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00:00:48,010 --> 00:00:54,090
When the Blacks and Greens went 
to war in the year 1/29 1:30, it

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00:00:54,090 --> 00:00:57,370
had been over 80 years since a 
dragon had fought another 

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00:00:57,370 --> 00:00:59,410
dragon. 
And of course I'm referring to 

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the literal Dragons, not 
Targaryens. 

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00:01:01,970 --> 00:01:05,170
The hard won lessons learned 
during the days of the Freehold 

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00:01:05,730 --> 00:01:08,800
and Aegon's Conquest. 
And the subsequent wars 

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involving Mega or the Cruel had 
apparently been forgotten during

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00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,600
the long peace that followed 
those events. 

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00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,440
In this episode, we highlight 
that lost wisdom ourselves. 

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00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,600
Hey, just because they forgot it
doesn't mean we need to. 

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00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,200
We'll showcase the destructive 
power of Dragons throughout 

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00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,920
known history. 
And a little bit. 

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00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,480
In the not so known history 
areas, which is a power the 

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00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,040
Targaryens took for granted to 
the peril of all Westeros during

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00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,200
the Dance as the Dragons. 
Arguably a few other times too, 

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00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,160
but the Dance was the last big 
mistake they were able to make 

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00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,560
in that regard. 
Because obviously afterwards, 

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00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,520
well, they couldn't really lose 
Dragons they no longer had. 

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00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,920
So we'll make. 
Sense of how the Valyrian dragon

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00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,120
riders. 
Kept from making that same 

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00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,960
mistake how they. 
Avoided destroying each other, 

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as well as how their methods of 
conquest reveal some of the very

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00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,640
internal struggles that could 
have led to that destruction. 

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00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,360
But they were able to manage 
things in a way that didn't do 

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00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,600
that for thousands of years and 
yet. 

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00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,000
Well, the blacks. 
And Greens didn't do whatever 

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00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,840
the old Valyrian dragon riders 
were able to do. 

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00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:23,280
So we're going to examine how 
that lack of unity still managed

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00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,520
to avoid complete destruction, 
unlike the Blacks and Greens. 

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00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,600
Then we'll discuss how the 
Targaryens. 

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Had a unique opportunity when 
the Doom made them the lone 

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00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,440
dragon rider family in the world
and how the Iron Throne itself 

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00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,600
might be a key reason they blew 
that massive advantage. 

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So from Valyria all the way up 
till right before the Dance of 

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00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,120
the Dragons, we've got all that 
and more on this episode of 

36
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:53,720
History of Westeros podcast. 
Hello and welcome everybody. 

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00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,160
As of this recording, we are 
getting very close to House of 

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00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,200
the Dragons Season 2. 
This is a book topic, book 

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00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,800
centric episode. 
But of course, Fire and Blood, 

40
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,520
especially season one of House 
of the Dragon, lines up pretty 

41
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,080
well with a lot of the events of
the books. 

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00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,360
So a lot of times when we 
discuss one, it really does 

43
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,040
discuss the other and we're 
excited for that during the 

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00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,760
season. 
Since it's coming close, I'll 

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00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,840
let you know. 
House of the Dragon streams are 

46
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,560
going to be at six Eastern on 
Mondays and three Eastern on 

47
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,440
Saturdays. 
The Saturday episodes will be 

48
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,080
spoilery. 
We'll be looking towards the 

49
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,160
next episodes, laying out 
everything we know. 

50
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,360
The Monday episodes will not be.
We'll be discussing what 

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00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,520
happened and only what we know 
from trailers and things like 

52
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,000
that. 
We'll also do some episodes on 

53
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,640
Wednesdays at 7 Eastern. 
Some of those will be live, some

54
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,400
of them won't be. 
And the topics will be TBD. 

55
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,520
It's going to partly be a play 
by ear based on what things 

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00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,880
happened during the season kind 
of deal. 

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00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,880
The episodes on Monday might be 
spoilery depending on how good 

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00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,960
my predictions are. 
That's true. 

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00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,720
That's true. 
The last frontier of Sean's 

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00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,240
Unsullied Dumb is the Dance of 
the Dragons and the few events 

61
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,240
that occur afterwards in fire 
and blood. 

62
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,000
So we're going to do it like. 
That just as we did last year, 

63
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,120
It's been a lot of fun and we'll
keep it rolling that way. 

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00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,360
After every episode, whether 
it's a book centric episode or 

65
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,200
ATV centric episode, you'll find
the video up on YouTube, the 

66
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,320
original live stream you'll be 
able to find an edited version 

67
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,840
up on Spotify, and anywhere you 
find podcast you'll be able to 

68
00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:28,880
find an audio only version. 
If you go to Patreon though and 

69
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,160
sign up to be a supporter of 
History of Westeros, you get 

70
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,800
those ad free. 
So that's a nice little bonus, 

71
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,680
as well as getting bonus 
episodes and access to scripts 

72
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,880
and voting on polls. 
Other fun stuff we offer if you 

73
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,800
join us on Patreon. 
So hey Sean, we're, we're black 

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00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,040
and green today. 
We've got our colors lined up 

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00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,560
and you've got the office, I've 
got Dragonstone. 

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00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,800
It's about the same really. 
The office is located on 

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Dragonstone. 
Scranton is the Westerosi word 

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00:04:55,840 --> 00:05:00,760
for Dragonstone, so you know. 
Is the path up to Dragonstone 

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00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,920
Abbey Road. 
Yeah, I guess it must. 

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00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,440
Clarify this is a mash up shirt.
Yeah, you're right. 

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00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,280
My. 
My all time top band, The 

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00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:11,360
Beatles and my all time top show
The Office and coincidentally 

83
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,360
this shirt green. 
Yeah, also shout out to our good

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00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,400
friend Nina. 
Her blog is over at 

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00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,720
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 
That's one Y in alley, and the 

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00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,800
latest post over there is right 
up her alley. 

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00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,600
Her alley? 
Hey, I didn't even mean to make 

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00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,440
that pun, but it works pretty 
well. 

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00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,880
She got a question. 
Do you see a similarity between 

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00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,280
Marjorie Tyrell being put on 
trial and the trial itself of 

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00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,360
the daughters in law of King 
Philip the Fair of France in the

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00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,640
Accursed Kings? 
Now Nina loves questions about 

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00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,400
the accursed Kings. 
It is most likely her favorite 

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00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,240
parallel to discuss to A Song of
Ice and Fire and two of her 

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00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,800
favorite novels of all time or 
series of all time. 

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00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,520
And yeah, she loves that 
discussion, so check it out. 

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00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,160
She's basically the short answer
is yes, she does see a 

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similarity in between those two,
but if you want the details, 

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00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,160
you'll have to go to 
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com as I 

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00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,200
do on a regular basis. 
If you have questions about this

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00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,360
episode or any other, go to 
westeroshistory@gmail.com or 

102
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,880
send us an e-mail to that 
address rather Westeros 

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00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,240
history@gmail.com. 
Or if you want to and you're 

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00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,000
live here with us, just post a 
question in the comments box. 

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00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,840
And there's a decent chance of 
Shay will grab it and we will 

106
00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,360
answer it and or discuss it. 
Also at the end of this episode,

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00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,760
I will give you some suggestions
for more episodes that relate to

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00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,640
the topics in this one so as to 
facilitate further immersion in 

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00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,600
the world of Westeros. 
Also will be the answer to this 

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00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,160
trivia question, which is we're 
told the largest ever army 

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assembled in Westeros was at the
field of fire. 

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00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,440
That was 55,000 soldiers on one 
side there. 

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00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,520
That's just the one sides army. 
What was the largest single size

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army ever assembled in Essos? 
Yes, let me tell you, it's 

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larger than 55,000 soldiers. 
And the answer, as usual, is in 

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this episode. 
Pay close attention, you'll know

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the answer. 
If you don't already. 

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You know, before we dive into 
this, I wanted to preface it 

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with a thought that was 
dominating my mind prepping for 

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00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,120
this. 
It reminds me a lot that this 

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00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,040
topic reminds me a lot of the 
movie War Games with Matthew 

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Brodick in the 80s. 
Oh yeah, I love that movie. 

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Yeah. 
And, you know, the, the idea is 

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that, you know, there's a, you 
know, computer technology is 

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assisting, you know, the powers 
that be, the Pentagon or 

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00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,680
whatever, and the management of 
the nuclear warheads and the 

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00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,600
computer is kind of becoming 
sentient and it, and it just 

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doesn't understand the idea that
everyone loses in nuclear war. 

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00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,560
You know, Matthew Brock's like a
young kid. 

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00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,640
He's like hacked into computer 
and Pentagon's who is this kid? 

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00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,800
And you know, it's all this 
intrigue unravels. 

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But but you know, eventually the
computer kind of learns, you 

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00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,920
know, that that you could, you 
just can't win. 

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And, you know, the the only, the
only way to win is not to play 

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00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,160
the game. 
You know, and I that that 

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00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,520
thought process was dominating 
my mind a lot throughout the 

137
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,560
course of thinking about, you 
know, basically this episode 

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we're going to talk about like 
how destructive Dragons can be 

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00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,960
and how the Targaryens over time
use them destructively against 

140
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,360
opponents. 
But in the Dance of Dragons, 

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00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:08,400
they use them against each 
other. 

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00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,920
And then so like they just 
can't. 

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00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,560
There's not a way to win in that
scenario, you know? 

144
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,760
Yeah, that's a great. 
Analogy because not only does it

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00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,520
use the phrase game, not only 
war games, and we talk about if 

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00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,040
you play the Game of Thrones, 
you win or you die, especially 

147
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,440
if you play with Dragons. 
And George himself has used that

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00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,280
nuclear comparison many times. 
And it is appropriate because of

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00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,800
that analogy, because no one 
wins if nukes are deployed. 

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00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,200
So yeah, peace is always the 
goal, right, In any society. 

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00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,559
But sometimes peace has reigned 
so long that the horrors of war 

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are forgotten, and that those 
memories are a big. 

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00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,040
Part of what keeps you from 
making that mistake again, those

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00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,720
lessons have to be not you don't
have to repeat the lessons, but 

155
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,040
you have to remember the lessons
in order to not repeat them. 

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00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,640
But if and if you don't, then 
you kind of inevitably do repeat

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00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,280
them. 
Not to nitpick or two point too 

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00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,120
much, but I I would say that 
peace should be a goal. 

159
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,080
Yeah, it isn't always. 
You're right, You're right. 

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00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,360
Sometimes the ruler's goal is to
maintain a power, and also peace

161
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,080
is a goal, but maybe even the 
main goal. 

162
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,720
But you know, liberty and 
justice are also goals you. 

163
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,480
Know. 
Sure, sure. 

164
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:13,760
You could. 
At some point you might be 

165
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,760
willing to to fight to go to war
or whatever for the sake of 

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00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,600
liberty and justice. 
But when you go to war with 

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00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,440
Dragons and nuclear weapons, 
it's like no one has liberty or 

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00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,000
justice when everyone's dead, 
right? 

169
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It's it's terrible, It's so bad.
Yeah. 

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00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,120
So the the best I the the reason
it's another rather another 

171
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,000
reason it's such a great 
comparison to nuclear weapons is

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that it's a deterrent. 
No one wants to go into nuclear 

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00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,440
war. 
I mean no, hopefully no one 

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00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,720
wants to like. 
Really like you. 

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00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,960
Shouldn't want to. 
Which is why it's effective. 

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00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,520
Neither side uses them. 
They both. 

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00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,680
Know OK, let's not fight 
because, well, both sides can 

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00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,520
utterly annihilate the other 
it's not the best system, but if

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people understand it, it does 
keep either side from actually 

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using them and the Dragons 
should work similarly but. 

181
00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,440
Yeah, if, if we do fight, we'll 
fight via some proxy, right? 

182
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,320
We'll fight over some other 
foreign territory or some 

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00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,680
political control. 
Maybe we'll even like send some 

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00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:10,600
troops on foot and but we're not
gonna like really go to war. 

185
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,000
Yeah, exactly. 
Slash nuclear weapons, right? 

186
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,320
Which is what happens in the 
real world. 

187
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,920
There's lots of wars going on 
right now that involve nuclear 

188
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,120
powers that just they're not 
stupid enough to deploy their 

189
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:20,320
nukes. 
They might threaten it, they 

190
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,280
might rattle that Saber. 
But to date, you know, we 

191
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,040
haven't had nuclear war. 
We've had nuclear bombs drop, 

192
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,720
but it wasn't nuclear war, so. 
Don't jinx, it is easy. 

193
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,080
Yeah, right. 
So. 

194
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,760
The. 
The Valyrians held this power 

195
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,840
for thousands of years and no 
other world power did. 

196
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,720
It's sort of the equivalent of 1
nuclear state existing in the 

197
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,560
world and none others. 
And yes, the Valyrians learned 

198
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,200
to only use that power for the 
most part. 

199
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,840
I mean, obviously there's lots 
of parts of their history we 

200
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,120
don't know, but. 
Clearly, they didn't. 

201
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,080
Self destruct because they kept 
going for thousands of years 

202
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,880
until, well, the doom did 
destroy them, but that wasn't 

203
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,800
necessarily self destruction 
anyway. 

204
00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,120
It's an interesting comparison 
to the real world. 

205
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,680
It can because it's humanity 
that makes it more dangerous. 

206
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,240
Nuclear power is a real thing. 
It happens naturally in the sun 

207
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:06,560
and other stars. 
Right? 

208
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,600
Just like if Dragons were real, 
they wouldn't kill people nearly

209
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,640
as often as when they're ridden 
and controlled by humans. 

210
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,560
Like we've seen the behavior of 
wild Dragons in this world. 

211
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,360
Both under Daenerys and during 
this year. 

212
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,600
And yes they do occasionally 
kill a her a person, but they 

213
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,880
don't like torch entire armies 
or castles or anything like 

214
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,760
that. 
That's with humans behind the 

215
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,240
wheel. 
Same with nuclear. 

216
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,360
Power. 
So when the Doom came along, 

217
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,120
yeah, they dodged. 
That fate of being annihilated 

218
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,720
with everybody else? 
They had just enough Dragons to 

219
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,000
perhaps restart the whole 
population with them in control 

220
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,640
of it all instead of 40 families
with them at the bottom. 

221
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,640
They could dictate this new 
world of draconic power, but 

222
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,240
interestingly, they just kind of
sat on it for 100 years. 

223
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:55,320
The number of Dragons didn't 
increase and they well, it 

224
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,360
stayed that way. 
So it shows like the willpower 

225
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,280
of one individual, or at least a
few individuals is required to 

226
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,360
expand beyond that. 
But maybe they were smarter than

227
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,880
Aegon, right? 
Maybe they did the right thing. 

228
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,840
Things didn't start going 
downhill for the Targaryens 

229
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,560
until they had the Iron Throne. 
So that's going to be a big 

230
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,840
topic today when they when Anar 
the. 

231
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:18,040
Exile brought his family over 
from Valyria, you know, 12 years

232
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,560
ahead of the doom. 
Yeah, they brought the Dragons, 

233
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,360
they brought their saddles, they
brought dragon keepers, they 

234
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,960
brought knowledge of. 
Dragons needing to live in 

235
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,160
volcanoes. 
They knew how to hatch eggs. 

236
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,280
They knew all these things, but 
they didn't bring with them 

237
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,920
probably the most important 
lesson, the wisdom of not 

238
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,880
pitting dragon versus dragon. 
Or perhaps they did and just 

239
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,160
forgot it later at at some. 
Point. 

240
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,680
They seem to have forgotten how 
important that was. 

241
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,800
Now there's they never. 
Fully forgot it. 

242
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,360
Even in this latest season. 
We have quotes during the 

243
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,720
trailers of how bad an idea it 
is to do this. 

244
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,360
But that's just usually one or 
two intelligent individuals 

245
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,960
standing against, you know, a 
tidal wave of forgetfulness or 

246
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,000
stupidity or naivete. 
Whatever you want to, whatever 

247
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,600
terms you want to use. 
Most of the people are ready to 

248
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,680
go to war, whereas only a few 
voices of wisdom are like. 

249
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,080
No. 
Don't do that. 

250
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,880
Like Sean said, the two nuclear 
states launching against each 

251
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,360
other. 
It's most likely the end of both

252
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,120
and not to mention some of their
neighbors. 

253
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,280
Perhaps so. 
So the Blacks and Greens forgot 

254
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,240
if they ever knew, if they were 
ever taught in the 1st place 

255
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,480
what the Dragons were capable 
of. 

256
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,200
They know the power you feel 
when you're sitting in the 

257
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,040
saddle lying high above. 
It was the first scene we. 

258
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,560
Saw in the show, in fact, was 
Rainier flying over besides that

259
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:38,240
quick shot of, you know, the. 
Great council, but the I they 

260
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,040
never learned. 
Not to turn that against each 

261
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,920
other the less is why some of 
it's some of it's obvious right.

262
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,160
But if you really get into why 
it looks like madness, it's the 

263
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,160
only way they could lose their 
top spot not just in Westeros 

264
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,000
but in the world. 
So this was the lesson that kept

265
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,280
the freehold from destroying 
itself for thousands of years. 

266
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,640
They figured it out somehow that
not to destroy each other 

267
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,400
somehow they they put put laws, 
customs restrictions, who knows 

268
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,240
we're going to we're going to 
theorize about some of those 

269
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,480
things, but. 
It's a war, and all of that 

270
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,840
ended thousands of. 
Years of Dragons and dragon 

271
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,760
riders it all ended because of a
war that might never have 

272
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,800
happened if they had just 
remembered the lessons of the 

273
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,880
past and of course history of 
Westeros. 

274
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,840
We're going to we're going to 
emphasize the lessons of the 

275
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,080
past as much as we can. 
Super chat from Zach Remley says

276
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,160
history of Westeros. 
Let's go. 

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00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,720
I love you guys. 
Well, well, thank you. 

278
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,080
We love you too. 
And we love, we love that we're 

279
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,600
getting into another peak of of 
attention here with the show 

280
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,760
season coming upon us and lots 
of excitement building up. 

281
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,080
So we've got lots of content 
coming for y'all. 

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00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,560
By the way, once again, I don't 
mean the mince words, but I want

283
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,200
to point out it's not just like 
forgetting the lessons. 

284
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,720
Like you have to teach them, you
have to pass them on like this. 

285
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,160
This new generation of Targaryen
kids, it's not like they knew 

286
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,160
and forgot it. 
No one told. 

287
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,080
No one taught it to them, as far
as we could tell. 

288
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:58,400
You know, or they didn't teach 
them enough. 

289
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,680
They didn't emphasize it. 
Like they kind of know on some 

290
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,120
level. 
It's just kind of obvious on 

291
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,200
some level. 
But it's not obvious enough. 

292
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,040
It's not like why? 
It's so important, paramount or 

293
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,760
foundational to to their 
mentalities or philosophies or 

294
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,800
objectives or whatever. 
They they, they, they seem to 

295
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:21,360
have relatively temporary or 
slash emotional motivations that

296
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,800
are about to have world changing
consequences that that they're 

297
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,680
not weighing against the 
knowledge of the world changing 

298
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,800
consequences. 
Yeah, it's like a strategy. 

299
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,280
You should say OK, like in when 
you when two people go to war, 

300
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,680
when two people are going to 
fight, often times the one who's

301
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,040
willing. 
Like you said, Sean, you said 

302
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,800
you brought this up before the 
the first person that really 

303
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,960
realizes it's a fight, the 
person that's willing to go the 

304
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,680
farthest. 
That can be an advantage. 

305
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,400
This is. 
This is why. 

306
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,920
It's kind of natural that it 
went this way and why it's a 

307
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,160
lesson that needs to be taught 
and enforced because if you just

308
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,640
go the general like attitude 
towards war and fighting this, 

309
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,520
it will end in self destruction 
because the weapons of war are 

310
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,880
that powerful. 
If it's just swords and Spears 

311
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,920
and arrows, well, you probably 
won't just wipe everybody. 

312
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,400
One side won't just both sides 
won't wipe each other out. 

313
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,160
They might severely handicap 
each other or damage each other,

314
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,120
but it won't be like outright 
genocide of both sides, right? 

315
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,000
Because they they just don't 
have the the technology doesn't 

316
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,000
exist except with this. 
This is the one thing that is 

317
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,360
above the. 
Board, a new thought popped in 

318
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,960
my head. 
It's something else I think 

319
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,120
we've talked about before is the
idea that throughout history, 

320
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,200
like in the real world, 
throughout history, there's been

321
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,680
this sort of limitation on how 
much damage you could do in in 

322
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,960
war or whatever, right? 
Like originally you like punch 

323
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,840
someone or hit them with a rock 
or maybe throw a rock, shoot a 

324
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,280
bow and arrow. 
But that's still just one person

325
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,560
hurting one person at a 
relatively limited range. 

326
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,880
But then eventually you had 
maybe like catapults, you know, 

327
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,280
like, you know, bows and arrows 
were an advancement over like 

328
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,240
punching. 
And then catapults maybe could 

329
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,440
hurt several people at once from
a significant distance. 

330
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,120
And eventually you have, you 
know, artillery and machine guns

331
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,680
and it starts to become one, a 
little easier for one person to 

332
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,680
do a lot of damage to a lot of 
people at a greater distance. 

333
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,720
And you get to the most extreme 
with the nuclear weapon. 

334
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,720
But it took thousands of years 
for human society to kind of 

335
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,240
make that progression. 
But in in Martin's world, it's 

336
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,319
it's been that way for thousands
of. 

337
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,680
Years the technological 
advantage had already existed it

338
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,560
was a natural thing yeah it's 
it's totally different or maybe 

339
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,839
even supernatural you want to 
call it but it wasn't technology

340
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,839
which is a great point cause 
yeah like in human history 

341
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,880
you've only had. 
Machine guns for what, a 

342
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,000
hundred, 120 years? 
Something like that? 

343
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,360
Not, not super. 
Long 150 the original 

344
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,240
rudimentary A. 
Fraction of the length of human 

345
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,560
history is the point right. 
Like this is relatively new, but

346
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,960
you so that's a great point that
it's it's existed much longer. 

347
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,640
So yeah, Valyria had wealth and 
soldiers as well, and that's 

348
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,800
most of what their conquest 
involved. 

349
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,560
It wasn't. 
The Dragons didn't play a role 

350
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,520
in or played a small role in a 
lot of their conquests in. 

351
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,080
Part. 
Because, well, it wasn't 

352
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,640
necessary in the other part, 
because the 40 dragon rider 

353
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,320
families were mostly concerned 
with internal power struggles 

354
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,640
and usually the expansion. 
If one dragon rider family is 

355
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,520
gaining power outside of the 
city by engaging in conquest, 

356
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,080
well, I don't know that the 
other dragon rider families 

357
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,800
wants to support that. 
Because then that makes that #3 

358
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,200
dragon rider family jump to 
number one and #1 and two don't 

359
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,080
want that to happen. 
So there are a lot of times 

360
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,640
going to sabotage each other's 
efforts outside of the city, 

361
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:28,440
which frees up the more regular 
conquests to to take place. 

362
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,920
But another point is that a lot 
of nations will just surrender. 

363
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,360
Like if. 
The modern U.S. military. 

364
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,440
Marches up to, I don't know, 
almost any country really. 

365
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:39,720
They're just the US is really 
powerful. 

366
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,360
Let's say they just March to 
like Barbados, you know, 

367
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,720
something really small, it 
doesn't even really have a Navy 

368
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:45,960
or an army. 
They'll be like, yes, we 

369
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,440
surrender. 
Like, of course, apart from 

370
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,160
world diplomatic consequences 
for the US, let's just pretend 

371
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,240
that's not a thing. 
Yes, of course they're just 

372
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,240
like, yeah, we can't win. 
Of course we surrender. 

373
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,720
That's what a lot of nations are
going to do because like, yeah, 

374
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,040
well, they have Dragons. 
Like we can't fight that. 

375
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,680
We, it's better to to bend the 
knee and live to live under this

376
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,280
yoke than it is to die. 
Now, that's not going to be true

377
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,000
for everybody because some 
people are going to be enslaved 

378
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,800
and they're just like, no, I 
would rather fight to the death 

379
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,000
because it's slavery. 
Like yes, I would rather fight a

380
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,520
dragon than be enslaved. 
You might have to face the 

381
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,280
overpowering force, might have, 
might get the surrender in a 

382
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,520
moment, but then face 
subversion, guerrilla warfare, 

383
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,240
terrorism, whatever down the 
road. 

384
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,960
Yeah. 
And a small people, group of 

385
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,480
people. 
You know, it depends on what's 

386
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,000
at stake. 
If we say like, we're going to 

387
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,920
take over your country and we're
going to tax you 10%, like, OK, 

388
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,040
otherwise you destroy us, sure. 
But if we if you say we're going

389
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,440
to take over your country and 
enslave every man, woman and 

390
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,520
child, like, well, you might as 
well fight to the death over 

391
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:40,520
that, right? 
Absolutely. 

392
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:41,600
And so what's at stake, you 
know? 

393
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,320
Yeah, and with the with Valyria,
it's a little of both because 

394
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,800
they will enslave a lot of 
people, but they won't enslave 

395
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,400
everybody because they do want 
to keep it a functioning nation 

396
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,800
that they can tax and draw 
repeated wealth from rather than

397
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,680
just one shot and destroy the 
whole society and loot the whole

398
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,160
thing. 
They're not the Dothraki. 

399
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,080
That's what the Dothraki would 
do, for example. 

400
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,800
Also kind of a a dark thought, 
but is it strong chance that 

401
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,280
they're just going to enslave 
people that were already 

402
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,000
enslaved? 
Just going to be our slave 

403
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,520
instead of your slaves in. 
In. 

404
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,520
Some cases, yes, like with with 
the Ghiscari, but not with the 

405
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,440
Roynar or the Andal's. 
So yeah, you're right, it 

406
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,520
depends. 
But it couldn't have always been

407
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,840
this way. 
And what I mean about Valyria, 

408
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,360
they weren't always just 
outward. 

409
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,320
They had to start off learning 
from their mistakes like any 

410
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,680
other nation would I I doubt 
very much the very first 

411
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:33,560
Valyrians to tame Dragons 
immediately attuned a deeply 

412
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,040
held prohibition against 
fighting one another on dragon 

413
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:36,720
back. 
Right. 

414
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,840
Like a lot of animals are stupid
enough to do that in the real 

415
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,000
world. 
Like there's a lot of animals, 

416
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,040
like snakes will kill each 
other. 

417
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,280
Like they'll wrap around each 
other like a poisonous snake 

418
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,160
versus a constrictor. 
Like the pricing videos of this 

419
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,440
out there, they're certainly 
available if you have that kind 

420
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,280
of curiosity. 
Like a Python strangling or boa 

421
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,880
constrictor strangling another 
poisonous snake with a poisonous

422
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,640
snake bites the boa and they 
both die. 

423
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,160
Like this sort of thing happens 
in the real world. 

424
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,840
Animals kill each other because 
they're just so single minded or

425
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,640
what have you. 
Humans have don't have that 

426
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,640
excuse for the most part. 
They should be able to learn 

427
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,240
from their mistakes. 
But yeah, you kind of wonder 

428
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,160
like wild Dragons, like, again, 
bringing them up, they don't do 

429
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,440
a whole lot of damage to 
humanity. 

430
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,560
They'll occasionally steal a 
sheep. 

431
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,000
Here and there. 
But yeah, it might ironically be

432
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,320
humans that cause them to behave
even more stupidly. 

433
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,080
They make them more likely to 
kill each other. 

434
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,160
They make them more likely to 
drive them into violence. 

435
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,520
So records records of wars. 
In Valyria, meaning Valyrian 

436
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,880
wars against Valyria, wars 
against itself. 

437
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,080
We don't have that, but it had 
to have happened. 

438
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,600
I mean, it's like what nation 
doesn't have some infighting 

439
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,280
when it's new or even when it's 
not new? 

440
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,680
Now we don't know whether this 
what that entailed, but. 

441
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,920
It's easy to imagine some dragon
Little Rider families going to 

442
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,240
war against each other, causing 
great devastation. 

443
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,680
So many nations. 
Have this in the real world. 

444
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,280
Have this history where they 
just just keep. 

445
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,480
Fighting and fighting and 
fighting. 

446
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,920
And destroying each other over 
and over. 

447
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,080
And maybe, maybe eventually they
learn not to do that. 

448
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,000
And sometimes those lessons last
for a long time. 

449
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,720
But of course, those lessons 
never involve the kind of level 

450
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,040
of technology that the Dragons 
bring to the table, which is 

451
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,720
just blowing everything away in 
a manner that wouldn't be 

452
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,600
possible. 
Otherwise, if the dragon. 

453
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,200
Lords of long ago of Valyria had
torn each other apart as much as

454
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,080
the Blacks and Greens are about 
to. 

455
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,120
Dragons might have just gone 
extinct a lot sooner, right? 

456
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,000
Like they clearly didn't go the 
quite that far. 

457
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,440
Maybe there were cases where a 
couple of dragon rider families 

458
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,560
went next to war against each 
other and the others sat back 

459
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,520
and reaped the rewards of not 
shredding each other and just 

460
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,040
eventually they just learned 
it's just. 

461
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,760
Stupid to do this. 
Somehow they got. 

462
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,320
Over that I imagine this early 
phase of self destruction that 

463
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:59,600
the surviving elites formed of 
spoken or unspoken pack not to 

464
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,200
use Dragons against each other. 
Kind of like how so far the the 

465
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,320
real world has again knock on 
wood hasn't. 

466
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,720
It's only one side has nuked 
others but there's never been a 

467
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,320
back and forth exchange of 
nukes. 

468
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,880
Let's hope it stays that way, 
but I'm guessing it didn't stay 

469
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,480
that way in old Deliria. 
They did. 

470
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,840
It was too early. 
The technology wasn't evolved, 

471
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,000
evolved over time, like you 
said, it was just there for the 

472
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,640
taking. 
One day people learn to fly 

473
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,400
Dragons. 
And how long before they started

474
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,640
turning that against each other?
Probably not long, right? 

475
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,920
But we're talking thousands of 
years that they had of this, of 

476
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,840
figuring it out, of trial and 
error, of societal evolution, of

477
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,480
saying, OK, maybe this time we 
won't turn the Dragons on each 

478
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,600
other. 
Maybe this time we've learned 

479
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,040
our. 
Lesson Maybe it took them just. 

480
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,560
Dozens of of iterations, but 
finally it it stuck. 

481
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,440
And they're like, all right, we 
don't do this to each other. 

482
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,440
We've learned our lesson over 
hundreds if not thousands of 

483
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,520
years of destroying each other. 
Let's finally not do that. 

484
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,040
There's similar prohibitions in 
other societies. 

485
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,760
I'm talking sure there's there's
real world ones too. 

486
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,280
But I we can. 
Just stick to Westeros or Essos 

487
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,320
really for that. 
Like the Ironborn aren't 

488
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,080
supposed to fight other 
Ironborn, that's a religious 

489
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,800
prohibition. 
They obviously do it anyway. 

490
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,520
But it's there and it partly 
works. 

491
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,000
It certainly stopped them it it 
certainly has prevented some 

492
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,680
violence, just not all of it. 
I wish they would go ahead and 

493
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,640
take each other. 
Out it's a. 

494
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,160
Similar thing, though, they 
they're much more successful as 

495
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,040
a society when they don't fight 
each other. 

496
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,760
It does it does make sense even 
for a for a, a country that's 

497
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,840
just rife with violence, it 
makes sense that they would 

498
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,400
evolve to mostly inflict that on
others. 

499
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,840
Like obviously, like if I'm with
you, Sean, it would be better if

500
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,240
they just only inflicted it on 
themselves and didn't go out 

501
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,000
slaving and torturing and and 
pillaging and all that other 

502
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,600
stuff. 
If you had a a, a righteous, 

503
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,080
just enlightened culture and 
they went to war amongst 

504
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,440
themselves, that'd be kind of 
disappointing and they would be 

505
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,280
unlikely to go to war against 
other people. 

506
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,200
But when you have a country 
who's based on slavery and 

507
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,560
destruction and like, please do 
that just to yourselves and not 

508
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:06,680
other people. 
Yeah. 

509
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:10,120
So the guess right is a similar 
one. 

510
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:14,600
Like the idea that you 
shouldn't, that it's this huge 

511
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,400
societal and cultural 
prohibition against killing 

512
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,960
someone that gives you shelter. 
That had to evolve. 

513
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,440
From something like otherwise, 
like society can't function if 

514
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,920
people are just afraid to let 
people in, you know, like 

515
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,200
everyone's an enemy. 
Everyone might potentially kill 

516
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,320
me and steal my house. 
You know, like no society's 

517
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,400
going to get off the ground if 
people are doing that. 

518
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,760
So you can you can understand 
this might be a thing. 

519
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,560
Because that was a thing. 
There's a big prohibition 

520
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,600
against it because it was a real
problem, right? 

521
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,360
Like it, it wouldn't prohibit 
something that isn't an issue. 

522
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,320
Let me give you an example real 
world example. 

523
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,600
In in the. 
US, the US of A, we have drunk 

524
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,600
driving laws. 
Every state has drunk driving 

525
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,280
laws. 
There's countries in this world 

526
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,200
that don't. 
It might surprise you if you 

527
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,320
live in the US to hear that, 
because it's like, really? 

528
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,840
Isn't that a problem? 
People driving drunk? 

529
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,800
Not really. 
Yeah, for some reason, Americans

530
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,520
are just worse with drunk 
driving. 

531
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,960
We're just more violent. 
We cause more damage with it. 

532
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:11,240
We have more driving, too. 
There are more people with cars 

533
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,680
and roads and higher speed 
limits, and it's more, yeah. 

534
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,200
So you, you look at these things
and you must think it must have 

535
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,360
been a thing. 
It must to, to prohibit it and 

536
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:20,160
to have a serious cultural 
prohibition. 

537
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,360
Again, it must have been a 
problem. 

538
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:26,480
Like no spilling blood at Vase 
Dothrak right now they get 

539
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,440
around. 
That with strangling and molten 

540
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,440
gold. 
But they do care about the rule 

541
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,880
enough to work around it, rather
just to ignore it, right? 

542
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,200
It it's it's. 
Stuck at some point they 

543
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,080
established that rule for a 
reason, and they might find some

544
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,800
ways around the letter of the 
law, but it seems like they 

545
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,320
generally follow the spirit of 
the. 

546
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,360
Law, and you can see why it 
makes sense even of warlike 

547
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,360
culture. 
That like they have a central 

548
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,440
meeting place, you got to have 
rules against fighting if. 

549
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,160
You're going to. 
Have all these like people whose

550
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,480
whole world view is all about 
violence and fighting, and 

551
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:00,800
that's the best thing you can do
well. 

552
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,640
You got to have a place where 
that doesn't happen, or else 

553
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,040
you'll just destroy your own 
capital. 

554
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,720
Your, their, their. 
The Dothraki culture would have 

555
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,880
collapsed. 
It's already not that strong as 

556
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,120
a civilization, but yeah. 
Even when you're already at war 

557
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,720
and you're determined to wipe 
out your enemies, there's still 

558
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,520
this agreement that we're not 
going to kill the invoice. 

559
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,160
Yeah, right. 
Someone. 

560
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,320
Banners. 
Stuff. 

561
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,360
Awful, terrible thing that no 
one can believe happen when 

562
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,560
someone kills an envoy. 
You know, so so let's have a a 

563
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,440
quick. 
Quote here that sort of frames 

564
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,840
this a little bit more for the 
Valerians. 

565
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,160
Here's what we're told briefly. 
Quote. 

566
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:38,400
At its apex, Valyria was the 
greatest city in the known 

567
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
world, the center of 
civilization. 

568
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,440
Within its shining walls, 2 
score rival houses vied for 

569
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:51,800
power and glory in court and 
council, rising and falling in 

570
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:57,680
an endless, subtle, OFT savage 
struggle for dominance. 

571
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,760
This is why we're so certain 
there was infighting. 

572
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,960
I mean, this is power. 
We're talking about world grand 

573
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,880
power on an epic scale. 
So it's not hard to guess. 

574
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,280
People wanted that, sought it, 
tried to claim it, tried to take

575
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,240
it, went all out. 
But. 

576
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,800
It's not quite the Game of 
Thrones, is it? 

577
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,360
Because there's no throne? 
Some major point we'll keep 

578
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,440
coming back to you. 
If you create an office that 

579
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,360
dominates everyone, then people 
will fight for that office. 

580
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,560
The Valyrians, that was a smart 
from their perspective, cultural

581
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,040
innovation not to have that 
office in the 1st place. 

582
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,520
Don't have a king, don't have an
emperor, then you don't all 

583
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,320
fight each other for it because 
that is who would fight. 

584
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,360
The dragon rider families would 
fight each other for that and 

585
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:39,760
they would use their Dragons 
because it's absolute power. 

586
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,720
Better to not have that office 
at all then they don't have to 

587
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,800
fight each other then it. 
It enables them to continue to 

588
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,560
look outward rather than 
fighting each other. 

589
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,600
And it says that. 
It says subtle, OFT savage, 

590
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,360
endless struggle for dominance, 
but not destructive. 

591
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,560
They're not raining fire down on
each other's castles or 

592
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,800
mansions, whatever buildings 
they had in Valyria. 

593
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,800
We always come back to the lack 
of knowledge about some of these

594
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,280
specifics. 
But could it really have lasted?

595
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,840
Could they have risen to be the 
most powerful nation in the 

596
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,520
world if they were constantly 
just raining fire on each other?

597
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,800
I really don't think so 'cause 
Dragons are just so destructive,

598
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,520
right? 
And and we'll see. 

599
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,680
Examples. 
Where there is 100 or even 300 

600
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,960
Dragons functioning in the same 
military operation. 

601
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,880
A rare thing, but it did. 
Happen, and it wouldn't have if 

602
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,600
they were constantly fighting 
each other 'cause these Dragons 

603
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,240
would just be killing each 
other, right? 

604
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,920
Like, Dragons are offensive 
weapons. 

605
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,320
They're not defense. 
They don't carry Shields. 

606
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Scales are pretty tough, but 
long necks and. 

607
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Yeah, they're just. 
Vulnerable. 

608
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,480
They have bellies that are big 
and yeah, they're. 

609
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,560
I don't think their scales are 
as tough as teeth. 

610
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,680
Right. 
No, they're not not very, very 

611
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,800
unusual cases only are 
exceptions. 

612
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,160
Yeah, their. 
Scales might be tougher than 

613
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,880
Archer's arrows, you know that. 
That's why they're effective. 

614
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,040
But when they turn on each 
other, they can, and it's hard 

615
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,840
for one dragon to kill another 
dragon without also endangering 

616
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,720
itself of being killed. 
Like sometimes the size 

617
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,200
difference can can can help. 
And maybe with numbers things 

618
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,960
could be different. 
We don't have a lot of knowledge

619
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,920
of like dogfights of multiple 
Dragons. 

620
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,760
Yeah, if 3. 
Take three smaller ones, taking 

621
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,560
on one. 
Could they like, maybe if with 

622
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,960
the proper training and tactics,
that might be doable. 

623
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,480
But that's the kind of thing we 
don't see. 

624
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,320
We don't know there. 
There might be written about, 

625
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,240
there might be books about that.
More on that later. 

626
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,600
So not only was it likely a 
cultural evolution, but probably

627
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,480
a societal evolution. 
It might have even had laws. 

628
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,760
They might have been like look, 
if any of the 40 families turns 

629
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,960
its dragon fire on another there
some sort of prohibition, some 

630
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,600
sort of sanction. 
Maybe the other houses are 

631
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,880
allowed to go to war against 
them if they break that rule, 

632
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,920
like as a last resort, though I 
think still they would you would

633
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,120
use force soldiers poison, even 
sorcery maybe, but the Dragons, 

634
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,120
I think that's that's the 
absolute last resort. 

635
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,200
I. 
Wonder if they had a Wards, you 

636
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,320
know, like a Theon and the 
Starks or whatever. 

637
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,640
I wonder if they had something 
like that. 

638
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,680
That's not unlikely. 
It's such a common real world 

639
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,720
way of keeping peace. 
Because it would not only be in 

640
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,560
in a similar scenario, it would 
not only be like a deterrent, 

641
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,480
like they'll kill my son if I 
turn against them, but also 

642
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,320
having the the children grow up 
with other families makes them 

643
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,840
less likely to want to go to war
with the other families, bond 

644
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,040
with them or whatever. 
Exactly. 

645
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,120
It's the same. 
Concept that that applies to so 

646
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,240
many places so. 
Kind of like how? 

647
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,640
When Aries broke the feudal 
contract, he started just 

648
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,120
murdering great Lords and 
calling for their heads. 

649
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,840
They're like, well, we better 
team up on this guy or he's 

650
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,080
coming for us next. 
This is how the the political 

651
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,080
system in Dune is set up the 
lands rod if like if, if the 

652
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,760
emperor ever tries to attack one
of the great houses, the other 

653
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,680
great houses are have signed an 
agreement to attack the emperor 

654
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,400
so that he won't do that. 
And that's that's basically the 

655
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,080
set up to the whole thing. 
They, they, they so. 

656
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,280
Clearly, the Emperor needs to 
have an even more powerful army.

657
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,960
Yeah, right. 
Exactly so. 

658
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,120
So the bottom line should be for
the Valerians to preserve their 

659
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,160
special unique advantage. 
Don't squander it and wind up 

660
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,800
like every other race on the 
planet. 

661
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,560
Dragonless. 
You have Dragons. 

662
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,600
Don't screw that up. 
Obviously we don't know exactly 

663
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,880
how that evolved, but it did 
somehow over time. 

664
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,800
These because these families 
would have destroyed each other,

665
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:11,800
just like the blacks and the 
greens. 

666
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,480
It took the doom. 
It took something like the doom 

667
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,600
to finally accomplish that, to 
end the world to to to remove 

668
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,680
their authority from most of the
world. 

669
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,000
It took this. 
Hyper geological event that is 

670
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,720
potentially somewhat 
supernatural in either trigger 

671
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,160
or the event itself, who knows, 
but that's not our focus today. 

672
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,960
Let's talk a little more about 
the nature of Dragons. 

673
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,840
Like we we talked about a lot of
this already. 

674
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,600
Let's just kind of focus on it 
for a minute. 

675
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,120
They're far more. 
Destructive than they are 

676
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,640
defensive you have just think 
about flame and tooth and talent

677
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,360
and how. 
Destructive that are versus. 

678
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680
Wings. 
The Dragon's wings are 

679
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,560
incredibly vulnerable. 
We mentioned necks, but wings 

680
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,760
are also extremely vulnerable. 
And like scorpion bolts and 

681
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,360
other large missile weapons, 
those can do pretty serious 

682
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,360
damage with dragon if you hit 
them in the right spot, like in 

683
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,880
an eye or maybe in the neck. 
But it's really hard to aim and 

684
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,840
hit that properly and it might 
not even do that much. 

685
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,000
It might just annoy them. 
For the most part though, human 

686
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,200
weapons aren't equipped to deal 
with the the wings. 

687
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,280
Like even a scorpion bolt 
through a wing would just put a 

688
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,480
hole in it. 
It still would work. 

689
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,320
Like we've seen Veigar flying 
around with some holes in her 

690
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,160
wings. 
She gets around fine, and it 

691
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,040
might heal up a little bit, but 
another dragon biting onto 

692
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,600
another Dragon's wing, that's 
that's pretty quick. 

693
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,320
You're going to make tear 
through that like Kleenex or 

694
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,320
something, That's just weak. 
So I figured the Valyrians had 

695
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,200
figured some of this out too. 
Strategies to deal? 

696
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,880
With anti dragon, anti aircraft,
missile weapons like scorpions 

697
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,480
and things like that. 
Like Aegon the First attacked 

698
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,640
Harrenhal at night. 
That might have been an existing

699
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,160
Valyrian military strategy for 
using Dragons in a way that 

700
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,200
keeps the dragon safe. 
There's two basic strategies for

701
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,800
using a dragon. 
One is just don't use it. 

702
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,280
Use it only as an intimidation 
and fear. 

703
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,200
Two, yeah, like we said, if 
you're going to have a dragon 

704
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,720
fight another dragon, make sure 
you have a huge size advantage. 

705
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,280
Otherwise, don't do it. 
It's a bad idea. 

706
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,400
Again, the long neck your neck 
is, Every creature needs its 

707
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,440
neck. 
It's one of the most vulnerable 

708
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,320
things. 
And Dragons have those hugely 

709
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,000
long necks, which again, humans 
can't take much advantage of 

710
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,280
that, but another dragon can. 
One dragon could bite one 

711
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,040
Dragon's neck while the other 
dragon bites that Dragon's neck.

712
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:25,840
That's how long and gangly they 
are. 

713
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,560
They could just neck each other.
Sounds kinky, yeah. 

714
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,880
So there again, it's like some. 
Grim Uroboros 1 dragon biting 

715
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,520
one while the other bites it. 
Do they both die? 

716
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:44,239
Like like Vagar killed Arax 
without much difficulty, but 

717
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,960
Arax probably would have gotten 
away if he was really trying. 

718
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,000
But you know, Dragons aren't 
smart. 

719
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,040
They're aggressive. 
And maybe with some clever 

720
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,880
maneuvering, Arax. 
Couldn't have killed Vagar but 

721
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,560
Arax might. 
Could have killed Aymond. 

722
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,440
Like, killed the rider with 
mine. 

723
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,400
Like we said, like we theorized 
earlier, maybe three. 

724
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,760
Yeah, like you said, Sean, you 
ever know here? 

725
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,160
What if there were three air 
axes and they were all? 

726
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,720
Three air axes might have been 
able to like it still would have

727
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:11,680
been risky and one of them might
end up dying. 

728
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,720
But if two, you know, if one can
like come from one side and one 

729
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,280
from the other and bigger 
commits to one and one comes 

730
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,880
from behind, bigger chases one 
while the other two come around 

731
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,760
from behind or underneath there.
There's ways with coordination, 

732
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,600
especially if they were trained 
in this and that. 

733
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,520
And that's the type of thing I 
wonder if that there's knowledge

734
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,080
of that, like books that exist 
or existed at some point they 

735
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,800
got lost. 
But I, I, I was thinking a lot 

736
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,440
about in terms of like, I want 
to say Modern Warfare, but I'm 

737
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,280
honestly thinking more about 
like World War 2 where you'd 

738
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,560
have bombers that were kind of 
big and slow and couldn't defend

739
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,880
themselves very well, but they 
could do a lot of damage. 

740
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,520
But they would be escorted by a 
little fighters that were quick 

741
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,200
and maneuverable. 
And the combination of those 

742
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,960
just almost unstoppable. 
It's the same for ships. 

743
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,520
Right. 
You have big old ships with 

744
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,920
little ships, Yeah. 
Bombers, the bombers, the the 

745
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:01,480
little fighters would beat the 
bombers. 

746
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,440
So that is a little bit 
different than the the dragon 

747
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,800
scenario, but it's and but but 
but we don't have that. 

748
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,520
We don't have a scenario we see 
like 3 or 4 little Dragons 

749
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,480
swarming one big dragon. 
But I it would be interesting. 

750
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,440
As far as I know, maybe that 
happens to dance and I just 

751
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,600
don't know it, but. 
And and the Valyrian. 

752
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,880
Dragon wars, we can assume in 
all those thousands of years it 

753
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,120
had to have happened and maybe 
and and it seems likely that 

754
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520
they had tactics and and books 
written about that. 

755
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,160
Now these books, it's not the 
same as we brought up, you know,

756
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,840
the the cultural preservation, 
the the ideas like the Dothraki 

757
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,640
prohibition and guest right. 
Those are society wide. 

758
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,000
The difference here is that 
these is just the dragon. 

759
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,200
Writer Maybe they don't write 
everything down. 

760
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,840
Maybe they want. 
Maybe some of this is like 

761
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,320
family secrets that they don't 
want other families to learn. 

762
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,920
Maybe some of it is like, not 
quite the level of like the Song

763
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,400
of Ice and Fire dream that's 
passed down, but something like 

764
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,480
this, something you keep within 
the family rather than something

765
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,840
you write books about and share 
with everyone because it's 

766
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,400
something that you all learn 
from everyone. 

767
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,880
This might be a little more like
corporate secrets, like the 

768
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,840
recipe to Coke. 
They're not sharing that with 

769
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,960
other soda companies, you know. 
Some things might be hard to 

770
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,800
write down too. 
Some things are maybe kind of 

771
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,120
subtle, like like subtle little 
things that a pilot or race car 

772
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,480
driver, whatever does, it might 
be hard to describe or write or 

773
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,160
teach, You know, all sorts of 
like high level athletes 

774
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,280
probably have a little nuanced 
things that they figure out and 

775
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,640
they might be able to explain to
some other elite athlete on 

776
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,760
their level, like oh, this or 
you could see her in slow motion

777
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,200
film. 
But it'd be hard to write a 

778
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,400
book, or even for someone to 
read it to understand how to do 

779
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,760
what they're writing about, you 
know? 

780
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,240
Exactly. 
Let's talk about some specifics.

781
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,360
We got a lot of different 
conflicts to cover here. 

782
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,320
Let's start with the Gaskari 
wars 'cause that was the first 

783
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,440
big superpower that the 
Valyrians went up against 5000 

784
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:49,760
years ago. 
The Gaskari were the greatest 

785
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,320
power in the world, we're told, 
and they had been that for some 

786
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,360
time. 
And they weren't excited about 

787
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,560
giving up that title to someone 
else because if they had held it

788
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,360
for so long, even though that 
power had an insurmountable 

789
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,120
advantage. 
But I don't think the Ghiscari 

790
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,760
properly came to terms with the 
fact that the Valyrians had an 

791
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,800
insurmountable advantage. 
The Valyrians. 

792
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,440
Took on this Ghiscari, but 
really it was the way around the

793
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,480
Ghiscari. 
Started all five of the Ghiscari

794
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,520
Valyrian Wars. 
Which sounds kind of stupid, 

795
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,640
doesn't it? 
Now maybe the maybe the 

796
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,280
Valerians. 
Who wrote the history? 

797
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,720
Yeah, maybe they didn't, but 
like, I don't know that the 

798
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:25,800
Valerians were shy about being 
conquerors, so I'm not sure they

799
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,400
would have concealed that. 
You know, On the other hand, 

800
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,480
it's like, why? 
Like they weren't like trying to

801
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,880
look nice. 
They were horrible, slaving, 

802
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,600
authoritative monsters in a 
sense. 

803
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:37,720
Like I don't. 
Know that they were concerned 

804
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,040
with looking good. 
Maybe they were. 

805
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,160
Maybe they were and all that. 
Maybe they were when those books

806
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,560
were written. 
I don't know 'cause this would 

807
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,160
have been a long time ago or. 
Maybe they were to some extent 

808
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:50,520
like, you know, Rome had slaves 
and was conquering people, but 

809
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,120
they still wanted to paint the 
Gauls or the with the, the 

810
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,080
Barbarians were Barbarians that,
you know, they, they, they 

811
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,480
didn't talk about how we starved
out these people that had a 

812
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,160
system of laws and produced 
wine. 

813
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,320
He destroyed these Barbarians in
combat, you know. 

814
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,880
Yeah, yeah. 
Like they needed to go. 

815
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,200
Yeah, yeah. 
That's how they phrased that. 

816
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,520
So the Valerians took on. 
So it's interesting to think 

817
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,800
about how the Valerians took on 
the Ghascari, maybe through 

818
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,040
maybe they got them to draw 
first blood, but it's what they 

819
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,520
wanted. 
They wanted the showdown, 

820
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,440
potentially. 
And this is reminds. 

821
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,240
Me of the. 
The conquest Aegon the Conqueror

822
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,160
went for the big dog first. 
He went straight for hair in the

823
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,400
black in order to perhaps 
encourage slash intimidate the 

824
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,680
rest of Westeros into saying, 
well, he took out the biggest 

825
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,960
guy, we should surrender to him.
He's like look, look, or at 

826
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,160
least to intimidate them and it 
and it kind of worked. 

827
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,600
Not entire maybe not as well as 
it could have, but he didn't 

828
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,760
have to valerianize everyone. 
Several people did surrender. 

829
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,160
I mean the Lords of. 
Westeros are pretty stubborn and

830
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,760
prideful too, and they had been 
in charge for thousands of years

831
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,240
as well, at least in their 
corners of the of Westeros. 

832
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,160
But at least the kings. 
This is where I think there's a 

833
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,480
big difference to the kings of 
Westeros for the most part were 

834
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,240
at least willing to take on the 
risk themselves. 

835
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,400
They were willing to lead their 
armies and face the dangers 

836
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,760
themselves. 
Which, you know, I do respect 

837
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,000
that more than what I think the 
Ghiscari's did, which is mostly 

838
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,440
fight a long. 
Series of proxy wars, which is 

839
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,040
that's why I think they were so 
willing. 

840
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,480
To get into these wars is 
because they were fighting in 

841
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,400
territory in between them. 
Like Shay's going to pull up a 

842
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,960
map here. 
We've got the the region between

843
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,000
Slaver's Bay and the Ghascari, 
or sorry, the Valyrian Freehold,

844
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,880
and there's a lot of territory 
there, Mantaris, Borash, these 

845
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,560
kind of neutral zone, what would
have been a neutral zone perhaps

846
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,000
at some point in the past. 
I just want to say real quick 

847
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,320
that, you know, we describe it 
as like this neutral zone, but 

848
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,640
the fact is innocent people 
lived there and got killed. 

849
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,680
You know, like that's which is 
why you're saying that you have 

850
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,720
less respect for them to like 
just sacrifice all these people 

851
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:54,680
in some distant land you don't 
know anything about. 

852
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:57,800
Exactly. 
Going out there yourself, like 

853
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,640
I'd rather there's not be any 
war, but. 

854
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,880
It's like sports, they hear 
whether they're team won or lost

855
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,160
and then they and then they lose
money 'cause they had bet on 

856
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,280
their team. 
And by in this sense, betting on

857
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,560
the team means investing in the 
the invasion army or what have 

858
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,160
you. 
But they only lose money like 

859
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,840
from way far away in Old Geese, 
which is farther away than even 

860
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,880
Marine and and Astapore and 
Yungkai would have been from 

861
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,320
Valyria. 
They just to them, it's just 

862
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,200
these ultra rich people sending 
their citizen and slave soldiers

863
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,320
to war and losing and being 
like, Dang, well, let's try 

864
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,920
again. 
You know, like to them it is 

865
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,880
just a Dang like maybe they're 
maybe maybe a little more mad 

866
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,160
than that, but it is that's all 
it is. 

867
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,000
They're just mad they lost. 
So they don't suffer any real 

868
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,160
consequences. 
Their armies obviously suffer 

869
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,200
massive consequences. 
Back then, the Valyrians didn't 

870
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,960
have slave soldiers. 
Maybe that's part of why the 

871
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,800
Ghascari were more willing to 
start wars, because they're 

872
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,360
throwing their slave soldiers 
away, whereas the Valyrians are.

873
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,160
Yes, these they're not. 
Losing Dragons, but they are 

874
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,600
losing citizens, they are 
losing, you know, resources. 

875
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,360
So it's still something. 
You have to wonder like when did

876
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,480
the Dragons come into the into 
this and how often and how 

877
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,200
readily and in what number? 
Because if you. 

878
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,280
Feel like if they just had this 
concerted effort to send all. 

879
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,600
The Dragons against the 
Ghiscari. 

880
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,080
There wouldn't have been five 
wars. 

881
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,240
There would have been maybe just
the one. 

882
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,080
They were particular. 
Ghiscari were particularly 

883
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,400
outclassed in certain theatres 
of war. 

884
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:23,760
They fought over Sithorius, they
fought over the Basilisk Isles. 

885
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,040
That must have been 
particularly. 

886
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,720
Bad for the Ghiscari. 
Like how do you win? 

887
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,680
Naval verse naval when one side 
has Dragons like your ships are 

888
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,400
ships are the most vulnerable 
thing. 

889
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,880
They're way more vulnerable in 
armies. 

890
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,280
Armies can scatter hide in 
caves. 

891
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,160
There's nowhere to hide A ship 
even pretty much at anchor it 

892
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,320
can't hide like there's one or 
two exceptions like lanisport or

893
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,960
Castley rock has a protected 
harbor with inside the caves. 

894
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,600
There's I don't know of any 
other spot on all the. 

895
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,520
Planetos, where ships can hide 
from Dragons. 

896
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,240
Even that Castle Rock you might 
be able to hide a few ships from

897
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,080
a couple Dragons, but I. 
Don't know even about a whole 

898
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,600
fleet. 
Dragons hovering around. 

899
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,120
Yeah, yeah. 
It's it's, yeah, it's, it's 

900
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,080
hopeless, basically so. 
Why did they keep fighting? 

901
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,720
This is why I think they kept 
fighting. 1 The detachment from 

902
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,320
consequences is a big one. 
Another is pride. 

903
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,360
They just can't accept that 
they're no longer the biggest 

904
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:19,840
power in the world and they have
so much money. 

905
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,080
They've been on top for so long.
They they they, they don't want 

906
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,080
to be the one generation of 
Ghiscari that that fumble 5000 

907
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,640
years of being at the top. 
That's a that's a quite for 

908
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,640
people who are concerned with 
their legacy, that's a big, big 

909
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:38,560
deal and they but also. 
I don't think the the Valyrians 

910
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,640
ever fully concentrated all 
their firepower at the Gaskari 

911
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,200
because of their constant 
infight. 

912
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,320
They don't want anyone family to
gain any more powerful than 

913
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:48,160
another. 
They're obviously. 

914
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,800
They're like the crabs in a 
bucket pulling each other back 

915
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,280
down. 
No one can crawl out of the 

916
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,160
bucket. 
It's a weird analogy for ultra 

917
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,200
rich, hyper powerful people, but
it it works to serve that none 

918
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,040
of them want any others to be to
succeed. 

919
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,720
They all want to keep them at 
this level so that they can't 

920
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,400
dominate. 
Like I don't want this crab to 

921
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,680
be above me or he'll use his 
crab powers on me from above 

922
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,240
where he has leverage, you know,
let's all drag each other down. 

923
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,560
And it did finally end when they
did gang up and they did send a 

924
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,600
whole bunch of Dragons to old 
geese and to torch the entire 

925
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,880
city. 
And that was the end of it. 

926
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,840
So once they finally got their 
act together and said, hey, 

927
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,440
let's end this for good, they 
did it. 

928
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,800
But why did it take them five 
different wars to finally do 

929
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,040
that one? 
There's a couple reasons. 

930
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,680
One, they may have hoped on long
term conquest and didn't want to

931
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,760
destroy them. 
Two, but at most I think it was 

932
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,160
political willpower. 
They just didn't. 

933
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,240
The Valyrians weren't united on 
that goal. 

934
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,720
They didn't want one or two or 
three or four families to. 

935
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,280
Get all the credit and all the 
wealth, and so they easier to 

936
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,240
oppose it than to support it and
get the the short end of the 

937
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:54,760
stick from the spoils. 
There are pros and cons to 

938
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,600
having power split up. 
You know that that that is a 

939
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,040
pro. 
When you have a good king or 

940
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,520
queen, you know, a good central 
authority and they want to do a 

941
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,320
good thing, they can just do the
good thing and it just gets 

942
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,360
done. 
If they want to do a bad thing, 

943
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,120
they could just do the bad thing
and it gets done too. 

944
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,080
So if you split the authority up
between, you know, Congress and 

945
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,240
consecutive branch or forty 
families or whatever, then it's 

946
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,240
it's difficult if someone wants 
to do a bad thing to get it 

947
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:23,640
done. 
It's hard to get everyone on 

948
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,520
board to work together to do it.
But also, if you want to do a 

949
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,200
good thing, ostensibly 
destroying the Sakari is a good 

950
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,840
thing. 
It's hard to get everyone to 

951
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,280
agree. 
Eventually they did, but it took

952
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:33,800
a lot, right? 
It took multiple wars. 

953
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,560
Eventually it was like, OK, 
fine, I guess we have to. 

954
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,280
Let's just end this problem once
and for all. 

955
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,360
There's probably like a big push
for it. 

956
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,080
There may have been a push 
forward after the third war and 

957
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,120
then after the 4th and finally, 
like, see, it's just going to 

958
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,080
keep happening. 
Let's just end this once and for

959
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,000
all, which is how there's so 
many comparisons between the 

960
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,160
Roman, the, the Punic Wars 
between Roman, Carthage. 

961
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,000
That is eventually what happened
there. 

962
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,040
There was a a push within the 
Roman. 

963
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,520
Upper class to just wipe 
Carthage out. 

964
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,160
The Third Punic War was just an 
aggressive let's kill them. 

965
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,720
It didn't start over any real 
conflict. 

966
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:03,920
It was just they're powerful, 
they've regained their strength,

967
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,600
let's destroy them because we're
afraid of them, and also we'll 

968
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,760
get to loot their city and take 
everything. 

969
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,200
Yeah, yeah. 
I wonder if another factor IA 

970
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,400
couple of things. 
I wonder if if maybe the 

971
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Valerians, the Dragons weren't 
as numerous yet. 

972
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,760
Maybe their their power, the 
control of the Dragons was still

973
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,400
new enough. 
That might also explain why the 

974
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,800
Giscari thought they could beat 
them. 

975
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,120
Did they have really, you know? 
Yeah, or they were aware, aware 

976
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,760
of their political system and 
how it kept them hamstrung from 

977
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,120
like, uniting. 
And they're like, well, this 

978
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,320
will like we'll never have to 
face more than a few at a time 

979
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,280
because blah blah blah. 
But yeah, I like that theory. 

980
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,160
I wonder if another reason too 
is if maybe this is when the 

981
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,760
Valerians started, there's slave
trade and that's why Kaskari 

982
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,240
wanted to stop them. 
They're like, hey, that's our 

983
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:49,920
business they didn't have. 
Slaves. 

984
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,080
That's a good point. 
After this time before they did 

985
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,640
have slaves. 
I wonder if that's what was 

986
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,600
prompting this is that they? 
Were starting to. 

987
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,200
Get into that business and the 
Kaskari were like no, no, no. 

988
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,720
So bringing it back again to 
this Carthage in Rome example, 

989
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,720
when Carthage was on the verge 
of defeating the Romans in the 

990
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,080
Second Punic War under Hannibal,
Carthage stopped supporting. 

991
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,640
Him like the home, like their 
home city, the capital. 

992
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,520
Was like, oh. 
Because they were worried that 

993
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,320
he would use this grand, 
enormous victory to make his 

994
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,840
family king to to dominate all 
the Carthaginians. 

995
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,200
So it would be like one. 
It would be like one dragon 

996
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,160
rider family was about to defeat
the Ghascari by themselves. 

997
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,560
And the other words were like 
no, we can't let this happen. 

998
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,440
And they ganged up to stop that 
from happening. 

999
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,320
And that's why there was a third
and 4th and 5th war potentially 

1000
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,200
because. 
He still almost did it. 

1001
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,600
He did, still almost. 
Yes, he did. 

1002
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,960
Yeah, you're right. 
And it lasted a long time. 

1003
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,080
It was a very, it was like a 
multi decade war. 

1004
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,080
Also, Carthage didn't have a 
king and neither did this 

1005
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,320
Gaskari. 
So these these. 

1006
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,640
Things are all like somewhat 
fitting, but you'll see like you

1007
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,240
think about Rome. 
Rome also kind of freaked out 

1008
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:55,040
and did some crazy things 
whenever they were afraid of 

1009
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,640
someone naming themselves king 
or dictator for life in the case

1010
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,360
of Julius Caesar. 
And they were probably usually 

1011
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,080
right about those people's 
intents. 

1012
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,240
Like Julius Caesar, they were 
right about that. 

1013
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,240
So perhaps the 40 families, the 
individual family should less be

1014
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:13,200
thought of. 
As you know, elite families. 

1015
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,080
I mean, that's true, but maybe 
it's good to think of them as 

1016
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,360
like individual nuclear states 
or pirate kings or organized 

1017
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,600
crime cartels, something, some 
version of that. 

1018
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:23,960
It has elements of all those 
things. 

1019
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,080
They definitely have the nuclear
power, like a nuclear state. 

1020
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,160
They have the grand wealth and 
kind of agreement not to fight 

1021
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,720
each other, sort of like pirate 
kings and and organized crime. 

1022
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,680
But they rarely work together. 
And when they but but when they 

1023
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:36,960
do. 
It's really bad for whoever 

1024
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,520
their foe is 'cause they're 
awfully effective in those short

1025
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,200
windows when they do work 
together. 

1026
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,360
But underneath all this is a 
reluctance to use Dragons. 

1027
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,880
They were reluctant to use them 
not just against each other, but

1028
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,080
against military targets. 
As well, because they don't want

1029
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,720
to risk them, they don't want 
any chance of your dragon dying.

1030
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:53,360
Is it's. 
It's a. 

1031
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,640
Huge loss. 
You you lose that permanent 

1032
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,560
intimidation, that permanent 
status, that permanent elite 

1033
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,240
level within society. 
Yeah, it's probably not easy to 

1034
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,760
get a new dragon, even even 
within a dragon rider family, 

1035
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,480
especially if you have a 
particularly big dragon or 

1036
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,440
something like that. 
Yeah, and imagine how much 

1037
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,280
you've invested in the dragon 
over time, too. 

1038
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,120
Oh God, yeah. 
Fricking food, a lot of training

1039
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,880
and and maybe even there's AI 
don't know what to say. 

1040
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,560
Like a bond, like a pet, like 
you really care about your dog, 

1041
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:21,320
your cat. 
Sure. 

1042
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,280
Probably has a a personality, a 
character that you care about, 

1043
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,320
you know? 
Absolutely. 

1044
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:27,760
So they, for the most part, they
want. 

1045
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,920
Conquest, not destruction. 
But of course, in the case of 

1046
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,640
old, the Giscari capital, 
they're like, well, let's 

1047
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,640
destroy it. 
There and there are other. 

1048
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,200
Exceptions. 
Let's talk about the Roin. 

1049
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,880
This is one of the juicier parts
of all the history is one with 

1050
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,520
some parallels we've never 
explored before. 

1051
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,080
We have of course, explored it 
in other ways. 

1052
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,880
Our episode Mother Royne 
focusing more on the Royneish 

1053
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,640
side is is one we made quite a 
while ago and it's still very 

1054
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,280
relevant. 
The wars with the Royne were 

1055
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,600
characterized by an early lack 
of interest by either side in 

1056
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,840
the large scale war. 
These were like the little city 

1057
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,960
state affairs where Dragons 
weren't even involved. 

1058
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,120
The Royne now were powerful and 
older than in some ways than the

1059
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,200
Ghiscari. 
Not older, but maybe even maybe 

1060
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,680
they were older, but not on an 
empire, not an imperial level. 

1061
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,280
They didn't have an empire. 
They were not as foolish as the 

1062
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,760
Ghiscari to pick fights with the
Roy, the the Valyrians. 

1063
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,720
At least not right away, or at 
least especially not five 

1064
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,120
fights, 5 wars. 
But they did actually eventually

1065
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,800
do that. 
It took a little more. 

1066
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,720
Maybe it was something like what
the? 

1067
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,520
Ghiscari decided to go to war 
over, but yeah, it was. 

1068
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:33,280
The Roinar that they were, they 
were like, hey, go ahead, yeah, 

1069
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,640
go ahead and settle along the 
Roin like we do have some 

1070
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,720
cities. 
Just coexist with us. 

1071
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:39,240
Eventually that didn't go so 
well. 

1072
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,560
It worked well for a while and 
the Valyrians started Like 

1073
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,880
religious problems happened. 
The Valyrians would kill some 

1074
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,520
turtles and the Roynar worship 
those turtles and there's 

1075
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,400
probably other issues. 
But they started to regret that 

1076
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,040
their parents and grandparents 
had allowed the Valyrians to 

1077
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,880
settle there. 
I think this is another 

1078
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,480
forgotten lesson. 
I think their parents and 

1079
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,120
grandparents realized that this 
is the best deal they can get. 

1080
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,400
Yes, they're going to be 
annoying, even violent 

1081
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,160
neighbors, but it's better than 
them turning their Dragons. 

1082
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,720
Against us it was the lesser of 
two evils, but. 

1083
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,080
Those grandparents and parents 
didn't have to do live 

1084
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,200
day-to-day alongside their 
learnings. 

1085
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,640
It wasn't exactly their they 
weren't faced with the same 

1086
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,360
consequences so. 
They might not have known how 

1087
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:20,960
close the two evils were to 
each. 

1088
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,920
Other, yes, yeah, like and 
especially if there's like. 

1089
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,480
Maybe there's some slaving? 
Here and there and the Reiner 

1090
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:31,040
don't like that. 
A lot of just cultural friction,

1091
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,720
we'll say, if not worse and. 
Maybe because the Valyrians were

1092
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:40,320
so reticent to use their Dragons
along the Roin, the Roinar got 

1093
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,360
comp a little complacent with 
that. 

1094
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,640
Maybe that same thing happened 
with the Gazar. 

1095
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:45,960
Like, well, they hardly ever use
those Dragons. 

1096
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,800
Maybe they don't even have as 
many as they say they do. 

1097
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,600
Maybe they don't have the 
control over them as they claim.

1098
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,360
Maybe it is all just 
intimidation. 

1099
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,680
Turns out, no. 
They can Marshall a lot of 

1100
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,040
Dragons at once and do an 
enormous amount of damage, but 

1101
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,360
until you see that happen, you 
don't know it's possible. 

1102
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,560
Maybe even the Valyrians aren't 
sure that they can organize 

1103
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,240
that. 
Level of effort or that level of

1104
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,640
unity. 
So Valyri didn't just come 

1105
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,280
Dragons blazing right away. 
They weren't like, let's send a 

1106
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,160
huge invasioner in. 
Fact, it looks like they hardly.

1107
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,640
Ever did that? 
It looked like it was it. 

1108
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,440
It looks like it was one or two 
or three of the families going 

1109
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,200
on an endeavor to conquer some 
territory and using that wealth 

1110
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,320
to support their internal 
struggles within the capital. 

1111
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:29,760
Like the point of of conquest 
outside of Illyria was to fuel 

1112
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,640
the internal struggles that 
still managed to keep. 

1113
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,880
Dragons out of it, right? 
So when the wars did start along

1114
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,200
the Roin it again, it was the 
Roiner that started them. 

1115
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,760
They had had enough, I guess, 
and it was more than five wars. 

1116
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,160
So the the forbearance of their 
earlier generations to make them

1117
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,680
look not as dumb as the 
Ghiscari, well that fell off. 

1118
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,440
Eventually and they. 
For whatever reason, they 

1119
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,960
thought they could win, or they 
just had to, I don't know. 

1120
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,680
But even after numerous 
conflicts, the Dragons were 

1121
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,560
still not a big part of it. 
It's really interesting. 

1122
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,760
Here's a quote. 
This series of conflicts reached

1123
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:12,320
a bloody climax 1000 years ago 
in the Second Spice War, when 3 

1124
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,640
Valyrian Dragon Lords joined 
with their kin and cousins in 

1125
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:22,400
Volantis to overwhelm, sack, and
destroy SAR Hoy, the great 

1126
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,400
Roynar port city upon the Summer
Sea. 

1127
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,400
The warriors of SAR Hoy were 
slaughtered savagely, their 

1128
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,880
children carried off into 
slavery, and their proud pink 

1129
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:40,480
city put to the torch. 
Afterward, the volunteers sowed 

1130
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,480
the smoking ruins with salt so 
that SAR Hoy might never rise 

1131
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,560
again. 
SO3 Dragon Lords accomplished 

1132
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:49,760
this. 
Remember there were two port 

1133
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,040
cities at the end of the Rhine, 
one on the West Bank that was 

1134
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,520
Sarhoi. 
And then the east bank is 

1135
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,480
Volantis. 
And of course Sarhoi had been 

1136
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,640
there longer. 
But the two cities developed a 

1137
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,600
rivalry and eventually this was 
the the great end of it. 

1138
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,800
So a series of bloody climaxes, 
a series of bloody conflicts 

1139
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,640
that ended in this. 
And even at the climax, there 

1140
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,960
were only three Dragon Lords 
involved. 

1141
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,600
All these hundreds of years of 
war, of back and forth 

1142
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,080
conflicts, lots of different 
events, lots of different 

1143
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,720
battles. 
But the Dragons were pretty much

1144
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:24,880
not involved until this climax, 
and it was still only three. 

1145
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,480
So you can see why like a lot of
these conflicts were just 

1146
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,640
continued on a rather normal 
conventional military level and 

1147
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,160
was like, yeah, well, and that 
might be why the. 

1148
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,920
Lot of the again, might be a lot
of the Royner got just got to 

1149
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,880
thinking that's how it would be 
like, yeah, the Dragons just 

1150
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,360
aren't a part of this for some 
reason. 

1151
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,800
The dragon Lords, they got their
own things to worry about. 

1152
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,080
This is the volunteers. 
They're descendants of the 

1153
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,720
Valyrians. 
They're Valyrian by ethnicity, 

1154
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,240
but none of them are dragon 
Lords. 

1155
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:51,960
They don't have that kind of 
power. 

1156
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,240
They're not coming for us with 
that. 

1157
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:59,240
So it's very different. 
But this wasn't just an ending. 

1158
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,920
The destruction of the city put 
the other cities on notice. 

1159
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,280
They're like, oh, what's to stop
them from destroying US one by 

1160
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,920
one? 
It's that same whole we have to 

1161
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,400
band together at the same as the
lands, Rod and Dune, same as the

1162
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,400
great houses against Aries, same
as any countless other examples 

1163
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,880
like this where if we don't band
together, they're going to 

1164
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,400
destroy us one and one. 
They're going to divide and 

1165
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:22,560
conquer. 
Was that? 

1166
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,520
True, we don't know, but it was 
certainly the perception. 

1167
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,960
And the greatest leader of the 
Rauner at the time, Garen the 

1168
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,760
Great, got them all on board 
with this idea, this attitude. 

1169
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,440
Three, they had Sorcerer 
Princess too. 

1170
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,320
The, the, the Roinar had magic. 
So it's not quite the same that 

1171
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Gaskari didn't. 
So in some levels, maybe they're

1172
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,160
not being as foolish. 
Maybe they did have a chance. 

1173
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,960
Maybe I I don't know, they 
didn't win, but maybe it wasn't 

1174
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:53,680
as as all foolish as it seemed. 
Did the Roinar have a king? 

1175
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,440
Did they have a a capital city? 
You know, 'cause that's another 

1176
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,160
thing I, I was thinking about 
that there's sort of a, there's 

1177
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,200
plenty, I'm sure. 
But one parallel thing about 

1178
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,040
like Russia was at war with 
Afghanistan for tennis years, 

1179
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:08,680
never knew used any nuclear 
weapons. 

1180
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,200
And maybe partly because what 
good would have it done? 

1181
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,200
They blow up one village in 
Afghanistan with a nuclear 

1182
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,120
weapon there. 
Aren't central targets, yeah. 

1183
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,160
Yeah, exactly. 
The it's, it's, it's so that 

1184
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,080
that's got to be one factor. 
This is a little bit of a 

1185
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,720
tangible. 
I wonder if another factor is 

1186
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:29,320
like just the dragon Lords don't
want to be mass murderers. 

1187
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,480
Maybe they just know that when 
they go on with the dragon 

1188
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,360
burning people alive, like they 
have to live with that 

1189
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,400
themselves, Like, and you know, 
it's got to be a factor for 

1190
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,720
someone launching a nuclear 
weapon too, you know, so. 

1191
00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:40,080
Certainly. 
And we don't hear about Dragons 

1192
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,920
dying during the Ghiscari wars. 
Maybe they did. 

1193
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,760
Maybe there were a few lucky 
shots, which might be part of 

1194
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,360
what the Ghiscari looked at 
said. 

1195
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,280
Hey, look, we can kill a dragon 
here and there. 

1196
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,240
Let's let's keep going. 
So yes, this is something of 

1197
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:56,320
like what happened with Garen 
the Great and his army. 

1198
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,680
It's going to be familiar it it 
began with something that will 

1199
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,120
remind you all of the Field of 
Fire quote. 

1200
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,360
The largest army that Essos had 
ever seen soon assembled at 

1201
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,400
Croyne under the command of 
Prince Garen. 

1202
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,720
According to Beldocar, it was a 
quarter of a million strong. 

1203
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,160
From the headwaters of the Roy 
and down to her many mouths, 

1204
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,680
every man of fighting age took 
up sword and shield and made his

1205
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,880
way to the Festival City to join
this great campaign. 

1206
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:34,040
So long as the army remained 
beside Mother Royne, the Prince 

1207
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,280
declared, they need not fear the
Dragons of Valyria. 

1208
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:41,160
Their own Water Wizards would 
protect them against the fires 

1209
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,560
of the Freehold. 
It was sort of true there, and 

1210
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,280
they weren't fools to believe it
might be true it but they had 

1211
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,440
never put it to the test against
a large number of Dragons. 

1212
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,240
They. 
Had put it against the test 

1213
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,920
against a small number of 
Dragons and it worked pretty 

1214
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,240
well, so yeah. 
It it's there's reasons to think

1215
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,840
they had some advantages that 
the Valyrians might have 

1216
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,680
actually feared. 
Again, individual dragon rider. 

1217
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,760
Like if they were like drones 
soldiers, they could, they could

1218
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,920
they would take some losses. 
These are individual elite 

1219
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,480
members of top families. 
They all really value their 

1220
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:17,880
lives. 
They aren't doing this for some 

1221
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:22,000
cause, they're doing it for 
personal gain or to maintain 

1222
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,600
their status. 
It's not the same as when Aegon 

1223
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:31,280
invaded Westeros where you have 
a lot of kings that have pride 

1224
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,440
in their dynasties. 
It's a similar, it's it's, it's 

1225
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,920
dissimilar for a lot of reasons,
but very much unlike the army at

1226
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,480
the field of fire which formed 
for one battle and then lost, 

1227
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,120
this largest army of Essos did 
quite a lot. 

1228
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,320
It destroyed many lesser cities.
Towns and villa. 

1229
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,640
It overwhelmed Valasar and 
Salhoris, large cities but no 

1230
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,640
Dragons were involved in those 
battles. 

1231
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,640
However, the next battle did 
quote. 

1232
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,040
This is interesting. 
At voluntaries, Garin found 

1233
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:08,120
himself facing 100,000 foes, 100
war elephants, and three Dragon 

1234
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,440
Lords. 
Here too, he prevailed, though 

1235
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,520
at great cost. 
Thousands burned, but thousands 

1236
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,880
more sheltered in the shallows 
of the river. 

1237
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,880
Whilst there Wizards raised 
enormous water spouts against 

1238
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,360
the foes Dragons. 
Roinish Archers brought down two

1239
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,360
of the Dragons whilst the third 
fled wounded. 

1240
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,640
Very interesting. 
So these techniques, it shows 

1241
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,800
techniques that aren't available
to any other nation that we're, 

1242
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,760
we're aware of the water spouts.
That's that's really neat and I 

1243
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,680
hope we get to see that on 
screen one day in the far-flung 

1244
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,240
future 'cause that sounds really
cool. 

1245
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,880
So that's that sounds more. 
Defensive and definitive than 

1246
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,600
anything like putting out fires 
and stopping the flames before 

1247
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,080
they get going. 
I'm not sure that it would kill 

1248
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:53,840
a dragon. 
Maybe it would. 

1249
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,080
Maybe it would knock one out of 
the sky and the concussion. 

1250
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,360
Or knock its rider off It might.
Knock the rider off? 

1251
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,440
Yeah. 
If a rider falls off, they would

1252
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,200
drown. 
Now riders are apparently 

1253
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,000
attached to their saddles with 
chains, so they might not be 

1254
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:06,680
able to knock one from the 
saddle so easily. 

1255
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,240
So you might not know that just 
seeing Daenerys fly without a 

1256
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:10,120
saddle. 
But yeah. 

1257
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:11,600
But no, we've seen other 
Dragons. 

1258
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,960
Yeah, saddles are. 
That's more of a wartime thing, 

1259
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,800
I think. 
If you're just flying around on 

1260
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,280
your own without any danger, you
may not bother with chains. 

1261
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,200
I wonder if we'll see that in 
House of Dragon this year now. 

1262
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:22,880
But The Archers taking you on 
Dragons? 

1263
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,600
Is very interesting, very 
interesting. 

1264
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,760
Like that doesn't seem possible 
in Westeros. 

1265
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,080
Like they've tried so many 
times. 

1266
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,200
Like do they have special bows, 
special arrows? 

1267
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:33,680
Maybe. 
Maybe. 

1268
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:35,760
It's not stated what wounded the
third. 

1269
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,680
Dragon. 
It may have been more arrows, 

1270
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,240
but maybe it was the water 
spouts or some other some other 

1271
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,360
beans. 
Might just be sheer numbers. 

1272
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,920
Yeah, two. 150,000 people in the
army right? 

1273
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,560
And the army might have been as 
simple knowing it was going to 

1274
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,560
face Dragons. 
Can you imagine 50,000 Archers? 

1275
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:53,960
Right. 
Yeah, right. 

1276
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,160
Which they would be prepared, 
maybe because they know what 

1277
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,600
they're facing. 
And consider also when you have 

1278
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,800
those huge numbers, the 
likelihood of having a prodigy 

1279
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,960
increases too, right? 
Like the you. 

1280
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,160
Know some hang guy, the Archer 
or some Yeah. 

1281
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,760
Yeah, like I'm, I'm imagining, 
like, you know, the 50,000 at 

1282
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,840
the field of fire, there might 
have only been 5000 Archers 

1283
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,920
among them. 
Five of them might have been 

1284
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,240
outstanding Archers. 
But even the outstanding Archer 

1285
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,960
has to be in the right spot at 
the right moment. 

1286
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,280
But a 250,000 army that might 
have had a higher ratio of 

1287
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,760
Archers, they they might have 
had as many Archers as all the 

1288
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,760
soldiers in the field of fire, 
It's true. 

1289
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,920
And if only, if only one in a 
hundred of them is a an 

1290
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:38,040
outstanding prodigy, then you 
might have had 5000 master 

1291
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,880
Archers with the support of 
these waterspouts and all this 

1292
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:43,560
other stuff. 
Yeah, who knows, Like what we, 

1293
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,680
we, we talked about several 
small Dragons going against a 

1294
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,120
big one and how they might have 
tactics for that. 

1295
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,960
They might have had tactics. 
For this, like use the water 

1296
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,480
Wizards in concert with the 
arrows and some method to slow 

1297
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,000
the dragon down in order to get 
a bunch of good shots at it. 

1298
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,920
You know, something like that. 
Or like, shoot the waterspout 

1299
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,240
that The Archers know the 
Dragon's going to move a certain

1300
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,840
direction to avoid that, and 
then shoot preemptively. 

1301
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,080
Shoot the arrows at that spot. 
It's a good idea. 1000 arrows 

1302
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,480
coming all at once. 
Our imaginations can probably 

1303
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,240
come up with a lot of fun 
examples that might be pretty 

1304
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:16,200
close to the truth. 
Here. 

1305
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,240
It's easy to see how there's a 
lot of possibilities. 

1306
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,400
But it isn't it interesting and 
telling that all this happened? 

1307
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,760
You get this massive army, 
apparently the largest Armory 

1308
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,560
ever seen in Essos and the 
Valyrians for the most part. 

1309
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,320
Didn't do anything like the they
the, the freehold, like the 

1310
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,040
dragon riders. 
I mean, like the dragon 40 

1311
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,040
families, like 3 dragon riders 
were there. 

1312
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,840
That's it. 
Out of all that, like we got 40 

1313
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,160
dragon rider families and 
there's only. 

1314
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,120
Three Dragon Lords there out of 
like, that's just a couple, 

1315
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,440
three members of maybe just one 
family. 

1316
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,520
Maybe there were three guys, one
from each family, but I, I'm 

1317
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,800
guessing that might have been 
one family with ties to 

1318
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:49,800
Volantis, to the elite and 
Volantis, They had interests 

1319
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,360
there that they were trying to 
protect all this time. 

1320
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,000
The other dragon Lords weren't 
interested. 

1321
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,720
But for some reason, like, look,
the Dragons were beaten. 

1322
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,240
That's bad for everyone. 
Our the spell of the Dragons 

1323
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:02,920
can't be defeated has been 
broken. 

1324
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,040
Now the world knows that Dragons
can be beaten when they know who

1325
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:08,680
did it. 
We got to answer that. 

1326
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:13,440
We got to prove decisively. 
That they just got lucky that we

1327
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,560
come strong and we'll show them 
that it won't be close. 

1328
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:22,360
So something got them going. 
The loss, the loss of. 

1329
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,040
Status. 
The idea that maybe Dragons 

1330
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:25,280
weren't going to be feared as 
much. 

1331
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:31,120
Something got them going and 
this made them act that if the 

1332
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:35,400
Roinar were winning. 
The reputation that they rested 

1333
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,560
on their laurels of hey, no 
one's going to fight us because 

1334
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,480
we can't be beaten. 
That isn't true anymore. 

1335
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,920
Well, they they're going to have
to prove that hey, actually, 

1336
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,760
this was just a one off. 
We're going to go crush them. 

1337
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,120
And here's how they did that 
quote. 

1338
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:53,680
The volunteers retreated back 
behind their black walls and 

1339
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,800
appealed to the Freehold for 
help. 

1340
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:01,000
And the Dragons came, not three 
as Prince Garen had faced at 

1341
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:06,920
volunteers, but 300 or more if 
tales that have come down to us 

1342
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,920
can be believed. 
Against their fires the Roynar 

1343
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,880
could not stand. 10s of 
thousands burned, whilst others 

1344
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,640
rushed into the river, hoping 
that the embrace of Mother Royn 

1345
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,480
would offer them protection 
against dragon flame, only to 

1346
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:28,520
drown in their mother's embrace.
Some chroniclers insist that the

1347
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:33,520
fires burned so hot that the 
very waters of the river boiled 

1348
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,440
and turned to steam. 
That's not that hard to believe 

1349
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,400
with 300 Dragons burning the 
water. 

1350
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:39,560
You know, that's a lot of 
Dragons. 

1351
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,320
That's a lot of heat. 
And dragon fire is so intense. 

1352
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,720
Maybe just a little bit like the
river's awfully large, like 

1353
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,120
we're talking about the whole 
thing boiling. 

1354
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,440
It's you can't even see the 
other shore from one side. 

1355
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,440
But still I can see that 
happening in in on the the 

1356
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,360
shallows or what have you. 
Also that that idea you can't 

1357
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:56,800
see the shore from one side to 
the other. 

1358
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,520
The whole river isn't like that.
Just. 

1359
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,320
Sections of the. 
Yeah, we don't know exactly 

1360
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,040
where this battle was. 
And if the Dragons did 

1361
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,600
concentrate their fire, you 
know, up river, wherever the 

1362
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,560
Anyway, yeah, I could see that 
being like, just terribly, 

1363
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,440
painfully tragic. 
So they, they're never, they 

1364
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,120
weren't united to make this 
conquest. 

1365
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,320
They were united when something 
went wrong, right? 

1366
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,920
They didn't 300 Dragons didn't 
come to subjugate the Roiner. 

1367
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:24,360
300 Dragons came because. 
There had been a loss 'cause 

1368
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,520
they lot like the the the 
supremacy of draconic authority 

1369
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:32,240
was being challenged. 
That's how I interpret this. 

1370
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,840
I don't think these like. 
It's kind of. 

1371
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,600
Irrelevant to the whether they 
had been provoked, like who 

1372
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,920
started it doesn't matter. 
You know, it's all about we have

1373
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,840
to be seen as the dominant 
people in the world and if any, 

1374
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,040
ever, ever a challenge to that, 
we have to answer it as a group.

1375
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,240
It's the one time they show 
unity that we've seen here is 

1376
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,400
when. 
That supremacy is challenged. 

1377
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,560
It isn't because there's gain to
be had. 

1378
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,280
Like there was that. 
That was clear prior to this, 

1379
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,000
you know. 
But you could also see why they 

1380
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,400
didn't want to get involved too.
You got guys getting shot down 

1381
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,280
by arrows like, well, I don't 
want to go near round. 

1382
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,200
Now that's not a risk they want 
to take, but if 300 Dragons come

1383
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,360
at once, it's pretty hard They 
they have the. 

1384
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,240
The safety in numbers arguments 
like, well, they can't 

1385
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,720
concentrate their fire on one 
out of all three hundred of 

1386
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,280
these. 
Like that's also enough to make 

1387
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,920
people run. 
You're like you see that coming.

1388
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,720
You don't stand your ground. 
You're like 300 Dragons, like 

1389
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:26,840
you might not be able to count 
that high but you would be just 

1390
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,800
the sky would be black with. 
Dragons and you. 

1391
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:29,840
That's terrifying. 
You. 

1392
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:32,520
You might not have thought that.
Was possible have to get before 

1393
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,480
you decided it didn't matter if 
it's 247 or 292. 

1394
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,960
Picture that like all these wars
have gone on for a while, months

1395
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,040
if not years, and there's just 
never thing like this ever 

1396
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:43,760
happened. 
Is all of a sudden 300 Dragons 

1397
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:45,800
like they had never seen more 
than like 3 at a time. 

1398
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,600
This, this must have seemed 
impossible. 

1399
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,800
It was like, wow, they really 
are capable of a lot more than 

1400
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,520
we thought. 
That's what I was saying. 

1401
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,360
Like if they had known that this
was possible, they might have 

1402
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:55,800
surrendered long ago. 
They might not. 

1403
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,080
They might, they might have 
still fought. 

1404
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:58,800
People are stupid. 
People are stubborn, people are 

1405
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:00,160
proud. 
They might have brought more 

1406
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:01,720
water Wizards. 
They didn't know what they were 

1407
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,080
truly faced against. 
Yeah, that's right. 

1408
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,040
I was thinking about that, by 
the way, 300, That's like seven 

1409
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:12,040
or eight Dragons per house. 
I wonder, I wonder how many of 

1410
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,840
them might have been smaller 
Dragons just to beef the numbers

1411
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:16,480
up. 
I wonder how many were truly 

1412
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,400
trained or. 
It's a great question. 

1413
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,040
You wonder you don't see the 
smaller Dragons being deployed 

1414
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,520
for the same reason they're more
vulnerable. 

1415
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,960
Like why risk it? 
It's one thing to risk a huge 

1416
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,040
dragon. 
It's a small dragon that's just 

1417
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,400
hold off a little longer and 
it's a then it is a huge dragon 

1418
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,760
and then it's not as risky it. 
Really feels like you could have

1419
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,960
gotten your point across with 50
Dragons. 

1420
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,080
With 30 Dragons, like you could 
do three times, you know, 10 

1421
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,480
times more and I think you 
wouldn't have risked all of your

1422
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:41,960
small dragon. 
Which is why. 

1423
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,200
I think it's very telling. 
Like I think it's political. 

1424
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:49,120
They really wanted to show the 
world what happens, Like this is

1425
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,240
what we're capable of. 
Like it's, it's, it's very 

1426
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,080
demonstrative, you know? 
Yeah, I wonder, I wonder how 

1427
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,200
many. 
Even if the numbers exaggerated 

1428
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:59,320
a little and it was only 200, 
that's still 5 Dragons per 

1429
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,360
house, right? 
Yeah, and how many Dragons does 

1430
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,200
each else have? 
Like I wonder if that might have

1431
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,120
been 95% of all the Dragons you 
know? 

1432
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,920
It might have been, it might 
have been a really huge number. 

1433
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:10,880
You wonder, like it was like a 
draft, almost like a dragon 

1434
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:12,680
draft, like, Oh yeah, 
everybody's got to go unless 

1435
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,480
your, unless your dragon is 
under five years old or your 

1436
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,640
rider is still a teenager. 
Like everyone goes if you're 

1437
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,520
under 16, you can stay, but 
that's it. 

1438
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,080
Everyone else has to go. 
Like a basically a draft for for

1439
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,479
the elite only, which is kind of
a strange thing like only the 

1440
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,640
elite are drafted because. 
No one else has the Dragons, so.

1441
01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:32,040
Another interesting dynamic. 
We've talked about this idea a 

1442
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,520
little bit before too. 
Those 300 Dragons can, they can 

1443
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,080
all show up and burn stuff down 
and kill that army, but then 

1444
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:39,760
they can't like take over a 
city. 

1445
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,800
They couldn't take Over The 
Rhine, you know the the the 

1446
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,200
Dragons can't like. 
Land control the. 

1447
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:48,960
City and collect taxes or farm 
the you know, they had they they

1448
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,279
fly back home and eat more sheep
or whatever. 

1449
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:56,600
So it it shows that that the 
potential that the Valerians had

1450
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,439
to go destroy something, but 
that's still different from 

1451
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,840
going to conquer something. 
Yeah, and you're right. 

1452
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,760
Like that's the thing. 
Remember again, I'll have to use

1453
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,800
Dune as an example. 
The the, the ability to destroy 

1454
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,760
something is, is controlling it.
That's what they relied on. 

1455
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,359
That's why I say they're a lot 
like mafia, because it's not. 

1456
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:14,000
They don't control everything, 
but they can get what they want 

1457
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,720
by threatening to destroy it, 
which they are very which you 

1458
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,120
know they're capable of. 
Or or at least destroying part 

1459
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,399
of it or killing you, the person
standing in their way. 

1460
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,000
Same with the Dragon Lords. 
They didn't care about the 

1461
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,479
Roinar, but when they did. 
They destroyed it. 

1462
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,240
They they were absolute with it.
They're like, you couldn't get 

1463
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:31,760
them interested. 
They didn't care. 

1464
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,840
But once they but when they 
finally did care, Oh my gosh, it

1465
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,160
was, it was terrifying and 
destructive and the whole world 

1466
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:38,960
saw it, which is what they 
wanted. 

1467
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,359
They wanted the whole world to 
know and remember and leave and 

1468
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:44,439
you know and bow down to them. 
When? 

1469
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:50,319
When the time came, let's have a
quick break and then we come 

1470
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:53,160
back. 
We have another example of a 

1471
01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:55,880
huge number of Dragons all at 
once, the only other example we 

1472
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,280
have, and then we'll move on to 
Westeros in more modern times. 

1473
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,840
Well my friends, we are once 
again getting close to House of 

1474
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:06,880
Dragons season. 
As I've said, it's a good time 

1475
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:12,960
to ratchet up your interest in 
this world and hopefully that 

1476
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:17,240
involves supporting some of the 
creators in this space like 

1477
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:21,800
potentially us. 
We usually, we rarely have 

1478
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,080
sponsor. 
We occasionally have a sponsor 

1479
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:25,680
here and there. 
It's, you know, maybe a couple 

1480
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,240
times a year. 
We're we're right on that. 

1481
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:31,880
Cusp as a show where we 
sometimes are barely able to get

1482
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:34,720
the attention of sponsors, but 
sometimes not quite. 

1483
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:37,640
So we do rely on you all more 
than anything. 

1484
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:42,080
The biggest part of our income 
comes from crowdsourcing, from 

1485
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,560
Patreon mostly. 
So if you want to join that 

1486
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,120
group, if you listen to us 
regularly, if you think we're 

1487
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,960
doing enough to warrant. 
That then head on over to 

1488
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,600
historyofwesteros.com rather, 
well, you can actually. 

1489
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:55,600
Yeah, you can do that. 
History of westeros.com has the 

1490
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,000
link to Patreon, but you can go 
directly there by going to 

1491
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,360
patreon.com/history of Westeros.
And yeah, our website has a lot 

1492
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,280
of other ways to support us 
besides Patreon. 

1493
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,040
You can peruse our links. 
A lot of those have affiliate 

1494
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,320
kickbacks to us. 
You can buy our shirts. 

1495
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,960
We have a great new House of the
Dragon shirt or Dance of the 

1496
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,160
Dragon shirt that a shed design 
that we have a a new ad coming 

1497
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,840
for soon. 
You get to see a a great picture

1498
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,280
of it and all that. 
It's a design like a tour shirt.

1499
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:25,560
Ashaya did a great job of that. 
So there's a lot of ways to 

1500
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:27,640
support us. 
And also I do stream some 

1501
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:32,280
Fridays, most Fridays, a game in
the set in the world of 

1502
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:33,840
Westeros. 
We're currently playing House 

1503
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,320
Tarly. 
We have a Lady Tarly right now, 

1504
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,040
the Lord, but we have a, a 
capable, very dangerous woman in

1505
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,640
charge right now. 
She's she's not to be trifled 

1506
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,160
with. 
She's very willing to murder and

1507
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,320
speak her mind and that's a lot 
of fun to play. 

1508
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:54,280
So check that out Fridays at six
if you are so inclined. 

1509
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:56,200
It's a lot of fun hanging out 
with fellow historians. 

1510
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:01,160
Let's talk about the Andalls. 
Andalls are a little interesting

1511
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:06,040
because they were distinctly the
third big culture that the 

1512
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,600
Dragon Lords took on or that the
Valyrians took on. 

1513
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,360
And I say that it is important 
to distinguish that because a 

1514
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,320
lot of times it was just the 
nation of Valyria with the 

1515
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,080
Dragon Lords not directly 
involved or just their agents 

1516
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,200
being involved because again, 
reluctance to use Dragons 

1517
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,440
because. 
Losing the dragon means losing 

1518
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:26,200
your power and authority. 
So these conflicts were after 

1519
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,600
the Roinar and Gaskari wars 
because, well, the end alls were

1520
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:33,400
between. 
We're on the other side of the. 

1521
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,800
Roinar, they were West of it and
so the Roin were like a butt, 

1522
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,360
was like a buffer stayed in 
between. 

1523
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,240
But they were much lower tech 
state so they were in big 

1524
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,440
trouble when the Roinar fell. 
They didn't have sorcery or this

1525
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:48,880
vast wealth and large empire, 
the Gaskari and those didn't 

1526
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,760
work anyway. 
Both those nations lost. 

1527
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,800
So the end alls were in big 
trouble because all they had was

1528
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:57,520
their faith of the seven, which 
is potent, you know, as a 

1529
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,600
religion. 
There are a lot of very strong 

1530
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,120
lot of very strong belief in 
that. 

1531
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,320
But it's as far as we know it 
was non supernatural. 

1532
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,960
So they didn't really have any 
sort of edge there or anything 

1533
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:07,320
to. 
Nothing to stand against 

1534
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:09,600
Dragons, really. 
I think faith in the Dragons 

1535
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,000
outweighs faith in the seven, 
I'm going to say. 

1536
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,640
Yeah, it seems. 
Like one is definitely real, the

1537
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,760
other, yeah, I don't know. 
Was there ever any conflict or 

1538
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,440
tension that we know of between 
the Andals and the Roinar? 

1539
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:25,120
Not of of not of substance. 
I think they lived in peace for 

1540
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,040
the most part, the Roinar. 
The thing is the roinar stuck to

1541
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:29,520
the river. 
They didn't expand. 

1542
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,640
So that enabled them to live in 
peace with a lot of people, and 

1543
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,680
they became powerful and, and 
rich and and civilized. 

1544
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,040
People didn't really want to 
mess with them. 

1545
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,760
You know, it's like, yeah. 
They're they're powerful, 

1546
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:39,720
they're a good neighbor and 
they're powerful. 

1547
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,280
It's just like there's a lot of 
deterrent and they're friendly. 

1548
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,840
So like, yeah, why, why do that?
I I'm sure there were some 

1549
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:49,800
zealots amongst the end alls who
hated the worship of turtles. 

1550
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,360
And but, you know, and other 
things, but what, what were they

1551
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,560
going to do about it? 
You know, they were, they were 

1552
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,920
the weaker nation by far. 
Now the one thing that helped 

1553
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,880
the end alls. 
Avoid some of the Valyrian 

1554
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:06,520
hegemony and authority and 
depredations was that they're 

1555
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:08,680
pretty far away. 
And the farther you get away 

1556
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,000
from the capital, given so much 
power is concentrated in the 

1557
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,080
capital, the less interest the 
the Dragon Lords will. 

1558
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,360
Take in you there's. 
Certainly you're the handle 

1559
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:17,800
certainly weren't a threat and 
the distance was kind of 

1560
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:23,480
annoying, but Valyria did have 
that endless appetite for slaves

1561
01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:27,400
and wealth, so they definitely 
went there and took slaves and 

1562
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,800
wealth. 
How many Dragons actually came 

1563
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,880
to Andalos though? 
Skeptical. 

1564
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,040
It wasn't that many. 
If, if your goal is to take 

1565
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:38,320
slaves, I don't know the Dragons
are that helpful in that regard.

1566
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:40,040
Like Dragons will intimidate and
kill. 

1567
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:43,960
But again, if you're going to be
taken captive and enslaved, you 

1568
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,160
might fight to the death. 
And if a dragon is very capable 

1569
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,800
of killing you, well, then well,
that they haven't accomplished 

1570
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:51,240
their goal. 
If they've killed you, they want

1571
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,880
to take you as a slave, right? 
So that's tricky. 

1572
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,960
They they might have had some 
standard shock and awe type 

1573
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,720
strategy. 
Again, come back to Aegon, and 

1574
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:02,360
maybe this is something he 
learned from from his own 

1575
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:04,440
family's history, from Valyrian 
lore. 

1576
01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:08,040
Go in, blast a central target or
two. 

1577
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:12,400
Smash their biggest castle, burn
their largest castle, kill their

1578
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,320
biggest king like they did with 
the Plancky town. 

1579
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:17,960
They burn the Rainy's, burn the 
Plancky town at the start of 

1580
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:21,600
their conflict with Thorne, 
their their war with Thorne. 

1581
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,360
Aegon burns Harenhalf right off 
the gate, right off the bat, 

1582
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,680
right? 
That's the first thing he does. 

1583
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,800
So this is one attempt this in 
one way you, you dishearten your

1584
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:36,560
foe, You, you tell them there's 
no point in fighting and you get

1585
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,040
the noble class to give up 
because the nobles give up. 

1586
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,240
They have an expectation to be 
able to keep some of their power

1587
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:45,440
as long as they're feeding a lot
of that wealth to Valeria. 

1588
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:48,200
Now we're we're subject to you, 
we'll keep our people in line 

1589
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:49,280
and give you some of that 
wealth. 

1590
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,240
Because if you don't do that, 
then the people at the bottom 

1591
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,280
who are the ones that are going 
to be faced with slavery are 

1592
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:55,880
just going to fight to the death
because they're faced with 

1593
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,600
slavery. 
So you use you subjugate the 

1594
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,320
nobles who then in turn 
subjugate their own people or 

1595
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,960
who have already subjugated 
their own people and just 

1596
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:08,320
continue to use those levers of 
power to accept this compromise 

1597
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,000
from the conquerors so that. 
Yeah, it's it's, it's the 

1598
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,680
opposite. 
Of trickle down, like, yeah, you

1599
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:14,920
trickle down the pain, you 
trickle down the suffering. 

1600
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,960
It's like we we're we've been 
conquered, but the lower classes

1601
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:19,680
are going to be ones that really
suffer through this conquest. 

1602
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:21,360
We're going to still hold a lot 
of our power. 

1603
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,080
We're still going to be, we're 
going to be vassal states 

1604
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,920
instead of independent kingdoms.
But that's better than losing 

1605
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:27,840
everything. 
The people at the bottom did 

1606
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:29,680
lose everything. 
They get enslaved as a as a 

1607
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:31,920
price of conquest. 
A certain number, a certain 

1608
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,000
amount of society has to be 
given into slavery. 

1609
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:38,200
Same thing happened when, say, 
the Roinar showed up at the 

1610
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:40,440
Basilisk Isles. 
The Pirate kings were like, 

1611
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:43,200
we'll let you live here if you 
give us slaves every year. 

1612
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,680
You got to give us 30 girls, 30 
boys, this and that. 

1613
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,320
And we'll leave you alone. 
They're like, we can't accept 

1614
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:51,560
that deal. 
You're just more slavery like. 

1615
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,240
How would we decide amongst 
ourselves who has to be the 

1616
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,640
slaves? 
And then how would we live with 

1617
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,000
ourselves afterwards, after we 
send some of our kids away to 

1618
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,360
die like that? 
So, but the Valerians know that.

1619
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:02,680
The Valerians know that people 
act like that. 

1620
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,960
They know that they will fight. 
But this is this is the line 

1621
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,880
they'll draw in the sand, and 
they're used to it. 5000 years 

1622
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:10,640
of slavery teaches you how 
people. 

1623
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,240
React to the threat of being 
enslaved and you. 

1624
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:15,120
You. 
Have tactics and strategy to 

1625
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:16,640
work around that. 
But there was also. 

1626
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:20,440
Given again, that the big 
distances there's large periods,

1627
01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:23,240
perhaps multiple generations if 
not centuries, where the 

1628
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:25,640
Freehold just kind of ignored 
Andalos because it just wasn't 

1629
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:27,720
worth it for them. 
This is so far away. 

1630
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,160
They have bigger concerns they 
have there's more money to be 

1631
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:34,640
made elsewhere. 
But as I teased before the 

1632
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,920
break, there was at least one 
example of a huge flight of 

1633
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,640
Dragons and it. 
Kind of sounds similar in a lot 

1634
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:43,640
of ways to what happened with 
the Roinar quote. 

1635
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:48,840
The Norvashi sent to Valyria for
help, and the Freehold rose to 

1636
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:50,880
the defense of its distant 
daughter. 

1637
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,600
Though all the lands of the 
Andals and the Roynar lay 

1638
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:58,440
between them, distances meant 
little and less to the Dragon 

1639
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:00,120
Lords in the summer of their 
power. 

1640
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:05,240
However, it is written in the 
fires of the Freehold that 100 

1641
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:09,560
Dragons took to the skies, 
following the great river north 

1642
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:13,800
to descend upon the Andals as 
they lay siege to Norvos. 

1643
01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:19,160
Carlon the Great burned with his
army, and afterward the dragon 

1644
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:23,560
Lords flew onward, bringing 
blood and fire to the Isles of 

1645
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,840
Laura. 
Carlon's great keep went up in 

1646
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:31,160
flames, as did the towns and 
fishing villages along his 

1647
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,120
shores. 
Even the great stones of the 

1648
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:38,520
mazes were scorched and 
blackened by the fire storms 

1649
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,560
that swept across the islands. 
It is said that not a man, woman

1650
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:50,080
or child survived the scouring 
of Laura, so hot did those fires

1651
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,320
burn. 
Nasty huh? 

1652
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:56,360
Like like the Roinar when they 
came, they came to destroy, not 

1653
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,400
conquer. 
Contrary to a lot of other 

1654
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:01,080
scenarios, it seems that the 
Valerians were more likely to 

1655
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:04,320
conquer when it was close enough
to them that they could manage 

1656
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:06,600
it. 
But if it's too far away, they 

1657
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:08,200
just destroy it. 
They just like, they're like 

1658
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:10,400
exterminators. 
They come in and just this, this

1659
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,600
will make sure there's no 
problem again, kill everyone, 

1660
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,760
right? 
It's that, that Roman piece, the

1661
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,480
version of Roman piece which is 
you just kill everyone and well,

1662
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:23,960
that's the end of that problem. 
So it's the piece of a blasted 

1663
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:25,520
landscape, the piece of 
desolation. 

1664
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:27,840
Sometimes they just wanted to 
make sure the problem went away.

1665
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,520
They didn't have an example, so 
but it also does the other thing

1666
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,440
that they like to do every once 
in a while, reminds the world of

1667
01:19:34,440 --> 01:19:36,800
what they're capable of. 
It says look what the Dragons 

1668
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,360
can do. 
In case you forgot 'cause when 

1669
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:45,520
those Dragons were flying north 
across the river like they they 

1670
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,400
headed north along the Rhine, 
there would have been a lot of 

1671
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,920
ruined Roy in our cities. 
That they passed along the way, 

1672
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,680
ruined by their very ancestors. 
Some of them might have. 

1673
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:56,520
Stories they were told as 
children about. 

1674
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:01,280
Great, great, great grandma 
jewelry. 

1675
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,200
Jay Reeves. 
Yeah, some Targaryen delirium 

1676
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:09,680
name, Right. 
And how they were there for the 

1677
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:12,040
burning of Croya in the great 
festival city. 

1678
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:15,920
And they tell stories of how 
that green marble burned so 

1679
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,480
beautifully and it's at night. 
Like, gosh, that's terrible, 

1680
01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:21,280
But. 
They would remember it. 

1681
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:25,440
Well, and you know, the winners 
would would would glorify this, 

1682
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,240
this conquest, this success, 
this dominance and here there 

1683
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:32,480
this was generation had a chance
to be the the example setters 

1684
01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:36,560
yet again, like, ah, we're the 
ones that get to re establish 

1685
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:40,000
Valyrian supremacy by showing 
the world that we can do no one 

1686
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:41,840
will mess with us. 
Again. 

1687
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,800
And here, it wasn't the the end.
Alls weren't attacking the 

1688
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:47,520
Dragon Lords, they weren't 
attacking Valyria. 

1689
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,960
They were attacking one of the 
Free Cities which had been 

1690
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,000
founded by the Dragon Lords but 
was one of the Free Cities. 

1691
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:58,440
It was ruled independently. 
It just had Valyria to thank for

1692
01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:01,960
its protection and it surely 
sent taxes and things like that.

1693
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:03,840
Again, it was, they called for 
help. 

1694
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,160
They didn't come on their own. 
It was like we had to petition 

1695
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:07,960
them, we had to get them here. 
That what did they they, they 

1696
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,240
maybe had to give something. 
They maybe had to like give tax 

1697
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,880
concessions or what are you 
going to do for us? 

1698
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,920
Or maybe they just did it for 
their own, you know, their own 

1699
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,920
reputation and all that. 
But again, it was, it's a rare 

1700
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,440
event when you have this 
political unity within the 

1701
01:21:22,440 --> 01:21:25,600
Dragon Lord families to come 
together to show the world what 

1702
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:28,000
they're capable of in a way that
helps them all equally. 

1703
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:30,320
When they go out and destroy 
everything. 

1704
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,520
No one family gets to take a lot
of wealth. 

1705
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:34,800
Home and hold that over the 
others. 

1706
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:36,400
If they're all just going in and
burning everything. 

1707
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:41,000
Insight, All they get from that 
is glory, you know, and fear. 

1708
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,280
They don't, actually. 
It doesn't give any of them more

1709
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,440
status amongst each other or 
wealth amongst each other, which

1710
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:50,160
again is their chief concern. 
The rest of the world is their 

1711
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:52,600
playground to them. 
They totally destroyed Lorath, 

1712
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:55,640
but they didn't conquer Lorath 
right? 

1713
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:59,240
Like so in general, the the the 
thing you can't do with the 

1714
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,160
powerful Air Force is take 
something over, you can destroy 

1715
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,480
it. 
And if the 40 families are 

1716
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:06,800
worried about anyone of them 
getting more powerful than the 

1717
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,040
other going to destroy 
something, sure, fine, we'll go 

1718
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:11,160
destroy it. 
We just don't want the Jones to 

1719
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,160
have a greener grass than us or 
whatever, you know? 

1720
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:17,120
I think. 
About the idea of just just some

1721
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,800
kids, some family, some farmer 
in this field and Lorath all of 

1722
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,560
a sudden here come these Dragons
burn everyone everything to 

1723
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,960
death. 
It's just, it's just so unfair 

1724
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:27,520
you. 
Know, yeah, it really is kind. 

1725
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,240
Of understand why we want to 
have democracy so we can kind of

1726
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:33,080
keep control over what our 
leaders are getting mixed up in.

1727
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:37,280
And again, how the, the, the, 
the difference in how modern 

1728
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,760
military or in George's world, 
how Dragons change things 

1729
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:44,480
because you can't. 
I'm just thinking about like in 

1730
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,800
Vietnam, like American bombers 
just flying over dropping 

1731
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,880
napalm. 
Like Rome couldn't even do that.

1732
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,440
You know what I mean? 
Like other ancient empires, you 

1733
01:22:53,440 --> 01:22:57,960
know, even an attack take a 
while for the soldiers to get 

1734
01:22:57,960 --> 01:22:59,280
there. 
And it was, you know, they're 

1735
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,480
going to be fighting in fields. 
It's hard to just suddenly kill 

1736
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:06,360
all the innocent civilians from 
hundreds of miles away, totally 

1737
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:09,000
wipe them out. 
It's just like a a devastating 

1738
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:12,600
powerful power to for anyone to 
have these Dragons, you know? 

1739
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:13,960
Think of how that goes to your 
head too. 

1740
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,880
As a Valyrian dragon rider, 
you're, you've been sitting at 

1741
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:21,760
the pinnacle of, of the world 
for as long as you can. 

1742
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:25,720
Plus your family has been doing 
that for generations, if not 

1743
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,280
eons. 
And then you get to go out and 

1744
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:33,120
do that and remind yourself why 
you are elite. 

1745
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:35,600
And so, yes, I am one of the 
most powerful beings on this 

1746
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,880
planet, 'cause I can do this and
there's nothing they can do 

1747
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:39,920
about it. 
I can inflict my will upon the 

1748
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:45,440
world with my 99 cohorts here, 
all flying Dragons too, and they

1749
01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:48,040
can't even take out one of 
these, let alone all 100. 

1750
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,000
Yeah, it's really, you're right.
It is kind of, it is almost 

1751
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,120
unfair. 
It's just like there's no, 

1752
01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:56,160
there's no contest there. 
And that creates such a 

1753
01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:01,760
disparity within within the 
world and they. 

1754
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:03,920
Had all this time too. 
On top of that, they have all 

1755
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:05,400
this time. 
They've had thousands of years 

1756
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:09,040
to figure out the best. 
Ways to use this unique? 

1757
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:10,520
Power that they have, that 
they're. 

1758
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:13,560
Holding over everyone else 
again, maybe it wasn't written 

1759
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,520
down in military manuals 'cause 
they might have wanted to keep 

1760
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:18,880
some of that stuff secret. 
And maybe some of those have 

1761
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:21,760
been lost because, you know, if 
any of it was written down, 

1762
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:23,640
well, a lot of it would have 
been destroyed by the doom. 

1763
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:25,320
But. 
Maybe some of them survived 

1764
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:28,040
like. 
Again, we we theorize that Aegon

1765
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:31,800
might have been using some 
established tactics by best ways

1766
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,280
to use Dragons in war best ways 
to use a particularly large 

1767
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:39,040
dragon like Valerian, one who 
has particularly higher levels 

1768
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,680
of invulnerability and and fear 
and the ability to melt a 

1769
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:44,280
castle, unlike a lot of the 
other Dragons which their fire 

1770
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:46,640
isn't quite as hot. 
Kind of like when I was seeing 

1771
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:50,760
about like World War Two 
warfare, Like there's a certain,

1772
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,760
I imagine as dragon gets bigger,
it's fire can be shot from 

1773
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:57,160
farther away. 
Does that make sense? 

1774
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,120
It doesn't have to expose itself
as much when it can shoot it's 

1775
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,440
fire blast. 
And when it if it could be out 

1776
01:25:02,440 --> 01:25:05,440
of the range of an Archer but 
still blasts fire into a castle,

1777
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:08,360
that's like got to be like a 
threshold that where strategy 

1778
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,240
changes, you know? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1779
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:13,240
In general, it just makes me 
wonder about other books, 

1780
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:14,800
Valyrian books that are out 
there. 

1781
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:20,400
Like did Aegon was seemingly 
well read, but did he read books

1782
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,280
that were relevant to dragon 
conquering and well, and 

1783
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,400
prophecy while we're at it, 
those those two things like 

1784
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,120
we're mostly interested in 
Dragons this episode, not 

1785
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:28,760
prophecy, but those things do 
overlap. 

1786
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:31,360
If it was part of his motivation
and his preparation, he wanted 

1787
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,800
to do it right. 
He took it seriously. 

1788
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:36,040
He's like, well, let me let me 
read some things and figure out,

1789
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:37,760
you know, maybe I'll learn 
something from there now. 

1790
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:39,480
In fire and. 
Blood, for example, we hear that

1791
01:25:39,480 --> 01:25:43,920
Alice Ann Queen Alice Ann, the 
Alice Ann when she went to the 

1792
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:46,640
Citadel one time she attended 
lectures on Valyrian dragon 

1793
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,440
wars. 
That's that's a topic that she 

1794
01:25:48,440 --> 01:25:51,160
attended. 
Who knows how good these classes

1795
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:53,360
were, like how well they 
understand it, what books 

1796
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:55,000
they're using, but probably 
pretty good. 

1797
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,680
I wouldn't suspect it's, you 
know, like National Enquirer 

1798
01:25:57,680 --> 01:25:58,760
stuff. 
I figured like it's pretty 

1799
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:00,960
solidly academic text. 
They probably got some real 

1800
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,120
books they're working with some 
actual history there, but kind 

1801
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:06,160
of teases fun tease to think 
about. 

1802
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:12,640
Now, of course, part of the the 
deal with Laura is that it's in 

1803
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:16,560
or past Andalos and a lot of the
free cities were founded in that

1804
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,360
region after Valyria cleared it 
out, right? 

1805
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:21,640
They cleared out the Rhine and 
some new cities popped up. 

1806
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,320
A lot of them were volunteer 
cities or sisters of of of 

1807
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,560
Atlantis, Pentas and Mir and all
these other cities were in this 

1808
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:32,360
region, especially Cohor and 
Norvos in particular were in 

1809
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:38,280
former Andalos, so that those 
areas were maybe scoured of 

1810
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,080
Andal's, many of whom fled to 
Westeros. 

1811
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:43,200
And later Valyrian settlers went
there. 

1812
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:44,960
For example, that is what 
happened at Laura. 

1813
01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:48,680
It was empty. 
For like 100 years or more, I 

1814
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:50,760
forget exactly. 
Check out our episode on Laura 

1815
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:52,360
where we go into a lot more 
detail on it. 

1816
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:56,440
But eventually it was religious 
dissidents that left Valyria 

1817
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:00,920
'cause they weren't they, they 
wanted to be the only, They 

1818
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:02,520
didn't want to be around all the
other religions. 

1819
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:07,520
Valyria was open to all 
religions, but these guys, they 

1820
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,440
didn't really like that. 
So they some of the some of the 

1821
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:11,040
religions that didn't like the 
other didn't get along. 

1822
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,520
They went the the worshippers of
Boash, the blind God moved to 

1823
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,400
this empty scoured maze that was
left behind. 

1824
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:21,520
So that was many years later, 
but it kind of came full circle 

1825
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:26,000
by people from Valyria that took
a place that the Dragon Lords 

1826
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:29,080
had emptied out for them a 
century before now. 

1827
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:33,480
We do know that the free cities,
even though they were partly 

1828
01:27:33,480 --> 01:27:38,360
free, and the word free is. 
Not exactly true, but they were 

1829
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:42,040
smart enough to not make any of 
the mistakes of the previous 

1830
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,000
cultures in the region. 
They never, well, they knew 

1831
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:46,960
better. 
Here's what we're told. 

1832
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,280
Quote. 
Dutiful daughters, none ever 

1833
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,600
made war upon Valyria, nor 
defied the Dragon Lords in any 

1834
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,720
matter of significance. 
Common sense really. 

1835
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:59,160
Like why would they? 
They saw what happened to they 

1836
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:00,440
had. 
They also had thousands of years

1837
01:28:00,440 --> 01:28:02,560
of history to look at and see 
how the Valyrians dealt with 

1838
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,400
people who stood up to them. 
And they by then would have been

1839
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,960
aware that there was a time when
300 Dragon Lords just came 

1840
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:11,240
together. 
And it was like there was a time

1841
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,920
when 100 yeah, let's not. 
Let's just do what they. 

1842
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:18,160
Say and make the best of it. 
Super chat from James Boris. 

1843
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:19,600
Boris sorry if I said that 
wrong. 

1844
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaking of anti air, do you 
think any non Valyrian 

1845
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:25,240
civilization of Essos developed 
anti air slash dragon tech? 

1846
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:28,240
Maybe the others if you buy the 
other invasion of Essos theory. 

1847
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:31,480
I do wonder about that. 
Like the Valyria we see the 

1848
01:28:31,480 --> 01:28:33,360
Roinar. 
I mean they were able to shoot 

1849
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,400
Dragons down with just arrows, 
which seems impossible given 

1850
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,560
Westerosi technology. 
Like there's nothing's even come

1851
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:41,320
close to that. 
Vicenia once got an arrow in the

1852
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,560
shoulder and it wasn't even a 
big deal. 

1853
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:47,240
So, oh, that's it as far as 
arrows hitting any Targaryen, 

1854
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:50,400
like of all we know, like it 
just doesn't seem to have it's 

1855
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,400
it's very difficult to do, but 
it might be a matter of 

1856
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:53,960
technology that might just have 
better bows. 

1857
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:57,360
Maybe the Roiner had for all we 
know, they had some magic in 

1858
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,200
their bows. 
Maybe they had a something 

1859
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:02,800
comparable to Valyrian steel, 
you know, and not as good, but 

1860
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:07,400
maybe better than Westerosi 
steel that would penetrate the 

1861
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:11,000
armor or dragon scales better. 
Yeah, you wonder about that. 

1862
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:14,200
I don't really picture the ice 
javelin of season eight kind of 

1863
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:21,240
thing, but water. 
Spouts is pretty high magic, so 

1864
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:24,600
like maybe that's not so crazy 
that there are things like ice 

1865
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:28,080
javelins or something like that.
I was, I'd still defaulted 

1866
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:32,280
talking about the sheer numbers 
and, and potential increase in 

1867
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,920
skill that would come with that.
I will also throw out there that

1868
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:39,080
a lot of times in this 
discussion, I, I was thinking 

1869
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:42,560
about Avatar the Last Airbender 
because that's some of the, the 

1870
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,440
sorcery in that world is based 
around the elements. 

1871
01:29:44,440 --> 01:29:46,560
There's fire benders, water 
benders, earth benders, right? 

1872
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:49,920
And there's some variations like
some of the water benders can 

1873
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:51,920
blood bend. 
That's kind of like a dark magic

1874
01:29:52,440 --> 01:29:55,680
and often the ice, the water 
benders can like turn the water 

1875
01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:58,040
to ice. 
So I you know, I wonder if that 

1876
01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:01,840
could be a factor if you could 
like I thought it when you said 

1877
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:03,280
an ice javelin. 
You know what? 

1878
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:08,080
I mean, yeah, could the. 
Yeah, pull up, you know, a gush 

1879
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:11,680
of water from a river and sweep 
it off into the air and 

1880
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:13,840
crystallize it into ice as 
shooting toward a. 

1881
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:17,400
Drag because it's shards that 
would be yeah, at that velocity.

1882
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:19,320
Maybe too, if the Dragon's in 
flight, it would add to. 

1883
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:21,560
It a bunch of different water 
droplets becoming little ice 

1884
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:24,240
shards could rip through a wing 
or something like that, yeah. 

1885
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:25,680
That's interesting. 
Like, yeah, it's like. 

1886
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:28,360
It's like a grape shot but ice 
shot instead. 

1887
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:32,240
Instead of a sail, it's a wing. 
There are enough lessons in the 

1888
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:34,960
Dance of the Dragons alone for 
multiple episodes. 

1889
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,880
In terms of dragon versus dragon
and dragon versus army. 

1890
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,320
There are some innovations or 
some lessons were remembered, 

1891
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:44,680
for example Westeros. 
Did recall some of the lessons. 

1892
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:48,800
Of Aegon's Conquest, which was. 
Don't put 50,000 soldiers in one

1893
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:51,360
place when you're facing 
Dragons. 

1894
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:53,160
Smaller armies. 
Makes sense. 

1895
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:55,160
So the the. 
The the blacks and the greens 

1896
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:57,360
at. 
Least have that level of sense 

1897
01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:00,680
and let's do so. 
Let's talk about Westeros, 

1898
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:03,080
starting with Aegon, or actually
not Aegon. 

1899
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:06,040
Let's go to his more immediate 
ancestors after the Doom, the 

1900
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:10,640
Targaryen, the Dragonstone. 
A lot depends on Anar, the exile

1901
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:12,040
and those in charge of his 
household. 

1902
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:14,640
And what I mean by that is. 
They had wealth. 

1903
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,240
Accumulated over centuries if 
not longer. 

1904
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:20,880
And what they brought with them 
to Westeros like. 

1905
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:24,280
And I don't mean people and 
artifacts, although those are 

1906
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:28,640
interesting too. 
Just the books the the knowledge

1907
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:31,800
they brought with them 
represents a large portion of 

1908
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:34,120
all the surviving dragon lore in
the world. 

1909
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:36,800
Given that, we should assume 
that a huge percentage of it was

1910
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:42,520
destroyed by the Doom itself and
as we've talked about before. 

1911
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:44,200
There may have. 
Been some reluctance to write 

1912
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,040
down some of these things in the
1st place, given some of it 

1913
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:49,440
might have been like the 
equivalent of corporate secrets.

1914
01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:51,760
You don't want other families, 
dragon rider families to know 

1915
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:54,560
what you know. 
Unless you're exchanging 

1916
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:55,880
secrets, maybe that's 
worthwhile. 

1917
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:58,400
Maybe some of them have 
alliances where certain secrets 

1918
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:01,600
of dragon lore and dragon kind 
are traded behind the scenes 

1919
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:03,120
there. 
I mean, Dragonstone has to have 

1920
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,440
some scrolls, right? 
But are these scrolls going to 

1921
01:32:06,440 --> 01:32:09,320
contain the kind of common 
wisdom that we're speaking to 

1922
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:13,640
directly in this episode of why 
it's stupid to have Dragons 

1923
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:15,520
fight each other? 
Maybe they just took that for 

1924
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:16,880
granted because it's common 
sense to them. 

1925
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,080
Maybe after so long it was it 
became so ingrained that they 

1926
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,440
didn't need to say it anymore, 
that it was just too obvious, 

1927
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,040
which is the condition that 
eventually leads to it being 

1928
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:30,280
forgotten, or the reason why it 
was emphasized, the underpinning

1929
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:33,480
cultural reasons. 
The underpinning thought process

1930
01:32:33,480 --> 01:32:35,360
is lost. 
It's like it's like having. 

1931
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,640
An ancient device that functions
really well, but lost the 

1932
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:39,960
instructions for it. 
You've lost the manuals for it. 

1933
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:42,640
You still have it. 
It still works, but you forgot 

1934
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,200
why it was developed in the best
ways to use it. 

1935
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:48,800
Forgot. 
Is using a term applied to a 

1936
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:51,200
whole culture or a whole group 
of people rather than they 

1937
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:52,880
didn't literally forget like how
did? 

1938
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:56,480
That work again. 
It's like they got amnesia. 

1939
01:32:56,480 --> 01:32:59,320
No it's not that. 
Of course, since we're told no 

1940
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:02,120
Dragons fought each other in 
Westeros until Valerian fought 

1941
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:06,440
Quicksilver during Magor's 
ascension, that means the 

1942
01:33:06,440 --> 01:33:09,360
Dragons of the Lords of 
Dragonstone era never fought one

1943
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:11,840
another that we know of. 
Though they might have done it 

1944
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:13,480
just without Dragons. 
Right? 

1945
01:33:13,480 --> 01:33:16,080
So what I'm saying here is the 
pre royal Targaryens didn't 

1946
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:20,080
fight each other, or at least if
they did it wasn't using 

1947
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:21,920
Dragons. 
At least not in a sense, not in 

1948
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:23,600
a way that any dragon died 
because of it. 

1949
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:25,560
But we're said they didn't. 
They literally didn't. 

1950
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:28,600
Fight No Dragon fought dragon in
the sky since Valyria. 

1951
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:33,000
When Meghor and Aegon the Young 
Crown fought, it was the first 

1952
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,760
time since then. 
Maybe they get well and well 

1953
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,400
enough, maybe they lack the 
ambition for infighting. 

1954
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:40,360
Who knows. 
But. 

1955
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:42,720
The Lords of Dragonstone, they 
kept it tight. 

1956
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,760
They kept. 
Unity, at least to a certain 

1957
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:47,320
point. 
Maybe there's just a lot of 

1958
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:49,440
collective trauma about the loss
of Valyria. 

1959
01:33:49,440 --> 01:33:51,320
Like wow, like that's a big 
deal. 

1960
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:54,120
Like only, and it only happened 
twenty, 30-40 years ago. 

1961
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:57,480
Does that put you in a 
conquering? 

1962
01:33:57,480 --> 01:34:00,280
Mood I don't know how these. 
Things work, but. 

1963
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:03,240
The Century of Blood itself was 
pretty brutal too, and maybe 

1964
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:06,080
they just, and maybe some nasty 
fates befell some of the 

1965
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:09,160
Targaryens on their Dragons in 
outside conflicts, just not 

1966
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:11,120
against each other. 
Maybe they were, they kept that 

1967
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,120
the wisdom of not fighting each 
other, but they went and got 

1968
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:17,520
embroiled in various events that
happened during this Century of 

1969
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,880
Blood and that some of them may 
have not come back from that. 

1970
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:25,680
I mean Aegon did this, he fought
against the volunteers, he 

1971
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,400
burned a a fleet at least that 
was trying to invade. 

1972
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:31,040
And maybe he wasn't the 1st to 
get involved. 

1973
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:33,800
He was just more successful. 
And the Dragons that were older 

1974
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:36,640
than Valerian, they were he was 
the youngest of the five Dragons

1975
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:40,560
that came over. 
They died, maybe all of them of 

1976
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:47,080
old age maybe, but that's maybe 
not, you know, that's you can 

1977
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:49,760
see why there's room to think 
that maybe something else 

1978
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:51,240
happened. 
But we know it wasn't dragon 

1979
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:53,640
versus Dragons. 
So interestingly, the population

1980
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:56,480
of Dragons actually declined in 
this time frame. 

1981
01:34:56,480 --> 01:34:58,960
You'd think that they'd really 
want to make sure that Dragons 

1982
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:01,520
didn't go extinct, but they also
didn't want anyone else to have 

1983
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:03,640
Dragons. 
They weren't marrying out a lot.

1984
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:05,680
This was a period of the 
Targaryen sort of looking 

1985
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,320
inward, staying inward. 
They weren't expanding. 

1986
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:10,120
They weren't conquering. 
It's a big point. 

1987
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:11,240
There's a lot of missing info 
here. 

1988
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:14,280
We don't know a lot about these,
these Targaryens, but it may 

1989
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:16,080
have been a strategy. 
They could have hatched more 

1990
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:18,480
eggs if they wanted to, but they
just maybe they didn't want 

1991
01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:20,120
anyone else getting Dragons and 
riding them. 

1992
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:22,960
It was, it was a tense, you 
know, it was a touch and go kind

1993
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:24,280
of period. 
They might have wanted to 

1994
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:26,320
consolidate. 
They might have rather have 

1995
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:30,560
three really big, powerful, 
strong Dragons than 10 average 

1996
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:34,200
Dragons. 
Let's let's get Valerian big 

1997
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:37,280
enough that he can burn down a 
freaking castle, and then we can

1998
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:38,720
start cultivating some younger 
ones. 

1999
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:40,160
And they didn't. 
Even have 10 riders. 

2000
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:41,440
Yeah. 
So like, they couldn't. 

2001
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:43,640
Yeah. 
There, there may have been 

2002
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:47,360
because one thought is like, 
maybe they want to like preserve

2003
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:49,760
the Dragons and start 
repopulating that that's one 

2004
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:52,440
reason we see like we can't risk
fighting each other. 

2005
01:35:52,440 --> 01:35:54,080
We can't even risk fighting 
other people. 

2006
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:56,840
Maybe Aegon knew he could risk 
burning some ships down 'cause 

2007
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,720
it's not really a risk, right? 
But we definitely can't have 

2008
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,720
them fighting each other. 
But that that conflicts with the

2009
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:05,440
idea of the population 
declining. 

2010
01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:08,160
But maybe it's because they were
trying to get one or two Dragons

2011
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:12,560
up to a certain threshold. 
Then they could burn fire down 

2012
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:16,080
from a distance greater than, or
to reach the fire strong up to 

2013
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,800
melt stone or whatever. 
Again, maybe lessons that they 

2014
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:22,520
knew from Old Valyria that had 
been lost or written down or 

2015
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:26,840
records don't exist or whatever 
else could also be all part of a

2016
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:29,160
prophecy. 
Maybe they knew they needed to 

2017
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:31,840
have X number or a dragon of X 
size. 

2018
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,680
Or dragon must have 3 heads. 
Yeah, yeah. 

2019
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:37,720
So 'cause it's, it's, it's 
definitely curious, 'cause they 

2020
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:39,160
could have hashed more if they 
wanted to. 

2021
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:42,160
Like when Jerry's and Allison 
had a bunch of kids, there were 

2022
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:44,240
a lot of eggs to go around. 
Like they didn't all become 

2023
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:46,720
dragon riders, but it wasn't 
because they weren't allowed to 

2024
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:49,400
for the most part. 
And some of them maybe in one or

2025
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:51,480
two cases, but for the most 
part, like they weren't like, 

2026
01:36:51,480 --> 01:36:53,520
Nope, Nope. 
It was just as many Dragons as 

2027
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,600
there are Targaryen. 
So there's another thing here, 

2028
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,480
Sean, that I that we've brought 
up a few times. 

2029
01:36:57,480 --> 01:37:00,200
It's like it must be really 
expensive to upkeep Dragons. 

2030
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:04,240
These are not the Targaryens of 
with the wealth of Valyria 

2031
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:06,080
anymore. 
And they're not the Targaryen to

2032
01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:08,360
the Iron Throne that had the 
taxation of the entire 

2033
01:37:08,360 --> 01:37:11,600
continent. 
So maybe it was actually a part.

2034
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:14,720
Due to cost, they clicked. 
We can't, actually. 

2035
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:16,760
We should keep fewer Dragons 
because it's so. 

2036
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:18,200
Expensive. 
It's hard to imagine the 

2037
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:19,760
Targaryens. 
Ever having money problems? 

2038
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:21,160
It's kind of like, really. 
Did they? 

2039
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:24,520
But it's possible like this is 
where's all their money coming 

2040
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:27,640
from at this point? 
Like they have this small island

2041
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:29,760
whereas before they must have 
had massive holdings. 

2042
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,200
Some of it would just be stored.
Well, they sold off their. 

2043
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,240
Property in Valyria, which was 
most certainly the most 

2044
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:37,680
expensive real estate on the 
planet. 

2045
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:40,160
But eventually you'd run out of 
money, and we're talking 

2046
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:43,200
generations and generations here
with a with a severely reduced 

2047
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:44,800
income. 
From what they had been 

2048
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:48,760
operating on. 
So it could be something 

2049
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:50,720
something more mundane like 
that. 

2050
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:53,840
Yeah, it could also be like, 
aside from money, just like the 

2051
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:57,560
ranging territory where the 
Dragons would feed, you wouldn't

2052
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,560
have to get too far away to find
enough food to for the young 

2053
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:01,920
ones. 
I I don't even think it is so 

2054
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:03,520
just now. 
It could also be that they 

2055
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:07,200
wanted there to be a disparity 
between the bigger, older 

2056
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:08,920
Dragons and the younger, newer. 
Dragons. 

2057
01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:11,160
That's possible. 
When we start do breeding new 

2058
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:14,880
ones that these young upstart 
kids don't dare challenge the 

2059
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:17,240
elder Targaryens with these 
massive Dragons. 

2060
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:19,320
Maybe I like that. 
Idea to be a bigger disparity. 

2061
01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:22,280
Anyway, so escalating. 
The cost is another form of the 

2062
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:23,680
Dragon's undoing. 
We could say. 

2063
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:28,600
Expenses do matter now. 
The Conquest. 

2064
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:32,720
Let's talk about that. 
The Iron Throne may be the thing

2065
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:36,240
that made the end of Dragon's 
inevitable, or at least made it 

2066
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:39,160
not unlikely because the 
Valyrians were a. 

2067
01:38:39,160 --> 01:38:42,160
Freehold, and with the name 
Freehold, is as laughable as 

2068
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:45,240
Free cities, given the 
widespread violent dominance and

2069
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:48,120
slavery they inflicted on the 
region around them for eons. 

2070
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,720
Internally, it's a sign of their
pragmatism. 

2071
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:52,960
They're like, yeah, they learn 
not to fight each other, at 

2072
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:56,200
least not with Dragons, as we 
said, and had a system 

2073
01:38:56,760 --> 01:39:00,320
apparently built around keeping 
that status quo, of reminding 

2074
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,040
themselves of why they shouldn't
fight each other with Dragons. 

2075
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:06,200
Again, we said there must have 
been exceptions times when 

2076
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:10,960
Dragon fought Dragon, but that. 
A must have been resolved and 

2077
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,880
clearly it didn't end them 
because they were able to 

2078
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:14,760
continue as A. 
Society beyond that. 

2079
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:18,200
A throne, I think, did destroy 
the blacks and greens, and that 

2080
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:21,280
throne never existed in Valyria.
They knew better than to do 

2081
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:23,240
that. 
They knew better than to play 

2082
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:25,040
the Game of Thrones 'cause when 
you play the Game of Thrones, 

2083
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:27,600
you win or you die. 
Let's play the game of freehold.

2084
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:32,000
That's a better game for US. 
Forty of us can win, 40 families

2085
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:36,360
can win. 
So yeah, the phrase is you. 

2086
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:37,800
When you play the Game of 
Thrones, you win or you die. 

2087
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:39,840
But the Dragons die even when 
you win. 

2088
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:41,800
That's why you can't play that 
game. 

2089
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:44,760
You win or you die, but all the 
Dragons die. 

2090
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,120
The the people survive, but all 
the Dragons are going to die. 

2091
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:49,040
So. 
And a lot of people die too, 

2092
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:51,080
for. 
Yeah, yeah, it's. 

2093
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:55,880
Only the Dragons father Dragons,
yeah, you know, but it's the 

2094
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:58,480
Dragons and people fighting 
Dragons and people, so. 

2095
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:02,160
Yeah, so maybe you can actually 
we should consider blaming Egg 

2096
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:06,360
on the Conqueror for forgetting 
how important it was to not do 

2097
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:08,600
that when you have Dragon. 
Maybe he thought because they're

2098
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:10,880
all in one family, they'll all 
stay united. 

2099
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:12,480
But that's. 
Naive. 

2100
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:14,880
The throne is too much of A 
temptation. 

2101
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:16,080
It didn't. 
Take his own. 

2102
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:19,320
Sons fought over the throne. 
I mean, it didn't take took one 

2103
01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:21,440
generation for them to start 
fighting over it. 

2104
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:23,040
And arguably. 
That was a. 

2105
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:25,760
Mistake on his part too in 
creating 2 branches and not 

2106
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:27,920
doing enough to reconcile them 
before the time. 

2107
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:30,960
Just like Viserys created 2 
branches and just. 

2108
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:32,680
Kind of demanded. 
That they get along. 

2109
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:35,840
He didn't, really. 
Too much to make it happen. 

2110
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,360
Just kind of ordered them you 
must get along because I say so.

2111
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:39,600
But yeah. 
But when you're not when you're 

2112
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:41,960
dead and not ordering them to 
get along, what's going to make 

2113
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:43,960
them get along? 
They're not getting along even 

2114
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:46,160
with you don't telling them to. 
So what's going to make that 

2115
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:47,520
happen when you're gone? 
Yeah. 

2116
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:50,880
You know, I I've made that 
argument that I thought that 

2117
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:55,480
thesaurus slash Ranira should 
have been flying on their 

2118
01:40:55,480 --> 01:40:58,360
Dragons to all the different 
kingdoms that had sworn 

2119
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:01,320
allegiance, just like Aegon did.
It's just this reminder. 

2120
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:04,360
But they didn't. 
And so when the time comes for 

2121
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:06,920
this civil war, all the other 
house, like, yeah, I'll fight 

2122
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:08,000
for you. 
Yeah, I'll fight for you. 

2123
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:12,080
But if they had seen these 
Dragons and like, I'm going to 

2124
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:14,640
wait till I really have to chew,
you sure you want to. 

2125
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:16,520
There would have been more 
negotiating effort. 

2126
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:18,320
There would have been more 
standoffishness. 

2127
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:20,000
There would have been I I think 
it would have been a whole 

2128
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:23,360
different scenario if everyone 
had been constantly reminded of 

2129
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,320
the power of the Dragons. 
I think you're right, and I 

2130
01:41:25,320 --> 01:41:27,760
think that's part of what they 
forgot. 

2131
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:30,400
Like they forgot it was 
important to show people the 

2132
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:33,000
power of the Dragons. 
They kind of like what Stannis 

2133
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:35,360
realized. 
He at first Stannis thought this

2134
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:38,880
throne belonged to him and then 
everyone should just get in line

2135
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:40,000
with that. 
And he realized now it doesn't 

2136
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:42,520
work that way. 
That's that's sort of how these 

2137
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:44,440
two sides are behaving right 
here is sort of acting like, 

2138
01:41:44,440 --> 01:41:46,480
yeah, the throne's mine. 
It was promised to me. 

2139
01:41:46,480 --> 01:41:49,720
I get it, period. 
The Greens are like, no, it 

2140
01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:51,960
should belong to the man. 
We get it. 

2141
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:55,520
We took it you, we've seized the
opportunity and you should back.

2142
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:58,280
Down. 
These are not good arguments. 

2143
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:02,600
For, for owning the throne, for 
having the throne, Stanis was 

2144
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:05,280
like, yeah, I know I should. 
I should earn it. 

2145
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:08,520
I should show. 
That I'm the best king and like 

2146
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:13,520
if I the blacks and greens never
learn that lesson, but usually 

2147
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:15,720
you don't get a second chance. 
To be fair, Stanis got a second 

2148
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:18,800
chance, which is rare, and it's 
probably not going to. 

2149
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:21,520
Result in him winning the throne
in the in the long run anyway. 

2150
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:23,440
Not with that attitude, not with
that. 

2151
01:42:23,440 --> 01:42:24,280
Attitude. 
Yeah. 

2152
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:29,440
So wouldn't that be really 
ironic if Agons dreams told him 

2153
01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:34,000
he had to unite the seven 
kingdoms to face this threat and

2154
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:36,960
then he did this thing that led 
to the destruction of his own 

2155
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,880
family, the very family that's 
supposed to be there to stop 

2156
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:41,800
this threat 'cause that is what 
happened. 

2157
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,760
They blew up all their Dragons. 
They lost the the advantage, 

2158
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:47,000
They lost the advantage. 
They lost the thing the. 

2159
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:50,320
Prophecies go right When you try
to like, live up to or fight 

2160
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:52,800
against the prophecy, it always 
blows up in your face. 

2161
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:54,800
So. 
So it's it's obviously very hard

2162
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:57,360
to know exactly what he was 
thinking or dreaming or both. 

2163
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:01,200
Not to mention what advice he 
got from anyone he brought it up

2164
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:04,560
to, which we can assume he 
didn't keep it all to himself or

2165
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:06,280
else how would anybody know 
about it? 

2166
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:09,040
I'm talking book obviously, 
because it's show. 

2167
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:12,440
Of course he told people, but we
don't know exactly who. 

2168
01:43:12,440 --> 01:43:14,960
Did he tell Vicena? 
Did he tell Rainey's? 

2169
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:16,680
Did he tell them both? 
Did he tell Annie's? 

2170
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:19,440
Did he tell Megor? 
Good questions, but we don't 

2171
01:43:19,440 --> 01:43:21,880
have the answers. 
Was some of this written down in

2172
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:23,480
the Citadel? 
Was it read in the in the 

2173
01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:25,840
library of Dragonstone? 
Did he rediscover something that

2174
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:27,520
that past Dragon Lords already 
knew? 

2175
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:31,320
Again, the night attack on 
Harrenhal was that something he 

2176
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:33,560
read about was like a good way 
to keep them from getting good 

2177
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:36,040
aim at you is to attack at 
night. 

2178
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:38,240
The fires that you light with 
your dragon will be all the 

2179
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:41,960
light you need. 
You can see the cat the. 

2180
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:43,240
Moonlight will be enough for 
you. 

2181
01:43:43,440 --> 01:43:45,480
There won't be enough for them. 
You know and. 

2182
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:49,560
They're going to be afraid, and 
you will be the thing that's 

2183
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:51,680
making them afraid. 
They will be less afraid if they

2184
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:53,960
can see you. 
Which is kind of ironic cause 

2185
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:57,320
Dragons are very terrifying to 
look at, but still. 

2186
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:00,320
It's not like they won't be 
afraid if they can see you, 

2187
01:44:00,360 --> 01:44:03,040
they'll just be even more afraid
if they can't see you. 

2188
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:06,640
Yeah, what we know for the more 
certainty is that Aegon had the 

2189
01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:09,600
most powerful dragon in the 
world, and it may have been one 

2190
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:12,280
that stood out as huge even back
when there were hundreds of 

2191
01:44:12,280 --> 01:44:14,760
Dragons. 
It's entirely possible that when

2192
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:19,720
100 Dragons went to torch Lorath
or when 300 Dragons went to 

2193
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:23,560
torch the Roinar, that Valerian 
would have stood out as one of 

2194
01:44:23,560 --> 01:44:27,160
the biggest, if not the biggest 
even then, because damn, that's 

2195
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:29,880
a big dragon. 
I got to figure he wasn't the 

2196
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:31,840
biggest ever. 
Like that's a that's a lot, you 

2197
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:35,600
know, to think that just, but it
would explain a lot of Aegon's 

2198
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:37,960
ambition, just realizing what he
had here is like this. 

2199
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:41,560
With this dragon, you can do 
more than these books say you 

2200
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:43,240
can do with a large dragon. 
It's even bigger. 

2201
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:45,360
Like you can go even beyond that
because the conquest was 

2202
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,000
relatively easy until Dorn. 
It's a new thought for me to 

2203
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:51,880
have, but I do wonder if they 
were sizing Valerian up in 100 

2204
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:54,640
years before they moved on 
Westeros. 

2205
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:56,720
Yeah, and I've got more on 
valerian size. 

2206
01:44:56,720 --> 01:44:59,400
Coming when we get to Megor, so 
stay tuned for that. 

2207
01:44:59,960 --> 01:45:03,880
Another thing Westeros learned 
during the conquest was that the

2208
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:05,560
obvious, which is don't use 
ships. 

2209
01:45:06,440 --> 01:45:08,040
It's really bad idea to use 
ships. 

2210
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:10,360
They're the most vulnerable. 
Somehow they. 

2211
01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:12,280
They did need to learn that 
lesson again, apparently. 

2212
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:15,520
And learn that they did. 
They also learned that a dragon,

2213
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:18,560
even in a rainstorm, even a 
vicious downpour where they 

2214
01:45:18,560 --> 01:45:20,720
can't fly. 
It's still very formidable. 

2215
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:23,560
Miraxi's proved that at the 
Battle of the Last Storm, which 

2216
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:25,320
is an episode we did with Jim 
Mcgeehan. 

2217
01:45:25,480 --> 01:45:27,280
For patrons and subscribers 
only. 

2218
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:29,040
Check that out if you're so 
inclined. 

2219
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:31,880
So, yeah, the Field of Fire and 
the burning of Harrenhal, those 

2220
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:34,880
we, we, we talked about those 
during Valarriatus. 

2221
01:45:35,440 --> 01:45:39,360
We pointed out repeatedly that 
those are examples designed to 

2222
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:42,080
stand the test of time, to 
remind people of the power of 

2223
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:44,000
Dragons. 
It was so perfect in part 

2224
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:46,920
because the field of fire, 
largest army ever assembled and 

2225
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:48,440
see what happened to it. 
That's this kind of thing. 

2226
01:45:48,440 --> 01:45:50,560
People are going to remember 
burning of Harrenhal. 

2227
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:53,120
Well, it's still there. 
Harrenhal is still. 

2228
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:56,160
Burned and sitting there so it 
it just obviously that stands 

2229
01:45:56,160 --> 01:46:01,000
the test of time and it worked A
lot of you know, the Starks gave

2230
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,960
up the Aaron's gave up after 
just a little bit after just 

2231
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:06,360
having their Navy torched yeah 
so. 

2232
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:08,320
It. 
It worked. 

2233
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:10,000
It got a lot of people to 
surrender ahead of time. 

2234
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:12,800
And to think that people would 
go against this, let's not 

2235
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:14,480
forget the real world people 
chart. 

2236
01:46:14,480 --> 01:46:17,280
Like you said, Sean, when 
modern, when machine guns were 

2237
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:21,600
invented, people still did the 
charge the front lines strategy,

2238
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:24,480
even though they were running 
right at machine guns and bombs 

2239
01:46:24,480 --> 01:46:26,440
and flamethrower. 
So you think people won't charge

2240
01:46:26,440 --> 01:46:28,000
a dragon? 
You think that's unrealistic? 

2241
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:30,440
Let me remind, let me introduce 
you to. 

2242
01:46:30,440 --> 01:46:33,440
Real life where people charge at
machine guns and bombs and 

2243
01:46:33,440 --> 01:46:35,240
flamethrowers. 
Flamethrower being perhaps the 

2244
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:37,360
best example because it's what 
Dragons do. 

2245
01:46:38,480 --> 01:46:40,520
People charge right at that. 
It's it's crazy. 

2246
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,240
It's like, wow. 
You got to, really. 

2247
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:46,240
Yeah, that's a mindset I don't 
ever expect to have. 

2248
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:48,040
And, and hopefully not for all 
of us. 

2249
01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:51,440
And the Tully's sort of also 
bent the knee like the Starks 

2250
01:46:51,440 --> 01:46:53,440
and Aaron's. 
But for them, it was sort of not

2251
01:46:53,440 --> 01:46:56,920
wanting to face Dragons but also
wanting to not be under hair in 

2252
01:46:56,920 --> 01:46:58,960
the black anymore. 
So there was a double whammy 

2253
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:02,000
there. 
Now Dorne, of course, didn't go 

2254
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:04,200
so well for the Targaryens. 
The the Dornish were like, we 

2255
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:07,200
don't have to surrender. 
We don't value our castles as 

2256
01:47:07,200 --> 01:47:09,400
much as we value people. 
Go ahead and burn the castles. 

2257
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:11,920
We'll hide in the caves and 
strike later. 

2258
01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:15,280
But remember how it started. 
Miraxi's just showed up with 

2259
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:16,840
Rainy. 
Or Rainy showed up on Miraxi's 

2260
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:19,240
burned the Plankey town, a 
center of great economic 

2261
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:20,720
activity. 
This was devastating. 

2262
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:23,080
And then they continued. 
Since Dorne didn't surrender, 

2263
01:47:23,240 --> 01:47:25,280
Targaryens kept using the same 
playbook. 

2264
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:27,640
We'll destroy more of your 
country until you give up. 

2265
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:29,200
We won't give up. 
We'll. 

2266
01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:31,360
Destroy more of your country. 
Until you get we won't give up. 

2267
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:34,320
And eventually Darn was reduced 
to a, quote, a smoking ruin. 

2268
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:36,640
There was glass on the sand in 
some places. 

2269
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:39,760
Every castle was burned 
repeatedly except Sunspear, 

2270
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:44,640
which was done to maybe get the 
Darnish to turn on each other to

2271
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:47,400
show that hey but. 
Yeah, but it didn't work. 

2272
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:49,960
And the but the and the 
Targaryens didn't have another 

2273
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:52,200
gear to shift to. 
They're like, this has always 

2274
01:47:52,200 --> 01:47:54,720
worked. 
What do we do? 

2275
01:47:55,160 --> 01:47:59,360
But it the irony of this in 
terms of like looking at is a 

2276
01:47:59,360 --> 01:48:01,760
historical example that shows us
of what the Dragons are really 

2277
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:02,920
capable of. 
It's like, yeah, if they keep 

2278
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,760
going, they will just turn blow 
up every castle in the entire 

2279
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:08,680
region. 
They will destroy every farm or 

2280
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:11,280
that that's maybe that was 
obvious but. 

2281
01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:15,480
Yeah, even like it they were 
able to bring 300 or even 100, 

2282
01:48:15,480 --> 01:48:18,160
or Shea pointed out 30 probably 
would have done it. 

2283
01:48:18,520 --> 01:48:22,080
They didn't have 30, but still, 
two or three could still just 

2284
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:24,560
destroy a whole country. 
It doesn't even need 30, just 

2285
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:26,480
two or three. 
Yeah, it took longer with two or

2286
01:48:26,480 --> 01:48:29,560
three, but it was just as it was
just assuredly done. 

2287
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:32,200
And it partly took longer 
because they didn't really even 

2288
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:34,440
want to do that. 
They wanted to conquer them. 

2289
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:37,400
They wanted to bring them in and
have people to rule and taxes to

2290
01:48:37,400 --> 01:48:39,800
collect. 
But so, so they they dragged it 

2291
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:43,520
out out, but it's still with 
terrible losses all around. 

2292
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:46,640
And the Dragon Lords didn't want
anyone to see this strategy 

2293
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:48,120
work. 
They didn't want this strategy 

2294
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:49,920
to work because then they would 
encourage other people to do it.

2295
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:52,200
Even though it was a it's a 
devastating strategy that's hard

2296
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:54,480
to to use. 
There was they last thing they 

2297
01:48:54,480 --> 01:48:57,800
want is a winning strategy shown
to the world. 

2298
01:48:57,800 --> 01:48:59,200
Like this is how you beat 
Dragons. 

2299
01:49:00,200 --> 01:49:03,320
That that said, I still question
your terminology work and 

2300
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:05,560
winning strategy. 
I still don't think the reach 

2301
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:07,680
was something like, yeah, let's 
we can fight against the Dragons

2302
01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:09,480
just like Dorne. 
Like, I don't think anyone else 

2303
01:49:09,480 --> 01:49:11,440
wanted to use Dorne's strategy. 
No, you're right, You're right. 

2304
01:49:11,440 --> 01:49:14,040
But but that that seems to be 
part of maybe the Targaryen's 

2305
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:16,040
thinking is like, no, we can't. 
We got to, we got to make sure 

2306
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:17,480
we win here. 
They didn't. 

2307
01:49:17,480 --> 01:49:19,720
They had to give up. 
But because of, you know, the 

2308
01:49:19,720 --> 01:49:21,600
cloak and dagger and 
assassination attempts, the kind

2309
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:25,240
of stuff that we suspect was 
going on in Valyria, rather than

2310
01:49:25,240 --> 01:49:27,080
the Dragons just directly 
fighting each other. 

2311
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:29,800
And if Dorne had Dragons of 
their own. 

2312
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:33,920
Well, would Valyria? 
Like would Aegon would just 

2313
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,400
probably never have invaded 
them, They would have maybe 

2314
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:38,760
looked straight, would have gone
straight to marriage offers 

2315
01:49:39,280 --> 01:49:42,520
right off the bat, or who knows.
Culk and Dagger assassination 

2316
01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:45,240
attempts or whatever else you. 
Know yeah, so it would have been

2317
01:49:45,240 --> 01:49:46,960
like them. 
How many innocent lives would 

2318
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:49,440
have been saved? 
Yeah, this is partly why I mean 

2319
01:49:49,440 --> 01:49:50,640
the real. 
World, it's a tough argument. 

2320
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:52,400
This is why people argue like, 
yeah, there should be more 

2321
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:54,080
states with nukes 'cause then 
there would be. 

2322
01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:56,640
It's a tough argument. 
It's like, yeah, you can see the

2323
01:49:56,640 --> 01:49:58,760
downside to that for sure, but 
this is the upside. 

2324
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:01,160
It's like, well, no one will 
ever invade them because. 

2325
01:50:02,120 --> 01:50:03,680
They will. 
That nuke has pointed at that 

2326
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:04,840
invading country. 
And. 

2327
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:06,760
Yeah, so. 
Yeah. 

2328
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:13,240
So the death of Moraxis also was
another reminder of why they're 

2329
01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:17,360
reluctant to use the Dragons. 
Even when it's a cakewalk, even 

2330
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:19,760
when it's easy, even when 
there's very little they can do 

2331
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:22,040
to fight back. 
Because you might get unlucky if

2332
01:50:22,040 --> 01:50:25,040
you never have to use your 
dragon, if you only use it as a 

2333
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:26,880
threat. 
It's not getting shot in the eye

2334
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:29,120
by a scorpion bolt, is it? 
Right. 

2335
01:50:29,120 --> 01:50:30,640
You're not. 
It's not crashing to. 

2336
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:32,840
It's not the end of the war 
basically, 'cause you capture 

2337
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:36,640
the dragon rider and use that as
leverage to against his beloved 

2338
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:38,680
husband, her, her beloved 
husband, etcetera. 

2339
01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:43,720
So as you said earlier, Sean, 
Aegon and his sisters famously 

2340
01:50:43,720 --> 01:50:48,120
failed in dorm, but they kept up
the pressure on their vassals by

2341
01:50:48,120 --> 01:50:53,880
just friendly parties. 
I show up with Mike entourage, 

2342
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:55,760
we hang out, we go hunting and 
Hawking. 

2343
01:50:56,840 --> 01:50:58,960
These aren't equal. 
These aren't equals, though. 

2344
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:04,440
These aren't friends at the same
social level, enjoying, you 

2345
01:51:04,440 --> 01:51:08,160
know, their equal status. 
This is one guy with the silk 

2346
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:12,160
love rather than the gauntlet, 
the the gauntlets outside 

2347
01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:16,240
chowing down on an Orox and 
intimidating the hell out of 

2348
01:51:16,240 --> 01:51:17,840
everybody. 
It's But that's the way that's 

2349
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:20,320
such a good way to do it, 
because these these Lords are so

2350
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:22,240
proud. 
They have so much pride. 

2351
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:24,600
That pride will make them do 
stupid things, and Hagan knows. 

2352
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:29,280
That he's like, well. 
This is the way to assuage their

2353
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,480
pride without rubbing their 
faces in it. 

2354
01:51:31,480 --> 01:51:34,400
Like, look, I will destroy you 
and this is proof of it. 

2355
01:51:35,160 --> 01:51:37,320
Bend the knee now. 
No, they show up and like, yeah,

2356
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:40,840
we're friends 'cause the 
unspoken threat is there. 

2357
01:51:40,840 --> 01:51:42,240
They're not stupid. 
They've already. 

2358
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:43,880
The field of fire has already 
happened. 

2359
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:46,640
Dorne has already happened. 
They know what happened. 

2360
01:51:46,640 --> 01:51:48,520
You don't have to remind them. 
You don't have to be like Meg, 

2361
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:50,560
or will be. 
You don't have to rub their 

2362
01:51:50,560 --> 01:51:53,000
faces in it. 
But you also shouldn't be like 

2363
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:54,280
Annie's. 
Who doesn't? 

2364
01:51:54,680 --> 01:51:57,760
Who goes the extreme opposite 
and doesn't rub their faces in 

2365
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:00,920
it even a little bit. 
Is afraid to use his dragon in 

2366
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:05,040
any form of violence. 
Aegon did the thing that Titus 

2367
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:08,400
did, pulled kind of like a Jaime
Lannister, to use the books as 

2368
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:12,040
an example. 
When Jamie is very nice to Titus

2369
01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:14,640
Blackwood, he doesn't make him 
actually bend the knee, just 

2370
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,280
makes him agree, makes him say, 
yeah, you can send whatever 

2371
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:19,680
hostage you want. 
But when he's leaving, he's 

2372
01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:22,640
like, let me remind you, this 
was unnecessary. 

2373
01:52:22,640 --> 01:52:25,440
He Jamie's like he kind of lose.
He he steps back like kind of 

2374
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:27,960
goof, just a little bit. 
Like he didn't have to say this,

2375
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:28,960
but maybe this was for the 
reader. 

2376
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:32,800
He's like, just to be clear, I 
will come back here and kill you

2377
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:37,520
all if I if you give me Cosby. 
He's like, yeah, I know. 

2378
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:39,320
I know who I'm dealing with. 
Kingslayer. 

2379
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:40,880
He says that he's like, yeah, I 
know. 

2380
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:42,240
We like the smile comes off his 
place. 

2381
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:43,920
Like you didn't have to say 
that. 

2382
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,400
Like, we were exchanging the 
subtleties properly. 

2383
01:52:46,400 --> 01:52:48,960
I read between the lines. 
It was obvious, bro. 

2384
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:51,880
You didn't have to say that and 
this is the same. 

2385
01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:53,960
Thing going on here, like 
Aegon's like, yeah, you don't 

2386
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:58,080
have to rub my face and I know 
exactly what your giant dragon 

2387
01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:02,160
chowing on an Orox means. 
By the way, it's a little bit of

2388
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:05,320
a tangent, but I read that a 
little bit as like Jamie 

2389
01:53:05,480 --> 01:53:08,520
reminded himself, he's like, I 
can't be their friends. 

2390
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:10,280
I still have to be ruthless. 
You're kind of right. 

2391
01:53:10,280 --> 01:53:12,240
Yeah, He kind of was reminding 
himself, yeah, 'cause he also 

2392
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:13,760
says that to the to Haas the 
hostage. 

2393
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:15,760
He's like, this isn't of game 
little kid, you know he's. 

2394
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:19,360
Like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm my bad,
Sir Jamie. 

2395
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:23,960
So Amis, let's talk about Amis. 
This is this is this is amazing.

2396
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:28,320
How? 
Well, the 1st 4 Kings provide us

2397
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:31,400
a different look into the 
insight of how they use Dragons.

2398
01:53:31,400 --> 01:53:36,520
Aegon showed what he would do, 
proved it all, made all examples

2399
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:38,400
of a lot of people and then 
backed off and was just like let

2400
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:40,440
that do the talking for the rest
of his reign. 

2401
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:44,640
Amis relied maybe too much on 
what his father had done and 

2402
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,880
didn't re establish the examples
which. 

2403
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:48,520
He. 
Needed to do because they're 

2404
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:50,840
like well, you're not your dad, 
you're not the guy, you're not 

2405
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:53,520
the one who did this. 
So he had a dragon Quicksilver. 

2406
01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,120
Several of his dragon children 
would be dragon ours as well. 

2407
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,960
But he really showed that 
willpower is everything when it 

2408
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:03,800
comes to draconic authority. 
If you aren't willing to use 

2409
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:06,280
your dragon, you effectively 
don't have one. 

2410
01:54:06,440 --> 01:54:11,520
And that was the message that 
that developed in Ames's very 

2411
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:14,320
short reign. 
And he says Father instilled 

2412
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:16,720
fear in everyone he reminded. 
Them of what he was. 

2413
01:54:16,720 --> 01:54:20,320
Capable of and what he had. 
Done again, Heron Hall, Field of

2414
01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:21,080
Fire? 
Not very. 

2415
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:23,960
Far in the past visual example 
in Heron Hall's case. 

2416
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:26,440
That's never going to not be 
true. 

2417
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:29,440
He was willing to be a dragon, 
but over. 

2418
01:54:29,440 --> 01:54:32,960
Time and right away because some
of some rebellions broke out 

2419
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:34,360
almost as soon as Amy took the 
throne. 

2420
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:37,720
He was unable to fulfill the 
standard set by his father and 

2421
01:54:37,720 --> 01:54:39,160
everyone knew it. 
In fact, they had probably 

2422
01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:41,960
learned that while he was Prince
that a lot of them got to meet 

2423
01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:45,560
him face to face and took took 
his metal and realized well. 

2424
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:49,240
He's he's not the he's more of 
the copper like Renly. 

2425
01:54:49,240 --> 01:54:53,720
You know that example where the 
three Baratheons are compared to

2426
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:56,160
types of metal? 
Well, Aegon would be Valyrian 

2427
01:54:56,160 --> 01:55:00,960
steel, AE and E would be copper.
You know, Magor would be iron 

2428
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:02,760
breaks before he bends right 
there. 

2429
01:55:02,760 --> 01:55:05,480
There's also work in this in 
this example. 

2430
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:08,600
When he took the throne, more 
than 25 years had passed since 

2431
01:55:08,600 --> 01:55:11,040
his father's examples his his 
violent examples. 

2432
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:14,240
He had still been making the 
nonviolent examples all along. 

2433
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:16,760
Quicksilver never killed a 
person. 

2434
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:19,040
That we know of. 
And I bet not a lot of people 

2435
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:21,480
knew that Amy's never killed a 
person with his dragon. 

2436
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:23,760
He never used his dragon for 
violence at all. 

2437
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:26,840
So when all these small 
rebellions broke out and Amy 

2438
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:29,920
sent no Dragons, not even not 
not just to not himself, he 

2439
01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:34,560
didn't deploy any dragon riders.
People got the message right. 

2440
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:37,920
They were like, he's just shy 
about using the Dragons. 

2441
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:40,920
But it wasn't the. 
Valyrian shyness to the risk of 

2442
01:55:40,920 --> 01:55:43,720
using them. 
This was actual shyness. 

2443
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:46,160
This was actual anxiety of of 
restraint. 

2444
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:47,480
Maybe he doesn't want to kill 
people. 

2445
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:49,240
Maybe he's a little bit of a 
pacifist. 

2446
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:49,840
Don't. 
We don't. 

2447
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:52,000
Exactly. 
Say, like, I understand maybe 

2448
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:54,800
his responsibility as a leader 
and especially in the context of

2449
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:58,440
this world and the wars and 
Dragons and fantasy adventure 

2450
01:55:58,440 --> 01:56:02,480
and everything, but in my mind, 
he's doing the right thing. 

2451
01:56:02,600 --> 01:56:05,240
The only reason we have any 
judgement on him is 'cause these

2452
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:07,200
other people are doing the wrong
thing. 

2453
01:56:07,360 --> 01:56:11,040
And our expectation for him to 
deal with people doing the wrong

2454
01:56:11,040 --> 01:56:12,960
thing is to go burn them to 
death. 

2455
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:16,320
It's I, I want him to be more 
heroic. 

2456
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:19,160
I wish we were talking. 
I was, I wish we weren't talking

2457
01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:22,200
about the his failures and not 
being more violent, you know? 

2458
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:25,400
But if he had. 
Everything else was failing and 

2459
01:56:25,400 --> 01:56:27,680
want you to be violent. 
That's how I see it, yeah. 

2460
01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:31,400
Yeah. 
And and he was unable to meet 

2461
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:35,720
that challenge. 
Meanwhile, Megor, who eventually

2462
01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:37,960
claimed Valerian, must have been
shaking his head in frustration.

2463
01:56:37,960 --> 01:56:40,680
He's like, I've got the big 
dragon. 

2464
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:43,800
I he. 
He this is a guy who saw a lot 

2465
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:46,000
fewer of the subtleties and 
intimidation and saw it as a 

2466
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:48,560
very straightforward thing and 
he was more than willing to do 

2467
01:56:48,560 --> 01:56:50,920
it right. 
But eventually Amy's and Megor 

2468
01:56:50,920 --> 01:56:54,200
had issues with each other. 
Megor took his brother's 

2469
01:56:54,200 --> 01:57:00,720
forbearance as opportunity. 
Took a second wife, maybe on 

2470
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:03,880
Vicenia's advice, his mom's 
advice, and this brought things 

2471
01:57:03,880 --> 01:57:07,920
to a head. 
Megor was exiled, which probably

2472
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:09,640
embroiled the Crown's enemies 
even more. 

2473
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:12,360
They're like, oh, the one guy 
that's actually capable of 

2474
01:57:12,360 --> 01:57:15,920
harming us has been exiled. 
Well, that just gave them more 

2475
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:19,240
license to do their dirty deeds.
So. 

2476
01:57:19,360 --> 01:57:22,520
But even with Fasenia there 
sticking around, 'cause she 

2477
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:23,680
didn't leave, she was still 
there. 

2478
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:26,040
People were afraid of her. 
But he continually projected 

2479
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:29,880
weakness, went against her 
advice, and these rebels kept 

2480
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:31,880
doing awful things. 
I mean, these aren't rebels just

2481
01:57:31,880 --> 01:57:34,120
fighting for independence. 
These are people like Aaron the 

2482
01:57:34,120 --> 01:57:38,280
Red that was just just a bandit,
basically a glorified Brig. 

2483
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:42,120
And there's he's not fostering 
any grand cause. 

2484
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:47,160
So yeah, so over time, more and 
more of these things happen, and

2485
01:57:47,160 --> 01:57:51,000
more and more of the time he 
refuses to do hardly anything. 

2486
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:53,440
Not just not send Dragons, he 
barely even sent armies. 

2487
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:57,080
Like what did the Lords, what 
did the the Warden of the South 

2488
01:57:57,080 --> 01:57:59,640
in the ward of the West, what 
did they do about these bandits?

2489
01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:02,040
So why isn't it them failing and
not Amy's you? 

2490
01:58:02,040 --> 01:58:04,480
Know well yeah, he didn't give 
them clear order like he on one 

2491
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:06,680
hand they should be doing it on 
their own but they kind of 

2492
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:08,000
waited for orders that never 
came. 

2493
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:08,960
Yeah. 
So you're right. 

2494
01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:11,080
He take, he's maybe taking a 
little too much blame here. 

2495
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:13,920
But. 
They also would have realized 

2496
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:15,080
that how long is this guy going 
to last? 

2497
01:58:15,080 --> 01:58:16,080
He's not going to be king 
forever. 

2498
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:18,880
He probably won't be king for 30
years like his father was. 

2499
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:21,400
So how long is this opportunity?
How this you got? 

2500
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:26,360
A weak king sees the advantage 
now before something changes. 

2501
01:58:26,480 --> 01:58:28,800
And yeah, something did change 
pretty quickly. 

2502
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:32,280
A good example of this, though, 
of this principle of taking an 

2503
01:58:32,280 --> 01:58:34,640
opportunity when you have a weak
king, you can maybe just say 

2504
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:36,360
sorry before you have any 
consequences. 

2505
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:38,400
Look at what the three sisters 
did during the conquest. 

2506
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:41,240
They declared they're some 
themselves independent of the 

2507
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:44,920
Seven Kingdoms entirely. 
No seven, no, no new Iron Throne

2508
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:47,080
for them, no rule by the veil 
either. 

2509
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:51,600
And then Veigar flew there and 
they backed down before a single

2510
01:58:51,600 --> 01:58:54,120
ship was burned. 
And This is why we suspect they 

2511
01:58:54,120 --> 01:58:56,040
had put a puppet ruler up 'cause
then they could punish that 

2512
01:58:56,040 --> 01:58:58,080
puppet ruler and say, look, we, 
we removed her. 

2513
01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:01,040
We're on your side. 
It was her all along. 

2514
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:03,640
You know, it's like, can we get 
away with this? 

2515
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:05,000
Let's do this. 
But it's like they put. 

2516
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:07,880
One toe into the Independence 
water, that toe is another 

2517
01:59:07,880 --> 01:59:11,520
person's toe, or rather another 
person's head or tongue, because

2518
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:14,360
she lost her tongue when she was
sent to the Silent Sisters. 

2519
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:18,840
That's Marla Sunderland, of 
course, so Amy's Rangers. 

2520
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:20,840
So there's probably a couple of 
those cases where they're like. 

2521
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:22,680
Well, we'll just apologize. 
We'll, we'll do everything we 

2522
01:59:22,680 --> 01:59:24,160
can. 
Then when Amy's finally, you 

2523
01:59:24,160 --> 01:59:26,840
know, if he, if he ever gets us 
cornered, we'll just apologize 

2524
01:59:26,840 --> 01:59:28,120
and bend the knee and that'll be
it. 

2525
01:59:28,120 --> 01:59:30,080
He's he's, he's reluctant to 
execute people. 

2526
01:59:30,080 --> 01:59:32,520
Sure. 
So it's it was a good gamble by 

2527
01:59:32,520 --> 01:59:35,320
some bad people, probably 
because it it did work. 

2528
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:36,800
That's what I mean by a good 
gamble. 

2529
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:40,480
Obviously it's not very ethical.
And this, by the way, is the 

2530
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:44,520
source for a lot of the theories
behind Vicenya's either 

2531
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:48,000
assisting her nephew's death or 
causing it outright 'cause she's

2532
01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:50,960
just like, we're losing it. 
We're losing the throne, we're 

2533
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:53,760
losing our reputation. 
The the fear that keeps everyone

2534
01:59:53,760 --> 01:59:55,640
in line. 
We're losing it that you're, 

2535
01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:57,720
you're establishing a a 
reputation. 

2536
01:59:58,160 --> 02:00:03,040
The opposite of what me and your
father tried to do. 

2537
02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:06,520
Even your deceased mother was on
board with that king Ainice. 

2538
02:00:06,520 --> 02:00:10,240
But anyway, on to Megor 
contrast. 

2539
02:00:10,760 --> 02:00:14,400
Huge contrast here. 
Night and day when there's one 

2540
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,120
king who was too reluctant to 
use force, and one that was way 

2541
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:20,720
too willing to use it. 
Got to find that middle ground. 

2542
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:22,880
Yeah, I got to find that middle 
ground. 

2543
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:27,360
You know, You know, when when 
Vicena and Megor turned their 

2544
02:00:27,360 --> 02:00:31,960
dragon S towards Old Town of the
Starry Sept, it was like, oh, 

2545
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:34,040
no, we surrender whatever you 
want. 

2546
02:00:34,920 --> 02:00:37,560
Just as like just like when 
Aegon himself declared war on 

2547
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:40,040
the seven kingdoms. 
This the Old Town and the starry

2548
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:44,760
step were like pass. 
Well, we bend the knee. 

2549
02:00:44,760 --> 02:00:46,080
Yeah. 
Oh, I had a dream. 

2550
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:48,520
Yeah. 
The gods told me it wasn't my 

2551
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:51,240
decision. 
Yeah, yeah, He he did a but even

2552
02:00:51,240 --> 02:00:54,440
Mego appeared maybe somewhat 
reluctant to go dragon versus 

2553
02:00:54,440 --> 02:00:56,320
dragon. 
There were times when like Reyna

2554
02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,280
didn't see to his authority and 
others just kind of were 

2555
02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:05,760
reluctant to like didn't come to
him or didn't obey him, but he 

2556
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:07,240
was reluctant to come to them 
either. 

2557
02:01:07,240 --> 02:01:09,040
He wanted to stay at the 
capitol, do his business. 

2558
02:01:09,040 --> 02:01:13,560
He had buildings to construct 
his hold fast and the dragon pit

2559
02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:17,320
and all these other things. 
So he kind of understood that at

2560
02:01:17,320 --> 02:01:19,880
maybe because he was a warrior, 
that stuff happens in battle. 

2561
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:21,600
You know, you shouldn't shirk 
from battle, but you don't 

2562
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:23,920
necessarily need to go seek it 
out either when it's dragon 

2563
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:26,440
versus dragon. 
Of course he did that when he 

2564
02:01:26,440 --> 02:01:29,760
sees the throne in the first. 
Place when Aegon the Uncrowned. 

2565
02:01:30,480 --> 02:01:34,600
Raised an army with the intent 
of fighting Valerian or fighting

2566
02:01:34,600 --> 02:01:39,240
Megor. 
This is when we got our war and 

2567
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:41,560
it wasn't really a contest at 
all though. 

2568
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:46,240
So Aegon the uncrowned good 
example of was he too proud to 

2569
02:01:46,240 --> 02:01:49,440
back down like this? 
Seems like a obviously bad idea.

2570
02:01:49,440 --> 02:01:52,000
You got to drag in the quarter 
the size of Valerian and you're 

2571
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:54,680
going to go after him? 
Not only is Valerian 

2572
02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:57,560
experienced, when Megor 
experienced, Aegon wasn't, 

2573
02:01:57,640 --> 02:02:00,120
Quicksilver wasn't. 
I just pointed out under Aenes 

2574
02:02:00,120 --> 02:02:03,120
who Quicksilver was born with no
war, no fighting. 

2575
02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:05,720
This was a dragon that had never
fought in a battle and he's 

2576
02:02:05,720 --> 02:02:09,760
going to go take on Valerian. 
There's some missing piece here.

2577
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:12,560
Maybe Aegon was a little insane.
There's that's a Targaryen 

2578
02:02:12,560 --> 02:02:16,120
thing. 
Maybe he read some books and 

2579
02:02:16,120 --> 02:02:19,200
read about smaller Dragons being
more maneuverable. 

2580
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:20,360
Maybe he thought he could pull 
it off. 

2581
02:02:20,360 --> 02:02:22,200
He could kill Megor and not kill
Valerian. 

2582
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:25,880
Anyway, all these things are 
possible. 

2583
02:02:26,120 --> 02:02:27,640
It's possible he thought he 
could do that. 

2584
02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:29,120
It's possible it could have been
successful. 

2585
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:31,960
We don't know. 
Here's what we do know, quote. 

2586
02:02:32,440 --> 02:02:37,200
15,000 men had joined the 
rebellion as Aegon the Uncrowned

2587
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:41,000
began his March across the 
Riverlands to stake his claim to

2588
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:45,720
the Iron Throne, led by the 
Prince himself on King Aenes's 

2589
02:02:45,720 --> 02:02:50,360
beloved dragon Quicksilver. 
Before declaring for the Prince 

2590
02:02:50,360 --> 02:02:54,600
of Dragonstone, they wished to 
be convinced he might prevail. 

2591
02:02:55,600 --> 02:02:59,440
For the first time since the 
Doom of Valyria, Dragon 

2592
02:02:59,440 --> 02:03:04,280
contended with Dragon in the Sky
even as battle was joined below.

2593
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:09,520
Quicksilver, 1/4 the size of 
Valerian, was no match for the 

2594
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:14,320
older, fiercer dragon, and her 
pale white fireballs were 

2595
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:19,280
engulfed and washed away in 
great gouts of black flame. 

2596
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:24,520
Screaming and smoking, the young
dragon plunged to Earth and 

2597
02:03:24,520 --> 02:03:27,000
Prince Aegon with her. 
So the Dragons never. 

2598
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:31,520
Got to grips with each other. 
We never had physical contact in

2599
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:32,960
the battle that we are told 
here. 

2600
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:37,040
It was all fire, which is maybe 
how more of them go than we 

2601
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:39,600
know. 
We don't have a lot of examples 

2602
02:03:39,600 --> 02:03:43,960
of dragon aerial combat, but. 
You can see here. 

2603
02:03:44,080 --> 02:03:47,040
Even looks like Aegon wasn't 
trying to get close which is 

2604
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:48,800
smart. 
Like don't get close to the 

2605
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:50,600
bigger dragon. 
He's trying to use fire to maybe

2606
02:03:50,600 --> 02:03:54,560
kill Megor and be done with it. 
But Valerian was up to that 

2607
02:03:54,560 --> 02:04:00,120
contest too with hotter fire and
enough to burn this dragon to 

2608
02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:02,560
death. 
It would no tooth, no tooth or 

2609
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:06,560
talons were ever involved. 
It was just purely the the. 

2610
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:09,280
Dragon Flame. 
I didn't suspect that Valerian 

2611
02:04:09,280 --> 02:04:12,800
has a a greater range. 
Yeah, maybe far from farther 

2612
02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:15,520
away, you know. 
Yeah, maybe maybe Aegon was was 

2613
02:04:15,520 --> 02:04:18,400
overconfident in maneuverability
and and thought, you know, like 

2614
02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:20,800
again, they couldn't have tested
these things in advance, you 

2615
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:23,960
know, like how could he have 
known so and maybe. 

2616
02:04:23,960 --> 02:04:25,120
That's how he talked people into
it. 

2617
02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:26,920
He's like, look, I'll be able to
beat Megor. 

2618
02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:28,600
He's slow. 
You know I'll be able to do 

2619
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:30,320
this. 
He must have 15,000 men were 

2620
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:31,480
following him. 
They were they? 

2621
02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:35,520
They clearly believed in his 
chances and they probably gave 

2622
02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:36,720
up. 
They gave up immediately 

2623
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:38,920
afterwards since this dragon was
killed and we're like, oh, that 

2624
02:04:38,920 --> 02:04:41,480
was quick. 
And there's that quote. 

2625
02:04:41,480 --> 02:04:46,880
That we were relying on to show 
that there hadn't been dragon 

2626
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:49,360
verse dragon combat during the 
time of the Targaryens of 

2627
02:04:49,360 --> 02:04:52,640
Dragonstone because it says the 
first time since the Doom 

2628
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:55,360
Dragons fighting each other or 
contending in the skies. 

2629
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:58,640
And so, yeah, Megor might have 
again, you see someone like 

2630
02:04:58,640 --> 02:05:00,280
Gregor Clegane, he's a, he's a 
dummy. 

2631
02:05:00,280 --> 02:05:02,200
Everybody points that out. 
But when it comes to combat, 

2632
02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:04,720
he's got some and he's not, he's
not entirely stupid. 

2633
02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:07,720
He understands sunlight and, you
know, like having the sun at 

2634
02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:12,280
your back and certain things 
about fear and morale and yeah, 

2635
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:15,680
Megor suicidal and. 
Psychopathic as he might have 

2636
02:05:15,680 --> 02:05:20,920
been, he had some sense of of 
preservation and strategy, so 

2637
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:23,000
those are things he probably 
wasn't stupid about. 

2638
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:24,800
Yeah. 
Use the use the ranged weapon. 

2639
02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:28,840
Don't get burned to death. 
Let's continue with the battle. 

2640
02:05:28,840 --> 02:05:32,640
There's another quote here that 
gets Sparks a little further 

2641
02:05:32,640 --> 02:05:33,600
discussion. 
Here it is. 

2642
02:05:34,360 --> 02:05:38,560
Amongst the dead were Lord Alan 
Tarbeck, Dennis Snow, the 

2643
02:05:38,560 --> 02:05:43,440
Bastard of Barrowton, Lord 
Ronald Vance, Sarah Willem 

2644
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:48,120
Whistler, Melanie Piper and 
three of her brothers, and the 

2645
02:05:48,120 --> 02:05:52,680
Prince of Dragonstone, Aegon the
Uncrowned of House Targaryen. 

2646
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:57,480
Would the addition of a second 
dragon to the Prince's host have

2647
02:05:57,480 --> 02:05:59,800
made a difference when battle 
was joined? 

2648
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:01,640
We don't know. 
We, we've theorized about this 

2649
02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:02,960
already. 
Like what difference would that 

2650
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:05,000
make? 
How much difference would it 

2651
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:06,440
make it? 
We, we, we got to feel like in 

2652
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:08,400
some cases it would totally make
a big difference. 

2653
02:06:08,440 --> 02:06:10,480
Maybe not in all cases. 
And the reason it's being asked 

2654
02:06:10,480 --> 02:06:14,360
here is that. 
Aegon's sister, wife Reyna on 

2655
02:06:14,360 --> 02:06:17,160
dream fire did not participate. 
And that's they're wondering, 

2656
02:06:17,160 --> 02:06:20,480
had she participated, maybe it 
would have gone differently. 

2657
02:06:20,480 --> 02:06:22,080
Maybe there was within two dead 
Dragons. 

2658
02:06:22,080 --> 02:06:23,800
Two dead Dragons. 
This is Blarian we're talking 

2659
02:06:23,800 --> 02:06:26,440
about. 
But maybe Blarian would have 

2660
02:06:26,440 --> 02:06:28,240
been severely. 
Harmed or could have changed a 

2661
02:06:28,240 --> 02:06:29,760
lot. 
Yeah, I think it would have 

2662
02:06:29,760 --> 02:06:33,040
definitely made a difference. 
I don't know if they necessarily

2663
02:06:33,040 --> 02:06:37,200
would have defeated Megor and 
Valerian, but I think they would

2664
02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:38,720
have. 
I think a second dragon. 

2665
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:41,440
They might not have defeated 
Valerian, but I think they would

2666
02:06:41,440 --> 02:06:43,320
have defeated Megor if that 
makes sense. 

2667
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:45,640
Probably at the expense of one 
or the other of them. 

2668
02:06:45,640 --> 02:06:49,440
I think 1 dragon and it's rider 
dies while the other one takes 

2669
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:50,720
out Megor. 
Absolutely. 

2670
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:53,680
So that may have been a question
Reyna asked herself the whole 

2671
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:55,040
rest of her life. 
She may have gone to her 

2672
02:06:55,040 --> 02:06:56,720
deathbed wondering that 
question. 

2673
02:06:57,240 --> 02:07:02,000
And she lived a long time now, 
and she lived past Megor. 

2674
02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:05,120
Megor didn't have a long reign, 
so she at least got to see him 

2675
02:07:05,960 --> 02:07:09,440
dead in the ground. 
And Megor the Cruel earned that 

2676
02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:13,200
nickname. 
He it wasn't exaggerated. 

2677
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:15,640
Him being stupid might be a 
little exaggerated. 

2678
02:07:15,640 --> 02:07:18,080
He did some stupid things, but 
he did some clever things too. 

2679
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:19,720
He kind of reminds me of Cersei 
in some ways. 

2680
02:07:19,720 --> 02:07:21,840
Like he when he gets angry, he 
gets real stupid. 

2681
02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:24,200
And he got angry a lot like 
Cersei. 

2682
02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:27,040
But he also. 
But like, Cersei did some pretty

2683
02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:30,200
clever things, some cunning 
things, and here's. 

2684
02:07:30,200 --> 02:07:35,040
One thing he did that was smart,
maybe at least they would rate 

2685
02:07:35,040 --> 02:07:38,480
it under this topic as smart. 
He didn't focus on Throne. 

2686
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:39,960
He wasn't concerned with the 
Iron Throne. 

2687
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:42,360
He was concerned with Valerian. 
He didn't claim a younger 

2688
02:07:42,360 --> 02:07:44,000
dragon. 
He didn't claim a hatchling. 

2689
02:07:44,160 --> 02:07:46,960
He was waiting. 
For valerian to be available. 

2690
02:07:47,080 --> 02:07:50,360
And then when he had Valerian, 
then the throne was easy to take

2691
02:07:50,520 --> 02:07:52,040
because he had the biggest 
dragon. 

2692
02:07:52,480 --> 02:07:55,200
So it's like focus on the means 
to take the the throne rather 

2693
02:07:55,200 --> 02:07:57,760
than taking the throne, because 
when then you can hold it right 

2694
02:07:57,760 --> 02:08:01,680
and you have Valerian and the 
throne, but one helps you hold 

2695
02:08:01,680 --> 02:08:04,400
the other. 
And a guy like Megor who sees 

2696
02:08:04,400 --> 02:08:07,160
things a lot more like 
straightforwardly, he's not a 

2697
02:08:07,160 --> 02:08:09,320
subtle guy. 
This makes sense to him, and he 

2698
02:08:09,320 --> 02:08:11,440
may have been encouraged in this
by his mother. 

2699
02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:14,520
Like have a dragon, have the big
dragon. 

2700
02:08:14,520 --> 02:08:15,760
This is where the source of our 
power. 

2701
02:08:15,760 --> 02:08:18,040
This is our, this is where This 
is why people fear us. 

2702
02:08:18,160 --> 02:08:20,720
Without these Dragons, we're 
just like everybody else with 

2703
02:08:20,720 --> 02:08:25,440
silver hair, you know, And the 
silver hair doesn't intimidate 

2704
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:27,920
anybody. 
The Dragons do, even when you 

2705
02:08:27,920 --> 02:08:29,960
don't use them. 
So he makes for an interesting 

2706
02:08:29,960 --> 02:08:33,520
case study because he kind of 
understood on a very basic level

2707
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:35,640
where the real power was the 
Iron Throne was the seat of 

2708
02:08:35,640 --> 02:08:38,720
power, but the real. 
Seat of power was the saddle of 

2709
02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:40,840
Bilarion. 
That's the Realty to because 

2710
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:42,840
that's what best enables you to 
take. 

2711
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:46,240
The iron Throne or to forge the.
Iron Throne in the 1st place, 

2712
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:47,560
which is what literally 
happened. 

2713
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:52,160
So he also kind of maybe 
understood that part of why it 

2714
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:55,160
will help him hold the throne is
that even another dragon coming 

2715
02:08:55,160 --> 02:08:57,400
after him, he's got a good 
chance to win that, which is a. 

2716
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:00,760
Very difficult thing to win 
without taking severe damage or 

2717
02:09:00,760 --> 02:09:03,880
even the rider surviving. 
He probably understood that. 

2718
02:09:04,560 --> 02:09:06,440
And this is a guy who had a chip
on his shoulder in the 1st 

2719
02:09:06,440 --> 02:09:07,960
place. 
He wasn't first born. 

2720
02:09:08,680 --> 02:09:10,920
He felt jilted a bit, he 
thought. 

2721
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:14,120
More capable of his brother. 
And who else feels that way? 

2722
02:09:14,200 --> 02:09:15,480
Let's. 
Think of the blacks and the 

2723
02:09:15,480 --> 02:09:17,800
greens. 
Prince Aymond of course also 

2724
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:19,720
feels he has a chip on his 
shoulder. 

2725
02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:22,360
He also isn't first born. 
He also feels more competent 

2726
02:09:22,360 --> 02:09:25,080
than his older brother. 
Lot in common. 

2727
02:09:25,080 --> 02:09:28,120
Plus, they also are the rider of
the largest. 

2728
02:09:28,120 --> 02:09:30,960
Dragon of their time. 
Yep. 

2729
02:09:31,400 --> 02:09:34,880
And yeah, Veigar has been the 
largest dragon in the realm for 

2730
02:09:34,880 --> 02:09:36,960
decades by the time Eamon 
claimed him, because Blaring 

2731
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:39,160
died in like the year what, 92 
or 93? 

2732
02:09:39,440 --> 02:09:41,760
But back to Megor for now. 
He got most of Westeros to see 

2733
02:09:41,760 --> 02:09:46,160
sense again in that the quick. 
Relatively historical period of 

2734
02:09:46,160 --> 02:09:49,840
5:00-ish years of Amy's being in
charge, where people forgot to 

2735
02:09:49,840 --> 02:09:52,520
be afraid of Dragons because no 
one was using them in a way 

2736
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:54,080
manner that would make you 
afraid of them. 

2737
02:09:54,480 --> 02:09:56,520
Megor restored that pretty fast.
Like all right. 

2738
02:09:56,520 --> 02:09:58,040
Yes, we should be afraid of the 
Dragons. 

2739
02:09:58,040 --> 02:09:59,400
We should be afraid of how 
they're used. 

2740
02:10:00,240 --> 02:10:01,120
One thing. 
That's one thing he 

2741
02:10:01,120 --> 02:10:07,080
accomplished. 
Except, except for the zealots. 

2742
02:10:07,080 --> 02:10:14,040
This the faith of the seven were
not down for bending the knee to

2743
02:10:14,040 --> 02:10:17,200
mega or or any dragon rider and 
violence be damned. 

2744
02:10:17,200 --> 02:10:18,680
It wasn't going to intimidate 
them. 

2745
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:20,040
That's the way of zealots, 
right? 

2746
02:10:20,040 --> 02:10:21,760
They're like, they're more 
worried about their the 

2747
02:10:21,760 --> 02:10:24,640
penalties in the afterlife than 
they are the penalties in the 

2748
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:26,960
current life. 
So they were willing to go up 

2749
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:29,800
against him in a manner that we 
suspect might have been 

2750
02:10:29,800 --> 02:10:32,200
reminiscent of the early wars of
the Faith and Andalos 'cause we 

2751
02:10:32,200 --> 02:10:33,440
talked about zealots there as 
well. 

2752
02:10:33,440 --> 02:10:35,280
They might have been willing to 
face some dragon flame. 

2753
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:37,160
Didn't help them in the long 
run. 

2754
02:10:37,160 --> 02:10:40,880
The lack of fear didn't win them
any. 

2755
02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:42,960
Well, many, many. 
Maybe they won some battles, but

2756
02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:45,600
they didn't have much success 
against Megor. 

2757
02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:47,760
I'm talking about maybe they had
some success back in their 

2758
02:10:47,760 --> 02:10:50,280
homeland, but in the long run, 
of course it didn't work. 

2759
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:53,720
Kicked off the end all 
migrations to Westeros cause of 

2760
02:10:53,720 --> 02:10:56,560
how bad it was. 
Going This must have sent quite 

2761
02:10:56,560 --> 02:10:58,960
the message too. 
Even the Faith. 

2762
02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:01,480
The Faith will stand up to 
Megor, but they can't win. 

2763
02:11:01,640 --> 02:11:03,520
Even when you're just like, 
locked in. 

2764
02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:04,680
Even with. 
God on your. 

2765
02:11:04,680 --> 02:11:09,080
Side you're still lost. 
That's that's the exactly. 

2766
02:11:09,080 --> 02:11:12,840
The kind of message that Vicenia
and Megor valued, like, yeah, 

2767
02:11:13,040 --> 02:11:14,440
they came at us with everything 
they had. 

2768
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:16,520
And they still lost. 
Perfect. 

2769
02:11:17,480 --> 02:11:19,360
That's exactly what we wanted to
demonstrate. 

2770
02:11:19,920 --> 02:11:23,200
Like see, don't try in the 
future 'cause this is what 

2771
02:11:23,200 --> 02:11:25,240
happens. 
They needed someone to try to 

2772
02:11:25,240 --> 02:11:27,000
prove. 
That it was hopeless and. 

2773
02:11:27,520 --> 02:11:31,520
Yeah, it didn't go very well. 
Is this something we'll see in 

2774
02:11:31,520 --> 02:11:33,440
the Song of Ice and Fire? 
Will we see? 

2775
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:38,680
I mean, the undead will be 
fearless against any foe, but 

2776
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:42,520
will the Dothraki, like they'll 
be the the dragon will be on 

2777
02:11:42,520 --> 02:11:47,280
their side when Danny fight, but
not when the Dragons, not the 

2778
02:11:47,280 --> 02:11:48,880
Dothraki who were trying to 
capture Danny. 

2779
02:11:48,880 --> 02:11:51,200
So that's that's a different 
matter. 

2780
02:11:51,200 --> 02:11:52,680
Like will they be fearless 
against that? 

2781
02:11:52,680 --> 02:11:54,760
I mean, it's such a big part of 
their culture to not show fear, 

2782
02:11:54,760 --> 02:11:56,840
but. 
This is the ultimate test. 

2783
02:11:57,280 --> 02:12:01,520
Flying fire breathing monster 
that your arrows seem to be 

2784
02:12:01,520 --> 02:12:04,000
useless against. 
Now Sean, you had earlier you 

2785
02:12:04,000 --> 02:12:07,280
brought up the size of Valerian 
and I liked your theory on maybe

2786
02:12:07,280 --> 02:12:10,200
they wanted to have a generation
of Dragons that were way far 

2787
02:12:10,200 --> 02:12:11,480
ahead of the others so that they
would. 

2788
02:12:11,480 --> 02:12:15,760
Yes there'd be other Dragons, 
but they would have 50 years of 

2789
02:12:15,760 --> 02:12:18,560
size or some or the equivalent 
on the new ones. 

2790
02:12:19,320 --> 02:12:21,920
Megor is responsible for the 
dragon pit. 

2791
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:25,480
The dragon pit kept Dragons from
growing to their maximum size. 

2792
02:12:25,480 --> 02:12:28,320
It's interesting that he might 
have done that on purpose. 

2793
02:12:28,520 --> 02:12:31,600
He's already got the biggest 
dragon, now I make sure no one 

2794
02:12:31,600 --> 02:12:33,680
ever has one as big as me. 
Interesting. 

2795
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:35,360
Maybe that was part of his angle
do. 

2796
02:12:35,360 --> 02:12:37,960
You think he realized the dragon
pit would have that effect? 

2797
02:12:37,960 --> 02:12:38,320
I don't. 
Know. 

2798
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:40,160
I don't. 
I don't. 

2799
02:12:40,160 --> 02:12:41,680
Yeah. 
We don't know if they knew it 

2800
02:12:41,680 --> 02:12:43,200
would limit growth, but it might
have. 

2801
02:12:43,320 --> 02:12:45,600
It might be something in the 
document, it might be in the 

2802
02:12:45,600 --> 02:12:47,040
literature. 
That might be something the 

2803
02:12:47,040 --> 02:12:48,800
Valyrians figured out. 
You would think the Valyrians 

2804
02:12:48,800 --> 02:12:51,080
would figure that out. 
It's a pretty basic. 

2805
02:12:51,560 --> 02:12:54,600
You know, like they're, they're 
breeding and growing Dragons for

2806
02:12:54,600 --> 02:12:56,440
eons. 
You'd think they'd noticed that 

2807
02:12:56,440 --> 02:12:59,160
one's grown inside versus 
outside. 

2808
02:12:59,320 --> 02:13:01,800
There's differences. 
They had a lot of time to notice

2809
02:13:01,800 --> 02:13:03,560
that. 
I wonder if maybe even someone 

2810
02:13:03,560 --> 02:13:06,520
else figured that out but didn't
even tell Megor. 

2811
02:13:06,520 --> 02:13:08,360
They'd just hey, let's build a 
dragon, you know? 

2812
02:13:08,360 --> 02:13:11,560
Maybe they had this motive of 
limiting the growth of Dragons, 

2813
02:13:11,600 --> 02:13:13,760
but didn't necessarily let Megor
or anyone know that. 

2814
02:13:13,920 --> 02:13:16,400
Yeah, Yeah, that's a good point.
It's it's it's. 

2815
02:13:16,440 --> 02:13:18,080
Entirely possible. 
So I wonder about that. 

2816
02:13:18,080 --> 02:13:20,400
I wonder if there was an angle 
this because yeah, Megor maybe 

2817
02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:21,840
not have noticed that, but maybe
Vicenya did. 

2818
02:13:21,840 --> 02:13:24,280
Maybe Vicenya noticed that 
because I would. 

2819
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:26,520
You can put things past Megor 
that are harder to put past 

2820
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:29,760
Vicenya, but they may not have 
had that knowledge. 

2821
02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:31,320
That may be another piece of 
lost knowledge. 

2822
02:13:31,320 --> 02:13:33,920
Like maybe they just yeah, it 
might have been something that 

2823
02:13:33,920 --> 02:13:36,200
was too so obvious back in the 
day that they it wasn't written 

2824
02:13:36,200 --> 02:13:37,760
down anymore. 
I know. 

2825
02:13:37,760 --> 02:13:40,800
Remember I think we brought this
up before on the show Roman 

2826
02:13:40,800 --> 02:13:43,080
concrete. 
They just the ingredients called

2827
02:13:43,080 --> 02:13:45,200
for water. 
It was seawater. 

2828
02:13:45,200 --> 02:13:46,680
They didn't bother to write that
down 'cause they're like, of 

2829
02:13:46,680 --> 02:13:48,960
course it's seawater. 
They didn't that that that why? 

2830
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:50,360
Would we use good drinking 
water? 

2831
02:13:50,520 --> 02:13:52,680
Yeah, that knowledge was lost 
'cause it was, it seemed too 

2832
02:13:52,680 --> 02:13:53,640
obvious. 
This is a good example. 

2833
02:13:53,640 --> 02:13:56,360
Maybe the Valyrian just stopped 
writing that down 'cause it was 

2834
02:13:56,360 --> 02:13:57,920
so obvious, like. 
Of course if. 

2835
02:13:57,920 --> 02:13:59,560
You put them in a small 
building, they won't grow to 

2836
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:01,960
their full size. 
That does seem kind of obvious 

2837
02:14:02,480 --> 02:14:04,800
when you lay it out like that. 
I mean, pretty much any animal, 

2838
02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:06,280
not that's not true. 
There are some animals that 

2839
02:14:06,280 --> 02:14:08,160
don't work like that. 
But like, maybe that's obvious 

2840
02:14:08,160 --> 02:14:10,680
to me, 'cause like, I've had 
aquariums my whole life, but. 

2841
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:14,680
Like you get fish will 
definitely something most 

2842
02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:18,600
animals will not grow to a size 
that would trap them in their 

2843
02:14:18,600 --> 02:14:20,400
enclosure. 
You know, there's also the idea 

2844
02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:23,800
that even if something is quote 
UN quote obvious, the the the 

2845
02:14:23,800 --> 02:14:26,760
concept of the principle might 
be obvious, but the details 

2846
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:28,560
might not be obvious or or 
known. 

2847
02:14:28,560 --> 02:14:34,520
Even humans, for even 
prehistorical humans, even 

2848
02:14:34,520 --> 02:14:38,560
animals understand on some level
gravity, yes, but it's really 

2849
02:14:38,840 --> 02:14:41,800
recent that we actually 
understood the details of 

2850
02:14:41,800 --> 02:14:44,040
gravity, the rate of 
acceleration and what cause all 

2851
02:14:44,040 --> 02:14:47,400
the, you know, the the 
mathematics behind it isn't 

2852
02:14:47,400 --> 02:14:48,880
obvious. 
Does that make sense? 

2853
02:14:49,240 --> 02:14:53,520
And so maybe dragon Lords or 
even Megor understood that a 

2854
02:14:53,520 --> 02:14:56,800
dragon pit limits how big or how
quick a dragon can grow. 

2855
02:14:56,800 --> 02:15:00,760
But how much what? 
What is the rate of growth, what

2856
02:15:00,760 --> 02:15:03,040
is the limit of growth, 
etcetera, that that might not 

2857
02:15:03,040 --> 02:15:05,920
have been exactly known? 
Though he focused on Valerian 

2858
02:15:05,920 --> 02:15:09,360
rather than the Iron Throne. 
As we said, Megor died on the 

2859
02:15:09,360 --> 02:15:12,160
throne, not in the saddle, which
goes to show which one truly 

2860
02:15:12,160 --> 02:15:14,720
gave him power, at least the 
kind he most relished in. 

2861
02:15:14,720 --> 02:15:17,320
It would have been a lot harder 
to kill him in the saddle, but 

2862
02:15:17,320 --> 02:15:19,320
what's he going to do, stay in 
the saddle 24/7? 

2863
02:15:19,920 --> 02:15:23,800
Got to get off sometime bro. 
So before the other kings 

2864
02:15:23,800 --> 02:15:26,720
though, let's take a look at a 
great quote involving Princess 

2865
02:15:26,720 --> 02:15:32,560
Reyna, who existed during and 
after the time of Megor and 

2866
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:34,080
before. 
Well not before. 

2867
02:15:34,760 --> 02:15:37,960
Before he was a king, but she 
wasn't older than him is my 

2868
02:15:37,960 --> 02:15:39,960
point. 
She had married Aegon, her 

2869
02:15:39,960 --> 02:15:43,600
brother that was killed and she 
was the oldest, though she was 

2870
02:15:43,600 --> 02:15:45,480
older than him and she was 
writer of Dream Fire. 

2871
02:15:46,000 --> 02:15:47,240
For a while she lived on Fair 
Isle. 

2872
02:15:47,240 --> 02:15:49,880
Remember we talked about how she
was kind of in fear of maybe him

2873
02:15:49,880 --> 02:15:51,160
coming for her. 
He never did. 

2874
02:15:51,440 --> 02:15:54,800
Eventually, though, the Lord 
Farman that had taken her in 

2875
02:15:54,800 --> 02:15:59,080
died and the son took over and 
he wasn't as a big a fan of her.

2876
02:15:59,720 --> 02:16:02,280
He didn't like her or the 
relationship with her sister. 

2877
02:16:02,440 --> 02:16:03,760
And this is what happened. 
Quote. 

2878
02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:07,920
You are not welcome here. 
Take your dragon with you and 

2879
02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:10,520
your friends and my little 
brother who would surely piss 

2880
02:16:10,520 --> 02:16:12,280
his breeches if you were made to
stay. 

2881
02:16:12,920 --> 02:16:14,640
Do not presume to take my 
sister. 

2882
02:16:14,960 --> 02:16:18,760
She will remain here, and she 
will be wed to a man of my 

2883
02:16:18,760 --> 02:16:22,120
choosing. 
Franklin Farman did not lack for

2884
02:16:22,120 --> 02:16:26,400
courage, as Maester Smike wrote 
in a letter to the Citadel. 

2885
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:31,040
He did lack for sense, however, 
and in that moment he did not 

2886
02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:34,080
seem to realize how close he 
stood to death. 

2887
02:16:34,879 --> 02:16:38,280
I could see the fire in her 
eyes, the maester said, and for 

2888
02:16:38,280 --> 02:16:42,920
a moment I could see Fair Castle
burning, the white towers 

2889
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:47,320
blackening and collapsing into 
the sea as flames lept from 

2890
02:16:47,320 --> 02:16:51,799
every window and the dragon 
wheeled about again and again. 

2891
02:16:52,200 --> 02:16:56,040
The new Lord Farman didn't know 
the lessons that apparently this

2892
02:16:56,040 --> 02:16:59,160
Maester Smike. 
Did Smike by the way, what kind 

2893
02:16:59,160 --> 02:17:02,959
of name is that? 
But Lorena did leave in peace. 

2894
02:17:02,959 --> 02:17:06,280
She didn't. 
Reduce fair castle to a 

2895
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:12,280
blackened, collapsed heap. 
But this is exactly the fear 

2896
02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:16,280
that was inspired by Aegon and 
Meghor and others that causes 

2897
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:18,440
people to think twice when 
they're dealing with the dragon 

2898
02:17:18,440 --> 02:17:20,959
rider. 
Even when the dragon is outside 

2899
02:17:20,959 --> 02:17:22,879
and the the woman is there kind 
of by herself. 

2900
02:17:22,879 --> 02:17:26,400
And what's she going to do? 
Yell for the dragon? 

2901
02:17:26,400 --> 02:17:28,840
You know, it's not. 
It doesn't quite work that way. 

2902
02:17:28,840 --> 02:17:31,719
There's some connection between 
the dragon and dragon rider. 

2903
02:17:31,719 --> 02:17:36,040
The bond is a discussion for 
another day, but it just goes to

2904
02:17:36,040 --> 02:17:37,840
show like you were you're afraid
of that person. 

2905
02:17:37,840 --> 02:17:40,879
It makes sense this this guy is 
shown is is described as being 

2906
02:17:40,879 --> 02:17:42,840
foolish for pushing her like 
that even though. 

2907
02:17:42,879 --> 02:17:47,240
He didn't go too far. 
He, she didn't burn his castle. 

2908
02:17:47,240 --> 02:17:49,200
He said what he said, which 
maybe should have been more 

2909
02:17:49,200 --> 02:17:52,959
diplomatic about it, but she 
didn't, you know, kill him. 

2910
02:17:53,559 --> 02:17:55,719
It might have been a coin toss. 
Though it might have been. 

2911
02:17:55,760 --> 02:17:57,280
It might have been closer than 
he thought. 

2912
02:17:57,280 --> 02:18:00,959
Yeah, the Maesters seems to 
think that it was a close run 

2913
02:18:00,959 --> 02:18:02,520
thing. 
Maybe not, but that's that's the

2914
02:18:02,520 --> 02:18:04,080
point, right? 
That goes to show you don't want

2915
02:18:04,080 --> 02:18:05,440
to test them. 
You don't want to see, you don't

2916
02:18:05,440 --> 02:18:06,320
want to get right up to that 
line. 

2917
02:18:06,320 --> 02:18:07,760
You want to get nowhere near 
that line. 

2918
02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:10,240
Like she almost burned the whole
castle. 

2919
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:11,520
You don't even get close. 
To that you know. 

2920
02:18:11,879 --> 02:18:13,639
What? 
I mean like no, she never even, 

2921
02:18:13,639 --> 02:18:16,360
she never even considered 
burning our castle down. 

2922
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:19,200
That means we did it right. 
While Speaking of Reyna, we 

2923
02:18:19,200 --> 02:18:21,280
should mention that she spent 
time with the Lannisters who 

2924
02:18:21,280 --> 02:18:24,760
tried to get eggs from her. 
They wanted eggs to make 

2925
02:18:24,760 --> 02:18:27,200
themselves. 
The new Valyria or something 

2926
02:18:27,200 --> 02:18:30,000
like that, a new like, will 
there be multiple dragon rider 

2927
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:33,320
families in Westeros? 
Will these powerful families 

2928
02:18:33,320 --> 02:18:36,360
have Dragons of their own? 
Those who cannot control the 

2929
02:18:36,360 --> 02:18:39,760
power of Dragons fear it. 
Those who can control it lust 

2930
02:18:39,760 --> 02:18:41,360
for it. 
And that's the difference here, 

2931
02:18:41,360 --> 02:18:45,480
because at Fair Isle. 
They were scared of dream fire 

2932
02:18:45,480 --> 02:18:47,000
hatching eggs. 
They were like, Oh no, they'll 

2933
02:18:47,000 --> 02:18:49,480
she'll hatch eggs and they'll be
Dragons everywhere and they'll 

2934
02:18:49,480 --> 02:18:52,760
be eating our castles and 
killing our people and stealing 

2935
02:18:52,760 --> 02:18:54,600
our sheep and our women and our 
children. 

2936
02:18:54,680 --> 02:18:56,680
The Lannisters are like, that's 
for us. 

2937
02:18:56,680 --> 02:18:58,879
We want to take that so it's 
night and day. 

2938
02:18:58,879 --> 02:19:01,520
One is afraid of it, the other 
ones to control it. 

2939
02:19:01,719 --> 02:19:05,000
Had this happened, had the 
Lannisters gotten eggs and 

2940
02:19:05,000 --> 02:19:08,080
hatched them and learned to ride
Dragons, that might have caused 

2941
02:19:08,080 --> 02:19:12,639
war. 
Jeharis has gentle as he was 

2942
02:19:12,639 --> 02:19:14,360
was. 
Absolutely willing to go to the 

2943
02:19:14,360 --> 02:19:17,120
mat was actually willing to go 
to war over another family 

2944
02:19:17,120 --> 02:19:19,520
getting dragon eggs. 
He might have unleashed 

2945
02:19:19,520 --> 02:19:22,200
Vermathore on Casterly Rock, 
which would have been something 

2946
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:24,879
because Vicena was even like I 
don't want that. 

2947
02:19:24,959 --> 02:19:29,000
That's that looks tough. 
When Alyssa fireman were still 

2948
02:19:29,000 --> 02:19:33,160
on Fireman's here stole three 
dragon eggs to Harris declared 

2949
02:19:33,680 --> 02:19:36,559
we'll have to go out and kill 
any hatchlings born anywhere in 

2950
02:19:36,559 --> 02:19:38,320
the world. 
Doesn't matter where they're 

2951
02:19:38,320 --> 02:19:41,080
born, doesn't matter who has 
them, doesn't matter what 

2952
02:19:41,080 --> 02:19:43,520
political fallout it causes, 
doesn't matter who we have to 

2953
02:19:43,520 --> 02:19:46,240
burn. 
We are not allowing a new 

2954
02:19:46,240 --> 02:19:48,760
Valyria to rise. 
He he said, quote, I will not 

2955
02:19:48,760 --> 02:19:51,560
allow Valyria to rise again. 
Imagine what the triarchs of 

2956
02:19:51,560 --> 02:19:55,120
Volantis would do with Dragons. 
He's not wrong. 

2957
02:19:55,320 --> 02:19:58,400
It's a it's a tough question. 
It's like, do you have the right

2958
02:19:58,400 --> 02:20:01,720
to police the world like that? 
It's almost irrelevant whether 

2959
02:20:01,720 --> 02:20:03,360
he does or not. 
He's going to do it. 

2960
02:20:04,600 --> 02:20:06,880
He might say, I don't, but I'm 
going to like, I don't, I 

2961
02:20:06,880 --> 02:20:08,680
shouldn't have that, right? 
But I'm, I'm not going to allow 

2962
02:20:08,680 --> 02:20:10,680
that to happen to the world 
again, which is kind of like 

2963
02:20:10,920 --> 02:20:13,120
it's kind of honorable. 
He's like, yeah, my ancestors 

2964
02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:15,440
were horrible. 
Look what they did with draconic

2965
02:20:15,440 --> 02:20:17,560
power around the world. 
I'm going to be a decent king, 

2966
02:20:17,840 --> 02:20:19,920
maybe because he's he's the guy 
kind of the guy you're talking 

2967
02:20:19,920 --> 02:20:21,160
about, Sean. 
Like this is when you have a 

2968
02:20:21,160 --> 02:20:23,960
decent guy that's not going to 
overwhelm people, not shove it 

2969
02:20:23,960 --> 02:20:27,400
in people's faces, not go off 
conquering, not burn people to 

2970
02:20:27,400 --> 02:20:29,880
death unless he absolutely has 
to. 

2971
02:20:29,920 --> 02:20:32,360
But he can't trust anyone else 
to be that way. 

2972
02:20:32,440 --> 02:20:33,640
Right. 
And he knows the world is an 

2973
02:20:33,640 --> 02:20:35,080
evil place. 
Yeah. 

2974
02:20:35,440 --> 02:20:37,760
He knows the world is an evil 
place full of violent, ambitious

2975
02:20:37,760 --> 02:20:40,720
people that if they got their 
hands on, just like there's 

2976
02:20:40,720 --> 02:20:43,480
certain people in this world, if
they got nuclear power, it would

2977
02:20:43,480 --> 02:20:44,040
be. 
Horrible. 

2978
02:20:44,280 --> 02:20:49,840
And there's a lot of Cias and 
KGBS and Mossads and agencies 

2979
02:20:49,840 --> 02:20:53,080
all around the world that are 
exactly trying to stop nukes 

2980
02:20:53,080 --> 02:20:56,120
from falling into those hands. 
And it's a different thing as 

2981
02:20:56,120 --> 02:20:57,880
this 'cause this is like a 
frontal assault, Like we will 

2982
02:20:57,880 --> 02:21:00,240
take our Dragons and bomb anyone
who who has that. 

2983
02:21:00,240 --> 02:21:02,600
It's not, we won't assassinate 
them 'cause they got to kill the

2984
02:21:02,600 --> 02:21:04,080
dragon too. 
They got to kill the hatchling. 

2985
02:21:05,000 --> 02:21:06,520
It's kind of similar to the 
slavers, right? 

2986
02:21:07,160 --> 02:21:11,080
The slavers that Danny tricked 
into thinking she was going to 

2987
02:21:11,080 --> 02:21:12,560
sell an egg. 
Of course she wasn't going to do

2988
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:14,120
that. 
They should have realized it was

2989
02:21:14,120 --> 02:21:15,960
a trick. 
But they were too blind to their

2990
02:21:15,960 --> 02:21:18,040
ambition, too blind to their 
lust, too blind to thousands of 

2991
02:21:18,040 --> 02:21:21,120
years of being subjugated by 
their ancestors, being 

2992
02:21:21,120 --> 02:21:23,800
subjugated by these very beasts.
Barristan knew the lesson. 

2993
02:21:24,240 --> 02:21:26,680
He was like, don't do that. 
This is the one thing that makes

2994
02:21:26,680 --> 02:21:28,640
you powerful. 
He just wasn't thinking on 

2995
02:21:28,640 --> 02:21:30,120
Daniel's level. 
He should have figured out that 

2996
02:21:30,120 --> 02:21:31,880
it was like, you just didn't 
give her enough credit. 

2997
02:21:31,880 --> 02:21:34,000
Like, if she's a 13 year old 
girl, she's not pulling off some

2998
02:21:34,000 --> 02:21:35,920
grand scheme here. 
Yeah, she is. 

2999
02:21:36,040 --> 02:21:38,040
Yeah, she is. 
That's exactly what she's doing.

3000
02:21:39,120 --> 02:21:41,080
Yeah, let's let's just wrap this
up real quick. 

3001
02:21:41,080 --> 02:21:44,320
We've got only a few more points
here and it's gone a little 

3002
02:21:44,320 --> 02:21:47,240
long, but we'll we'll talk real 
quickly about Harris and Viserus

3003
02:21:47,240 --> 02:21:48,760
a bit more and, and say that 
and, and. 

3004
02:21:48,760 --> 02:21:51,200
Leave it there. 
But Jairus was the probably 

3005
02:21:51,200 --> 02:21:53,200
mastered just better than 
anyone, even better than Aegon. 

3006
02:21:53,200 --> 02:21:56,120
The implied threat. 
He didn't have to rub it in your

3007
02:21:56,120 --> 02:21:58,280
face. 
Shows you respect. 

3008
02:21:58,280 --> 02:22:00,480
Doesn't doesn't take it to the 
point of humiliation. 

3009
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:02,320
You're intimidated. 
You're not humiliated. 

3010
02:22:02,320 --> 02:22:05,760
It's a fine line. 
Magor wasn't was intimidating to

3011
02:22:05,760 --> 02:22:08,920
the point of humiliation to the 
point of just overbearing. 

3012
02:22:08,920 --> 02:22:12,400
Anis was was weak. 
Aegon was the Conqueror. 

3013
02:22:12,400 --> 02:22:14,520
So it's just different with him.
He was the guy that started it 

3014
02:22:14,520 --> 02:22:16,240
all and he's just in a different
category. 

3015
02:22:16,520 --> 02:22:21,000
Jairus found that fine line. 
His wife Shirley was a big part 

3016
02:22:21,000 --> 02:22:24,240
of that 'cause she was great at 
that, great at conciliation. 

3017
02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:27,120
You know, he got the title, but 
she was clearly really good at 

3018
02:22:27,120 --> 02:22:28,360
it too. 
And. 

3019
02:22:28,640 --> 02:22:31,840
On that he did a good job, but 
the dragon population? 

3020
02:22:31,840 --> 02:22:34,680
Just exploded under him and that
might have been a bad idea. 

3021
02:22:34,720 --> 02:22:37,320
Well, maybe the the targands and
Dragons might have had the right

3022
02:22:37,320 --> 02:22:39,080
idea keeping the dragon 
population small. 

3023
02:22:39,320 --> 02:22:41,520
But it's hard to tell your kids 
you can't have Dragons, right? 

3024
02:22:42,440 --> 02:22:44,880
You buy your eldest kid a car 
and you don't buy your smallest 

3025
02:22:44,880 --> 02:22:46,280
kid a car. 
Like, what is that, right? 

3026
02:22:46,840 --> 02:22:48,480
Obviously it's not the right 
analogy. 

3027
02:22:48,800 --> 02:22:50,240
Do what I say, not what I do, 
yeah. 

3028
02:22:50,920 --> 02:22:53,040
But also the upkeep thing's no 
longer an issue. 

3029
02:22:53,040 --> 02:22:55,000
Like they're right now are 
established. 

3030
02:22:55,000 --> 02:22:56,640
They can have all the money 
isn't a problem. 

3031
02:22:56,640 --> 02:23:00,560
So I don't know, maybe this is 
when they just lost sight of 

3032
02:23:00,560 --> 02:23:02,600
some of the important things. 
They they thought, oh, this is a

3033
02:23:02,600 --> 02:23:04,640
different thing. 
This isn't Valyria, we have a 

3034
02:23:04,640 --> 02:23:06,320
throne. 
Everything's different. 

3035
02:23:06,520 --> 02:23:09,440
That might have been a naive 
thinking dragon pit is built. 

3036
02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:11,640
They might have thought they had
things more under control, might

3037
02:23:11,640 --> 02:23:14,680
have looked good, Jerry said. 
And that's that's the message I 

3038
02:23:14,680 --> 02:23:18,840
started this episode with Peace.
Occasionally breeds complacency 

3039
02:23:18,840 --> 02:23:21,600
and you forget why peace is 
worth fighting for in the 1st 

3040
02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:24,560
place. 
And as solid as Jeharis was, 

3041
02:23:24,560 --> 02:23:27,960
Viserys was pretty lax. 
Allowed a lot of these 

3042
02:23:27,960 --> 02:23:30,320
conditions to. 
He didn't create them, but he 

3043
02:23:30,320 --> 02:23:32,520
allowed them to foment and and 
get worse. 

3044
02:23:32,800 --> 02:23:36,440
And yeah there's a few other 
examples that happened during 

3045
02:23:36,440 --> 02:23:38,160
Jeharis reign. 
There was a couple times where. 

3046
02:23:38,640 --> 02:23:41,040
You remember the example. 
Of Prince Morion, where he tried

3047
02:23:41,040 --> 02:23:43,640
to get a fleet and invade the 
Stormlands and he was loud about

3048
02:23:43,640 --> 02:23:47,120
it. 
And then Jeharis just took Eamon

3049
02:23:47,280 --> 02:23:50,480
and Balon and they burned those 
ships. 

3050
02:23:50,640 --> 02:23:53,600
And that's essentially where 
some of those Dragons got their 

3051
02:23:53,600 --> 02:23:55,960
first battle experience. 
That was Vermothor's first time 

3052
02:23:55,960 --> 02:24:00,960
in war, as well as Karaxis and 
not Vegar. 

3053
02:24:00,960 --> 02:24:02,200
Vegar. 
I've been to war before, but 

3054
02:24:02,840 --> 02:24:05,520
good to keep fresh. 
And of course, during Viserys's 

3055
02:24:05,520 --> 02:24:07,040
reign, there were those wars in 
the step stones. 

3056
02:24:07,240 --> 02:24:11,840
Those were a constant thing, but
those were not really as an 

3057
02:24:11,840 --> 02:24:14,080
example of where the people of 
West Rose didn't feel the pinch.

3058
02:24:14,480 --> 02:24:16,800
You know, like it was a war in 
another theater. 

3059
02:24:16,800 --> 02:24:19,720
It wasn't on the mainland. 
The Dragons were as very 

3060
02:24:19,720 --> 02:24:22,480
effective versus ships, but they
weren't as effective in the. 

3061
02:24:22,480 --> 02:24:24,640
Island to island. 
Combat where there are caves to 

3062
02:24:24,640 --> 02:24:26,640
hide in. 
Now this is something we want to

3063
02:24:26,640 --> 02:24:30,000
go into detail in our Step 
Stones episode and rather than 

3064
02:24:30,000 --> 02:24:34,040
describe it again, here's a 
great quote from Prince Damon 

3065
02:24:34,040 --> 02:24:35,440
himself. 
Quote. 

3066
02:24:35,640 --> 02:24:37,840
And the step stones. 
My enemies learned to run and 

3067
02:24:37,840 --> 02:24:41,240
hide when they saw Cracksy's 
wings or hurt his roar, but they

3068
02:24:41,240 --> 02:24:44,800
had no Dragons of their own. 
It is no easy thing for a man to

3069
02:24:44,800 --> 02:24:48,040
be a dragon Slayer, but Dragons 
can kill Dragons. 

3070
02:24:48,040 --> 02:24:51,280
And have any maester who has 
ever studied the history of 

3071
02:24:51,280 --> 02:24:54,960
Elyria can tell you that I will 
not throw our Dragons against 

3072
02:24:54,960 --> 02:24:57,880
the usurpers unless I have no 
other choice. 

3073
02:24:58,400 --> 02:25:01,040
There are other ways to use 
them, better ways. 

3074
02:25:01,480 --> 02:25:06,840
The problem is both sides have 
to understand that Damon 

3075
02:25:06,840 --> 02:25:08,560
understands this. 
He's. 

3076
02:25:08,560 --> 02:25:11,640
A man who was. 
Read his history, he's fought on

3077
02:25:11,640 --> 02:25:14,640
dragon back before. 
He has these concepts down. 

3078
02:25:15,320 --> 02:25:19,560
But the Greens don't have that. 
They don't know that you 

3079
02:25:19,560 --> 02:25:23,320
shouldn't do this. 
They don't have this level of of

3080
02:25:23,320 --> 02:25:24,240
knowledge. 
They don't. 

3081
02:25:24,280 --> 02:25:28,160
All the dragon riders on that 
side are young and experienced, 

3082
02:25:28,480 --> 02:25:34,200
cocky if not arrogant, if not a 
little borderline psycho. 

3083
02:25:34,640 --> 02:25:39,040
Maybe in Amon's case. 
He's the one, and maybe he could

3084
02:25:39,040 --> 02:25:41,520
have, should have had some 
experience to realize what was 

3085
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:43,920
about to happen here. 
It might be Ayman might be the 

3086
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:46,200
one who most needed to learn a 
few lessons. 

3087
02:25:46,400 --> 02:25:48,720
Don't use dragon verse dragon 
unless you must and he might be 

3088
02:25:48,720 --> 02:25:51,320
the one be like, yeah, but I 
have the big dragon. 

3089
02:25:51,320 --> 02:25:54,640
I'm the exception. 
I can do this cause I've got the

3090
02:25:54,640 --> 02:25:57,080
the huge size advantage He's. 
Wrong. 

3091
02:25:57,520 --> 02:26:02,040
It's not quite that simple. 
It is if he's in Arax's case, it

3092
02:26:02,040 --> 02:26:05,120
looked like it was true, but it 
might not always go that way. 

3093
02:26:05,120 --> 02:26:06,800
And not all Dragons are that 
small. 

3094
02:26:06,800 --> 02:26:08,960
There's Dragons that are pretty 
darn big and not as big as 

3095
02:26:08,960 --> 02:26:11,920
Vagar, but Vermothor's huge. 
Caraxis is of great size. 

3096
02:26:11,920 --> 02:26:14,160
Melis is really, really big. 
Yeah. 

3097
02:26:14,160 --> 02:26:18,040
It wouldn't go so quite so 
simply potentially, if that 

3098
02:26:18,040 --> 02:26:19,440
happens. 
So, yeah, what happens with the 

3099
02:26:19,440 --> 02:26:20,840
other side doesn't share that 
restraint. 

3100
02:26:20,840 --> 02:26:22,920
If you have two nuclear states 
facing each other, one of them 

3101
02:26:22,920 --> 02:26:26,800
knows it's a last resort. 
What if the other one doesn't? 

3102
02:26:27,240 --> 02:26:28,960
Then you're both going to start 
nuking each other. 

3103
02:26:28,960 --> 02:26:30,800
It's like, well, there they go, 
they launched nukes at us. 

3104
02:26:30,800 --> 02:26:32,320
Well, we have to respond in 
kind. 

3105
02:26:32,320 --> 02:26:33,600
That's it. 
They don't have that sense to 

3106
02:26:33,600 --> 02:26:37,400
not do it in the 1st place. 
This behavior was lost in Old 

3107
02:26:37,400 --> 02:26:40,000
Valyria because it died out. 
The people that were foolish 

3108
02:26:40,000 --> 02:26:44,800
enough to do it didn't survive. 
That's why it's like great to 

3109
02:26:44,800 --> 02:26:46,280
describe as an evolutionary 
trait. 

3110
02:26:46,280 --> 02:26:49,680
Like in the real world. 
In the real life, creatures that

3111
02:26:49,680 --> 02:26:55,000
don't evolve die out. 
You have to keep up doing 

3112
02:26:55,120 --> 02:26:57,160
something that self-destructive 
is. 

3113
02:26:57,680 --> 02:27:00,040
Is your shark? 
Sharks don't die out, they just 

3114
02:27:00,040 --> 02:27:03,480
keep on swimming. 
Sharks don't attack other sharks

3115
02:27:03,480 --> 02:27:04,960
unless they have a huge size 
advantage. 

3116
02:27:07,160 --> 02:27:12,960
They figured that out too. 
So it it's it works as a genetic

3117
02:27:12,960 --> 02:27:15,520
trait that was bred out of 
former Valyrian dragon large. 

3118
02:27:15,520 --> 02:27:18,800
Don't be the guy that attacks 
other Dragons with your. 

3119
02:27:18,800 --> 02:27:23,120
Dragon don't do that, but this 
era that. 

3120
02:27:23,720 --> 02:27:27,840
Lost trait has resurfaced and 
the blacks and greens are going 

3121
02:27:27,840 --> 02:27:31,800
to behave stupidly. 
So the Dragons during the time 

3122
02:27:31,800 --> 02:27:34,440
of Jeharis and Viserys for the 
most part didn't engage in war 

3123
02:27:34,960 --> 02:27:36,120
we saw. 
How that? 

3124
02:27:36,320 --> 02:27:39,800
Only happened one time at all. 
Through the history of Westeros 

3125
02:27:40,000 --> 02:27:41,880
before the Dance of the Dragons,
at least during the time of the 

3126
02:27:41,880 --> 02:27:43,160
Targaryens. 
Who knows what happened, You 

3127
02:27:43,160 --> 02:27:45,640
know, 10,000 years ago. 
Because apparently there were a 

3128
02:27:45,640 --> 02:27:47,640
few Dragons in Westeros back 
then as well. 

3129
02:27:47,880 --> 02:27:50,360
Whether they were even ridden or
fought each other is anyone's 

3130
02:27:50,360 --> 02:27:52,120
guess. 
But we always have a few 

3131
02:27:52,120 --> 02:27:55,280
caveats, for truly ancient times
anyway. 

3132
02:27:55,280 --> 02:27:59,720
The the Targaryens lost sight of
the costs, the dangers, and the 

3133
02:27:59,720 --> 02:28:01,480
reasons to avoid it in the 1st 
place. 

3134
02:28:01,480 --> 02:28:03,840
Yes, a few of them remembered, 
but not enough of it. 

3135
02:28:03,840 --> 02:28:06,680
It was no longer collectively 
collective knowledge. 

3136
02:28:06,680 --> 02:28:09,720
It was no longer a deeply held 
belief by the majority, if not 

3137
02:28:09,720 --> 02:28:12,320
all of them. 
It's fun for us to go into depth

3138
02:28:12,320 --> 02:28:15,480
on what the Dragons are capable 
of, but when you lay it out, you

3139
02:28:15,480 --> 02:28:18,080
see how much destruction they're
capable of, how much devastation

3140
02:28:18,080 --> 02:28:20,440
they're capable of, not just to 
everyone else, but to each 

3141
02:28:20,440 --> 02:28:23,400
other. 
It shows one of the central 

3142
02:28:23,400 --> 02:28:26,280
themes of A Song of Ice and Fire
that power corrupts here. 

3143
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:33,280
They it's throwing off common 
sense even like it's dumb to do 

3144
02:28:33,480 --> 02:28:35,560
the things that they're doing 
are about to do. 

3145
02:28:35,800 --> 02:28:37,560
And they're not dumb people, 
right? 

3146
02:28:37,560 --> 02:28:39,800
They aren't unintelligent. 
They're not, you know, some of 

3147
02:28:39,800 --> 02:28:42,440
them are a little bit psycho, 
but they're not stupid psycho in

3148
02:28:42,440 --> 02:28:45,000
that sense. 
You know, it's this mix of 

3149
02:28:45,000 --> 02:28:49,040
ambition, fear, pride and not 
listening. 

3150
02:28:49,560 --> 02:28:51,040
Arrogance, yeah, that's a big 
one, right? 

3151
02:28:51,040 --> 02:28:53,280
And not listening to those who 
came before, which is part of 

3152
02:28:53,280 --> 02:28:54,960
the arrogance. 
Not listening to the lessons 

3153
02:28:54,960 --> 02:28:58,640
learned by people that you could
learn something from 'cause they

3154
02:28:58,640 --> 02:29:01,480
are doing the same things you 
did learn from them of. 

3155
02:29:01,480 --> 02:29:03,600
And of course, we at History of 
Westeros, as I said at the 

3156
02:29:03,600 --> 02:29:07,320
beginning, love to emphasize 
learning from the past or the 

3157
02:29:07,320 --> 02:29:09,880
lessons that come from failing 
to learn. 

3158
02:29:11,200 --> 02:29:16,160
That's our episode today, folks.
Let's do our outro. 

3159
02:29:17,160 --> 02:29:20,680
Spiel here. 
I want to say real quick that 

3160
02:29:20,680 --> 02:29:24,520
that quote by Damon, it's it's 
it's it irked me. 

3161
02:29:24,720 --> 02:29:26,720
I'd rather like I Yeah. 
Wait, who said that? 

3162
02:29:27,320 --> 02:29:31,200
Damon, Yeah, of all people like,
yeah, why doesn't he? 

3163
02:29:31,360 --> 02:29:34,400
He needs to, he needs to have to
spread that advice to his his 

3164
02:29:34,400 --> 02:29:38,320
nephews before that or whatever.
It's too late for this message 

3165
02:29:38,320 --> 02:29:39,640
now. 
Like, because what I remember 

3166
02:29:39,640 --> 02:29:42,840
he's responding to Lord 
Celtigar, who says, why is this 

3167
02:29:42,840 --> 02:29:44,720
even a conversation? 
You have more Dragons than them.

3168
02:29:44,720 --> 02:29:47,960
Go to King's Landing. 
Burn it, we win. 

3169
02:29:48,840 --> 02:29:51,520
That's book, book and show. 
That's not even much of A 

3170
02:29:51,520 --> 02:29:52,600
divergent. 
It's pretty much the same 

3171
02:29:52,600 --> 02:29:55,960
language and Damon's like, well,
in addition to us not wanting to

3172
02:29:55,960 --> 02:29:59,240
burn the capital that that's we 
want to hold the capital and 

3173
02:29:59,240 --> 02:30:01,000
rule from it. 
We also. 

3174
02:30:01,360 --> 02:30:03,920
Would probably just result. 
In the death of most of the 

3175
02:30:03,920 --> 02:30:06,560
Dragons involved, and that's 
also bad for us keeping power 

3176
02:30:06,560 --> 02:30:08,480
afterwards. 
Neither of those things are on 

3177
02:30:09,280 --> 02:30:12,440
meet our goals. 
That's a level of like wisdom 

3178
02:30:12,440 --> 02:30:15,920
and restraint there that he 
doesn't typically seem to 

3179
02:30:16,040 --> 02:30:18,800
demonstrate. 
Yeah, OK folks, the trivia 

3180
02:30:18,800 --> 02:30:22,320
question was the largest army 
ever assembled was at the field 

3181
02:30:22,320 --> 02:30:24,480
of fire, 55,000 men. 
What is the largest? 

3182
02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:26,520
That's Westeros. 
What's the largest army ever 

3183
02:30:26,520 --> 02:30:31,280
assembled in Essos for in scare 
in the Great's army of 250,000 

3184
02:30:31,960 --> 02:30:34,560
that not only defeated some 
Dragons, but some war elephants 

3185
02:30:34,560 --> 02:30:36,440
and plenty of other things. 
Probably the biggest army we 

3186
02:30:36,440 --> 02:30:39,240
know of in Planet Toast, right? 
Yeah, Yeah, it would have to be.

3187
02:30:39,240 --> 02:30:40,720
Yeah, we certainly. 
There certainly isn't a bigger 

3188
02:30:40,720 --> 02:30:43,040
one in Satorios or like the 
Summer Isles or. 

3189
02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:45,760
Anything you know we. 
Know of that we know of exactly.

3190
02:30:46,920 --> 02:30:48,240
Episodes that relate to this 
one. 

3191
02:30:48,240 --> 02:30:50,400
If you want more about the 
Roinar and the fall of the 

3192
02:30:50,400 --> 02:30:53,040
Roinish cities and Garen the 
Great and greyscale and all 

3193
02:30:53,040 --> 02:30:55,040
that, Mother Roin is the episode
for you. 

3194
02:30:55,400 --> 02:30:58,080
More about Dragonstone and the 
landing of the Targaryens and 

3195
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:00,880
that era and the secrets of that
castle are in the Dragonstone 

3196
02:31:00,880 --> 02:31:02,280
episode. 
I've even got a Dragonstone 

3197
02:31:02,280 --> 02:31:04,640
shirt on. 
We have several episodes on 

3198
02:31:04,640 --> 02:31:07,360
Valyrian Wars and the Valyrian 
Freehold and the Doom of 

3199
02:31:07,360 --> 02:31:08,960
Valyria. 
Some of those came during 

3200
02:31:08,960 --> 02:31:11,720
Valoritas for Fire and Blood. 
Some of those came scripted 

3201
02:31:12,080 --> 02:31:13,560
elsewhere. 
We got a Century of Blood 

3202
02:31:13,560 --> 02:31:15,920
episode. 
We have a lot of reread its 

3203
02:31:15,920 --> 02:31:19,080
content on Aegon's Conquest, 
which was fairly recent. 

3204
02:31:19,080 --> 02:31:21,120
A lot of that was earlier this 
year and late last year. 

3205
02:31:21,360 --> 02:31:24,080
And we have several episodes on 
the Free Cities, individual 

3206
02:31:24,080 --> 02:31:26,440
ones. 
We got one on Lauraf. 

3207
02:31:26,440 --> 02:31:29,440
We have one. 
On Cohor we have one. 

3208
02:31:29,800 --> 02:31:32,480
On Pentas, yeah, we got some 
good ones. 

3209
02:31:33,240 --> 02:31:35,160
Hope you all check those out if 
you haven't already or maybe 

3210
02:31:35,160 --> 02:31:37,800
it's time for a re listen. 
Thanks again to. 

3211
02:31:37,800 --> 02:31:43,600
Nina for her valuable 
assistance, frequent notes and 

3212
02:31:43,600 --> 02:31:47,040
thoughts, and helping me work 
through some difficult parts of 

3213
02:31:47,040 --> 02:31:49,200
the episode. 
Check her out at 

3214
02:31:49,200 --> 02:31:54,320
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 
Also thanks to Joey, Jesse and 

3215
02:31:54,320 --> 02:31:58,360
Bran for the music. 
We're getting ready to re 

3216
02:31:59,320 --> 02:32:02,920
reissue our brands intro for 
fire and blood for for House the

3217
02:32:02,920 --> 02:32:04,320
dragon rather and it's it's 
awesome. 

3218
02:32:04,320 --> 02:32:06,480
It's a upgraded version. 
His first one was so good. 

3219
02:32:06,480 --> 02:32:08,760
This one's even cooler. 
Thanks as well to Michael 

3220
02:32:08,760 --> 02:32:12,040
Klarfeld for the regular video 
intro that we use on most of our

3221
02:32:12,040 --> 02:32:15,240
episodes. 
The maps you see behind us go to

3222
02:32:15,320 --> 02:32:21,440
KLARADO x.de to buy maps for 
yourself or just buy copies of 

3223
02:32:21,440 --> 02:32:22,840
them. 
Have them printed out yourself 

3224
02:32:22,840 --> 02:32:28,360
on at a printing store. 
And folks, no live streams for 

3225
02:32:28,360 --> 02:32:30,120
the next two weeks. 
We're going to have some, we're 

3226
02:32:30,840 --> 02:32:33,680
going to have the con doll 
interview will be posted and we 

3227
02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:37,720
will have some some one or two 
older episodes that we'll bring 

3228
02:32:37,720 --> 02:32:40,040
back to the front and then it's.
House the Dragon season time. 

3229
02:32:40,160 --> 02:32:44,640
So folks, we're getting into the
fun stuff and we are looking 

3230
02:32:44,640 --> 02:32:46,000
forward to experiencing that all
with you. 

3231
02:32:46,000 --> 02:32:54,320
Now you know what to do In the 
meantime, Valor re read us the.