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While Egon and his sisters were 
busy conquering the Storm Lands,

2
00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:55,150
the River Lands, the Vale, and 
what would become the Crown 

3
00:00:55,150 --> 00:00:58,430
Lands, the Iron Islands was in 
chaos after the fall of Hair in 

4
00:00:58,430 --> 00:01:00,190
the Black. 
So we'll speak of them later. 

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00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:03,230
And the Darnish continued to 
bide their time, so we'll speak 

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00:01:03,230 --> 00:01:06,870
of them later too. 
The Restoros includes 3 major 

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00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:09,620
kingdoms, the North, the West, 
and the Reach. 

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00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,380
Torrance Stark, King of the 
North, gathered his strength, 

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00:01:12,780 --> 00:01:16,620
preparing to March S it took him
longer, so we'll speak of him 

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00:01:16,620 --> 00:01:18,660
later. 
At the same time, the West in 

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the Reach decided to ally and 
fight the Dragons together and 

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00:01:22,220 --> 00:01:25,300
gathered their army quickly, so 
we'll speak of them now. 

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For once, two of the kingdoms 
were united and this resulted in

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the largest army ever fielded in
Westeros. 

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00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:36,060
Aegon, far from fearing this 
conflict, seems to have almost 

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00:01:36,060 --> 00:01:38,380
welcomed it. 
I mean, he would have preferred 

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00:01:38,380 --> 00:01:41,060
they knelt, but this gave him 
the opportunity to teach a 

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00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:43,100
lesson. 
If Heron Hall was his chance to 

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prove that no castle is safe by 
destroying the largest one ever 

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00:01:46,460 --> 00:01:49,700
built, why not teach the same 
lesson when it comes to the 

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00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:52,940
largest army ever fielded? 
If the West and Reach were going

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to gather all that many men in 
one place, he would gladly come 

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00:01:56,740 --> 00:01:59,980
and make an example of them. 
Teach them why you shouldn't do 

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00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:02,700
that. 
Aegon knew that the biggest army

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00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:05,380
ever seen in Westeros wouldn't 
fare much better than the 

26
00:02:05,380 --> 00:02:07,620
biggest castle had. 
And he was right. 

27
00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:12,780
It was a spectacular and unique 
battle, but it wasn't a close 

28
00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:15,740
battle. 
But it definitely wasn't simple 

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00:02:15,860 --> 00:02:17,940
either. 
There were many considerations, 

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00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:20,460
issues of timing, and 
uncertainty. 

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Aegon had such a huge advantage,
compounded by the fact that his 

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00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:29,340
enemies were ignorant of how big
his advantage was, so he was 

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00:02:29,340 --> 00:02:31,740
able to think ahead about the 
aftermath. 

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00:02:32,020 --> 00:02:34,920
During the battle, he was able 
to coordinate the outcome a 

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00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:38,440
little bit in ways that you 
can't normally plan war. 

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00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,080
It's war like, ah well, what 
happens happens. 

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00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,000
Like there's only so much you 
can plan, right? 

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00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,080
It's a little easier to plan 
when you know you're going to 

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00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:45,760
win. 
Yes, right. 

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00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,240
When you know. 
I guess it's a little easier to 

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00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,320
plan when you know you're going 
to lose. 

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00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,080
Also, I guess so yeah, your 
choices are smaller. 

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00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,080
Anyway, He could decide who 
lived and who died on the field 

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00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,840
of battle instead of having to 
make uncomfortable decisions 

45
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,240
later, right? 
He could curtail the outcome in 

46
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,800
a way that you normally can't. 
Put a different way. 

47
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,720
Killing on nobles on the 
battlefield is kingly, while 

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00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,960
executing them afterwards is. 
That kind of comes off wrong. 

49
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,480
It looks tyrannical, Even if 
either way you're killing 

50
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,560
someone who has no chance. 
That's not really how it's 

51
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,520
perceived in Westeros. 
We can argue the similarities to

52
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,490
that scenario, but there's no 
doubt in my mind that it comes 

53
00:03:23,490 --> 00:03:27,490
off way differently to the other
nobles and the the peasants if 

54
00:03:27,490 --> 00:03:30,770
we're if we're getting into it. 
So this factor determined much 

55
00:03:30,770 --> 00:03:34,090
of his strategy, determined this
factor, determined much of his 

56
00:03:34,090 --> 00:03:38,130
strategy during and after, and 
arguably the short period of 

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00:03:38,130 --> 00:03:40,450
time after the battle was more 
compelling than the battle 

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00:03:40,450 --> 00:03:42,330
itself. 
I'll tell you right now that 

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00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:45,930
there's a lot unsaid here, which
means a lot of our filling in 

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00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:48,050
the blanks and reading between 
the lines is going to happen. 

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00:03:48,050 --> 00:03:51,370
So you get to decide yourself 
which is more interesting, judge

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00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:54,570
for, judge that on your own. 
We'll give you all the info we 

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00:03:54,570 --> 00:03:58,010
can, and either way, it's going 
to come up quite a few times in 

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00:03:58,010 --> 00:04:00,970
the Song of Ice and Fire and 
Duncan Egg, meaning the Field of

65
00:04:00,970 --> 00:04:05,170
Fire as a historical anecdote or
as a lesson or as a piece of 

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00:04:05,170 --> 00:04:07,530
history, something that fits in 
the world building pretty often.

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00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:10,290
So we'll be bringing all that 
into the reread is discussion 

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today as well. 
Yes, all that and more on this 

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00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:16,950
episode of History of Westeros 
podcast. 

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00:04:17,310 --> 00:04:21,550
Hello and welcome everybody. 
Every Sunday, almost every 

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00:04:21,550 --> 00:04:23,830
Sunday, that is. 
We get together for a live 

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00:04:23,830 --> 00:04:26,310
stream at 3:00 PM Eastern on 
YouTube. 

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00:04:26,670 --> 00:04:29,670
Afterwards, you can still see 
that video on YouTube, but you 

74
00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:34,710
can catch an edited version up 
on Spotify or the audio only 

75
00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:38,990
version available everywhere 
that you catch podcasts. 

76
00:04:39,490 --> 00:04:42,450
And it's ad free if you join us 
on Patreon. 

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00:04:42,530 --> 00:04:45,170
Sean, how's it going today? 
You got a special drink for us 

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00:04:45,170 --> 00:04:47,490
today or for you? 
You're not sharing it, I assume.

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00:04:48,970 --> 00:04:51,930
I wish I could. 
This is a fiery red drink for 

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00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:53,530
the field of fire that is very 
red. 

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00:04:53,530 --> 00:04:57,610
Maybe for the blood of the 
Dragons as well, it's This is 

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00:04:57,610 --> 00:05:01,410
the Rainbow machine with 
Mountain Dew with. 

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00:05:02,270 --> 00:05:05,870
Sparkling Ice Black Raspberry. 
And it's delicious as always. 

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00:05:06,070 --> 00:05:11,150
Doubt it as as always. 
I also got this new Mastodon 

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00:05:11,150 --> 00:05:12,030
shirt. 
Nice. 

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00:05:12,030 --> 00:05:14,790
I like that. 
Mastodon, which I think I'll 

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00:05:14,790 --> 00:05:17,070
wear this the next time we do 
any kind of Hightower centered 

88
00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:18,790
thing. 
It's like a torch of green 

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00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:20,550
lights. 
Yeah, that is like a Hightower 

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00:05:20,550 --> 00:05:21,190
thing. 
You're right. 

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00:05:21,190 --> 00:05:23,550
Yeah, maybe. 
I own several Mastodon shirts 

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00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:25,270
and I'm a big fan of Mastodon, 
but I don't think I've seen that

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00:05:25,270 --> 00:05:26,110
shirt before. 
That's cool. 

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00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:28,190
I hadn't either. 
I snatched it right. 

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00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:33,240
I've got my Mazaria shirt on 
nice and purple for Targaryen 

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00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,480
eyes and the silver lighting. 
By Fox and Brambles who did our 

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00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:44,360
logo shout out to Ashton. 
So shout out as well to our good

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00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,240
friend Nina. 
That's good Queen Alley with 17 

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00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:54,120
L's and I mean 1L in good queen 
alley tom.tumblr.com Very 

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00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,320
interesting question she was 
asked and a very excellent 

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00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,640
answer she gives to what about 
Davos being offered the chance 

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00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,480
to make a shadow baby with 
Melisandra? 

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00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,560
What's her deal there? 
Is she trying to bring him under

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00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,480
her power? 
Seduce him? 

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00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,360
Gain his loyalty? 
It's a really interesting 

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00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,240
question. 
And would and has she offered 

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00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,560
that to other people? 
Like, wouldn't there be other 

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00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,200
people want lining up to make 
shadow babies for their king, 

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given the offer, the context of 
the offer. 

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00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,060
So it's a it's a very good 
question and Nina gives a really

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00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:24,260
good answer. 
You're going to want to go over 

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00:06:24,260 --> 00:06:26,500
there and read about that. 
One point she brings up is, 

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00:06:27,260 --> 00:06:31,500
well, it becomes an interesting 
moral conundrum because Davos is

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00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:35,820
the center of Davos's moral 
morality is loyalty to Stannis, 

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00:06:35,820 --> 00:06:40,620
and Melisandra frames it as a 
deed done for his king. 

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00:06:40,780 --> 00:06:43,940
So it's kind of like, well, he 
did it, Stannis did this. 

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00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:46,980
Shouldn't you do it too? 
Shouldn't you be willing to do 

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00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:48,180
the same thing your king has 
given? 

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It's a really. 
Yeah, that's a really good. 

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00:06:49,980 --> 00:06:52,500
That's a really good question 
and answer and Kylie encourage 

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00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:54,660
you to read that and and think 
about it yourself too, because 

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00:06:54,660 --> 00:07:00,340
it is a it is a tough question. 
I I think it's another option is

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that she might have been testing
him. 

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It might not even worked, but 
she might just wanted to know 

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how he would take it. 
She's sizing him up, you know? 

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00:07:06,340 --> 00:07:07,620
Absolutely. 
Nina brings that up too. 

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00:07:07,620 --> 00:07:10,420
So you're you're right to point 
to that and Nina caught that as 

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00:07:10,420 --> 00:07:11,530
well. 
All right. 

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And I, we talked about this a 
little head of time. 

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I'm going to point out that I 
would have been like, heck yeah.

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I mean, he's in jail. 
That's. 

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00:07:17,810 --> 00:07:19,210
Yeah, that's the part I bring 
up. 

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Take part in a magical spell 
like let's say. 

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It just keeps do it for my kids.
What's the downside? 

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So take out our enemy. 
Yeah, yeah, that's the big fail 

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00:07:31,580 --> 00:07:36,220
in Davis's PAR, I'm gonna say. 
So ask questions if you have 

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00:07:36,220 --> 00:07:37,700
them, whether you're watching 
live. 

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00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:40,140
You can send them right here for
Asheya to catch and we'll put 

139
00:07:40,140 --> 00:07:42,980
them in the stream, or you can 
send them to us anywhere that 

140
00:07:42,980 --> 00:07:46,620
you interact with. 
Us.westeroshistory@gmail.com is 

141
00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:49,440
one of those places. 
If you want to find links to 

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00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,480
everything I ever talk about, 
whether it's links to our other 

143
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,680
products, linked to Nina, linked
to our other pages, anything 

144
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,560
like that, go to 
historyofwesteros.com. 

145
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,640
That's where all that's it's 
stored in one place. 

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00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,360
As well as Ashaya's excellent 
episode Sorter. 

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00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,800
You can find a version of that. 
There lots of things on our 

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00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,040
website that you will find 
useful. 

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And at the end of this episode, 
of course I'll mention some that

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00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,720
are relevant to this one and 
I'll give the answer to this 

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00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,060
trivia question. 
But one thing I'm going to do a 

152
00:08:16,060 --> 00:08:18,100
little different with these 
trivia questions going forward 

153
00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:22,780
is the answer to this question 
comes during the episode. 

154
00:08:23,180 --> 00:08:25,660
Like I'm the answer appears 
during the episode. 

155
00:08:25,660 --> 00:08:27,420
So if you're paying close 
attention, you might catch it 

156
00:08:28,020 --> 00:08:29,380
either way. 
I'll tell you at the end. 

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And the question is, there were 
four commanders on the field of 

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00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:35,140
fire on the side of the two 
kings. 

159
00:08:35,140 --> 00:08:38,460
So the reach West side had four 
commanders, the right, the left,

160
00:08:38,460 --> 00:08:41,659
the center and the vanguard. 
One was King Merne, one was his 

161
00:08:41,659 --> 00:08:44,860
son Edmond, one was King Lauren.
And who was the other? 

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00:08:45,140 --> 00:08:48,020
So one that was not a king or 
the son of a king cuz it wasn't 

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00:08:48,020 --> 00:08:50,500
King Lauren's son. 
The answer comes during the 

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00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:53,380
episode. 
Like I said all right setup and 

165
00:08:53,380 --> 00:08:55,740
1st mention. 
I kind of wanted to call this 

166
00:08:55,740 --> 00:09:00,700
one the field of fire and 
friendship for everyone cuz 

167
00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:03,580
that's that's cuz that is 
basically what happened, right? 

168
00:09:03,580 --> 00:09:06,380
Everyone either got burned or 
peace got peace. 

169
00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:08,220
They got friendship for 
everyone, right? 

170
00:09:08,220 --> 00:09:11,260
It may have been a forced 
friendship, but it was enforced 

171
00:09:11,260 --> 00:09:12,860
pretty heavily. 
Because, you know, if you didn't

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00:09:13,300 --> 00:09:15,180
stay friends, you you got the 
burn. 

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00:09:15,220 --> 00:09:17,060
You're right, like those are 
your options. 

174
00:09:17,060 --> 00:09:19,020
And they remained your options 
even afterwards. 

175
00:09:19,340 --> 00:09:21,860
So yeah, the field of fire comes
up quite a lot In The Song of 

176
00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:24,700
Ice and Fire. 
It is well remembered, as Agon 

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00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:27,020
surely expected it to be. 
And as we'll see, it was 

178
00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:30,260
probably at least in part by 
design, an example to stand the 

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00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:31,980
test of time in the vein of 
Heron Hall. 

180
00:09:32,140 --> 00:09:34,660
The singers call it the Field of
Fire, right. 

181
00:09:35,210 --> 00:09:38,650
I wonder if it was like a Blood 
Raven thing where we we theorize

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00:09:38,650 --> 00:09:41,090
or a Tywin thing where we 
theorize the Tywin like, 

183
00:09:41,490 --> 00:09:44,650
encouraged the singing of the 
reigns of Casimir or Blood Raven

184
00:09:44,650 --> 00:09:46,730
encouraged the singing of 1000 
Eyes in one. 

185
00:09:46,730 --> 00:09:48,890
Like Air guns. 
Like yeah, think about the Field

186
00:09:48,890 --> 00:09:50,170
of Fire. 
Absolutely. 

187
00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:52,610
Keep that one going. 
Make sure it's a good song that 

188
00:09:52,610 --> 00:09:56,650
people keep singing And it's 
it's it kind of rolls off the 

189
00:09:56,650 --> 00:09:58,330
tongue field of Fire, the 
burning of hair. 

190
00:09:58,330 --> 00:10:00,210
And Hall doesn't have like a 
name, doesn't have a nickname. 

191
00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:02,750
It just the burning of Heron 
Hall, right? 

192
00:10:02,830 --> 00:10:04,630
It's no fancy clever nickname 
for it. 

193
00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:06,630
This is kind of like it is a 
little poetic. 

194
00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:09,470
The field of Fire it. 
Would have been so much better 

195
00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:11,390
if it was Baron Hall or 
something. 

196
00:10:11,390 --> 00:10:12,590
Baron Hall. 
That's really good. 

197
00:10:14,470 --> 00:10:15,990
I like that. 
Yeah, that's what it should have

198
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:19,510
been renamed to afterwards. 
It was built Heron Hall, but it 

199
00:10:19,510 --> 00:10:21,110
became Baron Hall pretty 
quickly. 

200
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:26,200
Yeah, so that is needed too, 
because Heron Hall, there's the 

201
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,240
long lasting visual evidence 
you've got that sitting there 

202
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,800
still now to this day as a 
testament to the power of of the

203
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,320
dragon. 
Well, at least of 1 Dragon in 

204
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,520
particular, but it works for the
others in in a in a lesser 

205
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,320
sense. 
So this is remembered more by 

206
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,200
song and memory and clever 
naming and things like that and 

207
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,800
history books. 
So there wouldn't be a lot of 

208
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,160
there'd be more of that, right? 
More. 

209
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,720
Maybe we'll hear a song of it 
one day. 

210
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,160
Here's an example which also 
happens to be the first ever 

211
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,280
mention of the Field of Fire 
from Tyrion to A Game of 

212
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,080
Thrones. 
Tyrion stood in that dank cellar

213
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:08,240
for a long time, staring at 
Valerians huge empty eyed skull 

214
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,520
until his torch burned low, 
trying to grasp the size of the 

215
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,280
living animal to imagine how it 
must have looked when it spread 

216
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,850
its great black wings. 
And swept across the skies 

217
00:11:19,890 --> 00:11:23,330
breathing fire. 
His own remote ancestor, King 

218
00:11:23,330 --> 00:11:26,970
Lauren of the Rock, had tried to
stand against the fire when he 

219
00:11:26,970 --> 00:11:30,570
joined with King Merne of the 
Reach to oppose the Targaryen 

220
00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:35,010
conquest that was close on 300 
years ago when the Seven 

221
00:11:35,010 --> 00:11:38,770
Kingdoms were kingdoms and not 
mere provinces of a greater 

222
00:11:38,770 --> 00:11:42,690
realm. 
Between them the 2 kings had 600

223
00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:46,210
banners flying 5000 mounted 
Knights. 

224
00:11:46,590 --> 00:11:49,950
And 10 times as many free riders
and men at arms. 

225
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:55,310
Aegon Dragon Lord had perhaps 
1/5 that number, the chroniclers

226
00:11:55,310 --> 00:11:59,150
said, and most of those were 
conscripts from the ranks of the

227
00:11:59,150 --> 00:12:03,310
Last King he had slain. 
Their loyalties uncertain, the 

228
00:12:03,310 --> 00:12:07,390
hosts met on the broad plains of
the Reach amidst golden fields 

229
00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:11,230
of wheat ripe for harvest. 
When the 2 kings charged, the 

230
00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:15,110
Targaryen army shivered and 
shattered and began to run for a

231
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:17,660
few moments. 
The chroniclers wrote the 

232
00:12:17,660 --> 00:12:22,780
conquest was at an end, but only
for those few moments before 

233
00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:25,940
Aegon Targaryen and his sisters 
joined the battle. 

234
00:12:25,980 --> 00:12:31,300
It was the only time that Vegar,
Moraxis and Balerian were all 

235
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:35,060
unleashed at once. 
The Singers called it the Field 

236
00:12:35,060 --> 00:12:38,780
of Fire. 
Near 4000 men had burned that 

237
00:12:38,780 --> 00:12:42,140
day, among them King Merne of 
the Reach. 

238
00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:46,340
King Lauren had escaped and 
lived long enough to surrender, 

239
00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:50,340
pledge his fealty to the 
Targaryens and beget a son, for 

240
00:12:50,340 --> 00:12:55,420
which Tyrion was duly grateful. 
Nice, long, excellent, fun 

241
00:12:55,420 --> 00:12:57,020
quote. 
There just goes to show how much

242
00:12:57,020 --> 00:12:59,980
of that detail George included 
really early in the story. 

243
00:13:00,140 --> 00:13:04,260
That's the 14th chapter of the 
series, and along with Tyrion, 

244
00:13:04,260 --> 00:13:06,300
we will be imagining what it 
must have been like. 

245
00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:09,060
And it's pretty intense. 
I mean, think about that. 

246
00:13:09,060 --> 00:13:11,940
He's just trying to grasp the 
size of this creature as he's 

247
00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:15,660
standing, looking at its skull 
and how large its flames must 

248
00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:18,780
have been, and then all that. 
There's been a few examples of 

249
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:21,580
Dragons on T We have an easier 
time imagining it than Tyrion 

250
00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:25,220
does, I think, because we've 
gotten to see Dragons on TV that

251
00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:28,660
were rendered with really 
excellent CGI and against army. 

252
00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:32,420
That Loot Train episode of 
season seven of Game of Thrones 

253
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:36,890
is a probably our best visual 
similarity. 

254
00:13:36,890 --> 00:13:39,450
It was an army of Westermen 
enrichment even, right? 

255
00:13:39,450 --> 00:13:41,450
Like there were Thraki at the 
Field of Fire. 

256
00:13:41,450 --> 00:13:43,250
So that's pretty different. 
And there was really only one 

257
00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:45,730
dragon there that did anything 
significant. 

258
00:13:45,730 --> 00:13:48,730
So there's still substantial 
differences in that battle and 

259
00:13:48,730 --> 00:13:51,970
this one, but still, it's the 
visuals there. 

260
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:55,450
A lot of those would apply here.
So the Field of Fire belongs in 

261
00:13:55,450 --> 00:13:57,780
the pantheon of early world 
building. 

262
00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:00,820
George likely had this stuff 
written well before he even 

263
00:14:00,820 --> 00:14:04,900
expanded the series beyond a 
trilogy, which is why we should 

264
00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:08,020
be more sure that it matters as 
a historical analogy. 

265
00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:11,700
Slash parallel slash lesson, or 
some kind of foreshadowing or 

266
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:14,020
all the above. 
Because George included it so 

267
00:14:14,020 --> 00:14:17,100
early and he kept so many of the
original details exactly the 

268
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:21,980
same very detailed numbers. 
He doesn't usually do that with 

269
00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:24,590
these historical anecdotes, 
right? 

270
00:14:24,590 --> 00:14:27,830
Usually it's more vague, like 
the armies were large or the 

271
00:14:28,030 --> 00:14:30,190
toast was the largest ever seen.
No, He gives us the exact 

272
00:14:30,190 --> 00:14:34,030
numbers, and those exact numbers
are the exact same in Fire and 

273
00:14:34,030 --> 00:14:38,990
Blood 600 banners, which is 600 
Lords or 600 landed people like 

274
00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:40,430
some of them could be Knights 
with castles. 

275
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:43,630
Same difference, they're both. 
It's called the 2 kings in 

276
00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:47,070
capital, right? 
5000 Knights with 55,000 total 

277
00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:50,310
and 11,000 for Agon. 
All those details are the exact 

278
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:51,750
same. 
The only things that I can see 

279
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:54,330
that change selling of Vagar 
Causeway. 

280
00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:58,010
Vagar used to have an extra H in
it and the calling agon agon 

281
00:14:58,010 --> 00:15:01,890
Dragon Lord which didn't really 
stick as a as a nickname even 

282
00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:03,170
though it was retty early in the
book. 

283
00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:06,720
Comes U once or twice the never 
again, then it's just egg on the

284
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,600
Conqueror, egg on Targaryen, egg
on the first whatever. 

285
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,840
They just didn't call him that 
anymore. 

286
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,280
George just kind of pivoted away
from that nickname. 

287
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,360
Well, that was kind of my 
question is the other times that

288
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,880
he was mentioned like I got the 
idea that Tyrion said it like 

289
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,160
that because he was emphasizing 
that aspect of egg on like. 

290
00:15:23,570 --> 00:15:27,010
It almost seemed dominion, like 
diminutive of him, like he was 

291
00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:30,490
saying diminishing what he did, 
like Aegon Dragon Lord. 

292
00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:33,090
Interesting, you know it was. 
But like I don't think that is 

293
00:15:33,090 --> 00:15:36,370
how it's said in the other times
it's it's mentioned like that. 

294
00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:38,650
I don't recall exactly the 
context of the other times he 

295
00:15:38,650 --> 00:15:41,090
calls it's called dragon. 
Maybe it's a question for 

296
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:42,810
another time I think. 
But yeah it's only a few times. 

297
00:15:42,810 --> 00:15:44,250
That's a really interesting 
interpretation to share. 

298
00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:46,730
I like that. 
And Tyrion is, of all the 

299
00:15:46,730 --> 00:15:48,770
characters, is someone who's 
thought about Dragons and dragon

300
00:15:48,770 --> 00:15:51,360
Lords the most. 
So, and this is our introduction

301
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,360
to that, is literally the 
chapter where we first find out 

302
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,520
that he's obsessed with Dragons.
This is this is where it comes 

303
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,320
this is our introduction to 
Tyrion's Dragonosity. 

304
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,760
It would be an interesting but 
although maybe difficult thing 

305
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,760
to analyze the the different 
people and when when they refer 

306
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,240
to Agon what they call them, you
know the context of the 

307
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,320
conversation or the perspective 
of the person was because it is,

308
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,680
it is. 
I didn't think about it until 

309
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,680
she said that, but it does make 
me think that it kind of. 

310
00:16:16,590 --> 00:16:18,470
He's a dragon Lord. 
Of course he won this big 

311
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:19,830
battle. 
He had a freaking dragon like. 

312
00:16:20,510 --> 00:16:22,990
I guess he's a conqueror, but 
really it's a Dragon Lord. 

313
00:16:22,990 --> 00:16:24,510
It does take away a little bit, 
you know. 

314
00:16:24,510 --> 00:16:27,030
He didn't call him egg on the Y.
Yeah, but if I'm picturing 

315
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:30,350
Tyrion narrating that line, 
there's a little snark in there 

316
00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:33,990
to me. 
And he's talking to a little 

317
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:37,190
Stark at the time, or he's 
talking to John. 

318
00:16:39,070 --> 00:16:40,990
John's a little stark, yeah. 
He's a little stark, yeah. 

319
00:16:40,990 --> 00:16:45,550
It's not a whole Stark, but. 
I want to point also. 

320
00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:50,250
That the numbers George gave us 
aren't preposterously inflated? 

321
00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:51,370
No, you're right. 
Big. 

322
00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:54,170
But they're not out of control 
like the wall or a few other 

323
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:57,530
things that he's named. 
Yeah, you're right. 

324
00:16:57,530 --> 00:16:59,410
That might. 
Be with a little regret. 

325
00:16:59,530 --> 00:17:00,570
Yeah, that's a good point. 
Yeah. 

326
00:17:00,570 --> 00:17:02,130
These armies are not absurdly 
large. 

327
00:17:02,130 --> 00:17:03,690
These are, these are reasonable 
size. 

328
00:17:04,369 --> 00:17:07,130
In fact, they would be. 
This is something we'll talk 

329
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:09,730
about a little later is the size
of the army and how this 

330
00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:12,890
reflects the population of the 
era and how like a similar sized

331
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,800
gathering of armies now would 
probably be larger like Renley's

332
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,920
army was larger for example. 
It just didn't see battle. 

333
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,640
So it doesn't get this is the 
largest army that ever saw a 

334
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,040
battle, right that that we know 
of. 

335
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,359
There have been other ones that 
were larger that just were an 

336
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,040
army but never did any fighting,
at least not in that form. 

337
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,680
So yeah, I like that 
interpretation as well If you 

338
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,760
think back, I mean they would 
have been different names he had

339
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,680
at the time, like when did he 
start getting called Egg on the 

340
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,600
Conqueror like right away maybe.
But there he would have maybe 

341
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,360
had other nicknames that, some 
of which may be predated the 

342
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,080
Conquest, and then some of those
would have faded. 

343
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,840
And yeah, different eras might 
have called him different 

344
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,480
things, just despite the the 
main name. 

345
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,200
I suppose, yeah. 
If you're talking about Joe 

346
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,920
Biden in the 80s, you might 
refer to him as Senator Biden 

347
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,880
cuz he wasn't president yet. 
That's true. 

348
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,880
Yeah sure he might have had 
different like no one called 

349
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,440
him. 
Like people call him Sleepy Joe 

350
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,480
now. 
I don't think anyone called him 

351
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,280
Sleepy Joe in the 90s, you know?
Pete Holmes bit about yeah. 

352
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:08,350
Whenever there's some mean bully
person that's scaring you, just 

353
00:18:08,350 --> 00:18:10,550
remember in a few hours he's 
going to be. 

354
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:15,510
The cold side of the pillow. 
Everyone sleeps to take some 

355
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:18,430
fear away from the bullies. 
That's a good point. 

356
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:20,750
Even Dragons, right? 
Like Valerians. 

357
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:25,430
Just like. 
A sleeping dragon is still 

358
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:26,670
pretty scary. 
Yeah, that's true. 

359
00:18:26,670 --> 00:18:28,510
That's true. 
Just like this snore would knock

360
00:18:28,510 --> 00:18:30,670
you off your feet. 
Just like, accidentally, yeah, 

361
00:18:30,670 --> 00:18:32,270
they snort. 
Little bits of flame, just like 

362
00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:34,870
little tiny bits pop out right? 
Like, by accident. 

363
00:18:36,060 --> 00:18:37,780
Here's another fun aspect to 
that quote. 

364
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:40,660
It sounds like Tyrion is down in
the cellar looking at the 

365
00:18:40,660 --> 00:18:44,580
skulls, but if you remember your
your books, that never happens. 

366
00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:46,220
He's never down in the Cellars 
looking at the skulls. 

367
00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:48,300
This is a memory he's thinking 
about. 

368
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:49,460
This time that he was down 
there. 

369
00:18:49,460 --> 00:18:51,180
He's actually on his way to the 
wall. 

370
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,060
What? 
What's brings up this memory is 

371
00:18:54,060 --> 00:18:56,500
he's reading about the 
properties of dragon bone. 

372
00:18:56,780 --> 00:19:00,380
He sits down at a tree to read 
his academic treatise on dragon 

373
00:19:00,380 --> 00:19:06,220
bone, starts thinking about 
dragon skulls, and he's taken 

374
00:19:06,220 --> 00:19:08,940
back to the cellar where he's 
thinking about that. 

375
00:19:09,540 --> 00:19:11,700
And that leads him to think of 
the Field of Fire. 

376
00:19:12,380 --> 00:19:15,900
Which is cool, because as I 
said, this is the introduction 

377
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:19,620
to Tyrion being so into Dragons.
It's basically our first real 

378
00:19:19,620 --> 00:19:22,220
introduction to any sort of 
dragon lore, and it's the field 

379
00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:23,340
of fire. 
That's what we get. 

380
00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:25,340
The first thing we get is 
Valerian Skull, then a 

381
00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:26,300
description of the field of 
fire. 

382
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:28,740
That's our introduction to 
Dragons and Westeros. 

383
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,080
But for like, Danny's had her 
first chapter, but she's not 

384
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,280
really thinking about Dragons 
that much. 

385
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,080
She's like getting out of the 
bath and anxious about her 

386
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,400
wedding, and visceras is being 
all crappy to her, like he 

387
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,800
always is. 
Like there's not much talk of 

388
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,200
actual Dragons there. 
So this is where it starts. 

389
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:50,110
It's also a good writing device 
because it makes the world feel 

390
00:19:50,110 --> 00:19:52,870
more real, Yeah. 
When characters in the world 

391
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:56,070
think about other things, 
historical events in the world, 

392
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:58,430
it makes it seem like the world 
itself is more real. 

393
00:19:58,430 --> 00:19:59,350
It's. 
I agree. 

394
00:19:59,750 --> 00:20:02,510
It's good on so many levels. 
Yeah, and George has this great 

395
00:20:02,510 --> 00:20:05,470
way of like, you might think 
like a lot of authors would have

396
00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:08,990
put this history in Danny's 
chapters because they are there.

397
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:11,190
It's her ancestors. 
But Tyrion's the one obsessed 

398
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:13,470
with Dragons. 
He's the one that's really into 

399
00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:14,990
it. 
So he's the one gives U.S. 

400
00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:16,270
history for that. 
That's something George does a 

401
00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:20,750
lot of where back story comes in
a chapter that applies to a 

402
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:23,550
different plotline, and we 
pointed a lot of that out during

403
00:20:23,550 --> 00:20:26,270
the standard valor. 
Read us for A Song of Ice and 

404
00:20:26,270 --> 00:20:29,310
Fire and I. 
Pointed this out one time too, 

405
00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:33,270
and we were trying to like, 
categorize, if you will, 

406
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:35,470
Martin's writings. 
It's fantasy. 

407
00:20:36,540 --> 00:20:38,900
Intrigue. 
Whore. 

408
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:41,340
But I think mystery as much as 
any of those, Yeah. 

409
00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:44,260
And that's one way to present it
as a mystery is to kind of 

410
00:20:44,260 --> 00:20:45,740
scatter the information, you 
know? 

411
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:51,160
And Speaking of the mid, one of 
the mysteries comes up here, the

412
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,000
next line as Tyrion's thinking. 
It's one of the first examples 

413
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,280
of the interruption trick that 
George uses of he's in the 

414
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,760
middle of lore and rather than 
finding a spot to end the lore 

415
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,240
lesson, it gets interrupted by 
the characters, something that's

416
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,960
actually happening that's more 
pressing or present. 

417
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,120
Like in this case, John says one
of the most famous lines in the 

418
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:15,120
early books or if not all the 
books, why do you read so much, 

419
00:21:15,620 --> 00:21:18,300
Which is by itself like, oh, we 
love that question because 

420
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:23,940
Tyrion gives a fantastic answer.
It's a beloved answer and it's 

421
00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:26,820
the irony in this moment is 
gigantic because he's reading 

422
00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:30,020
about Targaryen history which 
probably doesn't apply to 

423
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:31,300
Tyrion. 
But there's a chance it does 

424
00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:34,620
because he might be one. 
But John is right like that we 

425
00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:40,180
can be 99.9% sure of. 
And so the guy who's lore this 

426
00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:43,140
applies to it's it applies to 
Danny who's chapter who's had 

427
00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:44,260
one or two chapters by this 
point. 

428
00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:46,960
But it also applies to John 
who's the one interrupting. 

429
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,480
So that's really neat. 
And yeah, and Nina points out 

430
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,240
that the the the point about 
Tyrion being duly grateful for 

431
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,520
the burning there, the outcome 
of the battle, right. 

432
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,400
Also, John should be duly 
grateful cuz the Agon lived long

433
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,040
enough to Cyrus son and become 
John's remote ancestor as well. 

434
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,760
So those both John and Tyrion 
would be grateful if they knew 

435
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,650
the full story there. 
All right, so actual camp, let's

436
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:18,690
bring it back to the timeline of
right before the field of fire 

437
00:22:18,690 --> 00:22:21,610
rather than during John and 
Tyrigan's walk to the wall. 

438
00:22:22,450 --> 00:22:24,970
The campaign begins. 
And here we have another quote 

439
00:22:25,050 --> 00:22:28,610
of just that. 
The two Great Western kings had 

440
00:22:28,610 --> 00:22:32,730
made common cause and assembled 
their own armies, intent on 

441
00:22:32,730 --> 00:22:35,930
putting an end to egg on for 
good and all. 

442
00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:41,010
From High Garden marched Merne, 
the 9th of House Gardener, King 

443
00:22:41,010 --> 00:22:43,170
of the Reach, with a mighty 
host. 

444
00:22:43,540 --> 00:22:47,340
Beneath the walls of Castle 
Golden Grove, seat of House 

445
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:51,860
Rowan, he met Lauren, the first 
Lannister King of the Rock, 

446
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:54,900
leading his own host down from 
the Westerlands. 

447
00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:59,740
Together the 2 kings commanded 
the mightiest host ever seen in 

448
00:22:59,740 --> 00:23:07,500
Westeros, an army 55,000 strong 
including some 600 Lords, great 

449
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:11,050
and small. 
And more than 5000 mounted 

450
00:23:11,050 --> 00:23:13,810
Knights. 
Our iron fist, boasted King 

451
00:23:13,810 --> 00:23:16,490
Merne. 
His four sons rode beside him 

452
00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:20,690
and both of his young grandsons 
attended him as Squires for 

453
00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:22,210
once. 
Like I said, or we've said a few

454
00:23:22,210 --> 00:23:24,450
times, this is an example of 
kings uniting against a common 

455
00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:25,730
foe. 
We don't see it a whole lot. 

456
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:29,490
That for Agon created an 
opportunity to show that yes, 

457
00:23:29,490 --> 00:23:32,370
you bring together all these 
people and I will beat it easily

458
00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:35,650
and that will send a message. 
Shay is gonna put up the map of 

459
00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:37,410
Golden Groves. 
We can see roughly the location 

460
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:38,730
of this. 
Now, we don't know exactly where

461
00:23:38,730 --> 00:23:40,810
the battle take place. 
It's somewhere in the general 

462
00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:44,570
area, Golden near Castle Golden 
Grove, and perhaps it's a little

463
00:23:44,570 --> 00:23:48,450
bit like the Red Grass Field 
where it's just a field. 

464
00:23:48,450 --> 00:23:51,210
It doesn't have a lot of things 
to market as special. 

465
00:23:51,210 --> 00:23:53,930
I'm sure in the short term there
were things to market like 

466
00:23:53,970 --> 00:23:58,570
carnage and bones and pieces of 
metal, but 300 years later you 

467
00:23:58,570 --> 00:24:00,570
can see why. 
Maybe the exact location has 

468
00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:02,570
been lost like it has been for 
some other things. 

469
00:24:02,770 --> 00:24:05,170
Now to be fair, the Red Grass 
Field Blood Raven may have 

470
00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:07,580
manipulated things a little bit 
to keep people from knowing 

471
00:24:07,580 --> 00:24:10,660
where it was because he saw that
people would go there and like 

472
00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:14,500
leave homages to to Damon 
Blackfire and he didn't like 

473
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:18,660
that, so he didn't want people 
like remembering fondly what was

474
00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:20,900
and and and paying their 
respects like that. 

475
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,340
So now I'm not sure that was 
necessarily a problem here, and 

476
00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:25,900
I don't know that Agon was 
worried about them paying homage

477
00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:29,980
to the dead gardeners, but I 
mean it's possible it is 

478
00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:33,020
possible and that might be why 
the the site has been somewhat 

479
00:24:33,020 --> 00:24:34,380
lost. 
I lean towards it. 

480
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:37,150
Just, you know, it was a big 
field, like there's nothing 

481
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:41,150
terribly notable about it other 
than what took place there. 

482
00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:43,870
But in the long run there's no 
physical reminders. 

483
00:24:43,870 --> 00:24:48,350
So yeah, comparing this to other
large armies for scale etcetera,

484
00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:52,750
the the army size was beaten by 
Renley Renley's didn't actually 

485
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:55,270
see battle. 
As I said, now all the regions 

486
00:24:55,270 --> 00:24:58,510
can field larger armies and they
used to because of the conquest,

487
00:24:58,630 --> 00:25:01,030
because of the longer term 
peace, because of lasting peace 

488
00:25:01,030 --> 00:25:04,270
instead of very frequent war 
which was the norm prior to the 

489
00:25:04,270 --> 00:25:06,690
conquest O the overall 
population increased. 

490
00:25:06,690 --> 00:25:11,010
People farms were larger, farms 
were more fertile people, farms 

491
00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:14,010
weren't destroyed as often more 
trade haened. 

492
00:25:14,010 --> 00:25:16,050
Less disruption of resources 
like that. 

493
00:25:16,050 --> 00:25:20,400
Less setbacks, less times where 
half the male population was 

494
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,360
slain and a bunch of the women 
too in because of a war. 

495
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,160
Like just yeah, they're these 
things all like, it's really 

496
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,760
stack. 
Up and investments. 

497
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,640
Longterm plans are more worth 
making or it's more safe to 

498
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,520
decide to build a farm in this 
area, to lend money to buy, you 

499
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,920
know, horses and plows and such 
they need for. 

500
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,540
Farm because you don't expect 
the farm to get attacked by 

501
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:44,900
invaders 2 years later, right? 
You'll your investment will pay 

502
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:46,700
off. 
The farmers want to commit his 

503
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:49,620
life to it, to settle down where
he is and etcetera, etcetera. 

504
00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:52,300
Which again, more farms means 
more food. 

505
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:55,140
Which means because as 
populations grow, you need more 

506
00:25:55,140 --> 00:25:56,140
food too. 
It's true. 

507
00:25:56,460 --> 00:25:59,900
A lot of connecting factors that
war disrupts all of, you know, 

508
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:00,900
every single part of it. 
Yeah. 

509
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:02,220
War. 
It's it's it's the more you 

510
00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:05,540
study the war, the more 
disruptive you realize it is to 

511
00:26:05,540 --> 00:26:07,660
just everything and and 
everyone. 

512
00:26:08,270 --> 00:26:11,150
Even when it's contained to a 
smaller area like the sillover 

513
00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:13,270
factor. 
Yeah, I mean just just think 

514
00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:16,630
about it from a from a vibes 
perspective, just from like your

515
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:19,230
anxiety. 
Just like sitting around going 

516
00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:22,620
when's the next war coming? 
You just know it's gonna happen 

517
00:26:22,620 --> 00:26:24,980
in the back of your mind. 
You just like any day now like 

518
00:26:25,020 --> 00:26:28,420
my whole land could get taken 
away and just everyone killed in

519
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:29,980
the back. 
But under Agon you might have a 

520
00:26:29,980 --> 00:26:32,820
little optimism like well 
actually maybe it's been 10 

521
00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:34,500
years and we haven't had 
anything go wrong. 

522
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,580
Maybe it's too much to hope for 
that to continue. 

523
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:41,910
But maybe, maybe it will and 
yeah so like you say that's the 

524
00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:44,110
kind of financial investment 
you're talking about an 

525
00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:46,990
emotional investment in your own
future and and being able to 

526
00:26:46,990 --> 00:26:51,670
feel like you might have a 
future, whereas you might not 

527
00:26:51,670 --> 00:26:54,310
have felt that way under the the
prior scenarios. 

528
00:26:54,430 --> 00:26:57,830
Rhagar had about 40,000 at the 
Trident for comparison the 

529
00:26:57,830 --> 00:27:02,150
Rebels have less, so not a whole
lot less than 55,000 but but 

530
00:27:02,150 --> 00:27:04,190
still definitely less. 
And that was towards the end of 

531
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:05,110
the war. 
There already been a lot of 

532
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:07,990
battles and and this like that. 
Whereas this was the first 

533
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:11,430
battle not for Agon obviously, 
but the first battle at the West

534
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:12,950
or Reach had fought and the 
only. 

535
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:15,670
So these things were all wrapped
up much quicker. 

536
00:27:15,910 --> 00:27:19,390
Agon himself would have one of 
the next most largest armies 

537
00:27:19,670 --> 00:27:23,310
fielded right after this battle.
Basically all the people that 

538
00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:25,870
conscripted into his army after 
he beat them. 

539
00:27:26,030 --> 00:27:29,870
Plus his existing army added up 
to about 45,000, which he would 

540
00:27:29,870 --> 00:27:34,550
take N to confront Torin, which 
will be getting to pretty 

541
00:27:34,550 --> 00:27:37,320
shortly. 
In our read through here, King 

542
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,520
Merne called it an iron fist, 
our iron fist. 

543
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,840
But like, how useful is a fist 
against a dragon? 

544
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,120
Not it's not. 
It's use, it's useless. 

545
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,480
Like try punching a dragon even 
with a iron fist. 

546
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,160
Not going to help, it's just 
going to be annoyed like. 

547
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,960
If you can even reach it. 
If you can, yeah. 

548
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,630
Can you even get close enough? 
Exactly like this is a very bad 

549
00:27:59,630 --> 00:28:04,790
metaphor, Mr. Mr. Merne. 
Fists don't have much range. 

550
00:28:05,710 --> 00:28:09,390
I mean, it's hard to hit a 
dragon with an arrow like with a

551
00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:12,830
fist. 
Yeah, good luck now, Argal. 

552
00:28:12,830 --> 00:28:15,230
I can see. 
In his arms I said go. 

553
00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:18,710
He's like Inspector Gadget. 
Yeah, like it still doesn't do 

554
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:21,190
much damage, though. 
It's like, hey, stop that, you 

555
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:25,230
can tickle him. 
Like, can you tickle a dragon? 

556
00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:29,290
Margelac had actually come 
fairly close to winning, or at 

557
00:28:29,290 --> 00:28:30,610
least it kind of looked like he 
would. 

558
00:28:30,610 --> 00:28:32,450
Maybe he wasn't really that 
close to winning, but he 

559
00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:35,490
defeated much of the army sent 
against him before finally 

560
00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:40,170
losing when his men came in 
contact with Moraxis and then 

561
00:28:40,170 --> 00:28:43,770
Aris directly. 
So this might have been learned,

562
00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:45,810
the 2 kings might have heard 
about this, and then that might 

563
00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:46,930
have given them a boost of 
confidence. 

564
00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:49,410
Like hey, these guys almost won,
and we have way more men than 

565
00:28:49,410 --> 00:28:51,050
them. 
And we're better, of course, 

566
00:28:51,050 --> 00:28:52,130
because they are. 
They're going to think that 

567
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:54,610
anyway because they're proud of 
their gardeners and Lannisters 

568
00:28:54,610 --> 00:28:58,840
and they've ruled these domains 
for 8000 years. 

569
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,760
They've got the level of pride 
they must have is just we can't 

570
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,520
fathom. 
And that's important because to 

571
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,320
us it's easy to look at what 
they did and think, God, that 

572
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,680
was dumb. 
So we have to kind of wrap our 

573
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,840
heads around why to them, it 
didn't seem so dumb. 

574
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,880
Like what made them think this 
would work? 

575
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,120
What made them think this would 
be successful? 

576
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,640
What made them think it was a 
good idea? 

577
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,040
Or why did they do it blindly 
Anyway, all these things, a lot 

578
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,640
of questions here they could 
think. 

579
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,040
And this is the start of that. 
Well, our Galac was an old man. 

580
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,040
We have more men. 
We have more nights. 

581
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,560
The way they think about war and
the way way Merne was so proud. 

582
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,160
He's like, yeah, we got this 
iron fist. 

583
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,880
He's like the way they think 
about war. 

584
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,260
Nothing like this has ever 
happened before from their side 

585
00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:48,860
not, let alone nothing's ever 
happened like this with Dragons.

586
00:29:48,860 --> 00:29:51,820
But they're thinking about their
own army and like we've got the 

587
00:29:51,820 --> 00:29:55,140
biggest army Westeros has ever 
seen, more nights than anyone's 

588
00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:57,820
ever put together. 
Like, how could we lose the way 

589
00:29:57,820 --> 00:30:01,300
they think about war? 
Numbers are a really important 

590
00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:04,100
thing, especially when you're in
the reach, when numbers are 

591
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:07,060
often your path to victory 
because you have that advantage 

592
00:30:07,060 --> 00:30:09,860
kind of built in because that's 
the the population of the reach 

593
00:30:09,860 --> 00:30:13,060
is the largest. 
So it's the advantage they lean 

594
00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:15,300
on. 
They're used to that being, and 

595
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:16,940
it usually works. 
It's usually going to. 

596
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:19,500
I mean, yes, smaller armies can 
beat larger ones. 

597
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,860
That happens all the time. 
But I don't think that's what's 

598
00:30:23,860 --> 00:30:25,620
in their mind here. 
They're not like, well, maybe he

599
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:27,060
could beat it. 
That's just not how they're. 

600
00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:30,300
Also like small armies beating 
larger ones. 

601
00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:35,060
It's like the 17,000 soldier 
army beat the 22. 

602
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:38,020
Yeah, right. 
Not the 5000 soldier army did 

603
00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:39,820
not beat the 50,000 soldier 
army. 

604
00:30:39,820 --> 00:30:43,630
That doesn't happen, right? 
And and that's what this is 5 to

605
00:30:43,630 --> 00:30:46,870
1 basically you you said 50 to 
10, this is 55 to 11, it's 

606
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:52,670
pretty much the same math. 
And another another factor that 

607
00:30:53,150 --> 00:30:56,470
normally would be to their 
advantage is this open field, 

608
00:30:57,390 --> 00:30:58,910
right? 
Normally that's something that 

609
00:30:58,910 --> 00:31:01,270
all the cavalry that they've 
amassed all the horses. 

610
00:31:01,270 --> 00:31:03,830
Another thing that when you have
more wealth, you have more 

611
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:06,950
horses and Knights, right? 
That is an advantage it's hard 

612
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:11,440
to take advantage of. 
In the the woods, that's true on

613
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,080
a coastal area or a Cliff side 
or in the rain. 

614
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,400
But here we have this open field
and a clear day. 

615
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,400
They don't realize that the same
advantages for their cavalry is 

616
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,440
an advantage for the it's a 
bigger advantage. 

617
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Yeah, they're like all the 
conditions are perfect, but 

618
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,840
they're perfect dir for for the 
Dragons. 

619
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,000
Need to point out something else
that's a really that I hadn't 

620
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,620
thought of. 
Which is, given the way these 

621
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:39,300
other campaigns went, one dragon
per region, the West and the 

622
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:41,500
region might have thought they 
were only going to have to face 

623
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:47,740
one dragon, so whoops. 
And and they might one, even if 

624
00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:51,380
they had to face two, if they 
don't realize how big and 

625
00:31:51,380 --> 00:31:55,260
powerful the Dragons are. 
Because I remember early on when

626
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:57,660
we were discussing this, I 
thought about the idea of like, 

627
00:31:57,660 --> 00:32:01,580
you know, I mean even now we and
and and maybe Agon doesn't. 

628
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:04,470
Fully understand the power of 
dragon, right? 

629
00:32:06,150 --> 00:32:08,390
I mean, George can sort of make 
it whatever he wants, I guess. 

630
00:32:08,390 --> 00:32:10,830
But if there seem to be certain 
parameters that we can sort of 

631
00:32:10,830 --> 00:32:13,830
make sense of and that these 
characters in this world might 

632
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:16,790
have tried to do the same. 
One reason you have big numbers,

633
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:20,470
Dragons aside, is because when 
that first clash comes a punch 

634
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:23,950
of people die and then the next 
wave and then the next wave. 

635
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:27,070
And so if one army can withstand
3 waves and one can withstand 8 

636
00:32:27,070 --> 00:32:29,350
waves, yeah, well, the bigger 
army wins that, right? 

637
00:32:29,470 --> 00:32:31,610
So. 
If the dragon swoops in 

638
00:32:31,610 --> 00:32:35,650
breathing fire and kills, you 
know, 300 soldiers, and then it 

639
00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:38,610
swings around and breathes again
and kills 300 murder soldiers, 

640
00:32:38,610 --> 00:32:41,250
swings around like well, how 
many times can it swing around 

641
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:43,130
and do that? 
Even if we can never hit with an

642
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:46,090
arrow, even if it's totally 
impenetrable, we can't get the 

643
00:32:46,090 --> 00:32:49,010
dragon around. 
Eventually it gets tired, right?

644
00:32:49,330 --> 00:32:53,210
And it might kill 78000 troops 
before he gets tired. 

645
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:56,930
We still have 30,000 more, yeah.
What if they wipe out your whole

646
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:57,530
arm? 
Take. 

647
00:32:58,370 --> 00:33:02,650
Yeah, like they the Dragons 
eventually get tired, The army 

648
00:33:02,650 --> 00:33:04,370
spreads out. 
I can still see how they thought

649
00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:06,210
they might overcome it. 
Yeah, you know, I agree. 

650
00:33:06,650 --> 00:33:08,970
And and there's some examples 
later from the real world that 

651
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,650
I've got when we get to the 
actual battle that also show 

652
00:33:11,650 --> 00:33:15,450
that there's lots of times in 
the real world where it looked 

653
00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:20,210
hopeless and terribly and and 
and a terrible idea to fight and

654
00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:24,270
they did anyway and got 
slaughtered like there's often 

655
00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:27,790
it becomes because of improper 
framing of a new technological 

656
00:33:27,790 --> 00:33:29,750
advancement which isn't a new 
technological advancement. 

657
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:32,470
It's it's just them not being 
used to the it's new to them. 

658
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:34,230
Right. 
The Dragons aren't new but it's 

659
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:38,030
new to the to the western reach.
So yeah so they didn't know and 

660
00:33:38,030 --> 00:33:41,190
to be fair as well no dragon had
destroyed an army to this point 

661
00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:44,070
like Moraxis's didn't destroy 
Oris's army or Argalax army. 

662
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:48,070
That was more of a the rain was 
beating down so hard Moraxis 

663
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:50,560
couldn't take flight. 
The army's kind of just 

664
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,120
destroyed each other slogging it
out through the mud until it 

665
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,280
came to hand to hand. 
And Moraxis was was still really

666
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,400
nasty up close without being 
able to fly. 

667
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,000
But these combined West and 
reach forces had not seen an 

668
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,960
example of a of a dragon or 
multiple Dragons destroying a 

669
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,639
full army. 
Yet they were they were the 

670
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:11,159
example of that. 
And Aegon was happy to to set 

671
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,400
that example because it's like, 
well, if you're going to try 

672
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,840
coming at me with an army less 
than 55,000, like look how easy 

673
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,280
this one was. 
You know what are you going to, 

674
00:34:18,659 --> 00:34:20,620
you're going to really try 30, 
you're going to try 25. 

675
00:34:20,620 --> 00:34:24,580
Like what are your chances, man?
Like do you really want to even 

676
00:34:24,580 --> 00:34:28,739
try? 
So yeah, that's that's a hugely 

677
00:34:28,739 --> 00:34:30,780
important factor. 
And I think Aegon wanted to let 

678
00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:32,739
make sure that was known. 
So we pointed out that making 

679
00:34:32,739 --> 00:34:36,020
that example was a goal for him.
But the optics regarding 

680
00:34:36,020 --> 00:34:38,659
leadership was much different 
here, much different. 

681
00:34:39,219 --> 00:34:43,620
Heron was the big bully on the 
block and new blood on the 

682
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:46,690
block. 
The Hore dynasty hadn't been 

683
00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:50,570
around for 8000 years as kings. 
The house probably had been 

684
00:34:50,570 --> 00:34:53,210
around a long time, maybe even 
8000 years, but they weren't 

685
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:59,010
famous Westeros wide for being 
kings for so long. 

686
00:34:59,010 --> 00:35:02,290
So. 
And we know how the Country Club

687
00:35:02,290 --> 00:35:05,330
of Westeros functions in a 
sense, in that the older the 

688
00:35:05,330 --> 00:35:07,890
blood, the more value it seems 
to have to them. 

689
00:35:07,890 --> 00:35:11,610
So that the Horrors don't have 
that sort of ancient nobility 

690
00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:14,170
going for them in the same sense
that the Gardeners and 

691
00:35:14,170 --> 00:35:16,410
Lannisters do. 
Really, no one had that like the

692
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:18,250
Gardeners. 
The Gardeners were the tip top 

693
00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:24,130
of all the qualities that makes 
Noble Blood great in Westeros. 

694
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:25,900
They had it all. 
It's the oldest. 

695
00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:28,180
It's the one that so many other 
ones descend from. 

696
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:30,420
They get to put themselves at 
the top of that pyramid and then

697
00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:33,340
most everyone agrees with them. 
You know, they even try to claim

698
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:36,740
that Brandon the Builder came 
from their lines. 

699
00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:39,660
So they've really got an 
argument for almost everyone. 

700
00:35:39,660 --> 00:35:40,780
Like, yeah, everyone came from 
us. 

701
00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:44,780
So yeah, and they're popular. 
That's another factor. 

702
00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:47,900
Like, the gardeners had kept 
stability. 

703
00:35:48,340 --> 00:35:51,020
They were pretty well regarded. 
They may not have been like 

704
00:35:51,390 --> 00:35:53,710
popular like the Starks, but 
they were. 

705
00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:57,350
They're pretty well regarded, 
and that counts for a lot. 

706
00:35:57,350 --> 00:36:01,590
And same with the Lannisters. 
So it's not like, yay, you took 

707
00:36:01,590 --> 00:36:04,750
out Heron will gladly join you 
for that. 

708
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:09,950
No one in the reach flipped to 
join Aegon ahead of time. 

709
00:36:10,110 --> 00:36:13,230
No one in the West flipped to 
join Aegon ahead of time. 

710
00:36:13,230 --> 00:36:16,110
No one said you know what, I 
want to be on the winning side. 

711
00:36:16,110 --> 00:36:18,470
No, they all stayed loyal as far
as we know. 

712
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:21,070
We don't have a single example 
otherwise and that is different.

713
00:36:21,070 --> 00:36:25,150
Even in in Stormland like 
Argalac had defections before 

714
00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:29,030
the campaign even began, before 
war was even declared. 

715
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:32,070
Some of those Lords of the of 
the narrow sea were showing up 

716
00:36:32,070 --> 00:36:34,830
at Agons council meetings and 
and shunning Argalacs. 

717
00:36:35,470 --> 00:36:39,510
So that by itself shows an 
example of the level of loyalty 

718
00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:42,830
that was in play here and why 
the political situation was much

719
00:36:42,830 --> 00:36:44,940
different. 
You can't just take out these 

720
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:46,980
kings and expect everyone to 
fall in line. 

721
00:36:46,980 --> 00:36:49,700
Well, you kind of can, but you 
have to do it right. 

722
00:36:50,620 --> 00:36:52,140
Depends on the nature of how you
take, right. 

723
00:36:52,140 --> 00:36:54,020
You have to take them all out 
which is what he did, right. 

724
00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:56,220
You could if you could leave a 
one or two gardeners then they 

725
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:58,380
might try to rally around that 
one gardener and be like well 

726
00:36:58,380 --> 00:37:00,860
this is the family that's led us
for 8000 years we're going to 

727
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:02,860
stick with them. 
What happens when there's no 

728
00:37:02,860 --> 00:37:05,460
gardeners left or only female 
gardeners left as we'll get to 

729
00:37:05,460 --> 00:37:08,460
cuz there had to be some. 
They don't get mentioned. 

730
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:11,300
So that's that's a problem. 
But we'll we'll that's some of 

731
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:12,580
the reading between the lines we
have to do. 

732
00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:14,350
But we'll get to that in the 
second-half. 

733
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:19,550
So that's why he would have just
preferred them to bend the knee.

734
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:23,230
Cuz they already have this love 
and this following. 

735
00:37:23,230 --> 00:37:26,790
If they bend the knee to him 
then everyone else follows suit 

736
00:37:27,230 --> 00:37:28,510
right? 
And they're like okay, well if 

737
00:37:28,510 --> 00:37:30,710
the gardeners bend the knee and 
then so will we and then it's 

738
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:33,030
just it's nice and smooth and 
clean and no one dies. 

739
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:35,310
No fields get burned. 
But of course that's not what 

740
00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:37,470
happened. 
The submission would have to 

741
00:37:37,470 --> 00:37:41,940
take war to determine. 
Nina writes that Aegon's 

742
00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:44,140
decision with the Field of Fire 
is interesting from a 

743
00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:47,700
geopolitical perspective because
he's setting out with the intent

744
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:50,940
to, if not have them bend the 
knee, then to annihilate them. 

745
00:37:50,940 --> 00:37:52,740
They either can bend the knee or
die. 

746
00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:56,220
The two most ancient and well 
established dynasties in 

747
00:37:56,220 --> 00:37:58,380
Westeros. 
Aegon had every reason to expect

748
00:37:58,380 --> 00:38:01,620
that with Merne and Lauren 
personally leading the armies, 

749
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,660
which would have really rung 
bells in his mind like, oh, 

750
00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:05,940
they're both leading the army. 
So that gives me a chance to 

751
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,880
kill them on the field of battle
rather than to execute them more

752
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,320
to do something more unsavory 
later, let alone like what 

753
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,240
Visenia will say about Castilly 
Rock later. 

754
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:18,360
And like ooh, I'm glad they bent
the knee and I don't want to 

755
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,200
have to deal with that castle 
Woo. 

756
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,050
So yeah, that might have, that 
might have gotten ugly, in other

757
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:26,090
words. 
And that's not what a gun won. 

758
00:38:26,090 --> 00:38:29,170
And he didn't want to show that 
this castle would slow him down.

759
00:38:29,170 --> 00:38:32,490
You know, I wanted to dominate. 
These weren't violent tyrants 

760
00:38:32,490 --> 00:38:34,210
who were unpopular. 
These weren't brutes who had 

761
00:38:34,210 --> 00:38:37,370
enslaved people. 
These were not followers of some

762
00:38:38,970 --> 00:38:42,250
dark religion that most of 
Westeros thought of as like 

763
00:38:42,250 --> 00:38:43,850
demons. 
Like, of course I'm referring to

764
00:38:43,850 --> 00:38:46,290
the Drowned God. 
No, these are people who not 

765
00:38:46,290 --> 00:38:49,490
only worship the Seven like most
of Westeros, but are considered 

766
00:38:49,490 --> 00:38:54,990
pretty high up in regard and in 
terms of like hierarchy, like 

767
00:38:54,990 --> 00:38:58,310
the Gardeners. 
And the High Towers, of course, 

768
00:38:58,630 --> 00:39:04,590
have kind of a lockdown on the 
Faith of the Seven in terms of 

769
00:39:04,590 --> 00:39:08,630
being having a lot of indirect 
soft power, even a little bit of

770
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:13,070
hard power over the Faith. 
Now, of course, as we discussed 

771
00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:16,940
in our Under the Dragons 
episode, High Towers didn't show

772
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:19,060
U in the field of Fire, and 
that's a pretty big deal and a 

773
00:39:19,060 --> 00:39:21,260
big separate discussion. 
But it wouldn't have helped if 

774
00:39:21,260 --> 00:39:22,420
they had. 
I don't like what one oh, oh, 

775
00:39:22,420 --> 00:39:23,620
oh, oh, more men. 
Well, that wouldn't have made 

776
00:39:23,620 --> 00:39:25,100
any difference. 
Like, Right. 

777
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:29,430
No, please, no. 
They made the right call, and I 

778
00:39:29,470 --> 00:39:31,430
will. 
Say the way it might have helped

779
00:39:31,470 --> 00:39:34,870
if they've if they had deployed 
10,000 men somewhere else, OK, 

780
00:39:35,070 --> 00:39:38,110
they sent 10,000 men to the 
Crown lands or whatever, you 

781
00:39:38,110 --> 00:39:40,190
know, that's a good point If 
they rather than just, I don't. 

782
00:39:40,190 --> 00:39:41,910
Know if they would have smart 
enough to do that if they did 

783
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:43,910
show up, but that's the way that
could have made it. 

784
00:39:44,030 --> 00:39:44,470
I agree. 
Yeah. 

785
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:46,310
If they had done it, if they 
deployed their men differently, 

786
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:47,750
this is the worst thing they 
could have done. 

787
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:50,950
Putting them all in one place 
where the fire can get them 

788
00:39:51,150 --> 00:39:53,950
easily is. 
Yeah, as we see in The Dance of 

789
00:39:53,950 --> 00:39:58,390
the Dragons, no one does this. 
No one forms huge ass armies and

790
00:39:58,390 --> 00:40:01,270
takes them to the field because 
everyone knows by that era. 

791
00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,070
It's a terrible idea when 
there's Dragons about. 

792
00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:08,670
The era of large armies returns 
when the Dragons are gone right?

793
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:12,430
The big armies that like go into
Dorn to conquer Dorn in the era 

794
00:40:12,430 --> 00:40:17,110
of King Daron the First, that's 
getting back into the the size 

795
00:40:17,110 --> 00:40:19,550
armies that existed prior to the
Dragons. 

796
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:24,300
Like once once the word got out.
You don't put 3040 thousand men 

797
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:26,100
in the field when they could all
just get cooked. 

798
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:28,820
It's just a terrible idea. 
You go smaller, you go 5000 

799
00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:31,460
here, 3000 here, 8000 here, 
maybe even smaller. 

800
00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:34,980
And scatter, don't be all in one
place, because there's only so 

801
00:40:34,980 --> 00:40:36,740
many Dragons. 
And that's even more true now 

802
00:40:36,740 --> 00:40:38,980
than it was than it is during 
the dance when there's actually 

803
00:40:38,980 --> 00:40:42,210
quite a few Dragons. 
But yeah, so if they'd used a 

804
00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:44,610
strategy like that, yeah, I 
would have given a gun fits. 

805
00:40:44,610 --> 00:40:47,730
The strategy that Doran does use
does give them fits and ends up 

806
00:40:47,730 --> 00:40:50,490
working pretty darn well. 
It's still very destructive, but

807
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:52,490
it was a path to victory. 
And it worked. 

808
00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:54,970
May have been the only path to 
victory, but it's not one that 

809
00:40:54,970 --> 00:40:59,090
was perceived by either the West
or the reach, at least not by 

810
00:40:59,090 --> 00:41:00,770
people in power, not by people 
in charge. 

811
00:41:00,770 --> 00:41:03,250
So yeah, really, really 
different. 

812
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:04,810
So a gun has to play it 
delicately. 

813
00:41:04,810 --> 00:41:07,090
He either has to wipe them out 
so that there's no rallying 

814
00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:10,950
behind the survivors, or he has 
to beat them so convincingly 

815
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:13,030
that they bend the knee and then
the rest fall. 

816
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:16,350
Or, who knows, it could end up 
being a really. 

817
00:41:16,350 --> 00:41:19,230
It could end up being like what 
Doran becomes, which is Aegon 

818
00:41:19,230 --> 00:41:21,310
probably perceived that was 
possible for any of these 

819
00:41:21,310 --> 00:41:23,870
particular regions. 
Maybe some more than others. 

820
00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:27,710
Maybe the people of the Reach 
just don't have it in them to 

821
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:33,490
behave like the Darnish, but 
still, Aegon doesn't necessarily

822
00:41:33,490 --> 00:41:35,290
know that for sure. 
He wouldn't want to take any 

823
00:41:35,290 --> 00:41:37,890
chances necessarily. 
Make a quick comment to just 

824
00:41:38,050 --> 00:41:41,970
thinking about the idea of how 
one prepared they were how they 

825
00:41:41,970 --> 00:41:45,810
just didn't understand what they
needed to do in this scenario 

826
00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:48,530
it's it's not you know there's 
and we're different reasons 

827
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:51,290
might be a little bit of naivete
a little bit of pride a little 

828
00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:54,090
bit of you know I don't know 
lack of planning and you got to 

829
00:41:54,090 --> 00:41:57,530
wonder too if and all the scores
of people involved in the 

830
00:41:57,530 --> 00:41:59,930
leadership there might have been
a few guys in there is like. 

831
00:42:00,430 --> 00:42:02,710
I don't know about this know 
about those dragon. 

832
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:04,030
Like maybe we should spread you 
know. 

833
00:42:04,030 --> 00:42:07,750
But maybe they weren't senior 
influential enough or they were 

834
00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:11,150
looked at as cowardly to and I'm
pretty sure in World War 2 that 

835
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:14,790
there was a when the Germans 
were just coming across France 

836
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:17,950
and France just wasn't used to 
the rate that the tanks and 

837
00:42:17,950 --> 00:42:20,950
planes were plus the Germans 
were like on methamphetamines 

838
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:21,910
going through the night and 
stuff. 

839
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:25,190
They were just progressing 
faster than anyone guessed and. 

840
00:42:26,410 --> 00:42:29,050
And eventually they promoted up 
this young he. 

841
00:42:29,050 --> 00:42:30,930
He might have been a Colonel, 
but they put him in charge of 

842
00:42:30,930 --> 00:42:33,610
the whole army. 
This young guy that said, like I

843
00:42:33,610 --> 00:42:37,530
can, I know how to handle this. 
All these old generals from the 

844
00:42:37,570 --> 00:42:40,690
old days, literally riding 
horses, they just don't 

845
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:41,890
understand. 
I've got a plan. 

846
00:42:41,890 --> 00:42:44,010
And they're like, all right, 
after all those generals fail, 

847
00:42:44,010 --> 00:42:46,900
they put him in charge. 
And he died in a car accident 

848
00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:48,980
and his plans were lost. 
What? 

849
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:50,620
Germany took over. 
I didn't know about that. 

850
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:52,940
I knew about everything. 
All that lead up I knew about 

851
00:42:52,940 --> 00:42:56,140
the fact that France was just 
they were my perfect example of 

852
00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:57,980
just not adapting to Modern 
Warfare. 

853
00:42:57,980 --> 00:43:01,020
You got machine guns now which 
were new and France kept doing 

854
00:43:01,340 --> 00:43:05,660
old style charges into machine 
gunfire and just 10s of 

855
00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:07,620
thousands of soldiers would get 
mowed down. 

856
00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:09,140
This is World War One. 
I know part of your. 

857
00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:11,340
As well, yeah, you're talking 
about World War 2, some of it. 

858
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:13,780
But yeah, same same difference 
and there. 

859
00:43:14,910 --> 00:43:16,630
And it took. 
It's like, what are you doing? 

860
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:18,910
Don't just charge machine guns. 
Stop it. 

861
00:43:19,230 --> 00:43:20,710
And be feared, the Germans were 
doing it too. 

862
00:43:20,990 --> 00:43:23,310
Everyone was doing it. 
No one was adjusting, yeah. 

863
00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:26,190
So when you all are like. 
Makeable casualties. 

864
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:28,630
If you think about this as being
unrealistic, like, why would 

865
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:30,790
they charge back? 
No, it's it's completely 

866
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:32,950
supported by real war. 
Examples of real war. 

867
00:43:32,990 --> 00:43:34,670
Even felt rarely, typically 
recent. 

868
00:43:34,670 --> 00:43:37,270
That's only 100 years ago or 
110. 

869
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:40,990
Yeah, so people do ward. 
People do. 

870
00:43:40,990 --> 00:43:44,430
Just takes a few naive, stubborn
people in charge. 

871
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,320
Of thousands of people in your 
army to give them some bad 

872
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,080
orders. 
And in all, a bunch of people 

873
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,440
who were trying to be loyal and 
do what they're told, do it, and

874
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,240
then gets everyone killed. 
Did you remember the movie 

875
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:56,600
Kingdom of Heaven? 
They. 

876
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:57,320
Lando Bloom. 
I. 

877
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,360
Remember they had a bunch of 
Game of Thrones star. 

878
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,600
It did. 
It had quite a few. 

879
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,520
It had it featured you know like
near the after the Crusades. 

880
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,840
And it featured one, really. 
One of the important characters 

881
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,040
was a knight who sworn to the 
king and they all marched into 

882
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,680
the desert to confront Saladin. 
And he's like, one of the guys 

883
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,200
is like, why are you doing that?
You're going into the desert 

884
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,960
where they're like, it's like 
their home field advantage is 

885
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,480
stupid. 
And he's like, yeah, it's 

886
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,280
stupid, but I I follow the king.
Like you don't disobey your 

887
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,920
king, like, period. 
And then like, you know like 

888
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,920
next the half an hour later 
this, he finds his head. 

889
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,560
He knows like, oh, that guy's 
dead now. 

890
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,040
And like, he followed his king 
into absolute foolish death. 

891
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,870
But that's what they do. 
Yeah. 

892
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:41,590
It's hard to wrap our modern 
heads around that level of 

893
00:44:41,590 --> 00:44:44,470
loyalty sometimes. 
Like maybe some of you can do 

894
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:45,790
it, but I have a hard time with 
that. 

895
00:44:45,790 --> 00:44:47,230
But it's real. 
It's very real. 

896
00:44:47,550 --> 00:44:50,590
So it's real. 
And I have no trouble thinking 

897
00:44:50,590 --> 00:44:53,870
of it in terms of Westeros. 
Which you have. 

898
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:56,350
I have more trouble thinking in 
terms of stupid humans. 

899
00:44:56,390 --> 00:45:01,390
Yeah, shout out. 
Speaking of not stupid humans, 

900
00:45:01,390 --> 00:45:04,390
our good friend Tkok podcast 
network, that's Tommy Pappas, 

901
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:05,750
sends a super chat says love. 
Y'all. 

902
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:09,950
Well, we love you too, buddy. 
Thanks for the love and let's 

903
00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:13,790
keep at it here. 
Let's talk our next moment here 

904
00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:16,350
in the preparation for the 
battle on the March. 

905
00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:19,070
Here's a quote. 
The two kings did not linger 

906
00:45:19,070 --> 00:45:22,150
long at Golden Grove. 
A host of such size must remain 

907
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:25,110
on the March less to eat the 
surrounding countryside bear. 

908
00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:28,310
The Allies set out at once 
marching north by northeast 

909
00:45:28,350 --> 00:45:30,470
through tall grasses and golden 
fields of wheat. 

910
00:45:30,670 --> 00:45:34,310
That is another reason why large
armies are rarer because of the 

911
00:45:34,510 --> 00:45:39,070
amount of food they require all 
in one place where in a 

912
00:45:39,070 --> 00:45:42,510
distribution and logistics 
become a big issue once again. 

913
00:45:42,510 --> 00:45:44,780
Rent. 
They gotta poop. 

914
00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:47,700
Yeah, it's easy to overlook 
that. 

915
00:45:47,700 --> 00:45:50,060
But I'm telling is a real thing.
It's got to be dealt with. 

916
00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:52,260
50,000 people. 
Well, this is a lot of, it's 

917
00:45:52,260 --> 00:45:53,580
more people than that too, 
right? 

918
00:45:53,580 --> 00:45:56,500
Sean, this is 55,000 soldiers. 
How many like other? 

919
00:45:56,500 --> 00:46:00,780
People, certain, accompanying, 
you know, armors and cooks and 

920
00:46:00,780 --> 00:46:04,300
everything else like Drogo's. 
Kalisar is 100,000 people. 

921
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:06,860
That's another good example. 
40,000 of them are warriors, is 

922
00:46:06,860 --> 00:46:09,040
what we're told so and that's 
that's a. 

923
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,520
Really important culture. 
They wouldn't have as much of 

924
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,200
support, you know, I guess all 
the family and kids are coming. 

925
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,520
That's probably not happening 
with this Westeros army, right? 

926
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,080
Some, some small, some families 
come, but not too many. 

927
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,280
You know, like there's camp 
followers and people who don't 

928
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,720
have a place to live and your 
children that are born on the 

929
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:30,600
March and yeah, cooks and and 
grooms and and Squires and 

930
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,320
Squires might be counted as part
of the army. 

931
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,120
That's that's a Gray area. 
But anyway, yeah, Renly's huge 

932
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,880
host is is one of our best 
examples. 

933
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,880
Again, because we actually see 
this. 

934
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,960
We see how they have to keep 
moving because of the same 

935
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,640
reason you can't just take 
100,000 people around and and 

936
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,840
stay in one place. 
Like if you've ever been to like

937
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,280
a music festival, you can 
that's. 

938
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,680
Yeah, that's a great example. 
Like how could you possibly like

939
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,650
that they all the food that gets
consumed like the concessions 

940
00:46:58,650 --> 00:47:01,370
and once again I'm the how full 
the porta potties get Sean to 

941
00:47:01,370 --> 00:47:03,850
your point like it's. 
Just just think about how long 

942
00:47:03,850 --> 00:47:06,290
it would take to fill up 50,000 
water bottles. 

943
00:47:07,050 --> 00:47:08,530
Just think about the logistics 
of that. 

944
00:47:08,570 --> 00:47:11,130
And they're going to use more 
than one water bottle a day of 

945
00:47:11,130 --> 00:47:12,410
when it's that hot. 
Yeah, you. 

946
00:47:12,490 --> 00:47:14,490
Got to keep doing it day after 
day. 

947
00:47:14,490 --> 00:47:17,290
It's a huge thing that you get 
so overlooked at what it takes 

948
00:47:17,290 --> 00:47:18,490
to move around an army like 
that. 

949
00:47:18,610 --> 00:47:23,410
Here is the next quote, which 
refers to Aegon hearing about 

950
00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:25,730
what's going on and his own 
counter move. 

951
00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:30,870
Advised of their coming in his 
camp beside the God's eye, Aegon

952
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:34,390
gathered his own strength in 
advance to meet these new foes. 

953
00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:39,270
He commanded only 1/5 as many 
men as the two Kings, and much 

954
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:42,830
of his strength was made-up of 
men sworn to the River Lords, 

955
00:47:42,990 --> 00:47:47,470
whose loyalty to House Targaryen
was of recent vintage and 

956
00:47:47,470 --> 00:47:51,310
untested. 
With the smaller host, however, 

957
00:47:51,550 --> 00:47:55,030
Aegon was able to move much more
quickly than his foes. 

958
00:47:55,570 --> 00:47:59,890
At the town of Stony Sept, both 
his Queens joined him with their

959
00:47:59,890 --> 00:48:04,570
Dragons, Rainey's from Storm's 
End and Vasenia from Cracklaw 

960
00:48:04,610 --> 00:48:08,810
Point, where she had accepted 
many fervent pledges of fealty 

961
00:48:08,810 --> 00:48:12,690
from the local Lords. 
Together the three Targaryens 

962
00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:17,090
watched from the sky as Aegon's 
army crossed the headwaters of 

963
00:48:17,090 --> 00:48:22,130
Blackwater Rush and raced S We 
discussed Vasenia Cracklaw Point

964
00:48:22,170 --> 00:48:25,930
in our last episode or in our 
last regular episode, and of 

965
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:29,970
course we discussed Rainy's at 
Storm's End in our Patrons and 

966
00:48:29,970 --> 00:48:32,570
Supporters episode of The Battle
of Last Storm. 

967
00:48:33,410 --> 00:48:36,170
Agan clearly wanted to move 
fast, and he knew he needed all 

968
00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:40,610
three Dragons. 
This is some contact clearly 

969
00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:43,450
happened. 
He sent letters, probably by 

970
00:48:43,450 --> 00:48:47,770
Raven to his sisters, maybe by 
Horse Messenger, since there 

971
00:48:47,970 --> 00:48:50,610
might might have been inside 
castles that could be reached at

972
00:48:50,610 --> 00:48:52,090
the time. 
But one way or another, the 

973
00:48:52,090 --> 00:48:55,450
messages were sent. 
He probably already knew about 

974
00:48:55,450 --> 00:48:59,010
King Torrin. 
He probably wanted to defeat the

975
00:48:59,450 --> 00:49:04,130
host of West and Reach before 
King Torrin and maybe wanted to 

976
00:49:04,130 --> 00:49:06,130
avoid it. 
The potential of it becoming an 

977
00:49:06,130 --> 00:49:11,930
alliance of three kings, because
if it does become multiple foes 

978
00:49:11,930 --> 00:49:15,570
allied against and then they 
might kind of find themselves 

979
00:49:15,570 --> 00:49:19,090
just naturally going to the 
strategy that you discuss, Sean,

980
00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:22,320
which is attacking multiple 
targets, going to different 

981
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,000
places and starting more of a 
traditional campaign where you 

982
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,040
attack each other's lands and 
bring castles back over from one

983
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,040
side to another. 
This was of course, not a very 

984
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,520
traditional campaign to this 
point. 

985
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,880
And that is a big part of why 
Westeros did so poorly against 

986
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:40,120
the Targaryens. 
Because their strategies were 

987
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,440
bad. 
They're very bad. 

988
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,640
Very bad, bad, bad bad bad. 
And Agon seemed to have known 

989
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,680
that they would use bad 
strategies, which made his 

990
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,400
strategies even more dominating.
He had superior military power 

991
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,400
and superior strategies. 
So really, yeah, like I said, 

992
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,520
it's not the the outcomes of 
these battles or the actual 

993
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,320
battles themselves that makes 
this stuff interesting. 

994
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,300
It's the before and after. 
Let's talk about how they set up

995
00:50:07,460 --> 00:50:09,460
before the battle. 
I call this playing the field. 

996
00:50:09,980 --> 00:50:12,180
Here's the first quote. 
The two armies came together 

997
00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:16,100
amongst a wide open plains South
of the Black Water, near to 

998
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:19,860
where the Gold Rd. would one day
run. 2 Kings rejoice when their 

999
00:50:19,860 --> 00:50:22,380
scouts returned to them and 
reported Targaryen numbers and 

1000
00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:25,220
dispositions. 
They had five men for every one 

1001
00:50:25,220 --> 00:50:27,820
of Aegons, it seemed, and the 
disparity in Lords and Knights 

1002
00:50:27,820 --> 00:50:30,580
was even greater. 
And the land was wide and open, 

1003
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:33,020
all grass and wheat as far as 
the eye could see. 

1004
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:34,970
Ideal for heavy. 
That's what you were saying 

1005
00:50:34,970 --> 00:50:36,890
earlier Sean. 
How they were like man it's all 

1006
00:50:36,890 --> 00:50:40,850
coming up to kings. 
So he's got our map up. 

1007
00:50:40,850 --> 00:50:43,090
Shout out to Michael Clarfeld 
for this great map that we 

1008
00:50:43,090 --> 00:50:45,330
always use. 
She has got this area kind of 

1009
00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:47,810
shaded in gold. 
This is roughly the area we're 

1010
00:50:47,810 --> 00:50:49,130
talking about. 
We don't know exactly where the 

1011
00:50:49,130 --> 00:50:52,850
battle was fought like I said, 
but it's generally in this area 

1012
00:50:52,850 --> 00:50:55,170
as you can see not that far from
Stoney Sept. 

1013
00:50:55,170 --> 00:50:57,290
You can see that up the north, 
up up just north of where the 

1014
00:50:57,290 --> 00:50:59,570
Gold Rd. is on the Gold Rd. is 
on the map. 

1015
00:50:59,570 --> 00:51:02,630
But as quote reminds us, the 
Gold Rd. did not exist at this 

1016
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:08,190
point and there is not that far.
We're not that far from King's 

1017
00:51:08,190 --> 00:51:10,270
Landing. 
We're not that far from a lot of

1018
00:51:10,270 --> 00:51:12,230
other notable spots. 
You can see Golden Grove there 

1019
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:16,470
to the southwest where the 2 
kings first met and you can see 

1020
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:19,270
the God's eye. 
So not super far from Heron 

1021
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:22,990
Hall. 
And this is, like I said, if 

1022
00:51:22,990 --> 00:51:26,950
more time had had come or more 
time had elapsed, it may have 

1023
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:30,300
been that the Stark army could 
have moved South and and merged 

1024
00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:33,980
with the army of the West and 
reach, which might have actually

1025
00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:35,820
given a gun some trouble, 
especially if they were coming 

1026
00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:37,740
from multiple directions or 
things like that. 

1027
00:51:37,740 --> 00:51:40,420
Yeah. 
Wouldn't have marched so cleanly

1028
00:51:40,420 --> 00:51:42,060
into a trap if it had gone that 
way. 

1029
00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:43,980
But effectively they did March 
into a trap. 

1030
00:51:43,980 --> 00:51:45,300
That's. 
Another thing I wonder about 

1031
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:48,940
too, we talked about a guns 
different sorts of superiority 

1032
00:51:48,940 --> 00:51:51,580
that he had. 
He would have had superior 

1033
00:51:51,580 --> 00:51:54,460
intelligence, see the Dragons 
flying around in the sky, could 

1034
00:51:54,460 --> 00:51:56,960
see those armies forming up, 
that's true. 

1035
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,560
Weeks in advance and and know 
the general directions that they

1036
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,000
were coming from and they you 
know I I bet he coordinated. 

1037
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,880
Was it a coincidence? 
I don't think that this battle 

1038
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,640
happened at this field. 
I think that he knew that would 

1039
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,360
be weird. 
He think he one, they would 

1040
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,080
think they had an advantage and 
he knew they did. 

1041
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:15,600
They would. 
It's like he's like, actually 

1042
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:16,920
they're wrong. 
That's a great point, Sean. 

1043
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,760
Yeah, he knew. 
He knew what type of ground 

1044
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,170
they'd be looking for, and he 
was all all happy to let them 

1045
00:52:22,170 --> 00:52:23,850
have it. 
So I think you're right that he 

1046
00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:24,930
may. 
He knows like the general 

1047
00:52:24,930 --> 00:52:27,650
direction are coming from where 
the armies are forming up, what 

1048
00:52:27,650 --> 00:52:31,090
roads they would take, and the 
the direction are coming All 

1049
00:52:31,090 --> 00:52:34,890
right, what in the middle is 
ideal on that route? 

1050
00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:37,090
Where should we? 
Yeah, I like that A. 

1051
00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:40,330
And I wouldn't even be surprised
if they lured the scouts to that

1052
00:52:40,330 --> 00:52:42,930
spot purposefully. 
Or maybe the maybe his he 

1053
00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:45,490
conferred with the Lord of 
Stoney Sept or some other local 

1054
00:52:45,490 --> 00:52:48,220
Lords there and that who knew 
the region were like, oh, this 

1055
00:52:48,220 --> 00:52:49,580
is where you're going to want to
let them go. 

1056
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:51,740
Like you're trying to trap them 
in a big open field that they 

1057
00:52:51,740 --> 00:52:54,660
think is going to help them. 
Here's the spot and we'll show 

1058
00:52:54,660 --> 00:52:56,180
you. 
You know, and. 

1059
00:52:56,180 --> 00:52:59,340
Goes back to my thought of him, 
like bringing Matt Baker's back 

1060
00:52:59,340 --> 00:53:02,460
to King's Landing or Dragonstone
or whatever. 

1061
00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:05,220
Like those same Matt makers 
would have so much insights for 

1062
00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:06,980
them and they would gain so much
more insights by getting a 

1063
00:53:06,980 --> 00:53:08,500
flying or dragon just one time 
like. 

1064
00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:11,900
I asked Reshawn the first time 
you said Map maker. 

1065
00:53:12,100 --> 00:53:15,260
You said map Baker is what I 
heard and I like. 

1066
00:53:15,460 --> 00:53:18,860
Make sure you love things like 
hot pies, designing maps out of 

1067
00:53:18,860 --> 00:53:21,980
bread. 
I would eat that. 

1068
00:53:22,540 --> 00:53:27,980
Half the map's been eaten. 
We don't know, damn it. 

1069
00:53:27,980 --> 00:53:34,230
Don't make maps out of bread. 
It's foolish, yeah. 

1070
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:36,830
Nina wonders if there's any, if 
there were any residual effects 

1071
00:53:36,830 --> 00:53:40,830
on the area afterwards, like the
the way that in Dorn we we hear 

1072
00:53:40,830 --> 00:53:45,110
that some of the burnings were 
so severe that sands turned 

1073
00:53:45,110 --> 00:53:47,750
glass in some spots. 
I don't know if it would be 

1074
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:50,710
quite that bad here, but you 
might have some semi permanent 

1075
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:53,350
or at least long lasting 
something that like remained for

1076
00:53:53,350 --> 00:53:56,950
a century afterwards. 
Very possible. 

1077
00:53:56,950 --> 00:54:01,270
Like like minor level fallout. 
You know, the heat could have 

1078
00:54:01,270 --> 00:54:03,620
been such and so intense that. 
I don't know. 

1079
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:05,220
Yeah, who knows? 
Who knows what the effects of 

1080
00:54:05,220 --> 00:54:08,340
dragon fire are long term, but I
could see it being more than 

1081
00:54:08,340 --> 00:54:13,100
just a generation or so. 
Worth noting that the Dragons in

1082
00:54:13,300 --> 00:54:16,700
the field of fire might not have
had to get so close and burn so 

1083
00:54:16,700 --> 00:54:18,100
hot. 
They just set the grass all 

1084
00:54:18,100 --> 00:54:21,020
around them on fire, you know? 
But sure, it's not the actual 

1085
00:54:21,020 --> 00:54:24,340
dragon flame burning, it's the 
burning field, but some of them.

1086
00:54:24,380 --> 00:54:26,140
Did so you get a little boat? 
Yeah, some of them got the 

1087
00:54:26,140 --> 00:54:28,980
actual scorching. 
Now you wonder too, if, like he 

1088
00:54:28,980 --> 00:54:31,300
said, they found this spot. 
They were like, oh, look, they 

1089
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:35,360
have less men. 
Was this partly bait? 

1090
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,920
Was it like, we put our guys in 
a spot, We knew they would love 

1091
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,200
to fight us, they would be drawn
to this area. 

1092
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,160
But we also know that it's going
to be like a hot box, that we 

1093
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,320
can contain them. 
And maybe they kept their 

1094
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,800
Dragons a little back. 
Remember we alluded earlier to 

1095
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,680
the fact that maybe they thought
they were only going to face one

1096
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,190
dragon. 
So maybe if maybe they even 

1097
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:56,350
concealed even all of them. 
And so they were like we saw the

1098
00:54:56,350 --> 00:54:57,670
army, but we didn't see the 
Dragons. 

1099
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:59,270
Maybe now, maybe now's our 
chance. 

1100
00:54:59,270 --> 00:55:01,270
The Dragons aren't here. 
Maybe, only maybe there's one 

1101
00:55:01,270 --> 00:55:03,750
here and we don't see it. 
Maybe they were things to 

1102
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:06,310
increase their overconfidence. 
Like a guns. 

1103
00:55:06,310 --> 00:55:07,830
Like yeah, let's let them feel 
confident. 

1104
00:55:07,830 --> 00:55:09,790
Let's let them feel over. 
Let's let's boost their 

1105
00:55:09,790 --> 00:55:13,950
overconfidence just to make sure
they keep blundering headlong 

1106
00:55:13,950 --> 00:55:15,390
into this trap we've set for 
them. 

1107
00:55:15,390 --> 00:55:18,590
They don't give them any reason 
to rethink things, Give them 

1108
00:55:18,590 --> 00:55:22,620
reasons to confirm what they 
already believe. 

1109
00:55:23,380 --> 00:55:25,820
Because that wasn't, you know, 
according to what we're getting,

1110
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:28,660
you know, from the source 
material, that wasn't part of 

1111
00:55:28,660 --> 00:55:30,380
the reports that scouts bring 
back, right? 

1112
00:55:30,420 --> 00:55:32,380
Like, no mention of the dragon 5
to one. 

1113
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:35,220
Yeah, and even we have even more
horses and cavalry. 

1114
00:55:35,580 --> 00:55:37,660
No mention, no mention. 
I know, that's peculiar, isn't 

1115
00:55:37,660 --> 00:55:39,380
it? 
Like, maybe that's just a given,

1116
00:55:39,380 --> 00:55:41,260
but like you would still like, 
well, which dragon is it? 

1117
00:55:41,260 --> 00:55:42,620
Which of the is it? 
3? 

1118
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:44,020
Is it one? 
Yeah, that you would think that 

1119
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:45,300
would matter. 
But no, it's not mentioned. 

1120
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:49,100
So that's peculiar and maybe 
speaks to a little bit of 

1121
00:55:49,100 --> 00:55:51,660
cunning on Aegon's part, a 
little bit of trapiness which 

1122
00:55:51,660 --> 00:55:53,980
they may not have wanted to 
emphasize afterwards, cuz they 

1123
00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:56,380
wanted to show just yeah, we 
took them on head on and beat 

1124
00:55:56,380 --> 00:55:58,340
them and that was it. 
There was no they don't like. 

1125
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:02,420
We don't want to point out the 
tricks cuz tricks you can't rule

1126
00:56:02,420 --> 00:56:04,860
through trickery. 
Strength is something you can 

1127
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:09,110
rely on to hold a realm. 
You can't keep tricking people 

1128
00:56:09,110 --> 00:56:11,270
into holding the throne. 
And here's where I suspect 

1129
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:14,870
there's some other history, some
books were involved. 

1130
00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:17,030
Agon is. 
I don't know that he was 

1131
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:21,430
bookish, but he wasn't like a 
jock that didn't like reading. 

1132
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:24,150
You know, her lack of a better 
term for Westeros. 

1133
00:56:24,430 --> 00:56:26,870
I feel like he was pretty well 
educated, and between him and 

1134
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:29,550
his sisters, it's probably a lot
of education, probably a lot of 

1135
00:56:30,030 --> 00:56:33,990
reading, probably Valyrian 
freehold War treatises and 

1136
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:36,810
manuals. 
Like what thousands of years of 

1137
00:56:36,810 --> 00:56:40,250
dragon Lords have written down 
about how to use a dragon in 

1138
00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:42,250
battle. 
How to use a dragon against a 

1139
00:56:42,410 --> 00:56:44,330
standing army. 
How to use a dragon against 

1140
00:56:44,330 --> 00:56:48,690
cavalry, How to use a dragon 
when there's fields of wheat 

1141
00:56:49,610 --> 00:56:52,210
around. 
Like this is Aegon may not have 

1142
00:56:52,210 --> 00:56:55,710
invented this tactic. 
He may not have just improvised 

1143
00:56:55,710 --> 00:56:57,870
this. 
I strongly suspect this has been

1144
00:56:57,870 --> 00:57:01,270
written about in past texts, and
Agon may have gotten the idea 

1145
00:57:01,270 --> 00:57:03,190
from that. 
Maybe he came up with it on his 

1146
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:04,790
own. 
Maybe Viscenia came up with the 

1147
00:57:04,790 --> 00:57:07,750
idea. 
But I suspect this isn't this 

1148
00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:09,510
wasn't new, it was new to 
Westeros. 

1149
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:13,030
But we got that literally 
thousands of years of Illyrian 

1150
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:16,950
conquests that we don't know 
much of anything about. 

1151
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,160
And there's probably plenty of 
strategy written about best use 

1152
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:26,920
of Dragons in war and best uses 
of keeping men all like the the 

1153
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,600
Mongols had this, the Mongols 
had these. 

1154
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:35,390
Very not complex, but 
experienced from from positions 

1155
00:57:35,390 --> 00:57:38,910
of experience, from long years 
of war, of knowing how people 

1156
00:57:38,910 --> 00:57:41,590
retreat, knowing how the 
patterns like. 

1157
00:57:41,590 --> 00:57:44,510
It's like fluid dynamics, like 
the way people run, the way 

1158
00:57:44,510 --> 00:57:46,870
they'll run away. 
And the Mongols would understand

1159
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:49,150
how to guide that. 
They would chase them a certain 

1160
00:57:49,150 --> 00:57:53,910
way to lead them to a style of 
retreat they could capitalize 

1161
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:56,430
on. 
Like fear is something you can 

1162
00:57:56,430 --> 00:58:00,120
understand and predict in large 
groups. 

1163
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,520
You might not understand how a 
particular individual react to 

1164
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,520
fear, but when it's 405080 
thousand people, you know, crowd

1165
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:11,080
dynamics, mob dynamics, how a 
riot might play out, and there's

1166
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,800
thousands of years of Valyrian 
experience with this sort of 

1167
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,360
thing that I think Agon and 
Visanya and Rainey's probably 

1168
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,960
had to draw on if they so chose,
and I suspect that's in play 

1169
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,960
here. 
There were only, you know, 50 

1170
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,480
years of flight existing in 
World War 2, and we came up with

1171
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,360
firebombing, you know? 
Yeah, right. 

1172
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,760
We didn't have a long time to 
come up with that and we did. 

1173
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,200
So imagine if we had had that 
long, you know, there would have

1174
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,320
been, it would have been maybe 
more precise or, I don't know, 

1175
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,720
might have been pretty similar. 
But the idea wasn't new or 

1176
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,240
wouldn't have been new. 
So yeah, so either way, it's 

1177
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:41,900
easy to think of. 
Kind of. 

1178
00:58:41,900 --> 00:58:43,860
It's a natural enough idea that 
you can imagine him coming up 

1179
00:58:43,860 --> 00:58:45,780
without his own, but you can 
also imagine it being something 

1180
00:58:45,780 --> 00:58:47,860
that had been written about in a
variety of ways over the 

1181
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:52,380
preceding eons. 
Anyway, here is our next quote. 

1182
00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:56,740
Aegon Targaryen would not 
command the high ground as Ory's

1183
00:58:56,740 --> 00:59:01,340
Baratheon had at the last storm.
The ground was firm, not muddy, 

1184
00:59:01,780 --> 00:59:04,060
nor would they be troubled by 
rain. 

1185
00:59:04,260 --> 00:59:06,820
The day was cloudless, though 
windy. 

1186
00:59:07,330 --> 00:59:09,890
There had been no rain for more 
than a fortnight. 

1187
00:59:09,890 --> 00:59:12,130
Pretty perfect and the exact 
opposite of the last storm. 

1188
00:59:12,130 --> 00:59:15,090
And in other words, the rain can
be a big disadvantage for the 

1189
00:59:15,090 --> 00:59:16,930
Dragons and the dryness can be a
big advantage. 

1190
00:59:16,930 --> 00:59:19,730
So yes, indeed, that's something
for us to keep an eye out for. 

1191
00:59:19,730 --> 00:59:22,570
And it's not going by some fire,
by the way, just as it's 

1192
00:59:22,570 --> 00:59:25,530
potential for a muddy battle and
the storm lands again, You know,

1193
00:59:25,530 --> 00:59:28,530
with the Golden Company and 
maybe other things, there's a 

1194
00:59:28,530 --> 00:59:32,570
potential for large scale battle
like this in the Reach or in the

1195
00:59:32,570 --> 00:59:34,210
West. 
Something like the Loot Train 

1196
00:59:34,210 --> 00:59:38,250
battle, vaguely like it could 
happen from the TV show The 

1197
00:59:38,250 --> 00:59:40,210
Reach in the West versus an army
with Dragons. 

1198
00:59:40,210 --> 00:59:43,410
You know, might the Dragons 
won't be as Danny's Dragons 

1199
00:59:43,410 --> 00:59:47,450
won't be as devastating as 
these, but Danny's army will be 

1200
00:59:47,450 --> 00:59:49,050
larger. 
Presumably it could have 

1201
00:59:49,050 --> 00:59:51,090
Bethraki and Unsullied, So there
is that. 

1202
00:59:51,850 --> 00:59:53,410
So it won't be the exact same 
thing. 

1203
00:59:53,410 --> 00:59:55,450
It won't be history repeating 
itself exactly, but there will 

1204
00:59:55,450 --> 00:59:58,880
be some elements that we could 
probably draw comparisons to 

1205
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,560
that will be pretty, pretty 
strong, and we'll just have to 

1206
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,920
wait and see. 
Either way, it teaches us to 

1207
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,080
think about terrain and weather 
when we're thinking about 

1208
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,800
Dragons and and the way that 
they can be helped or hurt, even

1209
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,320
more so than the men on the 
ground and the horses. 

1210
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,680
Here's our next quote taking us 
into the preparations for the 

1211
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,480
beginning of the battle. 
King Merne had brought half 

1212
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,860
again as many men to the battle 
as King born, and so demanded 

1213
01:00:27,860 --> 01:00:29,340
the honor of commanding the 
center. 

1214
01:00:29,740 --> 01:00:32,020
His son and heir Edmond was 
given the vanguard. 

1215
01:00:32,220 --> 01:00:34,580
King Lorne and his Knights 
performed the right, Lord 

1216
01:00:34,620 --> 01:00:37,340
Oakhart the left. 
With no natural barriers to 

1217
01:00:37,340 --> 01:00:39,940
anchor the Targaryen lion, The 2
kings meant to sweep around 

1218
01:00:39,940 --> 01:00:43,620
Aegon on both flanks then take 
him in the rear with their iron 

1219
01:00:43,620 --> 01:00:46,100
fist. 
A great wedge of armored Knights

1220
01:00:46,100 --> 01:00:48,540
and high Lords smashed through 
Aegon Center. 

1221
01:00:48,700 --> 01:00:53,060
That's a little that's a little 
suggestive. 

1222
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:55,470
Can you see? 
Why just him in the rear? 

1223
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:59,350
Can you see why I did? 
Sometimes you can tell which 

1224
01:00:59,430 --> 01:01:03,230
quotes I'm gonna give to Sean, 
because I don't think I can. 

1225
01:01:03,230 --> 01:01:04,790
Possibly because I don't have a 
dirty mind. 

1226
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:06,910
Yeah, I would not have. 
Made it through that I would 

1227
01:01:06,910 --> 01:01:08,350
never have made it through that 
quote. 

1228
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:10,550
I was grinning, listening to 
Sean. 

1229
01:01:10,550 --> 01:01:13,630
Rita is he talked about taking 
him in the rear with and the I 

1230
01:01:13,710 --> 01:01:16,110
and especially the, Sean said 
with their iron fist. 

1231
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:18,350
This is Wedge. 
Yeah, just wedge it right in 

1232
01:01:18,350 --> 01:01:22,350
there, right in his rear. 
God, oh boy. 

1233
01:01:22,430 --> 01:01:24,070
Real everything. 
Everywhere. 

1234
01:01:24,070 --> 01:01:24,830
All at once. 
Yeah. 

1235
01:01:26,750 --> 01:01:31,350
So the center and the vanguard 
both for house gardener, that's 

1236
01:01:31,350 --> 01:01:35,030
that's really like all the honor
and all the doom. 

1237
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:37,630
Like you just put your son in 
air right in the vanguard, 

1238
01:01:37,630 --> 01:01:41,590
charge right down. 
Valerian's gullet didn't work 

1239
01:01:41,590 --> 01:01:42,790
out so well. 
I suspect. 

1240
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:46,830
I suspect Edmond was the 1st to 
go of these, cuz he was in the 

1241
01:01:46,830 --> 01:01:49,110
vanguard. 
Like that makes sense, you know?

1242
01:01:49,740 --> 01:01:52,460
So and I suspect that the 
Hightowers might have had 

1243
01:01:52,580 --> 01:01:55,540
control of one of those if they 
were there because they would 

1244
01:01:55,540 --> 01:01:57,780
have been higher rank, you know,
but but that's not what happened

1245
01:01:58,620 --> 01:02:02,180
so. 
Later on, as I was alluding to, 

1246
01:02:02,540 --> 01:02:04,100
they would probably learn it one
day. 

1247
01:02:04,100 --> 01:02:06,420
It might have dawned on them, 
maybe the day after, maybe 

1248
01:02:06,420 --> 01:02:09,180
during, that this was the worst 
possible strategy they could 

1249
01:02:09,180 --> 01:02:11,060
have used. 
Put everyone together in charge.

1250
01:02:11,060 --> 01:02:14,060
That's the worst idea. 
To them, it's the best idea 

1251
01:02:14,060 --> 01:02:17,020
because it's the thing that 
defines chivalry. 

1252
01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:19,700
Like the You get, you get 
together, you charge, and you 

1253
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:22,580
see who's stronger. 
But in this case, it was 

1254
01:02:23,420 --> 01:02:25,100
horrible, horrible thinking, you
know. 

1255
01:02:25,140 --> 01:02:27,100
Nope, not not good at all. 
And. 

1256
01:02:28,210 --> 01:02:30,730
But these guys have just, this 
is how they've done war for 

1257
01:02:30,730 --> 01:02:32,690
countless generations. 
They don't know anything else. 

1258
01:02:32,690 --> 01:02:35,410
Yeah, encirclement strategy is 
very straightforward, very 

1259
01:02:35,410 --> 01:02:37,490
common, very normal. 
Aegon probably saw it coming. 

1260
01:02:37,490 --> 01:02:40,210
He's like, yeah, they're going 
to try to stick their fist in my

1261
01:02:40,210 --> 01:02:43,370
rear. 
So let's see them do that when 

1262
01:02:43,370 --> 01:02:45,050
I'm way up in the air. 
Like, how are they going to? 

1263
01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:50,090
So if there hadn't been Dragons,
or even if there had been one 

1264
01:02:50,090 --> 01:02:55,210
small dragon and Aegon's army 
was three times as big, it might

1265
01:02:55,210 --> 01:02:56,090
have worked. 
It might have. 

1266
01:02:56,090 --> 01:02:59,310
Still might have worked, yeah. 
Here's an interesting 

1267
01:02:59,310 --> 01:03:01,230
perspective. 
Consider here Aegon's allies. 

1268
01:03:01,230 --> 01:03:06,110
We got like Lord Mooton and Lord
Darkland and these other guys 

1269
01:03:06,110 --> 01:03:09,550
who were in his army, they 
probably just shaking their 

1270
01:03:09,550 --> 01:03:12,950
heads like these, Reach and 
Westerman, they're just we 

1271
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:15,190
because they had learned their 
lesson a few weeks before. 

1272
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:17,270
So now they're in the know. 
They're like, yeah. 

1273
01:03:18,450 --> 01:03:21,250
Yeah, we've only got five times 
fewer men than you, but they 

1274
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:24,250
probably felt confident to you. 
They've seen Valerian in action 

1275
01:03:24,250 --> 01:03:26,170
and they hadn't seen all three 
Dragons in action. 

1276
01:03:26,170 --> 01:03:29,650
It's like, wow, all three. 
We're going to see a site. 

1277
01:03:29,650 --> 01:03:33,130
This is going to be a spectacle 
that they are going to tell 

1278
01:03:33,130 --> 01:03:35,370
their grandchildren, their great
grandchildren. 

1279
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:37,950
And they would be confident that
they'd live to have great 

1280
01:03:37,950 --> 01:03:39,870
grandchildren because they would
feel confident they were going 

1281
01:03:39,870 --> 01:03:44,750
to win this day because they saw
this army making the mistakes 

1282
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:47,830
that they made when they faced 
Agon and how badly it went for 

1283
01:03:47,830 --> 01:03:49,030
them. 
And they're like, well, at least

1284
01:03:49,030 --> 01:03:51,470
we survived. 
To see this and to be on the 

1285
01:03:51,470 --> 01:03:58,430
right side of this and think 
about some other factors for 

1286
01:03:58,430 --> 01:04:00,990
Agon and everyone involved, how 
well this would have gone, 

1287
01:04:01,750 --> 01:04:06,050
these, these troops in his army.
Now it's both sort of a test of 

1288
01:04:06,050 --> 01:04:09,970
their loyalty and their bravery.
Hey, I want you 5000 to face 

1289
01:04:09,970 --> 01:04:14,410
these 50,000, right? 
You're going to do this, right? 

1290
01:04:14,610 --> 01:04:17,650
And and then also it's a chance 
for them to gain glory. 

1291
01:04:17,690 --> 01:04:21,250
They are all going to come away 
as the winners of this battle. 

1292
01:04:21,250 --> 01:04:23,650
We were outnumbered. 
We beat the West and the Reach 

1293
01:04:23,890 --> 01:04:25,410
like all of them. 
Yeah, you're right. 

1294
01:04:25,490 --> 01:04:27,570
They got He gives a lot of glory
to his army. 

1295
01:04:27,570 --> 01:04:30,770
It tests their loyalty to him. 
It gets him a chance to show off

1296
01:04:30,770 --> 01:04:33,970
the power of the Dragons. 
There's such a win and every 

1297
01:04:34,170 --> 01:04:38,530
break on at least other than 
maybe, you know, his psyche or 

1298
01:04:38,530 --> 01:04:40,850
his moral dilemma of 
slaughtering all these people in

1299
01:04:40,850 --> 01:04:42,290
war. 
But other than that, it's a win 

1300
01:04:42,290 --> 01:04:43,890
in almost. 
Yeah, like those, like a lot of 

1301
01:04:43,890 --> 01:04:46,330
those folks, a lot of the 
veterans of the Field of Fire, 

1302
01:04:46,330 --> 01:04:48,570
even if you're on the losing 
side and survived, but even more

1303
01:04:48,570 --> 01:04:51,210
so if you're on the winning side
in the short term, you probably 

1304
01:04:51,210 --> 01:04:54,650
never paid for your own drinks. 
You know, if you were at a bar, 

1305
01:04:54,650 --> 01:04:57,370
you know, you're like, let me 
tell you the day, and 

1306
01:04:57,370 --> 01:04:59,690
everybody's like, oh, this guy 
was at the Field of fire. 

1307
01:05:00,210 --> 01:05:01,490
Shut up, shut up. 
Everybody shut. 

1308
01:05:01,730 --> 01:05:03,330
Up I guess you talking about 
like. 

1309
01:05:03,770 --> 01:05:05,810
Like Aegon Psyche makes me 
wonder, I guess it. 

1310
01:05:06,130 --> 01:05:10,130
I also wonder how up close and 
personal these Lords would have 

1311
01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:13,170
been with those horrors. 
Like, can they like when they 

1312
01:05:13,170 --> 01:05:15,690
lay in bed trying to sleep, do 
they smell burning flesh, or 

1313
01:05:15,690 --> 01:05:18,530
were they kind of ever moved 
from it a little bit? 

1314
01:05:18,730 --> 01:05:19,810
You know, I feel like they 
might. 

1315
01:05:20,810 --> 01:05:22,570
Yeah, like that's a pretty 
brutal. 

1316
01:05:23,130 --> 01:05:26,250
Like war in general was awful, 
but I feel like that would be a 

1317
01:05:26,250 --> 01:05:30,950
particularly memorable. 
Sight because of all of the 

1318
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:34,030
senses that you would be really.
Smells would be awful too. 

1319
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:35,350
You're at the sights would be 
awful. 

1320
01:05:35,350 --> 01:05:36,790
The sounds would be awful. 
The smell. 

1321
01:05:36,790 --> 01:05:38,950
You're right, just. 
So, like, if you're, you saw it.

1322
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:41,990
I don't like, yeah, you're 
telling your grandkids, but 

1323
01:05:41,990 --> 01:05:44,990
maybe you're like, you tell your
grandkids and then you retired 

1324
01:05:44,990 --> 01:05:47,670
to bed to cry, Yeah. 
I don't know. 

1325
01:05:47,710 --> 01:05:49,150
We can. 
Some people might not want to 

1326
01:05:49,150 --> 01:05:50,870
tell this. 
Like, no, I will not tell that 

1327
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:52,390
story. 
Yeah, I don't care about a free 

1328
01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:53,750
drink. 
I just want to get past that. 

1329
01:05:53,750 --> 01:05:54,710
I don't. 
Want to think about it? 

1330
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:55,510
Yeah, you're right. 
Yeah. 

1331
01:05:55,510 --> 01:05:56,830
We can't. 
We shouldn't go over glorify 

1332
01:05:56,830 --> 01:05:58,030
because you're right. 
There would be the other end or 

1333
01:05:58,030 --> 01:05:59,630
people just like no. 
I've never wanted. 

1334
01:05:59,630 --> 01:06:01,670
I want to think about that as 
little as possible, because I 

1335
01:06:01,670 --> 01:06:03,910
think about it all the time when
I'm sleeping, and that's enough.

1336
01:06:03,910 --> 01:06:10,870
That's more than enough. 
And yeah, to bring back visuals,

1337
01:06:11,990 --> 01:06:14,070
it was. 
We got some visuals of this from

1338
01:06:14,070 --> 01:06:17,030
that Loot Train Battle episode. 
The aftermath was pretty nasty, 

1339
01:06:17,030 --> 01:06:19,070
like Jamie looking around, 
Tyrion looking around. 

1340
01:06:19,070 --> 01:06:21,630
Like especially Tyrion wandering
the battlefield afterwards, like

1341
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:23,790
because he felt hard to feel 
responsible for his. 

1342
01:06:23,790 --> 01:06:25,830
Like, what if like, I'm partly 
responsible for this? 

1343
01:06:26,090 --> 01:06:29,250
Which by the way we have a quote
later of that Tyrion feeling 

1344
01:06:29,250 --> 01:06:30,650
responsible for a lot of 
carnage. 

1345
01:06:30,650 --> 01:06:33,850
So it kind of comes back around.
So we might be we might be 

1346
01:06:33,850 --> 01:06:36,050
getting something like that in 
the books Tyrion or maybe Danny 

1347
01:06:36,050 --> 01:06:38,930
or someone like looking on this 
we're like wow this isn't really

1348
01:06:38,930 --> 01:06:42,770
what I had in mind. 
This is not what I wanted, you 

1349
01:06:42,770 --> 01:06:46,050
know. 
But there could also be in House

1350
01:06:46,050 --> 01:06:48,010
of the Dragon. 
We might see some carnage in 

1351
01:06:48,010 --> 01:06:50,690
aftermath that gives us other 
looks besides that one. 

1352
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:53,890
So we might have multiple view. 
I can't wait to see all the 

1353
01:06:53,930 --> 01:06:58,360
carnage and burnt bodies and I 
have a thought that I was going 

1354
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,520
to work in later on, but it's 
it's pretty relevant now, is it?

1355
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:06,560
It could have been worse. 
It it's something that I think 

1356
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:12,440
that if Aegon, if if this is 
Megor, he wouldn't have burned a

1357
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,660
strife through the vanguard. 
He would have just burned a 

1358
01:07:15,660 --> 01:07:18,940
circle around the army and all 
4050 thousand of them would have

1359
01:07:18,940 --> 01:07:21,220
just been engulfed, inflamed and
died of. 

1360
01:07:21,420 --> 01:07:24,420
All the oxygen would have burned
up and he could have just 

1361
01:07:24,420 --> 01:07:25,260
murdered everyone. 
Yeah. 

1362
01:07:25,580 --> 01:07:28,140
Yeah, that's true. 
He just did enough to like the 

1363
01:07:28,140 --> 01:07:29,700
battle is over now, right? 
Like. 

1364
01:07:29,780 --> 01:07:31,820
A gun was more precise. 
Yeah, he was. 

1365
01:07:31,820 --> 01:07:33,780
He was trying to not kill all 
the troops. 

1366
01:07:33,780 --> 01:07:36,180
He was trying to kill the 
leadership and leave the troops 

1367
01:07:36,180 --> 01:07:39,090
alone as much as possible. 
So yeah, here, here is what 

1368
01:07:39,090 --> 01:07:41,530
Aegon actually did. 
Here's his his battle 

1369
01:07:41,970 --> 01:07:46,130
preparations quote. 
Aegon Targaryen drew his own men

1370
01:07:46,170 --> 01:07:50,130
up in a rough Crescent, 
bristling with Spears and Pikes,

1371
01:07:50,250 --> 01:07:54,970
with Archers and cross Bowman 
just behind and light cavalry on

1372
01:07:54,970 --> 01:07:58,170
either flank. 
He gave command of his host to 

1373
01:07:58,170 --> 01:08:02,290
John Moon, Lord of maidenpool, 
one of the first foes to come 

1374
01:08:02,290 --> 01:08:06,090
over to his cause. 
The king himself intended to do 

1375
01:08:06,090 --> 01:08:11,210
his fighting from the sky beside
his Queens, Aegon had noted the 

1376
01:08:11,250 --> 01:08:15,170
absence of rain as well. 
The grass and wheat that 

1377
01:08:15,170 --> 01:08:19,689
surrounded the armies was tall 
and ripe for harvest and very 

1378
01:08:19,689 --> 01:08:22,890
dry. 
The plan as well ripens, yes. 

1379
01:08:22,890 --> 01:08:25,250
The Army of the Two Kings was 
walking right into a fire trap, 

1380
01:08:25,250 --> 01:08:26,450
basically. 
That's what we can kind of 

1381
01:08:26,450 --> 01:08:29,529
gather from this, even if you 
didn't already know it was 

1382
01:08:29,529 --> 01:08:30,689
coming. 
I think that would be pretty 

1383
01:08:30,689 --> 01:08:33,939
clear. 
Yeah, Nina wonders if maybe 

1384
01:08:34,180 --> 01:08:37,540
something we alluded to before 
if that we started bringing up 

1385
01:08:37,540 --> 01:08:39,580
in terms of the scouts not 
talking about the Dragons or 

1386
01:08:39,580 --> 01:08:42,420
just mentioning the 11,000 men 
is maybe yeah, maybe there were 

1387
01:08:42,420 --> 01:08:45,700
the Dragons were kept hidden or 
at least a little bit off a 

1388
01:08:45,740 --> 01:08:50,779
little bit off site just to 
maybe keep them under wraps a 

1389
01:08:50,779 --> 01:08:52,660
bit maybe. 
So the gardeners and Lannister 

1390
01:08:52,660 --> 01:08:54,180
didn't know exactly what they 
were going to face. 

1391
01:08:54,180 --> 01:08:57,779
Maybe to again to. 
Boost that false confidence. 

1392
01:08:57,819 --> 01:08:59,580
Aegon's like, yeah we're going 
to they've got this false 

1393
01:08:59,580 --> 01:09:01,460
confidence. 
Let's let's increase that even 

1394
01:09:01,460 --> 01:09:03,899
more And the best way to add is 
not a lot not let them see the 

1395
01:09:03,899 --> 01:09:06,380
Dragons because the Dragons will
will scare them if they see them

1396
01:09:06,380 --> 01:09:08,380
they'll be like, Oh my God, what
have what have we done. 

1397
01:09:08,819 --> 01:09:14,340
But if we keep that concealed to
the last minute then the plan 

1398
01:09:14,340 --> 01:09:16,300
will work optimally which it 
did. 

1399
01:09:16,300 --> 01:09:18,939
So there is yeah, I mean on one 
hand you can read this like man 

1400
01:09:18,939 --> 01:09:20,700
things just worked out so well 
for Aegon. 

1401
01:09:20,700 --> 01:09:22,340
Like they just walked right into
his trap. 

1402
01:09:22,340 --> 01:09:25,020
They it was really dumb of them.
But on the other hand. 

1403
01:09:25,950 --> 01:09:29,069
I think there's plenty of 
circumstantial evidence or the 

1404
01:09:29,069 --> 01:09:34,109
suggestion of Aegon doing things
to to make them do this, to like

1405
01:09:34,109 --> 01:09:37,270
increase this, increase the odds
of them falling into this trap 

1406
01:09:37,270 --> 01:09:39,270
to encourage them to make this 
mistake. 

1407
01:09:39,270 --> 01:09:43,470
It wasn't just a full on 
blundering exactly the right 

1408
01:09:43,470 --> 01:09:47,270
way, it was some of this was 
coached I think, or encouraged, 

1409
01:09:47,270 --> 01:09:51,990
or if or coerced or whatever. 
Pick your synonym, one or the 

1410
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:55,990
other. 
Let's take a quick break roughly

1411
01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:57,590
halfway through the episode 
here. 

1412
01:09:57,590 --> 01:10:01,430
When we come back, we'll get to 
the actual action, then the 

1413
01:10:01,470 --> 01:10:05,430
aftermath, then all the fun 
quotes and references that come 

1414
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:08,030
during A Song of Ice and Fire 
and Duncan Egg referring to the 

1415
01:10:08,030 --> 01:10:11,470
Field of Fire to show how the 
legend lingers, to show the 

1416
01:10:11,470 --> 01:10:13,630
lesson that Aegon taught and how
it it held. 

1417
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:18,230
This episode is brought to you 
by HelloFresh. 

1418
01:10:18,820 --> 01:10:23,220
Go to hellofresh.com/fifty 
Westeros and use the code of 50 

1419
01:10:23,220 --> 01:10:26,540
Westeros for 50% off plus free 
shipping. 

1420
01:10:27,340 --> 01:10:31,060
Even though the fall can feel 
jam packed, lots of holidays, 

1421
01:10:31,060 --> 01:10:33,100
end of the year stuff, things 
you're trying to get done that 

1422
01:10:33,100 --> 01:10:35,700
maybe you put off. 
HelloFresh gives you an option 

1423
01:10:36,020 --> 01:10:40,420
that lets you move quicker. 
You know we've pitched before 

1424
01:10:40,420 --> 01:10:43,420
the fun of being in the kitchen 
with your loved one or loved 

1425
01:10:43,420 --> 01:10:45,420
ones and spending that time 
together, preparing a meal 

1426
01:10:45,420 --> 01:10:46,780
together. 
But let's be honest, you don't 

1427
01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:48,660
always have that kind of time, 
so it's nice. 

1428
01:10:48,820 --> 01:10:52,220
Have an option to do something a
little faster so HelloFresh is 

1429
01:10:52,220 --> 01:10:55,380
quick and easy options including
their 15 minute meals. 

1430
01:10:56,020 --> 01:10:58,900
That's less time than it takes 
to get delivery, less time than 

1431
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:02,500
it takes to run out for fast 
food or about the same maybe and

1432
01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:06,140
way healthier and way tastier so
everything's pre portioned. 

1433
01:11:06,420 --> 01:11:08,340
You're already going to have it 
in your fridge. 

1434
01:11:08,420 --> 01:11:12,260
It's it's a no brainer. 
HelloFresh Market has addons as 

1435
01:11:12,260 --> 01:11:14,700
well. 
You can enjoy desserts like 

1436
01:11:14,900 --> 01:11:17,780
Apple cider Cake that sounds 
awesome with caramel sauce. 

1437
01:11:18,490 --> 01:11:22,610
A BBQ pulled pork nachos. 
Damn, I need to take a break and

1438
01:11:22,610 --> 01:11:26,290
eat some of that right now. 
Or mini pumpkin cheesecake. 

1439
01:11:26,850 --> 01:11:30,210
Lots of different options there.
Personally, I enjoyed the Pepita

1440
01:11:30,210 --> 01:11:32,370
crushed salmon. 
We had that a couple weeks back.

1441
01:11:32,370 --> 01:11:35,770
That was super good. 
It had these really excellent 

1442
01:11:36,810 --> 01:11:39,770
sides. 
There were these crispy bread 

1443
01:11:39,770 --> 01:11:43,610
pieces and this awesome salad 
with full of feta and these 

1444
01:11:43,610 --> 01:11:46,170
great tomatoes. 
Everything was really good that 

1445
01:11:46,170 --> 01:11:48,900
it was crispy. 
I love a good salad, so that was

1446
01:11:48,900 --> 01:11:50,740
nice. 
I love salmon too, so it was 

1447
01:11:50,740 --> 01:11:53,500
pretty perfect all around. 
So once again, go to 

1448
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:57,700
hellofresh.com/fifty Westeros 
and use the code 50 Westeros for

1449
01:11:57,700 --> 01:12:01,260
50% off. 
It is America's number one meal 

1450
01:12:01,260 --> 01:12:05,260
kit, so head over there today, 
use that discount code, get 

1451
01:12:05,260 --> 01:12:09,660
healthier and enjoy that 
delivery and that speed. 

1452
01:12:09,900 --> 01:12:13,180
Yeah, 50% off is no joke either.
That's a lot, yeah. 

1453
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:15,540
Yeah, that really is a lot. 
So I'm glad to have the options 

1454
01:12:15,540 --> 01:12:18,540
of if you can do the slower 
meals like longer preparation 

1455
01:12:18,540 --> 01:12:20,940
and take your time or the fast 
ones. 

1456
01:12:20,940 --> 01:12:22,460
That's one of the things I 
brought up and we started 

1457
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:27,780
repitching HelloFresh was the 
the changes they've made over 

1458
01:12:27,780 --> 01:12:30,180
the years to to scale and to 
give you more options. 

1459
01:12:30,180 --> 01:12:33,540
And I really appreciate that, 
that there's not A1 size fit all

1460
01:12:33,540 --> 01:12:35,660
approach anymore. 
You get to scale it to you 

1461
01:12:35,660 --> 01:12:39,020
rather than you scaling to them,
which that's a big leap forward.

1462
01:12:39,020 --> 01:12:39,820
I think. 
So yeah. 

1463
01:12:40,580 --> 01:12:42,260
Happy to see that. 
Happy to pitch them. 

1464
01:12:42,260 --> 01:12:44,580
Happy to have them as a sponsor.
We also have a bunch of 

1465
01:12:44,580 --> 01:12:47,500
individual sponsors, all of our 
patrons and it one thing that we

1466
01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:49,980
do for them is give them 
nicknames. 

1467
01:12:49,980 --> 01:12:53,540
Give them history or you know 
Westeros, Martin World inspired 

1468
01:12:53,540 --> 01:12:55,020
names. 
You could pick your own name 

1469
01:12:55,020 --> 01:12:56,260
too. 
If you're a patron, you don't 

1470
01:12:56,260 --> 01:12:57,940
have a name, let us know we'll 
make you a name. 

1471
01:12:58,420 --> 01:13:00,100
And I just wanted to give a 
shout out. 

1472
01:13:00,100 --> 01:13:03,140
We used to do this on a podcast 
more regularly but we would 

1473
01:13:03,140 --> 01:13:04,900
shout out some of the names of 
some of our patrons. 

1474
01:13:04,900 --> 01:13:08,600
So one of our very first, maybe 
the first three or four we ever 

1475
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,640
had, was Archmeister John the 
Just. 

1476
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,680
Also Serrambo Knight of House 
Gannon, First Blood. 

1477
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:19,120
I like incorporating some other 
fandoms into the name. 

1478
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,680
Lord Commander George the Golden
is on the Beer Guard in my in my

1479
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,720
honor, and by a new. 
Album you chose that name. 

1480
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:31,720
He's also one of the earliest 
ones I was trying to do. 

1481
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,440
Some new words and older ones 
spread the. 

1482
01:13:33,440 --> 01:13:35,400
We've met. 
We've met George in person at at

1483
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,580
yeah, he's you put some freaking
army on him. 

1484
01:13:39,580 --> 01:13:41,660
He could definitely be my real 
world beer guard. 

1485
01:13:41,700 --> 01:13:46,900
He's a big dude, Mr. Alley, who 
was lost and found in scrolls. 

1486
01:13:47,540 --> 01:13:51,900
Sir Billy Roddy, Knight of the 
North and Breaker of Horses and 

1487
01:13:51,900 --> 01:13:55,530
Red Priestess Ellie. 
I hope I say this right, Ellie 

1488
01:13:55,610 --> 01:13:57,970
Alika. 
Ellie Alika Yeah, it's actually 

1489
01:13:58,050 --> 01:13:59,410
a spreadsheet. 
Right on. 

1490
01:13:59,410 --> 01:14:01,370
So Shawn picked a few that he 
just liked. 

1491
01:14:01,530 --> 01:14:04,290
He's decided he wants to 
highlight some random patron 

1492
01:14:04,290 --> 01:14:05,610
names here and there, and I 
think it's cool. 

1493
01:14:05,610 --> 01:14:06,770
Yeah. 
Some of these names haven't been

1494
01:14:06,770 --> 01:14:08,530
said in a while. 
Occasionally some of them are 

1495
01:14:08,530 --> 01:14:12,850
said during scripted episodes, 
which still contain the full 

1496
01:14:12,850 --> 01:14:16,250
list of patrons based on our 
different tiers and which gets 

1497
01:14:16,250 --> 01:14:17,730
shouted out. 
That's cool. 

1498
01:14:18,010 --> 01:14:20,990
Thanks for that, Shawn. 
Also, Herb Thompson asks real 

1499
01:14:20,990 --> 01:14:22,390
life history. 
There's a ton of battles where 

1500
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:23,870
the vastly outnumbered armies 
won. 

1501
01:14:23,870 --> 01:14:25,950
Alexander Versi, Akaminids, 
Battle of Agincourt. 

1502
01:14:25,950 --> 01:14:27,830
Yeah, there are a lot of 
examples of that. 

1503
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:32,950
Usually it's because of some 
advantage that is not cited, 

1504
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:34,790
like here. 
Of course, Dragons are the 

1505
01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:36,830
advantage. 
That is very it's a very clear 

1506
01:14:36,830 --> 01:14:41,030
advantage. 
In this case, Alexander, his was

1507
01:14:41,030 --> 01:14:44,590
superior strategy. 
He charged right at Drius. 

1508
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:46,830
Drius ran away. 
But it wasn't just. 

1509
01:14:46,830 --> 01:14:48,750
It wasn't as simple as charging 
right at him. 

1510
01:14:48,750 --> 01:14:51,570
It was. 
He he moved his army, he moved 

1511
01:14:51,570 --> 01:14:55,490
his cavalry that he led along 
the front lines towards one 

1512
01:14:55,490 --> 01:14:58,010
side, towards his own right, if 
I remember correctly. 

1513
01:14:58,250 --> 01:15:02,490
And Dorias sent a screen to 
follow him to, to kind of match 

1514
01:15:02,490 --> 01:15:04,210
him. 
And it was, but it wasn't a 

1515
01:15:04,210 --> 01:15:06,250
horse screen. 
It was kind of like it was a 

1516
01:15:06,250 --> 01:15:08,010
bunch of skirmishers and javelin
throwers. 

1517
01:15:08,170 --> 01:15:10,210
And then Alexander, if you can 
watch my hands, he's kind of cut

1518
01:15:10,210 --> 01:15:13,170
back and charged back. 
They were following him this 

1519
01:15:13,170 --> 01:15:14,490
way. 
Then he just kind of pivoted 

1520
01:15:14,490 --> 01:15:16,570
back in front of them and 
charged right through that gap. 

1521
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,080
And right. 
Dorias ran away and his army ran

1522
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:20,360
away with him. 
King runs away. 

1523
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:21,480
The army runs with it. 
Yeah. 

1524
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,280
The other advantage was that 
Alexander's armies were not 

1525
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,360
conscripts. 
And the Persians were like, 

1526
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,280
we're basically slave soldiers. 
And they were like, we don't 

1527
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:30,240
want to be here. 
We're not here out of loyalty. 

1528
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,160
We're here because we'll be 
killed if we're not. 

1529
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,040
Whereas Alexander's men were 
like, we're following this guy 

1530
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,120
because he's amazing. 
Well, I mean, they kind of had 

1531
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:37,960
to too. 
But it wasn't. 

1532
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,680
It wasn't slavery. 
So the battle of action court, 

1533
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:42,840
good example. 
That's also a technology thing. 

1534
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,560
Longbow's strategy was the 
French did not adapt. 

1535
01:15:47,070 --> 01:15:50,030
To these longbows being shot at 
them and they just kept charging

1536
01:15:50,030 --> 01:15:51,430
right into it. 
And there was mud and all this 

1537
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:54,110
other stuff. 
Yeah, I also should say that I 

1538
01:15:54,110 --> 01:15:56,950
may be overstated it. 
It's not like never does the 

1539
01:15:57,030 --> 01:16:01,110
5000 army beat the 50,000, but 
it's so rare that we take note 

1540
01:16:01,110 --> 01:16:02,990
when it happened. 
It is the weird rare thing. 

1541
01:16:02,990 --> 01:16:05,430
There might be a bunch of 
examples of it, but there are 

1542
01:16:05,430 --> 01:16:10,070
probably literally 1000 times 
many more examples of when it. 

1543
01:16:10,590 --> 01:16:11,750
These battles do. 
You're right. 

1544
01:16:11,750 --> 01:16:14,310
These battles are are 
historically significant, in 

1545
01:16:14,310 --> 01:16:16,990
part because the smaller force 
beat the larger. 

1546
01:16:17,110 --> 01:16:19,310
Force. 
And they're analyzed because of 

1547
01:16:19,310 --> 01:16:23,430
that, like the battle of Can I 
or Car I of in Rome when 

1548
01:16:23,430 --> 01:16:26,030
Hannibal encircled a larger 
force with a smaller force, 

1549
01:16:26,030 --> 01:16:28,310
that's like, whoa, that's 
incredible. 

1550
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:31,190
But it's just an amazing general
ship that that accomplished 

1551
01:16:31,190 --> 01:16:32,990
that, you know, that stuff like 
that. 

1552
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:37,110
Another example from Lolatov 
reminds me of the Mongols versus

1553
01:16:37,110 --> 01:16:39,310
gigantic armies with 
Expeditionary forces. 

1554
01:16:39,310 --> 01:16:42,890
Yeah, Subatai. 
Was sent with 30,000 Mongols and

1555
01:16:42,890 --> 01:16:46,330
he to to scout the West and 
scout Europe and go through all 

1556
01:16:46,330 --> 01:16:48,930
that area and yeah, he built and
instead he took over. 

1557
01:16:48,930 --> 01:16:51,050
Europe, yeah, he essentially he 
conquered like half of Europe 

1558
01:16:51,050 --> 01:16:53,330
with an Expeditionary for the 
Mongols were just vastly 

1559
01:16:53,330 --> 01:16:58,450
superior in in on the 
battlefield and with logistics 

1560
01:16:58,450 --> 01:17:01,890
and these other things. 
Yeah, so very good examples, 

1561
01:17:01,890 --> 01:17:03,530
very good example. 
If they had had Dragons, it 

1562
01:17:03,530 --> 01:17:07,090
would have would have been even 
more onesided, even with their 

1563
01:17:08,130 --> 01:17:12,360
lack of men. 
So here is the actual quotes 

1564
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,640
from the field of fire itself. 
Let's have it. 

1565
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:19,760
The Targaryens waited until the 
two kings sounded their trumpets

1566
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,800
and started forward beneath a 
sea of banners. 

1567
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:27,120
King Merne himself led the 
charge against the center on his

1568
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:32,040
golden stallion, his son Gawan 
beside him with his banner, a 

1569
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,040
great green hand upon a field of
white. 

1570
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:39,680
Roaring and screaming, urged on 
by horns and drums, the 

1571
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:44,640
Gardeners and Lannisters charged
through a storm of arrows down 

1572
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,600
unto their foes, sweeping aside 
the Targaryen spearmen, 

1573
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,520
shattering their ranks. 
But by then Aegon and his 

1574
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:56,480
sisters were in the air. 
Aegon flew above the ranks of 

1575
01:17:56,480 --> 01:18:00,560
his foes upon Valerian. 
Through a storm of Spears and 

1576
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:05,320
stones and arrows swooping down 
repeatedly to bathe his foes in 

1577
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:06,880
flame. 
They were screaming as they 

1578
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,960
charged and then it turned into 
a different sort of screaming. 

1579
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,560
I doubt. 
And you can see the things we 

1580
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:13,840
were talking about with the 
planning here. 

1581
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:18,000
They charged like screaming and 
excited and then the Dragons 

1582
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,920
took there. 
They it says they waited for the

1583
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,240
charge to begin, which is like, 
yeah, they were waiting for the 

1584
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:26,000
closing the jaws of the trap. 
Make sure they're in charge. 

1585
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:28,720
They're fully charging before 
you light the flames behind them

1586
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:32,040
otherwise, because once the 
charge is going, it's not going 

1587
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:34,400
to stop until it hits something.
It's not just going to slow 

1588
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,120
down, but actually, never mind, 
let's ease down. 

1589
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,880
Like no, the dude in the front 
is not stopping. 

1590
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,280
The dude behind him can't stop. 
No one can stop except the very 

1591
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:45,920
end of the chart like the guys 
at the back and. 

1592
01:18:46,420 --> 01:18:47,700
If they stop, that doesn't even 
matter. 

1593
01:18:48,860 --> 01:18:50,740
It's lost any sorts of 
coordination. 

1594
01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:54,180
Once it's in full charge, it's 
it's kind of like a snowball or 

1595
01:18:54,180 --> 01:18:56,500
an avalanche. 
It's not going to stop till it 

1596
01:18:56,500 --> 01:18:59,380
collides with something. 
I doubt the stones and Spears 

1597
01:18:59,380 --> 01:19:02,940
even got closed, Says he flew 
through a storm of Spears and 

1598
01:19:02,940 --> 01:19:04,980
stones and arrows like the 
Spears. 

1599
01:19:04,980 --> 01:19:07,460
Like I don't think those even 
got remotely closed. 

1600
01:19:07,460 --> 01:19:09,980
The stones really didn't arrows,
Maybe. 

1601
01:19:09,980 --> 01:19:12,380
Maybe that's the only thing that
could have even potentially 

1602
01:19:12,380 --> 01:19:14,500
gotten close. 
Like he can keep his distance, 

1603
01:19:14,980 --> 01:19:17,010
right? 
The Flames, like, he's not like 

1604
01:19:17,010 --> 01:19:18,850
hundreds of feet away, I don't 
think. 

1605
01:19:19,330 --> 01:19:22,250
But the Flames have a bit of 
range to them. 

1606
01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,170
And he's up above. 
You know like how? 

1607
01:19:24,650 --> 01:19:27,810
Like throwing a spear, you got 
to be really strong. 

1608
01:19:27,810 --> 01:19:30,330
You got to be like Gregory 
Clagaine, Olympic champion 

1609
01:19:30,330 --> 01:19:32,010
javelin thrower, to do something
like that. 

1610
01:19:33,610 --> 01:19:37,170
Real life longbows, let's get 
real for a second, can penetrate

1611
01:19:37,170 --> 01:19:41,290
plate mail at about 200 meters, 
but it isn't him. 

1612
01:19:41,290 --> 01:19:43,810
Full penetration. 
That's just like they can stick 

1613
01:19:43,810 --> 01:19:46,590
in. 
The the plate, but not go all 

1614
01:19:46,590 --> 01:19:47,750
the way through so it wouldn't 
hurt. 

1615
01:19:47,790 --> 01:19:49,950
It would just, like be annoying.
It would slow you down a little 

1616
01:19:49,950 --> 01:19:51,630
bit if you had a bunch of those 
arrows sticking out of you. 

1617
01:19:52,990 --> 01:19:55,030
So if we were, it might even 
hurt a little bit. 

1618
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:56,750
But it's not going to like, 
Pierce your heart, right? 

1619
01:19:56,750 --> 01:19:59,750
And and often you might have 
some sort of cloth or leather 

1620
01:19:59,750 --> 01:20:00,710
under You're gonna have layers, 
just. 

1621
01:20:00,710 --> 01:20:03,430
Yes, absolutely. 
You're not wearing plate mail 

1622
01:20:03,430 --> 01:20:04,750
against bare skin, that's for 
sure. 

1623
01:20:04,830 --> 01:20:08,950
I am Shay it is Okay Shay is. 
I did a Dragon Con with my. 

1624
01:20:09,430 --> 01:20:10,670
Yeah, you are too. 
You're right. 

1625
01:20:11,470 --> 01:20:14,030
I was concerned for Aziz and 
he's like, it's fine, it's fine.

1626
01:20:14,030 --> 01:20:15,510
I don't care. 
I was like, it's gonna be hot. 

1627
01:20:15,790 --> 01:20:19,030
It was only on my shoulder. 
Yeah, it was a little hot, but 

1628
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:22,830
not that hot. 
It was OK, so there's a 

1629
01:20:22,830 --> 01:20:27,950
misunderstanding about longbows.
We, and I'm glad Herb Thompson 

1630
01:20:27,950 --> 01:20:30,070
brought up agincore because 
there's a little bit of 

1631
01:20:30,070 --> 01:20:31,870
misunderstanding about agincore 
and longbows. 

1632
01:20:31,870 --> 01:20:35,630
Yes, longbows won the day at 
agincore, but there's a there's 

1633
01:20:35,630 --> 01:20:38,750
a belief that these longbows 
were just killing the French 

1634
01:20:38,750 --> 01:20:41,030
Knights by piercing their armor.
P that's not really what 

1635
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:43,310
happened. 
The arrows were killing their 

1636
01:20:43,310 --> 01:20:47,430
horses and sticking in them a 
lot and slowing them down. 

1637
01:20:47,670 --> 01:20:49,950
So they had to get off their 
horses because their horses were

1638
01:20:49,950 --> 01:20:51,790
getting shot down. 
And then they had to, which put 

1639
01:20:51,790 --> 01:20:54,270
them in the mud because it was 
muddy, which made them slog to 

1640
01:20:54,270 --> 01:20:56,070
the mud in their heavy army, 
which was getting worse and 

1641
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:58,590
worse as they got filled with 
arrows, which some of them did 

1642
01:20:58,590 --> 01:21:00,670
do some damage. 
Some of them would find the gaps

1643
01:21:01,070 --> 01:21:03,150
in the armor and wouldn't hit 
the plate, would hit like the 

1644
01:21:03,150 --> 01:21:07,870
legs or in the foot or wherever 
the spaces are. 

1645
01:21:07,990 --> 01:21:11,470
And they're also effective 
against lower quality plate 

1646
01:21:11,470 --> 01:21:13,670
mail. 
High quality like the rich guys 

1647
01:21:13,670 --> 01:21:16,790
armors wouldn't be penetrated, 
but the lower quality plate mail

1648
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:18,190
that would. 
You can Pierce that with a 

1649
01:21:18,190 --> 01:21:19,990
Longbow. 
So it's a lot more nuanced than 

1650
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:22,310
these descriptions are. 
So again, bring that back to 

1651
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:24,230
here. 
Valerians armors not getting 

1652
01:21:24,230 --> 01:21:27,630
pierced by longbows? 
Y'all and egg on the Conqueror 

1653
01:21:27,630 --> 01:21:30,190
best believe he had that high 
quality steel armor. 

1654
01:21:30,190 --> 01:21:33,870
Visenna and Rainey's to no doubt
they had the best armor you 

1655
01:21:33,870 --> 01:21:36,620
could have and I don't think 
they had Valyrian steel armor, 

1656
01:21:36,620 --> 01:21:38,580
but they did have the best steel
you could make. 

1657
01:21:39,100 --> 01:21:42,740
So that's why there was only one
slight wounding of one of them 

1658
01:21:42,740 --> 01:21:44,420
during this whole battle. 
Which was an arrow to the 

1659
01:21:44,420 --> 01:21:46,780
shoulder, which was almost 
certainly an extremely lucky 

1660
01:21:46,780 --> 01:21:49,380
shot because you know, they were
aiming for them. 

1661
01:21:49,380 --> 01:21:50,820
You know, like, yeah, shoot down
the dragon. 

1662
01:21:50,820 --> 01:21:51,860
No. 
They're they're trying to shoot 

1663
01:21:51,860 --> 01:21:53,340
the rider. 
Like, how you going to kill that

1664
01:21:53,340 --> 01:21:56,100
thing with an arrow? 
Like that's just it would defy 

1665
01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:59,820
all logic and intuition that you
could kill that with an arrow 

1666
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:02,540
like blaring like even 100 
arrows. 

1667
01:22:02,540 --> 01:22:06,410
Like, no, that's it's silly. 
Like it's like killing an 

1668
01:22:06,410 --> 01:22:10,370
elephant with with needles. 
You know like how many needles 

1669
01:22:10,370 --> 01:22:12,370
would it take to kill? 
And I mean I don't know that you

1670
01:22:12,370 --> 01:22:14,930
could do and it might not be 
there might not be enough 

1671
01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:15,650
needles. 
I don't know. 

1672
01:22:15,650 --> 01:22:20,010
So this is a big deal. 
This is this is how hard it is 

1673
01:22:20,010 --> 01:22:23,370
to, to hurt a dragon rider. 
Not to mention the wings 

1674
01:22:23,370 --> 01:22:25,170
flapping those giant wings. 
We saw that. 

1675
01:22:25,330 --> 01:22:26,850
I had never conceived of that 
before. 

1676
01:22:26,850 --> 01:22:29,490
We saw it on House of the Dragon
when Crack sees his wings were 

1677
01:22:29,490 --> 01:22:32,410
kind of this like naturally 
protecting Damon from arrows 

1678
01:22:32,410 --> 01:22:34,800
just by flapping. 
They're just large and there's a

1679
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,360
lot of space they're taking up 
when they're flapping. 

1680
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:39,200
Valerian's wings are all the 
larger. 

1681
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:43,880
You know, it's Yeah. 
So really, when you put yourself

1682
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,960
in and Add all these details up,
it just just gets worse for the 

1683
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,400
Reach in the West. 
Like, man, yeah, these Dragons, 

1684
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:51,280
just so overwhelming. 
Apart from the weather, this was

1685
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:53,560
much different than prior 
engagements for Agon, too. 

1686
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:57,240
Heron Hall was at night, right? 
That's a big factor there. 

1687
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,000
He had torched some ships on a 
few occasions, but even he 

1688
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,280
hadn't faced anything like this.
He'd fought and he'd fought 

1689
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:06,990
ships before, you know, even 
well before this war, but and 

1690
01:23:06,990 --> 01:23:10,270
nothing like this. 
But again, we can assume history

1691
01:23:10,270 --> 01:23:12,870
came into play. 
Again, he would have read about 

1692
01:23:12,910 --> 01:23:16,270
engagements like this, and it's 
not exactly rocket science. 

1693
01:23:16,270 --> 01:23:21,510
There's certainly ways to 
maximally use each dive bomb. 

1694
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:25,110
You know, like getting maximum 
results, crowd control, all that

1695
01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:27,750
stuff and this, this burning of 
the field strategy that we're 

1696
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:30,550
about to see unfold that was 
probably had been done before. 

1697
01:23:31,230 --> 01:23:36,070
Nina points out the Roynar 300 
Dragons deployed against them 

1698
01:23:36,070 --> 01:23:38,350
and Prince Prince Garen and and 
all that. 

1699
01:23:38,350 --> 01:23:41,070
There probably would have been 
strategy there. 

1700
01:23:41,070 --> 01:23:44,190
Aegon may have read about that. 
It wasn't just 300 Dragons, just

1701
01:23:44,190 --> 01:23:47,670
randomly doing the swooping down
and there must have been some 

1702
01:23:47,670 --> 01:23:50,550
organization to that. 
You know, wings perhaps like 

1703
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:52,230
like fighter planes or something
like that. 

1704
01:23:52,230 --> 01:23:56,470
Groups of five, groups of 10, 
Red Leader to Red Squadron, you 

1705
01:23:56,470 --> 01:23:59,190
know they don't have the this. 
Is like a choreographed Dance of

1706
01:23:59,190 --> 01:24:02,150
Dragons. 
Real dances, Yes, that's right. 

1707
01:24:04,180 --> 01:24:08,980
And Aegon, of course, it's just 
common sense to if you kill the 

1708
01:24:08,980 --> 01:24:13,060
leaders of an army, then the 
army might fall apart or or lose

1709
01:24:13,060 --> 01:24:14,820
its cohesion or start 
retreating. 

1710
01:24:15,340 --> 01:24:18,820
Yeah, so he was aiming to cut 
the head off the snake, so to 

1711
01:24:18,820 --> 01:24:23,020
speak, even though Valerian's 
more of the snake here and it's 

1712
01:24:23,020 --> 01:24:26,220
more burning than cutting. 
But still, metaphor still works.

1713
01:24:26,660 --> 01:24:30,260
And he points out, yeah, it's 
it's just regular military 

1714
01:24:30,260 --> 01:24:32,630
logic. 
Killing the commanders of the 

1715
01:24:32,630 --> 01:24:35,710
other side is intuitive, right? 
That makes sense. 

1716
01:24:35,830 --> 01:24:38,870
It's been a been a thing forever
since pre Modern Warfare. 

1717
01:24:38,870 --> 01:24:41,310
I mean, I'm talking modern in 
this sense, and as well as 

1718
01:24:41,310 --> 01:24:44,030
regular modern our modern. 
You have this less than our 

1719
01:24:44,030 --> 01:24:47,350
Modern Warfare. 
We it's like a new thing. 

1720
01:24:47,430 --> 01:24:50,590
Rank is kind of subdued and 
camouflaged on modern uniforms 

1721
01:24:50,590 --> 01:24:52,750
because that once you start to 
have like. 

1722
01:24:53,310 --> 01:24:56,510
Range weapons and snipers and 
and planes or whatever they can 

1723
01:24:56,510 --> 01:24:58,790
see. 
You know, a big banner saying 

1724
01:24:58,790 --> 01:25:02,350
here is the leader. 
Usually in the past that would 

1725
01:25:02,350 --> 01:25:04,910
have meant, you know, rally to 
me, look here for commands. 

1726
01:25:04,910 --> 01:25:07,430
But now it means the bad guys 
are going to drop artillery 

1727
01:25:07,430 --> 01:25:09,510
there, which is exactly what 
happened here is going to get 

1728
01:25:09,510 --> 01:25:10,550
you. 
You're exactly right, Sean. 

1729
01:25:10,550 --> 01:25:12,870
That's the perfect analogy 
because that's what happened. 

1730
01:25:12,870 --> 01:25:19,550
You got these very visible and 
large and loud white flags with 

1731
01:25:19,550 --> 01:25:23,590
green hands on them, very 
rominently displayed at the 

1732
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:26,830
middle of the vanguard and the 
middle of the center. 

1733
01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:30,720
Of these, two of the four 
divisions of the army Remember 

1734
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:32,720
vanguard center, left and right,
right. 

1735
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,040
The center and the vanguard were
led by gardeners and they got 

1736
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,040
and the order of the green hand 
is in there midst as well, which

1737
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:41,200
have the same sigil. 
It's a white flag with green 

1738
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:43,920
hand for one time the order, the
green hands like maybe we 

1739
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:46,400
shouldn't look like the 
gardeners so much cuz that's 

1740
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:49,840
exactly what's getting targeted.
So Aegon probably has a pretty 

1741
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:54,230
easy time of like, yeah, right 
there, those guys like, OK, 

1742
01:25:54,230 --> 01:25:56,670
belaring whispers in his ear. 
Get those ones with the green 

1743
01:25:56,670 --> 01:25:58,470
hands. 
Just just just all the green 

1744
01:25:58,470 --> 01:26:00,150
hands. 
Target those banners. 

1745
01:26:00,150 --> 01:26:02,990
Leave the rest alone. 
Like it's like a coloring book 

1746
01:26:03,310 --> 01:26:06,750
set. 
Those ones on fire don't go over

1747
01:26:06,750 --> 01:26:10,190
the line, you know, color inside
the lines of that, you know, 

1748
01:26:10,550 --> 01:26:14,470
bathe it in flame. 
They just they marked it for him

1749
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,280
but it made his job easy. 
Like again This is why I was 

1750
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,520
pointed to said at the beginning
this is like the worst strategy 

1751
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:22,080
they could have used for him. 
They put themselves in a fire 

1752
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:30,120
trap and they marked who to kill
like loudly and and yeah, and 

1753
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,160
plainly. 
So it says he swooped down 

1754
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:38,550
repeatedly but were saying he 
swooped down repeatedly at the 

1755
01:26:38,550 --> 01:26:41,310
green hand banners like he 
wasn't just randomly here and 

1756
01:26:41,310 --> 01:26:42,990
there. 
Oh I'll do one over here. 

1757
01:26:42,990 --> 01:26:44,790
Let's let's hit these guys. 
They haven't been hit yet. 

1758
01:26:45,070 --> 01:26:46,510
No. 
I think it was very precise. 

1759
01:26:46,510 --> 01:26:49,910
I think it was very organized. 
And he had a he had a plan and 

1760
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:52,310
he wasn't like he had very 
little incentive to target the 

1761
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:54,270
levees. 
He wants to target the leaders 

1762
01:26:54,270 --> 01:26:55,790
and like why is he going after 
the peasants? 

1763
01:26:55,790 --> 01:26:57,590
Those are his. 
What's the point? 

1764
01:26:57,630 --> 01:26:59,590
Well, why would he do? 
That those are the people he 

1765
01:26:59,590 --> 01:27:01,310
wants to lead. 
Yeah, right. 

1766
01:27:01,390 --> 01:27:03,150
He wants those people to go back
home. 

1767
01:27:03,620 --> 01:27:07,340
And tend their horses and their 
farms and have kids and pay 

1768
01:27:07,340 --> 01:27:11,660
taxes and be ready to defend 
against the Ironborn or all 

1769
01:27:11,660 --> 01:27:13,660
these other things. 
He doesn't want them dead. 

1770
01:27:13,740 --> 01:27:14,900
Yeah, exactly. 
Yeah. 

1771
01:27:14,900 --> 01:27:17,380
So it makes so much sense the 
way this plays out. 

1772
01:27:17,420 --> 01:27:19,420
He had plenty of incentive to 
target the gardeners and very 

1773
01:27:19,420 --> 01:27:20,940
little incentive to target 
anyone else. 

1774
01:27:21,460 --> 01:27:23,420
There would have been chaos in 
those front lines at first. 

1775
01:27:23,420 --> 01:27:25,300
It would have been like, yeah, 
we're charging. 

1776
01:27:25,300 --> 01:27:26,660
Look at how small this target 
is. 

1777
01:27:26,660 --> 01:27:28,940
We got them. 
We we smashed the Targaryen, 

1778
01:27:28,940 --> 01:27:32,180
Spearm and then uh whoops the 
Dragons and and or just one 

1779
01:27:32,180 --> 01:27:35,510
dragon as it says. 
Moraxis and and Vega apparently 

1780
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:39,790
didn't torch the armies at all. 
They only did the fire trick 

1781
01:27:39,790 --> 01:27:43,310
here that we're about to have a 
quote so picture okay. 

1782
01:27:43,310 --> 01:27:46,230
So let's imagine the center and 
the the vanguard has charged. 

1783
01:27:46,230 --> 01:27:47,510
The center is charged behind 
them. 

1784
01:27:47,510 --> 01:27:51,990
Probably the right and the left 
are are still holding back a 

1785
01:27:51,990 --> 01:27:53,590
little bit or maybe they charge 
afterwards. 

1786
01:27:53,590 --> 01:27:56,470
I don't know that all 55,000 men
charged, but if so, there would 

1787
01:27:56,470 --> 01:27:59,110
still be some towards the back 
that would see what would be 

1788
01:27:59,110 --> 01:28:02,950
happening as the front part of 
the charge makes contact. 

1789
01:28:03,390 --> 01:28:04,910
They're probably cheering just 
like this. 

1790
01:28:04,910 --> 01:28:07,950
Front guys were were screaming 
and victory or an excitement or 

1791
01:28:07,950 --> 01:28:09,950
exaltation until things went 
bad. 

1792
01:28:10,470 --> 01:28:12,710
That first burst of flame would 
have really changed their 

1793
01:28:12,710 --> 01:28:13,790
outlook. 
They were like, whoa, that was 

1794
01:28:13,790 --> 01:28:16,590
bigger than I thought it would 
be, but meaning both the flame 

1795
01:28:16,590 --> 01:28:19,910
and the dragon and then it's 
black. 

1796
01:28:20,190 --> 01:28:23,030
The flame is black. 
It's unnatural. 

1797
01:28:23,590 --> 01:28:24,990
It's like, not. 
You're like, okay, I've never 

1798
01:28:24,990 --> 01:28:26,590
seen anything like that creature
before. 

1799
01:28:26,590 --> 01:28:28,950
And that what's coming out of 
its mouth is unlike any flame 

1800
01:28:28,950 --> 01:28:31,190
I've ever seen before. 
And it's hotter than anything 

1801
01:28:31,190 --> 01:28:33,870
I've ever felt before. 
And oh God, what have we done? 

1802
01:28:35,470 --> 01:28:37,910
Right? 
And like you said, Sean, maybe 

1803
01:28:37,910 --> 01:28:41,790
they had hope that he can't just
keep doing that, like he'll run 

1804
01:28:41,790 --> 01:28:44,590
out of flames. 
But Nope, as it kept coming. 

1805
01:28:44,710 --> 01:28:50,270
As it kept coming, they were 
like, uh oh, and then it gets 

1806
01:28:50,270 --> 01:28:53,360
worse. 
As grim as that was, they didn't

1807
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:57,040
know how badly they had it until
the Queens played their part. 

1808
01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:00,040
Quote. 
Rainey's and Vicenia set fires 

1809
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:05,040
upwind of the enemy, and behind 
them the dry grasses and stands 

1810
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:09,160
of wheat went up at once. 
The wind fanned the flames and 

1811
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:12,800
blew the smoke into the faces of
the advancing ranks of the two 

1812
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:16,000
kings. 
The scent of fire sent their 

1813
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,400
mounts into panic, and as the 
smoke thickened, horse and rider

1814
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:24,440
alike were blinded. 
Their ranks began to break as 

1815
01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:27,360
walls of fire rose on every side
of them. 

1816
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:32,560
Lord Mooten's men, safely upwind
of the conflagration, waited 

1817
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:36,440
with their bows and Spears and 
made short work of the burned 

1818
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:40,600
and burning men who came 
staggering from the inferno, 

1819
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,160
which really shows how 
engineered and planned all this 

1820
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:45,560
was. 
Before they had men waiting to 

1821
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:47,880
kill the ones emerging from the 
flames. 

1822
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:52,980
They had preset a group of dudes
to wait for that and these were 

1823
01:29:52,980 --> 01:29:55,780
the same men that were received 
the initial charge. 

1824
01:29:55,780 --> 01:29:57,940
A lot of them were cuz Lord 
Mooton was one of the as he says

1825
01:29:57,980 --> 01:29:59,860
he was one of the first to bend 
the knee and he was given 

1826
01:29:59,860 --> 01:30:04,580
command of the ground forces. 
So this was very engineered. 

1827
01:30:04,580 --> 01:30:06,380
They were like okay they're 
going to charge at you. 

1828
01:30:06,380 --> 01:30:07,900
You're going to take the initial
brunt. 

1829
01:30:07,900 --> 01:30:10,100
It's going to be difficult, but 
then we're going to emerge. 

1830
01:30:10,460 --> 01:30:14,740
Valerians going to start raking 
their main lines while Moraxis 

1831
01:30:14,740 --> 01:30:19,860
and Vagar do the encirclement 
with flames. 

1832
01:30:20,220 --> 01:30:23,070
The Mutton's men would have 
known where their exit would 

1833
01:30:23,070 --> 01:30:25,110
have been. 
Like here's where you're going 

1834
01:30:25,110 --> 01:30:27,390
to exit the conflagration. 
We're going to have a kind of an

1835
01:30:27,390 --> 01:30:30,470
area which will be defended by 
both. 

1836
01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:33,710
So you'll be able to move 
through this while anyone coming

1837
01:30:33,910 --> 01:30:37,310
after you will be able to pick 
off and the Dragons will be 

1838
01:30:37,310 --> 01:30:40,110
supporting that efforts. 
All the men probably knew this. 

1839
01:30:40,110 --> 01:30:41,950
They may have been coached on it
and they probably would have 

1840
01:30:41,950 --> 01:30:44,750
been just like, this is 
exciting. 

1841
01:30:45,270 --> 01:30:47,670
Like they may not have wanted to
be there, but they were probably

1842
01:30:47,670 --> 01:30:50,190
pretty happy with the way it was
played out. 

1843
01:30:50,190 --> 01:30:52,590
They're probably like, yeah, 
we're gonna win, we're gonna 

1844
01:30:52,750 --> 01:30:55,750
beat these guys and then be able
to experience victory and all 

1845
01:30:55,750 --> 01:30:59,390
that. 
So I really wonder, It's pretty 

1846
01:30:59,390 --> 01:31:01,870
clear what happened with the 
Vanguard in the center. 

1847
01:31:01,870 --> 01:31:03,710
They would have been the brunt 
of it. 

1848
01:31:03,710 --> 01:31:06,430
I'm wondering about the other 
two elements of the army and 

1849
01:31:06,430 --> 01:31:09,590
whether they all charged or 
whether they held back a little,

1850
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:11,840
and how this affected the 
encirclement. 

1851
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,040
Ultimately, doesn't make a huge 
difference, but it is still a 

1852
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,400
point of detail and curiosity 
that I have. 

1853
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:19,520
It's sort of like when you're at
a stoplight with, you know, six 

1854
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:22,080
or eight cars in front of you. 
You can see the light turn 

1855
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,080
green, but you still can't go, 
yet the car in front of you 

1856
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:26,800
hasn't gone. 
It takes a minute for everyone 

1857
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,440
to get moving, so those front 
couple cars charge. 

1858
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:33,800
Then a dragon burns him up in 
the last couple. 

1859
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:34,960
Cars don't charge. 
Yeah. 

1860
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:37,400
And the green and red really 
works there too because you've 

1861
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:42,840
got green for Gardner and go in 
the region then go stop stop red

1862
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:46,160
flames. 
Yep. 

1863
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:46,800
Yep. 
Yep. 

1864
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,160
That's that works really well. 
That's that's a really good one.

1865
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:49,960
Yeah. 
You can't charge until the 

1866
01:31:49,960 --> 01:31:51,960
people the only the person right
in front of you is charged. 

1867
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:53,480
Yes. 
So it would take a while to get 

1868
01:31:53,480 --> 01:31:54,200
going. 
Which would. 

1869
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,240
Which is why they had to let it 
get going, Which is why they had

1870
01:31:57,240 --> 01:31:59,040
to receive the. 
Charge in, the first couple cars

1871
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:00,480
would be coming, yeah. 
So you want to. 

1872
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:02,520
You want to match. 
My example of six or eight cars,

1873
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:04,440
they would have had 40 cars, 
right? 

1874
01:32:04,440 --> 01:32:06,680
Yeah, this big. 
I don't know quite how to if 

1875
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,440
every car represents 100 
soldiers or whatever, Yeah, 

1876
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:11,480
yeah. 
And Nino says, yeah, let's 

1877
01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:14,680
consider like, some of these 
soldiers that are on the winning

1878
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:17,200
side, you know, they, they still
might have nightmares, though, 

1879
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:18,400
even though they're on the 
winning side, they might have 

1880
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:20,240
nightmares, but all the 
screaming and trauma, they might

1881
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:22,680
not have taken a single wound 
and it still might, like, affect

1882
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:24,240
them. 
They might still like like 

1883
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:26,800
there's plenty of veterans, real
life veterans, who didn't take a

1884
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:28,600
wound but are traumatized by 
war. 

1885
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,040
Like their friend died. 
Maybe they didn't even see a 

1886
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:32,360
friend. 
I was still traumatizing because

1887
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:34,680
there's still human beings on 
the other side of that war that 

1888
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,200
probably don't want to be there 
either that didn't really have 

1889
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:40,640
any choice in being there. 
Or maybe they thought they were 

1890
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,240
fighting for a good cause 
because they've been misled, 

1891
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:46,880
which kind of maybe is a lot of 
these gardeners. 

1892
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:48,880
To them, it seems like a good 
cause. 

1893
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,200
They're defending their lands. 
This is a foreign conqueror to 

1894
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:52,520
them. 
This is some guy that just 

1895
01:32:53,060 --> 01:32:55,300
picked a fight for no good 
reason as far as they're 

1896
01:32:55,300 --> 01:32:58,260
concerned and yeah they're 
standing up for their kings that

1897
01:32:58,260 --> 01:33:01,260
have been there for 8000 years. 
That seems like a pretty in in 

1898
01:33:01,260 --> 01:33:03,700
in world that seems like you're 
the good guys. 

1899
01:33:03,700 --> 01:33:06,460
We're we're the defenders of our
territory. 

1900
01:33:06,460 --> 01:33:08,540
You know they don't know about 
Aegon's dream. 

1901
01:33:08,540 --> 01:33:10,620
If if that's even relevant at 
this point. 

1902
01:33:10,620 --> 01:33:12,740
If if Aegon even cared about 
that at this point, which I 

1903
01:33:12,740 --> 01:33:15,460
suspect he did but he might have
done all these things anyway. 

1904
01:33:15,860 --> 01:33:17,940
But they certainly don't know 
about it regardless of what's in

1905
01:33:17,940 --> 01:33:21,420
his head. 
So that's not going to be any 

1906
01:33:21,980 --> 01:33:26,020
balm for their burns afterwards.
If they survived like, oh, you 

1907
01:33:26,020 --> 01:33:27,860
had a good reason. 
Well, Gee, thanks. 

1908
01:33:27,860 --> 01:33:31,580
You know, that'll happen in my 
lifetime, I'm sure. 

1909
01:33:31,940 --> 01:33:34,260
So Nina asked the question, how 
much did it bother them? 

1910
01:33:34,340 --> 01:33:36,460
How much did it bother the 
winners, not just the the 

1911
01:33:36,460 --> 01:33:39,300
soldiers, but like Aegon himself
and the sisters, were they 

1912
01:33:39,300 --> 01:33:43,740
bothered by this or were they 
just so above the common folk, 

1913
01:33:43,740 --> 01:33:47,540
so superior thinking about 
themselves that they didn't, you

1914
01:33:47,540 --> 01:33:51,120
know, like a they're able to 
push that aside that they don't 

1915
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:53,880
have sympathy for lesser humans 
or something like that or they 

1916
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,920
just that royal with their 
thinking that they can have that

1917
01:33:57,920 --> 01:33:59,800
level of contempt for lesser 
life. 

1918
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,080
You know, I don't know. 
This is something that we don't 

1919
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:06,360
know very well about Agon. 
We don't know about Rainey's. 

1920
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:08,760
I I kind of have my doubts about
the Senia. 

1921
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:10,760
We know a little more about her.
I kind of doubt she was too 

1922
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:12,160
concerned with this kind of 
thing. 

1923
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:14,480
But maybe you know it's 
possible. 

1924
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:18,000
Maybe you know she there's The 
public persona isn't always what

1925
01:34:19,710 --> 01:34:23,150
what's behind the eyes, right? 
Like what's going on in your 

1926
01:34:23,150 --> 01:34:25,070
mind might be different than 
what you present the world. 

1927
01:34:25,150 --> 01:34:27,790
That's pretty common. 
I think about a couple. 

1928
01:34:27,790 --> 01:34:29,870
I mean, I could have a million 
thoughts on this, but a couple 

1929
01:34:29,870 --> 01:34:33,630
that kind of mind quickly are 
the movie Unforgiven. 

1930
01:34:33,710 --> 01:34:36,670
There's this, this young kid 
who's going to get the bad guys,

1931
01:34:36,670 --> 01:34:39,790
you know, and he finally catches
one, kills him. 

1932
01:34:41,050 --> 01:34:43,290
And it's the first person you 
ever killed, and he's kind of 

1933
01:34:43,290 --> 01:34:46,090
sick to his stomach over like, I
even though he and his 

1934
01:34:46,530 --> 01:34:48,770
ostensibly at least, that was a 
bad guy, he still is not 

1935
01:34:48,770 --> 01:34:50,050
comfortable with having killed 
someone. 

1936
01:34:50,130 --> 01:34:53,370
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, it was a it was a Western 

1937
01:34:53,370 --> 01:34:54,890
that kind of challenged a lot of
Troy. 

1938
01:34:54,930 --> 01:34:57,410
It was almost like a Martin 
style Western was sort of 

1939
01:34:57,970 --> 01:34:59,690
sometimes they would have a hard
time getting on a horse. 

1940
01:34:59,690 --> 01:35:01,730
It wouldn't hold still like 
everyone did, just jump on a 

1941
01:35:01,730 --> 01:35:03,610
horse and ride off the kind of 
the the. 

1942
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:06,640
Reality of some of the stuff was
presented there, including what 

1943
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,360
it's like to kill someone and 
think about Robert McNamara and 

1944
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:12,040
that documentary Fog of War, 
when he's kind of reflecting on.

1945
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:15,440
That's going to bring it up here
anyway because he he came up, he

1946
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:18,680
was just this young Air Force, 
you know, I think he was 

1947
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,080
Lieutenant or something, but he 
was just tasked with trying to 

1948
01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:23,520
figure out how to most 
efficiently use the planes and 

1949
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:25,320
bombs. 
And to him, it was like this 

1950
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:27,000
math problem. 
Oh, and I figured it out. 

1951
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,600
We just use incendiaries and 
it'll burn all the oxygen in the

1952
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:33,890
air and kill everyone. 
Yay, the airport. 

1953
01:35:33,970 --> 01:35:36,810
Said, OK, let's do it. 
And it just killed everyone in 

1954
01:35:36,810 --> 01:35:39,530
Dresden and killed half the 
population of Tokyo and just 

1955
01:35:39,530 --> 01:35:43,250
kept doing it every night, week 
after week in Germany and Japan 

1956
01:35:43,250 --> 01:35:46,250
and and now and so this movie 
Fog of War is interviewing him 

1957
01:35:46,250 --> 01:35:49,730
and he did a lot of other he put
seatbelts in in cars like he was

1958
01:35:49,730 --> 01:35:51,850
responsible for that. 
He did a lot of the great things

1959
01:35:51,850 --> 01:35:54,610
through history. 
But he there was just this 

1960
01:35:54,610 --> 01:35:56,890
moment in his interview, in the 
fog of war, where he's just 

1961
01:35:56,890 --> 01:35:59,010
reflecting like, yeah, I came up
with firebombing, huh? 

1962
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:02,520
You know, I might not have been 
the pilot that dropped the bomb 

1963
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:05,120
or the general that gave the 
order, but maybe someone else 

1964
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:06,960
would have come up with any. 
But it's hard for him not to, 

1965
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:11,160
like, think about the maybe 
literally million people that 

1966
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:13,640
died to that, you know? 
And so, yeah, you wonder, like, 

1967
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:16,440
does Agon feel like, did he was 
like, well, I had to do it. 

1968
01:36:16,440 --> 01:36:18,560
It's like, that's how he 
justifies it in his mind, you 

1969
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:21,510
know? 
Yeah, they killed those. 4000 to

1970
01:36:21,510 --> 01:36:24,830
save the other 4000, killed 
those 4000 to bring safety to 

1971
01:36:24,830 --> 01:36:26,390
the realm, stability to the 
realm. 

1972
01:36:26,390 --> 01:36:28,230
Like different ways you might 
justify it. 

1973
01:36:28,230 --> 01:36:30,190
May maybe just literally not 
think about it. 

1974
01:36:30,190 --> 01:36:32,470
Maybe he has justified, Maybe 
the justifications help him, but

1975
01:36:32,470 --> 01:36:33,910
he still has doubts. 
Like, well, maybe you know, what

1976
01:36:33,910 --> 01:36:35,630
if it was just a dream? 
What if I was wrong? 

1977
01:36:35,630 --> 01:36:38,630
You know, Like, I don't know. 
He doesn't seem like the kind of

1978
01:36:38,630 --> 01:36:41,390
guy that had a lot of doubts, 
but that doesn't mean he had 

1979
01:36:41,390 --> 01:36:44,330
none, you know? 
Yeah, and maybe he did have 

1980
01:36:44,330 --> 01:36:45,810
down. 
Maybe that's why he was kept in 

1981
01:36:45,810 --> 01:36:47,690
so close to the chest, because 
he didn't want people to see 

1982
01:36:47,690 --> 01:36:50,730
his, his, you know, his lack, 
his lack of confidence, when he 

1983
01:36:50,730 --> 01:36:53,010
was so important to him project 
supreme confidence. 

1984
01:36:53,010 --> 01:36:54,570
He didn't want to show any 
cracks. 

1985
01:36:54,570 --> 01:36:58,050
In that And maybe Agon, who 
needs to be in his leadership 

1986
01:36:58,050 --> 01:37:03,250
role and has accepted the losses
on the short term for the big 

1987
01:37:03,250 --> 01:37:06,090
scale. 
Or maybe he has some a dream 

1988
01:37:06,090 --> 01:37:09,130
that he's trying to fulfill 
some, you know, destiny. 

1989
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:12,960
But what about that Bowman? 
What about that Bowman from the 

1990
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:16,480
Crown lands who's just killing 
people who are screaming in 

1991
01:37:16,480 --> 01:37:19,160
flames? 
Like, how do they feel a week 

1992
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,360
later, a year later, you know, 
Yeah, hotels. 

1993
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:23,480
Well, that guy was burning. 
I put him out of his misery like

1994
01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:24,200
he he was. 
Yeah. 

1995
01:37:24,440 --> 01:37:26,400
And that's when I might. 
Rationalize it. 

1996
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:29,080
Or just maybe it's a good way 
even to rationalize or justify. 

1997
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:30,680
Yeah, I don't know. 
I don't know what I would tell 

1998
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:32,800
myself if I was in that spot. 
Another interesting thing about 

1999
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:34,560
this too, is like, yeah, it 
looks maybe it looks a little 

2000
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:35,960
less chivalrous. 
Maybe it's not as quite as 

2001
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:38,160
honorable. 
Maybe that's why the the trap 

2002
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:41,680
nature of it all was down, 
played by the sources Nina 

2003
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:47,440
points out a great parallel Oris
beat King Argalac in in oneonone

2004
01:37:47,440 --> 01:37:49,760
combat that looks really 
honorable weather. 

2005
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:53,400
And we put out in our episode on
Battle Last Storm a lot of 

2006
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,640
suggestions that this maybe 
didn't go quite so smoothly. 

2007
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:01,920
Maybe it was a little like after
the battle they dressed it up a 

2008
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,520
little to make it seem a little 
more, even, a little more noble 

2009
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,950
on Oris's side. 
Our Glock had been thrown from 

2010
01:38:07,950 --> 01:38:10,630
his horse and fighting all day 
like he probably was have been 

2011
01:38:10,630 --> 01:38:11,950
wounded already. 
Like, was he really? 

2012
01:38:11,950 --> 01:38:13,910
He wasn't at full strength. 
He's a lot older like, so it 

2013
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:16,030
really wasn't that even. 
But the sources kind of make it 

2014
01:38:16,030 --> 01:38:18,230
seem a little more even and make
it seem more noble, which is 

2015
01:38:18,230 --> 01:38:20,870
like, yeah, they would do that, 
they would do that. 

2016
01:38:20,870 --> 01:38:22,790
That's the winners that they're 
writing about. 

2017
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:27,470
So the same thing here, like 
downplaying the level of 

2018
01:38:27,470 --> 01:38:30,070
subterfuge and cunning that was 
used, but also you. 

2019
01:38:30,070 --> 01:38:35,050
But there's no portraying this 
as Aegon beat Merne one-on-one 

2020
01:38:35,050 --> 01:38:38,490
in a fair fight that that can't.
You can't sell that the period. 

2021
01:38:38,490 --> 01:38:40,690
Like there's no version of that 
that works. 

2022
01:38:40,690 --> 01:38:44,690
They wouldn't even try that. 
So does anyone like, look at 

2023
01:38:44,690 --> 01:38:47,690
that little side eye Like, yeah 
this was kind of UN chivalrous. 

2024
01:38:47,690 --> 01:38:49,410
This wasn't, this wasn't a fair 
fight. 

2025
01:38:49,410 --> 01:38:50,770
Yes. 
Like we have to bend the knee to

2026
01:38:50,770 --> 01:38:52,450
this guy because he has his big 
ass dragon. 

2027
01:38:52,450 --> 01:38:55,050
What else can we do? 
But I don't know. 

2028
01:38:55,050 --> 01:38:56,050
It might. 
It doesn't. 

2029
01:38:56,290 --> 01:39:00,010
In some ways it doesn't fit into
the codes of chivalry which are 

2030
01:39:00,010 --> 01:39:03,200
important in Westeros, you know,
I know they, I know that these 

2031
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:06,880
things can be convenient, like 
chivalry is often just forgotten

2032
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:09,520
for expedients. 
And this could be easily be one 

2033
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:10,960
of those times. 
But I think it's a fair thing to

2034
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,840
bring up and like some people 
might have, it might have 

2035
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:16,600
rankled the way that this was 
done because it was flames and 

2036
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:20,280
Dragons and not two enemies 
meeting on the field of battle 

2037
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:22,760
to see who's strong. 
Those are unnatural supernatural

2038
01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:26,200
elements which will later be 
complained about by the faith 

2039
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:29,760
will say, ah, the incest, the 
drag, these monstrous Dragons. 

2040
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:32,160
This stuff is unnatural. 
It's not of the seven. 

2041
01:39:33,100 --> 01:39:36,580
We shouldn't guess that those 
attitudes only came after they 

2042
01:39:36,580 --> 01:39:38,900
were beaten by the Dragons. 
I think some of that probably 

2043
01:39:38,900 --> 01:39:41,660
started before. 
I like those points, but a 

2044
01:39:41,660 --> 01:39:43,860
couple, I don't know, 
counterpoints that might have 

2045
01:39:43,860 --> 01:39:47,340
made it all the more important 
for Aegon to do this is like, I 

2046
01:39:47,340 --> 01:39:48,540
don't care if you beat me 
one-on-one. 

2047
01:39:48,540 --> 01:39:49,500
That's not what's happening 
here. 

2048
01:39:49,700 --> 01:39:52,300
I'm coming with my Dragons. 
You better kneel, right? 

2049
01:39:52,300 --> 01:39:53,820
Part of what he's trying to 
prove. 

2050
01:39:53,820 --> 01:39:56,940
This point here is like Sir 
Orius and Argalac. 

2051
01:39:56,940 --> 01:39:58,820
They can do whatever. 
But I would have gone over there

2052
01:39:58,820 --> 01:40:00,620
with my Dragons if before he's 
hadn't won. 

2053
01:40:00,860 --> 01:40:02,380
Right? 
Like, I'm going to win, you 

2054
01:40:02,380 --> 01:40:06,980
know? 
And furthermore, it makes it all

2055
01:40:06,980 --> 01:40:10,660
the more important for Aegon to 
do what he did is be chivalrous,

2056
01:40:10,700 --> 01:40:14,980
otherwise he does win. 
Okay, you bent the knee. 

2057
01:40:14,980 --> 01:40:16,780
Now go back to your castle and 
serve me. 

2058
01:40:16,780 --> 01:40:20,260
I'm not going to continue to. 
Maybe in this battle I would. 

2059
01:40:20,260 --> 01:40:22,700
It was unfair, but I'm going to 
be fair afterwards. 

2060
01:40:23,180 --> 01:40:24,620
Yeah, I like that. 
That's a good point. 

2061
01:40:24,620 --> 01:40:27,070
Like he. 
Make all the reason to be more 

2062
01:40:27,070 --> 01:40:28,590
chivalrous outside of the 
battlefield. 

2063
01:40:28,590 --> 01:40:31,150
If there's any doubt on it, 
that's a great point and we will

2064
01:40:31,150 --> 01:40:34,070
see in a couple of cases. 
A gun does fight people hand to 

2065
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:36,150
hand at least a couple times. 
I don't think it's happened yet,

2066
01:40:36,510 --> 01:40:39,750
but it will happen. 
So that might be part of why to 

2067
01:40:39,790 --> 01:40:44,150
to counteract an image that was 
gained here at the Field of 

2068
01:40:44,150 --> 01:40:44,710
fire. 
Like okay. 

2069
01:40:44,710 --> 01:40:47,590
I'm going to balance this out 
with some victories with black 

2070
01:40:47,590 --> 01:40:50,150
fire, take out a few people and 
one-on-one duels just to prove 

2071
01:40:50,150 --> 01:40:53,030
that hey, I am dangerous without
my it's not all the dragon. 

2072
01:40:53,070 --> 01:40:55,720
Yes, the dragon is important. 
But I I'm. 

2073
01:40:55,920 --> 01:40:58,680
I'm a good warrior too. 
It's not all the dragon, It's 

2074
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,400
99%. 
Yeah, right. 

2075
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:05,000
All the dragon. 
So Nina, returning to Nina's 

2076
01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:09,160
point about feeling conflicted 
and using this as a parallel to 

2077
01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:11,920
nuclear weapons, which is 
something that's come up several

2078
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:14,080
times in the fandom over the 
years. 

2079
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,120
Nina's done it before. 
I think we've done it before, 

2080
01:41:16,480 --> 01:41:18,880
that it's a a reasonable 
parallel. 

2081
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:21,580
It's back in. 
Current thinking, I suppose 

2082
01:41:21,580 --> 01:41:24,180
because of, you know movies like
Oppenheim role, that one in 

2083
01:41:24,180 --> 01:41:26,660
particular. 
But it's come up before. 

2084
01:41:26,700 --> 01:41:30,940
And George grew up during the 
era where during the nuclear 

2085
01:41:30,940 --> 01:41:36,540
panic era when nukes were new 
and nobody knew like whether 

2086
01:41:36,540 --> 01:41:38,940
people would be able to hold 
back like, oh, should humanity 

2087
01:41:38,940 --> 01:41:41,540
really have those. 
It's kind of a bad thing to be 

2088
01:41:41,540 --> 01:41:43,420
out there. 
You're not wrong. 

2089
01:41:43,420 --> 01:41:45,740
Like one of those falls in the 
hands of the wrong person. 

2090
01:41:45,740 --> 01:41:47,340
Yeah, like someone who's 
unstable. 

2091
01:41:47,340 --> 01:41:48,900
Like, imagine. 
Like look what happens with Meg 

2092
01:41:48,900 --> 01:41:52,210
or gets a dragon. 
Like, he goes around and just 

2093
01:41:52,210 --> 01:41:54,650
destroys things. 
I mean, heck, even these sane 

2094
01:41:54,650 --> 01:41:58,170
Targaryens level that kind of 
destruction on Dorn. 

2095
01:41:58,170 --> 01:42:02,930
So it it's Nina suggests maybe 
George wanted some readers to at

2096
01:42:02,970 --> 01:42:06,690
least think about those 
parallels, or at least have the 

2097
01:42:06,690 --> 01:42:08,730
potential to notice them if they
come up. 

2098
01:42:08,770 --> 01:42:10,690
Maybe not. 
Maybe not as direct, but maybe 

2099
01:42:11,170 --> 01:42:17,170
the ability to unleash total 
destruction is maybe itself. 

2100
01:42:18,050 --> 01:42:21,410
An unethical thing, just using 
it, The having the ability to 

2101
01:42:21,410 --> 01:42:23,810
use it as a deterrent is one 
thing, but actually using it as 

2102
01:42:23,810 --> 01:42:24,810
something else. 
So it's yeah, it's an 

2103
01:42:24,810 --> 01:42:27,730
interesting thing to ponder in 
the modern world, but also to 

2104
01:42:27,730 --> 01:42:30,970
apply to their world and and 
with try to use their sense of 

2105
01:42:30,970 --> 01:42:32,570
ethics and how that might have 
applied. 

2106
01:42:32,730 --> 01:42:35,170
All right. 
So as we said, the battle itself

2107
01:42:36,290 --> 01:42:37,490
didn't. 
There's not much else to say 

2108
01:42:37,490 --> 01:42:40,050
about the actual battle. 
The men were surrounded by 

2109
01:42:40,050 --> 01:42:42,890
flames. 
A lot of them were burned. 

2110
01:42:42,890 --> 01:42:45,970
A lot of them were killed. 
But maybe not as many as we 

2111
01:42:45,970 --> 01:42:48,810
might think. 
Here is the full aftermath 

2112
01:42:49,250 --> 01:42:51,250
quote. 
The Field of Fire. 

2113
01:42:51,250 --> 01:42:55,650
The battle was named afterward. 
More than 4000 men died in the 

2114
01:42:55,650 --> 01:42:58,690
flames. 
Another thousand perished by 

2115
01:42:58,690 --> 01:43:03,850
sword and spear and arrow. 10s 
of thousands suffered burns. 

2116
01:43:04,180 --> 01:43:07,420
Some so bad that they would 
remain scarred for life. 

2117
01:43:07,580 --> 01:43:11,220
King Merne the 9th was amongst 
the dead, together with his 

2118
01:43:11,220 --> 01:43:15,540
sons, grandsons, brothers, 
cousins and other kin. 

2119
01:43:15,860 --> 01:43:18,780
One nephew survived for three 
days. 

2120
01:43:19,220 --> 01:43:23,500
When he died of his burns, house
gardener died with him. 

2121
01:43:23,660 --> 01:43:27,660
King Lauren of The Rock lived, 
riding through a wall of flame 

2122
01:43:27,660 --> 01:43:31,100
and smoke to safety when he saw 
the battle lost. 

2123
01:43:31,620 --> 01:43:34,700
The Targaryens lost fewer than 
100 men. 

2124
01:43:35,140 --> 01:43:39,500
Queen Wasenya took an arrow in 
one shoulder, but soon recovered

2125
01:43:40,140 --> 01:43:43,340
as the Dragons gorged themselves
on the dead. 

2126
01:43:43,700 --> 01:43:47,940
Aegon commanded that the swords 
of the slain be gathered up and 

2127
01:43:47,940 --> 01:43:52,140
sent downriver. 4000 men dead, 
which is a huge number of 

2128
01:43:52,420 --> 01:43:55,380
people, but not a big percentage
of the army. 

2129
01:43:55,500 --> 01:43:59,620
So that's 7000 dead to 
dragonflame and then or 7% dead 

2130
01:43:59,620 --> 01:44:01,830
to dragonflame. 
And then another thousand killed

2131
01:44:01,830 --> 01:44:05,950
by swords and arrows and Spears.
So it's only about 8%, nine 

2132
01:44:05,950 --> 01:44:09,510
percent of of the whole forces 
that were on the field there. 

2133
01:44:09,710 --> 01:44:12,110
So low casualties isn't unusual 
in ancient battles. 

2134
01:44:12,110 --> 01:44:16,630
That's actually fairly normal. 
But this isn't even necessarily 

2135
01:44:16,630 --> 01:44:17,870
a low amount of casualties in 
that side. 

2136
01:44:17,870 --> 01:44:21,590
But it is a low amount, a low 
percentage, to have wiped out 

2137
01:44:21,590 --> 01:44:23,990
all the gardeners. 
Given that all the gardeners 

2138
01:44:23,990 --> 01:44:25,550
were wiped out, it's a kind of a
low percentage. 

2139
01:44:25,550 --> 01:44:28,150
So, which really emphasizes what
we were saying about them being 

2140
01:44:28,150 --> 01:44:29,910
targeted. 
All those banners and 

2141
01:44:29,910 --> 01:44:33,830
everything's, it's also a huge, 
huge ratio of losses on one side

2142
01:44:33,830 --> 01:44:37,390
to the other. 
Yes, yes, yes, very true. 

2143
01:44:37,470 --> 01:44:40,750
Now 40 to one or something when 
they were when the when the side

2144
01:44:40,750 --> 01:44:43,750
that lost 40 to one had 
outnumbered the other side 5:00 

2145
01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:46,030
to 1:00. 
That's an incredibly lopsided. 

2146
01:44:46,230 --> 01:44:48,190
Yeah. 
Now, Anita points out this is 

2147
01:44:48,190 --> 01:44:50,990
probably a little narrative 
economy on here, this there. 

2148
01:44:50,990 --> 01:44:54,030
It's kind of hard to imagine 
there were no Gardner cousins 

2149
01:44:54,030 --> 01:44:56,430
just elsewhere, like all of them
were on the battlefield. 

2150
01:44:56,430 --> 01:45:01,290
That's a little hard to swallow 
and no nephew or wife or 

2151
01:45:01,290 --> 01:45:03,530
daughter back. 
Home well the wives will account

2152
01:45:03,530 --> 01:45:06,010
for separately but yes still 
even that you like both of the 

2153
01:45:06,010 --> 01:45:08,170
grandsons were old enough to be 
in the battle on the field of 

2154
01:45:08,170 --> 01:45:11,250
battle but no grandsons that 
weren't you know it was like 

2155
01:45:11,810 --> 01:45:14,610
yeah so it's a it is kind of 
convenient but that's that's 

2156
01:45:14,610 --> 01:45:17,130
fine you know that it's not it's
not unrealistic but it's 

2157
01:45:17,130 --> 01:45:20,130
definitely like maybe a little 
bit of author thumb on the scale

2158
01:45:20,130 --> 01:45:22,490
there it's maybe a little 
unrealistic but still it's a 

2159
01:45:22,490 --> 01:45:25,610
little it's a we can well we can
write in some more here we can. 

2160
01:45:26,440 --> 01:45:30,200
Believe that there were other 
cousins out there that were that

2161
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:33,000
the Tyrells went and did 
something to they're like, well,

2162
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:34,880
if we want to call it on to 
power, we better get rid of 

2163
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:37,280
these other gardeners. 
And it's just not written in the

2164
01:45:37,280 --> 01:45:38,920
history books that way cuz it 
looks bad. 

2165
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:41,240
It's the same thing like oh so 
all the gardeners were hunted 

2166
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:43,680
down and killed afterwards. 
That looks bad. 

2167
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:46,560
That doesn't look, that doesn't 
kind of realm agons trying to, 

2168
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:50,960
you know. 
Be perceived as running. 

2169
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:52,960
He doesn't want that. 
He doesn't want to be the guy 

2170
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:55,040
who's executing people in front.
He wants people to bow to him 

2171
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:58,480
because he's strong. 
Not to bow to him because, or 

2172
01:45:58,480 --> 01:46:01,920
else you know, tyrannical. 
Yes, that's the Megor that comes

2173
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:03,520
later. 
Megor does those things later. 

2174
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:05,760
He's didn't learn that subtlety.
He didn't learn those 

2175
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:08,000
differences. 
I can imagine there being some 

2176
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,440
gardeners out there that are 
like, you know, actually my last

2177
01:46:11,440 --> 01:46:14,840
name is Flower. 
Yeah, let's just avoid this 

2178
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:15,760
whole. 
Yeah, I'm a bastard. 

2179
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:17,640
No, really. 
Yeah, my mom and dad were not 

2180
01:46:17,640 --> 01:46:19,720
married. 
Escaped the castle with some 

2181
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,640
silver and I've got enough to 
buy a horse and that's good 

2182
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:24,160
enough for me. 
Yeah, now I. 

2183
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:26,240
Need to point out how this has 
happened in other places too. 

2184
01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:29,040
Like there's George is in the 
past been a little bit 

2185
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:31,240
dismissive about the potential 
for other Starks being around. 

2186
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:32,760
He's like, yeah, there's 
probably some Stark cousins in 

2187
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:34,760
the North somewhere, but that's 
all you know. 

2188
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:37,680
That's it, You know, it would be
hard for it to be otherwise, 

2189
01:46:37,680 --> 01:46:39,840
considering you know this. 
The bloodlines don't just 

2190
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:41,880
vanish, you know, like this. 
Their Stark cousins married in 

2191
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:43,920
these other houses long ago. 
That bloodline has to still 

2192
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:46,160
exist somehow, you know, even if
it's been kind of forgotten, 

2193
01:46:46,160 --> 01:46:47,320
because it's been hundreds of 
years. 

2194
01:46:47,980 --> 01:46:50,500
But yeah, there's like Tully's 
and Aaron, she says the same 

2195
01:46:50,500 --> 01:46:52,180
thing kind of happens. 
It's just, yeah, there there 

2196
01:46:52,180 --> 01:46:53,860
would probably be some other 
examples out there. 

2197
01:46:54,700 --> 01:46:57,820
But on the other hand, if we're 
pointing it that way, the 

2198
01:46:57,820 --> 01:46:59,700
gardeners really did put 
themselves in the thick of it. 

2199
01:46:59,700 --> 01:47:02,060
They were that the gardeners 
were all piled into the two 

2200
01:47:02,060 --> 01:47:06,540
frontal positions and charged 
right at Balarian or charged 

2201
01:47:06,540 --> 01:47:09,020
right at the army which and 
advertising themselves. 

2202
01:47:09,020 --> 01:47:11,220
So. 
So there is, it's not. 

2203
01:47:11,220 --> 01:47:13,940
That's part of why it's at least
somewhat believable. 

2204
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:18,120
And I can also believe they even
brought 7 year olds with them 

2205
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:18,800
too. 
I can. 

2206
01:47:18,800 --> 01:47:19,960
Believe that's true. 
Yeah. 

2207
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:22,200
You want them to see, even 
confident enough that they would

2208
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:24,120
have brought him just to be part
of the adventure. 

2209
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:26,560
Just Ned. 
How old was Bran when he Ned 

2210
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:28,400
brought him to see the head be 
chopped off, you know? 

2211
01:47:28,440 --> 01:47:29,160
Seven. 
Yeah. 

2212
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:31,240
Seven years old. 
You're right. 

2213
01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:33,960
You're not wrong. 8 and 9 year 
olds. 10 year olds are 

2214
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:37,160
occasionally in battle. 
Yeah, like Agon and Amon. 

2215
01:47:37,160 --> 01:47:38,880
Blackfire died at the Red Grass 
Field. 

2216
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:42,080
They were Damon Squires. 
They were like, what, 11-12? 

2217
01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:45,490
Maybe 13 thirteens. 
Getting into the range of less 

2218
01:47:45,490 --> 01:47:48,050
crazy but still that is really 
young to be in battle. 

2219
01:47:48,050 --> 01:47:52,170
Geez. 
And so they stuck together in 

2220
01:47:52,170 --> 01:47:54,250
battle, which is normal for 
houses like they they do. 

2221
01:47:54,250 --> 01:47:57,010
They like you said you have your
banner so you know where your 

2222
01:47:57,010 --> 01:48:00,770
people are which work, which 
backfires in a spot like this 

2223
01:48:00,770 --> 01:48:06,050
when there's you know targeting 
and weaponry that can pick that 

2224
01:48:06,050 --> 01:48:09,130
out which is also what happened.
So, so it was yet yet another 

2225
01:48:09,130 --> 01:48:12,050
example of why this was a 
horrible strategic error. 

2226
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:14,840
By the army of the two Kings, So
many of these things that were 

2227
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:17,640
very normal for them were were 
huge disadvantages. 

2228
01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:20,200
Another one that was wiped out, 
Lord Armand Peak. 

2229
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:22,400
The Peaks weren't wiped out 
entirely, but Lord Armand Peak 

2230
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:24,080
and his all of his sons were 
killed. 

2231
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:26,200
So it was like a cousin that 
inherited here. 

2232
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:29,400
So there was none of this 
writing off the Cousins for the 

2233
01:48:29,400 --> 01:48:31,000
Peaks, but they were for the 
Gardeners. 

2234
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:33,760
But again, no one would probably
hunt down and kill the extra 

2235
01:48:33,760 --> 01:48:36,800
Peaks, except maybe other Peaks 
that wanted to make sure that 

2236
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:39,920
they got it all for themselves. 
The entire order of the Green 

2237
01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:43,270
Hand was wiped out. 
That that makes more sense to 

2238
01:48:43,270 --> 01:48:45,550
me, cuz they're a martial order.
They would all be on the 

2239
01:48:45,550 --> 01:48:47,870
battlefield. 
There might be like some scribes

2240
01:48:47,870 --> 01:48:51,870
and retired guys, but like those
dudes would have just died out. 

2241
01:48:52,190 --> 01:48:54,310
It's not like your sons don't 
join the order automatically. 

2242
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:56,750
It's not like a it's not a 
hereditary thing. 

2243
01:48:57,490 --> 01:49:00,330
Not a There wouldn't have been 
enough left over to maintain the

2244
01:49:00,330 --> 01:49:02,730
order anymore, even if some 
random people. 

2245
01:49:03,050 --> 01:49:05,330
And technically the Mandalay 
still say it exists and it's 

2246
01:49:05,330 --> 01:49:07,290
them. 
They still claim more membership

2247
01:49:07,290 --> 01:49:08,810
in there. 
They had already gone N well 

2248
01:49:08,810 --> 01:49:10,490
before this battle. 
Lucky for them. 

2249
01:49:11,010 --> 01:49:13,210
And they're like good. 
Other reason why we're glad 

2250
01:49:13,210 --> 01:49:14,690
we're up in the north. 
We would have been on the field 

2251
01:49:14,690 --> 01:49:17,690
of fire right there with them, 
and our little greenish mermaid 

2252
01:49:17,690 --> 01:49:19,530
might look a little too much 
like a green hand from a 

2253
01:49:19,530 --> 01:49:21,330
distance. 
So that's a good thing. 

2254
01:49:22,010 --> 01:49:24,330
Like, Yep, woof woo. 
Yeah, we dodged the. 

2255
01:49:24,890 --> 01:49:27,400
I would say a bullet but a. 
Burst of flame. 

2256
01:49:27,400 --> 01:49:29,160
Fire. 
Bowling fire, blast. 

2257
01:49:29,160 --> 01:49:32,440
As for the rest, so that the 
survivors we're talking about 

2258
01:49:32,640 --> 01:49:36,280
when I say the rest, all those 
permanent burn scars, 10s of 

2259
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:37,880
thousands it says had burn 
scars. 

2260
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,760
That's a way to keep the memory 
alive for generations. 

2261
01:49:40,760 --> 01:49:43,600
That's a way to prove if you're 
one of those dudes at the bar 

2262
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:47,240
claiming to have been there, 
that's one way to kind of back 

2263
01:49:47,240 --> 01:49:50,720
your your tail up that you like.
Look at the burns to prove I was

2264
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:51,520
there. 
These old. 

2265
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:52,880
Do these look like normal burns 
to you? 

2266
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:54,560
No. 
Those are dragon fire burns. 

2267
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:57,830
I took a direct hit. 
From valerian of my arm, that's 

2268
01:49:57,830 --> 01:50:02,230
why my arm doesn't look right. 
Yo, 30,000 in total surrendered.

2269
01:50:03,270 --> 01:50:06,870
So with 4000 killed by flame and
1000 killed by conventional 

2270
01:50:06,870 --> 01:50:10,750
weapons, that means as many as 
20,000 got away because 55,000 

2271
01:50:10,750 --> 01:50:12,790
on the battlefield and 30,000 
surrendered. 

2272
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:14,270
So that's like, that's a lot Who
got away? 

2273
01:50:14,270 --> 01:50:17,950
And the ones who didn't get away
were added to Eggon's army, 

2274
01:50:17,950 --> 01:50:21,390
which immediately marched N to 
confront Torin which we'll be 

2275
01:50:21,390 --> 01:50:23,750
discussing next time. 
So yeah. 

2276
01:50:24,230 --> 01:50:27,150
Look at that. 
It's very common for real life 

2277
01:50:27,150 --> 01:50:30,430
sources to exaggerate, to under 
report their losses. 

2278
01:50:30,550 --> 01:50:33,110
This might be one of those 
times. 100 deaths for the 

2279
01:50:33,110 --> 01:50:34,830
Targaryens is all that's 
reported in an arrow in the 

2280
01:50:34,830 --> 01:50:39,430
shoulder for Vicenia. 
But it's possible it might 

2281
01:50:39,430 --> 01:50:40,670
actually be that small. 
I can. 

2282
01:50:40,670 --> 01:50:42,670
I can kind of believe it. 
I feel like it was probably more

2283
01:50:42,670 --> 01:50:46,110
than that because that that big 
old iron fists did smash into 

2284
01:50:46,110 --> 01:50:49,640
their front lines. 
And then the dragon started 

2285
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:50,880
coming down. 
So that just that initial 

2286
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:52,440
charge. 
I feel like that alone could 

2287
01:50:52,440 --> 01:50:54,800
have taken out more than 100. 
But maybe not, maybe not. 

2288
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:57,760
You know, talk about a bunch of 
swords for the Iron Throne, 

2289
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:01,560
right? 
That's a lot of swords. 

2290
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:05,520
A whole bunch Melted gardener 
saw some nice swords, some 

2291
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:08,080
gardener swords and all that. 
Now remember how I was talking 

2292
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:11,200
about how I'm not sure the right
and left had time to fully 

2293
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:15,160
charge because of? 
Size of the center and the 

2294
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:17,520
vanguard and how long it would 
take them to get going and in 

2295
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:20,080
full strength, like using your 
stoplight analogy. 

2296
01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:24,400
And again, King Lauren got away.
So that maybe kind of does imply

2297
01:51:24,400 --> 01:51:27,040
that he saw the battle was lost 
and rode away. 

2298
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:29,560
He was the commander of the 
right or the left. 

2299
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:30,760
I forget. 
It doesn't matter. 

2300
01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:36,360
He got away perhaps because his 
his division never fully engaged

2301
01:51:37,080 --> 01:51:40,920
which would make sense because 
two divisions engaged with 

2302
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:42,680
11,000 men. 
That's. 

2303
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:46,440
Half of a 655 thousand men army.
That's 22,000 men already. 

2304
01:51:46,440 --> 01:51:48,680
You can see why a guns like 
okay. 

2305
01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:52,200
We got to do this now before our
11,000 are completely 

2306
01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:54,280
overwhelmed. 
And by that time King Lauren is 

2307
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:57,440
not yet charged. 
And yeah, I could explain it. 

2308
01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:00,160
They could also explain why 
there's no mention at all of 

2309
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:01,720
what happened to the 4th 
division. 

2310
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:04,680
They might have been they might 
have gotten away mostly intact, 

2311
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:07,840
which that could account for a 
lot of the 20,000 men who got 

2312
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:09,680
away. 
But, but that's about right if 

2313
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:12,940
you think about the math. 
Divide the 55,000 in fourths. 

2314
01:52:13,700 --> 01:52:20,140
That's about, what, 14? 
Almost 15, almost 16,000 per 

2315
01:52:20,180 --> 01:52:23,100
division. 
So that's That would be not 64. 

2316
01:52:23,100 --> 01:52:25,940
My bad. 
So thirteen 13,013, so close to 

2317
01:52:25,940 --> 01:52:29,180
like 13 1/2, almost exactly 13 
1/2 thousand per per 4th. 

2318
01:52:29,820 --> 01:52:33,940
So if 1 1/2 of those fourths got
away, that's roughly 20,000. 

2319
01:52:34,420 --> 01:52:37,140
So the half of like half. 
Roughly 2/3. 

2320
01:52:37,140 --> 01:52:38,460
Each of the left and the right 
got away. 

2321
01:52:38,660 --> 01:52:40,950
Something like that. 
Anyway, that's not an important 

2322
01:52:40,950 --> 01:52:42,510
thing to figure out. 
But you know, we like to get 

2323
01:52:42,510 --> 01:52:45,230
into weeds with those numbers 
and those casualties and army 

2324
01:52:45,230 --> 01:52:49,390
sizes. 
So the rest, yeah, that's just a

2325
01:52:49,390 --> 01:52:52,310
gruesome feast to you. 
Hear about the Dragons gorging 

2326
01:52:52,310 --> 01:52:54,670
themselves on the burn, Dad. 
You know, we know the Dragons 

2327
01:52:54,670 --> 01:52:56,550
like their meat well cooked, 
well burned. 

2328
01:52:56,550 --> 01:52:58,910
There'd be plenty of that. 
But that's just gruesome to 

2329
01:52:58,910 --> 01:53:01,910
think about and would intimidate
the survivors even more. 

2330
01:53:02,230 --> 01:53:04,830
Like just sitting there watching
the Dragons just eat the dead. 

2331
01:53:04,830 --> 01:53:06,710
Like. 
As if they weren't intimidated 

2332
01:53:06,710 --> 01:53:08,710
enough. 
It's like if they didn't see 

2333
01:53:08,710 --> 01:53:10,710
those creatures, it was 
unnatural enough to be like 

2334
01:53:10,710 --> 01:53:14,190
animals don't eat cooked meat. 
Like that's not normal. 

2335
01:53:14,390 --> 01:53:17,670
Even that is unnatural. 
Like we're the only animals that

2336
01:53:17,670 --> 01:53:20,550
eat cooked meat. 
I never really thought about 

2337
01:53:20,550 --> 01:53:22,150
that before. 
Dragons only. 

2338
01:53:22,150 --> 01:53:23,230
I think it's even mentioned in 
the books. 

2339
01:53:23,230 --> 01:53:24,950
Only humans and Dragons eat 
cooked meat. 

2340
01:53:26,600 --> 01:53:29,400
There's some exceptions. 
Animals that we've domesticated 

2341
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:31,320
dogs would eat. 
Oh, I mean, they don't prepare 

2342
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:31,840
it that way. 
I'm sorry. 

2343
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:34,080
They don't look to eat right. 
Yeah, you're of course right 

2344
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:35,880
that they will eat it. 
It's not part of their natural 

2345
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:37,040
diet. 
They'll happily, yeah. 

2346
01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:39,520
Like our cats will absolutely 
put cooked meat in front of 

2347
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:40,440
them. 
Yeah, they'll go for it. 

2348
01:53:40,480 --> 01:53:43,440
But the crows would show up 
eventually too, because the 

2349
01:53:43,440 --> 01:53:45,240
Dragons can't possibly eat all 
that themselves. 

2350
01:53:45,240 --> 01:53:46,840
Maybe the wolves and the wild 
dogs. 

2351
01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:50,040
And it gets kind of gross. 
As to the lions worms, yes, 

2352
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:51,880
yeah, the worms, Yes, 
absolutely. 

2353
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:55,160
The worms and the worms, the 
with the Y and the O would be 

2354
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:56,320
feasting. 
The big. 

2355
01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:58,920
Small. 
So as we said the line the 

2356
01:53:58,920 --> 01:54:01,640
Lannisters got away. 
So as the wolves and crows and 

2357
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:05,000
Dragons were feasting well let's
have a quote about what 

2358
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:06,760
happened. 
Lauren Lannister was captured 

2359
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:10,000
the next day, the King of the 
Rock latest sword and crown, 

2360
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:14,040
Agon's feet, Benthany, and did 
him homage and Agon, true to his

2361
01:54:14,040 --> 01:54:17,480
promises, lifted his beaten foe 
back to his feet and confirmed 

2362
01:54:17,480 --> 01:54:21,080
him in his lands and lordship, 
naming him Lord of Castor Rock 

2363
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:24,260
and Warden of the West. 
Lord Lawrence Bannerman followed

2364
01:54:24,260 --> 01:54:27,820
his example, and so too did many
Lords of the Reach, those who 

2365
01:54:27,820 --> 01:54:30,540
had survived the dragon. 
No description of how this 

2366
01:54:30,540 --> 01:54:31,900
happened, but it's pretty easy 
to imagine. 

2367
01:54:31,900 --> 01:54:33,900
I mean, the dragon would be 
faster, you'd be able to find 

2368
01:54:33,900 --> 01:54:36,780
them and they'd be in disarray. 
But it would be important. 

2369
01:54:36,780 --> 01:54:39,740
Like, as we said, you don't want
them to get back to Castle Rock.

2370
01:54:39,740 --> 01:54:41,500
You really do not want them to 
get inside. 

2371
01:54:42,370 --> 01:54:44,610
And whole up, you want to stop 
them before they arrive. 

2372
01:54:44,610 --> 01:54:47,650
So they probably would have been
a pretty big sense of urgency. 

2373
01:54:47,890 --> 01:54:49,290
Maybe not as much as I'm 
imagining. 

2374
01:54:49,370 --> 01:54:52,130
Maybe they don't realize how bad
Castly Rock was, but I think 

2375
01:54:52,130 --> 01:54:55,410
they did, because there's one of
those anecdotes about Agon 

2376
01:54:55,730 --> 01:55:00,330
having visited certain parts of 
Kings of the of Westeros before.

2377
01:55:00,330 --> 01:55:03,050
The Conquest includes him going 
to Lannis Port, which means he 

2378
01:55:03,050 --> 01:55:04,890
would see Castly Rock because 
it's right there. 

2379
01:55:05,990 --> 01:55:08,830
In fact, it's likely he went 
inside given he visited. 

2380
01:55:08,990 --> 01:55:10,750
If he visited the Lannisters, 
they would probably have him 

2381
01:55:10,750 --> 01:55:12,870
inside, but who knows. 
Still, he would have seen it. 

2382
01:55:12,910 --> 01:55:16,470
I can imagine it being an 
organized surrender that he 

2383
01:55:16,590 --> 01:55:20,190
quote UN quote, got away and 
then assess the situation like, 

2384
01:55:20,190 --> 01:55:22,470
all right, now what? 
Army's defeated. 

2385
01:55:22,470 --> 01:55:24,270
They've got these Dragons. 
They beat the reach. 

2386
01:55:24,590 --> 01:55:26,950
They beat everywhere else. 
They might, they might burn me 

2387
01:55:26,950 --> 01:55:29,510
alive as I try to run back to 
castly rock. 

2388
01:55:29,550 --> 01:55:32,390
And then then when I get back 
what I yeah, I think he might 

2389
01:55:32,390 --> 01:55:36,750
have decided I need to just 
surrender now and and he might 

2390
01:55:36,750 --> 01:55:39,910
have sent an envoy. 
And I think it might sound a 

2391
01:55:39,910 --> 01:55:44,870
little better to both sides too.
If he, if it if he was captured 

2392
01:55:45,550 --> 01:55:47,710
rather than he surrendered. 
It's not for him. 

2393
01:55:47,710 --> 01:55:49,150
That sounds better. 
They got me. 

2394
01:55:49,150 --> 01:55:51,430
I had no choice. 
And to the Targaryens it might 

2395
01:55:51,430 --> 01:55:53,350
sound better too. 
That like we got him, we 

2396
01:55:53,350 --> 01:55:57,570
captured rather than it might 
have been an arranged surrender,

2397
01:55:57,610 --> 01:55:59,370
I'm not sure. 
I can see that, yeah. 

2398
01:55:59,490 --> 01:56:00,690
How it might have? 
Played out, the optics are a 

2399
01:56:00,690 --> 01:56:02,810
little better there. 
Another factor is that it's a 

2400
01:56:02,810 --> 01:56:04,170
pretty good way back. 
Like they would have. 

2401
01:56:04,170 --> 01:56:05,730
It would have taken a little 
while to get back to Catholic 

2402
01:56:05,730 --> 01:56:06,690
Rock. 
It's not that close. 

2403
01:56:06,690 --> 01:56:08,290
They had marched A substantial 
way. 

2404
01:56:08,490 --> 01:56:10,050
I mean, they were in the West. 
I mean, they were not in the 

2405
01:56:10,050 --> 01:56:11,050
West. 
They had to, they were in the 

2406
01:56:11,050 --> 01:56:12,650
reach. 
They had to March all the way 

2407
01:56:12,650 --> 01:56:14,330
through the West. 
Catholic Rocks basically at the 

2408
01:56:14,330 --> 01:56:16,650
shore. 
So plenty of time to be caught, 

2409
01:56:16,650 --> 01:56:18,370
which which emphasizes what 
you're saying. 

2410
01:56:18,370 --> 01:56:21,050
Like, yeah, they might, we may 
not be able to get away. 

2411
01:56:21,670 --> 01:56:23,070
All the more reason to maybe 
surrender. 

2412
01:56:23,070 --> 01:56:26,270
Yeah, like you said, he may just
torture us if he's flying. 

2413
01:56:26,350 --> 01:56:28,870
If his dragon gets here but his 
army is 2 days behind, he might 

2414
01:56:28,870 --> 01:56:31,990
just decide to use his dragon 
and we don't need any more of 

2415
01:56:31,990 --> 01:56:33,350
that. 
We don't need any more of that. 

2416
01:56:33,430 --> 01:56:36,350
We're done with that. 
We're done with being strafed by

2417
01:56:36,350 --> 01:56:39,750
unnaturally hot black fire. 
Sweet bad. 

2418
01:56:39,910 --> 01:56:42,590
Once was enough. 
Nina points out, as she is want 

2419
01:56:42,590 --> 01:56:45,550
to do, an example from the 
Accursed Kings, which is also an

2420
01:56:45,550 --> 01:56:47,310
example from history. 
In this case, Cuz Historical 

2421
01:56:48,230 --> 01:56:52,080
Kings is historical fiction. 
The retreating defeated Philip 

2422
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:56,080
the 6th of France following the 
Battle of Cressy, wandering the 

2423
01:56:56,080 --> 01:56:58,560
countryside with a handful of 
men knocking at the door of a 

2424
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:01,760
Manor house with the words open 
to the unhappy king of France, 

2425
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:07,320
which is, I believe, a 
historical anecdote as well as 

2426
01:57:07,320 --> 01:57:10,240
something that I think Maurice 
drew on put into the books. 

2427
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:12,320
I could be wrong about that. 
Nina will surely correct me 

2428
01:57:12,320 --> 01:57:15,000
later if I'm wrong. 
So Nina, let me know if I'm 

2429
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:16,720
wrong about that one. 
I like what you said about the 

2430
01:57:16,720 --> 01:57:17,720
surrender. 
Potentially. 

2431
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:20,880
Nina offers another potential 
that maybe not it doesn't 

2432
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:24,520
necessarily look better to say 
you surrendered but or to say 

2433
01:57:24,520 --> 01:57:26,080
you were caught. 
But because it might look 

2434
01:57:26,080 --> 01:57:28,960
cowardly, but it's hard to say, 
it's it's it's difficult to put 

2435
01:57:28,960 --> 01:57:31,560
us on our place and we already 
look bad because you lost. 

2436
01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:33,720
So what makes you look a little 
bit less bad? 

2437
01:57:34,280 --> 01:57:36,200
You know? 
Does it look bad to say you 

2438
01:57:36,200 --> 01:57:39,280
surrendered after you got away, 
or does it look better to? 

2439
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:42,200
To say you were captured. 
Yeah, I'm not actually sure. 

2440
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:45,480
Nina isn't sure either. 
So yeah, it's a fair point to 

2441
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:49,040
put in dispute even now. 
They would have beaten cast of 

2442
01:57:49,040 --> 01:57:51,600
The Rock eventually, I'm sure of
it. 

2443
01:57:51,600 --> 01:57:55,000
But it would have been a nasty 
business, long and ugly and slow

2444
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,160
and yeah, and like you say, 
Sean. 

2445
01:57:58,930 --> 01:58:00,610
They got better. 
They might have been worth it, 

2446
01:58:00,970 --> 01:58:02,130
right? 
They might have been able to 

2447
01:58:02,130 --> 01:58:05,650
capture Castley Rock at the 
expense of losing the crown ones

2448
01:58:05,650 --> 01:58:08,930
of the North, or never even 
starting on dorm like they might

2449
01:58:08,930 --> 01:58:11,970
have spent the time and it 
having all those Dragons They 

2450
01:58:11,970 --> 01:58:13,850
could probably like contain 
Castley Rock. 

2451
01:58:14,290 --> 01:58:18,410
They could just like burn flames
in the entrances and keep food 

2452
01:58:18,410 --> 01:58:20,770
from going in and out. 
But while they're doing that, 

2453
01:58:21,810 --> 01:58:24,810
who's monitoring the Iron 
Islands, ships going over to the

2454
01:58:24,810 --> 01:58:27,290
Crown lands, or pirates 
attacking Dragonstone or 

2455
01:58:27,290 --> 01:58:28,930
whatever else? 
They need the they need the 

2456
01:58:28,930 --> 01:58:31,970
Dragons for other things. 
And never mind their armies that

2457
01:58:31,970 --> 01:58:35,850
they would then have to feed as 
they see Castly Rock and I I 

2458
01:58:35,850 --> 01:58:39,170
think that they could have done 
it, but they might have said 

2459
01:58:39,530 --> 01:58:41,890
never mind. 
We'll come back to this kind of 

2460
01:58:41,890 --> 01:58:42,970
like dorm. 
We got it. 

2461
01:58:42,970 --> 01:58:46,060
We need the Dragons for all 
these other missions, and it 

2462
01:58:46,060 --> 01:58:48,380
might have dragged out and they 
might have they, you know, even 

2463
01:58:48,380 --> 01:58:50,860
if they theoretically could have
it at the in, the reality is 

2464
01:58:50,860 --> 01:58:53,380
they might not have been able 
to, at least not for a long 

2465
01:58:53,380 --> 01:58:54,420
time. 
Kind of like Dorn. 

2466
01:58:54,740 --> 01:58:58,060
Another good angle Nina points 
out here is that they gonna 

2467
01:58:58,060 --> 01:59:03,980
proved himself willing to give 
territory to to to take the top 

2468
01:59:03,980 --> 01:59:05,860
spot away from someone and give 
it to someone else. 

2469
01:59:05,860 --> 01:59:07,700
He gave the Tullys the 
Riverlands. 

2470
01:59:08,100 --> 01:59:10,660
He gave Oris Baratheon the storm
lands. 

2471
01:59:11,360 --> 01:59:14,520
At this point, the Tyrells 
hadn't been given High Garden 

2472
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:15,800
yet. 
That was about to happen. 

2473
01:59:16,040 --> 01:59:18,560
So Lauren may have realized that
he may have like, oh, another 

2474
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:21,160
reason I should surrender is 
that if I don't, he might give 

2475
01:59:21,160 --> 01:59:22,680
the cat give Cassie Rock to 
someone else. 

2476
01:59:23,160 --> 01:59:27,000
He might give it to the reins or
the the Mar Brands or he could 

2477
01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:28,680
have flown to drag it back to 
Cassly Rock. 

2478
01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:31,880
Yeah, which would have almost no
forces now because they all just

2479
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:35,040
left right and said all right, 
we just defeated your king and 

2480
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:38,080
your armies and here we are with
three Dragons and just like the 

2481
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:40,600
Tyrells, whoever's there might 
have just meant the knee and 

2482
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:41,870
said all right. 
It's yours. 

2483
01:59:41,910 --> 01:59:43,630
Yeah. 
And he would have raised them up

2484
01:59:43,630 --> 01:59:45,870
to say, yeah, totally. 
Yeah, you're absolutely right. 

2485
01:59:45,870 --> 01:59:48,750
So to to make sure he got to 
keep Castilly rock, he might 

2486
01:59:48,750 --> 01:59:52,230
have been like I better 
surrender because Aegon will he 

2487
01:59:52,230 --> 01:59:55,190
does tend to. 
Lift up those for me for 

2488
01:59:55,190 --> 01:59:57,390
surrendering like he has done 
with everyone else, and he will 

2489
01:59:57,390 --> 01:59:59,630
punish me for not surrendering 
like he does it with everyone. 

2490
01:59:59,670 --> 02:00:02,630
Else yeah, let me have set in as
he's running away from the 

2491
02:00:02,630 --> 02:00:05,590
battlefield in panic. 
Once he gets away and starts 

2492
02:00:05,590 --> 02:00:09,430
thinking about it he's like yeah
better bend the knee and like he

2493
02:00:09,430 --> 02:00:11,790
hates to admit it but he's the 
more the more he turns it over 

2494
02:00:11,790 --> 02:00:12,990
in his head. 
You may have advisors telling 

2495
02:00:12,990 --> 02:00:15,230
him the same thing or his 
advisors might be telling him to

2496
02:00:15,270 --> 02:00:18,070
just fight on or something or 
it's not don't give up hope or 

2497
02:00:18,270 --> 02:00:21,910
but he's like, Nah, dog we got, 
we got to give up. 

2498
02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:25,880
It's the best move at this point
And and he was right. 

2499
02:00:25,960 --> 02:00:30,800
He he he now bent the knee the 
the West bent the knee. 

2500
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:34,520
With him there is still his 
Liege Lord so they and there and

2501
02:00:34,520 --> 02:00:36,080
they don't have Castle Rock to 
retreat to. 

2502
02:00:36,080 --> 02:00:39,200
It's not like they don't have 
castles inside mountains. 

2503
02:00:39,920 --> 02:00:42,120
They don't have infinite wealth 
inside that mountain. 

2504
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:44,680
They can't hold out and it's 
dishonorable. 

2505
02:00:44,680 --> 02:00:46,760
They're they're king bent the 
knee they're supposed to as 

2506
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:48,040
well. 
It's it's kind of how you're 

2507
02:00:48,040 --> 02:00:50,920
supposed to. 
You followed your Lord when he 

2508
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:52,920
called you to battle, and when 
he bends the knee, you do too. 

2509
02:00:53,350 --> 02:00:56,550
So yeah, there are a couple that
could have hit. 

2510
02:00:56,550 --> 02:00:58,990
Now there are some of them that 
have castles and mountains like 

2511
02:00:58,990 --> 02:01:01,910
the rains, but Tywin was able to
destroy. 

2512
02:01:01,910 --> 02:01:03,270
What are you doing? 
What are you hiding out for? 

2513
02:01:03,270 --> 02:01:04,430
What do you think's going to 
happen? 

2514
02:01:04,430 --> 02:01:08,230
Like finally, after years of 
being siege, you'll come out and

2515
02:01:08,550 --> 02:01:11,310
be in charge. 
Yeah, things will have gone back

2516
02:01:11,310 --> 02:01:13,030
to before. 
Like the Dragons will have died 

2517
02:01:13,030 --> 02:01:14,510
out. 
Yeah, good thing we waited out. 

2518
02:01:14,510 --> 02:01:20,670
That Targaryen generation. 
That one, that one decade, You 

2519
02:01:20,670 --> 02:01:22,670
fools that went along with it. 
Yeah, you should have hidden 

2520
02:01:23,150 --> 02:01:26,630
wonder. 
Yeah, this was this was 

2521
02:01:26,630 --> 02:01:30,030
extremely different from what 
happened to the Allies. 

2522
02:01:31,430 --> 02:01:33,270
Every single male gardener wiped
out. 

2523
02:01:33,270 --> 02:01:35,470
We don't hear of any Lannister 
deaths. 

2524
02:01:35,470 --> 02:01:39,950
Not not one. 
Because according to Tyrion Lord

2525
02:01:39,950 --> 02:01:42,390
Lauren or King Lauren Lord 
Lauren, shortly after it hadn't 

2526
02:01:42,390 --> 02:01:46,790
had a son yet. 
There were no sons born to him. 

2527
02:01:47,190 --> 02:01:53,490
They lost soldiers, but not any 
actual Lannisters, which is 

2528
02:01:53,490 --> 02:01:55,770
interesting. 
Which more, even more implies 

2529
02:01:55,770 --> 02:01:58,530
that the Lannisters never really
got into the thick of the 

2530
02:01:58,530 --> 02:02:00,610
fighting because of where they 
were on the battlefield, and 

2531
02:02:00,610 --> 02:02:05,050
they were treated before they 
were caught in the full trap of 

2532
02:02:05,050 --> 02:02:08,010
fire. 
Because there's so many 

2533
02:02:08,010 --> 02:02:10,330
Lannisters, there's always a lot
of Lannisters, right? 

2534
02:02:10,690 --> 02:02:11,690
There's always, I mean, maybe 
this. 

2535
02:02:11,930 --> 02:02:13,850
The ones that were killed just 
weren't weren't relevant, so 

2536
02:02:13,850 --> 02:02:16,490
they didn't get mentioned. 
Like a couple cousins aren't 

2537
02:02:16,490 --> 02:02:20,460
worth historical mention. 
You know, like someone that's 25

2538
02:02:20,460 --> 02:02:25,700
spots away from the succession 
doesn't bear mention unless he's

2539
02:02:25,700 --> 02:02:28,460
the only one left or unless all 
of them were wiped out. 

2540
02:02:28,460 --> 02:02:30,820
So yeah, so there was no 
disruption at all in their 

2541
02:02:30,820 --> 02:02:33,860
dynastic line that we hear of, 
which is obviously very 

2542
02:02:33,860 --> 02:02:36,220
different than the elsewhere. 
It's kind of similar to what 

2543
02:02:36,220 --> 02:02:38,220
happened in the Veil. 
The Veil also saw saw no 

2544
02:02:38,220 --> 02:02:40,500
disruption at all. 
They're like before it got to 

2545
02:02:40,500 --> 02:02:43,180
their army's dying, only their 
ships that died. 

2546
02:02:43,180 --> 02:02:44,340
They're like, Yep, we've done 
the knee. 

2547
02:02:44,500 --> 02:02:46,300
Our young king becomes a young 
Lord. 

2548
02:02:47,110 --> 02:02:49,470
Everyone else stays exactly 
where they were in the line of 

2549
02:02:49,470 --> 02:02:51,710
succession. 
The same people are in charge. 

2550
02:02:51,830 --> 02:02:55,230
Their title just isn't quite as 
fancy. 

2551
02:02:55,990 --> 02:02:58,070
And you get a new title. 
Though both the Vale and the 

2552
02:02:58,070 --> 02:03:01,350
West got new titles. 
They got this Warden of the East

2553
02:03:01,670 --> 02:03:03,670
and West. 
Those were new dynamics. 

2554
02:03:03,670 --> 02:03:08,460
So you go from king to warden, 
you still get to be a High Lord,

2555
02:03:08,460 --> 02:03:10,660
so that you know there's still 
these new titles that get 

2556
02:03:10,660 --> 02:03:12,100
created. 
They still have some fanciness 

2557
02:03:12,100 --> 02:03:14,740
to them. 
This would not be the case in 

2558
02:03:14,860 --> 02:03:17,620
the Reach, however. 
So we went long on this. 

2559
02:03:17,620 --> 02:03:19,180
So I think we'll, we'll call it 
here. 

2560
02:03:19,180 --> 02:03:23,700
We'll we'll get back to High 
Garden and the examples of the 

2561
02:03:23,700 --> 02:03:26,340
Field of Fire. 
The lessons will come to that 

2562
02:03:26,340 --> 02:03:29,780
next time because a lot of these
things are related to what we'll

2563
02:03:29,780 --> 02:03:33,220
talk about next time, which is 
the other kingdoms that handle 

2564
02:03:33,220 --> 02:03:36,950
this a bit differently. 
There isn't a single more large 

2565
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:40,110
battle left in the Conquest. 
There's lots of small ones, 

2566
02:03:40,110 --> 02:03:42,590
there's lots of burnings, 
there's lots of castles and 

2567
02:03:42,590 --> 02:03:45,950
guerrilla warfare. 
But things are moving into a 

2568
02:03:45,950 --> 02:03:50,950
different phase now, so we had a
good point of flexibility here. 

2569
02:03:50,950 --> 02:03:53,230
We could have either if we if we
had gotten through this other 

2570
02:03:53,230 --> 02:03:55,630
stuff a little faster, we could 
have pushed our way through all 

2571
02:03:55,630 --> 02:03:58,630
of this. 
But we've got more than 5 pages 

2572
02:03:58,630 --> 02:04:01,870
left here, like 6 pages left of 
of our notes here. 

2573
02:04:02,350 --> 02:04:07,310
And if it took us two hours and 
10 minutes to get through 14 

2574
02:04:07,310 --> 02:04:09,830
pages, this probably another 
hour of this. 

2575
02:04:09,830 --> 02:04:11,350
So we won't. 
We're not going to push a three 

2576
02:04:11,350 --> 02:04:13,070
hour episode and we're not going
to do part of this. 

2577
02:04:13,070 --> 02:04:15,230
We'll save it off to bite off 
all at once. 

2578
02:04:15,310 --> 02:04:18,590
So let's do a few other things 
before we end the episode. 

2579
02:04:19,150 --> 02:04:21,270
One thing to look forward to 
here is all these great quotes. 

2580
02:04:21,270 --> 02:04:23,390
We'll start next time with well,
we'll go through the Field of 

2581
02:04:23,390 --> 02:04:27,070
Fire as examples in Westeros and
current times. 

2582
02:04:27,070 --> 02:04:32,670
That includes quotes by more 
quotes by Tyrion, a quote by 

2583
02:04:32,870 --> 02:04:38,950
Atlanta Tyrell, and a quote from
Daenerys and Barriston. 

2584
02:04:39,230 --> 02:04:43,790
Lots of good stuff. 
And of course, the Sworn sword 

2585
02:04:43,790 --> 02:04:45,430
that comes up in the Sworn Sword
a few times. 

2586
02:04:45,430 --> 02:04:47,950
We also get a look at what it 
might look like, a microcosm 

2587
02:04:48,190 --> 02:04:50,350
because of the burning that 
happened during the Sworn Sword.

2588
02:04:50,550 --> 02:04:55,550
So before any of these shakeups 
could begin in earnest, before 

2589
02:04:55,550 --> 02:05:00,020
High Garden was settled, before 
Hightower bent the knee, before 

2590
02:05:00,020 --> 02:05:02,820
the Iron Islands and all that, 
the North Dorn. 

2591
02:05:02,820 --> 02:05:04,900
A lot of places still unsubdued.
Even though we weren't aren't 

2592
02:05:04,900 --> 02:05:06,740
gonna see another large battle. 
There's still a lot of work to 

2593
02:05:06,740 --> 02:05:09,780
be done, a lot of coverage for 
us to get through, a lot of fun 

2594
02:05:09,780 --> 02:05:12,780
stuff to talk about. 
Lesser problems, like the three 

2595
02:05:12,780 --> 02:05:15,140
sisters who were still aiming 
for independence, who at this 

2596
02:05:15,140 --> 02:05:17,900
point we're still holding on to 
that. 

2597
02:05:17,900 --> 02:05:20,740
No one had confronted them 
directly yet, but that will 

2598
02:05:20,740 --> 02:05:22,300
come. 
We actually won't have an 

2599
02:05:22,300 --> 02:05:26,050
episode next week. 
We'll probably put up a rerun, 

2600
02:05:26,050 --> 02:05:29,570
but we'll be back where we left 
off on the 22nd of October. 

2601
02:05:29,810 --> 02:05:32,690
And let's discuss the trivia 
question. 

2602
02:05:32,890 --> 02:05:34,330
I'll say why we're off. 
OK. 

2603
02:05:34,330 --> 02:05:37,290
Yeah, go ahead. 
Every year I forget to plan for 

2604
02:05:37,290 --> 02:05:41,850
Atlanta prides that we celebrate
Pride in October, not June like 

2605
02:05:41,850 --> 02:05:43,810
the rest of the country for the 
most part. 

2606
02:05:44,410 --> 02:05:47,330
So we have the Pride Festival 
here and every year. 

2607
02:05:47,760 --> 02:05:49,960
We stream on Sunday, so I can't 
go on Sunday. 

2608
02:05:49,960 --> 02:05:53,520
I only go on Saturday. 
But I thought ahead and I asked 

2609
02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:56,760
for it off this year so that I 
could actually experience all of

2610
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:59,920
the Pride Festival, just a free 
festival here so that Atlanta 

2611
02:05:59,920 --> 02:06:01,800
Pride goes hard. 
I mean Atlanta. 

2612
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:03,920
A hub, So. 
Yeah, yeah, there's all sorts of

2613
02:06:03,960 --> 02:06:07,080
musicians and a parade. 
And anyways, I'm quite excited 

2614
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:10,720
to experience both days of it 
this year, right? 

2615
02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:12,560
I think I read somewhere. 
I don't know quite how they 

2616
02:06:12,560 --> 02:06:15,080
measure this, but it's the third
biggest Pride celebration. 

2617
02:06:15,080 --> 02:06:16,920
I think New York and San 
Francisco or. 

2618
02:06:17,620 --> 02:06:19,420
One and two in Atlanta. 
That checks out. 

2619
02:06:19,420 --> 02:06:21,420
That makes sense to me 
personally. 

2620
02:06:21,420 --> 02:06:23,060
It does. 
And yeah, it's great that we 

2621
02:06:23,060 --> 02:06:27,540
have it in October cuz June in 
Atlanta miserable outside 

2622
02:06:27,540 --> 02:06:29,180
October. 
The weather is beautiful. 

2623
02:06:29,180 --> 02:06:32,340
So yeah, you were wondering why 
we were off. 

2624
02:06:32,380 --> 02:06:36,700
I thought I'd let you know. 
It was for me, yeah, for a. 

2625
02:06:37,340 --> 02:06:41,780
Only cuz you're the best. 
You can't not give the best a 

2626
02:06:41,940 --> 02:06:43,580
weekend off when they ask for 
it. 

2627
02:06:43,580 --> 02:06:46,580
I mean, he'll that's this 
unthinkable. 

2628
02:06:46,660 --> 02:06:49,860
It's unthinkable. 
So, trivia question the 

2629
02:06:49,940 --> 02:06:52,100
question. 
This is very funny because we 

2630
02:06:52,100 --> 02:06:55,380
really reemphasize the answer 
when shots at the haze. 

2631
02:06:55,380 --> 02:06:58,060
Accidentally featured Oak heart,
Oak heart. 

2632
02:06:59,140 --> 02:07:03,100
Was my guess how people, he said
he wanted to have the trivia 

2633
02:07:03,100 --> 02:07:06,180
question have the answer in the 
episode sometimes or going 

2634
02:07:06,180 --> 02:07:08,820
forward or whatever. 
And people seem to like that. 

2635
02:07:08,860 --> 02:07:09,260
Cool. 
All right. 

2636
02:07:09,260 --> 02:07:11,100
Well, I'll keep that going then.
I like that's a good. 

2637
02:07:11,100 --> 02:07:12,220
I think it's a good way to do 
it. 

2638
02:07:12,220 --> 02:07:14,980
Have the answer be in there, 
because you know it just feels. 

2639
02:07:15,100 --> 02:07:17,300
There'll be some people who just
know it, like when we first 

2640
02:07:17,300 --> 02:07:19,460
asked because they'll just read 
it, which kind of fits in with. 

2641
02:07:19,860 --> 02:07:23,060
I shared this tidbit because we 
did our trivia game. 

2642
02:07:23,060 --> 02:07:27,580
You know, we we hosted trivia 
for patrons and if you wanted to

2643
02:07:27,580 --> 02:07:30,740
see how that went, you could 
watch on the Facebook page we we

2644
02:07:30,740 --> 02:07:33,300
streamed it. 
But anyways, when preparing the 

2645
02:07:33,300 --> 02:07:36,220
trivia questions, I had to ask 
Aziz, he doesn't write the 

2646
02:07:36,220 --> 02:07:39,460
answers to the questions in the 
documents, so the questions are 

2647
02:07:39,460 --> 02:07:40,740
not that. 
The answers are not there. 

2648
02:07:40,740 --> 02:07:43,300
So I had to ask Aziz, well, 
what's the answer to this? 

2649
02:07:43,780 --> 02:07:45,580
And there were multiple 
questions. 

2650
02:07:45,580 --> 02:07:47,380
He did not know. 
He did not. 

2651
02:07:47,380 --> 02:07:49,540
He stumped him a good fourth or 
fifth of them. 

2652
02:07:49,700 --> 02:07:51,580
Yeah, a good fourth or fifth of 
the questions. 

2653
02:07:51,580 --> 02:07:54,900
You didn't know, so he read me 
like 20 or 25 and like if it was

2654
02:07:54,900 --> 02:07:56,900
20, I got 15. 
Yeah, yeah. 

2655
02:07:57,420 --> 02:08:02,580
Every time Aziz didn't know one.
I was like yes, so now I put the

2656
02:08:02,580 --> 02:08:05,180
answer in the documents. 
So because there's been times 

2657
02:08:05,180 --> 02:08:07,340
where people where Shay is like 
looking to see who got the 

2658
02:08:07,340 --> 02:08:09,560
answer right and she didn't know
because she didn't know the 

2659
02:08:09,560 --> 02:08:11,720
answer because I didn't put it 
in there. 

2660
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:13,880
Got the answer right on that one
at all. 

2661
02:08:13,880 --> 02:08:16,400
Sorry, yeah, whoops. 
OK, that's my bad but. 

2662
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:20,040
Incidentally, if we're ready to 
announce this, we're going to do

2663
02:08:20,040 --> 02:08:23,600
trivia again on the. 28th, 
right, Yes, we should say now, 

2664
02:08:23,600 --> 02:08:26,280
yeah, we're going to do well. 
I'll, I'll make a post and I'll 

2665
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:27,920
attack Bull and Discord and 
whatnot. 

2666
02:08:27,920 --> 02:08:29,920
But if you're listening now, you
can plan. 

2667
02:08:29,920 --> 02:08:33,720
Now we're going to do it 
Saturday, October 28th at 3:00 

2668
02:08:33,720 --> 02:08:36,680
PM. 
This way hopefully some of you 

2669
02:08:36,680 --> 02:08:39,470
who are. 
In Europe can make it work. 

2670
02:08:39,470 --> 02:08:42,110
We're just trying a variety of 
days and times and we'll look 

2671
02:08:42,110 --> 02:08:45,950
back at our logs over time and 
figure out what was most 

2672
02:08:45,950 --> 02:08:48,910
popular. 
And if you want us to keep doing

2673
02:08:48,910 --> 02:08:51,830
things like this, you should 
show up because that, you know, 

2674
02:08:51,830 --> 02:08:54,310
it's not for sure that we'll 
keep going it for longer than 

2675
02:08:54,310 --> 02:08:58,430
six months or, you know, yeah, 
participation will absolutely 

2676
02:08:58,430 --> 02:09:01,710
keep it going no matter what. 
All right. 

2677
02:09:01,710 --> 02:09:04,670
So couple other odds and ends 
here. 

2678
02:09:05,980 --> 02:09:09,540
If you are wanting to stay 
immersed, check out our episode 

2679
02:09:09,540 --> 02:09:12,060
on the Age of Heroes or episode 
on High Garden. 

2680
02:09:12,460 --> 02:09:17,260
Or perhaps our episode The Last 
Storm, which is for patrons and 

2681
02:09:17,260 --> 02:09:19,140
members only. 
There's three main main ways to 

2682
02:09:19,140 --> 02:09:22,180
get access to all of our bonus 
episodes this The Last Storm is 

2683
02:09:22,220 --> 02:09:25,260
simply the most recent of our 
subscribers only episodes. 

2684
02:09:25,540 --> 02:09:29,180
The three ways to get it are 
become a patron, become a 

2685
02:09:29,180 --> 02:09:32,620
Spotify subscriber, which there 
should be a link if you listen 

2686
02:09:32,620 --> 02:09:33,900
on Spotify. 
There should be a link in the 

2687
02:09:33,900 --> 02:09:37,800
description of the episode or 
you can send us a one time 

2688
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:41,520
donation through PayPal. 
There's a link on our website 

2689
02:09:41,680 --> 02:09:43,720
and if you send us a donation 
through that, I will send you a 

2690
02:09:43,720 --> 02:09:46,200
link to all of our bonus 
episodes. 

2691
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:48,000
So. 
There is a fourth way. 

2692
02:09:48,200 --> 02:09:49,960
Is there? 
You can have, you can have sex 

2693
02:09:49,960 --> 02:09:52,840
and milisand okay, there is a 
fourth way. 

2694
02:09:53,360 --> 02:09:56,080
I don't know how you would prove
you did that. 

2695
02:09:57,400 --> 02:09:58,920
Oh, you'll know, Okay. 
All right. 

2696
02:09:59,080 --> 02:10:03,820
Well, okay, we'll, we'll take 
each one of those in a case by 

2697
02:10:03,820 --> 02:10:07,860
case basis. 
Yes. 

2698
02:10:07,860 --> 02:10:09,540
And we'll keep that in the 
shadows. 

2699
02:10:09,540 --> 02:10:12,220
Keep that in the shadow, baby. 
Yeah. 

2700
02:10:12,220 --> 02:10:14,100
So that's how you get the last 
Storm episode. 

2701
02:10:14,100 --> 02:10:16,020
That's how you get all our other
Patrons episodes. 

2702
02:10:16,020 --> 02:10:18,140
It's a long list now. 
I couldn't possibly read them 

2703
02:10:18,140 --> 02:10:19,660
all off. 
So you get a lot of bang for 

2704
02:10:19,660 --> 02:10:21,620
your buck these days with a 
membership to History of 

2705
02:10:21,620 --> 02:10:25,140
Westeros, but you needn't do so 
if you don't want to. 

2706
02:10:25,140 --> 02:10:29,740
We have a large back catalog as 
well, so plenty of ways to enjoy

2707
02:10:29,740 --> 02:10:32,100
our show. 
We're saying that plenty of 

2708
02:10:32,100 --> 02:10:35,380
people sign up and they're like,
I'm going to sign up for six 

2709
02:10:35,380 --> 02:10:38,900
months or I'm going to sign up 
and read $5 until they've given 

2710
02:10:38,900 --> 02:10:40,780
$60.00. 
You know, they it doesn't have 

2711
02:10:40,780 --> 02:10:42,940
to be forever. 
That is a way a lot of people do

2712
02:10:42,940 --> 02:10:43,860
it. 
Yeah, I do that. 

2713
02:10:43,980 --> 02:10:48,100
I can't support all the shows I 
want to support, so I will 

2714
02:10:49,050 --> 02:10:52,210
support some of them for six 
months to a year and then move 

2715
02:10:52,210 --> 02:10:54,530
on to the next one and then 
maybe circle back when I can. 

2716
02:10:54,530 --> 02:10:56,290
But yeah, like, I can only do a 
certain amount. 

2717
02:10:56,290 --> 02:11:00,450
I can't afford to be a patron of
every single thing I enjoy a lot

2718
02:11:00,450 --> 02:11:01,450
of. 
Y'all can't probably either. 

2719
02:11:01,450 --> 02:11:03,090
But I think that, yeah, it's a 
pretty good way to do it, is to 

2720
02:11:03,450 --> 02:11:07,050
move it around from time to time
and that way you, you hit 

2721
02:11:07,050 --> 02:11:09,250
everyone that you're supporting 
with at least a little bit of 

2722
02:11:09,250 --> 02:11:11,490
love, a little bit of. 
Backing that's the best way to 

2723
02:11:11,490 --> 02:11:13,370
support other people, but for 
us. 

2724
02:11:14,530 --> 02:11:17,570
It needs to be forever or else. 
I think it's such an option 

2725
02:11:17,610 --> 02:11:21,330
Field of fire will come. 
I think it's a great option to 

2726
02:11:21,330 --> 02:11:24,530
exist in the world that we're 
not depending on Cocacola to 

2727
02:11:24,530 --> 02:11:26,730
give us a spot Thursday night to
8 or whatever it is. 

2728
02:11:26,730 --> 02:11:28,210
People who like us can support 
us. 

2729
02:11:28,210 --> 02:11:29,730
You don't need to do it through 
an advertiser. 

2730
02:11:29,730 --> 02:11:31,450
So you're right. 
I mean, we take whatever spot. 

2731
02:11:31,690 --> 02:11:33,970
It will take advertising. 
It allows us to turn down 

2732
02:11:33,970 --> 02:11:35,530
sponsors. 
Like we would be in a weird spot

2733
02:11:35,530 --> 02:11:37,330
where we like we can't turn 
sponsors down. 

2734
02:11:37,330 --> 02:11:39,410
We can occasionally. 
Like, it's hard to because we're

2735
02:11:39,410 --> 02:11:41,130
not like we're not rolling in 
the dough here. 

2736
02:11:41,530 --> 02:11:44,740
But yeah, it does give us a 
little more flexibility to 

2737
02:11:44,740 --> 02:11:45,980
create. 
We're not beholden to just 

2738
02:11:45,980 --> 02:11:49,780
whoever has money, which is kind
of how a lot of art and 

2739
02:11:49,780 --> 02:11:52,220
creativity has worked throughout
most of human existence. 

2740
02:11:52,220 --> 02:11:55,700
Just like, well, if either I 
take this money or it's not 

2741
02:11:55,700 --> 02:11:58,860
getting done and a lot of 
conundrums that come between 

2742
02:11:58,860 --> 02:12:01,900
that. 
Yes, yes, that's how it works. 

2743
02:12:02,300 --> 02:12:02,660
Cool. 
Yeah. 

2744
02:12:02,660 --> 02:12:04,940
So we definitely appreciate 
those of you who have taken that

2745
02:12:04,940 --> 02:12:07,430
step, but there's lots of other 
ways to support us. 

2746
02:12:07,430 --> 02:12:09,310
Telling your friends is is one 
of the best ways. 

2747
02:12:09,310 --> 02:12:12,630
There is one of the best, 
probably the best non financial 

2748
02:12:12,630 --> 02:12:15,710
way to support. 
But we appreciate whatever way 

2749
02:12:15,710 --> 02:12:17,790
your support comes. 
We're very lucky to be able to 

2750
02:12:17,790 --> 02:12:20,670
do this and we will not cease 
being thankful. 

2751
02:12:20,670 --> 02:12:23,670
So thank you as well to the 
people who support us outside of

2752
02:12:23,670 --> 02:12:26,590
our listeners. 
Nina as well, who's also a 

2753
02:12:26,590 --> 02:12:29,830
listener, but her support as a 
Co writer is invaluable. 

2754
02:12:30,390 --> 02:12:32,670
To check out good 
queenalley.tumblr.com. 

2755
02:12:33,100 --> 02:12:38,620
Joey, Jesse and Bran giving us 
great help with the intro outro 

2756
02:12:38,620 --> 02:12:40,900
our music. 
Same goes for Michael Clarfeld. 

2757
02:12:40,900 --> 02:12:44,620
His excellent help with the maps
go to claredox.com or claredox 

2758
02:12:44,620 --> 02:12:48,660
dot DE excuse me, that's 
KLARADOX dot DE. 

2759
02:12:48,660 --> 02:12:52,660
You can buy the files and then 
go print the maps yourself. 

2760
02:12:52,660 --> 02:12:55,340
And that includes a lot of maps 
that you may not have even seen 

2761
02:12:55,340 --> 02:12:56,700
through us because he's done a 
few. 

2762
02:12:57,460 --> 02:13:03,220
Also, thanks to our engineer and
thanks to my excellent Co hosts 

2763
02:13:03,300 --> 02:13:05,580
and our Facebook mods. 
Haven't shouted y'all out in a 

2764
02:13:05,580 --> 02:13:07,500
bit, but you deserve that 
mention. 

2765
02:13:07,900 --> 02:13:11,220
It's a lot of work modding 
groups or forums and things like

2766
02:13:11,220 --> 02:13:13,380
that. 
A lot of a lot of work goes in 

2767
02:13:13,380 --> 02:13:16,060
that y'all might not be aware of
unless you've done it before, in

2768
02:13:16,060 --> 02:13:21,540
which case you're very aware of 
it and probably feel the same 

2769
02:13:21,540 --> 02:13:23,260
way as how I'm describing it 
right now. 

2770
02:13:24,220 --> 02:13:26,220
So until next time, everybody. 
This is a great episode. 

2771
02:13:26,220 --> 02:13:30,240
Had a lot of fun discussing this
huge episode of A Song of Ice 

2772
02:13:30,240 --> 02:13:32,400
and Fire history. 
As we pointed out at the 

2773
02:13:32,400 --> 02:13:34,960
beginning, it appears right at 
the start and tearing in the 

2774
02:13:34,960 --> 02:13:38,280
second chapter, and we'll have 
more to say about it next time 

2775
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:41,560
you know what to do. 
In the meantime, Valar reread 

2776
02:13:41,560 --> 02:13:41,920
us.