1
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,520
Lesser events had occurred, some
skirmishes and several burnings.

2
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,480
Smaller castles had fallen, and 
though some major locations like

3
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,040
Dunscandale were among those and
at least two of her and sons, 

4
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,600
nothing historical had occurred 
just yet, though it was clearly 

5
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,810
building towards that today. 
We reached the first major 

6
00:01:09,810 --> 00:01:13,530
battle of the conquest, the 
first time a dragon was truly 

7
00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:18,090
unleashed upon Westeros that we 
know of, and even if there were 

8
00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:20,330
others, it would have been eons 
prior. 

9
00:01:20,810 --> 00:01:24,010
In many ways, it was less of a 
battle and more of an 

10
00:01:24,050 --> 00:01:28,770
opportunity when opportunity for
Agon to set an example, one so 

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powerful that others would not 
dare to test him. 

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00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,280
In that sense, much was riding 
on this, because if done right, 

13
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,960
other kings might see the wisdom
in bending the knee rather than 

14
00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:42,240
fighting it out. 
Though he was more than willing 

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00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,080
to bring blood and fire to the 
battlefield, Aegon preferred 

16
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,680
willing surrender. 
He saw them as his future 

17
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,440
subjects, after all, so why kill
them? 

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00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,880
They're going to be his future 
soldiers and tax providers and 

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00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,700
all that, and there's no need to
sow bad blood towards him and 

20
00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:02,940
his family amongst those he had 
conquered. 

21
00:02:02,940 --> 00:02:05,100
So the smoother the process the 
better. 

22
00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:09,460
So if it went wrong, if it was 
done incorrectly, well there's a

23
00:02:09,460 --> 00:02:12,060
lot more work that could be 
created. 

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00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:17,340
A lot more blood and fire would 
be needed to fully subjugate the

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00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:20,860
seven Kingdoms or 8 kingdoms, or
however many kingdoms there 

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00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:23,740
were. 
It was going to be 7 pretty soon

27
00:02:23,740 --> 00:02:29,030
by his count, but there's 
exceptions to what I described 

28
00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:34,350
in terms of how to do a conquest
properly. 

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00:02:34,350 --> 00:02:36,590
Sometimes you do have to sow 
some bad blood. 

30
00:02:36,590 --> 00:02:39,310
Of course, you're overthrowing 
people and killing people. 

31
00:02:39,310 --> 00:02:44,750
You can't avoid that entirely, 
so, and if you do have to make 

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00:02:44,750 --> 00:02:47,430
someone angry, you still have to
be thorough. 

33
00:02:47,510 --> 00:02:50,190
If you're going to cause bad 
blood between families, best 

34
00:02:50,190 --> 00:02:53,110
make sure that the enemy 
bloodline is removed from the 

35
00:02:53,110 --> 00:02:55,020
Game of Thrones forever. 
It may. 

36
00:02:55,020 --> 00:02:57,980
It's one thing to make sure they
don't affect you, but what about

37
00:02:58,140 --> 00:02:59,660
your children? 
What about your children's 

38
00:02:59,660 --> 00:03:02,500
children? 
So better just get rid of them 

39
00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:05,380
all together. 
The lessons of Heron the Black 

40
00:03:05,380 --> 00:03:09,460
and Heron Hall as laid out by 
Aegon the Conqueror then, and a 

41
00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:11,780
bit of A Song of Ice and Fire to
look at it now. 

42
00:03:12,420 --> 00:03:15,260
Well, we've got all that and 
more on today's History of 

43
00:03:15,260 --> 00:03:20,700
Westeros podcast. 
Hello and welcome everybody. 

44
00:03:21,210 --> 00:03:26,010
Live streams every 3:00 PM 
Eastern on YouTube, every video 

45
00:03:26,050 --> 00:03:28,330
on YouTube and Spotify 
afterwards. 

46
00:03:28,370 --> 00:03:32,450
Audio only available everywhere.
And if you listen to the audio 

47
00:03:32,450 --> 00:03:36,090
only version on Patreon, well, 
it's ad free, so you save a 

48
00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:39,490
little time and get things 
through a little faster. 

49
00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:42,530
Yeah, it's a little smoother. 
Bit of a ride there, Sean, how 

50
00:03:42,530 --> 00:03:44,650
you doing today? 
I see you've got some drums on 

51
00:03:44,650 --> 00:03:46,170
your shirt, but there's no 
drummer. 

52
00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:48,140
What's that all about? 
Are you the drummer? 

53
00:03:48,140 --> 00:03:52,260
It's a it's a clutch shirt from 
a concert I went to a few weeks 

54
00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:59,380
ago. 
Well, I went to a clutch show 2 

55
00:03:59,380 --> 00:04:02,940
weeks ago, so it's the same tour
that we both attended shows on. 

56
00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:55,660
This is the just the stage. 
Those are amps, you know, It's 

57
00:03:55,660 --> 00:03:57,420
just a stage waiting for the 
band. 

58
00:04:02,940 --> 00:04:05,380
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. 
That is the band. 

59
00:04:05,380 --> 00:04:09,080
I've seen the most of any band 
by far, so you would think I 

60
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,560
might recognize the shirt. 
Clutch could say that they both 

61
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,720
attended a meeting with history 
of Westerns. 

62
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,839
That's true. 
Good point. 

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00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,360
I think it's a band I've seen. 
I think it's a band I've seen 

64
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,400
the most too, but not by far. 
I think that I've lost count, 

65
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,640
but it's around 15. 
But I think I've also seen the 

66
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,120
sword in Mastodon about 15 
times, give or take a couples. 

67
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,320
Hell yeah. 
I do have a. 

68
00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:37,450
A drink that I was trying to 
make the color of the orange 

69
00:04:37,450 --> 00:04:41,330
candle glow of molten rock of 
Heron Hall. 

70
00:04:41,930 --> 00:04:45,570
Well, it kind of matches the 
Kraken on my shirt. 

71
00:04:45,570 --> 00:04:48,690
I've got a Sanrixian shirt on 
today. 

72
00:04:48,690 --> 00:04:52,800
It's a grayjoy shirt and the 
Kraken is in is done in gold, 

73
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,920
but golden orange can kind of 
look a little similar, 

74
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,560
especially on camera. 
It also matches the text of of 

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00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,400
your Amelie poster behind you 
there. 

76
00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:02,280
Yeah, always coordinated. 
Sean and Sean and I are 

77
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:03,680
coordinated too. 
We're both wearing black. 

78
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,000
Shay has got dark Gray, so it's 
pretty close. 

79
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,960
You know, we're coordinated. 
We do that. 

80
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,960
Shout out to our good friend 
Nina, whose blog is good. 

81
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,960
Queenalley.tumblr.com That's 1L 
in alley. 

82
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,520
Also 1L in Tumblr, but you know,
you probably knew that already. 

83
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:24,760
Her latest? 
Ease in Tumblr. 

84
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,040
There's no ease in Tumblr that 
you might not have known because

85
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,920
you would think there would be 
any in Tumblr the the website, 

86
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,360
they just dispense with that. 
What is that? 

87
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,560
What is with that trend? 
Getting rid of the E like 

88
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,040
Grinder, Grinder and Tumblr. 
The Grinder and Tumblr don't 

89
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,880
really have that much in common.
Flicker. 

90
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,000
That's another one that did it. 
Yeah. 

91
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,400
What's up with that? 
Is it? 

92
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,080
I think it's just an extension 
of people running out of names. 

93
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,280
I. 
Think just running out of things

94
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,680
the word. 
Flicker you're going to come out

95
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,680
with, you know, Yeah, more 
things than if you brand 

96
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,920
yourself to be flicker without 
the E And that's true, because 

97
00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,640
the word flicker has been used a
million times. 

98
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,480
But the flicker is is an 
entirely new word that no one's 

99
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,440
every. 
As no no I that's a recurring 

100
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,640
joke I like to hear like what 
are what are our grandchildren's

101
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,680
grandchildren gonna do for 
screen names like on you know 

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00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,880
like everything's taken. 
People are already using like X 

103
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,400
uppercase, X lowercase, X dot 
under score you know just it's 

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00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,760
just crazy. 
So yeah, they're gonna just be 

105
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,240
running. 
They have some great purge where

106
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,640
all old nicknames will be a 
raise and they can start over. 

107
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,880
And it's it's gonna be like a 
nickname, screen name. 

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00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,560
Jihad. 
It's coming, I'm telling you. 

109
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,240
Your online names are just going
to be like the second in junior 

110
00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:39,280
hospital. 
That's going to go back. 

111
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,360
No, it's not going to get to the
modern. 

112
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,320
It's going to go back to ancient
times. 

113
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,680
Yeah, we're going to go redo 
things. 

114
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,840
That's hilarious. 
The latest blog post on Nina's 

115
00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:54,480
blog is on the Accursed Kings. 
Shocking. 

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00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:55,800
She loves the Accursed Kings. 
So do I. 

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00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,840
It's a fantastic series. 
One day we're going to cover it 

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00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,280
in more in depth because it is a
huge influence on George. 

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00:07:00,710 --> 00:07:04,150
And Y'all would notice a lot of 
those influences just by reading

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00:07:04,150 --> 00:07:06,830
through it, even without deep 
analysis. 

121
00:07:06,990 --> 00:07:09,110
But we will do deep analysis on 
it one day. 

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00:07:09,870 --> 00:07:13,430
And Nia's wondering specifically
on some of these influences, 

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00:07:13,430 --> 00:07:16,630
because the 7th book of a Cursed
Kings is very different than the

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first six, because it's a 
historical fiction series and 

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00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:22,230
you know it's bound by things 
that really happened, which 

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00:07:22,230 --> 00:07:25,310
doesn't always make a perfectly 
fluid narrative. 

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00:07:25,670 --> 00:07:29,320
That doesn't mean it's not 
amazing, but the 7th book was 

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00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,320
very unpopular and it was never 
published in English when George

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00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,600
first read it. 
So Nina's wondering if since it 

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00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,360
was eventually published in 
English, did he read it and is 

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00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,480
it going to influence his 
characterizations of people Like

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00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,000
Egg on the 4th, for example? 
Because Egg on the 4th is is 

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00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,280
represented by a few of the 
characters who are real people 

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00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,040
in the Cursive King. 
So you don't want to check that 

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00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,120
out, especially if you've read 
The Cursive Kings, but you will 

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00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,320
probably find it very 
interesting regardless because, 

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00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,880
well, any kind of George 
influence stuff is often very 

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00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,360
interesting. 
Halfway through the episode 

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00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,360
today, we're going to take about
10 minutes to chat about Dragon 

140
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,760
Con 2023. 
Ashay and I attended, and we got

141
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,800
some good cosplay photos we want
to share with y'all. 

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00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,840
Several of them are a Song of 
Ice and Fire related. 

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00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,320
Not all of them, but a lot of 
them are. 

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00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,520
I think you guys will appreciate
that. 

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00:08:18,140 --> 00:08:20,140
And throughout the episode, 
we'll encounter topics that 

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00:08:20,140 --> 00:08:22,740
we've done full episodes on, and
we'll point those out to you at 

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00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:25,820
the ends and during so you can 
check those out if you haven't, 

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00:08:25,820 --> 00:08:28,060
or if you want to recheck them 
out so you can stay immersed in 

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00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:30,260
Westeros. 
That's our goal here, to make 

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00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:33,700
you feel immersed in this world.
And if you want to stay 

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00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:35,780
immersed, well, the next thing 
to do or the next best thing to 

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00:08:35,780 --> 00:08:37,299
do is move on to another 
episode. 

153
00:08:38,620 --> 00:08:42,380
Our next hangout is going to be 
Trivia instead of Quiplash. 

154
00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:44,059
It's usually going to be 
Quiplash, occasionally a 

155
00:08:44,059 --> 00:08:46,340
different Jackbox game or 
something else, but this time 

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00:08:46,340 --> 00:08:48,740
it's going to be trivia. 
And yes, it will be a song, 

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00:08:48,740 --> 00:08:50,660
license fire Game of Thrones 
trivia. 

158
00:08:51,180 --> 00:08:53,540
It will be Tuesday the 26th at 
9:00 Eastern. 

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00:08:53,660 --> 00:08:55,700
If you'd like to join, send us 
an e-mail at 

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00:08:55,700 --> 00:09:00,660
westeroshistory@gmail.com or 
contact us through the Facebook 

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00:09:00,660 --> 00:09:03,620
group or your Patreon. 
If you're on Patreon, send us an

162
00:09:03,620 --> 00:09:05,140
e-mail there. 
Any of the various ways will 

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00:09:05,140 --> 00:09:07,020
work. 
We'll get the e-mail and respond

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00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:09,410
accordingly. 
Also at the end of the episode 

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00:09:09,410 --> 00:09:13,170
will be our the answer to this 
trivia question which is Heron 

166
00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:17,450
the Black's grandfather Harwin 
Hardhand is inspired by what 

167
00:09:17,450 --> 00:09:20,650
real life Viking king is a 
pretty famous person. 

168
00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:23,570
And see, it's a little bit of a 
different question because it 

169
00:09:23,570 --> 00:09:25,170
requires a little bit of real 
world knowledge. 

170
00:09:25,210 --> 00:09:28,450
On the other hand, I've 
mentioned this at least twice in

171
00:09:28,450 --> 00:09:31,530
prior podcast, so you might 
remember it from that and so you

172
00:09:31,530 --> 00:09:33,930
don't have to have known known, 
known this from real life 

173
00:09:33,930 --> 00:09:35,050
trivia. 
You could have just listened to 

174
00:09:35,050 --> 00:09:39,550
the podcast, Heard me say it 
last time Heron called his 

175
00:09:39,550 --> 00:09:44,310
banners, only for them to join 
Agon the Conqueror instead. 

176
00:09:44,390 --> 00:09:46,750
Oops. 
Still, he believed he could win,

177
00:09:46,750 --> 00:09:49,750
given his confidence in the 
great castle he ruled and had 

178
00:09:49,750 --> 00:09:53,430
just completed. 
We'll pick it up right here with

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00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:57,710
the next bit in this saga, which
is one of the more directly 

180
00:09:57,710 --> 00:10:00,830
recorded moments of the entire 
episode, meaning the episode of 

181
00:10:00,830 --> 00:10:04,150
Heron versus Agon. 
Not this episode, but it also 

182
00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:06,620
serves for that. 
So one of the few times we hear 

183
00:10:06,620 --> 00:10:10,660
Agon's actual words quote. 
Once he had joined his power 

184
00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:14,140
with that of Edmond Tully and 
the other river Lords to ring 

185
00:10:14,140 --> 00:10:18,100
the castle, he sent a maister to
the gates under a peace banner 

186
00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:21,700
to parley. 
Heron emerged to meet him, an 

187
00:10:21,740 --> 00:10:25,300
old man and Gray, yet still 
fierce in his black armor. 

188
00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:29,820
Each king had his banner bearer 
and his maister in attendance, 

189
00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:33,060
so the words that they exchanged
are still remembered. 

190
00:10:33,790 --> 00:10:38,430
Yield now, Agon began, and you 
may remain as Lord of the Iron 

191
00:10:38,430 --> 00:10:42,070
Islands. 
Yield now, and your sons will 

192
00:10:42,070 --> 00:10:46,950
live to rule after you. 
I have 8000 men outside your 

193
00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:49,190
walls. 
What is outside my walls is of 

194
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:52,350
no concern to me, said Heron. 
Those walls are strong and 

195
00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:54,750
thick. 
But not so high as to keep out 

196
00:10:54,750 --> 00:10:57,110
Dragons. 
Dragons fly. 

197
00:10:57,270 --> 00:11:00,430
I built in stone, said Heron. 
Stone does not burn. 

198
00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:04,660
To which Agon said. 
When the sunsets, your line 

199
00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:07,460
shall end. 
It is said that Heron spat at 

200
00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:10,740
that and returned to his castle.
You should have saved that spit 

201
00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:12,540
to put out the fire that was 
coming. 

202
00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:15,860
Yes, it wouldn't have worked, 
but still. 

203
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:24,500
I imagine that Jason Schwartzman
playing Heron Stone doesn't 

204
00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:28,130
burn, eh? 
Well, he doesn't even know about

205
00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:30,290
wildfire, does he? 
He doesn't even man doesn't even

206
00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:33,370
know about wildfire. 
Stone totally burns and Valerian

207
00:11:33,370 --> 00:11:35,450
is his flames are hotter than 
wildfire. 

208
00:11:35,650 --> 00:11:38,970
This guy is really not coming up
Coming at this with a lot of 

209
00:11:38,970 --> 00:11:41,490
knowledge is he? 
And I also think Aegon's kind of

210
00:11:41,490 --> 00:11:43,730
baiting him here. 
He's like, I got 8000 men 

211
00:11:43,730 --> 00:11:47,370
outside your walls like he knows
Heron won't be intimidated by 

212
00:11:47,370 --> 00:11:50,290
8000 men outside these walls. 
These walls are gigantic. 

213
00:11:50,650 --> 00:11:55,680
Heron Hall is huge. 8000 men 
isn't enough to take most of the

214
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:58,680
great castles that we've seen in
Westeros, let alone this one. 

215
00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,160
So like it wouldn't be enough to
take storms and it wouldn't be 

216
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,840
enough to take, certainly not 
enough to Castle Rock. 

217
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,880
I don't think it's enough to 
take Winterfell. 

218
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,120
I mean no, it's just so I think 
Aegon knows this, that he's not 

219
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,280
going to intimidate Heron was 
just that because I think he 

220
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,360
wants the fight. 
I think, yeah, in most of these 

221
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,440
cases, as I said in the intro, 
he wants Heron. 

222
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,400
He wants his these people to 
bend the knee to him. 

223
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,400
But he needs to make an example 
out of someone. 

224
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,280
We've been we've been saying 
that a lot and we've also been 

225
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,680
saying that this is the the 
perfect guy to make an example 

226
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:30,960
of. 
So I think he knew Heron's pride

227
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,320
wouldn't would be enough to keep
him from fighting or from 

228
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,080
bending the knee. 
But he wanted to make sure. 

229
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:43,440
So he worded things, you know, 
the right way to not be 

230
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:44,960
intimidated. 
Not that he would be intimidated

231
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,560
anyway. 
This guy seems just kind of 

232
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:48,120
toughminded. 
But what do you think about 

233
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,800
that, Sean? 
Is that kind of how you read it 

234
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,800
or is this something you could 
just say? 

235
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,160
Oh, George got the numbers 
wrong. 

236
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,240
He does that occasionally. 
He doesn't, but I don't know 

237
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,280
he's he's this isn't a mistake 
I've seen him make before. 

238
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,520
Like he seems to do pretty well 
with battle numbers. 

239
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,960
Like, it's things like distance 
and money that sometimes he kind

240
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,990
of fudges. 
But soldiers, I don't know that 

241
00:13:04,990 --> 00:13:06,110
he's. 
I haven't seen him make that 

242
00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:08,150
mistake before. 
Maybe. 

243
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:11,310
Maybe populations, maybe. 
So sometimes some of the size of

244
00:13:11,310 --> 00:13:14,790
some armies might be bigger than
they should be, quote UN quote. 

245
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:20,710
But one or the other, I think in
this scenario, maybe, I don't 

246
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:22,510
know how to say. 
It's like the idea that, like 

247
00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:25,510
Heron is playing in the Aegon's 
hands or the Aegon is trying to 

248
00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:29,960
get him to, you know? 
Setting up a scenario that he 

249
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,000
couldn't, that he shouldn't be 
afraid of, But what? 

250
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,520
What if Aegon actually had 
18,000? 

251
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,440
Then a Heron would have been the
knee. 

252
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,520
Probably not 80. 1000 Maybe I. 
Still think maybe that's the 

253
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,080
point where Heron's like 
rethinking things or maybe 

254
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,120
internally is worried, but I 
don't think he behaves any 

255
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,080
differently. 
Yeah. 

256
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,240
So yeah, which again is why I 
think. 

257
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,080
A gun is choosing his battle. 
He knows it's going to go the 

258
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,160
way he was. 
You know he's he's calculated 

259
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,600
this moment and his battle 
perfectly. 

260
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,400
Yeah, it's fully in the driver 
seat. 

261
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,880
Nina puts another point to it 
which is maybe he's taunting 

262
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,320
Heron in that those are his. 
Those were his 8000 men just a 

263
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,280
few weeks ago. 
And it's like, yeah, I have 8000

264
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,280
men that used to be yours. 
That's the the part in 

265
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,720
parentheses. 
So that adds to the taunt. 

266
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,120
If it's if it's meant that way, 
or even if it's not, it might be

267
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,800
interpreted that way. 
And it's just when you have a 

268
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,680
very proud man backed into a 
corner, there is not much they 

269
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,600
can do but kind of go down with 
the ship again. 

270
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,040
We'll see. 
R Galac, the arrogant kind of do

271
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,550
a similar thing. 
And to be fair, it's not just 

272
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:40,670
pride. 
He really does have the biggest 

273
00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:41,910
castle in all the land. 
That's true. 

274
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:46,830
I mean, he has legitimate reason
to believe that he can withstand

275
00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:47,750
this. 
That's a good point. 

276
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:50,830
Yeah, Even with the dragon, he's
even saying, like, what are you 

277
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:53,150
going to do? 
Like, because there are a lot of

278
00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:56,070
Dragons. 
I think they could have not done

279
00:14:56,070 --> 00:14:59,950
what Blairian did. 
It's not crazy for him to scoff 

280
00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:01,350
at the dragon even. 
Yeah, I agree. 

281
00:15:01,350 --> 00:15:02,070
I agree. 
It's not. 

282
00:15:02,070 --> 00:15:03,830
It's not crazy. 
It might be foolish, but it's 

283
00:15:03,830 --> 00:15:08,640
not completely crazy. 
And also, yeah, there's the the 

284
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,000
point about more men not making 
much difference, but there's 

285
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,840
also the point of of what does 
Heron stand to gain, what does 

286
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,360
he stand to lose? 
This kind of things like the 

287
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,640
risk reward and all that. 
Like with Argalac. 

288
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:23,680
Argalac knew he was going to 
lose. 

289
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,080
Like he had was like okay, I'm 
just going to die with a sword 

290
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,800
in hand and he could like he's 
doesn't have his helmet on 

291
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,160
anymore. 
He's just like, yeah, I just 

292
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,840
want one last fight. 
You know, he he knew he was 

293
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,920
going to lose. 
Even if he won that duel, his 

294
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,640
army was defeated and that was 
it. 

295
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,320
That that's not necessarily the 
case for Heron, as you're saying

296
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,080
here. 
We don't know if Heron was just 

297
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,520
like, I'm going down with the 
ship, a KA my castle. 

298
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,520
Kind of appropriate for an 
Ironborn, though, to go down 

299
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,440
with the ship. 
But yeah, we don't actually know

300
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,840
that's what he's saying. 
He may have until those flames 

301
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,520
started pouring down and he may 
not. 

302
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,240
He may have still thought he was
going to win. 

303
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,400
Obviously he was wrong. 
I wonder what his sons thought. 

304
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,640
Two of them had already been 
killed. 

305
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,690
So what about the others? 
We also don't know if one of 

306
00:16:02,690 --> 00:16:05,890
them had just been promoted to 
air after those other two had 

307
00:16:05,890 --> 00:16:07,490
been killed. 
If there had been like a shake 

308
00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:09,290
up there or maybe it was one of 
the younger ones that was 

309
00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:11,970
killed. 
I tend to believe that it was 

310
00:16:11,970 --> 00:16:13,610
the one of the oldest was one of
the ones killed. 

311
00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:16,850
Because it's usually like the 
the the most. 

312
00:16:17,050 --> 00:16:20,090
The one that's sent out to do 
things is the eldest to some 

313
00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:22,250
amongst the Ironborn. 
Especially when they're not 

314
00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:24,010
worried about protecting the 
air, they're like, no, you got 

315
00:16:24,010 --> 00:16:27,270
to get out there and and lead by
example and lead from the front 

316
00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:29,310
and prove yourself as a warrior 
and all that stuff. 

317
00:16:29,310 --> 00:16:32,310
And as we theorized, even they 
may have been the ones to 

318
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:34,550
suggest that they be like, hey, 
let us, let's take a shot at 

319
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:35,830
them, let's let's ambush them at
night. 

320
00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:39,110
Kind of like how Brandon Snow 
wanted to do that to the 

321
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:41,910
Dragons. 
So this sort of attitude is 

322
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:43,590
going to be pervasive. 
They're going to be like, yeah, 

323
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:46,030
well, let's, we want to fight. 
We want to do something about 

324
00:16:46,030 --> 00:16:47,470
it. 
We don't want to just bend the 

325
00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:49,350
knee with so many characters, so
many people. 

326
00:16:50,030 --> 00:16:53,270
Maybe one of her and sons was 
like, I kind of want to 

327
00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:54,950
surrender, but he's not going 
to. 

328
00:16:55,190 --> 00:16:57,510
He's not going to say that, but 
you might hope. 

329
00:16:57,550 --> 00:17:01,430
Maybe if I survive all this and 
I'll bend the knee when my 

330
00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:03,750
father's dead. 
And that wouldn't work out 

331
00:17:03,790 --> 00:17:07,950
either of course, But. 
And a gun. 

332
00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:10,270
Nina points out a gun may have 
wanted to demonstrate that he 

333
00:17:10,270 --> 00:17:15,390
could and would observe the 
standard forms of diplomacy and 

334
00:17:15,390 --> 00:17:18,790
chivalry, even if he didn't 
actually believe a gun would. 

335
00:17:18,869 --> 00:17:22,079
Or Heron would surrender, which 
that is kind of where I'm at 

336
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:23,760
with it. 
I don't think Agon believed 

337
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,240
Heron would surrender, but he 
still has to go through the 

338
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,040
motions and still behave like a 
Westerosi king should. 

339
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:35,400
Talk, talk it out, engage in 
diplomacy, do the things that 7 

340
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,800
kingdoms, culture expects, even 
if it's not necessarily smart or

341
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,800
in his best interests in terms 
of risk and reward. 

342
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,560
It is in terms of presenting 
himself as a as the right king 

343
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,360
for Westeros. 
Things he does later, like 

344
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:56,040
adopting the religion of the 
Kingdom and letting the king the

345
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,000
various kingdoms continue to 
rule the way they had before for

346
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,720
the most part. 
So he was definitely as dominant

347
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:08,280
and confident as he was he. 
He also aimed to not make big 

348
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,920
changes, at least not at first, 
so that kind of fits in there. 

349
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,180
I wonder if Heron had. 
Better insight about Valerian. 

350
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:19,540
If Aegon had announced his 
intention sooner, or if the 

351
00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:22,020
threat of Dragons have been 
around for longer, he might have

352
00:18:22,020 --> 00:18:24,340
built that castle differently. 
There might have been more 

353
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:29,460
underground tunnels, less. 
The towers didn't necessarily 

354
00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:32,140
need to be quite as tall, but 
the underground portion could 

355
00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:35,260
have been stronger to maybe 
withstand the fire or the heat, 

356
00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:38,780
or have past secret passages out
to come up from behind. 

357
00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:43,100
I don't know exactly, but I I 
again, I feel like Aegon. 

358
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,520
Just had this perfect moment, 
yeah, to take out this castle 

359
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,600
that wasn't prepared for 
Balerian, that, that that. 

360
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,880
Understandably, Heron was too 
arrogant about. 

361
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,320
Yeah. 
And I like this part about 

362
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,400
tunnels. 
I wrote something in the notes 

363
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,040
about that too, because we the 
point made in Fire and Blood 

364
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,560
here here is that there's 
meisters observing this 

365
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,360
conversation. 
That's why it's supposedly word 

366
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,520
for word what was actually said 
between these two kings. 

367
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,600
So, you know, they're both in 
Black armor, 2 Kings and Black 

368
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,120
Armor. 
Just chatting away the day, you 

369
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,000
know, having a good old time, 
you know. 

370
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:21,440
And does that mean Heron's 
Maester burned with the rest 

371
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,560
inside the castle? 
Because Heron stayed, you know, 

372
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,160
to lead. 
He didn't flee. 

373
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,920
He didn't run down into the 
underground tunnels. 

374
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,440
There are tunnels. 
I don't know if there's a tunnel

375
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,560
that leads out, you know, from 
under the walls and at let's 

376
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,120
sort of escape tunnel. 
I don't think there's anything 

377
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:36,480
like that. 
I've never heard of that in 

378
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,320
Heron Hall, but there's 
definitely underground vaults 

379
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,840
and all this fresh water and 
food storage down there. 

380
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,160
There's definitely stuff 
underground. 

381
00:19:43,670 --> 00:19:48,070
So I don't assume every single 
person in the castle died. 

382
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:50,470
I mean, it's so big. 
He didn't burn every inch of it.

383
00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:52,550
There had to be places where 
people could flee to. 

384
00:19:52,550 --> 00:19:55,430
He didn't burn the Gods Wood. 
People could have fled to the 

385
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:58,870
Gods wood perhaps. 
So I'm not sure Heron's all that

386
00:19:58,870 --> 00:20:03,190
concerned with where the Maester
is during the battle once it 

387
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:07,420
kicks off once Belarion is. 
Doing dive bombs, especially at 

388
00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:09,220
night. 
You know, I don't. 

389
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:11,340
He's like, where's the Meister? 
You know, bring the Meister to 

390
00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:12,980
me. 
I need him with me right now. 

391
00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:16,300
I'm thinking the Meister might 
be like, I've got some things to

392
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:22,140
do below the earth, you know, 
and just try to that that would 

393
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:25,020
explain how we have some of 
these words, like the parting 

394
00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:28,180
words, because there's words 
that he says that come later. 

395
00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:30,260
Nina's like, I'm not sure how we
know those words. 

396
00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:33,940
Like did Aegons Meister Wouldn't
have heard that. 

397
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,080
So where how was how was this 
dialogue observed? 

398
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,200
This is my best theory for that 
and it's pretty rational. 

399
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,920
Like it's pretty reasonable. 
Like the maester wouldn't just 

400
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,000
stand there in the tower with 
Maher and going, yeah, I'm, I'm 

401
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,720
here with you to the end. 
You know like yeah. 

402
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,960
Maester's serve the castle, you 
know. 

403
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,720
So he's like, well I'm serving 
the castle by. 

404
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,160
I don't know just think about 
he's a human. 

405
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,080
He's not a warrior. 
Probably this Maester guy, 

406
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,600
whoever he. 
Is there's some maesters you 

407
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,440
might imagine it from, it may be
where they are. 

408
00:21:01,170 --> 00:21:03,890
More militant or when it I don't
know someone like Heron might 

409
00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:06,530
have picked out but but it seems
to me Heron and Ironborn in 

410
00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:08,810
general be like whatever. 
I guess I'll get a mater like 

411
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:11,930
they would have reluctant about 
having it in the 1st place much 

412
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:14,410
less like really relying on them
or anything. 

413
00:21:14,410 --> 00:21:17,690
But yeah, it does make sense 
that there might have been some 

414
00:21:17,690 --> 00:21:22,730
survivors and or some tunnel or 
but but again, even if there was

415
00:21:22,730 --> 00:21:25,370
some way that maybe someone 
could have hidden out and 

416
00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:29,370
survived in some underground you
know, storage spot or whatever. 

417
00:21:30,570 --> 00:21:33,170
They so couldn't have heard it. 
You know how many people think 

418
00:21:33,170 --> 00:21:34,930
we're in that castle? 
Like, that's a good question. 

419
00:21:34,930 --> 00:21:37,290
I have no idea. 
Certainly hundreds, maybe 

420
00:21:37,290 --> 00:21:38,290
thousands. 
I think thousands. 

421
00:21:38,770 --> 00:21:45,050
And and so some random escape 
tunnel that, like a key 

422
00:21:45,050 --> 00:21:49,130
messenger, could flee from. 
You couldn't suddenly herd out 

423
00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:50,970
thousands of people, right? 
You know what I mean? 

424
00:21:51,010 --> 00:21:53,410
Not that The Inheron probably 
wouldn't give that order anyway.

425
00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:54,890
He's not like, yeah, he's like 
stay. 

426
00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:56,290
He doesn't care about their 
lives. 

427
00:21:56,570 --> 00:21:58,050
That. 
That's an open big open question

428
00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:01,990
is sure the the river Landers, 
the river Lords turned on him as

429
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:05,910
soon as they could when Agon 
proved to be a worthy person to 

430
00:22:05,910 --> 00:22:09,550
switch to, and someone that they
wouldn't back something that 

431
00:22:09,550 --> 00:22:11,430
wouldn't backfire because they 
were obviously worried about, 

432
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:13,350
well, what if Agon loses? 
We switched to him. 

433
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:14,630
What is herring going to do to 
us? 

434
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:18,790
You know if we if we aren't on 
his side Now whoever amongst the

435
00:22:18,790 --> 00:22:21,070
Ironborn were around the 
Riverlands, this is a big open 

436
00:22:21,070 --> 00:22:24,310
question. 
Like, how much did he bring some

437
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:26,390
of the ironborn Lords into the 
river lands? 

438
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:30,590
Like, how many marriages did he 
oversee between river Lords and 

439
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:32,830
Ironborn? 
How many did his father and 

440
00:22:32,830 --> 00:22:35,750
grandfather oversee of that 
nature? 

441
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:39,150
So there would have been some 
family connections that were 

442
00:22:39,150 --> 00:22:41,430
kind of uncomfortable, like 
families that didn't want to 

443
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:43,510
have these marriages, and now 
they had a way out. 

444
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:46,910
But some of their children were 
already born or some of them 

445
00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:49,630
were already adults. 
And this isn't spoken of it all.

446
00:22:49,670 --> 00:22:52,860
It's just kind of glossed over 
that, you know, eventually the 

447
00:22:53,260 --> 00:22:55,460
ironborn were kicked out or the 
ironborn were gone. 

448
00:22:56,020 --> 00:22:58,940
But the process is we don't hear
it. 

449
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:02,660
So there's a lot of room for us 
to theorize and imagine, but 

450
00:23:02,660 --> 00:23:05,780
we're not quite here there yet. 
Actually, we we've described the

451
00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:08,300
burning, but we haven't actually
gone through it. 

452
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:10,660
So let's do that. 
Let's talk about the largest 

453
00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:14,900
candles ever. 
Westeros, the big 5 candles made

454
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,940
of stone glass candles are more 
mysterious, but let's not forget

455
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:20,700
about these kinds. 
Here's a great passage quote. 

456
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,160
When no dragon appeared, some 
may have thought that Aegon's 

457
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:30,160
threats had been hollow, but 
Aegon Targaryen took Valerian up

458
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,800
high through the clouds, up and 
up until the dragon was no 

459
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:40,320
bigger than a fly upon the moon.
Only then did he descend well 

460
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,800
inside the castle, walls on 
wings as black as pitch, 

461
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,320
Valerian plunged through the 
night. 

462
00:23:47,730 --> 00:23:51,650
And when the great towers of 
Heron Hall appeared beneath him,

463
00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:57,290
the dragon roared his fury and 
bathed them in black fire, shot 

464
00:23:57,290 --> 00:24:00,650
through with swirls of red 
stone. 

465
00:24:00,650 --> 00:24:03,250
Does not burn, Heron had 
boasted. 

466
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:06,050
But his castle was not made of 
stone alone. 

467
00:24:06,530 --> 00:24:11,810
Wood and wool, hemp and straw, 
bread and salted beef and grain,

468
00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:15,970
all took fire. 
Nor were Heron's iron men made 

469
00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:19,880
of stone. 
Smoking, screaming, shrouded in 

470
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,680
flames, they ran across the 
yards and tumbled from the wall.

471
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,240
Walks to die upon the ground 
below, and even stone will crack

472
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,600
and melt if a fire is hot 
enough. 

473
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,080
The river Lords outside the 
castle walls said later that the

474
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:40,280
towers of Heron Hall glowed red 
against the night like 5 great 

475
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,920
candles. 
And like candles, they began to 

476
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,690
twist and melt. 
As runnels of molten stone ran 

477
00:24:48,690 --> 00:24:53,290
down their sides, these river 
Lords that observed it and the 

478
00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:58,090
rest of those 8000 men, how many
years, probably all of their 

479
00:24:58,090 --> 00:25:01,410
years, were they telling this 
story to their descendants and 

480
00:25:01,410 --> 00:25:03,650
other people? 
Like, let me tell you about the 

481
00:25:03,650 --> 00:25:10,090
day Balerian burned hair and all
and overthrew the king, the hair

482
00:25:10,090 --> 00:25:14,650
in the black and his line that 
had held sway over our lands for

483
00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:17,990
100 years. 
And in that moment we were free.

484
00:25:18,030 --> 00:25:21,950
You know, we became vassals of 
the Dragon King instead of of 

485
00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:23,990
the Iron King and before that 
the Storm Kings. 

486
00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:28,950
So this this was a huge moment. 
Not only because it led to not 

487
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:32,110
independence, but a much better 
situation for them in terms of 

488
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,080
once again not being a truly 
independent Kingdom, but not 

489
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,920
being ruled by a tyrant. 
Being ruled, you know, until 

490
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,560
like Meg or comes along, but you
know, still someone a lot better

491
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,400
than Heron. 
Someone that wasn't enslaving 

492
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,480
them and forcing him. 
Forcing to build his great 

493
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,480
castle and causing their deaths 
and all that. 

494
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,120
A much better situation. 
Something they could be a lot 

495
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,240
more proud of. 
They hadn't been conquered. 

496
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,480
They bent the knee willingly in 
this case, which is a lot more 

497
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,730
honorable and it's so it's a big
moment just probably for the 

498
00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:06,530
next several generations and 
maybe it's part of why the 

499
00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:10,650
Tully's as we'll speak on a 
little later or stay loyal for a

500
00:26:10,650 --> 00:26:15,130
really really long time. 
This moment was so demonstrative

501
00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:19,690
and and memorable and just 
historical right and and I think

502
00:26:19,690 --> 00:26:22,170
George of course knew that when 
he was writing it and he 

503
00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:25,840
understood what he was doing. 
He always does, pretty much, and

504
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,560
I think he took a little extra 
care writing it. 

505
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,960
Like the the way this is written
on wings as black as pitch 

506
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,440
Balerian plunge through the 
night. 

507
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,160
That's a little less like a 
historical text and a little 

508
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,080
more like prose and poetry. 
Right now I'm obviously not 

509
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,840
complaining, but like I noticed 
the he see, he sometimes jumps 

510
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,480
out of Gildain to become George 
R Martin again when he's 

511
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,880
writing. 
These really important parts is 

512
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,080
a little bit of a little meta 
there, I think. 

513
00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:52,570
I like that. 
I like noticing that because 

514
00:26:52,770 --> 00:26:54,930
remember what we said right at 
the beginning of this reread? 

515
00:26:54,930 --> 00:26:58,410
Like, yeah, some historians, 
they're really good historians, 

516
00:26:58,410 --> 00:27:02,010
but they don't write. 
They write so dryly that if if 

517
00:27:02,010 --> 00:27:05,570
someone else were writing the 
facts they had uncovered, it 

518
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:08,090
would be so interesting and 
readable. 

519
00:27:08,410 --> 00:27:11,090
But because it was written by 
someone with not a lot of 

520
00:27:11,090 --> 00:27:13,850
imagination or just not a lot of
not greater writing, it's not as

521
00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:15,770
interesting. 
And that's just a common thread 

522
00:27:15,770 --> 00:27:19,040
amongst historical texts, but 
not with George. 

523
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,640
Obviously George is really good 
at making it interesting. 

524
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,280
And it's in terms of a lesson 
though that's the in the candles

525
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,200
and all that business. 
It's certainly the biggest 

526
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,280
demonstration of what a dragon 
can do to a castle, or at least 

527
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,920
that particular dragon, as we 
continuously need to clarify. 

528
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,760
And who would want to test the 
lessons? 

529
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,400
OK, so maybe the smaller ones 
can't quite do that, but would 

530
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,160
you really want to test it? 
Would you really want to find 

531
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,920
out? 
You're like, let's just just not

532
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,440
go there, you know? 
And they're. 

533
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,560
Two smaller ones also, right? 
And they're not small. 

534
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,120
They're just smaller, right? 
They're not, They're not 

535
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:53,000
hatchlings. 
Right. 

536
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,640
And if I say, who would want to 
test the lesser ones? 

537
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,960
Well, actually several people 
did want to test them. 

538
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,920
Several people did fight them. 
So there are some, but fewer 

539
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,040
than there would have been. 
I think like maybe, like Torren 

540
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,200
Stark maybe is an example of 
someone who was totally ready to

541
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,880
fight. 
And then when he shows up and 

542
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,960
sees he's like, I mean, never 
mind. 

543
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,680
Some people fought them and some
people won. 

544
00:28:13,210 --> 00:28:14,530
That's true. 
There were some victories. 

545
00:28:14,570 --> 00:28:17,970
Like Moraxis was killed, that's 
true. 

546
00:28:21,250 --> 00:28:22,650
I'm just saying like they 
weren't crazy. 

547
00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:19,650
But that that's still 10 years 
away. 

548
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:29,370
So until that happened, they. 
They they innovated. 

549
00:28:22,650 --> 00:28:25,250
They weren't wrong to think like
we could take a dress like 

550
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:27,610
someone someone did take a 
dragon down. 

551
00:28:29,370 --> 00:28:32,210
They maybe looked into history. 
Then they looked to figure out 

552
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:34,570
what types of things had killed 
Dragons in the past. 

553
00:28:34,570 --> 00:28:36,170
They may have gone to the 
library better. 

554
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:39,650
The door should just different. 
I don't know about these river 

555
00:28:39,650 --> 00:28:42,450
Landers or anyone else taking 
their dragon, but the Dornish 

556
00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:43,650
could do it. 
Easy. 

557
00:28:46,210 --> 00:28:48,650
It's clear they didn't have that
technology because when when 

558
00:28:48,650 --> 00:28:53,850
Heron is describing, like when 
we get the passage describing 

559
00:28:54,090 --> 00:28:57,810
the weaponry, there's no large 
bolt throwers or anything like 

560
00:28:57,810 --> 00:28:59,330
that. 
I'm neither on their ships as we

561
00:28:59,330 --> 00:29:02,730
pointed out in that prior battle
or on the wall walks here where 

562
00:29:02,730 --> 00:29:04,530
they could actually do it when 
we talk about the ships, like 

563
00:29:04,530 --> 00:29:07,210
you can't just add a big old 
bolt thrower to a long ship and 

564
00:29:07,210 --> 00:29:09,850
expect it to be able to sail the
same way. 

565
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:12,390
But a castle wall, especially 
besides the Heron Hall, it's a 

566
00:29:12,390 --> 00:29:14,190
different matter. 
They could throw quite a lot of 

567
00:29:14,190 --> 00:29:16,430
weight up there and it would be 
just fine. 

568
00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:18,990
I mean these are walls taller 
than any quote UN quote, any 

569
00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:22,030
ladder and thicker than any ram 
could knock down. 

570
00:29:22,030 --> 00:29:23,590
So yeah, no question they could 
do that. 

571
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:25,630
But they were not prepared for. 
And this is what Sean was 

572
00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:28,670
speaking to. 
Hagon's perfect moment in a lot 

573
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:30,430
of ways. 
So many of the one of the many 

574
00:29:30,430 --> 00:29:33,030
things that makes it a perfect 
moment is that yeah, they just, 

575
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,640
they didn't have the right 
strategy. 

576
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,640
They didn't have the right 
thought process for this, let 

577
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:37,960
alone all they had was the 
bravery. 

578
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,640
But nothing, nothing to back it 
up. 

579
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,680
So let's imagine what it was 
like for both Agon and the iron 

580
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,120
and we talked about what the 
stories were like for the River 

581
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Lords after it, but they were 
just observers. 

582
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,200
They were like, wow, this is 
incredible. 

583
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,000
But some of it would have been 
hard to see right because they 

584
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,280
the quote begins when no dragon 
appeared. 

585
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,560
Some may have thought agon 
threats have been hollow, but 

586
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,820
what did he say? 
He said when the sunsets your 

587
00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:08,380
line shall end and then he flew 
really, really high up there, 

588
00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:10,860
really high up there. 
And at that part I don't quite 

589
00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:14,340
understand like why did he fly 
so so high just to make a point,

590
00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:16,860
just cuz he liked it. 
I mean we hear later that he 

591
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:19,540
only flies when he when he needs
to, so he's not someone that 

592
00:30:19,540 --> 00:30:22,620
apparently enjoyed flying. 
So I'm real curious about that 

593
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:26,140
and just speaks to the the many 
questions about Aegon's 

594
00:30:26,140 --> 00:30:29,610
personality like. 
I think he's just trying to get 

595
00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:31,010
out of sight. 
I think he's trying to get high 

596
00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:33,410
enough that he could be 
identified in the night sky 

597
00:30:33,410 --> 00:30:35,170
anymore. 
That's possible, but it was so 

598
00:30:35,170 --> 00:30:37,730
dark already, you know, Like, I 
wonder, could they have seen him

599
00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:38,690
anyway? 
I don't know. 

600
00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:43,370
Maybe. 
Especially because depending on 

601
00:30:43,370 --> 00:30:47,210
where he starts flying up right,
they can see him and he gets 

602
00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:49,570
harder and harder. 
It's harder quite identify where

603
00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:52,170
he is in the night sky and then 
he moves over. 

604
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:55,100
When people can't tell that he's
moved over and starts coming 

605
00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:57,140
down straight from above. 
So imagine people are like 

606
00:30:57,500 --> 00:31:00,940
looking out toward the West, 
waiting for him to come back. 

607
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:03,180
He's he's behind him, but they 
don't know that because he went 

608
00:31:03,180 --> 00:31:05,580
up so high, they can't see him. 
That's what I'm assuming. 

609
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:06,620
I don't know. 
But that's what I'm assuming 

610
00:31:06,620 --> 00:31:08,620
they could have expected him 
from the West and then he struck

611
00:31:08,620 --> 00:31:11,260
from the east and the castle so 
big left a lot of Archers and 

612
00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:14,780
spearmen and crossbowmen facing 
one way and then they don't even

613
00:31:14,780 --> 00:31:18,300
know because it's this big black
shadow at night. 

614
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:19,500
Like the how. 
Yeah, they're not going to see 

615
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,210
that coming. 
And even if they're looking in 

616
00:31:22,210 --> 00:31:26,130
different ways, like if he takes
off even slightly to the West 

617
00:31:26,130 --> 00:31:28,290
and they're looking off that 
way, and then he's just kind of 

618
00:31:28,290 --> 00:31:31,250
disappeared in the night and 
they can't see him anymore, they

619
00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:33,530
might even think he might come 
from any direction. 

620
00:31:33,530 --> 00:31:36,650
So everyone is looking outward 
around the castle walls, but 

621
00:31:36,650 --> 00:31:39,090
he's coming down right in the 
middle where no one is looking. 

622
00:31:39,090 --> 00:31:40,370
Yeah, he doesn't want to take 
any chances. 

623
00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:42,090
Maybe like, it's one thing for 
us to sit there and say, how 

624
00:31:42,090 --> 00:31:43,730
could they see him? 
He doesn't need to go that high,

625
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:44,810
but he doesn't know that for 
sure. 

626
00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:47,860
I suppose maybe he just wants to
be absolutely certain they can't

627
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:49,300
see him and get really high up 
there. 

628
00:31:49,540 --> 00:31:51,940
Either way, it's a neat detail. 
I'm like, Oh yeah, he's like, 

629
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:54,580
it's there's probably some 
symbolism here that I'm missing.

630
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:57,140
Like he just gets really high 
above them and then just dive 

631
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:58,740
bombs. 
And I don't know. 

632
00:31:59,740 --> 00:32:02,300
Everything we've said, we've 
said about him and talked about 

633
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,260
him expresses confidence. 
So he knew he would win and he 

634
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:08,860
may have even known how, but he 
had never done this before. 

635
00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:13,300
He had assaulted small castles 
and not didn't have to really go

636
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:18,020
all out before they surrendered.
So I mean, he got up against 

637
00:32:18,020 --> 00:32:21,180
ships before, but those were 
probably easier, you know, in a 

638
00:32:21,180 --> 00:32:23,140
lot of ways. 
Like those are moving, like on 

639
00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:26,060
one hand they burn more easily, 
but they're a moving target, 

640
00:32:26,780 --> 00:32:28,540
whereas a castle obviously is 
not. 

641
00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:32,420
Unless it's. 
Unless it's Gray water. 

642
00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:33,420
Watch right. 
Okay. 

643
00:32:33,740 --> 00:32:35,700
I stand corrected. 
All right, very good. 

644
00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:42,790
So and his strategy he's also a 
little bit of a little bit of 

645
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:45,910
turnabout is fair play because 
what did what did Heron's sons 

646
00:32:45,910 --> 00:32:47,950
do to him when he was on the 
March they attacked at night 

647
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:50,990
right that the battle of Wailing
willows. 

648
00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:54,630
I almost said widows again and 
he's like 2 can play at that 

649
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:59,750
game and well 2 meaning a dragon
and a dragon rider and the both 

650
00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:04,710
of us kings can play at that 
game and he says it says Heron 

651
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:06,830
encouraged his men. 
He's like, all right, y'all you 

652
00:33:06,830 --> 00:33:10,750
know, anyone who brings down the
dragon or the dragon Rider can 

653
00:33:11,070 --> 00:33:17,990
can have this daughters of 
Strong or Blackwood or Tully. 

654
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:21,950
He's or all of them if you want.
So he's really just you want 

655
00:33:21,950 --> 00:33:24,310
five daughters to wife, you can 
have that. 

656
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:26,710
Now these are Ironborn, so 
that's kind of already normalish

657
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:29,590
for them. 
Rock wives, salt wives, they 

658
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:32,430
already kind of do that. 
And just because he was brutal 

659
00:33:32,430 --> 00:33:35,400
to his subjects doesn't mean he 
wasn't an effective leader in 

660
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,960
combat. 
Like these two things can 

661
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,520
coexist. 
He he projected confidence. 

662
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,160
It may have been foolish 
confidence, it may have been 

663
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,760
more in the bravado category 
than confidence, but either way 

664
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,280
his men would have a lot of them
would have followed along. 

665
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,120
It's pretty weak though, 
obviously. 

666
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,360
Come to me. 
This is like building a bomb 

667
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,600
shelter like you said, Sean. 
There's probably these tunnels 

668
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,880
underground. 
If not tunnels chambers that 

669
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,040
they could that wouldn't burn. 
You know this is like standing 

670
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,240
on the roof of your bomb 
shelter. 

671
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,360
Like you've got a good shelter 
to hang out in but you stand on 

672
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,440
the roof of it while the bombs 
are dropping instead. 

673
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,679
No, you need to get inside. 
And he was inside sort of inside

674
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,000
the towers but does obviously 
were insufficient. 

675
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,199
So he. 
Yeah. 

676
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,280
So like you said Sean he he 
seemed to really truly believe 

677
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,400
they could bring the dragon 
down. 

678
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,280
Like it only takes 1 error one 
crossbow bolt in the right spot.

679
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,650
So I can kind of see, yeah, like
one like you're not bringing 

680
00:34:28,650 --> 00:34:32,170
that dragon down. 
If he saw Bellerian from the 

681
00:34:32,170 --> 00:34:34,570
parlay look down over his walls 
and saw that dragon, he's like, 

682
00:34:34,570 --> 00:34:37,290
OK, we might not be able to 
bring that down with Spears and 

683
00:34:37,290 --> 00:34:40,010
arrows, but that rider, come on,
it's just one guy, right? 

684
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:42,370
We can surely shoot him down. 
He's proud. 

685
00:34:42,370 --> 00:34:43,969
Like you said, he probably has 
thousands of men. 

686
00:34:44,170 --> 00:34:46,690
They're all up on the walls with
their weapons. 

687
00:34:46,969 --> 00:34:50,610
It only takes 1 lucky shot which
he gone knew that too. 

688
00:34:50,610 --> 00:34:53,449
Which is why he attacked at 
night when their aim would be 

689
00:34:53,449 --> 00:34:55,150
off. 
And all they're doing is aiming 

690
00:34:55,150 --> 00:34:57,790
at this giant black. 
It's just a BLOB of shadow 

691
00:34:57,790 --> 00:35:00,750
they're aiming at. 
They can't distinguish the where

692
00:35:00,750 --> 00:35:03,870
he is on its back, it's he's 
there somewhere. 

693
00:35:04,110 --> 00:35:04,990
But they can't. 
They're not. 

694
00:35:04,990 --> 00:35:07,470
They're not even aiming at him, 
they're just aiming in his 

695
00:35:07,470 --> 00:35:10,950
general direction, like where 
the shadow is. 

696
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:12,750
They fired a shadow because 
they're not actually seeing 

697
00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:15,190
anything. 
They're just seeing nothing. 

698
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:17,990
Like there were there should be 
stars there, but there's not. 

699
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:20,590
So the dragon must be there. 
Oh, there's some flames shooting

700
00:35:20,590 --> 00:35:22,190
out there he is for a few 
seconds. 

701
00:35:23,310 --> 00:35:27,300
But like Sean picture when he's 
attacking the towers. 

702
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:29,140
So there's five of these giant 
towers. 

703
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:32,940
The towers don't have guards 
standing on them shooting back. 

704
00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:34,860
Those towers weren't designed 
for defense. 

705
00:35:34,860 --> 00:35:37,540
They're designed for 
observation, for gazing out 

706
00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:41,580
across his lands. 
They don't have like, no one 

707
00:35:41,580 --> 00:35:44,260
expects men to be up there to 
fight against. 

708
00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:47,100
They're like hundreds and 
hundreds of like the the top of 

709
00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:51,370
the high tower doesn't have, 
like have arrow slit to shoot 

710
00:35:51,370 --> 00:35:54,770
down like it's hundreds of feet.
No one would be up there. 

711
00:35:54,970 --> 00:35:56,610
So they're just didn't prepare 
for this. 

712
00:35:56,610 --> 00:35:59,770
So yeah, so he's up there 
breathing fire on the towers and

713
00:35:59,770 --> 00:36:03,930
they can't even launch an arrow 
at him because there's no one up

714
00:36:03,930 --> 00:36:06,130
there. 
Like they're all down on the 

715
00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:08,490
walls. 
Like, this was very poorly 

716
00:36:08,490 --> 00:36:11,850
thought through, but what? 
Could they have done even if 

717
00:36:11,850 --> 00:36:14,170
there were, even if there were 
people up there with arrows? 

718
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,000
There again that the windows are
looking out and down, not up. 

719
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,680
They can't see up at this dragon
coming down at them and might be

720
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,560
blinded by the fire at the 
moment. 

721
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:30,720
Then they got into range and I I
wonder too if Heron even was an 

722
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,760
angle in his head he was 
considering. 

723
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:36,060
Especially if you didn't think 
the dragon could actually burn 

724
00:36:36,060 --> 00:36:39,100
the towers, burn the stone that 
it might strafe by, It might 

725
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:40,660
kill some people. 
It might get hot. 

726
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:43,300
Let's hide below. 
He'll burn our grain up, but he 

727
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:46,020
still might not have anticipated
that it would actually melt 

728
00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:48,580
through the stone. 
And what he might have 

729
00:36:48,580 --> 00:36:50,980
anticipated was the dragon would
just get tired. 

730
00:36:50,980 --> 00:36:53,020
Yeah, right. 
Just run out of flame. 

731
00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:54,700
It's tired of flying. 
It needs the land. 

732
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:57,300
The dragon riders thirsty. 
It's higher than the stone. 

733
00:36:57,980 --> 00:37:00,620
No, he might not have thought. 
He might have thought kind of 

734
00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:03,620
like an army siegeing that this 
is going to be a. 

735
00:37:03,820 --> 00:37:07,540
That takes weeks, maybe, and 
it's slowly the people start to 

736
00:37:07,540 --> 00:37:09,820
run out of food and run out of 
morale. 

737
00:37:09,820 --> 00:37:12,740
Slowly the dragon starts to run 
out of Ng and his flames just 

738
00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:14,900
aren't working. 
And then Aegon would give up. 

739
00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:18,260
You just didn't anticipate No. 
One night he'll just burn it 

740
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:19,700
down. 
Yeah, I totally agree with that.

741
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:21,740
That's a great estimation there,
Sean, Because, yeah, like I 

742
00:37:21,740 --> 00:37:26,220
wrote that in our notes, like, 
how long can Blair do this? 

743
00:37:26,220 --> 00:37:28,660
He burned all five of those 
massive towers, plus other 

744
00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:31,620
spots. 
Like, how much flame can this 

745
00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:35,090
dragon do? 
Generate apparently huge 

746
00:37:35,090 --> 00:37:36,170
amounts? 
Yeah, it would have been more 

747
00:37:36,170 --> 00:37:37,770
than we would have guessed. 
I think. 

748
00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:41,450
Like, is there something, some 
sort of food that stimulates 

749
00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:41,890
this? 
Is he? 

750
00:37:41,890 --> 00:37:45,810
Did he pause and flat back down 
to the ground, eat a quick or 

751
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:48,090
ox, and then fly back up? 
Yeah. 

752
00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:49,970
For all we know, Heron was 
planning a counterattack. 

753
00:37:49,970 --> 00:37:54,090
He's like, once that Dragon's 
tired, once it lands, we rush 

754
00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:57,730
out of our many gates because 
they have many gates, and attack

755
00:37:57,730 --> 00:38:01,020
them from a bunch of directions 
and they're unprepared. 

756
00:38:01,020 --> 00:38:03,460
Maybe it's a morning assault. 
Maybe as soon as dawn breaks, 

757
00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:06,780
they're not ready for that. 
Maybe they're overconfident, I 

758
00:38:06,780 --> 00:38:07,860
don't know. 
But yeah, they could have 

759
00:38:07,860 --> 00:38:09,540
prepared for something like 
that, a counterattack. 

760
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:12,820
I agree. 
I mean, Heron clearly expected 

761
00:38:13,140 --> 00:38:15,580
some things to work out, and 
he's not a dummy. 

762
00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:18,100
As, as brutal and tyrannical as 
he was, he wouldn't have gotten 

763
00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:22,180
this far by being stupid, At 
least by being stupid about 

764
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:24,700
everything. 
He may be stupid when it comes 

765
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:28,370
to Dragons, but yeah, and we 
wonder if he had other. 

766
00:38:28,370 --> 00:38:31,090
And to be fair, it's not like 
he's stupid and everyone else is

767
00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:33,610
smart. 
Yeah, no one really quite knew. 

768
00:38:33,690 --> 00:38:36,090
We don't even know how well 
Aegon knew that. 

769
00:38:36,090 --> 00:38:37,970
What? 
Yeah, this may have worked out 

770
00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:40,010
better than you guys. 
Like, yeah, this is going great.

771
00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:42,090
I didn't realize I could just 
take these whole entire he's 

772
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:43,930
like, wow, look at that. 
The stones cracking. 

773
00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:45,690
Awesome. 
But he may have done his 

774
00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:48,490
research. 
He may have looked up past. 

775
00:38:49,290 --> 00:38:55,450
You know how do how did Valeria 
in its many many wars in the the

776
00:38:55,650 --> 00:38:59,050
prior eons, How did it? 
They probably have treatises on 

777
00:38:59,090 --> 00:39:02,170
military strategy and how to use
Dragons effectively and taking 

778
00:39:02,170 --> 00:39:04,370
castles. 
What type of castle is it? 

779
00:39:04,370 --> 00:39:07,250
How large is it? 
Is it like Giscari castles, 

780
00:39:07,290 --> 00:39:10,690
Giscari fortresses? 
They had 5-6 wars against the 

781
00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:12,050
Giscari. 
I think 5 wars against the 

782
00:39:12,050 --> 00:39:14,650
Giscari. 
The Giscari had castles and 

783
00:39:14,650 --> 00:39:17,370
fortresses and the Valerians had
Dragons so they would have. 

784
00:39:17,370 --> 00:39:20,840
This would have been a kind of a
standard thing, both how the 

785
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,480
Giscari defend against Dragons 
and how the Valyrians react to 

786
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,680
those defenses. 
And and yeah, they would have 

787
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,400
been written about and military 
history textbooks and military 

788
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,320
strategy books and. 
Some of that writing might have 

789
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,680
been lost, though. 
Some of it, yeah. 

790
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,760
You're right. 
I think I might have had to 

791
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,560
relearn some of this on his own.
That's true. 

792
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,760
Some of there may not be like a 
vast library of these things. 

793
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,150
I believe we see some of that in
real briefly in in Pentos and 

794
00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:47,110
House of the Dragon. 
Damon is reading some books of 

795
00:39:47,110 --> 00:39:49,830
that of that nature kind of got 
me thinking about that. 

796
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:52,630
Some of y'all as well, I'm sure.
I love that idea. 

797
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:55,190
It's like, you know, it's just a
random scene from the TV show, 

798
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:57,590
but surely there are libraries 
like that in the in the in the 

799
00:39:57,590 --> 00:40:01,350
world, you know? 
I I say it later in the 

800
00:40:01,350 --> 00:40:05,150
document, but it seems relevant 
enough here that I think he 

801
00:40:05,150 --> 00:40:07,630
probably did test blurion out in
a few ways. 

802
00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:11,310
Like I I bet he. 
Breathe on that stone there. 

803
00:40:11,310 --> 00:40:13,750
Let's see what happens. 
Yeah, yeah, just some rock 

804
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:16,310
quarry, some, some seaside Cliff
face. 

805
00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:19,430
You just, like flew up told 
Blair and Jakarus. 

806
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:22,350
How hot can it get? 
Will it melt this rock? 

807
00:40:22,350 --> 00:40:25,750
You know, maybe even. 
Where did they get the rock to 

808
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:29,790
build Heron Hall? 
Go to that quarry with Blair and

809
00:40:30,070 --> 00:40:31,630
see how hot it can get, you 
know? 

810
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:34,710
I like that idea kind of like 
it's it's almost like a trope. 

811
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:37,270
It's I don't, I don't even mean 
to be comedic about this, but 

812
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:40,980
like, you know, someone gets the
new car, Tom Cruise is in his 

813
00:40:40,980 --> 00:40:43,180
new fighter jet or what? 
Let's see what this baby can. 

814
00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:47,020
Do you know like push the speed 
that you can hit and like test 

815
00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:48,900
the heat of the flame? 
How much? 

816
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:50,980
How hot, How long can Blarion 
go? 

817
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:55,150
It makes a lot of sense to me. 
The Aegon would have no one is 

818
00:40:55,150 --> 00:40:57,910
dragging well enough. 
Tested this out, he's everything

819
00:40:57,910 --> 00:41:01,030
else seems very well calculated 
and planned and under control. 

820
00:41:01,390 --> 00:41:05,150
Why would this thing not also 
have been something he was very?

821
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:05,870
Familiar point? 
Yeah. 

822
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:06,710
Why not test it? 
Yeah. 

823
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:08,150
What's his capacity? 
What's what? 

824
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:11,350
What? 
What can Valerian's flame do? 

825
00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:13,310
Who tested to its to its 
extremes? 

826
00:41:14,110 --> 00:41:17,790
So he had his family there. 
Heron, not Aegon now. 

827
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,000
Meaning his remaining sons. 
We don't know about the rest of 

828
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,640
his family, whether he had 
Queens there or a queen, or if 

829
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,360
she was on the Iron Islands, or 
if she had already died or if 

830
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,480
there were multiples. 
And this is a big open question.

831
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,040
He didn't have any daughters of 
his own, as we said, because he 

832
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,800
was offering, you know, other 
daughters. 

833
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,960
And he said if I had any of my 
own, you could marry them. 

834
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,800
He did have at least one great 
aunt, because we know they 

835
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,280
married into the House of Old 
Mark. 

836
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,240
This is an argument used on 
behalf of. 

837
00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:51,290
Young young Marin Valmark after 
Baylon's death, so many hundreds

838
00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:52,730
of years later, meaning Baylon 
Greyjoy. 

839
00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:56,930
So this is obviously centuries 
later, but that apparently is 

840
00:41:56,930 --> 00:42:01,530
remembered and cited. 
So it's it's relevant now. 

841
00:42:02,490 --> 00:42:07,010
Yeah, if Heron's sons probably 
were old enough to fight, which 

842
00:42:07,010 --> 00:42:08,410
is why they died in those 
towers. 

843
00:42:08,410 --> 00:42:11,050
But maybe because otherwise 
maybe they would have been sent 

844
00:42:11,050 --> 00:42:15,690
to safety, not necessarily away 
from the castle safety, but down

845
00:42:15,690 --> 00:42:18,210
in. 
The vaults or what have you. 

846
00:42:19,490 --> 00:42:21,770
Now Iron men are are typically 
more comfortable fighting the 

847
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:23,650
deck of a ship. 
This is what we're told than 

848
00:42:23,650 --> 00:42:25,130
elsewhere. 
But recall these are kind of a 

849
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:27,290
new breed of Ironman now. 
After this they go back to the 

850
00:42:27,290 --> 00:42:30,010
old breed because they're kicked
back to the Iron Islands. 

851
00:42:30,330 --> 00:42:36,130
But this is 100 years of land 
based iron born ruling the river

852
00:42:36,130 --> 00:42:39,330
lands. 
So sure, there's still lots of 

853
00:42:39,330 --> 00:42:43,010
sailors and Raiders and pirates 
back on the Iron Islands proper.

854
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,600
But in Heron's inner circle and 
in Heron Hall and in the 

855
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,920
Riverlands, there would have 
been land lubber types that 

856
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,040
maybe wouldn't have done a lot 
of sailing in their lifetime. 

857
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,000
So yes, they're Ironborn, but 
yeah, these are it's relates to 

858
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,680
that trivia question I gave when
the Vikings started conquering 

859
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,880
and had they see the kind of 
cease to be Vikings at that 

860
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,400
point Because that's not really,
you know, that's a that's sort 

861
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,240
of a description of what they're
doing and not really. 

862
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:16,490
It's not like a. 
Title and so when you're ruling 

863
00:43:16,490 --> 00:43:19,450
over people you you're you're 
handling things differently. 

864
00:43:19,450 --> 00:43:20,930
You're not out there raiding and
reeving. 

865
00:43:20,930 --> 00:43:25,930
You're you're garrisoning and 
and defending borders and things

866
00:43:25,930 --> 00:43:27,970
like that and and expanding 
borders maybe. 

867
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:30,490
But raids don't. 
That might be a part of your 

868
00:43:30,490 --> 00:43:33,370
playbook to weaken and and 
spread your enemies thin but 

869
00:43:33,370 --> 00:43:37,210
it's it's not what your entire 
people do from now. 

870
00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:38,770
It's not your main thing 
anymore. 

871
00:43:38,770 --> 00:43:41,850
So it's been it's been 100 years
of this, so. 

872
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,560
It's a different group of 
people. 

873
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,360
They might be more accustomed to
fighting in castles, maybe not 

874
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,160
defending them though. 
Attacking them. 

875
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,120
Yeah, like Heron would have. 
It's a lot of taking over the 

876
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,800
hair of the Riverlands, even 
though that was done by his 

877
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,360
ancestors, not by him. 
So this is, again, there's a lot

878
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,480
of things about the scenario 
that says these are a different 

879
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,480
group of Ironborn than what we 
might be used to. 

880
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,800
That said, Heron did still rule 
the iron, the Iron Isles. 

881
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,240
They were still part of his 
Kingdom. 

882
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:11,830
He would have drawn soldiers and
sailors from there, and some of 

883
00:44:11,830 --> 00:44:14,710
them would have probably been at
Aaron Hall and died alongside 

884
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:15,910
him. 
He might have been able to trust

885
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:18,430
them more than a lot of the 
Riverland, especially after he 

886
00:44:18,430 --> 00:44:20,710
called his banners and very few 
of them showed up. 

887
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:24,150
But we're told the Riverlands 
turned to Agon that there's 

888
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:26,670
nothing about the Ironborn going
over to Agon. 

889
00:44:26,670 --> 00:44:29,110
In fact, we see that they resist
him when he does come to the 

890
00:44:29,110 --> 00:44:31,910
Iron Isles later. 
That's obviously in the future 

891
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:37,300
of our coverage here. 
But I got to think some Ironborn

892
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:39,260
showed up for him even though 
the River Lords didn't. 

893
00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:44,140
It isn't mentioned, but I kind 
of assume it's true. 

894
00:44:44,140 --> 00:44:45,460
Maybe some of Y'all have 
different takes. 

895
00:44:45,460 --> 00:44:48,140
Maybe they also took this 
opportunity to abandon him 

896
00:44:48,140 --> 00:44:52,820
because he was a land guy and 
they're like, no, we don't like 

897
00:44:53,420 --> 00:44:54,820
his Dimes. 
I mean, he was, he probably 

898
00:44:54,820 --> 00:44:57,950
wasn't very nice to them either,
you know, I mean they might have

899
00:44:57,950 --> 00:44:59,710
just not had enough time to get 
there. 

900
00:44:59,910 --> 00:45:03,510
On the point that he calls them,
they decide to go pack up their 

901
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:07,670
stuff, get on a ship take the 
ship across the what, is there a

902
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:10,270
river that leads there? 
Like, I don't, I don't like, I 

903
00:45:10,270 --> 00:45:11,670
don't think they can get there 
in three days. 

904
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:13,070
Yeah. 
You know, I think it's going to 

905
00:45:13,070 --> 00:45:16,870
be, I don't know how long they 
had, but I think even if they 

906
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:20,820
had enough time, they also have 
to like get through enemy forces

907
00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:23,100
that are sort of 8000 troops 
that are surrounding air. 

908
00:45:23,340 --> 00:45:24,580
And that might be why there's so
few. 

909
00:45:24,580 --> 00:45:27,300
Maybe that's part of like a 
something in between the lines 

910
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:29,620
here that we can we can 
extrapolate is that maybe. 

911
00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:31,580
Yeah. 
Like the Malisters who their 

912
00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:33,740
whole purpose for existing is to
fight Ironborn every they're 

913
00:45:33,740 --> 00:45:36,420
like, yay, there might have been
one of the first to flip the 

914
00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:38,860
agon. 
They immediately said we're 

915
00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:40,700
going to not send a lot of 
troops over here. 

916
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:44,220
We're going to defend the coasts
against the inevitable ironborn 

917
00:45:44,220 --> 00:45:47,180
reckoning that comes from this. 
And they Once they're unleashed,

918
00:45:47,700 --> 00:45:50,160
we better be ready for it. 
And that would be that would be 

919
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,400
a compelling argument and a lot 
of people would be up for that. 

920
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,480
And so it wouldn't be like Agon 
couldn't say no. 

921
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,800
They'd tell him that's what 
they've done once they show up. 

922
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,560
Like, hey, we left men back 
there to fight against the iron 

923
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,600
bore and he would probably say 
okay. 

924
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,040
Good choice, I guess. 
You know and and it probably is 

925
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,320
a good choice. 
Didn't need your men anyway. 

926
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:08,120
Yeah, I didn't need your men. 
It's true. 

927
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:14,650
I totally did this myself and. 
So it totally shows how helpless

928
00:46:14,650 --> 00:46:16,890
conventional weapons are. 
There's a lot of lessons here, 

929
00:46:17,010 --> 00:46:20,650
not just the lesson of what a 
dragon can do, what this dragon 

930
00:46:20,650 --> 00:46:25,570
can do, what loyalty can mean, 
like what happens when you roll 

931
00:46:25,570 --> 00:46:27,930
people wrong and they get a 
chance to switch sides. 

932
00:46:28,170 --> 00:46:31,810
So many lessons, lessons that 
are play out in the short term. 

933
00:46:31,810 --> 00:46:34,450
Lessons that play out in the 
long term, like, obviously 

934
00:46:34,450 --> 00:46:35,610
Harren Hall. 
We'll talk about this in a 

935
00:46:35,810 --> 00:46:37,850
little bit later in the 
second-half of the episode. 

936
00:46:38,410 --> 00:46:42,090
How much of A testament Harren 
Hall still is to this day? 

937
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:47,600
How quotes about it still refer 
to Heron's folly and heron's 

938
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,880
ghost and his sons. 
And it's still a lesson to this 

939
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,120
day that the the context of the 
lesson has changed over time. 

940
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,440
Maybe it's less more symbol of 
less lesson, but it's still 300 

941
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,280
years later has that impact. 
Which is why I think it's just 

942
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,920
so clever of George to write it 
this way and of Agon to think 

943
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,080
about it this way and be like, 
you know what? 

944
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,280
If I do this right, this is 
something. 

945
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:15,000
That will last for a long time. 
As a symbol of draconic power, 

946
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,720
as a symbol of my house, as a 
symbol of a lot of things. 

947
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,000
And that's just really neat, the
way George mashed so many things

948
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,320
into this, this one episode. 
You know, I wish I had done 

949
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,800
maybe a little bit more tooling 
around with this, but I I, you 

950
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,680
know, just prepping for this, 
trying to do some research. 

951
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,880
I use a search environment, a 
search of Ice and Fire search 

952
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,870
for Heron Hall. 
There's a lot of but I don't 

953
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:40,270
even yeah, I don't even think I 
I think I only searched certain 

954
00:47:40,270 --> 00:47:41,750
books. 
You know, I don't even think I 

955
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:44,550
did like a full search and it 
was, I don't know, 400 plus 

956
00:47:44,590 --> 00:47:47,430
results like this is a lot. 
I think has to narrow my search 

957
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:48,910
down. 
It's a lot to go through. 

958
00:47:49,110 --> 00:47:51,310
But point is that that's how 
much it comes up through the 

959
00:47:51,310 --> 00:47:53,630
course of the story. 
Yeah, it's it's the in the top 

960
00:47:53,630 --> 00:47:57,310
four most popular locations for 
chapters to take place in. 

961
00:47:57,310 --> 00:48:00,110
There's King's Landing, which 
really is the Red Keep because 

962
00:48:00,110 --> 00:48:02,390
it's very little happens outside
of the Red Keep in terms of. 

963
00:48:02,780 --> 00:48:04,340
POV chapters. 
They're definitely some, but 

964
00:48:04,340 --> 00:48:06,140
most of them are inside the 
walls of the Red Keep, 

965
00:48:06,860 --> 00:48:10,700
Winterfell, Castle Black, and 
Heron Hall. 

966
00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:13,380
Those are the ones I don't. 
I'm not saying that's the order,

967
00:48:13,620 --> 00:48:15,860
but those are the top 4. 
I'm not even sure what 5th would

968
00:48:15,860 --> 00:48:18,940
be. 
Yeah, I really don't know. 

969
00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:22,620
I'd have to think about that to 
be clear, though. 

970
00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:26,260
Like a lot of the results for 
Heron Hall, you know when I I 

971
00:48:26,620 --> 00:48:28,940
before I wised up to how long it
was going to take me to go 

972
00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:32,530
through 400 of them, it wasn't 
all inside of Heron Halls. 

973
00:48:32,570 --> 00:48:34,650
People outside Heron Hall talk 
just sometimes. 

974
00:48:34,650 --> 00:48:37,050
They talk about going to it or 
coming from it or whatever, but.

975
00:48:37,170 --> 00:48:38,610
Yeah. 
As a strategy point, you know, 

976
00:48:38,610 --> 00:48:41,010
when they're discussing like the
war and all that, yeah. 

977
00:48:42,530 --> 00:48:44,170
Comes up a lot. 
They're very true. 

978
00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:47,650
And yeah, and so that's part. 
And again, why I think George 

979
00:48:47,650 --> 00:48:50,130
took extra care here because he 
knows this is everything that's 

980
00:48:50,130 --> 00:48:53,490
happens in during Edgan's 
conquest visa vie Heron Hall. 

981
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:56,910
It's going to ring forward and 
and be relevant to the story in 

982
00:48:56,910 --> 00:48:59,590
ways that sure, some of the 
other parts of Agon's conquest 

983
00:48:59,590 --> 00:49:04,550
are as well, but maybe maybe a 
little less so now. 

984
00:49:04,550 --> 00:49:09,230
Also, the darkness that they're 
finding themselves in is going 

985
00:49:09,230 --> 00:49:11,790
to work better for Agon, and 
certainly the guys who are 

986
00:49:11,790 --> 00:49:14,790
trying to take aim and fire at 
some large black shape that's 

987
00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:17,430
heavily, heavily armored. 
The scales of blaring are so 

988
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:19,830
thick that even if you get a 
good shot off. 

989
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,200
It's probably just going to 
bounce off of him and he's not 

990
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,520
even going to feel it. 
And if you happen to get a lucky

991
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,960
shot, I mean it feel, what does 
a crossbow bolt feel like to a 

992
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,800
dragon that size like a splinter
to us? 

993
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:34,080
I mean, it would bother you, but
it is absolutely not taking you 

994
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,800
out of the fight. 
It might make you madder, it 

995
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,320
might make you go harder, but it
is definitely not disabling at 

996
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:46,360
any in any by any means. 
And and the fire itself, it's 

997
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,410
described as black fire. 
With shots of red through it, 

998
00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:52,890
which is how we know Balerian 
has some red on him because the 

999
00:49:52,890 --> 00:49:58,130
Dragons have that coloration. 
And yeah that's really that's 

1000
00:49:58,130 --> 00:50:00,130
that's just extra level of 
terror. 

1001
00:50:00,370 --> 00:50:03,090
Like what is this fire? 
This isn't even real. 

1002
00:50:03,090 --> 00:50:04,650
This isn't even natural looking 
fire. 

1003
00:50:04,650 --> 00:50:07,810
What's going on here? 
Now once it catches flame like 

1004
00:50:07,810 --> 00:50:10,610
once the grain and wood catches 
fire, that's going to look like 

1005
00:50:10,610 --> 00:50:14,090
normal flame because that's the 
fuel is the wood and the not the

1006
00:50:14,090 --> 00:50:18,920
Dragons gullet or whatever. 
But which would increase both 

1007
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,280
their night blindness Cuz 
there's burning fire near them 

1008
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,440
and give Agon in a easier time 
of picking his targets going 

1009
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,720
forward. 
Cuz it's like he's looking down 

1010
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,240
on a bunch of fires and they're 
close to those fires. 

1011
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:34,840
Like being blinded by it and not
able to see very well even 

1012
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,800
before Balerian start setting 
things on fire. 

1013
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,400
That's already a dynamic, right?
They're already they're going to

1014
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,560
be torches and candles in the 
castle, which means from way far

1015
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,920
away, Balerian and Agon can see 
right where the castle is and 

1016
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,080
the people with the torches and 
candles near them. 

1017
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,480
Their eyes aren't adjusted to 
the darkness far away, so. 

1018
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,000
Imagine the temptation to just 
run away like you're on the 

1019
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,920
walls with your crossbow or your
Longbow or some Spears or 

1020
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,650
whatever, and it's dark. 
And everyone's screaming and 

1021
00:51:02,650 --> 00:51:04,810
you're like it's dark. 
I could maybe just get out of 

1022
00:51:04,810 --> 00:51:10,250
here, you know I could fall down
like would you like break your 

1023
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:12,930
arm on purpose to be like yes. 
See I couldn't do it. 

1024
00:51:12,930 --> 00:51:15,530
I just I was out of it. 
You know like that way you can't

1025
00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:19,490
get no one can call you a coward
because yeah I fell off the wall

1026
00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:23,770
and you know it would have been 
really like they'd be like what 

1027
00:51:23,770 --> 00:51:26,450
the seven Hell's is going on 
here How is how are we doing 

1028
00:51:26,450 --> 00:51:30,090
nothing to this dragon like he 
told us we could and it's just 

1029
00:51:30,090 --> 00:51:32,660
going downhill. 
Darkness Fire. 

1030
00:51:32,660 --> 00:51:35,060
It really would be like hell 
because like, you're thinking of

1031
00:51:35,060 --> 00:51:36,740
seven hell. 
Is it really like it's darkness 

1032
00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:39,780
fire? 
A demonic being swooping in 

1033
00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:42,860
above them over and over and no 
means to stop it. 

1034
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:47,260
Some of them would probably 
would maybe finally go this dumb

1035
00:51:47,260 --> 00:51:49,340
king. 
What'd he do getting us mixed up

1036
00:51:49,340 --> 00:51:50,900
in this? 
Why didn't he just bend the 

1037
00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:54,620
knee? 
But many of them would be too 

1038
00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:57,620
busy screaming and running to be
having thoughts like that. 

1039
00:51:57,740 --> 00:51:59,220
What about Aegon? 
What about? 

1040
00:51:59,220 --> 00:52:00,980
What's he thinking? 
Again, this, our lack of 

1041
00:52:00,980 --> 00:52:03,060
understanding of his personality
makes this difficult. 

1042
00:52:03,060 --> 00:52:05,780
He didn't love to fly. 
He didn't do it as a leisure 

1043
00:52:05,780 --> 00:52:07,620
activity. 
That doesn't mean this wasn't 

1044
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:11,780
exhilarating, though. 
You know, just so being so 

1045
00:52:11,780 --> 00:52:14,140
dominant, being so powerful, 
being able to kill all these 

1046
00:52:14,140 --> 00:52:16,780
people, being able to destroy 
this castle that took 40 years 

1047
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:18,500
to make it. 
Thousands and thousands and 

1048
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:21,660
thousands of people built it and
he's just taking it down. 

1049
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:25,790
By himself, with his. 
With his dragon that's bonded to

1050
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:26,990
him. 
No one else could do this. 

1051
00:52:26,990 --> 00:52:29,150
He's the only person in the 
world perhaps that could do this

1052
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:30,390
because I don't think. 
I don't think Veigar and 

1053
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:32,950
Moracki's his flames were hot 
enough to do this as we've 

1054
00:52:33,150 --> 00:52:37,790
guessed at before. 
What like how does it like? 

1055
00:52:38,110 --> 00:52:41,710
He may have already had a lot of
power gone to his head but maybe

1056
00:52:41,710 --> 00:52:44,750
even more right at this moment 
when he's just he was already 

1057
00:52:44,750 --> 00:52:46,710
confident. 
But now he's in the moment he's 

1058
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:49,630
seeing it all play out. 
It's going perfectly, you know, 

1059
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:53,540
and. 
It just proves everything he 

1060
00:52:53,540 --> 00:52:56,580
expected and it's all going the 
way that he wanted to. 

1061
00:52:56,580 --> 00:53:00,180
And it's the lessons he's 
wanting to teach, the examples 

1062
00:53:00,180 --> 00:53:02,260
he's wanting to set. 
Everything's playing out pretty 

1063
00:53:02,260 --> 00:53:04,260
much exactly the way he wanted 
to. 

1064
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:07,180
So I wonder what's going through
his head. 

1065
00:53:07,180 --> 00:53:10,140
He's like, all right, the plan, 
everything is falling into place

1066
00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:12,260
like Hannibal, you know, 
Hannibal from the A-Team. 

1067
00:53:12,260 --> 00:53:14,580
Like, I never love it when a 
plan falls together. 

1068
00:53:14,580 --> 00:53:19,740
Or is he just like, burn you 
stupid ironborn? 

1069
00:53:19,740 --> 00:53:23,880
Or is he just like all right? 
This is proceeding is according 

1070
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,600
to plan. 
OK, let's see. 

1071
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,680
Checks his watch. 
Like now I move on to the next 

1072
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,160
tower. 
You know this is this is hot 

1073
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,000
enough. 
You know like what's going 

1074
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:31,400
through his head? 
I. 

1075
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,920
Think he feels the tragedy and 
all the lives that didn't need 

1076
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,640
to be lost over that? 
Yeah, he disappointed. 

1077
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,960
Yeah, is what I would like to 
think that he mostly just felt 

1078
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,160
sad about it. 
Yeah, it's possible. 

1079
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,800
Is this, this is disappointing. 
You know, like if they had just 

1080
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,800
bent the knee, then there's none
of this would be necessary. 

1081
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,480
On the other hand, did he want, 
we talked so much about wanting 

1082
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,240
to set an example. 
Did he? 

1083
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,120
And maybe goading them a bit. 
Like I have 8000 men. 

1084
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,240
Did he want this? 
And yeah, so maybe maybe he 

1085
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:01,760
didn't want to kill all those 
people. 

1086
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:03,400
Maybe that's why he focused on 
the towers. 

1087
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,080
He's like, well, they'll get out
of the towers. 

1088
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,160
They'll leave the towers, you 
know, I'll burn the the wall 

1089
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,360
walks and I'll burn the the 
wooden parts. 

1090
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,800
But mostly people are going to 
run away from that, you know? 

1091
00:54:13,390 --> 00:54:16,070
He's not targeting individuals. 
Well, he couldn't anyway. 

1092
00:54:16,070 --> 00:54:18,230
Like he can't see them and and 
that doesn't seem like the best 

1093
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:21,470
strategy anyway, but obviously 
that I'm not trying to downplay.

1094
00:54:21,470 --> 00:54:24,150
There was certainly hundreds if 
not thousands people that died, 

1095
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:27,470
but he was aiming for the 
structures. 

1096
00:54:28,430 --> 00:54:31,670
You know, the towers also make a
good visual symbol down the 

1097
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:33,750
road. 
Yeah, that you're probably less 

1098
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:35,230
likely to have as many 
casualties. 

1099
00:54:35,550 --> 00:54:40,170
You preserve the the structure 
enough that it can still have 

1100
00:54:40,170 --> 00:54:42,690
utilitarian purpose, which is 
still does like hundreds of 

1101
00:54:42,690 --> 00:54:47,970
years later, it's still like, I 
don't know, a housing or a place

1102
00:54:47,970 --> 00:54:49,570
of storage and defense and 
whatever else. 

1103
00:54:49,570 --> 00:54:56,650
So, you know, I have a one thing
that was running through my head

1104
00:54:56,650 --> 00:55:00,530
thinking about this was the way 
you were bringing up just now. 

1105
00:55:00,530 --> 00:55:02,730
Let's think about Oppenheimer. 
There's a moment in the movie 

1106
00:55:02,730 --> 00:55:06,100
Oppenheimer after the nuclear 
bombs been used, and he's kind 

1107
00:55:06,100 --> 00:55:07,380
of reflecting on what that 
meant. 

1108
00:55:07,380 --> 00:55:11,420
Like he had this sort of certain
pride in his scientific 

1109
00:55:11,420 --> 00:55:13,660
correctness. 
But then it's realization of the

1110
00:55:13,660 --> 00:55:17,180
meaning that it has and it was 
kind of very powerful moment in 

1111
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:19,100
the film. 
Yeah, what is egg on? 

1112
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:21,300
Think afterwards when he's 
looking upon what he's done to 

1113
00:55:21,380 --> 00:55:23,940
that castle and he's like, oh 
right, yeah. 

1114
00:55:24,620 --> 00:55:26,900
Or even as he's doing it. 
It's like this plan. 

1115
00:55:27,060 --> 00:55:30,500
Balerian has the capability. 
Heron's not going to concede all

1116
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:32,780
Bernie's towers down. 
Okay, I did it. 

1117
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,400
Ooh, I did it, you know, and and
it's worth noting, down the road

1118
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,680
it doesn't seem like the power 
really went to his head. 

1119
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,560
Maybe a little farther down the 
road. 

1120
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,600
The idea of still trying to 
conquer Dorm might not have been

1121
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,760
wise, but it doesn't seem like 
this was a turning point where 

1122
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,520
he suddenly became tyrannical. 
That doesn't seem to be the case

1123
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,280
at all. 
So he might have steeled himself

1124
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,840
ahead realizing what this meant 
and and and maybe felt better 

1125
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,440
tempering him by only attacking 
the towers. 

1126
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,740
I hadn't thought in those terms.
I'm also reminded of the movie 

1127
00:56:03,740 --> 00:56:08,220
Clerks when they're talking 
about Return of the Jedi versus 

1128
00:56:08,900 --> 00:56:12,100
how they how the first Death 
Star they blew up, but it was 

1129
00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:14,220
already complete. 
And so ostensibly, it's all just

1130
00:56:14,220 --> 00:56:16,540
Imperial soldiers and bad guys 
there, right? 

1131
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:19,340
But in Return of the Jedi, 
they're building a new one and 

1132
00:56:19,340 --> 00:56:21,260
it's not complete. 
So there's got to be like, you 

1133
00:56:21,260 --> 00:56:25,140
know, aluminum ciders and 
plumbers, just like construction

1134
00:56:25,140 --> 00:56:27,300
workers. 
It's not like all evil people 

1135
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:29,020
that are like hammering on the 
panels. 

1136
00:56:29,020 --> 00:56:31,900
Or maybe, maybe they are evil to
work for the Empire. 

1137
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:34,700
But maybe they have a It's like 
we know from all the context of 

1138
00:56:34,700 --> 00:56:36,140
Star Wars. 
Some of them would stripped it 

1139
00:56:36,140 --> 00:56:36,620
into it. 
They. 

1140
00:56:36,780 --> 00:56:39,980
Were prison labor, Yeah, yeah, 
Which is certainly the case. 

1141
00:56:39,980 --> 00:56:41,860
Yeah, this was absolutely prison
labor, yes. 

1142
00:56:42,020 --> 00:56:44,580
Or just in slave labor, not 
necessarily in prison labor. 

1143
00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:48,220
You know, there's got to be just
cooks and servants and people in

1144
00:56:48,220 --> 00:56:50,060
there that didn't really have a 
choice about it. 

1145
00:56:50,060 --> 00:56:55,600
And you know I wonder if or how 
much hearing or a gone thought 

1146
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:06,120
about that. 
Yeah, cuz the towers are maximum

1147
00:57:06,120 --> 00:56:57,040
visibility. 
Yeah, in front of this. 

1148
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,400
And and as you talk about it 
more and more, I like the idea 

1149
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,720
of like, yeah, he just burned 
the towers because he was trying

1150
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:04,200
to minimize the casualties of 
Innocent. 

1151
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,200
Maximum symbolism. 
Fewest casualties. 

1152
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,160
So you're right and and that and
it and it enabled it fits into 

1153
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,400
the other thing we're saying 
about showing off the Dragons 

1154
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:15,600
capacity. 
Not just his destructive 

1155
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,560
capacity, but it's stamina. 
Proves like, no, you're not 

1156
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,360
going to outlast this dragon. 
It's not going to run out of 

1157
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,160
energy. 
He burned five of these gigantic

1158
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,200
largest towers ever built in 
Westeros in one night. 

1159
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,960
That's just yeah, that's beyond 
what we would have get like if 

1160
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,960
we were reading the story for 
the first time. 

1161
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,880
And he's like, well, he's going 
to try to burn down the towers 

1162
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,080
and like, is that going to work?
You know, like I we wouldn't 

1163
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,960
have known if that was possible.
Now we do. 

1164
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,280
Now everyone knows it's possible
because it was done so loudly, 

1165
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,920
so demonstrably, and in such a 
central location to such a 

1166
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,590
famous person. 
The towers are also less likely 

1167
00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:52,430
to be the place where the the 
cook and the. 

1168
00:57:52,550 --> 00:57:53,870
Yeah. 
What's the cook doing up there? 

1169
00:57:53,870 --> 00:57:56,830
Yeah, the, the floor cleaner 
they're, you know they're 

1170
00:57:56,830 --> 00:57:59,670
probably in lower chambers and 
maybe even underground. 

1171
00:57:59,750 --> 00:58:03,430
The higher spots are probably 
where the nobles rooms are with 

1172
00:58:03,430 --> 00:58:06,550
the great views and etcetera so.
Yeah, I agree. 

1173
00:58:07,070 --> 00:58:11,350
I feel better about Aegons, and 
on a lot of levels I think I 

1174
00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:13,190
feel even better about this 
whole process. 

1175
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:15,710
Yeah, it's a little about, yeah.
It's not quite as as as brutal 

1176
00:58:15,710 --> 00:58:17,930
as we were. 
Yeah. 

1177
00:58:18,090 --> 00:58:19,530
And I love how he builds it up, 
too. 

1178
00:58:19,530 --> 00:58:21,930
He's like, it's like, stone does
not burn. 

1179
00:58:22,050 --> 00:58:26,570
It's like, yeah, but, but other 
stuff does in there that you 

1180
00:58:26,570 --> 00:58:28,250
have like the wood and the 
straw. 

1181
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:30,450
Oh, and actually stone does 
burn. 

1182
00:58:31,610 --> 00:58:35,370
Yeah. 
It's like, yeah, yeah, You know,

1183
00:58:35,370 --> 00:58:37,690
that's another thought I've had 
a lot of times too, about, you 

1184
00:58:37,690 --> 00:58:39,210
know, the atomic bombs that we 
dropped. 

1185
00:58:39,210 --> 00:58:41,970
If we just said, hey, at 3:00 
there, we're going to drop these

1186
00:58:41,970 --> 00:58:43,610
bombs, Just go. 
Look, just look on this 

1187
00:58:43,610 --> 00:58:46,090
mountainside, rather than, like,
murdering all the people in the 

1188
00:58:46,090 --> 00:58:48,110
city. 
Who knows? 

1189
00:58:48,110 --> 00:58:49,390
Maybe it wouldn't have been 
enough. 

1190
00:58:49,390 --> 00:58:51,830
We wanted the symbolism for the 
Russians to know how many people

1191
00:58:51,830 --> 00:58:53,950
we could really kill. 
Or that Japan wasn't going to 

1192
00:58:53,950 --> 00:58:57,270
surrender no matter what. 
But I wonder if he had told 

1193
00:58:57,270 --> 00:59:02,110
Heron, Hey, at the quarry where 
you got the rock for Heron Hall.

1194
00:59:02,820 --> 00:59:06,980
I'm going to fly Balerian in and
and burn the stone and show you 

1195
00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:11,100
go watch Thursday at 4:00 PM. 
Or just haul some outside your 

1196
00:59:11,100 --> 00:59:13,140
walls, like I'm setting up some 
stone here and I watch what my 

1197
00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:14,700
dragon does to it. 
Are you sure you don't? 

1198
00:59:15,020 --> 00:59:17,140
That would also dishearten his 
men, Like that would be a clever

1199
00:59:17,140 --> 00:59:19,180
way to just take the morale out 
of his soldiers. 

1200
00:59:19,180 --> 00:59:21,060
Like like you really want us to 
stand up to that. 

1201
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:22,740
We were already pretty 
intimidated, but now? 

1202
00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:25,380
Yikes. 
Now I'm still going to burn the 

1203
00:59:25,380 --> 00:59:27,980
castle, but you have the chance 
to evacuate first, yeah? 

1204
00:59:28,580 --> 00:59:30,420
So, House of the Dragon Season 
2? 

1205
00:59:30,420 --> 00:59:32,020
We'll see what happens. 
With that we might get some 

1206
00:59:32,020 --> 00:59:36,100
visual. 
Examples that maybe give us a 

1207
00:59:36,100 --> 00:59:38,180
little bit of what this might 
have looked like. 

1208
00:59:38,380 --> 00:59:40,500
Honestly, the closest thing I 
can think of right now is just 

1209
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:45,740
from Game of Thrones season 
seven, when the undead dragon 

1210
00:59:45,740 --> 00:59:47,540
did its thing to the wall. 
That's the closest thing I can 

1211
00:59:47,540 --> 00:59:49,820
think of. 
Or taking down a huge edifice 

1212
00:59:50,180 --> 00:59:52,340
with dragonflame. 
That's a little easier to 

1213
00:59:52,340 --> 00:59:55,660
envision because yeah, ice fire,
of course that's going to melt, 

1214
00:59:56,140 --> 00:59:57,660
even though it's such a huge 
thing. 

1215
00:59:57,660 --> 00:59:59,100
And it's it's pretty 
spectacular. 

1216
00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:00,850
But. 
Yeah, that's the closest thing I

1217
01:00:00,850 --> 01:00:04,130
can think of to compare to, 
especially with the like on the 

1218
01:00:04,210 --> 01:00:06,810
the weird colored flame which 
looks so ghostly and cuz 

1219
01:00:07,210 --> 01:00:12,130
Valerians is black. 
That would look pretty wild and 

1220
01:00:12,250 --> 01:00:17,330
creepy and and supernatural and 
yeah, Heron's obviously horrible

1221
01:00:17,330 --> 01:00:22,050
arrogant and etcetera. 
It's it's wild that like you 

1222
01:00:22,050 --> 01:00:27,090
said Sean, he was not stupid to 
not think that stone would melt 

1223
01:00:27,090 --> 01:00:30,280
here. 
Still like what about like he's 

1224
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,440
cooked inside the tower, like 
just from the heat building up, 

1225
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:38,880
like being inside an oven. 
Almost like you almost wonder if

1226
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,120
if if Valerian started lower and
started cooking the lower part 

1227
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,760
of the tower then worked his way
up because otherwise they could 

1228
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:48,160
just go down the stairs and get 
away before the heat gets too 

1229
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,600
unbearable. 
So they were. 

1230
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:54,060
Either they their escape was cut
off, which which makes sense, 

1231
01:00:54,060 --> 01:00:56,740
like a gun could see that as a 
strategy, like burn the lower 

1232
01:00:56,740 --> 01:00:59,260
part and then work my way up to 
make sure they can't escape. 

1233
01:00:59,460 --> 01:01:01,540
But maybe he wanted to give them
a chance to escape and they were

1234
01:01:01,540 --> 01:01:03,860
still just that stubborn and 
Heron just just stayed there. 

1235
01:01:04,260 --> 01:01:06,940
Maybe that's why he burned all 
five towers, to make, you know, 

1236
01:01:06,940 --> 01:01:09,420
to make sure. 
But I wonder if he expected 

1237
01:01:09,420 --> 01:01:11,100
Heron would live through all 
that. 

1238
01:01:11,100 --> 01:01:12,820
He's like, really? 
He died in that. 

1239
01:01:12,820 --> 01:01:14,260
Like what? 
What a dummy? 

1240
01:01:14,540 --> 01:01:17,020
Like couldn't he have just gone?
Like he should have just taken 

1241
01:01:17,020 --> 01:01:18,700
shelter? 
Like I didn't burn the entire 

1242
01:01:18,700 --> 01:01:21,740
castle, I burned the top parts 
and some other things, but. 

1243
01:01:22,750 --> 01:01:25,110
Who knows, with the chaos in, 
there are two people might have 

1244
01:01:25,110 --> 01:01:28,790
started fleeing from the top and
just stumbled down the stairs 

1245
01:01:28,790 --> 01:01:33,030
and been stampeded, and the 
oxygen in the air is probably 

1246
01:01:33,030 --> 01:01:36,430
being burnt up and heated up. 
And you know, even as you try to

1247
01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:39,310
run, you still suffocate and 
might be like napalm or 

1248
01:01:39,310 --> 01:01:41,550
something, yeah? 
I can also imagine. 

1249
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:46,520
Heron suddenly realizes how much
danger his life is in. 

1250
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,840
His inner cowardice comes out, 
he's running down the stairs, 

1251
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,440
knocking down his only family 
members to get free, and comes 

1252
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,520
up to a group of his soldiers 
that are upset that their 

1253
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,760
brothers and sons were all just 
killed because of him and just 

1254
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,520
killing himself. 
And you know, like I can imagine

1255
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,600
them, they find a charred corpse
later and they don't know what 

1256
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:09,350
what happened. 
Like the towers all melted and 

1257
01:02:09,350 --> 01:02:11,230
they may not even know when 
which body was his. 

1258
01:02:11,230 --> 01:02:13,310
Like maybe they did cuz he had 
this crown or something or his 

1259
01:02:13,310 --> 01:02:16,430
yeah his distinct armor. 
Armor, but maybe not. 

1260
01:02:16,430 --> 01:02:20,150
It might have been melted 
completely in the mesh of metal.

1261
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:21,990
Of all the swords in armor, they
might not have noticed. 

1262
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:23,750
Someone in stone, it might not 
have noticed. 

1263
01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:27,590
Someone stealing his throat. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, in midst of 

1264
01:02:27,590 --> 01:02:29,630
all that. 
Same with his sons, you know. 

1265
01:02:30,430 --> 01:02:33,190
If he had survived, I wonder a 
couple things. 

1266
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:36,390
If he had survived, I wonder if 
he would have knelt, if Acon 

1267
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:38,630
would have accepted it, or if he
might have still executed him. 

1268
01:02:40,630 --> 01:02:45,550
Or maybe he even did survive and
escaped but didn't dare let 

1269
01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:48,110
anyone know because he knew he 
would have killed still. 

1270
01:02:48,110 --> 01:02:50,790
I wonder if that's a potential. 
I don't think so. 

1271
01:02:50,790 --> 01:02:53,750
I don't think that at all, but I
I I wonder if it's a potential 

1272
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:56,470
that some. 
Some family member might have 

1273
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:58,950
made it out of there but knew 
their life was in mortal danger 

1274
01:02:58,950 --> 01:03:01,430
if they revealed who they were. 
Yeah, now is there time to run 

1275
01:03:01,430 --> 01:03:03,830
away? 
Like, yo, the king that was keep

1276
01:03:03,830 --> 01:03:06,830
keeping us under his thumb is 
dying or losing badly. 

1277
01:03:06,830 --> 01:03:08,710
Everyone's turned on and this is
our chance to get away. 

1278
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:12,190
It would be a time to be like, 
he's going back to Star Wars, 

1279
01:03:12,190 --> 01:03:13,350
right? 
You know, we were using Star 

1280
01:03:13,350 --> 01:03:15,750
Wars like, this is time to get 
off the Death Star before it 

1281
01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:18,190
blows up. 
Like, there were a lot of in the

1282
01:03:18,190 --> 01:03:20,550
original Star Wars, a lot of 
Stormtroopers were killing each 

1283
01:03:20,550 --> 01:03:22,390
other. 
To get on the the few remaining 

1284
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:25,070
shuttles to escape is like, I 
could see something like that 

1285
01:03:25,070 --> 01:03:29,430
happening. 
You got panic, you got violence.

1286
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:31,710
You've got people who have 
little regard for each other and

1287
01:03:31,710 --> 01:03:34,190
for human life in general. 
They're just thinking about 

1288
01:03:34,190 --> 01:03:37,790
themselves and trying to escape.
And yeah, I could see it 

1289
01:03:37,790 --> 01:03:39,630
turning. 
And that may have been what 

1290
01:03:39,630 --> 01:03:41,190
Aegon expected. 
Like they're going to turn on 

1291
01:03:41,190 --> 01:03:44,010
each other once they realize 
that it's hopeless once he 

1292
01:03:44,010 --> 01:03:46,650
realized their king is can no 
longer lead them. 

1293
01:03:46,650 --> 01:03:50,730
Or if they realize he's dead. 
Which I don't suspect Word 

1294
01:03:50,730 --> 01:03:53,810
spread of Heron's death during 
the battle because it would have

1295
01:03:53,810 --> 01:03:56,730
just been so chaotic, like who's
talking to who? 

1296
01:03:56,770 --> 01:03:59,210
What line of communication is is
happening? 

1297
01:03:59,210 --> 01:04:01,450
Word might have spread to a 
bunch of people who then got 

1298
01:04:01,450 --> 01:04:03,170
burned to death. 
Yeah yeah, and they just they 

1299
01:04:03,250 --> 01:04:05,650
they ran away before telling any
anyone or went and hidden the 

1300
01:04:05,650 --> 01:04:07,650
gods would. 
And that's another important 

1301
01:04:07,650 --> 01:04:09,090
point. 
Yeah, as much fire as there were

1302
01:04:09,090 --> 01:04:12,160
as and as much a gun burn things
he didn't burn the gods wood. 

1303
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,080
That's really important. 
And that he had to have been 

1304
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,480
relatively aware of where it 
was. 

1305
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,600
Which brings us back to an 
interesting point. 

1306
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,480
He did go inside here and haul 
to Parley. 

1307
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,080
Maybe that's part of why he went
inside to get a look from the 

1308
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,000
inside. 
Now he could have just looked up

1309
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,880
down on it from Valerian. 
But maybe you get a closer look 

1310
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:31,560
when you're there in person you 
know? 

1311
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,640
And that would have been and it 
also speaks to Heron's maybe 

1312
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,600
gives him a little bit of honor 
or maybe he just didn't think of

1313
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:42,280
it. 
His chance to win was during the

1314
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,200
parlay. 
That's his one chance to kill 

1315
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,440
the dragon rider. 
He could have used treachery, 

1316
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,120
use some sort of ambush. 
Been like okay, it's not coming 

1317
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,240
to this. 
I'm just going to murder you 

1318
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,280
now. 
It's not like Heron had a 

1319
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,360
reputation to protect. 
You know he was already hated. 

1320
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,160
But you know for whatever reason
he just it would maybe he would 

1321
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,080
have thought it was cowardly. 
Maybe he really, Maybe he wanted

1322
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:06,090
to prove himself to be like, 
maybe he wanted the the notch in

1323
01:05:06,090 --> 01:05:09,770
his belt of defeating this 
Dragon King like he was over. 

1324
01:05:09,770 --> 01:05:11,570
That's the level of his 
overconfidence. 

1325
01:05:11,570 --> 01:05:14,130
He's like, I want to show 
everybody just how Aegon wanted 

1326
01:05:14,130 --> 01:05:16,570
to show what Balerian could do. 
He wanted to show what his 

1327
01:05:16,570 --> 01:05:18,970
castle could do, and it just 
blackfired. 

1328
01:05:19,050 --> 01:05:20,050
Backfired. 
Yeah. 

1329
01:05:21,730 --> 01:05:25,050
If he had won that somehow, it 
would have been a different 

1330
01:05:25,050 --> 01:05:27,970
story after the fact. 
He he might have, quote, UN 

1331
01:05:27,970 --> 01:05:30,250
quote, united the Seven 
Kingdoms, conquered like 

1332
01:05:30,250 --> 01:05:32,220
everyone might have. 
They were already afraid of. 

1333
01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:36,140
Him to kneel to him or flock to 
him even, you know, Yeah. 

1334
01:05:37,100 --> 01:05:40,500
Another element to consider, 
though, a reason he might not 

1335
01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:43,180
have done something treacherous 
to Agon was because he does have

1336
01:05:43,180 --> 01:05:44,780
two sisters with Dragons still 
out there. 

1337
01:05:44,780 --> 01:05:47,340
Yeah, that's true. 
Might not have ended it exactly,

1338
01:05:47,340 --> 01:05:50,660
so that's a good point. 
So either way, like sometimes 

1339
01:05:50,660 --> 01:05:54,540
when we're thinking about, like 
imagining what these powerful 

1340
01:05:54,540 --> 01:05:56,780
men were thinking, you have to 
aim high. 

1341
01:05:56,780 --> 01:05:58,900
You have to think of the 
confidence of a king. 

1342
01:05:59,180 --> 01:06:02,850
Like, he doesn't really consider
losing, you know? 

1343
01:06:02,850 --> 01:06:05,090
Like, though that's not really a
thing, you know, like I'm, I'm 

1344
01:06:05,090 --> 01:06:08,170
so confident that I don't 
imagine what losing is like 

1345
01:06:08,170 --> 01:06:14,370
because even that is a weakness.
So it's like this like cultured 

1346
01:06:14,370 --> 01:06:17,730
bravado, you know? 
Or they they can't even imagine 

1347
01:06:17,730 --> 01:06:20,090
what it's like to lose. 
It's part of the part of being 

1348
01:06:20,090 --> 01:06:21,930
courageous. 
I don't know. 

1349
01:06:22,890 --> 01:06:25,890
I I have an instinct to bring up
a counterpoint to that because I

1350
01:06:25,890 --> 01:06:28,340
think sometimes. 
I don't know. 

1351
01:06:28,340 --> 01:06:32,420
Rich, powerful, whatever people,
they still have the same traits 

1352
01:06:32,420 --> 01:06:35,540
and flaws as average normal 
people too. 

1353
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:39,340
They can still be selfish or 
stubborn or get angry. 

1354
01:06:39,540 --> 01:06:44,500
And I don't know, some naive 16 
year old high school kid in a 

1355
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:47,380
swim meet might also not 
consider that they could lose. 

1356
01:06:47,380 --> 01:06:51,220
You know, you could still, even 
if you're naive and not super 

1357
01:06:51,220 --> 01:06:56,980
powerful, still have the. 
Mindset of not considering a 

1358
01:06:56,980 --> 01:06:59,260
loss or what might happen, 
whether it's from confidence or 

1359
01:06:59,260 --> 01:07:02,140
naivete or whatever else. 
Right on. 

1360
01:07:02,540 --> 01:07:05,180
Well said. 
All right, let's take our I'll 

1361
01:07:05,180 --> 01:07:08,540
take a break here and come back 
with the aftermath. 

1362
01:07:09,020 --> 01:07:10,860
The lesson, what that lesson 
meant? 

1363
01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:14,980
What happened next, All that. 
But first, this episode is 

1364
01:07:14,980 --> 01:07:19,440
sponsored by HelloFresh. 
Go to hellofresh.com/fifty 

1365
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:24,680
Westeros and use the code 50 
Westeros for 50% off plus free 

1366
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,840
shipping. 
So effectively that's more than 

1367
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:28,480
50% off. 
Since you get the shipping for 

1368
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,840
free. 
It's America's number one meal 

1369
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,800
kit. 
Cooking with a recipe teaches 

1370
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,920
you and leads to variety now and
later. 

1371
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:36,840
It's really fun to do something 
different. 

1372
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,560
If you're like me, you will 
occasionally kind of get into a 

1373
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,960
rut with what you eat, kind of 
just eat the same things. 

1374
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:43,920
There's nothing wrong with that,
but it's really nice to do 

1375
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,270
something different and have 
something new and and something 

1376
01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:48,910
maybe you've never even imagined
existed. 

1377
01:07:49,030 --> 01:07:52,870
One example we had from 
HelloFresh in the recent weeks 

1378
01:07:52,870 --> 01:07:56,630
was buttered shrimp. 
Basically po boys, they were 

1379
01:07:56,630 --> 01:08:00,030
little baby shrimp with these 
really delicious buttered rolls,

1380
01:08:00,030 --> 01:08:01,310
like small, like basically a 
sandwich. 

1381
01:08:01,710 --> 01:08:05,750
And it had this purple coleslaw 
in it that was really tangy and 

1382
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:07,470
delicious, was a really perfect 
combination. 

1383
01:08:07,470 --> 01:08:09,950
The crunch of the shrimp and the
Tang of the coleslaw and the 

1384
01:08:09,950 --> 01:08:11,550
bread. 
It was really, really good. 

1385
01:08:11,710 --> 01:08:14,850
Came with these excellent 
roasted potatoes of big chunky 

1386
01:08:14,850 --> 01:08:16,770
ones that are like potatoes just
cut into fourths. 

1387
01:08:17,050 --> 01:08:20,490
Just love those things and I 
wish there was more but. 

1388
01:08:20,649 --> 01:08:23,250
Chunky potatoes. 
Big chunky potatoes as opposed 

1389
01:08:23,250 --> 01:08:25,170
to very skinny shoestring 
potatoes. 

1390
01:08:26,529 --> 01:08:28,649
I want to clarify something 
because I've I've looked in the 

1391
01:08:28,649 --> 01:08:31,810
hell of fresh before and I I 
sort of have my assistant for 

1392
01:08:31,810 --> 01:08:33,970
shopping and I'm comfortable 
cooking and everything. 

1393
01:08:34,450 --> 01:08:37,569
And so I remember thinking like 
this is a fine deal, but not 

1394
01:08:37,569 --> 01:08:41,210
quite for me. 
But 50% off makes it a super 

1395
01:08:41,210 --> 01:08:42,170
good deal. 
Is that just? 

1396
01:08:42,710 --> 01:08:45,430
50% off blanket period or just 
like the first order, the first 

1397
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:48,830
month or how's that work? 
Yeah, it is 50% off for I 

1398
01:08:48,830 --> 01:08:51,430
believe it's for your first 
several months. 

1399
01:08:51,430 --> 01:08:52,950
I'm not actually clear on that. 
Good question. 

1400
01:08:52,950 --> 01:08:54,710
I may need to clarify that. 
But yeah, I think it's on your 

1401
01:08:54,710 --> 01:08:56,990
membership code, on your on your
sign up. 

1402
01:08:56,990 --> 01:09:00,069
So we'll correct that next time 
around if it's not true. 

1403
01:09:00,069 --> 01:09:01,270
But yeah, I believe that's the 
case. 

1404
01:09:01,350 --> 01:09:04,310
If anyone has looked at that and
it was closed, 50% off makes it 

1405
01:09:04,310 --> 01:09:06,510
not close, yeah, that's a great 
yeah, absolutely. 

1406
01:09:06,510 --> 01:09:09,350
I totally agree. 
And as a bonus, if you are a cat

1407
01:09:09,350 --> 01:09:13,729
owner, let me tell you the box 
it came in, All four of our cats

1408
01:09:13,729 --> 01:09:17,130
have slept in that box. 
It's a big perfect cat sized 

1409
01:09:17,130 --> 01:09:18,649
box. 
It's crinkly on the inside. 

1410
01:09:18,649 --> 01:09:20,450
You know cats. 
Insulated or whatever. 

1411
01:09:20,529 --> 01:09:23,210
It's insulate, yeah, so the food
stays fresh and it's got dry ice

1412
01:09:23,210 --> 01:09:26,569
in it and all that. 
So yeah, so we were excited to 

1413
01:09:26,569 --> 01:09:28,490
get the box, but so are the 
cats. 

1414
01:09:30,410 --> 01:09:32,170
Talk about making your whole 
family happy. 

1415
01:09:33,090 --> 01:09:36,770
So once again, 
hellofresh.com/fifty Westeros 

1416
01:09:36,770 --> 01:09:40,630
use the code of 50 Westeros and 
like Sean said, 50% off plus 

1417
01:09:40,630 --> 01:09:42,790
free shipping is a substantial 
discount. 

1418
01:09:42,910 --> 01:09:45,390
Check it out. 
And if you don't, if it's not 

1419
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:47,350
for you in the long term, well, 
you're not really. 

1420
01:09:47,350 --> 01:09:49,910
You're not signed up for some 
long term, you're not stuck with

1421
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:52,149
it for years. 
Try it out, it might be 

1422
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:54,910
something that changes the way 
you eat for us a long time. 

1423
01:09:55,310 --> 01:09:58,070
All right, a couple of y'all 
sent in some questions. 

1424
01:09:58,070 --> 01:10:01,030
Calista Cross says the Super 
Chats is just dropping in to say

1425
01:10:01,030 --> 01:10:02,110
hi. 
Can't stay at the moment, but 

1426
01:10:02,110 --> 01:10:03,830
I'm sad I missed y'all at Dragon
Con. 

1427
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:07,940
I hope it was fun. 
Dragon Con was a blast and we 

1428
01:10:07,940 --> 01:10:10,620
are moments away from showing 
you all a few photos of it. 

1429
01:10:10,860 --> 01:10:16,260
But first, Marley also sends a 
super chat, says just a show of 

1430
01:10:16,260 --> 01:10:19,140
love and support for all the 
content and for the Dragons And 

1431
01:10:19,140 --> 01:10:21,500
hey, and for Dragon Con here. 
Like I said, Shay is going to 

1432
01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:23,540
put some photos up on screen 
here real quick. 

1433
01:10:23,540 --> 01:10:27,140
I'll say if you guys aren't 
watching this, if you're This is

1434
01:10:27,140 --> 01:10:30,460
an opportunity maybe for y'all 
to check out the episodes on 

1435
01:10:30,460 --> 01:10:32,180
Spotify. 
Because if you're listening on 

1436
01:10:32,180 --> 01:10:35,310
Spotify and something visual 
comes up, you can just click a 

1437
01:10:35,310 --> 01:10:38,190
button and the video turns on 
and you can just watch that 

1438
01:10:38,270 --> 01:10:41,070
short portion of the video. 
You're seeing more and more of 

1439
01:10:41,070 --> 01:10:46,190
that in the podcast world, where
things are visual, but only for 

1440
01:10:46,190 --> 01:10:48,670
part of the show we're on the 
whole time. 

1441
01:10:48,670 --> 01:10:51,030
You can be watching us, watching
my face, watching my hand 

1442
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:53,030
gestures, watching a Shay and 
Shawn occasionally. 

1443
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:56,820
But at times like this it really
pays to have your visuals turned

1444
01:10:56,820 --> 01:10:58,780
on. 
And that's why Spotify is pretty

1445
01:10:58,780 --> 01:11:01,740
useful for that, because you can
just flip it on and watch what's

1446
01:11:01,740 --> 01:11:04,540
there to be seen and then when 
it's over, just turn it back to 

1447
01:11:04,540 --> 01:11:06,620
audio only. 
And that way you're not using up

1448
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:08,900
a lot of bandwidth or or maybe 
you just like seeing us through 

1449
01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:10,980
the whole time. 
So just another this is a good 

1450
01:11:10,980 --> 01:11:13,020
time to remind you that that is 
a feature that you can take 

1451
01:11:13,020 --> 01:11:15,060
advantage of. 
Also worth saying that if you 

1452
01:11:15,060 --> 01:11:18,300
want to see the full album of 
the World of Ice and Fire photos

1453
01:11:18,300 --> 01:11:20,740
if you go to the History of 
Westeros Facebook page. 

1454
01:11:21,380 --> 01:11:24,100
If you go to our TikTok, you can
see photos and videos. 

1455
01:11:24,340 --> 01:11:26,500
Yeah, there's a lot more photos 
than what we're about to show 

1456
01:11:26,500 --> 01:11:28,900
here. 
Dragon Con is here in Atlanta, 

1457
01:11:28,900 --> 01:11:31,140
so we always go. 
It's real easy for us to attend.

1458
01:11:31,140 --> 01:11:33,140
It's not something we don't have
to pay for a hotel or anything 

1459
01:11:33,140 --> 01:11:34,780
like that. 
So it's a real easy time for us.

1460
01:11:34,780 --> 01:11:36,220
And we've been going for a long 
time. 

1461
01:11:36,220 --> 01:11:38,820
I've been to more than twenty of
these, but this is one of the 

1462
01:11:38,820 --> 01:11:41,750
first times I did more. 
This is the first time I did 

1463
01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:45,030
more than one costume, and there
I am in the middle as a crab 

1464
01:11:45,030 --> 01:11:46,910
feeder. 
You might not have known that 

1465
01:11:46,910 --> 01:11:49,310
was me cuz of the mask, but that
is me right in the middle there,

1466
01:11:49,390 --> 01:11:51,350
yeah. 
You probably took like at least 

1467
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:53,350
six or seven pictures. 
Huh. 

1468
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:55,590
Yeah, no, I must have left 2000 
pictures. 

1469
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:58,990
Yeah, I was gonna say I had 100.
Multiply that by 100, then 

1470
01:11:58,990 --> 01:12:00,670
multiply it by four or five. 
Yeah, I don't have. 

1471
01:12:01,070 --> 01:12:04,020
A lot of pictures. 
Yeah, so this one's from the 

1472
01:12:04,020 --> 01:12:06,380
World of Ice in a Fire shoot, 
which had lots of House to the 

1473
01:12:06,380 --> 01:12:10,780
Dragon and other history stuff, 
which again, if you want to see 

1474
01:12:10,780 --> 01:12:14,900
more photos from that, I believe
the album is the best thing. 

1475
01:12:14,900 --> 01:12:18,180
Yeah, there's famous characters 
like a lot of Damon's and 

1476
01:12:18,180 --> 01:12:20,500
Rainier's and Allison's, but 
also some of the more obscure 

1477
01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:24,060
ones like Elena or like me, the 
Crab feeder. 

1478
01:12:24,620 --> 01:12:25,820
Thanks. 
You some excited here. 

1479
01:12:25,820 --> 01:12:27,940
Yeah, there's a Luke some. 
Amens and a Luke. 

1480
01:12:28,540 --> 01:12:32,280
Here's. 
Damon's dragging Crab Feeder 2. 

1481
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,080
Damon's dragging me through the 
surf, yes. 

1482
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,080
Yeah edit I did. 
They're totally not being 

1483
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,000
careful to keep their hands away
from my sores, so they're 

1484
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:41,760
definitely catching, racing. 
Look at their Harwin's being 

1485
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:42,840
Harwin. 
Yeah, he's in. 

1486
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,360
Our friend Tom is Harwin, which 
is cool. 

1487
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:47,440
Yeah, That's Tom Snow. 
He does a really good John Snow 

1488
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:48,880
cosplay, too, as you can tell by
his face. 

1489
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,000
You could. 
Yeah, yeah, of course. 

1490
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,320
He's a good. 
John selection of pics from that

1491
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:54,360
I was not in house Dragon 
cosplay. 

1492
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:56,240
This was my Expanse jumpsuit 
day. 

1493
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,240
As you can see in this picture 
from us, I did a bunch of other 

1494
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:00,200
cross. 
Which? 

1495
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:02,720
Let's go over those, yeah, Yeah.
I'll see a few not. 

1496
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:03,760
Yeah, a few. 
Not as long as. 

1497
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,320
Fire ones. 
From here I did a Poison Ivy for

1498
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:14,000
Bunny Hutch Heff and I ran into 
a Pepe Sylvia board. 

1499
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,000
A Charlie Kelly cosplayer from 
Always Sunny. 

1500
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,920
Bunny Hutch is a recurring party
at Dragon Con the first night 

1501
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,360
every year. 
It's been a tradition for at 

1502
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,880
least five years now, I think. 
That. 

1503
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,400
As you sided my expense 
jumpsuit, I did. 

1504
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,400
This is a Fire Emblem Emo night.
I designed these shirts. 

1505
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,200
I'm gonna make some like this, 
but for House of the Dragon. 

1506
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:35,280
For like the Dance of the 
Dragons battle. 

1507
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:37,120
He's like tour dates on the 
poster now. 

1508
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:40,480
That's Dom to her left or her 
right rather on the screen left.

1509
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,480
And Dom was one of the Damon's 
dragging me a man oh. 

1510
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:44,200
Yeah, yeah. 
Right here, also there. 

1511
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,120
Very different. 
Shout out to Folk Wise channel. 

1512
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:51,040
He is a member of that show. 
And then I did another Fire 

1513
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,350
Emblem cosplay. 
I did Yunaka from Fire Emblem 

1514
01:13:54,350 --> 01:13:57,710
Engage and this is me. 
They had like a Nintendo theme 

1515
01:13:57,710 --> 01:13:59,590
at the Hilton. 
So I took a picture with all 

1516
01:14:00,030 --> 01:14:02,190
this Nintendo setup which I 
thought was super cute. 

1517
01:14:02,710 --> 01:14:06,670
But you can also see here I am 
Yaz, Yunaka and Aziz as his 

1518
01:14:06,670 --> 01:14:10,270
better called Rogo mashup. 
He does. 

1519
01:14:10,670 --> 01:14:14,310
And there's another mashup. 
Our friend Ali did Jorah the 

1520
01:14:14,310 --> 01:14:17,990
Explorer. 
As with the backpack, that's 

1521
01:14:18,430 --> 01:14:19,470
awesome. 
Yeah, it was just cute. 

1522
01:14:19,470 --> 01:14:22,070
It was clever. 
And our friend Meg as Danny and 

1523
01:14:22,070 --> 01:14:26,870
our friend Amber as Asha 
Greyjoy, That was the Game of 

1524
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:30,310
Thrones shoot. 
Whereas these also saw another 

1525
01:14:30,310 --> 01:14:33,630
crab feeder. 
Our friend, someone I know, Jack

1526
01:14:33,630 --> 01:14:36,410
Durnan. 
He also does Expanse Cosh play, 

1527
01:14:36,410 --> 01:14:38,490
so I see him every year at the 
Expanse photo shoot. 

1528
01:14:38,490 --> 01:14:41,090
And here he was, his crab feeder
with the green screen. 

1529
01:14:41,090 --> 01:14:42,690
He's really smart. 
Yeah. 

1530
01:14:42,690 --> 01:14:44,250
He did the green screen for his 
lower body. 

1531
01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:46,130
He's all in green so that when 
people take photos, they can 

1532
01:14:46,130 --> 01:14:48,330
edit his legs out. 
So it can be just like the 

1533
01:14:48,730 --> 01:14:50,690
scenes Massive Dragon where 
Damon's dragging him without his

1534
01:14:50,690 --> 01:14:53,130
legs. 
That was really clever. 

1535
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,920
Yeah, I love that. 
This is from the Game of Thrones

1536
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:00,080
shoot, which had look at this 
great egg on the Conqueror and 

1537
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:03,720
his sisters and Rainy's and 
Husenia which seemed extra fit 

1538
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:06,760
and the Iron Throne, yeah all 
seemed extra fitting given our 

1539
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:08,920
episode today. 
I like I had to include them. 

1540
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,000
The woman dressed up as the Iron
Throne. 

1541
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,320
Her name is like Mikhail I 
believe, and she the way they do

1542
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,760
these photo shoots is they're 
like, OK, all the Targaryen's 

1543
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,520
get up there OK, all the 
Lannisters get up there OK, all 

1544
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,600
the and it's always like and 
anyone associated. 

1545
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,720
So Iron Throne is just like part
of every shoot. 

1546
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:26,400
So she was pretty clever and 
she's like in every shot because

1547
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:28,280
the Iron Throne's part of 
associated with everything 

1548
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:32,280
there. 
Yeah, so that was the I was one 

1549
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:35,120
of my favorite of the Song of 
Ice and Fire cosplay I saw was 

1550
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,640
actually these these The 
Conquerors and Iron Throne were 

1551
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,480
shot. 
But my other favorite cosplay I 

1552
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:44,200
saw was in line for Spectrum. 
I saw Uncle Baby Billy from. 

1553
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,560
The righteous gemstones and and 
when he was doing his song and 

1554
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:52,240
dance as you can see there and 
he like that he had an accent he

1555
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:53,720
did. 
He was really a character. 

1556
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,000
There will be a payday or a 
payday be a payday. 

1557
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:58,840
That song that he's singing, if 
y'all haven't seen righteous 

1558
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,120
gemstones, he's really. 
It's really funny. 

1559
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,640
Then there was a I did a rainbow
spider Quinn, as you can see 

1560
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:10,640
here, a friend of the show, 
Chuck Lazaro of He has a a 

1561
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:17,170
website fan of maniacs. 
Yep, he printed it and sewed it 

1562
01:16:17,170 --> 01:16:19,770
and all that for me. 
And we worked on it together. 

1563
01:16:19,770 --> 01:16:21,770
And he helped me with a lot of 
my other cosplay, too. 

1564
01:16:21,770 --> 01:16:26,770
He's a very and we also went to 
his birthday, as it happens 

1565
01:16:26,850 --> 01:16:28,050
Sunday. 
Yeah, a little Sunday Dragon 

1566
01:16:28,050 --> 01:16:28,970
Con. 
Chuck's birthday? 

1567
01:16:29,770 --> 01:16:31,090
Well, anyway, so there's my 
spider. 

1568
01:16:31,090 --> 01:16:35,570
Gwen Aziz did an Allen cosplay 
from Barbie. 

1569
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:39,440
And this is Tell us about Thalsa
Doom. 

1570
01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:42,240
OK, so if any of y'all have seen
the original Conan the Barbarian

1571
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,000
movie with Arnold 
Schwarzenegger, this was the 

1572
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:47,920
character played by James Earl 
Jones, Thalsa Doom, who is the 

1573
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:52,800
main villain. 
He's a snake cult leader and has

1574
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,560
some magical powers and I've 
never seen a Thalsa Doom 

1575
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,340
cosplay. 
Was an iconic fantasy character 

1576
01:16:58,500 --> 01:17:01,260
and over Tranny Dragon Cons, 
I've never seen this done and I 

1577
01:17:01,260 --> 01:17:03,220
was so excited to see it. 
Look at all that detail, Look at

1578
01:17:03,220 --> 01:17:08,660
the snakehead helmet, the snake 
medallions and the man had a bit

1579
01:17:08,660 --> 01:17:11,940
of a James Earl, James Earl 
Jones vibe on his own without 

1580
01:17:11,940 --> 01:17:15,060
the costume, so it looked great.
Yeah, I was super happy to see 

1581
01:17:15,060 --> 01:17:16,740
that one and that was, yeah, 
that was at the spider verse 

1582
01:17:16,740 --> 01:17:18,820
shoot. 
So it was kind of a fun place to

1583
01:17:18,820 --> 01:17:19,820
run into that. 
Yeah, which was. 

1584
01:17:19,820 --> 01:17:22,300
Here's just a picture of the 
madness at the spider verse 

1585
01:17:22,300 --> 01:17:26,060
shoot, which was a very busy and
hectic There's me. 

1586
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:28,240
And a whole lot of other spider 
people. 

1587
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,440
This is like a small cross 
section of yeah, like it was 

1588
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:32,600
huge. 
It was huge. 

1589
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,680
It wasn't as huge as the as the 
Barbie Shoot, which was 

1590
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,760
unsurprisingly the largest. 
We attend the Barbie Shoot, but 

1591
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,280
we did do lots of Barbie 
cosplay. 

1592
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:45,440
As you see, there's a Alan and 
me as a Rainbow Barbie with the 

1593
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:47,920
pink cowgirl Barbie. 
You can still see my black fire 

1594
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:52,080
temporary tattoo on my right arm
there, which I wore as a black 

1595
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:56,480
fire day. 
I did Barbie twice that weekend.

1596
01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:00,080
Because I also did it for 
Barbenheimer, as you can see 

1597
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,920
here for Spectrum, we did a 
rainbow Barbenheimer. 

1598
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,760
I did the Pink Floyd edit for 
it. 

1599
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:08,600
And yeah, that was my cosplay 
for the weekend. 

1600
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:14,480
I did a whole lot of rainbows 
and colors and and it's got Aziz

1601
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,880
to do. 
What'd you do, 434? 

1602
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:19,600
Yeah, I did. 
Fancy crab feeder. 

1603
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:25,200
Regular grayscale crab feeder. 
Better call Drogo and Allen. 

1604
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,300
Yeah. 
Yeah, tons and tons of cosplay 

1605
01:18:28,300 --> 01:18:33,100
for us this time, and I will be 
endeavoring to get all of my 

1606
01:18:33,100 --> 01:18:35,060
photos up on Facebook and 
whatnot. 

1607
01:18:39,900 --> 01:18:42,540
So yeah, once again, check our 
social media for the best place 

1608
01:18:42,540 --> 01:18:37,420
being Facebook for that. 
I'm almost I'm pretty deep into 

1609
01:18:37,420 --> 01:18:39,620
the Game of Thrones shoot and 
I'll get those up next. 

1610
01:18:43,380 --> 01:18:46,700
But if you find any of our 
social media you can find your 

1611
01:18:46,700 --> 01:18:50,070
way to the others. 
One last thing about my better 

1612
01:18:50,070 --> 01:18:53,030
Call Drogo costume. 
Yes, that is a Better Call Saul 

1613
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:55,710
but a Drogo mashup. 
And what I did you can't see it.

1614
01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:57,110
You couldn't see it in the photo
very well. 

1615
01:18:57,310 --> 01:19:01,670
But I have a bunch of ties 
strapped around my waist like as

1616
01:19:01,670 --> 01:19:05,310
it when I defeat another lawyer.
I cut off their tie and it's 

1617
01:19:05,310 --> 01:19:07,630
like the and I did have a braid 
with bells. 

1618
01:19:07,630 --> 01:19:10,110
You can see it at the bottom so 
like right there at the. 

1619
01:19:10,910 --> 01:19:14,030
So I did. 
I did tinkle when I walked like 

1620
01:19:14,030 --> 01:19:16,590
like the. 
Bells from the book version of 

1621
01:19:16,590 --> 01:19:19,240
of the Dithraki. 
So yeah, so that was a TV show 

1622
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:21,680
mash up with the book version of
the character, but also the show

1623
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:23,320
version of the character. 
Cuz those blue stripes are 

1624
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,240
obviously from the books, from 
the show, not the books, but the

1625
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:27,840
braid and the bells are from the
books. 

1626
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,920
So yeah, so yeah, great times. 
Y'all, if you're ever thinking 

1627
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,820
of coming to a convention, well,
don't think of them as similar. 

1628
01:19:35,860 --> 01:19:36,900
Don't think of them as all the 
same. 

1629
01:19:36,900 --> 01:19:38,740
We've talked about Ice and Fire 
Con a lot. 

1630
01:19:38,940 --> 01:19:41,260
That's only about 300 people, 
which is not a bad thing. 

1631
01:19:41,260 --> 01:19:42,780
That's really fun. 
You have a small group of people

1632
01:19:42,780 --> 01:19:46,100
you can get to know really well.
Dragon Con had over 70,000, so 

1633
01:19:46,100 --> 01:19:49,820
it's they're both conventions, 
but you can see why that would 

1634
01:19:49,820 --> 01:19:54,000
be substantially different. 
Massive Fire con and smaller 

1635
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,000
cons, it's it's one interesting 
about them is it? 

1636
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:58,600
Everyone's kind of there for the
same thing. 

1637
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,560
You everyone has the same 
passion and the same knowledge 

1638
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:04,120
base and everything. 
Where Dragon Con is specifically

1639
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,040
trying to peel to every 
different fandom. 

1640
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,240
There's like maybe a focus on 
fantasy and scifi, but there's 

1641
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,440
like professional wrestling and 
predator and. 

1642
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:17,000
Elijah Wood and Shawn. 
You know, like. 

1643
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,720
Yeah, it's like a broad spectrum
of anything that has a phantom 

1644
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:22,680
that you can think of video 
games, board. 

1645
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,720
Games. 
Everything is featured at Dragon

1646
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:28,840
Con, so you get a huge variety 
of cosplays and communities, and

1647
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:32,840
it's just a massive spectacle of
an event that I didn't go this 

1648
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:33,840
year. 
But I don't know, I've been at 

1649
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,840
least a dozen or I don't know if
I've been 20, but a bunch of 

1650
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:38,560
times. 
And it's every time it's a 

1651
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,360
completely different experience 
because there's so much 

1652
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:43,720
different stuff going on. 
There was a Speaking of Elijah 

1653
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:45,160
Wood. 
Yeah, so Elijah Wood was there, 

1654
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,920
one of the more famous stars 
there and Sean asked into And so

1655
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:49,880
they were, you know, Salmon 
Frodo reunited. 

1656
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,960
A lot of people took photos with
them, but my favorite photo of I

1657
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:54,480
saw. 
I didn't get in that line or 

1658
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:56,480
take photos with them or 
anything, but there's a photo of

1659
01:20:56,480 --> 01:20:59,440
making the rounds of someone who
had done the cosplay of Gand 

1660
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:01,120
Alf. 
This was Gand Alf. 

1661
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,160
But Alf. 
Yeah, Alf, like the TV. 

1662
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,200
Like, yeah. 
So it was Alf's face, But 

1663
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:11,480
Gandalf's wig and robes and 
staff, Yeah. 

1664
01:21:11,480 --> 01:21:18,100
And Elijah Wood just his face 
when seeing that was just like 

1665
01:21:18,100 --> 01:21:20,420
he had seen the coolest thing 
he's ever seen in his life and 

1666
01:21:20,420 --> 01:21:22,500
and and it lingered and so he 
took the photo because his face 

1667
01:21:22,500 --> 01:21:27,660
is like he's pointing at Gandalf
with his like like his big grin 

1668
01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:29,380
on his face. 
Sean Ashton's more just like 

1669
01:21:29,740 --> 01:21:32,460
this is cool you know he's got 
more of a like, I've been doing 

1670
01:21:32,460 --> 01:21:34,700
this all day man. 
I'm a little tired now kind of 

1671
01:21:34,700 --> 01:21:37,260
look on his face. 
But Electra wood is was like, 

1672
01:21:37,260 --> 01:21:44,240
yeah, Gandalf that was great 
letter from someone named 

1673
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:48,200
Whitney D sending in a little 
bit of a chemistry biology 

1674
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:52,800
lesson about why maybe 
dragonflame having color isn't 

1675
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:57,480
so supernatural. 
Well the point is I wanted to 

1676
01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:00,360
give a Z some sound logic for 
this detail that might alleviate

1677
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,320
his problems with it. 
I have a ceramics degree which I

1678
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:04,840
never use and serves little 
purpose. 

1679
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,120
Hey that makes two of us. 
I have a not a ceramics degree, 

1680
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:10,390
but a music degree that I don't 
make much use of other than 

1681
01:22:10,390 --> 01:22:13,350
occasionally playing a Game of 
Thrones song. 

1682
01:22:14,070 --> 01:22:16,190
That's about what so most of 
what I've done with it. 

1683
01:22:16,510 --> 01:22:18,630
However, in the process of 
getting that degree, I took my 

1684
01:22:18,630 --> 01:22:21,270
one and only chemistry class 
ever glaze chemistry. 

1685
01:22:21,430 --> 01:22:23,350
And let me tell you how glazes 
get their color. 

1686
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:25,590
It's from raw chemicals or 
whatever you call them. 

1687
01:22:26,230 --> 01:22:28,990
If you want a red glaze, you 
need copper oxide or copper 

1688
01:22:28,990 --> 01:22:31,750
copper carbonate and it needs to
fire at a specific temperature. 

1689
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:36,550
For green, you need chromium 
oxide or cobalts or cobalts to 

1690
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:40,410
make teals. 
So different chemical or 

1691
01:22:40,410 --> 01:22:43,770
different metals used at 
different temperatures cause 

1692
01:22:43,770 --> 01:22:45,810
different color fire. 
So different color fire is 

1693
01:22:45,810 --> 01:22:47,810
certainly a real thing. 
That's not, that's not, that's 

1694
01:22:47,810 --> 01:22:50,130
not a supernatural I was at 
least aware of that much. 

1695
01:22:50,130 --> 01:22:52,650
But that doesn't make sense. 
Maybe there's different metal 

1696
01:22:53,410 --> 01:22:57,010
bits of metal, or oxides within 
their body, or within their 

1697
01:22:57,010 --> 01:23:01,730
internal functional, internal 
systems, whatever. 

1698
01:23:01,730 --> 01:23:05,490
And it it, it creates an 
ignition or creates a similar 

1699
01:23:05,490 --> 01:23:09,840
effect of the heat of the flame 
combined with some certain 

1700
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:11,720
chemistry within their body 
creates that coloring. 

1701
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:12,960
It's. 
It's not. 

1702
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,720
It's an easy thing for me to 
process the fantasy of just 

1703
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:17,880
like, I don't know, we have 
humans have different color 

1704
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,320
hair, eyes, skin, stuff like 
that. 

1705
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:24,080
Some subtle difference in how 
the DNA processes the food they 

1706
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:27,120
eat can just make the flambied. 
I mean, yeah, I don't like 

1707
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:28,880
fireworks have all kinds of 
different colors. 

1708
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,710
And not to be too gross, but 
things that come out of us have 

1709
01:23:31,710 --> 01:23:39,230
a variety of colors too. 
Whether or not you have the flu 

1710
01:23:39,230 --> 01:23:37,550
or. 
You know, Okay, that was too. 

1711
01:23:39,790 --> 01:23:43,350
Yeah, right. 
Dysentery. 

1712
01:23:43,950 --> 01:23:51,350
Oh, God, yeah, Grayscale, you 
know, okay. 

1713
01:23:51,350 --> 01:23:53,710
So, yeah, let's move on to the 
lesson. 

1714
01:23:54,430 --> 01:23:58,230
It lingers for so long. 
And let's start it with a quote.

1715
01:23:59,060 --> 01:24:03,060
Every child of the Trident knew 
the tales told of Heron Hall, 

1716
01:24:03,300 --> 01:24:06,620
the vast fortress that King 
Heron the Black had raised 

1717
01:24:06,620 --> 01:24:11,900
beside the waters of God's Eye 
300 years past, when the Seven 

1718
01:24:11,900 --> 01:24:16,220
Kingdoms had been 7 kingdoms and
the river lands were ruled by 

1719
01:24:16,220 --> 01:24:21,340
the Iron men from the islands. 
In his pride, Heron had desired 

1720
01:24:21,340 --> 01:24:25,700
the highest hall and tallest 
towers in all Westeros. 

1721
01:24:26,430 --> 01:24:29,750
Catlin could remember hearing 
Old Nan tell the story to her 

1722
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:34,390
own children back at Winterfell,
and King Heron learned that 

1723
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:38,670
thick walls and hightowers are 
small use against Dragons. 

1724
01:24:38,870 --> 01:24:44,150
The tale always ended for 
Dragons Fly, Yeah, you can see 

1725
01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:48,430
the writing, the, the, the. 
You can draw a line from the 

1726
01:24:48,430 --> 01:24:51,870
quote laid down by those 
maesters to old Nan's quote. 

1727
01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:54,980
Quote right there where it says 
you know, not high enough to 

1728
01:24:54,980 --> 01:24:57,460
keep out Dragons, you know, for 
Dragons fly. 

1729
01:24:57,460 --> 01:25:02,020
And then here we have like that 
same line that Dragons fly, you 

1730
01:25:02,020 --> 01:25:08,420
know. 
So it's almost distinctly the 

1731
01:25:08,420 --> 01:25:09,660
same. 
It's not quite the same, the 

1732
01:25:09,660 --> 01:25:12,140
wording slightly different, but 
it's soon need to see how that 

1733
01:25:12,140 --> 01:25:16,260
has been carried down. 
The lessons of Heron Hall, 

1734
01:25:16,460 --> 01:25:20,380
perhaps exactly what Agon wanted
to intimate, wanted people to 

1735
01:25:20,380 --> 01:25:22,490
remember. 
Well, it seems to have happened 

1736
01:25:22,490 --> 01:25:24,770
and it is still happening 300 
years later. 

1737
01:25:25,090 --> 01:25:26,530
Yeah, leaving it was part of the
point. 

1738
01:25:26,530 --> 01:25:29,010
I don't think he wanted to 
completely remove the castle 

1739
01:25:29,010 --> 01:25:31,210
entirely. 
Nina's going to give us an 

1740
01:25:31,210 --> 01:25:35,490
example of Blood Raven later, 
and how it completely tore down 

1741
01:25:35,490 --> 01:25:38,250
white walls and removed any 
trace that it ever existed. 

1742
01:25:39,050 --> 01:25:41,010
It's a different school of 
thought here. 

1743
01:25:41,010 --> 01:25:46,320
One is removing a place where 
people will go to pay homage to 

1744
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,840
their fallen hero or whatever, 
Where no one saw Heron as a 

1745
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:51,640
hero. 
No one was going to do that 

1746
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:53,040
here. 
No one's be like, oh man, 

1747
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:54,680
remember when the Ironborn ruled
here? 

1748
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,600
Things were so much better. 
No one's going to say anything 

1749
01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:59,440
like that. 
They're not like, oh, what could

1750
01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:02,360
have been if only Heron's line 
had continued. 

1751
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:04,000
Oh, the great things they would 
have done. 

1752
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:06,440
Yeah, no one's thinking that 
like they were about the black 

1753
01:26:06,440 --> 01:26:09,230
fires, so it's not really a 
thing. 

1754
01:26:09,270 --> 01:26:11,990
Even other Iron Islanders might 
not think that, like I, we 

1755
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:15,150
should have never gone on land 
anyway, you know, So it's better

1756
01:26:15,310 --> 01:26:18,550
than removing it entirely from 
memory so people won't, like, 

1757
01:26:18,590 --> 01:26:21,190
yearn for that. 
It's better to leave it as this 

1758
01:26:21,190 --> 01:26:26,270
testament to what happens when 
you challenge the Dragons, what 

1759
01:26:26,270 --> 01:26:28,110
happens when you go against 
Agon, what happens when you're 

1760
01:26:28,110 --> 01:26:30,350
too proud. 
So it's a it's a number of, it 

1761
01:26:30,350 --> 01:26:32,950
teaches, a number of lessons, 
depending on what what chapter 

1762
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:34,150
were in. 
This is one of the great things 

1763
01:26:34,150 --> 01:26:37,010
about a song, fire and having 
heroin all come up so often is 

1764
01:26:37,010 --> 01:26:39,050
that different people interpret 
it different ways. 

1765
01:26:39,570 --> 01:26:44,090
Like, Jamie is like, Oh my God, 
I passed 12 murder holes just 

1766
01:26:44,090 --> 01:26:46,450
walking through the open the 
first gate to get in here. 

1767
01:26:46,450 --> 01:26:49,170
This place is absurd. 
Or Aria thinking about, you 

1768
01:26:49,170 --> 01:26:51,130
know, ghosts. 
And, like, I don't believe in 

1769
01:26:51,130 --> 01:26:53,410
ghosts, you know. 
And so she to her, it's like 

1770
01:26:54,330 --> 01:26:57,210
another way to show us her 
bravery, another way for her to 

1771
01:26:57,290 --> 01:27:01,170
be her, you know. 
Aria is almost at home there, 

1772
01:27:01,170 --> 01:27:04,000
you know, in some ways, and it's
so it's great. 

1773
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,880
And all this is because of what 
Agon did and because of what the

1774
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:09,160
building was before that. 
Like, we didn't need this 

1775
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,240
description of Agon versus 
Heron. 

1776
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,600
We'd like it, but the way it was
placed within the story was 

1777
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,800
sufficient to serve the story in
its own way. 

1778
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,560
But, you know, we're junkies and
obsessed, and we want more, and 

1779
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:23,640
George gave it to us. 
So we're going to run with that.

1780
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,320
It's interesting to think you 
know, he would never. 

1781
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:30,960
He clearly didn't envision Heron
Hall as something he wanted to 

1782
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:35,030
take for himself, cuz if he did 
he would have not devastated it 

1783
01:27:35,030 --> 01:27:38,190
so much. 
So it's a question of had he 

1784
01:27:38,190 --> 01:27:39,790
decided where his capital was 
gonna be? 

1785
01:27:39,790 --> 01:27:41,870
Had he already decided on King's
Landing at this point? 

1786
01:27:42,150 --> 01:27:46,270
Cuz if so, well, Heronel's only 
like 2 weeks right away, so it's

1787
01:27:46,270 --> 01:27:50,070
kind of cleverly placed close to
this example, this lesson. 

1788
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,600
On the other hand, he just may 
not have decided that yeah, he 

1789
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:56,280
may still have been entertaining
possibilities. 

1790
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:58,840
Like maybe he was, maybe he was 
still thinking about Old Town. 

1791
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:01,000
Or maybe he'd never considered 
Old Town and he's like, no, I 

1792
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,880
like the center. 
Maybe the Aegon Fort was he'd 

1793
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:08,320
already planned on it, 
establishing it greater, 

1794
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,120
building it more. 
It's unclear. 

1795
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:15,080
There's still a lot of unknowns 
about what Aegon's plans were. 

1796
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:19,040
He did start thinking about the 
Iron Throne, though. 

1797
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:21,080
We'll get to that in a minute, 
but it's interesting to know at 

1798
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:22,480
least. 
There's at least one thing he 

1799
01:28:22,480 --> 01:28:24,960
thought about in advance and had
decided on, apparently. 

1800
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:30,320
If he hadn't thought about 
King's Landing or decided on it,

1801
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,000
I'm sure he had candidates I'm 
sure he had like these are my 

1802
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:35,880
potentials and that was one of 
them. 

1803
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:39,600
And I I think that he had, I 
think that I think at the point 

1804
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,800
that he was negotiating with or 
attempting to negotiating with 

1805
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:46,600
Argalac. 
By reason why he was having that

1806
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:49,080
negotiation, I can see that, 
yeah. 

1807
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:52,000
I think if he hadn't had it yet,
that it was congealing in his 

1808
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:55,360
mind At that point. 
Nina also points out something 

1809
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:57,960
that's useful to remember in 
terms of the order things 

1810
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,480
happened. 
The Senya hadn't yet taken the 

1811
01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:02,560
Erie yet. 
She'd gone to the Veil and had a

1812
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:06,480
battle, a naval battle, but the 
Erie itself hadn't surrendered. 

1813
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:08,520
And apparently they yeah, they 
had a different attitude. 

1814
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:10,640
If they wanted to just torch the
Erie and forced to surrender, 

1815
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:11,800
they could have just done the 
same thing. 

1816
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:17,400
But they didn't. 
O that really speaks to a plan, 

1817
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:22,000
not just doing what comes. 
They had an idea about how they 

1818
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,400
would want to aroach this and 
and who they wanted to subjugate

1819
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,470
and who they wanted to destroy. 
It. 

1820
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:29,590
I mean it's fits it perfectly in
line with everything we've been 

1821
01:29:29,590 --> 01:29:31,510
seeing so far. 
They didn't need to set an 

1822
01:29:31,510 --> 01:29:33,710
example of them. 
They weren't bad rulers. 

1823
01:29:33,990 --> 01:29:37,510
A/B who's even going to see it? 
It's so far removed from 

1824
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:40,070
everywhere, no one's passing by.
It's not central. 

1825
01:29:40,070 --> 01:29:44,430
Like it doesn't serve to to to 
demonstrate the example. 

1826
01:29:44,430 --> 01:29:45,150
You know. 
It's a great point. 

1827
01:29:45,150 --> 01:29:47,710
Yeah. 
The Erie is is way the heck up 

1828
01:29:47,710 --> 01:29:48,150
there. 
Yeah. 

1829
01:29:48,150 --> 01:29:50,390
People don't see it very often. 
It's beautiful. 

1830
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:51,790
Most people will never see it in
their lives. 

1831
01:29:51,790 --> 01:29:54,190
But passing by Heron Hall. 
Yeah, like almost anyone. 

1832
01:29:54,190 --> 01:29:57,240
Like if you live in the River 
Lands, it's something you'll do 

1833
01:29:57,240 --> 01:29:58,840
in your lifetime. 
Maybe, you know, unless you're 

1834
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,200
just like super, super, super 
poor, maybe you can't travel 

1835
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,560
beyond your village. 
But even some, like, really poor

1836
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,680
people will have managed to see 
Heron Hall if they live in the 

1837
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:07,600
River Lands. 
But yeah, the Vale, most people 

1838
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,160
that live in the Vale will never
see the Erie. 

1839
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,160
You know, it's just too remote 
and too up there. 

1840
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:13,240
Yeah. 
And so you're right, it doesn't 

1841
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,920
serve the example. 
Plus it's just a Heron Hall is 

1842
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:21,200
like this kind of brutal and 
gross symbol of of pride and 

1843
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:24,400
it's it's a poorly designed 
thing in the 1st place. 

1844
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,000
It's too big. 
Whereas The Erie is beautiful 

1845
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:29,520
and elegant and like, it would 
be a shame to destroy that. 

1846
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:30,800
It wasn't a shame to destroy 
her. 

1847
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,400
I mean, it kind of was, but not 
in the same way. 

1848
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:35,000
It wasn't a work of art, you 
know? 

1849
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:40,480
Yeah, and it probably isn't a 
good place anyway. 

1850
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:45,040
Besides that, as far as like 
just the the the demands of the 

1851
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:48,480
place to supply it and and keep 
it running is just yeah. 

1852
01:30:49,340 --> 01:30:50,740
That'd be fair. 
The Erie has some of those 

1853
01:30:50,740 --> 01:30:51,740
troubles, too. 
You're right. 

1854
01:30:51,740 --> 01:30:53,620
They have to bring food off. 
They can't live there in the 

1855
01:30:53,620 --> 01:30:54,780
winter at all. 
Like that's. 

1856
01:30:54,780 --> 01:30:56,060
Yeah, that's kind of a silly 
but. 

1857
01:30:57,180 --> 01:30:59,260
But they're not trying to rely 
on it in the same way. 

1858
01:30:59,260 --> 01:31:00,140
Yeah. 
So you're right. 

1859
01:31:00,140 --> 01:31:03,060
Yeah. 
There's still a little what's it

1860
01:31:03,060 --> 01:31:09,300
called arrogance in the worked 
into the blueprints there some 

1861
01:31:09,300 --> 01:31:11,340
hoity toity. 
All right. 

1862
01:31:11,340 --> 01:31:16,810
So continuing on in terms of how
the lesson stands, like, think 

1863
01:31:16,810 --> 01:31:19,410
about how it comes up in The 
Dance of the Dragons. 

1864
01:31:19,410 --> 01:31:21,770
Right there's it's the place 
where they meet for the Great 

1865
01:31:21,770 --> 01:31:23,450
Council. 
It still has this great 

1866
01:31:23,450 --> 01:31:27,290
prestige, and it it's big enough
to house all those Lords and 

1867
01:31:27,290 --> 01:31:30,610
ladies in a centrally reachable 
location. 

1868
01:31:30,970 --> 01:31:33,370
Well, not all of. 
Them and everyone gets to see. 

1869
01:31:33,410 --> 01:31:36,570
Yeah, everyone's reminding. 
This is what the Dragons can do.

1870
01:31:36,570 --> 01:31:39,570
Everyone come to Heron Hall for 
this meeting and take note. 

1871
01:31:39,610 --> 01:31:43,010
Take note, burnt down towers. 
We're only voting for Targaryens

1872
01:31:43,010 --> 01:31:45,950
here. 
And when you vote for Targaryen,

1873
01:31:45,950 --> 01:31:50,550
maybe keep in mind which dragon 
they happen to ride, because oh,

1874
01:31:50,550 --> 01:31:53,830
the guy who rides Balerian is 
the one we voted for. 

1875
01:31:53,830 --> 01:31:55,950
Is it? 
Yes, cuz Becerra's won the Great

1876
01:31:55,950 --> 01:31:57,630
Council, Becerra's Rider of 
Blair. 

1877
01:31:57,630 --> 01:32:01,750
Now Blair was dead by then, but 
still it may have had a little 

1878
01:32:01,750 --> 01:32:06,110
bit of it may have helped a 
little bit cuz he was worthy of 

1879
01:32:06,110 --> 01:32:09,230
Balerian in the 1st place. 
Maybe even though he just wanted

1880
01:32:09,230 --> 01:32:12,590
to do his books and models. 
Not everyone knew that. 

1881
01:32:13,430 --> 01:32:16,150
I'm sure they propped him up a 
bit like writer of Balerian 

1882
01:32:16,150 --> 01:32:21,680
y'all 10 years ago. 
But even aside from whatever 

1883
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:25,040
angle who you vote for might be,
there's still just the reminder 

1884
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:26,600
that the Targaryens have the 
power. 

1885
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:29,400
Yeah, your castles are not safe,
that castle. 

1886
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:31,240
You better stay with it. 
That castle still melted. 

1887
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:32,640
Still nobody fixed that, you 
know. 

1888
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:34,160
Still no one repaired that, you 
know. 

1889
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:36,520
Yeah. 
Did they what? 

1890
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:38,400
You wonder if that's part of why
like did. 

1891
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,000
I don't want to take their 
symbol away like the Targaryens 

1892
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,850
keep pointing at this as like 
it's their example. 

1893
01:32:43,850 --> 01:32:46,090
I don't want to, like, undo 
their example like I'm the Lord 

1894
01:32:46,090 --> 01:32:47,650
of Heron Hall. 
Do I want to rebuild these? 

1895
01:32:47,690 --> 01:32:49,810
First of all, it would be too 
expensive, probably, but maybe 

1896
01:32:49,810 --> 01:32:52,090
even just one of them rebuild 
one of the towers so that it's 

1897
01:32:52,090 --> 01:32:54,170
nice and whole and not all melty
and weird. 

1898
01:32:54,530 --> 01:32:56,090
But they didn't. 
No one's even done that. 

1899
01:32:56,090 --> 01:32:58,250
So I wonder if that's part of, 
like, no, we don't. 

1900
01:32:58,370 --> 01:33:00,610
We don't touch the Targaryen 
lesson. 

1901
01:33:01,810 --> 01:33:03,690
It's still there. 
But even when like, Robert's 

1902
01:33:03,690 --> 01:33:06,810
there, well, the ruler of Heron 
Hall at that point is dirt poor 

1903
01:33:06,810 --> 01:33:10,210
because because Heron Hall is 
well, it's it's a white 

1904
01:33:10,210 --> 01:33:11,450
elephant. 
You know it. 

1905
01:33:11,970 --> 01:33:15,460
It's its expenses are more than 
its profits. 

1906
01:33:15,460 --> 01:33:19,300
So of course you're not building
new towers on it at that point. 

1907
01:33:19,300 --> 01:33:22,220
But maybe earlier when it was 
first given away, that wasn't 

1908
01:33:22,220 --> 01:33:24,020
the problem right. 
Which, and we'll come back to 

1909
01:33:24,020 --> 01:33:26,260
that a little later. 
We're not quite ready to talk 

1910
01:33:26,260 --> 01:33:29,980
about the the Remade River 
lands, although that is 

1911
01:33:29,980 --> 01:33:32,900
imminent. 
Here's another quote about what 

1912
01:33:32,900 --> 01:33:35,660
it looks like 300 years later 
Quote. 

1913
01:33:36,390 --> 01:33:40,390
Herrin Paul's Gate house, itself
as large as Winterfell's great 

1914
01:33:40,390 --> 01:33:43,710
keep, was as scarred as it was 
massive. 

1915
01:33:44,150 --> 01:33:48,190
Its stones fissured and 
discolored from outside. 

1916
01:33:48,590 --> 01:33:52,830
Only the tops of five immense 
towers could be seen beyond the 

1917
01:33:52,830 --> 01:33:55,310
walls. 
The shortest of them was half 

1918
01:33:55,310 --> 01:33:58,870
again as tall as the highest 
tower in Winterfell, but they 

1919
01:33:58,870 --> 01:34:01,550
did not soar the way a proper 
tower did. 

1920
01:34:02,180 --> 01:34:06,460
Arya thought they looked like 
some old man's gnarled knuckly 

1921
01:34:06,460 --> 01:34:09,180
fingers groping after a passing 
cloud. 

1922
01:34:09,580 --> 01:34:13,700
She remembered Nan telling how 
the stone had melted and flowed 

1923
01:34:13,700 --> 01:34:18,180
like candle wax down the steps 
and in the windows, glowing A 

1924
01:34:18,180 --> 01:34:22,540
sullen, searing red as it sought
out Heron where he hid. 

1925
01:34:23,140 --> 01:34:27,430
Arya could believe every word. 
Each tower was more grotesque 

1926
01:34:27,630 --> 01:34:32,150
and misshapen than the last 
Lumpy and Ronald and Cracked. 

1927
01:34:32,710 --> 01:34:35,710
I don't want to go there, Hop 
High squeaked as Heron Hall 

1928
01:34:35,710 --> 01:34:38,510
opened its gates to them. 
There's ghosts in there. 

1929
01:34:40,230 --> 01:34:43,470
Jinkies. 
This is like a scooby-doo. 

1930
01:34:44,670 --> 01:34:49,390
It's that's really an amazing 
description of Heron Hall and 

1931
01:34:49,390 --> 01:34:52,460
it's it's almost kind of like 
where George kind of jumps out 

1932
01:34:52,460 --> 01:34:56,660
of his historian boots to be his
true author self to write. 

1933
01:34:56,820 --> 01:35:00,780
It's like is Aria really having 
these really descriptive 

1934
01:35:00,780 --> 01:35:03,740
thoughts or is that just that's 
George's prose, Like Aria the 

1935
01:35:03,860 --> 01:35:08,220
the 10 year old isn't thinking 
and words this large. 

1936
01:35:08,220 --> 01:35:10,460
Yeah, yeah. 
She's not thinking, it's 

1937
01:35:10,740 --> 01:35:11,420
poetically. 
She might. 

1938
01:35:11,420 --> 01:35:13,780
She's inspired by old man. 
Yeah, yeah, she's yeah, she's 

1939
01:35:13,780 --> 01:35:15,140
just repeating what she heard 
from old man. 

1940
01:35:16,210 --> 01:35:19,090
Which I wonder, by the way, how 
does Old Man have this? 

1941
01:35:19,290 --> 01:35:21,050
Such a it was all, yeah, it was 
all that she. 

1942
01:35:21,130 --> 01:35:22,850
Go there. 
Did she get told the story by 

1943
01:35:22,850 --> 01:35:24,650
other people that went there? 
I wonder too. 

1944
01:35:24,650 --> 01:35:27,570
It sounds like it's a common 
enough story, but her version of

1945
01:35:27,570 --> 01:35:29,930
it's fairly accurate. 
It's not like it's not as crazy 

1946
01:35:29,930 --> 01:35:32,170
as some of her other stories you
know, that don't that aren't as 

1947
01:35:32,170 --> 01:35:35,290
believable, even if even if some
of those might have a grain of 

1948
01:35:35,290 --> 01:35:40,170
truth to them, This one is. 
It doesn't require a lot of 

1949
01:35:40,170 --> 01:35:41,450
embellishment. 
That's what thing that makes it 

1950
01:35:41,450 --> 01:35:43,670
so interesting. 
It's so great this one. 

1951
01:35:43,710 --> 01:35:46,350
Might have a grain of 
exaggeration, yeah, But yeah, 

1952
01:35:46,510 --> 01:35:47,790
but it's mostly true. 
Yeah. 

1953
01:35:48,150 --> 01:35:49,670
And it's such a great 
description. 

1954
01:35:49,710 --> 01:35:52,870
I love the line, Aria, that they
looked like some old man's 

1955
01:35:52,870 --> 01:35:55,390
gnarled knuckly fingers groping 
after a passing cloud. 

1956
01:35:55,390 --> 01:35:58,790
Which is like, that's basically 
Heron's strategy against blurry 

1957
01:35:58,790 --> 01:36:01,950
and like, oh, get him, We'll 
just knock him down somehow, 

1958
01:36:02,150 --> 01:36:03,470
somehow. 
It'll work out. 

1959
01:36:03,470 --> 01:36:05,870
We'll take him out of the sky. 
Yeah, You may as well have been 

1960
01:36:05,870 --> 01:36:08,710
trying to grab a passing cloud 
with your old gnarled knuckly 

1961
01:36:08,710 --> 01:36:09,470
fingers. 
Heron. 

1962
01:36:10,610 --> 01:36:13,450
So yeah, that's pretty cool. 
And just how far they've melted.

1963
01:36:13,450 --> 01:36:17,090
I mean, these towers really just
like they really they're they're

1964
01:36:17,090 --> 01:36:20,850
still really tall. 
But the glowing, A sullen, 

1965
01:36:20,850 --> 01:36:23,890
searing red as it sought out 
hair and where he hid, There's 

1966
01:36:23,890 --> 01:36:25,970
like onomatopoeia in there. 
Like, are we? 

1967
01:36:25,970 --> 01:36:28,210
Ari is the God. 
She's a she's a poet in the 

1968
01:36:28,210 --> 01:36:29,370
making. 
She doesn't know it. 

1969
01:36:29,370 --> 01:36:30,330
She's a poet and doesn't know 
it. 

1970
01:36:30,330 --> 01:36:32,090
Yeah. 
So is hot pie. 

1971
01:36:34,370 --> 01:36:36,210
Yeah. 
Aegon's lesson was so effective.

1972
01:36:36,210 --> 01:36:38,130
The Fall of Heron, such a 
compelling tale that. 

1973
01:36:38,130 --> 01:36:40,410
Yeah, it's accurately 
remembered. 

1974
01:36:40,410 --> 01:36:43,170
As we just said, I'm kind of 
repeating myself, but you got to

1975
01:36:43,170 --> 01:36:45,370
my notes before I did. 
Shawn, you said the same thing. 

1976
01:36:45,370 --> 01:36:48,810
Well, well, well played. 222 
minds thinking alike. 

1977
01:36:49,010 --> 01:36:51,610
Notice I didn't say great minds,
just two minds thinking alike, 

1978
01:36:53,690 --> 01:36:55,810
which is part of the like. 
So the embellishment here is 

1979
01:36:55,810 --> 01:36:58,330
pretty minor. 
It's the seeking out hair and 

1980
01:36:58,330 --> 01:37:01,370
where he hid like, OK, I don't 
know, the flames were seeking 

1981
01:37:01,370 --> 01:37:03,050
him out. 
That's poetic license. 

1982
01:37:03,330 --> 01:37:04,930
But that's basically what 
happened. 

1983
01:37:05,380 --> 01:37:08,940
He was in there until the flames
overwhelmed him and then he was 

1984
01:37:08,980 --> 01:37:12,420
a charred heap of ash. 
So yeah, it it didn't seek him 

1985
01:37:12,420 --> 01:37:16,300
out, but it was inexorable and 
destroyed everything in its 

1986
01:37:16,300 --> 01:37:19,340
path. 
So yeah, we're just assigning 

1987
01:37:19,340 --> 01:37:22,780
some personality to the flames. 
You know we're we're giving it a

1988
01:37:22,780 --> 01:37:24,940
brain here. 
But it's it it that is what 

1989
01:37:24,940 --> 01:37:27,020
happened as terms of the the end
result. 

1990
01:37:28,700 --> 01:37:31,860
So the topic of ghosts in Heron 
Hall like Heron being angry that

1991
01:37:31,860 --> 01:37:36,140
all his pride, all his 
confidence was like carried over

1992
01:37:36,140 --> 01:37:38,100
into the afterlife. 
That's why he's still alive. 

1993
01:37:38,100 --> 01:37:40,340
That's why he's a ghost because 
he was you know that's that's 

1994
01:37:40,340 --> 01:37:44,260
that's often how ghost stories 
are are told like someone was 

1995
01:37:44,420 --> 01:37:48,220
had such intense emotion or they
were so deeply betrayed. 

1996
01:37:48,460 --> 01:37:52,340
The murder, like they're the 
wife, was murdered by the 

1997
01:37:52,340 --> 01:37:54,900
husband and it was such a 
betrayal that her ghost lingered

1998
01:37:54,900 --> 01:37:56,980
because it was so horrific. 
That kind of thing, like some 

1999
01:37:56,980 --> 01:38:00,100
intense emotion enabled them to 
linger. 

2000
01:38:00,500 --> 01:38:03,480
But it's added in with the the 
burning aspect, because the 

2001
01:38:03,480 --> 01:38:06,520
ghosts of Heron Hall are 
supposedly burning ghosts and 

2002
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:11,400
their stories about people 
burned in their sleep or fires 

2003
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:16,640
starting and other things like 
that, and well, it's a bigger 

2004
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:18,160
topic than we have time for 
today. 

2005
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:19,720
Heron Hall is a huge topic, of 
course. 

2006
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:22,400
The 4th most popular location in
all of Song of Ice and Fire. 

2007
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:25,040
Maybe even third. 
Of course there's going to be a 

2008
01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:27,360
lot to say about that, even 
though it's only 300 years old. 

2009
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:29,720
But the ghost thing? 
That's something I want to come 

2010
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:32,360
back to later. 
I just want to mention one thing

2011
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:34,160
though. 
There's there's definite 

2012
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:36,640
evidence of ghosts, but there's 
also evidence that it might be 

2013
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:41,040
just mundane. 
Think of how how okay, how big 

2014
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:44,640
is a shadow from a flame? 
It can be really big. 

2015
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:49,760
Like, think about the the first 
John chapter, The flames of 

2016
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:53,040
Tyrion, the cast Tyrion shadow 
make him stand as tall as a 

2017
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,360
king, because that's the the 
trick of the light. 

2018
01:38:56,320 --> 01:39:00,920
Aaron Hall has enormous 
fireplaces, enormous rooms. 

2019
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:05,880
The shadows cast in that place 
would be huge. 

2020
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:08,680
The echoes in that place would 
be huge. 

2021
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:12,080
So it's going to sound ghostly, 
huge shadows. 

2022
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:15,400
Like, that's just my starter. 
That's my little teaser for the 

2023
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:18,040
mundane side. 
But of course, this is George R 

2024
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:19,200
Martin. 
He's not going to just make it 

2025
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:20,320
all mundane. 
He's going to do both. 

2026
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:21,640
He does going to do what he 
always does. 

2027
01:39:22,540 --> 01:39:25,660
There's the soup. 
There's the mundane explainable,

2028
01:39:25,900 --> 01:39:30,300
but also creepy mixed with the 
supernatural. 

2029
01:39:30,300 --> 01:39:31,340
He does. 
He does both. 

2030
01:39:31,340 --> 01:39:33,500
So I think that's that's where I
land on that. 

2031
01:39:34,780 --> 01:39:39,900
You know, a quick thought in 
this is it if there's one in X, 

2032
01:39:40,140 --> 01:39:43,300
people have ghosts, right? 
Like, I don't know how it works 

2033
01:39:43,300 --> 01:39:45,420
or, but however you might 
suppose it works. 

2034
01:39:47,170 --> 01:39:49,610
If everyone had a ghost, there 
would be like billions of ghosts

2035
01:39:49,610 --> 01:39:50,890
all the round. 
There wouldn't be any question 

2036
01:39:50,890 --> 01:39:51,890
we would know it for sure, 
right? 

2037
01:39:52,570 --> 01:39:56,050
But since it seems to be kind of
rare and special, it's maybe 

2038
01:39:56,050 --> 01:39:58,730
some percentage. 
Well, a lot of people died in 

2039
01:39:58,730 --> 01:40:01,570
here and hall all at once, so 
there would be a higher chance 

2040
01:40:01,570 --> 01:40:04,210
of there being a ghost, right? 
And if part of being a ghost 

2041
01:40:04,210 --> 01:40:06,900
maybe has to do with like. 
Fulfilling something that you 

2042
01:40:06,900 --> 01:40:10,260
didn't get to Well, when a bunch
of people suddenly die in their 

2043
01:40:10,260 --> 01:40:13,260
sleep when they weren't expected
to, then there's more drive for 

2044
01:40:13,260 --> 01:40:15,700
the ghost to be haunting the. 
Rumors really spread. 

2045
01:40:15,700 --> 01:40:17,580
It's already primed. 
Like anything, anytime something

2046
01:40:17,580 --> 01:40:19,900
goes bad at Heron Hall, people 
are ready to go up. 

2047
01:40:19,900 --> 01:40:22,580
That's the curse of Heron there.
There's already a prelaid 

2048
01:40:22,580 --> 01:40:26,780
reason, premade reason for 
people's reaction and that just 

2049
01:40:26,780 --> 01:40:29,580
keeps the rumors going. 
And which is part of why the the

2050
01:40:29,580 --> 01:40:33,100
visuals of the place, the fact 
that it's still used, the story 

2051
01:40:33,100 --> 01:40:35,710
is lingering. 
That's part of why all the 

2052
01:40:35,710 --> 01:40:37,590
stories. 
And maybe he built it on native 

2053
01:40:37,590 --> 01:40:39,950
burial ground. 
Maybe he built it on the 

2054
01:40:39,950 --> 01:40:43,270
werewolf children of the forest.
Yeah, they're not wrong, that 

2055
01:40:43,270 --> 01:40:44,430
theory. 
Yep, you're totally. 

2056
01:40:44,430 --> 01:40:47,910
Yeah, that's that's a valid guy 
element for sure. 

2057
01:40:47,910 --> 01:40:51,110
Yeah. 
So let's set aside the ghosts 

2058
01:40:51,110 --> 01:40:52,550
for now and come back that some 
other time. 

2059
01:40:52,550 --> 01:40:55,630
Let's be more like Aria for now 
with this next quote. 

2060
01:40:56,590 --> 01:41:00,190
If there were ghosts in Heron 
Hall, they never troubled her. 

2061
01:41:00,670 --> 01:41:04,230
It was the living men she 
feared, wise and Sir Gregor 

2062
01:41:04,230 --> 01:41:07,670
Clagaine and Lord Tywin 
Lannister himself who kept his 

2063
01:41:07,670 --> 01:41:12,030
apartments in Kingspire Tower, 
still the tallest and mightiest 

2064
01:41:12,030 --> 01:41:16,590
of all, the lopsided beneath the
weight of the slag and stone 

2065
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:21,430
that made it look like some 
giant half melted black candle. 

2066
01:41:21,630 --> 01:41:23,190
Here we are with that candle 
metaphor again. 

2067
01:41:23,190 --> 01:41:25,510
It comes up a bunch of times. 
That wasn't me calling it the 

2068
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:27,670
candle. 
That's just how George repeats 

2069
01:41:27,670 --> 01:41:30,170
that. 
Burning tower like a giant 

2070
01:41:30,170 --> 01:41:32,570
burning black candle or five of 
them as it as it were. 

2071
01:41:33,330 --> 01:41:37,170
So Yep, it's pretty big deal. 
But yet powerful people still 

2072
01:41:37,170 --> 01:41:41,210
use the place. 
It still has that gravitas 

2073
01:41:41,330 --> 01:41:44,210
right? 
Like Tywin takes up the position

2074
01:41:44,690 --> 01:41:46,410
like it says in there in the 
King's fire tower. 

2075
01:41:46,410 --> 01:41:50,770
He sets up his office there and 
just makes use of it in terms of

2076
01:41:50,770 --> 01:41:52,730
not just in terms of it as an 
office, but in terms of. 

2077
01:41:54,250 --> 01:41:57,930
It's dangerous and ominous and 
damaged, and as a symbol of 

2078
01:41:57,930 --> 01:42:01,010
power, it's a guy who likes to 
rule by fear. 

2079
01:42:01,010 --> 01:42:03,650
You can see how he would just 
slide right into that and make 

2080
01:42:03,650 --> 01:42:08,010
it part of his, part of how 
people view him. 

2081
01:42:08,050 --> 01:42:11,170
You know, like that's the guy 
that has no problem standing up 

2082
01:42:11,170 --> 01:42:14,490
to the socalled Curse of Heron. 
Didn't, maybe didn't work out 

2083
01:42:14,490 --> 01:42:18,330
for him since he died horribly, 
though not in Heron Hall. 

2084
01:42:18,330 --> 01:42:20,570
So maybe, maybe that's not 
related. 

2085
01:42:20,570 --> 01:42:22,690
But still, he did come to an 
awful end. 

2086
01:42:22,690 --> 01:42:25,840
And as do. 
Most people who go to Heron 

2087
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:27,440
Hall. 
There's still a few people like 

2088
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:31,080
Roose Bolton hasn't had a 
horrible end yet, but he did 

2089
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:35,160
rule Heron Hall for a while, so 
that's another thing. 

2090
01:42:35,160 --> 01:42:37,920
Likes Tywin can twist it into 
his advantage and show his own 

2091
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:43,400
like courage or his own ability 
to make Heron Hall his like, oh,

2092
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:44,960
this is dangerous, cursed 
castle. 

2093
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:48,120
But Lord Tywin is strong enough 
to make it his, you know, so it 

2094
01:42:48,120 --> 01:42:50,960
still works that way as a 
symbol, sort of in a reverse 

2095
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:53,070
manner. 
And again, there is still this 

2096
01:42:53,070 --> 01:42:56,950
practical nature that even if 
the towers are burned, there's 

2097
01:42:56,950 --> 01:43:01,910
still basements and vaults and 
walls and armories and 

2098
01:43:01,910 --> 01:43:05,270
blacksmiths and fireplaces. 
It's it still has a lot of 

2099
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:07,190
infrastructure that with a lot 
of values. 

2100
01:43:07,510 --> 01:43:10,390
Yeah, absolutely there. 
There is much and much of that 

2101
01:43:10,390 --> 01:43:16,300
much and more of that, indeed. 
Let's see. 

2102
01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:19,380
Next up, we're going to talk 
about the beginning of the Iron 

2103
01:43:19,380 --> 01:43:21,780
Throne. 
We briefly brought it up, but 

2104
01:43:22,180 --> 01:43:25,540
let's go a little deeper into 
that topic and started off with 

2105
01:43:26,420 --> 01:43:29,580
a quote. 
When the ashes had cooled enough

2106
01:43:29,580 --> 01:43:33,460
to allow men to enter the castle
safely, the swords of the 

2107
01:43:33,460 --> 01:43:38,420
fallen, many shattered or melted
or twisted into ribbons of steel

2108
01:43:38,420 --> 01:43:40,660
by dragon fire, were gathered 
up. 

2109
01:43:41,060 --> 01:43:43,700
And sent back to the Aegon Fort 
in wagons. 

2110
01:43:43,940 --> 01:43:46,580
So I think this sort of backs up
your theory a bit, Sean, that he

2111
01:43:46,580 --> 01:43:49,740
was already thinking of King's 
Landing as his site because he's

2112
01:43:49,740 --> 01:43:53,740
hauling those the ingredients, 
the ingredients, the the medal 

2113
01:43:53,900 --> 01:43:57,780
for his throne, which is clearly
where his going to put his 

2114
01:43:57,780 --> 01:44:00,940
capital, where his throne is. 
He's already got this part 

2115
01:44:00,940 --> 01:44:03,020
planned out. 
So would you really haul all 

2116
01:44:03,020 --> 01:44:07,220
that to to a place and then haul
it again somewhere else? 

2117
01:44:08,550 --> 01:44:10,790
Maybe you might, You might 
change your mind, but it's 

2118
01:44:10,790 --> 01:44:13,630
unlikely it seems so. 
It seems like he already had 

2119
01:44:13,630 --> 01:44:16,750
this idea that that he didn't 
have enough swords yet, 

2120
01:44:16,910 --> 01:44:22,790
certainly, but he was on his way
and that process it started. 

2121
01:44:23,710 --> 01:44:28,190
This is the the first mention of
the Thrones beginning, although 

2122
01:44:28,190 --> 01:44:29,710
it isn't called the Iron Throne 
yet. 

2123
01:44:30,110 --> 01:44:33,890
It's just. 
Talked about the fact that he's 

2124
01:44:33,890 --> 01:44:35,650
gathering swords. 
It doesn't say why. 

2125
01:44:35,650 --> 01:44:38,530
We know why, but it technically 
doesn't say that yet. 

2126
01:44:38,530 --> 01:44:42,570
So let's think about that. 
Turn that around a bit. 

2127
01:44:43,330 --> 01:44:45,490
What are his subordinates 
thinking? 

2128
01:44:45,490 --> 01:44:47,090
Do they know? 
Cuz he seems like a guy that 

2129
01:44:47,090 --> 01:44:50,090
doesn't just say all his plans, 
he seems like he keeps a lot of 

2130
01:44:50,090 --> 01:44:52,690
his plans close to the chest and
then reveals them later or when 

2131
01:44:52,690 --> 01:44:56,730
he needs to, which is one of the
few things we can say maybe 

2132
01:44:56,730 --> 01:44:59,460
about his personality. 
So you wonder like what is he 

2133
01:44:59,660 --> 01:45:02,620
doing with all those swords. 
Maybe he maybe he said so and 

2134
01:45:02,620 --> 01:45:04,540
it's just not mentioned here. 
Maybe he's like, yeah I'm going 

2135
01:45:04,540 --> 01:45:05,980
to build a throne out of this, 
but I don't think so. 

2136
01:45:05,980 --> 01:45:09,180
I think he wanted just maybe 
surprise people overall them 

2137
01:45:09,180 --> 01:45:11,900
with it when they first saw it 
maybe or once they learned what 

2138
01:45:11,900 --> 01:45:15,260
he was doing, they would be like
whoa, but just telling them in 

2139
01:45:15,260 --> 01:45:17,740
advance that it kind of you kind
of lose the surprise fact kind 

2140
01:45:17,740 --> 01:45:19,140
of lose some of that oomph I 
guess. 

2141
01:45:19,340 --> 01:45:21,020
I'm not sure about that though. 
What do you what do you think? 

2142
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:24,200
I could make a lot of my own 
point, counterpoints. 

2143
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:27,520
I think that he might not have 
had this idea of the Iron Throne

2144
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:33,800
just yet, that I still think 
that he had at least tentative 

2145
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:38,040
plans for King's Landing. 
And whether or not he had an 

2146
01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:41,240
idea for the Iron Throne or not,
he might have been hauling all 

2147
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:44,640
this metal there just to make 
more swords and more armor, more

2148
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:48,360
sales, more building material. 
Yeah, there's a value to it. 

2149
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:50,860
It's kind of a mess. 
He doesn't want someone else to 

2150
01:45:50,860 --> 01:45:52,780
get hold of it on the. 
Other hand he's only taking 

2151
01:45:52,820 --> 01:45:56,700
swords it says which is but that
might be what. 

2152
01:45:56,700 --> 01:45:58,260
You're still right though. 
That's might be what people are 

2153
01:45:58,260 --> 01:46:00,220
thinking like OK, he wants like 
cuz this is this would be the 

2154
01:46:00,220 --> 01:46:02,260
best steal the ones that make 
swords out of it. 

2155
01:46:02,870 --> 01:46:04,950
And it also might be what people
were noticing more. 

2156
01:46:04,950 --> 01:46:09,590
If you have this sort of mesh of
molten steel that some is swords

2157
01:46:09,590 --> 01:46:12,470
and some is armor, but you have 
these spikes of blades sticking 

2158
01:46:12,470 --> 01:46:14,350
out, well that's what you're 
going to call it is the melted 

2159
01:46:14,350 --> 01:46:16,830
swords and maybe not recognized 
or understand there's some 

2160
01:46:17,190 --> 01:46:18,270
that's true, they might be in 
there too. 

2161
01:46:18,350 --> 01:46:20,190
Fused metal, that's true. 
They wouldn't all just be. 

2162
01:46:20,190 --> 01:46:22,270
It couldn't be 100% swords. 
There would be a little bit of 

2163
01:46:22,390 --> 01:46:25,790
stuff in there, yeah. 
And here someone might have 

2164
01:46:25,790 --> 01:46:29,480
noticed, like I can make 
something symbolic out of this 

2165
01:46:29,480 --> 01:46:33,960
and and may have still used many
of those swords to make new 

2166
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:35,680
swords and new armor and 
everything else. 

2167
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:40,400
But it set enough aside that 
like that the symbolic meaning 

2168
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:44,040
of a throne made out of these 
swords might be more valuable 

2169
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:48,640
than more swords. 
And even if he didn't have the 

2170
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:50,880
idea for the Iron Throne yet 
when he was guiding swords up, 

2171
01:46:53,470 --> 01:46:55,750
still having all this stuff 
brought to the Eggon Fort is 

2172
01:46:55,750 --> 01:46:57,750
still an indication that that 
was going to be a center of 

2173
01:46:57,750 --> 01:46:59,590
operations, right? 
Even if you just plan on making 

2174
01:46:59,590 --> 01:47:02,670
more swords and armor at the 
Eggons Fort from this stuff, 

2175
01:47:02,670 --> 01:47:06,630
it's still an indication that 
that was a place he had plans 

2176
01:47:06,630 --> 01:47:07,910
for. 
So yeah, yeah. 

2177
01:47:08,750 --> 01:47:11,470
Also, just to think about the 
fact that it says when the ashes

2178
01:47:11,470 --> 01:47:14,150
have cooled enough to allow men 
to enter the castle safely. 

2179
01:47:14,430 --> 01:47:16,510
I think that's probably not 
exactly right. 

2180
01:47:16,510 --> 01:47:18,870
There's a lot of ways in the 
castle and I can't imagine every

2181
01:47:18,870 --> 01:47:22,340
single entryway was. 
Too hot to walk in because 

2182
01:47:22,340 --> 01:47:24,780
there's like posture and gates 
and like, I don't know that he 

2183
01:47:25,180 --> 01:47:28,220
just torched the main gate house
that Jamie walked through, for 

2184
01:47:28,220 --> 01:47:29,780
example. 
Or if the entire place was too 

2185
01:47:29,780 --> 01:47:31,540
hot. 
I think he's this is just 

2186
01:47:31,540 --> 01:47:33,860
certain locations within the 
castle stayed too hot for a 

2187
01:47:33,860 --> 01:47:35,180
while. 
They were basically like a an 

2188
01:47:35,180 --> 01:47:38,740
ongoing oven, you know, just a 
tight, tight or relatively tight

2189
01:47:38,740 --> 01:47:40,380
space. 
With all that heat that's 

2190
01:47:40,380 --> 01:47:42,500
lingering in, it would take a 
while for it to cool off. 

2191
01:47:42,540 --> 01:47:45,940
And they're not doing any 
anything to to facilitate that 

2192
01:47:45,940 --> 01:47:47,500
quicker. 
They're not like dumping water 

2193
01:47:47,500 --> 01:47:49,580
on it, like there'd be too much 
of that. 

2194
01:47:50,380 --> 01:47:52,780
Maybe their entrances that 
weren't burnt down. 

2195
01:47:52,820 --> 01:47:55,620
But still, if you try to go 
through those entrances, it's 

2196
01:47:55,620 --> 01:47:58,100
too hot to breathe. 
So some parts of the castle 

2197
01:47:58,100 --> 01:48:00,660
would be off limits. 
Some parts, you know, maybe, 

2198
01:48:00,660 --> 01:48:02,140
maybe the whole thing is still 
just too bad. 

2199
01:48:02,140 --> 01:48:04,180
Which would, if that's the case,
if it's worse than we think, 

2200
01:48:04,500 --> 01:48:08,580
then that would take us back to 
where we were before in saying, 

2201
01:48:08,580 --> 01:48:11,700
well, maybe there were many, so,
so many survivors after all. 

2202
01:48:11,700 --> 01:48:14,140
Maybe it was just so damn hot 
there had to be sheltered that 

2203
01:48:14,140 --> 01:48:18,360
the place is just so big. 
Yeah, even if the entrance isn't

2204
01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:20,960
burnt down, but if you go 
through it, it's too hot to live

2205
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:23,120
in. 
That doesn't mean that 3 levels 

2206
01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:25,880
of basement underneath couldn't 
still be good enough to live. 

2207
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:28,600
And there's a bunch of food and 
water store down there we know. 

2208
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:30,960
So you know, a couple 100 people
might have made it. 

2209
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:32,920
Yeah. 
And the Godswood is like 20 

2210
01:48:32,920 --> 01:48:34,960
acres or something absurdly huge
like that. 

2211
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:38,040
So I think it's 20 acres. 
Yeah, like Winterfells is like 3

2212
01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:40,400
acres and and and the Heron 
Halls is like 20. 

2213
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:43,960
So it's a huge amount of space 
of unburned area, like a lot of 

2214
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:45,120
people would have taken refuge 
there. 

2215
01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:47,480
That's. 
A sensible place to go just in 

2216
01:48:47,480 --> 01:48:50,760
general if you're if you're 
pretty sure he's not going to 

2217
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:52,520
target it, you might think it's 
the last place you want to go. 

2218
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:54,160
Like, well, that place is just 
any second now. 

2219
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:58,120
He's going to burn that. 
But what an awesome story that 

2220
01:48:58,120 --> 01:48:59,400
would be. 
By the way some sort of like 

2221
01:48:59,400 --> 01:49:02,120
future thing George does or some
fan fiction that someone writes 

2222
01:49:02,120 --> 01:49:06,720
about like the the prisoners of 
the dungeon of Heron Hall. 

2223
01:49:07,370 --> 01:49:13,650
You know they were down there in
jail, but you know wake up to 

2224
01:49:13,650 --> 01:49:17,450
realize Heron's dead, the 
building's burned down, but they

2225
01:49:17,450 --> 01:49:19,250
survived. 
Do they still get executed as 

2226
01:49:19,250 --> 01:49:21,050
prisoners? 
They started that down there 

2227
01:49:21,050 --> 01:49:24,410
waiting for survivor or do they 
get released and tell stories? 

2228
01:49:24,410 --> 01:49:26,410
That would be someone I want to 
know that that. 

2229
01:49:26,410 --> 01:49:28,130
Would be great, yeah. 
You could find out what happened

2230
01:49:28,130 --> 01:49:30,090
with those characters, like some
of them would have just been 

2231
01:49:30,090 --> 01:49:33,330
other river Lords that that 
Heron had imprisoned and or or 

2232
01:49:33,330 --> 01:49:35,210
just other men. 
So they would just be let go and

2233
01:49:35,210 --> 01:49:37,090
we'd be happy to spend the knee 
to egg on. 

2234
01:49:37,480 --> 01:49:40,360
They'd be like where'd you come 
from man I've been down here for

2235
01:49:40,360 --> 01:49:42,920
10 years I haven't heard 
anything that's been going on 

2236
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:49,160
That's that's great thanks. 
Yeah some of them might yeah 

2237
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,400
some of them might have been 
pretty important because he we 

2238
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:54,920
see that at when Ari is there 
there's there's important of 

2239
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:57,880
course that's a whole thing with
the they're false prisoners that

2240
01:49:57,880 --> 01:50:00,600
are let out and they attack the 
place from the inside or we're 

2241
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:02,560
not bringing up any kind of 
theory like that for this but 

2242
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:04,760
they're still there would be 
interesting people down there in

2243
01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:08,390
those dungeons that. 
I mean this, this goes with our 

2244
01:50:08,390 --> 01:50:11,430
other question, like what about 
Heron's Queen or Queens? 

2245
01:50:11,430 --> 01:50:13,950
Like what happened to them? 
Were they just just not around 

2246
01:50:13,950 --> 01:50:17,030
or dead already or were they 
killed 2 or I mean that one 

2247
01:50:17,030 --> 01:50:19,510
tower is called the Kings Fire 
Tower because everyone thinks 

2248
01:50:19,790 --> 01:50:22,430
that's where Heron was and maybe
that does imply his body was 

2249
01:50:22,430 --> 01:50:24,510
found and so there was some 
reason to know it was his or 

2250
01:50:24,510 --> 01:50:26,870
it's just the tallest tower and 
so that's the one he was in. 

2251
01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:30,150
It makes sense, but that's of 
course not what it was called by

2252
01:50:30,150 --> 01:50:33,060
Heron. 
No one knows what the original 5

2253
01:50:33,060 --> 01:50:35,020
names of those towers were. 
He may not have named them yet. 

2254
01:50:35,020 --> 01:50:37,020
He was still maybe in the 
process of coming up with a name

2255
01:50:37,020 --> 01:50:40,460
for them, you know, just hadn't 
quite done that yet. 

2256
01:50:41,540 --> 01:50:45,100
Yeah, but either way, that's 
what happened. 

2257
01:50:45,180 --> 01:50:47,900
And there's gonna be, like I 
said, plenty more stories from 

2258
01:50:47,900 --> 01:50:50,460
Heron Hall going forward. 
We'll have plenty of time or 

2259
01:50:50,460 --> 01:50:52,940
plenty of opportunity to come 
back to it and discuss it. 

2260
01:50:54,730 --> 01:50:57,050
Yeah, Burning Heron Hall Burning
swords. 

2261
01:50:57,050 --> 01:51:00,610
Just the metaphorical 
destruction of a Kingdom and the

2262
01:51:00,610 --> 01:51:02,050
literal destruction of these 
swords. 

2263
01:51:02,050 --> 01:51:09,570
Both are reforged into something
1A throne, 1A cornerstone or 

2264
01:51:09,570 --> 01:51:12,370
centerpiece perhaps, of the new 
7 kingdoms. 

2265
01:51:12,650 --> 01:51:15,010
And I call it a centerpiece 
because, well, the Riverlands is

2266
01:51:15,010 --> 01:51:19,290
in the center and it's been so 
different, it's it's been 

2267
01:51:19,290 --> 01:51:22,910
restructured. 
It's remade and probably in a 

2268
01:51:22,910 --> 01:51:24,750
way that creates a lot of 
positive outlook for them 

2269
01:51:24,750 --> 01:51:27,750
because they've always had so 
many enemies, because they have 

2270
01:51:27,750 --> 01:51:30,150
so many borders, but now they 
have a central, strong authority

2271
01:51:30,150 --> 01:51:35,590
figure on their border that 
won't allow the other kingdoms 

2272
01:51:35,590 --> 01:51:38,190
to invade them. 
If they invade the Riverlands 

2273
01:51:38,390 --> 01:51:41,190
going forward, they have to face
the Dragons. 

2274
01:51:41,190 --> 01:51:46,030
They have to face the very thing
that did all that to Heron Hall.

2275
01:51:46,350 --> 01:51:50,920
So that example isn't just. 
About the power of the Dragons, 

2276
01:51:51,320 --> 01:51:55,400
it's about the new Riverlands. 
It's about forging the new 

2277
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:57,080
Riverlands. 
Just as the melting of the 

2278
01:51:57,080 --> 01:51:59,440
Swords is a forging of the new 
Iron Throne, the melting of 

2279
01:51:59,440 --> 01:52:01,280
Heron Hall is a forging of the 
new Riverlands. 

2280
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:06,640
And that, my friends, will be 
our main topic next time. 

2281
01:52:06,840 --> 01:52:09,480
We have a few things to get 
through before we're done here, 

2282
01:52:09,480 --> 01:52:13,080
but that is our narrative 
endpoint. 

2283
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:16,560
As far as, however, how far 
we're going with Agon and his 

2284
01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:19,880
history, I'm going to add a 
little corollary to that. 

2285
01:52:19,880 --> 01:52:22,120
It's also the forging of a new 
Iron Islands. 

2286
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,000
You're right, that will also be 
the secondary topic. 

2287
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:27,360
We're going to be covering both 
those things next time probably.

2288
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:30,080
Maybe we'll only have time for 
the Riverlands, but certainly 

2289
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:35,120
that it also on top of that 
forges a new Night's Watch. 

2290
01:52:35,480 --> 01:52:38,560
But not just these, that's more 
of the whole conquest, that's 

2291
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:41,240
more the surrender of the North.
But also the the start of it is 

2292
01:52:41,240 --> 01:52:44,040
here because they got the King's
peace. 

2293
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:50,440
Savagely and dramatically 
reduced recruits to the Knights 

2294
01:52:50,440 --> 01:52:52,720
watch, because it's so often a 
losing side of a war. 

2295
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:54,680
Has a bunch of Benson there. 
Well, what happens when there's 

2296
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:56,320
no more wars? 
Well, that's obviously a good 

2297
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:58,640
thing. 
Except for this one side effect 

2298
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:00,840
here. 
Yeah, other things. 

2299
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:03,520
We'll talk about it seems like 
it's it seems like you got 

2300
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:05,840
there's a problem with your 
scenario in the 1st place. 

2301
01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:09,400
If you have this line of defense
that's depended upon war, right?

2302
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:11,640
You should. 
You're doing something wrong 

2303
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:15,020
with this whole scenario, yeah? 
So, yeah, so next time we'll 

2304
01:53:15,020 --> 01:53:17,780
talk about how the river lands 
and perhaps the Iron Islands 

2305
01:53:17,780 --> 01:53:21,780
were resettled, who was given 
control of what, any marriages, 

2306
01:53:21,780 --> 01:53:25,900
ongoing loyalties problems. 
And then as we make our way 

2307
01:53:25,900 --> 01:53:32,900
towards the next set of the war 
where we'll be talking about 

2308
01:53:32,900 --> 01:53:37,060
what Raines and Viseno will be 
up to, that's an important thing

2309
01:53:37,060 --> 01:53:39,460
that's that's going to be coming
in the coming weeks as well. 

2310
01:53:39,790 --> 01:53:42,150
So we have quite a bit more to 
talk about. 

2311
01:53:42,310 --> 01:53:45,870
As we did today. 
We'll be mixing in some examples

2312
01:53:46,190 --> 01:53:49,510
of from A Song of Ice and Fire 
where possible, because the 

2313
01:53:49,710 --> 01:53:55,150
lessons and maneuvers and plans 
of Aegon and his sister still 

2314
01:53:55,150 --> 01:53:58,870
echo forward. 
And one of the best ways we can 

2315
01:53:59,190 --> 01:54:02,750
engage in this material is to 
show how that plays out within 

2316
01:54:02,750 --> 01:54:04,470
the confines of the main 
storyline. 

2317
01:54:05,250 --> 01:54:08,370
Not to mention some things to do
with House of the Dragon and the

2318
01:54:08,370 --> 01:54:10,930
Dance of the Dragons, which of 
course will be our our end point

2319
01:54:10,930 --> 01:54:13,090
for this reread. 
But many things that we already 

2320
01:54:13,090 --> 01:54:17,250
know about that are going to 
have touchstones here at the 

2321
01:54:17,250 --> 01:54:19,010
beginning of the Targaryen 
reign. 

2322
01:54:20,530 --> 01:54:25,050
We'll finish off with this 
question from Steve Van Pruyen. 

2323
01:54:26,250 --> 01:54:29,730
When did Aegon and Ironborn 
slavery enthralled him in the 

2324
01:54:29,730 --> 01:54:31,650
Riverlands? 
That's a great question. 

2325
01:54:31,810 --> 01:54:33,810
We may continue with this 
question next time. 

2326
01:54:33,810 --> 01:54:37,490
I may have to think about it 
some more, but it seems to have 

2327
01:54:37,490 --> 01:54:42,610
been immediate. 
I mean, once the end of Heron 

2328
01:54:42,610 --> 01:54:47,130
came and his sons were wiped 
out, there was no like remaining

2329
01:54:48,210 --> 01:54:51,070
immediate relative to try to. 
Take U the Helm. 

2330
01:54:51,070 --> 01:54:53,750
There were still surviving 
members of his bloodline, but no

2331
01:54:53,750 --> 01:54:55,870
one major enough to make any big
plays here. 

2332
01:54:55,870 --> 01:54:59,070
In the short term, I'm. 
Going to say it's still so hard 

2333
01:54:59,070 --> 01:55:02,080
till like. 
Yeah, you can say the policy is 

2334
01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:05,040
now that there's no throttle, 
but how do you actually go 

2335
01:55:05,040 --> 01:55:08,000
through the homes and remove 
them and rehome them? 

2336
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:12,040
Like, were there initiatives to 
find homes for thralls that 

2337
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:14,400
didn't have like because I feel 
like probably a lot of people 

2338
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:17,080
just lived out the rest of their
lives and thralled them still. 

2339
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:20,520
Yeah, I agree. 
It may have been or there's no, 

2340
01:55:21,200 --> 01:55:26,780
we're not told of any sort of. 
Amnesty or speaks to what I was 

2341
01:55:26,860 --> 01:55:30,060
saying before about what about 
just ironborn children and or 

2342
01:55:30,060 --> 01:55:33,020
half ironborn half river Landers
and people that enforce 

2343
01:55:33,020 --> 01:55:37,580
marriages. 
Like what part of that, like how

2344
01:55:37,580 --> 01:55:40,380
did that all get undone How did 
this is 100 years of ironborn 

2345
01:55:40,380 --> 01:55:42,740
rule there plus the storm lands 
rule before So like how did they

2346
01:55:42,740 --> 01:55:45,100
get back to being themselves and
how did they make. 

2347
01:55:45,100 --> 01:55:46,860
Yeah, it's not talking about 
very much. 

2348
01:55:46,860 --> 01:55:49,340
So that's something we'll 
explore. 

2349
01:55:50,190 --> 01:55:52,550
A bit more. 
The more I think about this, the

2350
01:55:52,550 --> 01:55:54,150
more I think, yeah, well, we're 
going to want to come back to 

2351
01:55:54,150 --> 01:55:57,070
this question because it is 
something we're going to have to

2352
01:55:57,070 --> 01:55:59,110
use a lot of imagination on. 
Cuz yeah, it's not very well 

2353
01:55:59,110 --> 01:56:03,950
detailed, but I do think that he
didn't enthralled him in the 

2354
01:56:03,950 --> 01:56:05,710
Iron Islands. 
He definitely left that around, 

2355
01:56:05,710 --> 01:56:09,190
even though he did end the old 
way in terms of reeling. 

2356
01:56:09,710 --> 01:56:12,150
So we'll have more to say on 
that as well, but the River 

2357
01:56:12,150 --> 01:56:14,720
Lands is not. 
They don't have a long history 

2358
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:16,680
of that. 
The Seven don't approve of that.

2359
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:19,160
The religion of the of the realm
doesn't really approve of that. 

2360
01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:23,360
So he would want to align things
with the common beliefs, the 

2361
01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:25,480
common culture of the realm. 
He's trying to rule that that's 

2362
01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:28,080
something he did a number of 
times, the the worship of the 

2363
01:56:28,080 --> 01:56:29,720
seven being perhaps the most 
obvious of that. 

2364
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:33,920
But other things, like having a,
having a banner and a sigil and 

2365
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:36,840
house, words like those were not
things they had done until the 

2366
01:56:36,840 --> 01:56:39,820
conquest. 
So those are littler things, but

2367
01:56:39,820 --> 01:56:42,380
they weren't that little. 
Like remember that quote before 

2368
01:56:42,380 --> 01:56:45,380
when he unfurled his great 
dragon headed banner with three 

2369
01:56:45,380 --> 01:56:47,620
heads? 
All the Lords of Westeros knew 

2370
01:56:47,620 --> 01:56:48,860
he was one of them? 
Like it. 

2371
01:56:48,980 --> 01:56:51,620
It may not seem like that big a 
deal to us, but it apparently 

2372
01:56:51,620 --> 01:56:54,620
was a pretty big deal to them. 
And that might be and that's 

2373
01:56:54,620 --> 01:56:56,340
this too. 
I think this is easier to see 

2374
01:56:56,340 --> 01:56:59,300
why it would be a big deal 
because it's explicitly against 

2375
01:56:59,300 --> 01:57:03,190
their religion, whereas. 
The other stuff is like it's not

2376
01:57:03,190 --> 01:57:04,990
in their religion to have 
banners and house words. 

2377
01:57:04,990 --> 01:57:06,950
That's just a cultural 
tradition, which is important, 

2378
01:57:06,950 --> 01:57:11,510
but it's not like a deeply held 
belief about the universe and 

2379
01:57:11,510 --> 01:57:13,310
everything you know, life, the 
universe and everything. 

2380
01:57:14,350 --> 01:57:17,550
I imagine it's the burning of 
Heron Hall Celeste and thrilling

2381
01:57:17,550 --> 01:57:20,750
of those banners or whatever. 
It's almost like an Order 66 

2382
01:57:21,190 --> 01:57:23,470
where everyone at Ribbon Line is
like, all right, suddenly all 

2383
01:57:23,470 --> 01:57:27,990
the Iron Born are like. 
Yeah, you might be right about 

2384
01:57:27,990 --> 01:57:29,910
that. 
Like an all iron born who 

2385
01:57:29,910 --> 01:57:32,400
aren't. 
Cool. 

2386
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:35,480
What if, for lack of a better 
word, who aren't in are going to

2387
01:57:35,480 --> 01:57:37,840
get murdered or or kicked out 
some. 

2388
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:40,280
Some of them might just be 
exiled like some of them. 

2389
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:43,120
If they especially if they have 
family bloodlines, that would 

2390
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:45,320
that might be a little too close
to kinslaying or something for 

2391
01:57:45,320 --> 01:57:48,800
them to just you know. 
It would be really tricky 

2392
01:57:48,800 --> 01:57:50,120
though. 
So yeah, it is a little bit 

2393
01:57:50,120 --> 01:57:52,320
slightly disappointing there's 
nothing written about this. 

2394
01:57:52,320 --> 01:57:55,240
But we can make some assumptions
and and go into that rabbit hole

2395
01:57:55,240 --> 01:57:56,600
anyway. 
It's still, there's still some 

2396
01:57:56,680 --> 01:57:59,280
enough clues for us to figure 
some things out, and so that is 

2397
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:00,480
something we'll be thinking 
about. 

2398
01:58:00,980 --> 01:58:03,740
Between now and next week, you 
all are welcome to think about 

2399
01:58:03,740 --> 01:58:05,980
it too, as well as any other 
related topics. 

2400
01:58:05,980 --> 01:58:07,340
Send us your questions, send 
them to 

2401
01:58:07,340 --> 01:58:11,460
westeroshistory@gmail.com or put
them in the Discord or our 

2402
01:58:11,460 --> 01:58:13,460
Facebook group and we will 
consider them. 

2403
01:58:13,820 --> 01:58:15,900
For example, Guinevere 
Greenstone's here has said, is 

2404
01:58:15,900 --> 01:58:17,780
there a chapter or page 
references for next week? 

2405
01:58:18,060 --> 01:58:20,380
Well, we're not really doing 
things chapter by chapter so 

2406
01:58:20,380 --> 01:58:23,340
much or page by page so much. 
We're we're, I wouldn't say 

2407
01:58:23,340 --> 01:58:25,620
we're jumping around, but we're 
really focusing in on each 

2408
01:58:25,620 --> 01:58:29,280
section, so we're still. 
At Aegon's Conquest, we're not 

2409
01:58:29,280 --> 01:58:31,400
past that. 
We're certainly aren't even 

2410
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:33,040
close to done with that yet. 
We haven't. 

2411
01:58:33,320 --> 01:58:37,640
We've only done a chunk of it. 
So I'd say read up on what 

2412
01:58:37,640 --> 01:58:40,560
happens after the fall of Heron 
Hall if you want to be curious 

2413
01:58:40,560 --> 01:58:42,680
about that, because it's because
the fire blood jumps around a 

2414
01:58:42,680 --> 01:58:45,200
lot too, and one of the things 
we're trying to do is less 

2415
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:47,160
jumping around. 
We're trying to stay focused on 

2416
01:58:47,160 --> 01:58:49,720
what Aegon was doing rather than
jump back and forth between 

2417
01:58:49,720 --> 01:58:52,360
Aegon, Besenia and Rainy's. 
We're going to tell the story a 

2418
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:55,760
little differently because it'll
be it's a different way to take 

2419
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:56,800
it in. 
We don't want to just. 

2420
01:58:57,030 --> 01:59:19,070
Reinvent the wheel. 
We're going to study the fire 

2421
01:59:19,070 --> 01:59:20,150
and then we're going to study 
the blood. 

2422
01:58:57,790 --> 01:59:00,470
I mean, it's not really, I 
wouldn't call that great 

2423
01:59:00,470 --> 01:59:02,550
analysis if you just do 
everything the way he's doing 

2424
01:59:02,550 --> 01:59:04,070
it. 
So by presenting it in a 

2425
01:59:04,070 --> 01:59:11,310
different order in a way that's 
a little more connected, we hope

2426
01:59:11,310 --> 01:59:16,590
to analyze fire and blood more 
thoroughly, but in a way that's 

2427
01:59:16,630 --> 01:59:22,830
maybe a little more directly. 
Yes, fire first, blood later. 

2428
01:59:23,230 --> 01:59:25,830
You know, don't mix them up. 
Come much later. 

2429
01:59:28,220 --> 01:59:30,540
And ice is still a ways away. 
Agon's worried about the ice, 

2430
01:59:30,540 --> 01:59:33,060
but even he knows it's in the in
the distance. 

2431
01:59:33,620 --> 01:59:38,460
So the answer to our trivia 
question, let's get to that. 

2432
01:59:38,500 --> 01:59:46,420
And which famous Viking king is 
Harwin Hardhand, The grandfather

2433
01:59:46,420 --> 01:59:48,740
of Heron whore? 
Based off of the answer is 

2434
01:59:48,740 --> 01:59:51,380
Harold Hardratta. 
Harold Hardratta, the famous 

2435
01:59:51,380 --> 01:59:54,100
Viking king who almost was King 
of England. 

2436
01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:58,440
And was king of Sweden and 
Denmark and Norway, if I 

2437
01:59:58,440 --> 01:59:59,920
remember correctly. 
Maybe just two of those. 

2438
01:59:59,920 --> 02:00:04,440
But he was had an amazing life 
that's been a feature of many 

2439
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:06,800
documentaries. 
He was in the Verangian guard 

2440
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:09,560
for the Byzantine emperor. 
He may have had an affair with a

2441
02:00:09,560 --> 02:00:12,600
Byzantine Empress. 
He was a Raider and reaver. 

2442
02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:15,760
He was a king and a Prince and 
an exile. 

2443
02:00:15,760 --> 02:00:17,480
He was. 
He lost his throne. 

2444
02:00:17,480 --> 02:00:21,110
He got it back just. 
And the reason this is such a If

2445
02:00:21,710 --> 02:00:24,230
you're familiar with the life of
Harwin Hardhand, a lot of these 

2446
02:00:24,230 --> 02:00:27,270
same elements are present. 
But the best clue, besides their

2447
02:00:27,270 --> 02:00:30,590
initials both being HH, is hard 
Rata translates as something 

2448
02:00:30,590 --> 02:00:33,830
like hard ruler or Hard Man. 
Hard Hand. 

2449
02:00:33,830 --> 02:00:35,350
Harwin. 
Hard Hand, right? 

2450
02:00:35,350 --> 02:00:38,920
Like it's Yeah. 
Harold Harwin, Hardrata, 

2451
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:39,880
Hardhand. 
Yeah. 

2452
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:43,800
Say people threw out a few 
Viking kings as answers, but 

2453
02:00:43,800 --> 02:00:45,280
lots of people go out this one, 
right? 

2454
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:47,760
Cool, cool people had some good 
arguments for. 

2455
02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:49,360
I wish I could. 
I don't know that I can scroll 

2456
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:52,040
all the way up on it, but I 
might have to go read some of 

2457
02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:53,480
these. 
Yeah, I forget what someone 

2458
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:55,560
said. 
One of them had done a lot of 

2459
02:00:55,560 --> 02:00:57,480
building at the end of his 
reign. 

2460
02:00:57,480 --> 02:01:01,000
And so they, I think Harold may 
have too, but maybe not, but 

2461
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:02,560
maybe not as much as this person
are thinking of. 

2462
02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:04,400
Yeah, a lot of Viking kings. 
Like I said, a lot of them, when

2463
02:01:04,400 --> 02:01:06,920
they settle down, they're not 
really Viking kings anymore. 

2464
02:01:06,920 --> 02:01:08,840
They're just kings. 
So that used to be Vikings. 

2465
02:01:10,240 --> 02:01:12,920
That was a lot of what was 
behind, quote UN quote, the 

2466
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:17,520
Vikings was there's just not a 
lot of fertile land in that cold

2467
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:19,400
NT. 
They were just, they they didn't

2468
02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:22,400
want to be at war. 
They wanted farms for their 

2469
02:01:22,400 --> 02:01:24,920
families. 
And so when they went South and 

2470
02:01:24,920 --> 02:01:27,360
found England, like, hey, here's
some farms for our families, too

2471
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:28,920
bad there's people already 
living there. 

2472
02:01:29,680 --> 02:01:31,920
But once they killed and kicked 
those people out, they brought 

2473
02:01:31,920 --> 02:01:33,560
their families down, set up a 
farm. 

2474
02:01:33,560 --> 02:01:34,920
That's it. 
That's what they're really 

2475
02:01:34,920 --> 02:01:36,480
looking for was sustainable 
lives. 

2476
02:01:36,680 --> 02:01:38,800
Yeah. 
And that's why this is becoming 

2477
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:43,040
more and more part of the public
conversation that because of all

2478
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:45,280
these DNA tests that are 
available nowadays, like, yeah, 

2479
02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:48,640
if you have like Irish or 
English ancestry, you probably 

2480
02:01:48,640 --> 02:01:52,000
have Scandinavian too, which 
speaks to the problem we were 

2481
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:53,760
just getting at with the new 
Riverlands. 

2482
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:56,320
Like if you're just going to 
like you want people of 

2483
02:01:56,320 --> 02:01:58,040
Riverlands blood, well you can't
do that. 

2484
02:01:58,040 --> 02:02:00,440
Like there's people married the 
Iron Born people have married 

2485
02:02:00,440 --> 02:02:02,560
other kingdoms. 
Like what? 

2486
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:05,280
Is Riverlands blood even mean? 
When you really get into that, 

2487
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:08,460
like what is, how does that, 
what's the difference? 

2488
02:02:08,820 --> 02:02:11,900
Like they're all hand dolls, 
real Riverland Men or. 

2489
02:02:12,140 --> 02:02:17,420
Real riverlanders are like my 
blood runs, muddy, runs thick 

2490
02:02:17,420 --> 02:02:19,820
and muddy, and you don't know 
where we're all from. 

2491
02:02:19,820 --> 02:02:22,220
That's the real Riverland. 
Real Riverlanders wield 

2492
02:02:22,220 --> 02:02:29,710
Tridents. 
Yep, Okay friends and supporters

2493
02:02:29,710 --> 02:02:33,470
and fellow obsessed W Orians. 
That's our episode for today. 

2494
02:02:33,470 --> 02:02:37,630
We'll pick it up at 3:00 PM next
week, right where we left off 

2495
02:02:37,630 --> 02:02:41,230
with the beginning of the 
forming of the new, new and 

2496
02:02:41,230 --> 02:02:45,310
glorious Riverlands. 
New fandangled Riverlands if you

2497
02:02:45,310 --> 02:02:48,230
want to stay immersed. 
Whole bunch of Targaryen related

2498
02:02:48,230 --> 02:02:51,780
episodes, but you could also dip
into our History of the 

2499
02:02:51,780 --> 02:02:55,260
Riverlands. 
Very old episode, but pretty, 

2500
02:02:55,340 --> 02:02:58,020
pretty solid, I think also some 
of our What's that? 

2501
02:02:58,060 --> 02:03:00,980
You have to read our chapter on 
Heron Hall, our chapter on Heron

2502
02:03:00,980 --> 02:03:02,740
Hall. 
We have a chapter written in the

2503
02:03:02,740 --> 02:03:05,420
book Flight of Sorrows where we 
wrote about some of that curse 

2504
02:03:05,420 --> 02:03:08,300
or no curse thing, something 
that I want to modernize and do 

2505
02:03:08,300 --> 02:03:10,380
again because that was like 8 or
10 years ago. 

2506
02:03:10,380 --> 02:03:13,260
But it's still good info and I 
still. 

2507
02:03:13,260 --> 02:03:15,020
And the other essays in that 
book are really good. 

2508
02:03:15,020 --> 02:03:17,900
If you never heard of that book,
you can still find it on Amazon.

2509
02:03:17,900 --> 02:03:22,920
Yeah, been a while since we 
mentioned it, but we hey, we're 

2510
02:03:22,920 --> 02:03:26,360
technically authors. 
A couple of times over. 

2511
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:27,840
That's right. 
We've done a couple chapters and

2512
02:03:27,840 --> 02:03:29,880
a couple books. 
We haven't done a book all 

2513
02:03:29,880 --> 02:03:31,560
ourselves. 
Maybe one day we'll do that. 

2514
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:33,760
So yeah, check out our episode 
on Belarion. 

2515
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:37,400
That's a particularly strong 
overlap given what we talked 

2516
02:03:37,400 --> 02:03:40,600
about today as well as the 
episodes on before. 

2517
02:03:40,600 --> 02:03:43,760
The Dragons which kind of get 
speak to just their ignorance of

2518
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:46,580
what Dragons could do and how 
things had always been the way 

2519
02:03:46,580 --> 02:03:50,060
they were for so long and why it
was so hard to change those 

2520
02:03:50,060 --> 02:03:51,740
ways. 
Of course, we have an episode on

2521
02:03:51,740 --> 02:03:55,060
Dragonstone. 
We have an episode on Mentares, 

2522
02:03:55,060 --> 02:03:57,100
which is for patrons and 
supporters only. 

2523
02:03:57,460 --> 02:04:00,420
We have episodes on Summer Hall.
Talk about Speaking of Wildfire 

2524
02:04:00,420 --> 02:04:02,420
and another way that Stone can 
burn. 

2525
02:04:02,740 --> 02:04:06,580
Well, that did happen a little 
bit more recently than the Fall 

2526
02:04:06,580 --> 02:04:10,380
of Heron Hall, but pretty darn 
important for Targaryen history.

2527
02:04:10,860 --> 02:04:14,700
And we've got two episodes on 
that one featuring Aries. 

2528
02:04:15,050 --> 02:04:16,650
We want a bit more focused on 
Ragar. 

2529
02:04:16,810 --> 02:04:21,210
Yes, as I said, you can support 
us on Patreon. 

2530
02:04:21,210 --> 02:04:22,970
You can also support us on 
Spotify. 

2531
02:04:23,410 --> 02:04:25,370
You can. 
Now those two things are in the 

2532
02:04:25,370 --> 02:04:27,250
process of being merged into 
one. 

2533
02:04:27,770 --> 02:04:31,370
You can. 
Thus the world of supporting and

2534
02:04:31,370 --> 02:04:33,170
patronage is getting a little 
simpler. 

2535
02:04:33,490 --> 02:04:36,330
It's a good thing we makes it 
easier for us to explain it to 

2536
02:04:36,330 --> 02:04:37,930
y'all. 
But if you have any questions on

2537
02:04:37,930 --> 02:04:39,810
how to support, feel free to 
reach out to us. 

2538
02:04:40,050 --> 02:04:43,000
We're happy to explain it all 
because I do. 

2539
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:46,760
I know it's confusing because it
keeps changing, but what can we 

2540
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:49,920
do about that? 
We're just rolling along with 

2541
02:04:49,920 --> 02:04:51,320
all the changes in this 
industry. 

2542
02:04:51,320 --> 02:04:53,880
Podcasting is still a pretty new
industry in the in the scheme of

2543
02:04:53,880 --> 02:04:57,320
things, and all the support 
industries around it are also 

2544
02:04:57,320 --> 02:04:59,800
relatively new for obvious 
reasons. 

2545
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:02,680
So thanks again to Y'all for 
your support and whatever form 

2546
02:05:02,680 --> 02:05:04,920
it comes, whether it's word of 
mouth, whether it's financial, 

2547
02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:09,880
whether it's just tuning in 
every week and and listening and

2548
02:05:09,920 --> 02:05:11,960
adding to our view count, that 
helps too. 

2549
02:05:12,580 --> 02:05:14,460
Thanks to our good friend Nina 
for her notes. 

2550
02:05:14,460 --> 02:05:15,980
There's a lot of good stuff in 
there today. 

2551
02:05:15,980 --> 02:05:19,340
I I particularly liked her 
comparison of Blood Raven 

2552
02:05:19,580 --> 02:05:23,260
completely wiping out white 
walls versus the lesson of Heron

2553
02:05:23,260 --> 02:05:27,340
Hall by leaving it standing. 
That's a it's a great comparison

2554
02:05:27,340 --> 02:05:30,300
we could make there by two 
people who aren't afraid to be 

2555
02:05:30,300 --> 02:05:35,780
ruthless but also have thought 
behind that ruthlessness. 

2556
02:05:35,780 --> 02:05:38,770
It's not just. 
I mean do what I say. 

2557
02:05:38,770 --> 02:05:41,890
No, they're they're trying to 
send a specific message with 

2558
02:05:41,890 --> 02:05:45,530
that brutality. 
Thanks as well to Joey, Jesse 

2559
02:05:45,530 --> 02:05:49,410
and Bran for the help with our 
music and intro. 

2560
02:05:49,610 --> 02:05:52,490
Same goes for Michael Clarfeld 
for our original intro. 

2561
02:05:52,770 --> 02:05:56,930
We have so many helpful and 
excellent artistic people that 

2562
02:05:56,930 --> 02:06:00,450
have made our show better. 
That includes our friend, the 

2563
02:06:00,450 --> 02:06:03,410
engineer who works on the sound 
quality behind the scenes. 

2564
02:06:04,130 --> 02:06:08,450
And well, folks, Discord again, 
I want to remind you September 

2565
02:06:08,450 --> 02:06:10,290
26th at 9:00 PM. 
That's trivia. 

2566
02:06:10,290 --> 02:06:12,450
I'm going to throw that out 
there as often as possible 

2567
02:06:12,450 --> 02:06:15,170
because I know trivia is. 
We'll bring a few extra folks 

2568
02:06:15,170 --> 02:06:18,450
in. 
And until next time you know 

2569
02:06:18,450 --> 02:06:21,050
what to do. 
Valerie read us.