1
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,400
The deaths of Queen Rainis, and 
even more so Princess Miria, led

2
00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,440
to the end of the First Dornish 
War, but ultimately the final 

3
00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,040
decision to end it was made by 
Aegon the Conqueror upon receipt

4
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,960
of the mysterious letter that he
burned immediately after 

5
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,360
reading. 
What was in that letter? 

6
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,200
Was it sorcery? 
A threat? 

7
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,200
A revelation? 
We have questions beyond this as

8
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,000
well. 
For example, it worked. 

9
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,640
So why didn't Miria try it? 
What was her thinking on it? 

10
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,000
What? 
What's the deal there? 

11
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,960
And if Rainey's did say, survive
her fall when Miraxis was shot 

12
00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,160
down, what exactly did they 
promise? 

13
00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:32,080
If, if that is the answer and if
it's not, Well, we've got 

14
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,120
further questions. 
That and the legacies of 

15
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,520
Rainey's and Maria, what their 
deaths meant for their 

16
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,360
respective countries other than 
the end of the war. 

17
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,960
Well, we've got that and more on
this episode of History of 

18
00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:50,560
Westeros podcast. 
Hello and welcome back 

19
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,960
everybody. 
It's another excellent edition 

20
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,320
of The Fire and Blood. 
Read through. 

21
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,160
We hope. 
We hope you agree. 

22
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,960
I'm gonna say that he burned 
that letter immediately and 

23
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,800
conveniently or inconveniently. 
Now you look at. 

24
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,400
It I know. 
Talk about burn. 

25
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,440
After reading, you'd think it's 
not surprising that the 

26
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,840
Targaryens are big on that one. 
We have live streams every 3:00 

27
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,480
PM on Sundays for stuff like 
this. 

28
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,960
Maybe occasionally we don't, but
most Sundays, I should say. 

29
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,040
Afterwards, every video is 
available on YouTube where it 

30
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,080
was streamed, and an edited 
version will appear on Spotify. 

31
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,520
The audio version will appear 
everywhere, you can get 

32
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,360
podcasts, and there's an ad free
version on Patreon. 

33
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,360
If you join us there, you can 
listen. 

34
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,720
Without any ad breaks, we are in
the midst of our topics moot. 

35
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,200
Now at the midpoint of this 
episode, I'll let you all know 

36
00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:50,640
what topics we've done so far, 
what are in progress, and a 

37
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,920
sneak peek at this few that are 
coming. 

38
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,800
That's pretty fun. 
We're picking 12 topics to get 

39
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,400
made into episodes this year, 
Shauna, so you got a clutch 

40
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:00,640
shirt on. 
That's awesome. 

41
00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:03,240
One of my favorite bands of all 
time, the band I've seen the 

42
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,960
most live. 
Is that also the case for you? 

43
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,600
I have lost track. 
I think you've seen them like 

44
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,000
twice as much as me, but I've 
seen Clutch, Mastodon and the 

45
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,480
Sword around a dozen times each.
You know, one might be 10 or 14,

46
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,240
but yeah. 
I've seen, I've definitely seen 

47
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,920
clutch 30 times or around and 
that's not an exaggeration. 

48
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,520
We were, we've been counting 
since it was in the teens. 

49
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,840
So I know it's a big number, but
that's also because I'm an old 

50
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,240
man and I've had lots of time to
see that band they've been 

51
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,240
around. 
And they've they've toured a lot

52
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,360
too. 
They've toured like constantly, 

53
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,320
pretty much. 
Never. 

54
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,720
No lineup change or anything 
like that, too. 

55
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,880
So they've always, yeah, they've
been together since high school.

56
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,600
It's pretty hard to do that. 
You're sure it looks like a Sun 

57
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,200
Spear Martel type? 
Yeah, it is. 

58
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:46,680
It's. 
I can't. 

59
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,240
See the image inside the sun 
there. 

60
00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,320
It's a little red Viper ish, I 
think. 

61
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,480
It's not like explicitly the red
Viper, but I think that's who 

62
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,720
it's supposed to inspire people 
to think of. 

63
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,760
It's the spear. 
Man, the silhouette is the spear

64
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,680
is the of the red vibe. 
Yeah, I think it's like, not 

65
00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,400
everyone's going to immediately 
know that, but it's a safe first

66
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,000
guess and is indeed correct. 
So yeah, that's a cool shirt. 

67
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,040
I don't have a lot of brown 
shirts and this is a fire and 

68
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,760
bloodish. 
Or rather unbowed and bent, 

69
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,040
unbroken Ish. 
The son of Dorn and the spear. 

70
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,959
Yeah, very Martel. 
That's pretty sweet. 

71
00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:19,800
I like this shirt. 
All right, so shout out to our 

72
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,079
good friend Nina. 
Didn't ask me about my shirt. 

73
00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:23,960
Oh, of course. 
Well, Shay has got a cool shirt 

74
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,240
too. 
We don't always talk about your 

75
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:26,240
shirt because it's not on 
camera. 

76
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,800
I'm in a in a across the spider 
verse sweatshirt, in fact, which

77
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,880
is the, I guess my favorite 
movie of last year. 

78
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,680
Nice. 
Yes, it was really fun. 

79
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,120
Our experience at it was less 
fun than it could have been. 

80
00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:41,840
If any of y'all have ever gone 
to a 4D theater with the shaking

81
00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:45,560
seats, oh man, 4D with the wind 
and the the mist. 

82
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,680
I like that. 
But we went to the one where 

83
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,600
your your seats were moving like
a roller coaster, like you 

84
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,800
literally couldn't take a sip 
from your drink. 

85
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,320
One of our friends sat on the 
ground, almost sat on the ground

86
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,000
because he was getting nauseous.
I was also like that. 

87
00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,600
I almost sat I. 
Really thought we needed 

88
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,240
seatbelts. 
It was how bad it was actually. 

89
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,120
But I love the movie. 
Love the movie. 

90
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:05,800
Hated that experience. 
Yes. 

91
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,040
So if you had a similar 
experience at that movie or 

92
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,360
another one, let us know in the 
chat because I I think they 

93
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,160
abandoned that. 
They cut back on that right 

94
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,480
away. 
They're like nobody liked that. 

95
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:21,120
So let's tone that down a bit. 
I can't not add a little bit to 

96
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:22,440
this. 
I just want to point out Barbie 

97
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,400
was my favorite movie of last 
year, which is nominated for 

98
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,040
Best Picture and Across the 
Spider Verse, nominated for Best

99
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,760
Animated Movie, along with The 
Boy and the Heron, which I just 

100
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,120
saw at the theatre, which is 
pretty good too. 

101
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,840
I'm torn. 
I think I like Spider First 

102
00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:36,160
better, but they're good 
different ways. 

103
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,920
Violet, I want to see Nimona 
still as well, also nominated 

104
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,240
for Best Animated Film. 
I plan on seeing that next 

105
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:44,440
month. 
Right on. 

106
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,800
Well, let's shout out our good 
friend Nina. 

107
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,120
Her blog is at good Queen Alley.
That's ALYSAN. 

108
00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:56,200
Good Good Queen Alley. 
GODQUENALYI never bothered to 

109
00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,480
spell it all the way out. 
I just say 1L and Alley 

110
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:04,640
butyeah.tumblr.com and Tumblr 
doesn't have an E Oh my gosh TU 

111
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,240
MB LR there's how do they do 
that It's. 

112
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,200
All this time I thought it was 
GUD. 

113
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,320
Good, good. 
Queen Alley. 

114
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,480
Yes? 
At her latest blog post is she 

115
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,640
got a question about the unknown
medals of the Citadel? 

116
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,320
As in what chains represent 
what? 

117
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,640
There's several medals that we 
know appear as associated with 

118
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,480
certain studies that we don't 
actually know what those studies

119
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,080
are, like Brass, pewter, 
platinum, red, gold, and tin, 

120
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,800
for example, and she fills in 
the blanks with some educated 

121
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,360
guesses. 
I particularly like her guesses 

122
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,720
for brass and platinum, so check
that out if you're so inclined. 

123
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,080
If you have questions of your 
own, send them to 

124
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,520
westeroshistory@gmail.com or 
connect with us through Patreon 

125
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,080
or any of the other social media
sites. 

126
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,320
But Westeros history@gmail.com 
is perhaps the most surefire 

127
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,080
way. 
My hate Canon is that brass 

128
00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:56,720
means they learn how to play the
trumpet. 

129
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,040
Music Woodwind specifically, 
Yes. 

130
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,600
Let's start with our trivia 
question. 

131
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,280
Dornish blank became slang north
of the Red Mountains for 

132
00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,440
cowardice. 
Fill in the blank. 

133
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,920
Dornish blank became slang for 
cowardice. 

134
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:13,680
What is the? 
Blank. 

135
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,880
That's the answer. 
Blank. 

136
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,200
Yes, Dorn, they say, you 
Dornish. 

137
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,360
Blank. 
That's right, Blank Man. 

138
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,120
Everywhere. 
This episode will be concerned 

139
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,320
with the deaths of Princess 
Miria, Queen Rainies and Raxies 

140
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,920
and what their deaths meant to 
the respective causes and 

141
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,760
countries and family, and how 
ultimately these elements were 

142
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,600
crucial to forging a peace after
a long period in which there 

143
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,840
seemed to be no end insight to a
very brutal bloody war. 

144
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,840
This is a big part of their 
respective legacies which we 

145
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,120
will dig into deeper in the 
second-half. 

146
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,280
The first part is of course the 
peace process and the letter. 

147
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,520
Apart from those two meaning 
Maria and Renis, our cast of 

148
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,960
characters today includes the 
other two heads of the Dragon of

149
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,200
course to send you an Aegon, 
Prince Nymore and his daughter 

150
00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,920
Air Princess Diria Oris 
Baratheon, the new hand of the 

151
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,880
King, Lord Alton Saltagar, who 
actually doesn't do very much 

152
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,760
but we he he should be mentioned
because he was the hand of the 

153
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,360
King in this era. 
Lord Oakhart makes a brief 

154
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,320
appearance Grand Maester Gowen 
who is the third ever Grand 

155
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,520
Maester. 
He's a big part of this young 

156
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,880
Prince Ayes is around and even 
younger Prince Magor is on the 

157
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,960
scene. 
Also a correction from last 

158
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,800
episode. 
I goofed on Magor's birthday. 

159
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,600
He was born in 12, not ten. 
I have have a mental block on 

160
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:26,640
that. 
This is not the first time I've 

161
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,320
made that mistake. 
So it happens. 

162
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,920
That means Vicena was not 
pregnant when the Kingsguard was

163
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,880
formed, so take that with a 
grain of salt. 

164
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,440
I don't think I made any other 
points based on that wrong date.

165
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,440
It's it's all A2 year doesn't 
make that much difference in 

166
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,200
terms of guesstimating and other
things like that. 

167
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,880
The air and a spare did change 
the Targaryen picture, but since

168
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,160
both happened before the piece 
was consummated, it doesn't 

169
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,560
really matter. 
So yeah, my my brain is stuck on

170
00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:55,920
Megor being two years older than
he really was, but we'll deal 

171
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,480
with that. 
So the death of Miria. 

172
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,600
Let's have a quote picking us up
basically where we left off last

173
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,520
time. 
Age and ill health finally did 

174
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:11,800
what Dragons and armies could 
not in 13 AC, Miria Martel, the 

175
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,720
yellow toad of Dorne, died Abed 
whilst having intimate relations

176
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,400
with a stallion. 
Her enemies insisted. 

177
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,520
Her son Nymore succeeded her as 
Lord of Sunspear and Prince of 

178
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,400
Dorne, 60 years old, his health 
already failing, the new Dornish

179
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,560
Prince had no appetite for 
further slaughter. 

180
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,440
He began his reign by sending a 
delegation to King's Landing to 

181
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,640
return the skull of the dragon 
Maraxis and offer King Aegon 

182
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,200
terms of peace. 
His own heir, his daughter 

183
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,240
Daria, led the embassy. 
So Nina mentioned the parallel 

184
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,360
to Catherine the Great last 
time, which is only slightly 

185
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,760
less ridiculous. 
The woman you know, hooking up 

186
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,320
with a horse. 
This is even what I by, I mean 

187
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,320
less ridiculous for Catherine. 
The grade is that Catherine the 

188
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,120
grade was at least like not a 90
something year old woman. 

189
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,400
It just makes it a little more 
ridiculous. 

190
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,600
Like, yeah, this 95 year old 
woman's looking up with a horse.

191
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,560
Yeah, it's not that much more 
realistic for a 35 year old 

192
00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:14,760
woman, but I would say it's even
less likely for a 95 year old 

193
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,480
anyway. 
It's clearly absurd in any case,

194
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,880
but I can imagine the coronation
being an unusually UN fancy 

195
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,680
affair. 
Like, big celebration for the 

196
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:26,040
new Prince of Dorne. 
Yeah, after nine years of an 

197
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,160
incredibly brutal war, I think 
this was probably a low, you 

198
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,840
know, a low festivity affair. 
They're just like, Yep, all 

199
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,000
right, time to move on. 
And what are we going to do now?

200
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,880
I have to make a Letterkenny 
reference here. 

201
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,480
I know you haven't seen it, but 
anyone it has. 

202
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,280
Know what I mean when I say it 
was a sick horse? 

203
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:42,440
A sick horse. 
OK. 

204
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,480
Yeah. 
When they've watched 

205
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:45,440
Letterkenny, you know what I 
mean. 

206
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,480
So the Targaryens didn't burn 
Sunspear though. 

207
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,600
So at least it wasn't like they 
weren't having a coronation and 

208
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,360
you know, burned out husk of a 
building, but they probably kept

209
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,040
it small, you know, I didn't 
need word getting out. 

210
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,360
Last thing they needed was like 
assassins or or a dragon showing

211
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,760
up to just torch the affair 
entirely. 

212
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,240
You need to point out that one 
interesting aspect to this war 

213
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,880
is that we don't actually get a 
lot of internal politicking and 

214
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,560
and court factionalism if there 
was any in Dorne, we we're it's 

215
00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:17,800
this is fire and blood. 
It's focused on the Targaryen 

216
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,560
history, so we have less of the 
Dornish point of view. 

217
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,360
In fact, we have very little of 
the Dornish point of view. 

218
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,600
And you really wonder what was 
going on down there. 

219
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,680
Were they arguing about whether 
to keep the war going? 

220
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,280
What? 
Did Miriam know her son was 

221
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,040
going to immediately flip the 
switch when she died? 

222
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,080
Was she aware of that or should 
she suspect it? 

223
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,120
What did? 
What did Diria think? 

224
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:42,120
Diria is the neck now, the heir 
at this point after Myriad died.

225
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,160
So is she on her grandmother's 
side? 

226
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,840
Is she on her father's side? 
Is she kind of neutral? 

227
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,520
Does she play in both sides? 
It's really not very clear to 

228
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,560
us, but it would. 
But it's an interesting thing to

229
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:55,000
consider. 
Were they debating it? 

230
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,360
Were. 
Was there? 

231
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,840
Did it get, like tense? 
Was there threats made, or were 

232
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,200
they just kind of all on one 
mind about it, or just pretty 

233
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,920
happy with Mary's leadership and
ready to keep fighting? 

234
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,640
Well, probably not, because Nine
More stopped it immediately. 

235
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,800
He sent this delegation like 
apparently within weeks of his 

236
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,800
mother's death. 
And this would have been an 

237
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,600
interesting state of affairs 
because they might have expected

238
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,320
this to happen much sooner, like
this 95 ish year old woman. 

239
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,880
Like they probably thought she 
would have died like 20 years 

240
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,640
before, like before this war 
even started. 

241
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,000
They would have expected her to 
pass. 

242
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,440
So it was one of the things 
where it is any day now she 

243
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,680
might pass and then we might 
everything will change 

244
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:40,480
potentially. 
But but they couldn't know for 

245
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,160
sure that the peace would be 
accepted. 

246
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:44,800
They couldn't know for sure that
their plan would work. 

247
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,680
They may not have even had the 
plan at that point it. 

248
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,040
Reminds me a little bit that 
thinking about House of the 

249
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,840
Dragon when Viserys dies, this 
sort of domino effect that came 

250
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,000
right like like Damon suspected 
that they killed him. 

251
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,560
For now, it's a. 
Little more reasonable for her 

252
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:05,320
to die when she's 95 years old 
or whatever, but also how much 

253
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,600
milk of the puppy was she on 
leading up to that moment? 

254
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,000
How much of A puppet was she to 
people who did want the war to 

255
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,440
keep going? 
If at all. 

256
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,720
Yeah, yeah, maybe not at all. 
But much like House of the 

257
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,880
Dragon fleshed out a lot of 
stuff and raised new questions 

258
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,720
or gave us new interpretations, 
there's so much for us to so 

259
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,640
much drama and and detail and 
characterization that could be 

260
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,120
played out if they made a show 
out of this scenario. 

261
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,000
And even though we can't know, 
we have, like you said, it's got

262
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,600
similarities, it's got 
parallels. 

263
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,280
We got to, we got at least have 
an idea of what questions to 

264
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,480
ask, of what what we should be 
wondering about the types of 

265
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,080
things that would be going on or
probably would be going on. 

266
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,400
We don't know. 
But it's not crazy to think that

267
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,800
there would be factions that 
wanted peace or wanted revenge, 

268
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,440
right? 
You would have been in charge of

269
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,280
those factions. 
How strong would they have been?

270
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,600
How were they manipulating Maria
leading up to her death? 

271
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,760
How did they play out after she 
died, Etcetera. 

272
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,640
I mean, heck, we make those 
assumptions about the children 

273
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,320
of the Force, that maybe they 
had factions within them, maybe 

274
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,600
even the others. 
That seems less likely because 

275
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,000
there there might be a magical 
creation or a magical race or 

276
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,320
something, but still, so they 
don't have to necessarily follow

277
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,280
human societal rules where you 
have all this diversity of 

278
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,360
opinion necessarily, or at least
two opinions you fight on or for

279
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,200
peace, you know? 
But like, even if you know, 

280
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,680
maybe there's other elements to 
this question or line of thought

281
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,040
or whatever, but even like a 
pack of wolves or orangutans 

282
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,400
have factions, right? 
It's not like only humans can 

283
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,240
have. 
Factions and Dorn is known for 

284
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,520
being a factionalist place. 
It's never been terribly united.

285
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,080
It's always been sort of the 
least united of the Seven 

286
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,280
Kingdoms or the 8 Kingdoms or 
yeah, forget the number, you 

287
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,200
know what I mean? 
Like when Balin Swan journeys to

288
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,400
Sunspear and has that feast with
Doran. 

289
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:51,080
There's blatantly many Dornish 
Lords do not drink to the toast 

290
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,920
to the king. 
You know they're like at Obar, 

291
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,200
like flat out turns or cup. 
You know like makes a big scene 

292
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,400
out of it. 
So it's not, it's not even like,

293
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,520
I think I wonder what side 
they're on. 

294
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,000
He didn't like, look, no, 
they're blatant about it. 

295
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,280
So they know they. 
Seemed like that in a Dunkin Egg

296
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,920
too, wasn't there? 
Oh gosh. 

297
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,320
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, yeah, you're right in 

298
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,200
the mystery. 
Fire pretender. 

299
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,320
Yeah, you know, made a toast and
some people drank and some 

300
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,440
didn't, you know? 
Yeah and yeah, it was fireballs,

301
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,080
son. 
Quote UN quote Who who said who 

302
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,000
poured his wine and and blood 
Raven in disguise was like it's 

303
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,040
a waste of good wine, man. 
Yeah, yeah. 

304
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,800
Did you put Fireball Sun quote, 
UN quote, in quotes like that? 

305
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,680
Because really it should be 
trueborn. 

306
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:33,760
I'm. 
Not sure but. 

307
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,360
Quote. 
That's right. 

308
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,400
That's right. 
So, so the parallels are strong 

309
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,120
and we think about the type of 
place Dorne is and it would be 

310
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,720
kind of wild to think that they 
were all just on the same page, 

311
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,160
but they were maybe a lot of 
attitudes about they were 

312
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,200
probably were fairly agreed that
they didn't want to just give 

313
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,960
up. 
However, giving up can mean a 

314
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,080
lot of different things. 
There's peace, they're suing for

315
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,720
peace, there's asking for 
concessions and there's just, 

316
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,920
hey, can we just stop now? 
You know, there's a lot of 

317
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,400
different versions of that, 
whether you ask for something or

318
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,600
anything. 
Modern Dorn, we don't see it as 

319
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,200
a monolith, and we see them in 
fighting and having slight 

320
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,120
disagreements, but generally 
still being on the same page 

321
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,920
over all of what they want. 
But they still have a variety of

322
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,080
opinions. 
Yeah, keep in mind, that's a 

323
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,080
great point to say. 
Keep in mind that it's not like 

324
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:29,120
Nymeria's unification of Dorne 
is in the ancient past. 

325
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,080
It's pretty far in the past. 
But we're not talking Age of 

326
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,400
Heroes. 
We're not talking, you know it's

327
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,120
not as recent as the Doom of of 
Valyria, but the, you know 

328
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,600
because they fled before the 
Doom. 

329
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,120
But you know we're talking like 
5-6 hundred years maybe it's not

330
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,800
known we we were. 
It's a guesstimation. 

331
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,000
But we're talking hundreds of 
years, not even 1000. 

332
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,200
So yeah, so Dorne is still was 
still changing at this point 

333
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,600
from their new scenario there 
you still have people like named

334
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,040
after her like blatantly 
Nymeria, Nymore, Myriadiria, 

335
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,240
like that doesn't happen as much
now. 

336
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,760
You still have Nim and but Doran
and these other names that 

337
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,599
aren't really connected to that.
Also, to Shay's point in the, I 

338
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:17,599
don't know, current timeline 
where the Dornish aren't 

339
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,599
directly at odds, they generally
have the same big picture goals,

340
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,560
but they're still have different
routes there and there's also a 

341
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,160
lot of intrigue there. 
There's secrets being kept about

342
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,840
what different people's plans 
are, right? 

343
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,440
So same could have happened in 
this scenario. 

344
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,560
Yeah. 
So I wonder if Nymore had this 

345
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,320
idea well ahead of him enacting 
himself. 

346
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,000
I think. 
I think he probably did, because

347
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,760
the timing is otherwise very 
suspicious. 

348
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,880
It's not like otherwise we're 
saying he had the idea the 

349
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,120
minute his mom died, you know, 
or right before she died. 

350
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:45,240
Like, you know what? 
This is a good idea. 

351
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,120
He probably had it sooner, maybe
a lot sooner and tried to 

352
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:53,320
suggest it to her and she 
rejected it for some reason or 

353
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:54,960
another. 
And we'll go through what those 

354
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,760
possible reasons would be 
throughout this episode. 

355
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,560
One of them would be maybe it 
was too soon, like he's like no,

356
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,560
there's no way they're going to 
agree to this so soon after 

357
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,840
Rainey's death. 
Maybe after more time has passed

358
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,040
and maybe she thought it took 
more time. 

359
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,480
Maybe she was just against it. 
But by the time she she died, it

360
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,560
was like, OK, it's been three 
years or 2 1/2 years since 

361
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,680
Rainey's died. 
Maybe now we have a chance to to

362
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,200
finally end this. 
Nina also suggests perhaps Diria

363
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,200
was like. 
If Diria was like and was more 

364
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,520
aggressive and energetic and 
when to keep the war going, 

365
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,120
Nymore may have felt very 
pressured to do his best 

366
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,280
thinking. 
He may have only had a short 

367
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,840
time because it does say his 
health is already failing. 

368
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,360
He's already in his 60s, He's 
maybe a Doran Martel figure, 

369
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,520
like a ruler of Doran who is 
trying to do his best to keep 

370
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,320
his nation from suffering. 
Of course, at this point they've

371
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,720
already suffered, so it's more 
like further suffering at this 

372
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,360
point. 
And you know, he doesn't need to

373
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,560
see more Dornish people killed 
for a war that can't be won. 

374
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,440
So he had to act when he could. 
I like that theory a lot. 

375
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,200
Now, we don't necessarily know 
if that's true. 

376
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,160
We don't know what kind of 
person theory it was. 

377
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:00,680
But there is some evidence that 
we'll get into a bit later that 

378
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,560
does kind of indicate theory. 
It may have been more of the 

379
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,640
Marshall type, you know, the 
more of the stick it out type. 

380
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,280
Now, I'm not this isn't a 
suggestion that Nine More was 

381
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,520
cowardly or anything like that, 
because there's a lot of risk to

382
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,480
this strategy. 
There was a lot of ways this 

383
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:15,720
could have gone wrong, as we'll 
see. 

384
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,160
We can't just be hindsight about
it and say, yeah, it worked. 

385
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,760
So clearly it was. 
And they knew it would work. 

386
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,040
No, they didn't. 
They couldn't have known. 

387
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,000
In fact, it could have backfired
very badly. 

388
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,120
And we'll get into that. 
So if the Targaryen just kept 

389
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,840
coming and and burning stuff, 
like why would they expect a 

390
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,600
peace delegation to even stop? 
What leverage did they have, 

391
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,080
right. 
Well, they had whatever leverage

392
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,920
is in this letter. 
Apparently there's something in 

393
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,040
there that that worked. 
But yeah, we don't know what 

394
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,360
that was. 
So let's get to that. 

395
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,880
The year 12. 
So one year prior to this peace 

396
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,800
process, the second ever Grand 
Maester broke his hip, slipping 

397
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,320
in the mud. 
And he had been the Grand 

398
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,040
Maester since basically the 
beginning because the first 

399
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Grand Grand Maester lasted less 
than a year. 

400
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,520
So this was this guy had been 
around for about 8 years. 

401
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,680
So the third ever Grand Maester 
was elevated. 

402
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,280
His name was Gawin or Gawin 
GAWEN and he would take office 

403
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,200
and hold it for 29 years. 
So into the reign of Megor. 

404
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,200
So we won't mention a new Grand 
Maester for a while. 

405
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,360
So a little stability in the 
office and that's kind of 

406
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,520
interesting. 
The first died after less than a

407
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,680
year, the 2nd lasted 8 and this 
guy's like a Pycellian length of

408
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,400
time. 
Pycell actually lasted over 40 

409
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,960
years, so quite a bit more, but 
still 29 is a long time. 

410
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,640
They also have another thing in 
common, they were both killed 

411
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,920
rather than dying of natural 
causes, and they both were 

412
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,920
killed inside the Red Keep. 
So sorry Gowen, you're not going

413
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,280
to have the best ending, but 
we're nowhere near that yet. 

414
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,320
We're still 29 years from that. 
So yes, we're not at nowhere 

415
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,440
near Magor's reign. 
We haven't even gotten to Amy's 

416
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,720
or the end of Aegon. 
Here is another quote. 

417
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,880
This is the delivery of the 
peace proposal to the king. 

418
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,920
Prince Nymore's peace proposals 
encountered strong opposition in

419
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,080
King's Landing. 
Queen Vicenia was hard set 

420
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,360
against them. 
No peace without submission, she

421
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:03,760
declared, and her friends on the
King's Council echoed her words.

422
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,320
Oris Baratheon, who had grown 
bent and bitter in his later 

423
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,360
years, argued for sending 
Princess Deria back to her 

424
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,240
father. 
Less a hand, Lord Oakhart sent a

425
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,760
Raven suggesting that the 
Dornish girl be sold into. 

426
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,200
The meanest brothel in King's 
Landing, till every beggar in 

427
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,920
the city has had his pleasure of
her. 

428
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,360
Aegon Targaryen dismissed all 
such proposals. 

429
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,160
Princess Deria had come as an 
envoy under a banner of peace 

430
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,400
and would suffer no harm under 
his roof, he vowed. 

431
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,680
I hope I don't have to read any 
more Lord Oakhart quotes. 

432
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,560
That is the only Lord Oakhart 
quote this episode, yes. 

433
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,240
So it goes to show how much of 
Aegon's newly established 

434
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,240
reputation was hanging in the 
balance, like he wasn't in 

435
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,280
danger of losing the throne or 
anything. 

436
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,160
Let me be clear. 
But his counsel is offering very

437
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,800
dishonorable, very grudge 
oriented, very revenge oriented 

438
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,560
advice. 
Like everyone specifically 

439
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,400
offering payback for what had 
happened to them. 

440
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,280
Lord Oakhart that had happened 
to his son and and his bride to 

441
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,520
be, and obviously Oris and a lot
of his men lost their sword 

442
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,760
arms. 
So they're like do it to her. 

443
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,600
Yeah, Vicenya may have been this
hardcore regardless. 

444
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,640
She's always pretty hardcore. 
So this, I don't know if this is

445
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,120
like a change of tune for her. 
This is just how she would have 

446
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,520
been anyway. 
And I kind of wonder, it says, 

447
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,840
and her friends on the King's 
council. 

448
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,840
It's not like the King's council
is very large. 

449
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,800
So who are these people? 
Is she talking? 

450
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:30,640
Is Oris? 
One of them? 

451
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,440
Is Oris on her side? 
I mean, they seem to have a 

452
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,880
similar they seem to be on the 
same position here, like they're

453
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,520
both like no. 
But it sounds like almost 

454
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,760
everyone was saying no and 
loudly no and not only no, only 

455
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,240
yes if there's lots of violence 
or anyway. 

456
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,880
So yeah, there's a new the new 
hand. 

457
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,360
As I said in the intro that 
Alton Celtagar his hand, his 

458
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:50,800
opinion's not noted, although 
maybe he's one of the seniors 

459
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,680
friends on the council. 
That might be why he's not noted

460
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,200
specifically just because he's 
in that group. 

461
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,120
Might be why he's on the council
too, because he's her friend, so

462
00:22:59,160 --> 00:22:59,800
yeah. 
Good point. 

463
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,080
Yeah, and he's a Celtagar or 
Celtagar, meaning he is Valyrian

464
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,880
and more recently Valyrian. 
They probably haven't mingled 

465
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,040
with the Seven Kingdoms, with 
the Andals and First Men nearly 

466
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,760
as much yet. 
So Ori says yes. 

467
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,160
Like I said, Ori's suggestion 
was very personal given his own 

468
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,040
maiming. 
But consider that like a lot of 

469
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,920
his court is the same like the 
he picked. 

470
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,400
Remember that was an elite 
picked squad that he took so 

471
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,080
it's the closest guys and and 
the highest ranking of them 

472
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,720
would have lived minus their 
sword hands. 

473
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,520
So his whole court right now is 
a bunch of one handed guys and 

474
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,720
they're all like a lot of them 
are going to be bitter and angry

475
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,840
and it's not a probably not a 
very good place to be, probably 

476
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,560
a lot of just probably a very 
gloomy place and I wonder if he 

477
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,120
was even there. 
Like he he wasn't hand anymore 

478
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,280
but he offered an opinion. 
So either he's still at court 

479
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,960
after resigning his position or 
Nina suggests he heard the 

480
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,880
delegation was coming and he 
showed up to be able to weigh 

481
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,080
in. 
Which somewhat favor that idea 

482
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,400
'cause it's kind of weird to 
resign your position, his hand, 

483
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,080
but still hang out at court and 
just stay there like it sounds 

484
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,720
like he wanted to go be by 
himself, so. 

485
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,200
He is nearby too, right so. 
Storm's ends? 

486
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,920
Not super far, yeah. 
Yeah, he would have definitely 

487
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,880
been able to do that, yeah. 
Even if he didn't come 

488
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,040
specifically for this reason, he
he still might be going back and

489
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,960
forth, 'cause he, I imagine, has
connections in King's Landing 

490
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,840
anyway, so. 
Yeah, now this is this is not, 

491
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,240
this is very hypocritical for 
these aggressors to be like oh, 

492
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,600
they did all this to us like you
started the war, you know, But 

493
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,680
it just goes to show how long 
this had dragged on, how this is

494
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:35,920
not. 
And you can't really claim this 

495
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,920
is atypical for people. 
You know, humans are hypocrites 

496
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,720
all, especially when it comes to
long drawn out wars and and 

497
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,720
personal violence and cycles of 
revenge. 

498
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,120
You kind of forget how it 
started, even though it wasn't 

499
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,040
that long ago, nine years ago. 
Or even if you don't forget, you

500
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,840
might just not care. 
Like when you get your hand cut 

501
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,120
off you. 
It might not matter to you that 

502
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,720
someone else started the war 
that sent you down there. 

503
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,320
You're just mad that your hand 
was cut off. 

504
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,480
You're not even, you're not 
necessarily caring about the 

505
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,600
war. 
You care about the people that 

506
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,240
cut your hand off. 
Like, he's like, yeah, whatever 

507
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,480
happens to the war, whatever. 
I want those wills to suffer, 

508
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,040
you know. 
But this is just, Again, this 

509
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,760
goes to show how bad it is. 
Like if in a regular time of 

510
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,560
peace, like who's just openly 
preaching this sort of treatment

511
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,280
of envoys, like this isn't just 
like enemies, these are envoys. 

512
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,880
That's I get like this goes back
to the Argolac, the arrogant 

513
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,640
thing. 
This is something that Aegon got

514
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,880
rightfully upset about. 
Of course it didn't happen and 

515
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,400
Aegon was like, no, we're not 
doing that. 

516
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,040
So you know, good, good on him 
for not allowing that. 

517
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,960
But still, the fact that they're
even suggesting, it really just 

518
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,840
goes to show. 
And Nina says, yeah, there's a 

519
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,480
there's A at this point, no one 
can really claim the moral high 

520
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,880
ground anymore there. 
There's too many war crimes even

521
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,400
on the Dornish side at this 
point for them to say it's 

522
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,440
purely a war of defense. 
Like they've invaded the Seven 

523
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,720
Kingdoms and and done horrible 
things to people that really had

524
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,840
nothing to do with the war at 
all. 

525
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,280
So like, they lost the moral 
high ground, especially people 

526
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,960
like the Widow Lover and guys 
like that. 

527
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,600
So just so that's part of what's
going on here, like, well, we've

528
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,080
already given up all pretense of
of ceremony and honor, so what's

529
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,280
a little more, you know? 
This is a little piece that I 

530
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,440
think helps set the stage when 
we talk about the letter too, 

531
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,560
because it's worth noting that 
it's not crazy that they would 

532
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,280
have taken Daria hostage or 
tortured her or whatever else it

533
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,920
is. 
Maybe it was a gamble or or 

534
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,320
maybe less of a gamble than we 
feel like because of what was in

535
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,120
that letter. 
Maybe they knew what was in 

536
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,000
there would stop them. 
Not just stop the word, but stop

537
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,320
them from doing something. 
To Daria. 

538
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,800
Maybe, but only if they show it 
to the king. 

539
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,160
You know, like, maybe they're. 
Right. 

540
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,440
They got to get to the king 
safely is a lot of. 

541
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,520
Yeah, right. 
Like, could they have been, 

542
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,800
could they have been worried 
that they just been attacked on 

543
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,000
the way? 
Like they're flying a peace 

544
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,640
banner For sure. 
But, like, are they gonna, are 

545
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,920
they gonna listen? 
Are they gonna, like, obey that?

546
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,840
Are they gonna honor that? 
Yeah, maybe not. 

547
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,120
So that would have been Yeah, 
there's risk. 

548
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:49,520
There was serious risk. 
Just didn't go in. 

549
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,080
There, like you would kind of 
think as a default. 

550
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,960
Weddings have peace banners 
flying, you know. 

551
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,880
Yeah, but. 
That didn't matter. 

552
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,280
So it. 
Didn't matter in Fontaine. 

553
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,440
Yeah, it didn't matter in 
Fontaine or or at the Red 

554
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,840
Wedding. 
But you know, it's funny because

555
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,200
later in the in the main story, 
the Dornish did that. 

556
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,120
The Martels did that in a way. 
And sending envoys and sending 

557
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,240
people to dangerous like 
situations that could blow up in

558
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,640
their face, some of which 
haven't played out yet, because 

559
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:22,240
we have like Nymeria and Tyene 
going to King's Landing one but 

560
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,400
over and went to King's Landing,
ended poorly, but not in a way 

561
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,440
they could have predicted. 
And Quentin went to see Danny in

562
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,560
a really dangerous way, in a way
that I've always judged Doran 

563
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,440
for making that call. 
And it ended poorly, but again, 

564
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,320
not because of any fault of 
Danny or anything. 

565
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,000
But though she might get blamed 
for it, yeah, but yeah, you're 

566
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,520
right. 
So yes, treatment of envoys is a

567
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,000
it can be a casas belli, right? 
It can be a reason to start a 

568
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,160
war, or it can be a reason to 
claim the moral high ground or 

569
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,120
or what have you. 
Yeah. 

570
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,440
And it is a risk that Doran 
seems to or the Martells just 

571
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,680
seem to take left and right. 
So yeah. 

572
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,800
There's plenty of times in the 
real world where Envoy, the 

573
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,320
treatment of envoys has been 
horrible. 

574
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,360
Like they just like you go there
and like, Nope, we chop your 

575
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:05,200
heads off. 
Like that happened to some of 

576
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,760
Genghis Khan's envoys. 
Much to the future regret of the

577
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,840
people who did that. 
He really made them regret that.

578
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,480
But like, that's that's there's 
plenty of examples. 

579
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,960
In a song by some fire in our 
Mantaris episode, we talk about 

580
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,800
how Danny sent envoys to 
Mantaris and they were returned 

581
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,080
with their heads in a box. 
And well, I don't suppose 

582
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,560
Danny's going to look on that 
kindly. 

583
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,760
But Mantaris isn't really on her
way. 

584
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,600
Like, I don't know, she might 
have to let them get away with 

585
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,600
that, you know, I don't know. 
But that's something we talked 

586
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,320
about in that episode. 
So the voices in the Red Keep 

587
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,440
weren't even trying. 
They weren't even trying to be 

588
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,720
honorable. 
They weren't even trying for 

589
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,080
some semblance of nobility or 
anything like that. 

590
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,960
They're just letting themselves.
They're just venting and and 

591
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840
running their mouths about more 
atrocities. 

592
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,080
And here's what Aegon said 
quote. 

593
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,440
The king was weary of war, all 
men agreed. 

594
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,960
But granting the Dornish men 
peace without submission would 

595
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,400
be tantamount to saying that his
beloved sister Raines had died 

596
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,480
in vain, that all the blood and 
death had been for naughty. 

597
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,600
The Lords of his small Council 
further cautioned that any such 

598
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,440
peace could be seen as a sign of
weakness, and might encourage 

599
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,360
fresh rebellions, which would 
then need to be put down. 

600
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,200
Agon knew that the Reach, the 
Stormlands, and the Marches had 

601
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,760
suffered grievously during the 
fighting, and would neither 

602
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,440
forgive nor forget. 
Even in King's Landing, the King

603
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,120
dared not let the Dornish 
outside the Aegon Fort without a

604
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,280
strong escort, for fear that the
small folk of the city would 

605
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,080
tear them to pieces. 
For all these reasons, Grand 

606
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,800
Maester Lucan wrote later, the 
King was on the point of 

607
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,920
refusing the Dornish proposals 
and continuing the war. 

608
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,080
Yeah, that goes to show with 
what we were talking about with 

609
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,640
regards to the Peace delegation 
even being at risk on their 

610
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,720
travels. 
Maybe they took ship because 

611
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,480
they were like, yeah, we don't 
want to pass through the 

612
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,040
countryside where just any 
random people could attack us. 

613
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,920
They'd be stupid to do so. 
But that stupidity might come 

614
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
after, like the the penalty for 
that stupidity might come after 

615
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,040
they've already inflicted harm 
on the Peace Party. 

616
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,480
It's like, well, that was stupid
of them, but we're all going to 

617
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,440
die. 
A couple of things that matter 

618
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,000
here. 
The common folk clearly loved 

619
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,400
the Targaryens for the reaction 
to be like this for them to be 

620
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,080
so worked up about Dorne. 
Clearly the propaganda machine 

621
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,480
was working well on on their 
side making an enemy of Dorne 

622
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,160
even though they were the 
aggressor. 

623
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,760
And later in the episode we'll 
get into part of that why that 

624
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,080
is it's it's Rainy's in 
particular is the reason for a 

625
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,080
lot of this. 
She manipulated public opinion a

626
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,840
bit and it's still it's very 
interesting the people of King's

627
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,600
Landing were like this and again
I have to keep reminding us of 

628
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,240
this. 
King's Landing is new. 

629
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,120
It's this is now the 13th year 
the city has existed not very 

630
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,720
long. 
It doesn't have, like a long 

631
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,920
established identity. 
There isn't like a King's 

632
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Landing or like culture yet. 
It's a burgeoning thing. 

633
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,760
There aren't, like people out 
there that were born and raised 

634
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,480
in King's Landing and lived 
their whole life there. 

635
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,800
Yeah, I mean, if you're 20, you 
were born, you know you were, 

636
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,360
you were moved there when you 
were seven. 

637
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,640
You know, you spent most of your
life there. 

638
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,400
That's still, that doesn't 
really count in the, in 

639
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,880
Westeros, where places have 
existed for thousands of years. 

640
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,480
Like 13 years is nothing, even 
though it's already like the 

641
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,320
size of White Harbor or Gull 
Town that grew really fast. 

642
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,640
But they're already developing 
like this. 

643
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,120
This population is already 
growing like a personality, and 

644
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:37,400
it's starting to have like its 
own kind of unique vibe to it. 

645
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,520
I guess you could say, for lack 
of a better word, the 

646
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,920
population, of course, is going 
to continue to grow at a really 

647
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,960
rapid rate. 
But and in some ways that makes 

648
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,280
it unmanageable because of this 
constant flux and new people 

649
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,960
coming in all the time. 
We've we've talked about that a 

650
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,280
few times and it bears repeating
here. 

651
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,600
So it's a difficult spot for 
Aegon in terms of what mattered 

652
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,160
to him and in terms of what the 
realm wanted. 

653
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,000
In some ways, he created a 
monster. 

654
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,880
He started this war and got out 
of control, and now he got his 

655
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,800
people whipped up into a frenzy.
He got them so invested in the 

656
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,360
war that it's a risk to stop it.
They're all so ready to keep 

657
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600
going. 
And he wants he's kind of like 

658
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,080
I'm kind of ready for peace but 
everybody else is still like 

659
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,720
deep in it. 
They don't they don't want 

660
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,920
peace. 
So yeah that's why I say created

661
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,120
a monster. 
But clearly it wasn't a deal 

662
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,880
breaker for him right. 
Because he did accept the peace.

663
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,080
Just you know he may not have 
gone into it expecting to 

664
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,840
because the reasons why are a 
huge point of mystery and this 

665
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,080
mystery is a stand out in both 
the plot documents and you know 

666
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,520
mystery category. 
Mystery is a large category, 

667
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,040
plot documents Plotuments is a 
smaller subcategory. 

668
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,960
I mean consider how many 
important documents there have 

669
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,120
been like we did Rob's will as 
an episode a few months ago and 

670
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,960
that was a a really fun 1A big 
one. 

671
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,440
Robert's will is is also a big 
thing. 

672
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,600
The pink letter is another one 
that's huge. 

673
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,320
It's still in progress really. 
So yeah, the latter is a good 

674
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,960
example, In particular the Pink 
Letter, because of all the 

675
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,760
debate and theorizing that's 
that happens. 

676
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,960
Unlike the pink letter, we may 
not get answers on this one, 

677
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,840
whereas we probably will get 
some answers on the Pink Letter,

678
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,840
but maybe not. 
We'll have to wait and see. 

679
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,400
Anyway, let's talk about the 
mystery letter starting with 

680
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,440
quotes. 
It was then that Princess Daria 

681
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,800
presented the king with a sealed
letter from her father. 

682
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,480
For your eyes only, Your Grace, 
King Aegon read Prince Nymore's 

683
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,720
words in open court, stone faced
and silent while seated on the 

684
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,320
Iron Throne. 
When he rose afterward, men said

685
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,520
his hand was dripping blood. 
He burned the letter and never 

686
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,680
spoke of it again. 
But that night he mounted 

687
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,240
Valerian and flew off across the
waters of Blackwater Bay to 

688
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,840
Dragonstone upon its smoking 
mountain. 

689
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,840
When he returned the next 
morning, Aegon Targaryen agreed 

690
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,600
to the terms proposed by Nymore.
Soon thereafter, he signed a 

691
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,440
Treaty of eternal peace with 
Dorne. 

692
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,760
To this day, no one can say with
certainty what might have been 

693
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,600
in Darya's letter. 
So the order of events here is 

694
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,560
very worth taking into account. 
We're really trying to break 

695
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:16,440
this down. 
We should. 

696
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,280
We got a hyper fixate on the 
order of events and other things

697
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,159
like that. 
The way it's written, it sounds 

698
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:27,040
as if the Dornish envoys first 
asked for peace and then, after 

699
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,400
hearing the strong outcry 
against it, then gave the 

700
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,120
message over. 
It wasn't like they just handed 

701
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,800
all the stuff over at once. 
There was a little bit of a 

702
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,880
timing plan here, like they 
maybe weren't full. 

703
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,760
Maybe there was still a chance 
they weren't going to give this 

704
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,920
letter over. 
Or maybe had a different letter 

705
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,040
to give a. 
Set of letters and depending on 

706
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,199
which the reaction give, Yeah, I
hadn't considered that's a great

707
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,000
that's a great possibility And 
they may yeah. 

708
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,840
So they may have been reluctant,
as we'll show. 

709
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,480
Also known that note that the 
private message was very 

710
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,120
publicly delivered. 
Right. 

711
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,960
He it says he read it in open 
court. 

712
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,600
They gave him the option to say 
it out loud. 

713
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,640
They gave him the option to, you
know share it and they probably 

714
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,440
suspected he wouldn't. 
But I don't know. 

715
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,360
We don't know everyone, but 
everyone knows Aegon got a 

716
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,920
private message and that it 
affected him emotionally that he

717
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,760
he had a strong extreme reaction
to it, something that isn't 

718
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,920
typical for him. 
He is stone faced, composed, 

719
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,720
calm, Doesn't seem to be a guy 
that yells or just projects a 

720
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,360
lot of emotion in general, Just 
a very controlled person. 

721
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,800
Stoic. 
Stoic. 

722
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,400
Yes. 
Perfect word for him. 

723
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,920
Now we look this up to be sure, 
and it's not 100% clear. 

724
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,520
Still, Sean, I know you still 
have some doubt here. 

725
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,560
I think it's pretty clear that 
he was gripping the throne, but 

726
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,200
I can see the interpretation 
that he gripped the letter so 

727
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,560
tight. 
The problem with that is how can

728
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,120
he read it if he's gripping it 
so tight that it making him 

729
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,520
bleed? 
Yeah, well, I I it could be that

730
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,520
after he read it, he just 
suddenly clenched his hands and 

731
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,960
his nails dug and he just sat 
there for a moment, kind of 

732
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,360
processing it. 
I don't know, maybe that's 

733
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,080
stretched. 
But it's also weird to me that 

734
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,520
he wouldn't need to grip the 
iron foam thrown. 

735
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,520
Very hard to cut himself. 
People just accidentally cut 

736
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,680
themselves on it all the time. 
They. 

737
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,840
Would if he's wearing armor, 
which he would be because of all

738
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,800
the assassins. 
That's pretty well documented at

739
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,920
this point, so I think that that
would explain he pierced through

740
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,200
his gauntlet or whatever. 
He gripped it so hard that his 

741
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,360
hand with her. 
Maybe he's just wearing thick 

742
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,640
leather gloves. 
Either way. 

743
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,240
Also like how would it be noted 
that his hand was bleeding if he

744
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:27,960
had a armor? 
Not impossible, but he would 

745
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,440
have to be bleeding a decent 
amount. 

746
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,280
Which is also not very likely 
for your fingernails though like

747
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,520
if your own. 
Like, how is it gushing blood if

748
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:35,640
it's just your fingernails? 
So I. 

749
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,320
Also, he might be wearing armor 
but not be wearing gauntlets. 

750
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,440
He might have a breastplate and.
Sure. 

751
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,960
Yeah, that's true. 
Yeah. 

752
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,720
Part of my, and again this is, 
you know, I mean that's what 

753
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:45,840
we're doing. 
We're kind of nitpicking this 

754
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,840
but just in the it's a slightly 
different quote in the world of 

755
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,760
Ice and Fire, it says Princess. 
And just this phrasing is what 

756
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,480
made me initially because I read
this first too. 

757
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,480
So it's what got the idea 
planted in my mind that he 

758
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,840
gripped this artist, this 
Princess Deria placed in his 

759
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,160
hands a private letter from her 
father, Prince Naimor Aegon read

760
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,920
it upon the throne and then say 
that when he rose, his hand was 

761
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,040
bleeding so hard he had clinched
it. 

762
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,040
He burned the letter and 
departed immediately in 

763
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,160
Valerian's back for Dragon 
Stone. 

764
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,320
So like it like every sentence 
referenced to the letter. 

765
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,160
And in one sentence it says He 
gripped it so hard. 

766
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,280
Yeah, so. 
He read it upon the Iron Throne.

767
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,760
Iron Throne is the IT there, I 
think because that's. 

768
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,960
Then he clarifies it. 
That's a letter. 

769
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,520
He doesn't say he burned it 
afterwards, he doesn't continue 

770
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,720
that with the same it. 
And then he re establishes what 

771
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:31,840
the subject is anyway. 
You're right, let's not. 

772
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,400
Let's not get hung up on that. 
It is symbolically. 

773
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,280
Maybe better for him to cut it 
on that. 

774
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,960
I think so too. 
I think that's another argument 

775
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,640
for it. 
Yes, absolutely. 

776
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,320
Because it is. 
He's the man that decided a king

777
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,120
should not rest his. 
He designed this throne. 

778
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,760
So it is. 
It is does say a lot more. 

779
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,200
If he was so emotionally 
overwrought that even the man 

780
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,880
who knows this is a dangerous 
chair cut himself on it. 

781
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,280
Yeah. 
You were you going to say 

782
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,560
something A shame that that. 
OK, cool. 

783
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:57,360
All right. 
That. 

784
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,840
I think that you have to cut, 
you have to look through to the 

785
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,160
significance of it, the 
symbolism, and yeah, like it 

786
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,800
just is better for it to be the 
throne. 

787
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,280
Yeah, I agree. 
Either way, though, we agree 

788
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,720
that it's the strong emotional 
reaction that's like whether he 

789
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,040
gripped the throne or the 
letter. 

790
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,280
It was intense. 
Here is what the text suggests 

791
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,360
as possibilities quote. 
Some claim it was a simple plea 

792
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,040
from one father to another, 
heartfelt words that touched 

793
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,560
King Aegon's heart. 
Others insist it was a list of 

794
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,840
all those Lords and noble 
Knights who had lost their lives

795
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,600
during the war. 
Certain Septins even went so far

796
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,600
as to suggest that the missive 
was ensorcelled that it had been

797
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,400
written by the Yellow Toad 
before her death, using a vial 

798
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,040
of Queen Rainey's own blood for 
ink, so that the king would be 

799
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,200
helpless to resist its malign 
magic. 

800
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,240
Grand Maester Clegg, who came to
King's Landing many years later,

801
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,960
concluded that Dorne no longer 
had the strength to fight. 

802
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,960
Driven by desperation, Clegg 
suggested Prince Nymore might 

803
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,000
have threatened that should his 
peace be refused, he would 

804
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,840
engage the Faceless Men of 
Bravos to kill King Aegon's son 

805
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,680
and heir, Queen Renis's boy 
Aenis, then but six years old. 

806
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,000
It may be so, but no man will 
ever truly know. 

807
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,880
Thus ended the First Dornish War
4 to 13 AC. 

808
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:32,400
Let the record show that Azisi 
and I grimaced at each of these 

809
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920
potential explanations. 
Yes, if you're not watching a 

810
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,200
video, we were just like shaking
our heads. 

811
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,440
Some of these theories are 
terrible. 

812
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,920
Really. 
They're just kind of like, and 

813
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,840
these theories are old, like, 
not just the the ones suggested 

814
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,560
here, but in the fandom. 
Because again, this started with

815
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160
the world of Ice and Fire in 
2014, not with fire and blood. 

816
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,360
In 2018, Fire and Blood fired it
back up again, and Fire and 

817
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Blood Was was more widely read. 
So in some ways this was a 

818
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,040
bigger call to action to think 
about this. 

819
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,480
Regardless, yeah, we can. 
We can clearly discard some of 

820
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,920
these theories. 
And add a few that aren't 

821
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,640
mentioned, perhaps. 
But yeah, the whole simple plea 

822
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,920
from one father, like please. 
That is, there's no chance that 

823
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,080
this is what caused Aegon to 
grip the It's like, Oh my God, 

824
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,920
what have I done? 
Yeah, I don't think so. 

825
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,280
I really a list of all the Lord 
and Lords and Knights who had 

826
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,640
lost their lives. 
Also, I don't he's like really? 

827
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,200
John of N died and all these 
other guys I can't believe. 

828
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,000
It. 
Yeah, Like, no. 

829
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,080
Like, this is the man who 
torched 4000 men on the field of

830
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,240
fire. 
He's pretty well aware. 

831
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:33,800
He's like putting names to it. 
I really. 

832
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,400
I don't think that changes a 
damn thing. 

833
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,240
My question is, were Vasenia and
Amy's do you think at 

834
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,040
Dragonstone or at King's 
Landing? 

835
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,560
Probably. 
Well, Vasenia would be at King's

836
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,600
Landing a lot because she, she 
weighed in on this and it's kind

837
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,440
of unlikely that Amy's would be 
separate from him. 

838
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,080
So I think Amy's was there 
because it's, it's said that 

839
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,360
Egon had him around a lot. 
And yeah, I think they want to 

840
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,600
keep an eye on him, raising him 
to be at court and all that. 

841
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,280
But it's a good question. 
And it is possible that he 

842
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,640
showed up in a hurry, like if if
he didn't know Mary was coming, 

843
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,240
it was on Dragonstone. 
He might have come over quick in

844
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,640
armor, but without his son it 
might be a dangerous scenario to

845
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,120
bring his son into. 
That's true, he did say. 

846
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:14,640
We do know that he spent roughly
half his time on Dragonstone, so

847
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,720
it's very entirely possible that
that's the case, but he would 

848
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:20,800
have probably known. 
Time Quarter of time of 

849
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,480
Dragonstone. 
Quarter time of King Landing, 

850
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,240
half his time on the road. 
You're right. 

851
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,880
I'm sorry, half of his time not 
on the road was on Dragonstone. 

852
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,960
Yes, that is much more accurate 
so. 

853
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,440
But he would have known that the
delegation was on its way. 

854
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,240
They didn't wouldn't have shown 
up nowhere out of nowhere. 

855
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,880
I don't. 
Was that a reason why the Amy's 

856
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,680
would be a Dragonstone? 
No King's Landing or anything. 

857
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,360
No, but it's the reason Egon 
would be and and Amy's probably 

858
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,360
would be too, but maybe not. 
I'm just saying that's probably 

859
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,240
Egon would have already been 
there. 

860
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:48,200
He would have known they were 
coming. 

861
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,440
Yeah, I guess my question is 
just things that he would have 

862
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,120
wanted to check on at 
Dragonstone or or people to 

863
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,040
speak to at Dragonstone. 
Oh, after reading the letter. 

864
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,880
After reading the letter that he
would have gone home to to talk 

865
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,120
to Virginia, who actually was 
there, not at King's Landing, or

866
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,720
to make sure that a nice is in 
fact safe. 

867
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:05,800
But then you was definitely at 
court. 

868
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,920
She weighed in on. 
Or he would have gone there 

869
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,280
because he was worried about a 
stash of dragon eggs or 

870
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,000
something that they told some 
some knowledge that Rainey's let

871
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,640
slip about something they had at
Dragonstone that he wanted to go

872
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,080
check on. 
Some sort of, yeah, some sort of

873
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,360
that. 
That's that's one of the 

874
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,240
possibility. 
Possible clues is that they said

875
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:28,960
something that Aegon would would
want to go refer to. 

876
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,120
Yeah, that that's that's 
possible. 

877
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Like a phrase or some sort of 
something they they knew about. 

878
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:33,920
Yeah, that's definitely 
possible. 

879
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:38,080
Either way. 
The idea that sending his own 

880
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,320
daughter, and I'm more sending 
his own daughter as an envoy, he

881
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,800
may have thought that would 
carry more weight. 

882
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,320
He's like, look I'm, I'm taking 
a risk. 

883
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,760
I'm it's part of the peace 
process is we both make 

884
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,000
compromises. 
And I'm my, my own daughter, my 

885
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,920
own heir is here with you. 
You know you've got her. 

886
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,320
You know you can treat her with 
honor or not but I'm taking the 

887
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,600
risk and and staying sticking 
this out and yeah, getting to 

888
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,720
the theory. 
I think it's crucial for any 

889
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,560
theory to work. 
It has to explain Aegon's 

890
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,800
extreme reaction and yeah, and 
Sean, maybe a few other things. 

891
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,360
But to me that's the most 
important. 

892
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,960
It has to explain the gripping 
the throne or the OR his own 

893
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,640
hand to the point where he's 
openly bleeding. 

894
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,320
Not if it doesn't explain that 
it's not a good theory. 

895
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,160
That's the thing that matters 
most to me. 

896
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:27,400
I agree with that, but I do 
think other things that matter 

897
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,840
are it has to prompt him to not 
take Daria hostage and it has to

898
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,320
prompt him to go to Dragonstone.
I think those are two other 

899
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,440
things that happened that need 
explanation not as much as the 

900
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,480
extreme reaction, especially 
because both those things could 

901
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,920
have a lot of potential answers 
or less potential answers or why

902
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,520
he would have this emotional 
reaction. 

903
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,440
Yeah, I mean, I'm saying like, 
we don't know Aegon's 

904
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,240
personality enough that you 
could justify a lot of things. 

905
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,800
There's certain personality 
types that doesn't take a lot 

906
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,840
for them to go fly off and be 
alone. 

907
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,760
And yeah, he just. 
Wants to go think. 

908
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,560
Yeah, it might not be as drastic
of an action for him as we think

909
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,000
he might. 
There might have been lots of 

910
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,800
times where someone brought him 
something and he just like left 

911
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,200
and went to think about it 
alone. 

912
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,520
You know? 
It might not be that unusual for

913
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,920
Aegon. 
And to be clear, I don't like 

914
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,840
this theory, but if it was some 
sort of magic that could explain

915
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,280
it, you know what I mean. 
It is a possible explanation for

916
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,600
a weird emotional reaction if 
there was some sort of magic 

917
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,400
involved. 
But yeah, but it doesn't seem 

918
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:25,400
like a strong theory. 
I agree. 

919
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,080
But before we get into the magic
theory, let me say I don't 

920
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,720
really think it's a big deal 
that he didn't take her hostage.

921
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,360
I don't think anything needs 
that needs to be explained. 

922
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,240
That's the standard treatment of
envoys, which is do we really 

923
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,160
need an explanation for that? 
Well, you normally no. 

924
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,480
But in this case, when everyone 
at court thought it was the 

925
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,160
right thing to do, maybe like, I
feel like it's. 

926
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,440
An. 
Unusual scenario. 

927
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,880
Most people, all the senior 
people, all the people advising 

928
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,440
them, everyone had the, I don't 
know, position to speak out, 

929
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,360
right. 
The most senior, trusted, 

930
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,880
experienced, whatever people, 
they all thought it. 

931
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,160
Yeah, a lot of the senior people
are like, look, honors out the 

932
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,920
window. 
We're doing war crimes. 

933
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:01,520
We're doing, we're doing, we 
need to do. 

934
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,760
Well, well, that's that's, 
that's the thing that I want is,

935
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,080
was it something in this letter 
that made him be this way? 

936
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,640
No, because he already said that
before reading the letter. 

937
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,200
He didn't read the letter first.
He said that immediately before 

938
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:14,960
reading the letter. 
Yeah. 

939
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,560
So anyway, the Insorcel thing, 
yeah, I'm definitely down on 

940
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,560
that. 
Like you said, it's not a great 

941
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,840
explanation because that's one 
of those like, well, it could be

942
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,320
anything. 
Like, well, we can't trust 

943
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:24,320
anything. 
It going to be magic. 

944
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:27,320
The fact that George wrote it 
the way he did also really 

945
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,280
throws cold water on it because 
it's certain Septums, these are 

946
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,440
people who have no expertise in 
magic whatsoever. 

947
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,760
These aren't the people. 
If this theory came from the 

948
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,800
Citadel, I'd take it more 
seriously because that's coming 

949
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,960
from a place that has knowledge 
of magic, but these are just 

950
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,240
septons making crap up, you 
know, That's that's how it's 

951
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,920
worded to me. 
So I'm like, Nah, like you say, 

952
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,000
it's a fantasy setting, so we 
can't 100% dismiss it, but I 

953
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,480
think it's written as A to be 
dismissed just as the fringe 

954
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,280
opinions from the equivalent of 
the weekly World News. 

955
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,960
Like, let's record that because 
why not, you know? 

956
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,480
I'm I'm tempted to give it some 
small chance of potential 

957
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,640
because it was a thing that was 
thought to be suggested at all 

958
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,960
right. 
Just just that is something but 

959
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,480
it. 
But like you said, I think that 

960
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,480
it's George's including it as a 
thing to be dismissed. 

961
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,320
I just. 
I think there's a nice 

962
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,720
suggestion from Leah Rubenfeld 
in the in the chat right now 

963
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:21,640
that makes this kind of magic 
adjacent. 

964
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,360
If it was something about his 
prophecy, about Aegon's prophecy

965
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:31,000
for example, yeah, like that is 
magic adjacent in some ways, but

966
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,880
just the idea that they had 
Renice alive enough that she 

967
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,960
told them sensitive information 
and that maybe even that relates

968
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,840
to him wanting to go to 
Dragonstone to check someone who

969
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,160
knows, But regardless that that 
would be enough to to bring him 

970
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,120
back to Earth. 
I think that I had supposed that

971
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,200
before, that that might be one 
reason why Aegon kept pushing 

972
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,800
this war is because he had seen 
something in a vision that made 

973
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,960
him think he was supposed to do 
it like that. 

974
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,800
All the kingdoms have to be 
united to do this. 

975
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,400
So whatever the losses were, he 
just kept going anyway, 'cause 

976
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,560
he thought he had to. 
And I wasn't thinking in these 

977
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,360
terms yet, but maybe that was 
something in the letter, was 

978
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:11,360
something to just prove that or 
look at it a different way. 

979
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,200
Or Randy's had her own. 
Derry had her own vision. 

980
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,880
Or some other person, you know, 
I don't know, but. 

981
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,640
The idea that he signed an 
eternal peace with Doran is an 

982
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,720
interesting thing to consider in
light of that he maybe was 

983
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,720
giving up forever on the idea 
not that that was upheld by 

984
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:32,400
either side, but at the time he 
might have been conceding the 

985
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,760
idea that Dorne needed to be 
controlled for that prophecy to 

986
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,000
be fulfilled. 
Or that maybe he had conceded to

987
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,480
the idea that it would be 
hundreds of years still, so that

988
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,320
he he wasn't concerned. 
Or that it doesn't require 

989
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,120
conquest for Dorne to join. 
We can have peace forever, and 

990
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,800
you still might join us. 
Right. 

991
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:50,480
OK. 
Yes. 

992
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,720
As long as they're like allies, 
as long as they work together 

993
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:54,400
can still that's a good point. 
Yeah, I like that. 

994
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Now let's move on to the 
Faceless Man suggestion which 

995
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,960
comes from the Grand Maester 
Clegg, which it's also pointed 

996
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,160
out the Grand Maester Clegg was 
not a part of this. 

997
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,680
He he's writing after the fact. 
This is many years later. 

998
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,520
He does no personal information 
here. 

999
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:13,560
Maybe he saw some notes or got 
books from other sources that 

1000
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,040
were relevant. 
But this is just an A theory 

1001
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:22,080
that came along later, which 
already throws a little costs it

1002
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,400
a few points. 
I think now it's not a terrible 

1003
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,240
idea. 
It's just like like it's better 

1004
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,000
than the magic idea 'cause 
unlike magical pages, we know 

1005
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,080
the Faceless Men exist. 
That's a real thing for sure. 

1006
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,440
That's a specific form of magic 
that's real, and we've seen them

1007
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,000
kill and they're really good at 
it. 

1008
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,080
It's definitely a flawed idea 
though, 'cause like, why didn't 

1009
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600
they do this before? 
Why wait for Myriad to die to 

1010
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,160
try this? 
And there had been so many 

1011
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,440
assassinations on both sides 
anyway, Just apparently not with

1012
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,680
Faceless Men, is it? 
Possible that Myriad was just 

1013
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,880
like really vindictive and just 
was torturing Rainy's and was 

1014
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,880
like, no, I just want to torture
this woman. 

1015
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,480
I don't want to. 
Yeah, I don't know, like. 

1016
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,560
It's possible. 
And the elders? 

1017
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:01,680
Like, we're not giving her up, 
we're. 

1018
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,640
Yeah, like if and Maria was 
agreed, they were all like, no, 

1019
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,080
we want to like, torture this 
woman, Yeah. 

1020
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,800
I don't know. 
And then, and they're not going 

1021
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,240
to tell anyone that they have 
her, Yeah. 

1022
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,560
Yeah, 'cause then that guy will 
just ruin, like then they'll 

1023
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,280
come attack them. 
You know, they have her. 

1024
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,840
I don't know. 
I mean, like it's messed up to 

1025
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,760
think about someone just wanting
to do that, but that's 

1026
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,880
definitely possible for people 
to just be that cruel. 

1027
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,880
Yeah, maybe Maria didn't like 
the maybe she was opposed to the

1028
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,680
idea for some reason, like she 
just thought killing maybe, like

1029
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,200
she liked assassination. 
She's fine with that. 

1030
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,480
But she's like, well, Doran is 
not going to assassinate a baby,

1031
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:36,560
you know, that's We're not going
to be known for that. 

1032
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,240
That's too far even for war 
crimes, you know, to the 

1033
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,080
situation. 
She might also just be against 

1034
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,360
the idea of using a Fazelman for
assassinations. 

1035
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,640
We'll do it ourselves. 
Yeah, that's possible. 

1036
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,280
Another although you know, 
another potential. 

1037
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,280
You know, Maybe it hadn't been 
considered yet by her or anyone,

1038
00:49:53,480 --> 00:50:00,400
but the worse it got, the less 
of a cost it is for Dorne to 

1039
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,960
employ the Faceless Men. 
So that might be one reason they

1040
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,080
didn't do it sooner, because 
they're finally at the point 

1041
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,040
where, well, it doesn't matter 
anyway now. 

1042
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,480
They're relative. 
Giving up to 2/3 of everything 

1043
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,520
you own has become a very small 
amount. 

1044
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,400
If you have $3,000,000 and you 
have to give up to million, I 

1045
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,680
don't know about that, but if 
you have $30, you have to give 

1046
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,280
up 20, all right. 20 bucks to 
assassinate a Prince? 

1047
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,240
Yes, that's a great deal. 
Act now before while supplies 

1048
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:28,000
last yeah and but but think 
about how Aegon handles threats.

1049
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,320
He's like, he downplays them. 
He's like, I'm I'm not worried 

1050
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,040
about that. 
Like Visenya had to cut his face

1051
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,640
to get him to agree to make the 
Kingsguard. 

1052
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,240
Like after multiple times 
they've been attacked in the 

1053
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,880
streets and Lords been sat, he's
still like, Nah, we're fine we 

1054
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,000
can tough it out. 
I don't want to be weak about 

1055
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,720
it, like let them come, you 
know, so, So to for him to grip 

1056
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:53,760
the throne or the message to 
make his hand bleed a threat 

1057
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,000
doesn't really add up for me. 
And I think just in. 

1058
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,120
General even the threat of the 
Faceless Man, which he might 

1059
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,520
take more serious than other 
threats, it still seems a little

1060
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,280
much the one, the way he reacted
and two, well, I guess maybe 

1061
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,560
there would still be a reason 
for him to fly to Dragonstone if

1062
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,240
it was a Faceless Man threat. 
Like like if Amy's was still a 

1063
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:15,800
Dragonstone, he would go checker
and the letters like, 'cause I 

1064
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,240
go crap, let me go make sure 
Amy's is safe, you know? 

1065
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,440
But he didn't say he brought him
back with him either, right? 

1066
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,760
That wasn't. 
He didn't. 

1067
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,600
Yeah. 
I think he was probably just 

1068
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,320
there at court anyway. 
But yeah it's that does make 

1069
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,320
sense as an option. 
I certainly wouldn't be so sure 

1070
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,520
that I would say now that theory
couldn't possibly be it. 

1071
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,480
But so the so the the suggestion
that was made when she crashed 

1072
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,560
when were actually was shot down
is that she was still alive, 

1073
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,600
that they kept her alive to 
torture her or to use her as 

1074
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:41,840
leverage. 
Now the weird thing would be, 

1075
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,240
well, why did they wait so long 
to use this as leverage? 

1076
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,800
But it's still, that's not like 
a deal breaker, not a theory 

1077
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,240
breaker idea. 
It's like, well, there's plenty 

1078
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:51,520
of reasons why they didn't want 
him to know or. 

1079
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,720
They might have wanted to break 
her for information, too. 

1080
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:54,640
They. 
Were trying to get something out

1081
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:54,960
of her. 
Yeah. 

1082
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,000
They were trying to might have 
taken a. 

1083
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,200
While she's strong and they she 
didn't break for a long time. 

1084
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,880
And that is a fairly good 
explanation, I think that at 

1085
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,920
least could address this 
possible flaw in the idea. 

1086
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,880
And it could also just be the 
change in leadership like Maria 

1087
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,800
didn't want to do. 
Use this tactic at all. 

1088
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,560
She didn't want to use the rainy
says alive tactic or whatever, 

1089
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,640
and Nymar was willing to for 
whatever differences of opinion 

1090
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:20,960
they might have had behind the 
scenes. 

1091
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,080
I don't know what it is, but I 
really like the idea of their 

1092
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,520
being like something on 
Dragonstone that Rainey's told 

1093
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,240
them about. 
You know? 

1094
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:33,280
Like, I mean my my weird little 
head cannon is because I I don't

1095
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,280
know, I guess because of daemon 
having stuff to do with like 

1096
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,160
hatching Dragons. 
I just like the idea of there 

1097
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,720
being like dragon hatchery and 
like a store of dragon eggs or 

1098
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,480
something. 
And Rainey's told them where the

1099
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:47,000
dragon eggs are and he goes and 
he's like OK, like I I need to 

1100
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,440
stop this for that reason. 
I don't know. 

1101
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,160
Yeah, it's possible. 
Sean, what do you think about 

1102
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,160
the how do you do you think it's
plausible that they could have 

1103
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,240
kept it a secret that she was 
alive, that is that a flaw or 

1104
00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:00,400
maybe flaw? 
I quote this all the time. 

1105
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,320
Benjamin Franklin said that 
three people can keep a secret 

1106
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,000
if two of them are dead. 
I mean, I guess it's plausible, 

1107
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:12,240
but I think it's highly unlikely
because one, any random witness 

1108
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,120
to the dragon falling from the 
sky, any of the soldiers, anyone

1109
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:21,320
that was present for that is 
likely to have also seen that 

1110
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,640
she was still alive or taken 
hostage or something. 

1111
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,680
I think that would have been a 
crowd gathering moment when the 

1112
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,440
dragon gets shot down and the 
likelihood of there being dozens

1113
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,880
of witnesses to see that she 
was, she survived that somehow. 

1114
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,280
I was like, maybe not. 
Maybe only three people saw it 

1115
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,320
and none of them saw whether she
lived. 

1116
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,880
Still someone had to go out 
there and get her body, bring it

1117
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,920
in. 
Was it Lord Uller himself or 

1118
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:51,120
just don't bring to Lord Uller 
in secret and. 4 Lord Uller's 4 

1119
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,960
Lord Uller's were assassinated, 
which implies that there were 

1120
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,520
people that were maybe willing 
to talk around him. 

1121
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,360
Like if they're willing to kill 
him, then yeah, they could spill

1122
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,720
the beans about Rainey's now one
argument against what you're 

1123
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:04,800
saying. 
It's not a full argument against

1124
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:05,960
her. 
It's like it's a counterpoint. 

1125
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,480
Semi counterpoint. 
Is that the hell Holt's pretty 

1126
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:09,920
isolated. 
It's in the middle of the 

1127
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,720
desert, so it's a little easier 
to control information in a 

1128
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:14,440
place. 
Like, and the Dornish population

1129
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,280
is scattered about hiding from 
dragon flames. 

1130
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,880
Or, you know, again, I do think 
that there is some convoluted 

1131
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,480
way. 
It's possible, but but but it 

1132
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,840
does Marian know. 
Maybe that's why Mary didn't do 

1133
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,560
anything, 'cause she didn't 
know, 'cause if that would be 

1134
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,920
another person who has to know 
if they send a messenger, and a 

1135
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,440
messenger has to tell someone 
and Mary has to not tell Mary 

1136
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,640
and that messenger have to not 
tell anyone else. 

1137
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,640
Yeah. 
There's two things there. 

1138
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,040
One, yeah, some of that time 
could have just spent, like 

1139
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:45,280
she's imprisoned by the Ulers. 
Mario doesn't know for one year 

1140
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,880
of that. 
And then she finds out and then 

1141
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:49,880
there's a transfer that takes 
some time. 

1142
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,320
And then she then and then Rainy
has held somewhere else for the 

1143
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,480
rest of that time. 12 The ullers
could have never had control of 

1144
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,840
her and they immediately handed 
her over, which explains how 4 

1145
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:02,800
ullers could die. 
And Rainy and. 

1146
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,520
Secret be. 
Held be held is that they never 

1147
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,160
actually kept her. 
That whole time she was in a 

1148
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:12,280
dungeon he was held captive. 
Any other place like doesn't 

1149
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,440
have to be the hell hold. 
So I agree Sean, there's a 

1150
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,240
there's this a little bit of 
trouble in it, keeping it a 

1151
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:19,120
secret. 
Now they may have wanted to keep

1152
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,520
it a secret because they would 
have been maybe afraid that 

1153
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,400
allowing Aegon to know that he 
was she was alive might have. 

1154
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,240
They might have been worried 
that he would go even harder 

1155
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,840
like he would burn Sunspear. 
He would actually use Valerian 

1156
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,240
to destroy castles like he had 
Harrenhal, instead of just 

1157
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,280
messing them up really badly, 
you know, like he could go 

1158
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,200
harder than he had. 
And they were like they maybe 

1159
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,120
have been wary of that. 
I think that's what he would 

1160
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:40,840
have done. 
Yeah, I think it's entirely 

1161
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,200
possible. 
And if we bring that forward to 

1162
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,760
now, to end the moment to at 
court, that explains potentially

1163
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,800
why they didn't just lead with 
this. 

1164
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,400
Because they were worried that 
his reaction would be to kill 

1165
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,240
them, to just throw them in 
jail, to murder them in in 

1166
00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:00,280
madness like in in despair or in
in suffering. 

1167
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,480
You know, he's like, you did 
this to my my beloved, off with 

1168
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,320
their heads, or I'm going to do 
the same to you. 

1169
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,160
So yeah, that explains a lot of 
their hesitation, why they 

1170
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,640
didn't just give him the letter,
why they maybe why Miria didn't 

1171
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,400
want to enact this plan at all, 
you know, because she predicted 

1172
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,120
that, Nah, he's just going to go
harder. 

1173
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:19,720
He's going to just kill the 
envoys. 

1174
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:21,720
Like, what's the point? 
I'm not sending someone there to

1175
00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:24,840
die for a message that will be 
received like that. 

1176
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,120
Maybe she was, it turns out 
maybe that she was wrong. 

1177
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,080
Maybe. 
And sending the the heir 

1178
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,960
apparent to die also, right? 
Like, not just a messenger, but 

1179
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,600
like this key important person. 
So I think it's a pretty huge 

1180
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:36,960
point. 
Yeah, go ahead. 

1181
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,760
This is what I think. 
I think that Rainey's if she 

1182
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,880
survived, she didn't survive 
very long. 

1183
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,800
They may have captured her and 
or tortured her, but I don't 

1184
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,440
think they held her for years or
transferred her to sunscreen 

1185
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,800
anything like that. 
But I think they might have 

1186
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:58,880
gotten information from her that
only she could know, right? 

1187
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,360
Or pretty much only she could 
know that. 

1188
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,040
And that that information might 
have been slow moving. 

1189
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,560
It might have been kept under 
wraps or been hard to transfer 

1190
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,800
to Maria. 
Maria may have never found out, 

1191
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,320
but eventually someone does find
out. 

1192
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:17,360
Nine more finds out and he 
realizes that this could be a 

1193
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,160
threat that they can make an 
imminent threat right Like not 

1194
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,800
will get you or will torture 
rainies. 

1195
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,880
The threat could be that based 
on information they got from 

1196
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,680
her, they found a secret passage
into Dragonstone and put a 

1197
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:38,200
scorpion into annies bed or a 
secret patches into where the 

1198
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,520
Dragons eggs are kept and they 
know it's just some 

1199
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,720
demonstration that we can get 
you. 

1200
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,960
It's not the idea this 
information, it's not the 

1201
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:50,880
specific idea, right? 
We have someone there right now.

1202
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,880
Right now someone is in 
Dragonstone with a poison dagger

1203
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,320
and you might go catch him. 
He might not kill Amy's right 

1204
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,680
now 'cause he happened to be at 
court. 

1205
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,200
But we can do it again, and we 
know because Rainey's told us 

1206
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:07,040
how to get through this passage.
Does that does this still cause 

1207
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:08,960
an extreme reaction? 
Is this this is still a threat 

1208
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:10,880
though that I don't think he 
would respond to a threat with 

1209
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,440
an with emotional being 
overcome? 

1210
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,720
I think that it's because what 
he'll go through in his head is 

1211
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,720
it? 
Only I can stop this, and I have

1212
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,920
to right now. 
No one else can. 

1213
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,520
I can't sail a ship to. 
Dragons. 

1214
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,880
But would he react that strongly
before confirming the threat is 

1215
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,640
real just at the letter? 
Like such? 

1216
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,840
Like this is a stoic man. 
This is a stoic man. 

1217
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,800
The only way to confirm it is to
go there and see if the poison 

1218
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,280
dagger is in the crib or if this
whatever you see what I'm saying

1219
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:40,400
like. 
He's got to go. 

1220
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,600
You go to see that we left this 
item there to prove. 

1221
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,000
Well, how's that different than 
the Faceless Man threat, though?

1222
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:46,520
Like the Faceless Men are going 
to be able to. 

1223
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,240
One term thing that might happen
eventually. 

1224
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:49,480
But the Faceless Men are so 
certain. 

1225
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,120
Plan for or, defend against or. 
There's no defending. 

1226
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,840
Well is is there though? 
There's really no defense 

1227
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,120
against the Faceless Men. 
I I don't. 

1228
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,200
I I've I'm partly with you on 
this one. 

1229
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,160
I like the idea of a concealed 
like a a thing that's proves 

1230
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,400
they can get this level of 
access. 

1231
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:05,760
But I think that's already 
there. 

1232
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,440
I think that's already there 
with the face, and I think that 

1233
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,920
Aegon just doesn't respond to 
that, so. 

1234
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:13,760
We take it back to the prophecy 
angle on it, the idea that they 

1235
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,360
also kept ratings for a while, 
whatever got information from 

1236
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,560
her, but the information 
intersected with something to do

1237
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:26,720
with prophecy and to do with how
Doran would be brought into the 

1238
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,520
realm. 
So we talked about a bit before 

1239
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,360
the idea that like if there was 
something that was like you and 

1240
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,840
your vision, you saw Doran as 
being brought in the realm. 

1241
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,240
But actually ratings has had 
some dream. 

1242
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,200
She also dreams and she saw that
Doran won't be in the realm for 

1243
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,360
100 years. 
What you know? 

1244
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,200
Yeah. 
Or or maybe they saw that it had

1245
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,440
to do with a red comet and Agons
like, oh, there's some comment 

1246
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,400
in the writings, the carvings on
the wall at Dragonstone. 

1247
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:55,800
And then there's like a 
calendar. 

1248
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,240
And he's like, oh, it's not 
going to be for 200 years. 

1249
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,880
Well, there were, to be fair, 
there were lots of other 

1250
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,120
comments before that one that 
wasn't the first one. 

1251
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:04,280
Yeah. 
Like there was one in Rhaegar's 

1252
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:05,000
time, too. 
Yeah. 

1253
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,800
But anyway, although still way, 
way, way later, long enough. 

1254
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,360
Well, there would have been 
others, I think too. 

1255
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:11,680
I'm just saying that wasn't the 
only one. 

1256
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,800
The idea though being that there
was some sort of prophecy 

1257
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,720
related information that would 
make Aegon realize he doesn't 

1258
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,920
need to press this right now, 
right here, and that there was 

1259
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,920
something to corroborate that 
and what he was, yeah. 

1260
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:26,960
Yeah, that's possible. 
I like. 

1261
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,920
That, but I still don't know if 
that gives the same clincher 

1262
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,360
fist to bleeding. 
That's why I think it all has to

1263
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:33,600
come back to Rainey's being 
alive. 

1264
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,080
I think it's the only thing that
works. 

1265
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,760
It's the only thing that would 
cause that kind of emotional 

1266
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:38,920
and. 
So OK, here's my thought. 

1267
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,520
Is that what would Rainey's? 
What would they have had to say 

1268
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,280
for if Rainey's is alive at the 
point of that letter? 

1269
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,080
I can't. 
I don't know what secret words. 

1270
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,440
What if it's her handwriting? 
Yeah, well, I guess what does 

1271
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,520
she have to say in that letter 
to convince that? 

1272
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:56,840
She's alive. 
Kill the. 

1273
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,080
Invoice right now. 
Well, that wouldn't save her 

1274
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:00,560
though. 
Like they he he has no way to 

1275
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,240
save her, that that's clear. 
Like if he's been, if he's 

1276
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,400
unaware she's even alive for 
this couple of years and he's 

1277
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,840
down in some dungeon and what 
way he has no means of saving 

1278
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,040
her. 
It's just not possible. 

1279
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,560
So then why? 
They would if you can't save her

1280
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,600
anyway. 
Because they're offering to put 

1281
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,000
her out of her misery in 
exchange. 

1282
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,400
That's the deal they're saying 
we're stop torturing her. 

1283
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,320
We'll put her out of her misery.
We won't let her live in pain 

1284
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,080
again. 
And if you end the war, that's 

1285
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:23,960
the deal. 
And I know it's just really hard

1286
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,640
to find another another 
explanation that settles that 

1287
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,040
Settles checks off all the 
boxes. 

1288
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,440
That's better, I think, than 
pretty much all the others. 

1289
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,600
But I still have this big 
problem with I don't. 

1290
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,120
I don't think that's. 
I don't. 

1291
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:36,360
I think he would change his 
mind. 

1292
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,720
He's like, wait, what? 
Seize Daria, chop her hand to 

1293
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,560
chop everyone's hand off. 
Put her in jail. 

1294
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,040
Sin and Own voided Dorrance. 
Why would you be so sure? 

1295
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,280
Like, what evidence does? 
Do you have that egg on? 

1296
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,440
Would ever behave that way? 
He's never done anything like. 

1297
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:52,800
Well my is my question is like 
put her out of her misery is 

1298
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,680
it's put her out of her misery 
now Better than some slim but 

1299
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,960
unlikely chance that you 
actually managed to rescue I I 

1300
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:00,320
don't. 
Know. 

1301
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,080
No. 
Not if she's like, broken and 

1302
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,240
and horribly disfigured and just
suffering anyway. 

1303
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,000
And there's there's she's going 
to suffer no matter what. 

1304
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,760
I know, but I just it's it can 
be hard to communicate the 

1305
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,640
severity of that to Aegon in a 
letter. 

1306
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,560
If she wrote the letter, that's 
why I'm saying, that's why. 

1307
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,200
I'm saying if she wrote it, it's
her handwriting, then he would 

1308
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,560
believe whatever is written. 
And if it's guys, look, I'm in 

1309
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,760
mad, I'm suffering, I'm in 
horrible pain. 

1310
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,360
Please end this. 
I know. 

1311
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,200
And I'm also saying that it's 
also perfectly reasonable and 

1312
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,480
within the line of believability
for someone to hear your partner

1313
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,600
say that, know that your partner
said that and still be like 

1314
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,000
she's being too noble. 
Like, I actually do think I can 

1315
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,520
save her. 
Like it's yeah, that's not how 

1316
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,440
it played out. 
But I'm just saying like, it is 

1317
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,720
impossible that he would see all
of that, believe that it's her, 

1318
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,480
and still be like, no, I'm going
to save her. 

1319
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,360
Which is why they. 
Which explains why they didn't 

1320
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,480
just go for this option right 
away. 

1321
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,320
Which explains why Maria wasn't 
for this idea. 

1322
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,200
Because you can. 
She could see it not working, 

1323
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,240
yeah. 
Also, Mary might not have known 

1324
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:01,760
this is an option. 
Now we want to keep that in mind

1325
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:02,800
too. 
She might not have known that 

1326
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,480
Raining is even still alive, but
some loose ends to this is it? 

1327
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,480
How can he be certain that they 
will comply A and if they don't?

1328
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,240
Comply. 
He can just go right flat, jump 

1329
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:15,680
back on Valerian and attack them
again. 

1330
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,040
There's nothing stopping him 
from doing. 

1331
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,840
That how does he know that they 
put her out of misery or not? 

1332
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:20,920
Yeah, he does that. 
He does. 

1333
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:22,520
Their invoice come later, say, 
hey, we did it. 

1334
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:24,880
Did they deliver the body 'cause
we never get the body. 

1335
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:25,880
Back yeah. 
No. 

1336
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,880
And he goes on with the rest of 
his reign. 

1337
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,200
Like, maybe secretly it was 
delivered later. 

1338
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,600
We never found that out. 
You see what I'm saying, though?

1339
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,000
That is like, I think that's a 
hole in this. 

1340
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,120
Sure it's true. 
I think it's better than the 

1341
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:38,640
others. 
Maybe the face name might be 

1342
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,400
better, but. 
I don't think that. 

1343
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,440
Things here, Fox and Grambles 
says. 

1344
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,040
Maybe the letter was in 
Valyrian, which is nice angle to

1345
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,320
it as well. 
Like with plenty of people can 

1346
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:51,320
write Valyrian, but I like that 
too, Leah Rubenfeld says. 

1347
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,000
Perhaps she was alive for longer
than he thought, which is what 

1348
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,440
we were talking about, but was 
dead by the time of the letter. 

1349
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:58,920
Basically, I'm not sure that 
would stop him. 

1350
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,600
I don't know how that would move
him if he was dead, unless he 

1351
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,000
didn't know that if she if they 
lied. 

1352
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,520
Final wishes or something? 
And he respected her actual 

1353
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,400
final wishes, or something like 
that. 

1354
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,480
The other reason I really think 
it's the best idea is that it 

1355
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,520
gets into one of the central 
themes of A Song of Ice and 

1356
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,960
Fire, which none of the other 
theories do even remotely, which

1357
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,920
is love versus duty. 
His duty is to this prophecy. 

1358
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:23,640
His duty is to fulfill the 
prophecy. 

1359
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,160
But he loves Raines more than 
that. 

1360
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,160
And he is not the one quote, UN 
quote one in 10,000 that Maester

1361
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,480
Raymond said to John, You're 
like my father would always do. 

1362
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,080
It's honorable. 
Well then your father was one 

1363
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,480
man in 10,000. 
Most people will do will choose 

1364
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,280
love over duty. 
Most people will do this and 

1365
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,760
that and so Aegon is just like 
he's not the one in 10,000, 

1366
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,600
which is very George RR Martin, 
right? 

1367
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:49,040
He says yes, he chooses love 
over duty and doesn't tell 

1368
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:50,440
anyone. 
Then they don't know. 

1369
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:53,560
So there's no, there's no way 
for them to know that that he 

1370
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,520
did that made that choice 
because he hasn't even revealed 

1371
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,320
the prophecy to people. 
So they he why he couldn't 

1372
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,440
possibly reveal that thing. 
If he hasn't revealed the 

1373
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,000
prophecy, he can't reveal his 
logic behind fulfilling it or 

1374
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,640
not. 
I just thought of yet another 

1375
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:04,800
problem. 
What's that? 

1376
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:11,160
Say He's like OK fine, I'll stop
the war as long as you stop 

1377
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,480
torturing her and and maybe 
they'd sent some evidence. 

1378
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,560
Also you got to consider why 
they would keep want all this to

1379
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,320
be secret not a public 
announcement and and I can see 

1380
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,360
why that might be but and then 
so maybe that explains why later

1381
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,440
secretly they deliver the remain
somehow. 

1382
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,040
But my problem is after that, 
then he'd be like, all right, 

1383
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,080
let's go back to war. 
Send the dragon. 

1384
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:32,840
Why would he do that? 
Why would he do that, Sean? 

1385
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:34,080
He's honorable. 
At every turn. 

1386
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:35,520
He's proven. 
He keeps his word. 

1387
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,120
This is not his personality. 
This doesn't fit his his meth, 

1388
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,160
his modus operandi. 
Like, he's not that kind of guy.

1389
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,240
He's not like, I will make a 
deal so that I can break it 

1390
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:44,880
later. 
He doesn't do that. 

1391
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,120
Like there's no, there's just 
nothing. 

1392
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:47,760
There's no precedent for that in
his behavior. 

1393
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,040
OK, so but what? 
Yes, it does beg a question. 

1394
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,160
Was it a threat? 
Was it like, if you we'll put 

1395
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,480
her out of her misery if you 
agree, if you don't, we'll keep 

1396
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,400
torturing her. 
So it's not just a yes, it's 

1397
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,160
over or no it's not. 
It's a She's going to continue 

1398
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,360
to suffer horribly if you don't.
So I think a threat is part of 

1399
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,920
it. 
It's not just we have her, it's 

1400
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,880
we're going to keep harming her.
She's going to suffer for a long

1401
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,080
more time. 
And yeah, you're right to show 

1402
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,400
the. 
Confident that that you could 

1403
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,080
never find her to stop it 
yourself, I guess. 

1404
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,200
Well, I mean look at what 
happened when they tried to send

1405
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,720
an army like Valerian alone 
wouldn't do it. 

1406
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,600
Like you can't like you got to 
get down there in the dungeon 

1407
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:23,680
and this this takes this is a 
commando array to. 

1408
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,640
Say that it speaks a lot to 
Aegon's personality and to what 

1409
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,400
could be said there, because 
like a lot of people in that 

1410
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:34,200
situation would be headstrong 
about that and think that they 

1411
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:38,560
could stop it themselves. 
Whether it was wise or accurate,

1412
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,520
they would still be determined 
to try some. 

1413
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:42,920
People, which might be why he 
went and thought about it for a 

1414
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,120
while. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1415
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,120
And didn't react because he they
have wanted to do that. 

1416
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:47,600
And you know he did have the 
extreme reaction. 

1417
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,000
But he's like, look, this is 
This is why he needs to go think

1418
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,200
because Egg on the Conqueror 
doesn't get all emotional at 

1419
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,000
court. 
He's Egg on the Conqueror, he's 

1420
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,400
stoic and he's like in a not 
stoic moment there. 

1421
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,880
He needs to go behind closed 
doors and be emotional where 

1422
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,520
people can't see it. 
And you know another piece of 

1423
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,560
this too, 'cause I think you 
even bring up the idea later of 

1424
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,320
like, does he tell Lisania even?
Lisania. 

1425
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,480
Yeah, I don't know. 
He might realize he can't 'cause

1426
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:15,640
she will just fly her dragon 
down there and burn Castle, 

1427
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,000
right? 
Like, so she Yeah, that's part 

1428
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,800
of what he has to process is 
that he has to figure this out 

1429
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,080
on his own. 
He can't tell anyone. 

1430
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,800
It could be a real Ned Catlin 
thing where Ned never told 

1431
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,440
Catelyn the truth about he 
promised not to tell. 

1432
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:29,120
I mean, this isn't this. 
He didn't necessarily promise. 

1433
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,880
Egon didn't necessarily make a 
promise, and you don't have to 

1434
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,800
agree with Ned keeping that 
promise, but that does seem to 

1435
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,160
be the reason he didn't tell 
Catelyn is he made a promise and

1436
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,800
whatever was thinks it's a risk 
to John or whatever. 

1437
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:41,920
In any case, it's a similar sort
of thing. 

1438
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,720
Letter from Rainies written by 
Rainies and like in Valerian 

1439
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:47,640
even or whatever if she wrote it
to him. 

1440
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,360
If she wrote it. 
Don't tell Visen. 

1441
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,280
Yeah, you know, she could have 
outright said those words. 

1442
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,920
She could have also been like, 
look, I, you know, don't do 

1443
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:58,720
anything that's going to get my 
son killed. 

1444
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,320
Like get, you know, it's fine. 
Yeah, There's a lot of things 

1445
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:01,880
she could have written that 
would have, that would have 

1446
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,240
convinced him or been like, this
is my dying wish or I don't 

1447
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,200
know. 
Yeah, I like the idea of it just

1448
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,680
being Rainy's expressing her 
like final wishes, because I do 

1449
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,360
think it parallels things in the
main series of A Song of Ice and

1450
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:17,000
Fire. 
Well, it's idiotic, as I think 

1451
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,680
people caring about dying wishes
truly are when there's lots of 

1452
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:24,720
alive people to think. 
I think it worked out for the 

1453
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,000
best in this case and in the 
worst in some. 

1454
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,000
In Ned's case, perhaps, yeah. 
So when we talk about who's 

1455
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:36,479
being on Dragonstone, I I still 
think a nice was very likely at 

1456
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,399
King's Landing. 
But Megor might not have been 

1457
01:08:38,399 --> 01:08:40,720
Megor. 
Baby Megor might have been on 

1458
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,359
Dragonstone. 
Probably not though he probably 

1459
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:44,560
was with his mother who was also
probably at the Red Keep. 

1460
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,920
Anyway, I don't know that we 
have any more to add to the 

1461
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:50,960
letter. 
I think that's the the we've 

1462
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,880
talked about a lot of different 
theories a lot of the issues 

1463
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,640
with the theories and I think we
mostly seem we seem to agree 

1464
01:08:55,640 --> 01:09:00,479
that the some formulation of the
Rainey's was alive thing is the 

1465
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,240
best idea. 
Not we don't necessarily agree 

1466
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,520
on all the particulars of of the
of what would make that work. 

1467
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,279
But that seems to be we seem to 
agree that that's the best 

1468
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:12,640
theory categorically or any way.
I'm going to throw out one other

1469
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,040
part. 
This is new for me to be 

1470
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,640
considering this. 
This might be too Tim Foily, but

1471
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,880
I wonder if there's a 
possibility that the deal was to

1472
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,120
let her live. 
She's has just has a new 

1473
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,319
identity in Dorne, you know. 
She just. 

1474
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:26,960
I don't know if seems. 
Impossible. 

1475
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,439
She looks like a Targaryen. 
Like there's just she's just too

1476
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,439
she's silver haired, purple 
eyed, it says. 

1477
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,880
I don't think that works too. 
Too few people look like that. 

1478
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:36,439
She's very distinct. 
Everybody knows what she looks 

1479
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,960
like Anyway, let's see. 
So yeah, but Zenya may not have 

1480
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:41,160
known, but Zenya may never have 
been told. 

1481
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,080
Was in the letter. 
Now, some people in Dorne knew 

1482
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,800
maybe only Nymore himself. 
At least Nymore knew, though 

1483
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:50,760
there's at least one other 
person who knew it was in the 

1484
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,680
letter, but probably more like 
Daria may not have known it was.

1485
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,440
He may he may have sealed the 
letter and been like, give this 

1486
01:09:56,440 --> 01:09:58,920
letter to the king, No one else 
is going to read it. 

1487
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,320
Maybe his maester knew. 
Maybe his maester wrote the 

1488
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:02,440
thing down. 
He dictated it. 

1489
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:04,520
But maybe he just personally 
wrote it himself, Who knows? 

1490
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:07,080
This is another problem with us 
not having the Dornish point of 

1491
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:08,400
view. 
This is fire and blood, not a 

1492
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,240
book called Unbowed, unbent and 
broken. 

1493
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,600
If it was, well, we would know a
lot more about this, I think. 

1494
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,720
And yeah, there might be some 
people that pass down this 

1495
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:17,960
information just like, you know,
the Targaryens pass down the 

1496
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,680
prophecy. 
You know, kind of secretly maybe

1497
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,680
the the Dornish kept some of 
this song. 

1498
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,160
It wouldn't be as important. 
This isn't some important state 

1499
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:27,720
secret to keep later. 
Like, yeah, we had Rainey's back

1500
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,480
in the day. 
It was it really that was true. 

1501
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:31,120
Like, what would that matter 
now, you know. 

1502
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,520
Yeah, especially the Targaryen. 
For a generation or two wouldn't

1503
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,640
matter for 50 years. 
That's true, but not not when 

1504
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,680
the Targaryens have fallen many 
years later. 

1505
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,400
Yeah, there's also some machara 
Dane vibes here. 

1506
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,720
I mentioned Ned and Catelyn, but
just to fulfill that a little 

1507
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,040
more, you have an important 
character whose death is fairly 

1508
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:51,920
certain. 
If the circumstances are very 

1509
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,760
mysterious, and you have a 
powerful man who loved that 

1510
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,960
person that won't talk about it.
That keeps it all to themselves.

1511
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,440
And yet, there are some people 
in Doran that probably have 

1512
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:03,640
answers, just like there's nine 
more. 

1513
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,480
And maybe some other people know
what's in that letter. 

1514
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:07,960
There's a few people in Dorne 
that know about the Tower of 

1515
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,320
Joy, or at least have some 
additional information, whether 

1516
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,680
it's Willa or other members of 
House Dane. 

1517
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:16,680
There's a few people that know 
how. 

1518
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:17,680
And Reed. 
Yeah. 

1519
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,360
And in both cases, there's a 
child involved and death by 

1520
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:21,880
falling or maybe death by 
falling. 

1521
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,560
In both cases, we don't know if 
they died by falling or. 

1522
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,200
Yeah. 
Anyway, Yes. 

1523
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:30,760
And they both have purple eyes. 
There you go. 

1524
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,720
There you go. 
All right, I want to say there's

1525
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,840
might be a little Lord of the 
Rings play here. 

1526
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:40,760
The IT may be so, but no man 
will truly ever know talking 

1527
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:42,400
about what's in the letter. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

1528
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:44,800
No, man, But maybe some woman 
will know. 

1529
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,600
Maybe some woman, Yeah. 
In fact, yeah. 

1530
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,360
So Nina says we should not 
expect to ever get an answer for

1531
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:52,040
this. 
And I agree. 

1532
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,360
It's not. 
It's not part of A Song of Ice 

1533
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:54,920
and Fire. 
So I I kind of doubt we'll ever 

1534
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,240
get a true answer. 
But that's fine. 

1535
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:57,520
We shouldn't have all the 
answers. 

1536
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:58,560
Sweet. 
You know, it's fun to have 

1537
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,840
things that we just get to 
debate and talk about. 

1538
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,920
Well, I guess if they did be 
right, if they did like the 

1539
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:05,480
season or about. 
Egg on the Conqueror. 

1540
01:12:05,480 --> 01:12:08,080
Yeah. 
On TV, whether the argument 

1541
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,360
would be how accurate if they 
just came up with their own 

1542
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:15,280
solution, it would come down to 
whether George told the creator,

1543
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,120
Yeah, that'll be a whole other 
topic. 

1544
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:19,880
They could have just come up 
just it plays out like that and 

1545
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:21,400
we never still we don't know in 
the letter. 

1546
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:24,600
Yeah, yeah, they could show it 
and keep it a mystery. 

1547
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,360
On screen, there's a lot of 
options. 

1548
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:28,840
But they wouldn't be able to 
keep rainies as being alive or 

1549
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:30,080
not a mystery. 
I don't. 

1550
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,120
Think no, I guess you're it. 
Would be too hard to like on TV.

1551
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,160
That would be very unsatisfying 
to just like, keep us in the 

1552
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:35,400
dark about whether she was 
alive. 

1553
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:37,600
Or not, yeah. 
Yeah, and also I don't really 

1554
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:44,520
know where I think of the big on
the Conqueror arc ending like TV

1555
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,920
wise like. 
Yeah, maybe around this part. 

1556
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,480
Like if it's just peace from 
here on for next. 20 years 

1557
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,800
later, so yeah. 
Anyways, I I think if this is 

1558
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,600
revisited it'll be on screen and
not in the text. 

1559
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,560
Yes, and in this context we can 
accept it as an interesting, 

1560
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,160
mysterious footnote. 
But if they made a show about 

1561
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:06,360
it, it would be like an 
unanswered, climactic moment. 

1562
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,520
You know, I think you're right. 
Or sure, they can't leave this 

1563
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,400
unaddressed in the show. 
I've been looking into some of 

1564
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:15,800
the ingredients in Magic Mine, 
because when you hear that 

1565
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,240
something's going to improve 
your brain functions, you know 

1566
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,280
you want to get some evidence 
for that. 

1567
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,680
It's a pretty big claim, and I'm
going to highlight Bacopa 

1568
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,000
Monieri. 
It's a plant that grows pretty 

1569
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,680
much on every continent, not 
Antarctica. 

1570
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:32,840
I don't know if you really need 
to clarify that these days. 

1571
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:37,040
I think you should say yeah, 
even Antarctica when that 

1572
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:42,080
matters, but otherwise, no. 
And it has a background in 

1573
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,120
Ayurvedic traditional medicine 
with the claim that improves 

1574
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:49,600
memory and other assorted brain 
functions. 

1575
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,120
Which again, is a pretty big 
claim, and traditional medicine 

1576
01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:57,000
isn't always accurate. 
But here's where it gets 

1577
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,120
interesting. 
Yeah, there's been, you know, so

1578
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:00,880
many people in Indian Asia use 
it. 

1579
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,560
There's a big sample size and 
they've done some research and 

1580
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,360
there's something to it. 
It does seem to have some actual

1581
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,280
effects and it's the type of 
thing. 

1582
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:10,880
Also, it might be hard to 
measure because apparently it 

1583
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,480
takes about two weeks for it to 
like, I don't know, kick in a 

1584
01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:15,600
gear in your system. 
Yeah, and they are. 

1585
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:19,440
These are systematic reviews on 
Bacopa, Lani area that we're 

1586
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:21,840
talking about, which is the 
highest level of research. 

1587
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,360
If you're looking at something 
from a research perspective, you

1588
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:27,360
have like a pyramid and the top 
of the pyramid is systematic 

1589
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:28,640
reviews. 
That's the highest level of 

1590
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:30,640
trust. 
So we're not talking about just 

1591
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,440
anecdotal evidence and 
traditional medicine. 

1592
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:35,440
We're talking about top of the 
line, science y'all. 

1593
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,120
So and you know, I mentioned 
kind of anecdotal, you know that

1594
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,400
this is much less scientific, 
but I probably could make it 

1595
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:44,520
scientific. 
I'm drinking less sodas. 

1596
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,040
I've only noticed it because I 
just realized I'm just putting 

1597
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:50,080
less cans into the recycling. 
But I can maybe get more 

1598
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,480
scientific and figure out how 
many I was drinking before and 

1599
01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:55,120
how many are drinking now. 
But I I will say I feel like I 

1600
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:58,480
have more, more focus in the 
gym, get less tired in the gym 

1601
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:00,800
and I am drinking less soda. 
So those are two pretty big 

1602
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,520
positives. 
Yeah, I've found it to be really

1603
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:07,800
effective in my daily life. 
I really enjoy drinking it every

1604
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:09,480
day. 
You can go to 

1605
01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:17,080
magicmind.com/westeros and get 
up to 56% off your subscription 

1606
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:21,080
for the next 10 days with our 
code Westeros 20. 

1607
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:25,720
That's Westeros 20. 
OK, so let's talk about our 

1608
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,360
topics moot. 
That's underway on our Patreon 

1609
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:30,760
right now. 
We've had three polls so far. 

1610
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,400
The first one was the undead. 
The choices were Cold Hands, 

1611
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:36,640
Lady Stoneheart and Lightning 
Lord, and the Kyborg, meaning 

1612
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:38,360
Robert Strong get Gregor 
Clegane. 

1613
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:40,840
The next one was unfinished 
history of Westeros, where we 

1614
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,320
have existing series that are 
not finished and the choices 

1615
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,240
were Nymeria's Landing, The 
Blood of Giants, The Wit and 

1616
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,920
Wisdom of Dolorous Ed, and the 
Defiance of Cersei. 

1617
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:54,720
And this, this Friday, this past
Friday, that would be Friday the

1618
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,680
2nd of February. 
We put out a Roberts Rebellion 

1619
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:02,320
era poll that has the topic 
choices Sack of King's Landing, 

1620
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,000
The Tower of Joy, The Abduction 
of Liana, and The Siege of 

1621
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:08,640
Storm's End. 
So your fellow W Orians have 

1622
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:10,280
been voting on these topics all 
week. 

1623
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:13,480
You can join in the fun by 
signing up at 

1624
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:17,520
patreon.com/history of Westeros 
and choose the level pledge 

1625
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:22,000
amount that is best for you and 
start getting benefits and 

1626
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,640
voting in polls. 
Other benefits include bonus 

1627
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:27,880
episodes and access to our 
scripts and shout outs. 

1628
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:29,400
Things like that. 
Good fun stuff. 

1629
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:35,120
You also get the audio only ad 
free versions of these episodes 

1630
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,800
a little bit early, like we 
released these to pay. 

1631
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:42,400
We released these to the public 
Sunday nights, but you get these

1632
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:46,200
on Patreon just a few days 
earlier on average, so that's 

1633
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:48,480
relevant. 
Yeah, if I can sway the vote. 

1634
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,360
I'm rooting for the wisdom of 
Dolores. 

1635
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,360
Ed, I want to win. 
So right. 

1636
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,880
On No Nymeria wins. 
It's looking like Nymeria's to 

1637
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:58,040
win that one, but it's it could 
happen, you know, you never 

1638
01:16:58,040 --> 01:16:59,360
know. 
Things change. 

1639
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:03,600
So another poll that we have 
coming next week to entice you 

1640
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,200
all further is a poll on 
influences on George R Martin 

1641
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:09,760
that includes topics. 
A large poll that has a lot of 

1642
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:14,800
choices includes such choices as
HP Lovecraft, Jr. 

1643
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,480
Tolkien, Robert E Howard, 
Several others. 

1644
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:20,440
It's like 8 or ten choice. 
K Penman. 

1645
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:22,480
Chair and K Penman. 
Yeah, there's a lot. 

1646
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:25,160
I didn't actually put the list 
in front of me like these other 

1647
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:26,240
ones, but there's a lot of 
choices. 

1648
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,840
I didn't want to list them all 
anyway, but leaving a few 

1649
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,360
unknown is fun. 
So yeah, that'll be popping up 

1650
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:34,600
this week. 
Authors, by the way. 

1651
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:36,560
Yeah, these are all just 
authorial influences. 

1652
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:39,400
There's another influences poll 
that will be like historical 

1653
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,960
influences and stuff like that. 
So yeah, so this is just a. 

1654
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,320
Nom or. 
And each of these polls lasts 

1655
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:47,440
the week with past ones. 
So you could Join Now. 

1656
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:49,640
If you're listening to this, you
can still join us. 

1657
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:54,000
And if you're listening to this,
a year later, six months later, 

1658
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,000
if it's January, February, we're
probably doing the topics again.

1659
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,600
So this is an Evergreen plug. 
Yes, absolutely. 

1660
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:04,840
And yeah, we're we're going to 
do a variety of styles of polls,

1661
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:06,600
different choices. 
We're going to do some brackets.

1662
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,720
This current week we're going to
have three polls where the top 

1663
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,920
the two two topics are going to 
win on Monday and Wednesday each

1664
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:14,840
and then they're all going to or
three rather three are going to 

1665
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:16,520
win Monday and Wednesday and 
then they're going to all meet 

1666
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,040
at the end. 
And for one bigger poll, yeah, 

1667
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,960
so we're we got all sorts of fun
formats and and different twists

1668
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,880
and fun ways to do polling and 
then we'll make episodes out of 

1669
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:27,520
these things. 
So yeah, that'll be good too. 

1670
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,000
We also had a little fun just 
looking at randomly. 

1671
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:31,760
This is super random. 
We're playing with acronyms. 

1672
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,000
So you all can decide which of 
these acronyms for Dragon is the

1673
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:36,680
best. 
Let's let's read these out for 

1674
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,640
you. 
Deadly reptile, always guarding 

1675
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,120
our nobility. 
That's my favorite. 

1676
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:45,640
Or dangerous reptile always 
growing on nourishment. 

1677
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,040
Yes, that fits, cause Dragons 
keep growing as long as they 

1678
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:51,880
eat. 
I like devastatingly rare animal

1679
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:56,360
gathering others nearby. 
Some people who are maybe the 

1680
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,000
Dornish would agree with this 
one. 

1681
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,200
They when they if they said 
deadly ruler, awful, great, 

1682
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,560
oppressive, nagging. 
Yeah, maybe not the great, but 

1683
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,240
all those other ones. 
Too much great, no oppressive 

1684
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:10,680
and nagging. 
The great doesn't really fit 

1685
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:12,560
with all the others. 
You. 

1686
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,280
Said. 
God awful. 

1687
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:18,440
God awful. 
There we go. 

1688
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,160
Awful and God, awful, awful God 
awful. 

1689
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:27,640
Deadly ruler, awful God awful. 
Oppressive, Nagging that would 

1690
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:28,960
be like deadly ruler. 
Awful. 

1691
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:30,800
God awful, oppressive. 
Not oppressive. 

1692
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:38,200
Yeah, and Dorn, if it was 
Dragons, plural, the S would be 

1693
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:38,760
shunned. 
That's. 

1694
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,240
Right, I love it if y'all would 
comment with your favorite 

1695
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:46,560
acronym for a dragon. 
A dragon. 

1696
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:52,640
So let's also take note that the
delegation that that arrived in 

1697
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,000
King's Landing for the peace 
process brought back Meraxis's 

1698
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:58,880
skull, which means that it 
wasn't a small delegation. 

1699
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:00,800
It would have had a large cart 
with that. 

1700
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,680
Or if it was by ship, that might
make even more sense. 

1701
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:08,240
We first see Meraxis's skull in 
Tyrion's memories in I think his

1702
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:09,840
first chapter in A Song of Ice 
and Fire. 

1703
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,760
Maybe it's his second when he 
thinks of being down there in 

1704
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,680
its presence. 
And it's obviously smaller than 

1705
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:19,080
Valerians and and Miraxis is 
alone is enough to inspire awe 

1706
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:20,400
in him. 
Must have been quite a sight 

1707
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:22,600
though, seeing a delegation 
carting that thing up. 

1708
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,200
So when when Nina pointed out 
earlier that Lord Orius may have

1709
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:28,720
discovered or found out that a 
delegation was coming this is 

1710
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:30,360
part of why they might have. 
He might have found out it's 

1711
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,240
very well, it's quite a 
spectacle with a skull and all 

1712
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:33,840
that. 
Yeah. 

1713
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:38,040
And compare John Aaron going to 
Sunspear early in Robert's reign

1714
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:42,000
to with the bones of Luan 
Martel, Prince Luan Martel to 

1715
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,280
put things at ease cause the Red
Viper was stirring some things 

1716
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,400
up with the Saris and maybe you 
know continuing the war. 

1717
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:51,640
So this was a way to tamp things
back down. 

1718
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:55,960
And yeah I remember I mentioned 
that the eternal peace with 

1719
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,600
signed by Aegon was not 
particularly held up by either 

1720
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:01,560
side. 
We pointed out many of Aegon's 

1721
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,880
descendants would just pick a 
fight with Dorne, but Mauryon 

1722
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:07,280
Martel would as well pick a 
fight with 17. 

1723
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,480
Not really. 
Much of once it's Jahari's found

1724
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:13,400
out about it and the ships were 
all burned. 

1725
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:17,680
So you know, that's why we call 
him Moron Martel. 

1726
01:21:18,440 --> 01:21:22,840
But yeah, moving on to the 
legacy of Miria, we've got the 

1727
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,680
legacy of Miria and the legacy 
of Rainey's. 

1728
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,360
For the rest of this episode, 
let's have a quote Start it off.

1729
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:31,360
The yellow toad of Doran had 
done what hair in the black, the

1730
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,280
2 kings and Torren Stark could 
not. 

1731
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:39,360
She had defeated Aegon Targaryen
and his Dragons, yet north of 

1732
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:43,320
the Red Mountains, her tactics 
earned her only scorn. 

1733
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:47,600
Dornish Courage became a mocking
name for cowardice amongst the 

1734
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,240
Lords and Knights of Aegon's 
kingdoms. 

1735
01:21:50,440 --> 01:21:53,840
The toad hops into her hole when
threatened, wrote one scribe. 

1736
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:58,200
Another said Miria fought like a
woman, with lies and treachery 

1737
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:02,080
and witchery. 
The Dornish victory, if victory 

1738
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:06,040
it was, was seen to be 
dishonorable, and the survivors 

1739
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,120
of the fight, and the sons and 
brothers of those who had 

1740
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:13,040
fallen, promised one another 
that another day would come, and

1741
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:16,760
with it A reckoning. 
Their vengeance would need to 

1742
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:22,320
wait for a future generation and
the accession of a younger, more

1743
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,560
bloodthirsty king. 
So this is a good example of 

1744
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:28,120
copium, copious amounts of 
copium. 

1745
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,040
Another way to put it is 
excuses. 

1746
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,520
Excuses. 
They lost and they're salty 

1747
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:34,320
about it, so they denigrate the 
winners. 

1748
01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:36,720
And yes, it was a victory, this 
victory in quotes. 

1749
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,560
And if a victory it was, the 
objective was to prevent the 

1750
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,040
Targaryen from conquering their 
country. 

1751
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:44,040
And they did it. 
Clear bias by the author Maester

1752
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:46,200
here. 
They absolutely the darnish one.

1753
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,560
That was totally a darnish 
victory. 

1754
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,200
It doesn't mean you benefited, 
it doesn't mean you like did 

1755
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:52,480
great, but it means you defeated
the opponent, which they 

1756
01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:54,160
absolutely did. 
They wouldn't have won it. 

1757
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:58,040
They didn't win. 
To repeat the example about 

1758
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,640
Vietnam, which we've brought up 
several times in throughout the 

1759
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,640
course of this, the US was also 
very salty about You find people

1760
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:05,880
that today will say, no, we 
didn't lose in Vietnam. 

1761
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,880
No, we just it was it just 
ended. 

1762
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:11,480
You know, it's like, no, you 
didn't really accomplish your 

1763
01:23:11,480 --> 01:23:14,400
objectives, so you you. 
Might be able to argue it was a 

1764
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,680
stalemate, but you could not 
argue that you won. 

1765
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. 
So, not to simplify the 

1766
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:21,640
comparisons though, because the 
US wasn't trying to conquer 

1767
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:22,640
Vietnam either. 
It wasn't. 

1768
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:24,920
There's a lot of things that 
aren't very similar here, like, 

1769
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,360
you know, technology and 
circumstances. 

1770
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,360
But still, it it's a similar 
situation that a lot of people 

1771
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,520
could identify with because, 
well, most of our listeners are 

1772
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,080
from America and probably know 
people that have said similar 

1773
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,680
things about the Vietnam War. 
If we go back to ancient times 

1774
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:42,480
in in the real world, it's more 
like a Pyrrhic victory where, 

1775
01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:45,360
you know, Puris was the 
aggressor in this case too. 

1776
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,640
So unlike the Dornish, but it's 
the same kind of thing. 

1777
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,440
Puris won victories but lost so 
many soldiers that it was like 

1778
01:23:50,440 --> 01:23:53,200
well if I went have another 
victory or two like this I'll 

1779
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:56,520
I'm out of AI don't have 
anything you know it has 

1780
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:00,480
accidental word play too cause 
Puris literally means related to

1781
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:04,120
or pertaining to fire his name 
and of course there's a lot of 

1782
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:09,080
that here and the fire is part 
of why it was such a devastating

1783
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:12,200
victory. 
So Dornish courage is impressive

1784
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,920
despite what this passage says. 
These these voices, these takes 

1785
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,440
about victory. 
It was these are from people who

1786
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:19,480
bent the knee after losing to 
Aegon. 

1787
01:24:19,480 --> 01:24:24,160
They're salty as well, because 
they lost and the Dornish 

1788
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,040
didn't. 
To admit Dornish courage is to 

1789
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:29,960
admit their own loss, You know, 
maybe not cowardice, but their 

1790
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:33,520
own, you know, failure. 
And the bloodthirsty king 

1791
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:35,760
mentioned in the final line of 
that quote is, of course, Daron 

1792
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:39,920
the First whose war ended not 
unlike this one did in failure, 

1793
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,320
with countless dead on both 
sides after thinking they had 

1794
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:44,520
won. 
They were like, oops, no, you 

1795
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,080
didn't. 
A lot less damage done to 

1796
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,080
Dornish lands under Daron. 
The first, though, of course, 

1797
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,720
because of the lack of Dragons. 
But yeah, it says they would 

1798
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:54,080
have to wait for a future 
generation. 

1799
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:56,640
They weren't waiting. 
They were long dead. 

1800
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:00,440
I mean, this is 144 years later 
that that happened. 

1801
01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:02,280
So yeah, this is, I don't know 
if they have. 

1802
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,160
I don't know how much of A 
grudge they still held. 

1803
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:06,160
It's like, yeah, my grand, 
great, great, great, great, 

1804
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:07,960
great, great grandfather was 
killed indoor. 

1805
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:09,200
And I'm going to get you all for
that. 

1806
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:10,480
It's like, what was his name 
again? 

1807
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:16,480
Oh, I don't, I don't know, Daron
Pate. 

1808
01:25:16,480 --> 01:25:19,560
I don't know. 
But you can say this is part of 

1809
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:24,880
Miria's legacy. 
She LED Dorn so stubbornly and 

1810
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:29,160
well, perhaps you could say 
effectively that no one tried 

1811
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:30,920
again as long as they had 
Dragons. 

1812
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,640
At least not affected. 
Like with any sort of real 

1813
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,600
effort, you know nothing that 
really rises to the level of 

1814
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:40,960
true conquest. 
Attempt and then post. 

1815
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:42,480
Intention. 
Is that the word you look? 

1816
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,520
Yeah, yeah. 
And then post Daron that the 

1817
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:48,560
attempts were really pathetic. 
You got Aegon the 4th, who just 

1818
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:52,160
wooden Dragons that caught fire 
and set the set the Kingswood on

1819
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:53,520
fire. 
Like, that is just some weak 

1820
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:55,760
sauce right there. 
Like, talk about a failure. 

1821
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,320
Like if Aegon can't do it, 
you're going to do it with that 

1822
01:25:58,320 --> 01:25:59,680
plan. 
I mean, please. 

1823
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:04,120
So yeah, you got lots of just 
failures and and but but most 

1824
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:05,280
people didn't even make the 
attempt. 

1825
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:07,720
They're like Aegon the Conqueror
couldn't do it. 

1826
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,360
And Rainey's died down there. 
Yeah, I don't want any of that. 

1827
01:26:10,440 --> 01:26:13,080
I'm not even going there. 
Let's not even try. 

1828
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,240
And all those Brad things got 
their hands chopped off, yeah. 

1829
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:17,640
Like, the Tyrell Army just 
disappeared. 

1830
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:19,080
There's a lot of deterrent, 
yeah. 

1831
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:20,760
Yeah. 
So it took a very special person

1832
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:24,120
and special circumstances for 
them to fire that all up again. 

1833
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:27,120
And they still had the same 
result, basically. 

1834
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,560
Like, yeah. 
Special in quotes, by the way, 

1835
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,680
because I don't know that should
have too much positive 

1836
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:33,760
connotation. 
Yeah. 

1837
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:35,480
So we. 
And we can't know what would 

1838
01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:37,040
have happened down there. 
A lot of other things. 

1839
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:38,840
There's plenty of differences 
between the two scenarios. 

1840
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,000
But they, they did have similar 
endings. 

1841
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,440
And again, we don't have the 
darnest side of things. 

1842
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:45,680
How do they remember Princess 
Maria? 

1843
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:48,320
Did they look at her as the 
yellow toad, or do they think of

1844
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:50,120
that as like a positive thing? 
Because it's the. 

1845
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,120
They called her that, but we'll 
own that nickname. 

1846
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,240
Yeah, she was the yellow toad, 
but that's a good thing. 

1847
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:55,320
They let him. 
You know what? 

1848
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:58,400
We'll own that nickname. 
Like Tyrion owns the insults 

1849
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,520
leveled on him. 
Like, yeah, just wear it like 

1850
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:01,400
armor, you know? 
Yeah. 

1851
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:02,520
She was the yellow toad. 
Fine. 

1852
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:05,840
You all lost to the yellow toad.
What does that say about you? 

1853
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:07,160
Right. 
Yeah. 

1854
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:09,840
Yeah, right. 
So I like that. 

1855
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:11,560
I call it the Yellow Dragon 
Killer. 

1856
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:14,280
Yeah, the yellow of. 
Course we lost it. 

1857
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:15,520
The dragon killer. 
What we're gonna. 

1858
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,280
Do yellow toe defeats the 
meraxes? 

1859
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:23,840
I mean, yeah, right. 
So I I suspect they probably 

1860
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:28,600
think well of her, maybe not 
hero status but maybe a leader 

1861
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:32,280
who embodied unbowed, unbent and
broken, you know, in a in ways 

1862
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:34,360
that few others could. 
I mean they'd really, truly 

1863
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,200
didn't give up. 
I mean that's that's living up 

1864
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:38,800
to those words you might connect
that those two dots. 

1865
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,880
Like her leadership is the 
reason the Targaryen stayed out 

1866
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:44,280
for so long. 
And that's if they recognize 

1867
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:46,760
that, then yeah, she's got to be
remembered. 

1868
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,400
Well, like, this is the person 
that fought the Dragons and won 

1869
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:51,320
and kept them out, and this is 
the reason we're we were 

1870
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:52,960
independent and free for so 
long. 

1871
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,920
This is the reason why we got to
marry in later, because they 

1872
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,800
kept trying and kept failing and
Mary is the one who really 

1873
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:02,280
showed us we could hold out and 
we did it again later and blah 

1874
01:28:02,280 --> 01:28:04,400
blah blah, yeah. 
I got to say, though, if you're 

1875
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:08,560
born into Dorn and this is your 
legacy and your hero, sure, I 

1876
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,080
guess that's what you have to be
proud of. 

1877
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:14,280
But if I was choosing, I don't 
want to serve under the unbowed,

1878
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:19,040
unbroken. 
Let All your people die banner. 

1879
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:23,040
Like let me be in the Growing 
Stronger or the Preparing for 

1880
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:26,080
Winter Troops City. 
We're not trying to burn 

1881
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:27,840
ourselves to death just to be 
independent. 

1882
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:32,400
More stuff to me at least. 
Yeah, and Speaking of like 

1883
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:37,000
Nymore and later, Diria would 
have a huge burden to bear to 

1884
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:38,760
help rebuild their country, 
right? 

1885
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,840
And it was very devastating. 
And the other Lords adorned as 

1886
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:43,840
well wouldn't just be on them, 
but they would be, you know, the

1887
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,760
tip of the spear, the leaders of
that. 

1888
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,640
But each individual Lord and 
each of individual peasant would

1889
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,480
have to rebuild as best as they 
could and a lot of that would 

1890
01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:54,000
just take multiple generations, 
you know. 

1891
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:57,600
So I mean we jumping forward in 
time there, there's not a lot of

1892
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:00,440
us to talk about with regards to
Dorne in the short term, but 

1893
01:29:00,440 --> 01:29:04,960
there will be here and there 
Dorne pop it up for different 

1894
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:06,960
reasons and that's something 
we'll have to continue or 

1895
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:10,400
continue to consider is signs of
how Dorne is recovering. 

1896
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:14,920
Anytime we get Dorne ish events 
in the next generation or two, 

1897
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:17,960
we'll have to wrap that up into 
the knowledge that this is still

1898
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:20,080
a country in recovery. 
Because I doubt even 2 

1899
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:22,720
generations would be enough for 
a full recovery that takes that 

1900
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:24,520
long for some of the trees to 
grow back. 

1901
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:28,600
You know, let alone the 
buildings which don't grow back.

1902
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,960
They have to which. 
Require trees first. 

1903
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:33,600
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
Yeah. 

1904
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:35,840
And there's not a lot of trees 
down there in the 1st place 

1905
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:37,280
anyway. 
That's that's important. 

1906
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,000
Mary's legacy benefited in a way
from her dying. 

1907
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:43,160
When she did. 
She didn't have to be part of 

1908
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:44,040
the recovery. 
She was. 

1909
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:48,480
She died at a point that was 
pretty poetic, right? 

1910
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:51,320
Right at the end of the war. 
It's like her death is 

1911
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:54,960
inextricably and forever tied to
the end of the war. 

1912
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:59,680
And so she never gave up and the
war ended as soon as she gave 

1913
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,680
out, basically. 
And that's that's very symbolic 

1914
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:04,000
too. 
That's that makes for a good 

1915
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:07,040
story. 
I think a lot of songs, you know

1916
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,800
when The Yellow Toad finally 
gave out the War end, you know, 

1917
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,360
it's just something cool. 
I'm not going to write the 

1918
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:15,440
lyrics right now, but I think 
you see you can see there's a 

1919
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:19,240
lot to work with there in terms 
of good songwriting material. 

1920
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:22,880
Aziz, I want you not only to 
write the lyrics right now, but 

1921
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:26,280
do it all with Dragon acronyms. 
Yes, right. 

1922
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:27,640
All the lyrics to Dragon 
acronyms. 

1923
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:31,120
Well, we need it to be. 
There's no, there's no yell. 

1924
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:33,320
There's a Why we can't do Yellow
Toad and the Dragon. 

1925
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:35,000
There's no Maria, You can't. 
None of those fit in the 

1926
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:35,760
acronym. 
Dang it. 

1927
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,040
Yeah. 
I didn't say it. 

1928
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:40,120
Dragon. 
You didn't say it would be easy,

1929
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,640
so certainly there's Dragon. 
Dragon. 

1930
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:46,040
Me and Dragons to get an S and 
AY. 

1931
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:52,920
Dragon yeet YT. 
So the style of warfare worked. 

1932
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:55,520
You're not going to argue, Doran
into like, oh, you cowardice 

1933
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:57,800
style of warfare. 
You guys should stop doing it 

1934
01:30:57,800 --> 01:30:59,760
that way because it's cowardly. 
Like yo, this worked. 

1935
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:02,040
We're not stopping that. 
We're not going to. 

1936
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:03,800
This is the only way you can 
beat Dragons. 

1937
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:05,120
We're definitely not giving this
up. 

1938
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:07,000
Even when the Dragons are gone, 
we're going to keep doing this. 

1939
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:08,400
Yeah. 
So I doubt they were too 

1940
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,840
concerned about the negative 
opinions coming from north of 

1941
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:13,800
the Red Mountains. 
They're like, yeah, keep barking

1942
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:18,880
losers, you know, keep whining. 
Hurts, doesn't it? 

1943
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:21,000
Well, we're hurting too, so we 
don't care. 

1944
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:23,520
All right. 
The legacy of Rainey's, let's 

1945
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:25,400
talk about that. 
And including the effects of her

1946
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:26,760
absence. 
So this is a big deal. 

1947
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:31,240
Like Mary's absence was the 
beginning of the peace process. 

1948
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:35,880
I suppose you could say let 
Rainey's absence, well, it it, 

1949
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:38,040
it was the beginning of things 
getting worse for a while 

1950
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:41,200
because they wanted revenge. 
They felt so bad that you know 

1951
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:44,360
of her death. 
So despite the devastation she 

1952
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,800
and her brother and sister rot 
on Dorn, Her death was was still

1953
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:50,320
a tragedy for the Seven Kingdoms
from a human rights perspective,

1954
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:52,320
which is kind of odd to say. 
It's like, well, not from the 

1955
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:54,400
Dornish perspective. 
Well, yeah, not from the Dornish

1956
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:57,640
perspective, not arguing that 
they would spit at this take. 

1957
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,360
But compared to her brother and 
sister, it wasn't close. 

1958
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,080
She was by far the most 
concerned with making the Seven 

1959
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:05,680
Kingdoms a more peaceful and 
just place. 

1960
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:09,680
She had the most to do with 
creating more equity, the most 

1961
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:14,880
to do with lifting peasants out 
of their miserable lives that 

1962
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,480
have been given to them by the 
setting of this place in this 

1963
01:32:18,480 --> 01:32:22,600
world. 
She had the most to do with just

1964
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:27,080
making her family popular and 
liked and and propaganda. 

1965
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:30,080
Whether you call it propaganda 
or just being a decent person, 

1966
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:32,560
we'll both, yeah. 
Promoting art rather than. 

1967
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:33,520
Violence. 
Yeah. 

1968
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:35,320
Like, yeah, exactly. 
In fact, let's. 

1969
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:37,560
That's a good lead into this 
quote. 

1970
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:41,720
Queen Rainice was a great patron
to the bards and singers of the 

1971
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,440
Seven Kingdoms, showering gold 
and gifts on those who pleased 

1972
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:47,960
her. 
Though Queen Vicenia thought her

1973
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:51,880
sister frivolous, there was a 
wisdom in this that went beyond 

1974
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:55,680
a simple love of music for the 
singers of the realm in their 

1975
01:32:55,680 --> 01:33:00,000
eagerness to win the favor of 
the Queen, composed many a song 

1976
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:04,520
in praise of House Targaryen and
King Aegon, and then went forth 

1977
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:08,120
and sang those songs in every 
keep and castle and village 

1978
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:11,280
green from the Dornish marches 
to the wall. 

1979
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:15,640
Thus was the Conquest made 
glorious to the simple people, 

1980
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:20,040
whilst Aegon the Dragon himself 
became a hero king. 

1981
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:23,880
Oh, it only had the impact on 
the simple people, and I don't 

1982
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:25,360
think so. 
It seems like it had. 

1983
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:27,840
The masters and the nobility 
were pretty biased too, 

1984
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:29,800
especially given some of the 
other things we've gone over, 

1985
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:32,880
like the way this text is 
written, if Victory, it could be

1986
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:34,960
called, you know, stuff like 
that. 

1987
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:37,440
So IA 100% side with Rainey's on
this one. 

1988
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:41,720
Music is an extremely powerful 
tool in real life or in 

1989
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,640
Westeros, and the way it's being
portrayed here is extremely 

1990
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,440
realistic. 
This sort of thing still happens

1991
01:33:46,440 --> 01:33:51,240
today, literally. 
There are cartels in Mexico that

1992
01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:55,320
Commission music like this to 
make them come off a little 

1993
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:58,360
better because you know, you're 
still trying to put lipstick on 

1994
01:33:58,360 --> 01:34:00,280
a pig when you're talking about 
a drug cartel, right? 

1995
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:02,160
You know, they're like, yeah, 
we're we're the good guys. 

1996
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:04,760
No, but you can. 
There are good things the 

1997
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:09,240
cartels do that they try to 
amplify, to make it downplay all

1998
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:11,920
the evil stuff they do, which is
there's quite a lot more of 

1999
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:13,360
that. 
But governments are like that 

2000
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:16,200
too, in some ways, You know? 
And you know, if there's a lot 

2001
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:20,800
of politicians use songs for 
their political campaigns and 

2002
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:23,560
they use songs that are familiar
ones that people already 

2003
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,360
identify with, like you don't 
usually hear songs that no ones 

2004
01:34:26,360 --> 01:34:28,480
ever heard before. 
You hear classics you hear like,

2005
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:31,360
yeah, can we. 
Hey famous artist, can we use 

2006
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:33,160
your song for our campaign? 
They're not like. 

2007
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:36,520
Sometimes they ask. 
Yes, sometimes they just do it 

2008
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:38,800
and then just yeah, then get 
told cease and desist. 

2009
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:42,160
But they've already done it so. 
And sometimes they use songs 

2010
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:45,280
that aren't really quite what 
they think they are also right, 

2011
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:48,280
like Born in the USA. 
It was really kind of talking 

2012
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:51,120
too bad about Vietnam is really 
what the point of that song is. 

2013
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,160
And but but most people got that
point of that song wrong, so it 

2014
01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:57,720
worked Chorus. 
Just rang the chorus out a few 

2015
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,960
times and yeah, like, I think. 
I've even mentioned this one 

2016
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:02,280
before. 
It's not political, but there's 

2017
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:05,640
a bank that or maybe life 
insurance campaign that used 

2018
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:09,000
Iggy Pop song Lust for Life, 
which is totally a heroin song, 

2019
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:11,560
like a song about heroin 
addiction. 

2020
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:12,720
And they were like Lust for 
Lives. 

2021
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:14,720
Like I don't know if you know 
what this. 

2022
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:18,880
Means y'all. 
And you know, I don't know, 

2023
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:22,360
commissioning or government 
influence aside, you know, the 

2024
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:25,520
Vietnam War is also like a 
generation of music was inspired

2025
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,680
by that war. 
Very true. 

2026
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:29,600
By by trying to stop that war, 
yes. 

2027
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:31,480
The opposite, which George would
know very well. 

2028
01:35:31,480 --> 01:35:34,360
Having, you know, being a 
Grateful Dead fan and and being 

2029
01:35:34,440 --> 01:35:37,840
very much on the hippie side of 
things rather than on the, you 

2030
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,920
know, pro war side or whatever 
the opposite side of that is. 

2031
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,680
And there's other examples in 
world, like I said 1000 Eyes of 

2032
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,760
One was a Blood Raven propaganda
song, basically. 

2033
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:49,560
And of course the reigns of 
Castamere, right? 

2034
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:51,840
That's like, Tywin leaned into 
that one heavily. 

2035
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:55,080
Like, very heavily. 
Also worth saying, newer 

2036
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:59,160
listeners might not be aware the
disease has recorded a cover of 

2037
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:03,560
the reins of Cast a Mirror. 
It is on our SoundCloud as which

2038
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:07,040
I'm putting in the chat right 
here in the live stream chat. 

2039
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,880
The link also in our reigns of 
Castamere episode. 

2040
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:14,960
Aziz has also done Jenny's song,
which is less propaganda and 

2041
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:18,440
less less relevant year, but 
also well done. 

2042
01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:19,840
It's history of Westeros 
propaganda. 

2043
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:24,080
I'll put a link to that in the 
in the chat as well. 

2044
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:25,400
Yeah, check that out if you're 
so inclined. 

2045
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:27,520
Well, teaser. 
The other thing you have to do, 

2046
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:30,560
and I should put it on your list
of things to do, is Aziz was 

2047
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:35,120
going to sing Nymeria's song, 
the song about Nymeria that was 

2048
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:37,120
on House of the House of the 
Dragon. 

2049
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:43,280
Because we were given some extra
lyrics from the writer of that 

2050
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:46,480
song that are not published in 
fact and we were waiting to 

2051
01:36:46,480 --> 01:36:49,000
publish them when as he sings 
them. 

2052
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:51,320
Yeah, we're one of the people 
who have those lyrics. 

2053
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:53,000
I don't know that. 
I don't think any other YouTube 

2054
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:55,400
or I don't. 
Think they're out like she sent 

2055
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,160
them to us directly. 
So we're special. 

2056
01:36:57,160 --> 01:36:58,520
We have them. 
Anyways, but yeah, if you want 

2057
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:02,000
to hear the rest of Nymeria's 
song, let's all motivate Aziz to

2058
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:04,440
record. 
It right on. 

2059
01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:06,880
Thanks y'all. 
Yeah, I would some motivation 

2060
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:07,880
would help me. 
That's true. 

2061
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:09,960
But it may be before House the 
Dragon season 2. 

2062
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:11,440
And of course, so those songs 
are out there. 

2063
01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:15,080
There's lots of them, and in 
fact, Thousand Eyes and One 

2064
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:17,000
rains a cast, and we might have 
been inspired by some of these 

2065
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,640
songs from the early Conquest 
era, which we don't have names 

2066
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:23,760
for, but there's of course there
will be even older songs like 

2067
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:25,800
that, like songs about Florian 
and John Keel. 

2068
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:26,960
Baron. 
The maiden fair apparently is 

2069
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:29,640
super, super old. 
So yeah, so darn it proven that 

2070
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,560
Contest of Strength won't always
work, especially certain types 

2071
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,240
of Contest of Strength. 
If your enemies refuse to meet 

2072
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:38,920
you on the ground of your 
choosing, then who knows, right?

2073
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:41,120
And they'll play their own 
version of the Game of Thrones 

2074
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:42,840
instead. 
So this is a great example of 

2075
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:46,120
music, is a great example of 
soft power and something that 

2076
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:47,520
Hungarians needed to get better 
at. 

2077
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,480
Vicenya thinks this is 
frivolous, which kind of shows 

2078
01:37:50,480 --> 01:37:52,720
maybe she's got a little blind 
spot to the value of things like

2079
01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:54,360
this. 
And maybe Aegon wasn't so great 

2080
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:56,520
at it either, although I suspect
he was more in the middle. 

2081
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,280
Vicenya was one extreme, and 
maybe Ranius was the other. 

2082
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:02,000
So Aegon, you know, he'd mostly 
gone with the director out. 

2083
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:03,760
I'm stronger than you. 
I'm more powerful than you. 

2084
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:09,200
I'm, I'm, I'm on top. 
But you know, he seems to 

2085
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:12,040
lighten up a little bit and rule
with a less heavy hand. 

2086
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:14,280
In the longer term, because it 
doesn't work to rule with a 

2087
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:17,600
heavy hand, It's better to have 
a soft touch with the silk glove

2088
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:20,280
just knowing you have the Iron 
Gauntlet ready to go. 

2089
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:23,440
Especially when your Iron 
Gauntlet is Valerian. 

2090
01:38:23,440 --> 01:38:26,560
So you don't really have to be 
overbearing when you have 

2091
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,600
Valerian, You can just, they 
know you know they've you've 

2092
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:31,080
already conquered the Seven 
Kingdoms. 

2093
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:32,280
They know what you're capable 
of. 

2094
01:38:32,480 --> 01:38:34,520
It's not like Aegon was bad at 
soft power. 

2095
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,080
I think Betenia might have been.
Rainey seems to have been very 

2096
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:42,040
understanding of it. 
Like I can see things going a 

2097
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:46,280
lot differently if she had 
lived, and future generations 

2098
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:49,440
would struggle to get it right. 
Like a nice would be too soft, 

2099
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:52,320
too soft and Megor would be too 
hard. 

2100
01:38:52,320 --> 01:38:55,720
Kind of like his mother, like, 
just no balance there. 

2101
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:58,280
Harris and Alicean, though, They
did a very good job of finding 

2102
01:38:58,280 --> 01:39:01,480
out middle ground, and that's 
part of why it was probably the 

2103
01:39:01,480 --> 01:39:06,760
best era of the Targaryen run to
live under. 

2104
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:09,920
The best era of the Seven 
Kingdoms to live under, right? 

2105
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:12,200
Yeah, quite possibly. 
And it's not like it was so 

2106
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:13,960
amazing under Robert, I don't 
think, but. 

2107
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:16,280
Yeah, although it wasn't 
necessarily bad under Robert. 

2108
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:18,160
It got bad when it fell apart 
again. 

2109
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:21,720
But that interim was the. 
Fact that it fell apart, that's 

2110
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,920
kind of on Robert, right? 
And it was a pretty short period

2111
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:27,360
of time compared to maybe. 
It's pretty long compared to 

2112
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:29,600
most reigns, but short compared 
to Jay Harris, Yeah. 

2113
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:30,680
That's a good way to put it, 
yeah. 

2114
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:33,840
Yeah, because 15 years is a 
above average, but it's not 

2115
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:35,320
crazy long. 
Now. 

2116
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:37,880
Aenes's softness, if we're 
talking about why Megger was 

2117
01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:39,920
hard, it's easy to draw a 
straight line there because of 

2118
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:42,840
his mother, and he was more 
raised by his mother, whereas 

2119
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:46,360
Aenes was more raised at court 
by his mother for a little while

2120
01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:49,880
and then his father and that. 
But Reenes didn't coddle him. 

2121
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,760
How could she? 
She died when he was three, 

2122
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:55,280
right? 
That's too young for her to have

2123
01:39:55,680 --> 01:40:00,080
established a pattern or a 
lifelong habit of raising him. 

2124
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:02,880
That's the issue when your mom 
dies. 

2125
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,920
When you're 3, of course, that's
going to be a gigantic factor 

2126
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:08,760
that will impact your entire 
life. 

2127
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:14,720
And you wonder whether Ranis was
trying to have another kid with 

2128
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:16,080
Aegon. 
I mean, they were still sleeping

2129
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:17,640
together, presumably, but that 
doesn't. 

2130
01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:21,000
I don't know if she wanted one. 
Probably did, but who knows? 

2131
01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:26,120
And she was nursing Amy's 
herself, which is interesting. 

2132
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:29,920
You like you very often in these
scenarios you have wet nurses 

2133
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:33,280
and things like that. 
So shows she was a little more 

2134
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:38,880
hands on, which I respect that. 
But of course she couldn't. 

2135
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:42,200
She wasn't there later, not her 
fault, but she did put herself 

2136
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:46,960
in danger now as well. 
Nina says that there's a 

2137
01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:49,840
historical parallel here, one 
that I wasn't particularly aware

2138
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:53,440
of. 
Amy's softness is maybe supposed

2139
01:40:53,440 --> 01:40:55,200
to be like Edward the second of 
England. 

2140
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:59,480
We'll come back to that when 
we're talking about Amy's little

2141
01:40:59,480 --> 01:41:01,200
sneak preview there. 
Especially if, you know, if you 

2142
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,240
don't know who Edward the second
of England was, then that won't 

2143
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:05,600
mean much to you. 
But if you do, then little 

2144
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:07,480
teaser for you. 
So yeah, most of whom Rainey's 

2145
01:41:07,480 --> 01:41:11,000
champions in terms of trying to 
uplift in society were the 

2146
01:41:11,480 --> 01:41:13,880
people, like you said Sean, 
people who weren't warriors. 

2147
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:16,920
And so he's trying to uplift 
that segment of society. 

2148
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:19,520
The nonviolent elements of 
society, give them a bigger 

2149
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:22,360
voice in the cultural 
conversation, make them a more a

2150
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:24,840
part of society. 
Which is why I think it's a big 

2151
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:27,920
loss for her death, even though,
again, the Dornish would be 

2152
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:29,520
like, what the hell are you 
talking about, man? 

2153
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:33,800
But artists, singers, musicians,
creative types and women. 

2154
01:41:33,800 --> 01:41:36,120
She also uplifted women. 
She tried to enhance women's 

2155
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:38,800
rights. 
Now, there's it's a long road to

2156
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:42,440
to make men and women equal in 
Westeros, one that obviously 

2157
01:41:42,440 --> 01:41:46,000
isn't there. 
But she really got that ball 

2158
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:48,400
rolling in ways that almost no 
one had before. 

2159
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:52,600
Like, Allison again is a great 
notable exception of someone who

2160
01:41:53,160 --> 01:41:55,320
did a lot for women in the Seven
Kingdoms. 

2161
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:57,360
And Alexander was probably 
inspired by Randy's. 

2162
01:41:57,360 --> 01:42:00,440
That's her grandmother, right? 
I mean, they didn't meet because

2163
01:42:00,440 --> 01:42:02,560
she died so young. 
But still, our Randy's is going 

2164
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:05,480
to be remembered, right? 
Like, obviously, of course 

2165
01:42:05,480 --> 01:42:07,720
you're going to remember that. 
And so when we speak of Allison 

2166
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:11,520
later, we will have to recall 
this and be like, well, what? 

2167
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:14,320
Maybe Maybe even look for some 
specifics and think this seems 

2168
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:17,080
like maybe it came from Rainey's
a bit or at least partially 

2169
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:18,880
inspired by Rainey's. 
We'll never give Rainey's full 

2170
01:42:18,880 --> 01:42:22,560
credit for someone else's ideas.
But yeah, that's it's important.

2171
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:24,320
These influences are big. 
This is the first one of the 

2172
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:27,120
first Queens of Westeros. 
Amy's understandably took his 

2173
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:29,160
mother's death poorly. 
I mean, what 3 year old 

2174
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:31,320
wouldn't? 
But this is also a three-year 

2175
01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:33,840
old with gigantic expectations 
placed on him. 

2176
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,880
He's no ordinary 3 year old. 
Let's hear about it. 

2177
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:40,680
Prince Ames was 3 when his 
mother, Queen Raines and her 

2178
01:42:40,680 --> 01:42:43,560
dragon Raxies, were slain, and 
Dorne her death left the boy 

2179
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:46,320
Prince inconsolable. 
He stopped eating and even began

2180
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:49,440
to crawl as he had when he was 
one, as if he had forgotten how 

2181
01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:51,400
to walk. 
His father despaired of him, and

2182
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:54,520
rumors flew about the court that
King Aegon might take another 

2183
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:56,680
wife. 
As Raines was dead and Vicinia 

2184
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,600
childless and perhaps barren, 
the king kept his own counsel on

2185
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:02,160
these matters, so no man could 
say what thoughts he might have 

2186
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,160
entertained. 
But many great Lords and noble 

2187
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:06,520
Knights appeared at court with 
their maiden daughters, each 

2188
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:09,720
more calmly than the can. 
I say, Sean, I gave you this 

2189
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:13,280
quote for a reason, 'cause I 
thought I'd cry if I read it. 

2190
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:17,560
You you hearing you read it? 
Look, it was so. 

2191
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:19,080
Sad. 
Yeah, it is very sad. 

2192
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:21,480
We're just so good at this, 
really. 

2193
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:24,680
Really sad. 
And yeah, so Aegon might have 

2194
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:26,760
considered that, but there's no 
indication he actually did. 

2195
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:29,280
It was more like, well, maybe we
can tempt him into this. 

2196
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:31,680
Maybe he just, we'll decide he 
needs to 'cause, you know, he's 

2197
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:34,920
not going to want to. 
He doesn't want to have more 

2198
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:37,760
kids. 
He doesn't want to remarry, but 

2199
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,120
he might think it's necessary. 
He might be tempted into it. 

2200
01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:42,720
If he finds one of these women 
very attractive, that might be. 

2201
01:43:42,760 --> 01:43:45,600
I mean, that's the thinking of 
these Lords and ladies who are. 

2202
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:49,800
To be fair, this is an 
unprecedented opportunity for 

2203
01:43:49,800 --> 01:43:54,360
ambitious types to be part of 
the first royal family ever 

2204
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:56,760
established in Westeros. 
After thousands of years, this 

2205
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,520
is a gigantic opportunity. 
It's turns out the opportunity 

2206
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:02,120
wasn't actually there because he
didn't marry anybody else. 

2207
01:44:02,480 --> 01:44:04,160
Didn't. 
Maybe didn't even consider it. 

2208
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:08,000
But clearly people were taking 
the chance, taking that 1% shot 

2209
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:11,200
like it's worth it to try 
because we'll be enshrined in as

2210
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:14,160
legends and maybe the first 
family in Westeros behind the 

2211
01:44:14,160 --> 01:44:15,560
Targaryens for who knows how 
long. 

2212
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:17,400
For hundreds of years, they 
might be looking at it as a 

2213
01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:18,840
chance to become a dragon riding
family. 

2214
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:20,440
In the long term, we'll be 
married to dragon riding. 

2215
01:44:20,440 --> 01:44:22,360
We might get Dragons. 
It's so much opportunity. 

2216
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:27,560
Probably benefited Aegon 
ultimately, like him, not 

2217
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:30,880
marrying someone else and just 
having this is like a thing to 

2218
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:32,840
dangle. 
The carrot, The ultimate carrot.

2219
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:36,160
The Valyrian carrot. 
You have to think there's some 

2220
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:37,960
chair, some hoe. 
Agreed. 

2221
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:41,440
Agreed it does, because it makes
sense having one heir who's kind

2222
01:44:41,440 --> 01:44:45,120
of spindly and looks like he 
can't handle the weight of this 

2223
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:49,480
crown and this throne. 
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a legit 

2224
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:50,760
possibility. 
And he. 

2225
01:44:50,760 --> 01:44:52,960
Yeah. 
And and with Rainey's gone, the 

2226
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:55,800
the idea that there might not be
another kid and Vicenia hadn't 

2227
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:56,560
had a kid. 
Yeah. 

2228
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:58,200
And This is why. 
By why? 

2229
01:44:58,200 --> 01:45:01,080
The way that some people buy. 
Why the way This is why, by the 

2230
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:06,080
way, that people suspect Vicenia
maybe of using some magic to get

2231
01:45:06,080 --> 01:45:08,520
pregnant. 
Which there's no evidence that's

2232
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:11,200
even a thing. 
But I I give it more credibility

2233
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:15,680
than in source old paper, 
because there's a little more to

2234
01:45:15,680 --> 01:45:18,240
it than that. 
But honestly, we don't know if 

2235
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:19,520
either of those things actually 
exist. 

2236
01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:21,120
And I could see Vicenia pushing 
it too. 

2237
01:45:21,480 --> 01:45:24,480
Some things that in this world 
might seem like sorcery. 

2238
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:28,520
There might be a legitimate 
modern chemical explanation of 

2239
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:30,400
some cushion to help to get 
pregnant. 

2240
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:31,960
You know, it could be a thing 
that's true. 

2241
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:33,840
That's true even if it wasn't 
quote UN quote. 

2242
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:36,000
Real magic, you know. 
Yeah, what people call magic, 

2243
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:37,560
what really is magic, isn't 
always the same. 

2244
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,320
That's true. 
And I can see Vasenia pushing 

2245
01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:42,920
the issue a bit like I can see 
him considering to take another 

2246
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:44,720
wife. 
Let's not do that. 

2247
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:46,840
And the best way to make that 
happen is to have a child. 

2248
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:50,640
So I'm going to make him sleep 
with me as often as I can and 

2249
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,360
well, maybe that's maybe that is
why Megor did finally have 

2250
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:55,600
sleep. 
The the additional quantity of 

2251
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,680
times they started sleeping 
together after Rainey's death 

2252
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:00,520
may have finally paid off. 
And I, and there's no way, like 

2253
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:04,080
Vicinia was like, shy about it, 
you know, she'd be like we need 

2254
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:06,680
to make another air, you know 
get undressed. 

2255
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:09,040
Now this is the woman who cut 
his face when she when he 

2256
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:10,320
wouldn't protect himself 
properly. 

2257
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:13,440
So I think she's going to come 
down heavily. 

2258
01:46:13,440 --> 01:46:15,400
I was going to almost said come 
down hard, but that's too much 

2259
01:46:15,440 --> 01:46:16,200
of. 
A. 

2260
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:20,320
OK, I said it anyway. 
I couldn't help. 

2261
01:46:20,440 --> 01:46:22,320
I couldn't help it. 
Nina brings up the example of 

2262
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:25,760
Tywin with respect to getting 
remarried as a It was a great 

2263
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:27,640
example. 
Another famous person that was 

2264
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:31,240
like, no, there's no replacing 
Joanna, I will not remarry. 

2265
01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:36,160
She was my childhood companion, 
you know, related to him, you 

2266
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:38,640
know. 
That part's also a comparison. 

2267
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:41,800
Mary, trust is this. 
No replacing that you cannot 

2268
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,080
replace. 
There's just no person will 

2269
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:44,000
ever. 
It's like what? 

2270
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:49,520
It's like what Laura said when 
when the sun is burned out, no 

2271
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:52,320
candle can replace it. 
Is that going to? 

2272
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:54,200
Is that going to elicit some 
tears too? 

2273
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,160
No Boo to that, no. 
I Boo to that, no. 

2274
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:00,040
I was getting ready for my 
quote. 

2275
01:47:00,240 --> 01:47:00,960
I wasn't. 
Gotcha. 

2276
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:03,280
Yeah, So, but it is a good 
parallel. 

2277
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:04,400
Yeah. 
Jokes aside, that is a good 

2278
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,920
parallel. 
I think if the sun's burned out,

2279
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:09,720
a candle can replace it because 
you need to see some light. 

2280
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:11,640
No, it actually can't. 
You will all die if the sun 

2281
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:13,520
burns out. 
Well, in Egon's case, he has, 

2282
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:16,680
you know, Visenia to replace it,
and he doesn't actually have to 

2283
01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:18,000
remarry. 
She's pretty. 

2284
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:20,320
She's a pretty bright light, 
especially if you count Veigar. 

2285
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:24,920
Anyway, so yeah, so there's they
weren't going to, they were 

2286
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:26,080
they, They were fighting a 
losing battle. 

2287
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:28,520
No one was going to lick. 
Here's a replacement for 

2288
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:30,920
Rainey's like, Oh yeah, her. 
No, it just wasn't going to 

2289
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:32,720
happen, I think. 
I do think the Tywin example is 

2290
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:35,720
great, not because he's like 
Tywin, but because Rainey's was 

2291
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:38,040
irreplaceable to him like Joanna
was to Tywin. 

2292
01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:40,840
So that talk stopped, though 
once Vesenia announced she was 

2293
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:44,880
pregnant, the, like, remarriage 
talk stopped and she was very 

2294
01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:47,200
bold about it. 
She's like, it's a son, you 

2295
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:48,600
know, Which we've seen that 
before. 

2296
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:52,080
In fact, from Megor. 
Megor is going to say, I made 

2297
01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:54,880
House Targaryen a new son last 
night when he slept with his 

2298
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:57,640
wife for the first time. 
Of course, he did not even make 

2299
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,800
any child, let alone a son. 
Vesenia was at least pregnant 

2300
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:03,560
when making the announcements. 
Like Megor is just like, yeah, I

2301
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:05,440
know my sperm's going to get 
there. 

2302
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:09,200
I'm late. 
You got a 5050 chance of being 

2303
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:12,760
right in the 1st place. 
Yeah, and even if you're wrong, 

2304
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:16,040
you got several months of it 
getting people on board with the

2305
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:18,920
plan. 
And even if you're wrong, press 

2306
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:21,240
has been established for a queen
already anyway, so. 

2307
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:24,480
It's funny too, because it maybe
that slightly adds to her 

2308
01:48:24,480 --> 01:48:26,400
sorceress reputation. 
They're like, oh, it really was 

2309
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,400
a sun. 
It's like she just won a coin 

2310
01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:30,400
flip like she's. 
Really got the 5050? 

2311
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:33,160
That's right, right. 
She do that. 

2312
01:48:33,480 --> 01:48:35,000
How did that? 
Yeah, only. 

2313
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:37,000
Sorcery could give you a 50% 
chance. 

2314
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:40,040
It's really just as simple as 
keeping your room incredibly 

2315
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:42,320
warm for you. 
What is it like four months? 

2316
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,400
She just, like, sits the squats 
on the volcano for a while. 

2317
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:47,160
Just like sits there keeping it 
warm. 

2318
01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:51,560
Yeah, letting the volcanic ash 
just, you know, filter up in 

2319
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:57,600
there like you said, Sean. 
Non magical means encourage 

2320
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:00,600
pregnancy. 
Those are real scientific means.

2321
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,040
I mean, you watch the office, 
they'll tell you it's a simple 

2322
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:06,080
matter of keeping the womb 
incredibly warm for the first 

2323
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:08,200
four months and then cold for 
one month. 

2324
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:12,240
And it'll be. 
Jan, that said that I'm trying. 

2325
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:15,640
No. 
Dwight tells Angela that when 

2326
01:49:16,200 --> 01:49:18,680
she's going to get pregnant, he 
says it has to be a boy. 

2327
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:20,680
And she's like, I can't ensure 
that he's like, yeah, you can. 

2328
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:26,320
It's a simple matter. 
Even your room warm and doing a 

2329
01:49:26,440 --> 01:49:28,920
There's a few other things. 
I'm misquoting it, but the 

2330
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:31,000
warmth is relevant for 
Targaryen. 

2331
01:49:31,440 --> 01:49:36,200
So another like awkward and 
maybe not true, but I think 

2332
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:39,760
probably true or at least 
possibly true aspect Terranis's 

2333
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:44,800
legacy is that because she died,
Vicenia had more pressure to 

2334
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:46,680
create another child for House 
Targaryen. 

2335
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:50,720
And because those two children, 
those two sons, came from 

2336
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:55,280
different women, it formed 2 
branches of House Targaryen in 

2337
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:59,880
the long term of the Vicenia 
branch that was populated by 

2338
01:49:59,880 --> 01:50:03,120
Megor, well, not really 'cause 
he didn't have kids, but it was 

2339
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:05,160
still continued that way for a 
little while. 

2340
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:08,360
And the Annies branch, which 
really was the one that 

2341
01:50:08,360 --> 01:50:10,200
continued, they really did have 
a lot of children. 

2342
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:15,120
And those two branches going up 
against each other, kind of like

2343
01:50:15,120 --> 01:50:17,520
the Greens and Blacks or 
Targaryens and black fires 

2344
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:23,680
later, this is the first seed of
the royal house going up against

2345
01:50:23,680 --> 01:50:25,720
itself. 
Later is the birth of Megor, 

2346
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:30,480
because now you have two half 
brothers that aren't very like. 

2347
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:32,880
And Visena should have tried for
a girl. 

2348
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:34,920
She should have kept her womb 
cold for four. 

2349
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:37,600
Months. 
She doesn't have to keep her 

2350
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:39,800
womb cold, she just runs hot all
the time. 

2351
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:43,960
There's no such thing, but 
here's a good long quote Moron 

2352
01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:47,840
Rainey's and how she operated 
and how she uplifted the common 

2353
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:49,880
folk quote. 
Don't call Rainey's a moron, 

2354
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:51,640
though. 
No, no moron for. 

2355
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:57,800
Queen Rainey's also took a great
interest in the small folk and 

2356
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:00,640
had a special love for women and
children. 

2357
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:04,960
Once, when she was holding court
in the Aegon Fort, a man was 

2358
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:07,560
brought before her for beating 
his wife to death. 

2359
01:51:08,280 --> 01:51:11,920
The woman's brothers wanted him 
punished, but the husband argued

2360
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:15,320
that he was within his lawful 
rights since he had found his 

2361
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:19,600
wife a bed with another man. 
The right of a husband to 

2362
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:23,920
chastise an erring wife was well
established throughout the Seven

2363
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:27,760
Kingdoms, save in Doran. 
The husband further pointed out 

2364
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:32,040
that the rod he had used to beat
his wife was no thicker than his

2365
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:35,320
thumb and even produced the rod 
in evidence. 

2366
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:39,520
When the Queen asked him how 
many times yet struck his wife, 

2367
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,160
however, the husband could not 
answer. 

2368
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:46,880
But the dead woman's brothers 
insisted there had been 100 

2369
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:49,840
blows. 
Queen Rainies consulted with her

2370
01:51:49,840 --> 01:51:53,880
maesters and septons, then 
rendered her decision. 

2371
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:57,680
An adulterous wife gave offence 
to the seven who had created 

2372
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:00,920
women to be faithful and 
obedient to their husbands, and 

2373
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:05,840
therefore must be chastised, as 
God has but seven faces. 

2374
01:52:05,840 --> 01:52:10,640
However, the punishment should 
consist of only 6 blows, for the

2375
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:14,240
7th blow would be for the 
stranger, and the stranger is 

2376
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:18,440
the face of death. 
Thus the first six blows the man

2377
01:52:18,440 --> 01:52:23,520
had struck had been lawful, but 
the remaining 94 had been an 

2378
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:28,080
offence against gods and men, 
and must be punished in kind. 

2379
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:33,600
From that day forth the rule of 
six became a part of the common 

2380
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:36,360
law along with the rule of 
thumb. 

2381
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:39,720
The husband was taken to the 
foot of the hill of Rainey's 

2382
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:44,640
where he was given 94 blows by 
the dead woman's brothers using 

2383
01:52:44,640 --> 01:52:48,040
rods of lawful size. 
It's hard for me not to chuckle 

2384
01:52:48,040 --> 01:52:50,680
throughout a lot of that, as 
awful as it is, because I do 

2385
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:52,160
have the sense of humor of a 
small child. 

2386
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:57,520
I mean the phrase rods of lawful
size and 94 blows by the dead 

2387
01:52:57,520 --> 01:52:59,920
woman's brothers. 
It's just too much. 

2388
01:52:59,920 --> 01:53:02,720
It's too much. 
The word rod alone is, is, is 

2389
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:03,600
funny. 
I mean, I. 

2390
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:08,360
Think all of you listening have 
probably heard of that old wives

2391
01:53:08,360 --> 01:53:11,640
tale of of, of that. 
Rule of thumb, Yeah, of the rule

2392
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:13,480
of thumb, which is not a real 
thing. 

2393
01:53:13,480 --> 01:53:16,320
It's completely made-up. 
The rule of thumb never is just.

2394
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:21,320
For George, still wanting to rip
on real old wives tales, Rightly

2395
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:23,240
like yeah. 
People believe it's true. 

2396
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:26,240
So that, yeah, I mean, it's you 
would you should have fit false 

2397
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:29,040
things in your world that people
believe 'cause that's how things

2398
01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:30,640
work. 
The real world is like that too.

2399
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:32,880
We don't know if George actually
knows whether this is a real 

2400
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:34,640
thing or not. 
We don't know if he knows it's 

2401
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:36,800
not real. 
But it's not real. 

2402
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:39,960
Thumb was made-up by an 18th 
century judge. 

2403
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:41,440
Yeah. 
To be clear, George likes 

2404
01:53:41,440 --> 01:53:44,560
reading popular histories. 
I think he knows when he reads 

2405
01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:48,320
them that there is false 
falsehoods and things in them 

2406
01:53:48,320 --> 01:53:50,440
and he can just appreciate a 
good story. 

2407
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:53,040
Yes, I just think so. 
Which George said. 

2408
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:54,680
I think he even said that in our
interview with him. 

2409
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:58,080
He's like, yes, like a lot of 
times the the false history is 

2410
01:53:58,080 --> 01:53:59,240
more interesting than the real 
history. 

2411
01:53:59,240 --> 01:54:01,240
And when you're writing fiction,
you're you're, you're allowed to

2412
01:54:01,240 --> 01:54:04,200
borrow from either 'cause it's 
fiction like this could happen, 

2413
01:54:04,200 --> 01:54:06,280
this could have happened. 
This isn't, like super 

2414
01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:08,400
implausible like this isn't like
this could never have happened. 

2415
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:12,160
But it also means that we 
shouldn't take something that 

2416
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:15,120
George put in his in his world 
as him being like, Oh yeah, this

2417
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:17,840
is how the real world works. 
And like this is so historically

2418
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:21,480
accurate, which is some people 
look at I don't think he at all 

2419
01:54:21,480 --> 01:54:24,040
would say, Oh my works are 
historically accurate. 

2420
01:54:24,080 --> 01:54:25,200
No, he never would. 
And. 

2421
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:27,840
That's part of why we have what 
what we're here to do is to 

2422
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:32,960
clarify these things for y'all. 
There's a lot to unpack in this,

2423
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:37,240
but man I the thing I got hung 
up with was hung up on is the 

2424
01:54:37,240 --> 01:54:39,920
seven who had created women to 
be faithful and obedient to 

2425
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:42,320
their husbands like of. 
Course, we all know that, Sean, 

2426
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:44,360
your. 
Husbands created to be faithful 

2427
01:54:44,360 --> 01:54:46,920
and obedient to their wives. 
Husbands are created to lead 

2428
01:54:46,920 --> 01:54:49,320
their wives, of course, to be a 
leader. 

2429
01:54:50,600 --> 01:54:54,000
And to beat their wives when 
they only six times, though if 

2430
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:55,080
they if they. 
Cheat. 

2431
01:54:55,200 --> 01:54:58,560
Very progressive minded of A. 
I agree, Sean. 

2432
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:00,680
There's a lots of unpacking. 
And this goes to show like, 

2433
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:03,240
rainies can't just go ahead and 
just like flip the whole script 

2434
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:05,360
and be like, no, this is wrong. 
We're going to totally undo 

2435
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:07,160
everything. 
You got to bring them along 

2436
01:55:07,160 --> 01:55:09,240
slowly. 
Like you got to change as much 

2437
01:55:09,240 --> 01:55:13,600
as possible in a, you know in 
the time you can and then change

2438
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:16,280
later more. 
You can't just all of a sudden 

2439
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:19,200
undo all sexism all at once. 
That's just never going to. 

2440
01:55:19,200 --> 01:55:20,960
You can't just kill the 
patriarchy in one minute. 

2441
01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:23,480
That's just not going to happen.
But that that, that one 

2442
01:55:23,480 --> 01:55:26,240
parenthetical reference is 
really big. 

2443
01:55:26,240 --> 01:55:29,080
The the right of a husband to 
chastise an erring wife was well

2444
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:31,400
established about the Seven 
Kingdoms, save in Dorne. 

2445
01:55:32,280 --> 01:55:35,200
Huge reason for Dorne to be 
like, we're not taking your 

2446
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:36,520
laws. 
It's backsliding. 

2447
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:41,320
We have moved beyond some of 
your patriarchy. 

2448
01:55:41,320 --> 01:55:43,760
We are still very matriarchal, 
patriarchal society, but at 

2449
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:45,680
least we have women, rulers and 
other things. 

2450
01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:48,760
And you can't just beat your 
wife because you want to. 

2451
01:55:49,240 --> 01:55:52,680
To be fair, this is cheating on 
your husband, which is a lot 

2452
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:54,800
more than doing nothing. 
But still, it seems like they 

2453
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:58,120
could have a lot of leeway to 
beat their wife for pretty much 

2454
01:55:58,120 --> 01:56:01,720
anything, but not in Dorne. 
And so when Mary is holding out 

2455
01:56:02,240 --> 01:56:05,800
to not have the Targaryen rule 
over them, she's holding out in 

2456
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:09,240
a sense, for all the women of 
Dorne to not be put under that 

2457
01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:11,760
rule of thumb. 
And things like it, like, well, 

2458
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:13,720
it's this is when they talk 
about maintaining their freedom,

2459
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:16,200
their independence to talk about
being made slaves of the Iron 

2460
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:17,280
Throne, that's what it's talking
about. 

2461
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:22,440
They're talking about having to 
take on laws that to them look 

2462
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:27,760
maybe not quite like slavery, 
but in that direction, like in 

2463
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,920
the wrong direction. 
For you want to be taking your 

2464
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:32,680
your people. 
I think that's an underrated 

2465
01:56:32,680 --> 01:56:36,840
reason why the Dornish held out 
the way they did, 'cause they 

2466
01:56:36,840 --> 01:56:39,320
look at laws like this and say, 
no, we don't want to have your 

2467
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:40,840
your laws applied to us. 
Not. 

2468
01:56:40,920 --> 01:56:43,680
Not only do we not want your 
people and your Dragons down 

2469
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:45,800
here, but we don't want your 
laws down here either 'cause our

2470
01:56:45,800 --> 01:56:49,480
laws are better, our laws are 
more forward thinking and and 

2471
01:56:49,480 --> 01:56:51,160
taking on your laws would be 
backsliding. 

2472
01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:52,840
It would be it would it would be
backwards. 

2473
01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:57,000
I don't want to take away from 
your point, but I would be more 

2474
01:56:57,000 --> 01:57:00,440
bought into it if someone had 
said that, if Miri had said, 

2475
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:04,400
yeah, join in your land with 
your beating of women or you 

2476
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:06,560
know, they they they didn't. 
However much it wasn't 

2477
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:08,240
motivation, they never named it 
as such. 

2478
01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:10,200
Yeah. 
And there's obviously just, we 

2479
01:57:10,200 --> 01:57:13,160
can't just say that Doran is 
like the biggest champion of 

2480
01:57:13,160 --> 01:57:14,920
women. 
You know, they just are maybe 

2481
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:17,600
compared to the rest of the 
Seven Kingdoms, you know, like 

2482
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:20,480
that line from the TV show. 
Like, we don't harm little girls

2483
01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:23,320
in Dorne, Oberyn says. 
And so she's like, yeah, you do.

2484
01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:24,800
Everywhere in the world, they 
harm little girls. 

2485
01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:26,040
And. 
And Oberyn didn't really have a 

2486
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:27,320
retort for this. 
Like, yeah, I guess you're 

2487
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:29,480
right. 
And Speaking of Oberyn, like, 

2488
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,000
Nina points out how he treated 
the wife of his first child, 

2489
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:33,600
which is pretty horrible. 
So. 

2490
01:57:33,680 --> 01:57:36,480
But it's still an irony, right, 
that that Rainey's being the 

2491
01:57:36,480 --> 01:57:38,800
primary enemy of Dorne, the one 
who might have actually 

2492
01:57:38,800 --> 01:57:41,640
respected some of those laws 
that they already had. 

2493
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:45,840
She was the primary antagonist 
and the one who's deaf was 

2494
01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,360
probably a set back to the rest 
of the Seven Kingdoms in that 

2495
01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:50,440
regard. 
So it's just a bunch of brutal 

2496
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:52,760
ironies kind of wrapped in 
together and like things that 

2497
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:58,040
don't fully match up in terms of
how these laws are aligned. 

2498
01:57:58,040 --> 01:58:00,120
But not not in a way that 
doesn't make sense, but just 

2499
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:04,880
kind of the the peculiarities of
of government and war and just 

2500
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:09,360
the things that the natural 
hypocrisies that come from such 

2501
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:10,920
things. 
So yeah, we can't claim right, 

2502
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:13,840
this would have been good for 
Dornish people because of what 

2503
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:19,120
she did but it was a set back 
for women and musicians and non 

2504
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:20,760
martial people and the rest of 
the seven Kingdoms. 

2505
01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:22,680
So yeah, just a strange irony 
there. 

2506
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:25,240
The how that how those things 
all kind of clicked. 

2507
01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:28,760
She was the only real advocate 
north of the Red Mountains for 

2508
01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:32,000
that sort of thing. 
So yes, I don't know that a lot 

2509
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:34,560
of people realized that, 
especially people within the 

2510
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:37,640
setting. 
But that was a big tragic loss 

2511
01:58:37,640 --> 01:58:40,120
and that's why her death was 
felt by so many people. 

2512
01:58:40,120 --> 01:58:42,800
Why so many people were mad? 
Why so many people like wanted 

2513
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:46,240
to tear apart the the Dornish 
peace envoys. 

2514
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:49,080
Wyagon was worried about that. 
It was because of Rainey's, I 

2515
01:58:49,080 --> 01:58:50,880
think. 
Not because they're losing the 

2516
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:55,160
war. 
Not because they had some 

2517
01:58:55,400 --> 01:58:58,040
floored. 
Connington was assassinated 

2518
01:58:58,040 --> 01:58:59,760
while hunting. 
I don't think they cared about 

2519
01:58:59,760 --> 01:59:02,520
that all that much. 
I mean the the Connington lands,

2520
01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:04,400
they did like those those small 
folk did. 

2521
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:08,560
But it was about Rainey's. 
It was about the person that had

2522
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:12,600
made them love them dying. 
Like she maybe sort of tricked 

2523
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:15,200
them into that, but you know, 
she also treated them well in 

2524
01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:16,680
some parts. 
The music stuff is what I'm 

2525
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:21,360
talking about, but on these 
policies and the treating women 

2526
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:23,480
better, that she was beloved, 
you know, maybe she didn't 

2527
01:59:23,480 --> 01:59:26,560
deserve it all. 
But the fact is that outcry I 

2528
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:28,840
think has more to do with with 
her than anything else. 

2529
01:59:28,840 --> 01:59:30,080
I think she's the single biggest
factor. 

2530
01:59:30,080 --> 01:59:33,080
This is a nuance, but you know, 
tricked and early, I think you 

2531
01:59:33,080 --> 01:59:38,200
said manipulated propaganda. 
Not that there isn't or can't be

2532
01:59:38,200 --> 01:59:41,040
that type of thing mixed up in 
song or public opinion or 

2533
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:45,200
whatever, but it still makes it.
I don't think it's inherently as

2534
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:48,600
negative of that. 
Because The thing is it a lot of

2535
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:51,680
the public has no opinion. 
They have no knowledge, right? 

2536
01:59:52,040 --> 01:59:55,360
A song or something like that. 
It's just presenting the story 

2537
01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:57,080
to the world. 
And now maybe the story has some

2538
01:59:57,080 --> 01:59:59,720
propaganda mixed up in it, but 
just the average person on a 

2539
01:59:59,720 --> 02:00:03,160
farm in the middle of the north 
somewhere, they don't know the 

2540
02:00:03,160 --> 02:00:05,400
details of any of these battles 
going on in Dorne, right? 

2541
02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:09,560
So when the song comes to them, 
whether it's manipulated or 

2542
02:00:09,560 --> 02:00:12,960
completely honest, that is 
creating public opinion by even 

2543
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:14,320
making the public aware. 
Right. 

2544
02:00:14,320 --> 02:00:16,400
Yeah, that's true. 
You're right that just just 

2545
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:18,640
being aware awareness of the 
song, whether they whether you 

2546
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:22,320
take the lyrics to heart or not,
the fact that the song exists 

2547
02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:24,800
itself, it just yeah. 
Whether they know the words to 

2548
02:00:25,120 --> 02:00:27,640
Thousand Eyes and one, they know
there's a song about Blood Raven

2549
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:29,800
out there. 
Whether they know the lyrics to 

2550
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:32,560
Rains a Castamere, they they 
have, they get the gist of it, 

2551
02:00:33,200 --> 02:00:35,360
you know, Yeah, that's a good 
point, a very good point. 

2552
02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:37,160
It still has an effect, even if 
you don't know the song 

2553
02:00:37,160 --> 02:00:39,360
entirely. 
Or however accurate or 

2554
02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:43,280
propaganda it is still 
presenting as a way to present 

2555
02:00:43,280 --> 02:00:45,600
information to the public. 
And in a setting like this, we 

2556
02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:49,200
have to forget we live in a 
world of like giant music 

2557
02:00:49,200 --> 02:00:52,960
conglomerates and where you can 
look up the lyrics to any song 

2558
02:00:53,240 --> 02:00:55,880
with a Google search. 
Like, without spending any 

2559
02:00:55,880 --> 02:00:59,760
money, there would be very large
variations, not just in lyrics, 

2560
02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:02,200
but in melody, into the things 
would just get changed. 

2561
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:04,200
People just change it to their 
own version. 

2562
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,440
Yeah, like there would be huge 
varieties. 

2563
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:09,760
Like, we've all heard covers of 
our favorite songs. 

2564
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:11,520
Everything would be, you 
wouldn't know what the original 

2565
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:13,400
sounded like. 
It's just everything is a cover 

2566
02:01:13,400 --> 02:01:16,000
and the original is lost to 
history, 'cause there's no 

2567
02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:19,040
recording of it. 
And even the original singer 

2568
02:01:19,480 --> 02:01:21,880
would have expected, like there 
would be no expectation that it 

2569
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:24,080
would be the same. 
Even like they wouldn't think of

2570
02:01:24,080 --> 02:01:25,840
it that way. 
Be like all songs are meant to 

2571
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:30,560
to have a little growth and 
change and, you know, options. 

2572
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:32,280
There's another verse to that 
song. 

2573
02:01:32,280 --> 02:01:33,800
I never heard that verse. 
Really. 

2574
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:35,040
What's where'd that one come 
from? 

2575
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:37,160
Yeah, I heard it from the singer
in Old Town. 

2576
02:01:37,160 --> 02:01:40,320
And yeah, does you can kind of 
the lyrics are a little 

2577
02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:42,280
different on that verse. 
Maybe it was written by Someone 

2578
02:01:42,280 --> 02:01:44,680
Like You might have maesters 
like study this sort of thing 

2579
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:47,680
and tracked down. 
It's kind of a different subject

2580
02:01:47,680 --> 02:01:49,680
altogether I'm getting into 
here, but it's kind. 

2581
02:01:49,680 --> 02:01:50,600
Of neat. 
That's the brass. 

2582
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:53,960
That's the brass. 
Link Music Origins. 

2583
02:01:56,120 --> 02:01:57,320
Yeah. 
What do they? 

2584
02:01:57,320 --> 02:01:59,520
I don't think they have brass 
instruments in Westeros, do 

2585
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:01,560
they? 
They probably have woodwinds, 

2586
02:02:01,560 --> 02:02:03,400
but I don't know. 
There's probably trumpets that 

2587
02:02:03,400 --> 02:02:04,120
announce there. 
You might. 

2588
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:04,800
Yeah, you're right. 
There might be. 

2589
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:07,560
Are there trumpets? 
There are horns. 

2590
02:02:08,280 --> 02:02:09,840
I don't know. 
There are horns. 

2591
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:11,600
I don't. 
Know if they have trumpets, 

2592
02:02:11,600 --> 02:02:14,800
though they might. 
If they have anything, they have

2593
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:16,400
trumpets. 
That's like that's like the 

2594
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:18,320
simplest one. 
There's definitely horns. 

2595
02:02:18,440 --> 02:02:19,120
Yeah. 
So I would think. 

2596
02:02:19,160 --> 02:02:21,080
Like, I think they, well, they 
use the word trumpet. 

2597
02:02:21,080 --> 02:02:23,280
I think like it trumpets their 
arrival. 

2598
02:02:23,280 --> 02:02:26,160
But whether that means a 
trumpet, I don't know. 

2599
02:02:26,160 --> 02:02:27,520
But I think they use the. 
Word. 

2600
02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:28,840
I think you're probably right. 
Yeah. 

2601
02:02:28,840 --> 02:02:31,760
And there there there's other 
fairly advanced metal metal 

2602
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:33,120
things, so. 
Find it, Sean. 

2603
02:02:33,240 --> 02:02:35,760
Woke in darkness to the blare of
trumpets. 

2604
02:02:35,760 --> 02:02:37,080
There it is. 
She was shaking her by the 

2605
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:37,880
shoulder. 
As Tyrion. 

2606
02:02:37,880 --> 02:02:39,400
There's 76. 
That's a real trumpet. 

2607
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:40,280
Yes. 
OK, cool. 

2608
02:02:40,280 --> 02:02:41,480
So that that settles it. 
Yeah. 

2609
02:02:41,480 --> 02:02:44,320
All right. 
This is definitely trumpets and 

2610
02:02:44,320 --> 02:02:46,360
that's there are also similar 
instruments there can't there 

2611
02:02:46,360 --> 02:02:50,600
can't just be 1 brass, brass 
instrument. 

2612
02:02:50,600 --> 02:02:53,960
It's not that's the only one. 
So the we don't know what kind 

2613
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:56,440
of physical legacy there is for 
myriad. 

2614
02:02:56,440 --> 02:02:59,400
We don't even really know how 
the Martells bury their dead. 

2615
02:02:59,760 --> 02:03:01,640
Honestly we don't know what the 
what kind of traditions they 

2616
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:03,360
have there. 
They probably just have a crypt 

2617
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:05,120
or something you know with some 
graveyard. 

2618
02:03:05,120 --> 02:03:10,280
I don't know for Rais. 
We know that the Targaryens do 

2619
02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:11,960
ashes. 
You know, they burn their 

2620
02:03:11,960 --> 02:03:14,560
bodies, but they didn't have 
Rainey's body unless it was 

2621
02:03:14,560 --> 02:03:17,320
delivered to them in secret. 
Aegon did build the Sept of 

2622
02:03:17,320 --> 02:03:21,000
Remembrance on Rainey's Hill, 
AKA the Hill of Rainey's, as it 

2623
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:24,480
was described in the rod example
there. 

2624
02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:28,080
And we don't know exactly when 
it was started or finished, to 

2625
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:29,920
be honest. 
It's a significant building. 

2626
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:31,280
It's a Sept. 
So it would would have been a 

2627
02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:34,640
long time to build that, but I 
would guess he started building 

2628
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:37,520
it like right after her death or
maybe right after the war. 

2629
02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:39,520
You know, maybe money might have
been tight during the war. 

2630
02:03:39,520 --> 02:03:42,440
But once it was over, yeah, like
go ahead and allocate the funds 

2631
02:03:42,440 --> 02:03:45,040
for that. 
If you don't remember the Sept 

2632
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:48,440
of Remembrance, that's because 
it's not there anymore. 

2633
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:54,280
It's it's been replaced. 
And then the new thing has since

2634
02:03:54,280 --> 02:03:57,040
been burned, and that new thing 
is the Dragon pit, which of 

2635
02:03:57,040 --> 02:03:59,880
course is in ruins. 
So yeah, a lot has changed on 

2636
02:03:59,880 --> 02:04:02,560
the Hill of Rainies afterwards, 
and that ties partly into the 

2637
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:05,160
whole interplay between the two 
cadet branches. 

2638
02:04:05,160 --> 02:04:08,560
Nothing like getting rid of the 
Sept of Remembrance as a way to 

2639
02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:12,440
prehensively wipe out memory of 
that side of the family. 

2640
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:16,680
Which, yes, indeed, Megor was 
responsible for that. 

2641
02:04:16,680 --> 02:04:18,480
And we'll be talking about 
Megor. 

2642
02:04:18,480 --> 02:04:20,160
Not next week. 
Well, we will be talking about 

2643
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:21,960
Megor next week, but not Megor's
reign. 

2644
02:04:22,760 --> 02:04:25,960
We will be talking more about 
the reign of Aegon the 

2645
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:27,320
Conqueror. 
The peace process. 

2646
02:04:27,320 --> 02:04:32,920
The Dragon's peace, Yes. 
Not his piece of cake, though 

2647
02:04:32,920 --> 02:04:35,440
perhaps in some ways it was a 
piece of cake compared to the 

2648
02:04:35,440 --> 02:04:38,560
1st 13 years of his rule. 
Anyway, as part of our outro, a 

2649
02:04:38,560 --> 02:04:42,600
few of you at least sent in. 
Well, two people sent in dragon 

2650
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:45,560
acronyms, at least for now. 
We may get more later as more 

2651
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:46,880
people hear this episode, but 
for now. 

2652
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:50,200
From fox and brambles, who did 
our logo, the history of 

2653
02:04:50,200 --> 02:04:54,240
Westeros logo that y'all see all
the time, she said. 

2654
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:57,960
Daring, regal aesthetic. 
Gorgeous, organic. 

2655
02:04:57,960 --> 02:05:01,000
Noble according to Delirium. 
No, that's good. 

2656
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:03,760
That's good and wheezy, Squeeze 
Box says. 

2657
02:05:03,760 --> 02:05:06,680
Dreadful, raging, awful, ghastly
omnivore. 

2658
02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:09,120
Nasty, ghastly and nasty. 
I like it nastily. 

2659
02:05:09,200 --> 02:05:10,720
Ghastly. 
Nas, according to the Dornish, 

2660
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:12,160
yes. 
According to the Dornish, that's

2661
02:05:12,160 --> 02:05:17,960
right, yes, both sides weighing 
in with an acronym Dornish. 

2662
02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:20,440
James says in The Feast for 
Crows, John sends Darian to Old 

2663
02:05:20,440 --> 02:05:22,200
Town, with Sam and Maester 
aiming in the hope that he will 

2664
02:05:22,200 --> 02:05:24,280
sing songs to encourage more men
to join the Nights Watch. 

2665
02:05:24,280 --> 02:05:26,600
That's right, great example, 
Darian. 

2666
02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:31,040
Not a very good person, but 
honey poured over Thunder is the

2667
02:05:31,040 --> 02:05:34,360
description of his voice. 
So absolutely good at that part 

2668
02:05:34,360 --> 02:05:36,120
of his job. 
And that's the smart use of his 

2669
02:05:36,120 --> 02:05:38,720
abilities. 
Like John, maybe John could have

2670
02:05:39,440 --> 02:05:41,520
maybe figured out that he 
wouldn't actually do his job 

2671
02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:46,160
given his personality, but that 
is a good use of a singer in the

2672
02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:49,280
Night's Watch is to recruit. 
If that one crappy recruit 

2673
02:05:49,720 --> 02:05:52,520
recruits 3 decent recruits, 
well, that's a better job. 

2674
02:05:52,640 --> 02:05:54,200
That's the best thing you're 
going to get out of him. 

2675
02:05:55,600 --> 02:05:58,920
So pretty good, pretty good 
thinking John, even if you maybe

2676
02:05:58,920 --> 02:06:01,800
missed one little aspect of it, 
but Ari took care of that. 

2677
02:06:01,920 --> 02:06:04,040
You might have just needed 
another able bodied. 

2678
02:06:04,200 --> 02:06:08,040
Someone to stick with him. 
Yeah, like Sam and the Maester 

2679
02:06:08,040 --> 02:06:09,720
are gonna struggle in his 
voyage. 

2680
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:11,400
You know who's carrying the 
luggage or whatever. 

2681
02:06:11,400 --> 02:06:12,080
But. 
Good point. 

2682
02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:14,680
Yeah. 
And of course, Aria put all that

2683
02:06:14,680 --> 02:06:18,760
to rest anyway. 
So sorry, Darian, you did. 

2684
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:22,080
And. 
But not Aria's first kill just 

2685
02:06:22,080 --> 02:06:25,720
for first kill in Bravos, right?
Yeah, that was her first Bravosi

2686
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:26,320
kill. 
I think. 

2687
02:06:26,440 --> 02:06:28,360
Not sanctioned by the Faceless 
Men. 

2688
02:06:28,360 --> 02:06:31,160
They weren't happy about that, 
but they still gave her more 

2689
02:06:31,160 --> 02:06:34,520
kills later 'cause she's 
talented at it and they don't 

2690
02:06:34,520 --> 02:06:37,160
find many recruits. 
Speaking of, you don't find many

2691
02:06:37,160 --> 02:06:38,720
people with the voice with Honey
Port over Thunder. 

2692
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:41,360
You also don't find many 
recruits for the House of Black 

2693
02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:43,720
and White. 
So both are very rare skills, 

2694
02:06:44,080 --> 02:06:46,960
rare skill sets, rather our 
trivia question. 

2695
02:06:46,960 --> 02:06:48,800
The answer. 
The question was Dornish Blank 

2696
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:50,960
became slang north of the Red 
Mountains for cowardice. 

2697
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:54,800
Fill in the blank Courage. 
Dornish courage was a mocking, 

2698
02:06:55,520 --> 02:06:59,280
like sarcastic term for 
cowardice. 

2699
02:06:59,280 --> 02:07:02,800
Dornish courage means cowardice.
Yes, that that doesn't seem to 

2700
02:07:02,800 --> 02:07:04,400
have carried over into modern 
time. 

2701
02:07:04,400 --> 02:07:07,720
So that was that was a maybe a 
shorter term phrase. 

2702
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:11,920
We mentioned a few episodes that
you might want to check out if 

2703
02:07:11,920 --> 02:07:14,560
you haven't already because they
are related to this one of 

2704
02:07:14,560 --> 02:07:18,960
course the Nymeria episodes. 
Daron the First came up hardcore

2705
02:07:18,960 --> 02:07:20,480
houses. 
We didn't mention it by name, 

2706
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:22,680
but we talked about that The 
Ullers, which is one of the 

2707
02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:26,640
hardcore houses under the 
Dragons Hightower, Reigns of 

2708
02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:28,680
Castamere. 
That's one that you might be 

2709
02:07:28,680 --> 02:07:29,800
interested in. 
Mantaris. 

2710
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:34,160
We mentioned Valerian, the Doom,
Dragonstone. 

2711
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:36,000
We got lots of episodes on 
Valyria. 

2712
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:38,960
We got an episode on how Celtic 
are They came up in this one, 

2713
02:07:39,320 --> 02:07:41,360
and the Century Blood came up in
this one too. 

2714
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:43,960
We also have the last Storm 
episode available for patrons 

2715
02:07:43,960 --> 02:07:46,080
and members only. 
That's the most recent Patreon 

2716
02:07:46,080 --> 02:07:48,560
episode, but we've got a lot of 
other ones, like say the Red 

2717
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:53,280
Kraken, like Gagasos. 
Yeah, lots of stuff like that. 

2718
02:07:53,280 --> 02:07:55,600
In fact, that Mentarius episode 
I mentioned is technically a 

2719
02:07:55,600 --> 02:08:00,120
Patrons only episode, and Sean 
is here to read a few fun 

2720
02:08:00,200 --> 02:08:03,560
Patreon names. 
As always, I'll do a couple old.

2721
02:08:03,560 --> 02:08:06,200
A couple new. 
Got Robert, the Red Falcon of 

2722
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:07,280
Winterfell. 
Nice. 

2723
02:08:08,120 --> 02:08:11,880
Lady Jane of House, Celtic car, 
wielder of Larren, steel axe 

2724
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:14,760
painkiller. 
I hope I say this one right. 

2725
02:08:14,760 --> 02:08:17,040
I know how to say it properly. 
I'll correct you if you get it 

2726
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:17,600
wrong. 
Go ahead. 

2727
02:08:18,480 --> 02:08:21,240
Lady Laxara Dazo. 
Lazara. 

2728
02:08:21,440 --> 02:08:22,240
Almost. 
You almost. 

2729
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:23,800
Lazara. 
Okay, very close. 

2730
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:27,360
I knew with the HI knew to make 
it the show but yeah, Lady 

2731
02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:32,680
Lazara Dajo the Iron Lily. 
Master Archer Castellan of the 

2732
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:37,360
summer island keep arboreal 
point Captain of the all female 

2733
02:08:37,360 --> 02:08:40,800
wailing widows women and 
children first Yeah that was 

2734
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:43,200
like a two liner and that was 
like a Danny level. 

2735
02:08:43,200 --> 02:08:45,840
Yeah, I. 
Love that one and. 

2736
02:08:46,000 --> 02:08:50,400
Then we got Sir Devin Snow, the 
Wolf Hammer, Shadow of Wolfwood.

2737
02:08:50,480 --> 02:08:55,680
Yeah, Lydia, Mother of 
Frenchies, Breaker of Chairs and

2738
02:08:55,680 --> 02:08:58,720
Royce Aaron, the bronze Falcon 
of the Veil. 

2739
02:08:58,800 --> 02:08:59,880
Nice. 
Like it? 

2740
02:08:59,880 --> 02:09:00,560
Yeah. 
Royce. 

2741
02:09:00,560 --> 02:09:01,960
Aaron. 
Mixing Royce and Aaron. 

2742
02:09:01,960 --> 02:09:03,680
Bronze and Falcons. 
That's cool. 

2743
02:09:03,680 --> 02:09:05,480
Got to like that, The two big 
houses there. 

2744
02:09:05,480 --> 02:09:07,720
Thanks again to Nina for the 
great takes. 

2745
02:09:07,920 --> 02:09:10,920
Lots of good ones this time. 
Nothing unusual about that, 

2746
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:13,400
though. 
That is a regular thing I say at

2747
02:09:13,400 --> 02:09:17,120
the end of these episodes 
because it's true so often. 

2748
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:19,880
Thanks as well to Joey, Jesse 
and Bran and Michael Klarfeld 

2749
02:09:19,880 --> 02:09:24,480
for the various intros and 
outros we have in our show. 

2750
02:09:24,480 --> 02:09:27,720
Whether it's this one or our 
House of the Dragon coverage, we

2751
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:29,920
got a lot of different looks we 
bring you, and those are the 

2752
02:09:29,920 --> 02:09:32,760
fellows that help with that. 
Michael Clarkfeld's maps are 

2753
02:09:32,760 --> 02:09:34,480
always on display here behind 
me. 

2754
02:09:35,120 --> 02:09:37,120
Sean's got his and. 
Of course, Michael Clarkfeld 

2755
02:09:37,120 --> 02:09:40,560
also did our our intro and outro
that y'all love so much. 

2756
02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:40,960
That's. 
True. 

2757
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:43,640
Our most famous outro intro. 
Outro meaning because it's was 

2758
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:45,560
it was our first one. 
Yeah, we also have a House of 

2759
02:09:45,560 --> 02:09:48,760
the Dragon one that is done by 
Bran, but yeah, Michael does the

2760
02:09:48,760 --> 02:09:50,800
one that is going to play in 
just a minute. 

2761
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:55,760
So my friends and fellow 
historians, if you want to hook 

2762
02:09:55,760 --> 02:09:58,200
up with us on our social media 
sites, do so. 

2763
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:02,240
Face hook up with us. 
Yes, Yes, through virtually, 

2764
02:10:02,240 --> 02:10:06,520
yes. 
Facebook, Twitter, our Patreon. 

2765
02:10:06,520 --> 02:10:09,200
We've got lots of ways to 
interact with us, our discord, 

2766
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:12,080
of course. 
I believe all those links are in

2767
02:10:12,080 --> 02:10:14,280
the description. 
Whether you're reading the 

2768
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:17,560
description of the podcast 
episode or the video, wherever 

2769
02:10:17,560 --> 02:10:18,720
you're seeing it, it should be 
there. 

2770
02:10:19,000 --> 02:10:21,640
And if you don't find it, just 
go to historywesteros.com. 

2771
02:10:21,640 --> 02:10:24,080
It's got links to everything, 
whether it's one of our sponsors

2772
02:10:24,240 --> 02:10:27,400
or just our different social 
media spots, as well as all our 

2773
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:30,640
episodes. 
Until next time, Valar, reread 

2774
02:10:30,640 --> 02:10:30,960
us.