1 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:51,980 To touch the light, you must pass beneath the shadow. 2 00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:56,540 But what is the shadow? We know it's the darkness 3 00:00:56,540 --> 00:01:00,780 infested region as far away as one can get from Westeros in the 4 00:01:00,780 --> 00:01:04,900 known world, roughly speaking, but that doesn't tell us what it 5 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:07,260 is or how it relates to the story. 6 00:01:07,940 --> 00:01:11,020 On top of that, there are good reasons to believe that the 7 00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:16,000 shadow lands by a shy are not our best answer for where 8 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,560 Daenerys has to literally go right? 9 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,320 But that may be part of the answer. 10 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,320 That's why we have to dedicate an episode to it, because it's, 11 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,200 it's a little tricky. This belief, rather, this notion 12 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,920 in part, stems from knowing that George made some changes along 13 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,080 the way. He had a plan. 14 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,360 He changed it a bit as he went. The story grew in the telling, 15 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,720 as we all know. We're focusing in on that for 16 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,440 Daenerys and some related stories. 17 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,200 Now, in part, he may have wanted to maintain a layer of mystery 18 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,720 about a Shy and the Shadow Lands, but even as he steered 19 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,560 Danny away from going there directly, he continued to make a 20 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,080 Shy and the Shadow Lands important not just to her story, 21 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,600 as I said, but to other storylines and for storylines 22 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,640 yet to come. As we'll discuss, the Shadow 23 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,800 could be a metaphor or symbol for many things. 24 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,479 For example, doesn't have to be a literal place, but as I said, 25 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:12,960 it could be both. We'll take a look at all that 26 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,840 and which story elements related to Ash Eye and the Shadow Lands 27 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,280 appear in all the books. Not just a Song of Ice and Fire, 28 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,440 but the world of ice and fire and fire and blood too. 29 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:24,720 There's a lot to to go on with that. 30 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,880 There's some new things. This episode is dedicated to 31 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,320 these related topics and theories, the potential of what 32 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,680 we have, plus a long look at the region that bears the name 33 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,960 because, well, we want to cover all our bases. 34 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,120 And in Shadow Lands sounds really fun. 35 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,560 We've covered Ash Eye before, but not the Shadow Lands 36 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,880 specifically. So we'll consider Daenerys arc 37 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,320 as it relates to Ash Eye and the Shadow Lands and Quaithe, who is 38 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,400 from the Shadow Lands. She's involved heavily this 39 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,240 episode and she's the one who gave Danny this prophecy after 40 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,640 all. And of course, we only quoted 41 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:56,920 part of it. She continues to appear in 42 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:58,800 Danny's dreams, so that's going to be important. 43 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,680 And of course, the shadow lands themselves. 44 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Those who live there are touched by the shadow. 45 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,520 What does that mean? They're masked and mysterious. 46 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,680 We've got magic, we've got Miriam Mazdoor, we've got 47 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,600 Melisandre, we've got Marwin. All that and more on this 48 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,680 episode of History of Westeros Podcast. 49 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,280 Hello and welcome back everybody. 50 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,720 We usually do our live streams on Monday. 51 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,040 This is a special Wednesday live stream. 52 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,800 The usual time we do Wednesday live streams is during ATV 53 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,080 season. This is not ATV season as you 54 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,320 probably know, but we are live streaming on a special day. 55 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,280 It's around the holidays and normally though, like I said, 56 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,800 3:00 Sundays or just catch the episodes later on any podcast 57 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,880 platform or just watch the live stream replay on YouTube. 58 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,800 It is ad free if you listen on Patreon. 59 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,440 However, as a member, shout out to our good friend Nina 60 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,720 Krusling. That's right, no longer Nina 61 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:58,880 Freel. She is now married. 62 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,000 Congratulations to Nina and James, but she's still a good 63 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,520 queenalley.tumblr.com That hasn't changed. 64 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,920 A good queen alley with 1l.tumblr.com and the latest 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:15,040 blog post over there is on Damon and Lena's child, Lena's death 66 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,360 and childbirth. Specifically. 67 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,920 The child was malformed, so the question is whether this relates 68 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,120 to the problems that some Targaryens have with children 69 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,720 and whether that child was such an example. 70 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,280 If you have questions for us, ask them live during the stream 71 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:32,680 if you're here for that. Otherwise, hit us up on any of 72 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,120 our socials or at westeroshistory@gmail.com. 73 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,520 I will, of course, mention some episodes, the end that relate to 74 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,840 this one. We do have quite a few ties to 75 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,960 other episodes in this one, and we'll start with our trivia 76 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,080 question, which will also have its answer at the end of the 77 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,640 episode. Which notable character on their 78 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,640 way to meet Daenerys is seemingly not mentioned in 79 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,560 Quaithe's prophecy? You know, the one Kraken dark 80 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,000 flame and all that one that business. 81 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:06,120 Lady Sophia Valarian sense of super chat says happy holidays 82 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:07,880 from the Commonwealth of Virginia. 83 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,240 Right on. I didn't know there were 84 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,320 Valarians in Virginia, but you know, the VS flock together. 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,560 Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, thank you, Lady Sophia, 86 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,880 and happy holidays to all of you from us. 87 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,560 Let's see, first of all, as I often do, I want to give a quick 88 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,560 rundown of what you're going to have in this episode. 89 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:28,120 We're going to talk about Danny and Quaithe quite a lot, 90 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,720 George's plans for her, the meta of all that. 91 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,280 It's not entirely within the text, what we know about this. 92 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,280 Then of course, the world building deep dive on the Shadow 93 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:39,480 Lands and the people who live there. 94 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,040 That's mostly in the second-half and as we have done an episode 95 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,280 on Ash Eye before, many of you are aware it was eight years 96 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:48,600 ago. Not a whole lot has changed 97 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,440 since then, but we didn't cover everything. 98 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:52,720 There's things we didn't talk about. 99 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,680 For example, we focused on Ash Eye and now we're focusing more 100 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,520 on the Shadow lands and Daenerys interpretation of the shadow as 101 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,440 it pertains to her storyline. And of course, there have been 102 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,040 some actual changes, though I said there hadn't been a lot, 103 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,600 but there have been some. And some of them, I guess are 104 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,480 fairly significant, which is that, well, Fire and Blood came 105 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,400 out. That's pretty big. 106 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,240 And since Fire and blood is included in the mix, we now have 107 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,720 one, maybe 2 characters that have been to Ash Eye that we 108 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,360 didn't know of before. So we'll talk about that. 109 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,920 We also have a little bit of influences to discuss real life 110 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,560 masking culture will be a brief section in the second-half of 111 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,480 the episode. Little bit of Robert E Howard 112 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,320 comes up in this one because there's some influence there. 113 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,400 And let me read you all the different headers that I've 114 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,400 wrote for this episode. And that starts with the 115 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,360 original plans and the five year gap. 116 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,720 Then the Game of Thrones ash eye recap Quait's prophecy, the a 117 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,920 clash of kings ash eye recap Quait in dreams. 118 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,680 Then the rest of the recaps, which are shorter, A storm of 119 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,840 swords, a feast for crows, a dance with Dragons and the world 120 00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:59,000 of ice and fire slash fire blood ash eye recaps. 121 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,360 There isn't really one for Duncan egg because it's really 122 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,560 only mentioned one time as a just as a throwaway comment. 123 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,720 So there's not much to say there. 124 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,280 Then we'll talk about the shadow lands. 125 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,920 What is the shadow? The Shadow Men, then the IRL 126 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,520 masking tradition section, then we'll talk about some other 127 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,400 song, Bison fire threads, a few other characters that are 128 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,120 relevant, and the Sea Snake and Alyssa Farman. 129 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,400 Let's get to it. The original plans in the five 130 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,320 year gap is where we're starting now. 131 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,280 Of course, the five year gap, to recap, was George's original 132 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,240 plan prior to A Feast for Crows. He planned on five years passing 133 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,560 between A Storm of Swords in the next book, which at the time 134 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:35,840 wasn't even called A Feast for Crows. 135 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,600 But of course he changed his mind. 136 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,960 Now all the main characters were impacted by the scrapping of the 137 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,560 five year gap, especially the younger PO VS because they 138 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,800 weren't given the chance to grow up. 139 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,280 That was intended as part of the five year gap. 140 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,320 It's not a big deal for Tyrion or you know, Catlin who was 141 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,560 already dead, or later POV characters like Theon or Jamie 142 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:57,600 or Davos. It matter. 143 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,600 Well, Theon would argue that five extra years in the Dread 144 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,800 Fort is actually quite a big deal, thank you very much. 145 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,800 But you get my point. Of course, the younger 146 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,200 characters, the younger you get with the characters, the more a 147 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,400 big deal it is. Bran was going to be 12, which 148 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,760 is kind of funny because he's still even after five years, he 149 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,000 would have still been very young. 150 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:21,040 But characters like Danny and Sansa and John and and Sam, for 151 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,160 example, and to a lesser extent Aria, go from teenager to about 152 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,040 20 or maybe 18. So that's a big deal. 153 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,360 Like Danny is 16 now as of Dance with Dragons, roughly. 154 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,000 So she would have been about 21. That's a less of a big deal than 155 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,840 it would be for some of those older characters, but it's still 156 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,000 pretty substantial. And I think it's a bigger deal 157 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,679 for her than it is for John because John ends the the series 158 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,160 or ends the Storm of Swords rather as the Lord Commander. 159 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,680 And you could pretty easily just say, OK, five years of John 160 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:51,680 being Lord Commander, you know, not, not a whole lot happened. 161 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,880 Maybe that's a little bit of a stretch, but not as much as it 162 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,840 would have been for some other characters anyway. 163 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,720 For Danny, it would have meant being longer established in 164 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,800 Slavers Bay. So that's not going to happen 165 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,280 nearly as much because there's not going to be that five years. 166 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:06,880 And to be honest, the Slaver's Bay probably isn't as 167 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,360 narratively important as the Wall. 168 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,480 But the big kicker here, yes, Danny isn't as young as a as a 169 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,480 Bran or an Arya, but her Dragons are even younger than Bran. 170 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,480 Even so, that five years of them not growing is a big deal. 171 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,720 And it does relate somewhat to this topic because Asha is such 172 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,400 a place steeped in dragon lore. The Shadow Lands perhaps are the 173 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,640 place where Dragons originated, and thus there's a lot of 174 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,360 knowledge associated with Dragons and dragon lore out 175 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,720 there in the Far East and well, younger versus older Dragons, 176 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,560 well, you can see how that relates at least somewhat and in 177 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:42,840 other ways that we'll get to. Of course, in the matter of Ash, 178 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,760 it gets tricky. Now, George definitely planned 179 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,240 for her to go there at one point and then changed his mind, but 180 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,840 we don't know if he changed his mind because of the five year 181 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,200 gap or not. However, I'm pretty sure he 182 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,120 didn't, which might surprise a lot of you and it would have 183 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,360 surprised me before looking into this episode. 184 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,600 Now, there were a host of other changes from George's original 185 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,040 conception. There is, of course, the five 186 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,400 year gap change. But if we go back even farther 187 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,720 and look at, say, the original outline, the original plan for 188 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,960 the series, which was of course just a trilogy at first. 189 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,560 Like for example, Joffrey was going to kill Rob in battle. 190 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,880 Catelyn was going to die beyond the wall instead of in the 191 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,360 Riverlands. Jamie was going to become king. 192 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,840 He was going to murder his way to the throne and and Tyrion was 193 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,240 going to be blamed for a lot of it. 194 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:28,560 So that's that's different. But here was the original plan 195 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,760 for Danny quote. When the moment is right, she 196 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,800 will kill her husband to avenge her brother, and then flee with 197 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,720 a trusted friend into the wilderness beyond Vais Dothrak. 198 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,240 There, haunted by Dothraki blood riders illegible of her life, 199 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,080 she stumbles on a cache of Dragon's eggs. 200 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,240 The birth of a young dragon will give Daenerys the power to bend 201 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,160 the Dothraki to her will. Yeah, there's an actual 202 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,280 illegible part in there. That's why she said that, 203 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,240 because we don't actually know what that word is. 204 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,280 Probably something in fear of her life or, you know, they're 205 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,120 they won't have sworn to kill her. 206 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,880 Something like that. We understand how blood riders 207 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,800 work. The trusted friend that she 208 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,640 would be fleeing into the wilderness would be Jorah, 209 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,040 probably. That was probably a character he 210 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,800 hadn't fully conceived of yet. And of course, no longer is she 211 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,600 carrying about avenging her brother. 212 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,600 So the story we got was quite different. 213 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,600 But you can see a lot of those same elements are there. 214 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,800 The young dragon giving Daenerys the power to bend the Dithraki 215 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,640 to her will. That last sentence really says a 216 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:33,880 lot. That seems to still be 217 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,360 happening. That seems to still be close to 218 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,600 happening. In fact, at the end of the Dance 219 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,840 with Dragons, she is confronted by Kaal Djoko and 50 of his 220 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,000 writers or so. And it seems to be foreshadowed 221 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,040 that this will end in Danny becoming the Stallion who Mounts 222 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,440 the World, or being revealed as she already is. 223 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,640 I suppose you could say the stallion who mounts the World 224 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,080 dominating the Dasraki, bringing them as part of her army, a huge 225 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,560 part of her army, and going from there. 226 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,640 So was that going to be part of the five year gap though? 227 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,960 Was Danny going to go to Ash Eye during that? 228 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,840 Which would enable George to keep some of the mystery because 229 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,880 we don't see it directly, we only see it through her 230 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,560 flashbacks, which allows him to be a lot more controlled with 231 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,880 what we get. It's not reasonable for her to 232 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,080 be there and just things be omitted. 233 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,120 But if it's her memory, it's imperfect. 234 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,720 It's not happening right in front of us. 235 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,640 He can still conceal some things. 236 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,360 He can tell the story in a different order. 237 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,880 But anyway, that didn't happen. Obviously, she never went, but 238 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:36,840 it's something he may have considered. 239 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,640 So having it through the eyes of Apov is certainly different than 240 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,280 some other outcomes we could have gotten. 241 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,320 That said, as we talked about in our Melisandre episode, she 242 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,400 might be sort of a mobile ash eye. 243 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,480 She knows a lot about the place. She might be the portal to Danny 244 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,920 to learn some of those things if they ever meet. 245 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,560 Now let's talk about what elements of Ash Eye in terms of 246 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:07,160 story from a high level, we're introduced in A Game of Thrones 247 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,480 because it's a lot. This is probably the most about 248 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,920 Ash Eye that we get in terms of big grand things happened right 249 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,960 here in this first book. It's pretty wild because I think 250 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,560 it's related to how Danny was going to be going there. 251 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:24,920 And so she he wanted to set it up even more. 252 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,120 But like I said, even after he turned from having her go 253 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,160 directly there, he still wanted to add a lot of detail about it 254 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,960 and keep it important. So here we go. 255 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,560 Illyria tells Danny her eggs are from the shadow lands beyond a 256 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,240 shy. Now, we have a lot of reason to 257 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,160 believe this is a lie. But the fact that he is 258 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,800 referring to a place that Dragons really did come from, 259 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,480 he's saying, oh, it's just like, say it's like saying this 260 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,480 sparkling wine is actually champagne when it's not from the 261 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:52,720 champagne region. It's the same thing. 262 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,200 It's still sparkling wine, but he's exaggerating about how 263 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,600 exotic they are. And she because she does hear 264 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,520 Dragons originated there. So it's a it's a lie that is 265 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,520 easy to sell because it could be true. 266 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,840 We hear about ghost grass when Danny is on the Dothraki Sea 267 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,160 basically for the first time. She has a conversation with Sir 268 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,080 Jora about it and they talk about all the different colors 269 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,680 it can be. And then the subject of ghost 270 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,840 grass comes up and it's pretty chilling. 271 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,760 And Danny doesn't really want to talk about it because she's 272 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,720 like, oh, I'm having a good day. The grass looks nice. 273 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,640 Let's not talk about that death grass or whatever, but it's 274 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,360 clearly something that is relevant, right? 275 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,440 And and she's heard about all the magic openly practiced 276 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,200 there. We get a longer version of this 277 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,480 in the world of ice and fire book. 278 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,680 But she thinks during a Game of Thrones about spell singers, 279 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,000 warlocks, aromancers that practice openly and then 280 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,840 shadowbinders and blood mages practice at night like they even 281 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,000 they have to keep some of their magic hidden even in a place 282 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,720 like ash eye. That may not even be true, but 283 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,760 that's what she's heard. And it's a, you know, it's it's 284 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,600 part of the pastiche of knowledge that is out there 285 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,520 about Eshai, part of the what people believe about it. 286 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,400 She sees shadow men and caravans from Eshai at Vaisdothrak and 287 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,920 sees some hideous God statues that Jorah says are probably 288 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,200 from the shadow lands. Something about misshapen God 289 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,000 just instantly, oh, ah, misshapen gods must be the 290 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,240 shadow lands. Like, OK, I guess that is a 291 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,640 thing. But why? 292 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,200 Well, hmm, I don't know. Mary Mazdor learned her 293 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,280 necromancy there her the thing that she did to bring Drogo 294 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,560 back, quote UN quote, to save his quote UN quote life, right? 295 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,640 She definitely did something. There are other shadows and the 296 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,680 dead horse and there was magic for sure. 297 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,160 So she learned it in Aschai and also met Marwin there, where she 298 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,200 learned other things about peeling from, you know, from a 299 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,160 maester. And then after Drogo's death, 300 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,080 Jorah suggests they go to Aschai. 301 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,800 Then again when she built Drogo's pyre, he again suggests 302 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,920 let's just go E. He's not thinking ash eye only 303 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,440 he's throwing a bunch of ideas out there. 304 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,240 Just anything to get her from the path she's on, which even he 305 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,720 doesn't realize at the time is her jumping into the pyre. 306 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,360 But still, he's doesn't like her plan. 307 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,680 Whatever it is, he says Yee tee Karth, the Jade Sea, Ash Eye by 308 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:16,480 the shadow. Let's go. 309 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,200 One of those places. Even Tywin mentions that Stannis 310 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,320 is bringing a shadowbinder from a shy in the first book. 311 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,080 He doesn't mention her by name. We haven't heard the name 312 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,120 Melisandre yet, but already it's there. 313 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,720 And then, of course, Bran's dream dragon stirring under the 314 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,320 sunrise. Here we go, quote. 315 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,920 He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the Narrow Sea to the 316 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,360 Free Cities and the green Dothraki Sea, and beyond to Vase 317 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,440 Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade 318 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,080 Sea, to a shy by the shadow where Dragons stirred beneath 319 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,840 the sunrise. So you can see there's a lot of 320 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,480 set up for a shy in the first book. 321 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,200 Quite a few things there. The Bran bit in particular is 322 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,079 interesting to me because we later learned that Danny's 323 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,319 Dragons are the only ones. Even Quaithe says that. 324 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,720 So what is Bran seeing Dragons stirring beneath the sunrise 325 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,319 for? Is this just a just a kind of 326 00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:17,640 the vagaries of dreams on on That said, everything else in 327 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Bran's dream, we've in this particular dream, maybe not some 328 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,359 of the others, but this one, we can pretty much pinpoint it. 329 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,680 It's all fairly clear which characters are being referred to 330 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,480 get the the giant with black blood. 331 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,960 That's clearly Gregor. He's overshadowing Janie and 332 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,800 Sandor. You've got John turning cold and 333 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,760 things like that. It's all seems kind of 334 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,000 straightforward in terms of what we've seen already, but this 335 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,840 part never really came to pass and doesn't seem like it will. 336 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,240 So this might be metaphorical, It might be just something that 337 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,160 I'm looking too deeply at that isn't as meant to be as deep as 338 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,960 I'm thinking about it. But it could be that George 339 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,800 changed his mind. He intended for there to be some 340 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,880 Dragons in a shy, but changed his mind to make it the only 341 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,200 ones. But that that even that doesn't 342 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,680 seem very likely because by the end of the book, the like the 343 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,080 last line is the sound of Dragons was heard for the first 344 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,400 time. And I, I don't remember the 345 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,400 exact I didn't quote, pulled out a quote exactly, but you know 346 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:16,880 what I mean. It said it's been first time 347 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,480 it's been heard in forever. So that also seems to argue 348 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,560 against Dragons having been currently in a shy, although 349 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,240 maybe more will hatch because of these ones. 350 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,440 Who know? This is definitely a bit of a a 351 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,200 quirk to this whole angle we're looking at here. 352 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,520 Now. Clay's prophecy, however, is not 353 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,000 in a Game of Thrones. So that's really important, very 354 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,960 important going forward. Keep that in mind. 355 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,680 And Danny has already sailed W before sailing E, right? 356 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,680 Think about this. If you Fast forward to A Clash 357 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,480 of Kings, it's the news of Robert Baratheon's death at the 358 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,920 end of A Clash of Kings that gets her to turn West. 359 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,640 So she's not going to is she going to go back to Ashy? 360 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,040 Was that that was that couldn't have been the original plan for 361 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,560 George. That doesn't make sense for her 362 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,720 him to her to go to Karth, then go all the way back and to 363 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,720 Slavers Bay, which is to the West, and then go E again to 364 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,080 Ashy. Karth is as close as she's ever 365 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,520 going to get. I think that's as Far East as 366 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,080 she's ever going to go. But it's interesting that George 367 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,080 had decided at the beginning of A Clash of Kings. 368 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,520 He surely had knew what was going to happen with Danny that 369 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,600 she was already going to decide by the end of the book to go 370 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,800 West. Even though she doesn't get all 371 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,880 the way West, she gets stuck in Slavers Bay. 372 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,600 She's definitely not heading in the direction of Ash Eye and she 373 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,320 tells Quaithe, as we'll see in a minute, she doesn't have the 374 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,520 intention of going there as soon as the Clash of Kings. 375 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,000 Early in Clash of Kings, she's already pretty much decided not 376 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,840 to go. I think that's a surprise to a 377 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,240 lot of y'all. I think a lot of y'all, again, 378 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,480 self included before this episode. 379 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,120 Thought it was going to be the five year gap. 380 00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:59,320 Was around the time those plants got scrapped. 381 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,240 Let's continue with Quath's prophecy quote. 382 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,880 The woman stepped closer and lay 2 fingers on Danny's wrist. 383 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,240 You are the Mother of Dragons, are you not? 384 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,520 She is, and no spawn of shadows may touch her. 385 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,880 Jogo brushed Quath's fingers away with the handle of his 386 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,760 whip. The woman took a step backward. 387 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,800 You must leave the city soon, Daenerys Targaryen, or you will 388 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,000 never be permitted to leave it at all. 389 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,160 Danny's wrist still tingled where Quaithe had touched her. 390 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,760 Where would you have me go? She asked. 391 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:39,000 To go north, you must journey S. To reach the West, you must go 392 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,560 E. To go forward you must go back, 393 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,920 and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow. 394 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,560 A Shai Danny thought she would have me go to a Shai. 395 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,120 Will the a Shai E give me an army? 396 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,760 She demanded. Will there be gold for me in a 397 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,720 shy? Will there be ships? 398 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,960 What is there in a shy that I will not find in Carth? 399 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:08,560 Truth, said the woman in the mask and bowing, she faded back 400 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,840 into the crowd. Recaro snorted contempt through 401 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,280 his drooping black mustachios. Khalisi Better a man should 402 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,640 swallow scorpions than trust in the spawn of shadows who dare 403 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,920 not show their face beneath the sun, it is known. 404 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,400 It is known AGO agreed. So Danny thinks Quaithe means go 405 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,720 to a shy. She says you want me to go to a 406 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,360 shy and Quaithe says you'll find truth there. 407 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,000 So it seems pretty confirmed that that's what Quaithe meant. 408 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,680 There's no like, well, what does she mean by go beneath the 409 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,040 shadow? Well, she straight up says Ash 410 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,600 eye, or at least responds in the affirmative when Danny says you 411 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,320 mean Ash eye. So in this case, it looks kind 412 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,720 of straightforward. However, as I just said, this is 413 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:59,800 the book where Danny goes West, not E She doesn't go towards Ash 414 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,480 eye. So what does that mean? 415 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,360 Quaithe isn't getting Danny to go the direction she wants. 416 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,200 But later Quaithe is going to keep saying these things. 417 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,800 She's going to repeat this prophecy in a dream or glass 418 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:14,760 candle. We'll get to that. 419 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,400 And doesn't seem to be like hey, you're going the wrong way. 420 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,320 She just repeats the prophecy and and says a few other things 421 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,680 with it. So it's a little puzzling. 422 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,040 Not in a something's wrong here way. 423 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,600 Not in a this is suspicious for Quaithe way 'cause I do think at 424 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,200 the end of it, Quaithe appears to be the only one of the three 425 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,600 that meets her and Carte that actually has some goodwill 426 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,120 intended. Maybe not goodwill towards 427 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:42,800 Danny. Maybe that goodwill is towards, 428 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680 you know, saving the world, preventing another long night. 429 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,800 But Quaith doesn't have a personal goal. 430 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,200 Well, since she's not trying to benefit from this, that's not 431 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,160 greed or ambition. That's driving Quaithe's 432 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,200 messages to Danny. Even if the messages aren't 100% 433 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,680 clear, I think we can tell that she gives her warnings, 434 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,680 communicates with her, tries to steer her in the right 435 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,880 direction, but she's also going to continue to tell her what she 436 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,400 is and what to do. I suppose we should consider the 437 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,560 possibility that that George was of two minds in the beginning of 438 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,400 this book and change his mind by the end of it. 439 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,000 That is possible. And that he didn't, you know, 440 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,280 tweak some of this earlier writing to reflect that. 441 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,920 But I don't really look at it that way. 442 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,400 That's a, that's a rabbit hole that's too difficult to 443 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,200 decipher. If, if he just made some 444 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,640 mistake, Well, who knows? I, I, so I don't really want to 445 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,480 look at it that way because, you know, even though it's possible, 446 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,400 it, it, it's kind of leads us to a dead end. 447 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,720 There's not much we can say about that. 448 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,160 And anyway, I don't believe that too, because it all seems to add 449 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,000 up, even if there's a lot of mystery in here. 450 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,280 So the truths are likely related to this other point that Quaith 451 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,240 is pushing. Remember that you are a dragon. 452 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,560 Remember what you are now. That's the thing that's going to 453 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,840 come up in these other ones that isn't here in this one. 454 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,320 And I think it's related to truth. 455 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,920 Like Danny, you are a dragon. You have to be a dragon. 456 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,960 And as we've seen in a number of places throughout the series, 457 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,520 what that means is you have to destroy, you have to unleash 458 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,960 that fire, proverbial fire in a song of Ice and fire, perhaps. 459 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:16,360 Now, of course, the other parts of the the prophecy. 460 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:20,440 Let's talk about that. To go north, you must go South. 461 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,360 OK, Well, I think we understand that to go north, the ultimate 462 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,040 destination of North, the wall slash the others, that's 463 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,560 potentially where her ultimate destiny is. 464 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,000 West is presumably Westeros, right? 465 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,360 You have to go West. You must go E. 466 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,200 Well, she did go E not as far as a shy, but Karth is well, that's 467 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:41,600 farther than anyone else in the among the PO VS is gone during 468 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,000 the time of the series. Technically Melisandre was 469 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,800 there, you know, before the series. 470 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,920 But anyway, you get my point. That's really far. 471 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,600 Alternative for you? OK, to go north, she has to go 472 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,840 South. She has to go down on someone 473 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,360 there. Gotcha. 474 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,960 Wow. It's the This is the The X-rated 475 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:04,840 version of This Is A Song of Ice and Fire and Sex. 476 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,080 That's just the book already. Is he? 477 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,400 Yeah, OK. Yeah, you're right. 478 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,800 It's anyway, so ASCII is both South and E it's kind of the 479 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,200 extreme in both of those directions. 480 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,280 So it's the, it's the, it's the the thing that she has to do 481 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,640 first. Some both of these to go north, 482 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,600 you have to go South, to go West, you have to go E Well, 483 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,560 ASCII is the farthest South and almost the farthest east or the 484 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,680 the farthest of both those things. 485 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,960 It's really like a city or anything. 486 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,360 Obviously there's the the continent of Olfos, but the 487 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,920 continent of all those has never even been mentioned in the Song 488 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,600 of Ice and Fire and doesn't seem to have any cities or anything. 489 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,280 So to go forward, you must go back. 490 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,320 What about that? That 1A straightforward 491 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,840 interpretation is, you know, to look back at the past or to 492 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,400 examine the past to learn maybe this truth that that Quaithe is 493 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,960 referring to the truth about dragon Lords, the truth about 494 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,800 the nature of Dragons, the truth about the nature of Valyria and 495 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,240 Targaryens. What's the deal there? 496 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,400 Are they, is there dragon, literal dragon blood in her? 497 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,160 Is that part of the secret? Is that the secret? 498 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,320 But this kind of conflicts with another thing that Danny's keep 499 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,360 saying to herself. Also in book one. 500 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,440 If I look back, I'm lost. OK, well, to go forward, you 501 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,520 must go back. All right? 502 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,440 Well, you you can't look back. You can go back, but you can't 503 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,160 look back. So what does that mean? 504 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,000 One great idea that comes from Nina. 505 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,040 I think this theory's been out there, but she's one of the 506 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,720 first people that I've heard it from, if not the first, is that, 507 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,840 well, she's going to go back to the mother of mountains. 508 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,040 So it's a place she's been to. She's got to go back there. 509 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,120 It's really important. It's been foreshadowed. 510 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,200 It's been prophesied in in one, at least one of her dreams where 511 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,360 there's Crohn's emerging from the lake dripping and kneeling 512 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:39,840 before her. Well, that clearly hasn't 513 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,040 happened yet, but you can see how it might if she goes back to 514 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,480 Vaes Dothrak and Drogon burns a bunch of calls or a bunch of 515 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,560 enough sufficient Dothraki to make them kneel to her to say, 516 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,840 oh, look at the that's the ultimate stallion right there, 517 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,160 that we've got horses, but she's riding that. 518 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,360 You can see why that would be superior. 519 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,360 Even though they might have trouble accepting a woman. 520 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,440 Burn enough men and eventually they'll you know, they'll 521 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,400 they'll fall in line, I suppose. So that's a very strong 522 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,400 possibility for the go back part. 523 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,000 Now it could be more multiples. George loves multiple meanings. 524 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,800 It can absolutely be both. It can be going back to the 525 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,560 Dithraki Sea, the mother mountains to win the Dithraki 526 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,920 over, to dominate them, to bring them as part of her army, the 527 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,360 main part of her army. And it can also mean looking 528 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,400 back in time into her ancestry and to the origin of her, you 529 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,960 know, people, her culture and all that, and into the 530 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,480 prophecies that are related to her. 531 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,960 The past is where Azora Hai and Nisa Nisa and the first long 532 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,480 night happened. If she needs to learn about 533 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,800 those things, that would make sense if she does, because she's 534 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,600 such a crucial part of the ultimate high magic aspect of 535 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,920 this story. The the big prophecy, the 536 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,200 others, the Song of ice and fire. 537 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,320 Danny is as wrapped up in that as anyone, maybe the most she 538 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,040 might be the character that's the most wrapped up in it. 539 00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,000 Now what about to touch the light? 540 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,040 Is that the light at the other side of the ultimate darkness? 541 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,960 Is that the the light in the at the end of the tunnel, 542 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,080 proverbially on the other side of the long night? 543 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,480 Does it mean save humanity? Is it the ultimate destiny of 544 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:16,280 hers to be this hero, or is it her own death? 545 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,320 Again, this is a chance for both. 546 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,560 Touching the light, as in achieving, you know, going to 547 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,600 heaven. The equivalent of that by being 548 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,600 a heroic figure, by her living heroic life, dying for a great 549 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520 cause, What better 'cause is there than to save the world? 550 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,440 So, yeah, there's nothing in this prophecy that promises her 551 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,640 survival, but it does. And Quaithe can be ambitious 552 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520 about saving the world without caring much about what happens 553 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,000 to Daenerys. It's like, yeah, I'm sorry, your 554 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,760 life is not important. And the scheme of things, 555 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:47,720 Daenerys. Yes. 556 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,960 This isn't about saving my own life or my own personal goals. 557 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,920 But that doesn't mean you come out of this alive. 558 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,520 You know, Queen Danny, Mother of Dragons. 559 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,080 So pass beneath the shadow to touch the light, right. 560 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,040 To touch the light, you must pass beneath the shadow. 561 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,000 What does that mean? To get to heaven, you must go 562 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,880 through hell. That's that's a way to think 563 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,520 about it again, the shadow of the mother of mountains. 564 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,640 This is where she winds the Dithraki that could be in order 565 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,720 to touch the light, in order to defeat the darkness. 566 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,680 She needs to return to these things to claim this army to do 567 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,480 kind of dark things to win them, burning a bunch of them. 568 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:26,200 That's it's not the most upright thing that for a hero to do, but 569 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,080 it's all in service of a very heroic thing, apparently. 570 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,120 But even at this early point of Quait, even here, even in this 571 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,840 quote we just read that we've been analyzing here for a few 572 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,920 minutes, Danny's already saying, I don't want to go to Ashai. 573 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,440 I don't believe that there's a good reason to go here. 574 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,160 Why doesn't Quaith be more direct? 575 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,520 Why doesn't she say something about what this truth is? 576 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,280 I suppose because Danny wouldn't believe her. 577 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,920 She's like, you got to find these truths for yourself. 578 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,480 You need to learn them on your own or you won't. 579 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,000 You'll just think I'm making this up. 580 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,200 But also, it appears George had already decided by this point 581 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,240 that he wasn't going to have Danny go to Ashai. 582 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040 So Quaithe is pushing for it. Danny's pushing back. 583 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,400 Ashai remains important, but it remains mysterious by her not 584 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,200 going there. So I think that's where the the 585 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,120 equilibrium George settled on here. 586 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,280 But it's interesting that he had already decided that before 587 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,400 introducing Quaithe, the person that says you have to go there. 588 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,280 Yeah. And it's relevant to that. 589 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,960 She calls herself Quaithe of the shadow. 590 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,040 She's not Quaithe of Ashi. Melisandre says Melisandre of 591 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,200 Ashi, and even Melisandre isn't from there. 592 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,200 Actually, maybe nobody is from there, given there's no children 593 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,440 there, so only transplants live in Ash Eye. 594 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,040 So that kind of makes sense. But it's interesting that 595 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,600 Quaithe's origin is in the Shadow lands, apparently. 596 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,000 I mean, maybe she's just calling herself that, but that would 597 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,560 fit. But another quirk about Quaithe 598 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,880 here that I want to throw out here. 599 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,760 While we're talking about her, she's not from Karthe, right? 600 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,560 She's from the shadow. She wears the mask. 601 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,200 She seems to be from she seems genuinely from there. 602 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,120 I mean, maybe that's part of this whole disguise or way of 603 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,440 just manipulating Danny. Even if she's manipulating her 604 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,200 to A to a good cause. Why was she in Karth in the 1st 605 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,960 place? Did she know Danny would be 606 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,800 there? Did she prophecy that meeting 607 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,600 that that the Mother of Dragons would go to Karth? 608 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:19,920 Yeah. How did she know that? 609 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,760 That's interesting. And this delegation was her and 610 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,960 Zarozo and Daxos and Piatt PRI Zarro is extremely wealthy and 611 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,040 powerful. Piatt free is not maybe wealthy, 612 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,040 but powerful. The warlocks have their cultural 613 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,080 place in Karth. Their their power is on the 614 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,240 wane, but it's still recognized and a lot of people still fear 615 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,320 them. So it's kind of an odd pairing 616 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,160 of those two with her. You can see why Zarro and Piatt 617 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,480 are there. But what is this Kartheen 618 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,840 prophet doing there? You know, I mean, this profit 619 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680 from the shadow lands doing there, it seems she's the one 620 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,880 that's a little out of place there. 621 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,720 And that's not in the, you know, not in a way that seems like a 622 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,880 mistake or something. But it's I never really thought 623 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,400 about it in that light before, at least not in this light in 624 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,160 the shadow. Ha ha. 625 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,920 So yeah, I do wonder. But my best guess is is she 626 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,360 foresaw it and knew that's where she could beat Danny and would 627 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,280 be the one place to meet her in person because that's the only 628 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,960 time they meet is in Carth. Those two times or three times 629 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,240 in Carth. And then from then on, it's 630 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,880 dream slash glass candle. Well, we'll get to that. 631 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,920 There's that touch of the hand on her wrist where it tingles 632 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,040 and it tingles later. I don't know what this means, 633 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,400 but my guess is this is how she's able to contact her with a 634 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,880 glass candle. Like like it's like a homing 635 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,000 device, the equivalent of like, OK, I've, I've denoted you, I've 636 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,800 tagged you. Now I can speak to you later 637 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,040 through dreams. Maybe it requires that initial 638 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,320 contact, some sort of like micro spell. 639 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,160 I don't know. I don't know what term to use 640 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,800 for this, but it can't mean nothing that Danny felt the 641 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,120 tingling after Quaithe touched her there. 642 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,280 It's I can't imagine that's just completely nothing, just a 643 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,040 complete red herring, especially given the dreams and stuff 644 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,040 later. And of course, this is where she 645 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,360 says there's no Dragons until you're you're the first born 646 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,920 again into this world. So it seems to confirm that 647 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:18,200 Bran's dream was not of real Dragons or is something of the 648 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,960 future or the past, unless it's an artifact of of a decision 649 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,560 George to change his mind on. So it's after discussing Ashai 650 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,480 with Quaithe and then Jorah. So she comes in and encourages 651 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,040 her again to go to Ashai and Jorah's. 652 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,720 Like at first remember Jorah was telling her go there, but not 653 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,720 because he thought there's truth for her or there's knowledge for 654 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,120 her there. He just wanted to get as far 655 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,320 away from Westeros as possible, probably so he could have her 656 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,800 all to himself, but also because he wanted her as far away from 657 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,920 her enemies as possible, which is somewhat reasonable, but what 658 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,000 it actually leads her to in this case is, well, OK, maybe not 659 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,520 Asha. I'm still against going there. 660 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,880 Guess I'm going to have to do the House of the Undying. 661 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,360 In retrospect, it's, you know, not the best decision she ever 662 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,120 made, but it is. It was certainly important and 663 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:11,880 valuable, even though it's it was very dangerous and almost 664 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,199 got her killed. It's the exact sort of thing 665 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,480 Quaithe warned her about too. This is the other thing about 666 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,639 those three that makes Quaithe a little odd is that Zarro is 667 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:22,520 ambitious for Danny. He wants to marry her, to take 668 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,920 one of her Dragons, if not all of them. 669 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,080 And then we know from the house, the Undying, they were trying to 670 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,520 like, drain her life force, take her drag. 671 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,920 It's not exactly clear, but they intended no good for Danny and 672 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,440 Drogon, I suppose. Now, what happened? 673 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,360 It was a micro version of what we're talking about. 674 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,880 They tried to steal her power, for lack of a better word. 675 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:46,360 And what did she do about it? She burned it. 676 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,400 Drogon did. Really she didn't. 677 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,040 Drogon did it, but he showed her the way. 678 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,480 He he was a dragon. He doesn't have any other mode. 679 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,120 He burned the threat. He's like, these guys are 680 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,680 coming. They're they're bad news for my 681 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,360 mother. I burned them. 682 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,360 Simple, right? There's no need to overthink it. 683 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,000 Burn them. So I think this is part of 684 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,160 Danny's education. It wasn't what Quaith intended, 685 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,560 but it, it gave her an example of exactly what it gave Danny an 686 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,200 example of exactly what Quaith was talking about. 687 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,320 People are going to want to steal your Dragons. 688 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,560 They're going to want to manipulate you into doing things 689 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,800 with your Dragons that benefit them. 690 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,240 They're going to put the guise of, well, this is where Quaithe 691 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:32,560 is overlapping perhaps with her own warning, which is she says 692 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,280 people are going to say it's for good. 693 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,960 They're going to say it's for justice. 694 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,600 They're going to say, you know, all these things. 695 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,440 That will try to get Danny to think, hey, this is a good 696 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,400 'cause I'll lend my support to this, like perhaps getting 697 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,400 embroiled to Slaver's Bay, for example. 698 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,960 But basically she's saying avoid all these embroilments and avoid 699 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,320 all these people who are trying to use you like Zaro, like Piatt 700 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,600 Pre. She's standing right next to 701 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:05,200 them saying like these two guys, beware, I've got your best 702 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,880 interests as heart. No, really I do. 703 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,800 And let me prove that these two guys don't. 704 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,480 And they pretty quickly prove that she was right about that. 705 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,320 And, and Danny never actually like, seems to comprehend this. 706 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,360 She never says. That's pretty much exactly what 707 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,440 Quaithe said. Maybe it's just such common 708 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040 sense that yes, of course people are going to try to use my power 709 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,920 and manipulate me. I'm the Mother of Dragons. 710 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,760 I'm this powerful figure. Of course people are going to 711 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,920 try to do that to me. Quaithe didn't really tell me 712 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,560 anything I didn't know already. Still, it reinforces the idea 713 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:40,200 that Quaithe's overall vibe is world saving and not. 714 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,840 I have an ulterior motive here, but again, don't mistake that 715 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,000 for empathy towards Danny as an individual. 716 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,400 If if world saving is on the is on her list here, Danny's life 717 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,120 probably isn't particularly important. 718 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,680 So as I said about Melisandre, that she is a walking part of 719 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,160 Asha. She is the elements of Asha that 720 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,080 Danny won't go to, they'll maybe come to her. 721 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,000 It also enables, again, George to keep Asha more mysterious by 722 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,440 having flashbacks or just filtered information through 723 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,880 Melisandre. Quaith is can still be part of 724 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,240 that too. Quaith probably won't appear in 725 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,120 person in Westeros, though she might. 726 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,640 And and why not? Hey, Quaith, if you're serious 727 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,440 about saving the world, you better you should show up. 728 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,040 Also put your money where your mouth is or your mask is. 729 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,280 But either way, through her, we might learn a little more about 730 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,560 Ashai and, you know, maybe she'll say some other things 731 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,680 besides this prophecy. So I do think that just from 732 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,640 there, just from the Clash of Kings of Game of Thrones 733 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,680 elements here, we get two things To save the world. 734 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,160 You must be a dragon, Dragon save the world. 735 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,520 And that just means, yeah, it's a little counterintuitive. 736 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,600 You got to destroy a lot of things to save the world. 737 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,880 But that's a tough lesson to learn. 738 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,040 It's a tough truth to accept. And that's part of why maybe 739 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,840 Quaithe is a little cagey about it. 740 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,280 OK, so the class of King's Ash Eye recap, if we go through a 741 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,120 lot of what we said, it's a shorter list than A Game of 742 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,200 Thrones. These lists are going to get 743 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,640 shorter as we go through them because, well, you don't have to 744 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,320 reintroduce things that have already been introduced. 745 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,320 And yeah, a lot was introduced in the first book. 746 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,960 So here we go. Melisandre, the Azor High 747 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,560 prophecy. So that's really important 748 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,000 because we, yeah, we heard technically there was a shadow 749 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,120 binder from a shy, like I said, but we didn't have a name, we 750 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,960 didn't have an identity, we didn't have any back story and 751 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,480 we didn't have any of these Azor High prophecy. 752 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,520 That is all a clash of kings. The whole Nisa Nisa Azor High 753 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,720 forging the sword, all that business that comes in book 2. 754 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,600 And then the comet is part of bringing that on because of the 755 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,800 remember the beginning of that prophecy is when the Red Star 756 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,000 bleeds. Yeah. 757 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,080 Also the strangler comes up in this book, A clash of kings. 758 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:59,120 That's the Strangler is a poison from ash eye so dark purple that 759 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,640 it appears black, appropriately shadowy like the Shadow Lands, 760 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,280 Right. Incidentally, I decided on a 761 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:08,960 plain all black shirt today in honor of the Shadow. 762 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,440 That's like the Shane. I couldn't think of a time when 763 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,840 I didn't wear some sort of Game of Thrones shirt for an episode. 764 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,800 Yeah. I feel like there might have 765 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,240 been a time you did a plain green shirt for the greens, but 766 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,520 maybe that was Sean. One time. 1 of you guys did do a 767 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,120 plain shirt though. That's our own personal lore 768 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,680 there, Shirt lore. And then again at the end of the 769 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,920 book, Sansa gets her purple necklace. 770 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,880 That of course, doesn't really come into play until the next 771 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,480 book when it's used to murder Joffrey. 772 00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,440 But technically it is given to her at the end of the Clash of 773 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,000 Kings. Quait's prophecy, of course, 774 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,720 like I said, also is comes in this book. 775 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,400 We we talked about that a lot already. 776 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,280 So it's important to denote that both the Azora High prophecy and 777 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,160 Quait's prophecy both come in Clash of Kings. 778 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,560 Both pretty early in the book too. 779 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,120 So yeah, Danny's wondering how to train her Dragons, and you 780 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:53,760 could see why that might relate to Asha. 781 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,560 She wants to learn about dragon lore and there's since there's 782 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,680 no Valyria to learn those things from. 783 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,440 Well, maybe the place that had Dragons before that, even though 784 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,760 it's been so, so long, Well, Shy is still there. 785 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,600 Even if it's she's not going to go there, that doesn't mean she 786 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,360 can't acquire some of that knowledge through other means, 787 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,560 through other people who maybe already learned that knowledge. 788 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,600 Quite possibly the House of the Undying, which we think is 789 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,920 related to Ashy for some. Parts of it because the just 790 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,760 some of the things she learns there are related to what she 791 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,840 might have learned in a shy had she gone there, right? 792 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,280 That's maybe the some of the meta is that a scene like House 793 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,520 of the Undying might have happened in a shy if she had 794 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,440 actually gone there, right, Instead of it happening in 795 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,440 Karth, which is kind of a random place for that to happen, you 796 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,440 know, George had to kind of invent the warlocks and all 797 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,040 that, which reasonable thing to do. 798 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,160 It worked, but it doesn't seem like that was part of the 799 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,960 original plan. He's like, let's rather than go 800 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,360 all the way to shy, we'll go most of the way and do this 801 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,760 other stuff instead. So. 802 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,240 And again, Jorah stops suggesting Ashai. 803 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,160 He just thinks about not staying in one place. 804 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,320 He's more concerned with not setting down roots anywhere 805 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,400 where they where the usurper and his knives can find out where 806 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,520 they are. Of course they also find out the 807 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,640 usurper is quite dead, but that's the last chapter in the 808 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,960 book for her now. Zarro again, actually, though 809 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,720 he's one of the ones Quaithe warned about or the type that he 810 00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:13,880 warned about or she warned about is also against quote such 811 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,240 truce. The Ash Eye E horde are not like 812 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,160 to make you smile. Well, that's not an argument 813 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,560 against it, Zaro. She wants to learn truths. 814 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,240 Those truths might be painful, they might be difficult, but she 815 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,840 needs to learn them. She's not the type to just be 816 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,920 sidelined and live in your mansion and and be wealthy and 817 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,880 sail the Jade Sea. Because as we recall, he did 818 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,480 offer specifically that she said no. 819 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,880 So in the final chapter, which is she only has five chapters in 820 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,480 the Clash of Kings, quite a bit happens in them, even though 821 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,320 it's just a lot of it is in Karthware, which feels like a 822 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,520 dead end in some ways. She has a lot of changed her 823 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,880 perspective and learns a lot of supernatural stuff there. 824 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,880 Anyway, she learns also that Robert is dead and Illyrio's 825 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,880 three ships show up to bring her West. 826 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,720 So it's like explicitly she goes West on these ships that come to 827 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:07,240 pick her up and she's like, yes. Now of course she does do the 828 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,000 thing that could have wound up taking her to a shot. 829 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,120 Maybe George's original plan was Illyrio's going to send these 830 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,720 ships and she's going to make them go E because what she does 831 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:18,520 instead is make them go to Slaver's Bay. 832 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:19,960 That wasn't part of the plan either. 833 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,680 She's she'd still diverts the ships and tells them to go 834 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,320 somewhere that Illyrio didn't want. 835 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,400 It just happens to be a different place that maybe it 836 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,840 was originally planned. Let's talk about Quaythin 837 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,240 dreams. She continues to appear after A 838 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,560 Clash of Kings, as I said, and as you probably know. 839 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:41,920 But not in person, of course. Here's Danny 3A Storm of Swords 840 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,560 quote. Someone was in the cabin with 841 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,000 her. Eerie. 842 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,280 Jeeky, where are you? Her handmaids did not respond. 843 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,120 It was too black to see, but she could hear them breathing. 844 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,880 Jorah, is that you? They sleep, a woman said. 845 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,440 They all sleep. The voice was very close. 846 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,080 Even Dragons must sleep. Oh, she's standing over me. 847 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,840 Who's there? Danny peered into the darkness. 848 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:16,280 She thought she could see a shadow, the faintest outline of 849 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,640 a shape. What do you want of me? 850 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,240 Remember, to go north, you must journey S. 851 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,400 To reach the West, you must go east, to go forward you must go 852 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,040 back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow 853 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,440 Quaithe. Danny sprung from the bed and 854 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,440 threw open the door. Pale yellow Lantern light 855 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,600 flooded the cabin and Eerie and Jeeky sat up sleepily. 856 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,880 This is Quaithe's first dream appearance. 857 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,840 Assuming that's what this is, I do operate on the assumption 858 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,080 that this is a dream that she's appearing in via glass candle. 859 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,160 That's a whole other mechanism we'll discuss another day, but 860 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,360 we'll operate on that assumption for now, with the perhaps 861 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,800 touching her on the wrist thing being how it was all set up. 862 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,640 I like how George wrote this, how she can barely see a shadow, 863 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,520 the faintest outline, and it's a shadow, Clayth of the shadow. 864 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:09,440 That's cool. I like that. 865 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,040 Now this is the same chapter where Danny claims the 866 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,600 Unsullied. That's what kind of what happens 867 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,240 next year. So she wakes up, she's like 868 00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:16,760 Quaithe, and then Quaithe isn't there. 869 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:17,840 She's like, well, that was weird. 870 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,680 And then she goes and pulls this awesome move. 871 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,880 In a way, she was a dragon in that scene. 872 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,840 She turns the Plaza of Punishment into something even 873 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,720 more worthy of its name. A hell for the slaver. 874 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,640 She burns the hell out of them, literally. 875 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,400 It's their ultimate punishment. The Unsullied stand there 876 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,200 because then, well, she makes quite sure they understand that 877 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,400 the ownership has passed from them to her. 878 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,360 And, well, they may have been kind of pleased to see what 879 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,200 happened to the Old Masters there, the Krasnismo Naclas and 880 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:55,000 his ilk. So maybe Quaithe was giving her 881 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,600 the little extra motivation boost she needed to pull that 882 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,240 off, but maybe not. Maybe Danny was quite set on 883 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:04,840 that plan well ahead of time. And it's because it does kind of 884 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,200 seem like Quaithe didn't need to be involved, like Danny figured 885 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,640 this all out on her own. But it is interesting to note 886 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,240 that Danny's kind of acting the way that Quaithe wants her to, 887 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:16,760 in a sense, even though she's not going the direction she 888 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,760 wants her to. She's not going to Ash. 889 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,600 I this is not. This is the final nail in the 890 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,240 coffin of going to Ashai, if you want to look at it this way, 891 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:26,760 because I certainly do. And here's why. 892 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,720 Ashai is a place with no food. It's just, it's a scarce food 893 00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:34,520 environment, but it's the worst place to bring an army. 894 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,840 She just acquires 8000 Unsullied in this moment or later in that 895 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,840 chapter, that's the you're no longer going to Ashai when you 896 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,920 just acquired a large army. Yeah, unless you're separating 897 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,560 from the army, which she does actually separate from the army 898 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,920 later and goes to the Traki Sea. Not to a shy though still. 899 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,520 So you can see how this pushes her even farther from a shy. 900 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,520 It doesn't eliminate it entirely, but it's like, OK, 901 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,480 you've got a big ol army now and they only kind of follow you. 902 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,000 Yeah, they they don't, they don't have their own captains so 903 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,960 much they they're more followers than leaders, etcetera. 904 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,640 That changes a little bit over time, but it's it's definitely a 905 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,480 big point against going to a shy. 906 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,320 So if George wanted her to go there and and still entertaining 907 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,800 it, well, it it doesn't seem likely. 908 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,640 Seems like he changed his mind again before this point, if not 909 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,960 well before this point as we said. 910 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,600 And again, doesn't appear to have anything to do with the 911 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,080 five year gap. Let's look ahead though to A 912 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,920 Dance with Dragons before jumping back because I wanted to 913 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,160 kind of cover all of Coit's appearances at once. 914 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,480 Here's Danny, too, A Dance with Dragons. 915 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,240 Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. 916 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,120 Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the Others. 917 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,120 Kraken and dark flame, lion and Griffin, the sun's sun and the 918 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,040 mummer's dragon. Trust none of them remember the 919 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,640 Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal. 920 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,920 Resnack. Why should I fear him? 921 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,800 Danny Rose from the pool. Water trickled down her legs and 922 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,160 goose flesh covered her arms in the cool night air. 923 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,960 If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. 924 00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:20,480 What do you want of me, Quaithe? Moonlight shone in the woman's 925 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,960 eyes. To show you the way I remember 926 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,560 the way. I go north, to go southeast, to 927 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,240 go West back, to go forward. And to touch the light I have to 928 00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:33,800 pass beneath the shadow. She squeezed the water from her 929 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,720 silvery hair. I am half sick of riddling. 930 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,720 In Carth I was a beggar, but here I am a queen. 931 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,520 I command you, Daenerys. Remember the undying, remember 932 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,400 who you are, the blood of the dragon. 933 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,640 But my Dragons are roaring in the darkness. 934 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,880 I like a little bit about moonlight in her eyes. 935 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,440 That's neat. The moonlight in her eyes. 936 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,760 It's a reminder of how Quaithe keeps appearing. 937 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,880 Quaithe has Starlight in her mask at one point, and now 938 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,680 moonlight as well. So it's kind of a recurring 939 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,960 little feature of celestial association with her. 940 00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:09,800 You can see Danny's annoyance here. 941 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,360 She's like, yeah, you told me I'm tired of your riddles. 942 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:14,800 She's already tired of the riddles before this. 943 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,920 But there is a new aspect to it here, of course, this is the add 944 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,800 on the the whole bit about the glass candles burning, the pale 945 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,760 mare, the others cracking dark flame, lion, Griffin, etcetera. 946 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,440 All them. That's the new part. 947 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:31,320 That's a big part, But Danny doesn't really want to hear it. 948 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,040 It seems like she's not like, let me take notes. 949 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,440 Let me write down those names. See cracking dark flame. 950 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,720 I better, I better, you know, get get each of these 951 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:40,840 individualized. And she's maybe a little 952 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,760 arrogant about it. She's like, and Kartha, I was a 953 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,280 beggar, but here my I command you. 954 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,520 Like who does she think she's commanding a dream? 955 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,840 Like I don't know about that Danny. 956 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,480 That's it's not going to work. Like that's not the not the 957 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,400 attitude or the the tactic you should take here, I think. 958 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,680 But it is in a sense, it's sort of the right path because she's 959 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,960 telling Danny to take charge and be a dragon. 960 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,680 Remember the undying, remember who you are. 961 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,440 What was the lesson of the undying? 962 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,680 They were bull. They were trying to pull a fast 963 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,040 one on her. The lesson is don't trust them. 964 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,440 The Undying promised you wealth and knowledge and the secret 965 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,240 speech of Dragons and all this stuff. 966 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:21,440 And it was just a scam. So Quaithe is reminding her, 967 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,480 yeah, don't get scammed. Don't believe this stuff. 968 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,360 You know, focus on the ultimate goal here. 969 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,520 And, of course, what happens in A Dance With Dragons. 970 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,760 She absolutely gets embroiled in Slaver's Bay. 971 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,560 I don't think that Quaithe wanted that It's hard to tell 972 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,320 Danny a person that she wants to save the world. 973 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,480 Presuming that's the case, Sis, you know, hey, don't worry about 974 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,360 all the slaves, you know what do they matter? 975 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,240 It's that's a tough argument against someone who's you're 976 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:54,160 relying on their generosity on their on their wanting to save 977 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,600 people. You can't say, well, don't save 978 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,480 all these people from this horrible death that you can 979 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,840 actually see and perceive tangibly. 980 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,360 No, no, no. Leave them alone because the, 981 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,320 the real supernatural, magical death is coming. 982 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:09,440 That's the one you got to focus on. 983 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:10,720 Like, how's she supposed to know that? 984 00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:12,400 Like, she, she's never seen the other. 985 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,040 She's had a, a dream here and there. 986 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,000 There's been some warnings, but like, this is all very 987 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,960 metaphysical, very uncertain to her. 988 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,000 And, and you can see Danny doesn't really treat it very 989 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,920 seriously either. She's like, yeah, I, I, I know, 990 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,680 Quaif, why don't you speak more plainly? 991 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,760 I'm tired of this. So she's focused on what she can 992 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,920 see, what's what's more tangible to her, which is Slavers Bay is 993 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,040 awful. Slavers Bay is full of, well, 994 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,760 slavery. And that's about as awful as it 995 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,360 gets, especially their version of it. 996 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,000 So be a dragon again. Well, that's how she dealt with 997 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,080 the Undying. If Kwaitz is saying don't get 998 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,560 embroiled here, maybe what she's saying is, well, you should. 999 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,880 Well, maybe embroiled is the wrong word because you should be 1000 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,080 broiling all these people. Do what you did at Astapour, 1001 00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:57,520 just burn them all. That's like kind of what the 1002 00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:58,960 Shavepate is kind of saying to do. 1003 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,000 Maybe listen to him, you know, because there's actually bigger 1004 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,520 and more important things, which is, you know, hard for her to 1005 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,720 accept but might be the truth. And again, it could be a warning 1006 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:12,320 because the warlocks came seeking revenge, right? 1007 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:17,480 We know that Piatt pre gathered his remaining people together to 1008 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,920 enact revenge on Danny, but we know that Euron has absconded 1009 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,920 with them. Does Quaith know that? 1010 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,560 Maybe I think so because she doesn't say, hey, the warlocks 1011 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,480 are coming for you. She does say the Kraken is 1012 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,320 coming for you. And that doesn't mean she knows 1013 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,600 that Euron has stolen their revenge and that he has the 1014 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,560 dragon egg and all that stuff. Anyway, that's a whole another 1015 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,400 story, but it it's it's related for sure. 1016 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,840 So I think it's again, it's just you could definitely interpret 1017 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,000 this scene as Quaithe saying stay focused on the core mission 1018 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,160 and don't forget that you can solve a lot of problems by 1019 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,840 burning them. It's not the most high minded 1020 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,600 solution. And you kind of do wonder why 1021 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,720 Quais doesn't just straight up say that like just burn more 1022 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:00,400 things. You know, maybe because Danny 1023 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,680 wouldn't listen if she if if Quais said things like that, 1024 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,840 she's like, I'm not going to take advice from this person 1025 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:10,040 that just preaches devastation as an answer, that it's going to 1026 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,640 take Danny learning or coming to terms with some things maybe to 1027 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,800 accept that actually devastation might be the answer to at least 1028 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,600 some of these problems. But she's young and maybe thinks 1029 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,320 that there's other ways to do that. 1030 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,000 Time may prove her wrong, but Quaith may be also telling her 1031 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,320 you don't have that much time. Now there is one more Quaithe 1032 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,840 appearance, although it's arguably, is this an appearance 1033 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,160 or is this Danny's imagination? Well, that's part of what we 1034 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,400 have to think about here. It's out on the Dothraki Sea 1035 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,920 quote. Off in the distance, a wolf 1036 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,920 howled. The sound made her feel sad and 1037 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,440 lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the 1038 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,160 grasslands, Danny slipped at last into a restless leap. 1039 00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:01,000 She dreamed all her cares fell away from her, and all her pains 1040 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,960 as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. 1041 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,840 She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as 1042 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,000 the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. 1043 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,880 To go north, you must journey South. 1044 00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:19,680 To reach the West, you must go E. 1045 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,640 To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light, you must 1046 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,080 pass beneath the shadow. Quaith. 1047 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,160 Danny called. Where are you, Quaith? 1048 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:36,040 Then she saw her mask is made of Starlight. 1049 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,640 Remember who you are, Daenerys, the stars whispered in a woman's 1050 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,920 voice. The Dragons know, do you? 1051 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,080 So again, she's in deprivation here. 1052 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:52,440 She's not sure she's hungry. She's kind of reviewing a lot of 1053 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,480 what's happened to her. Like there's a later scene here 1054 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,000 where she's thinking about what Jorah said and she's kind of 1055 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,920 having a debate with Starlight Jorah or just Celestial Jorah. 1056 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,280 She's kind of, and then she also does the same with Visceras. 1057 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,520 So she's kind of talking to the voices in her mind. 1058 00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,920 Not that she's like going crazy, but she's starving and she's 1059 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,680 having conversations with the people that objected to certain 1060 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,960 things she did and she's now thinking about why she's where 1061 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:19,160 she is. And maybe it's because she 1062 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,720 didn't listen to that advice. And again, you just see this 1063 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,320 point is driven home. It's separated by many chapters 1064 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:27,880 with other characters and even many books. 1065 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,280 But Quath just keeps saying the same thing. 1066 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,160 She says the whole NS, pass me, the shadow, touch the light 1067 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,480 stuff and remember who you are, the Dragons, etcetera. 1068 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,920 You're a dragon. It just keeps over and over 1069 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,200 being that. Whether we understand what that 1070 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,840 means, I'm not 100% sure, but we certainly have pinpointed that 1071 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:47,720 there's not a lot of variation here. 1072 00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:49,280 Quite the saying the same things. 1073 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:52,560 Now she added on that bit about dark flame and cracking and all 1074 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,840 that, but that's just she ends that with trust. 1075 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,880 None of them. It's a repeat of the same 1076 00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,240 warning she already gave. It's just more specific. 1077 00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,440 She's saying don't trust anyone and then in a later warning she 1078 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,680 just gives specifics. She says crack and dark flame. 1079 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,360 Those are guys you shouldn't trust first. 1080 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,520 She's like Zaro and Piatt pre whisper now these other people, 1081 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,360 pretty much nobody can she trust. 1082 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,800 It's no one is really on that same path of of saving the 1083 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,040 world. That's not a path most people 1084 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,480 are on, right? They're they're just out for 1085 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,080 themselves. That's that's most of humanity, 1086 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,960 right. Those people aren't that willing 1087 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,200 to die for for everything or for everyone. 1088 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,600 So this is where I think a lot of the narrative purpose for 1089 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,520 Ash. I was shifted into these dreams. 1090 00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,080 It's still there. Quaeth is the representative of 1091 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:34,600 Ash. I she's from the shadows. 1092 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,920 She's got these prophecies just like other plot lines are driven 1093 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,080 by some prophecies. You know, there's the ghost of 1094 00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,120 high heart, there's people like Amon and trying to avoid ones 1095 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,400 that are specifically related to Danny, but they're even because 1096 00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,920 Amon actually is related to Danny, but they're like 1097 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,000 literally related to her. But you know what I mean? 1098 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,440 There's other there's other prophecies too and other things 1099 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:55,720 that have been predicted that came true. 1100 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:01,480 So I think that's we can see evidence of that here where we 1101 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,960 still get the influence of Ash Eye, but it's through these 1102 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,200 characters and through the magic of Ash Eye and the shadow lands 1103 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,000 rather than through direct contact. 1104 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,800 And again, we have this mask of Starlight. 1105 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,880 Remember I pointed that out a minute ago with the with the 1106 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,320 moonlight in her eyes. Again, the mask of Starlight 1107 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,040 too. And in the first example, there 1108 00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,880 was stars as well. So Danny's dreams and and Quaith 1109 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,080 have this recurring sort of setting to them, I guess, or 1110 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:31,520 certain details that repeat. Now, to be fair, when Danny also 1111 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:41,920 had her fever when she was after the big moment where she goes 1112 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,320 into the tent where Jorah carries her into the tent, she's 1113 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,600 been hit by a rock. And obviously Mary Mazdor is 1114 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,760 doing the sorcery and then Rago dies. 1115 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,960 So she has that vision, which is an extensive dream that it's 1116 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,560 like a a vision. Then the phrase don't want to 1117 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,000 wake the dragon, a vision. Then the phrase want to wake the 1118 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,320 dragon, then a vision, then to wake the dragon, then a vision 1119 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,200 wake the dragon. So it's like that word game 1120 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,640 where you remove a word from the beginning of the sentence and it 1121 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,240 changes the meaning each time until it coalesces into wake the 1122 00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:18,200 dragon and it's her. And because she in the same 1123 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,920 vision, it coalesces or climaxes with her back rips open, wings 1124 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,520 burst forth, she flies and there's like the shadow of her 1125 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,320 wings. And yes, it actually uses the 1126 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,080 phrase shadow. Can't help but be reminded of 1127 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,560 the scene Game of Thrones, Yeah, where she has wings behind her 1128 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,160 back, to be clear. Yeah, that's a very good one to 1129 00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,000 think of because it it definitely illustrates this, 1130 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,560 what she was probably seeing in her dreams. 1131 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,800 And yeah, that was a cool moment in the show. 1132 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,040 So again, those supernatural ancestors, this is that dream 1133 00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:52,240 she's having the dream of the ghost with pale swords and 1134 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,960 silver and platinum hair and gemstone eyes of various colors 1135 00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,960 that very much seem like they might be her distant ancestors. 1136 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,440 We've talked about that separately. 1137 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,440 These might be ancestors older than Valyria. 1138 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,600 They're saying the same thing. They're the ones saying wake the 1139 00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:08,760 dragon. Also, they're they're kind of 1140 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,880 quafing her here. They're kind of doing the same 1141 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,360 thing. They're telling her to be a 1142 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,680 dragon. They're telling her to know who 1143 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,640 she is and they're telling her to destroy. 1144 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,560 They're telling her to burn, and this is the shadow before the 1145 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,080 light. This is the hell before heaven. 1146 00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,560 This is exactly what Koait was saying. 1147 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,160 But again, nothing says she will be alive to see it herself, that 1148 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,960 she will be part of this new world that she maybe is, is 1149 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,360 helping create for for the rest of humanity. 1150 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,560 Now here's where I want to return to that because yes, 1151 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,120 we've talked about that dream before, the fever dream, 1152 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,520 especially the ghostly ancestors, but I want to talk 1153 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,840 about the part that comes just after it because we have a 1154 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,520 connection that isn't explicitly Ashai, but I think because those 1155 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,400 ghosts are associated with ancestry that might date back to 1156 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,200 ancient Ashai, we should consider it. 1157 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,840 So here's the end of that dream, right after the Gemstone 1158 00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:04,360 Ancestor ghosts part quote. The door loomed before her, the 1159 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:09,920 red door so close, so close. The hall was a blur around her, 1160 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:15,120 the cold receding behind, and now the stone was gone, and she 1161 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:20,000 flew across the Dithraki Sea, high and higher, the green 1162 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,000 rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in 1163 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,200 terror. From the shadow of her wings she 1164 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,280 could smell home. She could see it there, just 1165 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,920 beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms 1166 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,960 to keep her warm. There. 1167 00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,240 She threw open the door. The dragon. 1168 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:46,040 And saw her brother Rhaegar mounted on a stallion as black 1169 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,080 as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the 1170 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,320 narrow eye slit of his helm. The Last Dragon. 1171 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,080 Sir, Jorah's voice whispered faintly. 1172 00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,480 The last, the last. Danny lifted his polished black 1173 01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,440 visor. The face within was her own. 1174 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:08,920 After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the 1175 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:13,040 fire within her. And the whisperings of stars. 1176 01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,680 So there you go, another example of the whisperings of stars. 1177 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,360 Again, the celestial setting for her dreamscape. 1178 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,520 This leads to her feverish in and out sleep where she asks for 1179 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,120 a dragon egg to kind of settle her. 1180 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,120 And eventually she realizes, oh, my son is dead. 1181 01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,720 That's, you know, the red doors at the beginning and the end of 1182 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,600 the stream. And it seems to be the red door 1183 01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,680 is not her ultimate fate. Her dusty wants the red door 1184 01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,240 represents home, but she's not going home. 1185 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,400 Behind the door was her brother believing he's the last dragon, 1186 01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,160 which is actually her. And well we know what happened 1187 01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,160 to to Rhaegar as well. Almost everyone in this vision 1188 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,840 dies. We've got Drogo in this vision. 1189 01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,800 He turns to ash. Viserys, he gets gold poured on 1190 01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,480 him. Rhaegar his heart burst into 1191 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,160 flame. The the pale ancestor ghosts, 1192 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,120 they're long dead and Rhaegar now, not her, she's alive and 1193 01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,680 not Sir Jorah, who's also in the dream and at least he's not dead 1194 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,600 yet, but he is kind of out of her life, at least for now. 1195 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,840 So the chapter begins with wings shadowed her fever dreams. 1196 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,120 That's the first line. So you got wings shadowed again. 1197 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:23,320 The shadow of wings is just is a very constant refrain and it's 1198 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,600 comes up multiple times in that chapter alone and let alone 1199 01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,320 elsewhere in other chapters. So there's quite a few 1200 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,760 references to that. So we have that and the telling 1201 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,600 of her to be a dragon and again be a dragon in service of the 1202 01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,440 world, destroy to save the world. 1203 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,280 Doesn't sound right, but we can see it. 1204 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,160 I think she seems to come to terms with it. 1205 01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,200 She hasn't acted on it yet because this coming to terms 1206 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,720 with it is in her final chapter in the dance with Dragon. 1207 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,200 We haven't had another chapter from her yet. 1208 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:57,040 So we haven't seen if this seeming acceptance of the 1209 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,360 decision or of this reality is going to translate into 1210 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,080 immediate action or what. We don't know yet, but it it, it 1211 01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,880 seems meaningful. It seems like it might be a big 1212 01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,240 turning point. Let's let's look at it. 1213 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,160 Here's the quote. She's no longer seen Quaist. 1214 01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:10,640 She's seeing Sir Jora at this point. 1215 01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:15,760 You took Marine, he told her. Yet still you lingered to be a 1216 01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,040 queen. You are a queen, her bear said. 1217 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:23,920 In Westeros it is such a long way, she complained. 1218 01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,720 I was tired, Jora. I was weary of war. 1219 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:32,480 I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. 1220 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,280 I am only a young girl. No, you are the blood of the 1221 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,680 dragon. The whispering was growing 1222 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,640 fainter, as if Serjora were falling farther behind. 1223 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,040 Dragons plant no trees, remember that. 1224 01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,720 Remember who you are, what you were made to be. 1225 01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,920 Remember your words, fire and blood. 1226 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,720 Daenerys told the swaying grass. Yeah, she says fire and blood. 1227 01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,480 It's like she accepts it. She's like, yeah, I know what 1228 01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,640 they are. Again, this is more explicit. 1229 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,600 This is more specific. It's not just be a dragon. 1230 01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:09,600 This is Dragons. Plant no trees. 1231 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,800 This is Dragons. Don't watch things grow. 1232 01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,600 This is I wanted this. I wanted home, space-time. 1233 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,040 No, that's the answer to that. You don't have that. 1234 01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,520 You can't have that. That's not your destiny. 1235 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,360 That's not what this world has given you. 1236 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,960 You have a duty, and you can see she's rejecting it. 1237 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:29,800 She doesn't want that, she says. I wanted to rest. 1238 01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,600 I wanted to laugh. Plant trees, see them grow 1239 01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,960 Quaithe, I guess kind of maybe perceives this or did perceive 1240 01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,640 that and it was part of why she gave her A Little Dream kick in 1241 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,040 the butt to be like, remember who you are. 1242 01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,720 I remember what you got to do go E you got to go West. 1243 01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,000 I said it all that that's why she says the same things and 1244 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,280 annoys her with that. But you can see here it looks 1245 01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:55,200 like maybe Danny has accepted it took her being in a bad state, 1246 01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,400 which maybe was important. She's no longer trying to tell 1247 01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,480 Quaithe what to do. She's not a queen out of the 1248 01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,000 Dothraki Sea, at least not with the same level of authority, 1249 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,640 even if she has her dragon. But men changed her perspective. 1250 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,080 Nothing like having no food and thinking you're going to die to 1251 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,320 change your perspective, right? She's wrestling with her 1252 01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:13,520 decisions via these ghosts. She's thinking about the 1253 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,160 mistakes she made or other paths she could have taken and 1254 01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,520 realizing that, well, this is the path that she has to take, 1255 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,600 that she's got to be Daenerys the Destroyer, not Daenerys the 1256 01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,120 Mother of dragon. Well, she can be both, but 1257 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:29,040 ultimately she has to destroy. It seems that many will have to 1258 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,360 pass beneath the shadow to see the light, right? 1259 01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,560 It's not just going to be her. She's going to have to lead 1260 01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:38,920 other people through that hell to perhaps see the light, the 1261 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,160 heaven on the other side. Not everyone will make it. 1262 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,160 Returning from a Europe trip, we, Shea and I went to Spain. 1263 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,440 It can be kind of difficult to get back into your routines. 1264 01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,920 You know, it's a time lag, and just being somewhere else for a 1265 01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,640 while just throws you off. You know, I probably don't have 1266 01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:01,920 to explain the concept, but yeah, one way that we deal with 1267 01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,480 that is by using Ryze productivity software. 1268 01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:10,120 It can really help organize your day, can tell you when to start 1269 01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,000 or when to finish based on the guidelines you give it, and most 1270 01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,600 importantly, it helps you get from getting distracted. 1271 01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,800 That's a big problem for me. I'm not a very focused guy. 1272 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,440 I'm always like, oh, shiny thing on the Internet, let me read 1273 01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,240 about this, even if it's like in the cause of doing work, you 1274 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:27,800 know, I read all sorts of things that might relate to this 1275 01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,400 episode that I ultimately decided that's a little too off 1276 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,480 the beaten path. But in some cases I found stuff 1277 01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,960 that did help. Rise is really helpful with to 1278 01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,760 me in parsing all that I'm saying, Hey, obviously looking 1279 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:39,000 at Facebook isn't going to help me. 1280 01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,600 But if I'm looking, if I'm reading scholarly articles and 1281 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,480 reading different forums or just reading different theories about 1282 01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,120 the shadow or taking time on my own, that helps keep me focused. 1283 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,160 Rises like, hey, don't do, don't look at Twitter, don't look at 1284 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,000 Facebook. But I could tell it which 1285 01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,720 websites are OK and it can give me those warnings and that helps 1286 01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:02,560 stand in for my own lack of focus. 1287 01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,520 It's like a like a little extra little part of my brain that 1288 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,280 does what my my own focus can't do. 1289 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,720 It's like steps in for me. You know, it's funny as these 1290 01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:13,800 is, I use it to do the flip side too. 1291 01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:19,360 Oh yeah, in that sometimes I am overly focused and I just don't 1292 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:20,960 get up. I don't take a break. 1293 01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,720 And Rise will be like, hey, it's been like 2 hours and you 1294 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,640 haven't gotten up. Or it'll be like, hey, you've 1295 01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,920 worked over 8 hours today. It'll be like 12 hours. 1296 01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:32,560 You should stop. And I'll be like, you're right, 1297 01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,040 Rise. I did work more than I should 1298 01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:36,680 have today. Let me just like. 1299 01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:38,800 Don't get burned out. Yeah, yeah. 1300 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,240 So you know, it worked for, for, for focus in a in a few ways 1301 01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:43,680 really. And it can really help at the 1302 01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,040 end of the week when it tells you how you worked this much. 1303 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,880 That can be kind of satisfying. Be like, hey, that's AI. 1304 01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,120 Did I put in a pretty good week? And it can really help you feel 1305 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:52,760 better about what you've accomplished rather than just 1306 01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,400 having it kind of fall into the ether. 1307 01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,440 Like, yeah, I worked a lot this week, but I don't really know 1308 01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:57,960 what that means. You know, I don't know how I 1309 01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,400 couldn't tell you how many hours that was. 1310 01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,800 But, well, with Ryze, you can. If you use the code Westeros 3, 1311 01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,720 you get 25% off all payments within the first three months. 1312 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:10,240 The link is in the description. We hope you sign up and 1313 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:13,560 experience the same sort of productivity boost that it's 1314 01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:15,920 been helping us with. Also want to remind you all to 1315 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,760 check out me on twitchtwitch.tv/history of 1316 01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,760 Westeros. We play Crusader Kings Three 1317 01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,400 with the Song of Ice and Fire mod. 1318 01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,440 It's extremely detailed, well made. 1319 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,480 My folks are currently playing House Corbray. 1320 01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,840 We are. We've changed the religion so 1321 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,120 that we really value ancestor worship. 1322 01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,520 And then the game has a little feature where you can 1323 01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:45,760 occasionally have a a child born that is of like is the spitting 1324 01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:49,960 image of their grandmother or grand a grandfather or some even 1325 01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,400 farther back ancestor. And then they they acquire 1326 01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,600 qualities of that character. It is kind of like a little bit 1327 01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:56,720 of a reborn, like a reincarnation thing on a minor 1328 01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,240 scale. And that's been particularly 1329 01:07:58,240 --> 01:07:59,800 fun. I'm hoping for, you know, a 1330 01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,640 reborn Gwaine Corbray or something like that. 1331 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,600 That's the guy who was in the Kingsguard that fought Damon 1332 01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,400 Blackfire. But maybe other things are in 1333 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,000 the cards for us anyway. twitch.tv History of Westeros 1334 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,960 every Friday at 6:00 Eastern. It's a lot of fun. 1335 01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:19,479 Help me make decisions, help me name my children and my kingdoms 1336 01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:20,760 and all that. It's great time. 1337 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,200 Let's get back to it. The A Storm of Swords ash I 1338 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,680 recap. As I said before, these recaps 1339 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:26,960 get shorter and shorter as we go. 1340 01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:28,560 That's why I'm going to do several in a row here. 1341 01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,479 The only little bits here we've got Mance's cloak. 1342 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:36,479 He gets his cloak sewn up with a bit of red silk from Ash Eye, 1343 01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,760 and it's symbolic of the uniformity and the lack of 1344 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:44,279 freedom and independence that's inherent to being a member of 1345 01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,640 the Night's Watch, something that Mance didn't really have 1346 01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:52,240 the choice in when he was young. He, of course, is was born into 1347 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,040 the Night's Watch. He wasn't really someone who as 1348 01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,880 a adult said, yes, I want to join. 1349 01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,319 So for him it was. Yeah. 1350 01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:01,120 Anyway, so Ash Eye is kind of an interesting association there. 1351 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,920 And it's kind of neat to see just the extreme opposite ends 1352 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,040 of the world there when something of from Ash Eye 1353 01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:11,640 appears beyond the wall. Well, that's that's interesting 1354 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:17,279 because they're so far apart. But also red silk in greater 1355 01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:21,200 quantity shows up beyond the wall on the body of Melisandre. 1356 01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,960 She's wearing red silk and she shows up later in the episode or 1357 01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:25,920 in the in the book. So there's that. 1358 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:26,760 But that's at the end of the book. 1359 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,920 In between we have Euron, who was introduced. 1360 01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:31,760 We don't see him, but we hear about him. 1361 01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,080 And one of the things people say about him is, oh, he's been to 1362 01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,640 Asha and back. And that is a serious mark of 1363 01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:40,960 badassery. Like, oh, this guy's done that. 1364 01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,520 OK, then that's significant, especially among the Ironborn, 1365 01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,960 but amongst a lot of people, that's a big deal. 1366 01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,399 We actually have the resolution of Sansa and the black amethyst 1367 01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,600 from Ashai, which of course kills Joffrey. 1368 01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:54,720 Yep. So that's there. 1369 01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,360 That's Hashai playing a little bit of a role there. 1370 01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,600 Indirectly. Of course, there's that Quaithe 1371 01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:01,800 appearance we mentioned, appearing right before Danny 1372 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,520 seizes the Unsullied or claims the Unsullied, And then, as I 1373 01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,560 said, Melisandre to the Wall. So even though it's a larger 1374 01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,960 book, there's less about Ashai. Danny very explicitly becomes 1375 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,160 embroiled in Slavers Bay, right? So yeah, she intends to go to 1376 01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,200 Westeros afterwards, though, as Quaith tells her, many people 1377 01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,760 are coming to her. And even though Quaith says 1378 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,480 don't trust any of them, well, some of them know things about 1379 01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:24,720 Dragons that might be something Danny can make use of. 1380 01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,120 Even if he doesn't. She just shouldn't trust their 1381 01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:29,880 goals or their ambitions. She might trust their knowledge 1382 01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,560 about Dragons or about other related topics of Tyrion in 1383 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,120 particular. Like Tyrion tells her something 1384 01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:36,960 about Dragons. I would trust that if Tyrion's 1385 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:41,400 like wants to get Casterly Rock or, you know, wants you to kill 1386 01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,840 the Lannisters, well, maybe think twice about that, although 1387 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,120 maybe that's still the right play for her. 1388 01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:50,120 But you know, consider Tyrion's his own side of this. 1389 01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,680 So what what she doesn't mention, though, is Marwin. 1390 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,800 Quaithe doesn't mention Marwin in in that in her prophecy. 1391 01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,320 So that's interesting. That's the one person among 1392 01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:03,200 among all those mentioned that's actually been to Ashai. 1393 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,920 Now Makoro maybe has, I don't know. 1394 01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,520 So but setting him aside because we don't know for sure that he 1395 01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:12,240 has Marwin's definitely been to Ash Eye and Quaith doesn't 1396 01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,560 mention him. So all the people she mentions 1397 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,560 that are coming to Danny, she says don't trust any of them. 1398 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,640 She leaves him out. Is it because she can trust him? 1399 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,440 Is it because she has been to Ash Eye and Quaith actually 1400 01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:27,120 knows him? Or is it because she's not aware 1401 01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,840 of it? Or I mean, maybe he just isn't 1402 01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,120 going to get to her ever. Maybe Marwin's going to just his 1403 01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:33,960 ship is going to sink. I really doubt that. 1404 01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,880 That seems unlikely that we would be introduced to this 1405 01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,200 character for him to do so. Very little. 1406 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,600 He has revealed almost nothing about anything he knows. 1407 01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:45,800 All he's basically done is sort of wax on about how the maesters 1408 01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,440 have this anti magic conspiracy and how they would have killed 1409 01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:51,240 Eamon if he had said more things about prophecy even though they 1410 01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:55,280 didn't do that to him. Marwin somehow is above that for 1411 01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:57,000 some reason even though everybody talks about how he's 1412 01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,160 associated with magic. Now that I'm doubting him, I'm 1413 01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:00,880 saying though, maybe he's exaggerating. 1414 01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,480 Anyway, it's a very big omission. 1415 01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:06,200 It's really interesting that that he's not included. 1416 01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,160 Why didn't quite mention her? Him, maybe. 1417 01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:11,520 Maybe because George hadn't decided that Marwin is going 1418 01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,080 there. Now, technically Marwin didn't 1419 01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:16,920 get added into the mix for going to Danny until A Feast for 1420 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,040 Crows, but the character Marwin existed since the Game of 1421 01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:21,600 Thrones. Let's not forget that that 1422 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,040 character's name was dropped by Miri Mazdur in book 1. 1423 01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,680 So even though maybe George hadn't figured out exactly what 1424 01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,200 he was doing with Marwin, he absolutely created that 1425 01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,200 character, a maester archmaester, although maybe he 1426 01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,560 wasn't one at the time. Whatever, doesn't matter. 1427 01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,560 He went to Ashi. That's important. 1428 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:42,560 And so there's somebody else that went to Ashi that could get 1429 01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:44,160 in the mix with Danny and tell her things about it. 1430 01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,760 So again, we've got another person that can be Ashi on the 1431 01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:49,360 move rather than her going there. 1432 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,960 So yeah, I really wonder, does Quaithe know Marwin? 1433 01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,160 That'd be interesting. He probably not. 1434 01:12:55,160 --> 01:13:00,240 I mean, Ashi is humongous, so yeah, I don't know. 1435 01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,040 I doubt they just know each other by coincidence, but you 1436 01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:03,400 never know. And of course, we've mentioned 1437 01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,360 Melisando. No reason to recap that in terms 1438 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,960 of her place amongst this group of characters who can teach 1439 01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,280 Danny about things about Ashai. The the difference, of course, 1440 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,560 her being a POV character. But George is still probably 1441 01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:16,960 going to be sparing with her chapters. 1442 01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:18,320 She's probably not going to have a lot of them. 1443 01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,120 The Feast for Crows Ash I recap, right? 1444 01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,960 There's only three bullet points on this one here in in my notes. 1445 01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:29,440 Dragons in the Shy, Dragons in Karth, Dragons in Marine 1446 01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,760 Dothraki Dragons, Dragons freeing slaves. 1447 01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:33,520 Each telling differs from the last. 1448 01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:35,680 That's from the prologue. That quote. 1449 01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,240 All those are sensible. Dragons in Karth. 1450 01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:40,280 Yeah. Danny was in Karth. 1451 01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,840 Dragons and Marine. Danny's in Marine Dothraki 1452 01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:43,480 Dragons. OK. 1453 01:13:43,480 --> 01:13:45,640 Danny's on the Dothraki Sea with Drogon. 1454 01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,560 That makes sense too. Dragons freeing slaves. 1455 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,760 Yeah, obviously. Dragons in Ashy, though, is the 1456 01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:53,880 first line of that sentence. That one hasn't happened. 1457 01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,040 So it's it's a little unusual. It's a it's a line of note or a 1458 01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:59,760 a phrase of note. I'm like Dragons in Eshi or 1459 01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,160 where did that come from? Danny hasn't gone there. 1460 01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:03,800 She's given no hint she was going to go there. 1461 01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:04,960 She didn't talk about going there. 1462 01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:06,480 She didn't. What is this? 1463 01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,960 Does I forgot which character saying this. 1464 01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,360 Is it Rune or Molinder or whatever in the in the prologue? 1465 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,160 I don't think it's Sorella. I mean Alaris. 1466 01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:16,240 Alaris. Yeah. 1467 01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:19,760 It doesn't matter which one of them saying it. 1468 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:23,800 The point is, where did that particular part of the rumor 1469 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,200 come from? How did Ashai get in the mix 1470 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,360 here? I think it's George's is being 1471 01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,200 deliberate there to to keep it in the mix and to remind people 1472 01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:31,960 that there's a big association there. 1473 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:35,840 Speaking of reminding people, a feast for Cross has the King's 1474 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,800 moot. And when he's pitching himself, 1475 01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:42,280 you know, selling himself to the Iron Born, he's like only one 1476 01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:46,600 living Iron Born has sailed to Ashai and back. 1477 01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:48,720 That's me. And of course, he also mentions 1478 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,760 Valyria and these other things. So it comes up at the King's 1479 01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:53,960 mood. And this is where I want to take 1480 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,160 a a slight aside to, to consider Ash Eye in the Shadow Lands as 1481 01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:02,960 its place in the world and less as a part of Danny's story, 1482 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,720 which is that all fantasy stories and of course even our 1483 01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:11,560 real world had this in ancient times when people had a concept 1484 01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,080 of the end of the earth or the ends of the earth. 1485 01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,400 Now in Westeros it's it really is just the end of the earth 1486 01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:20,800 because to the West is nothing. Now we know there's got to be 1487 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:25,360 something, but the conception to Westerosi is that there's 1488 01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,400 nothing, right? Only someone like a, a sea Snake 1489 01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,520 who didn't actually really try or and Alessa Farman who 1490 01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:35,440 definitely did extremely rare example, maybe the only rare 1491 01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:38,320 example other than that one Stark Lord who vanished going 1492 01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:42,440 West. So, yeah, so Ash Eye is our one 1493 01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:44,480 example. It's the end of the Earth from 1494 01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:46,120 the perspective of Westeros. Yeah. 1495 01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,280 If you go to ET, it's not it's it's their neighbor. 1496 01:15:49,480 --> 01:15:51,840 And to the Ash eye from their perspective, which we don't 1497 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,760 really have take out the really we don't have that. 1498 01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,080 I'm sure they know what's E, right. 1499 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,360 At least if they have some idea of it, it that the world doesn't 1500 01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,640 just end there. It's not like a flat world with 1501 01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:04,920 everything just drops off. Well, maybe it is. 1502 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,440 I doubt it. There is a horizon in this 1503 01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:11,160 world, so it's certainly round. Maybe it's like round on one 1504 01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:14,520 side and flat on the other. It's like a like a sled upside 1505 01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:15,000 down. I don't know. 1506 01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,520 Anyway, that's part of why Ashai is able to keep coming up 1507 01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:24,000 because anytime you want to mention the farthest point away 1508 01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,920 you can think of, it's Ashai. That's the association there in 1509 01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:29,480 world. And someone's like, well, to the 1510 01:16:29,480 --> 01:16:31,680 ends of the earth. Well, you mention Ashai, you say 1511 01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,560 Ashai, you don't say. The five forts, you don't say 1512 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:37,080 the Gray waste, even though those would be valid things. 1513 01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,760 It's the place that people know about is Ash Eye, because it's a 1514 01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:41,600 port. People actually sail there and 1515 01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,960 go back and forth from it. It's the one in the few places 1516 01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:49,720 over there that has both a really dark and unusual and 1517 01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,400 mysterious reputation, but is also a place that people go kind 1518 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:53,960 of regularly, at least some people do. 1519 01:16:55,080 --> 01:17:00,120 So that keeps it in the vernacular. 1520 01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:01,720 People will talk about it, think about it. 1521 01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,680 Ships come from there. Ships don't come from the Gray 1522 01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,920 Waste, Ships don't come from the Five Forts, Caravans don't come 1523 01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:10,520 from there. They're they're information and 1524 01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:13,160 sites that are way less known to Westerosi because Westerosi 1525 01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:17,200 sailors don't go there and play. People don't come from there to 1526 01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:21,360 go to Westeros either, like the Aishahi do now in the Dance with 1527 01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:23,120 Dragons. It's a little longer than if 1528 01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:24,960 he's for crows, but again, not very much. 1529 01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,640 Tyrion finds some Ashayi wine in the cellar. 1530 01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:29,440 Like, that's pretty minor, right? 1531 01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,880 And the galley that delivered him in the barrel of wine, which 1532 01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,600 was not a, he wasn't in an Ashayi wine barrel. 1533 01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:39,640 But the galley that delivered him, Illyrio says, is on her way 1534 01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:41,720 to Ashayi even now. It will be two years before she 1535 01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,520 returns. So in other words, the point of 1536 01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,120 him saying that was, hey, Tyrion, don't worry about people 1537 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:52,400 saying you're here because the ship that brought you here, 1538 01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,400 those folks are already way the hell on the ocean. 1539 01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:57,200 They're not going to tell anything. 1540 01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,320 And even if they do, it'll be years from now. 1541 01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:02,880 Melisandre's chapter. Now, one thing I notice about 1542 01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:07,920 her is that when she's at the Wall, she's called Melisandre of 1543 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,560 Ashai more often like her. There's the red woman, there's 1544 01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:13,360 just Lady Melis. There's a lot of, she has a lot 1545 01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:15,920 of names, a lot of ways that people refer to her, but the 1546 01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:18,880 name Ashai gets mentioned a little more often. 1547 01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,960 And of course, she drops a really big knowledge bomb in her 1548 01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:25,120 chapter about it. Not just that she's from there 1549 01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,360 or lived there for a while and all that other stuff, but that 1550 01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,640 it's the second most powerful place she's ever been in terms 1551 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:36,200 of actually boosting what she can do with sorcery and illusion 1552 01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,240 and all that. It's the hinge of the world 1553 01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,560 concept. She says the Wall is the 1554 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:43,720 strongest place she's ever been, but Asha is the next. 1555 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,560 So there's that. And of course, in Dance with 1556 01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:49,080 Dragons, there's the two appearances of Quaithe, one in 1557 01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:53,240 the dream early in Slaver's Bay, and then the one at the last 1558 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,520 chapter, which might not be a real vision of Quaithe, might 1559 01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:58,200 might not have actually been Quaithe appearing to her. 1560 01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:01,040 Might have just been her imagining Quaithe like she 1561 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:06,440 imagines Viserys and Drogo and this and Rhaegar and Jorah in 1562 01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:09,040 that same scene. So yeah, Quaithe might fall in 1563 01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,960 that category there still. So a few other examples. 1564 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,000 It continues to be an expression of the known world there. 1565 01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,400 It's it's from Westeros to Ashey is a phrase that gets said 1566 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,520 because those are to a lot of people, the two ends of the 1567 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:20,840 world. We hear things about the traders 1568 01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:25,320 circle and the jade C circle that that involve the final stop 1569 01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,200 basically being Ashey. It's like the the ultimate port. 1570 01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,600 And once you trade it Ashey, it makes sense, George, put a 1571 01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:33,280 little thought into this. It makes sense that you would 1572 01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,520 want to go home, that you would consider that that the the 1573 01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,800 stopping point, the final farthest point you want to go to 1574 01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,520 because it's so wealthy. Yeah. 1575 01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,600 You can trade food for gems and gold at a better rate than 1576 01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,320 anywhere else in the world. It makes sense that once you do 1577 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:50,640 that, you're ready to go home. You just got your biggest, best 1578 01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:53,000 part of your profit on your journey. 1579 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:55,080 Time to go home. Yeah. 1580 01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,120 Use that wealth, turn it in, make it, spend it, you know, 1581 01:19:58,320 --> 01:19:59,400 give it to your family, whatever. 1582 01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:01,480 Now. Yeah. 1583 01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:05,760 So again, they know more about the region than Westeros does. 1584 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,840 And where our perspective is very Westerosi. 1585 01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,000 A good example of this is the Summer Islanders. 1586 01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:14,480 When we again, we talk about Alyssa Farman, we learn and the 1587 01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:17,760 Sun Chaser, we learn that the Summer Islanders very likely 1588 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:20,680 know a lot more about Sothorios than they've told other people, 1589 01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,000 if not other places around the world because they are an 1590 01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,640 experienced and excellent sailing culture. 1591 01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:28,240 So this is what I'm talking about. 1592 01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:30,480 Like they know about some of these regions at the Westerosi 1593 01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:33,600 don't same applies to the shadow lands, the people of Ashi all 1594 01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,400 that they would know a lot more about their part of the world 1595 01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:40,440 that we're not Privy to. So I did say at the beginning of 1596 01:20:40,440 --> 01:20:44,760 the episode, there's only like 1 mention of Wes of, of Ashi in 1597 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:46,680 Duncan Egg. And it's, it's that phrase 1598 01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:50,160 Westeros to Ashi like the the widest world. 1599 01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:53,560 You know, it's an expression of east of the Mississippi, You 1600 01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,160 know, this is the best grits east of the Mississippi, the 1601 01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:57,840 best pizza West of the Mississippi. 1602 01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,760 It's the any the best you'll find from Westeros to Ashi. 1603 01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,400 Yeah, that kind of phrase gets said like a merchant will say 1604 01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,760 it's the finest leather from Westeros to Ashi or something 1605 01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:12,240 like that. Now to egg on the 5th did send a 1606 01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:16,880 mission to Ashi to learn more about Dragons, to learn about 1607 01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:19,320 how to hatch his eggs. He was obviously very concerned 1608 01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,680 with hatching his eggs, and this comes after many of his 1609 01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,240 ancestors also were very concerned with hatching eggs and 1610 01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:28,240 tried a variety of things, none of which worked of course. 1611 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,000 And of course, Aegon the 5th was probably the most intelligent of 1612 01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,000 all these, yet his attempt was by far the most disastrous and 1613 01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:38,240 and horrible. But it's interesting that he 1614 01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:40,120 tried this, and it's interesting to consider. 1615 01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:44,320 Did the things he learned from Aschai mislead him into this 1616 01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:47,760 accident somehow, or did he learn the wrong things? 1617 01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:50,320 Was he misled or did he misinterpret it? 1618 01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:52,240 It passed through multiple hands. 1619 01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,800 He didn't go himself. He didn't travel to Ashi 1620 01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,840 personally. So if information came back to 1621 01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,600 him, well, maybe it wasn't reported accurately. 1622 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:01,800 Who knows? There's a lot of possibilities 1623 01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:03,680 there. It's interesting to consider 1624 01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,960 certainly that the tragedy is related to perhaps some false 1625 01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,880 information he got or misinterpretation that may have 1626 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,600 come directly from Ashi. Now, of course, there's lots of 1627 01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:15,280 world building here that gets mentioned in the World of Ice 1628 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,360 and Fire. That's, that's a big part of how 1629 01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,120 Ashi is dealt with there because it's that kind of book. 1630 01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,800 It's a, it's a history book. It, you know, it's a bit of an 1631 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,240 Atlas in this sense without as many maps. 1632 01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,400 And one of the things we learned that was very new to us is that 1633 01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:30,840 it's so big. It's bigger than what King's 1634 01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,560 Landing Bravos and and Volantis to combined. 1635 01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:37,440 It's enormous, but the population is scant. 1636 01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,320 You could probably, it's probably not even 110th full. 1637 01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,040 I guess it's not even one 100th full. 1638 01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:44,520 We also learned about the lack of children and animals. 1639 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,800 That wasn't known to us. We learned about the Ash River, 1640 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,800 which it has fish that you shouldn't eat because there's 1641 01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,160 something wrong with them. They're mutated, magical. 1642 01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,280 It reminds me of Mantaris sitting right outside the 1643 01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:01,960 disaster zone of the Doom of Valyria, where the people and 1644 01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,520 the animals aren't quite right. This is kind of similar. 1645 01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:09,120 So we have these sort of, maybe not parallel cataclysms, but 1646 01:23:09,480 --> 01:23:12,640 something very supernatural happened to maybe a dragon 1647 01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:17,920 riding dragon, knowledgeable culture that permanently 1648 01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:23,200 affected them, even it destroyed them or reduced them and left a 1649 01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:29,560 permanent impact like a Chernobyl type radiation zone in 1650 01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:32,040 a fantasy setting, whatever that means, some sort of lingering 1651 01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:35,680 magic that continues to harm and affect and mutate and whatever. 1652 01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:39,160 So yeah, there's similarities between Valyria and the Shadow 1653 01:23:39,160 --> 01:23:42,880 Lands, even if it's not necessarily a volcano situation 1654 01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:48,040 in both, it might be. I mean, the Shadow Lands are 1655 01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:51,440 mountainous, so it could have been a volcanic situation there. 1656 01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:54,680 There's just also some magic mixed in, right? 1657 01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:56,560 There's just, it can't only be volcanoes. 1658 01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,800 That just which is pretty much true for the Doom as well. 1659 01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,880 So yeah, Alyssa Fireman and the Sea Snake, those get both get 1660 01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,040 mentioned in Fire and Blood. Those are completely new 1661 01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,760 characters. Well, the Sea Snake isn't new as 1662 01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:11,240 of Fire and Blood, but his journey to ash. 1663 01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:14,000 I was right. That wasn't really mentioned in 1664 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:18,400 the World of Ice and Fire. So we learned that he goes there 1665 01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:20,320 and we'll talk about that a little bit at the end of the 1666 01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,280 episode here. It's one of our final topics and 1667 01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,520 Sam will do with Alyssa Farman and the sun Chaser because those 1668 01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,440 are related. But let's talk about the actual 1669 01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:29,080 shadow lands. So they're basically a 1670 01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:31,520 mountainous peninsula. Say I should have a map up here. 1671 01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,000 Like I said, farthest E you all probably knew that, but it's 1672 01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,240 extremely E We the map just cuts off. 1673 01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:39,440 It's not like there's a body of water there that that separates 1674 01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:40,400 it. No, we just don't know what's 1675 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,680 past it. And I mean, there is a body of 1676 01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:46,040 water near Ashley because it's on a little peninsula there, but 1677 01:24:46,440 --> 01:24:49,120 most of the map is land getting cut off there. 1678 01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:53,280 Other than those little saffron straits that runs between ulfos 1679 01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:58,360 and Essos, the mountains of the Morn dominate the area. 1680 01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:01,800 That's kind of a funny name for because it sounds like the 1681 01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,680 morning. It's MORN not MOURN, not like 1682 01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,160 there's no, it's not like mourning the death of people, 1683 01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,240 but it's funny to call it the mountains of the Morn when the 1684 01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,520 whole region is shadowy. It's like there's no morn here, 1685 01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,680 there's no morning. It's all darkness and shadow. 1686 01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,080 Or is it? Is that is it a nickname? 1687 01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:19,680 We don't even know the nature of the shadow. 1688 01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,520 We'll we'll get to that shortly. Some theories on that. 1689 01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,720 On the other side of the mountains of the Morn is the 1690 01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:29,440 hidden sea and on the South side of the hidden sea is Carcosa and 1691 01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:32,480 on the north side is the city of the winged men. 1692 01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,800 Quite a name. Farther N is Bone town, and now 1693 01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:39,120 the shadow probably doesn't stretch as far as bone Town, but 1694 01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:41,840 it would indirectly impact them. I mean, because you got, you're 1695 01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,520 living next to the shadow and well, you would be dealing with 1696 01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,560 people from it, you'd be aware of it, you'd trade with it 1697 01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:50,960 probably. But Carcosa and City of the 1698 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:52,960 Winged man, are they in the shadow? 1699 01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:59,040 Maybe I, I would guess yes, but I could see that the shadow is 1700 01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:01,000 maybe just limited to the peninsula of Ash Eye where the 1701 01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:02,720 ghost crosses. But I don't know, I feel like 1702 01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:06,480 there's some impact there. It may be an older impact. 1703 01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:08,280 I don't know. But I, I would lean towards yes 1704 01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,080 on that, which might mean the hidden sea is impacted. 1705 01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:15,400 It might have some of the same problems that the Ash River has, 1706 01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:17,920 which is the whole, the water's not safe. 1707 01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:19,720 The fish aren't safe. The creatures aren't. 1708 01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,120 Yeah, just the whole thing is supernaturally off. 1709 01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:26,720 The Ash River does go from the mountains of the morning to the 1710 01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,640 Jade Sea, where I guess the water becomes more normal out in 1711 01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,480 the ocean. There it passes through what's 1712 01:26:33,480 --> 01:26:36,960 called the Veil of Shadows, which is a a narrow pass that's 1713 01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:42,360 so narrow that it's in shadows at all times of day except at 1714 01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:44,840 noon only when the sun is directly above it. 1715 01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:46,680 So these are some very narrow crevices. 1716 01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,480 So this is one reason for the darkness is just that the 1717 01:26:49,480 --> 01:26:54,000 mountains are so smushed together that they don't allow a 1718 01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,960 lot of light to get through. So it may not be that there's 1719 01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:00,080 just this big pall of shadow over everything. 1720 01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:03,240 It's just, there's just lots of mountains that they're pushed 1721 01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:05,560 together a lot and you creates a lot of shadow. 1722 01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:09,120 I prefer it being more supernatural than that, but it's 1723 01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,440 possible this adds to the whole effect of the region. 1724 01:27:11,440 --> 01:27:17,440 And it seems like that there's a place in this veil of shadows, a 1725 01:27:17,480 --> 01:27:19,920 city of the night called Stig Eye. 1726 01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:24,600 It's a corpse city that even shadowbinders fear. 1727 01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:26,520 What? Right. 1728 01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:29,200 We've talked about Stig Eye a little bit, but here's some some 1729 01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:30,920 things that I don't think we mentioned before. 1730 01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,960 Demons and Dragons live in nearby caves, which, again, that 1731 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:38,240 doesn't really add up. What are demons in this world? 1732 01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:40,680 What does that even mean? The one example I could think of 1733 01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:45,560 for something demonic is the voice that Virus refers to in 1734 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,520 the blue flames. But Virus might have made that 1735 01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,120 whole thing up or exaggerated it. 1736 01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:53,160 We didn't see that. You know, It's creepy, that 1737 01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:55,960 story of the voice answering. I mean, that is a good story, 1738 01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:00,840 but part of what makes it good is that it's so convincing that 1739 01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:05,160 some people like Tyrion, don't even really think much if it's 1740 01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:08,800 true, even though Virus is quite the liar, quite the accomplished 1741 01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,880 liar. It's just he just tells it in a 1742 01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,680 way that's so believable and meaningful and he sells it so 1743 01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,240 well anyway. But the more important thing is 1744 01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:19,400 Dragons. OK, again, there's no Dragons 1745 01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:22,480 other than the ones that Danny has just burst, hatched, 1746 01:28:22,480 --> 01:28:27,560 whatever. So I think that's just maybe an 1747 01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:29,880 old story. Dragons used to live in these 1748 01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:35,040 caves and maybe those are the ones that Bran was seeing in his 1749 01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:38,840 vision from a time immemorial or the future of the past. 1750 01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:42,920 Now Stygian of course, is an ancient Greek term meaning 1751 01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:48,600 associated with the river Styx slash goddess Styx, because the 1752 01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:53,560 river is itself a goddess or herself is herself is a is a 1753 01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:58,360 river. Now the closer association, even 1754 01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,920 though that's the real world association is Stygia of Robert 1755 01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,840 E Howard, which is the Nile in his world, because in his world 1756 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:08,840 this is Robert E Howard, creator of Conan, the true father of 1757 01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:10,640 sword and sorcerer. Yes, before Jr. 1758 01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:13,720 Tokian, he's not nearly as famous, but he operated well 1759 01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:17,040 before Tokian. So Tokian made it way more 1760 01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:18,520 famous. He was far more successful, but 1761 01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,200 Robert E Howard got started first. 1762 01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:23,520 Conan the Barbarians to this day, still very popular, has 1763 01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:26,120 been a ton of other authors have written Conan the Barbarian 1764 01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:27,400 stories. George loved them. 1765 01:29:27,480 --> 01:29:29,200 They're quite well written, actually. 1766 01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:30,720 I like them. I'm very fond of them. 1767 01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,960 They're not like high literature or anything, but I think they're 1768 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,400 very strong. And it's fun to see the the the 1769 01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:39,280 father of fantasy at his craft. So. 1770 01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,320 Yeah. So in his world, there was a 1771 01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:47,040 cataclysm that turned the river Styx into the Nile. 1772 01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:48,840 Eventually the world was reshaped. 1773 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:53,960 His ancient Egypt came out of that right? 1774 01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:58,800 So that's his thing now in his Stygia is a theocracy ruled by 1775 01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:02,280 sorcerer kings. These rulers are white people 1776 01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:06,040 who descend from the conquering dynasty, while the general 1777 01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,320 population are brown skinned and and worship the snake God Set, 1778 01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:13,040 which is an Egyptian deity. So that's that's the connection 1779 01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:14,400 there. But the racial makeup is 1780 01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:17,080 presumably borrowed from what happened in the real world. 1781 01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:19,800 During the time of Alexander the Great, the Egyptians were 1782 01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,200 conquered and then when his empire was carved up, it was the 1783 01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:25,360 Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt for generations. 1784 01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:28,400 And they were, you know, olive skinned or white folk from 1785 01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:32,760 Macedonia ruling over the mostly brown skinned Egyptian. 1786 01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:34,440 So that that's where that comes from. 1787 01:30:34,440 --> 01:30:38,400 Almost certainly George loves to borrow from real history, but in 1788 01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,600 this case, he borrowed a little bit of real history, but mostly 1789 01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:45,920 from a guy who used fictional fantasized versions of real 1790 01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:47,520 history. It's like borrowing is like 1791 01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:52,160 multiple levels of meta here. An older author who also 1792 01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:53,640 borrowed from real history to make fantasy. 1793 01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:55,080 Yeah. Anyway, that's pretty cool, I 1794 01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:57,840 think. But also around the Shadow 1795 01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:00,080 Lands, we have a few other features to examine here. 1796 01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,680 There's Othos, which is the unexplored, undetailed continent 1797 01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:05,320 South of Essos. It's very close to ASCII. 1798 01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:07,480 We can assume the ASCII know things about it. 1799 01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:09,480 They've traveled there. Maybe there's missions into the 1800 01:31:09,480 --> 01:31:10,920 jungles. Maybe there's wealth in those 1801 01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,120 jungles like Sothorios. I kind of doubt it's as 1802 01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:15,800 dangerous and nasty as Sothorios because it's just so dangerous 1803 01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:19,080 and nasty in Sothorios. But I don't know, maybe this is 1804 01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:22,000 George RR Martin's world he likes to create, you know, lots 1805 01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:24,800 of dangerous locations. Nice wild. 1806 01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:27,040 Another wild untamed cotton is entirely possible. 1807 01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:33,440 Those saffron straits, that name implies wealth saffron in the 1808 01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:36,080 real world it was like one of the most valuable ancient 1809 01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:39,520 spices. So I think in a setting that's 1810 01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:43,880 got the feel of ancient to it or in a semi proto medieval 1811 01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:48,040 Saffron's probably worth a lot. So it does kind of reflect on 1812 01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:51,160 the the wealth apparent to Ash eye and the wealth that may have 1813 01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,640 a wealth that may have once been much greater. 1814 01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:57,200 They still have the gold and the gems now, but imagine when they 1815 01:31:57,200 --> 01:32:00,280 also had like political power and a Navy and an arm and 1816 01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:06,000 armies, if not Dragons and a a full population and farmland 1817 01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:09,520 which probably existed before the ghost grasped and whatever 1818 01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:14,920 the shadow is probably what wrecked this civilization and 1819 01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,560 may have made it unsustainable. Right. 1820 01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,640 You lose your ability to grow crops. 1821 01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:22,880 That's going to crush an empire pretty quickly. 1822 01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:24,920 The whole empire can't feed itself anymore. 1823 01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:27,440 It's not like they had a lot of other places they could get food 1824 01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:30,520 from either apparently, at least as far as we can tell. 1825 01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:31,440 Where are they going to get it from? 1826 01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:34,680 The again the Gray waste, the the plains of the Jogos? 1827 01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:38,560 Nayi, are they going to overrun the jungles of Ye T and start 1828 01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:39,880 turning that into farmland? I don't know. 1829 01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:42,160 It's not so easy to do, to turn jungles into farmland. 1830 01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:44,280 It's it's a slow process. There's a there is a little 1831 01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:47,840 island called Ulos or Ulos or Ulas I don't know how to say it. 1832 01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:50,680 No one's ever said it. It's only written on the map. 1833 01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:52,840 It's a little island between Essos and Althos. 1834 01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:55,680 There's a ruined city on it. I don't know how we don't know 1835 01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:57,840 how old that is. If it was something that was 1836 01:32:57,840 --> 01:32:59,000 part of the great empire, the Dawn. 1837 01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,600 Maybe it's a trading partner, Vashi in ancient times. 1838 01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:05,280 Fun to imagine it as sort of an an ancient dragonstone. 1839 01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:08,480 Completely theorizing here just pulling that out of nowhere. 1840 01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:14,080 But like if Ash Eye was a great city of dragonlords, this little 1841 01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:17,120 island could have been like a a little hold out a little 1842 01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:20,120 fortress for the the ultra wealthy, ultra rich, or some 1843 01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:21,920 particularly powerful dynasty or family. 1844 01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:26,480 There's also the Manticore Isles, seven islands West of Ash 1845 01:33:26,480 --> 01:33:31,440 Eye that also probably were trading partners or subjects or 1846 01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:37,000 maybe the whole the the roost of pirates that operated back in 1847 01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:42,840 the day when there would have been more piracy because of a 1848 01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:46,440 full civilization operating here and lots of ships going here 1849 01:33:46,440 --> 01:33:48,320 back and forth. So these are all different 1850 01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,160 possibilities that could happen. Let's cast our mind back to the 1851 01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:55,080 misshapen statues and base Dothrak that Jorah says are 1852 01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:58,320 probably from the Shadow Lands. So they would worship some 1853 01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:01,680 misshapen strange gods there. Very Cthulhu esque. 1854 01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:04,840 I guess that's that's what I'm reminded of whenever I think of 1855 01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:09,560 dark, kind of scary gods. I think of that world or that 1856 01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:12,320 setting. But we know caravans come from 1857 01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:15,080 there that like it's kind of weird to think to do this Rocky 1858 01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:18,920 go all the way to Asha to take these gods away. 1859 01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:23,640 That seems a little strange. So I I don't really believe that 1860 01:34:24,440 --> 01:34:26,160 that's too far for the Dithraki to go. 1861 01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:28,040 And the Dithraki aren't like some ancient people that have 1862 01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:30,160 been ranging far and wide for for eons. 1863 01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:34,480 No, the Dithraki are kind of a recent phenomenon in terms of 1864 01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,320 dominating and conquering their area. 1865 01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:41,200 And they were not very powerful in the time of Valyria. 1866 01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:47,520 So I don't really buy that they some Kalasar rode all the way to 1867 01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:51,320 Asha and dragged those statues all the way back through the 1868 01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:53,520 bone mountains. That's I think they probably 1869 01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:55,400 stole them from someone else who stole them. 1870 01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:59,560 Or they were perhaps a relic of an even more ancient time when 1871 01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:01,840 the great empire of the dawn was large enough to have built some 1872 01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:05,120 of these shadows much farther away from the proper city of 1873 01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:07,400 Asha. Maybe they were built even on 1874 01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:09,640 the other side of the bone Mountains and and the Dothraki 1875 01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:12,400 stole them from there. The Dothraki did wreck a lot of 1876 01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:15,320 cities and took a lot of statues, so maybe there were 1877 01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:21,880 gods of the Shadow Lands, statues of them in, say, the 1878 01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:25,120 Kingdom of Sarnor, which is where the majority of the 1879 01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:28,120 Dithraki pillaging and destruction happened. 1880 01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:29,760 So that's that's entirely possible. 1881 01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:32,680 Either way, we know caravans come from the Shadow Lands. 1882 01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:37,680 That's what Danny was confronted with or met in Vaistothrak. 1883 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:40,240 Those were caravans going back and forth all the way from the 1884 01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:43,880 Shadow Lands to Vaistothrak to the Mother of Mountains. 1885 01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:47,360 And that would involve passing through the Bone Mountains and a 1886 01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:50,240 lot of other regions. So that's a lot of stuff. 1887 01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:52,080 They've got very valuable goods there, though. 1888 01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:57,160 They can bring gems and and sell them for, again, cheaper than 1889 01:35:57,160 --> 01:36:00,200 they can get anywhere else in the world probably. 1890 01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:03,200 And these are markets that otherwise wouldn't have access 1891 01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:05,440 to this preponderance of golden gems. 1892 01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:08,480 I mean, who's bringing huge amounts of wealth all the way to 1893 01:36:08,480 --> 01:36:11,160 Vaes Dothrak? Well, these guys are maybe not 1894 01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:16,880 all in one single caravan, but over time you've got good deal 1895 01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:18,960 on sapphires, good deal on rubies, good deal on emeralds, 1896 01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:20,920 just repeatedly. And then it'll add up over time, 1897 01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:22,320 right? And you think about where that 1898 01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:25,000 wealth comes from. It's not coming from Ash Eye, 1899 01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:28,240 the city proper. The mines where these emeralds 1900 01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:30,320 and rubies and diamonds or whatever, they're not coming. 1901 01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:33,520 They're not literally inside the city, even though it's huge 1902 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:35,040 enough. I could believe there's mines 1903 01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:37,240 inside the city 'cause it's so gosh darn huge. 1904 01:36:37,480 --> 01:36:40,680 But most of it most certainly comes from the mountains of the 1905 01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:42,920 Morn. These the wealth that is 1906 01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:46,000 probably controlled by various clans or factions within the 1907 01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,280 Shadow lands, of whom we know very little. 1908 01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:52,920 These masked entities, these groups that we we don't know how 1909 01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:56,400 to define these groups. Are they tribes? 1910 01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,920 Are they clans? Are they towns, villages. 1911 01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:00,480 What do I even have there? We don't know. 1912 01:37:00,480 --> 01:37:04,560 All we know is the Ash Eye, This big, mostly abandoned city. 1913 01:37:05,480 --> 01:37:09,320 Certainly there have to be other smaller things nearby. 1914 01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:12,160 They just aren't on the map. Another trade good from ash eye 1915 01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:15,320 that comes from outside the city is amber, which is kind of neat. 1916 01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:16,960 Amber is kind of rare. It's usually more associated 1917 01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,560 with the north. So I assume there's maybe some 1918 01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:21,360 colder places in the mountains where that comes from. 1919 01:37:22,640 --> 01:37:25,840 Amber doesn't. I don't think amber is is common 1920 01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:29,240 or happens at all in warmer weather, but I'm I could be 1921 01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:30,920 corrected on that. I don't know that one very well. 1922 01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:34,880 So maybe those same caravans that go to Vase Dothrak would 1923 01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:39,480 also go to places like the city of Wingatemen and Carcosa Bone 1924 01:37:39,480 --> 01:37:42,960 town, assuming those places aren't hostile to the shadow 1925 01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:46,240 man, which is also possible. Imagine something more fearful 1926 01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:47,960 than the shadow lands. Like no, we don't go. 1927 01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:51,640 We're the shadow man and everybody's scared of us or 1928 01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:54,280 shuns us. But even we don't go to the Gray 1929 01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:57,840 wastes because the shrikes those are even worse. 1930 01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:00,920 Maybe I don't know that I'm just it's just a possibility. 1931 01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,760 The shrikes do kind sound do sound worse than the shadow man. 1932 01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:06,800 I would guess that the, the, the, the lizard people or 1933 01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:08,920 whatever those things are that live in the Gray waste or worse 1934 01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:10,560 than the shadow men. I mean, they're, they're not 1935 01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:12,720 even human. Probably at least the shadow men 1936 01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:14,760 are probably human or mostly human. 1937 01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:16,760 And what about sources of food, though? 1938 01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:22,280 Are they getting again, the shadow lands most likely is a 1939 01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:25,040 place that is tough to have lots of crops. 1940 01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:27,480 And yeah, the ghost grass is an issue. 1941 01:38:27,480 --> 01:38:30,040 The the sky might be dark. That's bad for crops. 1942 01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:31,600 So food is probably a big problem there. 1943 01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:33,480 There might be there might be cannibalism. 1944 01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:35,800 Maybe they eat the shrikes. They're so hardcore. 1945 01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:37,560 They're like, no, we're not. We're not afraid of the Gray 1946 01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:38,960 waste. Shrikes are food. 1947 01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:41,880 Lizard people. Good eating. 1948 01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:43,680 Yeah. Bone town. 1949 01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:45,840 Any meat left on that bone? Yeah. 1950 01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,800 The shadow man, they're looking far and wide for food. 1951 01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:53,520 But let's let's talk about a little more of the nature of the 1952 01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:56,600 actual shadow. Like, is it just dark there 1953 01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:58,560 again? Is it about the mountains being 1954 01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:01,360 close together? Is it some kind of permanent 1955 01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:04,120 haze? Is it like a Mordor kind of 1956 01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:05,400 place? The Mordor, of course, is Lord 1957 01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:07,360 of the Rings. It's like a volcanic landscape 1958 01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:11,240 that it's this one particular mountain Mount Doom am on a 1959 01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:16,280 Marth is constantly erupting and spewing ash into the sky. 1960 01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:18,360 So it just it's the land where shadows lie. 1961 01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:22,560 It's in, you know, semi permanently encased in in shadow 1962 01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:27,160 because of the volcanic gas that's blocking the sun. 1963 01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,800 Is that what's going on here? Something like that would make 1964 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:35,160 sense. It's obviously well known that 1965 01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:38,000 George is majorly influenced by Tolkien. 1966 01:39:39,480 --> 01:39:42,280 So yeah, it could just be that could explain the shadow could 1967 01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:45,840 be ash blocking the sun, volcanic ash. 1968 01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:48,240 Not a shaya over there. She's not blocking the sun. 1969 01:39:48,440 --> 01:39:50,480 But even if that's the case, there's got to be a supernatural 1970 01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:53,040 element to it. Even if there's a natural 1971 01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,000 element to it, some of its natural, some of it's got to be 1972 01:39:56,000 --> 01:39:57,560 supernatural. Because again, the Ash River 1973 01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:00,760 with its weird fish and the magic and the lack of children, 1974 01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:03,240 something else is going on. Maybe the lack of children and 1975 01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:06,520 animals can be explained by disease or or unhealthy 1976 01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:11,080 conditions, but nothing explains the the river, the Ash River, 1977 01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:13,760 and and the corpse city, whatever that even is. 1978 01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:16,880 I mean there's that's pretty hard to to say. 1979 01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:19,320 All of this is just rumor in the game of telephone. 1980 01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:23,920 Especially when we know for sure that huge amounts of magic are 1981 01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:26,840 practiced inside the city. So it can't all be contained 1982 01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:29,080 within the city. In fact, we know it's not, for 1983 01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:31,640 example, Mary Mazdur. We're going to talk about her 1984 01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:33,800 again in a minute. But just as a preview of that, 1985 01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:40,440 she said she learned her necromancy spell from a blood 1986 01:40:40,440 --> 01:40:44,080 mage from the Shadow Lands, not from Ash Eye, from the Shadow 1987 01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:46,320 Lands. Maybe in Ash Eye is where she 1988 01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:50,280 got the lesson, but the mage was born somewhere out there in the 1989 01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:52,000 mounds of the Morn or by the Ash River. 1990 01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:56,560 And the Ash River kind of reminds me of the the Brimstone. 1991 01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,320 Yeah, that has a bit more of a natural explanation though, just 1992 01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:02,240 lots of sulfur. But still, it's a a place where 1993 01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:05,040 only the locals can survive. If you're not born there, it'd 1994 01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:07,360 be real hard to adapt to it. It has that vibe to it. 1995 01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:12,280 So Mantaris, the Brimstone, lots of maybe familiar and Valyria, 1996 01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:18,920 of course, these are these are all parallels with respect to we 1997 01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:20,920 know more about those things than we know about what the 1998 01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:22,720 nature of the shadow is. But these are these are the best 1999 01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:25,760 comparisons I think we have. So yeah, Danny isn't going 2000 01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:27,240 there. So we seek these metaphorical 2001 01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:30,040 answers, these these for the references in her chapters, or 2002 01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:33,600 at least shadows that aren't the shadow by a shy. 2003 01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:36,000 But we're still interested in it from a world building 2004 01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:39,160 perspective. For the sake of knowing and 2005 01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:43,200 again, for perhaps the sake of other stories, I think that we 2006 01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:48,080 might get a show about the sea snake and well, the Sea Snake 2007 01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:50,320 show would is going to want to go to a shy. 2008 01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:52,120 That's one of the coolest places they could go. 2009 01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:55,240 And that's explicitly written about. 2010 01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:57,800 He did apparently go there. Same maybe with Alyssa farmers. 2011 01:41:57,800 --> 01:41:59,600 There's there's a lot of potential there. 2012 01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,960 What if we get that EET show? Well, Ashai's their neighbor. 2013 01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:07,040 The shadow men are have sent like reavers and pirates into 2014 01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,240 EET. You know, again, this isn't 2015 01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:11,760 necessarily some central authority doing it, but there's 2016 01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:14,680 Raiders, reavers, pirates that live in the shadow Lands and 2017 01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:19,520 they attack more civilized nations like ET, at least in 2018 01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:21,200 current times. Who knows what happened back in 2019 01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:22,840 ancient times. So yeah, what what what 2020 01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:24,720 happened? Was it a magical fallout? 2021 01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:26,400 I think so. I think it was a magical 2022 01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:28,280 fallout. But the question is, was it an 2023 01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:33,760 accident, like a self-inflicted thing, or was it like the Doom 2024 01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:35,880 of Valyria? The the predominant theory, at 2025 01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:39,560 least in my mind, is the one that says the sorcerers of 2026 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:44,560 Valyria that were keeping the force of the volcanoes at Bay 2027 01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:49,440 was undone by assassinations of too many of those sorcerers. 2028 01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:53,560 Perhaps the hands of the faceless men or helped by the 2029 01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:55,240 assassination. They were they were definitely 2030 01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:57,480 killing some of them killing some of each other. 2031 01:42:57,600 --> 01:42:59,960 The different houses of Valyria from what we're told. 2032 01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:02,320 But the faceless men may have tipped the scales to the point 2033 01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:07,040 where it caused the doom. Either way, the doom certainly 2034 01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:09,360 has a supernatural element to it as well. 2035 01:43:10,360 --> 01:43:14,880 So, but if it wasn't self-inflicted, which is we, 2036 01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:19,840 that's a tried and true like trope for some ancient powerful 2037 01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:23,200 civilization is that they wrecked themselves. 2038 01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:27,680 It was an internal struggle or a failure of their own arrogance 2039 01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:30,600 or pride, like like Valyria that caused their own ruin. 2040 01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:33,000 Because it's maybe a little more satisfying or more interesting 2041 01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:36,320 than some enemy did it to them. But that's definitely possible. 2042 01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:40,000 However, I mean, what enemy? Well, who destroyed the Great 2043 01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:41,480 Empire of the Dawn? We're told the Great Empire of 2044 01:43:41,480 --> 01:43:43,400 the Dawn was destroyed by the Long Night. 2045 01:43:43,400 --> 01:43:45,960 That's what wrecked it. So if it's self-inflicted then 2046 01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:48,400 we're we can maybe imagine that. Well the great empire, the Dawn 2047 01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:50,360 also had a role in causing the Long night. 2048 01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:52,760 That would make sense. I imagine that's the 2049 01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:57,440 intersection of the mountains of the morn type imagery, the night 2050 01:43:57,480 --> 01:43:59,880 and the morning and and shadow and light. 2051 01:43:59,880 --> 01:44:01,920 Like all of that is very tied together, right? 2052 01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:03,800 Yeah, you're right. That's that is the dichotomy 2053 01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:05,320 there. It's everything there is 2054 01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:09,200 associated with those two halves, mostly the shadow, but 2055 01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:11,720 also, you know, sometimes the light has is the opposite. 2056 01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:13,560 You know it stands in that in that contrast. 2057 01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:15,560 Got to have the light to have the shadow. 2058 01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:18,640 That's true. Melisandre says the shadows are 2059 01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:22,240 are servants of relore because they don't exist without light. 2060 01:44:22,240 --> 01:44:26,560 It's an interesting argument by both Melisandre and other Red 2061 01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:28,120 priests, and by George RR Martin. 2062 01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:30,640 So yeah, what enemy could have done that to them? 2063 01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:35,840 If it was an enemy ET ET was the supposed successor state that 2064 01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:37,040 followed the Great Empire of the Dawn. 2065 01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:40,480 The Golden Empire of UT picked up after the Long Night. 2066 01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:45,680 But it doesn't make them the cause or the enemy that 2067 01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:49,880 inflicted the shadow upon the the region of Ashai. 2068 01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:53,720 But it does give us there's a lot there. 2069 01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:56,680 There's magic, Dragons, massive wealth. 2070 01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:01,680 It is gives us context for just how powerful ancient Ashai and 2071 01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:03,280 or the Great Empire of the Dawn was. 2072 01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:06,040 If you were trying to design A rich, powerful city. 2073 01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:09,920 It's perfectly placed. It's on that peninsula, so it's 2074 01:45:10,040 --> 01:45:14,960 perfectly situated for trade by the the wealthy sounding saffron 2075 01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:18,240 straits, all the gold and gems that I keep mentioning. 2076 01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:20,600 So they just have everything. They have everything going for 2077 01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:23,920 them. Supernatural power, probably 2078 01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:25,840 military power thanks to the Dragons. 2079 01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:29,120 Probably naval power on top of that, but maybe they didn't even 2080 01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:30,880 need that. But probably that was there too. 2081 01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:35,080 And all the wealth, the trade, just everything until the 2082 01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:41,000 shadow, you know, ruined it. So yeah, because we we're not 2083 01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:46,680 assuming that you built a giant city after the shadow fell on 2084 01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:48,000 that region. That would be weird. 2085 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:49,920 Like, yeah, let's build the biggest city in the world in a 2086 01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:52,640 place that can't grow crops. That doesn't make sense. 2087 01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:55,080 In a place that's permanently shadowed or whatever. 2088 01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:56,560 A place surrounded by ghost crass. 2089 01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:58,240 That's the worst place for a city. 2090 01:45:58,440 --> 01:46:00,840 But if you imagine it without the shadow, it's like the best 2091 01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:04,600 place. Valyria was kind of similar in 2092 01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:08,120 that regard, and it's what makes it, again, a a compelling 2093 01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:09,680 parallel. It had a lot of those same basic 2094 01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:11,800 elements right in the center of the known world. 2095 01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:14,560 It's a peninsula that sticks out, makes it great for trade. 2096 01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:18,920 They've got powerful nations that are not as powerful as them 2097 01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:24,640 in every direction that they can enrich themselves in, and they 2098 01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:26,200 take slaves from every direction. 2099 01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:29,960 And of course, they also have vast wealth to pull out of their 2100 01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:32,000 own mountain ranges that were close by. 2101 01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:36,720 They have the silver and gold mines that we learn the faceless 2102 01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:40,320 men sort of became came to being in, Right. 2103 01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:45,360 So that's that's very similar. And of course, the long standing 2104 01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:49,840 parallel of both these very powerful civilizations likely 2105 01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:52,680 collapsed because of some sort of magical fallout or accident. 2106 01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,440 Yeah. The Doom, the doom came for 2107 01:46:54,440 --> 01:46:57,800 Valyria and the Shadow came for Ash Eye. 2108 01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:01,560 Yeah. The idea could have been yes, if 2109 01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:03,400 we're looking at it from the perspective of whoever this 2110 01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:05,880 enemy was, if it was an enemy you can make you can make sense 2111 01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:08,960 of it like a weapon because it was awfully perfect. 2112 01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:11,800 Maybe the shadow is a self-inflicted wound, but it's 2113 01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:14,280 just so perfect to ruin them without destroying it. 2114 01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:18,440 It's the the region became so food deprived that you can't 2115 01:47:18,440 --> 01:47:20,400 support this powerful civilization anymore. 2116 01:47:20,960 --> 01:47:24,440 Everything was left standing for the most part, it seems, but the 2117 01:47:24,440 --> 01:47:25,640 people just couldn't live there anymore. 2118 01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:28,600 It's a really interesting way to have a civilization fall apart 2119 01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:31,360 or lose its ability to maintain its power, its grip on the 2120 01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:34,920 region, if not the world. It wasn't destroyed entirely 2121 01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:41,080 like Valyria. It was undone by the destruction 2122 01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,120 of the land around it. That's destruction of the land, 2123 01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:45,120 right? The ruining of the region again, 2124 01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:47,520 the supernatural devastation of it. 2125 01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:50,080 Yeah. So maybe the Long Night 2126 01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:52,600 originated there and there's a remnant of it still. 2127 01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:54,600 Maybe the Long Night still lingers in there. 2128 01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:56,720 That could be the the explanation for the shadow. 2129 01:47:56,720 --> 01:48:00,520 Or the shadow was pushed back everywhere except in this one 2130 01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:03,480 spot where it first originated, where it has its most strength, 2131 01:48:03,480 --> 01:48:06,280 where it first started. And you could never be fully 2132 01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:11,760 purged, or at least not with the means available to the people of 2133 01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:14,680 that region. They don't know what to do 2134 01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:16,400 anymore. So much time has passed. 2135 01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:18,520 Yeah. Because again, another, another 2136 01:48:18,520 --> 01:48:23,120 piece of evidence that it's supernatural and is that a 2137 01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:26,200 natural disaster wouldn't linger like this for thousands of 2138 01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:27,640 years. You know, it'd be one thing for 2139 01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:29,720 to to linger for even a decade or two. 2140 01:48:29,720 --> 01:48:31,880 But and then we have ghost crafts. 2141 01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:36,120 What what else is says supernatural than that? 2142 01:48:36,120 --> 01:48:37,760 I mean, it's very blatant, right? 2143 01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:39,800 And it seems to be getting worse. 2144 01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:44,160 The the return of magic, the return of Dragons, which could 2145 01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:46,920 be an association. Here we get this quote, this 2146 01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:49,480 very alliterative quote. Ghost grass grows in the garden 2147 01:48:49,480 --> 01:48:53,040 of Gahan. What does that mean? 2148 01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:55,680 Does that mean it's growing there where it hadn't grown 2149 01:48:55,680 --> 01:48:58,720 before, or it had been dormant and started growing again? 2150 01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:03,360 So ghost grass is power powered by the magical energies of the 2151 01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:05,080 world. And if magical energies are on 2152 01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:07,640 the rise, then ghost grass feeds off that and grows. 2153 01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:11,880 So it's interesting to think that if Dragons coming back to 2154 01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:16,000 the world have restored magic to the world and the ghost grass is 2155 01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,800 growing becomes because of that, then it's Dragons are part of 2156 01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:20,520 the problem. They're they're they're 2157 01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:23,160 indirectly causing ghost grass. That's interesting to consider, 2158 01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:25,680 but we also have no idea what causes ghost grass to grow in 2159 01:49:25,680 --> 01:49:27,560 the 1st place. We just know it's an affliction 2160 01:49:27,560 --> 01:49:30,520 around Ash eye in the shadow lands and we're not entirely 2161 01:49:30,520 --> 01:49:34,960 sure how far it goes. Does it reach up into Carcosa 2162 01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:36,760 and the city of the winged men, for example? 2163 01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:39,040 That's a question we have. If the shadow is in that area, 2164 01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:40,520 then maybe the ghost grass is too. 2165 01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:44,640 Or maybe the other way around, maybe ghost grass has slowly but 2166 01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:50,240 surely crept up to that region. You know, like at the rate of 2167 01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:52,600 the moving of the continents. Or maybe something a little 2168 01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:55,080 faster than that, something very slow. 2169 01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:59,240 Because, you know, if we assume that the shadow is 10,000 years 2170 01:49:59,240 --> 01:50:03,840 old or more and ghost grass has originated around the same time 2171 01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:07,640 or at the same time and it's slowly grown like, like George 2172 01:50:07,640 --> 01:50:09,960 tells Danny, it's doing like one day ghost grass will cover the 2173 01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:12,200 entire world. It seems like we're a very, very 2174 01:50:12,200 --> 01:50:16,520 long time from that unless, of course, it starts growing a lot 2175 01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:19,600 more rapidly. But at its current pace, it's 2176 01:50:19,600 --> 01:50:23,120 growing very, very slowly. And I definitely wonder just how 2177 01:50:23,120 --> 01:50:25,120 far it's permeated into other regions. 2178 01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:26,600 And are there people who've taken note of that? 2179 01:50:26,600 --> 01:50:29,600 They're like, Yep, I've been living in this region for 30 2180 01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:32,760 years and ghost grass was on the other side of that Crick. 2181 01:50:32,760 --> 01:50:34,640 Now it's on this side because that's, you know, that's how the 2182 01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:36,800 shadow Landers talk. They they speak a little bit 2183 01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:40,960 like Southerners from the US. Yeah. 2184 01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:43,280 So there there's a lot of possibilities there. 2185 01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:45,600 It's it's one of these sandboxes. 2186 01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:49,680 The shadow lands are a sandbox of mystery and and magic that we 2187 01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:52,640 don't have a lot of answers on and we may never get more, but I 2188 01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:55,760 think we'll get some more. I don't we certainly won't get a 2189 01:50:55,760 --> 01:50:57,560 lot of firm answers. We're definitely going to be a 2190 01:50:57,560 --> 01:50:59,320 lot of it's going to be left shrouded in mystery, but I 2191 01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:02,000 definitely think we'll get more the people that live there. 2192 01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:04,800 This is something I think is super interesting. 2193 01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:07,080 Yes, we've talked about the people of Ash Eye and the people 2194 01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:08,240 of Shadow Lands and not the same thing. 2195 01:51:08,240 --> 01:51:10,400 It's like saying, well, people in New York State aren't the 2196 01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:11,960 exact same as people who live in New York City. 2197 01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:14,400 There's things they have in common, but like rural and city 2198 01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:16,560 people or urban people, there's differences there. 2199 01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:19,400 And it might be the differences might be larger in a place like 2200 01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:22,000 this where, well, there's the shadow. 2201 01:51:22,000 --> 01:51:23,960 It's it's just the whole ball game is different. 2202 01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:27,560 Now we know that there's no children in Ash Eye, but there's 2203 01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:29,440 got to be children in the shadow Lands, right? 2204 01:51:29,440 --> 01:51:30,200 Like this. They can't. 2205 01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:33,560 There wouldn't be people at all if there's no kids in this 2206 01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:35,280 region, right? It just doesn't. 2207 01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:38,280 That's not sustainable. Like only people move there. 2208 01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:40,880 Why would anyone move there if it's that toxic? 2209 01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:44,040 And what do they, what do the locals think of ghost grass? 2210 01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:45,680 What do they think of the actual shadow? 2211 01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:47,960 Is it a religious thing? Is it a sacred thing? 2212 01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:49,040 Is it something they have to live with? 2213 01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:54,320 Is it like they view it as something they deserve because 2214 01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:57,680 of this I'll the sins of their ancient ancestors? 2215 01:51:58,160 --> 01:52:00,440 Is it is they have a prophecy about the day. 2216 01:52:00,440 --> 01:52:03,080 You know, one day the shadow will fade, the light will 2217 01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:05,640 return. Do they think ghost cross is 2218 01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:07,640 going to consume the whole world one day? 2219 01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:10,960 Is that just a Dithraki thing? Maybe the Dithraki got it from 2220 01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:13,000 these other cultures who are much older than them. 2221 01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:15,840 So yeah, there's got to be towns and villages not on the map, but 2222 01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:19,360 to the scale to the scope. Like what does a Shadowman 2223 01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:21,840 village look like? Is it really tiny? 2224 01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:24,760 Or is it like the wildlings, the free folk where they have they 2225 01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:27,480 live in very small enclaves and there's almost nothing that's 2226 01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:31,560 anywhere remotely the size of a city other than Ash Eye itself. 2227 01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:34,120 It seems unlikely. If there was a great powerful 2228 01:52:34,120 --> 01:52:38,120 empire a city, there would be some other at least ruins that 2229 01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:40,320 people could live in and repurpose at least part of the 2230 01:52:40,320 --> 01:52:41,680 way. It seems unlikely that Ash Eye 2231 01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:43,720 is the given. It's so huge. 2232 01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:46,520 There's no other cities in the region besides that one city on 2233 01:52:46,520 --> 01:52:48,360 Ulos. Seems unlikely, right? 2234 01:52:49,440 --> 01:52:51,280 But I do think that a lot of them probably live in the 2235 01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:54,800 mountains, which those might not be ruin cities. 2236 01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:57,120 That might just be, you know, caves and stuff, whatever you 2237 01:52:57,120 --> 01:52:59,920 can find. Maybe there's lots of mushrooms 2238 01:52:59,920 --> 01:53:03,080 growing in those caves. There's a food supply that might 2239 01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:07,000 be viable in that area. And again, the scarcity of food 2240 01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:10,000 would be a lot of would have to do with a lot of where people 2241 01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:12,920 choose to live in that region. So again, as I said a minute 2242 01:53:12,920 --> 01:53:14,600 ago, there's characters from Ash Eye and character from the 2243 01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,440 Shadow Lands. And here's where we see the 2244 01:53:17,440 --> 01:53:19,560 difference, illustrated in a Danny chapter quote. 2245 01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:22,920 She enjoyed watching all the people too. 2246 01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:27,960 Dark, solemn Ashayi and tall pale Carthine. 2247 01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:31,960 The bright eyed men of Yee Tee and monkey tail hats. 2248 01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:37,240 Warrior maids from Baisabad, Samiriana and Kayakayanaya with 2249 01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:40,760 iron rings in their nipples and rubies in their cheeks. 2250 01:53:41,080 --> 01:53:45,480 Even the dour and frightening shadow men, who covered their 2251 01:53:45,480 --> 01:53:50,640 arms and legs and chests with tattoos and hid their faces 2252 01:53:50,680 --> 01:53:53,280 behind masks. So we don't know any regular 2253 01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:55,920 shadow men, really. We've seen them like these ones. 2254 01:53:56,560 --> 01:53:59,880 Quaithe is one, but I wouldn't call her regular. 2255 01:54:00,160 --> 01:54:03,320 And again, Mary Mazdor's teacher also wouldn't call that person 2256 01:54:03,320 --> 01:54:05,480 regular. Don't know if that was a we 2257 01:54:05,480 --> 01:54:06,920 don't know the gender of that teacher. 2258 01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:09,200 Presumably they wore a mask though. 2259 01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:11,480 So the masks are a big deal here. 2260 01:54:11,640 --> 01:54:17,080 We've seen masks elsewhere, like with the Brazen Beasts, and the 2261 01:54:17,080 --> 01:54:21,880 impact is similar in that it creates some anonymity and some 2262 01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:27,800 separation between individuals and groups, but those are all 2263 01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:29,200 guardsmen. In the case of the Brazen 2264 01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:31,360 Beasts, they're not like they're not the entire culture. 2265 01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:33,880 This is like this one that permeates all levels of society, 2266 01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:36,720 which is very different. And I really wonder about that. 2267 01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:39,560 Got some interesting thoughts here on that. 2268 01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:40,600 At least I think they're interesting. 2269 01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:44,440 Red lacquer seems to be the common variety of masks. 2270 01:54:44,440 --> 01:54:46,720 That is one, the one that Quaithe wears, and she's not 2271 01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:49,800 nearly the only one. And that creates even more 2272 01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:52,080 anonymity. The more people wear a similar 2273 01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:56,680 red lacquer mask, the more uniform it is, the harder it is 2274 01:54:56,680 --> 01:55:00,640 to tell people apart. And yeah, you can think of masks 2275 01:55:00,640 --> 01:55:04,880 you can think of like shapes and sizes and varieties, like 2276 01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:08,840 endless versions, like masking. There's it's it's really truly 2277 01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:10,960 infinite, the options there. But if everyone's wearing a 2278 01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:14,320 similar like featureless red lacquer mask, which is what 2279 01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:16,400 we're told, then that would add to the anonymity. 2280 01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:19,960 Surely they're not 100% uniform. There isn't some singular mask 2281 01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:23,240 factory that churns out red leather masks for all the 2282 01:55:23,240 --> 01:55:27,600 citizens of Ash Eye and the Shadow Lands, but it's very 2283 01:55:27,600 --> 01:55:33,280 common and it that speaks to it being a very important cultural 2284 01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:36,080 thing because it's also lingered for so long. 2285 01:55:36,120 --> 01:55:41,280 One of my theories, my favorite theory is that some traditions 2286 01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:46,920 say that or they describe the long night as the sun hiding its 2287 01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:50,080 face from the world. So this is maybe a connection. 2288 01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:52,440 The people of the Shadow Lands hiding their faces from the 2289 01:55:52,440 --> 01:55:54,280 world. This is maybe what I was saying 2290 01:55:54,280 --> 01:55:57,280 about like some sort of shame. Like maybe they, they're people, 2291 01:55:57,280 --> 01:55:59,840 they feel like we caused the long night. 2292 01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:01,440 Our ancestors caused the long night. 2293 01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:06,360 This is our this is our shame. We wear these masks because we 2294 01:56:06,360 --> 01:56:09,120 don't dare show our faces to the sun because we're the, the, you 2295 01:56:09,120 --> 01:56:11,760 know, the sun doesn't love us or something like that. 2296 01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:14,280 You know, strange cultural traditions can develop like 2297 01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:15,520 that. That would be fitting for this. 2298 01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:17,920 Just my idea. I don't know that that's really 2299 01:56:17,920 --> 01:56:21,000 it, but something very powerful is. 2300 01:56:21,160 --> 01:56:22,520 And I don't mean supernaturally powerful. 2301 01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:25,280 I mean some very strongly held belief is keeping this masking 2302 01:56:25,280 --> 01:56:27,240 tradition alive for a very long time. 2303 01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:29,440 And you might think, OK, well that's not a big deal. 2304 01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:34,680 Yeah, it is, though, because masks make you untrustworthy. 2305 01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:37,240 If you're in the society that wears masks, you're probably 2306 01:56:37,240 --> 01:56:39,960 cool with it, but look at how the Dothraki reacted to it. 2307 01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:43,760 They weren't though, although they have at other times. 2308 01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:46,200 They weren't reacting to Quaith being a magic user. 2309 01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:49,600 They don't like magic users. Like I said, that is a problem 2310 01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:51,560 for them. But they were like, no, don't 2311 01:56:51,560 --> 01:56:54,640 listen to shadow man, don't listen to the spawn or shadows 2312 01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:56,280 who wear masks. They didn't even say don't 2313 01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:58,720 listen to her prophecy, don't listen to blood magic, don't 2314 01:56:58,720 --> 01:57:01,280 listen to sorcery. They could have, and they had 2315 01:57:01,280 --> 01:57:04,600 done that with Miri Mazdor. But instead of referring to her 2316 01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:07,400 being a magic user, which was the thing that they spat on 2317 01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:11,560 about Miri Mazdor, they were like shadow person, mask wearer. 2318 01:57:12,320 --> 01:57:14,400 They were prejudice against that. 2319 01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:17,320 They thought, yeah, these people, they hide their faces 2320 01:57:17,320 --> 01:57:18,880 from the sun. There's something wrong with 2321 01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:21,160 them. That to them was more 2322 01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:25,600 distrustworthy than sorcery, which the Dothraki have an 2323 01:57:25,600 --> 01:57:30,840 extreme cultural rejection of. They really are against that. 2324 01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:33,960 Meiji as well. So it really is really telling 2325 01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:38,000 that it was the shadow, the face thing, the mask part that got 2326 01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:40,840 them more than the magic and Quaith's example. 2327 01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:44,520 Now, there's no such thing as vampires in in A Song of Ice and 2328 01:57:44,520 --> 01:57:46,640 Fire as the world of ice and Fire that we know of. 2329 01:57:46,840 --> 01:57:50,800 But this is where they would live, The shadow lands, right? 2330 01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:52,840 Isn't it the perfect like, yeah, the sun doesn't shine there. 2331 01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:57,400 This is perfect for us. Let's talk real briefly about 2332 01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:01,560 real world masking tradition and culture because it explains some 2333 01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:04,240 of this point I'm making about the shadow lands and how masking 2334 01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:08,520 is a really big deal because of it causes other cultures to 2335 01:58:08,520 --> 01:58:11,840 distrust and shun and sometimes even within the the same 2336 01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:15,520 culture, it causes that. So to continue to allow 2337 01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:18,440 themselves to present themselves to the rest of the world in a 2338 01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:22,840 manner that causes distrust means they must believe very 2339 01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:26,400 sincerely in it or it's very, very important cultural 2340 01:58:26,400 --> 01:58:28,920 tradition. We've got a couple of images 2341 01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:30,240 here. Shay is putting one on screen. 2342 01:58:30,840 --> 01:58:35,120 Masks are so old in the real world, masks are older than 2343 01:58:35,120 --> 01:58:36,960 writing, which that's probably not surprising. 2344 01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:40,360 Writing isn't that young, but it's pretty old. 2345 01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:43,600 I mean, I mean, it's older than like hieroglyphics and and stuff 2346 01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:45,400 like that. Probably maybe not like cave 2347 01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:50,320 paintings, but it's super old. We have masks that are like 9000 2348 01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:53,760 years old that are still around. Like this this one that's on 2349 01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:56,320 screen, I believe is that old. There's seashell masks that are 2350 01:58:56,320 --> 01:58:59,200 that old. This one on screen was found in 2351 01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:02,680 the Israel, Palestine, Jordan area, the so-called Holy Land 2352 01:59:03,080 --> 01:59:06,240 before it was the Holy Land. This is This predates that. 2353 01:59:06,560 --> 01:59:08,080 This predates any of that stuff one. 2354 01:59:09,040 --> 01:59:13,720 Was from 7000 BCE. Yeah, crazy and and still really 2355 01:59:13,720 --> 01:59:16,600 creepy then and now. I'm one of those people that is 2356 01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:21,280 disturbed by masked figures. Just removing all features is 2357 01:59:21,280 --> 01:59:22,800 the thing that by itself that's creepy. 2358 01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,560 Like when you just have eye like eye holes, that's yeah, that's 2359 01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:27,800 creepy, right. And this is what like the the 2360 01:59:27,800 --> 01:59:30,280 shadowing do that which they add a little color, they add a 2361 01:59:30,280 --> 01:59:32,400 little red lacquer to it. Otherwise other than that, it's 2362 01:59:32,400 --> 01:59:35,360 just this featureless like, yeah, that's scary. 2363 01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:37,840 Like removing the individuality, removing the identity. 2364 01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:39,720 It it looks, it looks wrong. Yeah. 2365 01:59:39,720 --> 01:59:41,680 It's like it takes away the elements that make you human. 2366 01:59:42,120 --> 01:59:45,320 So it's widely believed by anthropologists slash 2367 01:59:45,320 --> 01:59:50,480 archaeologists, both really, that there's far more masks that 2368 01:59:50,520 --> 01:59:53,480 are would have been much older than that, but they were 2369 01:59:53,480 --> 01:59:56,800 probably made of wood and they're not around anymore. 2370 01:59:56,800 --> 02:00:02,080 Wood wouldn't last 9000 years or let alone even, you know, 4 or 2371 02:00:02,080 --> 02:00:04,520 5000 years, I don't even know, but certainly not 9. 2372 02:00:04,560 --> 02:00:07,120 There's some cultures where judges have worn masks to 2373 02:00:07,120 --> 02:00:10,080 protect them from violence to from retribution from the people 2374 02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:12,720 they're judging. Not a very popular thing though 2375 02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:17,480 in in historically speaking, mostly people prefer that. 2376 02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:20,200 The anonymity of judges to not exist. 2377 02:00:20,200 --> 02:00:23,160 You, you want to know who's giving out justice? 2378 02:00:23,160 --> 02:00:25,760 It's too important to yes, you can understand why you would 2379 02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:31,080 want to protect the judges from a a violent constituency in a 2380 02:00:31,080 --> 02:00:32,880 lot of different historical contexts. 2381 02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:35,240 But also you can see the other side of it where it's like, no, 2382 02:00:35,240 --> 02:00:39,800 we got to know who it is that's upholding the law over us. 2383 02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:41,680 Like this is a very important power. 2384 02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:44,160 We can't just have this person that's maybe it's not the same 2385 02:00:44,160 --> 02:00:45,640 person, maybe switching it out on us. 2386 02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:49,640 Yeah, one of the most common associations is funeral masks. 2387 02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:52,080 Funeral masks appear in many cultures. 2388 02:00:52,320 --> 02:00:54,480 I can't even listen. There's just too many, you name 2389 02:00:54,480 --> 02:00:55,640 it. Especially because it's 2390 02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:58,400 something that isn't necessarily part of their culture from all 2391 02:00:58,400 --> 02:00:59,480 time. You might have a culture that 2392 02:00:59,880 --> 02:01:02,920 had a couple 100 years of funeral masks being in vogue, 2393 02:01:02,920 --> 02:01:05,920 and then maybe time passes and they stop doing that. 2394 02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:08,000 And then maybe they come back to it later, like, hey, they have a 2395 02:01:08,000 --> 02:01:10,400 Renaissance. Not the Renaissance, but you 2396 02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:13,440 know, they, you know, culture can be cyclical, you know, like 2397 02:01:13,800 --> 02:01:16,520 certain things are uncool and they get cool again, right? 2398 02:01:17,400 --> 02:01:20,840 Fashion is cyclical. Same masks are a extension of 2399 02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:22,920 fashion. Many, if not most modern 2400 02:01:22,920 --> 02:01:25,400 cultures, though, are hostile to masking, right? 2401 02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:28,880 Especially if it's for COVID, right? 2402 02:01:28,880 --> 02:01:30,080 It's a lot actually. That's not true. 2403 02:01:30,080 --> 02:01:31,400 Really. That was that was mostly an 2404 02:01:31,400 --> 02:01:34,560 American thing, but I digress. I'm not talking about that kind 2405 02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:36,160 of masking. I'm talking about masking as a 2406 02:01:36,160 --> 02:01:39,960 means of changing your identity is hiding your identity or is 2407 02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:43,880 taking on a role as playing a character as a religious ritual. 2408 02:01:44,400 --> 02:01:46,680 It's a threat to authority though, again, just in the same 2409 02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:50,000 reason why people wouldn't want judges wearing masks because it 2410 02:01:50,480 --> 02:01:52,800 you kind of kind of it's more important to know who they are 2411 02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:54,280 than it is to protect their identity. 2412 02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:58,400 The same thing happens here. You don't want thousands or 2413 02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:03,600 hundreds of masked citizens just doing things that you have no 2414 02:02:03,600 --> 02:02:05,880 accountability for because you can't identify them, because 2415 02:02:06,200 --> 02:02:08,560 people walking around in masks, we can't know who the bad guys 2416 02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:09,560 are. We can't know who's committing 2417 02:02:09,560 --> 02:02:11,960 crimes. Matt, you walk into a bank 2418 02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:15,040 wearing a mask, I mean, that's bad. 2419 02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:16,440 They're going to think you're there to rob it. 2420 02:02:16,440 --> 02:02:21,080 You know, I mean, this has been true for thousands of years, not 2421 02:02:21,240 --> 02:02:26,040 robbing banks, but very often masks are associated by people 2422 02:02:26,040 --> 02:02:29,360 of means and power with either rebelling against that authority 2423 02:02:29,960 --> 02:02:34,600 or coming to take that wealth. The Mongol Empire was extremely 2424 02:02:34,600 --> 02:02:36,680 tolerant of all sorts of religions. 2425 02:02:36,680 --> 02:02:39,760 That was one of the reasons they were able to spread so far and 2426 02:02:39,760 --> 02:02:44,480 wide is that they, even though they were extremely violent to 2427 02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:50,760 resistance, they were very tolerant to the day-to-day lives 2428 02:02:50,760 --> 02:02:52,160 of citizens. They basically said, hey, you 2429 02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:56,120 can work whatever God you want as long as you include the 2430 02:02:56,120 --> 02:02:58,600 Mongol Empire. The Khan has to be included in 2431 02:02:58,600 --> 02:03:00,840 your prayers. Otherwise go for it. 2432 02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:03,200 But they were not cool with masks. 2433 02:03:03,200 --> 02:03:06,480 They wiped out a lot of masking traditions that that were in 2434 02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:08,360 various different peoples. They ruled they were they were 2435 02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:13,720 very anti that Islamic doctrine prohibits figural art or humans 2436 02:03:13,720 --> 02:03:16,080 or animals. So you can't have masked, you 2437 02:03:16,280 --> 02:03:18,040 can't have like an animal mask or human mask. 2438 02:03:18,040 --> 02:03:20,160 It's just against Islamic doctrine or maybe some 2439 02:03:20,160 --> 02:03:22,280 exceptions. I'm not an expert, but pretty 2440 02:03:22,280 --> 02:03:24,200 straightforward. Now don't confuse a niqab or a 2441 02:03:24,200 --> 02:03:26,640 burqa with a mask. That's a that's not a cultural 2442 02:03:26,640 --> 02:03:27,800 ritual. That's that's about 2443 02:03:27,800 --> 02:03:28,960 subordination, that's about authority. 2444 02:03:28,960 --> 02:03:33,920 So that's kind of the opposite. That's the that's in like a the 2445 02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:36,280 government mask they they're putting on you to keep you in 2446 02:03:36,280 --> 02:03:37,520 control. It's a different kind of thing. 2447 02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:40,400 So now China, same thing. Masks are seen as counter 2448 02:03:40,400 --> 02:03:42,720 revolutionary in China because they don't fall in line with 2449 02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:44,560 communism. Similar things happened under 2450 02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,960 Stalin, which actually it's kind of funny to think about like you 2451 02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:49,800 would think think of like a uniformity might be exactly what 2452 02:03:49,800 --> 02:03:53,680 communism is all about. But no, it was actually people 2453 02:03:53,680 --> 02:03:56,160 who would stand up to communism didn't want to be identified. 2454 02:03:56,600 --> 02:03:57,680 Right. It's the same thing you want to 2455 02:03:57,680 --> 02:03:59,120 be. I don't want to I want to be 2456 02:03:59,120 --> 02:04:02,480 able to strike against the government and then fade into 2457 02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:05,960 the population. And you can do that in a low 2458 02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:08,560 tech environment with masks where especially when there's 2459 02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:11,160 lots of people that have masks and you've got, you know, 2460 02:04:11,160 --> 02:04:13,400 hundreds, if not thousands of masks, individuals that you're 2461 02:04:13,400 --> 02:04:15,120 trying to keep track of. You can understand why they 2462 02:04:15,120 --> 02:04:17,600 would just ban masks entirely. Say no, no one's allowed to wear 2463 02:04:17,600 --> 02:04:19,200 a mask. Then we don't have this problem 2464 02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:20,600 at all. Well, they might have other 2465 02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:23,240 problems, but not that one. Stalin, same thing. 2466 02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:26,840 Stalin was anti mask. Russia's changed in that regard 2467 02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:28,840 somewhat. But you know, again, these 2468 02:04:28,840 --> 02:04:31,080 things are cyclical. They change the come and go. 2469 02:04:31,080 --> 02:04:35,320 But mostly most authoritarian structures, most governmental 2470 02:04:35,320 --> 02:04:37,280 structures have been hostile to masks. 2471 02:04:37,840 --> 02:04:40,360 Christianity doesn't get along with masking traditions very 2472 02:04:40,360 --> 02:04:43,920 well either. Traditional masquerades plays 2473 02:04:43,920 --> 02:04:50,080 balls when Christianity started to become more aggressive and 2474 02:04:50,080 --> 02:04:54,400 more like telling people how to live their lives, it was these 2475 02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:57,280 masquerades were recast by the church as demonic. 2476 02:04:57,280 --> 02:04:58,960 It was like, oh, this is the work of the devil. 2477 02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:00,600 These masks are devilish. They're demonic. 2478 02:05:00,600 --> 02:05:06,480 They're depicting figures that are blasphemous or stand against 2479 02:05:06,520 --> 02:05:09,440 Christ, things like that called Pagan and it's it's they were 2480 02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:11,840 also done. They were also removed in the 2481 02:05:11,840 --> 02:05:15,520 same way that a lot of Christianity overwrote paganism, 2482 02:05:15,520 --> 02:05:18,480 a lot of various types of paganism by one of the methods 2483 02:05:18,480 --> 02:05:22,120 was well, have a holiday on the same day as an existing Pagan 2484 02:05:22,120 --> 02:05:23,560 holiday. We'll set a holiday on that same 2485 02:05:23,560 --> 02:05:28,600 day sort of to cross it out sort of, you know, like we'll we'll 2486 02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:30,480 have our holiday on the same day and it kind of cancels theirs 2487 02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:31,640 out. More people will celebrate ours 2488 02:05:31,640 --> 02:05:33,400 and eventually people will forget about that other one. 2489 02:05:33,640 --> 02:05:35,120 They did the same thing with masking. 2490 02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:40,040 This fusion started to remove traditions and rituals and make 2491 02:05:40,040 --> 02:05:45,000 them more about just fun and more about drama and art rather 2492 02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:50,440 than sacred rituals, which was what they were more a problem 2493 02:05:50,440 --> 02:05:52,560 for authority, right? They don't care. 2494 02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:56,320 Authority doesn't care as much about drama and plays and art. 2495 02:05:56,320 --> 02:05:58,160 That's when it started to become more accepted. 2496 02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:01,160 Carnival comedia del arte, right? 2497 02:06:01,160 --> 02:06:02,520 That's an example of that fusion. 2498 02:06:02,880 --> 02:06:05,600 Masks there were much simpler. The idea with masks in an 2499 02:06:05,600 --> 02:06:09,240 environment like that is, oh, that's the mask of that 2500 02:06:09,240 --> 02:06:12,720 character of John or Bill or whatever. 2501 02:06:13,080 --> 02:06:15,040 That's how you know, So it doesn't matter what actor it is. 2502 02:06:15,040 --> 02:06:16,440 You go, oh, I know that character. 2503 02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:21,160 It's the beginning of familiar characters in on the stage that 2504 02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:23,600 you don't need to be explained who that is. 2505 02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:24,960 You're like, oh, I recognize that character. 2506 02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:27,080 I've seen that face before. So the mask is meant as an 2507 02:06:27,080 --> 02:06:28,680 identifier. That wasn't as much. 2508 02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:30,160 That's not as much of A threat to authority. 2509 02:06:30,960 --> 02:06:34,400 But another example of both colonialism and Christianity 2510 02:06:35,200 --> 02:06:37,040 pushing aside masking culture is Hawaii. 2511 02:06:37,080 --> 02:06:40,200 Hawaii had a big masking culture, not as much anymore. 2512 02:06:40,840 --> 02:06:43,120 It was really pushed back aggressively. 2513 02:06:43,720 --> 02:06:46,640 There's still a lot of masking traditions in the US, among the 2514 02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:50,640 Hopi, the Zuni, the Navajo, the Apache, and the reason some of 2515 02:06:50,640 --> 02:06:53,520 these still exist. It's very interesting, partly 2516 02:06:53,520 --> 02:06:55,160 because they've carried the traditions, they've serious 2517 02:06:55,160 --> 02:06:57,840 about them, but they have managed to preserve them in one 2518 02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:01,840 way by forbidding any outside photography or filming of them. 2519 02:07:02,200 --> 02:07:04,640 There are no pictures of these masks allowed. 2520 02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:06,640 Maybe some of them exist, but you're not going to find them 2521 02:07:06,640 --> 02:07:07,720 easily on the Internet, that's for sure. 2522 02:07:07,720 --> 02:07:10,040 They're not on Wikipedia, they're not on any articles. 2523 02:07:10,200 --> 02:07:13,560 You can't find them anywhere in public spaces like that because 2524 02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:15,720 they just forbid it. They some of these same masks 2525 02:07:15,720 --> 02:07:18,280 maybe they've used for years or hundreds of years if not more. 2526 02:07:18,640 --> 02:07:21,080 But no one's allowed to film them, the masks or the 2527 02:07:21,080 --> 02:07:23,600 ceremonies. So there you go. 2528 02:07:23,600 --> 02:07:28,280 Keeps it mysterious like ash eye in a way, by keeping it out of 2529 02:07:28,280 --> 02:07:30,200 sight of people who aren't, don't belong. 2530 02:07:31,720 --> 02:07:35,240 There's exceptions, of course, like a thing like Mardi Gras in 2531 02:07:35,240 --> 02:07:37,640 New Orleans. You cannot wear masks in New 2532 02:07:37,640 --> 02:07:39,160 Orleans except during Mardi Gras. 2533 02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:42,200 I mean, you can wear one like to party costume parties, but you, 2534 02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:46,040 there's statutes against it for a lot of reasons. 2535 02:07:46,040 --> 02:07:51,800 Like again, because it's, it's a way for lower classes to use 2536 02:07:51,800 --> 02:07:54,720 violence or intimidation against upper classes. 2537 02:07:55,640 --> 02:07:58,080 And yes, it can go both ways, but This is why they're banned 2538 02:07:58,080 --> 02:08:00,400 because it, it's, it hurts the upper class more than it helps 2539 02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:02,200 them. Here's another example just 2540 02:08:02,200 --> 02:08:04,000 around the world. We, while I was looking at 2541 02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:06,320 various masks and stuff like that, it's still popular in 2542 02:08:06,320 --> 02:08:08,800 Africa, Central Asia and the Melanesian islands, for example. 2543 02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:10,640 There's still a lot of masking that goes on there, a lot of 2544 02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:14,000 masking traditions. Japan still is. 2545 02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:17,160 Buddhism sort of changed it, but didn't eliminate it, just 2546 02:08:17,480 --> 02:08:19,400 altered it. There's one that I think Oshea 2547 02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:22,080 has on screen now or is about to this wall of faces. 2548 02:08:22,160 --> 02:08:24,360 How cool is that? It looks kind of like the 2549 02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:26,960 faceless men. But these are, it just goes to 2550 02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:28,920 show these are each of these ancestors. 2551 02:08:28,920 --> 02:08:30,520 Each of these masks represents an ancestor. 2552 02:08:30,880 --> 02:08:32,760 This this is like these are funeral masks. 2553 02:08:32,760 --> 02:08:37,120 And so they are celebrated and remembered. 2554 02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:38,320 There are ways to remember the dead. 2555 02:08:38,320 --> 02:08:40,880 It looks a little creepy to some people, even to me, but they're. 2556 02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:42,320 Guatemalan. Guatemala. 2557 02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:43,240 That's right. Thank you for that. 2558 02:08:43,240 --> 02:08:46,520 And but to them, of course, to the Guatemalans, I don't think, 2559 02:08:46,520 --> 02:08:48,280 I doubt it looks creepy at all. They grew up with it. 2560 02:08:48,280 --> 02:08:49,840 It's normal. And it's, it's it's looks, it's 2561 02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:52,280 respectful to their ancestry. And it's fitting. 2562 02:08:52,320 --> 02:08:54,040 Yeah. Yeah, see, these are masks that 2563 02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,640 don't creep me out as much, but one, someone isn't wearing it 2564 02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:59,720 right now, so there's that. Just seeing them hung on a wall 2565 02:08:59,720 --> 02:09:02,680 is different to me and seeing someone walking around in them. 2566 02:09:02,920 --> 02:09:04,680 But they all have such personality. 2567 02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:07,360 Like, I can see the person memorialized in each of these 2568 02:09:07,360 --> 02:09:08,880 masks because they're not, you know, they're. 2569 02:09:08,880 --> 02:09:10,800 Trying to look human ish. They're trying to look human, 2570 02:09:10,800 --> 02:09:13,080 they're trying to be distinct. Whereas those other masks, the 2571 02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:16,520 stone mask, the ancient mask was very personality less. 2572 02:09:16,560 --> 02:09:20,080 Unhuman or yeah or it's not like adding either featureless or 2573 02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:22,640 they're adding things like horns and just other things that 2574 02:09:22,640 --> 02:09:25,280 clearly aren't human like. Stalwart teeth or fangs or 2575 02:09:25,280 --> 02:09:27,160 whatever. That's their grandfather. 2576 02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:28,600 I see that. That's their grandfather. 2577 02:09:28,600 --> 02:09:30,720 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's, it's it's a very 2578 02:09:30,720 --> 02:09:32,760 different vibe. So you can see this really goes 2579 02:09:32,760 --> 02:09:37,040 all over the place with the variety of cultural 2580 02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:41,880 understanding, belief, worship, sacred, you know, ancestry, all 2581 02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:45,240 the different elements that are present in some degree or 2582 02:09:45,240 --> 02:09:49,320 another. Particularly true for the 2583 02:09:49,320 --> 02:09:52,880 ritualistic masks and sacred masks are the concepts that we 2584 02:09:52,880 --> 02:09:57,400 see with faceless men. Because in those cases, you are 2585 02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:00,320 channeling the person of in that mask. 2586 02:10:00,320 --> 02:10:02,840 You put on this mask and you're supposed to behave like that 2587 02:10:02,840 --> 02:10:04,280 being. You're supposed to like channel 2588 02:10:04,280 --> 02:10:08,120 that energy or be that thing or that person, which is what 2589 02:10:08,120 --> 02:10:10,280 happens when you wear someone else's skin in A Game of 2590 02:10:10,280 --> 02:10:11,680 Thrones. You wear their faceless men's 2591 02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:14,040 skin. You feel their emotions. 2592 02:10:14,040 --> 02:10:16,640 You already had those flashes of who that person was. 2593 02:10:16,640 --> 02:10:20,120 She felt the emotions and pain and suffering of the person that 2594 02:10:20,360 --> 02:10:24,000 once wore that skin. It was hers, like the person 2595 02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:28,000 that that skin came from. So this is that element is 2596 02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:31,840 captured here in a lot of real world societies and has been for 2597 02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:34,600 since time immemorial is that you put on that mask and you 2598 02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:37,280 become that person or that God or that animal. 2599 02:10:38,040 --> 02:10:40,160 Same for performances. I mean, that's true even if 2600 02:10:40,160 --> 02:10:43,120 you're just putting on I'm, you know, I'm becoming Joe the the 2601 02:10:43,120 --> 02:10:47,480 actor, you know, or Joe the character, whatever my names are 2602 02:10:47,480 --> 02:10:49,560 not very creative here. Joe and John, the actors. 2603 02:10:49,560 --> 02:10:50,640 Yeah. Good job, Aziz. 2604 02:10:50,640 --> 02:10:54,880 So that's how So another element that comes up in fantasy sci-fi 2605 02:10:54,880 --> 02:10:57,320 sometimes, well really it's a fantasy thing, is the idea of a 2606 02:10:57,320 --> 02:10:59,280 cursed mask. Like you put this mask on and 2607 02:10:59,280 --> 02:11:01,760 you acquire that person's personality, but there's some 2608 02:11:01,760 --> 02:11:05,800 evil sorcerer, some evil being that that drives you to do bad 2609 02:11:05,800 --> 02:11:07,960 things. So let's bring this all back to 2610 02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:10,240 Shadow Man again. Even the Dithraki don't trust 2611 02:11:10,240 --> 02:11:15,240 them. So this is a way to maybe make 2612 02:11:15,240 --> 02:11:20,760 the shadow people that they're so masked and so stubborn about 2613 02:11:20,760 --> 02:11:22,800 that it's a such a big part of their culture and they've been 2614 02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:25,440 this way for so long. Is there an ancient untamable, 2615 02:11:26,080 --> 02:11:30,120 resistant to authority? Masks represent the unknown. 2616 02:11:31,000 --> 02:11:35,080 It represents this, this lack of individuality, deities and 2617 02:11:35,080 --> 02:11:37,360 powers that are not associated with the state, let alone 2618 02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:40,040 controlled by it. It's that all that stuff, the 2619 02:11:40,040 --> 02:11:42,200 Reavers and the pirates. So again, it is a little bit 2620 02:11:42,200 --> 02:11:46,520 like the Free folk of the Far East where just their all their 2621 02:11:46,520 --> 02:11:51,240 values, the way they live, the the environment that they live 2622 02:11:51,240 --> 02:11:55,680 in, the actual shadow, all these things seek or combine to make 2623 02:11:55,680 --> 02:12:00,920 them a very difficult people. A a people that's unlikely to 2624 02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:04,840 self organize into large civilization, unlikely to, you 2625 02:12:05,120 --> 02:12:06,920 know, live in cities and things like that. 2626 02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:12,160 These are people that are very tied to the nature of the region 2627 02:12:12,160 --> 02:12:14,760 they live in. And it's a region that is very 2628 02:12:14,760 --> 02:12:19,280 outstanding and if not supernatural, So but but the 2629 02:12:19,280 --> 02:12:20,480 other side of this is interesting. 2630 02:12:20,480 --> 02:12:23,280 You, you we think of the anonymity, the masks and, and 2631 02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:26,280 how we don't have individuality because of that. 2632 02:12:26,280 --> 02:12:28,120 But the outfits have the tattoos. 2633 02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:30,960 They're covered in tattoos, which like, well, that's not 2634 02:12:30,960 --> 02:12:32,640 uniform. I it's hard for me to think that 2635 02:12:32,640 --> 02:12:34,960 the tattoos are, yeah, they're all of the same tattoos that 2636 02:12:35,040 --> 02:12:37,800 that doesn't really, I don't really believe that it's 2637 02:12:37,800 --> 02:12:39,760 possible. Tattoos could look pretty 2638 02:12:39,760 --> 02:12:43,920 similar to an average person and a shadow and a shadow man can 2639 02:12:43,920 --> 02:12:46,440 see all these differences, but they all look the same to any 2640 02:12:46,440 --> 02:12:48,360 normal person. That would be interesting if, 2641 02:12:48,400 --> 02:12:52,200 yeah, if they're done in in intricate ways that people from 2642 02:12:52,200 --> 02:12:54,440 that culture can tell the yeah, I like what you're saying there. 2643 02:12:54,440 --> 02:12:55,280 That's a good call. Yeah. 2644 02:12:55,280 --> 02:12:57,200 Like, they that would fit. That works for me. 2645 02:12:57,200 --> 02:12:59,920 They they they they're able to tell the differences more easily 2646 02:12:59,920 --> 02:13:01,720 than outsiders would. Was like, was that the guy with 2647 02:13:01,720 --> 02:13:02,960 the. That's the same like these 2648 02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:03,560 tattoos. Yeah. 2649 02:13:03,800 --> 02:13:06,960 To be fair, when you see some tribal tattoos I'm I'm in the 2650 02:13:06,960 --> 02:13:10,840 same boat that I I couldn't exactly tell the difference 2651 02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:13,040 between like certain swirly tattoos. 2652 02:13:13,160 --> 02:13:14,920 You're total. I mean, think about the the 2653 02:13:14,920 --> 02:13:20,400 running humor that exists with people getting random Asian 2654 02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:23,160 characters as tattoos. Like there's a lot of examples 2655 02:13:23,160 --> 02:13:25,880 of people that have gotten Asian characters that don't that mean 2656 02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:28,480 gibberish. It's like you see like A to 2657 02:13:28,480 --> 02:13:30,720 another to a person who doesn't speak that language at all. 2658 02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:33,080 That looks cool, just like some Asian characters. 2659 02:13:33,080 --> 02:13:36,480 That looks neat, you know, but it actually says like Snowman or 2660 02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:38,440 you know. And it says it poorly, too. 2661 02:13:38,440 --> 02:13:41,000 Like it looks like it's in Comic Sans, you know, like taboo. 2662 02:13:41,000 --> 02:13:45,960 Like I've seen like not only the meaning but often just the tone 2663 02:13:45,960 --> 02:13:49,320 of the lettering is so off. Do you realize your tattoo says 2664 02:13:49,320 --> 02:13:51,840 hog face? I thought it said, you know, 2665 02:13:52,240 --> 02:13:54,360 high intelligence, like, Nah, sorry. 2666 02:13:54,360 --> 02:13:56,880 Yeah. So, yeah, it could be a thing 2667 02:13:56,880 --> 02:14:02,560 like that where they it means a lot more to them than to 2668 02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:05,040 outsiders, and it helps them identify each other in ways that 2669 02:14:05,040 --> 02:14:07,040 is not so clear to outsiders. That's pretty cool. 2670 02:14:07,040 --> 02:14:09,320 I love that idea. Now, I think they should also be 2671 02:14:09,320 --> 02:14:11,920 compared to the Dornish because, yeah, the Free Folk, there's 2672 02:14:11,920 --> 02:14:15,000 some strong comparisons there. But the Dornish as well, because 2673 02:14:15,000 --> 02:14:18,600 of the mountains and the the temperature, the climate is in 2674 02:14:18,600 --> 02:14:21,640 line with Sithorios, so it's probably hot. 2675 02:14:21,640 --> 02:14:23,680 I mean, maybe high up in those mountains, it's probably cold. 2676 02:14:23,680 --> 02:14:25,120 I'm not. Maybe, almost certainly is. 2677 02:14:25,600 --> 02:14:27,680 So there's still some cold weather people probably in the 2678 02:14:27,680 --> 02:14:29,440 region. But I think if you're living in 2679 02:14:29,720 --> 02:14:32,160 the lower mountains and hills and ground level and around the 2680 02:14:32,160 --> 02:14:35,360 Ash River and outside, just generally near the outside of 2681 02:14:35,360 --> 02:14:39,120 Ash Eye, it's probably hot. Probably a warm if not hot 2682 02:14:39,120 --> 02:14:40,560 region. Hot as hell. 2683 02:14:40,720 --> 02:14:43,320 Hot as hell. It should be said as well that 2684 02:14:43,320 --> 02:14:46,360 they are perhaps a more sorcery oriented people as well. 2685 02:14:46,360 --> 02:14:48,440 That's because sorcery is so old in that place. 2686 02:14:48,440 --> 02:14:51,360 It's been there for so long and there's so many magic users in 2687 02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:54,040 Ash Eye, you'd think that this it's a little more knowledge 2688 02:14:54,040 --> 02:14:56,760 floating around, like a few more people that know how to do it, 2689 02:14:56,760 --> 02:14:59,040 even if just on a smaller scale. Like I'm not saying there's like 2690 02:14:59,960 --> 02:15:02,240 people like calling down thunderbolts left and right, but 2691 02:15:02,480 --> 02:15:07,960 more people who have minor scrying or little things of 2692 02:15:07,960 --> 02:15:12,800 magic that the the parallels of which don't exist in Westeros. 2693 02:15:13,960 --> 02:15:17,240 Not that it's easy to learn how to do it, just that maybe it's a 2694 02:15:17,240 --> 02:15:19,480 little easier to find teachers and people who who know how to 2695 02:15:19,480 --> 02:15:20,720 do it. That doesn't mean you can master 2696 02:15:20,720 --> 02:15:23,200 it, but you there's be more opportunities for that. 2697 02:15:23,520 --> 02:15:27,000 For for example, I referred to this earlier Mary Mary Mazdoor. 2698 02:15:27,120 --> 02:15:30,640 Here's what she says quote. I learned the way in a shy and 2699 02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:35,480 paid deer for the lesson. My teacher was a blood mage from 2700 02:15:35,480 --> 02:15:38,680 the shadow lands. Paid deer for the lesson. 2701 02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:41,600 So she gave deer. She traded several deer. 2702 02:15:41,600 --> 02:15:42,280 How many? How much? 2703 02:15:42,280 --> 02:15:43,280 Venison. I'm kidding. 2704 02:15:43,320 --> 02:15:47,080 She paid dearly for the lesson. Yeah, What is George RR Martin 2705 02:15:47,080 --> 02:15:48,720 does like? Consequences for magic. 2706 02:15:48,720 --> 02:15:51,000 That's a big part of his work. He loves the mystery and the 2707 02:15:51,000 --> 02:15:54,640 consequences for using magic. Touching on these unseen forces 2708 02:15:54,960 --> 02:15:57,800 shouldn't be easy. It should come with a cost. 2709 02:15:57,920 --> 02:16:00,640 Consequences are a cost. It sounds like Mary Mazdor did 2710 02:16:00,640 --> 02:16:02,680 pay dearly for the lesson. I wonder what that means. 2711 02:16:02,920 --> 02:16:06,920 A price like what Stannis paid to Melisandre the the sapping of 2712 02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:08,840 some of his life energy to create shadows. 2713 02:16:09,040 --> 02:16:11,240 And Mary Mazdor did create shadows. 2714 02:16:11,240 --> 02:16:13,840 They were laughing and dancing in the tent as she performed 2715 02:16:13,840 --> 02:16:17,560 that ritual on Khal Drogo. And it might be the same shadows 2716 02:16:17,560 --> 02:16:20,520 that Patchface is talking about. The shadows come to dance, the 2717 02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:21,880 shadows come to play. All that. 2718 02:16:22,320 --> 02:16:25,840 Who knows which shadow is such a vague term that pops up in so 2719 02:16:25,840 --> 02:16:27,360 many places. That's why we spent so much 2720 02:16:27,360 --> 02:16:30,760 talking about it today. So many various types of shadows 2721 02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:33,440 and all that. As we discussed in the 2722 02:16:33,440 --> 02:16:36,520 Melisandre episode, she learned shadow binding in Ash Eye and 2723 02:16:36,840 --> 02:16:40,799 it's only associated there. Remember that other red priests 2724 02:16:40,959 --> 02:16:43,200 don't seem to have the skill. It seems to be very much limited 2725 02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:44,320 to. That's where you learn how to 2726 02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:47,160 shadow bind. Makes sense that the shadow 2727 02:16:47,160 --> 02:16:50,240 lands are where you learn shadow binding. 2728 02:16:50,240 --> 02:16:51,639 They would have that association. 2729 02:16:51,639 --> 02:16:54,120 They'd be the ones who learn to live with it, learn to use it, 2730 02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:57,400 learn to manipulate it, learn to maybe have it work for them 2731 02:16:57,719 --> 02:17:00,160 rather than just kind of ruin their lives and get rid of all 2732 02:17:00,160 --> 02:17:02,680 the food. If people still live there. 2733 02:17:03,000 --> 02:17:04,959 It's it's there's got to be some benefit to it. 2734 02:17:05,160 --> 02:17:08,280 And the story of Lightbringer, the forging of Lightbringer 2735 02:17:08,280 --> 02:17:11,160 involves Nissa Nissa's death. That's a it's very dark. 2736 02:17:11,160 --> 02:17:12,799 It's blood magic. Y right. 2737 02:17:13,440 --> 02:17:16,879 The sword goes into her heart to make this, make it work to forge 2738 02:17:16,879 --> 02:17:19,480 it correctly. Like that's it's pretty dark, 2739 02:17:19,480 --> 02:17:21,959 right. That's that's blood magic. 2740 02:17:21,959 --> 02:17:23,440 You killed someone to make the sword. 2741 02:17:23,440 --> 02:17:25,520 It's it's maybe how Valyrian steel is made too. 2742 02:17:26,040 --> 02:17:31,840 So I do think that with their masks and living in fantasy 2743 02:17:31,840 --> 02:17:36,400 apocalyptic conditions, it's it's kind of like they're the 2744 02:17:36,400 --> 02:17:39,879 equivalent of the nuclear fallout dystopia setting of 2745 02:17:39,879 --> 02:17:43,959 sci-fi, You know, like a, a fallout or Borderlands maybe 2746 02:17:43,959 --> 02:17:48,959 type setting, if not even a, a setting like a vaguely like a 2747 02:17:49,160 --> 02:17:52,719 like a zombie movie film where everything is messed up, but 2748 02:17:52,719 --> 02:17:54,200 people have learned to survive there. 2749 02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:56,480 And it fits as well that a lot of them are pirates and reavers. 2750 02:17:56,480 --> 02:18:00,040 You've got this downtrodden, difficult place to live. 2751 02:18:00,040 --> 02:18:04,400 A maybe a place where it's survival of the fittest and 2752 02:18:05,240 --> 02:18:08,000 that's what people in the survival of the fittest type 2753 02:18:08,400 --> 02:18:11,680 Land's End up doing quite a bit of pirating and reaving and 2754 02:18:12,160 --> 02:18:15,400 raiding and all that. We know that they've been a 2755 02:18:15,400 --> 02:18:19,280 trouble for ET. The Maroon Emperor is one of the 2756 02:18:19,280 --> 02:18:23,920 many dynasties of ET actually moved their court to the place 2757 02:18:23,959 --> 02:18:28,559 called Jinky to better deal with them, to have direct access to 2758 02:18:28,559 --> 02:18:31,719 fighting them at the border to to confront them directly rather 2759 02:18:31,719 --> 02:18:33,480 than allowing their subordinates to deal with it. 2760 02:18:33,480 --> 02:18:37,840 So they took a more aggressive approach, a more forward 2761 02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:40,160 thinking approach about dealing with this, which must have been 2762 02:18:40,160 --> 02:18:42,000 a big problem. It must have been a significant 2763 02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:44,959 problem for them to move their court to, to deal with Raiders 2764 02:18:44,959 --> 02:18:47,280 and reavers. That's these are serious Raiders 2765 02:18:47,280 --> 02:18:51,120 and reavers if you're moving your imperial capital to deal 2766 02:18:51,120 --> 02:18:52,520 with them. Yeah, that's that's that's not a 2767 02:18:52,520 --> 02:18:56,280 small problem. Karl Karsnar comments and says 2768 02:18:56,280 --> 02:18:59,240 Ash Eye is George R Martin's homage to the Gorman Gas gothic 2769 02:18:59,240 --> 02:19:02,080 novel series about a giant never ending city castle ruled by 2770 02:19:02,080 --> 02:19:05,760 undying elites by British author Mervyn Peak. 2771 02:19:05,920 --> 02:19:07,959 Yeah, I've heard of Gorman Gas and I've of course I've heard of 2772 02:19:07,959 --> 02:19:10,200 Mervyn Peak and and Mervyn Peak House Peak. 2773 02:19:10,200 --> 02:19:12,879 That's the the crossover there, the parallel there. 2774 02:19:13,160 --> 02:19:16,959 I should read Gorman Gas. And I do like the giant never 2775 02:19:16,959 --> 02:19:19,360 ending castle slash city. That does sound like Ash Eye. 2776 02:19:19,840 --> 02:19:23,840 Good call. Once again, I want to remind you 2777 02:19:23,840 --> 02:19:26,639 folks that we very much rely on your support. 2778 02:19:26,760 --> 02:19:30,160 Patreon is our lifeblood. It's the thing that keeps the 2779 02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:32,520 show going. Our our ability to attract 2780 02:19:32,520 --> 02:19:36,959 sponsors is intermittent. It happens, but it's yeah, it's 2781 02:19:36,959 --> 02:19:39,600 not consistent. And you guys are the consistent 2782 02:19:39,600 --> 02:19:41,480 thing. You're what enables us to do 2783 02:19:41,480 --> 02:19:43,160 these off the beaten path topics. 2784 02:19:43,520 --> 02:19:47,240 And these days there are more and more things that we can 2785 02:19:47,240 --> 02:19:49,680 provide as bonuses for signing up. 2786 02:19:49,880 --> 02:19:52,320 For one thing, you can get no ads. 2787 02:19:52,320 --> 02:19:54,200 That's very nice. You get to eliminate all the 2788 02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:56,760 network ads in the podcast versions. 2789 02:19:56,760 --> 02:19:59,360 We can't do that for the videos because it's too hard to have 2790 02:19:59,360 --> 02:20:01,320 two different versions of such large files. 2791 02:20:01,680 --> 02:20:03,720 But with podcast episodes, it's quite easy for us. 2792 02:20:04,360 --> 02:20:07,160 We also give bonus episodes. The most recent one is Part 2 of 2793 02:20:07,160 --> 02:20:11,120 our Red Kraken episode. We had a part two of two. 2794 02:20:11,120 --> 02:20:13,960 This one's called the Lioness, the Kraken and the Seahorse, and 2795 02:20:13,960 --> 02:20:16,720 it details the end of the Red Kraken and the struggle against 2796 02:20:16,720 --> 02:20:17,680 him. And it's got some. 2797 02:20:18,160 --> 02:20:21,520 Alan Valerian AKA Oakenfest and some other interesting 2798 02:20:21,520 --> 02:20:25,600 characters AKA or including rather Johanna Westerling, the 2799 02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:30,520 winter widow that she is on Patreon nowadays you can gift 2800 02:20:30,920 --> 02:20:33,080 Subs to people so it's say it's the holiday season. 2801 02:20:33,080 --> 02:20:35,440 You can buy a subscription to History of Westeros for your 2802 02:20:35,440 --> 02:20:37,880 friend. Give them access to our bonus 2803 02:20:37,880 --> 02:20:40,400 content like The Lioness, The Kraken and the Seahorse and Red 2804 02:20:40,400 --> 02:20:42,360 Kraken 2 or Red Kraken 1 and all that. 2805 02:20:42,760 --> 02:20:45,600 All our other bonus episodes ad free and all that. 2806 02:20:45,600 --> 02:20:48,680 Maybe you get them a cool nickname, all that fun stuff. 2807 02:20:49,080 --> 02:20:52,680 You can do that over at patreon.com/history of Westeros. 2808 02:20:53,760 --> 02:20:57,520 A couple more items and that'll be it for today. 2809 02:20:57,880 --> 02:21:01,800 Some random Song of Ice and Fire threads that I want to tie up 2810 02:21:01,800 --> 02:21:04,400 here. As we said, you're on claims to 2811 02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:07,280 have been there and of course, Melisandre spent a lot of time 2812 02:21:07,280 --> 02:21:08,760 there. So there's definitely some 2813 02:21:08,760 --> 02:21:11,800 characters that, you know, have the association that we're 2814 02:21:11,800 --> 02:21:15,040 looking for. Also, as I said, Marwin and Mary 2815 02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:18,360 Mazdor, but Mary Mazdor is dead, so that's that's a dead end with 2816 02:21:18,360 --> 02:21:20,960 her. But the sea snake and possibly 2817 02:21:20,960 --> 02:21:23,880 Alyssa Farman, those are characters that we want to talk 2818 02:21:23,880 --> 02:21:26,400 about too. To be fair, these characters 2819 02:21:26,400 --> 02:21:29,120 probably went to Ash eye proper and not the shadow lands. 2820 02:21:29,120 --> 02:21:32,560 But hey, we just don't have that. 2821 02:21:33,880 --> 02:21:36,440 I again, I don't think we've seen anyone from the shadow 2822 02:21:36,440 --> 02:21:38,800 lands in Lesteros or even the free Cities. 2823 02:21:38,800 --> 02:21:40,960 I think as far as I think the base Death Rack is the closest 2824 02:21:40,960 --> 02:21:44,240 we get. So let's talk about the seas. 2825 02:21:44,400 --> 02:21:48,640 Let's get a little bit of a little bit of fun from him and 2826 02:21:48,640 --> 02:21:53,480 start that off with a quote. On his second voyage, SER Corley 2827 02:21:53,480 --> 02:21:58,160 sailed even farther east and became the first Westerosi ever 2828 02:21:58,160 --> 02:22:02,200 to reach a shy by the shadow, the bleak black city of the 2829 02:22:02,200 --> 02:22:04,600 Shadow Binders at the edge of the world. 2830 02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:10,720 There he lost his love and half his crew, if the tales be true. 2831 02:22:11,160 --> 02:22:16,640 And there as well, in a shy's harbor, he glimpsed an old and 2832 02:22:16,640 --> 02:22:21,000 much weathered ship that he would swear forevermore could 2833 02:22:21,000 --> 02:22:24,680 only have been Sun Chaser. There's a lot in that one. 2834 02:22:25,000 --> 02:22:28,840 His love and half his crew. OK, I have questions. 2835 02:22:28,840 --> 02:22:30,840 His love was on his voyage with him. 2836 02:22:30,840 --> 02:22:34,120 That's interesting. Was this person a sailor? 2837 02:22:34,440 --> 02:22:37,200 Was this someone met along the way or someone who went with 2838 02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:38,920 him? Interesting. 2839 02:22:38,920 --> 02:22:41,360 Very interesting. And what happened to half of his 2840 02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:44,840 crew? Half of them, That's a lot. 2841 02:22:44,920 --> 02:22:49,120 I don't think he had a small crew cuz, you know, he had a big 2842 02:22:49,120 --> 02:22:53,120 ship and a lot of goals. He wanted to get as much loot as 2843 02:22:53,120 --> 02:22:55,680 possible. That's got to involve having 2844 02:22:55,680 --> 02:22:58,360 plenty of help. So half of them died. 2845 02:22:58,360 --> 02:23:02,920 What of what of just drinking the water, eating the fish, 2846 02:23:03,080 --> 02:23:06,160 getting lost as I can't find my way back to the port, The city 2847 02:23:06,160 --> 02:23:09,440 so vast I got lost in it. There's a lot of possibilities. 2848 02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:13,400 But yeah, I don't know. It's, it's really interesting to 2849 02:23:13,400 --> 02:23:14,840 think about this. Some of these would have been 2850 02:23:14,840 --> 02:23:18,280 veterans of his that would have been on his first voyage and all 2851 02:23:18,280 --> 02:23:21,640 through this long second one up until the point where they 2852 02:23:22,320 --> 02:23:24,520 disappeared. So there would have been some 2853 02:23:24,800 --> 02:23:27,040 people he cared about, people he had spent a lot of time with, 2854 02:23:27,040 --> 02:23:29,440 people that had crossed half the world or all the world with him, 2855 02:23:30,120 --> 02:23:31,840 in addition to having been on his previous voyage. 2856 02:23:31,840 --> 02:23:35,600 So that's a big deal. And if we get a Seasnake TV 2857 02:23:35,600 --> 02:23:37,720 show, this is a whole last season right here. 2858 02:23:37,720 --> 02:23:40,520 They could do with that. I mean, that's a that's a full 2859 02:23:40,520 --> 02:23:43,960 season I think, not season 1. No, you can't start with this. 2860 02:23:43,960 --> 02:23:46,520 But if the show gets far enough, assuming it even happens in the 2861 02:23:46,520 --> 02:23:49,760 1st place, well, this would be a big milestone. 2862 02:23:49,760 --> 02:23:52,640 If we, we hope if this show happens, we get at least to this 2863 02:23:52,640 --> 02:23:56,040 point where he goes to Asha. That would be so cool. 2864 02:23:56,040 --> 02:23:59,840 And of course, any showrunner making the show would of course 2865 02:23:59,840 --> 02:24:02,680 see that they would look at all the things and be like, Oh yeah, 2866 02:24:03,160 --> 02:24:06,720 we got to do that. Sadly, because of the 2867 02:24:06,720 --> 02:24:09,320 destruction of his treasures during the Dance of the Dragons, 2868 02:24:09,320 --> 02:24:14,200 he wouldn't have any artifacts that he got in Ash Eye unless 2869 02:24:14,200 --> 02:24:17,520 maybe they were gifted first. He may have gotten some cool Ash 2870 02:24:17,520 --> 02:24:21,840 Eye artifact and given it away to somebody, and that by giving 2871 02:24:21,840 --> 02:24:25,120 it to somebody, it would have avoided the destruction that 2872 02:24:25,120 --> 02:24:29,520 happened to High Tide, right? What about this last bit though? 2873 02:24:29,760 --> 02:24:33,320 He swore that he saw Sun Chaser. That's Alyssa Firemanship, of 2874 02:24:33,320 --> 02:24:35,240 course. Now let's look at the timeline 2875 02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:38,240 real quick. We don't know for certain that 2876 02:24:38,240 --> 02:24:40,520 she made it there, but this makes it sound like she did. 2877 02:24:41,040 --> 02:24:43,920 It's an unmistakable ship, a very unique ship. 2878 02:24:43,920 --> 02:24:47,440 That's why this claim is hard to reject. 2879 02:24:48,000 --> 02:24:52,920 What's his angle if he's lying? I mean, it makes him sound cool, 2880 02:24:54,240 --> 02:24:56,200 but it's not like he profits from it, isn't going to make 2881 02:24:56,200 --> 02:24:58,760 money from this. It doesn't have any obvious 2882 02:24:58,760 --> 02:25:03,640 incentive to lie here other than it sounds cool and him being 2883 02:25:03,640 --> 02:25:07,320 such a skilled mariner, the fact that the ship is so unique he 2884 02:25:07,320 --> 02:25:09,000 would recognize it. That that's the thing. 2885 02:25:09,920 --> 02:25:13,560 Now this would be when he went to Ash Eye. 2886 02:25:13,560 --> 02:25:16,400 We don't know exactly, but it would be in the 80s AC, 2887 02:25:17,360 --> 02:25:21,400 something like 30 years after the sun chaser left Old Town and 2888 02:25:21,400 --> 02:25:25,160 headed West. So it fits like that, works. 2889 02:25:25,160 --> 02:25:26,880 The timeline isn't too stretched there. 2890 02:25:26,880 --> 02:25:30,920 She wouldn't be super ancient. And of course he didn't actually 2891 02:25:30,920 --> 02:25:32,320 see her. He doesn't claim to have seen 2892 02:25:32,320 --> 02:25:33,280 her. He just did the ship. 2893 02:25:34,160 --> 02:25:36,040 You know, you wonder, did he go looking for her? 2894 02:25:36,040 --> 02:25:38,760 Maybe that's where what happened to half the crew or some of 2895 02:25:38,760 --> 02:25:41,800 them, they went looking too. And, and in their misadventures, 2896 02:25:41,800 --> 02:25:46,440 trying to locate what happened to Alyssa Farman, perhaps to 2897 02:25:46,440 --> 02:25:48,280 learn what she'd learned on her voyages. 2898 02:25:48,280 --> 02:25:50,320 That's something Corliss would really want to know about. 2899 02:25:50,320 --> 02:25:54,000 He would want to find her and and, you know, swap stories. 2900 02:25:54,320 --> 02:25:57,680 What like what a meeting of the minds that would be what two 2901 02:25:57,680 --> 02:26:01,120 people in the world would have more interesting things to talk 2902 02:26:01,120 --> 02:26:03,360 about? Very few that that that would be 2903 02:26:03,360 --> 02:26:07,600 an incredible conversation to fly on the wall would be a a VIP 2904 02:26:07,640 --> 02:26:11,000 box seat there for that. And again, if they if they ever 2905 02:26:11,000 --> 02:26:15,000 do ATV show about this, I would guess very strongly that yes, he 2906 02:26:15,000 --> 02:26:19,000 would find her because it's the more exciting result than just 2907 02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:21,560 oh, she's not there. Damn, we found the ship, but not 2908 02:26:21,560 --> 02:26:23,600 her. There's ways to write that that 2909 02:26:23,600 --> 02:26:25,360 would be more interesting. I'm just guessing they would. 2910 02:26:25,440 --> 02:26:28,920 It's probably easier to to say, yes, they found an old Alyssa 2911 02:26:28,920 --> 02:26:30,840 Farman. She's retired there for whatever 2912 02:26:30,840 --> 02:26:32,360 reason. They invent a story about that. 2913 02:26:32,360 --> 02:26:35,480 He doesn't want to go back. Maybe they can make a version of 2914 02:26:35,480 --> 02:26:37,600 it where she's gone and that's more interesting somehow. 2915 02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:41,040 And they find her writings, they find her journals, they find a 2916 02:26:41,040 --> 02:26:45,360 daughter or son of hers that would kind of get past the whole 2917 02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:46,840 child thing. But this could be an adult, 2918 02:26:46,960 --> 02:26:48,800 someone that's, you know, grown up by now. 2919 02:26:49,120 --> 02:26:50,960 Again, a lot of times past 30 years. 2920 02:26:51,520 --> 02:26:55,080 So, yeah, I mean, it would be hard to find her, but that could 2921 02:26:55,080 --> 02:26:58,920 be part of the adventure. That could be part of what 2922 02:26:59,000 --> 02:27:01,520 causes this to be a whole season's worth of material. 2923 02:27:02,600 --> 02:27:07,040 Exploring Ash I with a purpose trying to find this Westerosi 2924 02:27:07,040 --> 02:27:08,920 person. And did they did she find a 2925 02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:11,640 passage through the West? I mean, that's huge. 2926 02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:18,160 If Corlee's could find that out. Now, we he probably didn't find 2927 02:27:18,160 --> 02:27:21,680 that in book cannon because if he had learned about the 2928 02:27:21,680 --> 02:27:24,040 possibility of going West and confirm that you could do that, 2929 02:27:24,040 --> 02:27:25,320 he would have tried to do it himself. 2930 02:27:26,400 --> 02:27:28,360 This was his second voyage going to Ash Eye. 2931 02:27:28,360 --> 02:27:33,240 And remember, he did 9 voyages. That's one of the names that was 2932 02:27:33,240 --> 02:27:34,640 being kicked around for the name of that show. 2933 02:27:35,080 --> 02:27:37,600 So anyway, very possible. Very possible. 2934 02:27:39,000 --> 02:27:41,920 OK, so that's the Sea Snake and Alyssa Farman. 2935 02:27:41,920 --> 02:27:43,440 And that is basically our episode. 2936 02:27:43,440 --> 02:27:45,840 We talked about Melisandre, we talked about Marwin. 2937 02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:47,120 We hope there's more from Quaithe. 2938 02:27:47,120 --> 02:27:49,920 We hope that these characters give us more on Ash Eye, the 2939 02:27:49,920 --> 02:27:52,080 shadow Lands. Safe to say there is more to 2940 02:27:52,080 --> 02:27:55,640 come in that regard. Maybe not a lot, but definitely 2941 02:27:55,640 --> 02:27:58,320 more. And that's without the possible 2942 02:27:58,520 --> 02:28:00,560 and that's without the possibility of TV shows, which, 2943 02:28:01,200 --> 02:28:04,040 yeah, I mean, those would be new inventions that might not be 2944 02:28:04,040 --> 02:28:05,120 from George. They might. 2945 02:28:05,360 --> 02:28:06,800 Some of it might come from George, but who knows? 2946 02:28:06,800 --> 02:28:08,680 Who knows when their shows will even get made, if they even get 2947 02:28:08,680 --> 02:28:10,600 made. But it is a possible, major 2948 02:28:10,600 --> 02:28:14,640 possibility for the expansion of this corner of the world, these 2949 02:28:14,640 --> 02:28:17,440 threads, these stories, these with and again, potential for 2950 02:28:17,440 --> 02:28:19,920 news stories. Carl, Carl Snark says Odysseus 2951 02:28:20,440 --> 02:28:21,800 loses almost all of his men as well. 2952 02:28:21,800 --> 02:28:23,120 He told them not to touch those cows. 2953 02:28:23,120 --> 02:28:25,560 Hey, good point. Yeah, it is sort of an Odyssey 2954 02:28:25,560 --> 02:28:28,840 situation for him, except that he's, you know, venturing out on 2955 02:28:28,840 --> 02:28:30,360 purpose. He didn't really struggle to get 2956 02:28:30,360 --> 02:28:31,560 home. But, hey, that's a good 2957 02:28:31,560 --> 02:28:32,880 connection, a good parallel like that. 2958 02:28:34,040 --> 02:28:36,520 Even the weirwoods are kind of wooden masks in a sense. 2959 02:28:36,560 --> 02:28:38,440 Yeah, that's true. They are faces because people 2960 02:28:38,440 --> 02:28:40,920 look, because the children and the green seers see through 2961 02:28:40,920 --> 02:28:41,880 them. They. 2962 02:28:41,880 --> 02:28:45,800 They really have that mask vibe because people can look through 2963 02:28:45,800 --> 02:28:47,280 those eyes. Very good call. 2964 02:28:49,280 --> 02:28:52,000 The trivia question I asked at the beginning of the episode was 2965 02:28:52,000 --> 02:28:54,040 which notable character on their way to meet Daenerys is 2966 02:28:54,040 --> 02:28:56,200 seemingly not mentioned in Quaithe's prophecy. 2967 02:28:56,320 --> 02:29:00,320 As always, the answer is in the episode, and the answer is 2968 02:29:00,320 --> 02:29:02,680 Marwin the mage. Again, very interesting. 2969 02:29:02,680 --> 02:29:05,040 Quaithe didn't mention him. He's on the way to Danny. 2970 02:29:05,400 --> 02:29:08,720 What does that mean? Good job to Chatty Lumpkin. 2971 02:29:08,720 --> 02:29:10,680 Who guessed it? Good job, Chatty Lumpkin. 2972 02:29:12,400 --> 02:29:16,480 Our next episode is the final installment of this year's 2973 02:29:16,480 --> 02:29:20,000 Topics Moot. This was number 11 Nymeria Part 2974 02:29:20,000 --> 02:29:22,840 3 Nymeria in Dorne. We've covered Nymeria on her 2975 02:29:22,840 --> 02:29:26,320 odyssey in the 10,000 ships episode, which was Part 2 and in 2976 02:29:26,320 --> 02:29:30,040 Part 1 called mother Royne, which details the initial exit 2977 02:29:30,040 --> 02:29:35,040 from the Royne, the the refugee people and fleeing to Sothorios 2978 02:29:35,040 --> 02:29:38,760 and and all that which the details of that, like I said, 2979 02:29:38,760 --> 02:29:40,080 are in Part 2. So this is a good time to re 2980 02:29:40,080 --> 02:29:42,360 listen to those two. You can find them in our feed or 2981 02:29:42,360 --> 02:29:45,040 on our YouTube channel. And because part three of her 2982 02:29:45,040 --> 02:29:49,400 conquest of Dorne alongside more is Martel putting sending 6 2983 02:29:49,400 --> 02:29:52,880 kings in chains to the wall, Golden fetters, not just regular 2984 02:29:52,880 --> 02:29:56,280 chains because they're kings. And a lot of fun stuff there. 2985 02:29:56,280 --> 02:29:58,680 It's a great story. Nymeria's very interesting 2986 02:29:58,680 --> 02:30:01,800 character. So hope you join us for that. 2987 02:30:01,800 --> 02:30:05,080 That'll be a scripted episode and we do those occasionally. 2988 02:30:05,080 --> 02:30:09,120 Still in this episode, we mentioned many other episodes 2989 02:30:09,120 --> 02:30:11,200 that you could check out. You might be interested in 2990 02:30:11,320 --> 02:30:14,320 staying immersed in the world of George RR Martin. 2991 02:30:14,480 --> 02:30:16,360 If so, I recommend our Melisandre episode. 2992 02:30:16,360 --> 02:30:19,760 That's the most recent of these, the Blood Magic episode. 2993 02:30:20,240 --> 02:30:22,680 The Ash Eye by the Shadow episode is a kind of an obvious 2994 02:30:22,680 --> 02:30:25,000 one that you could look into. Even though it's a bit old, it 2995 02:30:25,000 --> 02:30:27,400 still holds up today. There's not much we would change 2996 02:30:27,400 --> 02:30:30,000 about it, if anything. The Great Empire, the Dawn 2997 02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:31,560 episode, a companion to that one. 2998 02:30:31,920 --> 02:30:35,760 Very, very deep dive into the possibilities of that ancient 2999 02:30:36,040 --> 02:30:38,920 civilization such that we know. The Sun Chaser episode, of 3000 02:30:38,920 --> 02:30:41,280 course, I mentioned when we talked about the Sun Chaser just 3001 02:30:41,280 --> 02:30:43,320 now and the Sea Snake episode. Both of them have their own 3002 02:30:43,320 --> 02:30:47,040 episodes and if you want to know more about those journeys, well, 3003 02:30:47,040 --> 02:30:51,160 we get into everything we know about them in those episodes as 3004 02:30:51,160 --> 02:30:53,760 well as our Valerie Ritas Danny chapters. 3005 02:30:54,840 --> 02:30:59,920 You can get only the Danny chapters of our Valerie Ritas if 3006 02:30:59,920 --> 02:31:02,240 you join us on Patreon. That's one of the perks is you 3007 02:31:02,240 --> 02:31:07,400 get the individual POV's all in one place rather than having to 3008 02:31:07,400 --> 02:31:10,440 listen to each chapter. We put them all in one place so 3009 02:31:10,440 --> 02:31:12,720 you can get all the Danny, all the Aria. 3010 02:31:13,040 --> 02:31:15,200 Not all of them are combined yet, but we're going through 3011 02:31:15,200 --> 02:31:18,800 them steadily over the months and weeks, and quite a few of 3012 02:31:18,800 --> 02:31:20,280 them are available now, including Daenerys. 3013 02:31:20,280 --> 02:31:23,400 So you can listen to only our Daenerys chapter analysis if you 3014 02:31:23,400 --> 02:31:27,120 want by joining us on Patreon. And if you're already there, 3015 02:31:27,440 --> 02:31:30,760 hey, go find that, listen to it, enjoy, and if you get any new 3016 02:31:30,760 --> 02:31:33,840 ideas, let us know. We're always up for discussing 3017 02:31:33,840 --> 02:31:35,240 theories and that kind of fun stuff. 3018 02:31:36,400 --> 02:31:40,720 Thank you everybody for watching live if you did, or catching the 3019 02:31:41,160 --> 02:31:44,160 episode after it was edited and put up on a podcast platform. 3020 02:31:44,240 --> 02:31:47,320 Either way, we appreciate you consuming history of Westeros. 3021 02:31:47,560 --> 02:31:50,400 Thank you to Nina Krusling for her assistance. 3022 02:31:50,600 --> 02:31:52,400 Check her out. A good Queen Alley with 3023 02:31:52,400 --> 02:31:57,080 1l.tumblr.com. Thanks to Joey Koval and Jesse 3024 02:31:57,080 --> 02:31:57,960 or Jesse. Yeah. 3025 02:31:58,040 --> 02:31:59,680 Joey Townsend and Joe. Jesse Koval. 3026 02:31:59,840 --> 02:32:02,320 I switched their last names. I hadn't done that in so long. 3027 02:32:02,320 --> 02:32:03,800 He used to do that all the time by accident. 3028 02:32:03,880 --> 02:32:05,160 It's been a while. It's like ash. 3029 02:32:05,160 --> 02:32:07,080 I threw me off. You know, to go forward, I must 3030 02:32:07,080 --> 02:32:12,280 go back to for their excellent music in our episodes. 3031 02:32:12,520 --> 02:32:15,240 The intro music was written by Joey Townsend and Jesse Koval 3032 02:32:15,240 --> 02:32:16,720 made a different version of it. We love that. 3033 02:32:16,840 --> 02:32:20,400 Bran the Builder also did that. He made a video intro for us. 3034 02:32:20,600 --> 02:32:24,480 So did Michael Klarfeld. So thanks to both of them and we 3035 02:32:24,480 --> 02:32:25,880 will see you all next time for more. 3036 02:32:26,120 --> 02:32:29,280 You know what to do, Velar Riris.