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If conflict is a driver of 
stories, and it is, you know 

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that there's little that can 
match an apocalypse. 

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It destroys entire 
civilizations. 

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It changes everything. 
The very fabric of reality is 

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eviscerated and has to be 
rethought. 

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Moral boundaries are obscured 
and and recreated based on an 

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entire set of values. 
In fantasy, such events are 

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influenced by or outright 
created by supernatural means. 

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Long before fantasy authors were
a thing, however, our own world 

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produced many such tales 
originating from cultures in all

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corners of the globe. 
It's often said that even myths 

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have seeds of truth in them, and
that's a lot of our focus today.

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One of the most popular, most 
recent, and most grim examples 

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is Norse mythology. 
Actually, I could use that same 

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description of A Song of Ice and
Fire. 

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It's one of the most popular. 
It's recent, historically 

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speaking, and very grim. 
Right? 

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And it checks out. 
George is undoubtedly heavily 

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influenced by Norse mythology. 
In this episode is also 

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dedicated to 1 notable aspect of
that the wealth of parallels 

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between Ragnarok and the Long 
Night. 

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Both are ends of the world and 
so to speak, with the world 

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ringed in ice and fire. 
But there's also new beginnings,

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a dream of spring if you will. 
Both involve A lasting darkness 

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coupled with extended winter. 
Massive final battle between 

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great heavenly powers, forces of
nature and otherly beings. 

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They're even called the Others 
in both. 

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Yet we're not just concerned 
with the apocalypse itself, but 

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what comes before the signs and 
portents that tell us it's 

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coming. 
All that, and then the recovery 

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of civilization itself, making 
it all into a cycle. 

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In this one, we'll delve into 
how real world events transform 

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into myths, and in turn, how 
George has applied this concept 

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to A Song of Ice and Fire. 
We've got ice and fire giants, 

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flaming swords, world trees and 
heart trees, cirruses, serpents,

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Ravens, wolves, and science, 
archaeology, volcanology, 

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language analysis, and 
scientific disciplines I don't 

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even know the names of. 
They're in there too. 

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All that and more on this 
episode of History of Westeros 

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podcast. 
Hello and welcome back 

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everybody. 
I am Aziz with me as a Shaya. 

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We have live streams almost 
every Sunday at Sunday on East. 

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What do I say every Sunday at 
3:00 Eastern? 

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We're always on YouTube for 
those. 

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You can catch the edited version
afterwards on Spotify or the 

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audio only version is available 
on all podcast platforms and 

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it's ad free if you listen on 
Patreon. 

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This episode is heavily 
influenced by the book A History

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of the Vikings, Children of Ash 
and Elm by Neil Price. 

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It's the main source other than 
all the Song of Ice and Fire 

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sources, other than a few random
things I had to look up 

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definitions of stuff that you 
know, doesn't, doesn't really 

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need to be mentioned. 
But a huge thanks to regular 

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listener and probably in the 
chat right now. 

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Christina Kay gave me a ton of 
advice. 

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This is a top topic that touches
very much on her professional 

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career and a lot of personal 
interest as well. 

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And her input was extremely 
valuable along the way here for 

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a lot of these things, things I 
didn't know about, extra details

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added in, well, all sorts of 
good stuff. 

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This. 
Yeah, go ahead. 

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Kind of a fun fact about 
Christina Kay, you might also 

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have seen her contributions to 
the show in our Lomas 

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Longstrider episode, the latest 
Lomas one, where we featured her

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art, she did a piece of the Long
Bridge of Atlantis for us. 

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So anyways, I just thought that 
was a kind of fun bit of trivia 

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for y'all. 
A lot of our contributors rhyme 

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with Ina, Christina, Nina. 
That's it, really. 

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This is Topics Moot episode #12 
of 2025. 

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Patrons chose 16 episodes during
Topics Moot 2025, and this is 

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the 12th of those topics. 
If you have questions for us and

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ask them live here in the chat 
or hit us up at 

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westeroshistory@gmail.com. 
And at the end of this episode, 

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I'll give you some other 
suggestions for our catalog that

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have episodes that relate to 
this one. 

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And we'll start with a trivia 
question, the answer of which 

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will also be at the end. 
Who in Westeros history is 

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loosely or maybe more than 
loosely based on famous Viking 

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king Harold Hardrada? 
I will say the answer during the

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episode as usual, and then 
specifically revealed at the 

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end. 
Here are the sections for 

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today's episode. 
This episode was originally 

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called Norse Myth and the Long 
Night. 

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But as we delved deeper into it,
realized that that's too generic

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of a title. 
We're really just focused on the

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Ragnarok of it all. 
And so that provide just an 

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ability to come back and discuss
some of these topics at another 

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time. 
So here's what we got for you 

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today. 
Beginning in blood Adrizil memes

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bruner the others versus the 
others. 

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Ragnarok horns thimble winter 
like a Blackstone final battle 

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cultural memory societal reset 
the science of Ragnarok. 

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The real green seers, volcanic 
winters, plague of Justinian, 

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the Long night Westeros reset, 
the Old Gods of the North, the 

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Old gods of the South, and other
Ragnarox versus other long 

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nights. 
To close it out, let's go. 

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We have a poll that Ishaya put 
up in the chat. 

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Which of these animals do you 
most associate with Norse myth? 

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Ravens and crows, wolves, 
Dragons or serpents or giants? 

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Those four tell us what you 
think. 

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Norse myth may be the most 
borrowed of the world's 

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mythologies when it comes to 
fantasy, at least in the English

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language. 
More so even than Greek 

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mythology, which is probably 
Next up or loosely tied for 

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first. 
I don't know. 

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Those are probably the two most 
popular in the Western world. 

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Certainly in my lived experience
they are. 

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We even have a few episodes that
are dedicated to some Greek myth

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parallels. 
One of them is called The Rage 

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of Heroes, and that's a good 
one. 

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Check it out. 
Tolkien of course loved it and 

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used it a lot, probably more 
than George RR Martin does. 

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And of course, a huge portion of
all modern fantasy is inspired 

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by Tolkien, thus also inspired 
by Norse myth indirectly. 

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And of course, it'd be really 
hard to find a fantasy author 

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who hasn't read some things 
about Norse myth. 

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So it's like a double thing. 
And that's the case with George 

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as well, because George is 
heavily influenced by Tolkien 

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and Norse myth. 
So it's a definitely a double 

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whammy. 
I would have to go ahead and say

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then that Norse myth is the most
influential of all the myth 

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cycles on George RR Martin and A
Song of Ice and Fire in 

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particular. 
That of course varies from topic

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to topic, character to 
character, world building 

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location and world building 
location. 

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But overall, I'd say there's the
most, the most meat on this 

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bone, the Norse bone, shall we 
say. 

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So we will absolutely return to 
this some other time with things

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that aren't related to Ragnarok 
in the Long Night. 

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Today's challenge for us was to 
figure out where exactly to draw

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those lines. 
What's actually relevant to the 

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Long Night, which is just a 
regular Westeros Norse 

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connection anyway? 
There is so much categorization 

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that needs to be done. 
It's a very deep well. 

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We always err on the side of 
more context, more immersion. 

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That's fun. 
Much is made of Viking influence

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on the Ironborn, and for good 
reason. 

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But the North has more in common
with the so-called Norse or 

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Viking culture, so much so that 
we are only covering a portion 

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of here, as I said, the end of 
the world part, but also the 

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beginning, as you'll see. 
So yeah, I think overall, and 

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that's something for another 
time, we'll go through that be 

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like, yeah, actually the North 
has more in common with Viking 

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Age culture than the Ironborn 
even do, which is probably a 

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surprise to hear. 
But yeah, something to think 

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about. 
So here's a good just a few 

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examples. 
Sacred Groves and Adrijazil, 

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that's similar to northern 
values or northern religion. 

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Prophecy in cirruses, that's a 
mother mole kind of thing. 

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Old Nan, even Old Nan isn't an 
actual prophetess. 

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She doesn't use magic, but in 
the story, that's the role she 

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plays. 
She tells us what's going to 

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come or what has come. 
You know, she's the the font of 

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that sort of information. 
Of course, both of them have 

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giants, Ravens, wolves and 
Dragons. 

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What's interesting about Norse 
myth, and I got a credit, 

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Christina, for this one, it's so
common that you hear both in the

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Song of Ice and Fire, both in 
the real world that, oh, the 

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Vikings didn't have writing. 
Even I fell into this trap. 

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But Christina pointed out that 
runes are writing. 

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Like, why don't we call that 
writing? 

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It is. 
These are characters that's 

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written down, right? 
It's not on paper, but it's a 

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symbol that means something just
like a letter or a hieroglyphic,

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A hieroglyph. 
So yeah, that's writing. 

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It's different kind of writing. 
It's a language we don't fully 

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know. 
We don't have a lot of context 

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for it, but that's writing. 
So that's cool. 

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That's definitely something I 
had to rethink, and I appreciate

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that. 
And of course, to be fair, paper

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didn't even come to Europe until
the 11th century. 

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The Viking Age was, you know, 
roughly beginning around the 9th

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century. 
So yeah, they did have papyrus 

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way before paper in Europe, but 
not in Scandinavia because that 

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comes from Cypress plants. 
They don't exist anywhere near 

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Scandinavia. 
So this wasn't like a lost 

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technology, which is a theme of 
the things that were lost and 

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that needed to be rediscovered 
or that came back in some other 

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way because of a big apocalypse.
So this is not an example of 

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lost technology, but it is an 
interesting side note. 

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There's another big catch here, 
A Song of Ice and Fire, right? 

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We have bards all throughout A 
Song of Ice and Fire, and that's

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a medieval thing. 
And in Norse mythology or Norse,

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not mythology, but in the real 
Norse world, there were scalds, 

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poets basically. 
And that's how a lot of history 

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is maintained and remembered. 
And that's a connection to 

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cultural memory that we'll 
discuss. 

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The main source for basically 
everything myth wise in Norse 

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mythology is the Poetic Edda. 
It's a collection of poems in 

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Old Norse. 
It's anonymous, meaning that 

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they probably didn't all come 
from the same person, or if they

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did, we don't know who that was,
but probably many different 

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people. 
So there's a little bit about 

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sources and our approach today. 
Beginning in blood, the creation

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of the Norse world is extremely 
violent and bloody. 

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It's the tale of how their gods 
murdered to create the world. 

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It's important for us to 
remember because what we're 

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focused on is the connection 
between myth and reality. 

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Not just the Viking age of Earth
through Ragnarok, but Westeros's

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equivalent along Night. 
As will show, the era in which 

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the North mists evolved to what 
we know of today was terrible. 

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It's one of the worst times to 
be alive, hence such a horrific 

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and brutal creation myth. 
Right it. 

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We are the product of our 
environment. 

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We are the nature nurture 
dichotomy. 

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I believe both of those apply 
the nurture aspect of living in 

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one of the worst time periods to
ever exist for an entire society

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or all of Europe or what have 
you is going to look bleak and 

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grim and, well, the world. 
We emerge from horrors to be 

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what we are today. 
It's not the same as, you know, 

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the earth was created in seven 
days. 

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Let there be light. 
That's a lot, you know, nicer. 

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It's a lot calmer. 
It isn't as violent. 

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So not that the Bible doesn't 
have lots of violence in it, but

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the creation stuff, it's, you 
know, very different in that 

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sense and that vibe, right? 
So it's like, it's like thinking

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of a child, you know, if you 
take an individual child and if 

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they're raised to be violent, 
they're taught violence or 

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violence is all around them, 
they'll be violent. 

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Civilizations work that way too,
right? 

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If everything around them is 
violent, if you're born into 

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that, if they're a war-torn 
nation or multiple issues, 

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famine, war, all the things that
that's defining, isn't it? 

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As we're going to see, that is 
overwhelming here. 

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It is a huge part of it. 
We're going to come back to it 

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from a lot of different angles, 
and it's really quite something.

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00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,560
Also consider how relatively new
Norse mythology is. 

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How many other myth cycles were 
created less than 1500 years 

229
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,640
ago? 
That's after Christianity, which

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had already started dominating 
Europe well before the year 500 

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00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,000
or so. 
Yet the Norse mythos evolved 5 

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to 600 years after the birth of 
Christ. 

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00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,720
That's unusual, right? 
A new pantheon created at a time

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00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,160
when pantheons were fading out, 
right? 

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00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,120
It was more of an era of 
monotheism that emerged, right? 

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00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,680
This is very close to the 
beginning of Islam. 

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00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,400
Muhammad was born in 570. 
So that's also the 6th century 

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or around the same same time 
we're dealing with here because 

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00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,520
the real world events that we're
going to be discussing that 

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00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,280
helped shape the Norse world and
appear in the North miss as 

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00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,920
symbols and metaphor happened in
the 6th century. 

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00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,560
So we're going to get to that. 
It's really cool. 

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00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,600
Let's start off though, with 
some basics of Norse myth and 

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cosmology in order to set up 
those parallels and comparisons.

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Starting with Idrigisil. 
It's the world tree, the 

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00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,920
universe tree. 
There are many realms in Norse 

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00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,320
cosmology and the Idrigisil 
connects them all. 

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00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,480
It's a path like an astral gate,
lack of a better word, a 

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00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,480
dimensional portal almost. 
Imagine a super heart tree, the 

250
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,800
heart tree of heart trees, or 
just the entire weirwood 

251
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:28,280
network, which enables some 
people, not not many green seers

252
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,960
really, to see future and past. 
So it is kind of a portal to 

253
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,720
other worlds, right? 
And of course, a lot of you know

254
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,720
this already, but Bloodraven, 
who is of course, has a lot in 

255
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,360
common with Odin, especially the
lost eye, but also the 

256
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,640
association with Ravens, the 
sorcery in when Brand meets 

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00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,160
Bloodraven, he even has, you 
know, that missing eye has like 

258
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,760
a root growing out of it now. 
So it's like the tree is right 

259
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,840
there. 
It's he's part of the tree. 

260
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:59,800
So very, very similar. 
Bloodraven's purpose is to stop 

261
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,760
the next long night, which was 
Odin's purpose as well. 

262
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,360
He was trying to stop Ragnarok. 
Of course, he stumbled into 

263
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,600
another long standing fantasy 
parallel tropish kind of thing 

264
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,480
that George loves to use. 
Which is when you learn of a 

265
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,000
prophecy, you actually end up 
making it happen. 

266
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,600
You self fulfill it. 
That happens a lot. 

267
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,240
Just by trying to avert it, you 
actually cause it to happen. 

268
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,960
And that's a very common 
interpretation of what Odin 

269
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,080
ended up doing. 
The Adrasil, the tree is tended 

270
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,640
by the Norns, and the Norns are 
like the Fates, the Destiny 

271
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,360
creators, the shapers of 
Destiny. 

272
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,760
They weave the threads of all 
humans. 

273
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,720
And just as a little tidbit, 
George likes that naming 

274
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,400
convention of the YG. 
It's very distinct, like YG. 

275
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,920
How do you use that letter? 
How do you use those together? 

276
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,400
But he is specifically YG IG. 
The demon tree appears in the 

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00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,560
world of Ice and Fire as some 
ancient Ironborn story where the

278
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,400
first longboat was carved from 
it this demon tree that you 

279
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,080
know, 8 people and demanded 
blood, which is probably a 

280
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,000
metaphor for blood sacrifice, 
but it was definitely a weirwood

281
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,800
tree or a heart tree. 
So that's interesting. 

282
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,240
Little side note there from the 
world of ice and fire, but also 

283
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,920
just names like a grit YG writ 
right? 

284
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,040
Yeah, Free folk names are often 
older. 

285
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,280
They they go back to first man 
times. 

286
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,880
They're not as merged with other
cultures that came along 

287
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,120
afterwards other different first
man or even and all cultures. 

288
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,280
There's a thing called Mimus 
Bruner, which is a pool that's 

289
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,640
Mim's pool. 
Mim is a Mimir is a being. 

290
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,240
So there's Werewood's flanking 
Blood Ravens cave, and this is 

291
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,760
an Old Norse Toki and double 
influence here. 

292
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,480
Toki and famously wrote of the 
Two Trees of Valinor, which were

293
00:16:54,080 --> 00:17:00,840
originally part of the home of 
the gods for home of the elves, 

294
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,760
you know, in Valanor. 
So those were eventually 

295
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,280
destroyed by Morgoth and 
Mongolian. 

296
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:11,800
But side note here, the 
similarity is the 2 trees on 

297
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:15,800
either side. 
Now Tolkien himself drew trees 

298
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,359
flanking the entrance to the 
entrance of Moria. 

299
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,839
It's the only thing he ever drew
for Lord of the Rings apart from

300
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,119
cover art. 
So that's kind of interesting. 

301
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,920
So there's a wellspring beneath 
Idrizil. 

302
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,480
That's me mirrors. 
It's a pool of wisdom. 

303
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,360
This is how Odin got the wisdom 
that he sacrificed an eye to. 

304
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:36,440
He sacrificed. 
He took his eye out and dropped 

305
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,720
it into this wellspring, and 
that's how he got the ability to

306
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,680
drink out of it. 
And it gave him wisdom just as 

307
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,800
Bran drinks weirwood paste to 
open his third eye. 

308
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,760
So it's kind of like Odin gave 
up an eye. 

309
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,920
Bran got an extra 1 because 
Odin's already covered with 

310
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,000
blood. 
Raven right and he is the one 

311
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,760
connecting it so Bloodraven sort
of play it's like a step further

312
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,720
right instead of so you have 
Odin getting the knowledge from 

313
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,520
Mimir Bloodraven getting the 
knowledge from the whereward 

314
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:07,760
network passing that on to Bran 
the well of knowledge in Norse 

315
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,120
mythology is located in the 
realm of the frost Yutnar, which

316
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,160
are pretty much giants. 
It's the whole concept of giants

317
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,880
in Norse mythology is confusing.
I'm not going to get into it, 

318
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,000
but let's just say there's some 
good parallels and the 

319
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,400
understanding of giants in North
mythology is very skewed, but 

320
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,960
the influence is clear enough. 
George is drawing from that. 

321
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,920
Even if the original giants were
different. 

322
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,480
Frost, yotinar frost giants, 
right? 

323
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,320
Fitting enough parallel the 
lands beyond the wall, very cold

324
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,080
and the only place where giants 
still exist. 

325
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,240
Well, at least in Westeros, the 
only place they still exist. 

326
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,360
And again, through a Hartree's 
magic, you can see past and 

327
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,720
future anywhere, right? 
This is going to be seen as the 

328
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,120
well of knowledge like Mimus 
Bruner. 

329
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,840
So Brand drinks from the where 
would paste bowl and gets a 

330
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:59,320
similar intake of knowledge and 
and wisdom to carry forward 

331
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,640
directly associated with the end
of the world because that is 

332
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,480
what Odin was looking for too. 
He wasn't just looking for 

333
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,440
knowledge. 
He was looking for the knowledge

334
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,520
of the future. 
And that was the big thing you 

335
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,800
know he learned. 
So Christina says you could make

336
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,640
Bran the head of Mim that Odin 
is talking to, because Odin is 

337
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,840
talking to the head of Mim when 
Ragnarok breaks out. 

338
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:29,440
So that's a, that's a possible 
parallel there, the Others 

339
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,000
versus the Others. 
Again, Norse myth can be 

340
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,960
confusing, not just about 
giants, but what is a God? 

341
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,920
There's a lot of blurred lines 
there, and some of it's just 

342
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,480
unknown. 
It's blurred because we don't 

343
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,960
know, but some of it seems just 
blurred within itself. 

344
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,640
There are beings that just don't
fit neatly into categorization 

345
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,560
in other myth cycles are in 
fiction as well. 

346
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,000
But generally speaking in Norse 
mythology, if it's not human or 

347
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,240
of the gods, it's the Others. 
And of course there Others are 

348
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,040
way different. 
There Others are giants, elves, 

349
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,360
dwarfs, seers, monsters, things 
like that. 

350
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,320
The Others of Westeros are not 
such a broad category. 

351
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,200
But they are mysterious, right? 
They're very specific White 

352
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,920
Walkers. 
But there is a bit of comparison

353
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,600
to be made here with them and 
the Valkyries. 

354
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,760
Now, we don't even know whether 
the Valkyries count as others or

355
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,160
as of the gods because they are 
servants of the gods. 

356
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,680
But that doesn't mean they are. 
So it's see how that's 

357
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,720
confusing? 
But that doesn't matter here. 

358
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,960
What matters is you might be 
like Valkyries and the others. 

359
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,520
The how do you how do you get 
there? 

360
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,560
Well, first of all, the others 
are frightening and terrifying 

361
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,280
to behold, right? 
Valkyries are too. 

362
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,520
They are very commonly portrayed
as beautiful or buxom women or 

363
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,160
whatever, and that is just not 
at all accurate to Norse 

364
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,000
mythology. 
They're terrifying. 

365
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,440
They each are like the 
embodiment of things that happen

366
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,920
in battle. 
Like one of them is called spear

367
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,600
thrower. 
One of them is called battle 

368
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:57,840
rage. 
You know, they have all these 

369
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,200
just like spear scraper and 
shield biter, just all these 

370
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,240
like small aspects of what 
happens during a battle or 

371
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,800
during warfare. 
But here's where the comparison 

372
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,800
gets stronger, right? 
What is the point of a Valkyrie?

373
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,880
They escort the souls of the 
brave that fall in battle to 

374
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,440
Valhalla, right? 
Every That that part's well 

375
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:17,480
known. 
But why? 

376
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,160
To fight in Ragnarok? 
They're being saved like you're 

377
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,720
one of the best. 
We're gonna we're gonna need you

378
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:28,080
later for that final battle. 
So what do the White Walkers do?

379
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,520
They raise the dead to fight in 
something like a last battle or 

380
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,240
Battle for the Dawn. 
Well, for them, they don't want 

381
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,840
it to end that way because they 
lose, but it's still a climactic

382
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,920
final battle between the great 
powers. 

383
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,480
This is going to continue to be 
something we talked about 

384
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,720
throughout the episode in in 
terms of the Westeros 

385
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,000
equivalent, they're called the 
elder races. 

386
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,200
So the Others are just the White
Walkers, whereas giants are part

387
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,720
of the elder races. 
So are the children. 

388
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,400
Skin changers fit pretty well in
Norse mythology. 

389
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,400
There are shape changers, 
especially wolf people, things 

390
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,240
like that, as well as Ravens and
other things. 

391
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,080
There are elves and dwarfs in 
Norse mythology. 

392
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,640
The dwarfs don't really have a 
great parallel in the Song of 

393
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,480
Ice and Fire. 
The elves kind of do. 

394
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,000
They're a little bit like the 
Children of the Forest in some 

395
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,280
ways. 
It's also neat that there's dark

396
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,120
elves and light elves. 
That's that's where that came 

397
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,480
from. 
And we don't know of different 

398
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,640
species among the children like 
dark and light, children of the 

399
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:24,880
forest, something along those 
lines. 

400
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,120
But we have and others have 
theorized about factionalism 

401
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,760
within the children. 
Like the big one would be those 

402
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,440
who were pro creating and 
unleashing the others, whereas 

403
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,360
there would have been maybe some
children of the forest who were 

404
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,240
against that. 
I'm like, no, we don't want to 

405
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,440
do that. 
That's too devastating, too 

406
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,720
destructive. 
Anyway, that might not have 

407
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,040
happened at all, but it's a it's
a great idea. 

408
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,720
So that's a vivid picture, I 
hope, of the relevant era and 

409
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,080
some important relevant aspects 
of the mythos is of course a lot

410
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,280
more to it, but we'd be getting 
off page or off topic with that.

411
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,440
So let's talk about how all that
gets obliterated. 

412
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,840
Ragnarok quote Wolves. 
Will swallow the sun and moon. 

413
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,600
The white hot stars will sink 
into the sea and shroud the 

414
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,840
world in steam. 
The powers of the night will 

415
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:24,640
pour through a hole in the sky, 
and the gods will March to war 

416
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,600
for the last time. 
There's various. 

417
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,320
Translations of that. 
But one. 

418
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,880
I like that. 
Could also be a title is 

419
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,160
Twilight of the Gods. 
It sort of means to grow dark. 

420
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,800
One interpretation is that. 
So growing dark is very fitting 

421
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,640
here. 
Now it's a misconception to 

422
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,640
think that Ragnarok is just a 
big battle. 

423
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,240
Ragnarok includes all the events
surrounding the big battle, the 

424
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,720
build up to it and the 
afterwards. 

425
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,680
It's all of that. 
It's the all the parts of the 

426
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,200
end of the world. 
Yes, there is a big final boss 

427
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,720
battle between all the bosses on
either side, Acer, Vanier, 

428
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,840
celestial objects, geographical 
events, you know, but it's not 

429
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,840
everything. 
The whole thing is Ragnarok, can

430
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,760
I say. 
Aziz yeah. 

431
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,360
When you said Twilight of the 
Gods, did you know there's an 

432
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,960
animated Norse mythology show 
called The Twilight of the Gods?

433
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,800
Nope. 
That's neat. 

434
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,800
It came out pretty recently. 
That's cool. 

435
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,920
How about that last year? 
Makes sense that they would 

436
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,840
choose that. 
It's a great title. 

437
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,000
So just like what seems to be a 
slow burn of the new Long Night,

438
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,760
it's something that just drops 
all of a sudden. 

439
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,200
It builds up. 
There's a prophecy, there's the 

440
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,960
onset of winter, there's others 
appear. 

441
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,200
It kind of goes from there. 
It isn't just as all of a 

442
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,560
sudden. 
And that's true with Ragnarok as

443
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,960
well. 
Like the right, the white Raven 

444
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,720
means winter, you know, the 
others themselves are probably 

445
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,520
the worst omen. 
It's like, whoa, they're 

446
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,520
actually here, and that means a 
mighty winter is coming. 

447
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,560
And that also is the truth for 
Ragnarok. 

448
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,560
There's lots of prophecy, as I 
told you. 

449
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:58,120
Odin seeks foreknowledge and 
gets it and it messes him up a 

450
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:03,440
bit, doesn't it? 
Horns, when the instruments like

451
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,720
horns or flutes are arguably the
oldest musical instrument. 

452
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,520
You can count banging rocks 
together as music though, so 

453
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,120
that's just as old as hell. 
You can as as long as people 

454
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,840
have been banging rocks 
together, you can call that 

455
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,360
music, so whatever. 
Anyway, horns are really old. 

456
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,080
That's good enough for us. 
The oldest instrument ever found

457
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,120
on Earth so far is the 
Neanderthal flute. 

458
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,040
There's this, this one, this 
specific one that's super old, 

459
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,960
60,000 years old. 
I don't know how, like there's 

460
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080
rocks older than that, but who 
knows whether they were banged 

461
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,600
on other racks to make music. 
Didgeridoo of northern 

462
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,920
Australian Aborigine people. 
There have, they've been, those 

463
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,240
have been found. 
Some of the oldest one is 40,000

464
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,840
years old. 
It was made from hollowed out 

465
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,560
eucalyptus, not hollowed out by 
people, but by termites. 

466
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,000
King Tut's tomb had metal 
trumpets that were forged in 

467
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,120
5000 BC, silver and bronze. 
So yeah, there you go. 

468
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,840
Here we have Heimdall and the 
Night's Watch to compare. 

469
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:03,480
Heimdall stands on the wall and 
watches for Ragnarok. 

470
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,680
His job is the eternal watch 
person waiting for the end of 

471
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,800
the world. 
The guy who warns everyone that,

472
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,920
hey, it's beginning. 
He is the brightest slash 

473
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,320
whitest God. 
He has golden teeth. 

474
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,000
So he's descriptively the 
opposite from the Night's Watch 

475
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,160
in that sense with all the white
and gold. 

476
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,080
But that's the Kingsguard. 
So it's kind of an element of 

477
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,640
both of those is here in 
Heimdall. 

478
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,520
Basically, you could say they're
both his children, Heimdall's 

479
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,280
children, or the King's Guard in
the Night's Watch. 

480
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,920
And when Ragnarok comes, what 
does Heimdall do? 

481
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,640
He blows his horn not three 
times, but someone else blows 

482
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,160
them three times. 
So we'll get to that. 

483
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,800
Next we have the Horn of Winter 
slash, Joraman's horn. 

484
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,400
Let's hear about that quote the 
first. 

485
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,880
King beyond the Wall, according 
to legend, was Joraman, who 

486
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,320
claimed to have a horn that 
would bring down the wall when 

487
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,960
it quote woke the giants from 
the earth. 

488
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,200
Yorman or Jorman, which is one 
letter away from Jorman, just 

489
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,000
put an A in the middle in Old 
Norse means something huge or 

490
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,440
superhuman, which that's fairly 
fitting. 

491
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,880
A horn that wakes the sleepers. 
Well, a horn that signals the 

492
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,440
end of the world or raises or 
wakes the sleepers, in this case

493
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,920
the giants. 
Of course this is a metaphor for

494
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,600
an earthquake, but it can be 
taken literally and both work 

495
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,240
because the long night maybe 
will be accompanied by natural 

496
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,040
disasters. 
Ragnarok definitely was and in 

497
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,120
this, so that's the horn waking 
the sleepers. 

498
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,960
In terms of the giants are the 
earthquake that's rumbling. 

499
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,600
They're the metaphor for that. 
But in terms of literal giants, 

500
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,720
well, the giants are a big part 
of Ragnarok. 

501
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,040
Them attacking, being part of 
the assault force against the 

502
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,560
Norse gods is similar enough to 
the placement of the giants as 

503
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,640
reappearing to, from human 
perspective, the humans, most 

504
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,800
humans thought the giants had 
died out, but they are coming 

505
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,800
back now as the long night is 
nigh. 

506
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,880
And they're like, oh, but 
there's giants after all. 

507
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,080
So the giants appear when these 
things are happening, which is 

508
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,600
kind of similar, not quite as 
similar as some of these other 

509
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:13,720
things. 
We could definitely see that 

510
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,960
connection. 
So I think that it's more likely

511
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,120
a metaphor for earthquake, but 
it works both ways, you know, 

512
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,240
And if it brings down the wall, 
if that is what happens, or if 

513
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,600
some other horn or some other 
thing brings down the wall, 

514
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:30,160
well, that's an obvious end of 
the world type event, you know, 

515
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,600
apocalyptic type thing. 
The wall as massive structure 

516
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,560
comes down and evil pours 
through. 

517
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,640
The quote, as Shea read earlier,
I meant to refer to the the 

518
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,240
powers of the night will pour 
through a hole in the sky, the 

519
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,720
powers of the night. 
Like you could absolutely call 

520
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,360
the others powers of the night, 
right? 

521
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,840
They only come at night. 
And so that's very fitting. 

522
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,440
So that pouring through a hole 
in the sky could be taken as a 

523
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,200
parallel to pouring through a 
break in the wall. 

524
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,800
So the horn is just one of many 
portents of many in a Song of 

525
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,240
Ice and Fire that shows the 
return of magic. 

526
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,400
It's something that gets brought
up a lot in the early books, 

527
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,760
like Corin Halfan saying the 
trees have eyes again, Old Nan 

528
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,160
saying what she says, OSHA 
saying what she says. 

529
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,600
There's lots of these things, 
right? 

530
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,160
They come up all over the place 
and that's pretty important. 

531
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,840
Now, just as an aside, it's not 
as direct here, but I wanted to 

532
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,640
mention it. 
Odin is also associated with the

533
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,520
Wild Hunt. 
The Wild Hunt isn't really a 

534
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,000
Norse thing, kind of is, but 
it's really more of a Celtic 

535
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,640
origin thing. 
But it's been adopted by a lot 

536
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,360
of different mythologies or been
associated with and it's a it's 

537
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,760
a procession of the dead, which 
you could see that as something 

538
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,760
other like they're leading the 
dead, you know, in a procession 

539
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,600
through that any and anyone 
that's caught up in it is forced

540
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,080
to join them, which is it's very
much like the others. 

541
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,720
So at least one person in a song
of Ice and fire sees the horn of

542
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,280
winter, the horn of Jorman. 
If if they're the same thing as 

543
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,600
an artifact that would do more 
than Porten doom or the onset of

544
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,880
a long night, it would help 
'cause it quote the. 

545
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,280
Horn of Jorman Melisandre said 
no. 

546
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:17,560
Call it the Horn of Darkness. 
If the wall falls, night falls 

547
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,280
as well. 
The long night that never ends. 

548
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,120
It must not happen, will not 
happen. 

549
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,200
The Lord of Light has seen his 
children in their peril and sent

550
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,480
a champion to them. 
Azor Ahai reborn since we. 

551
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,880
Don't know how all this turns 
out. 

552
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,960
We don't know if trying to 
fulfill the prophecy like Odin 

553
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,240
did and ended up making it 
happen, trying to avoid it and 

554
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,000
making it happen. 
If Melisandre, if anyone is 

555
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,800
guilty of that, it might be her 
of, of trying to make it happen 

556
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,200
and actually contributing to it,
but maybe not. 

557
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,000
Maybe there's somebody else. 
Maybe we'll find out that 

558
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,360
somebody kicked it off a while 
ago. 

559
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,520
We don't know that, you know, we
just haven't learned that yet. 

560
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:10,680
So that is something that we can
maybe think about later when we 

561
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,840
have more information, but it 
seems like it's it's going to 

562
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:20,000
connect even more when we when 
we get there thimble winter. 

563
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,800
That means mighty winter. 
It's specifically 3 successive 

564
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,760
winters without a summer. 
Specifically, a quote that says 

565
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,280
black become the sun's beams in 
the summers that follow weathers

566
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,760
are treacherous, which is 
artificial sounding like the 

567
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,120
others. 
Bringing it now funny, Fimble 

568
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,520
Winter. 
There is of course, a black 

569
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,120
metal band called Fimble Winter.
Of course there is, right? 

570
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,440
But Can you imagine being that 
band? 

571
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,400
You're like, let's call 
ourselves Fimble Winter. 

572
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,200
Another guy in the band's like, 
come on, that name's got to be 

573
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,120
taken already. 
Nope, it was not, at least for 

574
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,960
them, the one group that got it.
So it has to be understood that 

575
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,560
a mighty winter, a devastating 
winter is scarier to 

576
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,080
Scandinavians and other people 
who live on the extremes because

577
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,960
they're barely making it. 
So if things get a little worse,

578
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,320
they can't make it anymore. 
That scraping out a living on 

579
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,560
the extremes of society or 
extremes of climate, all of a 

580
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,200
sudden you can't do that 
anymore. 

581
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,680
It only needs to be a little bit
colder to get rid of whatever 

582
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,920
little bit of growth, little bit
of sustaining life 

583
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,200
sustainability that exists in 
this area is going to go, it's 

584
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,840
going to be gone because it's a 
little bit colder. 

585
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,680
That's all it takes. 
So of course, a culture that is 

586
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,800
associated with that, that deals
with that, that has that hanging

587
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,160
over their head at any time, 
it's going to be a great 

588
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,800
concern. 
It's going to be a part of their

589
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,720
myths, their traditions, their 
everything. 

590
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,320
It's connected to all of it 
because it's so vitally 

591
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,560
important and to their society, 
to their existence. 

592
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Like think of a place like, I 
don't know the the tropics. 

593
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,320
If it gets a little bit colder 
there, that does affect things. 

594
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,960
Certain plants may not survive 
any anymore, but others will 

595
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,560
replace it. 
There's still it's still a 

596
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
fertile area, but it's still not
super cold. 

597
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,000
It's still warm enough to 
support life. 

598
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,760
But again, in those areas where 
it's. 

599
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,800
Barely warm enough to. 
Support life. 

600
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,200
It gets a little bit colder. 
That's it. 

601
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,840
If it gets a lot colder, well, I
mean, it's just that much worse.

602
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,280
So this adds up to an event 
that's just scarier to imagine 

603
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,120
than it would be elsewhere if 
you're a Persian. 

604
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,840
And the Persians will come up a 
lot in this episodes. 

605
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,920
Surprisingly, Iranians and the 
people of that area, they live 

606
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,320
in deserts and steppes. 
They've in dry areas. 

607
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,240
So their equivalence would be 
like a heat storm or 

608
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,640
overwhelming heat, something 
like the the endless heat, you 

609
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,760
know, fimble summer, something 
like that. 

610
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,640
So to them, night actually has a
positive association because 

611
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,240
that's when it's not so hot. 
You know, they know darkness and

612
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,200
cold, but it's not nearly as a 
concern to them as heat. 

613
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,280
The heat's the bigger worry for 
them. 

614
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,600
So night even has a positive 
element to it. 

615
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,600
So even that's completely 
flipped, Right. 

616
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,400
And in Scandinavia, you're like,
no, night is when it's just we 

617
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,240
can barely get through this. 
We need fires, we need furs, you

618
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,760
know. 
Yeah, it's totally, totally 

619
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,280
different views. 
So this is, it's important to 

620
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,520
consider cultural relativity 
here. 

621
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,280
And there's, there's a lot of 
that in this episode too. 

622
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,760
And this is very similar to the 
North, right? 

623
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,800
The North isn't all about 
thinking about the heat and 

624
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,000
desert. 
They don't care about that. 

625
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,679
All their cultural touchstones, 
all their mythology is about the

626
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:28,360
long night winters. 
It's all wrapped up in that. 

627
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,159
And Dorn, though that's more 
like the Persians, the example 

628
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,800
that we just gave, they're 
familiar with cold, but it's the

629
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:41,760
desert that defines their 
existence, like a Blackstone. 

630
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,560
The Bloodstone Emperor famously 
worshipped a Blackstone that 

631
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,360
fell from the sky instead of the
traditional gods of his people, 

632
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,000
whoever they were. 
Well, it would be the Maiden of 

633
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,360
Light and the Lion of Night 
probably 'cause that's who 

634
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,920
founded the the Gemstone Emperor
dynasty. 

635
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,720
And that is 1 tale of how the 
long Night started, one of many 

636
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:08,080
that were given. 
And it's followed by torture, 

637
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,200
the dark arts, necromancy, he 
enslaved his own people, 

638
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,560
cannibalism, bestiality, a 
smorgasbord of the absolute 

639
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,160
worst human behavior which 
emerges during the worst times. 

640
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,480
Here's the Ragnarok equivalent 
of that quote. 

641
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,960
Brothers will fight and kill 
each other. 

642
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,400
Sisters, children will defile 
kinship. 

643
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,880
It is harsh in the world. 
Whoredom rife An axe age, a 

644
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:42,440
sword age Shields a riven a wind
age, a wolf age. 

645
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,240
Before the world goes headlong, 
no man will have mercy on 

646
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,880
another. 
Now, to be clear, these quotes 

647
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,200
are coming from a vulva, which 
is a rough word to be saying. 

648
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,680
It's that's what it's the Norse 
word for seer. 

649
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,320
Seer S Odin is speaking to this 
CRS. 

650
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,360
I'll just say CRS and this is 
what she's telling him. 

651
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,880
These are the words of that 
Cirrus telling Odin about 

652
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,680
Ragnarok. 
Now of course, this is 

653
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,400
translated and the translation 
requires some translation. 

654
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,320
Let's look at it line by line to
in order to point out how 

655
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,440
similar it is to the case of the
Bloodstone Emperor and other 

656
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,440
similar ones. 
Brothers will fight and kill 

657
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,160
each other. 
That's a pretty straightforward 

658
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,440
metaphor for civil war or civil 
strife. 

659
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,880
Sister's children will defile 
kinship. 

660
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,560
That means incest. 
Resources are scarce, it's harsh

661
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,160
in the world whoredom rife, an 
axe age, a sword age. 

662
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,720
It's people live only just like 
they're lust. 

663
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,400
People do not see a future. 
There's no outlook, there's no 

664
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,080
positive outlook. 
So it's just enjoy what you can 

665
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,360
while you're alive, you know, 
fulfill your basest needs. 

666
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,640
There is no civilization. 
Armies clash over limited 

667
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,000
resources, which is the axe age.
Swordage Shields a ribbon bit, 

668
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:02,160
but in that only serves to 
quicken the downfall of society.

669
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,440
A wind age a wolf age humans 
behave increasingly like 

670
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:11,920
predatory animals or not 
predatory animals who get preyed

671
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,000
on the no man will have mercy on
another. 

672
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,200
That's basically every man for 
himself kindness, compassion, 

673
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,880
empathy. 
They're gone. 

674
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,520
The most powerful positive human
emotions are nowhere to be 

675
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,640
found. 
They're they're a memory. 

676
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,800
If that right, they're like who 
could have time for that? 

677
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,280
You know, you're living through 
all that, like compassion, like 

678
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,000
when that sounds so foreign 
empathy. 

679
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,520
I can't, I could barely get by 
myself. 

680
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,200
You know, I'm, I died almost 
three times last month. 

681
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,440
Like, I don't have time for 
that. 

682
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,600
I don't have, I don't have the 
ability to help other people. 

683
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,000
Sad, right? 
Just so much of it's gone. 

684
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,240
But this is not the end yet. 
That's building up to the end. 

685
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,400
This is all a prelude to 
Ragnarok. 

686
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,760
These things are happening to 
foreshadow it. 

687
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,240
And then it comes. 
Christina says the cadence of 

688
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:05,360
that, of these quotes from the 
CRS are similar to the Long 

689
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,720
Night tales, right? 
So we'll, when we come back to 

690
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:09,000
the Long Night, we'll get those 
quotes. 

691
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,520
So let's have that Bloodstone 
Emperor quote in full. 

692
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,960
The rest of it, which reflects 
on this almost exactly. 

693
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,840
The time scale's a little 
different, but the point is the 

694
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,640
same. 
I'm sure you'll get it quote. 

695
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,800
The Jade Emperor. 
The Tourmaline Emperor, The Onyx

696
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,960
Emperor, The Topaz Emperor, and 
the Opal Emperor followed in 

697
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,000
turn, each reigning for 
centuries. 

698
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,080
Yet every rain was shorter and 
more troubled than the one 

699
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,360
preceding it. 
Four wild men and baleful beasts

700
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,320
pressed at the borders of the 
Great Empire. 

701
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,040
Lesser kings grew prideful and 
rebellious, and the common 

702
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:58,880
people gave themselves over to 
avarice, envy, lust, murder, 

703
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,960
incest, gluttony, and slaw 
basically. 

704
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,120
A modified version of the Seven 
Deadly Sins. 

705
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,240
There, There were seven of them 
exactly. 

706
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,800
And this is a fitting parallel 
because the point is the same in

707
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,240
all these conditions with regard
to humanity's fate, both before 

708
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:18,520
and after Ragnarok or the Long 
Night. 

709
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,760
When conditions are at the 
worst, people are at their 

710
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,360
worst. 
They become capable of things 

711
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,840
they would never have done. 
And those who are already 

712
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,920
capable of doing the worst, you 
know, the psychopaths that exist

713
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,160
among us, well, it's like their 
time. 

714
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:36,040
It's the brief time, because 
this is never going to last. 

715
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,920
The end of the world is a good 
time to exist if you're a 

716
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,200
murderous psycho because you 
never had that long anyway. 

717
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,080
If you're going to go about 
murdering people, like, how long

718
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,240
are you going to do that? 
How long will you live if you're

719
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,200
doing that? 
But at a time like this, you 

720
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,360
might get away with it for a 
while. 

721
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,120
It's one of the best arguments 
to having the civilization in 

722
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,160
the 1st place. 
Keep people like that in line. 

723
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,880
You know, this is a fantastical 
thing, but societal breakdown, I

724
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,240
mean it, it really happened. 
Societal breakdowns have 

725
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,240
happened all over the place in 
the real world. 

726
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,480
So I love that description 
there. 

727
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,840
It's not Westeros, but that's 
the point. 

728
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,040
It's these things happened all 
around the globe. 

729
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,640
Westeros was hit the hardest 
'cause that's where the others 

730
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,320
came. 
But the whole world had this 

731
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,960
long winter, these darkness and.
In the case of the gemstone 

732
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,120
emperors, it was a much slower 
decline, or at least the the 

733
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:25,960
legends tell us it was a slower 
decline. 

734
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,680
Maybe each emperor didn't 
actually reign for centuries, or

735
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,240
maybe those were dynasties 
rather than individual rulers. 

736
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,600
Regardless, those people 
descended from gods the maiden 

737
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,160
made of light in the Lion of 
Night and ended up like this. 

738
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,520
You know, they declined. 
It's like the beginning of their

739
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,840
cycle was the maiden made of 
light in the light of night, 

740
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,840
forming the gods that was their 
creation, and this is them near 

741
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,440
the end of that. 
And it is what happened because 

742
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,520
this was pre the Long Night. 
This happened before the Long 

743
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,160
Night and after it. 
Well, the Green Empire of the 

744
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,520
Dawn wasn't even a thing after 
the Long Night, was it? 

745
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,400
Maybe a portion of it survived 
in ETET might be like the 

746
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:06,960
offshoot of it. 
Which makes sense. 

747
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,000
The entire thing wouldn't be 
wiped out, right? 

748
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,400
But it was a big reset, a 
complete start over with just 

749
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,880
some few bits and pieces 
leftover from the previous. 

750
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,560
A survival mechanism amongst 
people in times like this is 

751
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,160
banded together, like community 
small, community small. 

752
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,440
Just you need to help each 
other. 

753
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Not because it's a sympathetic 
thing. 

754
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,840
It's not about sympathy 
necessarily, although it can be.

755
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,200
It's about we're not going to 
make it with without, without 

756
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,920
helping each other. 
Like we need to divide up the 

757
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,720
labor like I do this, you go 
chop wood, you go do that. 

758
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:40,560
We we all need to help each 
other or none of it. 

759
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,000
We can't survive individually. 
They're just, there's just no 

760
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,160
basis for that. 
There's no markets to buy 

761
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,200
things. 
There's no people to trade with.

762
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,760
You would just everybody's just 
back to basic subsistence. 

763
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,640
You got to go fishing on your 
own, you got to go hunting on 

764
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,240
your own. 
You got to make your own weapons

765
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,600
unless you can steal them, but 
there's nowhere to buy them 

766
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,280
anymore for the most part. 
It's just everything's falling 

767
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,880
apart. 
So rough, huh? 

768
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,480
Final battle. 
Here's what actually happens in 

769
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,960
the climax of Ragnarok. 
The actual battle part. 

770
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,000
This comes from again, Poetic 
Edda, the Voluspa. 

771
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,800
Again, this same CRS tells Odin 
quote it. 

772
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,640
Sates itself on the lifeblood of
fated men. 

773
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,920
Paints red the powers. 
Homes with Crimson, gore, black.

774
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,920
Become the sun's beams in the 
summers that follow weathers all

775
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,400
treacherous. 
Do you still seek to know? 

776
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,520
And what? 
Do you still seek to know That's

777
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,880
like the seer is saying, Are you
sure you want to know the future

778
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,400
'cause you it's going to mess 
you up, you might self fulfill 

779
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,880
it or whatever. 
The lifeblood of fated men, 

780
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,040
Christina says that's men who 
are fated to die this way. 

781
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,240
The the Vikings had a big thing 
for fate. 

782
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:01,680
Fate was a understood often to 
be set woven by the norms, 

783
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,160
right? 
So you can't really change it, 

784
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,000
which is similar to this concept
of Ragnarok's going to happen. 

785
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,920
You can't stop it. 
And if you try to stop it, 

786
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,280
you'll only make it happen 
sooner. 

787
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,160
So after this, the beginning, 
that's the the opening quote, 

788
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:25,480
but the actual kick off of 
Ragnarok is you have 3 Roosters 

789
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,400
crowing. 
Remember before I said Heimdall 

790
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,520
blows his horn, that's followed 
by three Roosters crowing. 

791
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,720
So there's your three, right? 
The three horn blasts and the, 

792
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,640
the Roosters are Crimson, gold 
and soot red. 

793
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,000
So it's kind of like Crimson, 
gold and black. 

794
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,160
And this is even cooler of a 
parallel if you think about it, 

795
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:47,040
because yeah, the Night's Watch,
they're crows, so they're also 

796
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,400
burnt Roosters. 
Roosters crowing, crowing, 3 

797
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,200
horn blasts. 
It's all very wrapped up 

798
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,880
together. 
And we referenced this before, 

799
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,600
but it bears repeating. 
Black become the sun's beams. 

800
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,320
No light at all. 
Nope. 

801
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,520
Just constant night. 
Straightforward, right? 

802
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,000
Next up, a giant named Egg Fair 
sits and plays his harp 

803
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,560
cheerfully, like to. 
He's like a Caligula of sorts. 

804
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,160
Like. 
Or is it Nero? 

805
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,800
Yeah, Nero. 
The one that fiddled on the roof

806
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,200
while Rome burns. 
That didn't really happen, but 

807
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:18,560
it's a surviving, you know, 
image that works to be a 

808
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,080
parallel here. 
Then the wolf Garmier, which is 

809
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,520
probably Fenrir, but that's it's
not my business to parse that. 

810
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,280
We'll just say this giant wolf 
breaks his chains and escapes. 

811
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,760
The sons of Mim are in play. 
That the one we talked about 

812
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,920
with the wellspring earlier, 
Heimdall again blows that horn. 

813
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,600
Odin talks to Mim's head and 
these prophecy things happen. 

814
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,960
The tree, the world Tree itself 
shudders and groans. 

815
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,160
So the whole fabric of existence
shakes. 

816
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,200
That's a big deal, right? 
Let's take the whole universe 

817
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,960
shaking. 
A giant named Herm leads the 

818
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,600
giants against the gods. 
He emerges leading this host of 

819
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,440
giants and whoa, that's a big 
deal, right? 

820
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,120
Yorman Gander writhes and 
separates himself. 

821
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,400
Yorman Gander is the world 
serpent that surrounds the whole

822
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,280
globe, and he's the he's a 
symbol of Uroboros, a serpent 

823
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,480
biting its own tail. 
At the point of Ragnarok, he 

824
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,560
lets go of his own tail, which 
messes up the water situation 

825
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,240
around the earth and causes 
tidal waves. 

826
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,760
So there's one of your natural 
does that one of many natural 

827
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,960
disasters, the wind, which is 
personified in Norse myth as a 

828
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,360
yotun shaped like an eagle. 
A yotun's sort of like a giant, 

829
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,760
but not any like I said, it's 
confusing. 

830
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,080
He goes wild. 
So the that means the wind goes 

831
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,520
wild. 
The nail ship sails. 

832
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,280
This is Nagle far. 
This is creepy as hell. 

833
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,800
The nail ship. 
You'd be like what? 

834
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,520
What nails like from hammers and
no human fingernails and 

835
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,040
toenails. 
It's a ship entirely made out of

836
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,440
finger and toenails from the 
slain. 

837
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,360
This sails. 
It's like a portent of doom. 

838
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,760
I guess our closest parallel to 
that is is you're on silence. 

839
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,800
Perhaps something like that. 
One of the worst ships that's 

840
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,560
ever sailed, bringing some of 
the worst outcomes. 

841
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,040
But the land of the Yoton is 
ready for a fight as well. 

842
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,560
The gods are in council trying 
to decide what to do. 

843
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,600
Search her. 
The fire giant fire Yoton 

844
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,200
advances with a flaming sword as
bright as the sun. 

845
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,200
Hello, Lightbringer. 
Lightbringer's described as 

846
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,360
bright as the sun a couple of 
times and it's obviously a 

847
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,440
flaming sword. 
There's there's earthquakes as 

848
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,640
well, although that was probably
already covered with the 

849
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,120
Jigrazil shuttering and Yorman 
gander writing. 

850
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,200
But it's you know, let's clarify
that. 

851
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,160
And then the battle itself. 
Odin is swallowed whole by 

852
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:39,400
Fenrir Frig. 
His wife is stricken by her 

853
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,840
quote. 
Second sorrow, which reminds me 

854
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,920
a bit of the second quarrel of 
Jaharis and Alison. 

855
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:50,440
The first sorrow was the death 
of Frigg's son and Alison and 

856
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,880
Jaharis quarreled over the 
succession after the death of 

857
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,280
their first son. 
That was the first quarrel. 

858
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,720
So that is loose parallel there.
Vidar, son of Odin kills Fenrir 

859
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:02,440
in revenge for Odin getting 
killed. 

860
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,200
Now you got to kill that 
rampaging wolf no matter what, 

861
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,320
but fittingly done by a son of 
Odin. 

862
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,600
Thor fights Yorman ganders like 
whoa. 

863
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,840
Thor fights the world serpent 
like what a thing to take on. 

864
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,840
Thor actually wins too, like 
whoa. 

865
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,080
But he dies. 
He takes 9 steps after winning 

866
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,560
and then collapses from its 
venom. 9 is very important in 

867
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:26,760
Norse mythology. 
And guess how many crown points 

868
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,880
were on Rob's crown of the N 9? 
That's right. 

869
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,400
Also you can sort of see this is
a very loose symbology for 

870
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,960
Robert and Rhaegar. 
Robert fighting Rhaegar. 

871
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,400
Rhaegar is the world serpent, 
the one they are the ones that 

872
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,560
had the world encircled because 
that's the the current dynasty 

873
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,200
in power. 
And Robert is a big old 

874
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,880
warhammer, right, That's Thor. 
Thor. 

875
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,720
What's weird about Thor is he 
has that giant hammer. 

876
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:54,760
He fights with warhammers and 
hammers were not weapons used by

877
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,560
Norsemen in battle. 
So it's a little, it's kind of a

878
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,920
kind of a quirk there. 
And then we have Robert's two 

879
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,440
adult sons are right, Gendry and
Edric. 

880
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,320
Storm and Thor's two sons 
survive, which is, well, 

881
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:13,880
Robert's dead. 
He's got those two sons. 

882
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,200
Yeah. 
Freyr loses to Sirt, the fire 

883
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,840
giant guy. 
And then shortly after, that's 

884
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,120
pretty much all the fights. 
There's a few, probably some 

885
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,720
more that just aren't described.
But at the end of Ragnarok, the 

886
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:31,040
world is engulfed in flame. 
The sun turns black, which maybe

887
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,240
kind of already happened. 
It's it's kind of, you know, 

888
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,200
repeats itself, I guess. 
The earth sinks below the sea. 

889
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,400
The stars vanish. 
Steam rises to cover all of 

890
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,760
existence, of which there is 
what what existence is even left

891
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,400
at that point. 
So I guess we just have a world 

892
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,760
of steam. 
And the dragon need hog flies 

893
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,160
with corpses in its jaws. 
The dragon is something of a 

894
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,320
herald of doom, or perhaps 
marking a transition point 

895
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,200
between two epochs. 
Danny's Dragons are doing 

896
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,920
something similar here. 
They came back, the Dragons came

897
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:05,320
back just in time to be part of 
this world changing event, this 

898
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,880
ushering in of a new era 
perhaps. 

899
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,720
And they're going to play a role
in that. 

900
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:14,360
So after Ragnarok, a new world 
emerges from the ashes. 

901
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,080
The gods meet at a place called 
Ethavol, which is translates 

902
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,920
loosely as a splendor plane. 
The gods meet there in the 

903
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,920
beginning of the cycle too way, 
you know, as the last Ragnarok 

904
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,600
ended, the beginning of the 
world happened. 

905
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,840
They did this too. 
So they're doing it again. 

906
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,640
This most recent Ragnarok. 
And the first one wouldn't have 

907
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,520
been called Ragnarok, but it 
would have been a similar world 

908
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,920
ending thing that kicked off the
cycle that this newest Ragnarok 

909
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,560
represents the end of. 
So those they meet and build 

910
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,200
shrines and temples and forges 
and tools. 

911
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,680
It's a whole new beginning, 
right? 

912
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,000
And what, by the way, that's an,
as an aside, a peculiar quirk of

913
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,760
Norse mythology, Norse gods, 
they're the only gods in any 

914
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,480
pantheon we know of that build 
their own temples to worship 

915
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,400
what, though? 
We have no idea. 

916
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,320
So they're worshipping something
even higher. 

917
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,520
They're worshiping each other. 
They worship themselves. 

918
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,080
It's so unusual, isn't it? 
No other myth cycle has anything

919
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,080
like that or, or anything that 
is so strict and complete like 

920
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:18,920
that. 
So they meet again after 

921
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,920
Ragnarok and build again, new 
city, all that. 

922
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,040
So it's got a bit of an Isle of 
Faces vibe during the Pact, 

923
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,440
right? 
The Pact comes after both 

924
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,080
humanity and the children have 
torn each other to shreds in 

925
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,320
endless warfare. 
Of course, the Long Night hasn't

926
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,680
happened yet by the time of the 
Pact. 

927
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,720
The Long Night comes probably in
part because of the breaking of 

928
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,600
the Pact. 
That's not entirely sure. 

929
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,200
But regardless, this works 
really well as a meeting of the 

930
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,280
survivors to decide how to live 
from now on, how to rebuild the 

931
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,920
world, and and what new rules 
we're going to live under. 

932
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,280
And what's our new? 
What are our new principles? 

933
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,360
What are our new cultural 
anchors? 

934
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,360
What do we care about most? 
What are we going to make 

935
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,920
traditional? 
What are we going to say? 

936
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,360
Who are our new gods? 
What are we going to call them? 

937
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,960
You know, things like that. 
Ragnarok itself, as we 

938
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,080
described, you may not have 
caught it. 

939
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,800
It begins in ice and ends in 
fire. 

940
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,920
The rimble winter starts it and 
it ends with the world aflame. 

941
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,320
And everything we know about it 
comes from poems, song form a 

942
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,080
song of ice and fire. 
So it isn't an end of the world 

943
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,720
so much as the end of an era and
the beginning of a new world. 

944
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,760
But the transition, of course, 
is apocalyptic. 

945
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,360
The human survivors of Ragnarok 
will live in what is effectively

946
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,880
a new world. 
The new world, whatever it looks

947
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,160
like, won't be so bad for the 
new gods. 

948
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,760
The very few who survived cause 
most of the gods die. 

949
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:40,000
But the new gods are like, well,
we're building a new, we get to 

950
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,480
make a whole new world, you 
know? 

951
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:45,360
But the humans that are that 
transition from this are living 

952
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:50,840
in a desolate world where eking 
out a living eking out a 

953
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,600
survival is extremely desperate.
And this is going to be similar 

954
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,640
to the long night, right? 
The few people who survived the 

955
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,520
Long night, maybe it's more than
a few, but whatever. 

956
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,360
The survivors of the Long Night 
have to rebuild the world anew. 

957
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,960
The others did so much damage to
what we're told. 

958
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,200
They overran the the seven 
kingdoms. 

959
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,680
Well, there weren't 7 the 100 
kingdoms back then and did so 

960
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,040
much devastation. 
So it would have been a a long 

961
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,040
rebuild. 
And yeah, I mean, the great evil

962
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:24,080
or apocalypse is over, but the 
rebuilding is a long process. 

963
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,680
The sun isn't back right away. 
Even so, yeah, it gots the sun 

964
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,640
gets darker during fimble 
winter, then it it's gone during

965
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,840
the final batter. 
And then at some point it comes 

966
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,120
back. 
It's rebirth. 

967
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,480
In fact, in North mythology, 
it's it's sometimes expressed as

968
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,600
the sun that went away. 
The one that got destroyed gave 

969
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,040
birth to a new sun, even though 
it's a daughter. 

970
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,040
In Norse mythology, the sun is 
female, which is unusual 

971
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:52,840
considering most sun 
personifications are male, 

972
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,000
overwhelmingly in world 
mythologies, and the moon is 

973
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,760
usually female. 
The Norse flipped it. 

974
00:52:58,600 --> 00:52:59,920
That's cool. 
It's different another. 

975
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:02,400
This is yet another thing that's
different about their mythology 

976
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,200
that that you can't find 
parallels anywhere else. 

977
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,600
I think it's part of because 
it's newer, you know, it came 

978
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,280
along so much later than a lot 
of these other religions did, 

979
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,000
and in conditions that are so 
unique and different than any of

980
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,960
these other cultures developed, 
developed in. 

981
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,320
Given that, it's easy to see why
histories of such times are 

982
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,360
rarely kept. 
Like, you can't eat, you have 

983
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,080
barely enough food, There's no 
sunlight. 

984
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,680
Who's writing things down? 
People might not even remember 

985
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,640
how to write. 
That stuff gets lost. 

986
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,120
Hence maybe some ruins that we 
can't even read in Westeros, not

987
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,960
even, I'm not even talking about
the real world ruins that we 

988
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,400
mostly can read even if we've 
lost some of the context. 

989
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,760
So yeah, like, literally, the 
language that was spoken might 

990
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,080
be lost, let alone having 
histories of what happened. 

991
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,720
So the only memory of these 
things is through human memory 

992
00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:57,080
of telling the stories, of 
passing it down from 1 to 

993
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,880
another. 
And as we know, when you pass 

994
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:04,960
something down for countless 
generations, of course it gets 

995
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,560
exaggerated, pumped up a bit 
more fantastical. 

996
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,040
And in Westeros, making it more 
fantastical isn't necessarily 

997
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,360
going to lose its credibility 
because some of that fantastical

998
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,080
nature can be real. 
Like you can believe that some 

999
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,240
of those things happened. 
It's not. 

1000
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,480
We don't have to believe that 
Thor really fought Yorman 

1001
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,160
Gander, but Westerosi can't 
dismiss that. 

1002
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:30,760
And you have the similar thing 
where, yeah, the stories aren't 

1003
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,600
100% accurate and they probably 
weren't 100% accurate in the 1st

1004
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:34,640
place. 
The people who were telling the 

1005
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,720
original stories, they couldn't 
interpret everything happening 

1006
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:40,280
around them. 
They had the POV of someone 

1007
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,080
living in the 6th century and 
all the knowledge that a person 

1008
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,000
in the 6th century would have, 
which is to say they, they don't

1009
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,200
think of it as Norse mythology. 
It's just what is, it's just 

1010
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,400
their basic belief system. 
There's no challenging it. 

1011
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:55,800
There's no, what if there is no 
ode? 

1012
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,640
And what if there is no, no 
one's doing that. 

1013
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,320
It's just that that's like 
challenging the notion of, of 

1014
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,960
air, of water being wet. 
You know, it's just too 

1015
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:05,960
self-evident. 
We don't think that way 

1016
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,640
obviously, but you have to put 
yourself in their shoes. 

1017
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:08,840
You kind of got to do things 
like that. 

1018
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:14,240
What's kind of ironic about this
too, is Ragnarok is more 

1019
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:16,880
fantastical than the Long Night,
right? 

1020
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,880
It's George toned it down in a 
lot of ways. 

1021
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,000
There's no wolf going to eat the
sun in his myths, but that's 

1022
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,920
what happens in Ragnarok, a wolf
eating the whole sun. 

1023
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,520
What's a metaphor for that? 
What's the deep symbolic meaning

1024
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,960
behind wolves eating the sun and
the moon, really? 

1025
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,960
And Odin, you could get really 
deep. 

1026
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,840
Would it be like the Starks? 
They caused it all. 

1027
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,440
They're the ones who caused the 
others. 

1028
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,280
It's their fault. 
Hey, maybe, maybe. 

1029
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,640
But still, that's higher fantasy
than White Walkers. 

1030
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,320
And this is how we should view 
the Long Night. 

1031
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,440
It's it's not recorded, it's 
remembered. 

1032
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,280
And the stuff that is written 
down, there is some things 

1033
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,080
written down, but it was written
down way later. 

1034
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,280
That's also true for Norse myth.
So much of what's written down 

1035
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,080
about Norse mythology, Norse 
culture, Norse history was 

1036
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,920
written down way after the fact,
way later. 

1037
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,000
So it's all questionable. 
Well, not all. 

1038
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,360
A lot of it's questionable. 
And that's why scholars will 

1039
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,320
never stop researching and 
debating and having a great time

1040
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,680
with it. 
George is crafting something 

1041
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,000
passed down from eons ago. 
So it has to go through that 

1042
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,640
same rigmarole, that same human 
cycle of well, we forgot a lot 

1043
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,360
of it. 
We don't remember some of it. 

1044
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,560
We some of it's been chained. 
We think we remember some of it,

1045
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,120
but it's it's we're wrong about 
that, but we don't know we're 

1046
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,720
wrong about that. 
And in George's case, the time 

1047
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:35,520
scale is way longer, so more 
would be forgotten. 

1048
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,440
More would be mythologized. 
Mythologized, which I didn't 

1049
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,640
know was a word until I typed 
this episode out. 

1050
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,040
And yes, it is a word. 
So yeah. 

1051
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,440
Because in George's case, what 
is it? 

1052
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,440
8004 thousand to 8000 years or 
46000? 

1053
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,040
Sorry, 6000 to 8000 years is a 
long night. 

1054
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:56,240
Apparently was the Norse Viking 
Age began 1500 years ago. 

1055
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,360
I guess technically they never 
did have their Ragnarok. 

1056
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,840
They only began in a Ragnarok. 
They never actually had one 

1057
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,440
right then. 
It never the end of the world 

1058
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:09,080
never came for them. 
Hey, I see, let's talk about 

1059
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,520
cultural memory. 
It's like societal karma again, 

1060
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,760
that nature nurture concept I 
talked about at the beginning. 

1061
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:21,640
So because they believe the 
world will end in a Ragnarok and

1062
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,160
it's all a cycle, that again, 
that's what they think it 

1063
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,560
started with. 
It started like a Ragnarok, 

1064
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,240
something like that. 
It would have similar quality. 

1065
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,640
The beginning will have similar,
and it's a complete reset. 

1066
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,760
The sun, the stars, the moon, 
gone, replaced with similar 

1067
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,840
versions of those, but not the 
same. 

1068
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,840
This is a kind of a neat thing 
that we can apply to A Song of 

1069
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:49,240
Ice and Fire, because if it's a 
cycle, well, think of a comet. 

1070
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,440
A comet goes in a very long. 
Well, it can go in a very long 

1071
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,600
cycle. 
Did you all know that comets can

1072
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,520
have cycles as long as like a 
million or more years? 

1073
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,600
Obviously, that's outside of the
span of human tracking. 

1074
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,720
You know, we're going to wait 
for that to come back around 

1075
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,600
again. 
Yeah, let me wait. 

1076
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,400
I'll be be waiting a while. 
Will you have some that, you 

1077
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,480
know, Haley's comet is like 104 
years, something like that. 

1078
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,400
Some I don't remember exactly, 
but it's barely in the range of 

1079
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,160
of human lifespans enough to be 
written down and remembered by 

1080
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,800
other people. 
And of course, the red comet is 

1081
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:25,720
a big preview or omen, whatever 
your choice of words. 

1082
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,360
All of the above for the magic 
returning to the world, Dragons 

1083
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,440
returning to the world, the 
kicking off of a new age of 

1084
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:37,800
heroes, which climaxes with a a 
new long night or an attempt at 

1085
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:42,880
a new long night. 
That's kind of a reason why 

1086
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,760
comets are so great for myth and
fantasy 'cause they represent 

1087
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,880
cycles and and changing of an 
era, things like that. 

1088
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,680
And it's the one thing that 
everyone on the globe can see. 

1089
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:58,360
There's no unifying message on a
planet in a medieval setting or 

1090
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,760
no low tech setting. 
How does everybody get the 

1091
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:02,920
message? 
Well, celestial events, that's 

1092
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:08,160
the really the only option. 
So at the end of each cycle is a

1093
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:09,520
Ragnarok. 
We said something like a 

1094
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:10,840
Ragnarok at the end of each 
cycle. 

1095
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,560
Here is a long night. 
We're having it come back again.

1096
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,360
It's the reset. 
And maybe it's the, a good 

1097
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,600
example is the flood myths on 
the real world and the real 

1098
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,160
world, there's so many of them, 
right? 

1099
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:22,440
So many flood myths that are out
there. 

1100
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,600
So many different cultures have 
one that it's LED people to 

1101
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,200
believe that there's something 
to it, right? 

1102
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,640
Like, well, what flood hit all 
these people at once? 

1103
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,040
Why do they all remember a 
flood? 

1104
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,920
Well, there would have, if it 
really happened, there would 

1105
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,160
have been survivors of that 
flood era and they would have 

1106
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,840
told their children who would 
have told their, it's too big of

1107
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,640
a story to not pass down. 
It's one of the most exciting 

1108
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,160
things that ever happened in 
their lives. 

1109
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:49,040
It's terrible. 
Exciting doesn't mean good but, 

1110
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,720
and especially in this case, but
it's impossible to forget 

1111
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,360
traumatizing, memorable as all 
the things. 

1112
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,720
So it won't be the same. 
Like there won't be Odin won't 

1113
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,680
be swallowed by Fenrir all over 
again, right? 

1114
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,120
But there will be, you know, an 
end to the sun and moon and the 

1115
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,960
celestial things. 
Odin won't even be called Odin. 

1116
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,080
Maybe he's got another name, or 
maybe he's just some other 

1117
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,400
being, or maybe he's the 
descendant of the original Odin 

1118
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,840
that survived the Ragnarok. 
We know this. 

1119
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,400
Odin didn't because he was eaten
by Fenrir. 

1120
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,280
Christina adds that myth isn't 
just about cultural memory. 

1121
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,600
But that is a lot of that is a 
lot of where it gets well put 

1122
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,880
down. 
Recorded memory, memorized, 

1123
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,280
remembered. 
It's also about emphasizing 

1124
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,960
cultural values. 
You see within the stories what 

1125
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,120
matters, who are the heroes, who
are the villains. 

1126
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,760
A good example it within just 
regular Norse history. 

1127
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,520
By looking at stories, we can 
see that berserkers, right? 

1128
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:43,960
You all have heard of 
berserkers. 

1129
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,080
You've seen them on TV. 
There's a it's a very debated 

1130
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,160
thing, like what their whole 
deal was. 

1131
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,520
They're not even sure what the 
word berserker means. 

1132
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,720
They're close to it. 
I think they think it means bear

1133
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,120
shirt. 
But what does that mean Bear 

1134
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,480
like it literally could the same
conundrum with English comes up 

1135
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,800
with that because they mean bear
like bear shirt like bear skin 

1136
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,280
or bear shirt like the skin of a
bear. 

1137
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,440
The same problem comes up in in 
Norse with that. 

1138
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,440
That's funny. 
So berserkers in the sagas are 

1139
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:19,160
almost always bad guys. 
That tells you that berserkers 

1140
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,920
weren't really considered good 
guys in, you know, in regular 

1141
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,480
times either. 
I was like, why would they all 

1142
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,160
be bad guys in the stories if 
they're usually good guys in 

1143
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:29,520
real life? 
That doesn't make much sense, 

1144
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,560
does it? 
So that's a big deal. 

1145
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,440
Now, something we'll expand on 
in another time is the idea of 

1146
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,120
guest right. 
We've talked about guest right 

1147
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,920
and how that's a big deal in 
Norse mythology as well. 

1148
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,200
Doesn't super relate to this, 
but I wanted to drop it just for

1149
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,000
a minute. 
So to set it up for a future 

1150
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,000
time. 
Odin was big on it. 

1151
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,720
He would sneak around and one of
his many disguises and just test

1152
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,720
people. 
He'd just like show up, be like,

1153
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:54,800
how do they treat me? 
You know they're going to host 

1154
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,080
me. 
Well, they're going to, they're 

1155
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:58,760
going to let me sit by their 
fire. 

1156
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,720
They're going to give me some 
food, let me sleep there. 

1157
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,520
Or are they going to be jerks 
about it and and violate 

1158
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,880
cultural norms because it is 
normal? 

1159
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,880
You should, according to their 
value system, you should let the

1160
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,520
person in, give them shelter, 
give them food, treat them well 

1161
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,440
and not, you know, bring murder 
upon your host or your guest or 

1162
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,480
any of that stuff. 
Is is in there too. 

1163
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:21,760
Guest, right. 
Very big deal. 

1164
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:22,760
Then our. 
So, yeah, it's something to 

1165
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,800
delve deeper into another time. 
It doesn't have a whole lot to 

1166
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,160
do with the long night, but it's
a good example of something that

1167
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:33,160
might have been forgotten When 
when culture resets, there might

1168
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,520
be a cultural memory of guest 
stripe being important. 

1169
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,000
Because it was so important, 
people might stick to it, but it

1170
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,520
might have been forgotten. 
It might have been overdone. 

1171
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,600
There might have been too many 
red weddings for people to care 

1172
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,120
anymore. 
You know, like, well, that 

1173
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,000
that's out, that's clearly not a
value. 

1174
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,560
You can't honestly say that's a 
value when people keep flouting 

1175
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,200
it and going directly against 
it. 

1176
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,480
But if it's stuck, it might be 
something that makes it through 

1177
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:54,880
the apocalypse to the other 
side. 

1178
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,680
It might look a little different
on the other side, but the seed 

1179
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,640
of it's important to treat 
guests well matters. 

1180
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,120
And you can see why too, because
it's a, it's a, it's a harsh 

1181
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,760
landscape to live in. 
People need to have need to know

1182
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,640
that if you're in dire straits, 
you can find help at a nearby 

1183
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,160
home. 
And that needs to be everyone 

1184
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,360
needs to be on that same page. 
So we actually do have a list of

1185
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:23,680
survivors of Ragnarok, like the 
the prophetess is pretty 

1186
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,960
specific. 
Vidar and Valley are both sons 

1187
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,280
of Odin and they survive. 
Valley is the son of Odin with a

1188
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,880
giant, which is kind of a cool 
idea when we've thought about 

1189
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,440
that in Westeros with the 
possibility of human giant 

1190
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,880
mixing of someone who's half 
giant. 

1191
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,240
Thor has two sons that survive 
also Modi and Magny and they're 

1192
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:45,760
Modi means wrath and Magny means
mighty. 

1193
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,680
So they're like in some 
interpretations they are aspects

1194
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,880
of Thor 'cause he is wrathful 
and mighty. 

1195
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:57,160
Thor himself is the son of Odin,
and Thor's mother was Yoro, the 

1196
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,000
personification of Earth. 
Whoa. 

1197
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,880
That's quite a mother to have. 
But Thor himself, of course, 

1198
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,640
does not survive. 
Baldur and Hodor. 

1199
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,800
Hodor. 
Yeah, also both sons of Odin. 

1200
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:12,400
They return. 
Well, Hodor emerges. 

1201
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,400
Baldur is resurrected for some 
reason 'cause he was killed long

1202
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,720
before. 
He's the one of the sorrows, if 

1203
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,120
I remember correctly. 
But he comes back. 

1204
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,560
Now Hodor is blind, which is 
interesting, and I wonder about 

1205
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,760
the parallel to Hodor and Hodor.
More on that in a little bit. 

1206
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,920
Let's stick with these 
survivors. 

1207
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,400
There's two humans who survive. 
They're leaf and Leaf Rassier. 

1208
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,560
Leaf is female and leaf Rassier 
is male. 

1209
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,800
They're basically the Norse Eve 
and Adam and Eve or even Adam, 

1210
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,200
or better yet, they're ask an 
embola, ash and Elm, because the

1211
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,360
Norse believe that the first two
people were carved from an ash 

1212
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,320
tree and an Elm tree. 
And ash was the guy, Elm was the

1213
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,280
girl. 
There's actually a little bit of

1214
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,960
a debate about the girl part, 
but whatever, outside of my 

1215
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:01,720
knowledge, this is just what I 
read. 

1216
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,640
And so, yeah, so that's that's 
another thing that you kind of 

1217
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,280
think about is like the first 
people, they the Norse think of 

1218
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:12,080
people as emerging from trees, 
which you could, I don't have to

1219
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,800
explain that to see a parallel 
to A Song of Ice and Fire and 

1220
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:16,000
the where woods and heart trees,
right? 

1221
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,520
They've got faces on them. 
You know, there's, there's brand

1222
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,920
speaks through a tree. 
Other screens here speak through

1223
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:22,760
trees. 
So there's, there's the idea 

1224
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,320
that there's people in there is 
well supported. 

1225
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,240
It's just not, they're not 
literal people, but they are the

1226
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,640
spirits or souls or people or 
in, in Brand's case, it is a 

1227
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:31,960
literal person speaking through 
the tree. 

1228
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,720
So this is interpreted a couple 
different ways. 

1229
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:39,280
Maybe they survived Ragnarok by 
hiding within Idrijazil, within 

1230
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,880
the tree, that tree, the world 
Tree, that'd be the safe spot. 

1231
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,240
That's not actually mentioned in
Ragnarok. 

1232
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,000
Adrijazil is only mentioned as 
maybe shaking and that's it. 

1233
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,160
Otherwise it doesn't come up. 
So that's interesting. 

1234
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,640
It could also mean though that 
they were re carved. 

1235
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,440
That's first. 
This next set of humans also 

1236
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,360
emerge from a tree. 
They're also people that turned 

1237
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,080
into trees that turned into 
people just like the the last 

1238
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:06,000
time. 
Now at the beginning of the 

1239
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:09,480
cycle here, Odin and his two 
brothers were there. 

1240
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:16,120
They're the bloody murderers who
kill this giant and create the 

1241
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,680
world from it. 
It's kind of weird, but very 

1242
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,400
bloody. 
So that kind of tells you that 

1243
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,400
Odin didn't survive. 
He was there at the beginning of

1244
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:25,800
this one. 
He must have survived the 

1245
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,600
previous Ragnarok, made it 
through this second one. 

1246
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,960
He didn't, but his sons did. 
So it's like Odin passed his 

1247
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,880
deity DNA down through the cycle
here. 

1248
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:41,360
So his descendants, God like 
descendants exist, you know, 

1249
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,480
like a king passing the crown 
and his realm to his sons in 

1250
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,800
turn. 
A reign that spends time on a 

1251
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,160
godly scale. 
Maybe like the the gemstone 

1252
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:51,720
emperors in their centuries at a
time. 

1253
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:53,960
Something like that. 
Time passes differently for the 

1254
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:55,360
gods, they perceive it 
differently. 

1255
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:00,000
The equivalent of a of a human 
generation or an era could be to

1256
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,640
them's a lot shorter. 
Maybe a Ragnarok. 

1257
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,560
The cycle between Ragnarok's is 
to them roughly equivalent to a 

1258
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,560
generation for humans. 
Something like that. 

1259
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,240
Societal reset. 
I don't think Westeros will be 

1260
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,320
as stricken as Ragnarok. 
As we said, we don't need a 

1261
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:22,640
parallel for a pair of men and 
women survivors for that reason.

1262
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,200
And now, other than what is 
retained through cultural 

1263
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,440
memory, you know, certain 
values, certain things will be 

1264
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,280
retained. 
There's a a reset, for lack of a

1265
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,120
better word, entirely new social
values, codes of ethics, new 

1266
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,720
religions and everything that 
goes with that. 

1267
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:40,120
Or maybe those religions are 
offshoots of previously existing

1268
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,280
ones. 
But you got to redefine things. 

1269
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,040
You got new gods, you got new 
values. 

1270
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:46,880
You're in an entirely different 
environment. 

1271
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:54,400
The the gods of pre Ragnarok 
were built on a a society and 

1272
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,040
whose origin is different than 
the origin these people are 

1273
01:07:58,040 --> 01:07:59,680
going through. 
There's there's similarities, 

1274
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:01,080
but it's definitely not the 
same. 

1275
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,200
And these things will be 
radically different in some 

1276
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,520
cases and very similar in 
others. 

1277
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:07,480
OK, let's look about incest for 
a second. 

1278
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:11,000
In this case, like nearly every 
culture that's ever existed has 

1279
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,360
some kind of shunning of it. 
But there's absolutely 

1280
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,600
exceptions. 
Lots of them, really. 

1281
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,680
Maybe I shouldn't have said 
nearly every, but there's just a

1282
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:18,680
lot. 
There's there's enough 

1283
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,439
exceptions to make it seem like 
a lot, but what you consider a 

1284
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:27,040
lot in terms of incest may vary.
And what counts as incest varies

1285
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:32,000
in different societies. 
Is it first cousins in Westeros?

1286
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,120
They don't really consider that 
incest. 

1287
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:40,680
Tywin and Joanna, Ned and and 
Brand and or Ned and Brandon and

1288
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:45,040
Liana and Benjin's parents, 
Ricard and Liara, they were 

1289
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,120
first cousins too. 
And they don't think about that 

1290
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,120
as instance. 
Obviously the Targaryen version,

1291
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,160
which is a lot closer, that is 
considered incest. 

1292
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:57,120
So do they really need to 
rethink that when the world 

1293
01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:59,479
restarts? 
Yeah, they do. 

1294
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,720
But they'll usually arrive at 
the same conclusion because 

1295
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:03,840
there's a genetic component to 
it. 

1296
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,920
If you do that, your babies come
out bad. 

1297
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,760
They usually figure that out. 
They don't always though, 

1298
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,240
because you know, in the amongst
the nobility, you know, the 

1299
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,000
rules are different, etcetera. 
Yeah, so we can reconstruct it 

1300
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:19,120
now using archaeology and DNA. 
But another thing forgotten or 

1301
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:23,680
barely remembered will be where 
they migrated from. 

1302
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,520
People didn't just appear in 
Scandinavia right in beginning 

1303
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,200
of human history. 
It happened around a few 

1304
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:33,240
different river areas the most 
the cradles of civilization 

1305
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:37,040
where people came from. 
People knew humans when we were 

1306
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,319
infant as a species. 
We weren't rushing off to the 

1307
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:45,000
coldest regions to go live. 
That was something that came 

1308
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,000
later when, you know, other when
people started to spread out 

1309
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,520
more and they needed more and 
more space to live. 

1310
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,279
People eventually say, hey, 
there's land up there. 

1311
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:53,960
It's going to be hard to live 
there, but we can do it. 

1312
01:09:54,720 --> 01:10:02,040
So Scandinavians after in the 
Viking age, after the horrors of

1313
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:06,280
the 6th century that we'll get 
deeper into later, they might 

1314
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,880
not know where they came from. 
They know they came maybe from 

1315
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:11,840
the South or maybe even from the
east, which is a very 

1316
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:13,760
interesting quirk of 
Scandinavians. 

1317
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,120
They've some of them, some of 
their culture might actually 

1318
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:21,040
originate from the Far East, 
meaning like Indo Europe rather 

1319
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:26,160
than Europe itself. 
So like, OK, so an 800 AD, this 

1320
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,720
is an era during the Viking Age.
They didn't probably know that 

1321
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:33,520
most of their ancestors came 
from what's now Germany. 

1322
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:36,200
Some of them might have known 
that, or they may have had an 

1323
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,200
inkling of it. 
They might have been able to 

1324
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,520
look at each other and see some 
physical similarities here, some

1325
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,440
similarities in the language. 
They they both worship Odin, 

1326
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,240
different names for him. 
But there's things that would be

1327
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,720
like that's similar, but they 
wouldn't necessarily know 

1328
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,400
exactly, right? 
They would have a basis for 

1329
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,600
that. 
Most people are like that. 

1330
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,360
You know, if you go back far 
enough and you don't know where 

1331
01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:59,600
you came from, you can track 
your ancestry for quite a while.

1332
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,400
But you eventually you reach a 
point where you're like, well, I

1333
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,680
don't know what's beyond that. 
You, you, you don't get back to 

1334
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:05,840
the beginning. 
You don't get all the way back 

1335
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,680
to Adam and Eve. 
Some folks, some cultures have 

1336
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,320
done a really good job in the 
real world of keeping records, 

1337
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:14,280
like Jewish and Chinese, for 
example. 

1338
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,320
They have impressive records, 
but obviously those don't go 

1339
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,280
back all the way either. 
Compare that to the first men. 

1340
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:24,760
They migrated from Essos across 
the land bridge that no longer 

1341
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:26,720
exists. 
They know they came across from 

1342
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,920
the land bridge, that is fairly 
common knowledge in Westeros. 

1343
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:33,960
But they don't know where in 
Essos they came from. 

1344
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:37,520
Not a clue. 
Maybe they did at some point, 

1345
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:41,280
but that is long ago lost. 
The names of those people are 

1346
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:42,800
gone. 
Probably they don't exist 

1347
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:44,200
anymore. 
Whatever those cultures were 

1348
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,800
named, whatever towns and 
cities, maybe even empires long 

1349
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:49,920
gone. 
The names wouldn't mean anything

1350
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,400
even if they knew them. 
This is of course maybe 

1351
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:54,800
shouldn't need doesn't need to 
be said. 

1352
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:58,040
But I'll, I'll say it. 
Just dozens if not hundreds of 

1353
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:00,560
different ethnic groups. 
Partly depends on what you 

1354
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,640
define an ethnic group as. 
But these can't even be defined 

1355
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:08,960
because they've all merged into 
one so long ago that until 

1356
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,440
Westeros has DNA, they won't be 
able to track that back when 

1357
01:12:12,440 --> 01:12:16,880
they do get DNA testing, Oh boy,
does that open things up. 

1358
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,560
Because in our world, man, we 
can do some amazing things that 

1359
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,440
once we get to the science 
section of this, we'll talk 

1360
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:25,880
about that. 
So think about this from the 

1361
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,520
great Empire, the dawn or 
Valyria, their perspective, 

1362
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,960
having a long night. 
Valyria came after the long 

1363
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,320
night, but just imagine that 
they didn't imagine that they 

1364
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,520
lived through it. 
Imagine they survived it or the 

1365
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,000
Great Empire. 
Imagine the great empire. 

1366
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,040
The dawn wasn't toppled by the 
long night. 

1367
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:43,720
There isn't a real world example
of that. 

1368
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:48,160
From the Scandinavian 
perspective, Ragnarok happened 

1369
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,920
the pre Ragnarok that formed 
their world as it is in the 8th,

1370
01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:56,600
6th, 7th, 8th centuries, 
whatever Rome existed before 

1371
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,120
that and after that. 
And they knew that Rome would be

1372
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:02,160
a common byword, no one, they 
wouldn't have forgotten it 

1373
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,960
'cause it still exists. 
But it's changed a lot. 

1374
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:09,920
The Rome that existed before the
6th century versus after these 

1375
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:13,440
calamitous events, it changed a 
lot, right? 

1376
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:18,240
The, it went from the, the, the 
Western Roman Empire fell 

1377
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,040
entirely. 
It didn't wasn't destroyed, but 

1378
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:25,120
it just shrunk down to a small, 
not very influential polity. 

1379
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,720
Whereas the Eastern Roman Empire
became the Byzantine Empire, 

1380
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:31,880
which would have had a lot of 
influence on Scandinavia as the 

1381
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,960
biggest nearby European power, 
global power to their 

1382
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:38,160
perspective. 
But it's not that nearby. 

1383
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,240
They're not bordered, right? 
There's a lot of space between 

1384
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,640
them, the Byzantines on the 
Mediterranean and, you know, and

1385
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,040
it's the Norse are way the heck 
up in Scandinavia. 

1386
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,880
But in later centuries, the 
Byzantine Empire started hiring 

1387
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,760
them. 
Some of the best and most 

1388
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:58,760
adventurous Norse warriors and 
some Saxons were hired as part 

1389
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,960
of the Virangian guard, who were
imperial guards. 

1390
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:06,080
One example is Harold Hardrada, 
who, by the way, is a lot like 

1391
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:10,160
King Hardwin. 
Hardwin whore, AKA Hardhand. 

1392
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:11,600
Yeah. 
Hardrada hard hand, right? 

1393
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:13,320
He's the Conqueror of the 
Riverlands. 

1394
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:19,280
So the Norse peoples don't know 
where they came from, but they 

1395
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,840
know that there's some 
consistency in the world because

1396
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,360
Rome exists before and after 
there's so at least something 

1397
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,840
they can point to that existed 
prior to the collapse of the 

1398
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,680
world as they know it. 
And that's interesting. 

1399
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,920
They would have local legends 
about Rome and they might also 

1400
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:36,680
have that about China. 
And that might reach them from 

1401
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:38,320
the Far East. 
You know, it's not as far as 

1402
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,800
it's farther away, but it's 
another like great power that 

1403
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,200
existed for a really long time 
that would have still been 

1404
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:45,720
there. 
You know, the dynasty names 

1405
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:47,640
would have changed. 
But it's still China, right? 

1406
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,800
Still the same culture, same 
people to some extent. 

1407
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,600
This was, as I said at the 
beginning of the episode, our 

1408
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,560
Patreon Topics moot #12 episode.
You can join us on Patreon and 

1409
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,720
be a part of the choosing 
process, the selection process 

1410
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:05,480
for picking episodes we do at 
the beginning of the year around

1411
01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:07,800
February, March runs for a few 
weeks. 

1412
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,320
We do tournaments of polls, you 
know, poll style tournaments, 

1413
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,200
sort of like a elimination style
top three advance, that kind of 

1414
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:17,440
thing. 
And it's super fun. 

1415
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,920
It gives me an opportunity to 
think about a wide variety of 

1416
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,120
topics and for you to let us 
know which kind of things you'd 

1417
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:23,480
like the most. 
We get a lot out of that. 

1418
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:27,320
We we helps us understand what 
types of topics are most 

1419
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,760
interesting to you as well when 
we look at these categories. 

1420
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,840
So that on top of the fact that 
we just rely on you all to exist

1421
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:37,360
in the 1st place, not just with 
your help and topic selections, 

1422
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,120
we want to make our Patreon 
worthwhile. 

1423
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,640
We want it to be something that 
you can feel like you're 

1424
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,680
supporting us, but we want to 
give something back to. 

1425
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,680
And so that's one thing you get 
is the voting rights. 

1426
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:50,960
And at higher levels, you get 
multiple votes, but you also can

1427
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:55,760
get access to the shout outs, 
script notes, and like you could

1428
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,640
be looking at this script later 
if you were the $10 level, for 

1429
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,600
example. 
And of course, the biggest draw 

1430
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:03,080
most likely is our bonus 
episodes. 

1431
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,520
We got a big catalog of bonus 
episodes available to patrons. 

1432
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,120
You could listen to all the 
brand chapters in our Valeritas 

1433
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,880
in a row rather than having to 
find them individually through 

1434
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,640
the course of Valeritas, which 
is basically chapter by chapter.

1435
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,160
So we kind of did them. 
We did them all combined as 

1436
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,320
POV's. 
I share re edited that. 

1437
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,760
So that's pretty cool. 
You can get that as a good 

1438
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,240
little perk of being a Patreon, 
a patron of ours, or a member of

1439
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:27,680
our Patreon. 
You can go to 

1440
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,320
patreon.com/history of Westeros 
to sign up, and we hope to see 

1441
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,160
you there. 
Bryson Chung says Japanese myth 

1442
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,320
has a female sun goddess, 
Amaterasu, and the male moon 

1443
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:40,360
God, Siukomi no Mikoto. 
Oh, that's cool. 

1444
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,080
That's when I didn't know. 
And the sun is on the Japanese 

1445
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,680
flag due to their imperial line 
claiming direct descent from the

1446
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:46,600
sun goddess. 
Yeah. 

1447
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:49,920
Isn't that wild how even modern 
dynasties do stuff like that? 

1448
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,000
Like, yeah, we just said from 
the sun goddess in the year 

1449
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,160
1950. 
Really. 

1450
01:16:56,160 --> 01:17:00,160
Sun goddesses are still a thing?
Yeah, yeah, I guess so. 

1451
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:07,200
The science of Ragnarok, this is
one of the most fun parts for me

1452
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:09,200
because this is what makes the 
myth. 

1453
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,040
This was what translates it into
reality. 

1454
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:15,560
It supports the myth through 
real evidence. 

1455
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,880
It shows how the myths came to 
be in the 1st place. 

1456
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,400
We always kind of knew that 
because there's always a sense 

1457
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:26,360
of myths contain a grain of 
truth or several grains of 

1458
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,280
truth. 
That's that's a concept well 

1459
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,680
known, especially amongst 
historians and anyone who is 

1460
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:33,720
interested in the past. 
But that doesn't mean you know 

1461
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:35,560
what those things are. 
You know they're there, but you 

1462
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:36,760
might not be able to perceive 
them. 

1463
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:40,720
Technology has opened so much of
that up. 

1464
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,560
Children of Ash and Elm was 
written in 2020 and it's drawing

1465
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:48,000
on very, very recent 
discoveries, things discoveries 

1466
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,920
made since 2015 or 2010. 
So things that have happened in 

1467
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:54,880
the last 10 to 15 years. 
Technology has moved forward in 

1468
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,320
leaps and bounds, as you all 
know. 

1469
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:59,720
You don't have to tell me like 
we have in the last 30 years. 

1470
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:03,040
We've got the Internet, we have 
AI, we have all these other 

1471
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,160
things that are just massive 
leaps forward. 

1472
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:10,680
So you might easily be able to 
extrapolate that some of that 

1473
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:15,960
has applied to archaeology and 
associated scientists, 

1474
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:19,560
associated sciences rather. 
So that's really cool. 

1475
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,760
I'm just all about this, the 
real green seers. 

1476
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:27,840
And what I mean by that is the 
scientists of today are figuring

1477
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:31,840
out the past in a way that to me
can parallel how green seers 

1478
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:36,200
look into the past. 
And to a scientist in our world,

1479
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,960
the idea of a where would 
network transmitting information

1480
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,120
is bizarre and weird and and 
belongs in a fantasy story. 

1481
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:47,120
But if the real world stuff was 
in this fantasy story, they 

1482
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:51,160
would look at it as magic. 
They'd be like climate isotopes,

1483
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:52,960
DNA. 
What is that? 

1484
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:54,520
You know, they would sound like 
magic. 

1485
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,400
It would just be gobbledygook. 
But the fact that it would 

1486
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:01,760
produce repeatable results and 
would lead to and have 

1487
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,600
conclusions that would be 
provable after the fact, it 

1488
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,640
would look, it would be 
demonstrably accurate. 

1489
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:09,840
And people would be like, how 
does that work? 

1490
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:11,880
So you see both sides of it. 
The magic is confusing. 

1491
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,120
The science can be confusing to 
people who don't know about it. 

1492
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:18,800
But let's get into it. 
Strontium and oxygen isotopes in

1493
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:22,880
human teeth can identify where a
person spent their early years. 

1494
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:25,400
Whoa, right. 
Christina said. 

1495
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:29,080
Yeah, this is huge, she said. 
We were able to in her 

1496
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,080
professional career, we were 
able to use all that data to 

1497
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:34,720
follow a particular woman in 
this one example, through 

1498
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:37,480
several towns. 
They were able to trace her 

1499
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:41,360
movement by what's in her teeth.
They found out. 

1500
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,400
They figured out where she was 
born and figured out where she 

1501
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:49,280
was dyed by her teeth. 
Wow, You can see why someone in 

1502
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,200
a Westerosi setting would be 
like magic. 

1503
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:52,600
That's magic. 
You can't. 

1504
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,960
It's like you scry something 
from the teeth. 

1505
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:59,680
It's like that's, that's magic. 
It's but it goes beyond that. 

1506
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:06,720
The enhanced ability to just 
identify like molecules in trash

1507
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,000
and highly degraded material 
Residue. 

1508
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,640
They can figure things out from 
residue. 

1509
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:16,080
In fact, Christina says. 
It might be the most prolific 

1510
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,200
source of ancient data, just 
residue and just left behind 

1511
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:22,680
little particles. 
That alone tells them so much 

1512
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:26,840
because nowadays they can parse 
on the molecular level, right? 

1513
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:30,880
Christina says. 
So many things are just found in

1514
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,160
trees. 
Like you can find the OR not 

1515
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:36,280
just trees, but like wooden 
enclosures, like a house, like a

1516
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,480
post hole that a house was built
on. 

1517
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,720
You might find charcoal down 
there and that charcoal you can 

1518
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:46,440
date. 
Charcoal can be dated and and 

1519
01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:48,040
hearths, of course, for the same
reason. 

1520
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:50,160
You can find like ashes and 
embers and stuff and you can 

1521
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,520
date that stuff. 
You can do all sorts of tests on

1522
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,800
it to find out how old it is. 
And that's just fascinating. 

1523
01:20:56,280 --> 01:21:01,200
And that brings us to some of 
the honing in on the events that

1524
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:05,240
really eerily match the 
descriptions of Ragnarok. 

1525
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:08,040
Going a little further with 
this, they can look at seeds. 

1526
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:10,680
Seeds survive really well. 
Surprisingly, seeds can survive 

1527
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,880
just a centuries, if not longer,
as long as they don't sprout or 

1528
01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:17,400
get destroyed or whatever. 
And of course, you can do things

1529
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:20,040
like a sword. 
There's lots of what's 

1530
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:21,320
interesting. 
There's not a lot of helmets 

1531
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,160
found in graves because helmets 
are just too important, too full

1532
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:24,560
of metal. 
But there's lots of swords found

1533
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:28,120
in graves, which is interesting.
They can take that sword, 

1534
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,440
analyze the metal and tell you 
which mine it came from, like 

1535
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:34,000
down to the location of that 
mine. 

1536
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,600
Because there's just, it's just 
they can get down on such a 

1537
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,600
granular level that it's like a 
fingerprint or, I don't know, a 

1538
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:42,720
ballistic record where, you 
know, I don't know if y'all know

1539
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:46,360
how Ballistics works, but you 
can private or detectives and 

1540
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:50,640
police and FBI or whatever, they
can figure out exactly which gun

1541
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:55,920
a bullet came from based on just
no two guns are identical, you 

1542
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,320
know, so there's like a spin and
the way it leaves behind. 

1543
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:01,080
Yeah, I don't understand it, but
they can very accurately do it. 

1544
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:04,360
So bone and fir, of course, it 
can be done to those things as 

1545
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:06,200
well. 
So there's so many things that 

1546
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,680
are not leftover, but there's so
many things that are. 

1547
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,440
Even if it's just in residue 
form or ash form. 

1548
01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:15,720
That's crazy, right? 
Tree rings can pinpoint precise 

1549
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:21,520
years, So you can first 
extrapolate the year and then go

1550
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,200
consecutively and look at each 
year. 

1551
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,880
So this is this year, this is 
505 O 15-O2. 

1552
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:27,760
And certain rings are bigger 
than others. 

1553
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,000
And the size of the rings can 
tell you, like, the amount of 

1554
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,600
carbon or sunlight that was 
available that year. 

1555
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:36,960
Like, the tree didn't grow that 
much this particular year 

1556
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:39,400
because there was less light or 
something like that. 

1557
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:41,760
And that's getting us even 
closer to our some of our 

1558
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:44,960
conclusions here. 
A direct quote from Children of 

1559
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,960
Ash and Elm is archaeologists 
can excavate A sunken ship in 

1560
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,840
Denmark and determine that it 
was built in Ireland. 

1561
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:57,400
Whoa, so cool. 
Volcanic winters. 

1562
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,400
Here we go. 
This is a concept we've 

1563
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:02,600
discussed in several different 
episodes, Valyria, Hardhome, 

1564
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:04,480
etcetera. 
But this is a much different 

1565
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:06,880
look at it. 
Let's talk briefly about the 

1566
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,920
Lalia, the late antique Little 
Ice Age LALIA. 

1567
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:16,680
This was only proposed in the 
year 2015 and confirmed 

1568
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:18,400
afterwards. 
So you look at any history book 

1569
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,120
before 2015, they don't have 
this. 

1570
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:22,720
Not at all. 
And that's most of them. 

1571
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:24,200
That's most history books, 
right? 

1572
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:32,280
It caused as much as a 2°C drop.
It started in the year 536 and 

1573
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:37,240
lasted as long as until 660, but
the early part was by far the 

1574
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:39,520
worst. 
It was characterized by up to 

1575
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:42,600
three huge volcanic eruptions 
relatively close together. 

1576
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:49,440
Here's the Roman historian 
Procopius in 536 AD during. 

1577
01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:55,240
This year a most dread portent 
took place before the sun gave 

1578
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:59,200
forth its light without 
brightness, and it seemed 

1579
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,960
exceedingly like the sun in 
eclipse, for the beams it shed 

1580
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:09,680
were not clear. 
Now modern times tell us that 

1581
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:15,000
ice cores taken from Antarctica 
show sulfate deposits somewhere 

1582
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:19,400
around 5:36, maybe earlier, but 
somewhere around 5:36, which is 

1583
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:22,920
evidence of a dust veil, the 
sort of which would be which 

1584
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,480
would originate from an ash 
cloud from a volcano. 

1585
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:33,600
Tang dynasty records China speak
of great cold and famine in 536 

1586
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,280
AD. 
Book of the later Han, same 

1587
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,160
thing. 
XI Ji Tongjian, same thing. 

1588
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,440
Nanxi records yellow ash like 
substance from the sky snow. 

1589
01:24:42,440 --> 01:24:45,480
In August in the Middle East 
there was a dense dry fog 

1590
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:50,000
drought in Peru. 
The Irish Annals of Ulster wrote

1591
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:53,880
of a quote failure of bread in 
in 536 AD. 

1592
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:57,760
The Irish Annals of Innisfallen 
wrote of quote failure of bread.

1593
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:02,880
From 536 to 539 AD there was 
using the tree ring analysis, 

1594
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:07,600
there was abnormally little 
growth of trees in 536 and then 

1595
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:11,200
little again in 542. 
So this is a tribute to a 

1596
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:12,720
volcano. 
They don't know exactly where. 

1597
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:14,480
They haven't figured out where 
these volcanoes were. 

1598
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,960
Might have been Iceland, might 
have been North America. 

1599
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:20,760
That's a pretty wide range 
moving forward a year. 

1600
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:24,600
The legendary Battle of Kamlin, 
as in the final battle of the 

1601
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:28,760
Arthurian cycle, Arthur versus 
Mordred, they both die, was in 

1602
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:32,160
537 AD. 
There's a scholarly tradition 

1603
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:35,720
that's somewhat new that's 
starting to parse this together 

1604
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:39,400
and realize that, yeah, big old 
wars happened because of the 

1605
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:41,280
depredations. 
It's the Four Horsemen of the 

1606
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,720
Apocalypse, conquest, war, 
Famine, pestilence. 

1607
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:47,160
Well, there's different 
variations, but this is 

1608
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,360
happening here, right? 
People are fighting over the few

1609
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,480
resources left and it causes 
great big battles like the 

1610
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:56,840
Battle of Kaimlin, which might 
not have happened, but there's 

1611
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:59,800
more and more reason to think 
something like it actually did. 

1612
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:02,280
There may have really been a 
King Arthur, not at all like the

1613
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:05,000
stories tell us, but there's 
seeds of truth in there, 

1614
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:07,520
probably. 
Let's go forward one more year. 

1615
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:11,840
In 538 AD, the Roman scholar and
writer Cassiodorus wrote of 

1616
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:16,800
quote Suns rays as bluish, no 
shadows visible at noon, frost 

1617
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,800
during harvest, souring grapes 
and hardening apples. 

1618
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,640
They had to use stored food. 
Famine was widespread. 

1619
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:27,040
The seasons quote seem to be all
jumbled up together and quote a 

1620
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:31,520
winter without storms, a spring 
without mildness, and a summer 

1621
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:35,000
without heat. 
Jumping forward again to 539 or 

1622
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:39,400
40 AD, there's one more year. 
Children of Ash and Elm claims 

1623
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:44,040
the volcano Ilopango in El 
Salvador was the volcano here. 

1624
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:46,000
So there's three volcanic 
eruptions we're dealing with 

1625
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:51,320
five, 36540 and 547. 
Three volcanoes. 

1626
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:53,200
Remember what the Norse myth 
said? 

1627
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:57,160
Remember what Ragnarok said? 
Three winters without a summer. 

1628
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,520
Three. 
I mean, 3 is a small number. 

1629
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,560
It, it's a recurring number that
comes up in a lot of prophecy 

1630
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:05,640
and just stories in general. 
But three winters without a 

1631
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:10,880
summer, 3 volcanoes at the exact
right time that the Viking Age, 

1632
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:15,280
that creates the Viking Age just
before this big, big deal. 

1633
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,440
So yeah. 
So they believe Children of 

1634
01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:21,920
Ashenelm points to the Ilopango 
volcano in El Salvador as the 

1635
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:25,960
culprit for the second eruption.
That's already been disproved 

1636
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:27,480
though. 
Remember, Children of Ashenelm 

1637
01:27:27,480 --> 01:27:31,720
was published in August 2023. 
Months later, in August 2020, 

1638
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,800
they a study was done that 
proved the Ilopango eruption 

1639
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:37,680
happened in 431. 
So it was whole century plus 

1640
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:39,880
before that. 
So sciences, you know, always 

1641
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:41,400
discover new things. 
You got to keep up with the 

1642
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:45,640
changes in the new information. 
So whatever wherever it was, it 

1643
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:47,280
dropped global temperatures even
more. 

1644
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,640
So you got the first volcano 
knocks the global temperatures 

1645
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:51,600
down. 
Before things clear up, another 

1646
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,280
volcano hits. 
Before that clears up, another 

1647
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:56,280
volcano hits. 
And these are just massive. 

1648
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,040
So you can see how this is 
painting the picture that I 

1649
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,200
referred to at the beginning. 
One of the worst times to be 

1650
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:05,760
alive almost anywhere on the 
globe. 

1651
01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:08,560
But again, some places are worse
than others. 

1652
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,760
The places that were already the
hardest to live in, the places 

1653
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,920
that already were existing on 
the edge of human ability to 

1654
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:18,800
survive, were hit the hardest. 
Scandinavia is a bullseye for 

1655
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,000
that concept. 
It's very hard to survive there.

1656
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:27,720
Norway, for example, only has 3%
of its entire land is farmable. 

1657
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:30,000
What happens if it gets a little
bit colder than it goes to? 

1658
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:31,880
0%? 
Right? 

1659
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:36,600
Lack of sunlight destroys grass,
which makes it hard to feed your

1660
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:40,640
livestock, so they die off too. 
Historians believe that 

1661
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,680
something like half the 
population of Scandinavia died 

1662
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,280
out in this time. 
That's worse than the Black 

1663
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:50,080
Death, or at least about the 
same, and hold that thought, 

1664
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:54,360
too. 
So one common feature of 

1665
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:56,680
calamity like this is 
migrations. 

1666
01:28:56,680 --> 01:29:00,440
People go, well, we can't live 
here anymore And they move and 

1667
01:29:00,440 --> 01:29:03,600
they bump into people who live 
wherever they're headed and they

1668
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:07,680
fight and that's bad, obviously.
And it just makes things all, 

1669
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,200
makes the whole situation all 
worse. 

1670
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:12,800
So yeah, I mean, a lot of the 
Mediterranean wasn't hit that 

1671
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:16,160
hard because, you know, they 
could import from Africa. 

1672
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:17,640
They can. 
The Mediterranean Sea still 

1673
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:22,360
provided a lot of fish, but even
some fishing is affected by 

1674
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:27,120
these kind of things because 
with volcanic ash in the air, 

1675
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,920
you get acid rain. 
That'll mess up some fish, man. 

1676
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,560
Fish don't like acid. 
No living thing is big on acid, 

1677
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:36,600
right? 
So I don't know. 

1678
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:39,560
It's, it's, it's wild. 
So again, thimble winter 

1679
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:41,560
described as three winters 
without a summer. 

1680
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:44,400
We have 3 volcanic eruptions 
that are chronically, 

1681
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:47,120
chronologically aligned with the
formation of the Viking Age 

1682
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:49,800
Scandinavia. 
It's crazy super lined up. 

1683
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:52,400
It blows my mind. 
It's unclear how this happened 

1684
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,200
with the doom. 
Like the doom was huge, blew up 

1685
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:58,560
all of the whole continent. 
It must have been something 

1686
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,480
different volcanically, like 
more sinking into the sea than 

1687
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:05,600
shooting up in the air because 
there was no global cloud that 

1688
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,200
we hear of. 
There's no mention of that, but 

1689
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:09,920
there is the century of blood 
that followed it. 

1690
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:13,840
So there's definitely the long 
period afterwards of unrest and 

1691
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,080
cultural reset that we talked 
about. 

1692
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,040
Hardhome miniature version of 
that small scale. 

1693
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,080
But it did shoot ash into the 
sky. 

1694
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:26,360
That is an example of of the sky
being dark after a volcano. 

1695
01:30:26,440 --> 01:30:30,040
Six months, not some huge length
of time, but that's a long time.

1696
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,680
So in summary, here's a quote 
from historian Michael 

1697
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:35,520
McCormick. 
He said it's the beginning of 

1698
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:38,960
the one of the worst periods to 
be alive, if not the worst year.

1699
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:41,680
Crop failures, famine, plague, 
warp. 

1700
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:44,360
There's their four horsemen 
again, millions of deaths. 

1701
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,440
So it's not just my opinion. 
I mean, you can you read that 

1702
01:30:47,440 --> 01:30:49,120
off to me And that sounds like 
one of the worst times to be 

1703
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:50,640
alive. 
We have historians just flat out

1704
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,440
saying it. 
So take their word. 

1705
01:30:52,440 --> 01:30:55,400
You don't have to listen to me. 
And we're building up to the one

1706
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:56,560
that we haven't talked about 
yet. 

1707
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:58,600
Plague, right? 
We haven't talked about plague. 

1708
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:00,800
That's going to happen too, of 
course, because that's what they

1709
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:02,320
need, right? 
On top of everything else, 

1710
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:04,520
plague got to have plague, 
right? 

1711
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:06,960
A series of natural disasters 
without a disease or three is 

1712
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:12,680
considered a dull affair. 
The plague of Justinian, the 

1713
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:17,240
first outbreak ran from roughly 
541 to 549 right around the time

1714
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:20,600
of that second volcano and it 
continued past that third 

1715
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,280
eruption. 
It actually continued until the 

1716
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:24,120
seven 50s. 
It lasted for a long time and in

1717
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:26,840
arguably you could say it just 
still continued because this is 

1718
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,840
Yersinia pestis. 
That's the Black Death y'all, 

1719
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:33,000
the earliest version of it. 
It's still not gone by the way. 

1720
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,160
That's what I'm saying. 
Continued until the seven 50s. 

1721
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:37,560
Well, the the Black Death of 
Europe, the big famous one, that

1722
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:41,200
was the 13th or the 14th century
and it still exists now. 

1723
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,880
Well, there's still 1 to 2000 
cases a year globally of the 

1724
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:46,800
Yersinia pestis. 
It's much easier to treat now, 

1725
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,880
but still it, it, it also 
impacts non humans. 

1726
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:51,760
It impacts some other mammals, 
which is creepy. 

1727
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:56,320
So yet another awful world event
at the same time that helped 

1728
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:57,880
shape the origin of the Norse 
world. 

1729
01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:59,760
So put all that together, they 
had all those things. 

1730
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,360
No wonder Norse mythology about 
the origin of the world is so 

1731
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,240
brutal and dark because all that
was happening, all this terrible

1732
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:09,760
things were happening. 
The, the people that survived 

1733
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:12,160
that were like, how the hell did
we survive that? 

1734
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:14,840
And it must have been 
traumatizing. 

1735
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:18,320
And the which was passed on like
generational trauma from living 

1736
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:20,160
through that would have been 
passed on to the children of the

1737
01:32:20,160 --> 01:32:23,280
next generation who are still 
growing up in a bad time, not as

1738
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:25,760
bad as their parents lived in. 
But it's, it's not like the 

1739
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:28,680
world's going to recover in one 
generation from such a horrible 

1740
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:31,560
series of events, especially 
considering what we were told 

1741
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:33,960
here, that the plague just kept 
going. 

1742
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,040
And, you know, you still got 
wars and migrations and all this

1743
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,240
other stuff. 
And what do we have in Westeros 

1744
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,320
as an equivalent grayscale? 
Maybe other plagues too. 

1745
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:46,960
Bloody flux, just who knows. 
But the idea that grayscale is 

1746
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:49,320
coming is well supported. 
It's it's already there and it 

1747
01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:51,360
just hasn't broken out or 
anything yet. 

1748
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:55,040
We've been beating that drum for
a long time and the real world 

1749
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:57,680
science supports us in our 
theory quite well. 

1750
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:00,360
Cold weather. 
There's a lot of science that 

1751
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:03,480
supports the idea that cold 
weather increases the spread of 

1752
01:33:03,480 --> 01:33:06,680
certain diseases, such as this 
particular one, Ursinia pestis. 

1753
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:11,000
Because cold reduces your immune
system, so does lack of food. 

1754
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,480
So does stress. 
That's very straightforward. 

1755
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,240
So it is just huddling together 
for warmth. 

1756
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:20,120
If you're all packed around the 
fire, you're all sitting next to

1757
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,000
each other. 
Well, it's easier to pass 

1758
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:24,920
disease to someone sitting next 
to you than someone in the next 

1759
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,000
house, right? 
So you, you, you huddle together

1760
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:28,600
for warmth. 
That can actually help the 

1761
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:32,240
disease spread more. 
And that thing we talked about a

1762
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:36,720
minute ago, human migrations, 
when one population mingles with

1763
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:38,920
another, they share the 
diseases. 

1764
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:42,040
One population group may already
have built up a herd immunity to

1765
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,520
a certain disease that this new 
group they popped into does not.

1766
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:47,080
And they transmit that. 
And meanwhile, they transmit 

1767
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:50,800
diseases back to the other way. 
It's like a microcosm of the 

1768
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:55,640
Spaniards going to South America
and just obliterating huge 

1769
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:58,480
swaths of the natives by doing 
basically nothing. 

1770
01:33:58,480 --> 01:34:02,960
Just have our diseases. 
You didn't develop immunity to 

1771
01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:04,800
these things. 
We did 'cause our people have 

1772
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,760
been living amongst livestock 
for centuries and yours don't. 

1773
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:11,320
So you're screwed. 
Now, of course, people weren't 

1774
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:14,040
migrating to Scandinavia, and 
this time, when it was horrible,

1775
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,560
when you couldn't even live 
there, but plague would have 

1776
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:19,840
been an issue, it certainly made
getting help from elsewhere 

1777
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:22,880
harder, made everything. 
Yeah, just obviously that's 

1778
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:26,040
going to be bad. 
So this was called the Justinian

1779
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:28,280
plague 'cause it happened during
the time of Emperor Justinian. 

1780
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:31,840
But really, again, it's the 
Black, Black Death, just the 

1781
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,160
early version of it. 
A historian, David Keyes, wrote 

1782
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:37,440
that this plague actually is 
partially responsible for the 

1783
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:39,840
decline of the Avars, the 
migration of the Mongols, the 

1784
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,840
end of the Sasanian Empire, the 
collapse of the Gupta Empire, 

1785
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:45,960
the rise of Islam, the expansion
of Turkish tribes, and the fall 

1786
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:49,200
of Teotihuacan. 
A lot of historians disagree 

1787
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:51,360
with that, though, so take that 
with a grain of salt maybe. 

1788
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:54,480
So maybe he's on to something, 
but he's gone a little too far 

1789
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:58,880
with some of the details. 
But it's not unthinkable or even

1790
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:02,840
outrageous to think that a 
global 3 volcanoes covering the 

1791
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:06,000
earth with clouds could do 
serious damage to a lot of 

1792
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:10,320
different places all over. 
Maybe not certainly to cause the

1793
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:12,520
collapse of something that you 
might need. 

1794
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:14,400
Other factors, they may have 
already been weak. 

1795
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:18,440
You know, it's hard to ever just
attribute one thing to 

1796
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,200
civilization. 
You know, it's too complicated. 

1797
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:24,400
We're dealing with humans. 
So I'm just again, just so blown

1798
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,120
away by how cool all that 
information is and how well it 

1799
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:31,120
supports a scientific basis for 
mythology, which is, you know, 

1800
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,360
growing up, the idea of science 
supporting mythology was just 

1801
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:36,720
like, no, those don't go 
together at all, you know, and 

1802
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:43,040
but nowadays that barrier is 
closing, that the space between 

1803
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:46,400
those two is evaporating. 
We, we can parse them as 

1804
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:49,120
different, but we see the 
connection at the same time. 

1805
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:55,240
Cultural memory and history, 
confluence of it with the latest

1806
01:35:55,240 --> 01:35:58,640
discoveries and what we are, 
what we've learned in the last 

1807
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:04,200
15 years. 
Long Night, let's get to 

1808
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:06,760
Westeros. 
A lot of parallels you've 

1809
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:08,120
noticed along the way on your 
own. 

1810
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:11,200
We've pointed out many others. 
Let's try to put it all together

1811
01:36:11,440 --> 01:36:13,360
while also pointing out a few 
key differences. 

1812
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,120
So now for most of the rest of 
the episode, if not the rest of 

1813
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:18,920
the episode, we have quotes from
North instead of North mythology

1814
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:20,920
quotes. 
We have The Song of Ice and Fire

1815
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:23,040
and World of Ice and Fire and 
related quotes. 

1816
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,320
A long night quote from the 
World of Ice and Fire. 

1817
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:30,320
Here it is. 
As the First Men established 

1818
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:34,800
their realms following the Pact,
little troubled them save their 

1819
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:39,040
own feuds in wars, or so the 
histories tell us. 

1820
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:43,880
It is also from these histories 
that we learn of the Long Night 

1821
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:48,600
when a season of winter came 
that lasted a generation. 

1822
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:53,920
A generation in which children 
were born, grew into adulthood 

1823
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:58,720
and in many cases died without 
ever seeing the spring. 

1824
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:04,320
Indeed, some of the old wives 
tales say that they never even 

1825
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:08,680
beheld the light of day, so 
complete was the winter that 

1826
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:12,960
fell on the world. 
While this last may well be no 

1827
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:18,640
more than fancy, the fact that 
some cataclysm took place many 

1828
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:21,480
thousands of years ago seems 
certain. 

1829
01:37:22,480 --> 01:37:24,880
So it's kind of interesting to 
to compare this to the real 

1830
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:28,080
world. 
Only recently did we as a 

1831
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:31,880
society or as a people, as 
humans, figure out that these 

1832
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:35,640
things about the volcanoes and 
Ragnarok and the formation of 

1833
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:39,320
the Viking Age Norse world, 
Before that, it would have been 

1834
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:40,440
a lot of stuff, would have been 
doubted. 

1835
01:37:40,640 --> 01:37:44,480
But here, the maesters, they 
often downplay magic, especially

1836
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:47,320
the ancient mythical stuff, but 
they don't doubt that some 

1837
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:49,280
cataclysm. 
Cataclysm took place many 

1838
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,600
thousands of years ago. 
Seems certain is the word 

1839
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:55,400
attached to it. 
So that's pretty strong. 

1840
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:58,520
It's not enough to hear the 
Maeschly version though, because

1841
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:03,400
Norse Smith is not delivered to 
us that way, though we do listen

1842
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:04,960
to the scholars of Norse Smith 
in history. 

1843
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,240
Of course, that's a huge basis 
for where all this episode came 

1844
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:10,320
from. 
The Long Night really did 

1845
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:12,840
happen, though it was likely 
exaggerated. 

1846
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:18,440
Ragnarok is a much more heavily 
mythologized version, symbolic 

1847
01:38:18,440 --> 01:38:21,560
version of real events. 
The the Long Night's a little 

1848
01:38:21,560 --> 01:38:23,480
more literal, which is kind of 
funny to think about that The 

1849
01:38:23,480 --> 01:38:25,600
fantastic version is, is more 
straightforward. 

1850
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,600
So both of them had, you know, 
winter and darkness and 

1851
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:31,840
starvation and famine and 
collapse of civilization. 

1852
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:36,200
Long Night had that too, but you
know, there's not necessarily an

1853
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:38,320
equivalent to Thor fighting the 
World Serpent. 

1854
01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:41,200
You know, here that's I don't 
have a parallel for that other 

1855
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:43,520
than the Robert Rhaegar. 
Not during the Long Night, 

1856
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:45,960
though. 
So here's we had the Maestrol 

1857
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:48,040
version, Here's Old Nan's 
version. 

1858
01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:51,600
It's equivalent again. 
She's not a literal serious, but

1859
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:55,040
playing the role of 1 and very 
well. 

1860
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:58,720
Not long after Bran gets a 
lesson from his father about 

1861
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:03,240
fear, Old Nan knocks him right 
back down a peg, and fairly so. 

1862
01:39:03,720 --> 01:39:05,760
So there. 
This is a slightly edited 

1863
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,040
version of the Old Nan's story 
here. 

1864
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:10,760
I just took out the parts where 
Bran is interrupting. 

1865
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,920
So this is just a all at once 
all of Old Nan in a row here. 

1866
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:15,440
Quote. 
Oh. 

1867
01:39:15,440 --> 01:39:21,080
My sweet summer child, Old Nan 
said quietly, What do you know 

1868
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:24,320
of fear? 
Fear is for the winter, my 

1869
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:29,800
little Lord, when the snows fall
100 feet deep and the ice wind 

1870
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:35,280
comes howling out of the north. 
Fear is for the long night, when

1871
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:40,120
the sun hides its face for years
at a time and little children 

1872
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:45,880
are born and live and die all in
darkness, while the direwolves 

1873
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:50,320
grow gaunt and hungry and the 
White Walkers move through the 

1874
01:39:50,320 --> 01:39:53,800
woods. 
Thousands and thousands of years

1875
01:39:53,800 --> 01:40:00,440
ago, a winter fell that was cold
and hard and endless beyond all 

1876
01:40:00,440 --> 01:40:04,040
memory of man. 
There came a night that lasted a

1877
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:09,360
generation, and kings shivered 
and died in their castles even 

1878
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:12,200
as the swine herds in their 
hovels. 

1879
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:17,480
Women smothered their children 
rather than see them starve, and

1880
01:40:17,480 --> 01:40:22,280
cried and felt their tears 
freeze on their cheeks. 

1881
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:26,840
In that darkness the others came
for the first time. 

1882
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:33,160
They were cold things, dead 
things that hated iron and fire 

1883
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:37,280
and the touch of the sun and 
every creature with hot blood in

1884
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:40,920
its veins. 
They swept over hold fasts and 

1885
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:46,120
cities and kingdoms, felled 
heroes and armies by the score, 

1886
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:50,840
riding their pale dead horses 
and leading hosts of the slain. 

1887
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:55,800
All the swords of men could not 
stay their advance, and even 

1888
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:59,880
maidens and suckling babes found
no pity in them. 

1889
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:05,160
They haunted the maids through 
frozen forests and fed their 

1890
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:08,600
dead servants on the flesh of 
human children. 

1891
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:13,240
Bran's connection to Odin here 
rings very loudly through 

1892
01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:16,280
Bloodraven, of course, and given
it is Odin who speaks to the 

1893
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:20,360
Cirrus here just as Bran is 
speaking to Old Nan, Bran may in

1894
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:22,840
fact probably will succeed. 
Cause again, I just don't see 

1895
01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:26,560
how the full extent of the Long 
Night could actually happen in 

1896
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:29,240
the span of the series. 
It's if it's that long a 

1897
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:32,280
generation or even 10 years. 
The story is not going to cover 

1898
01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:34,160
10 more years. 
You know what I mean? 

1899
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:37,440
So that's just right there, a 
logistical argument against the 

1900
01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:40,680
long night being prevented. 
So the quote doesn't actually 

1901
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:42,640
end there, though it it 
continues with the description 

1902
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,920
of the last hero, which is 
interrupted George's famous 

1903
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,840
interruption style and is 
interrupted by Maester Lewin, 

1904
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:51,200
the representative of the of the
academic side of things. 

1905
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:55,000
It's kind of fitting that he 
interrupts the the myth story to

1906
01:41:55,000 --> 01:42:01,440
be like, stop that, you know, 
And but with him is Hodor, who 

1907
01:42:01,440 --> 01:42:03,760
opens the door, close, you know,
hold the door, open the door, 

1908
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:05,720
close the door. 
He opens the door with a bang. 

1909
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:09,360
Of course, Hodor's likely to 
have a role in helping Bran. 

1910
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:12,280
He said he's wrapped up in the 
whole in all this stuff with 

1911
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:15,200
with the end of the world. 
And he's in The Cave with them. 

1912
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:18,440
And yeah, Bran is using him to 
see through his eyes and use 

1913
01:42:18,440 --> 01:42:21,720
him, you know, might fight 
through his body or whatever. 

1914
01:42:22,280 --> 01:42:25,840
So definitely important, but he 
probably won't make it through 

1915
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:28,240
the end like the Norse hoder God
does. 

1916
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:31,320
A major difference though. 
A song of ice and fire is dark. 

1917
01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:34,480
It's it's less dark than North 
myth. 

1918
01:42:34,480 --> 01:42:35,920
Right? 
I keep saying that it's like man

1919
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:39,880
George made it really dark. 
But Norse myth is worse because 

1920
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:42,080
of all the horrible things it 
was born out of as we keep 

1921
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:44,160
saying. 
And it's horrible both at the 

1922
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:46,520
beginning and the end of these 
epoch cycles. 

1923
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:50,120
The pre Ragnarok and the the 
whatever Ragnarok happened the 

1924
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:53,480
first time and then, you know, 
back before that, Apparently 

1925
01:42:53,480 --> 01:42:54,920
there were more cycles even 
before that. 

1926
01:42:55,480 --> 01:42:59,720
So the long night's impact, for 
example, isn't even as grim. 

1927
01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:04,240
Let's hear a quote on that. 
How the Long Night came to an 

1928
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:08,280
end is a matter of legend, as 
all such matters of the distant 

1929
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:13,440
past have become in the North. 
They tell of a last hero who 

1930
01:43:13,440 --> 01:43:17,520
sought out the intercession of 
the Children of the Forest, his 

1931
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:22,440
companions abandoning him or 
dying 1 by 1 as they faced 

1932
01:43:22,440 --> 01:43:28,560
ravenous giants, cold servants 
and the others themselves alone.

1933
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:32,840
He finally reached the Children 
despite the efforts of the White

1934
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:37,520
Walkers, and all the tales agree
this was a turning point. 

1935
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:41,760
Thanks to the Children, the 
First men of the Night's Watch 

1936
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:47,320
banded together and were able to
fight and win the Battle for the

1937
01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:52,640
Dawn, the last battle that broke
the endless winter and sent the 

1938
01:43:52,640 --> 01:43:58,440
others fleeing to the icy north.
What this sounds like is a 

1939
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:03,040
version of Ragnarok where the 
gods win and avert the 

1940
01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:05,040
cataclysm. 
Like it's a lot of it's already 

1941
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:08,280
happened, but they stop the 
actual end of the world. 

1942
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:12,880
Still a great cost, but it's 
preserved. 

1943
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:15,800
You know things don't end it. 
You might still consider at the 

1944
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:19,600
end of an age, the beginning of 
a new one, but with a lot less 

1945
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:22,600
devastation and destruction, a 
lot easier of a transition. 

1946
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:26,360
Still hard transition, but it's 
not just like utterly devastated

1947
01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:30,160
humans crawling out of the ashes
of a world that's been 

1948
01:44:30,480 --> 01:44:36,880
incinerated and frozen. 
So that's a neat point here, 

1949
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:39,320
that the Norse world is like, 
not it's going to end. 

1950
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,960
It's going to be terrible. 
George is like the heroes, 

1951
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:45,480
bittersweet ending, but the 
heroes are going to stop it. 

1952
01:44:45,480 --> 01:44:47,200
They won't. 
The worst won't happen. 

1953
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:50,880
Ragnarok, the worst happens. 
But even in Ragnarok, the world 

1954
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:54,560
rebuilds itself, nature heals, 
and the world begins anew. 

1955
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:56,880
So it's still not an end end, 
right? 

1956
01:44:57,720 --> 01:45:02,160
There's equivalent stories all 
around, mostly Essos, which 

1957
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,000
speak of a great darkness that 
lasted these other versions of 

1958
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:08,000
it, and little tidbits of what 
they think. 

1959
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:10,840
This culture in each individual 
respective culture, what they 

1960
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:13,600
think ended it. 
The Crab King and the Old Man of

1961
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:16,880
the River and other lesser gods,
the Roynar believe they came 

1962
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:20,480
together and sang a secret song 
to bring back the day. 

1963
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,760
Obviously there's a Zora High, a
shy, the Red Sword of Heroes and

1964
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:26,280
this and this and all that 
business. 

1965
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:32,320
Yee Tee has their legend about a
woman and a dude with a monkey's

1966
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:36,200
tail helping her, which is a 
little obscure but certainly 

1967
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:39,800
belongs in this category. 
Again, I want to point out the 

1968
01:45:40,480 --> 01:45:44,080
scale here because the 6th 
century on earth was only 1500 

1969
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:46,800
years ago. 
Long Night 6 to 8000 ago, maybe 

1970
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:49,120
4 at the least, but probably 
more like 6 to 8. 

1971
01:45:49,440 --> 01:45:54,920
So that's just the span of lost 
information and myth turning 

1972
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:59,080
even more mythy would be a lot 
greater. 

1973
01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:01,840
So of all the elements of 
Ragnarok, the biggest overlap 

1974
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:03,520
seemed to be the winter and the 
darkness. 

1975
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:06,280
Maybe the fire at the end, 
maybe. 

1976
01:46:06,560 --> 01:46:09,400
And it's they come in the same 
order, first the winter, the 

1977
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:12,200
terrible winter, and then it 
lingers and lingers and then the

1978
01:46:12,200 --> 01:46:16,440
darkness and then the others. 
Now in Ragnarok, it's the the 

1979
01:46:16,440 --> 01:46:18,880
final battle happens. 
And there's the but there's 

1980
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:22,120
also, but the human element is 
the same in both starvation, 

1981
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:25,320
fighting over diminished 
resources, descent into incest, 

1982
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:29,400
murder, lust, animal behavior. 
As mentioned earlier, this means

1983
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:31,880
we should be considering, given 
that Ragnarok has all these 

1984
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:34,880
geological events as part of it,
maybe that is something that 

1985
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:36,600
will happen during Westerosi 
Long Night. 

1986
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:39,720
Or maybe they won't be 
geological but they will be just

1987
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:43,760
calamitous Eurons attacks which 
may be sorceress, maybe stealing

1988
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:48,520
a dragon, The invasion of 
relorists alongside Danny who? 

1989
01:46:48,760 --> 01:46:52,000
They believe she's the Princess 
that was promised, they believe 

1990
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:55,320
she's Azora High reborn. 
That could be a problem if they 

1991
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:57,880
arrive in hordes and even she 
can't control them. 

1992
01:46:58,480 --> 01:47:02,960
So there's all these different 
elements, war like elements 

1993
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:05,200
descending on Westeros and which
is already fighting amongst 

1994
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:08,360
itself as the Others approach 
from the North, Danny's army 

1995
01:47:08,640 --> 01:47:12,680
coming from the West with 
Dothraki, Unsullied, etcetera. 

1996
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:15,360
Just a lot of different 
factions, a lot of different 

1997
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:17,000
peoples. 
Westeros. 

1998
01:47:17,160 --> 01:47:18,480
Yeah. 
And there's Dragons and Others. 

1999
01:47:18,480 --> 01:47:20,760
I mean, there's all these so 
much it's like, it is like a 

2000
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:22,080
last battle, everybody coming 
together. 

2001
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:27,720
A real kind of an inversion of 
the Others is that they hate 

2002
01:47:27,720 --> 01:47:32,440
iron and fire, right? 
Supposedly Odin gives the power 

2003
01:47:32,440 --> 01:47:34,880
to berserkers to be impervious 
to fire and iron. 

2004
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:40,200
The opposite there. 
Ice, spiders, undead horses, The

2005
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:44,240
Walking Dead, those are the 
equivalent of the beings that 

2006
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:48,080
are unleashed during Ragnarok. 
And the raising of the dead is a

2007
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:51,480
thing in Norse myth too. 
Not necessarily in this context.

2008
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:53,600
Not the exact same way 
certainly, but it does happen. 

2009
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:56,520
I remember again, the White 
Walkers is male Valkyrie that 

2010
01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:58,720
fits their escorting souls to 
battle. 

2011
01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:01,920
They are rather than bringing 
the dead to battle. 

2012
01:48:02,440 --> 01:48:03,960
And they're both terrible to 
behold. 

2013
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:06,640
One's masculine, one's feminine 
variant. 

2014
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:10,920
There's so the opposite, right? 
One of the one of them, the soul

2015
01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:12,480
bad. 
The souls are brought to fight 

2016
01:48:12,480 --> 01:48:15,240
in the last battle for the bad 
guys and nor Smith they're 

2017
01:48:15,240 --> 01:48:17,080
they're fought. 
They're bringing back the the 

2018
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:19,800
souls of the brave warriors of 
Valhalla to fight for the good 

2019
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:22,000
guys. 
I'm calling good guys humanity 

2020
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:24,120
because hey, we're all included 
in that, right? 

2021
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:27,840
And if we think about the 
prophesied heroes, the the huge 

2022
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:30,000
number, not necessarily some of 
these are prophesied to come 

2023
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:32,800
again. 
Some of them just were there the

2024
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:36,040
first time. 
Azora, High, Yentar, Nefarion, 

2025
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:39,960
Eldrick, Shadowchaser here, 
Koon, the hero, the last hero. 

2026
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:42,520
Odin had so many different 
names. 

2027
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:46,240
Thor had multiple names. 
Fenrier, Some of these basic 

2028
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:49,800
monsters had multiple names. 
We're not even sure if some of 

2029
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:52,760
these other characters like 
might have had multiple names. 

2030
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:54,960
We're not sure if that's the 
case or not, right? 

2031
01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:58,800
I mentioned Garmir the wolf, 
which is probably Fenrir. 

2032
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:02,800
Probably the same being, but not
100% sure about that since we 

2033
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:05,800
don't have active deities 
running around. 

2034
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:07,080
That's a major difference, 
right? 

2035
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:09,200
George doesn't have deities 
running around doing stuff. 

2036
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:11,000
We're not aware of them, we 
don't perceive them. 

2037
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:13,400
They don't have a 
personification in that way. 

2038
01:49:13,560 --> 01:49:15,880
The people in the story believe 
in them. 

2039
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:21,160
They might even draw power from 
them, but they're not present in

2040
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:24,640
a way that we can point directly
to. 

2041
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:31,960
So the heroes in a Song of Ice 
and Fire are the gods in the in 

2042
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:33,280
in the Ragnarok, they're the 
equivalent. 

2043
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:35,600
It's the gods fighting this 
final battle along with the 

2044
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:39,560
raised heroes from Valhalla. 
There's there aren't like a 

2045
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:41,440
bunch of heroes. 
It isn't like there are Norse 

2046
01:49:41,440 --> 01:49:44,240
heroes and myth, but those 
people aren't there. 

2047
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:46,840
Well, I guess they might be in 
the form of the souls of 

2048
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:49,120
Valhalla, but they're not named.
It's not like cigarette the 

2049
01:49:49,120 --> 01:49:52,280
dragon Slayer comes back and 
Ragnar Lothbrook and all these 

2050
01:49:52,280 --> 01:49:55,280
other guys they're you know, 
they're not named specifically. 

2051
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:58,760
Kind of assume they made that 
list, but they're not named. 

2052
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:01,880
So we could think of it that 
way, right? 

2053
01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:06,680
That that the the heroes, the 
last hero, specifically the Jon 

2054
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:10,280
Snow, whatever whichever 1 he is
Danny, they are the equivalent, 

2055
01:50:10,280 --> 01:50:12,880
the great heroes. 
They're somewhat supernatural in

2056
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:15,360
themselves. 
John's a raised from the dead. 

2057
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:17,600
Danny's got dragon blood. 
She's the mother of dragon. 

2058
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:20,600
She's performed a miracle, 
should walk through fire, all 

2059
01:50:20,600 --> 01:50:24,120
this other stuff. 
These are mythological deeds. 

2060
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:26,120
These would fit very well in a 
myth cycle. 

2061
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:28,520
And they probably will in 
Westeros, you know, 100 years 

2062
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:31,360
ago has passed and these things 
will start to become 

2063
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:33,400
mythologized. 
Mythologized. 

2064
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:36,720
That word is hard. 
So yeah, there's like instead of

2065
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:40,840
deities, they're superhumans. 
They're like, it's a vaguely 

2066
01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:43,920
like the ancient deities of 
Westeros, which we'll talk about

2067
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:45,400
in a moment here. 
It's our last section. 

2068
01:50:46,480 --> 01:50:50,960
So yeah, I do think that the as 
a semi conclusion here, I think 

2069
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:54,280
the events of Ragnarok are akin 
to the original Long Night, 

2070
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:56,920
which is that it will be 
prevented. 

2071
01:50:56,920 --> 01:50:59,320
The original Long Night happened
but got stopped before it could 

2072
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:01,080
be the worst. 
So they're similar in that 

2073
01:51:01,080 --> 01:51:04,600
sense, but one of them is not 
going to be as devastating. 

2074
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:07,320
Long Night won't hit as hard, 
especially the new version. 

2075
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:08,440
I think that will be more 
averted. 

2076
01:51:08,440 --> 01:51:11,200
We're certainly not going to see
a generation of of Winter before

2077
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:16,000
we get to some final battle. 
So it helps us to see here what 

2078
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,600
we're seeing, what is being 
averted, though, even though it 

2079
01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:21,520
won't, it won't necessarily 
happen, but we would like to see

2080
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:23,480
what these heroes are 
preventing. 

2081
01:51:23,480 --> 01:51:27,840
What exactly is the fate that is
being dodged here? 

2082
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:32,120
It's inevitable too, right? 
That's a thing in both cases. 

2083
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:35,400
It's not inevitable in that it 
will happen. 

2084
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:36,720
It's inevitable that it will 
come. 

2085
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:38,720
Ragnarok is like, you can't stop
it. 

2086
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:40,120
That's kind of the way the 
prophecy works there. 

2087
01:51:40,320 --> 01:51:42,640
But the prophecies in The Song 
of Ice and Fire, they don't 

2088
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:46,760
point to Ragnarok, the Last 
Night or the Long Night. 

2089
01:51:46,760 --> 01:51:49,640
They point to the stopping of 
the Long Night. 

2090
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:52,000
The prophecies. 
We are delivered Princess again,

2091
01:51:52,000 --> 01:51:53,960
Princess that was promised, 
Azora High, all these other 

2092
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:55,600
things, Last hero, that's what 
we get. 

2093
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:59,000
We don't get some prophecy 
about, yeah, humanity's screwed,

2094
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:04,080
everyone's going to die. 
That is what Ragnarok tells us. 

2095
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:07,640
So that's a difference. 
It's like, well, Westera, the 

2096
01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:09,400
Song of Ice is hard. 
They're going to win. 

2097
01:52:09,400 --> 01:52:13,320
It's going to be hard. 
But yeah, I love that. 

2098
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:17,160
So the survivors, which we might
get like a footnote or a 

2099
01:52:17,480 --> 01:52:21,160
epilogue type scenario where we 
see the state of Westeros as the

2100
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:24,400
story's ending. 
And it might be kind of like it 

2101
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:26,200
won't be as bad as Ragnarok. 
It won't be like, man, there's 

2102
01:52:26,200 --> 01:52:30,080
only like 2 people now. 
I don't think humanity will be 

2103
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:32,400
reduced to two souls, and I 
don't think we'll have a new 

2104
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:37,800
sun, a new moon. 
But it will be a situation where

2105
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:42,240
good meaning humanity triumphs, 
but at heavy cost, and the 

2106
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:43,720
survivors will have a lot to 
deal with. 

2107
01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:49,680
But they survived. 
Westeros reset. 

2108
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:53,840
What kind of things would change
or what kind of things did 

2109
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:58,360
change in The Last Long Night? 
What were things that marked one

2110
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:01,520
epoch from the next like in in 
the real world? 

2111
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,880
There's these celestial ages, 
the age of Aquarius, the age, 

2112
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:07,200
well, I don't remember the 
others, but they're connected to

2113
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:08,720
the Zodiac. 
But it's, it's a matter of huge 

2114
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:10,640
time scale, like 1000 years or 
something like that. 

2115
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:12,080
When actually stars are 
different. 

2116
01:53:12,440 --> 01:53:16,320
There's, there's enough time 
passes on Earth that the we're 

2117
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:18,960
in a different part of the Milky
Way or the we're facing a 

2118
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:21,080
different part of the Milky Way 
and we can see different stars. 

2119
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:22,400
Takes a long time for that to 
happen. 

2120
01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:26,760
But we're talking about a huge 
scale of time here in Westeros. 

2121
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:29,840
There's no Milky Way. 
They have the Westeros. 

2122
01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:33,000
It's the Milky of the Poppy Way,
right? 

2123
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:35,680
So it's a different set of 
consulate, but the same thing 

2124
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:38,320
happens. 
Like whatever stars, the people,

2125
01:53:38,320 --> 01:53:40,760
the great Empire of the Dawn 
we're looking at, it's different

2126
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:43,720
now for the people in the 
current time, right? 

2127
01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:51,320
The heavens seem fixed to any 
people that don't know what we 

2128
01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:54,240
know about astronomy. 
And it seems like that's never 

2129
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:55,960
going to change, right? 
That's just how it always is, 

2130
01:53:55,960 --> 01:53:58,040
always will be. 
But that is not true, right? 

2131
01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:00,320
It's just such a huge time it 
takes for it to pass. 

2132
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:04,440
It's a great way to mark or to 
show a difference between 2 

2133
01:54:04,440 --> 01:54:06,640
epochs. 
And that is what happens in 

2134
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:08,920
Ragnarok, right? 
The sun and the moon and the 

2135
01:54:08,920 --> 01:54:13,600
stars all go away. 
They do come back, but are they 

2136
01:54:13,600 --> 01:54:15,200
the exactly the same? 
Probably not. 

2137
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:17,800
They're probably different. 
Why would they be the same? 

2138
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:19,400
Why would they be exactly the 
same? 

2139
01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:24,000
They might be, but I don't know 
why we would assume that George 

2140
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:28,520
RR Martin gave a change of the 
nature of seasons, length of 

2141
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:33,600
seasons, rotation cycles, 
celestial stuff as one of his 

2142
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:37,800
markers quote. 
Septon Barth appeared to argue 

2143
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:42,880
in a fragmentary treatise that 
the inconstancy of the seasons 

2144
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:46,360
was a matter of magical art 
rather than trustworthy 

2145
01:54:46,360 --> 01:54:49,720
knowledge. 
Maester Nichols, The Measure of 

2146
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:54,600
the Days, otherwise a laudable 
work containing much of use, 

2147
01:54:55,160 --> 01:54:57,680
seems influenced by this 
argument. 

2148
01:54:58,160 --> 01:55:01,640
Based upon his work on the 
movement of stars in the 

2149
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:07,120
firmament, Nickel argues 
unconvincingly that the seasons 

2150
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:11,240
might once have been of a 
regular length, determined 

2151
01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:15,480
solely by the way in which the 
globe faces the sun in its 

2152
01:55:15,480 --> 01:55:19,400
heavenly course. 
The notion behind it seems true 

2153
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:23,800
enough that the lengthening and 
shortening of days, if more 

2154
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:29,120
regular, would have led to more 
regular seasons, but he could 

2155
01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:33,480
find no evidence that such was 
ever the case beyond the most 

2156
01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:36,760
ancient of tales. 
You really got to unpack this 

2157
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:39,920
one. 
This is a great example of the 

2158
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,200
opposite of what we saw before, 
where the maesterly take was, 

2159
01:55:43,320 --> 01:55:44,520
well, yeah, the Long Night 
happened. 

2160
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:47,320
Something like that happened. 
We're not going to agree with 

2161
01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:49,840
all these details and stories, 
but some sort of cataclysm 

2162
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:51,600
happened, Yes. 
That we can't deny. 

2163
01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:56,000
In this case, they're like, Nah,
Nah, no way, the guy says. 

2164
01:55:56,320 --> 01:55:59,880
Nickel argues unconvincingly. 
Well, we know better. 

2165
01:55:59,880 --> 01:56:01,760
Saptenbarth brought it up so 
automatically. 

2166
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:03,200
That gives it a lot of 
credibility. 

2167
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:05,720
And look at this last line. 
He could find no evidence that 

2168
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:07,520
such was ever the case. 
Beyond the most ancient hotel. 

2169
01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:10,360
When else would there be 
sources? 

2170
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:12,200
This happened ancient in ancient
times. 

2171
01:56:12,200 --> 01:56:13,760
What other sources would there 
be? 

2172
01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:17,280
That's the only source. 
The ancient tale, the ones who 

2173
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:19,400
lived through it would be the 
ones who could tell you about 

2174
01:56:19,400 --> 01:56:21,240
it. 
But he's like, Nah, those don't 

2175
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:23,320
count. 
This was too long ago. 

2176
01:56:23,320 --> 01:56:26,920
I can't believe it. 
So it's cultural memory, right? 

2177
01:56:26,920 --> 01:56:30,760
The fact that people are trying 
to get at what life was like 

2178
01:56:30,760 --> 01:56:32,840
thousands of years ago. 
They don't necessarily have 

2179
01:56:32,840 --> 01:56:35,600
enough of a connection to the 
people that lived that long ago 

2180
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:39,000
to know, but they have an A 
seedling of that. 

2181
01:56:39,200 --> 01:56:43,040
And the concept makes sense that
the seasons could have been 

2182
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:45,960
even. 
Where did that ID even come 

2183
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:49,000
from? 
If you are born into a world 

2184
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:51,640
that's always had irregular 
seasons, would you even call 

2185
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:54,240
them a regular? 
You would just this is just how 

2186
01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:56,000
it is. 
Winter is sometimes longer. 

2187
01:56:56,160 --> 01:56:58,200
You know, you might, I guess you
could call that a regular, but 

2188
01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:00,000
the perception of it would be 
this is normal. 

2189
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:04,640
You might say inconsistent. 
The lengths change, but the 

2190
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:08,080
basic scenario is normal. 
That's that the seasons are 

2191
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:09,920
irregular or the seasons aren't 
equal. 

2192
01:57:09,920 --> 01:57:14,360
We'll say it that way. 
So he doesn't say the most 

2193
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:17,920
ancient of sources, right? 
He says the most ancient of 

2194
01:57:17,920 --> 01:57:20,320
tales because they wouldn't be 
written down. 

2195
01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:23,160
He wouldn't have ancient. 
He don't have sources from the 

2196
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:25,720
prior to the first line. 
They don't have books that were 

2197
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:27,600
written during the great empire,
the Dawn. 

2198
01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:31,960
They don't have the equivalent 
of maesterly recordings from 

2199
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:36,400
that era. 
So, yeah, another example of 

2200
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:39,240
cultural memory, obscured 
cultural memory. 

2201
01:57:39,240 --> 01:57:43,240
That's part true, part not. 
Or that you could see a grain of

2202
01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:45,120
truth in, but you can't get the 
whole picture. 

2203
01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:47,680
Look at examples of long 
standing enmity. 

2204
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:49,880
Bolton and Stark have hated each
other forever. 

2205
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:52,600
Why? 
We don't know Blackwood and 

2206
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:53,760
Bracken. 
They've hated each other even 

2207
01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:56,440
more. 
And again, they don't know what 

2208
01:57:56,440 --> 01:57:59,560
started it all. 
We've heard alternate versions 

2209
01:57:59,560 --> 01:58:01,960
of what started it all. 
We have no way to know which one

2210
01:58:01,960 --> 01:58:04,400
of them is true. 
Or the idea that the Blackwoods 

2211
01:58:04,400 --> 01:58:06,360
came from the North, That they 
were originally a house in the 

2212
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:08,640
North that got driven out by the
Starks and then they settled in 

2213
01:58:08,640 --> 01:58:10,960
the South. 
That's a theory. 

2214
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:14,040
There's some evidence to support
it, but they don't know for 

2215
01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:16,120
sure. 
Even the Blackwoods don't know 

2216
01:58:16,120 --> 01:58:17,000
that. 
Probably. 

2217
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:20,080
So good example. 
They have a memory of it that's 

2218
01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:23,520
been passed down, but they don't
have the like, direct evidence. 

2219
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:25,880
They just, it's a story we've 
been told. 

2220
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:29,240
We have no reason to doubt it, 
but we can't. 

2221
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:32,640
We can't prove it, just like 
Barth and Nicole can't prove 

2222
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:35,360
their theory here, their 
postulation. 

2223
01:58:35,680 --> 01:58:37,680
Here's another example from the 
world of Ice and Fire. 

2224
01:58:37,680 --> 01:58:41,240
A really good one of what the 
ancient timeline is said to be 

2225
01:58:41,400 --> 01:58:43,480
according to the Mace of the 
Citadel quote. 

2226
01:58:44,440 --> 01:58:49,160
As Westeros recovered from the 
Long Night, a new power was 

2227
01:58:49,160 --> 01:58:53,560
rising in Essos. 
The vast continent stretching 

2228
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:57,880
from the Narrow Sea to the 
fabled Jade Sea and faraway 

2229
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:02,840
Althos seems to be the place 
where civilization as we know it

2230
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:06,200
developed. 
Now what he means or what they 

2231
01:59:06,200 --> 01:59:09,600
mean is the place where 
civilization, as we know, 

2232
01:59:09,600 --> 01:59:12,800
developed after the Long Night. 
It says as Westeros recover from

2233
01:59:12,800 --> 01:59:14,760
the Long Night, a new power is 
rising in Essos. 

2234
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:17,760
Now why did it take longer in 
Westeros? 

2235
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:19,120
Well, because they were hit 
harder. 

2236
01:59:19,120 --> 01:59:21,680
We said that earlier. 
The Others didn't invade Essos, 

2237
01:59:21,680 --> 01:59:25,040
they invaded Westeros. 
They didn't overrun holdfasts 

2238
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:28,360
and children dying. 
And their mothers are smothered 

2239
01:59:28,360 --> 01:59:30,320
by their mother because they 
don't want them to freeze to 

2240
01:59:30,320 --> 01:59:32,640
death. 
That wasn't necessarily 

2241
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:36,880
happening in Jade C and Alfos. 
They were experiencing crop 

2242
01:59:36,880 --> 01:59:41,120
failures and probably other 
problems, but again, not as bad 

2243
01:59:41,120 --> 01:59:44,200
as what Westeros felt. 
So it makes sense that Westeros 

2244
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,560
would lag behind the recovery of
the rest of the world. 

2245
01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:50,640
And that explains why some of 
these societies are much older 

2246
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:55,000
or at least seem like they're 
much older than current 

2247
01:59:55,000 --> 01:59:57,480
Westerosi culture. 
So then of course, this is 

2248
01:59:57,480 --> 02:00:00,600
Speaking of this quote continues
to mention specifics like old 

2249
02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:04,360
GIS and then Valyria. 
Valyria emerge from this, the 

2250
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:07,520
Ghiscari a little before that, 
but of course they emerge from. 

2251
02:00:08,120 --> 02:00:11,840
Peoples that existed prior to 
the Long Night, whose names and 

2252
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:16,000
places and heroes and values 
have been lost. 

2253
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:18,480
But some of it carries over to 
the Ghiscari. 

2254
02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:20,840
We just don't know what. 
We don't know which things came 

2255
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:22,440
from before, which things were 
new. 

2256
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:27,000
Yeah, similar to Ragnarok, the 
entire world was impacted by 

2257
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:30,440
those volcanoes and plague and 
the ensuing wars depredations. 

2258
02:00:30,440 --> 02:00:33,680
But it was worse in Scandinavia 
because they had it harder in 

2259
02:00:33,680 --> 02:00:35,560
the 1st place. 
The cold affected them more. 

2260
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,640
Life was already on the edge. 
So yeah, that's just makes a lot

2261
02:00:39,640 --> 02:00:42,520
of sense, doesn't it? 
I didn't bother with a full 

2262
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:45,120
quote of the week this time 
because we're just using this 

2263
02:00:45,120 --> 02:00:47,680
Children of Ashton Elm book a 
lot today. 

2264
02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:50,200
So that's my recommendation for 
sure. 

2265
02:00:50,200 --> 02:00:53,200
I've gone through it three 
times, plus more than that for 

2266
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:54,760
the Ragnarok section of this 
episode. 

2267
02:00:55,200 --> 02:00:58,480
Just other things that are in 
there that I want to just tease 

2268
02:00:58,480 --> 02:01:00,680
you with or get you to 
interested in this book because 

2269
02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:01,760
I just. 
It's so fun. 

2270
02:01:01,760 --> 02:01:03,840
You'll love it. 
I think it talked about the 

2271
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:07,640
historicity of Odin, like as if 
Odin was a war chief from the 

2272
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:09,400
East. 
There's Indo European culture, 

2273
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:14,040
there's some, this is again, 
fairly new, but one point the 

2274
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:18,600
book makes is, I mean, what's 
fairly new is the idea that some

2275
02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:21,280
Scandinavian culture might be 
mingled with Indo European 

2276
02:01:21,280 --> 02:01:25,600
influence, if not a major thing.
Migrating from the steps. 

2277
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:27,800
OK, migrate from the steps, 
right. 

2278
02:01:27,800 --> 02:01:29,520
So they would have migrated from
the steps and you would, if 

2279
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:32,080
you're coming from that 
direction, you would, you would 

2280
02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:34,400
pass through Scandinavia based 
on where some of the mountain 

2281
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:35,880
passes are, unless you go 
farther. 

2282
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:39,120
S there's just one place you 
could pass through the the 

2283
02:01:39,120 --> 02:01:41,800
barrier between Asia and Europe 
is through Scandinavia's 

2284
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:43,640
mountains. 
There's a lot of places you 

2285
02:01:43,640 --> 02:01:47,680
can't get through, kind of like 
the the bone mountains of Essos.

2286
02:01:47,680 --> 02:01:49,240
It's like only three ways 
through. 

2287
02:01:50,280 --> 02:01:52,800
You can't crossover and just 
anywhere you got to go through 

2288
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:55,880
one of those passes. 
So here's a really interesting 

2289
02:01:56,640 --> 02:01:58,960
tidbit from the book that just 
really struck me. 

2290
02:01:59,400 --> 02:02:05,560
So horse sacrifice is a thing in
the Viking world. 

2291
02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:08,880
They would have sacrificed other
things to other animals, people.

2292
02:02:09,440 --> 02:02:14,200
But usually and more than 
usually, the overwhelming amount

2293
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:17,000
of time when something is 
sacrificed in any culture that 

2294
02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:22,240
does sacrifice, it's something 
that is not necessarily rare, 

2295
02:02:22,480 --> 02:02:27,160
but not common either. 
Like you might sacrifice a White

2296
02:02:27,160 --> 02:02:32,440
Horse, a white bull or a white 
dove, but you're doves are 

2297
02:02:32,440 --> 02:02:34,560
common. 
Bulls are common. 

2298
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:38,520
Horses are not common in 
Scandinavia for the obvious 

2299
02:02:38,520 --> 02:02:41,120
reason we talked about before. 
This is not not like grassland 

2300
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:42,400
where you get a pasture of these
horses. 

2301
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:48,160
It just doesn't support that. 
So why do they sacrifice horses 

2302
02:02:48,160 --> 02:02:50,520
which are extremely rare and 
expensive? 

2303
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:51,880
That doesn't make sense, does 
it? 

2304
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:53,880
It's just weird. 
It's a it's a quirk. 

2305
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:56,480
It's like, why would they? 
It's could just be that that's a

2306
02:02:56,480 --> 02:02:59,680
big deal to sacrifice that. 
But again, that is not well 

2307
02:02:59,680 --> 02:03:04,560
supported by the history of 
sacrifice across lots and lots 

2308
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:09,440
of cultures that do sacrifice. 
What would make sense is if that

2309
02:03:09,440 --> 02:03:14,800
tradition started on the steps 
far to the east of Scandinavia, 

2310
02:03:14,800 --> 02:03:17,800
where horses were plentiful, 
where horses are everything. 

2311
02:03:17,920 --> 02:03:21,440
The earlier versions of the 
Avars, the Huns, the Tartars, 

2312
02:03:21,440 --> 02:03:25,480
the Mongols, they were in some 
ways like the Dothraki, and 

2313
02:03:25,480 --> 02:03:27,800
horse culture is everything to 
them, and they certainly were 

2314
02:03:27,800 --> 02:03:29,560
plentiful. 
Sacrificing one horse? 

2315
02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:32,880
No big deal, Not even close to a
big deal. 

2316
02:03:33,080 --> 02:03:35,680
Sacrificing several horses? 
Probably not a big deal to them,

2317
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:40,320
but to Scandinavians, it's an 
extremely rare thing, hard to 

2318
02:03:40,320 --> 02:03:42,720
give up on. 
You're not sacrificing your own 

2319
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:44,920
children, you're not sacrificing
your closest things. 

2320
02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:46,920
You're sacrificing stuff. 
You're sacrificing animals, 

2321
02:03:46,920 --> 02:03:49,600
things that you own, but not 
things that are that you can't 

2322
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:52,040
live without or things that are 
extremely rare. 

2323
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:54,120
So that's it. 
Hmm right. 

2324
02:03:54,120 --> 02:03:58,280
That makes you think it gives 
some strong evidence to maybe 

2325
02:03:59,040 --> 02:04:03,400
they migrated from the east. 
Maybe Odin was an actual person 

2326
02:04:03,400 --> 02:04:08,960
that later was deified. 
These are all things that are 

2327
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:11,120
valid and supported and 
mentioned in this book. 

2328
02:04:11,120 --> 02:04:13,120
Children of Ashnell. 
Other things that come up, 

2329
02:04:13,120 --> 02:04:17,640
graves, ships, day-to-day life, 
pushing back on far right 

2330
02:04:17,640 --> 02:04:20,040
influence on Viking stuff like 
the Nazis. 

2331
02:04:20,040 --> 02:04:23,360
They've tried to repurpose a lot
of the stuff and that's just a 

2332
02:04:23,360 --> 02:04:25,840
shame. 
But we can't let them take that,

2333
02:04:25,840 --> 02:04:28,360
right? 
The Norse view on gender is 

2334
02:04:28,360 --> 02:04:31,120
really interesting. 
Like women could divorce a man 

2335
02:04:31,120 --> 02:04:34,040
for just being bad in bed. 
Doesn't mean they had a lot of 

2336
02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:37,600
rights in other ways, but they 
did have more rights than you 

2337
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:40,520
might guess. 
In some ways they had more 

2338
02:04:40,520 --> 02:04:43,880
freedoms than a lot of European 
women, Southern European women 

2339
02:04:43,880 --> 02:04:44,840
did. 
And it's just interesting. 

2340
02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:47,720
And of course, all these wonders
of modern science that I've 

2341
02:04:47,880 --> 02:04:50,480
talked about a few of, there's a
lot more of them in the actual 

2342
02:04:50,480 --> 02:04:52,040
book. 
These, the things they can 

2343
02:04:52,040 --> 02:04:55,280
reveal and open doors in the 
past are just mind blowing. 

2344
02:04:55,880 --> 02:04:59,880
The author is Neil Price, he's a
professional archaeologist of 30

2345
02:04:59,880 --> 02:05:02,560
plus years. 
Some of the famous digs and 

2346
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:05,400
finds described in the book were
made by him. 

2347
02:05:05,400 --> 02:05:07,360
I'm pointing at myself were made
by him. 

2348
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:11,720
And the narrator is Samuel Ruken
and he's awesome. 

2349
02:05:11,720 --> 02:05:15,240
Great voice, great delivery, one
of the better audio book readers

2350
02:05:15,240 --> 02:05:18,000
I've I've heard in a while. 
It's a must if you've enjoyed 

2351
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:22,040
this episode because I've 
probably only used about 10% of 

2352
02:05:22,040 --> 02:05:25,400
it to source for Ragnarok stuff.
It's it's, it's much wider 

2353
02:05:25,400 --> 02:05:27,400
discussions than that. 
Obviously that book isn't just 

2354
02:05:27,400 --> 02:05:30,320
about the end of the Norse 
world, but that's a big part of 

2355
02:05:30,320 --> 02:05:32,160
it. 
If you want to get the book on 

2356
02:05:32,200 --> 02:05:35,880
either Audible or the hard copy,
go to historyofwesteros.com. 

2357
02:05:36,240 --> 02:05:39,160
Shop through our Amazon links. 
Audible is owned by Amazon, so 

2358
02:05:39,160 --> 02:05:42,000
that's the same thing if you're 
shopping through Audible, and we

2359
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:45,640
get a little kickback for that 
so you can enjoy the book and we

2360
02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:46,920
can get a little hit. 
Everybody wins. 

2361
02:05:47,480 --> 02:05:49,160
Hope you do. 
So really fun. 

2362
02:05:50,560 --> 02:05:52,760
All right, the last little bit 
here, we've got something on the

2363
02:05:52,760 --> 02:05:55,160
Old God to the north and a 
little bit on the Old God to the

2364
02:05:55,160 --> 02:05:57,600
South. 
So a quick overview of some less

2365
02:05:57,600 --> 02:06:00,400
related but still related 
parallels and a few notable 

2366
02:06:00,400 --> 02:06:02,760
major differences. 
Again, this serves as kind of a 

2367
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:07,520
dessert to the main course that 
we just had, but also it helps 

2368
02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:11,080
us look forward to what some of 
the remaining subtopics are that

2369
02:06:11,080 --> 02:06:14,680
we didn't get fully into. 
Again, the the portrayal of 

2370
02:06:14,680 --> 02:06:17,160
deities in George's world is 
imperceptible. 

2371
02:06:17,480 --> 02:06:21,640
Whereas the North pantheon, 
they're among the most humanized

2372
02:06:21,640 --> 02:06:23,360
of gods. 
Like they, they behave like 

2373
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:25,760
people. 
They are the most resembling of 

2374
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:28,080
humans. 
They do crazy, impossible 

2375
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:31,960
supernatural things. 
But they, you know, they have 

2376
02:06:31,960 --> 02:06:35,840
lust and love and live in 
dwellings that are like human 

2377
02:06:35,840 --> 02:06:37,520
dwellings. 
You know, they have stables and 

2378
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:41,520
halls and yeah, there it's a lot
of like, it's not at all like 

2379
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:43,480
heaven. 
You know, it's like the, the, 

2380
02:06:43,720 --> 02:06:47,440
the images of Christian heaven, 
very celestial, very different. 

2381
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:50,600
It's not at all like earth. 
It's, it's very positive, but it

2382
02:06:50,600 --> 02:06:52,880
isn't it, it isn't earth like, 
right. 

2383
02:06:52,880 --> 02:06:56,120
This is this the Norse Panthe is
more grounded because probably 

2384
02:06:56,120 --> 02:07:00,520
because it emerged from such 
rough circumstances and and 

2385
02:07:00,520 --> 02:07:03,720
things like that cultural memory
preserves things like the 

2386
02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:06,120
stallion who mounts the world, 
the Princess that was promised 

2387
02:07:06,120 --> 02:07:09,120
and Azora High long enough for 
it to be written down. 

2388
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:12,160
Azora High was predates the 
current written sources we have.

2389
02:07:12,160 --> 02:07:14,960
They just held on to that 
knowledge until it could be 

2390
02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:17,520
written down again. 
And the stallion who mounts the 

2391
02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:19,640
world. 
I mean, I don't know that that 

2392
02:07:19,640 --> 02:07:22,120
prophecy existed the first time 
around because the Dithraki are 

2393
02:07:22,120 --> 02:07:24,560
a relatively new people, but 
something like it might have 

2394
02:07:24,560 --> 02:07:26,840
happened. 
You know, maybe the the existing

2395
02:07:26,840 --> 02:07:29,200
horse people of that time. 
The the joke was not. 

2396
02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:31,200
Maybe they had a prophecy along 
those lines. 

2397
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:34,880
But also sticking with the Azora
High story for a minute, what do

2398
02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:36,960
you get here? 
A guy repeatedly tries to forge 

2399
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:39,560
the Red Sword of Heroes. 30 
days, tempered in water, it 

2400
02:07:39,560 --> 02:07:41,760
shatters. 
Tries again. 50 days Lion's 

2401
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:45,800
heart, same result. 100 days, 
his wife Nisa, Nisa's heart. 

2402
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:49,560
It works. 
That's not just comparable to 

2403
02:07:49,560 --> 02:07:52,440
North mythology, but a lot of 
other mythologies in terms of 

2404
02:07:52,440 --> 02:07:56,160
just how fantastical it is. 
It's not that George doesn't use

2405
02:07:56,160 --> 02:08:00,120
high magic, it's that he doesn't
use it a lot in the main series.

2406
02:08:00,120 --> 02:08:02,480
It's part of the backdrop, it's 
part of the setting. 

2407
02:08:03,080 --> 02:08:06,760
That's where it's common right 
in the in the histories, in the 

2408
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:09,520
origins, the Grey King versus 
not a. 

2409
02:08:09,520 --> 02:08:12,920
That could be a Norse story. 
That could be, I mean it's a sea

2410
02:08:12,920 --> 02:08:16,480
dragon being fought by a semi 
supernatural being. 

2411
02:08:16,480 --> 02:08:20,640
That could be Thor versus Yorman
Gander, and Yorman Gander has a 

2412
02:08:20,640 --> 02:08:23,760
little bit of overlap with the 
storm God because his shaking of

2413
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:25,800
his tail creates tidal waves and
all that. 

2414
02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:29,560
So yeah, that fits pretty well. 
Since the North saw their gods 

2415
02:08:29,560 --> 02:08:34,240
as personifications of nature, 
which is fairly common for the 

2416
02:08:34,240 --> 02:08:37,680
creation or personification of 
deities and across the world, we

2417
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:40,000
can use similar logic to 
deconstruct the old gods of 

2418
02:08:40,000 --> 02:08:42,160
Westeros. 
Now again, there's no tangible 

2419
02:08:42,160 --> 02:08:45,960
individual deities. 
There's no wind God, storm God. 

2420
02:08:45,960 --> 02:08:49,160
I mean the Aaron born have one, 
but the the Northerners don't. 

2421
02:08:49,160 --> 02:08:51,480
There's no harvest God, but 
there are. 

2422
02:08:51,600 --> 02:08:54,200
Those are all things associated 
with the children in the Green 

2423
02:08:54,200 --> 02:08:56,880
Seer. 
Those are still their sphere in 

2424
02:08:56,880 --> 02:09:01,600
some ways, and they have these 
grand magics that sound like 

2425
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:04,280
they could fit in Norse Smith or
something else, like the Hammer 

2426
02:09:04,280 --> 02:09:06,760
of the Waters, the breaking of 
the arm of Dorn. 

2427
02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:11,400
Big global changes, right? 
Hardhome again comes up. 

2428
02:09:11,400 --> 02:09:13,840
It's a lesser but far more 
recent example. 

2429
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:16,720
And magic and science can be 
combined, right? 

2430
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:18,920
George doesn't have to just say,
here comes the grand enormous 

2431
02:09:18,920 --> 02:09:21,400
darkness thanks to magic. 
Flip a finger. 

2432
02:09:21,400 --> 02:09:25,200
No, he can describe the 
mechanism and make it partly 

2433
02:09:25,200 --> 02:09:28,600
mundane. 
Like magic pushes small changes 

2434
02:09:28,920 --> 02:09:33,280
in the tectonic plates or in the
seas that lead to big things, 

2435
02:09:33,360 --> 02:09:37,960
you know, conceptually small, 
that start a like an avalanche. 

2436
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:40,120
You know, like, the magic just 
starts that ball rolling and 

2437
02:09:40,120 --> 02:09:43,280
then nature takes over once you 
kicked it off, that kind of 

2438
02:09:43,280 --> 02:09:45,640
thing. 
And of course, plague, once 

2439
02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:48,080
again, we got to bring that one 
up because that's definitely 

2440
02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:50,040
going to happen in Westeros, if 
you ask me. 

2441
02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:55,360
And Christina adds an 
interesting way to look at ghost

2442
02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:59,040
grass, which you could consider 
a plague of the land, which may 

2443
02:09:59,040 --> 02:10:01,280
have originated in the first 
Long Night because, yeah, 

2444
02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:03,560
whatever happened over there in 
the shadow, we've talked about 

2445
02:10:03,560 --> 02:10:07,800
that in separate episodes, 
messed a lot of the earth up in 

2446
02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:09,680
that region. 
And ghost grass is part of that.

2447
02:10:09,680 --> 02:10:13,320
It turns fertile land unfertile 
and is slowly creeping like 

2448
02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:15,720
kudzu or bamboo over the rest of
the world. 

2449
02:10:16,320 --> 02:10:20,040
In terms of a parallel to 
Ajudrasil, Ajudrasil, Ajudrasil.

2450
02:10:20,040 --> 02:10:23,800
So hard to say during Ragnarok. 
Recall the human pair that lived

2451
02:10:24,080 --> 02:10:25,720
may have done so by hiding in 
the great tree. 

2452
02:10:25,720 --> 02:10:29,160
Remember there's another version
that they were like emerge from 

2453
02:10:29,160 --> 02:10:32,040
it as the tree like they were 
ash and Elm or something. 

2454
02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:35,600
But we that's what long been a 
theory about the children and 

2455
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:37,760
their deep caves. 
Remember how Bran describes how 

2456
02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:41,360
it's cold down there, but not 
cold like outside? 

2457
02:10:41,360 --> 02:10:44,440
The temperature is fixed far 
down under the earth like that. 

2458
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:46,480
It's just there's no wind and 
anything. 

2459
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:47,840
It just doesn't reach them down 
there. 

2460
02:10:48,400 --> 02:10:51,760
That has led to theories that 
that's what the children's plan 

2461
02:10:51,760 --> 02:10:54,240
was. 
Blast the outside world with 

2462
02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:58,080
cold, let that linger and then 
re emerge when everything is 

2463
02:10:58,080 --> 02:11:00,320
dead and you'll they'll be back 
to having the earth to 

2464
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:02,480
themselves. 
Westeros will be theirs again. 

2465
02:11:02,480 --> 02:11:06,520
It'd be the time of when the the
Children didn't have the First 

2466
02:11:06,520 --> 02:11:08,880
Men on Westeros, it was only 
them and the giants. 

2467
02:11:09,600 --> 02:11:11,080
That's kind of Ragnarok Y, isn't
it? 

2468
02:11:11,080 --> 02:11:12,960
You know, like everybody. 
People are hiding during the 

2469
02:11:12,960 --> 02:11:14,960
calamity. 
It lasts a long time, and then 

2470
02:11:14,960 --> 02:11:17,640
you emerge when it's over. 
Yeah, really similar. 

2471
02:11:18,800 --> 02:11:21,640
Another kind of difference here 
that maybe we'll get into deeper

2472
02:11:21,640 --> 02:11:25,320
in another time is the the idea 
that both Westerosi, North and 

2473
02:11:25,320 --> 02:11:27,640
South, care about bloodlines. 
Whether you're a worshiper of 

2474
02:11:27,640 --> 02:11:30,400
the Old Gods or whether you're 
worshiper of the Andols or 

2475
02:11:30,720 --> 02:11:32,160
descendant of the Andols 
worshiper the Seven. 

2476
02:11:32,160 --> 02:11:34,200
I meant to say. 
Not that the Norse don't care 

2477
02:11:34,200 --> 02:11:35,640
about that. 
They just cared less about it. 

2478
02:11:35,640 --> 02:11:37,440
They don't care about bastardy 
hardly at all. 

2479
02:11:37,920 --> 02:11:41,480
Mother like mothers having 
children with mother multiple 

2480
02:11:41,480 --> 02:11:46,000
men, not that big a deal. 
Not widely accepted, but it 

2481
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:49,240
isn't some horrible thing like 
it is in Westeros. 

2482
02:11:50,040 --> 02:11:53,600
There's less power in tracing 
your descent from gods and 

2483
02:11:53,600 --> 02:11:55,080
kings. 
And again we we talked about the

2484
02:11:55,680 --> 02:11:59,560
the lack of a noble class. 
There isn't a noble class so 

2485
02:11:59,560 --> 02:12:01,760
much in Scandinavia in the 
Viking Age, right? 

2486
02:12:01,760 --> 02:12:05,080
There weren't like Dukes and 
barons and in the middle there's

2487
02:12:05,080 --> 02:12:07,520
kings, but not even early there 
weren't many kings. 

2488
02:12:07,560 --> 02:12:09,720
Like later in the Viking age 
there started to be kings of 

2489
02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:11,600
larger scale. 
Things like king the first king 

2490
02:12:11,600 --> 02:12:14,360
of Norway came along later. 
But early in the Viking age the 

2491
02:12:14,360 --> 02:12:16,760
kings were just local, they were
petty kings, the equivalent of 

2492
02:12:16,760 --> 02:12:19,520
that. 
For example, Ragnar Lothbrok, 

2493
02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:23,720
famous Viking hero, legendary, 
partly real, whatever we don't 

2494
02:12:23,720 --> 02:12:30,040
know but a lots of people that 
claim to be his sons that are 

2495
02:12:30,040 --> 02:12:33,800
historical. 
Ivar the Boneless, Uba, a 

2496
02:12:33,800 --> 02:12:37,840
cigarette snake in the eye, a 
Vitzerk or Hafdan Bjorn 

2497
02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:40,080
Ironside. 
These were historical figures. 

2498
02:12:40,480 --> 02:12:43,000
They all claimed to be 
descendants of Ragnar Lothbrook,

2499
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:45,720
but they there's no house 
Lothbrook, there's no House of 

2500
02:12:45,720 --> 02:12:47,440
Lothbrok. 
They're not all connected in 

2501
02:12:47,440 --> 02:12:50,000
that way. 
They're just like, hey, I'm 

2502
02:12:50,000 --> 02:12:52,720
cool, 'cause I'm connected to 
him, but they aren't connected 

2503
02:12:52,720 --> 02:12:54,240
to the other people connected to
him. 

2504
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:56,840
It's not a family thing like 
that. 

2505
02:12:56,840 --> 02:12:58,520
They're not like we're all 
Lothbrooks. 

2506
02:12:58,520 --> 02:13:01,640
We stick together. 
We worry about the, you know, we

2507
02:13:01,640 --> 02:13:04,080
have a sigil, we have certain 
things associated with our 

2508
02:13:04,080 --> 02:13:05,760
house. 
We have certainly don't have a 

2509
02:13:05,760 --> 02:13:07,400
motto. 
Yeah, none of that. 

2510
02:13:08,040 --> 02:13:11,240
Viking Age Scandinavia didn't 
have that so much because it 

2511
02:13:11,240 --> 02:13:15,520
wasn't you couldn't support it. 
It didn't work the land, the 

2512
02:13:15,520 --> 02:13:17,840
geography didn't support that 
kind of system. 

2513
02:13:17,840 --> 02:13:20,400
You can't have people that I'm 
the ruler. 

2514
02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:22,080
I got all these serfs working 
the land. 

2515
02:13:22,440 --> 02:13:24,320
There's just not enough land to 
work. 

2516
02:13:25,120 --> 02:13:28,800
You'll have there definitely had
slaves and they had they called 

2517
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:31,680
them thralls, which is and their
rules were a little different. 

2518
02:13:31,680 --> 02:13:33,200
It is like the Iron born version
of thrall. 

2519
02:13:33,200 --> 02:13:35,440
There's another sub topic we can
get into some other time. 

2520
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:39,480
But yeah, they didn't. 
They just you couldn't have a 

2521
02:13:39,480 --> 02:13:44,040
vast army of of workers 'cause 
there wasn't enough to do. 

2522
02:13:44,040 --> 02:13:48,280
What would you have them doing? 
You have to feed them too. 

2523
02:13:48,280 --> 02:13:50,360
The workers that are doing your 
work have to be fed. 

2524
02:13:50,360 --> 02:13:53,400
There's just not enough food to 
have a huge workforce, to have a

2525
02:13:53,400 --> 02:13:56,280
huge slave population. 
There's definitely some, but not

2526
02:13:56,280 --> 02:13:57,480
a lot. 
And that's why there's no 

2527
02:13:57,480 --> 02:13:59,640
barons, Dukes. 
There wasn't room for it. 

2528
02:13:59,640 --> 02:14:01,600
There was that. 
It didn't, couldn't support that

2529
02:14:01,600 --> 02:14:05,560
level of hierarchy. 
So there's a big differences in 

2530
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:10,920
culture for that reason. 
Old Gods of the South, of 

2531
02:14:10,920 --> 02:14:13,640
course, in ancient times there 
were hard trees everywhere down 

2532
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:16,920
there and up there all over. 
And there still are on the Isle 

2533
02:14:16,920 --> 02:14:20,080
of Faces. 
Now the Seven don't have that, 

2534
02:14:20,800 --> 02:14:24,360
but the ancient gods and myths 
of the South who predated the 

2535
02:14:24,360 --> 02:14:27,760
seven, especially in the Reach, 
are more similar to the North 

2536
02:14:27,760 --> 02:14:31,200
Pantheon and a lot of other 
pantheons in that there are 

2537
02:14:31,200 --> 02:14:33,520
distinct individuals. 
It's like, yeah, there's a brand

2538
02:14:33,520 --> 02:14:35,960
in the builder, but like, who 
else is there? 

2539
02:14:35,960 --> 02:14:37,680
Well, last hero. 
I mean, there's not a lot of 

2540
02:14:37,680 --> 02:14:39,160
names. 
I mean, last year doesn't even 

2541
02:14:39,160 --> 02:14:40,640
have a name, right? 
What's his, what was his name? 

2542
02:14:41,160 --> 02:14:44,400
Joe? 
You know, Johnny a hero? 

2543
02:14:44,400 --> 02:14:46,480
I mean, I would just it's just a
title, right? 

2544
02:14:47,080 --> 02:14:52,040
And again, they're less God like
'cause they're not like Heaven 

2545
02:14:52,040 --> 02:14:54,120
or Asgard or Olympus or 
something like that. 

2546
02:14:54,120 --> 02:14:58,080
These are, you know, Garth 
Greenhand existing in the Reach 

2547
02:14:58,160 --> 02:15:02,200
and his descendants had God like
traits, you know, Rowan, Golden,

2548
02:15:02,480 --> 02:15:03,880
Goldeneye, whatever. 
What is her name? 

2549
02:15:03,880 --> 02:15:05,240
Golden Tree. 
Yeah, Rowan, Golden Tree. 

2550
02:15:05,240 --> 02:15:09,400
And then the Harlan the Hunter 
and all this, you know, a couple

2551
02:15:09,400 --> 02:15:13,000
dozen of these characters, these
figures, these semi deities. 

2552
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:15,840
And then, you know, there's 
others elsewhere like the Grey 

2553
02:15:15,840 --> 02:15:19,160
King that we mentioned. 
And I feel like that, but the 

2554
02:15:19,160 --> 02:15:22,400
majority of them are associated 
with the South and the Reach. 

2555
02:15:22,960 --> 02:15:25,080
And that myself, it's kind of 
interesting. 

2556
02:15:25,080 --> 02:15:27,280
I don't have a huge conclusion 
here, but it's something to 

2557
02:15:27,280 --> 02:15:29,920
think about, something maybe to 
delve into later again. 

2558
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:32,960
And even Brandon the Builder is 
sometimes considered a 

2559
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:35,600
descendant of Garth. 
So yeah, it's like, it's like a 

2560
02:15:35,600 --> 02:15:39,520
lot of Westerosi First Men 
sprang from Garth Greenhand and 

2561
02:15:39,520 --> 02:15:42,200
these descendants. 
And maybe he was a leader who 

2562
02:15:42,200 --> 02:15:43,920
brought. 
Maybe Garth wasn't a magical 

2563
02:15:43,920 --> 02:15:45,840
being. 
Maybe he was a leader of men who

2564
02:15:45,840 --> 02:15:49,240
led people across the land 
bridge back in the day and he 

2565
02:15:49,240 --> 02:15:51,800
was deified. 
Like that story we were just 

2566
02:15:51,800 --> 02:15:54,160
telling about Odin about. 
Maybe Odin was a real war chief 

2567
02:15:54,160 --> 02:15:57,640
who led his people from the 
steps to Scandinavia and it was 

2568
02:15:57,640 --> 02:16:02,120
deified afterwards. 
Same idea, different territory, 

2569
02:16:02,440 --> 02:16:06,840
different place, different time,
different world, but similar 

2570
02:16:06,840 --> 02:16:10,320
idea. 
Last but not least, other 

2571
02:16:10,320 --> 02:16:12,800
Ragnarok's versus other long 
nights. 

2572
02:16:12,800 --> 02:16:15,600
Just some similar events that 
are related. 

2573
02:16:16,120 --> 02:16:19,280
Again, the Doom didn't create a 
Long night type scenario, but 

2574
02:16:19,280 --> 02:16:23,040
the Century of Blood followed 
100 years of societal reset. 

2575
02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:25,400
It's pretty bad. 
Let that sink in. 

2576
02:16:25,560 --> 02:16:30,560
It wasn't as bad as Ragnarok or 
the Long Night, but the Century 

2577
02:16:30,560 --> 02:16:32,520
of Blood was bad. 
Like that's a weird thing to 

2578
02:16:32,520 --> 02:16:33,480
say. 
The Century of Blood was really 

2579
02:16:33,480 --> 02:16:34,920
bad, but it wasn't as bad as 
those. 

2580
02:16:35,959 --> 02:16:38,959
Maybe there was a geological 
component outside of Valyria. 

2581
02:16:38,959 --> 02:16:42,000
It's something that not really 
told, but it's probably a truth.

2582
02:16:42,000 --> 02:16:44,559
Like tidal waves must have 
emanated from there. 

2583
02:16:44,680 --> 02:16:46,480
We know it wiped out the Isle of
Cedars. 

2584
02:16:46,680 --> 02:16:48,799
We just don't know about like 
what happened on the other side 

2585
02:16:48,799 --> 02:16:51,040
of Slavers Bay, what happened in
Sothorius? 

2586
02:16:51,040 --> 02:16:54,160
They, they probably got hit by 
some waves too, because, well, 

2587
02:16:54,240 --> 02:16:57,240
for example, there's a, you 
know, there's volcanoes or that 

2588
02:16:57,240 --> 02:17:00,760
happened in Tonga that happened 
just two years ago, three years 

2589
02:17:00,760 --> 02:17:05,520
ago that killed people in Chile,
but the tidal waves hit people 

2590
02:17:05,520 --> 02:17:08,879
in Chile crazy. 
And that reminds us of the flood

2591
02:17:08,879 --> 02:17:11,719
myths again and how there's so 
many flood myths in real in the 

2592
02:17:11,719 --> 02:17:13,320
real world. 
And just like there's a lot of 

2593
02:17:13,360 --> 02:17:16,559
Long Night tales in Essos and 
Westeros and probably beyond, 

2594
02:17:16,680 --> 02:17:19,160
probably as we haven't been to 
yet, they must have Long Night 

2595
02:17:19,160 --> 02:17:22,840
myths as well, because the Long 
Night had to impact them as 

2596
02:17:22,840 --> 02:17:24,799
well. 
As long as their peoples and 

2597
02:17:24,799 --> 02:17:28,400
their cultural memory goes back 
that far, they'll remember it in

2598
02:17:28,400 --> 02:17:30,719
some way or another. 
And they may have different 

2599
02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:32,959
stories they tell. 
Some of those stories might be 

2600
02:17:32,959 --> 02:17:38,200
kind of similar to what the 
Yitish or even the Westerosi 

2601
02:17:38,200 --> 02:17:43,160
say, or anyone in between. 
One example is the Zoroaster. 

2602
02:17:43,160 --> 02:17:47,200
Now this is important because 
Zoroaster, the Zoroastrian 

2603
02:17:47,200 --> 02:17:51,320
religion comes from the area of 
Persia and Iran where a lot of 

2604
02:17:51,320 --> 02:17:54,240
his Indo European origin might 
be rooted in. 

2605
02:17:54,320 --> 02:17:56,840
There's a story called the 
Bundashan, I don't know if I'm 

2606
02:17:56,840 --> 02:18:00,360
saying that right, which is the 
Zoroastrian creation story, and 

2607
02:18:00,360 --> 02:18:03,480
it has some similarities to the 
Norse creation story. 

2608
02:18:04,000 --> 02:18:07,400
There's a a story among those 
called Yima, which is where 

2609
02:18:07,400 --> 02:18:11,959
Ahura Mazda, the chief God of 
Zoroastrian pantheon, warns of 

2610
02:18:11,959 --> 02:18:14,360
the evil winters that are 
coming. 

2611
02:18:14,719 --> 02:18:17,639
He pulls a Noah long before 
Noah. 

2612
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:22,480
He found a protected valley that
was fertile and put two of every

2613
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:25,760
animal there, including humans. 
And then of course, yeah, I say 

2614
02:18:25,879 --> 02:18:28,320
long before Noah because this 
was long before Noah. 

2615
02:18:28,320 --> 02:18:31,280
This is written down way before 
the Bible and could have relate 

2616
02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:32,520
to that. 
That could have been a flood 

2617
02:18:32,520 --> 02:18:34,920
myth. 
Some scholars think that it was 

2618
02:18:34,920 --> 02:18:38,559
changed from an evil winter to a
flood. 

2619
02:18:39,320 --> 02:18:40,719
Yeah. 
There's something called the 

2620
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:44,879
fravashi in Zoroastrian worship 
or beliefs. 

2621
02:18:44,879 --> 02:18:47,559
That's that are their spirits, 
their human spirits. 

2622
02:18:48,200 --> 02:18:53,000
And one of their jobs, one of 
their duties, is to protect the 

2623
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:57,879
sun and the moon, which are 
threatened and destroyed during 

2624
02:18:57,879 --> 02:18:59,959
Ragnarok. 
So you have the same concept of 

2625
02:18:59,959 --> 02:19:01,440
making sure the sun and the moon
don't go away. 

2626
02:19:01,440 --> 02:19:03,120
We can't have that darkness 
again, can we? 

2627
02:19:03,879 --> 02:19:08,480
And if we're going back to 
Tolkien one last time, his ages 

2628
02:19:08,480 --> 02:19:10,840
are marked by that as well. 
Lord of the Rings takes place 

2629
02:19:11,600 --> 02:19:13,600
during the Third Age. 
The end of Lord of the Rings 

2630
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:15,000
marks the beginning of the 
Fourth Age. 

2631
02:19:15,000 --> 02:19:18,240
But some of the earlier ages had
massive changes. 

2632
02:19:18,639 --> 02:19:23,559
Illu Eru Illuvitar, who is the 
the chief God above all the 

2633
02:19:23,600 --> 02:19:25,000
others. 
He's the only one in in 

2634
02:19:25,000 --> 02:19:26,480
Tolkien's world who can create 
life. 

2635
02:19:26,799 --> 02:19:29,360
Morgoth was jealous of that. 
Sorry, Morgoth. 

2636
02:19:29,639 --> 02:19:34,440
He could he during at least one 
or two of the ages, he reshaped 

2637
02:19:34,440 --> 02:19:37,440
the continents entirely. 
Like just not move that or he 

2638
02:19:37,440 --> 02:19:39,559
move this over here. 
Just the kind of stuff that 

2639
02:19:40,320 --> 02:19:42,840
can't happen that quickly. 
Like it would have to take 

2640
02:19:42,840 --> 02:19:44,559
continental drift of millions of
years. 

2641
02:19:44,559 --> 02:19:46,959
But when you have a all powerful
deed, he just move things 

2642
02:19:46,959 --> 02:19:51,160
around. 
So that's the highest magic 

2643
02:19:51,160 --> 02:19:53,640
version of that, I guess, of 
that concept. 

2644
02:19:53,640 --> 02:19:57,400
But there's everything in 
between slow change to the 

2645
02:19:57,400 --> 02:20:00,840
dramatic powerful deity and 
everything in between. 

2646
02:20:01,920 --> 02:20:04,920
We hope you've enjoyed this deep
dive into real life myths and a 

2647
02:20:04,920 --> 02:20:06,920
song of Ice and fire. 
This type of episode is a 

2648
02:20:06,920 --> 02:20:10,080
favorite of mine because I 
learned more doing these. 

2649
02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:13,200
You know, obviously I know a lot
about A song of Ice and fire. 

2650
02:20:13,240 --> 02:20:14,280
I've been doing this a long 
time. 

2651
02:20:14,640 --> 02:20:17,560
My challenge there is how to 
present it, how to choose topics

2652
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:18,600
that are interesting for you 
all. 

2653
02:20:18,920 --> 02:20:22,720
But I, I'm not as worried or 
working on how to grasp it. 

2654
02:20:22,720 --> 02:20:25,280
I you know, I've been working on
that such a long time this. 

2655
02:20:26,040 --> 02:20:27,680
A lot of this is completely new 
to me. 

2656
02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:29,680
I'm taking it on. 
I'm like trying to parse it. 

2657
02:20:29,680 --> 02:20:31,520
Think about it. 
I'm probably in a week or two 

2658
02:20:31,520 --> 02:20:33,760
going to be like, I should have 
said this and then I'll have 

2659
02:20:34,320 --> 02:20:36,680
things I come up with that I 
should have put in this episode.

2660
02:20:36,920 --> 02:20:40,640
But hey, that's why we're going 
to have another episode of this 

2661
02:20:40,640 --> 02:20:42,680
type, maybe a few over the years
to come. 

2662
02:20:42,680 --> 02:20:45,360
I'm not saying it'll be soon, 
but it will happen. 

2663
02:20:45,720 --> 02:20:48,680
I mean, I don't even have 10% as
much expertise in North 

2664
02:20:48,680 --> 02:20:50,480
mythology as I do in A Song of 
Ice and Fire. 

2665
02:20:51,040 --> 02:20:53,320
But maybe after this episode, 
maybe I can bump that up a 

2666
02:20:53,320 --> 02:20:54,680
little. 
Maybe I went into this one with 

2667
02:20:54,680 --> 02:20:56,560
10%. 
Now I'm at 15 or 20. 

2668
02:20:57,000 --> 02:20:59,880
Anyway, the point is, I like to 
learn. 

2669
02:20:59,880 --> 02:21:02,560
I like to learn about this kind 
of stuff, in particular history,

2670
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:05,720
myths and the connection between
the two and science, how that 

2671
02:21:05,720 --> 02:21:07,480
all fits in. 
And this episode had all of 

2672
02:21:07,480 --> 02:21:09,400
those. 
So thank you all for choosing 

2673
02:21:09,400 --> 02:21:11,160
this one because I had so much 
fun with it. 

2674
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:15,080
And as with other historical 
topics, I encourage you to leave

2675
02:21:15,080 --> 02:21:17,920
comments or e-mail your thoughts
to us for the same reason, 

2676
02:21:18,480 --> 02:21:20,560
because it's newer to me, 
because I'm not as good at, I'm 

2677
02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:23,640
no expert. 
There's things that you all can 

2678
02:21:23,640 --> 02:21:25,880
say, hey, Azish, you missed this
or maybe you didn't consider 

2679
02:21:25,880 --> 02:21:27,240
this. 
And they're just things that I 

2680
02:21:27,360 --> 02:21:31,000
that aren't mistakes or misses, 
just things that I couldn't 

2681
02:21:31,000 --> 02:21:32,720
possibly be aware of, things 
that you might know. 

2682
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:35,000
So share that. 
That's how we learn from each 

2683
02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:37,960
other. 
And again, I assume one of the 

2684
02:21:37,960 --> 02:21:41,560
reasons you're here is you enjoy
the material, but you probably 

2685
02:21:41,560 --> 02:21:44,000
like learning too, especially 
about things like this. 

2686
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:46,800
So we'll, we'll come back to it,
of course. 

2687
02:21:46,800 --> 02:21:49,880
That's really interesting. 
But just a quick answer here, a 

2688
02:21:49,880 --> 02:21:54,000
quick piece of trivia before our
actual trivia answer is that 

2689
02:21:54,000 --> 02:21:59,080
Russia just now, like within the
last few days, had a volcano, an

2690
02:21:59,080 --> 02:22:01,440
ash plume of four miles high, 
almost. 

2691
02:22:02,000 --> 02:22:06,480
Krashenenikov, which last 
erupted 600 years ago, just 

2692
02:22:06,480 --> 02:22:08,680
happened. 
So weird coincidence there, huh?

2693
02:22:09,240 --> 02:22:13,960
It's our fault we kicked it off.
Yeah, so trivia question. 

2694
02:22:13,960 --> 02:22:16,760
Trivia answer. 
Who in Westeros history is 

2695
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:20,440
loosely based on famous Viking 
king Herald Hardrada, King 

2696
02:22:20,440 --> 02:22:24,040
Harwin Hard, hand of the horror 
dynasty, the the Conqueror of 

2697
02:22:24,040 --> 02:22:27,880
the Riverlands. 
It was his grandson that became 

2698
02:22:27,880 --> 02:22:31,960
Heron the Black. 
Episodes that relate to this one

2699
02:22:31,960 --> 02:22:35,120
that couldn't keep you immersed.
If you want to do that, highly 

2700
02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:37,200
encourage it. 
Episodes like the Three Eyed 

2701
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:40,640
Blood Raven or Hardhome or our 
Weywood tours, a pair of 

2702
02:22:40,640 --> 02:22:43,000
episodes there. 
The idea that people come from 

2703
02:22:43,000 --> 02:22:48,160
trees in this one that is 
related to our idea that 

2704
02:22:48,160 --> 02:22:51,640
weirwoods preserve the look. 
The Starks have looked the same.

2705
02:22:51,640 --> 02:22:53,240
They have a look, there's a 
Stark look that's been around 

2706
02:22:53,240 --> 02:22:55,640
for so long. 
Maybe that maybe it's the 

2707
02:22:55,680 --> 02:22:59,160
weirwoods that keep that imprint
because it's just not all houses

2708
02:22:59,160 --> 02:23:02,200
have this, only some of them do.
And it seems to be correlated to

2709
02:23:02,200 --> 02:23:05,040
houses that have a heart tree. 
So maybe there's a connection 

2710
02:23:05,040 --> 02:23:07,960
there with the George. 
Got a little inspiration from 

2711
02:23:08,440 --> 02:23:11,680
people coming from trees in the 
Norse mythology. 

2712
02:23:12,240 --> 02:23:14,080
The doom of Valyria. 
Of course, that episode is very 

2713
02:23:14,080 --> 02:23:15,640
relevant here. 
So is our Century of Blood 

2714
02:23:15,640 --> 02:23:17,280
episodes. 
So is our episode on the Pact. 

2715
02:23:17,520 --> 02:23:20,480
So is our episode on ancient 
Dorn, especially as it pertains 

2716
02:23:20,480 --> 02:23:22,240
to the land bridge and the 
migrations over it. 

2717
02:23:22,400 --> 02:23:25,720
Our Valeri Ridis brand chapters 
are big. 

2718
02:23:25,760 --> 02:23:29,560
You can go to Patreon and get 
just the Valeridis brand 

2719
02:23:29,560 --> 02:23:32,240
chapters, as well as all the 
other individual characters. 

2720
02:23:32,240 --> 02:23:35,040
Rather than listening to 
Valeridis in the order of the 

2721
02:23:35,040 --> 02:23:36,760
chapters, you can go character 
by character. 

2722
02:23:37,400 --> 02:23:39,840
And of course, I mentioned The 
Rage of Heroes, the Greek 

2723
02:23:39,840 --> 02:23:42,720
mythology related episode that 
we did a few years ago. 

2724
02:23:43,360 --> 02:23:46,880
That's a long list. 
I hope you enjoy those or have 

2725
02:23:46,880 --> 02:23:48,760
already enjoyed those. 
Maybe you want to check them out

2726
02:23:48,760 --> 02:23:51,440
again. 
And we'll keep them coming. 

2727
02:23:51,440 --> 02:23:53,400
We got lots more to come this 
year. 

2728
02:23:53,760 --> 02:23:56,160
We don't stop, can't stop, won't
stop. 

2729
02:23:56,160 --> 02:23:58,360
More episodes to come. 
Thanks. 

2730
02:23:58,360 --> 02:24:00,440
Actually, can I say yeah, if 
you're. 

2731
02:24:00,960 --> 02:24:04,280
In the Seattle area, we will be 
there at Seattle World Con 

2732
02:24:04,280 --> 02:24:07,000
August 12th to 17th. 
We haven't talked about it a 

2733
02:24:07,000 --> 02:24:09,280
whole lot, but we will be doing 
press. 

2734
02:24:09,280 --> 02:24:12,480
We got press passes and we'll be
attending and seeing BWB. 

2735
02:24:12,480 --> 02:24:15,680
So, you know, if you're on the 
West Coast or in Seattle, hit us

2736
02:24:15,680 --> 02:24:17,480
up. 
Yeah, do that. 

2737
02:24:17,480 --> 02:24:20,160
And or if you're hearing this 
later, consider looking us up 

2738
02:24:20,160 --> 02:24:22,160
for World Con 2026 because 
that's going to be in LA. 

2739
02:24:22,200 --> 02:24:23,280
We'll probably be at that one 
too. 

2740
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:24,920
Yeah, for our. 
West Coast folks. 

2741
02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:25,960
Yeah, West Coast folks. 
Yeah. 

2742
02:24:25,960 --> 02:24:29,760
People in the Southeast, we, as 
always go to Dragon Con every 

2743
02:24:29,760 --> 02:24:33,440
year here in Atlanta, we will be
at the World of Ice and Fire 

2744
02:24:33,440 --> 02:24:36,960
shoot a Saturday of Labor Day 
weekend, so catch us there too 

2745
02:24:37,120 --> 02:24:39,000
and that's. 
That goes for pretty much every 

2746
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:42,880
year also, not just 2025. 
Yeah, y'all. 

2747
02:24:42,880 --> 02:24:45,680
Thanks again. 
Huge thanks to Christina Kay. 

2748
02:24:45,680 --> 02:24:47,920
Just a lot of information came 
from her. 

2749
02:24:47,920 --> 02:24:50,280
Clarifications, details, things 
I didn't know at all. 

2750
02:24:50,920 --> 02:24:54,680
Thanks to you all for hanging 
out today, and thanks to Joey 

2751
02:24:54,680 --> 02:24:58,000
Townsend for our intro music. 
Thanks to Michael Klarfeld for 

2752
02:24:58,000 --> 02:25:01,120
the video intro and the maps you
see behind us. 

2753
02:25:01,360 --> 02:25:06,520
Check him out at Clair docs.de. 
Link in the description and you 

2754
02:25:06,520 --> 02:25:09,880
know what to do. 
Until next time, Valerie Ritas.