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House Stark has ruled the North 
for countless years, and for 

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most of that time their rule has
been unquestioned. 

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00:00:55,850 --> 00:00:59,210
Their dominance has been such 
that it would be difficult for 

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00:00:59,210 --> 00:01:03,850
any other House to have issued a
real challenge, no matter which 

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00:01:03,850 --> 00:01:07,690
of these countless years or 
centuries we're even referring 

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00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:11,450
to. 
Because it's been so long and so

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00:01:11,650 --> 00:01:15,240
well kept, it's difficult to 
imagine a circumstance where 

8
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,640
another Northern house could 
have enough support to overcome 

9
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,440
Winterfell and its allies. 
Even now, in A Song of Ice and 

10
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,200
Fire, with the Bolton's holding 
the castle, there's a sense that

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00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,200
this is temporary. 
I don't know many people who 

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00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,840
think that the Starks aren't 
going to get Winterfell back. 

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00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,200
The question is how. 
The how is what makes it 

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00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,400
interesting. 
But the end result, as far as 

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that goes, is very few people 
seem to question that the time 

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for wolves is coming again at 
some point. 

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The conditions that allowed 
Roose Bolton to make his move 

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were highly unusual. 
Though. 

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Roose himself began as an ally, 
he didn't start off plotting 

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00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,960
against Robb Stark, or if he 
did, he knew it would require a 

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00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,120
lot of things going his way 
before the opportunity would 

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00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,200
present itself. 
The opportunity did present 

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itself, and he was part of 
creating the opportunity, but it

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was a lot of a lot of it was 
outside of him, right? 

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00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,120
It took things like Lysa's lie 
through Littlefinger about John 

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00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,400
Aaron, the near death of Bran, 
and then the follow up 

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00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,960
assassination attempt with the 
cat's paw dagger. 

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00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,520
So new, 2 near deaths for Bran 
there, the news of Daenerys's 

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00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,200
marriage to Khal Drogo and 
ensuing pregnancy. 

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00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,160
And there's just so many things,
right? 

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00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,280
Like I don't have to list them 
all. 

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00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,520
You guys know I just threw a few
of them out there. 

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Just so many factors lined up to
make Winterfell fall. 

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And even then it took an expert 
plotter with extreme ambitions 

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and he didn't like face them in 
open battle. 

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00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,800
It was still subterfuge and 
intrigue and backstabbing. 

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00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,240
It wasn't like my army faces 
yours now and I'm going to beat 

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00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,160
you now. 
They, they, the Bolton's never 

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00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,880
had that. 
It was, you know, the Red 

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00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,240
Wedding and and such like that. 
So somewhere in the realm of a 

41
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,880
century ago. 
However, Winterfell was in 

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00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,280
another period of relative 
weakness. 

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00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,680
And while many northern houses 
remained loyal, as they do now, 

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00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,160
others saw an opportunity. 
Dark clouds formed on the 

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00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,160
horizon after the death of 
Kriegan Stark, the Old Man of 

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00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,720
the North and his descendants 
faced a host of challenges and a

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host of Stonebourne. 
That's right. 

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00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,760
The Skagosi, there was 
uncertainty about the succession

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00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,320
after Kragen multiple times, 
multiple different errors. 

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00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,240
There were issues, there were 
problems, internal problems. 

51
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,800
There were strange marriages 
that reflect these problems, 

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00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,400
like vaguely Targaryen, if not 
more than vaguely Targaryen. 

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00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,640
And you know what I mean when I 
say that, yes, incestuous 

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00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,960
entangling alliances on top of 
that with other northern houses 

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00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,960
and lots of Lords of Winterfell 
who didn't hold the title for 

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00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,080
very long. 
We got like Lord of Winterfell 

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00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,080
for two years, Lord of 
Winterfell for three years, Lord

58
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,640
of, you know, there's really 
short stints after Kragen ruled 

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00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,920
for something like 50 years, 
maybe. 

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00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:02,840
We don't exactly know, but a 
long, long time. 

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00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,720
So for a long for a time then 
Winterfell's lack of reach was 

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00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,200
simply spoken of. 
People said Winterfell's weaker.

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00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,960
It wasn't a Bolton situation 
where they lost it and had to 

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00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,480
get it back, but it was a 
ticking time bomb and eventually

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00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,200
it turned to blood. 
Weak. 

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00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,200
Winterfell's weakness was 
capitalized on, and someone 

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00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,560
tested them to tested the Starks
to see if the direwolf was still

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00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,800
a creature to be feared. 
And it was Kriegan's fourth son,

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00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,640
Barthegan Barth, who held the 
lordship of Winterfell. 

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00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:39,040
When the tide finally turned, 
when Skagos, a place even to 

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00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,520
harden Northerners fear, went 
rebel. 

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00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,160
Lord Barth, Black Sword, he was 
called. 

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00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,520
He had a couple of different 
nicknames I guess, and today we 

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00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,600
will tell his tale as best as we
can. 

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00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:56,000
For example, what's up with that
super badass, maybe villainous 

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00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,840
sounding name? 
The moniker Blacksword by itself

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00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:02,920
is like, what's that now? 
Hmm Blacksword you say? 

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00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,760
Interesting. 
So we've got Unicorn cavalry 

79
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,480
warriors who eat the hearts of 
their defeated foes and hang the

80
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,120
rest of the entrails from heart 
trees. 

81
00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:13,480
Shipwrecks and raids and 
ambushes. 

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00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,800
False lights and foreshadowing 
for Davos and Rickon and others.

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00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,560
We've got Manderlys and Umbers 
and giants blood, and of course 

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00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,960
lots of Starks. 
We might even have the only 

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00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,360
known example of ice being 
wielded in battle, meaning the 

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00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,960
Valyrian steel blade. 
Of course not. 

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00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,280
You know, frozen water being 
wielded in battle. 

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00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,400
All that and more on this 
episode of History of Westeros 

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00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:42,680
Podcast. 
Hello and welcome back everyone.

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00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,960
It's time for another episode, 
another deep dive into the past.

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00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,280
Not too far into the past, 
though, as I said at the 

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beginning, this is an era that's
only about 100 to 150 years 

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00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,760
before. 
Some of the timelines, a little 

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00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,920
bit uncertain, but that's part 
of the fun. 

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We're here every Sunday, just 
about, not quite every Sunday, 

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but almost every Sunday for 
these live streams. 

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But if you can't catch the live 
stream, you can always catch the

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00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,840
edited version a little 
tightened up, a little better 

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sound quality as Shea does all 
that good stuff. 

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00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,760
You can find it the edited video
version up on Spotify or the 

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edited podcast version anywhere 
you find podcasts. 

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00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,240
And if you listen on Patreon, 
it's ad free. 

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00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,880
Shout out to our great friend 
Nina goodqueenalley.tumblr.com 

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that's good Queen AL Y1Y in 
alley and her latest blog post 

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is on the Tyrells and what their
plans were with Sansa. 

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Obviously we know that they 
wanted Sansa to Mary Willis, but

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what was next? 
What was their plan beyond 

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getting Sansa into their family?
What would have been the next 

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steps? 
So that's a good read, a good 

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question from the person that 
asked it. 

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I don't know who they were, but 
Nina gives a good answer. 

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If you have questions for us, 
hit us up at 

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00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,320
westeroshistory@gmail.com or if 
you're watching live, go ahead 

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00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,400
and drop a question in the chat 
or meet us on our Discord. 

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00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,040
Hit us up on Blue Sky Facebook. 
We're on most of the social 

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00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,680
media platforms. 
Shout out to Chatty Lumpkin who 

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sent a very large super chat 
here, 200 Canadian, which, well,

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thank you Chatty, that's very 
appreciated. 

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00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,960
It's very generous. 
And they say thanks for all the 

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hard work. 
Well, we'll keep them coming. 

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We'll keep the episodes running.
And we love doing this. 

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So, yeah, you can count on us to
keep it going. 

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00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,880
We'll start with our trivia 
question, as we so often do. 

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00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,920
Who said this line? 
Only heart trees ever see half 

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00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,160
of what they do on Skagos. 
Who said that line? 

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00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,920
I will mention it during the 
episode, and we'll reveal the 

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00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,200
answer at the end. 
Good luck to you if you're 

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00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,200
guessing. 
So here's what we have in store 

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00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,760
today. 
I'm going to read you the little

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00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,960
section headers, the different 
parts of this episode. 

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00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,880
I love to give them titles. 
Can you believe that? 

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00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,080
I used to always give these 
things titles and not read them.

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00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,880
I gave I, I made-up creative 
titles for each section and like

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00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,280
a good third of the episodes. 
It was like, just for me, I 

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00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,040
guess, and a Shea, like I wasn't
reading them. 

136
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,760
Like, why don't I read these? 
Some of these are kind of fun. 

137
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,840
Anyway, so we've got our intro 
and set up. 

138
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,520
Then we have why Blacksword and 
then why unmarried? 

139
00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,920
Yeah, Bart Blacksword was 
unmarried, which is very odd. 

140
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:16,600
And we'll explain why that's 
odd. 

141
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,640
And, well, it's odder than you 
might think. 

142
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,000
Yes, it's it's already unusual 
that a Lord of Winterfell or any

143
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,400
great house didn't get married, 
but it's even weirder than that.

144
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,440
Then we're going to go through 
some of the timeline around this

145
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:27,960
era. 
It's such an interesting era. 

146
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,120
There's so many interesting 
characters, so much intrigue, so

147
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,200
much mystery. 
But what we do know gives us a 

148
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,520
lot to work with. 
And that'll set a lot of our 

149
00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,200
context and a lot of the the 
setting. 

150
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:39,679
Then we'll talk about the legacy
of Craig and Stark. 

151
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,120
This section's called the old 
Man's legacy, Kragen's 

152
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,200
descendants. 
I'll alternate calling him 

153
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,080
Kragen and Kregan because that's
how I am. 

154
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,640
The wolf must have one head. 
Yes, that is a play on the 

155
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,440
dragon must have 3 heads. 
But as you might guess, that is 

156
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,040
referring to too many Stark 
branches, just like there might 

157
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,120
be too many Targaryen branches. 
Bartheon's inheritance will 

158
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,880
start in the second-half. 
So Black Sword taking over as 

159
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,040
Lord of Winterfell, then the 
Skagosi Rebellion. 

160
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,160
We'll break that down in great 
detail as much as we can. 

161
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,520
The war beginning, the Black 
sword falls and then finishing 

162
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,760
the war and looking forward. 
And then a little outro where we

163
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,120
talk a little bit about Davos 
and Rickon and how this will set

164
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,000
up their storyline a bit, or at 
least could. 

165
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:20,560
Yeah. 
So we're dealing with a thin 

166
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,960
slice here, a thin slice from an
era with a lot of missing 

167
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,600
details. 
And we've covered Kragen before,

168
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,600
and that's a. 
That was a little easier because

169
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,480
while there's a lot we're 
missing on him, there's a lot we

170
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,160
do have. 
Now, it is fair to say that what

171
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,640
we do have is fascinating. 
And it's also fair to say that 

172
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,360
there's vast swaths of northern 
history not given to us. 

173
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,520
I mean, there's thousands of 
years of northern history and, 

174
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,480
and we don't know most of it. 
But of the ones we do know, this

175
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,880
one really stands out. 
And in part it's because it's 

176
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,800
not that long ago from the 
perspective of A Song of Ice and

177
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,960
Fire, right? 
I mean my best guess is Barth 

178
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:05,040
was born around 164 AC, which 
means during the reign of Baylor

179
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,120
the Blessed not long after the 
death of Darren the 1st and his 

180
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,600
conquest failed conquest of dorm
roughly in that era. 

181
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,040
Elio of The Who who held Elio 
Garcia, who helped write the 

182
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,040
world of ice and fire. 
They have their mush, their 

183
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,200
multi user game. 
I think it's on hiatus right 

184
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:24,880
now, but they ran that in the 
same era. 

185
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,120
So they had done some guesswork 
on some of these dates as well. 

186
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,680
So occasionally I'm I'll refer 
to what their guesses were and 

187
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:32,760
occasionally in their case, they
actually know the right dates. 

188
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,480
But so much of the mush is 
predates fire and blood. 

189
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,760
So and as well as world the 
world of ice fire. 

190
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,760
Even so, some of it doesn't 
quite line up. 

191
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,560
Anyway, disclaimer over Barth 
probably died in the early 2 

192
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:49,720
hundreds and that's a near 
certainty because he died during

193
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,880
the reign of King Darren the 
good Darren the second. 

194
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,560
So that's at least somewhat 
refined to a certain region of 

195
00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:57,200
time. 
Now, the prologue of A Game of 

196
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,720
Thrones is early 298 or late 
297. 

197
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,800
So what we'll see is a couple 
examples where something's like 

198
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,480
about a century ago, blah blah 
blah happens. 

199
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,440
You can see it's probably more 
like 90 years, but whatever, 

200
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,200
that's nothing. 10 years is 
nothing when you're throwing 

201
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,800
around centuries. 
And of course, that era, the 

202
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,200
early 2 hundreds, that's when 
Dunk and Egg were coming up. 

203
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,680
Like literally they were boys 
turning into adults around that 

204
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:22,760
time. 
The Hedge and I takes place in 

205
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,840
two O 9 early 2O9 mid two O 9 
maybe. 

206
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,320
And Egg becomes king 24 years 
later and acquires the nickname 

207
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,760
Aegon the unlikely Aegon the 5th
right. 

208
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,920
And that is a good parallel for 
us to start with Barth, because 

209
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,320
Aegon the unlikely was the 4th 
son of a fourth son. 

210
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,560
And there's some Barth black 
sword the unlikely going on here

211
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,960
too. 
He was also a fourth son. 

212
00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:50,360
He wasn't the fourth son of a 
fourth son, but he was the 9th 

213
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,360
child, which is, yeah, you, you 
inherit after being the ninth 

214
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,560
child. 
That is unlikely. 

215
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:01,920
I think it's fair to say. 
Now he wasn't the fourth son of 

216
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,600
a fourth son. 
He was the 4th son of a first 

217
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,760
son, first son. 
But it was from his third wife. 

218
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,040
So you can see that is really 
far down the line. 

219
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:19,440
And yeah, it's unlikely, but 
unlikely is kind of a soft term 

220
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,040
to use here because of the 
unspoken truth that has to be 

221
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,000
present when you inherit over so
many elder siblings. 

222
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,280
And that truth is that they must
have all died. 

223
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,560
That's not good. 
That's not a a thing you want 

224
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,040
hanging over you. 
Yeah, I'm the Lord of 

225
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,600
Winterfell, but I am the Lord of
Winterfell because all my 

226
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,160
brothers and maybe even some of 
my sisters died, you know, ahead

227
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:45,880
of me. 
They didn't. 

228
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,240
That means they didn't get to 
live full lives. 

229
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,520
Barth didn't live a full life, 
so the Starks he inherited from 

230
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:58,440
most likely didn't either, even 
if we have a much shorter range 

231
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,880
for what a full life is in 
Westeros, right? 

232
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,440
So things like tragedy, sadness,
survivor's guilt, like why am I 

233
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,880
the one left? 
Why did I survive and all my 

234
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,560
brothers have died, or all my 
sisters and brothers have died? 

235
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:12,200
It's the sisters. 
It's a little trickier because 

236
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,080
of inheritance and all that, but
still, there might still be some

237
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,240
guilt there and maybe their 
children could have had a shot 

238
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,280
at inheriting and well, why him?
Why Barth Black's Order Why one 

239
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,440
of these other characters? 
And the one of the reasons this 

240
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,160
comes to mind is because it's an
absolutely fundamental, early 

241
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,400
introduced character trait of 
none other than Ned Stark 

242
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,760
himself. 
Quote I. 

243
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,320
Was only 12 when my father 
promised me to your brother, 

244
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,720
Brandon. 
That brought a bitter twist to 

245
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,360
Ned's mouth. 
Brandon. 

246
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:48,480
Yes, Brandon would know what to 
do. 

247
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,240
He always did. 
It was all meant for Brandon. 

248
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:55,880
You Winterfell everything. 
He was born to be a King's Hand 

249
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,440
and a father to Queens. 
I never asked for this cup to 

250
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,040
pass to me. 
Perhaps not, Catlin said. 

251
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,320
But Brandon is dead and the cup 
has passed and you must drink 

252
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,360
from it, like it or not. 
Notice how early this is in 

253
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,080
terms of establishing character.
Like I said, this is very 

254
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,600
fundamental to Ned. 
This is Catlin, 2A Game of 

255
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,240
Thrones, one of the first 
chapters in the entire book, the

256
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,240
entire series. 
But of course, we can't assume 

257
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,640
this is how Barth, Blacksword, 
or any other Stark would be. 

258
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,120
It's just a possibility. 
And that's a thing that you have

259
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,520
to do when you're imagining a 
character who you don't know a 

260
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,960
lot about. 
A lot of you who play 

261
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,320
role-playing games, play DND or 
online games, Baldur'sgate, any 

262
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,600
sort of thing like that. 
If you like to role play your 

263
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,080
character and you want to do it 
in a convincing, authentic way, 

264
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,000
you have to imagine all the 
different stimuli and events and

265
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,000
things that your character or 
other characters would live 

266
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,320
through and then try to honestly
decide how they would react. 

267
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,360
And that's what an author has to
do with a huge cast of 

268
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,520
characters. 
So we have to be open to a lot 

269
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,920
of possibilities here. 
So maybe maybe Barth Blacksword 

270
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,560
just didn't like his siblings. 
Maybe he was one of those types 

271
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,000
of people. 
Even when you have 8 elder 

272
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,480
siblings, you'd think that maybe
one of those would work out, 

273
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,800
like you'd like one of them or 
get along with one or two of 

274
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,240
them, but not necessarily, 
right? 

275
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,400
You can't make that assumption. 
So maybe Barth Blacksword wasn't

276
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,080
a very likable guy. 
Maybe he didn't get along with 

277
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,240
his siblings for maybe maybe 
they didn't like him. 

278
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,200
You know, maybe it was a two way
St. neither of them like the 

279
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,840
other. 
And if we're going a step 

280
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,520
farther, some people are willing
to kill their siblings for 

281
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,040
power, right, or for other 
reasons. 

282
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,320
So you're on, right, That's a 
good example. 

283
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,720
Some people are just born off, 
right? 

284
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,840
A you're on, for example, right?
Some of them are tempted by 

285
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,960
power. 
You're on again, right. 

286
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,880
But if we use non Greyjoy 
examples, I'm sure that even 

287
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,600
amongst the Starks, there had to
be some who weren't just perfect

288
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,640
angels. 
And Ned Stark's not a perfect 

289
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,680
Angel. 
So like even he isn't, but he is

290
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,920
a a good man overall. 
He is he cares, he has sympathy,

291
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,960
he sell, has self reflection and
and things like that that we 

292
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,040
value. 
So these are possibilities for 

293
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,560
Barth Blacksword and we can only
look at the circumstances of his

294
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:16,000
life and, and the details from a
high level to maybe make these 

295
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,120
guesses and theorize. 
And that's fun. 

296
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,680
You know, there's a lot we can 
glean and triangulate and 

297
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,640
extrapolate and infer and lots 
of synonyms are available to us 

298
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,520
for things like this. 
In fact, it is what we've 

299
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,440
learned doing exactly that. 
Which brings us to this episode 

300
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,800
in the 1st place. 
Well, that and patron voting, of

301
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:37,800
course. 
That's one of the reasons we're 

302
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,720
doing this particular episode. 
But even with so much missing, 

303
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,640
even with so much of Barth's 
personality missing and so much 

304
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,080
of this timeline missing, it's 
it really stands out and well, 

305
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,960
keep listening and you'll see 
why. 

306
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,840
So let's start with why he was 
called Black Sword. 

307
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,280
What I'm going to do here is 
we're going to look at the 

308
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,640
character as best as we can, and
then look at the timeline and 

309
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,040
interpret the events that flow 
through here, that the events 

310
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,720
that transpire. 
And given our read on Barth's 

311
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,640
character, we can kind of 
understand or at least make 

312
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,839
reasonable guesses as to how he 
might have reacted to those 

313
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,599
things or how those things might
have affected him and the rest 

314
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:14,920
of the Starks and the rest of 
the North. 

315
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,760
So one of the first guesses we 
have is why he was called Barth 

316
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,200
Blacksword is that he wielded 
ice in battle. 

317
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,160
We know for a certainty that ice
was not a sword wielded in 

318
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,560
battle very often, but it's hard
to believe that it was never 

319
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,960
wielded in battle, right? 
It's not heavy because it's 

320
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,120
Valyrian steel, it's just really
long and that makes it difficult

321
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:42,200
to fight with. 
It's more ceremonial that way. 

322
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,120
Someone like Ned would prefer a 
smaller sword. 

323
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:50,520
It's just more appropriate for 
how tall he is and and just how 

324
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,280
he was trained. 
He probably didn't grow up 

325
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,040
learning how to fight with it 
even because, well, why would 

326
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,760
he? 
He wasn't going to fight with it

327
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,160
later. 
But what if you're born really 

328
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,080
tall? 
What if you're sand or Clegane 

329
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,240
sized, or even Greg or Clegane 
sized? 

330
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,440
Well, maybe not that big. 
That's that's really unusual. 

331
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,360
But we you don't have to be Greg
or Clegane sized to use A2 

332
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,240
handed great sword, although you
do to wield it one handed like 

333
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,200
he does. 
Still, we're not imagining 

334
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,520
something that large, although I
guess we could if we wanted to, 

335
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,600
but we the point is we don't 
need to. 

336
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,240
We don't need that exceptional 
of a person size wise to wield 

337
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,800
ice. 
We just need something very big,

338
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,160
you know, not insanely, 
unrealistically big. 

339
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,800
Let's think about what it looks 
like. 

340
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,240
Valyrian steel is almost black. 
It's dark, smoky Gray, right? 

341
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,240
So from a distance, it would 
probably look black. 

342
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,040
And if you didn't know better, 
which most people in Westeros 

343
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,720
don't, you see the sword from a 
distance. 

344
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,840
You've never seen anything like 
it. 

345
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,160
Probably. 
Maybe you never will again, 

346
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,040
especially if you're a peasant 
or some lesser Lord. 

347
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,120
Maybe. 
Maybe if you're a more prominent

348
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,400
Lord, you might see Valyrian 
steel elsewhere, but a lot of 

349
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,120
these lesser Lords would never 
even leave the North Ice might 

350
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,880
be the only Valyrian steel blade
they ever see, and again, they 

351
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,000
may only see it from a distance.
So it would look black, right? 

352
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,160
It would be unique and dark. 
And yeah, so if and if he did 

353
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,800
wield it in battle, then it 
would be seen a lot more. 

354
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,400
It wouldn't just be seen when 
it's unsheathed to cut someone's

355
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,080
head off because that would be 
the only time you'll pretty much

356
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,360
ever see it outside of the 
sheath. 

357
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,720
Like what point is there to 
having it unsheathed if it's 

358
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,520
just used as a symbol of 
authority for doing justice, 

359
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,720
which is the the business of the
ruler. 

360
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,440
The Lord of Winterfell is the 
one who dispenses justice. 

361
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,280
Ice is the symbol of that 
justice. 

362
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,760
What an interesting thing for 
that symbol of justice to be 

363
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,040
used in battle against a foe 
that has behaved unjustly, that 

364
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,480
has broken the laws or broken 
rules or or is considered 

365
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,200
treasonous, that's kind of 
symbolic in its own fun way, 

366
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,880
Nina adds. 
This would be a rare opportunity

367
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,440
for a Stark Lord to even fight 
in battle. 

368
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000
Yeah, that's a great point. 
Because even if there were prior

369
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,240
Starks who were big enough to 
wield it in battle, they might 

370
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:06,640
not have had a battle to wield 
it in. 

371
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,440
And we just got through saying 
at the beginning of the episode,

372
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,480
how? 
Very long swaths of these many, 

373
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,840
many centuries that how Stark 
has been in charge. 

374
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,000
They didn't have threats. 
As best as we can tell, they had

375
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,160
the North on lockdown. 
No one's going to stand up to 

376
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,400
the Starks. 
You you're just going to lose 

377
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,440
right now. 
That said, we see rebellions and

378
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,600
wars started that look kind of 
dumb. 

379
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,600
Like why did you ever think you 
had a chance? 

380
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:34,880
Fiction and the real world, 
right? 

381
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,360
So you got to throw in some 
examples every once in a while. 

382
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,360
But if these are bad ideas, then
that means the Stark probably 

383
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:43,840
didn't have that much problem 
with them. 

384
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:50,000
Which means they again limited 
opportunity to use ice in 

385
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,600
battle, even if you are the rare
Stark capable of doing so. 

386
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,520
I mean, compare the sword to 
Dawn. 

387
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,720
Dawn's a great example. 
Dawn's also a great sword. 

388
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,720
It's not valerian steel, but as 
far as we know it has very 

389
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,920
similar properties, Weight, 
length. 

390
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,520
Nothing that should make it 
differ any different to wield in

391
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,960
battle than Ice. 
And unless it lices longer, 

392
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,480
which it it could be, but I 
don't think it is, I think 

393
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,520
they're roughly the same length.
They're both great swords. 

394
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,440
We don't hear that Ice is a 
particularly big great sword. 

395
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,000
It's just great swords are big. 
They're not for regular sized 

396
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,880
people usually. 
They are for larger people 

397
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,960
generally speaking. 
There are exceptions, of course.

398
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,760
Arthur Dayne was a large man. 
You know, Jamie thought of him 

399
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,560
as stronger than him. 
And Jamie's not huge, but 

400
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,360
Jamie's like 6 foot, which is 
very big, 6 foot one. 

401
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,120
That's very large for Westeros. 
And it's well above average for,

402
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,560
you know, Western males in the 
year 2025 as well. 

403
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,280
I think the average height for 
Western males is something like 

404
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,600
5 foot 85 foot 9 maybe. 
So, yeah. 

405
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,040
So these are large people we're 
talking about, for example, 

406
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,760
Rickon. 
Rickon Stark as in the FA of the

407
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,240
son of Cregan, his first son, 
the one who was heir to 

408
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,600
Winterfell for a long time. 
He died in Dorn, right? 

409
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,880
Died during Darren's conquest 
with Dorn near the end. 

410
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,480
He wasn't Lord Stark, but that's
an example of someone who could 

411
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,520
have theoretically wielded ice 
in battle if he were the right 

412
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,400
size to. 
I doubt he was, but it doesn't 

413
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,920
have to be the Lord Stark who 
wielded either. 

414
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,680
There's potentially the air can 
as well. 

415
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,320
Kind of like Dark Sisters, 
sometimes wielded by a Prince of

416
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,200
House Targaryen and occasionally
even Black fire was. 

417
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,120
No, if that's the person who's 
going to inherit, like Baylor 

418
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,840
Brake Spear, we're pretty sure 
wielded black fire before he 

419
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,680
inherited it. 
Well, he never inherited it. 

420
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,840
He died before he inherited. 
But yeah, so if he ever wielded 

421
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,640
black Fire, it was it was ahead 
of time. 

422
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,880
But he did. 
He couldn't have really, because

423
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,040
that was given to Damon. 
But the point stands. 

424
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,160
In theory, though, the 
inheritors can wield the sword. 

425
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,080
It doesn't have to only be 
wielded by the Lord. 

426
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,240
There are exceptions. 
He wasn't married, which is 

427
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,120
something we'll talk about in a 
little more detail later. 

428
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,840
But in line with not being 
married, maybe he was planning 

429
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,680
on joining the Night's Watch 
again. 

430
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,200
Ninth child, fourth son, farther
down the line than Benjen, 

431
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,400
right? 
Plenty of Starks joined the 

432
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,240
Night's Watch, so maybe that was
what he was planning on doing. 

433
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,000
But then stuff happened. 
His brother dies, his father 

434
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,000
died, all these things, and he's
like, well, maybe I shouldn't go

435
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,080
running off and join the Night's
Watch. 

436
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,960
The problem with this theory is 
that if he had joined the 

437
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,240
Night's Watch, he would have 
done it as a young man. 

438
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,920
And we're pretty sure he didn't 
die as too young of a man. 

439
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,360
I mean, he, we're pretty sure he
lived to be over 30 or around 

440
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:31,920
30. 
So there are there are some 

441
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,520
flaws with that idea. 
And of course, you can see why I

442
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,720
would say Black Sword, Night's 
Watch, Black Brother, right? 

443
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,160
I don't know, it's a little bit 
of a stretch, but we're trying 

444
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,840
to come up with some ideas here.
And that would also help explain

445
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,600
why he wasn't married, by the 
way, if he was playing on during

446
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:48,880
the nights Watch. 
Well, you're not going to get 

447
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,240
married if that's your goal. 
So that that at least fits quite

448
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,280
well. 
What about temperament, like a 

449
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,120
black mood, black humor, a guy 
that's just always down, like he

450
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,080
doesn't have the Blues, he has 
the the blacks. 

451
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,040
What does that mean? 
You know we hear that term 

452
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,840
thrown around a lot, though, 
like that color is associated 

453
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,840
with negativity for emotions, 
right? 

454
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,840
Even though the opposite isn't? 
You don't say white mood, right?

455
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,600
I don't know. 
Anyway, that's got nothing to do

456
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,640
with anything. 
We're just, I'm just thinking 

457
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,800
about semantics briefly here. 
So he was in a black mood, and 

458
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,720
not just because a few St. 
urchins wanted to pelt him with 

459
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,640
dung, right? 
That's, that's a line, another 

460
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,320
line we have. 
This is a poison that I hold. 

461
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,680
She thought I ought to burn it. 
Instead, she cracked the seal. 

462
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,560
A scrap of leather fluttered 
down into her lap when she read 

463
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,320
the dry brown words. 
Her black mood grew blacker 

464
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,600
still. 
Dark wings, dark words. 

465
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,640
That is Asha receiving the skin 
of Theon in a letter. 

466
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,720
That's what the little cracked 
scrap of leather was. 

467
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,280
So yeah, or Nina suggests Black 
Walder Frey. 

468
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,840
He is named Black Walder Frey 
for his bad temper. 

469
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,680
He's also violent. 
His temper makes him violent. 

470
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,600
He's also ambitious and has 
murdered from his own family, so

471
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,000
that's associated with it too. 
Yeah, maybe that's what we're 

472
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,760
dealing with here. 
Maybe Barth Blacksword was a 

473
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:18,480
Black Walder Frey type figure 
who was seen as an enemy amongst

474
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,000
his own family or a a dangerous 
individual who that's why he 

475
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,880
didn't have friends or a wife or
what have you. 

476
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,600
And maybe he was downright 
villainous, which that probably 

477
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,040
does apply to Black Walder Frey 
as well. 

478
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,800
It's hard to call him a villain 
when he's murdering Frey's. 

479
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,920
No, he is. 
He's pretty villainous. 

480
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,560
Kin Slang's rough business man 
May, yeah. 

481
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,720
So maybe he actually usurped 
Winterfell from his nephew or 

482
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,040
his brother. 
Probably not, but there is 

483
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,600
enough room for theories like 
this. 

484
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,600
Well, enough room for theories 
like this to work. 

485
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,680
The problem with it is if he 
kills his own brother, like in 

486
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,720
the Northerner who kills their 
own brother, that's especially a

487
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,840
Stark. 
You're going to lose some 

488
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,560
support. 
And if there's another Stark 

489
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,680
faction, it seems like that 
Stark faction would benefit 

490
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,760
greatly from a competing Stark 
faction being guilty of 

491
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,640
kinslaying, right? 
So I don't know that's a little 

492
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,160
that one might be going too far,
but it's all it's absolutely 

493
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,120
again, worth considering. 
These are all valid theories for

494
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:22,280
a character in this timeline 
with a nickname like this. 

495
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,720
Nina also adds look about the 
quote from Sir Illifer, the 

496
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,440
Black Bat of Loston. 
We did a recent episode on House

497
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,080
Loston. 
He said black is the deeds of 

498
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,360
them that bore it, including a 
Manfred of the Black Hood. 

499
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,160
Yeah. 
So there's a simplicity here, 

500
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,760
but it's consistent in Westeros 
with seeing dark colors 

501
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,480
associated with villainy. 
Or that's a segue to this 

502
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,960
question we've been dancing 
around, which is why wasn't he 

503
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,040
ever married? 
Let's talk about why it's so 

504
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,880
unusual that he wasn't married 
beyond the fact that most Lords 

505
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,760
get married. 
That's all right. 

506
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,120
By itself, that's unusual, 
right? 

507
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,040
So to start off, it's unusual 
because he had two older 

508
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,840
brothers, Jonal, who became 
known as Jonal One Eye, and 

509
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,040
Edrick, who didn't have a 
nickname. 

510
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,560
And then a younger brother named
Brandon because, well, you can 

511
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,840
only go so long in a Stark 
family without getting another 

512
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,760
Brandon in there. 
In fact, that Brandon is who all

513
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,440
the current Starks descend from,
right? 

514
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,560
Figures, right? 
So but all those other three 

515
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,960
brothers got married. 
Brandon like I said, all the 

516
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,160
current Starks descend through 
him. 

517
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,680
So he clearly got married and he
got married to a Karstark and 

518
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,400
Alice Karstark of in fact Rick 
on first son of Kragen had two 

519
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,520
daughters, Serena and Sansa. 
There's some confusion in the 

520
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,200
wiki and some of the literature 
that George is in his notes 

521
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,400
about which one of them was 
elder were we're going with 

522
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,280
Sansa being the elder or yeah, 
go with Sansa being the elder 

523
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,160
here, but it's possible their 
names are flipped. 

524
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,040
It doesn't make a huge amount of
difference to the way we're 

525
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,720
going to tell the story. 
Just throw that out there as a 

526
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,480
possible note on how this was 
designed. 

527
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,760
So it's weird, right? 
You have Barth's elder brothers 

528
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,440
marrying the two daughters of 
their other elder brother, half 

529
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,880
brother, and then Brandon, his 
younger brother, marries A 

530
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,200
Karstark, but he doesn't get 
married at all. 

531
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,280
What's up with that? 
It seems like they were trying 

532
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,440
to create plenty of Starks, 
trying to make marriages to have

533
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,280
more Starks and to make more 
alliances. 

534
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,800
But this guy didn't get married 
at all. 

535
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:35,480
And some of them got married 
twice, Jonel one. 

536
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,680
I got married twice. 
And Brandon had a bastard before

537
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,880
he got married to Alice 
Karstark. 

538
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,920
He had a bastard son named Lonel
Snow. 

539
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,880
So they were kids popping up all
over the place, marriages, 

540
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,680
relationships, alliances. 
But somehow Barth was not 

541
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,320
involved in any of it. 
What's up with that? 

542
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,160
This definitely comes back to 
some of the stuff we were saying

543
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,560
about his, the nickname and how 
that might indicate A darker 

544
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,720
personality. 
This man may have been 

545
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,880
unsuitable to marriage because 
he was too violent. 

546
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:09,000
Maybe this was like a Magor type
guy and you're like, what good 

547
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,720
would it be to marry this boy to
a girl from another noble house 

548
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
with the intent of it being an 
alliance if he's going to 

549
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,560
mistreat her so badly that it 
turns a potential alliance into 

550
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,600
an enemy? 
Like like what Ramsay is doing 

551
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,720
to Jane Poole, who everybody 
thinks is Arya right there. 

552
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:36,200
Lady Dustin's like, yo, they 
like Arya, they love Arya and 

553
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,280
they think that's Arya. 
That's the unspoken part. 

554
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,240
Of course they hear her 
screaming and crying. 

555
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,520
That's not going to make them 
like the Boltons. 

556
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,080
In fact, that's going to do the 
opposite. 

557
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,920
You like, you got this marriage 
alliance, but you're turning it 

558
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,200
into an enemy instead of relying
on them for support. 

559
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,520
So even marriage alliances can 
become the opposite in such a 

560
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,680
case. 
So maybe that was the concern, 

561
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,160
Like, don't marry this guy to 
anyone. 

562
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,960
He's going to make that house 
hate us. 

563
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,000
He's going to mistreat whatever 
daughter they send, and that 

564
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,360
won't help us build an alliance.
Again, just one of many 

565
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,800
possibilities. 
But it's hard to come up with 

566
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,480
good reasons. 
Like, yeah, OK, maybe he was 

567
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,360
just gay, right? 
That's an easy go to like. 

568
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,880
But But again, that's not that 
doesn't settle it. 

569
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,120
That doesn't solve it. 
He might still get married to 

570
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,040
father to try to father 
children, to father father 

571
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,320
heirs, even if he's not into 
women. 

572
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,600
And he might not have a say in 
it. 

573
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,480
His father would make the 
arrangement. 

574
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,040
He's like dad, I don't like. 
He's not going to tell Cregan 

575
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,600
Stark that he doesn't like 
girls. 

576
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,600
This is not a society that works
that way. 

577
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,040
So either maybe his father 
figured that out and just let 

578
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,960
his like and just unspoken like 
he doesn't, he doesn't like 

579
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,280
women. 
We're just going to not talk 

580
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,280
about this and not make him get 
married. 

581
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,360
But I don't think it's something
you can look at and be like, oh,

582
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,120
well, that must be it. 
He didn't like women because it 

583
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,720
wasn't all in his control. 
It's not all his agency. 

584
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,440
Same with like a Renly or a 
maybe even a Brendan Blackfish. 

585
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,880
Now, Blackfish didn't get 
married, but we can't assume he 

586
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,840
didn't get married because of 
his sexuality. 

587
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,920
It's a very strong possibility, 
but there is no way we can be 

588
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,800
like, oh, definitively, 
definitely Brendan Blackfish was

589
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,120
gay. 
No, it's a strong possibility, 

590
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,440
but we can't be certain. 
It's very much in play here. 

591
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,240
Very much in play. 
He also could have been planning

592
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,280
to get married later. 
He could have been like, well, 

593
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,760
I'm waiting for a certain house 
to have a child. 

594
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,480
I want to maybe this guy is 
dying and I want to marry this, 

595
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040
this widow, you know, something 
like that. 

596
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,760
He he had a plan. 
He had a house he wanted to get 

597
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,320
married into. 
And the opportunity just never 

598
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,480
came up. 
Yeah. 

599
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,440
So maybe he planned on getting 
married later and it just didn't

600
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,200
happen. 
And then he then he was killed. 

601
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,960
And, well, then it became a moot
point after all. 

602
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,960
Dare on the first dare on the 
the young dragon, he went off to

603
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,280
conquer dorm before getting 
married. 

604
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,320
He very likely would have 
eventually gotten married, but 

605
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,840
because he never did, people 
say, well, maybe he wasn't into 

606
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,680
girls also. 
That's also possible. 

607
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,600
Yeah. 
But again, he very possibly 

608
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,440
would have tried to father 
children anyway because of 

609
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,520
dynastic concerns. 
So these things are tricky, very

610
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:13,760
tricky. 
You can't make assumptions. 

611
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,600
But we can cast a wide net. 
We can present a range of 

612
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,920
options. 
And with that range of options, 

613
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,840
we can see these possibilities 
bloom. 

614
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,520
And our imaginations are, are 
well, they're tickled, they're 

615
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,880
inspired, they're given a good 
run through here. 

616
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,240
Let's talk about the timeline, 
the setting and the era. 

617
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,760
What kind of time and place 
Black Sword was born into, what 

618
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,080
the North was like in this era. 
Some of this is a little bit 

619
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,120
familiar, but I mean it's a 
little different because I have 

620
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,120
some different takes on some of 
these dates. 

621
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,680
Thin slicing. 
This era, like I said at the 

622
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,880
beginning, has given me a 
different take on a lot of the 

623
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,120
dates for some of these 
children, for some of these 

624
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,120
Starks that came after Kragen. 
Kragen was born in one O 8. 

625
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,960
His young wife, Aranori died 20 
years later, giving birth to 

626
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,880
Ricken. 
Ricken was growing up, was a 

627
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,040
young boy when Kragen remarried 
at the end of the Dance of the 

628
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:18,120
Dragons to of course, Black 
Alley Blackwood in the year 132,

629
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,960
roughly to the year 140. 
Sometime around that range would

630
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,680
have been when Kragen and Black 
Alley had their four daughters, 

631
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:32,640
Sarah, Alice, Raya, and Mariah. 
Now, probably sometime in the 

632
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,560
one 40s, maybe early one 40s, 
maybe mid one 40s, maybe even 

633
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:42,960
later, but definitely before the
conquest of Dorn in 157, Black 

634
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,720
Alley would have died so well 
before her time like this is she

635
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,360
was 16 ish when the dance broke 
out. 

636
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:56,640
So this is we're talking, you 
know, probably she might not 

637
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,440
have made it to her mid 30s. 
So that's tragic. 

638
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,400
Most likely certainly not a good
thing, right? 

639
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,960
So Kragen would have been deeply
impacted by that, assuming their

640
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,520
marriage went as well as the 
beginning of their relationship 

641
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,480
seemed to have gone. 
Certainly having four daughters 

642
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,320
implies their relationship was 
going pretty well. 

643
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,320
They were certainly sharing each
other's bed frequently. 

644
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,719
At least you can imply that at 
least at the beginning. 

645
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:26,080
So around maybe the same time, 
maybe a little later or roughly 

646
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,360
around the same time, Ricken 
would have married Jane 

647
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,120
Manderly, right? 
And there would have been 

648
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,440
pressure for them to have kids 
because Craig and he's the only 

649
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,040
Ricken's the air and there's no 
other boys. 

650
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,800
There's no other heirs. 
There's just there's girls, 

651
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:44,159
which now this is a a funky 
conversation to have about women

652
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,800
inheriting in Winterfell. 
We all here agree that a woman 

653
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,040
should be capable of ruling 
Winterfell. 

654
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,719
I think most of us agree on that
anyway. 

655
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,719
And we may even see it by the 
end of the series. 

656
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,080
It may be Santa who's in charge 
at the end that may that may be 

657
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,000
where we at. 
We may finally, that streak may 

658
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,240
finally be broken. 
But here's a guy, Kragen, who's 

659
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,800
just saw the Dance of the 
Dragons play out. 

660
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,640
He might have seen Rainier as 
capable. 

661
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,040
He backed her. 
He backed Jace, her son. 

662
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,840
He was ready for it. 
He's like, yeah, we did. 

663
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,680
We took our oath. 
We're following through with it.

664
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,520
But what what actually happened 
was a whole half of the realm 

665
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,440
was like, no, we don't want a 
woman to rule. 

666
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:23,800
That's not really why they rose 
up. 

667
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,200
They rose up because they wanted
to be on the side of the Greens,

668
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,680
and the Greens we're using woman
as an excuse to take the throne.

669
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,800
It was about power. 
That's the real bottom line 

670
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,520
here. 
But that's not what most people 

671
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,720
saw it as. 
The cover story was, we can't 

672
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:39,000
have a woman ruler or we can't 
have bastards inherit thrown 

673
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,240
after all these reasons, right? 
But the bottom line is it's all 

674
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,160
about power. 
So the same thing is happening 

675
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,720
in the North. 
Kragen's like, I could have one 

676
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:50,320
of my daughter's inherit 
Winterfell. 

677
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,160
I know she's capable or, or 
maybe he doesn't, but let's say 

678
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,040
he did. 
They were raised by Black Alley.

679
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,160
So maybe they were at least one 
of these four daughters was like

680
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,160
had her gumption, her toughness,
her strength, her her bravery, 

681
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,960
you know, her ability to exist 
in a man's world of power and 

682
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,880
and hold her own. 
But if she wasn't around to 

683
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,800
imbue that in her daughters, or 
none of them were cut from the 

684
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,560
same cloth, then there's that's 
a problem. 

685
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,560
It's like, well, theoretically, 
Cragen's fine with the idea of a

686
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,120
woman ruling Winterfell, but not
maybe one of these particular 

687
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,960
four women. 
Maybe they weren't cut from that

688
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,280
claw. 
They they weren't Lady of 

689
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,200
Winterfell material like a Sansa
or a black alley or he just 

690
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,720
like, this is just too much 
trouble. 

691
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,200
I think they're capable. 
I think one of them's capable, 

692
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,160
but the North is not going to 
accept it. 

693
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,880
And I'm not about to just have 
another war. 

694
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,360
Better to just have a son and 
avoid all that nonsense in the 

695
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,120
1st place. 
Yeah, we should have women in 

696
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,560
charge, but maybe we just can't 
afford to have a war over it. 

697
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,360
Either way, the pressure is 
there to have kids. 

698
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,160
I mean, you're the heir to 
Winterfell, you're going to want

699
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,040
to have kids regardless. 
So there's there's double 

700
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,880
pressure on Ricken and Jane 
Manderly to have kids in the 

701
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,560
early to mid one 50s. 
So we're not quite to the 

702
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,360
conquest of Dorn yet, but we're 
a few years before it. 

703
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,280
We're still in the reign of 
Aegon the Third. 

704
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,080
Santa and Serena are born to 
Ricken and Jane. 

705
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:20,320
No boys, 2 girls in 157. 
Ricken presumably with a bunch 

706
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,800
of other northern kids his age. 
Think of Brandon going off with 

707
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,160
his companions. 
Ricken isn't going to go fight 

708
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,720
in a war in Dorn without a bunch
of other nobles from the North 

709
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:34,000
his age in his contingent in his
retinue, right? 

710
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,280
Maybe some of them died too. 
But he definitely died near in 

711
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,520
Sunspier near the end of the war
or near the end of the first 

712
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,800
part of the war. 
So there's no male heir to 

713
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,000
Winterfell now we've got Sansa 
as the heir presumptive. 

714
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,680
A boy could still be born to 
Kragen. 

715
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,840
Now only if he remarries, which 
apparently he did. 

716
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,880
Well he definitely did. 
I'm saying the apparently is. 

717
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,800
Apparently he did right around 
this time. 

718
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,160
He probably married almost 
immediately after the death of 

719
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,880
Ricken because the problem would
be staring him in the face 

720
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,840
either. 
I allow one of these women to 

721
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,920
inherit and face the possible 
issues of the North rejecting 

722
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,760
her, let alone she may not be 
capable, or remarry, try to have

723
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,200
a son and pass the crown of the 
throne of Winterfell, the seat 

724
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,640
of Winterfell, to this unborn 
child. 

725
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,960
That is apparently what he 
decided to do, to have to 

726
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,440
remarry and try to have more 
sons. 

727
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,960
What he did was marry someone 
named Lenara Stark. 

728
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,280
Pauline, another Stark. 
So it sounds like incest. 

729
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,280
It's actually not that 
incestuous, even though she was 

730
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,320
a Stark. 
Lenara Stark descended from 

731
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:48,040
Brandon the Boisterous. 
Brandon the Boisterous was the 

732
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,280
son who inherited from Torin 
Stark. 

733
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,640
So this branch broke apart like 
160 years before. 

734
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,280
So they haven't they you have to
go back like 100 and 6000 and 50

735
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,200
years to find a common ancestor 
between Lenara Stark and Craig 

736
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,320
and Stark. 
So that's actually quite that's 

737
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,120
not incestuous. 
They have the same last name, 

738
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,520
but that's far enough for me in 
the in the past. 

739
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,280
No, no conjoined bloodlines for 
over 150 years. 

740
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,240
That's good enough for me. 
I wouldn't call that incest. 

741
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,160
Nina has a very interesting 
theory here that it's something 

742
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:23,720
like a Viserys the first Allison
scenario where you have a sad 

743
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:28,360
widower, in his case, a twice 
widower who has an uncertain 

744
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,040
succession situation going on. 
Even maybe he doesn't see it as 

745
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,880
so uncertain, but maybe he does.
But Sarah's didn't. 

746
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,960
Maybe he should have. 
And Craig seems to have had a 

747
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,640
type. 
Aranori was was a hill Klansman,

748
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,280
a daughter. 
So she was probably pretty 

749
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,880
tough, Probably certainly not a 
court a woman of of dresses in 

750
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,800
court as from what we could 
gather from that upbringing. 

751
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,120
Alison Blackwood, Black Alley 
also not she's a warrior woman, 

752
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,200
an Archer, a battler, A 
campaigner, a fighter. 

753
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,800
So yeah, not another not a a 
courtly woman either in terms of

754
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,520
that. 
So maybe this is the kind of 

755
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,040
maybe this is what Lenara was or
maybe she was the alternative 

756
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,600
that he had never had a 
relationship with. 

757
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,960
Either way, the fact that she 
was a Stark is telling in in the

758
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,720
terms of. 
Establishing a new Stark branch.

759
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:25,320
That's very Stark, right? 
And he may have been feeling a 

760
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,720
little bit like Robb Stark. 
He was so distraught in the loss

761
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:34,640
of Ricken that he looked to 
someone else for comfort. 

762
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,800
And Lenara was there, this 
cousin who was already, say, had

763
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,160
a job at Winterfell. 
She was part of court. 

764
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,040
You know, it's pretty easy to 
imagine that being the case, 

765
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,280
just like it was with Allison. 
And, yeah, Jane Westerly 

766
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,880
comforted Rob after he found out
about what happened to 

767
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,920
Winterfell and and the news that
Brandon Ricken were killed. 

768
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,800
Obviously, that's not what 
happened, but he heard about it 

769
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,960
and and he had no reason to 
doubt it at the time. 

770
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,280
So, yeah, maybe Craigen was 
suffering here. 

771
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,320
He's lost his son. 
He's worried about the future of

772
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,120
the North. 
And here's Lenara Stark, 

773
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560
presumably a lot younger than 
him because if the goal is to 

774
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,440
have children, well, you're 
probably not going to marry 

775
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,080
someone whose childbearing years
are are sun setting. 

776
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,280
So yeah, she's probably a lot 
younger. 

777
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,320
And especially the the evidence 
given how many children they did

778
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,280
have, which is several, 5 
actually. 

779
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,440
Yeah. 
That also implies that she was a

780
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,920
bit on the younger end. 
So that's what happens. 

781
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,960
They she he gets married to 
Lenara Stark and they just start

782
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,360
having children. 
It's like the opposite of the 

783
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,040
problem they had before. 
They're like, are we ever going 

784
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,080
to have a son? 
All of a sudden? 

785
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,960
They have a bunch of sons. 
So roughly around the late one 

786
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:47,400
50s, early one 60s, Jonel was 
born, then Edrick, then Serena 

787
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,200
was betrothed or married to Lord
John Umber around this time. 

788
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,000
Now you were like, wait, Aziz, 
you said Serena got married to 

789
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,120
Edrick. 
Yes, but not right away. 

790
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:09,080
First she married John Umber in 
the then in the 161, the young 

791
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,080
dragon died in Dorn at the 
parlay, right? 

792
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,240
And soon after, based on our 
guests, their sister Liana was 

793
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:19,120
born. 
So we have a John ol Edrick and 

794
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,400
now Liana and then roughly 2 
years later, Barth, again, our 

795
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,120
subject Black Barth, no being 
Barth, Black Sword rather is 

796
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,760
born. 
And then maybe another year or 

797
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,880
two later, Brandon is born. 
Now, we said at the beginning 

798
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,640
that Aegon the Third was close 
to Krigan and he that proximity,

799
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,600
that relationship gave a lot of 
benefits to House Stark. 

800
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,080
We don't know what any of those 
benefits were, but I'm pretty 

801
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,920
sure that's gone by this point. 
I'm pretty sure that closeness 

802
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,320
to House Targaryen is falling 
off Egan the Third's dead. 

803
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,520
His heirs weren't ruling the 
throne any at all the way he 

804
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,440
was. 
He might feel a little 

805
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,320
bitterness after what Daron took
his son and got him killed and 

806
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,440
Dorn. 
And then the next ruler is 

807
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,080
Baylor the Blessed, who we have 
several episodes about him now, 

808
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,000
three of them out. 
Shout out Nina for all her work 

809
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,320
on that. 
Baylor's only interest in the 

810
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,040
North that we know of was 
negative. 

811
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,440
He had negative interest in the 
north. 

812
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,480
He didn't like the old gods. 
He didn't like the way they 

813
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,480
worship. 
So that's not going to make 

814
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,600
Kragen feel any better. 
That's not going to make their 

815
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,520
relationship stronger. 
So not only is there reason to 

816
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,920
think that this had expired 
through reasons of time passing,

817
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,000
but there's active negativity 
coming from the Iron Throne 

818
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,200
towards the north in the early 
mid one 70s. 

819
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,320
This is when it gets really 
weird. 

820
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,840
This is when the marriages start
to get strange. 

821
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,840
And this is when we the the 
theories get interesting too, 

822
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,040
because to explain these things,
I don't mean weird like it 

823
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,080
doesn't make sense. 
I mean like, stuff must have 

824
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,680
been really going on here to 
make these decisions happen. 

825
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,920
What was going on? 
Jonel married Sansa. 

826
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,840
OK, this is a uniting of the two
branches, Rickon's elder 

827
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,560
daughter and eldest child and 
his next oldest brother. 

828
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,400
Or if you're looking at it from 
Kragen's perspective, who 

829
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,360
probably arranged this marriage 
because he was probably still 

830
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,000
alive. 
He was marrying his 

831
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,960
granddaughter through his first 
wife to his son through his 

832
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,880
third wife. 
Say that again. 

833
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,000
Kragen arranged the marriage of 
his granddaughter through his 

834
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,360
first wife to his son through 
his third wife. 

835
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:18,480
Yeah. 
That's not very Stark like, is 

836
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,400
it? 
When else have we seen Starks 

837
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,520
get married with that much 
consanguinity? 

838
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,560
Consanguinity. 
Ricard Stark, father of Ned and 

839
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,520
Brandon and Liana and Benjen, 
married his first cousin Liara. 

840
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,920
Right. 
That's the closest one we know 

841
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:35,320
of. 
Now. 

842
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,040
Again, we've said how many 
thousands of years of stark 

843
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,080
history we just don't have a a 
single iota of information on. 

844
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,360
So it's possible we have, it's 
possible the Starks have a 

845
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,320
higher threshold for what counts
as incest than we thought. 

846
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:50,960
That's might be what's going on 
here a little bit. 

847
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,160
But still, this is still the 
most extreme example we have. 

848
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,440
And I'm not just going to set 
that aside, be like, meh, that 

849
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,600
probably doesn't mean anything. 
No, I think it means something. 

850
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,120
I think they were trying to 
prevent problems from happening 

851
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,720
and maybe even prevent some 
current problems from developing

852
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:05,640
even farther. 
I think there's a lot of 

853
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,040
forethought in these, but it's 
it's a difficult to figure out 

854
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,960
exactly what they were trying to
worry about and what what 

855
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,960
alliances they were shoring up, 
things like that. 

856
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,360
Well, we will continue to bring 
up some theories though 

857
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,320
throughout the episode. 
Then in the year, in the year 

858
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,280
170, here's something very 
interesting happened. 

859
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,560
It was a great melee at Last 
Hearth, which is of course the 

860
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,200
seat of house Umber and here's 
what happened. 

861
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,240
Quote. 
Northmen fight a horse with war 

862
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:39,200
lances but seldom tilt for 
sport, preferring melees that 

863
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,760
are only just this side of 
battles. 

864
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:47,280
There are accounts of contests 
that have lasted half a day and 

865
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,120
left fields trampled and 
villages half torn down. 

866
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,200
Serious injuries are common in 
such a melee, and deaths are not

867
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,000
unheard of in the great melee at
Last Hearth. 

868
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:07,160
In 170 AC, it is said that no 
fewer than 18 men died, and half

869
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,680
again that number were sorely 
maimed before the day was done. 

870
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:17,760
That type of result has maker of
blood feuds written all over it 

871
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,520
in blood, right? 
Which means conflicts, which 

872
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,240
means potentially generational 
conflicts. 

873
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:27,080
Things that last for the lives 
of multiple family members maybe

874
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,200
20406080 years, these kind of 
stories. 

875
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,480
So this is potential context if 
not outright setup for the sort 

876
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,400
of factionalism in the North. 
Even at Winterfell present in 

877
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,920
this post Cregenstark era. 
Nina says think about the 

878
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,480
tournament in two O 6 AC in 
King's Landing when Otho Bracken

879
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,200
murdered Quentin Blackwood, 
presumably using the pretext of 

880
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,320
turning violence like the guy 
bashed his skull in and he's 

881
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,200
like, yeah, what could I do? 
It was. 

882
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,400
It's a tournament. 
All's fair in tournaments, 

883
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:56,680
right? 
Yeah. 

884
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,840
Even though you're bludgeoning 
this man's skull in. 

885
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,440
Yeah, Yeah, No, it's all in the.
Yeah. 

886
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,760
So these are things that we've 
seen before. 

887
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,240
Look at. 
Look what Gregor did. 

888
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,040
And people use tournament 
violence as an excuse for real 

889
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,440
violence. 
It was literally a plot point in

890
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,600
early Game of Thrones, trying to
trick Robert through reverse 

891
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,360
psychology into entering the 
melee so that someone could kill

892
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,320
him and be like, I don't know 
who did it. 

893
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:26,280
We don't know this this sudden, 
you know, a sword swing, you 

894
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,080
know, errant hit him. 
You know, you who knows? 

895
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,200
You can't blame anyone for that.
So yeah, it's it's an abattoir, 

896
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,000
right? 
So, well, this is Blackwood 

897
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,320
Bracken, this example that Nina 
gives. 

898
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,640
So you it's really hard to 
believe that it was an accident,

899
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,240
right? 
He may have even entered the 

900
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:41,600
tourney specifically to kill 
this man. 

901
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,200
He's like otho Bracken's like, 
I'm going to enter the 

902
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,320
tournament and kill Quentin 
Blackwood. 

903
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,000
That's my purpose here. 
That was his need. 

904
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,760
That was the reason he did it. 
What about the tournament held 

905
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:56,040
for Rainier and Laynor when 
Kristen Cole just took it all 

906
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,600
out on Joffrey? 
Lundmuth? 

907
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,760
Just beat the guy to death, 
basically, right? 

908
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,120
I mean, we all know what really 
happened there. 

909
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,080
He was mad, and he used the 
tournament as an excuse to 

910
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,120
extract violent revenge. 
It's interesting to speculate 

911
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:18,760
whether this Grant melee in 170 
was organized by Serena. 

912
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,760
Serena Stark married to Lord 
John in this era. 

913
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,320
They might have held this 
tournament with the explicit 

914
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:31,880
reason of getting rid of some of
the excess Starks. 

915
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,880
And this comes back to against 
Cersei and the Tourney of the 

916
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,720
Hand and maybe offing Robert in 
a sneaky method that no one 

917
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:40,800
would be able to trace to her, 
or at least they wouldn't be 

918
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,000
able to pin on her. 
They might suspect it, but there

919
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,440
wouldn't be any way to prove it.
So very case like this great. 

920
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,800
These melees are more violent 
than tournaments. 

921
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,560
It would be easier to pull 
something like this off in this 

922
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,160
setting than it would be in a 
regular tournament because it's 

923
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,040
more normal for this level of 
violence. 

924
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,520
So we got 18 men killed. 
And these are remember, these 

925
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,560
are you don't have a lot of 
regular rank and file folk 

926
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,560
entering these terms. 
These are like the scions of 

927
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,760
noble houses are the ones who 
enter these things. 

928
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,720
It's the the big prominent folk,
the ones that can afford a full 

929
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:13,320
set of armor and horses and all 
the stuff you need. 

930
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,280
There's not a lot of, you know, 
free riders entering these types

931
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:26,480
of events, so it is very much a 
setup for potential sneaky 

932
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,440
murders. 
And this lady Serena is somebody

933
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:34,840
we're going to keep in mind as 
someone that might have made 

934
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,280
moves, might have felt like, 
hey, I was cheated out of my 

935
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,800
inheritance. 
I should be the Lady of 

936
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,720
Winterfell. 
I'm the first born or you know, 

937
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:48,880
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm descendant of
the heir to Winterfell, Rick and

938
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,200
Stark. 
And it shouldn't have passed 

939
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,040
over me. 
This is how Searcy's are made. 

940
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,480
People who are cheated out of 
power based on silly things like

941
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,920
gender. 
So this also could have been 

942
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,000
where John Umber died. 
John Umber never actually had 

943
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,040
children with Serena, which is 
part of the reason she 

944
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,000
remarries. 
And it's a little simpler than 

945
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,600
it could have been because, you 
know, and she has having 

946
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,760
children with two different 
houses that can get a little 

947
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,240
entangling. 
But but anyway, they didn't have

948
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:22,320
kids. 
And maybe he was the victim of 

949
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:23,920
this. 
Maybe he was killed during this 

950
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,280
melee by someone that wanted her
detached from that marriage or 

951
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:33,280
just someone that didn't like 
Lord John Umber This could be an

952
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,120
attempt even by Edrick Jonnell's
younger brother to kill Serena's

953
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,040
husband and seize her claim, 
right? 

954
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,760
Because eventually Edrick is 
going to marry her and have a 

955
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,160
bunch of children with her that 
Lord John Umber never did. 

956
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,400
So you can see how these these 
these machinations, how these 

957
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,480
gears are ticking. 
We don't think Barth was old 

958
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,240
enough to fight in this great 
melee. 

959
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,760
But if he was, if our timeline 
is off by enough and he did 

960
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,320
fight in it, then it's 
potentially where he earned the 

961
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,080
nickname, you know, kind of 
bearish in the bold. 

962
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,920
Got the bold when he was 10, 
right? 

963
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,560
So you can get these nicknames 
pretty young. 

964
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:13,320
Not, not most people don't get 
those nicknames so young, but it

965
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,560
can happen. 
And a good example of an 

966
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,200
inferral here. 
That melee. 

967
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,760
Yeah. 
How often these things happen? 

968
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,200
When do we have other examples 
of a great melee? 

969
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,600
Nowhere. 
The answer is nowhere. 

970
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,400
We have no other examples of 
these things. 

971
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,840
Apparently they happen, but we 
have no other specific examples.

972
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,040
And it doesn't sound like 
they're terribly common. 

973
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,040
So that makes it stand out even 
more that this event was 

974
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,880
organized around the time of a 
lot of these troubles and may 

975
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,680
have been part of the troubles 
itself, kind of a underhanded 

976
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,560
way for to get rid of some 
people. 

977
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,040
So it might be on the way out as
a tradition. 

978
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,520
Can you imagine Ned Stark, like,
agreeing to something like that?

979
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,920
I mean, he might not stop it, 
but he certainly wouldn't hold 

980
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,560
it himself. 
He wouldn't be like, yeah, let's

981
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:57,800
let's have a great melee where 
people kill each other. 

982
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,360
And this sounds great. 
Sounds like a really good use of

983
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,720
our our time, especially after 
the new War for the dawn. 

984
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:08,080
If you imagine an era in the 
North after the others are 

985
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,880
defeated, are they? 
They're really not going to want

986
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,280
to do violence for fun, right? 
They're like, OK, every living 

987
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,320
person that's an adult faced the
others, or at least the damage 

988
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,000
they caused. 
Like we do not need play 

989
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,520
fighting. 
We've we've faced actual death. 

990
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,760
We're good so late one 70s, 
early one 80s. 

991
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,040
This is this is when it gets 
even trickier. 

992
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,120
John ol marries Sansa and Edrick
marries Serena. 

993
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,280
You would expect John ol marry. 
And this is part of why it's so 

994
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,320
weird is Sansa's might be the 
younger ones. 

995
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,200
You might have the older brother
marrying the younger 

996
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,040
granddaughter and the second son
second brother marrying the 

997
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,880
older sister. 
So a a granddaughter. 

998
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,680
It's so weird. 
You don't have to understand all

999
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,600
the insurance and outs of it. 
Just get that it's weird you 

1000
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,920
would expect John L and the 
younger girl to have more kids 

1001
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,080
'cause she's the younger girl 
there's more opportunity to have

1002
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,840
kids. 
But no John L and Santa had no 

1003
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,840
kids. 
Edrick and Serena however, lots 

1004
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,680
of kids roughly we'll say is 
starting in the early one 80s 

1005
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:20,760
Kriegard was born, then Torim, 
Arana and Erigel around this 

1006
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,520
time as well. 
Probably is when that Brandon 

1007
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,000
Stark the the next brother, the 
younger brother to Barthagon had

1008
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:33,120
Lonel Snow with a a woman named 
Willa Fenn, a Krannig woman 

1009
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,880
potentially or just a woman from
the neck. 

1010
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,040
And soon after that he got 
properly married to Alice Karr 

1011
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,120
Stark and started having kids 
there as well. 

1012
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,360
Rodwell Stark was born maybe 
around the same time and then 

1013
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:52,120
Baron Stark around the mid late 
one. 80s is probably when Kragen

1014
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,000
finally passed. 
He was called the Old man of the

1015
00:53:54,000 --> 00:54:02,640
North and well, old man. 
His tricky in Westeros because 

1016
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,520
their standard for old is a lot 
lower than ours. 

1017
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,920
Like we don't. 
Most people won't call someone 

1018
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,600
in their 60s particularly old, 
but it's pretty old for 

1019
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,000
Westeros. 
The old king was Jairus and he 

1020
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,880
died in his 60s. 
So that's the great example. 

1021
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,520
So I wouldn't. 
I'm guessing Craig had at least 

1022
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,280
made it to his 60s, but quite 
possibly made it to his 70s or 

1023
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,920
80s anyway. 
That would put him, his death 

1024
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,080
roughly in the middle, middle 
late one 80s. 

1025
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,920
And that would put John all one 
eye in charge of Winterfell, the

1026
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:33,120
first Lord, the first new Lord 
Stark of Winterfell since the 

1027
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,760
early 120, the mid the late 120.
So 50 years or more of one guy 

1028
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,760
ruling Winterfell. 
And though no one knew it at the

1029
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:47,760
time, they were going to have 
something like 7 or 8 Lord 

1030
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,000
Stark's over the next about 25 
to 30 years. 

1031
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,000
Just a no one. 
No stability whatsoever. 

1032
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,720
No consistency. 
The opposite of Kriegan's time, 

1033
00:54:57,720 --> 00:55:00,440
basically. 
But, yeah, they couldn't have 

1034
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,280
possibly seen that coming. 
Why would they have? 

1035
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,240
You know, Winterfell is eternal.
It's been there for so long. 

1036
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:07,280
They've never lost it. 
They've always gotten it back. 

1037
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,160
Things have always worked out. 
Yeah. 

1038
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,960
So John, the one I ascends 
again. 

1039
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,240
We'll say the late one, 80s. 
And in the early one, 90s, 

1040
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:20,680
though, things start to change. 
Edrick dies. 

1041
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:26,160
He is again the second son from 
Kragen's third wife, Lenara. 

1042
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,560
So this is Barthegan's older 
brother and Jonal's younger 

1043
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,240
brother, the second brother of 
four. 

1044
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,960
And not long after that, 
presumably Sansa dies. 

1045
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,040
We know she dies, and probably 
around the same time. 

1046
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,200
And this is when Serena's kids 
start to have other marriages. 

1047
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:50,280
New alliances start to form. 
Arana married Lord ozrich Umber,

1048
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,360
who was probably the son of Lord
John or the brother of Lord 

1049
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,720
John, Probably the brother 
actually, because John Umber 

1050
00:55:57,720 --> 00:55:59,720
didn't have kids with his Stark 
wife. 

1051
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,240
So, and he's so he's probably 
just the next one. 

1052
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,240
Lord Osric is described by 
George R Martin as loyal. 

1053
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,600
So that is important. 
Loyal to who? 

1054
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,800
Probably to Winterfell. 
I mean, that's generally what it

1055
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,680
means, right? 
That's what they're supposed to 

1056
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,880
be loyal to. 
That's the the default. 

1057
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,240
No reason to suspect otherwise. 
So we'll go with that. 

1058
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,200
So that's pretty interesting 
that this family's getting 

1059
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,280
smaller. 
All of a sudden there was all 

1060
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,720
these opportunities, all these 
marriages, and then some really 

1061
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:27,880
important people died, not just 
Cregan, but Sansa and Edrick, 

1062
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,320
and more marriages start to 
happen. 

1063
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,960
Then a big global event happens,
196, the first Blackfyre 

1064
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,840
rebellion. 
As best as we know, the Starks 

1065
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,880
weren't terribly involved. 
And that's interesting because, 

1066
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,440
well, we just got through saying
how they had that period of, of 

1067
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,000
closeness where Aegon the Third 
and Craig and Stark were pretty 

1068
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,000
close and, and good friends and 
all that. 

1069
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,800
And then that fell off, you 
know, because he, Aegon dies. 

1070
00:56:53,800 --> 00:57:00,000
And as we said, Deron and Baylor
and now we have this, the next 

1071
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,800
Deron and it's just many more 
kings have passed. 

1072
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,840
There's so much time has passed.
But the Black Fire Rebellion is 

1073
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:08,520
interesting, not just because 
the Starks may not have 

1074
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,200
participated in it, but because 
of the why they didn't 

1075
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,840
participate in it. 
It might be because of this. 

1076
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,040
It might be because of so much 
embroiling somewhat. 

1077
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,280
Last time they got involved, 
look what happened. 

1078
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,040
It didn't go very well. 
Maybe they should just stick to 

1079
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,280
their own problems. 
And as we're seeing, as we're 

1080
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,400
discussing, they had quite a 
few, There were things going on.

1081
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,040
There was instability at 
Winterfell. 

1082
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:34,200
We are told without detail that 
the this was a troublesome era. 

1083
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,320
Well, we do have some detail, 
but there's a lot more detail 

1084
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:38,920
that we're not getting. 
We know that the troubles go 

1085
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:43,960
beyond what we know in the late 
one 90s after the Black Fire 

1086
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,120
Rebellion. 
We have probably another 

1087
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:47,720
betrothal. 
Well, it definitely happened. 

1088
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,640
It may have happened before the 
Black Fire Rebellion. 

1089
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:56,880
This is Erigel, another daughter
of Serena Stark with Edrick 

1090
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,480
Stark. 
And they had this marriage is 

1091
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:06,720
Erigel to Lord Robard Serwin, 
another person that George RR 

1092
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,720
Martin calls loyal. 
So that's telling that both of 

1093
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:16,280
these two daughters of Serena 
and Edrick were two loyal Lords.

1094
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,920
So this may be a sign of 
rewarding loyalty rather than 

1095
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:23,800
shoring up someone that you 
already think is loyal. 

1096
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,320
Like if they're already loyal to
you, you might not need to do 

1097
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,200
the marriage alliance because 
you might want to say, hey, 

1098
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,800
let's, let's bring someone else 
into the fold that's only half 

1099
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,440
loyal. 
A marriage alliance will make 

1100
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,640
them fully loyal. 
We can already count on these 

1101
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,440
loyal numbers and servants. 
But that's not what they did. 

1102
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,440
They gave the marriages to the 
prior, the previously already 

1103
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,160
established loyal Lords. 
At least that's how I interpret 

1104
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:50,320
it. 
So Jonal remarries, He's like, I

1105
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,560
still don't have any kids. 
I never had any kids with Sansa.

1106
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,120
I want to have kids. 
He marries Robin Rizwell. 

1107
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,040
The Rizwells are another very 
powerful house in the North. 

1108
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,840
And it's the first mention 
through all all of this of 

1109
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,240
anyone in the western part of 
the North. 

1110
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,160
We've heard a lot about. 
We've heard Manderley, we've 

1111
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,320
heard about Karstark, we've 
heard about umber of course. 

1112
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,120
But the houses on over to the 
West haven't been mentioned. 

1113
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,320
Mormont hasn't been mentioned. 
Well, at least except for that 

1114
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,960
they're large people. 
But yeah, so Barreton and the 

1115
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,560
Dustins and the Rizwells hadn't 
come up at all. 

1116
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:25,200
So here they are. 
This might be another attempt to

1117
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,760
bring an important house into 
the fold after some of these 

1118
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:28,760
other things weren't working 
out. 

1119
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,840
And the Serwins, that's really 
important because the Serwins 

1120
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,080
are the most proximate to 
Winterfell. 

1121
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:36,720
They're the closest house to 
Winterfell. 

1122
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,880
Their castle is like a day and a
half away. 

1123
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:43,800
That's something that marks them
as a, as very loyal to the 

1124
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,160
Starks because of that 
proximity. 

1125
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,640
They are very dependable. 
There's, there's, as far as we 

1126
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,720
know, that's kind of an unbroken
line of loyalty. 

1127
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,200
They're like the Cassells or 
something like that, where 

1128
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,480
they're basically a house whose 
entire existence depends on 

1129
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,040
their loyalty to House Stark. 
But what happens if House Stark 

1130
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,120
is split, right? 
Which, which half of the house 

1131
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,480
do you stay loyal to? 
You know, it's not always so 

1132
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,200
simple. 
So Jonal wasn't able to have 

1133
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,680
children. 
He was still trying. 

1134
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,560
As we said, he remarried to 
Robin Rizwell, but the pressure 

1135
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,320
would have been off a bit. 
You know, maybe this is also why

1136
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,280
Bars never married, because by 
then Edrick and Serena had a lot

1137
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,800
of kids and Brandon and Alice 
Karstark had as well. 

1138
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,280
There were a lot of Stark kids 
now. 

1139
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:26,400
They went from no sons or one 
son to a bunch. 

1140
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,080
So they they solved that 
problem, but they may have 

1141
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:30,840
overshot. 
Because. 

1142
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,360
Too many Starks might be a 
bigger problem than too few 

1143
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:35,120
Starks. 
Which is? 

1144
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,480
That's certainly what happened 
with the Targaryens, isn't it? 

1145
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:42,360
It sure did. 
So moving forward, Jonel dies in

1146
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,520
the early 2000s or 2000s. 
Early 2 hundreds most likely. 

1147
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,920
Black sword ascends. 
Barthegan is now Lord of 

1148
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:52,280
Winterfell. 
I'm going to guess it was about 

1149
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:56,560
the year 2O42 O 5:00-ish, which 
puts him. 

1150
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,680
Our guess was that he was born 
in 164, so he would have already

1151
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,680
been about 40 years old at this 
time. 

1152
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,080
So not a young man at all. 
And that's a difference from 

1153
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,040
what I had said before. 
If attentive listeners will 

1154
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,840
recall some of my takes on the 
guesses of some of these 

1155
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,440
characters ages in the Kregan 
episode, I've changed my mind. 

1156
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,560
I think I undershot most of 
them. 

1157
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:17,920
Most of these Starks were older 
than I thought. 

1158
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:23,040
And the the thing, the mistake I
made was not giving enough 

1159
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,800
leeway for the marriages of 
Rickens daughters, Serena and 

1160
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:32,280
Sansa, to their own uncles, 
uncles who were probably younger

1161
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,480
than them, or at least the same.
It's again, just the weirdness 

1162
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:35,000
of this all. 
Yeah. 

1163
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,920
You got John all and Edrick 
marrying their own nieces who 

1164
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,240
were probably older than them. 
Yep. 

1165
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,400
What did I say? 
Weird marriages, Right. 

1166
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,880
This is not Stark. 
Like from from what we know 

1167
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:46,920
about the Starks. 
Yeah. 

1168
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,240
I mean, we're introduced to 
Starks that were so weren't even

1169
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,440
marrying in the North. 
Like Ned married Catelyn Tully. 

1170
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,680
She's a Riverlander, let alone 
marrying other Starks, right? 

1171
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:04,440
Rodwell and Baron, who are again
Barthegan's nephews through his 

1172
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,800
younger brother Brandon. 
They probably get married around

1173
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,840
this time. 
Baron Stark ended up having 

1174
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,280
seven children with his wife 
Laura Royce. 

1175
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:15,640
Yeah, bring a Royce into the 
mix. 

1176
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,080
Another outside the North type 
character. 

1177
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:19,400
And that's interesting in and of
itself. 

1178
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,600
It certainly implies potential 
add on to the factionalism 

1179
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,040
situation, you bringing in a 
major outside power that might 

1180
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,600
be able to supply support 
threats. 

1181
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,080
Just don't mess with us, we get 
the veil on our side. 

1182
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,440
Or if if it actually came to 
blows then you've got maybe veil

1183
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,800
Knights or at least veil gold 
flowing in to do some do some 

1184
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:42,480
good for whatever side is 
receiving it. 

1185
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:48,280
Which in this case would be the 
Baron Brandon faction of Starks 

1186
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:55,160
two O 6 is when Barth dies in 
Skagos, and this is where we'll 

1187
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,680
get into a lot greater detail 
once we're done with this little

1188
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,320
timeline section, which I'm 
calling little. 

1189
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,600
It's not very little, is it? 
This is a lengthy section, but I

1190
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,520
think it's a lot of fun. 
So that's what we'll basically 

1191
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,440
cut it off there minus. 
I'm going to give you a couple 

1192
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,720
of of dates that happened just 
after this to show you what this

1193
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,160
kicked off. 
Because as I said at the intro, 

1194
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:20,280
Barthagon's death seems to kick 
off the reign of, hey, it isn't 

1195
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:21,920
just an idea that the Starks are
weak. 

1196
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,880
Let's prove the Starks are weak 
and do something about it. 

1197
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,680
We had maybe 20 to 30 years of 
people going. 

1198
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,600
The Starks might be not as 
strong as they used to be, but 

1199
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,280
no one actually tested them. 
Barthagon Black Sword is when 

1200
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:40,840
that first Test came and he died
and more tests came from other 

1201
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,520
threats. 
And let's go through that real 

1202
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,160
quick. 
Brandon Stark takes over after 

1203
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,200
Barthagon doesn't last very long
either. 

1204
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,880
Rodwell Stark takes over for his
father. 

1205
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,840
Brandon doesn't last very long 
either. 

1206
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,200
We're talking 2-3 years at most 
for either of these guys. 

1207
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,040
Rodwell's younger brother Baron 
takes over. 

1208
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:01,600
Baron, who I just said had seven
children. 

1209
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:07,320
Baron we've heard of before. 
Baron is dying at the beginning 

1210
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,000
of the She Wolves of Winterfell,
which was originally planned to 

1211
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,960
be the 4th Dunkin Egg story. 
Now it looks like it's going to 

1212
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,720
be the 5th or the 6th, which 
might change the timeline 

1213
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,200
slightly. 
Originally we had Baron dying 

1214
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,600
around the year 212 or 213. 
Maybe we should push that a 

1215
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:25,440
year, but one year's not a big 
deal for our purposes here. 

1216
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,440
Either way, he's killed trying 
to push the Ironborn out of the 

1217
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,240
North. 
Dagon Greyjoy's Ironborn. 

1218
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,120
Dagon Greyjoy was active for 
perhaps the better part of a 

1219
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:42,760
decade, raiding up and down the 
West Coast, mostly harassing the

1220
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,320
Starks and Lannisters. 
The Starks and Lannisters worked

1221
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,040
together against Dagon and still
couldn't stop him. 

1222
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:54,160
It took the intervention of the 
throne under Bloodraven to stop 

1223
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,880
him under circumstances that are
still mysterious to us. 

1224
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:02,160
But you can see the weakness in 
the North that enabled Dagon 

1225
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,760
Greyjoy to do this. 
If the if, if we still had a 

1226
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,520
strong leader like Kragen in the
north, would Dagon have even 

1227
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:08,880
tried? 
Maybe. 

1228
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,760
We don't know, but I doubt he 
would have had the success he 

1229
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,480
had if it had. 
They'd had stronger, more 

1230
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,720
consistent leadership. 
And only about 11:50 to 13 years

1231
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,920
later, King be on the wall. 
Raymond Redbeard, a name that 

1232
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,760
should be familiar to all y'all,
comes over the wall and does 

1233
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,920
battle with Stark LED forces 
without the nights watch. 

1234
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:31,400
The Nights Watch was late under 
Sleepy Jack was the Lord 

1235
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,880
Commander, but with the support 
of Lord Harmon Umber. 

1236
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,040
So you have Lord Willem Stark 
with Lord Harmon Umber fighting 

1237
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,120
against King Beyond the Wall. 
Raymond Redbeard, what happens? 

1238
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:47,240
Lord William Stark is slain and 
beheaded at the Battle of Long 

1239
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,240
Lake. 
Yes, he was defeated and killed 

1240
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,640
and there was time enough to 
parade his head around on a pole

1241
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,160
like they it wasn't like a touch
and go kind of thing. 

1242
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,040
They had time to do that, maybe 
not a lot of time because 

1243
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,640
Willem's younger brother Artos 
the implacable, avenged him and 

1244
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,000
killed Raymond personally, so he
didn't have much time to enjoy 

1245
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,200
that head on a pole before his 
own head ended up on a pole, or 

1246
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,920
at least at the mercy of 
whatever Artos wanted to do with

1247
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,120
it. 
Willem's very young son Ed While

1248
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,080
would eventually inherit with 
Artos as region. 

1249
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,360
Presumably Ed While was Ned's 
grandfather. 

1250
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,360
So that gets us pretty close to 
the current timeline. 

1251
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,760
But of course that's beyond our 
story because Bartheon died 

1252
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,520
about 20 years prior to that 
Battle of Long Lake. 

1253
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:32,880
But again, the point was to show
how the Scagosi rebellion was 

1254
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,640
the first of several problems 
that show the weakness of 

1255
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:40,280
Winterfell for the next 20 to 30
years following it. 

1256
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:44,080
So you have a lot of Starks 
dying in short succession to RE 

1257
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,000
for reasons unknown, and then a 
lot of Starks dying in short 

1258
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:51,120
succession for reasons of 
violence of of invasions from 

1259
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,640
beyond the Wall, from the Iron 
Islands, and from their own 

1260
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,240
territory of Skagos. 
Skagos was part of the North. 

1261
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,760
Now think about this, the 
implied weakness here. 

1262
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,320
The Starks and their allies, 
even without the Night's Watches

1263
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:10,320
help, they should be able to 
handle an army of the Free Folk,

1264
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,080
given how undisciplined and 
technologically inferior the 

1265
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,880
Free Folk are. 
Look what Stannis did to them. 

1266
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:22,400
Hey, hey, hey, the free folk 
advocate here will stand up for 

1267
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:23,280
them. 
No, you're probably right. 

1268
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,840
Yeah, I mean, they were, to be 
fair, it was they were caught 

1269
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:27,120
off guard. 
It was a surprise. 

1270
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:29,720
It was an ambush by Stannis and 
Mel Saunder was blowing up 

1271
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,400
eagles out of the sky with their
powers. 

1272
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,760
But still, he only had like 300 
nights. 

1273
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,720
It was a it was a very small. 
He had 1500 men total and you 

1274
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:40,200
just wrecked them. 
So the point is, Winterfell was 

1275
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,760
repeatedly and sorely tested in 
this era, and they came up short

1276
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,880
frequently. 
It's like Willem Stark was 

1277
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:49,440
killed in battle against the 
Free Folk. 

1278
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,880
Barth Blackser was killed in 
battle against the Skaggs. 

1279
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,560
Like that's that's a big deal. 
Like what's going on here? 

1280
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:59,840
And again, we have other Starks 
who died maybe to violence. 

1281
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:01,280
All those Starks died in short 
succession. 

1282
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,360
Are we supposed to believe all 
of them just like had heart 

1283
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,120
attacks or something or got 
sick? 

1284
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,480
There was probably some other 
deaths to violence that would, 

1285
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,760
you know, spice up the situation
even more. 

1286
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:14,880
So again, that's why Barth is 
important because he's he's 

1287
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,000
seems to be the apex of this. 
This is he. 

1288
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,680
He's when this turned from 
theoretical to yeah, the Starks 

1289
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,840
really are weak. 
It was probably unstable when he

1290
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,880
took over, but there hadn't been
rebellions as far as we know. 

1291
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,359
So yeah, that's that's really 
important. 

1292
01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:35,479
And this toll would be taken 
repeatedly by all these 

1293
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:41,040
invasions, like the loss of so 
many thousands of men. 

1294
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,600
I mean, one war weakens you for 
the next war. 

1295
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,319
And we, we hear that thousands 
of men were killed on scaggles. 

1296
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:50,439
That's a lot. 
We'll get to that after our 

1297
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,920
break. 
Now, interestingly, the man who 

1298
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,319
broke the cycle was, I said 
Artos the implacable. 

1299
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,319
He's the one who beat the, the, 
the, the free Folk. 

1300
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,760
And then we don't hear about 
much trouble after that for a 

1301
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,439
while. 
He was not a Lord of Winterfell.

1302
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:09,920
He was a son, a second son and 
did get his own statue though, 

1303
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:11,680
but that's the end of the 
timeline. 

1304
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,680
Let's go back to a little bit at
the beginning and a little more 

1305
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,920
of of Kragen's legacy and his 
descendants. 

1306
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:24,399
But first let us briefly talk 
about some other things our 

1307
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:26,800
friends over at the show. 
Hit points not required. 

1308
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,080
That's our good friend Chuck 
Lazarow, Chuck Chuck Laws, 

1309
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,240
destroyer of evil, our good 
friend with the nickname Night 

1310
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:36,479
Blood. 
Do you like Critical Role and 

1311
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:41,240
other similar TTRPG channels? 
They are dedicated to all things

1312
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,359
TTRPG that is hit points not 
required. 

1313
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,520
They have a mixture of actual 
play streams and chatting 

1314
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,840
centered around adding more role
play into RPGs. 

1315
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:51,640
They have some really nice 
graphics that their live stream 

1316
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,800
looks really nice. 
It's almost everything Chuck 

1317
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:56,720
does looks really nice so that's
to be expected. 

1318
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:03,920
In March 2025 they did Point of 
Pride which I believe was a 

1319
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:05,400
charity. 
A pride charity. 

1320
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,760
Is that right for trans folk? 
OK, cool. 

1321
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,360
And December 24 and January 2025
they did the Atlanta mission. 

1322
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:14,120
There's a lot of charity stuff. 
They're they're being a 

1323
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,040
supporter of their channel is 
also supporting the mini 

1324
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,360
charitable endeavors that they 
are engaged in. 

1325
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,280
They're at twitch.tv hit points 
not required and you can catch 

1326
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,280
the replays on YouTube at Hit 
points not required. 

1327
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,600
I wanted to also let you all 
know that our friends on 

1328
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,560
Patreon, well those of you who 
support us on Patreon, many of 

1329
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:40,800
you participated in Topics Moot 
2025, where 16 episodes were 

1330
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,440
chosen out of a list of, I don't
know, 100 or so. 

1331
01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:48,840
We had a whole lot of poles, and
typically what we did was we 

1332
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,680
have one pole on Monday and then
another on Wednesday, and the 

1333
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,680
top three finishers from each of
those pole poles would face off 

1334
01:10:55,680 --> 01:11:01,520
on a Friday pole. 
So six different episodes that 

1335
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,280
did that made the finals, would 
then face off and the top three 

1336
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,920
would win. 
So we had 16 episodes chosen and

1337
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:13,400
those are the Winterfell 
murders, meaning, you know, 

1338
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:18,400
Little Walder and Yellow Dick 
and all those killings that 

1339
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,720
happened while the Boltons and 
Frays and Manderlys are there. 

1340
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,560
My champion is fire, which was 
already out. 

1341
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,360
That's the killing of Ricard and
Brandon by Aries. 

1342
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,240
The killing of Kevin, Kevin 
Lannister by varies. 

1343
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:30,640
We've already released that one 
too. 

1344
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,840
The 4th 1 chosen was this one 
Barth Black Sword. 

1345
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:35,400
Yay so we're doing that right 
now. 

1346
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:40,960
Also to come, Benjen Stark, a 
full deep dive on 1st Ranger 

1347
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:46,920
Benjen Stark, Danis the Dreamer,
the Prophet and Targaryen who is

1348
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,920
responsible for them being the 
only dragon rider family to 

1349
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:54,560
survive the doom. 
Dark Star dominated a pole and 

1350
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:59,560
is a gets a deep dive of his own
alongside Danis and Benjen and 

1351
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:03,120
Barth. 
The Brotherhood without Banners 

1352
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,880
gets an episode this year, so 
does House Frey. 

1353
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:09,880
And also shout out to my twitch 
channel twitch.tv History of 

1354
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:14,680
Westeros where we are currently 
playing House Frey and that's a 

1355
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,280
lot of fun. 
It's fun to play a villainous 

1356
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,240
house. 
The 10th episode chosen in 

1357
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:22,680
Topicsmoot was Norse Myth and 
the Long Night. 

1358
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,440
This gets into one of our 
historical deep dives where new 

1359
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:28,760
archaeological evidence and what
I mean by new meaning in the 

1360
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,880
last 10 to 15 years, so pretty 
new as far as archaeology goes, 

1361
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:37,880
purports to tell why so much of 
Norse myth is the way it is. 

1362
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,640
Like how it relates to things 
that were really happening in 

1363
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:42,440
the real world at the time. 
And how that relates to 

1364
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,440
potential theories about the 
long night and volcanic activity

1365
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:50,000
and starvation and the kinds of 
things that societies do when 

1366
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:51,720
things are that bad. 
So it should be really 

1367
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,640
interesting, backed by a lot of 
real world research. 

1368
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:56,600
That one will probably be later 
in the year because, well, it 

1369
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,200
involves a lot of real world 
research that I need to refresh 

1370
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:02,560
myself on and dive deeper into. 
So in other words, things 

1371
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:07,960
outside of A Song of Waste Fire.
A Tale of Three City States is 

1372
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,000
also a historical deep dive. 
It is basically the Game of 

1373
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:16,080
Thrones of ancient Greece. 
Athens, Sparta and Thebes are 

1374
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:19,240
the three city states in 
question here, and I'm a huge 

1375
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,280
fan of that time period and 
studying that time period, being

1376
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:25,600
a fan of it has shown me just 
how much Game of Thrones is in 

1377
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,400
there. 
And y'all I think will enjoy it 

1378
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,080
very much later in the year. 
Pretenders and Imposters is 

1379
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,200
another one that was chosen. 
That is basically the idea of 

1380
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:38,880
people like, well, Fagon or 
people who either are or might 

1381
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,320
be who they purport to be in 
both within the world and 

1382
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,240
outside. 
It's sort of a follow up to the 

1383
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,800
Wars of the Roses episode 
because there are there were 

1384
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,440
pretenders and impostors in the 
wake of the wars of the Roses. 

1385
01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:52,760
So that is where some of where 
George got some of his 

1386
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:54,520
inspiration. 
But of course, it's a a thing 

1387
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:59,920
all over history, there's been 
false claims and the term 

1388
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:04,600
pretender doesn't mean you are 
pretending to be somebody, but 

1389
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,560
it relates to the conceptually. 
So it's confusing. 

1390
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,000
But anyway, that'll be a fun 
episode. 

1391
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:12,560
The prophecies of Patch face was
a very popular choice and that 

1392
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:16,200
will be an episode this year. 
Deep dive into a man who 

1393
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:17,880
drowned. 
That's appropriate. 

1394
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:19,000
Deep dive. 
Yeah. 

1395
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,200
So what's his deal? 
His prophecies are some of the 

1396
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,960
weirdest, and that is fun. 
The ghost of High Heart, another

1397
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,520
prophet. 
Her prophecies are a lot more 

1398
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:34,240
straightforward, but she's not. 
And she might still have a role 

1399
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:35,640
to play, which is interesting as
well. 

1400
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:37,000
Same as Patchface. 
While we're at it. 

1401
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,680
A question of Quaithe, a very A 
Song of Ice and Fire type title.

1402
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,120
And another prophet who we are 
very curious about. 

1403
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,720
And y'all voted more so than 
others. 

1404
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:50,120
And finally, the 16th topic, 
though not necessarily the order

1405
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,200
these will be made. 
Who knows the Song of Ice and 

1406
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:54,920
Fire? 
As in who knows that prophecy in

1407
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,680
world or who did know it? 
Who are different characters 

1408
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,400
throughout the years that have 
been aware of that prophecy? 

1409
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:05,280
And what have they done with it?
All right, let's get back to it 

1410
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:09,920
here. 
Winterfell. 

1411
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:12,400
As we said, Winterfell went from
very stable under Kragen Starks 

1412
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,120
to with his 45 to 60 years and 
three marriages to very 

1413
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:19,000
unstable. 
The North learned a lot from the

1414
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,520
Dance of the Dragons, though it 
didn't suffer a lot of 

1415
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:26,080
casualties to its nobles. 
There were a lot of people 

1416
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:27,960
killed. 
A lot of the Winter's wolves 

1417
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:30,920
died, but these were grizzled 
warriors. 

1418
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,360
Greybeard. 
These weren't like the Founder, 

1419
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:35,920
these aren't like the Lords of 
Houses and Science of Double 

1420
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:37,680
houses. 
These are people who didn't 

1421
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,440
stand to inherit as part of why 
they're out there fighting in 

1422
01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:42,720
the 1st place. 
How Stark didn't suffer any 

1423
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,720
deaths during the dance for 
example. 

1424
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,600
So Craig and helped end the 
dance with the Hour of the Wolf.

1425
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:52,440
Or perhaps his actions did less 
to end it and more to dispense 

1426
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:55,480
justice to those who started it.
That may be more accurate. 

1427
01:15:56,440 --> 01:15:59,000
Either way, the damage was done,
and it's best to make sure that 

1428
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,920
doesn't happen again. 
And he's so familiar with this. 

1429
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:04,320
He had to wrest power from his 
own uncle when he came of age. 

1430
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:09,000
So he's very familiar with 
people usurping Thrones and 

1431
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,000
seats from each other. 
It happened to him. 

1432
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,000
It happened to the Iron Throne. 
Yeah. 

1433
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:14,760
It's a lifetime full of 
experience. 

1434
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:19,120
So he had to see these things 
coming when he made the 

1435
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:22,760
arrangements he did when he 
married his own granddaughter to

1436
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,600
his own son. 
This was very likely to prevent 

1437
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:28,760
outcomes like the ones that he 
lived through. 

1438
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,800
He didn't want to have a dance 
of the direwolves. 

1439
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:34,680
Maybe things looked good to him 
when he died. 

1440
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,240
Maybe he thought, hey, I'm 
leaving things in a good place. 

1441
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:41,040
I I've shored up the family. 
I've prevented a lot of the 

1442
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,320
things that could go wrong. 
He might have died thinking, all

1443
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,520
right, everything's fine. 
But he was wrong because it 

1444
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,720
didn't stay fine. 
It went turns sour very quickly.

1445
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:52,400
And perhaps he did see that. 
Maybe when he died, he was like,

1446
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,200
my work is unfinished. 
I I don't like how I'm leaving 

1447
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,040
things. 
Yeah, George likes that 

1448
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,440
archetype, Nina says, and I 
think I agree with her here. 

1449
01:17:00,440 --> 01:17:02,640
It's a pattern that she's 
noticed, which is that the good 

1450
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,960
man who ultimately fails and 
leaves his land in disarray, 

1451
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:08,520
right? 
He has good intentions, but 

1452
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:09,960
those good intentions don't work
out. 

1453
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,200
It's not necessarily their fault
that they didn't work out, but 

1454
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,480
they didn't work out. 
Jahari's the first good example.

1455
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,040
Egg on the 5th. 
Egg on the unlikely, who we've 

1456
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:19,840
already likened to Barth 
Blacksword here. 

1457
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:21,800
Kraken could be a good example 
of that. 

1458
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,680
Ned's dark to a lesser extent, 
someone like Viserys the First 

1459
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:28,120
who is a wasn't a good king, but
as far as Westeros goes, it's 

1460
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,120
hard to call him a bad man 
compared to other people, you 

1461
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,560
know. 
And so he's a variation on that 

1462
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,560
theme, maybe maybe not quite as 
good of a man, but certainly not

1463
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,560
a villain. 
And things went way worse than 

1464
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:42,960
his intent. 
Let's get some more historical 

1465
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:50,160
context, some more historical 
takes from from Krugen and what 

1466
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:54,480
this set up here. 
Let's get a quote from The World

1467
01:17:54,480 --> 01:17:56,000
of Ice and Fire. 
Here it is. 

1468
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:00,800
After the Dance of the Dragons, 
the Starks were more overtly 

1469
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:03,960
loyal to the Targaryens than 
previously. 

1470
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:09,520
Indeed, Lord Cragenstark's son 
and heir fought beneath the 

1471
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,840
Targaryen banner. 
When the young dragon sought to 

1472
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:18,600
conquer Dorn, Rickenstark fought
bravely, his deeds sometimes 

1473
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:23,640
reported by King Daron in his 
conquest of Dorn, and Rikon's 

1474
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:28,800
death outside of Sun Spear in 
one of the final battles, was 

1475
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:33,280
lamented in the North for years 
to come because of the troubles 

1476
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:36,160
that dogged the reins of his 
half brothers. 

1477
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:40,000
Nina points out a glaring error 
in that quote. 

1478
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:43,440
Instead of dogged the reins of 
half his half brothers. 

1479
01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:45,320
Did you say wolved the reins of 
his half? 

1480
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:46,520
I mean, come on. 
Dire Wolved. 

1481
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:47,640
Yeah. 
Come on, George. 

1482
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,000
Come on. 
Yeah. 

1483
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,280
So as we said before, Rick, and 
had those two daughters, Serena 

1484
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:55,920
and Sansa, and we've discussed 
their marriages and children and

1485
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:00,360
all that, but it reminds me of 
this great one liner from Tywin 

1486
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,000
talking about what's going to 
happen to Sansa. 

1487
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,520
They want to control Sansa and 
they're talking about all the 

1488
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,520
different outcomes. 
And he says, send her north and 

1489
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:11,000
she will be wed to some 
manderlier Umber before the moon

1490
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:12,800
turns. 
There you go. 

1491
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,360
And this brings us back these 
particular marriages, brings us 

1492
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,640
back to an old political 
strategy, one that has been 

1493
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,480
present ever since the founding 
of White Harbor about 1000 years

1494
01:19:21,480 --> 01:19:23,320
ago. 
And the strategy is 1. 

1495
01:19:23,480 --> 01:19:26,240
It's a term that I've coined, 
but I think it's present and 

1496
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,200
very visible. 
So if you have your, if you have

1497
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:31,160
a video feed or you can switch 
it on briefly, Take a look at 

1498
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:33,520
this. 
The strategy is called Box in 

1499
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:37,080
the Dread Fort. 
Make sure Umber and Manderly and

1500
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,880
or car struck are on your side. 
And the Dread Fort is boxed in 

1501
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,520
by the coast and White Harbor 
and Winterfell and those other 

1502
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,160
houses. 
They, they, they are trapped. 

1503
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,280
It's harder for them to do 
anything and they can't reach 

1504
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:48,840
out for alliances. 
It keeps them in check. 

1505
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:53,280
That said, the Dread Fort plays 
little to no role in this story 

1506
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:54,720
at all. 
They were kept in check in this 

1507
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:56,160
area. 
It wasn't their time. 

1508
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,040
Their time was much later when 
Roose Bolton came along. 

1509
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:01,440
But those alliances are still 
very important. 

1510
01:20:01,440 --> 01:20:03,640
That Umber and Manderly are 
still very prominent, and 

1511
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,360
Karstark as well, and they're 
obviously a huge part of this. 

1512
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:14,480
You can see why Kragen wanted to
reduce the branches of House 

1513
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:16,680
Stark to fewer because of what 
we just said. 

1514
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:18,640
Of course, what he lived 
through, seeing the multiple 

1515
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:20,560
branches of House Targaryens 
like, well, we don't want that 

1516
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:23,240
to happen to us either. 
Yeah, we don't have Dragons, but

1517
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,800
war is devastating enough 
without Dragons. 

1518
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:28,720
And we will definitely want to 
avoid that to reduce the number 

1519
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,360
of claimants, to reduce the 
number of factions, you unite 

1520
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:32,880
these factions. 
And that's why we called the 

1521
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:34,520
section the wolf must have one 
head. 

1522
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:38,720
Think of the she Wolves of 
Winterfell as a scenario and why

1523
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,880
it doesn't necessarily make 
sense if things are normal, 

1524
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,760
which is this OK? 
The she remember the setup for 

1525
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,880
the She Wolves of Winterfell 
again, Probably the 5th Duncan 

1526
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:49,680
Egg story. 
Which of course means it's not 

1527
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:52,440
out yet. 
The situation there is that 

1528
01:20:52,440 --> 01:20:55,120
Baron Stark is slowly dying from
a mortal wound he suffered at 

1529
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,720
the hands of the Ironborn, and 
there was a succession crisis 

1530
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,760
where 4 Stark widows were 
pushing their children above 

1531
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:03,240
Baron's eldest son. 
What, how? 

1532
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,640
Why are they pushing their 
succession of Baron's? 

1533
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:07,880
His cause 'cause he was a boy I 
presume. 

1534
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:09,360
That's really the only thing 
that makes sense. 

1535
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,760
His name was Donor. 
Donor Stark. 

1536
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,640
He did end up inheriting. 
The succession crisis resulted 

1537
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:17,440
in the person you would expect 
to inherit did inherit the 

1538
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:20,200
eldest son of the Lord Stark who
just died. 

1539
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,680
But why was it even a question? 
It should, that's unusual. 

1540
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:29,120
Why were they even not 
considering the eldest son of 

1541
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:33,080
the of the Lord of Winterville? 
Because that's how it goes 99.9%

1542
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:35,360
of the time. 
So why was it even a question? 

1543
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,600
Why were somebody else even 
considered for that seat? 

1544
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:42,040
The only reason I can possibly 
come up with is that he was too 

1545
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:45,080
young and it was a time of 
trouble and you need a man in 

1546
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:47,080
charge. 
You need an adult in charge if 

1547
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:54,440
of Winterfell, not a Regent, not
a a mother, a Lord of adult age.

1548
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,480
And that's a reasonable 
argument. 

1549
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:01,840
I think clearly didn't work. 
But the she wolves of Winterfell

1550
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:06,280
tells us the fact that this was 
even a question in in the year 

1551
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:11,360
212 or 213 implies that it very 
may have very well may have been

1552
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,920
a question 40 years prior as 
well in the after the death of 

1553
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,160
Kragen when there was so much 
uncertainty. 

1554
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:21,800
So we don't have to know the 
answers to why it was a 

1555
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,120
question, why it was possible 
for someone other than Don or 

1556
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:28,280
Stark, the heir to Winterfell or
inherit Winterfell. 

1557
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,160
But the fact that it was a 
question is unusual, that we 

1558
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,680
don't have to know why this 
question existed to know that 

1559
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,360
something's up. 
If things were fine, then it 

1560
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:38,600
wouldn't have been a question at
all. 

1561
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:42,440
If things were normal, then Yep,
Don or Stark inherits. 

1562
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,640
Doesn't matter that he's not old
enough yet. 

1563
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:46,720
We'll take care of him until he 
comes of age and then he 

1564
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,240
inherits when he's 16. 
Go forward and prosper. 

1565
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:53,280
That's normal. 
But why are they and instead 

1566
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:57,080
what we have is these unusual 
marriages, these of of with high

1567
01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:03,200
levels of consanguinity and 
threats to remove the legal 

1568
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,920
error based on tradition and 
law. 

1569
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:11,040
So weird stuff happening here. 
I don't I don't quite know what 

1570
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:14,360
the deal is and definitely 
questions, but very interesting 

1571
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:16,280
questions. 
Nina points out, to be fair, 

1572
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:21,560
that the current Alice Karstark 
was pursued for marriage by her 

1573
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,360
own uncle, and she didn't 
complain about that part. 

1574
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,560
She complained about the forcing
of it all, but not the fact that

1575
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,080
it was incestuous. 
So yeah, maybe the North has a 

1576
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:34,440
lesser threshold for incest as 
as we were indicating earlier, 

1577
01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:37,760
this is more examples of that. 
To summarize some of this stuff 

1578
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:41,280
before we move into the actual 
war, and as much of Barth's rain

1579
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:46,600
as we can, which was very short.
We have houses Umber very 

1580
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,360
involved, House manually, very 
involved. 

1581
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,440
Now, why of course, because 
Serena's first marriage was to 

1582
01:23:50,440 --> 01:23:54,360
Lord John, and then her elder 
daughter Arana married azrich 

1583
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:58,000
Umber. 
So that's a seemingly an intent 

1584
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:00,880
from Winterfell to keep the 
Umbers in the fold. 

1585
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:04,160
And that's really important 
because of Skagos is the closest

1586
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:07,480
to umber to Last Hearth. 
So they may have, they may have 

1587
01:24:07,480 --> 01:24:09,840
already been suspicious, may 
have already been worried about 

1588
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,000
what was going to happen with 
this, with this Cummings Kagosi 

1589
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,040
rebellion. 
And these marriages to house 

1590
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:18,680
Umber might have just happened 
anyway because how marriages how

1591
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:21,280
umber happened. 
But it may may have been of 

1592
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,880
prime importance in this era 
because of the potential for 

1593
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,720
rebellion from, from Skagos. 
Or if we're going even farther, 

1594
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,520
if we're taking this theory that
Serena might have been a Cersei 

1595
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:34,760
ish figure, someone passed over 
and bitter about it and not 

1596
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,760
sitting back and taking it, 
trying to push power through her

1597
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:42,240
own male children. 
Well, shoring up an alliance 

1598
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:46,560
with the Umbers on her side, 
having a hand in that, taking 

1599
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:48,120
control of that would be a big 
step. 

1600
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:51,760
So that's pretty important. 
But we also have two Manderly 

1601
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:55,480
Stark marriages in this era, so 
White Harbor was also very 

1602
01:24:55,480 --> 01:24:57,760
implied. 
We have we have Miriam Manderly 

1603
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,680
marrying 1 of Brandon's 
children. 

1604
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:04,080
Both Santa and Serena are 
Manderly daughters through 

1605
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:07,880
through with their Stark father 
umber and Manderly don't get 

1606
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,960
along that well though. 
Do you all remember Clash of 

1607
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:14,040
Kings? 
When Roderick Cassell basically 

1608
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:18,160
had to get a little tough with 
them and they were, they didn't 

1609
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,360
want to work together. 
He's like, y'all can cut some 

1610
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,520
trees down and give them to the 
Manderlys and they'll make some 

1611
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:27,520
ships out of it and that'll be 
really good for King Rob's war 

1612
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:28,560
effort. 
And they're like, I don't want 

1613
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:33,480
to work with the Manderlys. 
They're, you know, lazy and, and

1614
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:36,440
corrupt and all whatever they 
said, you know, fat, you 

1615
01:25:36,440 --> 01:25:39,160
probably called them fat or 
something, but because that's 

1616
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:41,560
what they would do. 
And, and the Umbers and, but, 

1617
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:44,080
but he's like, no, you're going 
to work with them or King Rob 

1618
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:45,440
will hear why. 
And they're like, all right, 

1619
01:25:45,440 --> 01:25:47,400
fine, we'll work with those 
stupid Manderleys. 

1620
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:49,320
And the Manderleys, of course, 
are willing to work with them. 

1621
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:52,640
We do later hear about these 
ships having been built that 

1622
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:58,040
that Wyman Manderley has built a
whole lot of of a whole Navy 

1623
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,480
basically that's just sitting 
there waiting and it's like 

1624
01:26:00,480 --> 01:26:05,440
whoa, ready to unleash this. 
So and that's important because 

1625
01:26:05,440 --> 01:26:07,840
they would have probably needed 
some ships to invade Skagos. 

1626
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:09,360
You need ships and that's 
coming. 

1627
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:12,760
And they may again we brought up
House Royce as a potential 

1628
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:14,560
involved being intentionally 
involved here. 

1629
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,280
Their their naval support may 
have also been involved. 

1630
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:19,200
Maybe maybe some support from 
the sisters. 

1631
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:22,600
I'm very proud House Stark is 
facing a lot of things that they

1632
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,720
were not. 
Here's a comment from Dornish 

1633
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:27,680
Dame. 
I just think of the Walders 

1634
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:29,520
knowing exactly who was ahead of
them in line of succession and 

1635
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,000
who is not. 
Yeah, that's because when you're

1636
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:37,600
a, a, a Walder Frey, you what, 
are you going to memorize all 40

1637
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:39,680
people ahead of you in the exact
order they're in? 

1638
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:42,920
No, probably not. 
You're probably just going to 

1639
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:44,840
know the few in front of you and
the few behind you. 

1640
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,280
That's a good point. 
But I think don't understand the

1641
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,120
point is that probably some 
people in House Stark were very 

1642
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,360
aware when they were all these 
Starks. 

1643
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:55,440
That's a good point. 
Like when there's only a couple 

1644
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:57,480
you could you couldn't not know.
But when there's a lot of 

1645
01:26:57,480 --> 01:26:59,480
Starks, you would you it would 
be detailed. 

1646
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,200
And the fact that you would, 
that most of them would know 

1647
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:03,800
those details in itself is 
telling. 

1648
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:05,560
Yeah, I agree with that. 
That's a great point. 

1649
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:06,960
Yeah. 
Like, I love getting into these 

1650
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:08,720
details. 
Like what are the little things?

1651
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,520
What are the little 
conversations they would have? 

1652
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:13,640
What are the like insurance and 
outs of of this existence? 

1653
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:15,160
Yeah. 
Like imagine you're talking to 

1654
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:18,680
your brother and he like, let 
slip Like, Oh yeah, I'm ninth in

1655
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:21,560
line and you're like. 
You'll have the, the exact count

1656
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:25,560
from, you know, look, that makes
me 8th now. 

1657
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:28,880
Like we're at the funeral. 
Like maybe you don't say that at

1658
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:31,040
the funeral of your, of your 
sister or your brother or 

1659
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:33,080
whatever. 
Like I'm #8 now like, no, I'm 

1660
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:34,680
moving into single digits. 
That was 10th in line. 

1661
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:35,960
No 9th. 
All right. 

1662
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:38,640
Yeah. 
That is the kind of things that 

1663
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,280
happened at a Frey funeral real 
quick. 

1664
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:45,840
The the idea of a name, Bart and
Barth and Black Sword. 

1665
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:47,840
It just reminds me of a couple 
of real world examples. 

1666
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,320
There was a gentleman bandit in 
the 1800s named Black Bart. 

1667
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:54,480
His, his real name was Charles 
Bolton, a Bolton, Hey. 

1668
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:58,560
And he was like, he wouldn't 
curse, you know, even as he was 

1669
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:01,160
like robbing stagecoaches and 
and things like that. 

1670
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:05,440
He he wrote and he would rob, I 
think it was Wells Fargo, I 

1671
01:28:05,440 --> 01:28:09,000
think was his main target. 
I forget. 

1672
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:12,720
Anyway, more famously, there was
a Bartholomew Roberts, a 

1673
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:17,200
Welshman who is the inspiration 
for the Dread Pirate Roberts 

1674
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:20,160
from The Princess Bride, whom 
George has used conceptually as 

1675
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:23,480
the Shrouded Lord, Right. 
Many people have been the Dread 

1676
01:28:23,480 --> 01:28:25,560
Pirate Roberts. 
It's not a it's an identity 

1677
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:27,840
that's passed on from different 
people, different people, just 

1678
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:30,840
like the Shrouded Lord. 
Bartholomew Roberts's nickname 

1679
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,840
was Black Bart. 
So instead of Barth, Black 

1680
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:36,960
Sword, we have Barth, we have 
Black Barth, right? 

1681
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:40,800
Bart. 
The death of Black Bart marked 

1682
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,400
the end of the Golden age of 
Caribbean piracy. 

1683
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:47,600
He was the most successful 
arguably of the Western pirates.

1684
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:53,000
He took over 400 vessels. 
He had an early variant of the 

1685
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,040
skull and crossbones Jolly Roger
flag with a large sword. 

1686
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:59,600
Maybe these are accounts, not, 
you know, not photos. 

1687
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:05,040
He he invented one of the early 
pirate codes and he was killed 

1688
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,360
at age 39 in the year 1722 by 
grapeshot. 

1689
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:09,480
Got him in the neck. 
Unlucky. 

1690
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:11,240
Only three people were killed in
that battle, and he was one of 

1691
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:13,560
them. 
His body was thrown overboard 

1692
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,840
because they didn't. 
The pirates didn't want anyone 

1693
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:21,000
parading his head around. 
They didn't want the law being 

1694
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,240
like, we got him, you know? 
He flung in like Nope, you won't

1695
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:26,440
have that body. 
Anyway, back to our subject, 

1696
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:31,680
Bartheon's inheritance. 
As we said, Jonel and I never 

1697
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:36,080
had children with either of his 
wives, but did he actually name 

1698
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:40,560
his brother Barth as the heir? 
Was he officially the heir or 

1699
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:43,360
just everybody knew he was 
because that's how the law 

1700
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,880
works. 
And the reason we have to ask is

1701
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:48,960
because all sorts of traditions 
and norms were being broken in 

1702
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:52,520
this era. 
Normally would say, well, no, he

1703
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:57,400
was the heir because he was the 
next eldest male in line. 

1704
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:01,560
But we cannot assume that in 
this case, because of all these 

1705
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:03,680
other weird things that were 
happening, all these other 

1706
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:10,720
spikes and unnatural unusual 
behavior, Jonal would have had a

1707
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:12,480
choice. 
If he did name and air, would 

1708
01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:14,200
he? 
He would have had a similar 

1709
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:17,840
perhaps choice to what his 
father Craig and had. 

1710
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:23,720
Should I allow Serena to 
inherit? 

1711
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,120
Should I take the chance of, of 
having a woman inherit? 

1712
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:28,040
And, and maybe that destabilizes
the North. 

1713
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:31,360
Maybe people rebel against 
Winterfell over that. 

1714
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,880
Or maybe it goes well. 
And if it does go well, then 

1715
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:38,120
that opens the door for more 
women to inherit, which 

1716
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:43,240
potentially removes all sorts of
awkward succession crises. 

1717
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:47,480
I mean, I'm absolutely team just
if you're going to do monarchy, 

1718
01:30:47,480 --> 01:30:49,800
go eldest. 
Gender should be irrelevant 

1719
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:53,680
because it was removed so many 
of the confusing situations that

1720
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:57,760
turn into civil wars. 
If it's always the oldest, then 

1721
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:01,040
it's simple. 
So that may have been an 

1722
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:03,560
opportunity, but not one that 
they were actually able to get 

1723
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:07,440
to pass. 
Serena may have been the de 

1724
01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:09,720
facto heir for a while, though, 
which is super interesting. 

1725
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:11,120
And what did the North think of 
that? 

1726
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:13,280
Was there panic? 
Was there up? 

1727
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:15,840
You know, some, maybe some 
people thought it might be a 

1728
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:17,120
good thing. 
They were like, oh, that might 

1729
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:19,680
be good for a change. 
Thinking about the North and 

1730
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:21,880
how, you know, old school they 
are probably not. 

1731
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:24,760
But if it was a time of peace, 
people might have been open to 

1732
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:27,080
it. 
But it was not a time of peace. 

1733
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:30,360
It kind of. 
This brings me to a kind of a 

1734
01:31:30,440 --> 01:31:34,160
weird realization about 
incestuous marriages. 

1735
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:39,880
If it's a little bit incestuous 
at all, the more confusing it 

1736
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:45,720
is, the more incestuous it is. 
What makes things confusing is 

1737
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:49,080
when they don't follow the 
normal lines of when you don't 

1738
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:52,160
marry members of your own 
family, you marry everyone but 

1739
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:55,280
that everyone else is on the 
table except them. 

1740
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:57,160
It's the one place you don't 
marry. 

1741
01:31:57,480 --> 01:31:59,560
When you add that into the mix, 
it's like, well, there's no 

1742
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:04,000
rules at all. 
So again, this brings us back to

1743
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:05,640
Barth. 
Not married at all. 

1744
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,080
Strange. 
Was it because there were enough

1745
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:11,320
Starks around, he just didn't 
feel necessary or didn't feel 

1746
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:15,920
required? 
But then why didn't he get 

1747
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:20,080
married when those other Starks 
weren't around in a time when 

1748
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,440
there were very few Starks? 
So, yeah, that remains a big 

1749
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:25,960
question. 
So coming back to the 

1750
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:30,560
possibility that he was large, a
big man, there's nobody, right? 

1751
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:33,160
Can you think of any other large
people, any other large Starks? 

1752
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:36,360
I just, there's no examples. 
I have none, not a single one. 

1753
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:40,760
King Torin, Brandon the Builder,
Ned, Rickard, Benjen Brandon, 

1754
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,840
any of the other Brandon's, Rob,
John, They're not that big. 

1755
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,840
These are like maybe slightly 
large individuals, but none of 

1756
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:51,000
them are huge, large men In the 
North, again, that's usually 

1757
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:55,440
mormont Umber and Skaggos. 
Skaggos is known for big dudes, 

1758
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:58,600
possibly Giant's Blood or Ebenez
Blood, or both. 

1759
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:01,840
And those things could extend to
house Umber who are probably the

1760
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:06,120
largest mainland northerners. 
Maybe Barth was that rare guy 

1761
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:11,640
who was actually huge. 
And that itself has value as a 

1762
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,440
leader, as an imposing figure. 
If you're a big man, you know, 

1763
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:20,120
in a warrior culture, that might
be something that balanced out 

1764
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,840
what might have been a bad 
personality, right? 

1765
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:26,880
And certainly balanced out lack 
of marriage alliances. 

1766
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:30,760
Like Barth doesn't have in laws 
that are in his corner 'cause he

1767
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:34,960
has no in laws period. 
So that might have created an 

1768
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:37,720
additional bit of instability. 
He's like, well, the Lord of 

1769
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:43,120
Winterfell in this era doesn't 
have any other northern house he

1770
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:46,440
can lean on for extra help, 
whereas that normally is a 

1771
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:48,600
thing. 
Even Ned Stark had the Tullys to

1772
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:52,080
lean on a bit. 
And the list is endless. 

1773
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:55,880
Like his elder brothers had 
Manderly and umber potentially 

1774
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:59,040
on their sides. 
So he doesn't have either of 

1775
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:00,880
those. 
And those are huge things to not

1776
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:04,280
have Manderly and umber like 
Barthegan would have been 

1777
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,720
growing up as a near 
contemporary to Damon Blackfyre 

1778
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:09,200
too. 
We have to consider the impact 

1779
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:12,800
of a LED living legend, a famous
man with kind of a similarish 

1780
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,600
name, Black sword, Black fire. 
I mean, black fire is a black 

1781
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:20,880
sword ice. 
So he may have, even if he's a 

1782
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:23,680
little younger than we thought, 
he might have been inspired by 

1783
01:34:23,680 --> 01:34:25,960
Damon Blackfyre because Damon 
Blackfyre was born in the year 

1784
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:27,800
170. 
Right now, we think Barth was 

1785
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:29,680
born in the mid one, 60s. 
So he would have actually been 

1786
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:33,320
older than Damon Blackfyre. 
But Damon Blackfyre was still 

1787
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:38,640
very much like a man's man, an 
ultimate fighter who had lots of

1788
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,160
children, you know, and was 
Targaryen on both sides. 

1789
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:45,000
So like got all the things going
for him, a lot of things that 

1790
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,480
other men would look up to. 
So yeah, it's kind of hard to 

1791
01:34:48,480 --> 01:34:52,720
miss that similarity with Black 
sword and Black Fire and warrior

1792
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:56,520
cultures and crossovers. 
But again, the, the North wasn't

1793
01:34:56,520 --> 01:34:59,240
involved in the first Black Fire
rebellion, so maybe we need to 

1794
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:00,560
maintain some distance there. 
I don't know. 

1795
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:02,040
It's tricky, right? 
It's very tricky. 

1796
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:05,800
But maybe Bart Blacksword wanted
to go fight in the Black Fire. 

1797
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:07,520
But maybe he did. 
Maybe there were a few Starks 

1798
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:09,680
that fought it, just they didn't
fight in an official capacity. 

1799
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:11,960
But there were a few individuals
that lent their swords to the 

1800
01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:14,760
case, to the 'cause maybe they 
they weren't a lot of soldiers 

1801
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,840
coming down, but a few 
individuals, you know, that's 

1802
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:24,120
something like that. 
Maybe to summarize the state of 

1803
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:27,560
the North that led to this war, 
the lack of stark unification, 

1804
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:30,600
the lack of strong leadership 
and or the lack of strength, 

1805
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:35,800
possible depopulation from other
events was likely all part of 

1806
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:39,280
the contributing, contributing 
factors rather for this 

1807
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:42,040
bloodshed that followed. 
It's unlikely to be just one or 

1808
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:43,240
two events. 
It could be a whole lot of 

1809
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:45,880
things. 
It's very likely because what 

1810
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,080
happened was very unusual. 
A certain savage and mysterious 

1811
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:50,840
island took their shot at 
independence. 

1812
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:54,000
Yes, scaggos tried to become 
independent while Winterfell was

1813
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:59,160
seemingly occupied and or 
weakened, but man, what a thing 

1814
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:02,720
to try to do to defeat 
Winterfell when you're scaggos. 

1815
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:08,440
It was either very bold, very 
stupid, or there were some 

1816
01:36:08,440 --> 01:36:11,640
really major things going on in 
the North that gave them an 

1817
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:14,360
unprecedented opportunity 
because it on paper it seems 

1818
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:17,560
like such doomed failure. 
Again, I'll repeat my point from

1819
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:20,600
the beginning that some 
rebellions just look stupid on 

1820
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:22,720
paper and from the beginning, 
and that's just how it is 

1821
01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:24,280
sometimes, including in the real
world. 

1822
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:27,840
So that's always possible. 
But I don't think that's how 

1823
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,520
George prefers to write it. 
I think he wants to have reasons

1824
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:34,880
and details and break this all 
down, even if he hasn't done so 

1825
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:37,120
yet. 
So that's the result was the 

1826
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:40,440
Skagosi Rebellion. 
Let's talk about that in detail,

1827
01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:46,200
starting off with a quote. 
Skagos has often been a source 

1828
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:50,520
of trouble for the Starks, both 
as kings when they sought to 

1829
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:55,080
conquer it, and as Lords when 
they fought to keep its fealty. 

1830
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:59,640
Indeed, as recently as the reign
of King Daron the Second 

1831
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:05,520
Targaryen, Daron the Good, the 
Isle rose up against the Lord of

1832
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:10,520
Winterfell, A rebellion that 
lasted years and claimed the 

1833
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:15,360
lives of thousands of others, 
including that of Barth against 

1834
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:20,720
Stark, Lord of Winterfell, 
called Barth Blacksword, before 

1835
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:25,720
finally being put down. 
Hey, spoiler alert, What are you

1836
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:27,880
doing though? 
Yeah, just kidding. 

1837
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:30,520
Keep in the back of your mind 
what this means for T. 

1838
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:31,520
Wow. 
We'll come back to that in a 

1839
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:34,840
minute, because you were going 
to see Skagos and this 

1840
01:37:35,440 --> 01:37:41,440
engagement, this war, this 
rebellion is some of the only 

1841
01:37:41,480 --> 01:37:48,080
things we know about Skagos. 
They in the north is well known 

1842
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:50,720
and we've seen it, that the 
mountain clans, the hill tribes 

1843
01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:55,920
are very loyal to the Starks. 
The Skagos see are not. 

1844
01:37:56,480 --> 01:38:00,640
They are mountainous and they 
are clannish, but they are not 

1845
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:04,680
invested in how Stark like the 
other mountain clans are. 

1846
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:10,040
So can we even count on them? 
Can Davos expect to go there, 

1847
01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:13,320
get Ricken and maybe even a 
small army and come back with 

1848
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:15,120
that? 
Or will it go badly? 

1849
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:17,040
Will he have to rescue Ricken 
from them? 

1850
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:20,920
Is this like the way the umber 
plot went on TV where they 

1851
01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:23,800
actually were the betrayers? 
Are the Skagosi the betrayers in

1852
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:26,480
the book version of this? 
I don't really want to bring up 

1853
01:38:26,480 --> 01:38:30,880
the show too much, but every 
once in awhile you know it comes

1854
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:34,000
up. 
So if so, that could be how 

1855
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:35,880
Ricken is killed. 
I really don't think Davos dies 

1856
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,640
there, but maybe Ricken dies and
that's who's responsible, or at 

1857
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:42,000
least is there when it happens. 
Maybe they're not responsible, 

1858
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:44,880
but they're part of the 
engagement. 

1859
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:47,280
Maybe they're even on his side 
and he's killed anyway or 

1860
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:48,920
whatever. 
That's really quite serious 

1861
01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:52,520
though, isn't it? 
We talked about how Winterfell 

1862
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:55,800
has been so dominant for so 
long, yet it took them years to 

1863
01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:58,240
defeat Skagos and thousands of 
lives. 

1864
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:00,320
OK. 
And of course, the Lord of 

1865
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:01,840
Winterfell, our subject, Black 
Bart. 

1866
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:04,920
What the heck? 
That's wild. 

1867
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:08,200
I mean, so it proves what I was 
saying earlier that this Gagosi 

1868
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:10,600
had a good read on the 
situation. 

1869
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:13,840
It wasn't good enough. 
They failed ultimately, but they

1870
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:16,880
weren't stupid in thinking that 
they had a chance. 

1871
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:20,240
I don't think because it looks 
like they maybe could have won 

1872
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,080
this. 
They might have been able to 

1873
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:25,400
draw out a stalemate. 
And in the long run, I suppose 

1874
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:26,800
there's almost no way they could
have held out. 

1875
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:31,960
But the fact that they did this,
well, it really says a lot 

1876
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,760
because Winterfell should have 
been able to, in most 

1877
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:36,760
circumstances, I think, shut it 
down a lot quicker. 

1878
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:41,040
But that's not what happened. 
Now, if someone told me that 

1879
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:45,320
only 10,000 people lived on 
Skagos, I would believe it. 

1880
01:39:45,320 --> 01:39:46,560
I'd be like, yeah, that sounds 
about right. 

1881
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,000
I could see it being less. 
Like if someone gave me that as 

1882
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,320
an over under, we'd say, are 
there more or less than 10,000 

1883
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:53,040
people on Skagos? 
I'd be like, that's tough. 

1884
01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:55,160
I could easily see it being 
less. 

1885
01:39:55,440 --> 01:39:57,080
I could see it being more. 
I don't I wouldn't think it's a 

1886
01:39:57,080 --> 01:39:58,840
lot more. 
So when you say thousands of 

1887
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,520
people died in this war, I'm 
like, well, they're I bet most 

1888
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:04,320
of them were not Skagosi. 
I bet this. 

1889
01:40:04,480 --> 01:40:08,960
It was just it's really hard to 
invade their island and they 

1890
01:40:08,960 --> 01:40:11,800
have such a strong home field 
advantage. 

1891
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,600
That's a sports term that 
implies that your fans are on 

1892
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:17,720
your side. 
The the very terrain is on your 

1893
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:18,840
side. 
It's like Dorn. 

1894
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,000
Skagos is like the Dorn of the 
North. 

1895
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:24,120
Where? 
Invading armies have a hell of a

1896
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:27,400
time with the terrain and the 
the people and the raids and the

1897
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:31,000
ambushes and the the weather. 
I mean, you got tough ass 

1898
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:35,480
northerners going up there going
whoa, this is more northern than

1899
01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:37,800
I've ever seen. 
This is more northern than I 

1900
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:42,040
thought the north could be. 
Skagos is like a microcosm of 

1901
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:44,800
like a time capsule of what the 
whole N used to be like. 

1902
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:47,360
In some ways. 
It's, it's a, it's a land that 

1903
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:50,040
time forgot. 
And there's another factor that 

1904
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:53,120
makes the rebellion odd in the 
1st place, which is that George 

1905
01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:58,160
has straight up said that 
Winterfell rules them, but 

1906
01:40:58,160 --> 01:41:00,840
nominally they're left alone. 
They just kind of get ignored 

1907
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:02,080
and they just do their own 
thing. 

1908
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:06,640
So they're risking a lot to be 
free when they're pretty much 

1909
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:08,920
free already. 
Like the Lord of Winterfell 

1910
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:11,560
isn't out here demanding lots of
troops and money from them, 

1911
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:15,240
mostly just demanding like 
fealty and don't raid the 

1912
01:41:15,240 --> 01:41:16,760
shoreline. 
They're mostly demanding that 

1913
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:18,840
you not be violent towards 
everybody else. 

1914
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:21,080
That's really what their 
loyalty, the extent of their 

1915
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:24,480
loyalty is required for. 
It's like, yeah, you know what, 

1916
01:41:24,480 --> 01:41:26,560
You all do your own thing. 
Just don't attack every anybody 

1917
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,680
else, you know, just leave 
everybody else alone. 

1918
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:30,840
But they didn't even do that. 
They didn't even, they're not 

1919
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:32,600
even OK with that. 
So they must have been, again, 

1920
01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:34,720
this, this really shows they 
must have been really confident 

1921
01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:38,280
or really pissed off or some 
combination of the above, 

1922
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:41,440
because that status quo for them
was pretty good. 

1923
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:45,200
And they still risked everything
to for what looks like a slight 

1924
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:49,560
improvement, you know, at best. 
But they're also kind of a 

1925
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:51,360
backwater. 
George has called them that too.

1926
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:54,840
So they might be ignorant about 
how strong the rest of the North

1927
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:57,480
is. 
They might be really fired up 

1928
01:41:57,480 --> 01:42:00,040
about notions of honor and 
independence, and it might mean 

1929
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:04,440
a lot to them. 
If so, why was this the only 

1930
01:42:04,440 --> 01:42:10,400
time that they ever rebelled 
that we know of and and in fact,

1931
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:13,200
we have a pretty good sense. 
It is the only rebellion of 

1932
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:17,040
significance that ever came from
Sky Goes because, well, it's 

1933
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,360
mentioned in context and there 
was no mention of any other ones

1934
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:23,200
in the World of Ice and Fire. 
Now they and they haven't been 

1935
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:25,080
independent in probably 1000 
years or more. 

1936
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:30,920
It's probably a different king, 
like a Brandon the 9th is the 

1937
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:33,640
one who banned them from using 
the sea because they were 

1938
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:36,200
Raiders and they would they 
would do the false light stuff 

1939
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,280
that the sistermen do. 
And so they're basically like a 

1940
01:42:38,280 --> 01:42:42,560
combination of the Ironborn and 
the Sistermen, but bigger and 

1941
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:46,400
hairier so that you can see why 
that would be a problem, 

1942
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:48,440
something that needed to be 
handled or kept, kept under 

1943
01:42:48,440 --> 01:42:50,280
control. 
But they had, it's not like, 

1944
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:52,520
hey, we need to go back to the 
old times when we were 

1945
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,240
independent, you know, a few 
generations ago. 

1946
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:59,200
No, this is a long distant pass.
It's not like the old way where 

1947
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:02,560
they're bringing something 
relatively recent in their 

1948
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:04,000
history back into the fold. 
Now we're talking about 

1949
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:05,640
something that's been gone for 
centuries. 

1950
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:10,040
So the more you dig into the 
external details of this, the 

1951
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:13,880
surrounding details, the more 
unusual it seems, which is 

1952
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:17,120
fascinating to me. 
Let's also take a quick look or 

1953
01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:19,800
or slash reminder of what kind 
of people we're dealing with, 

1954
01:43:19,800 --> 01:43:22,320
because I keep saying they're 
more northern, more. 

1955
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,280
It's a microcosm of the ancient 
N, but it's not quite that 

1956
01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:27,320
simple. 
There's maybe a cultural and 

1957
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:30,680
ethnic divide here as well. 
The Skagosi are pretty fearsome 

1958
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:31,880
people. 
Let's let's put it that way. 

1959
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:34,120
Here it is from the World of Ice
and Fire quote. 

1960
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:38,680
The Skagosi who reside there are
little regarded by the other 

1961
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:42,720
Northmen, who consider them 
little better than Wild Wings 

1962
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:47,040
and name them Skaggs. 
The Skagosi call themselves the 

1963
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:52,320
Stone Born, referring to the 
fact that Skagos means stone in 

1964
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:57,320
the Old Tongue. 
A huge, hairy, foul smelling 

1965
01:43:57,320 --> 01:43:59,720
folk. 
Some maesters believed the 

1966
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:03,720
Skagosi to have a strong 
admixture of Ebony's blood. 

1967
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:09,040
Others suggest that they may be 
descended from giants, clad and 

1968
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:13,880
skins and furs and untanned 
hides, and said to ride on 

1969
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:17,200
unicorns. 
The Skagosi are the subject of 

1970
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:21,160
many a dark rumor. 
It is claimed that they still 

1971
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:26,160
offer human sacrifice to their 
weirwoods, lure passing ships to

1972
01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:31,320
destruction with false lights, 
and feed upon the flesh of men 

1973
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:34,280
during winter. 
Left out that last part when I 

1974
01:44:34,280 --> 01:44:37,000
was sitting there. 
Like ironborn mixed with sister 

1975
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,520
men because of the the false 
lights and the raiding. 

1976
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,040
But they also are cannibals, so 
yeah. 

1977
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:46,680
So. 
You can see that's not all the 

1978
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:49,160
North is like that. 
I mean, some of the North used 

1979
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:52,280
to be like that, but most of the
North didn't lure passing ships 

1980
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:55,280
to destruction. 
Most of them aren't descended 

1981
01:44:55,280 --> 01:44:58,280
from the Ibanez, and some of 
them might be descended from 

1982
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:00,760
giants. 
But yeah, the clad in skins and 

1983
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:02,280
furs, that's more like the free 
folk. 

1984
01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:06,920
That's, you know, that that's a 
bridge to the ancient north of a

1985
01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:09,120
different type. 
So yeah, it's pretty they're 

1986
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:12,280
they're different. 
The cultural ethnic divide was 

1987
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:13,840
significant. 
And of course, there's that 

1988
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:16,840
isolation, right? 
They're on their own island in 

1989
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:20,160
the far north. 
Not a lot of ships going back 

1990
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:22,840
and forth between them and other
places. 

1991
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:27,200
Most of the trading that Scugosi
do is them leaving to trade and 

1992
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,000
come back. 
You know, people don't really 

1993
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:31,840
stop there to trade. 
There's no ports, the reputation

1994
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:33,120
is bad, people don't want to go 
there. 

1995
01:45:33,120 --> 01:45:34,400
There's not much money to be 
made there. 

1996
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:38,200
When Davos was coming up as a 
smuggler, his his first, the 

1997
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:40,600
first captain he worked under 
was willing to do some really 

1998
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:42,680
daring things. 
He went to trade with the Free 

1999
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:46,040
Folk, which got him killed. 
He was beheaded for trading with

2000
01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:47,360
trading weapons to the Free 
Folk. 

2001
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:49,920
He wasn't afraid of taking that 
chance, though. 

2002
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:53,040
He was willing to do that. 
It was he thought that the 

2003
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:57,840
rewards of training with the 
Free Folk were worth the risk of

2004
01:45:58,160 --> 01:45:59,360
running a foul of the Night's 
Watch. 

2005
01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:02,760
He did not take that risk for 
Skagos. 

2006
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:06,760
Davos says even this guy, his 
nickname was the Blind Bastard, 

2007
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:11,920
was Afraid of Skagos. 
And in that quote, the maesters 

2008
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:15,560
aren't exactly kind in their 
writing about them. 

2009
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:17,560
A huge, hairy, foul smelling 
folk. 

2010
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,400
Yeah, OK. 
Is that a good thing for 

2011
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,960
peaceful relations if the rest 
of the North is looking down on 

2012
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:31,120
them like throwbacks, like low 
tech bumpkins, you know, as as 

2013
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:34,320
yokels or whatever, Like that's 
not good for peaceful relations 

2014
01:46:34,320 --> 01:46:36,680
when everyone looks down on you.
So that might be part of the mix

2015
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:39,960
here. 
The being looked down on is not 

2016
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:45,880
not good for for peace. 
And again, we go back to the sea

2017
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:48,080
power thing. 
Maybe they wanted to re 

2018
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:49,480
establish themselves as a sea 
power. 

2019
01:46:49,480 --> 01:46:52,520
It was Brandon the 9th that 
banned them from doing that and 

2020
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:57,080
and kept them from rating. 
Well, yeah, they might want to 

2021
01:46:57,080 --> 01:46:58,280
return to that. 
This might be the point. 

2022
01:46:58,280 --> 01:47:01,440
They're might like, yeah, again,
the whole point of fealty to 

2023
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:03,960
Winterfell isn't what they give 
to Winterfell. 

2024
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:08,400
It's what they don't do in terms
of inflicting violence on the 

2025
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:10,760
mainland. 
So that might be a big part of 

2026
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:12,040
the motivation. 
They're like, Hey, we want to 

2027
01:47:12,120 --> 01:47:15,000
have ships and go back to 
raiding and and be who we were. 

2028
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:18,000
We want to cut out our own 
destiny. 

2029
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:20,680
We want to carve out our own 
lives and not be subject to 

2030
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:22,640
Winterfell, even though it's 
risky, even though we already 

2031
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:25,040
get to mostly self govern, we 
want all of it. 

2032
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:28,680
We want it all for ourselves. 
Now, who would they be raiding 

2033
01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:32,360
if they were raiding with with 
ships that they may or may not 

2034
01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:34,800
have any more? 
And and you got to think that 

2035
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:38,400
this ban can't be absolutely. 
You can't both not pay close 

2036
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:42,680
attention to Skagos and enforce 
this total ban of of shipping, 

2037
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:44,760
right? 
There's probably some ships that

2038
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:48,560
they just, you know, keep quiet 
about that. 

2039
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:51,680
And when they were in their 
raiding days, they would be 

2040
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:54,080
raiding the Umbers and the car 
starts because that's who's 

2041
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:58,040
close by. 
That's they don't have fancy 

2042
01:47:58,040 --> 01:48:00,040
sailing vessels. 
They can't go sail all the way 

2043
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:02,040
halfway around the world or all 
the way to Essos or something to

2044
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:03,480
go raiding. 
No, they can only hit what's 

2045
01:48:03,480 --> 01:48:06,400
close by. 
So again, more echoes of 

2046
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:09,200
Ironborn and Sisterman here. 
More of that now. 

2047
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:13,520
They were probably never expert 
sailors like those folk, but 

2048
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:16,680
whatever sailing skill they did 
have would be lost because 

2049
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:18,760
they've been at least two 
centuries. 

2050
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:22,280
Probably a lot more since the 
Starks had them bend the knee. 

2051
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:24,480
Probably more like 1000 years, 
like I said. 

2052
01:48:26,240 --> 01:48:31,320
So put all that together, you've
got a very isolated people who 

2053
01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:34,400
don't have a lot of back and 
forth with the mainland, which 

2054
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:37,280
is why they're isolated, which 
which keeps them in a state of 

2055
01:48:37,280 --> 01:48:39,960
being backwards because they're 
not brought forward by traffic 

2056
01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:41,400
and commerce with the rest of 
the realm. 

2057
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:43,960
They're looked down on. 
There's that cultural ethnic 

2058
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:49,800
divide enforcing some of this. 
And consider that this was also 

2059
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:52,600
an era where Dorn was recently 
incorporated into the Kingdom 

2060
01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:55,400
with, after many years of 
fighting, the main independence.

2061
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:59,600
And as I've already compared 
Doran to Skagos in terms of how 

2062
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:04,160
difficult it is to invade and 
and tame, were they looking at 

2063
01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:06,880
themselves as similarly, say, 
hey, if Doran is independent or 

2064
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:08,760
if they can have their 
independence, shouldn't we have 

2065
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:11,640
ours? 
You know, we're, we're not even 

2066
01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:13,600
on the same continent. 
You know, we have an island 

2067
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:16,200
separating us. 
Why shouldn't we be independent?

2068
01:49:16,200 --> 01:49:18,680
You can see the arguments there.
Even if they are wise arguments,

2069
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:22,760
you can see them. 
Surely they didn't just send a 

2070
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:27,360
letter right when the war began,
they didn't just say, hey, we're

2071
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:32,240
independent now, deal with it. 
It almost certainly started with

2072
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:37,400
violence. 
A sneak attack on house Umber or

2073
01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:40,000
Karstark, or maybe Manderly or 
or both. 

2074
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:41,720
Probably Umber or Karstark 
because they're the closest. 

2075
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:43,520
Maybe both. 
Again, I think that seems most 

2076
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:45,600
likely. 
Do as much damage as you can 

2077
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:47,520
before they know you're doing 
damage. 

2078
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:51,120
If you're going to strike at a 
greater foe, you need to hit 

2079
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:55,160
them while they're weak. 
And the element of surprise 

2080
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:58,440
would have been on the Skagosi's
side for a little bit. 

2081
01:49:59,000 --> 01:50:02,800
So that early first few weeks or
months or whatever would have 

2082
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:06,240
been about accomplishing as much
as possible and preparing for 

2083
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:10,200
the inevitable kickback, the 
inevitable N getting its act 

2084
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:13,680
together and say, hey, what the 
hell are you doing, you 

2085
01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:18,280
rebellious Skagos Stonebourne, 
you Unicorn riding jerks. 

2086
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:21,880
It would be slow for them to 
gather all that together. 

2087
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:27,040
They'd have to form an army, get
some ships to be able to even 

2088
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:31,320
land on Skagos, get a battle 
plan together, you know, figure 

2089
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:36,120
out things like who's in charge,
who's second in command, the 

2090
01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:38,840
things that Rob had to deal with
when he was marching S to deal 

2091
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:42,200
with Tywin. 
Just the petty things that Lords

2092
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:43,640
fight over. 
You know? 

2093
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:48,360
Like no, I'm my guys March 1st 
or my guys March here or no I I 

2094
01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:52,000
get the place of honor. 
Just pet petty BS that nobles 

2095
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:55,120
argue over that that someone 
like Barth Blacksword would have

2096
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:59,760
to manage. 
And what we can glean from 

2097
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:01,480
everything we've said in this 
episode is it was probably a 

2098
01:51:01,480 --> 01:51:05,960
very difficult job for Barth 
Blacksword because there was so 

2099
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,520
much factionalism from what we 
can tell in this era. 

2100
01:51:08,920 --> 01:51:12,280
And when there's a lot of 
factionalism, these things 

2101
01:51:12,280 --> 01:51:14,680
really come to a head because 
they, no one wants these, the 

2102
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:18,960
other faction to get even the 
slightest advantage or honor or 

2103
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:21,600
notice or anything that they're 
not getting. 

2104
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:23,640
You know, it's like, oh, 
everything is like, we can't let

2105
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:25,480
them get an inch on us. 
We have to, if they get one, we 

2106
01:51:25,480 --> 01:51:29,160
get, we have to get 2. 
You know, I just, it's very 

2107
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:30,240
tense. 
It's very difficult. 

2108
01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:32,800
It's one of the things where you
can't please everyone, but you 

2109
01:51:32,800 --> 01:51:35,480
need them. 
You know, Winterfell by itself 

2110
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:37,920
clearly wasn't strong enough to 
do these things alone. 

2111
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:39,920
They needed their allies. 
They needed the rest of the 

2112
01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:43,360
North. 
So what would they, what would 

2113
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:47,720
this look like for the Skagosi? 
Probably burning ships, probably

2114
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:51,640
burning, destroying the things 
that would be a problem for them

2115
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,400
later in the war. 
Ships are going to be what 

2116
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:56,400
invades them later, so they want
to maybe destroy whatever ships 

2117
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:59,080
they can to make that effort 
more difficult. 

2118
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:05,760
Maybe hostages, maybe capturing 
some other nobles, something 

2119
01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:07,800
like that. 
That might keep a house or two 

2120
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:10,320
on the sidelines. 
Like, Yep, we're not, we're not 

2121
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:13,800
going to war with you. 
Sorry, Lord Barth, they have my 

2122
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:16,240
son captive. 
I can't take that risk, you 

2123
01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:18,600
know, Go rescue my son, please. 
And then I'll give you some 

2124
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:21,480
money, but I can't send my 
troops now or they'll kill my 

2125
01:52:21,480 --> 01:52:24,520
son. 
So you can see there's a lot of 

2126
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:27,280
things they could pull off. 
Raiding, sneak attacks, 

2127
01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:31,920
hostages, destroying military 
gear, destroying food. 

2128
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:33,640
Like what if it was about to be 
winter? 

2129
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:36,600
That would be a very interesting
timing if they timed their 

2130
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:40,280
rebellion right around winter 
when landing ships on Skaggos 

2131
01:52:40,280 --> 01:52:42,040
would be just hellish and 
nightmarish and nearly 

2132
01:52:42,040 --> 01:52:45,640
impossible. 
It's already really hard to land

2133
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:47,040
ships there. 
All they have to do is defend 

2134
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:50,280
the very few places where you 
can land a ship and just heavily

2135
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:53,280
defend those areas. 
And the the Starks could just 

2136
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:58,760
throw manpower at it and just be
like trying to invade the veil 

2137
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:00,920
through the bloody gate. 
It would be extremely difficult 

2138
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:06,160
bloody business. 
That would be hellish for the 

2139
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:10,440
soldiers involved. 
So that's I think what it would 

2140
01:53:10,440 --> 01:53:13,160
look like the beginning. 
A lot of quick attacks, a lot of

2141
01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:15,640
quick strikes, a lot of maybe 
hoping to keep sidelining some 

2142
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:18,760
of the houses and doing 
everything they could to give 

2143
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:21,960
themselves a lot of leeway. 
A lot of time. 

2144
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:23,520
And winter may have been part of
that. 

2145
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:27,200
Like if winter strikes and N is 
weak and that gives us years 

2146
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:29,960
potentially to re establish 
ourselves as independent. 

2147
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:35,000
And then after that they get to 
rely on Skagos itself being so 

2148
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:38,280
difficult, like the mountains 
and the terrain and the lack of 

2149
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:40,760
food. 
And just imagine how hard it 

2150
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:44,120
would be to go inland and Skagos
and expect to be able to forage 

2151
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:50,680
and you're subject to ambushes 
and strange noises at night and 

2152
01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:53,400
you don't want to get separated 
from the rest of the again. 

2153
01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:55,440
This is why I keep comparing it 
to Dorn, because that's what it 

2154
01:53:55,440 --> 01:53:57,080
would have been like for the 
invaders. 

2155
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:00,680
Northern invaders going to Dorn.
Of course, everyone's northern, 

2156
01:54:00,720 --> 01:54:04,960
but from the perspective of the 
Dornish conditions, they weren't

2157
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:08,720
used to just hard to sleep 
animals you've never seen 

2158
01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:10,840
before. 
Instead of the extreme heat, you

2159
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:13,680
have the extreme cold. 
And it's extremely cold even for

2160
01:54:13,680 --> 01:54:15,320
northerners who are used to the 
north. 

2161
01:54:15,320 --> 01:54:17,920
I mean, it's farther north and 
it, and if it's, and if my guess

2162
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:21,640
about winter is right, then it 
would be as bad as it ever gets.

2163
01:54:22,200 --> 01:54:24,160
It might have been the coldest 
some of these men had ever 

2164
01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:29,760
experienced. 
So, yeah, as far as landing, oh,

2165
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:32,040
God, it would be. 
Let me go back to that briefly. 

2166
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:35,800
You also have horrible storms 
and choppy water constantly 

2167
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:38,480
outside Skagos. 
It's impossible nearly to land 

2168
01:54:38,480 --> 01:54:40,760
ships when that's being 
contested. 

2169
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:44,480
It's difficult to land ships 
when they want you to come. 

2170
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:47,800
But when they're trying to stop 
you, they can be shooting 

2171
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:50,440
arrows. 
They can be doing cavalry 

2172
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:52,600
charges with their Unicorn 
riders. 

2173
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:58,360
They can just barricades can be 
built on the shore with, you 

2174
01:54:58,360 --> 01:55:02,400
know, wooden spikes and sticks 
and all rocks. 

2175
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:05,160
They can drop rocks into the 
harbor, make it really difficult

2176
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:07,360
to land ships, tear out the 
hulls, things like that. 

2177
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:12,600
There's so many things that they
can use to make it really hard 

2178
01:55:12,600 --> 01:55:16,240
for the Starks to invade them. 
And who's going to be really 

2179
01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:18,360
enthusiastic about this? 
Like, yeah, let's go get them. 

2180
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:20,600
I don't know, maybe the Umbers, 
because that's just how they 

2181
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:23,360
are. 
But the Stoneborn are downright 

2182
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:24,960
frightening. 
What did we say before about 

2183
01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:29,960
them being huge and hairy and 
the this is a true survival of 

2184
01:55:29,960 --> 01:55:32,920
the fittest environment that 
these men live in on Skagos. 

2185
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:36,480
Like the weak people don't live 
here, weak people die. 

2186
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:37,960
And it's like you're doing that 
for. 

2187
01:55:38,000 --> 01:55:39,560
Like what? 
What ganging? 

2188
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:41,640
What do you, what prize do you 
get for that? 

2189
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:43,640
Yeah, nothing. 
Yeah. 

2190
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:46,440
Well, I guess you could say I I 
defeated the Skagosi. 

2191
01:55:46,440 --> 01:55:49,000
That's some people would be like
to add those yokels, like no, 

2192
01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:52,200
they're freaking giants, man. 
They're hairy beasts with 

2193
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:53,320
Unicorn. 
Like it's hard. 

2194
01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:57,800
This is a it's a time capsule. 
I said it already, but this is a

2195
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:02,040
place with like no Andol blood. 
Like no Andols have ever made it

2196
01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:04,000
to Skagos. 
They barely made it to the 

2197
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:07,920
north. 
So yeah, they would look down on

2198
01:56:07,920 --> 01:56:09,680
the north in their own way, like
you all are. 

2199
01:56:10,080 --> 01:56:12,120
You all are polluted with those 
Andols. 

2200
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:14,960
So let's go back to the question
of Unicorn cavalry. 

2201
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:16,560
Why do we actually know this 
exists? 

2202
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:19,280
Why is it not just a rumor? 
Why is it not just a thing? 

2203
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:22,080
How do we know for sure that 
Unicorn cavalry is a thing? 

2204
01:56:22,120 --> 01:56:24,720
Let's let's go through the 
evidence, starting with Exhibit 

2205
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:28,480
A quote. 
It is also said that those 

2206
01:56:28,480 --> 01:56:33,320
seafarers brave enough to trade 
on Skagos have glimpsed the 

2207
01:56:33,320 --> 01:56:37,720
Stoneborn Lords riding great 
shaggy horned beasts. 

2208
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:42,720
Monstrous mount so sure footed, 
they have been known to climb 

2209
01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:46,600
the sides of mountains. 
A living example of such a 

2210
01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:52,120
creature, or even a skeleton, 
has long been sought for study, 

2211
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,000
but none has ever been brought 
to Old Town I. 

2212
01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:58,280
Could see why you might think 
that quote actually suggests the

2213
01:56:58,280 --> 01:57:01,280
opposite, that it said it kind 
of disproves the existence of 

2214
01:57:01,280 --> 01:57:04,200
the Unicorn riders because of 
the lack of evidence. 

2215
01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:06,680
A skeleton or certainly a living
specimen. 

2216
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:10,400
But actually it is a curious 
mystery why they had, why there 

2217
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:12,760
hasn't been a skeleton. 
Because we know for a fact that 

2218
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:15,480
the answer is not because they 
don't exist. 

2219
01:57:15,480 --> 01:57:20,400
We do know they exist because of
Exhibit B John A Dance with 

2220
01:57:20,400 --> 01:57:24,040
Dragons one. 
The white wolf raced through a 

2221
01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:28,600
black wood beneath A pale Cliff 
as tall as the sky. 

2222
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:33,800
The moon ran with him, slipping 
through a tangle of bare 

2223
01:57:33,800 --> 01:57:37,360
branches. 
Overhead, across the starry sky.

2224
01:57:37,800 --> 01:57:43,200
Snow, the moon murmured. 
The wolf made no answer. 

2225
01:57:43,680 --> 01:57:48,160
Snow crunched beneath his paws. 
The winds sighed. 

2226
01:57:48,160 --> 01:57:52,920
Through the trees far off, he 
could hear his packmates calling

2227
01:57:52,920 --> 01:57:57,400
to him, like to, like they were 
hunting, too. 

2228
01:57:58,200 --> 01:58:03,200
A wild rain lashed down upon his
black brother as he tore at the 

2229
01:58:03,200 --> 01:58:07,920
flesh of an enormous goat, 
washing the blood from his side 

2230
01:58:08,120 --> 01:58:10,880
where the goat's Longhorn had 
raked him. 

2231
01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:13,080
You. 
Can pretty easy tell that's a 

2232
01:58:13,080 --> 01:58:16,680
ghost because of the snow and 
the white wolf and the fact that

2233
01:58:16,680 --> 01:58:19,560
he's running along the pale 
Cliff as tall as the sky, which 

2234
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:22,640
is the wall. 
There's other evidence too, but 

2235
01:58:22,640 --> 01:58:23,880
I don't need to sell you on 
that. 

2236
01:58:24,200 --> 01:58:28,360
The part that matters, of course
here is the black brother 

2237
01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:31,400
tearing at the flesh of an 
enormous goat, washing the blood

2238
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:33,280
for his side. 
Where from his side where the 

2239
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:35,800
goats? 
Longhorn horn, singular, 

2240
01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:40,480
singular goat. 
We already think goat when you 

2241
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:43,440
hear of being so sure footed. 
They can walk up the side of a 

2242
01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:44,560
mountain. 
So yes, they're probably not 

2243
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:46,720
unicorns. 
They're probably 1 horned goats.

2244
01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:48,520
Same thing. 
I mean, you can call that a 

2245
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:51,240
Unicorn if you want. 
Unicorn just kind of means one 

2246
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:54,720
horn. 
So, so snow in that voice there,

2247
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:56,520
that's the Raven trying to wake 
him. 

2248
01:58:56,520 --> 01:58:58,560
Mormont's Raven. 
And then so the moon's kind of a

2249
01:58:58,560 --> 01:59:02,520
neat symbol there. 
We know Rickons on Skagos, 

2250
01:59:02,960 --> 01:59:04,520
though we don't know. 
We don't actually. 

2251
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:06,440
George is being tricky here 
because when you first read that

2252
01:59:06,440 --> 01:59:08,200
chapter, you don't know Rickons 
on Skagos. 

2253
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:10,040
You find that out way later in 
the book. 

2254
01:59:10,280 --> 01:59:13,840
So on reread or if you listen to
podcasts like this or whatever, 

2255
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:16,600
you find out that Rickons on 
Skagos. 

2256
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:21,440
So that black brother shaggy dog
tearing at the flesh of an 

2257
01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:24,120
enormous goat is on Skagos with 
one horn. 

2258
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:26,720
Yeah, that goat with one horn. 
So that's pretty definitive. 

2259
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:30,800
Carl Carr Snark says unicorns 
were real. 

2260
01:59:31,120 --> 01:59:33,680
They're actually just angora 
sheep whose horn buds are 

2261
01:59:33,680 --> 01:59:36,440
surgically rotated such that the
horns grow and twist into one 

2262
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:38,720
horn. 
Circuses used to have them, too.

2263
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:41,440
There's medieval manuscripts 
that depict depict them clearly,

2264
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:44,440
and they have Billy goat beards,
cloven feet and a shaggy coat. 

2265
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:46,480
They were put into flocks of 
real sheep to protect them from 

2266
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:47,560
predators. 
And it worked well. 

2267
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:52,960
Today I learned. 
They also said really neat 

2268
01:59:53,040 --> 01:59:57,720
cornice is Latin for horn. 
Unicorn slash Unicorn, Yes. 

2269
01:59:57,880 --> 01:59:59,320
Nice. 
All right, Well, that makes 

2270
01:59:59,320 --> 01:59:59,680
sense. 
Yeah. 

2271
01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:00,880
Like something like a. 
Yeah. 

2272
02:00:00,880 --> 02:00:03,840
Horns are organic, So. 
And anything like that can be 

2273
02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:05,520
shaped. 
You can turn it and twist it, 

2274
02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:07,880
and that fits. 
That's neat. 

2275
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:08,880
How about that? 
Thanks, Carl. 

2276
02:00:08,880 --> 02:00:11,000
Car snark. 
Figures we'd learn that from a 

2277
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:14,760
car snark. 
They would know a lot about 

2278
02:00:14,760 --> 02:00:17,800
Skagos. 
So the early stage of this war 

2279
02:00:17,800 --> 02:00:21,800
would probably be the landing. 
The Skags would do everything 

2280
02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:26,080
they could to stop it, and the 
Starks would be as. 

2281
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:29,000
Dead set on achieving it. 
Once they have some sort of 

2282
02:00:29,000 --> 02:00:32,600
beach head, once they are landed
and defended and can hold a 

2283
02:00:32,600 --> 02:00:36,240
spot, then they can continue to 
bring ships to that spot and 

2284
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,000
continue to bring more men and 
food and supplies. 

2285
02:00:39,120 --> 02:00:42,960
If they don't have a place on 
the mainland, they can't 

2286
02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:47,560
establish any sort of base, They
can't have a safe place to bring

2287
02:00:47,560 --> 02:00:50,560
more men and troops in. 
So it's vital to the war effort 

2288
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:52,600
either way. 
It's both vital for the Skags to

2289
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:54,640
stop it and for the Starks to 
achieve it. 

2290
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:58,680
Let's recall that there are 
three noble houses on Skagos, 

2291
02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:04,480
Crowell Stain and Magnar Stain, 
STANE, not like, you know, blood

2292
02:01:04,480 --> 02:01:06,080
stain, but kind of makes you 
think of that. 

2293
02:01:07,440 --> 02:01:11,320
These would likely be the houses
at the forefront of the defense.

2294
02:01:11,920 --> 02:01:16,760
I can imagine there being, you 
know, three safe landing spots 

2295
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:19,440
for ships around the southern 
edge of Skagos. 

2296
02:01:19,440 --> 02:01:22,320
And each of these noble houses 
took charge of one of them. 

2297
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:24,840
And I can imagine that these 
houses are located near these 

2298
02:01:24,840 --> 02:01:27,520
safe anchorages because it would
be one of the things that you 

2299
02:01:27,520 --> 02:01:30,880
would want to build a castle or 
a keep near in the 1st place, 

2300
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:35,280
because that's a, a source of 
power within the natural 

2301
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:36,520
environment. 
You know, a place where ships 

2302
02:01:36,520 --> 02:01:38,760
can land is something you would 
want to control as a Lord. 

2303
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:41,200
That's, that's where taxes come 
through and trade goods. 

2304
02:01:41,200 --> 02:01:43,400
And that's where the power is, 
right? 

2305
02:01:43,400 --> 02:01:46,480
You build a castle in a place 
where it's going to achieve more

2306
02:01:46,480 --> 02:01:48,720
power, where it defends things 
that have value, whether it's 

2307
02:01:48,720 --> 02:01:52,600
farmland, rivers, ports, 
etcetera. 

2308
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:55,040
So I can kind of imagine that's 
like that. 

2309
02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:57,520
Now, of course, it's not a a 
seafarer. 

2310
02:01:57,520 --> 02:01:59,840
They're not a seafaring race 
overall or people. 

2311
02:01:59,840 --> 02:02:03,120
So maybe some of these castles 
are pretty far inland, which if 

2312
02:02:03,400 --> 02:02:07,080
if which if true, makes it all 
the more difficult for the 

2313
02:02:07,080 --> 02:02:10,160
Starks to achieve conquest, 
especially if they're high up in

2314
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:14,360
the mountains, which is likely. 
Just picture this, let me go all

2315
02:02:14,360 --> 02:02:17,760
Dan Carlin on y'all and try to 
imagine what it's like for a 

2316
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:22,040
rank and file soldier recruited 
into a northern levee to go to 

2317
02:02:22,040 --> 02:02:23,760
Skagos and fight the 
Stonebourne. 

2318
02:02:25,000 --> 02:02:27,120
Imagine you're on some ship 
trying to land. 

2319
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:30,720
Picture it breed like hard home,
the ships and the the fleeing of

2320
02:02:30,720 --> 02:02:34,080
hard home and getting out of 
there during those storms and 

2321
02:02:34,080 --> 02:02:35,320
the others. 
Picture that. 

2322
02:02:35,320 --> 02:02:37,640
But you're going towards it 
instead of fleeing from it. 

2323
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:41,600
Instead of the undead, you have 
the Skagosi, which, yeah, to be 

2324
02:02:41,600 --> 02:02:44,160
fair, that's one of the few ways
I can make the Skagosi seem less

2325
02:02:44,360 --> 02:02:46,200
fearsome is to compare them to 
the undead. 

2326
02:02:47,400 --> 02:02:49,400
But it's still pretty darn 
scary, right? 

2327
02:02:49,400 --> 02:02:52,480
You, you're fighting all those 
weather conditions and these 

2328
02:02:52,480 --> 02:02:55,880
horrifying opponents. 
So there would be crashing and 

2329
02:02:55,880 --> 02:03:01,760
yelling, bitter cold, wind and 
waves, rain or snow, maybe both.

2330
02:03:02,480 --> 02:03:05,320
You would be very cold. 
There's mortal danger here 

2331
02:03:05,320 --> 02:03:08,880
without considering the enemy. 
The weather alone can kill you, 

2332
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:12,280
the terrain can kill you, 
slipping on the rocks, the 

2333
02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:15,920
there's probably shadow cats and
other dangerous animals. 

2334
02:03:15,920 --> 02:03:20,720
This is a not just a survival of
the fittest region for humans, 

2335
02:03:20,720 --> 02:03:24,400
it's a survival of the fittest 
region period. 

2336
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:30,960
And these are animals that 
survive in this hellish, cold 

2337
02:03:30,960 --> 02:03:33,800
region. 
They are strong, tough and don't

2338
02:03:33,800 --> 02:03:37,920
get regular meals. 
So there would be some familiar 

2339
02:03:37,920 --> 02:03:40,520
elements, perhaps heart trees. 
But even these would be 

2340
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:43,240
different. 
The heart trees might be carved 

2341
02:03:43,240 --> 02:03:45,240
differently. 
The faces might have unfamiliar 

2342
02:03:45,240 --> 02:03:48,800
expressions, more horrifying, 
more terrifying, more ancient. 

2343
02:03:49,040 --> 02:03:52,400
Maybe some mixed feelings, maybe
less than mixed. 

2344
02:03:52,400 --> 02:03:57,080
If you're a White Harbor man and
you still worship the Seven, you

2345
02:03:57,080 --> 02:04:01,240
might be thinking, has anyone of
Andahl blood ever set foot on 

2346
02:04:01,240 --> 02:04:03,400
these shores with violence in 
mind? 

2347
02:04:03,400 --> 02:04:05,400
Maybe some traders have, but 
that's about it. 

2348
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:09,440
But Andahl's landing on Skagos 
on Skagos with the intent to 

2349
02:04:09,600 --> 02:04:12,000
help conquer it might be 
unprecedented. 

2350
02:04:12,080 --> 02:04:14,720
Not the kind of thing you want 
to be thinking about, but these 

2351
02:04:14,720 --> 02:04:18,000
are kind of intrusive thoughts 
that might be coming as you are 

2352
02:04:19,640 --> 02:04:24,880
exiting that ship, heading 
towards your uncertain fate, but

2353
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:26,360
you might not have a lot of 
confidence in. 

2354
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:32,160
To get deep into Skagos, to get 
to their control centers, their 

2355
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:35,440
power, where the authority lies,
the house, the seats, the the 

2356
02:04:35,440 --> 02:04:39,720
keeps. 
You have to penetrate deep into 

2357
02:04:40,360 --> 02:04:44,320
this extremely difficult 
landscape that has no food. 

2358
02:04:44,560 --> 02:04:47,600
You have to bring your own food,
which means more ships, which 

2359
02:04:47,600 --> 02:04:52,240
means supply lines, which means 
warriors spread thin because 

2360
02:04:52,720 --> 02:04:54,280
that's what the Skagosi will try
to do. 

2361
02:04:54,280 --> 02:04:55,480
They will try to hit those 
supply lines. 

2362
02:04:55,480 --> 02:04:58,840
They will try to kill your food 
bringers, kill your hunters, 

2363
02:04:58,840 --> 02:05:03,880
kill the guy, kill the people 
who aren't actively engaged in 

2364
02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:07,800
fighting, hit them when they're 
not looking, guerrilla raid 

2365
02:05:07,800 --> 02:05:10,840
style. 
Again, doesn't this really sound

2366
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:12,920
like Dorn? 
Those of y'all who listen to our

2367
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:15,240
Conquest with Dorn episodes, and
when I tried to put it from the 

2368
02:05:15,240 --> 02:05:18,600
perspective of the Northern, 
like nights from the Stormlands 

2369
02:05:18,600 --> 02:05:23,360
or from the Reach and just how 
alien and horrific this land 

2370
02:05:23,360 --> 02:05:28,280
was, they might have gone in 
with bravado and then realized 

2371
02:05:28,280 --> 02:05:29,840
it was hellish and like, what 
are we getting into? 

2372
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:31,640
I don't think that would have 
been the case for this for the 

2373
02:05:31,640 --> 02:05:33,240
Northerners. 
I think the Northerners have a 

2374
02:05:33,240 --> 02:05:35,160
better idea of what they were 
getting into and they knew it 

2375
02:05:35,160 --> 02:05:38,400
was going to be terrible. 
Escagos's reputation is a little

2376
02:05:38,400 --> 02:05:41,480
maybe more closely linked to the
rest of the North, and Dorn's 

2377
02:05:41,480 --> 02:05:44,000
separation from the rest of the 
Seven Kingdoms is larger. 

2378
02:05:44,360 --> 02:05:48,440
Those Red Mountains are a lot 
larger than a lot larger of a 

2379
02:05:48,440 --> 02:05:52,160
geographical barrier than the 
the Bay of Seals or the Bay of 

2380
02:05:52,160 --> 02:05:53,640
Ice, Whichever one it is, I 
forget. 

2381
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:56,960
So yeah, even hardened 
northerners could be overmatched

2382
02:05:56,960 --> 02:06:00,200
by Skagos, I think and, and, and
anyone can be overmatched by 

2383
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:01,680
starvation, right? 
Can. 

2384
02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:03,400
I tell you how funny it is for 
you to say that when you could 

2385
02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:05,960
literally look to your to your 
over your shoulder. 

2386
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:08,400
Oh, yeah, it's right here. 
Yeah, it's on the. 

2387
02:06:08,400 --> 02:06:09,960
Other side. 
See, I don't even look in the 

2388
02:06:09,960 --> 02:06:11,320
right place. 
Seals. 

2389
02:06:11,320 --> 02:06:14,120
Yeah, it's the Bay of Seals. 
Yeah, we got the bite here. 

2390
02:06:14,120 --> 02:06:15,680
And the Bay of Seals up here, 
which was the Bay of. 

2391
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:16,640
Oh, yeah. 
The Bay of Ice is the way. 

2392
02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:18,280
Is the western the Bay of Seals 
at the eastern one. 

2393
02:06:18,280 --> 02:06:19,520
Yeah. 
Cool. 

2394
02:06:19,520 --> 02:06:20,800
All right. 
Good call, Shay. 

2395
02:06:20,800 --> 02:06:22,880
And shout out to Michael 
Clarfeld for those great maps. 

2396
02:06:25,240 --> 02:06:29,480
The other most scarier thing 
about the Skagos as compared 

2397
02:06:29,480 --> 02:06:31,560
when we're comparing it to Dorn,
is the Dornish won't eat you, 

2398
02:06:33,960 --> 02:06:36,080
right? 
They won't eat you afterwards. 

2399
02:06:36,360 --> 02:06:38,480
And because we hear two things 
about this. 

2400
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:40,880
One is like they we hear that 
they're just regular cannibals, 

2401
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:42,600
that they sometimes resort to 
cannibals when it gets really 

2402
02:06:42,600 --> 02:06:44,800
cold, but they also eat the 
hearts and livers of their 

2403
02:06:44,800 --> 02:06:47,560
defeated enemies. 
They're very grim warrior 

2404
02:06:47,560 --> 02:06:52,080
culture kind of thing. 
If you know that about your 

2405
02:06:52,080 --> 02:06:55,360
enemy, if you know that's what 
they do to you, would you allow 

2406
02:06:55,360 --> 02:06:57,680
yourself to be captured? 
Would you take your own life if 

2407
02:06:57,680 --> 02:07:00,280
they were closing in around you 
and you knew their intent was to

2408
02:07:00,280 --> 02:07:01,920
try to take you captive and eat 
you? 

2409
02:07:02,760 --> 02:07:04,920
I think I would kill myself. 
I don't think I would allow that

2410
02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:07,200
to happen, especially if I was a
warrior that that was, you know,

2411
02:07:08,440 --> 02:07:12,360
tough enough to do that sort of 
thing to be like, yes, I'm, I'm 

2412
02:07:12,360 --> 02:07:14,560
strong enough. 
I'm a strong enough of mine to 

2413
02:07:14,760 --> 02:07:18,440
realize that I'm going to die 
and I my only and I would rather

2414
02:07:18,440 --> 02:07:22,600
die painlessly then roasted over
some fire. 

2415
02:07:22,600 --> 02:07:26,600
You know, I mean sacrifice of 
their heart trees, you know, is 

2416
02:07:26,600 --> 02:07:27,720
there a. 
Reason you think they're doing 

2417
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:30,480
it alive? 
No, but you might be worried 

2418
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:32,520
about that. 
You don't know. 

2419
02:07:32,520 --> 02:07:35,160
You're like, yeah, maybe they 
chop a piece off and eat that, 

2420
02:07:35,160 --> 02:07:38,520
save the rest for later, you 
know, slow, like, do vargo 

2421
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:40,840
haute, you know, kind of thing 
where they, like, leave him 

2422
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:42,560
alive. 
The meat stays fresh. 

2423
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:45,520
You know, like, I think your 
imagination could get pretty 

2424
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:47,960
wild there when you're thinking 
it's all about to end. 

2425
02:07:47,960 --> 02:07:52,160
So yeah, I think yeah, you just 
don't want to face that. 

2426
02:07:52,160 --> 02:07:54,840
You don't want to be sacrificed 
to a heart tree or eaten or any 

2427
02:07:54,840 --> 02:07:56,960
of those things you like. 
I'm jumping, I'm jumping into 

2428
02:07:56,960 --> 02:07:58,160
the sea. 
I don't want them to eat me at 

2429
02:07:58,160 --> 02:07:59,920
all. 
Just let me go. 

2430
02:08:01,240 --> 02:08:03,080
Can we get another perspective 
on this Gagosi? 

2431
02:08:03,080 --> 02:08:06,240
From none other than Sam Tarly 
quote. 

2432
02:08:06,520 --> 02:08:10,040
They lived in caves and grim 
mountain fastnesses. 

2433
02:08:10,040 --> 02:08:14,600
Sam had read and rode great 
shaggy unicorns to war. 

2434
02:08:15,120 --> 02:08:18,160
Skagos meant stone in the Old 
Tongue. 

2435
02:08:18,600 --> 02:08:22,600
The Skagosi named themselves the
Stoneborn, but their fellow 

2436
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:25,800
Northmen called them Skaggs and 
liked them little. 

2437
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:30,440
Only 100 years ago, Skaggos had 
risen in rebellion. 

2438
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:34,960
Their revolt had taken years to 
quell and claimed the life of 

2439
02:08:34,960 --> 02:08:39,040
the Lord of Winterfell and 
hundreds of his sworn swords. 

2440
02:08:40,000 --> 02:08:42,280
Similar but different 
information than we got before. 

2441
02:08:42,280 --> 02:08:44,280
The earlier quote said thousands
of lives total. 

2442
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:46,080
This was hundreds of sworn 
swords. 

2443
02:08:46,280 --> 02:08:50,520
It's just as telling. 
So these are warriors, not, you 

2444
02:08:50,520 --> 02:08:52,480
know, villagers or things like 
that. 

2445
02:08:52,480 --> 02:08:56,400
Would we assume there were 
casualties like that as well? 

2446
02:08:56,400 --> 02:08:59,840
But I think it was mostly armies
clashing or soldiers clashing, 

2447
02:08:59,840 --> 02:09:03,200
Warriors clashing. 
Hundreds of sworn swords. 

2448
02:09:03,200 --> 02:09:05,560
That's a lot, right? 
I mean, Winterfell's entire 

2449
02:09:05,560 --> 02:09:08,840
complement of sworn swords is 
probably in the hundreds. 

2450
02:09:08,840 --> 02:09:10,720
Like you don't have. 
They don't carry standing armies

2451
02:09:10,720 --> 02:09:12,280
around. 
Like this is not a feudal 

2452
02:09:12,280 --> 02:09:13,600
system. 
Doesn't know how it works. 

2453
02:09:13,920 --> 02:09:17,080
When people aren't fighting, 
they're tending to land for the 

2454
02:09:17,080 --> 02:09:21,000
most part, with some exceptions,
only the higher nobles 

2455
02:09:21,000 --> 02:09:23,520
generally. 
So that's a really big deal. 

2456
02:09:23,560 --> 02:09:28,480
With years of this war lasting, 
you can imagine that there were 

2457
02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:31,320
attempts to invade Skagos that 
then failed, and then they had 

2458
02:09:31,320 --> 02:09:34,120
to try again. 
And then once the day had a 

2459
02:09:34,120 --> 02:09:38,400
successful landing, it took a 
really long time to penetrate 

2460
02:09:38,400 --> 02:09:43,400
deep inland and defeat this 
Gagosi in their own keeps and 

2461
02:09:43,400 --> 02:09:46,000
and to bring them to heel. 
And because it doesn't sound 

2462
02:09:46,000 --> 02:09:48,240
like they would be very willing,
even like the Dornish, like you 

2463
02:09:48,240 --> 02:09:51,840
beat them and then they just 
bend the knee and say psych 

2464
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:54,640
we're we didn't actually bend 
the knee. 

2465
02:09:54,640 --> 02:09:57,480
We just pretended we came out of
our caves and hit you in the 

2466
02:09:57,520 --> 02:10:02,760
stabbed you in the back. 
So the death of Barth Blacksword

2467
02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:06,280
in battle also tells you not 
only that wow, the Skaggs were 

2468
02:10:06,280 --> 02:10:08,600
successful. 
They must have won several 

2469
02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:12,920
battles for this, for the war to
have lasted as long as it did, 

2470
02:10:13,200 --> 02:10:17,960
for the lives that it were lost 
to have been accounted for. 

2471
02:10:19,960 --> 02:10:22,520
They would also have just been 
all the more motivated after 

2472
02:10:22,520 --> 02:10:26,120
this. 
Like, wow, we just lost the Lord

2473
02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:31,960
of Winterfell in a war that 
started because we look weak. 

2474
02:10:33,800 --> 02:10:37,480
This makes us look weaker. 
Damn it, This is the opposite. 

2475
02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:42,360
We, if we beat the Skagosi 
handily, it would shut down the 

2476
02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:46,040
notion that we are weak. 
But the Lord of Winterfell just 

2477
02:10:46,040 --> 02:10:48,640
died in the war. 
That sends the opposite message.

2478
02:10:48,640 --> 02:10:51,680
So it kind of tells me that 
they're going to try even 

2479
02:10:51,680 --> 02:10:54,040
harder, They're going to punish 
the Skagosi even harder to 

2480
02:10:54,040 --> 02:10:56,360
prove, hey, we're not weak, 
right? 

2481
02:10:56,560 --> 02:11:01,000
That's when you can't overcome 
your enemies through strength. 

2482
02:11:01,320 --> 02:11:04,680
You punish them afterwards. 
You punish the ones who can't 

2483
02:11:04,680 --> 02:11:06,720
fight back as a show of 
strength. 

2484
02:11:07,560 --> 02:11:10,440
That's all, too. 
It's all too common in this 

2485
02:11:10,440 --> 02:11:13,520
world and other worlds, real 
worlds. 

2486
02:11:14,600 --> 02:11:16,080
It's just a it's it's a 
deterrent. 

2487
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:18,520
You say, Look, yeah, this was 
really hard for us to shut down.

2488
02:11:18,520 --> 02:11:20,520
But we did win. 
And we're going to punish the 

2489
02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:22,800
hell out of the survivors to 
keep you from doing it again. 

2490
02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:24,240
We're going to make sure you 
remember that. 

2491
02:11:25,360 --> 02:11:28,800
I do think they would have been 
very vicious to this Gagosi 

2492
02:11:28,800 --> 02:11:31,480
after the death of Barth, if 
they weren't already, because 

2493
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:34,800
you got to look strong in the 
face of the death of the Lord of

2494
02:11:34,800 --> 02:11:37,240
Winterfell, and the only way to 
look strong in a war is by 

2495
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:41,360
killing and winning. 
You have to make examples. 

2496
02:11:41,360 --> 02:11:44,120
You got to probably parade some 
heads on Pikes. 

2497
02:11:45,200 --> 02:11:51,240
The Lords of Crowl and Stain and
Magnar might have to be put on 

2498
02:11:51,240 --> 02:11:56,240
the gates of Winterfell to 
remind people, to prove that the

2499
02:11:56,240 --> 02:12:01,120
Skagosi were defeated, that this
is the price you pay for 

2500
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:05,360
rejecting Winterfell's rule. 
There would have been other 

2501
02:12:05,360 --> 02:12:07,920
Starks with him, right? 
What would would his younger 

2502
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:10,120
brother Brandon, Would he have 
been fighting along at his side,

2503
02:12:10,120 --> 02:12:12,240
or would he have stayed back to 
make sure there's a Stark in 

2504
02:12:12,240 --> 02:12:13,960
Winterfell? 
Well, it wouldn't have to be 

2505
02:12:13,960 --> 02:12:15,120
Brandon, because there's other 
Starks. 

2506
02:12:15,400 --> 02:12:18,480
We've got Serena and Edrick's 
kids. 

2507
02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:20,960
We've got Kriegard, Torin, 
right? 

2508
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:22,040
Those are the two older 
brothers. 

2509
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:28,120
We've got Lonel Snow, Brandon's 
bastard's son and Brandon's 

2510
02:12:28,120 --> 02:12:30,360
trueborn children, Rodwell and 
Baron. 

2511
02:12:30,360 --> 02:12:32,920
Baron may have cut his teeth 
against the Skaggs before 

2512
02:12:32,920 --> 02:12:35,400
fighting against the Ironborn, 
right? 

2513
02:12:35,400 --> 02:12:37,200
Or maybe he was too young. 
We're not sure. 

2514
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:41,240
The, again, the ages are all 
over the place in terms of 

2515
02:12:41,240 --> 02:12:46,000
possibilities here, but it's 
unlikely that Barth Blacksword 

2516
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:50,840
was the only start to fight in 
this war, and thus it may have 

2517
02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:53,160
been a case of Brandon being 
right there when his brother 

2518
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:56,600
fell and just battlefield 
promotion to Lord of Winterfell.

2519
02:12:56,600 --> 02:12:59,160
All of a sudden, just, well, 
there's an arrow in my brother's

2520
02:12:59,160 --> 02:13:03,920
throat or a Unicorn horn in his 
chest, Pick up ice. 

2521
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:08,520
OK, I can't wield this, but pick
it up and keep going, right? 

2522
02:13:08,680 --> 02:13:10,840
Something like that. 
And just picture that, though, 

2523
02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:16,000
this tall, imposing Stark 
fighting with a great sword 

2524
02:13:16,000 --> 02:13:19,720
surrounded by his sworn swords, 
Unicorn horns flashing. 

2525
02:13:19,720 --> 02:13:21,760
And I don't know that Barth 
would be on a horse 'cause 

2526
02:13:22,280 --> 02:13:24,720
they're having to land from the 
sea. 

2527
02:13:24,720 --> 02:13:26,720
I don't know if they brought 
horses even with them. 

2528
02:13:26,720 --> 02:13:29,000
I don't know if that's was part 
of their battle plan or not. 

2529
02:13:29,920 --> 02:13:34,040
Either way, imagine him out 
front whipping that sword around

2530
02:13:34,160 --> 02:13:35,440
many people. 
We ought to see it, especially 

2531
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:37,560
if he was a big guy, that sword 
going up and down and all of a 

2532
02:13:37,560 --> 02:13:40,560
sudden it just doesn't come back
up again and it falls and stays 

2533
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:42,680
down. 
And that's a grim feeling if 

2534
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:45,760
you're being, if you're the 
following the Lord of Winterfell

2535
02:13:45,760 --> 02:13:47,840
into battle and all of a sudden 
he's gone. 

2536
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:53,080
Uh oh. 
You know, it may have been one 

2537
02:13:53,080 --> 02:13:57,200
of his entire armies might have 
been wiped out at the same time.

2538
02:13:57,200 --> 02:14:00,720
It might have been like a oops, 
like I said earlier, an arrow to

2539
02:14:00,720 --> 02:14:03,640
the throat or just an accidental
kind of thing, or may have been 

2540
02:14:03,640 --> 02:14:05,880
an ambush Overwhelming. 
There's a lot of ways this guy 

2541
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:09,600
could have died. 
You know, it's just like the 

2542
02:14:09,600 --> 02:14:11,600
list of ways to die in war is 
immense. 

2543
02:14:11,640 --> 02:14:14,640
You know, he could have drowned 
trying to get off the ship 

2544
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:16,600
there. 
And or since we're talking about

2545
02:14:16,600 --> 02:14:19,680
Dorne, maybe they agreed to a 
parlay and then cheated. 

2546
02:14:19,680 --> 02:14:22,280
And we're like, we're not, this 
isn't a parlay. 

2547
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:24,320
We're going to ambush you. 
You know, something like that. 

2548
02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:27,280
Besides other potential Starks, 
there would have been the 

2549
02:14:27,280 --> 02:14:29,720
Cassells, you know, Jory 
Cassell, Martin Cassell, people 

2550
02:14:29,720 --> 02:14:33,480
who that house has been loyal to
the Starks for countless 

2551
02:14:33,480 --> 02:14:37,800
generations. 
Any Cassells capable of fighting

2552
02:14:37,800 --> 02:14:41,000
would have been there at Barth's
side, and they might have seen 

2553
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:45,160
it as a great dishonor that he 
fell while they were with him. 

2554
02:14:45,320 --> 02:14:47,640
They may have died at his side. 
Like I said, it may have been, 

2555
02:14:47,640 --> 02:14:49,920
they may have died with him. 
It may have been like a dare on 

2556
02:14:49,920 --> 02:14:52,760
the the young dragon where at 
the parlay or not. 

2557
02:14:53,240 --> 02:14:57,800
His Kingsguard were slain for 
the most part -1 who was 

2558
02:14:57,800 --> 02:14:59,600
captured? 
Eamon was definitely captured. 

2559
02:14:59,600 --> 02:15:00,760
I think one other one 
surrendered. 

2560
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:03,640
But regardless, same. 
The point stands either way, 

2561
02:15:04,160 --> 02:15:06,600
that there's a lot of ways for 
him to fall. 

2562
02:15:06,600 --> 02:15:09,560
And no matter which one of them 
it is, it's very embarrassing 

2563
02:15:09,560 --> 02:15:11,000
for the North. 
It's very embarrassing for his 

2564
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:12,480
sworn swords. 
It's very embarrassing for how 

2565
02:15:12,480 --> 02:15:14,400
Stark. 
It's just embarrassing. 

2566
02:15:14,600 --> 02:15:18,640
It looks weak. 
Maybe he fell trying to take one

2567
02:15:18,640 --> 02:15:22,800
of the major seats deep down 
Driftwood Hall or King's House. 

2568
02:15:22,800 --> 02:15:26,280
Those are the three seats of 
Crowell, Stain and Magnar. 

2569
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:30,280
I don't think they're grandstone
fortresses, but they could be 

2570
02:15:30,280 --> 02:15:32,000
built into the side of a 
mountain. 

2571
02:15:32,000 --> 02:15:34,200
You know, they might have caves 
they might be connected to. 

2572
02:15:34,200 --> 02:15:37,160
They might be difficult despite 
not having modern technology. 

2573
02:15:37,880 --> 02:15:40,120
And they would certainly be 
fought bitterly over. 

2574
02:15:40,120 --> 02:15:41,920
They would certainly not. 
They'd certainly be held by an 

2575
02:15:41,920 --> 02:15:45,240
opponent that was that knew they
couldn't couldn't expect to win 

2576
02:15:45,240 --> 02:15:46,880
quarter. 
This was an all or nothing kind 

2577
02:15:46,880 --> 02:15:49,680
of engagement, especially after 
the death of Barth Blacksword, I

2578
02:15:49,680 --> 02:15:55,560
think. 
So after his death, whatever the

2579
02:15:55,560 --> 02:15:57,720
circumstances were, Brandon took
over. 

2580
02:15:58,080 --> 02:16:01,360
And as I said, all current 
Starks descend and descend from 

2581
02:16:01,360 --> 02:16:05,520
this Brandon. 
So unless Barth died during like

2582
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:09,000
the final battle, or you know, 
something that was really close 

2583
02:16:09,000 --> 02:16:12,600
to the end of the war, it would 
have have to be Brandon that 

2584
02:16:13,320 --> 02:16:15,720
carried the flag to the end and 
finished the war off. 

2585
02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:17,720
Unless his vassals did it for 
him. 

2586
02:16:17,720 --> 02:16:20,280
You never know, Maybe this 
Brandon just wasn't a a war guy.

2587
02:16:20,840 --> 02:16:24,440
But either way, I repeat that 
there would have been extra 

2588
02:16:24,440 --> 02:16:29,720
pressure to win decisively to 
show that this isn't worth it to

2589
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:31,680
anyone else. 
No one else should be thinking 

2590
02:16:31,680 --> 02:16:34,160
rebellion because look, you 
failed. 

2591
02:16:34,160 --> 02:16:36,320
Yeah, you got close, but you 
failed. 

2592
02:16:36,719 --> 02:16:40,400
That lesson would not be learned
by the Ironborn and by Raymond 

2593
02:16:40,400 --> 02:16:44,200
Redbeard. 
Indeed, this remains, as we said

2594
02:16:44,200 --> 02:16:51,240
at the beginning, the start of a
lot of uprisings and problems in

2595
02:16:51,240 --> 02:16:54,000
the North. 
Remember as well that I said 

2596
02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:57,559
Brandon didn't last very long 
after Barth, nor did his eldest 

2597
02:16:57,559 --> 02:16:59,959
Rodwell. 
Either of them could have died 

2598
02:16:59,959 --> 02:17:05,160
to the great Spring Sickness, 
which was in 209, and that could

2599
02:17:05,160 --> 02:17:08,160
have been a a factor in reducing
the overall population of the 

2600
02:17:08,160 --> 02:17:10,080
North as well. 
That could have made them weaker

2601
02:17:10,559 --> 02:17:13,240
that you first you lose to this,
first you lose thousands of men 

2602
02:17:13,240 --> 02:17:15,680
in the Skagosi rebellion, then 
the great spring sickness 

2603
02:17:15,680 --> 02:17:20,160
happens, then Dagan Greyjoy's 
Ironborn come, and then you have

2604
02:17:21,520 --> 02:17:23,200
the she Wolves of Winterfell 
incidents. 

2605
02:17:23,200 --> 02:17:25,520
So yeah. 
And then you have the Battle of 

2606
02:17:25,520 --> 02:17:27,520
Long Lake at 2:26 with Raymond 
Redbeard. 

2607
02:17:27,520 --> 02:17:34,040
So the North was probably very 
low population, given all these 

2608
02:17:34,040 --> 02:17:42,080
things that happened outro. 
Watch out, Davos, as little as 

2609
02:17:42,080 --> 02:17:44,840
we know about Skagos, what we do
know is a combination of 

2610
02:17:44,840 --> 02:17:48,240
exciting and terrifying. 
It remains, like we said, a bit 

2611
02:17:48,240 --> 02:17:51,200
of a time capsule, but it's a 
time capsule to a fascinating, 

2612
02:17:51,440 --> 02:17:55,000
interesting time. 
The North, the old N, the 

2613
02:17:55,000 --> 02:18:00,879
ancient N, isolated and northern
by nature, and I do mean nature,

2614
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:05,120
it has a mystical and dangerous 
quality to it, and perhaps extra

2615
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:07,360
dangerous to a Southerner. 
And consider that we are going 

2616
02:18:07,360 --> 02:18:08,920
to see it through the eyes of a 
southerner. 

2617
02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:14,680
Our POV in Skagos is going to be
Davos, Not, you know, not 

2618
02:18:14,680 --> 02:18:18,400
Ricken, not John or someone else
in the North. 

2619
02:18:20,200 --> 02:18:23,440
Something that's a device we've 
seen George use in the 

2620
02:18:23,440 --> 02:18:27,719
beginning. 
Catelyn was our first insight 

2621
02:18:27,719 --> 02:18:30,400
into a lot of the strangeness of
the North, because she's not 

2622
02:18:30,400 --> 02:18:33,120
from there. 
All the strangeness from Bran's 

2623
02:18:33,120 --> 02:18:35,840
eyes, from Ned's eyes, from 
John, it's not as strange to 

2624
02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:38,680
them because it's what they grew
up with to Catlin's the outsider

2625
02:18:38,680 --> 02:18:40,799
in the North. 
And so her perspective is really

2626
02:18:40,799 --> 02:18:44,719
important to showing us the 
strangeness of the place from an

2627
02:18:44,719 --> 02:18:47,440
outsider's perspective. 
We're going to get that through 

2628
02:18:47,440 --> 02:18:50,200
Davos on Skagos, and that's 
awesome. 

2629
02:18:50,280 --> 02:18:52,160
So keep. 
Hearing what you said from I 

2630
02:18:52,200 --> 02:18:55,680
think it was Valerie Rita's, 
Yeah, pack your bagos for 

2631
02:18:55,760 --> 02:18:58,360
Skagos, Davos. 
Keep hearing that for some 

2632
02:18:58,440 --> 02:19:01,160
reason I. 
Know me too honestly, Yeah, not 

2633
02:19:01,160 --> 02:19:06,200
to toot my own joke, but yes, I 
was proud of myself for that 

2634
02:19:06,200 --> 02:19:08,680
one. 
So yeah, so we have we have like

2635
02:19:08,719 --> 02:19:11,040
other characters going north, 
which is things like George is 

2636
02:19:11,040 --> 02:19:14,040
setting this up for a lot of PO 
VS to be showing as a lot of 

2637
02:19:14,040 --> 02:19:17,879
northern things through non 
northern eyes because yeah, we 

2638
02:19:17,879 --> 02:19:20,639
already had Catelyn and she's 
kind of not in the picture in 

2639
02:19:20,639 --> 02:19:24,200
terms of that anymore. 
Sam has gone north and then gone

2640
02:19:24,200 --> 02:19:28,440
back S he may go back N again, 
but we also have Asha and 

2641
02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:30,879
Melisandre, who has a lot of 
insight into the supernatural. 

2642
02:19:30,879 --> 02:19:34,280
So Asha, Melisandre, Davos, 
maybe Sam comes back. 

2643
02:19:34,520 --> 02:19:36,959
It's almost as if a lot of 
Southern POV characters are 

2644
02:19:36,959 --> 02:19:39,920
headed north. 
OK, actually scratch the almost 

2645
02:19:40,520 --> 02:19:42,879
a lot of southern POV characters
are headed north or already 

2646
02:19:42,879 --> 02:19:43,559
there. 
It's already. 

2647
02:19:43,600 --> 02:19:47,680
Yeah. 
Anyway, the Stoneborn are just 

2648
02:19:47,680 --> 02:19:54,080
too bad ass and fun and they're 
like Chekhov's cool side race 

2649
02:19:54,080 --> 02:19:55,880
from the North. 
They have to be important. 

2650
02:19:55,880 --> 02:19:58,440
They got to be part of the 
battle of for the Dawn or a 

2651
02:19:58,440 --> 02:20:01,640
problem in the North uniting 
something. 

2652
02:20:01,640 --> 02:20:03,640
I don't know exactly what, but 
my point stands. 

2653
02:20:03,640 --> 02:20:05,840
They are too cool to be left 
out. 

2654
02:20:06,360 --> 02:20:09,320
Davos is going to get us there. 
We're going to see a lot of 

2655
02:20:09,320 --> 02:20:12,720
echoes of what we just talked 
about with Barth Blacksword and 

2656
02:20:12,720 --> 02:20:15,560
the the types of dangers that 
they present or the type of an 

2657
02:20:15,560 --> 02:20:22,720
ally they can be for both and. 
That's great, but we also will 

2658
02:20:22,720 --> 02:20:26,480
get by filling in these things 
through A Song of Ice and Fire. 

2659
02:20:26,480 --> 02:20:29,000
We will also be back filling a 
lot of this. 

2660
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:31,880
We'll also learn more about the 
history of House Stark, which is

2661
02:20:31,880 --> 02:20:35,960
a grand goal that we can only 
inch further forward on because 

2662
02:20:35,960 --> 02:20:37,520
we'll never get it all. 
We'll never get all the history 

2663
02:20:37,520 --> 02:20:39,560
of House Stark. 
That's ridiculous. 8000 plus 

2664
02:20:39,560 --> 02:20:41,080
years of history is never going 
to happen. 

2665
02:20:41,720 --> 02:20:45,440
But characters like Barth, Black
Sword are a big reason why we do

2666
02:20:45,440 --> 02:20:47,720
want more, why we want to get as
much as we can get. 

2667
02:20:47,840 --> 02:20:50,520
Even if it's only inches, we 
want it. 

2668
02:20:51,080 --> 02:20:53,240
Trivia question. 
Who said the line? 

2669
02:20:53,400 --> 02:20:57,560
Only heart trees ever see half 
of what they do on Skagos. 

2670
02:20:58,320 --> 02:21:02,160
Roose Bolton said that one. 
Yes, he did. 

2671
02:21:02,640 --> 02:21:04,960
None other than Roose Bolton. 
I see. 

2672
02:21:04,960 --> 02:21:06,960
I said there wouldn't be much 
Dread Ford in this one, but I 

2673
02:21:06,960 --> 02:21:08,160
had to get a little in there. 
A little. 

2674
02:21:08,160 --> 02:21:12,120
Bolton snuck in there. 
That's right. 

2675
02:21:12,600 --> 02:21:15,040
That is our episode. 
My friends. 

2676
02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:19,440
I hope you enjoyed this northern
deep dive into an old ancient 

2677
02:21:19,440 --> 02:21:23,600
place and Winterfell and the 
succession crises and a lot of 

2678
02:21:23,600 --> 02:21:26,280
characters that we want to know 
more about but we already know 

2679
02:21:26,280 --> 02:21:29,000
quite a bit about. 
If you want to stay immersed, 

2680
02:21:29,400 --> 02:21:32,280
check out our Hard Home episode 
or our Skagos episode. 

2681
02:21:32,280 --> 02:21:36,560
We have one, it's really old, 
but it talks about a lot of 

2682
02:21:36,560 --> 02:21:39,160
these things in a different 
light and some new other things 

2683
02:21:39,160 --> 02:21:41,520
as well. 
Hour of the Wolf Craig and Stark

2684
02:21:41,520 --> 02:21:44,560
episode focused on him rather 
and then another one, actual 

2685
02:21:44,560 --> 02:21:46,600
Lord Craig and Stark focused on 
his whole life and not just the 

2686
02:21:46,600 --> 02:21:48,400
hour of the Wolf. 
Hour of the Wolf being such a 

2687
02:21:48,560 --> 02:21:52,040
being a separate incident that's
important within his life. 

2688
02:21:52,240 --> 02:21:54,600
We have two scripted episodes on
House Manderly. 

2689
02:21:54,960 --> 02:21:57,040
We have an episode on House 
Karstark. 

2690
02:21:57,960 --> 02:22:00,040
Honestly, I couldn't list all 
the ones that this one touched 

2691
02:22:00,040 --> 02:22:01,760
on. 
There's a lot. 

2692
02:22:01,920 --> 02:22:03,640
And of course, Ashea even 
mentioned Valerie. 

2693
02:22:03,640 --> 02:22:05,840
That's where we cover quite a 
lot of Northern stuff as well. 

2694
02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:08,040
So really, you have a lot of 
options. 

2695
02:22:08,040 --> 02:22:11,880
My friends and I do appreciate 
you sticking with us. 

2696
02:22:12,640 --> 02:22:15,800
We have so much more to do. 
As you heard during the halfway 

2697
02:22:15,800 --> 02:22:17,880
point of this episode, we have a
lot of great episodes coming 

2698
02:22:17,880 --> 02:22:20,320
this year and a lot more. 
That is not the full list. 

2699
02:22:20,560 --> 02:22:22,120
It's only the full list of 
topicsmoot. 

2700
02:22:22,360 --> 02:22:24,080
We have some that we're coming 
up with on our own. 

2701
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:28,000
We've always got more ideas. 
And of course, later this year 

2702
02:22:28,000 --> 02:22:31,080
they'll be ATV season. 
So 20252025 is continuing to 

2703
02:22:31,080 --> 02:22:34,400
shape up great. 
We'll keep it going, and one of 

2704
02:22:34,400 --> 02:22:36,800
the best ways you can keep it 
going and maximize your 

2705
02:22:36,800 --> 02:22:43,360
enjoyment is to Valar reread us.
Thanks to Nina, thanks to 

2706
02:22:43,360 --> 02:22:46,640
Michael Klarfeld, thanks to 
Joey, and thanks to you all 

2707
02:22:46,800 --> 02:22:48,760
again, Valerie Ritas.