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Titles, Thrones, crowns, lands, 
power. 

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These are the contested elements
within the Game of Thrones. 

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Humans will go to great lengths 
to achieve those lofty heights. 

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We've seen in fiction and in the
real world countless attempts to

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use military might to win these 
ultimate prizes. 

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But brute force and domination 
is not the only tool in the 

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power brokers arsenal. 
Deception can go a long way. 

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Even now in current times, 
identity theft and 

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impersonations are commonplace 
and we can only imagine how the 

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lack of photography and 
centralized documentation made 

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impersonations a lot easier. 
The ancient world, medieval 

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world, Westeros, these are 
places where impersonations work

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differently. 
In A Song of Ice and Fire, there

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are many cases of deception used
to win, claim or hold the 

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throne. 
Joffrey's true heritage, for 

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example. 
Young griffs in another one. 

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In the latter's case, babies can
be swapped or simply produced 

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with a conjured back story. 
In other words, you can claim 

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the babies were swapped. 
Doesn't mean it's true. 

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Real world history is chock full
of such examples as well that 

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many of which were inspirations 
for George. 

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And that's our focus today, 
because there's so many 

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examples, we'll focus primarily 
on the ones that actually have a

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Song of Ice and Fire parallels, 
using the Song of Ice and Fire 

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to get to those examples. 
Sometimes the other way. 

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But most of the most of the 
times, we'll start with the Song

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of Ice and Fire example and show
the historical parallel. 

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And pretenders or imposters are 
often intertwined. 

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After all, what's the point of 
impersonating a powerful person 

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if you're not going to get 
something out of it? 

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Like claim a title or wealth or 
something like that? 

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And that's where the pretenders 
come in. 

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Because a pretender, it sounds 
like an impersonator, but it's 

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really just someone who's trying
to claim a title. 

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Step one, impersonate. 
Step 2. 

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Claim the title. 
Step 3. 

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Live or die by the success of 
the plan. 

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So profit or die, win or die, 
right? 

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The back and forth nature of who
is and who isn't a pretender is 

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a good reflection of the 
overused, but still often true 

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notion that the winners write 
history. 

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This is more of a built in thing
and latter historical invention.

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The word pretender in this 
context is only a few centuries 

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old in terms of the real world 
and it but the concept goes back

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way farther. 
The obvious, any people fighting

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over a crown? 
False king, claimant, usurper. 

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There's lots of terms for these 
things. 

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Pretenders still look confusing 
because it sounds a lot like 

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imposter. 
But these are very different 

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things that are just related and
overlapped. 

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So the the point being here that
the holder of the crown gets to 

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call the other person the 
pretender, but if that changes 

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then that person becomes a 
pretender as long as they're 

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still fighting. 
It's kind of not unlike how the 

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Brotherhood Without Banners went
from King's Men to Rebels 

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because while they were off on 
their mission, the person who 

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was King changed, right? 
This episode features some 

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follow-ups to our Wars of the 
Roses episode and our Black 

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Dinner of Scotland episodes. 
There's many familiar elements 

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and some of the same historical 
figures that will show up in 

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here, and some descendants of 
those historical figures in 

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other cases. 
You don't have to have heard 

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those episodes to keep up. 
They're not vital, they're just 

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fun. 
They add to the full picture of 

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this, but you could also listen 
to them afterwards. 

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I don't suppose the order 
matters a whole lot, so if 

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you're a fan of our historical 
deep dives, this one's 

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definitely in that category. 
Roughly half A Song of Ice and 

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Fire, half IRL history. 
Lots of intriguing new 

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characters. 
Familiar names. 

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Names you've heard a million 
times. 

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Like Edward, Richard, Henry, 
Aegon, all that and more on this

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episode of History of Westeros 
podcast. 

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Hello and welcome back 
everybody. 

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And if you are watching us live,
it must be about 3:00 PM Eastern

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on YouTube because that's where 
we're live almost every Sunday. 

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Afterwards though, you can find 
a better sounding and edited 

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version on Spotify about a week 
later and on anywhere you look 

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for podcasts, any podcast 
platform, you can find our 

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episodes as well if you listen 
to us on Patreon, add free. 

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That's nice. 
Shout out to our good friend 

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Nina. 
She knows quite a bit about a 

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lot of these historical topics, 
especially the Jacobites, who as

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a parallel to the black fires 
who we'll talk about today. 

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And she also gave me some 
insight on some literary 

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inspiration from George from the
Accursed Kings, Nina's favorite,

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and I love to drop those notes 
whenever we can. 

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This is a good time for it. 
Her latest blog post over on 

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goodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 
That's one. 

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L in Alley is responding to a 
question about Alice Rivers and 

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Luca Morstrom's bastards. 
Check it out. 

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Also shout out to Matt Rees, AKA
Aurelian Mattheus Orisius, Lord 

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of House Aurelian, ruler of 
Domus Aurelianus and the Valley 

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of Tennessee, wielder of Soul. 
Invictus is might be Valyrian 

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steel, that blade and keeper of 
the largest collection of books 

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outside the citadel with the 
motto we restore the world. 

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Matt sent me 7 pages of notes 
for this one. 

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He's very excited about this 
episode. 

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He's been a patron for a long 
time And big participator in 

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Topicsmoot, which was where this
episode was first chosen. 

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It was this is #8 from 
Topicsmoot 2025 out of 16, so 

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about halfway through. 
Looking good. 

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Yeah. 
And of course, that title I read

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is the title that Matt chose for
his Patreon title. 

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If you're a patron, you get to 
choose cool titles like that. 

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At the end of this one, I'll 
mention some episodes that 

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relate to this one to stay 
immersed. 

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We love to give you that 
opportunity. 

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And we'll start with a trivia 
question, the answer of which 

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will also be at the end. 
The Moon of Three Kings, which 

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we could also call the Anarchy 
of King's Landing, actually only

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featured 2 kings, which of the 
Three Kings wasn't actually 

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claiming to be a king. 
Like I said, answer at the end. 

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22 page document today. 
Let me read you the titles of 

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each section as a little teaser 
and then we'll get right to it. 

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This is our set up. 
Then we're going to do what are 

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pretenders and imposters? 
A little primer for you, The 

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most recent pretender in A Song 
of Ice and Fire. 

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Then Megor versus Aegon the 
Uncrowned. 

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Then we go through each book 
just to discuss the pretenders 

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and and cases like that with a 
few historical parallels, but 

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most of the historical parallels
are later in the episode. 

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So Game of Thrones, the clash of
kings, the storm of swords, the 

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Feast for crows, Dance of 
Dragons. 

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Then we begin our dance of the 
anarchy section, which is play 

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on words based on the fact that 
the dance of the Dragons was 

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inspired by the anarchy of 
England. 

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These are divided into sections.
We got the before the during the

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moon of the three kings, dare on
the daring, then the end and the

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aftermath. 
So for both the dance and the 

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anarchy, we've got quite a bit. 
Then we have our code of the 

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week, the Black Fire rebellions 
and the Jacobites risings. 

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And that'll be it for the 
episode lot in store today. 

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Let's get right to it. 
Oh, First off, we have a a super

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chat from Corn Emperor. 
Appreciate that. 

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Corn Emperor says love you all. 
I hope all is well. 

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Well, we are sitting here 
getting to tell you about some 

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fun stuff that I enjoyed 
researching and reading about. 

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So I I'm doing great. 
Honestly, this is a, a great 

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place to be telling you all 
about stuff that I really enjoy.

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So I'm I'm lucky about that and 
happy about that and grateful 

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about that. 
So let's do it. 

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What are pretenders and 
imposters? 

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Real quick, though, just in case
you are spoiler reverse for hot 

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DI. 
Assume most of you aren't or 

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even if if not all, because I 
assume you've read fire and 

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blood. 
But just in case we do have 

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spoilers in this one. 
So what are pretenders and 

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imposters? 
A pretender? 

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Well, it's someone who pretends,
right? 

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Or a member of the band. 
The pretenders, right? 

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Yes, but we're talking about the
other definition of pretender, 

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which is someone who is trying 
to claim a title, usually royal 

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one, but really any title. 
You can be a pretender to any 

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noble title you call themselves.
You can call yourself king, 

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queen, Prince, Princess, 
emperor, Lord, lady, whatever 

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leader title it is, but you 
don't actually have it. 

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You're claiming it. 
You're calling yourself that, 

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but you don't actually possess 
it. 

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So it can end with the pretender
becoming the real thing if they 

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win, right? 
One of the best examples comes 

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up a lot is the Blackfyre. 
So we'll be talking about them 

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today. 
Damon Blackfyre was a pretender 

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who failed. 
Meanwhile, Robert Baratheon, 

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solid example of a pretender who
succeeded. 

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Renly would be a good example of
another pretender who failed. 

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Stannis a little more 
complicated because his status 

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changed, so we'll talk about him
a little bit and he's also still

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out there. 
And of course, Daenerys 

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Targaryen technically pretender 
to the Iron Throne. 

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So it can be a descendant of a 
deposed family, you know, 

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relative or the actual person 
that was deposed and is trying 

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to get there a thrown back. 
You know, sometimes you survive 

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being overthrown. 
Queen Anne I popularized this 

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word using it to refer to her 
Roman Catholic half brother 

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James Francis Edward Stewart who
is a topic of this episode. 

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He was the Jacobite heir of the 
time and an address to 

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Parliament in 17 O 8 Queen Anne 
said the French fleet sailed 

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from Dunkirk with the pretender 
on board. 

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Pretender capitalized well, just
the P, not the whole word. 

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So that's pretty neat. 
It's only been maybe the word's 

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only been used for roughly 300 
some years, but I guess I said 

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in the intro, the concept has 
been around forever. 

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Obviously challenges, usurpers, 
anything, whatever you want to 

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call it now imposter. 
Let's talk about that briefly. 

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And of course, in a greater 
context, just like pretender, 

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the, the definition is 
straightforward, but in this 

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context, it's a little different
because we're only focused on 

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people who impersonate rulers or
claimants, right? 

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People who have a, a, a way to 
get titles. 

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So a Faceless man replacing 
Pate, well, that's an imposter, 

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but it's not the kind of 
imposter that we care about 

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today. 
That obviously that's such a 

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broad category, we got to break 
it down into subcategories. 

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Now, if a Faceless Man were to, 
say, impersonate Rhaegar 

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Targaryen, that would count if 
they were trying to claim the 

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throne, if he just tried to be 
Rhaegar Targaryen to, you know, 

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get women to sleep with him, 
that doesn't really count. 

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That's a wreck. 
That's a different kind of 

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impostature. 
So. 

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And of course, you don't need 
supernatural elements. 

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You don't need Faceless Men. 
Obviously the real world is full

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of imposters and they're not 
using Faceless Men technology or

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supernatural stuff. 
You can just use lies. 

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That's the general way it works.
Like such as claiming you're the

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son of Rhaegar Targaryen and 
sounding so very sincere about 

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it because you are sincere about
it, because you were raised to 

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believe it. 
There's a chance it's even true.

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I personally don't think Aegon 
is the son of Rhaegar, but it's 

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a great example for us either 
way. 

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An unwitting imposter and a 
pretender. 

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This is quite simply someone who
right, pardon the confusion, 

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pretends to be one of the above 
or pretends to be an heir of the

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legitimate family. 
That's why pretender and 

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imposter kind of get confusing 
when they're used together, even

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though they need to be, because 
they're so intertwined in A Song

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of Ice and Fire and The Real 
World, like for Joffrey. 

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Like Aegon imposter, but never a
pretender. 

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Because the imposter worked. 
Enough people were convinced or 

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at least played along that 
Joffrey was truly a Baratheon, 

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00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:51,520
right? 
He had to. 

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He had to fight to keep his 
throne, but he didn't have to 

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really do much to get it in the 
first place thanks to, you know,

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00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:59,760
Littlefinger and Cersei and all 
that. 

225
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,000
Roose Bolton is using a fake 
Aria, but this isn't. 

226
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,800
This is sort of a pretender 
situation, but you could argue 

227
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,880
it isn't because Ari is not the 
ruling lady. 

228
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,720
Though the imposter play is 
about claiming Winterfell, so I 

229
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,320
think it probably is a pretender
situation, but one that is 

230
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,320
already could be arguably be 
already resolved temporarily. 

231
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,400
Game and pale hair. 
Another good example here, a 

232
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,280
false claim that he was the son 
of Aegon the Second. 

233
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,280
And this is based on an IRL 
example, a man called Lambert 

234
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,280
Signal, who we will delve into a
bit later. 

235
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,960
The most recent pretender. 
When the series begins, it's 

236
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,720
roughly the year 298, maybe 297 
during the prologue. 

237
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,200
Doesn't really matter too much. 
The most recent pretender is 

238
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,920
Bail on Greyjoy. 
Here's the World of Ice and 

239
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,800
Fire, referring to the period 
after Robert Baratheon became 

240
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:50,480
king. 
Quote. 

241
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:56,920
Six years after he was crowned, 
Balon Greyjoy unlawfully rose 

242
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,720
against his king, not for any 
harm done to him or to his 

243
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,280
people, but merely out of wanton
ambition. 

244
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,840
Lord Stannis Baratheon, Robert's
middle brother, led the royal 

245
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:16,080
fleet against Lord Greyjoy, 
while King Robert himself rode 

246
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,320
at the head of a mighty host. 
Great feats of arms were 

247
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,640
performed by King Robert when 
Pike was eventually taken and 

248
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,640
subdued. 
The king then made Balon 

249
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,800
Greyjoy, the pretender to the 
crown of the Iron Isles, bend 

250
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:38,680
the knee to the Iron Throne, and
as assurance of his fealty, his 

251
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,200
only surviving son was taken 
hostage. 

252
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,000
Narrator, his only surviving son
was not assurance of his fealty.

253
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,560
He went right for it, even with 
Theon in captivity. 

254
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,720
Theon got away, but Bailon 
wouldn't have wouldn't have 

255
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,720
paused his or not started his 
second rebellion because of 

256
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,480
Theon. 
Now there's a semantic argument 

257
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,320
here whether being crowned is 
what makes you a pretender or 

258
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,800
actually achieving stability and
peace under your authority. 

259
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,760
Are you king? 
Sorry, not being crowned makes 

260
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,240
you a pretender but makes you a 
king? 

261
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,640
Are you king the moment you 
crowned yourself or are? 

262
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,080
Was Balin never actually king 
because he didn't succeed? 

263
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,240
Was he? 
It's it's a matter of 

264
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,920
perspective. 
The Ironborn treated him like a 

265
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,320
king the minute he called 
himself a king. 

266
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,560
For the most part, they followed
his order. 

267
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,200
I mean, it's not that much 
different than following his 

268
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,240
orders as the Lord. 
So it's really just as simple as

269
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,280
his title has changed. 
We're still following his 

270
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,000
orders. 
Oh, oh, his orders are to go 

271
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,360
against the king, the the king 
on the Iron Throne. 

272
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,120
That could get us all killed. 
But they still did it. 

273
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,560
They clearly followed him. 
And yeah. 

274
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:53,080
I assume all Ironborn historians
call him King Bailon. 

275
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,960
Good point, but but like 
maestros at the Citadel, I don't

276
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,320
know. 
Doesn't call him King Bailon. 

277
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,520
In this passage it says crowned 
himself unlawfully wrote. 

278
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,280
Yeah, but that's part of because
he lost. 

279
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,800
If he had won, they'd probably 
be forced to admit, yeah, that's

280
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,320
a king now he won, and he's an 
independent country or Kingdom. 

281
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,680
So I tend to side with the 
latter. 

282
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,920
I think putting a crown on your 
head and calling yourself king 

283
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,440
is too low a bar. 
Yeah, I think you actually have 

284
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,800
to like win, even if only 
briefly. 

285
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,960
I mean, I could put a crown on 
my head and call myself king 

286
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,920
right now. 
Exactly my point. 

287
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,160
I'd follow you though, so you'd 
have at least one follower, and 

288
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,280
we'd and our cats would follow 
you too, so we'd have at least 

289
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,280
five of us, you know, in an army
there. 

290
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,040
Are you going to put me in 
charge of the cats, or do I have

291
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,880
to follow one of them, one of 
their orders? 

292
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,640
No, you're definitely following 
their orders. 

293
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,960
I'm a I'm just a grunt. 
I'm just a foot soldier in this 

294
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,840
army. 
Megor versus Aegon the 

295
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,520
Uncrowned. 
This is another case where the 

296
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,160
air was usurped completely and 
perhaps completely by surprise, 

297
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,760
because it doesn't seem like he 
saw it coming at all. 

298
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,160
He certainly wasn't prepared for
it, and it's the first case of a

299
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,120
pretender and a usurpation under
the Iron Throne. 

300
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:10,560
Here's what we're told. 
Quote. 

301
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:16,080
Though Lyman Lannister, Lord of 
Casterly Rock, stood firm when 

302
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,520
Magor demanded that Aegon and 
his sister be returned to King's

303
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:26,960
Landing, quote in chains if need
be, even he would not go so far 

304
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,880
as to pledge his sword to the 
youth who now found himself 

305
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:35,720
being called quote the Pretender
and quote Aegon the Uncrowned. 

306
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,160
So the lawful Arab became a 
pretender just like that because

307
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,280
he was usurped while he was away
from the capital and he failed 

308
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,560
to overcome that. 
He wasn't able to take it back. 

309
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,240
Magor killed him in a dragon on 
dragon battle. 

310
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:49,520
That probably shouldn't have 
happened. 

311
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,680
I mean, what are you doing going
up against Valerian with 

312
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,880
Quicksilver there? 
That is a tiny dragon versus a 

313
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,120
huge one. 
Anyway, Magor was not king for 

314
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,040
very long, was it 4 years? 
Six years I forget. 

315
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,280
And he eventually lost to 
another pretender, a certain 

316
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,440
Jaharis. 
Yes, Jaharis was technically a 

317
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,280
pretender very briefly because 
Magor's reign collapsed so fast 

318
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,359
it wasn't much of a conflict. 
But technically Jaharis would 

319
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,640
have had pretender status very 
briefly there. 

320
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,480
It's interesting that Jaharis 
doesn't rewrite history to, you 

321
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,480
know, give Aegon more 
lawfulness. 

322
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,839
It's tricky because if he were 
to do that, he would maybe in 

323
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,680
admitting that his older sister 
was the true heir and not him. 

324
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,480
Yeah, Yeah, 'cause Reyna still 
survived and that. 

325
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,560
Yeah. 
So it gets complicated. 

326
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,480
And Reyna did complain about 
that a little bit. 

327
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,400
Fair, you know, fairly, you got 
to say. 

328
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,080
But you bring up a good point. 
These things are not simple. 

329
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,800
In some cases. 
A lot of it is a matter of 

330
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,760
perspective. 
Now there, of course, there are 

331
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,600
many nonviolent pretenders at 
the Great Council of One O 1 

332
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,880
upon Jerry's death 55 some years
later, they weren't called 

333
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,240
pretenders. 
It wasn't like a group of 

334
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,240
pretenders. 
Because that's kind of it kind 

335
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,720
of gives the wrong impression. 
Technically it's true though, I 

336
00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,600
think. 
And what? 

337
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,240
Is a pretender but a claimant. 
Yeah, I mean, a pretender and a 

338
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,040
claimant are, I think not all 
claimants are pretenders, but 

339
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,000
all pretenders are claimants, I 
think you could say. 

340
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,920
And we'll have a lot more 
historical examples too, which 

341
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,520
are mostly Civil War type 
scenarios. 

342
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,240
In the second-half. 
Let's go into A Song of Ice and 

343
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:21,240
Fire first, The Game of Thrones.
With the title A Game of 

344
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,480
Thrones, you would indeed expect
a fight for the throne or 

345
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,040
Thrones, and thus pretenders are
a sure thing. 

346
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,560
And, well, that is exactly what 
happens. 

347
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,520
Meanwhile, impostors are a fun 
tool in the storyteller's 

348
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,600
arsenal, one made extra potent 
because there's so many real 

349
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,720
world examples surrounding 
titles and pretenders. 

350
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,280
Imposter pretenders, right? 
Kind of sounds like a repetitive

351
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,640
thing, but no. 
Even before the War of 5 Kings 

352
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,880
began, which really kind of 
kicked off in Clash of Kings, 

353
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,320
not Game of Thrones, but we'll 
say Viserys, Danny's brother, 

354
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,840
was a pretender. 
He's the first one we see in 

355
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,880
that role. 
Well, Balon's is the most recent

356
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,400
attempt. 
Viserys is the first active 

357
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,160
pretender that we see kind of 
walking around now. 

358
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,520
Robert very early on was afraid 
that Daenerys's child would also

359
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,040
become a pretender to the 
throne. 

360
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,440
They weren't actually that 
worried about Viserys. 

361
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,360
They were more worried about 
this unborn child, which they 

362
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,680
were right to be. 
Viserys not a big threat unless 

363
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,320
you consider who was backing 
him. 

364
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,960
That part's threatening. 
But he died quickly and in fact,

365
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,760
after the wine cellar incident, 
which was blamed on Robert, 

366
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,640
which fair play, he was trying 
to assassinate Danny. 

367
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,920
Drogo does name his unborn son 
Rago as a pretender. 

368
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,800
He says I will place the my son 
on the eye. 

369
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,400
Well, he says iron chair. 
Same difference, right? 

370
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,400
As an aside, how does this work 
with calls? 

371
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,520
There's not really pretenders. 
You can't really be a pretender 

372
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,280
to a Kalasar 'cause they follow 
strength. 

373
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,960
When a call dies, you might say 
you have pretender calls who are

374
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,360
trying to form new Kalasars, but
you don't really see kalasars 

375
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,640
get taken over by others, sort 
of. 

376
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,040
You might see remnants of them 
join new ones. 

377
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:06,960
But it's another scenario where 
perspective and culture changes 

378
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,080
the equation. 
Here. 

379
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,040
Kalasar is already something 
like a mobile nation, a mobile 

380
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,440
Kingdom. 
So if you think of it that way, 

381
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,760
yeah, it's like this type of 
Kingdom that only lasts as long 

382
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,360
as its current ruler, so it is 
hard to have claims to things 

383
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,360
that don't exist later. 
Then we learn pretty quickly 

384
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,200
though, as one of the major plot
lines in the Game of Thrones, 

385
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,880
that Joffrey and his siblings 
are imposters. 

386
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:31,680
They don't. 
They're not pretenders because 

387
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,880
they're already on the throne. 
But Renly knows this, and 

388
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,720
because of it, he leaves to 
become a pretender, jumping 

389
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,160
right over his brother. 
Ned, meanwhile, tries to name 

390
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,040
Stannis as the true heir, 
because he is by the laws of 

391
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,920
Westeros. 
But that bid fails because, you 

392
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,680
know, it's not so simple to 
prove. 

393
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,480
And Stannis isn't really that 
excited about working directly 

394
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,720
with Ned. 
He's too proud, especially early

395
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,320
on in the books. 
So he's a pretender as soon as 

396
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,480
he in any any of these 
circumstances, because he didn't

397
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,000
directly inherit, even if he 
should have. 

398
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,840
Joffrey was crowned, his 
authority legitimized. 

399
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,120
That makes Stannis A pretender. 
Unless Stannis says I bend the 

400
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,080
knee, I'm not pushing my claim. 
You can. 

401
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,480
You don't just become a 
pretender because you have a 

402
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:16,800
claim. 
You have to push it. 

403
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,480
You can't just have a claim. 
That's not enough. 

404
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,880
Meanwhile, baby Rago dies, so 
that makes it Danny, a pretender

405
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,560
to the Iron Throne. 
She wasn't one at first, like I 

406
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,880
said, but she obviously is for 
the vast majority of the series,

407
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,960
at least so far. 
So Bailon, as we said, was a 

408
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,000
pretender but not an imposter. 
He could also be called a 

409
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,840
restorer because he was trying 
to bring back a crown that had 

410
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,760
formerly existed. 
Rob, though I don't think you 

411
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,040
could call him a pretender 
because he was crowned. 

412
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,880
He was successful and he was a 
new Kingdom, right? 

413
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,640
It's it's a founding the Kingdom
of the north that existed 

414
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,120
before, but this wasn't the 
Kingdom of the North. 

415
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,520
This was the Kingdom of the 
North and rivers, a Kingdom that

416
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,640
never before existed. 
You could argue that he was a 

417
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,840
still a pretender. 
He was trying to claim a title 

418
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,360
that he made-up. 
So that's where semantics is. 

419
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:05,080
Like I'm not sure but but 
arguably his Kingdom was never 

420
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,680
actually established it. 
It was wartime and the war 

421
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,720
resulted in in losing. 
Even if you won all those 

422
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,520
battles, still man's Raider. 
An interesting case. 

423
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,320
There's another one where the 
laws are different. 

424
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,600
You got a different cultural 
situation. 

425
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,200
It's got some elements of 
Westeros and some elements of 

426
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:25,040
colisars where kings beyond the 
wall don't really come from 

427
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,760
bloodlines. 
It has nothing to do with 

428
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,240
dynastic considerations. 
It's about following strength. 

429
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,760
Someone claims it temporarily, 
but most of the time there isn't

430
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,520
1 so and I can't think of an 
example where a free folk king 

431
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,480
was challenged from within for 
rulership of the free folk. 

432
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,040
It's like Free Folk king, that 
person dies back to the status 

433
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,560
quo. 
They don't have like someone who

434
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,520
takes over afterwards. 
It doesn't really happen. 

435
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,520
But if you ask Elise Baratheon, 
they're trying to overlay the 

436
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,240
Westerossi system on the Free 
Folk. 

437
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,920
And they're like, yeah, Raymond 
Redbeard should be king because 

438
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,200
he's descended from the Last 
King be on the wall, even though

439
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,760
there were plenty of kings be on
the wall before him. 

440
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,240
So it's very arbitrary. 
But they actually have Raymond 

441
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,440
Redbeer's descendants in their, 
you know, in, in, in their 

442
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,760
court. 
So that's why they're picking 

443
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:20,960
that arbitrary person because 
they have that power moving 

444
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,280
forward to Clash of Kings. 
Technically, this is when Balon 

445
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,280
actually launches his bid. 
You know he's he doesn't do 

446
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,840
anything in A Game of Thrones 
besides get ready for it. 

447
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,680
We find out he's been preparing 
all this time, so you could 

448
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,800
argue that it counts. 
Either way, it doesn't matter. 

449
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,080
The point is that he did it. 
So Joffrey is actually crowned 

450
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,560
and as the lawful heir of Robert
and he's even though he's an 

451
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,600
imposter. 
Stannis is the lawful heir but a

452
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,000
pretender, and Renly is a 
pretender too, but he's killed. 

453
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,720
Here's where we get our first 
historical parallel. 

454
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,360
Owain Logak. 
I'm probably saying that wrong. 

455
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,160
First of all, I'm a guy with a 
name that gets mispronounced a 

456
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,120
lot. 
I believe it's a good thing to 

457
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,840
try to pronounce people's names 
correctly, but we got to have 

458
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,280
some leeway, especially when 
languages are really tricky. 

459
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,640
Welsh is so tricky. 
The words are hard for our 

460
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,880
mouths to form because we we we 
aren't using sounds that we're 

461
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,680
used to, and the letters don't 
sound the same. 

462
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,920
Like DD means TH in Welsh and 
like, so the letters that you 

463
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,840
are very familiar with work 
differently in Welsh. 

464
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,840
It's really confusing. 
Anyway, that's why so many Welsh

465
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,720
names are anglicized. 
Owen Owen Logoc is really not 

466
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,880
what they would have called him.
They would have pronounced it 

467
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,480
way differently. 
But anyway, I don't know how to 

468
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,120
say it. 
So he was a descendant, direct 

469
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,840
descendant of Llewellyn the 
Great, making him claimant to 

470
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,600
the Welsh Crown and a pretender.
So, but the Welsh crown didn't 

471
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,640
exist, it was subject to 
England. 

472
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,320
So this is kind of like Balon 
Greyjoy. 

473
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:51,560
He wanted to restore the former 
principality, like Dorn of 

474
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,120
Wales. 
It wasn't a Kingdom, it was a 

475
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:56,200
principality. 
Now at the before he launched 

476
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,960
his bid, he was the leader of a 
free company that fought in the 

477
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,920
100 years war. 
So there you go, a cell sword 

478
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,680
company type situation. 
A guy who led a cell sword 

479
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,320
company. 
He got a little bit of a golden 

480
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,840
company vibe here too, don't we?
With a a cell sword company 

481
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,560
commander who goes on to make a 
claim for a a crown. 

482
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,600
So he announced his intent to 
claim the Welsh throne in the 

483
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,520
year of 1372. 
Initially he had no success but 

484
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,800
didn't die or anything. 
He was able to try again in 

485
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,520
1377, but England got really 
sneaky. 

486
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040
Instead of fighting it out on 
the battlefield, they sent some 

487
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,880
guy named John Scott Lamb to 
kill him. 

488
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,200
And this guy, he didn't just he 
wasn't just like walked up and 

489
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,880
stabbed him or like wait for him
in a dark alley. 

490
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,400
No, he gained his confidence, 
like conned him into being like,

491
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,520
hey, I'm your friend. 
Became one of his Squires and 

492
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,680
then stabbed him. 
What he was like putting on his 

493
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,560
armor, helping him put on his 
armor like poop. 

494
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,040
Gotcha. 
So that was the end of him. 

495
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:55,920
So he was the last direct 
pretender to the Welsh throne 

496
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,800
until Owain Glendower. 
Another one. 

497
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,040
That's not how the Welsh would 
say it, but another Owain is. 

498
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,680
That's neat. 
He tried to overthrow English 

499
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,840
rule in Wales like not long 
after. 

500
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,560
So we had 1377. 
This guy was killed shortly 

501
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,000
after Owain Glendower started a 
15 year war in the year 414 

502
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,160
hundred. 
So only 20 some years later. 

503
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,400
He also was pretender the throne
to Wales was trying to restore 

504
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,280
the principality, but 
interestingly he claimed descent

505
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,840
from all three royal houses of 
Wales. 

506
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,840
All three. 
So same as Baalon Greyjoy and 

507
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,120
Owain Logrock, he was trying to 
restore a crown that had been 

508
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,600
conquered. 
My apologies for comparing 

509
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,120
Baalon Greyjoy to either of 
these Owain's because those are 

510
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,520
national heroes. 
Who Wales and Baalon Greyjoy is 

511
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,880
a villain at one point. 
This Owain Glendower, he was a 

512
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,080
great soldier and commander. 
He served John of Gaunt, which 

513
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,080
you might recall from the Awards
of the Roses episodes. 

514
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,040
He was the Lancastrian 
progenitor. 

515
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,000
And then his son, John of 
Gaunt's son, a certain Henry of 

516
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,560
Bolingbroke, who eventually 
became King Henry the Fourth, 

517
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,720
who was the king that Owain 
Glendower LED this revolt 

518
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,240
against. 
So that's pretty interesting. 

519
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,360
This guy served the king before 
he was king and then LED a 

520
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,320
revolt against him. 
So that this is personal, almost

521
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,000
another familiar name comes up 
here because earlier, earlier in

522
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,400
this revolt, Owain lost a battle
to Hotspur the the character, 

523
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,920
the real life person who the 
character Fireball is based on. 

524
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,720
And that's we've mentioned him 
before as well. 

525
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,520
But Hotspur, after beating Owain
in this battle, he retired from 

526
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,280
English service and you know, 
went back to France and had 

527
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,920
nothing to do with the rest of 
the 14 years of this 15 year 

528
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,800
war. 
Owain started to have more 

529
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,080
success after that. 
And of course, whenever you're 

530
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,040
going to war with England, what 
you should do in this era, you 

531
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,480
what you should always do is 
talk to France and maybe 

532
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,520
Scotland, because France loves 
to help any enemy of England. 

533
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,440
So Wales is fighting for their 
independence. 

534
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,000
France is like, let's help you 
out. 

535
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,640
If Scotland's fighting their 
independence, France is like, 

536
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,480
let me help you out. 
So. 

537
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,760
And Wales is like, hey, 
Scotland, you want to, we could 

538
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,640
both do this a little together. 
You know, let's fight the 

539
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,240
English together. 
Yeah. 

540
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,680
A bit like how the Ironwoods 
would always help the black 

541
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,880
fires, perhaps, but there's not 
a great parallel in A Song of 

542
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,800
Ice and Fire for that rotating 
situation there. 

543
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,600
In 1413, the this Henry the 
Fourth died. 

544
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,200
So Owain actually outlasted 
Henry the 4th, then Henry the 

545
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,480
5th ascended. 
Remember, Henry the Fifth was 

546
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,560
our parallel to Baylor the 
Blessed and Aries the Mad. 

547
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,520
So his situation was what we 
kicked off the Wars of the Roses

548
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,120
episode with. 
Because he was king when the 

549
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:42,000
Wars of the Roses began, he took
a much lighter, softer, peaceful

550
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,880
approach to this river, this 
rebellion, even though it'd been

551
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,680
going on for so long. 
Well, again, this is a Bay Lord 

552
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,440
of the Blessed parallel guy. 
So he's like, yeah, let's let's 

553
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,640
work for a truce. 
Let's try to back this down. 

554
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Rather than one side 
annihilating the other. 

555
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,760
However, Owain died, but we 
don't know when or how. 

556
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,160
Sometime around 14151416 maybe, 
but we don't know how it 

557
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,760
happened. 
No one ever snitched on him that

558
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,040
we know of because there's a 
huge bounty on his head. 

559
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,760
But Wales was just so behind it.
People, like, left their jobs in

560
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,000
England. 
People just, like, picked up and

561
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,640
left the farms and the stores 
and shops to flee to Wales to 

562
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,480
join his rebellion. 
It was a really big deal. 

563
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,400
So there was a lot of loyalty 
there. 

564
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,240
But yeah, we don't know how he 
died. 

565
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,800
And even though there was 
confusion because of that death,

566
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,040
there were no impostors of him. 
That's something we're going to 

567
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,960
see a lot of in this episode. 
And something you'll see a lot 

568
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,000
if you study this topic in real 
life is when there's confusion 

569
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,720
over someone's death that opens 
the door for impostors to become

570
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,960
pretenders. 
Owain's cousins. 

571
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,720
So we just talked about Owain, 
Logock and Owain Glendower and 

572
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,040
Owain's. 
Glendower's cousin, who was 

573
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,680
named Owain, was the father of 
the Tudor dynasty, which of 

574
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,120
course ended up taking England 
after the at the end of the 

575
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,480
wars. 
The Roses Moving on to a Storm 

576
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,640
of Swords. 
Not even though Storm of Swords 

577
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,880
is a big book of climaxes and 
exciting stuff. 

578
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,120
Not much actually changes in 
terms of kings and Queens and 

579
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,160
and rulers, in terms of 
pretenders. 

580
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,760
You've got people dying, but 
that's the end of it. 

581
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,200
Like, Rob dies but his crown 
just goes away. 

582
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,680
No one's trying to claim it 
anymore. 

583
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:18,840
It's not. 
There's no pretender to that 

584
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,320
crown. 
Ruse might try to push for the 

585
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,640
King in the North eventually, 
but that would be not Rob's 

586
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Kingdom, because he's not. 
Ruse isn't going to try to rule 

587
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,000
the Riverlands. 
They wouldn't follow him anyway.

588
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Now Joffrey's killed too, but 
that doesn't change much because

589
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,360
Tommen takes over and Tommen's 
also an impostor, just like his 

590
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,760
brother, under the same 
circumstances. 

591
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,720
Danny still a pretender to the 
Iron Throne. 

592
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,520
That hasn't changed. 
But she also somewhat claims the

593
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,400
throne of Marine. 
I say somewhat because Marine 

594
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,480
hasn't had a king or a queen in 
like 1000 years and she's not 

595
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,160
fully ruling like a queen, but 
kind of is and she intends to 

596
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,800
leave. 
So and everybody knows that. 

597
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,480
So it's it's a little tricky in 
that situation. 

598
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Now. 
Balon's also killed by Euron or 

599
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,400
by a faceless man hired by 
Euron, and Euron becomes a 

600
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,920
pretender because he tries to 
seize the sea stone chair after 

601
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,280
Balon's death, but doesn't 
entirely succeed because of the 

602
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,760
King's moot, and then he just 
succeeds there instead. 

603
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,400
But you could call him a 
pretender during that time. 

604
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,640
And all the people who showed up
for the King's moot in A Feast 

605
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,760
for Crows would be claimants 
pretenders as well. 

606
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,680
Now, of course, let's talk about
A Feast for Crows. 

607
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,720
Not from A Feast for Crows, but 
this quote I'm about to that 

608
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,400
Shay is about to read us from 
the World of Ice and Fire 

609
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,760
because this the World of Ice 
and Fire is written during a 

610
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,640
song of Ice and fire and this 
book, this passage in the book 

611
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,240
happens around the same time 
King Tommen becomes King Tommen 

612
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,320
quote. 
The death of the noble hand John

613
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:52,360
Aaron has unleashed a madness on
the land, a madness of pride and

614
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,840
violence. 
The madness has robbed the realm

615
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,280
of Robert and of his fair son 
and heir Joffrey. 

616
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,360
Pretenders strive to steal the 
Iron Throne and disturbing 

617
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,960
rumors of Dragons reborn trickle
in from the East. 

618
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,520
In such times of trouble, we 
must all pray that good King 

619
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:21,960
Tommen shall see a long reign 
and a just one to usher us again

620
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,640
out of the darkness and into the
light. 

621
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,240
The phrase times of trouble is a
clever 1. 

622
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,920
I don't know if George did it on
purpose, but in Russia there 

623
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,200
were the times of trouble where 
they were troubled by multiple 

624
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,720
false Dimitri's, and we'll talk 
about the false Dimitri's later 

625
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,160
in this episode when we have the
A Song of Ice and Fire parallel 

626
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,440
alongside it. 
This quote just happened now, so

627
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,400
I had to throw that out there. 
So Asha's a pretender now, 

628
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,880
right? 
She didn't accept the results of

629
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,200
the King's mood. 
In her mind, it was the Queen's 

630
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,920
mood. 
So Euron has the driftwood 

631
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:58,840
clown. 
Clown. 

632
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,040
I did it again. 
Driftwood clown. 

633
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,680
There we go. 
We have a very old gag reel 

634
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,080
where as he says, driftwood 
clown that always makes me 

635
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,680
laugh. 
Well, we we unfortunately lost 

636
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,440
that gag reel. 
Remember it got accidentally 

637
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,160
deleted when we had a hard drive
crash. 

638
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,560
It was very sad. 
Those years of years of Joe of 

639
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,040
of oops that were funny. 
But anyway, we can start a whole

640
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,120
new one. 
Driftwood clown. 

641
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,400
So I you can call Euron the 
driftwood clown. 

642
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,520
Why not? 
He's got make up and he's kind 

643
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,120
of silly. 
He's a, he's a more like the 

644
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,480
clown from like it or, you know,
a lot of these slasher films or 

645
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,680
something like that anyway. 
But so is Osher the pretender or

646
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,600
is she going to push her brother
as the pretender? 

647
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,120
Using the good brother example 
from Ironborn history where a 

648
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,440
person was allowed to make their
play for the Iron Isles because 

649
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,640
they were not at the King's 
moon. 

650
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,560
He's like, hey, it was not fair.
He wasn't at the King's moon. 

651
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,200
He should have a chance so. 
But beyond that, Euron is 

652
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,520
actually a pretender too. 
Not to the sea stone chair. 

653
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,160
He's got that on lockdown for 
now. 

654
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,160
To the Iron Throne. 
He wants the Iron Throne. 

655
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,840
He wants all of Westeros. 
Honestly, he wouldn't call 

656
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:03,720
himself that. 
He would. 

657
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,720
In his mind, his vision is much 
grander. 

658
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,639
He doesn't just want to conquer 
Westeros. 

659
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,280
He's kind of wants like the 
whole world. 

660
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,800
I don't know. 
This guy's got delusions of 

661
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,960
grandeur. 
He does lots of drugs, but 

662
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,400
still, we can call him a 
pretender. 

663
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,199
The Iron Throne. 
You just got to say there's more

664
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,239
than that on top of it. 
Turning our attention to a much 

665
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,840
smaller minor example that is 
introduced, I think, no, it's 

666
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,320
introduced before A Feast for 
Crows, but it gets a little more

667
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,800
play in A Feast for Crows 
because we see we have Dornish 

668
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,520
chapters, which is the Vulture 
kings. 

669
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,360
There's various attempts to 
carve out a Kingdom in the Red 

670
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,920
Mountains of Dorn and there's 
been I think 3 or 4 vulture 

671
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,560
kings. 
None of them succeeded because, 

672
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,840
well, the there's no vulture 
Kingdom now, is there? 

673
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,760
Never, never was for more than 
the length of the of these 

674
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,000
rebellions took. 
None of them ever stuck. 

675
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,679
But definitely they count as 
pretenders to the Vulture King 

676
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,560
throne, whatever that means. the
Vulture crown, the Vulture 

677
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,600
crown, you know, we'll call it 
that. 

678
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,080
The Dance of Dragons. 
Stannis still pretending way up 

679
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,520
in the North, hasn't given up, 
still a pretender. 

680
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,560
Aegon joins the chat. 
A new pretender. 

681
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:16,120
Even though the plot for Aegon 
has been around since Aria just 

682
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,400
heard virus and Illyrio talking 
amidst the dragon skulls, he's 

683
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,960
definitely a pretender. 
He he wasn't one until he 

684
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,280
announced his bid, but he 
certainly has now he's landed in

685
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,560
Westeros, he's calling himself 
Aegon, calling himself the son 

686
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,360
of Rhaegar. 
Now here's where it gets tricky.

687
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,240
Because if he's a black fire, 
he's a pretender and an 

688
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,280
imposter. 
An imposter because he's 

689
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,840
claiming to be Targaryen, right?
But he's a pretender either way,

690
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,680
because the Brathians have the 
throne right now, not the 

691
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,600
Targaryens or the Blackfires. 
So he's trying to take the 

692
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:47,680
throne. 
So he's a pretender. 

693
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:52,000
While this is ongoing, while 
these are all plot lines are 

694
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,480
happening elsewhere, Davos 
actually wonders briefly if Lord

695
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,000
Manderly is going to present an 
imposter Stark. 

696
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,720
He's like, does does Manderly 
have a pretender Stark hidden 

697
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,680
that he's going to act like is a
real Stark? 

698
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,800
But of course, it turns out he 
has a line on the actual Rickon 

699
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,360
Stark. 
But it's interesting that Davos 

700
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,840
has this thought, maybe as a way
for George to nod to the fact 

701
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,160
that that is what's happening 
with Winterfell and a fake 

702
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,280
imposter Aria is being used to 
claim Winterfell. 

703
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,680
Between the latter 2 books 
there's a lot of non royal slash

704
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,440
title claimant related 
impostors. 

705
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,480
Not exactly the kind of imposter
we're looking at today. 

706
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,120
Or sort of like they, they 
relate, they overlap their their

707
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,480
cousins of the situation. 
Or you could say maybe they do 

708
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:36,160
count. 
I don't know. 

709
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,640
I'd rather say them than not. 
Mance Ryder again, we bring him 

710
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,400
up and the baby situation with 
them. 

711
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,200
That's real tricky, right? 
Mance's child getting swapped 

712
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,560
with Gilly's child. 
Which one's the baby? 

713
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,320
Which one's an imposter? 
They're both babies. 

714
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,120
Which one's an imposter for the 
throne? 

715
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,560
Which one's a claim? 
Which one's a pretender? 

716
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,280
Are any of them? 
It gets the supernatural 

717
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,320
elements thrown in there with 
Melisandre and King's blood. 

718
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,720
It's all a mess of supernatural 
and competing claims and 

719
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:09,200
imposture. 
It's very tricky, but still we 

720
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,080
we get it. 
Basically, I think we all we all

721
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,560
kind of understand what's going 
on there. 

722
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:18,000
Meanwhile, Jane is Arya with 
Theon helping sell the lie and 

723
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,120
Aegon big part of the whole plot
here. 

724
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,600
Who does count as a pretender? 
Now here's where we have an 

725
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,800
example from George is and his 
likely influence from the 

726
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,560
accursed kings. 
Now we have a resident accursed 

727
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,280
kings expert in Nina Krusling 
here. 

728
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,600
So Louis the 10th, who was 
called Louis the quarrelsome was

729
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,600
poisoned. 
And the new king is a baby. 

730
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,120
There's a wet nurse for this 
newborn king. 

731
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:47,280
And she was chosen in part 
because she just had her own 

732
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,080
baby, right? 
And her baby kind of looks like 

733
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,800
the baby king. 
A lot of babies look similar. 

734
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,440
It's it's easier to swap on baby
for another than it is an adult 

735
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,000
or or even a child. 
But her child is the healthier 

736
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,680
of the two babies. 
So when it comes time for the 

737
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,200
baby king to be presented at 
court in front of all the nobles

738
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,080
and like the coming out party, 
you know how they do these 

739
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,800
things that present the royal 
baby, right? 

740
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,920
They decide to swap the babies, 
not to take the crown or 

741
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,480
anything like that, just to make
the baby look healthier, just to

742
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,360
give everyone more confidence. 
Just show this healthier baby. 

743
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,080
You pretend it's the king. 
It's only temporary. 

744
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,160
Unfortunately, this was the 
opportunity that one of these 

745
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,920
nobles seized upon to kill the 
king. 

746
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,960
So they murder the baby, the 
imposter baby. 

747
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,160
In real life. 
This isn't what happened. 

748
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,760
We don't think. 
We just know. 

749
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,960
We don't know for sure. 
Actually. 

750
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,040
The baby just dies within five 
days, which is, I mean, that 

751
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,880
just happens. 
Like in those days, infants 

752
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,720
dying, it's not uncommon. 
So you can't really say that it 

753
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:45,840
was poison. 
But Maurice Drewan was like, 

754
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,160
hey, let's make it poison. 
Why not? 

755
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,800
That'll be more interesting. 
So the false baby king is 

756
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,960
killed, but they keep it a 
secret because they're like, 

757
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,640
that was an imposter. 
We can't reveal that this is the

758
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,560
real king. 
They'll kill that baby too. 

759
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:05,000
So they hide the baby in a 
convent and many years later the

760
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,040
truth comes out, or at least it 
threatens to. 

761
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,600
That's part of the plot. 
I don't need to spoil all of 

762
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:10,600
Cursed King. 
There's seven books. 

763
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,840
I didn't spoil much there. 
So think of the poor wet nurse 

764
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,880
there in this scenario as a 
parallel to Gilly who was forced

765
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,800
into this, forced to give up her
real baby to take care of a baby

766
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,720
that's not hers, that's actually
a royal baby. 

767
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,160
So it's just, yeah, you can see 
the similarity there, can't you?

768
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,080
Dance of the anarchy? 
Yes, of course. 

769
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:37,640
The anarchy is the famous real 
World War that George famously 

770
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,080
and openly says he was inspired 
to write the Dance of the Dragon

771
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,760
song. 
I'm sure most all of you know 

772
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,480
that by now. 
But there is a lot of reason for

773
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,920
this, a lot of detail and a lot 
to talk about that we have not 

774
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,760
done before, even though we have
touched on these parallels in 

775
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,600
the past more as a glossing over
this. 

776
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,000
We're going to get into it 
pretty big here. 

777
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,880
It's sort of like fiddling while
Rome burns, dancing while 

778
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,280
England or fictional continent 
like shaped a lot like England, 

779
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,240
is plunged into anarchy. 
Yeah, well, remember that the 

780
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:12,480
phrase used during the anarchy 
in England was the time when 

781
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,600
Christ and his Saints slept 
because it was like God had 

782
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,600
turned his face from England, 
things were so bad. 

783
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,720
The two factions were so busy 
trying to win the throne that 

784
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,800
they were not dealing out 
justice, they were not 

785
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,880
protecting the commoners. 
Rebel barons, robber Knights 

786
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,160
were everywhere causing problems
and there was no one to stop 

787
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,680
them. 
So Empress Matilda was heir to 

788
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,360
the throne of England, but like 
Viserys the 1st and Rainier, 

789
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,600
King Henry had a hard time 
getting the nobility to accept 

790
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,520
her as his heir even though she 
was an Empress in her own right 

791
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,120
'cause she was Empress Holy 
Roman Empress, she was married 

792
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,680
to the Holy Roman Empire. 
So she this would have been her 

793
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,800
second crown basically if she 
had won it. 

794
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:57,280
She was usurped by her cousin 
Steven while she was late stage 

795
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,600
pregnant overseas like Rainier 
was, except instead of her 

796
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,240
cousin it was her brother Aegon.
And of course it was the throne 

797
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,960
of Westeros instead and 
Dragonstone instead of France. 

798
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,360
But you can see that's very 
similar, right? 

799
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,280
But the unlike the Dance of the 
Dragons, the anarchy, there 

800
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,920
wasn't four. 
It was four years before any 

801
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,840
fighting broke out. 
Steven usurped, but it took no 

802
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,640
one started fighting right away.
They're like, hey, don't do 

803
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,040
that. 
But it took a while to get the 

804
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,200
armies until like they argued 
about it. 

805
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,000
There were some legal 
challenges, I suppose. 

806
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,680
And so it took a while for 
fighting to begin the Dance of 

807
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,360
the Dragons, only less than less
than three years. 

808
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,440
So that's one major difference 
here. 

809
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,080
And that's something I want to 
say as an aside. 

810
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,400
Sometimes we get really deep 
into the weeds with these 

811
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,680
comparisons and it might start 
to seem like, wow, George 

812
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,800
borrowed a lot from these. 
It's not really the case. 

813
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,320
Yes, he did borrow a good bit, 
but there's so much that isn't 

814
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,240
the same. 
We're just not focused on that 

815
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:49,360
because there's no parallel to 
it. 

816
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,320
There's so much that George 
created on his own and so much 

817
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,040
that he took, borrowed and just 
changed a little bit. 

818
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,000
So yeah, don't don't ever let 
yourself think that. 

819
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,240
Don't let you don't think that 
because we're taking a narrow 

820
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,480
slice that this is how it all 
is. 

821
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,840
Anyway. 
Matilda, like Rainiera, like 

822
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,840
Aegon the Uncrowned became a 
pretender to the throne she had 

823
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,840
been lawful heir to. 
Right? 

824
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,840
So before the set up, kind of 
similar. 

825
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,240
You are familiar with the set up
to the Dance for the most part, 

826
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,560
Great Council, 28 years of back 
and forth between the families. 

827
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,400
We don't have to rehash all that
rival factions with strong 

828
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,560
claims and huge amounts of 
military power. 

829
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,440
Now Westeros way bigger than 
England, regardless of the shape

830
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,480
being similar, it's way bigger. 
So that's a factor you have to 

831
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,360
keep in mind too. 
And also during that this before

832
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,560
era, you could say Damon was a 
pretender to the Kingdom of the 

833
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,400
step stones, which he succeeded 
in. 

834
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,360
And then he just gave it up. 
He's like, I'm bored of this. 

835
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,120
But once he created it, it's one
of those things that once you 

836
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,240
make a Kingdom, other people are
like, that's a Kingdom. 

837
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,760
I can take that. 
If it's just a loose collection 

838
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,120
of regions, no one thinks of it 
that way until someone takes it 

839
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,840
and unites it into one. 
Even if it's briefly like it was

840
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,000
for Damon, now all of a sudden 
the whole world sees it as that 

841
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,520
region. 
It's, it's, it's a Kingdom now. 

842
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,160
It's no longer just the step 
stones. 

843
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,120
So Damon was king of the Narrow 
Sea and five different men 

844
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,000
claimed that crown after he gave
it up. 

845
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,680
Five different people in a 
fairly short period of time 

846
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,400
what, 15 ish years? 
20 ish years? 

847
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,560
And the fifth of those was slain
by none other than Ricalio 

848
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,840
Rendoon, who of course went on 
to claim the Kingdom of the 

849
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,400
Narrow Sea for himself. 
He lost it but wasn't killed in 

850
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,040
the attempt. 
So part of how they motivated 

851
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,680
Aegon, as in Aegon the Second 
was convincing him he'd be 

852
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,040
executed or murdered if he 
didn't usurp the throne. 

853
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,680
They were like, he didn't want 
to do it. 

854
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,160
But then they're like, man, 
they're going to kill you, 

855
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,240
though. 
And he's like, oh, in that case,

856
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:48,320
all right, let's go. 
There isn't really a comparison 

857
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,720
from the anarchy here. 
Historians debate with the 

858
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:53,560
motivations of Stephen and his 
inner circle was but it wasn't 

859
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,360
fear of being executed. 
Stephen was married to a 

860
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,960
daughter of William the 
Conqueror. 

861
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,840
Confusingly enough, her name was
also Matilda. 

862
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,080
But so he had a powerful claim 
and William the Conqueror, I 

863
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:06,280
mean, that's the guy that 
conquered England. 

864
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,760
That's a really important get a 
little important bloodline to 

865
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,720
have. 
But Stephen was. 

866
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:13,240
Yeah, not in danger of being 
executed. 

867
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:14,200
It would have been highly 
unusual. 

868
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,800
Stephen was captured at one 
point and he was a. 

869
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,240
They let him go like there was a
ransom they just agreed to. 

870
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,360
What? 
Isn't that weird? 

871
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,920
That would never happen during 
the dance right Now if one side 

872
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,400
had gotten their hand on the 
other claimant executed. 

873
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:27,800
I mean, that is what happened, 
Right. 

874
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,040
But here, this was an era in 
which it's hard to say war was 

875
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,040
more civilized. 
But I mean, that's kind of like,

876
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,120
it's such a weird thing to call 
civilize at all. 

877
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,280
But it was more civilized. 
There was less killing of 

878
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:39,600
people. 
It's still terrible. 

879
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,560
There's lots of murder and death
and devastation. 

880
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,320
But yeah, it's good to see 
history creeping a little bit 

881
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,160
towards not killing people. 
Of course, sometimes leaving 

882
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,360
people alive causes bigger 
problems when you leave someone 

883
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:56,400
alive and they just escape and 
launch a fresh claim like like 

884
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,520
Bitter Steel did. 
Escaping on his way to the wall,

885
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,440
right? 
Yeah, maybe if they had executed

886
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,120
him. 
That wouldn't happen during the 

887
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,960
Anarchy and the Dance of the 
Dragons. 

888
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,400
So Aegon usurped the throne 
right away and Rainier 

889
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,760
immediately declared her intent 
to take it back. 

890
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,440
So technically she's the 
pretender. 

891
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,640
But then she took it back so he 
became the pretender. 

892
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,640
The counter argument would be 
that she never actually held it 

893
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,080
in a time of peace, but neither 
did he. 

894
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,720
The war started the second he 
usurped it. 

895
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,720
He did it, and he only had it 
briefly at the end before 

896
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:28,720
getting poisoned himself. 
Was that really a time of peace?

897
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,840
According to Westeros history, 
the way it was written, yes. 

898
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,640
Aegon the Second counts Rainier 
a dozen, which is always the 

899
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,200
kind of thing where we're like, 
you know, I think she should 

900
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,480
have counted. 
But history is written by the 

901
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,760
winners. 
Maybe someday they'll fix that. 

902
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,520
They'll edit history and change 
it. 

903
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,200
You think, you think that's 
weird? 

904
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,520
You think that someone changing 
history 150 years, 200 years 

905
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:50,600
later? 
Because I don't know when this 

906
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,880
would happen maybe it happens 50
years after the end of the 

907
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,960
books. 
Real world is full of such 

908
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,720
examples. 
Let me tell you, rewriting 

909
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:58,920
history can happen hundreds of 
years later where someone that's

910
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,920
a pretender can be called a 
king. 

911
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,720
Someone that's a a usurper can 
be called, you know, the lawful 

912
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:05,280
person. 
It's really just about 

913
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,720
interpretations of the law. 
Different generations, different

914
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,240
people will interpret these 
laws, especially when they're 

915
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,600
hundreds of years old. 
The interpretations are harder 

916
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,720
to, to hold true or to stick to 
the original vibe of the 

917
00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:20,640
original of, of the first 
version of that. 

918
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,400
Because you don't know what they
were thinking 200 years ago. 

919
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:26,520
You only know the, the, the 
details like, well, who was son 

920
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,040
of who and who was queen of 
this? 

921
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:32,080
And they don't have all the, the
detail of that era. 

922
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,960
Oh, nor do they have the values 
of that era. 

923
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,200
The culture, what they, what 
they care about changes over 

924
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,240
time. 
So in any case, both Aegon and 

925
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,680
Rainier called each other 
pretender and the sources back 

926
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,040
and forth. 
It was part of the the war of 

927
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,520
words that happens during any 
war of sorts. 

928
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,840
And it's convenient that you can
just take the S off of swords 

929
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,160
and you've got war of words. 
Yeah. 

930
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,360
The debate might include the 
fact that while Rainier lost the

931
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,040
throne, she didn't lose it to 
the Greens. 

932
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,560
She just lost it. 
Right. 

933
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,600
That's the moon of three kings, 
right. 

934
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:03,720
The Greens didn't take it from 
her. 

935
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:06,440
She just couldn't hold it and 
had to flee and never got it 

936
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,520
back. 
And the Greens reclaimed it, but

937
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,280
they also didn't keep it very 
long. 

938
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,280
So they're also paralleled by 
Empress Matilda. 

939
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,800
Empress Matilda actually did 
seize London and she was going 

940
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,000
to have a coronation, but the 
people were like riots. 

941
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,200
She had to leave. 
She had the unrest in London was

942
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,560
so severe she left, just like 
Rainiera. 

943
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,640
Now the difference, of course, 
there wasn't like a moon of 

944
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,160
three kings in London. 
There wasn't like rioting in the

945
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,480
streets and multiple false 
claimants just popping up. 

946
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,280
That's something George came up 
with and it was very fun. 

947
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,120
That's going to be a big part of
the second-half. 

948
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,200
Now the anarchy was knotted at 
by the Moon of Three Kings in 

949
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:48,400
King's Landing Because it is an 
anarchy in King's Landing and we

950
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,240
get imposters and pretenders in 
in that event. 

951
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:59,600
Now again as I said before, the 
anarchy was was characterized by

952
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,120
a lack of of justice and law 
being done because the two 

953
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,360
factions were so busy ripping 
each other apart. 

954
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,760
This wasn't as big a deal in 
Westeros because the war was 

955
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,040
short. 
Yes, there were people that took

956
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,040
advantage of the opening, 
especially Dalton Greyjoy, the 

957
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,280
Red Kraken. 
He took advantage of it more so 

958
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,600
than anyone else. 
He seized territory on the West 

959
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,640
and dared anyone to do anything 
about it. 

960
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,280
They couldn't because they were 
too busy fighting each other. 

961
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,320
They couldn't send a deal with 
him while they were fighting for

962
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,640
the throne in the Under the 
Anarchy. 

963
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,040
Remember, it lasted way longer, 
15 years. 

964
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,840
So what you get is a scenario 
where the first couple of years,

965
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,760
some of these robber Knights and
unlawful barons, tyrannical 

966
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,960
Lords, they start testing the 
waters. 

967
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,080
They're like, I can get away 
with this, I can get away with 

968
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,040
this, I can get away with this. 
Little time goes by, they got 

969
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,080
away with it. 
A year goes by, they go a little

970
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,760
bolder, get away with more, get 
away with more, still get away 

971
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,400
with it. 
No justice, no pushback. 

972
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,440
After years and years of this, 
they're just going to be 

973
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,680
extremely bold and just 
extremely tyrannical and just 

974
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,800
extremely grasping and corrupt 
and greedy because 15 years of 

975
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,520
no pushback on on this 
lawlessness. 

976
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,520
They're just going to get more 
bold and more brutal and people 

977
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:15,720
are just going to get more 
scared. 

978
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,480
This is a microcosm of the moon 
of Three Kings. 

979
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,440
The realm at large wasn't 
overwhelmingly lawless, like I 

980
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,680
said, because the war just 
didn't drag on that long, but 

981
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,360
King's Landing was. 
King's Landing did fall into 

982
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,120
that state and that's what we 
will talk about when we come 

983
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,400
back. 
Hey folks, we've got something 

984
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,440
pretty exciting over on our 
Patreon page. 

985
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:42,360
We have so many episodes these 
days that occasionally we think 

986
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,880
about the fact that it's kind of
hard to get to find the episode 

987
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,680
you want. 
Sometimes we can tell you, hey, 

988
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,080
we've got this episode, we've 
got this episode. 

989
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,960
Then you're like, where is that?
I got to scroll through this 12 

990
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,120
years of RSS feed to find an 
episode. 

991
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,840
Sometimes it's tricky, so and 
sometimes you don't know what 

992
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,360
you're looking for. 
So Ashea built an episode 

993
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,240
database searcher that allows 
you to find episodes using a 

994
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:10,280
number of different criteria. 
It's really good and we'll let 

995
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,240
her take over here. 
Yeah, I've got it on screen as 

996
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:17,560
well, if you're seeing visually.
But yeah, basically it's a feed 

997
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,320
that intakes our Spotify and 
YouTube feed. 

998
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,880
So it has the podcast and video 
versions. 

999
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:30,600
It has all of our shorts. 
I have it set to tag based on 

1000
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,840
like Doom of Valyria and you 
click and it takes you to Doom 

1001
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,760
of Valyria related things. 
Or like you click on guest Lady 

1002
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,520
Gwynn and it'll take you to the 
episodes that Lady Gwynn has 

1003
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,840
tagged in and you can type and 
search things you know, Gwynn 

1004
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:49,280
and it'll come up like that. 
You can see a whole list of all 

1005
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,280
of the tags of which they're 
honestly a a really crazy 

1006
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,640
amount. 
I just feel like we have it like

1007
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,400
cataloged here. 
We have 511 episodes. 

1008
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,640
It's not actually our full 
catalog because this doesn't 

1009
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:08,320
include paid private episodes, 
ones that we made on listed 

1010
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,120
because they're quite old. 
So it is not comprehensive. 

1011
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,160
We actually have more than this.
But I think this should help any

1012
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,440
patron member, you know, use our
catalog a little bit better, a 

1013
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,760
little more efficiently. 
It can be really hard to find 

1014
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,640
episodes, so I hope you like it.
And the problem is only going to

1015
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,200
get bigger over time. 
As we just described, the 

1016
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,080
anarchy got worse and worse. 
When we keep adding episodes, 

1017
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,960
it's going to get harder and 
harder to search our back 

1018
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,240
catalog unless you use a tool 
like this or some other search 

1019
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:37,760
features. 
So yeah, sign up 

1020
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:43,440
patreon.com/history of Westeros 
and enjoy that benefit and lots 

1021
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,160
of others like bonus episodes, 
titles and participation in 

1022
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:48,560
episode selection like Topics 
mode. 

1023
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,400
Something to keep in mind with 
the concept of royal or noble 

1024
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,120
impostors conceptually is that 
it isn't a lot of crimes where 

1025
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,560
even if the culprits escape 
justice, the crime is eventually

1026
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,880
discovered. 
For example if someone were to 

1027
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,800
steal a bunch of money from a 
company, it might not be noticed

1028
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,760
right away but eventually like 
an accounting is going to be 

1029
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,880
done and be like hey there's $40
million missing. 

1030
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,520
But not all crimes get solved. 
Not all crimes even are ever 

1031
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,080
identified as crimes. 
What I mean by that is every 

1032
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,320
example of an imposter we have 
from real world history. 

1033
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,800
Here is 1 where the imposter was
discovered and failed, because 

1034
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,960
if they didn't, we wouldn't 
know. 

1035
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:29,280
If they succeeded, there would 
be no historical record of it. 

1036
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:32,440
They wouldn't be listed as an if
they were never discovered to be

1037
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,000
an imposter, how would we know? 
So that's kind of like, oh, 

1038
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:36,880
really? 
Yeah, you're right. 

1039
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,280
There might have been some kings
and Queens or emperors or Lords 

1040
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,440
and ladies that faked it and got
away with it. 

1041
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,440
Now in A Song of Ice and Fire, 
it's a little different because 

1042
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,400
we have inside information that 
humans wouldn't have. 

1043
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,280
We're inside people's heads. 
We have the equivalent of 

1044
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:51,800
narrator. 
It's not really a narrator, but 

1045
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,280
we have the equivalent of a 
narrator from this perspective 

1046
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,000
because we get direct thoughts 
that we wouldn't always have, 

1047
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,080
but not always. 
Like we don't always know 

1048
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,320
because we're not in the POV, we
don't have everyone as APOV, 

1049
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,280
we're not in everyone's heads. 
So yeah, Now in in real life, 

1050
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,680
some of these imposters are very
well documented, though the 

1051
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,160
farther back we go, generally 
speaking, that's less true. 

1052
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:15,760
I mean, that's that's standard, 
right? 

1053
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,280
The farther you back you go back
in history, the less there's 

1054
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:20,600
written about it for the most 
part. 

1055
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,760
Do you recall the example of 
Margaret of Norway from our 

1056
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,680
Black dinner episode? 
She was the seven-year old who 

1057
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,280
was queen of Norway who was 
going to marry the King of 

1058
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,160
Scotland and she died on the 
way. 

1059
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,880
But we didn't tell you at that 
time was there was a fake 

1060
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,240
Margaret who came up an imposter
Margaret who's like, I'm that 

1061
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:42,320
Margaret and I want not just the
throne of Norway, but I want the

1062
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,760
throne of Scotland too, even 
though Margaret never actually 

1063
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,720
married into it and it wouldn't 
have been hers because she 

1064
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:48,960
married into it. 
Like you don't get the that's 

1065
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,640
not how it works. 
Also, she was 30 years older 

1066
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,040
than the actual Margaret would 
have been. 

1067
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,400
This wasn't the best attempt 
ever at an imposter. 

1068
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,760
And some imposters have, you 
know, happy endings like Game 

1069
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,640
and pale hair and his real world
parallel. 

1070
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,600
Well, Game Impaler didn't really
have that happy of an ending 

1071
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,320
since he died of poison, but he 
could have had a happy ending. 

1072
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,160
This Margaret very unhappy 
ending burned at the stake. 

1073
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,200
The famous Darius the Great, as 
in the third king of Persia, 

1074
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:25,840
became king after revealing that
the current king Bardea or 

1075
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,840
Bardea, I don't have to say it 
was an imposter. 

1076
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,120
He told us like everybody. 
That's not Bardea, it's an 

1077
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,560
imposter. 
It's the mage. 

1078
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,000
Galmata Mage. 
Yeah, the magi. 

1079
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,160
Like an astrologer. 
But historians aren't sure about

1080
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,600
this. 
They think this might have been 

1081
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,160
a trumped up claim. 
He might have just told everyone

1082
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,960
that Bardea was an imposter and 
it might have been completely 

1083
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,760
made-up. 
He might have been making up an 

1084
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,720
imposter story to kill his 
cousin or brother, older 

1085
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,640
brother, I forget which. 
He was definitely related to 

1086
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,440
Bardea. 
So that's a way that the 

1087
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,280
imposter imposter thing can 
work. 

1088
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,880
The other way. 
You can take a real person, call

1089
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,080
them an imposter. 
If you can get enough support, 

1090
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,360
people will believe it. 
And there you go. 

1091
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,080
Now, Darius. 
So I guess in the effort to do 

1092
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,600
this, he was a pretender. 
And then he succeeded and that, 

1093
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,040
and then he's then he's the 
great king. 

1094
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:21,440
All right, let's get into the 
moon of the three kings and the 

1095
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,840
2 Princess in the tower. 
So this is where we not only 

1096
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,440
include an element from the 
Anarchy, but also from the ends 

1097
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,120
of the Wars of the Roses where 
the famous 2 Princess in the 

1098
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,960
tower, Edward and Richard, the 
nephews of Richard the Third who

1099
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,640
usurped them and took their 
throne and probably had them 

1100
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,440
killed. 
Here is a quote to kick us off 

1101
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,640
about the moon of Three Kings. 
Madness gripped the city after 

1102
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,400
Rainera fled, and it showed 
itself in many ways. 

1103
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:56,600
Strangest of all was the rise of
two Pretender Kings who reigned 

1104
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,400
during the time remembered as 
the Moon of the Three Kings. 

1105
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,160
Two pretender kings that it says
during the Moon of Three Kings 

1106
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,640
because the shepherd was the 
3rd, but he wasn't trying to be 

1107
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,600
a king. 
He was just a leader that had a 

1108
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,120
lot of followers like these 
other two, Gaman and Tristane 

1109
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,960
Truefire. 
So yes, the moon of Three Kings 

1110
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,120
has the parallels with the 2 
Princess of the tower. 2 kings, 

1111
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,000
2 Princess. 
Yeah. 

1112
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:24,520
All right, so to stoke your 
memory again, these were the 

1113
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:29,240
sons of Robert, who we called 
Robert Edward, actually King 

1114
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,880
Edward the 4th, we called him 
Robert Edward because he's so 

1115
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,320
much in common with Robert 
Baratheon. 

1116
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,080
Now, Richard was the brother of 
Edward, the younger brother of 

1117
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:43,200
Edward the 4th and Edward the 
4th had sons named Edward and 

1118
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,240
Richard. 
Richard the third, of course, 

1119
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,720
was a Stannis Eddard parallel, 
right? 

1120
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,120
Now recall what we said earlier 
about Daron. 

1121
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,720
We're going to talk about Daron 
the Daring later in this episode

1122
00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:57,480
because the uncertainty of his 
death allowed false claimants to

1123
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,720
appear. 
And as remember we said that 

1124
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:03,600
earlier, uncertainty is the 
power source here. 

1125
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,360
If you have uncertainty, 
impostors can flow in from that.

1126
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,760
They're like, oh, that summons 
the impostors whenever there's 

1127
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:14,760
uncertainty about someone dying,
That's that's their their cue to

1128
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,400
get started. 
The uncertainty is the point. 

1129
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,640
And I don't just mean the 
uncertainty of wait, there's too

1130
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,840
many Richards and Edwards here, 
but that might be enough, right 

1131
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,400
to say, hey, I'm King Edward. 
Story checks out. 

1132
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:30,480
I'm King Henry. 
Yep. 

1133
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:31,760
Story also check. 
I'm King Richard. 

1134
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,800
Yep, story checks out. 
Anyway, the fact that everyone 

1135
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,040
but the conspirators were in the
dark about what happened to 

1136
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,680
these two Princess with strong 
claims. 

1137
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,400
Nobody knows what happened to 
them, right? 

1138
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:44,720
Everybody assumes they were 
killed. 

1139
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,880
But we can say that now. 
Hundreds of years. 

1140
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,480
At the time, it wasn't quite so 
certain. 

1141
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:50,680
It was like, did he kill them? 
Are they? 

1142
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,760
Did he have them hidden? 
You know, maybe he's got them 

1143
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,240
stashed somewhere. 
It wasn't sure until a lot of 

1144
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,320
time had passed and it was like,
OK, well, they're definitely 

1145
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,840
dead now. 
It's been 30 years, but again, 

1146
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,480
in the current moment. 
So that opened the door for 

1147
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,600
imposters. 
And these imposters have a lot 

1148
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,560
to do and a lot of inspiration 
for Tristane True Fire, Perkin 

1149
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,400
the Flea and Game and pale hair.
Our powerful song of ice and 

1150
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,520
fire parallels. 
Let's get to it first. 

1151
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,480
Tristane true Fire and Perkin 
the Flea. 

1152
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,920
Let's start this section with an
introductory quote about the 

1153
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,560
King's quote. 
The first was Tristane True 

1154
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:34,120
Fire, a Squire to a disreputable
hedge knight named Sir Perkin 

1155
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:39,000
the Flea, who Sir Perkin 
declared was the natural son of 

1156
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,840
Viserys the First. 
After the storming of the Dragon

1157
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,040
Pit and Rainier's Flight, the 
Shepherd and his mob ruled much 

1158
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:51,280
of the city, but SER Perkin 
installed Tristane in the 

1159
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,960
abandoned Red Keep and began to 
issue edicts. 

1160
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,160
Tristane himself was a relative 
nobody. 

1161
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,040
He was a Squire to Sir Perkin 
the Flea, and Sir Perkin the 

1162
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,840
Flea was a hedge knight. 
But these were particularly 

1163
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:09,040
ambitious people, both of them. 
I assume Tristane had silvery 

1164
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,360
hair, maybe blonde to share 
something that could maybe 

1165
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,320
identify him as a little bit 
Targaryen. 

1166
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,440
It would have helped sell the 
lie, but we don't have a 

1167
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,000
description on them, so I can't 
be sure of that. 

1168
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,720
It just seems to it would it 
would fit. 

1169
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:20,960
They had a brief but notable 
run. 

1170
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,560
As it said in the quote, they 
actually took the Red Keep. 

1171
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,280
They got the they convinced the 
the guards inside to open the 

1172
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,840
door that they would be treated 
safely and they weren't. 

1173
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,000
They killed them all. 
And they even got because of 

1174
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:34,800
that, probably the small council
were like, yeah, we'll do 

1175
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,600
whatever you want. 
Laurie Strong worked with them 

1176
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,640
or while worked with them. 
They're like Corliss, even 

1177
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,280
Corliss worked with them. 
They're like, yeah, we don't 

1178
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,600
want to be killed. 
So we're the small, we're your 

1179
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,600
small council now. 
He's like, well, this. 

1180
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,960
And they were all for it because
it helped legitimize them. 

1181
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,440
Like, well, we got an actual 
group of nobles as our small 

1182
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,520
council, famous people that 
might actually help make this 

1183
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,080
work. 
So they started issuing edicts 

1184
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,840
and they took four of the seven 
city gates, some of it by 

1185
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:03,960
subterfuge, some of it just by 
offering deals to them. 

1186
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,720
And some of the captains were 
killed, some of the loyalists 

1187
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,080
were killed, But and he even 
whipped Mazaria through the 

1188
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,640
streets and she did not survive 
that. 

1189
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,240
So some of this was going back 
and forth. 

1190
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:20,040
Some of the edicts were against 
the tyranny that was happening 

1191
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,000
during the war as both sides 
sort of pushed a little harder 

1192
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,160
on the populace to get extra 
money and, and soldiers and 

1193
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,960
stuff to, to fight this war. 
And before the war as well, 

1194
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,080
there were issues in King's 
Landing. 

1195
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,320
So there's a lot of unrest, 
unhappiness with some of the 

1196
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,640
leadership from before. 
And so they were issuing edicts 

1197
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,920
that repealed some of these 
unpopular laws. 

1198
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,360
There was a a lot of this there 
was Hey, you can they changed 

1199
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,040
the laws for the Kingswood, like
you can hunt small animals there

1200
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,360
now you can do this and that 
different things that were 

1201
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,440
allowing people to to get food 
and and survive. 

1202
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,280
So common appeal to the common 
born, which makes sense because 

1203
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,320
that's who was going to fill 
their armies had they managed to

1204
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,440
get so far, which they didn't. 
But you know, it was a it was a 

1205
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,240
reasonable attempt. 
So Tristane was eventually 

1206
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,680
betrayed by Perkin in exchange 
for a pardon, right. 

1207
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:14,640
Tristane very foolishly allowed 
all these nobles to negotiate 

1208
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,240
out of his presence and they 
negotiated his end and pardons 

1209
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,680
for everyone else. 
So Perkin the fleet was 

1210
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:25,080
pardoned, but then he 
participated in the poisoning of

1211
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,320
Aegon the Second, which earned 
him an execution from Craig and 

1212
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:32,400
Stark, but he took the black. 
However, before he took the 

1213
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,200
black, he killed Sir Alfred 
Broome by pushing him off the 

1214
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,680
drawbridge onto the spikes. 
Not such a bad guy, Sir Perkin, 

1215
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:39,120
I think. 
Yeah. 

1216
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,960
Killing Sir Alfred Broome was a 
feather in his calf there. 

1217
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:44,720
Sorry thing that hey, he killed 
bro, he killed Alfred. 

1218
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,280
Sorry, he's a little 
troublesome. 

1219
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,720
Anyways, so you know. 
Yeah, yeah, Book Missouri is not

1220
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:52,800
so not such a good person. 
So we'll return to their peril 

1221
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,120
in a moment because we got to 
set up both parallels because 

1222
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,360
these things happen together. 
So also the parallel for this 

1223
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,440
next character came first in 
real life, but second here in 

1224
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:04,960
Westeros history. 
It's a little confusing, but 

1225
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:06,200
we'll straighten it out here in 
a second. 

1226
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:08,200
Game. 
And pale hair. 

1227
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,600
A quote about him. 
This is who I support. 

1228
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,160
Well, this is the figurehead I 
support. 

1229
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:20,040
The other king was curiouser 
still, a child who became known 

1230
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,240
as Game and pale Hair. 
The son of a whore. 

1231
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:28,160
This 4 year old boy was claimed 
to be a bastard of Aegon the 

1232
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:32,880
Second, which was not improbable
given the King's body ways in 

1233
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,080
his youth. 
From his seat in the House of 

1234
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:40,480
Kisses atop Visenya's Hill, he 
gathered followers by the 

1235
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,880
thousands and issued a series of
edicts. 

1236
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,440
His mother later was hanged, 
having confessed he was the son 

1237
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:54,480
of a silver haired oarsman from 
Lease, but gay man was spared 

1238
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,960
and taken into the King's 
household. 

1239
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:02,080
In time, he befriended Aegon the
Third, becoming his constant 

1240
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,840
companion and food taster for 
some years before dying of 

1241
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:11,240
poison that might have been 
intended for the king himself. 

1242
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,640
So these are two kids who looked
similar to each other. 

1243
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,040
They were both pawns of adults 
who took advantage of their 

1244
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,040
claims. 
So you got to see on paper why 

1245
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,640
they would become friends. 
They have a lot in common in 

1246
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,520
their early upbringing and, you 
know, looking similar. 

1247
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,040
But a deeper look into this 
mystery shows that it probably 

1248
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,240
wasn't Aegon the Third who was 
the target of that poisoning. 

1249
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,360
It was a, a dessert that was 
poison and he did not eat 

1250
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:34,800
desserts. 
So look, this doesn't make any 

1251
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,920
sense, right? 
Unless they just had no idea 

1252
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,120
what they were doing. 
It makes more sense that they 

1253
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,960
were trying to poison the his 
wife or his betrothed because 

1254
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,240
Unwin Peak wanted it to be his 
daughter who was his betrothed. 

1255
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,960
He was very upset. 
Anyway, that doesn't have a 

1256
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,160
whole lot to do with the 
pretending and stuff. 

1257
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,320
It's just, you know, for 
completion's sake. 

1258
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,360
So Gaiman ceased to be a 
pretender the moment the fraud 

1259
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,000
was revealed. 
His his mother confessed, as it 

1260
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,480
says, and then she was hanged. 
But that's why he was allowed to

1261
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,000
live. 
He's like, yeah, I'm not my mom 

1262
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,960
confessed. 
I'm just a kid. 

1263
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:06,720
I didn't do this. 
Like, I don't, I don't have any 

1264
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,080
agency here. 
And yeah, it doesn't look good 

1265
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:12,240
to execute a child, right, 
especially one who isn't a 

1266
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,080
threat. 
Like this kid is outed as a 

1267
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,240
fraud. 
Everybody knows it. 

1268
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,880
He's not a danger anymore. 
He's like, ah, gaming. 

1269
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,040
Pale hair rises again. 
Like how? 

1270
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:22,840
How could he do that? 
Everybody knows. 

1271
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,880
So he's not important 
politically, which is why he 

1272
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,280
could be a food Taser. 
He was like, well, yeah, he's 

1273
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,280
also. 
We don't care what happens to 

1274
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,000
him. 
It was very sad when he died 

1275
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,960
because Egan the third lost one 
of his only friends. 

1276
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,840
But that's also kind of not 
related to our topic here. 

1277
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,120
Earlier, we teased a strong 
historical parallel here, and 

1278
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,160
indeed, let's talk about it. 
Lambert Symnal. 

1279
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,080
What a name. 
Lambert was discovered in a way 

1280
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,120
that child actors are often 
discovered, and I mean, 

1281
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,480
exploited. 
Yes. 

1282
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,080
The actor comparison is extra on
point here because a priest 

1283
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,200
named Richard Simon wanted to be
a kingmaker. 

1284
01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,640
He's like, you know what? 
I'm going to be a kingmaker, A 

1285
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,640
Yorkist kingmaker. 
Recall your factions, York, 

1286
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,160
Lancaster, Remember Stark, York,
Lancaster, Lannister, and then 

1287
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:07,360
Tudor. 
That came out of it all. 

1288
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,720
Simon taught this common born 
Lambert who wasn't even named 

1289
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,760
Lambert. 
He was named John probably. 

1290
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,440
So think about this. 
He was actually John. 

1291
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:18,120
They called him Lambert and they
made him into King Richard and 

1292
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,000
then they made him into someone.
This kid had a lot of identity. 

1293
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,320
He's like Arya. 
So many identities on a kid who 

1294
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,640
wasn't even like 10 years old. 
Anyway he he taught him how to 

1295
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:26,880
act. 
This is a little bit of Aegon 

1296
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,320
the sixth Young Griff vibes. 
They educated him and taught him

1297
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:34,200
how to act royal and courtly and
he did look like the sons of 

1298
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,200
Edward the 4th. 
He's the seed is strong type 

1299
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,000
business here. 
Some people actually think he 

1300
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,280
might have been a lost 
descendant but probably not. 

1301
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,160
Anyway if you recall our Wars of
the Roses episode, this was the 

1302
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,600
younger the 2 Princess that they
were trying to impersonate here.

1303
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,560
He also declared, if you recall,
Richard the Third not only 

1304
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,960
killed his nephews, the two 
Princess of the Tower, he also 

1305
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,920
moved to make them illegitimate.
So it was like a double whammy 

1306
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,960
to remove their claim and remove
their lives. 

1307
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,680
So it's interesting that this 
Lambert signal under the 

1308
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:10,920
auspices of priest Richard 
Simon, the kingmaker, had him 

1309
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,600
impersonate a king that was 
declared illegitimate. 

1310
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,840
So you're in a pretender king 
that was named illegitimate. 

1311
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,840
He had to overcome two of these 
obstacles, which he did not. 

1312
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:25,480
So presumably the thought was if
we win this legal problem, this 

1313
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,680
illegitimacy can be solved, It's
a legal issue. 

1314
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,720
We can smooth that over. 
We can get the courts to solve 

1315
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,400
that for us. 
Which is probably true. 

1316
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:34,720
It's a good parallel to Joffrey,
right? 

1317
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,960
If Joffrey had lost the throne, 
if they had lost and tried to 

1318
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,000
get back, you'd have imposter 
pretenders. 

1319
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,960
They would also have to face 
claims of being bastards, of 

1320
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,840
being illegitimate, just like 
Lambert might have had to as 

1321
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,480
impersonating Prince Richard, 
who was declared illegitimate by

1322
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,240
his uncle Richard. 
So after all this planning to 

1323
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,640
make Lambert Seminole an 
imposter, they crowned him as 

1324
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,760
King Richard. 
They changed their mind. 

1325
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,680
They're like, wait, hang on a 
SEC, Richard Simon here's a 

1326
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,880
rumor along with his fellow 
conspirators, they hear a rumor 

1327
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:14,400
that the son of George, who was 
the younger brother of King 

1328
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,960
Edward and King Richard, he had 
a son who was the Earl of 

1329
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,880
Warwick. 
He supposedly died in captivity 

1330
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,760
at the Tower of London, just 
like the Princess in the Tower. 

1331
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,400
So Richard Simon instead changed
this like change the plan. 

1332
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:33,200
We're not going to make our fake
Richard or our fake boy here 

1333
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:34,440
into Richard. 
We're going to make him into the

1334
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,600
Earl of Warwick. 
They changed which imposter he 

1335
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:42,200
was after crowning him. 
This is crazy, right? 

1336
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,280
And it gets even crazier because
it was a false rumor. 

1337
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:50,160
The boy didn't die in captivity,
he was still alive. 

1338
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,880
So Lambert Seminole impersonated
a living trout instead of a dead

1339
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,480
one with the goal of 
overthrowing Henry the 7th at 

1340
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,160
the time. 
This is keep track of all these 

1341
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,040
Henry's. 
So what did they do? 

1342
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,680
Henry the 7th is like, I've got 
the real Richard here or the 

1343
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,720
real Earl of Warwick here. 
I'm going to parade him through 

1344
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,680
the streets. 
By the way, the real Earl of 

1345
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,440
Warwick's name was Edward. 
Yeah, of course. 

1346
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,240
So they call him Warwick because
his name is Edward, and that's 

1347
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,720
confusing. 
So they actually did crown him 

1348
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:23,319
as Edward the 6th, but he wasn't
actually a sitting king. 

1349
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,439
So they paraded the real boy 
through the streets. 

1350
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:27,960
Like, look, he's not dead, He's 
right here. 

1351
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,880
They're making stuff up. 
But think about what year this 

1352
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,000
is. 
News did not spread quick 

1353
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:35,680
enough. 
The army, the Yorkist army was 

1354
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:37,840
already on the way when this 
parading happens. 

1355
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,439
And they're like, news is not 
going to spread fast enough for 

1356
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:46,560
the imposter to be outed. 
And the imposter wasn't crucial.

1357
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,399
The orchists were just looking 
for an excuse to invade again 

1358
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:52,200
and try their hand at 
overthrowing the Lancasters or 

1359
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,760
the tutors. 
So they're like, this is just a 

1360
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:56,240
bonus. 
They're like, oh, we got a false

1361
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,399
claimant Imposter 2. 
Let's do that. 

1362
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:02,279
Let's name him Edward the 6th, 
crown him Edward the 6th and go 

1363
01:09:02,279 --> 01:09:04,319
for it. 
They would have done it anyway, 

1364
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:06,800
is what most historians believe.
They would have just made a 

1365
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,720
naked attempt at conquest with I
don't need a they don't need 

1366
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,680
this kid. 
But it was a it helped, but 

1367
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,880
ultimately it failed because the
rebel army was defeated in 

1368
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:17,960
Ireland at the Battle of Stoke 
Field. 

1369
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,520
Simon's was captured because he 
was a priest. 

1370
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:22,960
They didn't kill him. 
They just imprisoned him for 

1371
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:25,399
life. 
Game and pale hair's mother was 

1372
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:28,160
not spared, as we saw. 
So the, the perpetrator, the, 

1373
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,080
you know, main conspirator in 
both these cases had different 

1374
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:36,520
fates, whereas the reverse is 
true for the claimants. 

1375
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,000
Whereas Game and Pale Hair 
eventually died to poison 

1376
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,720
Seminole, he was also pardoned 
because he was 10 years old. 

1377
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,560
Just like Game and Pale Hair, 
they're like, this is a boy. 

1378
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:49,520
He didn't do this on his own. 
This wasn't his plan. 

1379
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,560
This wasn't his agency. 
So they let him go. 

1380
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,520
They're like, we're not going to
let you go. 

1381
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,760
They gave him a job as a spit 
Turner. 

1382
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,280
Not that different than a food 
taster, except a way less 

1383
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,200
perilous kitchen related food 
related, right. 

1384
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,640
But he rose higher, which maybe 
game and pale hair would have if

1385
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,440
he hadn't died so young. 
Signal actually became a 

1386
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:11,040
Falconer. 
Yeah, that's a pretty good job. 

1387
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:13,880
Royal Falconer. 
Yeah, probably good pay in that 

1388
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:15,200
and not much danger. 
Not much. 

1389
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,440
Pretty good prestige. 
So it worked out all right for 

1390
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:18,920
Lambert Simmell. 
Happy ending for him. 

1391
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,800
And he might even still have 
descendants out there. 

1392
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,280
There's signals that that 
probably relate to him and I 

1393
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:27,560
didn't die of poison, that's for
sure. 

1394
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,240
And of course, Lambert Seminole 
leads us back to Aegon slash 

1395
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,520
Young Griff because it's not 
just the appearance, but that is

1396
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,760
important, but the training in 
secret to make him a king in 

1397
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,400
secret, like teaching him 
courtly men or taking a regular 

1398
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:44,400
person that wasn't raised that 
way and pretending that they 

1399
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,480
were. 
Also, they're both the 6th, 

1400
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:47,560
right? 
This is Edward the 6th. 

1401
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,880
He was crowned as Edward the 
6th, and Aegon is Aegon the 6th.

1402
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,360
Now this brings us back to our 
previous example of Perkin the 

1403
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,760
Flea, Tristane True Fire and 
their historical parallel Perkin

1404
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,360
Warbach. 
The dead giveaway, of course, is

1405
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,840
the name Perkin. 
There are a few other Perkins in

1406
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,280
the Song of Ice and Fire, but 
not many. 

1407
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,240
This is probably the most famous
by far. 

1408
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,400
This guy didn't look like the 
sons of Edward the 4th. 

1409
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:11,160
He looked like Edward the 4th 
specifically. 

1410
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:15,120
So he didn't have any like 
person backing him. 

1411
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:19,040
He's like, hey, I look like that
former king, I'm going for it. 

1412
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,680
But he did the same thing 
Lambert Signal did, or his 

1413
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,760
conspirators did. 
He claimed to also be that same 

1414
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,800
dead younger Prince in the 
Tower, Richard. 

1415
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:29,720
They were like, it almost worked
for him. 

1416
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,160
Why not? 
And everybody exposed that one 

1417
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:33,960
as a fraud. 
So it's still kind of an Open 

1418
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,760
title to be grabbed. 
I can be the Richard he claimed 

1419
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:39,120
he had been spared. 
Yes. 

1420
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:40,720
They killed my older brother 
Edward. 

1421
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,360
But they spared me because I was
young at the time. 

1422
01:11:43,480 --> 01:11:47,320
I took an oath not to reveal 
myself until now. 

1423
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,520
A holy oath. 
I couldn't say anything until 

1424
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,160
now. 
Yeah. 

1425
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,160
It's so convenient, isn't it? 
But it makes me wonder, will 

1426
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,400
Aegon Young Griff do the same 
thing? 

1427
01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:59,640
Something like that? 
Like I couldn't reveal myself 

1428
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,240
until now, you know, I had to 
keep my secret the the enemies 

1429
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,600
of my family are legion and I 
had to hide, blah blah blah. 

1430
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:08,720
He's got to make statements, 
right? 

1431
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:10,400
This can't just be, hey, I'm 
back y'all. 

1432
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,640
And I think they'll be carefully
written statements engineered by

1433
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:17,400
Varis, a master of such things, 
right? 

1434
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:23,080
So this is we haven't gotten to 
this phase of Aegon's claim to 

1435
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:24,160
the throne yet. 
We've only gotten to the 

1436
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,840
beginning of the invasion. 
We haven't really seen how the 

1437
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:30,960
propaganda and how the getting 
people to believe that he is 

1438
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:34,200
what he says he is part that 
hasn't we haven't seen that take

1439
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,400
root in Westeros yet. 
That's to come and I'm pretty 

1440
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,400
excited about it. 
This guy also had coins minted 

1441
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,680
in his name. 
He was really deep into it. 

1442
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:43,960
He was like, I'm going to do all
the things the king does. 

1443
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:46,680
Don't forget who else did that 
in in Westeros history. 

1444
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,120
Damon Blackfire. 
That was even a part of the plot

1445
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,240
in the mystery night. 
Remember the snail guy? 

1446
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:55,920
The snail jouster got mad at his
Squire for accepting a Damon 

1447
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,480
Blackfire gold coin. 
He's like, this is treason to 

1448
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:00,720
this. 
Pass this currency around. 

1449
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,000
They really came down hard on 
it, Right? 

1450
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,680
I'd like Tristane Trufire. 
Perkin Warbeck stoked anger by 

1451
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,480
referring to unfair laws, 
especially taxes. 

1452
01:13:11,480 --> 01:13:14,400
Yeah, that was one of the ones 
that Tristane Trufire issued an 

1453
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:18,280
edict against was the unpopular 
taxes of Bartima Seltegar, which

1454
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,120
were wartime taxes. 
When Perkin Warbeck landed in, I

1455
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:26,880
think it was Cornwall, he was 
like, taxes are too high, taxes 

1456
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,080
are too damn high. 
I'm going to lower taxes. 

1457
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,920
Just just a reminder that I'm 
going to lower taxes is 

1458
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:37,360
something politicians have been 
promising for forever, and a few

1459
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:38,960
of them actually do it, but only
a few. 

1460
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:43,640
This guy made multiple landings 
in England, didn't succeed, Went

1461
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,120
to Ireland to get support, went 
to Scotland to get support, went

1462
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,440
to Burgundy to get support. 
Remember, if you want to fight 

1463
01:13:48,440 --> 01:13:52,120
England, Ireland, Scotland, 
Burgundy, and maybe Wales are 

1464
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:53,680
your allies. 
Wales wasn't involved in this 

1465
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:59,320
one, but you know, his imposture
went really far though. 

1466
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:03,360
He was called King Richard the 
4th by other monarchs. 

1467
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:05,400
They were like, Yep, that's King
Richard the 4th all right. 

1468
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,160
He went to the funeral of the 
Holy Roman Emperor and they're 

1469
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:14,600
like presenting King Richard the
4th, but he actually got married

1470
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:19,200
to a woman named Lady Catherine 
Gordon got married under the 

1471
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,600
auspices of being this king. 
But this is actually the the 

1472
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,640
biggest clue that everyone in on
it knew that he wasn't really 

1473
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,560
Richard because this was a very 
minor noble woman. 

1474
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,960
If they believed he was really 
King Richard, he would have 

1475
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,880
married someone way higher born.
This was a minor noble woman. 

1476
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,160
So that's a giveaway. 
And this is consistent with what

1477
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,440
we see in The Song of Ice and 
Fire with Joffrey, Jane Poole 

1478
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,800
and others, which is that they 
know, but they're not going to 

1479
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,600
speak up. 
Who's going to say in Roose 

1480
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,400
Bolton, like in Roose Bolton, 
that's not really our Yeah, a 

1481
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,560
good way to die, right? 
Same thing with Joffrey. 

1482
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,560
Like, who's going to stay? 
Like, who's going to stand there

1483
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,120
and say, that's not really, you 
know, Robert's son? 

1484
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,480
Well, there Ned will, but very 
few others will, right? 

1485
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:04,600
Stannis will, but only when an 
army behind him. 

1486
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,760
Either they can't do anything 
about it or it's against their 

1487
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:08,760
best interest to even try, or 
both. 

1488
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:11,280
So real world, this has happened
as well. 

1489
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:16,840
Now he's certain Robert Clifford
joined this conspiracy of Perkin

1490
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,160
Warbeck as a double agent. 
He lied to his fellow 

1491
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,600
conspirators. 
So, yeah, Perkins, really King 

1492
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,520
Richard to get them to join, to 
see who would join, right. 

1493
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,360
It's like, it's like a it's like
a false flag. 

1494
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:32,520
It's like, yeah, we got the real
deal. 

1495
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,080
Now who's with me? 
And then when the who's with me 

1496
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,000
revealed themselves, he gave he 
made a list and gave it to the 

1497
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:41,160
king, gave to King Henry. 
And then Henry went and had 

1498
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,040
those people arrested and most 
of them were executed. 

1499
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:47,840
It would be kind of like if 
someone was like, yeah, this 

1500
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:51,160
King Aegon's the real deal. 
Hey, friends in the Reach, who's

1501
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:53,080
with us? 
But it turns out this was 

1502
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,120
somebody on the Lannister side 
and and had them all killed. 

1503
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,080
Now, in the end, Perkin Warbeck 
confessed in writing to his true

1504
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:02,280
identity. 
Well, he was forced to do this, 

1505
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:03,480
so who knows what was actually 
true. 

1506
01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:05,400
And this guy wasn't exactly 
honest in the 1st place. 

1507
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:09,280
We don't know, but he also was, 
not surprisingly. 

1508
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,160
Now you can get why they didn't 
kill young Lambert Seminole. 

1509
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:14,600
He's a boy. 
He didn't really have that much 

1510
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:16,880
to do with it. 
Like, why execute a child? 

1511
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,160
It doesn't look good in this era
of Christianity. 

1512
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:24,320
And you're trying not to kill, 
you know, So killing boys is 

1513
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:27,520
pretty bad. 
But this was a man, a full grown

1514
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:31,080
man who tried to impersonate a 
king and got really far with it.

1515
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,760
You would think they'd kill him,
but they didn't. 

1516
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,480
They kept him in captivity, just
held on to him. 

1517
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:40,640
Like, you can chill here. 
Hey, he tried to escape and they

1518
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,040
still didn't kill him. 
They got him back, put him in 

1519
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:44,800
the Tower of London. 
They're like, OK, we're going to

1520
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,040
give you a tougher prison. 
And he was put inside the Tower 

1521
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,800
of London with the current Earl 
of Warwick, another Earl of 

1522
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,720
Warwick, the 17th Earl of 
Warwick, also named Edward. 

1523
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:58,440
Those two conspired together to 
try to escape. 

1524
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,440
They did, but they got caught. 
This time they're like, all 

1525
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:05,960
right, that's it, execution. 
His wife, Catherine Gordon, 

1526
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:07,840
became a lady in waiting to the 
royal family. 

1527
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,080
So not the not, not a terrible 
ending for her. 

1528
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:16,320
So doesn't this show you how 
history provides so much raw 

1529
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,480
material for George? 
There's so many stories that 

1530
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:23,920
sound fictional that aren't. 
They're just too like, what's 

1531
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:25,320
that word? 
Stranger than fiction? 

1532
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:27,080
Yeah. 
But this also helps keep it 

1533
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:29,320
authentic. 
George's stories, his writing. 

1534
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,040
One of the things he's so 
amazing at is creating scenes, 

1535
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,720
dialogue and characters that 
speak in ways that feel real. 

1536
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,680
And he backs this up with things
that are authentic. 

1537
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,040
And we know there are things 
because they really happened. 

1538
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:43,400
And you when you hear that they 
really happened, it makes 

1539
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,800
George's world feel more real 
because you know this is not 

1540
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,120
made from whole cloth. 
It's a combination of his 

1541
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:52,880
invention, his, his imagination,
his creativity and what he's 

1542
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:57,640
learned from the real world. 
The Dance of the Dragon. 

1543
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:59,160
We're not done with the Dance of
the Dragons. 

1544
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:02,320
He it gives us another brief 
pretender whose death opened the

1545
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:07,080
door for imposter pretenders. 
Deron the daring. 

1546
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,440
During the war, Deron was the 
most effective of the Green 

1547
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:13,120
Dragon riders. 
His case showed how effective a 

1548
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,920
dragon and an army working 
together could be disciplined, 

1549
01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:21,240
organized, and They dominated 
the Southern Reach, winning a 

1550
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,520
number of battles against the 
Black faction, thanks in part to

1551
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:28,040
the two betrayers, in large part
to the two betrayers, Deron and 

1552
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,480
Lord Ormond Hightower. 
And the Greens won the first 

1553
01:18:30,480 --> 01:18:34,400
battle of Tumbleton right with 
with Hugh Hammer and Wolf White 

1554
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:36,160
being the two betrayers, of 
course. 

1555
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,200
Now, it really should have been 
Eamond who was the most 

1556
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,800
effective of the Green Dragon 
Riders, but he was too erratic, 

1557
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,280
too driven by emotion, maybe a 
little crazy. 

1558
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:48,000
And when Eamon died, Daron 
actually became the Green 

1559
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:52,040
claimant for the throne because 
Malore was already dead and 

1560
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:53,440
people thought Egon the Second 
was dead. 

1561
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:58,360
He wasn't. 
But none of neither Daron nor 

1562
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:00,440
these other Lords of the Reach 
knew that they thought he was 

1563
01:19:00,440 --> 01:19:03,040
dead. 
So Daron's the pretender to the 

1564
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:06,280
throne. 
Easy to forget or miss that that

1565
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:08,400
he was technically the claimant 
for a little while. 

1566
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,640
So many actually wanted to 
proclaim him king and he was all

1567
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,240
for it. 
And This is why the impostors of

1568
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,640
him that came along later had so
much potency because he was an 

1569
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,080
actual pretender. 
He was very close to getting the

1570
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:23,400
throne. 
And then it would have been 

1571
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,360
confusing when his brother 
revealed him, said, hey, I'm 

1572
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,880
still alive, you know, like, Oh 
well, I guess it's yours. 

1573
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:33,480
Had the Reach Lords continued to
work together as they had been 

1574
01:19:33,480 --> 01:19:36,720
for a while, things might have 
gone pretty well for them 'cause

1575
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:38,480
they had worked together. 
It went well, they won the 

1576
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:42,520
Battle of Tumbleton. 
But then bad leadership really 

1577
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,480
started to take over. 
Just like it was fairly true for

1578
01:19:46,480 --> 01:19:48,080
the Anarchy. 
There's so many bad decisions 

1579
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,720
made during the Anarchy. 
Just fling military decisions, 

1580
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:56,880
weird political decisions, legal
rulings that were that harmed 

1581
01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,040
the side making them. 
Yeah, just bizarre choices. 

1582
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,640
Bad leadership is just a simple 
way to put it, and obviously 

1583
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:04,160
that was the case with the 
Blacks and the Greens. 

1584
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,560
Very few of leaders on either 
side were competent and a lot of

1585
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,520
them were incompetent. 
But the real distraction here 

1586
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,720
was Hugh Hammer making his move 
instead. 

1587
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:17,680
Yes, Darren's the claimant, but 
Darren was young and Hugh 

1588
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,240
Hammer's like, I've got the 
biggest dragon now. 

1589
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:26,040
I've got a better play for the 
throne than this boy with his 

1590
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:29,440
small dragon. 
And this caused infighting 

1591
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:31,680
amongst the greens. 
The caltrops were like all 

1592
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:33,640
right, well we're going to 
assassinate the two betrayers. 

1593
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,680
So we got 2 Princess of the 
tower, 2 betray betrayers, 2 

1594
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:39,960
kings under the moon of three 
king, let's say Paris today. 

1595
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,120
This of course was great for the
army headed towards them for the

1596
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,000
Riverlands, right? 
The Riverlands were Riverlands 

1597
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,760
army led by Bloody Ben and Black
Alley, Blackwood and all those 

1598
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,120
folks. 
They were headed for Tumbleton 

1599
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:54,840
and it really worked out well 
for them that the Greens were 

1600
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:57,840
infighting because they were 
very unprepared for this attack.

1601
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:01,360
So when the Riverlands army 
shows up, as you all probably 

1602
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:05,560
remember, neither of the Two 
Betrayers nor Damon or sorry 

1603
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:10,320
Deron managed to get to their 
Dragons in time to actually use 

1604
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,000
them in the battle. 
And that was a huge part of why 

1605
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:17,360
the Second Battle of Tumbleton 
was a huge win for the Blacks. 

1606
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,400
A reversal of the First Battle 
of Tumbleton. 

1607
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:21,720
Here is what Fire and Blood 
tells us. 

1608
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:25,080
Quote. 
So intent were they upon their 

1609
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:29,880
own conflicts and rivalries that
they had all but forgotten their

1610
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:34,040
true foes. 
Sarah Adams night attack took 

1611
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:39,120
them completely unawares before 
the men of Prince Darren's army 

1612
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:43,320
even knew they were in a battle.
The enemy was amongst them, 

1613
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:46,960
cutting them down as they 
staggered from their tents, as 

1614
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,880
they were saddling their horses,
struggling to Don their armor, 

1615
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:55,920
buckling their sword belts. 
Most devastating of all was the 

1616
01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:00,280
Dragon Sea. 
Smoke came swooping down again, 

1617
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:07,000
and yet again breathing flame. 
100 tents were soon afire, even 

1618
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:12,360
the splendid silken pavilions of
SER Hobert Hightail, Sorry of 

1619
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:18,960
SER Hobert Hightower, Lord Unwin
Peak, and Prince Daron himself. 

1620
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,960
So Lord Unwin and Sir Hobert, 
even though their tents were set

1621
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:24,520
afire, as this quote tells you, 
they survived. 

1622
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:28,080
But Prince Daron was never seen 
again, and accounts differ as to

1623
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:29,920
what happened to him. 
And what did we tell you? 

1624
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,760
If accounts differ, If there's 
confusion, then it opens the 

1625
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:34,640
door for imposters. 
That's exactly what happened. 

1626
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,200
But first, here are the tales 
we're actually given about what 

1627
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:42,600
happened to Daron. 
Quote #1. 3 Conflicting accounts

1628
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:46,840
exist as to the manner of death 
of Prince Daron Targaryen. 

1629
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:49,960
The best known claims that the 
Prince stumbled from his 

1630
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:54,600
pavilion with his night clothes 
a fire, only to be cut down by 

1631
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:59,400
the mirror cell sword Black 
Trombo, who smashed his face in 

1632
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:01,960
with the swing of his spiked 
morning star. 

1633
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:06,440
This version was the one 
preferred by Black Trombo, who 

1634
01:23:06,440 --> 01:23:11,000
told it far and wide. 
The second version is more or 

1635
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:15,120
less the same, save that the 
Prince was killed with a sword, 

1636
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:19,600
not a morning star, and his 
Slayer was not black trombone, 

1637
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:24,880
but some unknown man at arms who
like is not did not even realize

1638
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:29,120
whom he had killed. 
In the third alternative, the 

1639
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:34,520
brave boy known as Deron the 
Daring did not even make it out 

1640
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:38,520
at all, but died when his 
burning pavilion collapsed upon 

1641
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:41,400
him. 
That is the version preferred by

1642
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:46,480
Munkins true telling and by us. 
You think if Black Trombo had 

1643
01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:48,120
been hired by the Greens, he 
would have changed his name to 

1644
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:50,760
Green Trombo? 
So all three versions of this 

1645
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,760
story have Deron on fire. 
In the first two, he runs out of

1646
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:55,840
his tent and is killed, and the 
third he never makes out of his 

1647
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,040
tent at all. 
So really, these aren't terribly

1648
01:23:58,040 --> 01:23:59,760
different accounts. 
They all. 

1649
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,080
He dies in all of them. 
He's on fire in all of them, you

1650
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:05,120
know, and he doesn't get very 
far in two of them. 

1651
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:08,040
So there's not much dispute here
yet. 

1652
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:11,000
The fact that there's any 
different, any dispute at all, 

1653
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,480
opens that door a little. 
And with that door open, in come

1654
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:17,800
the impostors. 
Let's start with the historical 

1655
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,920
parallel for these impostors, 
the false Dmitri's. 

1656
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,240
We mentioned them earlier. 
Shout out again to Matt Reese 

1657
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,400
for this. 
And this is the times of trouble

1658
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,600
that we referred to earlier as 
well. 

1659
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,440
So first of all, we have Dmitri 
of Uglik, AKA Dmitri Ivanovich, 

1660
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,800
who was the youngest son of Ivan
the 4th, also known as Ivan the 

1661
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,000
Terrible. 
So the heir apparent, his older 

1662
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:42,480
half brother Fedor the first, 
who's kind of weak and sickly. 

1663
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,600
So the country was ruled by a 
council instead, headed by this 

1664
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:51,040
guy named Boris Godinov. 
Godinov who sent Dmitri, his 

1665
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:53,440
mother and her brothers into 
external exile, internal exile, 

1666
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:57,440
because he wanted to keep his 
rule of the council through this

1667
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,360
puppet king. 
Basically, Dmitri died under 

1668
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:04,240
mysterious circumstances, 
probably killed by Godinov, and 

1669
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:07,640
so that Godinov could become 
Tsar when Fedor died. 

1670
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:12,160
Now later the first false Dmitri
appears. 

1671
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:15,400
He entered history around 1600 
and he made it. 

1672
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,680
He made a strong impression on 
the Patriarch of Moscow, which 

1673
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,000
is a big deal. 
The Patriarch of Moscow, big 

1674
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,680
religious leader Goodenough, is 
czar now. 

1675
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:27,520
So he succeeded in that. 
But he try and he tries to 

1676
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:33,120
arrest this Dmitri, but Dmitri 
flees to the Polish border with 

1677
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,920
Lithuania. 
And so he's get a little bit 

1678
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,720
outside of of Dimitri of 
Gudinov's reach in 16 O 5. 

1679
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:44,440
Five years later, a Polish 
Lithuanian army backs him, plus 

1680
01:25:44,440 --> 01:25:46,760
anti Gudinov Russians helping 
him out. 

1681
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,080
And they win the first battle, 
but then lose the second battle.

1682
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:54,960
Then there again, Gudinov dies 
and some of the victorious 

1683
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:58,040
Russians, they just beat Dmitri.
They switched to his side 

1684
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,000
because Gudinov died. 
They're like, well, we, we got 

1685
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,760
to be on the side of the guy 
who's going to be king, even 

1686
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:06,200
though he just lost. 
So he married a Polish 

1687
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,800
noblewoman, presumably as part 
of his deal to get this Polish 

1688
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:11,880
army. 
But she didn't convert to 

1689
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:15,480
Orthodoxy, which was a big 
problem because the Russia was 

1690
01:26:15,480 --> 01:26:20,000
very Orthodox at this time. 
And there was a rumor that 

1691
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,720
Dmitri was going to unite the 
Russian Orthodox Church with 

1692
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,920
Rome, with the papacy, which is 
like, God, they didn't want 

1693
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:27,680
that. 
They really there was bad. 

1694
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,960
So this may have been a false 
rumor just to push back against 

1695
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,680
Dmitri. 
Anyway, it was led to a revolt 

1696
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:38,440
that led his he he died. 
He was killed 10 days after his 

1697
01:26:38,440 --> 01:26:40,280
marriage and only 11 months into
his reign. 

1698
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:45,360
So this marriage to the not 
orthodox Polish noblewoman was 

1699
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,000
the death blow in his short 
reign of of false Dmitri the 

1700
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:50,760
first. 
Now we have false Dmitri the 

1701
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,880
second or the second false 
Dmitri giving him an ordinal 

1702
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:55,440
number. 
False Dmitri, the second false 

1703
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:58,080
Dmitri, the third, yes. 
Like, no, the second false 

1704
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,360
Dmitri appeared only two years 
after the death of this other 

1705
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,200
one, or maybe even only a year 
and a half. 

1706
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:06,240
He was probably a priest's son 
or maybe a converted Jew that 

1707
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:08,840
had a resemblance to the first 
false Dmitri. 

1708
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:13,920
And like Aegon the 6th and 
Lambert Signal, he was raised 

1709
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:15,960
for this role. 
It was a not just a, hey, I'm 

1710
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:17,440
going to impersonate somebody. 
You know, there's a lot of 

1711
01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:20,840
planning and teaching and 
learning how to act. 

1712
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,600
So like learning how to be 
courtly, speaking other 

1713
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:25,560
language, whatever all the 
things that Royals do, he had to

1714
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:28,120
be able to pass all these sniff 
tests and be able to behave like

1715
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:31,440
a royalty, like a royal person 
and not get caught. 

1716
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:37,960
So he was impersonating A 
Muscovite boyar, which was a 

1717
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,040
thing that was happening 
throughout the events here. 

1718
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:46,760
He got tortured and falsely 
confessed under torture to be 

1719
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,440
Dimitri. 
He's like, I'm Dimitri. 

1720
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:52,080
I really am Dimitri. 
So that that's amazing. 

1721
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:55,280
He's tortured and he still held 
out to still convince him that 

1722
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,960
he was what he said he was. 
And then because he was, because

1723
01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:02,960
he confessed under torture, it 
made people believe, even though

1724
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:06,120
it was a fake confession. 
So Cossacks, Poles, Muscovites 

1725
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,520
all started to join him. 
They were like, OK, this guy's 

1726
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:10,600
the real deal after all, like 
tortured. 

1727
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,680
And he's still that's that's 
pretty good proof. 

1728
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:15,640
False. 
Dmitri's wife, the this previous

1729
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,720
woman that we talked about, she 
meets him and accepts him. 

1730
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:23,560
She's like, Yep, that's him. 
Obviously she's in on it, I 

1731
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:26,400
guess, but it really helped 
legitimize he got people. 

1732
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:30,160
You get the belief that he was 
tortured and and still made this

1733
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:33,760
claim that he was Dmitri. 
His wife says, Yep, that's him. 

1734
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:36,440
That's a lot of proof, but it 
was all fake. 

1735
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:41,320
He led an army only a year later
in 16 O 8 to Moscow, won some 

1736
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:45,080
battles, but then the king of 
Poland arrived and all his polar

1737
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:47,280
supporters are like, Nah, that's
we're going to go to his we're 

1738
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:48,520
we're following our king, not 
you. 

1739
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:55,640
And then the the Russian 
loyalists got Sweden on their 

1740
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:59,040
side and marched on Dimitri and 
he had to flee. 

1741
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:03,320
And he was just killed two years
later by another princeling, a 

1742
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:04,680
tar. 
He got into like a fight with a 

1743
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:06,680
Tartar princeling and was 
killed. 

1744
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:09,720
Drunken death, like very ignoble
ending. 

1745
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:15,640
One more false Dimitri. 
Yes, the third one, he was 

1746
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:17,320
supposed to have been a Deacon. 
So like, there's a lot of 

1747
01:29:17,320 --> 01:29:21,080
religion behind all these guys. 
But that's partly because the 

1748
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:23,640
church had so much power in 
Russia in this era. 

1749
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:25,400
He he was probably called 
Siddurka. 

1750
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,440
Matt says he's the most 
enigmatic of the three, and I 

1751
01:29:28,440 --> 01:29:31,160
think I agree. 
He was more like secretive, a 

1752
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:33,040
little more mysterious. 
We know a little less about. 

1753
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:34,280
He might have been the 
cleverest. 

1754
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,960
He appeared only a year later, 
after the death of the last 

1755
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:40,040
Dmitri. 
And maybe the death of him in 

1756
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:44,160
such a big noble way was part of
how this guy was able to get 

1757
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:45,960
going. 
So he appeared in a town called 

1758
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:48,600
Ivan Gourd, proclaimed himself 
Dmitri. 

1759
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,000
This was 1611, like I said, only
a year later. 

1760
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:56,480
The Cossacks acknowledged him as
czar a year less than a year 

1761
01:29:56,480 --> 01:30:01,400
later, or about a year later. 
And he forced the Gentry like 

1762
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:04,960
the all the like the the middle 
class and up the the wealthier 

1763
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,480
people to kiss the hand like he 
made them bend the knee 

1764
01:30:07,480 --> 01:30:10,480
basically. 
But he had to flee. 

1765
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:13,400
It didn't go that well. 
And they captured him and had 

1766
01:30:13,400 --> 01:30:15,800
him secretly executed, which is 
kind of odd that they executed 

1767
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:17,200
him secretly. 
I wonder why they did that 

1768
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:19,920
because you'd think they'd want 
to execute him publicly. 

1769
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:25,160
So it would be widely known that
this Dimitri was killed, but it 

1770
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,600
must have had their reasons. 
And it worked. 

1771
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:29,680
I guess there weren't any more 
false Dimitris. 

1772
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,400
So either way, that was the end 
of the Dimitris. 

1773
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,480
Now we go back to the Derons and
you'll see. 

1774
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,960
And this is the end of the war. 
So the Dance of the Dragons is 

1775
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:44,600
where we get back to before the 
war actually ended. 

1776
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:47,400
Remember, Aegon emerges from 
hiding and is like, oh, Aegon's 

1777
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,680
still alive. 
He's terribly wounded like his 

1778
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:52,280
dragon. 
His dragon eats Raneera and 

1779
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:55,040
captures Raneera's son, the 
future Aegon the Third. 

1780
01:30:55,400 --> 01:31:00,440
He then proclaims quote. 
The time for hiding is done, 

1781
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:05,320
King Aegon the Second declared. 
Let the Ravens fly that the 

1782
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:09,640
realm may know the pretenders 
dead and their true king is 

1783
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:13,800
coming home to reclaim his 
father's throne. 

1784
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:16,600
Straightforward political speak 
here. 

1785
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:19,360
My enemy is the pretender. 
I'm the true king. 

1786
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:22,560
He reminds people it's his 
father's throne while ignoring 

1787
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:23,960
that it's also his sister's 
throne. 

1788
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:26,920
Rainier was every bit or his 
daughter too, right? 

1789
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:28,760
So that makes a lot of sense, 
right? 

1790
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:33,040
The War of words is is a big 
deal because the War of Swords 

1791
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:35,120
and Dragons is the the front of 
it. 

1792
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,880
But it's the war of words that 
helps determine what side people

1793
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:41,640
fight on in the War of Swords 
and Dragons in the first place. 

1794
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:44,760
But of course, at this point, 
Aegon thinks it's over. 

1795
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,200
He thinks he's won. 
Of course he didn't. 

1796
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:49,720
Now, let's jump back to the 
anarchy briefly. 

1797
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:52,440
We're we're swirling through a 
lot of parallels, jumping from 

1798
01:31:52,440 --> 01:31:56,000
different time periods in both 
the real world and Westeros. 

1799
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,800
Empress Matilda didn't give up 
the fight for England, but she 

1800
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:01,640
did hand it over to her son 
Henry. 

1801
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:05,320
Obviously Henry, right? 
She's like, I'm done fighting 

1802
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:07,400
for England. 
But her son's like, yeah, I'll 

1803
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,840
keep doing it and I'll do it. 
Part of the reason she she was 

1804
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:11,400
done was that it wasn't going 
well. 

1805
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:13,760
She'd already been booed out of 
London, basically. 

1806
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:17,080
And her second husband, 
remember, she was married to the

1807
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:18,520
Holy Roman Empire. 
Well, he died. 

1808
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:23,080
She remarried to Jeffrey the 
Fair, who conquered Normandy in 

1809
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:27,080
her name in 44, Normandy in 44. 
That sounds like World War 2, 

1810
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:33,800
but no, not 19441144. 
So she was now the Duchess of 

1811
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:35,040
Normandy. 
She's like, you know what? 

1812
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,600
I got the Duchess of Normandy. 
I got all these other things. 

1813
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:39,080
I don't care about England 
anymore. 

1814
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:41,520
Let me just do this. 
But like I said, her son Henry 

1815
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:43,640
Fitz Empress, he was all about 
it. 

1816
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:46,360
He he basically inherited her 
pretender status. 

1817
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,760
The anarchy was finally resolved
by Stephen getting to keep the 

1818
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:56,240
crown, but he had to knock his 
own son out of the line of 

1819
01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:59,320
succession and accept Henry, son
of Matilda. 

1820
01:32:59,440 --> 01:33:01,400
So both sides kind of like, 
well, Stephen's going to be 

1821
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,480
king, but the line is going to 
go through the original line. 

1822
01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:08,520
It started with through King 
Henry, father of Matilda. 

1823
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:11,360
This is Henry the Second. 
He became Henry the Second 

1824
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:13,760
because King King Stephen died 
within a year. 

1825
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:17,080
There's no accusations of foul 
play, but I guess you never 

1826
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,160
know. 
Certainly didn't. 

1827
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:22,840
Henry didn't have to wait long. 
And in the meantime, Stephen's 

1828
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:27,400
son, a Eustis, the Black Prince,
was not happy about being 

1829
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:30,200
written out of the succession 
and started a war over it. 

1830
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:32,480
But he died. 
He was very effective Prince. 

1831
01:33:32,480 --> 01:33:36,120
He was dangerous, but he he got 
sick and died shortly after 

1832
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:40,080
looting some temples, which a 
lot of people in that era, they 

1833
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,480
of course blamed him looting 
temples on. 

1834
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:44,120
That's why he died. 
You're like, God punished you 

1835
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:47,320
for that man. 
So Henry the second, who, like I

1836
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:49,560
said, became king after Stephen 
and that's the end of the 

1837
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:51,520
anarchy. 
He ruled for 45 years. 

1838
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:55,160
So you could maybe compare him 
to Jaharius the first, but 

1839
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:56,600
that's a comparison for another 
day. 

1840
01:33:57,200 --> 01:34:00,800
That's a sitting king. 
So now here we go with the 

1841
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,600
aftermath. 
And back to Dara on the daring 

1842
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:08,360
because his name clearly did not
die with him starting about five

1843
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:12,240
years after his death, so maybe 
around the year one 35136 his 

1844
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:16,760
shadow returned quote. 
Whatever the manner of his 

1845
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:22,560
death, it is beyond dispute that
Daron Targaryen, youngest son of

1846
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:27,760
King Viserys the First by Queen 
Allison, died at the Second 

1847
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:31,480
Battle of Tumbleton. 
The feigned Princess who 

1848
01:34:31,480 --> 01:34:35,840
appeared during the reign of 
Aegon the Third, using his name,

1849
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:40,120
have been conclusively shown to 
be impostors. 

1850
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:46,960
Sadly, we don't know who they 
were, what they did, how they 

1851
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:48,840
were conclusively shown to be 
impostors. 

1852
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:51,680
This is all stuff that would be 
covered in fire and blood. 

1853
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:53,760
Two blood and fire. 
It's that era. 

1854
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:54,920
That's that's where this 
happened. 

1855
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:57,480
So Darren looked like a 
Targaryen. 

1856
01:34:57,480 --> 01:34:59,120
We know that from his 
description. 

1857
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:01,960
He favored his Targaryen 
ancestry, not his Hightower. 

1858
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:06,160
So if he had looked like a Hight
tower, it probably would have 

1859
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:08,120
been easier to impersonate him 
because you got probably a lot 

1860
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:11,400
more light brown or dark brown 
haired people around than you 

1861
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:14,320
know, Targaryen looking. 
Regardless, it's not that hard 

1862
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:16,120
to find Targaryen looking 
people, right? 

1863
01:35:16,120 --> 01:35:18,880
Like Lease in the free cities, 
Volantis especially, you can 

1864
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:20,960
find people that have that 
coloring. 

1865
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:26,520
So that might be a good theory 
here because who supported these

1866
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:29,080
imposter Princess? 
They didn't just like show up 

1867
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,080
like Amy's black fire and get 
executed, right? 

1868
01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:33,560
They had they probably came with
armies and it says they were 

1869
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:34,880
troublesome. 
It says the realm. 

1870
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:37,200
It was difficult, right? 
There was disputes about it. 

1871
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:40,000
There was there was needing to 
be these challenges needed to be

1872
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:41,200
put down. 
So they weren't simple. 

1873
01:35:41,200 --> 01:35:44,000
They weren't they weren't just 
something you could just sneeze 

1874
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:45,600
at. 
They they caused problems, 

1875
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:50,080
though we don't know how big or 
how serious they were. 

1876
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:53,560
And remember, this was after the
era of Dragons. 

1877
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:55,280
Yes, the Dance of the Dragons 
had just happened, but so many 

1878
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:57,320
of the Dragons were killed 
already. 

1879
01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:00,840
Targaryen supremacy was severely
muted because of their loss of 

1880
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:03,360
their ultimate weapon. 
So that's what anyone who's 

1881
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:06,520
coming at them in this era is, 
is going on that calculation. 

1882
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:09,200
It's like, hey, we don't have to
deal with the Dragons anymore. 

1883
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:12,240
This dynasty might be a lot 
easier to knock off now. 

1884
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:16,120
So this, these false Darrons 
almost certainly have that in 

1885
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:17,200
mind. 
They're like, this is our 

1886
01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:19,240
chance. 
And if we don't take it now, 

1887
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:21,880
someone else will cause the 
whole world now realizes these 

1888
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:25,200
Targaryens might be vulnerable. 
The Targaryens will be eager to 

1889
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:30,200
say, hey, were still strong and 
powerful, they would be pretty 

1890
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:35,080
keen on proving that to shut 
down further challenges to their

1891
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:38,720
supremacy. 
So like I said, we don't know a 

1892
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:40,440
lot of detail about these false 
Darrons. 

1893
01:36:40,440 --> 01:36:43,640
There were at least three 'cause
it says several, it doesn't say 

1894
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,800
2, it doesn't say one, it says 
several. 

1895
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:47,800
That's at least three. 
I said there could even be like 

1896
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:50,360
1/4 or 1/5. 
I'm guessing three 'cause it 

1897
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:54,400
seems a lot to have more than 
that, but hey, it's possible. 

1898
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:56,520
So. 
And the time frame for this is 

1899
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:59,560
sometime around 1:36 to before 
157. 

1900
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:03,120
So the first one would have been
around 1:36 and the others would

1901
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:06,080
have been done by 1:57 because 
they all happened during the 

1902
01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:08,960
reign of Egon the 3rd, and Egon 
the Third's reign ended in 157. 

1903
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:14,040
And of course the when this 
happened would give you an idea 

1904
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:15,640
of how old these false Darrons 
were. 

1905
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:17,360
If it happened in the late 
130's. 

1906
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:20,120
The imposters would have to be 
early 20s because that's how old

1907
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:22,160
Darren would have been. 
So on and so forth. 

1908
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:25,120
This could be a little bit like 
a Young Griff of the 9 penny 

1909
01:37:25,120 --> 01:37:30,880
King situation where you've got 
a pretty strong claimant by name

1910
01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:36,480
and reasonable if not powerful 
support behind them due to 

1911
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:39,800
ambition. 
Or just no, no, just ambition. 

1912
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:42,720
That's it. 
So in the quote also it says 

1913
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:45,480
that Viserys or in that section 
of the book, it tells us that 

1914
01:37:45,480 --> 01:37:48,280
Viserys as in the future of 
Viserys the Second, Aegon's 

1915
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:51,800
younger brother and Hand was 
chiefly responsible for dealing 

1916
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,520
with these impostors. 
He and he was a very competent 

1917
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:57,600
hand who ruled for 20 years. 
He managed things during Baylor 

1918
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,160
the blesseds time. 
So dealing with these imposter 

1919
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:02,720
Derrons is probably easier than 
dealing with Baylor the blessed.

1920
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:07,240
But again, we don't know. 
Now Aegon the Third also named 

1921
01:38:07,240 --> 01:38:10,320
his first born son Derrons in 
the year 143, which might have 

1922
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:14,240
been a way to sort of take a 
little steam away from possible 

1923
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:19,040
future false Derrons. 
Maybe, possibly there's also the

1924
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:22,880
matter of the child of Alice 
Rivers and Amund, who was put 

1925
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:25,280
forth as a claimant, possibly as
a pretender. 

1926
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:27,640
Yeah, as a pretender. 
But we don't know what happened 

1927
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:31,240
with that either 'cause this is 
also in that same time frame of 

1928
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:35,200
where Fire and Blood 1 ends and 
where we have some missing data 

1929
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,440
for now. 
But definitely she and that boy 

1930
01:38:38,440 --> 01:38:40,240
were around in the same era and 
we don't know what happened to 

1931
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:43,280
them. 
Meanwhile, on the Iron Isles, 

1932
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:46,680
another example comes to us from
this era quote. 

1933
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:52,280
In the Iron Islands a savage 
struggle for power followed upon

1934
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:56,880
the death of the Red Kraken. 
His three sisters and the men 

1935
01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:01,600
they had married seized Toron 
Greyjoy, the boy upon the sea 

1936
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:06,280
stone chair, and put his mother 
to death, whilst his cousins 

1937
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:10,960
joined with the Lords of 
Harlaugh and Black Tide to raise

1938
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:15,600
up Toron's half brother Roderick
and the man of Great Wick 

1939
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:21,440
rallied to a pretender called 
Sam Salt, who claimed to be 

1940
01:39:21,440 --> 01:39:25,440
descended of the Black Line. 
The black line, of course is the

1941
01:39:25,440 --> 01:39:29,240
line of Heron Heron, the Black, 
Harwin, Hardhan, all those the 

1942
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:34,240
the Hor dynasty Hoare. 
The Lannisters actually invaded 

1943
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:38,040
during this chaos and one of 
the, one of the Lannister 

1944
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:40,320
vassals tried to actually seize 
the sea stone chair. 

1945
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:43,440
And so he was sort of a 
pretender to the sea stone 

1946
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:45,800
chair, but he didn't hold that. 
He lost it quickly. 

1947
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:50,320
The Lannisters also during this 
invasion, this, this claim that 

1948
01:39:50,320 --> 01:39:53,800
wasn't part of the the plan. 
They were just trying to stop 

1949
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:58,680
the uprising and settle the Iron
Islands and get revenge on what 

1950
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:02,600
they had done during Dalton 
Greyjoy's depredations during 

1951
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:06,040
the Dance. 
He certainly did a lot of damage

1952
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:08,320
to the West Coast and to the 
Lannisters and their vassals. 

1953
01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:10,360
So they were keen on revenge 
here. 

1954
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:12,160
We don't know what happened to 
Sam Salt. 

1955
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,440
He was presumably killed because
he was captured during this 

1956
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:18,240
Lannister invasion. 
It was very easy for them to 

1957
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:21,920
invade because the Iron Aisles 
were fighting each other and 

1958
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:24,320
they they were also dealing with
a power vacuum after the death 

1959
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:27,320
of the Red Kraken. 
And of course, soon enough the 

1960
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:30,840
Iron Throne brought the Iron 
Aisles back in under their 

1961
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:36,120
auspices and things died back 
down to normal for the Iron 

1962
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:42,120
Aisles. 
Here's a little an example a 

1963
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:47,320
little farther off the beaten 
path that is historical, but is 

1964
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:50,840
a comparison slash parallel to 
the Blacks and Greens and 

1965
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:53,560
involves our earlier touched on 
subject of historical 

1966
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:55,600
revisionism. 
This one also comes to us from 

1967
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:57,040
Matt Reeves. 
Thanks, Matt. 

1968
01:40:57,440 --> 01:41:02,360
In the 14th century, 2 lines of 
the Imperial clan in Japan 

1969
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:07,000
claimed the throne, the Northern
Court and the Southern Court. 

1970
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:11,480
Their rivalry was was resolved 
in 1392, so only about 60 years 

1971
01:41:11,480 --> 01:41:13,000
before the beginning of the Wars
of the Roses. 

1972
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:16,000
So similar time frame here. 
This would be during the 100 

1973
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:18,320
Years War. 
Then by that same reckoning, 

1974
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:22,320
every Emperor of the Southern 
Court enthroned prior to 1392 

1975
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:25,320
was established as legitimate 
and the throne was determined by

1976
01:41:25,480 --> 01:41:28,080
Emperor Gokomatsu of the 
Northern Court and his 

1977
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:35,280
successors since 1911. 
More than 500 years later, the 

1978
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:38,560
Japanese government 
retroactively declared the 

1979
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:41,720
southern claimants were actually
the rightful emperors, despite 

1980
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:45,120
the fact that all subsequent 
emperors, including the emperor 

1981
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:48,160
of the time, were northern court
descendants. 

1982
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:52,920
So the reasoning here was that 
the southern court retained 

1983
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:55,720
possession of the three sacred 
treasures, which are very 

1984
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:59,000
important symbols of rule in 
Japan for the for the imperial 

1985
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:02,240
court there. 
So this they converted the 

1986
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:04,920
emperors of the northern former 
northern court into pretenders. 

1987
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:10,360
So like 500 years of reversing 
these guys status, six former 

1988
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:12,280
northern emperors are now 
pretenders in history. 

1989
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:15,120
Now this is very much like how 
Rainier was like written out of 

1990
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:16,360
it. 
Like you can see this happen. 

1991
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:22,920
They wrote her out right away. 
This happened 519 years later or

1992
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:24,920
21 year. 
Yeah, 519 years later. 

1993
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:27,840
They changed history to change 
who the pretenders were and who 

1994
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:29,600
the legit were. 
It's it's wild, right? 

1995
01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:33,800
But you can, the words do have 
power like the swords and 

1996
01:42:33,800 --> 01:42:35,800
Dragons, don't they? 
Sometimes they take a little 

1997
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:40,560
longer to take root or to make 
their power felt. 

1998
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:44,280
But yeah, that's pretty crazy 
that they just changed that. 

1999
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:47,640
Like the present Japanese family
is descended from Northern court

2000
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:51,720
emperors, even though the 
Southern court is the one that 

2001
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:56,760
was made the legitimate 1. 
So it's all very strange to me. 

2002
01:42:57,200 --> 01:42:59,640
Probably beggars further reading
on my part. 

2003
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:01,760
I'm curious. 
Thanks Matt for bringing this to

2004
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:03,480
my attention so I can look into 
it more. 

2005
01:43:03,480 --> 01:43:05,600
I love stories like that. 
History is fun. 

2006
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:10,640
Our quote of the week. 
This one comes from Madeline 

2007
01:43:10,640 --> 01:43:13,880
Miller's Cersei, a book I 
really, really loved. 

2008
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:18,760
The book is from Cersei's POV. 
This is Circe, as in the 

2009
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:23,280
daughter of Helios and the 
Oceanid, which is a nymph, a sea

2010
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:24,960
nymph, an ocean nymph called Per
SE. 

2011
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:29,640
So this quote is from the time 
that Odysseus was on her island.

2012
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:32,800
Remember, in the traditional 
myth, Cersei is the one that 

2013
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:35,200
turns most of his crew into 
pigs. 

2014
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,080
He spent his days working on the
ship. 

2015
01:43:38,480 --> 01:43:41,520
In the evenings we would sit 
before the hearth while the men 

2016
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:43,720
ate their suppers, and at night 
he came to my bed. 

2017
01:43:44,280 --> 01:43:47,080
His shoulders were thick, carved
from his warrior hours. 

2018
01:43:47,480 --> 01:43:49,760
I ran my hands across his ragged
scars. 

2019
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:52,760
There were pleasures there, but 
in truth the greater pleasure 

2020
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:55,720
was after, when we lay together 
in the darkness and he told me 

2021
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:59,680
stories of Troy conjuring the 
war for me, spear by spear. 

2022
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:04,120
Proud Agamemnon, leader of the 
host, brittle as badly tempered 

2023
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:06,600
iron. 
Menelaus, his brother, whose 

2024
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:08,680
wife Helen's abduction had begun
the war. 

2025
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:12,400
Brave, dull brained Ajax built 
like a mountainside. 

2026
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:15,080
Diomedes. 
Odysseus is ruthless, right 

2027
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:19,120
hand, and then the Trojans 
handsome Paris, laughing thief 

2028
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:21,480
of Helen's heart. 
His father, white bearded. 

2029
01:44:21,480 --> 01:44:24,920
Priam, king of Troy, beloved by 
the gods for his gentleness. 

2030
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:28,640
Hacuba, his queen with a 
warrior's spirit whose womb had 

2031
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:33,320
borne so many noble fruits. 
Hector, her eldest noble air and

2032
01:44:33,320 --> 01:44:35,480
bulwark to his great walled 
city. 

2033
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:40,120
And Odysseus, I thought, the 
spiral shell always another 

2034
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:43,480
curve out of sight. 
I began to see what he'd meant 

2035
01:44:43,480 --> 01:44:45,720
when he had talked of his army's
weakness. 

2036
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:49,320
It was not their sinews that had
wavered, but their discipline. 

2037
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:53,200
There had never been a parade of
prouder men, more fractious and 

2038
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:57,120
unyielding, each certain the war
would fail without them. 

2039
01:44:58,120 --> 01:44:59,920
Madeline Miller's extremely 
talented. 

2040
01:44:59,920 --> 01:45:02,240
Her prose is the kind that 
sometimes I just, I just had to,

2041
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:04,560
like, reread what I just read. 
Like, what? 

2042
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:07,120
That was so good, I got to read 
that again. 

2043
01:45:07,240 --> 01:45:09,720
You know, that quote reminds me 
of the one about Stannis, Robert

2044
01:45:09,720 --> 01:45:11,560
and Renly. 
That's pretty good. 

2045
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:12,360
You're right. 
Yeah. 

2046
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:14,120
From the blacksmith, yeah. 
Yeah, totally. 

2047
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:16,040
Where they talk about, you know,
iron and. 

2048
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:18,640
The shiny, the true steel and 
the yeah, you're right, That's a

2049
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:20,800
good one. 
So but also beware. 

2050
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,400
Her books are sad. 
She is incredible, for example, 

2051
01:45:24,400 --> 01:45:27,640
at writing loneliness. 
This book is Cersei is lonely 

2052
01:45:27,640 --> 01:45:32,120
and she writes it so well. 
It is, It is not the easiest 

2053
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:34,400
read, but it's such all in some 
ways it is an easy read because 

2054
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:36,320
it's so good, but in other ways 
it's like, whoa, this is heavy. 

2055
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:41,320
HBO had picked this up to make 
into a show, but I don't think 

2056
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:43,240
it's still under development. 
I think they dropped it and 

2057
01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:45,520
maybe it'll get unshelved. 
Maybe it's just on the shelf, 

2058
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:46,880
maybe it's not permanently 
dropped. 

2059
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:48,720
Hopefully it comes back. 
Hopefully they make it into a 

2060
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:51,000
show and hopefully it's good. 
She also wrote a great book 

2061
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,920
called Song of Achilles, which 
is also really, really freaking 

2062
01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:55,440
good. 
So check those out if you 

2063
01:45:55,440 --> 01:45:57,240
haven't. 
You can get them on go to our 

2064
01:45:57,240 --> 01:45:59,080
website. 
You can get them through Amazon 

2065
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:00,920
through our links there, or 
Audible if you want to listen to

2066
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:03,160
them on audiobook. 
History of westeros.com, 

2067
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:07,280
Blackfire Rebellions and 
Jacobite Risings. 

2068
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:10,520
Now, we mentioned Aegon off and 
on throughout this episode. 

2069
01:46:10,520 --> 01:46:12,600
Aegon the 6th, a possible 
Blackfire descendant, a 

2070
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:13,800
pretender. 
Either way, as we said, 'cause 

2071
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,400
he's trying to claim the throne,
potentially an imposter. 

2072
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:18,880
Let's look at a strong IRL 
parallel for him. 

2073
01:46:19,440 --> 01:46:23,080
James the second of England and 
Ireland and James the 7th of 

2074
01:46:23,080 --> 01:46:25,400
Scotland. 
Same person has different titles

2075
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:28,760
for different Thrones. 
He was the last Catholic monarch

2076
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:31,400
of all three of those countries,
England, Ireland and Scotland of

2077
01:46:31,400 --> 01:46:32,320
course. 
It's all under 1 crown. 

2078
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:36,880
He was deposed in 1688 in what 
was called the Glorious 

2079
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,320
Revolution. 
Now interestingly, part of the 

2080
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:42,280
reason for his removal was they 
were trying to prevent a civil 

2081
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:46,120
war, which they didn't. 
It still happened, but sort of 

2082
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:48,480
because maybe this wasn't a 
civil maybe, maybe it was just 

2083
01:46:48,480 --> 01:46:50,640
like a civil conflict. 
It didn't maybe devolve into war

2084
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:53,480
semantics. 
But the reason they were so keen

2085
01:46:53,480 --> 01:46:56,760
on avoiding this or so worried 
about it was because the first 

2086
01:46:56,760 --> 01:46:58,240
English Civil War, that's the 
official name. 

2087
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:00,960
First English Civil War had had 
only been about 40 years before 

2088
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:03,520
this, so there was still a lot 
of like, let's not do that 

2089
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:04,480
again. 
It was too recent. 

2090
01:47:04,480 --> 01:47:06,240
A lot of people who lived 
through it were still alive. 

2091
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:11,440
So James had an army, but they 
deserted him and he fled into 

2092
01:47:11,440 --> 01:47:14,840
exile. 
He returned again in 1690, but 

2093
01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:18,280
he was defeated and he fled, 
went into exile in France, where

2094
01:47:18,280 --> 01:47:20,880
he eventually died. 
What that meant was that the 

2095
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:23,680
Hanoverian succession would 
prevail over the Jacobite 

2096
01:47:23,680 --> 01:47:25,720
succession. 
Hanoverian succession was the 

2097
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:29,200
the rulers who won and they 
represented Protestantism at the

2098
01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:32,400
time. 
And the Jacobites were Catholic 

2099
01:47:33,040 --> 01:47:37,600
and that was the main dispute 
here, Catholic, first 

2100
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:41,760
Protestant. 
And the Jacobites were the ones 

2101
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:43,440
who thought the Stewart should 
be kings. 

2102
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:45,640
This, this James Stewart, that 
was who he was. 

2103
01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:49,520
And the Hanover, the Hanoverians
were the ones who thought, no, 

2104
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:52,640
it should be the Hanoverian that
them they should be the 

2105
01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:55,840
Protestant kings. 
So you could say the real life 

2106
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:59,280
version here would be like in 
Westeros if the Black fires had 

2107
01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:04,080
actually won, but the Targaryens
weren't eliminated and instead 

2108
01:48:04,200 --> 01:48:07,320
they spent years trying to get 
it back but never did. 

2109
01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:10,960
So that's a missing angle for 
Westeros is the religious part, 

2110
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:13,160
like the Catholic Protestant. 
That's not a real parallel for 

2111
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:16,480
tarred versus black fire. 
It got pretty bitter, but not as

2112
01:48:16,480 --> 01:48:22,040
potent or as or or as 
ideological as Catholic versus 

2113
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:24,360
Protestant. 
Red versus black wasn't quite as

2114
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:27,040
you know. 
It wasn't quite as bitter or as 

2115
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:31,600
deeply held, but even after 
James the second slash James the

2116
01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:36,200
7th died, several of his 
descendants and others continue 

2117
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:39,520
to keep the dream and their 
claims and their status as 

2118
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:43,000
pretenders alive. 
So his son was another. 

2119
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:48,120
James had this status for so 
long he became known as the Old 

2120
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:52,560
Pretender and his son Charles 
the Young Pretender. 

2121
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:55,320
So there was an old James the 
Old Pretender and Charles the 

2122
01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:58,520
Young Pretender who were 
descendants of James the second 

2123
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:01,240
slash James the 7th. 
So they weren't just trying to 

2124
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:04,720
overthrow the Hanoverian kings, 
they were trying to overthrow 

2125
01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:09,720
Parliament because it was 
Parliament that changed the 

2126
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:13,120
rules. 
They were like, Nope, divine 

2127
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:14,760
right of kings isn't the same 
anymore. 

2128
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:17,040
We're changing the rules for 
divine right of kings and we're 

2129
01:49:17,040 --> 01:49:20,280
changing the way monarchy works.
We're not going with birth. 

2130
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:24,160
We're going with, well, choice 
right there. 

2131
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:26,040
There's parliamentary choice 
really. 

2132
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:28,520
So it's like this, these are the
two disputes. 

2133
01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:31,600
It's like besides Catholic and 
Protestant, there's also the how

2134
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:33,760
we choose kings and what what 
the basis of it is. 

2135
01:49:33,760 --> 01:49:37,720
This is a big root cause dispute
and that's why there's still 

2136
01:49:37,720 --> 01:49:41,160
people even today. 
There was a Neo Jacobite revival

2137
01:49:41,160 --> 01:49:45,000
around 1890. 
Again, because of the deeply 

2138
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:46,840
held religious beliefs and play 
here. 

2139
01:49:47,080 --> 01:49:50,280
They're like, no, go back 300 
years. 

2140
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:52,560
It should have been this guy. 
And then since it was should 

2141
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:54,000
have been that guy. 
That means it should have gone 

2142
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:56,600
through all his descending 
instead of all of them, right? 

2143
01:49:56,600 --> 01:49:59,600
So this, this dispute, it's not 
really happening anymore, but 

2144
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:01,320
there still are people who think
it that way. 

2145
01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:03,400
There's not like a powerful 
movement, but there are still 

2146
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:08,160
people to this day that insist 
that it should be the the Stuart

2147
01:50:08,160 --> 01:50:10,640
kings, even though the Stuarts, 
they're extinct. 

2148
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:13,600
I mean, in that name, there's 
obviously descendants of them 

2149
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:16,160
that have other last names. 
Now there's not really a 

2150
01:50:16,160 --> 01:50:18,840
parallel to the trying to 
overthrow Parliament because 

2151
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:21,520
Parliament, there's not really 
an analog to Parliament in 

2152
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:23,440
Westeros. 
It would the closest thing they 

2153
01:50:23,440 --> 01:50:25,840
could maybe come up with is if 
there was a war fought to 

2154
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:28,040
overthrow the doctrine of 
exceptionalism because they were

2155
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:31,800
trying to change the way that 
kings and the kings were viewed 

2156
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:36,800
and what laws surrounded the 
choosing of kings, which is part

2157
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:38,320
of the doctrine of 
exceptionalism, saying hey, 

2158
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:40,200
Targaryens are special, we're 
better, we're different. 

2159
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:42,520
Also similar to the Blackfyre 
rebellions. 

2160
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:43,840
And this is one of the things 
that make it. 

2161
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:46,160
It isn't just that they fled 
overseas and had they were 

2162
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:48,720
pretenders for so long, the king
over the water, that kind of 

2163
01:50:48,720 --> 01:50:51,560
business, which is what they 
called some of the black fires. 

2164
01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:55,000
It's because there were four 
different uprising slash 

2165
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:59,120
campaigns in addition to some 
sort of minor little movements 

2166
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:02,240
that never reached the status 
of, of wars or uprising like 

2167
01:51:02,240 --> 01:51:05,200
that Neo Jacobite revival in 
1890. 

2168
01:51:05,480 --> 01:51:09,720
But in 1689 there was a campaign
again of of the Jacobites 

2169
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:13,720
against England to take the 
throne again in 1715, again in 

2170
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:19,400
1719 and then again in 174526 
years later, Right. 

2171
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:23,280
So I've definitely seen people 
look at the Black Fire 

2172
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:25,880
rebellions under George's 
writing and say this is 

2173
01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:29,160
unrealistic, there's no way this
beaten dynasty would still be 

2174
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:34,520
taking stabs 30 years later. 
Well, real life says otherwise. 

2175
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:36,920
We've got more than 30 years 
apart. 

2176
01:51:37,480 --> 01:51:40,240
This is a wider range of time 
than the Black Fire rebellions 

2177
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:43,280
were apparent or present. 
Roughly I guess if you count 

2178
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:45,080
melees, which wasn't a Black 
Fire rebellion. 

2179
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:49,320
That was 70 years later or 65 
years later, which is similar to

2180
01:51:49,320 --> 01:51:51,360
this. 
So anyway, the point, the point 

2181
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:55,320
stands regardless. 
And of course, what did we say? 

2182
01:51:55,320 --> 01:51:58,600
If you're invading England, who 
do you get on your side? 

2183
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:00,720
France. 
Now France was very Catholic, so

2184
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:04,320
they were even more excited and 
willing to be on the side. 

2185
01:52:04,440 --> 01:52:06,680
And that's why he was hiding in 
France in the 1st place as exile

2186
01:52:06,680 --> 01:52:09,280
was to France 'cause they were 
like, yeah, you're one of us. 

2187
01:52:09,880 --> 01:52:14,240
But this time, since it wasn't 
just anti England, it was anti 

2188
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:18,720
Protestant, you got Spain and 
the the papacy, of course, the 

2189
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:21,760
papacy is number one on the list
of get those Protestants. 

2190
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:25,520
Well, or rather convert those 
Protestants, one or the other 

2191
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:27,120
one. 
Either convert them or get them 

2192
01:52:27,120 --> 01:52:28,920
one way or the other. 
And Spain, of course, is all 

2193
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:30,600
about that too. 
Super Catholic country. 

2194
01:52:31,200 --> 01:52:34,880
Yeah. 
So making a claim to a great 

2195
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:36,800
council, as I said before, I 
want to make sure that's clear 

2196
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:38,760
here. 
That counts as being a pretender

2197
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:40,960
too. 
So Amy's black fire counted even

2198
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:44,160
and he was called a pretender 
even in the in the text of fire 

2199
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:47,240
and blood or, or, or what of ice
and fire actually, yeah, or of 

2200
01:52:47,240 --> 01:52:49,880
ice and fire. 
So again, Parliament had a lot 

2201
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:52,880
to do with the legalities here. 
And that's a kind of a a side 

2202
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:54,360
topic. 
Just an interesting point of 

2203
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:58,240
interest that you have a ruling 
body that decides what 

2204
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:00,480
determines a king. 
I mean, if you think back, 

2205
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:03,080
somebody had to decide that in 
the 1st place, somebody had to 

2206
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:08,200
say the, the heir of the king is
the first born son or in 

2207
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:11,560
different countries, the last 
born son or the first born 

2208
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:18,240
person or just I get to pick. 
So it's a reminder that, yeah, 

2209
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:20,920
Parliament changed this, some 
other people changed this. 

2210
01:53:21,440 --> 01:53:23,800
Well, someone started it in the 
first place. 

2211
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:26,800
It's not, it may have been a 
change from before that, you 

2212
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:28,240
know, before there was even 
monarchy. 

2213
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:31,960
So we always have to remember 
that humans are always making 

2214
01:53:31,960 --> 01:53:33,360
these things up in the 1st 
place. 

2215
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:36,040
Like it's like George, it's like
what George said about world 

2216
01:53:36,040 --> 01:53:37,920
building and Canon. 
It's like we're making all this 

2217
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:40,120
up. 
All this is made-up. 

2218
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:43,880
All these are cultural 
creations, the titles, the 

2219
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:46,600
decisions on who rules, who gets
to be what. 

2220
01:53:47,160 --> 01:53:51,280
We make it all up. 
And that's that's a good place 

2221
01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:53,240
to leave it. 
We couldn't cover every case of 

2222
01:53:53,240 --> 01:53:54,880
a pretender even in Westeros 
history. 

2223
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:56,720
It would be a bit too much to 
simply list them all off. 

2224
01:53:56,720 --> 01:53:58,440
That would be kind of bored if I
just listed them that I'd be 

2225
01:53:58,440 --> 01:53:59,840
like, yeah, that's not very 
exciting. 

2226
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,400
Rickon Stark could be a 
pretender to the seat of 

2227
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:04,080
Winterfell, right? 
We could call all the various 

2228
01:54:04,080 --> 01:54:06,720
Bolton attempts to overthrow the
Starks in the in the long past 

2229
01:54:06,720 --> 01:54:11,320
and currently as pretending 
pretenders to Winterfell, but we

2230
01:54:11,320 --> 01:54:12,680
were mostly focused on royal 
titles. 

2231
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:16,880
Today, if you go back before the
Iron Throne, well, there would 

2232
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:20,640
be a lot more royal titles. 
There were 7 kingdoms plus other

2233
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:22,240
times when they were more than 7
kingdoms. 

2234
01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:24,640
So there would have been a lot 
of pretenders to a lot of those 

2235
01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:26,600
Thrones that we just don't have 
names for. 

2236
01:54:26,920 --> 01:54:30,320
But certainly it happened. 
Truly, there are endless stories

2237
01:54:30,320 --> 01:54:33,360
of both impersonations and 
pretenders in the real world. 

2238
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:36,400
And some of those again, some of
those that escaped our notice 

2239
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:39,480
might serve as great parallels 
to some of what George has 

2240
01:54:39,680 --> 01:54:41,600
created and that we haven't had 
yet, right? 

2241
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:45,160
Like there's two sides of this. 
One is there might be 

2242
01:54:45,160 --> 01:54:48,720
inspirations out there that I 
missed that that our that y'all 

2243
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:51,480
missed that you that I didn't 
cover that Ishay and I didn't 

2244
01:54:51,480 --> 01:54:53,800
put in here, right? 
You might find one and be like, 

2245
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,040
hey, guys, look, this is one 
that this is probably a peril. 

2246
01:54:56,040 --> 01:54:57,280
This might be an inspiration to 
George. 

2247
01:54:57,280 --> 01:55:00,600
I encourage you to send those to
us because it's such a vast 

2248
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:01,880
topic. 
There's no way we could get it 

2249
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:03,640
all. 
And on the other side of this, 

2250
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:08,040
as we said about Aegon and 
Danny, in some of these other 

2251
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:10,240
situations, it's not resolved 
yet. 

2252
01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:12,320
We have yet to see exactly 
what's going to happen. 

2253
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:16,320
And in the process of seeing 
those get resolved, we might be 

2254
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:20,840
able to and are likely to see 
more historical parallels as 

2255
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:23,520
these things play out. 
We'll be like, oh, Aegon in this

2256
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:25,720
with John Cunning, that's kind 
of like that thing that happened

2257
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:28,280
in France or that thing that 
happened with the Jacobites or 

2258
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:31,360
whatever. 
So there's more to come when 

2259
01:55:32,040 --> 01:55:35,880
more comes. 
You know, it's funny, all the 

2260
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:39,160
Stark kids are technically 
pretenders, but not in the way 

2261
01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:39,960
you mean. 
Really. 

2262
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:41,760
Yeah, yeah. 
Because there is going to be a 

2263
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:43,640
stark succession crisis. 
We've talked about that a lot 

2264
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:44,520
and it yeah. 
So it's like. 

2265
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:48,360
Well, in that way, but I also 
mean they all are pretending to 

2266
01:55:48,400 --> 01:55:51,240
be other people. 
Oh yes, so hence is pretending 

2267
01:55:51,240 --> 01:55:52,920
to be Elaine. 
Ari has got a whole lot of 

2268
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:54,840
identities. 
John Master, pretend to be a 

2269
01:55:54,840 --> 01:55:56,760
traitor. 
Jonathan trying to be alive, you

2270
01:55:56,760 --> 01:55:58,080
know, and alive. 
Yeah, a few. 

2271
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:00,360
Things, you know, they all 
pretend in different ways. 

2272
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:02,680
They also, we all have, we have 
that flashback where they're all

2273
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:04,880
pretending down in the crypts. 
Oh yeah. 

2274
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:07,720
Anyways, but not not the type of
pretenders we need. 

2275
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:10,640
Nope, got 1. 
So a question here. 

2276
01:56:10,640 --> 01:56:13,960
Dornus Dame says I wonder if the
mother pretended Gaiman wasn't 

2277
01:56:13,960 --> 01:56:16,600
Aegons and confessed only in 
part to save her son. 

2278
01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:24,560
Maybe as in she really believed 
sincerely that her son Gaiman 

2279
01:56:24,560 --> 01:56:28,200
pale hair was Aegons, but in 
order to save his life she lied.

2280
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:30,160
Makes sense. 
And that's something a mother 

2281
01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:32,480
would do, or a father. 
And Ned pretended John is not 

2282
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:34,720
Rhaegar's, just pretends it's 
his reverse, saying, yeah, this 

2283
01:56:34,720 --> 01:56:36,040
is my kid. 
Yeah. 

2284
01:56:36,640 --> 01:56:38,240
To save. 
That's a great take, Darnish 

2285
01:56:38,240 --> 01:56:39,360
Dame. 
Excellent one. 

2286
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:40,640
I like that. 
Yeah. 

2287
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:42,080
It's something a mother would 
do. 

2288
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:45,640
And it's it's. 
Yeah, it's a viable theory for 

2289
01:56:45,640 --> 01:56:48,160
sure. 
Trivia answer. 

2290
01:56:48,280 --> 01:56:50,480
The moon of Three Kings, which 
we could also call the anarchy 

2291
01:56:50,480 --> 01:56:54,040
of King's Landing, actually only
featured 2 kings, which of the 

2292
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:57,240
three so-called 3 kings wasn't 
actually claiming to be king. 

2293
01:56:57,840 --> 01:56:59,720
The shepherd. 
The shepherd religious leader, 

2294
01:56:59,720 --> 01:57:04,800
if you could even call him that.
Just mob mob guy, you know, a 

2295
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:08,600
mob ruler, a riot leader, riot 
specialist, I don't know, 

2296
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:11,840
definitely not a king didn't 
crown himself, but he certainly 

2297
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:13,760
got you know, you could burn at 
the stake a. 

2298
01:57:14,120 --> 01:57:16,280
Shepherd. 
Hey, there you go. 

2299
01:57:16,280 --> 01:57:17,200
He's a shepherd. 
Shepherd. 

2300
01:57:17,200 --> 01:57:19,360
A shepherd. 
Yeah, Shepherd of rioters. 

2301
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:23,600
We mentioned some other episodes
that relate to this one, such as

2302
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:25,720
The Wars of the Roses, of 
course, The Black Dinner of 

2303
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:29,120
Scotland, The Dance of the 
Dragons are long series with 

2304
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:33,680
Radio Westeros, plus the Red 
Kraken and red Kraken follow up 

2305
01:57:33,680 --> 01:57:37,120
the lioness, the seahorse and 
the. 

2306
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:38,880
Kraken. 
Kraken. 

2307
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:41,640
The Kraken, Yeah, Which is the 
Part 2 of the Red Kraken. 

2308
01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:44,680
Those are Patreon episodes. 
You can also get them on our 

2309
01:57:44,680 --> 01:57:49,040
Spotify paid feed and they were 
irrelevant here today. 

2310
01:57:49,120 --> 01:57:52,280
Also our Hour of the Wolf 
episode dealing with the fallout

2311
01:57:52,280 --> 01:57:57,000
of Kraken Stark being Hand for a
short time and taking care of 

2312
01:57:57,000 --> 01:57:59,920
people like Tristane. 
Fire was the name he was given 

2313
01:57:59,920 --> 01:58:01,280
when he was killed, not true 
fire. 

2314
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:06,520
As well as people like Laurice 
and Sir Perkin, the Flea and 

2315
01:58:06,520 --> 01:58:08,280
game and pale hair, other stuff 
like that. 

2316
01:58:08,680 --> 01:58:13,160
So that relates. 
Also thanks to Nina for her 

2317
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:15,800
advice and takes. 
She definitely knows a lot about

2318
01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:18,040
history and that is always 
valuable to me. 

2319
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:22,840
Thanks to Joey Townsend for 
composing our intro song. 

2320
01:58:23,240 --> 01:58:25,520
Thanks to Michael Klarfeld for 
our intro video. 

2321
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:29,560
You can get Michael's maps like 
this one behind me by going to 

2322
01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:34,880
his website, claradox.de 
KLARADOX link is in the 

2323
01:58:34,880 --> 01:58:37,800
description. 
You can what what people usually

2324
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:41,440
do is you order, you buy the 
file from him rather than buying

2325
01:58:41,440 --> 01:58:42,800
the whole map. 
That way you can just have it 

2326
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:44,440
printed yourself and you, you 
know, there's not all that 

2327
01:58:44,440 --> 01:58:46,520
shipping to do. 
You just take it to your Kinko's

2328
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:48,160
or your FedEx or something like 
that. 

2329
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:50,800
Well, same thing, FedEx, Kinkos,
take it to your local print shop

2330
01:58:51,360 --> 01:58:54,360
and get it all big like this. 
Good deal. 

2331
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,840
Yeah, we have ours printed on a 
on a fabric material. 

2332
01:58:57,840 --> 01:59:00,160
So really the Sky's the limit 
with that print file. 

2333
01:59:00,160 --> 01:59:02,920
You could take that file and 
print it on a shirt for 

2334
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:04,720
yourself. 
You could, you know, put a 

2335
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:07,360
banner you know it doesn't have.
To take big old flag, yeah. 

2336
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:08,960
Yeah. 
I just want to say like you have

2337
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:11,400
that file and you can print lots
of a cup for yourself. 

2338
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:12,200
I don't know. 
Yeah. 

2339
01:59:12,560 --> 01:59:14,240
Yeah, lots of options. 
Yeah, it's really, it's really 

2340
01:59:14,280 --> 01:59:17,160
good wide open. 
And finally, thanks to Aurelian 

2341
01:59:17,160 --> 01:59:20,000
Mattheus Rhesus, Lord of House 
Aurelian, ruler of Domus 

2342
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:22,600
Aurelianus and the Valley of 
Tennessee, wielder of Soul 

2343
01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:26,200
Invictus, A potentially Valyrian
seal blade keeper of the largest

2344
01:59:26,200 --> 01:59:28,920
collection of books outside the 
Citadel with the motto we 

2345
01:59:28,920 --> 01:59:31,080
restore the world. 
And thanks to everyone else who 

2346
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:34,920
supports us on Patreon or 
Spotify, where you're the reason

2347
01:59:34,920 --> 01:59:37,480
we can keep doing this. 
We we make more from y'all than 

2348
01:59:37,480 --> 01:59:40,680
we make from sponsors. 
And if y'all want us to continue

2349
01:59:40,680 --> 01:59:44,600
doing episodes like this, which 
frankly are a lot of y'all love,

2350
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:46,360
but we get fewer downloads on 
so. 

2351
01:59:46,360 --> 01:59:49,280
But we want to make episodes 
like this because they're fun, 

2352
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:51,880
but they have to be viable for 
us because we do this as a 

2353
01:59:51,880 --> 01:59:54,160
living. 
So please support us if you can 

2354
01:59:54,240 --> 01:59:57,160
spread the word. 
And TuneIn next time for more. 

2355
01:59:57,160 --> 01:59:58,640
You know what to do in the 
meantime. 

2356
01:59:59,240 --> 02:00:00,840
Valar Rereadus.