1 00:00:48,070 --> 00:00:51,110 An episode with a lot of sisters. 2 00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:54,350 Sisterly episode. The Three sisters to start 3 00:00:54,350 --> 00:00:57,550 meaning the islands north of the Vale and South of White Harbor. 4 00:00:58,030 --> 00:01:01,590 And the Two Sisters meaning Aegon's Queens, Rainies and 5 00:01:01,590 --> 00:01:05,590 Vicenya, Mighty though they are in war, and we'll see some more 6 00:01:05,590 --> 00:01:07,710 of that along with their brother. 7 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,760 But today it's time to to see how they are as rulers, at least 8 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,160 at the start of the of the post conquest era. 9 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,000 That's another way to look at this one. 10 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,000 Three Sisters and three heads of the dragon. 11 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,920 Before the 1st Dornish War began, there was 3:00-ish years 12 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,240 in which the only conflicts were small and isolated, IE most of 13 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,840 Westeros was at peace and adjusting to this brave new 14 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,800 world of of of world ruled by Targaryens, Aegon and his 15 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,160 sisters. The Dragon's interim, we're 16 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,720 calling it simply because everything in fire and blood in 17 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,040 this section is called the Dragon's something or other. 18 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,760 The Dragon's reign, the Dragon's peace, the Dragon's wars. 19 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:54,160 So why not the Dragon's interim? The Conquest was almost easy, as 20 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,720 you probably recall, at least in terms of the battles, and in 21 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,920 many ways those who had not fought back would be the hardest 22 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,240 to deal with, even though many if not most of those opposed to 23 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,760 the Iron Throne had been turned to ash. 24 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,080 Literally in many cases, the difficulties of ruling A realm 25 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,040 that has never been ruled as one or nearly one, we should say 26 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:18,200 this is all untrodden ground. It's it never been done before. 27 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,880 It's not a simple matter of just killing all your enemies, 28 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,280 although Aegon had proven pretty expert at that. 29 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,120 It's not exactly a way to rule a realm. 30 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:33,280 It's a good way to get in charge, but you have to manage 31 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,240 what comes after that. Many of the greatest real world 32 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,120 conquerors were not particularly skilled at the post conquest 33 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,800 stuff. So this is the brief time where 34 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,160 Aegon, Visenia, and Rainey's began to prove that they were 35 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,720 more than just dragon riders, while making sure to continue to 36 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,800 remind people that they were dragon riders. 37 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,120 All that and more on this episode of History of Westeros 38 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,400 podcast. Hello and welcome everybody. 39 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,720 We're back with another episode. This is the first recorded 40 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,240 episode of 2024. It's not the first episode that 41 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,680 we drop in 2024, but the first one that's live recording during 42 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,600 this new year. So we're excited to start 43 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,360 another year of excellent fun delving deep into Westeros, 44 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Essos and all of George R Martin's creations. 45 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,160 When we do live streams on Sunday, they're at 3:00 Eastern. 46 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,640 That's when most of our live streams occur afterwards. 47 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:30,760 Every video is on YouTube and Spotify, and every episode is an 48 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,680 audio only form available anywhere you find podcasts. 49 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,360 And it's ad free if you listen on Patreon or if you subscribe 50 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,400 through Spotify. A lot of the episodes can be 51 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,200 found with ad free versions as well. 52 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,120 Now our topics Moot is coming. Speaking of Patreon, it's going 53 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,720 to run through the end of January the 28th it starts, and 54 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,760 through the 23rd of February. We'll be choosing 12 topics that 55 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,560 will get made this year and we expect this to be a yearly 56 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,640 thing. So if you're hearing this in the 57 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:07,160 future sometime beyond 2024, well be on the lookout for this 58 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,520 current year's topics Moot. Whatever year you're hearing 59 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,520 this, we expect it to be a fun recurring thing. 60 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,600 Sean, how you doing today? Welcome to 2024. 61 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,200 We didn't have you in our last episode, so it's been a little 62 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,240 while. And how's it going? 63 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,080 I feel like we're already in the future 2024. 64 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,440 I mean that's something that we would make up as a a future date 65 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,440 to. For off. 2010. 66 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,280 Yeah, 2. 1024. I think this was the year that 67 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:39,840 something big happened in one of the movies. 20. 68 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,320 I know like last year it was like or the year before it was 69 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,080 like the year that Back to the Future two like came true or 70 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,440 whatever. I forget what movie it was this 71 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:48,560 year. There's a big one that's like 72 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,120 2024. Something happened, like maybe 73 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,680 one of the Star Trek. Oh, I think it was Star Trek 2 74 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,680 or Star Trek three. One of those. 75 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,600 Yeah, With the whales. Yeah, I think that. 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,760 I think they referred to 2024 and that one. 77 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,320 So, yeah, that's that's one way to feel older is to achieve the 78 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,400 year in a movie that they thought was like, so far-flung 79 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,240 like, oh, that's so far in the future. 80 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,200 People, people won't even be be aware of this movie by then. 81 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,440 Well, they were wrong about that. 82 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,240 What are you drinking? Today I've got a mixed. 83 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,160 It's starting to become standard now. 84 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:25,720 I've got the green Naked drink, the bolthouse protein drink, the 85 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,720 pineapple, coconut, sparkling ice and magic mine. 86 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,240 All. Stirred together, it's kind of 87 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,000 creamy. It looks like it has layers. 88 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,320 There's like 3 or 4 distinct shades of green in that 89 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,160 beverage. Shades of green. 90 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,640 Cool band name, yeah. That's right, it's not easy 91 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,920 being shades of green. So shout out to our good friend 92 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,040 Nina, Good queen allie.tumblr.com. 93 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,760 Her notes are in this episode, as you might suspect, because 94 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,760 they're in almost every episode. Her latest blog post, Witch pre 95 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,480 slash post Conquest events and in series events would be 96 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,600 popular plays slash operas in either of the Seven Kingdoms or 97 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Essos. It's not a a thing that's wildly 98 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,120 or deeply delved into in the books, though it certainly comes 99 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,960 up especially in Bravos, what kind of plays and you know stage 100 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,640 productions happen. Obviously there's the puppet 101 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,040 show in the Hedge Night, so that's something, but there's 102 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,800 there's room to imagine a lot more like which historical 103 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,520 events would be done and how they'd be performed. 104 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,480 So it's a fun little rabbit hole of of imagining and topics, and 105 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,160 Nina writes a good several paragraphs on on on some stuff 106 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,440 here that I find very insightful and some good choices, so check 107 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,720 that out if you are so inclined. I really like that thought. 108 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,720 I never thought about it before. But just like, you know, nobles, 109 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,360 European nobles would have artists. 110 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,680 You know, Caravaggio, whoever they want to see paintings of 111 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,680 scenes from the Bible. You can imagine, you know, some 112 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,000 king would have wanted to see scenes from the. 113 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,840 Yeah, yeah, right. Or or some ancient stuff. 114 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:05,320 I mean, and Westeros has such a long history. 115 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,840 And Essos too, like that's something that's like weird to 116 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,880 compare to the real world. Like there's they almost have 117 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,720 more material in some ways. Yeah. 118 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,640 So questions, if you have them, certainly you can send them live 119 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,640 if you're here during the live stream. 120 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,280 And you can always send them to westeroshistory@gmail.com or 121 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,920 interact with us on one of the many social media platforms. 122 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,520 We're pretty much everywhere these days. 123 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,440 If you're on a social media platform, search for Westeros 124 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,320 history and you'll probably find us. 125 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,560 And at the end of this episode, I'll mention some other topics 126 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,920 that exist as episodes that we've made in the past that 127 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,840 relate to things that we discussed in this one, as well 128 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,240 as the answer to this trivia question. 129 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,840 Whose idea was it to form the office of Grand Maester? 130 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,640 Bonus if you can name the year it was created. 131 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,280 The answers to both halves of that question are in this 132 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,200 episode, if you didn't know it already, but if you don't, I'll 133 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,960 tell you at the end. So this is the beginning of the 134 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,640 post conquest era, with such topics as what I described for 135 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,160 this one in the beginning. Plus marriages, questions of 136 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,600 succession, ruling policies, other changes to the realm. 137 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Then the first Ornish war, which is arguably a lot more 138 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,360 interesting than the conquest itself, because it was actually 139 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,280 a challenge and the mysterious ending to it. 140 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,440 That via letter that upset and confused both Aegon and the 141 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,480 fandom. Which we're we're, we're really 142 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,120 interested in that. We don't have, of course, the 143 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,520 answer to that mystery, but we have some great guesses and we'd 144 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,679 love to delve into that. So that's coming fairly soon. 145 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,799 And of course, the rest of the Conqueror's reign, longer looks 146 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,840 at Bissenia and Raines, the Red Keep, the birth of Anies and 147 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,920 Megor. We got a lot of fun stuff for 148 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,640 this portion of Val Arboretas, and then we'll get back to some 149 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,760 of our other topics where we've decided to delve into Valaritis 150 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,200 in chunks. Some of you asked for us to keep 151 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,880 it all at once, but we've realized that it's better to 152 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,800 jump around. We might be doing it for three 153 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,840 years if we try to do it. It's it's also fun because just 154 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,560 the way this fandom is presented, like the material 155 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:11,880 that were given by George and by the TV shows, that's how they 156 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,440 all work. They all jump around like you. 157 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,240 You never stay with one character for very long. 158 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,600 So I think it makes sense for us to do a similar thing, although 159 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,480 we'll stay in one place longer than the books and shows do. 160 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,200 We'll jump around a little more often than we did in prior Valar 161 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,960 Reed. I see what I did there, reread I 162 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,600 yeah. So we'll start with the Three 163 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,560 Sisters. This actually is a little bit 164 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,960 forward in the timeline, but only a little bit. 165 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,080 It happens during this interim period of the year one through 166 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,400 4, but it's more like the year end of the year 1 or beginning 167 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:43,880 of the year 2. But some of these things aren't 168 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,920 specifically dated. So anyway, let's start with the 169 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,440 Three Sisters quote. In The Bite, the Lords of the 170 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,360 Three Sisters had taken advantage of the chaos of Agons 171 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:02,320 conquest to declare themselves a free nation and Crown Lady Marla 172 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,720 of House Sunderland, their Queen. 173 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,600 As the air and fleet had largely been destroyed during the 174 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,600 conquest. The King commanded his Warden of 175 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,720 the North, Torin Stark of Winterfell to end the sister 176 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,880 men's rebellion, and a northern army departed from White Harbor 177 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,640 on a fleet of hired Bravosi galleys under the command of SER 178 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,160 Warwick Manderly. The hired Bravosi galleys are a 179 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,040 bit of a clue here as to maybe why the sisters thought they 180 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,080 could pull this off. Although to be honest, it's a 181 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,120 little crazy. And it it's explain, it's sort 182 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:43,400 of you get the idea that this was unusual because of how few 183 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,120 other places did anything like this. 184 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,760 They knew better than to try to think they could defeat the 185 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,520 Dragons even with or without a Navy to threaten them. 186 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,880 And the reason they may have thought a Navy wasn't around to 187 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,600 threaten them was because the Gull Town Navy smashed the 188 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,040 Valerian fleet and then was in turn incinerated by Vicenia. 189 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,800 So there wasn't a lot of available navies on the East 190 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,240 Coast. There was no Royal fleet at this 191 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,600 point. It was effectively the Valarian 192 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,920 fleet was the royal fleet, and that, like I said, it just been 193 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,840 torched and and surely wasn't rebuilt to any degree that it 194 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,040 would eventually become, say, during the Dance of the Dragons 195 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,040 when it was at its peak. So this was gotten started once 196 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,080 the conquest was beginning, once the Veil was focused on itself, 197 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,280 as in we're worried about what the Dragons are going to come do 198 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,600 to us. We're worried about Aegon and 199 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,920 his sisters. So that's when the sisters are 200 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:41,640 like, Oh well, our Liege Lord is distracted, The realm is at war, 201 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,400 Let's make our move. So Torin had to March home after 202 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,040 kneeling from kneeling to Aegon at Harrenhal. 203 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,840 And then he received this order, presumably his first order from 204 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,280 the king that was of any significance. 205 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,720 And this wouldn't have been quick, right? 206 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,040 He had to call up a fresh army. Presumably all that army had 207 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,480 gone home, the one he marched southwest. 208 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,280 A lot of them would just have to turn back around and be like, 209 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,440 hey, we were just in the field six months ago or three months 210 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:10,760 ago, now it's time to go back again. 211 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,120 And that is difficult. And of course, the hiring of a 212 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,480 fleet couldn't have happened overnight. 213 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,400 They have to go to Braavos and negotiate and get the ships 214 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,960 outfitted. None of this is quick, 215 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,640 basically. And it's not necessarily 216 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,000 something that shows approval by the Bravosi government because 217 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,720 this is Bravos. They're supposed to be against 218 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,360 Dragons and Valyrians and stuff. So the fact that they worked 219 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,920 with Aegon, it shouldn't be taken too deeply because these 220 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,200 are cell sales, they're not idealist, these aren't Bravosi 221 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,920 government ships, right. So yeah. 222 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,120 And I think, Sean, you had another take on this too as 223 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,640 well. Like, there's just the basics of 224 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,280 you know, peace is good for everyone, right? 225 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,200 Yeah, these sail ships might have wanted there to be peace as 226 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,840 much as anyone, you know, I, I depending on what the nature of 227 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,640 them were, you know, I guess if they are all just hired hands, 228 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,320 maybe they're just looking for any kind of battle. 229 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,840 But I can imagine that they might prefer for things to be 230 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,040 settled in Westeros, even if it just means that normal shipping 231 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,120 lanes go back to where they were so they can attack them like 232 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,280 pirates, you know, like they just said they'd rather 233 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,240 stability, they'd rather the status quo. 234 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,280 But it does show, I think. Nina pointed out that it shows 235 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:32,760 that Aegon had enough wherewithal to contact and pay 236 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,360 the ships. Like there's he was getting an 237 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,160 amount of stability already. Yeah, you know, I think. 238 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,040 Technically, the Manderleys hired the cell sales, but 239 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,760 regardless, it's still they did it under Aegon's order, so it's 240 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,080 still a similar thing. It's still he's still the guy in 241 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:47,920 charge, and we can't take this too far. 242 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,240 Bravos, of course, has problems with Dragons, and that might's a 243 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,480 big deal with maybe what's happening in the Song of Ice and 244 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,560 Fire. But this isn't Valyria. 245 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:57,720 It's not like Aegon was threatening to start a new 246 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,120 Valyria. There's no slavery, which was 247 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:06,680 the main issue for Braavos and, well, you know, so it's hard to 248 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:08,840 say that they would of course always be against anything the 249 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,840 Dragons are doing, and there'll be plenty of times when they 250 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,480 work together in the future. So it's not quite that simple, 251 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,000 as they're always opposed. I had one other quick thought 252 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,720 that the the sisters might not necessarily have thought they 253 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,440 could beat the Dragons. We've talked about this before. 254 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,880 Even if the Dragons can't come to their island and burn 255 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,560 everything up, OK, but you still need to have some human bodies 256 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,000 to occupy the lamp, right? And the Navy just got destroyed, 257 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,320 right? And also, Aegon doesn't seem 258 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,080 like he wants to kill everyone. He wants to be ruling them. 259 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,440 It might have been a a few factors made them think they 260 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,360 might get away with. It's like maybe they're not big 261 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,720 enough to matter to Aegon. I I don't think they really 262 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,120 thought they could beat the Dragons. 263 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,800 I think they thought they might get away with it because they're 264 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,080 not a threat. Because Akon doesn't want to 265 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,000 just kill them all. He wants to rule them and 266 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,880 there's no ships to come take over. 267 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,960 I I don't think it's completely crazy what they were doing here. 268 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,560 Yeah, and and there seems to be some sort of game, and I say 269 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,760 game in the term of Game of Thrones because there's some 270 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,440 very odd decisions made here, some some unusual things that 271 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:09,880 happen. Basically. 272 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Why is the sister Marla Sunderland? 273 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,240 Why is she the Queen when it turns out she has a brother? 274 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,080 And, you know, normally in Westeros the the men come first. 275 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,680 So something's odd about that. Not that it's a bad thing, but 276 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,200 it it, it's kind of like was did they install her as a puppet 277 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,960 ruler? Did they make her like a front 278 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,960 to take the fall, 'cause that is kind of what happened. 279 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,520 She does kind of end up taking the fall. 280 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,720 Now that's one scenario. Another scenario is that she's 281 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,160 very ambitious and she takes a position that her brother 282 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,720 wouldn't have taken because he thinks it's insane to try this. 283 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,760 That's another possibly like a Cersei, sort of, Maybe not. 284 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,760 Maybe not as like cruel and paranoid as a Cersei, but 285 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,760 ambitious and and aiming to climb the ladder in any way 286 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,800 possible and maybe not great at forethought. 287 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,080 That kind of that kind of attitude. 288 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,840 Maybe she was a great leader. Maybe she had proved herself. 289 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,640 Maybe her brother was a crappy leader and had already been put 290 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,120 to the side. You know, we don't get a lot of 291 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:14,640 details from this and it does seem on a surface like the easy 292 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,360 answer. Maybe if she was just a puppet, 293 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,600 like just an excuse for the other leaders to test and see if 294 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,960 this works, and if not, she can be the scapegoat later on. 295 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,760 But maybe she had more agency than that. 296 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,280 Maybe. Maybe there is. 297 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,600 I can imagine. I can imagine a A2 season series 298 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,920 about this whole event, you know? 299 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:33,080 Yeah. It would be pretty neat. 300 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,280 There's a lot of great parallels. 301 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,720 Intrigue and character development could come from it. 302 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,560 So there's another interesting thing to consider here is the 303 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,640 time of of year, or the season. Rather. 304 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,200 Time of year doesn't mean the same thing in Westeros as far as 305 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,800 the seasons go. I mean that it was autumn around 306 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,120 this time, and autumn is a bad time, right? 307 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,040 Autumn is stormy season. So even if they thought that 308 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,640 ships could be procured for by their enemies, they might get 309 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,720 lucky and the storms might drive them back or make it difficult 310 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,720 for them to invade. And of course they Revere storms 311 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,640 in the sisters that's it's kind of the opposite of the ironborn. 312 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:14,440 The Ironborn think the the storm God is the the Satan basically 313 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,760 their equivalent whereas the on the sisters it's like the storms 314 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,839 bring them stuff because they're wreckers and they they plunder 315 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,760 shipwrecks and it's it's a boon to them. 316 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,560 So it used to be a place of piracy and wrecking. 317 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,240 Now it's more a place of smuggling and fishing. 318 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,360 The piracy is it's difficult to be pirates in an area where 319 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:40,640 there's lots of you know up and up sailing and and militaries 320 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,280 unlike on the Dragons. Yeah, not to mention Dragons. 321 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,080 Now on the West Coast, it's a little more easy. 322 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,120 There's there's fewer navies and Ironborn are stronger. 323 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:53,520 Their culture is more about warriors than about these other 324 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,360 forms of crimes that the sister men are known for perpetrating. 325 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,760 And you can see the value immediately of House Manderly 326 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,200 and White Harbor to the North. I mean, this wasn't part of the 327 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,600 North even, you know, 600 to 1000 years earlier. 328 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,480 So if we imagine some odd scenario where the Targaryens or 329 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,640 someone had conquered Westeros much earlier and the sisters had 330 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,240 a rebellion, he wouldn't have been ordering the Northmen to do 331 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,320 something about it because they wouldn't have been equipped to 332 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,120 do it all like, well, how are we going to get there? 333 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,080 You know what? We we don't have ships. 334 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,160 What do you mean, we're the North. 335 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,000 We haven't had ships since Brandon the Burner or Brandon, 336 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,720 Brandon the Shipwright or what have you. 337 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,240 And that was who knows how long ago. 338 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:37,280 So it's interesting to see also the way the authority trickles 339 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,080 down here is the Aegon commands Torin to get this done. 340 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,400 Torin then commands White Harbor to do it. 341 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,240 It's like, all right, Aegon passed down the command, but I'm 342 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,120 I'm passing that off to you. I don't think Torin did anything 343 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:49,960 personally other than pass this command on. 344 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:55,720 So that's goes to show a few things in terms of how these 345 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,280 things work when the the warden system is activated, which I 346 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,640 guess that was the first time the warden system was activated 347 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,960 and it worked pretty well and that's makes a lot of sense to 348 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,280 this. To this day, the sisters 349 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,160 operates mostly independently, so that's maybe part of why they 350 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,640 were of that mind that they could pull this off. 351 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,200 What if the Manderleys already had a Navy, you know, would they 352 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,280 have done anything differently? Would they have not hired 353 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,400 Bravosi or? I don't know. 354 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,880 I mean, ships are very vulnerable to Dragons, so it 355 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,840 might not have made that much difference in terms of how the 356 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,560 war actually went. In fact, it wasn't really a war. 357 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,960 I mean they once they saw, they gave up pretty quickly. 358 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,800 Once they saw that, their delaying tactics or the storms 359 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,680 or all that didn't work. Secondly, a much farther back, 360 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,720 what if the Manderleys constantly remind themselves of 361 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,080 their own past and their past was in the reach? 362 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,080 So the Manderleys would have otherwise been on the field of 363 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,200 fire during the conquest. They're like, that's where we 364 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,880 would have been. We would have been baked like 365 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,400 everybody else. Remember the the Order of the 366 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,680 Green Hand was entirely wiped out, except for amongst them 367 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,240 they are now the only ones left. And they still to this day 368 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,800 consider themselves members of the Order of the Green Hand. 369 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,040 So their rough equivalent in power was House Peak. 370 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,840 You know it was the Tyrell. I mean not the Tyrells, but the 371 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,000 gardener's at the top. And then kind of a few other 372 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,280 houses like Peak and Oakhart and these guys. 373 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,920 The the Manderleys were about as high as it was, so they would 374 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,120 have probably been near the front. 375 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,800 And since the house peak suffered nearly as badly as the 376 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,600 gardeners, then the Manderleys probably would have gotten 377 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,480 cooked just as badly. So this would have been maybe a 378 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,480 time when they gave thanks for their change of locale and yet 379 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,680 more thanks to the Starks, who they Revere for allowing them to 380 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,760 join their Kingdom. To this day, of course, we saw 381 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,280 Wyman Manderle preach it to Davos and to Robert Glover about 382 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,680 how much they regard the Starks and how important it is to them, 383 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,960 to their history and to the fact that they even existed this day. 384 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,640 If they're memorializing that now, then they probably 385 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,560 memorialized it 300 years ago when it was when it really 386 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,080 mattered, when things that would have shown them, you know, would 387 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,520 have changed their outlook dramatically. 388 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,760 So good job there. Now I wonder how eager or not 389 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,160 eager the order of the Green Hand was. 390 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,280 The show itself is like where they're like, I don't know if we 391 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,920 want to be seen or maybe we're like we're the proud few left. 392 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,320 I mean it could go either way, right, Sean? 393 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,200 Like that's that's a tough one to to guess at, huh? 394 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,760 I could see a scenario where they might be looked at as 395 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,840 cowardly for not having been there with the rest, but I don't 396 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,040 know. I'd rather be a coward and be 397 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,040 alive and and and they have the chance to go prove their 398 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,760 bravery. Right now they've got a chance 399 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,240 to go into this next battle, you know, So I I don't show me the 400 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,640 person who's not a coward when a dragon is breathing fire at 401 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,280 them, right? Often those are dead people that 402 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,800 you show are shown there, yeah. But I guess maybe they there 403 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,800 could be the a fear that you know that they fought against 404 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,000 the Targaryens and so maybe they're scared the Targaryens 405 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,840 want revenge or something. I still don't. 406 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,560 I don't think that's the case though because it's not like the 407 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,000 Targaryens were set out to get the Order of the Green Hand. 408 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,120 They're trying to win this battle that the Order happened 409 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,800 to be at. And so yeah, I think I would be 410 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,120 on the proud to still be part of it side and and the Targs might 411 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,480 be happy for that too that there's one more faction they 412 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,720 can say lay claim to as an ally you know. 413 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,000 That's true, and it's not like there was some bitter long term 414 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,720 struggle between the Order of the Green Hand and the 415 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,720 Targaryens. They just took the battlefield 416 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,920 at one time, got wiped out, and then bent the knee. 417 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,480 Well, the the other guys bent the knee since they weren't 418 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,840 around anymore. So yeah, it's unlikely that the 419 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,320 that the Targaryens were offended by this, but they might 420 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,520 still have wanted to play it safe. 421 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,080 And that matters here because we see another example of a dragon 422 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,680 rider escort slash chaperone accompanying a regional army, 423 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:43,640 just like Rainey's accompanying Oris Baratheon where she's not 424 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,440 being told to do by him, but also vice versa. 425 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,560 So they're kind of like Co leaders, like no one tells the 426 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,200 queen what to do. But also Oris was in charge of 427 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,560 the army, not her, So it's a similar situation here. 428 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,640 No fighting was required, just the invasion force existing and 429 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,280 getting close. Here's the quote to bring it to 430 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,840 a close. The sight of his sails and the 431 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,600 sudden appearance of Queen Visenya and Veigar in the skies 432 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,280 above Sisterton took the heart out of the sister men. 433 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,400 They promptly deposed Queen Marla in favor of her younger 434 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,440 brother Stephen. Sunderland, renewed his fealty 435 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,320 to the Eerie, bent the knee to Queen Vesenia, and gave his sons 436 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,000 over as hostages for his good behavior, one to be fostered 437 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,080 with the Manderleys, the other with the errands. 438 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,640 His sister, the deposed Queen, was exiled and imprisoned. 439 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,360 After five years, her tongue was removed and she spent the 440 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,240 remainder of her life with the Silent sisters tending to the 441 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,240 noble dead. Weird, right? 442 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,480 That is weird. I think this argues that she was 443 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,640 the ambitious one rather than a a a Patsy scapegoat, because why 444 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,600 would they need to do this five years later? 445 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,400 If she if this, what is the scapegoat acting up? 446 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,520 You know, like what? It sounds like she was still 447 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,080 making moves or doing stuff or something that they had to five 448 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,840 years later. Yeah, like that kind of argues 449 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,280 that she was a mover, a shaker rather than a puppet. 450 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,040 That her tongue was wagging. Yeah, her tongue was exactly, 451 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,200 yeah. So the kind of thing she was 452 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,960 saying they were worried would get them all killed or start 453 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,200 trouble or we don't want the Dragons coming back here. 454 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,240 Let's stop it, lady. So yeah, that makes some sense. 455 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,800 There's. So that's kind of where I lean 456 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,120 in terms of the theory here. But, you know, we don't know for 457 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,120 sure what happens if Vicenia is like, flying over the the the 458 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,680 islands there and she sees that order of the Green Hand standard 459 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,440 and is like, didn't we wipe all of them out? 460 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,760 What are they doing here? You know, again, she's probably 461 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,000 not upset, but she might be like, wow, that's weird. 462 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,920 Didn't we win them to our side? Oh, there they are on our side. 463 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,840 Yeah, right on. Yeah. 464 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,200 She's like, well, they're definitely on our team now, so 465 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,120 it's all good. I'm going to say real quick, 466 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,920 that's the most successful use of the military. 467 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,160 This was the most successful battle of the whole conquest. 468 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:00,800 Right. Yeah. 469 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,120 No one died. One person had their tongue 470 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,280 removed five years later, and that's that's like, it may have 471 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,240 been some people that died that we didn't see, but it was pretty 472 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,640 mild, apparently. As far as wars go, yeah. 473 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,000 Although I guess you wouldn't even call it a war, a conflict, 474 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,160 an incursion. An uprising. 475 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,280 I don't know. Some of the sister men would 476 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,080 still have tales of the rape of the Three Sisters, AKA the 477 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,800 worthless war fought by the Veil in the North for possession of 478 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,320 these Isles. We've talked about that before 479 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:37,160 and it's just a bad thing. Like it was horrible, horrifying 480 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,560 and and terrifying what they did to the three Sisters. 481 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,280 There was all sorts of atrocities, so not the kind of 482 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,120 thing that's easily forgotten. And this is a good time to kind 483 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,680 of consider, well, who was in this Stark army who came over 484 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,200 with the Manderleys on those galleys? 485 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,720 Was it some of the same people? Obviously Vicena was there, but 486 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,440 were there? Were there actual Starks along 487 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,000 with the Manderleys, or did he just have the Manderleys handle 488 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,200 themselves? Were there Boltons there? 489 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,000 I mean, if Boltons came, that would scare the sister men too, 490 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,400 'cause it was. Recall there was some Belthazar 491 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,320 Bolton who made a pavilion from Flayed Sister Men, and maybe 492 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,320 that's just a story, but maybe there's a grain of truth to it. 493 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,720 Like it wasn't a whole pavilion, it was just a smaller tent of 494 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,520 skin. Yeah. 495 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,160 Or maybe it was a whole pavilion, and only a portion of 496 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,960 it was made out of skin and out the whole thing. 497 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,000 But even if you try to downplay this story, it's still pretty 498 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,880 gruesome, right? Yeah, Yeah. 499 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,480 Nina suggests another possibility, that maybe Stefan 500 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,960 the younger brother, was 1/2 brother, which might have been 501 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,120 why Marla had priority in in order 'cause she was the older 502 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:42,320 one. So yeah, that's a possibility. 503 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,800 She's also a little perplexed, maybe not perplexed, but 504 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,880 confused in a similar way to We are and that it's hard to pin 505 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,960 down what was going on here because there's a a little bit 506 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,960 of, there's a a couple more details that would tell us a 507 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,840 lot, like one or two more details would mean a lot. 508 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,960 I also think George was thinking about the Anarchy, as in the 509 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,000 Anarchy in England. Marla and Stefan are very 510 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,240 similar names to Matilda, slash Maude and Steven, who were the 511 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,840 two main claimants, and they were related in a similar way. 512 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,240 So one of the arguments against Matilda's claim, by the way, was 513 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,200 that her mother had been a nun, which is similar to how Marla 514 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,600 was cast aside except afterwards and said it before. 515 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,960 We also refer to the Anarchy multiple times in our scripted 516 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,200 coverage of The Dance of the Dragons with Radio Westeros 517 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,200 'cause it's the main parallel to that entire war. 518 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,120 But it's clearly George has used it as a blueprint here and there 519 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:46,000 elsewhere, because, well, it's a it's a fantastic, real world 520 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,200 story, you know, taking away all the suffering and horror that 521 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,120 happened during it, you know, 1200 years ago or whenever it 522 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,880 was. Exiled and imprisoned is a 523 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,920 little unusual too. Yeah, what's that? 524 00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,680 It's. Almost seems like it should be 525 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:00,800 the other way. Imprisoned. 526 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,680 Like they capture her and put her in jail and then decide, OK, 527 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,160 send her off to Essos. That would be imprisoned in 528 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,480 exile but exiled in a prison. So you send her off to Essos and 529 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,720 then put her in jail and it couldn't even been Essos because 530 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,080 she's with the silent sisters. Yeah, it's. 531 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,400 Just it's weird. She exiled from the sisters, 532 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,000 maybe? I think that's if we piece it 533 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,240 together. The the the best way I can make 534 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,840 sense of it is yes, she was imprisoned for a little while 535 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,200 and then exiled. And then because she kept 536 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,000 talking or trying to stir up trouble, they brought her back, 537 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,440 cut her tongue out, and made her join the Sound sisters. 538 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,920 That's kind of my figure. Like Exile. 539 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,080 Even Exile wasn't enough to stop her from causing trouble, 540 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,520 because again, like if she was just a puppet, they sent her 541 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,680 overseas. Like how could they? 542 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,600 How could she ever be a problem again? 543 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,240 You know, like she was never. She was only ever a problem in 544 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,640 the 1st place because they made her one. 545 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,360 It's possible I I I think there is a scenario where maybe she 546 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,480 was just a scapegoat, but she knew that they did have these 547 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,000 plans, that they're being dishonest, that they weren't 548 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,880 loyal to Targaryens, and then once they made her a scapegoat, 549 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,320 she's not going to let him get away with it. 550 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,400 So she kept telling the truth, which, before the Target Games, 551 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,960 catch wind of our real plan. Yeah, So this again, the 552 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,440 timeline isn't super precise here, but we're pretty sure this 553 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,000 happened before Aegon resolved the Iron Islands. 554 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,800 But either way, the two events somewhat overlap somewhat, and 555 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,040 that would explain why Aegon perhaps didn't come himself, or 556 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,680 it was because Vassanya started it, so let her finish it 557 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,240 something like that because it's technically part of the veil 558 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,080 which was her portion of the conquest. 559 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,880 So either way, they were the last two regions to be settled 560 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,520 before the attempts on Dorne began, and technically Dorne 561 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,520 would never be settled during Aegon's time. 562 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,920 So they were the last two regions to be settled during 563 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,800 Aegon's reign and war with Dorne wouldn't start till the 4th year 564 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,080 after the conquest, so AC4. So this is basically the size of 565 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,720 the realm for like 190 years, a little less than that. 566 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,920 So the the realm is fixed despite the attempts to add 567 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,520 Dorne or maybe the temporary editions of Dorne. 568 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,080 This is basically what it's going to look like in terms of 569 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,440 the borders for until Dorne joins via marriage. 570 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:18,560 And remember, there had already been a threat and a rejection, 571 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,400 right? Rainey's had already gone there 572 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,800 and flown around to several castles and no one showed up And 573 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,520 she they kept leaving. And then she finally got face to 574 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,080 face with Miria and the yellow, AKA the yellow toad. 575 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,200 And she's like, you know, get out of here, unbowed, unbent, 576 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,880 unbroken. And Rainey said we'll be back 577 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,440 with fire and blood, which she will, but that time won't come 578 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,560 for a few years yet. So technically, there's been no 579 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,720 fighting between Dorne and the new Iron Throne yet, which is 580 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,280 partly why they're able to space this time out. 581 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,160 As we'll see, there's actually going to be some more 582 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760 negotiations there going to be another try at a peaceful 583 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,200 resolution. We'll talk about that a little 584 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,160 later in the episode. OK, let's get into the interim 585 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,120 properly here. The the narrative in Fire and 586 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,680 Blood focuses its attention on how the realm was ruled after 587 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,080 the end of the Dornish Wars. But clearly this all happened in 588 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,160 concert. In other words, the the, the 589 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,080 descriptions of what happens after the Dornish War must have 590 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,360 started before it because the Dornish War started. 591 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,400 It took nine years and it didn't start till the 4th year. 592 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,320 So stuff was happening before that in terms of setting up a 593 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,520 new regime and and making some of these policies. 594 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,440 But it's described as happening after that. 595 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,480 I just think that's how the book is laid out, you know, because 596 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,840 he doesn't want to discuss the real progresses and then discuss 597 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,840 them again, discuss all these marriages between and then 598 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,800 discuss them again. It would be sort of repetitive. 599 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,280 So I think there's, but that's still, it's a lot of time, 600 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,400 right? Four years roughly or maybe 3 601 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,720 1/2 between Aegon's coronation and the beginning of the next 602 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,080 serious war. That's a substantial amount of 603 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,960 time, and it's at a time, a very crucial time when the Kingdom is 604 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,640 new and a lot of stuff needs doing. 605 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,680 And if we consider the Ironborn and three sisters needing Dragon 606 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,760 Rider attention, So there were wars going on, but those were 607 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,960 largely confined, like they didn't spill out into other 608 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,560 areas. And in fact, the Sisters, as we 609 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,240 just described, wasn't really a war at all, unless there was 610 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,680 some. There might have been an uptick 611 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,080 in in shipwrecking and and maybe some piracy, but other than 612 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,560 that, it wasn't. It still didn't rise to the 613 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,360 level of war, like I said, and neither were relatively 614 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,360 protracted either. They ended pretty quickly. 615 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,360 So it was fairly peaceful after the field of fire and the 616 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,720 burning of Harrenhal. And in part that's why it was 617 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,160 fairly peaceful, because people didn't want to see a repeat of 618 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,480 those things. They knew what they were up 619 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,760 against. So you could say maybe it was an 620 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,680 uneasy piece or maybe more accurately it was a period of 621 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,080 adjustment. What would you say, Sean? 622 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,680 How would you would you frame it that way or what do you think 623 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,600 here? Creative adjustment, for sure. 624 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,680 Through a lot of this, I was thinking about the idea that 625 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,760 when America declared independence, it was in the 626 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,440 midst of the war that we were writing the Articles of 627 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760 Confederation. And it took a couple years to do 628 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,000 that. And then eventually that was 629 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,800 also replaced by the Constitution. 630 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,120 And that also took some time, you know. 631 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,840 So, you know, they didn't quite have the same sort of written 632 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,960 documentation of the former government they were going to 633 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,720 have. But it still would take some 634 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,880 policy decisions and people being put in place and all. 635 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,080 And kind of like you were saying, like if you're like 636 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,040 teaching this, if you're, you know, writing this out or 637 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,640 whatever, you don't go back and forth between some battle in 638 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,720 South Carolina and some meeting in Pennsylvania about the 639 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,960 Articles of Confederation back to some battle master. 640 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,360 You just talk about all the battles, then you talk about all 641 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,640 the Articles of Confederation and separate topics, you know, 642 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,200 so, and I think that's probably what was happening. 643 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,360 Even through the course of the war with Dorn, they're probably 644 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,000 still establishing certain positions and certain, you know, 645 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,760 dipping out land, setting up marriages. 646 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,880 All these governmental type things are happening 647 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,920 concurrently with the WAR type things. 648 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,000 Right on, yeah. I I That's tends to be the way I 649 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,480 lean as well. So I think it looks like we 650 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,280 agree on that now. Yeah, 'cause it can't be 651 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,280 understated what a giant change this was for Westeros. 652 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,840 Yes, in a way you could see it coming from a historical 653 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,040 perspective. The kingdoms, we they've gone 654 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,080 from thousands or or hundreds of kingdoms down to seven or eight 655 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,239 or whatever you want to call it. However you define Kingdom, it's 656 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,120 not terribly important to get that number precise. 657 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,159 The point is the same. There was a shrinkage in the 658 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,320 number of kingdoms, more unity, more that. 659 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,000 So this was kind of a a natural step forward. 660 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,679 It was just a matter of someone needing to do it, someone having 661 00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:23,159 the ability to pull it all together. 662 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,480 It probably would have happened eventually, even without 663 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,000 Dragons, though it would have probably taken longer, maybe a 664 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,800 lot longer. So this is the kind of thing we 665 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,400 covered in our Under the Dragon series, which is we've we've 666 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,560 done a couple episodes on that in different regions and how 667 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,400 they were affected by the early rain of the Dragons. 668 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,120 And of course we have one episode on before the Dragons 669 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,960 which was the state of the realm just before the conquest began. 670 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,760 So in terms of these new policies and this new way of 671 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,760 ruling the realm, we we get to have an extra fun here because 672 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,719 we can look at how they started and then later look at how they 673 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,000 did or didn't work out In the long term. 674 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,640 Because we've got a lot of Targaryen history in front of us 675 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,920 coming up over the however long it takes us to go through all 676 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,600 this and at a very high level many of the great Lords of 677 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,240 Westeros would be preoccupied with getting their vassals to 678 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,080 accept the new state of affairs. Meaning there's changes. 679 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,600 They're like, well some things would be different with tax 680 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,720 structure and and your obligations to your Lords and 681 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,000 certain titles would be redefined. 682 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,720 Just a general restructuring. Any of you has ever worked at a 683 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:27,040 big company that has an organizational restructure, even 684 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,320 a small company having organizational restructure where 685 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,440 people take different titles and people move around. 686 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,760 Sometimes it's a really good thing, it's very needed, 687 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,600 sometimes it's not, but a lot of times it's very necessary. 688 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:38,800 Like things are just kind of out of whack. 689 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,560 It's good reset, get things, things have fallen off and then 690 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,960 rather than trying to pick them up one at a time, you do the 691 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,200 difficult thing and it's like a full house cleaning. 692 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,360 You know something. You want to keep your house 693 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,600 clean, but sometimes you need to get under the couches and clean 694 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,160 the window sills and just get to areas that have really needed 695 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,520 work and haven't gotten it. That's kind of what's happening 696 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,120 here. Some of these structures have 697 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,000 existed for so long that having a refresh or a reset is actually 698 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,200 a very good thing. And sometimes it takes a 699 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,920 negative thing to pump that right, like the basement floods. 700 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:12,560 All right, well, the basement's about to get clean better than 701 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,000 it ever has before, right? It sucks that it flooded, but 702 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,160 it's going to prompt this action that has been put off. 703 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,360 So some of these changes probably should have happened in 704 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,880 Westeros already, and it took a war to push it so. 705 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,000 Yeah, and the what's interesting is where a lot of that burden 706 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,920 falls. Yes, a lot of these high Lords 707 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,040 will have to find ways to make their vassals happy with this 708 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,200 new state of affairs, while also finding ways to accept it 709 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,880 themselves. But it's interesting that a lot 710 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:45,600 of the burden of this change fell on their children and not 711 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,960 their heirs so much as their younger children and as it often 712 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,960 does, as often these things do 'cause they don't inherit 713 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,440 things. So they're often left with being 714 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,600 the hostage or the marriage, the hand in marriage that has to be 715 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,120 given to to create an alliance or something like that. 716 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,400 So let's check out a quote here on and many days on this topic 717 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,360 how the High Lords face this. It's their chill rather their 718 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,880 the children of the High Lords face this on a day-to-day basis. 719 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,760 Quote. The reconciliation of the Seven 720 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,920 Kingdoms to Targaryen rule was the keystone of Aegon the 721 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,440 First's policies as king. To this end, he made great 722 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,520 efforts to include men and even a few women from every part of 723 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,600 the realm in his court and councils. 724 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,600 His former foes were encouraged to send their children, chiefly 725 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,720 younger sons and daughters, as most great Lords desired, to 726 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:46,400 keep their heirs close to home to court, where the boys served 727 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,160 as pages, cup bearers and Squires, the girls as 728 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,560 handmaidens and companions to Aegon's Queens In King's 729 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,800 Landing. They witnessed the King's 730 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,680 justice at first hand and were urged to think of themselves as 731 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,640 legal subjects of 1 Great Realm, not as Western Men or 732 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,360 Stormlanders or Northmen. Yeah, that's a really 733 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,880 interesting way to think about it, right? 734 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,200 That he is trying to create a new noble culture where they 735 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,680 don't think of themselves step. It's probably easier for certain 736 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,360 realms than others. It's probably harder to get the 737 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,400 Northmen to think themselves as part of 1 Realm or the Ironborn. 738 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,400 But the Westerman, the Starlanders, the Riverlanders, 739 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,640 the Reach, their culture was already a lot similar, so that 740 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,640 might have been a bit easier task there. 741 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,400 They already worship the same gods. 742 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,600 They already have, you know care about things like knighthood and 743 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,280 they have similar views on marriage and eat a lot of the 744 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,560 same foods. So that was probably easier and 745 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,400 that's in some cases than others. 746 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,920 But there's always individuals to to reckon with. 747 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,560 Some people are just stubborn and some people are just very 748 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,600 adaptive and who knows where these individuals came from. 749 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,840 There's nothing about Northerners that's fundamentally 750 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,040 less adaptive. I don't think you know from if 751 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,640 there. If you get taught things at an 752 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,840 early age, you you still have that malleability to to change 753 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,400 and see the world differently than than someone who's maybe 754 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,280 been stuck in their ways for 50 years or something like that. 755 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,040 So this is pretty fascinating. It's also a pattern that's 756 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,760 existed for a long time. I mean the idea of pages, cup 757 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,920 bearers, Squires, handmaidens and companions. 758 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,720 We've seen this so much in A Song of Ice and Fire. 759 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:28,320 It comes up very often here and there, but court and council is 760 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,840 a pretty broad term, isn't it? Like that's what is courts a 761 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,520 little, or councils a little simpler. 762 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,400 Although at this era the small council wasn't fully defined, so 763 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,360 it's still kind of vague. But court, like every court, is 764 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,080 different. Like who's allowed there? 765 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,200 Like the vibe, the culture, you know, how much they talk, 766 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,360 whether they gossip, whether they don't, whether they're like 767 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,840 to party or are very, you know, stern or it just the different 768 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,200 vibes. And if you go through different 769 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,080 courts of different Targaryen kings or of non Targaryen kings, 770 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,400 you see that it's it can change quite a bit. 771 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,080 Like consider Aegon the 4th versus Aegon the 5th, the huge 772 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,960 difference just there between 2 Aegons. 773 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,480 Or compare say, Aegon the first, Aegon the 4th. 774 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,360 Massive difference there. You've got a guy who's pretty 775 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,680 serious. Pretty determined hard worker 776 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,120 versus a guy who's just a complete waste of of space is a 777 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,400 horrible person. Even counsel, especially at this 778 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,960 point could be very different because you think of counsel as 779 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,360 like this close group of advisors, right? 780 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,320 That's sort of what it basically would be. 781 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,600 But it might have been a little different at this point because 782 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:40,080 when he needed counsel on things far away, he needed to know 783 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,920 what's going on in the north, in the West and Iron Islands. 784 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,360 And he was traveling there also, right? 785 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,080 Yeah. So his council would have been 786 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,400 more spread out. That's true geographically and 787 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,480 probably a greater number of people spread out over a greater 788 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,880 number of locations and and I bet his court was larger than 789 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,240 normal to anyone's courts later on that were large were probably 790 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,240 because of the president he was setting because he needed to 791 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:04,800 include as many people as. Possible, yeah. 792 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,440 It was a policy, Yeah, for sure. Like, I I don't know if this is 793 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,920 exactly the the best way to look at it, but I bet his court was 794 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:13,600 There's all kinds of weird exceptions. 795 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,280 I realize this is complicated to say, but what I want to say is 796 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,400 it. I bet his court was more than 797 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,680 seven times bigger than any one of the other Seven Realms 798 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,160 courts. I could see that, yeah. 799 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,960 I could totally see that, yeah. It's hard to say 7 because drama 800 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,600 isn't a part of it. You see what I'm saying. 801 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,440 It was relatively bigger, proportionately bigger than any 802 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,600 other. He was intentionally trying to 803 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,640 bring as many young nobles there as possible in order to impart 804 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,920 this new attitude, this new level of culture, and just to 805 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,320 show them, to remind them who's boss. 806 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,880 Picture yourself as one of these people. 807 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,880 Let's imagine this twice. Once as someone who's a bit like 808 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,640 Sansa, someone who's heard about court, who's excited about the 809 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,800 possibility, who thinks it's an amazing place to be, wants to be 810 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,320 a part of it, maybe sees opportunity for advancement, 811 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,200 maybe just is excited about it for a number of different 812 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,640 reasons, or someone like. Opportunity for handsome boys. 813 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,240 Sure. Or if you're if we're 814 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:08,960 pretending. Or girls, if you're if this is a 815 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:16,040 male Sansa, Sansa or someone like Ned where who is like does 816 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,800 not want to go to court, it's like I'd rather stay home. 817 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,200 I like it here much better, You know they can do their thing. 818 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,320 I'll I'd rather do that. But that is forced to go. 819 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,200 Someone who has to go that doesn't want to picture it from 820 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,040 both of their angles. That someone I this isn't like 821 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,840 now I don't mean like a Sansa who's eventually going to be 822 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,240 disillusioned of their someone who's naive 'cause this is not 823 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,400 someone who's there's no Joffrey in this scenario. 824 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,600 These these they're not getting forced to marry some awful 825 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,080 Prince. Now there are probably some 826 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,840 examples of arranged marriages for some of these people that 827 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,680 didn't work out, and there might be a few Joffrey's in there, but 828 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,520 it's certainly not like an odd like. 829 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,160 Don't take the Sansa scenario too. 830 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,400 Strictly here, take it as the Sansa mentality going into it. 831 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,400 That's what you're. Looking not the not the actual 832 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,640 way it plays out. Yeah. 833 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,280 So versus the Ned mentality, he's not going to play out with 834 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,120 him dying. He was having his head chopped 835 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,880 off either. Like that's not necessarily how 836 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,880 it's going to go, but just that attitude and then showing up at 837 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,320 court for the first time, OK, so let's let's envision it as the 838 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:13,800 sansa. The Sansa shows up and she's 839 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,080 like, OK, this isn't quite what I thought, because I came from 840 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,520 Winterfell or Highgarden or something like that, and this is 841 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,280 just a wooden keep at this point. 842 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,800 It's the Aegon for it. It's just logs and dirt. 843 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,400 And it's like, OK, this isn't really what I pictured for the 844 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,200 king who just conquered the entire continent with this. 845 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,600 But then they see like Valerian and you're like, oh, OK, well, 846 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,520 that I now I get it, you know, because not a lot. 847 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,960 A lot of them would still not have seen Valerian or any of the 848 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,840 Dragons, despite how much they had been seen. 849 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,920 There's still been a lot of young nobles that would not have 850 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,400 seen them, especially a lot of the girls, 'cause they wouldn't 851 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,840 have been anywhere near the battlefield. 852 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,160 And a lot of the young men too, 'cause some of them would have 853 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,720 been near the battlefield, but some of them would have been 854 00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:55,400 young enough to not go, or some of them just their house never 855 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,280 fought. Like a lot of the houses in the 856 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,680 Vale may still not have seen a dragon yet, because the Senja 857 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,840 went to outside Gull Town to burn the ships and then straight 858 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,680 to the Erie to accept the surrender. 859 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,480 So there wasn't a lot of in between, so a lot of them may 860 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,400 not have seen it. So like House Royce May, that's 861 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,280 a pretty major name, may not have seen a dragon yet, you 862 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,000 know, or especially not Valerian. 863 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,360 They may have seen Veigar. So they're all taking one at a 864 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,040 time. They're all arriving or in 865 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,640 groups and and being simultaneously like what's up 866 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,720 with this log thing, but also overwhelmed by the Dragons and 867 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,760 perhaps Aegon and his sisters as well, because they're very 868 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,920 exceptional both in visage and, you know, prior reputation. 869 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,200 So that that would be kind of an unusual, like, wow, they've got 870 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,040 this, they're amazing, but they need a New Castle, don't they? 871 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,400 You know, and remember, this is the mindset of a noble like you 872 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,680 or me, probably we wouldn't be like, this is dingy, you know, 873 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,960 we'd be like, I don't think I'd have thoughts like that, but I 874 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,880 wasn't bored. Extreme wealth, so. 875 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,400 There might be some, Ned included, who might be more 876 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,000 satisfied with it. People who are more appreciative 877 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,560 of a Spartan lifestyle might be happy rather than not wasting a 878 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,760 bunch of resources on gold statues. 879 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,560 You know that might be more OK with it. 880 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,960 And some might come from similarly meager castles 881 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,600 themselves, right? Like, I don't know, someone from 882 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,480 Barrowtown or whatever, like most of them probably came from 883 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,280 the more major houses. It would expect nicer quarters, 884 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,200 but but some of them also might have been impressed. 885 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,480 Especially the ones that may be more knowledgeable might be like 886 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:33,840 they might have the same mentality. 887 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,960 You're saying like, this is kind of crappy compared to my home, 888 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,080 but some of them might be like, wow, this was built in how long? 889 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,360 Yeah. Yeah, it's already this big, 890 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:42,640 like there's. And they might, some of them 891 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,640 might be excited to see what it turns into. 892 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,520 They're like, oh, this is clearly just the start. 893 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,920 They're going to build more. And you can already see when you 894 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,200 arrive at King's Landing, well, there's like a building is going 895 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,280 up. There's probably multiple 896 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,960 buildings under construction when they showed up, and that 897 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,120 state of affairs would continue for the rest of their lives. 898 00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,840 King's Landing is going to grow really rapidly. 899 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,880 The Red Keep isn't going to be finished till 45 AC. 900 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,120 There's just a lot going on. King's Landing is going to be an 901 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,040 incredibly bustling place. And it's not just the city, it's 902 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,640 also the Cat the the Red Keep. Well, beg on Fort and then the 903 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,920 Red Keep. As I thought I had a little 904 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,920 earlier when we were talking about the idea of all these 905 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,800 people coming here and how large the court would be that they've 906 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,800 got to be prepared for this. So there's got to be enough 907 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,480 cooks and food and stables and everything else for all these 908 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:24,480 people. They've been brought to court. 909 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,840 And once you have that established, well, you're not 910 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,480 going to peel back, right? You're going to continue to take 911 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,240 advantage of all the infrastructure that's built. 912 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:36,760 So the court will stay big and become a center of communication 913 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,840 and trade and everything else. Absolutely. 914 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,240 Now, Nina brings up another great point here. 915 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,800 Compare this scenario to Danny, which we're going to have 916 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,800 several comparisons to Danny throughout this episode. 917 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,320 As always, Danny is a great parallel to Egg on the 918 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,720 Conqueror, but this is a part of the parallel that is not as 919 00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:57,680 explored as much. Like people focus on a lot of 920 00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,640 the basics. Like, OK, three Dragons 921 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,840 conquering, you know, establishing a dynasty verse, 922 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,200 reestablishing it, a lot of parallels there. 923 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,240 A black dragon specifically, you know all these other things. 924 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:15,840 But Danny in Marine had to learn how to rule after having of an 925 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,400 exceptional conquest over the area and kind of beating them 926 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,960 fairly easily, right? And and she didn't even have as 927 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,640 much dragon power, and in fact quite a lot less dragon power. 928 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:30,040 And in fact in fact she had no dragon power during most of the 929 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,360 conquering of Slaver's Bay other than Drogon burning the face of 930 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,760 1 slaver. You know during the the the 931 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,640 trick for the Unsullied. So mostly was the Unsullied that 932 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,520 did the damage there and and her Dothraki and some other things 933 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,000 so. But that aside, it's a similar 934 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,000 scenario where she comes into a place, takes it over and has to 935 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,400 make a lot of changes, has to make change to the culture, and 936 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,240 wants to rearrange how things are done. 937 00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,720 And she's dealing with a stubborn nobility, one that's 938 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:03,440 not really pleased with her. Now To be fair, the Westerosi 939 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,280 nobles were probably more accepting of Aegon than the 940 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:13,760 Mirror Knees are of Danny. There's some prior anger towards 941 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,720 the Targaryens and Valyrians based on the history of the 942 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,360 Ghiscari Empire and the Valyrian Empire which does. 943 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,880 That kind of background doesn't exist with Westeros. 944 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,560 That sort of, you know, anti dragon attitude wasn't there. 945 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:33,240 And they're more hostile as well because she's making bigger 946 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:35,520 changes. Like there's no ending of 947 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,440 slavery that Aegon's trying to pull up. 948 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,920 In fact, Aegon very much so, is a policy of changing as little 949 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,360 as possible in the short term. In the longer term, he changes 950 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,360 more. But in those first few years, 951 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,280 he's very cautious not to change too much because he doesn't want 952 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,920 to get anyone too upset. He doesn't want to encourage 953 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,080 rebellions, he doesn't. He wants to keep everything safe 954 00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,640 and peaceful, which you know you you don't want to see certain, 955 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,120 you want certain laws needed to be changed and maybe there's 956 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,880 definitely some things I would say you should have changed 957 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:09,920 those sooner. But I respect as a policy not 958 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,000 just forcing a bunch of changes all at once, given that's 959 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,480 probably better for keeping the violence at a minimum, That's 960 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:18,680 the most important thing, I think. 961 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,800 And enabling more change down the line, right? 962 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,720 If you change a whole bunch up front, people might have a hard 963 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:26,000 time accepting any of the changes. 964 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,160 But if you do one thing at a time, by the time you get to the 965 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:29,840 fifth one, then they'll be more on board with you. 966 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,240 That's true. That's a good point. 967 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,840 It's also an extra challenge that Danny has is that this is 968 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,800 fundamental to their way of life, like the morality aside, 969 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,040 which you know, not that we shouldn't address that too. 970 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,200 But for example, if Aegon wanted the Iron Islands to stop 971 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,960 sailing, stop using boats, yeah, it would just be crazy. 972 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:51,760 The idea that would just be crazy. 973 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,960 And it would almost be impossible to get them to do 974 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,560 that. Now if somehow using boats was 975 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,360 immoral, we might root for Aegon to do that. 976 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,120 But. But you could still see the 977 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,640 trouble he would have Even if sailing was immoral, it would be 978 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,640 still really hard to get this people whose culture is based on 979 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,240 it to stop doing it. Yeah, agreed. 980 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:10,880 Agreed. Yeah, that's that's a solid 981 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:11,480 example. Yeah. 982 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,760 So there's really for Danny to change their ways and it's Aegon 983 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,480 is faced with a similar scenario. 984 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,800 Perhaps not so many of these things aren't so deeply 985 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,640 entrenched. He's not trying to make any any. 986 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,440 No, no single change Aegon is trying to make is as large as 987 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,920 ending slavery in Marine probably. 988 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,720 So that's a a worthy consideration. 989 00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:33,000 Now let's look at this too. Some of these an opportunity, 990 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,600 right? Some of these people who are 991 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,440 second sons, third sons, daughters, what have you, they 992 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,600 were like, well, what is my what's what's my outlook in 993 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:41,880 life? I'm not going to inherit 994 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,720 Winterfell or Highgarden or what have you. 995 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,880 I got to go out into the world and make my own thing. 996 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:52,160 Well, maybe that opportunity is at this newly formed 997 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,080 governmental authority that, hey, maybe I can make friends 998 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,960 with the right people. Like it's an opportunity. 999 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,840 It's a no one has climbed these ladders yet. 1000 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,640 Like there are ladders of power to be climbed in the Targaryen 1001 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,320 regime. But no one's really done that 1002 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,880 yet, except for maybe a handful of people who are already close 1003 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,080 to Aegon prior to the the war, and maybe a few powerful people 1004 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,080 who would have gotten in his good graces in that short period 1005 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,160 of time since the end of Hostilities. 1006 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,320 Like there's a Nina mentions the shave page. 1007 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,120 Someone who's like, good, we can finally take it to these slavers 1008 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,880 and make these changes, right? There's there isn't a person 1009 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:31,200 like that that we know of in Westeros who's like, yeah, let's 1010 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,320 stick it to the nobility that it's about time they got taken 1011 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,280 down a peg or two. It's not really like that. 1012 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,800 So there are some parallels, but there are also parallels that 1013 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,400 that don't work. Not and not every aristocratic 1014 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,960 family is going to have a place at court, in part because they 1015 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,000 don't have anyone to send, right? 1016 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,800 Like the Oris Baratheon took over the took over House 1017 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,080 Durrington, but there wouldn't have been a child to send 1018 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,520 anyway, even if he hadn't, right? 1019 00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,920 There was the daughter who was the only heir. 1020 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,840 So they're not going to send the only heir to court. 1021 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,680 Or what if you go to the Lannisters? 1022 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:11,200 Tyrion says that his ancestor escaped the field of fire and 1023 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,040 bent the knee, and then fathered a son, for which he's duly 1024 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,480 grateful. Because if he hadn't fathered a 1025 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,320 son, Terry and himself would never have been born. 1026 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,080 So that implies that the Lord of Castor Rock at the time of the 1027 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:27,200 field of fire did not have a son, which means that these he 1028 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,240 these came later. He may have had daughters, who 1029 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:30,760 knows? And maybe they went to court. 1030 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,800 That's an interesting option to consider is these opportunities 1031 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,440 at court were happening, but if a family just doesn't have 1032 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,080 children to send there, then they can't take part in this. 1033 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,320 Like maybe they could send an uncle to try to like get on the 1034 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,600 council or something. But yeah, it's a funny scenario 1035 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,440 where you just if your house is too small, you can't, you can't 1036 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,440 participate. It is interesting to think how 1037 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,760 some houses strengths might have been increased and diminished 1038 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,840 just based on that arbitrary factor in that moment. 1039 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,920 Yeah. Again, I think I may have even 1040 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,120 used this example before. Those of you who know The 1041 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,920 Expanse, it's the term, the churn. 1042 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,800 And that's when like, there's a big rearranging of things that 1043 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,040 are completely out of your control, like all like a 1044 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,080 government rearranges itself or a war is happening and Someone 1045 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,440 Like You or me, we have no ability to, to affect anything. 1046 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,240 All we can do is hope to survive it and then find our place in 1047 00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:25,720 this new environment, whatever that happens to be, however it 1048 00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:27,400 shapes out. And so this is a time, this is 1049 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,120 that level of change. It is a churn, A Westeros churn 1050 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,880 where some people are going to be ground up in it and not 1051 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,800 survive it. Or and by survive, I don't 1052 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,040 necessarily mean they'll be killed, but their their income 1053 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,440 might be destroyed. Their place in in society might 1054 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:46,560 be, might not exist anymore. There the some honors they had 1055 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,080 gained might not carry the same social or cultural weight that 1056 00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,200 they used to. Things that you're proud of 1057 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,600 might now be negatives by a lot, might be viewed as negative by a 1058 00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,400 lot of people. We've seen these things happen 1059 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,360 in the real world all the time. So in terms of Foster rings, 1060 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,360 just think of all the examples. Let me just throw a few others 1061 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,200 out here just to set the stage a little more like Jamie and Lord 1062 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,680 Titus Blackwood, for example. First of all, Lord Titus 1063 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,120 Blackwood when he surrenders to Jamie and A Dance With Dragons 1064 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,320 he's kind of nice about it a little bit. 1065 00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,760 Jamie's like, well, which hostage do you want to send? 1066 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,360 He said first he asked for his daughter Bethany and Titus is 1067 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,520 clearly disturbed by that. And he's like, well, can I send 1068 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:29,440 this son of mine who likes books and isn't much of A warrior And 1069 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,840 Jamie's like, yeah sure, you know that's fine with me. 1070 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,760 He's like, but but but don't but but don't forget what this is 1071 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,760 all about. You know, like this is a hostage 1072 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,440 and we will kill him if we, you know, if you don't behave. 1073 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,600 And he's like, I know who I'm dealing with Kingslayer, you 1074 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,120 know, it's a great exchange. So Jamie was like, yeah, I'm 1075 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,160 going to be nice about it. But don't mistake this for 1076 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,520 softness. Don't mistake my niceness my 1077 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,600 giving you leeway for softness. And I doubt anyone mistake or 1078 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,080 mistook Aegon's position for soft. 1079 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,600 He's like, yeah, send me your children. 1080 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,520 Send me your yeah, second born. It doesn't. 1081 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:01,880 It's fine. I don't need your first born. 1082 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,440 Just send me as many as you can. Now the implication might be. 1083 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,520 Better Cindy, What if you don't? I might. 1084 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:13,760 If you don't send me fossils, I might ask for some specific ones 1085 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:15,600 you know. If you don't choose, I might 1086 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,280 choose for you. And if you outright refuse, 1087 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,800 well, you don't want to do that. You don't want to, you don't 1088 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,760 want to find out what happens. You know, if you don't do that, 1089 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,920 don't, don't test the Conqueror. And what would they be doing? 1090 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,040 What are these wealthy nobles, young nobles who are with no 1091 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,080 jobs? Yeah, as you write in the test 1092 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:35,040 shot, you wrote what? These? 1093 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:35,560 What? No. 1094 00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,360 Jobs get a job, but they don't. Do any of them do? 1095 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,000 Yeah, just sit around with the land they inherited and no jobs, 1096 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,640 I guess I some of them hopefully are being productive. 1097 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:50,440 I don't know reading and training or funding bridges to 1098 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,280 be built across streams and irrigation systems or something, 1099 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,720 but I feel like most of them are really wasting the resources 1100 00:55:57,720 --> 00:56:00,440 their their underlings. Yeah, I I think a good a good 1101 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,800 amount of education and training would happen for sure, 'cause 1102 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,760 that's that's just seems like the part of all noble upbringing 1103 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,920 and and some hunting and you know, their their regular 1104 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,720 pursuits, which isn't necessarily a a good thing. 1105 00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:13,840 It's just a thing really. It's not really that bad either, 1106 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,640 just whatever. So, but I think the education 1107 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,920 part is interesting because this is where there's a chance for 1108 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:25,240 Aegon to push some of his agencies or his agenda, which is 1109 00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:29,160 to get these youngsters to see the realm differently, to stop 1110 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,040 seeing it as a bunch of realms and see it as one realm. 1111 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:32,360 And that's a part of the education. 1112 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,880 Like if he's influencing the maesters and then having a say 1113 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,720 in what they teach these youngsters, I feel like that's 1114 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,960 at the top of the list, given what emphasis is placed on here 1115 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,440 in the source. And we know Aegon was big on 1116 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,440 maesters. He had one that always was with 1117 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:49,960 him. I think he also had one on 1118 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,560 Dragonstone. The Senya and Rainey's had their 1119 00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:56,360 own maesters too, so they weren't stinting on the 1120 00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,880 maesters. So I think that says a lot about 1121 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,320 the fact that he was big on having maesters around. 1122 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:06,280 And one of these kids here, I think he very likely was not 1123 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,560 maybe not aggressive, but forthright about educating them 1124 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,400 in a certain way. I wouldn't call it 1125 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,360 indoctrination, but it was certainly, it certainly had it. 1126 00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:14,720 There was certainly a plan behind it. 1127 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:20,400 You know, a big question I have here is royal progresses. 1128 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,680 They were a huge part of Aegon's policy towards keeping the peace 1129 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,680 and for spreading his authority and reminding people of who he 1130 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:35,000 was and the cost of rebellion. By confronting them face to face 1131 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,040 with what they'd be going up against, he placed a lot of 1132 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,920 value in them. Here's an actual rare quote from 1133 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,840 Aegon himself. It's better to forestall 1134 00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,800 rebellions than put them down, Aegon famously said when asked 1135 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,360 the reasons for his journeys. A glimpse of the king in all his 1136 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,600 power, mounted on Valerian the Black Dread and attended by 1137 00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,040 hundreds of Knights glittering in silk and steel, did much to 1138 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,080 instill loyalty and restless Lords. 1139 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,920 Small folk need to see their kings and Queens from time to 1140 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,240 time as well, the king added. And no, they might have the 1141 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,720 chance to lay their grievances and concerns before him. 1142 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,520 I want to point out this is a lesson that Ranira should have 1143 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,280 learned. Yes, absolutely. 1144 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,360 After Viscera said that she was going to inherit, she flew 1145 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,640 around, you know, once every couple months to all the 1146 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,040 different Lords with her dragon to remind everyone I'm going to 1147 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,280 be queen one day. She might have had more support 1148 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,200 when the time came. To be fair, book Ranira did 1149 00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,560 quite a lot more of this than than show Ranira. 1150 00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,640 Although most of it I think was when her father was still alive. 1151 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,800 She did, she was seen by. That's how she got the 1152 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,760 reputation for being the Realms delight and why so she had such 1153 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,800 popularity as a young as a younger person which is part of 1154 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,040 why she took took it for granted later, which I don't. 1155 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,160 I don't think the show brought that part out as much. 1156 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,200 But anyway we're we're not talking show too much today so 1157 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,680 let's let's keep it going. Given the sheer number of 1158 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,600 progress that he went on during his reign and how important he 1159 00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,920 viewed them, I think they probably started this early, 1160 00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,320 right? He didn't have that much else 1161 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,640 going on besides he went to the Iron Islands that one time and 1162 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:06,920 sorted that out. He didn't go to the veil, he 1163 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,840 didn't go to Dorne, at least not yet. 1164 00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,840 And we know that he generally gave over a lot of the 1165 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:18,040 day-to-day ruling and building of the Aegon Fort to Visenia, 1166 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,680 which would give him leave to be elsewhere, possibly on some of 1167 00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,520 these progresses, though we're also told that he spent a lot of 1168 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:29,360 time back on Dragonstone. So this is just a brief note 1169 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,360 about those progresses, 'cause we're going to speak to them a 1170 00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,440 little more later because they're such a bigger part of 1171 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:39,080 his later reign. And now we're only theorizing 1172 00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:40,400 that they probably started this early. 1173 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,400 He's going to be making like 3 decades worth of progresses. 1174 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,280 And I think also there's like a lot of these things that they 1175 00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,080 probably changed over time, like how many people he brought, the 1176 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,800 type of attitude he was spreading. 1177 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,240 He was probably a little more domineering early on, or a 1178 00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:55,960 little more about showing his power later. 1179 00:59:55,960 --> 01:00:01,320 It was more about maintaining and just keeping keeping things 1180 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,840 tight rather than locking them down. 1181 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:05,640 You know there's locking it down and then there's keeping it 1182 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,720 locked down, right? You can imagine over time he 1183 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,480 might have formed some genuine relationships with people too. 1184 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,520 Yeah, that's true. Like really befriended some of 1185 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,760 the other Lords or soldiers and what when he went to visit them, 1186 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,440 he probably like gained a lot of insights about their culture or 1187 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,480 their how their cities are structured and such things that 1188 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:26,680 he was worried about himself. He would have huge value on its 1189 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,280 own, enough to just have this show of force remind everyone 1190 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,040 who's in charge. But there are all these other 1191 01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,600 values to come from it too. Yes, you're right. 1192 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,240 That's that's a very good point about certain Lords would like 1193 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,400 plenty would suck up to him, but there would be some that 1194 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,960 actually that they actually got along like you say like a 1195 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,560 genuine connection maybe even friendship. 1196 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,160 Even though Aegon perhaps wasn't big on that. 1197 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,680 There would be a few that you know he liked more than others 1198 01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,840 will say. Now, as you said, he did travel 1199 01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,440 with a lot of people, and that was expensive, but that was 1200 01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,160 intentional. He wasn't just throwing money 1201 01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,480 away. He wanted to make sure to remind 1202 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:00,480 people what they were up against. 1203 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,080 This very just a show of force, shock and awe. 1204 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,200 Well, just awe. Not shock so much because 1205 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,160 there's no one. There's no attacking here. 1206 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,680 If he could bring all this just to say, hey, what's up? 1207 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,320 What if there was war? What's he going to bring if we 1208 01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:14,840 actually speak out against him, right. 1209 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:16,600 And. Then they have to picture like, 1210 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,200 who's going to go against this guy? 1211 01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,360 Like, so who's going to be on my side if I go against this guy? 1212 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,120 Like they're all, you know, it's a double, it's a double whammy, 1213 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,160 at least. And you know, to further my 1214 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,920 other point, all these other people he's bringing, they also 1215 01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,240 can form bonds with the different people that he's 1216 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,880 visiting, right? All the soldiers that are coming 1217 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,280 from these different lands, which is again part of what he 1218 01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,240 want. He wants this intermixing of 1219 01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:38,840 cultures. He wants everyone to feel like 1220 01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:40,600 they're part of the whole big same thing. 1221 01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,400 So in just like he might form a bond with a certain Lord, or a 1222 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,640 certain master of arms, or whatever else, all his 1223 01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,120 underlings and soldiers, when they go visit these other 1224 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,960 castles, form these same bonds, give these same connections, 1225 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,760 make it less likely for them to want to go a war with each 1226 01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:56,440 other. Yeah, right. 1227 01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:57,000 Yeah. Absolutely. 1228 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,480 And the other angle here is there's a few houses here and 1229 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,800 there, a few spots here and there that were given over to 1230 01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,280 Valyrian nobles, Harrenhal being the main 1. 1231 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,760 Quentin Coharis, his first wife had died three years prior to 1232 01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,240 two AC, which is when he got the castle. 1233 01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,200 So he married again to a daughter of his own new Lord 1234 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,840 Paramount, Edmund Tully and Quentin, that's Quentin Coharis 1235 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,960 already had a grandson and two sons, so he wasn't a young man 1236 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,480 at the time. And this is interesting just 1237 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,120 because it's a Valyrian descended house marrying into 1238 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,120 the Riverlands and maybe they had some silver hair and so 1239 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,040 there was like a little bit of that going around. 1240 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,080 But it's another thing, like if you befriend this guy Quentin 1241 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,200 Coharis, a guy who was probably pretty close to Aegon. 1242 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,800 It's an in route to befriending the king or having a connection 1243 01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,440 or just a foot in the door. And there would be a few people 1244 01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,440 like that out there that we're already close to Aegon and 1245 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,120 someone who's got a friendship with the king. 1246 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,440 If you can't get access to the king, well, maybe you get access 1247 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,320 to someone that's close to him and vice versa, or or farther 1248 01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,760 down the line. Maybe if you can't get access to 1249 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,280 Quentin Coharis, you get access to his master at arms and maybe 1250 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,000 work your way up. This is that ladder climbing 1251 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,720 that I referred to earlier that a lot of people would be doing 1252 01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,440 and there'd be a lot of opportunity for it because 1253 01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:14,800 again, these are new ladders that haven't been scaled yet. 1254 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:16,000 The. Ladder's higher than it's ever 1255 01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,160 been. Yeah, yeah, right. 1256 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:18,920 That's something Aegon did. Just make a taller. 1257 01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,000 Ladder. Yeah, it's a great point. 1258 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,360 The ladder is higher than it's ever been. 1259 01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,160 You're right. The chaos is a ladder. 1260 01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,400 But the ladder's height is not determined, is not the same 1261 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:26,920 always. Yeah. 1262 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,200 So let's, let's return briefly to this idea of the early court 1263 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,360 and what it was like. Like I said, no, Red Keep. 1264 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,920 There was the Aegon Fort, which wasn't replaced until 35 AC. 1265 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:40,920 So the Aegon Fort. This log structure was there for 1266 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,760 quite a while. Aegon died in 37 AC, so he 1267 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,200 didn't really live in the Red Keep, especially 'cause it was 1268 01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:48,520 barely, it wasn't even finished till 45 AC. 1269 01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:52,480 So when we discuss at court, it's difficult because it's 1270 01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,960 really easy to picture all the different scenes of the Red Keep 1271 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,200 on TV and in your book memory because there's so many book 1272 01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,000 scenes that take place at the Red Keep. 1273 01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,600 But the Aegon Fort is so different. 1274 01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:11,040 It was surely fancy as far as log long hauls, but again, the 1275 01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,320 places these youngsters were raised, showing up there, 1276 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,600 they're like, well this is this is kind of a step down some 1277 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:21,240 foolish few might even be, might even say so out loud I'd be 1278 01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,640 like, well this is, this is, this is way worse than where I 1279 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,600 came from. Like dude, shut up, keep that to 1280 01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,200 yourself. Here's what it actually is 1281 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,400 described as the physical description of that place from 1282 01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,680 the book. The crude motte and Bailey Fort 1283 01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:41,040 that Aegon had thrown up so quickly was neither large enough 1284 01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:45,480 nor grand enough to house the king in his court, and had begun 1285 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,800 to expand even before the Conquest was complete. 1286 01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:54,160 A new keep was erected, all of logs and 50 feet high, with a 1287 01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:59,240 cavernous long haul beneath it and a kitchen made of stone and 1288 01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,800 roofed with slate in case of fire. 1289 01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,040 Across the Bailey, stables appeared. 1290 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,560 Then a granary. A new watchtower was raised 1291 01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:13,520 twice as tall as the older one. Soon the Aegon Fort was 1292 01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:18,200 threatening to burst out of its walls, so a new palisade was 1293 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:22,400 raised in closing more of the hilltop, creating space enough 1294 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:27,160 for a barracks, an Armory, A Sept and a drum tower. 1295 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:31,400 So a lot going on really there. There was quite a bit of 1296 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,400 construction I want. To go to the Drum Tower. 1297 01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,200 What's The Drum Tower? I'll be right at home there, 1298 01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:37,440 yeah. All sorts of drumming, yeah. 1299 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:38,840 Aegon was very big on percussion. 1300 01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,400 Yeah, he was. He was, he was himself a 1301 01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:43,280 drummer. Yeah. 1302 01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,840 And so there's a lot going on here. 1303 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,120 Of course, it's kind of neat to see just the the way that a, a 1304 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:53,320 new area that becomes important starts to grow is. 1305 01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:54,760 It's kind of a fascinating process. 1306 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,080 But just imagine, again, just picture yourself as one of these 1307 01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,560 nobles. They don't even have a stable 1308 01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,280 here. You know, like, no stables. 1309 01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,720 Wow. Like, what is going on here? 1310 01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,320 But then there's again, you see Valerian sitting there and 1311 01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:12,200 you're like, Yep, all right, that's they have that instead. 1312 01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:15,840 They just can't get over that. Like, what would that be like? 1313 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:22,600 You're like a 13 year old, let's say Lannister at this era, there 1314 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,120 wouldn't have been a 13 year old Lannister boy. 1315 01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,680 So we'll say a girl, and you show up and let's say you kind 1316 01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,760 of have that sense of, like, excitement about this, but you 1317 01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:34,160 haven't seen a dragon before. And you're like, Oh my God, that 1318 01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:35,880 thing really is as big as they say. 1319 01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,240 And I will behave because I don't want to have to deal with, 1320 01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,400 like, Aegon's not going to feed anyone to his dragon, especially 1321 01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,400 not some young girl, but she doesn't know that. 1322 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,280 You know, they're going to be inventing things in their heads, 1323 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:46,400 and a lot of it's going to be fear. 1324 01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,240 And their their father and mother would have told them to 1325 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,440 behave. And it's like I'm going off to 1326 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,960 boarding school or something, but it's it's a different sort 1327 01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:55,880 of boarding school. So a lot of people have seen 1328 01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,360 this, but more and more people are getting eyes on the king. 1329 01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,640 Let me quickly describe what a few of these things mean, 1330 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,440 because I think a lot of y'all probably don't know what a Mott 1331 01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:07,120 and Bailey Castle even is. Mott is not, is a raised, is 1332 01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:10,000 raised ground. So like a hill that the castle 1333 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,520 is built on, it can be an artificial hill or one that was 1334 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,600 already there. A Bailey is the courtyard, which 1335 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:19,080 is walls and a ditch meaning a Moat often times where it 1336 01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,840 doesn't have to have water in it, it's not If it doesn't have 1337 01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,200 water in it, it's a dry Moat. But that's a ditch and a dry 1338 01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:28,200 Moat is the same thing. Walls can be made of stone or 1339 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,480 wood or what have you. Then you have a keep itself, so 1340 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,160 you have the Mott, the Bailey and the actual castle slash 1341 01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,440 keep. So that's what the Aegon Fort 1342 01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,120 was. A very basic, simple thing. 1343 01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:43,960 Like when, for example, William the Conqueror took England, he 1344 01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,320 built lots of mountain Bailey castles all over the place to 1345 01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,840 help enforce the new regime 'cause he didn't have the threat 1346 01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:55,760 of Dragons to keep people from rejecting his rule. 1347 01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,840 It was a lot harder for him to get the English to accept his 1348 01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:02,720 rule because yeah, he didn't have some super weapon to 1349 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,120 intimidate everyone to to all help. 1350 01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,480 So by the time he was crowned at Old Town King's Landing was 1351 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,160 quote, several thousand souls. But the book and the book has 1352 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,480 some fun descriptions of specific buildings that went up. 1353 01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,840 We'll we'll check in later in 10 years and 20 years to see how 1354 01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,720 far it's come along. But Aegon Ford had walls, but 1355 01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,319 the King's Landing itself did not. 1356 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,800 And it would be hard to build walls around it because like, 1357 01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:26,720 well, how big is it going to get? 1358 01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:30,040 Where do you put the walls? Where like how much expansion 1359 01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,000 room do you leave? And they were probably a little 1360 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,120 bit, I don't say arrogant, but probably not too worried about 1361 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,040 like who's going to attack. Of all the places to attack, why 1362 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,880 would you attack the place where there's one to three Dragons? 1363 01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,040 Well, you might attack when those Dragons are gone. 1364 01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:45,720 That's the answer. You probably wouldn't do it 1365 01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,279 while they're there. So if you could have 1366 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,120 intelligence on when they're going to be gone and how long 1367 01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:51,960 they're going to be gone, that might be your opportunity and 1368 01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,600 that is going to come up later. So keep that in mind. 1369 01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:58,680 You also have to worry about smaller scale things too. 1370 01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:03,120 Like you know maybe like the Storm land is going to organize 1371 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:07,120 an assault on Kings Landing, but seven bandits in the woods might 1372 01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,359 run in and try good if you got all these resources gathered 1373 01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:11,920 there now. So someone going to come steal 1374 01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,640 some horses or chickens or whatever. 1375 01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,760 So you need to have some sort of security. 1376 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:17,439 Or some horse chickens. They might steal the horse 1377 01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:18,439 chickens. I would. 1378 01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,880 I would be targeting those because, yeah. 1379 01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:25,479 I go for the chicken horses. Not as not as fast, but not as 1380 01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:26,479 big. It's easier to grab. 1381 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,359 Yeah, those are kind of like Bitter Steel's sigil, right? 1382 01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:32,160 The chicken horses, Yeah, you just slight alteration to the 1383 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,520 wings, make them look more chickeny, less Dragon Y. 1384 01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,160 There you go. So there was no, like I said, 1385 01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,680 there was a small council, but it wasn't fully formed. 1386 01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:45,040 It's it's effect on the King wasn't fully established. 1387 01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,160 The roles were still being defined. 1388 01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:48,920 There wasn't yet a Grand Maester. 1389 01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,080 It would happen in the Year 5. So we're close to that And it 1390 01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,080 was Aegon's idea. Each of Aegon, Viceni and 1391 01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:54,560 Rainey's like I said had their own Maester. 1392 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,320 So they were big on that. I said there's just lots of 1393 01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,760 growth right? Land Sea Valaria and Celtigar 1394 01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,360 ships were there often and over time that expanded. 1395 01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,640 You'd see more ships from Duskendale and Gull Town and 1396 01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,960 other spots like that just up and up more and more. 1397 01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,960 So we'll be coming back to this once more time has passed to 1398 01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,840 check in on this growth, like I said, and to watch the 1399 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,800 burgeoning capital of Westeros. Some smart people really got a 1400 01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,240 leg up. But you got to think, Sean, like 1401 01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:27,560 imagine being one of the first guys to like open a a shop there 1402 01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,680 in the city that's eventually going to be the largest in 1403 01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:32,560 Westeros in a pretty short time. Like you could open it in the 1404 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:38,720 Year 5 AC and by the year 25 AC the city's like 100,000 people 1405 01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,480 or more and your business is probably booming. 1406 01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:43,680 You probably just like. But that was a great decision, 1407 01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,560 like a life changing decision that worked out really well. 1408 01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,120 Some smart people, some ambitious people, really like, 1409 01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,720 really made their really would have made their fortunes by 1410 01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,240 moving to King's Landing when it was young and then later too, 1411 01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:58,200 but especially the the, the new people. 1412 01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:02,640 I I can't help but want to point out the Whether you were lucky 1413 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,400 to happen to be there or smart enough to realize how important 1414 01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:07,360 it was to be there, it still takes more. 1415 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,320 You still have to do the work. You have to grow with a 1416 01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,200 business. You have to make that that type 1417 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,560 of growth would have had a lot of adjustments in 20 years, 1418 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,200 right? So a lot of people might have 1419 01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,320 screwed it up and not taking advantage of that opportunity if 1420 01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:18,920 they didn't work hard enough or have enough vision. 1421 01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:19,920 So. Right on, yeah. 1422 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:21,680 And. When you have a city full of 1423 01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:25,040 people who are working hard with a lot of vision, that's a that's 1424 01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,280 a good scenario. Yeah, I bet it was a pretty 1425 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,000 optimistic time. I think it might have been like 1426 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,200 a nice vibe in King's Landing where a lot of people were, you 1427 01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,200 know, nodding to each other on the street and smiling and being 1428 01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:37,800 like, yeah, this is, this is going to be good. 1429 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,600 You know, the the outlook was probably very positive. 1430 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,400 I mean, you're building a new city. 1431 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,080 That seems like a really good thing. 1432 01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,200 You know, like for the most part, yeah, cities have their 1433 01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,200 problems, but it's still an exciting process probably to be 1434 01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,600 a part of. It's something that, like in the 1435 01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,200 modern world, it's hard to imagine like this, all this. 1436 01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,040 Most of the cities are already there. 1437 01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,160 You know, I'm sure there's some some of us out there, some of 1438 01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,800 you out there probably lived in a have either lived in a small 1439 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,280 town that grew a lot larger or maybe the opposite of a town 1440 01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:08,160 that shrank because some large industry left or multiple 1441 01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:09,600 industries or something like that. 1442 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:15,000 Yeah. So if this story of early King's 1443 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,680 Landing touches on some of your own experiences, feel free to 1444 01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,360 share them with us. We love hearing from Y'all, 1445 01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:23,320 especially about things that relate directly to the material. 1446 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:27,680 So, Sean, you, for the last few times that you've been 1447 01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:31,080 describing your drink, you've said you've got magic Mine in 1448 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:32,680 there. How's that working for you? 1449 01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,040 Is it you're making a difference in your life? 1450 01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:39,640 Is it you noticing anything improvement in anything like 1451 01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:41,040 that? Sometimes it's hard to measure 1452 01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:42,920 because there's so many other parts of your diet and your 1453 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:47,040 activity and everything, but it's not been negative in any 1454 01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,200 way. And I do feel like I've had more 1455 01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,200 energy at the gym. I don't even know if that's 1456 01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:54,280 something that they would like, put out there as a benefit, 1457 01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:56,480 'cause I think it's supposed to be more of like a creative 1458 01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,480 stimulant or whatever. But I feel like I have more 1459 01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:01,520 energy at the gym. I don't get as tired, I'm not as 1460 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,160 worn out afterwards, so that's cool. 1461 01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:06,320 That's positive for sure, yeah. We have read and maybe I 1462 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,880 mentioned this already, but we have read that there are a lot 1463 01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,240 of anecdotal custom reports of positive experiences of people 1464 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:17,240 who have had long COVID and that really fits with this 1465 01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:22,280 description of something that is meant to help stimulate parts of 1466 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:25,840 your brain. Yeah, I enjoyed looking at the 1467 01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,880 Facebook comments on their posts, 'cause there was often 1468 01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:32,200 just just people who posted who worked for me or not. 1469 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:35,840 And yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see some folks who 1470 01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:40,160 were like, I've been really low energy since COVID and they they 1471 01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,640 found it to be somewhat helpful. I would guess it's pretty 1472 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,520 helpful for other forms of mild illnesses. 1473 01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,820 Not that COVID is always mild, but sometimes it is And long 1474 01:13:47,820 --> 01:13:51,200 COVID it's pretty serious. But the day-to-day symptoms are. 1475 01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:52,840 The problem is they linger for so long. 1476 01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,280 Not that they're necessarily debilitating, although there are 1477 01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,880 some people in that scenario and I certainly feel for you if 1478 01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:03,120 you're one of those folks. But in terms of minor picking up 1479 01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,280 or just something that this gives you a little boost. 1480 01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,640 Five, 1015% in your day, a little more energy, a little 1481 01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:12,520 like Sean said, maybe that manifests as physical energy. 1482 01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,600 I've seen that before and myself, like sometimes I'm more 1483 01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,600 creative because of my mood. But sometimes, yeah, I just some 1484 01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,600 days I have more energy for exercise than others. 1485 01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,640 And I I don't know what it is but I think a lot of times it's 1486 01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,080 pretty pretty obviously coming from diet and and what you're in 1487 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,560 taking what nutrients you've taken in and Magic mind is just 1488 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,200 full of really positive ingredients that are really good 1489 01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,160 for your brain and other aspects of your body. 1490 01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:40,600 Now this January is a good time for it because you know a lot of 1491 01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:44,280 this is the New Year's this is New Year's resolution season and 1492 01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,800 to me resolutions are more about targets than goals. 1493 01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:51,000 I think you should be a little easy with yourself like B try to 1494 01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,680 make improvements in your life but don't set yourself up to be 1495 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,200 disappointed when you if you don't make it or if you come up 1496 01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,640 a little short. Targets are better than goals. 1497 01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,680 Cause the target you're OK. If you're close to the target, 1498 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,600 like if you aim for a bull's eye and hit the outer ring, that's 1499 01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:04,560 fine. You got pretty close. 1500 01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:06,520 That's that's still an improvement in your life. 1501 01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,760 Even if it's not quite what you aim for, it's still something to 1502 01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,760 be proud of and say, hey my, I'm a little better than I was 1503 01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:15,000 before. So crush your 2024 New Year's 1504 01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,520 resolutions by being a little bit more focused when you take 1505 01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:20,720 them on. You get one month for free when 1506 01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:25,120 you're subscribing for three months at magicmind.com/jan 1507 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,400 Westeros. That's Jan Westeros, and if you 1508 01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,240 add the code Westeros 20, it's an extra 20% off, which gets you 1509 01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:36,160 to around 75% off. That's only good this January 1510 01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:41,080 2024, so hurry up before that deal goes away. 1511 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:45,600 Get those benefits in, get yourself a subscription and see 1512 01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:49,320 how it works for you. I would be optimistic that it 1513 01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:50,480 would make some changes in your life. 1514 01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,720 That's magicmind.com/jan Westeros and use the code 1515 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,800 Westeros 20. All right, let's talk marriages. 1516 01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,440 We talked about fosterings and how a lot of these young people 1517 01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:04,800 at court would be going there in this brave new world. 1518 01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:07,920 Maybe a chance to move up in the world, at least learning new 1519 01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:10,440 things. And there's lots of different 1520 01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,800 ways this can play out, but for some of them, it's going to 1521 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,240 result in marriages. I mean, that's in most of their 1522 01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:20,200 futures anyway. Marriages amongst the nobility 1523 01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:24,000 is well, it's rare that you see people not get married in the 1524 01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,120 year 2 AC Cerise Hightower was born. 1525 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:29,560 She's an important figure during the time of King Megor. 1526 01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,360 After all, she was his first wife and it's the first 1527 01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,560 Targaryen Hightower marriage. And of course that's well before 1528 01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:39,400 the Dance of the Dragons, but it is a bit of set up, or at least 1529 01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:43,720 foreshadowing for that. So Speaking of Aegon's big on 1530 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:47,720 creating alliances, big on creating peace and fostering 1531 01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:52,440 relationships between his new regime and the existing houses. 1532 01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,520 So of course arranged marriages are obviously going to be a big 1533 01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,200 part of this. That's an always long standing 1534 01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:01,760 traditional method of creating alliances is by creating new 1535 01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:04,720 families, these families which have connections to prior 1536 01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,520 existing families and still bear those same surnames. 1537 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:13,680 The right of marriage is a major power granted to kings, Queens, 1538 01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:15,280 Lords and ladies. We've seen that. 1539 01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:19,800 Like it's their explicit right. You know you cannot marry 1540 01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,600 without permission for the most part, even when you're a 1541 01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,480 commoner like Roose. Bolton points that out in his 1542 01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:30,120 really gross description of Ramsay's mother as he's his 1543 01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:34,920 excuse was that they married without his permission. 1544 01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:40,520 So this is very important. Political marriages are very 1545 01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:45,200 valuable in terms of keeping the peace and or gaining and or 1546 01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,760 holding power. Let's hear from the book 1547 01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,800 directly on this one quote. The Targaryens also brokered 1548 01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:56,840 many marriages between noble houses from the far ends of the 1549 01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:01,160 realm in hopes that such alliances would help tie the 1550 01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:06,160 conquered lands together and make the Seven Kingdoms 1 Egons, 1551 01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:10,880 Queens, Visenya and Rainies took a special delight in arranging 1552 01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,280 these matches. Through their efforts, young 1553 01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:18,560 Ronald Aaron, Lord of the Erie, took a daughter of Torrance 1554 01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:23,160 Stark of Winterfell to wed whilst Lauren Lannisters, eldest 1555 01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:28,040 son, heir to Casterly Rock, married a red wine girl from the 1556 01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,640 Arbor. Now recall what I said about the 1557 01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,960 Lannister son there, he said, Lauren Lannister's eldest son. 1558 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,640 Well, remember what Tyrion's quote seems to indicate that 1559 01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,840 Lauren Lannister had no sons at the time of the Field of Fire. 1560 01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:45,720 But you know, Aegon's reign is 37 years long, so certainly kids 1561 01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,120 could have been born. And at this point it says Lauren 1562 01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:50,760 Lannister's eldest son. So there was at least two sons 1563 01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:52,080 by the time this marriage happened. 1564 01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:56,240 So this one was probably much later in the rain, probably not 1565 01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:59,440 during this one years, one to four, almost certainly much 1566 01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:02,960 later on. But the Winterfell Erie match 1567 01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,040 seems to have been early because Rainey's arranged it for one 1568 01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:07,400 thing. That's a clue, because Rainey's 1569 01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:10,160 isn't going to survive the the full reign of Aegon. 1570 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,280 So that narrows down the timeline significantly. 1571 01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,120 So whenever Rainey's arranges a marriage, we know that it has to 1572 01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:17,880 have happened in the first decade. 1573 01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:21,920 But if the Senia marriage is arranges it, well, then the gap 1574 01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:25,720 is much wider. So now it was a big to do this 1575 01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:28,440 marriage between Stark and Aaron. 1576 01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:32,240 The Aaron's, as far as we know, didn't complain about it, at 1577 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:36,040 least not until much later, and it might not have been related 1578 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,000 at all. But Lord Toren, he did not like 1579 01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,680 the idea he was willing to bend the knee to Aegon, but this 1580 01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:46,040 whole marrying his daughter to the the veil he rejected. 1581 01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:47,480 He's like, no, I don't want to do this. 1582 01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:52,600 Somehow he was convinced and I really, really wonder what the 1583 01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,280 convincing was because it was very unpopular in Winterfell, 1584 01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:56,760 like it wasn't just him that was against it. 1585 01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:00,760 His sons didn't attend, and they were also upset about the whole 1586 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,280 bending the knee thing. Which they were probably wrong 1587 01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:07,520 about, but that certainly seems to have fueled their anger over 1588 01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,440 this marriage because it's just more of more capitulation, more 1589 01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:14,800 giving in, more accepting foreign authority for in their 1590 01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,840 minds So. And they're young and, you know, 1591 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,960 full of energy or whatever, and not very full of wisdom, 1592 01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,560 probably, But still, like, what could Rainey's have said, Like, 1593 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,320 you know what? I don't think she gave them 1594 01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:29,760 anything. Like, we're going to give you 1595 01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,920 some money to accept this. I mean, maybe, but I don't know 1596 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:36,040 what she could have possibly said to change his mind that 1597 01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:40,240 wasn't a veiled threat. You know, like what? 1598 01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:41,800 Do you have any ideas here, Sean? 1599 01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,760 Like, well, how do you convince someone this is like, I don't 1600 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,120 want to do this but and you have nothing really to offer, but 1601 01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,080 except you're you do have authority over them. 1602 01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:50,760 Like it's tricky here. I've got a few ideas that maybe 1603 01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,640 she didn't directly give them money, but she might have not 1604 01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:55,840 taken more money. She might have said like, all 1605 01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,560 right, we're going to raise your taxes 5% then, for example, 1606 01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,400 right? Or she might have said, all 1607 01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,680 right, well, here's who we are going to marry him to then, 1608 01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:05,480 right? They might have. 1609 01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:07,280 She might have set up other marriages. 1610 01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:11,440 It would have been worse politically or strategically or 1611 01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:13,920 whatever for the North. I I think there's all kinds of 1612 01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:18,400 ways that she could have without even using direct violence made 1613 01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,240 things worse for the North. And there's a carrot and a 1614 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,120 sticks like or if you do do this then you get this sort of 1615 01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:26,840 alliance. We give you this tax break. 1616 01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:31,240 We don't ask you to send troops to this war whatever, whatever. 1617 01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,600 I I can see all sorts of ways it would have added. 1618 01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:38,240 Also, I suspect he might not have been really that against 1619 01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:40,280 it. He just knew that other people 1620 01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,400 would and he kind of had to be against it for show to make his 1621 01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,840 sons happy. Maybe he knew he was going to 1622 01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,440 break down eventually anyway, if by. 1623 01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:48,960 Protesting. Maybe he gets something out of 1624 01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:49,320 it. Yeah. 1625 01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:52,440 It's like, well, yeah, if he just, if he just says yes, then, 1626 01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:55,160 you know, he gives up an opportunity to to to negotiate 1627 01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:57,640 and get get some sort of recompense. 1628 01:21:57,920 --> 01:21:58,560 That's a good. Yeah. 1629 01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:00,360 So that's pretty good. Now, again, come back to Ned and 1630 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,120 Sansa. Ned was not excited about 1631 01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:06,160 marrying Sansa to Joffrey, not even, not because Joffrey's 1632 01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:07,280 Joffrey. He had no idea what kind of 1633 01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:09,320 personality Joffrey had. He just didn't want to marry her 1634 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:15,640 to the throne at all. And meanwhile, Sansa was all for 1635 01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:17,080 it again. At the time, she didn't know 1636 01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,040 what she was getting into fully. But she's like, yeah, I want to 1637 01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:21,600 do that now. If you're a young Stark girl in 1638 01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:25,360 this new world of the Starks are no longer kings and Queens, 1639 01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:30,480 well, an errand marriage, if she's being realistic, she knows 1640 01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:31,760 she's going to get married to somebody. 1641 01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,160 They're going to make her marry somebody like, well, I'm getting 1642 01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,880 married to the veil, do a lot worse than that. 1643 01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,960 So maybe she was all for it, maybe not. 1644 01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,400 I don't know, like this is a completely imaginary person who 1645 01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:46,600 we know zero about their personality or even how old they 1646 01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:49,080 were. But if we're exploring the range 1647 01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:53,160 of options here, you can imagine that she would have at least 1648 01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:54,760 noticed that it could have been a lot worse. 1649 01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,160 Yeah, that. Not only is the Veil 1650 01:22:58,440 --> 01:23:01,160 prestigious, wealthy, whatever, but also they're closer to home. 1651 01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,600 Yeah, like you want to get married to someone from the Iron 1652 01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,960 Islands. Like, what are your That's 1653 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,160 another thing that they might have just discussed. 1654 01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:11,400 Like, like you said, you know you're getting married 1655 01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:12,120 eventually. Who? 1656 01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,000 What are your options? Who do you think it's going to 1657 01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:15,440 be? Let's run through them. 1658 01:23:15,440 --> 01:23:18,280 What are the pros and cons like this one we're proposing is the 1659 01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:21,760 best one anyway, right? And Torrent could see this even 1660 01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,800 though it upsets his sons. Not to mention, like you said, 1661 01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,520 he could get some angle from the negotiation. 1662 01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:30,880 He she might have other veiled threats in there, or ways to 1663 01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,240 manipulate things to make it better or worse for him. 1664 01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,840 But just the other potential candidates just running through 1665 01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:38,840 the list might have been enough to convince him so. 1666 01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:40,720 Yeah, that's true. That's very true. 1667 01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:43,280 Now, as similar as it might seem on the surface, meaning the 1668 01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:45,400 marriages and fosterings is something that we're all very 1669 01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,360 familiar with. Is actually a huge difference in 1670 01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:52,080 after the conquest versus before, especially for great 1671 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:53,160 houses. Let's talk about them 1672 01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:54,840 individually first, marriages. OK. 1673 01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,680 If you're a Lannister Princess and you marry a rain house, rain 1674 01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,840 lordling, that's no big deal. Sure, there's exceptions like 1675 01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:04,040 Tywin, but they're extremely rare. 1676 01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:06,520 You don't go against your king except in extreme circumstances, 1677 01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:08,560 in part because they're almost always far more powerful than 1678 01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:10,680 you. So you need a lot of help to to 1679 01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:13,080 even consider doing so. And in the case of the West, 1680 01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,320 Catholic Rock is just overwhelming in terms of its its 1681 01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,040 its position as a holder of power and wealth. 1682 01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,320 It's just so hard to take on Cassidy Rock if a Lannister 1683 01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:25,960 Princess married a Prince of the Reach. 1684 01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,840 Now this could be really good for peace between those two 1685 01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,560 regions, right? Remember, this is pre conquest 1686 01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,680 we're talking about, but it can be awkward because war between 1687 01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,600 the Reach and the Rock was not uncommon. 1688 01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:41,240 So what if you're that Princess? Your family is now the enemy, 1689 01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:43,800 the family you just came from. It's not great for your husband 1690 01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,280 and children either, of course, because your husband is caught 1691 01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:48,760 between two worlds. Your children are of that other 1692 01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,760 family too. Again, we come back to Sansa. 1693 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,200 In her case, she was not technically yet married to 1694 01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:59,840 Joffrey, so that helped her get out of the situation, but it was 1695 01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:04,120 still very much the same. Like, she's at court at first, 1696 01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,120 she's proud to be there and everyone's happy to have her 1697 01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:08,920 there for the most part. But then all of a sudden her 1698 01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:12,480 family is viewed as traitors and she's like, everyone's like 1699 01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:15,040 looking at her funny and no one wants to talk to her, 'cause 1700 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:16,800 they don't want to be associated with treason. 1701 01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,200 And Joffrey's picking on her even worse than he was before, 1702 01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:20,880 abusing her worse than he was before. 1703 01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:24,480 It's not like Cersei's being very nice either, so it just 1704 01:25:24,480 --> 01:25:27,320 really flipped on its head. And that's was one of many 1705 01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:30,880 things that went bad for Sansa at court. 1706 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:35,240 So using her as an example, this would have happened many times 1707 01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:36,440 in the history of the Seven Kingdoms. 1708 01:25:36,440 --> 01:25:40,080 On a smaller scale without an Iron Throne it can still happen 1709 01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:45,000 like these pre kind of marriage. A Highgarden Rock marriage. 1710 01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:49,080 Well, the house Rain isn't very likely to try to take on Castley 1711 01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:53,720 Rock, but Highgarden might. So these wars aren't like 1712 01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,840 stymied by the fact that it would be insane to do it 1713 01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:59,440 Highgarden. It's not insane for Highgarden 1714 01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:02,400 to go to war with the Rock, but it might be insane for for house 1715 01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,560 Rain to do so. So yeah. 1716 01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:08,280 A little bit of a tangent, but I do want to point out a lot of 1717 01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,800 times these marriages are sort of like the fosterings that yes, 1718 01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:14,520 they're a hostage, they're really a hostage, you know? 1719 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:16,720 They kind of are. Hopefully you fall in love, 1720 01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:20,000 Hopefully it maintains peace, but it's what it sort of comes 1721 01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,440 down to. Especially during the betrothal 1722 01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:23,640 phase, once the marriage actually happens and once 1723 01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:25,880 there's children in the mix, it's it's it's harder to 1724 01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,040 consider that you know, you're you're killing your own people 1725 01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:30,360 at that point. If you execute a girl that has 1726 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,880 already fathered children in your dynasty, that's you can't 1727 01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:34,320 go that that's that's too far at that point. 1728 01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:37,120 But you're right before that that phase like the phase answer 1729 01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:39,520 was in when it wasn't too late then there's a lot of risk 1730 01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:44,720 you're right and and it is more of a hostage situation so and 1731 01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:47,000 it's not also it's not like marriages from one Kingdom to 1732 01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:50,920 another were common anyway in the in the era of pre conquest. 1733 01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,320 It's not like Kings of the Rock married their daughters to 1734 01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,760 Princess of Highgarden very often. 1735 01:26:57,760 --> 01:26:59,280 But it it would have happened sometimes. 1736 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:03,240 But now it started happening often because the Targaryens 1737 01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:05,320 were making it happen. They were forcing it to happen. 1738 01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:06,800 They were like, you don't have a choice. 1739 01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:10,720 Just like if the Kings of Highgarden were like, OK, House 1740 01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:12,760 Oakhart, you're marrying House Hightower. 1741 01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:14,440 They were like, Yep, all right, that's what we're doing. 1742 01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:18,000 And they might protest and like, like the Starks did to get a 1743 01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,040 little negotiating room, but ultimately they're going to 1744 01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:22,600 pretty much have to do it. And same thing is true here. 1745 01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,680 The Targaryens are going to make you do it. 1746 01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:30,560 You might not want to say no, but there's a lot less risk 1747 01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:35,120 because it's like an S It's like an escrow situation where your 1748 01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,920 son and your daughter, the son and the daughter are both held 1749 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:41,560 by the king and the queen, not by the other house. 1750 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,000 Like, you either have the Lannister girl at hostage at 1751 01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:48,240 Highgarden or vice versa, but here they're both at the well. 1752 01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:52,360 I was going to say the Red keep the Aegon Fort, and that means 1753 01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:54,520 neither side has them as a hostage. 1754 01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,400 The King has them as a hostage, which he's unlikely to execute 1755 01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,160 either of them because it's not really in his best interest. 1756 01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,440 So they both can feel a lot safer with that arrangement than 1757 01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:05,120 they could have in the Seven Kingdoms era. 1758 01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:08,920 Because there's not this awkwardness of constant border 1759 01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:12,720 skirmishes and and minor wars that break out where these 1760 01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,160 families get put in awkward positions as vis A vis their 1761 01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,440 prior connections. Instead it's all done under the 1762 01:28:17,480 --> 01:28:20,600 auspices of House Targaryen which guarantees the peace 1763 01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,120 between both sides because again of their Dragons, mostly because 1764 01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,160 the Dragons other things too. But that's the big one. 1765 01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:28,840 Fostering's, it's very simple. Well, it's just huge that it can 1766 01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:31,760 build important relationships. So the relationships generally 1767 01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,000 won't be as strong as a marriage, but sometimes they're 1768 01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:36,680 close. Robert and Ned were great 1769 01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,280 friends. They weren't as close as 1770 01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:41,960 spouses, but they were pretty big friendship there, Pretty 1771 01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:43,560 important. You could argue that 1772 01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:45,600 relationship was closer than a lot of marriages. 1773 01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:46,720 Like maybe? Yeah. 1774 01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:49,880 Ned did abandoned his home and family to go down to King's 1775 01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:52,360 Landing and put his life and other people's life on the line 1776 01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:54,320 to try to do what he thought was right for Robert. 1777 01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,960 You know, it was it's hard to get much stronger than what he 1778 01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,480 was doing. Yeah, yeah. 1779 01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:02,080 I think it was probably more more for Ned than for Robert. 1780 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:05,080 Although to be fair, it was Catelyn's idea for Ned to go in 1781 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:07,720 the book and Ned's in the show that that's one thing that gets 1782 01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,080 confusing because it's reversed. But either way, you're right. 1783 01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:11,480 I mean that's you're you're right either way. 1784 01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,800 It was strong enough that Robert expected him to go, even if it 1785 01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,800 turned out to be Caitlin pushing it. 1786 01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:21,560 Robert took his whole court to the North to visit his old war. 1787 01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:23,280 But. Yeah, that's true. 1788 01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:26,040 I mean, and look at some of the examples of fostering that just 1789 01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:29,320 have a huge impact on the character in both positive and 1790 01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:32,440 negative ways. Theon, I mean huge example 1791 01:29:32,440 --> 01:29:33,440 there. I mean Theon's a massive 1792 01:29:33,440 --> 01:29:36,440 example, maybe even the biggest because it plays out, we see it, 1793 01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:39,200 some of it play out in front of us, whereas Ned and Roberts a 1794 01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:41,760 big one. But that's all in the past. 1795 01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,720 We don't see it play out, we just see the effect of it. 1796 01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:46,720 We see it 1520 years later, Jamie. 1797 01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:51,480 We get a little of both because we see in his POV, we see some 1798 01:29:51,480 --> 01:29:54,040 of his thoughts on that, like flashbacks to when he was a page 1799 01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:57,960 and a Squire and is now in a position to have many pages and 1800 01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,840 Squires of his own who were sent to him by a lot of houses that 1801 01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:02,360 want to get in good with the Lannisters. 1802 01:30:02,480 --> 01:30:04,640 So think about that, How many houses are trying to get in good 1803 01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,600 with the Lannisters now that they're the kings and Queens, 1804 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:08,760 right now that they're the royal house? 1805 01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,120 Well, this would have been the same scenario here with Aegon 1806 01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:13,800 and Visenia and Rainey's, where they're like a lot of houses are 1807 01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:20,760 like eager to send their young kids to get in good with the new 1808 01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,080 regime. It's not just like we better do 1809 01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:24,240 this or we're going to be in trouble. 1810 01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,800 No, it's like we should do this. It's good for us. 1811 01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:30,000 Or at least it's good for this of our this one child of ours. 1812 01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,000 It's another carrot stick type thing, yes. 1813 01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:35,240 And you would rather anyone wise enough to see it that way would 1814 01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,040 be like, well, I would rather have the carrot, you know. 1815 01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,240 It's not good for my pride necessarily but the but the 1816 01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:42,640 carrot beats the stick every time. 1817 01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:44,520 If you're faced with it, if you have your way with all the. 1818 01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,280 Carrot, actually. Good point. 1819 01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:49,760 Yeah, the stick is the one that beats. 1820 01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,120 You're right. Yeah, I gotta Carrots are for 1821 01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:56,120 eating, Sticks are for beating, eating, beating you. 1822 01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:57,680 You see, it's an easy mistake to make. 1823 01:30:57,680 --> 01:30:59,400 I don't know how you handle your carrot, but you. 1824 01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:03,000 Beat your carrot. Well, getting into euphemisms 1825 01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:09,920 here, Dang, where is this going? So now and then compare to Danny 1826 01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:14,640 again, we're we're back to Danny and Maureen, who also has lots 1827 01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:19,320 of maybe not pages and Squires, but lots of cup bearers and 1828 01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:21,880 handmaidens and stuff like that. Here's a quote. 1829 01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:26,760 We must keep them safe as well. I will have two children from 1830 01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:30,520 each of them from the other pyramids as well, a boy and a 1831 01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,280 girl. Hostages. 1832 01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:36,880 Said Shakaz happily. Pages and cup bearers, If the 1833 01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:41,400 great masters make objection, explain to them that in Westeros 1834 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:45,520 it is a great honor for a child to be chosen to serve at court. 1835 01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:50,480 Yep, it's that is a that is a major parallel right there. 1836 01:31:50,480 --> 01:31:52,720 Except for that. The difference would be that a 1837 01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,880 lot of the great masters would make wouldn't be as excited 1838 01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:59,200 about this as a lot of the Lords and ladies of Westeros would be 1839 01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:00,200 like. Oh, opportunity. 1840 01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:02,600 Great masters are like, I don't know if this is opportunity or 1841 01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:04,240 not. Some of them might see it that 1842 01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:07,520 way, but others are like, we're all working to overthrow this 1843 01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:09,920 lady, so we might not want our children there when this all 1844 01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:11,880 goes down. So maybe we don't want our kids 1845 01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,040 there. But the Lords of Westeros, for 1846 01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:15,600 the most part, aren't planning rebellion. 1847 01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:17,800 But some of those, you're right. Some of those great masters 1848 01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:23,200 might realize that, oh hey, I'm trying to set up a marriage for 1849 01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:28,000 my young son, and maybe he can meet someone and make a 1850 01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:29,920 connection. Or they might see that they can 1851 01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:32,280 mingle. I feel like the lesser houses 1852 01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,680 would be to them, they'd see it as an opportunity to move up on 1853 01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:37,880 the ladder, whereas the the ones with the most to lose and 1854 01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:40,120 nowhere to go up would be the ones that would be resistant. 1855 01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:43,800 To follow that up, the latter thing we were talking earlier 1856 01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:48,640 and another, I don't know, contrast between Danny and Aegon 1857 01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:53,120 is that he built a bunch of new ladders and the ladders that 1858 01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,520 were there before got higher than they were before. 1859 01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,520 Yeah, Danny is just like one new ladder. 1860 01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:01,320 This might be a little bit higher maybe, right. 1861 01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:05,120 Some ladders got knocked down like it's a it's not as clear 1862 01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:07,040 and obvious. All these benefits that you're 1863 01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:10,080 going to get from getting in good with Danny, as it was with 1864 01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:11,480 Aegon. That's a great point because 1865 01:33:11,480 --> 01:33:14,040 Aegon was there to stay, whereas they they kind of know Danny is 1866 01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:17,120 going to leave eventually for Westeros, right? 1867 01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:18,640 So there's that. And even if she was going to. 1868 01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:20,040 Stay. She knows she's going to leave 1869 01:33:20,040 --> 01:33:22,320 eventually, right? Like, it's not like they're 1870 01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:25,200 saying something that she's not going to agree with. 1871 01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:26,840 True. That's true. 1872 01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,160 And and even if she was going to stay, she's staying in this 1873 01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,360 place that, at least in a short term, is getting kind of torn 1874 01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:36,600 down, right, Like, and I think it's worth it for the morality 1875 01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:38,480 and in the long run will probably be bigger. 1876 01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:42,400 But in Westeros, things are clearly better immediately. 1877 01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:44,280 Like there's this whole new city being built. 1878 01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:47,280 There's peace all around. He he's investing. 1879 01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:50,880 He's there's all these new good, positive things from almost 1880 01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:55,000 every angle are happening. Whereas for Danny, it's it's 1881 01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:57,280 just turmoil. It's just turmoil and people 1882 01:33:57,280 --> 01:33:59,360 resisting. And she hasn't brought this 1883 01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:03,600 whole new advancement of their society or peace. 1884 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:05,040 They had peace all right. You know what I mean? 1885 01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:08,160 It's a but for the people in charge that are going to be the 1886 01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:09,600 nobles, getting kids or whatever. 1887 01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,480 For the average person it might be better, but even for them it 1888 01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,280 wasn't clearly obviously better. So. 1889 01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,080 She's in a much tougher scenario in a million different. 1890 01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:20,440 Ways I agree it's it's there are a lot of parallels, but there's 1891 01:34:20,440 --> 01:34:24,120 also a lot of differences. The Dragons are not that large. 1892 01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:26,520 They're not that intimidating. So they're the slavers aren't as 1893 01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:28,720 worried about that. You're right as well that I 1894 01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:33,160 think I'd say that Slavers Bay is a lot more corrupt then 1895 01:34:33,440 --> 01:34:35,000 Westeros. Plenty of things wrong with 1896 01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:36,680 Westeros. We've criticized plenty of 1897 01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:38,520 social institutions. You can criticize plenty of 1898 01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:40,560 cultural attitudes, but I think you could. 1899 01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:44,240 I think most people look at Marine as worse just for the 1900 01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:48,120 just because of slavery, which is a fair estimation in my 1901 01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:49,840 opinion. So yeah, it's a lot, lot bigger 1902 01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:51,440 a difference. And to give Danny credit, 1903 01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:54,000 because it's some of this might sound like she's messing up. 1904 01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:58,200 And, you know, maybe she is. But my point is that she has 1905 01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:04,240 this difficult righteous goal, which maybe Aegon had two, but 1906 01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:08,080 his goal basically is to like unite this land for the sake of 1907 01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:12,400 future prosperity, where her goal is to end slavery. 1908 01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:17,400 And I think her goal is tougher. Does that make sense? 1909 01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:20,680 I think it's more important and more tough, right? 1910 01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:21,760 I. Absolutely agree with that. 1911 01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:23,560 Yeah. And and you can see like in this 1912 01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:27,040 lesson of Danny gets us back to Aegon and why he was maybe 1913 01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:30,880 cautious of not that he learned from her, obviously, but he saw 1914 01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:33,360 into the future and saw Denny's troubles in Marine was like, you 1915 01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:36,080 know what, I'm going to handle Westeros differently now. 1916 01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:39,600 He didn't want to make change too many things too quickly. 1917 01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:42,640 And like, you know, one of those examples of them was like he 1918 01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,080 maybe he should have changed first night like as quickly as 1919 01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:47,400 possible, because that is an ugly, ugly institution. 1920 01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:50,800 It was addressed later, but he was more concerned about things 1921 01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:53,240 that would start wars. And as bad as first night is, 1922 01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:54,720 it's probably not going to start any wars. 1923 01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,960 It's just just a really awful thing that happens to peasants. 1924 01:35:58,160 --> 01:35:59,680 But I don't think it's ever started a war. 1925 01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:03,880 So that's probably why he put it on a on a lower rung of 1926 01:36:04,480 --> 01:36:06,280 priority. The all the overall point is 1927 01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:07,640 he's not trying to rock the boat now. 1928 01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:11,520 Danny is rocking the boat as a lot because there's bigger 1929 01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:13,840 problems there. There's more reforming that's 1930 01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:18,640 needed like you said And yeah, as aggressive as he Egon was on 1931 01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:22,240 the battlefield, he was not as aggressive. 1932 01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:27,880 It was more of a soft, he was more soft power like do what we 1933 01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:29,240 want or else. But he's not. 1934 01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,560 He's relying on them not to test the OR else. 1935 01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:34,280 And for the most part they don't. 1936 01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,680 Whereas in Danny they do. They they call her bluff on the 1937 01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:39,800 children hostages. She's like, Danny's not going to 1938 01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:42,600 kill these children. We can, we can make a move and 1939 01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,360 she will decide not to kill these children because she's 1940 01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:49,440 Danny and they were right. She they they break some of the 1941 01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:51,360 deals and she's like, yeah, I'm not killing these children. 1942 01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:55,000 So Danny probably should have handled that different in the 1943 01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,600 1st place, but that's that's another story. 1944 01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:59,440 But good on her for not killing children, obviously. 1945 01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:04,360 I also, I'm pretty sure that first night wasn't as pervasive 1946 01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:07,680 as a problem. That's. 1947 01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:10,800 That's true. It was way more slavery than the 1948 01:37:10,800 --> 01:37:12,160 first night. Yeah, that's very. 1949 01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:13,040 True as well. You're right. 1950 01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,000 Like yeah first night was sort of kept on the down low even 1951 01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,920 when it was allowed and and slavery is the policy of their 1952 01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:22,000 government like the main like their their their the harpy 1953 01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:24,680 carries chains. You know, it's like shackles. 1954 01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:26,920 It's it's it couldn't be more blatant than that. 1955 01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:32,680 But it wasn't just marriages of the Great Houses. 1956 01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:39,280 Vicenia and Rainey's were making marriages for other ranking 1957 01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:41,880 houses and even people who didn't have much rank at all 1958 01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:46,320 quote. When three girls triplets were 1959 01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:50,680 born to the even star of Tarth, Queen Rainey's arranged 1960 01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:54,640 betrothals for them with House Corbray, House Hightower, and 1961 01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:58,400 House Harlow. Queen Vicenia brokered a double 1962 01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:02,720 wedding between House Blackwood and House Bracken, rivals whose 1963 01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:07,120 history of enmity went back centuries, matching a son of 1964 01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:10,920 each house with a daughter of the other to seal a piece 1965 01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,760 between them. And when a Rowan girl in 1966 01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:18,400 Rainey's service found herself with child by a Scullion, the 1967 01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:22,720 queen found a knight to marry her in White Harbor and another 1968 01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:26,760 in Lanisport who was willing to take on her bastard as a foster 1969 01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:30,080 leg. So it should follow as well that 1970 01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:34,360 while houses like the Starks and the Lannisters, the Great Houses 1971 01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:38,400 have some ability to object to these marriage negotiations or 1972 01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:41,880 to at least use get a little leverage through their objection 1973 01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:43,400 because their objection won't hold. 1974 01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:46,600 These lesser houses don't really have much say here at all. 1975 01:38:46,600 --> 01:38:50,160 They're just like, Yep, OK, well we're we're doing what you say. 1976 01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:53,520 The wording makes it sound like those Tarth triplets were 1977 01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:55,600 betrothed. Like right away it says when 1978 01:38:55,640 --> 01:39:00,040 three girls were born. You would think actually those 1979 01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:01,760 patrols would come later when they're a little older, but 1980 01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:03,240 maybe not. Maybe they're just like jumping 1981 01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:04,840 all over this, like getting ahead of it. 1982 01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:09,480 And if that's the case, then it really implies a lot of 1983 01:39:09,480 --> 01:39:12,800 aggression here, really, in making these matches, like they 1984 01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:16,400 were finding any unmarried children, no matter how young 1985 01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:18,320 they were, and making betrothed. Those are marriages and just 1986 01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:22,360 doing as much as possible. But it it could be an unintended 1987 01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:25,040 meaning the way that sentence was written and maybe these 1988 01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:27,160 girls were betrothed at a more typical age. 1989 01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:31,360 Looking at the choices, though, it's not exactly equal outcome 1990 01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:34,960 for these triplets, right? One girl has to go to Harlow and 1991 01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:38,200 she's probably like, really? I got to go to the Iron Islands 1992 01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:41,400 while one of my sisters gets to go to the Hightower? 1993 01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:45,000 Come on, that's not fair. But yeah, her family might not 1994 01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:47,560 have been happy with it either, but again, they have little they 1995 01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:49,840 could do about it. Now, it's possible the Ironborn 1996 01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:52,680 had a little more prestige than we think of because of Heron and 1997 01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:54,960 his ancestors had so recently been so dominant. 1998 01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:58,440 But in general, people look down on the Iron Isles. 1999 01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,160 Harlot, to be fair, is the richest of all the Iron Isles, 2000 01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:05,240 of all the all the houses in in the Iron Isles, perhaps, but it 2001 01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:09,280 would still be remote. Especially, or maybe not to a 2002 01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:11,560 person born on Tarth, since they're both islands, but that's 2003 01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:14,080 the other side of Westeros. You know, an island on one on 2004 01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:15,360 the east versus an island on the West. 2005 01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,760 Despite the incongruity of Hightower versus Harla, it's yet 2006 01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:21,760 another high tower marriage. So that's interesting. 2007 01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:24,560 And Corbray? That's a perfectly promulent 2008 01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:26,840 match on paper, I suppose. Hopefully she didn't get someone 2009 01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:29,000 like Lynn Corbray, though as a as a husband, that wouldn't be 2010 01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:31,360 great. If the girls were older, they 2011 01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:34,200 may have had some choice. Like which of them got to do 2012 01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,480 which like they? They drew shark strong, was 2013 01:40:37,480 --> 01:40:40,360 intrigued by pirates and wanted to go to the Iron Islands or 2014 01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:41,680 something like. That that's true, maybe, you 2015 01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:44,760 never know. And I I wonder too if it was 2016 01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:48,200 like A and opportunity they jumped on because it was 2017 01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:50,600 triplets. You know if they're if they're 2018 01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:53,600 like we have these three houses, we need to find some triplets, 2019 01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:54,360 that's it. Perfect. 2020 01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:56,920 You know, or. It is a very unusual thing. 2021 01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:58,600 Triplets. Yeah, like that's that's. 2022 01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:02,160 Also unusual that this is like pointed out to us, this is an 2023 01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,280 anecdote that's included in the history. 2024 01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:08,840 So I, I, I, I do kind of think it's like you're saying is to 2025 01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:13,080 demonstrate the aggressiveness they were they had with these 2026 01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:15,840 marriage arrangements. Also, of course, this Bracken 2027 01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:17,480 Blackwood marriage is very notable now. 2028 01:41:17,480 --> 01:41:21,880 It's one made by Vicinia, so it's potentially much later in 2029 01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,360 Aegon's reign, but it's very important, so let's look at it. 2030 01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:26,920 Regardless of when it happened, it would have a similar effect. 2031 01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:29,880 Now we need to look back at some recent history in the Riverlands 2032 01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:31,680 to set the stage here with this context. 2033 01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:34,360 The Brackens and Blackwoods, of course, had gone to war many 2034 01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:37,840 times in history, but it there had been one fairly recently, 2035 01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:40,480 just before the Conquest, less than a decade before the 2036 01:41:40,480 --> 01:41:42,880 Conquest. Now, normally they'd have been 2037 01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:46,040 allowed to go at it, just go ahead and fight each other. 2038 01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:49,080 But they went too far. They were a bit foolish with it. 2039 01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:51,360 Go figure. A war went too far. 2040 01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:54,680 That never happens, right? But they disturbed their legs. 2041 01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:57,920 Lord's plan specifically, they caused a delay in the building 2042 01:41:58,440 --> 01:42:00,160 of hair and all. That's a no, no. 2043 01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:02,280 Hair in the black would have not would have normally. 2044 01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:03,520 Just, yeah, go ahead and fight each other. 2045 01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:06,040 I don't care. But because their war 2046 01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:08,520 interrupted the building of Heron Hall, he got very upset 2047 01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:11,440 and he had been waiting a while. Remember, it took four decades 2048 01:42:11,440 --> 01:42:14,360 to make that castle and this was past the three decade mark. 2049 01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:17,320 He might have been a bit anxious about getting it done before he 2050 01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:19,360 died of old age or something like that. 2051 01:42:19,480 --> 01:42:21,560 Now the real irony to the completion of Heron Hall, of 2052 01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:24,320 course, is much more brutal. But I digress. 2053 01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:28,120 King Heron put a stop to the Blackwood Bracken war and 2054 01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:31,600 punished them both further. Which we're not told what that 2055 01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:36,920 punishment meant, but it was probably violent and and strong 2056 01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:39,560 and heavy-handed. Perhaps this along with the 2057 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:42,240 losses suffered from them fighting each other, which 2058 01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:45,200 apparently got out of hand because it was pretty violent, 2059 01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:47,720 maybe more so than a usual conflict between Bracket and 2060 01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:51,080 Blackwood. So they both fell back into a 2061 01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:56,000 time of loss of precede, like they were recovering from this 2062 01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:58,280 double whammy of fighting each other and getting punished by 2063 01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:00,840 King Heron. This is a big part of why, if 2064 01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:03,800 you recall, the Tullys were at the forefront when the 2065 01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:07,400 opportunity to switch to King Aegon over King Heron came along 2066 01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:11,640 because those two usual suspects, suspects, suspects, 2067 01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:14,440 the Brackens and Blackwoods lacked their usual strength in 2068 01:43:14,440 --> 01:43:16,080 order to, you know, they had to sit back. 2069 01:43:16,240 --> 01:43:19,600 Of course neither Bracken nor Blackwood took casualties during 2070 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:22,400 the conquest because of this. So that was the the good side of 2071 01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:24,760 that for them. So by the time this interim 2072 01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:27,760 phase that we're focusing on today came around, they had 2073 01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:30,800 probably recovered like a whole nother generation of of people 2074 01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:32,920 would have been born by then and and the young men would have 2075 01:43:32,920 --> 01:43:34,440 grown up and the young women would have grown up. 2076 01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:38,520 And again this marriage could have happened like 33 AC or 2077 01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:40,840 something. It could happen much later let 2078 01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:43,120 down the line. So the Brackens and Blackwoods 2079 01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:45,800 would have both had numerous famous figure. 2080 01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:50,240 Rather they have over time had many famous figures at court 2081 01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:54,440 over the years, like, you know, Bitter Steel and Bloodraven. 2082 01:43:54,440 --> 01:43:56,480 Of course those come along much later, but there were people 2083 01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:59,440 earlier than that too. Maybe Vicenia's marriage, which 2084 01:43:59,440 --> 01:44:02,360 was again a double marriage, one son from each house, one 2085 01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:05,160 daughter from each house, might have helped set up. 2086 01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:09,560 It might have even been made between individuals who were 2087 01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,320 already at court. You may have been like Vicenia 2088 01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:15,560 may have seen them day-to-day here and there and then like, 2089 01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:18,000 you know what these, these these people, these brackets of Black 2090 01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,520 Wiz are always arguing. They're always fighting. 2091 01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:23,400 I know, let's make them marry. That'll, that'll put a stop to 2092 01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:24,640 that. And you wonder like where the 2093 01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:27,520 brackens and black ones at court like, were they fighting each 2094 01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:28,960 other? Were they like not associate? 2095 01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:30,080 Were they just keeping their distance? 2096 01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:32,480 So it'd be interesting to see how they behaved in a neutral 2097 01:44:32,480 --> 01:44:34,800 but highly controlled environment, like like court. 2098 01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:37,640 That's what I was going to say, that this younger generation, 2099 01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:39,960 you know, we don't exactly know how young they were, but they 2100 01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:42,960 probably weren't 30 years old, you know, whether than that they 2101 01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:47,880 were 7 or 17, but they still were removed from the biases 2102 01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:49,080 that they would have had at home. 2103 01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:52,640 They would have gotten to know the people from the other houses 2104 01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:55,240 for who they were, not for what their house was. 2105 01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:00,640 And they maybe hadn't been told the stories or or as many of the 2106 01:45:00,640 --> 01:45:04,600 stories or whatever stories they have been told might not be 2107 01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:07,560 enough to overcome the personal connection they have with the 2108 01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:10,200 other individual standing in front of it. 2109 01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:12,440 That's a good point. It would be a good way. 2110 01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:15,800 Especially, there may be a more extreme example, Bracks and 2111 01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:17,760 Blackwood's. But all these people at court, 2112 01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:21,120 or getting this opportunity to meet each other's people without 2113 01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,560 all these biases of their houses and their histories, which is 2114 01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:26,920 Aegon's intention, right? He's trying to Hey, we're all 2115 01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:29,440 from Westeros, not the Stormlands or the Brackens or 2116 01:45:29,440 --> 01:45:30,640 whatever. And you're right and that's 2117 01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:32,840 that's really important because and it's again I repeat that 2118 01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:35,520 it's at a neutral location. They're not like all they're not 2119 01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:40,360 at the court of of Highgarden where the bias is pretty tilted 2120 01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:45,640 towards reach culture and favoring the reach and etcetera. 2121 01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:48,720 So this is yeah this is a neutral new spot and that's 2122 01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:51,840 really important a Bracken Knight would some 40 plus years 2123 01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:53,720 later. So join Magar Magor's 2124 01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:55,560 Kingsguard. Let's not forget that's 2125 01:45:55,560 --> 01:45:58,480 Vesenia's son and the white cloaks were her creation. 2126 01:45:58,480 --> 01:46:00,200 So there's another kind of tie in here. 2127 01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:04,160 Then again, that same Bracken Knight would again eventually 2128 01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:06,880 flip to Jarry's, but so did a lot of people. 2129 01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:09,800 And then again, again, another Bracken would fight against 2130 01:46:09,800 --> 01:46:12,720 Megor in his famous trial by 7 at the beginning of his reign. 2131 01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:15,200 So yeah, the brackets are just popping up all over. 2132 01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:16,680 That's how they do. They're a big house. 2133 01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:20,840 Speaking of children and marriages, let's think of and 2134 01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:22,880 and of Megor. And there's the OFT repeated 2135 01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:26,960 note that Aegon spent ten nights with Rainey's for everyone with 2136 01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:29,200 Vicenya. I would guess that became a 2137 01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:32,720 thing of note because so much depended on whatever children 2138 01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:35,720 were produced from one or both of the royal unions. 2139 01:46:36,120 --> 01:46:39,320 We talked about this a while ago, and the tension and the 2140 01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:41,880 anxiety would just be building with every year that passed 2141 01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:45,600 without any sort of issue whatsoever from this royal 2142 01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:48,400 house, no kids. That's going to make people 2143 01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:51,160 nervous. Like, as amazing as this new 2144 01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:53,240 regime was shaping up and all the opportunities it was 2145 01:46:53,240 --> 01:46:55,280 creating, there's there's got to be some sense of this. 2146 01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:57,680 Could all fall apart if. They don't have someone to pass 2147 01:46:57,680 --> 01:47:00,200 it down to. That is a clear choice. 2148 01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:02,400 If there's any doubt in the succession, which there 2149 01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:05,160 definitely will be, if there's no kids at all, it could turn, 2150 01:47:05,160 --> 01:47:08,800 it could all just go belly up. And all this, this new peace 2151 01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:12,720 could turn into a massive, continent wide civil. 2152 01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:15,240 War. One option they might have had, 2153 01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:19,480 However much people thought about this, is they could rather 2154 01:47:19,480 --> 01:47:23,920 than like pass the throne on to someone, they get to pass the 2155 01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:26,800 Dragons on to someone. And that might not be so easy 2156 01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:28,240 either. They might not be able to pick 2157 01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:31,600 the person they think will be a wise leader and then also have 2158 01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:32,800 that person bond with the dragon. 2159 01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:36,640 That might not be so easily said than done, but everyone doesn't 2160 01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:39,320 necessarily understand that. So I I wonder if that tempered 2161 01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:41,560 the concern about whether or not there was an error with a a 2162 01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:45,320 little bit of maybe the air doesn't matter, it's who gets 2163 01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:47,880 the Dragons that matters. Yeah, that's a good point that 2164 01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:48,920 that would be on their minds too. 2165 01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:51,240 They'd be like, well, who who's going to be able to ride these 2166 01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:54,640 Dragons, especially Bulerian, you know, what's the, what's 2167 01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:56,040 going to happen there? And then there were there would 2168 01:47:56,040 --> 01:47:58,920 have been some new Dragons being born around this time and just 2169 01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:01,080 before as well. So even though those Dragons 2170 01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:06,360 might not be immediately an issue, you could look for where 2171 01:48:06,360 --> 01:48:09,240 people could think ahead 10 to 20 years and be like, well, that 2172 01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:14,120 dragon will be an issue later. Almost like a a bastard child or 2173 01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:15,920 something like that might be an issue. 2174 01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:18,400 One day a baby dragon might be an issue 1. 2175 01:48:18,480 --> 01:48:21,240 Day, yeah, Looking into the minutiae of this. 2176 01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:24,320 And we're going to take another look at this later as well. 2177 01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:26,640 There'll be a lot of times that this comes up because it's such 2178 01:48:26,640 --> 01:48:30,040 an important thing, especially with some of the chicanery. 2179 01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:31,880 Some of the trickery that might have gone in the background is 2180 01:48:31,880 --> 01:48:35,520 like, which queen do you like ingratiate yourself with? 2181 01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:39,240 If you're going to do either because who's going to have a 2182 01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:40,920 son first? You're like, well, the one that 2183 01:48:40,920 --> 01:48:43,000 has a son first is probably going to raise and rise and 2184 01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:46,080 prestige. And if one has a son and one has 2185 01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:47,720 a daughter, it's pretty obvious those two are going to get 2186 01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,560 married, though maybe not. But it would have been an 2187 01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:54,040 obvious possibility I guess was. So there might be a little 2188 01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:55,560 competition there. We don't hear about it. 2189 01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:58,320 There's no like, oh, Rainy's been here racing to have a kid 2190 01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:01,480 first. But it it's, it can't have not 2191 01:49:01,480 --> 01:49:03,720 entered their minds. It can not have been something 2192 01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:06,440 that occurred to them, and it certainly occurred to other 2193 01:49:06,440 --> 01:49:10,640 people like and Rainey's was said to surround herself with 2194 01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:14,080 handsome young men, including in her bed chambers, which is like 2195 01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:17,280 well, that's suspicious. There's a few ways to interpret 2196 01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:20,120 Rainey's having handsome young men in her bed chambers. 2197 01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:23,360 The 1st is just that, there's nothing to see here, that she 2198 01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:26,320 wasn't sleeping with them, so nothing happened at all. 2199 01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:29,480 Maybe she did sleep with one or more of them but didn't get 2200 01:49:29,480 --> 01:49:31,240 pregnant, so it's doesn't matter. 2201 01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:36,120 The big possibility though, is that Anies the son she bears 2202 01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:40,600 eventually, and there's also a possibility that Megor wasn't 2203 01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:41,360 Aegon's. I did. 2204 01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:43,560 I wrote a video for Indie Geek on that. 2205 01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:47,000 This possibility, whether Aegon was potentially sterile or 2206 01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:51,680 something like that, and how it's very possible. 2207 01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:57,040 Now if it's true that Rainey's was trying to create a child and 2208 01:49:57,480 --> 01:49:59,560 to create an heir through a different man and be able to 2209 01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:02,720 say, hey this is Aegon's child, you know, to get pregnant and be 2210 01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:05,600 able to claim it's Aegon's heir, it's a huge risk if you're 2211 01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:07,960 sleeping with brown haired people, right? 2212 01:50:08,800 --> 01:50:12,440 It's not like like Ranira was sort of able to get away with 2213 01:50:12,440 --> 01:50:13,520 it. I mean she didn't really get 2214 01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:15,640 away with it, but she sort of was able to get away with it 2215 01:50:15,640 --> 01:50:19,480 because she had brown haired ancestors on her mother's side. 2216 01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:23,720 So it wasn't completely out of the the realm of possibly that 2217 01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:27,960 didn't really exist here. Ranis did not have brown haired 2218 01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:31,080 ancestors that we know of so there would be no way to explain 2219 01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:34,120 it at all. It would be like, I don't know, 2220 01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:36,720 this kid just has brown hair. It just happened. 2221 01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:40,120 It's just random, you know, so it would be very suspicious. 2222 01:50:40,320 --> 01:50:44,760 Much harder to explain. So Rainey's probably isn't dumb 2223 01:50:44,760 --> 01:50:48,960 enough to to take that risk. It's entirely possible she was 2224 01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:52,160 surrounding herself with silver haired, young handsome young men 2225 01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:56,120 though, which would both increase the suspicion and make 2226 01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:59,360 it more possible that she got pregnant with one of them and 2227 01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:02,000 these rumors. This is an hour rumor. 2228 01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:06,040 This is an in world rumor that existed that she might have been 2229 01:51:06,040 --> 01:51:08,680 sleeping, she might have been sleeping around with some of 2230 01:51:08,680 --> 01:51:10,680 these men. These rumors started before the 2231 01:51:10,680 --> 01:51:15,240 conquest, but they would have mattered more after 'cause there 2232 01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:19,360 would be a lot more spotlight on the Queens and and Aegon in 2233 01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:22,720 general. And as I said, the situation of 2234 01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:25,960 the lack of heirs would just keep getting more and more tense 2235 01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:30,080 and more notable. So whoever the queen is spending 2236 01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:33,640 her time with is going to put more eyes on the situation. 2237 01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:38,360 There's more at stake, right? So yeah, so that's a really 2238 01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:41,680 interesting situation that if there's ever ATV show for this 2239 01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:45,240 era, it would be a big deal because they'd have to show this 2240 01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:47,720 tension between the Queens and it. 2241 01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:51,320 It would be a little bit similar in some ways to the Dance of the 2242 01:51:51,320 --> 01:51:54,720 Dragons, but like earlier in that phase, because when the 2243 01:51:54,720 --> 01:51:56,720 dance starts, when the TV show starts, you know, Viserys 2244 01:51:56,720 --> 01:51:59,840 already has children. So yeah, it would build up. 2245 01:52:00,120 --> 01:52:02,680 So many other factors that could be involved there too, because 2246 01:52:02,680 --> 01:52:05,200 it could be that one of the Queens didn't want to have kids, 2247 01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:08,480 didn't want the attention, or wasn't attracted to Aegon. 2248 01:52:08,480 --> 01:52:12,280 Or you could just imagine the infinite different ways that you 2249 01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:15,960 know it might not have been contentious between the Queens 2250 01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:18,480 and and another thought I had too is like if some people were 2251 01:52:18,480 --> 01:52:21,400 like trying to get in good with one queen or the other. 2252 01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,800 Say you chose the wrong queen and the other one has a child 2253 01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:28,480 and they up in prestige. Well, OK, so I'm in good with 2254 01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:31,040 the third most powerful person instead of the second most 2255 01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:32,720 powerful person. You're still not so bad. 2256 01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:34,040 You're still doing all right? Yeah, it's. 2257 01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:35,800 Not like they're going to go to war with each other. 2258 01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:37,520 Their descendants will, but you know, they didn't. 2259 01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:43,160 Hopefully, yeah. So here's a a great thorough 2260 01:52:44,720 --> 01:52:48,760 both theory slash idea from frequent listener, occasional 2261 01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:52,600 commenter Cat Ovivis, who is a real life gynecologist and has 2262 01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:56,880 some ideas, like I said on this this situation here with the 2263 01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:01,480 lack of children and what she calls genetic peculiarities, Now 2264 01:53:01,480 --> 01:53:04,680 we know, and she acknowledges in the second sentence of this, of 2265 01:53:04,680 --> 01:53:07,400 this letter that she sent us that real world genetics. 2266 01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:11,480 You can't just strictly take those as what's happening here. 2267 01:53:11,480 --> 01:53:14,680 They're clearly not happening here because the Targaryen 2268 01:53:14,680 --> 01:53:20,880 family line is been incestuous to a greater degree than pretty 2269 01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,280 much anything in the real world. And there's magic in there. 2270 01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:25,840 We know there's magic in there, so it can't be strictly taken as 2271 01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:29,040 a one to one relationship. Nevertheless, there are 2272 01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:32,120 similarities to real world incest that happens in the 2273 01:53:32,120 --> 01:53:36,640 Targaryen family tree, such as the proneness of stillborn 2274 01:53:36,640 --> 01:53:42,080 children. The frequency of infertility, 2275 01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:45,080 the fact that some of these just don't have kids, and Aegon is a 2276 01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:47,880 potential example here. And she says in real world 2277 01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:50,160 intermarriages between close relatives, that enhances the 2278 01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:53,440 risk of genetic diseases. And if a family carries a gene 2279 01:53:53,440 --> 01:53:57,200 causing severe disease or malformations, each child born 2280 01:53:57,200 --> 01:53:59,560 with that disease, there will be several who carry the gene and 2281 01:53:59,560 --> 01:54:03,640 die in early pregnancy. It happens really often. 2282 01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:05,920 And this was news to me and probably tell them a lot of you 2283 01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:11,840 out there, women have pregnancies that are self 2284 01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:15,280 aborted by the body. Early on they did. 2285 01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:19,120 The pregnancy isn't viable. It ends so early that the woman 2286 01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:21,160 doesn't even know she was pregnant in the first place. 2287 01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:24,520 In many cases, these families seem to be to the outside world 2288 01:54:24,520 --> 01:54:26,320 to be suffering from low fertility. 2289 01:54:26,800 --> 01:54:32,040 And yeah, so if we apply this to the dragon gene, it would mean 2290 01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:35,120 that some of these sister, brother marriages would have a 2291 01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:37,280 higher risk of miscarriage and infertility, which we are 2292 01:54:37,280 --> 01:54:39,840 seeing. We are seeing that and have seen 2293 01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:44,840 in fact the Targaryens before, Aegon, the family tree is bare. 2294 01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:48,080 There's very few children, they were like barely keeping it 2295 01:54:48,080 --> 01:54:51,520 going, and there's like very few women on the in the tree at all, 2296 01:54:51,960 --> 01:54:55,000 and they had several generations of inbreeding that might not 2297 01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:57,440 have happened back in the freehold. 2298 01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,440 The freehold would have been, it would have been inbreeding, but 2299 01:55:00,440 --> 01:55:01,760 it would have been inbreeding from a larger pool. 2300 01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:04,480 It would have been the 40 dragon rider families inbreeding 2301 01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:07,600 incessantly, which is a much larger pool. 40 families is a 2302 01:55:07,600 --> 01:55:10,520 much larger pool than one family, right? 2303 01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:12,000 Like that makes a huge difference. 2304 01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:13,800 Even though it's still going to be incestuous, even though it's 2305 01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:16,240 still going to be some danger there, it will be greatly 2306 01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:18,000 lessened. Now they're all reduced to just 2307 01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:21,280 marrying within themselves, which is just a tiny genetic 2308 01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:22,480 pool. And that's a problem. 2309 01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:24,560 I did some research. I did a panel and I said fire 2310 01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:28,920 con on incest and I've forgotten some of the specific numbers. 2311 01:55:28,920 --> 01:55:32,080 But, but you know, there's some percentage chance for some 2312 01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:36,720 certain defects to be passed. And that when you have, when you 2313 01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:41,720 have a a 1° of separation like a brother and a sister or a father 2314 01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:45,000 and a daughter, something like that, it's exponential that that 2315 01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:48,360 of that happening even still it's like 3%. 2316 01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:50,440 But if you do that two or three times in a row, all of a sudden 2317 01:55:50,440 --> 01:55:54,480 it's like 70%, right? But if you go one branch away 2318 01:55:54,480 --> 01:55:57,400 just to a cousin, it's cut in half, One branch away is cut in 2319 01:55:57,400 --> 01:55:59,720 half again. And so when you have 40 2320 01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:03,200 families, even you're far enough branches, you're cutting in half 2321 01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:07,800 so much and so often that it doesn't get past like the 1% 2322 01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:09,920 point, you know. But if you just do it for three 2323 01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:12,080 or four generations in a row, then it's becomes like a 2324 01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:14,440 guarantee that you're going to pass these on these genetic 2325 01:56:14,440 --> 01:56:16,800 flaws, which sometimes there's something like a cuff lip, but 2326 01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:18,800 sometimes it's like something that keeps a child from being 2327 01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:20,880 born. So yeah, and that does add up 2328 01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:22,280 here. It adds up what Cat Ovivas is 2329 01:56:22,280 --> 01:56:24,160 saying does add up pretty well here because what happens is you 2330 01:56:24,160 --> 01:56:28,520 have take prior to the doom. Let's say you have a bunch of 2331 01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:30,880 they're doing their thing, they have marriages to families the 2332 01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,360 size that it is and they're presumably marrying sometimes 2333 01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:36,360 within the family, sometimes to other dragon rider families. 2334 01:56:36,440 --> 01:56:40,000 They move to Westeros and all of a sudden their birth rate drops 2335 01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:42,680 dramatically until Aegon and his two sisters are born. 2336 01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,800 But their mother was a valarian, was not a Targaryen. 2337 01:56:45,800 --> 01:56:48,360 So it's like all of a sudden they do have a decent sized 2338 01:56:48,360 --> 01:56:50,160 family. Three kids come from that union, 2339 01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:55,200 and then two kids come from 2 marriages to Aegon only. 2340 01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:59,160 And even the both of those babies are a little suspicious, 2341 01:56:59,480 --> 01:57:01,120 right? At least one or both of them 2342 01:57:01,120 --> 01:57:02,600 might not have been fathered by Aegon. 2343 01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:06,240 And then what happens? A niece marries Alyssa Valarian, 2344 01:57:06,240 --> 01:57:08,160 another Valarian, and they have a lot of kids. 2345 01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:13,560 So it's like as soon as another person that's not a Targaryen is 2346 01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:16,080 brought into it, it's a bunch of kids are born. 2347 01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:19,080 So it's like yeah like this isn't proof but it's strong 2348 01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:23,280 evidence and it's and for our possibility of our purposes it 2349 01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:25,720 it fits extremely well. And so I I like this idea I've 2350 01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:28,160 been I've kind of been in on this theory a little bit before 2351 01:57:28,160 --> 01:57:31,560 but it it seems to carry more weight when we've got someone 2352 01:57:31,560 --> 01:57:35,000 that's an expert bringing in the theory and acknowledging the 2353 01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:38,520 magical elements as well. So a great theory cat Ovivis. 2354 01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:41,680 I like it. It it builds on the existing 2355 01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:45,880 body of theories that are here on this topic and it works 2356 01:57:45,880 --> 01:57:47,160 really well. I think it does work really 2357 01:57:47,160 --> 01:57:48,560 well. Also, there's the possibility 2358 01:57:48,560 --> 01:57:52,240 that there was magic, blood magic being used in Valyria to 2359 01:57:52,240 --> 01:57:55,000 offset some of these issues Like, OK, yes, we can't fix the 2360 01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,920 genes perfectly, but we can, you know, immunize you against the 2361 01:57:58,920 --> 01:58:01,440 worst effects of it, like magical immunization against the 2362 01:58:01,440 --> 01:58:03,640 effects of incest. Whatever these blood magicians 2363 01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:05,160 were able to do, it's whatever they're doing. 2364 01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:07,600 They had, you know, 58000 years to figure it out. 2365 01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:12,200 So they kept that society going for a long time despite the the 2366 01:58:12,200 --> 01:58:13,760 inbreeding. So they they, they had other 2367 01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:17,320 answers to these problems. I think that maybe they they 2368 01:58:17,440 --> 01:58:22,360 they lost some of that, some of the ways to mitigate those 2369 01:58:22,360 --> 01:58:23,560 problems. Or maybe they didn't fully 2370 01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:25,240 understand them. Maybe they maybe the problems 2371 01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:28,760 were coming back in ways that they figured these things out 2372 01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:30,760 thousands of years ago in Valyria and then they lost that 2373 01:58:30,760 --> 01:58:32,680 knowledge, 'cause it wasn't important. 2374 01:58:32,680 --> 01:58:35,680 They were the 40 families were providing enough genetic 2375 01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:39,480 material to not have to for not to be a problem. 2376 01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:41,160 And then they're like, whoa, this problem has come and they 2377 01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:44,320 didn't know what to do about it, 'cause the last time it had been 2378 01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:46,200 dealt with was thousands of years ago, and the books that 2379 01:58:46,200 --> 01:58:49,360 were all written on it were long destroyed in The Doom. 2380 01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:51,160 Something like that. Good idea. 2381 01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:54,440 All right, Our last little section for today is our build 2382 01:58:54,440 --> 01:58:58,400 up to Dorne. Yes? 2383 01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,920 Though Maria had rejected Rainey's out of hand. 2384 01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:06,280 As I mentioned earlier in the episode, there were attempts to 2385 01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:09,720 bring Dorne into the realm via peaceful negotiation. 2386 01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:13,000 Quote. With this mission of the Three 2387 01:59:13,000 --> 01:59:15,760 Sisters and the Iron Islands, all of Westeros South of the 2388 01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:18,720 Wall, was now ruled by Aegon Targaryen, save Dorn alone. 2389 01:59:18,720 --> 01:59:21,280 So it was to Dorn that the Dragon next turned his 2390 01:59:21,280 --> 01:59:23,160 attention. Aegon first attempted to win the 2391 01:59:23,160 --> 01:59:25,920 Dornishman with words, dispatching a delegation of high 2392 01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:29,080 Lords, maesters and septons to Sunspear to treat with Princess 2393 01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:32,800 Maria Martel, the so-called Yellow Toad of Dorn, and 2394 01:59:32,800 --> 01:59:36,320 persuade her of the advantages of joining her realm to his. 2395 01:59:36,920 --> 01:59:40,440 Then negotiations continued for the best part of a year had 2396 01:59:40,440 --> 01:59:42,440 achieved nothing. So real quick, the timeline 2397 01:59:42,440 --> 01:59:44,680 here, it's not exactly clear when this began, but it says as 2398 01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:48,160 soon as he, you know, turned as he turned his attention to Dorne 2399 01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:51,200 after the Three Sisters in the Island Islands were taken care 2400 01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:52,960 of, which was around the second year. 2401 01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:56,200 So he probably started back with these negotiations near the end 2402 01:59:56,200 --> 01:59:59,560 of AC2. So this where it says the 2403 01:59:59,560 --> 02:00:01,600 negotiation continued for the best part of the year. 2404 02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:03,400 That would probably be most of AC-3. 2405 02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:06,920 And the eventual opening of hostilities happened in AC4. 2406 02:00:07,160 --> 02:00:09,360 So it all it all adds up pretty well. 2407 02:00:09,400 --> 02:00:13,600 Maria was in her 80s, overweight, blind. 2408 02:00:13,600 --> 02:00:15,200 She didn't paint a picture of health. 2409 02:00:16,120 --> 02:00:18,120 He would never admit to it, Aegon I mean. 2410 02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:21,520 But perhaps he was hoping Maria would just die, and then he 2411 02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:24,440 would be negotiating with her heir, who might be a lot less 2412 02:00:24,440 --> 02:00:27,760 stubborn, who might at least at least have a different attitude. 2413 02:00:27,760 --> 02:00:29,400 Because this clearly wasn't getting anywhere. 2414 02:00:30,200 --> 02:00:34,640 And again, just like it was with Tauren and the Lord of the Vale 2415 02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:38,560 and the arranging of a marriage between their children. 2416 02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:42,280 Or the Lord of the Vale and his child, rather, to be specific. 2417 02:00:42,720 --> 02:00:44,560 What were they offering here? What were they? 2418 02:00:44,560 --> 02:00:46,720 What are the advantages of joining their realm? 2419 02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:49,000 Again, it feels like there's a lot of negative reinforcement 2420 02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:50,880 here. It's like not submitting to us 2421 02:00:50,960 --> 02:00:53,600 means war. You know, You may be stubborn, 2422 02:00:54,440 --> 02:00:56,920 but we've got Dragons, you know. What is the what's the 2423 02:00:56,920 --> 02:00:59,280 negotiation here? How diplomatic was Aegon? 2424 02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:02,160 How was he? That that being like we're 2425 02:01:02,160 --> 02:01:03,680 coming for you probably didn't work. 2426 02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:05,920 So he might have tried a different tactic. 2427 02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:09,360 Like tying your realm to ours means greater trade, greater 2428 02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:12,200 like you, your people on. Here's one that comes to mind. 2429 02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:16,360 If you join our realm, your long standing grievances and wars 2430 02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:18,960 with the Reach and Stormlands will will stop. 2431 02:01:19,200 --> 02:01:21,120 Like that'll end you'll over time. 2432 02:01:21,120 --> 02:01:23,720 It won't happen right away but over time this this long running 2433 02:01:24,080 --> 02:01:29,000 feud will turn into a a maybe even a good place where goods 2434 02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:31,240 and ideas are exchanged. I mean we still aren't to that 2435 02:01:31,240 --> 02:01:33,080 in this day. But it's things are way better 2436 02:01:33,080 --> 02:01:36,240 between Dorne and the reach and the storm winds and they they 2437 02:01:36,240 --> 02:01:38,680 were in this era. So clearly over time it did get 2438 02:01:38,680 --> 02:01:41,320 a lot better. Maybe that's part of his pitch 2439 02:01:41,360 --> 02:01:44,800 like look to have this is this is good for the long term. 2440 02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:46,720 It's not about my ego. It's not about yours. 2441 02:01:47,400 --> 02:01:50,080 This is good for Dorne. You know, For these reasons, she 2442 02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:52,240 doesn't agree. That's her right and she might 2443 02:01:52,240 --> 02:01:54,760 be right, but. On that one, she might not have 2444 02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:58,280 agreed because what he's seeing as a positive would, I think I 2445 02:01:58,280 --> 02:01:59,920 and most rational people see as positive. 2446 02:02:00,200 --> 02:02:02,720 She or some of her people might not have. 2447 02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:05,480 She doesn't want peace with him. She wants the exact vengeance on 2448 02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:08,040 them for the cousin they killed last year or whatever, you know, 2449 02:02:08,040 --> 02:02:09,400 like that's been an ongoing feud. 2450 02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:12,040 She might not want that to end. Yeah, she might not want to be. 2451 02:02:12,040 --> 02:02:14,400 She might not will be willing to accept the realm if like the 2452 02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:16,040 Reach wasn't in it, or something like that. 2453 02:02:16,040 --> 02:02:19,400 Or now the Stormlands were taken over by an entirely new person. 2454 02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:22,920 So that's they don't necessarily have the same level of grudge 2455 02:02:22,920 --> 02:02:25,600 there, although they would have many individual grudges against 2456 02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:28,080 lesser houses, perhaps especially the Marcher houses, 2457 02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:30,720 if not Storm's End because it's now Oris Baratheons. 2458 02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:36,160 But I mean the Dornish aren't, they're just not the type to 2459 02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:37,800 give in easily. That's the something we've 2460 02:02:37,800 --> 02:02:41,960 learned over many centuries, many examples of that. 2461 02:02:43,400 --> 02:02:46,400 And so there are examples that aren't just negative 2462 02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:48,160 reinforcement. There's there's potential. 2463 02:02:48,160 --> 02:02:50,720 But, and I imagine since the negotiations took place over the 2464 02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:53,000 course of a year, Aegon may have tried all these different 2465 02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:54,320 tactics. He's like, OK, let's try the 2466 02:02:54,320 --> 02:02:55,520 stick. Let's try the carrot. 2467 02:02:55,760 --> 02:02:59,320 Let's try the carrot stick. You know, a stick you can eat, 2468 02:02:59,320 --> 02:03:01,040 right? That's the somewhere in between. 2469 02:03:01,800 --> 02:03:04,040 Let's try. Yeah, offering this and that. 2470 02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:06,520 There wouldn't have been. I wonder if there were marriage 2471 02:03:06,520 --> 02:03:08,520 offers. But, you know, if he had a kid 2472 02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:10,840 to marry to them, that would have maybe made it easier, 2473 02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:13,200 'cause that is what it took in the long term, right? 2474 02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:16,240 It took a marriage to get darn into the realm, or a double 2475 02:03:16,240 --> 02:03:20,080 marriage. And yeah, Aegon's potential 2476 02:03:20,080 --> 02:03:24,800 sterility or partial sterility may have sort of tanked this 2477 02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:29,360 possibility and LED to, yeah, well, led to war. 2478 02:03:30,080 --> 02:03:32,240 But Aegon just might not have been willing to do that. 2479 02:03:32,240 --> 02:03:34,920 It's it's an assumption that Aegon, even if he had children, 2480 02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:37,080 would have been willing to marry them to the Martel's. 2481 02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:39,440 He might not have been willing to do that. 2482 02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:42,400 I think he probably would have though to to avoid having to 2483 02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:45,920 just just annihilate Dorne. If he could see the future, he 2484 02:03:45,920 --> 02:03:47,880 would have, right? If he knew how things were going 2485 02:03:47,880 --> 02:03:50,960 to pan out, he definitely. Oh yes, unquestionably yes, 2486 02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:53,240 because. I wonder though if the yellow 2487 02:03:53,240 --> 02:03:56,240 toad would have, if she knew how it was going to play out, if she 2488 02:03:56,240 --> 02:03:58,320 might have still been so stubborn to not do. 2489 02:03:58,320 --> 02:04:01,720 It, I wonder. Well, she is going to see the 2490 02:04:01,720 --> 02:04:04,560 entire war despite her. I mean, despite being in the 2491 02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:05,680 80s, her 80s. Why not C? 2492 02:04:05,680 --> 02:04:06,960 Because she's blind. She's going to live through it 2493 02:04:06,960 --> 02:04:08,200 all. She saw how it played out. 2494 02:04:08,200 --> 02:04:10,920 She'd see it. Dorne got the best of them. 2495 02:04:11,040 --> 02:04:12,280 Well. Like, don't. 2496 02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:14,240 They like they a lot of people were killed. 2497 02:04:14,240 --> 02:04:15,880 I mean, cities were destroyed, right? 2498 02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:20,200 They're of all the different realms, Dorne is the one that 2499 02:04:20,200 --> 02:04:22,720 they're still Princess. They're in. 2500 02:04:23,320 --> 02:04:25,000 The long run, I guess you're. Probably run. 2501 02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:28,600 I think it worked out for them. Yeah yeah the short term was 2502 02:04:28,640 --> 02:04:32,000 awful because they as it's as it's going to say I don't have 2503 02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:34,440 the quote in front of me but something like nearly every 2504 02:04:34,440 --> 02:04:39,400 castle in Dorne was was just was burned and it's just that's 2505 02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:42,440 awful but and and like they starved for a long they had they 2506 02:04:42,440 --> 02:04:45,240 had starvation and and food issues for a while after that 2507 02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:47,800 but but you but they kept. Their some of the things they 2508 02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:51,120 got in the long run they might have gotten anyway if they had 2509 02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:53,800 submitted. Like some of those people that 2510 02:04:53,800 --> 02:04:56,000 were killed might have been leaders and warriors and 2511 02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:58,960 diplomats and traitors that would have convinced Aegon to 2512 02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:02,320 give them more autonomy or to change their way of life. 2513 02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:04,880 Or it's hard to know what all those killed people might have 2514 02:05:04,880 --> 02:05:06,520 done if they weren't killed you. Know you're right. 2515 02:05:06,520 --> 02:05:08,360 Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a giant. 2516 02:05:08,360 --> 02:05:09,240 What if you can't? Really? 2517 02:05:09,240 --> 02:05:13,960 What if with certainty, when there's so many lives involved 2518 02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:17,200 and so many scenarios would have been dramatically different? 2519 02:05:17,480 --> 02:05:19,520 But yeah, I can. I definitely see a Saya's point. 2520 02:05:19,560 --> 02:05:23,760 Yeah, if the yellow toad or or a leader's goal was to preserve 2521 02:05:23,800 --> 02:05:27,820 their people's culture, then, you know, maybe she, quote UN 2522 02:05:27,820 --> 02:05:30,000 quote, won. But I think that's not as an 2523 02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:33,920 important goal, is not letting your innocent people be killed. 2524 02:05:33,920 --> 02:05:36,080 Yeah, yeah. It's a tough, it's a tough 2525 02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:37,440 decision. A decade, you know. 2526 02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:39,640 Because you can't predict how much of that will happen. 2527 02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:42,360 You can't predict, like they didn't know that it would work 2528 02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:43,720 out in the long run. You know it did. 2529 02:05:43,760 --> 02:05:46,080 It did in terms of their independence, as Ashaya says, 2530 02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:48,760 but they didn't. They don't know that it that 2531 02:05:48,760 --> 02:05:50,520 it's going to happen. But yeah, I mean, their words 2532 02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:52,200 are unbound, unbound and broken. That's what she said to 2533 02:05:52,200 --> 02:05:53,720 Rainey's. That's their cultural attitude. 2534 02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:55,400 They're going to back. They're going to stand by that 2535 02:05:56,120 --> 02:05:58,280 and well and so the so are the Targaryens going to stand by 2536 02:05:58,280 --> 02:06:00,920 their fire and blood. And that's why this war is going 2537 02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:05,960 to be really brutal, really nasty and and Despite that, 2538 02:06:05,960 --> 02:06:09,120 very, very interesting because it's not just a war of battles 2539 02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:13,760 and armies. It's a war of subterfuge, of 2540 02:06:13,760 --> 02:06:19,640 assassinations, of intrigue and and lots of things that we see 2541 02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:24,040 less of in other wars. And it's such a long war. 2542 02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:25,480 We don't see much of that either. 2543 02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:28,120 We don't see a lot of really, really long wars in Westeros, 2544 02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:31,120 partly because of the the weather situation. 2545 02:06:31,120 --> 02:06:35,320 You know, the fact that it's you might have winter for several 2546 02:06:35,320 --> 02:06:37,840 years, which is like, well, are we really going to have war 2547 02:06:37,840 --> 02:06:40,320 during three years of winter? I mean you might because it's 2548 02:06:40,320 --> 02:06:43,760 Dorne and then and where the weather is better, where the 2549 02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:48,320 winter doesn't hit as hard, but they don't exactly have robust 2550 02:06:48,480 --> 02:06:52,000 food growth down there either as compared to some other regions. 2551 02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:57,440 So it's not all just roses to use a reference that's more 2552 02:06:57,440 --> 02:07:00,440 appropriate for the Tyrells, but still you get my meaning. 2553 02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:04,200 So that's where we're headed with our next episode. 2554 02:07:04,200 --> 02:07:06,400 It will, it'll probably take us more than one episode to get 2555 02:07:06,400 --> 02:07:10,040 through the war since it's so long and because non war things 2556 02:07:10,040 --> 02:07:12,280 are happening during it. It's not all war. 2557 02:07:12,840 --> 02:07:16,040 That's just a the. The spotlight is on that. 2558 02:07:16,040 --> 02:07:17,680 So that'll be next week. All right. 2559 02:07:17,680 --> 02:07:22,360 We've got some patrons to give a shout out to Sean. 2560 02:07:22,360 --> 02:07:25,800 Take it away and. As always, I'll do a a few new 2561 02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:30,240 and a few old Galbi of Sirwin the Pale Blade. 2562 02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:31,920 Like that one. This is a long one. 2563 02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:35,240 Get ready for this Brandon Brewer of Castle Black, Rune 2564 02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:40,360 Sworn Ailesmith to Hal Stark, Grandmaster of Zythomancers 2565 02:07:40,360 --> 02:07:44,040 Guild and Keeper of the Buzz. Yeah, I see. 2566 02:07:44,040 --> 02:07:46,320 I used to know what Zithomancer meant, but I imagine it's 2567 02:07:46,320 --> 02:07:47,760 something to do with brewing. I don't know. 2568 02:07:48,880 --> 02:07:49,680 That makes sense. Yeah. 2569 02:07:49,680 --> 02:07:50,680 I. Looked it up, but I've forgotten 2570 02:07:50,680 --> 02:07:52,360 what it meant. Captain Lewis, the merchant 2571 02:07:52,360 --> 02:07:55,000 Prince. When men see his sales, they 2572 02:07:55,040 --> 02:07:55,880 pay. That's sales. 2573 02:07:55,880 --> 02:07:59,240 SALES like a salesman. So yes, good pun there. 2574 02:07:59,240 --> 02:08:01,000 I love that one. I remember laughing out loud 2575 02:08:01,000 --> 02:08:05,560 when he sent that one to us. Yes, Zitho is the Greek word for 2576 02:08:05,560 --> 02:08:07,360 beer. Oh, Zitho. 2577 02:08:07,400 --> 02:08:10,520 OK, we knock back a tall glass of Zitho. 2578 02:08:10,520 --> 02:08:14,560 All right, we've got Lady Peg of House of Bundy. 2579 02:08:15,120 --> 02:08:17,120 Married with children referenced there. 2580 02:08:18,680 --> 02:08:22,000 Chara of House Krypton. I hope that's a Superman 2581 02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:25,480 reference. And Lord Kissel of Kissington. 2582 02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:28,920 I like a name with a lot of ZS. Me, my own name being 50% Z 2583 02:08:28,920 --> 02:08:31,280 myself your. Self. 2584 02:08:32,040 --> 02:08:34,360 My myself, yes. But you can find all these 2585 02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:36,280 patron names at historyofwesteros.com, along 2586 02:08:36,280 --> 02:08:37,560 with everything else we mentioned throughout this 2587 02:08:37,560 --> 02:08:42,920 episode that relates to things you can buy or sign up for or 2588 02:08:42,920 --> 02:08:45,880 join or participate in. You can pretty much all that's a 2589 02:08:45,880 --> 02:08:49,560 history of westeros.com. It's our sort of hub for all 2590 02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:52,800 that. The answer to our trivia 2591 02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:57,320 question, The Who came up with the Grand Master office and 2592 02:08:57,320 --> 02:09:00,360 when, Aegon himself in the Year 5 AC. 2593 02:09:00,360 --> 02:09:04,840 So about one year after the events of this episode, as I 2594 02:09:04,840 --> 02:09:06,840 said next week, first blood and fire. 2595 02:09:06,840 --> 02:09:11,960 As in first blood and Fire. What it's. 2596 02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:16,760 Worth first blood is a very different connotation to me as a 2597 02:09:16,760 --> 02:09:22,280 woman. Was that true for lots of women 2598 02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:24,680 when that movie came out? I wonder when the Rambo movie 2599 02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:26,560 drowned like First blood, lot of women were like, that's not what 2600 02:09:26,560 --> 02:09:28,880 that means to me. Yeah, yeah, I I didn't even get 2601 02:09:28,880 --> 02:09:30,240 into just now that that's what you meant. 2602 02:09:30,240 --> 02:09:32,160 I thought I was like, I don't think there's anything to do 2603 02:09:32,160 --> 02:09:35,400 with menstruation in this episode, but I'll see what Aziz 2604 02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:43,120 has to say. Yes, so some episodes mentioned 2605 02:09:43,120 --> 02:09:45,760 in this one that might be of interest to you because they 2606 02:09:45,760 --> 02:09:50,400 relate to this one before The Dragons, Under the Dragons, The 2607 02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:53,640 episode on Valerian and our Blackwood episodes, which deal 2608 02:09:53,640 --> 02:09:56,120 with some of these conflicts with the Brackens from a much 2609 02:09:56,120 --> 02:09:59,560 more detailed view and of course expands on different conflicts 2610 02:09:59,560 --> 02:10:00,920 that weren't mentioned in this episode. 2611 02:10:01,160 --> 02:10:04,200 Don't forget we've got the last storm episode for patrons and 2612 02:10:04,200 --> 02:10:07,040 members only. That's the war between or the 2613 02:10:07,080 --> 02:10:11,600 part of the war that encompasses Raines and Oris fighting against 2614 02:10:11,840 --> 02:10:17,600 the Stormlands and the Great Argolac, the Arrogant and the 2615 02:10:17,600 --> 02:10:20,680 Red Kraken Ditto. There's that's not a Patrons and 2616 02:10:20,680 --> 02:10:23,240 Members episode as well. That's more about the loss of 2617 02:10:23,240 --> 02:10:27,280 the old way, the changes to the Iron Isles in this era, and how 2618 02:10:27,280 --> 02:10:31,120 they broke free again during the Dance of the Dragons under the 2619 02:10:31,120 --> 02:10:37,560 Red Kraken, AKA Dalton Greyjoy. Thanks to everyone who came to 2620 02:10:37,560 --> 02:10:40,320 watch live or if you listened later. 2621 02:10:40,320 --> 02:10:42,520 We appreciate either way. Thanks to those of you who 2622 02:10:42,520 --> 02:10:45,760 support us either as a through a membership on Patreon, A 2623 02:10:47,200 --> 02:10:51,920 recurring or one time donation through our website, or by 2624 02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:54,760 signing up on Spotify. You can be a member and just add 2625 02:10:54,760 --> 02:10:56,520 it on to your Spotify subscription. 2626 02:10:56,520 --> 02:10:59,360 Just join us through there. It's right there in the link of 2627 02:10:59,800 --> 02:11:01,760 the right there in the description of every episode. 2628 02:11:01,760 --> 02:11:03,680 If you're listening on Spotify, there's a link to sign up. 2629 02:11:04,120 --> 02:11:05,880 Thanks to Nina for her great notes. 2630 02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:07,920 Always very helpful. Check out good 2631 02:11:07,920 --> 02:11:12,240 queenalley.tumblr.com. Thanks to those of you. 2632 02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:16,520 Thanks to those of us. Those of us thanks to our back 2633 02:11:16,640 --> 02:11:20,560 end music and video helpers Joey, Jesse Brand and Michael 2634 02:11:20,560 --> 02:11:22,160 Klarfeld. You guys are amazing. 2635 02:11:22,160 --> 02:11:24,640 Our show looks a lot more professional because of y'all 2636 02:11:24,720 --> 02:11:29,840 and that's it for this week. We will see you next week for 2637 02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:33,760 more fire and blood, more Valar reredis. 2638 02:11:34,280 --> 02:11:37,320 So do that Valar reredis.