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The exit of Egg on the Conqueror
and most of his remaining 

2
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soldiers from the army that he 
brought into Dorne triggered the

3
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defenestration of Sunspear which
featured all of the Targaryen 

4
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garrisons becoming no more. 
They were all slaughtered, and 

5
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the non Dornish Lords who were 
appointed to administer and rule

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the subjected territory were 
treated much the same, with a 

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little extra torture sprinkled 
in before their lives were 

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ended. 
Unsurprisingly this was not the 

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end of the violence, though it 
never did return to the sort of 

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standard war of armies and 
sieges and such. 

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It was more of a war of shadows,
a war of constant dragon fire 

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Raining down despite the war of 
Shadows was kind of an unusual 

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variation on on this type of 
war. 

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Sean last time mentioned Vietnam
and Afghanistan, and that's 

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very, very appropriate. 
As a parallel, the destruction 

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of many Dornish castles, 
structures, fields was a 

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constant thing, though maybe not
that many Dornish people. 

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The Dornish people were pretty 
good at staying alive, despite 

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all of this Hellfire and 
starvation and destruction being

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rained on them on them. 
From there it got worse though. 

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Bounties and assassinations, 
maimings, other atrocities each 

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year seemingly worse than the 
last. 

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Yet with the passage of time, it
seemed clear that very little 

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that either side did seemed to 
move the needle towards an end. 

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And though Dorne as a whole 
suffered mightily, arguably the 

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Targaryens lost more in terms of
power and prestige. 

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Isn't that often the case with 
war, though? 

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Nobody wins, everybody loses. 
This one is a particularly bad 

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good, no bad example of well, 
OK, strong example, powerful 

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example, tragic example. 
Yes, the first Dornish War. 

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The second-half of it has all 
that and more on this episode of

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00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,960
History of Westeros podcast. 
Hello and welcome, everybody. 

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We're back with another episode 
of Valarri, Redis for Fire and 

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00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,160
Blood here on HOW Pod. 
Every Monday or every Sunday 

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rather, we do a live stream. 
Well, almost every Sunday. 

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When we do live streams, they 
tend to be on Sundays. 

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The difference of course, comes 
during TV seasons, which is 

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usually more like Mondays and 
Saturdays and other things. 

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00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,920
But yeah, every video is done on
YouTube and then you can find it

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on Spotify after it's been 
edited. 

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So a cleaner copy is up on 
Spotify and anywhere you find 

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podcast in audio only form. 
And if you want to go with an ad

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00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,480
free experience, go on Patreon 
and join us there. 

44
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,880
That's where you get the ad free
versions of every episode. 

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00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,080
Is there anywhere you can find a
dirtier? 

46
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,480
Yes, the NSFW versions of 
History Westeros podcast are 

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00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,360
available. 
Mr. Westeros at night. 

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00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,520
Like, honestly, that's the live 
version that you're tuning into 

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00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:49,800
right now. 
That's true I. 

50
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,400
Should edit this out of the 
podcast version and you only 

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hear it if you were here live. 
Every once in a while, there's 

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like a nip slip here. 
It just pops right out of my 

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00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,120
Kingsguard T-shirt here, as you 
know, I don't know how that 

54
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,840
would actually happen. 
Like, how is a nipple going to 

55
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,040
escape this? 
Sean, you got a boy's shirt on. 

56
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That's also very strong way to 
protect your your innards. 

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Yeah, you know, I I thought to 
wear this shirt because it's 

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kind of a a bloody, violent show
about how ambition and revenge 

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can bring out the worst in US, 
featuring characters as 

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superpowers. 
That's in parallel to this. 

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That's a good point, yeah. 
And I've got the Kingsguard 

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shirt on, because this is the 
formation of the Kingsguard 

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happens during this episode. 
Even though we're not going to 

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focus on that, it does happen. 
We're going to mention it so. 

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There's also another layer This 
is this is this is a boy, sure, 

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but it's a mash up with the 
gorillas and a lot of gorilla 

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warfare is featured here. 
OK. 

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Yes, yes, the the the different 
types of gorilla in play there, 

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that's cool. 
That's neat. 

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Well, starting this week, by the
time you are hearing this, it 

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may have already started is our 
Patrons topics moot where those 

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of you who are subscribed to us 
on Patreon can vote on a whole 

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bevy of topics that will be 
dropping over the course of the 

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next month or so. 
And those topics will be come 

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episodes during the year. 
The dates will be TBD, but those

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episodes will be made and it is 
the first of what will be a 

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yearly thing. 
I expect we'll expand on it next

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year after we've had one in the 
books and kind of get a feel for

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how we want to do it, get some 
new ideas and and kind of flesh 

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it out a bit more. 
So it should be pretty fun. 

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So you can all participate in 
the very first topic Smoot, by 

82
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,760
joining us on 
patreonpatreon.com/history of 

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Westeros and a shout out to our 
good friend Nina. 

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She gave us a lot of excellent 
notes for today. 

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Her blog is at Good Queen Alley 
with 1l.tumblr.com. 

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The latest blog post she's got 
up there is a question on what 

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were the best times of the 
Targaryen, Like what were the 

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golden ages of Targaryen rule? 
A straightforward answer is 

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Jaharis, but there's other 
answers and Nina goes into 

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detail as to why Jaharis is 
thought of the way he is. 

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It's not just a yes him. 
Well, there's some nice detailed

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00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,360
explanations there. 
I recommend it if you have 

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questions for us. 
Like I said, that question came 

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from one of Nina's readers. 
If you have questions for us, 

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you can post them live and Ashea
will hopefully see it. 

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She can't see every comment. 
She's doing a lot back there, 

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but if she sees it and it's a 
good question, we will answer it

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live. 
If your question is missed or 

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00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,840
you want to be sure we see it, 
send it directly to us at 

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00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:31,960
westeroshistory@gmail.com or 
contact us through Patreon or 

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00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,040
one of the other sites that 
you're linked to us on trivia 

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question for today. 
The answer will be at the end, 

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but it's also during the 
episode. 

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I will slyly or not so slyly 
give you the clue to what this 

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I'll give you the answer to this
question during the episode if 

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you are attentive enough to hear
it. 

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Or maybe you already know what 
title Created by Aegon the 

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Conqueror was only held by one 
man ever. 

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And bonus if you can name who 
that person was. 

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The answer to this was actually 
last in the last episode as 

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well, but it's going to be 
repeated in this one. 

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I was proud of myself for 
knowing the answer to this 

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question. 
Nice. 

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Good job, Sean. 
There we go. 

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You're becoming less unsullied 
all the time. 

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Every day that goes by, you are 
slightly less unsullied. 

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So I actually, in the intro 
called it the second-half. 

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I stylishly called it that. 
But really, it's not really the 

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second-half, the 2nd portion, 
because the first part of the 

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war was two or three years, and 
that's what we covered last 

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time. 
This is more like 6 or seven 

122
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years, maybe even 8. 
So it is a longer period of time

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00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,640
and a more brutal period of time
in a lot of ways, though 

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certainly the last one was 
pretty darn brutal as well. 

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You got people trapped in rock 
slides, burned alive, 

126
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,680
disappearing in deserts of 
exposure and thirst. 

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00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,560
Yeah, none of it's very 
pleasant, but it's all it's all 

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00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,160
not real. 
So here's a passage that best 

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00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,880
defines this episode. 
Quote. 

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Aegon Targaryen was not a man to
accept defeat. 

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The war would drag on for 
another seven years, though. 

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After six AC, the fighting 
degenerated into an endless 

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00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:10,680
bloody series of atrocities, 
raids and retaliations, broken 

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00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,920
up by long periods of 
inactivity, a dozen short 

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truces, and numerous murders and
assassinations. 

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00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,160
We read that quote last time, 
but it really bears repeating 

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because it really sets up what's
coming here and we have to sort 

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of imagine what some of these 
things are like. 

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We don't know when any of these 
dozen short truces are. 

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None of them are specified for 
us. 

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00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,200
We don't know what these long 
periods of inactivity are that 

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00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,120
we can kind of imagine them. 
Maybe Winter helped with that, 

143
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,640
or even though it was not full 
blown Winter and Dawn, it's 

144
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,320
still that would maybe slow 
things down. 

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At least it's a reasonable 
guess. 

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00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,480
What do you think, Sean? 
Yeah, I agree. 

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00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,960
There's a lot left 
interpretation there, like a 

148
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,840
short truce might be one day, 
you know, like, and a dozen 

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00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,840
could be a number thrown out 
there just to represent, you 

150
00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,200
know, several. 
Kind of how they say 1000 years 

151
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,520
ago, yeah, a dozen or so, yeah. 
It's not a specific number. 

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00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,120
And some of the truces, I 
wonder, could have been maybe 

153
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,880
more or less local, you know, 
like maybe this group or this 

154
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,480
region or this battle was put on
hold for a day. 

155
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,720
Sure, that makes sense. 
But, and maybe sometimes Aegon 

156
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,000
or some other leader might have 
said Okay, you know, we're going

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00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,400
to hold off for the next three 
months. 

158
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But that doesn't mean individual
people down in the ground didn't

159
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,880
still like, exact their revenge.
You know, modern day equivalent 

160
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,560
of throwing Molotov cocktail 
across a wall or something, You 

161
00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:27,080
know? 
Yep. 

162
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,200
Good point. 
Good point. 

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00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,040
Yeah, so Fireblood summarizes a 
lot of the war, naming major 

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00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,240
events from each year, but 
otherwise it leaves a lot 

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unspecified, which is not a big 
deal for us. 

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00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,160
There's enough there for us to 
go into sandbox mode. 

167
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It's a good excuse for that. 
We like sandbox mode and Doran 

168
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,680
is already a natural sandbox, so
that kind of works anyway. 

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And Nina adds that it makes the 
most sense for a historian with 

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the conceit of Gildane because, 
well, there weren't a lot of 

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traditional pitch battles the 
even the way West Dorian, 

172
00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,360
Westeros history, Westerosi 
historians would write. 

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00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,800
History is challenged by this 
because they would have had a 

174
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,360
way of writing about war that's 
just very tilted towards what 

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00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,280
Westeros war normally looks 
like. 

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00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,200
And this is not what Westerosi 
war normally looks like. 

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00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,040
So they might not have. 
I might have missed some of the 

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00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,440
nuance, like they weren't 
necessarily prepared to 

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accurately record it in a way 
that maybe, well, I'm I'm more 

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modern, like a real world 
historian might have some of 

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00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,880
that experience from having read
about these cases elsewhere. 

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00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,640
But a Gil Dain or something? 
Well, they would have read about

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00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,800
other conflicts between the 
Reach and Dorne or the Storm 

184
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,160
Lands and Dorne, but nothing. 
None of those conflicts probably

185
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were ever anything like this. 
Certainly didn't have Dragons 

186
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,560
before involved, certainly 
didn't have an attempt to 

187
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,640
conquer Dorne. 
That had never happened from 

188
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,640
like, I don't think the 
Stormlands ever tried to 

189
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,320
completely conquer Dorne. 
I don't think the Reach ever 

190
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,360
tried to completely. 
If they did, they never got 

191
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,160
anywhere close to it. 
So if that would be the 

192
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,920
difference, if not both of those
things. 

193
00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,080
So yeah, very different. 
They don't have like a lot of 

194
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:07,960
precedent to draw on in terms of
like experience or past writings

195
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,520
to give themselves a leg up or a
head start or some additional 

196
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,160
understanding. 
It might have even taken a 

197
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,760
certain passage of time to have 
the perspective to consider it a

198
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,880
war or having all been a war 
continuously, like I just 

199
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,880
imagine like in the middle of 
the 100 years war, like even 80 

200
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,560
years in, they probably weren't 
calling it the 80 years war, the

201
00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:29,680
fact that we had Africa. 
Still 80 years? 

202
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,720
Jeez, yeah. 
And partly because it wasn't 

203
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,440
continuous, right? 
There were breaks and it was 

204
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,840
happening between different 
factions over a large region, 

205
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,120
you know, similar to this and 
and another thing too, like, you

206
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,400
know, the world has gone through
different phases and styles of 

207
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,840
warfare or whatever. 
But a lot of European history, 

208
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,440
at least battles are a little 
more organized, right The there 

209
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,840
the armies would agree on it and
place. 

210
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,240
It in a weird. 
And sometimes spectators would 

211
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,120
come to observe it, you know, 
and like. 

212
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,080
But this sort of guerrilla 
warfare might have been thought 

213
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,800
of as like, you know, unfair. 
Or they're cheating, or they're 

214
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,440
not following the rules. 
And maybe it's not really even 

215
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:05,920
war. 
They're just like bandits or 

216
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,880
criminals or you. 
Know, and this is probably where

217
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,240
a lot of that and reputation 
comes from. 

218
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,000
Like we see at the beginning of 
A Song of Ice of Fire, the 

219
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,480
Dornish have a reputation for 
like different styles of war. 

220
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,120
They get accused of poisonings, 
which you don't really see that 

221
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,160
very often. 
Like dornes don't actually seem 

222
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,880
to use poison any more than 
anybody else. 

223
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,240
I mean, they do use it, but like
I said, it doesn't seem to be 

224
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,760
like an epidemic or anything, 
you know? 

225
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,520
And it's a little different from
the Targaryen side too, this 

226
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,200
sort of Total War that they're 
exactly right. 

227
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,880
Dragons just burning towns down 
and stuff that's not normal in 

228
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,640
Westerosi warfare, and probably 
not a lot of planet toasts in 

229
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,040
general it. 
Probably was during the 

230
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,320
freehold, like we saw them do 
that to the roinar, but still 

231
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,240
that doesn't make it like 
normal. 

232
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,600
I mean, it may have been a part 
of history, but even they 

233
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,200
probably didn't just blow up 
every city because they want, 

234
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,640
they wanted to conquer too. 
Like they usually are, 

235
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,360
subjecting people to their rule,
not just annihilating them 

236
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,080
entirely, though there are 
exceptions. 

237
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,440
If it comes to bend the knee or 
die, they're going to choose. 

238
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,000
They're going to kill you rather
than give up their supremacy, 

239
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,240
and we'll see that. 
The real world Genghis Khan 

240
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,360
just, you know, slaughtered 
every man, woman, cow, goat, 

241
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,320
dog. 
You surrender. 

242
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,960
Immediately or it sounds, yeah, 
you you get very little. 

243
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,600
But that total warfare, and it's
not like all Europe was like, 

244
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,400
oh, I guess that's how we'll do 
it now, you know, even when we 

245
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,360
get to like the American Civil 
War was still more like let's 

246
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,920
meet Tuesday morning and I am 
and fight at this point, these 

247
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,040
soldiers. 
And there was still less rule of

248
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,840
warfare going on. 
So I think that's an important 

249
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,400
thing. 
And it's also true as well that 

250
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,800
maybe just this, for whatever 
reason, the sources are actually

251
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,560
a little stronger. 
Like we know there's a Conquest 

252
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,360
of Dorm book written by Darren 
the 1st and it's very detailed. 

253
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,200
We don't have it. 
We don't have a copy of it but 

254
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,680
it exists and we don't know like
is there a book on the the first

255
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:42,840
Dornish war? 
I mean there probably is but we 

256
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,960
have it hasn't been referred to.
You know it'd be kind of weird 

257
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,760
if there wasn't any book on that
in world considering such a 

258
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,840
major long term event. 
But it isn't actually like 

259
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,760
mentioned to reference. 
So maybe there's just yeah maybe

260
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,680
this is like a little bit of a a
missing piece in in Westeros 

261
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,160
history itself. 
I mean, there's plenty of 

262
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,160
examples in the real world of 
periods of time where we just 

263
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,120
don't have good sources. 
So it it's a huge story though, 

264
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,600
and it it it sounds really big. 
And that's part of why I I harp 

265
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,520
on this. 
There's a lot of room for 

266
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,640
interpretation, a lot of room 
for missing events, a lot of 

267
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:12,960
room for expansion of this 
story. 

268
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,440
Someday maybe it'll be ATV show,
maybe they'll be additional 

269
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,640
material written in here. 
There's a lot of stuff that 

270
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,320
could be added, a lot of pathos,
a lot of characters and how they

271
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:23,960
feel about it. 
All that that's where there's a 

272
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,360
lot of room for expanding Aegon 
the Conquers personality is a 

273
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,560
pretty obvious one, but there's 
so many other people in here. 

274
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,520
There's so many other characters
and that could be added and some

275
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,240
that we know that we just need 
to be fleshed out. 

276
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,520
Like the Widow Lover and 
Princess Miria and Vasenia and 

277
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,080
Rainey's and and this various 
Lords of the Hell Hold that are 

278
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,080
going to have a lot of things go
wrong for them after their their

279
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,240
victory there in 10 AC that 
we're going to get to today. 

280
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,080
You know, I can't believe I 
didn't think to to ask or 

281
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,360
research this before. 
What was Princess Maria's family

282
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,080
like? 
Did she? 

283
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,160
She was really old. 
Did she have grandchildren? 

284
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,520
Great grandchildren. 
She had all that. 

285
00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
That's going to be a big part of

286
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,880
next episode actually next week 
or the week after because we 

287
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,920
will be discussing her family 
sort of takes a different tack 

288
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,280
than she does. 
And yeah, yeah, right. 

289
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,200
So it's that's going to be 
that's going to be interesting. 

290
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,640
But she is a Martell. 
So yeah, her we don't know like 

291
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,360
if she had brothers or sisters 
and she probably outlived them 

292
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,320
even if she did, because she 
lived to be in the mid 90s or 

293
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,160
something and few real world 
people live that long, let alone

294
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,960
in Westeros so. 
I'm just imagining the drama 

295
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,360
that could be covered if there 
was ATV show just about this. 

296
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,880
Absolutely they would. 
They would flesh that family 

297
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,040
out. 
They have some names already, 

298
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,120
but they would, they would want 
to add a few more cousins here 

299
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,320
and there probably. 
And yeah, it would be very 

300
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,760
interesting I think a lot more 
interesting I think than the 

301
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,480
conquest itself which I think is
pretty interesting too. 

302
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,160
But it would it's not 
interesting in terms of you know

303
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,320
who's going to win or well that 
was close, you know, not stuff 

304
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,760
like that. 
It would be the the, the 

305
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,480
character stories that would be 
written into that. 

306
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,240
Nina also writes to the extent 
George wants to compare the 

307
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,680
first Dornish War to the 100 
Years War which was Sean, you 

308
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,840
mentioned the 80 Years War, it's
like that similar vibes there. 

309
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,880
And again, this was a a point 
she made last week about how 11 

310
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,600
similarity was that the the 
monarchs of England called 

311
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,760
themselves Kings of France like 
the year 1800. 

312
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,960
And this is kind of similar in 
that Agon was calling himself 

313
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,040
king of the Roinar before, I 
mean before this war even 

314
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,760
started. 
He was calling himself king of 

315
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,440
the Roinar, let alone before he 
rainies went there to demand a 

316
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,160
surrender. 
That never happened. 

317
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,400
So yeah, But again, we're not 
just focused on the war. 

318
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,320
There's certain subtopics that 
we'll save for later 'cause 

319
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,960
they're too big. 
But there's a lot of things that

320
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,640
happen here in timeline order 
that kind of get breezed over in

321
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,920
the book that we want to draw 
connections to. 

322
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,200
Like, it hardly mentions 
fireblood, barely mentions the 

323
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,880
fact that Anis and Megor were 
born during this war. 

324
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,000
It just brings that up later. 
It's like, by the way, in the 

325
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,880
year 7, Anis was born and it's 
like, wait, that was during the 

326
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,080
Dornish War. 
Wouldn't he have been like a 

327
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:54,760
target of a sat Like that Should
change. 

328
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,880
That should matter. 
And so I want to draw some of 

329
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,840
that out because I think it's 
lacking in the book and it it 

330
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,560
makes sense to discuss some of 
those things. 

331
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,400
And well, that's what we do 
here. 

332
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,839
We read between the lines and if
there's not as much to read 

333
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,720
between the lines, we add it. 
We do our best with that. 

334
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,240
So let's continue with the 
defenestration of Sunspear to 

335
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,000
lead ourselves into the newer 
events. 

336
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,720
Balon Greyjoy of all people. 
Why am I talking about him? 

337
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,359
Well, he once pointed out that 
if you bend the knee, you can 

338
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,960
later rise again and strike. 
Right? 

339
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,359
It's you. 
No one ever died from bending 

340
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:25,640
the knees. 
Basically what he said it was 

341
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,000
like, that's a pretty good 
point, Bailon. 

342
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,120
It's a good ego free, like good 
way to, you know, get rid of 

343
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,800
some pride and and make some 
sense. 

344
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,960
I don't obviously agree with him
on his greater point, but yes, 

345
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,240
forget your pride. 
Stark wishes that he was more 

346
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,320
correct. 
Yeah, good point, Good point. 

347
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,840
Yeah. 
So, and Doran did that basically

348
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,320
without the bending the knee 
part. 

349
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,880
They're just like, we're just 
going to hide and we will rise 

350
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,320
again later though. 
And they waited for him to leave

351
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,200
like the moment he left. 
And they had reason to believe 

352
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,840
that would happen. 
It wasn't a stroke of luck, of 

353
00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,200
course. 
Aegon the Conqueror is not just 

354
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,040
going to stay in Dorne the rest 
of his life. 

355
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,880
He's got a new Kingdom to run. 
He's got a throne, that weird 

356
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,320
ass throne he's making up there.
He's clearly going to go sit on 

357
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,120
that and not stay down here. 
He had a lot, a lot to do up 

358
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,440
there, so it was reasonable 
expectation that he would leave,

359
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,920
and they may have considered it.
A stroke of luck. 

360
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,120
However, how poorly he handled 
the conquest of Dorne. 

361
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,920
His policy of dominance through 
pure martial power was not 

362
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,520
working, and he didn't adapt to 
that at all. 

363
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,520
He just kept attacking and 
destroying things and they kept 

364
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,800
not surrendering and it just, 
well, it was very Sisyphean like

365
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,600
he it was clearly that wasn't 
going to work. 

366
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,760
But he kept trying and one thing
he didn't adapt to sticking with

367
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,880
this topic of Greyjoys, sort of 
is even after it became clear 

368
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,440
that he couldn't hold door and 
he still didn't start to use 

369
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,680
ships and navies, he still 
didn't adapt to bring that in. 

370
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,680
And I know I've mentioned this 
before, but it's kind of maybe 

371
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,680
shows his stubbornness. 
Maybe his initial plan was 

372
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,600
really strong, but he was slow 
to make changes when the initial

373
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,320
plan started to fail. 
And I buy slow. 

374
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,440
I mean years and years and years
of doing the same thing over and

375
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,480
over and not working. 
I wanna give Aegon maybe a 

376
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,840
little more credit because he 
suddenly has a lot more to deal 

377
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,640
with right now. 
So a he might be spending more 

378
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,360
attention on trying to work out 
trade deals and keep peace 

379
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040
between the new Lords and all 
this other stuff. 

380
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,920
And additionally, it's not crazy
to think that this would work 

381
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,400
like a war of attrition is a 
thing and he has the huge 

382
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,240
advantage when it comes to that.
I I can see why it made it taken

383
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,520
a year or two or three years for
him to to shift gears but well, 

384
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,400
he he didn't after that, so 
that's a mistake. 

385
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,720
Exactly. 
He never did shift gears. 

386
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,160
And you're right. 
Like if he's trying to deny them

387
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,200
resources like ships, that's a 
pretty obvious way to do that, 

388
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,960
like deny them trade. 
And that is eventually what 

389
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,360
happened. 
But it wasn't because he denied 

390
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,040
the trade, it's because there 
was nothing left to trade with. 

391
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,200
There was just. 
So the quote that's going to 

392
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,560
come later is that Doran was 
effectively a smoking ruin. 

393
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,480
Like there's nothing to blockade
like what ships are going in and

394
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,120
out like. 
So it was done. 

395
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,880
It was accomplished a different 
way, but he could have maybe 

396
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,040
done that sooner. 
Or anyway destroying that the 

397
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,160
Plankey town, which is something
we discussed last time, they 

398
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,120
would have eventually cleared 
that out and fixed it, but they 

399
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,480
could, they wouldn't have had an
opportunity. 

400
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,520
If they're just worried that at 
any minute a dragon could return

401
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,440
and just blow it all up again, 
what's the point of rebuilding 

402
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,000
something that could easily be 
taken down and not until the war

403
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,880
is over would they? 
Would it make much sense to do 

404
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,560
that? 
If Aegon did start to alter his 

405
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,800
plans, if we're selling short 
his flexibility, a clue to that 

406
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,440
might be how much he listened to
the maesters. 

407
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,960
Recall that he created the 
office of Grand Maester and he 

408
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,960
did it in the Year 5 AC, which 
is pretty much like right after 

409
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:38,200
this war started but or started 
to become take shape but before 

410
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,560
Rainey's came and burned the 
plankey town. 

411
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,440
And this first Grand Maester was
Olidar, who had been the arch 

412
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,920
maester of history. 
So when we talked before about 

413
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,520
historical precedent and looking
at past wars with Dorne for 

414
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,200
ideas, for strategies, for 
things that worked, for details 

415
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,880
on how to deal with the desert, 
well, he maybe didn't have much 

416
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,480
to provide there, and maybe 
Aegon didn't listen to him. 

417
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,120
In any case, the guy didn't live
very long, so it may have just 

418
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,040
been that might have been the 
simplest answer of all. 

419
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,440
He didn't have, didn't listen to
the man because the man was only

420
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,920
in office for a year or so, 
actually less than a year. 

421
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,040
He was replaced by a man named 
Leonce, who was the archmaster 

422
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,800
of either money or numbers, 
'cause we don't know the 

423
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,920
difference. 
Like there's a red gold 

424
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:25,640
archmaster and a yellow gold 
archmaster, We don't actually 

425
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,160
know which is which. 
One of them is money, one of 

426
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,680
them is just numbers, so they're
kind of related. 

427
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,480
Either way, this guy was 
probably very important in 

428
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,680
setting up new economic policies
or advising Aegon on things like

429
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,640
taxation and things like that. 
So it's a pretty important role 

430
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,000
in an in a new economy, in a new
country, a new region, all that 

431
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,160
stuff. 
And this guy would have worked 

432
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,480
with Crispy and Celtagar, the 
first Master of coin, who we 

433
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,960
talked about in our House 
Celtagar episode last year. 

434
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,840
Of course, the Grand Maester 
office still exists, but one 

435
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,640
that doesn't is the Warden of 
Sands, and that it would have 

436
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,520
been interesting if there had 
been a Warden of Saint of that. 

437
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,280
It's stuck 'cause he's like, 
well, Warden of the North, Ward 

438
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,920
of the South, Warden of the 
east, Ward of the West. 

439
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,640
Oh wait, we need another one. 
Warden of the sands. 

440
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,160
I don't know call it that yeah. 
Warden of the sandbox in our 

441
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,520
case. 
So yeah that was that Lord John 

442
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,880
Rosby fellow who only one to 
ever hold that title. 

443
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,720
So Castella he was Castellan of 
Sunspeer which is for a very 

444
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,040
short time before they murdered 
him and that's the one who Maria

445
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,800
pushed out the window herself. 
Very symbolic we we mentioned 

446
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,720
that last time So it it's a 
little different right. 

447
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,680
You you kind of have to have 
this was more of a like 

448
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,080
occupying force warden rather 
than a you're the guy that is in

449
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,160
charge if there's an outside 
attack. 

450
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,560
So it's kind of it is a little 
different in its conceit. 

451
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,240
In time that might have evolved,
yes. 

452
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,480
But yes, they didn't have time 
for. 

453
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,920
That never. 
Yeah, exactly. 

454
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,080
And by the time Egon gets back 
to King's Landing, he's left. 

455
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,920
He leaves Dorn. 
The defenestration of Sunspear 

456
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,360
happens. 
We don't know when he hears 

457
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:52,960
about it. 
Maybe there's some messengers 

458
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,720
that arrive on the road. 
They're like, Oh my gosh, King, 

459
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,280
look what's happened. 
Maybe he doesn't get the the 

460
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,880
most of the news until he 
actually arrives back home. 

461
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,640
We don't know if he marched with
the army or if he just flew back

462
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,960
on Valerian to get there 
quickly. 

463
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,640
If he did, he's certainly not 
getting any news. 

464
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,800
On the meantime, Ravens don't 
fly to airborne Dragons to 

465
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,640
deliver messages. 
I I don't know that I needed to 

466
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,240
clarify that, but it's kind of 
funny to picture that, right? 

467
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,880
So he would have. 
It's quite possible he had no 

468
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,840
idea until getting back to 
King's Landing what happened to 

469
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,680
Lord Orius. 
He's like where what happened to

470
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,640
Lord Orius's army? 
Like it totally vanished. 

471
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,320
We never saw them. 
We never heard of them. 

472
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,720
He might finally find that out. 
When? 

473
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,320
I don't know. 
There's maybe some ransom 

474
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,400
demands or someone maybe 
taunting from the widow lover, 

475
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,440
the the Lord Will guy. 
He seems like he might be 

476
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,640
willing to do something like 
that and that's a big deal. 

477
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,400
Like Oris is like the 4th ranked
guy in the whole Kingdom. 

478
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,880
You got Aegon, Vesenia, Raines 
and then him, right? 

479
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,400
There's no heirs yet. 
Who would it be? 

480
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,840
Like their Lord Valerian isn't 
that powerful at this point. 

481
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,880
I I Oris is their blood 
relation. 

482
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,120
He's like their bastard half 
brother so he's got to be next 

483
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,840
in line and and then that just 
that includes like the throne. 

484
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Like if something weird were to 
happen. 

485
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,480
Vesenia, Raines, and Aegon are 
all killed. 

486
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,920
He would have the best claim to 
the crown. 

487
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,880
So having him is a really 
powerful hostage, a really 

488
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,720
powerful man. 
So he's the most elevated and 

489
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,520
connected man in the kingdoms 
that doesn't have a dragon. 

490
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,240
And at this point, again, this 
is the year 6. 

491
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760
Still, no Anis is going to be 
born the next year. 

492
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,360
So there this is like possibly 
even the guy that some might 

493
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,800
consider the heir. 
It's unclear at this point who 

494
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,320
would have been the heir, but 
he's probably the best claim. 

495
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,200
You know, it's hard to see who 
it could have been. 

496
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,600
So that's a really big hostage, 
a really big deal. 

497
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,680
And it might slow Aegon's 
response down. 

498
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,600
He's like, well, if I launch 
into Total War again right away,

499
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,240
are you just, are they just 
going to execute him? 

500
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,480
The answer is no. 
But it had to be on his mind. 

501
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,480
So, yeah, OK, so the Year 6 AC, 
let's go there. 

502
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,320
Remember last time we discussed 
a lot about weather? 

503
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,360
That's another thing that's not 
super clarified in Fire and 

504
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,600
Blood, but we can figure out a 
lot because we knew there was 

505
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,480
two straight years of autumn and
there's no mention of a or not 

506
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,160
two straight years, but it 
entered its second year. 

507
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,280
We don't know if it went two 
full years, you know? 

508
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,520
Anyway, maybe an unnecessary 
clarification, but we're very 

509
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,800
detailed here at History of 
Westeros podcast. 

510
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,320
Winter had almost certainly come
by 6 AC if there had been nearly

511
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,800
two years of Autumn in four and 
five AC, right? 

512
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,960
That's a pretty safe assumption,
I think. 

513
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,320
And there's not some mentioned 
later on of winter suddenly 

514
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,240
coming. 
Right. 

515
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,920
Yeah. 
So the defenestration happened 

516
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,560
late 5 AC is kind of our guess. 
The text says that the next 

517
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,120
phase of the war began in six 
AC. 

518
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:42,280
So that all that all adds up. 
It's not important to just like 

519
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,640
completely pinpoint that, but 
the weather part is what I care 

520
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,400
about here. 
Even in much warmer Dorn. 

521
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,640
It's a bad time to raise armies 
to begin a campaign that 

522
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,200
involves significant manpower 
and not like, not to mention how

523
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,360
badly the less that armies found
it. 

524
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,880
Like, remember, more than half 
of the soldiers Aegon raised 

525
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,480
died and during the actual war 
part, and then a whole chunk 

526
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,400
more died when all the garrisons
were slaughtered. 

527
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,760
So you got a lot of soldiers 
that are like, yeah, I do not 

528
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,320
want to go back there. 
Morale would be real low, yeah. 

529
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,600
I was going to say not only do 
you have that many less 

530
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,960
soldiers, but you're it's that 
more difficult to get any more 

531
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,680
soldiers, Yeah. 
Yeah, and harder to feed them. 

532
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,800
Yeah. 
So the timing is bad. 

533
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,000
So it's kind of a maybe a a 
respite for Dorne timing. 

534
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,320
A lot of things worked out 
pretty well for them timing wise

535
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,960
and they get some credit for 
maybe building their strategy 

536
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,920
around it. 
And after a long autumn we would

537
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,680
expect a longer winner. 
That's just that's how it works,

538
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,840
right? 
The longer the autumn, the 

539
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,360
longer the winner, which of 
course will also mean a longer 

540
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,800
summer following that winner, 
which this war is long enough 

541
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,520
that we need to factor that in 
too. 

542
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,680
It's going to explain, help us 
explain a lot. 

543
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,600
Even if we don't have exact 
precise dates for when the 

544
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,960
seasons changed, though we know 
things escalated. 

545
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,560
This may have been one of those 
periods of relative inactivity. 

546
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,400
Not a truce necessarily, but one
of those implied like stuff just

547
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,760
didn't happen for a while, the 
outside of winter that makes a 

548
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,480
lot of sense for that. 
Or the Targaryens thinking they 

549
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,800
had things settled only for this
uprising to happen and them 

550
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,160
struggling to find a way to 
respond immediately. 

551
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,960
Well, we can't just March down 
there again. 

552
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,240
So what do we do? 
I don't know. 

553
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,680
Let's talk about it. 
Well, there you go. 

554
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,600
Period of inactivity, boom. 
Pretty straightforward. 

555
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,280
But perhaps they just had. 
Maybe they just knew they had to

556
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,200
wait. 
They probably, maybe they were 

557
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,160
like, well they got us well, but
we're going to come back, we're 

558
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,880
going to be prepared next time. 
So it's like an extension of the

559
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,800
Dragons interim. 
In essence, they wanted to get 

560
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,680
back at Dorne. 
They were itching to finish what

561
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,520
they started, but the timing was
terrible. 

562
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,000
Establishing new laws and 
traditions and all that other 

563
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:39,880
stuff. 
They still got others. 

564
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,440
Like we said, there's other 
things to do. 

565
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,080
Dorne is not the only concern 
here. 

566
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,920
You got to pay attention to the 
other six kingdoms, or however 

567
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,080
you count them, 678, whatever 
the number is. 

568
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,040
It's another example of 
something that I can imagine 

569
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,200
that the details and drama of 
playing out on a show that 

570
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,320
featured all this. 
There might be times where just 

571
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,400
to save face or to present the 
people with a victory of sorts, 

572
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,360
when you know you can't attack 
anyway, but you can pitch it 

573
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,320
like they're too scared of us 
and they offered a truce. 

574
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,440
We were like, wow, we weren't 
attacking anyway, But you can 

575
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,720
make it seem like you have 
accomplished something by 

576
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,080
negotiating a truce. 
Yeah, it's a good way to fire up

577
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,560
your own side, just like 
anything that makes your people 

578
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,040
a little more confident. 
I know I've used this example 

579
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,200
before. 
It's been a while though. 

580
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,640
It's it's the wire. 
Slim Charles once tried to fire 

581
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,680
up the the the gang by pointing 
to some guy that has been 

582
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,240
murdered and all. 
The gang thought it was the 

583
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,480
rival gang that murdered this 
guy. 

584
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,200
And then then he go back and 
they're having a meeting amongst

585
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,080
the leaders and the guy's like, 
yeah, it wasn't them. 

586
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,280
He's like, what wasn't them? 
He's like, don't tell them that.

587
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,840
If it's a lie, we fight on that 
lie. 

588
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,480
That's better. 
Don't take, don't SAP their 

589
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,880
morale if we're going to go 
fight them. 

590
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,080
Don't take their morale away, 
even if it's dishonest. 

591
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,760
You know, like they're about to 
go put their lives on the line. 

592
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,560
You know, you want them to be 
confident and you know if you're

593
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,640
not going to call the whole 
thing off, don't tell them the 

594
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,040
truth. 
You know, it's a similar sort of

595
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:00,680
thing here. 
Yeah. 

596
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,720
Dishonesty is not the worst 
thing in the world. 

597
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,360
Like, it's it's unethical. 
But sometimes lying is a good 

598
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,120
thing. 
If it's saving lives, like 

599
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,560
there's no question lying is a 
good thing. 

600
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,800
Lying in of itself, I don't 
think is wrong. 

601
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,400
Using a lie to deny someone 
their rights. 

602
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,200
Yeah, OK, that's. 
Yeah, yeah. 

603
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,720
And and other examples too. 
But yeah, just in a vacuum, not 

604
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,400
all lies or evil or unethical or
what have you. 

605
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,680
This is one of those times, I 
suppose, especially if you're on

606
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,880
the Dornish side and you're 
fighting for your country, 

607
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,200
fighting for, you know, your 
your countrymen or your your 

608
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,720
lives, etcetera. 
Well, it's a few lies and and 

609
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,200
mixed into that when when your 
lives are on the line, right? 

610
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,320
Like. 
Especially given all the other 

611
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,520
atrocities. 
Yeah, a lie doesn't even come 

612
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,080
close, unless that lie is one of
the things that led to some of 

613
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,440
those atrocities. 
But in most cases, it's not. 

614
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,960
It's just a There's another 
raindrop in the storm here, 

615
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,040
right? 
Does this barrel of wine that 

616
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,320
I'm going to share with my whole
household have poison in it? 

617
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,080
No, no, that's the that's the 
bad lie. 

618
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,320
And there is a poison barrel of 
wine later in the story too. 

619
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,360
I like that good example good, 
said Sean. 

620
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,880
So the Lord Oris and hostages 
situation does have a resolution

621
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,960
the following year in seven AC. 
And still things probably 

622
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,240
haven't kicked into full second 
phase of the war yet. 

623
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,520
I still. 
I feel like we're still in the 

624
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,920
interim where things are picking
up, but there still hasn't been 

625
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,560
a second army sent down. 
There never will be. 

626
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,320
The Dragons haven't returned 
yet. 

627
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,920
We haven't seen, like, the 
assassinations really kick into 

628
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,320
gear yet. 
So I feel like this is still 

629
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,320
part of that inactivity where 
people are preparing, they're 

630
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,800
thinking about what might come 
next, but people aren't actually

631
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,560
actively stabbing each other to 
death in Dorne or otherwise 

632
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,080
fighting. 
So the ransom happens, Lord Oris

633
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,080
and his other Knights, some of 
whom were the ones who were 

634
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,640
important enough to leave alive 
a ransom by Lord Will the widow 

635
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,480
lover. 
And we get an idea maybe why it 

636
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,160
took so long. 
The ransom was huge. 

637
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,640
It's it's a casually dropped 
number. 

638
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,920
Their weight in gold, that's a 
staggering sum. 

639
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,920
How much is I'm about 160 lbs a 
160 lbs of gold. 

640
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,120
If I'm a knight I weigh more 
than that, probably cause I've 

641
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,520
been training in in, in, in 
armor my whole life. 

642
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,840
I probably have way more muscle.
I'm probably like 180 or maybe 

643
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,200
190 and there's certainly people
larger than me, the 200 

644
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,560
pounders. 
I'm not a very big man. 

645
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,360
A lot of these guys would be big
or he's himself is a huge man. 

646
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:33,000
Most likely like a 240 pounder 
or something like that 6 foot 4,

647
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,440
something big like that. 
And this is where it's kind of 

648
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,640
funny, the way you can game 
things like this. 

649
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,200
The not funny part is that after
the ransom was agreed to, the 

650
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,440
wills chop their hands off so 
that they could never raise 

651
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,320
swords against Dorne again, 
which is like, Ouch, but kind of

652
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,520
get it. 
Like these were invaders and if 

653
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,280
you let them go, they're 
definitely going to come back. 

654
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,800
They are going to come like it's
a it's like a guarantee that 

655
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,360
most of these warriors, 
including Ori's, would come back

656
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:01,720
to fight in Dorne if they 
weren't. 

657
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,160
It's kind of it's definitely a 
violation of the implied code of

658
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,720
conduct when dealing with 
hostages. 

659
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,240
But I kind of get it, you know? 
Not that I approve, but I I'm 

660
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,880
like I don't know I it's hard to
like say it's. 

661
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,640
It's hardcore, right? 
It may be immoral, but it makes 

662
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,480
sense. 
Yeah, It's not just cruelty for 

663
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,360
cruelty's sake. 
It's not just, oh, we want to 

664
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,680
We're going to get one over on 
these ancient enemies of ours 

665
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,440
like, ha, those stupid storm 
Landers we show them, you know? 

666
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,680
They're gonna give us five more 
pounds of gold than they should 

667
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,680
have, yeah. 
Yeah, they weighed them and then

668
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,040
cut their hands. 
Might be too much I. 

669
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,400
Don't know if Yeah. 
Does it have its gauntlet on 

670
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,600
when you cut it? 
Yeah, that's And that's how this

671
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,440
gets gained. 
We saw Ruth Bolton game that, 

672
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,720
like, Lord Walter phrase like 
you can. 

673
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,320
Now I'll give you a bride price 
in silver. 

674
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,160
She's like, well, I'll take your
largest daughter, then I'll 

675
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,160
choose fat Walda. 
So we're like the the wills, 

676
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,760
like feeding the prisoners extra
food. 

677
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,280
Like, why are they giving us so 
much food like so Then if that 

678
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,520
happens, they might figure that 
out. 

679
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,520
They're like, Oh my, you know 
what? 

680
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,120
I figured it out, Yo, they're 
going to weigh us and give us 

681
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,760
ransom in in there. 
That's why they're fattening us 

682
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,600
up. 
It's our weight in gold or 

683
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,480
silver or something. 
So then they're like, what are 

684
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,960
they doing? 
Like push ups when the guards 

685
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,080
aren't watching to like lose 
that weight? 

686
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,680
Like I'm going to enjoy this 
food, but I'm going to lose 

687
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,600
those calories. 
I'm not going to, I'm not going 

688
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440
to make the crown pay that much 
for my ransom. 

689
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,960
One handed push ups. 
Yes. 

690
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,760
Yikes. 
That's dark. 

691
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,120
And remember, House Will already
has this reputation. 

692
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,680
This is the same house that took
Prince Amon the Dragon Knight 

693
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,440
captive and hung him over a cage
over a pit of Vipers. 

694
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,240
Baylor. 
The Blessed going to rescue him 

695
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,000
and getting bitten and them 
laughing about it and all that. 

696
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,080
This is the same house. 
They have a reputation. 

697
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,320
Of course, that hasn't happened 
yet, this this timeline. 

698
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,400
But it's going to. 
And you know that when that does

699
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,480
happen with Prince Amy and the 
Bail of the Blessed, they're 

700
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,840
remembering this. 
The the will Lord Will the widow

701
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,640
lover is still known. 
He's still infamous in parts for

702
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,160
an event that we're going to get
to later here in the timeline. 

703
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,000
So yeah, they remember. 
You know, another piece of this 

704
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,080
that I wonder about is 
delivering that gold. 

705
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,000
Think what an effort that would 
have been like gathering it and 

706
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,920
then like protecting it along 
the way. 

707
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,000
You would have needed. 
A good point. 

708
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,880
Right. 
Like there's a lot of motivation

709
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,360
for someone to attack that 
convoys. 

710
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,520
Yeah, I like the loot train 
battle in a Game of Thrones TV 

711
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,280
show with of course, no Dragons 
would have been attacking that 

712
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,080
cause the Dragons would be the 
ones collecting it. 

713
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,679
But still, you're right, that's 
a massive amount of gold going a

714
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:35,040
long distance. 
Yeah, I wonder if they use 

715
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,120
Dragons to escort it. 
I didn't even think of that. 

716
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,760
Maybe, Yeah, maybe that's that's
that's a low pride endeavour for

717
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,080
a dragon rider, but it might be 
what was necessary. 

718
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,000
It'd be a dangerous hand off 
too, especially if the Dragons 

719
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,600
did fall. 
Like, here's the gold, here's 

720
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,159
the prisoners. 
OK, now burn up all the people 

721
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,080
that have the gold. 
Like, yeah, right, that might 

722
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,159
have been part of the condition.
Like, no Dragon, this site. 

723
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,440
We're not handing them over. 
Which might might, they might be

724
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,600
wary of. 
Well, why are they doing that? 

725
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,240
Is that Are they going to do a 
surprise attack? 

726
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:01,720
Like what? 
Yeah, like, I wouldn't trust the

727
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:03,200
Will. 
And if I was the Will, I 

728
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,080
wouldn't trust the Targaryen. 
So yeah, you just got this, this

729
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,520
lack of trust on both sides and 
you can understand why. 

730
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,440
By the way, the the Will Sigil 
is the the Black Adder. 

731
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,760
Black Adder biting a foot, 
coiled around a foot is might 

732
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,160
just be a reference to Black 
Adder, the Rowan Atkinson show, 

733
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,080
the Medieval historical comedy. 
But Nina points out, it might 

734
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,800
also be a little bit of a 
biblical thing. 

735
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,160
It's also not really that 
comedic so. 

736
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,440
Yeah, this isn't funny. 
Black. 

737
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,920
Matters reference to make 
George. 

738
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,400
It's like, by the way, it's not 
hilarious. 

739
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,480
All those hands chopped off and 
poisonings and snakes and yeah, 

740
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,200
that's hilarious. 
Reminds me of that comic. 

741
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,520
So did this escalate things or 
was it just so escalated that it

742
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,960
just like you can't escalate any
more than things already were? 

743
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,720
I would say it probably did 
because you can escalate things 

744
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,040
more as we're going to see 
because things do escalate more 

745
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,040
like this is this is bad maybe. 
This didn't, but it did get 

746
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,880
escalated. 
Yeah, maybe this, yeah, Nina 

747
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,200
says. 
Well, it certainly didn't help 

748
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:04,560
de escalate. 
Yes, that's that's clear. 

749
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,680
There was definitely anger in 
the storm lands, probably anger 

750
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,040
at the Red Keep, and Ori's 
breathing himself was 

751
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,680
permanently pissed. 
I mean, I understandably they 

752
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,640
crippled him like that's his 
his. 

753
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,160
A lot of his identity was 
wrapped up in his sword arm and 

754
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,440
they took it so. 
The the prisoner exchange for 

755
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,040
money itself might have de 
escalated things, but when you 

756
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,440
get the prisoners and her hands 
are removed that's that's the 

757
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,960
thing that would if anything 
escalated. 

758
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,440
It wasn't a surprise to them 
when they got to prison like 

759
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,320
they would have prepped. 
They would have told them before

760
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,480
the transfer, right? 
Oh, don't. 

761
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,000
They didn't. 
Oh, OK, they just found out when

762
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,240
they got him. 
It says it was revealed, yeah. 

763
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,280
The way it's written, it sounds 
like they didn't know that was 

764
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:48,040
coming. 
This might be a a bit of a nod 

765
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,960
or an insult or a needling of 
the Storm Landers because of 

766
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:58,840
what Argalac did to Aegon's 
envoy when he was like, hey, you

767
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,760
know, marry my dog, you know, 
No, I'll marry. 

768
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,600
You can marry my Mary Orice 
himself, the man whose hand was 

769
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:06,360
cut off. 
Right. 

770
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:07,880
And was like, well, that's what 
you did. 

771
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,280
That's what the Stormlanders did
to to Aegon. 

772
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,480
So it's kind of like, Yep, 
little bit of it's not payback, 

773
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,000
but it's, you know, more of the 
same. 

774
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,160
So that's quite a thing. 
Yeah. 

775
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,200
And Orice became obsessed with 
revenge and quit has hand like 

776
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,320
he's basically not long after 
getting back. 

777
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,680
Or maybe immediately. 
He may have already decided to 

778
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,760
quit when he was maimed before 
the the he returned to King's 

779
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,920
land. 
He may have already decided to 

780
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,680
quit, but or maybe he'd been 
pondering it or something like 

781
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,600
that. 
Either way, he was gone. 

782
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,360
Out of the picture, at least for
now. 

783
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,920
He's not. 
His career isn't over. 

784
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,280
We will be returning to him, but
he is no longer a participant in

785
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,280
the first Dornish War. 
Cutting the hands off reminds me

786
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,960
of something else that happened 
under the democracy of Athens in

787
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,960
in the time of the Peloponnesian
War or just around that era. 

788
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,320
They defeated the island nation 
of Aegina, and the quote is so 

789
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,200
that he might forever after be 
disabled from holding a spear, 

790
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,240
yet might handle an oar. 
They didn't cut their hands off,

791
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,040
they cut their thumb off their 
thumbs. 

792
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,760
He could still pull an oar 
because Aegina was a island 

793
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,520
nation that was sometimes under 
the auspices of of Athens. 

794
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,440
They were sometimes like a 
subject and at this point they 

795
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,120
were at war. 
And yeah, so well, you can still

796
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,120
do trade and have have a living,
but you're not going to fight us

797
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,240
with the with that hand. 
So it was kind of, yeah, it's 

798
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,040
kind of a similar vibe, 
something that really happened, 

799
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,240
I guess that would have been 
around the year like 43420 BC, 

800
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:40,760
something like that. 
The replacement for Lord Oris 

801
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,960
was Lord Edmund Tully. 
He's a new Hand of the King. 

802
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,520
He was. 
He's the paramount, Lord 

803
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,680
Paramount of the Trident. 
The same guy who was the 1st to 

804
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,880
turn on Hair in the Black in 
favor of Aegon. 

805
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,920
So Aegon again rewards him for 
his service. 

806
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,680
Apparently it had been going 
well and the man ascended to 

807
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,960
even higher honors. 
So yeah, whether the Widow lover

808
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,240
made things worse or not, 
Aegon's response was certainly 

809
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:05,680
also not like a DE escalation. 
It was just more and more. 

810
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:11,200
He went and burned everything 
the wills owned that he could 

811
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:16,360
get his dragon flame on, but 
that was not super effective. 

812
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,280
Like yes, he gave the Harrenhal 
treatment to their watchtowers 

813
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,320
and their castle and farms and 
fields and stuff, but they hid 

814
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,680
in their caves with their big 
piles of gold. 

815
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,360
How do you sleep at night on top
of a huge pile of money? 

816
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,280
I don't know about the 
surrounded by many beautiful 

817
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,320
ladies part, but maybe that part
too. 

818
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,520
So yeah, that's a pretty big 
deal and and so we're in the 

819
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,040
year 7 AC now and there's an 
interesting factor to consider 

820
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,960
as I said that Oris may have 
been the de facto heir. 

821
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,240
There's no indication he would 
have ever superseded the Dragon 

822
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:55,680
Rider. 
But now we have a son born to to

823
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,880
Raines and Aegon and we're not 
sure when this child was born. 

824
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,160
The child could have easily been
born after the Ransom, but the 

825
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,160
pregnancy, we got nine months of
pregnancy that gets noticed at 

826
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,720
some point. 
So it's probably she was 

827
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:12,760
probably pregnant before the 
ransom was finished, which? 

828
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,640
Is an interesting spot to be in 
there. 

829
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,880
Like they know a kids coming, 
they don't know the gender but 

830
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,520
it's an heir. 
Even if it's a girl, it's an 

831
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,120
heir because it's a child of the
of the Princess or the Queens 

832
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,040
and and the king or one queen 
and the king. 

833
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,040
So we always have to consider 
that when a child is born, don't

834
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,160
forget that there would have 
been months of a child's coming.

835
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,840
We know a child is coming, 
there's a pregnancy. 

836
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,960
This is happening. 
Rainey's was still was probably 

837
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,760
flying meraxes and burning 
castles while she was pregnant, 

838
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,320
which little extra risk, but 
maybe not a whole lot extra 

839
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,080
risk. 
More than she might have thought

840
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,800
though given what happens in a 
few years. 

841
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,080
So. 
But there was negativity about 

842
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:54,440
this kid and you wonder if like 
Dornish agents were maybe 

843
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,920
pushing this angle a little bit.
Start a little turmoil. 

844
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,600
Cause a little rumor in the in 
the royal household that could 

845
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,960
be to their benefit to cause a 
little rift. 

846
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,360
Or just maybe any sort of 
scandal in the royal family 

847
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,960
might affect the war in a 
positive way for Dorne. 

848
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:18,320
The rumor being that Anis was 
maybe not aegons, Raines was 

849
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,000
noted to surround herself with 
young handsome men, and Anis was

850
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,600
weak and sickly and shy. 
Which isn't much a piece of 

851
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,280
evidence, but Aegon being so 
manly and strong that people 

852
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,000
took that as evidence or quote 
UN quote evidence. 

853
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,680
I'm using the finger quotes 
right now and I say evidence. 

854
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,080
Regardless of the truth. 
The rumors were real. 

855
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,680
They real. 
Those really happened and that 

856
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,920
mattered. 
Apparently it didn't go too far 

857
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,680
and the tide started to turn. 
And as far as Amy's strength, 

858
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,160
his boldness of character, 
because the dragon Quicksilver 

859
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,560
was hatched, or maybe around 
this time, I'm guessing a 

860
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,960
little, a little before, maybe 
in the year 6 or even 5, but 

861
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,920
still referred to as a 
hatchling, so it's probably 

862
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,880
still pretty darn young. 
I don't know when the dragon 

863
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,040
ceases to be a hatchling. 
I'm not sure what the timeline 

864
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,160
on dragon growth is. 
You know, like a kitten. 

865
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,640
Apparently cat is no longer a 
kitten after one year. 

866
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,600
I don't know what that I I don't
know that for pretty much any 

867
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,120
other species, even dogs. 
Our cats, on the other hand, are

868
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,120
still kittens to this day. 
Yes. 

869
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,160
Eleven years later, 10 years 
later, they are kittens. 

870
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:23,040
That's right. 
That's right. 

871
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,640
Kitten you you do call Koja 
kitten. 

872
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,760
I do I. 
Do one of them is his kitten to 

873
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,800
Aziz. 
Valerian is still a hatchling. 

874
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,080
It's Aegon. 
Oh, look at the cute little 

875
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,800
murder bomber. 
You know, look at the cute 

876
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,400
little nuclear bomber. 
It's tempting to see Quicksilver

877
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,360
as a spawn of Meraxis, since 
Quicksilver is probably silver. 

878
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,880
Given the name, we don't 
actually know for sure. 

879
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:50,240
It's pretty safe. 
Guess. 

880
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,640
And Meraxis is silver with 
golden eyes. 

881
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,920
So yeah, that's pretty cool. 
We don't know where the timeline

882
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,520
is for Annie's either, do we? 
We don't know, like, quite his 

883
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,800
age. 
I'm just thinking about the idea

884
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,200
it might be a hard rumor to 
battle for the three-year old. 

885
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,040
The the three-year old is shy, 
yeah, and weak. 

886
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,680
Well, all three-year olds are 
weak. 

887
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,000
And how do you define shy at age
3 like? 

888
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,760
Yeah, some. 
Some little babies are like, you

889
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,680
know, go towards the big animal 
and some are just scared of 

890
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:17,800
everything. 
I don't know, there's something.

891
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,880
But that apparently that changed
pretty quickly once Quicksilver 

892
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,280
bonded with Annies and vice 
versa. 

893
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,000
Annies apparently showed more 
baby versions of bravery. 

894
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,840
Whatever. 
Whatever that actually means, 

895
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,280
using Sean's point there. 
And that also for some reason 

896
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,000
since the rumors of paternity 
were somewhat wrapped up in his 

897
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,400
sickliness and weakness. 
Once his sickliness and weakness

898
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,360
started to pass, that also 
tampered down the rumors of his 

899
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,400
his parentage. 
Which I've always found these 

900
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,520
rumors a little fascinating 
because there's also some maybe 

901
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,280
some rumors around Megor and 
Descena, but there's definitely 

902
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,240
nothing certain here. 
But it would be interesting to 

903
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,240
find out that Egg on the 
Conqueror was sterile and he 

904
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:59,040
never actually had any children 
and that both of these heirs 

905
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,520
were not of his body. 
But they are Targaryen. 

906
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,160
They definitely came from 
Raney's and Vicenia. 

907
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,920
There's no, there's no getting 
around that fact. 

908
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,080
It's like it's like the Tyrion 
Targaryen theory, like no matter

909
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,480
who his father is, his mom's 
Joanna. 

910
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,520
That's a Lannister, you know? 
Yeah. 

911
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,320
So. 
Barring time travel. 

912
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,920
Barring time travel, yes, the 
Tyrion time travelling fetus 

913
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,560
theory. 
Aside. 

914
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:31,040
We can't forget such luminary 
ideas, and in our fandom we'd be

915
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,520
remiss to just dismiss that one 
out of hand. 

916
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,160
I mean, man, time travelling 
feti are a real thing. 

917
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,080
Is that how you say plural of 
fetus feti? 

918
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,640
I don't know. 
It is now. 

919
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,400
It's how we say it. 
Yes, Feti. 

920
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,680
I want to find more 
opportunities to use that word. 

921
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:52,520
Feti sounds sort of it's very 
Roman, yes, Feti the no. 

922
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,440
So now you notice that this this
bonding with Quicksilver came 

923
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:01,200
after hatching, which reminds us
that the dragon egg in the 

924
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,920
cradle tradition was not a 
thing. 

925
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,920
Yet that came later, which is 
one of the reasons we can be 

926
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,320
pretty sure it wasn't a thing in
Valyria either, unless it was a 

927
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,560
rediscovered tradition. 
A Re you know, something was 

928
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,000
reimplemented, but it doesn't 
seem to be because it it looks 

929
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:19,000
like it began with Reyna, as in 
first born of King Ainis and, 

930
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,600
well, Prince Ainis at the time, 
and Princess Alyssa, eventually 

931
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,560
Queen King Ainis and Queen 
Alyssa, so they're first born, 

932
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,880
was the one that apparently 
started this. 

933
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,640
Gay Raina. 
What's that Gay Raina? 

934
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,040
Here, I just want to make it 
shorter for any of you were 

935
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,960
like, wait, which Raina Gay 
Raina? 

936
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,600
Yeah, there's there's several 
Rainas it is hard to keep track 

937
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:39,920
of. 
Not as many Rainas as there are 

938
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,520
Aegons, but there's less written
about the Rainas, so we have to 

939
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,600
give them nicknames. 
They don't have numbers. 

940
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,320
Aegons all have numbers. 
And maybe This is why her own 

941
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,880
father became stronger thanks to
bonding with his dragon, right? 

942
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,400
Like he if the closeness, if 
maybe, maybe it's a little magic

943
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,760
involved in there. 
The egg in the cradle might 

944
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,200
start that process earlier. 
If it's magical, then who knows 

945
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,160
what's happening. 
And even more obvious 

946
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,120
association with eggs and 
cradles is Daenerys. 

947
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,440
Like it wasn't her cradle, but 
those eggs were like speaking to

948
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,440
her. 
She was like bonding with them 

949
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,360
in her dream. 
Talk about getting stronger. 

950
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:19,600
Those eggs were a crucial like 
item, a focal point for her, 

951
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,960
growing into the character that 
she became later. 

952
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,280
The hatching was a big leap 
forward in that because it 

953
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,280
proved a lot that was going on 
in your head was actually quite 

954
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,560
real. 
But she got strength from those 

955
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,360
eggs she would like when she 
felt weak, she'd like, I want to

956
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,640
hold one of those eggs, you 
know? 

957
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,400
And I feel like this is a pretty
strong clue to maybe what was 

958
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,240
happening on maybe a smaller 
scale. 

959
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:46,040
Maybe the vibes were there. 
Maybe it wasn't intense. 

960
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,840
Maybe they weren't having these,
like, overwhelming dreams every 

961
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,040
night like Danny was, but they 
might have been having, you 

962
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,120
know, a little something, 
something in there at night. 

963
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,520
You know, some feelings some 
some visions. 

964
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,280
But milder types, You know, 
regardless of that going 

965
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,040
forward, things had changed 
without any military objectives 

966
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,800
being achieved by either side, 
right? 

967
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,920
We've got the royal house having
at least one new dragon to 

968
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,400
probably more like that's not 
mentioned, but Dragons are 

969
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,000
hatching. 
Quicksilver wasn't the only one 

970
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,480
to hatch. 
There's there's the cannibal 

971
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,520
might exist by now. 
Vermathore might have hatched by

972
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,200
now, some of these other Dragons
that matters. 

973
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,720
Like that's just even as there 
aren't a lot of Targaryen 

974
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:26,680
children, there's more Targaryen
Dragons hatching, which for 

975
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160
whatever reason had been at an 
ebb. 

976
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,640
For some reason there weren't as
many Dragons. 

977
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,160
But now the Royal House's 
hatchery was. 

978
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,600
More is going on. 
We don't know why. 

979
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,600
Maybe that's another topic for 
another day, but that just shows

980
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,120
the growing strength of of this 
new Iron Throne. 

981
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:48,280
More Dragons is gonna These 
Dragons will be ridden, you 

982
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,840
know, if and if not by anies, 
then by more children that are 

983
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,080
coming. 
And that perhaps makes him a 

984
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,640
target. 
We haven't gotten to the stage 

985
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,680
of the war when the 
assassinations become common, 

986
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,640
but we're about to in the 
second-half, and you got to 

987
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,720
think if you're willing to chop 
hands off. 

988
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,120
If you're willing to kill anyone
that's coming for you, you're 

989
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,480
probably willing to to kill the 
ones who will be doing that to 

990
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,640
you 30 years in the future, 
which is what will happen if you

991
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,360
allow Annies to become an adult.
Or from their perspective, 

992
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,200
that's actually not how Annies 
is going to operate. 

993
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,080
But they have no reason to 
believe otherwise. 

994
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,000
You know, something else just 
occurred to me. 

995
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,840
We haven't thought about this in
a while, but this sort of new 

996
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,840
revelation that we have about 
this prophecy that Aegon knew 

997
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,520
about that, maybe that's part of
why he didn't make adjustments 

998
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,280
in Dorne. 
He just knew they were going to 

999
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,920
win. 
He may have had some, you know, 

1000
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,480
misinterpreted vision, but some 
vision that Dorne would be part 

1001
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,600
of the Seven Kingdoms and that 
he might have thought that he 

1002
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,160
was going to do it and that what
he was doing was working because

1003
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,000
he had this vision. 
He didn't realize how long it 

1004
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,720
was going to be. 
The drags won't be involved. 

1005
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:57,400
And so on. 
Right on. 

1006
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:03,680
Over two months of drinking 
Magic Mind now and I think I can

1007
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,160
give a little bit of personal 
experience that's slightly long 

1008
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,240
term at least approaching longer
term because that is one of the 

1009
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:15,240
ideas is that it's some of the 
ingredients in Magic Mind don't 

1010
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,440
work immediately. 
They need to build up within 

1011
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,400
your system. 
There's a lot of other 

1012
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,040
ingredients out there that work 
like that, a lot of other things

1013
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,920
for your mind especially. 
So I think I'm noticing it, you 

1014
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,080
know, more with two months in 
and I've got more energy. 

1015
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,640
I was very productive this last 
week. 

1016
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,120
It's always a little bit of a 
struggle up and down for me. 

1017
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,160
Sometimes I'm really productive,
sometimes I'm not trying to get 

1018
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,840
a little more balanced there. 
And so far this year I feel like

1019
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,760
it's been better and maybe 
that's partly attributed to 

1020
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Magic mind. 
What about you, Sean? 

1021
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,800
Well, I had a little break. 
I ran out and ordered more. 

1022
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,160
But I will say overall, I feel 
like I think I mentioned this 

1023
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,200
before. 
I don't feel like I get as tired

1024
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,760
as quick at the gym and I don't 
even know if that's like one of 

1025
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,360
the perks that they advertised. 
Maybe it's a coincidence, but 

1026
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,000
I'd still get sore the next day.
But I don't feel like I I get 

1027
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,160
quite as worn out in the moment 
at the gym, so I think that's a 

1028
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,720
positive. 
And I haven't been tracking it 

1029
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:07,840
scientifically, but anecdotally 
I I must be drinking less 

1030
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,600
caffeine because I just know I'm
not throwing as much recycling. 

1031
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,480
I know as many like cans in the 
bin when I recycle, so I'm 

1032
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,880
pretty sure I'm drinking less 
sodas. 

1033
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,320
Ha ha. 
It's a funny clue. 

1034
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:17,840
That's cool. 
I like that. 

1035
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,240
Yeah, I really appreciate that. 
It's an interesting way to to 

1036
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:24,680
track your your soda intake, but
that seems to it seems to work 

1037
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,040
like you would really notice 
that I could. 

1038
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,760
I could. 
I totally get that they extend 

1039
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,080
ended their January sale to 
February 10th. 

1040
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,400
So if you're hearing this before
February 10th 2024, you can 

1041
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,960
still gear up to crush your 
resolutions. 

1042
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,720
One month for free is what you 
get if you subscribe for three 

1043
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:43,760
months. 
If you go to magicmind.com/jan 

1044
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,320
Westeros, and if you enter the 
discount code Westeros 20, 

1045
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,360
that's an extra 20% off which 
gets you to around 75% off 

1046
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,600
again. 
That lasts till February 10th. 

1047
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,760
That's magicmind.com/jan 
Westeros. 

1048
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,920
If you happen to hear this after
February 10th, you should still 

1049
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,840
be able to get a significant 
deal off and the code Westeros 

1050
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,680
20 should still work. 
We highly encourage it. 

1051
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:08,680
Either way, it's working for us.
Additional productivity? 

1052
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,920
Get on that magic mind, Dornish 
James says. 

1053
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,320
We also think of the Wars of the
Roses taking place from 1455 to 

1054
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,000
1485, but there were long 
periods in that time without any

1055
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,240
battles in one side or the 
other, plotting in exile. 

1056
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,880
Perfect example. 
Very perfect example. 

1057
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,000
Yeah, it wasn't 30 years of 
armies and battles and sieges. 

1058
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,880
There were long periods of other
things like plotting an exile, 

1059
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:37,280
whether it's recouping your 
strength or petitioning other 

1060
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,800
kings around Europe to take up 
their 'cause. 

1061
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,520
These things take time travel, 
etcetera. 

1062
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,520
I mean, just getting from place 
to place is slower in those 

1063
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,360
times then it is now. 
They're not having phone calls. 

1064
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,160
They got to send letters back 
and forth. 

1065
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,360
Just that takes months. 
You know, just everything is 

1066
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,040
slower and they can't act and 
they can't be active in winter, 

1067
00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,680
etcetera, etcetera. 
Yeah, lots of things like that. 

1068
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,000
Jordan's team also says 
Quicksilver's role in making 

1069
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,440
Amy's appear stronger has an 
interesting parallel in brand 

1070
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,680
apparently getting stronger 
during his coma when he could 

1071
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,920
hear the wolves sing. 
That's a very good catch. 

1072
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,840
I like that. 
Yeah, a lot of these sort of 

1073
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:15,480
animal bonding with supernatural
elements are written similarly 

1074
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,440
to enjoy, at least in that 
regard. 

1075
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,920
Like, we have no indication that
there's a communication bond 

1076
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,840
between Dragons and riders, 
other than maybe some emotional 

1077
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,960
flashes here back and forth. 
Like maybe the same kind of 

1078
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,680
things that a dog can interpret 
from their owner. 

1079
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,920
Not like a skin changer where 
they're like seeing through each

1080
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,360
other's eyes. 
That's definitely a different 

1081
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,120
level, but there are 
similarities and this whole 

1082
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,160
getting stronger thing, that's a
that's a good catch. 

1083
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,440
Because yeah, Bran was getting 
stronger, notably when he could 

1084
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,280
hear the wolves singing. 
And that may may be magical, it 

1085
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,280
may just be like very human, 
just as the sound of the wolves 

1086
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,880
is like brings him back to to 
who he is. 

1087
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,680
It helps him draw him out of his
coma and brings him back to the 

1088
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,520
real world, for example. 
I don't know if his anecdote is 

1089
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,280
true, but I just happened to see
it this morning. 

1090
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,480
The guy who was the original 
voice of Bugs Bunny once slipped

1091
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,800
into a coma and the doctor 
actually got him out of the coma

1092
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,240
in part by saying what's up doc 
to him? 

1093
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:14,920
And he would lapse into his Bugs
Bunny voice in a coma and that 

1094
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,880
helped bring him out of it. 
The brain is weird, y'all and we

1095
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,000
don't understand it very well, 
So that stuff applies even to 

1096
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:27,280
fictional brains if you have a 
author who writes authentically 

1097
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,120
and George does in most ways. 
Austin Flowers also writes 160 

1098
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,360
lbs of gold is $4 million in 
today's market. 

1099
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,520
That's a lot of money, but I 
don't know if we should go buy 

1100
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,400
today's market. 
It's just a it's a good, like, 

1101
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,960
way to find our bearing. 
I think it's more than that. 

1102
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,560
I someone can do the math, but I
think an ounce of gold right now

1103
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:48,560
is like $2000, which means a 
pound of gold is. 16. 30,000 

1104
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,240
dollars, 30,000 * 106, I don't 
know if I'm doing that math or 

1105
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,960
not, right? 
But I think it's like a billion.

1106
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,160
I think it's like a billion. 
Well, it's a lot of money and 

1107
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,640
the value of gold is different 
in Westeros anyway. 

1108
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,480
But yeah, it's a it's a huge 
amount. 

1109
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,880
So and and George is that's not 
one of George's strengths is, is

1110
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:12,800
consistency with currency value.
So we would probably not get to 

1111
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,960
a super strong answer if we went
any deeper and I'm not sure we 

1112
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,880
could. 
Anyway, let's move to the year 8

1113
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,520
AC. 
We're told 8 AC was a very dry 

1114
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,520
season, very dry year. 
And that aligns with what we've 

1115
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,040
been saying about the winters 
because in case you didn't know,

1116
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:35,680
the driest season is winter. 
Winter is dry, drier and dawn. 

1117
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,680
It's bad. 
It's bad to be drier in Dorne, 

1118
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,040
but the enemy armies weren't 
there. 

1119
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,360
The Dornish kind of know how to 
handle that, I guess, and it 

1120
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,280
wasn't just like that in Dorne 
quote. 

1121
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,960
In eight ACA very dry year, 
Dornish Raiders crossed the Sea 

1122
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,840
of Dorne on ships provided by a 
pirate king from the Step 

1123
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:02,480
Stones, attacking half a dozen 
towns and villages along the 

1124
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,640
South Shore of Cape Rath and 
setting fires that spread 

1125
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,160
through half the rainwood fire 
for fire. 

1126
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:15,360
Princess Miria is reported to 
have said this was not something

1127
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,040
the Targaryens would allow to go
unanswered. 

1128
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,320
Kind of a ridiculous thing to 
say, right? 

1129
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,440
Like that last sentence. 
It's like unanswered. 

1130
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,200
This is like year four of this 
war now or Year 3. 

1131
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,280
Like you're attacking each 
other. 

1132
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,600
I mean, that's what you do in a 
war. 

1133
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:33,760
Unanswered. 
I mean, yeah. 

1134
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,320
Oh, we'll just let that one go. 
Well, of course. 

1135
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,160
Like you're already in a war, I 
mean. 

1136
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,520
Like this was an answer to 
something the Targaryen did in 

1137
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,160
the 1st place. 
Second of all, what are there 

1138
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,480
some other things that they did 
let go unanswered? 

1139
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,360
Like what? 
Exactly is the question here. 

1140
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,640
If this needs to go unanswered, 
what is the question here? 

1141
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:57,240
I guess this is being written. 
I don't know that it's very pro 

1142
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:58,920
target, you know? 
Yeah, so. 

1143
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,800
But, and it's I, I so I say it's
silly, but it's also authentic. 

1144
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,600
Like this is often how history 
is written. 

1145
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,480
It's like, well, of course the 
Targagons would have an answer 

1146
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,760
to that. 
Well, yeah, they started it. 

1147
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,240
I mean, I I just think it's 
funny to to act like 

1148
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:13,440
provocations even really matter 
at this point. 

1149
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,520
Like, oh, you provoked us. 
Like what? 

1150
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,960
I don't think so. 
I think they're the provocations

1151
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,400
we've wore past the provocations
point here. 

1152
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:25,640
We're we're well into it, you 
know. 

1153
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:27,720
You know, I wonder again. 
It's something we don't quite 

1154
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:29,640
know, but maybe this is 
something that happened after an

1155
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,160
extended. 
Truce. 

1156
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,240
Right. 
Maybe enough time had passed 

1157
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:35,600
without something significant 
happening that this is like, all

1158
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,720
right, that's over. 
We're back at it, You. 

1159
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,400
Know and it's and it is an 
escalation in the sense that, oh

1160
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,920
you're going to you're going to 
blow up and torch all our 

1161
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,040
villages and castles and fields 
and we can do that to you too. 

1162
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,720
That's kind of why I called this
episode Doran strikes back, 

1163
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,960
because they accomplished quite 
a bit considering how much 

1164
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,840
devastation they face. 
They are able to attack 

1165
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,200
Westeros. 
They're able to assassinate 

1166
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,240
people and they're able to not 
give up. 

1167
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,000
Oh, I thought you were going to 
talk about all the backs they 

1168
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,200
were hitting. 
They strike somebody backs. 

1169
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,280
I've been waiting. 
For that to come up. 

1170
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:09,200
Yeah, Sir, mix a lot just got 
back and they. 

1171
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,920
Strike it, you know and. 
They brought Sir Mix a lot into 

1172
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:19,040
this war and and Darth Vader and
yeah this war's getting I told 

1173
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:24,880
you all this war gets crazy we 
got Darth Vader and and Sir Mix 

1174
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,040
a lot I. 
Wanted to bring up something 

1175
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,080
about the the weather, about 
winter, you know, and how it 

1176
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:34,640
would affect water, among other 
things, even if it wasn't like a

1177
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,560
freezing cold winter and dorn. 
But one effect, you know, 'cause

1178
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,800
sometimes you only need a few 
degrees to change to get above 

1179
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,360
or below freezing temperatures, 
right? 

1180
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,920
And maybe in the middle of the 
90° Dornish desert doesn't 

1181
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,640
matter. 
But here in Denver and a lot of 

1182
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:54,240
the the West, the water comes 
from snow melt in the mountains 

1183
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,040
that flows down rivers into 
reservoirs and such. 

1184
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,760
And so if in the mountains it 
stays winter enough for the snow

1185
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,680
to not melt, that means water is
drying up everywhere else. 

1186
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,440
Which is why it's dry. 
Yeah, you're right. 

1187
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,280
That's part of why makes it dry.
It's not that the water isn't 

1188
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,320
there, it's that it's frozen a 
lot. 

1189
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:10,960
Well, in some cases that makes a
lot of sense. 

1190
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,000
Yeah. 
And so it's probably still 

1191
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,400
miserably hot in the desert, but
there's less water in the wells 

1192
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,960
or in the streams that there 
would be from melting in the 

1193
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,080
mountains. 
And so it's you're still kind of

1194
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,240
getting hit by the the heat of 
the desert, but the effects of 

1195
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,360
the weather and something again,
the Dornish would be much more 

1196
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,680
aware and prepared for than the 
any kind of attempted invading 

1197
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,920
armies. 
Which is why they probably felt 

1198
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,200
reasonably confident that armies
might not March on them again. 

1199
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,560
They they were probably also 
confident that the Dragons would

1200
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,000
return, and they'd be right 
about that. 

1201
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,520
I mean obviously Valerian had 
already returned to torch the 

1202
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:49,200
wills lands after the the 
cutting off of the hands, but 

1203
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,120
they all surely knew more 
Dragons were coming as long as 

1204
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,040
this war continued. 
And the big change here too is 

1205
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:01,080
Aegon is no longer the guy who 
can claim to just be taking on 

1206
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,920
leaders and sort of the 
peasantry are mostly being left 

1207
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,000
alone. 
This war has escalated to the 

1208
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,320
point where lots of villages are
getting burned and now we've got

1209
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,640
villages in his king, his 
portion of the Kingdom getting 

1210
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,680
burned too as retaliation. 
So lots of just completely 

1211
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,560
innocent people getting killed. 
People who aren't combatants. 

1212
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,680
Like you could argue that 
certain people forced to fight 

1213
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,920
in the army shouldn't have been,
but these people aren't even 

1214
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,760
lifting A spear. 
These are just completely 

1215
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,440
innocent individuals and people 
who probably already hate 

1216
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,640
Dornishman because they've been 
raided and they're like their 

1217
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,600
families have been raided by the
Dornish in the past. 

1218
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,280
But also, it's pirate king. 
These ships came from some 

1219
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,840
pirate king. 
This is a very underrated little

1220
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,240
aspect here. 
Like that, Dornish have got 

1221
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,680
allies, and they're not 
explicitly mentioned as such, 

1222
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,800
But a pirate king from the Step 
stones. 

1223
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,640
We've all heard about pirate 
kings from the Step. 

1224
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,280
This happened a lot of different
times. 

1225
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,960
Where did the money come from? 
Well, my theory is pretty 

1226
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,080
straightforward. 
It came from those ransoms, 

1227
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,000
right? 
Like they got a big pile of 

1228
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,160
money, and they surely have 
other money too. 

1229
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,720
But that is a very big, big, 
obvious potentially potential 

1230
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,800
source for that cash. 
That's another thing I wondered 

1231
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,200
about the details and the story 
behind where they asking for 

1232
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,440
that ransom because they knew 
they needed the money to hire 

1233
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,680
pirates. 
Or once they got the ransom, 

1234
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,040
they're like, oh, now we can 
hire pirates? 

1235
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,400
Or maybe the pirates, like, hey,
those Dorners just got a big 

1236
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:22,680
ransom. 
Maybe we can go offer our 

1237
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,160
services. 
Like what? 

1238
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,040
What? 
I like that last idea. 

1239
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,760
Like, you know, they're flush 
now. 

1240
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,120
It will help and the and the 
target. 

1241
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:33,360
And like if you're a pirate 
king, you're anti Targaryen. 

1242
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,120
Probably. 
You don't like Dragons. 

1243
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:36,760
You don't want them coming for 
you either. 

1244
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,680
You're the friend. 
Enemy of my enemy is my friend 

1245
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,280
kind of situation. 
The century of blood. 

1246
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:41,920
Let's forget, let's not 
remember, let's not forget. 

1247
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:43,960
Century blood isn't that far in 
the past at this point. 

1248
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,440
And it's not like there's some 
arbitrary end to the century of 

1249
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,360
blood. 
Like, oh, it's been 100 years. 

1250
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,000
Well, that's the century. 
It's over now. 

1251
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,200
It's the century of water. 
I don't know. 

1252
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,680
Century of fire, Blood and fire.
There you go. 

1253
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,840
Yeah, that's another thing that 
would have taken perspective of 

1254
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,920
time to look back and realize, 
oh, that was 100 years of 

1255
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,840
terribleness. 
Whether it's 98 years or 107 

1256
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,280
years, it'll just be called a 
century as more time passes. 

1257
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,440
Yeah, and because there's no 
definitive beginning in it. 

1258
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,400
Well, there is a definitive 
beginning, the Doom, but there's

1259
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,920
no definitive ending. 
And the point being the effects 

1260
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:14,840
of the Doom even 100 years later
still being felt. 

1261
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,040
They're still burgeoning 
kingdoms. 

1262
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,680
The power vacuum is still being 
filled. 

1263
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,480
It was a big big big power 
vacuum to fill the fall of 

1264
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,800
Valyria and it happened so 
suddenly so lots of leaders and 

1265
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,000
and governments are still 
establishing themselves even 100

1266
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,640
years later. 
There's all this turmoil and 

1267
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,680
tumult and chaos that takes a 
while to that's why it was a 

1268
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,320
whole century. 
So yeah, it isn't just 

1269
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,360
everything isn't just all nice 
and clean and and organized now.

1270
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,720
So lots of people probably 
didn't want, didn't like this 

1271
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,400
new situation of the Iron Throne
like these Targaryens like we 

1272
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,720
just got done with dragon Lords 
and now there's a whole new 

1273
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:54,800
royal family on a much larger 
landmass like look ahead, think 

1274
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:56,720
ahead. 
If you're an associate person, 

1275
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,080
you're like what's that going to
look like in 40 years? 

1276
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,640
Are there going to be 20 drag. 
Well, yeah that's kind of that 

1277
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,120
is kind of what happened. 
There's going to be, maybe, 

1278
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,440
maybe took a little longer than 
that, but that is eventually 

1279
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,320
what the what it looked like a a
very powerful royal family with 

1280
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:13,400
a ton of Dragons that could 
theoretically be a threat to 

1281
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,040
people in Essos, especially the 
the Free Cities, the ones who 

1282
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,480
were ruled by Valyria before. 
You know, they know what that's 

1283
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,080
all about. 
The Volunteers tried to conquer 

1284
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,680
them right during the Century of
Blood and the Volunteers didn't 

1285
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,760
have Dragons. 
And part of the reason the 

1286
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:29,920
Volunteers lost was Aegon 
attacked them. 

1287
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,920
So they're like, yeah, all these
things are like kind of scary, 

1288
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:39,480
like we don't want to. 
So you can see why a pirate king

1289
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,960
or several would want to help 
the Dornish in this struggle. 

1290
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,640
Like, yeah, we don't want the 
Targaryen to get more powerful. 

1291
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,200
We don't want them having all of
Westeros. 

1292
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,880
We don't want them coming for us
either. 

1293
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,320
But better to help our enemies 
deal with them rather than face 

1294
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,000
them, you know, head on 
ourselves. 

1295
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:56,480
So yeah, this raiding it would 
have been really brutal. 

1296
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,360
It would have been really nasty 
setting fires. 

1297
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,200
There would have been all sorts 
of assaults and depravities and 

1298
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,080
atrocities. 
And in some ways it would have 

1299
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:04,720
been worse than just straight up
dragon fire. 

1300
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,080
Because you don't have, like, 
when people are involved in 

1301
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,960
raids, you have things like 
sexual assault and and much more

1302
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,880
like personal levels of 
violence. 

1303
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,960
If you can hide from the dragon 
flame, you'll make it. 

1304
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,840
But it's when there's like 100 
dudes running around trying to 

1305
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,160
grab you and do awful things 
that's a different sort of 

1306
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,640
different sort of horror. 
I think I'd rather face the 

1307
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,520
dragon, actually. 
I'd definitely rather face the 

1308
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:27,800
dragon if I was a woman. 
It wouldn't even. 

1309
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,560
It wouldn't even be close. 
I was going to say that and we 

1310
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,040
were talking about how the it's 
so horrible what's coming up and

1311
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,040
like, well, what happened 
already was horrible too. 

1312
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:41,680
But it is a little bit more, I 
don't know, easier to swallow 

1313
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,880
when a bunch of people in the 
army get killed, right, because,

1314
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:46,720
well, they're in the army. 
What do you think was going to 

1315
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,320
happen now? 
Maybe they didn't have a choice 

1316
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,480
about being in the army. 
It's so sad, the families that 

1317
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,920
were left behind everything. 
But as you said that now we're 

1318
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,840
targeting just innocent people 
who aren't, who didn't have 

1319
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,120
anything to do with this choice 
to go to war, don't have any 

1320
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:04,240
control over or resources for 
their defenses or ability to 

1321
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,160
affect it. 
They're just going about their 

1322
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,880
lives and suddenly being 
attacked and raped and murdered 

1323
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,120
and terrorized. 
It's not even a military target 

1324
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,360
like this isn't this doesn't 
help the war at all. 

1325
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,840
It only makes people matter. 
It only is like we got them 

1326
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,120
makes them feel better about 
like we got one. 

1327
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,520
You know we did something to 
them after what they did to us. 

1328
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:23,520
Yeah. 
It's not military help. 

1329
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:25,240
It doesn't do any good in terms 
of the war. 

1330
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,480
So like as much as I'm, I tend 
to side with Dorne because 

1331
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:28,960
they're the the ones being 
invaded. 

1332
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,440
I don't know. 
This is not good. 

1333
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,520
This is not justified. 
Nina wonders if this one of 

1334
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,880
these towns, one of these many 
towns that was destroyed or 

1335
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,240
raided was the Weeping town. 
Weeping Town becomes famous when

1336
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,400
Daron the 1st is assassinated 
and his body lies in state there

1337
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,280
for a few days and then acquires
that name. 

1338
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,160
But it didn't have a name at the
time like well, it probably did 

1339
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,400
to the locals, but not a name 
that would show up on maps or 

1340
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,920
anything very rare as a small 
place like that become famous. 

1341
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,440
And it did for a very specific 
reason. 

1342
01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:01,200
You know 150 British years later
and and this this idea of pirate

1343
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,600
kings, if this pirate king is 
just casually mentioned is 

1344
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,000
helping the Dornish well what 
what other allies did they have?

1345
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,720
Did they get like maybe some 
secret aid like maybe the 

1346
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,400
volunteers or the Lyseni sent 
them some gold on the fly? 

1347
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,360
Like we can't send you any 
soldiers. 

1348
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,640
We don't want the the Targaryen 
to know, but we do want you all 

1349
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,000
to win. 
So we'll send you secret supply,

1350
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:23,480
we'll send you some shipments or
whatever. 

1351
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,320
But even that eventually would 
be difficult to do because like 

1352
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:26,920
where are you, where are those 
boats going to land? 

1353
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:33,440
How are you literally, how do 
you ship goods to rebels hiding 

1354
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:37,360
in deep desert caves? 
Like how do you, how do you 

1355
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,880
supply them that assistance in 
the 1st place? 

1356
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,200
So this is one of the logistical
issues with being a guerrilla 

1357
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,800
forces, even your allies don't 
know where you are to give you 

1358
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,600
stuff like it's like Yikes, like
you're so well hidden that even 

1359
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:50,800
your friends don't know where 
you are. 

1360
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:52,680
And of course the Pirates of the
step stones at this point, who 

1361
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:54,200
knows how powerful they were. 
They might have been quite 

1362
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:55,680
powerful. 
It's not something mentioned a 

1363
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:56,960
lot. 
They weren't a big part of what 

1364
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,640
was going on in Westeros cause 
well, they don't want to mess 

1365
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,000
with the Dragons. 
They don't want to like ships. 

1366
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,800
As we've said many times, ships 
don't do so well. 

1367
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,280
Ships are even more vulnerable 
than people when it comes to 

1368
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,880
Dragons. 
So this was the start though 

1369
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,160
this, this counter invasion of 
sorts, even though it was mostly

1370
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,200
a raid is escalated the 
following year. 

1371
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,280
Let's go to the year 9 AC. 
Another big big year. 

1372
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:25,160
A very eventful Dornish counter.
Invasions take a new form rather

1373
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,040
than raiding. 
We got full blown armies. 

1374
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:31,880
Lord Fowler leads an army of out
of Skyreach and takes night 

1375
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:33,800
song. 
Joffrey Dane. 

1376
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:38,520
Sir Joffrey Dane leads an army 
through secret passes in the Red

1377
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,400
Mountains to emerge near the 
near Old Town and starts 

1378
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,680
ravaging the territory there. 
Sean, does this tell you that 

1379
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,520
it's no longer winter? 
Possibly, yeah. 

1380
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,320
I guess it might be the fact 
that they've gotten the 

1381
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,360
resources together to mobilize 
an army and attack with it that 

1382
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:56,480
a harvest may have come, you 
know. 

1383
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:58,760
Yeah, No. 
Still, I want to say not 

1384
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,920
necessarily because it was a lot
of money for net ransom that 

1385
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,480
might have given enough money to
just buy food from elsewhere to 

1386
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,240
maybe even hire mercenaries or 
buy whatever equipment and ships

1387
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,920
and everything else so. 
Yeah, we don't know that the 

1388
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:15,000
will would have shared that when
fault with his fellow Lords, but

1389
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,000
it would make sense for him to 
do that if he's if it would make

1390
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,400
such a difference in the war. 
Like what good is a pile of gold

1391
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,320
to the war effort? 
You need to be spending that, 

1392
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:23,760
you know. 
Yeah, he's not. 

1393
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,280
Can't feed your people gold. 
You can't equip your soldiers 

1394
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:27,720
with gold. 
He can't go out and use it. 

1395
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,800
He's gonna go partying like he's
a wanted man, basically. 

1396
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:33,880
Not that he even is interested 
in that, necessarily, but so 

1397
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,480
yeah, that's money for the war. 
Yeah, it's entirely possible he 

1398
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,480
spread it around. 
It's entirely possible he funded

1399
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,160
some of these other efforts. 
Or helped at least. 

1400
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,680
Especially given the nature of 
the Dornish. 

1401
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,200
What's the word I'm looking for?
Camaraderie. 

1402
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:48,640
You know, they're all in this 
together. 

1403
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,920
Like it. 
It doesn't seem like any peoples

1404
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,400
or regions are like we're out. 
This is too much. 

1405
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:59,200
They all keep being on board. 
So now the Lord Edmund Tully, we

1406
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,080
said he had become hand in AC-7 
after the resignation of Lord 

1407
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,480
Orius. 
Well, he didn't last very long. 

1408
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:08,880
His wife died in childbirth and 
he he resigned his his position.

1409
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,560
Now I wonder, reading between 
the lines here, was this an 

1410
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,560
excuse? 
Was he just like the war is 

1411
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,600
escalating? 
I don't want to be, I don't want

1412
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:18,960
to be. 
I don't want to be a part of 

1413
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,080
this anymore. 
Atrocities are being committed. 

1414
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,279
This is no longer an honorable 
situation. 

1415
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:25,439
He doesn't want to say that to 
the King's face. 

1416
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:27,680
So he's just like, my wife died.
I got to go. 

1417
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,560
You know, Of course it's 
entirely possible that his 

1418
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,439
wife's death legitimately 
shattered him. 

1419
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,720
That's entirely possible. 
You know, that's entirely 

1420
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,560
possible. 
And of course, obviously her 

1421
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,600
life was the one that was truly 
shattered by her death. 

1422
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,359
But he may have truly like, you 
never know what these political 

1423
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:46,439
marriages like. 
Was she? 

1424
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,359
Was he where they actually love?
Who knows? 

1425
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,399
We don't know much about Edmund.
We don't even know Lady Tully's 

1426
01:08:51,399 --> 01:08:53,080
name. 
So who knows Which is true? 

1427
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,080
But it would be a very good 
excuse if you wanted to leave, 

1428
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:58,800
if you wanted to bail on his 
position because of the way 

1429
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,319
things were going, is a very 
good excuse. 

1430
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:03,880
All the assassinations that 
started happening are going to. 

1431
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:05,399
It's going to start to pick up 
soon. 

1432
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:09,040
If it may be already dead, he 
might not want to be in that 

1433
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,040
particular crosshair. 
He's like, yeah, I'm a target. 

1434
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:12,560
I'm the hand of the king. 
Look what happened to the last 

1435
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:13,439
one. 
You know, I don't want to. 

1436
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:14,960
I don't want to be around for 
that. 

1437
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:17,600
But this is the man who turned 
on Hair in the Black. 

1438
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,800
That was pretty brave. 
So I'm not sure we can pin him 

1439
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,359
as someone that's going to run 
away at the barest threat of 

1440
01:09:22,359 --> 01:09:23,920
assassination. 
So there's a lot of unknowns 

1441
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,359
here, which is a goes to show, 
there's a lot of interesting 

1442
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:29,720
possibilities here. 
This character, if he was ever 

1443
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,359
fleshed out more, well, these 
are the kind of decisions that 

1444
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:35,000
George or whatever writers would
have to make, and they've got a 

1445
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:36,880
lot to work with. 
And again, there might be a 

1446
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,560
parallel to Ned Stark. 
Like, maybe he's brave enough to

1447
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,279
face assassination, but he might
realize his family's in danger, 

1448
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:44,479
right? 
His loved ones might get 

1449
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,439
assassinated. 
Like I'm out. 

1450
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,120
Yeah, so that's a pretty big 
deal. 

1451
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:53,399
Now, another possibility is we 
we have to keep in in mind here 

1452
01:09:53,399 --> 01:09:55,360
is the timing. 
A lot of times we were told 

1453
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,640
several things happened in this 
year, but we don't know in what 

1454
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:59,800
order they happen and that 
really, really matters. 

1455
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,560
For example, when was Amis born?
If Amis was born before the 

1456
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,960
ransom of Lord Oris or after, it
might affect how much they were 

1457
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,880
willing to pay, right? 
If they knew they had a boy, 

1458
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,640
they're like, all right, well, 
we can maybe we don't pay quite 

1459
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:16,960
as much, you know. 
Or or if the kid is, you know, 

1460
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:18,240
they had less negotiating 
levels. 

1461
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:19,480
Well, we don't need auras 
anymore. 

1462
01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:22,480
We got this Francinis now, like,
you know that that's got that 

1463
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:24,840
takes 20% off the top right 
there, you know. 

1464
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,120
But if he hadn't been born yet, 
who knows, you know? 

1465
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:30,360
And it does seem like a cold 
calculation. 

1466
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,040
But the fact is, someone's got 
to make that calculation. 

1467
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,080
Like someone has to decide how 
much do we have, how much can we

1468
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:37,760
afford? 
What value do we get from him? 

1469
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,680
You know, some people maybe are 
purely working off emotion, but 

1470
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,960
someone on there is crunching 
some numbers, you know? 

1471
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,400
That's what actuaries do, right?
They put the value someone's got

1472
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,480
to calculate what life insurance
as well of course someone's got 

1473
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:50,120
to calculate like how much these
premiums cost and that that math

1474
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,920
has to be crunched by somebody. 
Yeah, a similar kind of thing 

1475
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,200
here in a in a much different 
auspices, much different 

1476
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:56,520
scenario. 
But you're still calculating the

1477
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,240
value of a life which is awkward
to say the least but has to be 

1478
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,360
done sometimes. 
And yeah, and there's also the 

1479
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,280
factor of of what I what I was 
building up to rather is the 

1480
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:14,400
death of Rainey's. 
If Lord Tully resigned before 

1481
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:15,800
the death of Rainey, that's one 
thing. 

1482
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,760
But if you resigned after, well,
then that's that's very telling 

1483
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,040
because he's like, oh boy, I can
tell this is going to get so 

1484
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,200
much worse this the escalations 
are going to escalate, even the 

1485
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,520
escalation, even the worst 
escalations will be escalated 

1486
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,400
upon once that happens. 
So that's where I think the big 

1487
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:35,240
unknown is what happened first, 
let's discuss the following year

1488
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,320
was perhaps marked by perhaps 
the most significant deaths of 

1489
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:39,880
the war. 
And though we're not sure what 

1490
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,800
part of the year it happened in,
it's it's so important that 

1491
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,960
we'll start with it. 
So I think this happened after 

1492
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,000
Lord Tully's resignation because
it seems to be that happened in 

1493
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:49,400
year nine and this happened in 
year 10. 

1494
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,120
But these things are all kind of
loose. 

1495
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,960
And of course, I'm referring to 
what happened over the Deep 

1496
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,160
Sands, the death of Rainice 
quote. 

1497
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:01,440
The Targaryen Dragons, bred and 
trained to battle, had flown 

1498
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:06,240
through storms of Spears and 
arrows on many occasions and 

1499
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,720
suffered little harm. 
The scales of a full grown 

1500
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:14,240
dragon were harder than steel, 
and even those arrows that 

1501
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:19,080
struck home seldom penetrated 
enough to do more than enraged 

1502
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:23,040
the great beasts. 
But as meraxes banked above the 

1503
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:27,960
hell hold, a defender atop the 
castle's highest tower triggered

1504
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:33,600
a scorpion and a yard long iron 
bolt caught the Queen's dragon 

1505
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:38,560
in the right eye. 
Meraxes did not die at once, but

1506
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,960
came crashing to earth in mortal
agony, destroying the tower and 

1507
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,720
a large section of the Hellholtz
curtain wall in her death 

1508
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,920
throes. 
Whether Rainey's Targaryen 

1509
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:55,080
outlived her dragon remains a 
matter of dispute. 

1510
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:59,000
We will discuss whether or not 
she lived in the next episode 

1511
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,520
when we're discussing the piece 
and the letter, because those 

1512
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,720
things all very much wrap 
together. 

1513
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,280
But just imagine, this is one of
those moments like we had last 

1514
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:09,800
episode, where I really want to 
try to imagine what it was like.

1515
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,720
As uncomfortable as it is 
because it's it's like so 

1516
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,000
violent, but it's also just so 
epic and crazy. 

1517
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,200
I want to put put yourself in 
both Rainy's place where you're 

1518
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,160
just super confident. 
This is never not work and all 

1519
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:23,000
of a sudden, Oh my God, and it's
just over in a few seconds 

1520
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,480
probably unless she lived. 
Which again, we'll discuss that 

1521
01:13:25,480 --> 01:13:27,360
later. 
As for the Defenders, though, 

1522
01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:30,880
like, which person? 
And it might have been a woman, 

1523
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,240
I say person because at this 
stage of the war, like, first of

1524
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:35,480
all, you're talking about 
soldiers and Westeros. 

1525
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,440
Yeah, it's usually a safe 
assumption that it's a man. 

1526
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:39,120
But in Dorne, you can't be as 
sure. 

1527
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,560
And in a war that's lasted this 
long, you can be even less sure.

1528
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,080
Like, the more men are killed in
war, the more women are pressed 

1529
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:45,480
into battle. 
Like, look at Bear Island. 

1530
01:13:45,480 --> 01:13:47,280
The women are like, it's a 
normal thing for them to fight 

1531
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,720
there because it's such a normal
thing for them to have to fight.

1532
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,600
They're pressed into combat 
because the needs are the need. 

1533
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:53,600
Is that great? 
Right. 

1534
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,000
I could totally assume that 
here, especially for something 

1535
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,040
that maybe doesn't require great
strength, like you got to lay a 

1536
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,760
lever. 
You're pulling a lever on the 

1537
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,320
Scorpion Bowl that doesn't 
necessarily require some massive

1538
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,520
upper body strength. 
All it requires is that you're 

1539
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:09,280
not, like, going to panic. 
And if you're, you know, plenty 

1540
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:11,040
of people can handle that, 
plenty of women can handle that,

1541
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,360
right? 
And this, we don't know who this

1542
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,160
person was. 
Maybe that's a good thing for 

1543
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:18,080
them because they would have 
been targeted for retaliation. 

1544
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,880
Maybe they died in the crash of 
the dragon, maybe he's like the 

1545
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,000
wall. 
Maybe the dragon hit the near 

1546
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,240
where the bolt came from and and
the person was killed in the 

1547
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:29,480
fall. 
So we have no idea who this 

1548
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:31,160
person was. 
This this person is probably 

1549
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:35,720
semi legendary but anonymous 
perhaps to save their life. 

1550
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,800
And their family's lives. 
The way this is going, Yeah. 

1551
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:39,240
Good. 
Point. 

1552
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:40,960
Good point. 
Yeah, So yeah, definitely. 

1553
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,760
Guilt by association is a thing.
Guilt in in quotes here. 

1554
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,920
So it's a huge deal. 
It isn't just the death of 

1555
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,400
Moraxis, who's a powerful weapon
for the Targaryen. 

1556
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,040
It isn't just the death of 
Rainey's, who's one of the 

1557
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,680
Queens and the mother of the 
only heir right now. 

1558
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:59,240
This shoots down, literally, the
notion that these Dragons are 

1559
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:00,760
invincible, that they're 
invulnerable. 

1560
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,400
Dorne again, embarrassed to the 
rest of the Seven Kingdoms, 

1561
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,480
doing something, succeeding in 
something where the all else had

1562
01:15:07,480 --> 01:15:10,080
failed. 
They didn't even come close to 

1563
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,640
stopping the Dragons in the 
earlier part of conquest. 

1564
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,800
But now we have not just 
stopping one killing one, taking

1565
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,120
out their rider. 
Dead or not, she's at least 

1566
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:21,000
captured. 
So that's a huge deal. 

1567
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,720
Like, think again. 
I use Greek history as an 

1568
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:25,840
example. 
The Spartans and their 

1569
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:29,360
unbeatable infantry no one could
beat. 

1570
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,400
They were everyone's afraid of 
them because it had been like 

1571
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,240
100 years since they had been 
beaten in a land battle. 

1572
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,360
And when they finally were 
beaten in a land battle, it was 

1573
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,920
like everyone realized that oh, 
the mystique was gone. 

1574
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:40,640
It's like, oh actually they can 
be beaten. 

1575
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,360
Similar thing here is like 
actually the Dragons can be 

1576
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:44,880
beaten. 
It just goes to show we held 

1577
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,240
out. 
We were brave, we didn't give 

1578
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:48,760
up. 
We got to win. 

1579
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,880
We got a big win that it's just 
a massive blow to the Targaryen 

1580
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,520
because they think, oh, we're 
eventually we're going to wear 

1581
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,840
them down. 
Doesn't look like it now, does 

1582
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,080
it? 
Like, well, maybe they're going 

1583
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,760
to wear you down, right? 
If they can take out a dragon. 

1584
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,600
Not only are you less able to 
wear them down because you're 

1585
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:08,520
have one less dragon, but now 
their morale has improved and 

1586
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:11,080
your morale is hurt on so many 
levels, yeah. 

1587
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:12,640
And now it becomes personal too,
right? 

1588
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:14,080
Which it already should have 
been. 

1589
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,280
It was already personal in the 
1st place to some many so many 

1590
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:18,080
people, but now it's personal to
the Targaryens. 

1591
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,760
I was going to say too on that 
note, thinking about the idea of

1592
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,240
women being pressed into battle,
Some of them might have wanted 

1593
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,800
to get into battle to avenge 
their husbands and their sons 

1594
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:28,000
and everyone that had been 
killed. 

1595
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,080
So we've been ready for it. 
Yeah. 

1596
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,000
Yeah, maybe this. 
Maybe the person that shot down 

1597
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:34,080
Miraxis was one such person. 
It's likely it's it's a 

1598
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,960
guarantee that the person who 
shot down Miraxi's new people 

1599
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,160
had lost friends and family in 
the war. 

1600
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:43,000
Like how could they not? 
Like the whole country was years

1601
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,600
into this conflict and the 
Dragons had come several times. 

1602
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,160
So really interesting, really 
big, really huge moment. 

1603
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:54,680
A big win for the Dornish and 
Nina wonders whether they left 

1604
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:57,720
the wall kind of half destroyed 
as a monument to that. 

1605
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,320
The bones are still there. 
The sun bleached bones of 

1606
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,560
Miraxis are still there. 
That talk about a symbol. 

1607
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:05,680
The skull isn't. 
The skull will be returned and 

1608
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,040
we know that like we see the 
skull in the in the basement. 

1609
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,800
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised no 
one ever, like, came in and 

1610
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,520
like, let me just take a little,
a little bit of this bone and 

1611
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:15,840
make myself a weapon. 
Like, I'm surprised it hasn't 

1612
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:16,800
been. 
Harvested. 

1613
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:17,840
Maybe a little bit that 
happened. 

1614
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,160
Maybe a little bit. 
Maybe like a few people might be

1615
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:23,080
and there. 
Might be like respectful, 

1616
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,400
honorable and not and and be 
know that they'll be sorely 

1617
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,640
punished if they're caught or 
something like that. 

1618
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:32,920
But I could also see the 
someone, an uller or someone at 

1619
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,640
the hill will be like, this is 
the Lord. 

1620
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:37,920
I am the Lord. 
I want a cool weapon. 

1621
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:39,640
Let's do that. 
Like I could see that. 

1622
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:44,400
I totally agree I I head cannon 
now the the the Lord Uller has 

1623
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:46,760
the hilt of his sword is made 
from dragon. 

1624
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:47,200
Bone. 
Yeah. 

1625
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:49,240
I'm like, who's just, so why 
would you not do that? 

1626
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,080
I I don't know. 
Like, I can't imagine having 

1627
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:52,480
that much. 
Like that's a lot. 

1628
01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:54,080
A huge skeleton. 
That's a lot. 

1629
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:54,920
Gigantic. 
Yeah. 

1630
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,160
Miraculous was huge. 
I could think of one potential 

1631
01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:59,560
why you might not. 
It might get associated with 

1632
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:01,280
some sort of curse or something 
like that. 

1633
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,520
Yeah, yeah, I know that's true. 
But I still think it would take 

1634
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:05,800
time for that course to come 
about. 

1635
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,000
So at first, I can imagine 
scavengers of those in power did

1636
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:14,840
get some pieces of it for a 
trophy or a tool or whatever. 

1637
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:17,400
But I can imagine eventually 
they realized, wait a minute, 

1638
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,920
wait a minute, cut this out. 
We want this to stand as a 

1639
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:21,040
monument, you know? 
Yeah. 

1640
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,680
I can see that which is which is
what Nina was getting at with 

1641
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,040
maybe leaving the wall in the 
place or just building a new 

1642
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:28,200
wall around it and just leaving 
the destroyed section and still 

1643
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:29,720
having it closed off elsewhere 
like. 

1644
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:32,080
Do you think there's a 
difference in any of the parts 

1645
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,720
of the bone of a dragon in terms
of efficacy? 

1646
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:38,400
Maybe, like, I don't know how 
you, like, turn a giant rib cage

1647
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:40,680
bone into a handle. 
You know, like, that's just such

1648
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:42,800
a huge thing. 
You know, Like, I could see the 

1649
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,120
rib cage still being there, but 
maybe, like, bits of the tail or

1650
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:48,480
little finger bone or plow, 
little digits of little 

1651
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:50,680
knuckles, things like that could
be used. 

1652
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,320
I don't know. 
Yeah, I know very little about 

1653
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:55,200
bones. 
Like stone or something, I bet. 

1654
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:58,240
I bet one rib could be mini 
handles. 

1655
01:18:58,440 --> 01:19:00,400
Yeah, yeah. 
If you got to somehow break it 

1656
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:04,200
apart, you know with Valyrian, 
steel, Diamond Diamond, chisel 

1657
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:05,320
away those bones. 
Yeah. 

1658
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,640
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1660
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1665
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1666
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1667
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,640
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1668
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:43,360
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1669
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:47,360
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1670
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:49,800
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1671
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,040
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1672
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:54,960
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1673
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,640
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1674
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1680
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1681
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1685
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It's all great. 
So the next section here in our 

1686
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,440
episode is called The Dragon's 
Wrath, and it begins with a 

1687
01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:50,680
quote. 
The next two years were the 

1688
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:55,400
years of the Dragon's wrath. 
Every castle in Doran was burned

1689
01:20:55,400 --> 01:21:00,200
thrice over as Valerian and 
Veigar returned time and time 

1690
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,480
again. 
The sands around the Hell Hold 

1691
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:09,480
were fused into glass in places,
so hot was Valerian's fiery 

1692
01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:12,400
breath. 
The Dornish Lords were forced 

1693
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,800
into hiding, but even that did 
not buy them safety. 

1694
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:21,040
Lord Fowler, Lord Vaith, 
Ladytalland and four successive 

1695
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:25,400
Lords of the Hell Hold were 
murdered, one after the other, 

1696
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:29,640
for the Iron Throne had offered 
a Lord's ransom in gold for the 

1697
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:34,320
head of any Dornish Lord. 
Only two of the killers lived to

1698
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:38,040
collect their rewards, however, 
and the Dornish men took their 

1699
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,280
reprisals, repaying blood with 
blood. 

1700
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:46,080
Lord Connington of Griffin's 
Roost was killed whilst hunting 

1701
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:49,600
Lord Mertens of Mistwood. 
Poisoned with his whole 

1702
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:54,920
household by a cask of Dornish 
wine, Lord fell smothered in a 

1703
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,800
brothel in King's Landing. 
Smothered by what? 

1704
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:01,120
A pillow? 
I don't know. 

1705
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,920
He got really drunk and. 
Then they I like to think it's 

1706
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,720
more pleasant. 
Yes, he was smothered by boobies

1707
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,640
for episode after episode. 
I've been hammering away at the 

1708
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,400
way Aegon presents himself like 
his persona, his like. 

1709
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,680
I dominate. 
I meet you head on. 

1710
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:21,280
I win. 
There's no doubt. 

1711
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:23,880
Who's stronger. 
Straightforward victories is the

1712
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:26,760
name of the game for him. 
No question about cleverness, no

1713
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,120
cunning, just who's the 
strongest without leaving doubt.

1714
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:35,680
But here that's gone. 
Like burning castles for no 

1715
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:38,680
purpose was is one thing That 
was a bit of an escalation. 

1716
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:40,400
But now you're just out here 
murdering people, 

1717
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,880
assassinations. 
This is completely different. 

1718
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:47,400
This is not the Aegon that 
arguably did a good thing by 

1719
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,680
uniting the Seven Kingdoms. 
That man, He killed a lot of 

1720
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,400
people, but you could at least 
argue that he prevented a lot of

1721
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,160
death in the future because 
constant war was a thing between

1722
01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:59,520
all these kingdoms. 
He stopped King Heron. 

1723
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,000
He stopped some of these other 
guys who would constantly fight 

1724
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:04,840
each other. 
Although it's ethically 

1725
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:08,920
questionable to start wars to 
save lives in the future, you 

1726
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,040
can make that argument here that
he saved lives in the long run. 

1727
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:15,360
You cannot make that argument 
about how he handled Dorne. 

1728
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,040
This is just evil, I think. 
I don't think you can say good 

1729
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:20,920
things about this. 
He's not doing it. 

1730
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:22,760
There's no. 
It's really hard to make the 

1731
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,640
greater good argument here. 
There the argument does exist, 

1732
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,840
even if it's a little statue for
the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. 

1733
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,840
And even if you throw in the 
prophecy of saving the Seven 

1734
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,640
Kingdoms from the others in the 
future, I don't think this is. 

1735
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:36,240
You still can't really justify 
that. 

1736
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:39,000
It's a pretty. 
Cool sick move is a revenge 

1737
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,800
though, as far as these things 
go. 

1738
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:45,600
Like your your love, your wife 
and her dragon, or killed or 

1739
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:47,200
kept held hostage, you know, 
whatever. 

1740
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:52,000
But regardless, you're big, mad 
and you want to show your your 

1741
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:55,200
roads. 
I I'm, I it's effective. 

1742
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:57,080
Just be like I have lots of 
money. 

1743
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:01,160
This is what you get when I'm 
actually mad at you. 

1744
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,680
What you faced before was me 
trying to just like, bring you 

1745
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:06,840
into the realm. 
I don't know, like, I agree with

1746
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:10,080
you, it's evil and all that. 
But like he was mad, he was. 

1747
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:11,800
Truly mad. 
Oh, I was holding back before. 

1748
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:12,920
He's like, this is what I can 
now. 

1749
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:14,520
I'll show you what I'm really 
capable of. 

1750
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:16,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, it speaks to how much he 

1751
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:19,400
cared that he he. 
I mean, both about Rainey's 

1752
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,720
herself and I'm sure about 
Meraki's. 

1753
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:24,840
About the dragon, their power, 
or the humiliation aspect, yeah.

1754
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,000
He loved her like, you're right.
Like he loved Rainey's. 

1755
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,920
It seems pretty clear. 
Like as much as he it's hard to 

1756
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,320
maybe understand what love means
to a person like that. 

1757
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:35,200
But he. 
I mean, he loved. 

1758
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:36,800
That was his sister and his 
wife. 

1759
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:39,040
I mean, like he knew her since 
there, that's. 

1760
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:40,120
Hard to understand. 
Too. 

1761
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,520
Yeah, that's hard to understand.
But he's known her in his entire

1762
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:46,920
life, you know? 
Yeah, yeah, he's like a year and

1763
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:48,440
a half older than her, two years
older than her. 

1764
01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:50,480
They were a very tight knit 
group even and he obviously 

1765
01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:53,560
favored her over Vicinia and 
personality wise and in bed 

1766
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,720
wise, which those are probably 
very related. 

1767
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:56,480
How? 
Depressed. 

1768
01:24:56,480 --> 01:24:59,440
The other Dragons are too, 
probably by this loss, like 

1769
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:02,320
Keenan or whatever, from Raxi's 
upset. 

1770
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,480
Yeah, and probably, if we're 
right, that Dragon's emotions 

1771
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:10,840
and the the emotions of the 
Targaryen's feedback and forth. 

1772
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:14,520
Delerion would have been ornery.
Yeah, And it would have been 

1773
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:17,160
Egon, more ornery, vice versa. 
They would have had like a 

1774
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:20,160
vicious, you know, the. 
Trickle down effect at court. 

1775
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:20,960
Yeah. 
No, don't get on. 

1776
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:24,760
Don't, don't, don't say, don't 
get on his bad side today or the

1777
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:28,440
next year or two. 
You know, he's Aegon's real, 

1778
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:30,400
really, really mad. 
Like we. 

1779
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:34,960
We want to understand or justify
this, but in the end, he's just 

1780
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:38,400
going through what thousands and
thousands of other people went 

1781
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:40,280
through too. 
They just don't have his 

1782
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:41,800
privilege. 
They just don't have the ability

1783
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:43,320
to exact this revenge. 
They would have. 

1784
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:47,080
They would have I, I do a lot of
them would have not all of them.

1785
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:48,640
Lots of them would have been 
like stop it. 

1786
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,800
Lots of them would have taken 
the Ilaria sand route of it all.

1787
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,560
And I'm like, where where does 
this stop? 

1788
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,640
Where does this end? 
Like it ends with me. 

1789
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:58,840
This is at the heart of why real
world governments don't want 

1790
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,280
their citizens owning massive 
weapons of destruction. 

1791
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:05,440
Because just any random person 
could get really mad and just, 

1792
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:09,920
yeah, 'cause massive 
devastation, yeah. 

1793
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:12,800
Just a little bit of 
devastation, which also sucks, 

1794
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:15,920
but at least it's manageable. 
Yeah, just imagine if everyone 

1795
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:18,600
had a dragon and. 
Yeah, I mean, you can cause a 

1796
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:20,200
lot of damage with your knife if
you go out of. 

1797
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:21,080
Your car? 
Yeah. 

1798
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:22,560
I mean. 
You can't. 

1799
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,760
You can go out with a car and 
you can cause a lot of damage, 

1800
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:26,880
but you could cause more if you 
had a plane and you flew it. 

1801
01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:29,880
In even a little prop plane can 
do a lot of damage, it's true. 

1802
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,360
And some of those things we 
mentioned too, though at least 

1803
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:34,720
they have all these other 
values, right? 

1804
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:36,040
Like it's. 
I can't tell. 

1805
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:39,160
I tell you how much I just, I 
dream of a world where the 

1806
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:43,000
Dragons get used to, like haul 
equipment and transport people 

1807
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:44,640
back and forth. 
Just use for productive, 

1808
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,720
innovative things instead of 
just weapons of war anyway. 

1809
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:53,120
I would actually love it if 
anyone knows any fantasy series,

1810
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:55,320
books or games. 
Or, well, that's a thing. 

1811
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:59,920
Yeah, I would like to know about
Dragons is like long haulers is 

1812
01:26:59,920 --> 01:27:04,320
like as Yeah, I would like to. 
I'm sure that it exists in some 

1813
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:06,520
franchise, so please let us 
know. 

1814
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,440
Clearing paths for roads. 
Yeah, doing like productive and 

1815
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:12,960
like BE he's been used for 
industrial. 

1816
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:16,080
Work they can, he just. 
Picture a dragon with a hard hat

1817
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,680
and some coveralls. 
Caution Dragon. 

1818
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:25,640
Yeah, cat calling. 
The women that walk by. 

1819
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:30,760
Driving calling. 
A Lord. 

1820
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:32,600
So we've already established 
earlier in this episode that a 

1821
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:34,760
Lord's ransom in gold is a 
pretty huge amount. 

1822
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:36,960
If it's weight or weight based 
or not. 

1823
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:40,400
It's a lot of money, right? 
4 Lords of the Hellhole, The 

1824
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:43,040
sight of Raines's death. 
That's crazy, right? 

1825
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,600
Four in a row were murdered. 
And what were the payouts for 

1826
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:46,960
this? 
What were the ransoms for? 

1827
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,520
For these? 
What were the bounties on these 

1828
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,200
Lords like? 
Well, this much for a Fowler, 

1829
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:56,640
this much for a Martel, even 
more for a for for an Uller, 

1830
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:58,400
'cause they're the that's the 
house that killed Rainey. 

1831
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,400
So that's why four and I I kind 
of suspect the the rate was 

1832
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:04,000
higher for Ullers cause four in 
a row were killed. 

1833
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,200
Like that's wild. 
Like how do they keep getting 

1834
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:08,160
them? 
Like where's your guards, man? 

1835
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,040
Do you like I guess the money 
was just that tempting or these 

1836
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,640
were these non Dornish people 
that somehow snuck in there and 

1837
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:16,640
were able to pull this off or 
were these Dornish men turning 

1838
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:20,560
against their own for this huge 
amounts of money that they were 

1839
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:21,640
being given. 
I mean, you can't always tell 

1840
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:23,640
who's Dornish and who isn't, but
you often can. 

1841
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:26,920
So this is where I wonder, like 
appearances and where they're 

1842
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:30,680
like, did racism and prejudice 
start 'cause we're like we can't

1843
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:33,480
trust anyone who's not Dornish, 
or maybe we can't even trust 

1844
01:28:33,480 --> 01:28:35,920
other Dornish. 
If I mean 4 Lords of the hell 

1845
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,240
Holden succession murdered. 
Like, we're not talking about a 

1846
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:41,040
very long period of time here. 
This is like within a year or 

1847
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:43,960
two or three, I guess four at 
most. 

1848
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:48,240
That's that's crazy, right? 
You know another thought in this

1849
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:52,360
in this realm, is it once Aegon 
is maybe making it personal and 

1850
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:54,880
assassinating people whatever, 
Like what do you think 

1851
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:57,120
individual Lords might do? 
That's making it personal too. 

1852
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:57,680
Yeah, even. 
War. 

1853
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:01,440
Yeah, like they might have also 
wanted to go assassinate 

1854
01:29:01,440 --> 01:29:04,160
somebody for revenge, but some 
code held them back. 

1855
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:06,160
Or but not well, the kings doing
it. 

1856
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,240
I'm doing like some of these 
assassination might not have 

1857
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:10,360
been Aegon, it might have just 
been individual Lords of 

1858
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:12,400
different castles or realms that
have been attacked by the 

1859
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:13,840
Dornish. 
Vice versa. 

1860
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:15,240
That's a great point because 
that's what I was saying. 

1861
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,800
It's like, well, Aegon was 
conducting himself honorably as 

1862
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:20,080
a conqueror, you know, none of 
this. 

1863
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:23,600
But now he's not. 
Arguably easier to argue that 

1864
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:25,360
he's not than than he wasn't 
before. 

1865
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:28,480
But yeah, the gloves are off 
kind of thing like well, if he's

1866
01:29:28,480 --> 01:29:30,200
not going to duck himself 
honorably, then we're not 

1867
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,000
either. 
Like yeah, we have to sink to 

1868
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,720
his level. 
And it worked like there was 

1869
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,120
murders on both sides. 
You see Lord Connington murdered

1870
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:41,760
in while hunting. 
Like I'm very curious to know 

1871
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,560
about the circumstances. 
Lord Merton's like this his 

1872
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:46,920
whole household poisoned by a 
cast of Dornish wine. 

1873
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,680
I bet that stopped trade of 
Dornish wine. 

1874
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:51,800
People are like, I'm not 
touching that, you know, no 

1875
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,080
Dornish wine for a while. 
It was a while before anyone. 

1876
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:57,600
But why do people hiring food 
tasters and things like that? 

1877
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,880
You just the anxiety, the 
paranoia that just anyone could 

1878
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,240
murder you because the price on 
your head is so high. 

1879
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:06,200
Like how do you live like that? 
And this is going to be true for

1880
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,600
Stormlands Lords, Richman Lords 
and Dornish Lords. 

1881
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:11,760
Probably less so for the farther
N you go. 

1882
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:13,960
They're not so worried, like 
Lannister Lords or western 

1883
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:15,760
Lords. 
They're not worried Northern 

1884
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,400
Lords are ignorant. 
A lot of this is even happening 

1885
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:20,560
so. 
A lot of this activity on both 

1886
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:23,400
sides is what we would define 
today as terrorism, you know? 

1887
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:24,600
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, you're totally right. 

1888
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:25,160
Yeah. 
This. 

1889
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:27,640
I mean, and it's you can see why
this is terrifying. 

1890
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:29,080
Like how? 
How do you live? 

1891
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:32,120
With people are suddenly afraid 
to, you know, go out in the 

1892
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:34,800
woods or eat their food or drink
their drink, you know? 

1893
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:38,720
In their own home. 
Lifetime activities, even of 

1894
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,000
relatively innocent people, are 
suddenly now in jeopardy soon. 

1895
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:43,800
I don't know wait to the end to 
bring up this comment from 

1896
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:45,840
Dornish name. 
I wonder if there were any 

1897
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,760
murderers that were blamed on 
this conflict that actually had 

1898
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,760
nothing to do with it. 
Yeah, like, I just hate that 

1899
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:52,360
guy. 
And was. 

1900
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:54,760
Like, yeah, I just hated that. 
Guy did that. 

1901
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:00,680
I love that idea. 
Yeah, like. 

1902
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:02,280
And that brings me to another 
point. 

1903
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:04,960
Like the Targaryens are offering
these huge ransoms for like any 

1904
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,720
Dornish Lord, and maybe more for
an uller, maybe more for a 

1905
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:08,520
Martel. 
I don't know. 

1906
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:12,880
But were the Dornish assassins 
getting paid for their kills the

1907
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:14,880
same way? 
Like, did the Dornish Lords put 

1908
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:16,920
bounties on? 
Like did they have as much money

1909
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,040
to offer the Will? 
Might, but I don't know if they 

1910
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:20,360
had the same level of cash these
are. 

1911
01:31:20,480 --> 01:31:24,000
These might be more like loyalty
murders rather than I'm getting 

1912
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,680
paid. 
If the Adornish assassins were 

1913
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:29,560
getting paid for their kills, I 
suspect it was less money 'cause

1914
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,120
I don't think Doran had as much 
money to give unless you're the 

1915
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:33,560
will. 
It might have been water 

1916
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:35,520
rations. 
Murders, yeah. 

1917
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:37,440
You kill this man, you. 
Go. 

1918
01:31:37,480 --> 01:31:40,360
We just need water. 
Gallons of water. 3 gallons. 

1919
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:43,720
Oh my God, that's so much. 
Never mind that they don't have 

1920
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:47,920
gallons, but they surely have 
some unit of measure. 

1921
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:53,040
And this mention of in the quote
of how the sands around the 

1922
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:58,920
Hellholt were fused into glass, 
that is perhaps a reference to 

1923
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:02,360
the nuclear testing which would 
be fresher on people's minds 

1924
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:04,480
given the movie Oppenheimer, 
which I haven't myself seen. 

1925
01:32:04,480 --> 01:32:07,320
But I know that is the Trinity 
atomic bomb testing. 

1926
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:10,840
There was glass in the sand 
after that was super heat. 

1927
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:13,760
So Dragon tells you a little bit
how hot dragon fire is. 

1928
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:16,640
It's up there can make the the 
sands turn to glass. 

1929
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:19,520
That's crazy to think about. 
Does anyone have dragon glass? 

1930
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:21,480
Sand. 
Dragon glass? 

1931
01:32:21,480 --> 01:32:24,000
What do you call that? 
Dragon sand some. 

1932
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,160
Some haulers might have cracked 
some pieces off and put little 

1933
01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:31,240
panes of glass in there. 
Can you get the nuclear? 

1934
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:35,600
Can you get the trinitite that 
substance sand became in the 

1935
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:37,280
area? 
One is. 

1936
01:32:37,480 --> 01:32:39,080
Nuclear glass. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1937
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,720
Can you get that one now? 
Two, could you get it at a 

1938
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:45,280
certain point when it was not 
contaminated or something? 

1939
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,560
Like maybe you couldn't get it 
five years later, but maybe now 

1940
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:49,880
is it? 
Radioactive. 

1941
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:50,240
I don't. 
Know. 

1942
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:53,160
Yeah, I don't know if we can get
trinitite, but that's what it's.

1943
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:55,200
Called I I don't, I don't know 
the answer to that. 

1944
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,800
That's very interesting. 
So continuing, and this is the 

1945
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:02,560
year 10 AC, each Dorn is castle 
burned at least once by Veigar 

1946
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,440
or Valerian except Sunspear. 
So this is another strategy they

1947
01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:08,200
were going for. 
They were apparently trying to 

1948
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:11,720
turn the Dornish against 
Sunspear to make to to get 

1949
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:15,800
people to believe that Sunspear 
cut a side deal to avoid burning

1950
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:22,160
while letting their rest of the 
countrymen take this suffering 

1951
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:23,320
on them. 
It didn't work. 

1952
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:25,560
They they didn't Dornish didn't 
fall for that. 

1953
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:26,640
They're like they were two 
united. 

1954
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:27,720
They were like, yeah, that's 
not. 

1955
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:31,000
Maria didn't turn against us. 
It wasn't. 

1956
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:32,680
I don't think this was a very 
good try. 

1957
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:35,160
And the reason it's a rumor is 
because it's not proven. 

1958
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,920
But they're fire and blood goes 
into detail about finding 

1959
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:39,360
letters that seems to prove 
this. 

1960
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:41,360
I'm like it seems like it 
definitely happened. 

1961
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:43,720
It just wasn't a very good plan.
There could have been another 

1962
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:45,200
variable too. 
Maybe there were a lot of 

1963
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:48,800
scorpions around Sunspear, you 
know, they maybe had better 

1964
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:52,040
defenses of all sorts. 
That might have been like not 

1965
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:56,600
only is there some strategic 
value to not attacking him, that

1966
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:58,600
maybe it'll turn the rest of the
country against him, but also 

1967
01:33:58,600 --> 01:33:59,680
they're more difficult to 
attack. 

1968
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:01,680
They're farther away. 
They might have had more defense

1969
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:03,920
and resources. 
Yeah, and there was the mention 

1970
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:07,120
last episode about the rumor 
that they had sent away for to 

1971
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:12,080
lease for some sort of anti 
dragon year, which ironically 

1972
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:13,240
that happened to the Hell Hold 
instead. 

1973
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:15,960
And it wasn't any it was just a 
Scorpion bolt, which is already 

1974
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:20,680
sort of a standard issue thing, 
which might have been, there 

1975
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:24,680
might have been an uptick in in 
need for those, given that's one

1976
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:27,000
of the few things that can hope 
to hurt a dragon. 

1977
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:30,120
Let's say yes, you can 
definitely purchase Trinitite. 

1978
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:31,880
You can. 
So is it not radioactive? 

1979
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:34,440
Yeah, it's not. 
I mean, it's not radioactive, 

1980
01:34:34,440 --> 01:34:39,480
but it's it's very limited for 
obvious reasons. 

1981
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:41,240
There's not a lot of it. 
There's ways. 

1982
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,480
They prove it on the desert. 
There'll be plenty. 

1983
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:46,520
You mean you can test it for 
authenticity and stuff using 

1984
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,120
spectrographs? 
And I don't know, you buy very 

1985
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:54,440
small samples, so yeah. 
Anyways, it's a risky thing to 

1986
01:34:54,440 --> 01:34:58,200
deal with, apparently. 
All right, well, the the 

1987
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:00,600
escalations continued to 
escalate. 

1988
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:03,000
The retaliatory murders 
continued. 

1989
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,640
They kept targeting Lords of the
Stormlands and the Reach, but 

1990
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:10,720
they also aimed higher. 
Quote The king was attacked 

1991
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:13,640
thrice and would have fallen on 
two of those occasions but for 

1992
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:16,840
his guards, Queen Vicinia was 
set upon one night in King's 

1993
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,040
Landing. 
Two of her escorts were slain 

1994
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,160
before Vicinia herself cut down 
the last attacker with dark 

1995
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:24,240
sister. 
Remember that we're still early 

1996
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:27,040
in King's Landing's development,
and there's no Red Keep, so 

1997
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:30,760
defense and security of the 
Royals is not what it is now. 

1998
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:33,880
It's again is a point about 
Anis, right? 

1999
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:37,720
I would, if I were a dragon 
rider, sleep in a room with one 

2000
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:41,480
door and my dragon sleeping in 
front of that door with it 

2001
01:35:41,480 --> 01:35:43,160
pressed against it. 
So there's no way in. 

2002
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:46,360
Now that would be a problem if 
the dragon died and it's sleep, 

2003
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:50,040
I would be trapped in there. 
But you know still that's what I

2004
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,880
would do if this was the state 
of affairs with assassins going 

2005
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,360
everywhere. 
I'm not as brave as as Aegon and

2006
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:57,960
Vicinian Rainey's though. 
So hey, let's also check in with

2007
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:00,000
King's Landing and see that it's
grown. 

2008
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:02,440
It's it's rapid growth has 
continued. 

2009
01:36:02,440 --> 01:36:05,840
It's only 10 AC, and it's 
already as big as Gull Town or 

2010
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:08,760
White Harbor. 
Technically it's about 12 years 

2011
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:11,760
old or 11 years old, because 
remember it, it started to 

2012
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:16,040
become a thing before the 2nd 
coronation, which is what 10 AC 

2013
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,360
refers to. 
But we're we're only adding an 

2014
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:19,400
extra year, year and a half 
there. 

2015
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:22,640
That's still like a an 
astonishingly large place in 

2016
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:26,000
such a short period of time. 
Not unrealistic, but way faster 

2017
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:27,960
than anyone probably expected 
it. 

2018
01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:31,160
And the problem there and and 
there's a lot of things we can 

2019
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:33,120
say about the growth of King's 
Landing. 

2020
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,160
But if we're sticking to the 
topic of assassinations, a big 

2021
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:41,680
new ungoverned, unmanaged sprawl
of a city that's like they're 

2022
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:44,520
struggling to keep up with its 
growth, there's tons of places 

2023
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,840
to hide and plan, like some 
hitman or whatever. 

2024
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,000
There's this. 
Be really easy for them to evade

2025
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,760
authorities and blend. 
Almost everyone is new in town, 

2026
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:56,400
so it's easier to find someone 
that can't be recognized or 

2027
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,080
who's willing to do something or
whatever. 

2028
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:02,080
I want to say this. 
This is a minor tangent, but a 

2029
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,240
couple things I want to say. 
One is that the population will 

2030
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:10,120
be even more explosive soon, 
because people will start having

2031
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:12,960
kids like almost all the 
population there has come there 

2032
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,000
from elsewhere. 
But now that population will 

2033
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,920
start to have will create new 
generations. 

2034
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:19,080
New people will still keep 
coming from other places. 

2035
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:23,080
But the other thing is certainly
it was, you know, less stable 

2036
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:27,080
than than most other cities. 
But I seem to remember way back 

2037
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:29,320
thinking about the idea that 
Aegon, when he was traveling 

2038
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:32,480
around before he even declared 
war or whatever, was probably 

2039
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:34,360
learning about how to build a 
city. 

2040
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:36,840
He's probably learning about 
infrastructure and such that 

2041
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:40,320
cities would need because he had
this idea in his mind of 

2042
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:42,560
creating what came to be King's 
Landing. 

2043
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:46,240
I bet he had some some 
groundwork set up, especially 

2044
01:37:46,480 --> 01:37:49,760
again because we know he brought
in words from all the other 

2045
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:51,560
families. 
I bet there was a lot of 

2046
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:54,000
planning ahead of time for this 
city's growth. 

2047
01:37:54,040 --> 01:37:56,360
It probably wasn't complete 
chaos, even though it wasn't 

2048
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:58,480
completely stable either. 
It wasn't planned like, it 

2049
01:37:58,480 --> 01:38:00,520
wasn't like, you know, it wasn't
like a city that they're like, 

2050
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:03,360
OK, this is streets are built on
a grid. 

2051
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:06,280
Yeah, it was just people just 
build stuff where they want to. 

2052
01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:08,440
Like I'm going to build a house 
right here and no one's. 

2053
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,200
There's no zoning or anything 
like. 

2054
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:11,000
That, well, that's what I'm 
saying. 

2055
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:13,280
I wonder if there was some 
zoning, if there was a great. 

2056
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:15,960
There might have been something.
Had done some research ahead of 

2057
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:18,000
time. 
The text kind of where. 

2058
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:19,280
The case not happened to build a
city. 

2059
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,360
The text kind of says no to that
like kind of just things kind of

2060
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:23,440
just happened things just kind 
of. 

2061
01:38:23,440 --> 01:38:25,360
I mean it's not super specific 
there. 

2062
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,440
There might have been some 
planning like certain areas may 

2063
01:38:27,440 --> 01:38:29,480
have been designated. 
Well, no one can build here 

2064
01:38:29,480 --> 01:38:31,880
except the king. 
I I I'm sure things like that 

2065
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:34,640
happened, but it sounds like a 
lot of it was pretty haphazard 

2066
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:36,240
either way. 
It wasn't. 

2067
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:40,440
It was a thing regardless, like 
lots of a fast growing city that

2068
01:38:40,440 --> 01:38:42,640
they probably didn't plan to 
grow this quickly. 

2069
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:45,160
And yeah, lots of danger 
inherent to that. 

2070
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:48,480
Lots of management, lots of time
needs to be spent like managing 

2071
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:49,840
all that. 
A lot of that would have been on

2072
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:54,120
Vicenia and the small council. 
Even if it was well planned and 

2073
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:56,960
orchestrated, they probably 
didn't account for the fact they

2074
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:59,760
would still be at war with Dorn 
and the dorm of assassinating 

2075
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:01,720
people and poisoning people and 
all this other stuff. 

2076
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:03,640
Yeah. 
So Vicenya also takes to 

2077
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:05,480
sleeping in armor. 
She's sleeping in her armor, 

2078
01:39:05,480 --> 01:39:07,800
which is interesting because of 
right around this time, she's 

2079
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:09,120
pregnant. 
A little bit harder to sleep in 

2080
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:10,840
armor when you're pregnant. 
It's a little harder to sleep in

2081
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:12,960
general when you're pregnant, so
she was toughing it out quite a 

2082
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:14,840
bit. 
All the more important to sleep 

2083
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:16,640
in the armor when she's 
pregnant, though. 

2084
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:19,600
Yep, all the more need for the 
breastplate or the stomach 

2085
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:23,120
stretcher for that to fit. 
But you know she's got The 

2086
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:25,000
Smiths for that. 
You know she can, she can handle

2087
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:27,920
it. 
So she twice fought off Dornish 

2088
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:30,840
attackers that came for her 
brother and fought off some that

2089
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:33,160
came for her, maybe while 
pregnant. 

2090
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:36,840
You know, we got that same math 
when we're considering when a 

2091
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:39,040
nice was actually conceived 
versus when he was actually 

2092
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:40,960
born. 
Megor was born in the year 10, 

2093
01:39:41,200 --> 01:39:44,920
so she was pregnant early year 
10 or late year nine or 

2094
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:46,400
something like that mid year 
nine. 

2095
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:49,040
So by the time this is 
happening, she's pregnant. 

2096
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:54,880
She's been pregnant for a bit, 
and that might help explain 

2097
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,160
something that was probably 
necessary anyway. 

2098
01:39:57,280 --> 01:40:00,440
The formation of the Kingsguard 
that happened in the year 10 AC.

2099
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:02,680
Right around the time Mega was 
born. 

2100
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:05,360
Very interesting to consider. 
Now Vicenia is saying, you got 

2101
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:06,760
it. 
You know your guards are slow, 

2102
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:08,560
you need more work, you need to 
be protected. 

2103
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:10,840
I'm cutting you in the face to 
prove this. 

2104
01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:14,480
We've talked about that before. 
Aegon finally agreed. 

2105
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:20,640
And Vicenia got it right. 
She said he's like, well, OK, 

2106
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,200
then we'll we'll have a 
tournament and the best warriors

2107
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:25,200
will become the first king of 
art. 

2108
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:27,920
She's like, no, you dummy. 
It's not about being the best 

2109
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:29,360
warrior. 
It's about loyalty. 

2110
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:31,280
Who will give their life for 
you. 

2111
01:40:31,440 --> 01:40:33,960
That's what we want. 
That matters more than skill. 

2112
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:37,680
Of course you don't want 
unskilled, you know, kamikaze 

2113
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:42,080
Drone guards. 
But you, that's the number one 

2114
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:43,840
is loyalty. 
Secondary is how good of a 

2115
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:46,360
fighter they are. 
She's so right about that. 

2116
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:49,960
And it's interesting that 
someone like Jahari's got that 

2117
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:51,560
wrong. 
He was like, let's have a 

2118
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:54,160
tournament. 
John Connington doesn't like 

2119
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:57,680
Duck in Aegon the 6th Kingsguard
because he doesn't think he's a 

2120
01:40:57,680 --> 01:40:59,640
good enough fighter. 
But Aegon's like Duck will die. 

2121
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:04,080
For me, that matters more. 
So this young Aegon, he gets it.

2122
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:07,840
He understands the point of the 
Kingsguard better than almost 

2123
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:10,640
everyone who came in between him
and Visenya, even though he's 

2124
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:12,680
actually probably not part of 
their dynasty. 

2125
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:15,600
Maybe he is. 
We'll count it for black fire 

2126
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:17,800
purposes. 
He's a He's a relative of 

2127
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:21,320
Asenia, most likely. 
I could see lighting one or two 

2128
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:24,640
people on the Kingsguard based 
on skill 'cause it won some 

2129
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:27,160
tournament or something. 
Yeah, but not all of them. 

2130
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:29,600
Not the commander. 
Not the commander, Yes. 

2131
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:31,240
Well said. 
Yeah, maybe one or two just to 

2132
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:34,080
That way the IT raises the 
overall profile. 

2133
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:36,040
Oh, that guy's a member of that 
squad. 

2134
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:38,760
And maybe their their loyalty 
maybe makes him a little more 

2135
01:41:38,760 --> 01:41:40,040
loyal. 
As well. 

2136
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:43,280
And that and the skilled ones 
might bring up the skill level, 

2137
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:45,600
the other loyal ones too, right?
Someone to train with who's so 

2138
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:47,200
much so expert. 
Or whatever. 

2139
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:49,200
And again, earlier I brought up 
how there wasn't much talk of 

2140
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,880
poison, how Dornish are known 
for poison, and I don't think 

2141
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:54,040
that's entirely deserved. 
It's not that they don't use 

2142
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:57,920
poison or the Red Viper 
certainly did many times, but 

2143
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:02,360
he's just one guy, right? 
If you're going to try to murder

2144
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:06,480
Aegon, Vicenya, or these 
children, these royal children, 

2145
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:10,160
don't you think that maybe 
poison would have been one of 

2146
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:12,000
their? 
There's no word about it at all,

2147
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:14,600
no, no mention of poison limits.
Maybe that's just 'cause they 

2148
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,080
never struck blows that would 
have allowed the poison to work,

2149
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:19,040
but you think you would have 
mentioned it if they attacked 

2150
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:22,080
with poison blades? 
And that just makes them sound 

2151
01:42:22,440 --> 01:42:23,880
like they avoided greater 
danger. 

2152
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:25,520
That just makes them sound 
tougher. 

2153
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:27,000
Maybe. 
I mean, maybe they. 

2154
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:31,200
Whether true or not, the Dornish
were party to the idea that 

2155
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:36,240
Valyrians, Valyre or Targaryens 
were immune to more poisons and 

2156
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:38,160
they're like not worth, not 
worth our effort. 

2157
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:40,480
What? 
Again, it doesn't have to be 

2158
01:42:40,480 --> 01:42:41,840
accurate. 
Right. 

2159
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:44,000
Yeah, we know that's not true, 
but they may have believed it 

2160
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:45,680
true. 
Yeah, if they thought, if they, 

2161
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,400
if they felt. 
That's interesting propaganda. 

2162
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:49,440
Definitely hadn't thought of 
that. 

2163
01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:52,680
That's a very interesting point.
Either way though, the birth of 

2164
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:55,000
Megor in this year, it's a it's 
another twist because we don't 

2165
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:55,880
know when in the year it 
happened. 

2166
01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:59,960
And that would affect things 
like another child born would 

2167
01:42:59,960 --> 01:43:02,360
show that Vicena's even more 
concerned with security. 

2168
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:05,240
She would be concerned anyway. 
And again she would have been 

2169
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:07,720
pregnant during some of these 
attacks and before them, so they

2170
01:43:07,960 --> 01:43:10,520
she'd be that would be on her 
mind like OK, my child is in 

2171
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:12,960
danger Now. 
I'm not saying she didn't care 

2172
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:15,920
about 3 year old Amy's, I'm I'm 
pretty sure she did, regardless 

2173
01:43:15,920 --> 01:43:18,960
of what happens later. 
I think she wasn't murderous 

2174
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:22,200
towards her own family, I think 
that's pretty safe to say. 

2175
01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:25,880
Still, she's going to care about
her own child more than her 

2176
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:30,680
sister's child, even if she's 
extremely fond of and loves baby

2177
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:32,160
annies. 
This is the child of her body, 

2178
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:33,680
and she's probably going to care
about him more. 

2179
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:37,920
She might even care more about 
her sister's child more now that

2180
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:39,680
she has her own. 
Maybe she yeah. 

2181
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,160
And the bond and importance even
more so I. 

2182
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,080
Tell you that was one of the 
times where you saying a nice 

2183
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:47,280
how you say it was very 
important. 

2184
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:49,600
In that sentence, she loves baby
Amy. 

2185
01:43:50,560 --> 01:43:52,800
Gosh, sorry. 
It's just OK. 

2186
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:55,680
I had last night. 
I was trying to come up with a 

2187
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:59,880
title for the Reign when we get 
to Amy's reign and I'm like, Amy

2188
01:43:59,880 --> 01:44:02,040
says Mess or something like the 
Mess. 

2189
01:44:02,200 --> 01:44:03,400
Left by. 
No. 

2190
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:05,840
You won't let me name it. 
That will. 

2191
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:07,360
You I get. 
Yeah, sometimes I get. 

2192
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:09,840
We get people in our comments, 
like, why don't you say it like 

2193
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:14,240
Eris instead of Aries? 
And it's because of Amy, because

2194
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:16,440
we don't want to say anus 
constantly. 

2195
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:17,560
Yes, that's. 
Why? 

2196
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:19,720
That's why. 
Other targary names are 

2197
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,240
pronounced a certain way to 
avoid saying anus. 

2198
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:24,520
Yeah, OK. 
Anyways, it all. 

2199
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:32,120
Comes back to anus everything, 
all of it is built around that, 

2200
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:33,800
so she'd be even more concerned 
with security. 

2201
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:35,320
Could easily see why that would 
matter to her more. 

2202
01:44:35,320 --> 01:44:36,360
It would already have been 
important. 

2203
01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:37,840
But how this escalates it, she's
like, OK now. 

2204
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:41,800
I'm also concerned with my 
child's life and it may have 

2205
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:45,120
Also, Nina points out, may have 
also maybe made her feel more a 

2206
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:47,640
part of the dynasty, like she 
was already maybe like the third

2207
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:52,080
wheel in some ways by being the 
one that Aegon Aegon favored. 

2208
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:55,280
Her sister. 
Her sister, on the other hand, 

2209
01:44:55,280 --> 01:45:00,840
Rainey's past. 
So is Aegon now spending all 

2210
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:02,600
those nights he spent with 
Rainey's with Fessenia? 

2211
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:04,760
Is it like, are they together 
every night now? 

2212
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:06,600
Just about since she's gone, or 
is it? 

2213
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:08,360
He's still kind of like I would.
Guess no. 

2214
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:10,840
I would guess no. 
He didn't like her as much, but 

2215
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:13,000
he still. 
And now there's a second baby. 

2216
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:16,120
There's less need to father 
other children. 

2217
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:20,840
There's an error and a spare. 
That's my other question. 

2218
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:23,880
I mean, he was with Rainey's 
like more than Fessenia, right? 

2219
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:27,600
But like, how many nights did 
they just spend alone? 

2220
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:31,280
The. 
Other question like maybe he 

2221
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:34,400
still spends those nights alone 
that he would have, but there is

2222
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:37,240
more time with Vicenia because 
he still wants to, you know? 

2223
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:41,160
Yeah, another topic that is like
the Kingsguard is one that we 

2224
01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:42,520
will fully flesh out another 
time. 

2225
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:47,000
Not just is Vicenia herself, not
just her, but her rumors of her 

2226
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:49,320
use of magic. 
Now this is one of those things 

2227
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:56,680
where she would not tamp down 
any rumors that result in her 

2228
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:59,200
seeming more scary, more 
intimidating because she liked 

2229
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:01,280
to rule by fear. 
Fear like it's it's clear by how

2230
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:07,040
she advises Megor later that 
she's very pro fear as a means 

2231
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:10,920
of control, whereas maybe her 
brother and sister were less 

2232
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:13,520
about that. 
They used it, but not to the 

2233
01:46:13,680 --> 01:46:16,880
extent that Vicenia seemed to 
rely on. 

2234
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:22,160
And yeah, so they might have 
felt the duty to have more 

2235
01:46:22,160 --> 01:46:25,040
children with Rainey's out of 
Rainey's dead and and they got 

2236
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:25,880
one, certainly. 
Who? 

2237
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:29,120
Boy, did they get one Meg or Woo
they might have. 

2238
01:46:29,240 --> 01:46:33,040
Yeah, that's not exactly what 
they aimed for, I suppose. 

2239
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:36,560
But they're also still in 
between just burning all the 

2240
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:38,600
castles and Dorne. 
Like taking turns flying down 

2241
01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:40,720
there, burning a bunch of 
castles while maybe one of them 

2242
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:43,600
is ruling while the other flies 
down there to torch some castles

2243
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:46,440
and they take places or switch 
places and go back. 

2244
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:49,640
So what is this like? 
Burn a castle, check for 

2245
01:46:49,640 --> 01:46:52,240
surrender, burn a castle, check 
for surrender. 

2246
01:46:52,240 --> 01:46:55,520
And their plan is to repeat 
until it just ends. 

2247
01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:57,800
Well, it it didn't. 
At least not because of that. 

2248
01:46:57,800 --> 01:46:59,200
That's not what caused it to 
end. 

2249
01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:04,280
The the go until it's sort of 
ends planned did not pan out. 

2250
01:47:04,480 --> 01:47:06,080
And meanwhile the murders are 
still playing out. 

2251
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:07,480
We got another year, the year 11
AC. 

2252
01:47:07,480 --> 01:47:10,640
Just more people getting 
murdered, more people living in 

2253
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:13,360
fear. 
The anxiety of that building, it

2254
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:18,720
it it's snowballs or sandballs, 
to use a Dornish term, I don't 

2255
01:47:18,720 --> 01:47:21,440
know. 
They're living in fear. 

2256
01:47:21,440 --> 01:47:23,600
And these Lords can't govern 
their people properly. 

2257
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:26,520
And what are they governing? 
Their lands are devastated. 

2258
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:28,240
Their people are in hiding. 
You're dead again. 

2259
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:29,960
Like, how do you govern from a 
cave? 

2260
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:30,760
What? 
Who are you? 

2261
01:47:31,480 --> 01:47:35,040
What are you administering? 
What orders are you giving to? 

2262
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:37,440
What farms are you telling to 
send? 

2263
01:47:37,440 --> 01:47:39,040
The farms are devastated. 
There's no one. 

2264
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:44,040
There's less governing to do. 
Fear is that he did want to rule

2265
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:46,560
Dorn. 
And if he burns down their prize

2266
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:49,840
city and the rest of the country
is already a blasted landscape, 

2267
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:51,280
like, what's the point of even 
capturing? 

2268
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:52,280
Where are you going to 
surrender? 

2269
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:53,280
Yeah. 
Where are we going to rule from 

2270
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:54,720
afterwards? 
That's a that's a good point. 

2271
01:47:54,720 --> 01:47:55,560
Yeah. 
You can't destroy. 

2272
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:57,480
They just turned the entire 
country into nothing, which is 

2273
01:47:57,480 --> 01:47:58,880
close to what he ended up doing 
anyway. 

2274
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:01,360
But yeah, like he may not have 
expected he he probably thought 

2275
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:04,120
they'd give up sooner than this.
He was wrong, but he was 

2276
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:06,120
certainly yeah. 
And here's another interesting 

2277
01:48:06,120 --> 01:48:07,720
point talking about 
assassinations and poisoning, 

2278
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:09,200
There's. 
No evidence to faceless men were

2279
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:10,720
ever used. 
Which which kind of makes sense 

2280
01:48:10,720 --> 01:48:14,520
given their fees are are are 
scale rather than a flat amount.

2281
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:16,320
Like, yeah, you have to pay 80% 
of your wealth. 

2282
01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:18,880
Well, it's like, I mean they 
would they would ask for a 

2283
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:20,560
dragon, right? 
Yeah, they might. 

2284
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:22,000
Well, the Targaryens. 
I don't think the Faceless Men 

2285
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:22,680
would. 
Probably never. 

2286
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:24,080
They would not even accept it, 
But the Dornish. 

2287
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:26,520
Yeah, I just don't know if I 
feel like they. 

2288
01:48:26,520 --> 01:48:29,480
Would for I feel like. 
The Faceless Men would be likely

2289
01:48:29,480 --> 01:48:32,560
to accept. 
A discount from the Dornish, in 

2290
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:35,280
fact, 'cause they are, they're, 
you know, they were aligned. 

2291
01:48:35,280 --> 01:48:37,240
In some ways they'd be like, 
yeah, but apparently it 

2292
01:48:37,240 --> 01:48:38,400
happened, apparently didn't 
happen. 

2293
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:40,360
They may have threatened to do 
it, though, as something we'll 

2294
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:41,240
talk about next. 
Episode. 

2295
01:48:41,240 --> 01:48:43,280
But as far as we know, they 
didn't actually do it. 

2296
01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:46,680
There's no evidence it is once 
again something that could have 

2297
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:48,800
been done on a more individual 
level. 

2298
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:52,200
Individual Dornish Lords or 
people who weren't necessarily 

2299
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:55,760
even Lords, just a, you know, a 
farmer whose son was killed. 

2300
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:59,040
I'm getting a faceless man and 
he could have given up 80% of 

2301
01:48:59,040 --> 01:49:01,040
his wealth and history would 
never know about it. 

2302
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:02,440
That's true. 
Still could have gotten some, 

2303
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:04,880
some key Lord on the other side 
murdered. 

2304
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:08,880
Yeah, it just wasn't Aegon or or
the same, but it could have been

2305
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:11,160
Lord. 
Maybe Lord Connington, that one 

2306
01:49:11,160 --> 01:49:12,120
who he was killed. 
Maybe. 

2307
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:14,640
Probably not one of those, Lord 
Hellhole like we said, because 

2308
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:17,120
it's probably not the Faceless 
Man probably weren't doing 

2309
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:19,640
murders on behalf of of the 
Targaryens or their allies. 

2310
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:22,360
But it's still a consideration 
and it's interesting to mention 

2311
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:25,160
like there's there's always 
things that a big part of what 

2312
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:27,360
we do on the show is just to 
bring up things that aren't 

2313
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:29,360
mentioned that that maybe should
have been mentioned or at least 

2314
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:32,040
we should wonder about. 
So the year 12 AC, this is 

2315
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:34,040
basically the last year we're 
going to discuss today. 

2316
01:49:34,040 --> 01:49:36,720
We're going to basically barely 
touch on year 13. 

2317
01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:39,280
That's when things end. 
Things couldn't get much worse 

2318
01:49:39,280 --> 01:49:41,200
in Dorne. 
I'm calling this section still 

2319
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:44,440
unbowed, unbent. 
Maybe a little broken though, 

2320
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:46,520
but they still hadn't given up 
quote. 

2321
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:50,360
By then, Dorne was a smoking 
desert beset by. 

2322
01:49:50,360 --> 01:49:55,720
Famine, plague, and blight. 
A blasted land, traders from the

2323
01:49:55,720 --> 01:50:00,120
Free Cities called it. 
Yet House Martel still remained 

2324
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:06,040
unbowed, unbent, unbroken as 
their words avowed. 1 Dornish 

2325
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:11,040
knight, brought before Queen 
Vicenia as a captive, insisted 

2326
01:50:11,040 --> 01:50:15,880
that Miriam Martel would sooner 
see her people dead than slaves 

2327
01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:19,720
to House Targaryen. 
Vicenia replied that she and her

2328
01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:23,080
brother would be glad to oblige 
the Princess. 

2329
01:50:23,120 --> 01:50:24,760
The gloves are really off there 
now. 

2330
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:27,240
That's just pretty underrated 
statement there. 

2331
01:50:27,240 --> 01:50:30,120
Huh, Sean, That is just. 
That's just that's pretty evil. 

2332
01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:34,120
And the unfortunate thing is 
that there's the third option. 

2333
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:36,520
Right. 
Why can't you be allies with the

2334
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:38,360
target? 
Now I understand the answer why 

2335
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:41,680
you can't at this point 
especially, but she approached 

2336
01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:45,080
it from the get go that we're 
either free or slaves. 

2337
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:47,760
Well, is there something in the 
middle before you let all your 

2338
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:50,680
people have their lands and 
homes and lives destroyed? 

2339
01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:52,280
It's a big leap from free to 
slave. 

2340
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:54,240
Like, there's definitely some in
between there. 

2341
01:50:55,400 --> 01:50:57,040
The Targaryen, like you said, 
the Targaryen are just so 

2342
01:50:57,040 --> 01:50:58,600
invested now, like they they've 
gone. 

2343
01:50:58,600 --> 01:51:01,680
This far, they can't just. 
Back down based on their views 

2344
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:04,360
of what makes what would allow 
them to hold power. 

2345
01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:07,040
And if they lose here, they lose
in Dorne. 

2346
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,520
And that to them. 
In their minds, that gives 

2347
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:11,840
license to the other kingdoms to
challenge their rule as well. 

2348
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:13,800
Like, well, you weren't strong 
enough to defeat Dorne. 

2349
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:16,600
Even with all of the power of 
all the kingdoms behind you, 

2350
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:19,240
it's a big loss. 
They don't want to take that 

2351
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:20,320
loss. 
They don't want that on their 

2352
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:22,160
rap sheet. 
It already looks bad though, 

2353
01:51:22,160 --> 01:51:23,600
because they haven't been able 
to win. 

2354
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:25,440
Even if they don't lose, they 
haven't won. 

2355
01:51:26,280 --> 01:51:29,280
And what are they going to do? 
What's left for the Dragons to 

2356
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:33,040
destroy? 
What strategy is going to change

2357
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:34,240
things? 
Like what can they? 

2358
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:36,360
Destroying everything didn't 
work. 

2359
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:40,960
They didn't surrender. 
When it says Dorn is a smoking 

2360
01:51:40,960 --> 01:51:43,800
desert beset by famine, plague 
and blight there. 

2361
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:45,680
If that's not going to get them 
to give up, then what? 

2362
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:48,920
What's left to Torch to make 
them go Now we'll give up. 

2363
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:54,280
You destroyed the last tree. 
You know like what the hell? 

2364
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:55,920
It's clearly they're not going 
to give up. 

2365
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:57,600
Given what you're doing isn't 
going to work. 

2366
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:00,520
The Dornish are fighting for 
freedom and homeland and and and

2367
01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:05,880
revenge and all that. 
And despite all this 

2368
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:10,160
devastation, despite how much 
damage been inflicted on Dorne, 

2369
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:14,840
Dorne's still very capable of 
causing great harm outside of 

2370
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:17,760
their own borders. 
Quote The most infamous act of 

2371
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:20,400
that bloody age occurred in 12 
AC When Will. 

2372
01:52:20,400 --> 01:52:24,200
Of Will, the widow lover arrived
uninvited at the wedding of Sir 

2373
01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:27,480
John Catherine, heir to 
Fontaine, to Alice Oakhart, 

2374
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:30,400
daughter to the Lord of Old Oak,
admitted through a posturing 

2375
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:34,240
gate by a treacherous servant. 
The attackers slew Lord Oakhart 

2376
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:37,240
and most of the wedding guests, 
then made the bride look on as 

2377
01:52:37,240 --> 01:52:39,480
they gelded her husband. 
From there it gets worse. 

2378
01:52:39,480 --> 01:52:41,360
I didn't make Sean, read the 
worst part of the quote. 

2379
01:52:41,360 --> 01:52:44,480
They assault the women. 
And sell them all into slavery. 

2380
01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:47,720
And remember, folks, selling 
people into slavery ain't normal

2381
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:49,760
in Westeros. 
So this is another escalation 

2382
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:52,760
here. 
And this is a yet more evidence 

2383
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:56,080
that the Darnish were working 
with certain elements in Essos. 

2384
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:58,920
They sold those people into 
slavery, not for the cruelty, 

2385
01:52:59,280 --> 01:53:03,600
but for more money to fund the 
war effort, most likely, or 

2386
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,320
maybe both. 
They certainly wanted the money,

2387
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:10,000
and this was maybe sold to that 
pirate king, or using him as an 

2388
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:13,400
intermediary or some other 
pirate king, or just they have 

2389
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:18,240
lysine slave buyers there in in 
Sunspear. 

2390
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:19,880
They're just working with these 
folks openly. 

2391
01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:22,800
Who knows? 
But these slavers had to come 

2392
01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:24,640
from somewhere. 
They're not normally there to 

2393
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:29,480
work with, so and that's maybe 
to replace some of the trade 

2394
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:32,520
that they lost 'cause they can't
pretty much trade any other 

2395
01:53:32,520 --> 01:53:34,960
industry, like all the other 
things are shut down by dragon 

2396
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:37,000
fire and the destruction of the 
plancky town. 

2397
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:40,720
So slavery might be one of the 
few things left to for some of 

2398
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:43,920
those merchants coming from 
elsewhere to be like, well, we 

2399
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:46,120
got no goods to buy. 
What about human goods? 

2400
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:50,040
As brutal as it is, it's a very 
human, like, historically 

2401
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:52,640
supported style escalation. 
This is the kind of thing that 

2402
01:53:52,640 --> 01:53:54,840
happens. 
The longer conflict drags on, 

2403
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:58,760
the more hate is sowed. 
The more people are dehumanized,

2404
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:01,480
the more they become willing to 
inflict atrocities on others. 

2405
01:54:01,880 --> 01:54:03,960
You might OK, you might think 
you're probably like me. 

2406
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:08,520
If I did that to somebody else, 
I would have nightmares for the 

2407
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:11,720
rest of my life. 
If I witnessed that, I would 

2408
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:15,800
have nightmares for the rest of 
my life, let alone, you know, 

2409
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:18,320
having it inflicted on you. 
Of course that's the the even 

2410
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:19,880
the third option, which is the 
worst. 

2411
01:54:20,040 --> 01:54:23,280
But what if you've already been 
in a war like this for 8 to 10 

2412
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:25,600
years? 
You're already at the point you 

2413
01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:27,520
you're having nightmares for the
rest of your life. 

2414
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:31,320
This is just changing the the 
variety of those nightmares. 

2415
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:33,080
Well, I'm going to have 
nightmares about torture and 

2416
01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:36,080
about dragon fire and about 
being sleeping in caves. 

2417
01:54:36,080 --> 01:54:41,000
All so to someone that already 
has acquired a lifetime of 

2418
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:45,080
trauma, adding a little more 
doesn't mean anything, or adds 

2419
01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:47,280
very little. 
Like you're already kind of semi

2420
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:50,240
broken, you're already 
accustomed, you've already 

2421
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:53,320
normalized something that no 
human should have to normalize. 

2422
01:54:54,080 --> 01:55:00,480
And consider what the the, the 
mental state of a veteran in 

2423
01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:02,560
this war, especially on the 
Dornish side, someone who's been

2424
01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:05,400
involved in this since the 
beginning, what they've been 

2425
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:08,240
through, what they've lost, 
what, what it must be like 

2426
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:10,440
inside their mind. 
They must be like, if you're 

2427
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:12,160
strong enough to hold on, if 
you're strong enough to keep 

2428
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:15,000
going, well, that's amazing. 
But that doesn't mean you're not

2429
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:18,480
doing a lot internally to, to 
keep yourself going, to struggle

2430
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:21,360
against that trauma, to keep 
moving, to not just give up. 

2431
01:55:21,560 --> 01:55:24,760
So brutal, really nasty, very 
realistic when you think about 

2432
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:26,960
it that way. 
And that's what we try to do. 

2433
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:29,400
We try to make this, we try to 
make this fantasy world as 

2434
01:55:29,400 --> 01:55:31,520
breathable as we can. 
And George, we have such a great

2435
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:34,120
floor for that because George 
does such a good job. 

2436
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:37,120
Fontaine is not on the map. 
We don't actually know where it 

2437
01:55:37,120 --> 01:55:41,120
is except that it's in the Storm
lands likely on the border. 

2438
01:55:41,120 --> 01:55:43,160
It's likely in the in the 
Marches. 

2439
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:45,200
You know, it's likely a long 
time enemy of the Dormers. 

2440
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:47,560
There's probably atrocities on 
both sides, maybe not quite to 

2441
01:55:47,560 --> 01:55:49,240
this level, quite quite this 
brutal. 

2442
01:55:49,240 --> 01:55:51,560
But yeah, they've raided each 
other in the past, but probably 

2443
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:53,240
not. 
Maybe not these individuals, 

2444
01:55:53,240 --> 01:55:55,480
maybe, you know, maybe just 
their ancestors. 

2445
01:55:55,600 --> 01:55:57,840
I can imagine the town not 
existing anymore. 

2446
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:01,600
You know, like imagine a. 
Large percent of the population 

2447
01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:03,960
of the bloodline, that the 
resources and everything in that

2448
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:06,360
town were at that wedding were 
stolen away. 

2449
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:08,320
Well, House Catherine still 
exists, so there is that. 

2450
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:10,400
But yeah, maybe their power was 
permanently reduced. 

2451
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:12,560
Because of that, we don't know 
how many men it was like. 

2452
01:56:12,560 --> 01:56:16,640
On one hand, a small group would
be more efficient and subtle and

2453
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:20,120
and easier to to sneak in. 
But you need enough men to like 

2454
01:56:20,120 --> 01:56:22,880
be able to overpower. 
Like the the fighters that are 

2455
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:24,840
at the wedding, which would be 
several people like most of the 

2456
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:26,480
men there would be trained at 
arms. 

2457
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:30,960
They might have been ready for 
it, but they you know, they'd 

2458
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:33,320
leap to action as best as they 
could when threatened. 

2459
01:56:34,520 --> 01:56:39,480
So eventually Walter will will 
succeed the widow lover. 

2460
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:42,200
His this is his son. 
I wonder if he was part of this 

2461
01:56:42,200 --> 01:56:45,400
raid, if he was like one of the 
commandos that was at his side. 

2462
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:47,520
The will of Will is still 
remembered in Fontaine and in 

2463
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:50,200
Old Oak to this day. 
Fond Old Oak is way the hell 

2464
01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:53,200
over in the Reach. 
It's not particularly accessible

2465
01:56:53,200 --> 01:56:55,560
to the Dornish. 
It's very much to the northwest,

2466
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:57,760
within the Reach. 
But yet they still remember him 

2467
01:56:57,760 --> 01:57:00,920
because of this, because of 
their Their son was gelded in 

2468
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:03,080
front of the wedding guests and 
well, yeah, you don't forget 

2469
01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:04,560
that too easily, I don't 
suppose. 

2470
01:57:04,920 --> 01:57:06,160
So. 
I think that probably there's 

2471
01:57:06,160 --> 01:57:09,400
still prejudice between the oak 
hearts and the wills. 

2472
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:14,360
Obviously when Aries Oak Heart 
was in Dorne, he was constantly 

2473
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:17,680
like an oak heart in Dorne. 
I need to be looking over my 

2474
01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:22,640
shoulder at all times, you know?
And he wasn't wrong, but he of 

2475
01:57:22,640 --> 01:57:24,560
course missed where the real 
danger was coming from. 

2476
01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:27,080
It's coming from inside your own
bed. 

2477
01:57:27,080 --> 01:57:29,920
Aries Okhart. 
Yes, indeed. 

2478
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:34,640
So quite an episode here with 
this, this many, this invasion 

2479
01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:38,040
of of Fontan and this move by 
the will of will. 

2480
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:43,920
Like this is the kind of man 
that excels when you have a war 

2481
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:46,480
like this. 
The the guy who is the best at 

2482
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:51,160
escalating, the guy who's the 
cruellest is the the the one who

2483
01:57:51,160 --> 01:57:54,720
comes out on top. 
Like the widow lover would never

2484
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:57,600
suffer any direct consequences 
for this now or later. 

2485
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:01,280
His family would. 
They would reap the consequences

2486
01:58:01,280 --> 01:58:03,160
of his actions. 
But that's a tale for later, 

2487
01:58:03,160 --> 01:58:06,720
'cause it's not soon, it's more 
than 15 years later. 

2488
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:10,080
That's when he's going to die of
old age, never going to be 

2489
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:14,240
brought to justice. 
But man, that's that's what 

2490
01:58:14,240 --> 01:58:17,120
happens in real life sometimes. 
Sometimes the worst people get 

2491
01:58:17,120 --> 01:58:20,560
away with things and not. 
And of course in Dorne he 

2492
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:22,800
wouldn't be viewed as a bad guy.
He'd be viewed as a freedom 

2493
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:27,160
fighter to most as a hero. 
And in some ways he was. 

2494
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:29,920
Not for this, though not for 
this. 

2495
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:31,400
This. 
I don't think this helped move 

2496
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:33,800
the war, the needle on the war 
at all. 

2497
01:58:33,800 --> 01:58:35,400
I I don't. 
I don't think so. 

2498
01:58:35,760 --> 01:58:39,840
But one person who did die very 
shortly after this, that did 

2499
01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:42,960
change the war. 
And by change it I mean end it. 

2500
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:48,680
The death of Miriam Martel, 
after all this of all things, it

2501
01:58:48,680 --> 01:58:51,080
was just simply old age. 
So somewhat anti climactic but 

2502
01:58:51,080 --> 01:58:55,840
very realistic. 
She just died of old age and her

2503
01:58:56,920 --> 01:59:00,080
family was like, we would like 
to do things differently. 

2504
01:59:01,600 --> 01:59:07,680
Her heirs had a different plan, 
not quite the same as stubborn, 

2505
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:13,400
tough, myriad. 
And by the way the Nina writes, 

2506
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,160
the deathbed slander against 
Miria's supposed sexual 

2507
01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:18,640
activities is an obvious 
reference to the same equally 

2508
01:59:18,640 --> 01:59:22,400
untrue story about Catherine the
Great, Empress of Russia. 

2509
01:59:22,400 --> 01:59:25,160
Similar tales about her told 
about, you know, horses and 

2510
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:29,320
crazy stuff like that. 
Yes, bestiality. 

2511
01:59:29,320 --> 01:59:32,560
That is almost certainly not 
true, but does make for 

2512
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:36,080
scandalous rumors and the kind 
of stories that people still 

2513
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:41,080
talk about 500 years later. 
Also true in Westeros, although 

2514
01:59:41,080 --> 01:59:44,720
more like 300 years later. 
Still quite a long time. 

2515
01:59:45,160 --> 01:59:46,840
And yeah, so that's all that was
needed. 

2516
01:59:46,840 --> 01:59:49,440
Wild, right? 
Like, it wasn't Aegon doing 

2517
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:52,320
succeeding. 
It wasn't some great strategy. 

2518
01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:55,640
It wasn't some new plan. 
It wasn't some opportunity that 

2519
01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:59,080
they seized upon. 
It was just the leader dying of 

2520
01:59:59,120 --> 02:00:01,240
old age. 
That's what changed it all. 

2521
02:00:01,640 --> 02:00:04,040
And if you're a Targaryen, 
you're like, well, if that's 

2522
02:00:04,040 --> 02:00:05,040
what it takes, that's what it 
takes. 

2523
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:07,560
If you're a Darnish person, it 
depends on where you're at. 

2524
02:00:07,560 --> 02:00:10,480
If like if you wanted peace. 
You might be like, well I'm not 

2525
02:00:10,480 --> 02:00:12,760
going to say this out loud, but 
I'm kind of glad she tied. 

2526
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:16,400
But if you wanted to keep going,
well then you didn't want this 

2527
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:17,920
at all. 
You did not want her passing, 

2528
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:21,400
but you couldn't have been 
surprised for a 90 plus year old

2529
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:23,640
person to die. 
And you know this was a a win, 

2530
02:00:23,640 --> 02:00:26,080
if you will, for the people, 
because it at least paused the 

2531
02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:28,840
war. 
The Targaryen still didn't get 

2532
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:32,280
dorned. 
It still wasn't really the goal,

2533
02:00:32,600 --> 02:00:34,160
right? 
It's just the pause and 

2534
02:00:34,160 --> 02:00:36,600
hostilities, so and and and you 
know, maybe. 

2535
02:00:36,600 --> 02:00:39,680
A little lucky on the. 
Part of everyone involved, 

2536
02:00:39,680 --> 02:00:42,520
really. 
The the the heir to Maria didn't

2537
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:45,320
want to keep going, wasn't also 
personally motivated to get 

2538
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:47,360
revenge. 
You know, this could have 

2539
02:00:47,360 --> 02:00:50,440
continued to drag on easily. 
Yeah, yeah, I agree. 

2540
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:53,200
I absolutely agree. 
Several questions. 

2541
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:56,000
Here from y'all today. 
I'm glad to see that and we 

2542
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:58,760
inspired some just extra 
discussion in the comments 

2543
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:02,800
Dornishtame says do I do find it
interesting with the cycle of 

2544
02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:04,760
vengeance that the member of 
House all that we know best in 

2545
02:01:04,760 --> 02:01:06,200
the main series wants to end 
that cycle. 

2546
02:01:06,200 --> 02:01:08,040
Elari yes. 
And we did an episode on Elari 

2547
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:09,440
and we made we did make that 
point. 

2548
02:01:09,440 --> 02:01:11,920
I also thought that was 
interesting she and and of 

2549
02:01:11,920 --> 02:01:15,760
course we we theorized that was 
part of why that being so close 

2550
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:20,760
to that being at the epicenter 
of cycles of vengeance is where 

2551
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:26,800
you might find someone that has 
the wisdom to see the better way

2552
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:30,440
to see why it should stop to to 
to look at it from a a higher 

2553
02:01:30,440 --> 02:01:33,040
point of view and say when is 
this going to stop. 

2554
02:01:33,040 --> 02:01:38,120
Like you are out here like Tywin
died by his own son, painfully 

2555
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:43,000
and you want more like damn, 
like it's really never going to 

2556
02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:44,240
end. 
If that's not enough for you, 

2557
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:47,800
sometimes you need that person 
who themselves has motivation 

2558
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:50,200
for revenge. 
To be the one to not seek it. 

2559
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:52,120
To get other people to fall 
online. 

2560
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:54,120
Very good point. 
Yeah, like if I don't want 

2561
02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:57,480
revenge, then what do you what? 
Do you all on about. 

2562
02:01:57,480 --> 02:01:59,480
You know, I'm the one who truly 
suffered here. 

2563
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:02,160
You know me, me, me. 
Meaning Hilario in this case was

2564
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:04,200
my husband that died. 
My lover died. 

2565
02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:07,200
Yes, to you, he's the Red Viper.
To you he's this and that. 

2566
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:10,160
But he was my lover and the only
person, the person who knew me 

2567
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:11,320
best. 
And I was the person who knew 

2568
02:02:11,320 --> 02:02:12,960
him best. 
So I know better than you what 

2569
02:02:12,960 --> 02:02:14,400
he wanted and what he didn't 
want. 

2570
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:17,280
Yeah, Amy Collins, Russell says.
Look up the board game. 

2571
02:02:17,280 --> 02:02:19,480
Flame Craft. 
Is that in reference to Dragons?

2572
02:02:19,480 --> 02:02:21,200
Like making things and building 
stuff? 

2573
02:02:21,720 --> 02:02:24,440
Oh yeah, yeah, there's all. 
All the next ones are about 

2574
02:02:24,440 --> 02:02:25,320
that. 
Oh cool. 

2575
02:02:25,400 --> 02:02:26,640
We really. 
Inspired some? 

2576
02:02:26,640 --> 02:02:29,080
Things with that one Wheezy 
Squeeze boxes the team of. 

2577
02:02:29,080 --> 02:02:32,920
Dragons pulls the Devil God's 
sleigh across the sky and till 

2578
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:35,320
the end of the moon. 
Is that a game or a story? 

2579
02:02:35,320 --> 02:02:38,080
No, it's a Chinese. 
I believe Chinese, but it's a 

2580
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:41,960
fantasy. 
TV show that wheezy Squeezebox 

2581
02:02:41,960 --> 02:02:45,840
has been promoting in our chat 
for quite a while now. 

2582
02:02:46,040 --> 02:02:49,240
So anyone who is in our chat has
seen those words before. 

2583
02:02:49,240 --> 02:02:53,840
But yeah, an example in there. 
Very good ad Z says hi all. 

2584
02:02:53,840 --> 02:02:55,440
Great discussion as always on 
the subject of. 

2585
02:02:55,440 --> 02:02:56,600
Dragons being used in other 
ways. 

2586
02:02:56,600 --> 02:02:58,440
Take giants that help the 
children of the forest build the

2587
02:02:58,440 --> 02:02:59,240
wall. 
Yeah very good point. 

2588
02:02:59,240 --> 02:03:01,480
That is a very good point that 
they were used for That or the 

2589
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:03,240
rumor is very strong there. 
I believe it. 

2590
02:03:03,560 --> 02:03:06,640
And and we certainly wondered 
about like did the Dragons help 

2591
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:09,480
build the Valyrian dragon roads 
like they're so long and big. 

2592
02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:11,320
Yeah, we've talked about things 
like that before. 

2593
02:03:11,320 --> 02:03:14,000
Maybe the fused walls. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

2594
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:16,400
Very possible and a good 
parallel. 

2595
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:20,400
Phil H says When DHL started it 
said for dragon hauling 

2596
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:23,440
logistics, but since Dragons 
went extinct, they had to change

2597
02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:26,280
that. 
Nice one, Phil. 

2598
02:03:26,280 --> 02:03:27,960
Like that. 
Very good. 

2599
02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:33,400
Sean, you pulled out a few names
for us here to thank some 

2600
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:37,520
patrons for their support. 
A few somewhat at random here. 

2601
02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:40,120
Who do you got today? 
Yeah, one of my favorite 

2602
02:03:40,120 --> 02:03:43,240
favorite parts of this community
is these names that. 

2603
02:03:43,240 --> 02:03:47,240
We get these mashes of people's 
interests into the world of 

2604
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:51,160
Westeros, and somewhat at 
random, but I've been making an 

2605
02:03:51,160 --> 02:03:55,800
effort to get some new and some 
old Got Black Matos Storm Rider,

2606
02:03:55,840 --> 02:04:00,040
captain of the rusted hinge. 
By the way, I ran into Black 

2607
02:04:00,040 --> 02:04:03,480
Matos Storm Rider at Magfest. 
Last week, it's our nice friend 

2608
02:04:03,480 --> 02:04:04,800
Matt. 
Yeah, his name really is Matt. 

2609
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:07,360
Matt Mcsorley, Yeah. 
Another one of my favorite parts

2610
02:04:07,360 --> 02:04:09,320
of this community is running 
into the people in real life. 

2611
02:04:10,080 --> 02:04:13,800
Recorded Cons. 
Jeremy Flowers, Proprietor of 

2612
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:17,520
the Mummer Troop, Old Town Funk.
That would be my favorite mum or

2613
02:04:17,520 --> 02:04:20,960
troop for sure. 
Aileen Archer, Queen captain of 

2614
02:04:20,960 --> 02:04:23,000
the Border Collie. 
You said it, right? 

2615
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:26,120
That is how you say her name. 
I said Eileen for many. 

2616
02:04:26,240 --> 02:04:29,000
Weeks, months, years. 
And she corrected me one day. 

2617
02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:30,320
You got it right on the first 
try. 

2618
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:32,960
Good job. 
I think it was at least probably

2619
02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:37,440
like so, Grant. 
Of Hawksite watcher of the God's

2620
02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:41,040
Eye Hawks site. 
That's cool Alder Snow Bastard 

2621
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:43,880
of Bear Island, known as. 
The Northern Fury. 

2622
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:48,360
As fierce as she is loyal. 
And finally this week we've got 

2623
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:51,520
Wisdom Index Bastard of 
Starfall. 

2624
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:54,400
You can find all these Patreon 
names, whether interpreted 

2625
02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:57,720
correctly by me or not, at. 
History of westeros.com along 

2626
02:04:57,720 --> 02:04:59,000
with everything else we 
mentioned throughout this 

2627
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:00,640
episode. 
If you want to find a link, if 

2628
02:05:00,680 --> 02:05:03,120
you want to find past episodes, 
if you want to sign up for 

2629
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:05,480
something, if you want to use 
our affiliate links, if you want

2630
02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:08,960
to, you know Peru's one of our 
sponsors, Her history of 

2631
02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:11,680
westeros.com. 
It's not fancy, but it's got 

2632
02:05:11,680 --> 02:05:14,760
everything that you need to link
to all the places that we may 

2633
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:17,160
have referred to. 
People who listen on podcasts 

2634
02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:19,040
are going to be like, what do 
they mean by Aziz? 

2635
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:21,120
Interpreting names. 
Correctly, because I'm going to 

2636
02:05:21,120 --> 02:05:24,200
cut that and now you have a 
reference to a thing I'm going 

2637
02:05:24,200 --> 02:05:28,800
to cut. 
Aziz interpreted all the patron 

2638
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:31,000
names. 
To mean jerk. 

2639
02:05:31,240 --> 02:05:33,800
Yeah, everybody means jerk 
wisdom. 

2640
02:05:33,800 --> 02:05:37,760
That means jerk hawksite. 
Jerk, Bear, Island Jerk. 

2641
02:05:38,560 --> 02:05:39,440
Archer. 
Queen. 

2642
02:05:39,440 --> 02:05:40,320
Cap. 
Jerk. 

2643
02:05:41,160 --> 02:05:42,880
Border collies. 
Those are all jerks. 

2644
02:05:42,880 --> 02:05:44,480
That's the jerkiest dog. 
That's what happened. 

2645
02:05:44,480 --> 02:05:47,640
I cut it, but now he's back 
doing it again, up to his old 

2646
02:05:47,640 --> 02:05:48,440
tricks. 
He's. 

2647
02:05:48,520 --> 02:05:51,040
I'm making it hard, yeah. 
Making Eshaya's job. 

2648
02:05:51,200 --> 02:05:55,640
The Jerk of House Jerk. 
To be found at the Jerk store. 

2649
02:05:56,440 --> 02:05:59,120
That's right. 
The trivia answer the question 

2650
02:05:59,120 --> 02:06:01,800
was what title created. 
By Aegon was held by only one. 

2651
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:04,360
Person ever. 
That is the Warden of the Sands 

2652
02:06:04,360 --> 02:06:10,880
held by John Rosby. 
Yes, he did plummet to his death

2653
02:06:11,080 --> 02:06:15,280
thanks to Miria and her Knights.
Next time next week we'll be 

2654
02:06:15,280 --> 02:06:19,160
discussing the the peace deal, 
the mystery of the letter of 

2655
02:06:19,160 --> 02:06:23,520
Rainey's, whether Rainey's lived
and all the associated stuff the

2656
02:06:23,640 --> 02:06:25,720
the Aegon. 
The letter from Dorne is one of 

2657
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:31,280
the most interesting and popular
mysteries from this era, and I 

2658
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:33,880
want to devote a little extra 
time to it, But also setting up 

2659
02:06:33,880 --> 02:06:35,920
some of the other things that 
happened around it, discussing 

2660
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:37,640
some of the other things that 
happened around that same time 

2661
02:06:37,640 --> 02:06:40,320
in the era. 
And then we'll move on to the 

2662
02:06:40,320 --> 02:06:43,520
rest of Aegon's reign and we'll 
go from there. 

2663
02:06:43,760 --> 02:06:46,720
We also have some episodes that 
relate to ones we talked about 

2664
02:06:46,720 --> 02:06:48,840
today. 
We mentioned Hilarious, and just

2665
02:06:48,840 --> 02:06:51,880
now we mentioned Nymeria parts 
one and two. 

2666
02:06:51,880 --> 02:06:54,800
Eventually, we'll do the Part 3.
That's one of the things that 

2667
02:06:54,800 --> 02:06:57,320
might happen during the topics 
moot. 

2668
02:06:57,320 --> 02:07:00,320
Nymeria 3 might get some extra 
steam behind it. 

2669
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:02,920
As a project for us to finish, 
we've also mentioned Dare on the

2670
02:07:02,920 --> 02:07:06,120
first episode. 
We mentioned the Doom episode, 

2671
02:07:06,120 --> 02:07:09,920
The Century of Blood episode. 
We mentioned under the Dragon's 

2672
02:07:09,920 --> 02:07:12,920
Hightower, which is where you 
can find more information. 

2673
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:18,440
A much more detailed take on the
invasion in eight AC of or 9 AC 

2674
02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:21,520
of Night song and the Invasion 
of Joffrey Dane around Old Town.

2675
02:07:21,520 --> 02:07:24,440
We go into a lot more detail 
about those incidents in Under 

2676
02:07:24,440 --> 02:07:27,520
the Dragon's Hightower. 
Also, hardcore houses came up, 

2677
02:07:28,200 --> 02:07:30,880
Highgarden came up. 
Really just a lot of stuff. 

2678
02:07:31,560 --> 02:07:35,120
Don't forget the last Storm 
episode is available to patrons 

2679
02:07:35,120 --> 02:07:37,720
and members only. 
There's lots of other episodes 

2680
02:07:37,720 --> 02:07:40,720
you get by joining our Patreon 
our I've Lost Count. 

2681
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:43,120
There's so many bonus episodes 
you get by signing up for 

2682
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:46,520
Patreon, and it's such a small 
amount relative to how many 

2683
02:07:46,520 --> 02:07:48,280
episodes you get. 
I hope you think it's a good 

2684
02:07:48,280 --> 02:07:51,640
deal, and if so, join us on 
Patreon today 

2685
02:07:51,760 --> 02:07:55,120
patreon.com/history Westeros. 
Another episode you can get is 

2686
02:07:55,120 --> 02:07:57,560
the Red Kraken. 
Another one you can get is the 

2687
02:07:57,600 --> 02:08:00,000
buildings of Brandon, meaning 
the buildings of Brandon the 

2688
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:03,480
Builder. 
That relates to our discussion 

2689
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:06,120
of Giants helping build the 
wall. 

2690
02:08:06,120 --> 02:08:08,880
We have a whole episode on that,
one that's available for patrons

2691
02:08:08,880 --> 02:08:12,000
and one that's just out there 
when Giants roamed with our good

2692
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:13,960
friend Amanda, AKA Crow Food's 
daughter. 

2693
02:08:14,760 --> 02:08:19,120
Thank you for those of you who 
attended live and made the chat 

2694
02:08:19,120 --> 02:08:21,880
bumping. 
We always appreciate that. 

2695
02:08:22,520 --> 02:08:24,840
Thanks as well to those of you 
who have signed up to support 

2696
02:08:24,840 --> 02:08:26,680
us, not just on Patreon, but on 
Spotify. 

2697
02:08:26,680 --> 02:08:29,040
We do have Spotify subscriptions
available as well. 

2698
02:08:29,200 --> 02:08:31,760
It doesn't quite have the 
functionality of Patreon. 

2699
02:08:31,760 --> 02:08:34,640
We can't quite offer all the 
same things, but you get the 

2700
02:08:34,640 --> 02:08:37,440
bonus episodes and it's a little
easier. 

2701
02:08:37,440 --> 02:08:40,280
If you're already subscribed to 
Spotify, you can just add that 

2702
02:08:40,280 --> 02:08:42,520
on to your monthly fee and then 
forget about it. 

2703
02:08:42,520 --> 02:08:46,120
So in some ways it's a little 
simpler than Patreon, even if it

2704
02:08:46,120 --> 02:08:47,400
doesn't quite have the same 
benefits. 

2705
02:08:47,720 --> 02:08:49,880
But we're not in charge of how 
that stuff works. 

2706
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:54,320
We just do what we can to 
provide you all as many options 

2707
02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:57,760
as possible to support the show.
For other options, check out our

2708
02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:00,000
website. 
Thanks very much to Nina. 

2709
02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:03,680
Go check out Good Queen Allie 
with 1l.tumblr.com. 

2710
02:09:04,080 --> 02:09:08,160
Thanks as well to Joey and Jesse
and Bran and Michael Klorfeld 

2711
02:09:08,160 --> 02:09:11,720
for our music and for our video 
intro and our maps. 

2712
02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:14,840
So good, so helpful. 
Makes our show look so 

2713
02:09:14,840 --> 02:09:17,800
professional. 
Yes, we what? 

2714
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:20,520
We can't pull off. 
We fake it with the help of 

2715
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:23,680
friends. 
Yeah, until next time, my 

2716
02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:27,720
friends, you know what to do. 
We'll be back with more Valar 

2717
02:09:27,800 --> 02:09:28,840
Reridis.