1
00:00:43,280 --> 00:01:39,640
None. 
A Song of Ice and Fire came 

2
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,440
before Fire and Blood in 
reality, but of course George 

3
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,560
wrote quite a bit of Westeros 
history for his novels before he

4
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,680
got around to writing those 
extended materials. 

5
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,240
That includes many of the 
characters from the Dance of the

6
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,520
Dragons era, particularly the 
famous ones. 

7
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,400
Not all, but quite a few still 
famous during the Dance and 

8
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,200
famous 170 years later during 
the era of A Song of Ice and 

9
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,199
Fire are different matters. 
Arguably of everyone from that 

10
00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:10,479
era, the Dance era, the 
Targaryens, Valarians, High 

11
00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:14,600
Towers, Baratheons, Blackwoods, 
Strongs, famous bastards are 

12
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,400
common folk. 
A pair of twins in the 

13
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,320
Kingsguard are perhaps 
remembered best of all. 

14
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,840
Unlike most of the others, they 
did their duty. 

15
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,840
They kept their honor at a time 
when so few others did. 

16
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,720
But that duty LED them directly 
to tragedy. 

17
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,000
And that fatal combination is 
why they are so well remembered,

18
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,080
and will continue to be, and why
they are perfect encapsulation 

19
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,800
of the Dance itself. 
Most people in the fandom seem 

20
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,720
to agree that House of the 
Dragon did them justice. 

21
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,960
It told their story well and the
actors, Luke and Elliot 

22
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,360
Tittensor were amazing. 
They certainly looked the part 

23
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,600
of each other. 
We'll talk about their history, 

24
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,120
their impact on history after 
their deaths, all their mentions

25
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,640
in the Song of Ice and Fire, a 
few things about twins and 

26
00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,480
Arthurian influence. 
We got all that and more on this

27
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,680
episode of History of Westeros 
Podcast. 

28
00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:07,280
Hello and welcome to our 
Wednesday Deep Dive of the Week.

29
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,200
Deep dives of the week are book 
slash show combo episodes. 

30
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,320
The show brings a topic to life.
We merge that with all the book 

31
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,040
details. 
We have put it all together for 

32
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,400
you in one presentation here. 
We also have of course, live 

33
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:25,160
streams, 6:00 on Mondays Eastern
and Saturdays at 3 for preview 

34
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,240
episodes, filled boilers but 
never leaks and game streams on 

35
00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,720
6:00 Eastern on Fridays Over at 
twitch.tv History of Westeros, 

36
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,920
we have some notes from Nina 
today. 

37
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,560
Good Queen allie.tumblr.com. 
Her latest blog post is a 

38
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,520
question that a lot of us have. 
What's happening over in the 

39
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,040
Riverlands, And I mean during A 
Song of Ice and Fire with Tom O 

40
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,800
Sevens and River Run and Jane 
Westerling. 

41
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,560
In other words, what does Tom O 
Sevens know about Jane 

42
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,560
Westerling? 
As in is he aware of what she 

43
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,920
knows, aware of Jamie has 
planned for her? 

44
00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:02,560
A lot of questions along those 
lines and Nina gives some good 

45
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:03,720
answers. 
So you want to check that out. 

46
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,080
Once again, good 
queenalley.tumblr.com. 

47
00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,960
All right, if you have questions
for us, send them into 

48
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,880
westeroshistory@gmail.com and or
say what you got live to us and 

49
00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,240
maybe we'll talk about it here 
during the episode if you are in

50
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,400
fact watching live. 
Those of you who have listened 

51
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,240
to History of Westeros for a 
while or familiar with our 

52
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,840
content know that when we talk 
about characters and do deep 

53
00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:29,880
dives, one of the first things 
we do almost every time is the 

54
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,800
first mention we talk about when
they first appear in the series.

55
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,960
And you know when you're listing
off examples, you save the best 

56
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,360
or last for maximum emphasis, 
like in this quote here. 

57
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,400
Brand knew all the stories. 
Their names were like music to 

58
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,640
him. 
Serwin of the Mirror Shield, SER

59
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,400
Ryam, Red Wine, Prince Eamon the
Dragon Knight, the twins SER 

60
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,080
Eric and SER Arik, who had died 
on one another's swords hundreds

61
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,520
of years ago when brother fought
sister in the war the singers 

62
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,600
called the Dance of the Dragons.
That is Brand 2A Game of 

63
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,800
Thrones, the 9th chapter of the 
entire series. 

64
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,240
So the twins are among the 
earliest world building 

65
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,320
creations in all of A Song of 
Ice and Fire. 

66
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,240
They were most certainly written
during the pitch period when 

67
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,360
there were only about 13 
chapters written and George was 

68
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,760
shopping it around to 
publishers. 

69
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,760
So we're talking more than 30 
years ago that these characters 

70
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,800
were created most likely. 
And George was definitely 

71
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,080
thinking about the dance very 
early. 

72
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,520
Of course, the Dance is 
mentioned here and we've got 

73
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,960
characters like Raniera and 
Aegon mentioned there. 

74
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,400
He actually did change a few 
details before the Dance fully 

75
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:41,920
fleshed out, but nothing too 
big. 

76
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,560
Now over the years on this pod, 
we should probably use that 

77
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,040
quote that Ash had just read 
about 1/2 a dozen times. 

78
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,640
But we did an episode on Servant
of the Mirror Shield, so of 

79
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,440
course we used that quote. 
We did an episode on AIM and the

80
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,600
Dragon Knight, Well, actually 
two. 

81
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,160
Of course, we didn't use the 
quote in both of them, but we 

82
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,640
did use it in that series, of 
course. 

83
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,120
And he was only born a few years
after the end of the Dance, so 

84
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,800
the twins would never have heard
of him, but he certainly heard 

85
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,240
of them. 
Aim and the Dragon Eye would 

86
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,120
have been born just a few years 
after their death. 

87
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,880
So yeah, he became a Lord 
Commander and would of course be

88
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,120
familiar with their history, 
especially their recent history.

89
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,680
I imagine they were topic 
conversation about the extent of

90
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,920
duty and and what you're 
supposed to do in a situation 

91
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,400
like that. 
The ultimate conundrum for a 

92
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,200
Kingsguard. 
So we have not done one on the 

93
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,440
other one mentioned in here, Sir
Ryan Redwine. 

94
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,920
And he technically does appear 
in House Dragon, but only in 

95
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,680
episode one. 
But he is relevant here today 

96
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,880
because he would have be a 
primary influence on the twins, 

97
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,080
just like the twins may have 
influenced Amon, but 

98
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,080
posthumously Ryan influenced 
these twins while he was still 

99
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,920
alive. 
And posthumously Ryan was the 

100
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,920
Sir Bariston the Bold of his 
era. 

101
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,840
And we've seen how other Knights
and Lords like, you know, I'm 

102
00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:52,320
talking about Sean, when people 
get embarristons like some 

103
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,360
people, certainly other Knights,
they're just like they're 

104
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,400
immediately in awe, right? 
Think of like the Dornishman, 

105
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,600
Quentin's folk, like Garrison 
and Arch. 

106
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,400
They're immediately like, oh, of
course. 

107
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,080
Well, no one is good as Barris 
and the Bull. 

108
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,720
They're all very like, you know,
other when other other than the 

109
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,800
one time it gets heated talking 
about Danny, you know. 

110
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,320
He is like a living legend. 
And Eric and Eric are dead 

111
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,600
Legends, Yeah. 
They weren't legends while they 

112
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,040
were alive. 
That's the difference, right? 

113
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,280
Yeah. 
I wonder if we could see some 

114
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,480
sort of parallel. 
I mean, it's not twins exactly, 

115
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,560
but you know, like Kingsguard 
pitched against each other. 

116
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,160
Barristan returns with Danny to 
King's Landing. 

117
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,600
What will the other Kingsguard, 
how will they feel about having 

118
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,720
to fight Barristan? 
You know, like. 

119
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,120
That's, there are some theories 
that Barristan will be the one 

120
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,120
to switch over to Young 
Griffside, which, you know, that

121
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,480
would be one way to resolve it. 
But it still would, he'd still 

122
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,560
be at odds with Kingsguard of 
the Baratheon regime or the 

123
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,440
Lannister Baratheon regime. 
So there's still, yeah, there 

124
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,960
would still be issues there 
regardless of what side he's on.

125
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,920
Yeah, it's more complex for him,
even, because there's a line 

126
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,640
that Eric gives. 
Yeah, Eric, not Eric. 

127
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,760
I'm pretty sure Eric says 
something to the effect that 

128
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,160
that Damon's kind of challenging
him. 

129
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,720
In fact, there's quite a 
parallel between the way Kristen

130
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,120
challenged Eric as the way that 
Damon challenged Eric. 

131
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,600
You know, if your brother makes 
you look suspicious, you know, 

132
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:19,920
anyway, he says, you know, we 
swore an oath to the royal 

133
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,120
family as a whole. 
What are we to do when it turns 

134
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,680
on itself? 
You know, And Barristan, I guess

135
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,320
if Barristan believes, realizes 
whatever, the Young Griff is 

136
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,520
actually a Targaryen and so is 
Danny. 

137
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,640
He's supposed to protect both of
them. 

138
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,840
But if they're at odds with each
other, what's he supposed to do?

139
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,799
But is that even the family he's
supposed to be protecting? 

140
00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:41,880
Or should he be protecting the 
Baratheons is? 

141
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,240
It's tricky, it's easy when you 
swear to the current king, you 

142
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,440
know it's that guy or woman. 
If it's in the rare case of a 

143
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,280
queen, it's there's no trick 
there. 

144
00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:53,520
It's it's when there's a someone
dies and the succession is 

145
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,040
muddy, then obviously that's 
when it comes up. 

146
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,680
And you know, in prior cases 
that wasn't a problem. 

147
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,640
So they're named before Rainier 
and Aegon the second they're 

148
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,200
mentioned in the appendix, as 
Nina hinted at, that's their, 

149
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,760
that's their first mention. 
Otto Hightower's first and only 

150
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,040
mention in A Song of Ice and 
Fire comes from Grand Maester 

151
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,880
Pylos in Davos 5A Storm of 
Swords in this mentioned he's 

152
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,120
he's it's stated that he was 
famed for learning but failed as

153
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,840
a hand. 
Now, of course, this is 170 

154
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,240
years later. 
There's lots of interpretations 

155
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,760
there, but we just saw him get 
fired. 

156
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,960
So you can kind of and we've 
seen him get fired twice 

157
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,520
actually. 
So pilus is trying to convince 

158
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,120
Davos that lack look, lack of 
education is not a true barrier 

159
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,360
to being a good hand to stand 
this like this guy was amazing 

160
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,240
at learning and look what 
happened to him, etcetera. 

161
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,760
So he he's just trying to puff 
Stan Davos up there for good 

162
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:38,760
reason. 
Davos. 

163
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,840
I think we all agree Davos does 
make a good hand. 

164
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,880
And he is kind of making a match
to be the the anti Otto, which 

165
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,840
is kind of what he is 'cause he 
is a common born person brought 

166
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,040
up versus this high Lord. 
That's actually if you were 

167
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,800
trying to come up with an 
opposite hand of the king for 

168
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,080
Otto or Davos. 
They might. 

169
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,480
They would be good good for each
other as the counter example. 

170
00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:02,080
Otto's king had his fingers 
removed. 

171
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,360
Hey. 
Davos as the Hand had his. 

172
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,800
How about that? 
You know, I'm not necessarily 

173
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,920
gonna try too hard to defend 
Otto's success as a Hand, but I 

174
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,960
wonder how you measured that. 
Like, who was a successful Hand 

175
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,360
was Tywin? 
Tywin was also fired and then 

176
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,920
killed. 
Some of it's long term, I think 

177
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,200
you look back on it and you go, 
you know, like we we will all 

178
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,720
look back on currently world 
leaders with differently in 20 

179
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,120
years. 
You know, I think that's a big 

180
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,800
part of it. 
Speaking of characters that 

181
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,880
people look differently on much 
later, Kristen Cole is first 

182
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,040
mentioned in A Feast for Crows 
during the Soiled Night chapter.

183
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,120
That's Aries Okart's chapter. 
Aymond is mentioned by Tyrion 

184
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,800
and Tyrion 3 against Dragons 
kind of makes sense there 

185
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,400
because Tyrion's the guy that 
knows so much about Dragons. 

186
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,560
Prince Damon is not mentioned at
all. 

187
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,040
If he ever is mentioned, you 
would think it would be by 

188
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,520
Tyrion, but it could be somebody
else and maybe it's going to 

189
00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,560
happen now that he's a fully 
fleshed out character, which he 

190
00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:02,400
wasn't at this time. 
George might drop a mention of 

191
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,440
him in The Winds of Winter or in
the next Dunkin Egg book or 

192
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,760
maybe A Dream of Spring, 
something like that. 

193
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,760
Allison isn't either. 
So just for us, just to give a 

194
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,640
parallel to someone else who 
isn't mentioned, but Eric and 

195
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,920
Ark are mentioned several more 
times. 

196
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,720
We shan't miss an Eric Ark quote
today. 

197
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,280
We've got all of them for you 
today. 

198
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,440
And perhaps there will be more 
of them. 

199
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,400
Like George saw their their 
showing on TV and he knows 

200
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,520
they're an important part of the
legend and they've been 

201
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,000
mentioned a few time. 
Maybe he's going to add more 

202
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,280
mentions. 
You know, we talked about maybe 

203
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,040
Damon getting thrown in there, 
but why not additional mentions 

204
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,600
of Eric and Ark? 
Let's talk real quickly about 

205
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,280
their house. 
There's not much to say about 

206
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,400
House Cargill. 
It's a house in the crown lands.

207
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,800
Rather was in the crown lands. 
It is extinct. 

208
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,480
Not it's. 
This wasn't a case of them 

209
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,440
moving like, oh, they were. 
They were in the Crown. 

210
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,520
Where'd they move to? 
No, they moved to Oblivion. 

211
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,480
Yes. 
Keep sending your male kids to 

212
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,360
the Kingsguard 2 at a time. 
And maybe that's why, you know, 

213
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,080
that's actually not what 
happened as far as we can tell. 

214
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,560
But it is. 
It's a good joke, I think. 

215
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,120
Yeah, it's a good joke. 
Laugh, please. 

216
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:02,720
Laugh. 
No. 

217
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,080
So Dunk notices. 
There we go. 

218
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,400
Yes, laughter. 
I'm doing well today. 

219
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,760
Dunk notices that Sir Clarence 
Cargill based on his arms at the

220
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,560
Ashford tourney 79 years later. 
Yeah, he's like, oh, I I 

221
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,040
recognize him. 
He the goose. 

222
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,440
It's a golden goose on red and 
black. 

223
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,240
Sometime after the Ashford 
tourney, they go extinct. 

224
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,960
Nina has a great suggestion that
their house words are devoted to

225
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,200
our 'cause she loves to create 
house words for houses that 

226
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,600
don't have them, and she thinks 
quite a bit about what that 

227
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,840
would mean, like what words 
would be important to them, what

228
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,440
values, what they would try to 
express. 

229
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,000
I think it's silly and serious, 
Geese. 

230
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,080
Silly and serious geese, Yeah. 
Both. 

231
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:53,880
The silliest serious goose So we
wonder if maybe the cargills 

232
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,400
were from a marshland or given 
the goose, maybe. 

233
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,400
You know, that is kind of where 
geese like to live. 

234
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,920
But it's, you know, I don't know
if there's a lot behind that. 

235
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,160
A great theory comes to us from 
Nobody suspects the butterfly. 

236
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,000
Nina showed it to me, and I 
really like it. 

237
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:15,360
We know that Aries, after one of
his many children died 

238
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,240
stillborn, and he had a lot of 
those, right? 

239
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:27,000
He and his wife Rayela, right? 
And at 1.1 of them died and it 

240
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,560
was a, it was another Jaharis, 
by the way, which is what part 

241
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:32,200
of what makes this theory so 
great is that it was a baby. 

242
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,960
Harris dies and he blames the 
nursemaid who was like a lot of 

243
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,520
nursemaids are younger women 
from noble houses, especially 

244
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,080
when you talk about the 
nursemaids to a royal. 

245
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,400
And it was some crown lands 
house that was extinguished by 

246
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,400
Aries. 
It doesn't say which one, but 

247
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,360
the timeline fits. 
We don't know of any other 

248
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,480
extinct crown lands house that 
really fits. 

249
00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,240
So there's a lot of gaps in some
of these records, but it's our 

250
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:02,520
only candidate. 
It fits super well. 

251
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,760
So right now we're going to go 
ahead and operate on that. 

252
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,280
That's pretty cool, huh, Sean? 
It's really fits together. 

253
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,640
We got the whole thing kicks off
with the death of a baby Jairus 

254
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,320
and then maybe the the Eric arc 
footnote here for their house 

255
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,280
getting extinguished because of 
the mad King, the final 

256
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,400
Targaryen king, which you you 
pointed out really well, how the

257
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:27,920
the destruction of the model, 
Aegon destroying his model was 

258
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,600
really like kind of the end of 
their connection to Valyria 

259
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,960
'cause this is this war is gonna
result. 

260
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,240
His I declare war is gonna 
result in, you know, no more 

261
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,560
Dragons, which that's their best
connection to Valyria is the 

262
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,160
Dragons themselves, right? 
Yeah. 

263
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,440
What do you think of this? 
Yeah, I wonder if the it's a 

264
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,760
golden goose on their sigil. 
Yeah, You know, I wonder if that

265
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,680
has any significance cause a 
goose is kind of a weird thing. 

266
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,960
Usually you're like a a lion or 
a lightning bolt or, you know, 

267
00:14:53,960 --> 00:15:01,720
some kind of martial, you know, 
ferocious, intimidating, you 

268
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,680
know, or, or regal. 
I guess sometimes like like a 

269
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,400
flower. 
I guess the line even kind of 

270
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,640
makes fun of their sigil being a
flower. 

271
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,320
But but I think a flower is 
better than a goose I guess. 

272
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,200
It might be goose are really 
aggressive. 

273
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,680
They're pretty like they're, 
they're kind of brave and fierce

274
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,240
in a way, Like they don't look 
that way, but like real geese, 

275
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,880
like everybody, you know, we 
joke about how they're kind of 

276
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,720
assholes and. 
Geese speak up and Eric spoke 

277
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,360
up, I would say there. 
You go. 

278
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,000
He said. 
Don't you get Mazzaria? 

279
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You know what? 

280
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,440
I don't want to get too far 
ahead, but that was a trait they

281
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,200
both had when they were kind of 
challenged by their superior. 

282
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,400
They very tactfully and 
respectfully, but assertively 

283
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,080
stood up for themselves. 
You know, both of them were 

284
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:53,680
like, I, you know, I think Eric 
was careful to say, you know, 

285
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,040
it's a matter of honor, my 
Prince. 

286
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,720
He was like, if I'm showing you 
respect, but I'm answering your 

287
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,360
that, that was not a rhetorical 
question. 

288
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,040
There's a real answer. 
And then Eric? 

289
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,520
That was Eric, yes. 
And an Aurek to Kristen Cole, 

290
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,680
same thing, you know, kind of 
stood up. 

291
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,320
He's like, where were you, my 
Lord? 

292
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,000
I like that so much. 
But he's like, hey, I'm asking 

293
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,320
you the same question, buddy. 
Yeah, that was really good. 

294
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,520
And it's these two have been 
Kingsguard their whole life. 

295
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:26,040
Like isn't Kristen Cole's their 
commander or he was never. 

296
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,720
Yeah, he was in the show. 
He's their both their 

297
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,640
commanders. 
He was never really Eric's 

298
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,720
direct commander for long in the
in boot cannon, but he was even 

299
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,800
then because he was made Lord 
Commander a lot earlier in boot 

300
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,080
cannon. 
Still, they were both in the 

301
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,600
Kingsguard way longer than he 
was. 

302
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,760
He was promoted above them. 
So they and especially the show 

303
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,600
version, to them, this is the 
only life they've ever known. 

304
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,320
So they know their job quite 
well. 

305
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,080
That's the thing. 
They yeah, they can stand up for

306
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,120
themselves. 
They they know their 

307
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,960
perspective. 
It's the only perspective. 

308
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,920
They, they are rooted in it and 
they haven't really been outside

309
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,440
of it or lived another life. 
It's part of why you would have 

310
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,760
a Kingsguard join at such a 
young age is you're really going

311
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,080
to make sure they're like who 
that's a, that's your most 

312
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,200
formative years, you know, and 
like this is the one thing you 

313
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,280
know, is fealty duty to the king
and his family and, and giving 

314
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,119
your life for that. 
Like you start that at 8 and 10 

315
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,960
years old or whatever you're, 
you're locked in. 

316
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,480
I appreciate it kind of the 
couple other little elements of 

317
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,839
those moments where both of them
also kind of stepped away from 

318
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,720
other people that are around so 
that this sort of confrontation 

319
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,240
was kept a little more private. 
I think that that's the sort of 

320
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,920
tack that they understand is 
important. 

321
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,760
And in general that often times 
the Kingsguard minus the one or 

322
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,520
two that's being featured, 
right, like Barristan or Jamie, 

323
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,400
whoever. 
But all the rest of them are 

324
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,560
just kind of like in the 
background. 

325
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,800
They didn't really say anything.
They don't really have 

326
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,960
personalities or opinions. 
But I, I, I, in my opinion, 

327
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,320
that's probably not realistic, 
right? 

328
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,360
They probably do, it just never 
come to fruition or we don't get

329
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,160
the opportunity. 
There's enough storylines going 

330
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,200
on, but it doesn't make sense 
for them to just be droning 

331
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,520
mindless robots. 
You can't really be a good 

332
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,160
warrior and a good leader and a 
good protector without having 

333
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,560
some sense and some boldness and
its sense of responsibility. 

334
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,720
All the other things, it would 
lead to someone questioning 

335
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,840
suspicious order or a challenge 
to their honor or whatever else.

336
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,880
And so I appreciate that Eric 
and Eric got featured in that 

337
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:21,840
manner. 
Well said. 

338
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,000
Yeah. 
Barristan makes a similar point 

339
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,120
in the novels. 
He says that a Kingsguard is far

340
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,400
above a mere Guardsman or 
something like that. 

341
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,680
Because it's it isn't just 
standing guard, it's keeping 

342
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,760
their secrets. 
It's having, you know, keeping 

343
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,800
this oath and, and having this 
high standard for your behavior 

344
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,560
and being thinking about other 
types of violence, like 

345
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,920
assassinations and things that 
aren't going to just be 

346
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,600
straightforward coming at you, 
Which if the the guards standing

347
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,320
at the door are not to blame if 
someone sneaks in a secret 

348
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,080
passage and kills someone. 
But as Kristen Cole points out, 

349
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,600
everyone's going to think that 
Kingsguard failed. 

350
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,640
If that happens, no one's going 
to blame the guards. 

351
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,000
But it's the Kingsguard's job. 
Like, there isn't really 

352
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,080
excuses. 
That's one thing that Kristen 

353
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,120
kind of hammered away at, which 
was cringy but clever. 

354
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,680
It was the right thing to say to
a man that that's that's that 

355
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,920
honor and duty bound to like 
make him do this thing that that

356
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,320
he would never do otherwise. 
But let's let's let's keep with 

357
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,440
their history here. 
It seems like the Cargill Quinn 

358
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,720
started serving on the 
Kingsguard at the same time as 

359
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,800
Ryan Redwine had He had been 
there for a while. 

360
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,040
Of course, he was an old man by 
the time they probably joined, 

361
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,560
but they were already in the 
Kingsguard during the Maidenpool

362
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,520
attorney of one O 4 following 
Viserys ascension to the throne.

363
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,480
So that's really early that the 
war didn't start 26 years later 

364
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,720
and they were already in the 
Kingsguard. 

365
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,800
So book king, the book versions 
of them are definitely older, 

366
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:52,040
but so same as Kristen Cole's 
definitely older in the book, so

367
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,680
is Allison. 
So there's a lot of age changes 

368
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,960
for the adaptation, which given 
the huge amount of time and the 

369
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,360
difficulty of adapting these 
jumps in time, you got to give 

370
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,920
him some room to change some 
ages, I think, but other, but 

371
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,960
just keep that in mind. 
This is one of the things we're 

372
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,240
covering here is, is when you're
making the comparisons, just 

373
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,800
keep that, you know, be aware 
that these ages are are pretty 

374
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,920
different. 
Quick little tangent here. 

375
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,680
So there's a red one on the 
Kingsguard at the same time as 

376
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,240
Eric and Ark, right? 
And he's the Lord Commander, the

377
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,800
famous one. 
Aren't there a couple red wine 

378
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,000
twins in the the current? 
There are, yes, horror and 

379
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,400
slobber, Yeah, a horror. 
Sir Horace and Sir Harbour yes 

380
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,120
they're the they were hostages 
of the Crown for a while and not

381
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,000
anymore as of but that's 
Dragons. 

382
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,320
They both are patched of red 
wine is sitting on the council 

383
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,120
with so his kids are no longer 
hostages to to the Lannisters 

384
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:46,440
because he's joined them now. 
They're not associated with the 

385
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:47,960
King's Garden any particular way
though. 

386
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,360
Right, They want to be, but 
they're not like they both want 

387
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,840
to join to be Marjorie's 
Kingsguard. 

388
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,000
Like that's a thing that's 
happening in the background. 

389
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,600
So whether that'll actually 
happen, I don't think so 'cause 

390
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,320
I think maybe they went back to 
the Arbor or maybe one of them 

391
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,360
did. 
I'm not sure where they 

392
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:04,000
currently are. 
That's the the one thing I don't

393
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,760
have for you is their current 
whereabouts. 

394
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,840
Wherever it is, they better be 
careful what they wish for. 

395
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. 
But they one of them is the heir

396
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,360
to the Arbor, which is different
than I don't. 

397
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,360
We don't know if either of these
two were we can safely kind of 

398
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,480
safely assume they weren't 
'cause then they were get both 

399
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,520
of them were going to the 
Kingsguard with and then they 

400
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,200
have no air leftover for this 
house. 

401
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,320
You know, that seems unlikely. 
They may have just had a sister,

402
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,080
but they probably had a brother 
and he may have been an older 

403
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,680
brother, but maybe not. 
Maybe they had they and the 

404
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,320
house they. 
'D go extinct. 

405
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,800
Maybe they weren't making the 
smartest choice with their kids 

406
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,000
roles, you know? 
We've been joking that his name 

407
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,000
is Erik or I Rick, you know the 
the third Cargill brother. 

408
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,200
Yeah, this is the one with an I 
or AU. 

409
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,240
Yeah. 
Oh, Rick. 

410
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,080
Yeah. 
Richard Rick for sure. 

411
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,840
Yeah, right. 
Moving on, we have. 

412
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,720
You know, Ryan Redwine was 
arguably even more famous than 

413
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,240
Barristan in some ways. 
He had been on the Kingsguard 

414
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,200
even longer. 45 years was his 
full career in the Kingsguard. 

415
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,840
Eric and Arc might have made it 
that long themselves had they 

416
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,480
lived longer, but they were on 
track probably. 

417
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,080
And it's possible they were that
long. 

418
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,040
We don't know how old they were,
and they were, since they were 

419
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,280
definitely older in the books by
maybe as much as 10 years, maybe

420
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,080
even more than yeah, you're in 
the Kingsguard already. 

421
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,040
They're already in the 
Kingsguard 26 years before the 

422
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,600
dance in tournaments. 
So, you know, that means they're

423
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,760
probably at least like 161718, 
if not like 20. 

424
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,400
So yeah, definitely room for 
that. 

425
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,080
But we'll see. 
What else? 

426
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,280
It's lots of people. 
So they would have grown up in 

427
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,080
his he's their hero figure. 
He's the big icon that we can 

428
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,160
point to that ever was trying to
be like in that era. 

429
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,240
So they would have also been 
very close to this 'cause 

430
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,240
they're a crown lands house 
located near the cap, the 

431
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,480
Capitol, at a time when loyalty 
and devotion to House Targaryen 

432
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,720
would have been in its height, 
especially in the crown lands. 

433
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,240
It's still pretty fresh. 
They still have the Dragons. 

434
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,680
It's been peace for a while. 
The Targaryen at this point in 

435
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,320
history have a pretty good 
reputation, especially in the 

436
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,760
crown lands where the prosperity
is. 

437
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,960
They get a lot of that 
prosperity because they're so 

438
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,040
close to the center of it, 
right? 

439
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,560
They're in the crown lands where
a lot of that wealth and and 

440
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,640
power is flowing in. 
So it's a really good time to be

441
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,880
living there. 
Now, we don't really know much 

442
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,320
about House Cargill, but twin 
sons is always a big deal. 

443
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,720
Twins at all is a big deal. 
But in in knightly houses, a 

444
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,040
pair of boys at once is they're 
going to be very, very happy, 

445
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,480
thanking the gods and all that. 
And they might have been 

446
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,400
connected to court at a very 
early age. 

447
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,200
You know, if you have these boys
growing up in the shadow of 

448
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,280
knighthood of a famous knight 
and near the Red Keep, you could

449
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,360
see how they would be attached 
or notice pretty quickly if they

450
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:47,760
were talented, which they 
clearly were. 

451
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,400
They clearly had the skills and 
got noticed quickly. 

452
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,800
So yeah, they're they're 
dividing this next section into 

453
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,800
book and show versions to keep 
it straight. 

454
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,600
The first chronological mention 
of them is the year 105. 

455
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,840
Both are defeated at the tourney
by Kristen Cole. 

456
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,720
That's his kind of coming out 
where everybody notices him for 

457
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,880
the first time. 
And again, they're already in 

458
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,440
the Kingsguard by then. 
So Cole wins, is named Rainier 

459
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,600
Swarm Protector. 
Soon after that he joins the 

460
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,320
Kingsguard when to replace 
Sorayam he's the one that takes 

461
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,680
that place. 
They have their falling out, 

462
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,600
meaning Cole and Rainier. 
Soon after he becomes Lord 

463
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,160
Commander and break bones 
becomes her new protector. 

464
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,120
So think about this, you've got 
Kristen Cole as Lord Commander 

465
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,600
for about 5 to 8 years before 
things really start to go down 

466
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,400
and Eric and Arc are his 
subordinates. 

467
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,960
He was pretty rapidly pro green 
in this era and very anti rain 

468
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,040
era and pro Allison. 
It's hard for them not to have 

469
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,240
noticed that, feel that be 
affected by. 

470
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,400
That doesn't mean he swayed them
completely, but it would have 

471
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,040
been a thing and it might have 
swayed them. 

472
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,480
Real quick, I'm going to 
clarify. 

473
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,160
We're talking book version, 
yeah. 

474
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,440
This is all book version so 
forth, yeah. 

475
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,000
Can we say how long? 
Can we guess how long he was 

476
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,960
Lord Commander and the show 
version? 

477
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,640
Oh, very briefly. 
I mean, remember, he was named 

478
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,200
after Harold West Wing walked 
out. 

479
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,440
Yeah. 
So that was like, so it's been 

480
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:14,520
weeks, months. 
Yeah. 

481
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,600
Right. 
Yeah, exactly. 

482
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,800
It's a very. 
Short time, it was years so Eric

483
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,080
and Ark were would have, even if
maybe in the beginning they 

484
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,280
might have been suspicious of 
this guy coming out of nowhere 

485
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,760
getting promoted above them. 
But after years past. 

486
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,400
Yeah, he doesn't become Lord 
Commander right away. 

487
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,120
It's like 7 years if I remember 
right. 

488
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,320
Yeah 'cause it's it's when 
Harold Lesterling dies and book 

489
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,920
cannon, he just dies and Cole 
gets promoted. 

490
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,800
Whereas obviously the show 
version, Harold Lesterling just 

491
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,160
lives way longer and then just 
exit stage left and there we 

492
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,480
never see him again. 
So that's a big deal for the 

493
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,440
future and setting up Kohl's 
attitude. 

494
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,000
By the way, someone pointed out 
this out to me and something 

495
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,600
wants to talk about later. 
Does Ray Nira have any idea how 

496
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,640
much Kristen Cole still hates 
her like 20 years later? 

497
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,640
Like they haven't seen each 
other, they haven't talked or 

498
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,840
had a conversation. 
Does he? 

499
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,080
Does he have any idea how much 
hate he's caring for her? 

500
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,680
Probably not. 
I want them to have a moment 

501
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,080
where she's like, I literally 
never think of you. 

502
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,400
Yeah, yeah. 
'Cause really, like, he thinks 

503
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,080
about her a lot, you know, like 
that spider, like he uses, he's 

504
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,320
where he curses her out and 
everything. 

505
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,480
And she's like, Oh yeah, Kristen
Cole. 

506
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,560
Yeah, that dude I slept with. 
Now I'm sure she thinks about 

507
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,640
him a little bit, but like, 
yeah, it's she has no idea 

508
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,280
probably how much he hates her. 
She might think about him more 

509
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,800
if she had to pay for the rent 
in the space in his head. 

510
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Even that might be noticed on 
her queenly ledgers. 

511
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,480
Yeah, that that amount, that's a
high rent right there. 

512
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,600
A lot of space. 
So Jamie gives us great insight 

513
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,720
into what it's like serving, you
know, on a Kingsguard where your

514
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,120
oaths are wonky, they're 
conflicting. 

515
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Jamie joined the Kingsguard to 
be closer to his sister. 

516
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,520
That was their plan. 
Like join Kingsguard, you'd be 

517
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,800
close to me. 
And that backfired horribly in 

518
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,160
the short and long term, right, 
Eric and Arc, it could have been

519
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,240
the same mine as the incest, 
probably, almost certainly. 

520
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,320
But hey, no, no, I'm just 
kidding. 

521
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,080
It's pretty hard to put duty 
before family. 

522
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,120
My point is hard to put duty 
before family when your sibling 

523
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,920
is your soul mate. 
Like they're your family and the

524
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,560
person you're more, you're more 
connected to them than in family

525
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,400
normally means like, you know, 
like most brothers and sisters 

526
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,680
are not nearly as close as Jamie
and Cersei or Eric and Aric. 

527
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,440
And that's even if you take out 
the the relationship angle with 

528
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,440
Jamie and Cersei, this that 
statement still rings true. 

529
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,840
They usually would have a 
partner, but they both joined 

530
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,640
the Kingsguards, so really their
only partner in life is each 

531
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,960
other right here. 
They never have another. 

532
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:42,680
They never have a romantic 
partner. 

533
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,360
Probably not before the age of 
18. 

534
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,240
Great point, great point and in 
and in show book can we don't 

535
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:48,920
know when they joined. 
It's probably fairly young in 

536
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,600
Showcan and they joined super 
young so they definitely didn't 

537
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,680
have relationships outside. 
But what I mean is the other 

538
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,120
parallel to Jamie and Searcy is 
she encouraged him to join the 

539
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,320
Kings or he could be close to 
him. 

540
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Well it's unlikely both Eric and
Eric joined the Kingsguard at 

541
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,080
the same time. 
Like the show is smart about 

542
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,200
that. 
Like why would they just have 

543
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,320
two spots all of a sudden? 
It's not clarified in the book, 

544
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,600
but we would assume give it no 
other information. 

545
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,120
We would assume it's the same 
like maybe two Kingsguard died 

546
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:14,880
at once. 
That's not too weird, but you 

547
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,520
would expect that in a time of 
peace, someone dies, one person 

548
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,960
replaces them a a few weeks or 
years later, another person dies

549
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,280
of old age or something, or an 
accident, same deal. 

550
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,640
Maybe they get sick, but usually
it's one at a time. 

551
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,480
So Aarek would be in it and he's
like, well, my brother's there, 

552
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,680
my I want to join and he'd be 
the top candidate. 

553
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,840
If ARC was doing a good job, 
they'd be like, well, this guy 

554
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,440
who's identical to him seems 
like we should add him as well. 

555
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,480
Like what? 
Right. 

556
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,640
Like that seems really 
straightforward. 

557
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,000
Doesn't. 
It I can imagine he probably 

558
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,440
came along with his brother too 
and probably trained together 

559
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,200
and he probably trained with the
rest of the Kingsguard and they 

560
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,840
all saw how good he was and had 
the same loyalty. 

561
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,880
And I've also imagined a lot of 
times that there probably is a 

562
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,520
pool of people ready to be drawn
from for the Kingsguard, if that

563
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,760
makes sense. 
And he was maybe both of them, 

564
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,840
but certainly once one was in, 
the other would have been in 

565
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,320
that pool on the short list, you
know? 

566
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,160
There is in fact, an example of 
that that we know of. 

567
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Fireball was supposed to be 
named to the Kingsguard and when

568
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,880
he was not given the cloak, it's
it's it's, it's sad that that's 

569
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,640
part of why he was part of Damon
Blackfyre's rebellion. 

570
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,640
So yeah, pretty big deal there. 
Do you think it's possible that 

571
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,040
two slots opened on the 
Kingsguard at the same time and 

572
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,680
they they were they they did get
to enter together, or do you 

573
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,080
think that's unlikely? 
I think it's unlikely, but it's 

574
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,600
definitely possible. 
I mean, yeah, like you could 

575
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,880
have like two of them could have
been on A22 Kingsguard could 

576
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,800
have been on a ship together and
died or some sort of bandit. 

577
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,960
Robert Knight and Kurt, they 
were sent to deal with it and 

578
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,800
both of them died. 
You know, it's it's possible. 

579
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,440
It's not likely, but it's if 
there's a war, it would be a lot

580
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,240
more likely. 
But there is no war in that era.

581
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,840
So it's kind of like, yeah, you 
have fewer reasons to point to 

582
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,320
deaths by violence and and more 
reasons to look for deaths by 

583
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,600
old age and sickness. 
They're. 

584
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,240
Not like the shivers or any kind
of sickness. 

585
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,880
Shivers was too far back, but 
that's a good call. 

586
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,600
That's a good possibility. 
I like what you're thinking. 

587
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,200
You know, Shivers was like the 
60s. 

588
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,640
So yeah. 
So they were there for Amon's 

589
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,640
lost eye recall. 
That was a big deal. 

590
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,760
So they would have both in book 
and Shokan and they would have 

591
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,560
been there for that. 
And this of course is a major 

592
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,560
milestone in the blacks and 
greens conflicts and it leads to

593
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,800
the full split and war later. 
It's a one of the most important

594
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,000
early seeds of the Dance and it 
happened during a year when lots

595
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,160
of seeds were planted and 
Viserys immediately ordered them

596
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,840
to split. 
This is book only recall, but it

597
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,760
did happen in the show as well, 
just slightly different 

598
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,080
circumstances like these two 
half families can't live 

599
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,160
together. 
They're just at each other's 

600
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,320
throats. 
They're insulting each other, 

601
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,560
they're calling each other 
bastards. 

602
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,360
They're chopping each other's 
eyes out. 

603
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,480
You know you can't. 
It just isn't working. 

604
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,640
You got to separate them. 
So Viserys in book version 

605
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,560
orders Rainier and her children 
to stay on Dragonstone while 

606
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,120
Allison and hers live in King's 
Landing. 

607
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,520
And this is when there's some 
accusations and stuff. 

608
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,720
And Break Bones is sent back to 
Harrenhal. 

609
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,240
That's when he dies quickly with
his father. 

610
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:15,480
But the point here is that Eric 
is sent to replace break bones 

611
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,840
as Rainier's protector. 
So the the in in a 30 year span 

612
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,560
or 25 year span or no, it's 15 
years span. 

613
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,200
I'm sorry, it goes Kristen Cole 
then break bones and then Sir 

614
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,600
Eric. 
So Sir Eric in the year 120, a 

615
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,680
full 10 years before the war 
breaks out is living a 

616
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,400
Dragonstone. 
Pretty big difference from the 

617
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,960
show. 
He's he and Eric live apart for 

618
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,520
a good decade and just naturally
grow close to the faction that 

619
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,720
they've been set with. 
So when the coup occurs, Sir 

620
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,360
Eric is just ordered to go wake 
people up by christening, summon

621
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:49,800
the council. 
We've got a meeting. 

622
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,640
And the next thing you know, 
they've stolen the the crown. 

623
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,400
And what's he going to do? 
Like one King's Guard by 

624
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,360
himself? 
Actually, yes, Sir Stefan 

625
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,040
Darkland defects, steals the 
crown for rain for right here 

626
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,000
and goes to Dragonstone. 
But Eric wasn't in the council 

627
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,680
chamber for the coup discussion,
right? 

628
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,440
Neither was Aegon himself. 
In the show we see Eric assigned

629
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,040
to Aegon specifically quite 
often. 

630
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,400
That's for quite possibly that's
the case in books as well. 

631
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,360
Now, there were of course 
attempts to resolve things 

632
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,160
peacefully prior to the outpack 
of war in both book and show. 

633
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,520
In the book version it was Grand
Maester Orwell going by himself 

634
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,360
to lead a delegation without 
Otto, and the show version had 

635
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,240
Otto. 
Supposedly it's the last time 

636
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,840
the twins saw each other before 
their fight to the death, and we

637
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,280
get a great quote from Fire and 
Blood here about it. 

638
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Long after the dance was done, 
the singer Lucian of Tarth would

639
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,360
compose a sad ballad called 
Farewell, My Brother, still sung

640
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,320
today. 
The song purports to relate the 

641
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,880
last meeting between SER Aurek 
Cargile and his twin, SER 

642
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,600
Ehrich. 
As Orwell's party was boarding 

643
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,240
the ship that would carry them 
back to King's Landing. 

644
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,160
SER Aurek had sworn his sword to
Aegon, SER Ehrich to Rainiera. 

645
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,800
In the song, each brother tries 
to persuade the other to change 

646
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,840
sides. 
Failing, they exchange 

647
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,760
declarations of love and part, 
knowing that when next they meet

648
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,960
it will be as enemies. 
The singer, of course, took out,

649
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,640
took note of how took note. 
See what I said there, how 

650
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,480
perfect the twins were in 
symbolizing the tragedy of this 

651
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,120
war. 
Like you said it, Sean, they 

652
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,600
encapsulate the war in the 
world. 

653
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,920
They people recognize that too. 
It's so poignant and noticeable 

654
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,400
if you are aware of the history 
or maybe lived through it, that.

655
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,240
Yeah. 
What what's sadder than their 

656
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,440
duty causing them to fight each 
other, who they would have been?

657
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,040
Love. 
It's it's love is the death of 

658
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,560
duty concept, which we'll we'll 
discuss a little more later. 

659
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,680
But yeah, let me hear from you 
on this. 

660
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,080
This is, this is the heart of 
it, isn't it? 

661
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,440
Yeah, I it was like a strong 
thought stirring. 

662
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,720
I mean, when we did our last 
podcast, it has only been 

663
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,800
reinforced the idea that they, 
it's, it's like, you know, when 

664
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,440
you do those parallel lives, you
know, when you say like, you 

665
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,760
know, four or five bullet points
and it could, but it could apply

666
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,400
to multiple different people. 
You know, I, I feel like you 

667
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,560
could describe the relationship 
between Eric and Eric and these 

668
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,320
bullet points that are also 
describing the relationship 

669
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,560
between the greens and the 
blacks. 

670
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,960
You know, if they're just a 
microcosm of everything that's 

671
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,000
happening, that there, there, 
there isn't a clear. 

672
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:27,320
Neither one of them is obviously
right or wrong. 

673
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,840
Both of them are aligned with 
sides that have good and bad 

674
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,880
parts. 
They're both torn by their 

675
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,239
duties. 
They from a distance, they look 

676
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,199
the same. 
Up close they look the same even

677
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:39,760
but. 
Incomplete information, I 

678
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,520
suppose. 
They're both operating on, yeah.

679
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, you could say it all like 

680
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,880
it's great. 
Damon and Amon, they care. 

681
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,400
About each other despite being 
opposed to each other, they. 

682
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,280
They love each other and see 
each other. 

683
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,400
Yeah, it's like that's pending 
for the black. 

684
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,320
Right. 
They love each other and think 

685
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,240
of each other as traitors. 
It's a really hard thing to like

686
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:00,720
they. 
They grew up together. 

687
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,080
Mind that, yeah, they grew up 
together. 

688
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,960
Oh, that's a great point, yes. 
On and on. 

689
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,640
Yeah, Yeah. 
It's, it really is like a 

690
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,360
mirror. 
They see themselves, but they 

691
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,320
see the things that they don't 
like about each other as well. 

692
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,920
We mentioned on Monday as well, 
I'll mention it briefly again 

693
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,360
here that the song the Stark 
theme is called Goodbye Brother 

694
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,640
and this is Farewell my brother.
But technically this came after 

695
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,480
because it was it's this is not 
in the world of ice and fire. 

696
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,360
I don't think it's only in fire 
and blood, which means it was 

697
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,200
written in 2018 ish 2016 
seventeen maybe and goodbye 

698
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,960
brother, the Stark theme was 
written in like 2011. 

699
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,160
So yeah. 
And then, you know, the real 

700
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,720
world chronology doesn't always 
line up with the in world 

701
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:40,720
chronology. 
Let's talk real differently real

702
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:42,080
quickly. 
It was with the show version. 

703
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,920
Some of the differences here of 
the two characters, almost 

704
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,280
everyone's ages are changed. 
Like I said, Cole, Eric, Archer,

705
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,960
all younger. 
I would guess the best number to

706
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,360
throw is about 10 years younger 
for pretty much all of them. 

707
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,760
And whereas Rainier is made a 
little bit older and yeah, they 

708
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,240
just all a little closer 
together. 

709
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,800
I think I read somewhere Ryan 
Condell, someone was asking him 

710
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,080
something. 
It might have been like, where's

711
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,000
Maillor? 
You know, they were asking for 

712
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,120
for something to be explained. 
And he's like, well, we condense

713
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,480
30 years, 20 years and so that's
that's going to explain some of 

714
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,120
these time and age differences. 
And so you saying 10 years lines

715
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,520
up with his 30 to 20 year 
condensation? 

716
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:21,680
Perfect. 
I haven't actually heard him say

717
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,160
that. 
That's great. 

718
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,120
That does make a lot of sense in
what they were going for. 

719
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,840
They're like, yeah, 30 years is 
so difficult. 

720
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,240
It's narrowed down to 20. 
That does make a lot of sense. 

721
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,240
So the actors, Luke and Elliott 
Tittensaur were 35 during season

722
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,120
2. 
I assume they were 33 during 

723
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,920
season one two years prior, but 
that gives you an idea of shows 

724
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,480
you they're about 10 years 
younger than and the actors even

725
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,440
were about you'll be. 
Shocked when you learn that they

726
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,880
were just 22 during this filming
of season. 1. 

727
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:48,400
It. 
Was summer. 

728
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,680
Really. 
Condensed those years. 

729
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,240
About an hour that's that's a 
did a better job, more 

730
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:55,320
impressive job than I thought 
they actually could. 

731
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Did real time travel and 
condensing. 

732
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,080
This is impressive. 
The things they can do on screen

733
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,720
these days. 
It's really impressive. 

734
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:05,120
That Dome, what's it called? 
What's that? 

735
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,880
Yeah. 
The volume, yeah, it's it time 

736
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,880
travels as well. 
So the show has them joining at 

737
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,280
8:00 and 10:00, which is really,
really young. 

738
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,040
It's kind of hard to understand.
It's, it definitely violates 

739
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,840
book cannon. 
You know, not, not a big deal, 

740
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,560
but the youngest knight in book 
cannon is age 12. 

741
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,400
That was Damon Blackfyre. 
And he comes later than that. 

742
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,520
So you, you can't, this one 
doesn't fit to book cannon, but 

743
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,600
that's OK. 
I, I, I can explain it. 

744
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,760
I guess I kind of already have 
you bring them in really early. 

745
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,360
You're sacrificing some short 
term security for long term 

746
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,920
loyalty. 
So they're, they're not as good 

747
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,080
those first few years, but then 
the rest of their whole lives, 

748
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,720
which might be 40 years, they're
hyper loyal, hyper defined, No, 

749
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:48,160
no other life. 
Again, your most formative 

750
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,960
years. 
And it's a time of peace. 

751
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,320
So it's a, it's a reasonable 
time to take that risk. 

752
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,800
So I, I'm OK with that change. 
You know, I generally prefer 

753
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,200
them not to make changes when 
it's not necessary, but if 

754
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,360
they're going to make a change, 
it's way better for it to fit 

755
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,880
well than it just to be kind of 
sloppy and thrown around, which 

756
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,520
this one's, this one fits, so 
I'm cool with it. 

757
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,800
I don't think that they joined 
separately at age 8 and ages 10.

758
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,160
I think they joined together at 
18. 

759
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,560
I think that's what he means 
when he says. 1810, yeah, 

760
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:20,560
that's. 
That's eight and 10. 

761
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,160
The way they speak. 
I'm so sorry. 

762
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:24,600
That's just the way they say. 
18-8 and 10. 

763
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,800
They both joined at. 18 Man, 
you're so right. 

764
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,040
I, I I did not know if you were 
saying that. 

765
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,480
Mistake people were way making. 
When Eric says I swear toward 

766
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,520
the Queen, it's like you're 
twining toward her like at her. 

767
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,400
There's like nobody say to ward,
like I will ward her like from 

768
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,640
danger. 
Ward her from danger. 

769
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,600
It's like, Oh yeah. 
So this is twice I've heard Eric

770
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,000
wrong because both times it was 
Eric, not Eric. 

771
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,560
So anyway, that's amazing. 
OK, good. 

772
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,240
So it's not. 
The point still stands in a lot 

773
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,520
of ways, but I I I made the 
same. 

774
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:59,160
Had the same confusion the first
time and out of probably the 

775
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,200
second third time also. 
But. 

776
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,800
So I don't have to explain this,
it's just they joined at a 

777
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,120
perfectly cromulent age. 
Wondering why you thought it was

778
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,320
so young. 
I was like, I guess it's a 

779
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:07,680
little young. 
I don't know. 

780
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,200
Yeah, I keep. 
Saying 8:00 and 10:00 and you're

781
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,680
still hearing 18 when I say 
that. 

782
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:11,760
Yeah, every time. 
I know. 

783
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,120
And I'm. 
Saying 8 for one of them and 10 

784
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,560
for the other. 
Oh, that's hilarious. 

785
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,960
OK, Well moving on because we. 
Didn't talk about like if or how

786
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,440
far apart they might have joined
too. 

787
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,080
So in showcan at least. 
In in Showcan they joined at the

788
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,160
same time. 
So yeah, within a year within 

789
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,840
yeah, you're right, it might not
have been the same time. 

790
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,280
It was both when they were 18, 
which implies the same time, but

791
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,760
but you're right, it doesn't 
have to 'cause it could have 

792
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,360
been up to 11 months and 29 days
apart. 

793
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,600
So that's, that's really funny. 
I should have caught that. 

794
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,680
I'm glad you all did. 
Like they 8 and 10 they've 

795
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:46,600
that's the how it's said all the
time. 

796
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,920
Like of course, why would they 
have an 8 year old kings card? 

797
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,600
No, I I I think my explanation 
was actually decent, but it's 

798
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,400
clearly unnecessary and and not 
out of place. 

799
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,000
I really can't believe you 
thought an 8 year old boy joined

800
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,760
the King's card. 
I can't believe a 12 year old 

801
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,000
boy Trent joined the King's 
card. 

802
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,560
Well, he. 
Didn't he was just a knight, but

803
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,080
he still he was he still that 
was he was incredible at 12. 

804
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,800
But yeah, anyway, so let's move 
on from there then. 

805
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,200
So the early fundamentals are in
place and similar. 

806
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,760
Like although the show set up 
and the book set up, yeah, you 

807
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,200
condense the change, the amount 
of time you you have some set 

808
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,440
up. 
They're not super different. 

809
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,880
The main difference is that Eric
wasn't sent to Dragonstone 10 

810
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,960
years ahead. 
He but he does spend more time 

811
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,360
with Aegon. 
He's directly with Aegon a lot, 

812
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,600
which why is why he gets 
disillusioned, because he's 

813
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,840
directly sees Aegon's behavior 
all the time, whereas his 

814
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,840
brother doesn't. 
So the disillusionment isn't 

815
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,000
there. 
So when the time comes, he just 

816
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,720
loses heart. 
Remember that they're chasing 

817
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,000
Aegon and he just walks away. 
He's just had it. 

818
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,760
That's a really major moment for
a guy that's been a Kingsguard 

819
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,680
his whole life. 
Just be like, I'm done, I've had

820
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:53,600
it. 
And so walk away from his 

821
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,760
brother too is pretty, pretty 
big deal. 

822
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,400
He does, to be fair. 
Of course, he doesn't just walk 

823
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,520
away. 
Then, without prior saying 

824
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,560
anything, he tried to convince 
his brother of Aegon's vadnais 

825
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,040
or unfitness to rule, which 
Aegon himself even agreed with 

826
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,960
in that scene. 
He's like, I'm not. 

827
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,520
I don't know what to be the 
king. 

828
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,320
Yeah. 
So I feel like this gives the 

829
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,200
Watchers a little more visceral 
reason for the split. 

830
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,320
It would be a lot harder to keep
track of these twins if they're 

831
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,880
separated that far. 
Go. 

832
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:24,080
You want to make sure you know 
who they are. 

833
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,400
You're getting ready to have 
this big moment. 

834
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,320
You need to introduce them and 
have them on screen and set up a

835
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,920
little conflict before they kill
each other. 

836
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,240
And that's done differently in a
history book where you could 

837
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,040
talk about the song 10 years 
later. 

838
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,960
You know, they can't they can't 
jump ahead in the show to talk 

839
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,600
about, well, guess what? 
These guys are going to be 

840
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,960
remembered fondly, you know, for
the next 170 years. 

841
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,520
Stay tuned. 
You know, like that, that won't 

842
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,600
work. 
So already you can see where in 

843
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,400
the history book it doesn't fit.
Like it doesn't doesn't work. 

844
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,880
You know, like that part of the 
adaptation couldn't work, just 

845
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,480
telling the story, like saying 
how well these guys are 

846
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,560
remembered later. 
You know, I'd love it if we 

847
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,440
heard it in a night of the Seven
Kingdoms in a hedge night, 

848
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,560
wouldn't you? 
Yeah, I hope. 

849
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,640
Yeah. 
I hope so too. 

850
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,840
And real briefly, they're gonna 
'cause they're gonna have to 

851
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,840
change some things about that 
too, 'cause that's the Hedge 

852
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,560
Knight was written before a lot 
of the world building was 

853
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:12,920
flushed. 
Like we've we've gone on at 

854
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,840
length before about how there's 
just the black fires are just 

855
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,880
missing from from that. 
And you can explain that, but 

856
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,560
it's good to change that. 
But anyway, let's let's stick 

857
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,160
with this. 
So from the show, from that 

858
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,960
point, he take Eric takes up the
role of Stefan Darkland. 

859
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,080
He's the Kingsguard that's there
when the council splits and he 

860
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,320
leaves with the crown instead of
Stefan Darkland doing that. 

861
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,920
Eric does that in the show and 
it's that very moving, I swear, 

862
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,920
toward the queen scene, which 
again, is really important for 

863
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,480
making sure we know who these 
guys are and seeing their split 

864
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,120
right at the end of the season. 
Only two, even though it's two 

865
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,840
years, it's two only two 
episodes before their final, 

866
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,880
final duel. 
As it turns out, the show also 

867
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,520
has that delegation that I 
described with Orwell, but it's 

868
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,600
auto leading instead. 
The twins are both there in that

869
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,480
moment too, if I recall 
correctly, but they wouldn't 

870
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,160
have had a chance to speak 
because it's like they're almost

871
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,680
threatening with each other. 
And Rainier is finally like, all

872
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,520
right, go. 
You'll have my answer in a day. 

873
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,920
So when are they going to have a
chance to talk? 

874
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,880
They kind of are shuffle off 
there. 

875
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,280
Hard to say. 
OK, let's take a quick five 

876
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,200
here. 
One actually won't even be 5. 

877
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,680
But if you all are enjoying our 
coverage this season, make sure 

878
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,480
you join us over on Patreon. 
We've got lots more bonus 

879
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,680
episodes for you. 
Lots of stuff over there. 

880
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,080
We've got our nicknames, we've 
got access to our scripts, We've

881
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,560
got some behind the scenes stuff
and voting in our polls. 

882
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,320
We do lots of stuff over there 
on our Patreon and it's the best

883
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,480
way to support us. 
We are not a big enough show to 

884
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,400
get big name sponsors. 
We do occasionally get one here 

885
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,320
or there, but most episodes we 
mostly just have our network ads

886
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,040
in there. 
But Speaking of those, if you 

887
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,840
join on Patreon, you get to 
listen to the audio only 

888
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,320
versions without those network 
ads. 

889
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,560
So saves you a little time get 
through the episodes a little 

890
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,960
faster without the stuff that 
you least like hearing. 

891
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,440
And yeah, lots of good stuff 
over there. 

892
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,440
Just check it out at 
historyofwesteros.com is our 

893
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,920
website and you can find links 
to everything We have all the 

894
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,560
different ways to support the 
show, all of our sponsors, all 

895
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,160
the ways to find our different 
episodes. 

896
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,160
It's the hub. 
It's not fancy, but it's got 

897
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,280
everything there. 
And you can also find links to 

898
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,320
Patreon like I said. 
Or just go straight to 

899
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:28,200
patreon.com/history of Westeros 
directly and skip the website 

900
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,160
part if you so desire. 
By the way, Aziz, which shirt 

901
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,960
are you wearing? 
Oh yeah, I'm wearing a Fox and 

902
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,440
Brambles shirt. 
Fox and Brambles link is in the 

903
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,640
description. 
You can, as it is in almost 

904
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,600
every episode we've made the 
last several years. 

905
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,360
It is a Kingsguard shirt. 
It says we do not flee. 

906
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,720
I see that you have a some sort 
of is that a Pink Floyd shirt? 

907
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,760
Yeah, it's a reference to Pink 
Floyd, but instead of a a ray of

908
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,080
light splitting to a spectrum, 
it's a piece of chalk splitting 

909
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,080
into crayons of the different. 
Teacher, leave those kids alone.

910
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:05,720
Let them play with their chalk. 
The goose versus the dragon is 

911
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:08,680
our next section. 
Twins are often compared to 

912
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,800
mirror images for obvious enough
reasons. 

913
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,240
This photo that's been going 
around that I used for a tweet 

914
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:17,000
recently has the two staring at 
each other. 

915
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,880
It could easily have been just 
one of them mirror image with 

916
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,320
the other, but since we know 
they're both real people and not

917
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,640
one twin playing both roles, 
it's probably both them anyway. 

918
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,760
Their duel to the death was 
prophesied in the show by Queen 

919
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,040
Helena using their house sigil 
as a clue. 

920
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,960
We've got some of her drawings 
here that's been that have been 

921
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,560
released that I hope the show 
gets into a little more detail 

922
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,880
with some of this. 
We're not going to see specific 

923
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,120
drawings like this one probably,
but I imagine there'll be more 

924
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,360
things in the background and 
hopefully some more discussion 

925
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,680
with other characters maybe 
figuring out what's going on 

926
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,840
here. 
The line is the goose kills its 

927
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:58,520
reflection and both die. 
That's pretty straightforward. 

928
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,280
They're the goose sigil, right? 
So if anyone had been looking at

929
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:02,960
her books, they might have seen 
that. 

930
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,480
And if they knew she was a 
prophet, they could maybe figure

931
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,880
that out by sigils. 
Sigils are are always a clue. 

932
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,600
The animal involved is just look
at the sigil. 

933
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,360
Like who is that? 
And like what animals involved? 

934
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,960
What houses have that sigil? 
There's your answer. 

935
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,840
At least you have a a small 
range of answers to pick from. 

936
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,720
Prophecy in the in an air, in a 
realm with sigils is just so 

937
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:25,680
much easier. 
What would anyone have done 

938
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,640
differently, though, You know? 
Yeah, right. 

939
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:28,800
Yeah. 
Exactly. 

940
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,720
I don't know. 
I don't know what they would 

941
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:32,000
have done differently. 
Yeah, that's a good point. 

942
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,360
So yeah, like you said, some of 
the other mirror qualities, 

943
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,000
there's both sides have an 
Aegon, you know, there's Aegon 

944
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,560
the King, and then Rainier is 
Aegon Rainier and Damon's Aegon.

945
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:49,480
Aemond is just the name Amon 
with AD at the end, and Damon is

946
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,120
the name Amon with AD at the 
front. 

947
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:53,360
They're fighting over where the 
D goes. 

948
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,120
Don't pay dirty minds. 
Don't think. 

949
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,000
Yeah, let your mind go where you
want. 

950
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,760
That's funny. 
And like you said too, the the 

951
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,760
Dance is House Targaryen killing
itself. 

952
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,600
So yeah, it's all these 
parallels are are wonderful. 

953
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,720
Not to mention the 
aforementioned servant of the 

954
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:13,160
mirror shield who literally used
a mirror to do that trick on a 

955
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,360
dragon to make it think. 
It's like, I don't know why the 

956
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,760
dragon would be fooled by this. 
It's like, oh, another dragon 

957
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,280
that looks like me. 
I don't care. 

958
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,440
Why would the dragon just be 
like, oh, I don't care another 

959
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,520
Dragon's coming at me. 
It's just because it looks like 

960
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:26,160
me. 
I don't care. 

961
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,720
If it didn't look like me, I 
would roar and but it looks 

962
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,400
exactly like me, so I will I 
will go back to sleep and you 

963
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,200
can stab me in the eye like 
that. 

964
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,480
Legend has all kinds of issues, 
doesn't it? 

965
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,080
But supposedly we're and it'd be
interesting to see if the show 

966
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,120
does this. 
Someone named Byron Swan 

967
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,280
apparently tried this in the 
dance to one of the Dragons, and

968
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,560
I'm not trying to avoid 
spoilers. 

969
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,840
Sean, Tyrion and Halden debate 
which dragon it happened to 

970
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,280
which dragon or this guy tried 
to do it to. 

971
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,000
You could, as you can tell by my
this is not a good plan. 

972
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,200
Yeah, it didn't work for this 
guy either, but apparently he 

973
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,680
may have even tried the mirror 
shield thing to one of the one 

974
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,280
of the Dragons during the dance,
which is pretty wild to think 

975
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,080
about. 
Don't take legends and miss 

976
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:13,200
literally folks. 
By the way, the answer to where 

977
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,400
the D goes is keep it in the 
family. 

978
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,040
For this family, it really is. 
Dang, you're right. 

979
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,200
Wow. 
So let's go through some other 

980
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,560
mentions in The Song of Ice and 
Fire before we get to the actual

981
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,160
duel itself, because these are 
people remembering the duel. 

982
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,040
And hey, since again, we're 
covering it from this 

983
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,240
perspective, we can go forward 
before we go back, unlike the TV

984
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:39,800
show's presentation. 
So here's a series of mentions 

985
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,080
and quotes that I think you all 
will find very entertaining. 

986
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,200
Bran, of course, loves those 
stories of knighthood, but 

987
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,720
obviously he's not the only one 
in his family who loves stories 

988
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:52,000
of knighthood. 
Of course, Sansa is big on those

989
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,600
as well. 
Here is Tyrion 9, the Clash of 

990
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,200
Kings, Sansa speaking to Joffrey
quote. 

991
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,800
Princess aren't supposed to cry.
Prince Eamon, the Dragon Knight,

992
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,280
cried the day Princess Nerys wed
his brother Aegon, Sansa Stark 

993
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,880
said, and the twins, SER Arik 
and SER Eric, died with tears on

994
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,840
their cheeks after each had 
given the other a mortal wound. 

995
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,440
Joffrey's response is half 
funny, half scary. 

996
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,560
He says shut up or I'll have Sir
Marin give you a mortal wound. 

997
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,880
It's like, no, you it's it's 
that's why it's kind of funny 

998
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,520
because it's the no, you joke 
like you are. 

999
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,320
No, you are. 
Yeah. 

1000
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,560
So that's twice now that the 
twins are mentioned alongside 

1001
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,240
specifically Prince Eamon, the 
dragon Knight, who is arguably 

1002
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:35,960
the most famous knight of all 
time. 

1003
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,600
Nina points out this is a great 
example of Sansa using her very 

1004
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,240
deep knowledge of chivalric 
stories to her benefit. 

1005
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:46,720
So she doesn't idealize Joffrey 
by comparing herself to him and 

1006
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:49,640
Nerys and Eamon, which she used 
to do the previous. 

1007
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,280
This is a clash of kings. 
She's already learned at least 

1008
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:52,880
that much. 
This is part way through her 

1009
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,640
growing up in the presence of 
this monster. 

1010
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,960
Sansa is correcting Joffrey 
through the power of song and 

1011
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,280
story. 
She's like, no, everybody knows 

1012
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,840
this story. 
She can't just say no Princess 

1013
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,960
can cry. 
She has to use a famous. 

1014
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,080
This famous example backs her 
up. 

1015
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,360
It's not her opinion. 
It's the opinion of this very 

1016
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,440
famous legend that no one can 
dispute. 

1017
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,760
So Joffrey's only answer is, 
that's why it's so petulant. 

1018
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,920
He's like, well, I'll shut up. 
We're all yeah, but I'll have 

1019
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:17,800
him warm to you. 
Yeah. 

1020
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,880
Right, so Sansa didn't decide 
that the bravest leader should 

1021
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,480
leave from the vanguard. 
Everyone knows the bravest 

1022
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,080
leader should leave from the 
vanguard. 

1023
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,640
Love it, love it. 
Yes, very true and from a very 

1024
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,280
real perspective, tears are not 
weakness. 

1025
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,440
Some of the bravest hero figures
of all time in world or our own 

1026
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,480
have wept right? 
Like George gives us the 

1027
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,920
Carthene. 
That's the whole culture that 

1028
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,400
thinks crying is totally fine if
not encouraged. 

1029
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,800
And Achilles, a good example of 
a heroic figure I've mentioned 

1030
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,440
plenty of times in the history 
of this show. 

1031
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,960
He was a crier, he was a weeper,
right? 

1032
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,040
No one doubted his bravery. 
But it isn't just kids like Bran

1033
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,360
and Sansa who know the stories. 
Cersei, again a twin herself, 

1034
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,720
mentions them here. 
Quote. 

1035
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,240
Grin all you wish Sarah Braun, 
you'll be screaming soon enough.

1036
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:08,600
Enjoy your lacquet lady, and 
your stolen castle whilst you 

1037
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,600
can. 
When the time comes, I shall 

1038
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,640
swat at you as if you were a 
family. 

1039
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,480
Perhaps she would send Laura's 
Tyrell to do the swatting. 

1040
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,080
If the night of Flowers should 
somehow return alive from 

1041
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,320
Dragonstone, that would be 
delicious. 

1042
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,200
If the gods were good, each of 
them would kill the other like 

1043
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:35,360
Sir Eric and Sir Eric. 
Can I say what I hear here is 

1044
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,280
the bit in Always Sunny in 
Philadelphia where Dee or 

1045
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,960
Caitlin Olsen as being arch. 
That's how I hear this delivery 

1046
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,320
in my head is we're getting like
more and more arch of of 

1047
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,320
delivery just over the top. 
She had a mustache. 

1048
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,760
She'd be twirling in it. 
I'm hearing it now. 

1049
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,720
Like the way you delivered it. 
Yeah, I can sort of hear that. 

1050
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:55,560
I didn't know you were doing D, 
but it fits now. 

1051
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,200
I was. 
Trying to dial it back and not. 

1052
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:58,440
Do that. 
I just can't help it. 

1053
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,400
This is this is how you hear it 
in your head. 

1054
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,480
You just have to act it out that
way. 

1055
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,160
Yeah. 
So Nina points out the irony 

1056
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,120
here being that the historical 
Eric and Eric killed each other 

1057
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,640
on Dragonstone, while Sir see 
dreams of Lords coming back from

1058
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,280
Dragonstone to kill Braun. 
And of course, given that Cersei

1059
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,920
bears some similarities to 
Rainiera, there's also an irony 

1060
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,080
in Cersei thinking she would 
send to Kingsguard to kill 

1061
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,800
another knight since Aegon sent 
Sir Eric against Rainiera. 

1062
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,280
And it's like, this is not what 
the Kingsguard is supposed to be

1063
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:27,640
for. 
It's like someone who just kind 

1064
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:33,800
of abuses the honor of that roll
like they're supposed to be the 

1065
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,320
finest Knights in the realm and 
the finest Knights in the realm 

1066
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,240
do are are dutiful, honorable, 
loyal, but they do not, as Sir 

1067
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:46,160
Eric said, traffic in deception 
or murder like that, which like 

1068
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,320
this, this sullies all of them. 
Like Kristen called the point 

1069
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:49,920
Kristen was making like this 
sullies all of us. 

1070
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,480
He went sullied the more by his 
his response to them being 

1071
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,400
sullied was further sullied. 
But hey, it's still it's it's a 

1072
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,280
it's a it's a sore spot. 
It's a real thing that their 

1073
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,000
their image. 
You know, when we talked about a

1074
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,760
Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and
Dunkin Egg and the nature of 

1075
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,640
like, what are the vowels of a 
knight? 

1076
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,680
What is the wording in it that 
it might even be different from 

1077
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,120
night to night time period to 
time period, different locations

1078
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,200
or whatever. 
Clearly there is a a a different

1079
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,280
level up vowel for the King's 
Guard that I also don't think we

1080
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,720
exactly know, but we have gotten
a couple clues to it here that 

1081
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:35,080
it's to the whole family and it 
on some level they're supposed 

1082
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,480
to be forthright in their 
defense, not use subterfuge. 

1083
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,040
So interesting little pieces to 
the puzzle that we might get all

1084
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,120
together when we're going to 
wonder about this forever. 

1085
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,240
And then one day we're just 
going to George is going to give

1086
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:51,760
us the one paragraph exact 
Kingsguard, which I'll be happy 

1087
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:52,920
with. 
I'll be happy with the mystery 

1088
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:53,280
be. 
Solved. 

1089
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:54,640
If we get it, we get it. 
Yeah, that'd be cool. 

1090
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,800
So we're moving our way up the 
age groups here, which shows us 

1091
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,480
how Sir Eric, Sir Arak are part 
of like every generation. 

1092
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:07,800
We had Bran, Sansa, then Cersei 
and here we have from a Dowager 

1093
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,040
Queen to the Queen of Thorns 
quote. 

1094
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,520
Outside its tall carved doors 
stood 2 guards in gilded half 

1095
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,200
Helms and green cloaks edged in 
gold satin, the golden rows of 

1096
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,320
high garden sewn on their 
breasts. 

1097
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,720
Both were seven footers, wide of
shoulder and narrow of waist, 

1098
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,520
magnificently muscled. 
When Sansa got close enough to 

1099
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,680
see their faces, she could not 
tell one from the other. 

1100
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:43,080
They had the same strong jaws, 
same deep blue eyes, same thick 

1101
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,840
red mustaches. 
Who are they? 

1102
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,760
She asked Sir Loras, her 
discomfit forgotten for a 

1103
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,160
moment. 
My grandmothers personal guard. 

1104
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,440
He told her their mother named 
them Eric and Aurek, but 

1105
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,240
grandmother can't tell them 
apart so she calls them left and

1106
00:54:58,240 --> 00:54:59,920
right. 
Interesting that Sir Loris is 

1107
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:03,080
part of both of these last two 
quotes, kind of how Eamon the 

1108
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:04,600
Dragon Knight was part of the 
two previous. 

1109
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:05,640
Yeah. 
So he's just these interesting 

1110
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,000
tie INS. 
He's entered characters that are

1111
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,720
associated with each other. 
And this kind of funny sense is 

1112
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:12,040
kind of like the equivalent 
here. 

1113
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,520
She's kind of like at at a photo
shoot for her favorite boy band.

1114
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,640
Like, there's these two very 
handsome 7 footers. 

1115
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,880
There's Sir Lores. 
She's just like, oh, this is I'm

1116
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,920
surrounded by songs and stories 
like Eric and Eric, and they're 

1117
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,200
handsome and I'm with Sir. 
Yeah. 

1118
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,960
Like she's just over the moon in
that moment there, her 

1119
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,360
discomfort forgotten for a 
moment, as it says. 

1120
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,120
Do we know or is there a theory 
as to what house these guys are 

1121
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,200
from? 
They are common born. 

1122
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,200
As far as we know, they're not 
part of any house, so maybe 

1123
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,200
they're they're household 
Knights of the Tyrells. 

1124
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,960
They're wearing Tyrell garb, so 
there's no house to identify 

1125
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,480
them with. 
I kind of see them as maybe red 

1126
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:55,480
wines because the red hair and 
then the red hair is is red wine

1127
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,440
trait, so I don't. 
Know interesting it's certainly 

1128
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,840
not mentioned I think you would 
hear about them if they were red

1129
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:01,560
wine, but I. 
Mean red wine men, like how 

1130
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,800
you're saying like they're from 
the Tyrell men like they're from

1131
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,920
the harbor, like they're local. 
I see red hair runs on the 

1132
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,520
harbor. 
You're not saying they're actual

1133
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:09,640
red? 
Yeah, I see. 

1134
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,120
Yeah, yeah, that's certainly 
possible. 

1135
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,160
Maybe some Dunk the Lunk 
heritage in there. 

1136
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,360
You never know 7 footers, anyone
that tall, it's you got to 

1137
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,360
consider it right? 
And magnificently muscled. 

1138
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,120
Magnificently muscled. 
What was it that that Cersei 

1139
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,440
said about Robert when he was 
younger? 

1140
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:31,080
Muscled like a maiden's fantasy.
That's the sense of maiden's 

1141
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,440
fantasy right here. 
So I'm not sure we're supposed 

1142
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,080
to read much into these two 
twins in terms in terms of them 

1143
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:41,320
like turning on each other, like
reenacting the twins fight. 

1144
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,720
I kind of doubt that's hard to 
imagine that they're just her 

1145
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:46,880
guards. 
They're not like what would turn

1146
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,640
them against each other. 
It's hard to imagine that. 

1147
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,560
But it's more made perhaps a 
statement on how their legend 

1148
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:59,240
has become such a big part of 
the culture that you have two 

1149
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:02,040
male twins. 
You consider naming them Mark 

1150
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,000
and Eric and you're like, let's 
see, we are they worthy of that?

1151
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,160
You know, you don't go with, you
know, I don't know what other 

1152
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:15,360
some names the phrase have just 
going naming after other 

1153
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,880
people's families, right. 
They have a there's a Rhaegar 

1154
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,640
Fray and an Aegon fray, but 
there's also a Tywin Fray and a 

1155
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:23,920
Jamie Fray. 
Those are twins right there. 

1156
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,240
Tywin and Jamie fray are twins. 
In fact, it's another pair of A 

1157
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,480
Song of Ice and Fire twins. 
So yeah, now of course they 

1158
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:31,480
haven't been forgotten in the 
Reach. 

1159
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:32,560
I mean, they're remembered 
everywhere. 

1160
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,800
We got the Northerners 
remembering them, we got Cersei 

1161
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,840
thinking about them. 
We got Reach, of course the 

1162
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,000
Reach 'cause they're the heart 
of chivalry, at least according 

1163
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,800
to them. 
The Veil might argue with that, 

1164
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,920
but the, the twins aren't 
actually from the Reach. 

1165
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,680
These two are, but not the not 
our subjects, the Cargill twins.

1166
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,000
Cause again, that's the crown 
lands. 

1167
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,600
So their lives are worth 
exploring. 

1168
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,560
That's how they remember. 
Let's talk about the actual duel

1169
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,600
that had so much to do with why 
they're remembered by all these 

1170
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,480
characters. 
The book version gave us a lot 

1171
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,360
more history and back story on 
them. 

1172
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,200
The show version gives us a lot 
more detail on how the actual 

1173
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,120
dual and mission went and the 
action and their death and all 

1174
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,040
that. 
But we got some from both. 

1175
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,680
So here's some combo book and 
show content for you. 

1176
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,520
In both book and show, the death
of Prince J Harris is the 

1177
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,640
trigger, and in both cases it is
Kristen Cole's idea suggested 

1178
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,960
directly King Aegon in the show.
It's part of why he's made hand.

1179
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,320
In the books it's listed as 
basically the second thing he 

1180
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,040
does is hands. 
Like basically like the same 

1181
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,200
council session or the same set 
of orders. 

1182
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:35,960
It's so close together that it 
may as well be done at the same 

1183
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,120
time. 
So very little difference. 

1184
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,880
In the books, Cole orders the 
mission and Sir Eric is noted to

1185
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,800
have gone to the Sept to pray 
for forgiveness. 

1186
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,760
And in the book version or the 
show version, he just kind of 

1187
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,680
argues about it. 
And that's kind of how they 

1188
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,520
reflect this. 
And for all we know, he does go 

1189
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:51,720
to the Sept. 
We're not going to see his 

1190
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,800
whole. 
I like to imagine he did. 

1191
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,760
I, I thought about that a little
bit too, because Cole gives him 

1192
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,760
the order and the next thing we 
see he's like on Dragonstone. 

1193
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,360
There had to be some preparation
in between there, right? 

1194
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,960
He had to like, I'll get a 
change of clothes and food, a 

1195
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,760
boat ticket. 
I even thought about the idea if

1196
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,960
it was smart for him to show up 
in the Kingsguard uniform, maybe

1197
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,440
he should have waited till he 
was in the castle Unchained. 

1198
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,560
Yo, but some of those how's? 
He going to get into the castle 

1199
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,280
though, without his Kingsguard 
guard in the book. 

1200
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,000
That's what he he, he's, he 
dresses as fishermen and then 

1201
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,600
changes, which we can kind of 
assume is what happened here in 

1202
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,640
the show too, like. 
Have already happened on the. 

1203
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,040
Shore we see him walking up the 
hill. 

1204
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,640
We don't know what happened what
he was doing before he got off 

1205
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,080
the boat. 
We don't see him get off the 

1206
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,520
boat. 
So it's it's hard to be sure 

1207
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,720
there now. 
Also, it should be said in the 

1208
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,760
book version it's said the 
sources are unclear on what the 

1209
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,600
mission was in the show. 
It's kill Rainier. 

1210
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,920
That's that's explicit in the 
books, though. 

1211
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,400
It could be it's either that or 
Jace and Joffrey. 

1212
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,600
It's there's there's a debate in
the sources other which it was. 

1213
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,640
So it's either the two sons or 
rain era. 

1214
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,600
So then he sails for Dragons on 
either way and book and show he 

1215
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,440
gets there one way or another, 
whether he's disguised as a 

1216
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,600
fisherman or not. 
He presumably he had to disguise

1217
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,120
as a fisherman because of the 
blockade. 

1218
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,560
So there has to be some way 
where he he couldn't have just 

1219
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:08,800
gone in his garb, but that might
have maybe maybe that helped him

1220
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,480
get past too. 
They're like, oh, it's Sir Eric.

1221
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,520
Let him let him through. 
You know, I could get him 

1222
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:13,800
through the blockade and through
the. 

1223
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,760
Yeah, anyway, it's not hard to 
explain. 

1224
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,000
We didn't see it, but it's it's 
not important to to get into 

1225
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,680
that. 
In the show, Cole feels a lot of

1226
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,000
guilt and shame and is driven by
hate for Rainiera and a love for

1227
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,800
Allison. 
And the love for Allison is not 

1228
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,120
necessarily romantic in the 
book. 

1229
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,000
It's not explicit or said that 
way, but there is a devotion to 

1230
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,000
her, which you can see why it's 
sexual in the show. 

1231
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,880
It could have been in the books 
and the Maitres just never knew 

1232
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,840
about it, but it it it would fit
either way. 

1233
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,680
The set up, the emotion behind 
it all is very similar book and 

1234
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,600
show. 
You've got Cole's. 

1235
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,200
Cole's pretty much of the same 
mind frame in both. 

1236
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,640
Yeah, I would say he's driven by
a number of things. 

1237
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:55,160
You know, one is he's 
projecting. 

1238
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,960
He's he's oh, in fact, that 
wasn't a little note that I took

1239
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,920
when he when he first confronts 
Aurek and he gives him a hard 

1240
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:03,440
time about his cloak being 
dirty. 

1241
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,760
And he, you know, he's going to 
give him this mission and he 

1242
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:11,000
kind of challenges his his 
loyalty and, and he ends up 

1243
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,760
making a point. 
You said earlier, like, like I, 

1244
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,240
I think Cole knows good and well
that he is loyal, but he also 

1245
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:20,200
recognizes that the question of 
his loyalty could come up, you 

1246
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,240
know, and they just go to all 
the rat catchers. 

1247
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:24,960
They don't think all the rat 
catchers come away. 

1248
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,360
But like, and in the same way 
that Damon was kind of 

1249
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:33,200
threatening him, Damon didn't 
threaten Eric, but he did 

1250
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,280
threaten the other two 
Kingsguard with his dragon. 

1251
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:40,560
He's like I want you to re swear
your loyalty with my dragon 

1252
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,640
present like he's using fear to.
He might have done that to Eric,

1253
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,080
but Eric came after that. 
Exactly, exactly. 

1254
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,840
But Cole is basically doing the 
same thing as like, I'll just 

1255
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,120
tell the king that I don't trust
you, and that'll just be an end.

1256
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,000
You know, he's like, you better 
do what I say. 

1257
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,440
You know, I've got you under my 
control one way or the other. 

1258
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:57,920
And he's like, fine, I just have
to do this. 

1259
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,320
Yes, he makes it about honor and
he makes it about fear. 

1260
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,600
He makes it about he threatens 
the king, but he didn't threaten

1261
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,200
him with his life. 
I don't think Eric, Eric feels 

1262
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:05,400
for his life. 
He feels like you're I'm going 

1263
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,440
to tell the king you're 
untrustworthy, which is like his

1264
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,480
honor is being questioned, which
is again, is this his whole life

1265
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,720
has been tonight duty and honor.
That's that's what matters to 

1266
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:16,680
him most. 
Cole knows exactly what levers 

1267
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:17,960
to push to get him to do what he
wants. 

1268
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,680
He starts small with the cloak. 
Then he works his way up to the 

1269
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,160
bigger violation. 
Then it says, look, even if it's

1270
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:27,040
not your fault, it's up to you 
because you were the guy in 

1271
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,920
charge at the time. 
Doesn't matter if it wasn't your

1272
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,440
fault, we're going to get the 
blame. 

1273
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,560
So it you have to fix it. 
And it's suspicious because your

1274
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,400
brother's on the other side. 
There's all these. 

1275
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,440
Things. 
Yeah, he lays it on thick. 

1276
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,840
I will say that I do think 
however much Cole meant to or 

1277
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,200
not, there is a threat in his 
life too because Aegon did just 

1278
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,680
kill all those rat catchers and 
I'm. 

1279
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:50,440
Just saying, I don't know that 
he was worried about that. 

1280
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,280
But you're right. 
You're right that it was there. 

1281
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:53,520
I I I agree. 
Yeah. 

1282
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:54,560
I don't know if that would have 
moved him. 

1283
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,240
If he's worried about death. 
It's hard to go on this mission 

1284
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:58,680
in the 1st place, you know? 
Yeah. 

1285
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,480
But the the thing about it I was
going to say is that his 

1286
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,160
response when Cole suggests 
this, when he's like, where were

1287
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,840
you? 
You know, he's he doesn't say, 

1288
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,840
what are you crazy? 
Are you questioning my loyalty? 

1289
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,440
How could you even think that? 
What he says is, are you mad? 

1290
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:17,800
Yeah. 
Are you? 

1291
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,440
Mad and he means. 
Mad like in saying crazy mad, 

1292
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:25,120
but Cole actually is mad angry 
himself for his own 

1293
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,520
indiscretions and he's taking it
out on him. 

1294
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,800
I thought it was a well written 
little moment. 

1295
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,560
He's. 
Like, yes, I am mad. 

1296
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,160
I'm I'm angry, mad. 
That's that's, you're right, 

1297
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:35,240
Sean. 
That's a really good way. 

1298
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:37,120
Really good. 
Good take there. 

1299
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,280
So duty is the death of love. 
I raised this point at the 

1300
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,000
beginning early in the episode. 
And of course it's a phrase in 

1301
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,760
the books. 
The actual phrase is love is the

1302
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:48,360
bane of honor, the death of 
duty. 

1303
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,880
The twins are the case where 
this is kind of reversed. 

1304
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,280
You know, it's the duty is the 
death of love here. 

1305
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,000
They did their duty and they 
both died for it. 

1306
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:03,840
Here is the book version of Aryx
Arrival at the Castle. 

1307
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,360
Sir Arek came ashore without 
hindrance, donned his armor and 

1308
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,040
white cloak, and had no trouble 
gaining entrance to the castle 

1309
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,680
in the guise of his twin 
brother, just as Christian Cole 

1310
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,080
had planned. 
Deep in the heart of 

1311
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,000
Dragonstone, however, as he was 
making his way to the royal 

1312
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:27,080
apartments, the gods brought him
face to face with Sir Eric 

1313
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:31,280
himself, who knew at once what 
his brother's presence meant. 

1314
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,520
The singers tell us that, SER 
Eric said I love you, brother, 

1315
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,800
as he unsheathed his blade. 
And that, SER Aurek replied. 

1316
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:45,160
And I you, brother. 
As he drew his own, the twins 

1317
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,400
battled for the best part of an 
hour. 

1318
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:52,080
Grand Maester Moncken says the 
clash of steel on steel woke 

1319
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,520
half of the Queen's Court. 
But the onlookers could only 

1320
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,480
stand by helplessly and watch, 
for no man there could tell 

1321
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:04,000
which brother was which. 
In the end, SER Arek and SER 

1322
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:08,640
Arek dealt each other mortal 
wounds and died in one another's

1323
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,680
arms with tears upon their 
cheeks. 

1324
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,400
Now, this is multiple sources 
used for one account and because

1325
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,200
it's so poetic, it is the 
preferred version. 

1326
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,680
But you can see where some of 
the exaggerations are without 

1327
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,800
even putting it under much 
direct screwed. 

1328
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,520
And you can see fought for an 
hour. 

1329
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:27,360
That's it's kind of extreme. 
That seems very unlikely, the 

1330
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,440
whole idea that they both had 
tears on their faces and they 

1331
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,160
both said I love you. 
Yeah, it's possible. 

1332
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,160
I I don't. 
I'm I'm glad that the show gave 

1333
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,600
credence to that possibility. 
But you can see why this is a 

1334
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:44,080
little, you know, added to a 
little exaggerated, a little 

1335
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,520
softened, perhaps. 
You know, it's still pretty 

1336
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:48,880
tragic, though. 
It's a little Arthurian perhaps,

1337
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,920
which is an influence that is 
present here, I think Nina says 

1338
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,280
it's feels reminiscent of Ned's 
fever dream of the Tower of Joy,

1339
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,280
the poetic declaration of love 
followed by this fight to the 

1340
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,640
death where there's like this is
all about love and duty coming 

1341
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,440
together like one. 
Ned's love for his and duty 

1342
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,200
towards his sister, the King's 
guard, their duty towards their 

1343
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:11,440
their oaths and the new king, 
etcetera. 

1344
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,360
Maybe even to the Song of Ice 
and Fire, depending on what 

1345
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,520
Rhaegar told them. 
All this stuff that matters so 

1346
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,520
much that's that's jumbled up in
his mind because when Ned thinks

1347
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,560
of it, it's he's, you know, he's
literally in dreaming, you know,

1348
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,920
and he's in pain and has been 
given milk of the poppy and all 

1349
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,560
that stuff. 
So of course it's not going to 

1350
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,200
be just straightforward, but 
it's very fitting. 

1351
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:34,720
And I love that we're able to 
very easily connect Eric and Ark

1352
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,040
to some of the series's most 
poignant, tragic moments and 

1353
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:41,080
some that are yet to come. 
Like, again, Jamie and Cersei 

1354
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,080
perhaps are the twins that we 
can most draw parallels with 

1355
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,480
them too. 
Now, in this version of the 

1356
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,440
fight, Nina says another perhaps
flaw is you don't have to know 

1357
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,560
who's who to break up the fight.
You can just like stop them and 

1358
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:58,280
then figure out who it is, you 
know, do this, the Solomon test.

1359
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:00,520
Especially if it's going on for 
an hour. 

1360
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:02,920
Yeah, yeah. 
You can see why in the show 

1361
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:04,840
version or in this version, 
other book version that we're 

1362
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,520
about to read, why there 
wouldn't have been time to stop 

1363
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:07,440
them. 
But in this version, it's like, 

1364
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,080
yeah, just like get like 1020 
Knights and just like with 

1365
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,480
Shields and just run in between 
them and just hold them back. 

1366
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,040
And it's like, well, Eric, Eric 
won't fight any of them. 

1367
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,400
And Eric might just be like, all
right, you got me. 

1368
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,440
I don't know. 
So, yeah, either way, that. 

1369
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,160
So there's a lot of reasons 
there's a problem with that 

1370
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:25,360
story. 
But that's the most popular 

1371
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:26,280
version. 
That's the version Sansa 

1372
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:27,880
believes in. 
That's the version Bran believes

1373
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:29,640
in. 
You know, and you can see why. 

1374
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,440
It's the it's the story. 
It's the best story. 

1375
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,840
You know, if you're into stories
and don't care about what really

1376
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,320
happened. 
Which is true for young people 

1377
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:41,040
and old people, too. 
And middle-aged people, anyway. 

1378
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,000
It was one of their old bit that
I forgot to mention in the our 

1379
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:49,440
last episode that I felt like 
there was a a theme or a motif 

1380
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,080
of moments where control has 
been lost, whether it's 

1381
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,480
someone's temper or, or, you 
know, like in the wake of the 

1382
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,720
the boy being assassinated. 
Like everyone's like in this 

1383
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,760
panic and everyone's being 
hustled around. 

1384
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,320
They have a meeting and Aeon's 
just throwing stuff around and 

1385
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,320
yelling. 
Every time we have one of these 

1386
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:12,080
moments, the doors get closed. 
When when Otto's yelling at 

1387
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:13,840
Aegon, the door gets closed. 
When? 

1388
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,800
When Aegon's smashing the 
castle, the door gets closed. 

1389
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:21,000
When Eric is about to go in 
there and try to kill Renera, 

1390
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,439
the door gets closed and. 
Locked. 

1391
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,359
There's another moment where 
things are out of control behind

1392
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,040
a closed door. 
That's good. 

1393
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:31,279
Right on. 
So here's the other take from 

1394
01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:35,399
the fire and blood, and this one
probably resembles the show 

1395
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:37,040
version more, but your mileage 
may vary. 

1396
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:39,560
Quote. 
Mushrooms account is shorter, 

1397
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,920
saltier, and altogether nastier.
The fight lasted only moments. 

1398
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:49,240
Our fool says there were no 
declarations of brotherly love. 

1399
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,319
Each Cargill denounced the other
as a traitor. 

1400
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:56,080
As they clashed, Sir Eric, 
standing above his twin on the 

1401
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,240
spiral steps, struck the first 
mortal blow. 

1402
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,560
A savage downward cut that nigh 
took his brother's sword arm off

1403
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:08,120
at the shoulder, but as he 
collapsed, SER Arik grasped his 

1404
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,120
Slayer's white cloak and pulled 
him close enough to drive a 

1405
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:17,319
dagger deep into his belly. 
SER Arik was dead before the 1st

1406
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:22,000
Guards arrived, but SER Arik 
took four days to die of his gut

1407
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:26,479
wound, screaming in horrible 
pain and cursing his traitor 

1408
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:30,439
brother all the while. 
Yikes, I'm glad we didn't get 

1409
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,120
that version. 
It's like the more likely book 

1410
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:34,880
version because they, like you 
said, is these. 

1411
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:38,200
They were parted for so long, I 
think they would have been more 

1412
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:42,319
likely to see each other with a 
traitorous view than they are in

1413
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:44,080
the show. 
I think you're right. 

1414
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:48,279
And I like that they preserve 
the the fatal wound For Eric, 

1415
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:50,279
it's the gut wound. 
Either way, he stabbed in the 

1416
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:52,439
belly, whether he did it to 
himself or whether he's cursing 

1417
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,400
his brother for four days. 
This version does seem more 

1418
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,080
authentic, more realistic, but 
it's there's still problems with

1419
01:09:58,080 --> 01:09:59,880
it. 
I mean, seriously, how do you 

1420
01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:04,840
have your arm cut off and then 
pull your brother down and stab 

1421
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,040
him with a dagger, all with just
that one arm? 

1422
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,280
Now you know, that seems a 
little tricky to me, but it's 

1423
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:13,120
not impossible. 
But it's a little hard to 

1424
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,960
believe, which is why we can't 
can't just accept one of these 

1425
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:18,800
versions over the others. 
Flaws with both, even if we 

1426
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,440
think one has more flaws than 
the other. 

1427
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:22,840
That's part of the legend. 
They're all part of the legend 

1428
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,440
now. 
This also would have been more 

1429
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:27,880
difficult for anyone to witness 
fighting on a spiral staircase. 

1430
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,520
How can anyone see what's 
happening in this fight right? 

1431
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:32,760
That's a good point. 
You would not get a good vantage

1432
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:34,120
of it. 
You would be like behind it. 

1433
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:36,520
You would have a tough angle. 
You would hear them screaming. 

1434
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,640
You would have like and if it 
was so fast it says Sir Arc was 

1435
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,200
dead before the 1st guards 
arrived, which implies that 

1436
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,160
maybe only a servant or two saw 
them. 

1437
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,400
Mushroom is there. 
This is an important thing. 

1438
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,960
Like Mushroom was a was at the 
castle. 

1439
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,880
That doesn't mean he saw it. 
That still doesn't mean he saw 

1440
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,120
it. 
Like the four days of dying is 

1441
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,160
perhaps the most believable part
for a non witness to to 

1442
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:00,760
corroborate because you don't 
have to have been a witness to 

1443
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,880
the actual fight. 
And Nina points out as well, 

1444
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:08,320
it's important to remember these
brothers spent that whole not 

1445
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:13,320
just apart from each other, but 
hearing every day while they 

1446
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:19,720
guard each other's leaders, how 
much the other side hates each 

1447
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,040
other. 
They constantly would talk about

1448
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,520
like all those greens or all 
those blacks. 

1449
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:27,040
So it's just like they hear this
propaganda or truth or a 

1450
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,800
combination of both for 10 years
before this happened. 

1451
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,040
So yeah, you can't really see 
why they would have grown apart.

1452
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,000
So the show's version is a bit 
of a mash up of both. 

1453
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,040
They definitely draw out the 
connection between the brothers 

1454
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:39,920
more, which I think was good. 
It makes it a little more 

1455
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,640
visceral and short term the the 
long term split isn't as you 

1456
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,360
it's harder to manage that on 
ATV show without the time 

1457
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,720
condensation anymore. 
So I agree with them doing it 

1458
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,840
that way. 
Mazzari is added into the mix. 

1459
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,440
Is the person who notices and 
and gives notice. 

1460
01:11:55,760 --> 01:12:00,160
That's not a big change. 
You can imagine that somebody 

1461
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,000
could have said something, 
someone could have noticed. 

1462
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,800
Even though they look the same, 
especially in the book version. 

1463
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,080
Do they really like the exact 
same armor? 

1464
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:11,920
Like are they were? 
Do both sets of Kingsguard have 

1465
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:13,400
the same armor? 
Really? 

1466
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,640
Like if one if Granier in the 
show, just like let's have 

1467
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,960
different armor for our 
Kingsguard now, then this like 

1468
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,240
he shows up. 
It's like that's it's, it's an 

1469
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,040
older Kingsguard armor, but it 
checks out. 

1470
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,000
Sir, you know that wouldn't 
work. 

1471
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,400
If either one of them had shaved
or trimmed their mustache or cut

1472
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,640
their hair or anything like 
that, so. 

1473
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,120
That's the reason why the show 
doing it quickly makes sense, 

1474
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,840
because it's like the more time 
that passes, the more these 

1475
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,920
things aren't believable. 
It, it was so close to the 

1476
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,680
timing of how close he got to 
Bernara before Eric came in to 

1477
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:47,320
stop him, that it, it, it they 
clearly wanted to make it seem 

1478
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:50,760
like Meszario, like identified, 
warned someone, whatever else. 

1479
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,000
But it could have been just some
other guard, could have said 

1480
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,040
wait, I just thought I saw you 
go down the hall. 

1481
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:56,400
That's impossible. 
To hold on. 

1482
01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:59,360
A second, yeah, any number of 
ways it could have been 

1483
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,120
discovered and, and and could 
have been discovered 10 seconds 

1484
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,400
sooner or later and it might 
have panned out differently. 

1485
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:09,360
But all that to say that it 
makes me wonder again, for those

1486
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,680
that don't know, I'm unsullied. 
I'm not sure where this is going

1487
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,640
in the book. 
So you, you, you may Aziz, but 

1488
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,280
it makes me think that they're 
setting up Mazzaria to become 

1489
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,200
aligned with the blacks here. 
That's that's what I feel like 

1490
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,720
might be happening in in the 
next. 

1491
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:27,240
Certainly she just did a great 
service to the Queen. 

1492
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,640
That's you can see that how that
could leverage into more, yeah. 

1493
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,440
Maybe she's just repaying the 
favor, but it wasn't really a 

1494
01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:35,920
favor. 
Like Damon promised to let her 

1495
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,680
go and then didn't and she told 
Renera and so Renera went ahead 

1496
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:41,920
and let her go. 
She could have just gone and I 

1497
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:43,280
feel like everything would have 
been even. 

1498
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,280
But the fact that she seems to 
have taken some action to help 

1499
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,040
this side out. 
Without any obvious. 

1500
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,560
Yeah, without any obvious 
benefit to herself other than 

1501
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:53,800
the favor could get her 
something. 

1502
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:55,640
But yeah, she did. 
She didn't have to do that. 

1503
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,240
Yeah, that's a good point. 
As for Eric walking through 

1504
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,960
Dragonstone, this thing the book
didn't draw out because you you 

1505
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:07,320
can't necessarily notice it 
because you're not following in 

1506
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,520
the POV of Blood and Cheese or 
of Ark. 

1507
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,040
But the the there's a lot of 
similarities between them. 

1508
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,960
Just walking past people and 
just pretend like you belong and

1509
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,480
no one's going to notice you. 
Very similar. 

1510
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:21,320
Like especially the painted 
table room. 

1511
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:24,880
Ark walks past the painted table
in the basically that's their 

1512
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,400
throne room. 
The equivalent that for the way 

1513
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,040
the scenes have been filmed and 
where the action is taking 

1514
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,000
place. 
It's sort of like their throne 

1515
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,720
room and their small council 
chamber for dragon stones kind 

1516
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:36,920
of one room instead of two. 
So he walks right through there 

1517
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,920
just like blood and cheese 
walked past who are like himself

1518
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,720
in the throne room where Egon 
was sitting drinking with his 

1519
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:46,240
friends. 
So that's a great little that 

1520
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:48,080
really added to the tension. 
Like you said, Sean, you know, 

1521
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:49,880
right now, it wasn't going to 
get killed right there, but it 

1522
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,600
really felt like in that your 
your like lizard brain feels the

1523
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:56,800
possibility despite the logic of
it not not really fitting. 

1524
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,480
And that's hard to do when you 
have characters that you know 

1525
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:01,160
are pretty safe, at least in the
short term. 

1526
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:05,240
Like long term, who knows, but. 
She might not get killed, but 

1527
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,880
she might get her eye stabbed 
out or something. 

1528
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,800
Yeah, she might not necessarily 
come out unscathed so. 

1529
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,240
Good point, Good point. 
So let's see just a couple more 

1530
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,000
things. 
The fight itself, Yeah, it was 

1531
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,120
excellent. 
Bitter, messy, great 

1532
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,360
choreography. 
It was short and brutal, kind of

1533
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,760
like mushrooms description and 
they expressed love, they 

1534
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,960
expressed anger, they expressed 
all the difficulty. 

1535
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,080
It was really well done watching
the BTSI highly recommend that 

1536
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,360
they they trained for it a lot. 
There was a stunt double for 

1537
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,600
just at the moment where the one
brother falls onto that urn. 

1538
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:41,720
So that was Eric, right? 
Their other, their other brother

1539
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:45,920
Urich, right. 
What's the 4th brother, 3rd and 

1540
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,800
4th brother Name the stunt 
double, the stunt double and the

1541
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,480
stunt triple and the How many 
stunt double S do you need for 

1542
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:52,880
double S? 
Derek and Rick. 

1543
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,360
I want my favorite part of the 
BTS was they got interviewed 

1544
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,720
about it. 
Like someone asked who's better 

1545
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,080
at sword fighting and they gave 
the same answer for the same 

1546
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:04,720
reason or they gave the 
different answer for the same 

1547
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:05,680
reason. 
It's amazing. 

1548
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,640
Like like this is twin logic for
you. 

1549
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:09,880
Like this goes to show that like
when you're if you're a twin, 

1550
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,440
your life is different in ways 
that like we non twins can't 

1551
01:16:12,440 --> 01:16:15,240
understand. 
One of them said, oh, he hit me 

1552
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,840
more, so he was better. 
And the other one said I hit him

1553
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,880
more, so he was better, 'cause 
they're practicing. 

1554
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:23,200
You're not supposed to hit the 
other guy. 

1555
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:24,760
Someone's like, oh, he was more 
skilled at hitting me. 

1556
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,200
There's guy. 
The job is not to hit each other

1557
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,680
'cause we're practicing. 
And it's like, so, yeah. 

1558
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,080
So they both just found a way to
make the other one to give the 

1559
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,080
credit to their twin, which is. 
I love that. 

1560
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,000
Yeah. 
Real quick. 

1561
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,600
OK, couple more things. 
Just I mentioned Arthurian 

1562
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:42,280
influence. 
There's just this one that we 

1563
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:44,200
know about. 
And we know that George is 

1564
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,720
really deep in Arthurian 
legends. 

1565
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,600
He's read them all. 
And Sir Thomas Mallory's Lamorte

1566
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:51,800
Arthur is extremely famous, 
extremely well known. 

1567
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,800
It's it's, it's probably the 
most famous book from the 15th 

1568
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:59,240
century, which maybe isn't 
saying a lot, but it's a famous 

1569
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,560
book. 
Now, Thomas Mallory died in the 

1570
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,720
year 1470. 
He may have been in prison 

1571
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,080
during the Wars of the Roses and
it might have been for political

1572
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:07,880
reasons. 
It's uncertain though, because 

1573
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,800
Thomas Mallory is a very common 
name. 

1574
01:17:10,440 --> 01:17:14,200
Regardless, the one the correct 
Thomas Mallory who wrote this 

1575
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:18,920
book wrote of Sir Balin the 
Savage AKA the Knight with two 

1576
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:20,800
swords. 
Which that that sounds like a 

1577
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,000
George R Martin name doesn't it?
And his twin brother Sir Balin. 

1578
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:28,160
So Balin and Balin BALIN&BALAN. 
Actually there's lots of 

1579
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,840
different spellings of these. 
Medieval England, whatever, lots

1580
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:32,760
of different versions. 
The two would eventually kill 

1581
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,320
each other in single combat 
though. 

1582
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:40,240
It's in an inversion cause 
unlike Eric and Arc, Balin and 

1583
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,000
Balin were both in disguise and 
didn't know they were fighting 

1584
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,200
each other. 
In the case of Eric and Ark, 

1585
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,280
looking like each other is the 
disguise. 

1586
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,560
That's how Ark got into dragon 
stones, by looking like his 

1587
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:52,600
brother. 
So it's kind of, yeah, it is an 

1588
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,280
inversion of that. 
So that's pretty cool. 

1589
01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:00,200
Like the show version in the 
marked Arthur, their death were 

1590
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,040
prophesied there. 
There's there's a lot of 

1591
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:04,800
familiar elements in there, such
as battles for the crowns, 

1592
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:07,600
there's treason, there's 
conflicting duties like their 

1593
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:10,320
oaths conflict with each other. 
There's a dangerous quest to 

1594
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,520
regain the King's trust, which 
is pretty similar to what Arc 

1595
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,120
was told he was doing. 
It's not it's unclear whether 

1596
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:19,480
that's actually the case, but 
that was how Cole sold it to 

1597
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:21,800
him. 
And there's a suicide by falling

1598
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:23,800
on one sword. 
It's it's neither Balin or 

1599
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:28,800
Balin, but there is a notable 
suicide in their tail. 

1600
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,520
And it's it's often said that 
Balin Balin is a story about 

1601
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,240
destiny, which you can see how 
that is fitting here as well. 

1602
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:38,440
Their duty LED them to this end.
It was like almost they were 

1603
01:18:38,440 --> 01:18:41,240
destined to to be on opposite 
sides of the civil war that 

1604
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:45,040
people, you could argue have 
predicted since Jeharis first, 

1605
01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:47,200
you know, passed over a woman 
many. 

1606
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:49,960
Or maybe that's not the 'cause 
you point to, but it's certainly

1607
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,400
one I point to. 
You know, I said in the last 

1608
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,800
episode that I when Eric and 
Eric were originally presented 

1609
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,840
to us, it was a little 
frustrating to me that there's 

1610
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,880
already so many characters and 
so many similar names and giving

1611
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,880
us twins with similar names. 
It's so hard to keep up with 

1612
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:05,000
everyone. 
Why would they do this? 

1613
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:09,520
But then realizing, OK, one, 
symbolically, it's a really good

1614
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,640
way to kind of compare the 
blacks and the greens. 

1615
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:16,080
But then also it sets up this 
plot point of our being able to 

1616
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:18,480
get into the castle because he 
looks like his twin. 

1617
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,520
But I wonder how much of that 
George had thawed out. 

1618
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:25,480
You know, you pointed out this 
is one of the first things he 

1619
01:19:25,480 --> 01:19:29,960
had written 30 years ago and he 
was writing the Game of Thrones 

1620
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:33,160
book, not Dance of Dragons. 
I I wonder if he had it in his 

1621
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:36,400
mind that early that one twin 
was going to pose the other to 

1622
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:39,000
get into the castle. 
And even, and if he did even 

1623
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,000
have that, I thought that that 
means that he already had this 

1624
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,600
idea that Renera and Aegon would
have this conflict and be in 

1625
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,440
different castles. 
I I wonder how far back and 

1626
01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:50,680
knowing this Arthurian's story 
that might have been stewing in 

1627
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:52,160
his brain. 
He may have not. 

1628
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,880
Maybe some of these details, not
exactly, but I can't imagine 

1629
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:59,080
that this was sitting with him 
for a long time that Lord knows 

1630
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,720
how many other ideas have been 
and are sitting with him that 

1631
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,560
are seeping into this story. 
Right, Yeah, it's it's 

1632
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,240
overwhelming. 
Yeah. 

1633
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:09,640
All right, well, let's close 
with Jamie and Cersei, our last 

1634
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,160
little sub topic here. 
Not only are they a model for 

1635
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:16,360
Kingsguard Knights in in the 
relationship with that comes 

1636
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,360
with someone being a Kingsguard.
Now they're obviously different 

1637
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:22,720
that one of them is not in the 
Kingsguard. 

1638
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,240
But of course it still works as 
a comparison cause a lot of 

1639
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:28,200
things that are prophesied or 
foreshadowed for them. 

1640
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,360
And there's patterns in how 
George writes twins. 

1641
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:32,920
And of course they are the most 
important twins of all of the 

1642
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:35,360
whole thing. 
It's interesting and almost 

1643
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,360
funny that of all the of of the 
two of them, it's Cersei who 

1644
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,600
thinks of Sir Eric and Sir Eric 
in an example, not Jamie. 

1645
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:45,600
But it's almost hits harder that
Cersei's the one to think of it.

1646
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,600
Cause Jaime would of course be 
more steeped in the legends of 

1647
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:50,160
the King's art anyway. 
He's actually read the White 

1648
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:54,440
Book, whereas when we see him 
read the White book, whereas she

1649
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:58,000
presumably has not bothered to 
read that book, her her mention 

1650
01:20:58,000 --> 01:20:59,960
is almost ironic. 
She's thinks about how close she

1651
01:20:59,960 --> 01:21:03,800
is to Jaime, how they share a 
soul and how they came into the 

1652
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:05,640
world together and how they 
could leave it together. 

1653
01:21:06,440 --> 01:21:08,200
Yeah. 
Like, just like Eric and Ark 

1654
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:09,760
leave it together. 
Cersei probably won't kill 

1655
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:12,840
Jamie, but he might kill her and
then take his own life. 

1656
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:16,000
I think that's a very distinct 
possibility for how they exit 

1657
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:17,920
the story. 
Nina thinks that's a strong 

1658
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:18,880
possibility. 
I do, too. 

1659
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:21,920
We both thought that long before
any comparisons to Sir Ark and 

1660
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,640
Eric. 
This definitely adds to it now 

1661
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:26,160
that we've seen it on the show, 
because, of course, the book 

1662
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,280
version of Eric and Ark doesn't 
have one of them falling on 

1663
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:31,800
their sword. 
But now we see that it really 

1664
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,400
draws to the rest of the 
parallels. 

1665
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:34,560
It's like, oh, wow. 
Yeah, there's this. 

1666
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:35,840
There's that. 
There's a lot of parallels 

1667
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,520
between Eric arc, Jamie, Cersei,
the soul mate stuff, the one 

1668
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,880
soul and two bodies, the 
Kingsguard element to the 

1669
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,200
conflicting duty that is as part
of Jamie's story more so than 

1670
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,880
anyone else, even more than 
Brienne or Dunk. 

1671
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,600
You know that. 
So he's the, he's the Kingsguard

1672
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,440
conflict guy, right? 
He's the POV for that. 

1673
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:57,320
So I, I think that's really 
neat. 

1674
01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:01,680
Any other thoughts on Cersei, 
Jamie and and Eric Ark here as a

1675
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:02,960
comparison? 
Do you think, do you see it? 

1676
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,960
Do you think it tells the story 
of what might be to come or or 

1677
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:08,640
maybe was that a reach? 
It's certain. 

1678
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,760
I don't think it's a reach. 
I, I don't think it's a given 

1679
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,080
that it will happen. 
But it's one of those things, if

1680
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,000
it does happen, OK, we can see 
how George is setting that up, 

1681
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,840
that parallel. 
Was there already the Rose I? 

1682
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:21,320
Would only add it. 
I don't put it beyond Cersei 

1683
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:25,720
killing Jamie, that's all. 
Like yeah, like go blow to blow 

1684
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,920
with swords, but she might 
poison him or kill him in his 

1685
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:31,440
sleep or have someone else. 
You might order Gregor to kill 

1686
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:32,680
him or something like that. 
Sure. 

1687
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:33,800
Yeah, it could happen. 
It could happen. 

1688
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,680
Yeah, she could. 
She could lose her temper, be 

1689
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:39,320
distraught. 
Just he does something to sever 

1690
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:41,960
their connection. 
And so she thinks he's a traitor

1691
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,920
to her, like Eric said to Eric. 
Basically. 

1692
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:46,280
Like you're the one who broke us
up. 

1693
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:48,680
You know, it's your fault if she
perceives it that way. 

1694
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,320
And she's not the most likely to
take responsibility, if we're 

1695
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,040
being honest, you know. 
Yeah. 

1696
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,080
And I said to do the Lannisters 
really want run to twins? 

1697
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,040
There's been so many, obviously,
Sir Thailand and Sir Jason right

1698
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:01,240
there. 
And then Martin and Willem, Teon

1699
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:03,000
and Tywald. 
Anyway, there's lots of them. 

1700
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,840
So, like, not just the phrase. 
And the Targaryens have lots of 

1701
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,040
twins, too. 
But that's all we have for 

1702
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:09,840
today. 
One other thing. 

1703
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,640
Aaron and Emmerich, brothers in 
the Nights Watch. 

1704
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:17,920
A&E names who are from Fair 
Isle, More twins from the West. 

1705
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:22,160
They're in the Nights Watch. 
John trains with them, and maybe

1706
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,160
they'll be on opposite sides of 
something, I don't know what, 

1707
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:25,600
but just keeping track of all 
the twins. 

1708
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,760
Here's the time for it, right? 
At least most of those twins, 

1709
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:30,120
their names are a little 
different. 

1710
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:32,240
There's also a Sarah and a 
Sarah. 

1711
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:33,680
There is a Sarah and a Sarah, 
yes. 

1712
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:35,720
Who does this? 
Why would you name your kids 

1713
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,960
such some names? 
I don't think anyone see about 

1714
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:41,360
the reality of growing up and 
trying to get your kids to come 

1715
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:43,800
to dinner or go to bed when they
have the same freaking name. 

1716
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:49,160
Yeah, there's also Shara or 
Shira and Bandy who are twin 

1717
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,720
daughters of Joseph the Force, 
but unfortunately they are 

1718
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:57,880
captives at the Dread Fort. 
So yeah, we pray for Shira and 

1719
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,520
Bandy. 2 characters you might 
have forgotten even existed. 

1720
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:02,720
I'd rather be captive at the 
bread Fort. 

1721
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:04,960
Yeah, me too. 
My it smells way better. 

1722
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,160
Shout out to TK OK podcast 
network since the Super chat 

1723
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:11,120
says watching this later. 
Everyone is sending love now. 

1724
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,720
Heart heart heart. 
You guys probably mentioned 

1725
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:15,560
this, but are cargiles meant to 
be an inverse of the hound and 

1726
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:17,800
the mountain? 
Oh that's a great question. 

1727
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,560
I mean they're not twins. 
They do have a lot in common, 

1728
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:22,480
but they are kind of opposites 
that end up. 

1729
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:24,720
Both in the Kingsguard. 
Both in the Kingsguard and then 

1730
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:26,240
in the show version they kill 
each other. 

1731
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,480
So very good catch. 
I'm surprised I didn't think of 

1732
01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:30,280
that. 
That's a really good parallel. 

1733
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:32,280
I don't know if that will be 
their bookending. 

1734
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,240
We've kind of like a little kind
of go back and forth whether 

1735
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:37,320
it's too up, too optimistic or 
too like storyish for George to 

1736
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,520
bring to give Clegane bowl in 
the in the books. 

1737
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,360
But it's not it's not unlikely. 
It definitely could happen. 

1738
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:48,360
And if it does, then I would be 
on the lookout for Eric Ark 

1739
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:49,720
parallels with them. 
Although I don't I don't know 

1740
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,480
that they would both die, but it
would be fitting. 

1741
01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:54,040
It would be very fitting. 
Hard to kill an undead guy 

1742
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:55,760
picked up a sword again. 
That's my hope. 

1743
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,400
Right on, right on. 
That's also seems possible. 

1744
01:24:59,960 --> 01:25:01,360
I love that question. 
Thanks, TK. 

1745
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:03,280
OK, podcast network, Appreciate 
the question. 

1746
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:04,920
Tommy, you have to think about 
the Hound in the mountain is a 

1747
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:09,160
parallel a little more. 
But for now, we must bid you 

1748
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:13,040
adieu. 
Next stream is technically my 

1749
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:16,080
Twitch stream on Friday, 
twitch.tv history of Westeros. 

1750
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:18,760
We have our next preview episode
Saturday at 3:00. 

1751
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:21,880
And then of course, we're back 
with Sean on Monday for a 

1752
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:25,360
spoiler free review of episode 
3. 

1753
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:28,480
That's right, some other 
episodes in our catalogue that 

1754
01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:30,560
you might be interested in that 
I mentioned today. 

1755
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:32,760
If you're interested in Sir One 
of the Mirror Shield, we 

1756
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:34,760
mentioned that episode and it's 
a good one. 

1757
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,400
And one of our older ones, 
Prince Aiming the Dragonite, has

1758
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:41,680
a pair of episodes. 
And I mentioned the twins, Teon 

1759
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,000
and Tywall Lannister who were 
around right before the reigns 

1760
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:47,720
of Castamere and lived during 
the Peak Rebellion. 

1761
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:50,360
And we do just so happen to have
an episode on that called The 

1762
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:52,000
Peak Rebellion and the Death of 
Makar. 

1763
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:55,280
Check that out if you want to 
stay immersed in the history of 

1764
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:57,920
Westeros. 
We got so many episodes for you 

1765
01:25:57,920 --> 01:25:59,600
to do that with and we hope you 
enjoy it. 

1766
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:03,440
Until next time, thanks to Nina 
for her notes. 

1767
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:06,360
Check her out again good 
queenalley.tumblr.com. 

1768
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:10,280
Thanks to our good friend Bran 
the Builder for the awesome 

1769
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:12,880
intro that we have. 
Look at those cool coins, those 

1770
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,360
swords, those Dragons, all that 
fire and that cool music which 

1771
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:18,440
has my own mother playing 
strings in it too. 

1772
01:26:18,440 --> 01:26:20,080
A little bit. 
Got to shout her out too, of 

1773
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:21,760
course. 
Good job mom. 

1774
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:24,560
Shout out to Michael Klarfeld 
for his maps. 

1775
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:30,640
See those behind me? 
As usual, KLARADO x.de Clara 

1776
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,080
docs.de. 
That's how you can buy Michael's

1777
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:36,480
maps. 
And until next time, on behalf 

1778
01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:40,440
of Ashe and Sean Valarrieretas, 
have a good one y'all. 

1779
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:39,680
None. 
None.