1 00:00:48,210 --> 00:00:53,090 As Prince Daron said about his own brother, Arian Targaryen. 2 00:00:53,610 --> 00:00:55,930 A pity he wasn't born a Fossaway then. 3 00:00:55,930 --> 00:00:59,650 He'd think himself an apple and we'd all be a deal safer, but 4 00:00:59,650 --> 00:01:02,280 there you are. We've also been told that 5 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,400 Dragons don't plant trees, but House Fossaway does. 6 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,000 It's an interesting contrast, isn't it? 7 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,440 The symbolic, the symbolism of something that's around forever 8 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,080 and represents life and and fertility versus something 9 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,840 that's just absolutely bent on destruction and kills itself 10 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,160 whenever it fights another of its kind. 11 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,760 And yeah, it's a very different vibe there, isn't it? 12 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,280 Now, they've also been playing with colors for much longer. 13 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,600 House floss away. Well before the Dragons came 14 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:32,120 along. Yeah. 15 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,600 Red Dragons, green Dragons, brown Dragons, apples have that 16 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,440 variety as well. And though I haven't eaten any 17 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,840 Dragons, it's a meal for kings, and I'm more of a common man, I 18 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,240 suspect I'd prefer apples if I did have the opportunity to do 19 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,160 some sort of taste test. And he has. 20 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,840 Apples are loaded with symbolism on their own, even without 21 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,920 Dragons in the picture. They're also loaded with fiber, 22 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,880 by the way. And George RR Martin doesn't 23 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,520 just love food, he loves word play. 24 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,600 So you get both of them here. You get a house just as old as 25 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,720 any with ties to the ancient, possibly supernatural, 26 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,760 mythological founders of the Reach and all the things that 27 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,680 come along with that. The the real First Men, the 28 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,520 first First Men. But of course the Fossa ways, 29 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,960 like so many other houses, made the transition to Andal, to the 30 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Seven, to knighthood, and it seems they took to it well, like 31 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,920 much of the Reach. They're big fans of all these 32 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:24,240 things. Like always, it's the characters 33 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,320 that matter the most. However, all the rest is just 34 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,000 set up to make the characters more interesting, to have them 35 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,520 something to exist in, to be a part of. 36 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,480 And the apples do fall far from the tree, meaning there's a wide 37 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,240 variety here, Right? They're not all just carbon 38 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,120 copies of each other. A bunch of very similar 39 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,880 characters. Just comparing Stefan to Raymond 40 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,920 says a lot. And while we don't have an 41 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:48,840 example of a better Fossaway than Raymond, I almost said 42 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,480 bitter. Yeah, we all. 43 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,920 We do have a candidate or two for someone worse than Stefan, 44 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:55,600 so that's something. But sticking with the word play, 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,880 bad apples don't ruin the bunch, especially not in this case. 46 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,400 They actually make for a better story. 47 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:04,400 They enhance the bunch. Yeah, from the noblest deeds to 48 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,120 the worst puns, from apple lore to a son of Garth Greenhand, 49 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,440 plus theories to fill in all the gaps. 50 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:15,680 All that and more, plus a taste of glory on this episode of 51 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:22,240 History of Westeros Podcast. Hello and welcome back, 52 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,520 everybody. It's another episode of History 53 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,600 of Westeros Podcast coming at you on Easter Sunday. 54 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,000 As it turns out, here at 3:00, our usual time slot on Sundays. 55 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:36,360 Grab an apple and enjoy as we take you through the full 56 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,080 history of House Fossaway, talking about characters and 57 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,680 everything else. Now, I actually ate a lot of 58 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,680 apples while I'm writing this episode. 59 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,280 Yeah. I mean, every time I was writing 60 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,680 something, I'd be like, apples. Yeah, that sounds really good. 61 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,360 And I would just go grab an apple and eat it while I was 62 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,160 writing this. Green apples. 63 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,480 Mind you, I didn't eat a red apple while writing this 64 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,960 episode, but I had several. Granny Smith's Darn right. 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,160 Anyway, we are here like I said, every 3:00 on Sunday. 66 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Well most 3:00's on Sunday and we are everywhere. 67 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,720 You can find us podcast that is with on podcast platforms and AD 68 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,560 free if you look on Patreon. And if you catch us on Spotify, 69 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,880 the video version is edited a week after we're live on 70 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,720 YouTube. So the best cleanest version of 71 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,200 this is up on Spotify. Thanks to Nina. 72 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,760 She had a lot of great notes, as she so often does when we're 73 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,560 doing house histories or deep dives on characters or something 74 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,520 in between. Over on her on 75 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:42,600 goodqueenalley.tumblr.com you can find a post about Makar and 76 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,040 how things would have gone in that family if Makar had been a 77 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,040 woman. Like would he have married or 78 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,200 she in this case have married Baylor? 79 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,800 Or was Darren just so against the incest marriages? 80 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,280 What we think would happen? It's a good what if type 81 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:00,600 question from a family that was that generation was all male. 82 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,880 This is the first episode of Topics Moot 2026. 83 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,560 Patreon voters picked this one. 11 more are coming. 84 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,880 As of right now, only three are left to be chosen. 85 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,320 We've got the last three currently being voted on, so 86 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,160 we'll have a full list for you all pretty soon. 87 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,720 As to what was chosen, House Fossaway, unless that changes 88 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,760 is, was the biggest single vote getter out of all the topics. 89 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,280 So this one was very wanted and we're very happy to deliver it. 90 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,120 You can hit us up with questions about this or about topics, 91 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,600 mood, or about anything at westeroshistory@gmail.com or on 92 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,160 any of our socials. We're pretty much everywhere. 93 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:36,720 Start off with a trivia question, and of course it's 94 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,400 very related to the topic. Not directly related to House 95 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,680 Fossaway in this case, but apples who mentioned an apple 96 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,240 while on their deathbed. Somewhat prominently mentioned 97 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,200 an apple on their deathbed. Narrows a doubt a bit. 98 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,960 Not every, not that many characters have deathbed scenes, 99 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,800 but there's a few answer at the end and answer during the 100 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,760 episode. If you're paying close 101 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,160 attention, you'll hear it get delivered under the radar here. 102 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,480 Let's talk real quickly about what's in store for today. 103 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,600 Apples, obviously, they're in lots of stores, in fact. 104 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:12,800 But here we have a persistent presence throughout history in 105 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,280 this house. They are an old house. 106 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:18,480 Like I said, they're first men then and all, and then they're 107 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,600 still around now. So just everything they've been 108 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,200 around for, all the major events we need to have always have 109 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,160 detail on how they participated. But it's a very large, long, 110 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,920 rich history. It's a ubiquitous food, right? 111 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,320 Which means it appears often enough outside of the context of 112 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,760 Mouse Fossaway. Just George likes describing 113 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,080 food. And apples are, well, they are 114 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,360 up their dessert food, their breakfast food, their snack 115 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,800 food, their alcohol. I mean their food for common 116 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,640 folk. They're used in savory dishes. 117 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,440 Too. Yeah, they're just really, 118 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,560 really are ubiquitous and just our existence, Their dessert, 119 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,560 they're like I say, Shea said. Savory dishes. 120 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,800 And they're food for horses. That's food for rich people and 121 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,320 food for animals like you don't. This is not a lot of examples 122 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,640 like that. It's arguably a top five human 123 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,080 food stuff of all time. I don't know how you would rate 124 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,240 that go about deciding that, but I'm going to make the case 125 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,120 anyway. We'll have a little bit of apple 126 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,680 facts and apple symbolism a little later in the episode and 127 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,680 more than 5 minutes on the Wester Rossi aspects there. 128 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,520 Starting off, I'll give you the list of topics that are coming 129 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,320 here. We have first mentioned, as we 130 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,400 so often do, First Men era. Foss, the Archer who is the 131 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,560 progenitor of House Fossaway, Cider Hall, the red apple. 132 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,160 Fossaways Castle, then the coming of the end. 133 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,640 All some tidbits there. The Targaryen era to follow. 134 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,200 Field of fire. The old King's apple counter. 135 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,880 The Reds stay green, The Reds stay red. 136 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,920 From apple Lords to apple Knights. 137 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,680 Ashford Meadow the Reds turn green. 138 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,920 The bad apple a fruity diversion. 139 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,440 Then the apples of A Song of Ice and Fire. 140 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,240 We see A Song of Ice Apple, Fire. 141 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,320 Yeah, ice apple and fire. The three things that matter 142 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,800 most. Lady Leonette, who is a Fossaway 143 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,120 green, Sir John Fossaway, some red apple, Fossaways Lothor, 144 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,760 Apple Eater. And we'll close off with the 145 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,840 brown apple. I think a lot of you know who 146 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,760 I'm talking about there. That's Franklin Flowers, who is 147 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,080 a Fossaway bastard in the Golden Company. 148 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,000 So. And a captain at that. 149 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,360 So an important guy. All right, let's get to it. 150 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,800 And now that we have those first mentions in the way here, let's 151 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,040 get to it. First mention, they don't 152 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,760 actually appear in A Game of Thrones in the main text, but 153 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,760 they do appear in the appendix. We learn in the appendix of Game 154 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,640 of Thrones that Mace Tyrell's sister Jana is married to Sir 155 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,680 John Fossaway, who is probably the head of the house, but 156 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:47,080 they're a knightly house these days. 157 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,840 They used to be lordly. We'll, we'll get into that 158 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,120 detail too. So Sir John could just be a 159 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:53,960 knight of the house, but he might be the head. 160 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,240 It's that's makes it a little confusing. 161 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,720 But not to mention there's lots of ways here and there. 162 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,760 We're not always sure who's green and who's red, but either 163 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,640 way, they're all sworn to House Tyrell and they're both reach 164 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,360 houses, of course. So that works together as well 165 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,240 as serving to make them sort of a whole. 166 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,200 They're mentioned again in a John chapter in The Clash of 167 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,720 Kings, when Lord Commander Commander, Lord Commander 168 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,360 Mormont sends a certain Sir Arnell to Renly as an envoy. 169 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,280 And this Sir Arnell, whose last name isn't mentioned. 170 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,360 So he's probably a bastard 'cause it says his mother was a 171 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,720 green apple flossaway. I was like, yeah, I mean, maybe 172 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Sir Arnell with some noble last name with his father's house. 173 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,880 But I have a feeling this that's not what we're we're seeing 174 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,760 here. Either way, sadly, we never hear 175 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,440 again of Sir Arnell. He's sent to Renly as an envoy, 176 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,280 and that's the last we hear of Sir Arnell. 177 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,720 He may have gone rogue, may have been killed. 178 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,160 I mean, he probably never even got to Renly. 179 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,000 Renly's probably dead before he got there. 180 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,040 Either way, here's the actual first appearance of a Fossaway. 181 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Sir Wendell Manderly, Lucas Blackwood, Sir Perwin Frey, and 182 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,560 the rest of her highborn companions accompanied her to 183 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,080 the castle. The Great Hall of Lord Caswell's 184 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:15,280 keep was great only by courtesy, yet room was found on the 185 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,840 crowded benches for Catlin's men amidst Renly's own Knights. 186 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,920 Catlin was assigned a place on the dais between red faced Lord 187 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,920 Mathis Rowan and genial Sir John Fosaway of the green apple 188 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,640 fosaways. Sir John made jests while Lord 189 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Mathis inquired politely after the health of her father, 190 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,720 brother and children. Maybe a little word play with 191 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,040 George there, having red faced Mathis and Sir John of the 192 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,800 Green, Green and Red. Right away. 193 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,800 It would be funny if it turned out that Math is Rohan's mother 194 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,800 was a Fossaway also, or something like that. 195 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,120 Especially a red apple Fossaway. And right away when we first 196 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,840 meet Raymond Fossaway and Stephen Fossaway, there's a 197 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:01,600 bunch of puns. I'm sure you all remember that. 198 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,080 We'll be getting to it in good time. 199 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,160 And here we have Sir John, the first Fossaway meet. 200 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,680 He's a jokester. I think this is just a theme 201 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,880 with the house. George has included a lot of 202 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,720 humor with these guys, not just word play, but things like this, 203 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,440 just having them be of that sort. 204 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,440 I think if you grow up with your sigil being an apple, you have 205 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,880 to know how to take a joke or you're just going to be 206 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,680 miserable for your whole life. Right? 207 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,840 Like everyone's going to make fun of you if you don't make fun 208 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,600 of yourself first. That's a good point. 209 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:30,680 Yeah. It's a Tyrion thing. 210 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,000 You got to. You got to lean into the joke 211 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,120 before they do. Yeah. 212 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,920 You got to make it your own. That's a great point. 213 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,800 Yeah. And I think that's not just 214 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,560 random, though. It's not just about the apple 215 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:40,080 sigil. I say it makes a good point 216 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,760 here. But as we get into it, Cider 217 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,320 Hall, it's really well located. It looks like a place that has 218 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,120 probably, as far as the Reach goes, mostly avoided war. 219 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,720 It's not in the path of where a lot of armies would be. 220 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,280 It's not a big target. Kind of like how the Arbor gets 221 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,880 left alone a bit because no one wants to screw up the wine 222 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,160 supply. Like leave them cider guys 223 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,000 alone, let them make their cider unless they're a big problem. 224 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,000 So honestly, I think it's kind of an idyllic place to grow up. 225 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,840 We'll get into more detail later, but growing up in a 226 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,080 really nice place, we don't have a lot to worry about. 227 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,240 Yeah, That might make you be more likely to grow up a little 228 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,840 bit of a jokester. Just, you know, you're a little 229 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:16,600 more at ease. Who knows? 230 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,320 So score one for the green apples, too. 231 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,520 They appeared before the red apple. 232 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,040 Fossaway say. Hey, now, it's also notable that 233 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,200 the Fossaways, like I said, are nightly here, Sir John Fossaway. 234 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,200 But they still, it's, it seems like they're treated still like 235 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,200 they're at the top of the nobility in the Reach, minus the 236 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,000 Tyrells. And that has to do with events. 237 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,280 We'll get to it. It seems like perhaps they they 238 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,720 were demoted. And while we don't have all the 239 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,480 details of that, we will talk about it. 240 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,640 It seems like a lot of the rest of the Reach kind of ignore 241 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,640 that. It's like, yeah, they we all 242 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,040 descend from the descendants of Garth Greenhand here. 243 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:54,880 We're all about the same. Yeah. 244 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,560 Anyway, the marriage alliances seem to reflect that. 245 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,200 No one seems to treat them like they're lesser, even though like 246 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:01,640 kind of technically they might be. 247 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,320 Anyway, if Renly had become king, an ideal situation for the 248 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,560 Fossaways would be two of them in the Rainbow Guard, one the 249 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,640 red and one the green. Of course, knowing George would 250 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,600 probably flip it like this, The green apple fossaway would be 251 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,200 the red and the red one would be the green. 252 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,960 Yep, first man era. The reach is fame for fertility 253 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,480 and produce is ancient. It's been that way for a long 254 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,720 time. Everybody knows it, it's well 255 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,480 established, blah blah blah. Many of the old stories are 256 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,720 about the origin of it all, meaning how it became so fertile 257 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,280 in the 1st place. Some of it's just of course 258 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,600 natural. It was came out that way. 259 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,280 Garth Greenhand of course is given a lot of credit too. 260 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,840 He's the major founding myth, supposedly taught farming to the 261 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,880 rich and or he led his people to the reach from Essos, got them 262 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,880 all set up there, taught them how to work the land and met the 263 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,000 most out of it. And they sure did make the most 264 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,000 out of it. Many of his various children 265 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,480 were associated with different crops or foods or ways of 266 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,200 getting those foods. Like you might have one like a 267 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,640 house dairy where they're not in the reach, but a good example, 268 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,360 they have a plowman, right? That's that's farming. 269 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,000 You have Fost. The Archer is the character 270 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,000 that's founder here. It's a little unusual. 271 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,800 We have an Archer character, not a some sort of apple planter 272 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,480 guy, but Garth Greenhand kind of already took that role. 273 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:34,720 He's like the Johnny Appleseed of Westeros, but blown to much 274 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,360 bigger proportions because he was doing not just apple 275 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,000 spreading, but like all the foods, but apples included all 276 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,160 the like prominent ancient foodstuffs, right? 277 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,920 That's that's kind of where Garth Greenhand's descendants 278 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,160 took things. And this is one of the most 279 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,160 prominent ones because, well, apples are also a really big 280 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,040 deal in the real world. George was barred from a lot of 281 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,160 that and hence the influence of the Johnny Appleseed type 282 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,640 character. So some of Garth's children and 283 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,800 himself included, are mythology mythologized given supernatural 284 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,640 powers. Perhaps that's just exaggeration 285 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,080 given time pass. These people did such important 286 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,160 things that they're raised up. This is a common thing we've 287 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,840 seen not just here, but in the real world. 288 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,480 But here we we can't just of course, eliminate the 289 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,920 possibility that it was supernatural. 290 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,240 It might have been supernatural stuff. 291 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,240 Maybe it's just the stories that we're told, but could be that 292 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,720 could be both. Some of his descendants aren't 293 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,760 absolutely notably supernatural. Like they descend from a 294 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,840 supernatural person, but they don't actually do supernatural 295 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,280 things. They're just really good at 296 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,960 stuff, you know, they're just like really excellent in what 297 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,240 they do. Fost the Archer might be a 298 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,160 example of that. Let's talk about him 299 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,080 specifically. So he's the a first generation 300 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,040 descendant of Garth Greenhand, a rather large number of 301 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,240 descendants. You know, I guess when you have 302 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,160 that many brothers and sisters like Foss the Archer did, maybe 303 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,200 you're more likely to specialize in things or maybe you got to 304 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,560 really find your place as so many different people, so many 305 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,600 people doing different things, so many people good at different 306 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,640 things. Well, you got to stand out 307 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,400 somehow. This guy, he's known for 308 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,680 shooting heads off of women he liked. 309 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,040 I don't know why that's. Shooting the heads. 310 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,240 Shooting the apples off of Geez, that is really dark, isn't it? 311 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,160 Shooting the heads off I. Don't think he was. 312 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,560 What's funny is that again. Known to shoot apples off the 313 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,920 heads of women he liked. We have art here by Michael 314 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,440 Clarfeld. Of course it's Michael Clarfeld 315 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:28,560 art. Not, not always. 316 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,960 But you're not no one's surprised that we have Michael 317 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,880 Clarfeld art here. It's on the map. 318 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,920 Here is our friend MO, the cosplaying as Fossey Archer. 319 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,280 Now, if this is what he did to women, he liked shooting apples 320 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,560 off their heads, what did he do to women he disliked 'cause this 321 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,680 is a weird way of flirting. This is really weird. 322 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,840 But it's also meant to be like, symbolic, right? 323 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,760 This is his exploits or some sort of extension of his 324 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,120 famously fertile father. So this is also a dude who hung 325 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,000 out with lots of women, and the implication being that some of 326 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,560 them had his children. And you know, these early days, 327 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,839 so many people descend from these characters. 328 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,160 So if you have a father doing this kind of thing, like from a 329 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,319 very realistic perspective, a real world perspective, if you 330 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,160 grow up with a father who's sleeping around a lot, well, you 331 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,839 might do that too. Or you might push again, push 332 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,440 back against it. But and and do do never do it 333 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,079 like a Jon Snow. But Foss is more of the former 334 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,599 category, it seems. It's probably a euphemism or 335 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,160 could be a euphemism. Shooting apples off the heads is 336 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,120 could be some sort of euphemism for getting them pregnant. 337 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:36,240 I mean, Cupid's Arrow, Rott, William Tell, there's a lot of 338 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,760 other stories that are going on here that are being borrowed 339 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,200 from and the vibe is there for that. 340 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,280 Need to suggest maybe he was worshipped as a minor deity. 341 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,360 A lot of these ancient figures were. 342 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,480 That's a real world thing too. People that get so famous in 343 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,640 their own time, they established such important traditions or 344 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,320 kingdoms or what have you, they figure out the importance of 345 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,280 apples. They're the first guy to Bruce 346 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,960 Sider or something like that. You'd be remembered for that. 347 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,560 Even in, in prehistoric times. That's the kind of thing that 348 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,320 people would just link, latch onto and tell their children 349 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,160 about and so forth. But it is kind of weird, right? 350 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,600 And that's why you look for euphemisms and symbolism in this 351 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,360 story. Cause all these apples, this 352 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,160 bounty, this fertility, and he just wants to shoot at it with 353 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,640 his arrows like that. Something's wrong with that, 354 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,000 right? Aren't there better uses for 355 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,320 bows? And that like, why would I go 356 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,880 hunting when I have all these apples to shoot at? 357 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,720 That's crazy, right? Like the food that runs away 358 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,000 seems like the one you need to shoot at. 359 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,720 The apples are just there, man. You don't have to shoot them. 360 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,920 It's just, it literally falls on the ground eventually if you 361 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,560 just leave it be. Arrows seem like overkill, but 362 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,960 that might be part of the point. This things were so fertile. 363 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,360 Nina suggests the age of heroes was such a different time that 364 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:01,080 people have the ability, the time, the extra resources to 365 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,960 waste on things that make them look like demigods. 366 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,320 This is might be how he established his reputation, by 367 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,880 spending his time doing demigod things and that convinced people 368 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,640 he was one. You know, there's a children's 369 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,280 movie, a classic movie a lot of people listening might have 370 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,040 might think of called the Swan Princess. 371 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,440 In the first half, the the Prince is kind of a a real jerk. 372 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,920 You know who who kind of a Jamie type character, you know, really 373 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,040 show offish and he's shooting arrows off the head of like his 374 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,760 bumbling sidekick. And so like it's kind of a 375 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,880 boring thing, but also show off He's like he is like look at my 376 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,480 prowess type of thing. So I think it is maybe a little 377 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:40,960 trophy. I'm sure there's other other 378 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,480 examples of men showing off their prowess by doing like 379 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,080 these very dangerous things. And you could probably get away 380 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,520 with making mistakes and not having people find out like the 381 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,680 occasional one like that. If some of you may remember, the 382 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,520 movie The Quick and the Dead is a kind of a silly gunslinger 383 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,600 movie. But they did get serious with 384 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,160 the character. That was like a trick shot 385 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,680 artist. And he would like, shoot cards 386 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,200 like right through the the center of the ace of spades or 387 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,120 whatever. And this one, I think it was 388 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:08,600 Sharon Stone's character, or maybe it was. 389 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,360 I don't know. It doesn't matter who accused 390 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:11,840 him was like, hey, I know, I've heard of you. 391 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,080 What happened in that names of towns like you? 392 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,720 You don't always hit, do you? You know, it's like acting like 393 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,800 this dude shot a kid or something like that. 394 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,760 Yeah. Well, you know, if you're fosty 395 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,200 Archer, maybe that happened once or twice too. 396 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,560 But you have the power, the wealth to make that rumor go 397 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,920 away or to, you know, somehow make people not talk about it, 398 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,080 maybe very and very using very dark means Anyway. 399 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,800 I mean, the presumably one of these women he liked that he 400 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,880 shot arrows at the apples off their heads, became the first 401 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,840 lady of House Fossaway. I suppose he retired from his 402 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,520 days of shooting at fruit to raise a family that turned out 403 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,040 to be quite famous and successful. 404 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,800 I'm guessing, given his vibe, that this first lady Fossaway 405 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,560 had more to do with the raising of the children. 406 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:53,960 I mean, that's often how it goes. 407 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,320 This guy just seems like a weirdo shooting at apples all 408 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,200 the time. But anyway, obviously I'm being 409 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,960 a little silly here, but there's in the ancient times of the 410 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:08,280 Reach and First Men days, marriage, the seven, it wasn't 411 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,000 like that. You could have a guy that 412 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,680 married or impregnated lots of women and that would have been 413 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,280 OK in First Men times. I mean OK meaning somewhat if 414 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,040 not maybe entirely socially acceptable. 415 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,840 It's not against their religion, I guess is the point I'm making. 416 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,800 Because that religion didn't exist then. 417 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:32,000 There wasn't as big of a emphasis, if any, on monogamy in 418 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,440 those times. So we don't have to assume that, 419 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,960 you know, Foss chose one woman in particular to settle down 420 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,560 with, but there may have been a whole bunch of women and the 421 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,160 children of those women as a whole. 422 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,000 The strongest of those perhaps ran with it and became the first 423 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,600 Lords of House Fossaway of Cider Hall. 424 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,280 Foss's legendary half sister Floris is supposed to be the 425 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,400 simultaneous ancestor ancestress, school name, cool 426 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,320 word. Houses Ball Peak and Florent and 427 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,280 maybe even the Lannisters. So there's a lot of connection 428 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,080 here and this is part of why these houses even with fought 429 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,520 with Fossaways getting demoted to nightly, they still can 430 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,400 consider themselves largely equal. 431 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,040 Foss's half brothers, he had half brothers. 432 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,040 Harlan and Herndon had a polyandrus marriage with a 433 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,320 woods, which that's explicit. It's not even it's not like 434 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,640 between the lines. No, they had they both had this 435 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,560 woods witch as a lover. A centuries later, Lyman 436 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,320 Hightower had polygamous marriages. 437 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,200 He only gave it up at the coming of the end all. 438 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,560 So there was a lot of this going on. 439 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,600 It wasn't just the occasional thing. 440 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,920 It was pretty normal at the time and of course, very, very, very 441 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,440 long ago. So maybe he there was never an 442 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,480 official life for Fosty Archer. It may have just been something 443 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,000 that developed over time. There's a consolidation of 444 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,480 fostaway power. You know, these, these, as the 445 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,000 culture shifted and populations grew, these things became more 446 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,200 delineated. But the bottom line, however it 447 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,520 got that way, The wealth of Cider Hall is held by armed 448 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,000 force. They are a noble house, a 449 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,640 nightly house, same difference in this case, meaning that, 450 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,360 yeah, they're, they're a house with a product, with produce 451 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,920 that makes the money, which is not super typical. 452 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,800 In fact, a lot of noble houses look down on that. 453 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,040 They look down on merchant business, which probably just 454 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,840 means that the FOSSA ways have a, a gap, like they have a, a, 455 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,080 some space between themselves and the running of the business. 456 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,560 They have subordinates, Stewart's maybe they have a, an 457 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:37,720 equivalent of House Cassell, a house that's been tied to them 458 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,960 for a long time as basically as the stewards of that house or as 459 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,520 a recurring role subordinate to the main house, something like 460 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,720 that. There could be some, yeah, some 461 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,120 smaller house. There's a house called Appleton 462 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,480 in the Reach. We have really no idea where 463 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,200 they exist or where their castle is, but that could be, for 464 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,120 example, that's the kind of name you might expect for a Fossaway 465 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,960 steward house, right? Someone that runs the business 466 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,280 that does the day-to-day operations while the Fossaways 467 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,240 themselves do what? Practice fighting, running 468 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,720 armies, jousting, playing with swords. 469 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,680 You know, like doing the things that keeps everybody else in 470 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,120 line in case something goes wrong. 471 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,680 Well, they can fight for their lands to hold them and let the 472 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,160 stewards continue making them big money. 473 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,920 And that's important, though I think you consider the Arbor. 474 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,280 They're rich and it's not hard to see why. 475 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,800 They've got wine, they've got shipping, and they own the 476 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,720 shipping. Well, the shipping is different 477 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,840 from Cider Hall. It's inland, very inland. 478 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,120 They do. They are on the river, actually, 479 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,600 two rivers. So there's some shipping 480 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,200 downriver, but we're not talking sailing halfway around Westeros 481 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,880 to deliver their goods. They probably have to outsource 482 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,520 that. Still, this is a house that's 483 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:56,800 had a product that is widely used frequently. 484 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:04,920 So this that implies a steady if not substantial income for very, 485 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,120 very, very long time. So you can kind of understand 486 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:15,120 why even though mercantilism is found on by nobility, it's 487 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,320 pretty big for houses like the Fossa Ways and the Arbor and a 488 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,760 few others. Particularly houses of the Reach 489 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,800 are where that exception is found, where you have a bit more 490 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:30,200 of the mercantilism married to the house vibe, the other big 491 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,480 heart of Andal nobility and cultures, of course, the veil. 492 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,800 And you don't have as much of this there where they're like, 493 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,880 yeah, we like apples or we like golden roses or grapes, for 494 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,880 example. Yeah, the the veil symbolism is 495 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,520 more martial, more religious, or both. 496 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,960 Now let's talk about Cider Hall itself. 497 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,600 Like many castles, it probably had an early version that was 498 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,640 expanded on. In this case, it's easy to see 499 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,440 how they expanded on it 'cause we just got through talking 500 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,760 about their steady income. So they, like the phrase, for 501 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,960 example, started off with a wooden Fort on either side that 502 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,240 greatly became stone Fort, stone bridge. 503 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,920 This and that big tower I just added to over the centuries. 504 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,920 Now that's only 600 years old. Cider Halls had way longer for 505 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,200 that. They're also not in a place that 506 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,600 says contested the phrase people they know people would want to 507 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,600 pay to get across the river cider hall. 508 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,920 People are coming there to drink the cider or to get to apples or 509 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,080 to do business, right. It's not, it's not to go from 510 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,120 one place to the other. It's not a transition point 511 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,400 necessarily, although they do have a lot of traffic coming 512 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,040 back and forth because of they are in an extremely strategic 513 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,480 place. More strategic perhaps for money 514 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,120 making then for military things, but both it is. 515 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,400 My guess would be that they built their first Fort out of 516 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,720 apple trees, the wood from apple trees that had been developed in 517 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,040 the area. Maybe the seeds and root stocks 518 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,320 had been brought over from SOS or maybe they were already 519 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,760 there. Maybe this was a place where 520 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,480 Apple's been growing naturally and people said boom, look at 521 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,800 this spot, let's build a castle here. 522 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,120 It's got apples. It's got fertile ground around 523 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:12,480 it, which is implied by the apples. 524 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,680 And from a geographical standpoint, it's right on. 525 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,480 Ashea is going to put the map up, but she doesn't already have 526 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,760 it up at the confluence of the cockles went and the mandor. 527 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,960 So it's right there on the two rivers. 528 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,040 So it's got rivers on two sides of it, which is very defensible. 529 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,600 So they don't really have to worry as much about being 530 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,840 attacked from the West or the South. 531 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,280 And there's a lot of traffic because the Mandor is the main 532 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,240 river of the reach. Lot of traffic, boats and people 533 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,280 going upriver like alongside it to use, using it as a way to 534 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,960 find their way. You know, just follow the river 535 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,160 whether you're on it or not. You would be passing by Cider 536 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,040 Hall if you go about halfway up or halfway down. 537 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,360 It's very central in the Reach, which is also really important 538 00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,760 to what I was saying earlier about it being kind of idyllic. 539 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,400 It's very defensible and in perhaps even commanding right. 540 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,200 This helps explain why it's so ancient. 541 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,560 It wouldn't take long to figure out the value of this, but even 542 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,720 Foss, the Archer who maybe was only interested in shooting at 543 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560 apples can see, wow, I'll get all the apples for me to shoot 544 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,200 at. Just upriver. 545 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,040 The mandor is Bitter Bridge. And before that though, before 546 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,920 you get to Bitter Bridge, there's a smaller tributary that 547 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:24,840 features long table right at the end. 548 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,200 So you've got a lot of pretty well known reach castles along 549 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,680 this stretch here downriver from Cider Hall, not very far, once 550 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,600 again on the Mandor, is actual Highgarden. 551 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,200 I'm not sure the travel distance, but it might be just a 552 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,840 couple of days by boat to get from Highgarden to Cider Hall. 553 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,680 Might be faster. Which means that Highgarden has 554 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,560 fresh cider and apples all the time because they get it right 555 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,600 from the Cider Hall by boat very quickly downriver. 556 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,640 Don't even have to like ROW, just catch some wind or just 557 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,080 sit. Just catch the drift. 558 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,960 Literally. Heck, who needs boats? 559 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,200 Just throw the apples into the water and some dudes can sit 560 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,440 there with Nets down at the mander catching apples. 561 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,400 They float, right? Why waste good boats from that? 562 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520 Just catch them in the Nets. So that's pretty cool for them. 563 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,240 They're really locked in. They don't have to worry about 564 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,080 defense as much, but they probably have plenty of money to 565 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,240 spend on it, you know, in in case they do. 566 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,800 So think about this. I said it's deep into the reach. 567 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,000 It does. It's it's not close to any 568 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,920 borders. It's not close to the West and 569 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,360 there's a river in the way. It's not close to the 570 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,400 Riverlands, and there's a river in the way there too. 571 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,400 It's not close to the Dornish Marches and there's a river in 572 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,400 the way, and it is closest to the Stormlands out of 573 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,440 everything, but not that close, and there's no river in the way. 574 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,480 So of all the ancient wars they would have fought, and we're for 575 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,000 now discounting wars, they would have fought against other houses 576 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,200 in the Reach. Once the Reach was a thing, a 577 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,280 contiguous polity, a region, there was kings of the Reach and 578 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,720 all that, and kings of the Stormlands. 579 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,120 That's where a lot of their warring would have been because 580 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,840 that's the closest contested border. 581 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,720 That's the one enemy that doesn't have to cross a river to 582 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,120 get to them. They can just March straight 583 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,240 West and they'll get to Cider Hall. 584 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,240 Just March along the cockles went, and you get there. 585 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,960 Now what they would pass on the way, if they're marching along 586 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,320 the cockles went, is Ashford Meadow. 587 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,560 This is something that I neglected to point out during 588 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,680 any of our Duncan Egg coverage. I don't think maybe we did. 589 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,560 It's been so long, maybe we talked about it years ago, but 590 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,080 it's really close. Cider Hall is probably the most 591 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,760 major castle near to Ashford. The first one you'd get to, 592 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,640 especially if you're going downriver on the Cockles went, 593 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,800 which again, be a very easy way to travel downriver. 594 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,000 No sailing, just let the river take you. 595 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,760 So again, this this paints a picture of a place that's very 596 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,160 nice to live. You probably are less likely to 597 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:44,200 have your lands despoiled. Your Lord might be a jerk from 598 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,960 time to time, but he's not going to be a jerk because he's broke 599 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,200 probably and is trying to extra tax you. 600 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,000 It can still happen. Rich people can be all kinds of 601 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,440 jerky no matter and greedy. But this is a guy. 602 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,280 This is a house that has a steady income and is less likely 603 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,920 to have to get desperate. So you probably and this is 604 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,400 where like the real world trickle down effect gets 605 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,640 exaggerated and is, you know, get this gets it's a political 606 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,480 football that people just abuse. But this is where the trickle 607 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,120 down effect actually has some merit. 608 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,320 Well, you're collecting all this extra produce for your Lord. 609 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,240 They're not going to care if a few extra apples go missing. 610 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,000 They won't even know there's so much. 611 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,880 So yeah, you are going to see what's very likely a more well 612 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,120 fed peasantry in a round all over the reach. 613 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,120 That's probably true, but the cider hall peasants would be a 614 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,880 particularly healthy lot. Apples are just really good for 615 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,880 you. The digestion, it's really it. 616 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,600 It makes you feel more full than you are. 617 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,840 So you might have a lot of just like really felt well digested 618 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,960 regular peasants and they might have some pride in that. 619 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,320 I don't know, like, yeah, we're the we're the best common folk 620 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,440 around. We got the best situation here. 621 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,120 And it's such a big tie to who they are, right? 622 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,840 Like the Arbor come back to them. 623 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,480 This particular produce, it's a big association with who they 624 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,200 are. It makes them their money. 625 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,160 It's on all their the apples are on everything. 626 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,520 It's their sigil, right? It's just, yeah, they they've 627 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,680 really leaned into it. So there's also a little bit of 628 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,200 extra pride probably in being a food producer in a realm that is 629 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,600 particularly afflicted by long winters. 630 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,880 And this isn't a region also Speaking of being a great place 631 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,880 to live. It's not the farthest S, but the 632 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,520 reach doesn't get hit by winter as badly as, say, the Riverlands 633 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:30,720 or the West or certainly not the north. 634 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,880 So it's got that going for it too. 635 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,720 Meanwhile, in addition to sitting back on their wealth and 636 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,120 drinking their cider, the kind of things that the Lords and now 637 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,920 Knights of Cider Hall could be proud of is just how many kings 638 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,960 and Queens and other Lords and ladies have partaken of Cider 639 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,680 Hall Cider. How it's been consumed by the 640 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,680 vast majority of all nobles who've ever existed. 641 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200 You know, especially if you just focus on the Reach or the, the 642 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,600 close, the houses close by, because there's obviously other 643 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,640 houses making cider. Cider is ubiquitous. 644 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,200 It's made all over Westeros. They make it beyond the Wall. 645 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,640 They make it. It's just, yeah, apples. 646 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,280 Apples are like that, yo. They can grow almost anywhere, 647 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,240 which might be a symbolic thing for fossa waste latch onto. 648 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,440 We can handle anything. We fossa waste apples. 649 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,120 They can handle anything. They can grow anywhere they can. 650 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:30,240 We're diverse, we're tough. We're able to adjust to whatever 651 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,080 you throw at us or wherever you throw us 'cause we're apples and 652 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,000 were easily hurled. Yeah. 653 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,360 Let's talk about the coming of the Andols. 654 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,520 That changed things. Yet it also made them into what 655 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,200 we're more familiar with today because some of this pre Andol 656 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,120 stuff is just, well, we don't know, It's so far ago and it 657 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,520 wasn't written down. This could theoretically be a 658 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,000 huge section of history because it is a huge section of history. 659 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,640 There's a lot that's implied here, thousands of years, but 660 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,760 it's just so hazy. It's just a lack of detail that 661 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,200 makes that hard. Maybe one day we'll have a lot 662 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:06,680 more. There's a lot there, but it 663 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,120 yeah, it isn't particularly developed, but it seems the 664 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,840 fossa ways, like so many other houses, made that transition and 665 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,280 it might have gone easier for them in some ways, maybe not, 666 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,280 might have been harder. They had maybe had more to fight 667 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,239 over their wealth and their really excellent positioning, 668 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,159 their great intra reach location being as excellent as it is. 669 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,679 This would have been when their motto A taste of glory would 670 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,719 have appeared. Because house words are A and 671 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,400 all cultural thing. It may also be that the and alls 672 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,920 were very familiar with all this. 673 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,360 Like I suppose it's likely that apple trees existed in Andalose 674 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,239 too. It's possible that they came 675 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,639 from there. You know Garth Green is one of 676 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,440 the things he brought over, was one of the many food stuffs they 677 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,800 brought. Apples are particularly good for 678 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,400 that sort of thing because again, they're really adaptable. 679 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,360 We'll talk about that more later and then we'll get to the 680 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,440 biology of it. But it's a smart thing to bring 681 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,280 along because of that reason, because it's so diverse and and 682 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,160 able to handle a lot of climates. 683 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,240 So I prefer the theory that the Fruit First Men brought them 684 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,880 meeting apples with them as part of their migration rather than 685 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,160 finding apples already in Westeros. 686 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,560 But that is very possible too, because animals spread apples by 687 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,200 consuming them and animals love apple a lot of them because, 688 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,920 well, they're good, they're sweet, they're tasty and animal 689 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,080 just the same reason humans like apples. 690 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,000 And of course, any if you're eating the seeds, you're 691 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,600 spreading them around when you when that when that passes 692 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,800 through you because the seeds don't get digested by most 693 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,680 animals. The faith of the seven might 694 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,240 have held more power as an institution. 695 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,680 That would be a reason why a lot of first mint houses liked 696 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,400 analyzing. Same reason a lot of real world 697 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,840 kingdoms turned Christian or Muslim or what have you. 698 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,120 Because it's a more centralized religion. 699 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,400 It gives you more power over your people. 700 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,920 Pantheons don't give you as much power over the common folk. 701 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,960 They just don't. There's too many too much 702 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,320 variety. There's too much difference in 703 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,120 what they want and what they believe is correct. 704 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,800 Too many different laws. And yeah, if it's all focused 705 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,280 into a central figure, you're easy to say, well, this God like 706 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,400 being demands this. It's harder to say that and get 707 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,240 to and have it mean something when you have 12 different God 708 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:23,000 like beings all demanding different things. 709 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,080 You can pick the one you want, be like, well, my God doesn't 710 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,160 demand that, right? But when there's one God, every 711 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,360 one person or one king or queen can be saying, hey, all the God 712 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,720 wants this and you all have to do it, right? 713 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,200 It's just more power. So that's, you can easily see 714 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,320 why existing power structures existing first man houses were 715 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,160 like, yeah, they might not have resisted so much. 716 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,040 Like, yeah, this is actually more power for us. 717 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,120 They might have actually, yes, they may have married Andal 718 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,600 princesses as so many of them did, rather than falling to 719 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,240 conquest because they saw this as the right path forward for 720 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:56,400 them to a hold their power, not lose it to the end dolls and B, 721 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,000 increase their own power at the same time. 722 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,280 And in fact, it was probably a no brainer for a lot of them 723 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:01,960 when they really sat down and thought about it. 724 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,000 Those of them who bothered to do that, those of them who could, 725 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,960 having not been violently ejected from their lands. 726 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,600 So the first one in fossil ways probably had some very 727 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,920 substantial differences. Obviously talking about things 728 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,120 like polygamy is a is a massive difference, but it's clear that 729 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,120 and all culture really took I mean tourneys, knighthood, 730 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,320 chivalry. This is stuff the reach loves 731 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,960 these things thousands of years laters and it and they loved it 732 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,480 then. So yeah, there's always people 733 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,760 who hate change, but I think the first man houses saw the writing 734 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,160 on the tree and they could get ahead more by going with the 735 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,960 flow rather than fighting against the inevitable. 736 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,720 There had to have been a point if it wasn't early on, where a 737 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:46,560 lot of first men, kings and warlords and dynasties would say 738 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:49,000 there's just too many of these damn and dolls. 739 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,760 It's it's it's team up with them or die, you know, and there will 740 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,480 be some who'd be saying, yeah, die. 741 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,720 Well, let's die. I, I will never join them. 742 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,080 But most of them, obviously, that's just too anti pragmatic 743 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,640 in a business minded house, a house that's, you know, having 744 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,520 to go with the flow of market forces. 745 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,320 And yes, market forces existed thousands of years ago. 746 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,560 They were different, but there's still things that affect that. 747 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,760 Seasons plague, population migrations. 748 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,920 Yeah, war, obviously. So houses that are used to going 749 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,680 with the flow and having to change their business 750 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,280 arrangements based on what's happening out in the world. 751 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,120 A lot of noble houses would be too stubborn to do that. 752 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,280 They were like, no, we're in charge. 753 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,600 We set the flow, we set the tone. 754 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,360 We don't go with it. Well, houses that make their 755 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,600 money from selling things, then they can't force the issue as 756 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:39,760 much. So they might have a little more 757 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,480 flexibility, but that of course, always depends on who's in 758 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,240 charge. And we're talking about 759 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:44,800 thousands of years of different Fossaways. 760 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,800 I'm sure there was a very wide array of characters in charge in 761 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,480 the Targaryen era. We definitely have a lot more to 762 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,840 say about that. There's a lot more detail to the 763 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,800 Targaryen era in general, not just about House Fossaway, as 764 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,320 you all are pretty familiar. Do you have houses with 765 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,640 thousands of years of history? This is a bigger adjustment 766 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,560 phase and it's more recent. So in terms of analyzing 767 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,600 happened so long ago, it's it's a haze. 768 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,760 Like we said, it's hard to say what was forced on them and what 769 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,280 they've just adapted to now or what they were like. 770 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,400 Yeah, let's do that. We like this change. 771 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,440 Targaryen era came so recently, relatively speaking. 772 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,160 Then it's arguably was still they never fully adjusted to it 773 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,640 and now we are already perhaps past it or in the process of 774 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,760 going past it. The Reach had a bigger 775 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,560 adjustment than most too, because unlike the North, unlike 776 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,840 the Vale, unlike the West, unlike the Stormlands, well the 777 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,400 Stormlands sort of. The storm was like 1/2, a bit of 778 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,400 half and half. There wasn't as big of a change 779 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,480 at the top right. The Starks were still in charge 780 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,520 after the field of fire and the burning of Harrenhal. 781 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,120 The errands were still in charge. 782 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,760 The Lannisters were still in charge. 783 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,560 The Durndans became the Baratheons. 784 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,840 But that was Durnd in blood. However, the Tyrells, that was a 785 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,040 much bigger promotion than any of these, any of the ones who 786 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,920 were promoted. The Tyrells were the steward 787 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,200 House of Garth agreement of House Gardner, right? 788 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,080 So that was not a good thing for the reefs. 789 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:13,960 They didn't like it. They didn't like having the 790 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,040 Steward House placed above them after for eons following 791 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,400 probably the proudest lineage in all of Westeros, certainly 792 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,080 according to them. But it it makes a good case, 793 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,680 given the way that all of Westeros looks at lineage and 794 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,240 put such importance on it. Aren't you descended from Garth 795 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:31,920 Greenhand? Yeah. 796 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,080 That seems like a pretty big claim to fame. 797 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,200 I can understand why that's important, even if I wouldn't 798 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,480 necessarily agree with it. It's certainly consistent. 799 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,920 So the Tyrells being placed above them, that's a big drop 800 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,640 off in their procedure. Like, now we're ruled by dudes 801 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,200 who were stewards for thousands of years before it was the first 802 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,200 kings, the first kings of Westeros, the proudest. 803 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,960 Like it's hard to be more than that. 804 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,800 And then now it's the Tyrells. Now, of course, people have kind 805 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,480 of gotten used to the Tyrells now 300 years later, but it 806 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,840 still comes up a little bit. It's still like, yeah, those 807 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,840 Tyrells, they're a little up jumped, aren't they? 808 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,560 Like, they're still a steward house, you know, now they're now 809 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,480 they're a royal house, sort of. So they're they're, they've 810 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,600 raised their profile in some ways, but that's now going back 811 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:21,560 then when the gardeners were a recent thing, that would have 812 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,760 been a big adjustment period. And this was part of the point, 813 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,880 though, as I've said, when we've analyzed Aegon the Conqueror, 814 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:33,360 he'd rather not have the reach have the ability to rally under 815 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,640 a single leader or a single family and come at him. 816 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,400 He'd rather have the Reach mad at who there's in who's in 817 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,600 charge of them, meaning the Tyrells instead of him. 818 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,680 They they'll take out their anger against the Tyrells and 819 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,600 they'll never unite behind the Tyrells to come after him or his 820 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,960 descendants. So pretty smooth move by Aegon, 821 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,880 and we wonder about how that translated into bitterness and 822 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,800 bad feelings in houses like the Fossaways and how that played 823 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,440 out. Certainly the TV show gave me 824 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,360 some ideas. The book's a little different. 825 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,160 So don't take Raymond Fossaways and Stephen Fossaways rantings 826 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,080 about the Targaryens, which are surely the valid feelings that 827 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,800 many people in the book world would have. 828 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,040 Not necessarily those two characters, but there's good 829 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,120 reasons why they would too. I just want to be clear that the 830 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,560 hatred of House Targaryen is amplified in House Fossaway in 831 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,280 the TV show. So I'm not saying it's not 832 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,840 there, but they definitely went farther with it. 833 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,640 Still, it was backed by good reasons like Raymond and 834 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,360 Stefan's reasons for disliking the Targaryens or if not hating 835 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,560 them in the show was backed by events that would make you hate 836 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,920 them. So it was very believable and 837 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,840 that's part of why I'm clarifying because you could, 838 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,080 you could easily fall into the trap of thinking that the two 839 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,880 are completely In Sync on that book and show not quite. 840 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,920 It's close though. And and if you did conflate 841 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,160 them, I wouldn't really press the issue because it's it is 842 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,320 probably that close because some fossil waste probably did die at 843 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,640 the field of fire. They were very loyal to the 844 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,760 Green Hands, like to the Gardeners, like so many others. 845 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,280 There were probably fossaways in the order of the Green Hand, 846 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,920 that order of Knights that was all but extinguished at the 847 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,080 Field of Fire. So yeah, some fossaways probably 848 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,400 burned alive that day. You won't forget that easily, 849 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,720 especially when it's fairly recently after. 850 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,000 But you also don't go wanting to repeat what happened at the 851 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,640 Field of Fire. You say, OK, we gave it our 852 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,520 shot. It went very badly. 853 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:29,840 There was no apples shot off of any Dragons heads that day. 854 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,120 Only one arrow landed on any of them. 855 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:33,760 Vicenya got hit by an arrow in the arm. 856 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,680 It would be funny if that was a fossil way arrow but we don't 857 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,680 have any idea. So you can see where the bad 858 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,440 feelings would come from. Yes and that's part of why Aegon 859 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,880 made the arrangements he did. That those bad feelings would be 860 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,800 there'd be some separation between him and the and the 861 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,200 ideas of vengeance. Fast forward to Jairus. 862 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,960 When he was young the Lord Tyrell was Lord Bertrand and 863 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,320 this Tyrell was exactly the sort of Tyrell overlord that the 864 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,280 Reach would be very displeased with. 865 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,400 After all those proud Green Hand kings, gardeners they had this 866 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,640 guy not a king of course but an alcoholic. 867 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,280 So alcoholic that he one time got really sick and then when he 868 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,120 recovered, he fell off his horse drunk and died. 869 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,520 He died falling off his horse. Like, yeah, that's woof. 870 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,800 Lord Manfred Red Wine, who was on the small council at the 871 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,600 time, thought Lord Bertrand was adult. 872 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,560 He said so in the histories recorded. 873 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,720 Quote. Bertrand had a younger son named 874 00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:37,400 Martin. Martin's wife was a Florence 875 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,640 Fossaway, and Martin was put in charge of the Reach's income. 876 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,080 So I mean, this is an interesting little tidbit about 877 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,480 how the Tyrells transitioned to ruling. 878 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,480 They had so much experience as stewards that the lower ranked 879 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,000 Tyrells, the the second and third sons could still get that 880 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,360 job. They'd still be quite well, 881 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,600 potentially well suited for that role, given it was their 882 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,560 family's role for literally thousands of years now. 883 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,160 Martin under him, he didn't seem like necessarily such a smart 884 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,880 guy. He, you know, he didn't seem 885 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:19,080 like he was real bright, not adult like Lord Bertrand, but 886 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,360 not bright yet. The incomes did really well 887 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,840 under him, like really well. Improvements at High Garden 888 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,880 elsewhere in the reach, like profits were up, efficiency was 889 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,600 up. Lots of things were going well. 890 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:38,760 And Sept and Barth took note of this cause Sept and Barth, man 891 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,680 from the Reach, he is familiar with reach politics, Reach 892 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,000 families, and just obviously a very smart and well read person 893 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,280 in general. He sussed it out. 894 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,360 He realized that it was Lady Florence behind the scenes, some 895 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,560 sort of math genius. You've been growing up counting 896 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:54,880 apples. Her nickname was the Apple 897 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,760 counter. And she basically was telling 898 00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,800 him what to do or giving him all the good advice. 899 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,600 And so all these great moves made by Martin were actually her 900 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,200 idea. Now you got to give the dude a 901 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,800 little credit. This is just some dummy just 902 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,400 doing what his wife says because she's not even in the council 903 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,400 meetings. So he has to at least be able to 904 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,640 communicate what's going on to her. 905 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,000 But she's the one making all the really snap smart calls here. 906 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,880 And so it's a kind of a teamwork thing where she's the front and 907 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,440 she's the brains. Barth figured this out. 908 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,880 He understood. He he, he's sussed it all out. 909 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,240 He's like, you know what? It's her. 910 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,240 But he didn't blow that up. He decided to let them have 911 00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,600 their secret and when the time came for a replacement, because 912 00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:36,560 Jairus had a really gifted Master of Coin named Rigo 913 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,560 Draves. He was Pentashi, his nickname 914 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,560 was the Lord of Air. He was very good at being a 915 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,320 Master of coin, but he got murdered during a plague. 916 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,280 Things were bad, people blamed him 'cause he's a foreigner and 917 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,600 after punishing the perpetrators personally, Jairus went and 918 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,040 searched for a new one. And Barth put forward Martin 919 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,480 Tyrell to be the new Master of Coin at the Red Keep. 920 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,200 And Jairus always willing to listen to Septon Barth always 921 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,480 took his advice well, often took his advice, certainly considered 922 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,960 it, because the man gave good advice, said, OK, let's do it. 923 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,600 And he didn't actually tell the king what the deal was. 924 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,320 He's he's like, you know what? I don't need to. 925 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,840 Nothing good could come of me spilling the secret. 926 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,200 Let's let them keep their secret. 927 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,040 Let Lady Florence keep running things from behind the scenes. 928 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,320 The realm will benefit Septon Barth did the right thing, I 929 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,440 suppose, by keeping that under wraps. 930 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,680 And it worked. Martin sat the council, passed 931 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,080 on the information to his wife and then Lady Florence would 932 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,640 make these really good decisions and he would get the credit and 933 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,840 those people in the know would know what was really going on. 934 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,720 But she effectively ran the treasury. 935 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:46,720 I mean, this was she was in charge of the purse strings of 936 00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:51,400 Westeros for a good stretch during one of the most prominent 937 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,520 times of the most prominent reign, meaning, And I mean 938 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,920 prominent in terms of Joharius was doing a lot to improve the 939 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,960 realm at this point, spending money, building things, 940 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:03,240 logistics, that sort of thing. Nina points out that this 941 00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,920 happened again many years later with Darren the second. 942 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,800 Ronald Penrose was master of coin, but it was actually his 943 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,280 wife, Elena Targaryen that running the ship. 944 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,520 By the way, Elena Targaryen and if I recall correctly, was one 945 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,920 of our winners for topics with this year. 946 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,560 So we'll be doing an episode on her as well. 947 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,440 There's also a hope that Lady Florence would become friends 948 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,200 with Al San, Queen Al San because Queen Al San was was 949 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,960 grieving over the death of her daughter Daenerys. 950 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,160 And but unfortunately there's no real follow up on this. 951 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,880 We don't hear if they did become friends or not, We only hear 952 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,760 that there was a hope of such. We do know that Lyman Beesbury 953 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,760 was eventually made Master Coin by Jay Harris. 954 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,360 Remember, Lyman Bazeberry is still Master Coin when the Dance 955 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,120 of the Dragons breaks out, so he's probably the one that took 956 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,720 over after Florence and Martin. I suppose it could have been 957 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,120 Martin's death that ended that whole arrangement. 958 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,840 It's possible she died first, which would have also ended it, 959 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,080 but it seems that they held the post for a very long time and 960 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,680 the realm benefited. The biggest direct benefit of 961 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:13,760 her being the behind the scenes manager of the Crown's money is 962 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,280 that this was the Rd. building era, right? 963 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,680 This is when the Kings Rd. the River Rd. the Rose Rd. the Ocean 964 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:26,000 road, the Gold Rd. were made from paths into roads, real 965 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,640 roads with stones and markers and in some cases defense and 966 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,000 probably other like mile marker. Just things like infrastructure 967 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,800 right? This money came from her 968 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,320 management. They would not have been enough 969 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,440 for it otherwise. So when any W trusty person is 970 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:49,080 wandering the roads, they should thank the old King, yes, for 971 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,560 pushing this in the 1st place, but Lady Florence Fossaway the 972 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,520 probably the person who facilitated it the most. 973 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,120 It was an old King's decision, but her effort, her 974 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,440 calculations, her quality management of the treasury. 975 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,960 Chatty Lumpkin sends a big super chat from Canada and says Happy 976 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:08,760 Easter. This should get you at least 4 977 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,160 chocolate bunnies or better, a bunch of chocolate covered 978 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,680 apples. I have to go make dinner but 979 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,000 we'll catch up later. Well thank you very much Chatty 980 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,960 Lumpkin and thank you all to the rest of you. 981 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,120 I'm hopeful that we can be a part of your Easter while you're 982 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,400 hanging out with your friends and family, listening to us 983 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:25,200 either this episode or something else from our catalog. 984 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,840 And we're very privileged to be a part of that, to be part of 985 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,520 y'all's holiday celebrations or just traveling to and from the 986 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,120 holidays. Maybe you're listening to us in 987 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,360 the car as you're driving to be with your family for Easter. 988 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,960 Maybe you're catching this later as you're driving home. 989 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,720 Either way, I feel very thankful that we can be a part of that. 990 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,360 Such a important time for everyone's families getting 991 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:48,160 together like that. The Reds Stay Green is our next 992 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,040 section. The Fossaways fought with the 993 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,200 greens, like most of the Reach did during the dance. 994 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,600 I mean, Apple's turning black. Yeah, that's that's kind of 995 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,080 gross, right? The black apple, I would not eat 996 00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,280 that. Actually, maybe I would. 997 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,120 It might look really cool if it's kind of like a purplish 998 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,560 dark, maybe I would show me this black apple. 999 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,720 Then I will decide whether I want to eat it. 1000 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,920 But usually that means rotten, right? 1001 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:14,480 Like So he marched with the host under Lord Orman Hightower, 1002 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,440 meaning whoever the Fossaway Lord of the time was. 1003 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,800 And this would have been supported by Prince Daron and 1004 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,400 the Blue Queen Tasarian. So they would have been part of 1005 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,200 the army that did it right. The one army that had a dragon 1006 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,360 with it that used that dragon properly. 1007 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,320 They had a good management of roles there. 1008 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,240 The dragon worked well with the army, the army worker, the 1009 00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:41,280 dragon, they, they fought in concert together, things that 1010 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,080 Caraxes and Vergar and the other Dragons didn't do so much of. 1011 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:47,120 But this didn't last very long, right? 1012 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,200 The fight. They may have been at the Battle 1013 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,320 of Honeywine, the fossil ways, but they may have just been 1014 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,840 waiting farther N at their castle to join Lord Ormond as he 1015 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,320 marched N 'cause that's where he was headed. 1016 00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,520 Ormond's headed north to go to King's Landing. 1017 00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:02,000 I don't know why necessarily the fossil ways would March S to 1018 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,280 join and then just March right back N with them. 1019 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,600 May as well just, hey, we'll join you on the way. 1020 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,280 That's probably what happened, but I don't know for sure. 1021 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:14,160 The most famous apple of the era was a member of the Caltrop, so 1022 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,280 it wasn't his battlefield work that we're familiar with. 1023 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,040 And this is Owen Fosseway. Lord Owen Fosseway. 1024 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,040 And he may have been the final Lord of Cider Hall. 1025 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,440 He's certainly the last Lord we know of, cause at some point 1026 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,400 after the dance but before Ashford, they get demoted to 1027 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,040 Knightly House. So this, like I said, might have 1028 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,800 been the last one. Now, what happened with him 1029 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,000 specifically Lord Owen? 1st, we have the first battle of 1030 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,000 Tumbleton, which goes well for the Greens, and they take the 1031 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,240 city. They flip the two betrayers to 1032 00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:51,120 their side at some point, probably prior to the battle, 1033 00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:57,640 and then they expect to rule over the two betrayers and 1034 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,200 dominate them. And because they're lowborn, 1035 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,280 right? And Hobart Hightower takes 1036 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,800 charge because he's the highest ranking guy there. 1037 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,640 Ormond was killed in the first battle. 1038 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,200 Excuse me, Houbert. Excuse me. 1039 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:15,440 Houbert was killed. Houbert was killed in that, or 1040 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,720 was rather Ormond was killed and Houbert took over. 1041 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:23,080 And Houbert was just not very, shall we say, a strong 1042 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,160 personality. And that's why the two betrayers 1043 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,760 started to get more and more uppity, especially Hugh Hammer 1044 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,040 started making royal pretensions and all that. 1045 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:36,080 And that got people upset. The nobles of the Reach who were 1046 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,200 still there and alive, formed the Caltrops. 1047 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,440 Lucky 13 of them. I don't know if they, they don't 1048 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,360 have the same idea of lucky numbers as we do here in in the 1049 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,760 real world. So maybe maybe they didn't 1050 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,360 recognize the unlockitude of 13. Anyway, as we know, the whole 1051 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,040 Caltrops thing didn't work out so well for the Caltrops or for 1052 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,880 anybody really. They were getting ready to 1053 00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,600 murder Hugh Hammer. And but before they could do 1054 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,080 that, the second Battle of Tumbleton broke out and eight of 1055 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,200 the 13 Cal traps were killed during it, including Lord Owen. 1056 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:12,720 So very ignominious fall there trying to work behind the 1057 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,600 scenes, trying to do murder. Just poor leadership all around. 1058 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,120 He wasn't in charge. That was it was usually Lord 1059 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,880 Peak before that, Lord Orman Hightower. 1060 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,320 So we can't blame him for too much, but he certainly doesn't 1061 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:27,080 come out looking good either. Now, if we look forward to the 1062 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,880 next major civil war, it would be the Black Fire Rebellion, 1063 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,160 just as it was during the dance. Foster White. 1064 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,480 You can't go black, right? Black apples again. 1065 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:36,760 They just no, no, no, no. Stay. 1066 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,600 They're already red. Stay that way. 1067 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:45,640 But again, this has to be filtered through the lens of 1068 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,720 their legion Lord. It's possible they didn't do a 1069 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:53,640 whole lot because Leo Longthorne and Tyrell, he fought some 1070 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,120 battles, but those battles were in and around the Reach against 1071 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,760 houses that did go black. The Fossaways were not at the 1072 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,560 red grass field. Leo Longthorne was not at the 1073 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,200 red grass field. So it's possible the Fossaways 1074 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,840 were actually there. But we're 99% chance. 1075 00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,080 No because they would have been following Leo Tyrell. 1076 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,320 He's their Liege Lord. He was the battle commander. 1077 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,040 Since he did take the field, they'd be with him, right? 1078 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,040 Well, I don't know why they'd break off and head to the Red 1079 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,960 Grass field. We don't really hear about 1080 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,800 Reachman on the Red Grass field for the most part. 1081 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,800 It's mostly Damon's host, which would have had some Reachman in 1082 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,120 it, but not on the side of the Reds. 1083 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,440 The Reds were Rivermen, Dornishman, Stormlanders. 1084 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,600 It's unveilment. That was the majority of the 1085 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,720 force that fought at the Red Grass Field for the Loyalists. 1086 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,240 But yeah, there was a lot of fighting in the Reach and it was 1087 00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:43,960 marcher houses that lesser marcher houses that fought for 1088 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,040 Damon. So, and a lot of them are 1089 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,480 Marshall. They wanted to they joined him 1090 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,800 because they were like him or of his cut from the same cloth, 1091 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,360 like they were warrior types nightly, maybe even chivalrous. 1092 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,000 They liked fighting and they saw it as a way up, a way to maybe 1093 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,840 rise the ranks, you know, fight for the winning side, get 1094 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,080 promotions, get new lands, get new titles. 1095 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,720 So that's interesting because we do know that it was probably by 1096 00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:15,320 this time that the fossil ways had lost their status as Lord 1097 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:20,480 have been demoted tonight's if they had already lost again, it 1098 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,440 happened between 1:30 and two O 9 if they lost their status. 1099 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,640 So we don't know when it's just it's a pretty wide range there. 1100 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,760 But if it was prior to the red grass field, it's interesting 1101 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,200 that they stayed loyal because that would have been a way like 1102 00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,720 Sir Eustace Osgrey. That's one of the reasons he 1103 00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:39,840 took up with Damon Blackfriar was to get lands back that his 1104 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,200 family had taken away from him because of prior reverses. 1105 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,160 This could have been a good opportunity for the foster to 1106 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,000 say, Hey, Damon will join you if you put us back up on the lordly 1107 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,000 level. That's our that's our ask. 1108 00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,360 But apparently that's not what happened. 1109 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,560 Either their demotion hadn't yet happened or it it was not the 1110 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,040 opportunity they started like no, I don't think so. 1111 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,400 I think we're we're going to stay loyal. 1112 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,520 The Lord Foss away at the time or the Sir Foss away at the time 1113 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:08,360 stayed red. Now there might have been 1114 00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,080 multiple factors, but Damon blackfires, the call of Damon, 1115 00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,280 the the allure of Damon Blackfyre was not sufficient. 1116 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,600 All right, I've talked about it quite a few times, brought it up 1117 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,320 here and there. Let's actually talk about this 1118 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,720 demotion with some focus as directly rather than speaking 1119 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,440 around it. This could be an under radar, 1120 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,440 under the radar aspect to what Sir Stefan was doing. 1121 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,600 Remember, he wanted to be made a Lord by Aaron. 1122 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,440 That was the deal. He he he probably asked for 1123 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,440 that. It wasn't say, hey, what will 1124 00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,400 you give me for this? He's like, so that adds a whole 1125 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,600 extra dimension to it. He wasn't seeking to gain a 1126 00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,200 lordship so much as he was looking to have it restored, 1127 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,400 right? So that's a, that's a smaller 1128 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,680 ask too, when you think about it, like being promoted to 1129 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,920 Lord's a big deal. But if it's a house that was a 1130 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,480 lordly house for thousands of years and has only not been for 1131 00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,600 a few decades, that's a, that's a smaller change. 1132 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,480 The the problem is we don't know what put them in that place in 1133 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,560 the 1st place. What exactly are you reversing? 1134 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,720 What decision? Which king? 1135 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,400 Probably was probably a king that did this. 1136 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,120 It might have been a Lord Tyrell, but probably a king. 1137 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,680 What it why? What was the reason? 1138 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,160 It could have been something really serious, in which case 1139 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,840 it's a hard thing to reverse. But it could have just been like 1140 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,720 egg on the unworthy. Didn't like apples, maybe drank 1141 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,760 too much of their cider, had a bad hangover and blamed it on 1142 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,440 them. You know, like, I would not put 1143 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,440 anything past that guy. Maybe some Fossaway girl he 1144 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,040 didn't like. She treated him badly. 1145 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:34,600 Badly. You know, You know what I mean 1146 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,560 by that? Like didn't please him, failed 1147 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,640 to please him properly. So it could be something real 1148 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,960 petty, like the the teats being given back and forth between the 1149 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,040 Blackwoods and the brackets, That kind of nonsense that Aegon 1150 00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,120 the 4th engaged in. That could easily be it. 1151 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,360 Now, on the other hand, if that was it, you'd think it would 1152 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,120 have been reversed. Why? 1153 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,640 Like that guy did it just let's just forget that happened. 1154 00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,120 Let's let's make you Lords again. 1155 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:03,360 So maybe it's not that because the argument for reversing it 1156 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,160 would have been pretty strong. As we said, it wasn't because 1157 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,440 they fought for the black fires. That doesn't explain it. 1158 00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:12,360 Maybe it was cheating the crown of tax revenues. 1159 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,040 They're a mercantile operation. Maybe there was some very long 1160 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,000 still, like some Enron level accounting fraud, some very 1161 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,120 substantial amount of money withheld from the crown or from 1162 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,680 their Liege Lord or both. I could see that being and 1163 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,200 that's a pretty big shame. You know, something that gets 1164 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,920 them demoted, but they can't pay it all back because we're 1165 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,760 talking about such a huge amount of money that was swindled over 1166 00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,240 the centuries. Maybe something big. 1167 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,880 Nina has another idea that I like. 1168 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,720 There are false Darrons. If you recall after or during 1169 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,160 the reign of Aegon the third. Remember Prince Darren the 1170 00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,520 daring the story of his death is told many different ways at the 1171 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,000 second Battle of Tumbleton. It was and then because his 1172 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,160 death was uncertain, there were false Darrons that appeared 1173 00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:01,400 claiming to be him and there were some small to do's about 1174 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:02,920 that. And these happened in the Reach. 1175 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,120 So maybe, yeah, maybe Cider Hall got mixed up in one of these 1176 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,200 false Darrons and and it went very badly for them. 1177 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,920 Didn't go well for them if they. None of these went well for 1178 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,240 anyone who got involved, except for the ones who stayed loyal of 1179 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,240 course, because that's who won. But. 1180 01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,160 Yeah, I mean, if the Hightowers were in on it, like the 1181 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,240 Hightowers are the ones who knew Prince Darren, he lived there, 1182 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,680 He squired there. And so if a Hightower comes out 1183 01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,040 and says this is Prince Darren, that is believable. 1184 01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,040 You know, that's at least credible. 1185 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:37,320 Even if it's not true, it has the ring of truth to it because 1186 01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,280 these are people who would have credibility on that. 1187 01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,400 So on the other hand, the Hightowers didn't get demoted 1188 01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:44,880 for any of these false Darren things. 1189 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,080 Maybe they lost status and prestige, but it's it'd be a lot 1190 01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,600 to make the Lords of Old Town a nightly house. 1191 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,200 Maybe that's that's a that would be a huge demotion. 1192 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,320 So maybe that's part of it. Either way, it's a good theory 1193 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,000 that they were involved in one of these smaller revolutions or 1194 01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,840 rebellions that didn't go very well, and that was what got them 1195 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,560 demoted. Maybe they were scapegoated too, 1196 01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,680 because no one else seems to have been demoted. 1197 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,760 We've got all these houses that descend from Garth Greenhand, 1198 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,280 the his first children. And this is the only house 1199 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,000 that's nightly. The rest are all lordly. 1200 01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,520 And of course they were lordly. So, yeah, it's it's a little 1201 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,040 unusual, a little confusing, but something to think about. 1202 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:27,480 Ashford Meadow. Yeah. 1203 01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,080 Let's talk about Ashford itself. Here is one of my favorite 1204 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:35,560 introductions by way of pun. Puns plural quote. 1205 01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:40,320 I may not be ripe, but my good cousin is rotten to the core. 1206 01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,840 Knock the seeds out of them. I'm always going to remember the 1207 01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,200 way Sean Thomas delivered that line too. 1208 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:47,520 It was great. It was like, oh, that's exactly 1209 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:48,760 how I wanted that line to be delivered. 1210 01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,080 I didn't, I didn't even know it, you know, knock the seeds out of 1211 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,360 him. So many puns all in one line 1212 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,040 there. Yeah, maybe. 1213 01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,680 I can't think of a Punnier introduction in all of A Song of 1214 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,960 Ice and Fire, slash Night of the Seven Kingdoms, slash World of 1215 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,160 Ice and Fire, all the all the Martin verse stuff. 1216 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,160 I don't know of a Punnier one. There might be one. 1217 01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,720 I'm I'm open to nominations. Please throw your Punnie 1218 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,760 nominations at me. I will judge them and laugh at 1219 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,760 them, not at you, because I love puns. 1220 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,200 But it's actually 100% accurate, right, Sir? 1221 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,840 Stefan does turn out to be the second biggest villain, rotten 1222 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,320 to the core of the story after Aryan, who of course he teams up 1223 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,720 with, you know, villains playing with villains here. 1224 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:28,840 Now Aryan is the villain you see coming. 1225 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,520 Stefan's introduction, He's more like, this guy's a jerk, he's an 1226 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:32,960 ass. He isn't necessarily an 1227 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,760 antagonist. He isn't necessarily the bad guy 1228 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:39,080 or not the bad guy, but he is. He's actually an example of 1229 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,720 corrupted nightly values, someone that uses the cover of 1230 01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:47,080 knighthood for to do kind of crappy things, which is very, 1231 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:48,960 very, very against what Dunk is. Right. 1232 01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:50,760 That's the anti Dunk right there. 1233 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:56,640 Like Dunk again, isn't probably really a knight, but is more one 1234 01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:59,360 than any other. And and Raymond comes along and 1235 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,280 is like, hey, we have a lot in common in that regard. 1236 01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,040 Raymond wasn't a knight, but he acted more like 1 than anybody 1237 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,880 else there except for perhaps Dunk, and then became one 1238 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:12,480 because of that behavior and earning it and being worthy and 1239 01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,840 stepping up when the time came when someone needed to step up, 1240 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:17,720 he did it. I mean, right. 1241 01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:22,720 So here you see coming, I think more so so it it's just to me, 1242 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,560 it's really neat and fun how big a part of the story the 1243 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,480 phosphaways are not just as their characters and their 1244 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:32,080 presence, but what they stand for and how they're flip two 1245 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,840 sides of the same apple. I don't know coin whatever, like 1246 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,320 Stefan and Raymond, just very opposites, yet so close to each 1247 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,200 other. They've the apple does fall far 1248 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,880 from the tree. Let me address that real quickly 1249 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,640 because it's kind of a funny backwards thing. 1250 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,040 The phrase the apple falls far from the tree or never falls far 1251 01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,240 from the tree is a euphemism for people are like their parents, 1252 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:55,840 like people are like their families. 1253 01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,240 You grow up, you end up a lot like the tree you came from. 1254 01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,680 What's funny about that is that is really not true for apple 1255 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,360 trees. Apples that grow from seeds 1256 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,320 don't turn out like the trees they came from. 1257 01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,040 It's you have to use the rootstock to get the to get them 1258 01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,360 to have genetic copies. So seeds don't do that way. 1259 01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,000 Seeds are very random, which is a good thing I'll explain later, 1260 01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:23,000 but here it's not. And it's funny because if an 1261 01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,240 apple grow, if an apple doesn't go far from the tree, it's not 1262 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:31,520 going to grow because it's going to attempts to sprout under 1263 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:36,000 another tree that's already big, grown fully and taking all the 1264 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,840 light. So that's a bad place for you 1265 01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:39,800 need to get farther away to grow. 1266 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,400 So the apple should fall far from the tree. 1267 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:47,560 The better apples do fall farther from the tree, the more 1268 01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,720 successful apples work out that way. 1269 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:51,920 If you don't leave the tree, you're not going to, you're not 1270 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,560 going to thrive, y'all, if you're an apple. 1271 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:59,520 So back to Stefan, it looks like he's going to fight for Dunk and 1272 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:04,200 it's really clever just the the writing here, because you see 1273 01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:05,840 that he's doing it for the wrong reasons. 1274 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,400 That's not him. You're like, oh, this guy, he's 1275 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,520 out for glory, a taste of glory. It's their freaking motto for 1276 01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,160 for gosh sake. But that works. 1277 01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,320 You're like, I'll take it. You know, I don't, I don't 1278 01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,640 necessarily want him fighting on those terms, but I need people 1279 01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,240 to fight for me. I, I, I, that's the first order 1280 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,080 of business here. Why he's fighting for me is less 1281 01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:25,800 important than the fact that he's going to fight for me. 1282 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,880 And that just sets aside all your suspicions. 1283 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,800 Like, all right, well, this guy's in, you know, he's not in 1284 01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,920 it for the right reasons, but his reasons are 1000% 1285 01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:36,440 believable. He wants glory. 1286 01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,480 Absolutely believable. A bajillion percent believable. 1287 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,280 So you set your suspicions aside. 1288 01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,080 Most of us do. So when his turn comes, it's 1289 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,120 like, wow, I should have seen that coming. 1290 01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,240 But the writing was so good. You thought you had a motivation 1291 01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,480 nailed down for this guy. And no, his motivation was much 1292 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,240 bigger. His motivation from the 1293 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,880 beginning, from the moment he offered it to Dunk, was to gain 1294 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,000 favor with Aryan. He may have had the idea to get 1295 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,600 that lordship. The moment he saw what was 1296 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,040 happening, the moment the trial for combat, trial by 7 was 1297 01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,200 announced, Stefan might have had that idea. 1298 01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,800 He's like, oh, I got a move I can make right here. 1299 01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:16,200 His villainous wheels were turning in his brain, the little 1300 01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,720 gears shifting here and there. He found that play and it 1301 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,680 worked. He says he's like, yeah, well, 1302 01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:25,160 Aryan wouldn't have given me much for it if it didn't screw 1303 01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,160 over Sir Duncan. I think the show line was it 1304 01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,480 wouldn't have. He wouldn't have accepted but 1305 01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,520 for it for did Sir Duncan? Yeah, it it only worked because 1306 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:34,480 he had gotten an an arrangement in the 1st place. 1307 01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,680 I can't screw over Sir Duncan if he doesn't think I'm on his 1308 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,880 team. So yeah, it was very, extremely 1309 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:42,600 well done. Raymond doubts his motivations. 1310 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,280 Don't doubts his motivations. We doubt his motivations. 1311 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,560 But then we see, oh, it's glory that that fits. 1312 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,800 But no, that was lordship restoring a lordship. 1313 01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:55,240 If if the topic of the lost Fossaway lordship had been 1314 01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,480 thrown into the mix in the hedge night, people want to suss that 1315 01:06:58,480 --> 01:06:59,680 out. You may be like, that's what his 1316 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:05,120 angle is, but just make me a Lord that's coming after the 1317 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,560 fact that you don't necessarily tie that together, yet it still 1318 01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:10,440 fits. It's a it's a kind of reward a 1319 01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,800 man like that would seek. Just you don't know that there's 1320 01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,320 a history behind that reward. So the fossil ways were huge in 1321 01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,560 the story, as we saw. There's no subtracting that. 1322 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,240 I mean, they're as big as anyone. 1323 01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,600 Not literally. Dunk was taller, but actually 1324 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:24,440 Raymond's taller than Shawn Thomas. 1325 01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:26,800 All of them are like, everyone's smaller, right? 1326 01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,760 Except for maybe Egg. You know, like Dunk is 6 inches 1327 01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,320 shorter than Book Dunk. Laughing Storm, Ditto. 1328 01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,280 Raymond, Ditto. They're all like just smaller 1329 01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:36,960 anyway. But whatever, that's Makar is 1330 01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,360 smaller. That's just how it goes. 1331 01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,480 All TV characters, you just kind of have to go with that. 1332 01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,640 So Dunks, Dunk had a very diverse group with him, right? 1333 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,080 You had people there for a variety of reasons, for honor, 1334 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:51,160 for dunks friendship, for revenge, for just to test 1335 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,200 themselves against the Kingsguard. 1336 01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,800 Maybe in Lionel's case Aryans was not though. 1337 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,080 He had three Targaryens, 3 Kingsguard and a Fossaway. 1338 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,320 So yeah, that's just kind of stands out doesn't it? 1339 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,560 And then after the fact it stands out for the wrong 1340 01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,720 reasons. We had Targaryens and Fossaways 1341 01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,800 on both sides, but everybody already kind of hated Aryan. 1342 01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,400 And Dunk was, I mean, and, and Daron was kind of like a, well, 1343 01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:13,800 people don't have strong opinions on him one way or the 1344 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:14,880 other. He's kind of forgettable. 1345 01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:19,160 But Baylor, that would have had a big effect because, yeah, 1346 01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:23,399 despite what the show gave us, Baylor was popular, just not as 1347 01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:25,920 popular with some people as we might have thought. 1348 01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:32,600 So Stefon was aiming to regain that lordship instead of his 1349 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,720 taste for glory and his rise. It probably backfired horribly. 1350 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,520 We don't know the full extent of it, but Ashford became very 1351 01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,399 famous after the fact. And man, what is he? 1352 01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:46,680 He looks like the biggest heel, right? 1353 01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,880 He joined the other side, which isn't going to make him popular. 1354 01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,399 He was reneged on a deal to Sir Duncan. 1355 01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:56,840 That's bad because Sir Duncan goes on to become more and more 1356 01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,000 famous, popular with the Commons, and this is the guy 1357 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,040 that betrayed him. That's a bad look. 1358 01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,680 So he looked like a heel for nothing, in fact, for negative 1359 01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:07,920 value and he probably broke some ribs apparently. 1360 01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,760 So for a man who wanted a taste of glory, he he bit into a wormy 1361 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:19,279 apple instead, and it I'd like to think that his life was 1362 01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:24,120 permanently a tied to this deed of his. 1363 01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,840 You know, he may have aimed for some sort of redemption to try 1364 01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,479 to look good in the longer. This doesn't seem like the kind 1365 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,439 of person he was. He just probably eventually 1366 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,960 inherited the Cider hall and became an even worse person 1367 01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:37,000 because he had even more power to throw around. 1368 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,279 And yeah, I don't suppose his reputation among the nobility 1369 01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:41,120 was good either. Though. 1370 01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,760 I mean, going against Dunk, I don't know if people cared about 1371 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:45,000 that too much amongst the nobility. 1372 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,040 Some of them would, certainly his cousin did, and some of the 1373 01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:49,160 other people that fought with Dunk. 1374 01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,000 But overall I think it'd be a lot of shrugging about that. 1375 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,000 Kind of like how the nobility laughed at Dunk or farted at him 1376 01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,640 or whatever. But joining Aryan, though, I 1377 01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,120 don't know about that. That's just especially after the 1378 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:02,240 fact. Especially saw what kind of 1379 01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,920 person he was. More time passing. 1380 01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:08,720 And Aryan just continues to not be a good person. 1381 01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,000 I don't think that's a good look. 1382 01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,760 He looks ambitious. He looks opportunistic, doesn't 1383 01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,960 look honorable. It doesn't come out looking like 1384 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,040 a great fighter either. He couldn't beat his cousin who 1385 01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,960 had just been knighted, in fact, lost to him. 1386 01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:24,880 Yeah, it just went it backfired horribly. 1387 01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,320 I mean, he didn't die that that would have been worse, I guess. 1388 01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,560 But his reputation may have been in the toilet like, forever 1389 01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,400 because of that. Now, of course, his no one 1390 01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,800 should feel sorry for him. He's almost certainly still 1391 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,560 inherited Cider Hall. And I don't know why you'd feel 1392 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,280 sorry for a jerk like that anyway. 1393 01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:45,640 But he probably had a a life that was a a mixture of people. 1394 01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,920 Everybody hated him, but he also just had mostly what he wanted 1395 01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:50,760 all the time. But he probably wanted more. 1396 01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,080 He probably wanted to be seen differently and would have never 1397 01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,840 had that. So karma my man, Just karma. 1398 01:10:56,480 --> 01:10:58,880 He might have become even more hated over time because of as 1399 01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:03,280 dunked popularity, raised and eggs popularity as well and 1400 01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,760 other things. Then that could translate to an 1401 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,040 even bigger dislike of a man who was such a villain towards him. 1402 01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,440 On the other hand, Raymond's behavior would paint quite the 1403 01:11:14,440 --> 01:11:17,720 contrast. People would love to remember 1404 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:19,440 this guy. The stories people would tell 1405 01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:21,480 about these two fossaways, night and day. 1406 01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,840 You know, the good apple, the bad apple, the green and the 1407 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:25,920 red. It just, it's very gossipy. 1408 01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:27,320 It's the type of thing you would talk about. 1409 01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,920 It's it's interesting, like these two family members that 1410 01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:33,920 divided at such an important moment, creating such a great 1411 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,120 story. Like in World Story, it's great. 1412 01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,080 The hedge Knight's great, but I'm talking about what it meant 1413 01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,640 to people in World. Raymond made a name for himself. 1414 01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:45,000 He made a friend for himself. And we know their relationship 1415 01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,840 has more to come. We don't know what it is, but 1416 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,640 there's zero chance there's not more to come. 1417 01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:50,840 George has said there's more to come. 1418 01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,000 We we would have guessed confident that there was anyway. 1419 01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,400 But George has flat out said we'll see Raymond again. 1420 01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:58,360 There's plans to see Raymond again anyway. 1421 01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:00,960 So he's the sort of friend everyone needs. 1422 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,200 Like there's very few characters like him in A Song of Ice and 1423 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:05,800 Fire. We love comparing him to to 1424 01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:07,840 Podrick. And there is a lot of parallel 1425 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:13,280 there, lots of parallels there. But it's different the way the 1426 01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:15,880 need is, right? The Dunk really, really needed 1427 01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,080 this more. He's new in the world. 1428 01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,040 He's trying to find his place. He needed help more than Brienne 1429 01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:22,160 did. Now Brienne needed help for 1430 01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:25,640 sure. But Dunk, this guy's coming in 1431 01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:30,760 there naive without any ideas, way less, way more naivete than 1432 01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:31,880 Brienne. He was pretty naive. 1433 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,600 But Dunk is also younger. So also they're linked 1434 01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,120 thematically. There's just a lot of things 1435 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,360 that George aligned with them personality wise that makes 1436 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,000 their friendship, I guess, more believable. 1437 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,160 Not that it isn't not that it was never unbelievable, just it 1438 01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,160 just fits really well. Little things that make it work, 1439 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:52,000 like Duncan Egg are both kind of animals in book and show. 1440 01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,880 That's a green flag, right? And here we have green apple 1441 01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:58,360 Raymond doing similar things like taking care of Dunk's 1442 01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:02,360 horses for him, maybe more for Dunk than for the horses in the 1443 01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:04,360 book version. But in both versions, he takes 1444 01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,000 care of the horses. And then of course, sweet foot 1445 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:11,240 gets that very sweet send off in the show as well, which got to 1446 01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:12,600 love that. Having that associated with 1447 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,920 Raymond just does even more for making us love the guy. 1448 01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,920 Now, you know, speaking about the stories that would be told 1449 01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,080 about Ashford afterwards. I mean, throw the telephone game 1450 01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,680 in there afterwards and you have the most villainous Stefan 1451 01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,600 stabbing dunk in the back at the at the last minute and the 1452 01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:34,400 heroic Raymond stepping forward to try to erase or at least 1453 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,080 stand in contrast to his cousin's dark deeds here. 1454 01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:42,640 Just this, the barge, the musicians, the just the guy who 1455 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,200 sits at the bar and loves to be the center of attention when 1456 01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,200 people are buying him drinks, like ulf the White would love to 1457 01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:50,000 tell stories. Like this is a great story, 1458 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,000 right? There's multiple stories. 1459 01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,320 The stories of Baylor, the stories of Duncan Egg, the 1460 01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:56,720 stories of Raymond, the stories of Stefan, the stories of them 1461 01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,880 together, the stories we don't know about that happened 1462 01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:01,640 afterwards. People would be talking in the 1463 01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,520 world about these stories that we haven't yet heard, that the 1464 01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:08,800 Raymond's devotion would be just the the example, the example, 1465 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,800 the guy to be be like Raymond. Yeah, be like that. 1466 01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:16,680 That's how many Knights told their Squires be like Raymond 1467 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,680 Fosseway, Right. Or how many Knights when they 1468 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,120 came nice saying I want to be like Raymond Fosseway. 1469 01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:26,200 Yeah, they might even have these conversations over a cup of 1470 01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,280 cider that might be even what starts to be like, you know, 1471 01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,400 what's cider? Yeah, fossil ways. 1472 01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:32,560 How about that Raymond guy? Or how about that villainous 1473 01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,520 Stefan? Yeah, there's just a lot to say 1474 01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:36,440 there. And it's a real statement on 1475 01:14:36,440 --> 01:14:38,960 people and families, a big thing of what A Song of Ice and Fire 1476 01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:40,840 is about. Yeah, mostly we're dealing with 1477 01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,520 noble families, but noble families have that going for 1478 01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,440 them. They have the power and wealth 1479 01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:49,000 to make world shaking things happen when they have conflict. 1480 01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,160 They can be the best friends, they can be the worst rivals. 1481 01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:53,920 They can be big heroes, they can be big villains. 1482 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,240 Sometimes they can be multiples of those things, even the ones 1483 01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,240 that don't really align. So his frustration with House 1484 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,880 Targaryen and Book Raymond's amplified in the show would be a 1485 01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,840 nice fit for their demotion. That could be a little extra 1486 01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,800 angle to why Raymond and Stefan hate the Targaryen so much 1487 01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:12,000 because of that demotion, because it's almost certainly 1488 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,400 who did it right. We we throw out some guesses as 1489 01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,480 to why and and book Raymond didn't necessarily hate the 1490 01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:21,840 Targaryens. He may have felt sorry for them, 1491 01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,280 like Makar's sons. The vibe's a little different in 1492 01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,200 the book version. Either way, it's the thing 1493 01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:29,280 people gossip about. They're the Royals, right? 1494 01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:33,720 And he was complimentary to Baylor and wasn't didn't say 1495 01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,360 negative things about Eris and Ragal, meaning Raymond did so. 1496 01:15:36,440 --> 01:15:38,520 So yeah, the the tone's a little different about his Targaryen 1497 01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,960 takes in the book. And he even had reasons to pity 1498 01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:42,960 Makar. He himself knows what it's like 1499 01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,960 to be down the line. You know, not he's Raymond's not 1500 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,920 even a second son because he's not in the main line, not in the 1501 01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:51,320 main branch. He's in the junior branch. 1502 01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,040 Of course, he ends up forming his own branch, but not at the 1503 01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:59,440 time that hadn't yet happened. So off page, even if Raymond 1504 01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:02,120 was, even if Buck Raymond was more anti Targaryen than we may 1505 01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,760 have realized, that would have changed a bit after the fact, 1506 01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:06,800 right? He would have seen the kind of 1507 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,960 person Egg was and that Dunk was now tied to them. 1508 01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,400 And you know, you're the friend of my friends, etcetera. 1509 01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,040 And also, after splitting with his family, Raymond might have 1510 01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:17,680 started thinking ahead more. I mean, like, you know, I need 1511 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:19,520 some land. I need, if I want to do my own 1512 01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,920 thing, I need to get a parcel of land, which I don't know if 1513 01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,360 going against the royal house is the way to go about that. 1514 01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,760 So just from pure pragmatic angle, he might have been one of 1515 01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:32,200 the one of them on his side. And and just one last tidbit 1516 01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:33,880 about Raymond and his shield change. 1517 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,120 You can't just decide to make a cadet branch on a whim. 1518 01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,120 So in both book and show and he's like green apple fossil 1519 01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,440 ways or I'm not this anymore. That's unofficial. 1520 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:45,960 That's just him saying I want to distinguish my I mean, we've 1521 01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:51,040 seen a bajillion lesser second sons, third sons, whatever, just 1522 01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:54,800 do a different version of their sigil Bloodraven the younger 1523 01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,880 phrase, like everybody does it. So this is not necessarily a 1524 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,560 sign of new house exists. Now. 1525 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,800 Now, when he did found the house and they like established the 1526 01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:11,040 founding story, they 1000% include him changing his sigil 1527 01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:13,280 and she's like that was the moment you could say the house 1528 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,440 actually began, but it wasn't official until they got a 1529 01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:18,440 charter. They got land. 1530 01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:23,560 You know new barrel wasn't new barrel until he had a writ A 1531 01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:27,640 deed, right? Let's take a quick break and 1532 01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:30,400 then we'll come back with a bit more couple of questions from 1533 01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,040 you all. Adornish Dame 383 says. 1534 01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:34,520 I wonder if the fearsomely strong cider served at the Quill 1535 01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,240 and Tankard is sourced from the Fossaways. 1536 01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,800 I wonder that too. We have a little section on 1537 01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,640 where else cider is served here near the end of the episode or 1538 01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,360 actually not near the end of the episode here close to the middle 1539 01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,440 actually. And yeah, it could be maybe they 1540 01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:49,200 get a stronger version from them or maybe they just still it a 1541 01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,200 little bit. Distill the cider. 1542 01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:56,000 Distilled apple cider is apple Brandy. 1543 01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,280 Brandy is just distilled wine. So I don't know what the 1544 01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:01,840 difference would apple wine and apple distilled apple cider 1545 01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:03,920 would be. But either way, yeah. 1546 01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,080 So they could have, they could distill it a little bit, or they 1547 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:07,440 could just make it their own either way. 1548 01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:08,200 But it's possible. Yeah. 1549 01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,080 Guilty Undertaker said if The Hobbit taught us anything, you 1550 01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:12,960 can just float barrels of apples downstream. 1551 01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:15,560 Hey, that's a good point. I mean, people might steal 1552 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,840 those, but I mean, the apples are awfully plentiful, so they 1553 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:23,440 could afford to lose a few given the savings they would rack up 1554 01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:26,680 by not having to use boats, just throwing the barrels downstream. 1555 01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:30,680 You can afford to lose a few Cost of doing business. 1556 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:33,280 You know, Shay and I were joking right before the episode here 1557 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:36,480 about Stefan teaching Raymond, you know, And like, that's not 1558 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:39,760 the fossa way to do things, you know, like there's a proper way 1559 01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:45,640 and there's a fossa way. You know, given all the apple 1560 01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,480 puns, I'm surprised there's no Adam Foss away. 1561 01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:50,440 I mean, there's no Adam's apples in Westeros. 1562 01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:53,200 That's a, you know, that's too specific to the real world, too 1563 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,480 specific to Christianity or whatever as a, as an origin for 1564 01:18:56,480 --> 01:18:57,600 that. Phrase apple. 1565 01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:58,960 What's that? Your Garth's. 1566 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,080 Your Garth's apple. Your Foss's apple. 1567 01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,520 Yeah. But yeah, that would be funny to 1568 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,040 have a little Adam Foss away as a little Easter egg joke. 1569 01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,840 I was once in Santa Fe hanging out with one of George's 1570 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,040 assistants and we went to his theatre where we saw some 1571 01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,160 comedians and it was a very funny setup. 1572 01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:20,480 I think I've described this once before, but this is a good time 1573 01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:22,560 to bring it back because of the content. 1574 01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:28,400 Now, the the setup was this 16 local comedians, 15 of whom are 1575 01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,880 high, they'd smoked pot right before the show. 1576 01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:34,800 The audience had to figure out using the, you know, eliminate 1577 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,920 thing like a like a vote people off kind of deal just by 1578 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,360 applause, which comedian was sober. 1579 01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:45,360 So to figure we actually did it, I wasn't that good at it. 1580 01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:47,640 I thought I'd be better at it. But the crowd as well. 1581 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,880 I was part of the crowd. And we succeeded in sorting out 1582 01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:56,440 which comedian was sober. The first of the 16 was so 1583 01:19:56,440 --> 01:20:00,200 blatantly high. He didn't last at all because we 1584 01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,280 figured the process was they would answer questions and the 1585 01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:05,440 way they answered the question, would you be like, OK, this 1586 01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:09,440 guy's high or isn't? And the first guy was like, what 1587 01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:10,560 would you do if you had $1,000,000? 1588 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,480 That was the question. And the first comedians like 1589 01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:14,720 apples. I do something with apple 1590 01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:16,840 everything. That guy is high as hell. 1591 01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:19,200 He just blurts out the word apples. 1592 01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:23,600 When asked what he would do with $1,000,000, he just says apples. 1593 01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,080 Yeah, anyway, so not that relevant, but apples so and 1594 01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:29,120 funny. Let's give a shout out to those 1595 01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:30,720 of you who support us on Patreon. 1596 01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,480 It is super important for us, especially episodes like this 1597 01:20:33,480 --> 01:20:35,280 'cause you patrons picked this one. 1598 01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:38,760 And if you join our Patreon, you can help pick episodes in the 1599 01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,240 future as well. We have levels as low as 5 bucks 1600 01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,080 a month and I'll going all the way up to much, much higher. 1601 01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:48,440 That gets you access to things like our scripts and notes, 1602 01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:52,440 shout outs occasionally, and obviously the voting I mentioned 1603 01:20:52,440 --> 01:20:54,200 before. But most of all, you get access 1604 01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,560 to our bonus episode catalog, which is pretty substantial. 1605 01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,520 It's a lot of extra episodes. So if you've already heard our 1606 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,680 whole catalog and you want more 5 bucks a month or more, we'll 1607 01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:07,480 get you that and more. You can also support the show by 1608 01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,320 going to our website and using the shopping links, so Amazon 1609 01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:12,640 being the most prominent of those. 1610 01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,120 Anything you buy at Amazon. Amazon's a great place to shop 1611 01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:18,480 to get things really quickly. We use it a lot. 1612 01:21:18,480 --> 01:21:20,920 We use Prime to get things a lot of times. 1613 01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:24,000 There's been a number of times where we've had to order a piece 1614 01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,320 of gear for our podcasting and video set up. 1615 01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,200 Something breaks a cord here and there and we need to have that 1616 01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,840 quickly. And we like to shop locally when 1617 01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:36,720 we can, but often that really specific thing is not there and 1618 01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,880 we need it within one day or we'd have to cancel our episode, 1619 01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:41,280 postpone it. Well said. 1620 01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,840 Yeah, Amazon has saved a few of our episodes at least over the 1621 01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:45,520 years. And I totally agree with the 1622 01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:46,640 show. Yeah, we prefer to shop locally, 1623 01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:48,400 but sometimes you just got to do what you got to do. 1624 01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:52,240 You need things quickly. And yeah, so you can, if you 1625 01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,720 shop through Amazon on our links, going through our site, 1626 01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,240 you get charged the same amount and we get a little benefit from 1627 01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:02,320 it. Let us move on to the red stern 1628 01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:04,800 green. So yeah, the offshoot of 1629 01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:07,440 Ashford, of course, was the formation of house, fossil wave, 1630 01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:08,800 new barrel. Let's talk about how that might 1631 01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:11,120 have gone down because all we know is just those little 1632 01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,760 tidbits that were dropped sort of as Easter eggs or Easter 1633 01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:17,520 apples in both book and show about what was to come. 1634 01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:20,320 But the actual formation of the house wouldn't have been so 1635 01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,240 simple. Like I said, it couldn't just be 1636 01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:23,960 Raymond Change's sigil. And there you go. 1637 01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:27,560 This is where the nicknames Red Apple Fossaway and Green Apple 1638 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,760 Fossaway came from. There would no there's no reason 1639 01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,080 to differentiate when there was only one kind of Fossaway, the 1640 01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:34,880 greener nightly. Also, since they came along 1641 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,520 after Ashford and the Reds were also already a nightly house. 1642 01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,960 Not lordly anymore. So they became green also 1643 01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,760 nightly. We don't have house words for 1644 01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,200 them though. Nina chose Ripened by trial. 1645 01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:47,320 Nina's so good at coming up with fun house words. 1646 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:49,560 A really good one. I hardly even need to explain 1647 01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,560 what the implication is there. Ripened by trial. 1648 01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,920 He spoke of not being ripe enough that he fought in the 1649 01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:58,280 trial. And then soon after they have 1650 01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:00,320 their own house formed a cadet branch. 1651 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,640 So yeah, ripened by trial. It all happened because of 1652 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:04,480 Ashford Meadow. I like that. 1653 01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:07,720 So sometime after Ashford is when these things became 1654 01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,080 official. Obviously Raymond didn't just go 1655 01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,120 home and have land after Ashford. 1656 01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:17,200 In fact, it may have been a big to do given that the two 1657 01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,840 fossaways at Ashford were on opposite sides of the trial. 1658 01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:21,720 That may have caused some family strife. 1659 01:23:22,440 --> 01:23:25,840 Now, Raymond was the guy in the right, but Stefan's the higher 1660 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,880 ranking one, so I don't know how it went. 1661 01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,520 It may have been a serious dividing line in the family, 1662 01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,840 maybe not, but it's more fun to assume conflict in these 1663 01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,880 fictional settings, right? Nina's guess, and it's my 1664 01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:41,560 favorite guess, is that Raymond fought in the third Black Fire 1665 01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:46,200 rebellion and performed well. And of course, whenever there's 1666 01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,920 a big civil war like this, there's a lot of houses that get 1667 01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,280 stripped of their lands. There you go. 1668 01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,920 There's your very straightforward opportunity for 1669 01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,560 the green apple fossil ways to get land, fighting for the 1670 01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:02,560 loyalists, winning, getting rewarded from lands taken from 1671 01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:05,480 the losing side. That's super standard, very 1672 01:24:05,480 --> 01:24:07,400 believable. We don't actually know where new 1673 01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:11,760 Beryl is, but of besides being in the reach, but I'm would 1674 01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:16,240 guess that it was taken from a Lord or knightly house on the 1675 01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,960 losing side. So this is 10 years after 1676 01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:22,320 Ashford when the third Black Fire rebellion was that is. 1677 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:26,480 So once again just like previous engagements like in the Dance of 1678 01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:29,000 the Dragons, they would have fought under their Liege Lord. 1679 01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:32,840 Now Leo Longthorne was sick in 212 so he might have been dead 1680 01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:35,280 by the time of the third Blackfyre rebellion, but still 1681 01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:37,840 it would have been the Tyrell banners at the top. 1682 01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:42,040 Now by the time this happened he may have Raymond may have had a 1683 01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:47,200 different attitude about Aegon. And this is King Aries, the 1684 01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:49,800 first in charge. And the great spring sickness 1685 01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:51,800 had already happened. So a lot had changed. 1686 01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:53,680 Raymond may have been a different person by then. 1687 01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,320 He'd be a little bit older, a little more experienced. 1688 01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:59,320 His, his views on politics might have been a little different, 1689 01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:01,320 Who knows? Either way, that's, it's pretty 1690 01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:03,320 straightforward. There's rebel lands to, to 1691 01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,880 redistribute after the war. Robert's Rebellion, that's how 1692 01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,360 Davos probably got his lands from Connington lands. 1693 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,240 Lothor Brune got lands there. Damon Blackfar had a castle for 1694 01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,880 a while. It's gone now probably, or given 1695 01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:18,160 to somebody else. So there's just lots of examples 1696 01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,680 like this. We we we don't need more it 1697 01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,200 even. It's even possible that the 1698 01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:26,600 great Spring sickness wiped out a few houses entirely. 1699 01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,680 So there could have been new land to redistribute before the 1700 01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,320 third black fire rebellion, given that and that may have 1701 01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,840 been where the green ample phosphorus got their land. 1702 01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:39,240 But I feel like there has to have been something he did to 1703 01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:42,440 earn it and it fighting for Dunk might not have been enough. 1704 01:25:42,440 --> 01:25:45,960 Although because, you know, egg might have given that land, but 1705 01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:47,440 Egg doesn't become king for so much longer. 1706 01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,280 Maybe Egg convinced Makar to do it, maybe Egg convinced King 1707 01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,040 Aries, maybe Egg convinced Makar to convince King Aries. 1708 01:25:54,440 --> 01:25:57,760 Either way, it's a very good place to plant our flag in the 1709 01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:01,440 ground as the most likely possibility for where New Barrel 1710 01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:04,560 got its lands. It's even possible nowadays it 1711 01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,840 hasn't been that long, right? In terms of Ashford Meadow, 1712 01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,680 let's say New Barrel was founded roughly 10 years after Ashford 1713 01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:14,840 Meadow. So around 2:19 we'll we'll round 1714 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:19,280 it to 2:20. That means 78 years before Song 1715 01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,080 of Ice and Fire. In that time, given the Reds 1716 01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,800 were demoted, it's possible the Greens had overtaken the Reds in 1717 01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,080 terms of prominence. In turn, overtaking them in 1718 01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:31,160 wealth is maybe unlikely given how long the Reds have been 1719 01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:36,120 accumulating cider money. But having more land and being 1720 01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:38,160 richer doesn't mean you have a better product. 1721 01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:41,360 It's possible that they innovative and came up with some 1722 01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:44,320 better cider, right? Are they in competition with 1723 01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:46,120 each other? Do they share recipes? 1724 01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:48,520 Is the green apple Fossaway cider different than the red? 1725 01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:51,200 I would you would hope so because more options seems like 1726 01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:53,320 a good thing. Like everybody doesn't want just 1727 01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:56,120 the same cider all the time. And then and when we get to our 1728 01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,760 little brief section on real world cider, Oh my God, there 1729 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,000 are so many varieties of ciders and ways to make it, in part 1730 01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:07,160 because there's just an absurd number of apple species out 1731 01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,000 there. So part of this leads to the 1732 01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:14,080 possibility of given such a wide variety of options and 1733 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:18,040 possibilities and theoretical recipes for cider, the greens 1734 01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,280 could have gotten ahead. They're like, hey, our cider's 1735 01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:22,120 just better. The Reds might have had less 1736 01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,680 reason to innovate. It's they're the biggest game in 1737 01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:26,120 town. People are going to buy their 1738 01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:29,120 cider no matter what. But here comes the upstart green 1739 01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,560 apple fossa ways they needed. They need a way to get ahead. 1740 01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:35,480 We can't just be the same smaller version of the same 1741 01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:38,680 house selling the same cider. That's not going we're going to 1742 01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,440 get a leg up doing that. We need to innovate and that 1743 01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:43,440 might be what happened. And and maybe they innovative so 1744 01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:46,240 well that they overtook the Reds. 1745 01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:49,840 Maybe not. I mean, maybe just the IT helped 1746 01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,440 to get them on equal footing. And when we see in current time, 1747 01:27:52,440 --> 01:27:55,640 we get to the song of ice and fire section of this episode, 1748 01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:57,600 the fossil weighs in. Modern times are working 1749 01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:59,080 together. The greens and the Reds seem 1750 01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:01,560 kind of inseparable. It's almost like they just kind 1751 01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,880 of went back to being one house in some ways, which maybe 1752 01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,840 implies new barrel is not super far from Cider Hall. 1753 01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:12,000 You'd be hard pressed to find a reader who would guess we'll 1754 01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:15,080 never see Raymond again, and when we say Black Fire 3 is very 1755 01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:18,280 likely, we don't think it's the only time. 1756 01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:21,720 In fact, more recent comments by George indicate that they'll be 1757 01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,640 several opportunities to see Raymond if things go the way 1758 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:27,040 they're planned. Yes, when I said hard pressed, 1759 01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:31,920 it was a cider pun. Let's talk about the bad apple, 1760 01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,880 Sir Derek Fossaway. He was an exception to the 1761 01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:38,080 colorful pattern 'cause he had a so-called black reputation, 1762 01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,200 which we just got through saying these black apples sound very 1763 01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,560 untasty. But you know, what does it mean? 1764 01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:45,600 What does a black reputation mean? 1765 01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,720 Ambitious and and one is certain for a certainty. 1766 01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:51,040 Now ambition isn't necessarily a bad thing, but this guy's 1767 01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:54,600 ambition was murderous, ruthless. 1768 01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:57,680 I don't know. But not a good person, but 1769 01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:01,400 successful in being not good. He couldn't have just been an 1770 01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:05,320 ordinary knight because he's in the Band of Nine. 1771 01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:09,440 The Band of 9 was Melee's the monstrous captain general of the 1772 01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:11,680 Golden Company, biggest cell sword company there is. 1773 01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:14,040 It ever has been. There's pirate captains. 1774 01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,320 There's other famous cell sword captains. 1775 01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,760 There's Aliquo, Silver tongue, Right? 1776 01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:22,440 This guy was like a major political operator. 1777 01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:28,600 So how was a knight get into this company with cell sword 1778 01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:32,760 capped at 10,000 strong like merchant Prince's pirate cat? 1779 01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:34,760 Like how does just a knight get in there? 1780 01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:38,280 So the implication is that he was more than just a knight. 1781 01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:41,320 That may have been his highest title, but he had done something 1782 01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:45,320 of note or several somethings of note to establish himself. 1783 01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:49,360 For one thing is one thing's a certain that he was exiled from 1784 01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:51,080 the Seven Kingdoms. So something that was like a 1785 01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:55,440 capital, not a capital charge, but got him kicked out, you 1786 01:29:55,440 --> 01:30:00,720 know, something bad, but not bad enough to be executed for. 1787 01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:02,640 I don't know. I mean, that's that's not super 1788 01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:06,920 uncommon for the nobility to get to evade the death penalty. 1789 01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:12,320 But exile is less common than just some severe penalty or 1790 01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:15,360 taking the black, right? Like taking the black is more 1791 01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:16,200 common. You're sent to the wall. 1792 01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:19,520 So, so maybe implies that he was exiled in part because they 1793 01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:21,720 didn't catch him. He got away and so they declared 1794 01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:25,360 him in exile. He's unlawful as a resident of 1795 01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,680 Westeros, but this wasn't a penalty inflicted on him after 1796 01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,080 he was caught and tried, right? Because if he was, maybe he 1797 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:32,560 would have been, he probably would have been sent to the 1798 01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:34,200 Wall. I mean, there's exceptions like 1799 01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:35,880 John Connington and things like that. 1800 01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:38,040 But but that brings us to another point. 1801 01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,080 Most exiled Knights from Westeros join the Golden 1802 01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:43,080 Company. They don't become a 1803 01:30:44,440 --> 01:30:48,000 contemporary, a someone on equal footing within this group, the 1804 01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:49,400 Band of Nine, the Ninepenny King. 1805 01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,520 So Sir Derek Faso somehow is on relatively equal footing within 1806 01:30:53,520 --> 01:31:00,280 the Band of Nine to Melis and these other big deal bad guys in 1807 01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:01,760 the Band of Nine. So what did? 1808 01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,720 I have no idea what he did, but something substantial, something 1809 01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:08,000 criminal. Maybe he was a underworld figure 1810 01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:10,960 and the others are mentioned as cell sword captains and pirate 1811 01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:13,560 captains. So he's not that because why 1812 01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:16,960 would they be famous cell swords and him just Sir Derek Fossaway, 1813 01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:18,680 who? Oh yeah, I know he was a cell 1814 01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:21,000 sword guy also. It just isn't mentioned. 1815 01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:23,880 I don't believe that. So something else. 1816 01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:26,960 But but what? Something substantial to put him 1817 01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:28,840 on equal footing with these other big players. 1818 01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,520 Maybe he made off with some of his own family's wealth. 1819 01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:39,120 Maybe he stole the big portion of Fossaway wealth and did 1820 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:41,520 criminal things with it. It doesn't just have to be one 1821 01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:43,840 thing too. He could have done a lot of 1822 01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,240 different dastardly things that brought him to the attention of 1823 01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:50,720 the other members of the band. Maybe he had a powerful mother. 1824 01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:53,360 Maybe he was a Tyrell by birth on his mother's side. 1825 01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:56,320 So that gave him extra clout and wealth, potentially access to 1826 01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,280 things. Let's look at the timeline. 1827 01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:02,040 This guy, Sir Derek Fossaway was active in the Band of Nine. 1828 01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,680 The Band of Nine invaded Westeros IN259260. 1829 01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:07,800 That's when the 9 Penny Kings war began. 1830 01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:13,000 That's only, you know, 51 years after Ashford, which isn't 1831 01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:16,440 exactly a lot of space for like a lot of different generations 1832 01:32:16,440 --> 01:32:18,880 to squeeze in there. We don't know whether he's red 1833 01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:23,000 apple or brown or green apple. I would lean red because it's 1834 01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:26,640 tempting to lean towards him having been influenced by 1835 01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:27,560 Stefan. Right. 1836 01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,960 Like Stefan was a a jerky guy who might have gotten jerkier as 1837 01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:34,920 his reputation for such became well known as his taste for 1838 01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:37,680 glory attempt backfired horribly. 1839 01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:42,400 It may have had an effect on his immediate family. 1840 01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:45,920 If Stefan inherits has a son, maybe it's this guy or maybe he 1841 01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:47,400 has several sons and this is one of them. 1842 01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:51,480 Yeah, this Sir Derek Fossaway could be a direct descendant. 1843 01:32:51,480 --> 01:32:54,200 Not just direct descendant, but the son of Sir Stefan Fossaway. 1844 01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:55,600 He could be a son of Raymond too. 1845 01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,320 Just a, you know, a good guy has a bad son. 1846 01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,320 What can you do? But it's, it's just tempting to 1847 01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:05,080 lean Stefan because you could see a guy raised by Stefan 1848 01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:07,520 turning out like this, right? Someone who takes after his 1849 01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:10,520 father, and his father's a real piece of work, a real rotten 1850 01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:11,840 apple. And this guy's a real rotten 1851 01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:13,720 apple, right? He just really fits. 1852 01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:18,200 I mean, think of the examples Stefan set for his own children, 1853 01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:20,920 assuming he had them, trading his honor for a lordship, 1854 01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,200 throwing his lot in with Aryan of all people. 1855 01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:25,920 And especially if the Targaryens are somewhat unpopular amongst 1856 01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:27,280 some of the nobility of the Reach. 1857 01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:29,080 We don't have to take the show's word for that. 1858 01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:32,000 It's it's believable anyway. And then you got that like, 1859 01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:33,360 yeah, that doesn't that's not a good look. 1860 01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:36,280 None of this looks good for for House. 1861 01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:39,200 Floss away. It could be that this is where 1862 01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:42,560 Sir Derek came of age during this semi tumultuous time within 1863 01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:44,280 the family and it had an effect on him. 1864 01:33:44,440 --> 01:33:47,040 Or it just made him see opportunities. 1865 01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:49,680 He saw dollar signs. He saw his own opportunity for a 1866 01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:52,520 taste of glory, even though bad apples don't taste very good. 1867 01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:56,280 Well, I'm sure he could figure out a a workable metaphor there. 1868 01:33:57,240 --> 01:34:00,440 Maybe he was the first born, got exiled and lost his inheritance 1869 01:34:00,440 --> 01:34:02,480 for that reason. But he had done things with it 1870 01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:04,920 before losing it. Maybe he yeah, maybe he got rich 1871 01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:08,480 from Fossaway cider. Maybe he was made arrangements, 1872 01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,400 did deals with other people farther away. 1873 01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,440 Maybe he expanded the business and then started doing 1874 01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:17,560 villainous things with it. Given the band of of Nine 1875 01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,080 invaded Westeros not that long after Aegon the 5th's death, 1876 01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:23,240 maybe whatever villainous things he did, in fact, probably 1877 01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,160 whatever villainous things he did to be on that footing with 1878 01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:29,720 the band was during Aegon's reign, during Aegon the 5th's 1879 01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,800 reign. So it may have been while Aegon 1880 01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:35,080 had his long reign. There's this bad apples out 1881 01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:39,480 there doing things of note. And Stefan is like, sorry y'all, 1882 01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:43,360 or that's my kid. That's my boy or Raymond's like, 1883 01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:46,120 sorry y'all. I, I tried to raise him better. 1884 01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:47,640 But you know, I don't know what happens. 1885 01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:50,040 You know, the apple did fall far from the tree. 1886 01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:53,720 We don't know if any Fossaways fought on the step stones 1887 01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,320 against the band would have been a good way for them to show that 1888 01:34:57,480 --> 01:35:01,400 their loyalty. So I I would suspect yes more 1889 01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:03,040 than I would be more likely to guess yes than no. 1890 01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:04,720 Especially because the Fosseways are so numerous too. 1891 01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,800 Like what are the odds that there's no Fosseways of age able 1892 01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:10,840 to fight in that war? It seems unlikely. 1893 01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:13,360 It'd be interesting if one of them actually crossed swords 1894 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:17,280 with Sir Derek, you know? How do villains like that view 1895 01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:18,960 the notion of being seen as a kinslayer? 1896 01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:20,440 Do they care? Do they think it maybe makes 1897 01:35:20,440 --> 01:35:22,520 them even more villainous? Is it something they want as 1898 01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:24,440 Rep? Either way, after the death of 1899 01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:27,480 Melees to Sir Barristan, the band just kind of gave up on 1900 01:35:27,480 --> 01:35:29,440 Westeros. So you wonder what Sir Derek 1901 01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:32,040 would have gotten out of it. Like maybe he would have been 1902 01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:33,720 Melees Hand or something like that. 1903 01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:38,640 Because Cider Hall only seems like a kind of a small reward, 1904 01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:42,040 forgiven what the band's aims were they aimed really high. 1905 01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:44,960 Melees wanted all of Westeros. He wanted the Iron Throne. 1906 01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:49,160 So I don't think Sir Derek his his, you know, ally who would 1907 01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:52,800 have helped put Melees on the throne, would have would have 1908 01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:54,720 wanted something so small. So, yeah, maybe he handed the 1909 01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,480 king like what Illyrio wants for master of coin or something big 1910 01:35:57,480 --> 01:35:59,960 like that, something like that. He could really leverage and 1911 01:35:59,960 --> 01:36:01,480 office. He could really leverage for 1912 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:05,040 future villainy, further villainy, further gain. 1913 01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,320 I'll gotten gains. It's also possible he's older 1914 01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:11,240 than our guest because I'm I'm guessing he was born within 10 1915 01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:14,000 to 15 years after Ashford. It could have been sooner than 1916 01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:15,560 that. I'm just guessing. 1917 01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:18,280 He I, I just happened to guess. I prefer the guesses that have 1918 01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:20,840 him near Mele's his age and Mele's was probably in his early 1919 01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:23,720 20s when the band broke out. So, but it's possible Derek 1920 01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:26,840 Fossaway was like a 50 year old man, long criminal career, in 1921 01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:30,560 which case that he would have been born like a year after 1922 01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:32,960 Ashford, right? So that's entirely possible. 1923 01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:35,920 There's a pretty wide range of opportunities here or of options 1924 01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:38,200 here, and it's a but it's a pretty compelling character. 1925 01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:40,280 We heard about what the Fossa ways thought about the 1926 01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:43,360 Targaryens, right? The fossa ways would probably 1927 01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:46,720 have some words about this guy, about their own bad apple. 1928 01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:48,320 I guess this guy gives us a bad name. 1929 01:36:48,440 --> 01:36:51,080 So it's another example of a fairly interesting character 1930 01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:52,360 whose full story is yet to be written. 1931 01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:55,320 Even though he's historical but not that far back. 1932 01:36:55,480 --> 01:36:57,240 He may have survived for quite a while. 1933 01:36:57,240 --> 01:36:59,960 For all we know, this guy survived the collapse of the 1934 01:36:59,960 --> 01:37:03,880 Band of Nine and just went maybe he went farther E like Miro of 1935 01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,520 Braavos did when the Second Sons couldn't find work because of 1936 01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,200 his reputation. Well, he went and found work in 1937 01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,280 Slavers Bay. There's always somebody willing 1938 01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,920 to hire you when you go go when there's worse people out there. 1939 01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,400 So maybe Sir Derek just went east towards Slavers Bay and 1940 01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:22,200 found kind of a place where he was things were more to his 1941 01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,240 liking. But quite possibly he was just 1942 01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:27,360 killed during the collapse of the band when they stopped 1943 01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:29,880 working together. Guilty, Undertaker adds. 1944 01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:32,280 If it's clear and yellow, you got juice there, fella. 1945 01:37:32,440 --> 01:37:35,040 If it's tangy and brown, you're in Cider town. 1946 01:37:35,440 --> 01:37:39,440 Ned Flanders. That's right, Ned Flanders. 1947 01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:41,560 Very quotable, even when it comes to apples. 1948 01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,040 Now let's talk a little bit about real world apples and 1949 01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:47,480 symbolism and history here. It's pretty cool. 1950 01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:50,840 They're a symbol. They're a trope in the story in 1951 01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:53,760 the real world, and there's some cool real life fun facts about 1952 01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:55,960 them too. Now, what I told you on our 1953 01:37:55,960 --> 01:37:58,080 first appearance of a Fossaway, right? 1954 01:37:58,080 --> 01:37:59,400 We always do first mentions, right? 1955 01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:02,800 But, but, but the first actual apple, real apple, the fruit 1956 01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:08,080 itself is the first one we see. It's Littlefinger is eating an 1957 01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:09,920 apple. Of course it's the the apple 1958 01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:11,200 villain trope. He wasn't peeling it. 1959 01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:13,040 That would be a little more on the nose cause the peeling an 1960 01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:16,520 apple villain thing is just that's the most ubiquitous apple 1961 01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:18,920 symbolism on TV's and movies. Yeah. 1962 01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:22,680 So little fingers leading Ned towards the brothel and little 1963 01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:26,560 fingers just like is moving quickly and Ned is trying to 1964 01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,120 catch up. And by the time Ned catches up, 1965 01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:30,080 little fingers just leaning on a wall eating an apple. 1966 01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:32,600 And then he's like, you're so slow. 1967 01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:35,000 And then he throws the apple core into the into the river 1968 01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,560 there. So Christian, Greek, Norse, 1969 01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:40,320 Celtic, Christian, y'all know that one? 1970 01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:41,800 Most certainly Adam and Eve, right? 1971 01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:43,840 Greek. You probably know that one too. 1972 01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:46,480 It's the apple of discord, the apple of heiress that led to the 1973 01:38:46,480 --> 01:38:49,120 Trojan War, right? The apple said for the fairest, 1974 01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:52,960 a golden apple that was rolled into the party where all the 1975 01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:55,720 gods were AT. And they argued over who the 1976 01:38:55,720 --> 01:38:57,920 fairest was, like I'm the fairest Afro. 1977 01:38:57,960 --> 01:38:59,600 He said no. Athena said no, it's me. 1978 01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:01,640 Harris said, you kidding? It's me. 1979 01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:04,800 So they go to ask Paris, Paris, judge this contest for us. 1980 01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:07,800 Paris should have made me like I decline. 1981 01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:10,760 But he didn't and the Trojan were followed. 1982 01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:15,160 And Norse, the Norse world, there's the apples of Edun, and 1983 01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:17,000 this is probably the origin of the phrase. 1984 01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:18,600 An apple a day keeps the doctor away. 1985 01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:22,120 The apples of Edun. Edun was one of the goddesses, 1986 01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,240 and her apples kept them immortal. 1987 01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,440 If you eat the gods and goddesses would eat the apples 1988 01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:29,640 every day, and it would keep them young and and vital and 1989 01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:31,800 they'd live forever. Funnily enough, while I was 1990 01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:36,240 searching for lore on this, I discovered a painter who 1991 01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:39,000 depicted Edun as young and beautiful. 1992 01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:42,840 Of course she's eating the apples, but her husband, the God 1993 01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:45,040 of poetry and scalds and related things. 1994 01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:48,480 Broggy pictured is old. What is she not not giving him 1995 01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:50,520 the apples? That's not a very Good Wife. 1996 01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:52,440 She's not sharing her youthful apples. 1997 01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:54,720 She gives them to all the other Norse deities but her husband. 1998 01:39:55,320 --> 01:39:57,560 Damn you dude, that's that's rough. 1999 01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:02,560 Avalon from Celtic King Arthur legendarium. 2000 01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,280 It was the Isle of apples. Druid wands could be made of you 2001 01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:07,360 or apple. Not you. 2002 01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:09,600 As in you the tree, you, not you the person. 2003 01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:13,720 So as I alluded to earlier, apple seeds are not very 2004 01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:16,760 reliable. They will grow apples, but they 2005 01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:18,280 will. They're very random. 2006 01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:21,120 They do not. They're not like clones of the 2007 01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:24,160 tree they come from. It's just huge varieties of 2008 01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:27,480 apples come from the seeds of apples. 2009 01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:31,320 So Johnny Appleseed, I made a joke that Johnny Appleseed was 2010 01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:33,560 doing it wrong, but he wasn't really doing it wrong. 2011 01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:37,200 The there's a huge benefit to just throwing apple seeds 2012 01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:39,680 everywhere now. It's, it's, it's, it's an 2013 01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:42,000 establishing thing that you're doing here. 2014 01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,360 You're spreading all these apple seeds everywhere. 2015 01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:49,240 Some of those apples seeds are going to make trees that will 2016 01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:54,880 actually work well in that place because variety of climates, 2017 01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,520 weather, humidity, all that other stuff, soil quality. 2018 01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:03,720 Given the huge random outcome of apple seeds, some of them are 2019 01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:05,160 going to actually work out really well. 2020 01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:06,880 Some of them are going to produce crappy apples. 2021 01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:09,160 Some of them won't even grow. Those are forgettable. 2022 01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:13,760 But the few that work out really well, you take the root stocks 2023 01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:16,480 and you use those to produce clones. 2024 01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:20,080 So you can find once you get the best apple, you can then start 2025 01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:22,640 cloning them properly. But until you get the really 2026 01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:25,200 good apple, you just keep planting seeds. 2027 01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:28,240 But once you get the good apples, the one you want, you 2028 01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,240 stop using seeds because those are very random. 2029 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:33,240 But the randomness can be a benefit when you're getting 2030 01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:36,080 started. See, so Johnny Appleseed didn't 2031 01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:37,680 create great quantities of apples. 2032 01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:42,640 He created great variety of apples, which locals from a 2033 01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,960 variety of regions could then select the best ones and make 2034 01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:50,160 them permanent. So he gets credit, but it's the 2035 01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:52,960 story has a lot more nuance to it and and you think this isn't 2036 01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:55,800 a this isn't a legend. No, there really was a Johnny 2037 01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:57,120 Appleseed. This is a real person. 2038 01:41:57,240 --> 01:41:59,720 John Chapman. Yeah, John Chapman, he was a 2039 01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:01,240 religious dude, so. Yeah. 2040 01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:05,400 And he was certainly seems like one of those very good people 2041 01:42:05,400 --> 01:42:08,920 that was just trying to spread food everywhere. 2042 01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:12,920 Like, apples are great, right? So good job, Johnny Appleseed. 2043 01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:16,280 Good job, John Chapman, Real person, did good work. 2044 01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:17,280 But. Yeah. 2045 01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:18,800 But the story isn't quite what we're told. 2046 01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:23,880 So in China, the Johnny Appleseed of China wasn't a 2047 01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:27,120 single individual, it was the species of brown bears. 2048 01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:35,440 Brown bears are uniquely well suited for spreading apples or 2049 01:42:35,440 --> 01:42:37,600 apple trees. And it is part of what you 2050 01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:38,920 think. Yeah, they eat the apples and 2051 01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,840 they poop the seeds out and the seeds grow. 2052 01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:46,000 But it's better than that. The the few animals can digest 2053 01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:50,840 seeds, but something about bears digestive systems sets the seeds 2054 01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:53,120 up to germinate properly. Like if you just drop there. 2055 01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:55,160 They don't necessarily work because apples require cross 2056 01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:57,480 pollination and all those other stuff that isn't worth 2057 01:42:57,480 --> 01:42:59,160 explaining. The biology isn't quite 2058 01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:03,800 straightforward, but the bottom line is brown bears love apples 2059 01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:06,760 and they eat the crap out of them and then they crap them out 2060 01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:10,160 and spread them all over Asia. And that was probably where 2061 01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:13,160 apples began. Apple trees began in Asia maybe 2062 01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:16,360 just like millions of years ago, possibly until humans started 2063 01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:20,840 working with them maybe 12,000 years ago and like replanting 2064 01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:24,440 and making orchards, all that. In modern times, there's like 2065 01:43:24,440 --> 01:43:28,800 7500 cultivars, which I think is the basically the same thing as 2066 01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:30,720 species. But you know, scientific terms 2067 01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,560 vary when they're, there's nuance as to what type of life 2068 01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:36,160 form they're describing. So cultivars apparently is the 2069 01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:38,120 right term. That's how many apples there are 2070 01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:39,320 in the world. Species of apples. 2071 01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:41,120 It's crazy, right? And there's, there's ones that 2072 01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:44,640 are grown in winter, there's ones that are grown in high 2073 01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:46,680 climates. It's a very, very diverse, 2074 01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:51,200 adaptable fruit, which is why it is so ubiquitous in symbolism, 2075 01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:58,680 because it's the part of so many cultures formed a grew alongside 2076 01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:03,520 or because of certain crops that enabled them to get going. 2077 01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,040 Without this certain foodstuffs, they would never have been able 2078 01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:09,200 to become a whole civilization or a city or a town or whatever. 2079 01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:13,200 And apples are a part of so many of these stories because they 2080 01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:16,840 are so big and widespread in so many places around the world. 2081 01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:22,280 Some really funny anecdotes that have added to the spread of 2082 01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:24,360 apples. And as I said, it's probably 2083 01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:28,000 about 10,000 BC that humans started spreading apples around. 2084 01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:32,920 They got to Egypt around 1800 BC and they never were huge in 2085 01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:36,400 Egypt but they because Egypt obviously is much older than 2086 01:44:36,400 --> 01:44:38,600 that. But they apple trees in Egypt. 2087 01:44:38,600 --> 01:44:43,120 Even Alexander the Great sent some apple specimens back from 2088 01:44:43,120 --> 01:44:47,000 Persia to Aristotle. Just here Aristotle take these 2089 01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:49,280 apples and plant them at your Lyceum. 2090 01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:54,560 Julius Caesar, 270 ish years later, wrote the first recorded 2091 01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:58,320 reference to apples native. He observed native Kelts 2092 01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:02,040 fermenting crab apples. Yeah, you can make cider out of 2093 01:45:02,040 --> 01:45:03,720 bad apples. Like the apples you wouldn't 2094 01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:06,880 want to eat can still make cider out of or Jelly or compote or 2095 01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,960 whatever. By the time Caesar's army was 2096 01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:12,240 headed back to Rome, his men were making and drinking that 2097 01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:14,320 cider. They were like, that's a good 2098 01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:17,640 idea, That's a tradition, That's a technique we're going to 2099 01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:19,160 immediately bring back to Rome with us. 2100 01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:23,000 Of course, Caesar also brought the end of the Republic back 2101 01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:25,040 with him. So but but they at least they 2102 01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:28,280 had some nice beverage to celebrate the the giant 2103 01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:30,480 political transition that occurred around that time. 2104 01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:35,920 The term cider originated around the 9th century AD English monks 2105 01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:39,480 and Irish monks were big in propagating it, experimenting 2106 01:45:39,480 --> 01:45:41,440 with it, coming up with different ways to make it, 2107 01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,040 trying out different apples, trying out different brewing 2108 01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:45,960 techniques and that's it. It. 2109 01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:48,800 It may have had a precursor in Greek Roman times called Secara, 2110 01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:50,880 which you can kind of hear, you can kind of hear the word cider 2111 01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:54,320 in that, like you could sort of see the origin there. 2112 01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:57,040 Per capita, the UK drinks the most cider. 2113 01:45:57,040 --> 01:46:00,080 No one's surprised about that and has the biggest cider 2114 01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:03,000 producing companies too. But it's also very big in the US 2115 01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:06,120 and as I said, you know, Ireland and the UK LinkedIn that regard 2116 01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,560 the UK, Commonwealth nations like Australia and other places 2117 01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:13,080 drink quite a lot of cider too. There's a there's so many ways 2118 01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:15,120 to make it now. Not all these things are old 2119 01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:19,960 school, but nowadays, other fruits, tannins, sugar, honey, 2120 01:46:19,960 --> 01:46:23,320 hops, cinnamon, ginger, rose petals, hibiscus. 2121 01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:26,840 Aging it, not aging it now, modern times, carbonation, not 2122 01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:28,760 carbonation. Winters come. 2123 01:46:29,080 --> 01:46:32,400 Frozen apples are a thing to make cider. 2124 01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:35,120 You actually have apples that are intentionally frozen and 2125 01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:37,080 then pressed to make cider. That's the thing. 2126 01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,920 Yeah. Cold, cold brew coffee. 2127 01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:42,840 Cold brew cider. Yeah, and not a lot of the 2128 01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:46,600 similar techniques used to make wine were tried on cider and 2129 01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:49,280 vice versa. Certain certain ingredients that 2130 01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:51,680 were put in wine or also put in ciders, hey, that worked in 2131 01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:53,320 wine. Why not try and vice versa? 2132 01:46:53,320 --> 01:46:55,480 This worked in cider. How does it taste in wine? 2133 01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:58,680 So a lot of overlap there. What's crazy about this is 2134 01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:01,840 there's techniques that people are still using that were 2135 01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:05,720 developed in ancient times, yet they're also still making new 2136 01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:07,760 techniques. It's it's really neat the the 2137 01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:11,280 combination of really long held tradition things that just it 2138 01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:14,880 ain't broke, don't fix it to a combination of hey, there's so 2139 01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:16,800 many new things we could try and some of these are going to work 2140 01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:19,760 out really well. Earlier we had the example of 2141 01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:23,000 the personally strong cider in the cool and tankard at Old 2142 01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:24,640 Town. Couple other examples. 2143 01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:28,920 Brienne has cider at the end of the kneeling man, but when Arya 2144 01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:31,040 gets to the end of the kneeling man, they're out. 2145 01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:34,800 All the cider's gone. Too bad Brienne and Podrick also 2146 01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:38,600 have cider at the quiet aisle and that's where they call it 2147 01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:40,240 Far Fame. They have really good cider 2148 01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:41,720 there apparently, so good for them. 2149 01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:44,640 They have cider. They have cider Castle Black. 2150 01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:47,480 Usually they warm it up, chill the bones away. 2151 01:47:47,480 --> 01:47:49,240 Well, not usually, but often taught cider. 2152 01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:51,080 They even have cider beyond the wall. 2153 01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:52,760 There's apple trees beyond the wall. 2154 01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:55,200 Goes to show, you know, apples grow in such a wide variety of 2155 01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:56,480 places. That's a great example of it. 2156 01:47:56,480 --> 01:47:59,600 That's not unrealistic at all. It's actually Varamir who 2157 01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:01,400 mentions it. It's one of the things he would 2158 01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:03,280 get tribute. He had all these villages that 2159 01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:07,520 gave him food and women and cider periodically or food and 2160 01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:09,680 fodder and cider and he would just take the women whenever. 2161 01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:11,320 But either way, they were giving him cider. 2162 01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:14,400 Bringing all this back around to House Fossaway, it's not hard to 2163 01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:16,760 see how the green apple Fossaways could have overtaken 2164 01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:19,360 the Reds and wealth given all these varieties and this 2165 01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:20,440 innovation stuff we talked about. 2166 01:48:20,440 --> 01:48:26,480 Maybe the greens just had some real talent in innovation and or 2167 01:48:26,480 --> 01:48:27,560 not, maybe I'm just making all this up. 2168 01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:30,160 It's just an idea. But the point is, brewing better 2169 01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:33,040 cider gets you better customers, more customers. 2170 01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:36,080 And it's different than the usual ways that noble houses 2171 01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:37,880 overtake each other and procedure and prominence. 2172 01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:41,040 It's usually to do with violence or politics or both. 2173 01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:44,920 This is mercantile operations, which is as, as we've said a few 2174 01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:48,120 times here, is usually not how these noble houses compete with 2175 01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:50,560 each other. Maybe Raymond even had the 2176 01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:52,040 talent. Maybe Raymond himself is the one 2177 01:48:52,040 --> 01:48:54,680 that is good at it because he was not a highborn. 2178 01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:57,560 Well, he's highborn. He wasn't high up in the 2179 01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:00,240 rankings of the fossil ways. So you got to think that's a 2180 01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:02,280 lot. That's what a lot of lower 2181 01:49:02,280 --> 01:49:05,720 ranking fossil ways do is they take jobs in the family 2182 01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:08,720 business, right? Like so maybe Raymond actually 2183 01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,360 had a lot of boots on the ground type skills that someone like 2184 01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:15,360 Stefan as the heir to the house would not have ever learned 2185 01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:16,960 because that would be a job for some more. 2186 01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:18,920 It's beneath him, but it wouldn't necessarily be beneath 2187 01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:21,240 Raymond. These are also advantages to 2188 01:49:21,240 --> 01:49:23,800 starting fresh with a new house. A cider hall has its thing. 2189 01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:27,800 It's been doing its thing for so long, starting a new house, not 2190 01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:30,240 only do you have an opportunity to, to come up with some fresh 2191 01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:33,240 ideas, but you're not, you don't have these entrenched business 2192 01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:36,120 arrangements that are really, really old and, and old in, in a 2193 01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:38,680 sense that is kind of unfathomable to us on earth 2194 01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:42,160 because we don't, we don't have nations this old or even close 2195 01:49:42,160 --> 01:49:45,040 to it that, that are, you know, still relatively similar to how 2196 01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:48,480 they started. What I mean by that is the Cider 2197 01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:52,520 Hall Fossaways, they've been dealing with the same families, 2198 01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:55,120 same merchants, same organization for so long. 2199 01:49:55,120 --> 01:49:59,160 And that's when corruption and old boy network stuff types 2200 01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:02,760 starts to set in. A fresh start with a fresh house 2201 01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:05,800 and making new business deals, new arrangements with new people 2202 01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:08,040 and positions. They aren't entrenched, they 2203 01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:10,480 haven't gotten used to, they haven't gotten fat, lazy and 2204 01:50:10,480 --> 01:50:12,920 corrupt or whatever euphemisms you want to apply to it. 2205 01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:14,600 I'm speaking metaphorically, of course. 2206 01:50:15,480 --> 01:50:17,400 With a new start, you may have less corruption. 2207 01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:19,440 That's the shorter version of this. 2208 01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:21,440 So that's another reason why the green apple fossil waste could 2209 01:50:21,440 --> 01:50:24,960 have gotten ahead, because they're not all deeply into 2210 01:50:25,440 --> 01:50:27,640 this, into a industry that's grown corrupt. 2211 01:50:28,840 --> 01:50:31,920 All right, our final section is the apples of A Song of Ice and 2212 01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:33,800 Fire. Having a double branch allows 2213 01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:36,800 them to represent the entangled nature of noble marriages, 2214 01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:38,320 right? That's already such a thing in 2215 01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:40,640 the noble houses of Westeros that they've all married into 2216 01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:44,080 each other so many times. It's even harder to parse here 2217 01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:45,720 with the fossil age, which is part of the point. 2218 01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:48,480 And I think it's part of why George has them still so tied 2219 01:50:48,480 --> 01:50:51,640 together because it it really speaks to that. 2220 01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:55,400 Now, here's a famous example that most of us didn't catch the 2221 01:50:55,440 --> 01:50:56,960 meaning that it included a Fossaway. 2222 01:50:56,960 --> 01:50:59,400 I know you caught the main thrust of this point, which is 2223 01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:02,800 that when Melisandre shadow baby assassinates Sir Courtney 2224 01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:07,280 Penrose with Davos's help at Storm's End, it's done in part 2225 01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:11,000 because Stannis knows who is going to take Sir Courtney 2226 01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:14,200 Penrose's place. He knows that replacement will 2227 01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:16,280 yield the castle as he says here quote. 2228 01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:21,120 Sir Courtney's Lieutenant is cousin to the Fossaways, Lord 2229 01:51:21,120 --> 01:51:26,560 Meadows a green boy of 20. Should some I'll chants strike 2230 01:51:26,560 --> 01:51:30,680 down Penrose, command of Storm's End would pass to this 2231 01:51:30,680 --> 01:51:34,440 stripling, and his cousins believe he would accept my terms 2232 01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:37,760 and yield up the castle. Stannis wasn't truly sold on 2233 01:51:37,760 --> 01:51:39,320 Melisandre till he could see what she could do. 2234 01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:41,720 He saw OK well that's real sorcery. 2235 01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:44,760 Now, we all know Melisandre picked up on that and 2236 01:51:44,760 --> 01:51:48,120 exaggerated her abilities, which is probably something she was 2237 01:51:48,120 --> 01:51:50,600 doing long before Stannis anyway, but she certainly saw 2238 01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:52,680 him as a target for that sort of manipulation. 2239 01:51:53,240 --> 01:51:57,200 And you wonder how a lot of these other Lords understand us, 2240 01:51:57,360 --> 01:51:58,760 perceive Melisandre in that regard. 2241 01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:01,880 Like, they're all very suspicious of Sir Courtney's 2242 01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:04,160 death too. I'm sure it wasn't just people 2243 01:52:04,160 --> 01:52:07,840 like Tyrion or Varus or whether he was like, that doesn't make 2244 01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:09,320 sense. That dude was staunch. 2245 01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:12,040 He was yelling at them and threatening to fight them, 2246 01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:13,920 willing to duel them, and then he just jumps. 2247 01:52:14,440 --> 01:52:18,800 Doesn't make sense, does it? So that reflects on Melisandre. 2248 01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:21,480 So I kind of wonder what are the foster ways and these other 2249 01:52:21,480 --> 01:52:23,600 houses that are that were behind. 2250 01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:25,480 What do they think of Melisandre? 2251 01:52:25,720 --> 01:52:28,880 Yeah, they these are their trajectory. 2252 01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:33,520 Not the most noble as also as Sir Courtney called them out for 2253 01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:36,160 before his murder. He's like you guys fought first 2254 01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:42,400 Renly and now for Stannis and you change cloaks as often as I 2255 01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:45,800 change my boots or whatever. And then they lost on the 2256 01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:50,360 Blackwater and Bentoni to Joffrey, so they now he's dead. 2257 01:52:50,360 --> 01:52:53,880 So now the all these Lords and Knights focus on the Fosse ways. 2258 01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:56,760 So the Fosse ways are now Bentoni to Tommen. 2259 01:52:56,760 --> 01:53:00,200 So Renly, then Stannis, then Joffrey, now Tommen. 2260 01:53:00,200 --> 01:53:03,320 Yeah, that's counting Robert. That's 5 kings, as many as the 2261 01:53:03,320 --> 01:53:07,360 war of the same name. Now they have had the same Liege 2262 01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:09,480 Lord throughout all that, five different kings, but Mace 2263 01:53:09,480 --> 01:53:11,440 Tyrell's been the Liege Lord for all of it. 2264 01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:15,160 Although I wouldn't necessarily bet on Mace holding it for the 2265 01:53:15,160 --> 01:53:18,200 rest of the story. I think maybe he's going to exit 2266 01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:20,760 stage left. On the other side of that coin 2267 01:53:21,480 --> 01:53:24,720 is a very difficult character moment that's devoid of politics 2268 01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:27,360 or the supernatural. It does take place at a very 2269 01:53:27,360 --> 01:53:29,360 political wedding. It's the Purple Wedding. 2270 01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:33,560 But this moment is very human. It's about Tyrion, and it's 2271 01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:38,000 about what he can never be. And there was one woman sitting 2272 01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:41,280 almost at the foot of the third table on the left. 2273 01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:45,080 The wife of one of the fossaways, he thought, and heavy 2274 01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:48,520 with his child. Her delicate beauty was in no 2275 01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:52,920 way diminished by her belly, nor was her pleasure in the food and 2276 01:53:52,920 --> 01:53:56,120 frolics. Tyrion watched as her husband 2277 01:53:56,120 --> 01:54:01,000 fed her morsels off his plate. They drank from the same cup and 2278 01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:03,560 would kiss often and unpredictably. 2279 01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:07,640 Whenever they did, his hand would gently rest upon her 2280 01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:10,640 stomach, a tender and protective gesture. 2281 01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:14,760 He wondered what Sansa would do if he leaned over and kissed her 2282 01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:19,040 right now. Flinch away, most likely, or be 2283 01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:22,160 brave and suffer through it, as was her duty. 2284 01:54:22,440 --> 01:54:25,800 She is nothing if not dutiful, this wife of mine. 2285 01:54:26,760 --> 01:54:30,120 So this is a lot he yearns for and believes he's undeserving of 2286 01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:32,760 or even capable of. Now remember this is not that 2287 01:54:32,760 --> 01:54:35,600 long before Jamie reveals the truth of Taisha. 2288 01:54:35,600 --> 01:54:39,880 So he's currently still thinking the Taisha thing was a ruse. 2289 01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:43,840 So he has in his experience, his perception of his experience is 2290 01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:45,160 that he's never experienced true love. 2291 01:54:45,440 --> 01:54:48,040 Actually, he had his family lied to him about it. 2292 01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:50,360 So there's a lot of cynicism here in this moment as well, but 2293 01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:52,040 it's still like really hits hard. 2294 01:54:52,040 --> 01:54:55,000 I think the Purple Wedding is a really powerful scene for a lot 2295 01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:57,320 of reasons. This maybe is a moment that gets 2296 01:54:57,400 --> 01:54:59,840 overlooked a little bit given there's so much going on. 2297 01:54:59,840 --> 01:55:02,800 I've pointed out during Valoritis, it's also one of the 2298 01:55:02,800 --> 01:55:04,960 longest chapters in all of the Song of Ice and Fire. 2299 01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:10,520 So it's a big part of who Tyrion is and and part of what's moving 2300 01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:13,720 him towards the thing he does. Killing his own father here 2301 01:55:13,960 --> 01:55:17,200 because of treatment like this, because of who he is and because 2302 01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:22,160 of how his own family has made this worse for him rather than 2303 01:55:22,160 --> 01:55:24,560 made it better for him, rather than rather than like uplift him 2304 01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:29,440 and, you know, speak to his abilities rather than point out 2305 01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:32,360 his flaws. Especially Tywin does this a 2306 01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:35,200 lot. Jamie to was pretty good about 2307 01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:39,000 this, but of course was forced into this lied by his father as 2308 01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:42,560 well. And it's just not a place that 2309 01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:44,880 the Tyrion feels like a he belongs, a world he doesn't 2310 01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:46,960 think he belongs in. Love is just not a thing for 2311 01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:48,400 him. It's pretty damn sad. 2312 01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:50,920 Even these thoughts on Tyrion aside. 2313 01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:55,080 I mean, I don't think anyone deserves that, but there's some 2314 01:55:55,080 --> 01:55:58,680 parallels here too, right? Raymond and Rowan in the show. 2315 01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:03,760 It's not just because that Dunk is uncomfortable about the 2316 01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:07,240 implication of of Rowan potentially misleading Raymond 2317 01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:10,080 about a baby. It's just Dunk is uncomfortable 2318 01:56:10,080 --> 01:56:12,600 with that whole thing. It's not the baby thing only 2319 01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:16,000 that didn't help. Dunk is uncomfortable with the 2320 01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:19,920 idea of relationships. He has no idea what a 2321 01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:21,760 relationship would be like. Look how he was with Tanzel. 2322 01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:25,440 He had no idea what to do. He had that endearing but 2323 01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:31,080 notably naive and shy approach. He just didn't know what to do. 2324 01:56:31,080 --> 01:56:32,200 He didn't know how to talk to her. 2325 01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:33,600 He's like, I got nothing, you know? 2326 01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:35,600 He's he has no idea what he's doing. 2327 01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:37,320 So make the whole thing makes him uncomfortable. 2328 01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:41,080 He sees these two, Raymond and Rowan, just ease into it. 2329 01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:45,600 So naturally, like love came to them so naturally, perfectly 2330 01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:47,400 just it happened and they went with it. 2331 01:56:47,400 --> 01:56:49,360 Like Duncan's like, am I ever going to have that? 2332 01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:51,920 I don't know. His life is going to be on the 2333 01:56:51,920 --> 01:56:53,560 road. Sir Arlen never had a love. 2334 01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:57,040 Sir Arlen didn't have a wife. He doesn't see that for him. 2335 01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:58,960 So the idea makes him uncomfortable because it's not 2336 01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:01,360 his future. So it's different from Tyrion 2337 01:57:01,360 --> 01:57:03,280 because, you know, he's not like ugly. 2338 01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:06,040 In fact, he's quite handsome. So the reasons are different. 2339 01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:09,320 But it's, it's still a world he doesn't feel a part of. 2340 01:57:09,680 --> 01:57:12,840 And I think that's neat. It's a parallel moment. 2341 01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:14,360 And there's Fossaways involved in both. 2342 01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:17,840 And the Fossaways are unusually well suited for this as an 2343 01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:21,240 example of an idyllic lifestyle because of what we've been 2344 01:57:21,240 --> 01:57:24,600 saying about how their castles positioning their income. 2345 01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:27,840 They're unusually well, unusually well set up to avoid 2346 01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:29,720 some of the worst things that happened in Westeros. 2347 01:57:30,360 --> 01:57:33,480 If I didn't make the point before, I think I did, but I'll 2348 01:57:33,480 --> 01:57:35,680 repeat it if I didn't. If you're a peasant born in 2349 01:57:35,680 --> 01:57:40,000 Westeros, being born at Cider Hall or in New Barrel, probably 2350 01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:42,320 one of the best places to be, right? 2351 01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:44,400 Like, not that likely to have war. 2352 01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:48,440 Food's plenty, weather's great. Your Lords aren't particularly 2353 01:57:48,440 --> 01:57:51,640 known for going to war. They're known for kind of going 2354 01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:53,720 along with it, but they're not the ones who start it. 2355 01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:56,760 So at least not as far as we know. 2356 01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:58,800 So it seems like, yeah, there's a lot going on there. 2357 01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:02,200 A lot of the the fossa ways are an example of things that we 2358 01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:04,960 might not have clocked before. They're they're maybe perfect 2359 01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:07,360 example of the most idyllic people to be. 2360 01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:09,200 And that's what makes it so perfect for that Tyrion scene. 2361 01:58:09,200 --> 01:58:12,360 And even Tyrion doesn't necessarily realize just how 2362 01:58:12,360 --> 01:58:16,920 privileged that couple is and just how that moment is fueled 2363 01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:20,360 by their upbringing and just how they they have experienced so 2364 01:58:20,360 --> 01:58:23,760 little setbacks, so little adversity in their lives that 2365 01:58:24,040 --> 01:58:26,240 they just don't have cares. They don't have stress. 2366 01:58:26,240 --> 01:58:29,320 Like, you know, they're just like everything is cool and 2367 01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:32,920 everything the rest of their lives is rosy. 2368 01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:36,440 The outlook is great, right? Lady Leonette, a good example 2369 01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:37,240 here. Too late. 2370 01:58:37,240 --> 01:58:40,560 Leonette Fossaway, she's wife of Sir Garland, the gallant Tyrell, 2371 01:58:40,560 --> 01:58:43,240 one of the most likeable Tyrells, maybe the most likeable 2372 01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:46,520 Tyrell in terms of not the most entertaining, that's probably 2373 01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:48,760 Elena. But just in terms of this guy is 2374 01:58:48,760 --> 01:58:50,640 actually pretty upstanding seemingly. 2375 01:58:50,960 --> 01:58:53,720 Now, he was also at the Purple Wedding, of course, Tyrion 2376 01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:56,600 speaks a lot with Lady Leonette Fossilway and Garland Tyrell. 2377 01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:58,800 He's sitting next to them. So that scene where he observes 2378 01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:02,640 another Fossilway and the tender protective, all the love and 2379 01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:04,760 romance and all that, he's sitting next to another 2380 01:59:04,760 --> 01:59:07,600 Fossilway when that's happening. And Leonette Fossilway seems 2381 01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:09,880 pretty cool too. She laughs at his jokes. 2382 01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:13,040 She makes some jokes with him. She's like, man, that was a good 2383 01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:14,680 line. You just, you're a better singer 2384 01:59:14,680 --> 01:59:18,040 than this guy. And Garland's like no my lady, 2385 01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:21,520 he was made to do great deeds and Tyrion is like honestly off 2386 01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:25,080 put in a good way by how nice they're being and how praising 2387 01:59:25,080 --> 01:59:27,440 his disease is not used to it. People are usually a Dick to him 2388 01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:30,160 right? And not just Garland, but Lady 2389 01:59:30,160 --> 01:59:31,480 Leonette is being really nice to him. 2390 01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:33,920 It makes you wonder if there's an ulterior motive. 2391 01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:37,400 And the ulterior motive is lulling him in his into a false 2392 01:59:37,400 --> 01:59:39,880 sense of security, like making him not pay attention so they 2393 01:59:39,880 --> 01:59:41,880 can pull off this poisoning and blame him on it. 2394 01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:45,080 However, I still don't really think Garland was in on it. 2395 01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:47,480 I don't see why they would need to have him in out. 2396 01:59:47,480 --> 01:59:49,280 Olenna doesn't need his participation. 2397 01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:52,440 Why include more people in the conspiracy if you don't need to? 2398 01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:54,840 I think Marjorie probably needed to know 'cause she needed to 2399 01:59:54,840 --> 01:59:57,560 avoid drinking from that cup, but Garland wasn't gonna drink 2400 01:59:57,560 --> 01:59:58,880 out of it. Lee and Yat wasn't gonna drink 2401 01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:00,080 out of it. They weren't going to be the 2402 02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:01,400 ones to place the poison in the cup. 2403 02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:04,400 They didn't need to know. Don't add people to a conspiracy 2404 02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,320 if you don't need to know them. Lady Oletta is probably smart 2405 02:00:06,320 --> 02:00:08,040 enough to know that. Why would she need to tell? 2406 02:00:08,440 --> 02:00:11,680 Maybe she'll tell later, but she didn't need to tell then, I 2407 02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:14,080 mean. If Garland the gallant is really 2408 02:00:14,080 --> 02:00:16,840 such a noble, upstanding dude, she's not going to tell him 2409 02:00:16,840 --> 02:00:20,320 that. Let him let him believe the best 2410 02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,720 about their family. She can do The Dirty underhanded 2411 02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:25,280 work and keep it to herself right. 2412 02:00:25,680 --> 02:00:30,520 So it may have been well known, but the the alternative view 2413 02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:33,360 here is that they did know they were very much in on it. 2414 02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:36,240 Absolutely possible. I'm my whole they didn't have to 2415 02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:38,200 know thing. You can only take that so far. 2416 02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:41,520 That's not hard proof. It's just a solid thought, you 2417 02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:45,880 know, logical. I think Nina suggests that very 2418 02:00:45,880 --> 02:00:48,080 possibly this was exactly the plan. 2419 02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:50,640 Keeping Tyrion occupied, complimenting him, one of the 2420 02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:54,000 best ways to throw him off his game because he's just so unused 2421 02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:56,360 to that. And he would actually, it would 2422 02:00:56,360 --> 02:00:58,080 actually work on him. He's starving for it. 2423 02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:00,800 Did. He was very happy. 2424 02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:03,200 He was oddly pleased by their compliments. 2425 02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:06,840 And, yeah, they knew the right things to say, so maybe that was 2426 02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:09,400 arranged. Anyway, she first arrived at 2427 02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:11,800 court with Marjorie so well before the Purple Wedding. 2428 02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:14,080 She came in the Clash of Kings, and Sansa took note of her. 2429 02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:18,520 And then she was cool to Sansa. And this is part of why we might 2430 02:01:18,520 --> 02:01:22,200 be a little extra suspicion was that she tried to comfort Sansa 2431 02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:25,680 knowing when she was about to marry Terry. 2432 02:01:25,680 --> 02:01:27,120 She's like, yeah, sorry about that. 2433 02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:29,480 A sis, you know, you got to marry that guy. 2434 02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:31,440 I know that's not great, but make the most of it. 2435 02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:33,800 And she taught Sansa the high harp. 2436 02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:36,800 A little tidbit there, Sansa. And Lady Leonette working on the 2437 02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:38,440 high harp together, very lovely instrument. 2438 02:01:39,080 --> 02:01:43,320 Now, remember, Garland Tyrell was given bright water. 2439 02:01:43,320 --> 02:01:45,840 Keep the castle to Florence. That's a big one. 2440 02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:49,040 But of course, there's still Florence there, so he can't just 2441 02:01:49,120 --> 02:01:52,200 walk in and take it. So he was besieging it with 2442 02:01:52,200 --> 02:01:56,680 Tyrell army, with a Tyrell army. But that was interrupted, right, 2443 02:01:56,680 --> 02:01:58,120 because the Ironborn took the shield Island. 2444 02:01:58,120 --> 02:02:01,160 So Garland's like, all right, pause this. 2445 02:02:01,240 --> 02:02:05,320 We'll keep the siege intact, but a smaller amount of men and then 2446 02:02:05,320 --> 02:02:06,880 go off and try to deal with the iron board. 2447 02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:11,920 So Lady Leonette may actually never be the Lady of Brightwater 2448 02:02:11,920 --> 02:02:16,080 Keep in in reality, she may have the title, but and not because 2449 02:02:16,080 --> 02:02:18,280 Garland's claim is going to be lost necessarily, but because he 2450 02:02:18,280 --> 02:02:22,320 might be, he might die. And he is a great fighter and we 2451 02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:23,800 haven't seen him actually fight yet. 2452 02:02:23,800 --> 02:02:26,760 But I'm not sure that's in the cards for us, you know, like 2453 02:02:26,760 --> 02:02:28,400 what POV would we see him through? 2454 02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:30,040 You know, no one's at Brightwater Keep that's got 2455 02:02:30,040 --> 02:02:33,400 Apov, nor is anyone at the Shield Islands have a POV. 2456 02:02:33,400 --> 02:02:35,880 So I feel like whatever happens with Garland we'll hear about 2457 02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:39,920 off page and we'll be able to kind of deduce what happens with 2458 02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,720 lady Lady Leonette through that. I kind of hope they have a nice 2459 02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:44,680 ending. Lady Leonette seems OK even 2460 02:02:44,960 --> 02:02:47,000 unless he was really in on this whole poisoning thing. 2461 02:02:48,080 --> 02:02:50,040 Is it possible Garland was in on it and not her? 2462 02:02:50,040 --> 02:02:52,120 That seems unlikely because you can't really trust A. 2463 02:02:52,120 --> 02:02:54,640 You wouldn't really be able to trust a lot of husbands and not 2464 02:02:54,640 --> 02:02:57,000 tell their wives, right? So just either include both or 2465 02:02:57,000 --> 02:03:00,960 neither. Green Sir John Fosseway, he's 2466 02:03:00,960 --> 02:03:03,240 the first mentioned Fosseway in A Song of Ice and Fire. 2467 02:03:03,240 --> 02:03:06,120 He's probably the Knight of New Barrel, AKA the Green. 2468 02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:10,520 He's married to Janet Tyrell. That's Mace's sister. 2469 02:03:10,520 --> 02:03:13,000 So another just deep connection here. 2470 02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:15,440 Everybody's entwined. Good marriage for him, probably 2471 02:03:15,440 --> 02:03:18,160 a good marriage for her too, given what we've been saying 2472 02:03:18,160 --> 02:03:22,440 about the the incomes and solid living situation that the 2473 02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:27,760 Fosseways seem to have. And not every lady gets to marry 2474 02:03:28,320 --> 02:03:32,280 the Lord or the in this case the the knightly title holder. 2475 02:03:32,320 --> 02:03:36,440 So most, even Tyrells and highborn ladies like that don't 2476 02:03:36,440 --> 02:03:39,120 get to marry into someone who owns the castle. 2477 02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:43,200 So for both of them good marriage and it's pretty 2478 02:03:43,200 --> 02:03:45,240 typical. Other than that though you know 2479 02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:50,760 Tyrells leads Lord marrying one of the more important vassals. 2480 02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:54,200 Obviously there's tons of Starks that have married Manderlees and 2481 02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:57,560 Bolton, well, not Bolton's, that's a notable exception, but 2482 02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:00,960 pretty much every other Northern house Umbers, especially 2483 02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:03,440 Dustin's, all that. Looking to the other regions, 2484 02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:06,280 you see some of the same. It's also possible that 2485 02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:10,200 Highgarden wanted to rebuild the bridges between the Fossaways. 2486 02:04:10,200 --> 02:04:13,200 Maybe the Fossaways had problems after the split. 2487 02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:16,680 Maybe after Stefan and Raymond there was a period of unease, if 2488 02:04:16,680 --> 02:04:19,560 not worse, between the two houses and Highgarden, as their 2489 02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,000 Liege Lords would seek to end that disputing. 2490 02:04:23,880 --> 02:04:25,040 Maybe try to bring them back together. 2491 02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:26,640 And you can't bring them back together through marriage. 2492 02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:29,840 That's too, it's too incestuous. But you could do it this way. 2493 02:04:30,080 --> 02:04:32,560 Both of them marry Tyrell. A green apple Fossaway marries a 2494 02:04:32,560 --> 02:04:36,680 Tyrell, so does a red apple Fossaway or some other close 2495 02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:40,000 connection like that. You have them hang out a bit, 2496 02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:43,240 you know, make sure you talk to them firmly about everybody 2497 02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:45,120 getting along and all that stuff, and eventually maybe it 2498 02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:47,440 works out. John Fossaway begged Renly for 2499 02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:50,480 the honor of commanding the Vanguard against Stannis. 2500 02:04:50,480 --> 02:04:54,360 So not actually that brave of a thing to ask because this was 2501 02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:56,920 like a massive disparity in soldiers. 2502 02:04:57,120 --> 02:05:00,240 Guyard the green said, beg all you want, it belongs to blah, 2503 02:05:00,240 --> 02:05:03,480 blah, blah, blah. Guyard the Green versus John 2504 02:05:03,480 --> 02:05:06,280 Green Fossaway. Yeah, this is green versus green 2505 02:05:06,280 --> 02:05:08,640 there. Let's move on to a little bit 2506 02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:10,800 about what we know about the current Reds, the red apple. 2507 02:05:10,800 --> 02:05:13,720 Fossaway that starts off with another example of humor. 2508 02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:17,800 Here is a quote. Sir Tanton of the Red Apple 2509 02:05:17,800 --> 02:05:23,080 Phosphways climbed on the table and swore to slay Sandor Clegane 2510 02:05:23,080 --> 02:05:26,640 in single combat. The vow might have been taken 2511 02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:31,800 more solemnly if Sir Tanton had not had one foot in a gravy boat 2512 02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:34,800 when he made it. I don't think the vow would have 2513 02:05:34,800 --> 02:05:39,520 been taken more solemnly in any case, but it would have been 2514 02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:41,880 less funny. Yeah. 2515 02:05:41,880 --> 02:05:44,600 So that's, yeah, that's it. It's just funny. 2516 02:05:45,080 --> 02:05:46,440 What's up with this guy? Challenge. 2517 02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:48,640 What's the challenge, Sir Sand Oracle Gang. 2518 02:05:48,640 --> 02:05:50,960 Definitely drunk, clearly. I mean, this guy was drunk as 2519 02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:53,240 Hex or Canton. We don't know what this guy's 2520 02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:55,960 role in the house is. He's not the red apple. 2521 02:05:55,960 --> 02:05:59,760 Fossaway Knight. That's probably Sir Brian, but 2522 02:06:00,160 --> 02:06:02,840 well, that requires some updating because we have Sir 2523 02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:05,880 Brian and Sir Edwin who were mentioned as Reds. 2524 02:06:06,240 --> 02:06:11,120 These two guys were around. They also were with Renly and 2525 02:06:11,120 --> 02:06:13,760 Stannis, and then they fought at the Battle of Blackwater 2526 02:06:14,280 --> 02:06:15,960 together. As we've been saying, the 2527 02:06:15,960 --> 02:06:17,560 Fossaways were fighting together, not against each 2528 02:06:17,560 --> 02:06:19,280 other. But fighting together wasn't 2529 02:06:19,280 --> 02:06:20,880 enough, as we'll see in a second. 2530 02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:24,160 Here now, Sir Tanton, he survived the battle, gravy boat 2531 02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:26,200 and all. He's now a sworn sword to Mace 2532 02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:27,840 Tyrell. More on him in a minute. 2533 02:06:28,760 --> 02:06:32,680 But Sir Brian and Sir Edward, there didn't go quite so well. 2534 02:06:33,120 --> 02:06:36,400 Someone seems to have picked the Fossaways as an enemy, someone 2535 02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:41,080 who shakes them to their core. Lo Thor. 2536 02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:45,360 Apple Eater In the aftermath of the Battle of the Blackwater, we 2537 02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:48,760 hear of the deeds of certain notables, and this is one of 2538 02:06:48,760 --> 02:06:52,880 those notables quote. The free rider Lothor Brune, 2539 02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:57,160 who'd cut his way through half 100 Fosseway Men at Arms to 2540 02:06:57,160 --> 02:07:02,720 capture Sir John of the Green Apple and kill Sir Brian and Sir 2541 02:07:02,720 --> 02:07:07,560 Edwin of the Red, thereby winning himself the name Lothor 2542 02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:10,120 Apple Eater. The biggest killer of apple 2543 02:07:10,120 --> 02:07:12,960 since worms. I think we just had an episode 2544 02:07:12,960 --> 02:07:16,240 called 3 Baratheon Bastards 2 weeks ago and this guy appeared 2545 02:07:16,240 --> 02:07:17,880 because he's very much into Mia Stone. 2546 02:07:18,160 --> 02:07:19,680 Not so much into apples apparently though. 2547 02:07:19,680 --> 02:07:22,200 He certainly hasn't tried to shoot any fruit off of any of 2548 02:07:22,200 --> 02:07:25,720 Mia's body parts. Maybe a fasaway should come 2549 02:07:25,880 --> 02:07:27,840 after him instead of after Sandor Culgain. 2550 02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:29,840 Tanton should be like no no Lothor. 2551 02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:31,920 Apple Eater is the big enemy of this house now forget about 2552 02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:34,240 Sandor. I don't think Tanton could beat 2553 02:07:34,240 --> 02:07:37,560 either of them. Gravy boat guy, but maybe Tanton 2554 02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:41,000 is a little more formidable when he's not drunk sworn sword to 2555 02:07:41,000 --> 02:07:42,920 Mace Tyrell. He's got to be at least a little 2556 02:07:42,920 --> 02:07:46,040 competent, although maybe not given who his employer is. 2557 02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:48,320 But isn't that interesting, right? 2558 02:07:48,320 --> 02:07:54,400 The the concept of a guy who's one of the many houses in the 2559 02:07:54,400 --> 02:07:56,800 Reach. And we know that the Reach might 2560 02:07:56,800 --> 02:08:01,720 be split soon by the so-called friends in the Reach, right? 2561 02:08:01,720 --> 02:08:06,040 We might have a division of Reach Lords who decide to stick 2562 02:08:06,040 --> 02:08:11,000 with Mace Tyrell versus those who sign on with Young Griff, 2563 02:08:11,040 --> 02:08:13,840 AKA Aegon the 6th, AKA, you know, along with Jon Connington 2564 02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:17,400 and all that. So where is that going to go? 2565 02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:21,720 Is there going to be, you know, some of these Fossaways might go 2566 02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:27,160 with, might turn and go with the Black Fires or the Aegon the 2567 02:08:27,160 --> 02:08:28,320 6th, whatever you want to call them? 2568 02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:30,280 Or are they going to stay loyal? And maybe, well, maybe it's a 2569 02:08:30,280 --> 02:08:34,280 little of both because there's multiple Fossaways and multiple 2570 02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:37,520 branches. But the idea that Mace Tyrell 2571 02:08:37,520 --> 02:08:40,960 has his sworn sword, that amongst one of the other houses 2572 02:08:40,960 --> 02:08:43,000 of the Reach, which of course he should, he'd have lots of those. 2573 02:08:43,080 --> 02:08:46,200 It's just a reminder that when the friends of the Reach do 2574 02:08:46,200 --> 02:08:50,160 their thing, some of them might be literally standing right 2575 02:08:50,160 --> 02:08:52,520 behind Mace Tyrell. Like literally one of them could 2576 02:08:52,520 --> 02:08:54,760 just draw a dagger and stab him. You know, like, ha ha, gotcha. 2577 02:08:55,120 --> 02:08:56,600 That's not the most nightly thing to do. 2578 02:08:56,600 --> 02:09:00,280 But don't think that's going to be so much of an argument to say 2579 02:09:00,280 --> 02:09:03,040 it won't happen, is it? So now, I'm not saying it's 2580 02:09:03,040 --> 02:09:07,160 Sirtantin, because the Fossaways probably aren't among the 2581 02:09:07,160 --> 02:09:10,240 friends in The Reach, and this final character is where the 2582 02:09:10,240 --> 02:09:13,360 clue for that comes from. The brown apple. 2583 02:09:13,680 --> 02:09:16,760 Sir Franklin Flowers is a captain in the Golden Company, 2584 02:09:16,880 --> 02:09:19,720 one familiar and relatively friendly to John Connington. 2585 02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:23,040 He also already knew Halden Hafmeister when when we first 2586 02:09:23,040 --> 02:09:25,400 introduced to Franklin Flowers. He knows these people already. 2587 02:09:25,400 --> 02:09:28,680 They've already been acquainted. He'd been in the Golden Company 2588 02:09:28,680 --> 02:09:30,640 for a while. Obviously so did Jon Connington, 2589 02:09:30,640 --> 02:09:33,320 so they were friends. Now at this point, he's a 2590 02:09:33,320 --> 02:09:36,040 captain. He was more of a regular exile 2591 02:09:36,040 --> 02:09:40,040 knight, followed A somewhat standard pattern to join the 2592 02:09:40,040 --> 02:09:42,440 Golden Company. He's not necessarily descendant 2593 02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:45,880 of an exile, but Fosseways aren't exiles here, at least not 2594 02:09:46,320 --> 02:09:50,600 other than Sir Derek Fosseway. Now the bad apple, that is. 2595 02:09:50,600 --> 02:09:51,960 We have the bad apple on the brown apple. 2596 02:09:51,960 --> 02:09:55,160 Contrast here. So Franklin's mother was a 2597 02:09:55,160 --> 02:09:58,840 washer woman at Cider Hall. His father was a fossaway who 2598 02:09:58,840 --> 02:10:01,040 forced herself, forced himself on that woman. 2599 02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:04,680 He says this makes him a brown apple fossaway, very much in 2600 02:10:04,680 --> 02:10:08,360 line with Westerosi sigil humor, word play and all that. 2601 02:10:08,560 --> 02:10:11,880 Here he is in a very important scene in a Dance of Dragons 2602 02:10:12,440 --> 02:10:15,800 quote. If my aunt wants Marine, she's 2603 02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:19,200 welcome to it. I will claim the Iron Throne by 2604 02:10:19,200 --> 02:10:22,480 myself, with your swords and your allegiance. 2605 02:10:22,680 --> 02:10:26,880 Move fast and strike hard and we can win some easy victories 2606 02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:29,760 before the Lannisters even know that we have landed. 2607 02:10:30,200 --> 02:10:32,120 That will bring others to our cause. 2608 02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:37,480 Rivers was smiling in approval. Others traded thoughtful looks 2609 02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:39,040 then. Peak said. 2610 02:10:39,240 --> 02:10:41,960 I would sooner die in Westeros than on the Demon Rd. 2611 02:10:42,320 --> 02:10:47,760 And Mark Mandrake chuckled and responded me I'd sooner live 2612 02:10:47,880 --> 02:10:50,000 wind lands and some great castle. 2613 02:10:50,560 --> 02:10:54,680 And Franklin Flowers slapped his sword hill and said. 2614 02:10:54,840 --> 02:10:58,080 So long as I can kill some Fossaways, I'm for it. 2615 02:10:59,120 --> 02:11:01,800 Now, given that last comment, it kind of does imply that the 2616 02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:04,880 Fossaways aren't their friends. Like this guy, Laswell Peak, 2617 02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:07,600 he's the one who says we have friends in the Reach. 2618 02:11:07,600 --> 02:11:12,800 And that's like the source of a lot of the conspiracy, which of 2619 02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:14,880 course that's there's more clues for it than that. 2620 02:11:15,320 --> 02:11:19,760 Randall Tarly's acting kind of sketchy, for example. 2621 02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:22,840 So he's a, he's a major candidate for being one of those 2622 02:11:22,840 --> 02:11:26,520 friends in the Reach. So the fact that the Fosaways 2623 02:11:26,520 --> 02:11:29,080 are a target of Franklin Flowers, a captain who's in the 2624 02:11:29,080 --> 02:11:33,040 know, sort of implies the Fosaways are not on that side. 2625 02:11:33,040 --> 02:11:36,640 They are going to stay loyal. Now, maybe something unexpected 2626 02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:39,440 will happen and they'll join up and they'll be like, hey, 'cause 2627 02:11:39,520 --> 02:11:42,400 I mean, that will bring others to our cause. 2628 02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:46,080 Aegon says here if they if they perform well, others will join 2629 02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:49,520 them. So yeah, maybe frankly, it won't 2630 02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:51,280 go Franklin's way and the Fossaways will join it. 2631 02:11:51,280 --> 02:11:52,400 But like, hey, they're all on our side. 2632 02:11:52,400 --> 02:11:54,280 How can I kill Fossaways when they're all our allies? 2633 02:11:55,680 --> 02:11:58,400 But honestly, you know who we would love to meet and praise 2634 02:11:58,400 --> 02:12:00,920 and buy a cup of cider for? It would be Lothor Apple. 2635 02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:03,080 You're like that, dude. Well played, man. 2636 02:12:03,080 --> 02:12:05,800 You killed how many Fossaways? Dude, I'm so jealous. 2637 02:12:06,680 --> 02:12:08,040 You captured one. Also. 2638 02:12:08,520 --> 02:12:09,720 I don't know if I'd have been able to do that. 2639 02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:10,960 I might have had to kill him, you know? 2640 02:12:12,000 --> 02:12:16,200 So Franklin is also like the Fossaways are emblematic of a 2641 02:12:16,200 --> 02:12:17,920 lot of things we've shown in this episode. 2642 02:12:17,920 --> 02:12:20,440 They're a house that's a bit idyllic. 2643 02:12:20,440 --> 02:12:22,960 They're a house that's really rich, a house that represents 2644 02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:24,560 the entanglement of noble houses. 2645 02:12:25,120 --> 02:12:28,360 We also have this side of things, a good example, the 2646 02:12:28,360 --> 02:12:31,480 hatred that the Exiles have for their distant cousins. 2647 02:12:31,680 --> 02:12:33,800 Especially his circumstances. His circumstances are more 2648 02:12:33,800 --> 02:12:35,680 extreme. He isn't just someone that got 2649 02:12:35,680 --> 02:12:38,320 exiled while the rest of his family got stayed behind. 2650 02:12:38,600 --> 02:12:43,520 He was brought into this world by violent sexual assault and 2651 02:12:43,520 --> 02:12:45,440 hates the man that did it. He hates his father. 2652 02:12:45,440 --> 02:12:47,240 He hates the family that did that to his mother. 2653 02:12:47,240 --> 02:12:50,000 Of course he's taking his mother's side, which I think all 2654 02:12:50,000 --> 02:12:52,480 of us would too. I mean, that's easy. 2655 02:12:52,480 --> 02:12:54,560 It's this isn't conflict. This isn't one of those like, 2656 02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:56,320 Gee, what side am I on on this one? 2657 02:12:56,320 --> 02:13:00,440 You know, like, no, you're we're on the side of the victim, not 2658 02:13:00,440 --> 02:13:02,200 the rapist. It's pretty straightforward. 2659 02:13:02,200 --> 02:13:03,640 It's about as straightforward as it gets. 2660 02:13:03,840 --> 02:13:07,600 So Franklin Flowers, you get why he's that way. 2661 02:13:07,640 --> 02:13:10,760 The other Fossaways aren't guilty by association. 2662 02:13:10,760 --> 02:13:13,480 You don't have to condone that, but you get it, right? 2663 02:13:13,920 --> 02:13:16,040 He hasn't named his father. We would love to know which 2664 02:13:16,040 --> 02:13:18,800 Fossaway it was so we could direct our ire at him too. 2665 02:13:18,800 --> 02:13:21,800 But I think for now, it's maybe George hasn't decided or it 2666 02:13:21,800 --> 02:13:24,120 isn't important, or maybe it is important. 2667 02:13:24,120 --> 02:13:27,280 It would be, it would be really something if it was a named 2668 02:13:27,280 --> 02:13:29,520 character or a direct descendant of a named character that we're 2669 02:13:29,520 --> 02:13:31,840 familiar with. Tanton Fossaway, again, that 2670 02:13:31,840 --> 02:13:34,880 comes back to him. What if whoever those friends 2671 02:13:35,080 --> 02:13:37,400 are going to go after the friends are going to turn on 2672 02:13:37,400 --> 02:13:38,920 Mace Tyrell? Well, they got to get through 2673 02:13:38,920 --> 02:13:43,120 Sir Tanton. Sir Tanton, he should change his 2674 02:13:43,120 --> 02:13:45,560 personal sigil. We're on the subject of personal 2675 02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:47,280 sigils. He should change it to an apple 2676 02:13:47,280 --> 02:13:50,120 in a gravy boat. A Tanton's perhaps the only 2677 02:13:50,120 --> 02:13:54,120 fossaway that decides. Maybe Sir John, who is a 2678 02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:56,080 candidate to be killed because we don't know the other names 2679 02:13:56,080 --> 02:13:57,680 like Franklin, might want to kill Sir Tanton. 2680 02:13:57,680 --> 02:13:59,840 Maybe he'll do that. And after he does that, well, 2681 02:13:59,840 --> 02:14:03,760 his, his appetite won't be, won't be satisfied. 2682 02:14:03,840 --> 02:14:05,480 You know, 1 apple, that's not enough. 2683 02:14:05,480 --> 02:14:08,520 Who, who's full off of 1 apple, especially not a soldier, you 2684 02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:11,200 know, got to travel all the way from Essos to kill Fossaways. 2685 02:14:11,200 --> 02:14:13,640 One's not going to be enough. So there's a lot there. 2686 02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:15,280 There's a lot going on with the Fossaways. 2687 02:14:15,280 --> 02:14:17,240 A lot. They're attached to their, their 2688 02:14:17,240 --> 02:14:19,560 branches are everywhere. Appropriate for a house 2689 02:14:19,560 --> 02:14:22,120 represented by apples, appropriate for the house that 2690 02:14:22,120 --> 02:14:26,440 has for a fruit that has such random diverse outcomes amongst 2691 02:14:26,440 --> 02:14:30,280 its own, its own existence, one that's so successful and 2692 02:14:30,280 --> 02:14:33,680 prominent and widespread. George loves these kind of 2693 02:14:33,680 --> 02:14:36,040 themes and this is such a great example of it. 2694 02:14:36,400 --> 02:14:39,280 It's so very fleshed out. I like the flesh of an apple. 2695 02:14:39,280 --> 02:14:41,360 It's so very fibrous and regular. 2696 02:14:42,800 --> 02:14:47,960 So outlook between Derek, who's maybe not the most popular 2697 02:14:47,960 --> 02:14:50,040 character, but definitely one we're really curious about, 2698 02:14:50,040 --> 02:14:52,680 Raymond, who is a very popular character and one we're very 2699 02:14:52,680 --> 02:14:56,320 curious about, and Stefan, there's a lot of stories 2700 02:14:57,320 --> 02:15:00,960 potential for us to still have that we haven't gotten yet. 2701 02:15:01,080 --> 02:15:04,280 What's unusual about that is is when we point this out, it's 2702 02:15:04,280 --> 02:15:08,160 usually something to come maybe in Fire and Blood to or A Song 2703 02:15:08,160 --> 02:15:11,040 of Ice and Fire. In this case, yes, Fire and 2704 02:15:11,040 --> 02:15:13,320 Blood 2 and probably Song of Ice and Fire as well. 2705 02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:16,720 But it's mostly Dunkin Egg where we have to look forward to this. 2706 02:15:16,720 --> 02:15:18,920 So it's different than our usual expectation. 2707 02:15:19,120 --> 02:15:23,320 And we are, at least at this point, most of us more 2708 02:15:23,440 --> 02:15:27,000 optimistic about the TV show. So because of George's 2709 02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:30,720 involvement in it, which means there could be an expansion or 2710 02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:35,680 some two way streets, George might say, hey, I don't 2711 02:15:35,680 --> 02:15:39,560 necessarily want to run with this whole lady Rowan, the sex 2712 02:15:39,560 --> 02:15:44,720 worker origin for Raymond's first Green Apple Fossaway Way 2713 02:15:44,720 --> 02:15:46,560 or for the founder, the matriarch of Green Apple 2714 02:15:46,560 --> 02:15:49,160 Fossaways. But he might be like, but he 2715 02:15:49,160 --> 02:15:52,000 might do that, or he might just go halfway and be like, yeah, 2716 02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:55,560 the first lady Green Apple Fossaways was named Rowan. 2717 02:15:55,600 --> 02:15:57,280 And just leave it at that. You know, it's a connecting 2718 02:15:57,280 --> 02:15:58,400 point. And the rest of us can kind of 2719 02:15:58,400 --> 02:15:59,920 we can fill the gaps in where we want. 2720 02:16:00,360 --> 02:16:02,800 That's what happens when George is pleased with what he sees on 2721 02:16:02,800 --> 02:16:05,440 TV. He'll actually like let them 2722 02:16:05,440 --> 02:16:08,360 give them a little leeway and and make it a two way St. even 2723 02:16:08,360 --> 02:16:10,160 though it's mostly one way still, they're still mostly 2724 02:16:10,160 --> 02:16:12,480 taken from him, but he may occasionally take a few things 2725 02:16:12,480 --> 02:16:14,040 from them and be like, hey, that was a good idea. 2726 02:16:14,440 --> 02:16:16,920 And the better the show is, the better the quality, the more he 2727 02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:18,480 likes it, the more likely that is to happen. 2728 02:16:18,960 --> 02:16:22,160 So I think it's it's not unlikely that the raiment of the 2729 02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:25,800 book starts to look a little bit and act a little bit more like 2730 02:16:25,800 --> 02:16:28,360 Shawn Thomas perhaps, which I'm all for that. 2731 02:16:29,600 --> 02:16:31,360 Either way, there's stuff to look forward to. 2732 02:16:31,960 --> 02:16:33,639 Now a couple more comments from you all. 2733 02:16:33,639 --> 02:16:37,200 I guess the saying absolutely is a few bad apples can ruin the 2734 02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:38,559 whole bunch. A rotten apple releases a 2735 02:16:38,559 --> 02:16:40,959 chemical which makes other nearby apples ripen and rotten 2736 02:16:40,959 --> 02:16:43,360 faster. Rotting flute fruit releases 2737 02:16:43,360 --> 02:16:46,440 ethylene gas which accelerates the ripening and decay of nearby 2738 02:16:46,440 --> 02:16:48,680 fruits. OK, so yeah, you're right, that 2739 02:16:48,680 --> 02:16:53,160 is the thing that happened. However, it's not always true. 2740 02:16:53,160 --> 02:16:54,879 Here's some additional explanation. 2741 02:16:54,879 --> 02:16:57,639 Looks like a Shia did some some on the fly research to help out 2742 02:16:57,639 --> 02:16:59,639 here. The bad apples metaphor 2743 02:16:59,639 --> 02:17:03,000 originates from the proverb. A rotten apple quickly infects 2744 02:17:03,000 --> 02:17:05,040 its neighbor. First recorded as used in 2745 02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:08,600 English in 1340. Linguists such as Ben Zimmer 2746 02:17:08,600 --> 02:17:10,639 have pointed out that the proverb began to be used in the 2747 02:17:10,639 --> 02:17:13,320 opposite sense in the 20th century, instead stating that a 2748 02:17:13,320 --> 02:17:15,400 few bad apples are not representative of the group. 2749 02:17:15,400 --> 02:17:20,120 OK so it's it's kind of had different iterations and back 2750 02:17:20,120 --> 02:17:24,120 and forth like the the the apple pendulum has swung both ways on 2751 02:17:24,120 --> 02:17:25,280 how this has been used. Interesting. 2752 02:17:26,680 --> 02:17:29,080 According to Zimmer, this usage may have corresponded to how 2753 02:17:29,520 --> 02:17:32,920 grocery stores changed the display usage of apples. 2754 02:17:32,920 --> 02:17:36,680 Modern shops would sold apples individually and of course, just 2755 02:17:36,680 --> 02:17:39,040 wouldn't display the bad ones. That's just common sense. 2756 02:17:39,040 --> 02:17:42,280 Yeah, just don't put your bad apples on display. 2757 02:17:43,520 --> 02:17:45,600 Zimmer also suggests the change in usage may have been 2758 02:17:45,600 --> 02:17:47,799 solidified by the band The Osmonds. 2759 02:17:48,320 --> 02:17:50,559 In 1971. They had a song called 1 Bad 2760 02:17:50,559 --> 02:17:53,360 Apple, which includes the line 1 Bad Apple. 2761 02:17:53,360 --> 02:17:55,160 Don't spoil the whole bunch, girl. 2762 02:17:55,680 --> 02:17:59,160 Yeah, songs can really spread lines like that, can't they? 2763 02:17:59,160 --> 02:18:03,040 So, So I guess it's a kind of AI was partly wrong, partly right. 2764 02:18:03,040 --> 02:18:05,959 There's just mostly there's just more to the story and that is a 2765 02:18:05,959 --> 02:18:07,959 lot of it right there. Randabir Mitra. 2766 02:18:07,959 --> 02:18:10,520 Hey, Randabir, how you doing? He says, could Franklin Flowers 2767 02:18:10,520 --> 02:18:14,000 defect a Danny's 'cause if Fagon chooses to be peaceful towards 2768 02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:17,520 House Fossaway, we did. Meaning me and Steven Atwell 2769 02:18:17,520 --> 02:18:20,080 contemplate this idea a few years ago and randomly reports 2770 02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:21,080 that out. Yeah. 2771 02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:24,240 I mean, the Golden Company aren't, they're not like, 2772 02:18:24,360 --> 02:18:26,400 married to each other. These are all exiles that are 2773 02:18:26,400 --> 02:18:29,799 united by a common goal. If that goal starts to fracture 2774 02:18:29,799 --> 02:18:32,600 and if that goal doesn't is no longer insight for a lot of 2775 02:18:32,600 --> 02:18:35,200 people who signed up with that goal in mind. 2776 02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:37,400 If that is taken away from them, then, yeah, they would 2777 02:18:37,400 --> 02:18:39,200 absolutely switch sides. I don't they're none of them are 2778 02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:41,480 married to the Golden Company in that sense. 2779 02:18:41,480 --> 02:18:43,320 They don't, I don't think. I think very few of them have 2780 02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:46,600 that level of loyalty to it. They all want what the Golden 2781 02:18:46,600 --> 02:18:49,120 Company can do for them. Maybe they want it as a fall 2782 02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:51,160 back, like if nothing works, they want to be able to stay 2783 02:18:51,160 --> 02:18:54,320 employed. But yeah, I think most of them 2784 02:18:54,320 --> 02:18:58,000 are willing to put it on the line to get lordships. 2785 02:18:58,639 --> 02:19:02,200 And absolutely Franklin could defect to Danny for that reason. 2786 02:19:02,760 --> 02:19:06,360 If if she's his best chance, if she if he's like, maybe just 2787 02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:07,959 because he doesn't want to be on the losing side. 2788 02:19:07,959 --> 02:19:11,959 I mean, a lot of Golden Company folk might defect because 2789 02:19:12,879 --> 02:19:15,440 Dragons. I don't want to fight that, you 2790 02:19:15,440 --> 02:19:19,120 know? So it might be not quite so 2791 02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:21,760 straightforward as this helps me accomplish my goals. 2792 02:19:21,760 --> 02:19:25,760 It might be I don't want to die, but also I can't accomplish my 2793 02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:27,879 goals if I'm dead. So there's both of that. 2794 02:19:28,400 --> 02:19:29,360 Good catch. Ran a beer. 2795 02:19:29,360 --> 02:19:31,639 I have not. I don't remember everything I 2796 02:19:31,639 --> 02:19:35,360 said about with Steven, Steven Atwell, when we talked about Sir 2797 02:19:35,360 --> 02:19:37,000 Derek back when we did that episode. 2798 02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:39,600 So folks, you should check that out again too. 2799 02:19:39,600 --> 02:19:42,719 It's one of my recommendations. Check out our episodes on the 9 2800 02:19:42,719 --> 02:19:44,959 Penny Kings. We did two of them, and the bad 2801 02:19:44,959 --> 02:19:48,920 apple comes up there as well. Our trivia question, Who 2802 02:19:48,920 --> 02:19:51,360 mentioned an apple while on their deathbed? 2803 02:19:52,240 --> 02:19:54,960 Robert Baratheon, Y'all. I think a few people probably 2804 02:19:54,960 --> 02:19:56,400 got that right or no. Did anyone get that? 2805 02:19:57,120 --> 02:19:59,920 Yeah, cool. Yes, someone did the scene. 2806 02:19:59,960 --> 02:20:02,600 Kolnitsky. Kolnitsky did 1st I believe. 2807 02:20:02,600 --> 02:20:04,040 Cool. Good job Kolnitsky and anyone 2808 02:20:04,040 --> 02:20:05,600 else who got it. The of course the scene is 2809 02:20:05,600 --> 02:20:10,160 Robert telling Ned to bake, to roast the boar that killed him, 2810 02:20:10,160 --> 02:20:11,480 and to put an apple in its mouth. 2811 02:20:12,840 --> 02:20:14,840 Yep, he didn't. It wasn't to do with the 2812 02:20:14,840 --> 02:20:16,240 Fossaway. Don't put a Fossaway in that 2813 02:20:16,240 --> 02:20:18,480 boar's mouth. In addition to the 9th Penny 2814 02:20:18,480 --> 02:20:21,680 Kings episodes, our Fire and Blood coverage as some relates 2815 02:20:21,680 --> 02:20:23,880 to some of the anecdotes we discussed here, the Fossaways 2816 02:20:23,880 --> 02:20:26,560 that were relevant during the times of the earlier Targaryen 2817 02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:28,840 kings. Valar Ritas of course, has a lot 2818 02:20:28,840 --> 02:20:31,720 of these, has a lot of analysis of different little tidbits 2819 02:20:31,720 --> 02:20:35,840 here, including Lothor, Apple Eater, Sansa, Leonette, 2820 02:20:35,840 --> 02:20:38,160 Fossaway, other things here and there. 2821 02:20:38,600 --> 02:20:40,080 Also our Night of the Seven Kingdoms coverage. 2822 02:20:40,080 --> 02:20:41,680 I assume most of you already caught that. 2823 02:20:41,680 --> 02:20:43,520 But if not, we certainly talked about the fossa ways, a good but 2824 02:20:43,520 --> 02:20:45,920 dare, and the Hedge night itself. 2825 02:20:45,920 --> 02:20:49,360 We did 4 episodes on the Hedge night and then 4 episodes each 2826 02:20:49,360 --> 02:20:53,720 on the Sworn Sword and the Mystery Night. 2827 02:20:53,920 --> 02:20:56,560 Or maybe it was 5 for some of them because we did wrap UPS. 2828 02:20:56,560 --> 02:20:59,120 But either way, lots of coverage of the Duncan Egg series, and 2829 02:20:59,120 --> 02:21:00,760 there's more fossa ways in there as well. 2830 02:21:01,400 --> 02:21:03,840 Thanks Anita for a lot of great takes today. 2831 02:21:04,000 --> 02:21:07,120 As usual, don't forget to check out good Queen Alley with 2832 02:21:07,120 --> 02:21:14,240 1l.tumblr.com. And thanks to Joey and Jesse for 2833 02:21:14,240 --> 02:21:17,320 our intro music and Michael Clarkfeld for the video. 2834 02:21:17,720 --> 02:21:20,160 Shout out to Brand the Builder as well, who has done so much 2835 02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:23,160 work for us in that regard. In terms of videos and intros, 2836 02:21:23,680 --> 02:21:25,440 we always want to make sure he gets credit. 2837 02:21:25,960 --> 02:21:29,200 On behalf of Oshea, I'm Aziz. Happy Easter, everybody. 2838 02:21:29,200 --> 02:21:31,840 This is the day we're recording it, whether you celebrate it or 2839 02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:34,120 not. We wish you good things and 2840 02:21:34,120 --> 02:21:37,720 we'll see you next time for more Valerie Ritas, folks.