None. A Song of Ice and Fire came
before Fire and Blood in reality, but of course George
wrote quite a bit of Westeros history for his novels before he
got around to writing those extended materials.
That includes many of the characters from the Dance of the
Dragons era, particularly the famous ones.
Not all, but quite a few still famous during the Dance and
famous 170 years later during the era of A Song of Ice and
Fire are different matters. Arguably of everyone from that
era, the Dance era, the Targaryens, Valarians, High
Towers, Baratheons, Blackwoods, Strongs, famous bastards are
common folk. A pair of twins in the
Kingsguard are perhaps remembered best of all.
Unlike most of the others, they did their duty.
They kept their honor at a time when so few others did.
But that duty LED them directly to tragedy.
And that fatal combination is why they are so well remembered,
and will continue to be, and why they are perfect encapsulation
of the Dance itself. Most people in the fandom seem
to agree that House of the Dragon did them justice.
It told their story well and the actors, Luke and Elliot
Tittensor were amazing. They certainly looked the part
of each other. We'll talk about their history,
their impact on history after their deaths, all their mentions
in the Song of Ice and Fire, a few things about twins and
Arthurian influence. We got all that and more on this
episode of History of Westeros Podcast.
Hello and welcome to our Wednesday Deep Dive of the Week.
Deep dives of the week are book slash show combo episodes.
The show brings a topic to life. We merge that with all the book
details. We have put it all together for
you in one presentation here. We also have of course, live
streams, 6:00 on Mondays Eastern and Saturdays at 3 for preview
episodes, filled boilers but never leaks and game streams on
6:00 Eastern on Fridays Over at twitch.tv History of Westeros,
we have some notes from Nina today.
Good Queen allie.tumblr.com. Her latest blog post is a
question that a lot of us have. What's happening over in the
Riverlands, And I mean during A Song of Ice and Fire with Tom O
Sevens and River Run and Jane Westerling.
In other words, what does Tom O Sevens know about Jane
Westerling? As in is he aware of what she
knows, aware of Jamie has planned for her?
A lot of questions along those lines and Nina gives some good
answers. So you want to check that out.
Once again, good queenalley.tumblr.com.
All right, if you have questions for us, send them into
westeroshistory@gmail.com and or say what you got live to us and
maybe we'll talk about it here during the episode if you are in
fact watching live. Those of you who have listened
to History of Westeros for a while or familiar with our
content know that when we talk about characters and do deep
dives, one of the first things we do almost every time is the
first mention we talk about when they first appear in the series.
And you know when you're listing off examples, you save the best
or last for maximum emphasis, like in this quote here.
Brand knew all the stories. Their names were like music to
him. Serwin of the Mirror Shield, SER
Ryam, Red Wine, Prince Eamon the Dragon Knight, the twins SER
Eric and SER Arik, who had died on one another's swords hundreds
of years ago when brother fought sister in the war the singers
called the Dance of the Dragons. That is Brand 2A Game of
Thrones, the 9th chapter of the entire series.
So the twins are among the earliest world building
creations in all of A Song of Ice and Fire.
They were most certainly written during the pitch period when
there were only about 13 chapters written and George was
shopping it around to publishers.
So we're talking more than 30 years ago that these characters
were created most likely. And George was definitely
thinking about the dance very early.
Of course, the Dance is mentioned here and we've got
characters like Raniera and Aegon mentioned there.
He actually did change a few details before the Dance fully
fleshed out, but nothing too big.
Now over the years on this pod, we should probably use that
quote that Ash had just read about 1/2 a dozen times.
But we did an episode on Servant of the Mirror Shield, so of
course we used that quote. We did an episode on AIM and the
Dragon Knight, Well, actually two.
Of course, we didn't use the quote in both of them, but we
did use it in that series, of course.
And he was only born a few years after the end of the Dance, so
the twins would never have heard of him, but he certainly heard
of them. Aim and the Dragon Eye would
have been born just a few years after their death.
So yeah, he became a Lord Commander and would of course be
familiar with their history, especially their recent history.
I imagine they were topic conversation about the extent of
duty and and what you're supposed to do in a situation
like that. The ultimate conundrum for a
Kingsguard. So we have not done one on the
other one mentioned in here, Sir Ryan Redwine.
And he technically does appear in House Dragon, but only in
episode one. But he is relevant here today
because he would have be a primary influence on the twins,
just like the twins may have influenced Amon, but
posthumously Ryan influenced these twins while he was still
alive. And posthumously Ryan was the
Sir Bariston the Bold of his era.
And we've seen how other Knights and Lords like, you know, I'm
talking about Sean, when people get embarristons like some
people, certainly other Knights, they're just like they're
immediately in awe, right? Think of like the Dornishman,
Quentin's folk, like Garrison and Arch.
They're immediately like, oh, of course.
Well, no one is good as Barris and the Bull.
They're all very like, you know, other when other other than the
one time it gets heated talking about Danny, you know.
He is like a living legend. And Eric and Eric are dead
Legends, Yeah. They weren't legends while they
were alive. That's the difference, right?
Yeah. I wonder if we could see some
sort of parallel. I mean, it's not twins exactly,
but you know, like Kingsguard pitched against each other.
Barristan returns with Danny to King's Landing.
What will the other Kingsguard, how will they feel about having
to fight Barristan? You know, like.
That's, there are some theories that Barristan will be the one
to switch over to Young Griffside, which, you know, that
would be one way to resolve it. But it still would, he'd still
be at odds with Kingsguard of the Baratheon regime or the
Lannister Baratheon regime. So there's still, yeah, there
would still be issues there regardless of what side he's on.
Yeah, it's more complex for him, even, because there's a line
that Eric gives. Yeah, Eric, not Eric.
I'm pretty sure Eric says something to the effect that
that Damon's kind of challenging him.
In fact, there's quite a parallel between the way Kristen
challenged Eric as the way that Damon challenged Eric.
You know, if your brother makes you look suspicious, you know,
anyway, he says, you know, we swore an oath to the royal
family as a whole. What are we to do when it turns
on itself? You know, And Barristan, I guess
if Barristan believes, realizes whatever, the Young Griff is
actually a Targaryen and so is Danny.
He's supposed to protect both of them.
But if they're at odds with each other, what's he supposed to do?
But is that even the family he's supposed to be protecting?
Or should he be protecting the Baratheons is?
It's tricky, it's easy when you swear to the current king, you
know it's that guy or woman. If it's in the rare case of a
queen, it's there's no trick there.
It's it's when there's a someone dies and the succession is
muddy, then obviously that's when it comes up.
And you know, in prior cases that wasn't a problem.
So they're named before Rainier and Aegon the second they're
mentioned in the appendix, as Nina hinted at, that's their,
that's their first mention. Otto Hightower's first and only
mention in A Song of Ice and Fire comes from Grand Maester
Pylos in Davos 5A Storm of Swords in this mentioned he's
he's it's stated that he was famed for learning but failed as
a hand. Now, of course, this is 170
years later. There's lots of interpretations
there, but we just saw him get fired.
So you can kind of and we've seen him get fired twice
actually. So pilus is trying to convince
Davos that lack look, lack of education is not a true barrier
to being a good hand to stand this like this guy was amazing
at learning and look what happened to him, etcetera.
So he he's just trying to puff Stan Davos up there for good
reason. Davos.
I think we all agree Davos does make a good hand.
And he is kind of making a match to be the the anti Otto, which
is kind of what he is 'cause he is a common born person brought
up versus this high Lord. That's actually if you were
trying to come up with an opposite hand of the king for
Otto or Davos. They might.
They would be good good for each other as the counter example.
Otto's king had his fingers removed.
Hey. Davos as the Hand had his.
How about that? You know, I'm not necessarily
gonna try too hard to defend Otto's success as a Hand, but I
wonder how you measured that. Like, who was a successful Hand
was Tywin? Tywin was also fired and then
killed. Some of it's long term, I think
you look back on it and you go, you know, like we we will all
look back on currently world leaders with differently in 20
years. You know, I think that's a big
part of it. Speaking of characters that
people look differently on much later, Kristen Cole is first
mentioned in A Feast for Crows during the Soiled Night chapter.
That's Aries Okart's chapter. Aymond is mentioned by Tyrion
and Tyrion 3 against Dragons kind of makes sense there
because Tyrion's the guy that knows so much about Dragons.
Prince Damon is not mentioned at all.
If he ever is mentioned, you would think it would be by
Tyrion, but it could be somebody else and maybe it's going to
happen now that he's a fully fleshed out character, which he
wasn't at this time. George might drop a mention of
him in The Winds of Winter or in the next Dunkin Egg book or
maybe A Dream of Spring, something like that.
Allison isn't either. So just for us, just to give a
parallel to someone else who isn't mentioned, but Eric and
Ark are mentioned several more times.
We shan't miss an Eric Ark quote today.
We've got all of them for you today.
And perhaps there will be more of them.
Like George saw their their showing on TV and he knows
they're an important part of the legend and they've been
mentioned a few time. Maybe he's going to add more
mentions. You know, we talked about maybe
Damon getting thrown in there, but why not additional mentions
of Eric and Ark? Let's talk real quickly about
their house. There's not much to say about
House Cargill. It's a house in the crown lands.
Rather was in the crown lands. It is extinct.
Not it's. This wasn't a case of them
moving like, oh, they were. They were in the Crown.
Where'd they move to? No, they moved to Oblivion.
Yes. Keep sending your male kids to
the Kingsguard 2 at a time. And maybe that's why, you know,
that's actually not what happened as far as we can tell.
But it is. It's a good joke, I think.
Yeah, it's a good joke. Laugh, please.
Laugh. No.
So Dunk notices. There we go.
Yes, laughter. I'm doing well today.
Dunk notices that Sir Clarence Cargill based on his arms at the
Ashford tourney 79 years later. Yeah, he's like, oh, I I
recognize him. He the goose.
It's a golden goose on red and black.
Sometime after the Ashford tourney, they go extinct.
Nina has a great suggestion that their house words are devoted to
our 'cause she loves to create house words for houses that
don't have them, and she thinks quite a bit about what that
would mean, like what words would be important to them, what
values, what they would try to express.
I think it's silly and serious, Geese.
Silly and serious geese, Yeah. Both.
The silliest serious goose So we wonder if maybe the cargills
were from a marshland or given the goose, maybe.
You know, that is kind of where geese like to live.
But it's, you know, I don't know if there's a lot behind that.
A great theory comes to us from Nobody suspects the butterfly.
Nina showed it to me, and I really like it.
We know that Aries, after one of his many children died
stillborn, and he had a lot of those, right?
He and his wife Rayela, right? And at 1.1 of them died and it
was a, it was another Jaharis, by the way, which is what part
of what makes this theory so great is that it was a baby.
Harris dies and he blames the nursemaid who was like a lot of
nursemaids are younger women from noble houses, especially
when you talk about the nursemaids to a royal.
And it was some crown lands house that was extinguished by
Aries. It doesn't say which one, but
the timeline fits. We don't know of any other
extinct crown lands house that really fits.
So there's a lot of gaps in some of these records, but it's our
only candidate. It fits super well.
So right now we're going to go ahead and operate on that.
That's pretty cool, huh, Sean? It's really fits together.
We got the whole thing kicks off with the death of a baby Jairus
and then maybe the the Eric arc footnote here for their house
getting extinguished because of the mad King, the final
Targaryen king, which you you pointed out really well, how the
the destruction of the model, Aegon destroying his model was
really like kind of the end of their connection to Valyria
'cause this is this war is gonna result.
His I declare war is gonna result in, you know, no more
Dragons, which that's their best connection to Valyria is the
Dragons themselves, right? Yeah.
What do you think of this? Yeah, I wonder if the it's a
golden goose on their sigil. Yeah, You know, I wonder if that
has any significance cause a goose is kind of a weird thing.
Usually you're like a a lion or a lightning bolt or, you know,
some kind of martial, you know, ferocious, intimidating, you
know, or, or regal. I guess sometimes like like a
flower. I guess the line even kind of
makes fun of their sigil being a flower.
But but I think a flower is better than a goose I guess.
It might be goose are really aggressive.
They're pretty like they're, they're kind of brave and fierce
in a way, Like they don't look that way, but like real geese,
like everybody, you know, we joke about how they're kind of
assholes and. Geese speak up and Eric spoke
up, I would say there. You go.
He said. Don't you get Mazzaria?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what?
I don't want to get too far ahead, but that was a trait they
both had when they were kind of challenged by their superior.
They very tactfully and respectfully, but assertively
stood up for themselves. You know, both of them were
like, I, you know, I think Eric was careful to say, you know,
it's a matter of honor, my Prince.
He was like, if I'm showing you respect, but I'm answering your
that, that was not a rhetorical question.
There's a real answer. And then Eric?
That was Eric, yes. And an Aurek to Kristen Cole,
same thing, you know, kind of stood up.
He's like, where were you, my Lord?
I like that so much. But he's like, hey, I'm asking
you the same question, buddy. Yeah, that was really good.
And it's these two have been Kingsguard their whole life.
Like isn't Kristen Cole's their commander or he was never.
Yeah, he was in the show. He's their both their
commanders. He was never really Eric's
direct commander for long in the in boot cannon, but he was even
then because he was made Lord Commander a lot earlier in boot
cannon. Still, they were both in the
Kingsguard way longer than he was.
He was promoted above them. So they and especially the show
version, to them, this is the only life they've ever known.
So they know their job quite well.
That's the thing. They yeah, they can stand up for
themselves. They they know their
perspective. It's the only perspective.
They, they are rooted in it and they haven't really been outside
of it or lived another life. It's part of why you would have
a Kingsguard join at such a young age is you're really going
to make sure they're like who that's a, that's your most
formative years, you know, and like this is the one thing you
know, is fealty duty to the king and his family and, and giving
your life for that. Like you start that at 8 and 10
years old or whatever you're, you're locked in.
I appreciate it kind of the couple other little elements of
those moments where both of them also kind of stepped away from
other people that are around so that this sort of confrontation
was kept a little more private. I think that that's the sort of
tack that they understand is important.
And in general that often times the Kingsguard minus the one or
two that's being featured, right, like Barristan or Jamie,
whoever. But all the rest of them are
just kind of like in the background.
They didn't really say anything. They don't really have
personalities or opinions. But I, I, I, in my opinion,
that's probably not realistic, right?
They probably do, it just never come to fruition or we don't get
the opportunity. There's enough storylines going
on, but it doesn't make sense for them to just be droning
mindless robots. You can't really be a good
warrior and a good leader and a good protector without having
some sense and some boldness and its sense of responsibility.
All the other things, it would lead to someone questioning
suspicious order or a challenge to their honor or whatever else.
And so I appreciate that Eric and Eric got featured in that
manner. Well said.
Yeah. Barristan makes a similar point
in the novels. He says that a Kingsguard is far
above a mere Guardsman or something like that.
Because it's it isn't just standing guard, it's keeping
their secrets. It's having, you know, keeping
this oath and, and having this high standard for your behavior
and being thinking about other types of violence, like
assassinations and things that aren't going to just be
straightforward coming at you, Which if the the guards standing
at the door are not to blame if someone sneaks in a secret
passage and kills someone. But as Kristen Cole points out,
everyone's going to think that Kingsguard failed.
If that happens, no one's going to blame the guards.
But it's the Kingsguard's job. Like, there isn't really
excuses. That's one thing that Kristen
kind of hammered away at, which was cringy but clever.
It was the right thing to say to a man that that's that's that
honor and duty bound to like make him do this thing that that
he would never do otherwise. But let's let's let's keep with
their history here. It seems like the Cargill Quinn
started serving on the Kingsguard at the same time as
Ryan Redwine had He had been there for a while.
Of course, he was an old man by the time they probably joined,
but they were already in the Kingsguard during the Maidenpool
attorney of one O 4 following Viserys ascension to the throne.
So that's really early that the war didn't start 26 years later
and they were already in the Kingsguard.
So book king, the book versions of them are definitely older,
but so same as Kristen Cole's definitely older in the book, so
is Allison. So there's a lot of age changes
for the adaptation, which given the huge amount of time and the
difficulty of adapting these jumps in time, you got to give
him some room to change some ages, I think, but other, but
just keep that in mind. This is one of the things we're
covering here is, is when you're making the comparisons, just
keep that, you know, be aware that these ages are are pretty
different. Quick little tangent here.
So there's a red one on the Kingsguard at the same time as
Eric and Ark, right? And he's the Lord Commander, the
famous one. Aren't there a couple red wine
twins in the the current? There are, yes, horror and
slobber, Yeah, a horror. Sir Horace and Sir Harbour yes
they're the they were hostages of the Crown for a while and not
anymore as of but that's Dragons.
They both are patched of red wine is sitting on the council
with so his kids are no longer hostages to to the Lannisters
because he's joined them now. They're not associated with the
King's Garden any particular way though.
Right, They want to be, but they're not like they both want
to join to be Marjorie's Kingsguard.
Like that's a thing that's happening in the background.
So whether that'll actually happen, I don't think so 'cause
I think maybe they went back to the Arbor or maybe one of them
did. I'm not sure where they
currently are. That's the the one thing I don't
have for you is their current whereabouts.
Wherever it is, they better be careful what they wish for.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. But they one of them is the heir
to the Arbor, which is different than I don't.
We don't know if either of these two were we can safely kind of
safely assume they weren't 'cause then they were get both
of them were going to the Kingsguard with and then they
have no air leftover for this house.
You know, that seems unlikely. They may have just had a sister,
but they probably had a brother and he may have been an older
brother, but maybe not. Maybe they had they and the
house they. 'D go extinct.
Maybe they weren't making the smartest choice with their kids
roles, you know? We've been joking that his name
is Erik or I Rick, you know the the third Cargill brother.
Yeah, this is the one with an I or AU.
Yeah. Oh, Rick.
Yeah. Richard Rick for sure.
Yeah, right. Moving on, we have.
You know, Ryan Redwine was arguably even more famous than
Barristan in some ways. He had been on the Kingsguard
even longer. 45 years was his full career in the Kingsguard.
Eric and Arc might have made it that long themselves had they
lived longer, but they were on track probably.
And it's possible they were that long.
We don't know how old they were, and they were, since they were
definitely older in the books by maybe as much as 10 years, maybe
even more than yeah, you're in the Kingsguard already.
They're already in the Kingsguard 26 years before the
dance in tournaments. So, you know, that means they're
probably at least like 161718, if not like 20.
So yeah, definitely room for that.
But we'll see. What else?
It's lots of people. So they would have grown up in
his he's their hero figure. He's the big icon that we can
point to that ever was trying to be like in that era.
So they would have also been very close to this 'cause
they're a crown lands house located near the cap, the
Capitol, at a time when loyalty and devotion to House Targaryen
would have been in its height, especially in the crown lands.
It's still pretty fresh. They still have the Dragons.
It's been peace for a while. The Targaryen at this point in
history have a pretty good reputation, especially in the
crown lands where the prosperity is.
They get a lot of that prosperity because they're so
close to the center of it, right?
They're in the crown lands where a lot of that wealth and and
power is flowing in. So it's a really good time to be
living there. Now, we don't really know much
about House Cargill, but twin sons is always a big deal.
Twins at all is a big deal. But in in knightly houses, a
pair of boys at once is they're going to be very, very happy,
thanking the gods and all that. And they might have been
connected to court at a very early age.
You know, if you have these boys growing up in the shadow of
knighthood of a famous knight and near the Red Keep, you could
see how they would be attached or notice pretty quickly if they
were talented, which they clearly were.
They clearly had the skills and got noticed quickly.
So yeah, they're they're dividing this next section into
book and show versions to keep it straight.
The first chronological mention of them is the year 105.
Both are defeated at the tourney by Kristen Cole.
That's his kind of coming out where everybody notices him for
the first time. And again, they're already in
the Kingsguard by then. So Cole wins, is named Rainier
Swarm Protector. Soon after that he joins the
Kingsguard when to replace Sorayam he's the one that takes
that place. They have their falling out,
meaning Cole and Rainier. Soon after he becomes Lord
Commander and break bones becomes her new protector.
So think about this, you've got Kristen Cole as Lord Commander
for about 5 to 8 years before things really start to go down
and Eric and Arc are his subordinates.
He was pretty rapidly pro green in this era and very anti rain
era and pro Allison. It's hard for them not to have
noticed that, feel that be affected by.
That doesn't mean he swayed them completely, but it would have
been a thing and it might have swayed them.
Real quick, I'm going to clarify.
We're talking book version, yeah.
This is all book version so forth, yeah.
Can we say how long? Can we guess how long he was
Lord Commander and the show version?
Oh, very briefly. I mean, remember, he was named
after Harold West Wing walked out.
Yeah. So that was like, so it's been
weeks, months. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, exactly.
It's a very. Short time, it was years so Eric
and Ark were would have, even if maybe in the beginning they
might have been suspicious of this guy coming out of nowhere
getting promoted above them. But after years past.
Yeah, he doesn't become Lord Commander right away.
It's like 7 years if I remember right.
Yeah 'cause it's it's when Harold Lesterling dies and book
cannon, he just dies and Cole gets promoted.
Whereas obviously the show version, Harold Lesterling just
lives way longer and then just exit stage left and there we
never see him again. So that's a big deal for the
future and setting up Kohl's attitude.
By the way, someone pointed out this out to me and something
wants to talk about later. Does Ray Nira have any idea how
much Kristen Cole still hates her like 20 years later?
Like they haven't seen each other, they haven't talked or
had a conversation. Does he?
Does he have any idea how much hate he's caring for her?
Probably not. I want them to have a moment
where she's like, I literally never think of you.
Yeah, yeah. 'Cause really, like, he thinks
about her a lot, you know, like that spider, like he uses, he's
where he curses her out and everything.
And she's like, Oh yeah, Kristen Cole.
Yeah, that dude I slept with. Now I'm sure she thinks about
him a little bit, but like, yeah, it's she has no idea
probably how much he hates her. She might think about him more
if she had to pay for the rent in the space in his head.
Even that might be noticed on her queenly ledgers.
Yeah, that that amount, that's a high rent right there.
A lot of space. So Jamie gives us great insight
into what it's like serving, you know, on a Kingsguard where your
oaths are wonky, they're conflicting.
Jamie joined the Kingsguard to be closer to his sister.
That was their plan. Like join Kingsguard, you'd be
close to me. And that backfired horribly in
the short and long term, right, Eric and Arc, it could have been
the same mine as the incest, probably, almost certainly.
But hey, no, no, I'm just kidding.
It's pretty hard to put duty before family.
My point is hard to put duty before family when your sibling
is your soul mate. Like they're your family and the
person you're more, you're more connected to them than in family
normally means like, you know, like most brothers and sisters
are not nearly as close as Jamie and Cersei or Eric and Aric.
And that's even if you take out the the relationship angle with
Jamie and Cersei, this that statement still rings true.
They usually would have a partner, but they both joined
the Kingsguards, so really their only partner in life is each
other right here. They never have another.
They never have a romantic partner.
Probably not before the age of 18.
Great point, great point and in and in show book can we don't
know when they joined. It's probably fairly young in
Showcan and they joined super young so they definitely didn't
have relationships outside. But what I mean is the other
parallel to Jamie and Searcy is she encouraged him to join the
Kings or he could be close to him.
Well it's unlikely both Eric and Eric joined the Kingsguard at
the same time. Like the show is smart about
that. Like why would they just have
two spots all of a sudden? It's not clarified in the book,
but we would assume give it no other information.
We would assume it's the same like maybe two Kingsguard died
at once. That's not too weird, but you
would expect that in a time of peace, someone dies, one person
replaces them a a few weeks or years later, another person dies
of old age or something, or an accident, same deal.
Maybe they get sick, but usually it's one at a time.
So Aarek would be in it and he's like, well, my brother's there,
my I want to join and he'd be the top candidate.
If ARC was doing a good job, they'd be like, well, this guy
who's identical to him seems like we should add him as well.
Like what? Right.
Like that seems really straightforward.
Doesn't. It I can imagine he probably
came along with his brother too and probably trained together
and he probably trained with the rest of the Kingsguard and they
all saw how good he was and had the same loyalty.
And I've also imagined a lot of times that there probably is a
pool of people ready to be drawn from for the Kingsguard, if that
makes sense. And he was maybe both of them,
but certainly once one was in, the other would have been in
that pool on the short list, you know?
There is in fact, an example of that that we know of.
Fireball was supposed to be named to the Kingsguard and when
he was not given the cloak, it's it's it's, it's sad that that's
part of why he was part of Damon Blackfyre's rebellion.
So yeah, pretty big deal there. Do you think it's possible that
two slots opened on the Kingsguard at the same time and
they they were they they did get to enter together, or do you
think that's unlikely? I think it's unlikely, but it's
definitely possible. I mean, yeah, like you could
have like two of them could have been on A22 Kingsguard could
have been on a ship together and died or some sort of bandit.
Robert Knight and Kurt, they were sent to deal with it and
both of them died. You know, it's it's possible.
It's not likely, but it's if there's a war, it would be a lot
more likely. But there is no war in that era.
So it's kind of like, yeah, you have fewer reasons to point to
deaths by violence and and more reasons to look for deaths by
old age and sickness. They're.
Not like the shivers or any kind of sickness.
Shivers was too far back, but that's a good call.
That's a good possibility. I like what you're thinking.
You know, Shivers was like the 60s.
So yeah. So they were there for Amon's
lost eye recall. That was a big deal.
So they would have both in book and Shokan and they would have
been there for that. And this of course is a major
milestone in the blacks and greens conflicts and it leads to
the full split and war later. It's a one of the most important
early seeds of the Dance and it happened during a year when lots
of seeds were planted and Viserys immediately ordered them
to split. This is book only recall, but it
did happen in the show as well, just slightly different
circumstances like these two half families can't live
together. They're just at each other's
throats. They're insulting each other,
they're calling each other bastards.
They're chopping each other's eyes out.
You know you can't. It just isn't working.
You got to separate them. So Viserys in book version
orders Rainier and her children to stay on Dragonstone while
Allison and hers live in King's Landing.
And this is when there's some accusations and stuff.
And Break Bones is sent back to Harrenhal.
That's when he dies quickly with his father.
But the point here is that Eric is sent to replace break bones
as Rainier's protector. So the the in in a 30 year span
or 25 year span or no, it's 15 years span.
I'm sorry, it goes Kristen Cole then break bones and then Sir
Eric. So Sir Eric in the year 120, a
full 10 years before the war breaks out is living a
Dragonstone. Pretty big difference from the
show. He's he and Eric live apart for
a good decade and just naturally grow close to the faction that
they've been set with. So when the coup occurs, Sir
Eric is just ordered to go wake people up by christening, summon
the council. We've got a meeting.
And the next thing you know, they've stolen the the crown.
And what's he going to do? Like one King's Guard by
himself? Actually, yes, Sir Stefan
Darkland defects, steals the crown for rain for right here
and goes to Dragonstone. But Eric wasn't in the council
chamber for the coup discussion, right?
Neither was Aegon himself. In the show we see Eric assigned
to Aegon specifically quite often.
That's for quite possibly that's the case in books as well.
Now, there were of course attempts to resolve things
peacefully prior to the outpack of war in both book and show.
In the book version it was Grand Maester Orwell going by himself
to lead a delegation without Otto, and the show version had
Otto. Supposedly it's the last time
the twins saw each other before their fight to the death, and we
get a great quote from Fire and Blood here about it.
Long after the dance was done, the singer Lucian of Tarth would
compose a sad ballad called Farewell, My Brother, still sung
today. The song purports to relate the
last meeting between SER Aurek Cargile and his twin, SER
Ehrich. As Orwell's party was boarding
the ship that would carry them back to King's Landing.
SER Aurek had sworn his sword to Aegon, SER Ehrich to Rainiera.
In the song, each brother tries to persuade the other to change
sides. Failing, they exchange
declarations of love and part, knowing that when next they meet
it will be as enemies. The singer, of course, took out,
took note of how took note. See what I said there, how
perfect the twins were in symbolizing the tragedy of this
war. Like you said it, Sean, they
encapsulate the war in the world.
They people recognize that too. It's so poignant and noticeable
if you are aware of the history or maybe lived through it, that.
Yeah. What what's sadder than their
duty causing them to fight each other, who they would have been?
Love. It's it's love is the death of
duty concept, which we'll we'll discuss a little more later.
But yeah, let me hear from you on this.
This is, this is the heart of it, isn't it?
Yeah, I it was like a strong thought stirring.
I mean, when we did our last podcast, it has only been
reinforced the idea that they, it's, it's like, you know, when
you do those parallel lives, you know, when you say like, you
know, four or five bullet points and it could, but it could apply
to multiple different people. You know, I, I feel like you
could describe the relationship between Eric and Eric and these
bullet points that are also describing the relationship
between the greens and the blacks.
You know, if they're just a microcosm of everything that's
happening, that there, there, there isn't a clear.
Neither one of them is obviously right or wrong.
Both of them are aligned with sides that have good and bad
parts. They're both torn by their
duties. They from a distance, they look
the same. Up close they look the same even
but. Incomplete information, I
suppose. They're both operating on, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, you could say it all like
it's great. Damon and Amon, they care.
About each other despite being opposed to each other, they.
They love each other and see each other.
Yeah, it's like that's pending for the black.
Right. They love each other and think
of each other as traitors. It's a really hard thing to like
they. They grew up together.
Mind that, yeah, they grew up together.
Oh, that's a great point, yes. On and on.
Yeah, Yeah. It's, it really is like a
mirror. They see themselves, but they
see the things that they don't like about each other as well.
We mentioned on Monday as well, I'll mention it briefly again
here that the song the Stark theme is called Goodbye Brother
and this is Farewell my brother. But technically this came after
because it was it's this is not in the world of ice and fire.
I don't think it's only in fire and blood, which means it was
written in 2018 ish 2016 seventeen maybe and goodbye
brother, the Stark theme was written in like 2011.
So yeah. And then, you know, the real
world chronology doesn't always line up with the in world
chronology. Let's talk real differently real
quickly. It was with the show version.
Some of the differences here of the two characters, almost
everyone's ages are changed. Like I said, Cole, Eric, Archer,
all younger. I would guess the best number to
throw is about 10 years younger for pretty much all of them.
And whereas Rainier is made a little bit older and yeah, they
just all a little closer together.
I think I read somewhere Ryan Condell, someone was asking him
something. It might have been like, where's
Maillor? You know, they were asking for
for something to be explained. And he's like, well, we condense
30 years, 20 years and so that's that's going to explain some of
these time and age differences. And so you saying 10 years lines
up with his 30 to 20 year condensation?
Perfect. I haven't actually heard him say
that. That's great.
That does make a lot of sense in what they were going for.
They're like, yeah, 30 years is so difficult.
It's narrowed down to 20. That does make a lot of sense.
So the actors, Luke and Elliott Tittensaur were 35 during season
2. I assume they were 33 during
season one two years prior, but that gives you an idea of shows
you they're about 10 years younger than and the actors even
were about you'll be. Shocked when you learn that they
were just 22 during this filming of season. 1.
It. Was summer.
Really. Condensed those years.
About an hour that's that's a did a better job, more
impressive job than I thought they actually could.
Did real time travel and condensing.
This is impressive. The things they can do on screen
these days. It's really impressive.
That Dome, what's it called? What's that?
Yeah. The volume, yeah, it's it time
travels as well. So the show has them joining at
8:00 and 10:00, which is really, really young.
It's kind of hard to understand. It's, it definitely violates
book cannon. You know, not, not a big deal,
but the youngest knight in book cannon is age 12.
That was Damon Blackfyre. And he comes later than that.
So you, you can't, this one doesn't fit to book cannon, but
that's OK. I, I, I can explain it.
I guess I kind of already have you bring them in really early.
You're sacrificing some short term security for long term
loyalty. So they're, they're not as good
those first few years, but then the rest of their whole lives,
which might be 40 years, they're hyper loyal, hyper defined, No,
no other life. Again, your most formative
years. And it's a time of peace.
So it's a, it's a reasonable time to take that risk.
So I, I'm OK with that change. You know, I generally prefer
them not to make changes when it's not necessary, but if
they're going to make a change, it's way better for it to fit
well than it just to be kind of sloppy and thrown around, which
this one's, this one fits, so I'm cool with it.
I don't think that they joined separately at age 8 and ages 10.
I think they joined together at 18.
I think that's what he means when he says. 1810, yeah,
that's. That's eight and 10.
The way they speak. I'm so sorry.
That's just the way they say. 18-8 and 10.
They both joined at. 18 Man, you're so right.
I, I I did not know if you were saying that.
Mistake people were way making. When Eric says I swear toward
the Queen, it's like you're twining toward her like at her.
There's like nobody say to ward, like I will ward her like from
danger. Ward her from danger.
It's like, Oh yeah. So this is twice I've heard Eric
wrong because both times it was Eric, not Eric.
So anyway, that's amazing. OK, good.
So it's not. The point still stands in a lot
of ways, but I I I made the same.
Had the same confusion the first time and out of probably the
second third time also. But.
So I don't have to explain this, it's just they joined at a
perfectly cromulent age. Wondering why you thought it was
so young. I was like, I guess it's a
little young. I don't know.
Yeah, I keep. Saying 8:00 and 10:00 and you're
still hearing 18 when I say that.
Yeah, every time. I know.
And I'm. Saying 8 for one of them and 10
for the other. Oh, that's hilarious.
OK, Well moving on because we. Didn't talk about like if or how
far apart they might have joined too.
So in showcan at least. In in Showcan they joined at the
same time. So yeah, within a year within
yeah, you're right, it might not have been the same time.
It was both when they were 18, which implies the same time, but
but you're right, it doesn't have to 'cause it could have
been up to 11 months and 29 days apart.
So that's, that's really funny. I should have caught that.
I'm glad you all did. Like they 8 and 10 they've
that's the how it's said all the time.
Like of course, why would they have an 8 year old kings card?
No, I I I think my explanation was actually decent, but it's
clearly unnecessary and and not out of place.
I really can't believe you thought an 8 year old boy joined
the King's card. I can't believe a 12 year old
boy Trent joined the King's card.
Well, he. Didn't he was just a knight, but
he still he was he still that was he was incredible at 12.
But yeah, anyway, so let's move on from there then.
So the early fundamentals are in place and similar.
Like although the show set up and the book set up, yeah, you
condense the change, the amount of time you you have some set
up. They're not super different.
The main difference is that Eric wasn't sent to Dragonstone 10
years ahead. He but he does spend more time
with Aegon. He's directly with Aegon a lot,
which why is why he gets disillusioned, because he's
directly sees Aegon's behavior all the time, whereas his
brother doesn't. So the disillusionment isn't
there. So when the time comes, he just
loses heart. Remember that they're chasing
Aegon and he just walks away. He's just had it.
That's a really major moment for a guy that's been a Kingsguard
his whole life. Just be like, I'm done, I've had
it. And so walk away from his
brother too is pretty, pretty big deal.
He does, to be fair. Of course, he doesn't just walk
away. Then, without prior saying
anything, he tried to convince his brother of Aegon's vadnais
or unfitness to rule, which Aegon himself even agreed with
in that scene. He's like, I'm not.
I don't know what to be the king.
Yeah. So I feel like this gives the
Watchers a little more visceral reason for the split.
It would be a lot harder to keep track of these twins if they're
separated that far. Go.
You want to make sure you know who they are.
You're getting ready to have this big moment.
You need to introduce them and have them on screen and set up a
little conflict before they kill each other.
And that's done differently in a history book where you could
talk about the song 10 years later.
You know, they can't they can't jump ahead in the show to talk
about, well, guess what? These guys are going to be
remembered fondly, you know, for the next 170 years.
Stay tuned. You know, like that, that won't
work. So already you can see where in
the history book it doesn't fit. Like it doesn't doesn't work.
You know, like that part of the adaptation couldn't work, just
telling the story, like saying how well these guys are
remembered later. You know, I'd love it if we
heard it in a night of the Seven Kingdoms in a hedge night,
wouldn't you? Yeah, I hope.
Yeah. I hope so too.
And real briefly, they're gonna 'cause they're gonna have to
change some things about that too, 'cause that's the Hedge
Knight was written before a lot of the world building was
flushed. Like we've we've gone on at
length before about how there's just the black fires are just
missing from from that. And you can explain that, but
it's good to change that. But anyway, let's let's stick
with this. So from the show, from that
point, he take Eric takes up the role of Stefan Darkland.
He's the Kingsguard that's there when the council splits and he
leaves with the crown instead of Stefan Darkland doing that.
Eric does that in the show and it's that very moving, I swear,
toward the queen scene, which again, is really important for
making sure we know who these guys are and seeing their split
right at the end of the season. Only two, even though it's two
years, it's two only two episodes before their final,
final duel. As it turns out, the show also
has that delegation that I described with Orwell, but it's
auto leading instead. The twins are both there in that
moment too, if I recall correctly, but they wouldn't
have had a chance to speak because it's like they're almost
threatening with each other. And Rainier is finally like, all
right, go. You'll have my answer in a day.
So when are they going to have a chance to talk?
They kind of are shuffle off there.
Hard to say. OK, let's take a quick five
here. One actually won't even be 5.
But if you all are enjoying our coverage this season, make sure
you join us over on Patreon. We've got lots more bonus
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So saves you a little time get through the episodes a little
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And yeah, lots of good stuff over there.
Just check it out at historyofwesteros.com is our
website and you can find links to everything We have all the
different ways to support the show, all of our sponsors, all
the ways to find our different episodes.
It's the hub. It's not fancy, but it's got
everything there. And you can also find links to
Patreon like I said. Or just go straight to
patreon.com/history of Westeros directly and skip the website
part if you so desire. By the way, Aziz, which shirt
are you wearing? Oh yeah, I'm wearing a Fox and
Brambles shirt. Fox and Brambles link is in the
description. You can, as it is in almost
every episode we've made the last several years.
It is a Kingsguard shirt. It says we do not flee.
I see that you have a some sort of is that a Pink Floyd shirt?
Yeah, it's a reference to Pink Floyd, but instead of a a ray of
light splitting to a spectrum, it's a piece of chalk splitting
into crayons of the different. Teacher, leave those kids alone.
Let them play with their chalk. The goose versus the dragon is
our next section. Twins are often compared to
mirror images for obvious enough reasons.
This photo that's been going around that I used for a tweet
recently has the two staring at each other.
It could easily have been just one of them mirror image with
the other, but since we know they're both real people and not
one twin playing both roles, it's probably both them anyway.
Their duel to the death was prophesied in the show by Queen
Helena using their house sigil as a clue.
We've got some of her drawings here that's been that have been
released that I hope the show gets into a little more detail
with some of this. We're not going to see specific
drawings like this one probably, but I imagine there'll be more
things in the background and hopefully some more discussion
with other characters maybe figuring out what's going on
here. The line is the goose kills its
reflection and both die. That's pretty straightforward.
They're the goose sigil, right? So if anyone had been looking at
her books, they might have seen that.
And if they knew she was a prophet, they could maybe figure
that out by sigils. Sigils are are always a clue.
The animal involved is just look at the sigil.
Like who is that? And like what animals involved?
What houses have that sigil? There's your answer.
At least you have a a small range of answers to pick from.
Prophecy in the in an air, in a realm with sigils is just so
much easier. What would anyone have done
differently, though, You know? Yeah, right.
Yeah. Exactly.
I don't know. I don't know what they would
have done differently. Yeah, that's a good point.
So yeah, like you said, some of the other mirror qualities,
there's both sides have an Aegon, you know, there's Aegon
the King, and then Rainier is Aegon Rainier and Damon's Aegon.
Aemond is just the name Amon with AD at the end, and Damon is
the name Amon with AD at the front.
They're fighting over where the D goes.
Don't pay dirty minds. Don't think.
Yeah, let your mind go where you want.
That's funny. And like you said too, the the
Dance is House Targaryen killing itself.
So yeah, it's all these parallels are are wonderful.
Not to mention the aforementioned servant of the
mirror shield who literally used a mirror to do that trick on a
dragon to make it think. It's like, I don't know why the
dragon would be fooled by this. It's like, oh, another dragon
that looks like me. I don't care.
Why would the dragon just be like, oh, I don't care another
Dragon's coming at me. It's just because it looks like
me. I don't care.
If it didn't look like me, I would roar and but it looks
exactly like me, so I will I will go back to sleep and you
can stab me in the eye like that.
Legend has all kinds of issues, doesn't it?
But supposedly we're and it'd be interesting to see if the show
does this. Someone named Byron Swan
apparently tried this in the dance to one of the Dragons, and
I'm not trying to avoid spoilers.
Sean, Tyrion and Halden debate which dragon it happened to
which dragon or this guy tried to do it to.
You could, as you can tell by my this is not a good plan.
Yeah, it didn't work for this guy either, but apparently he
may have even tried the mirror shield thing to one of the one
of the Dragons during the dance, which is pretty wild to think
about. Don't take legends and miss
literally folks. By the way, the answer to where
the D goes is keep it in the family.
For this family, it really is. Dang, you're right.
Wow. So let's go through some other
mentions in The Song of Ice and Fire before we get to the actual
duel itself, because these are people remembering the duel.
And hey, since again, we're covering it from this
perspective, we can go forward before we go back, unlike the TV
show's presentation. So here's a series of mentions
and quotes that I think you all will find very entertaining.
Bran, of course, loves those stories of knighthood, but
obviously he's not the only one in his family who loves stories
of knighthood. Of course, Sansa is big on those
as well. Here is Tyrion 9, the Clash of
Kings, Sansa speaking to Joffrey quote.
Princess aren't supposed to cry. Prince Eamon, the Dragon Knight,
cried the day Princess Nerys wed his brother Aegon, Sansa Stark
said, and the twins, SER Arik and SER Eric, died with tears on
their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound.
Joffrey's response is half funny, half scary.
He says shut up or I'll have Sir Marin give you a mortal wound.
It's like, no, you it's it's that's why it's kind of funny
because it's the no, you joke like you are.
No, you are. Yeah.
So that's twice now that the twins are mentioned alongside
specifically Prince Eamon, the dragon Knight, who is arguably
the most famous knight of all time.
Nina points out this is a great example of Sansa using her very
deep knowledge of chivalric stories to her benefit.
So she doesn't idealize Joffrey by comparing herself to him and
Nerys and Eamon, which she used to do the previous.
This is a clash of kings. She's already learned at least
that much. This is part way through her
growing up in the presence of this monster.
Sansa is correcting Joffrey through the power of song and
story. She's like, no, everybody knows
this story. She can't just say no Princess
can cry. She has to use a famous.
This famous example backs her up.
It's not her opinion. It's the opinion of this very
famous legend that no one can dispute.
So Joffrey's only answer is, that's why it's so petulant.
He's like, well, I'll shut up. We're all yeah, but I'll have
him warm to you. Yeah.
Right, so Sansa didn't decide that the bravest leader should
leave from the vanguard. Everyone knows the bravest
leader should leave from the vanguard.
Love it, love it. Yes, very true and from a very
real perspective, tears are not weakness.
Some of the bravest hero figures of all time in world or our own
have wept right? Like George gives us the
Carthene. That's the whole culture that
thinks crying is totally fine if not encouraged.
And Achilles, a good example of a heroic figure I've mentioned
plenty of times in the history of this show.
He was a crier, he was a weeper, right?
No one doubted his bravery. But it isn't just kids like Bran
and Sansa who know the stories. Cersei, again a twin herself,
mentions them here. Quote.
Grin all you wish Sarah Braun, you'll be screaming soon enough.
Enjoy your lacquet lady, and your stolen castle whilst you
can. When the time comes, I shall
swat at you as if you were a family.
Perhaps she would send Laura's Tyrell to do the swatting.
If the night of Flowers should somehow return alive from
Dragonstone, that would be delicious.
If the gods were good, each of them would kill the other like
Sir Eric and Sir Eric. Can I say what I hear here is
the bit in Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Dee or
Caitlin Olsen as being arch. That's how I hear this delivery
in my head is we're getting like more and more arch of of
delivery just over the top. She had a mustache.
She'd be twirling in it. I'm hearing it now.
Like the way you delivered it. Yeah, I can sort of hear that.
I didn't know you were doing D, but it fits now.
I was. Trying to dial it back and not.
Do that. I just can't help it.
This is this is how you hear it in your head.
You just have to act it out that way.
Yeah. So Nina points out the irony
here being that the historical Eric and Eric killed each other
on Dragonstone, while Sir see dreams of Lords coming back from
Dragonstone to kill Braun. And of course, given that Cersei
bears some similarities to Rainiera, there's also an irony
in Cersei thinking she would send to Kingsguard to kill
another knight since Aegon sent Sir Eric against Rainiera.
And it's like, this is not what the Kingsguard is supposed to be
for. It's like someone who just kind
of abuses the honor of that roll like they're supposed to be the
finest Knights in the realm and the finest Knights in the realm
do are are dutiful, honorable, loyal, but they do not, as Sir
Eric said, traffic in deception or murder like that, which like
this, this sullies all of them. Like Kristen called the point
Kristen was making like this sullies all of us.
He went sullied the more by his his response to them being
sullied was further sullied. But hey, it's still it's it's a
it's a it's a sore spot. It's a real thing that their
their image. You know, when we talked about a
Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and Dunkin Egg and the nature of
like, what are the vowels of a knight?
What is the wording in it that it might even be different from
night to night time period to time period, different locations
or whatever. Clearly there is a a a different
level up vowel for the King's Guard that I also don't think we
exactly know, but we have gotten a couple clues to it here that
it's to the whole family and it on some level they're supposed
to be forthright in their defense, not use subterfuge.
So interesting little pieces to the puzzle that we might get all
together when we're going to wonder about this forever.
And then one day we're just going to George is going to give
us the one paragraph exact Kingsguard, which I'll be happy
with. I'll be happy with the mystery
be. Solved.
If we get it, we get it. Yeah, that'd be cool.
So we're moving our way up the age groups here, which shows us
how Sir Eric, Sir Arak are part of like every generation.
We had Bran, Sansa, then Cersei and here we have from a Dowager
Queen to the Queen of Thorns quote.
Outside its tall carved doors stood 2 guards in gilded half
Helms and green cloaks edged in gold satin, the golden rows of
high garden sewn on their breasts.
Both were seven footers, wide of shoulder and narrow of waist,
magnificently muscled. When Sansa got close enough to
see their faces, she could not tell one from the other.
They had the same strong jaws, same deep blue eyes, same thick
red mustaches. Who are they?
She asked Sir Loras, her discomfit forgotten for a
moment. My grandmothers personal guard.
He told her their mother named them Eric and Aurek, but
grandmother can't tell them apart so she calls them left and
right. Interesting that Sir Loris is
part of both of these last two quotes, kind of how Eamon the
Dragon Knight was part of the two previous.
Yeah. So he's just these interesting
tie INS. He's entered characters that are
associated with each other. And this kind of funny sense is
kind of like the equivalent here.
She's kind of like at at a photo shoot for her favorite boy band.
Like, there's these two very handsome 7 footers.
There's Sir Lores. She's just like, oh, this is I'm
surrounded by songs and stories like Eric and Eric, and they're
handsome and I'm with Sir. Yeah.
Like she's just over the moon in that moment there, her
discomfort forgotten for a moment, as it says.
Do we know or is there a theory as to what house these guys are
from? They are common born.
As far as we know, they're not part of any house, so maybe
they're they're household Knights of the Tyrells.
They're wearing Tyrell garb, so there's no house to identify
them with. I kind of see them as maybe red
wines because the red hair and then the red hair is is red wine
trait, so I don't. Know interesting it's certainly
not mentioned I think you would hear about them if they were red
wine, but I. Mean red wine men, like how
you're saying like they're from the Tyrell men like they're from
the harbor, like they're local. I see red hair runs on the
harbor. You're not saying they're actual
red? Yeah, I see.
Yeah, yeah, that's certainly possible.
Maybe some Dunk the Lunk heritage in there.
You never know 7 footers, anyone that tall, it's you got to
consider it right? And magnificently muscled.
Magnificently muscled. What was it that that Cersei
said about Robert when he was younger?
Muscled like a maiden's fantasy. That's the sense of maiden's
fantasy right here. So I'm not sure we're supposed
to read much into these two twins in terms in terms of them
like turning on each other, like reenacting the twins fight.
I kind of doubt that's hard to imagine that they're just her
guards. They're not like what would turn
them against each other. It's hard to imagine that.
But it's more made perhaps a statement on how their legend
has become such a big part of the culture that you have two
male twins. You consider naming them Mark
and Eric and you're like, let's see, we are they worthy of that?
You know, you don't go with, you know, I don't know what other
some names the phrase have just going naming after other
people's families, right. They have a there's a Rhaegar
Fray and an Aegon fray, but there's also a Tywin Fray and a
Jamie Fray. Those are twins right there.
Tywin and Jamie fray are twins. In fact, it's another pair of A
Song of Ice and Fire twins. So yeah, now of course they
haven't been forgotten in the Reach.
I mean, they're remembered everywhere.
We got the Northerners remembering them, we got Cersei
thinking about them. We got Reach, of course the
Reach 'cause they're the heart of chivalry, at least according
to them. The Veil might argue with that,
but the, the twins aren't actually from the Reach.
These two are, but not the not our subjects, the Cargill twins.
Cause again, that's the crown lands.
So their lives are worth exploring.
That's how they remember. Let's talk about the actual duel
that had so much to do with why they're remembered by all these
characters. The book version gave us a lot
more history and back story on them.
The show version gives us a lot more detail on how the actual
dual and mission went and the action and their death and all
that. But we got some from both.
So here's some combo book and show content for you.
In both book and show, the death of Prince J Harris is the
trigger, and in both cases it is Kristen Cole's idea suggested
directly King Aegon in the show. It's part of why he's made hand.
In the books it's listed as basically the second thing he
does is hands. Like basically like the same
council session or the same set of orders.
It's so close together that it may as well be done at the same
time. So very little difference.
In the books, Cole orders the mission and Sir Eric is noted to
have gone to the Sept to pray for forgiveness.
And in the book version or the show version, he just kind of
argues about it. And that's kind of how they
reflect this. And for all we know, he does go
to the Sept. We're not going to see his
whole. I like to imagine he did.
I, I thought about that a little bit too, because Cole gives him
the order and the next thing we see he's like on Dragonstone.
There had to be some preparation in between there, right?
He had to like, I'll get a change of clothes and food, a
boat ticket. I even thought about the idea if
it was smart for him to show up in the Kingsguard uniform, maybe
he should have waited till he was in the castle Unchained.
Yo, but some of those how's? He going to get into the castle
though, without his Kingsguard guard in the book.
That's what he he, he's, he dresses as fishermen and then
changes, which we can kind of assume is what happened here in
the show too, like. Have already happened on the.
Shore we see him walking up the hill.
We don't know what happened what he was doing before he got off
the boat. We don't see him get off the
boat. So it's it's hard to be sure
there now. Also, it should be said in the
book version it's said the sources are unclear on what the
mission was in the show. It's kill Rainier.
That's that's explicit in the books, though.
It could be it's either that or Jace and Joffrey.
It's there's there's a debate in the sources other which it was.
So it's either the two sons or rain era.
So then he sails for Dragons on either way and book and show he
gets there one way or another, whether he's disguised as a
fisherman or not. He presumably he had to disguise
as a fisherman because of the blockade.
So there has to be some way where he he couldn't have just
gone in his garb, but that might have maybe maybe that helped him
get past too. They're like, oh, it's Sir Eric.
Let him let him through. You know, I could get him
through the blockade and through the.
Yeah, anyway, it's not hard to explain.
We didn't see it, but it's it's not important to to get into
that. In the show, Cole feels a lot of
guilt and shame and is driven by hate for Rainiera and a love for
Allison. And the love for Allison is not
necessarily romantic in the book.
It's not explicit or said that way, but there is a devotion to
her, which you can see why it's sexual in the show.
It could have been in the books and the Maitres just never knew
about it, but it it it would fit either way.
The set up, the emotion behind it all is very similar book and
show. You've got Cole's.
Cole's pretty much of the same mind frame in both.
Yeah, I would say he's driven by a number of things.
You know, one is he's projecting.
He's he's oh, in fact, that wasn't a little note that I took
when he when he first confronts Aurek and he gives him a hard
time about his cloak being dirty.
And he, you know, he's going to give him this mission and he
kind of challenges his his loyalty and, and he ends up
making a point. You said earlier, like, like I,
I think Cole knows good and well that he is loyal, but he also
recognizes that the question of his loyalty could come up, you
know, and they just go to all the rat catchers.
They don't think all the rat catchers come away.
But like, and in the same way that Damon was kind of
threatening him, Damon didn't threaten Eric, but he did
threaten the other two Kingsguard with his dragon.
He's like I want you to re swear your loyalty with my dragon
present like he's using fear to. He might have done that to Eric,
but Eric came after that. Exactly, exactly.
But Cole is basically doing the same thing as like, I'll just
tell the king that I don't trust you, and that'll just be an end.
You know, he's like, you better do what I say.
You know, I've got you under my control one way or the other.
And he's like, fine, I just have to do this.
Yes, he makes it about honor and he makes it about fear.
He makes it about he threatens the king, but he didn't threaten
him with his life. I don't think Eric, Eric feels
for his life. He feels like you're I'm going
to tell the king you're untrustworthy, which is like his
honor is being questioned, which is again, is this his whole life
has been tonight duty and honor. That's that's what matters to
him most. Cole knows exactly what levers
to push to get him to do what he wants.
He starts small with the cloak. Then he works his way up to the
bigger violation. Then it says, look, even if it's
not your fault, it's up to you because you were the guy in
charge at the time. Doesn't matter if it wasn't your
fault, we're going to get the blame.
So it you have to fix it. And it's suspicious because your
brother's on the other side. There's all these.
Things. Yeah, he lays it on thick.
I will say that I do think however much Cole meant to or
not, there is a threat in his life too because Aegon did just
kill all those rat catchers and I'm.
Just saying, I don't know that he was worried about that.
But you're right. You're right that it was there.
I I I agree. Yeah.
I don't know if that would have moved him.
If he's worried about death. It's hard to go on this mission
in the 1st place, you know? Yeah.
But the the thing about it I was going to say is that his
response when Cole suggests this, when he's like, where were
you? You know, he's he doesn't say,
what are you crazy? Are you questioning my loyalty?
How could you even think that? What he says is, are you mad?
Yeah. Are you?
Mad and he means. Mad like in saying crazy mad,
but Cole actually is mad angry himself for his own
indiscretions and he's taking it out on him.
I thought it was a well written little moment.
He's. Like, yes, I am mad.
I'm I'm angry, mad. That's that's, you're right,
Sean. That's a really good way.
Really good. Good take there.
So duty is the death of love. I raised this point at the
beginning early in the episode. And of course it's a phrase in
the books. The actual phrase is love is the
bane of honor, the death of duty.
The twins are the case where this is kind of reversed.
You know, it's the duty is the death of love here.
They did their duty and they both died for it.
Here is the book version of Aryx Arrival at the Castle.
Sir Arek came ashore without hindrance, donned his armor and
white cloak, and had no trouble gaining entrance to the castle
in the guise of his twin brother, just as Christian Cole
had planned. Deep in the heart of
Dragonstone, however, as he was making his way to the royal
apartments, the gods brought him face to face with Sir Eric
himself, who knew at once what his brother's presence meant.
The singers tell us that, SER Eric said I love you, brother,
as he unsheathed his blade. And that, SER Aurek replied.
And I you, brother. As he drew his own, the twins
battled for the best part of an hour.
Grand Maester Moncken says the clash of steel on steel woke
half of the Queen's Court. But the onlookers could only
stand by helplessly and watch, for no man there could tell
which brother was which. In the end, SER Arek and SER
Arek dealt each other mortal wounds and died in one another's
arms with tears upon their cheeks.
Now, this is multiple sources used for one account and because
it's so poetic, it is the preferred version.
But you can see where some of the exaggerations are without
even putting it under much direct screwed.
And you can see fought for an hour.
That's it's kind of extreme. That seems very unlikely, the
whole idea that they both had tears on their faces and they
both said I love you. Yeah, it's possible.
I I don't. I'm I'm glad that the show gave
credence to that possibility. But you can see why this is a
little, you know, added to a little exaggerated, a little
softened, perhaps. You know, it's still pretty
tragic, though. It's a little Arthurian perhaps,
which is an influence that is present here, I think Nina says
it's feels reminiscent of Ned's fever dream of the Tower of Joy,
the poetic declaration of love followed by this fight to the
death where there's like this is all about love and duty coming
together like one. Ned's love for his and duty
towards his sister, the King's guard, their duty towards their
their oaths and the new king, etcetera.
Maybe even to the Song of Ice and Fire, depending on what
Rhaegar told them. All this stuff that matters so
much that's that's jumbled up in his mind because when Ned thinks
of it, it's he's, you know, he's literally in dreaming, you know,
and he's in pain and has been given milk of the poppy and all
that stuff. So of course it's not going to
be just straightforward, but it's very fitting.
And I love that we're able to very easily connect Eric and Ark
to some of the series's most poignant, tragic moments and
some that are yet to come. Like, again, Jamie and Cersei
perhaps are the twins that we can most draw parallels with
them too. Now, in this version of the
fight, Nina says another perhaps flaw is you don't have to know
who's who to break up the fight. You can just like stop them and
then figure out who it is, you know, do this, the Solomon test.
Especially if it's going on for an hour.
Yeah, yeah. You can see why in the show
version or in this version, other book version that we're
about to read, why there wouldn't have been time to stop
them. But in this version, it's like,
yeah, just like get like 1020 Knights and just like with
Shields and just run in between them and just hold them back.
And it's like, well, Eric, Eric won't fight any of them.
And Eric might just be like, all right, you got me.
I don't know. So, yeah, either way, that.
So there's a lot of reasons there's a problem with that
story. But that's the most popular
version. That's the version Sansa
believes in. That's the version Bran believes
in. You know, and you can see why.
It's the it's the story. It's the best story.
You know, if you're into stories and don't care about what really
happened. Which is true for young people
and old people, too. And middle-aged people, anyway.
It was one of their old bit that I forgot to mention in the our
last episode that I felt like there was a a theme or a motif
of moments where control has been lost, whether it's
someone's temper or, or, you know, like in the wake of the
the boy being assassinated. Like everyone's like in this
panic and everyone's being hustled around.
They have a meeting and Aeon's just throwing stuff around and
yelling. Every time we have one of these
moments, the doors get closed. When when Otto's yelling at
Aegon, the door gets closed. When?
When Aegon's smashing the castle, the door gets closed.
When Eric is about to go in there and try to kill Renera,
the door gets closed and. Locked.
There's another moment where things are out of control behind
a closed door. That's good.
Right on. So here's the other take from
the fire and blood, and this one probably resembles the show
version more, but your mileage may vary.
Quote. Mushrooms account is shorter,
saltier, and altogether nastier. The fight lasted only moments.
Our fool says there were no declarations of brotherly love.
Each Cargill denounced the other as a traitor.
As they clashed, Sir Eric, standing above his twin on the
spiral steps, struck the first mortal blow.
A savage downward cut that nigh took his brother's sword arm off
at the shoulder, but as he collapsed, SER Arik grasped his
Slayer's white cloak and pulled him close enough to drive a
dagger deep into his belly. SER Arik was dead before the 1st
Guards arrived, but SER Arik took four days to die of his gut
wound, screaming in horrible pain and cursing his traitor
brother all the while. Yikes, I'm glad we didn't get
that version. It's like the more likely book
version because they, like you said, is these.
They were parted for so long, I think they would have been more
likely to see each other with a traitorous view than they are in
the show. I think you're right.
And I like that they preserve the the fatal wound For Eric,
it's the gut wound. Either way, he stabbed in the
belly, whether he did it to himself or whether he's cursing
his brother for four days. This version does seem more
authentic, more realistic, but it's there's still problems with
it. I mean, seriously, how do you
have your arm cut off and then pull your brother down and stab
him with a dagger, all with just that one arm?
Now you know, that seems a little tricky to me, but it's
not impossible. But it's a little hard to
believe, which is why we can't can't just accept one of these
versions over the others. Flaws with both, even if we
think one has more flaws than the other.
That's part of the legend. They're all part of the legend
now. This also would have been more
difficult for anyone to witness fighting on a spiral staircase.
How can anyone see what's happening in this fight right?
That's a good point. You would not get a good vantage
of it. You would be like behind it.
You would have a tough angle. You would hear them screaming.
You would have like and if it was so fast it says Sir Arc was
dead before the 1st guards arrived, which implies that
maybe only a servant or two saw them.
Mushroom is there. This is an important thing.
Like Mushroom was a was at the castle.
That doesn't mean he saw it. That still doesn't mean he saw
it. Like the four days of dying is
perhaps the most believable part for a non witness to to
corroborate because you don't have to have been a witness to
the actual fight. And Nina points out as well,
it's important to remember these brothers spent that whole not
just apart from each other, but hearing every day while they
guard each other's leaders, how much the other side hates each
other. They constantly would talk about
like all those greens or all those blacks.
So it's just like they hear this propaganda or truth or a
combination of both for 10 years before this happened.
So yeah, you can't really see why they would have grown apart.
So the show's version is a bit of a mash up of both.
They definitely draw out the connection between the brothers
more, which I think was good. It makes it a little more
visceral and short term the the long term split isn't as you
it's harder to manage that on ATV show without the time
condensation anymore. So I agree with them doing it
that way. Mazzari is added into the mix.
Is the person who notices and and gives notice.
That's not a big change. You can imagine that somebody
could have said something, someone could have noticed.
Even though they look the same, especially in the book version.
Do they really like the exact same armor?
Like are they were? Do both sets of Kingsguard have
the same armor? Really?
Like if one if Granier in the show, just like let's have
different armor for our Kingsguard now, then this like
he shows up. It's like that's it's, it's an
older Kingsguard armor, but it checks out.
Sir, you know that wouldn't work.
If either one of them had shaved or trimmed their mustache or cut
their hair or anything like that, so.
That's the reason why the show doing it quickly makes sense,
because it's like the more time that passes, the more these
things aren't believable. It, it was so close to the
timing of how close he got to Bernara before Eric came in to
stop him, that it, it, it they clearly wanted to make it seem
like Meszario, like identified, warned someone, whatever else.
But it could have been just some other guard, could have said
wait, I just thought I saw you go down the hall.
That's impossible. To hold on.
A second, yeah, any number of ways it could have been
discovered and, and and could have been discovered 10 seconds
sooner or later and it might have panned out differently.
But all that to say that it makes me wonder again, for those
that don't know, I'm unsullied. I'm not sure where this is going
in the book. So you, you, you may Aziz, but
it makes me think that they're setting up Mazzaria to become
aligned with the blacks here. That's that's what I feel like
might be happening in in the next.
Certainly she just did a great service to the Queen.
That's you can see that how that could leverage into more, yeah.
Maybe she's just repaying the favor, but it wasn't really a
favor. Like Damon promised to let her
go and then didn't and she told Renera and so Renera went ahead
and let her go. She could have just gone and I
feel like everything would have been even.
But the fact that she seems to have taken some action to help
this side out. Without any obvious.
Yeah, without any obvious benefit to herself other than
the favor could get her something.
But yeah, she did. She didn't have to do that.
Yeah, that's a good point. As for Eric walking through
Dragonstone, this thing the book didn't draw out because you you
can't necessarily notice it because you're not following in
the POV of Blood and Cheese or of Ark.
But the the there's a lot of similarities between them.
Just walking past people and just pretend like you belong and
no one's going to notice you. Very similar.
Like especially the painted table room.
Ark walks past the painted table in the basically that's their
throne room. The equivalent that for the way
the scenes have been filmed and where the action is taking
place. It's sort of like their throne
room and their small council chamber for dragon stones kind
of one room instead of two. So he walks right through there
just like blood and cheese walked past who are like himself
in the throne room where Egon was sitting drinking with his
friends. So that's a great little that
really added to the tension. Like you said, Sean, you know,
right now, it wasn't going to get killed right there, but it
really felt like in that your your like lizard brain feels the
possibility despite the logic of it not not really fitting.
And that's hard to do when you have characters that you know
are pretty safe, at least in the short term.
Like long term, who knows, but. She might not get killed, but
she might get her eye stabbed out or something.
Yeah, she might not necessarily come out unscathed so.
Good point, Good point. So let's see just a couple more
things. The fight itself, Yeah, it was
excellent. Bitter, messy, great
choreography. It was short and brutal, kind of
like mushrooms description and they expressed love, they
expressed anger, they expressed all the difficulty.
It was really well done watching the BTSI highly recommend that
they they trained for it a lot. There was a stunt double for
just at the moment where the one brother falls onto that urn.
So that was Eric, right? Their other, their other brother
Urich, right. What's the 4th brother, 3rd and
4th brother Name the stunt double, the stunt double and the
stunt triple and the How many stunt double S do you need for
double S? Derek and Rick.
I want my favorite part of the BTS was they got interviewed
about it. Like someone asked who's better
at sword fighting and they gave the same answer for the same
reason or they gave the different answer for the same
reason. It's amazing.
Like like this is twin logic for you.
Like this goes to show that like when you're if you're a twin,
your life is different in ways that like we non twins can't
understand. One of them said, oh, he hit me
more, so he was better. And the other one said I hit him
more, so he was better, 'cause they're practicing.
You're not supposed to hit the other guy.
Someone's like, oh, he was more skilled at hitting me.
There's guy. The job is not to hit each other
'cause we're practicing. And it's like, so, yeah.
So they both just found a way to make the other one to give the
credit to their twin, which is. I love that.
Yeah. Real quick.
OK, couple more things. Just I mentioned Arthurian
influence. There's just this one that we
know about. And we know that George is
really deep in Arthurian legends.
He's read them all. And Sir Thomas Mallory's Lamorte
Arthur is extremely famous, extremely well known.
It's it's, it's probably the most famous book from the 15th
century, which maybe isn't saying a lot, but it's a famous
book. Now, Thomas Mallory died in the
year 1470. He may have been in prison
during the Wars of the Roses and it might have been for political
reasons. It's uncertain though, because
Thomas Mallory is a very common name.
Regardless, the one the correct Thomas Mallory who wrote this
book wrote of Sir Balin the Savage AKA the Knight with two
swords. Which that that sounds like a
George R Martin name doesn't it? And his twin brother Sir Balin.
So Balin and Balin BALIN&BALAN. Actually there's lots of
different spellings of these. Medieval England, whatever, lots
of different versions. The two would eventually kill
each other in single combat though.
It's in an inversion cause unlike Eric and Arc, Balin and
Balin were both in disguise and didn't know they were fighting
each other. In the case of Eric and Ark,
looking like each other is the disguise.
That's how Ark got into dragon stones, by looking like his
brother. So it's kind of, yeah, it is an
inversion of that. So that's pretty cool.
Like the show version in the marked Arthur, their death were
prophesied there. There's there's a lot of
familiar elements in there, such as battles for the crowns,
there's treason, there's conflicting duties like their
oaths conflict with each other. There's a dangerous quest to
regain the King's trust, which is pretty similar to what Arc
was told he was doing. It's not it's unclear whether
that's actually the case, but that was how Cole sold it to
him. And there's a suicide by falling
on one sword. It's it's neither Balin or
Balin, but there is a notable suicide in their tail.
And it's it's often said that Balin Balin is a story about
destiny, which you can see how that is fitting here as well.
Their duty LED them to this end. It was like almost they were
destined to to be on opposite sides of the civil war that
people, you could argue have predicted since Jeharis first,
you know, passed over a woman many.
Or maybe that's not the 'cause you point to, but it's certainly
one I point to. You know, I said in the last
episode that I when Eric and Eric were originally presented
to us, it was a little frustrating to me that there's
already so many characters and so many similar names and giving
us twins with similar names. It's so hard to keep up with
everyone. Why would they do this?
But then realizing, OK, one, symbolically, it's a really good
way to kind of compare the blacks and the greens.
But then also it sets up this plot point of our being able to
get into the castle because he looks like his twin.
But I wonder how much of that George had thawed out.
You know, you pointed out this is one of the first things he
had written 30 years ago and he was writing the Game of Thrones
book, not Dance of Dragons. I I wonder if he had it in his
mind that early that one twin was going to pose the other to
get into the castle. And even, and if he did even
have that, I thought that that means that he already had this
idea that Renera and Aegon would have this conflict and be in
different castles. I I wonder how far back and
knowing this Arthurian's story that might have been stewing in
his brain. He may have not.
Maybe some of these details, not exactly, but I can't imagine
that this was sitting with him for a long time that Lord knows
how many other ideas have been and are sitting with him that
are seeping into this story. Right, Yeah, it's it's
overwhelming. Yeah.
All right, well, let's close with Jamie and Cersei, our last
little sub topic here. Not only are they a model for
Kingsguard Knights in in the relationship with that comes
with someone being a Kingsguard. Now they're obviously different
that one of them is not in the Kingsguard.
But of course it still works as a comparison cause a lot of
things that are prophesied or foreshadowed for them.
And there's patterns in how George writes twins.
And of course they are the most important twins of all of the
whole thing. It's interesting and almost
funny that of all the of of the two of them, it's Cersei who
thinks of Sir Eric and Sir Eric in an example, not Jamie.
But it's almost hits harder that Cersei's the one to think of it.
Cause Jaime would of course be more steeped in the legends of
the King's art anyway. He's actually read the White
Book, whereas when we see him read the White book, whereas she
presumably has not bothered to read that book, her her mention
is almost ironic. She's thinks about how close she
is to Jaime, how they share a soul and how they came into the
world together and how they could leave it together.
Yeah. Like, just like Eric and Ark
leave it together. Cersei probably won't kill
Jamie, but he might kill her and then take his own life.
I think that's a very distinct possibility for how they exit
the story. Nina thinks that's a strong
possibility. I do, too.
We both thought that long before any comparisons to Sir Ark and
Eric. This definitely adds to it now
that we've seen it on the show, because, of course, the book
version of Eric and Ark doesn't have one of them falling on
their sword. But now we see that it really
draws to the rest of the parallels.
It's like, oh, wow. Yeah, there's this.
There's that. There's a lot of parallels
between Eric arc, Jamie, Cersei, the soul mate stuff, the one
soul and two bodies, the Kingsguard element to the
conflicting duty that is as part of Jamie's story more so than
anyone else, even more than Brienne or Dunk.
You know that. So he's the, he's the Kingsguard
conflict guy, right? He's the POV for that.
So I, I think that's really neat.
Any other thoughts on Cersei, Jamie and and Eric Ark here as a
comparison? Do you think, do you see it?
Do you think it tells the story of what might be to come or or
maybe was that a reach? It's certain.
I don't think it's a reach. I, I don't think it's a given
that it will happen. But it's one of those things, if
it does happen, OK, we can see how George is setting that up,
that parallel. Was there already the Rose I?
Would only add it. I don't put it beyond Cersei
killing Jamie, that's all. Like yeah, like go blow to blow
with swords, but she might poison him or kill him in his
sleep or have someone else. You might order Gregor to kill
him or something like that. Sure.
Yeah, it could happen. It could happen.
Yeah, she could. She could lose her temper, be
distraught. Just he does something to sever
their connection. And so she thinks he's a traitor
to her, like Eric said to Eric. Basically.
Like you're the one who broke us up.
You know, it's your fault if she perceives it that way.
And she's not the most likely to take responsibility, if we're
being honest, you know. Yeah.
And I said to do the Lannisters really want run to twins?
There's been so many, obviously, Sir Thailand and Sir Jason right
there. And then Martin and Willem, Teon
and Tywald. Anyway, there's lots of them.
So, like, not just the phrase. And the Targaryens have lots of
twins, too. But that's all we have for
today. One other thing.
Aaron and Emmerich, brothers in the Nights Watch.
A&E names who are from Fair Isle, More twins from the West.
They're in the Nights Watch. John trains with them, and maybe
they'll be on opposite sides of something, I don't know what,
but just keeping track of all the twins.
Here's the time for it, right? At least most of those twins,
their names are a little different.
There's also a Sarah and a Sarah.
There is a Sarah and a Sarah, yes.
Who does this? Why would you name your kids
such some names? I don't think anyone see about
the reality of growing up and trying to get your kids to come
to dinner or go to bed when they have the same freaking name.
Yeah, there's also Shara or Shira and Bandy who are twin
daughters of Joseph the Force, but unfortunately they are
captives at the Dread Fort. So yeah, we pray for Shira and
Bandy. 2 characters you might have forgotten even existed.
I'd rather be captive at the bread Fort.
Yeah, me too. My it smells way better.
Shout out to TK OK podcast network since the Super chat
says watching this later. Everyone is sending love now.
Heart heart heart. You guys probably mentioned
this, but are cargiles meant to be an inverse of the hound and
the mountain? Oh that's a great question.
I mean they're not twins. They do have a lot in common,
but they are kind of opposites that end up.
Both in the Kingsguard. Both in the Kingsguard and then
in the show version they kill each other.
So very good catch. I'm surprised I didn't think of
that. That's a really good parallel.
I don't know if that will be their bookending.
We've kind of like a little kind of go back and forth whether
it's too up, too optimistic or too like storyish for George to
bring to give Clegane bowl in the in the books.
But it's not it's not unlikely. It definitely could happen.
And if it does, then I would be on the lookout for Eric Ark
parallels with them. Although I don't I don't know
that they would both die, but it would be fitting.
It would be very fitting. Hard to kill an undead guy
picked up a sword again. That's my hope.
Right on, right on. That's also seems possible.
I love that question. Thanks, TK.
OK, podcast network, Appreciate the question.
Tommy, you have to think about the Hound in the mountain is a
parallel a little more. But for now, we must bid you
adieu. Next stream is technically my
Twitch stream on Friday, twitch.tv history of Westeros.
We have our next preview episode Saturday at 3:00.
And then of course, we're back with Sean on Monday for a
spoiler free review of episode 3.
That's right, some other episodes in our catalogue that
you might be interested in that I mentioned today.
If you're interested in Sir One of the Mirror Shield, we
mentioned that episode and it's a good one.
And one of our older ones, Prince Aiming the Dragonite, has
a pair of episodes. And I mentioned the twins, Teon
and Tywall Lannister who were around right before the reigns
of Castamere and lived during the Peak Rebellion.
And we do just so happen to have an episode on that called The
Peak Rebellion and the Death of Makar.
Check that out if you want to stay immersed in the history of
Westeros. We got so many episodes for you
to do that with and we hope you enjoy it.
Until next time, thanks to Nina for her notes.
Check her out again good queenalley.tumblr.com.
Thanks to our good friend Bran the Builder for the awesome
intro that we have. Look at those cool coins, those
swords, those Dragons, all that fire and that cool music which
has my own mother playing strings in it too.
A little bit. Got to shout her out too, of
course. Good job mom.
Shout out to Michael Klarfeld for his maps.
See those behind me? As usual, KLARADO x.de Clara
docs.de. That's how you can buy Michael's
maps. And until next time, on behalf
of Ashe and Sean Valarrieretas, have a good one y'all.
None. None.