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The region known as the Crown 
Lands was never actually a 

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Kingdom, despite being formed by
Westeros's first king. 

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It had been claimed the region 
itself that is but never 

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properly developed by a number 
of rulers over the preceding 

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eons, but it took Aegon and his 
sisters to finally maximize the 

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potential of the place. 
But before it became the Capital

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Region of the new 7 kingdoms, 
before the Iron Throne was 

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forged in dragon fire, the 
region that became the crown 

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lands was the land base of 
operations. 

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The jumping off point if you 
will, for the conquest. 

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Before a gun could March on 
Heron, before Vizania could 

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March on the veil before rain 
East and or East could March on 

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the storm lands and all the 
other places left to conquer. 

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They needed to control their 
immediate surroundings. 

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The Blackwater, Duscandale, 
Rosby, Stokeworth, Crack, Claw 

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Point. 
These are familiar names, and 

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they mattered a lot back then 
too, Perhaps more now, but still

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a lot back then. 
They were claimed by Argalac the

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arrogant the Storm King, and 
actually bent the need to Heron 

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the King of Isles and Rivers. 
As we discussed in the last 

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episode, it made sense to strike
at an area that no one had a 

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strong hold on. 
Agon, Vissenia, and Rainey 

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subjugated the area with a 
variety of interesting results. 

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King Argalac and King Heron 
mostly just allowed it to 

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happen, and that might have 
actually made a certain kind of 

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sense. 
Nor did they simply do nothing. 

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They didn't just twiddle their 
fingers. 

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They prepared for something you 
probably can't actually prepare 

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for, but they didn't know that. 
They didn't know what they were 

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up against. 
We'll discuss all that, why this

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might have been a smart plan or 
the best plan. 

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Best doesn't mean smart. 
Sometimes it's just all you've 

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got available. 
All that and more on this 

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episode of History of West Rose 
Podcast. 

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Hello and welcome everybody. 
We're here to talk about the 

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Crown lands. 
More about Aegon's conquest 

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We're getting set up for the 
destruction of Heron Hall. 

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We thought we'd get to that 
today, but as I was writing 

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well, the tale grew in the 
telling, as it so often does. 

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We actually change the title of 
this one in advance. 

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Probably won't be the only time 
that happens because of the 

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nature of our reread, but we'll 
always be very prepared and have

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lots of detail and nerdy fun for
you. 

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That, of course, will not 
change. 

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We've always been committed to 
that, and we'll maintain that 

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live streams are always at 3:00 
Eastern on YouTube if you want 

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to participate in the live chat 
and catch us while we're 

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recording. 
Otherwise, every video is on 

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YouTube and Spotify and audio 
only is available everywhere 

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that you listen to podcasts. 
It's Adfree if you listen on 

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Patreon, Sean. 
So I see you've got your Pulp 

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Fiction shirt there, the dancing
nondancing Shawns on your shirt.

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So you're like meta dancing 
there. 

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Yeah, this might be a more 
appropriate shirt for a Dance of

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Dragons episode. 
Red for the Targaryens. 

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And there will be some dragon 
dancing of his sorts. 

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Yeah. 
And you know, just like in A 

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Dance With Dragons, everyone 
ends up dead. 

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Pretty much like Pulp Fiction, 
you know, half the characters 

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end up dead. 
So it's kind of fitting. 

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Right. 
Yeah, Tommy Papas has like a 

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mash up. 
It's this shirt, but it's John 

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and Danny dancing in this sticky
post, which is so good cuz 

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remember how he stabs her with 
the yeah, the syringe in the 

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heart like John. 
That's a good point. 

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How about that? 
I never. 

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That's a good point. 
I'm wearing a Craghas Crab 

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Feeder mask shirt in honor of my
upcoming Dragon Con costumes. 

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Next week we won't have a new 
episode. 

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We'll play an older one and Shay
and I will be at Dragon Con. 

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And why don't we take two 
seconds here to talk about what 

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we're gonna dress as? 
Cuz most years of Dragon Con I 

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have not done more than one 
costume. 

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A lot of years I didn't do any 
costumes. 

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This year I've got four. 
Yeah, so it's a huge change from

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from my normal. 
I'm doing Alan as in Alan from 

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Barbie, which has nothing to do 
with the Song of Ice and Fire, 

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but the others are related. 
I'm doing 2 versions of crab 

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feeder. 
I'm doing the upscale crab 

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feeder which I have a suit for. 
I did that at Ice and fire con, 

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so it's pretty much the same 
one. 

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I'm gonna have a black fire 
tattoo and a few other things. 

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Some rings and just look fancy, 
like wearing a suit with the 

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mask. 
Then I'm gonna actually do the 

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regular crab feeder with the 
sores. 

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The grayscale Shea is helping me
do that. 

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Well, she's doing it. 
I'm not. 

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I'm just, yeah, you know, other 
people put it on me. 

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I can't really do it. 
And the mask. 

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It's pretty cool. 
Yeah, it looks really neat. 

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We had. 
We posted some on Instagram to 

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see what it would show, what it 
looked like, and yeah, it's 

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gonna look gnarly in a good way.
I saw those posts but I wasn't 

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sure what it was for. 
Yeah, yeah, crap feeder. 

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Now it. 
Yeah, I was using liquid latex 

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and body painting, face 
painting, all that. 

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And paper towels, it's, yeah, 
paper towels makes it look 

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really like they're. 
Rough tech. 

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Add stuff and you like, wrinkle 
it. 

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Anyways, it's really fun, but 
it'll take a while. 

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Yeah. 
And then last but not least, I'm

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doing better. 
Call Drogo. 

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Yes, we've, which I have done 
before, but it's like 10 years 

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ago. 
So this was a little different 

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than the first version. 
Similar. 

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Though I fully support that, you
can see my Better Call soul 

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poster behind me. 
Yeah, instead of the belt to 

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the, like, studded belt that 
he's got, I'm gonna have a bunch

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of neckties tied around my waist
instead to make a sash. 

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So that's the concession to 
office attire. 

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But we'll have the blue stripes 
on a suit jacket, yeah. 

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Yeah, well first I'll say my 
shirt. 

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Since we all started saying our 
shirts. 

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I'm wearing a Peep Show shirt, 
which is one of my favorite 

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shows, the British show. 
And it says I'm not sick, but 

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I'm not well. 
But anyway, so I have that shirt

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on for Dragon Gon itself. 
I have a lot of costumes. 

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First Thursday night I'm doing a
half version of Poison Ivy. 

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They have a Bunny hutch event 
there, so it's like Hugh 

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Hefner's like a smoking jacket 
and hat. 

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And stuff. 
Then I'm wearing my Expanse 

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jumpsuit on Friday. 
Sam Rosenberg. 

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And then changing out of that 
into an emo night outfit, 

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because my friend is doing an 
emo night party. 

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So I'm doing a Severa from the 
game Fire Emblem, and I designed

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like band tshirts for that. 
And then Saturday I'm doing the 

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character Yunaka, also from Fire
Emblem for the Nintendo shoot, 

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and then going to do Rainbow 
Barbie. 

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So that's like the cowgirl 
Barbie fit from the movie, but 

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with like, rainbow accents. 
And then Sunday, I'm doing a 

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rainbow variant of Spider Gwen 
from, you know, into the spider 

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verse across the spider verse 
and all that, but custom printed

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with a rainbow accents and 
that's gonna be really cool. 

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The Spider Gwen looks really 
good. 

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It looks so much like the real, 
like the actual Spider Gwen. 

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It's amazing. 
Yeah, yeah, I'm very, very 

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excited about that. 
If we wear a Spidey suit and 

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also we'll be going to the Game 
of Thrones shoot on Saturday and

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the World of Ice and. 
Fire shoot on Friday. 

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So lots of photos, yeah. 
So if you're going to Dragon Con

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and you want to find a place to 
find us, go to those shoots and 

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we'll be walking around mingling
and you can say hi. 

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I'm gonna get lots of photos and
video content for social media 

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with all the cosplay that I see.
Yeah, so it should be great. 

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Look out for some of that stuff 
next week. 

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I was tracking today was that. 
Yeah, I think it's six. 

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I think it's six different 
things. 

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I remember counting one. 
Maybe 5-5 different things, 

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actually, yeah. 
Yeah, they step it up a little 

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if it's easy doing. 
Yeah, yeah, you can let me catch

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up. 
Yeah, well shout out to our good

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friend Nina. 
Her notes are all over this 

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episode, as they so often are. 
The latest post on her blog, 

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which is good. 
Queen ally.tumblr.com. 

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That's 1L in alley. 
And yeah, the latest post is on 

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Dana and Baylor. 
Baylor The Blessed and Dana the 

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Defiant. 
Why were they set to be married?

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What caused that arrangement to 
happen? 

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It's a little unusual when you 
look at it cuz Baylor wasn't the

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first born son and Dana was, you
know the from a different branch

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and it kind of made sense that 
to do things differently. 

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Anyway, let Nina explain it 
better than I would. 

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She really likes responding to 
this particular type of question

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which is about the song of I 
suspire marriages and and why 

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and what it meant and then the 
the fallout or upside to all 

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those things. 
So it's very detailed post. 

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I enjoyed reading it and I 
suspect you will too. 

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So check it out. 
I want to give a shout out to 

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Lady Ray. 
One of our listeners made a 

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point in the the chat. 
We we we talked a lot about the 

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idea that there's probably more 
behind Aegon's plan than than is

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known or revealed. 
It's probably more than just I 

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have Dragons I'm taking over 
right. 

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We talked a lot about like the. 
The sort of plotting he would 

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have had to do to think about 
how the different leaders would 

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react to his attack. 
You know what he wants the state

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of the Westeros to be after he 
takes over the idea of how 

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taking down Heron first makes it
so the other dominoes will 

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probably fall to him. 
But she pointed out that there 

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some of this other planning. 
You know, I feel pretty 

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confident. 
Certainly happened. 

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And he had a master plan. 
It wasn't just, I guess today's 

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the day I'll take my Dragons. 
And he probably was playing for 

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a long time. 
Time things just right. 

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Had some chess pieces moves in 
advance plotted out how it was 

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going to go, and she suggested 
that even if some of those plans

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might have been more known or 
even public, or could have been 

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spied on or or guest at or 
whatever, that no one was paying

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attention to him, they didn't 
consider him a real threat. 

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00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,400
And so no one was writing this 
down, right? 

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There were there were no 
maesters taking note right until

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after he's there with Dragons 
beating here. 

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And then everyone's like, oh. 
All right. 

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We need to keep record of this 
for history. 

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00:10:50,660 --> 00:10:52,820
But there probably would have 
been, if they had been keeping 

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record all along, better 
evidence of how well he had this

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00:10:55,660 --> 00:10:57,060
all planned. 
I'm not sure I agree with that. 

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00:10:57,060 --> 00:10:59,180
I think it's just that the 
sources were probably not 

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maintained or not lost or that 
George didn't write them as the 

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obviously, obviously the rain, 
the main thing. 

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00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:05,180
But we don't have to, we can 
ignore the the real world 

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explanation because the maesters
do record almost everything. 

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00:11:07,820 --> 00:11:08,820
Like that's part of what they 
do. 

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00:11:08,820 --> 00:11:12,300
We we we know that. 
I mean, some of them are absurd 

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00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:13,780
about it. 
Like we have that example of the

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maester on the wall that 
recorded every time the Lord 

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00:11:15,860 --> 00:11:19,960
Commander woke up and use the 
bathroom and was just like 

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extremely, you know, I think 
that maybe the notes were, maybe

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these notes were taken, maybe 
Agon didn't want them written 

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00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,280
down. 
There's other explanations. 

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00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,400
I think it's worth exploring. 
I'm not sure. 

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00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,240
It's simply that the maestro 
didn't think it was noteworthy, 

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00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,480
though. 
I'm skeptical that they would 

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00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,800
decide not to write down 
something as important as this 

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00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,440
if they're writing down things 
like when people go to the 

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00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,920
bathroom. 
Well they may have also not had 

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00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,680
access to what he's plus. 
No he had a he had a maester, 

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00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:47,160
so. 
Oh did he Yeah. 

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00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,840
All the Lords of Westeros have 
baisters. 

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00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:49,720
Yeah. 
Always. 

221
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,000
Yeah. 
That's not a new thing. 

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00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,440
Every Lord and every if you're 
it's kind of like a sign of your

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00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,360
status if you're high enough 
ranked Lord to get a maester. 

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00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,840
Well you're high enough ranked 
Lord. 

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00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,080
But yeah, I got of course was 
yeah, they had, they had 

226
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,800
maesters for sure. 
Do we know his name Where they 

227
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,120
said, I mean there were been 
lots of made. 

228
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,800
Well, yeah, all maesters come 
from the Citadel, so yes, it 

229
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,860
would have come from there. 
But no, we don't know their, we 

230
00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:13,220
don't know their names. 
Like I wonder if the Citadel 

231
00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:15,820
chose, someone said, hey you go 
check out this Aagon guy. 

232
00:12:15,820 --> 00:12:17,740
Or if Aagon said hey Citadel 
give me a Meister. 

233
00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:19,500
Now I wonder what the. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

234
00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:21,540
I would wonder about that too. 
You'd think that they might 

235
00:12:21,540 --> 00:12:24,660
choose carefully because of it's
an unusual situation. 

236
00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:27,380
And I don't know and there would
have been several because 

237
00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:30,620
obviously there's 100 years of 
Targaryens before. 

238
00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:34,980
So there would have been 
probably a maister for ain't R 

239
00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:37,620
the Exile, but maybe not. 
Maybe they there would have been

240
00:12:37,620 --> 00:12:39,380
a point at which that started 
and it may not have started 

241
00:12:39,380 --> 00:12:41,540
right away. 
But I assume by the time Agon it

242
00:12:41,540 --> 00:12:43,420
would have because Agon had a 
maister with him. 

243
00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:45,100
For example Agon has a maister 
with him. 

244
00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:49,340
When he treats with Herron it, 
it even says both had maisters. 

245
00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:52,300
So we have the exact words 
written, you know. 

246
00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:56,620
So yeah it's but either way you 
know, my opinion aside it is a 

247
00:12:56,620 --> 00:12:58,420
super interesting topic. 
Like, what other things would 

248
00:12:58,420 --> 00:13:00,940
they observed and and would Agon
have kept? 

249
00:13:02,020 --> 00:13:03,380
Yeah, he might not have trusted 
the maesters. 

250
00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:05,980
Like the system is new to him. 
Like a lot of Westerosi Lords 

251
00:13:05,980 --> 00:13:07,100
are used to having maesters 
around. 

252
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:10,460
But this might not be something 
they're used to and they might 

253
00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:12,700
be skeptical of, like, well, is 
he telling the Citadel? 

254
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:15,100
Like, I don't know. 
Maybe we don't want him to know 

255
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,540
some of these things, so. 
The maester wasn't in the inner 

256
00:13:17,540 --> 00:13:19,820
circle. 
Yeah. 

257
00:13:19,820 --> 00:13:22,100
Do they trust him or not? 
You know who's he sending 

258
00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:25,100
letters to? 
So, yeah, great question, Lady 

259
00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:27,260
Ray. 
Great point, great discussion 

260
00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:29,590
tidbit there. 
Throughout the episode we'll 

261
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:32,430
encounter topics that we've done
full episodes on and we'll point

262
00:13:32,430 --> 00:13:35,110
them out as we go along and at 
the end, so you can check those 

263
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:37,670
out if you want to stay immersed
in Westeros and the wonderful 

264
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:41,390
world of A Song of Ice Fire. 
That list is at the end, along 

265
00:13:41,390 --> 00:13:43,470
with this answer to the trivia 
question. 

266
00:13:44,270 --> 00:13:46,310
In Fire and Blood, we meet the 
Muppet Tullys. 

267
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:49,150
But way back in the Game of 
Thrones, George R Martin gave us

268
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:52,110
the Three Stooges. 
They were men in arms. 

269
00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:56,840
For what house? 
Yes, three men named after the 

270
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,040
Three Stooges. 
It's not their exact names. 

271
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,280
They're not Larry, Moe, and 
Curly. 

272
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,480
They are similarly named. 
What house were they sworn to? 

273
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,600
I went for George to name Atolly
Muppa Muppettolly. 

274
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,680
That'd be great. 
The time came for hostility to 

275
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,240
begin. 
Agon had built the Agon Fort. 

276
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,730
Rather his people did. 
He did probably didn't 

277
00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:28,250
participate in the construction 
at all, and they established 

278
00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:31,090
their beachhead and and got the 
submission of a couple of local 

279
00:14:31,090 --> 00:14:34,330
Lords. 
But most of the big ones came 

280
00:14:34,330 --> 00:14:36,850
shortly after and no one 
interfered with them. 

281
00:14:36,850 --> 00:14:39,850
We pointed that out last time. 
Maybe that was a big mistake, 

282
00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:41,330
but maybe it made a certain kind
of sense. 

283
00:14:42,290 --> 00:14:49,760
They could have ganged up on the
Targaryens, but you know, better

284
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,840
late than never or not. 
Nope, never. 

285
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,160
It never is. 
What happened? 

286
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,520
Basically so unmolested. 
They just went about building 

287
00:14:58,520 --> 00:14:59,880
this. 
What would be called the Crown 

288
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:01,400
Lands? 
We don't know when it was named 

289
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,320
the Crown Lands. 
We don't know when the final, 

290
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,800
like legal paperwork was drawn 
up to define it the way it 

291
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,320
finally is. 
So we don't really have that. 

292
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,220
We assume that Mostly was dealt 
with early in Aegon's reign, but

293
00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:17,100
we here's where it started to be
formed, and that will be the 

294
00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:20,020
most of the focus today. 
We might get into the beginnings

295
00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:23,980
of the conflict directly with 
Heron, but even these vassals 

296
00:15:23,980 --> 00:15:29,180
that immediately surrendered, 
well, they were. 

297
00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:32,580
Most of them were Heron's 
Vasals, and they just went over 

298
00:15:32,580 --> 00:15:36,020
to Aegon without a fight, or 
without any sort of or with very

299
00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:37,500
little fight. 
In the case of Rainy's going to 

300
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:39,460
Rosby, there literally was no 
fight. 

301
00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:41,460
They just said, okay, I see your
dragon. 

302
00:15:42,410 --> 00:15:45,570
We already knew you were coming,
is probable like they probably 

303
00:15:45,610 --> 00:15:49,810
knew about the landing and had 
obviously heard about the claim 

304
00:15:49,810 --> 00:15:51,930
that Aegon sent the Ravens out. 
The word would have spread to 

305
00:15:51,930 --> 00:15:55,090
them by now, so they were 
probably ready for this. 

306
00:15:55,530 --> 00:15:57,490
Vicenia went to Stoke, where I 
think I mentioned this one last 

307
00:15:57,490 --> 00:15:59,810
time real briefly. 
They shot a few crossbow bolts 

308
00:15:59,810 --> 00:16:03,450
at her, maybe just so they could
say they had done something to 

309
00:16:03,450 --> 00:16:05,210
resist. 
And Vicenia set the roof on 

310
00:16:05,210 --> 00:16:06,450
fire. 
And they're like, okay, That's 

311
00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:07,570
it. 
We're done resisting. 

312
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,280
Meanwhile, what they probably 
should have done much sooner and

313
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,600
with far more allies finally 
happened. 

314
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,320
Someone finally took action and 
tried to stop. 

315
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,040
Aegon quote. 
The conquerors first true test 

316
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,720
came from Lord Darklin of 
Duskandale and Lord Mooton of 

317
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,280
Maidenpool, who joined their 
power and marched S with 3000 

318
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,120
men to drive the invaders back 
into the sea. 

319
00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:39,310
Aegon sent Oris Baratheon out to
attack them on the March whilst 

320
00:16:39,310 --> 00:16:42,270
he descended on them from above 
with the Black Dread. 

321
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:46,470
Both Lords were slain in the 
onesided battle that followed. 

322
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:50,750
Darkland's son and Mooten's 
brother thereafter yielded up 

323
00:16:50,750 --> 00:16:54,390
their castles and swore their 
swords to house Targaryen. 

324
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,480
So unlike most battles of the 
conquest, this one is definitely

325
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,320
under described. 
The field of Fire is pretty well

326
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:01,640
described. 
What happens at Heron Hall is 

327
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,040
pretty well described that that 
last storm is extremely well 

328
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,760
described. 
There isn't much of A battle in 

329
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,160
the Veil, but what's happens is 
well described. 

330
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,640
So it's not what makes the 
conquest interesting, these a 

331
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,599
lot of these battles because 
well, how the Dragons were used 

332
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,119
is interesting because we might 
can see them later. 

333
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,760
But some of these battles are, 
as it says, kind of 1 sided and 

334
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,180
that, well, in some ways that 
might make the maesters or 

335
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:29,540
George think it's not as 
interesting. 

336
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:32,340
I kind of disagree. 
I kind of wonder like what it's 

337
00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:35,940
like put yourself in the place 
of one of these foot soldiers 

338
00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:38,060
whose Lords like you wish you 
fought for. 

339
00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:40,780
Lord Stokeworth who gave up 
after a few shots of crossbow 

340
00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:42,980
bullets. 
You're like you don't want to go

341
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:44,820
down with this ship. 
This guy's like, yeah let's 

342
00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:47,180
let's fight the dragon. 
Let's do it. 

343
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:51,940
Let's be brave and stop these 
Targaryens and yeah. 

344
00:17:52,380 --> 00:17:54,500
Reven. 
Argalac who just goes out on his

345
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:57,580
own like, I'll just fight you 
myself rather than sending all 

346
00:17:57,580 --> 00:17:59,420
those armies into their suicidal
death. 

347
00:17:59,420 --> 00:18:01,420
Yeah, Argalac at least he's 
like, well, I want a death. 

348
00:18:01,620 --> 00:18:03,700
Like he knows he's lost and he 
wants a noble death. 

349
00:18:03,740 --> 00:18:07,340
Like what are these guys doing? 
I don't quite get like they 

350
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:09,020
haven't known. 
They didn't know they'd lost 

351
00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:11,340
like they would have known, 
maybe knew as soon as their army

352
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:13,100
lines were drawn up and they saw
Valerian. 

353
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,220
But it's not too late to 
surrender at that point. 

354
00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:17,660
Say never mind. 
Like Agon would would raise them

355
00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:20,540
back up and probably let them 
keep their seats, but they were 

356
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:22,900
just. 
I don't know if they really 

357
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,620
feared Heron. 
They they didn't want to. 

358
00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:29,620
They thought that this upstart 
wouldn't succeed and they if 

359
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:32,900
they didn't do their duty as 
vassals that Heron would punish 

360
00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:34,900
them. 
And Heron's pretty nasty, like 

361
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:38,220
he's cruel and and tyrannical. 
So I can understand that being 

362
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,700
the primary motivation here. 
Like, I don't think it was just 

363
00:18:42,260 --> 00:18:44,380
bravado and bluster. 
I think it was. 

364
00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:50,040
They were caught between Hair in
the Black and the black dread. 

365
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,800
And I guess they chose wrong, 
because yeah. 

366
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,400
I wonder, you know, we, we 
talked a little in the past 

367
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,720
about the idea that people might
not have really understood the 

368
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,840
nature of the dragon, right? 
And so some people might 

369
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,440
literally just think it's a myth
or a rumor that there's not 

370
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,960
really a dragon. 
If there is, maybe they're just 

371
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,480
a little dragon and not that big
deal. 

372
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,680
They can shoot it down, even a 
big dragon, even when they see 

373
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,770
it. 
They might not really believe 

374
00:19:17,770 --> 00:19:21,170
that it breathes fire like. 
Like, even like in a real world,

375
00:19:21,170 --> 00:19:24,570
something like a pterodactyl 
seems almost silly, You know, 

376
00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:27,130
like it just to see it flying 
around in modern times. 

377
00:19:27,130 --> 00:19:29,850
But we know they're real. 
But what if it also breathes 

378
00:19:29,850 --> 00:19:32,370
fire, right? 
Like, no, it doesn't really 

379
00:19:32,370 --> 00:19:35,090
breathe fire. 
But then it does, and then 

380
00:19:35,090 --> 00:19:36,930
you're all dead. 
So, you know, I I wonder if 

381
00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:39,970
that's 11 aspect of what they 
were underestimating or does it 

382
00:19:39,970 --> 00:19:42,250
like breathe a little bit of 
fire that's not that 

383
00:19:42,250 --> 00:19:44,330
threatening, you know, OK. 
It can get going. 

384
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:46,490
Its breath is really hot. 
It's not actually fire. 

385
00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:47,410
Yeah, yeah. 
You can see how these things 

386
00:19:47,410 --> 00:19:49,050
are. 
Exactly how far the blast is, 

387
00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:52,450
how hot it is, how long, how 
sustained it can be and so on. 

388
00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:53,890
Yeah, or if they knew more about
it. 

389
00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:56,610
If you look at the flip side of 
that coin, and they actually 

390
00:19:56,650 --> 00:19:59,130
have some knowledge of Dragons, 
they might think, well the a 

391
00:19:59,130 --> 00:20:01,450
dragon isn't going to be very 
useful. 

392
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,800
In a smaller conflict, whenever 
all the men are close together, 

393
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,240
like how does Balerian tell 
friend from foe? 

394
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,880
Balerian doesn't recognize 
banners. 

395
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,440
It's one thing at the field of 
fire when the enemy lines are 

396
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,280
just rows and rows and rows and 
rows deep. 

397
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,280
When it's 30,000 troops versus 
3000, it's a little easy for the

398
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,000
Dragon. 
Just go get all those 30,000. 

399
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,400
Or if you're just burning the 
castle, that's also pretty 

400
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,360
straightforward for Heron Hall 
and some and a lot of these 

401
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,240
castles in Dorn. 
But here, yeah, you've got 

402
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,210
relatively small armies. 
We know Agon didn't have very 

403
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:38,890
many men yet he had 15102 
thousand, maybe 3000 at most. 

404
00:20:39,450 --> 00:20:40,730
Not. 
Which is not that large. 

405
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:43,290
Of course, for an instrument of 
conquest it leaves much to be 

406
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:45,210
desired. 
But Valerian of course by 

407
00:20:45,210 --> 00:20:47,970
himself does a lot. 
So if we're imagining it, like 

408
00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:49,330
who? 
Imagine being a foot soldier. 

409
00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:52,370
So you, even if they, even if 
the Lords know a lot about the 

410
00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:55,410
Dragons or regardless of their 
knowledge of the Dragons, the 

411
00:20:55,410 --> 00:20:58,230
foot, the foot soldiers probably
know Jack. 

412
00:20:58,750 --> 00:21:01,190
So they're being called up to 
fight. 

413
00:21:01,190 --> 00:21:03,190
They're like, what's going on? 
You know, we're fighting against

414
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:05,590
this, this Dragon Lord guy. 
What's that all about? 

415
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:08,030
Like that sounds a little 
intimidating, but maybe I don't 

416
00:21:08,030 --> 00:21:10,270
know what to expect. 
And they get there and they see 

417
00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:11,590
the soldiers and they're like 
okay. 

418
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:13,390
We outnumber them, we're doing 
good. 

419
00:21:13,390 --> 00:21:16,390
And then all of a sudden this 
shadow passes over. 

420
00:21:16,790 --> 00:21:20,950
Maybe it comes behind them and 
it goes straight for the Lord on

421
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:23,670
his horse sitting behind, you 
know, on the on a hill. 

422
00:21:23,670 --> 00:21:27,710
Or maybe it lands and does 
battle on the ground like 

423
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:32,030
Moraxis does at the last storm. 
I don't know. 

424
00:21:32,030 --> 00:21:38,470
But those men were brave if they
didn't run away immediately, and

425
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:41,750
this is the only time Agon and 
Ori's fought together in the 

426
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:43,750
same battle that we know of. 
There may have been some smaller

427
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:46,950
skirmish that was so small that 
it didn't even bear mention. 

428
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:49,430
But yeah, as far as we know, 
this is the only time they 

429
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:51,510
fought together. 
They trained together as boys. 

430
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:54,680
So it might have been kind of a 
neat little moment afterwards. 

431
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,080
Like, yeah, that's what we 
trained for. 

432
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,280
You know, we actually did it for
real this time. 

433
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,800
So it would have been a testing 
ground, though, for as much as 

434
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,200
the the army was effective, as 
much as we knew Balerian would 

435
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,040
be effective, as much as Agon 
and sisters knew that, they 

436
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,920
still didn't know exactly how 
they hadn't. 

437
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,560
You know, until you actually do 
it, you don't know exactly how 

438
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,560
it's going to go. 
Sure, they knew they had the 

439
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,650
advantage, but seeing Balerian 
in the midst of all these 

440
00:22:22,650 --> 00:22:25,810
troops, or whatever it was he 
did, it would have been the 

441
00:22:25,810 --> 00:22:29,930
first time that Aegon led his 
troops and led troops of his own

442
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:32,170
in Westeros. 
He had seen what Valerian could 

443
00:22:32,170 --> 00:22:35,530
do in the war against Valantis 
during the century of Blood. 

444
00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:38,430
Although as far as we know that 
was just burning ships. 

445
00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:40,710
I don't know if he had any 
conflicts on land. 

446
00:22:40,790 --> 00:22:43,830
It's so maybe not so maybe this 
was a new in a different way 

447
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:45,710
that sense too. 
So maybe the first time he took 

448
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:48,510
on infantry and any sort of 
sizable numbers which is pretty 

449
00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:49,870
significant, he would have 
learned from that. 

450
00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:52,070
He would it would have affected 
the future plans might have 

451
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:53,710
given him more confidence or he 
might have just been so 

452
00:22:53,710 --> 00:22:55,710
confident in the 1st place. 
He's like Yep that's exactly 

453
00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:58,150
what I expected. 
We won pretty easily. 

454
00:22:58,150 --> 00:23:01,110
That's how it's going to 
continue to go, and he just the 

455
00:23:01,110 --> 00:23:05,810
ball just keeps rolling with 
that supreme and well deserved 

456
00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:09,850
confidence, I suppose, Nina 
adds. 

457
00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:13,370
This battle may have also 
represented potential drawbacks 

458
00:23:13,370 --> 00:23:15,530
to dracontic combat. 
Dragons are incredibly effective

459
00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:18,250
at wiping out large swaths of 
enemies, but with Aegon's own 

460
00:23:18,250 --> 00:23:21,850
troops under Auris on the 
ground, he may have burned some 

461
00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:25,010
of his own men. 
He may have Blair and his tail 

462
00:23:25,010 --> 00:23:26,570
may have hit some of his own 
people. 

463
00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:28,170
This may have been part of the 
test. 

464
00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:30,250
This may have been why it wasn't
written about that much. 

465
00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:32,570
Maybe Agon didn't want it 
written about that he actually 

466
00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:35,130
killed some of his own men while
first learning how to use 

467
00:23:35,130 --> 00:23:37,370
Balerian and ground combat. 
That would be a thing to kind of

468
00:23:37,890 --> 00:23:39,730
keep on the down low. 
That's not exactly going to 

469
00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:44,370
bring men to your side. 
That's still an issue in Modern 

470
00:23:44,370 --> 00:23:45,890
Warfare. 
It's friendly. 

471
00:23:45,890 --> 00:23:48,890
Fire like and and a lot of times
you think of that as, you know, 

472
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:51,610
literally fire in this place. 
Yeah, yeah. 

473
00:23:52,090 --> 00:23:55,230
You know, sometimes it's like. 
One soldier with his rifle 

474
00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:59,150
shooting down range, and there's
other allies also down range and

475
00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:02,830
he may can't see or distinguish 
good or bad or whatever, but 

476
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:04,910
more often than not it comes 
from like artillery and 

477
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:08,070
aircraft, stuff like that, just 
just blowing up the whole area 

478
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:12,430
that there were troops in. 
Even with like all the modern 

479
00:24:12,670 --> 00:24:15,710
technology, satellite imagery, 
everything, we still do that 

480
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:17,630
sometimes. 
Like just imagine flying around 

481
00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:19,110
in a dragon. 
He's got no way to talk to the 

482
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:20,990
commander on the ground. 
The commander's on the ground 

483
00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:23,290
have no way to. 
Let him know where the positions

484
00:24:23,290 --> 00:24:24,690
are. 
So I imagine that would have 

485
00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:27,250
been an issue. 
Some amount of either holding 

486
00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:30,090
back or figuring it out or or 
just killing some people 

487
00:24:30,090 --> 00:24:32,130
accidentally. 
It's got to have been something 

488
00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:35,570
that they were working on that 
you might not have been very 

489
00:24:35,570 --> 00:24:37,730
public with the Messrs about 
Nina suggestion. 

490
00:24:37,770 --> 00:24:39,210
The one of her suggestions here 
is good. 

491
00:24:39,210 --> 00:24:41,730
It's like if a gun was being 
very cautious, he might have 

492
00:24:41,730 --> 00:24:44,490
just planned to use Blair and 
just to scare them, just fly 

493
00:24:44,490 --> 00:24:47,170
them over the battle lines and 
the other men are going to be 

494
00:24:47,170 --> 00:24:52,700
like holy and they just run 
because it's way bigger and more

495
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:55,460
intimidating than they expected.
Like the stories are true. 

496
00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:58,460
It actually is large enough to 
swallow an oryx hole or 

497
00:24:58,460 --> 00:25:00,500
whatever. 
Like, Oh my God, I thought that 

498
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,340
was just a story. 
And no, look at that thing, its 

499
00:25:03,340 --> 00:25:06,670
mouth is that large. 
Yeah, maybe even just blasting 

500
00:25:06,670 --> 00:25:08,950
fire that doesn't hit anyone. 
Just shooting it over. 

501
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:10,990
Just look what's coming. 
Yeah, just firing a bullet in 

502
00:25:10,990 --> 00:25:12,190
the air. 
If you're firing your gun in the

503
00:25:12,190 --> 00:25:14,710
air and no one else has a gun, 
that's very intimidating. 

504
00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:17,390
Everyone's like, all right, this
person's in charge now. 

505
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:19,710
Or if they never even heard of a
gun before, like what the hell 

506
00:25:19,710 --> 00:25:23,270
is that thing? 
You know, like, wow, So this is 

507
00:25:23,470 --> 00:25:27,230
more like a large, you know, 
aircraft platform mount with a 

508
00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:30,990
huge gun mounted on it rather 
than just a gun so heavily 

509
00:25:30,990 --> 00:25:33,590
armored flying machine. 
Yeah, just unbelievable. 

510
00:25:34,550 --> 00:25:40,570
So it will have been really 
interesting for them to make use

511
00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:42,810
of what they learned in this 
first incursion. 

512
00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:45,410
It's almost like a good for them
to have like a smaller testing 

513
00:25:45,410 --> 00:25:47,410
battle before they get to some 
real ones. 

514
00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:51,130
Another thing they could have 
just done is say Blair could 

515
00:25:51,130 --> 00:25:53,050
just fly right over the battle 
and keep going. 

516
00:25:53,050 --> 00:25:56,290
And then, like, I'm going to. 
The implication being I could 

517
00:25:56,290 --> 00:25:57,650
just go burn your town right 
now. 

518
00:25:57,650 --> 00:25:59,890
You marched out of maiden pool. 
You marched out of Duscandale. 

519
00:25:59,890 --> 00:26:03,530
Or not Duscandale. 
Wait, was it Duscandale? 

520
00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:06,780
Yeah, Duscandale in Maiden Pool 
and just fly right over them and

521
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:07,820
go. 
Yeah, I could just go burn your 

522
00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:09,700
town right now and there's 
nothing you can do about it. 

523
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,020
That's just how much of an edge 
we have That might be enough to 

524
00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:14,740
be like we've made a huge 
mistake. 

525
00:26:17,420 --> 00:26:23,100
So the Targaryen Allied troops 
might not have seen the Dragons 

526
00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:24,740
in action yet either. 
Until now. 

527
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:27,020
Nina Success. 
Maybe some of them were veterans

528
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:28,540
of a gun service in the century 
of blood. 

529
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:30,660
But if it was just him flying 
Valerian over there and burning 

530
00:26:30,660 --> 00:26:33,660
ships, then he might not had any
of his foot soldiers may have 

531
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,600
participated at all. 
So it's entirely possible that 

532
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,560
this was the first time there. 
That would have given them 

533
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,960
confidence. 
Unless, of course, there were 

534
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,840
some friendly casualties. 
Then they'd be a little wary. 

535
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,720
But overall they'd be like, 
sure, it's good to be on this 

536
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,960
side. 
Wow, that thing we just we can't

537
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,560
lose, you know, that would give 
his men a lot of their first 

538
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,560
time seeing it in action. 
They'd be like, yeah, because 

539
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,960
even if there were some veterans
that had seen blaring in action 

540
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,920
in the Century Blood, the vast 
majority of them would not have,

541
00:27:02,650 --> 00:27:05,210
That would be, you know, these 
would be new, new recruits. 

542
00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:08,250
Or, yeah, he wasn't shipping 
lots of men over to Essos during

543
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:10,210
that. 
As far as we know now, there's 

544
00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:11,970
no mention of captured swords 
yet. 

545
00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:14,930
The Iron Throne as we know, he 
started capturing swords, making

546
00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:17,050
them turn them over or just 
pulling them off the 

547
00:27:17,050 --> 00:27:19,650
battlefield, shipping them back 
to King's Landing or what's 

548
00:27:19,650 --> 00:27:21,930
becoming King's Landing and 
starting to melt them down for 

549
00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:24,130
the throne. 
There's no mention of that yet, 

550
00:27:24,130 --> 00:27:26,130
so he probably didn't have the 
idea yet. 

551
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:28,210
There were certainly enough 
swords to at least get started 

552
00:27:28,210 --> 00:27:30,060
here, but it's not mentioned 
yet. 

553
00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:32,740
It looks like the first mention 
of that is after Heron Hall, so 

554
00:27:32,740 --> 00:27:34,580
it looks like that's when it 
began. 

555
00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:36,340
So maybe Aegon had that idea 
then. 

556
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:39,500
It's always interesting to 
wonder if the Iron Throne 

557
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:44,260
figures in the dreams at all. 
Like he he knows that his line 

558
00:27:44,260 --> 00:27:47,580
has to be on the throne. 
It's not him, it's his line, and

559
00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:50,380
so is Does the throne loom large
in those dreams, as like a 

560
00:27:50,380 --> 00:27:52,860
symbol of that rule being in 
place? 

561
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:58,800
Or maybe he maybe he just knew 
he needed some large symbol to. 

562
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,120
Anyway, it's the throne. 
If you dreamt of that throne, 

563
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,080
that would be like that was 
quite a dream I just had. 

564
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,200
And if you kept having it and 
like, I'm going to do that. 

565
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,320
It might seem kind of abstract 
in a dream too, like you might 

566
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,000
not fully understand what it is 
until after a battle you see a 

567
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,360
bunch of swords melted and fused
together, and then you're like, 

568
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,920
oh, that's what was in my dream.
Yeah. 

569
00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:27,660
Nina also suggests he didn't 
know Agon. 

570
00:28:27,660 --> 00:28:30,260
That is, that he hadn't yet even
decided about King's Landing. 

571
00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:32,900
That's entirely possible. 
So where, Let alone having a 

572
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:36,060
throne, where is it going to be 
at this point? 

573
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:38,700
Some people, maybe even him, was
thinking Duncandale. 

574
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:40,940
Why not just start out in 
Duncandale? 

575
00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:45,420
It's a prosperous port city, 
More properly a town, I suppose,

576
00:28:45,420 --> 00:28:50,220
but a prosperous spot near where
King's Landing eventually goes. 

577
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:54,970
So it could have been a 
consideration and I don't you 

578
00:28:54,970 --> 00:28:57,690
wonder what the the Darklands at
that time we're thinking like no

579
00:28:57,690 --> 00:28:59,850
don't take our town over for 
your new capital. 

580
00:28:59,850 --> 00:29:01,970
This is ours. 
You know why not build down 

581
00:29:01,970 --> 00:29:04,570
there maybe they suggested that 
you know they're a real city by 

582
00:29:04,570 --> 00:29:06,570
the mouth of the black water 
would look great. 

583
00:29:06,570 --> 00:29:09,370
Y'all you know why don't you 
build that because Dunscandale 

584
00:29:09,370 --> 00:29:11,810
is very significant the largest 
trading port in the area. 

585
00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:16,610
You have to go north to Gull 
Town to find, you know a bigger 

586
00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:19,210
trading spot and at this point 
that you know that's that's 

587
00:29:19,210 --> 00:29:24,780
pretty far away and manpower and
wealth wise as well. 

588
00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:28,940
Visenia didn't allow the sacking
of Dunscandale partly because 

589
00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:32,340
they wanted as an ally but they 
were happy to take a lot of its 

590
00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:37,180
wealth away and again give it to
Agon and and use that for more 

591
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:40,980
fuel for the conquest. 
Maiden Pool is a large town as 

592
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:42,420
well. 
They're probably similar in 

593
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:45,540
size, Maiden Pool, and we've 
been to in A Song of Ice and 

594
00:29:45,540 --> 00:29:50,790
Fire, Brienne goes there and 
technically it's not going to be

595
00:29:50,790 --> 00:29:52,470
in the Crown Land. 
So it's the eastern border of 

596
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:54,030
the Riverlands. 
A little more on that later. 

597
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:57,030
It's interesting that Agon 
didn't include it in his his own

598
00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:58,510
region. 
I wonder if it was like a check 

599
00:29:58,510 --> 00:30:00,630
against the power of the 
Riverlands or he just wanted the

600
00:30:00,630 --> 00:30:04,030
Riverlands to have a certain 
level of strength to hold itself

601
00:30:04,030 --> 00:30:05,790
against the other regions. 
Because it's always in the 

602
00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:08,190
middle and I'm not sure. 
It's an interesting question 

603
00:30:08,190 --> 00:30:11,110
though. 
It probably doesn't make that 

604
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:13,510
much difference to him, but it's
still manpower. 

605
00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:16,750
I mean, if you're calling up the
the troops in the Crown lands, 

606
00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:20,100
you would think he would want 
made in Pool included in that he

607
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:23,980
must have had a good reason to 
included in the Riverlands. 

608
00:30:24,620 --> 00:30:27,500
He might want the Riverlands to 
maintain the ability to call up 

609
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:29,220
their own their own bands, 
right? 

610
00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:32,140
He doesn't want to completely 
usurp them. 

611
00:30:33,260 --> 00:30:38,250
It's, especially if. 
It could easily be a sort of, I 

612
00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:40,490
don't know how to say it's a 
negotiating tool to to keep the 

613
00:30:40,490 --> 00:30:43,970
Riverlands allied with him. 
Like let us keep made in Pool. 

614
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:45,090
Thanks so much for that. 
OK. 

615
00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:48,410
Yeah, that that's true. 
And there's also just regular 

616
00:30:49,290 --> 00:30:51,490
tradition to keep track of. 
You know, Maiden Pool had been 

617
00:30:51,490 --> 00:30:53,850
part of the Riverlands before 
and that's what they're used to 

618
00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:56,610
and it's not broke. 
Don't fix it. 

619
00:30:56,610 --> 00:31:00,850
That kind of situation just let 
it leave as much as is a guns 

620
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:05,090
plan in general seems to be 
change as little as possible. 

621
00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:08,170
Let them do what they were doing
as much as possible. 

622
00:31:08,170 --> 00:31:10,410
And that maybe, just maybe, it's
just as simple as that, it fits 

623
00:31:10,410 --> 00:31:14,770
in with that whole idea, that 
plan, that, that approach. 

624
00:31:15,690 --> 00:31:19,770
Which adds to like you don't 
want every town you come up 

625
00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:22,410
against to feel like they have 
no choice but to fight. 

626
00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:25,290
It's all or nothing like that. 
No, you don't have to fight me. 

627
00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:28,850
You could just keep being like 
you, like you average soldiers 

628
00:31:28,850 --> 00:31:31,010
and farmers just keep living 
your life. 

629
00:31:31,010 --> 00:31:33,330
I'm just going to be in charge 
of these other Lords who have 

630
00:31:33,330 --> 00:31:35,990
been in charge of you. 
Like, I don't need to destroy 

631
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:37,910
your town. 
I don't need to take you over. 

632
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:39,590
Yeah, I did. 
Everything would be cool, man. 

633
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:41,150
Just be cool. 
And that's why I think they were

634
00:31:41,150 --> 00:31:45,150
afraid of Heron or just really 
overly duty oriented, because 

635
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:48,670
otherwise they would much rather
have Aegon as their Lord. 

636
00:31:48,750 --> 00:31:50,750
You would think, I mean, he's 
not, even though they don't, 

637
00:31:50,750 --> 00:31:53,070
maybe not don't know much about 
him, they know a lot about 

638
00:31:53,070 --> 00:31:54,270
Heron. 
And it's just like if you roll 

639
00:31:54,270 --> 00:31:55,830
the dice, you're probably going 
to get someone better than 

640
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:58,510
Heron, You know? 
There's plenty of Lords you 

641
00:31:58,510 --> 00:32:00,270
could have you like. 
Well, we could do a lot worse 

642
00:32:00,270 --> 00:32:01,550
than him, you know? 
But you can. 

643
00:32:01,550 --> 00:32:04,640
You could. 
Heron's about as bad as it gets,

644
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,120
so that's a worthy gamble there.
So these are pretty big 

645
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,960
additions to the team, so to 
speak. 

646
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,680
We got Dusk and Dale, Maiden 
Pool. 

647
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,200
A dozen Lords in total we're 
told have Bethany to Agon. 

648
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,200
We can assume we don't know 
exactly which ones they are. 

649
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:25,040
We can assume some of them are 
those Lords of Massey's Hook, 

650
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,260
Stone Dance and Sharp Point, Far
Emmon and and Massey that is, 

651
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:34,220
who had been vassals of Argalac.
So already House Targaryen has 

652
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:37,900
peeled off some of Argalac 
supporters and some of herons. 

653
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:41,140
Herons only herons went with 
took needed a fight Though at 

654
00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:46,060
this point so far now Vicinia is
eventually going to subjugate 

655
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:49,140
rather easily. 
It's not much of a fight 

656
00:32:49,140 --> 00:32:50,780
required. 
Crack Claw Point, which will 

657
00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:53,060
become part of the Crown lands 
as well, but not yet. 

658
00:32:53,060 --> 00:32:54,420
That has not actually happened 
yet. 

659
00:32:54,420 --> 00:32:56,100
It's not going to happen until 
after the field of fire. 

660
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,400
Natsenya's part in all this is 
interesting in that it's a 

661
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,720
little more piece meal. 
She goes and takes part of the 

662
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,240
veil and then has to fly over to
fight the field of fire before 

663
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,280
returning to the veil to finish 
things off there. 

664
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,160
So but we'll focus on more on 
her a bit later. 

665
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,640
So as I said a minute ago, it's 
not clear exactly when all this 

666
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,360
was organized and when it was 
called the Crown Lands, but it's

667
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,880
pretty clear that the things 
closest to King's Landing would 

668
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,480
be part of this new region. 
And maybe going a little farther

669
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,160
out, it wasn't quite as clear, 
but that all would have been 

670
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,360
settled a bit later. 
You know, I just thought of 

671
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,880
something that I wonder if it 
had to do with something along 

672
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,720
the lines of a day's ride, like 
how far from how far the King's 

673
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,080
writ will go. 
Yeah, that that's often how 

674
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,840
these ancient distances are 
calculated because they don't 

675
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,640
have like, feet and yards and 
aren't, you know, used very 

676
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,280
regularly and not in a way that 
is universal. 

677
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,440
So yeah, you're right. 
That's like the kind of thing 

678
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,840
that someone would go like how 
many steps, how many sheep that 

679
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,440
can live on a certain amount of 
land, that that's what counts 

680
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,280
as, like how much, how many 
people it can be, it can 

681
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,440
support. 
Yeah, these measurements are 

682
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,480
more like natural rather than 
based in some unit of measure. 

683
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,760
And so that's why I'm wondering 
if maybe that's why we already 

684
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,199
supposed some other reasons but 
Dusk and Dale or you know, some,

685
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,080
any town that's kind of on the 
edge. 

686
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,320
Maybe they were just like past a
day's travel or a week's travel,

687
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,239
whatever it is. 
And some of the other 12 are 

688
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,199
kind of easy to figure out. 
We've got antlers ruled by House

689
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,320
Buckle, Buckwell. 
We already said Rosby and 

690
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,800
Stokeworth. 
Dunscandale was Darkland then. 

691
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,350
It's House Riker now Hollered. 
Hall, of course, has now been 

692
00:34:41,350 --> 00:34:45,429
destroyed, thanks to Aries's 
revenge for the defiance of 

693
00:34:45,429 --> 00:34:48,510
Duscandale. 
But Hallard Hall would have been

694
00:34:48,510 --> 00:34:50,830
there then. 
The house, you know, with the 

695
00:34:52,750 --> 00:34:54,030
the Haller descendants and all 
that. 

696
00:34:54,030 --> 00:35:00,510
Then Rooks rest, held by House 
Staunton, and there's a Rosby 

697
00:35:00,510 --> 00:35:02,830
Rd. from King's Landing to 
Dunscandale. 

698
00:35:02,830 --> 00:35:05,790
We're not sure if that road 
existed then, and Rosby's in 

699
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:09,860
between. 
Obviously Dragonstone, Drift 

700
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:11,420
Mark and Claw Aisle are part of 
it. 

701
00:35:11,420 --> 00:35:14,060
Ashea is pulling the map up here
so you can see Blackwater Bay. 

702
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:19,740
You can see the basic area of 
the crown lands there and it 

703
00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:22,700
should be pretty clear. 
And you can see all the major 

704
00:35:23,020 --> 00:35:25,340
spots there, marked by little 
castle indicators. 

705
00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:27,140
You can see Sharp point and 
stone dance over there on 

706
00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:29,660
Massey. 
Hook to the right slash E right 

707
00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:32,980
north of that is Dragonstone and
Drift Mark and you can see 

708
00:35:32,980 --> 00:35:34,940
King's Landing, which wasn't 
there at the time but it 

709
00:35:34,940 --> 00:35:37,740
certainly tells you where the 
general idea is. 

710
00:35:38,170 --> 00:35:40,970
And all those things N Rosby 
Stoke worth Dusk and Dale 

711
00:35:40,970 --> 00:35:44,810
Hayford and Antlers. 
Yeah, how sunglass would be in 

712
00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:48,650
here somewhere we don't know 
where how sunglasses sweet port 

713
00:35:48,650 --> 00:35:51,690
sound is actually located so but
it would be in there somewhere. 

714
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:54,290
The house sunglass. 
You may remember how Sunglass 

715
00:35:54,290 --> 00:36:00,250
cuz Melasandra burned the Lord 
of Sunglass really early in in 

716
00:36:00,250 --> 00:36:05,260
Clash of Kings. 
And of course the Aegon Fort is 

717
00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:07,500
what stands in for King's 
Landing at this point. 

718
00:36:07,620 --> 00:36:10,940
And I can just assume or we can 
safely assume rather, that it's 

719
00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:14,020
just constantly being added to 
like all while these other 

720
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:17,500
events are happening, more and 
more people are moving to that 

721
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:19,940
area, more and more 
fortifications are being built, 

722
00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:23,220
more and more businesses are 
opening, more settlers, 

723
00:36:23,580 --> 00:36:25,540
etcetera. 
It's becoming a safer place, 

724
00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:28,140
becoming more developed. 
That means more people are going

725
00:36:28,140 --> 00:36:32,820
to want to live there without 
any more major interference. 

726
00:36:32,820 --> 00:36:35,700
I wonder if Agon was surprised. 
It's just like no one's coming 

727
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:37,820
for us, or if this just goes to 
his supreme confidence. 

728
00:36:37,820 --> 00:36:39,700
Or maybe it's just what his 
dreams were telling him, Like 

729
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:41,780
destiny. 
This is all fitting in with the 

730
00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:43,620
destiny he expects. 
Now. 

731
00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:47,500
Here's another reason to wonder 
about why, or to explain rather,

732
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:50,740
why some people might have been 
reluctant to join Agon, Vasenia,

733
00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:57,140
and Rainey's, despite all their 
great strength with the Dragons 

734
00:36:57,140 --> 00:37:01,550
and extreme capability and 
confidence and all that, which 

735
00:37:01,550 --> 00:37:05,070
is that their line might have 
seemed a little fragile. 

736
00:37:06,030 --> 00:37:10,950
Aegon didn't have any kids yet. 
That's a little He didn't have a

737
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:13,510
brother either. 
So it's not like there's someone

738
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:16,270
out like that they would pass to
Visenna if he died, and then, 

739
00:37:16,270 --> 00:37:19,590
well, she would have to get 
married and have a child to 

740
00:37:19,590 --> 00:37:21,950
continue that line. 
So it's just a little messy in 

741
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:24,230
that sense. 
There's no clear line of 

742
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:26,270
succession there, and there may 
not be one. 

743
00:37:26,270 --> 00:37:30,750
Is like, if you don't have kids 
there, the doubt will be that 

744
00:37:30,750 --> 00:37:33,870
you can't have kids, that you 
are sterile or that, you know, 

745
00:37:33,870 --> 00:37:36,750
that's the normal enough thing 
that happens in the real world 

746
00:37:36,910 --> 00:37:40,390
and in Westeros that people just
don't have kids, no matter how 

747
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:43,390
hard they try. 
It's just a fairly regular 

748
00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:46,070
medical occurrence. 
And he's got two wives, so the 

749
00:37:46,070 --> 00:37:49,350
proof is like double than it 
would be otherwise. 

750
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,950
So it might be like might be. 
No one's going to say this out 

751
00:37:51,950 --> 00:37:53,830
loud, especially not to his face
at least. 

752
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:56,980
Well, they would say it out loud
if, you know, certain company, 

753
00:37:56,980 --> 00:38:00,060
like make sure no one's 
listening, is he capable of 

754
00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:01,860
having kids? 
Are we just going to bend the 

755
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:03,380
knee to this guy? 
And then this whole kingdom's 

756
00:38:03,380 --> 00:38:05,980
going to fall apart in a decade 
when he has no children and it 

757
00:38:05,980 --> 00:38:07,620
just collapses on it and on 
itself. 

758
00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:12,380
That's scary for these Lords and
ladies who were trying to decide

759
00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:14,260
what side to take. 
It's a tightrope walk of 

760
00:38:14,260 --> 00:38:18,460
decision making and that's 
really scary, not having a the 

761
00:38:18,460 --> 00:38:20,500
succession like you see how it 
was a big deal for Rob. 

762
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:21,660
They're like Rob, you got to 
have a kid. 

763
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:23,420
You got to get married and get 
this started, man. 

764
00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:26,330
You got to like when he was 16, 
they were pressing him for that.

765
00:38:26,330 --> 00:38:30,050
Aegon's like 27 at this point. 
It's pretty unusual. 

766
00:38:31,890 --> 00:38:34,970
You know, this might be a little
bit of a tangent, but what other

767
00:38:34,970 --> 00:38:37,890
Targaryens were there? 
Like is there any thought that 

768
00:38:37,890 --> 00:38:40,650
did he have like an uncle or a 
cousin or something? 

769
00:38:40,690 --> 00:38:42,570
Is there not that we know of. 
Targaryens. 

770
00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:45,850
And we know of nothing. 
Yeah, there there's no there 

771
00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:48,970
shouldn't be any uncles. 
There might be a cousin or 

772
00:38:48,970 --> 00:38:54,360
something out there, but no 
mention of anything like they 

773
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,680
would have come up. 
You think you know, his mom's 

774
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,480
alive? 
Maybe. 

775
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,840
But she was a Velarian, not a 
Targaryen anyway, so she 

776
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:00,960
wouldn't. 
Exactly. 

777
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,480
I mean, she's relevant, but not 
to this particular question. 

778
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:06,960
And she might not have been 
alive. 

779
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,680
So even that is, that's just 
kind of like a well, I don't 

780
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,080
know. 
So there's a lot of unknowns 

781
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,840
here, which if there were no 
other cousins and we're pretty 

782
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,000
sure they're at, that's the only
thing there could be. 

783
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,640
I think is a cousin because 
there's definitely no brother or

784
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,830
uncle probably know and there 
may have been an ants, but I 

785
00:39:23,830 --> 00:39:26,670
don't even know about that And 
so that's about it. 

786
00:39:26,670 --> 00:39:28,630
There's just cousins. 
The only possibility. 

787
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:30,310
And that doesn't seem to be the 
case. 

788
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:32,990
Like, if there was a cousin, why
didn't they, Why did they have a

789
00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:34,750
dragon? 
Why didn't you know there? 

790
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:36,510
It just seems like they just 
didn't exist. 

791
00:39:36,510 --> 00:39:40,870
It seems like there's too many. 
It's unlike a lot of other 

792
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:43,630
family members. 
Like it's pretty easy to to find

793
00:39:43,630 --> 00:39:45,910
another Baratheon or another 
Lannister, especially Lannister,

794
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:48,350
really. 
Or Gardener, you know? 

795
00:39:48,510 --> 00:39:52,860
But an extra Targaryen in this 
era is kind of hard to conceal 

796
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:55,180
between the lines, You know, 
It's like, well, no, this would 

797
00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:56,740
have been talked about. 
Why weren't they part of the 

798
00:39:56,740 --> 00:39:58,660
conquest? 
Why didn't they have a dragon if

799
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:00,180
they didn't have a dragon? 
Well, why not? 

800
00:40:00,180 --> 00:40:03,540
Like, what's the reason there? 
So there's all these open 

801
00:40:03,540 --> 00:40:05,620
questions. 
So I I feel pretty strongly that

802
00:40:05,660 --> 00:40:08,180
it's not just a case of it not 
being recorded, that to the fact

803
00:40:08,180 --> 00:40:11,460
that it's not recorded, it does 
seem to tell us that it just 

804
00:40:11,460 --> 00:40:13,380
didn't exist. 
I don't know if there's room for

805
00:40:13,380 --> 00:40:15,620
it. 
It's a clue in its own that it's

806
00:40:15,620 --> 00:40:19,030
not mentioned, you know, You 
know that. 

807
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:23,710
I don't know if I hope we're not
jumping too far ahead, but Nina 

808
00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:29,230
talks a little bit about the, I 
don't know the the symbolicness 

809
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:31,150
of the Crown itself. 
Yeah, yeah, we can talk about 

810
00:40:31,150 --> 00:40:32,390
that. 
This is what happens here. 

811
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:33,550
Let's let me set that up 
briefly. 

812
00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:36,870
The coronation comes, we we 
mentioned it before when he has 

813
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:39,110
his first coronation, but this 
is when it actually happens. 

814
00:40:39,310 --> 00:40:43,630
After these first 12 Lords are 
so surrender, they have a little

815
00:40:43,630 --> 00:40:45,950
ceremony. 
Presumably those Lords are 

816
00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:49,250
present. 
And Visenia says those words 

817
00:40:49,250 --> 00:40:53,210
that we discussed last time, 
noting the lack of the phrase 

818
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:55,690
House Targaryen and all that 
interesting stuff. 

819
00:40:56,050 --> 00:40:57,330
So this is when that actually 
happens. 

820
00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,610
And he declares the small 
council, we don't have to rehash

821
00:40:59,610 --> 00:41:01,370
that, We'll just place it here 
in our timeline. 

822
00:41:01,370 --> 00:41:03,890
Now, Sean, what are you going to
say about the Crown? 

823
00:41:04,650 --> 00:41:07,330
Well, even that is worth, I'm 
glad you brought it up because 

824
00:41:07,330 --> 00:41:09,690
it is kind of in line with what 
Nina's saying here. 

825
00:41:09,810 --> 00:41:12,330
I'm not necessarily going to 
full detail out of mine if you 

826
00:41:12,330 --> 00:41:17,280
want to, but but just the idea 
that this question of how the 

827
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:25,320
line might succeed, he might be 
usurping that by not talking 

828
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,240
about how Targaryen and by this 
being a Conqueror's crown like. 

829
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,480
Look, I'm just going to beat you
militarily, like we can figure 

830
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,040
out succession later. 
That doesn't matter. 

831
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,760
That's not a factor. 
I'm going to rule this. 

832
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,200
It fits with his boss 
presentation, doesn't it, that 

833
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,720
we were saying before project 
extreme confidence. 

834
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:43,800
And yes, no, I'm ahead of you. 
I'm in front of you, doesn't you

835
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,880
don't. 
You don't have to worry about 

836
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,520
those things. 
That's for me to worry about, 

837
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,320
whether I can have kids or not. 
I'll just name someone to be my 

838
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,920
successor. 
My sister will do it. 

839
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,440
I'll Maybe I'll have a kid, 
maybe I won't. 

840
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,960
None of that matters. 
I have an army. 

841
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,600
I have these Dragons. 
I'm going to take Heron down and

842
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,080
you're going to realize that 
you're next and that you're 

843
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,760
thankful that I took Heron down 
and this is just happening. 

844
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,440
You just don't see it yet. 
But this is happening, and 

845
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,190
details like that shouldn't 
shouldn't matter to you. 

846
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:13,470
I like it. 
This this dragon detail is what 

847
00:42:13,470 --> 00:42:15,990
should matter to you. 
It does really fit with his his 

848
00:42:16,510 --> 00:42:18,270
attitude towards a lot of these 
things. 

849
00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:21,310
I I like that a lot. 
And it might have been why he 

850
00:42:21,310 --> 00:42:23,990
took this approach, because he 
knew that might be an issue, the

851
00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:26,110
idea that the right question, 
the succession. 

852
00:42:26,110 --> 00:42:28,550
So he just needs to not let that
be an issue, right? 

853
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:30,750
Like I'm not our family isn't 
taking over. 

854
00:42:31,110 --> 00:42:35,030
I'm taking over. 
Yes, yes, he will decide who the

855
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:36,990
successor is. 
It may or may not be someone 

856
00:42:36,990 --> 00:42:39,940
from his family. 
And that might be why that this 

857
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:41,860
might be why that was partly 
phrased that way because he 

858
00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:46,100
didn't have a successor yet. 
So saying House Targaryen is in 

859
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:50,020
charge now, might that might be 
a corner he didn't want to paint

860
00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:52,180
himself into because he might 
have been worried he couldn't 

861
00:42:52,180 --> 00:42:55,260
have kids. 
Which is I don't know how to 

862
00:42:55,260 --> 00:42:58,100
square that with the dreams and 
saying his family has to be in 

863
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:00,380
charge, like, well, how is that 
going to work out then if if 

864
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:02,740
they're not, I don't know. 
Maybe. 

865
00:43:03,140 --> 00:43:05,260
Again, there's his sisters that 
could have children with 

866
00:43:05,260 --> 00:43:07,060
somebody else. 
So it's not like he's the only. 

867
00:43:08,820 --> 00:43:11,860
The last Bloodline. 
He's the last man of how Star 

868
00:43:11,860 --> 00:43:13,340
going at that point. 
But yeah, there's still other 

869
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:16,820
possibilities. 
The Crown being so simple is 

870
00:43:16,820 --> 00:43:20,900
interesting, and it's kind of 
funny in a sense, like the irony

871
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:24,500
of the Iron Throne being that a 
king shouldn't sit easily. 

872
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:28,420
Well, what's that old phrase? 
The crown shouldn't rest easy on

873
00:43:28,420 --> 00:43:31,160
the King's head. 
This is like the easiest crown 

874
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,600
to rest on someone's head. 
It's a Valyrian steel circlet. 

875
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,480
Valyrian steel's extremely 
light, so this is like, 

876
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,280
ironically, the gaudy giant gold
one that Amy's had made. 

877
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,760
He was not a very good king. 
He actually had a crown that fit

878
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,920
that. 
You know that metaphor. 

879
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,040
It didn't rest easy. 
Probably It was a giant gold 

880
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,680
thing. 
You got a thing. 

881
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,040
Guarantee that thing was heavy 
as hell. 

882
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,360
Minimal. 
Agons was like a war crown think

883
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,310
you'd wear in battle. 
And not like, mess him up or 

884
00:43:57,310 --> 00:44:00,550
slow him down or anything. 
So it's kind of, yeah, kind of 

885
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:04,510
ironic, which I as Nina points 
out, that it it's sort of 

886
00:44:04,510 --> 00:44:08,870
symbolic that he's not here as 
some sort of royalty or some 

887
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:12,670
fancy leader that was handed 
this like he's seizing it, and 

888
00:44:12,670 --> 00:44:16,950
he doesn't even need some 
trappings of fancy crowns to 

889
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:18,390
prove it. 
He's got these Dragons. 

890
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:21,990
And furthermore, she points out 
that the crown itself is made 

891
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:25,270
from valerian steel, which is 
probably more rare than gold and

892
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:28,510
usually used to make a sword. 
And he's just wearing it like a 

893
00:44:28,510 --> 00:44:30,230
crown. 
Like it just kind of shows. 

894
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:33,310
It's sort of like however he 
means it to be or not. 

895
00:44:33,310 --> 00:44:36,950
It's just sort of an indication 
of how far ahead he is in 

896
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:38,990
resources and power and 
everything that everyone else 

897
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:41,630
doesn't need to show it off, 
even though he kind of is 

898
00:44:41,630 --> 00:44:44,070
showing it off, you know? 
Yeah, that's a great point about

899
00:44:44,070 --> 00:44:47,950
using the material best, or 
perhaps more ideally suited for 

900
00:44:47,950 --> 00:44:49,310
weapons. 
And he's like, no, I'm going to 

901
00:44:49,310 --> 00:44:51,470
wear this on my head as a symbol
of power instead. 

902
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:54,230
Even if it got enough weapons, 
yeah, even if it isn't 

903
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:56,710
necessarily that much, cuz I'm 
guessing it didn't take a lot of

904
00:44:56,710 --> 00:44:59,950
Lyrian steel. 
But still, the stuff is wildly 

905
00:44:59,950 --> 00:45:03,310
expensive and rare, and it had 
the rubies in it to give it a 

906
00:45:03,310 --> 00:45:08,390
little bit of extra weight, both
metaphorically and literally. 

907
00:45:09,070 --> 00:45:10,670
Maybe it would fly right off 
with a little. 

908
00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:14,430
You need a little bit of weight 
or it'll just, Oh no, fell right

909
00:45:14,430 --> 00:45:19,240
off the dragon, you know? 
Like where did that go, the wind

910
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:21,480
up there and flying a dragon? 
Yeah, he had to fasten that 

911
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,120
thing onto his helmet. 
So they'll let the chin strap. 

912
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,960
Yeah, crown chin strap. 
Take any chances there. 

913
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,800
So yes, they probably had to 
melt something else down to to 

914
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:34,800
do that. 
They probably rework it. 

915
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,080
I doubt they just had a Valerian
still circle just sitting around

916
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,880
ready for that. 
Like crowns in old Valeria are 

917
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,120
probably frowned on. 
They were very anti kings and 

918
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,270
Queens, so. 
Emperors or anything like that, 

919
00:45:46,270 --> 00:45:49,670
Yeah, I'm guessing crowns were 
kind of a very bold fashion 

920
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:53,190
choice that we look down on, 
we're trying to call back to. 

921
00:45:53,390 --> 00:45:57,270
This What's the line between 
Crown and Circlet and Tiara and 

922
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:59,670
like died, you know? 
Like, that's exactly the sort of

923
00:45:59,670 --> 00:46:01,710
fashion limits that the 
Valyrians would be testing 

924
00:46:01,710 --> 00:46:03,550
amongst each other. 
Like, what can I get away with 

925
00:46:03,550 --> 00:46:05,550
this thing? 
Is that a tiara or a crown or? 

926
00:46:05,550 --> 00:46:11,190
I remember that scene in in Rome
season one where he's Caesar, 

927
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:14,310
which who's played by Karen 
Hines. 

928
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,360
I always forget how to say that 
name Kieron Hines and he's 

929
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,280
obviously Mans Raider and he's 
he's as he's dressing for his 

930
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,680
triumph which is his great 
celebration after conquering 

931
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,880
Gaul. 
So it's this huge state 

932
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,880
sponsored event that if you slay
enough enemies, they put this, 

933
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,040
you get to do this. 
And it's a huge deal. 

934
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,280
Like all the, like most 
ambitious men in Rome always 

935
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,600
wanted one of these. 
And he's sitting there choosing 

936
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,600
his garments for it and he's 
like his, his, like slaves and 

937
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:41,800
attendants are like, what about 
this one? 

938
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,880
He's like, it's a red, it's a 
deep red. 

939
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,880
He's like. 
It's a little too purple. 

940
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,760
Little too, because purple's the
imperial color. 

941
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,080
He's like, no, I don't want to 
come off like I'm trying to be 

942
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,800
an emperor here. 
So he's very. 

943
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,000
He's choosing his garment. 
Yeah. 

944
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,040
Yeah. 
He's like, no, that comes, give 

945
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,560
me a few more year, give me 
another year before I do that. 

946
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,120
But it goes to show that like 
these high-ranking people, like 

947
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,880
the way they dress and the what 
what that projects it like, it's

948
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,760
it sends a message and they're 
very careful at curtailing that 

949
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,400
message and and making sure it's
the message they want to send 

950
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,000
and not like oh I'm trying to 
conquer you. 

951
00:47:14,570 --> 00:47:16,490
Or or it is. 
I'm trying to conquer you. 

952
00:47:16,490 --> 00:47:18,210
I mean that depending on the 
scenario. 

953
00:47:18,250 --> 00:47:21,330
Caesar was not trying to say 
that even though he was trying 

954
00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:23,930
to do it. 
Whereas Agon seems like he's 

955
00:47:23,930 --> 00:47:26,410
pretty clearly just I'm going to
conquer you. 

956
00:47:26,410 --> 00:47:28,370
You know I'm in your face. 
I'm going to like Shawn said, 

957
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:30,850
there's there's no Hemming and 
hawing here. 

958
00:47:30,850 --> 00:47:32,810
It's all I'm going to dominate 
you. 

959
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:35,690
You don't these other factors 
don't matter. 

960
00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:39,090
As to the no children thing, 
another factor in there that 

961
00:47:39,090 --> 00:47:40,570
refers this thing we talked 
about before. 

962
00:47:40,570 --> 00:47:42,810
That's part of why he got those 
third wife offers too. 

963
00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:47,610
Not only was it, well, maybe I 
will have a child, it's also an 

964
00:47:47,610 --> 00:47:49,130
ambitious move. 
They're like, well, maybe if the

965
00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:54,850
if the child that comes first 
comes from me, then my child is 

966
00:47:54,850 --> 00:47:58,010
the heir to this new throne, 
this new entire dynasty. 

967
00:47:58,010 --> 00:48:00,370
So that's a pretty big deal that
would want to get in on that if 

968
00:48:00,370 --> 00:48:03,610
possible. 
And since that spot wasn't taken

969
00:48:03,610 --> 00:48:05,410
yet, a lot of people would want 
it. 

970
00:48:05,410 --> 00:48:07,210
And that spot? 
Meaning, of course, the heir to 

971
00:48:07,210 --> 00:48:11,660
the throne. 
But once again I'll say we'll 

972
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:14,260
return to the topics of Agon, 
Rainey, Vicinity and their 

973
00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:17,980
stories individually and 
combined, but we'll stay focused

974
00:48:17,980 --> 00:48:20,540
on the conquest for now. 
However, I want to bring up 

975
00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:23,180
Danny for a minute. 
When Danny arrives in Westeros 

976
00:48:23,180 --> 00:48:25,140
it looks like it's going to be 
chaotic. 

977
00:48:25,140 --> 00:48:27,460
It looks like it's going to be 
several kings and queen and or 

978
00:48:27,460 --> 00:48:30,540
queen still fighting for 
supremacy. 

979
00:48:30,780 --> 00:48:35,180
Maybe Agon Slash Young Griff has
settled things a bit. 

980
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:38,870
Maybe he's solidified things a 
bit, started making some 

981
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:40,630
progress there. 
But I seriously doubt that the 

982
00:48:40,630 --> 00:48:44,910
Lannisters will be completely 
defeated, that the Reach will be

983
00:48:44,910 --> 00:48:48,670
just copacetic with whatever's 
happening, let alone Dorn, 

984
00:48:48,910 --> 00:48:51,630
whatever's happening there, 
Dorn, they may have their 

985
00:48:51,630 --> 00:48:55,270
marriage to him, which might 
upset the Reach, or vice versa. 

986
00:48:55,270 --> 00:48:59,310
Something could happen. 
In other words, all these kings 

987
00:48:59,310 --> 00:49:02,990
and Queens might be awfully 
distracted by each other to 

988
00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:05,840
properly deal with Danny. 
Which is kind of the same 

989
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,640
scenario we have here. 
They probably should have ganged

990
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,840
up on Aegon in their best 
interest. 

991
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,240
That might have been in their 
best interests. 

992
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,200
They should probably gang up on 
Danny when she comes, But I can 

993
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,960
see it going very similarly 
where they're all too busy 

994
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,720
dealing with each other. 
Or like, we'll let him deal with

995
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:21,200
it. 
Why should I expend my strength 

996
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,840
on this new invader when their 
first attack is against one of 

997
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,000
my enemies, right. 
Like Tywin's argument that 

998
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,440
Wolfman's Raider or or bail and 
Greyjoy wants to attack the 

999
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,530
North. 
Let them. 

1000
00:49:35,850 --> 00:49:37,450
That's our enemies. 
They're attacking. 

1001
00:49:37,610 --> 00:49:38,970
We don't have to be allies with 
them. 

1002
00:49:39,610 --> 00:49:43,130
Like I think you said earlier 
that the the different Lords 

1003
00:49:43,210 --> 00:49:47,490
might have been too scared to to
face the Dragons, but we've also

1004
00:49:47,490 --> 00:49:49,930
talked about how they might not 
have even really been aware of 

1005
00:49:49,930 --> 00:49:53,330
the power of the Dragons. 
I think they were more they were

1006
00:49:53,410 --> 00:49:58,690
as reluctant to work with each 
other as they were to face a 

1007
00:49:58,690 --> 00:49:59,690
dragon. 
Does that make? 

1008
00:49:59,810 --> 00:50:01,530
Sense. 
Yeah, Because that's just that 

1009
00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:03,250
can be just as dangerous. 
Maybe not to? 

1010
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,480
They're soldiers and their and 
their lands but to them 

1011
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,320
personally like an assassination
or a political type maneuver, 

1012
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,040
you know something like that 
something getting close to 

1013
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,240
something or even a concession 
of weakness or you know on on 

1014
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,240
and on right like or even like 
grudges from the past. 

1015
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:21,440
There's all kinds of reasons why
they might not want to work with

1016
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,240
each other and and and so that 
also could be similar when Danny

1017
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,080
shows up and it kind of kind of 
this overall theme that they're 

1018
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,160
all squabbling over who should 
be in the Iron Throne. 

1019
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,400
You know when Aegon shows up 
like he is maybe far in the 

1020
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,560
future and he's not telling 
them, but they are facing an 

1021
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,360
existential threat right then. 
Never mind the dream, right? 

1022
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,800
Yeah. 
Same thing with Danny shows up. 

1023
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,360
She might be like, look, you 
guys don't understand, like the 

1024
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,880
fact that the parallel here, the
fact that you couldn't team up 

1025
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,520
to stop me, means you're not 
going to team up to stop the 

1026
00:50:54,520 --> 00:51:11,040
whitewater, right? 
Now with Dorn, that's certainly 

1027
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,440
an interesting point and with 
the North as well because. 

1028
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,600
So that's sort of the sort of 
why she needs to, or why Aegon 

1029
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,280
needs to be, because the fact 
that they aren't able to work 

1030
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,680
together well enough to stop 
them is an indication they 

1031
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,320
couldn't work well enough 
together to stop and even bigger

1032
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:15,010
threats. 
These are the kingdoms on the 

1033
00:51:15,010 --> 00:51:16,770
extremities. 
They're the ones that have the 

1034
00:51:16,770 --> 00:51:19,170
most ability to sit back and 
wait and see what happens. 

1035
00:51:19,170 --> 00:51:22,170
If they gone starts to do well, 
they can be like, Oh yeah, we'll

1036
00:51:22,170 --> 00:51:25,090
surrender to you now without 
having expended anything, just 

1037
00:51:25,090 --> 00:51:27,810
waiting to see how it goes. 
Dorn and the North both have 

1038
00:51:27,810 --> 00:51:33,130
that option, and that seems to 
be sort of what happened. 

1039
00:51:33,130 --> 00:51:35,690
Let's let's look in the north 
though, to see. 

1040
00:51:36,050 --> 00:51:38,760
Focus on there for a minute. 
Even in the North, King Torrance

1041
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,680
Stark of Winterfell sat with his
Lords, Bannerman and counselors 

1042
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,040
late into the night discussing 
what was to be done about this 

1043
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,520
would be conqueror. 
The whole realm waited anxiously

1044
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,680
to see where Agon would move 
next. 

1045
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,640
Within days of his coronation, 
Agons armies were on the March 

1046
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,480
again. 
So only days they moved pretty 

1047
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,200
quickly. 
There he defeats the local 

1048
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,550
Lords. 
Gets made in bull Duskindale, 

1049
00:52:02,550 --> 00:52:04,630
all those all those places we 
named sort of sorts out the 

1050
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:06,670
crown lands and then apparently 
has his coronation. 

1051
00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:08,230
Within days of that he's on the 
March again. 

1052
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:12,030
So probably in those in that 
short time they were probably 

1053
00:52:12,030 --> 00:52:14,790
organizing the armies into 
groups they were deciding where 

1054
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:17,150
they would go. 
They they probably had decided 

1055
00:52:17,150 --> 00:52:21,310
there would be 3 thrusts at 
first, which we'll get to in a 

1056
00:52:21,310 --> 00:52:25,790
minute, and a certain amount of 
troops left behind to defend the

1057
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:30,030
new Aagon Fort and to see to 
logistics like. 

1058
00:52:30,430 --> 00:52:34,510
Sending food out to the armies 
and gathering taxes to pay for 

1059
00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:37,230
everything. 
There must have been a lot of 

1060
00:52:37,230 --> 00:52:40,430
other conversations. 
As it says here, the whole realm

1061
00:52:40,430 --> 00:52:42,630
waited anxiously. 
They didn't just wait, they 

1062
00:52:42,750 --> 00:52:44,830
talked about it, I'm sure. 
And that would have been 

1063
00:52:44,830 --> 00:52:50,510
happening in Tavern to the 
largest long haul and fanciest, 

1064
00:52:51,150 --> 00:52:54,350
you know, rooms. 
I can't think of a good word. 

1065
00:52:54,350 --> 00:52:56,790
So just rooms around the the 
Kingdom. 

1066
00:52:57,310 --> 00:52:59,790
Well, imagine the the puppet 
shows. 

1067
00:52:59,950 --> 00:53:03,150
We've always seen that as a way 
to sort of gauge the the common 

1068
00:53:03,150 --> 00:53:06,910
folks attitude towards the 
nobility in a certain time. 

1069
00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:08,990
Like what sort of things, what 
sort of scandals are they 

1070
00:53:08,990 --> 00:53:12,270
mocking? 
Which Royals and Lords are they 

1071
00:53:12,910 --> 00:53:18,470
praising or making fun of, or 
gossiping about what have you? 

1072
00:53:18,790 --> 00:53:22,910
The puppet shows would have a 
lot of material to work with in 

1073
00:53:22,910 --> 00:53:25,800
a time like this. 
They might actually be able to 

1074
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,760
make fun of Heron cuz they could
get away with that. 

1075
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,000
I'm sure the farther S you go 
the more you can make fun of 

1076
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,080
Heron gestures too. 
Could mock their Lords for not 

1077
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,080
for being afraid of the Dragons 
or whatever. 

1078
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,480
These different fools. 
And they're allowed to make fun 

1079
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,880
of powerful people. 
They would have a lot of that 

1080
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,800
going on. 
Makes me wonder about the spy 

1081
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,120
game in general in this era in 
the Conquest. 

1082
00:53:48,610 --> 00:53:52,250
It feels like more of the spy 
game came when Westeros was at 

1083
00:53:52,250 --> 00:53:54,330
peace by. 
There's more spying in times of 

1084
00:53:54,330 --> 00:53:58,450
peace in some ways, because the 
things you're spying on are 

1085
00:53:58,450 --> 00:54:01,610
different, like you're trying to
learn secrets about your people 

1086
00:54:01,610 --> 00:54:04,690
who are ostensibly your allies. 
It's different when you're 

1087
00:54:04,690 --> 00:54:07,770
spying on people for pure 
military reasons, like trying to

1088
00:54:07,770 --> 00:54:11,490
learn, like where do they keep 
their money and where do they? 

1089
00:54:11,690 --> 00:54:15,330
Who has the keys to the safer, 
you know, where does the general

1090
00:54:15,330 --> 00:54:18,130
sleep and things like that. 
It's different than. 

1091
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,880
Like who's sleeping with who? 
Or there's just different things

1092
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,080
you would be spying on depending
on whether it's peace or 

1093
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,480
wartime. 
And with the lack of trust 

1094
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,840
between so many kingdoms, it 
might you might not just have 

1095
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,680
like ambassadors and people 
there that are just playing a 

1096
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,600
double game of also a diplomat 
who's also a spy, which is a 

1097
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,680
fairly common thing. 
And so I just wonder how it was 

1098
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,240
played out. 
Like what's the basis, what's 

1099
00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:45,960
the the framework of spying in 
this era and intelligence games 

1100
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,910
in general? 
I don't have a strong handle on 

1101
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:49,310
it. 
I'd love to hear some ideas from

1102
00:54:49,310 --> 00:54:51,430
y'all or theories or just 
general thoughts. 

1103
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:54,150
Cuz yeah, I don't know, there 
isn't. 

1104
00:54:54,270 --> 00:54:56,310
Who is the little finger of this
era of anyone? 

1105
00:54:56,310 --> 00:54:58,990
And what is a little finger in 
this era do, given there isn't a

1106
00:54:58,990 --> 00:55:00,790
central power structure to try 
to climb? 

1107
00:55:01,270 --> 00:55:03,590
Do you attach yourself to 
whoever you think is the 

1108
00:55:03,590 --> 00:55:06,430
strongest and just hope you've 
chosen well and do everything 

1109
00:55:06,430 --> 00:55:08,590
you can to make sure that that 
actually works out? 

1110
00:55:08,590 --> 00:55:11,010
And then? 
Once you've ascended, then you 

1111
00:55:11,010 --> 00:55:13,850
start manipulating from within. 
Or when does it start? 

1112
00:55:13,850 --> 00:55:16,250
When do you start turning on? 
When do you start working for 

1113
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:18,770
yourself? 
And yeah, it's a big question. 

1114
00:55:19,570 --> 00:55:23,570
My suosition is that Aegon 
probably did the most spying in 

1115
00:55:23,570 --> 00:55:27,450
this this little moment, because
there's not much reason for the 

1116
00:55:27,450 --> 00:55:31,250
North to be spying on Dorn. 
There's not much reason for Dorn

1117
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:33,770
to be spying on the Iron 
Islands, but Aegon needs to know

1118
00:55:33,770 --> 00:55:35,330
about all of them. 
He's going to conquer the whole 

1119
00:55:35,330 --> 00:55:37,850
continent and he needs also he's
got Dragons. 

1120
00:55:37,850 --> 00:55:40,530
He can fly around and see where 
the true bases are, see where 

1121
00:55:40,530 --> 00:55:43,410
the bridge crossings are, see 
what etcetera, etcetera. 

1122
00:55:43,410 --> 00:55:46,610
So he has more motivation and 
more ability to do it. 

1123
00:55:47,090 --> 00:55:52,480
And it makes sense to me that 
other spies, it would have been 

1124
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,760
operating. 
We're probably more locally, 

1125
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,200
right? 
There would have been like 

1126
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,960
within a city or two cities or 
maybe even there a neighboring 

1127
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,320
Kingdom. 
But they're not spying all 

1128
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,280
around the continent, where I 
think Aegon would have been. 

1129
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:10,960
Is this perhaps against his 
attitude of straightforward 

1130
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,080
dominance? 
Like if he's if people whisper 

1131
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,040
that he's got spies and doing 
this stuff, would they would 

1132
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,570
that undermine? 
His, you know, front facing 

1133
00:56:21,570 --> 00:56:23,010
strength. 
Would they look at him as 

1134
00:56:23,010 --> 00:56:26,530
someone that won his Kingdom by 
cunning rather than? 

1135
00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:31,450
If he's any good at spying, they
don't know he has the spy so. 

1136
00:56:31,570 --> 00:56:33,650
Right, well said. 
Very well said. 

1137
00:56:35,250 --> 00:56:36,610
So maybe he just can't do it too
much. 

1138
00:56:36,610 --> 00:56:40,450
He can't, yeah, he can't be. 
Maybe a little bit of a balance 

1139
00:56:40,450 --> 00:56:42,610
to strike. 
There, if you do it effectively,

1140
00:56:42,610 --> 00:56:48,780
then yeah, it's not a problem. 
And and again I think we've said

1141
00:56:48,780 --> 00:56:53,020
a couple times it's sort of the,
it looks like he has this you 

1142
00:56:53,020 --> 00:56:57,820
know, straightforward, 
assertive, I'm more powerful 

1143
00:56:59,060 --> 00:57:01,460
tactic. 
But I think that comes from the 

1144
00:57:01,460 --> 00:57:03,540
moment he chose to make his 
play. 

1145
00:57:03,940 --> 00:57:06,980
I think there was a lot of 
planning and logistic and spying

1146
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:10,780
leading up to that that enabled 
him to use this tactic if he had

1147
00:57:10,780 --> 00:57:13,540
done it at a different time or 
in a different order when it 

1148
00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:17,140
played out as well. 
So I think that it's it's maybe 

1149
00:57:17,140 --> 00:57:19,140
not. 
I think there is some spying 

1150
00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:20,260
behind it for sure. 
Okay. 

1151
00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:22,420
Yeah. 
More of the spying of like, is 

1152
00:57:22,420 --> 00:57:24,460
the timing right? 
Is, you know, is everybody 

1153
00:57:24,460 --> 00:57:26,700
distracted properly? 
What's their attitudes like? 

1154
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:28,700
What will they do? 
Like getting a read on these 

1155
00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:31,060
leaders and their personalities 
to understand how they react 

1156
00:57:31,060 --> 00:57:34,260
rather than, like, snooping on 
their planning sessions and 

1157
00:57:34,260 --> 00:57:36,220
hearing what they say. 
So yeah, I can see that that 

1158
00:57:36,220 --> 00:57:38,620
works pretty well and it could 
be the snooping stuff as well. 

1159
00:57:38,620 --> 00:57:42,540
I just think that's a little bit
less likely, but certainly not 

1160
00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:44,140
something we can discard, not 
remotely. 

1161
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,160
So he did something that's a 
little unusual that you wouldn't

1162
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,760
necessarily see a lot of 
generals do, which is split your

1163
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:57,080
army into three, especially when
you are already kind of small 

1164
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,800
like you normally you would 
think strength in numbers, you 

1165
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,000
know, three Dragons together. 
Like who's going to possibly 

1166
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,240
stop that? 
On the other hand, who's going 

1167
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,600
to stop one dragon in this era? 
Until they started getting an 

1168
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,120
understanding of how to stop 
Dragons, which they never really

1169
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,680
did during the conquest. 
The Dornish maybe did, but that 

1170
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:17,880
was we'll call that separate. 
Hit them as hard as you can 

1171
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,000
before they figure out what few 
options they even have before 

1172
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,520
they start putting scorpions on 
every castle wall. 

1173
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,600
Take as many castles as you can.
You know, before they get to 

1174
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:29,240
that point where they're like, 
okay, now we at least have 

1175
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,880
something that might stop a 
dragon. 

1176
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,000
At this point they might not 
have anything at all. 

1177
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,880
Their chance of victory is like 
0 percent, or killing a dragon 

1178
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,360
is perhaps 0%. 
So maybe get a lucky arrow and 

1179
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:43,280
kill a rider. 
But. 

1180
00:58:44,340 --> 00:58:48,980
That's a pretty thin hope to 
rest everything on, so you can 

1181
00:58:48,980 --> 00:58:52,900
both see why it's a little 
unusual in terms of standard 

1182
00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:55,860
military planning. 
Not necessarily that unusual, 

1183
00:58:55,860 --> 00:58:57,860
but it's not what you would 
usually see so. 

1184
00:58:58,060 --> 00:59:00,220
But it also maybe keeps them 
safer in some ways. 

1185
00:59:00,220 --> 00:59:02,980
It doesn't put all your eggs, 
your egg ONS, in one basket. 

1186
00:59:04,860 --> 00:59:07,940
Also, if he's choosing targets 
well, if he's choosing battles, 

1187
00:59:07,940 --> 00:59:12,210
he know that he can win. 
You get more troops flipped to 

1188
00:59:12,210 --> 00:59:16,050
your side more quickly, right? 
And you also have this momentum 

1189
00:59:16,050 --> 00:59:20,370
that other people can't ignore. 
And you know it's it is. 

1190
00:59:20,570 --> 00:59:23,850
There are some risks to it, but 
I think the reward far outweighs

1191
00:59:23,850 --> 00:59:25,690
the risks in this scenario. 
OK, yeah. 

1192
00:59:25,770 --> 00:59:27,930
And I think you could pretty 
reasonably plan for what would 

1193
00:59:27,930 --> 00:59:29,090
happen. 
I don't know if he knew, he 

1194
00:59:29,090 --> 00:59:31,490
could probably predicted that 
Heron would haul himself up in 

1195
00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:33,850
his big castle that he just 
spent 40 years building that 

1196
00:59:33,850 --> 00:59:36,770
he's really proud of. 
Like that's not some genius 

1197
00:59:37,290 --> 00:59:42,310
insight. 
Meanwhile, the The Reach and the

1198
00:59:42,310 --> 00:59:46,510
Westerlands bringing out all 
their big ass armies, that's 

1199
00:59:46,510 --> 00:59:48,830
also fairly predictable. 
They have huge amounts of 

1200
00:59:48,830 --> 00:59:53,710
manpower they'll probably 
expecting each Kingdom to rely 

1201
00:59:53,710 --> 00:59:56,230
on. 
Their strength is. 

1202
00:59:56,790 --> 00:59:59,150
Again, that's not some genius 
insight, They just kind of 

1203
00:59:59,470 --> 01:00:02,310
expected them to do the thing 
that they're best at and they 

1204
01:00:02,310 --> 01:00:04,830
knew that that Agon and his 
sister knew that wouldn't be 

1205
01:00:04,830 --> 01:00:06,390
enough to beat them. 
And like, yeah, they're going to

1206
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:08,900
do what they do best. 
And they're what they're their 

1207
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:12,100
best is not good enough. 
So there you go. 

1208
01:00:13,740 --> 01:00:17,180
Nina also writes, interestingly,
that the trust, the level of 

1209
01:00:17,180 --> 01:00:20,540
trust here between Egon and his 
sister, wives, he could send 

1210
01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:22,380
them out. 
And I don't just mean, and she 

1211
01:00:22,380 --> 01:00:25,580
doesn't just mean trust, like 
are they going to turn on me and

1212
01:00:25,580 --> 01:00:27,980
be traitors? 
But that is a little bit of a 

1213
01:00:27,980 --> 01:00:29,940
part of it. 
Mostly it's just like, are they 

1214
01:00:29,940 --> 01:00:32,260
capable enough to do this? 
Right. 

1215
01:00:32,580 --> 01:00:35,710
Trust their competence? 
Yes, and the answer is clearly 

1216
01:00:35,710 --> 01:00:37,590
yes. 
There's there seems to be 0 

1217
01:00:37,590 --> 01:00:39,630
doubt like he had. 
It seems like he had ultimate 

1218
01:00:39,630 --> 01:00:42,350
confidence in them, and 
presumably vice versa. 

1219
01:00:43,350 --> 01:00:44,950
That was something we talked 
about earlier too. 

1220
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:50,190
The idea that this is a perfect 
storm of things had to come 

1221
01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:52,710
together for Aegon to make this 
conquest you right. 

1222
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:55,550
There may have been some 
Targaryen with Dragons in the 

1223
01:00:55,550 --> 01:00:58,630
past with this ambition, but he 
didn't have two other dragon 

1224
01:00:58,630 --> 01:01:01,590
riders. 
It even if he did have or she 

1225
01:01:01,590 --> 01:01:05,610
had two other dragon riders. 
Didn't necessarily trust them to

1226
01:01:06,130 --> 01:01:08,850
not turn on them or to manage it
properly or not just burn 

1227
01:01:08,850 --> 01:01:10,810
everything down. 
And you know, they they had. 

1228
01:01:11,050 --> 01:01:14,930
They had to have this, this big 
foe that people would be happy 

1229
01:01:14,930 --> 01:01:18,930
to get beaten in Heron. 
Had to have trusted people close

1230
01:01:18,930 --> 01:01:22,210
to you with Dragons to make the 
move and to have a certain 

1231
01:01:22,210 --> 01:01:23,770
ambition. 
Maybe you also have to have the 

1232
01:01:23,930 --> 01:01:25,930
the dream to give you motivation
on and on. 

1233
01:01:25,930 --> 01:01:29,210
So you might cause you might 
have, you know some powerful 

1234
01:01:29,210 --> 01:01:32,850
faction of Lords might be like, 
Hey Rainy's your second fiddle 

1235
01:01:32,850 --> 01:01:35,410
here. 
Maybe we'll put make you queen 

1236
01:01:35,410 --> 01:01:39,450
over your brother and other 
sister and that may have been. 

1237
01:01:39,450 --> 01:01:42,370
I don't think that was a 
motivation for Agon to marry 

1238
01:01:42,370 --> 01:01:45,650
Rainy's as well as Vicenia, but 
it might have been an added 

1239
01:01:45,650 --> 01:01:50,370
bonus that it helps keep them 
even more as a unit, rather than

1240
01:01:52,090 --> 01:01:54,490
creates the possibility of 
another branch forming. 

1241
01:01:55,010 --> 01:01:57,330
A branch that I didn't even 
think of the idea go to war with

1242
01:01:57,330 --> 01:01:58,730
his, which ended up happening 
anyway. 

1243
01:01:58,730 --> 01:02:01,450
Rainy Sis and Visenna's lines 
both went against each other 

1244
01:02:01,450 --> 01:02:04,650
anyway, so. 
I didn't consider true that it 

1245
01:02:04,650 --> 01:02:08,410
might have been another thing. 
He was thinking ahead that there

1246
01:02:08,410 --> 01:02:11,050
are going to be some Lords that 
offer marriages to them. 

1247
01:02:11,870 --> 01:02:13,230
No, I'm marrying them. 
Yes. 

1248
01:02:13,830 --> 01:02:15,190
We're not having an alliance 
through marriage. 

1249
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:16,390
We're having an alliance through
submission. 

1250
01:02:16,550 --> 01:02:18,390
Yes. 
Don't even ask for my sister's 

1251
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:19,910
hand what an oops that would be 
like. 

1252
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:22,750
He's got Vasenia is his wife. 
They got the two big Dragons and

1253
01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:24,830
then all of a sudden Morakshi's 
go rainy. 

1254
01:02:24,830 --> 01:02:27,390
Some Maraxis Mary's, I don't 
know the Lord of Castor rock. 

1255
01:02:27,390 --> 01:02:29,750
And they start like like in 
house the dragon where they 

1256
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:31,350
start building another dragon 
pit over there. 

1257
01:02:31,350 --> 01:02:33,590
All of a sudden the land is 
trying to get golden haired, 

1258
01:02:33,790 --> 01:02:36,430
green eyed. 
Targaryen's popping out and it's

1259
01:02:36,430 --> 01:02:38,620
like, well, we really screwed 
that up, didn't we? 

1260
01:02:38,620 --> 01:02:40,660
Like I really should have 
married my sister, you know, my 

1261
01:02:40,660 --> 01:02:43,580
other sister too, you know, But 
yeah, you could totally see that

1262
01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:45,620
coming. 
Like of course we hear that 

1263
01:02:45,620 --> 01:02:47,260
Eggman was just like really into
rainies too. 

1264
01:02:47,260 --> 01:02:49,620
So that that's probably even 
more important than anything 

1265
01:02:49,620 --> 01:02:51,300
else. 
But it doesn't have to be just 

1266
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:55,580
one reason he could have been 
like, well, This is why I'm 

1267
01:02:55,580 --> 01:02:57,620
going to marry you and not just 
have, you know, maybe he would 

1268
01:02:57,620 --> 01:02:59,940
have just kept her as a lover or
something. 

1269
01:02:59,940 --> 01:03:03,300
I don't know. 
Who knows what the go back and 

1270
01:03:03,300 --> 01:03:05,420
forth between them on a personal
level and how that went, 

1271
01:03:05,420 --> 01:03:06,780
especially with Pizania in the 
mix. 

1272
01:03:07,970 --> 01:03:11,930
And that's a thing too. 
Like if Rainy's is an egg on, 

1273
01:03:11,930 --> 01:03:14,850
are the ones who are actually, 
like, really close in terms of 

1274
01:03:14,850 --> 01:03:17,730
intimacy? 
Apparently Visenna didn't have a

1275
01:03:17,730 --> 01:03:19,690
big problem with that. 
Or if it wasn't that big of a 

1276
01:03:19,690 --> 01:03:22,290
problem for her, because that 
might have been an issue of 

1277
01:03:22,290 --> 01:03:24,930
like, loyalty as well, maybe. 
But apparently nothing ever 

1278
01:03:24,930 --> 01:03:28,130
seems to happen with that. 
So except for her, you know, 

1279
01:03:28,130 --> 01:03:30,850
being willing to slice his face 
open to prove a point. 

1280
01:03:30,850 --> 01:03:34,170
So maybe there's a little, a 
little of that anger in there 

1281
01:03:35,030 --> 01:03:38,270
that came out in that moment. 
By the way, you asked kind of 

1282
01:03:38,270 --> 01:03:40,710
rhetorical, like, who knows what
went on between and I'm like 

1283
01:03:41,150 --> 01:03:43,830
Oris might know the major 
Dragonstone might. 

1284
01:03:43,830 --> 01:03:44,950
That's a good point. 
George knows. 

1285
01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:47,670
Come on George, tell us Some 
people know some servants that 

1286
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:49,990
kind of get ignored might have 
let have heard some things. 

1287
01:03:51,310 --> 01:03:57,510
So here's the next quote that 
tells us what the three groups 

1288
01:03:57,510 --> 01:04:02,630
of armies were headed off to do.
The greater part of his host 

1289
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:06,880
crossed the Blackwater Rush. 
Making S for Storm's End under 

1290
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,920
the command of Oris Baratheon, 
Queen Rainey's accompanied him 

1291
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:15,000
astride Maraxis of the Golden 
Eyes and Silver Scales. 

1292
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,320
The Targaryen fleet under Damon 
Valerian left Blackwater Bay and

1293
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,160
turned N for Gold Town and the 
Vale. 

1294
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,120
With them went Queen Visenna and
Vega. 

1295
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,720
The king himself marched 
northwest to the God's eye and 

1296
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,320
Heron Hall, the gargantuan 
fortress that was the Pride. 

1297
01:04:34,710 --> 01:04:37,470
And obsession of King Hair in 
the Black. 

1298
01:04:38,110 --> 01:04:42,390
All three of the Targaryen 
thrusts faced fierce opposition.

1299
01:04:42,750 --> 01:04:45,710
We'll focus on each of the 
thrusts individually, starting 

1300
01:04:45,710 --> 01:04:48,630
with Eggons. 
For a couple of reasons. 

1301
01:04:48,630 --> 01:04:50,870
It's the way we've been framing 
this. 

1302
01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:53,990
It makes sense, for all we've 
set up is talk about him going 

1303
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:55,430
to knock off the biggest bully 
first. 

1304
01:04:55,430 --> 01:04:58,310
So we don't actually know which 
of these things happen first, 

1305
01:04:58,550 --> 01:05:00,470
but I do think it probably did 
happen first cuz it was the 

1306
01:05:00,470 --> 01:05:03,280
closest target. 
You know, Heron Hall's closer to

1307
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,360
King's Landing or the site that 
becomes King's Landing. 

1308
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,200
Then Storm's End is certainly 
closer than the Veil. 

1309
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,240
So the Veil. 
I can feel pretty confidently 

1310
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,240
the Veil was the last of these, 
but what order we do them in 

1311
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:15,880
doesn't necessarily matter that 
much. 

1312
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,600
Either way, we're going to do 
Agon first, but for a couple of 

1313
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,320
things. 
First though, Morocci's just 

1314
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,920
sounds so stunning as a dragon. 
Golden eyes and silver scales, 

1315
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,520
like the black dread says a lot,
but it it's not. 

1316
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:34,400
It's the size and menacing 
features, not the coloration. 

1317
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,400
I mean, maybe being pitched 
black makes it a little more 

1318
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,440
menacing, but golden eyes and 
silver scales? 

1319
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,040
That just sounds beautiful. 
Just like, wondrously amazing. 

1320
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:45,920
A little bit like Sunfire, 
perhaps? 

1321
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,120
Sunfire, considered the the most
beautiful dragon of of the dance

1322
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,320
era. 
Well, I feel like Maraxis was 

1323
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,720
probably the most beautiful of 
this era. 

1324
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,000
It just sounds like it. 
Just wow, right? 

1325
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:03,360
And Nina points out as well, 
something I think we've pointed 

1326
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,960
out before. 
It's more of a theoretical thing

1327
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,760
that's now come true. 
We always wondered if Vega's 

1328
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,760
color would create a pairing 
Danny's Dragons with Aegon's 

1329
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:15,440
Dragons. 
When Vega's color was finally 

1330
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,840
revealed, indeed it did create a
loose pairing. 

1331
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,800
It's not 100% overlap, but it's 
very close. 

1332
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,670
We got Drogan and Valerian 
black. 

1333
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:27,670
Drogan is black and red. 
I'm not sure Balerian is red, 

1334
01:06:27,710 --> 01:06:29,870
has any of the red, but 
whatever, mostly black. 

1335
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:32,150
That's pretty similar. 
It's extremely similar. 

1336
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:36,550
Vissarian is like goldish, 
creamish silver, like a light, 

1337
01:06:36,550 --> 01:06:40,270
pale kind of color. 
So it's metallicish, which is 

1338
01:06:40,590 --> 01:06:44,190
similar as to the silver. 
And then we've got a Veigar 

1339
01:06:44,190 --> 01:06:49,760
who's more of a pale green and 
Regal who's darker green with 

1340
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,240
bronze colors. 
So there's the green, the 

1341
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,800
metallicy lightish color and the
black. 

1342
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:57,760
So they're like I said, not 
exactly 1 to one, but pretty 

1343
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,720
close and probably on purpose. 
It's hard to imagine that that 

1344
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,000
was just a coincidence by 
George, the three Dragons being 

1345
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,880
so similar like that. 
So what does that actually mean 

1346
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,240
in terms of this parallel? 
Well I guess it apart from 

1347
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,860
deepening with Danny Agon 
parallels but what does it mean 

1348
01:07:14,860 --> 01:07:16,180
specifically? 
Well I don't know. 

1349
01:07:16,180 --> 01:07:18,020
We'll have to see. 
Does it how does it say anything

1350
01:07:18,020 --> 01:07:21,460
about who the eventual riders 
will be Does their name say 

1351
01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:25,900
anything about that like Regal 
versus Raygar and Raygo and yeah

1352
01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:29,900
I don't know but great fertile 
ground for theorizing is 

1353
01:07:29,900 --> 01:07:31,340
something the fandom has 
wondered about a lot. 

1354
01:07:31,580 --> 01:07:33,780
But interestingly you've only 
had that confirmation for a 

1355
01:07:33,780 --> 01:07:36,700
little while now that they GAR 
is green to really be sure that 

1356
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:39,820
this that this was even possible
because if George been like 

1357
01:07:39,820 --> 01:07:42,870
actually they GAR is blue or red
or something like that, we'd be 

1358
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:47,270
like well that's just right out 
then that doesn't fit at all but

1359
01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:49,190
he left it just close enough 
that you could make that 

1360
01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:53,390
comparison. 
All right, let's do take a few 

1361
01:07:53,390 --> 01:07:57,950
questions and do our mid roll 
business and then get back to 

1362
01:07:57,990 --> 01:08:01,540
it. 
Lady Ray with a followup from 

1363
01:08:01,540 --> 01:08:03,260
your intro there. 
Sean, let's start with that. 

1364
01:08:03,260 --> 01:08:06,220
She says my point was more about
the maesters as a whole and less

1365
01:08:06,220 --> 01:08:08,540
about a singular maester. 
The Citadel has very strong 

1366
01:08:08,540 --> 01:08:11,100
opinions about what is worth 
paying attention to and surely 

1367
01:08:11,100 --> 01:08:13,380
do not listen to just anyone who
was a Maester. 

1368
01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:16,460
So when did a truly cohesive 
narrative begin, corroborated by

1369
01:08:16,460 --> 01:08:19,580
many, many learned men? 
When did become worthy history 

1370
01:08:19,580 --> 01:08:21,500
and not a footnote? 
OK, yeah, I like that framing of

1371
01:08:21,500 --> 01:08:24,060
the question. 
The the first take Sean had was 

1372
01:08:24,060 --> 01:08:27,000
a good thing point to make and 
discuss, but this getting a 

1373
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,000
little drilled in and more 
specific also makes a lot of 

1374
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,120
sense. 
Like would the may, would the 

1375
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,520
Archmaesters even believe what 
this Meister was telling them as

1376
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,240
part of one thing she's 
suggesting. 

1377
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,439
The other thing is, well if we 
have several Meisters over a 

1378
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,040
century at Dragonstone, 
eventually the point would be 

1379
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,200
like, well this this Meister 
said the same thing as the last 

1380
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:44,600
Meister and the same as the last
Meister. 

1381
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,479
Or do they end up being sent to 
the wall like Amen for getting a

1382
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,399
little too getting a little too 
mystical and magical about it. 

1383
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,160
A lot depends on who is in 
charge. 

1384
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,090
Like, it's academia in a sense, 
but it's way more powerful than 

1385
01:08:58,090 --> 01:08:59,770
academia. 
And anyone who's experienced 

1386
01:08:59,770 --> 01:09:05,850
academia knows like, well, just 
like any business or corporation

1387
01:09:05,850 --> 01:09:09,970
or industry or group of any 
kind, there's like a internal 

1388
01:09:09,970 --> 01:09:13,890
culture that determines a lot of
what they like and don't like. 

1389
01:09:14,410 --> 01:09:17,930
And that culture at this point 
for us to determine what the 

1390
01:09:17,930 --> 01:09:21,090
maesters were like is pretty 
hard for us to guess at. 

1391
01:09:21,090 --> 01:09:23,609
We can kind of assume it's been 
similar to how it's always been,

1392
01:09:24,260 --> 01:09:27,020
but their attitudes towards 
Dragons are always a common 

1393
01:09:27,020 --> 01:09:28,660
feature of our discussing of 
them. 

1394
01:09:28,660 --> 01:09:31,660
And this is maybe before they 
had established a lot of those 

1395
01:09:31,660 --> 01:09:35,180
attitudes because they hadn't 
seen the destructive power of 

1396
01:09:35,180 --> 01:09:39,060
Dragons unleashed on the 
continent, something that became

1397
01:09:39,060 --> 01:09:40,340
a problem. 
They're like, well, look at all 

1398
01:09:40,340 --> 01:09:42,620
the times the Dragons went to 
war like the dance was. 

1399
01:09:42,620 --> 01:09:44,420
We got to not let that happen 
again. 

1400
01:09:44,500 --> 01:09:47,819
It was so destructive. 
They may not have been thinking 

1401
01:09:47,819 --> 01:09:50,600
this way back at this time. 
They didn't know about all that 

1402
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,240
destruction, or they'd only read
about it. 

1403
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:54,279
It would have been in books. 
They'd read about the Valyrian 

1404
01:09:54,279 --> 01:09:58,640
wars and some of them, some few,
might have been like, this is 

1405
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,920
serious. 
Like I've read about what 

1406
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,120
Dragons can do, and I have every
reason to believe these sources 

1407
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:04,560
and it to them it isn't just a 
book. 

1408
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,120
It's like, no, this could really
happen. 

1409
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,240
They might be in the minority 
though. 

1410
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:10,680
The other ones are more focused 
on like what's in front of them 

1411
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,390
and things that are more clear 
and present, dangers or crops 

1412
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:17,070
and winter and things that are 
still really important. 

1413
01:10:17,070 --> 01:10:20,350
And they're worried about the 
what this war would do to the 

1414
01:10:20,350 --> 01:10:23,030
continent and less about the 
specifically the Dragons. 

1415
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:25,390
Eventually they might be like, 
oh, it's not just this war 

1416
01:10:25,390 --> 01:10:27,390
ravaging the country, these 
Dragons are ravaging the 

1417
01:10:27,390 --> 01:10:28,990
country. 
They're the worst part of it. 

1418
01:10:29,470 --> 01:10:31,310
I don't know what their 
attitudes are, just saying 

1419
01:10:31,310 --> 01:10:33,350
there's a lot of possibilities 
and we can't, we have to start 

1420
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:37,310
fresh rather than going back to 
the old, oh, the ministers want 

1421
01:10:37,310 --> 01:10:40,710
to kill the Dragons like this is
this is before that maybe? 

1422
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:45,790
One thing we can maybe suppose 
we talked about the idea that 

1423
01:10:45,790 --> 01:10:49,750
Aegon just showed up and said, 
I'm king now, so you have all 

1424
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:53,150
these these Lords, these kings 
who've been there for thousands 

1425
01:10:53,150 --> 01:10:56,190
of years. 
Like, sure, dude, who are you? 

1426
01:10:56,190 --> 01:10:59,630
Right? 
And you can imagine that the 

1427
01:10:59,630 --> 01:11:03,350
Gardeners and the High Towers 
probably had a similar opinion, 

1428
01:11:03,630 --> 01:11:06,510
and they probably had a lot of 
influence over the Citadel. 

1429
01:11:07,150 --> 01:11:10,590
The Maester at Castle Rock 
probably would have been In Sync

1430
01:11:10,590 --> 01:11:13,910
with the Lannister in charge. 
You know they if the the kings 

1431
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:15,510
around the realm are kind of 
blowing them off. 

1432
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:20,350
The maesters may have also, they
might have taken more effort to 

1433
01:11:20,350 --> 01:11:23,150
write stuff down than the Lord 
would have, but they still might

1434
01:11:23,150 --> 01:11:26,510
not have had the same. 
Sort of like everything's 

1435
01:11:26,510 --> 01:11:29,670
changed now until that that 
first battle and people get 

1436
01:11:29,670 --> 01:11:31,030
burned up or whatever that it 
might have. 

1437
01:11:32,210 --> 01:11:35,370
So some real actions started. 
It might have, they might not 

1438
01:11:35,370 --> 01:11:38,170
have really been paying enough 
attention and recording it 

1439
01:11:38,170 --> 01:11:41,370
properly, giving it the proper 
credence and or Aegon might have

1440
01:11:41,370 --> 01:11:43,890
been keeping it on wraps too. 
He might have been keeping the 

1441
01:11:43,890 --> 01:11:45,530
main streets from knowing what 
his plans were. 

1442
01:11:46,290 --> 01:11:48,690
Right on. 
Well, well said and thanks for 

1443
01:11:48,690 --> 01:11:51,450
the clarification, Lady Ray. 
Very insightful comments there, 

1444
01:11:51,970 --> 01:11:55,010
Dornish Dame says. 
I wonder if Agon got Oris to spy

1445
01:11:55,010 --> 01:11:56,610
for him. 
He was obviously trusted and was

1446
01:11:56,610 --> 01:12:00,130
black haired, so his lack of 
dragon and valerian looks would 

1447
01:12:00,130 --> 01:12:02,090
have enabled him to blend in 
better than Agon and his 

1448
01:12:02,090 --> 01:12:03,530
sisters. 
Interesting. 

1449
01:12:03,530 --> 01:12:05,210
He wouldn't have necessarily 
been famous. 

1450
01:12:05,770 --> 01:12:08,130
Yeah, Oris most likely wouldn't 
have met, wouldn't have met with

1451
01:12:08,130 --> 01:12:10,810
high lores. 
But I think we see in Davos 2 in

1452
01:12:10,810 --> 01:12:13,010
the Dance Dragons how much info 
can be learned despite blending 

1453
01:12:13,010 --> 01:12:14,930
in with the small folk and 
listening to gossip. 

1454
01:12:15,170 --> 01:12:16,930
That's a great point. 
Davos 2 is in a Tavern. 

1455
01:12:16,930 --> 01:12:23,020
There it that's White Harbor. 
And yeah, he does learn a lot. 

1456
01:12:23,020 --> 01:12:27,820
He's also at a Tavern and the 
sisters and three sisters. 

1457
01:12:29,260 --> 01:12:32,340
So that's a great point. 
Yeah, Orius is there's other, 

1458
01:12:32,340 --> 01:12:35,380
perhaps members of his court 
that don't look necessarily 

1459
01:12:35,380 --> 01:12:38,900
look, Valerian, we're not sure 
who had the Valerian looking, 

1460
01:12:38,900 --> 01:12:40,220
who didn't. 
Amongst some of these other, 

1461
01:12:40,220 --> 01:12:42,420
like the House Coheries, I kind 
of assume they did. 

1462
01:12:43,460 --> 01:12:46,900
But that's not a sure thing. 
They might have had some 

1463
01:12:47,460 --> 01:12:50,580
marriages to other families that
started producing some non 

1464
01:12:51,220 --> 01:12:55,580
Valyrian looking children. 
I mean everybody acknowledges 

1465
01:12:55,580 --> 01:12:57,940
how different the story would be
if Jon Snow looked like his 

1466
01:12:57,940 --> 01:13:01,100
father. 
Assuming it's regular like oops,

1467
01:13:01,420 --> 01:13:03,260
can't hide that kid. 
You're going to have to, you 

1468
01:13:03,260 --> 01:13:05,180
have to get a little more 
creative than that, Ned. 

1469
01:13:05,180 --> 01:13:08,020
You can't just say, oh that's my
kid, no, that's not going to fly

1470
01:13:08,020 --> 01:13:11,620
bro. 
We discussed. 

1471
01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:13,620
I like to. 
I just want to say real quick, I

1472
01:13:13,620 --> 01:13:18,120
like to imagine the idea that. 
The Aegon took Ory's in the 

1473
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:22,920
middle of the night on Valerian,
drop them off at Lannis Port and

1474
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:26,280
an Ory's goes into Lannis Port 
and hangs out in the Taverns to 

1475
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,880
get information, while Aegon 
goes to Hightower or whatever 

1476
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:32,640
and then picks Ory's back up in 
the middle of the night. 

1477
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,920
Would you find out? 
Yeah, I wonder if Ory's has ever

1478
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,080
written on a dragon. 
We know that there are cases 

1479
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,280
where someone you know a dragon 
had a second person riding with 

1480
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:43,960
them. 
We see it in Harris's time. 

1481
01:13:45,730 --> 01:13:48,570
If any dragon could have a 
second second person on their 

1482
01:13:48,570 --> 01:13:51,090
back, it's Valerian. 
I mean if Verma Thor could do it

1483
01:13:51,210 --> 01:13:55,090
and and Quicksilver could do it 
or Silverwing, then yeah, no 

1484
01:13:55,090 --> 01:14:02,370
problem for Valerian. 
Next question comes from Night 

1485
01:14:02,370 --> 01:14:05,690
of Peaches on our Discord. 
Would Valerian have been 

1486
01:14:05,690 --> 01:14:08,810
murdered back in old Valeria? 
This references our discussion 

1487
01:14:08,810 --> 01:14:11,850
that Valerian was unusually 
large, and as a way to Is it 

1488
01:14:11,850 --> 01:14:16,250
possible that we know that there
was lots of assassinations 

1489
01:14:16,250 --> 01:14:17,930
between the great houses of 
Elyria? 

1490
01:14:18,010 --> 01:14:19,410
That's a thing. 
In fact, it's one of the 

1491
01:14:19,410 --> 01:14:22,250
theories for why the doom 
happened was that enough of the 

1492
01:14:22,530 --> 01:14:25,370
house sorcerers were killed that
they were unable to hold back 

1493
01:14:25,370 --> 01:14:29,850
the the force of the geothermal 
vents that they had been holding

1494
01:14:29,850 --> 01:14:32,370
back with sorcery for so long. 
All that finally came to a head 

1495
01:14:32,370 --> 01:14:36,250
with one gigantic explosion Goes
to show just how much pressure 

1496
01:14:36,250 --> 01:14:39,090
was being held back if that 
large of an explosion happened. 

1497
01:14:39,890 --> 01:14:45,530
So it certainly fits that if you
have assassination of sorcerers,

1498
01:14:45,530 --> 01:14:50,650
of Lords, of dragon riders, why 
not assassinate a dragon as well

1499
01:14:50,650 --> 01:14:52,610
if it's looking like it's going 
to be a particularly large 

1500
01:14:52,610 --> 01:14:55,170
dominant dragon? 
See, you don't want that as 

1501
01:14:55,170 --> 01:14:57,010
another house. 
You don't want that house to 

1502
01:14:57,810 --> 01:15:02,090
gain the benefit of what that 
large dragon would do for you, 

1503
01:15:02,090 --> 01:15:03,450
and so you kill it when it's 
young. 

1504
01:15:03,970 --> 01:15:05,090
Probably a lot of ways to do 
that. 

1505
01:15:05,090 --> 01:15:08,010
Bribe a dragon keeper? 
I don't know. 

1506
01:15:08,010 --> 01:15:10,890
There's who knows the kinds of 
weird sorceries and techniques 

1507
01:15:10,890 --> 01:15:14,330
they used back in old Valeria, 
but it's probably doable. 

1508
01:15:14,770 --> 01:15:19,250
I like the idea a lot as like a 
world building point to make for

1509
01:15:19,250 --> 01:15:21,690
Valeria. 
Whether true or not, I could see

1510
01:15:21,690 --> 01:15:26,290
it fitting very well in. 
My mind when you ask. 

1511
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:30,230
Why not assassinated Dragon 
Like, Well, sure, you go ahead 

1512
01:15:30,230 --> 01:15:33,070
and do it. 
We're talking about hatchling 

1513
01:15:33,070 --> 01:15:34,630
here, but even yeah, even 
hatchling might. 

1514
01:15:34,630 --> 01:15:37,950
Be a little scary. 
Still, still might be too much 

1515
01:15:37,950 --> 01:15:39,910
like Nah. 
I don't want to mess with a baby

1516
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:44,270
tiger. 
Yeah. 

1517
01:15:44,270 --> 01:15:46,790
I don't want to mess with a baby
Komodo dragon. 

1518
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:47,510
You know those things. 
Yeah. 

1519
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:52,230
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also sign up, but you can also 
go to our website. 

1550
01:17:25,180 --> 01:17:27,340
There's other ways to support 
the show other than Patreon, if 

1551
01:17:27,340 --> 01:17:30,060
you prefer to do that. 
We've got a lot of options 

1552
01:17:30,060 --> 01:17:32,220
there. 
You could go buy a shirt that is

1553
01:17:32,220 --> 01:17:37,540
true, and that's right, That is 
historyofwesteros.threadless.com.

1554
01:17:38,020 --> 01:17:40,340
And I know Ashea has got a new 
idea for shirt to put up there 

1555
01:17:40,340 --> 01:17:44,220
pretty soon, so we'll keep that 
under wraps until it's ready. 

1556
01:17:44,220 --> 01:17:49,020
But she had a cool idea for a 
custom shirt, and I'm excited to

1557
01:17:49,020 --> 01:17:52,260
be able to describe that to you 
all when the time is right. 

1558
01:17:52,260 --> 01:17:53,860
It's not quite there yet, 
though. 

1559
01:17:55,460 --> 01:17:58,500
I like to just. 
The the black shirt with the red

1560
01:17:58,500 --> 01:18:01,460
and white history of Westeros, 
with the the Wherewood branch. 

1561
01:18:01,500 --> 01:18:02,820
I really like that. 
That one's cool. 

1562
01:18:03,060 --> 01:18:06,220
Yeah, I do like that one too, 
because the the Wherewoods look 

1563
01:18:06,220 --> 01:18:09,220
cool on black. 
Just it looks so creepy and dark

1564
01:18:09,220 --> 01:18:10,460
and neat. 
Yeah, it does look good. 

1565
01:18:11,940 --> 01:18:13,980
All right, let's talk about 
Speaking of black, talk about 

1566
01:18:13,980 --> 01:18:16,220
her in the black. 
Let's review why he's so 

1567
01:18:16,220 --> 01:18:18,500
unpopular. 
His his family prior to him, 

1568
01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:20,940
like we we've gone over while he
was unpopular, he was a tyrant 

1569
01:18:20,940 --> 01:18:22,700
and all that. 
But it isn't just him, it's his 

1570
01:18:22,700 --> 01:18:26,390
family. 
His father tried and failed to 

1571
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:28,870
expand the to most of his 
attempts to expand the Kingdom. 

1572
01:18:28,870 --> 01:18:31,990
There was a few things he was 
successful at, but mostly he led

1573
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:35,430
a bunch of failed attacks 
against places that you could 

1574
01:18:35,430 --> 01:18:37,670
guess were bad ideas. 
Like he tried to attack the Veil

1575
01:18:37,670 --> 01:18:39,270
a few times. 
Like the Bloody Gate is the 

1576
01:18:39,270 --> 01:18:40,150
reason it's called the Bloody 
Gate. 

1577
01:18:40,150 --> 01:18:44,070
What makes you so special that 
you can overcome these enormous 

1578
01:18:44,070 --> 01:18:47,030
geographical constraints? 
Well, nothing. 

1579
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:48,750
In fact, nothing makes you that 
special. 

1580
01:18:49,230 --> 01:18:55,170
Hallek was his name. 
Hallekor and possible Dune 

1581
01:18:55,170 --> 01:18:58,290
reference there, naming that guy
Halleck as in Gurney Halleck. 

1582
01:18:58,290 --> 01:19:02,450
But George is a fan of Dune. 
Halleck was Heron's father. 

1583
01:19:03,130 --> 01:19:05,690
Halleck's father was named 
Harwin Hardhand. 

1584
01:19:05,970 --> 01:19:10,690
Harwin Hardhand is like a 
George's version of Harold 

1585
01:19:10,690 --> 01:19:18,090
Hardrada from the the Viking 
King who was also a Byzantine 

1586
01:19:18,090 --> 01:19:22,040
guard and did all this. 
His life is really interesting 

1587
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,960
and lots of stories have been 
written about him, so no wonder 

1588
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,120
George used that as inspiration 
for Harwin Hardhand. 

1589
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:31,640
Has Daniely Bolili done an 
episode on him? 

1590
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,240
I think he's mentioned him, but 
I don't. 

1591
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:35,000
Think he's a type of material? 
Typically, yeah, that would be a

1592
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:36,160
good one. 
That's history on fire. 

1593
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:37,880
Y'all. 
If that reference went over your

1594
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:43,040
head could show a friend of ours
we've collaborated with a number

1595
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,580
of times. 
So thrall them used in the area 

1596
01:19:46,580 --> 01:19:51,340
and in general obviously this is
a big no no for Westeros. 

1597
01:19:51,340 --> 01:19:54,380
So not only is he a tyrant, but 
he's breaking all these 

1598
01:19:54,380 --> 01:19:56,460
traditions. 
He follows a religion that isn't

1599
01:19:56,460 --> 01:19:59,180
very popular that's not well, 
like it's one thing to follow 

1600
01:19:59,180 --> 01:20:00,660
the old God. 
People kind of respect the old 

1601
01:20:00,660 --> 01:20:02,020
gods even if they don't worship 
them. 

1602
01:20:03,100 --> 01:20:06,060
The mainland doesn't really give
a fig about the Drown God. 

1603
01:20:06,060 --> 01:20:10,740
They they kind of think of it 
the way Macoro probably does. 

1604
01:20:10,740 --> 01:20:12,820
The Drown God is some demon, you
know? 

1605
01:20:12,860 --> 01:20:15,140
He's like they. 
He's not a deity that needs to 

1606
01:20:15,140 --> 01:20:17,060
be placated. 
It's some evil being that lives 

1607
01:20:17,060 --> 01:20:20,140
under the sea that you should be
wary of but not worship. 

1608
01:20:21,220 --> 01:20:23,540
That seems to be pretty similar 
to a lot of Westeros views. 

1609
01:20:23,540 --> 01:20:27,060
The Drowned God I think. 
Maybe not quite that specific 

1610
01:20:27,060 --> 01:20:29,300
and not something you maybe 
would say to a group of ironborn

1611
01:20:29,300 --> 01:20:31,460
to their faces unless you have 
an army behind you. 

1612
01:20:32,300 --> 01:20:36,660
But yeah, definitely one of many
things that makes him unpopular.

1613
01:20:38,260 --> 01:20:41,530
The the drown God's chosen 
people Plus there it's kind of 

1614
01:20:41,530 --> 01:20:46,690
like you know some religions 
have this as part of their dogma

1615
01:20:47,050 --> 01:20:50,890
that they're the one true 
religion that the followers of 

1616
01:20:50,890 --> 01:20:53,450
this religion are going to 
inherit the earth. 

1617
01:20:54,410 --> 01:20:57,770
There's a few real religions 
like that where there it's it's 

1618
01:20:57,930 --> 01:21:00,050
framed that way or marketed that
way. 

1619
01:21:00,050 --> 01:21:02,410
If you want to get a little more
cynical or realistic depending 

1620
01:21:02,490 --> 01:21:04,650
on how you want to see it, if 
you see maybe you're cynical 

1621
01:21:04,650 --> 01:21:11,800
enough to see that as realistic 
And well with that in mind the 

1622
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,640
Drown God's religion is one of 
those that is one of those 

1623
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:17,280
religions that says that you 
know, the meek shall inherit the

1624
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:21,720
earth but erase meek and say 
followers of the Drown God shall

1625
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,080
inherit the earth. 
So they believe it's their duty 

1626
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,560
to conquer the world, their 
religious duty. 

1627
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,800
Now not everyone follows that 
religion that closely but a 

1628
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,960
leader whose conquest oriented 
loves to have that on his side, 

1629
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,000
like my people want to do this 
because it's their religion. 

1630
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,920
So all he's got to do is kind of
coop that and sort of guide that

1631
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:45,080
energy in the right direction 
and you've got a big old 

1632
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:47,120
Kingdom. 
I mean it's the biggest, it's 

1633
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:50,800
it's bigger than the reach at 
this point in in history, this 

1634
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,240
Kingdom. 
I think it's close. 

1635
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:55,040
We'll say it's not more 
populist, though. 

1636
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,800
The fact that it's even close to
the size of the reach, if not 

1637
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:02,280
larger, is just maybe is a point
you hadn't realized, which just 

1638
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:09,000
points out just how large this, 
this Kingdom is and basically 

1639
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:10,360
everyone. 
So everyone's basically a slave 

1640
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:13,240
like you're you've been 
conquered by a people whose 

1641
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:17,920
belief system says this is 
right, we deserve to conquer you

1642
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:19,840
and rule you. 
So they're not going to treat 

1643
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:22,600
you well. 
They think they're superior 

1644
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,000
based on their religion. 
It's a deeply held belief that 

1645
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:28,760
they're superior to you and that
they're allowed to enslave you. 

1646
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,560
Enthrall you is the right word. 
Yeah. 

1647
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:37,760
So it's pretty, pretty darn bad.
Heron Hall took 40 years to 

1648
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,840
build. 
And so he's all this time he's 

1649
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:45,060
ruining the Riverlands, you 
know, bleeding a try, Nina says.

1650
01:22:45,060 --> 01:22:47,100
I wonder if George was partly 
inspired by the old myth of 

1651
01:22:47,100 --> 01:22:48,780
slaves constructing the Egyptian
pyramids. 

1652
01:22:48,820 --> 01:22:50,580
You know, the biblical stories 
there. 

1653
01:22:51,660 --> 01:22:55,140
That's not actually true. 
They are noticed, Nina said. 

1654
01:22:55,140 --> 01:22:58,780
Myth there that it's not 
accurate, but it is a popular 

1655
01:22:58,780 --> 01:23:01,580
misconception, which is 
something wrong with drawing on 

1656
01:23:01,580 --> 01:23:03,940
popular misconceptions to put in
your stories. 

1657
01:23:03,940 --> 01:23:05,660
Cuz it's fiction in the 1st 
place. 

1658
01:23:05,660 --> 01:23:09,210
What's wrong with drawing on it?
It's just drawing on existing 

1659
01:23:09,210 --> 01:23:11,930
fiction, drawing on existing 
world myth, drawing on reality. 

1660
01:23:12,010 --> 01:23:14,690
They're all inspirations, 
they're all good sources for 

1661
01:23:14,690 --> 01:23:21,650
creating a realistic world 
around your fantasy setting, and

1662
01:23:21,650 --> 01:23:24,010
it just fits really well. 
It fits in a fantasy setting to 

1663
01:23:24,010 --> 01:23:30,130
have virtually enslaved people 
laboring under these extremely 

1664
01:23:30,130 --> 01:23:32,970
harsh conditions to make this 
huge edifice. 

1665
01:23:34,250 --> 01:23:38,700
Valeria Heron Hall. 
It's these things are kind of 

1666
01:23:38,700 --> 01:23:40,900
the same right. 
And it's kind of funny that that

1667
01:23:41,140 --> 01:23:44,300
Aegon of Valyrian is the one 
kind of setting these people 

1668
01:23:44,300 --> 01:23:48,460
free from that when his own 
people were known for doing that

1669
01:23:48,460 --> 01:23:52,940
for way longer than 40 years. 
Try 4000 years is still too 

1670
01:23:52,940 --> 01:23:55,300
short for that. 
It's longer than that even. 

1671
01:23:57,140 --> 01:23:59,940
But not only was he offending 
the seven, he was cutting down 

1672
01:23:59,940 --> 01:24:02,740
wherewoods to make Heron also he
was pissing off the north too. 

1673
01:24:02,740 --> 01:24:05,860
So this is this guy really just 
made enemies everywhere, but he 

1674
01:24:05,860 --> 01:24:08,720
also wanted to conquer everyone.
Agon also wanted to conquer 

1675
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:10,560
everyone, but he was a little 
nicer about it. 

1676
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,320
He didn't trample on their 
beliefs and traditions. 

1677
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:18,240
In fact, he made a point to 
uphold their beliefs and 

1678
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:20,320
traditions for the most part, 
whenever possible. 

1679
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:27,120
I want to maybe defend Agon a 
little and say that it's not so 

1680
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,440
much that he wanted to conquer 
everyone, is that he wanted to 

1681
01:24:30,440 --> 01:24:34,080
unite the continent, and to do 
that maybe need to conquer 

1682
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,080
everyone. 
But Agon didn't have some like. 

1683
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,880
You know, altruistic ideal of 
establishing more peace across 

1684
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,840
the land through organization or
saving everyone from a prophecy 

1685
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:51,480
of doom in the future. 
He was just violent and greedy, 

1686
01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:52,880
you know? 
Yeah. 

1687
01:24:53,080 --> 01:25:00,280
And if you factor in how he 
behaved afterwards, yeah, like 

1688
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,360
he didn't try to codify things 
at all. 

1689
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:05,040
He mostly just let the regions 
be different. 

1690
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:07,200
And that started to become a 
problem over time. 

1691
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:08,520
But his descendants had to deal 
with that. 

1692
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:09,880
It wasn't a problem so much for 
him. 

1693
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:15,760
So the unification was more of a
gradual thing like, which makes 

1694
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:16,880
sense. 
You just can't force all this 

1695
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:18,680
change all at once. 
One step at a time? 

1696
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:24,760
Yeah, exactly. 
So Heron had just done the 

1697
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:27,440
opposite of all this. 
He just shat on everyone's 

1698
01:25:27,440 --> 01:25:31,920
beliefs, traditions, you know, 
made them suffer. 

1699
01:25:32,390 --> 01:25:33,790
Pretty easy to turn that against
him. 

1700
01:25:33,950 --> 01:25:36,510
I wonder you know his his 
another black. 

1701
01:25:36,510 --> 01:25:38,590
Here we have hair in the black 
we have the black dread. 

1702
01:25:38,590 --> 01:25:41,630
We have the color black for the 
Targaryens for their their 

1703
01:25:41,630 --> 01:25:44,950
house. 
We talked about taking the black

1704
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:46,950
is another phrase that comes up 
in Westeros. 

1705
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:50,990
The actual first mention of hair
in the black in all of A Song of

1706
01:25:50,990 --> 01:25:56,190
Ice and Fire was on the wall. 
A mention of his brother and how

1707
01:25:56,190 --> 01:25:58,110
his brother when Egg on the 
Conqueror came. 

1708
01:26:00,540 --> 01:26:04,380
Heron's brother was Lord 
Commander of the Knights Watch 

1709
01:26:04,460 --> 01:26:10,260
and he did nothing like a good 
Lord Commander of the Knights 

1710
01:26:10,260 --> 01:26:12,860
Watch is supposed to do. 
He didn't show any loyalty to 

1711
01:26:12,860 --> 01:26:17,460
his brother and just did the 
thing in Knights Watch Lord 

1712
01:26:17,460 --> 01:26:19,780
Commander supposed to do. 
He ignored the troubles of the 

1713
01:26:19,780 --> 01:26:23,260
realm and focused N on what 
might be coming from there. 

1714
01:26:24,100 --> 01:26:26,580
Couple of points on that. 
Some of these will require us to

1715
01:26:26,580 --> 01:26:30,370
expand on later. 
One of them is how ironic it is 

1716
01:26:30,690 --> 01:26:34,090
that Aegon's The King's Peace 
destroyed the Knight's Watch, 

1717
01:26:34,930 --> 01:26:39,530
which is very ironic given that 
he is supposed to supposedly, 

1718
01:26:39,530 --> 01:26:43,290
supposedly trying to protect the
entire realm from a future 

1719
01:26:43,290 --> 01:26:46,090
invasion by the Other. 
So hamstringing the Knight's 

1720
01:26:46,090 --> 01:26:49,410
Watch and undermining their 
manpower is an odd way of going 

1721
01:26:49,410 --> 01:26:52,930
about that, but it's kind of 
something he didn't exactly 

1722
01:26:52,930 --> 01:26:55,890
predict or manage properly. 
It was inadvertent. 

1723
01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:57,610
He didn't. 
He didn't do it on purpose, 

1724
01:26:57,650 --> 01:26:59,170
Exactly. 
I mean, why would he do that on 

1725
01:26:59,170 --> 01:27:00,330
purpose if it makes no sense? 
Yeah. 

1726
01:27:01,290 --> 01:27:05,730
And so I have to think that it's
almost like, well, he didn't 

1727
01:27:05,730 --> 01:27:07,290
interfere. 
Even when it was his brother, he

1728
01:27:07,290 --> 01:27:10,010
was like, did Aaron's brother 
actually like him? 

1729
01:27:10,010 --> 01:27:12,610
Would he have interfered even if
it wasn't a taboo? 

1730
01:27:12,890 --> 01:27:15,290
Like, why was this guy on the 
wall? 

1731
01:27:15,490 --> 01:27:19,460
Like, was it because it was the 
only way to keep his brother 

1732
01:27:19,460 --> 01:27:21,460
from killing him? 
Like, this is a guy that doesn't

1733
01:27:21,460 --> 01:27:22,580
trust anyone? 
Probably. 

1734
01:27:22,580 --> 01:27:24,980
Is he going to trust his own 
brother to not usurp him? 

1735
01:27:25,700 --> 01:27:28,700
It's probably one of the few 
places his brother could be safe

1736
01:27:28,700 --> 01:27:33,300
in this world. 
It's like I've forsaken all 

1737
01:27:33,300 --> 01:27:35,780
claims, bro. 
Seriously. 

1738
01:27:35,780 --> 01:27:41,220
I'm no threat to you like climb 
on the wall now because I mean 

1739
01:27:41,220 --> 01:27:44,740
Aaron probably like Halleck may 
have killed one of his brothers 

1740
01:27:44,740 --> 01:27:46,920
to take over and I think Heron 
killed one. 

1741
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:49,000
I think Heron killed his older, 
may have killed one of his older

1742
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:52,600
brothers. 
It's it's it's not certain which

1743
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:54,960
it probably was exactly what 
happened. 

1744
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,320
So if you're going to kill your 
own brother to take over that 

1745
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:00,560
you're probably the type that 
will be suspicious of your own 

1746
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:04,040
brothers doing that to you. 
Like a lot of people who are 

1747
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:06,160
dishonest, expect other people 
to be dishonest. 

1748
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:09,320
You know, it's kind of one of 
those things like you are you 

1749
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:12,480
see people kind of through the 
filter of your own personality. 

1750
01:28:13,690 --> 01:28:17,010
So I'm not sure Heron's brother 
would have given a crap about 

1751
01:28:17,010 --> 01:28:19,130
helping her in the 1st place. 
Like, no, hell no, I'm not 

1752
01:28:19,130 --> 01:28:21,130
helping him. 
Even if I could, I wouldn't have

1753
01:28:21,130 --> 01:28:22,810
done it anyway. 
You're gonna get you're gonna 

1754
01:28:22,810 --> 01:28:25,810
praise me for this. 
I'll take the praise, but I 

1755
01:28:26,250 --> 01:28:30,160
really don't deserve it. 
Convenient praise to earn. 

1756
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:33,440
Yeah, yeah, he's like, I'll take
all your acclamations, but man, 

1757
01:28:33,440 --> 01:28:37,000
I would not have done a thing. 
I would not have sent him one 

1758
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:40,640
onion. 
He gets nothing. 

1759
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,280
Not a not a single spearhead for
me. 

1760
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:47,600
Yeah. 
Now remember too, this isn't the

1761
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:54,160
first time we've had an outsider
or a a tyrant ruling over the 

1762
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,360
river lands. 
Nina reminds us of House Teague 

1763
01:28:57,330 --> 01:29:00,450
when, back in their day, various
River Lords had risen up against

1764
01:29:00,450 --> 01:29:07,330
King Humphrey Teague and 
welcomed Eric the 3rd to Arlen 

1765
01:29:07,330 --> 01:29:12,090
the Third rather Durindon to 
help him. 

1766
01:29:12,090 --> 01:29:16,450
He was going to come in and kick
out Humphrey Teague, but he 

1767
01:29:16,450 --> 01:29:18,450
didn't leave. 
He came in and kicked out the 

1768
01:29:18,530 --> 01:29:20,170
king they didn't want with their
help. 

1769
01:29:20,170 --> 01:29:21,730
And then he's like now I've got 
you. 

1770
01:29:21,730 --> 01:29:24,710
You helped me come in and I'm 
not going to leave and they fell

1771
01:29:24,710 --> 01:29:26,590
for it again with with Heron's 
grandfather. 

1772
01:29:26,590 --> 01:29:29,870
Cuz Heron's grandfather kicked 
out the kicked out the storm 

1773
01:29:29,870 --> 01:29:35,030
Landers and then also decided to
stay and betrayed the river 

1774
01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:38,790
Lords there. 
So fool them twice, shame on 

1775
01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:40,670
them. 
Although to be fair these were 

1776
01:29:40,670 --> 01:29:45,110
like 300 years apart so still 
fool them twice. 

1777
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:49,430
Shame on them. 
Here is a another quote that 

1778
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:53,110
kind of summarizes a lot of what
we've said into a nice succinct 

1779
01:29:53,380 --> 01:29:57,700
point about the attitude of the 
River Lords quote. 

1780
01:29:58,180 --> 01:30:00,380
Though House Whore had ruled the
river lands for three 

1781
01:30:00,380 --> 01:30:03,100
generations, the men of the 
Trident had no love for their 

1782
01:30:03,100 --> 01:30:05,500
ironborn. 
Overlords here in the black had 

1783
01:30:05,500 --> 01:30:08,260
driven thousands to their deaths
in the building of his great 

1784
01:30:08,260 --> 01:30:11,460
castle of Heron Hall, plundering
the river lands for materials 

1785
01:30:11,460 --> 01:30:13,780
and beggaring the Lords and 
small folk alike with his 

1786
01:30:13,780 --> 01:30:16,180
appetite for gold. 
Now what did he do with all that

1787
01:30:16,180 --> 01:30:17,900
gold? 
Was that just like decorating 

1788
01:30:17,900 --> 01:30:19,660
his castle with it? 
Because there's one thing to 

1789
01:30:19,660 --> 01:30:23,040
just cut down the wherewoods 
because you need rafters for 

1790
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:24,640
your castle. 
But it sounds like he was also 

1791
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:28,360
just making it as fancy as he 
could, evidence of which would 

1792
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,240
have been destroyed by Blerion 
quickly out there after, which 

1793
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:32,760
is maybe why we don't hear about
it so much. 

1794
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:38,720
So again, we have this parallel 
to maybe AG on the 6th. 

1795
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:43,280
Who's going to come into this 
realm when it's in chaos and be 

1796
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:46,920
the the guy to settle it all 
down and kind of put people back

1797
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:49,520
on a path towards peace and 
stability again, only for maybe 

1798
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:53,280
Danny to come in and maybe 
things would get thrown off 

1799
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:54,680
again. 
Maybe the others throw that off 

1800
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:55,800
first. 
I don't know what order these 

1801
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,160
things are going to happen in, 
but you can see how it's a very 

1802
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:02,920
strong parallel where you have 
unpopular kings, whether it's 

1803
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:05,880
you're on might be our best 
parallel for Heron depending on 

1804
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,520
what kind of in routes he makes 
how what kind of success he has.

1805
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,680
Cersei, not the most popular 
ruler ever. 

1806
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:16,040
And so there's a lot of 
unpopular people that could be 

1807
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:20,840
cast as sort of a heronish type 
that the Kingdom will be glad to

1808
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:23,980
be rid of. 
And that allows the savior 

1809
01:31:23,980 --> 01:31:26,780
figure, whether it's Aegon the 
six, whether it's Danny, whether

1810
01:31:26,780 --> 01:31:30,420
it's both of them in different 
arcs, kind of playing this role 

1811
01:31:30,940 --> 01:31:35,700
of using that acclaim, using 
that leverage that everyone's 

1812
01:31:35,700 --> 01:31:39,140
giving them to vault themselves 
to greater heights of power. 

1813
01:31:39,140 --> 01:31:41,220
Once they've once they're the 
savior, once they've proven 

1814
01:31:41,220 --> 01:31:44,220
themselves, once they're the 
hero, it's pretty easy to to 

1815
01:31:45,580 --> 01:31:48,140
utilize that to rise even 
higher, to make yourself king or

1816
01:31:48,140 --> 01:31:50,300
queen or what have you. 
And Stannis was sort of trying 

1817
01:31:50,300 --> 01:31:52,460
to do that. 
It just didn't work out. 

1818
01:31:52,620 --> 01:31:55,460
And now he's trying to do it 
again, trying to be a savior for

1819
01:31:55,460 --> 01:31:56,700
the realm. 
And like, well, I'm trying to 

1820
01:31:56,700 --> 01:31:58,180
save the Kingdom, to be the 
king. 

1821
01:31:58,180 --> 01:32:01,300
You know, Like, yeah, that is 
that is a good way to do it. 

1822
01:32:01,300 --> 01:32:04,500
Like, there's other criticisms 
we could throw out there, but 

1823
01:32:05,500 --> 01:32:08,100
that is a pretty good way to, it
seems like honorable, like be 

1824
01:32:08,100 --> 01:32:09,780
the savior. 
Like, if you really are the 

1825
01:32:09,780 --> 01:32:12,580
savior, instead of just casting 
yourself in that role, if you 

1826
01:32:12,660 --> 01:32:15,700
actually save the realm, you do 
deserve. 

1827
01:32:16,140 --> 01:32:19,090
I don't know to be king 
necessarily, but you deserve a 

1828
01:32:19,090 --> 01:32:22,290
hero's status and everything 
that comes with that which might

1829
01:32:22,330 --> 01:32:25,010
mean being king. 
What? 

1830
01:32:25,730 --> 01:32:28,090
What other criticisms are there 
of Stannis? 

1831
01:32:28,250 --> 01:32:34,690
I'm confused. 
So before Agon could actually 

1832
01:32:34,690 --> 01:32:38,890
face Heron, Heron, you know, had
already just kind of let him 

1833
01:32:38,890 --> 01:32:41,530
take Dusk and Dale and these 
other spots. 

1834
01:32:43,090 --> 01:32:45,890
Here's what I'll describe why it
makes almost makes sense for 

1835
01:32:45,890 --> 01:32:50,460
Heron to wait. 
I think if Aaron's unless 

1836
01:32:50,500 --> 01:32:54,060
Aaron's a total dummy, he had to
realize the political say, the 

1837
01:32:54,060 --> 01:32:55,940
situation. 
That is, if he calls his 

1838
01:32:55,940 --> 01:33:00,060
banners, they might not come. 
He doesn't want to look. 

1839
01:33:00,060 --> 01:33:01,740
He doesn't want to have that 
embarrassment. 

1840
01:33:01,740 --> 01:33:03,260
He doesn't want to look that 
weak. 

1841
01:33:03,820 --> 01:33:07,700
So make him come to me. 
Maybe something else goes wrong.

1842
01:33:08,340 --> 01:33:12,220
Maybe he dies before then. 
Maybe he meets his end at my 

1843
01:33:12,220 --> 01:33:13,980
castle. 
This is where we're strongest. 

1844
01:33:15,170 --> 01:33:16,650
It's it's kind of a power move 
of itself. 

1845
01:33:16,650 --> 01:33:19,410
He's like, I don't, I don't care
about what you do on my borders,

1846
01:33:19,970 --> 01:33:23,250
you know, come face me, you 
know, and then we'll see what 

1847
01:33:23,250 --> 01:33:25,530
happens. 
And so it's kind of like 

1848
01:33:25,530 --> 01:33:28,050
responding to Aegon's boss 
attitude with the boss attitude 

1849
01:33:28,050 --> 01:33:29,130
of his own. 
It's like let's settle this 

1850
01:33:29,130 --> 01:33:32,730
between us rather than, yeah, 
you took some, some of my lesser

1851
01:33:32,730 --> 01:33:34,170
castles. 
Like, what does that mean? 

1852
01:33:34,170 --> 01:33:36,610
That's nothing like this is the 
real showdown is going to come 

1853
01:33:36,610 --> 01:33:41,800
between us. 
But that said, he tried a few 

1854
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,840
things before Aegon got to Heron
Hall. 

1855
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:51,400
One major thing, and his goal 
may have been, well, by the time

1856
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,120
Aegon comes to me, well, he 
doesn't have a lot of men. 

1857
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:56,520
Again, he's still not clear on 
the power of the dragon and 

1858
01:33:56,520 --> 01:33:59,880
exactly what he can do, so he's 
still thinking in terms of more 

1859
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:02,360
conventional warfare. 
Like, well, Aegon doesn't have a

1860
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:06,480
lot of soldiers, so if I could 
just like have a few smaller 

1861
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:09,860
battles and whittle down his 
army, how's he going to besiege 

1862
01:34:09,860 --> 01:34:12,940
this gigantic castle I have if 
his army isn't large enough? 

1863
01:34:12,940 --> 01:34:16,380
Like, sieges are hard and long 
and slow and he feels 

1864
01:34:16,380 --> 01:34:19,100
invulnerable to a siege because 
of the size of his castle and 

1865
01:34:19,100 --> 01:34:22,100
the size of his supplies and how
much water he has stored and all

1866
01:34:22,100 --> 01:34:24,900
this other stuff. 
So, which is, by the way, 

1867
01:34:24,900 --> 01:34:27,180
another reason not to call his 
entire forest up. 

1868
01:34:27,340 --> 01:34:30,900
If he's going to try to outlast 
egg on through logistical 

1869
01:34:31,260 --> 01:34:35,100
tactics and not having as many 
frontal assaults and things like

1870
01:34:35,100 --> 01:34:38,500
that, let's try to whittle him 
down and wear him down. 

1871
01:34:39,660 --> 01:34:42,300
That's where there's maybe some 
intelligence behind all this. 

1872
01:34:42,300 --> 01:34:44,940
I'm not sure if that's what it 
was or if it may have just been 

1873
01:34:44,940 --> 01:34:48,420
pure pride and arrogance. 
It's easily could just be that. 

1874
01:34:48,420 --> 01:34:50,700
But I'd like to explore 
alternatives. 

1875
01:34:51,180 --> 01:34:52,820
Maybe this guy is a complete 
dummy. 

1876
01:34:54,250 --> 01:34:57,650
It's probably a mix, like he 
probably is arrogant, but also 

1877
01:34:57,650 --> 01:35:00,330
he does have this big castle. 
Even if you're not arrogant, why

1878
01:35:00,330 --> 01:35:01,890
did you build this big castle? 
This is it. 

1879
01:35:01,930 --> 01:35:04,770
This is the way you built it for
and even if it even with 

1880
01:35:04,770 --> 01:35:07,890
Dragons, if it if it was like 
Drogan and Rhagar or whatever, 

1881
01:35:08,210 --> 01:35:09,690
it kind of burned hair and haul 
down. 

1882
01:35:09,690 --> 01:35:14,490
It took Balerian right? 
So he he was almost right. 

1883
01:35:14,490 --> 01:35:17,410
He just happened to not really 
truly understand Balerian. 

1884
01:35:17,410 --> 01:35:20,450
But aside from that, I think it 
was the right move. 

1885
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:22,630
Yeah, yeah. 
And and facing blaring in the 

1886
01:35:22,630 --> 01:35:25,870
field wouldn't have been better,
you know, like, how's that 

1887
01:35:25,870 --> 01:35:28,070
better? 
Yeah, like the if you the more 

1888
01:35:28,070 --> 01:35:30,870
troops you put in your army, the
easier it is for the dragon to 

1889
01:35:30,870 --> 01:35:34,710
burn a lot of them at once. 
So this is also a sign of 

1890
01:35:34,710 --> 01:35:36,630
intelligence. 
This next move we have here. 

1891
01:35:36,790 --> 01:35:39,630
Well, if you can't face a dragon
on a battlefield, what you got 

1892
01:35:39,630 --> 01:35:44,110
to use other means. 
And so they're marching along 

1893
01:35:44,110 --> 01:35:46,230
the shore of the God's eye 
towards Heron Hall. 

1894
01:35:46,550 --> 01:35:48,670
What happens? 
They get attacked. 

1895
01:35:48,750 --> 01:35:52,220
A night attack. 
It was called the Battle of the 

1896
01:35:52,220 --> 01:35:55,620
Reeds. 
Has nothing to do with Howland 

1897
01:35:56,060 --> 01:36:00,220
and Mira and Jojin. 
It's no, not some sort of 

1898
01:36:00,220 --> 01:36:02,060
internal Gray Water Watch 
conflict. 

1899
01:36:02,060 --> 01:36:04,020
These are the actual reeds we're
talking about. 

1900
01:36:04,020 --> 01:36:06,300
You know, those little things 
that stick out of the water in 

1901
01:36:06,300 --> 01:36:10,180
lakes and rivers. 
I get the impression that 

1902
01:36:10,180 --> 01:36:11,980
Valerian had nothing to do with 
this battle. 

1903
01:36:12,020 --> 01:36:16,260
It was a night attack on ships. 
They apparently used muffled 

1904
01:36:16,260 --> 01:36:21,080
oars to get really close and 
this battle was repelled. 

1905
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:23,040
So this first battle, there's 2 
battles that we're going to 

1906
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:23,840
describe here. 
Battle. 

1907
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,440
The reeds didn't go that well 
for the attackers. 

1908
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:30,480
The targetians repelled them. 
Maybe Balerians saw them coming.

1909
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:33,600
I say he wasn't involved in the 
direct battle that we know of, 

1910
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:37,360
but again, seeing them or or 
make smelling them or something 

1911
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:40,400
is possible and I would 
understand a dragon not being 

1912
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:41,880
able to join a battle in the 
reeds. 

1913
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:46,810
I fight a dragon would not take 
my dragon into a swamp like 

1914
01:36:46,810 --> 01:36:48,730
that. 
Seems like a bad idea, like one 

1915
01:36:48,730 --> 01:36:49,850
of the few things that can go 
wrong. 

1916
01:36:49,850 --> 01:36:54,090
Dragon's feet gets stuck might 
actually be fatal, like it might

1917
01:36:54,130 --> 01:36:57,370
get very stuck and not be able 
to get out. 

1918
01:36:57,370 --> 01:36:59,970
Probably not that bad. 
Not to mention, if you've got 

1919
01:36:59,970 --> 01:37:02,970
boats sneaking up on other 
boats, All right, what's Blair 

1920
01:37:02,970 --> 01:37:04,850
and do now? 
Burn up the bad guys and the 

1921
01:37:04,850 --> 01:37:07,810
good guys all together? 
Blair can maybe give the warning

1922
01:37:07,810 --> 01:37:11,650
because seeing them from above 
by flying but getting mixed up 

1923
01:37:11,650 --> 01:37:12,650
and it would have been 
difficult. 

1924
01:37:13,310 --> 01:37:18,230
So it's the Targaryens are given
by history, the win in this 

1925
01:37:18,230 --> 01:37:20,670
battle, but we don't really know
if there were a lot of 

1926
01:37:20,670 --> 01:37:25,710
casualties or maybe the Ironborn
accomplished their goal even 

1927
01:37:25,710 --> 01:37:28,070
though they were repelled. 
It may have been like a probing 

1928
01:37:28,070 --> 01:37:29,830
attack. 
See how they would respond, see 

1929
01:37:30,070 --> 01:37:33,390
what kind of defenses they would
mount like test their mettle. 

1930
01:37:35,430 --> 01:37:38,550
The next battle was called the 
Battle of the Wailing Widows. 

1931
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,280
This is the one where they 
definitely snuck up with muffled

1932
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:43,600
doors. 
We're not as clear on what 

1933
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:45,760
happened in the Battle of the 
Reefs, but it was almost 

1934
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:49,320
certainly a night attack. 
So they snuck up with muffled 

1935
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:53,040
doors. 
They came to shore, climbed out 

1936
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:56,200
and attacked the Targaryen camp.
And this was a successful 

1937
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:57,480
surprise attack. 
That's why I'm guessing it was 

1938
01:37:57,480 --> 01:37:59,520
at night. 
If you're going to go fighting 

1939
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:02,640
against the dragon, do it at 
night right, like Dragon can't 

1940
01:38:02,640 --> 01:38:04,560
see you again. 
The problem of friendly fire 

1941
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:08,770
comes up like we saw it at We 
got a little tease of a dragon 

1942
01:38:08,770 --> 01:38:12,210
battle at night with episode 
three of House of the Dragon, 

1943
01:38:12,210 --> 01:38:15,050
where Damon's just kind of 
clambering around to the beach 

1944
01:38:15,050 --> 01:38:16,890
yelling for Crab Feeder come out
and fight him. 

1945
01:38:17,170 --> 01:38:21,450
They shoot flaming arrows at him
when he's exposed, stuff like 

1946
01:38:21,450 --> 01:38:25,050
that. 
Like a lot of Caraxi's 

1947
01:38:25,050 --> 01:38:27,010
advantages were muted by being 
dark. 

1948
01:38:27,530 --> 01:38:30,010
Same thing would be true for 
Balerian, maybe even more so 

1949
01:38:30,130 --> 01:38:34,130
because Balerian's larger, less,
more, maybe more cumbersome, 

1950
01:38:34,170 --> 01:38:37,450
especially if it's by the shore.
We talk about swamps and reeds 

1951
01:38:37,450 --> 01:38:42,490
and uneven ground, and yeah, 
just a good smart place to 

1952
01:38:42,490 --> 01:38:43,930
attack from if you're the 
Ironborn. 

1953
01:38:44,970 --> 01:38:47,810
Except for they didn't really 
think it through. 

1954
01:38:48,170 --> 01:38:52,610
Yes, the attack was successful, 
but it was less successful than 

1955
01:38:52,610 --> 01:38:55,330
the counterattack. 
Yeah, because. 

1956
01:38:56,030 --> 01:38:58,510
Usually you could just run away 
from another army and they might

1957
01:38:58,510 --> 01:39:01,470
have a hard time tracking you 
down, but the dragon can track 

1958
01:39:01,470 --> 01:39:03,670
you down. 
You can only go so far. 

1959
01:39:03,670 --> 01:39:05,870
So many places. 
The dragon just spiral out so 

1960
01:39:05,870 --> 01:39:07,110
they see you. 
Yeah. 

1961
01:39:07,350 --> 01:39:10,270
So that's exactly what happened.
I'm guessing tents were 

1962
01:39:10,270 --> 01:39:13,310
attacked, horses were scattered,
supplies were destroyed. 

1963
01:39:13,630 --> 01:39:17,990
Maybe a little something like 
Ramsey and his 20 good men 

1964
01:39:18,470 --> 01:39:20,790
getting amongst Stannis's army. 
Something like that, but a 

1965
01:39:20,790 --> 01:39:22,350
little, maybe a little more 
realistic version. 

1966
01:39:22,790 --> 01:39:25,430
Probably was more than 20 good 
men, probably a lot more than 

1967
01:39:25,430 --> 01:39:27,750
20. 
I mean a bunch of long ships 

1968
01:39:27,750 --> 01:39:31,430
were unloaded. 2 of Heron's sons
led this attack, by the way. 

1969
01:39:31,670 --> 01:39:33,870
And I wonder if this was a 
conversation they had. 

1970
01:39:33,870 --> 01:39:35,710
Heron's like, no, we're gonna 
let them come to us. 

1971
01:39:36,350 --> 01:39:38,430
We're gonna hold up here and 
have a show down here. 

1972
01:39:38,430 --> 01:39:41,620
And some of her and sons were 
like, yeah, but Dad, we can hit 

1973
01:39:41,620 --> 01:39:42,900
them at night. 
We can ambush them. 

1974
01:39:42,900 --> 01:39:44,060
We're Ironborn. 
This is, this is. 

1975
01:39:44,060 --> 01:39:45,420
We're good at this. 
We're Raiders. 

1976
01:39:45,420 --> 01:39:47,580
We're a raiding culture. 
They're right by the water. 

1977
01:39:47,780 --> 01:39:50,860
It's a golden opportunity to hit
them when they don't see it. 

1978
01:39:50,860 --> 01:39:57,340
Coming to use our strengths at 
maximum capacity here, that's 

1979
01:39:57,340 --> 01:40:00,180
what we're good at. 
But again, they didn't fully 

1980
01:40:00,180 --> 01:40:02,100
understand what they were 
reckoning with, so the attack 

1981
01:40:02,100 --> 01:40:04,900
was successful. 
A lot of Targaryens were killed,

1982
01:40:04,900 --> 01:40:06,700
probably maybe as many as like 
1000. 

1983
01:40:06,820 --> 01:40:11,230
It was pretty bad. 
But. 1000 is like a lot. 

1984
01:40:11,230 --> 01:40:14,230
That's like at this point it's. 
10% of their forces, yes, yes, 

1985
01:40:14,230 --> 01:40:16,310
because the majority. 
Literally decimated. 

1986
01:40:16,310 --> 01:40:17,990
Right. 
The majority, yes, the majority 

1987
01:40:17,990 --> 01:40:21,870
of the army was sent S with with
Oris and Rainey's to fight at 

1988
01:40:21,870 --> 01:40:24,430
Storm's End in order to fight 
the storm lands, not just 

1989
01:40:24,430 --> 01:40:26,790
Storm's End. 
So yeah, Aegon took a smaller 

1990
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:28,830
army with him which is yet more 
of a boss move. 

1991
01:40:28,830 --> 01:40:30,590
I was like, no, I don't need 
that many. 

1992
01:40:30,590 --> 01:40:32,910
Even though it's Aaron Hall. 
Like I got Balerian, bro. 

1993
01:40:32,910 --> 01:40:34,550
That's that's really all we need
here. 

1994
01:40:35,070 --> 01:40:38,480
And yeah, so they get away, the 
Ironborn Getaway. 

1995
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:41,680
They get back to their muffled 
or ships and start sailing back 

1996
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:43,320
home, Which to them, that's it. 
They're free. 

1997
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:47,480
They've they've gotten away. 
That's been the truth throughout

1998
01:40:47,480 --> 01:40:49,240
thousands of years of Ironborn 
rating history. 

1999
01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:51,120
They get back to their ships. 
That's it. 

2000
01:40:51,120 --> 01:40:53,240
They've won. 
No, not this time. 

2001
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:56,600
At night, they're still safe. 
They're sailing back. 

2002
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:00,440
But I guess Agon knew it would 
take them more than one night to

2003
01:41:00,440 --> 01:41:02,800
get home, which makes sense. 
The God's eye is huge, and this 

2004
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:05,440
was the southern side of it, so 
they would be sailing all night.

2005
01:41:06,970 --> 01:41:11,570
When dawn arose, they were still
sailing home and visibility 

2006
01:41:11,570 --> 01:41:15,410
came, and Balerian was already 
up there looking for them. 

2007
01:41:15,410 --> 01:41:19,170
So when Light came, Balerian 
easily spotted them on the lake,

2008
01:41:19,450 --> 01:41:24,170
flew over, burned every ship, 
and that was that for two of 

2009
01:41:24,490 --> 01:41:26,610
Heron's sons. 
We don't know how many sons 

2010
01:41:26,610 --> 01:41:29,250
Heron had, but he still had 
multiple left after he had at 

2011
01:41:29,250 --> 01:41:32,490
least two that survived or 
didn't survive. 

2012
01:41:32,490 --> 01:41:33,850
They weren't in the battle at 
all. 

2013
01:41:33,970 --> 01:41:37,630
The two that were were killed 
and the remainder, you know, 

2014
01:41:37,630 --> 01:41:41,030
we're presumably just holed up 
in Erin Hall. 

2015
01:41:41,710 --> 01:41:43,430
One of these might have been his
heir. 

2016
01:41:43,950 --> 01:41:46,630
Who his heir was is a little bit
of a moot point, since they're 

2017
01:41:46,630 --> 01:41:49,550
all going to die. 
But it would have mattered to 

2018
01:41:49,550 --> 01:41:51,270
Heron at the time. 
It would have maybe caused a 

2019
01:41:51,270 --> 01:41:53,750
little. 
Well, you're the new heir now. 

2020
01:41:54,950 --> 01:41:58,390
Whoever this unnamed son was, we
know none of his son's names. 

2021
01:41:59,510 --> 01:42:01,230
So, you know, what are you going
to do? 

2022
01:42:03,540 --> 01:42:08,020
The distance was their undoing. 
Had they attack made this attack

2023
01:42:08,020 --> 01:42:11,100
when Aegon and his army was a 
little closer to Heron Hall, 

2024
01:42:11,100 --> 01:42:13,180
they might have been able to do 
it all in one night before the 

2025
01:42:13,180 --> 01:42:15,340
sunlight comes, and they would 
have gotten back to Heron Hall 

2026
01:42:15,340 --> 01:42:17,100
before Valerian could hunt them 
down. 

2027
01:42:17,460 --> 01:42:19,100
But they just clearly didn't 
plan for this. 

2028
01:42:19,100 --> 01:42:20,380
They just didn't even think of 
it. 

2029
01:42:20,380 --> 01:42:23,300
They didn't even conceive of 
this possibility, most likely, 

2030
01:42:23,300 --> 01:42:27,100
and just shows their 
inexperience in dealing with 

2031
01:42:27,100 --> 01:42:30,350
Dragons. 
I just want to say real quick, 

2032
01:42:30,350 --> 01:42:32,470
I'd rather learn some of the 
names of the mothers in the 

2033
01:42:32,470 --> 01:42:34,910
story than Heron's sons. 
Yeah. 

2034
01:42:35,190 --> 01:42:36,350
Same, same. 
We don't. 

2035
01:42:36,350 --> 01:42:37,350
Yeah. 
We don't know who heron's wife 

2036
01:42:37,350 --> 01:42:39,070
was. 
Maybe he had multiple wives 

2037
01:42:39,070 --> 01:42:41,310
because, like, he's an ironborn 
king. 

2038
01:42:41,310 --> 01:42:43,750
He probably had salt wives and a
rock wife. 

2039
01:42:43,750 --> 01:42:46,070
And, I mean, what would stop 
him, you know? 

2040
01:42:46,630 --> 01:42:49,310
Here's a nice little succinct 
quote to describe the action. 

2041
01:42:49,310 --> 01:42:51,150
I like how George writes it, 
even though we've already 

2042
01:42:51,150 --> 01:42:53,590
described it. 
Let's have this to put a dot on 

2043
01:42:53,590 --> 01:42:55,750
it. 
And the victors at the Wailing 

2044
01:42:55,750 --> 01:42:58,190
Willows. 
Returning across the lake to 

2045
01:42:58,190 --> 01:43:02,190
Heron, Hall were ill prepared 
when Valerian fell upon them out

2046
01:43:02,190 --> 01:43:05,630
of the morning sky. 
Heron's longboats burned. 

2047
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:10,070
So did Heron's sons. 
So an entire squadron slash 

2048
01:43:10,070 --> 01:43:12,230
raiding party completely 
annihilated every single ship 

2049
01:43:12,230 --> 01:43:13,910
burn. 
No survivors, I'm guessing not 

2050
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:18,550
one it sounds like. 
So just extreme superiority over

2051
01:43:18,550 --> 01:43:20,590
wouldn't like not. 
Dragons have superiority over a 

2052
01:43:20,590 --> 01:43:21,990
lot of things, but there's 
really nothing they have more 

2053
01:43:21,990 --> 01:43:24,230
superiority over than wooden 
ships. 

2054
01:43:25,140 --> 01:43:28,180
Like, that's an easy target, 
especially when they don't have 

2055
01:43:28,180 --> 01:43:30,580
scorpions. 
Like when scorpions are put on 

2056
01:43:30,580 --> 01:43:35,580
the deck of a ship, it's a lot 
more of a danger for the dragon,

2057
01:43:35,940 --> 01:43:41,220
but this is before they had 
figured that out, apparently. 

2058
01:43:41,900 --> 01:43:45,140
Also, egg on, no go ahead. 
Putting a scorpion on your ship 

2059
01:43:45,140 --> 01:43:50,070
is probably not. 
Ships are designed in a certain 

2060
01:43:50,070 --> 01:43:53,470
shape and size and weight to fit
the soldiers and the cargo, and 

2061
01:43:53,470 --> 01:43:55,950
for maneuverability, just stick 
a scorpion there. 

2062
01:43:55,950 --> 01:43:59,990
It's probably not as easy to do 
as to say, right, these are long

2063
01:44:00,070 --> 01:44:02,350
ships to you, right? 
They probably, yeah, that's 

2064
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:04,910
These are not. 
They might for that, right? 

2065
01:44:04,910 --> 01:44:07,470
It might not sail properly, It 
might not be weighted, probably.

2066
01:44:07,470 --> 01:44:09,230
It might not be easy to maneuver
the scorpion. 

2067
01:44:09,230 --> 01:44:12,350
That's one of the problems of 
the ship is it's just slow to 

2068
01:44:12,350 --> 01:44:13,950
turn. 
It's just that Dragons are, 

2069
01:44:14,830 --> 01:44:18,120
Dragons are. 
Flying is a big difference but 

2070
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:21,240
compared to like someone on foot
or even a horse even a dragon 

2071
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:24,920
still has to kind of can't like 
hover and turn on a dime like a 

2072
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:27,320
helicopters ships will be even 
worse. 

2073
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:30,680
So unless the scorpion can 
maneuver around, which on a 

2074
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:32,760
little rating long ship, I I 
don't know, man. 

2075
01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:36,200
Yeah. 
Bigger wooden ships that could 

2076
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:40,000
handle maneuverable scorpions 
would also have big sails that 

2077
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:42,520
are even more susceptible. 
The dragon could hot fly in, 

2078
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:45,360
hidden on and on and on. 
It's it's scorpions are not a 

2079
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,120
magic answer to the Dragons. 
They may present more of a 

2080
01:44:48,120 --> 01:44:51,360
threat, but they're not just 
going to like they don't even 

2081
01:44:51,440 --> 01:44:53,480
the battlefield at all. 
Well said. 

2082
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:57,520
Now, Next up, Aegon's use of 
time of day, his use of dusk and

2083
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:02,430
dawn and the time of day for his
timing and to his advantage is 

2084
01:45:02,430 --> 01:45:03,990
something that we're going to 
see a couple times. 

2085
01:45:04,030 --> 01:45:07,390
And it occurs to me that I, when
I was writing this episode, 

2086
01:45:07,390 --> 01:45:10,310
particular, I can't think of 
other examples of that. 

2087
01:45:10,310 --> 01:45:13,550
I can't think of it happening in
The Dance of the Dragons maybe 

2088
01:45:13,550 --> 01:45:15,510
once or twice, but I can't think
of a specific one. 

2089
01:45:15,510 --> 01:45:16,670
I'm going to keep an eye out for
that. 

2090
01:45:17,030 --> 01:45:21,950
Agon may have been a little bit 
smarter about his dragon tactics

2091
01:45:21,950 --> 01:45:23,590
than a lot of other dragon 
riders. 

2092
01:45:23,630 --> 01:45:25,230
Maybe something he learned from 
the books or something that 

2093
01:45:25,230 --> 01:45:27,610
occurred to him. 
But yeah, it's something that's 

2094
01:45:27,610 --> 01:45:29,610
going to come up when he 
actually attacks Aaron Hall too.

2095
01:45:29,610 --> 01:45:34,010
The the picking his time of day 
as part of his strategy. 

2096
01:45:34,010 --> 01:45:35,730
I think it's very interesting. 
Yeah. 

2097
01:45:35,770 --> 01:45:38,050
I don't I don't know of other 
times where that's even come up 

2098
01:45:38,050 --> 01:45:39,450
but Egon use does it multiple 
times. 

2099
01:45:39,450 --> 01:45:43,130
So very good to know maybe 
something that Danny will figure

2100
01:45:43,130 --> 01:45:48,330
out or yeah, I'd be very curious
about that very curious about 

2101
01:45:48,330 --> 01:45:51,290
that. 
It's an important thing in the 

2102
01:45:51,290 --> 01:45:55,950
strategy of Dragons is not just 
where to deploy them, but what 

2103
01:45:55,950 --> 01:45:58,110
time of day. 
Yes, yes. 

2104
01:45:59,390 --> 01:46:02,630
So this had a big effect. 
Maybe the kind of thing that 

2105
01:46:04,870 --> 01:46:10,150
Heron was trying to avoid was 
his own people turning on him 

2106
01:46:10,150 --> 01:46:12,350
because he had to know that he 
wasn't popular. 

2107
01:46:12,350 --> 01:46:14,790
He couldn't possibly be under 
any illusions about that. 

2108
01:46:14,790 --> 01:46:16,790
I I don't think he was a 
complete idiot. 

2109
01:46:17,350 --> 01:46:20,270
I think he was arrogant and 
foolish and maybe naive about a 

2110
01:46:20,270 --> 01:46:22,390
lot of things, but a complete 
but just a dunderhead. 

2111
01:46:22,390 --> 01:46:24,590
I don't know about that. 
That seems that seems wrong. 

2112
01:46:25,310 --> 01:46:28,310
It is possible though. 
It is possible that he was just 

2113
01:46:28,310 --> 01:46:31,110
this proud that he's like, well,
they'll fight for me or else 

2114
01:46:31,110 --> 01:46:33,470
well, Or else what? 
Or else you're going to punish 

2115
01:46:33,470 --> 01:46:35,550
them after you are incinerated? 
Yeah, I don't think so. 

2116
01:46:37,630 --> 01:46:40,550
So even though that battle was a
loss, the whaling widows 

2117
01:46:40,550 --> 01:46:41,390
willows. 
Haha. 

2118
01:46:41,390 --> 01:46:43,750
See, now I'm doing it too. 
The army that won that battle 

2119
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:46,750
was destroyed and it's not hard 
to see who came out ahead and 

2120
01:46:46,750 --> 01:46:47,830
all that. 
Even though there was a little 

2121
01:46:47,830 --> 01:46:50,310
back and forth, ultimately Aegon
came out ahead of that and that 

2122
01:46:50,310 --> 01:46:54,320
may have been the straw that 
broke the Trouts back quote. 

2123
01:46:55,960 --> 01:47:00,160
So now the River Lands rose 
against him, led by Lord Edmund 

2124
01:47:00,160 --> 01:47:03,240
Tully of River Run. 
Summoned to the defense of Heron

2125
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:07,320
Hall, Tully declared for House 
Targaryen instead raised the 

2126
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:10,880
dragon banner over his castle, 
and rode forth with his Knights 

2127
01:47:10,880 --> 01:47:12,920
and Archers to join his 
strength. 

2128
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:17,520
To Aegons, his defiance gave 
heart to the other river Lords. 

2129
01:47:18,180 --> 01:47:22,340
One by one the Lords of the 
Trident renounced Heron and 

2130
01:47:22,340 --> 01:47:27,340
declared for egg on the dragon. 
Blackwoods, Malisters, vances, 

2131
01:47:27,540 --> 01:47:31,260
brackens, pipers, phrase, 
Strongs. 

2132
01:47:31,540 --> 01:47:34,740
Summoning their levees, they 
descended on Heron Hall. 

2133
01:47:34,940 --> 01:47:38,740
So it seems that Heron may have 
gotten a little desperate, or 

2134
01:47:38,740 --> 01:47:41,260
maybe decided he should call his
banners after all. 

2135
01:47:41,260 --> 01:47:44,140
Or maybe he called just a few of
them because it says he summoned

2136
01:47:44,180 --> 01:47:46,860
Lord Tully. 
Doesn't necessarily say he 

2137
01:47:46,860 --> 01:47:49,520
summoned the others, but he 
might have and it just isn't 

2138
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:52,840
mentioned that way. 
But it's Tully who turned 1st 

2139
01:47:52,960 --> 01:47:56,960
and that's huge. 
And apparently that as it says 

2140
01:47:57,160 --> 01:47:58,880
his defiance gave heart to the 
other River Lords. 

2141
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:01,200
They were already thinking it, 
but they were maybe afraid to be

2142
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:03,960
the first. 
Maybe they couldn't go over to 

2143
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:07,000
egg on so quickly, but they were
probably thinking it once the 

2144
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:12,240
tide turned, it turned in a in a
hurry and it seemed to fall 

2145
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:15,800
apart pretty quickly for Heron 
and his Kingdom. 

2146
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:21,460
However, it wasn't lost yet, 
because how few men actually 

2147
01:48:21,460 --> 01:48:23,580
showed up is a little unusually 
small. 

2148
01:48:23,580 --> 01:48:26,380
After the various river Lords 
had gathered, you saw that list.

2149
01:48:26,380 --> 01:48:28,340
That's a list of very famous 
houses. 

2150
01:48:29,220 --> 01:48:32,580
Only 8000 men is what Aegon has 
outside Heron Hall. 

2151
01:48:32,580 --> 01:48:34,540
We know that because of the 
exchange they have. 

2152
01:48:34,540 --> 01:48:36,380
It's like I have 8000 men 
outside your walls and it's 

2153
01:48:36,380 --> 01:48:40,060
like, you know your what's 
outside my walls is no concern 

2154
01:48:40,060 --> 01:48:42,340
to me. 
My walls are tall and huge and 

2155
01:48:42,780 --> 01:48:47,040
super thick. 8000 is actually 
pretty small for encircling 

2156
01:48:47,040 --> 01:48:48,360
force. 
Of course, he never intended to 

2157
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:51,120
encircle it. 
He intended to use Bolerian. 

2158
01:48:51,440 --> 01:48:55,080
But that is another thing that 
might have given given Heron a 

2159
01:48:55,080 --> 01:48:59,320
little bit of confidence. 
Like, that's all that's tiny. 

2160
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:03,400
Like that's not enough for a lot
of smaller castles, you know? 

2161
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:06,080
Like, it's definitely not enough
to for this castle. 

2162
01:49:06,480 --> 01:49:08,960
So he might have been thinking, 
yeah, what are they going to do?

2163
01:49:10,050 --> 01:49:12,250
A lot of them probably talk to 
each other like messages going 

2164
01:49:12,250 --> 01:49:13,970
back and forth. 
Like, is it time to, should we 

2165
01:49:13,970 --> 01:49:15,810
raise our banners for Agon? 
Is that what you're going to do?

2166
01:49:15,810 --> 01:49:17,370
Like, yeah, we got to do that. 
It's time. 

2167
01:49:17,370 --> 01:49:19,570
Yeah, we got secret messages 
back and forth. 

2168
01:49:19,770 --> 01:49:21,890
You wonder if Heron has some 
spies, like, looking out for 

2169
01:49:21,890 --> 01:49:24,010
that sort of thing. 
Like, are they are they plotting

2170
01:49:24,010 --> 01:49:26,250
against me? 
But I don't know if he had that 

2171
01:49:26,250 --> 01:49:30,770
sort of network, if he had 
informers to spy on his own 

2172
01:49:30,770 --> 01:49:32,530
people, or if he was too 
arrogant to do that sort of 

2173
01:49:32,530 --> 01:49:34,610
thing. 
He kept them in control via fear

2174
01:49:34,610 --> 01:49:37,850
rather than spying on them. 
He may have done both. 

2175
01:49:38,410 --> 01:49:39,850
There's a lot we don't know 
about how hair and ran his 

2176
01:49:39,850 --> 01:49:41,330
Kingdom. 
We just know he was a tyrant. 

2177
01:49:42,210 --> 01:49:45,130
So what however it was that 
people were glad to be done with

2178
01:49:45,130 --> 01:49:47,730
it? 
And we do know that he's ravaged

2179
01:49:47,730 --> 01:49:50,930
the lands, right. 
He's just drained the resources.

2180
01:49:51,450 --> 01:49:53,970
You know, probably human 
resources as well. 

2181
01:49:53,970 --> 01:49:56,890
They're just might literally not
have been as many people to 

2182
01:49:56,890 --> 01:49:59,450
send. 
They just have been gone through

2183
01:49:59,450 --> 01:50:02,450
a generation two of probably 
being short on food, short on 

2184
01:50:02,450 --> 01:50:04,250
resources, short, you know, if 
the. 

2185
01:50:05,310 --> 01:50:08,630
If all the strongest, healthiest
men from each village were 

2186
01:50:09,030 --> 01:50:12,710
basically kidnapped and brought 
to build Heron Hall, well, who's

2187
01:50:12,710 --> 01:50:16,510
left in a village to farm and 
and raise kids and etcetera, 

2188
01:50:16,510 --> 01:50:18,350
etcetera. 
So, like, it flash for another 

2189
01:50:18,350 --> 01:50:20,950
generation if someone calls the 
banners, like, all right, we'll 

2190
01:50:20,950 --> 01:50:24,110
send you seven people, I guess, 
you know, like, you're right. 

2191
01:50:24,110 --> 01:50:27,030
Like the Riverlands had been in 
a war first. 

2192
01:50:27,030 --> 01:50:29,670
They had a war 100 years ago to 
overthrow the Storm Kings, and 

2193
01:50:29,670 --> 01:50:31,150
they were ruled by Harwin 
Hardhan. 

2194
01:50:31,150 --> 01:50:33,630
He wasn't a great ruler. 
Like, not very kind. 

2195
01:50:34,110 --> 01:50:38,510
And then the next guy, Halleck 
tried to start all these wars 

2196
01:50:38,510 --> 01:50:40,790
that failed and these were 
mostly riverlanders that were 

2197
01:50:40,790 --> 01:50:42,910
brought to these wars and they 
so a lot of death there. 

2198
01:50:42,910 --> 01:50:46,390
And then you, like you said, two
or three generate whatever 40 

2199
01:50:46,390 --> 01:50:49,310
years is in Westeros times two 
or three generations of 

2200
01:50:49,310 --> 01:50:51,430
thousands of captives dying to 
make this castle. 

2201
01:50:51,430 --> 01:50:55,110
So you're right, there'd be 
Knights and people with money 

2202
01:50:55,110 --> 01:50:58,190
and means would still be around.
Those guys aren't being forced 

2203
01:50:58,190 --> 01:51:02,420
to build the castle, but the 
people, the same people, the 

2204
01:51:02,420 --> 01:51:05,700
same peasants that would be 
called up to fight in the levees

2205
01:51:05,780 --> 01:51:09,100
would be these ones building 
river, building the castle. 

2206
01:51:09,100 --> 01:51:12,220
So you're right there. 
There'd be a severe depletion of

2207
01:51:12,220 --> 01:51:15,100
peasants and commoners and and 
the people on the lower rungs of

2208
01:51:15,100 --> 01:51:18,380
society because they're the ones
that would have no way to get 

2209
01:51:18,380 --> 01:51:25,340
out of being conscripted for for
these workforces, you know, 

2210
01:51:25,340 --> 01:51:30,310
again, basically slavery. 
Add to that, even if they did 

2211
01:51:30,310 --> 01:51:32,230
have more people, you can 
imagine all the reasons why they

2212
01:51:32,230 --> 01:51:34,710
might not have been sent like 
there might have been like even 

2213
01:51:34,710 --> 01:51:38,030
if you know it was like layers 
of Lords, you know, 1 Lords like

2214
01:51:38,030 --> 01:51:40,350
all right, call the banners, 
send your men. 

2215
01:51:40,670 --> 01:51:43,150
His four under Lords might have 
been like, I don't know about 

2216
01:51:43,150 --> 01:51:44,990
this avian guy. 
We're not sending our soldiers, 

2217
01:51:44,990 --> 01:51:46,950
not yet. 
But we don't even have that many

2218
01:51:46,950 --> 01:51:48,630
in the 1st place. 
You know, there'd be plenty of 

2219
01:51:48,630 --> 01:51:52,400
the men just want to sit back 
and see what happens, which is 

2220
01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:55,560
we see that all the time when 
large scale conflicts break out,

2221
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,000
whether it's the War of 5 Kings 
or something like this, people 

2222
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:00,040
sometimes just sit on the 
sidelines for various reasons. 

2223
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:01,360
They decide that's their best 
play. 

2224
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:06,200
Between Heron and a dragon, we 
don't want our people get mixed 

2225
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:07,520
up in this. 
Yeah, yeah. 

2226
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:10,600
And the ones that were willing 
to didn't have that many to 

2227
01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:12,640
send, right? 
And again, we have this problem 

2228
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:15,040
of Lowell. 
Is the realm going to accept 

2229
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:17,160
this guy long term? 
He doesn't even have a son. 

2230
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:21,560
I mean, they might not have the 
confidence in Dragons that that 

2231
01:52:21,560 --> 01:52:23,680
Aegon and his men have learned, 
having seen them in action. 

2232
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:28,240
It goes both ways. 
If you're winning allies and you

2233
01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:30,960
don't know what a dragon can do,
you might not be so quick to 

2234
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:33,760
take that the side of the 
Dragons, because you're not, you

2235
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:35,680
don't actually know just how 
dominant they are. 

2236
01:52:35,920 --> 01:52:37,960
So that cuts both ways. 
Like Heron's not preparing 

2237
01:52:37,960 --> 01:52:40,560
properly because he doesn't know
exactly what he's faced with. 

2238
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:42,400
Well, the the people who are 
sitting on the fence, not sure 

2239
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:43,840
who to fight for, they also 
don't know. 

2240
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:48,100
So that's part of why Aegon does
what he does later. 

2241
01:52:48,180 --> 01:52:53,100
But so to make an example of all
this which really turns the tide

2242
01:52:53,100 --> 01:52:57,180
even for farther, something to 
consider here that's like a side

2243
01:52:57,180 --> 01:52:59,100
note. 
House Malister, they're one of 

2244
01:52:59,100 --> 01:53:00,860
the houses mentioned there that 
the tide turned. 

2245
01:53:00,860 --> 01:53:04,260
I bet they were second or third 
to join. 

2246
01:53:04,420 --> 01:53:07,220
Tully's like the whole point of 
the Malisters existence. 

2247
01:53:07,220 --> 01:53:12,290
There's C guard the point of 
they have that bell that's only 

2248
01:53:12,290 --> 01:53:14,850
supposed to be rung when the 
Ironborn invade. 

2249
01:53:15,010 --> 01:53:18,250
Like their purpose of existence 
is to stop the Ironborn raids 

2250
01:53:18,250 --> 01:53:20,650
from the West. 
They're like the first line of 

2251
01:53:20,650 --> 01:53:25,370
defense against Ironborn raids, 
so it must really chafe being 

2252
01:53:25,370 --> 01:53:30,250
ruled by the Ironborn. 
This is like our whole thing. 

2253
01:53:30,810 --> 01:53:33,930
And so they were like, yes, 
finally, yes, we're definitely 

2254
01:53:33,930 --> 01:53:37,490
glad to join the anyone who's 
not Ironborn and fight against 

2255
01:53:37,490 --> 01:53:40,090
them to freeze. 
Ah, this is terrible. 

2256
01:53:40,250 --> 01:53:44,020
Yeah, it would have been. 
They would have been relieved to

2257
01:53:44,020 --> 01:53:46,860
get out from under that black 
thumb of Heron. 

2258
01:53:47,500 --> 01:53:50,420
Side note, I'm guessing Quentin 
Coheris the one who is the 

2259
01:53:50,420 --> 01:53:53,660
master at Arms. 
Maybe he was too old to be 

2260
01:53:53,660 --> 01:53:54,940
fighting in the army by this 
point. 

2261
01:53:55,300 --> 01:53:58,300
This is the guy who gets Heron 
Hall as his seat later, so kind 

2262
01:53:58,300 --> 01:54:00,500
of feel like he was probably 
there, But if he wasn't there, 

2263
01:54:00,500 --> 01:54:02,900
his sons would have been, and 
maybe his grandson as well. 

2264
01:54:03,660 --> 01:54:07,380
So if they were capable of 
fighting the army, he wasn't. 

2265
01:54:07,380 --> 01:54:13,030
But perhaps the whole batch, all
the Coheri, we're there now. 

2266
01:54:13,030 --> 01:54:15,230
It doesn't have to be, though. 
He doesn't have to be there. 

2267
01:54:15,870 --> 01:54:17,310
He doesn't have to be a front 
liner. 

2268
01:54:17,470 --> 01:54:21,750
Just a a guess that I think 
makes a lot of sense now. 

2269
01:54:21,750 --> 01:54:24,750
Notably, they showed up at Heron
Hall to join Agon. 

2270
01:54:24,910 --> 01:54:27,710
They didn't necessarily pay 
homage to him immediately, They 

2271
01:54:27,910 --> 01:54:30,550
knelt to him after Heron was 
defeated. 

2272
01:54:30,550 --> 01:54:32,190
So I wonder what kind of 
conversations happen first. 

2273
01:54:32,190 --> 01:54:36,190
They're like nominally on his 
side that we're with you to 

2274
01:54:36,190 --> 01:54:38,510
fight Heron but you're not our 
king yet. 

2275
01:54:38,850 --> 01:54:42,610
I kind of wonder about like the 
the specifics of that like how 

2276
01:54:42,610 --> 01:54:46,530
do they address him you know do 
they call him King Egg on and 

2277
01:54:46,690 --> 01:54:48,930
he's like Lord egg on there. 
Like he's got some dude that's 

2278
01:54:48,930 --> 01:54:52,890
like King Egg on you know 
someone that's like correcting 

2279
01:54:52,890 --> 01:54:55,130
them. 
He's like your Grace, you know, 

2280
01:54:55,170 --> 01:54:57,250
not my Lord. 
You know some guy that's like 

2281
01:54:57,250 --> 01:54:59,410
sitting there and egg on's like,
all right chill dude. 

2282
01:54:59,410 --> 01:55:02,690
We'll we'll get to that later. 
Or or he's like yes I am king 

2283
01:55:02,690 --> 01:55:04,090
Egg on. 
You will address me as like I 

2284
01:55:04,090 --> 01:55:05,890
wonder which it was. 
I kind of feel like it might be 

2285
01:55:05,890 --> 01:55:08,130
the latter, because he's such a 
such a boss. 

2286
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:13,320
I I think the former. 
My idea is that you'll see just 

2287
01:55:13,320 --> 01:55:16,720
when he's playing. 
Yeah, I don't. 

2288
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:18,360
I don't need to be pushy about 
it now. 

2289
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:21,480
They'll all, they'll all kneel 
once they see what Blarian does.

2290
01:55:21,560 --> 01:55:23,200
Yeah, that's a good point. 
He knew because he he probably 

2291
01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:24,880
knew what he was about to do. 
He's like, I'm going to burn 

2292
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:26,600
this whole castle and they're 
going to see now that they're 

2293
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:29,680
here, I they're going to see he 
might have been waiting for 

2294
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:30,680
that. 
He's like, I want to make sure 

2295
01:55:30,680 --> 01:55:31,920
there's lots of witnesses to 
this. 

2296
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:35,240
Yes, yeah. 
And he, yeah, he and he wants to

2297
01:55:35,240 --> 01:55:37,320
keep them friendly in the 
meantime. 

2298
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:40,360
And I think there's a lot of 
reasons for like, you know, the 

2299
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:43,600
enemy of my enemy is my friend. 
I think they can all just 

2300
01:55:44,120 --> 01:55:47,360
coexist there for a moment. 
And Agon just knows at the end 

2301
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:49,440
of this that they'll all be 
happy to kneel to you. 

2302
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:51,400
There's no reason for him to 
talk down to them. 

2303
01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:53,080
That that's just doesn't serve a
purpose. 

2304
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:56,400
Like he we don't know that he 
actually had a giant ego, that 

2305
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:59,920
he needed to feel that way. 
He he, he needed to be in 

2306
01:55:59,920 --> 01:56:02,360
charge. 
But he didn't need to like have 

2307
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:06,800
his, his ego stroked. 
I don't think he doesn't seem 

2308
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:08,560
like that kind of guy. 
He's like, no, I'm in charge and

2309
01:56:08,560 --> 01:56:10,720
I know I'm in charge and soon 
you will too. 

2310
01:56:10,760 --> 01:56:13,000
That kind of. 
I feel like that's true 

2311
01:56:13,000 --> 01:56:15,400
confidence rather than projected
confidence. 

2312
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:18,400
If you need to tell someone 
you're the king, you're not 

2313
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:19,520
really. 
Yeah, there you go. 

2314
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:21,320
I'll show you. 
Just wait. 

2315
01:56:21,360 --> 01:56:24,220
Yeah, they can call me what they
want right now, but it won't be 

2316
01:56:24,220 --> 01:56:26,540
long before they're, like, 
rushing to kneel. 

2317
01:56:27,340 --> 01:56:31,380
Yeah, and indeed they did. 
So yeah, that's that's a good 

2318
01:56:31,380 --> 01:56:32,580
point. 
So yeah, I kind of, I think I 

2319
01:56:32,580 --> 01:56:34,900
see it that way too. 
Sean and the rest of y'all I I 

2320
01:56:34,900 --> 01:56:36,460
would love to hear your takes on
this. 

2321
01:56:36,460 --> 01:56:39,580
Whenever we're going through 
this, this particular reread 

2322
01:56:39,580 --> 01:56:42,980
especially we're really trying 
to get into the the tiny details

2323
01:56:42,980 --> 01:56:44,940
of some of these things, trying 
to like insert ourselves into 

2324
01:56:44,940 --> 01:56:48,500
these characters minds. 
So it's really, really open to 

2325
01:56:48,500 --> 01:56:52,610
interpretation, which that's I 
always love to hear from y'all, 

2326
01:56:52,730 --> 01:56:55,690
love to hear your opinions, your
takes, your theories. 

2327
01:56:56,130 --> 01:56:58,690
But here I feel like there's 
even more room for it because 

2328
01:56:58,690 --> 01:57:00,370
this is just we're just talking 
about like people's 

2329
01:57:00,370 --> 01:57:04,890
personalities. 
This isn't something that like 

2330
01:57:04,890 --> 01:57:06,250
we are. 
I think we're all on fairly even

2331
01:57:06,250 --> 01:57:08,770
footing here as long as we like.
We have basic understanding of 

2332
01:57:08,770 --> 01:57:12,210
what this person did. 
But Aegon's personality is very 

2333
01:57:12,210 --> 01:57:15,650
hidden from us, like he is 
Another factor that goes into 

2334
01:57:15,650 --> 01:57:19,610
speaking his his the way he 
comes off, even as a mystery to 

2335
01:57:19,610 --> 01:57:22,320
the Maesters, fits in with that 
conversation we were having 

2336
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:24,680
before that that Lady Ray 
brought up that you brought up 

2337
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:27,600
that. 
Maybe that's part of why he's an

2338
01:57:27,600 --> 01:57:30,160
enigma to the Maestres too, is 
that he he did keep himself a 

2339
01:57:30,160 --> 01:57:32,200
bit of a secret. 
He didn't like, let the Maestres

2340
01:57:32,200 --> 01:57:33,640
record a lot of what he was 
doing it. 

2341
01:57:33,800 --> 01:57:37,280
It is possible, but maybe for 
other alternate reasons or for 

2342
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:41,320
additional reasons like this, 
that he just was like that. 

2343
01:57:41,320 --> 01:57:43,240
He kept, he kept his own 
counsel. 

2344
01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:47,810
He didn't want people making 
guesses about who he was. 

2345
01:57:47,810 --> 01:57:50,250
Or maybe he thought it was 
better to seem a little bit of 

2346
01:57:50,250 --> 01:57:52,890
mysterious, like that. 
Projects. 

2347
01:57:52,890 --> 01:57:57,450
More power, you know, having his
having it be about the office 

2348
01:57:57,450 --> 01:58:01,370
and not about the man you know. 
And and also, I don't know how 

2349
01:58:01,370 --> 01:58:04,570
to say this, He wants to control
the narrative. 

2350
01:58:04,850 --> 01:58:06,090
Okay. 
Like, yeah. 

2351
01:58:06,250 --> 01:58:09,290
There might be times like in 
modern times you might have like

2352
01:58:09,290 --> 01:58:11,380
no press. 
No press for this. 

2353
01:58:11,540 --> 01:58:14,620
But once the meeting is done and
the decision is made, okay, 

2354
01:58:14,700 --> 01:58:16,260
let's have a press conference. 
Right. 

2355
01:58:16,420 --> 01:58:18,740
And that's like the coronation 
is sort of like all right, get 

2356
01:58:18,740 --> 01:58:21,140
all the maesters let let's get 
witnesses. 

2357
01:58:21,380 --> 01:58:22,780
But. 
But when he's doing the battle 

2358
01:58:22,780 --> 01:58:25,820
plans or meeting with the new 
allies, maybe doesn't want that 

2359
01:58:25,820 --> 01:58:28,740
interaction to be recorded for 
posterity, You know? 

2360
01:58:29,820 --> 01:58:34,420
So what are the commoners at 
this time? 

2361
01:58:34,420 --> 01:58:38,940
The commoners We hear they 
cheered loudly and happily when 

2362
01:58:38,940 --> 01:58:43,100
Egon had his first coronation on
the Blackwater after those few 

2363
01:58:43,100 --> 01:58:45,580
dozen Lords surrendered. 
Dozen Lords surrendered early 

2364
01:58:45,580 --> 01:58:47,580
on. 
What about these commenters? 

2365
01:58:47,580 --> 01:58:49,340
What are the commenters in the 
Riverlands thinking? 

2366
01:58:49,340 --> 01:58:52,140
Were they like Here comes our 
Savior? 

2367
01:58:52,140 --> 01:58:53,860
Were they a little wary? 
Oh, this is just another 

2368
01:58:54,220 --> 01:58:58,060
different crappy guy to have? 
Like, who cares who our king is?

2369
01:58:58,060 --> 01:59:00,660
It's going to be terrible. 
Regardless, was their optimism 

2370
01:59:00,660 --> 01:59:02,260
because of how terrible Heron 
was? 

2371
01:59:02,380 --> 01:59:06,050
I'm guessing there probably was 
because yes, things could get 

2372
01:59:06,050 --> 01:59:08,970
worse, but man, they were bad. 
So they're probably going to get

2373
01:59:08,970 --> 01:59:12,090
better under this guy, 
especially if they even believed

2374
01:59:12,090 --> 01:59:15,370
half of what he was saying. 
Yeah, even if they were wary of 

2375
01:59:15,370 --> 01:59:18,010
Agon, they probably, there was 
still probably some optimism. 

2376
01:59:18,050 --> 01:59:20,330
So I feel like there are 
probably some that like kind of 

2377
01:59:20,770 --> 01:59:23,090
happily marched alongside him 
that just joined his army. 

2378
01:59:23,090 --> 01:59:26,450
They were like, yeah, like I 
want to be part of this, this 

2379
01:59:26,450 --> 01:59:27,650
thing. 
I want to be maybe the king, 

2380
01:59:27,650 --> 01:59:29,570
this new king will reward me for
being in his army. 

2381
01:59:29,570 --> 01:59:30,930
They might see it as an 
opportunity. 

2382
01:59:31,770 --> 01:59:36,930
Small scale ambition could be a 
new new rulership over the river

2383
01:59:36,930 --> 01:59:39,250
lands. 
It's a lot of chaos. 

2384
01:59:39,250 --> 01:59:43,610
Chaos is a ladder, you know 
that's one of those possibly the

2385
01:59:43,610 --> 01:59:47,650
most quotable show line that's 
relevant, you know, And cuz it 

2386
01:59:47,650 --> 01:59:49,650
is pretty true and it's a good 
succinct way to put that. 

2387
01:59:50,450 --> 01:59:52,490
So there might be, yeah, there's
a lot of opportunities from 

2388
01:59:52,490 --> 01:59:57,330
small scale to high scale, from 
high Lords and ladies seizing on

2389
01:59:57,330 --> 02:00:01,170
opportunities to become 
counselors or close to Agon or 

2390
02:00:01,170 --> 02:00:02,890
close to his sisters in this new
regime. 

2391
02:00:03,490 --> 02:00:04,970
That's true on a smaller scale 
too. 

2392
02:00:04,970 --> 02:00:07,890
There's like new tax collectors 
are going to get hired, new 

2393
02:00:07,890 --> 02:00:10,690
offices are going to be formed. 
There's all sorts of like think 

2394
02:00:10,690 --> 02:00:14,250
about local government, think 
about your local City Council or

2395
02:00:14,250 --> 02:00:17,330
your state Senate rather than 
the the federal Senate. 

2396
02:00:17,330 --> 02:00:20,130
Or you know, if you don't live 
in the US, whatever form of 

2397
02:00:20,130 --> 02:00:24,610
government you have, yeah, 
there's a lot of possibilities 

2398
02:00:24,610 --> 02:00:28,010
there. 
And yeah, they're all, they're 

2399
02:00:28,010 --> 02:00:31,840
all pretty strong. 
So I really like to think about 

2400
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:32,840
that. 
It's a strong part of the world 

2401
02:00:32,840 --> 02:00:35,360
building that we don't get much 
talk about. 

2402
02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:38,080
It's not the maestros don't tend
to spend a lot of time on the 

2403
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:39,560
sort of thing. 
They don't know a lot about it. 

2404
02:00:39,560 --> 02:00:41,520
They're they spend most of their
time inside the castles. 

2405
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:44,800
They're not out in the farms and
fields talking to peasants, not 

2406
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:46,480
very often or not very many of 
them. 

2407
02:00:46,480 --> 02:00:49,040
I'm sure there's exceptions. 
I would love to hear those 

2408
02:00:49,040 --> 02:00:51,720
stories. 
Okay, let's talk what we're 

2409
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:55,480
going to have just the beginning
of egg on arriving in Heron 

2410
02:00:55,480 --> 02:00:56,680
Hall. 
And then we'll leave it there 

2411
02:00:56,680 --> 02:01:00,620
and get the first thing we'll do
next time is discuss the parley 

2412
02:01:00,620 --> 02:01:04,820
between Agon and Heron. 
And that's pretty cool cuz 

2413
02:01:04,820 --> 02:01:06,060
that's a that's a great place to
start. 

2414
02:01:06,060 --> 02:01:08,740
Start with the conversation. 
One of the few recorded times 

2415
02:01:08,740 --> 02:01:12,180
that Agon's dialogue is is 
specifically recorded for us. 

2416
02:01:13,180 --> 02:01:18,900
So let's start with the quote. 
As we finish up today of Heron 

2417
02:01:18,900 --> 02:01:23,260
Hall, suddenly outnumbered King 
Heron the Black took refuge in 

2418
02:01:23,260 --> 02:01:26,820
his supposedly. 
Impregnable Stronghold The 

2419
02:01:26,820 --> 02:01:29,380
largest castle ever raised in 
Westeros. 

2420
02:01:29,950 --> 02:01:35,430
Heron Hall boasted 5 gargantuan 
towers, an inexhaustible source 

2421
02:01:35,430 --> 02:01:39,350
of freshwater, huge subterranean
vaults, well stocked with 

2422
02:01:39,350 --> 02:01:43,750
provisions and massive walls of 
Blackstone, higher than any 

2423
02:01:43,750 --> 02:01:48,070
ladder and too thick to be 
broken by any ram or shattered 

2424
02:01:48,070 --> 02:01:51,270
by a tribuchet. 
Heron barred his gates and 

2425
02:01:51,270 --> 02:01:55,110
settled down with his remaining 
sons and supporters to withstand

2426
02:01:55,110 --> 02:01:59,620
a siege agon of Dragonstone. 
Was of a different mind. 

2427
02:01:59,660 --> 02:02:01,940
Yeah, he expected a siege, but 
Egon was like, I'm not doing a 

2428
02:02:01,940 --> 02:02:02,980
siege. 
What are you talking about? 

2429
02:02:02,980 --> 02:02:04,980
I've only got 8000 men. 
How could I besiege this big 

2430
02:02:04,980 --> 02:02:06,340
ass? 
It's like, that's what Heron's 

2431
02:02:06,340 --> 02:02:07,620
thing is like, how's he gonna 
besiege this? 

2432
02:02:08,060 --> 02:02:10,500
Yeah, I wonder who Heron's 
remaining supporters were. 

2433
02:02:10,940 --> 02:02:13,960
It's entirely possible it was 
just other Ironborn, you know, 

2434
02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:17,640
But but it's not like every 
single house that joined in the 

2435
02:02:17,640 --> 02:02:19,240
Riverlands was, was accounted 
for. 

2436
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:21,400
When we heard that list of the 
tide turning, it was a lot of 

2437
02:02:21,400 --> 02:02:23,440
big names, Bracken, Blackwood, 
etcetera. 

2438
02:02:23,440 --> 02:02:25,320
But there's plenty of other 
houses we haven't heard about, 

2439
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:28,760
smaller scale ones that would 
have felt less protected, ones 

2440
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:30,520
that were maybe closer to the 
West. 

2441
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:32,840
Like what about the far West of 
the Riverlands? 

2442
02:02:32,840 --> 02:02:35,080
The ones on the shore? 
Yeah, Malister is an exception, 

2443
02:02:35,080 --> 02:02:36,680
perhaps because they're so anti 
ironborn. 

2444
02:02:37,670 --> 02:02:39,550
But what about some of the other
houses along the shortening? 

2445
02:02:39,550 --> 02:02:42,910
They might be a little wary of 
flipping when they're so close 

2446
02:02:42,910 --> 02:02:46,070
to the Iron Islands. 
Like we're we're in a sandwich 

2447
02:02:46,070 --> 02:02:47,270
here. 
We're nowhere near King's 

2448
02:02:47,270 --> 02:02:50,910
Landing or the egg on for it 
because there is no King's 

2449
02:02:50,910 --> 02:02:53,430
Landing yet. 
We're nowhere near the base of 

2450
02:02:53,430 --> 02:02:54,470
this new king. 
Whatever. 

2451
02:02:54,470 --> 02:02:55,750
I don't know what they called it
at this point. 

2452
02:02:55,750 --> 02:02:56,910
Do they call it the egg on for 
it? 

2453
02:02:56,910 --> 02:03:04,230
I guess. 
But yeah, so he heron's like the

2454
02:03:04,230 --> 02:03:09,760
guy, that proverbial guy that 
buys a big fancy new truck or 

2455
02:03:09,760 --> 02:03:14,160
new car and just wrecks it the 
first time he drives it because 

2456
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:18,560
he's he's way overestimated what
it's capable of, you know, or 

2457
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:21,800
what he's putting it up against.
In this case, like immovable 

2458
02:03:21,800 --> 02:03:24,120
object meets immovable 
resistible force. 

2459
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:26,040
No, actually, irresistible 
force. 

2460
02:03:26,200 --> 02:03:33,480
Force meets burnable object. 
All very, very distinct Okay 

2461
02:03:33,480 --> 02:03:35,440
folks. 
That's a good stopping point for

2462
02:03:35,440 --> 02:03:37,720
this week. 
We've covered right up to the 

2463
02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:43,520
point of the war, and as at the 
beginning of the true conflict 

2464
02:03:43,720 --> 02:03:47,240
of Aegon's conquest, the first 
major domino will fall, we'll 

2465
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:50,960
have a lot to say about that, 
how it sets up such a example 

2466
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:54,320
for the rest of the realm, and 
so many other things. 

2467
02:03:54,320 --> 02:03:55,600
We'll be having a lot of fun 
with that. 

2468
02:03:56,240 --> 02:03:58,960
There is another question we 
have here from Gerald Garcia. 

2469
02:03:59,370 --> 02:04:01,730
In the first Punic war, the 
Romans put a boarding ramp 

2470
02:04:01,730 --> 02:04:04,770
called a Corvis to their ships 
to board Carthages ships. 

2471
02:04:05,410 --> 02:04:08,210
It worked but when a storm hit 
their fleet the Corvis 

2472
02:04:08,250 --> 02:04:09,610
unbalanced the ships and they 
sank. 

2473
02:04:09,850 --> 02:04:11,730
I do remember this. 
That's right, the Corvis which 

2474
02:04:11,730 --> 02:04:15,330
is in because the Corvis is is 
like Raven for. 

2475
02:04:15,490 --> 02:04:22,210
But it was a big old thing, like
a a large ramp with two big 

2476
02:04:22,210 --> 02:04:25,210
spikes at the end and they would
just get close to an enemy ship 

2477
02:04:25,210 --> 02:04:29,810
and drop it and it would just 
smack down and Pierce the enemy 

2478
02:04:29,810 --> 02:04:32,810
ship. 
And that get the Romans were 

2479
02:04:32,930 --> 02:04:38,170
trying to use their advantage as
a use their disadvantage into an

2480
02:04:38,210 --> 02:04:39,770
advantage. 
Which was the Carthaginians had 

2481
02:04:40,130 --> 02:04:44,250
way naval superior over them and
the Romans had way land superior

2482
02:04:44,250 --> 02:04:45,770
over the Carthaginian. 
So they were like, well, if we 

2483
02:04:45,770 --> 02:04:50,490
can use our soldiers in ship to 
ship combat, our soldiers will 

2484
02:04:50,570 --> 02:04:53,370
easily overwhelm their sailors. 
And that was true. 

2485
02:04:53,650 --> 02:04:58,080
But as Gerald Garcia points out,
and it unbalanced all their 

2486
02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:02,000
ships and once the seas became 
difficult, they lost the like 

2487
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:05,480
the entire fleet of these Corva 
ships and never built them 

2488
02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:07,880
again. 
As far as I know, that was naval

2489
02:05:07,880 --> 02:05:09,640
and experience. 
The Carthaginians would not have

2490
02:05:09,640 --> 02:05:12,600
made that mistake. 
Hopefully I'm coming through 

2491
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:14,800
smooth right now, but I'm 
guessing that's a parallel to 

2492
02:05:14,840 --> 02:05:16,240
the my talking about the 
Scorpions. 

2493
02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:18,080
Problem, right. 
Yes, absolutely. 

2494
02:05:18,080 --> 02:05:20,480
You're totally right. 
Yeah, it is an exact building of

2495
02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:22,760
of that point. 
Let's answer the trivia question

2496
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:25,040
for you. 
Remember, the question was who? 

2497
02:05:25,040 --> 02:05:28,760
What house were the Larry, Moe 
and Curley men at arms sworn to?

2498
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:32,640
They were sworn to anyone get 
this house. 

2499
02:05:32,640 --> 02:05:35,200
Bracken is the answer. 
They were Bracken. 

2500
02:05:35,200 --> 02:05:42,010
They were Laris, LHARYS, Mohor 
and Curlicette, Larry's Larry, 

2501
02:05:42,010 --> 02:05:44,690
Moe and Curly. 
People did get the lorries in 

2502
02:05:44,690 --> 02:05:47,610
the Mohor Mohor part too, but 
they did not. 

2503
02:05:47,610 --> 02:05:49,970
Get the Curly what Curly was 
short for? 

2504
02:05:50,410 --> 02:05:52,610
Yeah, Curlicette. 
So if you remember them, Sean, 

2505
02:05:52,610 --> 02:05:56,930
those were those three guys were
in Catlin's party when she 

2506
02:05:57,010 --> 02:06:00,050
captured Tyrion at the at the 
end of the crossroads. 

2507
02:06:00,330 --> 02:06:03,930
And then all three of them died 
in the mounds, all the way to 

2508
02:06:04,770 --> 02:06:08,340
the to the Erie. 
I remember that sequence, of 

2509
02:06:08,340 --> 02:06:10,380
course, but I don't. 
I didn't take note of those 

2510
02:06:10,380 --> 02:06:12,660
names, so I appreciate. 
Being enlightened. 

2511
02:06:13,540 --> 02:06:15,380
So George has a longer history 
of this. 

2512
02:06:15,380 --> 02:06:19,900
This was, you know, a lot more 
hidden than the Muppet Tully's, 

2513
02:06:19,940 --> 02:06:23,700
which are just blatant. 
Like Grover Tully, Oscar Tully, 

2514
02:06:23,700 --> 02:06:28,700
Elmo Tully. 
Yes, next week we'll even spell 

2515
02:06:28,700 --> 02:06:30,300
them with Y's and K's or 
anything. 

2516
02:06:30,300 --> 02:06:31,460
Yeah, no. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2517
02:06:31,460 --> 02:06:32,780
Just the exact. 
Same spelling. 

2518
02:06:32,780 --> 02:06:34,500
Yeah, he's like, you know what, 
I don't need to hide this. 

2519
02:06:34,500 --> 02:06:35,780
Let's just go right out and do 
it. 

2520
02:06:37,410 --> 02:06:39,050
Let's see it's cited as an 
example. 

2521
02:06:39,050 --> 02:06:40,410
I mean maybe you've seen this in
social media. 

2522
02:06:40,410 --> 02:06:44,290
People people over exaggerate 
George's stories and say that it

2523
02:06:44,290 --> 02:06:45,530
he's nihilistic. 
He's not. 

2524
02:06:45,530 --> 02:06:49,050
He's like there are good, like 
nihilism is like nothing is 

2525
02:06:49,050 --> 02:06:51,250
good. 
Like everything ends in despair 

2526
02:06:51,250 --> 02:06:53,570
and what's the point that 
they're not. 

2527
02:06:53,650 --> 02:06:56,330
They're not like that at all. 
People have good endings and 

2528
02:06:56,330 --> 02:06:58,570
positive things. 
That's The funny thing with that

2529
02:06:58,610 --> 02:07:01,130
the those men at arms really 
are. 

2530
02:07:01,130 --> 02:07:03,890
They're described. 
Like the actors, too. 

2531
02:07:04,720 --> 02:07:06,600
Yeah, which I find fun. 
Oh, they're physical 

2532
02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:09,720
descriptions Masters researchers
like Mohore MO has. 

2533
02:07:09,720 --> 02:07:12,200
An iron. 
Like helmet, Iron helm that 

2534
02:07:12,200 --> 02:07:13,720
makes him look like he. 
Has a bowl on his head. 

2535
02:07:13,760 --> 02:07:18,950
Where's the bowl cut for Moe? 
Yeah, Lotteries has. 

2536
02:07:19,310 --> 02:07:22,270
Wild Tufts of rust. 
Colored hair that stick out of a

2537
02:07:22,270 --> 02:07:24,390
conical cap. 
So yeah, he's got like the curly

2538
02:07:24,470 --> 02:07:26,350
had the well, Larry had the big 
hair. 

2539
02:07:26,350 --> 02:07:29,550
Yeah, Larry had the big hair. 
Curly is just a great fat oaf 

2540
02:07:29,550 --> 02:07:31,150
with short cropped hair and a 
pig's. 

2541
02:07:31,150 --> 02:07:33,150
Face and Curly was a big guy. 
Yeah, that's right. 

2542
02:07:33,910 --> 02:07:36,670
That's genius. 
There's really great art of them

2543
02:07:36,670 --> 02:07:38,190
on the wiki that someone has 
done that. 

2544
02:07:41,390 --> 02:07:40,030
Anyway, so that's pretty fun. 
Squisher King has done nice of 

2545
02:07:40,030 --> 02:07:43,510
each of. 
That is pretty fun. 

2546
02:07:44,790 --> 02:07:45,910
Yep. 
So. 

2547
02:07:46,650 --> 02:07:49,010
You know, one last note about 
Agon's personality that I wanted

2548
02:07:49,010 --> 02:07:50,450
to add. 
I think maybe from a meta 

2549
02:07:50,450 --> 02:07:54,210
perspective, one of the reasons 
George kept Agon's personality a

2550
02:07:54,210 --> 02:07:57,890
little undefined was because 
he's such a parallel to Danny. 

2551
02:07:57,890 --> 02:08:00,770
He wanted to maybe leave some of
that undone so he could later 

2552
02:08:00,770 --> 02:08:03,330
write backfill some of those 
parallels a little more cleanly 

2553
02:08:03,330 --> 02:08:06,490
after he's developed Danny. 
More like Revert, like make draw

2554
02:08:06,490 --> 02:08:08,770
the parallel back to Agon rather
than starting with Agon and 

2555
02:08:08,770 --> 02:08:11,450
connecting us Danny. 
Danny's the main character, not 

2556
02:08:11,450 --> 02:08:13,850
Agon the Conqueror. 
Even though he came before her. 

2557
02:08:14,180 --> 02:08:16,620
Like, obviously she's the one 
that gets more focused. 

2558
02:08:17,020 --> 02:08:19,740
He wants so. 
So he wants her to be fleshed 

2559
02:08:19,740 --> 02:08:25,180
out more than to create. 
Parallel or contrast to yes. 

2560
02:08:25,220 --> 02:08:25,900
Yeah. 
Or you're right. 

2561
02:08:25,900 --> 02:08:27,740
Contrast as well as parallels, 
so so. 

2562
02:08:27,740 --> 02:08:30,300
Some of that, like she hasn't 
even landed in Westeros yet. 

2563
02:08:30,300 --> 02:08:32,220
So like, if you think about, 
wow, so we've gone really far 

2564
02:08:32,220 --> 02:08:34,100
with that. 
Not not to this part of the 

2565
02:08:34,100 --> 02:08:35,620
story, though. 
Like she hasn't. 

2566
02:08:36,420 --> 02:08:39,140
She hasn't been in Westeros 
except for when she was born. 

2567
02:08:39,620 --> 02:08:42,420
She's been in Westeros for like 
a few days her entire life. 

2568
02:08:42,420 --> 02:08:47,170
So yeah, the parallels are 
already immense, but let's not 

2569
02:08:47,170 --> 02:08:49,090
forget that there's room for a 
lot more. 

2570
02:08:49,090 --> 02:08:52,290
And yeah, George may not have 
wanted to write himself into a 

2571
02:08:52,290 --> 02:08:54,050
corner, wanted to leave room for
those later. 

2572
02:08:54,050 --> 02:08:56,850
Because after all, he started 
this so long ago and he he knew 

2573
02:08:56,850 --> 02:09:00,650
it would be a while before she'd
land on Westeros, even think, 

2574
02:09:00,650 --> 02:09:04,410
even even if at first he thought
it would be sooner than than 

2575
02:09:04,410 --> 02:09:07,450
2023. 
But still he knew it would be a 

2576
02:09:07,450 --> 02:09:11,730
while. 
So yes, we will pick up next 

2577
02:09:12,290 --> 02:09:14,990
time, not next week. 
In two weeks time. 

2578
02:09:14,990 --> 02:09:18,550
We'll be back for another live 
stream at 3:00 Eastern. 

2579
02:09:18,790 --> 02:09:24,310
Join us for that or listen to or
watch it after the fact. 

2580
02:09:24,310 --> 02:09:26,630
You can do. 
You have many choices in how you

2581
02:09:26,630 --> 02:09:28,390
consume history of Westeros 
podcast. 

2582
02:09:29,470 --> 02:09:32,710
We mentioned a lot of episodes 
or alluded to a lot of episodes 

2583
02:09:32,710 --> 02:09:35,270
along the way here. 
Our Valeria episodes, of course 

2584
02:09:35,270 --> 02:09:39,150
House Valerian and Celtic are 
Century of Blood, Summer Hall, 

2585
02:09:39,150 --> 02:09:40,550
The Doom. 
We got an episode on. 

2586
02:09:40,550 --> 02:09:44,110
Valerian We got an episode on 
Before the Dragons. 

2587
02:09:44,110 --> 02:09:47,470
We've got multiple episodes on 
Under the Dragons, the Rule, 

2588
02:09:47,830 --> 02:09:49,750
Under the Just After the 
conquest. 

2589
02:09:50,750 --> 02:09:55,550
Lots of things there as well. 
Thank you to anyone who supports

2590
02:09:55,550 --> 02:09:58,230
on Patreon or as a Spotify 
subscriber. 

2591
02:09:58,430 --> 02:10:00,350
There's lots of ways to support 
the show. 

2592
02:10:00,510 --> 02:10:02,030
You can also just tell your 
friends about us. 

2593
02:10:02,030 --> 02:10:04,110
That's one of the best ways to 
spread word of mouth. 

2594
02:10:04,110 --> 02:10:08,270
You are a better salesperson 
than you might think when you're

2595
02:10:08,270 --> 02:10:11,310
discussing things that you care 
about a lot. 

2596
02:10:11,310 --> 02:10:17,180
That is the heart of of bringing
people over is enthusiasm for 

2597
02:10:17,180 --> 02:10:21,020
the thing that you are preaching
about passion. 

2598
02:10:21,020 --> 02:10:24,740
Passion, yes. 
Passion works true passion. 

2599
02:10:24,740 --> 02:10:27,140
Best of. 
All and we certainly have a true

2600
02:10:27,140 --> 02:10:30,380
passion for the world of 
Westeros and the writings of 

2601
02:10:30,380 --> 02:10:33,420
George R Martin. 
Thanks as well to Nina who also 

2602
02:10:33,420 --> 02:10:37,740
has that level of passion and 
obsession and we are really 

2603
02:10:37,740 --> 02:10:39,820
appreciate everything she 
contributes to our show. 

2604
02:10:40,390 --> 02:10:44,750
Thanks to Joey, Jesse and Bran 
for the music and our intro. 

2605
02:10:45,190 --> 02:10:48,470
Thanks as well to Michael 
Clarfeld for the same as well As

2606
02:10:48,470 --> 02:10:50,710
for the amazing maps you see 
behind us. 

2607
02:10:51,670 --> 02:10:54,110
And thanks as well to our 
engineer for audio quality 

2608
02:10:54,110 --> 02:10:57,670
assistance. 
Engineering sound like a 

2609
02:10:57,670 --> 02:10:59,790
engineer would. 
That's right. 

2610
02:11:00,830 --> 02:11:04,910
Well, until next time, my 
friends and fellow Westorians 

2611
02:11:06,870 --> 02:11:07,950
Valerie Riis.