1
00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:52,540
As her brother Agon struck out 
towards Heron Hall and her 

2
00:00:52,540 --> 00:00:56,180
sister Rainey struck out towards
the stormlands, Queen Vicinia 

3
00:00:56,180 --> 00:01:00,580
departed for the veil on Veigar.
It was ruled by Queen Regent 

4
00:01:00,580 --> 00:01:03,860
Shara Aaron, whose son, King 
Ronald was not yet of age. 

5
00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:07,500
She had tried unsuccessfully to 
become Agon's third wife, and 

6
00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:11,830
now she prepared for war. 
Banners were called, defenses 

7
00:01:11,830 --> 00:01:15,310
mounted, and allies outside of 
Westeros were sought and 

8
00:01:15,310 --> 00:01:17,550
secured. 
In many ways, the Veil is the 

9
00:01:17,550 --> 00:01:19,230
most difficult Kingdom to 
invade. 

10
00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:22,750
The Bloody Gate saw the defeat 
of several Ironborn invasions in

11
00:01:22,750 --> 00:01:25,670
the time of King Halekhore, not 
to mention countless others in 

12
00:01:25,670 --> 00:01:28,910
the Eons prior, which is why the
Targaryen didn't send an army at

13
00:01:28,910 --> 00:01:31,310
all. 
The invasion would begin with 

14
00:01:31,310 --> 00:01:35,220
air and sea power. 
With Vesenia and Veigar came the

15
00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:38,100
new royal fleet, mostly 
consisting of the ships of House

16
00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:41,220
Valarion led by the Lord of 
Drift, Mark and Master of ships 

17
00:01:41,220 --> 00:01:45,540
Damon, Valarion, Vesenia and 
Veigar and the Valorians invade 

18
00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:49,060
the Veil. 
It's Valar reredis. 

19
00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:51,060
Ha. 
All that and more on this 

20
00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:53,660
episode of History of Westeros 
podcast. 

21
00:01:54,260 --> 00:01:58,600
Hello and welcome to this most 
viest of episodes. 

22
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,840
More V's in this episode then 
you can get a handle on. 

23
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,480
We like to bring you as many V's
as possible and today we're very

24
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,639
successful at that. 
Also, it's a very Shawn day 

25
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,360
because we have Shawn right 
beside us, me and Asheya 

26
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,160
slightly farther away. 
It's great to have you here in 

27
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,200
the studio again, Shawn, just 
like old times. 

28
00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:22,840
Yeah, it was cool. 
I was just observing before we 

29
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,360
started this that I think the 
number of. 

30
00:02:24,870 --> 00:02:28,590
Remote Streams has outnumbered 
the amount of in Person streams 

31
00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:31,510
at this point, but that's true. 
Yeah, we're not quite sure what 

32
00:02:31,510 --> 00:02:33,630
the count is, but I think you're
probably right. 

33
00:02:33,630 --> 00:02:37,150
We've probably done more remote 
than 10 together, but we'll add 

34
00:02:37,150 --> 00:02:38,990
one more to the Together column 
here. 

35
00:02:39,690 --> 00:02:42,370
We should have included a lot of
fives in this episode too, to 

36
00:02:42,370 --> 00:02:45,970
match up with the vs. 
Yes, yes, this episode is not 

37
00:02:45,970 --> 00:02:47,690
Roman. 
How often do you think about the

38
00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:50,330
Roman Empire, Shawn? 
Not every day, but I think once 

39
00:02:50,330 --> 00:02:52,930
a week or so. 
You know, like more often than 

40
00:02:52,930 --> 00:02:54,530
you might think. 
But to be fair, I think about a 

41
00:02:54,530 --> 00:02:56,490
lot of things. 
Yeah, I probably think about 

42
00:02:56,490 --> 00:03:00,450
American history once a day. 
So that question's been making 

43
00:03:00,450 --> 00:03:04,760
the rounds, hasn't it? 
Every almost every 3:00 PM. 

44
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:05,560
What's that? 
Sorry. 

45
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,600
How many times a day do I think 
of the Roman Empire? 

46
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:13,880
5V V times. 
Our live streams are almost 

47
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,360
every Sunday at 3:00 PM Eastern 
on YouTube. 

48
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,320
Afterwards you can still catch 
the live stream on YouTube as a 

49
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,800
recording. 
You could also catch the edited 

50
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,860
podcast version both available 
in video and audio only forms on

51
00:03:28,860 --> 00:03:32,780
Spotify and audio only forms 
everywhere else available 

52
00:03:33,020 --> 00:03:36,780
available. 
That's right, I did put the V in

53
00:03:36,780 --> 00:03:40,700
caps here in our document. 
It's also ad free on Patreon if 

54
00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:43,420
you choose to listen. 
There also a shout out to our 

55
00:03:43,420 --> 00:03:48,500
good friend Good Queen Alley AKA
Nina Good. queenalley.tumblr.com

56
00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:51,060
Interesting question that 
relates to the conquest that she

57
00:03:51,060 --> 00:03:54,420
got. 
What would have happened if Agon

58
00:03:54,420 --> 00:03:58,850
had died before the completion 
of the conquest, before having a

59
00:03:58,850 --> 00:04:01,530
child? 
Or, you know, one of the 

60
00:04:01,530 --> 00:04:04,290
scenarios floated is if it had 
been Aegon who died in Dorn 

61
00:04:04,290 --> 00:04:06,330
instead of Rainey's. 
What would that have done? 

62
00:04:06,450 --> 00:04:10,090
Spoiler spoiler yes, I'm sure 
y'all didn't know that. 

63
00:04:10,090 --> 00:04:12,730
So my bad for ruining the 
surprise. 

64
00:04:13,730 --> 00:04:17,730
Our trivia question for today. 
There are two castles in 

65
00:04:17,730 --> 00:04:20,290
Westeros with the same name. 
Actually, there might be more, 

66
00:04:20,290 --> 00:04:23,730
but I'm I only know of this one 
duplication. 

67
00:04:24,010 --> 00:04:27,860
What is that name? 
I'll tell you at the end, unless

68
00:04:27,860 --> 00:04:30,940
you know already, in which case 
you don't need to be told, but 

69
00:04:30,940 --> 00:04:32,540
I'll say it at the end 
regardless. 

70
00:04:32,660 --> 00:04:36,820
OK, let's talk about the 
campaign, The Targaryen side, 

71
00:04:37,380 --> 00:04:39,580
Damon Velarian. 
More on him in our house for 

72
00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:42,180
Laurian episode, so we'll keep 
this part a little bit briefer 

73
00:04:42,180 --> 00:04:43,980
than the fuller explanation 
there. 

74
00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:46,900
Like Oris, Damon was also 
family. 

75
00:04:47,020 --> 00:04:50,100
And like Oris Baratheon, the 
exact nature of the family 

76
00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:52,760
connection is unknown. 
We don't know who Arias's mother

77
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,800
was. 
We talked about it a bit, but we

78
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,200
have no confirmed answers. 
It's not even 100% certain that 

79
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,120
he was Lord Aryan's bastard at 
all, though personally I accept 

80
00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,160
that as cannon, but there's a 
chance it's not true. 

81
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,640
And the Targaryen siblings 
mother was Valena Valerian. 

82
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,240
Damon had grown children, so we 
can guess he was at least in his

83
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,560
40s. 
He could have been older than 

84
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,840
that, maybe his 50s, and if he 
was in his 50s or or 

85
00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:20,250
thereabouts, then he might have 
been Valena's brother, which 

86
00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:25,010
means he would be the uncle of 
Aegon and and Vicenia and 

87
00:05:25,010 --> 00:05:28,570
Rainey's. 
Now it might have been said if 

88
00:05:28,570 --> 00:05:32,690
he was their uncle, so perhaps 
that's not the case. 

89
00:05:32,730 --> 00:05:36,690
Otherwise I would guess he's the
nephew of her. 

90
00:05:37,090 --> 00:05:40,130
He's her nephew rather than her 
sister or brother. 

91
00:05:40,130 --> 00:05:43,170
Rather you got because it's a 
safer guest that Lord Aryan 

92
00:05:43,170 --> 00:05:45,330
married the daughter of the Lord
Adrift Mark rather than a 

93
00:05:45,330 --> 00:05:47,430
cousin. 
And Damon was very likely the 

94
00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:50,190
son of the Lord of Drift Mark, 
since he inherited became Lord. 

95
00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:53,630
So, you know, usually the main 
branches where these marriages 

96
00:05:53,630 --> 00:05:57,350
occur to the Royals, but there's
obviously other possibilities. 

97
00:05:58,190 --> 00:06:03,590
It's also given the destruction 
of Targaryen and Valerian. 

98
00:06:04,780 --> 00:06:06,220
History and houses and 
everything. 

99
00:06:06,220 --> 00:06:08,700
There might be a little less 
concerned about the exact direct

100
00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:11,260
lines or fathers or, you know, 
they just say we just got to 

101
00:06:11,260 --> 00:06:13,820
survive, right? 
That some things might be more 

102
00:06:13,820 --> 00:06:15,140
in question than normal. 
That's true. 

103
00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:18,460
Yeah, like whenever you only 
have one, maybe there's only one

104
00:06:18,900 --> 00:06:21,580
female House Volarian member 
that was marriageable at that 

105
00:06:21,580 --> 00:06:23,540
time. 
It wouldn't necessarily matter 

106
00:06:23,980 --> 00:06:26,140
what branch of the family she 
was from as long as she had the 

107
00:06:26,140 --> 00:06:27,980
name Volarian. 
But if they were multiples, they

108
00:06:27,980 --> 00:06:31,220
would pick the the closest to 
the main line probably. 

109
00:06:32,050 --> 00:06:34,690
And it's less important to know 
what the specific familial 

110
00:06:34,690 --> 00:06:38,570
relationship is with Damon. 
It's just important to know that

111
00:06:38,570 --> 00:06:44,650
he was family and that his 
involvement might be more than 

112
00:06:45,170 --> 00:06:47,370
just. 
Well, he's the Lord of he's a 

113
00:06:47,370 --> 00:06:50,170
new master of ships, so clearly 
he's the guy here. 

114
00:06:50,490 --> 00:06:53,330
So there may have been some some
personal angles to consider 

115
00:06:53,330 --> 00:06:55,570
here, which would make the whole
thing a little more interesting,

116
00:06:55,690 --> 00:06:58,650
especially given what ends up 
happening, which we'll get to 

117
00:06:58,650 --> 00:07:00,990
shortly. 
He would have definitely been 

118
00:07:00,990 --> 00:07:03,990
familiar to them regardless of 
of what age he was or what his 

119
00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:06,070
relationship to their mother 
was. 

120
00:07:06,750 --> 00:07:10,110
And he would have very possibly 
given his age when someone they 

121
00:07:10,110 --> 00:07:12,430
were used to seeing as an 
authority figure, someone that 

122
00:07:12,430 --> 00:07:15,950
was constantly at their father's
side when Lord Aryan ruled 

123
00:07:15,950 --> 00:07:19,470
Dragonstone, Lord Damon may have
been someone that conferred with

124
00:07:19,470 --> 00:07:20,910
him frequently. 
They would have had a lot to 

125
00:07:20,910 --> 00:07:24,470
talk about. 
They would have been their 

126
00:07:24,510 --> 00:07:26,990
neighbors, right? 
Drift mark right next to 

127
00:07:26,990 --> 00:07:29,030
Dragonstone. 
So there there could have been a

128
00:07:29,070 --> 00:07:32,870
a big presence in their youth. 
Damon's sons include Athan, who 

129
00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:36,150
will eventually succeed him as 
both Lord of Tides and 

130
00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:39,030
Masterships, and Coralis, not to
be confused with the Sea Snake, 

131
00:07:39,230 --> 00:07:41,630
who will eventually become the 
first Lord Commander of the 

132
00:07:41,630 --> 00:07:43,190
King's Guard. 
There's at least one more 

133
00:07:43,190 --> 00:07:48,190
unnamed son. 
Given how battles normally go 

134
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,000
and who gets represented by 
individual houses when it comes 

135
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,280
to war, I would kind of guess 
that Ethan stayed home as the 

136
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,320
future Lord. 
He would rule in his father's 

137
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,000
absence, kind of like how they 
expected Rob to stay home. 

138
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,040
You know, he he left, but he was
supposed to stay there. 

139
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,800
Everyone else went to court 
pretty much. 

140
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,720
Bran was going to go, only 
Rickon was going to stay because

141
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,280
he was so young and Rob was 
going to stay because he's the 

142
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,280
heir. 
So it's similar thing. 

143
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,750
I would guess Ethan stuck, 
stayed behind, whereas Corley's 

144
00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:19,590
the one who ended up being a 
warrior Lord Commander the 

145
00:08:19,590 --> 00:08:21,550
King's Guard was probably 
already a warrior at this point.

146
00:08:21,750 --> 00:08:24,070
He may have been there, he may 
have been at his father's side, 

147
00:08:24,070 --> 00:08:25,790
or maybe even commanding a 
separate ship. 

148
00:08:26,430 --> 00:08:29,230
Kind of depends on his age and 
experience, which is unclear. 

149
00:08:29,790 --> 00:08:31,870
So this new royal fleet, like I 
said in the intro, was mostly 

150
00:08:31,870 --> 00:08:34,950
the Larian ships, but there'd 
also be some Targaryen ships 

151
00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:36,710
straight from Dragonstone, 
someone from house. 

152
00:08:36,710 --> 00:08:40,309
Celtic are or Celtic are if you 
prefer, and other Lords of 

153
00:08:40,309 --> 00:08:43,309
Blackwater Bay. 
Should we know Athen's age 

154
00:08:43,309 --> 00:08:46,070
range? 
Well, yes. 

155
00:08:46,070 --> 00:08:49,030
Given that Corlise's younger 
brother is going to become Lord 

156
00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:52,590
Commander of the King's Guard 10
years later, probably wasn't 

157
00:08:52,590 --> 00:08:55,590
only like 20 years old when he 
became Lord Commander, or even 

158
00:08:55,590 --> 00:08:57,870
even 25. 
It's usually a job that goes to 

159
00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:00,030
a bit of an older man, even 
though this would be the first 

160
00:09:00,030 --> 00:09:01,790
Lord Commander, so that wasn't 
necessarily established. 

161
00:09:01,790 --> 00:09:03,510
So you would expect this one 
more senior man to be in charge 

162
00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:06,030
of the King's protection, 
someone, someone more patient 

163
00:09:06,030 --> 00:09:08,740
discipline rather than a some 
trying to prove themselves, you 

164
00:09:08,740 --> 00:09:11,660
know what I mean? 
So we don't know how old he was,

165
00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:14,220
but we can assume he was very 
likely, they were very likely 

166
00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:17,340
both adults or young young 
adults at this point because of 

167
00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:20,660
what important jobs they would 
have very soon after. 

168
00:09:20,740 --> 00:09:23,020
Yeah, Ethan's going to be Lord 
of the tides within a few years 

169
00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:24,820
of this, or or actually right 
away. 

170
00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:29,060
But still, when you think about,
and maybe George even regrets 

171
00:09:29,060 --> 00:09:30,140
how young you made some of the 
kids. 

172
00:09:30,140 --> 00:09:34,340
But considering how old Rob was 
when he's like leading N into 

173
00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:37,020
war, yeah, how old was he 10 
years prior? 

174
00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:40,780
Ethan could have been that old, 
and that might be reason why he 

175
00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:42,620
stayed, because he was as young 
as Rick on something. 

176
00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:45,060
Maybe I'm pushing some numbers, 
but absolutely. 

177
00:09:45,060 --> 00:09:46,380
Yeah. 
Corley's could have been like 

178
00:09:47,060 --> 00:09:49,260
the youngest I would guess he 
could be his ten, which would 

179
00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:50,820
mean he was not in the battle I 
would think. 

180
00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:53,020
But but if he was only a little 
bit older he might have been 

181
00:09:53,020 --> 00:09:55,700
there. 
So anyway, a few other parallels

182
00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:59,660
to the Rainies or East campaign 
and the and the and the campaign

183
00:09:59,660 --> 00:10:04,020
here is that the dispositions 
were similar in that the army 

184
00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:07,120
sent to battle King Argalak to 
Arrogant where Oris Baratheon 

185
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,000
handed the king led the soldiers
while Rainey's accompanied them 

186
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,560
on dragon back. 
Whereas Vecenia brought Vega and

187
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,640
spoke for her brother. 
But the soldiers, in this case 

188
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,200
the Navy, were commanded by 
Damon Velarian, the masterships.

189
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,440
In both cases, you have this 
person who's close to their 

190
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,280
family. 
A Valorian and Oris Baratheon 

191
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,800
are in charge of the soldiers, 
whereas does the sister queen 

192
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,120
riding one of the Dragons is, as
I call it in the Battle Last 

193
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,400
Storm episode, which comes out 
next week, is like a dragon 

194
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,880
chaperone of sorts, like Orys 
can't order rainies what to do, 

195
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,280
but Rainies isn't explicitly in 
charge of the army either. 

196
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,800
She's not a battle commander per
se. 

197
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,920
It's the same thing here. 
Vicinia isn't a naval commander.

198
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,120
She doesn't have a lot of 
experience on shipboard, most 

199
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,440
likely, but David Villare isn't 
going to tell her what to do 

200
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,320
either. 
It's kind of like what we're 

201
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,200
going to see in The Dance of the
Dragons, which would be a 

202
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,760
spoiler for you to me to say too
much about. 

203
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,080
But there is this situation 
where you have people who have 

204
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,640
titles that are not in the same 
category, and it's unclear who 

205
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,720
can tell who what to do. 
And in this case is there. 

206
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,440
No one's going to tell a gun 
sister what to do, right? 

207
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,600
But it's still kind of an 
interesting, unique command 

208
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,400
situation where one person isn't
in charge of everything. 

209
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,920
It's a very common thing in the 
modern military, which is very 

210
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,800
structured and organized. 
All kinds of legal rules and 

211
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,640
precedents have been 
established, but you still have 

212
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,720
scenarios where that there are 
ranks like you're saying it was 

213
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,840
like ranks, you know, Sergeant. 
Staff Sergeant, Master Sergeant,

214
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,920
Lieutenant captain, Colonel. 
But then there's also position. 

215
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,000
So you can have one captain who 
is in charge of a company and 

216
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,760
another captain who is the 
intelligence officer for the 

217
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,640
battalion. 
You know, they're both the same 

218
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,560
rank, but the intelligence 
officer has no business telling 

219
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:51,240
the soldiers in his company what
to do. 

220
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:52,960
That makes sense. 
You have different roles of 

221
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,960
responsibility. 
And similarly to you, just 

222
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,960
almost like the difference 
between a warrior and a soldier.

223
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,960
You know, this warrior might be 
able to kick in one's butt. 

224
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,200
But this soldier knows how to 
direct the pieces of the 

225
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,280
battlefield to maneuver the 
flank and then send the Archer, 

226
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,400
as the warrior doesn't have any 
leadership skills, he just no 

227
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:09,440
one can beat him at sword 
fighting. 

228
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,920
So when you go back to medieval 
times in the Game of Thrones 

229
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,600
scenario, it's almost one thing 
you're treating me about. 

230
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,960
The story in the 1st place is 
what if the Prince tells you to 

231
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,440
get the horse out of the stable 
and the queen tells you to? 

232
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,400
Put the horse in the stable and 
yeah, and yours. 

233
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,520
Your captain tells you to go do 
guard duty. 

234
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,200
Like, who do you follow the 
command of? 

235
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,360
So these torn loyalties, you 
know this is one way it can play

236
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,080
out here right on. 
That makes sense. 

237
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,640
We hear that. 
We hear that happening in in 

238
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,800
regular non military 
organizations to where sometimes

239
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,620
they just to defunct or 
dysfunctional organization where

240
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,380
you have employees that can be 
ordered around by multiple 

241
00:12:47,380 --> 00:12:50,020
bosses and these orders might 
conflict and yeah what do you do

242
00:12:50,060 --> 00:12:51,340
yeah. 
The manager who's there every 

243
00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:53,820
day tells you to do one thing. 
The owner that pops in once a 

244
00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:54,980
month tells you to do another 
thing. 

245
00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:57,580
Yeah, yeah, you know they're 
both wrong because you're the 

246
00:12:57,580 --> 00:12:58,700
one who does it every day. 
Yeah. 

247
00:12:59,980 --> 00:13:02,700
So in both cases we have a close
but uncertain relation of House 

248
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:05,060
Targaryen and a member of the 
small council leading the 

249
00:13:05,060 --> 00:13:07,700
soldiers while a queen and 
sister to Agon riding a dragon 

250
00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:10,770
assists. 
Now Nina points out it. 

251
00:13:10,810 --> 00:13:15,930
It's worth mentioning that the 
Senia may have expected or was 

252
00:13:15,930 --> 00:13:18,650
expecting to act with more 
military autonomy compared to 

253
00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:22,450
her sister in the Storm Lands, 
where Agon and Iranis might have

254
00:13:22,450 --> 00:13:26,490
relied on Oris because he was at
least experienced as a warrior. 

255
00:13:26,570 --> 00:13:31,610
Somewhat, the Senia was actually
a warrior. 

256
00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:33,490
She trained alongside her 
brother. 

257
00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:38,590
She fought with Dark Sister, so 
she may have actually had more 

258
00:13:38,590 --> 00:13:40,870
experience, more combat 
knowledge than Ranis was. 

259
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:43,390
Even though Ranis was was very 
skilled as a dragon rider, it's 

260
00:13:43,390 --> 00:13:45,550
explicitly pointed out that 
she's not a warrior which would 

261
00:13:45,550 --> 00:13:48,870
mean she's certainly not a 
strategist either I wouldn't 

262
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:50,270
think. 
Whereas the Senia it's not as 

263
00:13:50,270 --> 00:13:52,710
clear what her military 
knowledge was. 

264
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:58,150
But there's a lot of reason to 
suspect that she was more of 

265
00:13:58,150 --> 00:14:03,250
such than her sister, but not 
necessarily something that she 

266
00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:05,810
worked on a lot because later in
the in the Congress we'll see 

267
00:14:05,810 --> 00:14:09,410
that she's often the one that 
does the ruling when Agon is off

268
00:14:09,410 --> 00:14:11,130
to another stuff. 
She does a lot of the 

269
00:14:11,130 --> 00:14:13,170
day-to-day, not to mention a lot
of other things. 

270
00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:14,770
Let's just say I'm gonna say it 
right now. 

271
00:14:14,770 --> 00:14:17,650
Vasenia might be my favorite 
Targaryen of all of them. 

272
00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:20,530
She's just really cool and 
interesting and her personality 

273
00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:23,410
is a lot more defined than 
either her siblings, which helps

274
00:14:23,410 --> 00:14:27,890
a lot too for for latching onto 
her as something to be 

275
00:14:27,890 --> 00:14:30,210
interested in. 
So in both cases there was also 

276
00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:32,130
a marriage offer. 
Our Galac offered his daughter 

277
00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:34,730
to egg on. 
Shara offered herself to egg on 

278
00:14:34,730 --> 00:14:37,610
as well, but she already had a 
son named Ronald whose father 

279
00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:39,730
had passed. 
We don't know who the father 

280
00:14:39,730 --> 00:14:42,250
was. 
Another one of these where we 

281
00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:48,010
don't know who the father was. 
So she was Queen Regent and 

282
00:14:48,010 --> 00:14:52,570
Ronald's mother prefer 
presumably king before Ronald 

283
00:14:52,690 --> 00:14:57,940
and was rather he whoever he 
was. 

284
00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:01,580
He had been king before Ronald 
and maybe Shara was not an 

285
00:15:01,580 --> 00:15:04,660
errand by birth. 
It's not clear if if she was 

286
00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:06,580
then the husband is less 
important. 

287
00:15:07,660 --> 00:15:10,220
That might be why he's not 
mentioned now. 

288
00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:14,700
Gildaine mocks Shara for being 
a, quote faded flower who was 

289
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:16,700
apparently like, one of the most
beautiful women in Seven 

290
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:18,420
Kingdoms. 
But that had been like, a decade

291
00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:22,590
prior. 
And I think he's kind of missing

292
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:24,870
the point. 
Perhaps with the way a historian

293
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:28,070
would be expected to. 
Her strategy was fine, like, why

294
00:15:28,070 --> 00:15:29,630
not make the offer? 
It couldn't hurt. 

295
00:15:29,630 --> 00:15:31,750
He says no big deal. 
She's not offended. 

296
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:34,190
She knows it's a political move.
She's not like, oh, he's not 

297
00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:36,750
attracted to me, you know, 
that's not what she doesn't care

298
00:15:36,750 --> 00:15:38,550
about that. 
I mean, it would be a benefit. 

299
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:42,190
It'd be nice, like, use your, if
you, if you've got it, flaunt it

300
00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:43,710
right. 
She's trying to if that's a 

301
00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:47,310
weapon in her arsenal, use it. 
But that's not Gil. 

302
00:15:47,310 --> 00:15:50,050
Dane is perhaps making too much 
of that. 

303
00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:52,650
Being the main point here is 
like, yeah, like that's not why 

304
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:55,090
Agon turned her down. 
Agon wouldn't have turned down a

305
00:15:55,090 --> 00:15:58,330
good political marriage because 
she's not attractive enough. 

306
00:15:58,330 --> 00:15:59,530
Like, that doesn't make any 
sense. 

307
00:15:59,530 --> 00:16:00,850
Like Agon doesn't think that 
way. 

308
00:16:01,730 --> 00:16:03,970
That's there's no evidence of 
that, and it just it's not very 

309
00:16:03,970 --> 00:16:06,170
pragmatic either. 
Also it's. 

310
00:16:06,450 --> 00:16:08,570
I mean, I guess, I don't know, 
but it's not like she went from 

311
00:16:08,570 --> 00:16:13,230
being. 50 years old to 60 years 
old and you know, yeah, there's 

312
00:16:13,230 --> 00:16:15,190
attractive. 
I mean, no, 110 years from now 

313
00:16:15,190 --> 00:16:17,350
is going to say, well, Timothy 
Shelma is not attractive 

314
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:18,990
anymore. 
You know, well age would matter 

315
00:16:18,990 --> 00:16:20,830
a bit because of the having 
children. 

316
00:16:20,830 --> 00:16:23,110
So there is there is still that 
but she's not. 

317
00:16:23,550 --> 00:16:26,430
But she apparently was not out 
of her childbearing years by any

318
00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:28,750
means. 
But still there was the she. 

319
00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:32,710
The the addition to the marriage
offer of Ron you have to name 

320
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:37,340
Ronald as your heir is like 
that's a bigger no than taking a

321
00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:40,180
third wife it would have been. 
It was like, no, it has to be a 

322
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,180
child of my body, has to be the 
king. 

323
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:46,300
Like they the realm won't even 
accept your son, let alone if I 

324
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:48,780
was willing to accept him so. 
I really just wanted to talk 

325
00:16:48,780 --> 00:16:51,940
about how attractive Timothy 
Charlemagne is again. 

326
00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:57,580
So she thought that by 
bargaining from strength, maybe 

327
00:16:57,580 --> 00:17:00,600
she could get a different offer.
Maybe, maybe she wouldn't have 

328
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,560
expected that offer, except he's
like, he's not going to really 

329
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,160
take my son as his heir. 
But it's a point. 

330
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,359
Like it's a starting point I. 
Didn't even think of that. 

331
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,440
Yeah, she's trying to make the 
point. 

332
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,040
Like, I'm willing to do 
whatever. 

333
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,760
Yeah, right. 
This is like, this is what I 

334
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,920
would like to do, like maybe 
offer me a compromise. 

335
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,359
But he just said no, like there 
was no compromise because they 

336
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,440
got is not really about 
compromising. 

337
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,000
And whether or not she realized 
it, that wasn't necessarily a 

338
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,640
slide on her. 
That's just his MO. 

339
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:24,400
Yeah, right. 
Yeah, exactly. 

340
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,920
Like if she had had a really 
young daughter, he might have 

341
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,440
offered to marry that really 
young daughter to Ronald. 

342
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,200
That might have been a way to 
bring the Kingdom together. 

343
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,720
In fact, I'd save this for a 
little bit later. 

344
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,240
But originally George did write 
it as Agon, having Agon and his 

345
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,880
sisters having a daughter or 
two, and then in early planning,

346
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,480
it was never like written in the
books or anything like that. 

347
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,110
It wasn't a retcon. 
But it makes sense he eliminated

348
00:17:50,110 --> 00:17:52,950
that because he didn't want that
to be a variable and is 

349
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:54,070
negotiating with the. 
I think. 

350
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:56,950
So yeah, it enables the 
character of Agon to be more 

351
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:58,750
domineering and just because, 
you know, I don't make 

352
00:17:58,750 --> 00:18:01,510
alliances. 
Yeah, like even that offer that 

353
00:18:01,510 --> 00:18:03,270
you're supposing might have 
made, he might have made it 

354
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:06,110
after they bent the knee, right?
Yes, that's true. 

355
00:18:06,110 --> 00:18:08,350
He still you could submit to me 
and this marriage alliance will 

356
00:18:08,350 --> 00:18:11,790
tie our houses together as the 
Targaryen's and and the Aaron's 

357
00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:14,550
did have several marriages later
and to and and to one or two 

358
00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:18,690
other houses in the Vale. 
But that was to shore up 

359
00:18:18,690 --> 00:18:23,010
alliances, not to create an 
equal, an equal alliance right. 

360
00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:26,250
Something to help the support 
the throne rather than someone 

361
00:18:26,250 --> 00:18:30,650
to be the equal of the throne. 
So this comes up because our 

362
00:18:30,650 --> 00:18:33,370
Galac did get a counteroffer, 
right? 

363
00:18:33,370 --> 00:18:36,970
When our Galac made his offer of
his daughter to Agon, Agon 

364
00:18:36,970 --> 00:18:38,730
countered with Oris to his 
daughter. 

365
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:43,670
But there was no offer of Oris 
to Shara, which that wouldn't 

366
00:18:43,670 --> 00:18:45,870
have worked the same way, that 
that wouldn't have accomplished 

367
00:18:45,870 --> 00:18:47,950
the same things. 
Shar already had a son's. 

368
00:18:47,950 --> 00:18:51,710
The same problem exists there 
with with starting a new line or

369
00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:54,750
or all that sort of business. 
You can't do that with a child 

370
00:18:54,750 --> 00:18:56,510
in the way. 
And the only way to deal with 

371
00:18:56,510 --> 00:18:58,470
that is to, you know, kill the 
kid. 

372
00:18:58,630 --> 00:19:02,910
Which is not at all the kind of,
you know, obviously Agon and 

373
00:19:02,910 --> 00:19:04,870
Oris and everyone, they're 
willing to kill people, but 

374
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:06,070
they're not. 
They're not trying to kill 

375
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:08,270
children. 
They don't want that to be the 

376
00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:10,950
way they got to where they are. 
Yeah, that doesn't look good. 

377
00:19:11,030 --> 00:19:13,540
I mean, I don't think. 
I don't think it's about honor 

378
00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:15,140
and ethics. 
I think it's about optics. 

379
00:19:15,140 --> 00:19:17,620
Like they would be totally 
willing to do that if it meant 

380
00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:20,100
they got accomplished their 
goals, but it's 

381
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:21,460
counterproductive to their 
goals. 

382
00:19:21,620 --> 00:19:24,340
Luckily for a lot of Westerosi 
children. 

383
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,060
You know another thing, little 
things we had speculated in the 

384
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:31,580
past that I feel ripple effects 
as we go through this. 

385
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:35,710
I wonder if he knew our Galac 
wouldn't accept that marriage 

386
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:38,830
anyway, so he's makes himself 
seem reasonable, offering it, 

387
00:19:38,830 --> 00:19:40,350
knowing our likes. 
Not going to take it. 

388
00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:43,590
Maybe Also there is a bit of 
sexism in there. 

389
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:45,510
He offers a better deal to the 
male leaders. 

390
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:47,750
You know it's possible to signal
to the other male leaders in the

391
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:49,670
other kingdoms. 
It is entirely possible. 

392
00:19:49,670 --> 00:19:53,270
On the other hand, one theory I 
have is that they knew our Galac

393
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:56,230
would never bend the knee and 
they would have to kill him. 

394
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:58,910
They would have to beat him and 
kill him in order to to to 

395
00:19:59,310 --> 00:20:00,430
overcome him. 
Whereas. 

396
00:20:00,870 --> 00:20:02,830
Shara was clearly more willing 
to negotiate. 

397
00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:05,630
Like they sent our galactic 
counteroffer and he flipped his 

398
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:07,670
lid and cut the end of his hands
off like okay. 

399
00:20:07,670 --> 00:20:09,470
Well, that's the end of that. 
We're not sending another envoy 

400
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:12,230
to him. 
But Shara, they just cut off 

401
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:13,830
negotiations because they're 
like, well, no, this is 

402
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:15,230
untenable because you have a 
son. 

403
00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:16,950
There's just no way this won't 
work. 

404
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:18,510
So they. 
Yeah, so it's not. 

405
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:23,350
It's possible there was some 
some gender specific angles to 

406
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:27,110
this, but I think the biggest 
hang up for the Targaryens was 

407
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:30,620
her existing son in both 
regions. 

408
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:33,540
The campaign campaign. 
The campaign between two large 

409
00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:35,900
powers allows an opportunity for
smaller players to take 

410
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:38,140
advantage to the benefit of the 
Targaryen's. 

411
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:40,940
Our Galac had already lost 
Bannerman to Agon. 

412
00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:42,820
That was before the war even 
started. 

413
00:20:42,820 --> 00:20:46,060
We were talking about mostly the
Lords in there, see, like Massey

414
00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:49,380
and Bar Emin. 
But that became more official 

415
00:20:49,380 --> 00:20:51,620
when the Bannermen were actually
called, and you saw who they 

416
00:20:51,620 --> 00:20:54,580
marched with. 
And when our black called his 

417
00:20:54,580 --> 00:20:57,140
banners, the Dorners men raid 
the Marches, and pirates raid 

418
00:20:57,140 --> 00:20:58,700
the coasts. 
The Veil is going to see 

419
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:01,940
defections as well as we'll see,
Nina says. 

420
00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:05,100
This is part and parcel of the 
preconquest great game of 

421
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:08,220
Westerosi geopolitics. 
If someone gets too powerful, 

422
00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:10,140
everyone else is going to gang 
up on them. 

423
00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:12,100
We've used the board game 
analogy of a lot of times. 

424
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:14,340
No one wants to see someone get 
so powerful that they're able to

425
00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:16,180
win. 
So it's the one time where 

426
00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:18,220
people will team up. 
It's the one time where they 

427
00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:21,420
unite against a common enemy is 
when there's someone that 

428
00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:25,950
threatens to take down the mall.
With Aegon, they didn't do that.

429
00:21:26,790 --> 00:21:28,910
I was going to say there's a 
couple caveats to what you're 

430
00:21:28,910 --> 00:21:30,870
saying, though. 
If someone gets within a certain

431
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:35,150
range of too powerful, because 
when they get clearly dominantly

432
00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:39,070
too powerful, well, we can't do 
anything about that. 

433
00:21:39,310 --> 00:21:41,830
And that, as long as you have a 
good leader in charge, is better

434
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:44,310
for stability, which is kind of 
what the whole thing Aegon is 

435
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:47,950
doing. 
And and Shara also asked for 

436
00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:50,350
land. 
She asked for all the lands east

437
00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:52,630
of the Green Fork of the Trident
for the veils support against 

438
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:53,870
black hair. 
And she's like, look, well 

439
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:56,310
instead of a marriage we could 
do this instead. 

440
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:59,710
So there were all sorts of 
offers and and potential 

441
00:21:59,710 --> 00:22:03,310
negotiation points that could 
have come up with a compromise. 

442
00:22:03,310 --> 00:22:05,750
But again Agon was just like, 
Nah, I'm not doing that. 

443
00:22:06,550 --> 00:22:08,350
You, you bend the knee or that's
that. 

444
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:14,070
You know another thing too. 
Earlier on, being hard about 

445
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:17,790
things not compromising, getting
people to fall in line later on 

446
00:22:17,790 --> 00:22:19,750
makes people more likely to just
fall in line. 

447
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:21,270
Like, well, he's not taking 
compromises. 

448
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:23,910
He's already beat these people. 
He has more behind him now. 

449
00:22:23,910 --> 00:22:26,830
Like, it's more and more 
lopsided, but at the same time 

450
00:22:26,830 --> 00:22:29,670
that enables him to be more 
compromising toward the end. 

451
00:22:29,670 --> 00:22:31,310
You know that's true. 
He when he is willing to 

452
00:22:31,310 --> 00:22:34,110
compromise, it's like, oh, he is
it's it's possible, but it's 

453
00:22:34,110 --> 00:22:36,270
rare. 
Yeah, he doesn't want to. 

454
00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:40,240
Maybe you seem so unbending that
he's never compromising but but 

455
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,880
he but having it be rare does 
make sense that people will 

456
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,240
rarely expect it. 
One other aspect of Agon not 

457
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,480
having daughters is that it 
would have proved he could have 

458
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,480
kids because he didn't have 
that. 

459
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,640
Which which is a wrinkle that 
we've entertained at various 

460
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,000
points and find it quite 
interesting as far people 

461
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,120
willingness to bend the knee. 
If he already had children I 

462
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:01,560
wonder if how that would have 
changed things. 

463
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,120
Besides the marriage offers, 
which would have certainly been,

464
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,280
there would have been a lot more
of those. 

465
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,560
Like, yeah, marry your son to 
mine. 

466
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,370
Of course if they had had a son 
and a daughter who were already 

467
00:23:10,370 --> 00:23:14,010
married, like the targarians do,
then that wouldn't have That 

468
00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:16,490
door would have been closed too.
But maybe they have two sons and

469
00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:17,690
one daughter. 
Anyway, you know, George is 

470
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:19,130
like, Nope, no kids at all. 
Let's just. 

471
00:23:19,570 --> 00:23:21,490
I was gonna say you wonder how 
that would have changed these 

472
00:23:21,490 --> 00:23:23,570
George probably did too. 
He probably went through a lot 

473
00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:26,170
of if thens you know, I think I 
brought this up before in the. 

474
00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:29,820
The the writers of Breaking Bad 
and Better Call Saul talked a 

475
00:23:29,820 --> 00:23:33,180
lot about how there's way more 
stuff that they wrote that was 

476
00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:36,060
scrapped than what we actually 
see because they go through 

477
00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:39,100
these paths of how it will play 
out and realize it won't work or

478
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:41,260
doesn't drive the things. 
So scrapping kind of go back. 

479
00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:44,140
I'm sure George Dutt and is 
doing currently is doing a lot 

480
00:23:44,140 --> 00:23:45,740
of that now. 
Yeah, yeah, you're probably 

481
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:47,580
right. 
And George doesn't like, he's 

482
00:23:47,580 --> 00:23:52,110
obviously not someone who shirks
the more complicated option, 

483
00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:53,510
right. 
He's not like, he's like off 

484
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:55,030
this would be too much. 
This would be too much world 

485
00:23:55,030 --> 00:23:57,590
building like George's. 
That's not going to stop him. 

486
00:23:57,590 --> 00:24:00,590
I don't think so. 
So I don't think it was purely 

487
00:24:00,870 --> 00:24:02,950
to make it simple and easy for 
himself. 

488
00:24:03,550 --> 00:24:05,350
But that would have maybe been a
benefit. 

489
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:07,070
That's certainly like a notable 
benefit. 

490
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:10,630
But probably fundamentally, he 
keep kept like as he thought 

491
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:14,190
about how each of these kingdoms
would go, it kept being the 

492
00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:16,430
complicating factor and he 
probably went through, well, 

493
00:24:16,430 --> 00:24:18,150
what if it's a daughter? 
Or what if it's what it 

494
00:24:18,150 --> 00:24:21,050
eventually is like? 
I just need to eliminate it 

495
00:24:21,050 --> 00:24:23,610
altogether. 
It's all a lot of parameters, a 

496
00:24:23,610 --> 00:24:26,210
lot of permutations, like two 
sons, one daughter, two 

497
00:24:26,490 --> 00:24:30,810
daughters, one four sons, 15 
daughters, no sons like son. 

498
00:24:30,810 --> 00:24:32,330
And daughter married to each 
other already? 

499
00:24:32,410 --> 00:24:34,130
Yeah, they were married to other
people. 

500
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:36,650
With the incest in the mix, the 
possibility is really 

501
00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:38,810
ridiculous. 
So yeah, maybe that maybe, maybe

502
00:24:38,810 --> 00:24:43,250
it really was about simplifying.
He tried all those options. 

503
00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:45,650
Like all these stink. 
They're all just no, we just 

504
00:24:45,650 --> 00:24:48,630
gotta keep it simpler. 
But anyway, so on the veil side 

505
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:50,750
let's talk about what they had 
going for them and what they 

506
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:54,470
were bringing to the battlefield
or the battle sea. 

507
00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:57,110
It's the naval encounter. 
What do you call that? 

508
00:24:57,110 --> 00:25:00,270
It's not a battlefield when it's
at the ocean on the air inside 

509
00:25:00,270 --> 00:25:02,190
like the other kingdoms. 
The Veilman had plenty of 

510
00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:04,950
warning the Targaryens were 
coming after all they got it 

511
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:06,830
sent out his letter. 
He's like I'm been the knee or 

512
00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:08,070
else. 
You know how polite of him, 

513
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:09,270
right? 
To tell everybody. 

514
00:25:09,270 --> 00:25:13,790
Right. 
So they knew what was happening.

515
00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:15,870
That's why all that negotiating 
happened. 

516
00:25:15,910 --> 00:25:20,880
And and he was saying, hey look,
if you want to join me early on,

517
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,280
there are going to be benefits 
like we saw that like the 

518
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,880
tallies were heavily rewarded. 
But when this battle kicks off, 

519
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,480
when this campaign kicks off, 
that hasn't happened yet. 

520
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,920
So no one has seen what happens 
when you've been the need to egg

521
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,920
on other than a few crown lands 
Lords. 

522
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,520
So there isn't really 
established expectation for what

523
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,080
happens. 
President Yeah, there isn't a 

524
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,200
big precedent there. 
None of the major powers had 

525
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,160
been the need to egg on and saw 
what happened yet. 

526
00:25:45,650 --> 00:25:48,490
And that's part of what makes 
this veil campaign so 

527
00:25:48,490 --> 00:25:51,770
interesting is that it's the 
first one to kick off, but it is

528
00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:53,170
not nearly the first one to 
finish. 

529
00:25:53,170 --> 00:25:55,930
A lot happens in between. 
It's starting and finishing, so 

530
00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:58,170
that a lot of these examples of 
what happens do pile up. 

531
00:25:58,170 --> 00:26:01,810
So by the end of it, we see that
the the Veilman, Queen, Shara, 

532
00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:04,050
etcetera, they have a lot more 
information with which to make a

533
00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:07,890
decision and that that makes it 
unique in its own way. 

534
00:26:08,810 --> 00:26:12,290
Compare Nina brings up the 
letter that Stana sends out as a

535
00:26:12,290 --> 00:26:15,290
comparison to the letter that's 
sent out by Agon. 

536
00:26:15,490 --> 00:26:20,530
One is Stannis says I'm the true
king because Cersei's children 

537
00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:25,010
aren't hers or aren't. 
Roberts like it's a it's a legal

538
00:26:25,010 --> 00:26:27,890
thing. 
Like this results in this result

539
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:31,210
like this means I'm king, 
whereas Agon is just like I'm 

540
00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:34,050
king cuz I'm the strongest and 
I'm coming for you. 

541
00:26:34,090 --> 00:26:35,650
That's it's a totally different 
thing. 

542
00:26:35,650 --> 00:26:37,810
We made that comparison before, 
but that's a pretty huge 

543
00:26:37,810 --> 00:26:40,470
difference in the way it's 
presented, because people can 

544
00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:42,230
ignore Stannis. 
Like, you're not strong enough 

545
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:45,030
to take us. 
Your legal claim doesn't scare 

546
00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:47,670
us. 
Your dragon, though. 

547
00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:51,390
Agon that does. 
And it's I just want to be fair 

548
00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:53,270
to Stannis. 
It's not that he was approaching

549
00:26:53,270 --> 00:26:55,150
it wrong. 
That's just the scenario that 

550
00:26:55,150 --> 00:26:57,590
was there. 
Like he was legally correct and 

551
00:26:57,590 --> 00:27:01,030
Agon was more powerful. 
You know if Stannis had been 

552
00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:02,630
more powerful, he probably would
have been. 

553
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:05,310
Stannis might not have Stannis 
might not have included in the 

554
00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:07,230
letter. 
He might have said these are the

555
00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:10,230
facts believe. 
Me or not, you know, Yeah. 

556
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:11,990
It would have been different. 
True, if he was, if he was 

557
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:14,830
bargaining or sending letters 
out from a bigger position of 

558
00:27:14,830 --> 00:27:16,910
strength. 
Yeah, which he himself puts out.

559
00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:21,190
Remember that guy said in the 
first chapter his, his wife is 

560
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:22,910
like you. 
It's just like you're just like 

561
00:27:22,910 --> 00:27:25,590
Agon, you know, you had a small 
army and this and that. 

562
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:28,270
We're here on Dragon, so he's 
like, he had Dragons. 

563
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:31,430
Hello. 
You know, don't forget that. 

564
00:27:31,670 --> 00:27:33,910
I will say that even though I 
was trying to contrast and 

565
00:27:33,910 --> 00:27:37,550
there's a parallel to Agon 
doesn't try to justify why he's 

566
00:27:37,550 --> 00:27:40,050
doing it. 
Like legal or not, like, it 

567
00:27:40,050 --> 00:27:43,490
seems like he had decent 
justification, but that wasn't 

568
00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:45,450
part of what he was doing. 
He's like, I'm just more 

569
00:27:45,450 --> 00:27:48,250
powerful. 
He stands like I just am legally

570
00:27:48,250 --> 00:27:49,810
the one. 
You know the neither of them 

571
00:27:49,810 --> 00:27:52,250
were necessarily offering 
justifications, just which, 

572
00:27:52,250 --> 00:27:56,210
which is in a lot of Westerosi 
minds strength is a 

573
00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:58,250
justification. 
Like that's a hard maybe hard 

574
00:27:58,250 --> 00:27:59,690
for us to wrap ourselves mind 
around. 

575
00:27:59,690 --> 00:28:05,290
But like when Bailon took the 
north, it was brought up a 

576
00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:07,450
council and someone was like 
well by what right to see 

577
00:28:07,450 --> 00:28:10,810
holdings like and Tywin's like 
by right of conquest like that's

578
00:28:10,810 --> 00:28:11,890
how he has it. 
You know. 

579
00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:14,450
He's like he took it. 
So it's his like if he can hold 

580
00:28:14,450 --> 00:28:16,370
it to the law if he can hold it,
it's his you know. 

581
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:19,250
And and so Tywin was very just 
matter of fact about it. 

582
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:22,970
Like y'all this is, this is this
is how our realm works. 

583
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,920
If someone takes it and holds 
it, it's theirs. 

584
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,640
Like how do you not get that? 
You know? 

585
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,200
So in that Tywin was right. 
I mean, you don't have to agree 

586
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,800
with that being the the right 
way to do. 

587
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,240
Things, but it is the way the 
stated thing should be. 

588
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,400
But it is the state of things, 
yeah. 

589
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,160
It's a fact whether we want it 
to be or not. 

590
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,200
Exactly. 
So that's very interesting. 

591
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,160
And it's the fact that we don't 
have to listen to laws. 

592
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,240
You know, like the law is the 
law, but that doesn't mean we 

593
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,320
have to obey the law. 
We're powerful enough to disobey

594
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,400
the law. 
We can or lots. 

595
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,640
That happens to laws all the 
time. 

596
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,640
If if you're not going to get 
caught or you can't be 

597
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,560
imprisoned, you're above the 
law, then you might choose to 

598
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,880
not obey that law. 
You know, like people do that 

599
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,400
large and small all the time in 
the real world. 

600
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,570
King Ronald Aaron was a quote 
boy. 

601
00:29:07,570 --> 00:29:10,970
We don't have an exact age, but 
the subtext is that this is not 

602
00:29:10,970 --> 00:29:12,490
like a diminutive. 
They're not trying to make him 

603
00:29:12,490 --> 00:29:14,450
seem younger. 
He really is quite young. 

604
00:29:14,530 --> 00:29:17,530
I think 11 is probably the 
oldest, I would guess, but I'm, 

605
00:29:17,530 --> 00:29:20,450
I would actually guess more like
8, maybe even 7. 

606
00:29:21,530 --> 00:29:23,450
So I'm not sure. 
But very, very young. 

607
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:26,730
Too too young enough to have 
very little idea what's 

608
00:29:26,730 --> 00:29:30,050
happening to not make any 
decisions or just be like mom, 

609
00:29:30,050 --> 00:29:32,050
what's you know, I want to have 
dinner, you know, that kind of 

610
00:29:32,050 --> 00:29:32,570
thing. 
Not a. 

611
00:29:32,940 --> 00:29:35,260
Even if someone made a point of 
trying to explain it all to him,

612
00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:38,220
he still couldn't understand the
context or some of the literal 

613
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:40,180
words that were being used in 
the conversation. 

614
00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:43,620
So a lot about Ronald Call calls
up images of sweet Robin, 

615
00:29:43,620 --> 00:29:47,900
Ronald, Robert, you know, Ronald
Aaron, Robert Aaron being a boy,

616
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:50,940
having a mother as Regent, you 
know, this mother trying to 

617
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:53,740
negotiate with bigger powers and
things like that. 

618
00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:56,940
There are some similarities, but
a lot of them are just kind of 

619
00:29:56,940 --> 00:29:59,500
surface level. 
Actually, Nina even said go so 

620
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,480
far as to call it a possible red
herring to make us think of 

621
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,400
Sweet Robin, but it's the 
differences are pretty 

622
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,240
substantial, so we'll see that 
as we're moving through this 

623
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,200
episode. 
I wanted to throw that out 

624
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,600
early, in case you were already 
thinking of Sweet Robin. 

625
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:19,120
It is a a good catch, but 
ultimately it's going to fork in

626
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,680
the road for a lot of reasons. 
Is it a? 

627
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Red Falcon. 
The Red Falcon. 

628
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:24,840
Nice. 
I like it. 

629
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,040
So Queen Shara and her advisors 
ordered the assembly of a fleet 

630
00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:33,410
which included assistance from 
the Sea Lord of Bravos who sent 

631
00:30:33,410 --> 00:30:36,770
a dozen warships to their aid. 
We're curious to know if this 

632
00:30:36,770 --> 00:30:40,490
was due to an existing alliance.
Maybe they already had trade, a 

633
00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:44,650
trade deal or had good we're on 
good terms for other reasons or 

634
00:30:44,650 --> 00:30:47,930
because the Bravosi are already 
anti Valyrian, or maybe maybe a 

635
00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:49,330
little both. 
That may be why they were 

636
00:30:49,330 --> 00:30:52,890
willing to help Now. 
One of the reasons why we 

637
00:30:52,890 --> 00:30:55,770
suspect an alliance, or at least
a good relationship between 

638
00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:59,930
Queen Shara or just the veil in 
general and Bravos, is that 

639
00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:02,220
they're so close Bravos in the 
face. 

640
00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:05,660
I mean, they're like just to 
skip over the narrow sea there, 

641
00:31:06,380 --> 00:31:09,700
so it's easy to forget that. 
But the Vail and Bravos are 

642
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:15,940
geographic neighbors, really, so
they would have a lot of 

643
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:18,900
dealings with each other. 
And yeah, the Bravosi might 

644
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:23,600
still be thinking of the past 
Dragon Lords or the more recent 

645
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,960
Emperor Orion, the guy who tried
to reestablish the Valyrian 

646
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,160
Empire that had only been, you 
know, 100 years gone. 

647
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,800
So it wasn't a super long time 
ago. 

648
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,120
It would still be in a lot of 
people's memories, especially 

649
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,560
powerful people who who think 
about such things. 

650
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,520
And the Bravosi would certainly 
have a long memory about 

651
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,400
Valyrian things. 
So they may have been wary of 

652
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,920
that. 
It's definitely a possibility 

653
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,200
that it was on their minds. 
They wouldn't want to see a new 

654
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,840
Valyrian oriented dynasty arise 
after another one had fall and 

655
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,040
so soon. 
Like, Dang it, they're coming 

656
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,360
back because they don't know 
that Agon is going to convert to

657
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,200
the Seven and all it's going to.
They don't know that at all. 

658
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,880
They don't know he's going to 
bring slavery to what? 

659
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,760
They have no idea. 
I just said didn't occur to me 

660
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,680
they might be really worried 
that he's about to reinstall 

661
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,240
slavery on a whole new 
continent. 

662
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:06,960
Yeah, they have. 
No. 

663
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,000
Yeah. 
They have no idea what kind of 

664
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,880
king he's going to be. 
And and frankly, neither do a 

665
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,200
lot of the Westerosi Lords, you 
know, even the king, even the 

666
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,560
one he's coming for, they don't 
exactly know what he's going to 

667
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,360
do. 
They have an idea. 

668
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,760
Maybe the way he's carried 
himself, we presented himself, 

669
00:32:18,190 --> 00:32:21,070
and as the war progresses and 
more and more people submit to 

670
00:32:21,070 --> 00:32:23,070
get more and more evidence of 
how these people are going to be

671
00:32:23,070 --> 00:32:25,910
treated, that could still make 
them suspicious, though. 

672
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:28,310
He's only treated them that way 
in the short term until we've 

673
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:29,670
all submitted. 
Then he's going to do something 

674
00:32:29,670 --> 00:32:31,670
different like. 
Or even if he doesn't, even if 

675
00:32:31,670 --> 00:32:35,830
he continues to be prudent, 
yeah, How does his son? 

676
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:38,550
Does he even have a son? 
Right. 

677
00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:41,590
So yeah, there's lots of 
concerns to have and a lot of 

678
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:43,830
people might have just said, 
hey, we don't want anyone power 

679
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:47,800
to dominate Westeros. 
That's not something great, you 

680
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,640
know, you don't want to. 
We would rather not have that. 

681
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,560
Bravos might want that cuz 
Bravos might think, well, if 

682
00:32:54,560 --> 00:33:00,040
there's this big unified power 
to our W, it might become a 

683
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,440
threat to our independence in 
the long term and then not be a 

684
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,880
short term problem. 
But. 

685
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,640
Who knows, even aside from the 
potential future problems or 

686
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,160
even the potential of it 
becoming better overall. 

687
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,560
It would still be changed in a 
short run, yeah. 

688
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,360
They probably have certain 
alliances and treaties and trade

689
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,200
routes and such set up with the 
Veil and the Crown lands and. 

690
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,840
Or it's not the crown lands yet,
but the storm lands and. 

691
00:33:23,230 --> 00:33:26,630
So on and so now this is all 
going to become disruptive and 

692
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:30,270
they might have to rework deals.
Old debts might come into 

693
00:33:30,270 --> 00:33:33,190
question, so on and so on. 
So you could see why this might 

694
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:35,510
be concerning. 
Even if they could see a long 

695
00:33:35,510 --> 00:33:38,270
run where it's better, they can 
easily see a long run where it's

696
00:33:38,270 --> 00:33:40,830
worse if this Targaryen starts 
up slavery again, right? 

697
00:33:40,830 --> 00:33:42,350
So that's a great point about 
debt. 

698
00:33:42,390 --> 00:33:47,390
If if the Veil had a debt to 
Bravos and they got conquered, 

699
00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:50,350
would that debt just be 
obliterated and say no, that 

700
00:33:50,350 --> 00:33:52,910
doesn't exist anymore. 
Your debt was to the throne of 

701
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,640
errands, which no longer exists.
Like, remember, that was 

702
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,720
conditioned for Stannis, the 
Byron, the Iron Bank's. 

703
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,200
Like, we'll back you, but only 
if you take on all the debts 

704
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,240
from your enemies that they they
owe us all this money. 

705
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,400
You have to take on that and pay
us back and we'll we'll we'll, 

706
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,159
we'll give you more money And 
Santa is like, damn, but OK, 

707
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:11,560
it's like that's worth it. 
But Ouch. 

708
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,560
That's going to be expensive, 
but it's not coming out of his 

709
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:14,880
pocket. 
So you know. 

710
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,080
Can I can I share an anecdote of
an anecdote? 

711
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,159
OK. 
We saw Rowan Junior, the 

712
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,520
comedian. 
Yeah, and he had this story 

713
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,420
about. 
This friend he had who owed him 

714
00:34:23,420 --> 00:34:27,620
1200 bucks and man this like you
know how he got out of it? 

715
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:33,820
He went up and died. 
The audacity to leave this? 

716
00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:37,060
Earth no one owes me. 
He should have put that in his 

717
00:34:37,060 --> 00:34:39,020
will. 
Yeah, like I owed him 12 of 

718
00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:40,340
them. 
Make sure he gets taken care of 

719
00:34:40,460 --> 00:34:47,040
if I pass, so if bravo, so 
that's another thing from 

720
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,520
Bravo's angle or two other 
things really. 

721
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,800
If you're an independent city 
state, you really don't want any

722
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,560
big powers around you. 
Like as your neighbor, you want 

723
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,800
them to be sort of smaller and 
piecemeal. 

724
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,080
I think in in most cases, 
especially given their 

725
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,800
experience with large powers, 
Cuz they're big experience with 

726
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,800
large powers is Valeria, which 
is obviously wasn't good for 

727
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,660
them. 
But also if the Targaryens rule 

728
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:12,740
Westeros, is that who they have 
to trade with? 

729
00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:14,900
If the trade with the Valyrians 
now like that's who have to 

730
00:35:15,020 --> 00:35:16,700
arrange these deals with, that's
not great. 

731
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:19,620
I mean it would still be mostly 
done under the auspices of these

732
00:35:19,620 --> 00:35:21,580
individuals and they're not 
trading ever doesn't doesn't 

733
00:35:21,580 --> 00:35:24,660
flow directly through the king. 
But those were those taxes will 

734
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:27,260
be going and all that and be 
like it would rub them wrong, I 

735
00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:28,700
think. 
Anyway, there's plenty of reason

736
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,620
to see why Bravos would take the
veil side here. 

737
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,080
That it's it. 
There's there's a long list. 

738
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,800
Of can we mention it? 
Maybe they haven't seen the 

739
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,320
Dragons yet either, right? 
Another reason other people were

740
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,960
blowing and they gone off. 
That is entirely possible and 

741
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,160
maybe they wish they had, given 
how this battle is going to go, 

742
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,800
which we'll see in a moment. 
So she also sent an army to the 

743
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,840
Bloody Gate which to beef it up 
now a confrontation there would 

744
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,820
have been very interesting. 
It would have been stupid to try

745
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:55,940
a traditional battle there for 
the attackers, given how 

746
00:35:55,940 --> 00:35:59,140
advantage it is for the 
defenders in the long history of

747
00:35:59,140 --> 00:36:01,980
armies just shattering 
themselves to bloody pulp at the

748
00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:03,260
Bloody Gate. 
That's why it's called the 

749
00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:07,700
Bloody Gate. 
But a dragon, everyone packed in

750
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:11,220
so tight like that, coming down 
above like it becomes it goes 

751
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:13,820
from a big advantage to a big 
disadvantage, quite possibly, 

752
00:36:13,820 --> 00:36:16,380
depending on exactly how the 
terrain is like. 

753
00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:19,460
It's not like we seen it. 
So it comes the BBQ gate, Yeah, 

754
00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:22,460
yeah, yeah, exactly. 
The the the fire gate. 

755
00:36:22,460 --> 00:36:25,140
Exactly. 
So it would have been 

756
00:36:25,140 --> 00:36:29,380
interesting to see in a, you 
know, bloody awful way, but 

757
00:36:30,140 --> 00:36:32,700
thankfully fictional. 
But she didn't come to that 

758
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:34,460
because as I said, the 
Targaryens were like, yeah, 

759
00:36:34,460 --> 00:36:36,780
we're not going to send an army 
against that, that that never 

760
00:36:36,780 --> 00:36:39,220
works. 
So she ordered the defenses 

761
00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:42,980
strengthened elsewhere too, 
particularly Gall Town. 

762
00:36:43,060 --> 00:36:46,020
Now Gall Town is super important
here. 

763
00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:48,340
It's one of the true 5 cities in
Westeros. 

764
00:36:48,820 --> 00:36:52,820
Funny that two of those five 
cities cities have the word town

765
00:36:52,820 --> 00:36:55,580
in the Old Town and Gull Town. 
Got to start somewhere. 

766
00:36:55,580 --> 00:36:57,180
Yeah, they they started small. 
Exactly. 

767
00:36:57,180 --> 00:37:00,100
Nina wrote the same thing here, 
there, you know, there are 

768
00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:02,940
errands of Gull Town, like kind 
of like the Lannisters of Landis

769
00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:05,460
Port, but they haven't been 
around nearly as long. 

770
00:37:05,460 --> 00:37:07,020
In fact, they're not around at 
this point. 

771
00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:10,300
They're they'd only come around 
until the time of J Harry's the 

772
00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:11,500
first. 
So if you're wondering about 

773
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:13,540
that, if you're someone thinking
about the errands of Gull Town, 

774
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:15,220
don't because they don't exist 
yet. 

775
00:37:16,060 --> 00:37:17,620
It's actually ruled by House 
Grafton. 

776
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:21,380
The Graftons notably have a 
sigil that has a good deal in 

777
00:37:21,380 --> 00:37:23,740
common with the Hightower sigil.
Look at all that fire. 

778
00:37:24,460 --> 00:37:26,060
It looks like kind of like the 
Hightower, right? 

779
00:37:26,060 --> 00:37:29,500
It looks like a tower on fire. 
Word is that the that House 

780
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:32,180
Coharas was bummed that this was
already taken cuz you know they 

781
00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:35,730
took over a castle with burning 
towers and like y'all already 

782
00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:37,730
have a burning tower schedule. 
We'll have to do something else.

783
00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:40,490
Nina wrote some words for House 
Grafton because they don't have 

784
00:37:40,490 --> 00:37:42,450
any and they are so burns our 
faith. 

785
00:37:42,450 --> 00:37:44,610
It's pretty good. 
I mean burning yeah they're they

786
00:37:44,610 --> 00:37:50,130
are a House of and alls. 
They took the house over from 

787
00:37:50,290 --> 00:37:52,970
its previous owners of the first
men who were House Shet. 

788
00:37:53,330 --> 00:37:57,330
What's interesting is that House
Shet is still around and they 

789
00:37:57,330 --> 00:38:00,930
live in Gulltown, so the shets 
were overthrown, but they still 

790
00:38:00,930 --> 00:38:06,090
exist and have a tower in Gull 
Town called Gull Tower though it

791
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:08,930
was the Grafton's who actually 
grew the city larger. 

792
00:38:08,930 --> 00:38:12,850
Like to be fair, yes they took 
it from the Shets, but it was a 

793
00:38:12,850 --> 00:38:16,210
town back then and now it's a 
city under the Grafton's that 

794
00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:18,170
grew to its current size. 
We may have any way, though. 

795
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:21,050
It is an excellent natural 
harbor built for this sort of 

796
00:38:21,050 --> 00:38:25,490
thing, or built naturally 
occurring perfectly for the sort

797
00:38:25,490 --> 00:38:27,610
of thing it was the building 
game later. 

798
00:38:28,210 --> 00:38:30,490
And very minor point. 
I don't have some reason to 

799
00:38:30,490 --> 00:38:33,050
defend the shets or anything, 
but it could be that it grew to 

800
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:36,410
a city despite the grafton's. 
Maybe the shets really laid the 

801
00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:38,010
groundwork. 
And yeah, that's true. 

802
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:39,730
That's a good, but it's entirely
possible. 

803
00:38:40,210 --> 00:38:43,990
So it's probably similar in size
to White Harbor, roughly because

804
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:45,390
it is. 
It's apparently much smaller 

805
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:47,430
than King's Landing, Old Town, 
or Landis Port, and White Harbor

806
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:50,350
is the only other city which 
isn't mentioned in that phrasing

807
00:38:50,350 --> 00:38:52,190
about how it's much smaller than
those three. 

808
00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:55,430
So I'm guessing there's three 
big cities and two smaller 

809
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:57,150
cities. 
It's the central reason the Veil

810
00:38:57,150 --> 00:39:00,830
can stay supplied even in winter
with a wide variety of goods. 

811
00:39:01,350 --> 00:39:04,870
And as I just said, part of that
reason for that is it's in a 

812
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:08,830
very hot trade location. 
It's right in the middle of the 

813
00:39:08,830 --> 00:39:12,190
continent on the Eastern 
seaboard, and that's where a ton

814
00:39:12,190 --> 00:39:15,070
of trade is. 
Right across the way is Bravos. 

815
00:39:15,070 --> 00:39:19,150
As we said, it's the closest of 
the Westerosi major locations to

816
00:39:19,150 --> 00:39:21,590
Bravos. 
It's not too far from Pentos 

817
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:25,830
Mere, Tyrash on the other side, 
and then on its own side. 

818
00:39:25,830 --> 00:39:28,270
It's close to White Harbor and 
King's Landing in Dunscandale, 

819
00:39:28,270 --> 00:39:33,070
and everyone would stop there on
the way going to other places. 

820
00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:34,910
So it's just a really big, 
important place. 

821
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:36,750
Even though it isn't talked 
about a lot, it's hugely 

822
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,550
important. 
It's the halfway point between 

823
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:41,350
King's Landing and White Harbor.
They they would stop at all 

824
00:39:41,350 --> 00:39:45,190
three, a lot of ships coming by.
Given the remoteness of the Erie

825
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:47,990
and the value of Gull Town, it's
pretty easy to see why this was 

826
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:51,070
the target, why the ship sailed 
for this port to try to take it,

827
00:39:51,110 --> 00:39:55,430
and because in theory, taking 
Gull Town alone might be enough 

828
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:57,870
to force the errands to 
capitulate like the entire veil.

829
00:39:58,030 --> 00:40:00,230
If they hold it long enough, and
like winter comes, the entire 

830
00:40:00,230 --> 00:40:02,550
Veil might be like okay, we got 
to give up. 

831
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:04,790
We don't have our port. 
We should listen to the North. 

832
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:09,990
Yeah, and the Targaryens 
presumably knew that. 

833
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:12,970
They knew all this and the 
errands knew that. 

834
00:40:12,970 --> 00:40:15,050
The Garions knew this. 
It's all pretty out in the open,

835
00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:18,250
like take the city and the whole
region might fall. 

836
00:40:18,250 --> 00:40:21,050
It's pretty straightforward. 
So plans were made accordingly 

837
00:40:21,050 --> 00:40:24,020
on both sides. 
I still want to say even when 

838
00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:27,220
things are all out, there is 
still take someone to bother to 

839
00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:29,860
gather that information and make
a good decision based on it. 

840
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:32,100
I still want to give a gone 
credit for piecing it together 

841
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:34,860
properly because there's lots of
stuff that's all out there and 

842
00:40:34,860 --> 00:40:37,620
then some leader still makes the
worst decision given, you know, 

843
00:40:37,620 --> 00:40:41,340
like it was laid all out there 
for our GALAC, right? 

844
00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:43,260
Yeah. 
It was laid all out there for 

845
00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:45,780
our galac and he still just his 
pride, his personality were 

846
00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:47,360
such. 
We're such well known 

847
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,280
quantities. 
Like, this is an older man who 

848
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,320
had a long career. 
Like his personality is out 

849
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,360
there, but he knows kind of what
kind of man he is. 

850
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,640
He's been this way for a long 
time. 

851
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,040
And it's not like people change 
a lot when they're older, you 

852
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,480
know? 
I mean, people don't necessarily

853
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,640
change a lot when they're 
younger either, but you have 

854
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,400
more time to change when you're.
Younger, that's true. 

855
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,720
Yeah. 
You're less set in your ways, 

856
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,160
etcetera. 
So it was a little more 

857
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,400
understandable. 
And of course, as we said at the

858
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,760
beginning, there was also a 
little more wiggle room like our

859
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,540
Galac had basically. 
Set things that there could only

860
00:41:17,540 --> 00:41:19,100
be 1 result. 
He's like he cut the hands of 

861
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:22,420
the end point like that's it. 
Like this is it's going this has

862
00:41:22,420 --> 00:41:23,940
to be dealt with one way or 
another. 

863
00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:25,660
There's no, there's no coming 
back from that. 

864
00:41:25,660 --> 00:41:27,540
Meanwhile here in the veil 
though they hadn't gone. 

865
00:41:27,820 --> 00:41:32,180
Nothing had been made personal. 
There weren't violations of 

866
00:41:32,180 --> 00:41:34,460
diplomacy. 
There was a willingness to 

867
00:41:34,460 --> 00:41:37,340
compromise on the errand side. 
So there's there was more room 

868
00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:38,380
here. 
And as we'll see that's going to

869
00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:40,700
play out eventually, but not for
quite a while. 

870
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:43,260
There's a lot going to happen in
the meantime before that. 

871
00:41:44,050 --> 00:41:46,090
I really wonder what the mood 
was like in Gulltown and the 

872
00:41:46,090 --> 00:41:49,450
rest of the Veil, as we did with
some of these other kingdoms, 

873
00:41:49,450 --> 00:41:51,570
like with our Galac. 
It's almost straightforward. 

874
00:41:52,090 --> 00:41:54,770
They had been his men for so 
long, they'd fought at his side 

875
00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:57,250
for so long. 
Westeros being what it is, 

876
00:41:57,730 --> 00:42:00,010
they're going to follow him. 
He had been their king forever. 

877
00:42:00,010 --> 00:42:01,650
They'd fought, you know, he'd 
fought all these battles, won 

878
00:42:01,650 --> 00:42:03,330
all these victories. 
There's really no other way for 

879
00:42:03,330 --> 00:42:04,010
it to go. 
They had. 

880
00:42:04,010 --> 00:42:06,450
They were going to follow him. 
Queen Shara, it's a little 

881
00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:08,600
different. 
Westeros isn't as big on 

882
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,240
following women. 
She's not some war hero, right? 

883
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,240
Everybody recognizes that. 
She won't even be in charge in a

884
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:15,520
few years once her son comes of 
age. 

885
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,080
So you don't wanna like offend 
her or like insult her, but it's

886
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,800
not gonna get your home burned 
down for. 

887
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,040
Right, exactly. 
It's not the same. 

888
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,640
You haven't fought by her side 
your whole life, where this is 

889
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:26,760
what a lot of these Lords are 
thinking. 

890
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,960
So it's a much different 
calculus. 

891
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,280
It's a much different scenario. 
They kind of knew what we were 

892
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,600
faced with in the Storm lands. 
It was going to come down to a 

893
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,260
big conflict here. 
Like there's there's no, like 

894
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:41,420
central battleground. 
There's no big place to meet, 

895
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:43,260
you know, there it's so 
different. 

896
00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:46,140
The Veil is such a different 
theater of war than the storm 

897
00:42:46,140 --> 00:42:49,540
lands. 
There's no big rain issue. 

898
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:52,380
There's not trees everywhere 
that soldiers can hide in, which

899
00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:54,780
is a big deal for concealing 
themselves from the dragon. 

900
00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:58,700
It's just very different. 
So I can't say enough about how 

901
00:42:58,700 --> 00:43:00,420
different it is. 
So I really wonder what the 

902
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:03,500
Lords of the Veil we're 
thinking. 

903
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:05,720
I mean. 
You've got tradition, which is 

904
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,440
so powerful in keeping some of 
these things in place. 

905
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,280
It's one of the main reasons why
so many of these Lords are so 

906
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,720
stubborn. 
So many kings and Queens are so 

907
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:16,920
stubborn about giving up because
their families have held this 

908
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,680
for so long. 
And they're going to be the one 

909
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,920
written about in history because
the one that lost it like this 

910
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,960
is after 8000 years. 
Queen Shara is the one that 

911
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,240
delayed on the ground. 
King R Galaq is the one that 

912
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:29,960
finally lost it. 
You know, like they don't want 

913
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,080
to be the one in the history 
books to be remembered. 

914
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,920
Like they want to be remembered 
after they're gone. 

915
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,400
Not for that, right? 
A lot of times to the traditions

916
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,800
it can be a mistake. 
Maybe sometimes I stick to them,

917
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,200
but there's something to be said
for them. 

918
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,880
There's arguments to be made, 
but but what happens is things 

919
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,090
are built upon that as well, 
right? 

920
00:43:48,410 --> 00:43:51,410
Your your your reality, your 
decisions, your relationships 

921
00:43:51,410 --> 00:43:53,810
with people all built upon it. 
So if you abandon that, you're 

922
00:43:53,810 --> 00:43:56,690
kind of abandoning everything. 
And that's it's it's so it's so 

923
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:59,930
easier to look back with 
hindsight, you know, to say, oh 

924
00:43:59,970 --> 00:44:01,730
man, it should just abandon that
tradition, you know? 

925
00:44:01,930 --> 00:44:05,090
But I'm thinking, for example, 
like, some of Einstein's 

926
00:44:05,090 --> 00:44:08,740
theories he was coming up with 
were just almost completely 

927
00:44:08,740 --> 00:44:11,140
directed by almost the entire 
scientific community. 

928
00:44:11,140 --> 00:44:13,860
And I don't know, 30 years 
later, they're like, oh, he was 

929
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:15,660
completely right. 
You know, like. 

930
00:44:16,060 --> 00:44:17,660
And they weren't a bunch of 
morons. 

931
00:44:17,660 --> 00:44:21,020
They were highly educated, but 
they just had all this sense of 

932
00:44:21,020 --> 00:44:24,220
reality built on other pieces of
reality. 

933
00:44:24,340 --> 00:44:27,620
And when he challenges those 
fundamental things, you have to 

934
00:44:27,620 --> 00:44:29,900
abandon everything else. 
And it's not easy to do. 

935
00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:31,660
It's understandably not easy to 
do. 

936
00:44:31,660 --> 00:44:33,740
It's yeah, it's like changing 
your entire reality. 

937
00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:35,540
Everything you thought had been 
real and everything you thought 

938
00:44:35,660 --> 00:44:37,590
was real. 
That your parents thought you 

939
00:44:37,590 --> 00:44:39,830
were grandparents and this is, 
this is the part of it, is hard 

940
00:44:39,830 --> 00:44:43,990
to comprehend because we don't 
have our own history does 

941
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:46,590
stretch back this far, but not 
in a way that we can attach 

942
00:44:46,590 --> 00:44:47,590
ourselves. 
There's no way that we can 

943
00:44:47,590 --> 00:44:49,590
connect with like they 
potentially can't hear. 

944
00:44:49,590 --> 00:44:53,870
Like these people can go. 
My family was here this long 

945
00:44:53,870 --> 00:44:55,870
ago. 
You know, like, I can't say that

946
00:44:55,870 --> 00:45:00,550
like my family wasn't in America
even 300 years, even 200 years 

947
00:45:00,550 --> 00:45:02,070
ago. 
Well then, yeah, they were, But 

948
00:45:02,310 --> 00:45:05,350
still nowhere near thousands of 
years. 

949
00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:10,790
So yeah, it's really hard to 
fathom what's at stake in terms 

950
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:13,950
of of pride and tradition and 
culture. 

951
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:19,030
And that's part of why Aegon has
to just prove how strong he is, 

952
00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:21,470
because he that's part of what 
he has to overcome is he does 

953
00:45:21,470 --> 00:45:23,270
have to challenge their reality,
yeah. 

954
00:45:23,470 --> 00:45:25,990
Yeah, he has to prove that he's 
stronger than that, that this is

955
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:29,310
better, that this new world can 
work better in a lot of ways. 

956
00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:32,100
And but they have to it has to 
be proven because they can't 

957
00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:34,860
imagine it by themselves because
there it does their their 

958
00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:37,300
existing worldview doesn't allow
for that sort of imagination. 

959
00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:38,460
It doesn't fit in that 
worldview. 

960
00:45:38,460 --> 00:45:42,100
One king, a dragon rider like 
these things have they've never 

961
00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:42,940
imagined it. 
Yeah. 

962
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:46,020
All right. 
Let's take a quick break and 

963
00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:49,140
we'll come back with the actual 
battle and the continuation of 

964
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:51,660
the campaign in the veil. 
You know the name Damon 

965
00:45:51,660 --> 00:45:53,380
Velarian. 
This Lord Damon Velarian who's 

966
00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:57,220
ruling the the drift mark at 
this point and and ruling House 

967
00:45:57,220 --> 00:45:59,380
of Laurian. 
He's the master masterships. 

968
00:45:59,890 --> 00:46:02,810
Even though he predates, you 
know, Prince Damon and the era 

969
00:46:02,810 --> 00:46:05,250
of the dance, Damon is always 
like associated with the 

970
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:07,850
Valerians, you know, on the TV 
show and in the book. 

971
00:46:07,850 --> 00:46:10,410
So she, he raised valerian 
children as his own. 

972
00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:14,250
You know, with Renera, you know,
not on his own, but I meant to 

973
00:46:14,250 --> 00:46:17,970
say as his own and and she was 
married to a valerian, you know,

974
00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:20,090
and he's allies with a sea 
snake. 

975
00:46:20,850 --> 00:46:23,970
So it's just like his name is 
throws me off as it's like Damon

976
00:46:23,970 --> 00:46:26,290
Valerian and guess what, Damon 
Valerian's son. 

977
00:46:26,330 --> 00:46:32,680
Ethan named his first born son. 
Damon Villare Yeah, so it 

978
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,520
doesn't get less confusing, but 
it's cool. 

979
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,440
It's realistic. 
They do name themselves after 

980
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,280
their after their ancestors, 
which hey happens in the real 

981
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,680
world too, right? 
I want to point out real quick, 

982
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,720
even though I'm in town out of 
out of normal spot, I still have

983
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:50,600
a crazy mixed. 
Yeah, we skipped over your your 

984
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:53,360
crazy beverage. 
I wanted to make a joke too 

985
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:54,880
about. 
I couldn't find a big mug so I 

986
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,080
just have a shot glass and I 
wish I had a blue drink. 

987
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,440
I wanted to represent the the 
air in blue. 

988
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,760
But yeah, but I have a 
watermelon Red Bull mixed with 

989
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,320
the naked green machine, and 
it's tasty. 

990
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,600
Your your drink kind of matches 
my shirt. 

991
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,920
We're both wearing history of 
Westeros shirts, as we pointed 

992
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,840
out at the beginning. 
But now I get to point out the 

993
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,920
the color connection they're in.
We're representing. 

994
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:22,030
Here we go talking about the. 
Prince Damon and the Dance of 

995
00:47:22,030 --> 00:47:24,310
the Dragons and we've got our 
blacks and Greens on. 

996
00:47:24,510 --> 00:47:27,430
I'm unmuting myself for the 
first time in the episode to 

997
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:30,990
point out my shirt, which is an 
R flag, means Death shirt. 

998
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:33,030
Yeah, because I. 
Mean Super hype because the 

999
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:35,950
Season 2 comes back in a week 
and a half, two weeks or so. 

1000
00:47:36,310 --> 00:47:38,750
Yeah, that's pretty soon. 
Yeah, that's right. 

1001
00:47:38,750 --> 00:47:40,030
Very cool. 
Yeah, Very exciting. 

1002
00:47:40,070 --> 00:47:41,990
We were worried that would be a 
casualty. 

1003
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:45,030
It took a while for them to 
announce that Season 2 was gonna

1004
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:46,350
happen. 
It was like everybody was like, 

1005
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:47,830
anxious. 
Like, is it gonna happen? 

1006
00:47:47,830 --> 00:47:51,710
Is it gonna make it? 
But yes, anyone there who who 

1007
00:47:52,030 --> 00:47:53,710
doesn't know that show should 
probably watch it. 

1008
00:47:53,710 --> 00:47:56,990
Especially if you like humor and
pirates and many other things 

1009
00:47:56,990 --> 00:48:00,670
that are in there too. 
But but also Reese Darby and 

1010
00:48:00,670 --> 00:48:04,110
Taika Watiti who are primary 
drivers behind that show, are 

1011
00:48:04,110 --> 00:48:07,110
also primary drivers behind 
Flight of the Concords from a 

1012
00:48:07,110 --> 00:48:09,030
Generation Back. 
Another show that I love a lot. 

1013
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,040
Yep, which is also hilarious. 
If you haven't seen fly to the 

1014
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,800
conchord, you also need to watch
that. 

1015
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,840
Question from Julie A. 
Did we hear what's in the shot 

1016
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,920
glass or shouldn't we ask? 
It was just the Red Bull. 

1017
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:25,600
Sorry, that's so boring. 
He shot Red Bull, Not I might 

1018
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,160
fly away in the second-half 
here. 

1019
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,960
Not green bowl or blue bowl or 
just Red Bull. 

1020
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,680
I wish it had been Blue Falcon. 
If it had been those three 

1021
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,520
colors, it's the Trident color. 
We get the the Riverlands bowl, 

1022
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:42,600
the Trident Bowl. 
Mm HM, Okay, Let's talk about 

1023
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,400
the battle off Gulltown. 
That's right, off not of, 

1024
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,520
because it was in the water 
outside of Gulltown. 

1025
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,480
Not in Gulltown, is that? 
Yeah. 

1026
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:53,840
Like, how do you usually say 
that? 

1027
00:48:54,420 --> 00:48:56,940
I thought when you were talking 
about the the battlefield, but 

1028
00:48:56,940 --> 00:48:58,820
it's the ocean. 
Battlefront maybe could cover 

1029
00:48:58,820 --> 00:48:59,620
it. 
I don't know if that's the 

1030
00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:02,900
correct terminology for. 
A like a lot of battles are 

1031
00:49:02,900 --> 00:49:05,740
still the said battle of Blank, 
and it's even when it's in the 

1032
00:49:05,740 --> 00:49:07,900
water, so I don't know if 
sometimes it's not that. 

1033
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:12,140
But anyway, not important. 
The Navy's Other than the 12 

1034
00:49:12,140 --> 00:49:14,580
Bravosi warships on the Veil 
side, we're not actually too 

1035
00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:16,820
clear on how large either force 
was. 

1036
00:49:16,820 --> 00:49:20,300
It says the air in fleet was 
hastily assembled, which is an 

1037
00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:22,780
interesting thing to consider 
with those Bravosi warships like

1038
00:49:23,260 --> 00:49:26,610
they knew. 
The dragon, or a dragon, or 

1039
00:49:26,610 --> 00:49:27,890
several dragon. 
They didn't know at first who 

1040
00:49:27,890 --> 00:49:29,730
was coming for them, but they 
knew the targetings would come 

1041
00:49:29,730 --> 00:49:32,490
for them, and they figured that 
ships would be involved. 

1042
00:49:33,610 --> 00:49:36,210
So this must have happened 
pretty quickly because this was 

1043
00:49:36,210 --> 00:49:40,730
this battle that we're about to 
describe, probably the first 

1044
00:49:40,730 --> 00:49:44,010
battle of the war outside of the
battle between. 

1045
00:49:44,740 --> 00:49:48,180
Aegon Oris and the Lords of 
Maidenpool and Dunscandale that 

1046
00:49:48,260 --> 00:49:51,380
ganged up on him because this 
apparently happened around the 

1047
00:49:51,380 --> 00:49:55,140
same time Aegon's forces were 
ambushed while marching up the 

1048
00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:57,820
God's eye. 
So quite possibly the first 

1049
00:49:57,820 --> 00:50:01,140
major battle of the war, which 
is interesting because it's 

1050
00:50:01,140 --> 00:50:04,500
happening at Gulltown, which is 
where the first major battle of 

1051
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:06,300
Robert rebellion was at 
Gulltown. 

1052
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:09,340
Because the Lord of the Vale you
know, rather the Lord of Lord 

1053
00:50:09,340 --> 00:50:12,810
Grafton sided with King Aries. 
And was not going to allow 

1054
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:15,530
Robert to leave the Vail. 
I'll take a ship to get to the 

1055
00:50:15,530 --> 00:50:19,010
storm lands to rally his forces 
and they had to fight a battle 

1056
00:50:19,610 --> 00:50:24,130
to to unlock Gulltown for the 
rebellion side which they of 

1057
00:50:24,130 --> 00:50:27,570
course did. 
And Robert established himself 

1058
00:50:27,770 --> 00:50:30,930
as a warrior that people would 
want to follow and and that 

1059
00:50:30,930 --> 00:50:34,790
only, in a way, Grafton's. 
Obstinance made things worse on 

1060
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:37,270
his own side because it allowed 
Robert to prove how great he 

1061
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:39,150
when people was like, wow, 
Robert, it's amazing. 

1062
00:50:39,150 --> 00:50:41,150
Let's rally more people to his 
side, yeah? 

1063
00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:42,470
Didn't he? 
Shouldn't. 

1064
00:50:42,590 --> 00:50:44,910
Didn't want him to prove 
himself, but anyway, how bloody 

1065
00:50:44,910 --> 00:50:45,830
was that battle? 
How it? 

1066
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:46,990
Was pretty bad. 
Bad. 

1067
00:50:46,990 --> 00:50:47,790
Yeah. 
Yeah, it was bad. 

1068
00:50:47,790 --> 00:50:49,910
It was bad. 
Apparently, Like Ned's memory of

1069
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:52,670
it, if I recall correctly, was. 
Yeah, Robert was one of the 

1070
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:55,790
first men over the walls and Oh 
no, it's Lord Godrick Borel who 

1071
00:50:55,790 --> 00:50:58,350
who describes it to Davos. 
So now that I think of more 

1072
00:50:58,350 --> 00:50:59,470
about it, Yeah, it was. 
It was. 

1073
00:51:00,250 --> 00:51:03,570
It was a close thing, I think. 
Maybe, maybe not close in terms 

1074
00:51:03,570 --> 00:51:08,650
of the rebels almost lost, but 
it was a lot of close combat, a 

1075
00:51:08,650 --> 00:51:10,530
lot of hand to hand, a lot of 
fighting on the walls. 

1076
00:51:10,530 --> 00:51:13,730
I guess I wondered how much it 
was just superficially he needed

1077
00:51:13,730 --> 00:51:16,970
to go against Robert but wasn't 
really trying that hard to stop 

1078
00:51:16,970 --> 00:51:17,610
him. 
But. 

1079
00:51:17,770 --> 00:51:18,890
Might have to look into that a 
little more. 

1080
00:51:18,890 --> 00:51:21,010
Even if that was the case, all 
the men in the battle might not 

1081
00:51:21,010 --> 00:51:22,690
realize that so. 
That's true, yeah. 

1082
00:51:23,980 --> 00:51:27,180
So those 12 Provosi worships, 
whatever they must have had at 

1083
00:51:27,180 --> 00:51:29,020
least enough time to to sail 
over. 

1084
00:51:29,380 --> 00:51:32,380
Having given more time, Bravos 
might have sent a larger 

1085
00:51:32,380 --> 00:51:35,220
detachment. 
Maybe if if more scouting had 

1086
00:51:35,220 --> 00:51:36,620
been done. 
But apparently there just wasn't

1087
00:51:36,620 --> 00:51:39,260
in a lot of time. 
Now as well as when we're 

1088
00:51:39,260 --> 00:51:42,100
thinking about the Valorians. 
You might be thinking of again 

1089
00:51:42,100 --> 00:51:45,620
of the Sea Snake and this giant 
fleet that he had, but that's 

1090
00:51:45,620 --> 00:51:49,100
the largest of Valorian fleet 
ever was, so don't picture that.

1091
00:51:49,420 --> 00:51:52,540
Picture that, but way smaller, 
not small. 

1092
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:54,840
But way smaller. 
They were formidable in this 

1093
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,840
era, but not at their at their 
peak, which they were at the 

1094
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,280
dance era. 
So this would be a substantial 

1095
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,680
force, but it wouldn't be the 
kind that would overwhelm the 

1096
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,920
errands, even though they have a
hastily assembled fleet. 

1097
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,600
When you hear a hastily 
assembled fleet, do you assume 

1098
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,440
conscriptions that they would 
take some merchant vessels and 

1099
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:14,640
say, hey, you need to fight for 
us? 

1100
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,620
I mean. 
Cuz that often is the case in 

1101
00:52:17,620 --> 00:52:20,780
medieval style combat like local
ships or conscripted. 

1102
00:52:20,780 --> 00:52:23,860
We've seen a lot of even Jon 
Snow conscripts merchant ships 

1103
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:27,780
to send to hard home, you know, 
So I hadn't thought about it, 

1104
00:52:27,780 --> 00:52:30,380
honestly. 
I thought of just smaller, 

1105
00:52:30,380 --> 00:52:31,620
weaker ships. 
That's what I thought. 

1106
00:52:31,620 --> 00:52:33,140
In my mind. 
I didn't consider that you might

1107
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:34,870
just. 
Where do those smaller, weaker 

1108
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:37,150
ships come from? 
Well, I thought that they would 

1109
00:52:37,590 --> 00:52:39,790
build them. 
OK, but but maybe that's even 

1110
00:52:39,790 --> 00:52:41,430
not usually they have to ship 
that hasty. 

1111
00:52:41,590 --> 00:52:44,830
Yeah, so probably is just 
whatever ships you can get, just

1112
00:52:44,830 --> 00:52:48,390
local fishermen, probably in the
same way that you just come into

1113
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:51,110
town and someone's working on a 
farm you like, You're in the 

1114
00:52:51,110 --> 00:52:55,070
army now, you know, like, yeah, 
bring your rake or whatever. 

1115
00:52:55,070 --> 00:52:57,670
They might just get the 
fishermen and say you're in the 

1116
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:59,550
Navy. 
Now bring your ship and you just

1117
00:52:59,550 --> 00:53:01,150
don't have a choice. 
You're not really quit for it, 

1118
00:53:01,150 --> 00:53:08,140
but yeah, yeah, but probably 
hastily means what's the word 

1119
00:53:08,140 --> 00:53:11,340
I'm looking for more likely to 
die more, more destruction 

1120
00:53:11,340 --> 00:53:14,660
involved, more, more damage to 
the village that you're coming 

1121
00:53:14,660 --> 00:53:18,660
from, more, etcetera, etcetera. 
Yeah, it's interesting how this 

1122
00:53:18,660 --> 00:53:20,460
battle plays out. 
The navies are going to come 

1123
00:53:20,460 --> 00:53:23,900
together and have their 
engagement and then later 

1124
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:27,700
Visenna is going to come in. 
You almost wonder why it didn't 

1125
00:53:27,700 --> 00:53:28,860
start that. 
Why doesn't this end? 

1126
00:53:28,860 --> 00:53:31,900
You just go out in front and 
just torch the entire Erin 

1127
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:34,340
fleet, or at least enough of it 
to make the rest give up. 

1128
00:53:34,340 --> 00:53:37,740
But that's not what happened. 
Now. 

1129
00:53:38,220 --> 00:53:40,980
Demonstrating the power of the 
Dragons was part of the overall 

1130
00:53:40,980 --> 00:53:42,540
plan in the Congress. 
And remember, this is one of the

1131
00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:44,300
first battles, so maybe they're 
just like Okay. 

1132
00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:46,180
We want to make sure everyone 
knows we're going to make our 

1133
00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:49,140
statement here, like we're going
to eventually do at Heron Hall 

1134
00:53:49,380 --> 00:53:52,860
and some of these other places. 
Quite possibly eventually 

1135
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:55,310
they're a little more. 
They hold back a little more and

1136
00:53:55,310 --> 00:53:57,270
only blow things up when they 
really have to. 

1137
00:53:57,390 --> 00:53:59,910
So maybe that's the strategy, 
They're just blow up as many 

1138
00:53:59,910 --> 00:54:02,550
things as possible early on to 
not have to blow up things 

1139
00:54:02,550 --> 00:54:06,350
later. 
But they also generally wanted 

1140
00:54:06,350 --> 00:54:08,390
to preserve the people they were
conquering. 

1141
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:12,830
So you know, maybe they if you 
just burn a few ships, the rest 

1142
00:54:12,830 --> 00:54:15,790
capitulate. 
You get to keep all the ships as

1143
00:54:15,790 --> 00:54:18,710
it was. 
Very little is going to be left 

1144
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:20,150
after this battle on either 
side. 

1145
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:23,310
Maybe they didn't realize how 
destructive it would be, and 

1146
00:54:23,310 --> 00:54:25,950
that's possible. 
Maybe it's not the example they 

1147
00:54:25,950 --> 00:54:28,190
want to set, cuz they're not 
facing navies from the other 

1148
00:54:28,190 --> 00:54:30,430
sides, right? 
The only other naval force is 

1149
00:54:30,430 --> 00:54:33,030
the Ironborn, which they're 
making a demonstration through 

1150
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:33,910
Heron Hall. 
So. 

1151
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:38,030
Yeah, it's the other possibility
is there's just fog and they 

1152
00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:39,750
couldn't like the Dragon 
wouldn't be able to see and the 

1153
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:41,790
ships are advancing and they 
just once they get close to each

1154
00:54:41,830 --> 00:54:43,110
other then they can start 
fighting. 

1155
00:54:43,110 --> 00:54:46,790
And yeah, I can kind of see they
wanted to prove the power of 

1156
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:48,230
their Navy. 
They wanted to make a statement.

1157
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,640
And maybe it was even Lord 
Valarian himself, I was going to

1158
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,320
say. 
Maybe they wanted to give some 

1159
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,280
credit to the other people in 
the army. 

1160
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,160
To show the strength of the 
baby, Yeah, that's a good point.

1161
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,280
Because they don't want to just 
be all about the Dragons. 

1162
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:01,680
I mean, that might be 
sufficient. 

1163
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,440
But showing the power of their 
allies, even aside from showing 

1164
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,320
the power or whatever, like they
want to actual give actual, I 

1165
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,720
can't think of the word of my 
autonomy is not quite the word 

1166
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:13,470
we're, but they want the people 
under them to feel like they 

1167
00:55:13,470 --> 00:55:15,030
matter. 
Yeah, that makes sense. 

1168
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:17,350
And in this sense, it might be, 
it might glory might be the 

1169
00:55:17,350 --> 00:55:18,670
wrong word, but that might be 
the right word. 

1170
00:55:18,670 --> 00:55:19,470
Yeah. 
Yeah, glory. 

1171
00:55:19,470 --> 00:55:21,870
Especially in their realm. 
Like the Yeah, this is the naval

1172
00:55:21,870 --> 00:55:23,110
battle. 
You're the naval guys. 

1173
00:55:23,110 --> 00:55:24,510
Okay. 
You know, do your thing. 

1174
00:55:24,510 --> 00:55:26,030
You. 
Don't just come in here, come in

1175
00:55:26,030 --> 00:55:27,590
here and torch all the ships. 
And then what? 

1176
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:28,470
What do I do? 
You know? 

1177
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:32,390
So it's kind of odd to think I 
want to fight, but that is a 

1178
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:36,030
correct Westerosi mindset to to 
be considering, considering 

1179
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:38,150
given how often that is the 
case. 

1180
00:55:39,150 --> 00:55:43,060
And another one. 
Nina brings up the a common 

1181
00:55:43,060 --> 00:55:44,940
refrain that we should always be
considering. 

1182
00:55:45,100 --> 00:55:48,660
Maybe they're just worried about
maybe those ships had some 

1183
00:55:48,660 --> 00:55:51,500
scorpions on them, or some 
actual anti dragon weaponry. 

1184
00:55:51,500 --> 00:55:55,020
That does exist, even though 
there's very little of it in 

1185
00:55:55,020 --> 00:55:55,980
Westeros. 
At this point. 

1186
00:55:56,180 --> 00:55:58,220
Targets don't know that. 
They don't know that some 

1187
00:55:58,220 --> 00:56:00,380
scorpions weren't thrown 
together, and then they're being

1188
00:56:00,380 --> 00:56:02,460
extra cautious. 
You really, really, really don't

1189
00:56:02,460 --> 00:56:04,460
want to lose a dragon. 
Really, really, really don't 

1190
00:56:04,460 --> 00:56:06,580
want to lose one. 
As long as they have them, their

1191
00:56:06,580 --> 00:56:10,420
power is intact, as we saw much 
later once the Dragons are gone.

1192
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,080
Rebellions become way more 
common, and eventually the 

1193
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,000
Targaryen power fails. 
And if the Aaron's have teamed 

1194
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,400
with the Bravosi, they may have 
or care more about dragging 

1195
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,360
defenses. 
They may have given him some 

1196
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,480
scorpions, say, all right, 
you're going to need this. 

1197
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,080
And if we're right at all about 
Aegon having done some 

1198
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,520
intelligence work, you might 
have been aware of that, so. 

1199
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,760
Yeah, that's a really good point
because the Bravosi would have 

1200
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,970
more knowledge and more. 
Care and more thought put into 

1201
00:56:40,370 --> 00:56:41,730
the Dragons and dealing with 
them. 

1202
00:56:41,730 --> 00:56:43,930
So yes, that's a very, very good
point. 

1203
00:56:44,410 --> 00:56:48,730
That's what I'm here for. 
Well, regardless of what drove 

1204
00:56:48,730 --> 00:56:52,130
the plan, regardless of why they
did it the way they did, it did 

1205
00:56:52,130 --> 00:56:55,570
not work out. 
The the timeline isn't exactly 

1206
00:56:55,570 --> 00:56:58,170
clear like I said, but it seems 
like it happened really quickly.

1207
00:56:58,170 --> 00:57:02,610
They sent their ships, the ships
engaged the air in fleet, and 

1208
00:57:02,770 --> 00:57:07,170
yeah, it was apparently a close 
battle. 

1209
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:10,870
Maybe that creates yet another 
parallel with the last storm. 

1210
00:57:10,870 --> 00:57:13,670
Because the battle of the last 
storm was very close, there was 

1211
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:16,430
likely a lot of hand to hand 
combat ships getting very close 

1212
00:57:16,430 --> 00:57:18,310
to each other, men boarding 
other ships. 

1213
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:21,430
A lot of ships were captured, 
which is usually how that's 

1214
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:23,070
done. 
You know in in a naval 

1215
00:57:23,150 --> 00:57:27,110
engagement is 1 ship boards the 
other and they take it over and 

1216
00:57:27,110 --> 00:57:30,950
then it becomes their ship and 
you just change what flag is 

1217
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:32,670
flying from it to indicate it's 
changed. 

1218
00:57:32,670 --> 00:57:36,110
Teams, it's not. 
It's not like a person in the 

1219
00:57:36,110 --> 00:57:38,470
battle, like I've changed sides.
Well, how do I indicate that? 

1220
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:41,230
You know, like it's hard enough 
to tell whose side people are on

1221
00:57:41,230 --> 00:57:43,790
sometimes without, without. 
They're not wearing uniforms or 

1222
00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:46,430
whatever, but even when they're 
wearing uniforms. 

1223
00:57:46,990 --> 00:57:48,590
Yeah, it's true. 
You get all muddy and covered 

1224
00:57:48,590 --> 00:57:51,470
and yeah, and from a distance 
it's hard to see and I don't 

1225
00:57:51,470 --> 00:57:54,270
know. 
Yeah, so just a picture it as 

1226
00:57:54,270 --> 00:57:55,750
best as you can. 
Ships. 

1227
00:57:56,330 --> 00:58:00,050
Coming together, crashing 
together, sometimes sinking 

1228
00:58:00,050 --> 00:58:02,930
people in the waves. 
Being pulled out and rescued. 

1229
00:58:03,170 --> 00:58:07,170
Crossbows and bows shot from up 
close and far away. 

1230
00:58:07,370 --> 00:58:10,250
Javelins thrown. 
Torches, probably hurled from 

1231
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:14,170
one to the other. 
Maybe other fire tools like to 

1232
00:58:14,170 --> 00:58:16,530
set the other ships on fire 
besides the the dragon, which is

1233
00:58:16,530 --> 00:58:18,250
going to enter the battle in a 
minute here. 

1234
00:58:18,530 --> 00:58:22,210
Lots of chaos and just cats and 
dogs living together. 

1235
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:25,610
Mass hysteria, yes. 
And by the way, why were the 

1236
00:58:25,610 --> 00:58:27,930
cats and dogs on the ships in 
the 1st place? 

1237
00:58:27,930 --> 00:58:30,890
They do not help at all in this 
part of the mass hysteria. 

1238
00:58:30,930 --> 00:58:33,890
Yeah, that's right. 
Just evidence of things falling 

1239
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:36,210
apart is the inclusion of cats 
and dogs on the ships. 

1240
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:40,650
So like I said, yeah, the last 
Storm battle they almost lost. 

1241
00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:45,490
Like it came down to Moraxis 
saving the day in a sense. 

1242
00:58:46,410 --> 00:58:50,780
But here they actually did lose.
The Navy lost. 

1243
00:58:50,820 --> 00:58:52,980
Yeah. 
Lose it. 

1244
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:56,700
It's kind of up for debate 
whether they lost. 

1245
00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:59,500
Lost. 
I would argue that they No one 

1246
00:58:59,500 --> 00:58:59,940
won. 
It was. 

1247
00:58:59,940 --> 00:59:01,060
Maybe That's what I was going to
say. 

1248
00:59:01,060 --> 00:59:02,620
They they maybe they didn't 
lost. 

1249
00:59:02,620 --> 00:59:04,380
They still win. 
They maybe they didn't win. 

1250
00:59:04,380 --> 00:59:06,300
But the Aaron's didn't really 
lose either. 

1251
00:59:06,340 --> 00:59:07,220
Right. 
So it was, yeah. 

1252
00:59:07,340 --> 00:59:08,780
So here's what actually I mean. 
Let's summarize. 

1253
00:59:08,780 --> 00:59:09,980
Everyone lost. 
Yeah, everyone. 

1254
00:59:09,980 --> 00:59:12,260
Yeah, everyone lost 1/3 of the 
ships, Targaryen ships were 

1255
00:59:12,260 --> 00:59:14,500
lost. 
Another third, almost a third 

1256
00:59:14,500 --> 00:59:17,220
was captured. 
The other, roughly a third, got 

1257
00:59:17,220 --> 00:59:19,690
away. 
And Lord Damon was among the 

1258
00:59:19,690 --> 00:59:23,090
dead, and we don't know if if 
his ship sank or was captured, 

1259
00:59:23,530 --> 00:59:27,090
which adds to the interest of 
what happened with his son 

1260
00:59:27,090 --> 00:59:29,770
Corley's if he was there. 
Because if he was, if his ship 

1261
00:59:29,770 --> 00:59:32,770
sank, then that argues for him 
not being on that ship. 

1262
00:59:33,970 --> 00:59:36,170
And so the Targaryens do what 
they do with dragonflame, 

1263
00:59:36,370 --> 00:59:37,250
Visanya said. 
Okay. 

1264
00:59:37,250 --> 00:59:43,450
Well, we lost, reset and burned 
the whole fleet, which probably 

1265
00:59:43,450 --> 00:59:46,650
includes the ships they just 
captured and those conscripted 

1266
00:59:47,210 --> 00:59:49,840
ships. 
And even her own men that were 

1267
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,680
captured. 
So that's pretty rough. 

1268
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,600
That's pretty brutal. 
That's like, wow, nasty. 

1269
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,960
So a lot of people that didn't 
want to be there, a lot of 

1270
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,360
people that had been her allies 
a minute before. 

1271
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:05,560
Think a little bit about that 
dude who gets stepped on and my 

1272
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:06,280
crack. 
Dragon. 

1273
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,850
Except that. 
Damon probably didn't even know 

1274
01:00:08,850 --> 01:00:11,930
that guy was there. 
Yeah, he probably would have 

1275
01:00:11,930 --> 01:00:13,330
done it anyway. 
He might have done it anyway, 

1276
01:00:13,410 --> 01:00:14,810
though. 
That might have been easy, just 

1277
01:00:14,810 --> 01:00:17,210
like land 10 feet over. 
He might not have done it 

1278
01:00:17,210 --> 01:00:18,810
anyway, but. 
But yeah, he could. 

1279
01:00:18,810 --> 01:00:20,010
Yeah, Like, why would he 
bothers? 

1280
01:00:20,130 --> 01:00:21,690
He could easily avoid it. 
Yeah, but. 

1281
01:00:21,810 --> 01:00:23,650
He didn't know he was there the 
Dragons in control. 

1282
01:00:23,650 --> 01:00:26,090
He's like not he can't give a 
precisely it's not like a 

1283
01:00:26,090 --> 01:00:28,730
helicopter where he can kind of 
control exactly where it lands 

1284
01:00:28,730 --> 01:00:34,410
you know so so that's pretty 
ruthless pretty brutal and. 

1285
01:00:35,590 --> 01:00:39,190
But not atypical of Vesenia. 
Vesenia is pretty brutal, pretty

1286
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:41,310
ruthless and part of what makes 
her interesting. 

1287
01:00:41,310 --> 01:00:44,030
So yeah, I think we'd call this 
a stalemate, but she made it a 

1288
01:00:44,030 --> 01:00:45,390
stalemate. 
It had been a loss. 

1289
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:51,550
And just with one, you know, 
afternoon on, Veigar just turned

1290
01:00:51,550 --> 01:00:54,270
that into an turned that thing 
into an even Steven. 

1291
01:00:55,030 --> 01:00:57,150
And it's a pretty big loss 
though for them. 

1292
01:00:57,150 --> 01:00:59,030
I mean, it's a pretty good loss 
on both sides, like losing your 

1293
01:00:59,030 --> 01:01:02,300
Navy or most of your Navy. 
It if they wanted to make a 

1294
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:04,540
statement about the power of 
their Navy, well, that backfire,

1295
01:01:04,540 --> 01:01:05,620
didn't it? 
Yeah. 

1296
01:01:05,860 --> 01:01:08,420
And and so but they they still 
showed the power of the Dragon 

1297
01:01:08,420 --> 01:01:09,820
though. 
Yeah they showed the power of 

1298
01:01:09,820 --> 01:01:12,300
the Dragon and it backfires 
showing the power of the Navy. 

1299
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:16,420
But it's even worse because they
don't have this Navy to capture 

1300
01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:17,220
either. 
Right there. 

1301
01:01:17,340 --> 01:01:19,220
They're down there. 
Navy and the Navy they thought 

1302
01:01:19,220 --> 01:01:20,740
they were going to get and so 
it's back. 

1303
01:01:20,940 --> 01:01:25,860
I I was wondering what WWAD what
would Aegon do? 

1304
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,400
Would he have also burned that 
down? 

1305
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,960
Like he may have recognized this
what we have to do but I wonder 

1306
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:36,040
if you would have done and burnt
some outside ships or put more 

1307
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,560
care into burning the right 
ships or waited till a different

1308
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:40,920
moment when he could have a 
second drag. 

1309
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,840
I I don't I don't even know, but
it seems like an awful result I.

1310
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,400
I agree with you there, and I 
want to throw this out there as 

1311
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,240
something to consider for the 
rest of the episode, which is 

1312
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,600
Vicentia's personality in light 
of what happens and in light of.

1313
01:01:57,190 --> 01:02:01,230
The decision she makes versus 
what she may have discussed with

1314
01:02:01,230 --> 01:02:04,470
her brother and sister as to the
best way to handle some of these

1315
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:08,350
scenarios. 
Because there is going to be a 

1316
01:02:08,350 --> 01:02:12,430
time here shortly where she does
go to confer with Agon and 

1317
01:02:12,430 --> 01:02:18,470
Rainey's and then return. 
And her methods are a lot 

1318
01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:21,350
gentler, and I wonder if that 
was something they discussed, 

1319
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:25,510
something Agon ordered her to 
do, or strongly implied needed 

1320
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:28,410
to be done. 
Or if left of her own devices, 

1321
01:02:28,410 --> 01:02:32,210
she might have burned the eerie 
or something like Karen Holger's

1322
01:02:32,210 --> 01:02:34,010
like, well, may as let's do the 
same thing here. 

1323
01:02:34,330 --> 01:02:37,970
But when she comes back, yeah, 
she's a little, she's a little 

1324
01:02:37,970 --> 01:02:41,490
more diplomacy, she's a little 
more subtle, uses more of the 

1325
01:02:41,850 --> 01:02:44,450
carrot than the stick while the 
stick is still there, you know. 

1326
01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:47,410
So I really wonder. 
It's very interesting if the 

1327
01:02:47,410 --> 01:02:51,440
Conquest ever hits TV. 
Or as more has written about it,

1328
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,040
or whatever. 
If we ever get more on this, the

1329
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,720
character development happens. 
If we see that, I would guess 

1330
01:02:55,720 --> 01:03:01,120
that that's gonna be a part of 
it, like how to manage their 

1331
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,160
personalities and what they want
to do versus what is actually 

1332
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,720
the best strategy for taking the
Kingdom. 

1333
01:03:08,020 --> 01:03:09,780
I can't see a lot of ways that 
might have gone right. 

1334
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:12,820
I can imagine in the 1st place 
they talked about what if we 

1335
01:03:12,820 --> 01:03:15,460
lose this battle and I want to 
believe that they wouldn't have 

1336
01:03:15,460 --> 01:03:17,140
been so Erica, like that won't 
happen. 

1337
01:03:17,140 --> 01:03:19,220
Don't worry about it. 
I feel like they would have gone

1338
01:03:19,220 --> 01:03:22,750
deep enough to have a backup 
plan or follow up, you know, And

1339
01:03:22,750 --> 01:03:25,750
and if they did, I can imagine 
Egon saying, you know, just come

1340
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:28,150
back here. 
But maybe he said burn it all. 

1341
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:30,510
Like maybe she was calmer in the
1st place. 

1342
01:03:30,790 --> 01:03:34,350
Maybe he ordered to burn it all.
And so she did and came back and

1343
01:03:34,350 --> 01:03:37,670
Egon's like, I guess we didn't 
work yet and she's like now I'm 

1344
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:39,430
not going to burn the Erie like 
you said. 

1345
01:03:39,470 --> 01:03:42,390
I think I can do it my way. 
I'm trying to give her benefit 

1346
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:43,830
of the doubt. 
It could be the other way for 

1347
01:03:43,830 --> 01:03:46,870
sure, but. 
And this is again we have to 

1348
01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:49,430
reiterate that this was the 
first major battle, so the 

1349
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:54,750
Targaryens getting off in their.
This long conquest and it starts

1350
01:03:54,750 --> 01:03:56,870
off with a set back and it's 
like, well, this is the 

1351
01:03:56,870 --> 01:03:57,950
opposite. 
We were trying to make a 

1352
01:03:57,950 --> 01:04:01,470
statement trying to prove how 
strong we are and just so that 

1353
01:04:01,470 --> 01:04:03,910
might be why she just like had 
to torch that just to say from 

1354
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:05,150
her perspective like, well, we 
can't. 

1355
01:04:05,150 --> 01:04:07,190
This can't, we can't have that 
spreading. 

1356
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:10,870
So it has to look. 
A draw is not great, but at 

1357
01:04:10,870 --> 01:04:14,190
least it demonstrates how 
powerful they are is, and it's 

1358
01:04:14,190 --> 01:04:16,590
the it's better than loot. 
An outright loss. 

1359
01:04:16,790 --> 01:04:19,940
They could maybe present her 
characters being is that being 

1360
01:04:19,940 --> 01:04:22,940
like a tough decision She did 
sat with guilt for the rest of 

1361
01:04:22,940 --> 01:04:24,460
life. 
Or maybe she's just a more of a 

1362
01:04:24,620 --> 01:04:26,820
wow car baby. 
Yeah, you know, she's. 

1363
01:04:27,580 --> 01:04:29,740
Sorry, soldiers that were just 
on my side a minute ago. 

1364
01:04:29,740 --> 01:04:32,740
I'm going to have to burn y'all 
now just because politics call 

1365
01:04:32,740 --> 01:04:34,980
for it, you know? 
Like, I say that jokingly, but I

1366
01:04:35,660 --> 01:04:39,200
and, you know, I'm making a 
sunny reference, which they put 

1367
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,320
stuff in a humorous light. 
But maybe I could see the show, 

1368
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,560
maybe putting it in like a 
darker light, like maybe she 

1369
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,360
struggles with bipolar disorder 
or something. 

1370
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,520
Her character is this tragic, 
you know, interesting struggle 

1371
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,080
through her life of how to 
manage her emotions and when she

1372
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,960
suddenly thrust into battles 
with the power of a dragon, 

1373
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,560
like, that's very interesting, 
yeah. 

1374
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:58,760
Well, I consider Meg or is her 
son too. 

1375
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,280
So a lot of what we look at is 
like well maybe Meg or was just 

1376
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,840
like this but he she's heard his
advisor for a lot of his life 

1377
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,840
and he he notably. 
Struggles when she dies, like 

1378
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,400
after she's gone. 
His reign notably gets sloppier 

1379
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:18,440
advisor and also genetic source 
to whatever agreemental 

1380
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,360
disorders might travel through 
heredity. 

1381
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,240
It could be a factor, 
absolutely. 

1382
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:28,300
I had one other thought. 
If I wonder how this might have 

1383
01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:30,060
affected Agon when it came to 
Heron Hall. 

1384
01:05:30,260 --> 01:05:32,020
I wonder if he's a little more 
judicious. 

1385
01:05:32,460 --> 01:05:35,780
We talked a lot about the idea 
of how he didn't totally ruin 

1386
01:05:35,860 --> 01:05:38,300
Heron Hall. 
Yeah, maybe he's like, all 

1387
01:05:38,300 --> 01:05:39,980
right, we'd love to ruin that 
fleet. 

1388
01:05:39,980 --> 01:05:43,140
Yeah, maybe we make the point 
here at this castle, but don't 

1389
01:05:43,140 --> 01:05:45,180
totally destroy. 
I wonder if he became more 

1390
01:05:45,180 --> 01:05:47,460
reserved himself after this 
fleet was destroyed. 

1391
01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:51,750
So that effectively. 
Stalled the campaign. 

1392
01:05:51,790 --> 01:05:55,230
The Targaryens not only weren't 
particularly willing to try to 

1393
01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:58,230
get an army into the Veil 
through the mountains, they 

1394
01:05:58,870 --> 01:06:00,270
didn't really have one at this 
point either. 

1395
01:06:00,270 --> 01:06:01,350
That it was, it was sent 
elsewhere. 

1396
01:06:01,350 --> 01:06:03,590
They had it. 
It was just used elsewhere and 

1397
01:06:03,590 --> 01:06:05,630
they didn't have much of 1. 
It might run hard to get that 

1398
01:06:05,630 --> 01:06:07,270
army through. 
Yeah exactly. 

1399
01:06:07,270 --> 01:06:11,750
So and without a fleet, well, 
the only option would be to 

1400
01:06:11,790 --> 01:06:14,710
bring in the Dragons to just 
burn things that that's really 

1401
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:18,070
their only move at this point. 
So then unwilling to do that, 

1402
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:20,250
they just. 
They didn't. 

1403
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:23,930
They did other stuff also seeing
that the seeing the destruction 

1404
01:06:23,930 --> 01:06:26,410
of the air in fleet and that 
they were in a war with House 

1405
01:06:26,410 --> 01:06:30,570
Targaryen, which clearly was 
going to be a big deal, 

1406
01:06:30,690 --> 01:06:33,090
especially how it was unfolding 
elsewhere. 

1407
01:06:33,490 --> 01:06:37,850
The sister men, the people of 
the Three Sisters, those islands

1408
01:06:37,850 --> 01:06:42,130
in the Bight, north of the Vale 
and South of the North Rosen, 

1409
01:06:42,130 --> 01:06:45,410
revolt and crowned Marla 
Sunderland as their new queen. 

1410
01:06:45,950 --> 01:06:49,870
They, I guess, figured it would 
be quite a while before the 

1411
01:06:49,870 --> 01:06:51,390
errands could feel the Navy 
again. 

1412
01:06:51,390 --> 01:06:54,550
It takes a while to build a 
fleet, and since the Dragons 

1413
01:06:54,550 --> 01:06:57,630
were such an obvious presence by
this point, I kind of wonder, 

1414
01:06:57,630 --> 01:07:01,470
did did they hope to be 
considered separate from the 

1415
01:07:01,470 --> 01:07:06,510
Veil under the Iron Throne? 
No, actually they expected true 

1416
01:07:06,510 --> 01:07:10,350
independence they were fighting 
for to be completely independent

1417
01:07:10,350 --> 01:07:14,110
nation of the three Sisters, 
even within Westeros, even under

1418
01:07:14,110 --> 01:07:17,590
this new. 
Got a realm that's being built 

1419
01:07:17,590 --> 01:07:19,990
by the tar gears like we're 
gonna make unite everyone into 

1420
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:22,310
one realm like actually we're 
gonna be independent us our 

1421
01:07:22,310 --> 01:07:26,110
little three islands like. 
So this was bold. 

1422
01:07:26,510 --> 01:07:29,710
I wanna say I don't wanna go 
quite so far as to call it dumb 

1423
01:07:29,710 --> 01:07:31,110
cuz I don't know everything that
was going on. 

1424
01:07:31,110 --> 01:07:33,150
You know, there might be some 
other factors here, but it 

1425
01:07:33,150 --> 01:07:36,540
seems. 
Extremely ambitious and hard to 

1426
01:07:36,540 --> 01:07:38,260
pull off. 
I mean, maybe. 

1427
01:07:38,820 --> 01:07:40,300
Not yeah. 
Yeah. 

1428
01:07:40,340 --> 01:07:43,620
Dumb is too far because it may 
have even been smart. 

1429
01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:45,980
They might have had like an 
angle that we're not worth the 

1430
01:07:45,980 --> 01:07:49,580
fight or they won't really care,
or things like that, I can see. 

1431
01:07:49,980 --> 01:07:51,940
So but it but it turns out they 
not only do they us 

1432
01:07:51,980 --> 01:07:56,620
underestimate the Dragons, but 
the Veil and the North, that's 

1433
01:07:56,860 --> 01:07:59,900
probably what they didn't see. 
Eventually it's going to the 

1434
01:07:59,900 --> 01:08:02,990
North is going to get involved. 
But at this time, the North is 

1435
01:08:02,990 --> 01:08:05,550
just another Kingdom that Agon 
has claimed that has yet to 

1436
01:08:05,550 --> 01:08:08,070
submit. 
So at the beginning of 

1437
01:08:08,070 --> 01:08:10,950
everything they it, it seems to 
me that they took a different 

1438
01:08:10,950 --> 01:08:12,190
view of how this was going to 
go. 

1439
01:08:12,670 --> 01:08:14,950
They they maybe thought that W 
Rose was going to tear itself 

1440
01:08:14,950 --> 01:08:17,710
apart. 
With this, this conquest and a 

1441
01:08:17,710 --> 01:08:21,270
lot of these realms, a lot of 
what just happened would happen 

1442
01:08:21,270 --> 01:08:23,950
elsewhere, which is both sides 
annihilating each other. 

1443
01:08:23,950 --> 01:08:25,990
They saw the two navies destroy 
each other and they have thought

1444
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:27,630
that would happen more and more 
and more. 

1445
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:30,840
And with, if that's going to 
keep happening, then their 

1446
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,800
little three islands will get 
left alone. 

1447
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:34,720
They can be independent. 
Gives them time to build up some

1448
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:36,200
strength. 
And by the time I think about it

1449
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:40,880
for them being islands, you need
a Navy and an army to come get 

1450
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:41,520
them. 
Yeah. 

1451
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,359
And so right now the navies are 
fighting the Dragons. 

1452
01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:48,200
Like, who's going to go get us? 
And there and it been a long 

1453
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:51,520
time since someone had brought 
armies there, and that it was 

1454
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:53,479
the North and the Veil had both 
done that. 

1455
01:08:54,380 --> 01:08:56,340
And that was so long ago. 
They probably thought, well, now

1456
01:08:56,340 --> 01:08:59,260
we can, you know, now we can 
throw throw the yoke off. 

1457
01:08:59,260 --> 01:09:02,300
Now things have changed. 
You know, we it's kind of like 

1458
01:09:02,300 --> 01:09:05,100
the North throwing off the Iron 
Throne like under Rob getting 

1459
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:07,100
there, all their verb and 
energy. 

1460
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:09,779
Like we can do it, we can do it,
you know, and may not be a good 

1461
01:09:09,779 --> 01:09:11,819
idea, but it seemed like a good 
idea at the time. 

1462
01:09:11,939 --> 01:09:14,700
Also, there's a matter of oh, 
Agon and his two sisters. 

1463
01:09:14,700 --> 01:09:18,380
We're the three sisters. 
We've got one more. 

1464
01:09:18,380 --> 01:09:22,850
We got a whole nother sister. 
Nina writes, yeah, like kind of 

1465
01:09:22,850 --> 01:09:24,170
like uses. 
Maybe not as foolish as it 

1466
01:09:24,170 --> 01:09:26,450
seems. 
Like Bailon Greyjoy's rebellion 

1467
01:09:26,450 --> 01:09:32,370
against Robert was a lot Dumber 
in her mind because he was 

1468
01:09:32,370 --> 01:09:35,970
gambling on the new realm, not 
supporting Robert, which was 

1469
01:09:35,970 --> 01:09:38,010
silly. 
They had clearly supported him 

1470
01:09:38,529 --> 01:09:40,810
during the rebellion, right? 
Like during the rellion against 

1471
01:09:40,810 --> 01:09:43,290
Aries, Like they rose against 
the Targaryens and followed that

1472
01:09:43,290 --> 01:09:45,970
guy like happily. 
Like he had all this charisma 

1473
01:09:45,970 --> 01:09:48,510
and they were like, so. 
What was he thinking? 

1474
01:09:48,510 --> 01:09:49,990
That they that charisma was just
gone. 

1475
01:09:50,029 --> 01:09:52,390
You know. 
Not just that like what happens 

1476
01:09:52,390 --> 01:09:57,230
if he becomes independent of the
of of robber or the 17 is then 

1477
01:09:57,230 --> 01:10:00,670
he starts attacking casually 
rock attacking the West. 

1478
01:10:01,070 --> 01:10:03,190
Well, they're going to attack 
that, like, so the West is like,

1479
01:10:03,190 --> 01:10:06,710
well, we're definitely kind of 
stay like like getting free. 

1480
01:10:06,710 --> 01:10:09,350
Even if he gets free of them, 
it's still just means a battle 

1481
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:12,030
somewhere else for someone else.
And that person still wants to, 

1482
01:10:12,030 --> 01:10:15,510
you know, even if even if like 
the dominoes fall and cast of 

1483
01:10:15,510 --> 01:10:18,070
rocks like, all right, fine, the
West is leaving the Seven 

1484
01:10:18,070 --> 01:10:20,870
Kingdoms too. 
And we're coming for you bail 

1485
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:22,430
on, you know, like it's still 
not. 

1486
01:10:22,910 --> 01:10:25,150
Yeah. 
So they may have been hoping for

1487
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:28,990
the end result of the war to 
make Westeros weaker, to maybe 

1488
01:10:28,990 --> 01:10:33,030
even revert to smaller kingdoms 
rather than to become one big 

1489
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:35,070
Kingdom like that. 
Because that that is what 

1490
01:10:35,070 --> 01:10:37,950
started to happen when some of 
these bannermen were called. 

1491
01:10:37,950 --> 01:10:39,110
We saw that happen in Storm 
Lands. 

1492
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:40,590
When Storm lands, call the 
banners. 

1493
01:10:41,220 --> 01:10:43,980
Pirates and Raiders attack when 
the Veil calls its banners. 

1494
01:10:44,220 --> 01:10:46,780
The Three Sisters goes into, you
know, goes into rebellion. 

1495
01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:48,540
So what's gonna happen 
elsewhere? 

1496
01:10:48,540 --> 01:10:50,980
They may have thought more of 
that would happen, like some 

1497
01:10:51,620 --> 01:10:54,100
house in the Reach might revolt 
or some other house. 

1498
01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:56,500
And then what happens in Dorn? 
Or like the Iron Islands? 

1499
01:10:56,660 --> 01:10:57,980
Like you said, there's plenty of
possibilities. 

1500
01:10:57,980 --> 01:11:02,260
The River Lands is not well 
allied to Heron. 

1501
01:11:02,260 --> 01:11:03,420
They follow them because they 
have to. 

1502
01:11:03,420 --> 01:11:05,060
So there's a lot of things that 
could could break free. 

1503
01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:08,020
So they may have just been a 
little too optimistic about what

1504
01:11:08,020 --> 01:11:12,030
they would thought would happen.
And they were at least right 

1505
01:11:12,030 --> 01:11:15,190
about one thing, that they would
not be a high priority, that no 

1506
01:11:15,190 --> 01:11:16,510
one would come for them. 
In the short term. 

1507
01:11:17,430 --> 01:11:25,590
This will not be resolved until 
after Aegon's real quote UN 

1508
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:27,070
quote coronation. 
He's already been crowned by 

1509
01:11:27,070 --> 01:11:29,070
Vissenia at the Blackwater, but 
when he gets crowned at Old 

1510
01:11:29,070 --> 01:11:31,750
Town, when that happens, this 
still will not have been dealt 

1511
01:11:31,750 --> 01:11:33,630
with. 
So we'll be coming back to this 

1512
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:38,070
a little bit later in our 
coverage of the Conquest and of 

1513
01:11:38,150 --> 01:11:41,940
of a Fire and Blood General. 
Presumably they went back to 

1514
01:11:42,020 --> 01:11:45,900
their old ways, which is false 
lights wrecking and piracy. 

1515
01:11:46,020 --> 01:11:48,300
You know that that that thing 
where they put up in lighthouses

1516
01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:50,380
and draw people on the rocks 
aren't safe and. 

1517
01:11:51,220 --> 01:11:53,660
But they might not have, Because
if they wanted to become an 

1518
01:11:53,660 --> 01:11:56,780
independent legitimate state, it
doesn't look like, yes, we're an

1519
01:11:56,780 --> 01:11:59,740
independent pirate state. 
Like that's not legitimate. 

1520
01:12:00,740 --> 01:12:04,220
That's not a good way to keep 
people from coming for you. 

1521
01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:06,940
Like if you're trading and doing
that gives you a chance, but if 

1522
01:12:06,940 --> 01:12:09,340
you're doing this. 
Yeah, people going to come for 

1523
01:12:09,340 --> 01:12:11,300
you, But it's kind of like I was
just saying about Bailon. 

1524
01:12:11,300 --> 01:12:14,420
Like, OK, fine, you're 
independent, but still everyone 

1525
01:12:14,420 --> 01:12:15,980
wants to get you. 
Yeah, you're just. 

1526
01:12:15,980 --> 01:12:18,380
Going to make war on everyone? 
Like, yeah, so. 

1527
01:12:18,740 --> 01:12:21,580
And these these folk are a lot 
less powerful than the Iron 

1528
01:12:21,580 --> 01:12:26,180
Islands. 
So yes, they less interrupt us. 

1529
01:12:26,180 --> 01:12:31,660
Since the campaign was stalled, 
Vicinia moved S to Crack Claw 

1530
01:12:31,660 --> 01:12:33,420
Point. 
Let's take a look at crack claw 

1531
01:12:33,460 --> 01:12:37,260
point on the map here. 
Cracklaw Point is often maybe 

1532
01:12:37,260 --> 01:12:41,820
not overlooked, but looked down 
on by the other regional powers.

1533
01:12:41,820 --> 01:12:47,660
So it's kind of normal for them 
to feel overlooked or left out. 

1534
01:12:47,660 --> 01:12:50,180
Because wars raging all around 
them, different kingdoms are 

1535
01:12:50,180 --> 01:12:52,260
doing different things and and 
they're just sitting there 

1536
01:12:52,620 --> 01:12:54,460
twiddling their thumbs. 
Not that they want to be 

1537
01:12:54,460 --> 01:12:57,260
involved in the war, but they 
don't want to be looked on as a 

1538
01:12:57,260 --> 01:12:59,100
backwater, they don't want to be
looked down on. 

1539
01:12:59,220 --> 01:13:00,780
Pride mean it matters a lot in 
Westeros. 

1540
01:13:00,780 --> 01:13:02,460
I mean, pride matters a lot in 
general, I suppose. 

1541
01:13:02,900 --> 01:13:05,540
But especially in a time like 
this, and the state of affairs 

1542
01:13:05,540 --> 01:13:09,500
have been going on for so long. 
So Vasenia, she comes in and 

1543
01:13:09,740 --> 01:13:12,540
this is what I was talking 
about, Like maybe maybe 

1544
01:13:12,540 --> 01:13:16,060
something changed about her 
approach because she came in and

1545
01:13:16,060 --> 01:13:18,700
she was the diplomat. 
She didn't apparently make any 

1546
01:13:18,700 --> 01:13:22,020
threats, at least not direct 
one, maybe implied ones. 

1547
01:13:22,260 --> 01:13:24,100
I'm sure they were implied 
threats, just just vague are 

1548
01:13:24,100 --> 01:13:25,260
being there as an implied 
threat. 

1549
01:13:25,260 --> 01:13:26,500
You don't even have to say 
anything, right? 

1550
01:13:26,500 --> 01:13:27,860
And she treated them with honor,
though. 

1551
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:30,840
For a conqueror, you know, I 
mean, there's still some I'm 

1552
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,480
better than you vibes when 
you're expecting someone to 

1553
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:36,480
kneel, but it paid huge 
dividends in the long run for 

1554
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:38,840
House Targaryen. 
Now, the crack lot point is not 

1555
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,680
part of the Veil, but it does 
occupy the region immediately 

1556
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,960
between the Veil and the 
burgeoning Crown lands, which it

1557
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,880
did become a part of. 
So, you know, it's like a buffer

1558
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:51,040
state between a major Kingdom 
and the heart of Targaryen rule,

1559
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,440
which is, of course, King's 
Landing. 

1560
01:13:52,670 --> 01:13:54,550
Or would be. 
It's not there yet. 

1561
01:13:54,590 --> 01:13:57,430
Now, crack law is not a valuable
region in terms of wealth or 

1562
01:13:57,830 --> 01:14:01,590
manpower, but they would make 
for a significant enemy if they 

1563
01:14:01,590 --> 01:14:04,750
were an enemy, because it's a 
region like the neck, which is 

1564
01:14:04,750 --> 01:14:06,950
really swampy and hard to 
traverse. 

1565
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:09,590
Locals have a big advantage 
there. 

1566
01:14:09,670 --> 01:14:12,630
It's similar to darn, except 
that to the climate's a lot 

1567
01:14:12,630 --> 01:14:14,910
different. 
But it's in that the terrain 

1568
01:14:14,910 --> 01:14:19,230
itself is part of the enemy, and
it's intrinsic to their defense 

1569
01:14:19,230 --> 01:14:20,790
and how they live. 
And it's deadly. 

1570
01:14:21,190 --> 01:14:23,950
An invader has to deal with a 
lot, so they're not a threat to 

1571
01:14:23,950 --> 01:14:25,430
expand. 
They're not a threat to conquer 

1572
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:27,390
outwards, right? 
They're not going to Oh no, the 

1573
01:14:27,470 --> 01:14:29,870
the Lord of crack La Point is 
making war on there. 

1574
01:14:29,870 --> 01:14:32,350
Like that's just never happened.
They're too small, too 

1575
01:14:32,350 --> 01:14:36,030
unpowerful. 
But anyone passing by like 

1576
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:39,870
merchants, ships, like if that 
region isn't settled, you'll 

1577
01:14:39,870 --> 01:14:42,830
have Raiders, you'll have 
piracy, you'll have bandits. 

1578
01:14:43,780 --> 01:14:46,580
And you don't have to go in 
there to settle that cuz their 

1579
01:14:46,660 --> 01:14:48,980
terrain is terrible. 
You don't wanna have to send a 

1580
01:14:48,980 --> 01:14:52,180
dragon in there. 
So having it as a really loyal 

1581
01:14:52,180 --> 01:14:55,180
base was hugely important for 
them. 

1582
01:14:55,180 --> 01:14:58,180
It's just enabled the Targaryens
to move on and do other stuff 

1583
01:14:58,500 --> 01:15:01,820
and they have new vassals. 
How Celtic are well, they're not

1584
01:15:01,820 --> 01:15:03,980
new vassals for the Targaryens, 
but it's a new location for them

1585
01:15:03,980 --> 01:15:06,910
to be. 
And Clile is just right there 

1586
01:15:06,990 --> 01:15:10,110
off the coast of Craklaw Point. 
So it's also close to one of the

1587
01:15:10,110 --> 01:15:13,070
most important vassals Clile. 
On the map here you can see that

1588
01:15:13,070 --> 01:15:15,190
proximity. 
So however for then you did it, 

1589
01:15:15,190 --> 01:15:18,190
it was very well done. 
She did a great job of it. 

1590
01:15:18,190 --> 01:15:20,390
It was like, apparently 
bloodless so. 

1591
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,200
As we've been questioning 
whether or not she has a light 

1592
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,320
touch, well, she clearly has 
that mode. 

1593
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:26,520
She has the potential. 
For it, yeah. 

1594
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,360
She clearly knows how to operate
like that, whether it's her 

1595
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,800
default mode. 
Whether she wants to do this or 

1596
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,280
not is. 
It is impossible to suss out at 

1597
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:37,000
this time, but she clearly can. 
She's clearly capable. 

1598
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:43,720
Nevertheless, she's brutal 
elsewhere, so it's like you 

1599
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:45,440
said. 
It's hard to tell what kind of 

1600
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:48,790
person she really is. 
So consider this line spoken by 

1601
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:52,830
that paragon of Crack claw 
wisdom and history. 

1602
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:57,910
Nimble Dick Crab Aron sent his 
sisters up to Crack Claw at 

1603
01:15:57,910 --> 01:16:01,070
Vicinia. 
The Lords had heard O'haren's 

1604
01:16:01,070 --> 01:16:03,550
end. 
Being no fools, they laid their 

1605
01:16:03,550 --> 01:16:06,190
swords at her feet. 
The Queen took them as a Roman 

1606
01:16:06,710 --> 01:16:09,750
and said they'd owe no fealty to
Made in Pool, Crab Isle or 

1607
01:16:09,750 --> 01:16:12,540
Duscandale. 
Don't stop them bloody Celtic 

1608
01:16:12,540 --> 01:16:14,700
cars and send them men to 
Eastern Shore to collect his 

1609
01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:17,300
taxes. 
If he sends enough, you come 

1610
01:16:17,300 --> 01:16:19,980
back to him. 
Elsewise we bow only to our 

1611
01:16:19,980 --> 01:16:23,340
Lords and the King. 
The true King, not Robert and 

1612
01:16:23,340 --> 01:16:27,660
his ilk. 
There was crabs and burns and 

1613
01:16:27,660 --> 01:16:29,740
bogs with Prince Ray Gar on the 
Trident. 

1614
01:16:30,260 --> 01:16:32,940
And in the King's car too. 
A Hardy, a cave. 

1615
01:16:33,020 --> 01:16:34,740
A pine. 
Three crabs. 

1616
01:16:34,980 --> 01:16:38,450
Clement and Rupert. 
Clarence the Short 6 foot tall 

1617
01:16:38,450 --> 01:16:41,250
he was but short compared to the
real Sir Clarence. 

1618
01:16:41,890 --> 01:16:43,810
We're all good dragon men. 
Up. 

1619
01:16:43,810 --> 01:16:44,610
Crack. 
Claw away. 

1620
01:16:44,890 --> 01:16:45,810
Up. 
Crack Claw away. 

1621
01:16:45,810 --> 01:16:47,410
I like how he calls it Crab 
Isle. 

1622
01:16:47,410 --> 01:16:50,650
It's Claw Isle, but he's got 
such contempt for the Celtic 

1623
01:16:50,650 --> 01:16:53,170
Guard that he doesn't even call 
the name properly. 

1624
01:16:53,170 --> 01:16:54,650
Like, I like that. 
It may have been like a 

1625
01:16:54,690 --> 01:16:57,970
legitimate mistake the way it 
was written, but it works really

1626
01:16:57,970 --> 01:16:59,370
well. 
It's like, it's like he doesn't 

1627
01:16:59,370 --> 01:17:02,410
even care. 
That's that's how he feels about

1628
01:17:02,410 --> 01:17:05,450
this, the Celtic Guards. 
So there's a lot more we can see

1629
01:17:05,450 --> 01:17:07,050
about that quote. 
That thing is packed. 

1630
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:10,670
With potential analysis, what it
says about the place and the 

1631
01:17:10,670 --> 01:17:13,230
people and the history of the 
King's Guard, just that's a lot 

1632
01:17:13,230 --> 01:17:14,310
of different King's Guard from 
there. 

1633
01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:17,190
But it just goes to show Visenia
formed the King's Guard and a 

1634
01:17:17,190 --> 01:17:19,630
lot of people join the King's 
Guard from this region not only 

1635
01:17:19,630 --> 01:17:22,910
because they want to be part of 
this Targaryen regime. 

1636
01:17:22,910 --> 01:17:25,030
They're proud to join it, 
they're proud to be, have been 

1637
01:17:25,070 --> 01:17:29,030
asked to be a part of it, and 
they're proud to join the 

1638
01:17:29,030 --> 01:17:31,940
institutions that come with it. 
He said That this is packed with

1639
01:17:31,940 --> 01:17:34,340
a lot, almost everything, 
Nimble, Dick Crab said, was 

1640
01:17:34,340 --> 01:17:36,660
packed with a lot. 
I bet when George came out with 

1641
01:17:36,660 --> 01:17:38,220
this, characters like this is 
going to be good. 

1642
01:17:38,580 --> 01:17:40,740
I got a lot of fun. 
Like, I got a winner this time. 

1643
01:17:40,860 --> 01:17:42,060
I really. 
You did it again, George. 

1644
01:17:42,260 --> 01:17:46,100
Got some stuff on the back. 
Like you did it again. 

1645
01:17:46,140 --> 01:17:47,500
You did it again, old man. 
Yeah. 

1646
01:17:47,500 --> 01:17:52,060
So it's hard to imagine a better
result here from what Busenia 

1647
01:17:52,060 --> 01:17:54,820
did over the long term and the 
short term. 

1648
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,920
Nina says her approach played 
perfectly to the history of the 

1649
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:00,600
region. 
On Crack Claw Point, the native 

1650
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,600
first minute strongly resisted 
the invasion of the and Alls, 

1651
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,600
and while a number of petty 
kings had tried to impose their 

1652
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,760
writ in the area, the Crack Claw
Point natives, it always refused

1653
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,640
to bend the knee. 
They were proud of their 

1654
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,680
independence and would only take
direction and leadership from 

1655
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:18,040
their local heroes. 
So Vicenya wisely embrace that 

1656
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,240
spirit of independence by giving
the families of Crack Claw Point

1657
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,760
freedom from the prior Lord who 
tried to dominate them. 

1658
01:18:25,580 --> 01:18:29,100
She elevated them to the same 
status as the ones who had 

1659
01:18:29,100 --> 01:18:30,500
constantly been trying to 
dominate them. 

1660
01:18:30,500 --> 01:18:33,540
She said No, you're you are 
officially on the same level as 

1661
01:18:33,540 --> 01:18:35,740
them. 
The Darklands, the Celtagars, 

1662
01:18:35,740 --> 01:18:38,700
the etcetera, all the other ones
that had always looked down on 

1663
01:18:38,700 --> 01:18:40,740
them, so that's a huge thing. 
She brought them up. 

1664
01:18:40,740 --> 01:18:45,980
She spoke to their pride in a 
way that elevated them, rather 

1665
01:18:45,980 --> 01:18:49,580
than all these others who are 
too proud to step down. 

1666
01:18:50,010 --> 01:18:53,010
And avoid destruction at the 
hands of dragonflame. 

1667
01:18:53,370 --> 01:18:57,290
They were proud in a different 
way that enabled him say, hey we

1668
01:18:57,290 --> 01:19:00,050
are good enough. 
We're honored by your selection.

1669
01:19:00,050 --> 01:19:03,890
We're honored by this promotion.
So it's like two sides of the 

1670
01:19:03,890 --> 01:19:06,450
pride coin right. 
It's kind of interesting like 

1671
01:19:06,570 --> 01:19:10,530
one side You've got the Lord 
saying we have kings and Queens.

1672
01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:11,770
We're too proud to bend the 
knee. 

1673
01:19:11,850 --> 01:19:15,930
But a crack law they're. 
Proud to bend the knee, right? 

1674
01:19:16,690 --> 01:19:19,490
So that's really neat I think 
and and it shows like this, Two 

1675
01:19:19,810 --> 01:19:24,170
very differing scenarios. 
The Veil, one of the proudest 

1676
01:19:24,170 --> 01:19:27,210
places in the entire Kingdom. 
I mean this is the heart of 

1677
01:19:27,890 --> 01:19:31,810
Andal chivalry and where the 
Andals first came means arguably

1678
01:19:31,810 --> 01:19:33,170
that's the Reach in terms of the
heart of Shivery. 

1679
01:19:33,170 --> 01:19:36,010
But it started in the Veil. 
They came over in the Veil 

1680
01:19:36,010 --> 01:19:37,170
first. 
That's where the Andals first 

1681
01:19:37,170 --> 01:19:39,010
landed. 
So it was a lot of. 

1682
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:46,560
Origin stuff is rude to fame. 
Yeah, consider what we probably 

1683
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:52,080
have the best parallel for 
crack, claw point and Visenna is

1684
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,560
John telling Stannis how to 
treat them. 

1685
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:59,520
The hill Klansmen in the north, 
he's like just, you know, go 

1686
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,240
there this. 
Isn't need to know, right? 

1687
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:02,280
Yeah. 
I want to give her credit cuz 

1688
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:03,240
it's such a good point. 
Yeah. 

1689
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,960
It is. 
You honor them and, you know, 

1690
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:07,960
praise their daughter. 
He's like, well, I. 

1691
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,800
Praise their daughters and eat 
some porridge for 3000 men. 

1692
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,120
Yeah, of course I'll do that. 
It's like, he's like, if it's 

1693
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:17,320
really that many men, then this 
is clearly, he'll definitely do 

1694
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:19,960
that. 
And it's pretty similar. 

1695
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:21,320
Vizanya is probably thinking the
same thing. 

1696
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:24,280
It's like, well, I do I have to 
praise their daughters and eat 

1697
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:25,720
their porridge and we'll win 
them. 

1698
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:27,640
Yeah, I'll do that. 
Sure. 

1699
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:31,000
Like, no problem. 
I don't even have to burn any of

1700
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,120
them. 
But can I burn one of them? 

1701
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:34,080
Burn Maybe. 
Let me burn 1. 

1702
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:37,200
Castle, come on. 
The edge of the parallel. 

1703
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,600
Mellisenia is their one person. 
That's right. 

1704
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,160
That's right. 
You heard it here first, folks. 

1705
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,640
Senia is Melisandre. 
That's a dangerous mashup. 

1706
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:46,440
That's true. 
That's a lot of fire. 

1707
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,360
That's too much fire. 
Too much? 

1708
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:52,440
So they couldn't give up their 
crowns, cuz they had them for so

1709
01:20:52,440 --> 01:20:54,360
long. 
But these folks didn't have 

1710
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,760
crowns and they'd been 
overlooked for so long. 

1711
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,800
So elevating them was such a 
great thing. 

1712
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,000
They were hungry for respect. 
And then you gave it to them, 

1713
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,990
yeah. 
Very neat. 

1714
01:21:03,990 --> 01:21:06,190
I really like that part. 
It's it's not even part of the 

1715
01:21:06,190 --> 01:21:08,150
war with the Veil, but it 
happens in between. 

1716
01:21:08,150 --> 01:21:09,750
This is the best time for us to 
talk about it. 

1717
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:13,590
So the Veil may have been 
wondering like, well, they're 

1718
01:21:13,870 --> 01:21:16,350
going to come back for us. 
They're not done just because we

1719
01:21:17,190 --> 01:21:18,950
threw off that first thrust of 
their ships. 

1720
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:20,190
They're going to build more 
ships. 

1721
01:21:20,190 --> 01:21:23,150
They still have their Dragons. 
They're busy fighting elsewhere,

1722
01:21:23,150 --> 01:21:24,110
but we know they're going to 
come back. 

1723
01:21:24,110 --> 01:21:26,910
So they continue to mount 
defenses, probably. 

1724
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,800
Tried to build new ships, may 
have sought new ally. 

1725
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:32,600
Maybe like, hey bravo, if you 
want to help us again. 

1726
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:34,000
Like, thanks for those 12 
warships. 

1727
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,280
Sorry about those all being 
burned, but you know it's at 

1728
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:39,560
stake here. 
The same logic that sent that 

1729
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:41,120
caused you to send those ships 
the first time. 

1730
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:44,640
Well, we still need that help. 
The same thing still apply 

1731
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,680
however. 
More evidence of the power the 

1732
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:52,600
Targaryens was mounting. 
For example, the veil got 

1733
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:54,120
further reprieve. 
At least they may have thought 

1734
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,960
it was reprieve. 
At the least, it was time, 

1735
01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:59,190
right? 
Vasenia received word that she 

1736
01:21:59,190 --> 01:22:01,910
was needed. 
Her brother the King had learned

1737
01:22:02,030 --> 01:22:05,430
that the Reach and the West had 
joined forces and mustering the 

1738
01:22:05,430 --> 01:22:09,750
largest army ever seen in 
Westeros, 55,000 soldiers with 

1739
01:22:09,750 --> 01:22:14,630
600 Lords in this army. 
This is of course the build up 

1740
01:22:14,630 --> 01:22:17,110
to the field of fire. 
They would need to be made an 

1741
01:22:17,110 --> 01:22:19,110
example of. 
They would also need to be just 

1742
01:22:19,110 --> 01:22:20,590
defeated as well as made an 
example of. 

1743
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:23,030
And Veigar would be needed for 
that great example. 

1744
01:22:23,230 --> 01:22:25,230
All three Dragons would be 
needed for that. 

1745
01:22:25,630 --> 01:22:29,470
So Vasenia paused. 
Her participation in the 

1746
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:33,150
campaigns of the East, she was 
done with crack claw point by 

1747
01:22:33,150 --> 01:22:36,630
then, or done enough and wasn't 
ready to return to the Vale 

1748
01:22:36,630 --> 01:22:39,190
because, well, they didn't have 
a Navy, They didn't have the 

1749
01:22:39,190 --> 01:22:41,470
means to do anything other than 
burn things. 

1750
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:45,870
So she flew to Sony. 
Sept was reunited with her 

1751
01:22:45,870 --> 01:22:49,060
siblings. 
And maybe some more strategy was

1752
01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:52,580
discussed, maybe some planning, 
some reconnoitering, like, well,

1753
01:22:52,580 --> 01:22:54,060
this is what worked. 
This is what didn't I really 

1754
01:22:54,060 --> 01:22:55,500
wonder? 
What was said in those meetings 

1755
01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:58,900
is the first time they had 
gotten together after leaving 

1756
01:22:58,900 --> 01:23:02,060
for the initial destinations, 
their initial targets. 

1757
01:23:03,620 --> 01:23:06,780
Now, of course, Next up is the 
Field of fire here, which of 

1758
01:23:06,780 --> 01:23:08,380
course we'll cover in a separate
episode. 

1759
01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:12,260
That is the event that's of 
course being built up right here

1760
01:23:13,300 --> 01:23:18,280
now, after the field of fire. 
Well, she heads back. 

1761
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:23,400
She took an arrow to the 
shoulder at the Field of fire, 

1762
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:27,800
and since she wasn't gone that 
long, it was probably still a 

1763
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,080
wound. 
It probably hadn't still healed 

1764
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:33,480
by the time she got back to the 
veil, which is didn't matter, 

1765
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:38,240
but it may have annoyed her a 
little, you know? 

1766
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,000
But it just goes to show that's 
like the only wound any of the 

1767
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:43,400
Targaryens took that we know of 
in the entire conquest. 

1768
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:48,030
So. 
What's that minus Dorn, right? 

1769
01:23:48,230 --> 01:23:50,510
Right. 
Arguably, that's not part of the

1770
01:23:50,510 --> 01:23:53,430
Conquest. 
But either way, that's yeah, 

1771
01:23:53,430 --> 01:23:54,950
that certainly counts one way or
the other. 

1772
01:23:55,590 --> 01:23:57,830
Queen Shara probably hoped for 
more time than this. 

1773
01:23:57,830 --> 01:24:00,990
She's like, OK, good, Visanya is
going, leaving for a while, You 

1774
01:24:00,990 --> 01:24:04,710
know, maybe Hopefully she dies. 
Hopefully Agon dies and then 

1775
01:24:04,710 --> 01:24:05,990
they won't come back and Dragon 
dies. 

1776
01:24:06,070 --> 01:24:07,110
Yeah, hopefully something 
happens. 

1777
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:09,310
It's like all they got was a 
shoulder wound, Like out of all.

1778
01:24:09,310 --> 01:24:12,190
That damn. 
So I wonder it too. 

1779
01:24:12,190 --> 01:24:16,360
Maybe if on some level the the 
the Veil or other entities 

1780
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:20,920
thought, well once they get 3 or
4 kingdoms that'll be enough and

1781
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:22,680
they'll leave us alone. 
You know, that could have been 

1782
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:24,040
an angle they were hoping for 
too. 

1783
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:27,320
So so even though not a lot of 
time had passed. 

1784
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:28,680
Like, she probably still had her
shoulder wound. 

1785
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:30,400
The field of fire didn't take 
that long. 

1786
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:34,080
You know, given what a 
monumentous event it was, it 

1787
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,560
wasn't, you know, a long, months
long campaign or anything. 

1788
01:24:38,260 --> 01:24:40,700
So the evidence was becoming, if
it wasn't already obvious that 

1789
01:24:40,700 --> 01:24:43,180
fighting the Dragons, or even a 
single dragon was foolish, even 

1790
01:24:43,180 --> 01:24:45,100
though they had lost the naval 
battle, everything about the 

1791
01:24:45,100 --> 01:24:49,060
Dragons suggested Yikes, let's 
not fight another naval battle. 

1792
01:24:49,180 --> 01:24:52,140
Yeah. 
So Heron may have been. 

1793
01:24:52,140 --> 01:24:54,940
Naive, because he hadn't yet 
seen the Dragons in action, and 

1794
01:24:54,940 --> 01:24:57,540
none of the other Lords had 
really either, for the most 

1795
01:24:57,540 --> 01:25:00,060
part. 
But after this, now there was 

1796
01:25:00,060 --> 01:25:01,860
the field of fire, there was 
hair and all. 

1797
01:25:02,260 --> 01:25:04,220
They couldn't claim to be naive 
anymore. 

1798
01:25:04,220 --> 01:25:06,660
Nor, I mean, why would they? 
They know they have all this 

1799
01:25:06,660 --> 01:25:09,610
evidence. 
And then Rainy made an example 

1800
01:25:09,610 --> 01:25:12,330
out of Argyllac. 
So by the time to send you 

1801
01:25:12,330 --> 01:25:15,690
returns to the to the Vale, 
there's been the field of fire, 

1802
01:25:16,090 --> 01:25:18,490
there's been the conquest of the
Storm lands. 

1803
01:25:18,490 --> 01:25:20,530
There's been the the burning of 
Heron Hall. 

1804
01:25:21,130 --> 01:25:23,930
And by then Torrent Stark had 
surrendered, I was going to say.

1805
01:25:23,930 --> 01:25:25,850
And the North too, right? 
N had surrendered. 

1806
01:25:25,890 --> 01:25:28,290
Yeah, the dominoes are falling. 
The Vicenia. 

1807
01:25:28,290 --> 01:25:33,010
Had burned their fleet so much. 
And even without all that, I 

1808
01:25:33,010 --> 01:25:34,330
don't want to jump ahead too 
far. 

1809
01:25:34,330 --> 01:25:37,730
But when the Dragons like right 
there with the sun, you know, 

1810
01:25:38,490 --> 01:25:41,090
like that's. 
That it could have happened in 

1811
01:25:41,090 --> 01:25:45,370
another order, I think, yeah. 
For example, if, what happened? 

1812
01:25:45,370 --> 01:25:49,490
In Dorn happened now where they 
continuously failed and the 

1813
01:25:49,490 --> 01:25:52,090
Dornish like showed a strategy 
that might actually work. 

1814
01:25:52,210 --> 01:25:54,770
You might have seen other 
regions maybe try to. 

1815
01:25:54,770 --> 01:25:56,970
I mean, not that they're well 
equipped to do like the Dornish 

1816
01:25:56,970 --> 01:25:58,930
did, but they might have at 
least shown that there was a 

1817
01:25:58,930 --> 01:26:01,510
way. 
No one had really beaten them 

1818
01:26:01,510 --> 01:26:04,430
except sort of in this naval 
battle or given them more than a

1819
01:26:04,430 --> 01:26:06,470
setback. 
You know, if you flip it around 

1820
01:26:06,470 --> 01:26:10,430
too, if this had happened in 
another order, if she had landed

1821
01:26:10,430 --> 01:26:12,510
in there and took the sun, they 
gave it that. 

1822
01:26:12,750 --> 01:26:15,190
That might not have set the same
example to everyone else. 

1823
01:26:15,310 --> 01:26:17,470
They probably still have to try 
the Field of Fire or whatever. 

1824
01:26:17,470 --> 01:26:18,750
Does that make sense? 
Yeah, maybe. 

1825
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:20,390
Yeah, maybe. 
And the Field of Fire. 

1826
01:26:20,390 --> 01:26:21,470
Something like that. 
Not like winning. 

1827
01:26:21,470 --> 01:26:26,470
The veil would have eliminated 
the large numerical advantage 

1828
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:30,870
that the West and and the Reach.
We're banking on, yeah, adding 

1829
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:32,590
the veil soldier to the mix. 
Still, they would have been 

1830
01:26:32,590 --> 01:26:34,430
badly out. 
It doesn't give quite the same 

1831
01:26:34,430 --> 01:26:37,470
notch to your belt that makes 
everyone want to back off that 

1832
01:26:37,470 --> 01:26:39,430
here in Hall did. 
Or the Field of Fire. 

1833
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:41,670
Like you guys lost your fleet up
there. 

1834
01:26:41,950 --> 01:26:44,830
She only surrendered because you
had your son her son captive. 

1835
01:26:44,830 --> 01:26:46,790
You know, like it would be 
easier to blow that off. 

1836
01:26:47,250 --> 01:26:49,970
So in a way maybe it's better 
for that to have come later. 

1837
01:26:49,970 --> 01:26:52,450
Even if they could have got that
sooner without the other 

1838
01:26:52,450 --> 01:26:55,450
victories before the veil, it 
probably is better for it to 

1839
01:26:55,450 --> 01:26:58,010
have come later. 
Vicenia's Also Nina makes a note

1840
01:26:58,010 --> 01:27:01,250
here the Vicenia remarks how? 
It may have been lucky for them 

1841
01:27:01,250 --> 01:27:05,290
that that the King of the Rock 
capitulated the way he did 

1842
01:27:05,610 --> 01:27:09,050
because casually rock like how 
could they have? 

1843
01:27:09,170 --> 01:27:11,810
What could they have done there?
That would have been a really 

1844
01:27:11,810 --> 01:27:14,130
bad siege. 
A really time consuming, 

1845
01:27:14,130 --> 01:27:18,020
difficult scenario I mean. 
It's never been taken. 

1846
01:27:18,540 --> 01:27:20,380
The dragon can't burn. 
You can't burn the rock. 

1847
01:27:20,620 --> 01:27:22,420
I think they could have 
eventually taken it. 

1848
01:27:22,620 --> 01:27:25,220
Yeah, it would have taken a lot 
longer and cost a lot more 

1849
01:27:25,220 --> 01:27:28,300
casualties and maybe Neon, I 
have been worth it, you know, 

1850
01:27:28,340 --> 01:27:30,380
maybe not. 
Yeah, so, So, Vizanya says. 

1851
01:27:30,460 --> 01:27:31,900
Ooh, that was. 
Yeah, I'm glad they surrendered 

1852
01:27:31,900 --> 01:27:33,220
cuz we won't have to deal with 
that. 

1853
01:27:34,260 --> 01:27:37,460
And at that point Torren hadn't 
surrendered yet. 

1854
01:27:37,740 --> 01:27:39,740
So at the field of fire, Torn, 
torn. 

1855
01:27:39,740 --> 01:27:42,020
Didn't surrender till after the 
field of fire he marks his army 

1856
01:27:42,020 --> 01:27:44,300
down. 
Arrived at Heron Hall, saw it 

1857
01:27:44,300 --> 01:27:47,520
burning and. 
Saw that Aegon already had men 

1858
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,960
from the Reach on his side and 
all this other stuff, so that 

1859
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:51,920
decision was separate. 
We'll obviously discuss that 

1860
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:57,000
separately as well, but every 
Kingdom had a different set of 

1861
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:01,640
circumstances to work with. 
But, and as we've said, the 

1862
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:03,880
different ordering of events may
have changed the way they 

1863
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,960
perceived what their potential 
to defeat the Dragons were, but 

1864
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:11,880
as it played out, the evidence 
levied against or available to 

1865
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,960
Shara was that. 
Pretty much no one could beat 

1866
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:16,560
these guys. 
Like no one had done anything 

1867
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:20,040
more than minor setbacks, You 
know, a wound to the shoulder, 

1868
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,640
You know, obviously Rainy's and 
the failures and Dorn were years

1869
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:25,880
away still, so that it just 
didn't look like anyone could 

1870
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:28,040
win. 
And the one person, maybe they 

1871
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:30,520
could have held out the King of 
the Rock, didn't, didn't try. 

1872
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,240
So that might have been, by the 
way, something that the veil man

1873
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:36,160
and the sister men were banking.
I was like, oh, it's going to 

1874
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:37,840
take them forever to subdue the 
West. 

1875
01:28:38,180 --> 01:28:40,900
Yeah, yeah. 
It's just like, right back I was

1876
01:28:40,900 --> 01:28:44,060
like, oh, it didn't take forever
to say, damn it, like we really 

1877
01:28:44,060 --> 01:28:46,300
thought that. 
Was going to take forever, so I 

1878
01:28:46,300 --> 01:28:47,380
didn't think of another thing 
too. 

1879
01:28:47,380 --> 01:28:50,260
By the way, the idea of, like, 
burning these castles, they were

1880
01:28:50,260 --> 01:28:53,140
going to burn the veil from the 
inside, right? 

1881
01:28:53,140 --> 01:28:55,460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
It's like, we can't do that. 

1882
01:28:55,460 --> 01:28:58,300
Like our castle? 
Is a lot more vulnerable and 

1883
01:28:58,300 --> 01:29:01,140
it's so pretty it will never 
look the same if it's blackened.

1884
01:29:01,140 --> 01:29:03,620
And that is also part of their 
claim to fame, their pride or 

1885
01:29:03,620 --> 01:29:04,660
whatever. 
Is that castle? 

1886
01:29:04,660 --> 01:29:07,460
You know, it is sort of the, I 
don't know, the culmination of 

1887
01:29:07,460 --> 01:29:10,580
their empire, if you will. 
They're into that. 

1888
01:29:10,580 --> 01:29:12,660
They stand to lose a lot by 
surrendering. 

1889
01:29:12,660 --> 01:29:14,900
They stand to lose a lot. 
More by not surrendering. 

1890
01:29:14,900 --> 01:29:17,300
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Because yeah, he could just if 

1891
01:29:17,300 --> 01:29:19,020
that if their castles destroyed 
then. 

1892
01:29:19,660 --> 01:29:22,060
What do they have like? 
Well, they'll never get back on 

1893
01:29:22,060 --> 01:29:24,500
top, You know, he might replace 
them. 

1894
01:29:24,500 --> 01:29:26,300
He's like, OK, well, you're not 
in charge of the veil anymore. 

1895
01:29:26,420 --> 01:29:28,780
I'm appointing the voices or 
the. 

1896
01:29:28,860 --> 01:29:29,660
The Grafton. 
Yeah. 

1897
01:29:29,660 --> 01:29:31,980
Other political precedents have 
been set to at that point. 

1898
01:29:32,020 --> 01:29:34,780
Yeah, you've already had people 
removed and and they don't want 

1899
01:29:34,780 --> 01:29:36,860
to. 
Come out on the wrong side of 

1900
01:29:36,860 --> 01:29:39,740
the the power, Shake up the 
Churn, as we would call it in 

1901
01:29:39,740 --> 01:29:41,940
the Expanse. 
Aegon and the Sisters were 

1902
01:29:42,100 --> 01:29:45,740
enabling, enacting a Churn on 
Westeros, and you want to be on 

1903
01:29:45,740 --> 01:29:47,260
the right side of that when it 
ends. 

1904
01:29:47,700 --> 01:29:49,300
You don't want to die during the
Churn. 

1905
01:29:49,940 --> 01:29:54,980
So to summarize all that, Shara 
had considerably more evidence, 

1906
01:29:55,700 --> 01:29:57,860
especially given the Doran 
hadn't happened yet, that the 

1907
01:29:57,860 --> 01:29:59,660
Dragons were just what are we 
going to do? 

1908
01:29:59,660 --> 01:30:01,740
They didn't. 
They didn't have new answers. 

1909
01:30:01,740 --> 01:30:06,220
If they had, they may have been.
Consulting the old books looking

1910
01:30:06,220 --> 01:30:08,540
for just any kind of answer, how
do we deal with the dragon? 

1911
01:30:08,540 --> 01:30:10,060
How do people deal with them in 
the past? 

1912
01:30:10,420 --> 01:30:15,100
But nothing that came of 
anything, nothing substantial 

1913
01:30:16,060 --> 01:30:18,020
and worse. 
On top of all that, not only was

1914
01:30:18,020 --> 01:30:21,660
there the evidence that the 
Dragons were impossible or near 

1915
01:30:21,740 --> 01:30:24,700
impossible to defeat, now the 
Reach. 

1916
01:30:25,010 --> 01:30:28,810
The storm lands the north. 
These houses are now have bent 

1917
01:30:28,810 --> 01:30:30,690
the knee, so the veil has to 
face them too. 

1918
01:30:30,690 --> 01:30:33,610
Before they were just facing the
Targaryens and their and their 

1919
01:30:33,610 --> 01:30:36,130
new and their small group of 
crown lands out. 

1920
01:30:36,410 --> 01:30:38,450
Now it's approximately one 
against one. 

1921
01:30:38,450 --> 01:30:39,810
Now it's one against five or 
whatever. 

1922
01:30:39,810 --> 01:30:41,490
Now it's like half of Westeros 
is on their side. 

1923
01:30:41,530 --> 01:30:45,570
So they're and they're they're. 
Boxed in, the north is is north 

1924
01:30:45,570 --> 01:30:48,530
of them, and Crack Claw and 
King's Land South of them, and 

1925
01:30:48,530 --> 01:30:50,610
the river lands South of them, 
so they're surrounding Navy's 

1926
01:30:50,610 --> 01:30:52,730
gone and they're yeah, so it's 
really doesn't look good. 

1927
01:30:55,080 --> 01:31:01,880
And it's almost a surprising 
Doran didn't bend the knee and. 

1928
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,000
Also, there's another way to 
think about this. 

1929
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:09,720
And they're ruling a Kingdom is 
not just beating everyone, 

1930
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:12,480
making them bend the knee and 
everything works out. 

1931
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:15,360
Megor is proof of that. 
Megor was able to beat everyone 

1932
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:19,230
in the field. 
Until his army no longer would 

1933
01:31:19,230 --> 01:31:21,750
support it, until everyone had 
just the tide had turned and he 

1934
01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:24,590
was like, well, no one's with me
anymore cuz I've alienated 

1935
01:31:24,590 --> 01:31:27,230
everyone. 
He had the biggest, baddest 

1936
01:31:27,230 --> 01:31:28,910
dragon. 
It wasn't enough, he thought. 

1937
01:31:28,910 --> 01:31:31,230
It was arguably that. 
He may have thought this was 

1938
01:31:31,230 --> 01:31:34,950
enough, but Aegon didn't use his
dragon the same way, and this is

1939
01:31:34,950 --> 01:31:37,190
something we'll be talking about
a lot more in the future with 

1940
01:31:37,310 --> 01:31:39,430
Senia and Megor and all that. 
I mean, more Dragons were there 

1941
01:31:39,430 --> 01:31:43,730
at the time of Megor, quite a 
few, but not. 

1942
01:31:43,730 --> 01:31:45,370
But still, none that could 
challenge, but none that could 

1943
01:31:45,370 --> 01:31:47,090
challenge Balerian. 
Yeah, there's never been one 

1944
01:31:47,090 --> 01:31:50,650
that could challenge Balerian. 
At full size that in these eras,

1945
01:31:50,730 --> 01:31:55,930
you know, even Vagar, when Vagar
got as big as she got, wasn't as

1946
01:31:55,930 --> 01:31:58,490
big as Balerian was. 
You know even that is a. 

1947
01:32:00,030 --> 01:32:01,430
Would they challenge them? 
Say there was one. 

1948
01:32:01,430 --> 01:32:02,030
Would they? 
That's. 

1949
01:32:02,150 --> 01:32:04,790
Another perspective we kind of 
got from House the Dragon is 

1950
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:07,670
like they have a little bit of 
their own minds, you know? 

1951
01:32:07,750 --> 01:32:10,230
Yeah, they don't want to know. 
Like this is a bad ideas like. 

1952
01:32:10,350 --> 01:32:12,630
This is the thing that makes me 
gives me ultimate powers. 

1953
01:32:12,750 --> 01:32:15,340
They give you ultimate power. 
We go up against each other. 

1954
01:32:15,340 --> 01:32:17,300
We risk neither of us having 
this anymore. 

1955
01:32:17,460 --> 01:32:19,020
I don't mean just that. 
I mean the dragon. 

1956
01:32:19,140 --> 01:32:21,940
The actual dragon doesn't want 
to fight through the dragon I 

1957
01:32:21,940 --> 01:32:22,980
see. 
Yeah, they wouldn't necessarily 

1958
01:32:22,980 --> 01:32:25,340
want to go up against one. 
That's true, for whether they're

1959
01:32:25,340 --> 01:32:28,300
scared of it or they have some 
bond with it or whatever other 

1960
01:32:28,300 --> 01:32:29,460
reason. 
Yeah, from everything we know 

1961
01:32:29,460 --> 01:32:31,740
about, Dragon says. 
They're awfully violent and. 

1962
01:32:31,980 --> 01:32:34,620
We'll fight first, even against 
larger ones, but that doesn't 

1963
01:32:34,620 --> 01:32:36,420
mean they're all uniformly that 
way. 

1964
01:32:36,460 --> 01:32:38,460
There's probably some exceptions
or all the time that way. 

1965
01:32:38,540 --> 01:32:41,420
Yeah, yeah, exceptions. 
Both in personality and in 

1966
01:32:41,420 --> 01:32:45,410
circumstances, yeah, so. 
Nina makes a good point that it 

1967
01:32:45,530 --> 01:32:47,170
it's if you burn too many 
people. 

1968
01:32:47,170 --> 01:32:49,770
If you burn too many allies and 
friends like Meg or eventually 

1969
01:32:49,770 --> 01:32:51,770
will do, it has the opposite 
effect. 

1970
01:32:51,850 --> 01:32:54,770
You have to have a light touch 
with how many people you burn. 

1971
01:32:56,530 --> 01:32:57,730
A lighter touch? 
Yes. 

1972
01:32:57,730 --> 01:32:59,890
Or which castles you burn. 
A lighter, dad. 

1973
01:33:00,010 --> 01:33:00,970
Good one. 
Good one. 

1974
01:33:00,970 --> 01:33:05,210
Yeah, so that's bad. 
So at this point, by the time 

1975
01:33:05,210 --> 01:33:09,330
Vissenna is back, the only 
Kingdom still not subject to the

1976
01:33:09,330 --> 01:33:12,720
Iron Throne with the veil. 
Obviously the Iron Islands, 

1977
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:16,440
which was in disarray because of
the Fall of Heron, and though 

1978
01:33:16,440 --> 01:33:19,040
the Reach had been defeated, 
there was still the matter of 

1979
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:20,920
Old Town because it didn't show 
up at the Field of Fire. 

1980
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,160
So it was kind of questionable 
at this point what their deal 

1981
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:26,440
was, but it seemed like they 
were willing to make a peaceful 

1982
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:29,360
surrender, which they did, 
though that's not necessarily 

1983
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:31,960
what Agon knew at the time. 
And of course Dorn, which will 

1984
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:33,320
obviously deal with separately 
also. 

1985
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:36,520
So, similar to what we saw early
in the Conquest, the three 

1986
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:39,520
targarian siblings and their 
Dragons once again split up. 

1987
01:33:40,410 --> 01:33:43,650
Aegon turned S once again, 
marching toward. 

1988
01:33:43,690 --> 01:33:48,930
Old Town, Whilst his two sisters
mounted their Dragons, the Senya

1989
01:33:48,930 --> 01:33:52,610
for the Veil of Aaron and 
Rainey's for Sunspear and the 

1990
01:33:52,610 --> 01:33:57,290
deserts of dorm Shara, Aaron had
strengthened the defenses of 

1991
01:33:57,290 --> 01:34:03,250
Gull Town, moved a strong host 
to the Bloody Gate and tripled 

1992
01:34:03,250 --> 01:34:07,450
the size of the garrisons in 
Stone, snow and sky. 

1993
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:10,920
The way castles that guarded the
approach to the Erie. 

1994
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:13,000
So what? 
She may have been thinking, or 

1995
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:15,720
at least been making motions. 
About maybe just going through 

1996
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:17,840
the motions to give her people 
something to do to show that she

1997
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:21,280
was trying to defend the veil, 
even if her plan was to have to 

1998
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:24,120
give up at some point to say, 
OK, honor demands that we fight,

1999
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:28,200
but it doesn't mean we fight to 
the death, doesn't we go down 

2000
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:32,160
with the ship like our Navy. 
That means we can make an effort

2001
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:34,560
to defend ourselves and not look
like cowards but. 

2002
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:37,280
We're going to give up at some 
point that might have been in 

2003
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:39,640
the back of her mind she she 
wouldn't be saying that out loud

2004
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,200
probably but you can remember 
what the context was. 

2005
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:43,960
But at some point in past when 
we're talking about the idea 

2006
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:46,840
that sometimes you fight knowing
that you're going to lose, but 

2007
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:49,510
if you make the fight hard 
enough that you have better 

2008
01:34:49,510 --> 01:34:52,310
negotiating power and then the 
treaty afterwards, that's also 

2009
01:34:52,310 --> 01:34:54,070
potentially you can beat us 
eventually, but you're going to 

2010
01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:56,670
lose so much doing it. 
We can demand more now for our 

2011
01:34:56,670 --> 01:34:58,990
surrender. 
I like that idea because it gets

2012
01:34:58,990 --> 01:35:00,270
back to what we were saying, 
that Shara. 

2013
01:35:00,270 --> 01:35:02,430
Was willing to negotiate, 
willing to compromise. 

2014
01:35:02,430 --> 01:35:04,150
So that may have been on her 
mind like, well, what's the 

2015
01:35:04,150 --> 01:35:06,430
what's our best angle here? 
She might be like, OK, we're 

2016
01:35:06,430 --> 01:35:08,350
going to lose something here. 
We're going to lose our crown. 

2017
01:35:08,350 --> 01:35:11,070
Maybe. 
But let's not lose much more 

2018
01:35:11,070 --> 01:35:13,270
than that. 
If the battle on the field, you 

2019
01:35:13,270 --> 01:35:15,910
guys lose thousands of troops, 
so do we. 

2020
01:35:16,030 --> 01:35:20,440
Yeah, you risk your Dragons, 
eventually you burn our castle 

2021
01:35:20,440 --> 01:35:23,040
down, you win. 
But what did you get? 

2022
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:27,040
Or let us keep control of X and 
we surrender. 

2023
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:28,320
Right now. 
Right then. 

2024
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:30,520
Soon and saying like, all right,
all right, fine. 

2025
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:32,560
We'll surrender right now and 
give you X because we don't want

2026
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:33,640
to have to burn your castle down
here. 

2027
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,760
Yeah, I kind of think that's it 
that that that's pretty. 

2028
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:39,200
Likely that they, for honor's 
sake, they had to at least put 

2029
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:41,800
up a put up a fight and maybe 
they just expected that. 

2030
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:43,560
No, they're never going to 
subjugate us unless they can 

2031
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:47,270
bring an army into this region. 
And we're not going to allow 

2032
01:35:47,270 --> 01:35:48,190
that. 
We're going to do everything we 

2033
01:35:48,190 --> 01:35:50,590
can to stop them from being an 
army in an Air Force alone won't

2034
01:35:50,590 --> 01:35:51,830
subjugate it. 
They might have been thinking 

2035
01:35:52,150 --> 01:35:54,510
vaguely like Dorn, they can burn
all the castles they want. 

2036
01:35:54,510 --> 01:35:56,990
That's not going to bring us to 
to to the table. 

2037
01:35:57,110 --> 01:36:00,230
But they didn't consider an Air 
Force and kidnapping the air 

2038
01:36:00,230 --> 01:36:02,590
that they did not think. 
You're right, that did not occur

2039
01:36:02,590 --> 01:36:03,390
to her. 
Clearly it. 

2040
01:36:03,390 --> 01:36:05,230
Didn't occur to her. 
Cuz then this wouldn't This 

2041
01:36:05,230 --> 01:36:09,590
wouldn't have happened. 
So think about all that work 

2042
01:36:09,710 --> 01:36:11,550
that was put. 
Into boosting the veils need, 

2043
01:36:12,470 --> 01:36:15,350
boosting their readiness for 
whenever the Targaryens came 

2044
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:18,030
back. 
And then this is what happens, 

2045
01:36:18,030 --> 01:36:20,710
Quote. 
All these defenses proved 

2046
01:36:20,710 --> 01:36:24,110
useless against. 
Vasenya Targaryen, who rode 

2047
01:36:24,110 --> 01:36:28,310
vegars, leathery wings above 
them all and landed in the eries

2048
01:36:28,310 --> 01:36:31,470
in her courtyard. 
When the Regent of the veil 

2049
01:36:31,470 --> 01:36:35,750
rushed out to confront her with 
a dozen guards at her back, she 

2050
01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:40,070
found Vasenya with Ronald Aaron 
seated on her knee, staring at 

2051
01:36:40,070 --> 01:36:43,270
the dragon. 
Wonder struck mother. 

2052
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,720
Can I go flying with the lady? 
The boy? 

2053
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,920
King asked. 
No threats were spoken. 

2054
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:51,840
No. 
Angry words exchanged, the 2 

2055
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:56,720
Queens smiled at one another and
exchanged courtesies instead. 

2056
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:02,480
Then Lady Shara sent for the 
three Crowns, her own Regent's 

2057
01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:07,120
Coronet, her Son's Small Crown 
and the Falcon Crown of Mountain

2058
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:10,760
and Vale that the Erin Kings had
worn for 1000 years. 

2059
01:37:11,480 --> 01:37:15,280
And surrendered them to Queen 
Vasenia, along with the swords 

2060
01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:18,920
of her Garrison. 
And it was said afterward that 

2061
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:22,520
the little king flew thrice 
around the summit of the giants 

2062
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:26,720
Lance and landed to find himself
a little Lord. 

2063
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:31,680
Thus did Vasenia Targaryen bring
the veil of Erin into her 

2064
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:33,880
brother's realm. 
You heard that Hugh Grant movie,

2065
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:35,920
The Englishman who went up a 
hill but came down a mountain. 

2066
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:37,520
Yeah, that's what I think of 
here. 

2067
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:39,800
The veil boy who went up a king 
but came down a Lord. 

2068
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:41,850
Yep. 
But better because it has 

2069
01:37:41,850 --> 01:37:44,610
mountains and Dragons. 
So yeah, that Hugh Grant movie 

2070
01:37:44,610 --> 01:37:46,130
didn't have any Dragons. 
Not one. 

2071
01:37:46,210 --> 01:37:50,170
Not a single dragon. 
Yeah, I don't think they were 

2072
01:37:50,170 --> 01:37:54,770
crowns either, so. 
Nice fancy crowns there, Falcon.

2073
01:37:54,770 --> 01:37:57,130
Crown of Mountain Vale. 
Plus the region's cornet And 

2074
01:37:57,130 --> 01:37:58,570
some small crown. 
You gotta be thorough. 

2075
01:37:58,570 --> 01:38:00,010
Got to give all the crowns over 
like. 

2076
01:38:00,010 --> 01:38:00,530
No. 
Did you? 

2077
01:38:00,530 --> 01:38:01,850
You didn't keep that one crown. 
Did you know? 

2078
01:38:01,850 --> 01:38:03,770
Give me every crown. 
Bring them all the crowns. 

2079
01:38:03,850 --> 01:38:05,930
You got another crown hidden 
under there. 

2080
01:38:06,290 --> 01:38:07,930
Yeah, I know. 
You got another crown there. 

2081
01:38:07,970 --> 01:38:11,050
Like the cowboy, Like turnover. 
Yeah, like one more knife in the

2082
01:38:11,050 --> 01:38:14,930
back and a gun in a sock. 
And is that pulling crowns out 

2083
01:38:14,930 --> 01:38:17,210
from underneath? 
The raw This is a Styrofoam. 

2084
01:38:17,210 --> 01:38:18,850
Where's the real Falcon Crown 
come? 

2085
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:22,160
So the swords of her Garrison, 
is that literal? 

2086
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:26,560
Like I, you know, the swords of 
my Garrison are yours like they 

2087
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,840
are at your command, or is it 
literal like I'm going to add 

2088
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:32,040
them to the Iron Throne? 
I assume it's the soldiers of 

2089
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:33,360
her Garrison, but it could be 
both. 

2090
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:37,600
It could, and that could even be
another thing that Aegon and or 

2091
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:41,160
Fascinia or whoever might have 
might have taken swords not only

2092
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:44,670
to add to the the Iron Throne, 
however much that was 

2093
01:38:44,670 --> 01:38:48,870
specifically planned out, but at
least it temporarily disarm them

2094
01:38:48,870 --> 01:38:50,990
because it would. 
There might be this moment in 

2095
01:38:50,990 --> 01:38:53,110
the aftermath where they tried. 
It's like we'll surrender now, 

2096
01:38:53,110 --> 01:38:54,910
we're going to take it back in 
two weeks or whenever they let 

2097
01:38:54,910 --> 01:38:56,670
their guard down. 
So that's so easy to take your 

2098
01:38:56,670 --> 01:38:58,550
swords. 
And also they have to spend up 

2099
01:38:58,550 --> 01:39:00,710
some more resources making new 
swords, you know? 

2100
01:39:00,950 --> 01:39:02,150
Yeah, that's true. 
Yeah. 

2101
01:39:02,310 --> 01:39:04,110
And it just reminds them of just
puts. 

2102
01:39:04,110 --> 01:39:05,430
Them in their place, so to 
speak. 

2103
01:39:05,430 --> 01:39:06,390
Because yes, this is. 
Don't. 

2104
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:10,910
Don't forget that we're polite. 
We'll rule you with. 

2105
01:39:11,470 --> 01:39:14,430
Dignity. 
But we're in charge and we get 

2106
01:39:14,430 --> 01:39:16,430
we can do what we want and we 
have to demonstrate that from 

2107
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:18,590
time to time. 
Seems like that's the implied 

2108
01:39:18,670 --> 01:39:21,270
angle I didn't take into 
account. 

2109
01:39:22,230 --> 01:39:25,310
May or may not have been there, 
but it's sort of applies that 

2110
01:39:25,310 --> 01:39:27,190
they're taking on a 
responsibility. 

2111
01:39:27,270 --> 01:39:29,990
And it's true too. 
You don't have your swords. 

2112
01:39:30,070 --> 01:39:32,350
We will take care of you. 
We are. 

2113
01:39:32,430 --> 01:39:34,550
We're the military will take 
care of you because that. 

2114
01:39:34,550 --> 01:39:36,910
Is the heart of the vassal 
feudal the feudal vasal? 

2115
01:39:36,910 --> 01:39:39,840
Relationship there so. 
That does make sense, yeah. 

2116
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:41,800
And that's part of why I'm 
wondering if it was like part of

2117
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:43,320
a formal surrender. 
It's like something you always 

2118
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:46,960
do, like you hand over the 
crowns and the swords and yeah, 

2119
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:51,880
like that's a thing and not so 
much anymore, but for a long 

2120
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:54,000
time. 
And like European warfare, 

2121
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,800
especially if I understand it, 
like when one side surrendered 

2122
01:39:56,800 --> 01:39:58,200
to the other, they would hand 
over their sword. 

2123
01:39:58,200 --> 01:40:00,440
It would be like one officer. 
The commanding officer would 

2124
01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:05,000
hand his sword to the. 
Victorious Commander and often 

2125
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:07,360
the guy would be like, we hand 
it back as a symbol of okay. 

2126
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:09,320
You're beaten. 
You can have your sword back as 

2127
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:13,560
a way of being polite about it. 
Like, yeah, we just killed all 

2128
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:15,880
your guys, but you can have your
sword back. 

2129
01:40:16,480 --> 01:40:18,960
It's kind of weird in that 
sense, but it is a real world 

2130
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:23,120
thing of this ritual of handing 
over your weapon of surrender. 

2131
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:26,040
Yeah. 
So the campaigns in the Storm 

2132
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:29,570
Lands and River Lands got far 
more written about them in the 

2133
01:40:29,570 --> 01:40:31,210
book in terms of military 
action. 

2134
01:40:31,210 --> 01:40:33,850
And that's because there wasn't 
a lot of military action. 

2135
01:40:33,850 --> 01:40:35,970
The subjugation of the Veil. 
There was a lot in terms of 

2136
01:40:35,970 --> 01:40:38,050
preparation, maybe even more. 
There might have been more 

2137
01:40:38,050 --> 01:40:41,810
preparation, more beefing of 
defenses and doing things that 

2138
01:40:41,810 --> 01:40:44,530
just didn't amount to anything. 
It just that they were all those

2139
01:40:44,530 --> 01:40:48,210
defenses were just, I'm going to
say maybe but 55,000 troops, I 

2140
01:40:48,210 --> 01:40:48,530
don't know. 
I. 

2141
01:40:48,530 --> 01:40:50,850
Think that's the most you might 
be right about that, Okay. 

2142
01:40:50,850 --> 01:40:52,050
Yeah. 
Fairpoint, Fairpoint, second 

2143
01:40:52,050 --> 01:40:54,740
most we'll say, yeah, you're 
probably right about that. 

2144
01:40:55,060 --> 01:40:56,420
Still, it's a lot of a lot of 
time. 

2145
01:40:56,420 --> 01:40:58,140
More time spent on it, Yeah, 
yeah. 

2146
01:40:58,140 --> 01:41:00,500
So more waiting, more anxiety of
what's going to happen, you 

2147
01:41:00,500 --> 01:41:03,260
know, Whereas the Field of Fire 
was like, just happened, you 

2148
01:41:03,260 --> 01:41:04,620
know. 
And same with our galactic These

2149
01:41:04,620 --> 01:41:06,780
things were just the targets 
sent their letter out of. 

2150
01:41:06,940 --> 01:41:09,820
People know they were coming, 
but they didn't take a long time

2151
01:41:09,860 --> 01:41:12,260
to get there. 
Are there even 600 Lords in the 

2152
01:41:12,260 --> 01:41:15,510
Veil? 
Yeah, if you cuz Lord includes 

2153
01:41:15,510 --> 01:41:18,190
like very small petty Lords, 
Lords that would not be worthy 

2154
01:41:18,190 --> 01:41:20,950
of under Lords or whatever. 
Yeah, they're called minor, Lord

2155
01:41:20,950 --> 01:41:22,550
or petty. 
They're still technically Lord, 

2156
01:41:22,550 --> 01:41:26,790
but like the difference between 
some Lords is like they 

2157
01:41:26,790 --> 01:41:30,750
basically have a small village 
or two, whereas some control. 

2158
01:41:30,750 --> 01:41:32,350
You know Winterfell? 
Yeah. 

2159
01:41:32,670 --> 01:41:34,830
What was the? 
I can't remember his name. 

2160
01:41:34,830 --> 01:41:38,450
And the the sworn sword. 
Sir Eustace Osgrey. 

2161
01:41:38,490 --> 01:41:39,770
Yeah. 
Is he a Lord? 

2162
01:41:39,850 --> 01:41:43,730
He had been a Lord. 
He was demoted to a land owning 

2163
01:41:43,730 --> 01:41:45,130
knight, which you can be as 
well. 

2164
01:41:45,330 --> 01:41:48,210
Normally when a knight owns 
land, they're called Master 

2165
01:41:48,690 --> 01:41:53,530
Okay. 
So he's the master of osgre of 

2166
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:55,440
whatever. 
I now I've forgotten the the 

2167
01:41:55,480 --> 01:41:58,640
name of the tower. 
Yeah, but the feel so. 

2168
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:00,400
Ashamed of that because I love 
those stories so much. 

2169
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:05,320
I think I haven't even reread 
all the books in the main. 

2170
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:08,880
But I have reread those books 
like I should know it better. 

2171
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:13,480
But so yeah, the Osgrays. 
Is a good example there of a 

2172
01:42:13,480 --> 01:42:15,320
house that was demoted but still
gets to own land. 

2173
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:19,430
So I think I think you have 
maybe you, I don't know how land

2174
01:42:19,430 --> 01:42:21,430
ownership works for like 
merchants in terms like they're 

2175
01:42:21,430 --> 01:42:24,030
not, they're not nobles, but I'm
pretty sure they can own land. 

2176
01:42:24,350 --> 01:42:28,470
So yeah so it's it's like a 
you're holding a title for the 

2177
01:42:28,470 --> 01:42:30,070
king. 
It's part of the the feudal 

2178
01:42:30,070 --> 01:42:33,630
system versus just a landowner 
who pays taxes to his Lord and 

2179
01:42:33,630 --> 01:42:35,150
that's different. 
So yeah, some of these nitty 

2180
01:42:35,150 --> 01:42:38,030
gritty things, we might need to 
bring in someone else to explain

2181
01:42:38,030 --> 01:42:40,590
some of these things to us. 
I don't know how all those lower

2182
01:42:40,590 --> 01:42:42,430
level, like day-to-day things 
work. 

2183
01:42:42,950 --> 01:42:44,790
Maybe we need Steven Atwell or 
someone for that. 

2184
01:42:45,930 --> 01:42:48,450
So earlier we used the example 
of Megor and his inability to 

2185
01:42:48,450 --> 01:42:51,410
understand the psychology of 
intimidation and Dragons 

2186
01:42:51,410 --> 01:42:53,530
properly. 
As we said, he's pretty brutal 

2187
01:42:53,530 --> 01:42:57,090
about it and Aegon will later 
spend much of his reign going 

2188
01:42:57,090 --> 01:42:59,930
from place to place, like he 
doesn't sit at King's Landing 

2189
01:42:59,930 --> 01:43:02,810
and and issue dictates all day. 
He went around, he went from 

2190
01:43:02,810 --> 01:43:09,330
court to court showing himself, 
you know, putting in FaceTime, 

2191
01:43:09,330 --> 01:43:13,290
kind of honoring them with his, 
his presence, but also eating 

2192
01:43:13,290 --> 01:43:15,010
all their food, cuz he's 
bringing a lot of people with 

2193
01:43:15,010 --> 01:43:17,090
him in his dragon. 
But everyone gets to see 

2194
01:43:17,090 --> 01:43:20,050
Belleria in that way. 
Everyone sees this guy that's 

2195
01:43:20,650 --> 01:43:23,210
they're now subject to and he's 
their protector. 

2196
01:43:23,210 --> 01:43:25,290
And we say okay. 
Well, this guy looks capable of 

2197
01:43:25,810 --> 01:43:28,730
doing what he says, you know, 
and he wanted to put in his put 

2198
01:43:28,730 --> 01:43:30,970
in that FaceTime with as many 
people as possible to make sure 

2199
01:43:30,970 --> 01:43:34,850
they were confident in him, to 
give him, give them that sense, 

2200
01:43:34,850 --> 01:43:39,770
to honor them with his presence.
And that's something that Meg or

2201
01:43:39,770 --> 01:43:43,200
doesn't grasp, but Jaharis will.
And the reason I bring that up 

2202
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:45,960
now rather than when we get to 
those characters is because of 

2203
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:48,840
this whole thing with Visenia 
and Agon and Rainy's and who 

2204
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:51,720
their parents are, right? 
Rainy's isn't going to be around

2205
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:54,920
to raise Annie's very much. 
Visenia will be around a lot to 

2206
01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:59,560
raise Megor. 
And you wonder where if Jerry's 

2207
01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:01,640
just learns these lessons later.
He wasn't really. 

2208
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:05,920
He was raised by Alyssa, you 
know, his his mother, Alyssa 

2209
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:09,640
Velarian, who was a big, 
important character, and the 

2210
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:12,120
daughter of Ethan, by the way. 
Ethan. 

2211
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:12,760
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

2212
01:44:13,160 --> 01:44:16,440
So it's interesting to look at 
the dichotomy of these different

2213
01:44:16,440 --> 01:44:18,720
how they rule. 
Like Anis, Megor and Jaharius 

2214
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:20,520
are all going to rule pretty 
differently. 

2215
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:24,480
Jaharius, best of all probably 
learned the lessons of his 

2216
01:44:24,480 --> 01:44:28,960
grandfather, whereas the Sons of
Agon did not learn them very 

2217
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:30,320
well. 
And maybe that's partly 

2218
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:33,540
parenting. 
Maybe that's partly their 

2219
01:44:33,700 --> 01:44:35,700
lessons aren't as easy or power 
goes to your head. 

2220
01:44:35,700 --> 01:44:37,420
Or, I don't know, there's a lot 
of possibilities there. 

2221
01:44:37,580 --> 01:44:40,260
Maybe it's too new for the 
lessons to. 

2222
01:44:41,580 --> 01:44:45,100
Come to fruition or be 
established or be challenged by 

2223
01:44:45,100 --> 01:44:47,860
another method I also want to 
point out. 

2224
01:44:48,550 --> 01:44:51,110
Of Cirrus and Rainera didn't 
learn the lessons very well 

2225
01:44:51,110 --> 01:44:52,070
either. 
Nope, right? 

2226
01:44:52,070 --> 01:44:54,990
They also had the option of 
flying around to the other 

2227
01:44:54,990 --> 01:44:57,550
kingdoms on her Dragons to make 
it clear I'm going to be queen 

2228
01:44:57,550 --> 01:44:59,270
next. 
Yeah, but they didn't. 

2229
01:44:59,270 --> 01:45:01,950
They just sat in her ivory 
towers and when the time came, 

2230
01:45:01,950 --> 01:45:05,830
no one was really ready or so. 
And that's the common and 

2231
01:45:05,830 --> 01:45:09,270
correct in my opinion, complaint
against you, Harris, is that he 

2232
01:45:09,270 --> 01:45:14,180
was great in terms of managing 
the Lords and peasants and 

2233
01:45:14,180 --> 01:45:16,620
infrastructure, but he was bad 
with his own family. 

2234
01:45:17,260 --> 01:45:19,740
Like, not just not good, but 
kind of bad. 

2235
01:45:20,180 --> 01:45:26,940
And that's the big flaw in him, 
is that he did not teach them to

2236
01:45:26,940 --> 01:45:29,020
rule like he did. 
Now to be fair, all this death 

2237
01:45:29,020 --> 01:45:30,620
in his family and these other 
things that happened, there's a 

2238
01:45:30,620 --> 01:45:34,880
lot that went wrong that kind of
damaged him as a person. 

2239
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:37,560
It's also personal side but 
still it's also possible he 

2240
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,880
might have gone like a 10 year 
span of I don't. 

2241
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:41,920
Know this exactly but I can 
imagine going to 10 year span 

2242
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:43,200
where he did manage the family 
well. 

2243
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:45,600
Yeah, he ruled for so long. 
Yeah, did that. 

2244
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:48,040
Could ebb and flow. 
And I think when he was younger 

2245
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:50,080
he did a pretty good job. 
Like when before his first born 

2246
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:54,030
son, the one that actually got 
older, I mean Daenerys was, was 

2247
01:45:54,030 --> 01:45:57,590
there, they had an egg on 1st 
but that baby died a baby. 

2248
01:45:58,030 --> 01:46:01,270
So the first child they had that
became an adult was Eamon and he

2249
01:46:01,670 --> 01:46:04,710
was going to be the king and he 
was the hand and everybody liked

2250
01:46:04,710 --> 01:46:07,870
him and had he not died, we 
probably would there probably a 

2251
01:46:07,870 --> 01:46:09,510
lot less complaints. 
You wouldn't have this complaint

2252
01:46:09,510 --> 01:46:11,150
about how did you Harris manage 
his family. 

2253
01:46:11,190 --> 01:46:12,670
It would still be a complaint. 
But it wouldn't have. 

2254
01:46:13,660 --> 01:46:16,180
Had a spillover effect on the 
Kingdom the way it did, so it 

2255
01:46:16,180 --> 01:46:18,100
would have been a lot less 
damaging probably. 

2256
01:46:18,100 --> 01:46:22,580
I mean, it's not certain, but 
yeah, also wouldn't have been as

2257
01:46:22,580 --> 01:46:25,900
interesting. 
I don't think George would have 

2258
01:46:25,900 --> 01:46:27,820
could have written such a great 
character without some flaws. 

2259
01:46:27,820 --> 01:46:29,860
Like that's not, it's not very 
realistic have such a perfect 

2260
01:46:29,860 --> 01:46:32,620
person, you know, I wonder if it
maybe it's got interesting. 

2261
01:46:32,620 --> 01:46:33,780
I mean, I'm really going off a 
little. 

2262
01:46:33,780 --> 01:46:37,660
Bit here, but like say that you 
had two or three or four 

2263
01:46:37,660 --> 01:46:40,180
generations of Targaryens who 
managed everything well. 

2264
01:46:41,060 --> 01:46:44,030
What that might have turned into
conquest of. 

2265
01:46:46,150 --> 01:46:49,510
Yeah, they measure too well. 
Yeah, instead of just keeping 

2266
01:46:49,510 --> 01:46:51,630
their own stuff together, cuz 
they keep screwing it up if. 

2267
01:46:51,630 --> 01:46:53,750
They kept it all together. 
Well, they meant it moved out 

2268
01:46:53,750 --> 01:46:55,270
farther. 
Interesting. 

2269
01:46:55,550 --> 01:47:00,630
That is vaguely like one of the 
plot lines that's in Wheel of 

2270
01:47:00,630 --> 01:47:01,750
Time. 
If anyone's watching Wheel of 

2271
01:47:01,750 --> 01:47:03,190
Time, you'll know what I'm 
talking about. 

2272
01:47:03,430 --> 01:47:05,510
Someone that a Kingdom far to 
the West. 

2273
01:47:05,770 --> 01:47:07,610
It's established by people in 
the East that comes back to 

2274
01:47:07,610 --> 01:47:09,410
conquer it. 
He was like, oh, you established

2275
01:47:09,410 --> 01:47:10,610
us, now we're coming back to 
conquer you. 

2276
01:47:11,130 --> 01:47:15,370
So part of the reason I veered 
into this topic is that I'm 

2277
01:47:15,490 --> 01:47:18,570
curious about the plan of 
submission that Vasania went 

2278
01:47:18,570 --> 01:47:20,930
with. 
Did she come with up with this 

2279
01:47:20,930 --> 01:47:23,170
on her own? 
Did Aegon suggest it? 

2280
01:47:23,170 --> 01:47:26,490
Was she more of a mind to burn 
things and and make an example 

2281
01:47:26,490 --> 01:47:27,850
of the veil? 
And they talked it out. 

2282
01:47:27,850 --> 01:47:31,050
And we're like, no, all you need
to do is just this lighter 

2283
01:47:31,050 --> 01:47:33,250
touch. 
On the other hand, could they 

2284
01:47:33,250 --> 01:47:34,610
have even known this was an 
option? 

2285
01:47:34,610 --> 01:47:38,010
Could they have known that just 
flying to the theory and 

2286
01:47:38,010 --> 01:47:40,890
snagging the boy, Could they? 
I mean, why not? 

2287
01:47:40,890 --> 01:47:43,490
Like, otherwise we're saying she
thought of that on the way, You 

2288
01:47:43,490 --> 01:47:45,930
know, like the idea would have 
been just as present of that 

2289
01:47:45,930 --> 01:47:47,970
when she scouted out the castle.
OK, maybe. 

2290
01:47:47,970 --> 01:47:50,090
Yeah, I want. 
To think that maybe a gun 

2291
01:47:50,090 --> 01:47:52,210
already did that. 
But you also think maybe they 

2292
01:47:52,210 --> 01:47:55,130
would have stories at some 
point, someone in the Erie would

2293
01:47:55,130 --> 01:47:57,770
have been like, what's this 
dragon flying around, you know? 

2294
01:47:58,770 --> 01:48:00,930
But maybe she did. 
Maybe she realized, like, you 

2295
01:48:00,930 --> 01:48:02,730
know, I think I can land right 
there. 

2296
01:48:03,250 --> 01:48:06,010
And maybe if she was scouting 
out consistently, which she may 

2297
01:48:06,010 --> 01:48:10,290
have, she might like, you know, 
the boy comes out there at 1:00 

2298
01:48:10,290 --> 01:48:12,330
in the afternoon every day. 
Snag him. 

2299
01:48:12,410 --> 01:48:16,050
All right, I'm going in there 
1:00 in the afternoon and see 

2300
01:48:16,050 --> 01:48:17,730
what happens. 
You know she. 

2301
01:48:17,730 --> 01:48:20,530
Might have come up with it on 
the fly, or maybe even. 

2302
01:48:21,380 --> 01:48:23,380
A gun. 
They had scattered out and knew 

2303
01:48:23,380 --> 01:48:24,980
that too, and told her or told 
her. 

2304
01:48:24,980 --> 01:48:27,140
Find a way out, see what you can
do. 

2305
01:48:27,140 --> 01:48:29,580
You know one more, the other. 
So I I think that there's a 

2306
01:48:29,580 --> 01:48:32,220
possibility that the idea came 
from elsewhere, but I think most

2307
01:48:32,220 --> 01:48:34,580
likely Vasenia just has multiple
modes. 

2308
01:48:34,580 --> 01:48:36,980
She knows how to operate in a 
variety of scenarios and 

2309
01:48:36,980 --> 01:48:41,780
understood that the silken glove
with the implied threat is 

2310
01:48:41,780 --> 01:48:45,060
better than the Iron Gauntlet. 
In this case, I just had another

2311
01:48:45,060 --> 01:48:47,340
option which we also discussed 
in the past, spies. 

2312
01:48:47,830 --> 01:48:49,430
OK, yeah, maybe, someone told 
her. 

2313
01:48:49,510 --> 01:48:51,590
The boy comes out every 
afternoon at 1:00. 

2314
01:48:51,590 --> 01:48:54,750
O'clock you can land right here 
the The Archers will look any 

2315
01:48:54,750 --> 01:48:57,110
other way or or I'll distract 
The Archers. 

2316
01:48:57,110 --> 01:48:59,710
This this possible? 
The area is very remote, so I 

2317
01:48:59,710 --> 01:49:02,910
wonder how such a message could 
have been related, but if 

2318
01:49:02,990 --> 01:49:05,230
they've been planned this for 
months, if they had a spy on the

2319
01:49:05,230 --> 01:49:06,470
inside. 
Yeah, you never know. 

2320
01:49:06,470 --> 01:49:09,070
It's it's absolutely possible 
and it might have been people 

2321
01:49:09,070 --> 01:49:11,190
who wanted it to like let's just
say that. 

2322
01:49:11,390 --> 01:49:14,790
You know, after that those ships
are burned, someone in one of 

2323
01:49:14,790 --> 01:49:18,560
those families like. 
I have family in the Erie too. 

2324
01:49:18,760 --> 01:49:20,480
I don't want that council 
getting burned down. 

2325
01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:24,440
Hey, Aegon, I'll say yeah, I am 
in charge of The Archers at the 

2326
01:49:24,440 --> 01:49:29,400
Erie. 
Yeah, you know, so Nina prefers 

2327
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:34,760
the multifaceted version of 
Assenia than the Aegon or Rainis

2328
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:38,400
or them. 
Conferring led to this decision,

2329
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:41,240
which it still might have, but 
that doesn't mean she was 

2330
01:49:41,240 --> 01:49:43,190
pushing hard for burning them 
all. 

2331
01:49:43,270 --> 01:49:45,670
Either way, this is something 
they could have talked it out 

2332
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:48,950
and realize this was the best 
plan, and it may have even been 

2333
01:49:48,950 --> 01:49:52,750
her idea. 
Regardless, it is maybe arguably

2334
01:49:52,750 --> 01:49:56,390
a bit lucky that their refusal 
to surrender didn't go worse for

2335
01:49:56,390 --> 01:50:00,430
them, because for a lot of these
other nations, not surrendering 

2336
01:50:01,030 --> 01:50:05,030
cost something substantial. 
Like they made an example like 

2337
01:50:05,030 --> 01:50:08,010
you either lost your army, your 
castle was burned. 

2338
01:50:08,010 --> 01:50:09,610
I mean, they did lose their 
Navy, which is pretty 

2339
01:50:09,610 --> 01:50:11,410
substantial, but that was at 
this point. 

2340
01:50:11,410 --> 01:50:14,290
That had been months ago and it 
didn't really hurt them, right? 

2341
01:50:14,290 --> 01:50:15,490
It didn't. 
Yes, it hurt. 

2342
01:50:15,490 --> 01:50:17,290
Their Their constituents. 
Their people. 

2343
01:50:17,330 --> 01:50:20,370
Yeah, right. 
So it could have gotten a lot 

2344
01:50:20,370 --> 01:50:21,170
worse. 
They they were. 

2345
01:50:21,370 --> 01:50:24,890
They were apparently willing to 
stand up to what was coming at 

2346
01:50:24,890 --> 01:50:27,010
least a little bit, if not more.
We don't know. 

2347
01:50:27,690 --> 01:50:30,810
And yeah, it could have gone a 
lot differently and been really 

2348
01:50:30,810 --> 01:50:33,730
bad. 
The area might not have shiny 

2349
01:50:33,730 --> 01:50:37,970
white marble, might be very 
blackened melty, perhaps. 

2350
01:50:38,810 --> 01:50:41,850
So yeah, Ronald had clearly from
the quote about Ronald, like he 

2351
01:50:41,850 --> 01:50:43,370
clearly has no idea what's going
on. 

2352
01:50:43,370 --> 01:50:46,530
He's he has no idea there's some
milk, a conquest going on. 

2353
01:50:46,530 --> 01:50:48,930
He's just like, I want to go for
a ride. 

2354
01:50:49,450 --> 01:50:52,460
And if you put yourself in his 
position, that's pretty awesome.

2355
01:50:52,460 --> 01:50:54,820
Like he gets to ride a dragon. 
Yeah. 

2356
01:50:54,820 --> 01:50:58,780
Yeah, like, that's pretty sweet.
How much do we know about Ronald

2357
01:50:58,780 --> 01:51:00,260
down the line? 
A lot. 

2358
01:51:00,260 --> 01:51:02,420
He'll be around for maybe not a 
lot about his personality, but 

2359
01:51:02,420 --> 01:51:04,220
he's not going to. 
He's going to rule for a while. 

2360
01:51:04,220 --> 01:51:06,820
He's not going to die until 
after Agon dies. 

2361
01:51:06,820 --> 01:51:09,940
I wonder if he, you know, goes 
to the grave. 

2362
01:51:09,940 --> 01:51:12,420
Thinking like I love those 
Targaryens, they let me ride 

2363
01:51:12,420 --> 01:51:14,860
their dragon. 
I wonder if he's thinking like. 

2364
01:51:15,300 --> 01:51:16,980
Man, I'm lucky that wasn't 
worse. 

2365
01:51:17,020 --> 01:51:19,500
Yeah, I realized they were 
really kind of taking advantage 

2366
01:51:19,500 --> 01:51:20,020
of me. 
As you get. 

2367
01:51:20,020 --> 01:51:21,580
I wonder what is good point 
like. 

2368
01:51:21,580 --> 01:51:23,900
At some point he processes it 
and he's like when his olders 

2369
01:51:23,900 --> 01:51:27,140
are thinking about, it's like, 
wait a minute, that was a 

2370
01:51:27,380 --> 01:51:29,980
threat. 
Like it's going to dawn on him 

2371
01:51:29,980 --> 01:51:31,020
someday. 
He's going to wake up and be 

2372
01:51:31,020 --> 01:51:35,100
like, whoa, she could have just 
tossed me off the dragon if he 

2373
01:51:35,180 --> 01:51:37,580
wanted to. 
My mom was like, they smiled at 

2374
01:51:37,580 --> 01:51:40,220
each other for my benefit. 
Yeah, but like, only one of them

2375
01:51:40,220 --> 01:51:41,620
was smiling. 
Genuinely there. 

2376
01:51:42,180 --> 01:51:45,260
It wasn't my mom. 
It was it was the queen. 

2377
01:51:45,540 --> 01:51:50,740
So yeah. 
So one of the other similarities

2378
01:51:50,740 --> 01:51:53,940
between Ronald and Robert is 
they're both murdered. 

2379
01:51:54,180 --> 01:51:55,700
Or. 
Well, Sweet Robin hasn't been 

2380
01:51:55,700 --> 01:51:57,140
murdered yet. 
We just expect it. 

2381
01:51:58,100 --> 01:52:02,420
And Sweet Ronald's murder won't 
happen while he's still a child.

2382
01:52:02,420 --> 01:52:07,610
So either Sweet Robin won't be 
murdered, or he'll be murdered 

2383
01:52:07,610 --> 01:52:09,650
while he's a child and Ronald's 
going to die as an adult. 

2384
01:52:09,650 --> 01:52:11,450
So is that too much of A story 
to get into? 

2385
01:52:11,690 --> 01:52:14,650
Yeah, but it. 
We'll get to it at the end of 

2386
01:52:14,650 --> 01:52:19,490
Agon's reign. 
It's going to be pretty sad Now 

2387
01:52:19,490 --> 01:52:24,210
in this case, when Sweet Robin 
dies, assuming it does happen, 

2388
01:52:24,250 --> 01:52:27,530
it's going to be Harold Harding 
is Harry the heir, right? 

2389
01:52:27,530 --> 01:52:29,610
And he's not even technically an
heir and he has some errand in 

2390
01:52:29,610 --> 01:52:32,610
him, right? 
But in this era there's plenty 

2391
01:52:32,610 --> 01:52:34,170
of other errands. 
So that's another thing that's 

2392
01:52:34,170 --> 01:52:36,690
very different, is like you take
out one errand and all of a 

2393
01:52:36,690 --> 01:52:39,450
sudden it creates this weird 
succession situation. 

2394
01:52:39,450 --> 01:52:42,770
Not necessarily a crisis, but a 
weird scenario where someone 

2395
01:52:42,770 --> 01:52:47,570
that isn't full, a full blown 
errand becomes the the air here,

2396
01:52:47,850 --> 01:52:50,130
there's just a lot of errands. 
So it's not a big deal. 

2397
01:52:52,130 --> 01:52:56,050
And this is where Nina points 
out that this is perhaps the 

2398
01:52:56,050 --> 01:52:57,970
biggest red herring of the 
conquest in terms of 

2399
01:52:57,970 --> 01:53:01,640
foreshadowing for a song Waste 
and Fire, because like I said at

2400
01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:03,280
the beginning, a lot of these 
parallels exist. 

2401
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:07,520
The parallels aren't going to 
make sense in in the long term, 

2402
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:09,080
or when you get down to the 
nittygritty. 

2403
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:15,640
Yes, there's a boy king and a 
boy Lord in both cases, but his 

2404
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:19,920
mother's already dead in the 
case of the Veil or in case of 

2405
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:22,000
Sweet Robin. 
So there's no Shara. 

2406
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:24,800
There's no equivalent. 
Lice is already gone, little 

2407
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:28,920
finger and sensor or nothing 
like Queen Shara as a whole, you

2408
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:32,180
know. 
And like Sansa isn't really 

2409
01:53:32,180 --> 01:53:34,700
looking out for sweet Robin. 
It's kind of she kind of seems 

2410
01:53:34,700 --> 01:53:36,700
to understand that he's going to
die. 

2411
01:53:36,900 --> 01:53:40,860
She doesn't want it to happen, 
but she doesn't have any power 

2412
01:53:40,860 --> 01:53:43,780
to really to stop it. 
She doesn't necessarily like 

2413
01:53:43,780 --> 01:53:47,540
him. 
So she's got sympathy but not a 

2414
01:53:47,540 --> 01:53:49,220
lot of maybe empathy, I don't 
know. 

2415
01:53:49,860 --> 01:53:53,420
So it's. 
And of course, there's no 

2416
01:53:53,580 --> 01:53:57,280
equivalent in terms of I don't 
think Daenerys is going to fly 

2417
01:53:57,280 --> 01:54:00,720
to the top of the Erie and do a 
similar kind of thing because 

2418
01:54:00,720 --> 01:54:03,440
the area is closed already. 
They've already shut it down for

2419
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:05,280
the winter. 
No one lives there right now. 

2420
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:08,720
And if it does get reopened, if 
it does get reopened, it'll be 

2421
01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:11,680
after the war of Against the 
others is over, because they 

2422
01:54:11,680 --> 01:54:13,080
can't go back there until 
winter's over. 

2423
01:54:13,120 --> 01:54:15,320
That's the whole reason they 
left, is because they believe 

2424
01:54:15,320 --> 01:54:17,960
every time winter happens. 
So I wonder if maybe there will 

2425
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:21,360
still be a moment. 
For a different motivation, you 

2426
01:54:21,360 --> 01:54:24,280
know, Yeah, I can't think of a 
good one, but it would be such a

2427
01:54:24,440 --> 01:54:26,400
cool parallel, yeah, good 
imagery to come. 

2428
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:28,400
You see why we we've reached 
this conclusion? 

2429
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:31,320
Because it's like, well, we are 
probably never going to see the 

2430
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:32,920
eerie again in the song. 
Advice and fire. 

2431
01:54:33,160 --> 01:54:35,640
Like we might hear about it, 
like in the dream of spring, it 

2432
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:37,480
might come up, but like a 
chapter there. 

2433
01:54:38,240 --> 01:54:39,640
I don't know. 
It doesn't seem that likely. 

2434
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,440
Seems like we'll hear about And 
whose POV would it even be? 

2435
01:54:42,440 --> 01:54:44,600
Will Sansa go back there? 
I don't think so. 

2436
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:47,690
Seems like she'll stay in the 
north, you know, but who knows? 

2437
01:54:48,010 --> 01:54:50,730
I can easily be wrong. 
George could write a one off 

2438
01:54:50,730 --> 01:54:52,090
POV. 
You never know. 

2439
01:54:52,090 --> 01:54:55,450
I mean he said he's not going to
do big PO V's but a one off POV 

2440
01:54:55,450 --> 01:54:56,970
just to. 
But I don't know, this doesn't 

2441
01:54:56,970 --> 01:54:59,650
seem necessary for us to find 
out what's happening in the 

2442
01:54:59,650 --> 01:55:01,370
veil. 
After all is said and done, it's

2443
01:55:01,370 --> 01:55:03,730
not that key of a location. 
There aren't going to be a lot 

2444
01:55:03,730 --> 01:55:05,810
of characters that were deeply 
invested in that are still 

2445
01:55:05,810 --> 01:55:07,850
living there. 
So yeah, it seems unlikely we'll

2446
01:55:07,850 --> 01:55:11,370
go back there at least in winter
or at least in summer maybe. 

2447
01:55:11,490 --> 01:55:14,010
We'll definitely spend a lot of 
time there in The Winds of 

2448
01:55:14,010 --> 01:55:15,970
Winter because a lot is 
happening there right now. 

2449
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:20,160
We've got exciting things going 
to happen there, but I think the

2450
01:55:20,160 --> 01:55:23,920
dream of spring, it won't be 
much a part of things other than

2451
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:27,120
as a power, but not as far as a 
location for us to have chapters

2452
01:55:27,120 --> 01:55:30,400
featured there. 
Be too busy with the other 

2453
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:31,960
locations. 
That's for sure. 

2454
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:35,560
So the campaign in the Veil is 
unique in that it was one of the

2455
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:37,360
first to begin, yet one of the 
last to be completed. 

2456
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:40,320
It wasn't a protracted siege or 
a drawn out series of 

2457
01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:43,230
engagements. 
It was just a matter of 

2458
01:55:43,230 --> 01:55:44,990
circumstances. 
They paused the campaign and 

2459
01:55:44,990 --> 01:55:47,230
then came back. 
The Dragons were never not a 

2460
01:55:47,230 --> 01:55:51,590
threat, but they had other 
things to do, and it was a way 

2461
01:55:51,590 --> 01:55:54,430
for them to prove their 
supremacy in a different way. 

2462
01:55:54,750 --> 01:55:59,790
Like, yes, here your castle is 
in the open and the fire can 

2463
01:55:59,790 --> 01:56:01,590
devastate it. 
Here it's way up in the 

2464
01:56:01,590 --> 01:56:04,310
mountains in this remote 
location, but we can still get 

2465
01:56:04,310 --> 01:56:07,960
to it, whether it's on open 
ground in the river lands, or 

2466
01:56:07,960 --> 01:56:11,560
way up high in the mountains, or
deep in the storm lands behind a

2467
01:56:11,560 --> 01:56:15,280
lot of trees there. 
None of these are unreachable 

2468
01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:19,120
until until Dorn, of course, 
then finally a place that shows 

2469
01:56:19,120 --> 01:56:22,160
them how it's done. 
But again, no one That example 

2470
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:23,640
has yet to be set, so no one 
can. 

2471
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:26,600
No one can look to that yet. 
It does still show, at least at 

2472
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:28,080
this time when there's only 
three Dragons, it's. 

2473
01:56:28,080 --> 01:56:29,800
Sort of a limitation. 
I was thinking about this when 

2474
01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:32,200
we're thinking about the idea of
them taking Cassidy Rocket. 

2475
01:56:32,750 --> 01:56:34,950
I said I think they could do it,
but it would take a long time, 

2476
01:56:34,950 --> 01:56:37,950
have a lot of casualties, like 
if the three Dragons were just 

2477
01:56:37,950 --> 01:56:41,110
like on a rotation of like just 
breathing fire into different 

2478
01:56:41,110 --> 01:56:45,070
entrances or whatever, you know,
and but while they're doing 

2479
01:56:45,070 --> 01:56:49,540
that, some Navy attacks. 
Dragonstone, right? 

2480
01:56:49,620 --> 01:56:51,940
Yeah, yeah. 
Like they had to pull away from 

2481
01:56:51,940 --> 01:56:53,700
the Erie to go deal with the 
Field of Fire. 

2482
01:56:53,700 --> 01:56:57,140
So even while they're trying to 
soul cast of rock with three 

2483
01:56:57,140 --> 01:56:59,940
Dragons and maybe eventually can
do it, they're not managing. 

2484
01:56:59,940 --> 01:57:02,220
They're not going after Dorn, 
they're not managing the North. 

2485
01:57:02,220 --> 01:57:05,300
They're not protecting from 
pirates or all this other stuff.

2486
01:57:05,300 --> 01:57:08,540
So you know what else that will 
be? 

2487
01:57:08,540 --> 01:57:11,460
Another wrinkle for George to 
have to have considered the idea

2488
01:57:11,460 --> 01:57:12,820
of having them have children 
already. 

2489
01:57:13,300 --> 01:57:16,120
If the Targaryens already had 
children at this point, those 

2490
01:57:16,120 --> 01:57:17,360
children would have to be 
protected. 

2491
01:57:17,920 --> 01:57:21,160
That would be their like 
Achilles heel. 

2492
01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:23,320
Achilles heel is if someone 
snoops. 

2493
01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:26,440
In and gets the dragon stone and
steals their children and holds 

2494
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:28,800
them hostage like, hey, look, 
you give this conquest up or 

2495
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:32,480
your children die. 
Which might be what the the 

2496
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:35,400
threat that got Aagon to stop 
going after Dorn, by the way. 

2497
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:39,320
We'll come back to that when we 
see Aagon concede this conquest 

2498
01:57:39,320 --> 01:57:40,880
of Dorn, but that's that's ten 
years away. 

2499
01:57:41,190 --> 01:57:43,870
It could be a dilemma for Danny 
too, that she only has three 

2500
01:57:43,870 --> 01:57:45,350
Dragons. 
That even if she can take them 

2501
01:57:45,350 --> 01:57:48,590
on the deep one area, then the 
other areas become vulnerable. 

2502
01:57:48,950 --> 01:57:52,110
Yeah, as much as the Robert, 
Aaron, Ronald, Aaron parallel 

2503
01:57:52,110 --> 01:57:55,470
is, is maybe only surface level,
the Daenerys Aegon parallel is 

2504
01:57:56,110 --> 01:57:59,470
that. 
So that's a strong deep parallel

2505
01:57:59,470 --> 01:58:03,150
with a lot of them having kids, 
which could be Achille Seal if 

2506
01:58:03,150 --> 01:58:04,350
Danny. 
Does it once again. 

2507
01:58:04,350 --> 01:58:07,270
I feel like that's a long way 
for the story to go. 

2508
01:58:08,060 --> 01:58:11,060
But I also don't know how George
can solve this story in a short 

2509
01:58:11,100 --> 01:58:13,660
period of time. 
So Yep, Yep, Yep. 

2510
01:58:14,420 --> 01:58:18,220
Last we heard, Windsor Winner is
going to be the biggest of the 

2511
01:58:18,220 --> 01:58:22,500
book so far, which makes sense 
for a lot of reasons, but we'll 

2512
01:58:22,500 --> 01:58:28,540
see about that. 
Our trivia answer for today, the

2513
01:58:28,540 --> 01:58:34,180
question was what castle exists 
with the same name in two places

2514
01:58:34,180 --> 01:58:38,790
in Westeros? 
The answer is Oakenshield. 

2515
01:58:39,430 --> 01:58:42,630
There is an Oakenshield, one of 
the four shield islands, and 

2516
01:58:42,630 --> 01:58:44,630
there is an Oakenshield on the 
wall. 

2517
01:58:45,710 --> 01:58:47,430
One of the castles of the wall 
is called Oakenshield. 

2518
01:58:47,910 --> 01:58:51,790
George R Martin, his fandom of 
Lord of the Rings, almost 

2519
01:58:51,790 --> 01:58:56,070
certainly the culprit here. 
Culprit I use, of course, 

2520
01:58:56,150 --> 01:58:59,710
humorously because he is a huge 
fan of Lord of the Rings and 

2521
01:59:00,630 --> 01:59:06,550
Thorin Oakenshield is one of the
luminary big characters of that 

2522
01:59:07,110 --> 01:59:09,630
fandom, that series. 
So almost certainly that's the 

2523
01:59:09,630 --> 01:59:12,790
reference there. 
Do you know how, when, how early

2524
01:59:12,790 --> 01:59:14,310
or how far apart those two 
names? 

2525
01:59:14,310 --> 01:59:15,710
Came up. 
I wonder what the chances are 

2526
01:59:15,710 --> 01:59:18,150
that George just didn't realize 
he'd already used it or made it 

2527
01:59:18,150 --> 01:59:19,630
a conscious decision to do it 
again. 

2528
01:59:19,670 --> 01:59:21,750
I'm guessing there's a very good
chance he didn't realize he 

2529
01:59:21,750 --> 01:59:24,810
duplicated it. 
But yeah, he might have just 

2530
01:59:24,810 --> 01:59:27,330
done it for fun, done it twice, 
and it's something is a good 

2531
01:59:27,330 --> 01:59:29,490
happen in a world you ever made.
Those castles didn't. 

2532
01:59:29,490 --> 01:59:31,850
Know someone hundreds of miles 
away, hundreds of years ago, 

2533
01:59:31,850 --> 01:59:33,290
made some of the castles? 
Absolutely. 

2534
01:59:33,450 --> 01:59:35,330
Yeah. 
I mean, it's a pretty basic name

2535
01:59:36,130 --> 01:59:39,290
or didn't care, you know? 
Yeah, yeah, I agree, you know. 

2536
01:59:39,330 --> 01:59:41,490
Almost every state has a 
Fayetteville, you know. 

2537
01:59:45,370 --> 01:59:51,090
Next week we have our last Storm
episode with Jim McGee and it's 

2538
01:59:51,090 --> 01:59:53,650
already been recorded. 
Asheya is working on the editing

2539
01:59:53,650 --> 01:59:55,850
this week. 
It will not be a live stream, 

2540
01:59:55,850 --> 01:59:58,210
but it will be released at the 
same usual time. 

2541
01:59:58,210 --> 02:00:03,090
It is a Patrons only episode, so
this is our call to you to join 

2542
02:00:03,250 --> 02:00:09,290
Patreon or our Spotify 
equivalent, which is a 

2543
02:00:09,370 --> 02:00:13,130
recurring. 
Voluntary donation that you 

2544
02:00:13,330 --> 02:00:16,690
pledge through either of those 
services, either Patron or 

2545
02:00:16,850 --> 02:00:19,490
Spotify. 
You can also send donations 

2546
02:00:19,490 --> 02:00:21,730
through PayPal through our 
website. 

2547
02:00:21,770 --> 02:00:24,130
If you do that, we will send all
our bonus episodes to you. 

2548
02:00:24,330 --> 02:00:27,490
I know a couple of you have done
that recently and those episodes

2549
02:00:27,490 --> 02:00:32,410
will be sent to you shortly. 
So that's my pitch there. 

2550
02:00:32,410 --> 02:00:35,770
We would love to have you on 
board with our with our Patreon.

2551
02:00:35,770 --> 02:00:38,170
We have a lot of bonus episodes,
so you won't just get this new 

2552
02:00:38,170 --> 02:00:41,900
one, but I've lost count. 
Now it's over 20 episodes that 

2553
02:00:41,900 --> 02:00:44,380
we have in our bonus catalog and
we're going to continue to add 

2554
02:00:44,380 --> 02:00:49,380
to them regularly. 
So sign up now, get get on those

2555
02:00:49,380 --> 02:00:53,540
bonuses and all the other perks 
that come with being a Patreon, 

2556
02:00:53,540 --> 02:00:58,100
such as our trivia contest 
that's coming up on Tuesday. 

2557
02:00:58,660 --> 02:01:01,380
And once a month we do other 
games, as I said at the 

2558
02:01:01,380 --> 02:01:04,900
beginning. 
So sign up, join, have some fun.

2559
02:01:05,140 --> 02:01:08,380
We mentioned a few episodes 
today that are relevant to 

2560
02:01:09,260 --> 02:01:12,740
episodes we've done before, 
things that you could stay 

2561
02:01:12,740 --> 02:01:16,060
immersed with if you're not 
ready to leave Westeros just yet

2562
02:01:16,060 --> 02:01:18,660
at the end of this episode. 
House Valarian and House Celtic 

2563
02:01:18,660 --> 02:01:23,900
are came up a lot today, as did 
our episode on Dragonstone would

2564
02:01:23,900 --> 02:01:26,220
be relevant. 
So as well our episode on 

2565
02:01:26,220 --> 02:01:28,140
Valerian. 
And since we're going to be 

2566
02:01:28,140 --> 02:01:31,260
talking about The Reach and Old 
Town pretty soon, you might want

2567
02:01:31,260 --> 02:01:33,500
to check out our Under the 
Dragons episodes on House 

2568
02:01:33,500 --> 02:01:37,790
Hightower, which come parallel 
to some of the events that are 

2569
02:01:37,990 --> 02:01:40,310
being dealt with in the 
Conquest, at least part of that 

2570
02:01:40,310 --> 02:01:42,950
timeline. 
Anyway, that's it. 

2571
02:01:43,190 --> 02:01:45,470
Thanks as well to anyone who 
showed up today. 

2572
02:01:45,470 --> 02:01:49,150
Thanks to Nina for her great 
notes that we always use quite a

2573
02:01:49,150 --> 02:01:50,630
bit of in our episodes. 
Check out good 

2574
02:01:50,630 --> 02:01:54,750
queenalley.tumblr.com for more 
of her takes on quite a few 

2575
02:01:54,750 --> 02:01:56,390
things. 
A Song of Ice and Fire related. 

2576
02:01:57,310 --> 02:02:01,350
Thanks to Joey, Jesse and Bran 
and Michael Clarfeld for their 

2577
02:02:01,350 --> 02:02:05,900
excellent visual and audio 
additions to our show. 

2578
02:02:05,900 --> 02:02:08,380
That's our intro, our music, our
maps. 

2579
02:02:09,060 --> 02:02:13,380
Those guys are Mvp's as well as 
our good friend the engineer. 

2580
02:02:13,700 --> 02:02:17,460
And I just want to say again how
happy I am and how fun it was to

2581
02:02:17,460 --> 02:02:19,740
have Sean right here. 
Instead, we got Rita in the 

2582
02:02:19,740 --> 02:02:21,820
studio over here. 
You can't see her, but she's 

2583
02:02:21,820 --> 02:02:23,620
here. 
You also can't see Asheya, but 

2584
02:02:23,620 --> 02:02:29,980
you already knew she was here. 
And we got a reference to W Riz.

2585
02:02:31,650 --> 02:02:33,370
W Riz. 
Yeah, his new Sean would 

2586
02:02:33,370 --> 02:02:34,250
appreciate the Riz. 
Riz. 

2587
02:02:37,530 --> 02:02:41,050
That's it everyone. 
We'll see you next time for more

2588
02:02:41,810 --> 02:02:43,330
Valar re read us.