1
00:00:48,290 --> 00:00:53,730
They came to die for the Dragon 
Queen, every last man of them. 

2
00:00:54,130 --> 00:00:56,650
But frankly, the first part was 
the important bit. 

3
00:00:56,850 --> 00:01:01,690
Whether it was for Rainiera, 
Lord Cregan Stark, their actual 

4
00:01:01,690 --> 00:01:07,050
commander, Lord Roderick Dustin,
the Winter Wolves wanted to die 

5
00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:10,280
in battle for the Dragon Queen 
was a bonus. 

6
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,400
As long as it was a good death, 
as long as it was a good fight, 

7
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,160
that's what mattered. 
A memorable fall, one that folk 

8
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,440
of all walks of society would 
speak of for generations. 

9
00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,280
That was the goal, and well, it 
seems they achieved it. 

10
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Folk on a battlefield want glory
and acclaim and regard and 

11
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,040
respect, but they also want to 
live, to survive, to talk about 

12
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,160
it afterwards, to enjoy the 
benefits of all those things. 

13
00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,760
But not these guys. 
Their goal was to be in death as

14
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they were in life. 
Wolves howling pack, not merely 

15
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,760
unafraid of death, but seeking 
it. 

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00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:55,760
They were hunting not foes, but 
a good death against foes. 

17
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,280
It's not quite the same, is it? 
They chose to die in battle 

18
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,200
rather than to winter or aging 
altogether. 

19
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,480
Very common ways to go when you 
live in the north. 

20
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,240
Those aren't ways to be 
memorialized in song though. 

21
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,080
Dying that way. 
But if you live a life filled 

22
00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,520
with bravery, that's the type of
death you want. 

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00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,440
A type of death worthy of the 
North. 

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00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,760
These are not Knights. 
These are wolves. 

25
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,520
These are the terror of the 
North. 

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These are men who have seen 
everything when it comes to 

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blood and battle and are ready 
for one last go. 

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Their battles, their history, 
their traditions, the cultural 

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touchstones that led to their 
existence and their end. 

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And of course, some real world 
parallels. 

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The Winter Wolves. 
All that and more on this 

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00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,520
episode of History of Westeros 
Podcast. 

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00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,480
Hello and welcome back 
everybody. 

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It's another Sunday at 3:00 
Eastern. 

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00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,560
That is when we go live with 
most episodes of History of 

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00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,400
Westeros Podcast. 
The exception is during TV 

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00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,080
season such as House of the 
Dragon Season 3 coming up here. 

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00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,040
Not too far this episode partly 
inspired by that, but we are 

39
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,360
making it before the show airs, 
so no TV show content here. 

40
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,560
Every video we do is on YouTube 
first, then it ends up on 

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00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,040
Spotify, and then every podcast 
platform. 

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00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,160
We'll be recording on Mondays 
during the season, but if it's 

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not during ATV season, Sundays 
at 3:00 Eastern, that's where we

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00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,720
are. 
And you can find us after the 

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00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,840
fact on any podcast platform. 
Wherever you find podcasts, you 

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00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,400
can probably find us, but if you
want to listen to ad free, join 

47
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,160
us on Patreon. 
If you have questions about this

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00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,680
episode or anything to do with 
History of Westeros podcast, hit

49
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,240
us up at 
westeroshistory@gmail.com or on 

50
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,200
any of our places that you can 
find us on social media, which 

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00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,800
is pretty much everywhere. 
Facebook, Blue Sky, you name it,

52
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,720
we're probably there. 
I'll name a few episodes at the 

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00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,120
end of this one that relate to 
this one in case you want to 

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00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,720
stay immersed. 
That's often the case. 

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00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,040
That's how I roll. 
Often when I'm listening to 

56
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,960
something do a deep dive in 
history or something, some 

57
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,880
fandom, I want to stick with 
that for a while. 

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00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,320
Let's start with a little trivia
question, shall we? 

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00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,360
What was the bloodiest land? 
Battle of the Dance of the 

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00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,920
Dragons answer at the end. 
A clue that you probably didn't 

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00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,160
need is that it does involve the
Winter Wolves. 

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00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,079
Yes indeed. 
Let's have our section headers 

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00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:24,040
for today. 
Here's our topics, our subtopics

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00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,680
as it were, set up. 
Origin story. 

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00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,680
Dark wings, Dark words. 
Wolves in the Riverlands. 

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00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,480
The fish feed. 
Dances with Wolves, Drunk on 

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00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,240
Blood and Battle, AKA How to be 
a Wolf without skin changing, 

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00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,680
The Battle of Tumbleton, The 
Last Charge, the two Betrayers 

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00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:48,160
and Aftermath, and then Outro. 
That's right, a reminder too 

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00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,960
before we get into the meat of 
the material. 

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00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,640
The wolf meat, as it were. 
The Hugo voting for 2026 World 

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00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,000
Con is open. 
If you're already AWSF Society 

73
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,600
member or World Con member or 
want to sign up now, do it. 

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00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,240
The Hugo packet contains a lot 
of stuff. 

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00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,280
It's so valuable. 
You get every book that's 

76
00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,920
nominated, every game code for 
games that are nominated. 

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00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,280
You get so much the the value 
alone is enormous just in terms 

78
00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,440
of cost benefit. 
But you can also vote for us 

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00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,760
best related work. 
Our Ragnarok versus the Long 

80
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,160
Night episode is up for that 
category. 

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00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,640
Best related work. 
And well, there's a little bit 

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00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,640
of overlap with this episode 
because that episode obviously 

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00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,600
covers a lot of Norse influence,
Viking Age influence on A Song 

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00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,560
of Ice and Fire parallels there,
which of course are found in a 

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00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,400
lot of fantasy, not just George 
RR Martin. 

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00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,360
It's one of the most popular 
miss cycles to borrow from. 

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There is some overlap here, so 
we will be able to touch on that

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a little bit. 
I recall, by the way, from when 

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Fire and Blood came out, 
obviously the Winter Wolves were

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00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,200
mentioned in World of Iceland 
Fire, but very little. 

91
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There's a lot more exploration 
of them in Fire and Blood. 

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00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,880
There's a lot more expansion of 
their role in the Dance of the 

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Dragons and their full story. 
I remember just one of the IT 

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00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,520
was a big reaction in 2018 when 
Fire and Blood came out. 

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A lot of the Facebook groups and
forums that I was in and still 

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00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:17,800
am in really reacted to the 
Winter Wolves and Roddy the 

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00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,560
Ruin. 
One of the first things that 

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00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,000
really stood out. 
I, I have very clear memories of

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that. 
It's very fun. 

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Even though the book was 
obviously very focused on 

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Targaryen stuff, it's really 
nice to have some cool Northern 

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stuff, and that's what we're 
doing today. 

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As events were setting up the 
Dance of the Dragons in the 

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South, the North was dealing 
with issues of their own, as 

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they often are. 
Sometimes these issues are not 

106
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,920
recorded in the annals of the 
South. 

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The Lord Craig and Stark hadn't 
been lured very long at this 

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point, but he did have to fight 
to reclaim his inheritance from 

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his region uncle who ruled when 
he was underage and didn't 

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really hand the reins over when 
the time came. 

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And now on the heels of that 
winter, the old standard thing 

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that the North has to deal with.
But this time it looked like it 

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00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,640
was going to be a really bad 
winter. 

114
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,680
And it did turn out to be a 
really bad winter. 

115
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So five years or so, in fact, it
turned out to be. 

116
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,480
And they had a sense it would be
that long because it was a 

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really long spring before that. 
And that's generally how these 

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00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:19,920
things work. 
It may have brought some 

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00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,680
superstitious fear as well. 
But the bottom line was the 

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00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,600
North couldn't move as quickly 
as they would have wanted to to 

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00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,160
send troops S with the exception
of our subjects today. 

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00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,760
But let's get into where these 
people came from. 

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00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,240
The Winter Wolves. 
This section called origin 

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story. 
You'll probably remember the 

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00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,520
line. 
There are old cell swords and 

126
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,640
bold cell swords, but no old 
bold cell swords. 

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00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,560
It's not that different for 
other warriors in a warlike 

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00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,040
world. 
But what happens when an old 

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00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:58,000
cell sword decides it's time to 
die, decides it's time to go out

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00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,080
in battle? 
That may not be how a cell sword

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00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,000
really behaves, but you get the 
point, because that's what these

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00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,760
winter wolves were about. 
And the name is simple, right? 

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00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,160
Winter wolves. 
It's not hard to understand why 

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they call themselves that. 
They are wolves. 

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00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,040
They're like a pack. 
They howl, they're from the 

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00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,680
north. 
It's the great symbol of how 

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00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,760
Stark, which is the rulers of 
the North and have been for 

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00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,360
thousands of years. 
The unquestioned top dog. 

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Top dog, Get it? 
The the wolf does have a certain

140
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,720
sort of supremacy in the animal 
Kingdom, especially in the 

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North. 
Even more so dire wolves, but I 

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00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,000
digress. 
The winter wolves embody that 

143
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,840
fierceness with the pack 
mentality. 

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00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,240
They go as a group, they work as
a group. 

145
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,559
They're individually quite 
fierce and dangerous but as a as

146
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,360
a group, well, it's even far 
more dangerous. 

147
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,080
They're scary before you even 
encounter them because of the 

148
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,000
sounds they make. 
And in this case, because we're 

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00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,400
talking about real people, these
people aren't afraid of dying. 

150
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,240
And that's already something 
Northern warriors kind of have a

151
00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,080
reputation of. 
But this is actually true in 

152
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,880
this case. 
That's a, that's a reputation of

153
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,600
being fearless versus no, these 
guys actually want to die. 

154
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,960
And I don't mean they want to 
kill themselves. 

155
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,680
No, I mean they have a specific 
means chosen and it's to die in 

156
00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:14,000
battle. 
And it's sincere. 

157
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,600
It's as sincere as you can get. 
And they had a unique purpose 

158
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,320
too. 
I mean, if you're making a 

159
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:25,480
suicidal charge, a semi suicidal
charge will say it's 

160
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,360
increasingly effective the more 
men you add to it. 

161
00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,760
Because just the sheer weight of
numbers really tells. 

162
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,480
And quantity can always matter. 
But when you have quantity and 

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00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,560
quality and the quality being 
these men have the quality of 

164
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,680
willing to throw their lives 
away to make a song or a story, 

165
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,560
then that's scary. 
That's scarier than wolves 

166
00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,400
howling. 
But they do that too. 

167
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,560
So this was a nickname given to 
this group of men. 

168
00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:56,720
But and they're a unique group 
because of their place in 

169
00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,280
history. 
But what makes them unique is 

170
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,560
the circumstances that allowed 
them to be what they were. 

171
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:07,480
Because normally old man in the 
North, well, there's kind of a 

172
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,920
standard tradition. 
There isn't usually some big 

173
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,480
civil war that encompasses the 
entire continent to participate 

174
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,240
in. 
That's not usually an option. 

175
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,160
Generations of Northerners, 
usually they just, well, they 

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00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,040
choose to go out hunting, right?
It's, it's like you stand up to 

177
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,000
a foe that you can't beat. 
Winter itself. 

178
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,080
Well, in this case, a human foe 
did emerge. 

179
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,320
Southerners, they love to fight 
Southerners. 

180
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,920
They're not other Northerners. 
It's a little easier thing to go

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00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,520
up against in their minds, 
right? 

182
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,320
No individuals dying in the snow
this time. 

183
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,680
The Old gods actually gave them 
a chance to die in battle, 

184
00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:50,400
truly, rather than the the 
poetic northern tradition of 

185
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,040
going out hunting. 
So winter drove the wolves 

186
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,560
South. 
It's kind of like they're a 

187
00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:59,320
flock headed South for the 
winter, but these don't intend 

188
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,080
to return. 
They did go South for winter, 

189
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,840
but they're not flying back 
north. 

190
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,600
And this belief system, sure. 
Warrior culture, that's all 

191
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,960
throughout Westeros, That part's
not without prior understanding.

192
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,560
You all kind of get that. 
But the North is unique in terms

193
00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,880
of how it faces winter and the 
inevitability of such things. 

194
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:27,240
And when your family maybe 
doesn't have to get by, have 

195
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,400
enough food to get by, you got 
to make tough decisions. 

196
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,680
Here's a conversation about this
very thought topic between none 

197
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,240
other than Alice Karstark and 
Jon Snow. 

198
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,200
This winter will be hard. 
Few of the old people will 

199
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,960
survive it, and many children 
will perish as well. 

200
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,040
It was a tale that any Northman 
knew well. 

201
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,160
My father's grandmother was a 
Flint of the mountains on his 

202
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:51,960
mother's side. 
John told her. 

203
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,080
The first Flints they call 
themselves. 

204
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,760
They say the other Flints are 
the blood of younger sons who 

205
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,040
had to leave the mountains to 
find food and land and wives. 

206
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,360
It has always been a harsh life 
up there. 

207
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,840
When the snows fall and food 
grows scarce, their young men 

208
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,080
must travel to the winter town 
or take service at 1 Castle or 

209
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,600
the other. 
The old men gather up what 

210
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,960
strength remains to them and 
announce that they are going 

211
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,960
hunting. 
Some are found come spring, more

212
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,960
are never seen again. 
It is much the same at carhold. 

213
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,000
The exception is, like I said, 
when there's a war, there's 

214
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,000
something actually to go out and
do. 

215
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,920
But in the North, when is there 
a war in the middle of winter? 

216
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,560
That's pretty rare, right? 
They, the North isn't stupid 

217
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,040
like that. 
They've been through a lot of 

218
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,640
winters. 
They know maybe we should save 

219
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,520
the fighting for when it's nicer
outside, you know, when we're 

220
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,360
not, we actually have the food 
for all this. 

221
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,600
It's just very foolish to go do 
that. 

222
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,280
And they've had, and it's 
foolish as human beings can be, 

223
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,440
especially when it comes to 
violence. 

224
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:53,960
They've had thousands of years 
to learn this. 

225
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,960
And it's some of it, for the 
most part, it's set. 

226
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,000
So some take the black, right? 
But that's less true of older 

227
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,240
men. 
Like if you're going to take the

228
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,840
black, you're probably done it 
by the time you've got to that 

229
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,520
age. 
There's obviously exceptions. 

230
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,240
You know, GR Mormont took the 
black as an as an older man, but

231
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,400
he's a little different. 
He's from the nobility, the high

232
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,040
nobility. 
It's not quite the same game, 

233
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,600
but still there are always 
exceptions. 

234
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,000
Now, the fiercer the winter, the
more likely this is to happen. 

235
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,560
The Flints are a good example. 
And George made this 

236
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:27,800
conversation well constructed 
because he shows that in the 

237
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,560
worst parts of the north, of the
most, the ones that are hit the 

238
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:34,760
hardest by winter, this 
phenomenon is most likely to 

239
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,880
occur, or it is the most. 
It happens most often in places 

240
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,800
like this, in the high places 
like the places where the flints

241
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,680
live, it's extremely bad. 
So you'd think the mountain 

242
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:48,000
clans, the hill tribes of the 
North, are those who deal with 

243
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,200
this the most, who most often 
face this grim reality of if I 

244
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:58,400
remove my mouth from my family's
list of things that need to be 

245
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,600
taken care of, then they may all
survive. 

246
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,640
If I'm in the mix, needing to 
eat food throughout this whole 

247
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,920
winter, which may last a year or
two, they're not all going to 

248
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,200
make it. 
So they take themselves out of 

249
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,880
the equation, leaving their 
share of years of food for 

250
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,760
somebody else. 
Now that tells us something, 

251
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,920
right? 
Because, well, the seasons 

252
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,640
haven't always been screwy, 
which means maybe the ancient, 

253
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,080
ancient First Men didn't have to
deal with this. 

254
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,520
Sure, they're nor their winners 
would have been bad, but they 

255
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,040
would have lasted three to four 
months. 

256
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,520
Who's committing suicide over a 
three to four month period of 

257
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,160
starvation? 
I mean, it might happen. 

258
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,120
It's probably has happened. 
It definitely has happened in 

259
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,480
the real world, but it's a way 
different thing than years of 

260
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,600
winter, right? 
Like you can usually can stir up

261
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,680
food for a few months. 
If not then the north would 

262
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,960
never have lasted as a Kingdom 
at all, let alone being able to 

263
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,840
survive years like this. 
So I think that this is a 

264
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,680
tradition that likely developed 
after the seasons became screw, 

265
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,560
which is of course still a very 
very long time ago. 

266
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:05,280
But it does imply that it's not 
as old as, say, perhaps the dawn

267
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,200
age, the pre, the time before 
the others came for the first 

268
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,640
time, right? 
Whatever caused the long night 

269
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,160
before that the seasons were 
normal, I suppose. 

270
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,280
So we're talking about houses 
like Nori and Wall the one and 

271
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,480
then Flint, of course. 
And I like how this conversation

272
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,400
also shows that some of these 
other lesser or newer Flint 

273
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,280
branches came because of this 
tradition, not because the older

274
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,320
men, but because the older men 
like it's too late for them to 

275
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,240
start families and found new 
dynasties. 

276
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,160
But the younger men that well 
that a few of them were 

277
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,880
extremely successful. 
We're able to start completely 

278
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,800
new dynasties that lasted with 
castles and everything. 

279
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,920
It's also a little strange to 
consider that people willingly 

280
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,360
go out to die in winter and 
leave their body there. 

281
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,240
Right? 
Isn't that giving bodies to the 

282
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,880
others? 
I I don't think the free folk 

283
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:54,600
would do this, for example. 
I don't think the free folk do 

284
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,200
this whole I'll go out hunting 
kind of thing. 

285
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:57,840
I think they probably handle it 
differently. 

286
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,600
They know better and that 
tradition has been more held 

287
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,880
that also it tells me this also 
connects to that whole point 

288
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,160
about the Others in the Long 
Night being when the seasons got

289
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,160
thrown off. 
Well if people weren't doing 

290
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,920
that 100 tradition before, it 
makes sense that they would have

291
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,120
started afterwards. 
Once a once the seasons get 

292
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,360
screwy, but maybe not until 
after the Others have been gone 

293
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,440
for a long time. 
Because if you're just like 

294
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,760
going out there to die in 
winter, well, you're giving a 

295
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,120
body to the Others. 
Like that doesn't necessarily 

296
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,280
fit right? 
We know you're supposed to be 

297
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,200
burning bodies to your Mormont 
to come back to him. 

298
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,280
Beginning of the Game of 
Thrones. 

299
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,120
They bring those bodies back, 
right? 

300
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,480
Jon Snow and Sam and they O Thor
and Jafer flowers, the ones that

301
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,160
rise at night. 
GR Mormons is how we should have

302
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,520
burned those bodies. 
We should have. 

303
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,400
We used to know. 
We should have remembered. 

304
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,480
Come on. 
The North should have 

305
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,040
remembered. 
But yeah, So these things, it's 

306
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,680
interesting to wonder how these 
traditions began and how they 

307
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,480
evolved and what pressures in 
different directions, whether 

308
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,760
the others, the superstitious 
fear there, or whether that was 

309
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,960
a lesser consideration to the 
just the very most fundamental 

310
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,880
starvation versus not 
starvation. 

311
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,520
You might not even be thinking 
about the other stuff. 

312
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,319
When it comes down to those very
basic things, which frankly 

313
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,200
we've seen in play when the 
Nights Watch was starving at 

314
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,079
Crasters, the evil in those evil
men really peaked. 

315
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,000
There's an ancient Northern song
called Wolves in the Hills, for 

316
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,280
example. 
It's song about men living in 

317
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,880
those higher places, wolves in 
the hills, right? 

318
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,200
This is a very common 
association that could think of 

319
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,280
them that way. 
I like that. 

320
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:32,920
These are the kind of men we're 
Speaking of. 

321
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,440
So the actual winter wolves 
here, this particular group of 

322
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,000
2000 men was led by Lord 
Roderick Dustin. 

323
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,600
We don't know much about him, 
but he was a grizzled veteran of

324
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,720
many battles probably in the 
60's. 

325
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:51,880
The kind of men that men who are
warriors like to follow a 

326
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,200
warriors kind of guy, you know, 
sort of man that men like to 

327
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,120
follow. 
Warriors like to follow someone 

328
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,160
they could trust, someone they 
know is definitely going to be 

329
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,120
fearless and nothing's going to 
rattle him, that kind of thing. 

330
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:08,720
It's interesting to try to think
about his history, but it's even

331
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,280
for us who try to use every 
little scrap of imagination and 

332
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,240
reading between the lines, it's,
it's difficult for me to come up

333
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,160
with anything for him because 
his he would have been born 

334
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,840
around the year 70. 
Let's say he's 60 years old. 70 

335
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,240
is 20 years roughly into 
Jeharis's reign. 

336
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,880
Jeharis's reign was pretty darn 
peaceful. 

337
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,720
Lots of things happened. 
There was scandals, there was 

338
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,840
conflict, but not much is said 
about the North during Jeharis's

339
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,760
reign. 
Obviously there's the Queen's 

340
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,120
crown and Alison going up there,
but that was before Roderick was

341
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,520
born and then afterwards. 
So there must have been battles,

342
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,000
probably between Northern 
houses, maybe against the 

343
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,800
Ironborn. 
I'm not sure that in Baratin you

344
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,200
do a lot of fighting against the
Free Folk, but I wouldn't be 

345
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,920
surprised if Frederick Justin 
travelled to go to to get into 

346
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,920
some fights. 
Maybe he fought against some 

347
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,160
Skagosi, who knows. 
There's no famous obvious 

348
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:58,520
battles he would have been in 
though. 

349
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,320
He might have gone overseas, 
really have no idea. 

350
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,720
But there were clearly some 
things because this guy's 

351
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,760
reputation preceded him. 
He probably had followers. 

352
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,560
He probably had guys that had 
been with him since they were 

353
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,360
all young, like when Lord 
Dustin, maybe before he was 

354
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,800
Lord, he was the heir to 
Burrowton or something like that

355
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,800
in his 20s. 
I'm just completely making this 

356
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,480
up. 
He would have had some sworn 

357
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,600
Shields. 
Some of those guys are still 

358
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,320
with him 40 years later or 30 
years later. 

359
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,720
They've been following him 
forever and he's ready to go. 

360
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,200
They're ready to go with him, 
right? 

361
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,920
It makes it. 
It's pretty fitting. 

362
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:33,600
They don't want to die the 
winter. 

363
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:34,520
They don't want to die the old 
age. 

364
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,560
Like really a huge civil war, 
something we can actually make 

365
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,440
our name in. 
Something that even the South 

366
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,400
will sing songs about us, which 
maybe they don't care about, but

367
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,000
it's nice they want the song 
sung about them here in the 

368
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,000
North. 
But if they're sung in the South

369
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,240
also, all the better, right? 
And we know these are not. 

370
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:52,800
This is not a complete mixed 
force of Northerners. 

371
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,720
It's easy to get mixed up with 
TV show events here. 

372
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,240
Jace flew to White Harbor first,
then Winterfell, and the 

373
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,520
Manderleys immediately got their
stuff together and sent ships to

374
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,880
King's Landing. 
So the White Harbor men were not

375
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,040
with the Winter Wolves. 
These aren't. 

376
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,480
This isn't a mixed force of 
including some Manderleys or 

377
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,600
even some of their vassal 
houses. 

378
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,600
No, those men went with the 
Manderleys. 

379
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,440
This is most likely men from 
around Barrowton. 

380
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,680
Rizwell's probably. 
Certainly Flint's. 

381
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:28,600
And men of the Barrow lands 
right the southern N, nearer to 

382
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,960
the Neck than the Wall. 
So men of the Wolves would for 

383
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:39,160
sure less likely to contain 
Glovers and umbers and men from 

384
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,400
car hold, but probably some. 
But these would have been men 

385
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,160
who already knew Lord Roderick 
or were already in Barrowton. 

386
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,400
Maybe they already took service 
with him. 

387
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,360
Because from all we understand, 
the Winter Wolves took off 

388
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:55,600
quickly. 
They rode soon after Jayce 

389
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,920
arrived in the North, you know, 
soon as far as these things go, 

390
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,680
we're talking about weeks, but 
not months or certainly not a 

391
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,920
year where Kregan eventually 
sent a much larger force. 

392
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,200
But these guys got going right 
away. 

393
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,840
So it's there's not enough time 
for people to have ridden down 

394
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:17,160
from Car Hold or from Last 
Hearth or even from places like 

395
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:22,280
Bear Island or Deepwood Mott. 
So I think these were guys who 

396
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,640
were just ready to go and they 
were whoever was there when, and

397
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,520
it was a substantial force of 
2000. 

398
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:32,000
And especially given what they 
were after, they would fall with

399
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,400
him or die and die in the 
attempt. 

400
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,960
That's, again, that's the whole 
point. 

401
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,400
This is it's kind of funny to 
say these things like that. 

402
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,320
Tony Sled sends the Super chat, 
says Flints are scarier than 

403
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,680
Bolton's, in my opinion. 
Yeah, they kind of are. 

404
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,880
I mean, on a battlefield, 
definitely, maybe in a locked 

405
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,760
room. 
I'm I'm more scared of a Bolton.

406
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,880
Maybe inside the castle. 
I'm more scared of Bolton's 

407
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,240
outside, I'm more scared of 
flints. 

408
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,560
But I get what you mean. 
They are fearsome in battle. 

409
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,960
And there's probably many flints
in the winter wolves flints from

410
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,320
various types of flints too, 
because there's like three of 

411
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,240
them, three different Flint 
castles. 

412
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,080
So yeah, very, very true. 
And and this Tony sled is sends 

413
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,400
this from Canada and they know a
few things about the north and 

414
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,280
some wolves, right? 
Dark wings, dark words. 

415
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,200
In this case, the dark wings and
dark words were a good thing. 

416
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,320
And we're not talking about a 
Raven, we're talking about 

417
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,440
Vermax bringing Jace. 
His relationship with Lord 

418
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,480
Kragen and the existing Northman
Vow to Raniero was sufficient to

419
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,200
get them committed, right? 
He men immediately sailed from 

420
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,920
White Harbor and the Winter 
Wolves rode out from Barreton. 

421
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,080
I would assume the White Harbor 
men got to King's Landing well 

422
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,200
before the Winter Wolves got to 
the Riverlands, because one's 

423
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,720
sailing and one's riding, and 
because the White Harbor men had

424
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,400
a head start. 
But they were eager. 

425
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,080
The Winter Wolves were eager to 
get going. 

426
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,280
They were eager to make their 
mark, and they, like I said, 

427
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,040
probably got going very quickly.
You would have to assume Lord 

428
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,680
Roderick had his succession in 
order. 

429
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,640
He's the Lord of Barrett, and 
you can't just take off and die 

430
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:05,200
and just ignore everything else.
He most likely had, well, he had

431
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,000
a son or a brother or somebody 
that was in line to inherit and 

432
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,200
that was all very clear. 
Like everybody knew he wasn't 

433
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,280
coming back. 
This wasn't some tongue in 

434
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,280
cheek, like we're not going to 
tell people what's really 

435
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,400
happening here. 
No, they all knew he was going 

436
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,000
and not coming back. 
I don't think there was any 

437
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,360
doubt there. 
I mean, I am editorializing here

438
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,240
because I don't know that for a 
fact, but I'm very confident in 

439
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,040
this read. 
He would have taking care of all

440
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,280
that business. 
You know, maybe his he may have 

441
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,920
already been a widower. 
If he had a if he had a wife, he

442
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,080
would have said farewell. 
All that business, you know, 

443
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,680
kissed his grandchildren. 
Who knows. 

444
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,680
But yeah, a couple other houses 
that I didn't mention. 

445
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,680
I guess maybe the, the Sirwin's 
might have been there, maybe 

446
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,160
even some older Starks, you 
know, like a cousin Stark, older

447
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,120
guy Hornwoods. 
But in in any case, a lot of but

448
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:48,880
a lot of men that are not are 
they're not noble. 

449
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,000
They're just these are just 
warriors. 

450
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,360
They're not they're not born 
into some noble house. 

451
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,480
They're not noble at all. 
That's what the bulk of them 

452
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,080
would be. 
But it is curious and fun to to 

453
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,200
point out where they may have 
come from originally. 

454
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,200
So yeah, 2000 of them riding 
shaggy northern horses armed 

455
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,000
pretty well, but not with high 
end weaponry. 

456
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,280
Because they're not coming back.
They don't expect to come back. 

457
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,320
So they want to leave the, the 
good sword. 

458
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,000
You leave that with your, your 
son. 

459
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,360
You leave that with someone 
who's going to have a whole life

460
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,000
to fight with that thing. 
Because decent chance is not 

461
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,080
coming back, right? 
His body's probably not coming 

462
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,280
back. 
Neither is his stuff. 

463
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,200
There is some exceptions, which 
we'll get to because there's 

464
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,120
some note of these warriors 
wanted to also maybe get a 

465
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:31,160
little something, something to 
send home, a little wealth, 

466
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,360
little something to get send 
back to their families who are 

467
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,600
about to deal with winter. 
But they weren't going to take 

468
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,640
the good stuff away. 
That's the whole point. 

469
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,880
They're trying to keep their 
family unburdened. 

470
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,400
So just going to take the 
clothes on their back, maybe an 

471
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560
axe, you know, a shield. 
That's about it. 

472
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,480
Their horse. 
Yeah. 

473
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,960
They marched through the Neck, 
along the Kings Road and met 

474
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,720
with the phrase Wolves in the 
Riverlands. 

475
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,280
So the war was well underway. 
The River Men and Westerman were

476
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,520
shredding each other under a 
variety of leaders. 

477
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,120
Prince Amond and Kristen Cole 
went for Harrenhal and when they

478
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,320
did, King's Landing fell behind 
them and the Winter Wolves were 

479
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,240
headed South. 
While all that was happening, 

480
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,400
the outlook was good for Team 
Black, at least from where the 

481
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:20,160
Winter Wolves were standing. 
Their homes were at risk back in

482
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,360
the North, though, right? 
So it's it's like, yeah, we were

483
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,480
in a good military situation 
potentially, but we don't care 

484
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,880
about the long term. 
We just want to. 

485
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,720
We're here to die there. 
As Corin Halfpan might say or 

486
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,280
did say, our lives are coined to
be spent for the realm. 

487
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,640
In their case, probably more to 
be spent for their families or 

488
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,080
for the north, that realm, not 
the whole realm. 

489
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,960
Here's another line. 
This is from the World of Ice 

490
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,160
and Fire. 
We had John and Alice Karstark 

491
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,000
discuss this. 
But I want to hear, I want you 

492
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,480
all to hear how the maesters put
it down to Penn. 

493
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,520
It's the old man of the North. 
Here we go, quote. 

494
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,400
The snows were already deep 
beyond the Neck, the cold winds 

495
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,040
rising in keeps and castles and 
humble villages throughout the 

496
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,640
North. 
The great and small alike prayed

497
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,520
to their carved wooden God trees
that this winter might be short.

498
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,840
Those with fewer mouths to feed 
fared better in the dark days. 

499
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,000
So it had long been the custom 
in the North for old men, 

500
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:25,040
younger sons, the unwed, the 
childless, the homeless and the 

501
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,200
hopeless to leave hearth and 
home when the first snows fell 

502
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,520
so that their kin might live to 
see another spring. 

503
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,440
Victory was secondary to the men
of these winter armies. 

504
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,600
They marched for glory, 
adventure, plunder, and most of 

505
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:50,600
all, a worthy end. 
There's something very accepting

506
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,120
about that fate. 
I mean, we're all, we all are 

507
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,120
going to die someday. 
So there's something kind of 

508
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,040
there's a strength in that of 
choosing the manner of your exit

509
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,840
that I think is respectable. 
I mean, we don't have to respect

510
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,920
war. 
We don't have to respect 

511
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000
violence, but we can respect 
that sort of courage that you 

512
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,480
choose to go and and actually 
do. 

513
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,320
But it's neat and ironic that 
they say they're going out 

514
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,520
hunting in normal circumstances,
but in these circumstances, 

515
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,280
there is actually someone to go 
hunt. 

516
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,960
And it's wolves do go hunting, 
right? 

517
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,640
Men go hunting and wolves go 
hunting. 

518
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,760
In fact, men and wolves often go
hunting the same things. 

519
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,280
That's something that we'll get 
into a little later, and we talk

520
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,920
about how people can get into 
this mindset. 

521
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,280
It relates to hunting and 
hunting the same things Wolves 

522
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,520
could go after deer, they go 
after sheep. 

523
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,960
So do people that we eat similar
things right when it comes to 

524
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,320
meat anyway. 
So it's neat to think also about

525
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,640
Roose Bolton hunting wolves as a
symbol of him turning on the 

526
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,240
Starks late in The Clash of 
Kings and Aria's POV. 

527
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,680
Meanwhile, the wolves loose in 
the Riverlands at that time were

528
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,840
under the leadership of a 
direwolf, Nymeria, who herself 

529
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,360
is a symbol of leadership and 
and wandering and finding a home

530
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:15,040
for people who were displaced. 
Now here is a more direct quote 

531
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,240
also from I believe this one. 
This one's from Fire and Blood 

532
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,720
and we have a description of the
men specifically right here 

533
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,800
quote. 
At their head rode the Lord of 

534
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:31,320
Barrowton, Roderick Dustin, a 
warrior so old and hoary men 

535
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,200
called him Roddy the Ruin. 
His host was made-up of grizzled

536
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,520
Gray beards and old male and 
ragged skins. 

537
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,800
Every man a seasoned warrior, 
every man a horse. 

538
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,000
They called themselves the 
Winter Wolves. 

539
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,600
We have come to die for the 
Dragon Queen. 

540
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,080
Lord Roderick announced at the 
twins when Lady Sabbath of Frey 

541
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,360
rode out to greet them. 
Man, every man was a horse. 

542
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,160
I was. 
Santa, they're all, they're all 

543
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,360
centaurs. 
Every single the winter horses, 

544
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,000
they should be. 
Yeah. 

545
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,760
That's the winter centaurs, you 
know? 

546
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,840
Yeah, so these are different 
phrase. 

547
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,960
When you think of the phrase, 
it's really easy to think of 

548
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,280
Lord Walder and treachery and 
the Red Wedding and all that. 

549
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,200
But these phrase fought with the
winter wolves. 

550
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,920
These phrase were loyal. 
Well, they were a little 

551
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,840
ambitious, especially Lady 
Sabatha, but Lord Forest rode to

552
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,520
battle with them. 
And this again, don't think of 

553
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,000
the TV show here. 
They weren't on horses in in the

554
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,280
TV show. 
And Forest Frey, they didn't 

555
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,760
really cast a guy that looks 
like a fighter. 

556
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,200
I'm not sure if he's going to go
fight with them or not. 

557
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,360
Maybe I'll be wrong. 
But anyway. 

558
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Game Forest. 
Neither of them look like real, 

559
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,200
you know. 
But they're going to be going 

560
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,840
out in the field, yeah. 
No, no, I was honestly one of 

561
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,640
the greater disappointments to 
me, but we'll see. 

562
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,960
Yeah, we'll see what they do 
with that anyway, but I would 

563
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,080
assume that the phrase treated 
them pretty well. 

564
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,040
We're out to go to war together.
Like it is very standard 

565
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,120
operating procedure in Westeros 
and pretty much anywhere. 

566
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,000
If you're going to go ride off 
to war with somebody, you have a

567
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,920
meal together, you eat together,
you're about to shed blood 

568
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,840
together, you're going to fight 
side by side. 

569
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,320
They're both very much bought 
into team Black. 

570
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,520
They're for the queen. 
These guys just came to announce

571
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,560
they're going to die for the 
queen. 

572
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,280
And, and the phrase phrase, no, 
the Northerners, they're not 

573
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,160
fools. 
They're not uneducated about who

574
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,920
these guys are. 
Rodney the ruin my I, I said 

575
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,400
maybe he's 60, but he might have
been older. 

576
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,440
There's no way they haven't 
heard of this guy, especially 

577
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,160
given the geography here. 
The Barrelton is in the southern

578
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,600
part of the north and the Twins 
are in the northern part of the 

579
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,480
Riverlands. 
Only the neck separates them. 

580
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,280
It's just unfathomable to me 
that that they haven't heard of 

581
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,360
this guy and they know why he's 
there too. 

582
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,920
Even though they're not 
northerners, they know he I 

583
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,200
mean, he, if they didn't, he 
said it out loud. 

584
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,040
We've come to die for the Dragon
Queen. 

585
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,160
So yeah, give them a nice meal, 
have one final hurrah, you know,

586
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,560
have let the drink flow. 
This isn't a Red Wedding 

587
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:56,840
situation. 
This is legitimate. 

588
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,520
This is sincere. 
This isn't stinginess. 

589
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,960
Especially cause, yeah, like I 
said, Lord Forest is about to go

590
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,600
fight with them. 
He's riding out with 200 

591
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,160
Knights, 600 footmen. 
So that's 2000 Winter Wolves 

592
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,440
plus 200 Knights from House 
Frey, 600 more footmen. 

593
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,840
So that's 2800 men on the way. 
They meet up with Red Rob 

594
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,800
Rivers, the Bowman of Raven 
Tree, 300 Archers. 

595
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,160
Red Rob considered the best 
Archer in Westeros at the time. 

596
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,160
And the second best was was 
still back with Benjicop 

597
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,200
Blackwood because, well, he pops
up later, Lord or not Lord, but 

598
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Billy Burley. 
So yeah, that Raven Tree big 

599
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,040
history of of archery there 
anyway, so great combination 

600
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,160
here. 
They're all going hunting. 

601
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,280
They're all going hunting 
greens, right? 

602
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,680
So we've got this nice combined 
force of winter wolves, frays 

603
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,720
and Archers and, well, they 
wouldn't have to wait long to 

604
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,800
get that taste. 
Several tastes of battle and the

605
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:06,840
taste of fish. 
The fish feed Lord Leopard was 

606
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,120
not supposed to be here today. 
He hadn't been the top of the 

607
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,240
chain of command, he had been 
like third at best. 

608
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,520
But after the deaths of Lord 
Jason Lannister and Sir Adrian 

609
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,640
Tarbeck he was next, even though
he himself had been badly 

610
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,240
wounded and was carried about in
a litter. 

611
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,760
Not to mention he was already 
very old, maybe the age of 

612
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,080
writing the ruin, but not nearly
in the same kind of fighting 

613
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,720
shape and not wanting to die. 
It's actually pretty impressive,

614
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,960
but it is a guy up against a lot
without much support. 

615
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,480
So he headed for Harrenhal with 
his army, the army that was 

616
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,760
again led by Lord Jason 
Lannister at first before Lord 

617
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,440
Jason was killed by Peyton 
Longleaf, the lion Slayer. 

618
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:58,720
And he finds this army of 
roughly 3100 Winter Wolves, Red 

619
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,480
Rob and phrase in his way. 
And he's like, all right, well, 

620
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,280
I don't want to. 
What am I going to do? 

621
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,440
Maybe we'll maybe we'll fight 
them. 

622
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,520
So they start to get into 
fighting order and build a camp,

623
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,560
a fortified camp. 
And then they were uh oh, behind

624
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,080
us, uh oh, another army's 
coming. 

625
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,680
There's Lord Bigglestone, one of
the funniest name Lords, Lord 

626
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,080
Chambers and Lord Perrin. 
These are more minor river Lords

627
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,240
that come up with a smaller 
host. 

628
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,160
But then they have Garibald 
Gray, who is a notable knight, 

629
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,720
and House Charlton and the 
aforementioned Benjicott 

630
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,800
Blackwood. 
So Raven Tree sent out two 

631
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,880
different forces, one to support
the Winter Wolves and the Frays,

632
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,520
one to support this army. 
And that was the bigger army, 

633
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,640
the one to support here. 
So they have Lord Lefferts 

634
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,480
Westerman kind of trapped. 
Leffert is worried. 

635
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,480
He's like, well, if I try to go 
this way, the northern group 

636
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,240
will hit me in the back. 
If I try to go this way, the 

637
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,360
southern group will hit me in 
the back. 

638
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:52,720
So he's not really sure what to 
do. 

639
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,160
It's a very desperate situation.
So he tries to send off some 

640
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,400
Ravens, tries to get help, 
nothing works. 

641
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,720
It's interesting. 
I'm going to make a few 

642
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,160
comparisons here throughout the 
episode of the Dragons to the 

643
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,800
winter wolves because the 
Dragons to me, the winter wolves

644
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,840
are more like the Dragons than 
any other humans because they're

645
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,639
the most just willing to die to 
go all the way to like once I'm 

646
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,600
committed, I'm committed. 
I don't care if I live or die. 

647
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,920
I'm just I'm about to fight. 
I'm not about the after, you 

648
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,080
know, there's no short, there's 
no long term thinking here at 

649
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,400
all. 
The Dragons are like that. 

650
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,480
When a dragon fights another 
dragon, unless there's a big 

651
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,679
size disparity, the end result 
usually is both of them die, or 

652
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,040
one of them is horribly wounded 
and the other one dies. 

653
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,960
That's pretty much the only 
result we ever see. 

654
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,840
So Leffert wanted a dragon. 
He wanted Veigar to come help 

655
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,360
him. 
You know what a huge deal that 

656
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,679
would be? 
Meanwhile, the 2 northern hosts,

657
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,520
the black hosts were like, yeah,
well we don't want Veigar to 

658
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,360
come. 
We may have prevented the scouts

659
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,800
from finding out that Vergar 
from alerting Eamond and Vergar 

660
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,400
and Kristen Cole what's going on
here, but we can't be sure. 

661
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,960
So normally they might have just
waited it out and just let let 

662
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:04,720
the let the left for desperation
play and make them do something 

663
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:09,200
desperate and then react. 
But that's just not how it went 

664
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,040
for a couple reasons. 
One, there was a legitimate fear

665
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,440
of a dragon showing up and 
throwing off the odds. 

666
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:20,160
But the winter wolves also were 
just you're just ready to go 

667
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:23,080
sitting around waiting. 
That's not what they're about. 

668
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,960
Quote Best make an end to these 
lions before the Dragons come. 

669
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,720
Said Roddy. 
The Ruin, the bloodiest land 

670
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,960
battle of the Dance of the 
Dragons, began the next day with

671
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,560
the rising of the sun. 
In the annals of the Citadel it 

672
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,240
is known as the Battle by the 
Lakeshore, but to those men who 

673
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,400
lived to tell of it, it was 
always the fish feed. 

674
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,320
Attacked from three sides, the 
western men were driven back 

675
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,960
foot by foot into the waters of 
the God's Eye. 

676
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,040
Hundreds died there, cut down 
whilst fighting in the reeds. 

677
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,920
Hundreds more drowned as they 
tried to flee. 

678
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,920
The Winter Wolves went first as 
the other sides closed in, very 

679
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,440
likely blowing they're war horns
or perhaps just the one war horn

680
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,480
from Roddy the Ruin himself. 
But there was definitely 

681
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,320
howling. 
We know that they do that. 

682
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,160
They howl like wolves. 
They it's their name. 

683
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,280
They surely had some stark 
battle standards. 

684
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,920
It's just part of their 
preparation, part of getting 

685
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,480
fired up for battle. 
It it's pretty much what they 

686
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,000
were looking for. 
I mean, it's the like, like the 

687
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,160
quote said, it was the bloodiest
land battle of the dance. 

688
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,000
It was not about taking a castle
or a city or anything of direct 

689
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,360
strategic value, it was about 
killing as many enemy soldiers 

690
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,080
as possible from to in order to 
prevent them from doing the 

691
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,440
aforementioned participation in 
direct strategic value 

692
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,960
operations. 
So yeah, the Winter Wolves 

693
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,320
aren't built for a siege. 
They don't really want easy 

694
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,680
battles or ones that they had no
hope in. 

695
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,440
They wanted a good fight and and
this is what that was. 

696
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,600
This is what they came for. 
Many winter wolves made their 

697
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,560
final charge or charges and the 
list of the dead is really 

698
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,560
something here. 
It really drives the point home.

699
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,880
Quote. 
By nightfall 2000 men were dead,

700
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:23,040
amongst them many notables 
including Lord Frey, Lord 

701
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,680
Lefford, Lord Bigglestone, Lord 
Charlton, Lord Swift, Lord 

702
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,120
Raine, Sir Clarence Crakehall 
and Sir Emery Hill. 

703
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,520
The Bastard of Lannisport. 
The Lannister host was shattered

704
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,360
and slaughtered, but at such 
cost that young Ben Blackwood, 

705
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,600
the boy Lord of Raven Tree, wept
when he saw the heaps of the 

706
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,960
dead. 
The most grievous losses were 

707
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,760
suffered by the Northmen, for 
the Winter Wolves had begged the

708
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,640
honor of leading the attack and 
had charged five times into the 

709
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,360
ranks of Lannister Spears. 
Thirds of the men who had ridden

710
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,840
S with Lord Dustin were dead or 
wounded, Lord Dustin himself. 

711
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,360
Did not fall and he almost 
certainly leads from the front. 

712
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,120
So impressive. 
This is a, you know, maybe 

713
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,040
someone in the mold of Sir 
Barristan in terms of his 

714
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,840
competence at such a high age. 
But in terms of his style of 

715
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,560
battle, I imagine it's very 
different. 

716
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,080
This is a lot more, a lot 
Wilder, a lot more intimidating 

717
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,440
in terms of his presentation. 
Perhaps not nearly as well 

718
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,080
trained, you know, maybe not 
trained in nightly type combat 

719
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,440
like Barristan was and raised in
a different place, but still 

720
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,960
effective for different reasons.
Still effective, extremely 

721
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,680
effective at such a high age. 
Really something now. 

722
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,000
Scars are something to brag of. 
It says he got scars in this 

723
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,800
battle. 
Roddy did more because surely 

724
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,280
they weren't his first. 
But scars are something to brag 

725
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,280
of. 
Of course you got to be alive to

726
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,160
brag about them. 
But even though a lot of the 

727
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,440
Winter wolves died here, there 
were still plenty left and they 

728
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,720
would have toasted the fallen 
and said hey, we'll be joining 

729
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:12,840
you soon and told the stories of
what happened there. 

730
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,920
You know who they fought and and
what stuff they took and the 

731
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,400
stories of other men they saw 
fall who weren't there to tell 

732
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,440
their own stories. 
So this wouldn't be their end. 

733
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,280
Of course, despite the high 
casualties, a lot of them would 

734
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,800
heal up and many of them would 
be maybe of that Sir Humphrey 

735
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:34,000
Harding attitude. 
Maybe something even more severe

736
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,680
or exceptional than that where 
like, yeah, my leg's broken, but

737
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,080
I can ride a horse. 
I'm going these guy. 

738
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,680
I mean, they came to die. 
Why would a a wound if you can 

739
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,920
physically sit your horse and 
you came S to die? 

740
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,760
I think you're getting back on 
that horse. 

741
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,400
I mean, that's if you were 
sincerely here to die, you're 

742
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,680
not going to let that slow you 
down. 

743
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,240
Now, there might be a few that 
just literally can't get on 

744
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,520
their horses though. 
Like they really can't even lift

745
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,800
their sword if they're in that 
state. 

746
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,520
They might be on their way out 
anyway. 

747
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,080
They might die of their wounds, 
but some few might survive that.

748
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,640
And that's important because 
we're looking throughout this 

749
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,960
episode to see if any of these 
guys survived. 

750
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,760
And I'm not sure they did. 
But if they did, if some few 

751
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,640
did, it would be because of 
things like this where they were

752
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,240
just actually disabled. 
Cool you'd lost your arm, your 

753
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,520
sword arm and it's one thing to 
go in battle with one arm. 

754
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,760
We we're going to see that. 
In fact, we see it plenty of 

755
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,960
times. 
But I mean maybe maybe you lost 

756
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,400
your left hand and your right 
arm like you really can't even 

757
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,320
hold a weapon, you know like 
that's that's not great. 

758
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,240
It's kind of unpleasant to think
about, but these these things 

759
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:40,280
happen right, not necessarily 
relevant to their afterlife. 

760
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,800
That's kind of a interesting 
consideration here. 

761
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,000
It's not something the North 
really discusses. 

762
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,240
It's not part of northern 
valley. 

763
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:50,200
Yes, you, you brave, you don't 
Kinslay, you observe guests, 

764
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,680
right? 
There's lots of northern values,

765
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,920
but there isn't like a Valhalla,
you know, like the the Ironborn 

766
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,200
have that the drowned gods, 
watery halls, they want to be 

767
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,400
remembered in the living world 
for what they did afterwards. 

768
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,120
It's not about a reward in the 
afterlife. 

769
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,680
The reward is the glory you 
leave for yourself and your 

770
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,080
family and your culture. 
Well, the other northerners will

771
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,880
benefit from your brave stand, 
your brave fall. 

772
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,960
You're representing that. 
Here's a fun line. 

773
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,040
Fighting continued elsewhere in 
the realm as well, though these 

774
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,000
clashes were smaller than the 
great battle by the God's Eye. 

775
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,120
Once again, Winter Wolves got 
what they wanted. 

776
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,280
Etcetera, right? 
That's this is the kind of glory

777
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,240
they were looking for. 
People are talking about it. 

778
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:35,040
It's remembered as this great 
battle, bigger battle, biggest 

779
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,840
battle, right? 
Can I say originally? 

780
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,760
Aziz wrote in his notes. 
This was exactly what the WW 

781
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,760
came for. 
And I was like White Walkers. 

782
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,400
And I was like, well, they do 
want more bodies. 

783
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,760
That's right. 
Yeah, it's one nice little thing

784
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,560
where they're like, others 
aren't getting these bodies, 

785
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:52,640
They're all the way in the 
South. 

786
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,920
Something horrible. 
It's gone horribly wrong. 

787
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,040
Otherwise, you're going to raise
some just. 

788
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,160
Skeletons for the depths, you 
know, like, oh, that one's. 

789
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,960
Definitely a winter wolf. 
Look at that beard. 

790
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,720
Dances with Wolves ironically, 
they turned next to hunting the 

791
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:17,240
kingmaker, the wolves and the 
Ravens from Raven Tree Hall and 

792
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:18,360
the twins, What do you call 
them? 

793
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:19,800
The the castles? 
I don't know. 

794
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,240
What are you marching around 
'cause they don't work as well 

795
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,200
for this animal symbolism, darn 
it phrase. 

796
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,680
And they all haunted this green 
army that had been in the 

797
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,040
Riverlands that was mostly not 
made of Riverlanders. 

798
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,200
So that was something that 
Kristen Cole's army had really 

799
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,640
working against them is that 
they were in a not a foreign 

800
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,080
realm. 
The Riverlands isn't that 

801
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,880
different. 
You know, it's the culturally, 

802
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,600
but they're not as familiar with
the terrain, the geography. 

803
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,560
They don't know like who where 
their friends are. 

804
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,800
And of course, this was the site
of the most perhaps unique 

805
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:56,160
campaign or demoralization 
tactic in any Westerosi war, 

806
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,160
which was the feasts of the dead
left both in front and behind of

807
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,600
Kohl's March. 
Now, this was the idea of the 

808
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,000
cell sword Black Trombo. 
So we're left to wonder what the

809
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,880
Winter Wolves thought of it. 
They're not here to to mess 

810
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,200
around like this, but they might
have gotten some amusement from 

811
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,840
it. 
You know, they're setting up the

812
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,480
bodies of people they themselves
killed to demoralize the enemy 

813
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,280
and they got to hate Kristen 
Cole. 

814
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,960
Although it's kind of ironic 
that Kristen Cole is hated so 

815
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,520
much because he started this 
war, had a huge role in starting

816
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,200
this war, and but this is the 
reason the Winter Wolves have a 

817
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,000
war to die in. 
Maybe they should be a little 

818
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,040
thankful, huh? 
But no, they weren't. 

819
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,120
They weren't particularly 
thankful. 

820
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,000
Or they showed their thanks by, 
well, fighting him. 

821
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:40,520
Yeah. 
Or tracking him, hunting him, 

822
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,800
making him feel like the 
haunted. 

823
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,520
So they really did go hunting in
the depths of winter here. 

824
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,520
Yeah. 
Hunting a a kingmaker and his 

825
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,960
men. 
And they would have a lot of 

826
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,600
experience with that. 
You know, these are guys who 

827
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:51,960
lived in the wolf's wood near 
that. 

828
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,560
These are guys who are hunting 
all their lives, hunting humans.

829
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,440
A little different, but not that
different. 

830
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,400
Kristen Coleman had a horrible 
time of it. 

831
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,960
Seeing these feasts of the dead 
was indeed demoralizing in a 

832
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,520
very creative, imaginative way. 
That's what they would have 

833
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,600
rather not faced. 
And eventually they with their 

834
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,360
inexperience and unfamiliar with
the train, they found themselves

835
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,520
in a a valley and realized that 
they had become trapped. 

836
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,120
The black armies have them 
cornered in that valley that 

837
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,640
they couldn't get out of without
fighting a much stronger, 

838
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,280
fresher army. 
And here's what transpired. 

839
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,880
Next quote calling for a peace. 
Banner, King Aegon's Hand wrote 

840
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,720
out to treat with them. 
Three came down from the Ridge 

841
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:38,720
to meet him. 
Chief amongst them was Sir 

842
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:42,160
Garibald Gray in his dented 
plate and mail. 

843
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,680
Pate of Longleaf was with him, 
the lion Slayer who had cut down

844
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,360
Jason Lannister together with 
Roddy the ruin bearing the scars

845
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,760
he had taken at the fish feed. 
If I strike my banners, do you 

846
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,000
promise us our lives, Sir? 
Kristen asked the three of them.

847
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,480
I made my promise to the. 
Dead, Sir, Garibald replied. 

848
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,040
I told them I would build a 
Sept. 

849
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,040
For them out of traders bones, I
don't have near enough bones 

850
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,920
yet. 
So, Sir, Kristen answered. 

851
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,960
If there is to be battle here, 
many of your own will die as 

852
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,440
well. 
The Northman, Roderick Dustin 

853
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,480
laughed at these words, saying 
that's why we come. 

854
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:28,760
Winners here, time for us to go.
Kristen is negotiating from 

855
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,400
position of weakness. 
And they knew it. 

856
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,840
And he knew it. 
Not only is his army in horrible

857
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,800
shape, these men absolutely hate
him. 

858
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,320
Yeah, I said that whole thing 
about maybe the Winter Wolves 

859
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,560
are actually like, yeah, 
actually, thanks for starting 

860
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,480
this war because it gave us this
chance to die. 

861
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,200
But other than that, I mean, 
they just. 

862
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:49,960
Everybody hates him. 
A very poor reason for switching

863
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,880
sides. 
This is how Kristen is perceived

864
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,480
by a lot of people pop personal 
reasons. 

865
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:58,240
Whether it was romantic reasons 
or not, it still comes off very 

866
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,680
poorly to put the whole realm in
this state because of your 

867
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,240
personal reasons. 
But his position was even weaker

868
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:07,160
than he realized. 
He he didn't have anything 

869
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,400
negotiate from he he did in my 
opinion, say the things that 

870
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,400
needed to be said to give 
himself a chance. 

871
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,960
Maybe not him, but his men. 
He pointed out he's like, oh, I 

872
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,800
can't appeal to your honor over 
my life because you don't care 

873
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,880
about my life and you don't 
really care about my men. 

874
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,160
So he brings up, well, some of 
your men will die if we fight, 

875
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,760
So that's the one thing that 
might move them, right? 

876
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,720
He's like, well, you don't want 
your own soldiers to die. 

877
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:32,480
But no, he didn't realize what 
he was up against. 

878
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,560
Even Ride of the Ruin, or 
especially Ride of the Ruin 

879
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,480
looks at that as a plus. 
He's like, well, that's 

880
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,000
literally why I'm here, man. 
You probably don't believe me, 

881
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,520
but no, I'm here to die. 
But I'm not sure you're going to

882
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:49,440
be enough for that, Sir Kristen.
In fact, no, truly, Kristen 

883
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,680
couldn't have done anything 
here. 

884
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,280
And as as much as the fish feed 
was the kind of fight the winter

885
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,000
wolves were looking for, this 
was something that needed to be 

886
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,960
done. 
But it really wasn't high on the

887
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,880
list of what they rode S for. 
According to Fire and blood. 

888
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,600
Here is what came next, quote 
Lord Roderick raised. 

889
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,400
A war horn to his lips and 
sounded the charge, and the 

890
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,080
Queen's men came screaming down 
the Ridge, led by the Winter 

891
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,600
Wolves on their shaggy northern 
horses and the Knights on their 

892
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,680
armored desterers. 
With Sir Kristin dead upon the 

893
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,440
ground, the men who had followed
him from Harrenhal lost heart. 

894
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,640
They broke and fled, casting 
aside their Shields as they ran.

895
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,480
Their foes came after cutting 
them down by the hundreds. 

896
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:43,160
Yeah, Kristen Cole. 
Had been shot down by arrows 

897
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,440
before the battle even started. 
So they were leaderless there 

898
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,560
and already in horrible shape 
and with their leader gone. 

899
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,120
Well, yeah, it it doesn't seem 
like it was much of A battle. 

900
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,400
It sounds like it was a 
slaughter. 

901
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,240
It was called the Butcher's 
Ball, and indeed it was 

902
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,320
butchery. 
Not so much of A battle now, but

903
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,600
Despite that, of course the 
Winter Wolves were still first 

904
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:06,000
into the into the battle. 
They charged 1st. 

905
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,040
May have taken a few casualties 
given that, but it sounds like 

906
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,520
most everybody just ran away and
there wasn't much of a fight at 

907
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,160
all. 
George does a really good job 

908
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,400
here of capturing the vibe of 
historical counts written by 

909
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,200
people who weren't there because
that happens all the time in 

910
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,880
real history. 
As someone who's read a lot of 

911
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,000
history books, like the source 
material, there's so many like 

912
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,200
invented speeches and lines just
given to historical figures that

913
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,360
there's no way that anyone could
know that that was said, 

914
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,360
especially not like the precise 
wording. 

915
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,560
So it's just full of that sort 
of stuff. 

916
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,960
And this is where we get it. 
It's it's somehow an accepted 

917
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,680
form of historical fiction, but 
this is fiction, so it's even 

918
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,240
more accepted here. 
But I just really like how he 

919
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:51,160
captures that real world vibe of
fictional historical fiction 

920
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,280
within his fiction. 
Yeah. 

921
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,040
So there wasn't much of a fight.
Victory is grand, but it it does

922
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,080
beat losing, right. 
It's not a bad thing. 

923
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,720
But still, the Winter Wolves 
didn't finish what they came S 

924
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:04,720
for. 
There had to be more. 

925
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:07,040
It wasn't this wasn't glorious. 
It wasn't an end. 

926
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,000
It was just something on the way
to do good, good, good victory. 

927
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,560
But again, victory was the 
number one on their list. 

928
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,720
They did. 
Now, it was mentioned in the 

929
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:19,000
earlier quote that they did seek
some measure of plunder. 

930
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,120
That's why I referred earlier to
the notion that maybe they were 

931
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:24,760
also still helping their 
families. 

932
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,880
You can get a few people who, 
maybe some younger men or maybe 

933
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,680
even some people who are 
disabled or not fighters in the 

934
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:37,720
1st place that could escort some
loot back to the north from 

935
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,720
victorious parties here, 
especially given the Riverlands 

936
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:44,960
was pretty much won by the 
Blacks at this point. 

937
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,880
You know, we're moving after the
defeat of Christian Cole's army.

938
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,720
The only thing, I mean, Veigar 
is still flying around burning 

939
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,480
things, but Veigar is not going 
to take note of a small group of

940
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,000
soldiers carrying loot back N 
he's burning villages and 

941
00:49:59,000 --> 00:49:59,600
castles. 
Yeah. 

942
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,360
He's not really concerned with 
this sort of thing, even if he 

943
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,520
didn't see it. 
So I think there's a good chance

944
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,480
some of this plunder that the 
Northerners were gaining through

945
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,120
these two different battles they
fought in. 

946
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:11,640
Yeah. 
They might have shipped some 

947
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:16,080
back home, feed their families, 
you know, make the next 

948
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:21,800
generation a bit stronger, 
whether it's coins or captured 

949
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,520
battle standards to hang in the 
halls or a little of both, you 

950
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:24,880
know? 
Yeah. 

951
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,240
Stuff worth things that can help
you get through winter because 

952
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:31,600
there's no point. 
Obviously they're not keeping it

953
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,680
for themselves, right. 
Like, what's the point of loot 

954
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,720
that. 
I mean, I'm going to die in two 

955
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:36,640
months here. 
I'm. 

956
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,920
I'm going to find a battle here 
shortly and that'll be the end 

957
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,320
of me. 
What's the point of having loot?

958
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,720
Yeah. 
So I have to assume there's some

959
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:47,000
sort of effort to get that loot 
back to the north to those 

960
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,360
families. 
From a hungry mouth to a 

961
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,160
profitable excursion. 
S Yeah, this war, war was 

962
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,040
profitable for for some of these
families, after all, given their

963
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,400
circumstances. 
Not in the South, but in the 

964
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,080
North. 
Yeah. 

965
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,800
Irony. 
The irony of war, It's it's 

966
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,880
really does strange things. 
I would like to introduce you to

967
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,000
the Philippo Loretti Winterfell 
Gray Watch. 

968
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:08,960
Look, I'm wearing this thing 
here. 

969
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,000
It's super cool. 
It's perfectly timed here. 

970
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,160
Hey. 
Pun intended. 

971
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,800
We've got concepts like winter 
is coming. 

972
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,120
We got Roddy the Ruin saying 
it's time to die. 

973
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,200
It's it's perfect. 
There's a lot of watch and time 

974
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,560
symbolism built built into the 
Starks in Winterfell in the 

975
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,760
North. 
This collection features 2 

976
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,520
models. 
There's the Winterfell Gray and 

977
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,400
the frost born blue. 
He pulls it up closer to the 

978
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:35,920
cameras. 
Absolutely. 

979
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,320
Here we go. 
Yeah, there we go. 

980
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,760
Yeah, we swapped it and we put 
this white strap on it. 

981
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,280
I'm going to show you guys a 
closer look via some photos 

982
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,440
right here. 
Yeah, we don't have any. 

983
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,080
Affiliate link or anything like 
that? 

984
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,520
They just sent this watch to us 
and wanted us to talk about it 

985
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,280
and you know, we, we were happy 
to do so. 

986
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,440
It's a very nice watch and it's 
really well made. 

987
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,600
It's got great cool symbolisms. 
Got the Stark sigil on it. 

988
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,400
They've got their own sort of 
custom Stark Weywood sigil that 

989
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,000
comes on the box. 
It's also got the. 

990
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,000
Valyrian steel blade ice as the 
hands of the clock. 

991
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,760
That's right, 22 ices. 
A smaller and a bigger. 

992
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,560
It's got little. 
Little castle details where 

993
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,360
would details as you can see 
here and it glows in the dark at

994
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,440
night, which is which is pretty 
cool. 

995
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:23,760
I have a picture of that here as
well. 

996
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,400
Yeah, it's very beautiful. 
Watch yes, if you're going to 

997
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,600
some. 
You know, high end function, you

998
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,480
know, and you want to represent 
the North, well, by all means, 

999
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,320
you got to get yourself a 
Filippo Loretti Winterfell watch

1000
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,920
for sure, friends. 
You can support our show in 

1001
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,080
general by going to our website,
thatshistoryofwesteros.com. 

1002
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,880
There's a variety of ways to 
help us keep our thing going 

1003
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,160
here. 
This is a good thing that we've 

1004
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,520
been doing for a while. 
We want to keep that going for 

1005
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,800
an even longer while and you all
can help us out. 

1006
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,480
You can shop through the links 
on the right hand panel there, 

1007
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,000
whether it's Amazon or anything 
else. 

1008
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,080
Some of those are just links we 
put up there because we like 

1009
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:00,600
them. 
It isn't necessarily going to 

1010
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,480
make us money. 
We do offer things that we think

1011
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,120
are cool. 
We're not all about just 

1012
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,120
everything has to make us 
pennies here and there. 

1013
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,360
But there are a variety of ways 
that are designed specifically 

1014
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,840
to help us and patrons the main 
way. 

1015
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,880
But any engaging with any of our
sponsors tends to be very 

1016
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,960
helpful to us as well. 
Congrats to listener Vasilicious

1017
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,000
666, who just had twins. 
Twins. 

1018
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaking of the twins, we've got
twins to shout out here. 

1019
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:28,880
Very great. 
I love that. 

1020
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,920
Heck yeah. 
Speaking of twins, hey Dom, 

1021
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,680
Tartaglia says the phrase are 
double crossers for the 2 Tower 

1022
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,600
Bridge and other stuff. 
Double crossers. 

1023
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,440
Oh my goodness, that is a good 
pun. 

1024
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,800
Dom, you got me there. 
Double crossers. 

1025
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,480
Oh, how did I not think of that?
I've done a whole episode on the

1026
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:49,880
phrase and didn't think of that 
one. 

1027
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,280
Good one. 
Now, George R Martin is a big 

1028
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,120
wolf conservation guy. 
You know, obviously wolves come 

1029
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,240
up in his stories because they 
are ubiquitous in fantasy, in 

1030
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,480
real world mythology, and in 
just the real world. 

1031
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,680
I believe you can still donate 
$20,000 to the Spirit Wolf 

1032
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,800
Sanctuary and in exchange George
will name a character after you 

1033
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,760
and kill you off gruesomely. 
I believe you even get to choose

1034
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:15,640
the manner of your death. 
I'm not sure that offer is still

1035
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,120
out there, but he did that for a
while. 

1036
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:21,840
Of course Tolkien had a lot of 
wolves in his legendarium. 

1037
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,440
There was Bjorn the skin 
changer, who was pretty much a 

1038
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:31,040
berserker when he was in in bear
form and was kind of a lot more 

1039
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,080
mild when he was not. 
I find maybe I get that 

1040
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,040
backwards, but Bjorn literally 
means bear, so there's that. 

1041
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:40,400
And of course wolves were big 
and in his since Tolkien was big

1042
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,440
in Norse mythology, there's that
crossover as well. 

1043
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:48,840
Now let's talk a little bit 
about age and the reality of old

1044
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,600
men in combat roles like this. 
How realistic is this? 

1045
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,800
Now, it doesn't need to be 
realistic, of course, this is a 

1046
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,760
fantasy world. 
But I think we all prefer when 

1047
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,160
the human elements are 
realistic. 

1048
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,240
Sure, Dragons just do whatever 
they do because that's not 

1049
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,640
realistic. 
But still, you know, people, we 

1050
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,560
want people to be like people. 
We want the human parts to be 

1051
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,440
realistic, germane to real life 
as much as possible. 

1052
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,120
It feels more, it just feels 
more authentic that way. 

1053
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:13,960
I think a lot of people who are 
drawn to A Song of Ice and Fire 

1054
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,920
feel that way. 
You know, it's not the same for 

1055
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,880
everybody. 
Your your mouths may vary, but 

1056
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,040
most militaries throughout 
history do have age-related 

1057
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,240
milestones right? 
Whether it's a retirement age or

1058
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:28,680
draft age or certain ages where 
you age out of certain things or

1059
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,000
into other things that they are 
there. 

1060
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,800
A good example is one of the 
most famous militaries of all 

1061
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,960
time, Rome. 
If you haven't thought about the

1062
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,640
Roman Empire this week, here's 
your chance. 

1063
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,640
Roman legions were generally 
after, I believe after the 

1064
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,040
Marian reforms, divided into 3 
ranks, the front, the middle and

1065
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,360
the rear. 
How about that? 

1066
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,200
But there. 
But these were age-related. 

1067
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:51,760
The youngest men were in the 
front, the middle-aged were in 

1068
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,520
the middle and the oldest were 
in the back. 

1069
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,040
The oldest more experienced guy.
Generally they're, they're 

1070
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,240
called the Triarii, right? 
That's the third ranked Triarii 

1071
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,840
3, right? 
Third. 

1072
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,640
But you aren't in the Trearia 
unless you had been in the 1st 2

1073
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,440
ranks for a stint each space. 
So you survived a lot. 

1074
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,000
You've survived being in the 
front ranks. 

1075
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,640
That's not easy. 
Then you survived being in the 

1076
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,760
middle ranks, which is also not 
easy, but not quite as 

1077
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,280
dangerous. 
And then you survive and get put

1078
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,720
in the third rank where you've 
been promoted. 

1079
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,440
You've got some regard, you got 
respect. 

1080
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,280
So these aren't just older men, 
they're older men who have 

1081
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,920
survived a lot. 
The Winter Wolves are dissimilar

1082
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,080
to Roman legions in 1000 
different ways, cause like the 

1083
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,160
way they fight, the way they're 
organized, the way they 

1084
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,960
discipline, the what they 
believe in. 

1085
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,840
But in this way, there is some 
overlap because, well, Roman 

1086
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,360
legions didn't just force dudes 
into retirement 'cause they're 

1087
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,360
old. 
If you could still fight, you 

1088
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,040
could still fight. 
Also, this is kind of the 

1089
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,320
reverse in that I just told you 
that the older guys stand in the

1090
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,120
back where the young men are in 
the front. 

1091
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,760
The winter wolves are literally 
in the front. 

1092
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,960
The young men are still picking 
crops in the north because 

1093
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,320
winter's coming. 
In this scenario, where has the 

1094
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,920
winter wolves will have already 
like mostly fought and died to a

1095
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,360
man before any of these 
youngsters March South. 

1096
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:10,360
So anyway, if in general an 
entire unit made out of men in 

1097
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:14,200
their 50s and 60s, if not older 
sounds unrealistic, well, it's 

1098
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,720
not. 
There's lots of examples 

1099
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,280
throughout history. 
It's not common, but it 

1100
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,240
definitely exists. 
My favorite example is the 

1101
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,880
Arduraspides, which I might have
said wrong, but it means silver 

1102
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,760
Shields. 
I'll say silver Shields from now

1103
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,600
on. 
That was a Macedonian Greek unit

1104
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,320
that took its name while in 
India. 

1105
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,200
That's right, Alexander the 
Great. 

1106
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,760
He took his armies all the way 
to freaking India. 

1107
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,800
They were an elite unit, not 
just a unit of older guys that 

1108
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,040
had made it this far. 
They were a unit of older guys 

1109
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,680
that had made it this far and 
were elite, and we're still 

1110
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,480
elite despite being that old. 
It's kind of wild. 

1111
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,680
They were a veteran unit with 
most members over 60, not 50s 

1112
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,240
and 6 / 60. 
Most of their members were over 

1113
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,920
60 and they were called the 
Silver Shields, not because of 

1114
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,600
their age, although that is a 
good joke. 

1115
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,840
No, but they actually put silver
on their Shields to to indicate 

1116
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,240
their elite status. 
But they had earned it, right? 

1117
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,480
So the final commander of the 
silver, they went through a 

1118
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,880
bunch of different guys over the
years. 

1119
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,880
This wasn't a unit that lasted 
hundreds of years, but their 

1120
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,440
final commander was a guy named 
Antigenes, and he was executed 

1121
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,320
by Antigonus One eye. 
Yes, Antigenes. 

1122
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,600
And Antigonus and Antigenes, by 
the way, also had only one eye. 

1123
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,440
So we have Antigonus, one eye, 
Antigenes, one eye. 

1124
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:35,680
And he had, Antigonus had 
antigenes burned alive partly 

1125
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,280
because he hated the silver 
Shields, because he lost to them

1126
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,160
so many times. 
They were on the opposite side 

1127
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,560
of in the civil war, a long 
standing civil war. 

1128
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,800
And Antigonus was highly, highly
successful. 

1129
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,480
So no one really could say they 
beat him several times except 

1130
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,560
these guys, give or take. 
So he, he was really annoyed by 

1131
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,360
them. 
So he, he really took it really 

1132
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,320
stuck at the antigenes here just
for fun. 

1133
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,800
By the way, Antigonus and 
antigenes much, much earlier in 

1134
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,640
their careers fought for King 
Philip the second of Macedon, 

1135
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,240
who also had one eye. 
So it's like a whole army of one

1136
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:10,560
eye. 
This may as well be a Cyclops 

1137
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,760
army here. 
All three of these characters, 

1138
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,080
by the way, will eventually 
appear in our continued coverage

1139
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,320
of the Game of Thrones at the 
end of ancient Greece, although 

1140
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,960
pretty far away is we're we're 
we're like 80 years away from 

1141
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,600
this. 
And taking his one eyes son is 

1142
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,720
also on the docket. 
And I, you've heard me mention 

1143
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,640
him many times because he's got 
such a great name, my favorite, 

1144
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,200
perhaps ancient world moniker, 
Demetrius the besieger. 

1145
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,120
Yeah, which also Demetrius, 
thank you Demetrius, for 

1146
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,000
providing me a nice segue to 
saying winter wolves once again,

1147
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,240
are not here for sieges. 
Nope. 

1148
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,040
They they are the anti 
besiegers. 

1149
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,320
They're they would storm the 
walls if there's like, if 

1150
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,800
anyone's giving them any 
resistance, well, that's that's 

1151
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,120
just something for us to try to 
overcome. 

1152
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:50,920
And if not, well, that's what we
came here for. 

1153
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,440
And somehow they get themselves 
worked up. 

1154
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,120
But this is the part that, well,
I don't think maesters would 

1155
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,800
necessarily understand this or 
get into it or be Privy to it 

1156
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:01,720
even. 
But. 

1157
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,080
I don't know that the Winter 
Wolves just say let's go and 

1158
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,200
immediately they're in this 
battle frenzy. 

1159
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,600
There's got to, there might be 
something they have to do to 

1160
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,160
work themselves up a little, 
maybe to get in the mood to get 

1161
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,280
in the zone. 
So let's talk about that a 

1162
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:20,360
little bit. 
Drunk on blood and battle AKA 

1163
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,240
how to be a wolf without skin 
changing. 

1164
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,440
So the winter wolves are known 
specifically for going blood 

1165
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,720
drunk in battle, which I believe
is a pretty clear parallel to 

1166
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,560
the so-called berserker rage 
associated with Viking age 

1167
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,560
warriors. 
Berserkers are a highly 

1168
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:38,160
fictionalized but misunderstood 
because very real thing, like a 

1169
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,360
lot of the things we hear about 
them in pop culture and on a 

1170
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,880
variety of TV shows and movies 
aren't very accurate or they're 

1171
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,240
made-up because we don't know. 
And you got to make up something

1172
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,240
because I mean you. 
It's too fun to just leave blank

1173
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,040
and just don't talk about it. 
Make something cool up for that.

1174
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,800
But the point is a lot of these 
things are made-up because we 

1175
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:57,920
just don't know. 
Sometimes they're called more 

1176
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,280
generically frenzy warriors 
rather than berserkers because 

1177
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,160
it's not just a Viking Age 
thing. 

1178
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:04,760
It isn't just a Norse culture 
thing. 

1179
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,120
It wasn't just Scandinavian. 
There's frenzy warriors come 

1180
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,440
from a variety of traditions 
pretty much all over the world. 

1181
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,120
More on that in a minute. 
Berserker is thought to mean 

1182
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:18,960
bear shirt because Sirk it means
shirt. 

1183
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,080
If you watch the TV show 
Vikings, there's a character 

1184
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,560
called Vitzerk. 
Vit means white, so his nickname

1185
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,800
is just white shirt. 
Now some have thought it means 

1186
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:33,760
bear shirt like BARE like BEAR 
'cause they would often go into 

1187
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,320
battle shirtless or just with an
animal skin. 

1188
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,000
But that's probably not 
accurate. 

1189
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,960
Even though they the bear shirt 
part them going into battle that

1190
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,520
way is. 
It's probably not what the name 

1191
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,680
meant though. 
To go berserk means to change 

1192
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,200
form, which is very much getting
into skin, changing in the whole

1193
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:56,280
vibe of being like the animal 
you're kind of embodying, right?

1194
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,760
They're all over the sagas. 
Berserkers. 

1195
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,920
There's common reference to 
them, not just sagas, but 

1196
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,400
histories. 
Of course, there is a bit of a 

1197
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,680
blurry distinction between saga 
and history. 

1198
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,680
There's a fun example, a guy 
named Caveldolf, which literally

1199
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:14,480
means evening wolf Werewolf. 
Yes, he turns into a wolf at 

1200
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,000
night. 
You guessed it, sometimes 

1201
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,600
berserkers are just called 
Odin's men because they he's 

1202
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,200
like the patron God of this 
battle frenzy. 

1203
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,000
It's not from Thor or someone 
else. 

1204
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,480
It's this is an Odin thing, and 
so is the one eyed bit, but it's

1205
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,720
getting all confused. 
So the wolf version of this 

1206
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,160
berserk bear shirt, the wolf 
version of this is ulfednar, 

1207
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,640
which I also probably didn't say
right, but close enough. 

1208
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,080
I hope this makes more sense in 
in a lot of ways to me as a 

1209
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,600
human thing to embody. 
Because bears are more solitary.

1210
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,120
They don't really hunt in packs.
You know, wolves are pack 

1211
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:51,640
hunters. 
That kind of reflects more how 

1212
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,640
humans fight in armies. 
They live in large groups, 

1213
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:55,960
operate and such. 
Yeah. 

1214
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,080
Berserkers were banned in 
Iceland, for example, in other 

1215
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,600
parts of Scandinavia, in 
Iceland, I believe it was in the

1216
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:06,160
year 1015 AD. 
So that's another example of, 

1217
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,240
yeah, it must have been real if 
it was banned. 

1218
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,040
It's a similar example as in the
Bible. 

1219
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,080
And we talked about the Bible 
and then I forget what episode. 

1220
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:14,360
Oh, it was the necromancy 
episode. 

1221
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,040
Necromancy was banned in the 
Bible. 

1222
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,840
That's curious, isn't it? 
So the concept may have 

1223
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,600
originated with hunting. 
There's Old World and not just 

1224
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,120
in, again, not just in 
Scandinavia, wolf cults, bear 

1225
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,520
cults and boar cults and other 
animal cults. 

1226
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,840
And this comes from, yeah, 
hunting, right? 

1227
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,440
Hunting's a way of life. 
It's everything. 

1228
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,080
It's where you get your food. 
It's where you get your skins, 

1229
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,680
your fur. 
So it's it's like half of your 

1230
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,400
entire existence is hunting. 
So you can understand why people

1231
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,480
would really associate 
everything with it. 

1232
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,920
To hunt an animal, it behooves 
you to think like that animal. 

1233
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:50,800
But you're not really hunting 
wolves, are you? 

1234
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,720
But you are hunting, as we said 
before, the same animals that 

1235
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,480
wolves hunt. 
Wolves hunt game. 

1236
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:02,040
Humans hunt game, right? 
They both go after deer and 

1237
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,960
other similar animals, prey 
animals. 

1238
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,600
We predate on the same animals. 
So you can kind of understand 

1239
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,520
that concept. 
You can kind of understand that 

1240
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,960
crossover, how ancient peoples 
would see themselves as similar 

1241
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:20,160
to see that, to see wolves as 
sort of a brother species, 

1242
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,480
sister species, sibling species,
right? 

1243
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,400
Something that they have a lot 
in common with because they 

1244
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,440
operate in the world, the world 
of nature, in a very similar 

1245
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,840
manner in terms of how they 
sustain themselves and how they 

1246
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,960
hunt. 
All right, Ancient hunters 

1247
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,240
didn't live in one place. 
They had to move with the herds.

1248
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:39,960
If the herds are going South, we
got to go South. 

1249
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,040
We got to go where the food's 
going, Right? 

1250
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,520
So yeah, the wolf cult, which is
kind of just referred to as a 

1251
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,680
generic thing that could have 
existed in many different places

1252
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,040
around the world in many 
different times, is a recurring 

1253
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:56,040
thing because of this proximity,
humans living so close to these 

1254
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:00,240
values, to these naturalistic 
ideas, these concepts that play 

1255
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,360
out in front of them. 
Olfadnar translates as wolf 

1256
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,720
skinners, not skinners, like, 
not someone who's skinning a 

1257
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:11,080
wolf like a wolf skin, like a 
fighter, you know, someone who 

1258
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,880
fights not Yeah, a wolf. 
Or the other translation is wolf

1259
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,640
heathen, which is pretty 
interesting. 

1260
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,520
The oldest reference to 
berserkers is Harold Finehair, 

1261
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,040
who himself is a real world 
figure, historical figure who is

1262
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,160
very fictionalized, but he had 
them as a personal unit, so it 

1263
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:32,080
was a real way to inspire fear. 
And he was the first king of 

1264
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:36,360
Norway supposedly. 
So it explains how he was able 

1265
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:41,400
to subjugate so many very 
stubborn, warlike lesser 

1266
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,800
chieftains if he had ulfhedenar,
that he could unleash men who 

1267
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:50,120
would die in battle because of 
their frenzy. 

1268
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:55,800
People who are willing to die to
beat you are not a foe you can 

1269
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,520
easily defeat. 
And like, well, they're willing 

1270
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,960
to go farther than I am. 
I'm not willing to die to defend

1271
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:06,000
my, my own land. 
I mean, I would defend my family

1272
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,880
that way, but it's not going to 
get me any profit to die, right?

1273
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,840
That's something you aim for 
except in extreme circumstances 

1274
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,880
like this when you want to 
glorious noble death, right? 

1275
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:17,880
And this is the interesting 
thing about Harold Fine here and

1276
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:24,440
having ulfednar as his personal 
either shock troops, bodyguard, 

1277
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,680
the terms are thrown around. 
It's not entirely clear. 

1278
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,040
Some of this comes in directly 
from his court poet. 

1279
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:31,600
That's right. 
He had a court poet named 

1280
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:36,360
Torbjorn Horn Clove, which I 
really wish it was hork love 

1281
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,240
like he loves Hornks. 
I don't know what a hork is 

1282
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,960
though, and I say indirectly 
because we don't have his direct

1283
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,600
writings, but we have poets and 
sagaists who quoted him. 

1284
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:47,280
So it's assumed kind of like 
Homer. 

1285
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:49,360
No one actually has the writings
of Homer, but we have a 

1286
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,000
bajillion people who quoted 
Homer and Iliad and all that. 

1287
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,000
Now there's a lot of attempts in
history and historians and 

1288
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,480
archaeologists to figure out how
Vikings did that or how anybody 

1289
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,200
does it. 
How do you get yourself worked 

1290
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,320
up like that is? 
How do you get your mind state 

1291
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:08,560
to be such that you don't care 
about being stabbed or that 

1292
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:11,120
nothing scares you? 
Like, how do you get your mind 

1293
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,400
into that state? 
Because you're not walking 

1294
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,840
around like that day-to-day. 
You're not like, wake up first 

1295
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:18,880
thing in the morning, go to the 
bathroom, have breakfast, you 

1296
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:21,760
know, like, I'm going to die at 
breakfast. 

1297
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:23,360
Yeah, it just does. 
You can't be like that all the 

1298
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,080
time. 
That's not healthy. 

1299
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:30,720
That's not workable. 
So 1 theory for a long time was 

1300
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,400
drugs. 
There's a mushroom that's 

1301
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,160
suggested as a possibility. 
That theory is not very well 

1302
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:36,880
supported. 
Henbane. 

1303
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,920
However, there was a Viking age 
berserker grave where they found

1304
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,400
henbane seeds. 
And henbane will absolutely make

1305
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,960
you, you know, kind of like, 
like this, like PCP where you're

1306
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,680
just like mad angry strength 
with no brain, no upper 

1307
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,400
thinking, just I am, I am 
strength. 

1308
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,080
I am power. 
I am kill. 

1309
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:55,920
I am die. 
Yeah. 

1310
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,360
You have, no, your brain's gone.
You're just muscles and 

1311
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:03,120
reactions and stimulus. 
It's yeah, there are drugs that 

1312
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,160
can do that to you. 
And and for some people, that's 

1313
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,240
easier to wrap your head around 
than some sort of like working 

1314
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,160
yourself up into that just by 
thinking and biting a shield or 

1315
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:15,000
biting your own arm or you and 
your buddy punching each other a

1316
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:19,600
few times or dancing around a 
fire with some shame and guiding

1317
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,240
your ritual. 
Like in the movie The Northmen. 

1318
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:24,240
That's a good example of the 
they don't know how berserkers 

1319
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:25,840
went berserk, so they made it 
up. 

1320
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,640
Robert Egger just being 
creative. 

1321
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,720
He's like, well, I don't know, 
maybe they danced around a fire 

1322
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,720
and and tried to act like wolves
and started going and eventually

1323
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:36,920
they their eyes would roll back 
in their head and they would 

1324
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,880
become like that. 
Yet nobody knows. 

1325
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,359
You got to make stuff up. 
Maybe that's why George didn't 

1326
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:44,560
get into this for his guys, 
because he doesn't know either. 

1327
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:46,760
I mean, he could have made 
something fun up, but what are 

1328
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,359
we supposed to imagine? 
Right? 

1329
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:49,800
We don't. 
It's it's it's written between 

1330
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,960
the lines here. 
Like I can't imagine, like I've 

1331
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,800
been saying that they just all 
right, let's go berserk, go and 

1332
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:58,359
then 2 seconds later they're 
battle drunk, right? 

1333
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,560
Something has there's there's a 
process here. 

1334
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,439
I don't know what it is and it's
not described in Fire and Blood,

1335
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,160
but something's going on here. 
The maesters just don't get it. 

1336
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:08,479
The maesters don't get a lot of 
things. 

1337
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,120
The maesters don't talk about 
the supernatural very much. 

1338
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,479
They shun it. 
They they talk down about it. 

1339
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:14,760
I think there's a little bit of 
that here. 

1340
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,319
They don't get Northern culture.
The maesters are all worshippers

1341
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:19,960
of the seven. 
This is this is outside of their

1342
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,600
area of expertise. 
It's doesn't really fit in their

1343
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:25,200
worldview. 
But consider this conceptually 

1344
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:27,800
in Westeros, this this is a 
bigger deal in Westeros in some 

1345
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,399
ways, because skin changing is 
real in Westeros. 

1346
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,399
You know, it's not just like a 
mythological thing or something 

1347
01:09:33,399 --> 01:09:36,200
people talked about as if it 
could be real. 

1348
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,399
It is real and it's well 
established. 

1349
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,040
And, and even Maester's would, 
you know, downplay it saying, 

1350
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:45,760
oh, they used to be real, but 
no, they're very real. 

1351
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:49,279
So I, I don't want to call them 
mundane, but there's no, these 

1352
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:51,640
are not supernaturally enhanced 
wolf men. 

1353
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,360
They're winter wolves, but 
there's no skin changing at all 

1354
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:55,800
here. 
It's kind of neat that they have

1355
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,920
these values and it's reinforced
by the fact that skin changers 

1356
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:00,680
really do exist. 
Maybe they interview them like, 

1357
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:02,280
hey, what's it really like being
in a wolf's head? 

1358
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:05,000
I want to get some of that. 
I'm trying to be like a wolf. 

1359
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,280
So you a skin changer who's been
inside a wolf's head. 

1360
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:08,680
Tell me what it's like. 
What am I going to do? 

1361
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:14,080
Commonly repeated in this in the
North sources and sagas is the 

1362
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:19,000
idea that berserkers would 
ignore fire and edged weapons, 

1363
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,880
which is often written as fire 
and iron, which is very much how

1364
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,840
the others are denoted, of 
course, in the opposite way, 

1365
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:26,320
that that's the one thing they 
don't ignore. 

1366
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,920
Everything else they ignore 
except these things. 

1367
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:33,120
So it's they are sort of the 
polar opposite, pun intended, in

1368
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:36,560
that sense. 
Now, wolf warriors, as I alluded

1369
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,800
to before, Viking culture is a 
great example. 

1370
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,240
George loves Viking culture. 
The North is very steeped in it.

1371
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,080
I've argued before that in fact 
and will again, that the 

1372
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,160
Ironborn have the famous aspects
of Viking culture, you know, 

1373
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,720
raiding and plundering and 
sailing in the Drowned God's 

1374
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,440
watery halls. 
But almost everything else about

1375
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:57,400
Viking Age culture, tradition, 
worship, all that is much better

1376
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,400
represented in the north. 
Blood sacrifice, Ravens, trees, 

1377
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,240
one eyed blood Raven, stuff like
that. 

1378
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:06,000
Yeah, the Drowned God is yeah, 
the watery halls part is more 

1379
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,760
like Valhalla, but we're talking
about like the drowned God 

1380
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:15,720
itself is more like right. 
So anyway, Native Americans for 

1381
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,720
example, that's a really good 
example. 

1382
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,880
They have wolf warriors or at 
least and or different 

1383
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,240
relationship with the wolves 
that are a little more 

1384
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,360
spiritual. 
Wolf names are really common in.

1385
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,000
Now, you don't want to get too 
crazy with Native Americans as a

1386
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:33,320
catch all phrase because there's
Native American cultures that 

1387
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:37,920
were extremely friendly and ones
that skinned people and engaged 

1388
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,480
in cannibalism. 
So like, it's like the free folk

1389
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:44,000
in a sense where you've got a 
culture that kind of lumps them 

1390
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,080
all into one, but they're really
quite diverse. 

1391
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:47,720
And it's the same with Native 
Americans. 

1392
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,640
But it was still ubiquitous 
amongst a wide variety of Native

1393
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,680
American cultures because wolves
were ubiquitous, just like 

1394
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,840
wolves are ubiquitous around the
world in the northern countries 

1395
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,720
or northern continents, right? 
There's not really, there aren't

1396
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:04,080
really wolves so much in South 
America, Africa, Australia. 

1397
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,840
Australia has dingoes instead. 
There's a wolf called the canid 

1398
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,320
wolf in South America, but it 
isn't really, it isn't really a 

1399
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:11,960
wolf. 
It's it's a type of canine. 

1400
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:17,720
But anyway, that's just kind of 
side trivia there. 

1401
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:20,760
It's just really interesting to 
note how many different ancient 

1402
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,840
cultures in our world had very 
close relationship with wolves 

1403
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,640
or bears or other animals. 
Wolves are just a really common 

1404
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,440
one because of how common wolves
are. 

1405
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,640
Neanderthals may have it 
coexisted with wolves now. 

1406
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:34,560
Well, they had to have to some 
degree. 

1407
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,680
We're not sure what, but this is
Neanderthals were gone before 

1408
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:41,180
they were dogs or mostly gone 
before they were dogs, quote UN 

1409
01:12:41,180 --> 01:12:42,560
quote, before there was full 
domestication. 

1410
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:45,240
So the relationship with wolves 
would have been different. 

1411
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,680
In fact, Neanderthals coexisted 
with actual dire wolves, which 

1412
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:50,800
that's interesting. 
I don't know what to I have 

1413
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,920
nothing much to say about that, 
but it's pretty interesting 

1414
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:56,000
anyway. 
One ubiquitous aspect of the 

1415
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,760
wolf warrior culture that 
whether it's Native American or 

1416
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,960
Viking or Indo European or 
Turkish, there's all these 

1417
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,360
examples. 
It's this bloodlust, this battle

1418
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:11,560
lust thing that yes, berserker 
is a Norse term, but it's the 

1419
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,960
idea is expansive. 
It doesn't just involve 

1420
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,360
Scandinavia like it's phrased 
many different ways. 

1421
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,600
Battle lust. 
Blood drunk is one that George 

1422
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:24,280
likes. 
Blood drunk isn't really out 

1423
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:25,960
there for a lot. 
I looked up blood drunk and it's

1424
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,400
most it's like a band by it's 
like a, a song by a famous death

1425
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:32,400
metal band called Blood Drunk 
and not much else, though. 

1426
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,280
Well, let's let's think about 
the Ironborn here, though, we've

1427
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,040
got Victarion's POV. 
When he's in battle, he's 

1428
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,080
excited, he's confident, he's 
proud. 

1429
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:43,320
He's not the most active brained
guy, but he's nothing like 

1430
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:47,640
Berserk. 
He's not like, you know, he's he

1431
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,800
actually thinks a little bit, 
you know, I mean, so, So what 

1432
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,880
what passes for thinking? 
But he's not a he's not a 

1433
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,560
completely useless in a fight. 
He's he's good at that. 

1434
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,080
He yells at his foes a little 
bit to scare them. 

1435
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,480
That's the same as like shouting
war cries. 

1436
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:05,760
It's just be intimidating he but
he also says things and retorts 

1437
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,360
and, you know, questions and 
taunts. 

1438
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,720
It's as far as it goes. 
It's nothing like berserk. 

1439
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,120
Theon, however, has a very 
interesting moment where he 

1440
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,320
thinks of how the Ironborn used 
to be. 

1441
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,920
So there is some evidence that 
maybe the Ironborn used to be 

1442
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,040
more like this. 
This is a really, really cool 

1443
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:26,400
quote. 
Here it is drunk Theon. 

1444
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,920
Decided watching him bellow, it 
was said that the Iron Man of 

1445
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:36,360
old had OFT been blood drunk in 
battle, so berserk that they 

1446
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:42,280
felt no pain and feared no foe. 
But this was a common ale drunk.

1447
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:47,680
The man in question is. 
Todrick who was fighting with 

1448
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:52,520
some of the other Raiders over a
loot and soon enough moments 

1449
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,520
later Theon killed him. 
Notice the use of the word 

1450
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,680
berserk there, which only comes 
up three times in the whole 

1451
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,480
series. 
The other one is the second one 

1452
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:03,040
is a mammoth Catching Fire 
during the battle of the wall 

1453
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:08,040
and just going off Ned. 
Ned Stark recalls quote Roberts 

1454
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,680
berserk valor in the melee 
during the tournament of 

1455
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,360
Harrenhal. 
Berserk valor during the melee. 

1456
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,920
The one time he thinks of Robert
is berserk. 

1457
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,000
It's the tournament of 
Harrenhal. 

1458
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:22,440
When when Rhaegar's there and 
Liana's there and interesting 

1459
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:25,520
yes. 
So it's the conceptual opposite 

1460
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,240
of extreme discipline. 
Like that's why I said in many 

1461
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,120
ways, Rome, Roman legions and 
the winter wolves were opposites

1462
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:34,280
because of this whole like 
extreme discipline versus this 

1463
01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:36,920
chaotic, wild, intimidating 
charge. 

1464
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,880
Not that Spartan legions or 
Roman legions or Persian 

1465
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,840
immortals or whatever are not 
intimidating, but they're 

1466
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,000
intimidating for kind of the 
opposite reason for their 

1467
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,800
extreme discipline, for their 
wow, these guys just no matter 

1468
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,720
what, they operate along this, 
this structure and this pre 

1469
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,480
designated lines of behavior and
and responses and nothing seems 

1470
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:56,600
to rattle them. 
Well, it's the winter wolves. 

1471
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,960
Nothing rattles them either, but
they're already chaotic and 

1472
01:15:59,960 --> 01:16:02,160
frenzied. 
And it's a similar, it's a 

1473
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,360
different kind of thing, right? 
Like it's the opposite, yet it's

1474
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,360
effective in its own way. 
By the way, this topic was 

1475
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:11,360
really funny and fun slash to do
surface level look UPS on 

1476
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:13,600
because it's just so 
overwhelmingly gamified and 

1477
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:17,920
omnipresent in fantasy like 
World of Warcraft, a Wolverine, 

1478
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,600
the marvel character, I mean a 
Lord of the rings. 

1479
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,440
Of course I mentioned that I 
already mentioned Bjorn the skin

1480
01:16:22,440 --> 01:16:24,680
changer, but it's just big in 
real life too. 

1481
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:28,800
Of course. 
I mean, it just comes up in real

1482
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:32,760
wars and real stories about 
humans in adrenaline filled 

1483
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,200
moments, like people doing 
things that they wouldn't 

1484
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:39,200
otherwise be able to do because 
of something the the extreme 

1485
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,440
circumstances of the moment. 
Whether it's a mother lifting a 

1486
01:16:41,440 --> 01:16:45,880
car off of their child or 
someone being shot a bunch of 

1487
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,360
times and keeping and and 
managing to keep going. 

1488
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,120
Or perhaps, I don't know, I'll 
be having your arm chopped off 

1489
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:52,800
and continuing to fight 
something like that. 

1490
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,520
Maybe. 
You know, it's funny. 

1491
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:59,480
Morgan Little AKA middle Little 
nearly killed Asha near Deepwood

1492
01:16:59,480 --> 01:17:02,240
Mott in in her POV chapter 
there, one of those POV chapters

1493
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:03,840
there. 
And after she's taken captive, 

1494
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:07,560
he comes to apologize, but not 
for nearly splitting her head 

1495
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:11,280
open, as she says, but for 
calling him, but because she 

1496
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:14,640
called or he called her the C 
word in his quote Battlelog. 

1497
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:17,280
They go, I'm I'm really sorry 
about calling you the C word. 

1498
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,040
Not for trying to kill you. 
I mean, it was a fair fight. 

1499
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,200
You, you're you're an ironborn 
and near deep wood Mott like 

1500
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,120
that's just fair game. 
But I there was no reason for me

1501
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:30,600
to call you that word. 
But again, like he's in some 

1502
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,480
state of mind that's different 
than he normally is. 

1503
01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:34,640
It's a really interesting 
moment. 

1504
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,760
I think it's telling like he's 
he's not himself, right. 

1505
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,800
He he's ashamed of that. 
He's not ashamed of trying to 

1506
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:43,240
kill this person. 
That was I don't know, you're an

1507
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,200
invader. 
You know, you're I'm here to 

1508
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,040
fight you, but there was no 
reason for me. 

1509
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,200
It's like kind of not like a 
nightly thing to be like 

1510
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,280
chivalrous even as you're trying
to kill somebody or had been 

1511
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:55,120
trying to kill them. 
Anyway, let's move on to the 

1512
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:59,720
battle where this whole battle 
lost blood drunk stuff is most 

1513
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,960
on display. 
The the reason that I was 

1514
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,720
inspired to do a little extra 
research on real world stuff and

1515
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:07,960
and talk about that for a minute
and it began with the wolves in 

1516
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:15,560
the Riverlands becoming wolves 
in the Reach, the Battle of 

1517
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,760
Tumbleton. 
Now of course history remembers 

1518
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,240
it as the first battle of 
Tumbleton, but I don't know that

1519
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,960
any Winter Wolves survived to 
hear that revised phrasing 

1520
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,960
because for them it was just the
1 battle. 

1521
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,520
Maybe as I said earlier, a 
couple of men did and but to 

1522
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,040
them there was only one battle 
at Tumbleton. 

1523
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,680
If you're a Winter Wolves, the 
second battle was just that was 

1524
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:38,320
a mop up. 
This was the one that mattered. 

1525
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:41,760
So they travelled S they'd 
beaten Kristen Cole. 

1526
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,720
The Riverlands was mostly in 
black hands at that point, but 

1527
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:48,080
the Reach was another matter. 
So they went S to where the 

1528
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,080
fighting was. 
Lord Orman was down there, of 

1529
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,720
course, and he had been making 
progress, especially because of 

1530
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:59,840
Tessarian and the general 
disorganization of the black 

1531
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:02,400
factions leadership in the South
around there. 

1532
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,560
It was definitely a hotbed of 
green activity. 

1533
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:11,080
So Orman had a big host and they
wanted to confront him and they 

1534
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,480
were going to meet at Tumbleton.
They were going to say, OK, 

1535
01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:15,000
we're going to get to Tumbleton 
first. 

1536
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,880
Orman's marching that direction.
We're going to combine the 

1537
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:21,680
Winter Wolves, Red Rob rivers, 
the Frey armies, plus those that

1538
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,720
other host. 
That was that it helped trap 

1539
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:27,760
Lord Leffert at the fish feed. 
You got Bigglestone and 

1540
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:29,760
Charlton, while some of those 
guys are dead, but their hosts 

1541
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:32,160
are still there. 
The the idea was to get to 

1542
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:36,680
Tumbleton and link up with Hugh 
Hammer and ulf White and a few 

1543
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,520
other stragglers from various 
battles. 

1544
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,120
That could combine to make a 
pretty substantial army to fight

1545
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:45,400
Lord Ormond. 
Now, the Greens only had 

1546
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:48,080
Tasarian to match that, which of
course she couldn't. 

1547
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:52,560
Tasarian could not match 
Vermithor, and a Silver Wing 

1548
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,600
probably couldn't match either 
of them individually, really. 

1549
01:19:55,440 --> 01:19:59,960
But as we know, the Dragon's 
involvement here was a little, 

1550
01:19:59,960 --> 01:20:05,080
well, to put it mildly, delayed.
And so the humans got to do 

1551
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,360
their thing first. 
And here's how it began. 

1552
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,360
The Hightower host came forward 
and were met. 

1553
01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:16,520
Quote. 6000 of the. 
Queen's men formed up to face 

1554
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:19,880
Lord Hightower in the field 
under the command of Sir 

1555
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:24,160
Garibald Grey. 
They fought bravely for a time, 

1556
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,680
but a withering reign of arrows 
from Lord Orman's Archers 

1557
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:32,920
thinned their ranks, and a 
thunderous charge by his heavy 

1558
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:37,320
horse broke them, sending the 
survivors running back toward 

1559
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:41,440
the town walls. 
There, Red robbed Rivers and his

1560
01:20:41,440 --> 01:20:45,640
Bowman stood, covering the 
retreat with their own longbows.

1561
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:50,880
When most of the survivors were 
safe inside the gates, Roddy the

1562
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:54,920
Ruin and his Winter Wolves 
sallied forth from a postern 

1563
01:20:54,920 --> 01:21:00,040
gate, screaming their terrifying
Northern war cries as they swept

1564
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,920
around the left flank of the 
attackers. 

1565
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:05,520
There's a. 
Big part of me that thinks this 

1566
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,800
was the plan all along. 
It doesn't actually make a lot 

1567
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:13,120
of sense to meet a larger army 
out in the field when you have a

1568
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,760
fortified town you can hold up 
in and fight them from there. 

1569
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,280
Unless you have support a trick 
planned which we would have 

1570
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:21,680
thought maybe Dragons were 
involved. 

1571
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,240
Like I would think the Dragons 
maybe that wouldn't have been a 

1572
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:29,360
trick, but we can probably guess
that Lord Orman knew to advance 

1573
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:31,120
and wasn't worried about the 
Dragons because the two 

1574
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:34,120
betrayers were already 
corrupted. 

1575
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,320
That the plan was already there.
Or perhaps they just said they 

1576
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:38,840
were going to join this battle 
and didn't. 

1577
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:43,120
They were expected to help the 
blacks in this battle but didn't

1578
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:48,240
and so but Which would mean 
though that Roddy the ruins move

1579
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:51,760
was something that he came up 
with in the moment which I'm not

1580
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:55,560
sure that works either. 
I feel like this was the plan 

1581
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:59,800
meaning this he volunteered his 
men at they had like they did to

1582
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:02,560
fish feed to make a surprise 
attack here. 

1583
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:04,160
Well, it wasn't a surprise 
attack at the fish feed. 

1584
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,040
They just volunteered to go 1st 
and they went first at the 

1585
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:09,960
butcher's ball as well. 
Now remember, of course, that an

1586
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,120
army is most vulnerable when it 
runs away. 

1587
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:16,920
So battle commanders know that. 
So an experienced commander can 

1588
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:19,960
manipulate the other commander 
into thinking that they're 

1589
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:22,080
running away and say, oh, 
they're running away, let's get 

1590
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:23,840
them. 
All of a sudden your men are 

1591
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,840
running to get them and they're 
no longer in battle array. 

1592
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:29,920
And the other guys turn around 
and say, ha ha, we weren't 

1593
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:31,880
actually running away. 
This is a fake. 

1594
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:33,960
Now we're going to get back into
position really quickly. 

1595
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:35,960
And suddenly you're not in 
position because you're chasing 

1596
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:37,720
after us and you're no longer in
formation. 

1597
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,200
So I think that might have been 
what happened here. 

1598
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:44,480
They they sent their men out to 
face this much larger army. 

1599
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:49,480
And then when they retreated, 
Orman's men rushed forward to 

1600
01:22:49,480 --> 01:22:53,360
try to cut them down, and that's
when their army lost cohesion. 

1601
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:55,280
And that's when Roddy's ruin 
made his move. 

1602
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,920
Once the Orman's army was 
stretched out, that's when he 

1603
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:01,320
was able to make his attack His 
army. 

1604
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:07,240
His army. 
Oh boy, are you? 

1605
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:08,960
Roderick rolled me there with 
that one. 

1606
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,120
Yes. 
So I think that might have been 

1607
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:13,600
what happened. 
Like luring the high towers 

1608
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:17,200
close to the walls was good for 
the from the perspective of red 

1609
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,640
rap rivers, just raining down 
arrows on them. 

1610
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,160
And that in turn would distract 
them and give them a little bit 

1611
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,520
of ah, we got to back up because
of these arrows coming at us. 

1612
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,400
And in that moment of 
distraction and needing to 

1613
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:30,320
reform their lines, that's when 
Roddy hit. 

1614
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:31,920
I just don't think that was an 
accident. 

1615
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,320
The timing was perfect. 
And yeah, he could have figured 

1616
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,360
that out on the fly. 
But I really think the idea of 

1617
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:41,080
sitting their smaller army out 
there to face the bigger 1 

1618
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,720
doesn't make any sense unless 
you have some sort of trick like

1619
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,080
this planned. 
And it worked, right? 

1620
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,160
This plan worked. 
It wouldn't have been anything 

1621
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:52,880
Orman expected because they were
winning. 

1622
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,840
The enemy was running away. 
And not only would they not 

1623
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,080
expect them to counter attack, 
they wouldn't expect a counter 

1624
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,240
attack to work. 
It's like, yeah, go ahead and 

1625
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:01,800
counter attack us. 
What are you going to do? 

1626
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:03,720
You know? 
But it actually did work. 

1627
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,800
Let's see what happens here. 
One reason it worked, one reason

1628
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:09,960
it was effective was that it it 
was a flank attack. 

1629
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,760
Orman's army is attacking 
forward and they were hit from 

1630
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,480
the side. 
They're not defending that way. 

1631
01:24:15,480 --> 01:24:18,200
They don't have let alone their 
discipline and their ranks. 

1632
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:21,280
They're not together anymore. 
They're just, you're just also 

1633
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,720
not expecting a suicidal charge.
You just don't plan for that. 

1634
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,240
You're like, OK, well, these are
Westerosi men. 

1635
01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:31,880
They want to live. 
They act like most people do, 

1636
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:33,320
You know, when they're scared, 
they run. 

1637
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:35,280
When they're well commanded, 
they fight. 

1638
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:37,640
You know, they're not. 
They're not thinking what if 

1639
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:40,760
these guys are suicide troops? 
Yeah, that doesn't matter your 

1640
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:42,680
thinking, right? 
Unless you already know about 

1641
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:43,560
it. 
But they didn't. 

1642
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:45,000
They didn't know who these guys 
were. 

1643
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,200
They didn't know the Winter 
Wolves were the Winter Wolves. 

1644
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:50,040
And they might never have heard 
of Roderick the Ruin this far 

1645
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:51,840
South. 
And even if they had, that 

1646
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:53,280
doesn't mean they know his 
reputation. 

1647
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:54,920
Exactly. 
That doesn't mean they know why 

1648
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,080
he's here this time. 
This wasn't a man that before 

1649
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:58,720
had engaged in a bunch of 
suicidal charges. 

1650
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,040
Probably because he probably 
wouldn't have lived so long if 

1651
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:02,840
he had. 
This is a man that came S to 

1652
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,720
die. 
He's acting differently than he 

1653
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:09,120
had in the past. 
And what's better, if you're 

1654
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,960
going to make a suicidal final 
charge, what is better than 

1655
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,160
taking out the highest value 
enemy you can? 

1656
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,440
The last charge, Yeah. 
Whatever they did to get ready, 

1657
01:25:20,440 --> 01:25:22,280
I don't think there's a lot of 
thinking involved. 

1658
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,080
Even if there was some strategy 
ahead of time at this point in 

1659
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:26,880
the battle, once they're 
charging, they're in the frenzy 

1660
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:28,440
mode. 
They're in the let's do it. 

1661
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:30,760
This is the last bit, the last 
charge. 

1662
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,560
What they had sought, it was 
pretty well set up for them. 

1663
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,520
The fish feed was a great battle
for them. 

1664
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,680
It was what they wanted, but it 
was a weaker foe, made dangerous

1665
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:46,520
not by true bravery, but being 
cornered like a a cornered rat. 

1666
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:49,920
That's what the Westerman were 
in that spot, the Butcher's 

1667
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:51,200
ball. 
As we said, it was butchery, not

1668
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,760
battle. 
This was an army bigger than 

1669
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:58,480
them, but not so big that they 
didn't have a chance. 

1670
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,760
So if you've been following my 
Greek series again, once again, 

1671
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:06,280
there's a stirring moment where 
the commander Epaminondas gets 

1672
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,680
in front of his army and holds 
up a snake and crushes its head 

1673
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,160
and says, look, the body dies. 
And when the when the head is 

1674
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:15,720
killed, so he the point being, 
kill the leaders and the army 

1675
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:20,480
becomes it doesn't do anything. 
It's it's easier to deal with. 

1676
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,120
And you all know, you guys know 
the Dance of the Dragons. 

1677
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:24,720
This isn't your first run 
through. 

1678
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:28,760
You know that when Orman dies, 
that is what happens. 

1679
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:32,680
The snake, it just eats, you 
know, it doesn't even sit there 

1680
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:35,200
helpless. 
It eats itself in this case. 

1681
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:37,600
But I'm getting a little ahead 
of myself here. 

1682
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,560
This is what Roddy the Ruin and 
the reigning Winter Wolves had 

1683
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:41,880
in mind. 
That was what they wanted. 

1684
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:45,240
They're like, the best possible 
result here would be to kill 

1685
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,080
their leadership and to have 
their army fall apart because 

1686
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,160
they don't have anyone good to 
step in and do do a good job. 

1687
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:54,520
They don't know whether or not 
there is such a person capable 

1688
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:57,760
of stepping in, so you better 
kill as many of their officers 

1689
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,720
as you can. 
To be sure, it would be such a 

1690
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:04,240
win to just kill a few of their 
guys, but the important guys and

1691
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,800
have their whole army fall apart
from bad leadership. 

1692
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:10,000
And again, that is what 
happened. 

1693
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:15,960
Sadly, the Winter Wolves didn't 
get to see the aftermath, but 

1694
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:19,840
hey, that's that's what happens 
when you are riding S to die for

1695
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:21,800
the Dragon Queen, isn't it? 
You don't get to, you don't get 

1696
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,720
to see the aftermath. 
You just have to do your best. 

1697
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:28,600
Here's what actually happened in
that epic moment. 

1698
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:32,960
Quote in the chaos that. 
Ensued, the Northmen fought 

1699
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:37,000
their way through 10 times their
own number to where Lord Ormond 

1700
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,960
Hightower sat his War Horse 
beneath King Aegon's golden 

1701
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:44,720
dragon and the banners of Old 
Town and the Hightower. 

1702
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:49,840
As the singers tell it, Lord 
Roderick was bloody from head to

1703
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:53,880
heel as he came on with 
splintered shield and cracked 

1704
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:58,760
helm, yet so drunk with battle 
that he did not even seem to 

1705
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:02,920
feel his wounds. 
SER Brendan Hightower, Lord 

1706
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:07,080
Ormond's cousin, put himself 
between the Northmen and his 

1707
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:11,360
Liege, taking off the ruins 
shield, arm at the shoulder with

1708
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:13,960
one terrible blow of his long 
axe. 

1709
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:19,680
Yet the savage Lord of Burrowton
fought on, slaying both SER 

1710
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,920
Brendan and Lord Ormond before 
he died. 

1711
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:28,080
Lord Hightower's banners toppled
and the townsfolk gave a great 

1712
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:31,160
cheer, thinking the tide of 
battle turned. 

1713
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,200
It's really quite. 
Epic it is perhaps one of the 

1714
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,560
best deaths in all of the Song 
of Ice and Fire. 

1715
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:39,720
It's a 9:50. 
I mean, maybe there's an 11 out 

1716
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:43,320
there, but who? 
Whatever rod he had left, 

1717
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:47,840
meaning strength and confidence 
and courage and energy, he 

1718
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:49,600
unleashed it in that moment. 
This was it. 

1719
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:50,840
This was the thing he waited 
for. 

1720
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:53,200
This was the the man he came to 
kill. 

1721
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:55,200
This is the best target he was 
ever going to find. 

1722
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:57,120
This was his shot to do his 
best. 

1723
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:01,360
He put everything into it. 
I suspect it was something like 

1724
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:06,040
Brendan's axe takes off his left
shoulder just and his counter 

1725
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,520
stroke takes out Brendan. 
You know he doesn't feel his arm

1726
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:11,600
coming off as he's at the same 
moment slashing down maybe gets 

1727
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,040
him in the neck or somewhere 
important enough to disable him 

1728
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:17,880
or kill him. 
And there's that line so drunk 

1729
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:21,080
with battle. 
Even a tear, a blow that takes a

1730
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:23,320
takes his arm off doesn't stop 
him. 

1731
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:26,680
That is unstoppable. 
I mean, it's about as literally 

1732
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:28,240
true as you'll get from a human 
being. 

1733
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,600
It is this is this is proves how
sincere his wish to die in 

1734
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:34,440
battle was. 
This wasn't just talk, this was 

1735
01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:38,760
a guy who went down swinging and
took down the biggest target, 

1736
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:41,920
biggest value foes he could in 
the process. 

1737
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,920
Again, this was the moment that 
one of the most shouted out 

1738
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:47,480
moments when fire blood came 
out. 

1739
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:49,920
Who else killed 2 Hightowers in 
this war? 

1740
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,400
No dragon rider did that, right?
Who did it? 

1741
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:55,280
I mean, unless you count them 
Hightower Targaryens. 

1742
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:57,320
But they're Targaryens, not 
Hightower people with 

1743
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,280
Hightower's last name. 
I don't think anyone killed 2. 

1744
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:03,200
Certainly not a span of two 
minutes. 

1745
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,120
So wow. 
I mean, there it was like, and 

1746
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:09,920
it's written down. 
The maestros wrote it down. 

1747
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:12,560
It's even immortalized in song 
in the South. 

1748
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:15,360
I'm sure in the North too. 
But the maestros are accounting 

1749
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:18,840
for its presence in the South. 
As the singers tell it, the line

1750
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:23,240
goes blood drunk, covered in 
blood, everything. 

1751
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:27,920
I suspect there was about 800 of
them left maybe give or take 

1752
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:29,920
'cause it says they fought 
through 10 times their number 

1753
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,160
roughly. 
You know, that's to be outright 

1754
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,280
because, you know, they, they 
lost two 2/3 of them were 

1755
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:38,720
wounded or killed at the fish 
feed, which would be about 1300,

1756
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:41,240
leaving about 700. 
But some of those wounded would 

1757
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:44,000
have recovered by then. 
And of course, as we said, some 

1758
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,360
of those wounded would have just
done everything to get on their 

1759
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:48,680
horse. 
This isn't, this isn't like I'm 

1760
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:50,160
not too, I'm not well enough for
this battle. 

1761
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:52,800
No, this is it. 
This is the last charge of the 

1762
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:53,800
winter wolves here. 
Y'all. 

1763
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:56,560
You better get on your horse or 
they're going to be telling the 

1764
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:58,320
story rather than being a part 
of it. 

1765
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:02,920
However, of course, what 
happened afterwards, it's well, 

1766
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:04,920
let me back up a second. 
This is, let me get one more 

1767
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,040
historical reference here. 
This actually reminds me a bit 

1768
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:10,000
of Alexander the Great's charge 
at the Battle of Gogamela where 

1769
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:15,640
he had way fewer men. 
But his front lines are here, 

1770
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,720
the Persians are here and he 
rides his horses. 

1771
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,560
He takes his companion cavalry 
just along his own front lines 

1772
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:22,680
this way. 
And the, the Persian King's 

1773
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:25,120
like, hey, keep an eye on that. 
So they, they send some guys to 

1774
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:27,840
kind of follow, kind of shadow 
them just walking. 

1775
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:29,920
All of a sudden Alexander's guys
cut back like this. 

1776
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:34,000
They, they charge the opposite 
direction right at Darius the 

1777
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,720
king now. 
So it's kind of similar. 

1778
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:39,840
They waited for an opening, 
stretched things out, even 

1779
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:40,880
though they were the smaller 
army. 

1780
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:44,360
They waited for an opportunity 
and created an opportunity to 

1781
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,680
expose the king, or in this 
case, Lord Hightower. 

1782
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:52,760
Now the difference being that 
Alexander and his men didn't 

1783
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,720
didn't want to die, and Dorias 
didn't try 'cause he ran away, 

1784
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:01,440
or Orman Hightower did not run 
away, and maybe he wished he had

1785
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:05,680
as he was dying with Roddy 
Ruin's sword in his throat or 

1786
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:08,920
wherever it was. 
So Alexander's play had more 

1787
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:10,960
long term effect. 
But the Winter Wolves, oh, the 

1788
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:13,200
short term. 
Oh, as they were. 

1789
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:14,440
They didn't care about the long 
term. 

1790
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:16,640
Not for themselves. 
They accomplished. 

1791
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:18,960
And well, if they did care about
the long term, it was getting 

1792
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:20,720
into songs and stories, which 
they definitely did. 

1793
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,880
There's no real comparison. 
These guys were trying to die. 

1794
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,560
They did it. 
And they took out men far more 

1795
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:29,840
important in terms of strategic 
importance. 

1796
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:32,360
War effort and all that. 
Yeah, they were. 

1797
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:35,600
They were a missile aimed at the
South and it landed in its 

1798
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,960
target. 
But of course, right after this,

1799
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:42,480
all the Dragons turned on 
Tumbleton, so it's easy for this

1800
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:44,840
to get. 
Could have been brushed under 

1801
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:46,200
the rug. 
It could have been forgotten 

1802
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:49,360
more easily. 
Given how much more heinous 

1803
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,760
things turned right after this. 
I don't think any of this is 

1804
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,000
what Lord Ormond planned. 
There's no way Lord Ormond 

1805
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,640
wanted to destroy Tumbleton. 
Why? 

1806
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:02,520
He captured it. 
It's in the Reach he destroyed 

1807
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,440
bitter bridge because of what 
happened to Malore, but he every

1808
01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:07,720
other target he captured along 
the way and there were several 

1809
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:09,640
he just flipped it. 
He's like, OK, well, this is 

1810
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,200
ours now. 
This is you swear to the to the 

1811
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:17,600
king and you're on our side now.
But after his death, the 

1812
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:20,360
leadership in his place. 
It was horrible, right. 

1813
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:27,520
There were drunken looting, 
abuse of the citizenry, abuse of

1814
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:31,440
the noble families too, which 
is, you know, people are people.

1815
01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:34,680
But this is out of the ordinary 
for high Lords to behave. 

1816
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:39,040
We got men like Bull Jon Roxon 
seizing the wives of other noble

1817
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:41,680
women and other men just taking 
them as battle prizes. 

1818
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:44,120
That's not normal for for 
Knights in the Reach. 

1819
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:47,400
So you kind of get the sense 
that Lord Orman was holding back

1820
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:50,520
a lot of savagery on his own 
side. 

1821
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:55,760
And once he was out of the way, 
the Greens Army, it just was 

1822
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,160
terrible, right, The way they 
behaved at Tumbleton. 

1823
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,080
And it indeed was like a snake 
with its head cut off. 

1824
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:03,320
They had no leadership. 
What leadership they did have 

1825
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:08,200
was people like Unwin Peak and 
Hobert Hightower, guys who were 

1826
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:11,400
soft or cruel or both. 
Just. 

1827
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:12,920
Yeah. 
And then, of course, the two 

1828
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:14,880
betrayers themselves. 
And that whole deal, which had 

1829
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,960
nothing to do with the Winter's 
Wolves, but certainly had a lot 

1830
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:21,040
to do with the scenario, was 
created by the Winter Wolves 

1831
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:24,360
killing Lord Armand. 
So that that domino effect, I 

1832
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:25,920
think is very much lost in the 
shovel. 

1833
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:27,960
No one actually ends up 
forgetting the Winter Wolves, 

1834
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:30,080
even though what happened to 
Tumbleton right after was far 

1835
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:33,400
more important. 
But I think that detail, the 

1836
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:36,040
fact that the Winter Wolves 
killed Lord Armand and the 

1837
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:40,200
effect of that huge, because 
everything fell apart for the 

1838
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:42,400
Greens at that point, their 
army, their huge host that was 

1839
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:45,840
going to take King's Landing. 
And there wasn't necessarily a a

1840
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:48,720
host to stop it. 
Only the death of the leadership

1841
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:49,800
killed it. 
It wasn't the death of the 

1842
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:53,040
soldiers. 
I mean, eventually it was once 

1843
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:54,480
the battle, second battle of 
Tumblin came. 

1844
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:56,440
But if they had had big good 
leadership, they wouldn't have 

1845
01:34:56,440 --> 01:34:58,200
still been at Tumbleton. 
They would have moved on the 

1846
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:01,040
capital by then. 
But Nope, they turned into the 

1847
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:05,600
caltrops and all that other 
business just turned on itself. 

1848
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:07,280
Yep. 
Instead of a headless snake, it 

1849
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:08,680
became a snake eating its own 
tail. 

1850
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:13,240
So yeah, I, I wonder too, like, 
what kind of conversations 

1851
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:17,080
happened inside Tumbleton? 
Was that how ulf? 

1852
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:21,960
And Hugh Hammer managed to hide 
their intentions? 

1853
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:23,760
They're like, oh, yeah, well, 
why aren't you? 

1854
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:26,720
Well, shouldn't we form our 
battle strategy around these two

1855
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:30,240
dragon riders? 
And, well, Rod to the room's 

1856
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:31,560
like, well, hang on, I got a 
plan. 

1857
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:33,600
You know, we're here to die. 
I want to do this. 

1858
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,640
And the dragon was like, yeah, 
let's do that. 

1859
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:39,840
Allow us to hang back to attack 
everybody once the battle's 

1860
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:42,400
done. 
So that would have maybe seemed 

1861
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:46,120
a lot more fishy. 
They're they're hanging back, if

1862
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:49,160
not for this other plan maybe 
that came forward to take out 

1863
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,400
Lord Orman. 
Or perhaps, like I said, they 

1864
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:54,480
just, they were, they indicated 
that they were going to join the

1865
01:35:54,480 --> 01:35:56,960
battle and then they just 
didn't, which Lord Orman may 

1866
01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:59,440
have known that going in because
someone had to corrupt those 

1867
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:03,560
guys in advance. 
And there's definitely accounts 

1868
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:08,400
of some of Lord Orman's men 
sneaking into the town ahead of 

1869
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,400
the battle to maybe do some 
mischief. 

1870
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:16,400
And some mischief did occur. 
So yeah, why Hugh and Alf didn't

1871
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:20,640
fight against Lord Ormond or how
all the chicanery that went on 

1872
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:24,560
in the background there, the 
intrigue is a bit outside the 

1873
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:27,440
scope of the Winter Wolves, but 
it's certainly something worth 

1874
01:36:27,440 --> 01:36:29,080
talking about. 
Another time, everything was 

1875
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:31,640
planned except for Lord Ormond's
death, and that changed. 

1876
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,520
Well, that changed everything. 
All those plans were destroyed 

1877
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:39,120
by that. 
So back it even went weird back 

1878
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:44,760
in Old Town, like Lord Ormond's 
15 year old son took over and he

1879
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:46,840
took his stepmother as his 
Paramore. 

1880
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:50,280
Sam Tarley, Samantha Tarley and 
Samantha Tarley would go on to 

1881
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:53,800
found the Bank of Old Town of 
all like whoa yeah, stuff 

1882
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:57,240
happened. 
So none of them, Lord Orman's 

1883
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:01,760
son Samantha Tarley or the 
Winter Wolves were there to see 

1884
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:03,960
what came next, let alone the 
rest of the war. 

1885
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:07,800
I do think they deserve extra 
credit for killing Lord Ormond, 

1886
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:11,200
given the effect it had, effect 
that maybe they couldn't have 

1887
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:12,960
even hoped for. 
But it really worked. 

1888
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:15,000
Again, I want to return to the 
possibility that there were 

1889
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,240
maybe a few survivors. 
You know, it wouldn't have made 

1890
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:20,600
the Evening News if just a few, 
maybe just one man survived. 

1891
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:24,120
Or someone, someone gets you 
charge into battle expecting to 

1892
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:26,000
die and you get knocked 
unconscious. 

1893
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:28,280
Like that could happen, right? 
You wake up and you're like, oh,

1894
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:30,040
I thought I was going to be in 
the afterlife. 

1895
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:32,640
I'm still on the battlefield. 
I thought I was going to die. 

1896
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:37,520
Well, I'm disappointed, but you 
still, you're not just going to 

1897
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:39,920
like slit your wrist at that 
moment, you know, it's not a 

1898
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:43,880
death and battle. 
You pick up the pieces and go, 

1899
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:46,000
well damn, I guess the gods 
didn't want me yet. 

1900
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:48,640
And you go tell your story. 
When you go back home, you go 

1901
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:50,360
back to the north. 
You bring your plunder because 

1902
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:53,040
you probably got some of that. 
Or maybe you just get killed in 

1903
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:57,400
the second battle of Tumbleton. 
The Muddy Mess was the final 

1904
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,440
battle of the Dance, one that 
featured no Northerners as far 

1905
01:38:00,440 --> 01:38:02,480
as we know. 
But Lord Cregan did come soon 

1906
01:38:02,480 --> 01:38:06,960
after, expecting more battles. 
He brought a big army of younger

1907
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:09,040
men. 
It was the Hour of the Wolf. 

1908
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,080
He declared his intent to 
assault several major 

1909
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:14,800
strongholds. 
This freaked everybody out. 

1910
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:18,520
Not only were they done with 
war, but they saw what 2000 

1911
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:22,040
Winter Wolves could do. 
Now he's got 10,000 younger and 

1912
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,120
fiercer. 
He claims they're more fierce. 

1913
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:26,520
I don't know if they really are,
but younger does have some 

1914
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:29,920
benefit, right? 
These would one day be a new 

1915
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:32,440
generation of winter wolves, 
those who survived that long. 

1916
01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:36,800
These are men who these are like
Wolflings, Winter Wolflings, 

1917
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:38,920
right? 
Never again would there be a war

1918
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,160
like this to fight in. 
So in that sense, they wouldn't 

1919
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,160
be the same, but there would be 
plenty more wars, plenty of 

1920
01:38:43,160 --> 01:38:46,760
chances to prove their medal, 
plenty of chances to live up to 

1921
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:49,040
the standard that these winter 
wolves set. 

1922
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:51,200
And it's a pretty big standard, 
right? 

1923
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:54,360
These guys continue to be 
mentioned, right? 

1924
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:58,080
They continue to be an example, 
a standard, the pack of wolves 

1925
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,640
that brought down not one, but 
two Hightowers in the midst of 

1926
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,640
their army. 
That's a statement that rings 

1927
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:05,080
out. 
People remember that. 

1928
01:39:05,480 --> 01:39:08,120
It doesn't really make the 
Hightowers look so bad. 

1929
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:10,640
I mean, it doesn't like them 
look good, that's for sure. 

1930
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:12,800
But it really it's more that it 
makes the winter Wolves look 

1931
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:14,240
great. 
It looks them, makes them look 

1932
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,880
amazing, even though they lost 
the battle, right? 

1933
01:39:16,920 --> 01:39:19,720
But they went S to die and they 
made sure everybody knew that 

1934
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:23,760
and they accomplished that goal.
And it wasn't easy for someone, 

1935
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:25,560
right? 
They ended it on their own 

1936
01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:29,960
terms, and many would never 
admit it in the South, I mean, 

1937
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:32,760
particularly the young, but they
would not. 

1938
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:35,480
You don't want to fight those 
guys, you know, like, yeah, 

1939
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:38,120
maybe I'd rather fight other 
Knights met at arms. 

1940
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:41,120
Like, I don't want to fight 
savage Northerners who keep 

1941
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:42,720
fighting after their arm is cut 
off. 

1942
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:45,240
Like as not again, they don't. 
You don't admit that to your 

1943
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:47,440
buddies necessarily. 
But, you know, when you're 

1944
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:50,840
sitting there at night and, 
like, I don't know if I want to 

1945
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:51,760
fight. 
Like, yeah, I think I would 

1946
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:57,040
rather fight someone that's not 
howling like a wolf and doesn't 

1947
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:00,400
seem to feel pain. 
And that's the value of these 

1948
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:05,000
men, one of the values of these 
men riding off to die the in the

1949
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:07,600
way they did. 
It makes everyone think the 

1950
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:09,240
North is full of dudes like 
that. 

1951
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,600
It really sends a message that, 
yeah, these are our old men. 

1952
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:14,640
What do you think our 
middle-aged and young men are 

1953
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:16,000
like? 
We're all of us together. 

1954
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,600
What do you think? 
What are you going to do when we

1955
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:19,320
bring a host that's got all of 
that? 

1956
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:22,840
It really makes people think 
twice about fighting the North. 

1957
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:25,840
It's part of how the North 
maintained its independence. 

1958
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:29,280
Stuff like this, you know, I 
mean, semi independence, right? 

1959
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,480
Cultural independence. 
How we say look what 2000 of our

1960
01:40:33,480 --> 01:40:36,200
old guys did. 
Imagine what 12,000 of a mixed 

1961
01:40:36,200 --> 01:40:39,680
force would do like, right? 
Here's an example of that coming

1962
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:42,280
up in conversation. 
It's a shutdown moment when you 

1963
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:44,560
bring this up. 
Here's a comment by Kermit Tully

1964
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:47,000
of all people. 
It prompted this reminder. 

1965
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:49,040
Here it is. 
Half your men will die. 

1966
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:52,800
Lord Stark, the Gray eyed wolf 
of Winterfell replied. 

1967
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:56,480
They died the day we marched. 
Boy, like the winter wolves. 

1968
01:40:56,480 --> 01:41:00,760
Before them, most of the men who
had marched S with Lord Craig 

1969
01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:04,400
and Stark did not expect to see 
their homes again. 

1970
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:06,360
Does that phrasing kind of 
imply? 

1971
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:08,800
A few of them did survive. 
After all, it's most of the men 

1972
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:10,840
who'd marched South of Lord 
Craig and did not expect, like, 

1973
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:12,960
the Winter Wolves before them. 
I don't know it. 

1974
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:14,440
It might imply if you did 
survive. 

1975
01:41:14,440 --> 01:41:16,560
Maybe it's like I said, some 
that were too injured to ride, 

1976
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:19,240
lost limbs, lost consciousness, 
who knows. 

1977
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:23,280
But either way, just dropping 
that name, reminding them like 

1978
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:25,800
they died, the daily March, boy,
that is not just talk. 

1979
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:28,400
It might have been talk when 
Roddy just said it. 

1980
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:29,800
But then they went out and 
proved it. 

1981
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:31,920
So now we're all the other guys 
are like, yeah, they really do 

1982
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:35,120
mean that when they say that. 
They were like, there was no 

1983
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:37,840
response. 
Kermit Tulli was like, OK, yeah,

1984
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:39,880
forgot I said anything. 
Fine, fine. 

1985
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:42,600
Have your have it your way. 
You know, wolf guy. 

1986
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:48,560
So these are guys who fought at 
the fish feed the butcher's 

1987
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,040
ball. 
And then they had their end at 

1988
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:55,200
at first Tumbleton and it's 3 
battles, but those ring loud. 

1989
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,080
They could have this is an 
example. 

1990
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:02,480
They get to be spoken of by men 
like Lord Stark and so many 

1991
01:42:02,480 --> 01:42:03,880
others. 
And just to remind people, yeah,

1992
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:07,040
don't winters wolves. 
Yeah, don't don't think think 

1993
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,120
twice about the North. 
I love it. 

1994
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:12,800
So many those few that did 
survive, if any boy would they 

1995
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:14,720
have some stories to tell and 
they would have had some money 

1996
01:42:14,720 --> 01:42:18,000
to to live out their days. 
I mean, that's maybe not so hard

1997
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:19,920
as it would have it would have 
first thought maybe they would 

1998
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:23,720
have preferred to die in battle.
But hey, if you didn't have, if 

1999
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:28,320
you're broke and you want to die
in battle and you didn't die but

2000
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:30,800
you came back with a lot of 
money, well, that's those worst 

2001
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:33,760
things. 
So again, as we said in the 

2002
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:37,160
beginning of this episode, this 
episode was made before season 3

2003
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:39,480
of House of the Dragon. 
So we know that the winners 

2004
01:42:39,480 --> 01:42:42,720
wolves made a brief appearance 
at the the winter wolves rather 

2005
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:45,000
made a brief appearance at the 
end of the second season just 

2006
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:46,880
marching. 
They don't that's a bit just 

2007
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:53,120
marching looking cool and 
fearsome and old, but we don't 

2008
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:54,960
actually have any TV show stuff 
to go on. 

2009
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:56,280
So we didn't we didn't go there 
here. 

2010
01:42:56,520 --> 01:42:59,200
Hopefully they do do a decent 
job of it and might have 

2011
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:02,840
inspired some talking points, 
even though I it's not obviously

2012
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:05,240
doesn't speak to book cannon. 
But sometimes they do things on 

2013
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:08,280
the show that make us think, Oh 
yeah, that might make sense for 

2014
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:10,920
them to have done or they they 
uncover an idea, you know, like 

2015
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:13,160
that It's it it gets out there. 
Yeah. 

2016
01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:15,720
I'd be interested to see for. 
Example if it was. 

2017
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:19,640
If it is depicted as a ploy by 
the Winter Wolves to lead them 

2018
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:21,320
there, you know what I mean. 
Some. 

2019
01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:23,280
Sort of brilliance in the 
moment. 

2020
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:24,360
Yeah. 
I'm very curious how they depict

2021
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:24,800
it. 
Right. 

2022
01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:25,320
Yeah. 
So. 

2023
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:28,520
And it's not going to be the 
final version if they do depict 

2024
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:30,600
it that way. 
But I do wonder what their 

2025
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:33,760
interpretation of fire and blood
is in that case. 

2026
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:35,920
So we'll see. 
And again, one more, one last 

2027
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:39,600
thing about Dragons, right? 
It's the winter wolves were like

2028
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:42,080
the Dragons. 
They went there to die. 

2029
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:44,720
When they go to, when they 
fight, they often end up dying 

2030
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:48,160
because they don't back down and
they don't have regard for their

2031
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:49,560
own lives. 
Almost all the Dragons were 

2032
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:53,160
killed in the Dance, and all the
winter wolves were, too. 

2033
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:55,360
It's like the same thing in that
regard. 

2034
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:58,680
The fiercest and most determined
killers and least concerned with

2035
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:01,680
consequences, and in 
consequences including death. 

2036
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:06,120
Yeah, it's certainly a big what 
if, what if, what if there had 

2037
01:44:06,120 --> 01:44:08,960
been a dragon on the ground for 
the winter rolls to charge at. 

2038
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:10,800
I I bet they would have taken 
that chance. 

2039
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:11,800
I don't know how it would have 
gone. 

2040
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:13,800
Might not have gone very might 
not have been such a glorious 

2041
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:16,040
end for them after all. 
But maybe a few of them would 

2042
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:17,720
have made it. 
I mean, think of the dragon pit.

2043
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:20,440
There was that guy, the burning 
knight who killed a dragon even 

2044
01:44:20,440 --> 01:44:23,800
as he was engulfed in flame. 
But yeah, maybe a singer's 

2045
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:25,920
embellishment. 
But so it was a lot of this and 

2046
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:27,680
it's it's a fun, makes for a 
good story regardless. 

2047
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,280
Those who stormed the dragon 
pit, I mean, those guys were 

2048
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:33,120
also blood drunk kind of maybe 
it was more of a religious 

2049
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:35,680
fervor brought on by the 
shepherd. 

2050
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:37,880
But it's, it's another example 
of this concept, right? 

2051
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:40,640
If it's, it's fascinating to me 
that people can be worked up 

2052
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:43,280
into that state, whether on 
purpose or whether it's through 

2053
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:45,840
someone else manipulating them 
or combination of both. 

2054
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:49,880
Religious belief, cultural 
touchstones, combinations of the

2055
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:52,600
above. 
The North remembers, to be sure.

2056
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:56,280
So we know that all the Winter 
Wolves deeds in the North will 

2057
01:44:56,280 --> 01:44:59,360
be spoken of quite a bit, 
whether in Taverns, around the 

2058
01:44:59,360 --> 01:45:02,320
Hearthfires, you name it, but 
also in the South, right? 

2059
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,240
The Dance is one of the most 
famous events in all of Westeros

2060
01:45:05,240 --> 01:45:06,560
history. 
In the Winter Wolves were an 

2061
01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:10,080
exceptional participant. 
Despite relatively small 

2062
01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:13,320
numbers, their impact was 
outsized. 

2063
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:17,120
And despite their age, their 
impact was outsized. 

2064
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:19,440
Yeah. 
So many major events that 

2065
01:45:19,440 --> 01:45:23,040
happened in the dance, drama and
conflict involving more famous 

2066
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:27,680
and higher born players. 
Yet these men, their story rings

2067
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:30,800
out as loud as those more famous
names. 

2068
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:32,920
They were fun. 
They were exciting. 

2069
01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:36,320
They're memorable. 
The trivia question was what was

2070
01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,720
the bloodiest land battle of the
Dance of the Dragons, the fish 

2071
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:42,560
feed, the first battle that the 
Winter Wolves participated in? 

2072
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:44,440
That's right. 
The bloodiest sea battle was, of

2073
01:45:44,440 --> 01:45:46,360
course, the Battle of the Gulf. 
That's why that has to be 

2074
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:50,680
delineated 'cause if you just 
say the bloodiest battle, I'm 

2075
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:56,280
not sure which it would be. 
Yeah, I mentioned our Ragnarok 

2076
01:45:56,280 --> 01:45:59,400
versus the Long Night episode. 
A lot of nice overlap with some 

2077
01:45:59,400 --> 01:46:02,520
Norse stuff and the Long Night 
and Northern culture. 

2078
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:06,560
That is our episode that is up 
for a Hugo Award this year. 

2079
01:46:06,560 --> 01:46:10,000
So, you know, once again, 
reminder to go do your voting on

2080
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:12,360
that. 
We are up in the category best 

2081
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:15,600
related work, not best fancast. 
We are not best fancast. 

2082
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:17,760
We are best related work. 
This episode in particular, 

2083
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:20,520
Ragnarok versus the Long Night, 
if you've already signed. 

2084
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:23,800
Up for the world science fiction
society or for Worldcon. 

2085
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:27,400
You can vote. 
You can also sign up now and you

2086
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:31,080
will still get the Hugo packet, 
which again incredible 

2087
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:34,000
incredible value. 
You can get Claire obscure like 

2088
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:38,560
the video game and game code for
that the the epubs of the best 

2089
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:41,920
novel and many other categories.
Not everything is in there 

2090
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:47,440
because it's as well as the the 
Hugo committee can do to get 

2091
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:50,000
everything provided. 
But it's, it's a, it's a lot 

2092
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:53,240
more than the $50 cost of 
membership that you get by a 

2093
01:46:53,240 --> 01:46:55,440
lot. 
Yeah, one game. 

2094
01:46:55,440 --> 01:46:57,440
Is $50, Yeah. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2095
01:46:57,480 --> 01:47:01,880
Yeah, like of course I also 
mentioned the Game of Thrones of

2096
01:47:01,880 --> 01:47:05,400
the end of Ancient Greece series
that has some up overlap in 

2097
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:08,440
terms of cultural stuff and and 
battle and politics. 

2098
01:47:08,720 --> 01:47:11,800
But mostly it's just a lot of 
fun and deep dive into into a 

2099
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:14,040
different portion of history. 
Of course, our Dance of the 

2100
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:18,200
Dragon series with radio esteros
is highly related to this and 

2101
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:20,880
our upcoming House of the Dragon
Season 3 coverage I mentioned 

2102
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:23,600
that will of course be something
coming in the future, a few 

2103
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,280
months from now. 
Depending on when you're 

2104
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:26,600
listening to this, it may 
already be out. 

2105
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:30,760
Thanks to you all for 
participating Live Today or for 

2106
01:47:30,760 --> 01:47:33,200
catching it later. 
Either way, we appreciate you 

2107
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:38,240
being part of our fandom, part 
of our shows, listenership, 

2108
01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:41,560
watching, watchingers, whatever 
term you prefer. 

2109
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:47,040
Thanks to Joey Townsend, Jesse 
Koval and Bran the Builder for 

2110
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:51,480
our various intro music and 
Michael Carfrott as well throw 

2111
01:47:51,480 --> 01:47:53,280
his name in there for the video 
intro stuff. 

2112
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:54,920
Bran and Michael have done a lot
for that. 

2113
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:57,840
We have now over the years built
up some really cool intros. 

2114
01:47:57,840 --> 01:47:59,720
We get to have a choice which 
intro to show. 

2115
01:47:59,720 --> 01:48:02,360
How fun is that? 
We love that. 

2116
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:05,560
Until next time, on behalf of a 
Shea, I'm Aziz. 

2117
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:08,120
We'll see you for more and you 
know what to do. 

2118
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:11,640
Until then, Valar Riritis.