1 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:52,100 Aegon's destruction of Heron, his line, and his castle was 2 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:55,420 huge by itself, but when we put it all together, with the events 3 00:00:55,420 --> 00:00:58,540 of the few centuries that preceded it, things got even 4 00:00:58,540 --> 00:01:01,140 more interesting. And in turn, the conquest and 5 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:04,459 the rebirth of the River Lands itself does as well. 6 00:01:04,940 --> 00:01:08,720 It's a rare glimpse at the Game of Thrones playing out prior to 7 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,440 the formation of the Seven Kingdoms. 8 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,320 Under the Iron Throne. We've got a host of the usual 9 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,840 suspects in the River Lands and the Storm Lands, Blackwoods, 10 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,800 Brackens, Durindins. Also the Face Militant, Did I 11 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,320 say the Face Militant? The Faith Militant? 12 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:26,480 The Face Militant. They have very militant faces. 13 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,600 And when the Ironborn joined the fray, we've got an early mention 14 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,920 of what might be the same dream slash prophecy that Aegon 15 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,730 himself had. So today we'll go back in order 16 00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:40,330 to go forward because we have ample reason to do so. 17 00:01:40,770 --> 00:01:44,050 All that and more on this episode of History of Westrose 18 00:01:44,050 --> 00:01:49,130 podcast. Hello, and welcome back, 19 00:01:49,130 --> 00:01:52,850 everybody. We are here every almost every 20 00:01:52,850 --> 00:01:56,170 3:00 PM Eastern on YouTube for our live streams. 21 00:01:56,450 --> 00:02:02,240 Afterwards, those get posted on YouTube, or rather in Spotify. 22 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,520 So you can always see the video on YouTube and you can see the 23 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,720 video on Spotify. And you can catch the podcast 24 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,000 version also on Spotify or anywhere you catch podcast, 25 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,160 whether that's iTunes or Pod. What's that place called? 26 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:17,840 Pod. Any Pod catcher? 27 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,920 I'm forgetting the name. We're saying it's every Sunday 28 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:23,240 at 3:00 PM Eastern, not every 3:00 PM. 29 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,080 We do not street. Did I say every 3P? 30 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,640 M You did say every 3:00 PM, but we do not street. 31 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,320 You said it. We have to do it now. 32 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,680 You said it. I just I just 7X star schedule 33 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,000 with with a careless sentence. No. 34 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,600 I think Speaking of careless sentences, I think the face 35 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:44,050 militant is clowns. Because yes, that's clowns. 36 00:02:44,050 --> 00:02:47,890 Yes, they're the militant faces. Anyway, thanks for the 37 00:02:47,890 --> 00:02:50,450 corrections. Yes, every Sunday at 3. 38 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:54,490 And because we're putting up the videos on Spotify, the release 39 00:02:54,490 --> 00:02:56,530 date's a little longer. It's not usually up on Monday 40 00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:59,770 these days, but that's okay. It's up on Tuesday or Wednesday 41 00:02:59,970 --> 00:03:02,050 and you get just as much time to enjoy it before the next one 42 00:03:02,050 --> 00:03:05,730 comes out. And if you catch us on patron, 43 00:03:06,290 --> 00:03:09,280 yeah, it's ad free. That's nice if you're a. 44 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,320 Three. And it doesn't have UMS and UMS. 45 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:13,280 That's right. We do extra editing. 46 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,360 So it's a little tighter. You lose the visuals, but you 47 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,160 get a tighter edit. That's the trade off. 48 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,680 So how you doing Sean? You got what is that on your 49 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:21,960 shirt? I see. 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,480 I can't make it out. I see you got. 51 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,450 That's a tree, right? It's an image from Avatar, the 52 00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:30,930 last Airbender. The characters sons was buried 53 00:03:30,930 --> 00:03:32,450 and you went to visit the grave of this tree. 54 00:03:32,450 --> 00:03:35,090 Well, that's sad. Yeah, it was a touching moment. 55 00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:38,010 I have just a regular old House of the Dragon Sigil here. 56 00:03:38,010 --> 00:03:39,410 Or Targaryen, House of the Dragon Sigil. 57 00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:42,650 Well, it's got black fire and dark sister of swords crossed 58 00:03:42,650 --> 00:03:44,090 above it, I think it's not so regular. 59 00:03:44,090 --> 00:03:45,090 I love that it's true. You're right. 60 00:03:45,090 --> 00:03:46,490 It's not so regular. It's. 61 00:03:47,490 --> 00:03:48,930 It's official. It's an official shirt that 62 00:03:49,130 --> 00:03:52,050 makes it regular, that it's not fan made or anything. 63 00:03:52,210 --> 00:03:55,320 Yeah, that's. I will say that my shirt this 64 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,400 moment reminds me of Dunk and Arlen. 65 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,120 Yeah, that is what it made me think of as well when you were 66 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,440 describing it. My shirt, y'all can't see it. 67 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,160 I feel like I wear that shirt frequently during streams. 68 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,600 It's a game of Owns shirt. Our good friends A game of Owns 69 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,120 gave me the shirt years ago and I feel like every time I stream, 70 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,000 I'm like, what shirt are we wearing? 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,240 Game of Bones. I think they're doing a Dunkin 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,360 Egg reread right now. Yeah, they sure are perfect. 73 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,320 Shout out to our good friend Nina. 74 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,160 Her blog is good. queenalley.tumblr.com That's 1L 75 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,120 in alley. Her latest post is very relevant 76 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,480 to what we're talking about today. 77 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,400 A comparison between Shiera Blackwood and Argella Durandon. 78 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,840 Now Shiera Blackwood, you may not know that name. 79 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,960 You know the name Shiera and you know the name Blackwood, but you 80 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,360 may not know this particular individual. 81 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:47,340 She comes up in the World of Ice and Fire, and she's going to 82 00:04:47,340 --> 00:04:49,620 come up today. Argela Durandon, of course, is 83 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:52,900 the daughter of our Galac, the arrogant, who will be getting 84 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:55,780 into more detail and in an episode or two when we talk 85 00:04:55,780 --> 00:04:58,460 about the Battle of the Last Storm and the campaign against 86 00:04:58,460 --> 00:04:59,940 the Storm lands during the Conquest. 87 00:05:00,220 --> 00:05:04,140 So her comparison will perhaps mean a little more after you've 88 00:05:04,140 --> 00:05:06,100 listened to those episodes. But if you want to preview, 89 00:05:06,380 --> 00:05:07,980 check it out now. And there's lots of other great 90 00:05:07,980 --> 00:05:11,980 posts on Nina's blog as well that are relevant to our recent 91 00:05:11,980 --> 00:05:14,100 episodes or not. Some of them are, some of them 92 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,060 aren't. I do want to bring attention to 93 00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:19,460 my drink this week. I'm having mighty water. 94 00:05:19,460 --> 00:05:21,780 Look at that. It's green and purple. 95 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:25,460 That's so weird. It's the green machine naked 96 00:05:25,460 --> 00:05:29,300 drink mixed with watermelon, Red Bull and Doctor Pepper, and I 97 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:31,820 was trying to make it as murky and muddy as I could for the 98 00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:34,020 representation of the River Lands. 99 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:41,180 The trivia hangout this month will be Tuesday the 26th at 9:00 100 00:05:41,180 --> 00:05:43,120 Eastern. It's going to be a Jeopardy 101 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,560 style trivia game with a grid of questions. 102 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,560 If you you can join through Discord and access the game 103 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,320 using your browser. And it's going to be if you're a 104 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,320 patron, you can play. We're doing this test. 105 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,320 Maybe in the future we'll be able to open up for more people, 106 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,520 but that's an incentive for you to join our patron. 107 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,040 If you want to play some Song of Ice and Fire game with trivia, 108 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,320 the questions will be written by me, so if that's extra incentive 109 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,300 then join us. Or e-mail us for more questions 110 00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:12,620 if you're curious about how it's going to work. 111 00:06:13,140 --> 00:06:14,980 Yep. Just join the Discord and you'll 112 00:06:14,980 --> 00:06:16,620 get more information. That's right. 113 00:06:16,620 --> 00:06:20,140 There's a link to join the Discord in both the link of the 114 00:06:20,220 --> 00:06:23,860 video, and we'll make sure it's in the link for the podcast as 115 00:06:23,860 --> 00:06:24,980 well, which I don't think we usually do. 116 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:27,700 So we'll put that in. All right, Our trivia. 117 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:30,420 Speaking of trivia, our trivia question for today, who is the 118 00:06:30,420 --> 00:06:33,580 first character in A Song of Ice and Fire to say Blood and Fire, 119 00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:35,780 To say Blood and Fire. Not in this because sometimes 120 00:06:35,780 --> 00:06:37,460 people think it right. It's sometimes part of the 121 00:06:37,460 --> 00:06:40,410 narrative. And I'm not saying fire and 122 00:06:40,410 --> 00:06:41,850 blood. No, I'm saying blood and fire. 123 00:06:41,890 --> 00:06:44,450 So fire and blood, Blood and fire. 124 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:46,810 Who's the first person to say blood and fire? 125 00:06:47,130 --> 00:06:50,850 Yes, it's a little. Is it the is it the first person 126 00:06:50,850 --> 00:06:54,250 chronologically to utter those words, or the first time we got 127 00:06:54,250 --> 00:06:55,810 it in the book? Good question. 128 00:06:55,810 --> 00:06:59,650 The first person to utter it in the books, going through that 129 00:06:59,650 --> 00:07:00,170 order? Yes. 130 00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:03,130 The first person to utter it chronologically, as far as I 131 00:07:03,130 --> 00:07:07,720 know, is in this episode. So good catch, Sean. 132 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,200 That may have been why you pointed that out. 133 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,200 Very sneaky, yes. So let's start with the We're 134 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,080 going to start in the with right where we picked off, and then 135 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,600 we're going to Wiggly, Wiggly, Wiggly. 136 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,120 Jump back in time. But we'll start with this quote 137 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,080 at the aftermath of Heron Hall. Heron and his last sons died in 138 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,480 the fires and engulfed his monstrous fortress that night. 139 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,960 House Four died with him, and so too did the Iron Islands hold on 140 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,610 the river lands. The next day, outside the smoky 141 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:36,170 ruins of Heron Hall, King Agon accepted an oath of fealty from 142 00:07:36,170 --> 00:07:39,730 Edmund Tully, Lord of River Run, and named him Lord Paramount of 143 00:07:39,730 --> 00:07:42,090 the Trident. The other River Lords did homage 144 00:07:42,090 --> 00:07:45,450 as well to Agon as King and to Edmund Tully as their Liege 145 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:48,250 Lord. Weeks if not months later. 146 00:07:48,250 --> 00:07:51,930 The castle was still hot, and we know that when Foreign Stark 147 00:07:51,930 --> 00:07:55,570 shows up there later, it's still going to be smoldering. 148 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,000 And this is maybe when this talk of burning ghosts begins. 149 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,000 Certainly couldn't have started before the castle was burned. 150 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,480 Don't know that it started right away. 151 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,320 But yeah, maybe it didn't happen until people started living 152 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,440 there. But people may have already 153 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,840 started talking about the curse cuz of just the dramatic fall of 154 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,800 Heron and the way the story was being told. 155 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,240 The day that Agon landed was the day the castle finished all 156 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,840 these things. That's the kind of thing people 157 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,250 would start talking right away. But anyway, what a place to give 158 00:08:25,250 --> 00:08:28,610 homage, right? I I wonder a little bit about 159 00:08:28,610 --> 00:08:32,610 that, by the way, if George had any ideas in his mind of of 160 00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:36,880 Chernobyl, the idea of this. Massive construct that had been 161 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,520 burned almost fantastically still. 162 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,000 Smoldering cursed land Still doing harms? 163 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:47,320 Yeah, yeah, I agree with that possibility. 164 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,200 I don't know if it's. Sort of a lesson to future 165 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,600 people, you know. Lots of parallels, whether you 166 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,720 thought or not. I like to draw the parallels. 167 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,200 I like the lesson aspect of it too, because we've certainly 168 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,120 talked about that quite a bit. You're right, that's a great 169 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,840 point. And I think we've used that 170 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,560 metaphor of Chernobyl in other areas of West of not Westeros 171 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:09,320 but of Planetos because we put that out as an as a possibility 172 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,040 for Ash I for what went wrong there as well As for Mentares, 173 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,280 we've used the Chernobyl example for both of those. 174 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,000 Some sort of permanent long lasting damage that causes 175 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,240 mutations and maybe we don't have the mutations here at Heron 176 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,200 Hall, but we have some strange things that that work for that 177 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,400 metaphor. Yeah, that's a great catch. 178 00:09:29,310 --> 00:09:31,030 So it's a strange place to give, Ahmad. 179 00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:35,590 You're bending the knee in front of the largest castle ever and 180 00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:37,950 it's on fire or smoldering really hot. 181 00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:44,150 And you're well cowed, I think by or awed by what just did 182 00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:45,630 this. The dragon Valerian. 183 00:09:45,630 --> 00:09:48,980 Probably just sitting there chilling, eating an entire aurox 184 00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:51,660 in one bite, you know? Well, you know, I hadn't 185 00:09:51,660 --> 00:09:53,660 considered that part of the image that Valerian would be 186 00:09:53,660 --> 00:09:56,260 present for this. I mean, right, Like you're 187 00:09:56,260 --> 00:09:59,620 bowing to the king, but you're acknowledging, and he's probably 188 00:09:59,620 --> 00:10:02,100 acknowledging that the one of the reasons he is king is 189 00:10:02,140 --> 00:10:05,540 because of Valerian. And that's who did the damage 190 00:10:05,540 --> 00:10:08,180 there on this castle. So, yeah, reminder of what? 191 00:10:09,060 --> 00:10:11,020 Who? Who bears the great weapon here. 192 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:14,340 And by the way, we're gonna have to think about this later, but I 193 00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:17,250 want to set the stage now. Megor. 194 00:10:17,370 --> 00:10:20,690 Megor did a lot of this demonstrative, burning and 195 00:10:20,690 --> 00:10:23,530 destructive things, but he did it for the wrong reason. 196 00:10:23,530 --> 00:10:26,970 He didn't do it for reasons that that it were as cunning and 197 00:10:26,970 --> 00:10:30,330 nuanced as as his father. Aegon used destruction as a 198 00:10:30,330 --> 00:10:34,170 deterrent, whereas Megor did it as a challenge to his enemies. 199 00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:37,770 He's like, ah, what's up? You know, I burned your thing. 200 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:39,970 Come get me. You know, like this was Aegon 201 00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:41,730 did. This is like the exclamation 202 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:46,110 point, the period, the ending, you know, But Megor did it to 203 00:10:46,110 --> 00:10:50,470 like cause more harm, to fire his enemies up, to get them mad. 204 00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:55,470 And to yeah, Megor went after things that were popular, made 205 00:10:55,470 --> 00:10:59,670 himself the one who was hated. Where Agon destroyed the things 206 00:10:59,670 --> 00:11:03,350 that were hated to make himself popular, and Agon destroyed his 207 00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:05,230 foes, Megor destroyed his friends. 208 00:11:05,230 --> 00:11:08,590 So Megor did a lot of the same things, but for very different 209 00:11:08,590 --> 00:11:10,470 reasons. And and and didn't have the same 210 00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:13,180 thought processes. So just a little tidbit of 211 00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:15,420 preparing for that, because of course it's going to be a little 212 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:18,820 while before we get to Megor. Agon's reign is long, and Megor 213 00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:20,820 of course isn't the second king, he's the 3rd. 214 00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:25,180 And of course he had Vsenia for a mother, which I'm not sure is 215 00:11:25,180 --> 00:11:30,690 the the best thing to grow up peaceful and friendly. 216 00:11:32,010 --> 00:11:34,050 Anyway, we'll have time for Megor when the time comes. 217 00:11:34,050 --> 00:11:35,450 Let's rein it back into the timeline. 218 00:11:35,450 --> 00:11:36,530 We're focused on it for a minute. 219 00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:38,930 Actually, no, let's not. Let's go back. 220 00:11:38,930 --> 00:11:42,210 As I said, Wiggly, wiggly, Wiggly back in time for some 221 00:11:42,210 --> 00:11:43,930 fun. Additional context to when the 222 00:11:43,930 --> 00:11:45,970 Riverlands was last. Self ruled. 223 00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:50,410 Now side note as we begin our Riverlands flashback. 224 00:11:50,410 --> 00:11:52,770 We did two episodes on the history of the Riverlands, but 225 00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:55,770 it was so long ago that the World of Ice and Fire wasn't 226 00:11:55,770 --> 00:11:57,770 even out yet. So those episodes aren't up 227 00:11:57,810 --> 00:11:59,610 anymore. We took them down quite a while 228 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:01,610 back. There's a part three that's 229 00:12:01,610 --> 00:12:04,610 still up because it's just the current times, which we didn't 230 00:12:04,610 --> 00:12:07,090 need the World of Ice and Fire or Fire and Blood to talk about. 231 00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:09,330 We might say a few things differently since it's been so 232 00:12:09,330 --> 00:12:11,250 long, but other but the information wasn't out of date 233 00:12:11,250 --> 00:12:15,050 when we said it. Now, of course, we're coming 234 00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:17,650 back to this topic, but we didn't. 235 00:12:18,010 --> 00:12:19,250 Well, I have a question. Yeah. 236 00:12:19,330 --> 00:12:23,050 If do folks have access to that if they're patriots? 237 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,600 Does anyone have that one? I don't think so. 238 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,080 OK. I'm just kind of curious if it 239 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,160 was in our like archive, like if someone did was really it might 240 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,160 be on the Patreon. They might be able to find it. 241 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:35,000 It might be. Actually, I'm not sure. 242 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,320 I don't. Know anyways argument that you 243 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,640 know, I think it predates our patriot, that's how. 244 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,600 Yeah, I think it does create our Patreon, but I feel that I think 245 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,680 that in our episode searcher in the database, it might be 246 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:50,250 catalogued there. Anyways, some of you would have 247 00:12:50,250 --> 00:12:52,330 seen it way back. Probably like if you're a patron 248 00:12:52,330 --> 00:12:54,650 or something and you're like, I'm dying to hear this like, 249 00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:58,090 really inaccurate episode and like, go back in time and have a 250 00:12:58,090 --> 00:12:59,770 time club. So like, yeah, we could do that. 251 00:12:59,770 --> 00:13:02,610 We just don't want, like, people accessing our content and being 252 00:13:02,610 --> 00:13:04,330 like this, thinking that's our quality level. 253 00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:07,050 Yeah, yeah, just to. Be clear, some people might be 254 00:13:07,210 --> 00:13:09,950 interested. If we, I was going to say if we 255 00:13:09,950 --> 00:13:13,230 redid the river lands, it might be need to compare and contrast 256 00:13:13,230 --> 00:13:15,990 those old episodes. But we're we're almost doing, 257 00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:18,070 redoing the River lands right now, right here. 258 00:13:18,110 --> 00:13:19,910 Yeah, at least this historical part. 259 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:23,070 Because when we did the World of Ice and Fire coverage, we never, 260 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:25,630 we didn't do the whole book. We didn't do every single thing 261 00:13:25,630 --> 00:13:28,550 we realized we were. We're just picking topics and 262 00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:30,270 covering them. And a lot of those came from the 263 00:13:30,270 --> 00:13:31,830 World of Ice and Fire. But there wasn't any read to 264 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:34,230 call it need to call it Valoridus, because we weren't 265 00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:37,750 going in any kind of order. We're doing a little bit of that 266 00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:39,630 here, but it's not a regular thing here. 267 00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:42,070 And we didn't get to this part of the world of Ice and Fire, 268 00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:43,430 which was the long history of the Riverland. 269 00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:46,590 So anyway, let's talk about that, which it reminds us that 270 00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:49,310 Heron's vassals amongst the River Lords they turned on and 271 00:13:49,310 --> 00:13:51,350 when they turned on him, they were merely following a 272 00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:55,110 tradition of sorts. This kind of thing of the River 273 00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:57,870 Lords fighting amongst each other or whoever was in charge, 274 00:13:57,870 --> 00:14:00,870 whether it was an insider or an outsider, was very common, 275 00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:03,020 though I doubt Haron himself would have bothered to learn 276 00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:04,860 this or cared if he actually did. 277 00:14:05,060 --> 00:14:07,660 Anyway, here's what the World of Ice and Fire has to say about 278 00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:10,260 that. Quote In all the long history of 279 00:14:10,260 --> 00:14:14,140 the Trident under hundreds of rulers, there was hardly ever a 280 00:14:14,140 --> 00:14:18,380 time when the river folk were not at war with at least one of 281 00:14:18,380 --> 00:14:21,620 their neighbors. Sometimes they were forced to 282 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:25,860 fight upon 2 or even 3 fronts at once worse. 283 00:14:26,290 --> 00:14:29,770 Few of the River Kings ever enjoyed the full support of his 284 00:14:29,810 --> 00:14:33,170 own Lords. Bannerman memories of ancient 285 00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:37,970 wrongs and bygone betrayals were not OFT put aside by the Lords 286 00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:42,090 of the Trident, whose entities ran as deep as the rivers that 287 00:14:42,090 --> 00:14:47,250 watered their lands. Time and time again, one or more 288 00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:51,290 of these river Lords would join with some invader against their 289 00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:53,970 own king. Indeed, in some cases. 290 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:57,620 It was these very Lords who brought the Outsiders into the 291 00:14:57,620 --> 00:15:01,380 Riverlands, offering them lands or gold or daughters for their 292 00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:06,580 help against familiar foes. Many a River King was toppled by 293 00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:10,660 such alliances, and each new battle only served to set the 294 00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:15,020 stage for another to follow. With hindsight, it is plain to 295 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:19,340 see that it was only a matter of time until one of the invaders 296 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:23,260 chose to stay and claim the Riverlands for his own. 297 00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:27,070 Yeah, I mean, think about it. If you think of the biggest 298 00:15:27,070 --> 00:15:30,990 rivalry, house versus House in Westeros, let alone the River 299 00:15:30,990 --> 00:15:32,750 lands, you think of Bracken Blackwood. 300 00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:35,670 Most likely that it comes to the top of my mind anyway, I imagine 301 00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:37,950 most of you all are the same. It's the example of a 302 00:15:37,950 --> 00:15:41,150 longstanding blood feud, just unbelievably long that it's been 303 00:15:41,150 --> 00:15:46,000 running, but apparently that attitude is supported within the 304 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,120 River Lands, which is full of feuds and long running grudges 305 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,160 and long memories and stubbornness and lack of 306 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,800 forgiveness and things like that. 307 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:00,240 So yeah, it's a very bloody region for a lot of reasons and 308 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,400 that's one of the reasons as well that it's rarely united 309 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,730 because of this long running enmities, these grudges, these 310 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:09,370 you know, things they don't forget. 311 00:16:09,490 --> 00:16:12,010 You might say the phrase with the only ones with water under 312 00:16:12,010 --> 00:16:15,010 the bridge. Nice. 313 00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:18,210 It's funny to do you point that out too, because the phrase 314 00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:20,810 would be relatively new on the scene, especially at this point 315 00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:23,130 that we're getting into. They probably weren't that big a 316 00:16:23,130 --> 00:16:24,450 deal. Yet they are. 317 00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:30,690 They're only about 600 years old as a house, and right now we're 318 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:34,450 going 300 years. The conquest is 300 years prior 319 00:16:34,450 --> 00:16:37,530 to with the current times, right? 320 00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:40,930 The books are 300 years after the conquest roughly and we're 321 00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:42,970 400 years before that. So actually yeah no we're but 322 00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:45,330 we're 100 years before house Fray so we are in the pre fray 323 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:47,130 times of the river lands here. Y'all. 324 00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:50,290 It's before they existed or before they built their, their 325 00:16:50,290 --> 00:16:51,930 toll bridge. They may have existed but they 326 00:16:51,930 --> 00:16:55,730 didn't have a castle. So they're they they built the 327 00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:59,730 bridge 600 years ago, a wooden bridge and then just with the 328 00:16:59,730 --> 00:17:02,170 little keep on each side and those were wooden also. 329 00:17:02,170 --> 00:17:04,210 And now now they're both. Now all of it's stone, the 330 00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:08,220 bridge and the the castles. So yeah, it's been a nice run 331 00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:10,180 for them. So if you. 332 00:17:10,180 --> 00:17:12,780 Is a little humorous or ironic or whatever you hear you say. 333 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:15,700 They're only 600. Yeah, they're only three times 334 00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:21,180 older than America. So if you knew, if you've been 335 00:17:21,180 --> 00:17:23,619 playing close attention or well read on the subject already, you 336 00:17:23,619 --> 00:17:25,900 know that it we're not talking about the iron born in terms of 337 00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:28,780 inviting an outside conqueror, they were not invited. 338 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:32,380 They were unfortunately supported by some river Lords, 339 00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:35,120 but they weren't like hey Harwin Hardhand, come here. 340 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,560 Nope, that's not what happened, but it is similar to what 341 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,520 happened here. Like Agon Heron's grandfather 342 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,200 took the river lands away from a different conqueror. 343 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,520 So let's start with who it was taken away from. 344 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,400 When the river lands ruled, it ruled itself last. 345 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,400 The title was actually called the King of the Rivers and Hills 346 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,640 as opposed to Heron who was the king of the Isles and rivers. 347 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,480 And the Teagues were originally who are the ruling house house 348 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,920 Teague. They were originally called the 349 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,080 King of the Trident, but they eventually became king of the 350 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,190 rivers and hills because they expanded their domains and maybe 351 00:18:06,190 --> 00:18:11,630 increased their prestige. And the borders with the West 352 00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:14,510 are hilly. So some of those areas have been 353 00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:17,990 kind of a neutral zone, sort of a sometimes it belongs to the 354 00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:21,590 Riverland, sometimes it belongs to the West, and those those 355 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:23,630 hills mark that border. So sometimes those hills are 356 00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:26,870 part of the Riverlands. If you recall Rob, when he was 357 00:18:27,150 --> 00:18:31,230 named king, several people shouted King of the Trident 358 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,120 because it was like an ancient title being brought back again 359 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,480 that they remembered. They wouldn't have said king of 360 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,560 the rivers and hills to rob at that point anyway. 361 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,160 So this is the final king that we're going to, well not really 362 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,680 the final reign. Technically there's more kings 363 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,040 because, you know, sometimes someone king dies in battle and 364 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,280 then their son immediately becomes king and then they die 365 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,640 like 5 minutes later. We've got that sort of scenario 366 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,320 here. So technically there were 367 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,280 several more kings after Humphrey Teague Humphrey the 368 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,520 first Teague, but they didn't really rule. 369 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,800 So 700 years prior to A Song of Ice and Fire, this Humphrey 370 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,720 Teague had a lot in common with Baylor the Blessed. 371 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,200 He wasn't frail like Baylor and he didn't have any problem 372 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,120 having children, but he was extremely pious and spent a lot 373 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,680 of his reign founding new Seps and Mother Houses. 374 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,000 This might have made the local Olds God's worshippers a bit 375 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,800 anxious and for good reason, because he really did have a 376 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,000 target painted on them. You can pretty easily guess 377 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,480 which house would be the most concerned. 378 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,520 That's right, the Blackwoods. Lord Roderick Blackwood might 379 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,120 have seen this problem coming ahead of time. 380 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,680 Or perhaps he was just playing the Game of Thrones the way it's 381 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,480 often played, which is, you know, get as much power as you 382 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,880 can. He married one of his daughters 383 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,720 to storm King Arlen the Third Arlen. 384 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,320 Yeah, we always talk about King of the Hill somehow in the show, 385 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,440 and it might have been a double marriage because Lord 386 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,320 Blackwood's daughter, Shiera. There's Shiera Blackwood that we 387 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,080 mentioned at the outro here at the intro. 388 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,570 Rather, she married King Arlen's son as well. 389 00:20:00,570 --> 00:20:04,490 So two marriages of Blackwood to Durindon. 390 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:07,770 That's pretty interesting. Blackwood's not super close to 391 00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:09,650 Durindon. They're on the other side of the 392 00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:11,730 Red Fork. It's not that close. 393 00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:14,330 They're not in the same Kingdom. So it's kind of interesting that 394 00:20:14,330 --> 00:20:15,810 this happened. It's not not just one marriage, 395 00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:17,970 but two. It implies a very tight 396 00:20:17,970 --> 00:20:21,330 connection, more than just an alliance. 397 00:20:21,330 --> 00:20:23,410 It looks like they had plans together. 398 00:20:24,060 --> 00:20:26,220 This was not King Arlen's first marriage, which you may have 399 00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:30,060 figured that out by the the fact that a a son and a daughter 400 00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:34,740 married this guy and his son. So, like, how far apart could 401 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:37,780 they all be? Anyway, Arlen may have regarded 402 00:20:37,780 --> 00:20:42,100 the old God's well because he actually got married at he 403 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,260 married Lord Blackwood's daughter at Raventry Hall in 404 00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:47,420 front of the dead Wherewood, because the Wherewood was still 405 00:20:47,420 --> 00:20:49,980 dead back then 700 years ago. Which is kind of a neat little 406 00:20:49,980 --> 00:20:54,930 detail. Usually what we see is the bride 407 00:20:55,050 --> 00:20:57,610 marrying the husband at his castle because she's joining 408 00:20:57,610 --> 00:21:00,050 that house, right? That's usually how it works. 409 00:21:00,050 --> 00:21:01,770 In fact, that's the overwhelming majority. 410 00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:03,970 So the king of the Stormlands getting married outside the 411 00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:05,930 Stormlands is pretty interesting, especially because 412 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:08,370 this is a separate Kingdom. This isn't like in West like 413 00:21:08,370 --> 00:21:11,690 modern Westeros, where if the Lannister marries a Baratheon, 414 00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:14,130 they're all maybe they're in different regions, but it's all 415 00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:16,650 the Seven Kingdoms, it's all one ruled by one king. 416 00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:18,930 This was not the case at this time, so it's even more unusual. 417 00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:21,770 Nina comes up with some examples of other times when this 418 00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:23,970 happens, because we wanted to kind of compare this and say, 419 00:21:23,970 --> 00:21:29,490 hey, how often do marriages happen at the bride's place and 420 00:21:29,690 --> 00:21:31,650 the bride's house? And there's definitely some 421 00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:34,170 examples and they all have some things in common. 422 00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:36,370 We it looks like we uncovered a bit of a pattern here. 423 00:21:36,970 --> 00:21:39,410 Ned and John Aaron's double marriage to Catlin and Lysa took 424 00:21:39,410 --> 00:21:42,200 place at River Run. That's one example, and this was 425 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,840 part of partly in due, due to the need for speed. 426 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,440 They were at war. They needed to get this thing 427 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,520 done quickly. They couldn't just go have a 428 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,440 marriage at Winterfell, have a marriage at the veil. 429 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,880 I mean, there was fighting in the veil already, you know, and 430 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,960 the and Winterfell is damn far away. 431 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,840 So I can't do. That and that's like the thread 432 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,360 through, that's the thread through all these examples, 433 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,880 right? That the basically some sort of 434 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,820 war or immediacy was necessary, but that's not the case for this 435 00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:11,420 Blackwood Durand in marriage. They may have seen war coming, 436 00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:13,620 they may have been worried about it in the future, but it wasn't 437 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:15,620 actively happening. No one was actually at war at 438 00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:17,740 the time. So they could have gone back to 439 00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:19,460 Storm's End and had the marriage there. 440 00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:21,220 There was no pressing need that we know of. 441 00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:25,140 So that's pretty interesting, and it may imply some politics, 442 00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:30,180 some symbolism, some making some statements that the other Lords 443 00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:31,660 would be able to see and interpret. 444 00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:33,260 These other examples, I don't know if you're going to run 445 00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:35,980 through them all, but they're almost all in the river lands 446 00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:37,620 too, right? Wherever the. 447 00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:41,980 I wonder if that's because maybe the river lands are quicker to 448 00:22:42,260 --> 00:22:45,100 abandon tradition when there is war, or maybe because they're 449 00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:46,660 more likely to be mixed up in war, right? 450 00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:49,900 Yeah, more likely to be in the cross of two entities that are 451 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,420 coming at each other or they themselves being split apart. 452 00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:54,420 So that's a good call. So yeah, let's run through these 453 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:56,100 real quick, just we don't need to linger on them. 454 00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:57,740 But I want to throw the examples out there. 455 00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:02,420 Rob Mary Jane Westerling at the crag, which Rob felt pressured 456 00:23:02,420 --> 00:23:04,660 into marrying her cuz he got her pregnant and thought that was 457 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:07,020 the honorable thing to do. So that was another that was a 458 00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:09,220 bit of a shotgun wedding. Do it quickly. 459 00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:11,180 Let's say he hadn't. He would have been marrying, 460 00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:14,060 Yes. What's your name at the He 461 00:23:14,180 --> 00:23:16,460 hadn't picked. He hadn't picked a Fray yet He 462 00:23:16,460 --> 00:23:17,900 was allowed to choose, and he hadn't. 463 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:21,020 So that's why you can't think of 1, because he hadn't shown one 464 00:23:22,980 --> 00:23:24,020 of those phrases. But you're right. 465 00:23:24,020 --> 00:23:27,940 So he also did it to avoid having to marry the one he had 466 00:23:27,940 --> 00:23:30,460 promised to marry. And then that one did as well. 467 00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:32,980 That one actually became Ed Muir marrying at the twins. 468 00:23:32,980 --> 00:23:34,380 Which Ed Muir didn't want to do that. 469 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:36,300 He wanted to do it. He he's like, no, why do I have 470 00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:37,740 to go there? He argued against it. 471 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:39,540 And they're like, dude, we got to make amends. 472 00:23:39,860 --> 00:23:42,460 Oops. So there was an There was an 473 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:45,780 extra reason there, too that was acknowledged as unusual. 474 00:23:46,460 --> 00:23:48,180 Marjorie marrying Renly at Highgarden. 475 00:23:48,180 --> 00:23:52,580 Now that was where Renly fled in the aftermath of Cersei's coup, 476 00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:56,380 when Renley first tried to team up with Ned and Ned rejected 477 00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:59,300 him. So this was also very much a 478 00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:01,140 matter of of doing things quickly. 479 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,420 He also had to out be quicker than Stannis. 480 00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:07,780 It also seems like Dick and Tarly wed Eleanor Mooten at 481 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:10,780 Maidenpool. That's Randall Tarly's second 482 00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:15,580 son but chosen heir, right? And Maidenpool was. 483 00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:18,740 Randall was basically ruling Maidenpool when we see him 484 00:24:18,740 --> 00:24:20,420 there, right? Brianne showed up and he's like, 485 00:24:20,420 --> 00:24:23,940 well, I thought that, you know, his own night says it isn't this 486 00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:25,700 in this Lord Mutton's roof, you know? 487 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:30,940 And he's like, you're fired. You can't speak to me that way. 488 00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:34,500 But he made a good point. Like, it is Lord Mutton's roof. 489 00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:38,900 But Randall Tarley is this brutal, strong man who just kind 490 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:42,420 of took over and the same. That's why Nina put this example 491 00:24:42,420 --> 00:24:45,420 last, because it's a similar, maybe a similar case where 492 00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:47,620 someone's making a statement like, yeah, I don't own this, 493 00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:51,520 but I'm kind of taking it. I'm kind of running this thing, 494 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,280 you know? I'm not the Lord, but I'm 495 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,720 effectively the Lord. And I think maybe that might be 496 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,800 what the Storm King was doing, was like, this isn't my 497 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,480 territory, but I'm the highest ranking guy here. 498 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,680 I'm gonna flex a bit, that kind of thing. 499 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,040 And Roderick Blackwood may have been happy to have him in there 500 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,180 because he may have had ambitions he may have, on top of 501 00:25:14,180 --> 00:25:16,460 being worried about what was going on in the River Lands, 502 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:19,340 which is the persecution of worship of the old gods. 503 00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:24,260 And a lot more could be said about this if we had a better 504 00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:26,180 timeline of when these marriages happen. 505 00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:28,540 We don't even know that this double marriage happened at the 506 00:25:28,540 --> 00:25:31,020 same time. The second marriage between 507 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:35,070 Durden and Blackwood may have come years later, may have been 508 00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:37,030 a double ceremony. It may have happened at the 509 00:25:37,030 --> 00:25:39,470 exact same time. That probably would have been 510 00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:41,910 mentioned if it was the case, but still, we're not really 511 00:25:41,910 --> 00:25:43,470 sure. The timeline throws us off a bit 512 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:51,270 here either way, The Durindans having a base in an ally in the 513 00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:53,070 River Lands. Let's pull up the maps. 514 00:25:53,070 --> 00:25:55,070 You can see what I'm talking about in terms of how they get 515 00:25:55,070 --> 00:26:00,150 boxed in here. Look at how the storm lands and 516 00:26:00,390 --> 00:26:03,230 where the location of House Blackwood which is in the West 517 00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:08,230 there of the river lands. They kind of box in the area of 518 00:26:09,390 --> 00:26:14,550 Maiden Pool, which is what we're told is the center of power for 519 00:26:14,550 --> 00:26:16,710 House Teague. So the King of Hills and Rivers 520 00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:18,550 had their power base in Maiden Pool. 521 00:26:18,550 --> 00:26:22,230 Just South of them is the Storm Lands, and just east of them, to 522 00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:24,390 the OR just West of them rather is House Blackwood. 523 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:27,830 So they've got them covered from South and West. 524 00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:31,470 Southwest is the God's Eye. There's nothing there, and 525 00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:34,190 there's no Heron Hall there yet. And N is the Vale, so there's 526 00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:36,630 nothing there for them either. That's like a hard barrier. 527 00:26:37,060 --> 00:26:39,940 So they're kind of trapped. They're kind of cornered in by 528 00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:44,980 this new alliance, which may have put things to a head, push 529 00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:49,300 things to go get worse. Now we've theorized that Baylor 530 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:51,780 the Blessed might have had designs on repressing worship of 531 00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:55,380 the old gods, and we wonder if he was murdered, if Baylor was 532 00:26:55,380 --> 00:26:57,380 murdered, if that was one of the reasons why. 533 00:26:57,380 --> 00:27:00,220 Because his actions were going to cause civil war. 534 00:27:01,380 --> 00:27:06,220 In this case, no one stopped Humphrey, and it did lead to 535 00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:09,740 civil war. Humphrey's repression of the Old 536 00:27:09,740 --> 00:27:11,700 Gods. It probably grew over time. 537 00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:15,140 There may have been some breaking point, some sort of 538 00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:16,820 straw that broke the camel's back. 539 00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:18,820 I don't know what that thing was. 540 00:27:18,940 --> 00:27:21,620 My favorite head cannon is the cutting down of a heart tree or 541 00:27:21,620 --> 00:27:24,020 two or three or something like that. 542 00:27:24,260 --> 00:27:28,700 Because it's not like there's some old God cept to despoil or 543 00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:32,790 a priest to murder right? So the only like holy symbols 544 00:27:32,790 --> 00:27:36,190 they have are the heart trees. Some kind of hard for me to 545 00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:39,990 picture how you persecute worship in the old gods except 546 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:42,790 cutting down heart trees like people just go worship in 547 00:27:42,790 --> 00:27:46,230 silence in the gods would what He has a big problem with this? 548 00:27:46,910 --> 00:27:49,870 Well he would cut off cut down the tree if he had a problem 549 00:27:49,870 --> 00:27:51,350 with that. It's hard for me to think of 550 00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:54,070 what else they would do besides like the more traditional 551 00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:55,590 rounding up worshippers and killing them. 552 00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:59,050 Which it doesn't sound like he did something like that. 553 00:27:59,050 --> 00:28:00,450 That's severe, but it's possible. 554 00:28:00,490 --> 00:28:02,850 There might have been some preferential treatment tonight. 555 00:28:02,970 --> 00:28:05,850 There might have been people who were, I don't know, honorable 556 00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:08,450 and trustworthy but didn't believe in the idea of 557 00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:10,650 knighthood. And other people who were maybe 558 00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:13,530 kind of crappy like, you know, Gregor, or maybe not even that 559 00:28:13,530 --> 00:28:14,930 extreme, but who got to be Knights. 560 00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:17,170 And then because of that they got certain benefits and other 561 00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:18,890 people didn't. I could see that being this sort 562 00:28:18,890 --> 00:28:20,650 of a I like that. They're nuanced way. 563 00:28:20,650 --> 00:28:23,570 They could still end up sliding a lot of people. 564 00:28:23,570 --> 00:28:25,490 Yeah because it's rooted in who you worship. 565 00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:28,210 Not your personnel, not your behavior. 566 00:28:28,210 --> 00:28:30,490 Not like calling you to account for what you've done. 567 00:28:30,490 --> 00:28:33,570 It's just what team you're on. And yeah so that would seem 568 00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:37,450 unfair not just to worshippers of the old gods but to a lot of 569 00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:40,610 just decent folk will be like no it's not your who you worship 570 00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:43,530 that makes you a good person. It's your actions. 571 00:28:43,530 --> 00:28:45,450 It's like Gregory Clagaine is a good guy like you said. 572 00:28:45,450 --> 00:28:49,250 That's a perfect example of of that dichotomy. 573 00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:51,530 So it could have been any number of things. 574 00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:54,250 The the word and used in the text is repressed though, which 575 00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:57,290 is a pretty strong word. So I don't think it's just, I 576 00:28:57,730 --> 00:29:00,410 don't think it's minor. So I like your example of of 577 00:29:00,570 --> 00:29:03,410 political favors to worshippers and leaving the old gods people 578 00:29:03,410 --> 00:29:08,610 kind of out in the cold. And what's interesting about 579 00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:12,010 this is it became a civil war but it wasn't like we're going 580 00:29:12,010 --> 00:29:14,530 to overthrow you, Teagues. It was we're going to force you 581 00:29:14,530 --> 00:29:16,770 to back down. We've seen cases like this. 582 00:29:17,610 --> 00:29:19,970 It's not what we normally think of when we think of civil war or 583 00:29:20,290 --> 00:29:22,450 someone rising against their king usually think oh they're 584 00:29:22,450 --> 00:29:23,810 going to overthrow them. That's the whole point. 585 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,400 But there's lots of examples in real history and in Westeros and 586 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,200 elsewhere where they rose up to curb the power of the king or 587 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,280 queen, not to overthrow them entirely. 588 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:40,440 For example, that's what the original plan for Aries was 589 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,440 within the Targaryen and the house and their allies, a lot of 590 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,240 them are like, we're just going to force Aries out. 591 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,320 We're not going to overthrow the Targaryens. 592 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,450 But then things, you know, went their own direction and and 593 00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:55,890 Robert and his allies, you know Aries pushed things too far and 594 00:29:55,890 --> 00:29:58,250 they couldn't Reg. Our replacing Aries no longer 595 00:29:58,250 --> 00:29:59,810 became possible and instead it was Robert. 596 00:29:59,810 --> 00:30:03,570 But and that's kind of where this went, very similar in that 597 00:30:03,570 --> 00:30:07,570 they initially were just trying to force this king to behave 598 00:30:07,570 --> 00:30:10,050 better, to treat their the old gods worshippers better. 599 00:30:10,290 --> 00:30:13,810 But at some point, it pivoted into a fullblown. 600 00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:17,270 Let's replace the Teagues with the Blackwoods. 601 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:20,190 But what we're pretty sure that didn't happen until the 602 00:30:20,190 --> 00:30:23,310 Blackwoods were almost beaten, which is very interesting, is 603 00:30:23,310 --> 00:30:27,390 why didn't they call in their Storm King allies early in the 604 00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:29,150 war, or even halfway through the war? 605 00:30:29,150 --> 00:30:31,870 They waited until they were losing badly, which is like, 606 00:30:31,870 --> 00:30:33,590 well, why? Why didn't they do it sooner? 607 00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:36,850 Well, for one thing, that really heavily implies that, yeah, they 608 00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:40,530 weren't just trying to overthrow King Teague here. 609 00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:43,010 If they had really wanted to overthrow him and install a new 610 00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:45,090 king, they would have just brought everyone at once. 611 00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:48,890 They wouldn't have just made it a fight within the Riverlands by 612 00:30:48,890 --> 00:30:51,050 making it a conflict within the Riverlands. 613 00:30:51,050 --> 00:30:54,210 Only they were keeping it a Riverlands issue, trying to keep 614 00:30:54,210 --> 00:30:57,090 it an internal thing. Hey, we're trying to get more 615 00:30:57,090 --> 00:30:59,250 rights. We're not trying to bring in an 616 00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:01,890 outside conqueror cause would you bring in an outside army? 617 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,520 Well, you risk the thing that happened happening, which is 618 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,360 they decide to stay. They bring you. 619 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,160 You let you invite someone to bring 20,030 thousand soldiers 620 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,200 into your domain. Well what happens if they don't 621 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,440 leave or if they don't want to leave? 622 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,640 Like you know what I think we like it here also. 623 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,880 It's it's as far as legitimacy. You earned your throne by 624 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,460 bringing in an outside power that's going to create long 625 00:31:27,460 --> 00:31:30,100 term, long standing grievances. And what would we what did we 626 00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:32,340 just learn about the Riverlands? It's a place of long standing 627 00:31:32,340 --> 00:31:34,780 grudges and people not supporting each other. 628 00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:37,020 If you don't do it right, you're going to find yourself toppled 629 00:31:37,020 --> 00:31:38,380 or. You might temporarily get rid of 630 00:31:38,380 --> 00:31:40,740 the teagues, but then you won't have respect after the fact. 631 00:31:40,740 --> 00:31:42,860 Yeah, someone else just be getting rid of you a generation 632 00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:44,500 later. You've just painted a target on 633 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:46,300 your head. So you they're very careful that 634 00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:48,820 they don't want to seize power if that power is going to 635 00:31:48,820 --> 00:31:50,820 destroy them. And and the Blackwoods, having 636 00:31:50,820 --> 00:31:54,100 lived in the Riverlands was a very long are savvy about this, 637 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:55,500 at least on some level, I think they're not. 638 00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:56,740 Yeah. We're not just going to blindly 639 00:31:56,740 --> 00:31:59,260 grasp as much power as possible and then try to hold on to it 640 00:31:59,260 --> 00:32:00,780 after the fact. They know better. 641 00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:02,140 They're not. They're they're too smart for 642 00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:04,660 that. Aside from all that, there's 643 00:32:04,660 --> 00:32:07,940 even a, I don't know, a list of other reasons I consider just 644 00:32:08,420 --> 00:32:10,980 basic pride. We'll just do this ourselves. 645 00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:14,780 Basic ignorance, not having knowledge of how big the enemy's 646 00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:16,700 forces, or even of your own forces. 647 00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:19,060 A lot of times that's a mistake that people make is just 648 00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:21,140 underestimating what they can accomplish. 649 00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:25,780 And then maybe even after realizing it just takes a minute 650 00:32:25,780 --> 00:32:29,580 to send an envoy to another land, have them come back. 651 00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:31,860 Any kind of negotiation that, you know, I can imagine, like 652 00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:35,700 weeks of back and forth trying to convince because just imagine 653 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,540 if someone says to you, hey, we need help, please come to war. 654 00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:41,900 Like, hold down, slow down. How many forces you have? 655 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:43,660 How many forces are you? What are we getting out of? 656 00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:47,140 And so you have to send a Raven to someone who's in the middle 657 00:32:47,140 --> 00:32:50,260 of war, and then they have to like just the logistics. 658 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,760 Of communicating. We need your help and then for 659 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,000 the help to come by the time all that happens, crap we've almost 660 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,840 lost. So now the person come and help 661 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,680 is really saving you and they expect to be rewarded for that. 662 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,200 So it's even it's even more dangerous. 663 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,200 The longer they waited, the more of a reward the Storm King was 664 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,760 going to expect for bringing his assistance in. 665 00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:12,390 And that's that's exactly what happened. 666 00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:15,430 So but backing up a little bit here, another thing that may 667 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:18,190 have been in the minds of some River Lords is this King Teague 668 00:33:18,190 --> 00:33:21,110 might actually be making the right moves to lock this down in 669 00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:22,830 a way that's never happened before. 670 00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:25,310 And that might be what he was. He's doing with all the 671 00:33:25,950 --> 00:33:28,110 religious stuff, with all the pushing of the seven and 672 00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:33,450 building chapels and new temples or what have you, because he got 673 00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:36,290 the Faith Militant on his side and he may have seen that as an 674 00:33:36,290 --> 00:33:38,450 as an angle. He's like the Faith Militant 675 00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:41,570 supporting what I do. I'm a religion, I'm an 8 of 10 676 00:33:41,570 --> 00:33:44,090 on religion and the Faith Militant like that. 677 00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:47,650 But if I'm an 11 of 10, they'll fully back me and they'll 678 00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:50,170 basically be half mine, be part of my army. 679 00:33:50,610 --> 00:33:52,610 It will be that tight and that might be what he did. 680 00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:53,810 He may have leaned into it even more. 681 00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:56,410 He might have been a very religious guy that took it to 682 00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:59,010 another level because he saw it would gain him power. 683 00:33:59,430 --> 00:34:02,590 It's like an extra way for his dynasty to get legitimacy. 684 00:34:02,590 --> 00:34:06,350 Like we're the, you know, big pushers of the seven and we're, 685 00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:09,389 you know, we're going to make that our centerpiece of our 686 00:34:09,389 --> 00:34:12,750 dynasty, and that's going to enable us to grow and and become 687 00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:15,469 more powerful. It's a little bit of a different 688 00:34:15,469 --> 00:34:18,150 context here, but that's what the gardeners did, right? 689 00:34:18,150 --> 00:34:22,670 Yes, you're right, they did it. Was a long time ago, but it's 690 00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:25,469 crazy idea for him to have. We've seen it work before, so 691 00:34:25,469 --> 00:34:27,889 you're totally right, Yeah. And it's kind of what a gun is 692 00:34:27,889 --> 00:34:29,050 out doing too, right? So. 693 00:34:30,050 --> 00:34:33,889 So the Blackwoods rose and it with them came King Humphrey. 694 00:34:34,290 --> 00:34:37,650 Or rather, against King Humphrey came the Tullys and the vances 695 00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:40,130 of a Tranta. But not the vances of Wayfarers. 696 00:34:40,130 --> 00:34:42,929 Rest, because of course there's two house vances now. 697 00:34:42,929 --> 00:34:46,969 You wonder what it was for them, because they're not all God's 698 00:34:46,969 --> 00:34:48,370 worshippers. They may have just been more. 699 00:34:48,370 --> 00:34:51,050 They saw House T getting too powerful. 700 00:34:51,050 --> 00:34:53,840 Or they saw the the the way things were headed. 701 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:56,400 And it wasn't good. A lot of reasons why they might 702 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,600 join. It might just be like we were 703 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,040 talking about the the the basis of honor or politics. 704 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,560 Them getting shut out of things. But either way, because one way 705 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,120 to look at this is it's a violation of the feudal 706 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,520 contract. I'm your. 707 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,400 I'm your vassal. You're my Lord. 708 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,400 You're supposed to protect me. You're supposed to protect keep 709 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,080 me safe. Right? 710 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,960 That's the basic trade off, right? 711 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,440 I give you taxes, I give you food. 712 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,520 I send you soldiers for your wars. 713 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,480 You keep me safe. You protect my honor. 714 00:35:21,790 --> 00:35:25,310 How is repressing my religion? How does that fit into that? 715 00:35:25,310 --> 00:35:26,790 It doesn't. It's a violation of that. 716 00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:28,310 It clear. It's a clear violation of the 717 00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:29,990 feudal contract. If you're repressing my 718 00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:31,670 religion, you're definitely not protecting me. 719 00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:33,590 You're telling other people my religion is bad and they're 720 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:37,510 coming after me because you've validated persecution within 721 00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:40,030 your realm. You've said that it's okay to 722 00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:41,950 treat these people badly. I mean, this is something that 723 00:35:41,950 --> 00:35:45,710 happens in the real world. You don't have to make a law 724 00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:49,150 against a religion to get people fired up about attacking 725 00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:51,250 worshippers of that religion, right? 726 00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:54,010 You could just have to denigrate it or say it's bad or say, oh, 727 00:35:54,010 --> 00:35:55,930 they're evil, like they're not worshipping with the good 728 00:35:55,930 --> 00:35:58,290 religion. So this is something that plays 729 00:35:58,290 --> 00:36:01,930 out all throughout real history and fantasy history, and it's 730 00:36:01,930 --> 00:36:03,970 pretty easy to see when you frame it that way, I think. 731 00:36:04,690 --> 00:36:08,490 So that might might be another reason why the the Tullys or the 732 00:36:08,490 --> 00:36:11,250 vances of the Tranta Rose are like, well, this, this Liege 733 00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:13,090 Lord is violating the feudal contract. 734 00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:15,090 It's our duty to stand against that. 735 00:36:16,570 --> 00:36:20,620 I mean, it could be some combination of the above, of 736 00:36:20,620 --> 00:36:23,340 course. And the Vances and the Tullys 737 00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:25,940 might have said Okay, we'll support you, but not if you 738 00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:29,380 bring in the Storm King. You know, we can't have that. 739 00:36:29,980 --> 00:36:36,060 But things got desperate and well, yeah, Roderick may have 740 00:36:36,060 --> 00:36:38,740 been banking on people disliking the Teagues more than they 741 00:36:38,740 --> 00:36:43,060 actually did. He may have expected more allies 742 00:36:43,060 --> 00:36:45,420 based on the way the Teagues were treating their vassals. 743 00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:50,660 But this didn't happen. #2 maybe. 744 00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:54,820 Well, #2 is what we had already said about the optics of calling 745 00:36:54,820 --> 00:36:59,580 in the Storm King, let alone the the danger of what happens if he 746 00:36:59,580 --> 00:37:04,140 stays. So the Blackwoods didn't want to 747 00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:07,300 lose that. You know that the optics and and 748 00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:09,420 look like the good guys. They wanted to keep themselves 749 00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:11,420 looking like the victims. But once they call them the 750 00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:13,100 Storm King, that changed. But they didn't have a choice. 751 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:16,300 They were losing badly. Raventry Hall was besieged. 752 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,120 So they were they were they were screwed. 753 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,280 They lost all the major battles, maybe because the Faith Militant 754 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,320 was enough to turn the tide, but also just sounds like more of 755 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,560 the Riverland supported House Teague. 756 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,560 Because of course the Brackens supported House Teague against 757 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,800 the Blackwoods. That's the most straightforward 758 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,120 guest one could make here. And since the vances of a Tranta 759 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,360 were on one side and not the Vances of Wayfarers Rest, yes, 760 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,800 indeed, the Vances of Wayfarers Rest did take the side of the 761 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,040 Teagues. The dairies and small woods as 762 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,940 well did so, and probably some others, but they're not 763 00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:50,620 mentioned. Maybe both sides hope for more 764 00:37:50,620 --> 00:37:52,900 defections. Maybe a lot of the river Lords 765 00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:55,780 houses just sat out. We can suspect there's several 766 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:59,020 river Lords houses that had grudges against both sides and 767 00:37:59,020 --> 00:38:02,540 we're like, I'm not fighting for either of them unless they beg. 768 00:38:02,540 --> 00:38:06,220 And of course, no one begged, so probably not. 769 00:38:06,220 --> 00:38:13,200 Anyway, so he maybe Roderick underestimated some things. 770 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,640 Maybe he overestimated other things. 771 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,680 Either way, he found himself in a position where he had no 772 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,880 choice but to call in the Storm King and. 773 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,800 Or did he have no choice? This isn't kind of an 774 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,320 interesting thing. Like he may could have just had 775 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,120 bent the knee and said all right, we lost. 776 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,560 I'll accept this punishment. And this is one of those things 777 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:33,280 where it gets kind of real, where someone something is 778 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,120 turned evil, something is turned corrupt, but it's so powerful 779 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:38,200 that people don't want to give up on it. 780 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,480 They want to keep it, they want to keep using it. 781 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,210 And this, this thing that's causing harm to society, to 782 00:38:43,210 --> 00:38:49,050 culture, to a Kingdom, continues because the people are been at 783 00:38:49,050 --> 00:38:51,330 the people who own it are benefiting too much from it to 784 00:38:51,330 --> 00:38:56,370 give it up, even though it's causing such great harm now that 785 00:38:56,370 --> 00:38:57,490 is. So that's what the Blackwoods 786 00:38:57,490 --> 00:38:59,250 did. They decided rather than face 787 00:38:59,290 --> 00:39:02,970 the music, rather than face this zealous king that might take 788 00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:06,170 full opportunity to punish them more thoroughly than they might 789 00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:09,210 otherwise deserve because of the religious differences. 790 00:39:09,570 --> 00:39:11,650 They called in the Storm King. He came quickly. 791 00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:15,170 He may have already been ready. We're told he gathered his army 792 00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:17,170 quickly and showed up. The timeline doesn't really 793 00:39:17,170 --> 00:39:20,170 support the way things go. It's described like did they 794 00:39:20,170 --> 00:39:22,610 really wait till they were besieged to then ask for help? 795 00:39:22,930 --> 00:39:25,930 Then he called his banners. Then he marched all the way 796 00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:28,250 there and they were still besieged. 797 00:39:28,690 --> 00:39:32,050 I'm thinking there's a little bit of looseness here. 798 00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:34,010 Intentional looseness by the sources because they wouldn't 799 00:39:34,010 --> 00:39:36,730 have the precise details probably. 800 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,880 That adds to my thought earlier that they've been trying for a 801 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,520 minute and the details just weren't hammered out yet, yeah. 802 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,840 That's why it seems like it all happened so suddenly because 803 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,280 really have been planned out for weeks. 804 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,000 Yeah good point. And if we think again of of like 805 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,440 Tywin we think again of Robert Trebellion which is such a great 806 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,160 model for some of the things that are happening here 807 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,720 including the reasons people go to war. 808 00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:01,120 I mean, look at why look areas violated the view of contract 809 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,870 he. Executed some Lords for very 810 00:40:03,870 --> 00:40:07,870 little, and then demanded more. Dead Lords, children Lords for 811 00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:10,030 just for the crime of being related to them. 812 00:40:10,030 --> 00:40:12,270 And John Aaron's like, well, that's evil. 813 00:40:12,670 --> 00:40:15,990 I'm rising up against that. Plenty of people still supported 814 00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:19,950 Aries even though he was clearly doing violating the rules for a 815 00:40:19,950 --> 00:40:21,750 king, like breaking the contract. 816 00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:25,110 So obviously people will still support the king even when he's 817 00:40:25,110 --> 00:40:29,350 a mad, murderous, you know, evil guy breaking his own rules. 818 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:33,740 So maybe Black expected more people would be upset about 819 00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:34,540 that. But no. 820 00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:37,020 If they haven't done it to you, right. 821 00:40:37,020 --> 00:40:39,340 It's a little ease like, well, that's what those Northmen get 822 00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:42,060 or whatever. And and also it's not like the 823 00:40:42,060 --> 00:40:44,500 King doesn't have an army. It's not like that's not, yeah, 824 00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:46,020 it's not an easy decision to go to war. 825 00:40:46,060 --> 00:40:47,340 No. Even when it's quote UN quote 826 00:40:47,340 --> 00:40:48,980 correct, there's still a lot of risks. 827 00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:51,220 There's still, well, it comes up a lot in modern times. 828 00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:53,460 Like people are like, well, you expect people who work for a 829 00:40:53,460 --> 00:40:55,580 company that's doing wrong things to stand up to that 830 00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:57,530 company. Well, it's it's it's almost 831 00:40:57,530 --> 00:40:59,490 harder for people who work within the company to stand up 832 00:40:59,490 --> 00:41:00,810 to that company because they get fired. 833 00:41:00,810 --> 00:41:04,810 Like for me, a consumer of the product, it's very easy for me 834 00:41:04,810 --> 00:41:07,570 to complain and be like I'm never buying your product again. 835 00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:10,530 But for someone who works like I'm never working here again, 836 00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:13,370 like giving up your job, that's that's rough, like that's that's 837 00:41:13,370 --> 00:41:14,650 simple. And this is even bigger because 838 00:41:14,650 --> 00:41:17,050 you're giving up your life potentially to to take it to. 839 00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:18,770 To do the right someone else's life. 840 00:41:18,850 --> 00:41:20,810 Yeah, because even the idea, like maybe you should be want to 841 00:41:20,810 --> 00:41:22,650 give up your job rather than work for a crappy company. 842 00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:26,290 But are you also going to like your wife and your kids? 843 00:41:26,290 --> 00:41:28,970 Or your it's not just you. Suddenly you can't feed your 844 00:41:28,970 --> 00:41:31,810 family anymore. And that's just in modern times 845 00:41:31,810 --> 00:41:33,810 when there's wealth and safety Nets back. 846 00:41:33,810 --> 00:41:36,170 Then you says like you're going to war, like you're going to 847 00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:37,650 send a whole village to be slaughtered. 848 00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:40,730 Like every able bodied man in a village is going to go to be 849 00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:42,170 slaughtered. That's what's happens when you 850 00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:43,970 go to war. And the only one with the safety 851 00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:46,010 net is the one saying, yes, let's go to war because the 852 00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:50,990 Lords can often expect to to bend the knee and give away 853 00:41:50,990 --> 00:41:52,910 their child as a hostage rather than themselves. 854 00:41:52,910 --> 00:41:55,270 So they they're the ones that have the least to lose in some 855 00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:56,830 ways. Because yes, maybe they can lose 856 00:41:56,830 --> 00:41:59,190 a ton of power they have, they can lose power that that no one 857 00:41:59,470 --> 00:42:01,630 that's following them, even it has in the 1st place. 858 00:42:02,190 --> 00:42:04,550 But they're like they're not risking their life in the same 859 00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:06,630 sense, although they are, they're going to battle. 860 00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:10,670 So they are risking it in some ways, but less risk, we'll say. 861 00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:15,260 They're going into battle with swords and armor and horses at 862 00:42:15,260 --> 00:42:17,900 the and a personal guard. Yeah, like to survive by. 863 00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:21,260 Hand, the random farmers of their land are being sent to the 864 00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:24,500 front lines with maybe a spear. Yeah, no armor. 865 00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:28,540 Like, yeah, hardly anything. So it's a much different game 866 00:42:28,540 --> 00:42:30,100 and it's a much tougher decision. 867 00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:31,620 But some of these Lords would be thinking about that. 868 00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:33,500 A lot of them would be callous and like, Nope, these peasants 869 00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:36,060 are my property. They do what I say, but some of 870 00:42:36,060 --> 00:42:37,780 them would be like, no, I'm not going to put these people at 871 00:42:37,780 --> 00:42:41,660 risk just because these two Lords are arguing about which 872 00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:44,180 gods are real and when. I'm fine to worship them both, 873 00:42:44,220 --> 00:42:46,700 you know, So there'd be a lot of different opinions here and a 874 00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:48,940 lot of just people being pulled in a direction they don't 875 00:42:48,940 --> 00:42:53,100 necessarily want to be pulled in because of greater risk if they 876 00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:55,460 don't act. There's a little bit of shades 877 00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:58,260 of A Dance with Dragons here where Raven tree halls under 878 00:42:58,260 --> 00:43:01,820 siege and then Jamie comes and you know, fixes that quote UN 879 00:43:01,820 --> 00:43:05,220 quote fixes it, whereas here it wasn't resolved so easily. 880 00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:07,060 They had took more war to solve it. 881 00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:11,630 So I'm going to guess like what you said Sean the Storm King had 882 00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:13,990 some conditions. He's like I'm just going to come 883 00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:18,910 over here and help my fatherinlaw because you know I'm 884 00:43:18,910 --> 00:43:23,910 getting something out of this. And that said, it doesn't seem 885 00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:29,270 that his initial plan was watch this y'all I'm going to go in be 886 00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:31,270 the hero and then I'm going to take it all for myself. 887 00:43:31,630 --> 00:43:33,990 That is what happened. But I don't think that's why he 888 00:43:34,350 --> 00:43:38,660 how he planned on it. For one thing, anyone, not just 889 00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:42,700 a River Lord knows what a chaotic mess the Riverlands is 890 00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:44,220 like. Do you really want to rule that? 891 00:43:44,220 --> 00:43:46,620 Well, maybe you want to, but can you? 892 00:43:48,060 --> 00:43:49,740 I don't know. It's pretty hard. 893 00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:53,540 Look at how hard the internal, the Riverlands Born Kings have 894 00:43:53,540 --> 00:43:56,820 had holding it all together. What makes me think a Storm King 895 00:43:56,860 --> 00:43:58,940 who lives all the way over here? What makes me think I can keep 896 00:43:58,940 --> 00:44:00,180 it all together? Maybe pride. 897 00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:02,060 Maybe arrogance. Sure, there's there are reasons. 898 00:44:02,060 --> 00:44:05,060 But you can also see why I wouldn't just be like, yeah, I'm 899 00:44:05,060 --> 00:44:06,380 going to take all that for myself. 900 00:44:07,380 --> 00:44:09,580 There's reasons no one else had done that before, and there's 901 00:44:09,580 --> 00:44:11,580 reasons it hadn't been held. Yeah, it's hard. 902 00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:12,780 It's difficult. It's a challenge. 903 00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:19,460 It might backfire horribly. So we're going to guess that he 904 00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:23,060 asked for some things. Maybe. 905 00:44:23,260 --> 00:44:25,220 Maybe that second marriage was part of it. 906 00:44:25,780 --> 00:44:30,820 Maybe it hadn't happened yet. Maybe he expected money or other 907 00:44:30,820 --> 00:44:32,380 political favors. We're not sure. 908 00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:35,960 But whatever it was, it changed because it whatever he asked for 909 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,880 he got more and by the end because he didn't initially ask 910 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,400 for the the river land, we know they would they definitely would 911 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,000 have told him no if he had asked for that originally and. 912 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,840 And to be clear, we'll go into it. 913 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,520 But he didn't leap right to that either. 914 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,040 He went through several different sort of like options, 915 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,640 if you exactly. The last resort was fine. 916 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,280 I'll just do it myself, yeah. And and like same thing with 917 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,090 Robert and Ned and John Air. And they was they rose up 918 00:45:00,090 --> 00:45:02,650 against the tyranny of Aries. They didn't rise up to make 919 00:45:02,650 --> 00:45:04,770 Robert King. That wasn't the initial play 920 00:45:04,770 --> 00:45:07,810 that came later. They were like, well we're this 921 00:45:07,810 --> 00:45:11,930 is not quickly resolved we're this is going on too far now. 922 00:45:11,930 --> 00:45:14,610 It's several battles have been fought now it's a fullblown 923 00:45:14,610 --> 00:45:16,250 rebellion. At first it didn't start that 924 00:45:16,250 --> 00:45:17,890 way. So that's what we're saying. 925 00:45:17,890 --> 00:45:21,410 Like things can when you start wars, they can go in directions 926 00:45:21,410 --> 00:45:24,590 that you had no idea. You know Storm King starting a 927 00:45:24,590 --> 00:45:27,070 war with the Riverlands could end up in him losing his own 928 00:45:27,070 --> 00:45:29,030 life and he's trying to double the size of his Kingdom. 929 00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:32,710 He may end up ending his life instead or or screwing up his 930 00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:34,830 own dynasty. So it's a very tough decision. 931 00:45:34,830 --> 00:45:39,550 That's something you do lightly. And so whether we've sussed out 932 00:45:39,550 --> 00:45:41,950 his motivations properly or framed it properly, the Storm 933 00:45:41,950 --> 00:45:44,070 King called his banners marched into the Riverlands with a very 934 00:45:44,070 --> 00:45:47,590 large army for he won several battles before getting to 935 00:45:47,590 --> 00:45:49,270 Raventry. So there were other they were 936 00:45:49,350 --> 00:45:53,510 armies met him along the way. Or perhaps he freed other 937 00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:56,350 castles, like maybe the vances of a Tranta had lost their seat 938 00:45:56,350 --> 00:45:57,670 during the war and he restored it to them. 939 00:45:57,670 --> 00:46:00,070 Or maybe they were also under siege, something like that. 940 00:46:00,070 --> 00:46:02,510 Maybe the Tulleys were also under siege, although he he 941 00:46:02,510 --> 00:46:05,510 wouldn't have gone to River Run before Raventry Hall, because 942 00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:08,870 that would have it's farther W That would be really weird. 943 00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:11,270 But either way, there were battles before he got to 944 00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:13,910 Raventry, which implies that there was still stuff happening 945 00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:15,390 elsewhere. The war was raging in other 946 00:46:15,390 --> 00:46:18,040 places. Maybe. 947 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,000 See, if I'm Roderick, I send I I send my Faith Militant Army 948 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,120 against the Storm King first, because maybe he doesn't want to 949 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,760 fight them. Maybe the Storm Landers aren't 950 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,280 excited about fighting against the the Warriors of God. 951 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,080 You know, for lack of the that's probably not what they called 952 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,080 them. But it's that same idea of like 953 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,240 do we do we 7 worshippers want to fight against these guys 954 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:40,920 who've devoted themselves to the seven? 955 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,120 That might not that might not sit well with them. 956 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,680 That might make them uneasy. Maybe not, though. 957 00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:47,610 But I like the idea. It could. 958 00:46:47,610 --> 00:46:50,010 It could be a strategy, even if it wasn't used here. 959 00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:55,850 So where it all culminated, there's a we don't know a whole 960 00:46:55,850 --> 00:46:57,850 lot about those early skirmishes or battles. 961 00:46:57,850 --> 00:47:00,730 Whatever they were, we do know where it all came together. 962 00:47:02,330 --> 00:47:04,850 King Humphrey had to be aware of the Storm King's approach, at 963 00:47:04,850 --> 00:47:07,770 least because of those other battles, if not before that. 964 00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:10,730 It's a rather large army, and you know it's hard to keep that 965 00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:15,550 a secret. The final battle was fought near 966 00:47:15,550 --> 00:47:18,870 Raventry Hall, not at it. So maybe the siege had been 967 00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:23,870 broken, or really what I I figure what happens was the 968 00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:28,030 Stormland's army approaches the the river Landers under the 969 00:47:28,350 --> 00:47:30,710 Under the Teagues Hear about this or see see it. 970 00:47:31,110 --> 00:47:35,550 They form up to face them, and the Blackwoods emerge from 971 00:47:35,550 --> 00:47:38,390 Raventry Hall to try to catch them in between. 972 00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:42,600 Now the battle actually took place at the Teats, Barbas Teats 973 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,480 or the Mother's Teats. It's had a lot of different 974 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,160 names, the same one that have been owned by the both Brackens 975 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,400 and the Blackwoods. That's right. 976 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,040 Okay, Missy's teats, Barbas teats. 977 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,600 Missy's teats, Barbas teats. Anyway, the battle wasn't on the 978 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,640 teats, it was in between them. So the cleavage. 979 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,000 The battle was fought in the cleavage. 980 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:07,980 Was that that were me. So fought with a lot of axes. 981 00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:11,060 A lot of axes. Yes, there was cleaving all over 982 00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:13,620 the place. And rather than describe the 983 00:48:13,620 --> 00:48:16,780 battle, let's hear the account from the quote. 984 00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,460 King Humphrey was the first to die that day, it is written. 985 00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:25,940 His heir, Prince Humphrey, took up his crown and sword, but died 986 00:48:25,940 --> 00:48:30,380 a short time later, whereupon the second son, Hollis did the 987 00:48:30,380 --> 00:48:32,920 same. Only to be killed and turned. 988 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,400 And so it went, the bloody crown of the last River King, passing 989 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:42,040 from sun to sun, and finally to King Humphrey's brother, all 990 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,440 within the space of a single afternoon. 991 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,200 By the time the sun went down, House Teague had been entirely 992 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,040 extinguished, along with the Kingdom of rivers and hills. 993 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,320 The fight in which they died has hereafter been known as the 994 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,810 Battle of 6 Kings. In honor of Arlen the Third, the 995 00:49:01,810 --> 00:49:06,810 Storm King, and the Five River Kings his Storm Landers slew, 996 00:49:07,170 --> 00:49:10,890 some of whom reigned for minutes, not even hours. 997 00:49:11,290 --> 00:49:16,050 A little bit of Damon Black Fire and his sons in this moment 998 00:49:16,050 --> 00:49:19,610 here, a little bit of the War of 5 Kings, given it's the Battle 999 00:49:19,610 --> 00:49:23,050 of 6 Kings. And yeah, it sounds like quite a 1000 00:49:23,050 --> 00:49:25,330 battle. Incredibly bloody and stubborn. 1001 00:49:25,330 --> 00:49:27,490 The Teagues knew their place at the top was at stake. 1002 00:49:27,950 --> 00:49:30,030 The Faith fought for their beliefs and the Blackwoods 1003 00:49:30,030 --> 00:49:32,030 fought for theirs. Or at least many would have. 1004 00:49:32,310 --> 00:49:36,230 Others fought for power. The Storm Landers fought for 1005 00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:41,310 their king. It's because of so many people 1006 00:49:41,310 --> 00:49:42,390 died. It's one of these things that 1007 00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:45,150 you don't normally see normally, like one side gives up and saves 1008 00:49:45,150 --> 00:49:48,870 their lives. But this was just unbelievably 1009 00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:50,430 bloody. So many people dying. 1010 00:49:51,110 --> 00:49:54,770 Lord Blackwood was killed too. We're not sure when as compared 1011 00:49:54,770 --> 00:49:57,570 to these teagues, like maybe it was before, during, after. 1012 00:49:57,570 --> 00:49:59,650 We're not really sure. All told, apart from the 1013 00:49:59,650 --> 00:50:02,290 complete end of the Royal Teagues, both Lords Vance as 1014 00:50:02,290 --> 00:50:05,090 well were killed. So Lord Vance of A Tranta and 1015 00:50:05,090 --> 00:50:07,610 Lord Vance of Wayfarers arrest and Lord Bracken. 1016 00:50:07,610 --> 00:50:11,170 Not to mention Lord Blackwood and Lord Smallwood and Lord 1017 00:50:11,170 --> 00:50:15,330 Tully like, wow, that's great. That's another reason it reminds 1018 00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:18,330 me of the War of 5 Kings, because this is a lot of kings 1019 00:50:18,330 --> 00:50:21,250 to die in one battle, let alone one full campaign. 1020 00:50:21,610 --> 00:50:27,010 So because it was so bloody that that's the the good side to it 1021 00:50:27,010 --> 00:50:28,730 being so bloody was that ended the fighting. 1022 00:50:28,730 --> 00:50:30,690 That was it. Like there was no no more will 1023 00:50:30,690 --> 00:50:34,210 to fight after that no army of of teagues. 1024 00:50:34,210 --> 00:50:36,930 All the teagues were dead. So I guess that's the positive. 1025 00:50:37,850 --> 00:50:40,970 But the death of Lord Roderick really threw a monkey wrench 1026 00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:43,930 into everything. The the Storm King was like, 1027 00:50:43,930 --> 00:50:47,040 okay. We don't know what other favors 1028 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,960 he demanded, but it's at this time when he entered the war 1029 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,280 that the talk of making Lord Blackwood King began. 1030 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,640 Because of course, it hadn't begun when he was, oh, I'm a 1031 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,960 persecuted guy. That's, you know, fight with me, 1032 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,000 the Persecuted Man, not fight to make me king. 1033 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,400 Like, they wouldn't care about that as much. 1034 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,880 That's not what they rose for. So it pivoted to that. 1035 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,440 And it may be because of the Storm King's pushing, because he 1036 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:13,000 wanted to be married to a king rather than a Lord, and he 1037 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,360 wanted his son married to the son of a king and all that 1038 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:17,680 stuff. It's a great way to raise his 1039 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,960 own prestige, and he may have had these designs on his 1040 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,600 descendants, forming some new Kingdom or something like that. 1041 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,600 But of course he had to pivot when Lord Roderick was killed. 1042 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,800 Now you might say, well, why didn't he just why not just make 1043 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,680 Lord Blackwood's son the king, or something like that? 1044 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,240 Why not make him a puppet ruler? Well, let's talk about why 1045 00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:39,140 earlier we mentioned the marriage of Shierra Blackwood to 1046 00:51:39,140 --> 00:51:41,980 King Arlen's son, and it's possible that didn't happen 1047 00:51:41,980 --> 00:51:44,780 until this aftermath rather than the double marriage idea we 1048 00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:47,860 floated. Now in other words, he could 1049 00:51:47,860 --> 00:51:50,460 have married her to his son after father's death like we 1050 00:51:50,460 --> 00:51:52,620 said, like that second marriage could have been like, okay, this 1051 00:51:52,620 --> 00:51:53,740 is the way for me to lock down power. 1052 00:51:53,740 --> 00:51:55,580 Roderick is dead. I'm going to marry this son to 1053 00:51:55,580 --> 00:52:00,700 my to make another marriage to tie myself to this family even 1054 00:52:00,700 --> 00:52:01,980 more and have even more power over them. 1055 00:52:03,620 --> 00:52:07,460 I want to real quick. Put a slightly less cynical spin 1056 00:52:07,460 --> 00:52:09,260 on It might not have wanted more power. 1057 00:52:09,260 --> 00:52:10,460 It might have wanted more stability. 1058 00:52:10,540 --> 00:52:12,380 He might have just been happy being a Storm King. 1059 00:52:12,380 --> 00:52:14,300 He didn't have some longterm design to take over the 1060 00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:17,460 Riverlands, but he just knows it's better if we have peace 1061 00:52:17,860 --> 00:52:19,220 getting our families tied together. 1062 00:52:19,340 --> 00:52:21,180 Work to that end, yeah. I mean there it's. 1063 00:52:21,180 --> 00:52:24,060 Got to be at least a potential motivating factor. 1064 00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:26,460 That's a great point because they're neighbors and they trade 1065 00:52:26,460 --> 00:52:27,940 with each other. So you would want them like you 1066 00:52:27,940 --> 00:52:30,580 hey settle your business so we can go back to me shipping you 1067 00:52:30,620 --> 00:52:34,590 iron for your grain or whatever you know like my people need 1068 00:52:34,590 --> 00:52:36,950 that food and and we want to sell that iron for money 1069 00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:38,630 etcetera. The Storm lands is really good 1070 00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:42,430 at forging weapons, you know and if it's Smith's there and they 1071 00:52:42,430 --> 00:52:45,270 have ports there and. Yeah, river Landers are a 1072 00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:48,350 barrier to the Ironman, yes, if you're warm with each other, 1073 00:52:48,350 --> 00:52:51,630 you're not going to stop them. You're a cross path to the north 1074 00:52:51,630 --> 00:52:53,230 and the West. And like, there's all kinds of 1075 00:52:53,230 --> 00:52:56,150 reasons for people outside the river lands to want the river 1076 00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:58,350 lands to be stable and at peace and secure. 1077 00:52:58,350 --> 00:53:02,380 So yeah, and one thing we'll see as well is when much later if we 1078 00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:06,780 jump back to Aegon's conquest for just a minute when our Galac 1079 00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:10,820 summons his forces to face Oris and Rainey's in battle within 1080 00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:13,740 the Storm Lands. Pirates and Dornish Raiders take 1081 00:53:13,740 --> 00:53:16,500 advantage of the fact that the Storm Landers have concentrated 1082 00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:19,020 their armies up in another area within the realm. 1083 00:53:19,020 --> 00:53:21,580 So they they start picking off at the borders and and attacking 1084 00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:26,500 the the the areas that are become unprotected. 1085 00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:29,910 So, so that's a risk. So that's something else a Storm 1086 00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:32,270 King would be like well hey I'm taking a risk coming here I 1087 00:53:32,270 --> 00:53:37,910 expect to benefit from all this. So Shiera was floated. 1088 00:53:38,270 --> 00:53:41,030 The idea was presented to the River Lords as queen of the 1089 00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:44,670 river lands and King Arlen supported the idea because his 1090 00:53:44,670 --> 00:53:47,710 son was her husband. That would be great for him and 1091 00:53:47,710 --> 00:53:50,550 so he his son would be King Consort and then eventually his 1092 00:53:50,550 --> 00:53:53,110 son might would be king of the River land or king of the storm 1093 00:53:53,110 --> 00:53:54,350 land. So he would be King Consort the 1094 00:53:54,350 --> 00:53:57,860 River lands and king of the Storm lands without any more 1095 00:53:57,860 --> 00:54:00,860 fighting having to occur, right? They were just boom, it's done. 1096 00:54:01,420 --> 00:54:04,660 But the River Lords were like, Nah, we don't want to, we don't 1097 00:54:04,660 --> 00:54:07,140 want to Queen. This was very stupid on their 1098 00:54:07,140 --> 00:54:10,300 part because they didn't consider by pushing away these 1099 00:54:10,420 --> 00:54:14,220 viable options, what they'd end up getting what they probably. 1100 00:54:14,220 --> 00:54:16,500 It was stupid for other reasons to be It was awesome to get for 1101 00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:18,500 other reasons. But the the sexism here is 1102 00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:21,860 really going to bite them in the butt because it's a it's another 1103 00:54:21,860 --> 00:54:24,420 case of rejecting a woman for a worse alternative that they 1104 00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:26,620 should have seen coming. Now. 1105 00:54:26,620 --> 00:54:29,180 It's not just that it's not just sexism. 1106 00:54:29,180 --> 00:54:30,820 It's not the only thing even Nina points out. 1107 00:54:30,820 --> 00:54:33,220 It's not. She calls it a simple Westerosi 1108 00:54:33,220 --> 00:54:36,060 or aristocratic misogyny certainly played a major part 1109 00:54:36,060 --> 00:54:38,020 here. It's not the only thing because 1110 00:54:38,220 --> 00:54:40,460 you're not only handing a crown to a woman, you're handing a 1111 00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:42,460 crown to a woman who's married to the storm king. 1112 00:54:42,820 --> 00:54:45,300 Who are the future Storm king? That's the political instability 1113 00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:48,740 or political reality they may not want to see come to the 1114 00:54:48,740 --> 00:54:49,860 floor. They may not want that 1115 00:54:49,860 --> 00:54:51,780 connection. They may not want the they. 1116 00:54:51,780 --> 00:54:54,740 Maybe it may have been Okay with a queen, but not a queen who's 1117 00:54:54,740 --> 00:54:57,190 got such ties to the Storm Lands. 1118 00:54:57,310 --> 00:54:59,350 But they may not have wanted a queen who was like a worshipper 1119 00:54:59,350 --> 00:55:02,910 of the Old Gods either. That's probably not it, because 1120 00:55:02,910 --> 00:55:05,950 they seem to be Okay with the idea of Roderick and he was a 1121 00:55:05,950 --> 00:55:08,110 man worshiping the Old Gods, so probably wasn't that. 1122 00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:15,070 But still, Rob didn't want to leave his throne to Sansa, not 1123 00:55:15,070 --> 00:55:17,590 because she's a girl, but because she was married to 1124 00:55:17,590 --> 00:55:19,470 Tyrion, right? He's like, well, we're just 1125 00:55:19,470 --> 00:55:20,630 handing it over to the Lannister. 1126 00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:24,850 So now Sansa was fully in the clutches of the Lannisters at 1127 00:55:24,850 --> 00:55:27,450 this point, where Shiera is not, but they could be worried about, 1128 00:55:27,810 --> 00:55:30,250 like the Storm King takes her back to the Storm lands and 1129 00:55:30,250 --> 00:55:33,290 keeps her there, you know, what are we gonna do about that? 1130 00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:36,890 So it still could happen, even though it wasn't happening at 1131 00:55:36,890 --> 00:55:40,830 that point. So, and if you think about 1132 00:55:41,350 --> 00:55:43,630 continuing on the line of Winterfell, like, there's still 1133 00:55:43,630 --> 00:55:45,750 gonna be factionalism here, like who's gonna end up with 1134 00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:47,590 Winterfell? Is it gonna be Rickon, Bran, 1135 00:55:47,590 --> 00:55:50,510 Sansa, Even Aria has a claim, sort of right. 1136 00:55:50,510 --> 00:55:52,990 So there's like, and if different factions get behind 1137 00:55:52,990 --> 00:55:55,830 them, it becomes almost as much about what those factions want 1138 00:55:55,830 --> 00:55:58,750 than about what those individuals sort of ostensibly 1139 00:55:58,750 --> 00:56:00,430 leading those factions, what they want. 1140 00:56:01,950 --> 00:56:07,570 So the reason they rejected Lord Blackwood's son over Shiera is 1141 00:56:07,570 --> 00:56:09,930 because he was only eight. Too young to be a king, 1142 00:56:09,930 --> 00:56:11,370 certainly. Now that that makes a lot of 1143 00:56:11,370 --> 00:56:17,690 ageism. Ageism is better than sexism, so 1144 00:56:17,690 --> 00:56:20,650 I think so. What I think the River Lords 1145 00:56:20,650 --> 00:56:23,490 were angling for was one of Lord Blackwood's brothers. 1146 00:56:23,490 --> 00:56:26,650 Or maybe they just couldn't see that far ahead and they were 1147 00:56:26,650 --> 00:56:29,730 just saying no to things they didn't like without thinking of 1148 00:56:29,890 --> 00:56:32,880 what that would leave them with. Because with all these options 1149 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,480 being taken off the board. OK, no, we don't want we can't 1150 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,200 have an 8 year old. We don't want a woman and 1151 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,680 especially not one married to the Storm King if that was the 1152 00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,200 reason that we're really backfired. 1153 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,640 If it's the connection to the Storm King so. 1154 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,680 But the Storm King's like, no, I don't trust Lord Blackwood's 1155 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,960 brothers. This may be where the politics 1156 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,520 gets he may have that may have been an excuse. 1157 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,160 We don't know if Lord Blackwood's brothers are 1158 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:55,920 trustworthy or not. We have no idea who these guys 1159 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:56,960 are. This is the first mention of 1160 00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:58,160 them. We didn't know he had brothers 1161 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,840 until this this comes up. They weren't described in the 1162 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,390 war at all, so we have no basis to determining whether or not 1163 00:57:05,390 --> 00:57:09,670 this was like a he saw Okay. Almost everyone's been cast 1164 00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:11,710 aside as an option. There's only like, these 1165 00:57:11,710 --> 00:57:14,870 brothers between me and claiming it for myself. 1166 00:57:15,310 --> 00:57:17,190 That's the only thing in my way now. 1167 00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:18,550 All these things have been cleared out. 1168 00:57:18,550 --> 00:57:20,750 He realized the position he's in, where I can just take this 1169 00:57:20,750 --> 00:57:22,870 all for myself. Well, only Lord Blackwood's 1170 00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:25,390 brothers are in my way. He just has to say he doesn't 1171 00:57:25,390 --> 00:57:26,510 trust them or something like that. 1172 00:57:26,510 --> 00:57:28,750 Now if they were really, really honorable guys, that might not 1173 00:57:28,750 --> 00:57:31,510 have worked, so they probably weren't like super upstanding 1174 00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:34,350 guys, but maybe it was just a big power play and he was able 1175 00:57:34,350 --> 00:57:36,950 to control the narrative. I don't know. 1176 00:57:37,590 --> 00:57:41,030 So. I still lean on him not being so 1177 00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:45,610 I don't know what word to use. Manipulative or or ambitious? 1178 00:57:46,170 --> 00:57:49,090 Because like you said, I think if they were like he didn't, he 1179 00:57:49,090 --> 00:57:51,490 didn't have him killed after the fact, right? 1180 00:57:51,690 --> 00:57:55,930 So it doesn't seem like he's just this evil, war mongering, 1181 00:57:55,970 --> 00:57:58,810 power hungry Lord. He he didn't have him killed as 1182 00:57:59,210 --> 00:58:01,010 far as we know. Potential legitimate. 1183 00:58:01,530 --> 00:58:04,450 But the fact that we didn't know anything about him, He might not 1184 00:58:04,450 --> 00:58:05,530 have known much about him either. 1185 00:58:05,530 --> 00:58:07,330 Or the one thing you might have known about him is they still 1186 00:58:07,330 --> 00:58:09,490 like grudges against these other families and it's just going to 1187 00:58:09,490 --> 00:58:11,650 be a war in a few years. Again, if I let them take over 1188 00:58:11,650 --> 00:58:15,210 like I I. Again, it's hard to know, but it 1189 00:58:15,250 --> 00:58:18,450 it just, it doesn't follow the pattern of someone who's being 1190 00:58:18,770 --> 00:58:21,210 ambitious to me. I think he legitimate and and 1191 00:58:21,210 --> 00:58:23,050 especially because he went through these levels already of 1192 00:58:23,050 --> 00:58:26,010 trying to find someone else to be in charge, scratched his 1193 00:58:26,010 --> 00:58:27,650 head. I think the whole thing he's 1194 00:58:27,650 --> 00:58:29,490 trying to do is just find stability. 1195 00:58:30,050 --> 00:58:31,090 I can see that, Yeah. I mean. 1196 00:58:31,330 --> 00:58:32,690 You can't trust anyone else to do it. 1197 00:58:32,690 --> 00:58:34,610 I'll just do it to be fair. That's pretty much what happened 1198 00:58:34,610 --> 00:58:37,210 to Robert Trebellion Once they realized that like there's no 1199 00:58:37,410 --> 00:58:39,290 Aries has to die or Aries is dead. 1200 00:58:39,730 --> 00:58:42,350 You know they. Yeah, they weren't aiming. 1201 00:58:42,350 --> 00:58:45,030 They were there's no ambition. Wasn't there at any point for 1202 00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:46,350 for Robert, really. I don't think. 1203 00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:49,510 Not much anyway. Certainly not for Ned or John 1204 00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:50,270 Aaron apparently. Yeah. 1205 00:58:50,270 --> 00:58:52,030 Like John Aaron was more like, yeah, we got a John. 1206 00:58:52,030 --> 00:58:53,990 Aaron was about the stability. He's like now we've the Civil 1207 00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:55,750 War has happened. It happened for honorable 1208 00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:58,390 reasons. But we got to settle things or 1209 00:58:58,390 --> 00:59:00,270 it's going to get worse and that's going to be on us. 1210 00:59:01,190 --> 00:59:04,710 And so yeah, maybe I'm being a little too cynical, but it's 1211 00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:07,550 it's still the cynical options are on the table and you're 1212 00:59:07,550 --> 00:59:09,190 right to float the less cynical options. 1213 00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:11,820 They're on the table too. Another option is very. 1214 00:59:11,860 --> 00:59:14,020 Reasonably cynical, especially in this world. 1215 00:59:15,300 --> 00:59:19,220 Another awkward angle to having one of Lord Blackwood's brothers 1216 00:59:19,740 --> 00:59:22,220 as the new king was where is his seat of power? 1217 00:59:22,300 --> 00:59:24,380 He doesn't inherit Raventry Hall. 1218 00:59:24,380 --> 00:59:26,780 The that 8 year old kid does, no matter what, that's not 1219 00:59:26,780 --> 00:59:28,500 changing. He still inherits. 1220 00:59:28,500 --> 00:59:29,900 The 8 year old boy gets Raventry Hall. 1221 00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:32,580 That that shouldn't matter. None of this should change that. 1222 00:59:32,580 --> 00:59:35,100 Now maybe if one of them was going to be given made king, 1223 00:59:35,100 --> 00:59:36,660 they might be like, well, we're going to have to give you 1224 00:59:36,660 --> 00:59:39,730 Raventry Hall too, because then you don't even have a castle. 1225 00:59:39,730 --> 00:59:43,250 What's a king without a castle? So it may have been part of the 1226 00:59:43,490 --> 00:59:45,330 argument against one of the brothers, I'm not sure. 1227 00:59:45,730 --> 00:59:52,170 Either way, it doesn't seem like they saw what came as coming, 1228 00:59:52,170 --> 00:59:54,410 and maybe that's because it didn't seem like a very maybe 1229 00:59:54,490 --> 00:59:57,290 because it was a long shot. Maybe they maybe I'm calling 1230 00:59:57,290 --> 01:00:02,250 them short sighted when really it was at the time it it did 1231 01:00:02,250 --> 01:00:04,330 seem really outlandish, like the river at the Storm lands had 1232 01:00:04,330 --> 01:00:05,730 never ruled the river lands before it. 1233 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,920 You could see why that wouldn't have necessarily been an idea 1234 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,360 that was prominent in many people's minds, but however 1235 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,520 prominent or not prominent was, that is what happened. 1236 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,440 He just said, you know what, Y'all this is mine now I'm the 1237 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,120 king of the of the river lands and he didn't even go and rename 1238 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,400 himself a king of storms and rivers or whatever. 1239 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,280 It's just the storm land. It's all the storm lands. 1240 01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,920 Like what? What an insult. 1241 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,360 They didn't even get to keep their name. 1242 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,960 This is 1 big Kingdom now. That's another thing that makes 1243 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,920 me think a little bit like that he wasn't really planning this 1244 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:42,280 that because if he was, he might have done some of it better, 1245 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,920 right? Because in a way that is a 1246 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,120 mistake he made. I want to say that even if he 1247 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:52,480 had good intentions, he did sort of rob them of their identity by 1248 01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,520 doing that. But I don't think that was his 1249 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,400 goal. I think it was an error, right? 1250 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,080 Because like, yeah, like before Roderick Blackwood died and and 1251 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:00,520 there's no reason to think he murdered him. 1252 01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:04,920 He died in battle and it's pretty hard to murder a Lord in 1253 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,000 battle when he's surrounded by his own guards. 1254 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,640 Like your army's, like your army's over here, His is over 1255 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:10,600 here. Like you're not even next to 1256 01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:11,760 each other. You're fighting as the same 1257 01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,120 battle, but you're you're not even like near each other, you 1258 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,280 know, in terms of proximity, direct proximity. 1259 01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,160 So as Nina, as Nina phrases it, Roderick Blackwood is the 1260 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,800 ideological leader of the rebellion and the leader with 1261 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,480 the most royal credentials. And Blackwood's had been kings 1262 01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,200 before, so they had that going for them. 1263 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,320 So it wasn't like raising someone up who would never had 1264 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,480 the royal title before. And they may have been kings in 1265 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,640 the north as well, so it may have been double kingships. 1266 01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:41,840 But regardless they were worthy in the eyes of the river Lords. 1267 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,800 At least enough of them. But not only does he die, but 1268 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,080 then the other teagues died. I didn't even mention you know 1269 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:55,480 we we mentioned Damon Humphrey Lord or King Humphrey's champion 1270 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,640 was his brother. That guy was a great fighter. 1271 01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,980 So you know that he could have, if he had survived, it would 1272 01:02:00,980 --> 01:02:03,740 have been a real big deal. The war could have continued for 1273 01:02:03,740 --> 01:02:06,820 a long time. Like how would and if they had 1274 01:02:06,820 --> 01:02:09,340 fought of themselves rather than Storm King Just saying okay, 1275 01:02:09,340 --> 01:02:11,540 it's mine. The river lands could have just 1276 01:02:11,540 --> 01:02:13,500 shredded itself even more. And and that's part might have 1277 01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:15,860 been part of the reason he's like I can't leave them to 1278 01:02:15,860 --> 01:02:18,420 choose either. They just, they won't. 1279 01:02:18,620 --> 01:02:20,700 They'll fight each other. They'll just go back to war. 1280 01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:23,860 Like it's might seem a little like who get what gives you the 1281 01:02:23,860 --> 01:02:25,940 right to to tell these people what to do. 1282 01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:29,430 But come on, like they're going to kill each other, like. 1283 01:02:30,830 --> 01:02:33,350 He What gives him the right to tell each other what to do? 1284 01:02:33,350 --> 01:02:34,710 Yeah. It's like, no one's right here. 1285 01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:36,830 So it's just the least bad option. 1286 01:02:36,830 --> 01:02:39,790 It's it's like, yeah, that's that's what war brings you to a 1287 01:02:39,790 --> 01:02:42,350 series of least bad options. It's never you don't often don't 1288 01:02:42,350 --> 01:02:47,270 have good choices. So anyway, Anita agrees that 1289 01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:52,150 with you for the most part, that Arlen the Third was probably 1290 01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:56,310 being sincere when he envisioned setting up Roderick Blackwood as 1291 01:02:56,310 --> 01:02:59,670 king and then had to pivot. Because yeah, he was really 1292 01:02:59,670 --> 01:03:02,710 closely tied to Roderick. He had two marriages and that 1293 01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:06,470 would be enough to get influence and concessions and you know 1294 01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:10,230 good deals between the two of them and and not likely have 1295 01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:12,630 things come to war, have a border they could trust because 1296 01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:15,750 you have two kings that are married and and that's the core 1297 01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:19,070 of a lot of royal and and noble marriages, is to force each 1298 01:03:19,070 --> 01:03:21,230 other to get along. You're not going to fight your 1299 01:03:21,230 --> 01:03:22,470 family, are you? Well, you might. 1300 01:03:22,470 --> 01:03:27,920 But hopefully it puts a big barrier between that and the 1301 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:29,840 worst possible outcomes, which is yeah. 1302 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,480 A couple of things I can imagine in the scenario, like I 1303 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,680 constantly imagine if they made a show out of this. 1304 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,520 If Martin did write a fully expanded 3 Series books covering 1305 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:44,880 all the details, I might have considered some of these worst 1306 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:49,040 case scenarios like well, if. They do. 1307 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,880 If all the errors die, well, then I'll make this girl in 1308 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:52,880 charge. Oh, with that. 1309 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,440 But I guess in a worst case scenario I'll just take over. 1310 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,840 He might have had this back of the mind. 1311 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,880 Plan B, Plan C kind of stuff. Didn't expect it to come to that 1312 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,980 also. He might have had those ideas 1313 01:04:04,980 --> 01:04:06,540 because someone was playing. There might have been some 1314 01:04:06,540 --> 01:04:08,660 Littlefinger in his court. There might have been some other 1315 01:04:08,660 --> 01:04:12,300 advisors, some other people who had something at stake, or even 1316 01:04:12,300 --> 01:04:14,660 if again not to be too sinister, other people who were just 1317 01:04:14,660 --> 01:04:16,820 trying to think about what would be the he might have had a 1318 01:04:16,820 --> 01:04:18,660 meeting with his counsel and they all had their different 1319 01:04:18,660 --> 01:04:21,940 thoughts, how it might go, what we can do to make the best of 1320 01:04:21,940 --> 01:04:24,460 it, how important stability is. They might have pitched these 1321 01:04:24,460 --> 01:04:27,860 ideas to him and things he might not even thought of claiming it 1322 01:04:27,860 --> 01:04:31,620 for himself might have been suggested to him, you know, Good 1323 01:04:31,620 --> 01:04:33,750 said. Here's a little piece from Nina. 1324 01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:35,630 It can't be overstated. What overstated? 1325 01:04:35,630 --> 01:04:37,670 What Arlen the Third decided to do with the Riverlands because 1326 01:04:37,670 --> 01:04:40,350 his decision directly contributed both to ongoing 1327 01:04:40,350 --> 01:04:42,910 rebellions against Durand and Rule, as well as the eventual 1328 01:04:42,910 --> 01:04:45,790 willingness to support the horror invasion on the part of 1329 01:04:45,790 --> 01:04:47,150 some River Lords. Like that's what's going to 1330 01:04:47,150 --> 01:04:48,830 happen, is they're going to be so eager to get rid of the Storm 1331 01:04:48,830 --> 01:04:51,270 Kings, they actually support the Ironborn invasion, which is 1332 01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:54,070 like, what planet is this happening on? 1333 01:04:54,070 --> 01:04:56,870 Like this is Bizarro World. They're supporting the Ironborn 1334 01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:59,710 like, whoo. Yeah, that's bizarro toast, 1335 01:05:00,350 --> 01:05:05,110 Bizarro toast, said Bizarro toast. 1336 01:05:05,230 --> 01:05:09,430 And partly and and, and though it might seem small, partly this 1337 01:05:09,430 --> 01:05:11,150 is this. Eliminating them as a region, 1338 01:05:11,150 --> 01:05:13,550 like not even naming them as a thing anymore. 1339 01:05:13,550 --> 01:05:15,950 They're just part of the storm lands now like that. 1340 01:05:15,950 --> 01:05:18,350 That was probably adding insult to injury. 1341 01:05:18,910 --> 01:05:21,550 And they have contributed in some small measure to the the 1342 01:05:21,550 --> 01:05:24,790 longstanding grievances that would eventually come to a head, 1343 01:05:25,500 --> 01:05:28,420 but not for quite a while, where the Storm Kings would endure A 1344 01:05:28,420 --> 01:05:32,060 rebellion from the river lands almost once a generation again. 1345 01:05:32,260 --> 01:05:35,140 This is why you don't rule this place lightly. 1346 01:05:35,140 --> 01:05:38,340 It's a hard place to rule. They will not be ruled lightly. 1347 01:05:38,340 --> 01:05:41,260 They will try to throw you off. They will try to throw each 1348 01:05:41,260 --> 01:05:43,020 other off. They will fight that, basically 1349 01:05:43,020 --> 01:05:44,780 that they are. It's a warlike region. 1350 01:05:45,540 --> 01:05:48,260 Arlen and his and his advisors. Surely you saw that coming, 1351 01:05:48,260 --> 01:05:50,780 which again, is why they didn't do this lightly. 1352 01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,840 So much defending. They have to send their army out 1353 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,640 all this time, and their army is all the way down in Storm's End. 1354 01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:01,800 Like it's a hassle. So yeah, the bigger the Dernden 1355 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,660 Empire got, the more some of the other houses would see them as a 1356 01:06:05,660 --> 01:06:07,780 threat, would look at them as the big dog that need to be 1357 01:06:07,780 --> 01:06:10,740 toppled down a peg or two. The more likely people would be 1358 01:06:10,740 --> 01:06:13,940 to gang up on them. So yeah, again, just like it, 1359 01:06:13,940 --> 01:06:15,380 like any. We've talked about this in terms 1360 01:06:15,380 --> 01:06:18,660 of war board gaming before. Right, Sean, you have like 5 or 1361 01:06:18,660 --> 01:06:20,340 6 people. We're all playing and no one 1362 01:06:20,340 --> 01:06:23,220 wants to stick their neck out and be the one to to to attack 1363 01:06:23,220 --> 01:06:24,980 someone else because then you put a target on yourself. 1364 01:06:24,980 --> 01:06:27,420 And that's that's the same kind of thinking that the storm lands 1365 01:06:27,420 --> 01:06:29,420 would have been engaged in here. Like, well, if we take the whole 1366 01:06:29,420 --> 01:06:31,900 river lands, we're taking the center of Westeros, the part 1367 01:06:31,900 --> 01:06:34,500 that everyone's already or is fighting over, and people won't 1368 01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:36,180 want us to have that and they don't want us to have 1369 01:06:36,180 --> 01:06:37,940 everything. Yeah, just a lot of target 1370 01:06:37,940 --> 01:06:41,660 painting on self. It's another dynamic we talked 1371 01:06:41,660 --> 01:06:43,220 about a little bit with Agon too. 1372 01:06:44,580 --> 01:06:46,420 I don't know. This can apply in a lot of 1373 01:06:46,420 --> 01:06:48,980 different ways. If you're the big dog, you don't 1374 01:06:48,980 --> 01:06:50,660 want to barely be the big dog, yes. 1375 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,480 Because then people think they might be able to take you, 1376 01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,560 especially if they team up. But Agon is like, I'm the clear, 1377 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,520 dominant big dog. Any two or three of you couldn't 1378 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:01,680 even come close to taking me out. 1379 01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:03,200 And that that's better for stability. 1380 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,560 It's more dangerous for tyranny, but it's better for stability 1381 01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,440 when you have a clear, dominant big dog. 1382 01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,920 Agon is the personification of walks off and carry a big stick. 1383 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,400 That's big stick is Valerian, obviously. 1384 01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:18,560 Eddie has black fire. Well, how? 1385 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,330 He's got two big sticks. One's a lot bigger than the 1386 01:07:21,330 --> 01:07:23,650 other, however. All right, so we're working our 1387 01:07:23,650 --> 01:07:24,930 way. We're almost to the midpoint 1388 01:07:24,930 --> 01:07:28,250 here. We're ending our jump back 1389 01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:30,890 through time. But here we'll leave it with a 1390 01:07:31,210 --> 01:07:34,010 quote about the Storm lands doubling in size and what 1391 01:07:34,050 --> 01:07:37,850 preceded the next few centuries. And so they would remain more 1392 01:07:37,850 --> 01:07:41,890 than three centuries, though the river Lords rose against Storm's 1393 01:07:41,890 --> 01:07:44,410 End at least once each generation. 1394 01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:49,360 A dozen pretenders from as many houses would adopt the style of 1395 01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,600 River King or King of the Trident, and vow to throw off 1396 01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:58,360 the yoke of the storm Landers. Some even succeeded for a 1397 01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,560 fortnight, A moon's turn, even a year. 1398 01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:06,280 But their Thrones were built on mud and sand, and in the end a 1399 01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:10,400 fresh host would March from Storm's End to topple them and 1400 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,400 hang the men who presume to sit upon them. 1401 01:08:14,030 --> 01:08:16,790 This, by the way, explains a part of why Heron was like 1402 01:08:17,229 --> 01:08:19,870 trying to do the big dog thing that we just described. 1403 01:08:19,870 --> 01:08:24,430 Like, well, if I have a giant castle that's unassailable, then 1404 01:08:24,430 --> 01:08:27,229 maybe for one, someone can actually lock this region down 1405 01:08:27,229 --> 01:08:29,310 and and get these Lords to to fall in line. 1406 01:08:29,310 --> 01:08:33,229 Of course it took someone with a big dragon not a big castle, but 1407 01:08:33,229 --> 01:08:35,830 he he did have the right idea, I think, at least in theory. 1408 01:08:35,830 --> 01:08:38,830 Not like it wasn't ethical necessarily, but maybe it was, I 1409 01:08:38,830 --> 01:08:40,229 don't know. Not the way he built the castle 1410 01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:43,140 that's for sure. But anyway this this point about 1411 01:08:43,899 --> 01:08:45,580 But the Thrones were built on mud and sand. 1412 01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:48,740 Now that's metaphorical, but literally the river lands is not 1413 01:08:48,740 --> 01:08:52,140 a a place that has a lot of really powerful castles. 1414 01:08:52,380 --> 01:08:56,220 River like river Run is very defensible but it's not like a 1415 01:08:56,220 --> 01:08:59,700 place to mass a ton of troops. It's not a powerhouse in terms 1416 01:08:59,700 --> 01:09:03,540 of an aggressive option. You think about the big strong 1417 01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:07,290 castles in the river lands, you're like, well who who would 1418 01:09:07,290 --> 01:09:08,850 that be? Yeah, like it just doesn't 1419 01:09:08,850 --> 01:09:10,770 really compare to the other reasons like the other regions 1420 01:09:10,770 --> 01:09:13,010 have probably partly because they're less war-torn. 1421 01:09:13,010 --> 01:09:15,569 You know they've had more time to more of their money can go 1422 01:09:15,569 --> 01:09:19,250 into making their castle strong rather than paying their troops 1423 01:09:19,250 --> 01:09:22,010 and and losing money to battles and. 1424 01:09:22,609 --> 01:09:25,450 Then there's been more stability around their land, so they've 1425 01:09:25,450 --> 01:09:29,370 had more consistent crops and larger populations and on and 1426 01:09:29,370 --> 01:09:32,350 on, yeah. That's another thing too, like I 1427 01:09:32,350 --> 01:09:34,830 would say a difference between Heron was trying to be big 1428 01:09:34,830 --> 01:09:36,870 enough a dog so that no one challenged him. 1429 01:09:37,670 --> 01:09:39,950 Egan was trying to be big enough, a dog so that there was 1430 01:09:39,950 --> 01:09:43,830 stability in the land, Yes. And you see, This is why. 1431 01:09:43,870 --> 01:09:46,189 Part of the reason, I mean this was just a fun story, but part 1432 01:09:46,189 --> 01:09:49,590 of the reason I really wanted to bring this all up at this time 1433 01:09:49,590 --> 01:09:53,310 was to show what a big deal it is that Agon actually settled 1434 01:09:53,310 --> 01:09:55,990 them. And they actually did stay loyal 1435 01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:59,350 to him. Like the Tullys led the 1436 01:09:59,350 --> 01:10:03,210 rebellion against the are helped were the first to join Rodrick 1437 01:10:03,210 --> 01:10:05,370 Blackwood against the the the teams. 1438 01:10:05,370 --> 01:10:08,530 They were the first to join Agon against Herron Herron. 1439 01:10:08,810 --> 01:10:11,250 So they're ready to go all these times, they're like, yeah, we're 1440 01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:13,010 ready to join this rebellion. Let's go. 1441 01:10:13,290 --> 01:10:15,730 But when it comes to the Targaryens, they're staunch 1442 01:10:15,730 --> 01:10:20,450 Targaryen loyalists until Aries like that's what broke. 1443 01:10:20,450 --> 01:10:22,810 It was right like that and some things that happened right 1444 01:10:22,810 --> 01:10:24,970 before that. So that's a long time of staying 1445 01:10:24,970 --> 01:10:28,610 loyal after rebelling every generation, right. 1446 01:10:28,610 --> 01:10:32,410 Like, that's a lot. And then you get to Targaryen 1447 01:10:32,410 --> 01:10:35,690 rule and it's like, no, this is locked down better than it's 1448 01:10:35,690 --> 01:10:38,650 ever been locked down before. We got peace here for the and 1449 01:10:38,650 --> 01:10:43,730 you see as as soon as the War of 5 Kings starts, it's like it 1450 01:10:43,730 --> 01:10:46,330 goes back to those old days of the Riverlands becoming this 1451 01:10:46,330 --> 01:10:49,890 hellscape of war. Whether it's them or their 1452 01:10:49,890 --> 01:10:52,450 enemies coming there to make it a battleground, whether they 1453 01:10:52,450 --> 01:10:55,170 started it or not, Ari is wandering through the 1454 01:10:55,170 --> 01:10:56,810 Riverlands. They're horrible, right? 1455 01:10:56,810 --> 01:11:00,040 Like the the what she sees there. 1456 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,400 This would have been happening in this time. 1457 01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,880 Maybe not a Greg Oracle gain, not the specific personalities, 1458 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,120 There wouldn't have been bloody mummers, but there would have 1459 01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:14,000 been awful people doing awful things to regular folk who did 1460 01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,040 nothing but exist. And this is the kind of 1461 01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,400 stability when you're like, well, what is what right? 1462 01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,680 Does someone like Aegon have to attack all these Lords? 1463 01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:26,240 And as well he's the Lords are the ones suffering. 1464 01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,960 But in the long term, the peasants benefit greatly from 1465 01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:31,760 this kind of stability. Maybe the Lords don't like it 1466 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,360 that much, but let's not. But there's a lot more peasants 1467 01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,440 than there are Lords. A lot more lives are being kept 1468 01:11:36,440 --> 01:11:40,000 peaceful because someone was strong enough to stop the 1469 01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,240 violence with violence. But that's the way of the world. 1470 01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:48,080 The storm lands held the river lands for about as long as the 1471 01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:49,320 Targaryens will end up holding it. 1472 01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,880 About 300 years. That's about a long before the 1473 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:57,290 war 5 kings starts and things are still happening now in the 1474 01:11:57,290 --> 01:11:58,490 books. We don't know what we don't. 1475 01:11:58,650 --> 01:12:01,290 We're not at a point where we can say how it's going to be. 1476 01:12:02,650 --> 01:12:05,290 And the entire 7 kingdoms went to a descendant of Ireland the 1477 01:12:05,290 --> 01:12:10,410 3rd, right and Robert Baratheon. So it also kind of came back 1478 01:12:10,410 --> 01:12:13,130 around that way because Robert is a descendant of this storm 1479 01:12:13,130 --> 01:12:15,130 king. Very distant relative, but 1480 01:12:15,130 --> 01:12:17,530 definitely a relative. So that's pretty neat. 1481 01:12:18,330 --> 01:12:21,530 Let's go ahead and take our mid roll break here. 1482 01:12:22,130 --> 01:12:26,100 And I want to remind you all that every Friday I'm playing 1483 01:12:26,100 --> 01:12:29,580 Crusader Kings 3 for A Song of Ice and Fire. 1484 01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:33,580 It's a really, really awesome mod developed for that game and 1485 01:12:33,580 --> 01:12:35,740 the graphics are fantastic. There's a group of us that hang 1486 01:12:35,740 --> 01:12:39,980 out every Friday at six and while I'm making decisions for 1487 01:12:39,980 --> 01:12:43,820 whatever house I'm playing right now I'm Ober and Dane or no I'm 1488 01:12:43,820 --> 01:12:45,260 sorry. Ober and Dane was killed in 1489 01:12:45,260 --> 01:12:48,540 attorney accident which was very fitting because he was he was a 1490 01:12:48,540 --> 01:12:50,220 good attorneys but he was also a cheater. 1491 01:12:50,300 --> 01:12:52,100 He cheat. He was a good fighter who 1492 01:12:52,100 --> 01:12:53,900 cheated a lot. So we made him a good attorney 1493 01:12:53,900 --> 01:12:56,700 night. He was like the snail from from 1494 01:12:57,660 --> 01:13:00,580 the the mystery night. He was a good jouster but also 1495 01:13:00,580 --> 01:13:03,540 cheated and knew what to do like a good at both of those things 1496 01:13:03,540 --> 01:13:06,340 this this guy was that. So our thinking is maybe someone 1497 01:13:07,020 --> 01:13:08,860 had him killed and made it look like an accident. 1498 01:13:08,860 --> 01:13:11,580 We were a victim of our own lifestyle. 1499 01:13:12,020 --> 01:13:16,980 But we're we're working on our our new son is a guy named 1500 01:13:16,980 --> 01:13:20,460 Gaines Dane and he's a he's he's huge like the size of Gregor. 1501 01:13:20,460 --> 01:13:22,300 But we're teaching him to be a good kid and hopefully he'll 1502 01:13:22,300 --> 01:13:24,860 wheel dawn one day. So that's the kind of fun stuff 1503 01:13:24,860 --> 01:13:26,180 we're doing. It's a really great game. 1504 01:13:26,180 --> 01:13:30,580 Dynasties, politics, intrigue, random events, tournaments, 1505 01:13:30,580 --> 01:13:34,660 weddings, it's it's a lot of fun role-playing but with the with 1506 01:13:34,660 --> 01:13:37,740 the computer handling so many things at once, math and like 1507 01:13:37,740 --> 01:13:41,180 the the money and the taxes and it's it's really overwhelming 1508 01:13:41,180 --> 01:13:43,810 and awesome. It's comparable to civilization, 1509 01:13:43,810 --> 01:13:45,890 right? That fair it's it's more drilled 1510 01:13:45,890 --> 01:13:48,250 down. You are playing individuals but 1511 01:13:48,250 --> 01:13:51,210 you have this large time scale but it's not quite the grand 1512 01:13:51,210 --> 01:13:54,770 scale of of Civ. Like you play years in a session 1513 01:13:54,770 --> 01:13:58,570 rather than maybe hundreds of years in a session but you but 1514 01:13:58,570 --> 01:14:01,330 when you finish a long campaign you may have ended up playing 1515 01:14:01,330 --> 01:14:02,730 hundreds of years. Civ. 1516 01:14:02,730 --> 01:14:05,090 You end up playing thousands of years usually But yeah yeah 1517 01:14:05,090 --> 01:14:07,010 there's some similar like you're not like you're not doing like 1518 01:14:07,010 --> 01:14:09,450 founding a lot of cities and advancing technology a whole lot 1519 01:14:09,450 --> 01:14:11,650 but you are making small advances in technology like 1520 01:14:12,980 --> 01:14:16,780 better windmills but you're not like inventing electricity you 1521 01:14:16,780 --> 01:14:20,540 know you're not going from from stone tools to nuclear power 1522 01:14:20,900 --> 01:14:23,260 throughout the game technology stays about the same. 1523 01:14:24,580 --> 01:14:27,140 Also want to let people know that if you listen to the 1524 01:14:27,140 --> 01:14:29,500 Patreon listen to our episodes on Patreon. 1525 01:14:29,780 --> 01:14:33,460 Spotify and Patron have created a a bit of a merger. 1526 01:14:33,540 --> 01:14:39,220 They you can now listen to the Patreon only feed on Spotify, 1527 01:14:39,220 --> 01:14:44,610 which is better because Spotify has a better player than Patreon 1528 01:14:44,610 --> 01:14:47,530 does, which makes sense. They're in the business of 1529 01:14:47,850 --> 01:14:50,850 playing audio things, their music and audio that's their 1530 01:14:50,930 --> 01:14:54,130 central business obviously. Whereas Patreon is main business 1531 01:14:54,130 --> 01:14:57,650 is facilitating payments to creators from supporters. 1532 01:14:58,530 --> 01:15:01,850 So it's a lot easier to look through and scroll through and 1533 01:15:01,850 --> 01:15:03,610 all that. So if you want to get if you're 1534 01:15:03,610 --> 01:15:07,570 already on Patreon and want to be scrolling and getting the 1535 01:15:07,570 --> 01:15:11,400 episodes off of Spotify, let us know and we'll show you how to 1536 01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,560 do that Westeros history@gmail.com For any 1537 01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,360 questions related to that or just anything else you want to 1538 01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,560 hit us up for. Question from Dornish Dame. 1539 01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:23,920 If the Teagues were establishing a bunch of sceptres at this 1540 01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,480 time, could the quiet aisle date back to this period? 1541 01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,000 Oh, nice call. Yeah, I would have to look 1542 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,120 deeper to see if the quiet aisle, if there's any clues in 1543 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,640 those chapters that indicate how long the quiet aisle has been 1544 01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,950 there. I do recall it was founded by a 1545 01:15:39,950 --> 01:15:42,510 quiet guy, like a particular man started that way and then it 1546 01:15:42,510 --> 01:15:43,950 continued that way, if I remember correctly. 1547 01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:46,870 So yeah, it could be because the, if you all remember the 1548 01:15:47,190 --> 01:15:53,270 where the Trident empties out into the Bay there, that's where 1549 01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:57,510 the quiet aisle is. It's like right there offshore 1550 01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:59,870 where the river empties out in the sea. 1551 01:15:59,870 --> 01:16:03,270 So it is. It's kind of isolated but but 1552 01:16:03,270 --> 01:16:06,530 also not so. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 1553 01:16:06,530 --> 01:16:09,450 I like that idea quite a bit. Fits very well. 1554 01:16:11,410 --> 01:16:16,330 All right, now let's get back to our history jump now we're 300 1555 01:16:16,330 --> 01:16:18,210 years ahead. We're at the end of the rain of 1556 01:16:18,210 --> 01:16:22,530 the storm kings. As we transition to the horror 1557 01:16:22,530 --> 01:16:26,010 dynasty, which will then, yeah, I know it's always weird saying 1558 01:16:26,010 --> 01:16:30,010 that the horror dynasty, which will then get into lead us back 1559 01:16:30,010 --> 01:16:33,330 into current times, meaning a gun's conquest current times. 1560 01:16:34,220 --> 01:16:36,540 It seems likely that the Blackwoods continued to benefit 1561 01:16:36,540 --> 01:16:38,340 from their relationship to the Storm Kings. 1562 01:16:38,940 --> 01:16:40,140 After all, they had that double merit. 1563 01:16:40,140 --> 01:16:42,500 So even though they didn't become kings, they were married 1564 01:16:42,500 --> 01:16:44,700 to the kings. Because when the River lands 1565 01:16:44,700 --> 01:16:47,420 change hands 300 years later, the Blackwoods were in the 1566 01:16:47,420 --> 01:16:50,820 center of it yet again, but not in a good way. 1567 01:16:51,140 --> 01:16:54,460 It started with hair in the Black's grandfather quote. 1568 01:16:54,620 --> 01:16:58,300 When Storms ends, Grasp Upon the River Lands was finally broken. 1569 01:16:58,300 --> 01:17:01,700 It was no River Lord who broke it, but a rival conqueror from 1570 01:17:01,700 --> 01:17:04,910 beyond the lands of the Trident. Harwin whore called the Hard 1571 01:17:04,910 --> 01:17:08,870 Hand King of the Iron Islands. Crossing Ironman's Bay with 100 1572 01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:11,510 long ships, Harwin's force landed 40 leagues South of 1573 01:17:11,510 --> 01:17:14,710 Seaguard and marched inland to the Blue Fork, carrying their 1574 01:17:14,710 --> 01:17:17,470 ships with them on their shoulders in a feat the singers 1575 01:17:17,470 --> 01:17:19,950 of the Isles still celebrate. Boy, it's hard to say. 1576 01:17:19,950 --> 01:17:23,950 Storms ends grasp. A couple tongue twisters in that 1577 01:17:23,950 --> 01:17:25,800 passage. Almost made it. 1578 01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:30,040 So that is a thing that's happened in real life. 1579 01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,240 There are some real life Viking stories about that. 1580 01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,440 There was an example of that portrayed on the show Vikings of 1581 01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:39,640 carrying ships over land and that was based on some real 1582 01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:42,880 incidents that have happened. Long ships are light enough for 1583 01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,120 that, and it's part of why they're light enough for that is 1584 01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,120 well, you get to do tricky things like carrying them over 1585 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:50,800 land and then drop them in the river and sail down the river. 1586 01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,560 So like it would be 100 years later. 1587 01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:57,160 The river Lords were not eager to stand for their their current 1588 01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:59,080 foreign ruler, the Storm King, at this point. 1589 01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:01,320 Since it's 300 years later, it's no longer Arlen. 1590 01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:05,120 It's Eric, though. He wasn't even aware of the 1591 01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:08,840 invasion at this point. Like Harwin, Hardhand snuck in 1592 01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,280 with these hundred long trips. Not only did they sneak by sea 1593 01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:16,240 guard, apparently they started wreaking havoc and taking 1594 01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,760 castles before Eric even heard about it. 1595 01:18:20,070 --> 01:18:23,190 The Tully's actually abandoned river run, which is kind of wild 1596 01:18:23,190 --> 01:18:24,750 considering how defensible it is. 1597 01:18:25,390 --> 01:18:27,990 Maybe it's less defensible against dudes with portable long 1598 01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:28,990 ships. I don't know. 1599 01:18:29,310 --> 01:18:32,390 Maybe the river having the water around it isn't as quite as 1600 01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:33,910 useful. I still think that would be 1601 01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:35,830 pretty effective because they have like catapults and stuff 1602 01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:37,750 like, but I don't know, I'm not sure. 1603 01:18:38,270 --> 01:18:42,430 Anyway, they marched to Raventry Hall, where apparently a lot of 1604 01:18:42,430 --> 01:18:45,110 the River lands Lords were gathering that, and again, the 1605 01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:47,950 Blackwoods were prominent enough to beat the spot where everyone 1606 01:18:47,950 --> 01:18:50,010 was gathering. At least a substantial number of 1607 01:18:50,010 --> 01:18:51,410 them were gathering because it wasn't all of them. 1608 01:18:51,970 --> 01:18:54,050 For example, the brackens didn't gather. 1609 01:18:54,450 --> 01:18:57,610 They didn't come hang out with the Blackwoods to to fight back 1610 01:18:57,770 --> 01:19:00,490 against the river Lords. And who did they? 1611 01:19:00,530 --> 01:19:03,930 Who was ruling Blackwood Hall at this time? 1612 01:19:04,650 --> 01:19:07,010 A certain Lady Agnes. Oh, so they wouldn't make a 1613 01:19:07,010 --> 01:19:09,650 woman queen, but they were totally willing to follow her in 1614 01:19:09,650 --> 01:19:11,170 war. I see. 1615 01:19:11,170 --> 01:19:13,810 I mean, this is 300 years later, but still, it's like, okay, 1616 01:19:13,810 --> 01:19:17,590 guys. But again, as we said, it wasn't 1617 01:19:17,590 --> 01:19:19,910 just about her being a woman. There was the political 1618 01:19:19,910 --> 01:19:22,470 situation to consider. Still, it's a little ironic. 1619 01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:25,830 I can't help but notice that. So the Blackwoods were the 1620 01:19:25,830 --> 01:19:27,390 leaders of those willing to fight the Ironborn. 1621 01:19:27,390 --> 01:19:30,310 That's another thing of like, hey, we're the good guys. 1622 01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:33,990 We're leading us in a good way. Like we're leading against the 1623 01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:39,910 foreign invader. However, the Harwin attacked 1624 01:19:39,910 --> 01:19:42,990 them and maybe is had been planned. 1625 01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:46,750 Maybe the Brackens just took the initiative but they attacked the 1626 01:19:46,750 --> 01:19:50,390 River Lords from behind and helped Harwin. 1627 01:19:50,470 --> 01:19:53,710 Like how does this help you engender loyalty amongst your 1628 01:19:53,710 --> 01:19:56,350 fellow river Lords when you side with the Ironborn? 1629 01:19:56,990 --> 01:20:01,150 And it was effective, though it did win the battle easily. 1630 01:20:02,150 --> 01:20:06,390 And again, the River lands didn't fully unite against an 1631 01:20:06,390 --> 01:20:09,690 invasion because. Of their past. 1632 01:20:09,690 --> 01:20:10,370 Of not. Not. 1633 01:20:10,370 --> 01:20:13,530 In this case it was not wanting to defend their Storm King and 1634 01:20:13,530 --> 01:20:17,050 not wanting to work with certain other allies that were rising 1635 01:20:17,050 --> 01:20:20,010 against Hardhand here. But you really got to have your 1636 01:20:20,010 --> 01:20:22,250 head up your butt to think the Iron Born are preferable. 1637 01:20:23,730 --> 01:20:26,450 I mean, it's not like Harwin Hardhand was an unknown quantity 1638 01:20:26,450 --> 01:20:28,490 at this point too. He had a reputation by then. 1639 01:20:29,570 --> 01:20:33,210 Either way Lothar, this Lothar Bracken guy, he was Lord of the 1640 01:20:33,210 --> 01:20:36,930 Brackens that that made this decision to attack his fellow 1641 01:20:36,930 --> 01:20:41,720 river Lords from behind. And they may have thought that 1642 01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,560 this was just a Raider. Maybe that was it. 1643 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,480 They didn't think this guy was coming to stay cuz the iron bar 1644 01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,200 never come to stay. They never had really before. 1645 01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,960 It had been a long time since they had so another fatal error, 1646 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:56,840 another fatal calculation. Cuz he did stay, you know? 1647 01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:03,010 And maybe the Brackens thought that they could leverage the 1648 01:21:03,010 --> 01:21:05,330 Ironborn to become kings. Like, hey, I helped you in this 1649 01:21:05,330 --> 01:21:08,250 battle, surely you aren't going to be king of the Riverlands. 1650 01:21:08,250 --> 01:21:11,210 Make me king of the Riverlands. I'll be a good ally to you. 1651 01:21:11,210 --> 01:21:12,810 We can be pals and Harwin's like. 1652 01:21:13,370 --> 01:21:17,490 Sure, bro, that's what we'll do. It's a bad plan, right? 1653 01:21:17,610 --> 01:21:19,530 Bad plan on whoever supported the neighbors too. 1654 01:21:19,850 --> 01:21:22,890 But as you point out, Sean, there's other examples of people 1655 01:21:22,890 --> 01:21:28,050 making hella bad decisions in war, both within this story and 1656 01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:32,010 just in the real world. Yeah, Nina points out. 1657 01:21:32,010 --> 01:21:34,650 It seems like a bad plan. But hey, you know, Rob misjudged 1658 01:21:34,650 --> 01:21:36,890 the Ironborn. Also, he's the exact thing he 1659 01:21:36,890 --> 01:21:39,210 would get their support. But my counter to that as well, 1660 01:21:39,210 --> 01:21:40,610 Rob had his head up his butt too. 1661 01:21:40,610 --> 01:21:43,330 Yeah, so he did have his. Yeah, so it's exactly right. 1662 01:21:43,330 --> 01:21:45,370 My point. You have to have your head up 1663 01:21:45,370 --> 01:21:47,970 your butt to trust the Ironborn. And they both trusted the 1664 01:21:47,970 --> 01:21:50,410 Ironborn. And the result was fairly 1665 01:21:50,410 --> 01:21:54,010 predictable. Like, Rob shouldn't have even 1666 01:21:54,010 --> 01:21:57,730 trusted himself, right? Yeah, you know, Rob, obviously, 1667 01:21:57,770 --> 01:21:59,890 as Nina points out, Rob was is no dummy. 1668 01:21:59,890 --> 01:22:02,290 He made a lot of extremely clever decisions. 1669 01:22:02,530 --> 01:22:03,770 This was not one of them, however. 1670 01:22:04,250 --> 01:22:06,650 But he's also immature. He's inexperienced. 1671 01:22:06,890 --> 01:22:10,250 Writing the Ironborn and saying, hey, let's let's team up against 1672 01:22:10,250 --> 01:22:14,930 the West was not. In theory it's a good idea, but 1673 01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:18,700 in reality he's that naive part was the personality fail and 1674 01:22:18,700 --> 01:22:21,860 Greyjoy and who he has grudges against and and how stubborn he. 1675 01:22:22,060 --> 01:22:24,100 I'm talking more about the idea that he didn't live up to his 1676 01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:26,140 obligation to this marriage. Oh, that's true. 1677 01:22:26,180 --> 01:22:28,180 Sure. I mean everything but but like 1678 01:22:28,180 --> 01:22:31,500 if you're like like I don't know, those were his father 1679 01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:34,900 tried to teach him. You know, he maybe did or didn't 1680 01:22:34,900 --> 01:22:38,260 get a lot of lessons on you know diplomacy and military strategy. 1681 01:22:38,260 --> 01:22:41,980 It seemed like he either had some innate ability or or go. 1682 01:22:42,670 --> 01:22:44,470 Wrote Ned did teach him well or something. 1683 01:22:44,630 --> 01:22:47,270 Yeah, but Ned also would have told him to stick to his word 1684 01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:49,350 that his honor is important and all these other things. 1685 01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:52,590 Like, I'm a teenager in love. Who cares about all that? 1686 01:22:52,590 --> 01:22:54,230 And Ned did warn about the Iron War. 1687 01:22:54,230 --> 01:22:56,670 Ned, Warren, Catlin, about the Ironborn and about Rob. 1688 01:22:56,670 --> 01:22:58,230 He's like, keep thee on close, you know? 1689 01:22:58,630 --> 01:23:00,790 And then like, whoops, send him back to the Iron Islands. 1690 01:23:00,790 --> 01:23:02,630 Whoops, that was. That's not keeping him close. 1691 01:23:02,910 --> 01:23:04,470 But he didn't tell Rob to do that. 1692 01:23:04,470 --> 01:23:07,590 He also never didn't foresee Rob becoming a king or taking over 1693 01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:08,950 any of that stuff. It's like Rob's 14. 1694 01:23:08,950 --> 01:23:11,890 What are you talking about? So or Rob not living up to his 1695 01:23:11,890 --> 01:23:13,730 marriage obligations, Right. So, yeah, Rob. 1696 01:23:13,770 --> 01:23:16,410 She's integral to the war plan. And that's the same with Danny 1697 01:23:16,410 --> 01:23:18,890 and John. They make a lot of brand, they 1698 01:23:18,970 --> 01:23:20,850 make a lot of really smart decisions, but they also do 1699 01:23:20,850 --> 01:23:24,130 some, like, really naive things that probably only a young 1700 01:23:24,130 --> 01:23:25,450 person would do. Like that kind. 1701 01:23:25,490 --> 01:23:26,690 Of they're most, like, real people. 1702 01:23:26,690 --> 01:23:29,690 My God, you're right. What the heck? 1703 01:23:30,370 --> 01:23:34,460 So this was, yeah, so maybe the horror seemed like the lesser of 1704 01:23:34,460 --> 01:23:36,500 two evils, because the Duran didn't said had been held for 1705 01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:38,420 300 years. They tried to overthrow the 1706 01:23:38,420 --> 01:23:42,020 Duran so many times as it says, a rebellion roughly once per 1707 01:23:42,020 --> 01:23:43,700 generation. All failure. 1708 01:23:43,700 --> 01:23:47,860 So maybe that's 300 years of desperately trying to finally 1709 01:23:47,860 --> 01:23:50,940 get rid of the storm Kings led them to think that this was 1710 01:23:50,980 --> 01:23:55,100 finally the answer. And of course it was way worse, 1711 01:23:55,100 --> 01:23:57,460 because the Ironborn rulers were way worse. 1712 01:23:57,780 --> 01:24:02,490 And here's how it went After the battle was over and Lady Agnes 1713 01:24:02,490 --> 01:24:05,330 was captured and the the Blackwoods and their allies were 1714 01:24:05,330 --> 01:24:08,250 defeated, she was brought before King Harwin. 1715 01:24:09,210 --> 01:24:13,250 Lady Agnes herself and two of her sons were captured and 1716 01:24:13,250 --> 01:24:17,850 delivered to King Harwin, who forced the mother to watch as he 1717 01:24:17,850 --> 01:24:20,570 strangled her boys with his bare hands. 1718 01:24:21,050 --> 01:24:25,770 Yet Lady Agnes did not weep. If the tales are true, I have 1719 01:24:25,770 --> 01:24:28,730 other sons, she told the King of the Iron Isles. 1720 01:24:29,090 --> 01:24:32,650 Raven Tree shall endure long after you and yours are cast 1721 01:24:32,650 --> 01:24:37,170 down and destroyed. Your line shall end in Blood and 1722 01:24:37,170 --> 01:24:38,930 Fire. When we first read The World 1723 01:24:38,930 --> 01:24:40,770 Advice and Fire, that line was pretty easy to overlook. 1724 01:24:40,810 --> 01:24:43,690 Yeah, even the even the sort. Even the book itself suggests 1725 01:24:43,690 --> 01:24:46,690 that that was probably a later invention, like added on for 1726 01:24:47,650 --> 01:24:50,370 just to make the history book seem cooler, which is a fun 1727 01:24:50,370 --> 01:24:53,750 thing for the author to include in the book that he's writing. 1728 01:24:54,310 --> 01:24:56,510 He's like, I only added this for to seem cooler. 1729 01:24:56,790 --> 01:24:59,950 But on retrospect, in retrospect, now that we know 1730 01:24:59,950 --> 01:25:03,870 that Aegon's dream was a real thing that George stands by, it 1731 01:25:03,870 --> 01:25:05,750 at least becomes feasible. It's still kind of weird like 1732 01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:07,950 well, when did she does she have this dream? 1733 01:25:07,950 --> 01:25:11,550 Like is that why she stood up to Heron in the 1st place because 1734 01:25:11,550 --> 01:25:14,070 she'd, like got a vision from the wherewood or she just as a 1735 01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:16,910 dreamer? I mean she's worshipper of the 1736 01:25:16,910 --> 01:25:19,270 old gods. It's certainly possible she has 1737 01:25:19,270 --> 01:25:20,750 green dreams or something like that. 1738 01:25:21,580 --> 01:25:24,900 Yeah, it you can't throw it out now, it's absolutely possible 1739 01:25:24,900 --> 01:25:27,140 the sources would just discard it no matter what, even it was 1740 01:25:27,140 --> 01:25:28,620 real because they wouldn't be able to verify that. 1741 01:25:28,620 --> 01:25:31,340 It would sound like nonsense. But now we have potential 1742 01:25:31,340 --> 01:25:33,780 corroboration, so we definitely can't throw it out. 1743 01:25:33,780 --> 01:25:35,900 We obviously can't corroborate it ourselves either, but. 1744 01:25:36,780 --> 01:25:39,340 Yeah, you can imagine her being about right about a bunch of 1745 01:25:39,340 --> 01:25:41,820 other things too, which might be why so many people were willing 1746 01:25:41,820 --> 01:25:43,980 to follow. Very good call. 1747 01:25:43,980 --> 01:25:45,980 Yes, that makes a lot of sense. If she had predicted some other 1748 01:25:45,980 --> 01:25:49,460 things or had some accurate dreams, they would be willing to 1749 01:25:49,460 --> 01:25:51,020 follow her. Yeah, and maybe she just didn't 1750 01:25:51,020 --> 01:25:54,140 have a dream about the brackens. That's more of a you should have 1751 01:25:54,140 --> 01:25:56,060 seen that one coming. The brackens are being the 1752 01:25:56,060 --> 01:25:56,980 brackens. Y'all. 1753 01:25:57,940 --> 01:26:02,740 And George has talked about borrowing this story, the Agnes 1754 01:26:02,780 --> 01:26:07,060 Blackwood line, from a popular and probably apocryphal anecdote 1755 01:26:07,060 --> 01:26:11,020 told about William Marshall, Catherine Svorza, and, as George 1756 01:26:11,020 --> 01:26:13,900 cheerfully put it, six different men and at least two women. 1757 01:26:14,420 --> 01:26:16,260 The fact that George talks about it being a story that was 1758 01:26:16,260 --> 01:26:18,620 probably made-up but so entertaining nevertheless makes 1759 01:26:18,620 --> 01:26:20,660 me think he was probably doing the same here. 1760 01:26:20,860 --> 01:26:23,180 Not really trying to make a supernatural, prophetic point, 1761 01:26:23,220 --> 01:26:26,180 just embellishing the historical chronicle with added flair for 1762 01:26:26,180 --> 01:26:28,860 one of his favorite houses. Nina says the Blackwoods are 1763 01:26:28,860 --> 01:26:30,060 clearly one of his favorite houses. 1764 01:26:30,060 --> 01:26:31,460 You know, it's hard to disagree with that. 1765 01:26:31,780 --> 01:26:33,340 It does seem like one of his favorite houses. 1766 01:26:34,060 --> 01:26:38,820 But still, I like the idea that maybe it's not entirely made-up. 1767 01:26:38,860 --> 01:26:41,900 It probably is. But we have to consider the 1768 01:26:41,900 --> 01:26:43,540 possibility that people were having these dreams. 1769 01:26:43,540 --> 01:26:49,230 I mean, the idea of dreaming about the eventual Others is 1770 01:26:49,230 --> 01:26:51,790 really old. It's certainly not the timeline 1771 01:26:51,790 --> 01:26:53,910 like it being this long ago. Certainly that doesn't throw us 1772 01:26:53,910 --> 01:26:55,590 off. That's not an argument against 1773 01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:58,750 it because this is something that's like the Prince that was 1774 01:26:58,750 --> 01:27:01,270 promised or as or high. It's a super, super ancient 1775 01:27:01,270 --> 01:27:04,430 thing. It it predates, it might predate 1776 01:27:04,430 --> 01:27:06,430 the Seven Kingdom. I mean, it might predate like 1777 01:27:06,510 --> 01:27:09,110 the first man in Westeros. It certainly predates the 1778 01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:10,790 Andalls in Westeros. I would think so. 1779 01:27:11,750 --> 01:27:14,310 There's a lot of potentials. Or if you can see the future in 1780 01:27:14,310 --> 01:27:19,510 dreams, then why not this one? Yeah, and well, yeah, could be, 1781 01:27:19,510 --> 01:27:21,470 could be. Let us know what you think about 1782 01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:25,230 the Agnes Black. Agnes Blackwoods almost called 1783 01:27:25,270 --> 01:27:29,350 Agnes black fire. Agnes Blackwood's words here. 1784 01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:31,750 Whether you think there's a chance that this was a real 1785 01:27:31,750 --> 01:27:33,910 dream or if any other details you might want to add to the 1786 01:27:33,910 --> 01:27:36,710 Knicks, maybe we'll bring them up in a future episode. 1787 01:27:37,990 --> 01:27:42,990 So after the defeat of the Blackwood and Tully host Storm 1788 01:27:42,990 --> 01:27:48,110 King Eric arrived with his host to try to defeat the Ironborn 1789 01:27:48,110 --> 01:27:52,350 invader and other Riverlands houses followed the Bracken's 1790 01:27:52,350 --> 01:27:55,750 foolishness. They went so far as to side with 1791 01:27:55,750 --> 01:27:59,510 Harwin against Arick. Now we we would have seen this 1792 01:27:59,510 --> 01:28:02,310 coming, of course, because as we've said, they've didn't see 1793 01:28:02,310 --> 01:28:03,750 the danger and supporting Harwin. 1794 01:28:04,350 --> 01:28:07,670 But it continued in in these ways like this, despite having 1795 01:28:07,670 --> 01:28:10,810 more men. King Arks were in sorry shape by 1796 01:28:10,810 --> 01:28:13,250 the time it came to battle because the River land River 1797 01:28:13,250 --> 01:28:18,090 Lords did did what Tywin did. They burned their own lands, 1798 01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:22,610 despoiled their own wells, and denied the invading army food 1799 01:28:22,610 --> 01:28:25,170 and fodder. Meanwhile, they were apparently 1800 01:28:25,170 --> 01:28:28,210 happy to provide the Ironborn with food and fodder. 1801 01:28:28,210 --> 01:28:31,530 Woo. This is just so, so backfireish 1802 01:28:32,410 --> 01:28:34,730 because. But Aric didn't back down. 1803 01:28:34,730 --> 01:28:36,250 He's like, it doesn't. I don't care that we don't have 1804 01:28:36,250 --> 01:28:37,970 food. Let's keep going. 1805 01:28:37,970 --> 01:28:42,130 I'm not going to lose this land that my family has had for 300 1806 01:28:42,130 --> 01:28:45,650 years. Shades of Go ahead. 1807 01:28:46,530 --> 01:28:49,050 This is a fine line between backfire and black fire. 1808 01:28:49,050 --> 01:28:53,570 It really is 1 fine little L Yes, you're right one little L 1809 01:28:54,210 --> 01:28:57,290 So he he should have backed down but didn't. 1810 01:28:57,290 --> 01:29:03,230 And when he finally came to cross swords with Harwin and he 1811 01:29:03,230 --> 01:29:07,470 lost many men and two of his brothers although not himself, 1812 01:29:07,470 --> 01:29:09,110 he escaped back to the storm lands. 1813 01:29:10,030 --> 01:29:14,470 This is when Lord Bracken was maybe expecting to get the 1814 01:29:14,470 --> 01:29:20,750 crown, but of course King Harwin kept it and without looking for 1815 01:29:20,750 --> 01:29:23,190 alternatives first, Harwin didn't even go through the 1816 01:29:23,190 --> 01:29:25,110 motions of well, who else could I put? 1817 01:29:25,110 --> 01:29:26,590 Maybe I could put this guy in charge. 1818 01:29:26,590 --> 01:29:28,710 Now he just straight went straight to taking it. 1819 01:29:28,950 --> 01:29:32,150 There was no let's see who you guys might prefer to have. 1820 01:29:32,150 --> 01:29:33,830 Let's let's do it right. None of this. 1821 01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:35,870 None of the things that Arlen the Third did. 1822 01:29:36,030 --> 01:29:40,630 It was just, yeah, straight from the battle of 6 Kings AK the 1823 01:29:40,630 --> 01:29:44,070 Battle of the Cleavage to figuring things out here. 1824 01:29:44,070 --> 01:29:47,430 It was straight from battle to I'm king now of your of the 1825 01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:50,990 river lands. The sources doubt that Bracken 1826 01:29:50,990 --> 01:29:54,150 expected this. Which of course, like, yeah, why 1827 01:29:54,150 --> 01:29:57,190 would he expect that? Why would he expect an Ironborn 1828 01:29:57,190 --> 01:29:59,520 to hand him a crown? On the other hand, what did he 1829 01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:02,520 expect? On the other hand, we've seen 1830 01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:06,560 lots of people make big mistakes, lots of ruling with 1831 01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,640 their heads up their butt. So maybe this is just another 1832 01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:12,280 case of head up butt. I don't know. 1833 01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,440 It's just like it's hard to see Lord Bracken's plan here. 1834 01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:17,480 Like, well, did he? Because it's it's like, yeah, 1835 01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:19,920 common sense would dictate that the Ironborn would not just hand 1836 01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:24,080 this over. But what outcome did he expect 1837 01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:27,160 then? If he's not thinking that, it's 1838 01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:29,640 hard to see any alternative. So I don't know. 1839 01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:34,200 But also, Nina points out that we're relying on records at 1840 01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:39,840 Stonehedge, but as part of Harwin's punishment to Lord 1841 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:43,320 Bracken, he sacked Stonehedge. So maybe the records were lost. 1842 01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:46,520 I mean, I don't know that they wouldn't have taken the papers 1843 01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:48,760 because they wouldn't have seen it as valuable, but they might 1844 01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,480 have burned them. So it's a big mess. 1845 01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:56,160 By the way, this is all happening right at the beginning 1846 01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:59,160 of the Century of Blood. So kind of a neat thing is that 1847 01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:03,880 the Doom had been fairly recent, so the whole world is in a weird 1848 01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:07,520 state right now where the entire Valyrian Freehold is gone. 1849 01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:10,520 So it's a time of kingdoms changing. 1850 01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:15,400 Maybe in some ways the entire world is seeing how things are 1851 01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:17,360 different. Like, the whole world is 1852 01:31:17,440 --> 01:31:22,420 undergoing dramatic growing pains and changes and the most 1853 01:31:22,420 --> 01:31:24,180 powerful empire that's ever existed is gone. 1854 01:31:24,180 --> 01:31:26,340 Now the Free Cities are in disarray. 1855 01:31:26,780 --> 01:31:29,820 The storm lands would feel a lot of that because the the Free 1856 01:31:29,820 --> 01:31:31,860 Cities would be a lot of their trading partners. 1857 01:31:31,860 --> 01:31:34,740 They're really close, right? That's that's proximity wise. 1858 01:31:34,740 --> 01:31:36,580 The Narrow Sea, well, the Narrow Sea is narrow. 1859 01:31:36,780 --> 01:31:40,780 It's not a great distance and there's no King's Landing, of 1860 01:31:40,780 --> 01:31:43,460 course. So yeah, it's all very 1861 01:31:43,460 --> 01:31:45,620 interesting to consider the global politics in this 1862 01:31:45,620 --> 01:31:50,210 scenario, even as we're pretty contained to Westeros still. 1863 01:31:50,210 --> 01:31:53,370 The the vibe, the things people were thinking about, like the 1864 01:31:53,370 --> 01:31:58,810 attitudes of, wow, if if the Valyrians can fall, then anyone 1865 01:31:58,810 --> 01:32:00,410 can fall. And of course, the Targaryens 1866 01:32:00,410 --> 01:32:02,050 would have just moved to Dragonstone. 1867 01:32:02,050 --> 01:32:04,490 So some people in Westeros would be like, what are they doing? 1868 01:32:04,490 --> 01:32:06,650 You know, what's their deal? You know, there's Dragons just 1869 01:32:06,650 --> 01:32:08,930 offshore there now, like, what's that all about? 1870 01:32:09,530 --> 01:32:12,770 So just things were different in Westeros, you know. 1871 01:32:12,770 --> 01:32:15,010 I don't know if that would how much that would register for 1872 01:32:15,010 --> 01:32:19,510 like the common folk, but for a lot of people like the world is 1873 01:32:19,510 --> 01:32:21,750 changing, you know, I wonder and I wonder if that like affects 1874 01:32:21,750 --> 01:32:24,950 people's dreams, like if magic had changed and all like malaria 1875 01:32:24,950 --> 01:32:27,910 being destroyed might affect the way the the magic currents of 1876 01:32:27,910 --> 01:32:30,750 the world work, which might affect the world of dreams and 1877 01:32:30,750 --> 01:32:32,110 all that. I don't know. 1878 01:32:32,990 --> 01:32:36,670 The American Revolution had a bit of a ripple effect, right? 1879 01:32:36,670 --> 01:32:38,630 The French Revolution came soon after. 1880 01:32:38,630 --> 01:32:40,910 And, you know, because mentalities about what and how 1881 01:32:40,910 --> 01:32:43,270 government should work started to change, I can. 1882 01:32:43,970 --> 01:32:45,490 I have an instinct to think I have. 1883 01:32:45,490 --> 01:32:47,210 People in Westeros don't even know what the heck is going on 1884 01:32:47,210 --> 01:32:49,970 in Valaria, but but that would have been big enough of an event 1885 01:32:50,210 --> 01:32:54,850 that it it may have rippled through the rumor channels and 1886 01:32:54,850 --> 01:32:56,610 mentalities of leaders and everything. 1887 01:32:56,650 --> 01:32:59,130 Yeah, big time. A big time of change. 1888 01:32:59,130 --> 01:33:01,490 Not just things happening in Essos, but here in Westeros as 1889 01:33:01,490 --> 01:33:03,570 well. So or or maybe framing it the 1890 01:33:03,570 --> 01:33:05,690 other way, it makes more sense given where our focus is. 1891 01:33:05,690 --> 01:33:11,290 But either way, so the Hore dynasty established and two more 1892 01:33:11,290 --> 01:33:17,160 attempts were made by Arak. So Lothar Bracken tried to fight 1893 01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:20,360 Harwin and no one supported him because he was a backstabbing 1894 01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:21,840 jerk. And that's, that's the that's 1895 01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:24,200 what caused Stonehedge to get sacked in response. 1896 01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:29,520 And so yeah, Arak tried twice and lost both times. 1897 01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,000 He didn't. He didn't die either time. 1898 01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:35,320 He managed to survive. His eldest son, Arlen the 5th, 1899 01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:38,560 also tried and did die in the attempt. 1900 01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:41,560 This was probably past the time of Harwin. 1901 01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:46,260 This was probably Halleckhore hiring the Black's father and 1902 01:33:46,260 --> 01:33:51,740 Arlen the 5th is Argalac the the Argon's father, right? 1903 01:33:51,740 --> 01:33:55,740 So Eric, the one who lost the storm, lost the river lands is 1904 01:33:55,740 --> 01:33:57,780 the grandfather of Argalac the arrogant. 1905 01:33:57,780 --> 01:34:01,500 So you can see why part of why Argalac was, like, a little 1906 01:34:01,500 --> 01:34:04,260 weird about those lands. Because they had, they had been 1907 01:34:04,260 --> 01:34:07,500 his family's only 100 years prior. 1908 01:34:07,500 --> 01:34:11,260 Maybe even a little less. So the same lens that he tried 1909 01:34:11,260 --> 01:34:15,100 to partly give as dowry to Agon that he didn't have the power to 1910 01:34:15,100 --> 01:34:16,780 give because they were our herons. 1911 01:34:17,140 --> 01:34:18,780 It might have been a little, like, stubborn as well. 1912 01:34:18,780 --> 01:34:20,180 Yeah, but. But they were ours. 1913 01:34:20,300 --> 01:34:24,020 They should be ours. You know, we had them recently. 1914 01:34:24,020 --> 01:34:26,020 I still think of them as ours, you know. 1915 01:34:26,740 --> 01:34:31,180 And so when we get to the time of Agon's conquest and the fact 1916 01:34:31,180 --> 01:34:33,860 that Argalek is now on his back feet, he's healed. 1917 01:34:33,860 --> 01:34:36,180 At this point, he can't. He's the storm lands are in no 1918 01:34:36,180 --> 01:34:40,530 position to be invading the river lands at that point. 1919 01:34:41,330 --> 01:34:44,050 They had been for quite a while because as we saw, there had 1920 01:34:44,050 --> 01:34:46,850 been all these attempts to retake them, but by our Galax 1921 01:34:46,850 --> 01:34:49,970 time there hadn't. At least maybe not. 1922 01:34:49,970 --> 01:34:52,170 Maybe early in our Galax reign he did try that. 1923 01:34:52,170 --> 01:34:54,210 It's possible that it's not because our Galac had fought a 1924 01:34:54,210 --> 01:34:55,730 lot of battles. He was known to be a great 1925 01:34:55,730 --> 01:34:57,450 warrior. He had very experienced in 1926 01:34:57,450 --> 01:35:00,130 battle. Surely some of those battles 1927 01:35:00,130 --> 01:35:03,530 were against Heron, right? Or, or maybe even in italic. 1928 01:35:03,530 --> 01:35:08,000 Because, you know, maybe when maybe their lives overlapped 1929 01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:09,600 like that. Now maybe these weren't wars of 1930 01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:12,400 conquest, or maybe they were small wars of like, border 1931 01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:17,000 disputes, like who controls this part of this land that's right 1932 01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:19,640 on the border between the two kingdoms, That kind of thing, 1933 01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:23,040 rather than fullblown conquest attempts of the entire thing. 1934 01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:30,760 Anyway, that is all really good dots to connect to where we've 1935 01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:34,520 been and where we're still going, because the River Lands 1936 01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:38,720 is still going to have its these attitudes and a lot of this 1937 01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:40,840 history that fuels a lot of their actions later. 1938 01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:43,880 So let's get into this last section for today, the New River 1939 01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:47,240 Lands. It's almost certainly the 1940 01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:51,720 Kingdom with the most houses that have ever worn the A crown 1941 01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,240 right? The most number of kings. 1942 01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:57,520 Now maybe that's different if you go back way, way, way far to 1943 01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:00,520 the time of 1000 kings or 100 kingdoms or whatever. 1944 01:36:01,170 --> 01:36:04,690 But in terms of like the last few thousand years or maybe even 1945 01:36:04,690 --> 01:36:08,370 last 2000, whatever, there's very few realms that can say 1946 01:36:08,370 --> 01:36:10,050 that. If if it all, I would still bet 1947 01:36:10,050 --> 01:36:11,730 on the Riverlands. I haven't counted because I 1948 01:36:11,730 --> 01:36:13,250 don't know. I don't know if there is a 1949 01:36:13,250 --> 01:36:16,410 count, but it's not like the reach where just one house has 1950 01:36:16,410 --> 01:36:20,210 just had this superior castle and bloodline for so long that 1951 01:36:20,210 --> 01:36:22,130 allows them to just trump everyone else's claims 1952 01:36:22,130 --> 01:36:25,080 constantly. Or the West, where one house 1953 01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:28,680 just has a superior castle, also even more superior in some ways 1954 01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:31,840 because it's like so hard to take casually rock away unless 1955 01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,640 you're land the clever. But yeah, it's only been done 1956 01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:36,120 once. That's how hard it is to take it 1957 01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:40,200 away And an unassailable supply of wealth on top of that. 1958 01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:43,000 So like, certain houses are just, well more positioned to 1959 01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:43,920 dominate. That's what we said. 1960 01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,720 No house in the Riverlands has ever had that level of just 1961 01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:49,400 we're so much more powerful than everybody else that everyone 1962 01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:51,160 else is going to bend the knee to us because of that. 1963 01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:53,810 There just has never been that sort of presence in the 1964 01:36:53,810 --> 01:36:55,770 Riverlands. It's always been more of a 1965 01:36:57,930 --> 01:37:01,490 rotating wheel, a spinning wheel of, you know options. 1966 01:37:02,490 --> 01:37:05,730 Heron almost accomplished it by and Heron Hall was a way to do 1967 01:37:05,730 --> 01:37:07,850 that. And instead of a place to unrule 1968 01:37:07,850 --> 01:37:10,010 the unruly though, Heron Hall became a warning. 1969 01:37:10,450 --> 01:37:14,130 Get along or else. But if you do things will go 1970 01:37:14,130 --> 01:37:17,890 genuinely well. And Agon kind of showed that 1971 01:37:17,890 --> 01:37:24,170 Riverlands is had lots of great centuries or decades, couple of 1972 01:37:24,170 --> 01:37:26,370 great centuries under under the Iron Throne. 1973 01:37:28,450 --> 01:37:33,330 So the reason the Tully loyalty lasts so long is because it it 1974 01:37:33,330 --> 01:37:34,730 really did happen. It really did work. 1975 01:37:34,730 --> 01:37:36,810 There really was the stability that no one else ever finally 1976 01:37:36,810 --> 01:37:41,730 brought them and the grudges were out of the out of play, 1977 01:37:41,810 --> 01:37:43,210 right. That's another huge thing. 1978 01:37:44,530 --> 01:37:46,930 If the Blackwoods become King of the Riverlands, the Brackens are 1979 01:37:46,930 --> 01:37:49,130 going to be mad, the Brackens become King of the Riverlands. 1980 01:37:49,130 --> 01:37:51,800 The Blackwoods will be mad if the Tully's become well, They 1981 01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:53,840 never were kings of the Riverlands, but when they were 1982 01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,920 appointed overlord, people were upset because, well, it's not 1983 01:37:56,920 --> 01:37:58,680 them, it's they all hate each other. 1984 01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:00,920 So the grudge is removed from the equation. 1985 01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,920 With Agon in there. They don't have a longstanding 1986 01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:07,680 hate of the Targaryens, or of the Valyrians, or Dragonstone, 1987 01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:10,680 or the Lords of the Narrow Sea, or anything really associated 1988 01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:11,840 with them. They don't hate. 1989 01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:13,600 They haven't had a long hatred of Dragons. 1990 01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,480 They do really hate the Ironborn even more than they ever have 1991 01:38:16,480 --> 01:38:19,110 because they've been ruled by them for 100 years and before 1992 01:38:19,110 --> 01:38:21,030 that they were ruled by the Storm Kings for 300 years. 1993 01:38:21,030 --> 01:38:24,350 So finally this guy comes along and, well, they're they're 1994 01:38:24,350 --> 01:38:27,150 probably a little wary, like are we really going to be free under 1995 01:38:27,150 --> 01:38:29,390 this dragon king who just destroyed this castle with his 1996 01:38:29,390 --> 01:38:30,710 dragon? Is it really going to be like 1997 01:38:30,710 --> 01:38:33,310 that or are we just going to expect are we just trading one 1998 01:38:33,310 --> 01:38:37,590 awful king for another? I suspect some of them took the 1999 01:38:37,590 --> 01:38:41,470 measure of Agon and we're like, well, this is we don't know what 2000 01:38:41,470 --> 01:38:42,950 he's all about yet we we haven't. 2001 01:38:43,230 --> 01:38:46,310 His personality is kind of hidden, but he's clearly no 2002 01:38:46,310 --> 01:38:48,700 Heron. He's clearly no Harwin hardhand. 2003 01:38:49,100 --> 01:38:51,540 He's clearly no argalacty arrogance. 2004 01:38:52,020 --> 01:38:57,180 So as there was optimism amongst the common folk of the 2005 01:38:57,180 --> 01:39:01,380 Blackwater when they cheered for Aegon's banner, which may have 2006 01:39:01,380 --> 01:39:04,300 been, you know, embellished a little bit, but at the time we 2007 01:39:04,300 --> 01:39:06,500 said no, they might, but they might really. 2008 01:39:06,620 --> 01:39:08,660 There might really be some enthusiasm, some genuine 2009 01:39:08,660 --> 01:39:11,060 enthusiasm for someone that genuinely looks strong enough to 2010 01:39:11,060 --> 01:39:13,210 keep the peace. That same attitude might be 2011 01:39:13,210 --> 01:39:14,890 here. Like, yeah, that guy burned this 2012 01:39:14,890 --> 01:39:18,450 castle. He beat hair in the black alone. 2013 01:39:18,450 --> 01:39:23,130 One guy on one dragon like this really might work. 2014 01:39:23,130 --> 01:39:25,530 Y'all. It might finally be a strong 2015 01:39:25,530 --> 01:39:28,370 enough ruler to keep the peace. So some some folks might have 2016 01:39:28,370 --> 01:39:30,130 really had that optimism. And that might be why the 2017 01:39:30,130 --> 01:39:32,610 tullies were, like, really bought in right away, of course, 2018 01:39:32,610 --> 01:39:35,490 partly because they were put at the top and they wanted to keep 2019 01:39:35,490 --> 01:39:37,250 that. But But it might not have been 2020 01:39:37,250 --> 01:39:38,250 cynical. It might have been really. 2021 01:39:38,250 --> 01:39:41,460 No, this might really work. Think two of people who might 2022 01:39:41,460 --> 01:39:44,700 have still been on the fence as this is playing out, but then 2023 01:39:44,700 --> 01:39:47,980 they see the veil joins Winterfeld. 2024 01:39:49,140 --> 01:39:51,580 Cassly Rock join. Like, all right, all right, you 2025 01:39:51,580 --> 01:39:54,100 know it's not. We're not these weird crazy ones 2026 01:39:54,100 --> 01:39:56,140 for going along with him. Everyone's buying into it. 2027 01:39:56,580 --> 01:39:57,900 Yeah. And that's a great point to to 2028 01:39:57,940 --> 01:40:00,740 pull out, Sean, because you're right, like 20 more years go by. 2029 01:40:00,740 --> 01:40:03,820 Not even 20, like two more years go by or one more year goes by 2030 01:40:03,820 --> 01:40:05,860 once the conquest is complete. And that's a totally different 2031 01:40:05,860 --> 01:40:07,740 picture than it is now, because they might be still thinking 2032 01:40:07,740 --> 01:40:10,450 well. He's going to go on and fight 2033 01:40:10,450 --> 01:40:12,530 these other castles, these other Lords of the Great Lords. 2034 01:40:12,530 --> 01:40:14,770 And if you saw what he just did to Heron Hall, you might be 2035 01:40:14,770 --> 01:40:16,690 confident. But you can still see how, like 2036 01:40:16,930 --> 01:40:18,570 no sure thing. He could get assassinated. 2037 01:40:18,570 --> 01:40:22,450 He could just choke on a clam the next day. 2038 01:40:22,450 --> 01:40:25,050 Why don't I pick clam out of all things oyster? 2039 01:40:25,850 --> 01:40:28,210 Stick it with seafood, stick with mollusks here. 2040 01:40:28,450 --> 01:40:32,490 Some mollusk could murder this king tomorrow and. 2041 01:40:32,930 --> 01:40:34,130 You know the way it always goes? Yeah. 2042 01:40:34,330 --> 01:40:36,890 And again, that's the fear. Like, yes, he looks really 2043 01:40:36,890 --> 01:40:39,530 strong and powerful, but he doesn't have any kids. 2044 01:40:40,250 --> 01:40:44,210 So there's still the risk of it. Just, yes, we switched to him 2045 01:40:45,010 --> 01:40:47,330 and he dies and he's got no errors. 2046 01:40:47,530 --> 01:40:50,990 And what next? Like, does it all just go into 2047 01:40:50,990 --> 01:40:53,550 chaos immediately after a couple of years? 2048 01:40:53,550 --> 01:40:55,750 So there was there. You can see there's both reasons 2049 01:40:55,750 --> 01:40:58,230 for optimism and some real big risks. 2050 01:40:58,350 --> 01:41:00,750 I I still think the optimism is greater because another thing it 2051 01:41:00,750 --> 01:41:03,590 would have been in a very short term, they legitimately could 2052 01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:08,950 have expected, was it all right, he's conquered the river lands, 2053 01:41:09,390 --> 01:41:13,190 we've sworn fealty to him, but he's going on to conquer these 2054 01:41:13,190 --> 01:41:16,150 other lands, so he's probably going to take all our soldiers, 2055 01:41:16,150 --> 01:41:19,360 he's going to take all our sons. And March them off to the West. 2056 01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:20,880 And man, they're all going to die out there. 2057 01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:23,480 Like, no, none of them died out there, right? 2058 01:41:23,480 --> 01:41:25,720 Hardly any what may like some. But they they didn't have to 2059 01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:28,080 sacrifice all their troops. That may be here and there, but 2060 01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:30,760 it wasn't like the Riverlands were ravaged for the sake of 2061 01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:32,560 Aegon's conquest, right? Right. 2062 01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:33,760 That's true. They were preserved. 2063 01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:34,720 Yeah, right. That's true. 2064 01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:35,640 That's true. You're right. 2065 01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,160 That's a really good point. Like, he they would probably 2066 01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:41,640 kind of amazed by that. Kind of gobsmacked by We just 2067 01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:45,920 switched kings, and the only ones that died were inside that 2068 01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:47,480 castle. You know, for the most part, 2069 01:41:47,480 --> 01:41:49,000 besides like this two little skirmishes. 2070 01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:52,440 But that's still like they would be able to brush that off pretty 2071 01:41:52,440 --> 01:41:55,480 lightly, given how much death usually happens when there's a. 2072 01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:57,880 How much death? There's usually been conquest 2073 01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:00,040 within the Riverland. He's conquesting the whole 2074 01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:03,480 continent and it was less death way by far, Yeah. 2075 01:42:03,480 --> 01:42:05,240 So they've never seen it. It's a great point. 2076 01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:07,160 They've never seen anything like this, especially the Riverlands, 2077 01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:10,280 who are just so used to just these just brutal, bloody, 2078 01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:15,180 muddy, just endless struggles. They're like, this is, this is 2079 01:42:15,220 --> 01:42:16,860 totally different. We've never seen anything like 2080 01:42:16,860 --> 01:42:17,380 this. So, yeah. 2081 01:42:17,420 --> 01:42:18,580 Yeah. I kind of see where you're 2082 01:42:18,580 --> 01:42:21,300 coming from that there might be a lot more optimism than I might 2083 01:42:21,300 --> 01:42:26,100 think. Maybe not immediately, but soon 2084 01:42:26,100 --> 01:42:29,180 after that. I can imagine in the days, weeks 2085 01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:31,700 following here in Hall, there's still might have been a lot of 2086 01:42:31,740 --> 01:42:34,580 uneasiness and expectation for a lot more death and war to come, 2087 01:42:34,980 --> 01:42:38,980 but a year later they're feeling good about things. 2088 01:42:39,060 --> 01:42:41,500 You know, it's true. Yeah. 2089 01:42:41,500 --> 01:42:43,940 It it went well. I mean, yeah, like like 10 years 2090 01:42:43,940 --> 01:42:46,300 in especially like, yeah, this is, this was a good call because 2091 01:42:46,420 --> 01:42:48,580 Agon's rain was going pretty smoothly other than what was 2092 01:42:48,580 --> 01:42:52,300 going in a Dorn, which, you know some river Landers probably went 2093 01:42:52,300 --> 01:42:55,580 to Dorn and died there. But mostly it was the Dragons 2094 01:42:55,580 --> 01:42:57,940 just flying around burning castles and not getting the 2095 01:42:57,940 --> 01:43:00,940 submissions they wanted. And it was the Reach. 2096 01:43:00,940 --> 01:43:02,300 You gave up more soldiers, right? 2097 01:43:02,300 --> 01:43:04,500 The reach was. The you're totally right. 2098 01:43:04,500 --> 01:43:09,340 The reach is the the primary antibeneficiary of of sufferer 2099 01:43:09,340 --> 01:43:10,420 of those losses. Yeah. 2100 01:43:11,990 --> 01:43:13,470 Yeah. Tully loyalty would stay as I 2101 01:43:13,470 --> 01:43:15,230 said they would stay strong all the way up until the time of 2102 01:43:15,230 --> 01:43:17,470 hoster and that's because of Aries's actions. 2103 01:43:17,950 --> 01:43:20,390 But but a little before that, there were some problems too. 2104 01:43:20,390 --> 01:43:22,470 It wasn't just Aries. Aries was like the last straw. 2105 01:43:23,390 --> 01:43:26,670 There was almost Tully queen. There was Celia Tully was almost 2106 01:43:26,670 --> 01:43:28,830 queen. But some things happened and we 2107 01:43:28,830 --> 01:43:32,950 described what happened in the Blackfish episode, and that's as 2108 01:43:32,950 --> 01:43:35,510 partly, and it was when those when Hoster and black hoster and 2109 01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:37,230 Blackfish were young when this happened. 2110 01:43:37,230 --> 01:43:41,790 So the getting denied a Tully Queen may have been when when 2111 01:43:41,790 --> 01:43:46,350 Hoster and Blackfish were boys, may have sat wrong with them at 2112 01:43:46,350 --> 01:43:47,870 a time when they're very impressionable, and that may 2113 01:43:47,870 --> 01:43:51,110 have helped make the decision to turn on the Targaryens as adults 2114 01:43:51,110 --> 01:43:55,670 a lot easier. Anyway, let's move past that 2115 01:43:55,670 --> 01:43:58,790 with those things in mind about the River Lords, their long 2116 01:43:58,790 --> 01:44:01,590 history trading one conqueror for another. 2117 01:44:01,590 --> 01:44:04,990 Let's consider the decision to name Lord Edmund Tully as Lord 2118 01:44:04,990 --> 01:44:07,670 Paramount of the River Lands. In light of how hard it had been 2119 01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:10,080 for Revelins to ever have stability. 2120 01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:13,360 Right here we have something new again with this new world 2121 01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:15,320 picture here, Lord Paramount. That's a new title. 2122 01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:18,120 No one had ever been a Lord Paramount before, and it's an 2123 01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:21,480 interesting title because Lord Paramount is seems to have 2124 01:44:21,480 --> 01:44:26,800 mostly been granted to Lords who hadn't been kings in the past. 2125 01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:29,560 Lord Stark was not named Lord Paramount of the North. 2126 01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:33,880 He's just Warden of the North and Lord of the North and Lord 2127 01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:37,060 of Winterfell. But Edmond was Lord Paramount of 2128 01:44:37,060 --> 01:44:41,580 the Trident and Tyrell Harlan Tyrell was Lord Paramount of the 2129 01:44:41,580 --> 01:44:43,740 Mander and then eventually Lord Paramount of the Reach. 2130 01:44:44,660 --> 01:44:46,220 He his house hadn't been kings either. 2131 01:44:46,940 --> 01:44:52,940 Now I guess maybe the, so it's kind of an interesting little 2132 01:44:52,940 --> 01:44:57,420 political sub discussion here but it was a way to maybe give 2133 01:44:58,020 --> 01:45:01,260 Edmond additional honor. You know a new title that gives 2134 01:45:01,260 --> 01:45:05,870 him some additional prestige and designating him is in charge of 2135 01:45:05,870 --> 01:45:07,870 the Riverlands but not king of the Riverlands. 2136 01:45:07,870 --> 01:45:09,870 So it's another way to kind of it's like a little softer. 2137 01:45:09,870 --> 01:45:11,870 It's like yeah he's in charge of y'all, he's not your king. 2138 01:45:11,870 --> 01:45:17,430 You don't have to kneel to him, but you do have to you know take 2139 01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:20,630 orders from him, especially in war and and he's first amongst 2140 01:45:20,630 --> 01:45:22,790 you, that kind of thing. So it's not quite it's not as 2141 01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:26,470 their pride is not quite as tested by these things they 2142 01:45:26,470 --> 01:45:27,990 don't have to kneel to him. That's a pretty big deal. 2143 01:45:28,070 --> 01:45:30,230 You know, it might seem kind of small in the scheme of things, 2144 01:45:30,230 --> 01:45:33,560 but it's it's not. I hadn't thought about this too 2145 01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,880 much till you just started talking about it, but it's I I 2146 01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:39,320 wonder if as much as anything, what might can make it an easier 2147 01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:42,120 pill for the subjects to follow. Is it? 2148 01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:46,480 I think it's a responsibility that he has at least as much as 2149 01:45:46,480 --> 01:45:48,760 a power that he has. Yeah, that's a great point. 2150 01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:51,560 Especially when you make a parallel to like Warden of the 2151 01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:53,920 North, like, OK, you are supposed to take care of the 2152 01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:56,560 North, that's your job. As one of my Lords in the Seven 2153 01:45:56,560 --> 01:46:00,530 Kingdoms, I wonder if paramount. There's already a Warden of the 2154 01:46:00,530 --> 01:46:02,850 North and East and Western where So what do we do about these 2155 01:46:02,850 --> 01:46:04,330 people in the middle? Well, they're paramount. 2156 01:46:04,330 --> 01:46:06,490 They're responsible for the people in their lands. 2157 01:46:07,130 --> 01:46:09,650 And so with that comes a certain amount of power. 2158 01:46:09,650 --> 01:46:13,290 But it might make the people in those lands feel happier about 2159 01:46:13,770 --> 01:46:16,330 paying homage or taxes or whatever else to them when they 2160 01:46:16,330 --> 01:46:19,370 recognize that they have a responsibility to them. 2161 01:46:19,410 --> 01:46:20,970 That's a great point. Like kings should have a 2162 01:46:20,970 --> 01:46:22,250 response, but the queen should have a response. 2163 01:46:22,250 --> 01:46:23,250 But they definitely don't always. 2164 01:46:23,250 --> 01:46:27,570 It's not like required of them whereas this Aegon requires that 2165 01:46:27,570 --> 01:46:30,010 he take these. Responsibility, Aegon, is 2166 01:46:30,050 --> 01:46:32,210 establishing this requirement as the Lord, Yes. 2167 01:46:32,210 --> 01:46:33,890 So that that is a very good point, Sean. 2168 01:46:33,890 --> 01:46:36,490 And it speaks to the way these Lords think, because pride is 2169 01:46:36,490 --> 01:46:38,690 such a big deal to them. It's not just the not kneeling, 2170 01:46:38,690 --> 01:46:41,650 but it's yes, this guy is above us, he's in charge, but he has 2171 01:46:41,650 --> 01:46:43,730 responsibilities. He has to work for us. 2172 01:46:44,010 --> 01:46:45,250 It's sort of like an elected official. 2173 01:46:45,250 --> 01:46:47,490 Whereas like, yes, this guy's got pat like the mayor, The 2174 01:46:47,490 --> 01:46:51,840 mayor of our town has power over us, but he has to run the town. 2175 01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:55,160 That power to help us, or he won't have that job, but next 2176 01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:58,800 time around or she or if they really abuse it, they may end up 2177 01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:01,880 in jail, which. They may end up getting stabbed 2178 01:47:01,880 --> 01:47:07,760 in the back by Jamie Lamson. That is how the mayor of of 2179 01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:13,400 Roswell, GA was last. Yes, there was the mayor's guard 2180 01:47:13,400 --> 01:47:18,840 turned on them in front of the Asphalt Throne. 2181 01:47:20,580 --> 01:47:25,660 So, and of course I wanted in terms of Aegon's decision, like 2182 01:47:25,660 --> 01:47:28,260 what was he thinking? We talked about how yeah, it it 2183 01:47:28,260 --> 01:47:31,620 made sense to reward the person that first came to him. 2184 01:47:31,860 --> 01:47:34,300 The one that first turned on Heron is the one that got the 2185 01:47:34,300 --> 01:47:36,500 biggest reward. That's the lesson. 2186 01:47:36,500 --> 01:47:38,740 That's the message he's sending to the other kingdoms. 2187 01:47:39,060 --> 01:47:41,560 Turn on your current king for me. 2188 01:47:41,680 --> 01:47:44,200 You'll get the biggest rewards. The ones who come later will 2189 01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:46,400 also get rewarded, but it's a lesser reward. 2190 01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:49,760 So come now you know. Save now, be the first five. 2191 01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:52,640 Get the 1st 5 Lords to join Aegon. 2192 01:47:52,960 --> 01:47:55,320 Get this commemorative Targaryen pin. 2193 01:47:56,800 --> 01:48:00,080 So the and and it's. It's true because when Edmond 2194 01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:06,010 Tully turned on Heron the quote even said it was like they 2195 01:48:06,010 --> 01:48:08,690 didn't use the serum domino effect but it was the tide turn, 2196 01:48:08,690 --> 01:48:11,250 like then it was Blackwood like everyone came. 2197 01:48:11,290 --> 01:48:13,610 It was a domino effect. Even though they didn't use that 2198 01:48:14,090 --> 01:48:18,650 that term on Aegon side, he would love to have Morse domino 2199 01:48:18,650 --> 01:48:22,570 falling events of this type, like where a couple of 2200 01:48:22,570 --> 01:48:26,850 defections of key Lords leads to far more because again he wants 2201 01:48:26,850 --> 01:48:30,330 to rule them not kill them. So the the bloodlessly the more 2202 01:48:30,330 --> 01:48:34,610 bloodless the better. And this is again why he went so 2203 01:48:34,610 --> 01:48:39,210 so big with the example of Heron to to set this up and to maybe 2204 01:48:39,210 --> 01:48:41,650 not have to do less more killing later. 2205 01:48:42,370 --> 01:48:44,850 Edmond Tully, as much of Heron is an example. 2206 01:48:44,850 --> 01:48:47,010 Edmond Tully is the reverse example. 2207 01:48:47,410 --> 01:48:49,810 This is what Heron is. What happens if you stand 2208 01:48:49,810 --> 01:48:52,970 against Egg on Edmond is what happens when you take his side. 2209 01:48:53,690 --> 01:48:56,330 It's like the carrot in a stick. Yes, the ultimate carrot for 2210 01:48:56,330 --> 01:48:58,130 Edmond. The ultimate stick for Heron. 2211 01:48:59,210 --> 01:49:03,470 And their names rhyme make an big example of what happens to 2212 01:49:03,470 --> 01:49:07,270 the worst foes. And in a great, like generous 2213 01:49:07,270 --> 01:49:08,870 example of what happened to the best allies. 2214 01:49:09,270 --> 01:49:12,430 Again, if we if I again lean into Meg or he totally didn't 2215 01:49:12,430 --> 01:49:14,870 get this Meg or totally didn't understand this. 2216 01:49:15,150 --> 01:49:17,430 And it's when you lay it out like this, it totally makes 2217 01:49:17,430 --> 01:49:18,510 sense. It's like, Oh yeah, of course 2218 01:49:18,510 --> 01:49:19,750 that's intuitive. It makes sense. 2219 01:49:19,830 --> 01:49:22,790 But Meg or no, he just all sticks. 2220 01:49:22,870 --> 01:49:27,430 No carrots for Meg, or the only carrots for Meg or came like, 2221 01:49:28,700 --> 01:49:32,260 and very rare opportunities like when his wives were pregnant, he 2222 01:49:32,260 --> 01:49:35,060 got really happy and then they gave birth to monstrosities. 2223 01:49:35,060 --> 01:49:38,380 And he wasn't. That's what he gets for being 2224 01:49:38,380 --> 01:49:42,860 happy. Oops, yeah, And Nina says it's 2225 01:49:42,860 --> 01:49:44,900 an encouragement to everyone else in Westeros. 2226 01:49:44,900 --> 01:49:46,460 It's still very early in the conquest. 2227 01:49:46,460 --> 01:49:50,220 Like this is Aegon's, the first domino in terms of the the the 2228 01:49:50,220 --> 01:49:53,980 larger dominoes meaning the kingdoms rather than the smaller 2229 01:49:53,980 --> 01:49:55,620 dominoes of the river Lords within. 2230 01:49:57,040 --> 01:49:58,320 Yeah. So no one else in Westeros would 2231 01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:00,960 have really had this strong idea of the Targaryens. 2232 01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:03,280 They were forming an idea of them. 2233 01:50:03,480 --> 01:50:05,520 They would have had an idea of them living on Dragons son and 2234 01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:07,600 all that. Like these weird former 2235 01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:10,120 Valyrians living on their island with their Dragons. 2236 01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:12,240 Like what are they doing there But now But they didn't have an 2237 01:50:12,240 --> 01:50:14,400 idea of them as conqueror. This is this is looking at them 2238 01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:17,240 in a whole new light. In some ways it would be like of 2239 01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:19,640 course they're doing this. They're descendants of the 2240 01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:21,600 Valyrian freehold which conquered you know half the 2241 01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:23,200 world. So it makes sense that these 2242 01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:26,640 these guys would do that, but that's very specific and vague 2243 01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:29,760 or very unspecific and vague thing to believe about a family 2244 01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:31,080 here. It is actually coming. 2245 01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:33,640 And yeah, Aegon wasn't just burning everything to the 2246 01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:36,840 ground. He was building a new feudal 2247 01:50:36,840 --> 01:50:39,800 structure. He was in creating new titles. 2248 01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:41,720 He'd already created the small council. 2249 01:50:42,240 --> 01:50:43,840 Now he's creating Lords Paramount. 2250 01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:45,720 Pretty soon he's going to start making Wardens. 2251 01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:50,560 Yeah, so it's it's did. He build the the King's room. 2252 01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:54,910 No, that was your Harry's Okay. Yeah, there were roads, but they 2253 01:50:54,910 --> 01:50:58,590 were just the places people traveled and they had been, you 2254 01:50:58,590 --> 01:51:01,430 know, they had become roads because they were traveled. 2255 01:51:01,430 --> 01:51:03,550 They weren't paved. But he did build King's Landing. 2256 01:51:03,550 --> 01:51:06,670 Yeah. And I imagine here and there at 2257 01:51:06,670 --> 01:51:10,150 least, maybe nothing is extravagant or obvious, but I 2258 01:51:10,150 --> 01:51:11,510 bet he's building infrastructure. 2259 01:51:11,710 --> 01:51:14,750 Yeah, some ways, yeah, certainly more of that came later. 2260 01:51:14,750 --> 01:51:18,030 But yes, definitely there was some he did really. 2261 01:51:18,030 --> 01:51:20,510 He was 35 years so and. He was preserving 2262 01:51:20,510 --> 01:51:22,710 infrastructure, yes, Yes, He was preserving, yes. 2263 01:51:22,710 --> 01:51:24,750 He was trying not to destroy too much of what was there. 2264 01:51:25,270 --> 01:51:29,510 Absolutely. Surely several River Lords 2265 01:51:29,510 --> 01:51:32,630 regretted not being the first. Like, oh man, if we had turned 2266 01:51:32,630 --> 01:51:35,390 first, we could be Lord Paramount, could have been, 2267 01:51:35,510 --> 01:51:36,990 could have been me instead of Lord Edmond. 2268 01:51:37,710 --> 01:51:41,630 And he may have been aware if Agon was really on top of his 2269 01:51:41,630 --> 01:51:44,190 game, which it seems like he probably was. 2270 01:51:44,430 --> 01:51:50,190 He may have been aware of how much the river lands had been a 2271 01:51:50,190 --> 01:51:53,590 place of chaos and of constantly throwing off rulers. 2272 01:51:53,590 --> 01:51:57,150 And he knew that going in and was like, I'm going to make sure 2273 01:51:57,150 --> 01:52:00,510 to do this the right way, in a way that will not inflame these 2274 01:52:00,510 --> 01:52:04,430 old grievances. He might tread carefully while 2275 01:52:04,430 --> 01:52:06,790 also projecting this extreme confidence and power. 2276 01:52:08,270 --> 01:52:12,430 Nina's flat out says, Calling the tullies, making the tullies 2277 01:52:12,430 --> 01:52:14,870 the new overlords, the Riverlands was political genius. 2278 01:52:15,190 --> 01:52:18,190 By raising them to paramount status, Aegon demonstrated that 2279 01:52:18,190 --> 01:52:20,430 he would not be another Arlen the Third or Harwin horror, 2280 01:52:20,430 --> 01:52:22,510 scooping up the Riverlands and stuffing the region in his own 2281 01:52:22,510 --> 01:52:24,070 pocket. He would give the river Lords a 2282 01:52:24,070 --> 01:52:26,390 sense of independence, at least in the context of his own feudal 2283 01:52:26,390 --> 01:52:28,190 realm. They would be ruled not by some 2284 01:52:28,190 --> 01:52:31,130 foreign king and Storm Zander Orkmont, but from the heart of 2285 01:52:31,130 --> 01:52:34,170 the River Lands itself and from a family with ancient standing 2286 01:52:34,170 --> 01:52:35,930 in the region. One that had handled themselves 2287 01:52:35,930 --> 01:52:37,690 pretty well. Like they were at the forefront 2288 01:52:37,690 --> 01:52:41,010 of a lot of these efforts to throw out unworthy kings. 2289 01:52:41,690 --> 01:52:45,810 And they were at the front of this effort to support one that 2290 01:52:45,810 --> 01:52:48,250 seemed worthy. So it was an incredibly powerful 2291 01:52:48,250 --> 01:52:51,130 way to secure buy in to the brand new regime the Targaryens 2292 01:52:51,130 --> 01:52:53,410 were creating. Aegon was openly stating his 2293 01:52:53,410 --> 01:52:56,850 intention to let the River Lands govern itself, something none of 2294 01:52:56,850 --> 01:52:58,330 their previous conquerors have been willing to do. 2295 01:52:58,790 --> 01:53:01,550 So yeah, again, that's the whole responsibility versus rule 2296 01:53:01,550 --> 01:53:05,510 versus this is mine versus I'm gonna manage this well, you 2297 01:53:05,510 --> 01:53:09,710 know, like a leader versus a tyrant, that kind of thing. 2298 01:53:09,750 --> 01:53:11,630 Or even rather than. I'm gonna manage this well. 2299 01:53:11,630 --> 01:53:13,430 We're gonna manage this well, Yes. 2300 01:53:13,430 --> 01:53:14,870 Yes. And he would probably be careful 2301 01:53:14,870 --> 01:53:18,350 to phrase things a certain way. He would be diplomatic about it, 2302 01:53:18,350 --> 01:53:21,550 knowing the the powder keg that he's dealing with. 2303 01:53:22,390 --> 01:53:24,750 And he balanced power pretty well in a way that, yeah, the 2304 01:53:24,750 --> 01:53:29,500 tallies had never been king, so it would be harder for them to 2305 01:53:29,860 --> 01:53:34,220 get support to against the Targaryens. 2306 01:53:34,620 --> 01:53:37,660 Not only are they did they get their power from the Targaryens. 2307 01:53:37,660 --> 01:53:39,100 The power kind of depends on the Targaryens. 2308 01:53:39,100 --> 01:53:41,580 It's harder for them to go against them, but they don't 2309 01:53:41,580 --> 01:53:46,580 have this longstanding pride or or subservience from other 2310 01:53:46,580 --> 01:53:48,220 houses that have followed them into battle before. 2311 01:53:49,280 --> 01:53:51,200 Kind of like the Starks, yes, Right, the. 2312 01:53:51,200 --> 01:53:53,720 Starks wasn't that hard for the Starks to get all their 2313 01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,480 bannermen to rally with them against the Targaryens because 2314 01:53:56,480 --> 01:53:59,760 they were sort of established beyond the Targaryens, yes, but 2315 01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:01,480 the toll isn't quite have that angle. 2316 01:54:01,480 --> 01:54:04,240 So they're not motivated to go against Targaryens because the 2317 01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:06,640 Targaryens are their friends and gave them the power, and they 2318 01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:09,000 have less ability to go against them because they can't. 2319 01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:12,260 All these other people are. Begrudgingly accepting them in 2320 01:54:12,260 --> 01:54:14,140 the 1st place, You know that's something that Agon or any 2321 01:54:14,140 --> 01:54:16,500 conquer cannot replicate. You can't go in and beat the 2322 01:54:16,500 --> 01:54:21,220 Gardeners and immediately get the same level of loyalty from 2323 01:54:21,220 --> 01:54:23,500 houses that have followed the Gardeners for 8000 years. 2324 01:54:23,580 --> 01:54:24,820 You can prove you're stronger than them. 2325 01:54:24,820 --> 01:54:27,260 That does not going to make them love you or be willing to go the 2326 01:54:27,260 --> 01:54:29,020 extra mile for you. Because the gardeners, another 2327 01:54:29,020 --> 01:54:32,620 example, they were willing to face this guy, this Agon and his 2328 01:54:32,620 --> 01:54:35,620 sisters because the Gardeners have been their kings for so 2329 01:54:35,620 --> 01:54:36,860 long and that's who they followed. 2330 01:54:37,860 --> 01:54:40,930 Yeah, Aegon wants to control the people that have that control, 2331 01:54:40,930 --> 01:54:44,890 not destroy that, because then that you get to he gets to 2332 01:54:44,890 --> 01:54:48,050 benefit from that loyalty, using the Gardeners as a conduit. 2333 01:54:48,050 --> 01:54:50,090 Like he may have wanted to destroy the Gardeners because 2334 01:54:50,090 --> 01:54:52,570 they were too powerful, but he might have preferred to keep 2335 01:54:52,570 --> 01:54:55,210 them in place to make ruling the reach easier. 2336 01:54:55,410 --> 01:54:58,530 On the other hand, it creates the potential that they can use 2337 01:54:58,530 --> 01:55:00,570 that support against you. Whereas in the case of the 2338 01:55:00,570 --> 01:55:04,920 Tullys or the Tyrells, no, they don't have that 8000 years of 2339 01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:07,880 loyalty built up where people will be like we want a native 2340 01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:10,440 ruler that we followed before that just doesn't exist. 2341 01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:13,080 With the Tullys, they're proud, but not that proud. 2342 01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:19,440 And with Heron Hall's burning a few other things there, we 2343 01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:21,800 discussed the value of the lesson and the symbolism last 2344 01:55:21,800 --> 01:55:22,560 time. But there's a few other 2345 01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:24,640 intriguing decisions to be made during the aftermath. 2346 01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:28,560 Even though Heron was gone and the castle was badly damaged, it 2347 01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:32,330 was still quite functional. That meant possible risk. 2348 01:55:32,330 --> 01:55:35,290 It's only two weeks ride from King's Landing, his new capital. 2349 01:55:35,290 --> 01:55:38,530 So like, yeah, it's a little might be a little bit of a risk 2350 01:55:38,530 --> 01:55:41,170 for himself or his descendants. Maybe not so much him, but his 2351 01:55:41,170 --> 01:55:42,850 descendants. If someone if Heron Hall's a big 2352 01:55:42,850 --> 01:55:45,850 powerful seat, then it could challenge his powerful seat 2353 01:55:45,850 --> 01:55:49,020 close by. Apparently he judged the risk 2354 01:55:49,020 --> 01:55:52,340 worthwhile, or else he might have declined to allow anyone to 2355 01:55:52,340 --> 01:55:54,660 live there. Like he could have easily made 2356 01:55:54,660 --> 01:55:57,420 the castle indefensible with a little more work, like just take 2357 01:55:57,420 --> 01:56:00,580 down part of the walls and so there's a huge gap in the walls. 2358 01:56:00,580 --> 01:56:02,060 It's like make it less defensible. 2359 01:56:02,060 --> 01:56:04,420 Like he didn't destroy the walls, he melted the towers. 2360 01:56:04,420 --> 01:56:05,660 But they're still standing, right? 2361 01:56:07,260 --> 01:56:09,620 It's still a castle that still works that way. 2362 01:56:09,660 --> 01:56:11,420 So does the basic things a castle can do. 2363 01:56:11,420 --> 01:56:14,300 Keep people in and out. It has gates and doors and 2364 01:56:14,420 --> 01:56:15,940 things like that. Those all still work. 2365 01:56:16,220 --> 01:56:19,500 The walls are still high. Right, he people and supplies, 2366 01:56:19,500 --> 01:56:21,380 if you will. It's got, you know, farmland 2367 01:56:21,380 --> 01:56:24,540 surrounding it and storage rooms for grain and you know, armories 2368 01:56:24,540 --> 01:56:25,820 for soldiers and everything. So. 2369 01:56:25,940 --> 01:56:28,380 So if he wanted to reduce its effectiveness as a fortress, it 2370 01:56:28,380 --> 01:56:30,500 would have been pretty easy. It was ordered that done and it 2371 01:56:30,820 --> 01:56:33,260 would have been done. But he decided to leave it the 2372 01:56:33,260 --> 01:56:36,620 way it was and reappointed. Which something we'll come to in 2373 01:56:36,620 --> 01:56:39,660 a minute. Maybe he decided to curse it. 2374 01:56:39,980 --> 01:56:42,260 Maybe he decided to curse it. That's where the curse came 2375 01:56:42,260 --> 01:56:43,660 from. Aegon put it on there. 2376 01:56:43,900 --> 01:56:45,260 No one knew about that. He sent. 2377 01:56:45,580 --> 01:56:48,300 He sent Vasenia in there with some with a spell book and was 2378 01:56:48,300 --> 01:56:50,220 like, hey, go. Ahead, it took a while to curse 2379 01:56:50,220 --> 01:56:54,660 the whole place. One tower at a time. 2380 01:56:55,500 --> 01:56:59,740 So what happened later, after Robert Rebellion was the same 2381 01:56:59,740 --> 01:57:01,820 thing was happening. If you take enough land away 2382 01:57:01,820 --> 01:57:04,220 from Heron Hall, take enough of its supporting lands away from 2383 01:57:04,220 --> 01:57:06,420 it, it becomes a white elephant. It can't support itself. 2384 01:57:06,420 --> 01:57:08,180 And then then it's not a threat. It's like, well, they're too 2385 01:57:08,180 --> 01:57:12,940 busy with upkeep to mount to a rebellion that I'd say Robert 2386 01:57:12,940 --> 01:57:14,980 did that, but really it was probably John Aaron that did 2387 01:57:14,980 --> 01:57:17,260 that. It was under Robert's reign that 2388 01:57:17,260 --> 01:57:20,860 that happened, so. If Robert did that, he did that 2389 01:57:20,860 --> 01:57:22,820 on accident. Yeah, he may have. 2390 01:57:22,900 --> 01:57:25,060 Yeah, you did it because little fear convinced him or something. 2391 01:57:25,060 --> 01:57:27,660 I don't know. It's it's like house poor. 2392 01:57:27,660 --> 01:57:29,060 It's the modern equivalent of being house poor. 2393 01:57:29,060 --> 01:57:31,580 You may you force the Lord of Aaron Hall to be house poor by 2394 01:57:31,580 --> 01:57:33,420 reducing their incomes to the point where they can't afford 2395 01:57:33,420 --> 01:57:35,780 the upkeep of the place. I mean, house poor. 2396 01:57:35,780 --> 01:57:38,940 If you're not familiar with that term, it's it's You own a house 2397 01:57:38,940 --> 01:57:42,130 that you can't really afford. It's not uncommon. 2398 01:57:42,930 --> 01:57:43,970 Yeah, I've thought about that a lot. 2399 01:57:43,970 --> 01:57:46,850 If someone just gave me a 20 dollar, $20 million mansion, 2400 01:57:46,850 --> 01:57:51,050 like I can't afford the heating bill, the taxes, the, you know, 2401 01:57:51,050 --> 01:57:53,890 the, I'm sure something like that comes with gardeners and 2402 01:57:53,890 --> 01:57:56,530 all sorts of infrastructure. And same thing with Heron Hall. 2403 01:57:56,530 --> 01:58:00,250 You'd have all sorts of you could, you could have it, but 2404 01:58:00,250 --> 01:58:02,730 you couldn't fully man it. Littlefinger literally says that 2405 01:58:02,730 --> 01:58:04,570 about the heating bill. To rent it out, Sean, I think 2406 01:58:04,570 --> 01:58:07,090 you'd be your best by either just immediately resell it or 2407 01:58:07,090 --> 01:58:08,320 you do like. Airbnb. 2408 01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:10,720 It would be a huge hassle for you. 2409 01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,840 Airbnb in Westeros is HEIR. It's Airbnb. 2410 01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:21,920 Yeah, Littlefinger, you literally pointed out about that 2411 01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:24,160 to Santa. Like the cost of heating hair 2412 01:58:24,160 --> 01:58:26,840 and hall is absurd, like just the amount of firewood you need 2413 01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:28,800 to heat that place. Like the ceilings are so 2414 01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:30,600 freaking high. Like that's. 2415 01:58:30,720 --> 01:58:33,120 You know, I never thought of this parallel, but that's what's 2416 01:58:33,120 --> 01:58:35,120 happening at the Wall in the north, right? 2417 01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:37,120 There's well, just shut those towers down. 2418 01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:39,600 We don't have enough people or resources to keep that going. 2419 01:58:39,600 --> 01:58:42,120 And the Erie, They shut down the Erie because it gets too cold in 2420 01:58:42,120 --> 01:58:44,080 the winter. They just, it's like it's a 2421 01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:47,520 summer, it's a summer home. Imagine that being a summer 2422 01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:49,000 home. That fancy one of the fanciest 2423 01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:55,240 places in the world. Yep, and Lord Edmond is going to 2424 01:58:55,240 --> 01:58:58,600 prove to be pretty competent. Not only is he a good choice 2425 01:58:58,600 --> 01:59:02,080 politically and to send a message to other Lords about 2426 01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:05,680 rewards and and coming over to Egon side, but apparently he's 2427 01:59:05,680 --> 01:59:11,280 just a pretty competent guy. After Lord Oris's tenure as 2428 01:59:11,280 --> 01:59:13,840 Hand, Edmond will be the next one. 2429 01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:15,160 So that's that's pretty interesting. 2430 01:59:15,160 --> 01:59:16,240 So he's going to be hand to the King. 2431 01:59:16,400 --> 01:59:19,200 So this this relationship is going to end up paying dividends 2432 01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:23,070 for both of them, although Edmond won't actually be hand to 2433 01:59:23,070 --> 01:59:25,870 the King for a long time, but we'll get to that later when the 2434 01:59:25,870 --> 01:59:28,670 time comes. Okay, Our last small section 2435 01:59:28,670 --> 01:59:30,830 today is the new house in Heron Hall. 2436 01:59:32,510 --> 01:59:34,510 One thing that distinguished the Ironborn conquerors from the 2437 01:59:34,510 --> 01:59:36,470 Storm Kings and even the Targaryens is that they were the 2438 01:59:36,470 --> 01:59:38,390 only ones who intended to make it their capital. 2439 01:59:38,590 --> 01:59:41,470 Yes. The River lands were ruled from 2440 01:59:41,470 --> 01:59:44,350 the Storm Lands in the time of Arrick and Arlen and all their 2441 01:59:44,350 --> 01:59:51,000 descendants. And Harwin didn't make the give 2442 01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:54,600 the River lands, you know much pride or or basically made it 2443 01:59:54,600 --> 01:59:57,320 his. But he did intend to really make 2444 01:59:57,320 --> 01:59:58,800 it his. He intended to move his seat of 2445 01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:00,800 power from the Iron Islands to there because it's, you know, 2446 02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:04,760 it's hard to rule from the islands which is a gun would 2447 02:00:04,760 --> 02:00:06,320 agree like yes. That's why we didn't put our 2448 02:00:06,320 --> 02:00:09,120 capital at Dragonstone. Yes, it's a similar kind of 2449 02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:14,040 problem. So he wanted to Harwin, and his 2450 02:00:14,040 --> 02:00:16,910 father and grandfather moved. Their seat of power from the 2451 02:00:16,910 --> 02:00:20,190 Iron Island to the River Lands. Halleck ruled from Fair Market, 2452 02:00:20,190 --> 02:00:24,190 which is kind of like Agon would have been kind of like if Agon 2453 02:00:24,190 --> 02:00:26,590 had just continued to rule from the Agon Fort instead of 2454 02:00:26,590 --> 02:00:29,190 expanding it. Maybe he intended to make 2455 02:00:29,190 --> 02:00:32,150 Herron's Town, which became Herron's Harrington. 2456 02:00:32,150 --> 02:00:35,550 And now that Herron's Town, which is made by Herron and 2457 02:00:35,550 --> 02:00:37,870 would have, maybe he would have intended to make it a King's 2458 02:00:37,870 --> 02:00:39,990 Landing size city. It was small. 2459 02:00:39,990 --> 02:00:42,680 It never got going, but that may have been his intent for the 2460 02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:46,160 long term, to really localize and centralize power in the 2461 02:00:46,160 --> 02:00:47,920 middle of the Riverlands, which makes sense. 2462 02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:49,840 Like Heron, that's actually smart. 2463 02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:54,840 As awful as he was, this was a good idea, but of course Aegon 2464 02:00:54,840 --> 02:00:57,800 destroyed it. Heron also, it's intended to 2465 02:00:57,800 --> 02:01:00,120 extend his realm beyond the Riverlands, which is why we 2466 02:01:00,120 --> 02:01:04,000 brought up the danger of having Heron Hall so close to King's 2467 02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:06,720 Landing. This is would have been an enemy 2468 02:01:06,720 --> 02:01:09,980 capital designed net for conquest. 2469 02:01:09,980 --> 02:01:15,540 This was a castle built to maintain future conquests that 2470 02:01:15,540 --> 02:01:20,140 never did take place. No matter how far he expanded, 2471 02:01:20,140 --> 02:01:22,220 Heron Hall would have remained his capital I would think. 2472 02:01:22,220 --> 02:01:23,860 Unless one of his descendants was like this. 2473 02:01:23,860 --> 02:01:28,860 Castle's dumb and said this is too expensive and my grand my 2474 02:01:28,860 --> 02:01:31,740 great great great grandfather was an idiot for making this 2475 02:01:31,740 --> 02:01:34,060 castle. It's too expensive either. 2476 02:01:34,340 --> 02:01:36,540 Although I don't think that's how it would have played out, 2477 02:01:36,540 --> 02:01:38,340 for what it's maybe not worth is, I think that. 2478 02:01:38,910 --> 02:01:41,110 That would have been justification for raiding more 2479 02:01:41,110 --> 02:01:44,230 lands and pillaging more value to pay for us is in order. 2480 02:01:44,590 --> 02:01:46,310 Yeah. Yep, so. 2481 02:01:46,310 --> 02:01:47,910 Just they never would have decided it's too expensive. 2482 02:01:47,910 --> 02:01:50,710 They just would have attacked more places to get to reap their 2483 02:01:50,710 --> 02:01:53,510 resources to maintain the expense to the point of reaching 2484 02:01:53,510 --> 02:01:55,750 ranging far and wide. It may have, may have, may have 2485 02:01:55,750 --> 02:01:58,750 come to the point where he was constantly sending his ships out 2486 02:01:58,910 --> 02:02:03,270 of of Westeros, just raiding Esos and maybe Sothorios for for 2487 02:02:03,270 --> 02:02:05,550 supplies. Because the Westerosi would be 2488 02:02:05,550 --> 02:02:09,140 like stop doing it to us. You're a big powerful king. 2489 02:02:09,140 --> 02:02:14,580 Go go overseas to do that. You know that's any better, but 2490 02:02:14,580 --> 02:02:19,580 it's better for them. So the longer noticed that the 2491 02:02:19,580 --> 02:02:21,540 the horrors I said they were making it their base, but they 2492 02:02:21,540 --> 02:02:25,180 were only in the River Lands for maybe a little more than two 2493 02:02:25,180 --> 02:02:29,220 generations. But two to three kings, at least 2494 02:02:29,220 --> 02:02:33,540 that's how you know. Depends on exactly what their 2495 02:02:33,540 --> 02:02:35,500 presence counts as. Certainly Heron was there for 2496 02:02:35,740 --> 02:02:40,140 multiple generations just building Heron Hall, but still 2497 02:02:40,140 --> 02:02:43,220 the the full transition of power wasn't complete, right? 2498 02:02:43,220 --> 02:02:46,100 There would have been more of a like a partly ruling back from 2499 02:02:46,100 --> 02:02:49,060 Orcamont, partly ruling from the Riverlands until the castle was 2500 02:02:49,060 --> 02:02:51,820 built, and it's it's not a certain thing. 2501 02:02:52,980 --> 02:02:56,460 So another example of a gun rewarding service came shortly 2502 02:02:56,460 --> 02:03:00,980 after he didn't give Heron Hall to a River Lord, which he might 2503 02:03:00,980 --> 02:03:04,230 have done, but he decided to give it to someone that he could 2504 02:03:04,230 --> 02:03:06,430 maybe more directly count on. Something more from someone more 2505 02:03:06,430 --> 02:03:10,150 familiar to him. Who is Quentin Coharis now? 2506 02:03:10,150 --> 02:03:12,830 Quentin Coharis? He did the right thing, or like 2507 02:03:12,830 --> 02:03:15,870 the politically expedient thing, he didn't make Quentin Coharis 2508 02:03:16,230 --> 02:03:18,270 Lord of the Riverlands. If that would have just been a 2509 02:03:18,270 --> 02:03:20,830 foreign ruler, even though he would have been king, it still 2510 02:03:20,830 --> 02:03:23,350 would have been a person that has no idea about this place, 2511 02:03:23,350 --> 02:03:27,630 has no back back story or history, no experience with the 2512 02:03:27,630 --> 02:03:29,310 Riverlands. Just wouldn't make much sense. 2513 02:03:29,310 --> 02:03:33,350 So Quentin Coharis had to be subject to Lord Tully like the 2514 02:03:33,350 --> 02:03:36,950 rest. Quentin Coheris was the master 2515 02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:40,390 at arms at the Red Keep. So he may have been the guy that 2516 02:03:40,390 --> 02:03:44,590 taught Aegon's father, and we believe he was an older man 2517 02:03:44,590 --> 02:03:46,470 because he had a grandchild at this point. 2518 02:03:46,670 --> 02:03:48,790 And the fact that grandson's going to inherit here and all 2519 02:03:49,470 --> 02:03:55,630 but he so that implies a certain level of closeness to Aegon and 2520 02:03:55,630 --> 02:03:57,910 and Auris as well. The guy who could give them or 2521 02:03:57,910 --> 02:04:00,250 one of the few people that could tell them what to do growing up, 2522 02:04:00,250 --> 02:04:01,930 like no, swing the sword, swing it harder. 2523 02:04:02,090 --> 02:04:07,450 You saw how like Kristen Cole and and Harwin strong, it's a 2524 02:04:07,450 --> 02:04:10,090 little different when you're training the the Princess, you 2525 02:04:10,090 --> 02:04:11,930 can actually, you have a different level of authority 2526 02:04:11,930 --> 02:04:13,370 over them because they have to listen to you because you're 2527 02:04:13,370 --> 02:04:14,850 teaching them how to fight and things like that. 2528 02:04:14,850 --> 02:04:17,810 So it's one of the few people that would have told Agon what 2529 02:04:17,810 --> 02:04:20,490 to do growing up. And so maybe it puts him in an 2530 02:04:20,490 --> 02:04:22,090 interesting position. I think I've talked a little 2531 02:04:22,090 --> 02:04:25,970 about this before, but I need to rehash it to show why this 2532 02:04:25,970 --> 02:04:28,690 reward is important and why this this transition is important. 2533 02:04:29,900 --> 02:04:32,540 And what makes sense for him to have gotten this reward? 2534 02:04:32,660 --> 02:04:35,300 Yes, yes, it's like them, his master at arms. 2535 02:04:35,300 --> 02:04:38,740 Like that's quite a promotion. Funny too, that he's not the 2536 02:04:38,740 --> 02:04:42,340 only master at arms to to get handed over hair and all. 2537 02:04:42,340 --> 02:04:45,340 One of Egg on the unworthy is going to have. 2538 02:04:45,380 --> 02:04:46,820 Part of the curse, Yeah, Yeah, right. 2539 02:04:48,420 --> 02:04:49,580 Just how it goes. Right. 2540 02:04:49,900 --> 02:04:52,820 So Nina made-up some house words for House Co Harris because they 2541 02:04:52,820 --> 02:04:54,220 don't have any. And it's blood for blood. 2542 02:04:54,260 --> 02:04:56,220 Good fitting for that. That's a it's a nice phrase. 2543 02:04:56,220 --> 02:04:58,580 And look at that. Sigil 4 skulls with those 2544 02:04:58,580 --> 02:05:02,800 flames. You wonder what those four 2545 02:05:02,800 --> 02:05:05,240 skulls indicate if it's just four skulls, because quartering 2546 02:05:05,240 --> 02:05:06,680 Shields is like a normal thing to do. 2547 02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:12,000 But one theory is that those represent aegons for herons. 4 2548 02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:14,880 dead sons that maybe have burned there, or two of them burned in 2549 02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:16,440 the ships, and two of them. And we don't even know he did. 2550 02:05:16,440 --> 02:05:17,440 He had four. He had at least four. 2551 02:05:17,440 --> 02:05:21,640 He may have had more than four. So this is clever as well. 2552 02:05:21,640 --> 02:05:22,840 Let me read what Nina wrote about it. 2553 02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:26,240 Aegon also cleverly handled the incorporation of Heron Hall into 2554 02:05:26,240 --> 02:05:28,760 his Virgin and Kingdom by giving the castle to his longtime 2555 02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:31,560 supporter and fellow Valyrian expatriate Quentin Coharis. 2556 02:05:32,040 --> 02:05:34,400 Aegon both installed a loyal Lieutenant in the area and 2557 02:05:34,400 --> 02:05:37,160 removed the taint of the horse from the geopolitical map. 2558 02:05:37,760 --> 02:05:40,160 Heron Hall would be neither a site of pilgrimage for 2559 02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:43,200 discontented ironborn nor an albatross around the neck of any 2560 02:05:43,200 --> 02:05:46,720 of the native river Lord families forced to rebuild it, 2561 02:05:46,720 --> 02:05:48,840 staff it, heat it, do all those other things. 2562 02:05:48,840 --> 02:05:52,200 It's expensive 2. By making the Coors is subject 2563 02:05:52,200 --> 02:05:54,840 to River Run, Agon removed any sense of royal dominance from 2564 02:05:54,840 --> 02:05:57,040 Heron Halls, a castle. It's now subject to a much 2565 02:05:57,040 --> 02:05:59,080 smaller castle. So it's no longer the seed of 2566 02:05:59,080 --> 02:06:01,640 kings, even though Tywin will call it that later when he's 2567 02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:06,040 upset. And how it was given to Jano 2568 02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:08,200 Slint. He's offended that Jano Slint 2569 02:06:08,200 --> 02:06:10,440 got is like, that's a butcher. You can't give the seed of kings 2570 02:06:10,440 --> 02:06:15,370 to a butcher. Tywin's like noble mind was just 2571 02:06:15,370 --> 02:06:18,250 so offended by that his his personalities couldn't handle 2572 02:06:18,250 --> 02:06:20,690 such an up jump. Such a large jumping up of 2573 02:06:20,690 --> 02:06:22,090 status like this shouldn't happen. 2574 02:06:23,130 --> 02:06:25,890 Even he understood how crappy Channos was. 2575 02:06:28,330 --> 02:06:33,970 So the Coheris is could could be trusted to ensure that this huge 2576 02:06:34,210 --> 02:06:38,730 castle remain loyal to the crown, and would quietly remind 2577 02:06:38,730 --> 02:06:42,950 the Tullys that you know if there's at least one castle, a 2578 02:06:42,950 --> 02:06:46,110 big one in the river lands that would definitely side with the 2579 02:06:46,110 --> 02:06:48,670 Targaryens. That if anything went wrong, 2580 02:06:48,950 --> 02:06:51,710 this is someone in their midst that would not be on their side, 2581 02:06:51,990 --> 02:06:53,430 Someone that would support the royal side. 2582 02:06:54,750 --> 02:06:59,430 And to that end, geographically located well, right, yes, yes. 2583 02:06:59,430 --> 02:07:02,790 It's on their end towards so it would be much easier for them to 2584 02:07:02,790 --> 02:07:05,990 move from Kings Laney. To Heron Hall, then to the rest 2585 02:07:05,990 --> 02:07:08,910 of the Riverlands, rather than that being a barrier to the rest 2586 02:07:08,910 --> 02:07:10,510 of Riverland. So the Riverlands moving to 2587 02:07:10,510 --> 02:07:12,390 there and then launching out towards King's Landing. 2588 02:07:12,390 --> 02:07:14,510 So that's very key geographically. 2589 02:07:14,910 --> 02:07:17,270 Sean has a fun note here that says what happened to the 2590 02:07:17,270 --> 02:07:19,870 Coharises and then and then a second note under it says, oh 2591 02:07:20,190 --> 02:07:23,270 sheesh. So yeah, we'll get to that. 2592 02:07:23,270 --> 02:07:26,430 It happens during the reign of Anies, so the next king. 2593 02:07:26,430 --> 02:07:28,990 But yeah, we've got a little 30 more years to get to before the 2594 02:07:28,990 --> 02:07:31,910 end of the Coharises. But yeah, it's not a it's not a 2595 02:07:31,910 --> 02:07:35,000 happy tail. We also don't know what Castle, 2596 02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:38,080 how strong held at this point. It's a it's an enduring mystery 2597 02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:40,920 what Castle did how strong rule. Whatever it is, it might not be 2598 02:07:40,920 --> 02:07:43,640 there anymore because well, they're not there anymore. 2599 02:07:43,920 --> 02:07:47,400 But they existed and were prominent prior to this and then 2600 02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:50,680 eventually they got Aaron Hall. So we're not really there's 2601 02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:52,720 something missing here in the history. 2602 02:07:54,440 --> 02:07:57,840 Nina thinks they're they're they're sigil, which is the 3/4 2603 02:07:57,840 --> 02:08:00,360 of the Trident. Well, three colors, which are 2604 02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:03,770 the three forks of the Trident, reflects the idea that they're 2605 02:08:03,770 --> 02:08:07,050 somewhere near the the front. Like where before the Trident 2606 02:08:07,050 --> 02:08:10,970 forks away, something near the where the branches joined 2607 02:08:10,970 --> 02:08:13,370 together and strong could refer to the current, where the 2608 02:08:13,370 --> 02:08:15,930 current would be the strongest, where it flows out into the into 2609 02:08:15,930 --> 02:08:19,450 the Bay, into the ocean. But it's still that's that's a 2610 02:08:19,450 --> 02:08:20,650 good guess. But it is a guess. 2611 02:08:21,810 --> 02:08:24,970 This also may have been when he defined what was Riverlands and 2612 02:08:24,970 --> 02:08:27,650 what was crown lands when he drew those borders, or around 2613 02:08:27,650 --> 02:08:29,050 this time. If he didn't do that, that do it 2614 02:08:29,050 --> 02:08:31,370 and do it now. He did it shortly after the 2615 02:08:31,370 --> 02:08:34,390 conquest, I assume because Maiden Pool we we pointed out 2616 02:08:34,390 --> 02:08:38,030 that Maiden Pool was claimed by Heron. 2617 02:08:38,110 --> 02:08:40,510 Well it was ruled by Heron, but it had formerly been part of the 2618 02:08:40,510 --> 02:08:42,150 Riverlands, but it's kind of on the border. 2619 02:08:42,390 --> 02:08:43,830 So they could have gone either way. 2620 02:08:44,150 --> 02:08:47,710 But Maiden Pool is definitely in the Riverlands, was then is now, 2621 02:08:48,430 --> 02:08:50,790 and yeah, and it's basically the border. 2622 02:08:52,270 --> 02:08:55,070 What would be Stormlands versus the Crownlands because the 2623 02:08:55,070 --> 02:08:57,070 Crownlands hadn't been defined. So not only did the Riverlands 2624 02:08:57,070 --> 02:08:59,070 border had to be defined, but sort of the Stormlands border 2625 02:08:59,430 --> 02:09:01,710 and the Stormlands still hasn't been settled at this point. 2626 02:09:02,120 --> 02:09:05,960 This is how fast it happened that Auris and Rainey's went S 2627 02:09:05,960 --> 02:09:07,480 to confront Argalac the Arrogant. 2628 02:09:07,480 --> 02:09:14,280 At the same time Agon went to confront Heron and our Galac has 2629 02:09:14,280 --> 02:09:18,640 already learned what happened to Heron before he comes to grips 2630 02:09:18,640 --> 02:09:20,840 with Oris and Rainey's. That's how fast it happens. 2631 02:09:20,840 --> 02:09:26,000 So he's able to learn what happened to Heron and it affects 2632 02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:30,510 his strategy in terms of his battle disposition. 2633 02:09:30,510 --> 02:09:32,150 So. So that's one reason to think 2634 02:09:32,150 --> 02:09:34,910 that maybe some of this was handled later because the border 2635 02:09:34,910 --> 02:09:37,150 with the storm land couldn't be fixed yet until that whole that 2636 02:09:37,150 --> 02:09:38,990 war, that part of the war was was was done. 2637 02:09:39,350 --> 02:09:42,910 We will detail that in our episode on the battle of the 2638 02:09:42,910 --> 02:09:47,430 last storm which is going to be a patrons bonus episode with 2639 02:09:47,430 --> 02:09:51,390 guest Jim Mcgeehan, something like a lawyer, our resident 2640 02:09:51,590 --> 02:09:56,670 battle expert. Yeah, Okay. 2641 02:09:56,670 --> 02:10:00,160 So we're, we have a section on the new Iron Islands. 2642 02:10:00,160 --> 02:10:01,680 We're going to get to it another time. 2643 02:10:01,680 --> 02:10:03,800 How they're reformed where we probably won't get to that next 2644 02:10:03,800 --> 02:10:04,960 time. I think we're going to pivot to 2645 02:10:04,960 --> 02:10:08,840 Vasenia and the Veil, which we can do very alliteratively. 2646 02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:13,320 Vasenia and Vegar invade the veil or maybe versus the veil. 2647 02:10:13,320 --> 02:10:18,880 I'll work on that working title. Yeah, Sean, people are 2648 02:10:18,880 --> 02:10:21,640 requesting a cat. The chat requests a cat. 2649 02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:27,030 Now is the time, All right, now is the time. 2650 02:10:27,030 --> 02:10:31,350 In the meantime, I will get into the outro, because there wasn't 2651 02:10:31,350 --> 02:10:34,430 centuries, if not eons of bad blood between the River Lords 2652 02:10:34,430 --> 02:10:36,750 and the Targaryens as there was between themselves and their 2653 02:10:36,750 --> 02:10:38,470 neighbors. Targaryen rule was almost 2654 02:10:38,470 --> 02:10:40,950 certainly a fantastic development for the common folk. 2655 02:10:40,950 --> 02:10:44,990 Finally someone that would keep them in line, and finally 2656 02:10:44,990 --> 02:10:48,110 someone strong enough to keep the river Lords from killing 2657 02:10:48,110 --> 02:10:51,350 each other. Which meant, yes, common folk 2658 02:10:51,350 --> 02:10:57,930 could farm and hang out and do their thing without as much risk 2659 02:10:58,410 --> 02:11:01,290 of being murdered suddenly or called into a war. 2660 02:11:02,130 --> 02:11:04,770 If we look far forward, that seems to stick it. 2661 02:11:04,770 --> 02:11:08,210 It held for quite a while. The Riverlands does unite for 2662 02:11:08,210 --> 02:11:11,490 King Rob, right? They they're actually more 2663 02:11:11,490 --> 02:11:16,170 united than they ever were, partly because they got to be at 2664 02:11:16,170 --> 02:11:19,810 peace with each other for several centuries. 2665 02:11:19,810 --> 02:11:24,950 That really undid a lot of this longstanding grudge bearing that 2666 02:11:24,950 --> 02:11:30,190 was the norm in the Riverlands. Like when Rob Rose Bracken and 2667 02:11:30,190 --> 02:11:35,110 Blackwood both supported him. That's something that even 2668 02:11:35,110 --> 02:11:37,590 Katlin notes at the time. Even if she's disappointed that 2669 02:11:37,590 --> 02:11:40,390 this is happening, she doesn't want them to name him King. 2670 02:11:40,630 --> 02:11:42,990 She's smart enough to see that this isn't going to end well, 2671 02:11:44,450 --> 02:11:47,730 even Despite that she happens to take note of Bracken and 2672 02:11:47,730 --> 02:11:50,050 Blackwood rising together. Look man, I really have no 2673 02:11:50,050 --> 02:11:52,290 choice, no chance in stopping this if even Bracken and 2674 02:11:52,290 --> 02:11:55,490 Blackwood are united on it. But I think part of that unity 2675 02:11:55,490 --> 02:11:59,450 comes from the conquest being united and no longer being left 2676 02:11:59,450 --> 02:12:01,730 to their own devices, which inevitably leads to them 2677 02:12:01,730 --> 02:12:08,410 fighting a forced peace kept things enabled, a better future 2678 02:12:08,810 --> 02:12:11,770 and more unity When things changed. 2679 02:12:12,420 --> 02:12:15,380 Kitty has arrived. This is yet another reason to 2680 02:12:15,380 --> 02:12:19,620 watch our episodes, or at least flip on the video when there's 2681 02:12:19,620 --> 02:12:21,860 something worth seeing. Shawn and I might not be worth 2682 02:12:21,860 --> 02:12:28,060 seeing, but this cat is, yeah. She is. 2683 02:12:28,460 --> 02:12:31,180 She's the biggest of the three. Yeah. 2684 02:12:31,340 --> 02:12:33,940 Is that Korra? No, that's not Korra. 2685 02:12:33,940 --> 02:12:34,500 This is tough. Sorry. 2686 02:12:34,500 --> 02:12:36,980 Yeah, I couldn't see. Yeah, they look kind of similar. 2687 02:12:36,980 --> 02:12:38,760 Compare them to. I don't know. 2688 02:12:38,760 --> 02:12:41,160 A year ago when Sean started showing his kittens off. 2689 02:12:41,160 --> 02:12:45,960 Yeah, yeah, I know. People are requesting like, Ziz 2690 02:12:45,960 --> 02:12:47,960 needs a cat too. And I'm like, I don't wanna wake 2691 02:12:47,960 --> 02:12:50,080 up our cats. I have Xerxes sleeping next to 2692 02:12:50,080 --> 02:12:52,550 me and I don't. That feels so bad to wake him 2693 02:12:52,550 --> 02:12:53,230 up. Yeah. 2694 02:12:53,230 --> 02:12:55,030 Maybe next time we can try to make that more of a regular 2695 02:12:55,030 --> 02:12:55,950 thing. Now that we're trying to be 2696 02:12:55,950 --> 02:12:57,550 visual more often. Maybe the cat we're. 2697 02:12:57,750 --> 02:12:59,190 Trying to bring a cat? We'll be seen. 2698 02:13:00,350 --> 02:13:02,870 She was just sitting right outside the door and then 2699 02:13:02,870 --> 02:13:04,390 scampered off when I tried to pick her up. 2700 02:13:06,350 --> 02:13:10,030 Our trivia question. Who was the first one to say 2701 02:13:10,030 --> 02:13:12,710 blood and fire To say blood and fire out loud? 2702 02:13:13,550 --> 02:13:15,630 Anyone have any? Were there any guesses? 2703 02:13:16,320 --> 02:13:18,880 The answer is OSHA of all people. 2704 02:13:18,880 --> 02:13:20,600 So yes, OSHA. Nice. 2705 02:13:20,640 --> 02:13:24,440 It is OSHA. We'll also guest called Rogo and 2706 02:13:25,600 --> 02:13:29,720 Danny, and I think those were the main guesses right on. 2707 02:13:31,080 --> 02:13:33,560 And yeah, it's OSHA, and it comes during the discussion on 2708 02:13:33,560 --> 02:13:38,000 the comet. Bran asks OSHA what she thinks 2709 02:13:38,000 --> 02:13:41,080 of what Maestra Lewin said about the comet, and she kind of 2710 02:13:41,080 --> 02:13:45,400 scoffs and is like, it means blood and fire, boy, and none of 2711 02:13:45,400 --> 02:13:47,000 it good. You know, like, well, I think we 2712 02:13:47,000 --> 02:13:48,720 already knew it wasn't good when you said blood and fire. 2713 02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:52,840 But she wanted to reemphasize Ashea is bringing me a feline 2714 02:13:52,840 --> 02:13:55,680 delivery. We've got a little Casanova 2715 02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:59,760 coming in, and not that little, really, but he's little for a 2716 02:14:00,440 --> 02:14:02,560 little for a being large for a cat. 2717 02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:06,720 I don't know. Look at this boy. 2718 02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:09,360 He's a good boy. Yes, Casanova. 2719 02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:14,030 So yeah, the answer was OSHA. And we'll have another trivia 2720 02:14:14,030 --> 02:14:16,790 question for you next week. We'll pick off with Visenia and 2721 02:14:16,790 --> 02:14:20,990 Vegar and the veil and that invasion and all the things that 2722 02:14:21,190 --> 02:14:24,670 involves whether V words gonna sneak in there. 2723 02:14:25,750 --> 02:14:27,670 We'll have a bunch of trivia questions for you a few days 2724 02:14:27,670 --> 02:14:29,030 after that. That's true. 2725 02:14:29,350 --> 02:14:31,350 Think about that. Remember that I mentioned it? 2726 02:14:31,550 --> 02:14:37,910 Discord, September 26th. So that is not our we will have 2727 02:14:37,910 --> 02:14:39,670 one more stream before then, so we'll have one more time to 2728 02:14:39,670 --> 02:14:40,830 remind you. But yeah, trivia. 2729 02:14:40,830 --> 02:14:42,510 We've done Jackbox games the last few times. 2730 02:14:42,510 --> 02:14:44,630 This time we're gonna do Trivia, A Song of Ice and Fire, House of 2731 02:14:44,630 --> 02:14:46,710 Dragon, Game of Thrones, all that written by me. 2732 02:14:46,950 --> 02:14:49,630 So that'll be a lot of fun. Jeopardy style. 2733 02:14:49,790 --> 02:14:54,470 And you'll use a website. It's sort of Jeopardy style. 2734 02:14:54,470 --> 02:14:57,950 Like the question comes up and everyone gets to answer not just 2735 02:14:57,950 --> 02:14:59,950 the person who's on the clock, but. 2736 02:15:00,230 --> 02:15:01,110 You're. Yeah. 2737 02:15:01,110 --> 02:15:02,830 So you get the points for answering right or not. 2738 02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:06,960 I also wanted to throw out that last week or no. 2739 02:15:07,120 --> 02:15:08,720 When was that? Was it last week? 2740 02:15:08,720 --> 02:15:11,920 Yeah, last Monday I did a stream with Alt Shift X. 2741 02:15:11,960 --> 02:15:13,560 People said they liked it a lot in the chat. 2742 02:15:13,560 --> 02:15:15,480 Just now I brought it up here. Cool. 2743 02:15:15,480 --> 02:15:17,120 Yeah. So we did a stream with Alt 2744 02:15:17,120 --> 02:15:23,640 Shift X, The influences of Dune on Game, The influences of Dune 2745 02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:25,880 on Game of Thrones, and A Song of Ice and Fire. 2746 02:15:25,880 --> 02:15:28,400 Rather, we compared Frank Herbert and George R Martin as 2747 02:15:28,400 --> 02:15:31,610 authors, compared their career arcs, things that were going on 2748 02:15:31,890 --> 02:15:34,730 in their childhoods during their lives, and then just more nitty 2749 02:15:34,730 --> 02:15:38,410 gritty in terms of character comparisons, Paul and Danny and 2750 02:15:38,410 --> 02:15:45,170 Jon Snow, and just comparing like Dragons to sandworms and 2751 02:15:45,170 --> 02:15:49,170 the the power of of prophecy and things like that. 2752 02:15:49,170 --> 02:15:51,730 There's a lot of comparisons. It's a three and a half hour 2753 02:15:51,770 --> 02:15:54,940 live stream over on all Shift X's channel. 2754 02:15:54,940 --> 02:15:56,580 So yeah, check that out if you're so inclined. 2755 02:15:56,580 --> 02:15:58,820 We had a lot of fun. He's always great to chat with 2756 02:15:58,820 --> 02:16:01,820 a. Link in the chat right now. 2757 02:16:02,100 --> 02:16:05,820 Thanks as well to anyone who supports us on Patreon. 2758 02:16:05,820 --> 02:16:07,900 We very much rely on your support. 2759 02:16:08,180 --> 02:16:11,820 Our sponsors and other income is very inconsistent. 2760 02:16:11,980 --> 02:16:15,500 The thing that we certainly get the most from is y'all and that 2761 02:16:15,500 --> 02:16:17,100 needs to continue for us to continue. 2762 02:16:17,260 --> 02:16:19,340 So we appreciate those who do support us, and if you were 2763 02:16:19,340 --> 02:16:21,780 thinking about it, well, we sure could use the help. 2764 02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:25,200 Our cats depend on you for your support. 2765 02:16:25,360 --> 02:16:27,320 Now that's talking on those heartstrings, yeah. 2766 02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:30,120 Very true. Like in general cats cost money, 2767 02:16:30,120 --> 02:16:34,480 but Sean particularly has like they have a special needs a. 2768 02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:36,440 Special needs cat. That's the best term for they 2769 02:16:36,440 --> 02:16:38,600 need special medication, like Sean actually have all the 2770 02:16:38,600 --> 02:16:39,680 people. Yeah. 2771 02:16:41,160 --> 02:16:42,559 I can make that if Sean wants to. 2772 02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:45,520 They have to like, have a special special. 2773 02:16:46,400 --> 02:16:49,719 Care taken of the cats, It's a big hassle actually. 2774 02:16:49,719 --> 02:16:52,280 It's very sweet of Sean and kidney medication, right? 2775 02:16:52,680 --> 02:16:54,400 Yeah, Liver. Liver, yeah. 2776 02:16:55,600 --> 02:16:58,559 Internal functions. She's the cutest little cat, and 2777 02:16:58,559 --> 02:17:00,639 I feel so bad every time I have to give her the medicine. 2778 02:17:00,639 --> 02:17:03,320 She's so trusting and I'm like, take this medicine. 2779 02:17:05,680 --> 02:17:07,760 Yeah, I bonded with it, actually, though I really do 2780 02:17:07,760 --> 02:17:10,920 think that it's caused me to bond with her more than I would. 2781 02:17:12,120 --> 02:17:14,840 Thanks as well to Nina for her excellent notes, a lot of great 2782 02:17:14,840 --> 02:17:18,280 ones today, as usual, good insights on marriages and 2783 02:17:18,280 --> 02:17:21,480 political scenarios and what these different kings and Queens 2784 02:17:21,480 --> 02:17:25,240 and Lord might be thinking. It's such a big, big ball of wax 2785 02:17:25,240 --> 02:17:27,360 when you're dealing with unknowns, and I like to think 2786 02:17:27,360 --> 02:17:30,639 I'm pretty imaginative, but with Nina's help, it just fills 2787 02:17:30,639 --> 02:17:32,680 things out so much more. So I really appreciate that. 2788 02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:37,500 She's a big part of what we do. Thanks as well to Joey, Jesse 2789 02:17:37,500 --> 02:17:40,940 Bran and Michael Clarfeld for the music and video intro and 2790 02:17:40,940 --> 02:17:43,620 maps and all the great things that make our show more visual 2791 02:17:43,620 --> 02:17:46,299 and more musical. So excellent. 2792 02:17:46,459 --> 02:17:50,420 It makes us feel like like we're some kind of big studio, even 2793 02:17:50,420 --> 02:17:53,620 though there's only a few of us. We're some big production. 2794 02:17:53,620 --> 02:17:54,980 Nope. There's just a few of us with 2795 02:17:54,980 --> 02:17:59,540 laptops and cameras and a big old ring light and obsessive 2796 02:17:59,540 --> 02:18:02,059 ideas about our favorite book and show series. 2797 02:18:03,000 --> 02:18:05,920 We'll be back next week with more my friends shout out to 2798 02:18:05,920 --> 02:18:08,920 y'all shout out to as well. Last but not least, our good 2799 02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:11,040 friend of engineer. You know what to do. 2800 02:18:11,040 --> 02:18:16,240 Until next time, my friends and fellow W Oriens Velar Reedus.