For those of us who have already read the novella many times or
just once, you remember the big moments well because they're
very memorable. So when we're watching it on TV,
it's not the big moments, but how they do the big moments.
And that's a big thing. And we've got a lot of emotion
wrapped up in this. Some of us read this novel, you
know, 20 years plus ago and and he doesn't you don't have to
have read it a long time ago to have that feeling of I sure hope
this is good. So when you do see it come out,
well, it's a mixture of of great feelings, one of which is
relief. But God, they got it right.
Many of us love Duncan Egg. You know, long before the notion
of ATV show, even the first TV show was a thing.
And we loved Baylor breaks beer back then too.
He's one of the characters that's central to the story, for
obvious reasons. We'd be pretty upset or at least
annoyed or something if they got him wrong.
And one of the joys of knowing what's coming as well is you get
to vicariously live through your friends and family who haven't
seen it. And that's been a lot of fun.
We knew it would be, but it's gone farther than we thought.
There's been more of it. The the internet's exploded.
If you'd told me that Baylor breaks beer would be Internet
famous and getting memed all the time and be so popular, I mean,
we knew he deserved it, but did millions and millions of other
people? Well, they do now.
It's really amazing to see this happen.
He's he's pretty obscure when you get into it, you know?
I mean, not anymore. He's not obscure anymore, y'all?
He was obscure. So, yeah, a few weeks ago he was
obscure. Now he's a hero.
Like, yeah, just like I kind of like how Duncan's gonna be.
So he's a real one. He's an exception to Raymond's
rant. A person of incredible privilege
and power who put himself at risk for principles.
People loved the egg reveal, but they loved him before that.
Like, it didn't change necessarily how much you liked
him. Maybe made it more interesting.
Maybe it changed a little bit, but it was a gradual thing.
With Baylor, it was a whoa, holy crap, I like this guy.
You know, maybe you liked how he carried himself, but this is
such a change. It's a sudden flood of love for
this character. The the final line of the
episode. And it became one of the highest
rated TV episodes of any of the three shows.
Oh, and of course there were characters besides Baylor in
this one y'all. So we'll be discussing all that
more on this episode of History of Westeros Podcast.
Hello and welcome everybody. We are back at our usual time to
talk the episode, even though the episode itself came out a
bit early. Thanks to the Superb owl.
That's right, Dragons, hedge nights and all in between.
Bow to the Superb Owl. You can catch our review
episodes at this time and our preview episodes on most
Fridays. We didn't have one last Friday
because of that schedule change, but we are back on this Friday
at 5:30 Eastern to discuss what we expect in In the Name of the
Mother, which is the name of that one.
This one, of course, is called 7.
And of course, right after the preview episode, we'll be doing
my game stream, continuing the adventures of Duncan egg on in
game format. Sean, I guess I was about to say
we've got a, a fourth person with us, but your, your Kitty
has vanished since we started. How you doing and what you got
to drink? There, I'm doing well, and by
the way, Tough is still just right next to me.
She'll probably. I laugh again.
I have sparkling ice black cherry mixed with the Naked
green drink mixed with Magic Mind.
Delicious as always. It's like, can I do a?
It's like Duncan. Yeah, you can real quick.
It's like Duncan Egg, you know, Who knows what tomorrow will
bring? Well, who knows what weird drink
you'll make next? Yeah.
I just want to give a quick shout out.
I ran into a listener in the wild.
Harley, if you're out there listening.
Nice, thanks. For tuning in, I was in a Magic
tournament and wearing my History of Westeros shirt, and
she's like, oh, I like that shirt that oh, wait, you know,
like. Very cool.
Nice. Yeah.
Speaking of shirts, I have the Knight of Seven Kingdoms shirt
on here, which y'all can purchase through our threadless
shop. The link's in the description.
It's made-up like a tour shirt, a Shaya designed it and it's got
all the different stops for Duncan Egg that we know of,
which is plenty and it looks great.
Now you can get it 2 sided or one sided for the for viewing
purposes. I have the one sided version but
you can get A2 sided version as well.
Can I make another quick point? Your intro about the idea that,
you know, kind of knowing it already what's going to happen,
but still exciting to see it and the people who don't know.
And it, it seems generally my finger on the pulse of the
viewership is that people are surprised that maybe some people
had an idea that something was up with the egg but weren't
really we're we're still. It's a shocking moment, I think
that I knew when I read the book.
I think I had been spoiled, you know, I was so kind of immersed
in a fandom that I knew. So it wasn't a total surprise to
me, but still, that first time reading it, I did not pick up on
all the clues along the way. Just like, oh, there's the
reveal. But having read it multiple
times after the fact and watching the show, I think it's
an example of a couple things. One, the rewatch value is really
good for someone who didn't know, even someone who didn't
know, I guess. But because you see all the
clues that were there along the way, it it's just an indication
of how well written it was. It's something that I love is
when something is a reveal or surprise happens.
When we look back on it, it's almost obvious.
I think that's a sign of good writing that they were able to
give the clues but bury them in a way that you didn't key in on
it. But it absolutely set up and not
something they randomly decided on.
Furthermore, it's a a good example of something.
If something's really great, it can't be quote UN quote spoiled.
You know what I mean? Like even though we all know
this, we're still excited to see it.
Kind of like a great comedy. You can rewatch whatever
Ghostbusters of Super Troopers comedy largely depends on
surprise, but even when you know the punchline, it's still funny
to see it again, you know? So I think it's a sign of it
being truly well written and truly well portrayed in the
show. Well said.
Yeah. And I think that even Baylor
joining Dunk is also something you can see the clues for if you
look ahead. He's like, well, he's this
chivalrous guy, this short one man like, yeah, and you're
right, but you don't see it coming.
And afterwards you're like, oh, yeah, that makes so much sense.
So you're right. That's good writing.
He wasn't on the dais either, you know, when dunked, appealing
to the crowd. Where is.
He Oh yeah, right, right. Yeah, things like that.
So we've got a lot to talk about.
We mean a Shay of that. It has appeared on X-ray vision
podcast. That's Jason Concepcione and his
partner Rosie. Their their show and they
discuss a lot of pop culture and fandom things and we love
talking Game of Thrones with them.
It's exciting to talk Hedge Knight and Knight of the Seven
Kings with them. So check that episode out.
That was full spoilers and it a lot of it focused on the
prophecy that that Duncan egg we're told, but we had on other
topics as well. And we would love to hear you
all's takes or stories or anecdotes from how your family
reacted to egg to Baylor and well next week as well, how
that's going to go. We'll be curious for that as
well. And more and more of a how sad
were they kind of way. But we've got.
Let's get to all that in due time here.
And also, I wanted to say just one, I don't want to get in the
whole thing, but I did realize something in it occurred in it.
I was talking about it last week.
The rejoice, everyone rejoicing. Egg's death.
Whenever a king dies, there's a new king and you rejoice, Long
live the king. I think that's the answer, that
the egg isn't going to take it that way.
I still like the idea that it'll be a self fulfilling prophecy
type thing, but I think that's the explanation for why all
rejoicing his death, you know? I think that sounds like a lot
of cope for the fact that Egg is going to be a lot darker in his
adulthood, but. I won't deny that's a
possibility also, yeah. Let's have our poll.
Would King Darren, had he been there, allowed Prince Baylor to
participate in the trial of seven?
There's no right or wrong answer here.
Of course, we don't know. So I'm just curious what the
consensus is here. You can vote yes or no, and
we'll take a look at the end of the episode.
So the episode's called 7. It's pretty straightforward in a
lot of ways. What that means, it certainly
has a lot to do with achieving that number on both sides.
They both have to actually get to 7.
Plus the concept of it is introduced and we learn a little
bit about its history, that it came from the Andols.
It's a religious ceremony. It's kind of funny that it's a
Valyrian descended person who's invoking an ancient and all
ritual against someone who is actually living up to and all
values. It's Yep, that's that's Aryan
for you. So let's talk about our favorite
performances. Sean.
We'll start with you and then we'll also do our favorite
scenes or moments after that. So, Sean, go ahead.
I think if I'm pressed I I want to pick egg.
I think that the his sadness and his I don't know what word to
use recoiling at dunks frustration was really well
done. You really felt for him and it's
kind of connected to my favorite scene too.
So I won't go on too much about it, but I will talk a little
more about my favorite scene. But also I want to say this.
Stefan did a good job too. Like even though he's kind of
like a oh, you're frustrated and angry with him, but he's got to
do a good job to evoke that frustration in you.
I I think he gets a little credit, as small as his little
part was, you know? I agree.
I thought Stefan was quite good. You're right.
He was. He just kind of like, yeah, I
totally agree. But yeah, what about you?
I will say I knew what would happen with Stefan and I still
kind of like a streaking. We wanted to to believe him.
So I do think he did a great job.
My favorite performance has just got to be Dunk.
This was I think, Peter Claffey's best acting yet.
You saw him in his in his rage and his sadness.
You see him, you know, gaining confidence and able to make like
a grand speech. You know, at the end, I think
Peter Claffey did a great job and I'm going to give it to him.
Unsurprisingly, I picked Baylor. I guess this is the second time
I've picked Baylor, so good job Baylor.
Yeah, obviously I think what I said about him in the intro
suffices to explain what I like so much.
But yeah, I just think this, I think the portrayal has been
brilliant. They've nailed the difficulty
and the conflict within the character, and people care about
him so much. That's that's that right there.
Says it all. People really care about this
character. And.
Well, let's go on. Favorite scene or moment?
Sean, which was yours? Real quick, I'm going to follow
up with your, your comment about Baylor.
I, I one thing I don't think the show is doing as well as the
book. And, you know, maybe I, maybe
it's just my reading and my time to sit in it, but I feel like it
was a bigger moment. The idea that Baylor is such a
great champion isn't quite brought out like his.
His prowess as a warrior isn't quite as focused on in the show,
I think. And it when he joins the list,
it's a particular crew because he's probably better than all of
them. You know what I mean?
Like, it's a big get for him to suddenly be on Dunk's side.
But we'll probably talk more about that later.
My favorite scene was just the very opening scene that the
whole opening scene I thought was great.
I like I said I I loved eggs performance there, but
specifically just that very opening moment of dunk just
sitting there alone. I I like pensive moments like
this where we are both given a chance to consider what the
character is thinking and going through and maybe how we would
feel, what we would do or if we were in that moment.
I like pensive somber moments like this.
It gives you a chance to to sit and consider with it.
Also, I want to point out, I think what a super interesting
the the opening shot, it looked kind of like the sky.
It kind of looked like the sky and star more.
Than kind of shot. They definitely shot the stars
and then merged it. In my opinion, like to to do
that. I, I think it was very
deliberate because Dunk has spent most of his, his nights
outside under the stars when he looks up at the ceiling, like
it's kind of like when you've looked at something a lot,
you're, you're going to see that pattern in it.
And so I think that that was that.
And I think it was very beautiful and why it's my
favorite scene as well. Oh, there you go.
Yeah. And it's kind of like adding to
what you're saying to say. And combined with what I was
saying is it gives you a chance to think about what dunks
thinking about. You feel a little more in his
shoes, like is, is he still sort of free even though he's in
prison because he has his honor and his integrity and he knows
he was right? Or is it extra sad and ironic
that he's in prison even though he should be free because he has
his honor and integrity and did what was right?
And I don't know. I loved it.
I thought it was really great. So Shay, you said you really
loved that scene too. So did I, but did you have maybe
other things to say about that one?
Or perhaps a a second favorite? Yeah, I do.
Yes. This was my favorite shot in an
episode with beautiful shots. It was my favorite was just that
opening sequence. But I also liked the acting on
display from Dunk and Egg together, the tears and eggs
eyes, the rage and dunks, the way he may be.
You know, it's still softens a little bit in that already, the
dialogue, etcetera. I loved all of that.
And the other favorite sequence I had, favorite scene was
Raymond's knighting. I liked a few things about it.
I liked the implications from it.
I liked the editing in it and the film work in the way that it
transitioned to this very cinematic and dreamy sequence.
You know, when when Lionel is actually knighting Raymond here,
it's just stunning and kind of a little more slow MO.
And then it's quick, quickly interspersed with the amazing
shot of dunk on his knees as if he were going to be knighted.
But he is, of course in his in his clothing now, which gives it
the surreal quality so that you know that it's not actually a
true flashback, right. And then you see one of the best
faces ever, which is Arlen's, you know.
I can't help you here kid, I never get anything like this.
Yeah, exactly. He's just shrugging as if I I
got nothing for you, man. And this happens perfectly
timed, kind of as Dunk is is out of earshot of the rest of of of
the dubbing of the vows, you know.
And so I thought that was well placed as well.
I don't know, I thought it was really brilliant.
We'll talk about it more, but comedic moving really made
people think a lot and stirred up a lot of debate.
I know we want to move on, but I got to say I I'm with you,
Shaya. This is a great example of how
editing can be such a great tool and storytelling.
It's so underestimated, but someone had to decide to
intersperse this in the timing of it and how the music went.
It was just outstanding filmmaking and my favorite part
was the the the look of loving acceptance that Arlen had as he
was just about to knight beasts in this flashback of when that
happened. Yeah, I love that knighting with
Raymond's scene. Just the fact that they had this
character that was just irreverent about everything,
that took something seriously, really gave it extra gravitas.
Yeah. That's a great point, though,
Aziz, about Lionel, you know that he really did take it
seriously. The first thing we he took
seriously the entire show. Yeah, I.
Love that. Yeah.
I mean, even talking about fighting the Kingsguard, he
wasn't. He was like, dirty up there.
White wrote dresses or what? Yeah.
This is the only thing he was serious about.
I love that. Was really cool.
So gave it, gave it a little extra push there.
So of course, I'm picking the end scene with Baylor.
Not surprising given what else I've said.
I thought that was really well done.
Mostly what I liked about it wasn't just the framing, the way
they set it up, which was all very good.
A Dunk's desperation. They didn't try to overdo his
entrance as if it was staged, because it wasn't.
It's not supposed to be like he's waiting for his moment.
No, it's like he already knew Dunk was short a guy and he's
getting ready. Meanwhile, more drama plays out
with who's on whose side and all that, unbeknownst to him.
And so when he comes in, it's just focused on him and his
expression. And his expression is really
perfect. In the book, Shay and I were
talking about this last night, he's described as having a sad
smile. I'm not so sure that's a sad
smile. He, to me, this is a little more
guilty, which I think is perfect.
He's like, I got to be here. I got to do this.
I it's my, you know, this is the kind of realm I, I won't, I
can't have a realm where Aryan, his behavior is unpunished and
the guy who did the right thing is punished.
I can't have that. But also, I got to fight against
my family, you know, like. I think he looks resigned.
It's kind of like. That's a good point, yeah.
Like, he's done what he knows he has to do, but he still knows
there's a drawback to it. It's kind of like, do you want
to lose $100 or $1000? Like, oh, well, I guess I'll
lose 100. It's hard to be happy about
that, but it is the right decision, you know?
Say resigned. That's why when Dunk looks at it
and says almost sadly, he might not be attributing it to the
right emotion that he's seeing, but I think you could see almost
sadly as being resigned as well. Sure.
Yeah, Yeah, I think we're pretty close on that for sure.
And Sean, based on what's something you just said, I have
a thing in the document that I'll move up here we can talk
about now. This is a great example of like
what you said about the editing is a perfect example of how I
think the showrunners like quote UN quote should approach things.
The visual medium is so different than the book.
You have so much else to work with like that, like flashbacks,
like great acting, like just any kind of visuals, like emotion
that's harder to portray on the page or great scenes like this.
There's a certain things that are different.
There's just certain things you can't do music.
I mean, one of the best examples there is, right?
So working within that, that's a lot.
You've got a lot to work with in terms of that.
So why change the story? You know, keep the story as is.
You got so much else you can mess with.
And that's the, those are the things we're liking the most.
I think, you know, they're capturing the great parts of the
story because they're leaving it intact and making it something
that we haven't seen even though we have seen it, you know.
So let's talk about that first scene, apology and forgiveness.
We'll kind of work our way chronologically to the scenes
here today because it it just works pretty well that way.
It's not it flows nicely and we can do it that way.
So it looks like we talked about the stars into the jail cell
thing, the no open sky and how that's kind of a refers to the
earlier theme of sleeping without a pavilion and getting
the good luck. Well, he's not getting good luck
yet and under inside here, but things turn.
The medium is really nice here and and we get reminded of even
in dunk in his worst moment here, he's still like nice to
the rat, you know, like he's just like petting the rat and
that's just how he's nice to the horses.
Nice, nice. And when they come in again,
they just do it like the book says.
The quote is he sat by the tray, pulled apart the bread with his
hands and stuffed some into his mouth.
He was shoving it into his mouth in the in the show.
It's exactly what they did. Y'all mentioned it in the
beginning here, Eggs Dexter's acting here was fantastic.
This is a this is a mode, an emotion we haven't seen him in
yet. It's just it's another piece of
his range that we're exposed to and it's like, well, this kid
just keeps nailing it. They didn't.
One thing they took out which is a little interesting is they
took out the origin of Egg's name from the scene, which is a
thing that happens in the book version, which means they took
out the mention of Amon so. Which you'd think they kind of
want to do that, you know, you'd want to make that connective
tissue. But maybe they're holding back
on that for a surprise for some people, because it is going to
be a surprise for a lot of people.
That's something that most people still don't know other
than people who have who have read it, like, so everybody here
knows that, obviously, but a lot of y'all's families don't know
that. So one thing I love to hear
about the scene is that Dunk, despite what trouble he's in,
despite who Egg actually is, he is not cowed by Egg's rank.
He's not intimidated by the fact that Egg is a Prince.
He's still just focused on the right and wrong of it and his
virtues and values, which is just that's Dunk.
It's great. And AG is right there with him.
He can't help. He's like, yeah, I, you know,
pretty much every excuse AG gives, Dunk has an answer for.
And then, as usual, Dunk backs down after expressing his anger.
He's like, let's make it a teaching moment, you know?
But even that's that's different here, though, right, y'all?
Because he's no longer teaching what he thinks is an orphan boy.
Now he's teaching a a a royal. But this royal does need
parenting. I did think that was a neat
moment when Egg said he didn't think he was doing anything
wrong and Duncan's like you did, that's why you lied.
But it's it's interesting to think about the idea of doing
there's a difference between what's morally wrong and what's
socially or legally wrong. Does that make sense?
Like that what Dunk did was just something that might get him in
trouble because the rules of his family are royalty or whatever.
But he wasn't actually wrong. I don't I don't see it wasn't
immoral. He didn't deny anyone or didn't
steal anything or hurt anybody other than, you know, with a
bunch of other factors included Dunks ego or something.
But. But he knew he was doing
something that you know. He's inappropriate, you know
he's doing something inappropriate, but not immorally
wrong. Dunk knew he was doing something
wrong when he punched the Prince, right?
I, you know, I don't know. I think, I mean it's the same as
Dunk knows he's doing something wrong by lying, that he's a
knight, and that's the comparison that I I see.
Here, Yeah, he said. Yeah.
I got you, you said? Yeah.
This is that scene in the in the book where he thinks about that.
He starts thinking about, you know, wanting about the same
concept, about how he would lie about something.
He's not specific, but it's similar here.
Now, he's a little angrier here than he is in the book, but it
ends up in the same place. There's also a little angrier
with Darren later, but it ends up in the same place, too.
Let's have the book quote because it's a little different,
but it gets to the same point and I think it's nice.
He knew what it was like to want something so badly that you
would tell a monstrous lie just to get near it.
I thought you were like me, he said.
Might be. You are only not the way I
thought. We're both from King's Landing
still, the boy said hopefully. Dunk had to laugh.
Yeah, you from the top of Egon's Hill and me from the bottom.
That's not so far, Sarah. So it's a little lightheart,
more lighthearted in the book and, you know, whatever, that's
fine. I think this gives it a little
more tension. That's just what's a choice they
made, and I have no problem with that.
In both cases, the scene ends when he finds out Baylor's
waiting. We're like, oh, you've got a
Prince waiting, Mommy, I'm not OK, we're going.
We're going now. So any other thoughts on that?
We can go ahead and talk about the scene with Baylor.
I did think it was interesting that Doug was that dunk was a
little bit more oh, frustrated, Indignant, maybe with Egg.
And that continues into Baylor too.
I'll talk about a little bit more there, but I think it's
interesting variation from the book.
I like Egg's little fit. Oh yeah, with his.
Sash, I don't know, I just like his his formal fit.
Pretty similar to the book description of what he's
wearing, minus like it has a big Targaryen sigil on.
It's the only the only notable difference there in the book it
does because it doesn't here. So Dunk speaks to Baylor and AG
is there for the first part of the scene.
Also like the book, a interesting note that a Shaya
caught there. The book he's reading.
We were we figured he was reading books about laws and
stuff. He is specifically reading about
Magor's Trial of Seven which was the last one and that included a
Sir Damon Morgan and there was also some other mentions of of
people standing in as champions for other types of trials by
combat. Not not necessarily trials of
seven, but just other examples that are in there.
Yeah, he specifically reads about how Sir Giles Morgan
stands on behalf of a very young King Jaharis First versus a Sir
Helt Languard, who was a disgraced Kingsguard.
Magor's Kingsguard. Yeah, so he stands on behalf of
his King Jaharis wants to do it, but they instead say the
Kingsguard can fight on behalf of the crown.
And then another example involving King Jaharis, which is
Sir Braxton Beesbury, who, you know, does dishonor to Jerry's
daughter Sarah, they, you know, so to speak.
And the King Jerry's does in fact fight him.
He's in his 40s by this time and he does does fight him.
The Beast Bears have really had a sweet role number of times.
There's some buzz about them for sure.
So the dialogue is pretty similar here as well.
Dunk defends AG immediately. There's the, the, the slightly
cutting remark. Don't spill it on him.
You know, that's, that's both that's in the book as well.
And that brings up our awareness that's we get in the book, it's
through Dunc's thoughts. But here he's already defending
Egg. He knows that Baylor's probably
going to be tough on him and Dunc's like, yeah, he's a good
boy, etcetera, etcetera. The same line about and you
don't have to intend harm to 'cause it, which we were
discussing earlier. ABS that's true.
Baylor points that out. He also point, but Egg points
out something interesting that Baylor doesn't really respond
to. And it's a good point.
He couldn't have reached the Castle in time, if to do the
proper thing would have meant leaving Tanzell with all her
fingers broken. Like you.
It means stopping her, stopping him later, when the damage is
already done right and there's no way to undo that damage.
So he focuses instead on Egg, pointing out how much he doesn't
like his brother Arian. And then Baylor pivots to that
is, we must except to say we must love our brothers.
So he kind of dodges that. And that's a underlying theme of
this scene. Undercurrent is that Daylor is
sort of quietly dodging a few things, but Dunk pushes him to
be what he really is. Baylor's like, yeah, I'm the son
of a king. I'm a man who has been around.
I've had to compromise. I'm a hand of the King.
Like I I have to deal with these noble Lords, pure powerful
people. Compromise is so much part of
his life. So that's how he's approaching
this in the 1st place is like, well, there should have been
some compromise here, no strictness.
But Dunk is Nope, Nope, Nope. The we took the same oath and
Baylor just can't argue against that.
He's like, damn, Dunk is right. So all these things he's trying
not to talk about, Dunk just keeps pushing him on all the
right pushes the buttons just right.
And Baylor just he's moved just like so many other people are
moved by Dunk's sincerity. But in this case, it's so much
more important that it happened because so much more is at
stake. It's not just, you know, if
somebody's speaking nicer to you because they realize you're not
trying to, you know, RIP them off like steely pey or something
like that. This is another level.
So a couple of things, you know, Baylor was sort of dodging the
the Aryan issue too, when he was like the Sept and say we're
supposed to love her brothers. Like the between the lines here
is like, even though he doesn't deserve it, you know?
There are a lot in there somewhere.
Come on. Yeah, like.
It's also a neat thought that I had that Baylor probably hasn't
had that much interaction with eggs.
He's a little frustrated with the egg and says don't spill the
drink. Probably every time egg comes on
to Baylor's radar, it's some kind of trouble.
That makes sense. Like Baylor doesn't necessarily
really know egg or that he's a good or a smart kid or whatever.
He just knows it. Him and Aryan got in another
fight. What's this about the cat?
Like he I could just see Baylor when he's worried about like
taxes and organizing events and meetings with nobles and all of
a sudden he's got to deal with egg again.
Or what is it with this little kid?
I can see him and hear once again, I don't know, this little
kid causing trouble. I could see on some level Baylor
being frustrated with him. All the more important for Dunk
to stick up. I guess I will say, though, here
at a big difference in this scene from the books that I I
don't know, I can't decide what I think about it.
Is it dunk is a little bit more indignant and and I don't know
what to say aggressive lawyerly versus Baylor here that in the
books, he was a little bit his thoughts were a little bit more.
He's a simple guy just trying to do the right thing.
Whereas here it's and and he and and that's kind of like his
demeanor and his thought and his attitude and everything like,
oh, I thought I was just protecting a weak person.
But here is more like, he's making his case against Baylor,
like, we took the same oath. He's like arguing with logic,
not baffled that he's in trouble.
Does that make sense? And here he's baffled he's in
trouble and trying to prove why he shouldn't be in a book.
He's like, oh, well, I guess I messed up.
He's a little bit more resigned to his fate, you know?
That's true. He is more, yeah, I agree with
that. He is more resigned to his fate.
He doesn't quite push as much or or as aggressively.
I would say I think Baylor is probably on edge when it comes
to egg a little bit. He knows how Aryan has turned
out. He knows that Deron is kind of a
drunkard and a mess, right. He there's not a good standard
for these sons. Yeah, of these of Makar.
So I would say he's more like pushing back against like a
violent tendency and a little boy and saying like, no, you,
you can't want that. You can't want that.
And, and he is making a religious argument for it.
But I think he's kind of testing him a little bit to see like, is
he full of poison and hatred in his heart or, you know, you know
what I mean? So I, I, I think the jury's out
for him. Now, Baylor is no Jaime
Lannister, but there is a similarity here in how he
responded to Brienne versus how Baylor responds to Dunk.
It's very similar in that they are amazed and charmed by the
sincerity of this person and how actually, well, actually, you're
actually right, really serious about this, aren't you?
Like they repeatedly tested and repeatedly they're like, no,
this person really is living up to true night vows.
The oath they take really seriously.
It's such a rare thing. You don't expect it.
Just like how Dunk was going around, people put up their
guard against him. They expect him to try to pull
something or that he's got an agenda, and then they realize he
doesn't and they're like, wow, this guy's actually sincere.
What a rare thing. And Baylor has been trying to
help Dunk all along for that. He's been trying to guide him
and do what he can, but he's feels constrained.
He'd, like I said, he's compromised.
He's compromising. In fact, that's a good way to
put it. He has been compromised by his
position. And the fact that he has to deal
with so many people with powers caused him to compromise so
often that he maybe lost sight of what Dunk says.
The the oath is the oath. You can't get around that.
And if Baylor wants to set an example, which he does, that's
the kind of man he is. If he's not going to take that
vow seriously, then really, then no one will, right?
Like, if the most supposedly the greatest knight in the realm
doesn't stand up for this, then, yeah, like, no one will.
In fact, they'll do. What happened is they'll laugh
at the very idea. Yeah, Baylor is really Hemming
and hawing here because he's thinking about the implications
of how this might go, right. His brother's going to be mad at
him. The the royal family will have a
more against him. Aryan might have to face some
penalty, or the crowd that got mad when he killed the horse is
going to be even more. He's just, he's thinking about
how all these things will go when play out and the trouble
and stress and reputation and da da, da, da and dunk is like none
of that matters. You just got to follow your own.
You know what I mean? Like Baylor through his whole
life has made, like you said, all these compromises, thinking
about how to keep the peace, how to stop rebellion, how to
collect the taxes, how to keep the family looking good.
And Dunk is reminding him like those are all compromises to
your oath, your honor, your integrity.
Like, what is all that matter if you get there through deceit and
dishonor and violence and lies and all this other stuff?
Like at some point, at this point, you got to stop cowing to
Aryan, you know what I mean? Like you can't let him be such a
bad person and also be a knight because what does that do to all
the other Knights you know? Aryan before was able to get
away with it because it was quiet.
It was under wrath. People knew they had.
He had this reputation. But the other thing that's
really big about all this is that Baylor realizes this is a
big deal. People are going to hear about
this. Whatever happens, it's going to
be widespread. People are going to talk about
it. That's what Stefan's point is.
He's like, oh, well, it won't be hard to find more people to
join. They want to be part of this
glorious event that's so rare. So that means it will be
remembered no matter what happens.
And that's part of why Baylor realizes he has to do something.
He has to step up, because this is a memorable thing.
That's the. Only reason we're still talking
about Giles Morgan or Damon Morgan and Braxton Beesbury,
they were in these big famous trials, right?
And so, yeah, Stefan wants to be in that history book that Baylor
was reading. Yep. 3 Targaryens, 3 Kingsguard
and Apple. And I still think Baylor at this
point is trying to get Aryan to back down.
He's telling dunk, look, challenge your trial by combat.
You know, he might be scared of you, might be scared of getting
beat up by you or even being embarrassed by you.
Like the Baylor's hoping that this is the out, the Aryan will
just back down. Which?
Wouldn't have been that hard for Aryan to do, honestly.
No one probably would have remembered this if he just back
down right? They would have remembered it as
much as he killed the horse. It would have been like this
black mark under targeted family that the next time there's any
drama it gets overshadowed. That's what Baylor is hoping
for. He's he's still.
A quiet result. You know, he doesn't think that
he's I. I don't know if he's thought out
far enough about the idea of airing.
Went to trial by 7. Dunk won't be able to get 7 to
fight for him. I'll have to fight for it.
I don't know if Baylor's played all that in Alex's mind yet.
I think he is hoping at least that it just doesn't get to any
of that. I think he is aware of the
possibility because he's looking at the book of about Trials of
Seven before the issue is even raised.
But I think you're right, it's a really important point that he
you're right that he's hoping Aryan will back down.
He knows Aryan, he knows Aryan's kind of a coward.
Not a complete coward, but kind of a coward, which is why he's,
like you said, it's a, it's a calculated risk that he might
just end it. He might look, OK, I'm not
fighting this guy. But he's like, hopefully Aryan
hasn't heard of trials by 7 because then he might do that.
Which is exactly what happened. It's interesting to think about
who Aryan might have idolized or looked up to in the Targaryen
history. Magor, perhaps.
And who was part of a trial of seven?
Magor, Right? So what?
Does he name his son? Yeah.
Magor Yeah. Exactly.
So it it just of course Aryan knows this particular piece of
history. In fact, he he knows all about.
He's a. Magor stand, Yeah.
He is I, I, I think so it's, it's really tight.
I would further explain why Makar was like what is this,
what are you talking about that he wasn't as aware?
Not a Makar. Stand.
Yeah, Yeah. Why would you be?
Unless you're someone like Aryan?
Yeah, unless you're just like, all about all the history, in
which case he's part of that. But.
But Makar Makar's not. He doesn't seem to be that.
No, he's not. So let's talk about ideals here
a little bit. This is the kind of interesting
the way this all plays out culturally, looking back really
far into history. I touched on this in the intro,
so referring to ideals, not combat traits or anything like
that. Long ago, the Andahl's migration
began in the large part because of Valyrian expansion, and a lot
of Andahl ideals are in direct opposition of Valyrian ideals,
which is almost certainly why they developed that way, because
this was their big great enemy. Oh, you're going to enslave the
weak? Well, chivalry says protect the
weak. It's the pretty much the exact
opposite. You guys are all about incest.
Well, then no incest. That's a pretty straightforward
opposite. Yeah.
So a lot of that stuff and it is playing out again, but it's the
Valyrian guy who's using the and all cultural tenant here as a
weapon. He you know, like we said, he
was maybe trying to get him to back down, but Aryan knew to
pivot to the seven and dunk is like, what's that?
And in the novel, just like in the show, Baylor says Baylor
seemed troubled and he's like, Yep, your gambit failed.
I don't know what other gambit. I don't know what other play he
had, you know, but he's like, this is not going to just get
swept under the rug. I tried by 7.
He's immediately, that moment knows either Dunk's going to not
have 7 and that's the result I really don't want, or it's going
to be this huge event that I really don't want.
Like everyone's going to know about it and everyone's going to
know why it's happening. There is another possibility
that Dunk just runs away and I I, Baylor may not Baylor's
doesn't. He's got a little snippet of
what dunks like, so he might not think that's likely, but it's
got to at least be a possibility.
Raymond recommends. It doesn't seem like Dunk ever
quite considers it, but in a book he does think to himself a
couple times, if I wasn't thick as a wall, as a castle wall, I
would just be out of here. That is like it crosses his mind
at least. That's a great point, Sean,
because he doesn't like, he just lets him go.
He's like go get your champions. He's like, he doesn't.
There's no like guards or no, yeah, there is no security on
that at all. That's a great point.
Yeah, I. Think Baylor has the measure of
a man and I think he can tell that he is honorable.
And I think Dunk, as much as he says he would do it if he wasn't
thick, Dunk is specifically is thick.
He is tall, right? Like he is a big guy and I think
it would be harder for him to evade capture I think.
He's. Very recognizable.
An average man of Raymond could probably get away with it.
They would lose their honor and they would have to restart their
life, but it would be possible. It would be possible.
I don't think it was really possible for Dunk, and I think
Dunk probably had some internal inkling that he couldn't get
away with it and he knew he couldn't live with himself, more
importantly. Now a little more on this
cultural background stuff. Even the concept of a trial by
combat is something that would develop in the and all cultural
sphere that would never develop in the Valyrians.
What do you imagine they're like?
Yeah, trial by combat against one of the Dragon Lords yet?
No, they're not going to let you do that.
Of course not. They might be.
Trying to let you do it, but they're going to use the dragon.
Yeah, or they might like only between dragon Lords, like only
if you're a high rank like them. It won't be to like regular just
because you're a knight. Like knight is pretty low rank
for this, right? Because there's thousands of
Knights, right? In Valyria there wouldn't be
that equivalent. So also Valyria's approach to
religion is interesting here to consider.
They allowed, like a lot of empires in the real world allow
pretty much every religion as long as it's not, you know,
causing a disturbance in the peace or causing aggression or
undermining the rule of the ruling party or the ruling
families, what have you. So and that interestingly keeps
anyone religion from getting too powerful because it's like,
well, there's like 100 of them. You know, it doesn't seem like
the idea that one religion is right is a lot harder to to get
into when there's like 80 more of them in your city.
But when there's like one that just has some variations on it,
you're like, well, that's the one.
So it's very different. And this is this is an example
of that like, and all religion is the one religion here.
They don't have a variety. So there's the Targaryens as the
ruling family are going to make use of that in ways that
increases their power because they're stuck with it.
They look, well, we're we've adopted and all values we got to
do this. Let's talk about Makar briefly
too. He is interesting in the scene.
He's a little bit different than the book.
He's a little more angry, a little less stern, ultimately
not super different, but there's a few different things in the
scene too that he has to react to.
Like the whole walnut Makar, like he first sees him doing the
walnuts and he's like he like he's mad, but he doesn't say
anything. It's like a kind of a pick your
battles kind of things. Like if I'm policing Arian all
the time, I just, that's, well, I would be policing Arian all
the time. I got, I just have some things
he's going to get away with just because there's so much, you
know? Hey, look at this face right
there. He's so done with his son right
here. It's so much it's, it's
distracting and disrespectful to this proceeding for Arian to be
cracking his walnuts but for Makar to crack down on Aryan,
It's also distracting and maybe, maybe not respectful.
He just doesn't want to give him the credit.
He doesn't want to encourage him.
He doesn't want to further distract things.
He said it perfectly. He's got to choose his battles.
Can I note here the great framing here of Aryan smacking
his his dagger or whatever down on on the nut and it goes it's
like right through dunks head. You know the way they frame
that. I thought it was very striking.
And then it pant goes away from that.
He says the dunk loosened his tooth.
Do you think he really. Loosened his tooth.
If he's eating nuts, OK, I'm just saying he's a liar.
He's a liar. So Speaking of pick your
battles, that's the perfect phrase because Makar is like, I
won't argue. I'm not going to get him on
this. And then when Aryan announces
trial by 7 and Makar has that explained to him, it Dons and
he's like, this kid just pulled me into his fight.
He knows he has to fight for his son.
Like it's his honor. This is the kind of man Makar
is. He can't make another choice.
He has to stand up for his son. Like it's it's their it's what
it's their appearance. This is, you know, Targaryen
marketing. He has to stand up for his son.
He can't not do that. And he's like, that's when he
gets that's when he does get mad.
He's like, you idiot, you know, he pulls him out of there and
he's like, this is an honor. This is nonsense.
He understands. He knows who his son is.
You know, he's like this is I haven't had enough of this.
I like even as they exit the room, he's pushing Aryan out of
the room there. He's so frustrated.
And if he knew what the final result would be like, yeah, like
what? This is actually going to cause
the worst example of chivalry because of his pettiness.
Ends up the realm loses the best example of chivalry.
His brother's gonna die because of this so-called nonsense,
right? Damn it.
Can I ask a question here? What is the birth order?
Makar's oldest son is Darren, right?
Yep. And then Aryan is next.
Yeah. And then?
Amon and then Egg and then sisters.
But in terms of the boys? Right, Daella, then Egg, and
then Ray. 'S last, but for for this
context here in this moment, Makar is even like, you know,
he's asked him like were you scared to just fight him on your
own? And Aryan says, Oh no, it's
Darren too. His honor was also slighted.
He's got to be part of this. So it's not just that Makar is
getting drawn into it. Darren's getting drawn into it,
which probably makes make our extra mag.
He knows Darren isn't going to want to do this, isn't qualified
for this. All that is all interesting, but
I started to wonder how conniving is Aryan?
Extremely. Seem to be smart right he's not
he's not dumb yeah and he we did point out maybe he has a streak
of cowardice but he's not just a coward cow it's not like black
and white coward or not coward right there's there's Aries in
between and he might not be purely brave but my point is
that he ends up. In a cell sort of company,
right? Here he was going to Humphrey
right when he stabbed that horse.
He's thought out this trial of seventh thing.
Is he angling to get Darren killed 100%?
Yeah, A. 100% he wants Darren killed.
I think he he's happy to have every, it's the same as house
Fray in Game of Thrones, right? Any person that is out of your
way in the line of succession is, is a net positive for you.
So I think he is that far thinking.
I think he is thinking that he wants to clear the way.
It's a long shot, but I do think he thinks it's possible that he
could become KA100. Percent.
He framed it the the minute Dunk said trial by combat, there
wasn't a pause. There wasn't.
He was like, Nope. Trial by 7.
Like he's like, I refuse. You can't refuse.
It's like, yes, I can. Trial by 7.
He was totally prepared. He said he didn't have a book he
didn't refer to He he was very prepared for that moment.
I agree. And Shay and I agree that he
thought through the consequences of it, the long term
consequences of it. Yeah.
Maker's like this is nonsense because he knows his own son.
Like you said, Sean, he's like, why?
Why would you want to bring him into this?
If your goal is to win, you know why would you want your
incompetent brother? Aryan sees, he knows Mekhar and
Deron will be in this fight. He could lose Mekhar and Deron
and then he's the he's, he's the head of his part of the family,
right? Great for him.
He he doesn't necessarily know that Baylor will join.
I think he was surprised. I don't think he was planned for
that, but I think he sees Baylor join and that he probably is
more happy about that than worried.
I think he thinks this is a great opportunity for me right
it? Could be yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Because yeah, you're right. There's there's there's a a long
time. There's a long time between now
and him, him being older, you know, and a lot can happen.
People can die. That's what happens.
The great spring sickness happens and make our does end up
king. So had, you know, Aryan got
really close to the throne, I think.
Aryan has fantasized about valor, specifically dying many
times. Right, I think he is.
Really, his competition, you know, the, the, the Crown
Princess, Crown Prince, you know, like the, the what he
could have been, you know. The only other one, and I was
really a warrior. Yeah, you know, yeah.
Exactly. So I think he, he sees him as
his competition, his main competition and and so he he, he
would like to knock Valor out as well if he had been in that,
that trial. And and taking it a step
further, we have to ask ourselves, at what point was
this thing with Stefan set up? Was Stefan already going to
Aryan or had he already talked to Aryan before this next scene,
which is Sir Stefan the betrayal.
Let's move on to that and discuss that possibility.
One last thing. In the book, Darren is in the
scene, but they wanted to kind of hold his, his reveal off a
little longer to make it more about him because that in that
scene he says like one line. So he wanted to like, let's hold
off and bring him in later. Then he can have a lot of lines
and rather than just be like, wait, that's the guy sitting
there. Yeah, it was a little would have
been a little distracting. I I agree with that adaptation
choice. Let's talk about Stefan.
Yeah, go for it. Can I help with the Segway to
Stefan by pointing out another pic I wanted to make for my
favorite scene was the segue is in general, I thought they did
such an awesome job that the show in general is doing it, but
particularly it stood out to me the moment when he's leaving,
like he he walks from the the you know, that meeting, that
council meeting or whatever to outside the castle gates and
it's raining to his camp and it's not they did these quick
cuts that I you know, what would have been an hour or more.
They showed us in three seconds and I think they do a lot of
that through the through the course of the show.
Really good clever shifts from 1 scene to the next.
So the scene begins with with Dunk leaving and encountering
Raymond near his horses, which is also pretty similar to how it
goes in the book. The are you hungry question is
repeated from earlier. This time he doesn't say always.
He's he says not really, because he's his stomach is churning.
He's worried about what's going to happen.
He's anxious. I love that moment.
Just to. Yeah, No, not actually.
Not always. Sometimes you're in emotional
distress and despite you know your size and the fact that he
should be hungry right then, he is not.
That was some hearty bread in the prison cell.
So yeah, when did Stephon betray Dunk?
Was it before? Oh yeah, before Do they?
Hug. In the book, do they mention
that they hug each? Other.
I like that moment. I like.
Too they they just like they embraced.
I thought it was sweet. And Raymond's a real one for
that. So it it may have come before
even joining. He may have already been
thinking about it, but it may have come after.
Which is somewhat implied in the book that he gets Dunks trust
and then goes to Ari and says hey I've got Dunk's trust, I can
totally screw him over here. I would say I, I guess it would
be that still I I get the yeah, it could have been the opposite,
but. Lost aways with him.
Yeah, exactly. I think better for Stephen to go
with like, hey, I have done this thing and I will betray him than
for him to go to Arian and say, hey, I could do this thing, he
might trust me. And then I'll you know what I
mean. Because it's pretty obvious the
Prince can do you a favor in return, right?
He's like, well, this guy, what's he going to do?
And he says he's going to name him Lord, which of course that
doesn't happen. Arian is, you know, exiled him
of like immediately after all this.
So Stephon, whatever reward Stephen was promised, I don't I
don't think he got it. Like what did Aryan have all
that money with him or a lordship with him?
Aryan First of all, Aryan can't make someone a Lord.
He doesn't have that power. So there's something weird going
on there with Stefan, like you, he believes more Aryan because
like, well, I'm going to be more powerful one day or something
like that, which is I don't know how that how that scene went,
but Stefan was by betraying Dunk.
He was also a bit naive about what the kind of man that he was
signing up for or with. I do think that he left not to
go get more nights or, or at least in addition, maybe he made
some superficial effort or something, but it makes sense
that he left there to go talk to Aryan or maybe some
representative of Aryan because remember he said he knew Sir
Lionel. I'll go get Sir Lionel, but when
Dunk thanks Sir Lionel thanks all the nights for coming and
thanks Stefan for coming to get them.
Lionel's like Stefan who he talking about?
He goes. Stefan, he doesn't even get the
right name. Yeah.
So it's clear that he at least didn't go get Lionel what she
said it was doing, which makes sense.
He went. I think it's also possible to.
Aryan made a promise that he knew we couldn't keep Stefan
maybe didn't know Aaron couldn't give him that land.
Or he talked to some representative of Aryan, or
maybe even Makar or someone else.
You know I. Don't think Makar had any
involvement in it but I. Also think.
Stefan, I mean, it's possible Aryan did talk himself up and
which points to the idea that Aryan was gunning for a higher
status. And then he might have said
like, hey, I'm the future of House Targaryen.
I will make sure sure you were rewarded one day.
You know, it might, he might have made it clear to him even
that this would be not immediately after, but I will
remember you, you will not be forgotten type of thing.
I agree with you all that this is the best chant.
The most likely timing is right after he then he leaves to go
say I'm going to go get more nights.
What he actually does is go to talk to Aryan, or like you say,
possibly one of his representatives.
Can I point out one of the little I think interesting
detail is Stefan says you won't die under my watch.
I promise you that an A that I don't know how much he kept that
promise, but the promise held true.
But I also wonder if on any level Stefan may be intended on
the other side to make sure it ended in some way that didn't
include Dunk being killed. I wonder if he did still have
some honorable intentions underlying his betrayal.
You know, I doubt it. And he doesn't.
He doesn't seem to have any good qual.
Like, Raymond is his cousin. And Raymond just always says
he's crappy. And I just believe Raymond.
Yeah. I would have believed that there
was some initial intention at least that he seems so I can't
think of the word sincere guest when he's like, I saw what they
did to the puppeteers and that's wrong and it's, you know, it's
not we are supposed to protect and I don't know, but then he
goes on about. How this is going to make people
famous and how he's excited about that, you know, So I think
that's really what he's. He's just like, yeah, I'm using
the cloak of true knighthood to vault my cell phone to a a
higher status, Yeah. Speaks to Stefan himself being a
good actor, not just not just Edward Ashley or whatever.
That that Stefan himself is a good actor because, yeah, it was
believable. I wanted to believe him right
there. Like it was a it was a good
argument. It was what Dunk wanted to hear.
It's what it it, yeah, it, it's, it's the argument Dunk's making
to Baylor about being a true knight.
So yeah, it was very believable. In in the book, Raymond
expresses doubt that Stefan knows those men, so they decided
to cut that line to make it more surprising, you know, to make
it's a little. Suspicious here, like I think
Raymond looks on edge and like he's not entirely sold.
He's not sold, you're right, But he doesn't come out and say
that, which was an interesting choice there.
I do think that was a moment when he said you could just run.
I think, I don't remember the quote, but I think that was
where that line came is like you could.
Just get. Yeah, it's after Stefan.
He's like, won't they kill me? And he's like, won't they kill
you anyway? Yeah.
So Daron in the book points out about, by the way, we're about
to talk about Deron, but he says Arian can buy a 7th man if he
need be. And yeah, that's also what
happens. So they didn't bother with that
line as well, presumably also to just to keep keep it a secret to
have the surprise. They boosted the sincerity.
They also wanted to boost the surprise.
It seems almost straightforward in that regard and it seemed to
work. Shout out Corn Emperor, who
sends a super chat of support. Appreciate that.
Well, let's talk about Deron the drunken Dragon.
Dreamer Egg enters the fossil way tent and tells Dunk, hey,
I'm still your Squire. It's a little slightly
complicated because he's like, does Makar know you left and and
Darren enters saying goods gods be good.
I hope not. Which is like, well, then is he
going to let you Squire for him after all, if he doesn't even
know you left? Like anyway, one that Darren
says that exact line, Gods be good.
I hope not. But a major line is added here
that I think slid under the radar.
He says, I can't. I don't want another foot
whipping. A foot whipping.
That is an extremely painful punishment often used as
torture. I mean, it used to be commonly
done as a, as a way to conceal torture because you could, you
know, your feet aren't seen necessarily like, look, this
person hasn't been beaten up, but the world is wise to that
now. And it's like a specifically
mentioned thing on like, like what, what's legal torture and
you know what, what counts as torture, things like that.
So it's like a thing in the, you know, the, all the aid
organizations around the world are well aware of this.
So the implications that Makar is doing that like they're
they're, they're not just saying Makar is a tough father and he's
like, no, he beats him. I just believe.
That I believe it and I but I don't necessarily believe they
just did that without talking to George about it.
So I think maybe that came from George.
Yeah. And it makes you wonder what
kind of punishments Aryan has gotten over the years, you know,
and like, what kind of, you know, what kind of example Makar
is setting for them, right? It's possible that, you know,
punishments that Aryan has gotten have made him tougher.
Like, well, I need to be a better fighter so my dad isn't
upset with me or I need to be more deceitful so my dad doesn't
catch me. Whereas it's made Darren even
more of a drunkard, even more care, even less I my father
doesn't even love me. Nothing I can do to impress him.
He's just going to beat me. It is in no way do I want to
justify it, but it is pretty egregious what Darren did here.
Like in addition to like, imagine like the fear that Makar
would have had over his boys. And maybe this having happened
several times before, he doesn't really worry about it.
But there he really is, suddenly missing two of his sons.
That's got to be troubling for like a week or more that they
were gone, right? And then on top of that, the
efforts of all the other people scrounging around trying to find
him and what's happened, other people that might have been
chastised or been whipped themselves from losing track of
them. Not to mention the dishonor he's
supposed to be in this tournament.
All these things. I you can see it is pretty awful
what Darren has done here. He's not as bad as he invited.
Me to do it. I can see why Dunk is this mad
And, and, and look at Peter Claffey's face here.
He's like, he really was like an enraged giant.
He just. Yeah, you're right.
And this was a very important adaptation choice here because
it doesn't happen in the book, but I understand why they did
it. In the book, Dunk notices that
he does draw his dagger, he just doesn't put it to Daron's neck.
He notices that Daron is completely unintimidated by it.
You got to show that, and this is how you show it.
Daron was not intimidated by having the dagger pushed up as
his neck, but he's afraid of his dream, so he was completely
unafraid of this. He's like, you know, he's like,
ah, just he's still joking and like playing it off.
He doesn't. He knows Dunk's not going to
kill him, or if he does, he just doesn't care.
But he's scared of the dream and he's scared that it is him in
the dream. So he's scared of his his
prophecy, but he's he must know that.
Well, I'm not going to die like this.
He's has certainty that Dunk isn't going to kill him there.
So I think that's pretty interesting.
Or he's accepted that he's going to die like this.
He could be like, oh, this is the moment, this is what I
dreamed about, go ahead and kill.
Then why is he scared of the of the dream?
Why is he scared of the dream then he's scared.
He's been scared of that dream and he's not scared of this.
So I think that's an important dichotomy.
Anyway, the dialogue is pretty similar to the book here as
well. He did some changes, some
omissions, but not not too different.
It's weird though. One thing that I thought was odd
here, slightly disappointing, was this show really leaned into
the comedic elements quite a bit, right?
And they took out two of the funniest lines of of Derrons
they took out. Well, he wasn't at the bottom of
my wine cup and I hadn't looked anywhere else.
And they took out my brothers have my measure when it comes to
fighting and dancing and thinking and reading books, but
none of them is half my equal at lying insensible in the mud.
We can hope that maybe that comes later, but probably not.
Probably not anyway. But they did keep the Too bad
Aryan wasn't born a Fossaway. Then he'd be oh, look at this.
A Shia has a Fossaway Aryan ready for us.
It says Aryan Fossaway after drinking the wild cider and it's
a it's a red apple with Finn Bennett's features and hair and
pose and I find it a very funny tweet and meme.
Good job to this person makes me really smile and it is a
favorite line of mine. But I want to say something more
about this line here because it comes in a interesting way to me
personally in that he's kind of, he's being a real Dick to
Raymond right here. But that is explained based on
something that isn't in the novel I find, which is Egg tells
him about the abuse that Aryan, you know, did to him.
And he's really opening up and it's really, it's really
intense. And probably Daron went through
something similar with Aryan, you might think, or has at least
experienced it, or eggs talked. You know, Daron is familiar with
this. And Raymond laughs.
He Snickers. And it's not, I mean, I, I feel
like part of that is it's awkward.
Part of that is it's gossip about someone that Raymond
really hates. It validates all those things he
was saying all. These things he was saying,
right? Like he's, he's that he's, you
know, kind of a freak that he's, he's terrible and a pedophile
and all these awful things, right?
And so he's he's Snickers, but Dunk does not like that.
And he looks at Raymond and scolds him with his eyes over
it. And Daron also does not like it.
And that's what leads him to say that right here.
He says that very snarky line to Raymond, kind of putting him in
his place, insulting him. And I thought that was a really
a good addition, in fact, to explain why Daron was like this
to him. Yeah, so that's 2 examples
there. You did that.
You showed this example there, and I and I pointed out the
example of why they had to go a little farther with the dagger
just to show that he wasn't afraid of it.
Now, let's actually talk about the dream when the Ample's dunk
outside to talk. It's also very similar to the
book scene. Let's have the quote first,
actually, and then we'll go from there.
This is the book version of the quote, which you'll recognize is
very similar to what you heard on the TV show.
I dreamed of you and a dead dragon.
You see a great beast, huge, with wings so large they could
cover this Meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but
you were alive and the dragon was dead.
This scene seems to have been shot similarly to House of the
Dragon Season 1 episode 3, I believe it was, when Viserys is
drunkenly weeping in front of the bonfire, telling Allison
about his dreams in a way that frightens and confuses her,
which is what's happening with Dunk here.
The implications are different. A lot of things are different
about it, but I think they were maybe trying to.
I agree that's. The vibe.
Of that really well shot, well filmed.
I think it exactly reminds me of of Viserys and Allison there.
And and I thought that the makeup and, you know, costuming
here was also really spot on in terms of how haunted Daron looks
and how teary eyed he looked, how kind of Red Nose, like a
drunk he looked, all these things.
They're on the red nosed dragon Targaryen.
And by the way, also this dreams like this or why Egg was a lot
more freaked out about the fortune teller.
He's like, well, my brother's dreams come true, why not?
So I know it's possible. Just a quick note, by the way,
that fortune was more realistic to Egg than it was to Dunk.
Dunk's like, yeah, sure, I'll be rich, but Egg's like I am a
royal. Like it's a.
You're on to something here. Super chat from Jillsville, who
says Darren Sigil is a possum. All right, yeah.
Fair. And Corn Emperor says.
I keep wanting to ask if egg is a way for us to see how Fagon
Young Griff would be as a king. Commoner life.
Oh, absolutely. There are like a dozen strong
parallels between Fagon and egg that we'll we've gone through in
the past. Well, I'll have to arrange that
because I can't remember them all off the top of my head.
So some other time we'll go through that.
Aegon is a fake commoner. Yeah, yeah, right.
Aegon is a fake royal. I know one of them is that they
both wear a straw hat. The first time we see Young
Griff, he's wearing a straw hat. That's pretty cool.
So let's talk about Steely Pate's Penny.
Another scene pretty much straight from the book really,
with a few additions that really couldn't have been done in a
book. Dunk takes a walk in the rain,
checks out the wreckage of the puppet show, and then we get
Tanzel's voice. Hearing him.
That's a great way to do it. Like, it's a different sort of
inner monologue, but he's hearing someone else's voice,
something that we already saw in a performance, and he's thinking
about how it applies to him. He's looking at Florian and
You're a Fool rings out in his head.
So it's really well communicated, but it's very
artistic. It also kept up our streak of a
flashback in every single episode because I will say I do
not believe the Arlen shot was an actual flashback.
I think it was for dramatic effect in Dunk's head.
And I think we have clues to that based on Dunk's garb, which
he didn't have back then. But we have a flashback because
we do see Tansel. So let's hope we know in episode
5 we'll get a flashback. Hope we get one in episode 6 and
and honestly every episode of the whole show.
Back Central. So he finds that head of floor.
He's looking at it. This was in the trailers.
We really wondered what the shot was for a long time.
And, you know, it's one of those other things, like what we
talking about Sean's like, you know, it actually makes so much
sense. Of course it's Florian's head.
The puppet show gets destroyed. I never.
It didn't even occur to me that this was a possibility.
And he's like, it was. I saw.
My God. Yeah, that's really obvious.
I think it's that we we were thinking of small puppets, even
though we had seen that they were large puppets.
But I think in our heads we still were in the small puppet
state of mind that it didn't cross my mind.
But also, I thought maybe this was a dream sequel.
This was like a flashback. At the time, I was like, I
considered that because I just because I didn't know what else
it was. Now this is some sort of
Shakespeare reference too. Yeah, it does seem to be.
I seem to remember in one of the behind the scenes thing that
that the head of Florin is a mold of Dunks head.
Do you guys remember hearing that?
I do not think I saw that, and I don't know that I think that's
true. Aryan's helmet is a multiple.
I think that's what you're thinking of is that Aryan's
helmet is Finn Bennett's face. But I I watched all of the
extras and I have not seen. That yeah, if anybody else heard
that weigh in maybe it was we. We'll see.
I think we've just. Seen Joe Magician who says he
thinks it looks like Dunk and he had a video where he talked
about how Florian looks like Dunk but I don't think he's
saying it was confirmed. Right on.
So just as steely Pate shows up and he tells him, hey, I've got
your I've got the shield. And before Dunk turns to leave,
you hear he remembers Tanzel's scream and then this.
This is another one of those great segways, as you said,
Sean, this is one of the more like overt ones where he closes
the door and it makes a snapping sound just like her finger
snapping. So it's like they're remembering
that pin. This is a great scene.
It's also like it's I'm almost tired of hearing myself say it,
but it's it's also a a wonderful thing that they keep getting
things so close to the book version, because this book scene
is scene is great. You've just nothing to change,
No notes, right. I mean, only the things that
have to be adapted for dialogue wise or, you know, visual wise.
Sir Arlen of penny tree meat steely Pate of penny rim or
penny shield. That's how much he charged.
Even the beard. Even in the book he's scratching
his beard when he says that. And from you, a cop, this great,
great line. So you have to have a lot of
content to understand why that line is.
That's the only thing that holds it back from being an even
better line because in a in a vacuum, it it's doesn't quite
stand, but it's great. It's great.
And the dialogue about the rim, the dialogue about the shield
and how he's thinks it's painted up like death and he's like, no,
it's a Elm's alive green. All that's from the book.
And then Dunk is crying just a little bit, wiping his eyes.
He's wet cuz there's rain dripping down.
So it's a little ambiguous, but it's.
Not ambiguous really, when you're watching, you do see
really clearly here. The tears spring up in his eyes
one and then fall down his his face, and then him wipe it away
and his nose running even he took.
His note of that too, like you're you're right, I guess a
share and he took note too, when when he asked what happened and
and steely Pate said they make for Dorn.
Well, well gone as well. Forgot also a line from the book
and he said good, Dunk says good.
And that I think Pate even more was sure about Dunk at that
moment was like, well, he's thinking first of her safety,
like he wants to see her, but her safety is more important.
And that's just another clue from steely Pate.
I think he already knew by then who he was dealing with, but
this was just more of the same. That shield looks so good.
I think this episode was like 95% the same as a book.
I think this episode, maybe more than any other episodes so far,
has been just straight from the book and even thinking about, I
don't know, some things we've touched on earlier, like a lot
of the lines spoken. I was pointing out that Doug's
interaction with, I didn't say it, but you kind of pointed out
as an actual Darren is an action from Baylor and his interaction
with the egg. We're all a little bit more
aggressive in the show than they were in the book, though the
lines were almost all still the same.
It was just like his delivery. And it's an example of how you
can, like with filmmaking, whether it's music or editing or
performances, still add something to it.
Even if you're perfectly exactly reflecting whatever the the
lines of the imagery in a book, but the emotion or the
performance or the music behind all that can change the tone a
little. But but even those little nuance
changes I think are fine. You know, I think it's, I think
it's interesting that they made Dunk a little bit more.
I don't know what phrase to use. They're maybe giving him more
agency or maybe putting ourselves in his shoes of like,
yeah, I'd be mad too. You know, it's a little easier
for us to maybe relate to him feeling so wrong than to him
being like, oh, well, I guess I'm just a big dummy, you know
what I mean? It's and that's also harder to
get across without his internal monologue, but.
Yeah, it's easier to act anger. And I think you're right on both
points that it is more relatable, more likable.
Yeah, I think that's a good point on why they would do that.
Yeah, I agree. I think I'm with you all on
that. And you know, just as a not
directly related concept, it's certainly a thing that
adatations do is you, maybe you modernize it a little bit, you
maybe make the language a little more familiar to people of
current generation. Whoever's watching now for 1/1
very simple example of this is egg.
When he's cheering for the Jows, he's yelling, come on, that is
something people say right now in sports.
That's a current sports cheer. Like in 2026 and 2025, that's
what people say. And he could have been saying,
let's go. And it would have been about the
same, you know, and then about like 20 years ago, he would have
been, I don't know, saying something else.
Aside about the sports thing, and this comes back to a
previous episode with Duncan Egg together, I thought it was a
really sweet, beautiful moment for them to bond over sports
there because if you're watching the behind the scenes inside the
episodes and all that, they showed that Peter Claffey and
Dexter Solan cell in the in filming, they really did go to
sports games to bond. And so you see them cheering
like, you know, at football games and stuff like that
together, which I, I just like that, you know, when real life
parallels a fiction so well. And it's just something that is
true of humans across across fiction and reality that we like
to cheer sports teams on. Can you imagine the real life
example of that? Like was his head shaved
already? It would be like Raymond's, like
I've seen you with that boy before.
Like who is that tall guy with that shaved headache?
You're probably just think it's his son or his little brother or
something like that. But like, Can you imagine like
seeing them and be like, that's weird.
And then like, five months later, you find out about this
show and you're like, that was Duncan Egg.
My God. Just like, wake up 1 morning and
just realize the memory comes back to you.
Yeah, David Fox 4548 says I'll help me with this.
Arlen had not been an attorney since the Baylor joust event.
So maybe he was going to ask for tonight.
Duncan, allow him to enter the attorney.
It's an interesting theory. In general, I like trying to
fill in the gap for why Arlen was going because according to
Duncan was sort of a sudden decision.
It wasn't like what Arlen had planned before and it was like
sort of a spur of the moment decision.
So there is a little something there maybe.
It was a knight, yes. I, I, I think it's a strong
theory. I think Arlen intended on Knight
and Duncan. I think he did.
I do think so. I think he was training him.
I think he he would have knighted him if it had happened.
But it didn't happen. And I I I think it's a good
theory, David Fox, that why else go to Ashford?
Unless Arlen just wanted one last send off, maybe.
I think also it's possible Arlen knew a certain Knight was going
to be there. A certain Lord, rather, Yeah.
There's a chance for employment there.
He wanted employment and he knew someone would be there that
might hire him, and he needed to be employed because he was.
He couldn't be as hedge knight as as readily now he was sick.
I, I think the problem with that theory 22 comments.
One, I think the problem with that theory is that Arlene had
already united Don. That's why would he need to go
to hospital. And the other is that it's
something I think is interesting that I don't even think they
need to give us anything else for it.
But they did make a point a couple times of showing that
gash on Arlen's forearm that I, I'm, I'm taking that's like got
infected and LED to his death. He just got a cold from the.
Donkey range was cold, but yeah, that's a good point that it was
more than that. He had the yeah, that that's
more more likely to kill you, like sepsis or something like
that. Good point, didn't even realize
that if Arlen hid that from him well enough and did just think
he got cold but. Yeah, yeah.
So here's a question for everybody.
It's not necessarily some. Again, it's the one that we
don't necessarily have an answer to.
But at what point does Baylor start thinking about the
possibility that he's going to join Dunk, not that he's made
the final decision. At what point does it occur to
him, like in the back of his mind, when does his subconscious
push him towards that? Like he's it's working at him,
right? Dunk, everything that dunk said,
everything that's happening, it's eating away at him.
He's he's realizing what he's got to do.
At what point does it become clear to him?
Like, is it all the way back in the early part?
Is it. Yeah, just I.
Think overnight. I think he he overnight as he,
he sat with his thoughts. I don't think it happened to
him, right? Azarian said it necessarily.
Maybe it did, maybe it did, but I, I think he overnight, he, he,
he, you know, probably prayed on it, even if he's as religious as
he's made it seem. I think he thought about it and
he made the decision. And then it had to have been a
bit in advance because he did have to go get his son Valar's
armor, get the breastplate stretcher for it so he could fit
in it and and then come out and get the horse.
Right. Like, yeah, he, he did have to
plan ahead. It wasn't, it wasn't at the
point that he knew Dunk was short.
That's what I know for sure. It wasn't when he knew Dunk was
absolutely short and when he knew Stefan had betrayed him
because enough time didn't pass for him to go get ready.
Yeah, I think getting all that armor and stuff would have taken
probably multiple hours. It's much having to get it from
his son and everything. So I don't think it could have
been like right at the last minute.
I think it's possible that he started considering it at the
same moment that Makar realized, wait, I'm going to have to fight
in this thing. I think he, I think it might
have occurred to Baylor at the same moment that occurred to
Makar. But I think it's also possible,
maybe more likely, that he caught wind of Stephen conniving
and realized it. Crap, I'm going to have to do
this. Sure, that's possible.
They're. Both in the same castle, Aryan
and Baylor. And Baylor probably knows.
Like who's Aryan visiting with? He might ask people.
I think it's where King's Guard could have told him or
something, yeah. I think.
That's green or other people weren't worried about finding a
7th. Even if you didn't necessarily
specifically knows about Stefan, he probably realized, wait, if
they have seven, yeah. Because Baylor would be
wondering who their 7th is too. He already knows who the six
are. He'd be, but he would be like, I
wonder who their 7th is. You know, he would be thinking
about that. He's not going to miss the
detail like that. So let's talk about the setup
for the trial. Obviously, the trial doesn't
begin in this episode. I presume it'll begin pretty
early next episode, not right away.
They've got to have Baylor's got to give a speech.
We might have flashbacks. There's going to be flashbacks.
We just don't know where they're placed.
Well, we know where some of them are placed, but we'll talk about
that in the preview episode. I love this shot of Dunk facing
the tournament grounds, which is no longer a tournament ground.
It is now a trial by 7 grounds with his sunset shield facing us
as Don breaks in front of him. That's a really great shot that
I think you had on screen earlier.
Oh, there it is. Cool.
Yeah. I love that shot.
Really. They made sure to get the colors
to, to match, you know, his shield, I think very well.
I thought it was. It was very beautiful.
Aziz. I agree.
So when Dunk walks in, he's not feeling good at all.
He's doubting himself. He's doubting a lot of support,
just a lot of things. And then there's people there he
is offered an egg in this trying time and this egg comes with
many benefits. When he walks onto the field, he
finds help away. Let's have the book version of
this because again it you could swap the book in the show
version and not necessarily be sure which is which quote.
Then he saw the others, the one eyed man with the salt and
pepper beard, the young knight in the striped yellow and black
Serco with the beehives on the shield, Robin Reisling and
Humphrey Beesbury, he thought in astonishment, and Sir Humphrey
Harding as well. Harding was mounted on Aryan's
red charger, now barted in his red and white diamonds.
He went to them. Sirs, I am in your debt.
The debt is Aryan's, Sir Humphrey, Harding replied.
And we mean to collect it. Got that exact line.
And this is when we get Sir Lionel saying who the HEF is,
Sir Stevron. And so as we said, as we
predicted, they were and and appreciated they gave a little
more set up for egg bringing Robin Reisling and the
Humphreys. Well, particularly Robin
Reisling and Lionel Brathian. Really, the the Humphreys come
on their own pretty much because they have their own motivation.
Yeah, we see the motivation of course, with what happened to
Humphreys horse and leg, which he references and can I say
Humphrey Beesbury, you have something to say about him, but
I don't know if you all noticed his mustache.
I just want to point this out. He he dyes his mustache, he
bleaches it. Basically he dyes it like honey,
colored like a. Bee honey mustache.
That is crazy. It's really, really very funny
to me. It's.
Honey mustard. I mean honey mustache.
Yeah, yeah, very funny. So Beesbury is there because
he's the brother-in-law of of Harding.
So that's pretty straightforward as well, well.
That's straightforward to us, but I did they mention that in
the show at all? Nope, I assume they're going to
talk about him a little bit in the beginning of the show
because there's a little set up more, but but yeah, he is not.
His name hasn't even been has been dropped even.
So check out Egg over here. He's just like, even though this
is really serious and everything is about look at Egg playing
with the ACT. He's just playing with the ax.
That's great. He's like, excuse me, he's even
making sounds. He is getting ready in case he's
called to join. He might need to be the youngest
ever night and he's got to be prepared.
Aziz, come on, you don't you? Don't you dream to imagine?
I I'm so wrong. You're so right.
So yeah, basically Dunk only found one helper on his own, and
that helper was a complete fraud, Stefan.
So yeah, it's an egg in this trying time.
Not an apple, but an apple does. Step forward, Raymond the
Squire, and it's awesome. Squire no more.
He's no longer Squire Raymond, and the apples are redeemed
somewhat. I still have forbidden fruit
though. Two things.
I love Stefan's armor. It is very cool and beautiful
with all the apples. And he also has like a very
stunning cloak with the apple embroidery on the back.
But I also love Lionel paying attention to this interaction
and I wonder if he's like, oh, that's Sir Stefan, Ron, what a
what an asshole. You know, glad I don't know him.
He's paying attention from when this happens, they make sure to
show him. So it makes sense that he then
walks over to get involved in the night and he has witnessed
this whole thing and sees that this guy's a real Dick.
I. Seem to remember that was in the
book too, that the other nights were a witness to this betrayal.
Yeah, you're right. I don't think Lionel said
anything, but he doesn't really say anything here either.
He just looks, imagine, put the camera on it to make sure it's
important that we know that he's looking.
Imagine everyone in the stands watching this up up on the Deus
up in the stands on the side, like what they see because they
see Stefan join, they see another Faust away like push him
and like they see an altercation has happened here, like maybe
rise. To the other side, maybe, yeah.
Exactly. It was probably very dramatic
for everyone to witness. So as we discussed, the Raymond
knighting was a great piece of cinema.
No need to rehash that. It was just so cool.
Really well done. Just changed the moment and gave
it a lot of gravitas like I said.
It also added added more fuel to the fire of everyone who won is
horny for Lionel because he looks great.
Two people who kind of ship those two.
I think there's like a look that Lionel gives Dunk here where he
is like, he's not going to do it.
He's not going to do it. And I think some people are
theorizing that Lionel suspects that he is not an actual knight
and that he is an imposter right here, that that's why he kind of
gives them the out. And maybe Lionel just suspects
that he has low self esteem about being a commoner.
But I think Lionel is seeing Dunk's turmoil here and that's
why he gives him the out right like he he kind of does him a
solid. He he, he gets something.
You know what? I know exactly what's wrong.
Whether he's Dunk is like, I should knight him because I'm
not a knight, or because Dunk doesn't actually know the words
because he hasn't heard them because he wasn't knighted.
Well, unless you're Sean. I seem to remember when we read
the books when we did the reread us of the books that we spent a
while talking about like what the words are that it's not
consistent that like different we we've had a couple moments of
someone being knighted and it wasn't done the same way each
time, which might even make sense and standardized format or
book or so Internet site to look it up.
You know, just different Knights who were knighted by different
Knights before them just do it the way they were.
And that might be different, different territories and
different time periods. And so that's maybe some
justification for dunks. Hesitant a good one because
there's got to be one. Since he hesitated, I don't know
why else he would hesitate. Can I also say that in that
moment, we even, you know, to whatever extent Lionel might
have been observed was going on and kind of given Duncan out
there the trigger, the specifically there was a trigger
both here and in the books. The dunk was called away in a
book. Someone said, hey, you need to
go see someone. He's a go and Lionel's ago.
Well, I'll do it. You go do that and hear the
horns Blue. And I want to bring that up
specifically because when those horns go off, those deep horns,
my cats get so scared. Does anyone else have cats that
do this? Are all three of my cats Like
their heads perk up, their ears go back, one or two of them will
run into another room. They are freaked out by those
deep horns. I'd let me know if we.
Have that in here. Yeah, we did not have that.
I'd be curious, curious to know. Can I mention something, Aziz,
that's kind of a a spoiler for something far in the future that
may not be on screen ever, But I I think it's OK to mention which
is Lionel talking about bloodying up the Kingsguard in
their pretty wide gowns. I think it's some foreshadowing.
You you might you might guess, right?
It might be, but George wrote that line in 1998.
Maybe he was thinking that far ahead.
It's possible. He might have been.
He does think of these things.
Fruition again, right? Yeah, Lionel does fight Dunk
many years later in a trial by combat, and luckily, no, no one
dies. Dunk is the center, of course.
He's the main character. He's the POV.
We care about him quite a bit, certainly more than Aryan.
Aryan is the antagonist, but it's interesting how Aryan is
the antagonist for like everyone, even the people on his
side, right, Like Robin Risling and Lionel Baratheon aren't that
focused on Aryan in particular, but the rest of them are the
rest of the five in Dunk's group there.
Sir Humphrey obviously cares because of his his personal
Beesbury. It's personal indirectly.
And the Kingsguard, like they don't want to do that.
Like that's not what they signed up for.
Like, yeah, we want to protect the king, but from real enemies,
not from this him doing this himself, from this as make our
put at this nonsense. And obviously Makar doesn't want
to be there and Darren doesn't want to be there, but there was.
Like a series of shots that I thought it was very telling in
which it shows, you know, Aryan and Makar arriving.
It shows the small folk. And then it shows, like, a
little kid watching him and like, just like the fear, like
Aryan looking at the little, little child, you know, And it
was really sinister and ominous and like, yeah, just just kind
of scary. You know what?
That it almost reminds me of the moment in Dunk's head when he's
as it remembers as a child, seen Blood Raven.
Yeah, this little kid is going to remember the day that they
saw one Aryan and two, saw a whole lot of other that's.
A good point that's a that's a good cause a good parallel Sean
Yeah. So it's interesting too.
One of the clues that Aryan maybe didn't even think this
trial would happen. He thought Dunk would come up
short one because of the fossil way thing.
He thought he, you know, outmaneuvered him there 2
because he has his own some of the people he has on his own
side are not very good. Like he he's got dare on his own
brother. Like he's already by including
his brother in this, he's including some of that's
incompetent. So that's not a plus for him.
It's only an argument to help him get the whole trial to take
place. So either way, that's relevant.
Here's a yet nobody wants to be there except for maybe maybe
some of the audience were like, Oh yeah, these guys are going to
kill each other. I want to see that.
Like people who came to see a joust, they're like, oh, they're
going to do it for serious. But like no one with a personal
stake in this wants to be there except Aryan.
So it's it's really kind of funny.
There's even a couple more to add to the list.
By the way, of course, Aryan is an antagonist to Tensell and her
whole puppetry crew. And are you believe to a a lot
of the people there, like you said, like, like they were threw
a rock at his head when he, you know, killed or, you know,
killed Humphrey's horse and he disrupted the puppet show like,
but also both Lord Ashford and his daughter, this is kind of
ruining their whole celebration for her birthday.
You know, she's maybe this extra exciting for her.
But Arian is going further to spoil it by bringing the fossil
weight to the other side. So now they can't even do the
freaking drawback combat. And I think that's part of why
Ashford when dunks like can I get him in?
And actually, yeah, definitely. Because if you can recruit
someone, that would be awesome. Because this would be a big let
down for my daughter if we don't even have this, you know?
I also got to be afraid because he's like I if what if a royal
dies at my castle? Like I don't he really doesn't.
He doesn't. He doesn't want this.
I don't think I. Do love that they show us a shot
of of little Gwen Ashford there who's having the the worst
birthday party ever. Yeah, she does not look happy.
It's almost like what she said was true.
She it almost came true. It war did not start over this,
but it did. The Suns being missing did
'cause a big drama, which is kind of what she was gossiping.
I kind of getting ahead of herself, but she was what you
wish for. Yeah, she was right.
Yeah. So what, what what people would
have to weigh here is kind of interesting.
Like if you're a knight in Stefan's place or thinking along
Stefan's lines, you're like, Oh, yeah, there's a great chance for
glory here, great chance to be sung about, to be written of.
On the other hand, you're going against the Targaryens.
Stefan had a good line for that. He's like dragon house, where
are their Dragons? So that he he had like an
argument ready for that to kind of downplay the danger of
there's still the royal house, like, yeah, they don't have
Dragons. They still have like more power
than anybody else. So yeah, which acknowledges how
powerful they were in the 1st place.
The the whole point. The royal house bribed Stefan.
That itself proves it, you know. It got better armor than anyone
else. Yeah, they got cool armor.
They got very cool armor. So Stefan is trying to live up
to that, isn't he? He does.
His armor look good too. You're right.
It almost makes him look like the centrepiece.
He's the one guy in gold. He got three guys in black,
three guys in gold and one guy in gold or white and one guy in
gold. Like, yeah, I'm the man.
The apple is the centre. So yeah, Like who?
Who can bribe better than Royals?
Like, no one can bribe better than a royal, right?
They have the most to give away, the most to offer.
Even their promises are worth a lot, like, which is what Stefan
got, which turned out to be an empty promise, most likely.
So it's not just that if you fight for dunk, you're making an
enemy of the Royals. It's that if you fight for the
Royals, you get an opportunity. But of course, there's only this
one slot. Only one person can fight with
them. So Stefan really, really seized
his opportunity there. One scene that didn't happen but
I pretty sure it will happen the the Commons just going mad for
Dunk, just showing him their love and him not and being him
being surprised and then Seeley paid explaining it.
He says a knight. Who do they think I am?
A knight who remembered his vows, the Smith said.
I think. It's 1 of people's favorite
lines in the series and I do think that people are pretty
upset and confused that it's not there.
But I, I think we forget the the again, the trial has not
officially started yet and they need to fluff for time in the
the next episode. And I think it could happen
probably just before the fight starts.
But I, I could even see a way they could write it in to happen
to bolster dunk during it. You know what I mean?
But I I think more likely it happens just before it kicks
off. Yeah, I think it'll still happen
for sure. Because remember, we got to get
the the whole bit where Baylor gets in a strategy about the
Lance's, you know, they're going to have to go get equipped and
have a huddle up. And I bet the only count of the
crowd at that moment. Yeah, there's a shot in the
trailers of them throwing up Duncan Raymond are like, you're
like, Oh my God, we're about to do this.
Also, there will probably be, like Ishaya pointed out, I bet
we get some solid extended flashbacks because there's not
that like at this point in the book, there's only like 12 more
pages, you know what I mean? Like there's not much left in a
book. It's the second longest episode
too. Episode 5 will be so you're
totally right. And there are trailer shots that
we've seen of flashback scenes that have not happened yet.
So yeah, it's it seems like boom, yeah.
Can I say you made me think of one other thing.
We're early when we were wondering about at what point
Stefan went switch sides or went to Aryan or whatever it was.
I bet it was after Darren and Egg came in to tell him what was
up. Or had he already left it?
That he had. Already left here.
He would still catch when he would realize, or maybe even
just figure on his own that it'll be Aryan.
His dad, Makar, his brother Darren, 3 Kingsguard.
That leaves one spot. I bet he just figured out
there's one spot I could be. Yeah.
You're you're that's a good theory.
Yeah, I think you're you're not wrong.
Are there no true nights among you?
Yet another iconic line that we were waiting on.
And, well, this one we got in the trailer.
So, you know, it's it's it wasn't exactly when we waited on
it was really great. I mean, you waited on it in a
sense, in that this novel was written so long ago.
Could I say I should have grabbed the link for it?
But as part of the promo for the season on the red carpet, they
had all the different, a bunch of the different cast and say
all but many of the different cast members do their own
rendition of Are there No True Nights Among You?
And they some of them do it in a very comedic way.
They give it all kinds of different, you know, different
twangs and intonations. It's it's really good.
I should have grabbed it and find it, but I'll, I'll put it
to the history of Westeros Instagram story.
How's that for y'all? If you follow us on Instagram at
at the history of Westeros. But it's really, really funny,
including like they have Raymond do it.
They have Aryan do it, Baylor, Peter Claffy Dunk.
He does another version of it that's actually like, very like,
casual and really, he does a very funny rendition of it.
So yeah, keep an eye on that. But they've been promoting that
quote, that line, since before the season premiered.
Oh, they know true nights among you.
Oh. I love it.
It's easy. Yeah.
We should all have to go around and do that.
Yeah, it's extra sad for Dunk because yeah, Sean, you, you
think about how you're going to say it because deep down he
knows that. Hey, I'm I'm not actually.
I wasn't actually even knighted, and nobody else here isn't is
acting like a knight. It's one of the great parallels
to Brienne because Brienne also isn't a knight.
Well, until she is, but for all that time she's not.
But she acts more knightly than any other night we've ever seen.
And until perhaps this guy who is a match, not necessarily
ahead of her, but equal. And think back what Aryan said.
The one of the first lines Aryan says to Dunk is knighthood has
fallen on sad times. Yeah, you, Aryan, you're the sad
times Dunk is. And this is exposed in this
moment. It's not the kind of thing Aryan
was talking about. It's not the problem Aryan was
referring to. But Dunk asked for true Knights
to back him, and no one did. So tonight it has fallen on sad
times. And I think Baylor saw that.
He heard the laughing too, probably, which which reminds me
of plenty of times when Brienne was mocked, but also when
Barristan was fired. When Santa thinks about how sad
that must have been to have people that that he'd looked at,
you know, where his his Co workers, Co workers, fellow
Kingsguard and his fellow brothers and all that.
So, yeah. And then when Autho stands up
and farts, it's like, well, we've they've been doing the
toilet humor all along. It was an efficient way to make
Dunk the butt of a the worst joke possible.
Like they're laughing at him over it's like it's just a silly
thing to laugh at, but they're laughing so hard because the
idea of it, they're mocking Dunk, They're mocking this
notion. They're mocking the idea that
what Dunk did was right. It's it's a really bad thing to
have happen. It's really just the, the it's
all the things this that the show and the novel we're
building up to are exposed here. It's like, yeah, really.
Knighthood has fallen on sad times.
Yeah. So, Shea, you put red up there
on screen. That's a really important catch.
So she's the one person not laughing.
Oh, look, that's Manfred right there in the corner in the left,
left there. So she doesn't laugh, Tammy.
Tamik said. She's there probably, I guess,
with him as part of his entourage, right?
That's why she because she's not a noble, she's a sex worker
who's up there. She's dressed quite nicely, but
she still, you know, would not normally be up.
There, and she knows who Dunk is.
She's had those conversations with him.
She knows what's going on to a certain extent.
And she got a measure of his personality, too.
And so when Baylor comes in, she smiles.
So we get it, cuts back to her. And I thought that was nice.
We see a whole lot of of different pairings of houses and
it's kind of fun to speculate on who they might be I.
Think that's Blackwood these. Are Lannisters.
That's. My guess, don't.
That's the Gray Lion and and Tybo, you're totally right.
You're 100% right and. It's like 2 lion.
That's that's what I think. I think it's just like.
How you? Picture a Lannister.
You're totally right. I don't know, but these two guys
have like fish scale. They don't look they're not
Tully's, but there's some kind of of house that I guess would
be associated with fish. If you have any good ideas, I'm
curious about this house. They almost, I would have
thought, I thought they were related to the Tyrells.
I don't know. And then we see these two also.
Love to hear your theories about them.
Of course. I think the Brackens are spot
on. They really look like the other
Brackens we've seen in House of the Dragon with these kind of
broad faces, you know, so I really liked that.
And then we see Medgar Tully right here and we see the
Tully's because there he is with his fish scales and his red hair
and, and all of that. And they're kind of in a
Riverlander section, you might think, because he's next to the
Brackens as well. So they might be slightly
grouped like that, and so maybe those other two or other
Riverlander houses. OK.
Yeah, that would make sense, yeah.
I just we love looking in at the background and seeing what
houses are around. I'm hopeful that when we get the
making of which they have been doing kind of they did episode 2
and three together, they might do, you know, four and five
together. I'm hoping that we get a lot
more shots without the color grading of all of these
background characters. You know, I wanted to say
another thought here about how he's appealing, you know, that
this specifically this group he's appealing to are the
privileged people, right? The the common folk, the normal,
regular poor or whatever people, they're on the other side.
But he's appealing to the privileged people.
And in the same way the Aryan looks at Dunk and says, oh,
knighthood's falling on hard times.
He's judging knighthood by your appearance.
You don't look rich and fancy. You don't have nice armor.
You're a knight, just some dude. How can you be a good knight?
It's really falling on hard times.
But that's not the measure of a good knight.
How you look and how fancy your armor is.
It's how high your integrity is in your honor, your vow and all
this other stuff. And it's interesting that these
people who are all privileged, they aren't as worried about
being true Knights as they are worried about staying in the
good graces of the king. You know, he's kind of
challenging the royal family here and they don't dare disrupt
their privileged positions to do the right thing.
And you even wonder if some of them in there was a kind of pan
through in a different facial expressions.
Some of them maybe feel a little guilty or wonder if they should
do something. But Otho makes it easy.
He just farts and makes a joke of it and like, oh, OK, cool.
I'm still in the right crowd. I'm still, we get to make fun of
the poor people. OK, yes, I'm still in the
privileged position. I'll just stay here and laugh
and not worry about doing the right thing.
And it's it's a kind of a sad commentary on knighthood, but
it's also kind of a sad commentary on society, even in
modern times. It's the way things go, you
know? And it's sad.
Commentary on Brackens, as usual.
Yeah, So I well said, Sean, one other thing about here to just
to consider, you know, Aryan, there's a lot of evidence.
At least it's some evidence that like several other Targaryens,
he got madder as he got older. He's not very.
He's not that old here. You know, we we mentioned that
earlier. He's obviously Finn Bennett is a
lot older than the character, just like Peter Claffey is.
And we've all seen that a million times as actors playing
in their 20s, playing teenagers. But that's a good change.
The tone a lot when they do that because you know, it's dunks in
his early 20s here, whereas he's like 17 in the book.
You know, he, he is only a handful of years older than egg
And so he it definitely changes a lot.
I I, I've mixed feelings about that of all the changes
actually, and that I feel like it does undercut some of it.
But I think Peter Clappy has a certain vulnerability to him
that still makes him seem kind of like a, a cult, you know,
like, you know, like awkward, you know what I mean?
Whereas and I think Aryan has a certain teenage brat quality to
him even though he is not a teenager here, he's still.
You know, 20 or 20 something. Still have that teenage brat,
yeah? He does, but that's my point is
like, I, I feel like at least they have the essence of like
they're, they're not full adults, you know?
There's something to that. Yeah.
And these guys are so privileged that they, you know, they may
not grow up as fast even even when Makar is their father and
pushing them towards it. So one last point about Egg as
we move on to the final scene, he in a sense, if we look back
on him running away from Aryan and from his family, it's kind
of like how he's doing the Andahl thing too.
He runs away from his Valyrian heritage and in favor of
knighthood. He comes.
It's like the Andahl's migrated over to Westeros and created
knighthood. Well, Egg ran away from his
Targaryen family and got a knight and became Squire.
You know, it's like a kind of a little microcosm of that.
So I like that It's not just because, and he points that out,
when he shaved his head, it wasn't just for disguise.
It was also to reject his brother and what he stands for.
I was going to say, I also really liked the the shot of
Egg's reaction to Baylor joining.
You know, he's like, he's like seeing like a real heroic act.
You know, he's seeing a, a member of his family that he can
respect and idolize and all that.
And I, I thought it was, it was good acting on Dexter's part,
because he really does look moved and odd in this moment,
right? Well said.
All right, let's talk about the entrance of Prince Baylor.
Baylor the 7th, we can call him. We talked a bit about this
before, you know, we talked about the expression on his face
and and how that was really well played and how it communicates
quite a few things. I would also add to that Baylor
may have been disappointed as well.
He may he may have been hearing, he could probably hear Duncan
yelling and and are there no true Knights among you?
He's probably knew what that meant because he knows Dunk was
looking for somebody. And it may have just made him
just like more both sad, but also more confident that he's
doing the right thing. He's like, yeah, this is
knighted, really. He would also realize at
knighthood as well on sad times. And everybody looks at him as
the perfect knight. So he has to set the example.
No, he's there's no better man to set that example.
And he sees that He's like, I can't pass on this opportunity
to set an example. It's also like his own virtue is
pushing him. Remember back when Sir Arlen, he
mentioned Sir Arlen? He's Sir Arlen told me you were
the soul of chivalry. You know, Makar has that
reaction. Makar's reaction here is really
interesting. He doesn't yell or get mad.
He's like, it's almost like he he's unhappy for sure, but it's
almost like he isn't entirely surprised.
He knows his brother, you know? Like he didn't see it coming,
but he's also not entirely surprised.
What do you all think about that?
What do you think about specifically about Makar here in
this moment? I would say he's surprised, but
the fact and and and he puts up a little bit of an argument.
He's like, are you mad? But he doesn't.
But that's it. He doesn't put up an arm and
pass that. I think he kind of knows he's
doing the same thing. Makar doesn't really want to do
this, but he kind of has to. And he realized, yeah, Baylor
doesn't really want to do this, but he kind of has to.
Well, sad. Very succinct too.
Someone in the chat, Jillsville asked why doesn't his armor fit
right about Baylor. That is his son Valar's armor,
and so it does look awkward on him.
I do think it does look like it's a little fitting.
Yeah, it's a good detail. He's not.
Not supposed to be. Fit.
I like that you were able to tell that not knowing what was
supposed to be happening. Really, it looks awkward.
So yeah, they they did a good job with that.
Great catch. So again, maybe I've said this
enough, but I think that if Baylor let's this moment pass,
he's basically basically saying that Aryan's version of
Targaryen supremacy rule by fear, do whatever you want.
Knightly vows are for the lesser folk.
He he just can't have that. He can't have that being
communicated. He wants to lead by example.
And it's that whole fear love dichotomy that people like Tywin
and and Ned and others have talked about in the first novel
and show this is that he realizes it's coming down to
that he needs his version. The example he sets is the one
that he wants promoted, the one that everyone hears about
afterwards. No matter what happens.
Obviously, like you said just before, Sean and Dunk isn't
thinking about any of that. Dunk is still just like what is
happening. I came here to maybe be in my
first tournament. And yeah, he doesn't have a
political mind. You know, he hasn't trained
these ways. He hasn't practiced thinking
along these lines. Even later, it's Egg who often
fills in these details for him and and acts as sort of his.
His stand in brain for matters like that anyway, but it is a
major concern. It's it's a huge deal.
And and Baylor's character is the one who really brings that
out. And that's why we care about him
so much is he's, while Duncan is representing quite a bit, Baylor
is a version of him that has way more power to change things.
So you like Dunk? We appreciate him.
We, we, we want him to, we root for him.
But until he becomes more famous later, he doesn't have this kind
of power. He can only affect the people
around him, which is a lot, but it's nothing like the heir to
the throne, right? So Darren's prophecy has a
dragon falling on Dunk, and knighthood will fall on even
harder times when Baylor falls on Dunk.
The best knight in the realm going out Jillsville ask.
Is Steely Pate serving as a Squire there?
It looks like it. Yeah, and he does in the show.
He does in the book too. Yeah, yeah.
Well, in the book he is he to Raymond.
What does he survive? Service.
No, he helps dunk. He doesn't.
There's no mention. There's no mention of someone
helping Raymond. So maybe he did also.
It's just not mentioned. That's my theory here, is that
that's where he, like Raymond, has no one to help him.
That's why Steely Pate would stick around, is that he's, he's
needed for that as well, right? It's a good point.
It's a good way to keep him on the field.
But yeah, it is. It is true in the book, but I,
I, I. It made me realize that Raymond
would not have anyone to help him.
Yeah, it's like we said at the beginning, but we were looking
at the first trailers like you can't tell that Egg is behind
him. You're like, that's not Egg
behind him. There's no way Egg could lift
that giant halberk and put it over his shoulders.
I'm like, oh, you're right. So it it's quite possibly steely
Pate. Don't just got that armor and so
might need some tips and clues about how it fits and fastens
and egg might also. He could help egg out with that.
Oh boy, can Aziz and I relate, Sean, Because we both have had
different types of armor. Me as Oscar Tully, Aziz as
Geral. He had kind of, I don't know,
leather and clothing. But it's very complicated, let
me tell you. And it's so hot.
Yeah, Hot. Yeah.
Anyway, So I, I, I think that's a great point that Dunk would
need to be helped and instructed in in how everything goes.
He doesn't know where. The straps go yeah, he said.
Basic things like that, like how do I?
Where does his belt go where he's on?
The ground because he's so tall. How can egg strap it on?
Yeah, yeah. Even if Egg was strong enough to
do it all, he wouldn't necessarily be knowledgeable
enough. And and so pay is probably
around to help with that, but also would help Raymond or
anyone else who needed it. Yeah, I don't know what's more
unrealistic. And this isn't a Game of Thrones
thing. It happens in a bajillion
different shows. And it has happened in Game of
Thrones, but also in a lot of other fantasy properties where
you just have this, you know, a knight kind of wandering around
by themselves. Like, well, how do you do
anything with your armor? Like, do you just keep it on all
the time? It reminds me, it's, I don't
know if that's more. It's recently I've come to learn
about another thing. It's unrealistic about a lot of
fantasy shows. And and this is a comedic thing
mostly. It's like, now that I have this
long hair, right? I could tell you that one night
in a hedge, if you have long hair, you're you're you're going
to spend 3 hours brushing your hair.
Yeah. So you can understand why
someone like Dunk keeps his hair short.
And you wonder why, like someone like Aryan on the road, like, or
like using the character I was playing when I dressed up as, as
like the Witcher, like, that guy sleeps outside.
Like, he needs magic to make his hair look.
That's the only way I can explain it.
Same. Same way they can put their
armor on by themselves. Neither of those things are.
I, I think about that and I've made that many times that point
about beards, like how, you know, trim and clean and even
when they're like, there's no electric razors, they probably
don't have mirrors or just out in the wilderness.
How do they keep? And I, I, I give a little bit of
a pass because they're from filmmaking.
They got to make them look. They got to maintain continuity
from scene to scene. So they just trim it and make it
look the same every time. But in reality, people would
look so much more disheveled and unkempt.
Even The Dirty, even the nobles would still Yeah, their hair and
their beards are all too nice. OK, my little tiny little thing
that bothers me and media of all sorts and I get why it happens.
And I'll say the show Norseman does a great spoof on this great
roof on it, which is that you can't hear people that well.
People's voices aren't projecting really that well.
And Dunk's speech that there back down there, how many people
were like what? How you know what I mean?
Like what? How well they could hear that
two, Who could hear that the brood of Bracken even even
farted. No one.
Hugely laughed.
Yeah, right. So like only the people around
him, they just, look, this guy stood up and did nothing is what
most people would have thought. You know what I mean?
And I, I have to just put that out of my mind because media
always, always just ignores that they don't have like a megaphone
to, to do this. And I do recommend on Netflix,
the show Norsemen, they have a, a great joke about like we're
like, what? What was that?
It's very funny. About how you How do you tell
who's on your side when you're not wearing?
There's no art. There's.
No uniform? How do we know who's who?
Do you know? Yeah.
You can recognize all the other thousand guys on our side, you
know, we're, we're not wearing uniforms.
We also got a good question here that I just want to bring up,
which was Lady Ruskalin asks, where is Valor in the scene?
And I think they they very pointedly, even when they show
everyone on the day, if they never show Valor and they don't
show an empty space, he probably wasn't up there right then.
They want to probably leave people to wonder if people are
guessing who it could be. They might guess get Baylor,
they might guess Valor. And he probably was out helping
his dad get into his arm. Yeah.
Exactly. So that that's, that's where he
is. I would and I, I we probably see
a shot of him now after this, but yeah, I think they, they
were pointedly not showing us the empty spots for Baylor or
Valor, even though they weren't. There like they unlike when they
wanted to make sure we knew Makar wasn't there, which is
different, yeah. Before we get too far past it
about the, you know, dunks voice projecting, that is something in
the Army you've probably seen in some kind of movies or training
about how they're like seeing Cadence.
Did they March or run? You have to be a leaders have to
be able to project their voice loudly, far, even when they're
exhausted because you got to shout out commands.
The battlefield is loud, you got to talk to someone 100 yards
away or whatever. You need to be able to project
your voice. And it's a skill that you have
to develop. And it also reminds me of the
scene and the Life of Brian when Jesus is on the hill, given a
speech and a camera pans out and you see the people around the
hill. But it pans out and there's more
and more people and eventually gets to Brian and these
characters. Like, what?
What did they say? What did the meat shell do?
What inherit theirs? Oh, good for the meat.
You said blessed are the cheese makers.
Yeah. Good for the cheese makers, but
they're straining to hear because it's so far away and
Jesus isn't belting out with a projecting voice, you know?
So they got some humor out of that that concept too.
Yeah, I agree. And your your point about voices
is actually in I think book three, Jon Snow thinks about how
he grew up practicing with Rob yelling from one.
They would go each go up to a different tower and try to yell
at each other so they could hear each other.
And Ned Stark at one point thinks about how Robert
Barassian had a great battlefield voice.
His his roaring, his ability to roar was extremely effective.
So this is actually our last little bit.
One of the things I mentioned at the beginning that's really
interesting is, is part of our experience.
People who've read the book already is seeing other people's
reactions to it. And I really want to know, like,
let us know. Tell us what does your family
think? Who are they worried about?
Like, I don't think anyone thinks Dunk is going to die, but
pretty much any of the other 13 characters could die.
I don't know if anyone really cares that much about Sir Donald
the Crabber's son dying. I think some people would want
Aryan and and Daron maybe to die.
Stefan almost certainly too. But I bet a lot of people are
worried about Raymond, maybe about Lionel I.
And I wonder how much our people.
I think people would worry about Daron a little bit.
I think he's you. You underestimate that.
A lot of fans do like a dreamer in the Targaryen family.
They are partial to that quality.
Casual fans, Yeah, I think casual.
Fans even, or a lot of House of the Dragon fans, I would say,
who've come over have become very partial to dreamers between
that, that becoming that, that so president and Helena.
And I've seen a lot of like art of Helena and Deron.
I, I don't know, I, I, I would say some people care about
Deron. And also, but sticking on that
subject with Deron, I mean, he gave that prophecy that a dragon
was dead, you know, and so like, what do casual non book readers
think about that? That kind of says a Dragon's
going to die. So yeah, who are who are they
most worried? Are they worried about make or
are they worried about Baylor? Like, are people worried about
Baylor? Like they're so excited that he
came out? The one effect of of that
besides the surprise, the great moment.
Oh, and we we didn't even mention the excellent use of the
theme song, the original theme. They redeemed it like they're
like, ah, we shat on the. Heroes theme, Yeah.
It was. That's the best use of that
theme song ever. It was really, really good.
Like well done. Our example of watching it was
Unsullied is the same people last week.
We watched it with who, who went like, wait, he's a Targaryen who
were very surprised. She went.
She went the Prince, it's the Prince, and she was very
enthused that that it was him and she didn't.
She was like, I couldn't have guessed it would have been him.
It was surprising to her and excited her a lot.
So I'm I'm kind of dreading watching the.
Next one will be all that excitement is going to get
snuffed out. I want to make another quick
point along this line, by the way, is that this is ostensibly
a fight to the death. Like I think a lot of people
watching aren't worried about any of these characters dying
because they don't realize that's what this is.
And and some of the details of this fight, that the rules or
how it's going to go down get talked about in the book that I
expect to get brought up in the next episode.
But the ostensibly they're fighting to the death.
I'm freaking, you know the mountain smashed the Vipers face
in right? That was a trial by combat.
This is they're not just like jousting for fun or for even
ego. They're jousting for life.
Yep. Raymond brings it up, obviously
Raymond does, and I think even does Stefan reference it as
well, He says. This is nightly combat, so your
skin won't be at risk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's all. Like that's all in one scene
where Raymond. Says felt like banter between
them, like Stefan trying to put Raymond down, maybe Raymond
doing a little bit the dunk, but how much does Raymond really
know? But I I don't know if it's
really driven home. I I feel the same thing too.
Like the fear of dunk losing his foot was more real in the book
because he could think about that.
You know what? I.
Mean it's hard to thought about. Yeah, so.
And that's kind of an irony too, like thinking about who's going
to die. None of the seven on Aryan side
die and only three people die total.
Bad day to be named Humphrey, OH.
My God, people died. I just like gives me so many
questions about about the faith of the seven and and what they
think. Come on, face of the seven you.
Know it's like it's kind of. Like a prophecy, it's always
this other piece of it that you that isn't good or isn't what
you think or isn't what you want, you know?
Sure, he can win, but there's a cost to be paid, you know?
They're like, how dare you evoke this?
Yeah. We're going to ruin it for you.
That's what's going to happen. You know the seven of our petty.
Yeah, I mean, really, Aryan doesn't get any consequences
from this, right? Other than getting exiled, we're
to lease the place where dragon. My point is that he doesn't get
any consequences from the trial and from the faith of the seven
if they were thought to exist, which to me this is a great clue
to me that they do not exist in my opinion, because nothing
happens to Aryan, who is the one wrongfully invoking it.
And he's a Valyrian, not even an and like there's many.
I mean, I guess he has and all blood.
But regardless, he if anyone's spitting on the face of the
faith of the Seven, it's Aryan right here, and he doesn't get
immediate consequences. No, and and in fact, had the
trial not happened, like there wouldn't have been a punishment
for him. That's another thing that kind
of just kind of gets lost in the shuffle is had there been no
trial or if Dunk just been executed or something like that
or been punished by losing his foot in hand.
No, under none of those circumstances has anything
happened to Aryan except for maybe Makar, you know, privately
punishing him, which might be pretty.
I mean, he does still. Publicly embarrassed, Severely
publicly embarrassed, and probably that's physically hurt
too. Dunk beats the crap out of him,
right? Also, can I point out one of my
favorite lines of the whole book of all of all of Martin's
writings was when I don't know, maybe I shouldn't talk about
this too much because they'll be next episode.
But when Baylor is, you know, kind of explaining his strategy
and there's a couple elements of it that dunk questions is like,
is that honorable Sir? And Baylor says the gods will
let us know. Well, maybe that was the gods
letting him know. No, actually, Sean, it wasn't
Dunk who says that. It's I think that's, I think
it's Lionel who says that. Yeah, yeah.
And it's that's when Beesberry's only line comes.
When he goes we will use like they're going to use 8 foot war
lances. Beesberry says we'll do the
same. He's like, Nope, we won't.
I truly hope all that is in there.
But me too, Yeah. So we'll see.
So yeah. Join us on on Friday, Amina
Shaya, for a quick 20 to 30 minute preview of that episode.
We're going to pour over the trailer.
And there's usually always the stills from the episode are
released by that point, so we have a whole fresh crop of
stills to go over on Fridays, which is always great fun for
us. That's right, images and fun
stuff like that. So unless we have any final
questions or comments, we can move on to the outro here.
How did the poll go, Shay? What a what do people say about
the what do they think? Would Darren have allowed this
to even happen? Would he have put his foot down
his Darren, the good, his good foot?
Would he have done that? I'm very curious.
About that people, 68% say no, 32% say yes.
And at the beginning of the chat, the, the, the comment
someone said was, well, he wasn't good and So what, what,
what? But what does that entail for
you? Is that, that he would be
obliged to say yes and follow honor or that he would say no
because he he knows better? I don't, I don't know.
Taylor might try to talk him into it for all the reasons we
described, the very many reasons that Baylor decided to join.
He might try to convince his father of that.
So yeah. I don't know the character well
enough, so I'm I'm hesitant to speculate too much, but I'm
wondering if he might have just said no, we're not doing in
this, Aaron, you shouldn't have done that.
Go to your room, don't get back in the tournament.
He might have just Yeah, I like to stop.
All the whole. Process, you know?
Yeah. I'd like to think that he could
have stopped it, but I don't know if once someone has invoked
the idea of a trial by combat or trial of seven, whether they
can. But I think he could have
stopped it before it even got to a trial by combat being invoked
at the point that Arian was like, well, why he you know, he
said this, this is treason and his Darren would have been like,
no, stop. You know, you know what I mean.
So I. Think if he'd stop that as much
too. But I think if he'd, let's say,
arrived, I think if he had arrived after Aryan had called
for the trial of seven, I don't think he could stop it at that
point. But he's the king, and you know,
laws can change and, you know, if he decides this is the time
to to change something, I think he still could, right?
That is his prerogative. This conversation reminds me of
a whole nother factor I forgot to bring up before 1 extremely
important dynamic that is hardly discussed at at all anyone in
the show or us analyzing. I've never heard anyone talk
about the idea that, you know, if you wanted to lawyer this
out, that they have to do this at dawn the next day.
What if, what if Baylor was like, all right, trial by 7:00.
We'll do it five years from now, everyone meet back up and we'll
have this stupid trial. You know what I mean?
That there are ways they could have like belayed this process
to give dunk time to get a crew together or to make Aryan.
They have a. Right to a speedy trial by 7.
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, exactly.
That's that's exactly what they have, a speedy trial.
You can't keep someone in. They could have kept him in
prisons for five years instead of giving him the trial by
combat, if they have that out, you know what I mean, I think.
They're probably not extreme like 5 years.
They could have given him a week or two.
Yeah, you know what I mean. I would guess that they have
some stipulation that has to be within a certain amount of time,
and you're right, it might be able to happen within a week.
What? Would be the point of waiting a
week though. Then he gets more.
Beautiful time to get a crew to. Go to get a crew together.
OK, sure the idea is that, but then it.
Undermines the whole thing that if it's a good 'cause people
will fight for it. But how do you decide what's
enough time? Yeah.
Yeah, what is enough time? It's like what if?
There hadn't been a lot of people around, you know, it
seems. Like overnight it was in a
tournament, right? What if this is just a random
thing? What if even Aaron couldn't have
got the people? Well, maybe Aaron could have.
Like, he wouldn't have a rave into the castle and Knight
King's knight right out there. But even that would have taken a
few days at least. Also like when does the is the
trial of seven decided in the evening?
And it has to be be in the morning, or if it's decided in
the morning and you have a full 24 hours, there's some leeway in
there. Like it's not like it has to be
within 12 hours, you know what I mean?
It's just like the next day that they're able.
And I think this is what I will say, Sean, is that they're all
gathered here for an event, right?
This isn't meant to just go on for like a week necessarily.
Like how long is the tourney going to be?
So they have some impetus here that they wouldn't have if they
were just in King's Landing, right?
You know what I mean? Like everyone's gathered here
and has travelled and is staying with Lord Ashford.
So there's a little bit of an impetus.
Ashford. Doesn't want it to be extended.
Yeah, that's. Exactly my point.
He doesn't want it to be extended or he'll be even more
poorer and and and in debt and all that he.
Needs even more tournaments. He needs to get betting
happening so he can make his money.
It doesn't make sense from like as as storytelling,
entertainment purpose to have it happen sooner than later.
But still, I think dunk was given less than 12 hours.
Like it was night time when Arie broke her finger and it dawned
the next day that you know what I mean?
Like it's, I feel like it's unreasonable to expect him to
get a team together that quickly.
I think it was AI think it was a whole a whole day in between,
but either way that's too fast. Yeah, maybe he sat in jail and.
It's not too fast because there's a magillion Knights
around and that this is the one time where I don't.
Either way, it's a it's a moot point.
We don't want to deliver. It's all insane.
Let's let's say goodbye everybody.
Hopefully you'll join us on Friday for the preview episode.
If not, we will see you next Monday for sadness.
I don't know what we're calling it.
The episode is called In the Name of the Mother and we will
be at our usual time of 6 to discuss it.
All three of us. So we hope you all have a great
week. Come back to us with stories
from your family and friends. We want to hear how everybody
reacted to this week and next week.
A full story of both the beginning of their love for
Baylor and then their sadness. We could we get we can get old
sagas from y'all entirely. Can I say one thing just really
briefly that we didn't talk about?
I had it on screen. People talked about it in the
chat. I would feel silly if I didn't
mention it. They gave Baylor heterochromia
to match his son Valar, and you do see it more clearly on screen
in this episode. I'm sure all of you have
noticed, but I I would feel silly if I didn't even mention
that that, that they did that. How cool is that?
Right. Yeah, it's, I think, I think
it's, it's like the Valar having the silver streak that we didn't
even realize he had it, but he does have it.
Yeah, I didn't notice it, but first and then once it got
pointed out I can't not notice it.
So like isn't. That the first place does fall
in that category. All right, everybody, thanks to
Bran for our great video intro. Thanks to everybody who came to
hang out with us Live Today. Also have a note if you Eagle
Eye viewers will note that our video intro outro is slightly
changed. Bran has iterated on it and I
think we'll have one more slight variant at the end of the
season. He added all of the Shields of
the the people on Dunk's side and the seven.
So make sure you pay close attention to the to the outro as
we play it. If you haven't reread The Hedge
Night, well, this might be a good time to do it.
You could probably just do it in a few hours and you're getting
close to the end of the season. This would be a good time to
like recap in your own mind. And if not, well, listen to our
Valar rereadus of The Hedge Night, which is publishing every
Thursday night. And we did that many years ago,
and it's being put back to the top of our feed because it's
rather relevant right now. I'd say.
Until next time, everybody. On behalf of Ashea and Sean
Valar, Rereadus.