 

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well, they stick. 
Baylor Breaks Beer is a good 

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example. 
His namesake, Baylor the 

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Blessed, they have the Double B 
sound. 

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Or Baylor the Blessed's 
alternate, less flattering 

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nickname. 
Baylor the Befuddled. 

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Baylor Breaks Beer didn't have a
mocking name that I know of. 

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That just goes to show it says a
little something about him 

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currently living. 
A Song of Ice and Fire character

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is named Baylor and they also 
have two nicknames. 1 is 

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compliment, one is mocking just 
like this. 

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What are those nicknames? 
Yes, yes this has been a long 

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time coming. 
It's always been a bit of a 

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missing piece from our long ago 
created Black Fire series, which

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focused on the Black fires, but 
not entirely. 

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We did one episode on Deron 
himself, Deron the good Baylor's

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father. 
So this is probably almost 

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certainly the most important 
character from that time period 

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that we didn't give a dedicated 
episode to. 

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And now we're going to make up 
for that lack by doing 2 

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episodes on him. 
And that's fitting because 

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there's that much to say, which 
further highlights how much he's

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deserved an episode for a while.
And in terms of tone, this 

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episode will feel a bit like the
Eamon episode, which is also two

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parts. 
A lot of talk about his early 

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life because the time period he 
grew up in was so interesting. 

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This is about 30-4 years later. 
That's Eamonn and Baila were 

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born 34 years apart. 
We talked in the Eamonn episode 

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about how he would have been a 
inspiration, a figure for other 

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boys of martial nature, 
especially other Targaryens, to 

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be like. 
And arguably Baylor is the one 

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who most succeeded in being like
the Dragon Knight. 

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I say that with a few caveats 
because we don't fully know what

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the Dragon Knight was like. 
In some ways, there's a lot of 

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unknowns there, and the same 
goes for Baylor. 

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But what we do know is very 
positive. 

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It's, it's something I have to 
remind myself sometimes that I 

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think of this as just being like
a completely different time 

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period, you know, this Dunkin 
egg time period. 

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I think it's completely 
different from the Game of 

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Thrones, you know, the main 
series time period, and each of 

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them are completely different 
from the Dance of Dragon time 

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periods. 
I think of them as just being 

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completely removed and separated
from each other. 

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00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,480
But there are contiguous 
characters. 

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It's not that far removed. 
You know, it's neat. 

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00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,040
It's it's weird to think about 
that sometimes. 

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Yeah, and of course this is just
like the Eamon episode as well. 

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We don't have Fire and blood to 
help us cuz Fire and Blood 

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covers the period right before 
that. 

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In fact, as we mentioned at the 
time, Fire and Blood basically 

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ends with the birth of Aegon and
Amon. 

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00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,280
So let's get started here. 
His birth was in 170 during the 

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final year of Baylor, the 
Blessed reign. 

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Technically Baylor reign into 
171, but it was literally like a

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week or two into the year that 
he lives. 

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So basically 170 was his final 
year. 

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Technically 171 was as first 
born to King Dara or Prince 

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Deron, later King Deron. 
He was immediately pretty high 

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in the line of succession. 
Baylor the first was King, his 

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uncle Viserys was next, then 
Aegon who became Aegon the 

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Unworthy, then Deron, then baby 
Baylor. 

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That's a straight line right? 
That would only change if Baylor

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had kids. 
But Baylor died really soon 

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after our Baylor was born. 
By the time Baylor was 2, he 

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would have already moved from 
fifth in line to third in line 

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because Baylor the blessed died.
And then Viserys, too, ruled 

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less than two years. 
So things change pretty quickly.

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00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,520
So among other things, he was 
expected to be a king one day 

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from very early on, Nina says. 
Although I don't know to what 

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extent the succession question 
was certain at the moment of his

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00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,400
birth that King Baylor did have 
the three sisters. 

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And while the dance hadn't 
exactly validated that a woman 

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could rule as queen, it wasn't 
also exactly settled either. 

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Maybe it became settled over 
time. 

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00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,760
As more and more time passed and
more and more women have been 

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00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,320
passed over. 
It's arguably still not settled.

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00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,280
I mean, these, these are 
Rainiers grandchildren we're 

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00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,080
talking about here. 
So it's it's we can't assume 

225
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,680
that everyone had just been OK. 
Women don't get to inherit 

226
00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:41,000
anymore. 
That's it, period. 

227
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,480
It probably probably was not the
sentiment, even if some people 

228
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,760
did feel that way, even if a lot
of people felt that way. 

229
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,600
Nor do we know what Baylor 
himself had intended for the 

230
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,880
succession because he knew he 
didn't have any sons or 

231
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,920
daughters. 
What did he want? 

232
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,680
It was never known. 
Or maybe it was hidden by 

233
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,280
Viserys after his death. 
After Baylor's death, maybe they

234
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,040
kept his his will on the down 
low. 

235
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,360
Maybe a little something like 
what Cersei tried to pull off. 

236
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,240
But but in this case it would 
have been more successful in 

237
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,240
terms of keeping it under wraps.
Either way, we don't know what 

238
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,480
Baylor would have wanted and if 
it would have gone the same way.

239
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,400
So it's the point being we can't
be entirely clear on what the 

240
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,600
discussion looked like. 
But no matter what, Baylor would

241
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,160
have looked like a strong 
candidate, and even more so 

242
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:29,440
after Baylor and the saris were 
dead. 

243
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,920
But I remember talking about the
idea that because it seemed like

244
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,520
Ned and branded his brother 
Rickard, we're kind of 

245
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,320
progressive. 
They were doing some some very 

246
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,800
non standard things given the 
tradition of of the time that 

247
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,120
that starts especially. 
But the quote UN quote 

248
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,800
traditions of the Targaryens in 
this more modern time are even 

249
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,280
less established. 
And there was even the point I 

250
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,360
think we're making in that 
episode was that there have been

251
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,200
a lot of other changes recently,
just the Dragons being gone by 

252
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,360
itself, like some precedent that
might have been set in some some

253
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,720
council a few years ago. 
You can't really expect that to 

254
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,040
hold true when the Dragons go 
away and it's all the other 

255
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,600
changes that have come. 
Maybe is a default that that 

256
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,240
certainly seems to be how it 
went. 

257
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,960
But, but I, I, I agree with you 
at that time, it's it's not an 

258
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,800
absolute by any means. 
And of course, there had also 

259
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,800
been the gradual shifting within
the Targaryen family culturally 

260
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,360
towards more matters of the 
Faith, partly because of King 

261
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,120
Baylor and a few others. 
Daron himself the father of 

262
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,000
Baylor Break Spear was was very 
pious. 

263
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,880
And joining with Dorn who don't 
have this first son birthright 

264
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,800
thing going on, which is another
angle of shifting that can 

265
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,000
happen. 
Yeah, and the joining with Dorn 

266
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,040
is a big part of what's going to
happen in this episode today. 

267
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,120
That, that whole way that plays 
out during this as well as on 

268
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,240
top of that, we have the, the 
fact that it's not just a 

269
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,880
cultural shift because the 
Dragons are gone and they're 

270
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,440
getting more into the matters of
faith. 

271
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,320
It's also a power thing, as we 
discussed in the Eamon episode 

272
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:00,840
as well. 
That's they, they leaned more 

273
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,120
into that. 
For someone like Eamon, it was 

274
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,880
more heartfelt. 
But for some Targaryens, it was 

275
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,320
just a matter of maintaining 
power. 

276
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,800
Like what we need to be cozying 
up to the faith more because we 

277
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,720
need their, their power, their 
authority level that we no 

278
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,880
longer have with the Dragons. 
We need their endorsement more 

279
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,160
than ever. 
And that means playing along, 

280
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,120
being part of the faith, being 
the Champions of the faith, 

281
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,040
showing that they're at the top 
of that ladder. 

282
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:31,200
And Daron was a big believer in 
Baylor the Blessed's faith and 

283
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,480
virtues. 
So he very likely passed that on

284
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,200
to the son he named after 
Baylor, the Blessed, right 

285
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,920
before Baylor was even dead. 
So, and recall much later at the

286
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,480
end of this episode, we're going
to get to this moment. 

287
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,840
Daron's going to say, Baylor, 
your work is done like in front 

288
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,560
of the crowd very memorably when
Dorne officially joins the 

289
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,600
Kingdom through marriage. 
So he really sees himself as 

290
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,160
carrying on Baylor's works. 
And of course, he's going to 

291
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,360
impart a lot of that to the son 
he named after that very king, 

292
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:06,880
right? 
That seems very straightforward.

293
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,400
Darren's wife, of course, was a 
Martel, Mariah Martel. 

294
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,000
That's important, too. 
They're bringing Dorne into the 

295
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,320
realm. 
This is his wife. 

296
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:19,240
And of course, Baylor is half 
Dornish, so that's huge, but 

297
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,720
also part of why people didn't 
like him. 

298
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,400
Some people didn't like him 
because he was Dornish. 

299
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:32,200
Now it was also this peace 
treaty that King Baylor made in 

300
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,360
the 1st place that allowed this 
Prince, the Prince of Dorn, to 

301
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,000
make these arrangements in the 
1st place. 

302
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:44,040
And then the later second 
marriage between Darren's sister

303
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,560
Daenerys and Maron Martel 
himself. 

304
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,000
So this first marriage between 
Daron and Mariah set up the 

305
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,480
second one and all these other 
things in between made that even

306
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,480
stronger, Nina writes. 
It's maybe a little bit of an 

307
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,560
insult or push back against 
Aegon the Unworthy. 

308
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:04,800
Daron's naming his son Baylor is
choosing the figure that is so 

309
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,920
much unlike his own father. 
And this is relevant in a lot of

310
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,440
ways because Aegon, of course, 
spends so much of his reign 

311
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,839
trying to undermine Deron, 
saying, oh, you're not really my

312
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,000
son, you're the son of the 
Dragon Knight trying to under 

313
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,240
which of course is very relevant
today because trying to cancel 

314
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,000
Deron's inheritance would be 
cancelling Baylor's as well. 

315
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,400
Now, no one calls Baylor a 
bastard because there's no 

316
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,960
question that Deron and Mariah 
were married. 

317
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,680
That was a huge public marriage 
and there's no question about 

318
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,800
their parentage. 
But if Darren's cut out of the 

319
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,320
line of succession, then Baylor 
would be too. 

320
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:47,400
Even being true born now, the 
event that actually sort of 

321
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,440
quote took King Baylor's life 
was when Damon Waters was born, 

322
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,960
AKA Damon Blackfyre. 
He was of course born to Dana 

323
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,760
the Defiant, who would have been
Baylor King Baylor's wife had he

324
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,840
not set her aside. 
Technically, as I said, he died 

325
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,920
in 171 because he fasted in 
response to Damon Waters, his 

326
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,720
birth. 
And that fast, which was 40 days

327
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,040
long, spanned the end of the 
year into the beginning of the 

328
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,600
next year. 
Now, of course, there's debate 

329
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,400
other whether the fast killed 
him or whether Viserys actually 

330
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,400
poisoned him for making crazy 
decisions about attacking the 

331
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,760
North and the Iron Islands and 
things like that. 

332
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:33,720
So it was a pretty big deal. 
And either way, the timing was 

333
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,800
important, Nina says. 
I wonder what King Baylor 

334
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,360
thought of this infant name 
saying he didn't have much time 

335
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,320
to think about it because he was
only alive for a few months. 

336
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,360
Was he glad to see the peace 
peace plan coming into into 

337
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:46,800
play? 
Because they needed these 

338
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,400
marriages and these children to 
be born in order for this to 

339
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,800
work. 
Like if you have a marriage to 

340
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,920
Dorn and it produces no 
children, well, it's not going 

341
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,440
to work nearly as well, right? 
If you have a Dornish, half 

342
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,040
Dornish, half Targaryen Prince 
that ascends to the throne, that

343
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,360
is a much better result for this
plan than just a marriage that 

344
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:06,960
produces no children. 
And then maybe you're back to 

345
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,760
square one because no longer a 
marriage, the marriage is no 

346
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,320
longer like holding things 
together. 

347
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,240
If you have children and a 
family, well, that's a big deal 

348
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,440
to hold the peace. 
So he probably thought pretty 

349
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,160
well of that, but then 
immediately became disappointed 

350
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,760
or sad or whatever the emotion 
was that led him to fast for 40 

351
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,840
days and then die. 
I can't really put myself in 

352
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,000
that headspace so I'm just like,
your guess is as good as mine 

353
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,880
y'all? 
Whatever he thought at the 

354
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,840
beginning of that fast would not
have necessarily been the same 

355
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,840
or rational after 20 days, you 
know? 

356
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,320
Yeah, that's true. 
Regardless, this is quite a 

357
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,800
setup. 
You have Baylor, an infant 

358
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,200
basically are very young when 
his namesake died, so he never 

359
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,120
really knew him but certainly 
lived in his shadow. 

360
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,600
And Damon Blackfyre, who I, you 
know, joke about as being the 

361
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,480
killer of Baylor the Blessed, 
killing baby, killing kings as a

362
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,320
baby from the cradle. 
He's born only like a couple 

363
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,000
months after. 
These two were just constantly 

364
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,680
compared throughout their life. 
And this is part of why they're 

365
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,520
born at the same time, basically
in the same era, at the same 

366
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,280
court, with a lot of the same 
influences. 

367
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,560
Around them and yeah, and it 
just goes from there. 

368
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,360
So what a great start. 
What an interesting start. 

369
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,800
And they're the only two that 
can measure up to each other in 

370
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,600
terms of genetic lottery because
they both just hit the jackpot 

371
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,360
with being big and strong and 
smart and really good looking. 

372
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:34,560
And of course, Baylor's birth 
was even better than Damon's. 

373
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,440
But they both had really high 
birth, excellent, near perfect 

374
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,880
Princess, born within months of 
each other, but with a lot of 

375
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,880
contrast, despite the high 
quality, quote, UN quote of both

376
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,280
of them. 
They're both physically great, 

377
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,280
but they're pretty different. 
Damon actually had the silver 

378
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,160
hair and purple eyes. 
Baylor looked more Martel. 

379
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,560
And yeah, even though they're 
both Princess, I don't know if 

380
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,480
you you would, they're still 
pretty far apart in terms of the

381
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,360
line of succession and the way 
they're viewed because of their 

382
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,080
upbringing. 
Like 1's a bastard, but one's 

383
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,200
got 2 Targaryen parents, the 
same one who's the bastard and 

384
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,880
the on the other hand, the other
was higher in the line of 

385
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,120
succession, but he looks doesn't
look like a Targaryen. 

386
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,280
And yeah, so it's a lot of just 
comparable extreme qualities 

387
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,560
here. 
It's pretty interesting. 

388
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,920
You can see why it would get 
competitive or maybe not. 

389
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,600
This is probably too complex of 
a question. 

390
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,600
How far apart were they in the 
line of succession? 

391
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,360
How far down would it have to 
go? 

392
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,800
That would be a lot of true born
Targaryens would have had to 

393
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,040
die. 
And since Baylor ended up with a

394
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,800
lot of brothers and then his 
kid, he had kids and then his 

395
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,880
brothers had kids. 
I mean his youngest brother with

396
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,920
Makar, and that's where Egg and 
Eamon and another Deron and an 

397
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,920
Areon all came from. 
So yeah. 

398
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,280
Even before that, I don't know 
if it makes it more or less 

399
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,000
complicated, but like at birth, 
how far separated was Damon? 

400
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,880
Well, Aegon, it's super. 
It is complicated because Damon 

401
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,040
wasn't acknowledged as Aegon's 
at first. 

402
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,840
Dana the Defiant wouldn't admit 
who the father was until much 

403
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,520
later. 
So they wouldn't have seen him 

404
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,200
in the line of succession like, 
at all necessarily. 

405
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,080
And that's like he was the only 
one, literally the only male of 

406
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,160
Targaryen blood left potentially
even then, because even because 

407
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,320
of like a year later, Agor was 
born. 

408
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,400
Now, Agor is younger than the 
Damon. 

409
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,880
This is bitter steel we're 
talking about. 

410
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,840
Whoever he knew he was a Aegon 
the Unworthy son. 

411
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,080
Even though Damon was older, 
Agor was the one that would have

412
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,960
been in the spotlight because he
was the oldest acknowledged 

413
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,480
bastard son of Aegon when that 
that state of affairs was for 

414
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,560
several years. 
So yeah, so it is complicated. 

415
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,320
Like maybe again, still probably
complicated, but say at the 

416
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,000
point that Aegon legitimize the 
bastards. 

417
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,960
Yeah, then. 
He all the brothers wouldn't 

418
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,560
have been born yet. 
All the sons and brothers 

419
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,440
wouldn't have been born yet. 
But even still it would have 

420
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:52,040
been like 5 deeper, 20 deeper. 
It's tricky too, because when 

421
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,400
you legitimize someone, do they 
just come in line as of where 

422
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,840
their age is or do they fall to 
the back of the line or the of 

423
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,200
the ones who were born 
Targaryen? 

424
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,640
It's it's that's unclear too, 
because technically he was still

425
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,480
born after Baylor by by like a 
couple of months. 

426
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:07,720
So he would still have been 
behind Baylor. 

427
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,200
But if you want to get it down 
to that level, if he was 

428
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,760
legitimate and the 
legitimatization counted, he 

429
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,520
would be right behind Baylor 
until Baylor had kids of his own

430
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,120
right. 
So he would have come before 

431
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,680
Baylor's younger brothers, Aries
and Regal and then Makar, two of

432
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,960
whom did eventually inherit the 
throne. 

433
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,240
So yeah. 
So maybe more of a claim. 

434
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,520
Not that Robert Brathen ever 
tried to make this claim, but he

435
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,560
would have had more claim than 
Robert had as a Targaryen right.

436
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,720
Maybe, yeah. 
At that point, at that point, 

437
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,600
yeah, maybe less down the road. 
Once all the kids and brothers 

438
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:46,920
are born, then he has less 
claims. 

439
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,480
Yeah, I guess that's true 
because because Damon, if we're 

440
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,040
still saying he's legitimized, 
then yes, he would be ahead of 

441
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,000
someone like Robert who's got a 
cousin relationship, just in 

442
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:55,920
cousinship. 
Yeah. 

443
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,240
So yeah, Yeah, it does get 
tricky and see why these things 

444
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,320
often get decided by sorts 
instead of and why they want the

445
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,520
suggestion to be clear. 
It's like, well, we can't even 

446
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,400
have questions. 
Yeah, so. 

447
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,040
And of course, who caused so 
many questions? 

448
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,640
Hang on the unworthy. 
He made he. 

449
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,640
Instead of making the line 
secure, the king himself set it 

450
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,080
up to be unstable. 
Not just by questioning his own 

451
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,600
son's parentage, but by 
bestowing black fire on his 

452
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,600
bastard son Damon, and setting 
all that up. 

453
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,240
But but we're not to that. 
Having a bunch of bastard sons 

454
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,320
in the 1st place. 
Also. 

455
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,760
He just did it. 
He just. 

456
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,240
The smorgasbord of things you're
not supposed to do this game. 

457
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,760
He did them all. 
He was really good about doing 

458
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,480
the the most of the worst things
possible. 

459
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,560
Is the worst best king? 
Best, worst king. 

460
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,600
You got to be proud of 
something. 

461
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's the 
winner. 

462
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,800
Yeah. 
So as much as we're making 

463
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,240
comparisons to Baylor and Damon 
here and how easy those 

464
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,640
comparisons flow, you got to 
think they were being made in 

465
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,160
world, too. 
I mean, we talk like people love

466
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,840
to gossip. 
These are the two most famous 

467
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,320
Princess. 
Maybe not when they were first 

468
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,960
born, but even this to the 
stories of their birth would be 

469
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,480
worthy of gossip. 
Like you hear the new Prince was

470
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,480
born and the king starved to 
death over it and the other ones

471
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,080
named after him like whoa, you 
know all. 

472
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,160
But did you hear his hair is 
brown? 

473
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,160
You know, it's like, oh, you 
know, and the other one, we 

474
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,920
don't know who's dad is they 
won't admit it's probably Aegon,

475
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,160
but we, you know, could be 
someone else, you know, So 

476
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,160
people already gossiping about 
them when they're babies, like 

477
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240
this is how their life started. 
So these are in terms of 

478
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,120
comparing the lives of like 
human beings to other human 

479
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:32,480
beings. 
These, these, these people are 

480
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,840
very incomparable because except
to each other, because there's 

481
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,560
just very people have lives like
this. 

482
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,160
This is like having a family 
that's already famous, it's 

483
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,000
already on TV all the time, and 
then you have babies on it with 

484
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,960
strange circumstances with drama
surrounding it and death 

485
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,720
surrounding it. 
And like, yeah, people are going

486
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,760
to talk about that a lot. 
So a huge open question, though.

487
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960
And this is something that we 
just can't possibly know until 

488
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,160
maybe some screenwriter or 
George or something, someone 

489
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,280
decides someday if this ever 
hits the screen or is is more 

490
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,120
stories are written about it. 
George May writes about this in 

491
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,920
Fire and Blood, for example. 
That's perhaps one of the most 

492
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,440
likely. 
Fire and Blood, too, that is. 

493
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,200
What did Damon and Baylor think 
of each other? 

494
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,560
We know that plenty of people 
would pit them against each 

495
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,200
other through gossip and and 
through expectations and just 

496
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,400
through being similar. 
But what did they actually 

497
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,160
think? 
Were they competitive of each 

498
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,360
other? 
I ask that now, even though they

499
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:35,000
couldn't have possibly felt that
way when they were babies, but 

500
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,520
since they were already set up 
this way when they were babies, 

501
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,840
it was like the world they were 
born into. 

502
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,560
Or maybe almost expected them to
be competitive, or maybe to 

503
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,240
expect them to work really well 
together. 

504
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,080
I'm not entirely sure. 
Ultimately, it would come down 

505
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,680
to them, even though there would
be other people, whatever other 

506
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,680
people say and whatever they 
gossip about, the lots would 

507
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,200
come down to how they actually 
felt about each other and how 

508
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,960
they behaved in public toward 
each other, which is not 

509
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,280
necessarily how they really felt
because they were both known to 

510
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,280
be very chivalrous. 
So if they sort of hated one 

511
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,560
another, they might not have 
shown it. 

512
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,800
They might have kept that under 
wraps, you know, because it's 

513
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,240
this is an era where you're 
supposed to like behave really 

514
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,760
well towards your opponents. 
And chivalry was particularly 

515
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,960
high on the list of of how to 
behave. 

516
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,360
You know, it's always been 
relatively important in the time

517
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:21,800
of the Targaryens, but more so 
now because of the increased 

518
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,480
impetus on piety and following 
the Seven. 

519
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,640
So that is important set up, 
even though a lot of it doesn't 

520
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,960
play out till they're older. 
Let's talk about what it was 

521
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,800
actually like the year they were
born, the Red Keep circa 17171. 

522
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,640
Because as impressive as young 
Baylor and young Damon and 

523
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,920
eventually Agor and Brendan, who
were born not too long after 

524
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,960
this, it was Amon the Dragon 
Knight who was the one 

525
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,040
recognizes the finest knight in 
the realm. 

526
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,280
He would be the road map, the 
guy to emulate. 

527
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,760
And this is kind of towards the 
end of his career because he's 

528
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,120
going to die young ish too. 
Amon died around 4344. 

529
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,600
So yeah. 
So Amon would have been about 10

530
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,360
years before that now, so about 
3433 peak of his prowess before 

531
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,320
he started to get older. 
And while his legend is still 

532
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,720
fresh, he'd been to Dorn. 
He had, you know, he had his 

533
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,880
fancy helmet. 
He had been given Dark Sister. 

534
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,360
He had his knighthood from a 
young age. 

535
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,720
Yeah. 
No, there's pretty much no 

536
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,120
doubt. 
This was the guy that they want 

537
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:22,840
to emulate, especially because 
Baylor's namesake was rescued by

538
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,640
him from the pit of Vipers. 
I mean that story they would all

539
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,000
grow up here in that one amongst
like that's like a top five 

540
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,400
story they grew up hearing. 
I could I'd feel confident with 

541
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,240
that guess because what a great 
story and it was recent. 

542
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,040
I mean, let's be honest, that's 
crazy. 

543
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,920
That story. 
It's amazing and it's kind of 

544
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,560
interesting, right, because 
Baylor and Damon seem 

545
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,760
chivalrous, as I say, but agor 
bitter steal. 

546
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,880
Nah, not so much. 
Not very chivalrous and neither 

547
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,200
did Brendan blood Raven. 
Not very chivalrous either. 

548
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,800
Not like a bad guy, but not not 
a chivalrous guy either. 

549
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:52,720
And so that's kind of 
interesting. 

550
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Maybe the guys who were a little
closer to the legend of Eamon, 

551
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,360
or maybe just for other reasons,
story reasons, random reasons. 

552
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,880
But it is interesting that the 
ones who came along a little bit

553
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,800
later didn't have this quality 
while these ones dead. 

554
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,000
Yeah. 
And they were the ones closest 

555
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,920
to achieving Eamon's both level 
of fame and skill. 

556
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,320
And again, the warrior culture 
aspect was at a high point as 

557
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,680
well. 
It wasn't just a piety that was 

558
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,520
at a high point, it was the 
proving that they could still 

559
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,320
rule without Dragons. 
So it's really important for 

560
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,160
them to showcase their Marshall 
abilities like Darren the young 

561
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,200
dragon tried to do by invading 
Dorn, which he brought Eamon 

562
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,520
along with him. 
Smart choice. 

563
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,400
I mean, kind of an obvious 
choice, but it made a big 

564
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,120
difference. 
Worth noting that Baylor and 

565
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,320
Damon were such good warriors it
might over shadow the fact that 

566
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,120
Brendan and Bittersteel were 
pretty good warriors too, right?

567
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,800
They weren't like the greatest, 
but, but they just happened to 

568
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,560
be competing with the greatest. 
And they were, like we pointed 

569
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,920
out with Ned and Brandon, 
doesn't matter. 

570
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Like you're a little bit younger
and that means everything at 

571
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,360
that age because one or two 
years is a big deal when you're 

572
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,440
that young. 
Like the difference between 12 

573
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,520
and 10 is huge in terms of your 
physical development, especially

574
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,760
when you have two guys who are 
developing faster than normal. 

575
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,920
So they're like, yeah, like Agor
did develop faster than normal 

576
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,160
too, but those other guys had a 
two year head start and they 

577
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,760
were probably a little better at
the finish line anyway. 

578
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,760
And Brendan was a little small, 
but he wasn't a big robust guy. 

579
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,120
He was good at fighting, but he 
was more quick than strong. 

580
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,520
Now the saris the Second 
probably had a relatively smooth

581
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,160
transition to power because he 
had been Hand, but of course 

582
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,640
that short period of stability 
would be so. 

583
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,440
It was so early in Baylor break 
Spears life that he would hardly

584
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,440
know about it, hardly remember 
it, nor would he actually 

585
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,640
remember much of King Viserys 
the Second, his great 

586
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,200
grandfather, because he died 
when he was about two. 

587
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,200
Nina wonders whether his mother,
Mariah Martel would have had 

588
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,160
opinions on the accession of 
Viserys the Second on on one 

589
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,120
hand, Viserys becoming king put 
her husband and now her son on 

590
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,880
the path of the throne. 
She was now on track to become 

591
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,360
queen, which is a good 
development for the Martel's, 

592
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,000
you would think. 
And from Dorn's political 

593
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,720
position. 
However, to become king, Viserys

594
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,400
had to disinherit his nieces, 
right? 

595
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,480
Which as we just said, maybe 
wasn't a settled way of doing 

596
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,520
things just yet. 
And so that rankles if you're 

597
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,600
from Dorn, where women aren't 
passed over at all. 

598
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,720
So that's like a big kind of a 
big deal. 

599
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,080
She may have been expecting 
that, but it may not. 

600
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,240
Another wrinkle to throw into 
this whole matter of succession 

601
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,720
and and women inheritance is 
that we have garnish mixed in 

602
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,880
here now and they expect women 
to inherit and they might push 

603
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,080
for that rule to be re 
established or say, hey, we like

604
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,120
it's worked for us really well. 
Why not have y'all do it here? 

605
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,360
It also has prevented a lot of 
civil war because it isn't just 

606
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,760
about gender equity. 
It's about avoiding war because 

607
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,920
the line of succession is a lot 
clearer when you don't skip 

608
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,840
people. 
So there's a lot of possible 

609
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,520
feelings and attitudes that 
could have that could be thrown 

610
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,280
into the the mix to the the 
blender of of court feelings 

611
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,200
these days and what attitudes 
were being espoused by different

612
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,520
people. 
And this is what Daylor and 

613
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,240
Damon would have grown up in. 
It's very important to consider 

614
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,600
because later Deron's proximity 
to Dorne and Daylor's Dornish 

615
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,840
blood will be a huge point of 
fixation for the opposition. 

616
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,320
The rebel party that forms that 
eventually becomes the Black 

617
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,640
Dragons of this era. 
Not to be confused with the 

618
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,960
Black Dragons of the Dance era. 
They don't have anything in 

619
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,000
common other than that color and
the fact that they were 

620
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,000
competing for the Iron Throne. 
That's a pretty big deal. 

621
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,800
So much of this early upbringing
came during the reign of his 

622
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,640
grandfather, and the Princess in
the in the Maiden Vault would 

623
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,120
have been freed upon the death 
of Baylor 2. 

624
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,320
So those three would also have 
been around during Baylor's 

625
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,240
upbringing. 
And those are his ants. 

626
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,880
So they would, you know, talk to
him, help be part of the village

627
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,280
that raised the child sort of 
thing. 

628
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,240
They might have liked him 
because he's, you know, next in 

629
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,320
line or or eventually in line. 
And who knows what they thought 

630
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,520
of him. 
There's three very different 

631
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,160
women here. 
Dana the Defiant may not have 

632
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,800
liked him because she's the 
mother of Damon Blackfyre and 

633
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,760
looks at him as someone that 
took her place in the line of 

634
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,160
succession. 
But and her sisters might have 

635
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,000
felt similarly. 
On the other hand, Rayna was 

636
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,680
were very pious and they have 
favored the the pious faction of

637
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,480
Targaryens rather than her side 
of things. 

638
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,680
But these are pure guesses and 
probably didn't have a huge 

639
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,840
impact on Baylor all together, 
but just worth mentioning. 

640
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,760
Sure. 
A couple thoughts here. 

641
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,440
In the same way you were 
wondering earlier about and 

642
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,520
maybe we're constantly wondering
about what relationship Baylor 

643
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,400
and Damon had with each other. 
You know, it's also interesting 

644
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,080
to think about how these women 
or other characters, you know, 

645
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,000
we're talking about these women 
at this moment, you know, being 

646
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,600
freed. 
How how do they feel? 

647
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,120
And how would they communicate 
that to Baylor and other people?

648
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,040
Like they were just put in jail 
pretty much just because they 

649
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,680
were women, right? 
But the person who did that to 

650
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,400
them was on some level trying to
do the right thing and starved 

651
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,239
himself to death doing so. 
So do they come out of that like

652
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,400
angry? 
Do they want vengeance? 

653
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,639
Do they find understanding? 
Do they think they got 

654
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:20,480
vengeance? 
Do they forgive him? 

655
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,320
Do they preach forgiveness? 
Do they? 

656
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,960
It's weird to think the types of
different reactions and, and, 

657
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,800
and lessons that someone might 
learn from that and how Baylor 

658
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,679
might take it. 
And I feel like as a default, 

659
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,000
he's a forgiving guy. 
He's a merciful guy. 

660
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,960
He's not looking for vengeance. 
He's not looking. 

661
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,639
You know, I wonder if they felt 
similarly and that rubbed off on

662
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:43,920
him. 
Maybe other people too. 

663
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,280
Not true. 
Yeah, it's it's tricky. 

664
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,560
Yeah, you it's it's hard to say 
you're right. 

665
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,600
Like with such a wide variety of
personalities and such a double 

666
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,640
sided scenario, or you're right,
Baylor, the blessed, he was 

667
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,360
clearly believed in what he was 
doing, even though they they 

668
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,000
wouldn't, couldn't, they 
couldn't have liked being locked

669
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,600
up too much. 
Although maybe Reyna wasn't so 

670
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,720
so mad about it. 
Yeah, I mean, that's The thing 

671
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,120
is they probably all had 
slightly different reactions 

672
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,560
that someone might have been 
depressed about having gone 

673
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,600
through that, and some might 
have been angry. 

674
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,920
And yeah, Reyna might have been 
like, oh, it was for it was for 

675
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,920
the best. 
It was right. 

676
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,920
It was it was it. 
Was for the realm, yeah. 

677
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,320
You know, they all might have 
had a very different reactions. 

678
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,080
But and Elena is the one we 
haven't even barely mentioned. 

679
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,240
She's the one that had the 
longest life. 

680
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,800
It sounds like the most 
interesting of them. 

681
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,760
She had so many different jobs 
and she was highly intelligent. 

682
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,400
She's someone that would have 
been around. 

683
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,640
She I mean, she outlived Baylor 
breaks beer. 

684
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Of course she outlived Baylor 
blessed all of those guys did. 

685
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,680
But she someone will have to 
reconsider in Part 2 because she

686
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,200
would have been an adult and 
kind of a power behind the 

687
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,120
throne running running master of
coin through her like her 

688
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,920
husband was master of coin, but 
she was the one who had the 

689
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,480
skills. 
It was one of those like he's 

690
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,320
the cover story. 
She's the one who's actually 

691
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,880
doing the job. 
So Baylor, the breaks for his 

692
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,240
hand to the king in that, you 
know, up until he died. 

693
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:08,080
So very likely he was aware of 
Elena's competence, and they 

694
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,200
would have had a lot of doings 
together, you know, as family 

695
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,480
members and all. 
But it's entirely unclear what 

696
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,520
those dealings were. 
Anyway, let's talk about Aegon 

697
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,960
the Unworthy. 
He was named for Baylor, the 

698
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,400
Blessed Aegon the Fourth was his
grandfather. 

699
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,160
So that's not the best thing to 
have this guy as your 

700
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,560
grandfather. 
We had a good father, Darren, 

701
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,560
the good, but a bad grandfather.
Aegon ruled from 172 to 184, 

702
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,120
which would be for Baylor and 
Damon Blackfire, their age 2 to 

703
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,760
14 range. 
So a huge number of important 

704
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,840
characters were born in this 
decade following Baylor and 

705
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,080
Damon. 
It's like they kicked off the 

706
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,320
wave of really important births 
in the year, in this decade of 

707
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:57,400
170 to 179, the same year as 
Agor was born, which is 172, 

708
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,520
Baylor's aunt Daenerys was born.
Yeah, kind of weird to have your

709
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,440
aunt be younger than you. 
Not that weird for the 

710
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,920
Targaryens. 
Nowhere near the most unusual 

711
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,440
family relationship he'd have 
too, because, I mean, his 

712
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,520
grandfather just kept having 
children, you know, with bastard

713
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,160
children. 
So. 

714
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,000
Yeah. 
So Agor Brendan and Damon 

715
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,000
Blackfriar, those are his 
uncles, technically. 

716
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,560
Not like they're more like 
brothers, but in terms of actual

717
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,480
family structure, they were his 
uncles. 

718
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,080
So he was also older than all 
his uncles and his one aunt 

719
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:30,640
there. 
Yeah. 

720
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,800
Very strange. 
And Baylor's brothers were born 

721
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,000
over the next seven years as 
well. 

722
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,800
We don't know exactly when, but 
in a fairly short period, 

723
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,720
because seven years is pretty 
narrow for three births. 

724
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,440
You know, Aries, Regal and 
Makar, right? 

725
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,240
And in 175 S kind of in between 
that seven-year period, I guess 

726
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,800
was when Brendan Bloodraven was 
born. 

727
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,240
A huge number of important 
characters, huge number of 

728
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,680
interesting characters, all 
within a short period of time. 

729
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,840
At some point, you become aware 
of this. 

730
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,880
Baylor's a young man. 
He's a young boy, a toddler. 

731
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,120
At some point he's going to 
become aware of the fact that 

732
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,320
his father and grandfather are 
constantly fighting. 

733
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,960
And at some point he's going to 
learn and understand what it is 

734
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,640
they're fighting about, right? 
He's not going to be able to 

735
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,200
perceive that as like a 
three-year old. 

736
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,880
Like, what are they? 
Why are dad and granddad always 

737
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,160
arguing? 
He's not under. 

738
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:26,240
He's not able to get it yet, 
right, but by maybe age 4567, 

739
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,560
he's going to understand on some
level what's happening. 

740
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,680
And you got to figure that other
kids his age would be able to 

741
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,000
perceive it around the time he 
is. 

742
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,240
Damon Blackfyre again, being one
of them, although he's still 

743
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:41,600
Damon Waters at that point. 
So you have Aegon of course, 

744
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,960
constantly trying to undermine 
Daron and Daron trying to curb 

745
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,960
his father, the King's worst 
behaviors, especially towards 

746
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,360
Queen Naris, Daron's mother, 
which would be Baylor's 

747
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,240
grandmother. 
So while his grandfather was a 

748
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:00,640
crappy guy, his grandmother was 
excellent, very pious, very 

749
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,360
sweet, very gentle, so someone 
he may have felt protective 

750
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,200
over. 
So you could see pretty easily, 

751
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,720
especially given how his 
personality comes out. 

752
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,200
If he took sides at all as a 
young boy, it would take it 

753
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,000
would be take his father and 
grandmother's side, especially 

754
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,600
with Eamon the Dragon Knight, 
the heroic man, also taking his 

755
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,480
grandmother's side. 
It's pretty easy to see who the 

756
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,880
bad guy is, even from a young 
boy's perspective. 

757
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,520
I wonder if he remembers Missy 
Blackwood. 

758
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,600
Melissa Blackwood leaving around
age 7 or 8 for him. 

759
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:29,640
That would have been when that 
happens. 

760
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,720
She was very popular and well 
loved at court, so her departure

761
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:38,240
might have been cause for, you 
know, him to. 

762
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,080
I don't suppose he'd cry over 
it, but he might feel sad to 

763
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,360
lose her. 
Even even nary's like her he 

764
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,280
would be able to perceive that. 
So she was very popular at court

765
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,160
and of course it would be very 
hard for him not to have 

766
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:59,680
remembered the ensuing incident 
with the next mistress of Aegon 

767
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,280
the 4th, which was the Terrence 
20, Bethany Bracken double or 

768
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,520
triple execution and torturer 
scenario. 

769
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,760
Still, Aegon throughout this 
this decade off and on tried to 

770
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,960
disown Deron. 
Now that's the thing that would 

771
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,360
really. 
As Baylor as a kid, he might 

772
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,360
almost be a little confused. 
He's like, wait, they're trying 

773
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,160
to argue that that dad, that 
you're the son of the dragon 

774
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,880
knight, isn't that good? 
You know, he's like, well, 

775
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,040
actually son, that means I would
make me a bastard and mean that 

776
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,800
I'm no longer in the line of 
succession to be king. 

777
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,840
So it's not good in that sense. 
He's like might be a little torn

778
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,760
as a 7 year old trying to grasp 
that like, but but he's the 

779
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,640
dragon knight. 
Like you want to be his son, 

780
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,320
right? 
Like isn't that isn't that even 

781
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,040
better? 
Like, it's like, well, son, I 

782
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,880
see where you're coming from. 
However, you know, the seven 

783
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,280
look very unkindly. 
It's another tough, difficult 

784
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,280
conversation to have about 
children born out of wedlock and

785
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,000
using his grandfather, for 
example, look at all the harm, 

786
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,320
look at all the problems our 
grandfather. 

787
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,360
And this is before the 
legitimizations, before the 

788
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,640
problems got really serious. 
Like, this was more like an 

789
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,920
ongoing nuisance where as later 
it was like a legitimate threat 

790
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,000
to the safety of the Kingdom. 
So yeah. 

791
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,200
So there's a lot of things that 
had to be explained to Baylor, a

792
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,560
lot of things that you normal 6 
and seven-year olds aren't 

793
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,040
having to learn about. 
So yet another example of how 

794
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,680
his upbringing was really the 
type that would make you grow up

795
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,040
quickly. 
You know, it was privileged for 

796
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,720
sure, but also very like big on 
responsibility in in adult 

797
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:33,240
scenarios. 
And may also have motivated him 

798
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,240
to be a all around good person. 
He might have realized, like I 

799
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:38,960
have a lot of challenges out in 
front of me. 

800
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,960
You know, even these other great
powerful, you know, people, 

801
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,360
whether their positions or their
ability as a night or whatever, 

802
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,200
they're struggling. 
I've I've got to be at least as 

803
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,840
good as them. 
You know, like there's going to 

804
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,680
be some time when especially 
some of the things he's 

805
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,280
witnessing, he thinks are wrong 
and maybe feels like someone 

806
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,480
should have stopped it like 
that. 

807
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,840
That's like maybe the fault of 
the Dragon Knight Amon the 

808
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,640
Dragon Knight, right? 
That sometimes just he maybe 

809
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,720
chose the wrong loyalty or 
whatever, right? 

810
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,240
That if we're going to fault 
him, that's what it would be. 

811
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,680
Baylor might have witnessed that
and might have realized, like, 

812
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:17,760
if I want to step up and stop 
the thing that I think is wrong,

813
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,040
I can't be a skinny little boy. 
I've got to be a big, strong 

814
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,040
knight, you know, I can't have 
any character flaws for someone 

815
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,160
to attack. 
I need to be fully righteous. 

816
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,440
He I think he might have 
realized that I need to hit 

817
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,480
every base if I'm going to 
fulfill the position that's in 

818
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:33,920
front. 
Of me. 

819
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,400
I like that. 
I like that idea a lot, Sean. 

820
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,160
That's really good. 
Yeah. 

821
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,520
And it fits as well because 
maybe more so than a lot of 

822
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,720
courts, the the good guys and 
the bad guys would be clearer. 

823
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,120
Yeah, some people it's not so 
clear with. 

824
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,960
But like, when you compare Aegon
the Unworthy to his own father 

825
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,800
and his own grandmother, it's 
pretty clear who the good guys 

826
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,800
are in this situation, right? 
Even for a young boy. 

827
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,400
So he would emulate their 
behaviors and look at whatever 

828
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,800
Aegon the Unworthy is doing as 
bad behavior, even if it's even 

829
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,480
some of it's just stuff he did. 
And so he associates that as bad

830
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,680
behavior. 
The the big things like sleeping

831
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,000
around and drinking a lot, those
would be the things that Baylor 

832
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,720
would be most keyed in on. 
Those are the negatives. 

833
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,520
And yeah, in some level, in some
ways that sounds literally 

834
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,200
straightforward. 
But we're talking about a child 

835
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,120
and what they're learning as a 
child. 

836
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,520
And and it's not so obvious. 
It's not so clear when you're 

837
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,080
when you're that young. 
And also things that maybe are 

838
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,600
not as like maybe slipping 
around isn't inherently bad, but

839
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,000
it's bad for a king, you know? 
But being vindictive like Aegon 

840
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,760
was, that's something that 
universally anyone in any 

841
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,400
position shouldn't be that way. 
But when the king is that way, 

842
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,360
what do you do about that? 
You, you, if you're going to do 

843
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,640
something about it, you really 
have to be a strong person all. 

844
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,960
Around That's a great point, 
Sean, because one thing Baylor 

845
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,960
was known for was his mercy. 
He was known to be lenient 

846
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,160
towards his enemies or some 
wouldn't, some wouldn't call it 

847
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,840
lenient, but some like 
hardliners would call it 

848
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,080
lenient. 
But he was known to like think 

849
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,840
of forgiveness first and peace 
first, which is very similar to 

850
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,720
his namesake and his father who 
followed in his namesake's 

851
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:06,360
footsteps. 
So yeah. 

852
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,840
So that's a really, that's a 
great point, Sean, because that 

853
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,160
is super important to his 
development and it is how he 

854
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,760
came out. 
So it's likely that this is when

855
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,680
he learned all that when he was 
young, when he was most 

856
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,360
influenceable, when he was just 
a young boy. 

857
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,040
Yeah. 
And his mother's reactions would

858
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,840
be really interesting too. 
When Aegon's undermining of this

859
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,280
part of his family, his main 
family, got to the point where 

860
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,120
he tried to invade Dorn. 
That's his in laws country. 

861
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,880
Like, what a strange thing to 
have your grandfather start a 

862
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,320
war against half of your own 
family, right? 

863
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,480
Like, he just launches an 
invasion. 

864
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,560
It's like, that's my grandfather
down there. 

865
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,560
You're invading my granddad. 
Like, granddad, why are you 

866
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,160
invading my other granddad? 
You know, what are you doing? 

867
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,600
Of course, it was a disaster of 
an invasion, which that wasn't 

868
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,840
great for the soldiers who were 
sent down there, but it was 

869
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,760
great for keeping the peace in 
the long term. 

870
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,920
And yeah, like how strange Nina 
writes, especially because part 

871
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,680
of his antagonism was expressed 
in Aegon's attempted campaigns 

872
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,120
against Dorn. 
While Aegon likely and correctly

873
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,480
saw that explicitly 
disinheriting Darren would 

874
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,240
provoke a declaration of war 
from the Prince of Dorn, he 

875
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:22,280
probably also decided that 
marching against Dorn would be a

876
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,960
neat way of doing an end around 
on that. 

877
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,880
Like, well, if you're going to 
bring Doran against me, well 

878
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,600
I'll just take Doran out first 
and then maybe I can disinherit 

879
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,000
you later. 
That may have been his longer 

880
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,680
term plan, although it might be 
too much to think that Aegon the

881
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,800
Unworthy had long term plans. 
He may have more like been 

882
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,880
reactive and not think that 
thought that far ahead. 

883
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,000
There certainly are examples of 
that that we can point to, but 

884
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,840
either way, he was shooting 
himself in the foot. 

885
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,560
Didn't work. 
Whatever his plans were, it 

886
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,840
backfired horribly and it 
certainly would have 

887
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,120
consequences later. 
It would be remembered by the 

888
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,920
Dornish, but they would still 
ultimately rise for the Red 

889
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,440
Dragons. 
And Baylor breaks me here was 

890
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,960
part of why. 
So he clearly managed the 

891
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,400
situation well later, despite 
the damage his grandfather tried

892
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,000
to do to it. 
Now, of course, his own, his own

893
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,960
father, the king Darren probably
did even more to re establish 

894
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,960
this piece. 
He's the one that that really 

895
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,960
settled it and made the final 
moves. 

896
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,360
But Baylor would have been right
with him there all the way. 

897
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,200
He would have been at his side 
when these things were done. 

898
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,440
Baylor was a bit older. 
So we'll get to that as we're 

899
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,680
going along here. 
And this too, like how would all

900
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,240
of this impacted the talk of 
human Damon? 

901
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:35,520
Because Aegon the Unworthy was 
threatening to name one of his 

902
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,400
bastard sons King. 
He never did it. 

903
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:40,920
But to put him ahead of the line
of session ahead of Garon by 

904
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,320
eliminating Garon instead. 
So what is young Damon 

905
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,880
Blackfyre, Damon Waters and Agor
and and Baylor? 

906
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,080
They're all like maybe hanging 
out of court together at this 

907
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,880
point. 
Maybe Agor had been sent home by

908
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,240
this point. 
He would have been back later, 

909
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,840
but how would this perceive the 
discourse around them? 

910
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,560
Like, oh, you might get 
disinherited, you know, because 

911
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,320
your father isn't maybe really 
who he says he is. 

912
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:06,640
He might be the son of the 
Dragon Knight. 

913
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,760
There would have been weird. 
It's a weird stuff for six and 

914
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,240
seven-year olds to be to have 
thrown at them already. 

915
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:16,400
Damon's being taught that he's a
bastard, so he has to, you know,

916
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:19,120
live with that and learn to live
with that. 

917
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,960
And Baylor has to learn what 
that means too. 

918
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:23,440
And they have to learn about 
these differences that's set up 

919
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:24,960
between them when they're when 
they're three and four. 

920
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,120
They, I, I figured this decent 
chance they got along, unless 

921
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,920
their parents were already like 
telling them to not like each 

922
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,400
other or something like, oh, you
don't want to like him, don't be

923
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,960
like him. 
But as the world took shape 

924
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,840
around them and they realized 
the very different places they 

925
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,520
were in terms of the line of 
succession and cultural beliefs,

926
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,720
and those differences would have
gotten larger. 

927
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,400
And again, the drag, the 
personal proximity and legend of

928
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,560
the Dragon knight comes up big. 
Because remember, one of the 

929
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,560
ways this culminated, one of the
culminations, climaxes of the 

930
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,920
Aegon trying to disinherit Deron
was the formal accusation that 

931
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,360
he made that was settled by 
trial by combat. 

932
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,840
Sorry. 
The formal accusation made by 

933
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,960
his cat's paw, Sir Morgill 
Haystwick, that he never 

934
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,960
admitted was his cat's paw. 
But we're pretty much all 99% 

935
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,320
sure that is. 
That was totally through Aegon, 

936
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,160
who stepped up to beat Morgill 
Haystwick. 

937
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,280
It was aiming the dragon knight.
So from Baylor's perspective, 

938
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,640
young Baylor's perspective, 
aiming the Dragon Knight won the

939
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,920
duel that proved his line of the
family was legit, so that he 

940
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,640
saved his family's branch from 
being disinherited. 

941
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,960
That's a he was already a heroic
figure, like the biggest heroic 

942
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,240
fear. 
And then it became even more 

943
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:49,400
personal when his heroic legend 
was used to save his inheritance

944
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,280
and his his father from being 
declared a bastard and his 

945
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,080
grandmother from being declared,
you know, cuckold or heard 

946
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,120
cuckold of the king. 
These would have been terrible 

947
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,000
had Morgill defeated Amon or 
heard one whoever he against 

948
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,240
someone else if Amon hadn't 
stepped up and it would have 

949
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,080
been something else. 
So and then people would make 

950
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,160
sure that he was aware of the 
gravity of that result. 

951
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:12,520
Then Baylor would know quite 
well. 

952
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,120
He probably even witnessed the 
duel. 

953
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,120
He may have been old enough. 
It's people are seeing 

954
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,080
executions when they're seven in
this world. 

955
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,160
So duels of this import when 
you're on a track to be Crown 

956
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,720
Prince anyway, Yeah, you're 
probably getting exposed to this

957
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,360
at an early age, especially when
your own fate is hanging in the 

958
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,200
balance. 
What a thing to see at age 7. 

959
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,120
Your own future depends on this 
dual. 

960
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,160
Wow, don't. 
Know how to process, you know, a

961
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,640
couple of thoughts about that. 
By the way, sometimes it's hard 

962
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:44,840
for us to to put ourselves in 
their shoes of, of this type of 

963
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,840
trial by combat, you know, this 
belief that God is or a God or 

964
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,320
whatever is causing or deciding 
the result based on this. 

965
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,440
But that I mean it. 
I mean, I suppose in modern 

966
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,360
times, there's still people that
have that same sort of 

967
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,480
devoutness or whatever. 
And but for a large portion of 

968
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,080
history of for a large portion 
of the world, it really was a 

969
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,880
genuine belief. 
You know, I'm sure here and 

970
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,000
there there was some like some 
cynical people taking advantage 

971
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,920
of the system, just trying to 
manipulate the crowds or 

972
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,680
whatever. 
But the crowds really believed 

973
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:14,840
it. 
You know, they really believe 

974
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,480
that God said this thing, that 
this was a sign, etcetera, 

975
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,400
etcetera, and it especially a 
six or seven-year old boy 

976
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,160
growing up being taught this 
stuff, of course he's going to 

977
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,480
truly believe it. 
You know you're. 

978
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:27,520
Right. 
He's not going to see it as 

979
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,320
like, you're not going to have 
the cynicism that older people 

980
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,280
have. 
Like, yeah, maybe the gods 

981
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:31,360
aren't really. 
This is something we talk, but 

982
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:32,920
it's something we say. 
No, you're right. 

983
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,360
The seven-year old who was 
raised like he's Baylor's 

984
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,600
namesake. 
Yeah, his father was pious. 

985
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:39,880
You're right. 
Like, he would have really taken

986
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,840
the result to Hartman, Like, oh,
this really proved it, you know?

987
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,120
My other thought is once again, 
we've sort of wondered about the

988
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,080
realities of the day-to-day life
and interactions, different 

989
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,520
characters. 
One model we have for this is 

990
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,440
House of the Dragon. 
Seeing how Ammond and and Jason,

991
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,040
Luke and all, you know, all 
those interactions and, and even

992
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,960
the the the idea like if if it 
ever had happened, that if 

993
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,200
Harwin had ever had a fight with
the, you know, if someone had 

994
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,760
found with someone trial by 
combat, like how they would have

995
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,560
witnessed that, how they would 
have played out depending on who

996
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,960
won or lost, you know. 
Yeah, maybe not perfect 

997
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,600
parallels, but a good model how 
it might have been, you know? 

998
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,720
Like 2 households growing within
one. 

999
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,960
Like 2 exactly, but they're 
relatives. 

1000
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,760
But they're separate branches of
the same royal family, have 

1001
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,480
similar ages, and there's lots 
of them, yeah. 

1002
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:36,840
There might be some phases or 
some couples that get along well

1003
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,400
or understand or aren't 
ambitious, but there are some 

1004
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:44,480
who are going to be vindictive 
or angling or night or and 

1005
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,680
there's violence or whatever 
else. 

1006
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,840
There's this sort of same, like,
arguing over what is bastard 

1007
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,560
status Really, like trying to 
change what it means or ignore 

1008
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,680
that it's real in the case of 
the Dance of the Dragon. 

1009
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,040
So yeah, it's like, yeah. 
But Damon's a different bastard.

1010
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,760
Yeah, but Jace is a different 
sort of bastard. 

1011
00:51:58,760 --> 00:51:59,960
Yeah. 
Like, no, he's not a bastard at 

1012
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:00,920
all. 
Yeah, he is, but he's a 

1013
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:01,680
different. 
Yeah. 

1014
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,480
So it's. 
It's kind of like that. 

1015
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,360
By the way, that's a comparison 
here, too, that that should be 

1016
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,160
made as Jace's look, he doesn't 
look Targaryen, right. 

1017
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,120
Same as Baylor doesn't look 
Targaryen. 

1018
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:13,840
That would have been a factor 
for Baylor, yeah. 

1019
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,680
So that's something we can make 
a loose comparison on. 

1020
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,520
And Speaking of them being used 
and all that, and rather than 

1021
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,960
witnessing fights, they also 
start early, especially in this 

1022
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,240
setting, especially given their 
way to responsibility and what 

1023
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:30,560
what's expected of them in their
future. 

1024
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,560
So yeah, a lot of boys start 
training with sword and shield 

1025
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,760
and getting used to the weight 
of armor as soon as they can. 

1026
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,080
As soon as you're able to put 
that on, as soon as you can lift

1027
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,840
that sword and shield, you're 
pretty much doing it. 

1028
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,960
It isn't age so much as just 
when your body can physically do

1029
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,560
it. 
You might be 3, you might be 6, 

1030
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,120
I don't know. 
But we're pretty sure that 

1031
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:53,840
Westerosi Marshall culture puts 
them at it as soon as possible. 

1032
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,520
So Baylor. 
Baylor and Damon were likely 

1033
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,760
very early starters because they
both seem to be physically 

1034
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:00,880
gifted. 
They both seem to grow up 

1035
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,960
quickly. 
And I mean, Damon wound up being

1036
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,280
literally the earliest knighted 
in the history of the Seven 

1037
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,520
Kingdoms. 
So when there was training 

1038
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,240
between the two of them in terms
of swords, Damon probably won 

1039
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:16,240
more than he lost versus Baylor,
but Baylor probably exceeded him

1040
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:18,480
in other areas. 
Horsemanship is a strong 

1041
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,880
contender for being something 
that Baylor was better at. 

1042
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,040
Baylor will defeat Damon in the 
finals. 

1043
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,360
Attorney that we're going to 
talk about very famously at the 

1044
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,080
end of this episode. 
There's also clues that he's 

1045
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,200
better in other ways, like in 
planning for consider what he 

1046
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,760
does in the hedge night where 
he's like, let's use turning 

1047
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,800
lances because they're longer 
and they're like, oh, but that's

1048
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,360
dangerous because his lances 
aren't as good. 

1049
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,120
He's like, yeah, but but we're 
good enough to pull this off. 

1050
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,680
Like you need to be skilled for 
that move to work. 

1051
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,920
Otherwise you're it's going to 
backfire horribly. 

1052
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,600
And you've got like weak lances 
against real lances. 

1053
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,880
So if you don't do it just 
right, then you've screwed 

1054
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,280
yourself. 
And we know of other times that 

1055
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,760
Baylor has won tournaments. 
So he's clearly not just a 

1056
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,920
winner a couple times here. 
Like there's that whole scene 

1057
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:08,720
where Dunk refers to hit Arlen 
breaking 7 lances against him 

1058
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,720
and Baylor's like actually it 
was only four. 

1059
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,040
But don't think anyway. 
Like, you know, the tail grows 

1060
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,240
in the tail. 
He's again showing. 

1061
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,480
His man, he's still alive, Yeah.
He's he's still magnanimous 

1062
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:19,960
about it. 
Then that's that's something we 

1063
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,600
should keep in mind that Baylor,
he's always doing that sort of 

1064
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,800
thing. 
He's always like trying to be 

1065
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,040
humble. 
And it's kind of hard to because

1066
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,520
he's just so great. 
It's like when these guys, it's 

1067
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,320
like, yeah, you're not, you're 
trying to be humble. 

1068
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,600
I appreciate that. 
But you're great. 

1069
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,080
Yeah. 
Your greatness exudes from you 

1070
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,880
wherever you walk, like your 
charisma, your your ability or 

1071
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,320
high birth. 
Like, yeah, we appreciate the 

1072
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,000
humbleness, but there's you're 
not actually. 

1073
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:50,560
Yeah. 
So Fireball the Redkeep master 

1074
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:55,240
at arms who was said to have 
trained all the great bastards. 

1075
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:56,880
Would you have trained Baylor as
well? 

1076
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,440
I think so, at least in part 
because he was the Red Keys 

1077
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,360
Master Arms, not the great 
bastards mastered Arms. 

1078
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,080
His position was Red Keep 
mastered arms. 

1079
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,640
But Gaylor would have spent a 
lot of time on Dragonstone 

1080
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,000
because his father was Prince of
Dragonstone. 

1081
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:14,720
But we don't have to assume that
just because you're Prince of 

1082
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:16,160
Dragonstone, you spend a lot of 
time there. 

1083
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,360
That's the trick here. 
How much time did Darren spend 

1084
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,480
at court trying to stop his 
father from doing crappy things?

1085
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,520
We I feel like it was a lot. 
I feel like Darren stayed at 

1086
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,000
court quite a bit because of 
this and because of other 

1087
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,600
reasons, but it's possible there
were long periods of time where 

1088
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,200
they were just on Dragonstone 
kind of out of it. 

1089
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,720
I can also imagine, especially 
if you got these young, growing,

1090
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:45,480
boisterous, excited Princess, if
they like Hey, Fireball, come to

1091
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,840
Dragonstone with this. 
Hey, we want to train on Dragon.

1092
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,960
Hey, so and so's and Dragon. 
So let's go visit him. 

1093
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:52,520
You would probably not have much
choice about it, right? 

1094
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:53,200
Yeah, it's. 
True. 

1095
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:54,600
Yeah, it may have been kind of. 
More of you might even be 

1096
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,880
excited to do it. 
Yeah, Dragonstone, I'll train 

1097
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,520
you guys. 
Yeah, it's, it's, you're right. 

1098
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,080
We should look at it as like a 
fluid situation. 

1099
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,440
Just again bringing up the 
blacks and greens, the dance 

1100
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:03,840
hair, like they were there a 
lot. 

1101
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,480
They were there. 
They were back at Dragonstone a 

1102
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,200
lot. 
There was some back and forth. 

1103
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,320
Now there was more reason for 
those two groups to be separated

1104
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,360
because the Sun started fighting
so much. 

1105
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:17,240
They had to be sort of for for 
reasons of potential violence. 

1106
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:20,000
They needed to be separated. 
We do not have that indication 

1107
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,240
here that there's need. 
They needed to be separated. 

1108
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,920
So that adds to the possibility 
that they spent more time 

1109
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,080
together. 
In fact, you would want them to 

1110
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,360
spend time together if they're 
not fighting each other, if 

1111
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,080
they're not violent for each 
other, because they're all going

1112
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,200
to, They're all of similar rank 
and you don't want there to be 

1113
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,880
animosity between them. 
And if they're hanging out and 

1114
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,400
otherwise not hating each other,
then that's probably good, you 

1115
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:45,040
know, as long as no news is bad 
news or no news is good news in 

1116
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,840
that sort of scenario. 
Now, in terms of Baylor's 

1117
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,720
brothers, Makar would have been 
eventually part of this group as

1118
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:53,040
well, even though he was a bit 
younger. 

1119
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,480
But probably not the two middle 
brothers, Aries and Regal, 

1120
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,680
because those two were not 
Marshall at all. 

1121
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,840
Aries was bookish. 
Regal, well, we just don't know 

1122
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,040
much about Regal. 
He's the real unknown of this 

1123
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:05,680
for a group of four here, for 
sure. 

1124
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:10,840
I suspect Aries, he did come to 
the Red Keep sometimes though, 

1125
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,800
because of the library there. 
He was bookish and the Red Keep 

1126
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,240
had a great library, so he would
want to he would have plenty of 

1127
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,000
incentive to be there, but he 
wouldn't be paying attention to 

1128
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,480
much else. 
You know, as worth noting in the

1129
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,200
mystery Night Egg says Fireball 
taught my father and my uncles 

1130
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:27,720
how to fight the great bastards 
too. 

1131
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,600
So that does pretty much confirm
that. 

1132
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,600
He may not have trained them 
their whole lives, but he he 

1133
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,560
started them off right. 
If Baylor left later for more 

1134
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,960
time at Dragonstone, then that 
would apply as well. 

1135
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,800
But that clearly he fireball was
there early on. 

1136
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:49,160
Now again, because Bitter 
Steel's mom was sent away. 

1137
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:50,960
He was proud he was sent away 
too. 

1138
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,080
We're later told that Aegon the 
Unworthy at least one point 

1139
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,680
visited Aegor at Stonehedge, 
which means he was at 

1140
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,360
Stonehedge, not at court. 
But clearly Aegor came back to 

1141
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,200
court at some point because 
again, Fireball Todd is the 

1142
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,680
great bastards out of fight. 
So bitter steel had to have been

1143
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,640
there for part of that. 
Plus eventually Agor's 

1144
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,560
constantly pouring bitterness 
and poison into Damon's ear, 

1145
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,600
which he had to do in person. 
Like I don't think he's just 

1146
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,160
constantly sending him letters, 
is he? 

1147
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,880
That doesn't doesn't sound very 
convincing like that good of a 

1148
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,040
writer that he's just that 
convincing with his word. 

1149
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:27,680
I don't know. 
It's it says pouring poison in 

1150
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,800
his ear. 
Sounds like they were in 

1151
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,520
proximity to each other. 
And the final piece of evidence 

1152
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,400
for that is that Deron was said 
to have kept to the great 

1153
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,280
bastards close. 
So he kept that sound implies 

1154
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,640
that they were at court where he
could keep an eye on them, not 

1155
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,720
back at their respective home 
castles. 

1156
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:48,560
So even if Agor wasn't around in
Baylor's early years, he was 

1157
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,720
around later when they would 
have been in court together when

1158
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,040
they were maybe teenagers as 
well. 

1159
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,960
I wonder Dragon Knight probably 
got in there with some lessons, 

1160
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,520
some training. 
They would have loved to get 

1161
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,480
some teaching from him. 
You might have Aegon not happy 

1162
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:03,640
with that. 
The king might have been like 

1163
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,080
no, you can't do that. 
He might have been petty about 

1164
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:10,920
it and they'd the dragon knight 
stay around him or give him like

1165
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,280
humiliating duty instead. 
But this might have been beneath

1166
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,600
his notice. 
Such a small thing, training the

1167
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,240
young Princess at sword 
fighting. 

1168
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:26,240
He might not have cared about 
that, but if Baylor did train 

1169
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,880
with Eamon, it might fuel the 
rumor mongering that he's his 

1170
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,560
grandson. 
He's like, yeah, see, yeah. 

1171
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,800
That's like father, like 
grandson. 

1172
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,280
That's proof. 
So there may have been some, 

1173
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,640
like, optics reason to not let 
them be around each other so 

1174
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,680
much. 
Kind of like Harwin in the 

1175
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,800
training yard trying to pretend 
he's like, he's at the opposite 

1176
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,120
of that because Harwin really is
father. 

1177
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:49,120
Where this is like, I promise 
that is not my grandson, you 

1178
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,200
know, sure. 
Dragon Knight. 

1179
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,680
Sure. 
It's like, so will you believe 

1180
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,200
me? 
I'm the pious dragon knight? 

1181
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,680
Yeah, but but you're you're 
dishonest. 

1182
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:04,080
Brother said otherwise. 
So I got to believe him. 

1183
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,440
He's the king. 
I'm feeling it. 

1184
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,520
Not many people really believe 
that it. 

1185
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:14,440
Some people might have like 
pretended to believe it for the 

1186
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,080
sake of some political 
positioning. 

1187
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,000
You know what I mean? 
But I don't think they really 

1188
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:18,920
believe. 
I don't think they really. 

1189
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,640
Believe it also to keeping our 
timeline straight here aiming 

1190
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,920
the Dragon Knight died probably 
when Baylor was only about 10, 

1191
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,880
and so Damon would about the 
same age. 

1192
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:30,680
So there's not there couldn't 
have been that much training 

1193
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,760
from him in their upbringing. 
Oh, there could have been a 

1194
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,640
decent bit, but it definitely 
wasn't happening later in life. 

1195
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,720
And let's talk about that. 
The death of Amon is our next 

1196
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,880
bid subsection here. 
It would have been a very sad 

1197
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,320
day at court indeed that he was 
the living legend for this 

1198
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,560
generation of royal youth. 
And it asks the question like, 

1199
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:52,440
who else were they idolizing? 
You know, there would have been 

1200
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,200
a lot of figures from recent 
history that they possibly could

1201
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,840
have idolized or maybe would 
have looked at as controversial.

1202
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,760
Prince Damon, writer of 
cracksies most martial figure of

1203
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,320
recent times other than who had 
been dead before their time. 

1204
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,000
He'd been dead for less than 40 
years. 

1205
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,360
So this isn't this isn't just 
memory here. 

1206
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:14,000
He was very famous, obviously. 
And of course, Baylor, 

1207
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:18,400
technically Prince Damon, writer
of Craxies, was his great, great

1208
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:19,920
grandfather. 
So that's, you know, it's a 

1209
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,400
family connection too, a bit 
distant, but still there. 

1210
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:27,560
Now, I could see Baylor looking 
at Damon as a bit of a 

1211
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,760
cautionary tale, though, Like 
he's because they he's not. 

1212
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,200
He didn't emulate him except 
maybe in Marshall skill, but not

1213
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,320
in terms of decisions making, 
personality, attitudes, just 

1214
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,960
very different in terms of 
temperament and all these other 

1215
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,240
things like they're, they're 
opposites in a lot of ways. 

1216
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,680
So a lot depends on what kind of
stories he was told. 

1217
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,800
Maybe there's the stories told 
about his great great 

1218
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,760
grandfather were sanitized a 
bit, you know, And of course 

1219
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,360
there's just things that you 
can't emulate, like being a 

1220
01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:00,600
dragon rider. 
Jaharis and Aegon the Conquer 

1221
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:06,360
seem like more likely idols or 
figures to emulate. 

1222
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,480
Jairus was so wise and ruled so 
long and did so many, built so 

1223
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,280
many things that were still in 
use. 

1224
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,560
They would have revered him. 
I don't think the the shine 

1225
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,000
would have worn off wouldn't 
have worn off on him even though

1226
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,560
we're talking in like 100 years 
before. 

1227
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,000
And of course, the Conqueror, 
they're never going to forget 

1228
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,760
him because like, yeah, back to 
Jaharius real quick though, like

1229
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,000
Jaharius is the conciliator. 
And there's we were just saying 

1230
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,440
like there's absolutely some 
conciliator, if not a lot of 

1231
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,640
conciliator in the personality 
of bail or break spirit. 

1232
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,400
This is the guy that we just got
from saying is all about 

1233
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,760
forgiveness and mercy and trying
to like reach accords rather 

1234
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:48,000
than I mean, it's like that old 
world's most interesting man 

1235
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,160
commercial for for Dos Equis for
the like. 

1236
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,200
He's a lover, not a fighter, but
he's also a fighter. 

1237
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,640
So watch yourself. 
So that's that's Baylor like he 

1238
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,360
he's a peaceful guy, but he'll 
throw down and he's good at it. 

1239
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,880
So which is also Jaharis, like 
Jaharis, that was the was the 

1240
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,640
attitude Jaharis had to it 
towards a lot of his Lords. 

1241
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,240
He would fly to these castles by
himself without his protection 

1242
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,640
on Vermithor, a huge dragon. 
So you're like, yeah, look at 

1243
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,800
me, I'm brave. 
But if you mess I'm and I'm 

1244
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:18,400
coming here in peace. 
But don't forget about this huge

1245
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,080
beast behind me. 
Now, of course, Baylor can't 

1246
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,320
exactly go about it that way. 
He has to be. 

1247
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,320
There's no dragon backing him. 
But he still is formidable. 

1248
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:34,040
And I feel is tactful too, like 
he he doesn't necessarily even 

1249
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:38,040
have to use those threats right?
But like it maybe either it's 

1250
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,320
known that they're there, but I 
feel like his wisdom and logic 

1251
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,920
are strong enough to solve a lot
of stuff without the. 

1252
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,200
Maybe the threat in the 
background helps, but without 

1253
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,480
having to go. 
There and the respect he carries

1254
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:50,880
and yeah, and the threat is 
there. 

1255
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,000
Like you say, if you go against 
him, well, you're going against 

1256
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,400
his popularity, which is 
substantial, which means a lot 

1257
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:56,440
of people are going to follow 
him. 

1258
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:00,800
So whatever decisions popular 
guy makes, well, you're if 

1259
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,480
you're going against that, 
you're going against all those 

1260
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,120
people supporting him. 
And that's that's a lot of 

1261
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,480
weight. 
Nina had a great take here as 

1262
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,480
well. 
I really like she suggested not 

1263
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:13,520
just Damon, writer of Craxies, 
but his father Baylon, almost 

1264
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,720
the same name, who was also a 
hand of the king and heir at the

1265
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,880
same time, which Baylor will 
eventually be. 

1266
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:24,040
And he was well regarded both as
a warrior and as a statesman. 

1267
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,480
And yeah, and that's only one 
generation back farther. 

1268
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,200
So that's a that's good. 
Sadly, they also both died while

1269
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,480
hand. 
Baylon lived only five years 

1270
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:35,880
longer than Baylor is going to 
live. 

1271
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,840
Baylon died at age 44 and Baylor
died at age 39. 

1272
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:43,400
So. 
But of all these heroic figures,

1273
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,760
we just named all these ones 
that maybe Baylor and some of 

1274
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,360
these other ones could have 
idolized, Dragon Knight is the 

1275
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:50,880
only one that didn't have a 
dragon. 

1276
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,920
And of course, he's the only one
that they lived to see his 

1277
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,000
passing. 
They would go to his funeral, 

1278
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,240
whereas the others, they would 
maybe just see their tombs or 

1279
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,800
the hear their stories. 
So there's it's undoubtedly more

1280
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,960
personal and more momentous in 
terms of a life event. 

1281
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,760
You almost figure like, remember
what Rob did when he heard about

1282
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,920
what happened? 
He like draws his sword and the 

1283
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:13,280
gods would is like, I'm going to
get here. 

1284
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,800
I'm so mad. 
And the saris does the same 

1285
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,160
thing with Danny's brother when 
he's like, I'm going to go kill 

1286
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,480
Robert myself. 
You know, this just ridiculous, 

1287
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,200
like drawing their sword and 
Rodrick Cassell's like, don't 

1288
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:24,440
draw your sword unless you mean 
to use it. 

1289
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:28,040
Boy, You know, I almost figured 
this was a moment like that 

1290
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,600
where like Damon or maybe even 
Baylor or stuff are like drawing

1291
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,640
their swords. 
Like those toynes, they killed 

1292
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,560
the dragon knight. 
Like, oh, we're going to go get 

1293
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,240
them, you know, And then the 
Knights 1/4 like, all right, 

1294
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,720
chill, 10 year olds, come on. 
We appreciate the the courage 

1295
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,520
here, but you're going to have 
to let the adults handle this 

1296
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:49,120
one. 
Speaking of Jon Snow has that 

1297
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:53,040
memory of him and Rob yelling 
out the names of their heroes. 

1298
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaking of like idolizing 
figures when one of whom was the

1299
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,440
young was King Daron the young 
dragon, right. 

1300
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,360
So that would be another one 
that I didn't mention that one. 

1301
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,640
That's one that they might have 
thought of as a hero. 

1302
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,600
So John thinks of how they would
do that all the time. 

1303
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,560
And then one day Rob's like, you
can't be Lord of Winterfell. 

1304
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,960
You're a bastard, you know? 
And it's like the weight of 

1305
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,120
reality just hits him like cold 
water. 

1306
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:16,160
Like, Rob wasn't trying to be 
me. 

1307
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,560
He was just like stating facts, 
like, but you can't be, you 

1308
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,920
know, It's like, yeah, you can't
be the young dragon either, Rob.

1309
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,880
Like these are all, this is all 
fantasy, you know, and it was 

1310
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:28,400
the young dragon, but never 
mind. 

1311
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:34,200
But so this is what I was saying
earlier with these divisions, 

1312
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,080
they would idolize people, but 
even who they idolize might come

1313
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,600
up as as a wedge to who they 
could really be, who they're 

1314
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,400
allowed to be within society. 
And it's just a really 

1315
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,080
interesting thing to think 
about, like how no matter how 

1316
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,640
innocent you are, no matter how 
you're trying to be a kid, this 

1317
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,160
this royal culture is just like 
telling you what your place is 

1318
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,640
and all your friends too, or who
people who might be your 

1319
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,920
friends. 
You know, this might be a little

1320
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,400
bit of a tangent, but it's I 
still think it's the same 

1321
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,240
concept. 
Imagine growing up a young black

1322
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:09,200
girl in America anytime before, 
I don't know, the past 10 years.

1323
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,560
Like who are all the idols? 
Who are all the leaders? 

1324
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:13,480
Who are all the presidents? 
Who are all the center business?

1325
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,440
It's all white men, right? 
Like, what do you think is a 

1326
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,960
young child if you're not a a 
white boy? 

1327
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:20,920
What are you? 
Who are your idols? 

1328
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,680
Who are you allowed to be? 
You know what I mean? 

1329
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,200
Like if you try to pretend like 
you're president, you're going 

1330
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:26,840
to get scoffed at. 
You know, that's a good point. 

1331
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,320
Yeah. 
Let's talk about competition, 

1332
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,200
jealousy and swords. 
That's the next section here. 

1333
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,960
This raises the question, 
questions like this, like 

1334
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,760
jealousy and these divisions 
and, and how the children would 

1335
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,280
handle it. 
One example that I think is very

1336
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:48,720
visual that that maybe wouldn't 
have occurred to y'all that I 

1337
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,760
thought of when we were thinking
about this episode is that the 

1338
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:56,000
Kingsguard would be around 
Baylor a lot because he's in the

1339
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,160
line of succession. 
They would be protecting him as 

1340
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,800
one of the crown, eventual 
inheritors of the throne. 

1341
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,120
Damon Blackfyer would not have 
that protection. 

1342
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:04,520
He would have Kingsguard 
following him around all the 

1343
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,880
time. 
He's a bastard, right? 

1344
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:07,680
And he's not. 
They're not. 

1345
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:09,560
They wouldn't be thinking of him
in those terms. 

1346
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,800
They would have respect for him 
because of his martial prowess 

1347
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:17,359
and his bearing and his skills. 
But he wouldn't be someone they 

1348
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:19,720
need to protect. 
You know that he's not like an 

1349
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:21,279
important figure that must be 
kept alive. 

1350
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:23,920
So, you know, that kind of thing
might rankle. 

1351
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,960
And that's the kind of thing 
someone like Bitter Steel would 

1352
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:30,200
maybe point to to be like. 
Look at how he's getting more 

1353
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,120
regard than you like the kind of
thing that if you're trying to 

1354
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,640
draw drive a wedge, you're 
trying to start something. 

1355
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,560
You would point at these little 
differences and try to make them

1356
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,880
about your pride and just the 
devil on one shoulder whispering

1357
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,760
and why you should be upset. 
Kind of like a lot of modern 

1358
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,080
media, like telling us what we 
should be mad about, you know, 

1359
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:51,200
like outrage media. 
Like you should be outraged. 

1360
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,479
Baylor or Damon, rather. 
Look at what he's getting. 

1361
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,439
All these things that you 
deserve, you know. 

1362
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:02,640
Yeah, Very similar to that I 
think and now again, so. 

1363
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,760
Shocking news about Damon's 
sword. 

1364
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:09,359
And so again, so much hinges on 
what they actually thought of 

1365
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:10,720
each other. 
Did they get along? 

1366
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:16,080
Did the possible wrangling of 
their own factions, you know, 

1367
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,120
work and get them to dislike 
each other? 

1368
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:19,760
Or did they kind of rise above 
that? 

1369
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,840
Do they respect each other? 
No idea. 

1370
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:23,960
So, but it's a very compelling 
question. 

1371
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:29,319
Somewhere around 181, when they 
were about 11, Chiara Sea Star 

1372
01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:30,760
was born. 
Her mother Sereni died. 

1373
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,880
This is when Aegon had become 
grossly overweight and diseased.

1374
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:36,760
So he wasn't very mobile 
anymore. 

1375
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:39,720
Now we're guessing Chiara and 
Daylord didn't have much to do 

1376
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,439
with each other throughout their
lives, but they would have had 

1377
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:42,840
something to do, kind of like 
Elena. 

1378
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,040
She was around court a lot. 
So is Chiara. 

1379
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,880
I mean, Chiara would have been 
at court while Baylor was Hand 

1380
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,000
and Baylor was Hand for 13 years
later. 

1381
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,640
So that's maybe we'll come back 
to that in Part 2 if we have 

1382
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:58,280
some ideas on it. 
But also around the year 181, 

1383
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:00,800
maybe 182, that's when Nerys 
died. 

1384
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,960
So that would, although it could
have been as late as 183. 

1385
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,680
So that's his grandmother and 
that's also the queen. 

1386
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:12,920
So this is a pretty big deal 
because let's not forget the 

1387
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:14,680
quirk of incestuous dynastic 
marriages. 

1388
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:18,120
Sometimes you only have one 
grandmother and one grandfather.

1389
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,400
So yes, this is his one 
grandmother that passed. 

1390
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,040
So that's kind of like, Oh yeah.
And he? 

1391
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:27,800
All half the grieving that that 
silver lining of incense. 

1392
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,520
Definitely looking at the bright
side, Sean. 

1393
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,520
Yeah. 
So he also only had one great 

1394
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:33,160
grandmother. 
Yeah. 

1395
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:35,280
If you go back far enough, you 
know, he's got the lysine. 

1396
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,360
The lysine. 
Great, great grandparents or 

1397
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,720
what have you. 
Anyway, so Nary's also was one 

1398
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:42,760
of the few remaining connections
to the Dance aftermath. 

1399
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:44,920
She was born about five years 
after it ended. 

1400
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,520
So she was one of the few people
that lived around Dragons that 

1401
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:50,000
was still there since AIM and 
died first. 

1402
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,160
One of the few left at this 
point was Aegon the Unworthy, 

1403
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,720
who outlived his younger brother
and sister despite his ill 

1404
01:10:55,720 --> 01:11:00,760
health. 
In 182 came the famous Squires 

1405
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:02,400
tournament. 
The Damon won. 

1406
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:08,320
This is it's when he got his 
unusually young knighting, which

1407
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:14,040
was probably done in part by 
Aegon because it was scandalous 

1408
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:16,560
and noteworthy. 
Part of why he did it. 

1409
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:22,160
Maybe also because he might have
had a rare moment of of 

1410
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,920
realizing his own life wouldn't 
last much longer given his 

1411
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:29,680
health and he was also just 
known for ignoring traditions 

1412
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,240
and things like that. 
He floundered them constantly. 

1413
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,440
Did Baylor participate in this 
choirs tournament? 

1414
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,240
No idea, but seems pretty 
likely. 

1415
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:39,800
Definitely not a guarantee. 
He might have been on 

1416
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:43,360
Dragonstone or something. 
Maybe his father didn't want him

1417
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,360
competing against these boys, 
but that doesn't seem likely 

1418
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,120
because he did later in other 
tournaments. 

1419
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:52,560
So I think that's important. 
Something else to consider 

1420
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:57,600
though, the sword Black Fire was
given to Damon as part of his 

1421
01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:59,440
prize for winning this 
tournament. 

1422
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:01,800
That was going to be Baylor's 
sword. 

1423
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,200
It would have passed to him. 
Did Baylor care or was he like, 

1424
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:06,120
hey, that was going to be my 
sword? 

1425
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,440
Now, Daron didn't wouldn't have 
cared. 

1426
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:11,720
He, I mean, he might have cared 
in terms of the symbol, but he 

1427
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:13,680
wasn't going to have used the 
sword himself or else he might 

1428
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,080
have already had it. 
But he was the heir, although 

1429
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:17,040
his father didn't give it to 
him. 

1430
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:20,720
But it would have been Gaylors 
one day had it not been given to

1431
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,920
Damon because he was a warrior. 
And that's just typically how 

1432
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:25,200
it's used. 
If you're the king and you're 

1433
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,320
not a Marshall guy, you often 
give it to your heir. 

1434
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:32,040
This son there who is Marshall 
and let them wield it and be the

1435
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,920
family is stronger for it. 
So interesting. 

1436
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:37,280
How old? 
About how old were they at this 

1437
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:39,680
time? 
12 12 Both. 

1438
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,560
Of them would have been. 12, 
yeah, 12 seems pretty young to 

1439
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:44,560
give him that sword. 
Yeah. 

1440
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,600
And I, I was also wondering if 
maybe Baylor would have been. 

1441
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,680
Maybe that tournament made him 
realize he needed to be a better

1442
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,040
night. 
Maybe he was in it and didn't do

1443
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:54,000
well and realized he needs to 
get better, you know? 

1444
01:12:55,480 --> 01:12:58,800
But even if that's the case, 
it's still how good could damn 

1445
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,800
it have been to get this sort of
age, 12? 

1446
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,960
I don't know. 
Well, you hear how Sir Eustis 

1447
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,600
talks about him, But I mean, 
Eustis is a little, you know, in

1448
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,880
love with the past, but still 
like Damon was maybe, yeah, 

1449
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,560
maybe was the best warrior since
AIM in the Dragon Night. 

1450
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,360
I know that. 
Not that that was that long 

1451
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,280
after Aim in the Dragon Night, 
but still, a lot of people put 

1452
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:20,880
Damon Blackfire in the top five 
of all time warriors. 

1453
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,640
That's kind of a, I mean, that's
really a matter of opinion. 

1454
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,960
There's no way to really know. 
But yeah, now Baylor, again, we 

1455
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,560
talk about him being chivalrous 
and graceful. 

1456
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,840
So I don't think he would have 
like he'd, I really doubt he 

1457
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,040
like made a scene or anything 
like that or got publicly upset.

1458
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,240
But in private, he might have 
been kind of upset about it. 

1459
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,360
And his father as well might 
have been upset about, his 

1460
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,320
father would have definitely 
been upset about the symbolism 

1461
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:46,600
of it and what it might mean in 
terms of just besides the sword 

1462
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,680
itself, in terms of what his 
father was doing. 

1463
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,360
Like, oh, here my dad goes again
with trying to undermine our 

1464
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,440
side of the family. 
You might be worried about what 

1465
01:13:54,440 --> 01:13:56,720
would come after that. 
And he would be right to be 

1466
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,640
because two years later came the
deathbed proclamation of 

1467
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:01,520
legitimization of all these 
fellows. 

1468
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:05,440
So, yeah, so there would have 
been some discussions in private

1469
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:07,800
at the very least about what 
this might mean. 

1470
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,360
And Baylor himself might have 
been asked to wait. 

1471
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:10,440
And he's like, well, father, I 
don't. 

1472
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,400
I don't want to cause a scene. 
I don't want to have this be a 

1473
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,360
problem on my back. 
He's like, OK, well, that's good

1474
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:17,000
of you, son. 
But it's more than that. 

1475
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,840
It is bigger than just the 
sword, right? 

1476
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,280
It might mean the sword is a 
symbol of the Conqueror. 

1477
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,520
And, you know, we've seen him 
try to undermine our line 

1478
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:27,640
before. 
This might be a prelude to 

1479
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,920
another attempt to throw us out 
of the line of succession, which

1480
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,960
it kind of was, wasn't fully, 
but it kind of was. 

1481
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,200
So, yeah, Baylor would have 
probably been if he didn't 

1482
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,800
realize the implied threat to 
his own place in the line of 

1483
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:42,320
succession. 
He would have had it explained 

1484
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:43,880
to him. 
And I think he probably did 

1485
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,680
because he was wise beyond his 
years. 

1486
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:51,320
Most likely, given everything he
was faced with from young age 

1487
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,920
on, he just was expected to have
all these adult responsibilities

1488
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,640
and he took to it. 
So I feel like he would have 

1489
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:58,600
seen this. 
He would have understand at 

1490
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:02,160
least some of the significance. 
Yeah. 

1491
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:03,960
This is public. 
Let's not forget this was a 

1492
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,680
public gift of the sword. 
It wasn't like in in private, 

1493
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:08,600
you know, you've earned this 
sword, kid. 

1494
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:09,440
You know. 
Here you go. 

1495
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,800
No, this was in front of 
everybody who watched the 

1496
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,080
tournament. 
Big public courtly thing. 

1497
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:15,760
Yeah. 
The whole realm, what I heard 

1498
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,440
about it, like right away would 
have been the subject of gossip.

1499
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,040
Just like their bursts were just
like some of these other things 

1500
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:23,320
that happened along the way. 
The whole court, the realm. 

1501
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,360
Talk of the talk of the week or 
the next few months or whatever,

1502
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,160
and then then beyond that as it,
as the situation continued to 

1503
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,960
evolve. 
I definitely feel like it was AI

1504
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,640
don't know political optical 
move or whatever more so than 

1505
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,360
they do. 
Just like just like time when 

1506
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,800
making Jamie on a hands guard. 
Maybe they there's some 

1507
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,320
ostensible reasoning behind it, 
but that's not really what it 

1508
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:48,640
was. 
If that's what it really was, it

1509
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,320
could have been done in private.
It could have been done in a 

1510
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,520
bunch of other ways, but the 
fact that it was done in public,

1511
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:55,280
I think that it was a strategic 
move. 

1512
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:57,960
Yeah, now Darren. 
Spiteful move, yeah. 

1513
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:01,440
Darren might have counseled, you
know, just let's roll with the 

1514
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:03,320
punches here. 
You might have said things like,

1515
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:05,400
well, like a non sarcastic 
Stannis. 

1516
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,680
You could have said, well, let's
just pray harder about the 

1517
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,760
situation, you know, let's not 
get violent. 

1518
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,880
You know, and Nina also adds a 
great point. 

1519
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:15,400
You could have counseled Baylor 
if Baylor was feeling jilted or 

1520
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,880
like he lost something. 
He's like look man, look son, 

1521
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,560
yeah he got the sword you're 
going to get the Kingdom you 

1522
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:21,960
know you're going to you, you 
have more than him. 

1523
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:23,960
You're ahead of him you know be 
gracious about it. 

1524
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:26,760
You know he he still has less 
than you and that might have 

1525
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,240
that might have worked that 
argument might have worked. 

1526
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,160
Nina says. 
We also think of the arguments 

1527
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,480
Egg uses in the sworn sword when
Eustace Ozgre explains his 

1528
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:36,200
allegiance to the Black fire 
cause the Damon was simply the 

1529
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:38,160
best swordsman and the gift of 
black fire was just an 

1530
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:39,640
expression of that. 
You're the best swordsman you 

1531
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:41,240
get the best sword. 
It doesn't mean anything more 

1532
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:43,480
than that it doesn't mean you 
you should be king. 

1533
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:46,880
Although absolutely some people 
did see it that way later. 

1534
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,320
This is in the immediate 
aftermath of the gift and and 

1535
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,920
before anyone knew the full 
consequences of what it would 

1536
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:56,040
mean. 
Darren could also remind his son

1537
01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:00,200
lots of Targaryen warriors were 
great without wielding black 

1538
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,040
fire. 
Magor was giving was given black

1539
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:05,840
fire by Amis and there was no 
disinheriting his own children 

1540
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:08,840
of that. 
Now Magor did usurp Amis's 

1541
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,760
children, but it wasn't because 
of the sword, it was because of 

1542
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,200
other factors. 
And it was, it wasn't done with 

1543
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:16,320
the sword either. 
That was more about Valerian. 

1544
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:18,440
That's certainly had more to do 
with it. 

1545
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:23,120
And of course Amon, not Amon the
Dragon Knight, but Amon's son of

1546
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:27,120
Jaharis and Alsan, the first 
born son of theirs, who was 

1547
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:28,960
father of Raines the Queen who 
never was. 

1548
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:33,200
He was master of laws and Prince
of Dragonstone and a great 

1549
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,680
warrior, and he didn't wield 
either Black Fire or Dark 

1550
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:36,920
Sister. 
So, yeah, there's just, there's 

1551
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:38,840
some good examples, historical 
examples Darren could have 

1552
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,240
pointed to. 
And Baylor probably had, you 

1553
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:43,000
know, enough of an education to 
have already known about these 

1554
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:43,960
figures. 
So it would just be like a 

1555
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,320
reminder, you know, like, you 
know, think of your great, 

1556
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,080
great, great, great grandfather 
this, who did this and that, you

1557
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:55,000
know, And furthermore, Darren 
again, using the path of least 

1558
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,600
resistance, using the path of 
peace, using clever moved, 

1559
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,160
subtle maneuvers rather than 
violent, you know, public 

1560
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:04,680
displays, things like that. 
Darren would devalue the 

1561
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:08,000
ancestral swords in general by 
giving Dark Sister to blood. 

1562
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,840
Raven is sort of further 
suggested that these weren't 

1563
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,280
that big a deal. 
So it kind of devalued Black 

1564
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:16,560
Fire by giving Dark Sister 
blood. 

1565
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:17,920
It was pretty clever. 
Now we don't know when that 

1566
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:23,240
happened, but it was at some 
point, you know, blood. 

1567
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:27,880
Raven was only 7 at the start of
the Squires tournament, so it 

1568
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,320
wasn't that early, but of course
he couldn't have done it when 

1569
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:33,440
Aegon was still alive anyway. 
But so this came at some point 

1570
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:36,000
later and Darren would also 
start giving. 

1571
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:38,480
The the sooner he does it 
though, the sooner it has the 

1572
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:44,000
effect right, the more clear it 
is to to that it's meant to have

1573
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,880
that effect, the the quicker it 
does have that effect that I, I 

1574
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,200
feel like he probably did it 
like so if he's 7 at that 

1575
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,920
tournament and and Aegon died 
two years later. 

1576
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:55,440
I think he gave the sword of 
blood Raven when he was like 9 

1577
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:56,040
or 10 years. 
Old. 

1578
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:59,280
That's what I think, yeah. 
Now, there's also the opposite 

1579
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:03,600
side reactions where there may 
be Baylor's close relatives 

1580
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,880
would be, you know, having their
own reactions to the Black Fire 

1581
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,880
incident. 
But what about Damon's people? 

1582
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,560
Like if Dana the Defiant was 
still alive, she'd be like, 

1583
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,160
yeah, he deserves that, you 
know, and he she might even be 

1584
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,320
outspoken about it. 
And that might rankle some 

1585
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:22,600
feathers even more because it's 
it's a public discussion about 

1586
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,520
things like this that maybe 
you're better kept private. 

1587
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:26,840
So it's just everyone's 
gossiping and all that. 

1588
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,440
So the whole discourse is a 
little loud perhaps, and it 

1589
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:33,120
might be it might offend some 
people. 

1590
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,400
She might be saying things like,
oh, he's does he if she says he 

1591
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:38,680
deserves this and people take 
that to me and he deserves to be

1592
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,840
king, you know, public 
statements. 

1593
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:45,080
So one of the problems with them
is they can be misinterpreted by

1594
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,800
people. 
You can you can read things that

1595
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:51,000
aren't there. 
And in the world like this, 

1596
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:55,120
where most of the information is
second hand anyway, you got 

1597
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,840
people inserting their own 
biases in these statements in 

1598
01:19:57,840 --> 01:19:59,600
the game of telephone is all the
more toxic. 

1599
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:04,320
So that could have really gotten
back to the Red Faction, which 

1600
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,400
wasn't the Red Faction yet, but 
the people that would eventually

1601
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:09,080
become the Red Faction. 
They might hear all this talk 

1602
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,240
about how oh, look at them 
uppity. 

1603
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,840
Well, they wouldn't be the black
fires yet. 

1604
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,400
They just got the sword. 
But this whoever here, they 

1605
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,440
would be referred to at the 
stage they like, oh, that look 

1606
01:20:20,440 --> 01:20:23,760
at them stepping out of line, 
you know, this kind of thing. 

1607
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,160
So. 
Yeah, it's very interesting. 

1608
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:30,800
Now, maybe Damon, maybe Dana, 
the Defiant wasn't even alive at

1609
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,360
this point. 
So this this might not have even

1610
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:33,400
happened. 
But there would have been some 

1611
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,440
fans of Damon, you know, he 
would have had his entourage or,

1612
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:39,640
or whatever, and they would have
been all for it. 

1613
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:41,800
So that the bottom line is still
there. 

1614
01:20:42,440 --> 01:20:44,480
The question for another time. 
I don't think we asked this in 

1615
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:47,240
the Damon Blackfyre episode. 
Would he have gotten a dragon if

1616
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:48,880
they were still around? 
Is someone does? 

1617
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,760
Does a bastard, a double 
Targaryen bastard, get a dragon?

1618
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:54,680
Does that? 
Like who qualifies for Dragons 

1619
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:55,640
and who doesn't? 
You know? 

1620
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,680
I think he would have been 
allowed to claim one probably 

1621
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:01,160
given how popular he was, but 
it's interesting. 

1622
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,480
Could they have stopped him? 
Good question, too. 

1623
01:21:04,480 --> 01:21:06,160
Yeah, well, Amen. 
Just pick one, right? 

1624
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,520
Yeah, what if they just say no, 
you can't have one or just 

1625
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:11,080
banned him from trying? 
But what if he got one anyway? 

1626
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:13,720
Would they make him give it up? 
I mean, yeah, I don't know. 

1627
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,720
Once he's. 
Bonded to him. 

1628
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:16,560
How can they make them? 
Yeah. 

1629
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,200
Can you make them give? 
I think one way or the other he 

1630
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:20,200
would have got one. 
That's right. 

1631
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,880
Nina points out Damon tried to 
give his own mistress a dragon 

1632
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:26,480
egg. 
They made him. 

1633
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:30,240
They made him give that back. 
But still, like if if that was 

1634
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:33,120
even remotely on the table, then
I think Damon Blackfriars 

1635
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:36,840
several levels higher in terms 
of like he's at least got the 

1636
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,800
Targaryen blood like Mazaria did
not. 

1637
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,440
So that's not a question for 
Baylor. 

1638
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,400
He definitely would have gotten 
a dragon, even though he looks 

1639
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,160
Martel like, yeah, that wouldn't
matter. 

1640
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:52,760
So and would he who would he 
have married to if he if he if 

1641
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:55,280
it wasn't for the incest 
marriage is being kind of out of

1642
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:58,440
fashion in this era. 
Interesting to point out for 

1643
01:21:58,440 --> 01:21:59,480
another discussion for another 
time. 

1644
01:21:59,480 --> 01:22:01,920
The incest marriages came back 
pretty quickly after this era, 

1645
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,160
like off and on. 
But this is the era when they 

1646
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,280
were pretty off. 
He might have married his aunt 

1647
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:08,440
Daenerys. 
That's my best guess. 

1648
01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:10,040
The one that married Maron 
Martel. 

1649
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,560
But then who? 
How would they have united the 

1650
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,360
realm then? 
So yeah, maybe not, I don't 

1651
01:22:15,440 --> 01:22:18,960
know. 
But very likely not the person 

1652
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:20,880
he did marry, which we'll 
discuss in the second-half 

1653
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:22,800
because this marriage was a very
unusual. 

1654
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:26,640
And we'll also discuss Damon's 
marriage and a few other things.

1655
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:29,520
Our midway point in the episode 
is here. 

1656
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:33,960
The year 184, Aegon has passed 
the king, Aegon the Forth, the 

1657
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:35,600
unworthy. 
But on his deathbed, he made 

1658
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:38,760
that famous, well, infamous 
rather, decree legitimizing his 

1659
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,280
bastards, all of them. 
The man most responsible for 

1660
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:43,640
taking care of the mess he made,
not to mention the other messes 

1661
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,000
the unworthy king made, was of 
course his son, now King Garon. 

1662
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:49,680
And the next most important 
figure is our subject, Baylor. 

1663
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,360
Not yet called Baylor, breaks 
beer, but earning that 

1664
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:56,600
reputation, who is now the Crown
Prince of Dragonstone upon the 

1665
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,240
death of his grandfather. 
So his responsibilities, his 

1666
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,480
proximity to the throne, all 
these things are on the upswing 

1667
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:06,920
and let's see how he handled it.
And we come back for the 

1668
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,000
second-half here. 
Shout out to patron Matthew 

1669
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:14,160
Chase, who correctly predicted 
in our poll that this would be a

1670
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,120
2 episode topic. 
You nailed it, Matthew. 

1671
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,000
You did indeed. 
When you said it, I was like, 

1672
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:23,680
yeah, I commented, I responded, 
your comments said yeah, you 

1673
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,760
know, you're probably right 
about that, and indeed very much

1674
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:30,320
so. 
We're a couple months out from 

1675
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:32,880
starting Fire and Blood for 
Valeritas. 

1676
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,480
That'll be our weekly episodes 
for quite a while going forward.

1677
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:40,480
Right before that starts will be
your last chance to get in as a 

1678
01:23:40,480 --> 01:23:42,960
$2.00 a month patron. 
That price level will be going 

1679
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:44,960
away. 
But if you get in now, you can 

1680
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:46,840
be grandfathered in. 
It will stay that way for as 

1681
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:48,960
long as you keep it. 
So you can lock in that lower 

1682
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,600
price for the foreseeable future
if you are so inclined. 

1683
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:56,440
That will keep you in the loop 
for future bonus episodes. 

1684
01:23:56,440 --> 01:23:58,560
Whenever they come out. 
You'll get them sometimes a bit 

1685
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,800
early. 
You'll also potentially get 

1686
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:04,960
access to scripts, a cool 
nickname with some shout outs 

1687
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,000
here and there, depending on 
what level you choose. 

1688
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:10,840
And just, yeah, go to 
patreon.com/history of Westeros,

1689
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:15,720
see the level that's right for 
you, and sign up to support your

1690
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:17,240
favorite or one of your favorite
shows. 

1691
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,880
Assuming that's us. 
If not, well, too bad for us, 

1692
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,400
but enjoy anyway because we 
still appreciate you being a 

1693
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:24,960
listener. 
I got to say, by the way, not to

1694
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:27,680
distract too much or maybe this 
is even arrogant or 

1695
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,880
unprivileged, but man, I feel 
like $2.00 that's that's too 

1696
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:32,480
cheap, that's too good of a 
deal. 

1697
01:24:32,480 --> 01:24:34,280
Like how much do you spend at a 
movie? 

1698
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,840
A 2 1/2 hour movie is like 15 or
20 bucks. 

1699
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,000
We do 2 1/2 hour movies 4 * a 
month. 

1700
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:42,000
Hey, yeah. 
I mean, you've got a point 

1701
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:47,120
there, Sean, with the swirl of 
possibilities largely rooted in 

1702
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:50,520
the unknowns of individual 
personalities, Damon and Baylor 

1703
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,840
being the central example there.
But there's lots of other 

1704
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:55,120
examples. 
We've run into this question 

1705
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,280
many times. 
It's compelling and we wish we 

1706
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,000
knew more. 
But it's also why Hollywood 

1707
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,920
looks at these things and nods 
knowingly, seeing the potential 

1708
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:03,160
for so much of this on the 
screen. 

1709
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,800
They look at these relationships
and these unknowns and and 

1710
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:09,720
without specifics, they can 
still look at it and see a lot 

1711
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:14,440
of greatness or possible 
greatness. 2 Princess who are 

1712
01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:16,400
close to perfect. 
Those imperfections are the 

1713
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,000
source of much debate and 
factionalizing. 

1714
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:21,560
Damon's a bastard. 
Well, Baylor is Dornish. 

1715
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:23,480
Damon looks like a perfect 
Targaryen. 

1716
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:28,160
Baylor looks like a Martel. 
Yeah, Damon might have been the 

1717
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:32,760
better warrior, but Baylor was 
pretty much unbeatable, except 

1718
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,920
by someone like Damon, perhaps, 
and there wasn't really anyone 

1719
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,320
else like him. 
And no advantage, though, is 

1720
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:40,640
greater than birth, which is 
clearly in Baylor's favor. 

1721
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,840
So I know we talked about a lot 
of those things during the first

1722
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:45,720
half, but I wanted to summarize 
them here going into the 

1723
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,520
second-half. 
So Baylor had a lot of 

1724
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,840
responsibility and pressure from
an early age. 

1725
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,000
As we discussed, it never let 
up. 

1726
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:58,600
In fact, it probably got more so
as he got older, in part because

1727
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:02,440
he was not only able to handle 
most of it, but rise above it. 

1728
01:26:02,440 --> 01:26:05,080
An unfortunate potential side 
effect of being good at solving 

1729
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,760
problems is that you were handed
a lot of problems to solve. 

1730
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:09,880
Like, oh, you're good at this. 
Well, let's give you more 

1731
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,200
problems. 
So it started in a hurry when 

1732
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:16,920
his father became king in 184. 
Daron ascended at age 30 and 

1733
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:18,480
Baylor was 13 when this 
happened. 

1734
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:22,800
So he became Crown Prince as a 
13 year old. 

1735
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,920
His father started off with 
major reforms, which Baylor 

1736
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:29,640
would have been hearing the 
logic of. 

1737
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:32,400
This would have been part of the
decisions, part of his counsel. 

1738
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:35,840
We've seen how often the the 
first born is just right there 

1739
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,440
with the father for all these 
important decision making 

1740
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:42,440
sessions. 
Or not always, but often. 

1741
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:45,600
How often the first born son? 
Is right there. 

1742
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:46,840
Yeah, you're right. 
First born son. 

1743
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:49,360
Yeah, that does. 
That does require a caveat in 

1744
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:54,840
the setting. 
First off, Daron did sack the 

1745
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:56,760
small council, getting rid of 
Aegon's appointments. 

1746
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:59,120
They were all very corrupt. 
He choose new, new people all 

1747
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:01,920
around. 
Maybe Baylor was part of that 

1748
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:03,800
decision making process on who 
to appoint. 

1749
01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:06,440
She may have had a little bit of
a say they would want him to be 

1750
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,480
involved. 
He didn't say with the gold 

1751
01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:10,360
cloaks rooting out corruption 
there. 

1752
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:12,560
Took a year to settle that 
apparently. 

1753
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,880
Because while it's easy enough 
to maybe fire the people at the 

1754
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,560
top, it's harder to root out 
corruption amongst the rank and 

1755
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:21,840
file amongst the lower ranking 
officers. 

1756
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,480
It's harder to like find that 
because while it can be a big 

1757
01:27:24,480 --> 01:27:28,040
problem, it's smaller scale 
that's just not as obvious when 

1758
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,800
you're at the top looking for 
the smaller problems. 

1759
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:34,240
Baylor himself wouldn't have 
been on the small council at 

1760
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:36,800
this point, as we said, but he 
was being groomed for it. 

1761
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:40,000
He would eventually be handed 
the king, and it seems likely 

1762
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:42,520
his father had that in mind 
already at this point. 

1763
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,240
He's like, my son is very 
capable. 

1764
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:47,520
And the best way to make sure 
he's going to be a good king is 

1765
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,840
to make sure he's taking part in
all these responsibilities that 

1766
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,880
he'll have his own decisions to 
make on when he's when he's 

1767
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:55,880
older. 
So that seems pretty 

1768
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:57,880
straightforward. 
And he would have, of course, 

1769
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:00,120
been very influenced by his 
father's demeanor. 

1770
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:04,320
And we can say that with 
confidence because adult Baylor 

1771
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:06,560
did share a lot of his father's 
traits. 

1772
01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:09,440
But Baylor could pull it off 
better than his father in a lot 

1773
01:28:09,440 --> 01:28:12,120
of ways because Daron was mocked
for his physique. 

1774
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,760
Baylor was physically gifted. 
So that's why when we said the 

1775
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,600
beginning in the opening 
statement in the intro talk 

1776
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,760
about how people really look 
forward to Baylor being king in 

1777
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:26,840
a lot of ways, because he was 
not just had the personality and

1778
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:28,560
demeanor of a king, he looked 
like 1. 

1779
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:30,760
And as we've seen in Westeros, 
they care about that. 

1780
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:33,640
I don't think I don't personally
think they should, but they 

1781
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:35,560
clearly do. 
You mean you get that right away

1782
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:40,040
in the Game of Thrones when 
Jamie looks like a king to John 

1783
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:43,880
and and Tyrion stands as tall as
a king with it when his shadow 

1784
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:46,040
is cast. 
So this is all this is just this

1785
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:50,000
is how people think of this 
office of king. 

1786
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:53,480
It's you're supposed to look 
like a king, you know, and act 

1787
01:28:53,480 --> 01:28:55,120
like one. 
Well, Darren acted like one, but

1788
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,400
according to their, you know, 
ideal model, he didn't look like

1789
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:03,200
1 Daylor did, except for looking
Dornish, which that was a part 

1790
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:05,520
that was a small problem, but 
not for everyone. 

1791
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:07,240
He. 
Might have looked like a king, 

1792
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:08,960
but not a Targaryen king there. 
You go. 

1793
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:11,240
That's a good way to put it. 
Yeah, I like that. 

1794
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:15,400
But it was still, despite these 
small problems, probably one of 

1795
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,240
the most effective father, son, 
king, Crown Prince pairings 

1796
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:20,680
we've seen. 
Darren may have been 

1797
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,560
particularly grateful for that, 
given how contentious his 

1798
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:25,560
father's relationship with him 
was. 

1799
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,120
He's like, I can work with my 
son in a way I was never able to

1800
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:31,520
work with my father because my 
father was Aegon the Unworthy. 

1801
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,200
I mean, I've got a good son, 
Baylor, to work with here. 

1802
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,760
And Baylor may have also seen 
that because he saw how terrible

1803
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:40,440
his grandfather was. 
He's like, thank the seven that 

1804
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:43,680
I have a father like this and 
not like my grandfather. 

1805
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:48,080
So, I mean, because again, let's
repeat just how distinctly 

1806
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:51,560
obvious it was. 
Like, but in some families, you 

1807
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:55,880
kind of lose sight of who's 
right and who's wrong when 

1808
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:58,800
you're so in it right. 
But it's just so much easier. 

1809
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:00,560
To tell or when everyone's 
wrong, or when everyone's wrong.

1810
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,480
Yeah, but here it's just so much
easier to tell now. 

1811
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,360
A good example. 
This is why we talked back about

1812
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:10,240
who would have been potential 
idol figures or, or people to 

1813
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:12,280
emulate in the Targaryen 
history. 

1814
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:15,600
Jarius worked really well with 
his son Eamon and then with 

1815
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,600
Bailon after Eamon died. 
So of course, those both ended 

1816
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:20,720
in tragedy. 
So they're too similar because 

1817
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:25,920
this one will too. 
But yeah, still, those would be 

1818
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:30,400
maybe what they were trying to 
project. 

1819
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:34,080
Like we're the next Jairus and 
Ayman or Jairus and Bailon, 

1820
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,200
whichever. 
And this point about Deron's own

1821
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:39,280
relationship with his father is 
an important one. 

1822
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:41,440
You know, rights. 
Aegon the 4th and not just hated

1823
01:30:41,440 --> 01:30:44,240
Deron, he's specifically and 
publicly acted to undermine him,

1824
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:46,880
tried to disinherit him. 
This is calling it a contentious

1825
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:48,880
relationship was a bit of an 
understatement on my part. 

1826
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:51,800
But either way, this is the 
polar opposite. 

1827
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:53,440
Someone you can work with and 
respect. 

1828
01:30:53,440 --> 01:30:57,880
And Baylor like, wants to learn 
from his father and takes these 

1829
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:00,360
lessons to heart. 
And yeah, it must have been just

1830
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:04,160
night and day. 
Like there's other examples of 

1831
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:06,040
kings not getting along well 
with their sons that we can 

1832
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:08,320
point to. 
They're more like Deron and Egg 

1833
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:10,320
on on the opposite end like 
that. 

1834
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:11,960
Like Aries is not getting along 
with Rhaegar those. 

1835
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:13,440
That was a very contentious 
relationship. 

1836
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:17,480
Egg didn't have contentious 
relationships with his children 

1837
01:31:17,480 --> 01:31:19,720
so much as he quarreled with 
them over marriages. 

1838
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:23,120
Like they had differences of 
opinion there, but that wasn't 

1839
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:25,720
the same as like them trying to 
constantly undermine each other.

1840
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,880
But it wasn't, those weren't 
great relationships, at least 

1841
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:32,480
later in life. 
And Makar and his sons, those 

1842
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:35,360
there were some, there were some
struggles there too, although 

1843
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:38,040
also not with one trying to 
overthrow the other. 

1844
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,840
So yeah, really, Deron and Aegon
was about as bad as it got. 

1845
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,400
So what a refreshing not just 
for them personally within the 

1846
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,720
family, but for the realm. 
Like, ah, the king and the 

1847
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:50,280
Prince, they're working 
together, it's great, right? 

1848
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:54,520
Let's take a moment to discuss 
the supernatural though. 

1849
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:57,920
I mean, given the cultural shift
at court, one of the things that

1850
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,800
Darren did apart from his 
reforms politically and getting 

1851
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:05,080
rid of the small council, was he
brought in septons, maesters, 

1852
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:08,080
Part of those, some of them were
Dornish, which was caused some 

1853
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,520
more additional consternation 
about the Dornification of the 

1854
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:13,280
court. 
But that's not really the point 

1855
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:15,360
at the moment. 
We're more in interested in how 

1856
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,640
that affected the magical 
discourse. 

1857
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:21,480
Baylor's court was very pious. 
Derrons is pretty pious too, but

1858
01:32:21,480 --> 01:32:25,960
clearly he wasn't against magic.
Like even Baylor the Blessed 

1859
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:30,000
prayed over his dragon eggs. 
So he, even though he was all 

1860
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:33,720
about the the pious, he still 
had that angle of syncretism 

1861
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:36,640
where they wanted to sort of 
take the best of their own stuff

1862
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,520
and combine it with the faith 
rather than just throw away all 

1863
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:41,560
that old stuff and like, let's 
still keep some of that, you 

1864
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:43,600
know. 
So there was a little like. 

1865
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:46,480
Especially the Dragons. 
Yeah, so it's very utilitarian, 

1866
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:50,080
very like, have it both, have it
your way, you know, have it both

1867
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:53,240
ways, have your cake, eat it 
too, kind of logic. 

1868
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:55,080
But hey, you're the king and 
queen and royal family. 

1869
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,520
You can get away with that. 
Sort of have your cake and eat 

1870
01:32:57,520 --> 01:32:59,440
it too. 
Well, you can't if you're very 

1871
01:32:59,440 --> 01:33:02,240
infinite, but you can if you're 
the Targaryens, at least these 

1872
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:04,960
Targaryens. 
So. 

1873
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:06,920
And again, yeah. 
So Darren was pro faith, you 

1874
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:09,280
might say, well, maybe he was 
against the supernatural stuff, 

1875
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:11,400
but really there doesn't seem to
be any indication to that. 

1876
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,960
In addition to the syncretism 
arguments, we have him very much

1877
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,120
trusting Blood Raven. 
Like Blood Raven was one of his 

1878
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:19,640
most trusted companions in 
addition to being his half 

1879
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:21,920
brother. 
And Chiara was apparently just 

1880
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:24,760
allowed to do her thing at court
and no one seemed to be bothered

1881
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:28,560
by that too much. 
Aries his his his next son, 

1882
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:31,160
Daron's son Baylor's younger 
brother was very bookish and 

1883
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:32,840
into this prophet. 
He's the one that this 

1884
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:34,880
rediscovers the Dragons being 
born prophecy. 

1885
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:38,200
So there does not seem to be 
much at all. 

1886
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:41,000
In fact, there seems to be the 
opposite of evidence that they 

1887
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,960
were against supernatural 
studies and magical delving into

1888
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:50,480
prophecies. 
So yeah, now Egg mentions that 

1889
01:33:50,480 --> 01:33:54,520
Aries discovers the prophecy. 
He says that in the mystery 

1890
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:57,720
night, but he doesn't say it was
just like a year ago or two 

1891
01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:59,520
years ago. 
So we don't know when he 

1892
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,880
rediscovered the prophecy. 
So it might have been like 10 

1893
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:05,640
years before Egg makes that 
statement, which would have 

1894
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:08,040
meant it came while Baylor was 
hand. 

1895
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:10,440
But if it did come in the 
ensuing three years after the 

1896
01:34:10,440 --> 01:34:12,440
hedge night that Baylor didn't 
know about that, But that's a 

1897
01:34:12,440 --> 01:34:15,040
pretty big deal. 
I think it's more likely he 

1898
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:16,560
discovered it before Baylor's 
death. 

1899
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:20,960
Baylor breaks Pier's death, that
is then after, but we're not 

1900
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:22,920
sure. 
So at some point Aries found a 

1901
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,160
book that said the Dragons would
come back. 

1902
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:27,520
We don't know when that was. 
It might have been before the 

1903
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:29,360
Hedge 9. 
It might have been after, but 

1904
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:31,080
there's no indication Aries was 
a dreamer. 

1905
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:33,360
There's no indication, certainly
no indication Baylor was a 

1906
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:36,480
dreamer. 
Baylor breaks beer or dare on 

1907
01:34:36,480 --> 01:34:40,440
the good Baylor's brother Ray 
Girl. 

1908
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:44,000
Well, again, there's just he's 
the most unknown of this whole 

1909
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:45,160
group. 
We don't know much about him. 

1910
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:50,360
He was maybe not all mentally 
there, which maybe is a sign he 

1911
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:54,560
had dreams. 
But he maybe he was all mentally

1912
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:56,800
there, but they blew him off 
because he kept going on about 

1913
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:59,640
these dreams. 
Yeah, see, he's the Helena in 

1914
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:01,320
this scenario. 
If they're going to make a 

1915
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:06,800
character a dreamer that wasn't 
made one Regal fits Makar. 

1916
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:08,320
We don't know if he had dreams, 
we don't think he did. 

1917
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:10,840
There's no indication he did. 
But but Makar's children were 

1918
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:15,360
the ones that Eamon said all my 
brothers dreamed of Dragons and 

1919
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,640
killed them all or whatever. 
I forget the exact wording but 

1920
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:20,240
y'all have heard that quote a 
few times on this show and 

1921
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:22,480
elsewhere. 
Not to mention Damon Blackfyre's

1922
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:24,960
son Damon the second did as 
well. 

1923
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:28,280
So there were there was like 
this current generation, the 

1924
01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:31,680
ones born in the one 70s, except
for maybe Bloodraven, there 

1925
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:37,160
wasn't a whole lot of evidence 
of direct supernatural ability 

1926
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:40,920
or aptitude, But right after 
them came a wave of them of 

1927
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:42,800
potential. 
And if not actual. 

1928
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:46,040
So it was, it's definitely part 
of Baylor's life, if even if 

1929
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:48,760
it's not part of his own dreams.
But what? 

1930
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:52,000
So we'll come back to this in 
Part 2 because the the only 

1931
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,240
obvious dream or the one for 
sure besides Damon the second 

1932
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:58,600
was Darren the drunkard and he's
not born until 190 or 191 Right 

1933
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,880
now we're around the year 185. 
So we're we're a few years still

1934
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,040
from that. 
None of make our sons have been 

1935
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:08,960
born yet because Darren was the 
oldest now. 

1936
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:10,640
And Bloodraven also just 
casually points out in the 

1937
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:12,160
mystery night that it. 
Yeah, dreamers. 

1938
01:36:12,440 --> 01:36:13,520
Yeah. 
They come up sometimes in the 

1939
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:15,360
Targaryen family. 
Why not the Blackfires here and 

1940
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,240
there? 
You just kind of casually says 

1941
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:18,400
that. 
So it's pretty well known. 

1942
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:22,080
So there's no way that Baylor 
didn't know about this part of 

1943
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:24,560
his family's history. 
It's just like very clearly a 

1944
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:27,600
part of their history. 
And if this ever hits TV or 

1945
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:29,440
something like that, well, they 
would certainly draw this 

1946
01:36:29,440 --> 01:36:31,560
element out a bit because it's 
just a thing that would be 

1947
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:33,840
happening. 
If Blood Raven had these 

1948
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:35,480
abilities. 
Well, he was only nine years old

1949
01:36:35,480 --> 01:36:38,160
when Darren became king, so it 
may not have been clear. 

1950
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:41,800
And of course with Blood Raven, 
was he having dragon dreams? 

1951
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,400
Was he doing old God's dreams? 
Was he having both? 

1952
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:47,680
It's just no wonder we did 3 
episodes on him. 

1953
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:53,280
And again, Baylor the blessed 
would come back to him. 

1954
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:56,920
He prayed over his dragon eggs, 
but he also had visions. 

1955
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,800
Were they supernatural or they 
just the fact that he was 

1956
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:03,360
fasting like, like crazy and you
see things when you fast, you 

1957
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,640
know, like you have. 
You're going to start seeing 

1958
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:07,200
things if you don't eat for 
several days. 

1959
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:10,120
Like I, I, I think I explained 
at the time, or maybe I didn't 

1960
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:12,080
because we haven't actually done
the Baylor the Blessed episode 

1961
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,960
yet because it's on the shelf. 
I've personally experienced that

1962
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:17,960
hallucinating because of lack of
food and sleep. 

1963
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:20,440
So, yeah, I can speak to that 
from experience. 

1964
01:37:20,440 --> 01:37:22,160
That doesn't mean they were 
dragon dreams, but it doesn't 

1965
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:24,720
mean he didn't have them either.
You know, it could be both, 

1966
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:27,560
yeah. 
Like Baylor, for example, Baylor

1967
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:31,040
the Blessed had a vision telling
him to build what became known 

1968
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:36,600
as the Great Sept of Baylor. 
So, you know, that probably 

1969
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:39,200
doesn't sound like a dragon 
dream, but it was. 

1970
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:42,200
It was something, you know. 
It may not have been magical at 

1971
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:44,760
all though. 
It's interesting for us to 

1972
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:49,360
speculate where the dream came 
from or how to name it properly,

1973
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:52,120
but to these characters 
themselves and the people they 

1974
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:56,880
might tell, it's not like, it's 
not like blood, Raven says. 

1975
01:37:56,880 --> 01:38:00,960
You know, I had this vision of a
usurper coming and they're like,

1976
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:02,960
wait, well, was that vision of 
Dragon Dream? 

1977
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:04,120
No, no, no. 
It was front of faith. 

1978
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:05,920
Oh, well, it doesn't count. 
I don't think that's how the 

1979
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,360
conversation would go. 
Like you had a vision, they're 

1980
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:10,200
not going to care what the 
source of it was. 

1981
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:13,080
That's true, yeah. 
So now we don't know how long 

1982
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:15,120
the Great Sept of Baylor took to
build. 

1983
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:17,480
It was definitely not finished 
during Baylor's life. 

1984
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,680
And it's one of those things 
where, like the Death Star, it 

1985
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:23,960
might have been used before it 
was fully completed. 

1986
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:28,280
Like it you can, for example, 
Daenerys married Maron in the 

1987
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:31,080
year 187, a few years ahead of 
where we are right now at the 

1988
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:33,480
Great Sept. 
That doesn't mean the Great Sept

1989
01:38:33,480 --> 01:38:35,840
was finished, but it was 
finished enough if they could 

1990
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:37,840
hold marriages there. 
So yeah. 

1991
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:41,120
For example, here in Denver, 
they're going to reopen Casa 

1992
01:38:41,120 --> 01:38:44,240
Bonita, but they're not going to
fully open it before they start 

1993
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:46,360
letting guests in, so. 
Right on. 

1994
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:48,400
Now it's big news here in 
Denver. 

1995
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:55,040
Speaking of marriages, with all 
these characters of similar age,

1996
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:57,960
it makes sense they would all 
start to get married around the 

1997
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:00,960
same time because these, you 
know, they're of marriageable 

1998
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:02,680
age. 
And the way it goes with Royals 

1999
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:06,200
is they tend to have their 
betrothals and marriages fairly 

2000
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:08,360
early on, especially when you're
in the line of succession, 

2001
01:39:08,360 --> 01:39:10,400
because alliances are part of 
that. 

2002
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:12,760
And this is where we get 
something a little odd. 

2003
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:21,680
Somewhere between the age of 13 
and 15, which is the year 184 to

2004
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:25,520
186, Baylor would have become 
married to Jenna Dondarian. 

2005
01:39:26,440 --> 01:39:28,760
Highly unusual marriage. 
As I said, a future queen from a

2006
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:30,120
Marcher house. 
Never. 

2007
01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:31,560
Nothing like this has ever 
happened. 

2008
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:34,040
In fact, nothing even close to 
this has ever happened 

2009
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:36,600
intentionally. 
Now, I say intentionally because

2010
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:42,000
this is a really big difference 
when you look at who's been 

2011
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:44,880
queen before. 
There's been some unexpected 

2012
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:48,840
names because of people dying 
unexpectedly. 

2013
01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:53,080
But in terms of we know this 
person's going to become king 

2014
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,880
and queen one day. 
This was the first time in the 

2015
01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:59,640
history of the Targaryen history
history of the Targaryen history

2016
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:07,080
that it wasn't a Baratheon, 
Valerian, or Targaryen for the 

2017
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:10,040
Crown Prince to marry. 
And it was the Donderian, which 

2018
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:12,560
is a far drop in prestige, 
right? 

2019
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:16,280
And you got to think, well, why?
Like, what's the deal here? 

2020
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:18,720
Why did what goes into that 
choice? 

2021
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:20,960
Part of this week's Playing in 
the dare on the good episode. 

2022
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:24,840
But to recap some of it and 
maybe look at it from a little 

2023
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:29,440
bit of a different angle is 
that, well, the Marcher Lords 

2024
01:40:29,440 --> 01:40:32,920
are unhappy that the wars with 
Doran are over. 

2025
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:37,480
This is part of what makes them 
it's their reason to exist, to 

2026
01:40:37,480 --> 01:40:39,600
defend the realm against Dornish
incursions. 

2027
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:41,280
And it's been that way for so 
long. 

2028
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:45,400
All of a sudden their important 
job is gone. 

2029
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:50,040
It doesn't need to exist except 
for unauthorized raids, which 

2030
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:52,680
would still be a thing, but it's
just a big drop in their 

2031
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:56,920
prestige because they're no 
longer needed for this point. 

2032
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:59,040
And that's stinks. 
You know, for some people, 

2033
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:02,040
they're like, we had an 
important job and now we don't. 

2034
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:05,240
We've been we're we're no longer
relevant. 

2035
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:08,520
They don't like that, so he 
lifts them back up by making one

2036
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:12,120
of them queen or eventual queen.
She didn't actually become 

2037
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:13,680
queen, but would have become 
queen. 

2038
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:18,720
So with all that counts. 
Yeah, and it also, it's also 

2039
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:21,840
important because the marchers 
would have been upset that the 

2040
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:24,000
king was going to be half 
Nornish. 

2041
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:28,960
So now they have their stake in 
it that's relatively equal 

2042
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,240
because their children will be 
both, right? 

2043
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:37,680
Warning pun incoming. 
The marchers and the Dornish 

2044
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:40,760
were arch enemies. 
The Dornish would see them as 

2045
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:47,440
March enemies though. 
Boom, by the way. 

2046
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:51,040
I feel like once again, this is 
another example of how times 

2047
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:53,920
were changing. 
You know that it's, it's 

2048
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:56,280
relatively new for the 
Targaryens to be in charge in 

2049
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:58,800
the 1st place. 
And with the Targaryens in 

2050
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:01,440
charge, it's new for them to not
have Dragons backing it up. 

2051
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,960
And so this is precedent 
setting, like not only their 

2052
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:07,880
details of why this particular 
marriage was arranged at this 

2053
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:12,120
time, but it also sets the 
president to marry other houses 

2054
01:42:12,120 --> 01:42:16,960
to get out of this rut of trying
to maintain these certain houses

2055
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:20,680
that Despite that, we still have
the Dance Dragons. 

2056
01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:22,720
You know what I mean? 
That didn't exactly work. 

2057
01:42:23,440 --> 01:42:27,080
So let's spread it out some. 
We're not as worried about the 

2058
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:28,680
dragon blood because there 
aren't Dragons anymore. 

2059
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:32,520
There's all these reasons that 
to do this, and not the least of

2060
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:34,640
which, in my opinion, is to 
establish a new precedent. 

2061
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:37,600
Well said. 
Also well said is what Nina 

2062
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:40,240
writes here. 
Wedding Baylor to Jenna also 

2063
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:43,040
served as a signal that Daron 
was creating a single realm. 

2064
01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:45,680
Not merely joining Dorn in the 
Targaryen Kingdom, but forging A

2065
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,080
unified state. 
Child of Baylor and Jenna would 

2066
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:51,240
be a microcosm of this peace. 
Dornish blood and marcher blood,

2067
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:53,920
each eternally spilled at the 
other's expense, would now be 

2068
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,000
mingled in a single person, A 
future king of the unified state

2069
01:42:57,000 --> 01:42:59,200
of Westeros. 
Yeah, boom. 

2070
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:02,840
Nina's also points out there 
isn't a little bit of an 

2071
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:06,200
exception to the Crown Prince is
only marrying Targaryen, 

2072
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:08,520
Valerian or Baratheon, and 
that's Magor. 

2073
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:11,560
He married like six women and 
had, you know, didn't have any 

2074
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:17,520
real children amongst that. 
So yeah, we could forget about 

2075
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:18,880
Magor. 
They like to forget about Magor.

2076
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:21,880
We don't talk about Magor. 
Yeah, it's the Enconto song. 

2077
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:25,120
It's from Enconto talk about. 
Bruno Oh, yeah. 

2078
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:28,200
OK, I do know that song. 
We don't talk about Magor. 

2079
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:33,440
We'll have to work on that 
workshop, that one further. 

2080
01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:37,120
So the wedding itself would have
been a big deal, given the 

2081
01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:41,920
weight behind this union and 
what it meant for the realm. 

2082
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:46,160
And as you say, Sean, it was a 
signifier of a a change, a big 

2083
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,520
change in this new Westeros that
was emerging. 

2084
01:43:49,400 --> 01:43:52,360
It's a big change because of how
long the state of affairs had 

2085
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:55,640
existed, especially because of 
how it happened. 

2086
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:58,280
It wasn't that one side finally 
defeated the other in combat. 

2087
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:02,240
It was peace, it was marriage, 
it was the you know, the good 

2088
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:05,880
way. 
So a lot of people would have 

2089
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,560
been there probably would have 
been a wedding at Daylord Sept 

2090
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:10,040
as well. 
Again, if it was finished 

2091
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:12,640
enough, because this is even a 
little bit before Daenerys's 

2092
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:15,960
wedding, probably there may have
been people booing. 

2093
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:18,960
It might have been people like 
not happy about it. 

2094
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:21,520
There may have been some some 
people might have been paid to 

2095
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:24,320
riot, you know, like maybe 
someone was there could some 

2096
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:25,760
good stuff could be written 
about this. 

2097
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:27,280
I think This Is Us is all very 
rich. 

2098
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,240
Even though it's just a wedding,
which isn't always the most 

2099
01:44:30,240 --> 01:44:32,720
exciting thing, this could be 
pretty good. 

2100
01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:34,400
There could be some pretty good 
stuff happening here. 

2101
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:36,600
I think if we get this in Fire 
and Blood too, I think it's got 

2102
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:38,720
a lot of potential. 
Just to remind you earlier, 

2103
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,240
again, thinking about the idea 
of what kind of relationship 

2104
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:48,080
Baylor and would have had I I 
want them to have been like 

2105
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:51,040
strong close friends that end up
pitted against each other. 

2106
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:52,200
I think that would make for the 
best time. 

2107
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:54,040
Like Rainier and Allison kind of
like that. 

2108
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:55,000
Yes. 
Exactly. 

2109
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:56,200
I agree, because that worked 
pretty well. 

2110
01:44:56,200 --> 01:44:58,920
They might not want to do that 
twice, but it could be different

2111
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:01,680
enough, you know, because we've 
also already done that. 

2112
01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:03,400
They both hate each other thing 
plenty of time. 

2113
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:04,960
We've seen that more in the 
world. 

2114
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:08,120
You know, rivals from the 
beginning. 

2115
01:45:08,120 --> 01:45:11,280
Yeah, like that's that's that's 
more standard, but it's less 

2116
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:12,120
tragic too. 
Yeah. 

2117
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:14,720
If they're friends and then they
had like the world makes them 

2118
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:17,480
into edit Yeah, I like that more
too. 

2119
01:45:18,280 --> 01:45:19,920
That's why I like the more 
tragic one more. 

2120
01:45:22,240 --> 01:45:24,960
Remember when we meet Baylor in 
the hedge night, which is 25 

2121
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,200
years from now, we're at the 
time we're talking about. 

2122
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:31,960
He's with Lord Dondarian. 
And this will continue to come 

2123
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:33,560
up in other ways. 
It won't do This Dondarian 

2124
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:36,240
connection isn't just a a side 
topic here. 

2125
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:37,480
It's going to come back in Part 
2. 

2126
01:45:38,480 --> 01:45:43,400
Now, before King Aegon's death, 
he had arranged for Damon's 

2127
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:49,000
bride to be Rohan of Tyros, But 
before Damon came of age, Aegon 

2128
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:50,720
passed. 
Now, Daron fulfilled that 

2129
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:53,600
arrangement. 
He went ahead and honored that 

2130
01:45:54,480 --> 01:45:57,560
match. 
And probably around the same 

2131
01:45:57,560 --> 01:46:00,520
time as Baylor's wedding to 
Jenna, maybe a little before, 

2132
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:04,800
I'm guessing before, not as big 
a wedding because it's not the 

2133
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:07,240
Crown Prince, but a pretty big 
deal, you know? 

2134
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:12,160
And I, I'm guessing it was 
before because we know that they

2135
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:14,200
had kids right away. 
In the same year, in the year 

2136
01:46:14,200 --> 01:46:19,160
184, the twins Aegon and Amon 
Blackfyre were born, which 

2137
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:21,800
implies the marriage was that 
same year earlier that year. 

2138
01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:24,680
Because Damon wasn't even 14 
until 184. 

2139
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:26,280
So he probably wasn't married 
when he was 13. 

2140
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:28,440
He was knighted young, but he 
probably wasn't married young 

2141
01:46:28,440 --> 01:46:31,680
because that was up to that was 
up to Daron. 

2142
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:34,800
He was a little more about 
traditions here. 14 is still 

2143
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:37,760
pretty young. 
Either way, that does strongly 

2144
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:40,080
imply that he, the Damon, was 
married before Baylor. 

2145
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:46,960
And unusually, the Archon of Tie
Rush was paid a dowry for his 

2146
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:49,760
daughter to marry Damon, where 
it's usually the woman's family 

2147
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:51,520
that pays the dowry. 
But I think this is because 

2148
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:54,800
Damon was a bastard. 
Damon was also given money by 

2149
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:58,160
Daron to build a small castle on
the Blackwater rush. 

2150
01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:00,800
We're not sure where it was, but
it was probably close because 

2151
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:04,040
again, Daron quote, UN quote 
kept the great bastards close. 

2152
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:06,560
And it's on the Blackwater rush,
which is, you know, the King 

2153
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:08,680
King's Landing is also on the 
Blackwater rush. 

2154
01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:13,360
It's probably gone now, though 
that keep because, you know, 

2155
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:17,280
Bloodraven tried to eradicate 
all signs of David Blackfyres 

2156
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:21,680
existed so that people wouldn't 
like visit the red grass field 

2157
01:47:21,680 --> 01:47:23,800
and leave flowers and, you know,
leave. 

2158
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:25,200
He doesn't want them leaving 
homages. 

2159
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:28,320
And so they would, if he had to 
keep, they would go there. 

2160
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:31,880
He'd probably raise that thing 
to the ground, especially 

2161
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:33,680
because we haven't heard of it 
at any point elsewhere. 

2162
01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:36,080
Like it's the thing that 
apparently used to exist. 

2163
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:39,840
Maybe it's someone else's now. 
But yeah, I think, I think 

2164
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:44,720
Brendan tore that thing down. 
Now, of course, another 

2165
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:46,960
important marriage here. 
Much is made of Daron. 

2166
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:52,000
I mean, Damon wanting to marry 
his half sister Daenerys, the 

2167
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,920
King's much younger sister. 
Remember, Daron and and Daenerys

2168
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:58,600
were brother, sister. 
They were born very far apart. 

2169
01:47:59,520 --> 01:48:04,560
I think it was 15 years apart in
fact, so big gap in their age 

2170
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:08,360
there. 
Now, Darren was not up for that.

2171
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:11,480
He's like, no, first of all, 
it's a rumor that he even that 

2172
01:48:11,480 --> 01:48:14,480
Damon even wanted this. 
And it's also a rumor that he it

2173
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:17,400
upset him afterwards. 
He thought maybe he could have 

2174
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:20,680
two wives, which is also a 
rumor. 

2175
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:23,040
We don't know if that's true. 
There's some evidence of that. 

2176
01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:25,360
It's suggested that the Aegon 
was going to allow that but take

2177
01:48:25,360 --> 01:48:28,640
and have him take two wives. 
But obviously that didn't 

2178
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:32,200
happen. 
And De Lore may have had a say 

2179
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:33,880
in that, like they may have 
discussed it with his father, 

2180
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:36,080
may have said like, yeah, no, we
we're not going to bring back 

2181
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:38,080
polygamy. 
You know, no, let's not do that.

2182
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:40,640
Especially in an era of hewing 
closer to the faith. 

2183
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:44,600
It's very much not in there 
under their umbrella. 

2184
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:46,280
Yeah, They don't like that. 
They don't like double 

2185
01:48:46,280 --> 01:48:47,000
marriages. 
They're not. 

2186
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:52,440
They're not big on polygamy. 
So again, with respect to not 

2187
01:48:52,440 --> 01:48:57,640
knowing which rumors were true 
either way, the bottom line was 

2188
01:48:57,720 --> 01:49:01,600
Damon the married Rohan of 
Tairash and this very political 

2189
01:49:02,320 --> 01:49:06,360
there's there's suggestions that
Aegon arranged this marriage 

2190
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:09,320
originally to get the Tairashi 
fleet maybe to make more 

2191
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:14,120
attempts at attacking Dorn. 
And so that's why this decision 

2192
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:18,600
needed to be handled delicately 
because, well, we. 

2193
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:21,760
So it went upset Dorn. 
Dorn was probably aware of the 

2194
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:23,400
political machinations Aegon was
making. 

2195
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:25,960
He certainly knew he tried to 
send a fleet against them. 

2196
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:28,720
So he may have been looking to 
get a new fleet by allying with 

2197
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:30,960
Tyraj. 
So it would have been a delicate

2198
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:35,160
scenario potentially. 
But Darren wanted to honor 

2199
01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:39,400
agreements and just turn them 
into something more passive. 

2200
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:42,600
He wanted to get rid of the 
element of violence that was 

2201
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:45,960
lurking behind these moves and 
make them smoother, smooth them 

2202
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:48,360
out rather than breaking the 
deal, you know? 

2203
01:49:48,440 --> 01:49:51,840
And then Baylor seemed to follow
his lead on all that, which is a

2204
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:55,320
continuing theme. 
Baylor, learning from his father

2205
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:58,520
and carrying forward a lot of 
those wishes, continued to seem 

2206
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:00,400
to work together well even at 
this young age. 

2207
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:04,720
It took a full 2 years to 
negotiate Marrons Martel's 

2208
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:09,680
marriage to Daenerys, which that
two year period apparently 

2209
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:12,480
overlapped with all these other 
marriages because while the two 

2210
01:50:12,480 --> 01:50:16,320
year negotiation was happening, 
that's apparently when Damon 

2211
01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:18,920
married Rohan and Baylor married
Jenna. 

2212
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:23,000
So a lot of this new Kingdom is 
emerging. 

2213
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:27,080
The alliances, the things 
keeping it held up, the people 

2214
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:30,160
that are going to fight for it 
later, all being set up here. 

2215
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:32,280
Very good, very good groundwork 
here. 

2216
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:40,720
Our last section of the day is 
called Breakspear because it is 

2217
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:42,920
the moment where he earns his 
nickname. 

2218
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:45,320
We have to call him Baylor 
Breakspear to avoid confusion 

2219
01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:48,880
with the other Baylor's, but he 
didn't earn that nickname until 

2220
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:52,360
the year 188 or run. 
Wait a 7? 

2221
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:54,280
Excuse me when he was 17? 
I wonder I. 

2222
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:56,800
Wonder what they did call him up
to that point? 

2223
01:50:56,800 --> 01:50:58,880
Young Breakspear or young 
Baylor? 

2224
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:03,520
Baylor junior Little Bailey. 
Brake pair. 

2225
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:05,720
Brakes pair. 
Yeah. 

2226
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,160
It's like, it's like the damp 
hair. 

2227
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:11,840
Yeah, instead of damp hair. 
Damn fair people. 

2228
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:14,440
Cuz people like, including 
myself read it as damn fair, you

2229
01:51:14,440 --> 01:51:16,120
know? 
But no, this is brakes pair. 

2230
01:51:16,120 --> 01:51:17,680
Yeah, I like that. 
It's brakes pair. 

2231
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:20,120
Yeah. 
He did not like pears. 

2232
01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:29,880
He was a Peach guy in the great 
Peach versus Pair wars of 189. 

2233
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:38,600
Many of fruit was broken. 
Those stone fruits went to war 

2234
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:43,000
as Crown Prince. 
He was of course, Prince of 

2235
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:45,480
Dragonstone, but again, he 
probably like his father, 

2236
01:51:45,480 --> 01:51:48,320
probably spent most of his time 
at court helping his father rule

2237
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:51,680
and learning from him and and 
working side by side. 

2238
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:54,400
So he was probably there. 
Actually, let me amend that. 

2239
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:57,440
He was certainly there in the 
year 187 when his father led the

2240
01:51:57,440 --> 01:52:01,560
procession with Marin Martel 
marching through the streets 

2241
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:05,760
towards the Great Sept where 
they laid that golden wreath of 

2242
01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:08,880
Baylor's statue and said your 
work is complete. 

2243
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:12,440
Baylor in front of probably a 
monstrous crowd, right? 

2244
01:52:12,440 --> 01:52:16,080
Because they wanted to show this
off and announce the piece to as

2245
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:19,120
many people as possible. 
Make a as big a spectacle out of

2246
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:22,120
it as possible. 
This is followed by a wedding 

2247
01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:24,560
tournament as there so often is 
wedding tournaments. 

2248
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:28,040
So the tournament would have 
been giant as well, most likely 

2249
01:52:28,040 --> 01:52:33,200
a lot of people watching. 
And fittingly, at the end of the

2250
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:38,920
tournament, Damon Blackfyre met 
Prince Baylor Targaryen for the 

2251
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:41,800
final tilt. 
Now we're not sure What built up

2252
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:43,440
to this is another thing. 
I'm looking forward to seeing 

2253
01:52:43,440 --> 01:52:46,840
exactly how this came about, 
Sean, with our discussion on 

2254
01:52:46,840 --> 01:52:49,320
tournaments before, there could 
have been some arranging to make

2255
01:52:49,320 --> 01:52:52,920
sure the two luminaries met in 
the finals, like a little 

2256
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:56,240
arranging of the matches to make
sure they didn't meet prior to 

2257
01:52:56,240 --> 01:52:57,640
that, to make sure it was at the
end. 

2258
01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:00,880
But it's also possible that it 
was one of those ones where you 

2259
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:04,600
get to challenge who you want. 
And they did it like they they 

2260
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:07,400
made it a spectacle on purpose. 
Who knows who arranged it, but 

2261
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:10,120
it's an awfully convenient that 
they fought right at the final 

2262
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:11,840
tilt. 
So yeah. 

2263
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:17,560
We have in our minds this idea 
of like brackets, you know, like

2264
01:53:17,560 --> 01:53:20,000
tournaments are a pretty kind of
standard thing in modern 

2265
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:22,880
society. 
But in in the real world, 

2266
01:53:22,880 --> 01:53:25,880
tournaments of this sort weren't
always run the same way. 

2267
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:28,440
They didn't always have neat 
brackets and in Martins world 

2268
01:53:28,440 --> 01:53:32,680
clearly we've seen different 
formats for it like the the the 

2269
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:36,200
specific one and and the hedge 
knight was not a standard racket

2270
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:37,040
tournament at all. 
So. 

2271
01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:38,160
Yeah, that's true. 
Yeah. 

2272
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:39,240
They had the tapping of the 
shield. 

2273
01:53:39,240 --> 01:53:40,280
You get to challenge who you 
want. 

2274
01:53:40,280 --> 01:53:42,400
They had the 5 champions and you
could pick who you want. 

2275
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:44,560
Which of them? 
You wanted to challenge, Yeah, 

2276
01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:47,960
rounds of anyone in a crowd 
challenging one of these five 

2277
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:50,880
and rotating out and like a 
completely different from any 

2278
01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:54,160
other formats. 
And by the way, when Harding was

2279
01:53:54,160 --> 01:53:58,600
injured because of Aryan 
cheating and Spearing his horse,

2280
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:06,440
they decided on suggestion that 
they should only have 4 

2281
01:54:06,440 --> 01:54:09,080
champions and that the 5th 
champion he should be able to 

2282
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:10,960
retire as a champion and no one 
should be to challenge him 

2283
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:14,720
because he broke his leg. 
Whose suggestion was that Baylor

2284
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:18,760
breaks Pier, the chivalrous, the
honorable, the thinking of 

2285
01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:21,080
trying to think of everyone and 
trying to make sure no one's 

2286
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:23,320
feelings are rankled and trying 
to keep the drama from 

2287
01:54:23,320 --> 01:54:24,840
developing. 
Someone who sees the drama 

2288
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:26,920
develop ahead of time and shuts 
it down. 

2289
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:29,120
Someone who has a lot of 
experience with that because he 

2290
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:32,920
saw so much of it as a child, 
like so much chord drama. 

2291
01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:36,120
He's like, no, I'm good at 
seeing this coming and I have 

2292
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,800
the authority to shut it down 
and people will listen to me. 

2293
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:42,520
And he's like his suggestion, 
Lord Ashford's like, you're 

2294
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:44,960
right, Prince Baylor, let's do 
that. 

2295
01:54:45,960 --> 01:54:47,760
You know, it's a reasonable 
suggestion too. 

2296
01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:49,720
You know what I mean? 
There's a lot of other things 

2297
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:51,720
you could have suggested that 
people might have been like, 

2298
01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:54,160
well, what about this and how 
about if? 

2299
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:56,440
And well, that's not fair 
because but this one's like, 

2300
01:54:56,680 --> 01:54:58,920
yeah, good idea. 
Like then on, there's not really

2301
01:54:58,920 --> 01:55:00,600
any argument. 
Yeah, and he had to rule against

2302
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:05,320
his own, you know, nephew Aryan 
to to make that ruling too. 

2303
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:07,960
So what, you know, he he showed 
that he wasn't biased against 

2304
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:10,080
his own family there. 
So that was that looked really 

2305
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:13,040
good, you know, and you're like,
yeah, he's justice is justice, 

2306
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,960
right? 
But back to this tournament. 

2307
01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:19,360
This is before Baylor was known 
as a deliverer of justice. 

2308
01:55:19,480 --> 01:55:22,120
He's just, you know, still a 
young up and coming Prince at 

2309
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:25,000
this point. 
We can only imagine the setting 

2310
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:29,200
here, the stage, the excitement 
as they tilted repeatedly back 

2311
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:32,000
and forth. 
And we know they did back and 

2312
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:35,280
forth because that's exactly why
he got the name break spear 

2313
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:38,480
because it took a lot of tilts. 
He kept breaking lances, 

2314
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:42,360
splintering them. 
Eventually, Baylor emerged the 

2315
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:43,720
victor, knocked him off his 
horse. 

2316
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:48,400
It must have been such a moment,
like a like the overtime in the 

2317
01:55:48,400 --> 01:55:51,960
finals of some sporting match, 
overtime in the Super Bowl, 

2318
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:56,840
extra innings in the World 
Series, fifth quarter in NBA or 

2319
01:55:56,840 --> 01:55:59,680
the 4th period in NHL overtime. 
I forget how that works. 

2320
01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:03,120
Really exciting. 
The equivalent of sudden death, 

2321
01:56:03,120 --> 01:56:06,040
except without, you know, death 
being just as not literal in 

2322
01:56:06,040 --> 01:56:08,760
this setting for once as as it 
is in the real world sports. 

2323
01:56:09,840 --> 01:56:11,480
Well, yeah, right. 
The potential was there. 

2324
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:13,880
One of them could have had an 
could have had an accident, and 

2325
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:17,520
it would have been really 
exciting, the roar, the crowd, 

2326
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:21,080
minus the disappointment of some
of them who really wanted Damon 

2327
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:22,680
to win because they would have 
been there would have been some 

2328
01:56:22,680 --> 01:56:27,320
like rooting against the Dornish
guy or rooting for the Valyrian 

2329
01:56:27,320 --> 01:56:28,720
guy or rooting for that. 
Yeah. 

2330
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:31,040
Just they had their favorites 
for whatever reason. 

2331
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:32,320
And it's more than just their 
favorites. 

2332
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:36,120
It also represented like who 
they thought was more worthy, 

2333
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:38,120
which faction they thought was 
better. 

2334
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:41,240
A lot of the same vibes in 
episode 1 of House of the Dragon

2335
01:56:41,240 --> 01:56:44,360
season one with that tournament 
sort of showcasing off some of 

2336
01:56:44,360 --> 01:56:48,640
the same things here. 
So that was a lot bloodier and a

2337
01:56:48,640 --> 01:56:51,480
lot less honorable. 
Like this was chivalrous. 

2338
01:56:51,480 --> 01:56:53,200
Like Baylor and Damon were 
chivalrous guys. 

2339
01:56:53,200 --> 01:56:55,440
There wasn't going to be someone
Spearing the other guy's horse, 

2340
01:56:55,760 --> 01:56:58,520
right? 
So as many similarities as there

2341
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:00,560
may have been, there were also 
some big differences. 

2342
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:02,200
And this is an era where that 
mattered more. 

2343
01:57:02,280 --> 01:57:05,360
Dance era is where those things 
had kind of fallen off, where a 

2344
01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:07,600
lot of those values had been 
forgotten. 

2345
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:12,080
This was an era that was more 
accustomed to the horrors of 

2346
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:14,800
war, and it started to back off.
Like I'll start to be so eager 

2347
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:17,960
to get into war again. 
That said, they would be getting

2348
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:22,360
into war again pretty soon, only
a few years later. 

2349
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:29,280
So by this point, Baylor was 
probably already a tournament 

2350
01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:30,480
winner. 
He may have maybe had already 

2351
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:32,840
won a couple, but maybe not. 
Maybe this was his first big 

2352
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:34,480
win. 
I mean, he was only 17 years 

2353
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,320
old, and it was fantastic 
timing. 

2354
01:57:37,320 --> 01:57:39,960
I mean, what a tournament to win
in front of everybody. 

2355
01:57:40,080 --> 01:57:43,640
With this reputation, his 
success as a jouster would 

2356
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:46,840
continue to rise. 
The whole realm saw it after 

2357
01:57:46,840 --> 01:57:49,720
such an epic battle. 
I mean, no wonder both his 

2358
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:52,560
nickname and the memories stuck 
with people for so long. 

2359
01:57:53,960 --> 01:57:56,960
Maybe Damon took his loss 
graciously. 

2360
01:57:56,960 --> 01:58:00,680
Maybe Agor was there to whisper 
in his ear and say this should 

2361
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:05,320
be you getting all the cheers. 
Maybe a 13 year old Brendan 

2362
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:09,920
Rivers saw this whispering, saw 
this division, and started to 

2363
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:11,480
understand where things were 
going. 

2364
01:58:11,800 --> 01:58:14,360
Were people already wary? 
Were people people already 

2365
01:58:14,360 --> 01:58:19,560
seeing where this was headed? 
Some few may have, but mostly I 

2366
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:22,840
would guess they didn't. 
They didn't see what was coming 

2367
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:27,280
in about nine years after Baylor
won that tournament, he probably

2368
01:58:27,280 --> 01:58:29,480
did what most champions do. 
He created the crowd. 

2369
01:58:29,480 --> 01:58:31,760
He celebrated. 
He accepted their acclaim. 

2370
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:34,120
He was probably very gracious. 
I mean, everything about him 

2371
01:58:34,120 --> 01:58:37,920
suggests that he would have 
been, you know, not a braggart 

2372
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,200
or anything like that. 
He would have bowed or whatever 

2373
01:58:41,200 --> 01:58:44,080
he needs to do, like shown 
homage to the gods. 

2374
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:49,800
And his father congratulated the
the the marriage, the bride and 

2375
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:52,320
groom and all that honored why 
they were there. 

2376
01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:55,200
Imagine he helped Damon to his 
feet. 

2377
01:58:55,200 --> 01:58:56,840
Sure, sure. 
Yeah. 

2378
01:58:56,840 --> 01:58:58,440
And, you know, held his hands up
and all that. 

2379
01:58:58,440 --> 01:58:59,600
Yeah. 
All the all the things that 

2380
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:01,680
gracious Winter does. 
I predict that. 

2381
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:06,440
But he would have taken his 
helmet off of 2 during this and 

2382
01:59:06,440 --> 01:59:09,800
people would see and be reminded
of what he looked like. 

2383
01:59:10,600 --> 01:59:13,680
And here's interestingly, you 
may have noticed, folks, that 

2384
01:59:13,680 --> 01:59:16,880
this episode has not had any 
quotes yet, but we're leaving 

2385
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:20,640
you with one here, one that 
sticks out for its application 

2386
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:23,000
here. 
Yet too many men looked upon 

2387
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:27,200
Baylor's dark hair and eyes and 
muttered that he was more Martel

2388
01:59:27,200 --> 01:59:31,200
than Targaryen, even though he 
proved a man who could win 

2389
01:59:31,200 --> 01:59:35,280
respect with ease and was as 
open handed and just as his 

2390
01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:38,760
father. 
Knights and Lords of the Dornish

2391
01:59:38,760 --> 01:59:44,160
Marches came to mistrust Aaron 
and Baylor as well, and began to

2392
01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:48,560
look more and more to the old 
days when Dornish men were the 

2393
01:59:48,560 --> 01:59:52,840
enemy to fight, not rivals for 
the King's attention or 

2394
01:59:52,840 --> 01:59:55,960
largesse. 
And then they would look at 

2395
01:59:55,960 --> 02:00:00,960
Damon Blackfire, grown tall and 
powerful, half a God among 

2396
02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:04,200
mortal men and with the 
Conqueror's sword in his 

2397
02:00:04,200 --> 02:00:09,400
possession, and wonder. 
Now, among those cheering loudly

2398
02:00:09,400 --> 02:00:11,720
for Baylor would certainly be 
whatever Dornish were in 

2399
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:13,440
attendance. 
They would certainly approve of 

2400
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:18,480
his victory over Damon. 
And of course, looking Dornish 

2401
02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:21,040
would have just helped fuel 
their applause and their acclaim

2402
02:00:21,040 --> 02:00:24,640
for him, at least in part. 
And the cheers of those Dornish 

2403
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:28,120
might further inflamed those who
were upset by this state of 

2404
02:00:28,120 --> 02:00:31,520
affairs. 
Those same people who looked at 

2405
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:33,480
Damon. 
Blackfire growing tall and 

2406
02:00:33,480 --> 02:00:35,320
powerful, half a God among 
mortal men. 

2407
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:40,320
And indeed, wonder. 
Yeah, many would be doing both. 

2408
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:41,720
Some of these would be marcher 
Lords. 

2409
02:00:41,720 --> 02:00:44,320
Some of these would be just fans
of Damon Blackfire, who thought 

2410
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:47,240
he was better the better man, 
like the Sir Eustaces of the 

2411
02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:50,760
world. 
As we've said before, one of the

2412
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:54,040
purposes of tourneys, and some 
of this wisdom is forgotten at 

2413
02:00:54,040 --> 02:00:56,960
times, is to prepare for 
battles, for real wars. 

2414
02:00:57,720 --> 02:01:00,280
That this competition ended with
the 2 greatest young Knights of 

2415
02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:03,880
the era, both perhaps eager to 
be the next Dragon Knight was 

2416
02:01:03,880 --> 02:01:06,440
apartment because they're 
entertaining spectacle would 

2417
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:10,480
turn out to be just that, a 
prelude to real war. 

2418
02:01:11,080 --> 02:01:16,720
Next week, Baylor Part 2, we 
will begin in the year 188 cover

2419
02:01:16,720 --> 02:01:18,760
the prelude to the Blackfyre 
Rebellions. 

2420
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:21,520
The Blackfyre Rebellion. 
Well, just the 1. 

2421
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:25,400
He only lived through 1 and his 
time is hand to the king that 

2422
02:01:25,400 --> 02:01:28,640
followed which was 13 year reign
right up until his death in the 

2423
02:01:28,640 --> 02:01:30,840
Hedge night. 
Lots more interesting things to 

2424
02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:32,320
come. 
He's going to have children, 

2425
02:01:32,480 --> 02:01:35,320
he's going to have war, he's 
going to have more disputes. 

2426
02:01:35,480 --> 02:01:37,040
Lots of other things we'll come 
up with for you. 

2427
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:39,680
Can't wait. 
And whatever else y'all think 

2428
02:01:40,240 --> 02:01:44,680
because this one was recorded in
the studio without live viewers.

2429
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:47,840
But Part 2 will be live so y'all
will have a chance to do live 

2430
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:50,000
feedback and send in any other 
questions you may have. 

2431
02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:52,840
Feel free to do so. 
Your question may get answered 

2432
02:01:52,840 --> 02:01:56,800
live on the show. 
Let's have our trivia answer. 

2433
02:01:57,280 --> 02:02:00,920
The question again was Baylor 
the Blessed AKA Baylor the 

2434
02:02:00,920 --> 02:02:04,520
Befuddled alongside the name 
Baylor Breaks beer, reminds us 

2435
02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:09,480
that George likes alliteration 
in his nicknames, and my 

2436
02:02:09,480 --> 02:02:12,200
question was in A Song of Ice 
and Fire there's a character 

2437
02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:14,600
named Baylor and he has two 
nicknames as well, one mocking, 

2438
02:02:14,600 --> 02:02:17,520
1 complimentary. 
What are those names? 

2439
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:22,240
Baylor Hightower is the answer. 
His nickname is Baylor Bright 

2440
02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:26,400
Smile. 
But if you ask Ober and Martel 

2441
02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:29,800
and the deceased Elia Martel, 
you know, I guess Ober is also 

2442
02:02:29,800 --> 02:02:34,120
deceased. 
They called him Baylor Breakwind

2443
02:02:34,520 --> 02:02:38,720
because he he farted in front of
Elia when she was presented to 

2444
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:41,640
him as a possible suitor. 
So that didn't work out so well.

2445
02:02:41,640 --> 02:02:45,080
He's couldn't take him seriously
after he farted, so Baylor 

2446
02:02:45,080 --> 02:02:47,480
Breakwind he was. 
What a miss. 

2447
02:02:47,560 --> 02:02:51,640
Yeah, what a miss. 
We mentioned a lot of our 

2448
02:02:51,640 --> 02:02:54,600
episodes in this one, aiming the
Dragon Knight Part 1 and 2, of 

2449
02:02:54,600 --> 02:02:57,160
course, the Black Fire 
Rebellions, obviously the Summer

2450
02:02:57,160 --> 02:02:58,400
Hall episode got a brief 
mention. 

2451
02:02:58,640 --> 02:03:02,280
And The Trouble with Tourneys, a
very fairly recent episode from 

2452
02:03:02,280 --> 02:03:06,280
the end of 2022 that discusses 
some of the things we discussed 

2453
02:03:06,280 --> 02:03:09,240
here in terms of how tournaments
are set up for bigger things 

2454
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:12,280
and, and opportunity for 
chicanery and tricks and 

2455
02:03:12,280 --> 02:03:17,240
intrigue and all sorts of 
symbolic developments and all 

2456
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:20,560
sorts, just all sorts of things.
We spent a whole episode on it. 

2457
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:22,440
So you didn't check that one 
out. 

2458
02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:24,680
Maybe you should. 
Thanks to those of you who 

2459
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:28,800
support us on Patreon or Spotify
or who send us donations through

2460
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:31,280
our website. 
Those are all ways you can 

2461
02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:34,000
support us financially. 
If you wish to contribute, you 

2462
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:37,040
can follow the links to do that 
yourself. 

2463
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:40,960
We would much appreciate it. 
Thanks to Nina for her great 

2464
02:03:40,960 --> 02:03:44,040
notes on this episode and for 
nearly all our episodes. 

2465
02:03:44,040 --> 02:03:47,680
She had some great insight that 
we were able to discuss and add 

2466
02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:49,800
to and fill out what we had 
already said. 

2467
02:03:49,800 --> 02:03:54,080
So yeah, again, another win for 
her and for us for having her in

2468
02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:57,000
our corner. 
Thanks to Joey, Jesse and Bran 

2469
02:03:57,000 --> 02:04:01,040
for the music assistance and 
video intro and Bran's part, 

2470
02:04:01,040 --> 02:04:04,160
What a great contribution that 
has been for us over the years. 

2471
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:08,280
And to Michael Klarfeld for 
that, plus his excellent maps 

2472
02:04:08,280 --> 02:04:10,960
that you see behind us in every 
single episode. 

2473
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:15,640
And thanks to our Benjen Ear for
sound quality assistance, making

2474
02:04:15,640 --> 02:04:20,280
sure we sound as good as we can.
Recording is tricky, and it's 

2475
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:23,240
good to have someone who really 
knows what they're doing helping

2476
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:26,240
us out with the things that go 
wrong and making it all go 

2477
02:04:26,240 --> 02:04:28,200
smoothly when it does or when it
does. 

2478
02:04:28,480 --> 02:04:31,160
Either way, smooth sound is what
we try to deliver. 

2479
02:04:32,520 --> 02:04:36,400
Until next time, my friends, 
fellow historians and listeners 

2480
02:04:36,400 --> 02:04:40,880
and watchingers, whatever your 
preferred term is, we appreciate

2481
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:43,680
your presence. 
We appreciate your listenage and

2482
02:04:43,680 --> 02:04:46,960
until next time, Valar re re.