1
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:13,120
Given Old Town has existed for 
so, so very long, it's surely 

2
00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:18,360
under gone a vast number of 
unaccounted for changes, swings 

3
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,920
and turns of fortune. 
But I I find it hard to believe 

4
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,330
that this era doesn't stand out 
in terms of overall interest. 

5
00:00:26,330 --> 00:00:30,410
The early phase of today's 
episode covers Megor before 

6
00:00:30,410 --> 00:00:34,090
doing a complete reverse into 
the reign of Jerry's both far 

7
00:00:34,090 --> 00:00:38,490
longer and far more prosperous. 
It's said that while Agon 

8
00:00:38,490 --> 00:00:41,090
conquered the Seven Kingdoms, it
was Jerry's who truly brought 

9
00:00:41,090 --> 00:00:42,650
them together, and I mostly 
agree with that. 

10
00:00:42,650 --> 00:00:46,170
Dorn is still an exception at 
this point in history, but to 

11
00:00:46,170 --> 00:00:49,450
Jerry's discredit, he was one of
the few Targarian Kings to not 

12
00:00:49,450 --> 00:00:52,330
attack or even plan to attack 
Dorn. 

13
00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:55,840
This meant substantial changes 
for a lot of the realm, adopting

14
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,560
similar laws and custom, lots 
more standardizing of things 

15
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,400
like coins and taxes and other 
things. 

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00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,480
But that took time. 
Of course, Jerry's reign was by 

17
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,840
far the longest, 55 years, and 
there are a lot of moving parts 

18
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,800
to consider, but I strongly 
suspect that this was very good 

19
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,240
for Old Town and the high 
towers. 

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00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,320
Hard to imagine that it wasn't. 
It's possible they had vessel 

21
00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:20,840
dispensation, special favors, 
tax breaks, whatever. 

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00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,180
You you know, stuff that happens
behind closed doors, handshake 

23
00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:26,020
deals. 
But for the most part, it's 

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00:01:26,020 --> 00:01:29,260
straightforward, right? 
Peace brings prosperity, 

25
00:01:29,580 --> 00:01:33,220
especially if you're already 
prosperous. i.e. when you have a

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gigantic financial head start, 
massive income, etcetera. 

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00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:41,220
Jerry's famously built roads, 
which clearly helped Old Town 

28
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like boosting commerce. 
Jerry's endeavor to make King's 

29
00:01:43,860 --> 00:01:46,780
Landing as impressive as Old 
Town as well, which reminds us 

30
00:01:46,780 --> 00:01:50,890
that Old Town still, even in 
this time, was more impressive 

31
00:01:50,890 --> 00:01:53,530
than King's Landing because 
Jerry's tried to reverse that. 

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He also did things like raise 
taxes on luxury goods to pay for

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00:01:57,010 --> 00:01:59,210
such product projects. 
So there would have been 

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00:01:59,210 --> 00:02:01,890
grumbling from the rich and even
more from the Super rich, 

35
00:02:01,890 --> 00:02:03,490
perhaps, but like the high 
towers. 

36
00:02:03,730 --> 00:02:06,010
But it's hard to imagine that 
even with that, they didn't come

37
00:02:06,010 --> 00:02:08,250
out way ahead, generally 
speaking, from the peace and 

38
00:02:08,250 --> 00:02:10,690
infrastructure improvements. 
It also doesn't mean they didn't

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00:02:10,690 --> 00:02:12,770
scheme to get more, like just 
because they're not getting a 

40
00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:15,090
lot doesn't mean they won't try 
to get even more. 

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00:02:15,090 --> 00:02:17,330
I mean, that's kind of how greed
works. 

42
00:02:17,370 --> 00:02:20,510
And you know, entitlement works 
differently when you're born 

43
00:02:20,950 --> 00:02:23,470
obscenely rich to a scale we 
can't even fathom. 

44
00:02:23,910 --> 00:02:27,350
And of course, there's a lot of 
different moving parts within 

45
00:02:27,350 --> 00:02:30,030
the Hightower itself. 
There's different personalities.

46
00:02:30,030 --> 00:02:34,110
The family, as we've been taught
discussing, is very large, and 

47
00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:36,750
that's usually true depending 
even despite what area you're 

48
00:02:36,750 --> 00:02:38,630
looking at. 
So there's a lot of days here 

49
00:02:38,630 --> 00:02:40,990
when talking about they might 
see it differently. 

50
00:02:41,790 --> 00:02:43,950
The fact that Jerry's, Allison 
and their people help lift the 

51
00:02:43,950 --> 00:02:46,710
average person up several 
notches on the social ladder 

52
00:02:47,070 --> 00:02:49,510
also would have helped the 
economy in ways that created 

53
00:02:49,510 --> 00:02:51,390
more purchasing power for the 
commoners. 

54
00:02:51,390 --> 00:02:53,910
And they would spend more at the
markets markets at the high 

55
00:02:53,910 --> 00:02:57,870
towers own entirely or part of. 
Not to mention, we're told the 

56
00:02:57,870 --> 00:03:01,350
population of the Seven Kingdoms
supposedly doubled during this 

57
00:03:01,350 --> 00:03:03,630
55 year period. 
He's landing quadrupled. 

58
00:03:03,630 --> 00:03:05,350
So Old Town? 
I don't know, but maybe even 

59
00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:07,550
more than doubled. 
We think of commerce now is, you

60
00:03:07,550 --> 00:03:11,310
know, iPhones and Ford trucks or
whatever the commerce back then 

61
00:03:11,310 --> 00:03:13,140
would have mostly been. 
Food. 

62
00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:14,860
It would have been bread, that's
the thing. 

63
00:03:14,860 --> 00:03:17,860
And there might have been some 
greed driving some of that, and 

64
00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:21,020
some powerful houses that were 
well established, gaining 

65
00:03:21,020 --> 00:03:23,940
greater prosperity from it. 
But the average person is not 

66
00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:26,300
starving to death. 
That's huge a benefit that's 

67
00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:28,620
hard to measure and and the high
towers would benefit from that. 

68
00:03:28,620 --> 00:03:30,620
Just like that's the thing when 
you control or have a piece of 

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00:03:30,620 --> 00:03:33,380
just about everything, whenever 
something good happens, you 

70
00:03:33,380 --> 00:03:35,980
benefit from it, even you know 
if someone else benefits, you do

71
00:03:35,980 --> 00:03:37,700
too. 
And no matter who's benefiting, 

72
00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:39,180
the high towers are as well. 
Like it's like. 

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00:03:39,780 --> 00:03:43,210
So that's part of what happens 
when you own, you know, most of 

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00:03:43,330 --> 00:03:45,770
everything. 
And there's another thing. 

75
00:03:45,770 --> 00:03:48,810
Sometimes it's hard to truly 
understand the cause and effect 

76
00:03:48,810 --> 00:03:52,530
of food availability and 
population, that it's likely 

77
00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:55,730
that when food became more 
available, that's what caused 

78
00:03:55,730 --> 00:03:58,010
the population to boom. 
People weren't starving to 

79
00:03:58,010 --> 00:04:00,650
death, they weren't spending as 
much energy, barely surviving, 

80
00:04:00,650 --> 00:04:02,970
so they could spend more energy 
growing their families. 

81
00:04:02,970 --> 00:04:08,130
And that's like a piece of the 
real world we could not sustain.

82
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,520
The population the Earth has 
now, if not for technological 

83
00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,160
advancements, 100 years ago with
seeds and fertilizer and stuff 

84
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,399
like that, they just weren't 
able to produce enough food. 

85
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,200
And big governments of Russia 
and the United States kind of 

86
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,920
recognized that and endeavor to 
like, what do we need to do? 

87
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,040
Let's get better soil. 
Let's get better seeds. 

88
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,000
Because the population is 
growing. 

89
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,560
They recognize that and built 
infrastructure around it. 

90
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,000
Yeah. 
And I'm sure the high towers had

91
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,400
similar lower tech versions of 
these problems, having enough 

92
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,330
space to manage their managing 
not just the city but the land 

93
00:04:38,330 --> 00:04:40,930
around it, which would include 
farm lands and and rural 

94
00:04:40,930 --> 00:04:43,450
situations as well. 
So yeah, any business does 

95
00:04:43,450 --> 00:04:46,450
better when the number of people
who can afford to shop there 

96
00:04:46,610 --> 00:04:49,090
increases. 
That's a rising tide floats all 

97
00:04:49,090 --> 00:04:51,210
boats and the high towers own a 
lot of the boats. 

98
00:04:51,570 --> 00:04:53,370
Another good example of what 
you're saying there, Sean, is 

99
00:04:53,410 --> 00:04:55,410
the Citadel announces when 
winter has come officially, 

100
00:04:55,410 --> 00:04:57,770
who's going to be one of the 
first to know the high towers. 

101
00:04:57,770 --> 00:05:01,290
And that gets they get ahead on 
the change to grain prices. 

102
00:05:01,810 --> 00:05:05,250
Like they get to be the first 
one to know that, Yep, I mean, 

103
00:05:05,250 --> 00:05:07,700
other people can sense that 
winners coming and use their own

104
00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:10,540
Maester and be like Okay. 
It's not official, but it's 

105
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:12,900
getting colder. 
But still like that, they still 

106
00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:14,980
have the inner lane in this 
race, right? 

107
00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:16,700
Yeah, that's something to think 
about too. 

108
00:05:16,700 --> 00:05:20,540
We've talked about the indirect 
potential power that Old Town 

109
00:05:20,540 --> 00:05:23,700
gets from the Ravens being 
centered out of there when they 

110
00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:26,500
send a message out, even if they
send a Raven to everyone. 

111
00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:29,740
They don't, like, instantly send
all the Ravens at the same 

112
00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:32,100
moment. 
Waves like, all right, here's 30

113
00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:34,060
Ravens. 
You've got 30 scribes have 30 

114
00:05:34,060 --> 00:05:35,300
messages. 
Have the 30 Ravens. 

115
00:05:35,540 --> 00:05:36,500
Let those go. 
All right. 

116
00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:38,660
And we got 30 more. 
And it might take a day or two 

117
00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:41,900
just to get all that out. 
Never mind the time it takes for

118
00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:44,700
the Ravens to fly. 
Well, do you think Old Town is 

119
00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:47,900
going to send the 1st 30 Ravens 
to the north or the 1st 30 

120
00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:51,020
Ravens to the Citadel is going 
to send them to Old Town? 

121
00:05:51,020 --> 00:05:53,420
And they're vasts, right? 
So not only do they get it 

122
00:05:53,420 --> 00:05:56,480
first, it's less. 
Distance to travel, they get to 

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00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,720
respond quicker. 
There's a lot of value and 

124
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,840
advantage, yeah. 
Now some of these things they 

125
00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:03,960
may not fully control, just 
influence, but that's the same, 

126
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,920
you know, little column, a, 
little column B. 

127
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,920
And when it matters most, that's
when they would make sure their 

128
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,600
control is exercised. 
And of course, this period of 

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00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,040
growth under King Gary's 
flattened out. 

130
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,000
Eventually King Deseris who will
also get into today, did not 

131
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,160
make improvements so much as he 
just kept the status quo and 

132
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,080
allowed things to deteriorate. 
And well, you we, we've talked 

133
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,980
about that in some ways, but 
we'll focus on the Hightower 

134
00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:29,460
side of that, meaning Old Town, 
not just Otto and Allison, but 

135
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:33,220
we certainly talk about Otto and
Allison as well, all them and 

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00:06:33,220 --> 00:06:36,700
all that and more on this 
episode of History of West Gross

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00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:40,100
podcast. 
Hey everyone, welcome back to 

138
00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:42,980
another episode. 
We're excited to be working our 

139
00:06:42,980 --> 00:06:45,820
way through this very 
interesting period of Hightower 

140
00:06:45,820 --> 00:06:48,220
history. 
It will, of course, involve a 

141
00:06:48,220 --> 00:06:51,930
lot of Targaryen stuff as well, 
because it always does. 

142
00:06:51,930 --> 00:06:54,530
Except unless we're talking 
about the time period before the

143
00:06:54,530 --> 00:06:55,610
Targaryens. 
But we're not. 

144
00:06:55,610 --> 00:06:59,610
So lots of Targaryens, lots of 
Hightowers, lots of other stuff.

145
00:06:59,610 --> 00:07:02,010
Should be good now, Sean, you 
got a drink today? 

146
00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:04,450
Actually, you got a nice Mormont
shirt there. 

147
00:07:04,450 --> 00:07:06,090
We're black and green again. 
Look at that. 

148
00:07:06,490 --> 00:07:08,290
I've got straight out of Old 
Town today. 

149
00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:10,410
Without even coordinating, we 
ended up doing it. 

150
00:07:10,410 --> 00:07:15,850
Yeah, that's why I say I do want
to show my loyalty to House 

151
00:07:15,850 --> 00:07:18,810
Hightower by representing green,
even if it is a Mormont shirt 

152
00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:22,350
where there is a. 
At least one tie that I know of 

153
00:07:22,350 --> 00:07:26,230
to High Tower with Minesse 
married former tie anyway, but 

154
00:07:26,230 --> 00:07:28,750
it did exist to happen. 
And I do. 

155
00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:31,590
I think I might have a very 
similar drink to what I had last

156
00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:33,550
week. 
This is once again the Oh no no.

157
00:07:33,550 --> 00:07:37,030
This is a watermelon bang mixed 
with the green naked drink and 

158
00:07:37,030 --> 00:07:39,150
just throw them out. 
Dude that sounds less that 

159
00:07:39,470 --> 00:07:41,510
sounds less weird. 
That one I might actually like, 

160
00:07:42,510 --> 00:07:44,950
meaning I would actually be 
willing to try it, unlike a lot 

161
00:07:44,950 --> 00:07:48,750
of them. 
Thanks to our good friend Nina, 

162
00:07:49,150 --> 00:07:52,270
AKA Good Queen Alley for her 
advice and notes. 

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00:07:52,310 --> 00:07:54,390
As usual. 
If you check out her blog, Good 

164
00:07:54,430 --> 00:08:01,470
Queen Alley with one a 1L1A. 
Yeah okay Good Queen Alley with 

165
00:08:01,750 --> 00:08:06,550
1l@tumblr.com. 
Today's Our most recent post is 

166
00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:10,310
on the Lady Paramounts. 
Which regions have had, or 

167
00:08:10,310 --> 00:08:12,310
kingdoms have had Lady 
Paramounts ruling in their own 

168
00:08:12,310 --> 00:08:13,950
right? 
Of course not. 

169
00:08:14,190 --> 00:08:16,110
Not including Doran, of course, 
because we know they've had 

170
00:08:16,110 --> 00:08:18,330
plenty. 
So yeah, check that post out if 

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00:08:18,330 --> 00:08:20,370
you want to learn more about 
that. 

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00:08:21,130 --> 00:08:23,450
This episode was voted on by 
patrons. 

173
00:08:24,130 --> 00:08:26,650
Patrons have selected Craster 
for next week, so we'll be 

174
00:08:26,650 --> 00:08:31,050
getting into some Crasterly Rock
business and having fun with 

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00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:33,450
that and creeping ourselves out 
in the process. 

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We'll also mention at the end of
this episode some additional 

177
00:08:37,490 --> 00:08:40,730
topics from our back catalog. 
I was at pack catalog. 

178
00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:44,710
Yeah, that's kind of true back 
catalog that include episodes 

179
00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:48,510
that are related to this one, 
ones that overlap or feature. 

180
00:08:48,510 --> 00:08:50,910
We have rabbit holes in this one
that lead to other episodes, so 

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00:08:50,910 --> 00:08:52,670
we'll point those out at the 
end, as we often do. 

182
00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:56,750
And to our trivia question. 
So I goofed and didn't read the 

183
00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:59,310
answer to last week's trivia 
question at the end. 

184
00:08:59,310 --> 00:09:00,830
So let's start with that before 
the new one. 

185
00:09:01,190 --> 00:09:06,990
Last week's was what person did 
Meg or burn in order to sat an 

186
00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:09,630
ambush for more poor fellows 
whom he then also killed? 

187
00:09:09,910 --> 00:09:11,840
And who led that secondary 
assault? 

188
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,120
The person burned was Toxie Jane
Poor. 

189
00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,960
And that's funny and confusing 
because, well, not because she 

190
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,120
was burned. 
That's not funny. 

191
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,800
But she's a leader of the poor 
fellows, and her name is Jane 

192
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,320
Poor, but her name is spelled 
Poor POORE. 

193
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,360
Not POOR, but it makes it look 
like Jane Poole, because from a 

194
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,040
distance when you're reading it,
Yeah. 

195
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,440
Anyway, and the person who led 
the assault that was actually a 

196
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,990
trap was Sir Horace Hill. 
Yes, poor Sir. 

197
00:09:42,990 --> 00:09:46,510
Horace Hill didn't work out too 
well for him that he fell into 

198
00:09:46,510 --> 00:09:50,350
that trap set by Megworth. 
This week's trivia question. 

199
00:09:50,910 --> 00:09:54,350
The Lord of the High Tower takes
on seven titles. 

200
00:09:54,350 --> 00:09:56,910
It's seven because of course 
it's seven. 

201
00:09:56,910 --> 00:09:58,590
They probably were like I only 
got 5 titles. 

202
00:09:58,590 --> 00:10:02,710
We need two more to make it 7. 
Six of those titles are well the

203
00:10:02,710 --> 00:10:06,430
Lord of the High Tower, Lord of 
Old Town, Lord of the Port, 

204
00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:10,860
Defender of Old Town, Defender 
of the Citadel, Voice of Old 

205
00:10:10,860 --> 00:10:15,180
Town, and what other one. 
It doesn't contain the word Old 

206
00:10:15,180 --> 00:10:19,460
Town, Defender, or even Lord, 
but it does contain the words of

207
00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:21,580
the so yes, it's blank of the 
blank. 

208
00:10:21,740 --> 00:10:24,860
Fill in the blanks. 
I thought I knew this right 

209
00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:26,540
away, but then I second guessed 
myself. 

210
00:10:26,540 --> 00:10:29,780
So I'll I'll say it to the end 
to tell you my guest, Lord of 

211
00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:31,540
the Port was the one they just 
tacked on. 

212
00:10:31,540 --> 00:10:35,900
Like we need a 7th one. 
You know, it's like Lord of Old 

213
00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:38,740
Town, which is a port like what 
you are. 

214
00:10:38,740 --> 00:10:40,790
Yeah, like that's repetitive 
man. 

215
00:10:40,830 --> 00:10:43,590
But you know, they like 
repetition in their titles 

216
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:45,510
because it allows them to be 
longer. 

217
00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:50,110
So Hightower allegiance to Megor
had not exactly paid off, though

218
00:10:50,110 --> 00:10:52,830
it's it's fair to say they might
have wanted to leave that 

219
00:10:52,830 --> 00:10:55,670
arrangement much sooner and just
didn't have a way to get out of 

220
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:59,070
it and certainly didn't want 
that exit to happen the way it 

221
00:10:59,070 --> 00:11:02,310
did with Syreese's death. 
But Megor being Megor, what? 

222
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:04,110
What could they do? 
They didn't have a lot of 

223
00:11:04,110 --> 00:11:06,550
choices. 
So the second-half of Megor's 6 

224
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:09,390
year reign did present them with
a few choices actually. 

225
00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:12,860
Since Megor's grip on the Iron 
Throne started to slip and that 

226
00:11:12,860 --> 00:11:15,980
maybe gave them some room to 
maneuver, he had fewer and fewer

227
00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:18,900
willing allies, and that made it
easier for the high towers to 

228
00:11:19,260 --> 00:11:21,020
maybe not come at him but to 
stand. 

229
00:11:21,020 --> 00:11:24,060
Back and just get out of the way
and let other people deal with 

230
00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:25,580
him. 
Or hope, hope the thing blows 

231
00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:29,260
over, or hope he just dies, or 
he changes or something. 

232
00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:31,540
Especially given the great 
distance between King's Landing 

233
00:11:31,540 --> 00:11:32,820
and Old Town. 
And maybe they thought they 

234
00:11:32,820 --> 00:11:35,780
could just hang back. 
Now that's not a great distance 

235
00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:37,900
for Valerian, but it is, You 
know, It's not a, it's not a 

236
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:41,480
quick jaunt, but it would be 
hard for him to bring his whole 

237
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,160
army there. 
And even more important for the 

238
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,320
time being, he had bigger 
problems and higher priorities 

239
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,480
than the high towers just doing 
nothing. 

240
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,120
So that's not exactly going to 
draw his attention immediately. 

241
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,880
As we pointed out near the end 
of the last episode as well, the

242
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,520
Faith Militant wouldn't be fully
pacified until after Megor. 

243
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,000
It would take conciliation for 
that. 

244
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,850
So all this time we've got 
warrior sons, poor fellows doing

245
00:12:06,850 --> 00:12:08,450
their thing, killing people on 
the roads. 

246
00:12:08,450 --> 00:12:10,690
There's a lot of unnamed people,
probably not important enough to

247
00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:13,330
make it in the history books, 
but still causing problems. 

248
00:12:13,770 --> 00:12:17,970
And those problems would be 
particularly severe around Old 

249
00:12:17,970 --> 00:12:20,650
Town, I think, because it's just
a population center, just more 

250
00:12:20,650 --> 00:12:24,410
people that are poor fellows. 
And warrior sons is more 

251
00:12:24,850 --> 00:12:27,930
activity in that area. 
I mean, it's just like wondering

252
00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:31,580
if how much activity is going to
be in an in a very sparsely 

253
00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:34,260
populated area. 
Well, you know, probably less 

254
00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:36,500
than in a place that has more, 
all other things being equal. 

255
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:39,340
So let's get into what the 
Hightower was up to as Meg or 

256
00:12:39,340 --> 00:12:42,700
fought the warriors, sons and 
poor fellows and did all sorts 

257
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:45,460
of other cruel and dirty 
business in the second-half of 

258
00:12:45,460 --> 00:12:49,380
his reign, which ran from the 
years 45 to 48 A/C. 

259
00:12:50,260 --> 00:12:53,060
Now, it should be noted that the
position of small council was 

260
00:12:53,060 --> 00:12:54,780
not nearly as prominent as it 
became. 

261
00:12:55,550 --> 00:12:58,830
Harris was the first to set the 
example of kings really actually

262
00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:01,110
listening to and heating the 
small council before it was kind

263
00:13:01,110 --> 00:13:04,030
of like, I don't know if they 
were, I wouldn't maybe go so far

264
00:13:04,030 --> 00:13:09,110
as to call them placeholders or 
figureheads, but early targeting

265
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:10,750
Kings didn't listen to them very
much, let's put it that way. 

266
00:13:10,750 --> 00:13:13,710
Especially Meg or even Amy's 
didn't listen to very much and 

267
00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:18,240
he was kind of, you know, a 
softy egg on more like pretend. 

268
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,040
When he did listen, he made sure
everyone knew. 

269
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,520
He listened. 
He was like, yes, that was a 

270
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,880
really good idea. 
I'm listening. 

271
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,280
But a lot of times he didn't. 
So he really flaunted the times 

272
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,600
when he did. 
So you could also say the 

273
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,040
earliest targeting kings wielded
more power in some ways, though 

274
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,520
less than others, because the 
realm wasn't as united, they 

275
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,760
couldn't call up. 
Everyone is easily. 

276
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,480
The laws were different. 
Some things, things weren't as 

277
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:41,960
organized. 
The roads weren't built. 

278
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,320
So yeah, other things changed. 
Really having a more? 

279
00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:51,670
Competent, established council 
probably actually do rule more 

280
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:55,630
and better with that, right? 
Like maybe you on some level, 

281
00:13:55,630 --> 00:13:58,830
you're holding more power to 
yourself, but you just can't 

282
00:13:58,830 --> 00:14:01,590
physically communicate with as 
many people or send out as much 

283
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:04,230
messages or taking as much 
information without. 

284
00:14:04,390 --> 00:14:07,190
And so even if there was an 
intense by some of these kings 

285
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:11,070
to rely on their council 
members, if the positions hadn't

286
00:14:11,070 --> 00:14:13,870
been established enough that 
people they needed to interact 

287
00:14:13,870 --> 00:14:16,460
with respected their authority. 
Right. 

288
00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:18,860
Or they hadn't built certain 
inroads or channels of 

289
00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:21,100
communication. 
Even if the king wanted to lean 

290
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:23,820
on them, they didn't have the 
right answer or couldn't contact

291
00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:27,460
the right person. 
Over time these positions would 

292
00:14:27,460 --> 00:14:29,460
get stronger, I would think, and
there there could be some 

293
00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:31,100
personalities involved. 
But. 

294
00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:32,620
But I guess I'm trying to make 
the point. 

295
00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:35,900
Even if there was a king who 
wanted to rely on them, their 

296
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:38,900
positions might be too new to be
as valuable as they got down the

297
00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:40,060
road either. 
That's a good point. 

298
00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:44,860
Master Whispers doesn't have as 
deep a developed Whisperers 

299
00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:46,580
network. 
Like their spider web isn't as 

300
00:14:46,580 --> 00:14:48,500
large yet. 
There's no predecessor for them 

301
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:50,100
to have taken over for. 
Yeah, that's a great point. 

302
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:53,220
The master coin doesn't have it 
in with the Old Town's tax 

303
00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:57,180
collector or the the Old Town 
isn't reporting all the taxes 

304
00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:59,620
they're collecting yet and 
etcetera. 

305
00:14:59,620 --> 00:15:02,220
That's a great segue to the flip
side of this. 

306
00:15:02,220 --> 00:15:05,660
If you don't have that sort of 
establishment, and the king 

307
00:15:05,660 --> 00:15:09,020
wields more power directly, even
if the realm isn't in great 

308
00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:13,370
shape, soft power is even 
stronger because you can get in 

309
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:15,290
the King's ear about something 
and tell him, hey, can we do 

310
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:16,890
this, can we do that? 
And the King's like, sure. 

311
00:15:16,890 --> 00:15:18,290
Well the king can just make it 
happen. 

312
00:15:18,450 --> 00:15:20,450
If he has to go through his 
counsel or go through other 

313
00:15:20,450 --> 00:15:23,690
levels, or if he's not as just 
able to just wield the level of 

314
00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:27,130
authority, then that soft power 
has to be spread around to 

315
00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:29,730
multiple decision makers and 
it's harder to get things done 

316
00:15:29,730 --> 00:15:32,090
through. 
Just, hey buddy, you're the one 

317
00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:34,850
with the finger on the button. 
Push it for me right? 

318
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:38,090
Like things like that, Meg. 
Or with Cerise. 

319
00:15:38,590 --> 00:15:40,670
When when? 
When Cerise was right there, 

320
00:15:40,670 --> 00:15:42,070
maybe they could get things out 
of him. 

321
00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:43,470
Maybe. 
Doesn't seem like that worked 

322
00:15:43,470 --> 00:15:44,990
out too well, but they may have 
hoped for more. 

323
00:15:45,750 --> 00:15:48,230
If you don't have to win a 
consensus or build a coalition, 

324
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:50,310
you just have to go to the guy 
in charge and get him to do what

325
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:52,390
you want. 
If you can do that, that's 

326
00:15:52,390 --> 00:15:54,550
easier. 
And of course easier said than 

327
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:57,550
done to have the King's ear. 
But if you have it, Oh my, 

328
00:15:57,550 --> 00:16:02,590
that's really powerful, Aegon. 
Like we said, he did listen, but

329
00:16:02,590 --> 00:16:06,350
less to his counsel and more to 
people he trusted, like Corey's 

330
00:16:06,750 --> 00:16:08,150
his half brother and his 
sisters. 

331
00:16:08,630 --> 00:16:11,270
But he did listen quite a bit to
the House High SEPTA. 

332
00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:15,150
Amy's clearly didn't, as we saw,
which was kind of odd and Megor 

333
00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:18,750
even less Megor did have 
eventually the high lickspittle 

334
00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:23,110
appointed who was like the 
reverse of that. 

335
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:25,750
He listened to the high 
lickspittle, did what Megor 

336
00:16:25,750 --> 00:16:28,550
wanted, rather than, you know, 
Megor doing what the high 

337
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:30,790
lickspittle wanted. 
In other words, Megor came 

338
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:32,870
before the Targaryen kings 
really started listening to 

339
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:36,060
their small councils, but after 
they had stopped listening to 

340
00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:38,420
the High Second. 
So it's like this in between. 

341
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:42,340
Jerry's did both, but Megor was 
like the pinnacle of just not 

342
00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:44,740
taking advice from anyone who 
matters. 

343
00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:47,660
They would really start 
listening to High Seconds again 

344
00:16:47,860 --> 00:16:50,860
after Megor. 
And Megor really only listened 

345
00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:52,260
to one person at all, as far as 
we know. 

346
00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:55,420
And that was Bysenia. 
But she died the year before 

347
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,240
this time period we're talking 
about. 

348
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,800
She died in 44, and this is 45. 
Megor was like The Walking 

349
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,360
example of what Tywin gave to 
Joffrey, reminding him of Aries.

350
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,079
Like anyone who has to remind 
people they are king isn't the 

351
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,000
king. 
And Megor had to do a lot of 

352
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,520
reminding. 
And it usually was involved 

353
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,319
killing people. 
And he was good at killing 

354
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,000
people. 
You know, it took a while for it

355
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,480
to stop. 
He rode Balerian. 

356
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,800
You know, Tywin's example 
perhaps is better suited for a 

357
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,960
dragonless world. 
Like, yeah, but if Balerian, 

358
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,960
maybe you can tell people you're
the king, at least for a little 

359
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,839
while. 
I suppose also like it's maybe 

360
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,360
Tywin's. 
It's not as simple as how Tywin 

361
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,920
puts it. 
Like maybe at first when you're 

362
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,440
not the king and you have to 
tell people you are, you're not.

363
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,800
But eventually, after you kill a
bunch of people and you have 

364
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,040
this dragon, they're like, okay,
I guess you're the king now, but

365
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,760
if you keep telling them that 
you're the king, it will 

366
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,400
eventually play. 
Tywin might argue that, look, 

367
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,160
Megor's reign only lasted 6 
years. 

368
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,440
Like did it really work? 
Like how it did, but not for 

369
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,960
very long. 
So that's why soft power has 

370
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,840
more longevity. 
A lot of times, you know, and 

371
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,690
hard power, you know, brutality 
in your face, like make you do 

372
00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:59,650
what you want, make you do what 
I want tends to be shorter term.

373
00:17:59,970 --> 00:18:03,050
And of course, to Harry's great 
example of that, like night and 

374
00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:04,970
day, these rains. 
So the high towers, if they had 

375
00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:07,410
forgotten this lesson, this 
lesson that we've just 

376
00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:10,410
discussed, that which would be 
awkward because they have such a

377
00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:13,090
long history and many lessons of
the past could be learned, they 

378
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:15,890
have books in the Citadel that 
could tell them these lessons in

379
00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:17,730
their city. 
Mind you, you would think that 

380
00:18:18,050 --> 00:18:20,210
this proximity to this knowledge
might help, but you know, he 

381
00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:21,970
doesn't always work that way. 
People have books on their 

382
00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:25,570
shelves they've never read. 
They would have been reminded if

383
00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:28,730
they had forgotten that Meg or 
that things can go these ways. 

384
00:18:29,130 --> 00:18:31,050
And while Meg or continued his 
wars against the faith, the 

385
00:18:31,050 --> 00:18:33,610
Hightower continued to wait. 
The waiting policy seemed to be 

386
00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:35,730
the same adopted by a lot of 
great houses. 

387
00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:38,650
A lot of them just kind of stood
back and we're like, well, let's

388
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:42,490
just try to avoid anything. 
We can just stand back and wait 

389
00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:44,570
for this to play out. 
But we hear that there were a 

390
00:18:44,570 --> 00:18:47,330
number of rebel leaders. 
They work with each other 

391
00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:50,010
independently, but sometimes 
work together. 

392
00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:51,290
Sometimes they didn't like each 
other. 

393
00:18:51,290 --> 00:18:53,340
You know, leaders not getting 
along. 

394
00:18:53,340 --> 00:18:54,900
It's that happens with the 
nobility as well. 

395
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:58,780
Last episode we pointed out that
the Red Dog, Joffrey Doggett, 

396
00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:01,300
had Sir Morgan Hightower 
murdered on the road to the 

397
00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:02,860
Honey Hole. 
That was one of many murders 

398
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:05,860
carried off by his people, and 
his power had only grown since 

399
00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:07,860
since then. 
More to the point, we're told 

400
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:13,780
that Casually Rock and River Run
were passively involved in this.

401
00:19:13,780 --> 00:19:17,660
Like maybe even meeting. 
There's a there's a note that 

402
00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:22,910
the Red Dog was invited to River
Run to as a guest during all 

403
00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:25,630
this. 
So they were they were neither I

404
00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:28,910
eager to support Megor nor eager
to upset the rebels. 

405
00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:30,270
They were. 
There's a lot of people doing 

406
00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:33,670
this tightrope walk and the high
towers were perhaps the most 

407
00:19:33,670 --> 00:19:38,070
prominent of this, because the 
Faith Militant have a lot of 

408
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:41,350
their heart is based in Old 
Town, the High Step and faith in

409
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:42,550
Old Town. 
Even though there's been a split

410
00:19:42,550 --> 00:19:45,270
there, it's happening right on 
their front step. 

411
00:19:46,910 --> 00:19:50,060
The small folk help the rebels, 
so fighting the rebels meant 

412
00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:52,660
fighting your own small folk. 
If you're a noble like, how do 

413
00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:54,300
you? 
It's super difficult to manage 

414
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,140
this. 
Like having their hands in a lot

415
00:19:57,140 --> 00:20:01,700
of pots gives Old Town high 
towers a lot of value and 

416
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,660
maneuverability, but it also 
makes them more susceptible. 

417
00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:07,740
To conflict and contradiction. 
And especially when two 

418
00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:10,780
different industries or houses, 
they have alliances to go 

419
00:20:10,780 --> 00:20:12,620
against each other and they're 
like, well, which one do we 

420
00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:15,060
support? 
Which one do we abandon? 

421
00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:16,820
Do we help both? 
We try to make them. 

422
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:18,900
We try to create peace between 
them. 

423
00:20:19,310 --> 00:20:22,790
So yeah, if, if, if they are 
making guerrilla attacks on your

424
00:20:22,790 --> 00:20:25,790
people, right, why provoke that?
Why? 

425
00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:27,870
If they're if they're not 
assassinating members of your 

426
00:20:27,870 --> 00:20:32,070
house, why get involved and then
all of a sudden become one of 

427
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:34,630
their targets? 
And if Megor is not coming for 

428
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:36,190
you, Mike, why make him your 
target? 

429
00:20:36,190 --> 00:20:39,750
So the best thing for a lot of 
houses just to just try to be as

430
00:20:39,790 --> 00:20:42,870
uninvolved as possible. 
If they liked Megor, they might 

431
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:46,350
have stood for him, you know, if
he had been a good king or if he

432
00:20:46,350 --> 00:20:50,510
had been a not that king or king
with a future, they might have 

433
00:20:50,790 --> 00:20:53,710
saw the opportunity. 
But mayor, I mean just he didn't

434
00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:56,510
look like he had a future. 
He didn't look like it was 

435
00:20:56,550 --> 00:20:58,710
honorable, like there was no, 
not a lot of reason to support 

436
00:20:58,710 --> 00:21:01,870
him unless they felt threatened.
That he had only fear. 

437
00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:03,030
Yeah, that's right. 
You're right. 

438
00:21:03,030 --> 00:21:04,870
Yeah, he there. 
If you have fear and other 

439
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:07,390
things, you can work with that. 
Like that's like using Tywin as 

440
00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:08,750
an example. 
People are scared of Tywin. 

441
00:21:08,910 --> 00:21:11,310
But he's not. 
That's not his only note. 

442
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:15,550
He's got other arrows in his 
quiver, other tools in his box, 

443
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,160
apart from the persecution of 
the faithful and these many 

444
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,040
executions and tortures and 
those continue to escalate. 

445
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,880
By the way, it wasn't like a 
steady stream. 

446
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,760
Megor got worse and worse with 
this. 

447
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,080
He didn't have an air of his 
body. 

448
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,520
That's what I mean when I talk 
about him not having much of A 

449
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,600
future. 
Like his line, his bloodline 

450
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,320
looked like it might end and the
other Targaryen branches would 

451
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,360
pick that up. 
So you can see why some people 

452
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:41,080
might be like, well, maybe we 
should be with these guys, the 

453
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,320
ones that look like they have a 
future. 

454
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,520
Only the problem being, what if 
Megor just kills them? 

455
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,230
You know, So that still was an 
entire, a reasonable 

456
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:51,190
possibility. 
And he might not only go after 

457
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:54,150
you for siding with them or 
against him, but he might go 

458
00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:56,830
after the people that you're 
siding with, that you think 

459
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:58,470
there's a future. 
And so then you're really stuck 

460
00:21:58,470 --> 00:22:00,190
after that, right? 
And the high towers are in a 

461
00:22:00,470 --> 00:22:03,110
more dangerous spot because 
makers already shown a 

462
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:06,510
willingness to come there. 
He's already invested in them. 

463
00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:09,270
So if he, he might take it more 
personally if they turn on him 

464
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:11,830
versus someone he doesn't have a
lot of prior dealings with now. 

465
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:15,100
Of course, he's unlikely to take
any sort of turning against him 

466
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,380
well, but it might be worse for 
someone that he had a prior 

467
00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:19,980
arrangement with. 
He might take that more 

468
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:23,060
personally, or see that as more 
embarrassing, and thus for his 

469
00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:25,300
image, he needs to strike 
immediately. 

470
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:29,780
So what was that I was saying 
earlier about Megor's counsel in

471
00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:33,500
finger quotes here? 
This batch of fellows that were 

472
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:35,590
just more lick spittles like 
this? 

473
00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:38,190
There was the high lick spittle 
and the small lick spittles, I 

474
00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:41,190
guess you could say this batch 
of fellows suggested he take a 

475
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:42,590
fourth wipe. 
They're like, yeah, you have 

476
00:22:42,590 --> 00:22:44,230
three, Why not go four? 
Why not? 

477
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:45,950
You need an air. 
I mean, that's more important 

478
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:47,950
than what anyone's going to say 
about you having all these 

479
00:22:47,950 --> 00:22:49,870
wives, right? 
You think about putting another 

480
00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:52,510
cat in a wall. 
I'm thinking about 3 or 4 going.

481
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:56,950
That's just in for so Megor 
figured his odds would be better

482
00:22:57,070 --> 00:23:00,070
if he took three more wives. 
Like, well, if one more would 

483
00:23:00,070 --> 00:23:04,390
help, why not three more? 
You goofball, why not go 7? 

484
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:06,150
This is the He Who stopped at 
six. 

485
00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:09,310
I mean, come on Meg, or? 
Why not Go 77? 

486
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:10,950
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. 
Why not? 

487
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:14,750
He could have, like, played it 
off like I'm marrying the seven.

488
00:23:14,750 --> 00:23:17,430
Like each one of these women 
represents one of the seven. 

489
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:18,510
I'm marrying all the. 
I don't know. 

490
00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:19,910
I don't know if that would have 
actually been done. 

491
00:23:19,910 --> 00:23:22,350
But it's the same kind of logic 
again. 

492
00:23:22,350 --> 00:23:25,870
Air quotes, finger quotes around
logic employed by Victorian when

493
00:23:25,870 --> 00:23:30,350
he was doing his thing with the 
burning and the trying to please

494
00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:32,810
several different pantheons all 
at once. 

495
00:23:32,810 --> 00:23:35,050
Like yeah, that's this is that 
kind of thinking. 

496
00:23:35,970 --> 00:23:39,610
So his counsel also suggested 
one of the wives be Reyna like 

497
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:45,170
his his own niece, the one whose
brother husband he just killed. 

498
00:23:45,370 --> 00:23:49,730
So this would enable him to 
further claim dominion over the 

499
00:23:49,730 --> 00:23:52,610
children of Amy's i.e., the ones
who could usurp him. 

500
00:23:52,610 --> 00:23:54,410
The other Targaryen branch that 
was out there. 

501
00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:57,570
He wanted to make sure he only 
married women who had children 

502
00:23:57,570 --> 00:24:00,800
already though. 
I E women of quote the finger 

503
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,920
quotes again proven fertility, 
right? 

504
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,000
Reina did have kids. 
Number two was Jane Westerling. 

505
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,400
Not to be confused with Rob's 
Jane Westerling and Eleanor 

506
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,320
Costane Jane. 
Westerling first of her name, 

507
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,160
and we've only carved up a small
slice of the Meg or pie here, so

508
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,800
the third wife, here's the one 
that we want to focus on the 

509
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,080
most, the third of the Black 
Brides, as they came to be 

510
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,830
called, quote. 
More troubling was the case of 

511
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:34,110
Lady Eleanor of House Costane, 
the wife of Sarah Theo Balling, 

512
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:37,270
a landed Knight who had fought 
for the King in his last 

513
00:24:37,270 --> 00:24:39,310
campaign against the four 
fellows. 

514
00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:45,310
Though only 19, Lady Eleanor had
already given balling three sons

515
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:47,550
when the King's eye fell upon 
her. 

516
00:24:47,910 --> 00:24:51,230
The youngest boy was still at 
her breast when Sarah Theo was 

517
00:24:51,230 --> 00:24:55,070
arrested by the King's guard and
charged with conspiring with 

518
00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:59,670
Queen Alyssa to murder the King.
And placed the boy to Harris on 

519
00:24:59,670 --> 00:25:02,710
the Iron Throne. 
Though Balling protested his 

520
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:07,310
innocence, he was found guilty 
and beheaded the same day King 

521
00:25:07,310 --> 00:25:11,390
Megor gave his widow seven days 
to mourn in honor of the gods, 

522
00:25:11,710 --> 00:25:14,590
then summoned her to tell her 
they would marry. 

523
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:21,310
Like, geez, this is just 
unbelievably authoritarian and 

524
00:25:21,310 --> 00:25:24,150
cruel and just You really don't 
think there's going to be 

525
00:25:24,150 --> 00:25:27,510
consequences for this? 
Megor, I mean, yeah, so 

526
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:30,230
obviously. 
Like murder Kidnap. 

527
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:33,070
Yeah, And. 
And the precedent being said 

528
00:25:33,070 --> 00:25:36,190
that he will murder kidnap you 
and your daughter. 

529
00:25:36,550 --> 00:25:39,070
Yeah, really bad. 
And balling is like balling 

530
00:25:39,070 --> 00:25:41,710
comes from a nobody house. 
Like this is a landed nightly 

531
00:25:41,710 --> 00:25:44,230
House of the storm lands. 
Like, oh, you're conspiring to 

532
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:46,790
put Jerry's on the throne like 
he is. 

533
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:48,710
Like how? 
Like With what? 

534
00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:52,580
With what means you know and if 
you know your Westerosi 

535
00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:55,500
geography and or noble house 
hierarchies, you probably 

536
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:58,340
guessed why this is relevant to 
us when we're talking about the 

537
00:25:58,340 --> 00:26:00,380
high towers. 
Because the costanes are direct 

538
00:26:00,380 --> 00:26:03,700
vassals of the high tower. 
So this taste stealing, 

539
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:08,140
kidnapping, raping of Eleanor 
Costane is taking one of their 

540
00:26:08,140 --> 00:26:09,900
vassals and you know as the 
hunter you're supposed to 

541
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,060
protect your vassals. 
But of course, the High Towers 

542
00:26:12,060 --> 00:26:13,420
aren't going to do anything 
here. 

543
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,760
They can't interfere. 
They're not going to stand up 

544
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,520
for for Eleanor Costain. 
They didn't stand up for Cerise 

545
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,760
Hightower. 
They're not going to stand up 

546
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,200
for her. 
But it may be caused some 

547
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,400
discussion, right? 
Lord Martin is still the Lord at

548
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,400
this time. 
He might have gone to talk to 

549
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,120
Lord Costain, or Lord Costain 
made it. 

550
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,400
Come talk to him and confer 
like, what are we going to do? 

551
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,640
Like Cerise. 
Now, Eleanor, this king is just 

552
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,800
stealing our wives and daughters
and making them marry her 

553
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,920
without any consent or any 
compliance. 

554
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,460
Just so they had this awful 
thing in common. 

555
00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:45,940
Martin. 
It wasn't Martin Sirise wasn't 

556
00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:49,220
Martin's daughters and sister. 
But still, you know, did they 

557
00:26:49,220 --> 00:26:52,580
discuss any possible options? 
They discussed maybe, like maybe

558
00:26:52,580 --> 00:26:54,140
we could murder the king. 
Did it? 

559
00:26:54,140 --> 00:26:57,380
Did it go that far, I wonder? 
It's entirely possible they did 

560
00:26:57,380 --> 00:26:59,460
nothing right? 
They're just afraid of Megor and

561
00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:02,380
wanted to just hope that it 
stopped, you know, hopefully get

562
00:27:02,380 --> 00:27:04,420
away with all this. 
But it should be said that Megor

563
00:27:04,420 --> 00:27:06,900
and the two Kings guard 
responsible for what happened to

564
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:09,140
Cerise did not escape karmic 
justice. 

565
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:11,540
As we'll see shortly, there was 
reprisals. 

566
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,160
We're not sure from whence they 
came, but they were pretty 

567
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,880
nasty. 
Worse, Megor just took Eleanor's

568
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,360
three children. 
Well, maybe not worse, but to 

569
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,840
add to it all, to add make the 
whole thing worse, Megor sent 

570
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Eleanor's three children to be 
fostered elsewhere. 

571
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,360
Like you're no longer their 
mother, you're they're going to 

572
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,080
be raised elsewhere. 
You're basically starting over. 

573
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,120
For Megor, one went to High 
Garden One notable notably, none

574
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:35,040
of them went to the Three towers
where that's house costing seat 

575
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,960
and none of them went to the 
High Tower. 

576
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,720
Now also, we should point out, 
we have seen three towers in the

577
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,520
books. 
Sam and Gilly see it from the 

578
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:44,720
cinnamon win as they're passing 
by. 

579
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,280
Like, hey, there's a three 
towers of house. 

580
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,160
Costane. 
But high tower and Costane knew 

581
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,440
anyone could be next like Meg or
well, like they're thinking, 

582
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,760
well, this isn't going to work. 
He's probably not going to have 

583
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,880
children. 
You know, maybe maybe they kind 

584
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,200
of hoped he dead so he would 
stop. 

585
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,440
But they had to consider the 
possibility that, like, this 

586
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,840
dude's infertile or something, 
he's not going to have any kids 

587
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,200
and he's just going to keep 
trying. 

588
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,040
And when will this end? 
You know, like, who's going to 

589
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,390
Yeah, who's next as his rain 
forward As we said. 

590
00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:11,790
As we said earlier, it became 
clear that he was losing 

591
00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:14,630
control, not gaining his 
brutality. 

592
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:17,670
Was was too often too random. 
There wasn't a lot of good to 

593
00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:18,830
point to. 
As we said he feared was his 

594
00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:22,670
only real trick the one trick 
pony 1 Trick dragon. 

595
00:28:23,030 --> 00:28:25,070
Some might have put up with it 
otherwise if he had. 

596
00:28:25,310 --> 00:28:29,710
He was also building roads and 
infrastructure but murdering a 

597
00:28:29,710 --> 00:28:33,150
lot of people that are like, Oh 
no, it's not good, but. 

598
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:35,630
I would have. 
People would have, you know, 

599
00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:37,030
people would have accepted it, I
think. 

600
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:39,740
But he didn't even bring peace, 
though. 

601
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:41,980
Like that's one thing you can 
hope from a strongman leader. 

602
00:28:41,980 --> 00:28:44,020
Like, everyone's afraid of him, 
so everyone behaves like, Nope, 

603
00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:46,860
he's basically making war on his
own country. 

604
00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:50,060
I mean, yeah, So what the high 
towers and custains and others 

605
00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:52,380
of the world might have realized
is that the cold, possibly 

606
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:54,300
ruthless way to get rid of Meg, 
or was just to let him. 

607
00:28:54,620 --> 00:28:57,180
Do continue to do nothing. 
What's that old saying? 

608
00:28:58,020 --> 00:29:00,660
Never interrupt your enemy while
they're making a mistake. 

609
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,480
And if Megor's going to implode,
just let it happen, You know, 

610
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,440
Just stay out of it. 
Don't get don't burn your finger

611
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,760
on the stove while the book is 
finishing the job. 

612
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,520
You know, that's not an old 
saying. 

613
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,840
Like, never interrupt. 
Your. 

614
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,200
Anything. 
I'm making a mistake because the

615
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,440
Megor supporters just start to 
fretter away and it mostly just 

616
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,080
became the ones he could 
physically intimidate, the ones 

617
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,200
who were close to him that 
couldn't get away, like people 

618
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,960
in the Crown lands and all that.
He had tortured and killed his 

619
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,340
nephew Vasaris by this time. 
That's that's kids slaying on 

620
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:31,740
top of all the other stuff. 
I mean, come on. 

621
00:29:31,780 --> 00:29:36,860
Which also told the rest of the 
Lords of Westeros that this guy 

622
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:39,780
murdered a member of the other 
Targaryen branch. 

623
00:29:39,780 --> 00:29:42,340
So maybe they've had enough too.
Maybe they're actually finally 

624
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:44,420
willing to stand up to him now 
that he's done that. 

625
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:47,220
Because of course, no one's 
going to stand up to Megor 

626
00:29:47,580 --> 00:29:51,140
without having some Dragons on 
their side. 

627
00:29:51,140 --> 00:29:53,180
Like, because otherwise those 
Dragons are going to back Megor 

628
00:29:53,180 --> 00:29:54,780
and it's like, well, we're 
really screwed. 

629
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:57,340
Because that's the thing you 
sort of that. 

630
00:29:57,780 --> 00:30:00,420
The reason you sit back and let 
them make mistakes, I guess in 

631
00:30:00,420 --> 00:30:02,740
this scenario at least, is 
because eventually they'll have 

632
00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:05,460
upset enough people that you'll 
have enough allies. 

633
00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:10,060
You can be confident making a 
move, but if none of your allies

634
00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:13,100
have Dragons, it's a different 
scenario. 

635
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:17,060
You know, even like Brin went to
say no chance, no choice. 

636
00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:20,140
It's really hard, even someone 
who's like, I don't know, 

637
00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:22,580
honorable or whatever in the 
face of Dragons. 

638
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:25,690
It's hard to to make the move. 
So that's what I feel like 

639
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:28,250
they're really banking on is 
eventually the other Targaryens 

640
00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:33,290
are going to be so frustrated 
with what he's doing and or he's

641
00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:35,490
going to start doing things to 
them that there will suddenly be

642
00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:37,850
Dragons and play on the other 
side. 

643
00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:38,930
That's the thing that needs to 
happen. 

644
00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:42,890
One of the very few factors in 
human existence that can 

645
00:30:42,890 --> 00:30:47,130
overcome mortal fear is 
zealotry. 

646
00:30:47,410 --> 00:30:49,890
If you have a just an 
overwhelming powerful belief in 

647
00:30:49,890 --> 00:30:54,340
the gods, you believe that 
you're going to a better place 

648
00:30:54,340 --> 00:30:58,700
afterwards or that what the gods
will reward you or something. 

649
00:30:59,140 --> 00:31:01,260
That's one thing that can 
overcome a fear of someone like 

650
00:31:01,260 --> 00:31:03,860
Megor, and that's exactly where 
we're at. 

651
00:31:03,860 --> 00:31:05,940
That's why Megor was fighting 
against the faithful. 

652
00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:07,580
And partly there's a lot of 
reasons, but one of the main 

653
00:31:07,580 --> 00:31:10,740
ones is they were the only ones 
willing to fight him, right? 

654
00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:12,860
Other males is like we're afraid
of Megor, but the faith they're 

655
00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:14,380
not. 
So here's a quote. 

656
00:31:15,630 --> 00:31:18,710
That the town of Stony Septimoon
denounced King Megor's wedding 

657
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:21,790
plans, and hundreds of town 
folks cheered wildly, but few 

658
00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:24,030
others dared raise their voices 
against his grace. 

659
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:27,590
High Septon took ship at Old 
Town, sailing to King's Landing 

660
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:31,310
to perform the marriage rights. 
On a warm spring day in the 47th

661
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:35,070
year after the conquest, Megor 
Targaryen took three wives in 

662
00:31:35,070 --> 00:31:37,830
the ward of the Red Key. 
Now that is still the high licks

663
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:39,790
pedal. 
Of course, One of the many 

664
00:31:39,790 --> 00:31:44,190
reasons why this is notable is 
Megor killed 12 septons before 

665
00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:46,790
finding one who would marry him 
to Tiana Pentos, his third wife.

666
00:31:46,790 --> 00:31:50,590
So this time they just did it. 
Then like no one, they knew what

667
00:31:50,590 --> 00:31:52,670
he was willing to do and this is
the high licks Biddle, who was 

668
00:31:52,670 --> 00:31:55,910
already like a yes man, so of 
course he didn't have to kill 

669
00:31:55,910 --> 00:31:58,030
anybody. 
But it goes to show how his 

670
00:31:58,030 --> 00:32:02,630
intimidation had, in the short 
term, caused these sort of side 

671
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:04,230
effects. 
One of the 12th. 

672
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:07,150
Seasons like, a lot, by the way.
Yes, right. 

673
00:32:05,390 --> 00:32:07,550
Some of those were. 
Great. 

674
00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:10,110
That 11th a dude still? 
Yeah. 

675
00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:13,310
Getting up. 
Like, man, they better, they 

676
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:16,790
better put his name somewhere. 
Like write that guy's name down.

677
00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:20,990
Yeah, brave man at the 10th 129.
Yeah, like even the first one, I

678
00:32:20,990 --> 00:32:23,430
mean, but but progressively more
brave. 

679
00:32:23,470 --> 00:32:26,270
Yeah, yeah. 
So one of the ways Meg or kept 

680
00:32:26,270 --> 00:32:28,750
his new wives in line was by 
threatening their existing 

681
00:32:28,750 --> 00:32:30,510
children. 
You know, there's that fear 

682
00:32:30,510 --> 00:32:32,870
method again. 
He also disinherited his nephew 

683
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:35,790
Jerry's, which obviously that 
didn't work in the long run, and

684
00:32:35,790 --> 00:32:37,790
named Reyna's daughter Ereya as 
his heir. 

685
00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:40,590
Reyna was him being one of her, 
being one of his new wives. 

686
00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:46,900
However, he had area's twin 
sister Ray Ella sent to Old Town

687
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:50,580
to be raised to the SEPTA. 
So Ray Ella is now in the 

688
00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:52,420
possession of the High Towers. 
Effectively. 

689
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,220
Somewhere around this time, Lord
Martin passed and the Lordship 

690
00:32:56,260 --> 00:32:58,460
of the Hightower passed to Lord 
Donald. 

691
00:32:58,460 --> 00:33:01,620
Lord Donald is an extremely 
interesting character, probably 

692
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:03,580
the most interesting Hightower 
Lord we cover in these two 

693
00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:06,740
episodes. 
There's a strong chance Lord 

694
00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:09,960
Martin was a bit of an outlier 
and that he didn't have lots of 

695
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,560
children or any children because
Lord Donald wasn't young when he

696
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,400
inherited. 
And the way we do the math here,

697
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,600
I won't go run through the the 
calculations, but it Serese was 

698
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,840
only in her early 40s and Martin
and Serese were siblings. 

699
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,000
So Lord Donald doesn't. 
He seems like he's too old to be

700
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,960
Martin's child, and it's 
possible that he was his uncle 

701
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,720
or a cousin or something like 
that. 

702
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,370
So either way, if he was Donald 
was Martin's uncle, that would 

703
00:33:37,370 --> 00:33:38,730
have been. 
That means he would have been 

704
00:33:38,730 --> 00:33:41,690
Lord Manfred's brother. 
Either way, Donald became known 

705
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:44,810
as the delayer. 
So this notion of wait and see 

706
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:49,210
and biting your time, like he 
may have come up in a time where

707
00:33:49,210 --> 00:33:51,930
that was the norm because they 
were waiting through Megor's 

708
00:33:51,930 --> 00:33:53,570
reign. 
And so he kind of grew up in an 

709
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:56,610
environment where that strategy 
was prominent and he saw the 

710
00:33:56,610 --> 00:33:58,210
value of it and continued to use
it. 

711
00:33:59,050 --> 00:34:04,550
Which raises the question of did
Lord Hightower, either Donald or

712
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:07,270
Martin, attend this wedding of 
the Black Brides? 

713
00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:10,830
I don't know. 
I mean, surely he had informers 

714
00:34:10,830 --> 00:34:12,350
there. 
If not, so they they definitely 

715
00:34:12,350 --> 00:34:15,190
heard about what happened. 
I mean, Eleanor Costain being a 

716
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:18,230
Costain, being one of their 
vassals, like there's be pretty 

717
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:21,110
easy to hide spies in her 
entourage or just anywhere, you 

718
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:23,190
know? 
Or it doesn't necessarily even 

719
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:25,989
have to be covert. 
He could have sent the Lord a 

720
00:34:26,110 --> 00:34:28,230
prominent person. 
He He might have recognized. 

721
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:29,350
We need to have a presence 
there. 

722
00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:30,949
Plus, I want to know what's 
going on. 

723
00:34:31,610 --> 00:34:35,530
So you seven people, you know, 
take the house guard and the 

724
00:34:35,530 --> 00:34:38,330
steward of this house and the 
the son of this Lord and you 

725
00:34:38,330 --> 00:34:41,010
guys go and say I wasn't feeling
well. 

726
00:34:41,010 --> 00:34:43,770
It's possible they sent no 
actual high towers to be like, 

727
00:34:43,770 --> 00:34:45,170
well, we don't want to give you 
anyone. 

728
00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:47,850
Tape is a hostage because they 
know Megor's game and well, we 

729
00:34:47,850 --> 00:34:50,090
have to go make an appearance, 
but we don't want to give him an

730
00:34:50,090 --> 00:34:54,969
opportunity. 
So both Eleanor Costane and Jane

731
00:34:54,969 --> 00:34:57,130
Wesley became pregnant, like 
pretty quickly. 

732
00:34:57,410 --> 00:35:01,650
And Megor became, we see, the 
rare side of Megor. 

733
00:35:01,650 --> 00:35:04,370
He got really happy and he 
showed his opposite. 

734
00:35:04,370 --> 00:35:05,570
Extreme. 
It showed that he was actually 

735
00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:10,210
capable of magnanimity, just 
didn't last very long. 

736
00:35:10,210 --> 00:35:14,050
He gave honors, wealth and stuff
to the families and the brides. 

737
00:35:14,050 --> 00:35:17,890
So like Lord Costay all of a 
sudden is like, all right now 

738
00:35:17,890 --> 00:35:21,370
he's giving me stuff. 
Okay, I don't like this, but 

739
00:35:21,370 --> 00:35:22,850
I'll take this. 
You know, I don't like this 

740
00:35:22,850 --> 00:35:24,930
arrangement but I'm getting some
some benefit out of it. 

741
00:35:25,930 --> 00:35:28,890
And but this turned to horror 
really quickly in all ways. 

742
00:35:28,890 --> 00:35:31,290
Queen Alice Haraway had already 
delivered a terrifying dead 

743
00:35:31,290 --> 00:35:34,930
child and Queen Jane's child was
an abomination as well. 

744
00:35:35,410 --> 00:35:38,810
She died as well and when word 
spread twice was too much. 

745
00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:41,370
She got multiple cases of this 
and then it became a third one. 

746
00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:44,250
So people start talking about 
Meg or being cursed like openly.

747
00:35:44,410 --> 00:35:47,850
It's easy to see why he had 
broken nearly every taboo and 

748
00:35:47,850 --> 00:35:49,810
law of behavior and faith and 
custom. 

749
00:35:50,010 --> 00:35:51,970
So it's really easy to be like 
Yep that's what happens to Ken 

750
00:35:51,970 --> 00:35:56,010
slayers and ancestors and 
killers of the faith and Septon 

751
00:35:56,010 --> 00:36:00,860
and murderers and Queen Slayer 
like name the invective. 

752
00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:03,140
They probably got real creative 
like maybe we're probably had a 

753
00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:09,420
lot of things said about. 
Him, a lot of people would have 

754
00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:12,420
felt like vindicated. 
They're like see, see, you know,

755
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:16,020
people who maybe knew it or 
thought it or said it behind 

756
00:36:16,020 --> 00:36:17,820
closed doors. 
But now it's like, well, 

757
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:19,780
everyone can see it. 
I'm going to say it out loud. 

758
00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:23,820
Now it's so dramatic. 
These just deformed children, 

759
00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:26,460
they're deformed and not just 
ways that that we would see This

760
00:36:26,460 --> 00:36:29,320
is, and it's not even quite the 
same as what we saw from 

761
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,240
Daenerys or Rainier, like one of
them was, there's one that had 

762
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,200
rudimentary wings, but some of 
the others are just like eyeless

763
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800
and limbless. 
And it's not, they're not very 

764
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,200
draconic. 
They're just, you know, scary. 

765
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:46,920
And so that siding with him so 
not only was Meg or looking like

766
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,000
he was cursed and the gods were 
taking their vengeance, that 

767
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,440
means siding with him would be 
siding with someone who's cursed

768
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,040
that's going against the seven. 
So he would lose even more 

769
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,580
allies because of this. 
But again, anyone close to him 

770
00:36:57,580 --> 00:37:00,660
would have to do the tightrope 
walk of well, if I abandoned 

771
00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:04,460
him, he might kill me. 
So I got to, you know, had the 

772
00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:08,780
signs that major Lords were 
having conversations or 

773
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:11,620
entertaining the possibilities 
of allying with the Faith 

774
00:37:11,620 --> 00:37:13,900
Militant continued to increase 
there's more and more signs of 

775
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:16,460
that. 
So Meg or losing power, that's 

776
00:37:16,460 --> 00:37:17,580
probably what the high towers 
wanted. 

777
00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:20,100
They're probably pretty happy to
see this falling apart because, 

778
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:23,140
you know, it didn't work out and
they'd be glad to have some 

779
00:37:23,140 --> 00:37:27,010
stability and chance to move up 
in the world with a king that 

780
00:37:27,010 --> 00:37:28,330
would actually enable such 
things. 

781
00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:31,850
Someone other than Megor, the 
High Licks Bill had by then 

782
00:37:31,850 --> 00:37:34,250
returned to Old Town after the 
wedding. 

783
00:37:34,370 --> 00:37:36,450
He went back there and this is a
real problem with the High 

784
00:37:36,450 --> 00:37:39,490
towers because this guy was 
probably the second most hated 

785
00:37:39,490 --> 00:37:43,450
man apart from Megor according 
if from the perspective of the 

786
00:37:43,450 --> 00:37:46,080
Faith Militant. 
Like this guy is just rubber 

787
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,320
stamping everything Megor does 
and Megor is doing all sorts of 

788
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,760
awful things against the faith. 
It's like. 

789
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,920
You absolute traitor. 
You're supposed to be the 

790
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,160
representative of the gods, and 
this guy is bully against the 

791
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,120
gods and you're on his side. 
I mean, come on, show some fine 

792
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,080
man. 
You know, 12 septons refused to 

793
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,520
do this marriage and you're just
like, yeah, come on. 

794
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,960
So. 
That's not good. 

795
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,800
He's like, yeah, exactly. 
You want to do this like you 

796
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,960
want to murdered like you. 
See Audrey Places. 

797
00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:17,770
So sensing Megor's inability to 
respond to so much at once, and 

798
00:38:17,770 --> 00:38:21,650
knowing that so much of what was
threatening him was close by, is

799
00:38:21,650 --> 00:38:27,050
created an open quote. 
Septon Moon appeared once more, 

800
00:38:27,130 --> 00:38:30,130
leading thousands of the 
faithful on a March across the 

801
00:38:30,130 --> 00:38:34,330
Reach to Old Town with the 
announced intent of bearding the

802
00:38:34,330 --> 00:38:38,810
lickspittle in the starry step 
to to demand that he denounced 

803
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:41,650
the abomination on the Iron 
Throne. 

804
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,520
And lift his ban on the military
orders. 

805
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,840
When Lord Oakhart and Lord Rowan
appeared before him with their 

806
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,000
levees, they came not to attack 
Moon, but to join him. 

807
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,880
These are major houses, 
especially Rowan. 

808
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,520
Rowan is very big, and Oakhart 
is no slouch either. 

809
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,840
Those are important houses, so 
they're with Septon Moon. 

810
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,520
That's pretty brave. 
I mean, that's very much against

811
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,440
Meg or as well, before the army 
could arrive, before they had 

812
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,760
surrounded or camped outside Old
Town, Meg or had sent a rider 

813
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,800
down and that rider beat the 
army and it the rider brought a 

814
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,000
command from Meg. 
Or demanding Ray Ella be headed.

815
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,960
Yeah, beheaded. 
Ordered the death of Ray Ella. 

816
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,640
That's right. 
He didn't demand her brought to 

817
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,160
him. 
He commanded Lord Hightower to 

818
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,400
kill her. 
This is some John Aaron Airy 

819
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,040
stuff right here. 
I mean, he wasn't a friend of 

820
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,870
Ray Ella like John Aaron was to 
Ed, Art and Robert. 

821
00:39:41,870 --> 00:39:46,390
But still, this is who's ever 
going to send their kid to live 

822
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:48,630
with you if you obey this 
command? 

823
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:52,750
Like, Nope, You killed a child 
under your roof because this guy

824
00:39:52,750 --> 00:39:54,270
told you to. 
You didn't even stand up to him 

825
00:39:54,270 --> 00:39:56,070
a little bit. 
We're demanding the head of a 

826
00:39:56,070 --> 00:39:57,830
child. 
I mean, come on, A lot of 

827
00:39:57,830 --> 00:40:00,590
parallels in that moment, right?
And it's going to indeed end 

828
00:40:00,590 --> 00:40:03,430
with the death of the king who 
demanded the head of the child. 

829
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:07,040
So. 
The more history goes, the more 

830
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,560
it repeats. 
Yeah, so this is. 

831
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,680
Rules for a king. 
Number one, don't demand 

832
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,480
children be beheaded. 
Danny definitely gets that. 

833
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,560
I mean, queen, not king. 
The same difference. 

834
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,080
But she like, from right away. 
And Ned Stark gets that not king

835
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,600
at all. 
But he's like, yeah, we don't do

836
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:22,640
that. 
Go, Ned. 

837
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:23,440
Go Danny. 
Yeah. 

838
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,160
And this is further intensified 
as a point of interest. 

839
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,360
Because the reason Meg or 
demanded Rayella was because he 

840
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,480
lost Errea, who he had named 
Err, or Errea ran off. 

841
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,200
Rayna took off in the middle of 
the night, Took Irea, took black

842
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,920
fire, took the sword, right. 
What? 

843
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,880
Ironically or Blerian 
stealically, the lightness of 

844
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,520
black fire makes it easier to 
steal. 

845
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,320
It's a lighter sword, if that's 
a full size. 

846
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,760
Yeah, it's kind of funny. 
It's easier to snatch from. 

847
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,280
For Megor's POV, He was just, 
hey, I'm just following up on a 

848
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,240
base basic hostage threat. 
Like Rayella was a hostage, and 

849
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,600
Raya ran away. 
So I get to kill the hostage. 

850
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:06,130
That's how it works, right? 
Yeah, but we don't even know if 

851
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:09,890
Lord Donald knew that it Ray had
gotten away. 

852
00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:13,890
All he knows is this rider shows
up and demands the head of 

853
00:41:13,890 --> 00:41:16,530
Rayela. 
He might have figured it out. 

854
00:41:16,570 --> 00:41:18,530
It's like, well, if he's 
demanding the head of Rayela, 

855
00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:22,570
something happened, and it was 
probably with the people she was

856
00:41:22,570 --> 00:41:25,610
being held hostage for. 
It's like I was holding this 

857
00:41:25,610 --> 00:41:28,290
person on Megor's behalf to 
ensure the good behavior of 

858
00:41:28,290 --> 00:41:30,570
Rayna. 
So it's probably Rayna that did 

859
00:41:30,570 --> 00:41:32,930
something, so he probably could 
figure that out pretty easily. 

860
00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:36,090
Even if he couldn't figure out 
exactly what happened, something

861
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:39,610
went wrong, something bad for 
Megor Megor's grip loosening 

862
00:41:39,610 --> 00:41:43,090
even more. 
But the spotlight, the Eye of 

863
00:41:43,090 --> 00:41:46,770
Sauron is now pointed at the 
High Tower, even though the High

864
00:41:46,770 --> 00:41:48,890
Tower is probably more perfect 
place for the Eye of Sauron. 

865
00:41:49,490 --> 00:41:52,650
And never mind, this is Donald 
the Delair. 

866
00:41:52,650 --> 00:41:55,170
Probably it's it's actually 
still possible it was Martin at 

867
00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:56,810
this point. 
But we'll, we'll call it Donald 

868
00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:59,810
the Delair, because this 
behavior looks Donald the Delair

869
00:41:59,810 --> 00:42:02,230
ish. 
So what he did instead is he was

870
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:05,670
just like, no, he just 
imprisoned the messenger. 

871
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:08,110
He's imprisoned the guy, 
Megworth's messenger was thrown 

872
00:42:08,110 --> 00:42:10,630
in jail. 
It's not just murdering a child 

873
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:12,910
too, by the way. 
It's murdering a Princess and a 

874
00:42:12,910 --> 00:42:14,870
SEPTA. 
She's a SEPTA at this point. 

875
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:18,150
So it's also killing a young 
devotee of the gods. 

876
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:20,510
So it's it's triple bad. 
I mean, it's bad. 

877
00:42:20,510 --> 00:42:22,750
Just the one thing is bad 
enough, but it is even worse. 

878
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:27,030
You know, to the public. 
Like sometimes something bad you

879
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:30,070
can understand why. 
Or something could come with it 

880
00:42:30,070 --> 00:42:32,150
to make it not so bad. 
But this is something bad with 

881
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:34,230
something to make it extra bad 
with something to multiply. 

882
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:36,350
How bad he is, right? 
That's right, it's just throwing

883
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:38,390
like the fire is already raging,
but you're just throwing 

884
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:42,150
gasoline on it anyway. 
Like, yeah, imprisoning a 

885
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:43,670
message is pretty provocative 
thing to do. 

886
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:47,110
It's not like we're not saying 
he like refused to meet the guy 

887
00:42:47,110 --> 00:42:49,750
like delayed, delayed, which 
would have been appropriate and 

888
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:50,830
fitting. 
He would like, I can't see you 

889
00:42:50,830 --> 00:42:51,670
today. 
I can't see you today. 

890
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:53,230
I'm busy. 
Like if he delayed, he could 

891
00:42:53,230 --> 00:42:56,180
maybe like claim later that, you
know, I'm. 

892
00:42:56,340 --> 00:42:57,820
I didn't even know. 
No, but no. 

893
00:42:57,820 --> 00:42:59,900
He threw the guy in jail. 
That's that's a little more 

894
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:03,940
direct. 
And we can guess maybe he knew 

895
00:43:03,940 --> 00:43:08,580
what was coming because storms 
end shortly after this rose for 

896
00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:11,340
Gerry's. 
I got to think that a lot of 

897
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:13,340
these great houses were in 
charge were were communicating 

898
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:15,780
with each other. 
They didn't just Are you ready 

899
00:43:15,780 --> 00:43:17,820
to go up Like let's let's just 
hope they're ready to go up 

900
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:19,780
against Meg or two. 
Let's let's go. 

901
00:43:19,780 --> 00:43:21,900
Today's today, and hopefully 
they follow us. 

902
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:24,270
I don't think you make that move
without being pretty sure. 

903
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:25,670
Storms end. 
Communicating with the high 

904
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:27,950
tower, communicating with the 
Lannisters, communicating with 

905
00:43:28,070 --> 00:43:30,270
maybe the Starks, just seeing 
who's in. 

906
00:43:30,750 --> 00:43:32,710
But, and again, this brings us 
back to who's the center of 

907
00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:35,550
communication? 
Of the High Tower, probably. 

908
00:43:35,550 --> 00:43:37,830
There's almost no way they 
weren't very involved in all 

909
00:43:37,830 --> 00:43:41,510
this. 
So when Lord Donald threw Meg or

910
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:44,710
his messenger in jail, he may 
have already known that this 

911
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:48,320
announcement was coming and they
were just, they just few more 

912
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,800
days are going to go by a few 
more weeks, whatever they had to

913
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,920
couple more things to do. 
You know, they're not talking on

914
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,520
the phone, so these things can't
be that precise. 

915
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,640
This is also where we remind 
ourselves that about what 

916
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,440
happened with Lady Eleanor 
Castain, that her husband, who 

917
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,600
was executed in that kangaroo 
court trial, was from the storm 

918
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,040
lands. 
So that's another little 

919
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,880
connecting point here that, you 
know, Storm's End would have 

920
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,360
been rogue Arbor Atheon. 
A brave, powerful kind of a 

921
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,650
jerk. 
But and this at this time, he's 

922
00:44:17,650 --> 00:44:20,770
doing good things. 
Please let us have a jerk 

923
00:44:20,770 --> 00:44:22,970
beeking instead of Megor. 
Yeah, jerk be a huge 

924
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:25,730
improvement. 
Yeah, and Jerry wasn't a jerk, 

925
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:28,530
as it turns out. 
Just although Rogar tried to 

926
00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:32,210
make Jerry's jerkier. 
Still, at this point he's doing 

927
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:33,610
good. 
So that would have been 

928
00:44:33,610 --> 00:44:36,690
something that Rogar could have 
added to a little extra fuel to 

929
00:44:36,690 --> 00:44:38,490
the fire. 
Like one of our houses under my 

930
00:44:38,490 --> 00:44:41,610
domain was mistreated and yours 
was too. 

931
00:44:41,810 --> 00:44:44,050
Lord Hightower. 
And the exact same incident. 

932
00:44:44,940 --> 00:44:46,700
What is the reason, by the way? 
That makes me think that they 

933
00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:50,500
might not have had a specific 
plan or direct communication, 

934
00:44:50,820 --> 00:44:53,860
but they might have had this 
understanding like they'll come 

935
00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:56,580
along, you know if I make the 
first move and and maybe there 

936
00:44:56,580 --> 00:44:59,860
had been some communication and 
coordination among different 

937
00:44:59,860 --> 00:45:03,860
houses in the past, but even 
that even the idea they might 

938
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:06,540
have had some communication, 
there's certain key moments that

939
00:45:06,540 --> 00:45:08,940
can happen when they'll just 
know or this is it. 

940
00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:11,420
You know, there was the fact 
that they were entertaining me 

941
00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:14,140
before, and now that this 
happened, they will definitely 

942
00:45:14,140 --> 00:45:15,860
follow suit. 
There wasn't some, like 

943
00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:19,380
Tournament of Heron Hall 
equivalent where the Lord's met 

944
00:45:19,380 --> 00:45:21,580
to maybe conspire against Aries 
and Aries showed up because he 

945
00:45:21,580 --> 00:45:23,620
hurt because Varris warned him. 
That's what would be happening, 

946
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:26,220
Yeah, if something like that 
happened, Megor would have, 

947
00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:28,980
yeah, they knew better than to 
gather in one place. 

948
00:45:28,980 --> 00:45:33,020
I think with Megor, Aries didn't
have a dragon to torch them, but

949
00:45:33,020 --> 00:45:35,900
Megor had malaria. 
Be like be dragon, right? 

950
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,440
But also the Theo balding 
character and I keep coming back

951
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,600
with this kind of unimportant 
dude. 

952
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,160
Like how did he marry a Costane?
He's from a lower ranked house, 

953
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,680
so I figured he had to be like a
good word, like I was one of the

954
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,920
the problem I the best guess is 
that he was actually a notable 

955
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,720
warrior, which would make his 
his execution all the more 

956
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,160
unjust in a warrior culture. 
Like this guy was a good 

957
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,040
fighter. 
We liked him and he just this 

958
00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,800
the king just killed him for for
nothing. 

959
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:06,320
So here's how things started to 
break down when Megor's collapse

960
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:12,280
really under a back going quote.
Lord Valerian of Drift Mark was 

961
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,760
amongst the first to declare for
Jaheris. 

962
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,440
As the Valerians were the realms
traditional Admirals, Meghar 

963
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,000
woke to find he had lost the 
entire royal fleet. 

964
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,240
His high rails of High Garden 
followed with all the power of 

965
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:30,040
the Reach, the High towers of 
Old Town. 

966
00:46:30,350 --> 00:46:33,950
The red wines of the Arbor, the 
Lannisters of cash to the Rock. 

967
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:37,830
The errands of the Erie, the 
Royces of Runestone. 

968
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:42,070
One by one, they came out 
against the King. 

969
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:45,270
Once that ball's rolling, the 
rest are even more likely to 

970
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:46,310
join. 
They're not going to be on the 

971
00:46:46,310 --> 00:46:47,750
one to be on the wrong side of 
that. 

972
00:46:48,670 --> 00:46:50,710
Even houses that may have 
thought they could sit out, they

973
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:52,910
would maybe sit the whole thing 
out and be like, OK, now that 

974
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:56,870
Lannister Hightower cast 
everyone's in, we can join too. 

975
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:58,670
You don't want to, you don't 
want to be on the wrong side of 

976
00:46:58,750 --> 00:47:04,190
of not being on team Anti Meg or
that's kind of like yeah, these 

977
00:47:04,190 --> 00:47:06,110
high Lords all didn't come to 
the decision alone. 

978
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:08,430
You know, like we said, they 
must have conferred somehow, but

979
00:47:08,430 --> 00:47:13,150
they would have been very 
cautious about what they said to

980
00:47:13,150 --> 00:47:16,510
each other and then how they 
said it, just maybe not 

981
00:47:16,510 --> 00:47:20,920
discussing plans but discussing 
goals in uncertain terms. 

982
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,480
Like, yeah, what kind of, what 
kind of attitude do you have 

983
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,760
towards, I don't know, you know,
these marriages, you know, just 

984
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,000
like not directly coming to the 
point, but answering and riddles

985
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,240
and speaking between the lines, 
things that you can't be pinned 

986
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,240
down on, but you can communicate
with the sort of diplomacy 

987
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:36,760
doublespeak that we see a lot 
of. 

988
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,320
So it clearly revolved around 
these storms and and drift mark.

989
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,360
And I wonder if the high towers 
communicated with Drift Mark 

990
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,040
during this as well, or if that 
was maybe even too far if that's

991
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,730
not in their sphere of of 
communication. 

992
00:47:51,090 --> 00:47:53,130
So we could say that the high 
towers, if they weren't one of 

993
00:47:53,130 --> 00:47:55,690
the first dominoes to fall, they
were one of those who sat the 

994
00:47:55,690 --> 00:47:56,970
dominoes tumbling in the 1st 
place. 

995
00:47:56,970 --> 00:47:59,490
So they're very, very high on 
the hierarchy here. 

996
00:48:00,210 --> 00:48:02,770
Now raise an eyebrow here 
because on the smaller scale, 

997
00:48:02,770 --> 00:48:05,210
one of the two Kings guard 
responsible for the series, 

998
00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:08,290
Hightower's death, was found 
dead in a brothel with his 

999
00:48:08,290 --> 00:48:12,170
members stuffed in his mouth. 
Remember how she was killed? 

1000
00:48:12,290 --> 00:48:13,490
So there's lots of ways to 
interpret this. 

1001
00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:15,970
She was killed when he tried to 
cut her tongue down. 

1002
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:20,070
So this is this. 
This mouth maiming thing is 

1003
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:26,710
maybe a little on the nose or on
on the mouth on. 

1004
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:31,510
The tongue on the Johnson, 
that's, you know, it's kind of 

1005
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:33,030
telling. 
Like this guy could have made a 

1006
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:37,190
lot of enemies, but. 
You when you're when you have 

1007
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:40,590
powerful enemies and you're 
wondering which powerful enemy 

1008
00:48:41,150 --> 00:48:44,250
did the deed, you probably start
with the most powerful enemy and

1009
00:48:44,250 --> 00:48:46,610
then work your way down. 
Not the least and work your way.

1010
00:48:46,610 --> 00:48:49,930
Up and I like I don't probably 
is about as high as it gets. 

1011
00:48:49,930 --> 00:48:51,330
Like literally it's in their 
name right. 

1012
00:48:51,810 --> 00:48:54,770
So pretty big deal to murder a 
King's guard. 

1013
00:48:54,770 --> 00:48:58,290
You don't just do that right. 
That's I feel like this was 

1014
00:48:58,290 --> 00:49:00,970
revenge from someone powerful 
and well high towers are on that

1015
00:49:00,970 --> 00:49:04,210
short list and the other night 
was eventually executed by 

1016
00:49:04,210 --> 00:49:05,530
Jerry's. 
We'll get back to that when 

1017
00:49:05,570 --> 00:49:10,490
Jerry's becomes a king shortly. 
Here, Megor was found dead on 

1018
00:49:10,490 --> 00:49:14,460
the throne by Eleanor Costain. 
Again, Eleanor Costain, by the 

1019
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:16,020
way. 
Her life is really interesting 

1020
00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:18,060
apart from the all the trauma, 
which you know that could be 

1021
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:21,100
interesting. 
It's not fun, but her life 

1022
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:24,620
continued on in a lot of other 
ways and she pops up in Jerry's 

1023
00:49:24,620 --> 00:49:27,460
reign as well. 
Some even say she pushed him 

1024
00:49:27,940 --> 00:49:30,900
like she shoved him down and 
pushed the blade like that 

1025
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:34,060
doesn't seem very likely. 
Like how large was this woman 

1026
00:49:34,060 --> 00:49:36,140
because Meg were was a giant? 
I don't know. 

1027
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:38,020
I kind of doubt that. 
It's weird that they even 

1028
00:49:38,020 --> 00:49:42,160
floated this this theory though,
but she definitely had the means

1029
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,520
to give access to someone that 
was perhaps strong enough, like 

1030
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,200
let someone in. 
But the IT happened in the 

1031
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,880
throne room with King's Guard 
guarding the entrances. 

1032
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,160
I don't think they were on the 
inside or they might have been 

1033
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,160
on the outside of them. 
Like on the outside of the 

1034
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,360
doors, rather on the inside. 
We're not sure about that, so. 

1035
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,640
Maybe if she or someone gave him
some suspect wine. 

1036
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,440
Yeah, and the King's Guard could
have been in on it. 

1037
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,120
Even though there's two. 
It would have to be two King's 

1038
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,560
Guard agreeing to both do it, 
which is. 

1039
00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:11,630
Name. 
I mean that's happened with 

1040
00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:13,390
Raygar. 
So I mean not killing Raygar, 

1041
00:50:13,390 --> 00:50:14,870
but they sided with Raygar and 
series. 

1042
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:17,710
So yeah, these things happen and
of course the King's yard split 

1043
00:50:17,710 --> 00:50:19,390
during the dance. 
I mean, yeah, these things, 

1044
00:50:19,390 --> 00:50:21,790
these things do happen. 
So it is possible. 

1045
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:24,630
I feel like yeah lots of time 
making might have like a partner

1046
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:26,710
on the King's guard. 
You're like paired with you do 

1047
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:28,470
like your guard duties with a 
lot. 

1048
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:32,390
You get to talking and I feel 
like having a buddy on on there 

1049
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:36,070
and it only takes a little bit 
of this King is horrible to get 

1050
00:50:36,070 --> 00:50:37,550
the ball rolling on the 
conversation. 

1051
00:50:37,550 --> 00:50:42,850
Like what would happen if you 
know someone came for Mega or 

1052
00:50:42,850 --> 00:50:47,410
you know, I would I would do my 
duty but you know maybe my heart

1053
00:50:47,410 --> 00:50:49,210
wouldn't be in it as much as it 
could be. 

1054
00:50:49,210 --> 00:50:50,570
You know, like I would still do 
my duty. 

1055
00:50:50,730 --> 00:50:54,090
He's so he's not talking. 
Treason would make a superficial

1056
00:50:54,090 --> 00:50:56,130
attempt at my duty. 
Yeah, so like, and that maybe 

1057
00:50:56,130 --> 00:50:58,490
leads to a more indepth 
conversation about where they 

1058
00:50:58,490 --> 00:50:59,810
really lie. 
Like just kind of feeling it out

1059
00:50:59,810 --> 00:51:02,010
and someone's like, no, I would 
never, you know, just hardcore 

1060
00:51:02,010 --> 00:51:03,130
like, okay. 
Well, we're not going back to 

1061
00:51:03,130 --> 00:51:06,010
that conversation. 
This guy's not included, but 

1062
00:51:06,050 --> 00:51:08,530
eventually. 
The 4:00 PM shift, not the 7:00 

1063
00:51:08,530 --> 00:51:10,010
AM shift. 
So if you find 2 of. 

1064
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:11,610
Yeah, right. 
So eventually you find the two 

1065
00:51:11,650 --> 00:51:14,730
that are good that that that can
be in for this. 

1066
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:17,370
Eventually those two are paired 
up on guard duty together. 

1067
00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:18,690
And that's when you make your 
move. 

1068
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:20,770
Something like that. 
So this is just one of many 

1069
00:51:20,770 --> 00:51:24,490
possibilities. 
Again, just like with Owen Bush,

1070
00:51:24,970 --> 00:51:27,410
plenty of people hated Meg, or 
he had way more enemies even 

1071
00:51:27,410 --> 00:51:31,490
than Owen Bush. 
But very few people who hated 

1072
00:51:31,490 --> 00:51:35,010
Meg or actually have any sort of
means or ability to do anything 

1073
00:51:35,010 --> 00:51:37,010
about it. 
Only the, like, really rich and 

1074
00:51:37,010 --> 00:51:39,610
powerful people can really do 
anything about it other than 

1075
00:51:39,610 --> 00:51:42,530
like the people who sleep in 
Megor's bed and can stab him 

1076
00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:45,490
while he sleeps. 
But I can understand why no one 

1077
00:51:45,490 --> 00:51:47,450
did that too, because it's 
terrifying, right? 

1078
00:51:48,570 --> 00:51:52,410
So Cerise, Hightower, their 
families of Cerise and and 

1079
00:51:52,410 --> 00:51:54,650
Eleanor are possible 
conspirators. 

1080
00:51:55,050 --> 00:51:57,530
Not just them, they're 
entourages. 

1081
00:51:57,530 --> 00:52:01,790
These are people that you can 
easily conceal A spy or two or 

1082
00:52:01,790 --> 00:52:04,590
someone more capable amongst 
these group, this group, it's 

1083
00:52:04,590 --> 00:52:06,470
pretty easy to do that. 
We've seen it in a number of 

1084
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:10,230
cases, and we're already pretty 
sure the high Towers murdered a 

1085
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:12,310
high septum, and it may not have
been the first time. 

1086
00:52:12,310 --> 00:52:16,910
So, like, once you have shown 
that you'll murder, you just 

1087
00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:19,830
jumped higher on the list of 
suspect of suspects when there's

1088
00:52:19,830 --> 00:52:22,110
another murder that's related, 
right? 

1089
00:52:22,910 --> 00:52:26,550
Yeah. 
I I want to make a maybe a. 

1090
00:52:27,370 --> 00:52:30,650
Controversial moral statements 
or defense of Hightower here. 

1091
00:52:32,210 --> 00:52:35,490
It might not be murder. 
You could argue that it's he's 

1092
00:52:35,490 --> 00:52:39,490
being executed for crimes 
committed and or selfdefense, 

1093
00:52:39,490 --> 00:52:41,450
right? 
If this SEPTA is going to get 

1094
00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:45,210
thousands of innocent people 
killed, killing him isn't so 

1095
00:52:45,210 --> 00:52:47,770
much murdering him as defending 
the other people, and I'm sure 

1096
00:52:47,770 --> 00:52:49,570
this. 
May or has murdered multiple 

1097
00:52:49,570 --> 00:52:50,650
people. 
You're not. 

1098
00:52:51,150 --> 00:52:52,870
He doesn't really have a right 
to life anymore, right? 

1099
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:55,230
If there was any kind of trial 
or justice, he would be 

1100
00:52:55,230 --> 00:52:57,230
sentenced to death. 
And this is just someone doing 

1101
00:52:57,230 --> 00:52:59,550
it without the trial. 
But we don't even need it 

1102
00:52:59,550 --> 00:53:01,270
because there's so many 
witnesses that controls the 

1103
00:53:01,270 --> 00:53:02,470
trial. 
We couldn't have the trial. 

1104
00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:03,390
Yeah, So it's. 
Just, yeah. 

1105
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:05,310
I mean, I guess it depends on 
how much you agree with, like 

1106
00:53:05,350 --> 00:53:08,950
vigilantism and stuff like that.
Like, if you think he's right, 

1107
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:10,670
then yeah, you probably wouldn't
call this murder. 

1108
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:12,950
Yeah, that's a great point to 
share to, to mark it down to 

1109
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:14,030
vigilantes. 
Because like, if you don't 

1110
00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:16,510
believe in any vigilantism, then
I guess you have to say like, 

1111
00:53:16,510 --> 00:53:18,630
this is an example that you have
to swallow be like this is 

1112
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:20,310
wrong. 
But like, I think this tells 

1113
00:53:20,310 --> 00:53:24,410
you, like you got to leave some 
room for vigilantism when you're

1114
00:53:24,410 --> 00:53:26,890
presented with a situation like 
this, like there is, like what 

1115
00:53:26,890 --> 00:53:27,810
else could there be? 
There's. 

1116
00:53:28,690 --> 00:53:32,090
A lot of like society and 
government is compromising, you 

1117
00:53:32,090 --> 00:53:34,450
know, morals and rights. 
Like we get like you can't go in

1118
00:53:34,450 --> 00:53:35,930
a theater and you'll fire, 
right. 

1119
00:53:35,930 --> 00:53:39,050
We sacrifice that little piece 
of right to speech for the 

1120
00:53:39,050 --> 00:53:40,770
safety of people in a theater, 
right. 

1121
00:53:40,930 --> 00:53:44,010
So at some point what we're 
getting out of this government 

1122
00:53:44,050 --> 00:53:46,130
that the things that this 
government is all sensibly 

1123
00:53:46,130 --> 00:53:48,290
providing for us is not worth 
it. 

1124
00:53:48,550 --> 00:53:50,630
When the leader of the 
government is a murderer, you 

1125
00:53:50,670 --> 00:53:54,270
know, like there's not a 
function to have a trial to stop

1126
00:53:54,270 --> 00:53:57,110
him. 
So are we all supposed to accept

1127
00:53:57,110 --> 00:54:00,590
this moral and moral action as 
it really murdered to kill him, 

1128
00:54:00,590 --> 00:54:01,630
you know? 
I would say. 

1129
00:54:01,830 --> 00:54:03,750
I would say the High Towers are 
heroes. 

1130
00:54:04,070 --> 00:54:06,350
I would agree. 
I would agree with you, Sean. 

1131
00:54:06,350 --> 00:54:09,430
But I would say there are 
probably some people in world 

1132
00:54:09,870 --> 00:54:13,470
who are, I don't know, I want to
say brainwashed, quite honest, 

1133
00:54:13,590 --> 00:54:18,230
to believe in the innate. 
Justice, the innate morality of 

1134
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:22,830
the king of the crown, of the 
godliness that if Meghor said 

1135
00:54:22,830 --> 00:54:26,230
that this is how it should be, 
then he's just right. 

1136
00:54:26,270 --> 00:54:29,870
And there's no I think some 
people will never be swayed. 

1137
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:33,150
Presidents even think that. 
Yeah, yeah, I'll never mind 

1138
00:54:33,150 --> 00:54:35,030
kings. 
Yeah, you'll see people that 

1139
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:38,890
will look at like a bunch of 
dead children and say it's part 

1140
00:54:38,890 --> 00:54:42,090
of God's plan now, and obviously
not nearly all believers. 

1141
00:54:42,370 --> 00:54:44,690
People who believe in God would 
say that not nearly, Not even 

1142
00:54:44,690 --> 00:54:46,690
close. 
But there it's the same kind of 

1143
00:54:46,690 --> 00:54:48,930
similar kind of attitude where 
you're like, Yep, the authority 

1144
00:54:48,930 --> 00:54:50,810
figure set did it. 
It must be right? 

1145
00:54:50,930 --> 00:54:54,770
Whether that authority figure is
a king, a deity, your dad, I 

1146
00:54:54,770 --> 00:54:55,770
don't know. 
Just anyone. 

1147
00:54:55,810 --> 00:54:58,010
And that, and that's sort of 
what's expected from the King's 

1148
00:54:58,010 --> 00:55:00,170
Guard, right? 
Yes, there's sort of like you're

1149
00:55:00,170 --> 00:55:02,290
supposed to be blind. 
And I even had that thought that

1150
00:55:02,570 --> 00:55:06,700
on on some level. 
It it's like extra shocking for 

1151
00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:08,100
Jamie to have killed Aries, 
right? 

1152
00:55:08,100 --> 00:55:09,820
Like, but you're supposed to 
protect. 

1153
00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:12,260
But in the other at the same 
time, I almost think it's the 

1154
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:14,060
opposite. 
I think the Kings Guard are 

1155
00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:18,820
probably the most I don't know 
how to say the last line first. 

1156
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:20,740
Hand witness to it, not so much 
the last line even. 

1157
00:55:20,940 --> 00:55:22,740
They're the most aware of how 
terrible the king. 

1158
00:55:23,060 --> 00:55:26,380
Yes, they. 
In some ways, have the most 

1159
00:55:26,380 --> 00:55:29,220
motivation to stop them because 
they have the most witness to it

1160
00:55:29,220 --> 00:55:30,580
all, You know, That's a great 
point. 

1161
00:55:30,580 --> 00:55:33,010
Yeah, Jamie saw things that no 
one else. 

1162
00:55:33,050 --> 00:55:34,410
I mean, Jamie is an amazing 
example there. 

1163
00:55:34,410 --> 00:55:35,970
Like the wildfire plot. 
I mean, hello. 

1164
00:55:35,970 --> 00:55:38,330
Like, no one else knew about 
that except for like a few by 

1165
00:55:38,330 --> 00:55:40,450
romancers and stuff. 
Like that's worse than just 

1166
00:55:40,450 --> 00:55:41,770
seeing what he's like behind 
closed doors. 

1167
00:55:41,770 --> 00:55:44,010
That's seeing his plan to blow 
everybody up. 

1168
00:55:44,010 --> 00:55:47,610
Like Jamie, very justified now. 
I mean, he could argue that he 

1169
00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:49,970
didn't have to kill Aries. 
He could have just like captured

1170
00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:51,410
him. 
But anyway, that's another story

1171
00:55:51,410 --> 00:55:53,170
altogether. 
May Gore, that wasn't clearly 

1172
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:55,970
wasn't an option with him too 
strong of a guy. 

1173
00:55:55,970 --> 00:56:00,650
No one even knows how exactly 
who did who done it, but pretty 

1174
00:56:00,650 --> 00:56:04,330
much the majority of the realm 
was happy that it happened. 

1175
00:56:04,330 --> 00:56:06,090
Even though they don't 
necessarily know who did it, 

1176
00:56:06,130 --> 00:56:10,450
they were glad for it. 
So Jerry immediately started 

1177
00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:13,530
making moves and conciliated, 
starting with those closest to 

1178
00:56:13,530 --> 00:56:15,850
him around the Red Keep and the 
King's Landing. 

1179
00:56:15,850 --> 00:56:17,730
But it was wouldn't be long 
before he had turned to Old 

1180
00:56:17,730 --> 00:56:19,730
Town. 
But all stuff was already 

1181
00:56:19,730 --> 00:56:21,810
happening in Old Town as Jerry 
was getting settled. 

1182
00:56:22,250 --> 00:56:26,210
Septon Moon's army had arrived 
at Old Town and could only have 

1183
00:56:26,210 --> 00:56:28,130
felt emboldened at the death of 
Nagle. 

1184
00:56:28,250 --> 00:56:31,780
Now a few of them crittered away
because Megor is the guy they 

1185
00:56:31,780 --> 00:56:36,460
really hated. 
Well my anger is sated for now, 

1186
00:56:36,460 --> 00:56:39,100
but others were like, well now 
it's going to be easier. 

1187
00:56:32,260 --> 00:56:40,140
And with him, dad, they're like.
We still want to get the high 

1188
00:56:40,140 --> 00:56:43,100
licks fiddle and he doesn't have
Megor to defend him anymore. 

1189
00:56:43,660 --> 00:56:46,620
Little both. 
I want to ask a couple 

1190
00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:48,340
clarifying questions about this 
moment. 

1191
00:56:48,340 --> 00:56:48,820
Right. 
Sure. 

1192
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:51,540
Jaharrius is like a teenager, 
right? 

1193
00:56:51,620 --> 00:56:54,340
Yes. 
He is under, He's young, he is 

1194
00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:55,860
below 16. 
In fact, he's not. 

1195
00:56:55,860 --> 00:56:59,090
He's 14, I believe. 
Because that is there's 13 and 

1196
00:56:59,090 --> 00:57:03,130
19, right? 
So the question 1/2 his father 

1197
00:57:03,530 --> 00:57:08,170
Amy's is dead. 
So like, it is on Joe Harris 

1198
00:57:08,170 --> 00:57:10,770
right now. 
Like there's like he it's known 

1199
00:57:10,770 --> 00:57:12,690
there's this pressure. 
He's next in line. 

1200
00:57:12,690 --> 00:57:14,850
Like if Megor goes down, it's 
going to be him, right? 

1201
00:57:14,850 --> 00:57:17,970
Well, okay, that depends. 
Because storms end. 

1202
00:57:17,970 --> 00:57:20,210
Rose for Jerry's is going to be 
the king. 

1203
00:57:20,530 --> 00:57:24,650
Jerry's was Megor's heir, but 
Megor specifically disinherited 

1204
00:57:24,650 --> 00:57:26,010
him. 
He's like, no, he's not my heir,

1205
00:57:26,660 --> 00:57:30,060
Irea is. 
Yeah, Megor feminist king Megor 

1206
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:30,620
said. 
We. 

1207
00:57:31,340 --> 00:57:34,780
Have. 
Female heirs here, here, and we 

1208
00:57:34,780 --> 00:57:38,460
can't say a word against him. 
He was righteous and King Megor.

1209
00:57:39,300 --> 00:57:42,420
Now if you go by, there's an 
argument that Reyna should have 

1210
00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:44,900
been ahead. 
It's Reyna's daughter. 

1211
00:57:44,900 --> 00:57:48,500
So why is Irea ahead of Reyna? 
Because Reyna had already been. 

1212
00:57:48,780 --> 00:57:52,140
Arguably, Reyna had already been
usurped when Megor defeated her 

1213
00:57:52,140 --> 00:57:53,940
and her brother Agon and killed 
Agon. 

1214
00:57:54,570 --> 00:57:57,090
That was the point of contention
for some that especially right 

1215
00:57:57,090 --> 00:57:59,490
now, that's like Rain is like, 
I'm ahead of you, Jaharis. 

1216
00:57:59,490 --> 00:58:02,690
Why are you the king? 
It's like, well, they rose for 

1217
00:58:02,690 --> 00:58:06,290
me, you know, they didn't rise 
for you like the Civil war 

1218
00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:10,970
rebellion was for me. 
You were elsewhere, like Rogar 

1219
00:58:10,970 --> 00:58:14,610
rose with Jaharis and Rayna 
wasn't even with them. 

1220
00:58:14,610 --> 00:58:17,930
Rayna was locked away by Megor, 
or actually she escaped to 

1221
00:58:18,250 --> 00:58:20,770
Dragonstone when Megor got 
confused there. 

1222
00:58:20,770 --> 00:58:22,650
But still. 
Anyway, that's a whole another 

1223
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:24,850
story. 
I'm on that same line. 

1224
00:58:24,850 --> 00:58:28,650
I'm wondering who the Hand of 
the King was at this moment. 

1225
00:58:29,050 --> 00:58:30,090
And it looks like. 
It was Ed. 

1226
00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:31,970
Well, Celtic are. 
Oh yeah, Celtic are. 

1227
00:58:32,090 --> 00:58:33,690
Who became to Harris's master 
coin? 

1228
00:58:33,730 --> 00:58:36,090
Jerry made Ed well, the master 
coin afterwards, but. 

1229
00:58:36,570 --> 00:58:40,970
I was just wondering how 
prepared for the transition the 

1230
00:58:40,970 --> 00:58:45,210
leadership was, how how much, 
how much to Harris is just this 

1231
00:58:45,210 --> 00:58:49,930
kid getting shuffled along by 
other, you know, mentors and 

1232
00:58:49,930 --> 00:58:53,270
leaders or how much? 
He is taking charge and 

1233
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:54,950
listening to the advice of other
people. 

1234
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:57,070
I just want to know what the 
relationship with the people are

1235
00:58:57,070 --> 00:58:58,630
about to move into power. 
Good question. 

1236
00:58:58,630 --> 00:59:01,790
Now this is, we have a very 
straight answer on this because 

1237
00:59:01,790 --> 00:59:03,470
it's an important part of the 
Harry's character. 

1238
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:06,750
At first it did appear that way 
that he was being led along, 

1239
00:59:06,750 --> 00:59:08,550
They didn't know who he was, 
that people didn't know much 

1240
00:59:08,550 --> 00:59:12,030
about his character. 
But very quickly he impressed 

1241
00:59:12,030 --> 00:59:15,310
the pants off of basically every
Lord that came before him and 

1242
00:59:15,310 --> 00:59:17,950
got to meet him and talk to him.
He did listen. 

1243
00:59:18,410 --> 00:59:21,730
He did ask important questions. 
He was respectful, insightful, 

1244
00:59:22,210 --> 00:59:27,210
clearheaded, even tempered. 
Like there's a number of quotes 

1245
00:59:27,490 --> 00:59:31,410
about how they were like, yeah, 
especially after Meg or they 

1246
00:59:31,410 --> 00:59:33,130
were like worried like what 
would be next. 

1247
00:59:33,130 --> 00:59:37,730
And so there was almost a relief
that he was so good and seemed 

1248
00:59:37,730 --> 00:59:40,370
to be so positive. 
And it's like the outlook was 

1249
00:59:40,370 --> 00:59:43,170
great and people were pretty 
quickly jazzed about the 

1250
00:59:43,170 --> 00:59:45,010
opportunity once they got to 
meet him. 

1251
00:59:46,070 --> 00:59:48,510
And the wake of that, Was there 
a rise in demand for belt 

1252
00:59:48,510 --> 00:59:52,990
makers, I don't think. 
If you impress the pants off of 

1253
00:59:52,990 --> 00:59:57,630
everybody suspenders more so 
than than belts. 

1254
00:59:57,990 --> 01:00:04,430
Bad of the era. 
One clarification and 

1255
01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:06,510
correction. 
Aegon the first did create the 

1256
01:00:06,510 --> 01:00:08,350
Grand Mason position himself, 
apparently. 

1257
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:10,390
Maybe the histories wrote it 
differently, but we we 

1258
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:13,230
speculated the high towers may 
have pushed for that, but it 

1259
01:00:13,230 --> 01:00:16,000
seems that Aegon himself made 
that move now. 

1260
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,600
Maybe someone suggested it to 
him, but we may have less reason

1261
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,720
to speculate than maybe I 
intimated it first. 

1262
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,240
You asked a question last week, 
Sean, about whether Warriors 

1263
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,440
sons give up their lands and 
titles or not, whether it would 

1264
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:28,800
have passed to Sir Morgan or 
not. 

1265
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:30,680
Now I probably wouldn't have 
passed Sir Morgan anyway, 

1266
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,640
because Martin had sons or 
Manford had sons. 

1267
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,360
Whichever. 
But they do give up their lands 

1268
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,240
and titles. 
That is part of the job. 

1269
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,330
I should have thought of 
Landsell, who did give up his 

1270
01:00:42,330 --> 01:00:47,170
rights to DARE, which didn't 
necessarily mean it would be the

1271
01:00:47,170 --> 01:00:49,570
same, Like he could have given 
up his lands and titles and 

1272
01:00:49,570 --> 01:00:51,530
joined the Warriors Sons. 
They didn't have to be a 

1273
01:00:51,530 --> 01:00:53,970
prerequisite, but it is. 
It does turn out to be a 

1274
01:00:53,970 --> 01:00:55,490
prerequisite. 
So that's that's important 

1275
01:00:55,490 --> 01:01:02,170
because there are a few who go 
from retiring, accepting Jerry's

1276
01:01:02,170 --> 01:01:05,770
amnesty, but they have to go 
join the Knights watch because 

1277
01:01:06,210 --> 01:01:08,530
they've already kind of 
surrendered their positions or 

1278
01:01:08,530 --> 01:01:09,530
whatever. 
Now that doesn't apply to 

1279
01:01:09,530 --> 01:01:11,880
commoners as much, but Jerry 
still sent them to the wall, so 

1280
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,080
that's that. 
Darnish Dame wonders if that's 

1281
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,480
foreshouting for Rowan in our 
cart, defecting in the main 

1282
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,680
Series and A Storm of Swords. 
Rowan is very uncomfortable 

1283
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,840
about the death of Regar 
children, and Aries Oakard died 

1284
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,800
in service of Common. 
Oh, that's interesting. 

1285
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,000
Yeah, maybe showing how they're.
History is going to repeat 

1286
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,160
itself. 
And then other people in the 

1287
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,120
chat brought up the idea of like
Randall Tarly defecting to 

1288
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,000
which, you know, just, yeah, 
other reach men that and the the

1289
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,840
Sam Tarly. 
This is the era of Sam Tarly and

1290
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,140
that the whole business. 
So that's Samantha Tarley. 

1291
01:01:41,140 --> 01:01:42,460
Yes. 
Not Sam Tarley. 

1292
01:01:42,580 --> 01:01:44,300
Samantha Tarley. 
It is a Sam. 

1293
01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:46,460
But didn't. 
That was confusing, probably. 

1294
01:01:47,460 --> 01:01:49,300
Or at least we're about to get 
to her era. 

1295
01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:52,540
We're not actually there yet. 
She was born a little bit later.

1296
01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:54,020
Yeah. 
It's a really good catch to 

1297
01:01:54,020 --> 01:01:55,420
understand. 
I like that catch. 

1298
01:01:55,420 --> 01:01:57,020
Or like that idea. 
It might make sense. 

1299
01:01:57,020 --> 01:02:00,700
We'll have to keep that in mind 
when we see how the Friends in 

1300
01:02:00,700 --> 01:02:02,780
the Reach plot line goes 
forward. 

1301
01:02:02,940 --> 01:02:07,740
Yeah, I want to remind you all 
that we have our Patreon Bush 

1302
01:02:07,740 --> 01:02:09,180
going for the next couple of 
weeks. 

1303
01:02:09,180 --> 01:02:12,860
You can still get in for $2.00 
and that price is going away 

1304
01:02:13,060 --> 01:02:16,220
unless you sign them now, you'll
have that price locked in even 

1305
01:02:16,220 --> 01:02:19,700
when it becomes unavailable for 
new subscribers. 

1306
01:02:20,060 --> 01:02:24,380
That gets you all of our bonus 
episodes and a little title if 

1307
01:02:24,380 --> 01:02:27,260
you like it. 
And some other bonuses, like 

1308
01:02:27,260 --> 01:02:32,020
getting to vote in our polls. 
Patreon bead, which doesn't have

1309
01:02:32,020 --> 01:02:33,620
ads in it. 
So that's nice. 

1310
01:02:33,620 --> 01:02:36,140
You get to get through there 
without any inserts, things like

1311
01:02:36,140 --> 01:02:37,740
that. 
So there's a I think it's well 

1312
01:02:37,740 --> 01:02:40,260
worth $2.00. 
In fact, we think it's worth a 

1313
01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:42,300
little more than $2.00, which is
why we're raising the price. 

1314
01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:43,660
But you still have time to get 
in. 

1315
01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:46,780
Now, the next few weeks that 
price will end when we begin 

1316
01:02:47,420 --> 01:02:51,500
Fire and Blood reread us. 
Yes, Sir. 

1317
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:54,060
Yes, ma'am. 
Let's go forward with the reign 

1318
01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:57,420
of the Harris. 
Before he could get to the 

1319
01:02:57,420 --> 01:03:01,860
business of Kinging Kingery, he 
had to take care of many loose 

1320
01:03:01,860 --> 01:03:03,860
ends left by his predecessor 
first. 

1321
01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:08,700
One of them was particularly 
pressing because Septon's moon 

1322
01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:12,260
Septon Moon's army still sat 
outside Old Town, where Donald 

1323
01:03:12,260 --> 01:03:16,220
the Delayer delayed, right? 
Of course. 

1324
01:03:16,220 --> 01:03:19,140
What else would he do? 
That's here's a quote about what

1325
01:03:19,140 --> 01:03:23,700
was going on with Septon Moon. 
Every day, Septon Moon went 

1326
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:27,660
forth to denounce the sins of 
House Targaryen and the Licks 

1327
01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:30,560
fiddle. 
Who permitted their abominations

1328
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,920
whilst inside Old Town? 
The true Father of the Faithful 

1329
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,680
had become a virtual prisoner in
his own palace, unable to set 

1330
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,840
forth outside the confines of 
the starry Set. 

1331
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,640
Though Lord Hightower had closed
his gates against Set and Moon 

1332
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,800
and his followers, and refused 
to allow the entrance to his 

1333
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,560
city, he showed no eagerness to 
take up arms against them, 

1334
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,680
despite repeated entreaties from
his High Holiness. 

1335
01:03:57,150 --> 01:04:01,230
When pressed for reasons, his 
Lordship cited a distaste for 

1336
01:04:01,230 --> 01:04:06,110
shedding pious blood, but many 
claimed the real reason was his 

1337
01:04:06,110 --> 01:04:11,110
unwillingness to offer battle to
Lords Oakhart and Rowan, who had

1338
01:04:11,110 --> 01:04:15,590
granted Moon their protection. 
His reluctance earned him the 

1339
01:04:15,590 --> 01:04:19,270
name Lord Donald the Delayer 
from the Maesters of the 

1340
01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:21,110
Citadel. 
It's interesting that the 

1341
01:04:21,110 --> 01:04:22,910
maesters of the Citadel gave him
that name. 

1342
01:04:23,030 --> 01:04:25,830
I guess they must not have seen 
it as an insult because the for 

1343
01:04:25,830 --> 01:04:29,270
them to give him a name like 
that while he's still alive. 

1344
01:04:30,190 --> 01:04:33,830
While the Hightower is that he, 
he little literally holds the 

1345
01:04:33,830 --> 01:04:35,870
title Defender of the Citadel, 
you know? 

1346
01:04:36,070 --> 01:04:39,670
I think it could be a good thing
to delay specifically, and they 

1347
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:43,030
can recognize that is a savvy 
move to delay sometimes. 

1348
01:04:43,150 --> 01:04:44,710
I I'm thinking he didn't mind 
the name. 

1349
01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:46,590
He may have even liked it, yeah.
But yeah. 

1350
01:04:47,070 --> 01:04:50,790
In my head, Cannon, this guy's 
very shrewd and it's a 

1351
01:04:50,790 --> 01:04:55,030
combination of, as you mentioned
earlier, it's been sort of a 

1352
01:04:55,030 --> 01:04:57,930
precedent set. 
We're in a weird spot here and 

1353
01:04:57,930 --> 01:05:00,330
everyone's kind of like, just 
waiting to see, right. 

1354
01:05:00,330 --> 01:05:03,810
We're all just kind of no one 
wants to be the first person to 

1355
01:05:03,810 --> 01:05:05,010
get their head chopped off. 
You know. 

1356
01:05:05,210 --> 01:05:08,090
So everyone's in a state where 
it makes sense to delay. 

1357
01:05:08,090 --> 01:05:10,530
So like, if you want to call me 
Donald the layer, fine. 

1358
01:05:10,530 --> 01:05:13,530
But like, so is everyone else 
me. 

1359
01:05:13,810 --> 01:05:17,650
We're all delaying. 
Right 1/2 he. 

1360
01:05:18,170 --> 01:05:21,050
I can imagine him having this 
idea and like they can think 

1361
01:05:21,050 --> 01:05:22,610
what they want. 
I know I'm doing the right 

1362
01:05:22,610 --> 01:05:24,730
thing. 
You know, he he might there 

1363
01:05:24,730 --> 01:05:29,120
might be an honor that. 
But also, I think, sure, let 

1364
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,520
them think I'm the delayer. 
That way, when I move quick, no 

1365
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,080
one will see it coming. 
I'll be able to take advantage 

1366
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,080
of this quote UN quote 
reputation that I have. 

1367
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:37,680
It's just the way things have 
played out. 

1368
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,840
But I'm not really a delayer. 
I'll move quick if it's the 

1369
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:41,160
right thing to do. 
It just hasn't been the right 

1370
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,160
thing to do. 
And so it would be extra 

1371
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,880
advantageous to me for people to
think this way when I do decide 

1372
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,520
to move quick. 
And if he does move, and anytime

1373
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,640
he wants to move slow, he can, 
people will expect to go. 

1374
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,490
That's just what he does. 
And it was. 

1375
01:05:53,650 --> 01:05:55,650
Not an insult to them. 
It's the standard. 

1376
01:05:55,730 --> 01:05:57,890
Oh yes, OP Yeah, OK, that's 
really good. 

1377
01:05:57,890 --> 01:05:59,010
I like that. 
Take quite a bit. 

1378
01:05:59,730 --> 01:06:02,730
In this case though, he couldn't
delay forever because Harry's 

1379
01:06:02,730 --> 01:06:05,970
had to be crowned at the Starry 
Sept, which was currently 

1380
01:06:06,170 --> 01:06:09,490
blocked off. 
The roads are all clogged with 

1381
01:06:10,010 --> 01:06:13,530
Faithful and and Sept and Moon's
army, including the armies of 

1382
01:06:13,530 --> 01:06:15,650
Lords Oak Heart and Ron. 
So how how are you going to have

1383
01:06:15,650 --> 01:06:18,130
a coronation now without, you 
know, it doesn't look good for 

1384
01:06:18,130 --> 01:06:20,530
Donald, the lair. 
And last thing he wants is them 

1385
01:06:20,530 --> 01:06:23,370
to, like, have the coronation 
somewhere else or something like

1386
01:06:23,370 --> 01:06:24,330
that. 
That's not what he wants. 

1387
01:06:24,730 --> 01:06:26,410
And back in Kingsling, they had 
a similar attitude. 

1388
01:06:26,410 --> 01:06:29,410
They're like, well, we don't 
want to just attack this host. 

1389
01:06:30,370 --> 01:06:32,810
Jared's just trying real hard 
not to be Meg or. 

1390
01:06:32,810 --> 01:06:35,290
And that's just, this is really 
the the wrong way. 

1391
01:06:35,330 --> 01:06:38,410
You're like, that's exactly Meg 
or so. 

1392
01:06:38,530 --> 01:06:41,730
You don't want to do that. 
But the problem seems to have 

1393
01:06:42,490 --> 01:06:45,530
taken care of itself. 
Septon Moon was assassinated by 

1394
01:06:45,530 --> 01:06:49,330
a camp follower. 
Oddly, his throat was cut and 

1395
01:06:49,330 --> 01:06:51,410
his wine was poisoned. 
Yes, both. 

1396
01:06:51,930 --> 01:06:54,850
That's kind of interesting. 
I say, taking care of itself, 

1397
01:06:54,850 --> 01:06:58,970
But clearly there were actors 
behind the scenes here who paid 

1398
01:06:58,970 --> 01:07:02,850
for this to be done or who. 
Multiples if, if, if just like 

1399
01:07:02,850 --> 01:07:04,890
coincided. 
At the same time 2 assassination

1400
01:07:04,890 --> 01:07:07,170
attempts just to concur happened
at the same time. 

1401
01:07:07,890 --> 01:07:11,530
Was it Lord Donald? 
Plenty of people had motive, as 

1402
01:07:11,530 --> 01:07:13,330
we've seen, but he did most of 
all. 

1403
01:07:13,890 --> 01:07:15,810
He could easily be argued. 
I mean his city was losing 

1404
01:07:15,810 --> 01:07:18,170
wealth and prestige. 
He again, he didn't want the 

1405
01:07:18,170 --> 01:07:19,850
coronation to look to be held 
elsewhere. 

1406
01:07:19,850 --> 01:07:22,850
He didn't want to look weak. 
He might be Okay could be called

1407
01:07:22,850 --> 01:07:25,130
the Delayer, but he doesn't want
to be called Donald the the 

1408
01:07:25,130 --> 01:07:26,850
weak. 
You know that's not that's not 

1409
01:07:26,850 --> 01:07:29,330
Okay Oakart and Rowan could have
done it. 

1410
01:07:29,330 --> 01:07:31,730
Maybe they had Moon murdered to 
as a way to back down. 

1411
01:07:31,730 --> 01:07:33,330
But that's kind of hard to 
swallow. 

1412
01:07:33,330 --> 01:07:34,850
If they backed him in the 1st 
place. 

1413
01:07:34,850 --> 01:07:37,530
Like seems like they backed him 
because they were so pious. 

1414
01:07:37,730 --> 01:07:39,730
They're willing to stand up 
against the High Tower and then 

1415
01:07:39,730 --> 01:07:41,970
I'll then just back down all of 
a sudden with a murder. 

1416
01:07:41,970 --> 01:07:44,390
That doesn't really, that 
doesn't really work for me. 

1417
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:46,470
It's possible. 
I can't completely throw it out.

1418
01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:50,270
But Fire and Blood actually 
takes pains to point out that it

1419
01:07:50,270 --> 01:07:53,830
probably wasn't The Faceless Man
because of it wasn't very 

1420
01:07:53,830 --> 01:07:57,150
smooth. 
It was kind of, yeah, it was a 

1421
01:07:57,150 --> 01:08:01,630
little haphazard almost. 
But there is a supernatural 

1422
01:08:01,630 --> 01:08:04,070
element and it's definitely an 
assassination. 

1423
01:08:04,190 --> 01:08:05,830
I mean, there's a supernatural 
element suggested. 

1424
01:08:05,830 --> 01:08:07,670
It's possible. 
It's it's not guaranteed. 

1425
01:08:08,190 --> 01:08:10,800
This could explain the delay, 
You know, setting up an 

1426
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,640
assassination, figuring out 
who's going to do the deed, 

1427
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,080
arranging for this, finding the 
cat's paw. 

1428
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,840
And how to do that? 
That takes a minute. 

1429
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,439
You know, I don't think he just 
has assassins at the ready. 

1430
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,640
Or maybe he does, but still, you
got to have over this camp 

1431
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,680
follower infiltrate the camp and
do the things. 

1432
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:32,640
Again, if in general the high 
towers and Old Town are kind of 

1433
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:37,200
aware of the power of the flow 
of information, you might have a

1434
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,950
network of informants and spies.
Already knows there's a hit out 

1435
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:42,910
on him. 
That's why I'm delaying. 

1436
01:08:42,910 --> 01:08:44,790
I don't even need to do it. 
Someone else is already going to

1437
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:47,950
need to wait for it to happen. 
Yeah, it's a good point. 

1438
01:08:47,950 --> 01:08:48,910
Yeah. 
It's like this guy's going to 

1439
01:08:48,910 --> 01:08:50,510
die soon. 
It just, I don't know what day 

1440
01:08:50,510 --> 01:08:53,149
it's going to happen, but any 
day now, somebody's going to die

1441
01:08:53,149 --> 01:08:56,630
and then we'll be ready. 
Now we said you, Harris didn't 

1442
01:08:56,630 --> 01:09:02,910
want to be like Meg or, but his 
mom kind of did want to be a 

1443
01:09:02,910 --> 01:09:06,189
little Meg Orish to the people 
who had supported Meg or she 

1444
01:09:06,189 --> 01:09:09,149
wanted to do. 
Bring a little of that back. 

1445
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:11,479
But Jerry's is like, no, we're 
not doing that. 

1446
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,680
Even he's kind of stopped his 
mother from going too far with 

1447
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,120
that. 
He gave her a few things like 

1448
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:19,720
the hands of the people that 
tortured her son. 

1449
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,040
The series on Megor's orders and
the guy, the other Kings Guard 

1450
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,359
that we mentioned the one that 
helped Owen Bush kill Cerise 

1451
01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:28,680
Hightower, that was Maladon 
Moore, Sir. 

1452
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,439
Maladon Moore. 
It's another Kings Guard named 

1453
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:31,680
Moore who we have reason to 
hate. 

1454
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,399
Just like the one that almost 
killed Tyrion mended Moore. 

1455
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:38,960
So Malad and Moore was executed 
and his head given to. 

1456
01:09:41,149 --> 01:09:43,430
No, that's something too that I 
think makes a lot of sense for 

1457
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:47,430
Jahari is like not only sort of 
a precedent or forgiveness, 

1458
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:51,270
right that has a lot of value 
from like an optic standpoint or

1459
01:09:51,470 --> 01:09:54,830
whatever, but but also just the 
idea that I think you got to be 

1460
01:09:54,830 --> 01:09:58,870
kind of understanding that like 
2 months ago, whatever all of 

1461
01:09:58,870 --> 01:10:01,910
you were loyal to Megor just 
now, some of you finally 

1462
01:10:01,910 --> 01:10:03,430
revolted. 
These other people just didn't 

1463
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:05,910
have the chance, or we were 
closer to Megor some. 

1464
01:10:06,270 --> 01:10:08,790
And so it's it's hard to really 
find them as responsible. 

1465
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:11,790
Maybe some people who committed 
specific crimes, you're going to

1466
01:10:11,790 --> 01:10:14,710
have to punish them and maybe 
even those people do deserve it.

1467
01:10:14,710 --> 01:10:16,750
Like maybe they should have 
stood up to May for or if they 

1468
01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:18,790
thought they were doing the 
right thing because it was a 

1469
01:10:18,790 --> 01:10:21,670
can, they should be willing to 
face the punishment for you 

1470
01:10:21,670 --> 01:10:23,030
know, having done that. 
So. 

1471
01:10:23,710 --> 01:10:28,950
But I think this is on many 
levels good to Harris. 

1472
01:10:29,550 --> 01:10:32,350
I agree with you now. 
At the time, though, there would

1473
01:10:32,350 --> 01:10:37,950
have been some people that were 
worried because as bad as Meg or

1474
01:10:37,950 --> 01:10:40,430
was, it was Anus's mishandling 
of the faith that got the whole 

1475
01:10:40,430 --> 01:10:43,470
thing started and he was too 
soft rather than Meg or being 

1476
01:10:43,470 --> 01:10:46,150
too hard, right? 
Jerry's is the son of Anus. 

1477
01:10:46,150 --> 01:10:49,590
And then some people would have 
been like, oh, is this kid just 

1478
01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:52,310
going to be too soft like his 
dad, You know, Is he too 

1479
01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:53,270
peaceful? 
Is he? 

1480
01:10:53,270 --> 01:10:55,230
You know, So that was a little 
bit of a worry. 

1481
01:10:55,730 --> 01:10:57,930
They would have been maybe, Oh 
no, Is he going to be too soft 

1482
01:10:57,930 --> 01:11:00,250
on the Faith Militant or Septon 
Moon or some of these other 

1483
01:11:00,250 --> 01:11:02,730
rebel leaders? 
And they weren't wrong in some 

1484
01:11:02,730 --> 01:11:04,330
ways. 
They would have maybe seen fuel 

1485
01:11:04,330 --> 01:11:07,010
for this fire pretty quickly 
because who is the new Lord 

1486
01:11:07,010 --> 01:11:11,650
Commander of his Kings Guard, 
Giles Morgan, nephew of Damon 

1487
01:11:11,650 --> 01:11:14,810
the devout, the grand captain of
the Warriors Sons who died 

1488
01:11:14,810 --> 01:11:17,090
fighting Meg or in the trial by 
7:00. 

1489
01:11:17,730 --> 01:11:20,850
So that's a guy right there on 
the other side of things. 

1490
01:11:20,850 --> 01:11:23,410
And he just puts right in charge
of his personal protection. 

1491
01:11:23,770 --> 01:11:27,130
And then he invites the Red dog 
of the hills, The one who killed

1492
01:11:27,130 --> 01:11:30,970
Morgan Hightower made him a 
King's Guard. 

1493
01:11:31,370 --> 01:11:34,690
Super conciliatory move. 
That was big time. 

1494
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:36,490
Wow. 
Everybody's like, wow, what a 

1495
01:11:36,810 --> 01:11:39,170
that's brave too. 
Like giving this dude who wanted

1496
01:11:39,170 --> 01:11:42,250
to kill him and his family, 
letting him stand behind him and

1497
01:11:42,250 --> 01:11:44,250
guard him with a sword, you 
know, like allowing him to wield

1498
01:11:44,250 --> 01:11:45,450
a sword in his presence. 
That's. 

1499
01:11:45,930 --> 01:11:47,930
And it was. 
It was, it really worked. 

1500
01:11:47,930 --> 01:11:49,770
Like people were very moved by 
that none. 

1501
01:11:50,290 --> 01:11:54,250
The Red Dog, perhaps most of all
because he was a true believer 

1502
01:11:54,690 --> 01:11:58,290
and wanted things to work out 
and wasn't just after things for

1503
01:11:58,290 --> 01:12:01,690
himself or whatever. 
Anyway, so we have no idea who 

1504
01:12:01,690 --> 01:12:04,690
killed Septon Moon. 
I still think the Hightower is 

1505
01:12:05,170 --> 01:12:08,330
probably the most likely, but 
again, we're not sure. 

1506
01:12:09,570 --> 01:12:12,050
Megor's death caused at least a 
few to go home, as I said, 

1507
01:12:12,050 --> 01:12:14,050
because that's the one they 
wanted. 

1508
01:12:14,170 --> 01:12:19,050
Now after a brief power struggle
for the body of Septon Moon, 

1509
01:12:19,770 --> 01:12:22,850
which this is something out of 
the young guy plot. 

1510
01:12:22,850 --> 01:12:27,410
Remember they strapped Cleon the
Butcher to a horse and after he 

1511
01:12:27,410 --> 01:12:31,170
was dead and had him lead people
as a corpse strapped to him. 

1512
01:12:31,170 --> 01:12:32,850
But now this happened in the 
real world too, at least once or

1513
01:12:32,850 --> 01:12:35,370
twice. 
But it happened here too. 22 

1514
01:12:35,370 --> 01:12:39,090
poor fellows named Rob the 
Starling and another name Lorcas

1515
01:12:39,090 --> 01:12:43,210
the Learned took over and 
claimed the body of Stepton Moon

1516
01:12:43,210 --> 01:12:45,930
strapped to a horse and 
assaulted the Old Town Lorcas. 

1517
01:12:45,930 --> 01:12:50,010
The Learned was called that 
because he had the entire 7 

1518
01:12:50,010 --> 01:12:54,260
pointed star memorized, but it 
doesn't seem like he he was very

1519
01:12:54,260 --> 01:12:56,180
smart. 
He was getting great memory but 

1520
01:12:56,180 --> 01:12:57,860
wasn't very smart. 
Anyway, he. 

1521
01:12:58,580 --> 01:13:01,820
Intelligent but not wise. 
He was burned to death by pitch 

1522
01:13:01,820 --> 01:13:05,740
or oil during the assault on the
walls of Old Town, and some of 

1523
01:13:05,740 --> 01:13:10,140
Lord Donald's Knights then burst
forth from the gates, took 

1524
01:13:10,140 --> 01:13:14,740
Septon Moon's body, cut off the 
head, and delivered it to the 

1525
01:13:14,740 --> 01:13:21,420
high licks or bicep. 
After that, Lord's Oakard and 

1526
01:13:21,420 --> 01:13:26,040
Rowan were like peace out. 
They went home and that left 

1527
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,840
only a few 100 super zealots 
behind, most of them being kind 

1528
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,680
of rabble in terms of their 
fighting skills, unwilling to 

1529
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,880
give up, still somehow believing
they'd win thanks to the seven. 

1530
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,120
I guess like 7 will be our 
swords. 

1531
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,080
Like that's true belief. 
I guess then Lord Donald Lair is

1532
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,480
like, all right now we can 
emerge with some soldiers and 

1533
01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:47,080
crush these these rabble that 
are left behind. 

1534
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:48,960
And I guess you want to be 
thorough. 

1535
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,000
You can't have all this just 
here when the King's coming with

1536
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,840
his coronation party, right? 
He could also tout his crushing 

1537
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:57,800
victory, his absolute victory. 
Like what? 

1538
01:13:57,800 --> 01:13:59,680
We totally took those rebels 
down, right? 

1539
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,680
Knows how to play the media 
after all this, right? 

1540
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,160
So the equivalent of media I'm 
using finger quotes a lot this 

1541
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:10,640
episode if Lord Donald had 
concerns about Jerry's reign 

1542
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,680
regarding the his potential 
softness because this is still 

1543
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:17,180
before the the King's guard 
thing with Jeffrey Dogger, which

1544
01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:19,140
happened during the coronation. 
So that's that's like right 

1545
01:14:19,300 --> 01:14:23,060
right now basically. 
He would have probably acted 

1546
01:14:23,060 --> 01:14:25,020
quickly though and his nickname 
does fit. 

1547
01:14:25,020 --> 01:14:28,020
Of course that's probably more 
likely what he did wait to see 

1548
01:14:28,020 --> 01:14:31,340
how things would play out 
because indeed Jerry's was not 

1549
01:14:31,540 --> 01:14:34,540
he wasn't weak. 
It had the his version of peace 

1550
01:14:34,540 --> 01:14:37,100
had steel behind it, steel and 
dragon fire, the threat of it, 

1551
01:14:37,100 --> 01:14:41,930
but he kept it as a threat. 
He didn't use it, so Donald 

1552
01:14:41,930 --> 01:14:43,650
Lalare may have been able to 
figure that out. 

1553
01:14:43,650 --> 01:14:46,930
If he's a he later, we're going 
to have people talk about how 

1554
01:14:46,930 --> 01:14:50,170
smart he is, how cunning he is, 
how shrewd he is, how disloyal 

1555
01:14:50,170 --> 01:14:53,170
he is. 
But no one seems to question his

1556
01:14:53,170 --> 01:14:55,570
intelligence. 
So if he got a handle on Jerry's

1557
01:14:55,570 --> 01:15:00,210
with Jerry's there in his city, 
talking to him, having his 

1558
01:15:00,210 --> 01:15:03,530
coronation, having dinners and 
this and that. 

1559
01:15:03,650 --> 01:15:07,250
And taking the measure of the. 
Man, as we say, I would think 

1560
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:10,810
Donald would have felt pretty 
good about the way things were 

1561
01:15:10,810 --> 01:15:12,650
going. 
Although maybe but he still 

1562
01:15:12,650 --> 01:15:15,290
would of course wanted to 
maintain and get a handle on his

1563
01:15:15,290 --> 01:15:18,890
ambitions and made sure that 
yes, this will be a good king. 

1564
01:15:18,890 --> 01:15:20,930
But how can I make use of that? 
How can this benefit? 

1565
01:15:21,050 --> 01:15:22,690
Because it's not just about, oh,
he's going to leave us alone. 

1566
01:15:22,690 --> 01:15:26,770
It's like no, how can this guy 
enrich us right now. 

1567
01:15:26,770 --> 01:15:29,370
Of course, though Joe Harris is 
only 614 at this point, as as 

1568
01:15:29,370 --> 01:15:32,330
you asked me before Sean. 
So he's not he doesn't have his 

1569
01:15:32,330 --> 01:15:35,490
age of majority so he can't just
necessarily give orders. 

1570
01:15:35,490 --> 01:15:38,770
Yet he's he's not 16. 
So this created a bit of a 

1571
01:15:38,770 --> 01:15:42,020
problem because you don't want 
to go against the guy who's 

1572
01:15:42,020 --> 01:15:44,300
going to be the king at 16 
because he might punish you for 

1573
01:15:44,300 --> 01:15:46,540
not giving him what he wanted 
when he was underage. 

1574
01:15:47,340 --> 01:15:49,660
And if you can only delay the 
inevitable, he's like, well, as 

1575
01:15:49,660 --> 01:15:50,820
soon as I'm 16, I'm going to do 
this. 

1576
01:15:50,820 --> 01:15:52,300
Why? 
What's the point in holding? 

1577
01:15:52,300 --> 01:15:53,660
I'll just do it now. 
Right. 

1578
01:15:53,660 --> 01:15:56,500
So a lot of people just going to
do what he wants unless it's 

1579
01:15:56,500 --> 01:16:00,300
crazy. 
But Lord Rogar Baratheon, this 

1580
01:16:00,300 --> 01:16:01,700
is when he starts to come to the
fore. 

1581
01:16:01,700 --> 01:16:05,500
And it's like, well, I haven't 
forgotten that you're a teenager

1582
01:16:06,060 --> 01:16:09,450
and and there's still a lot of 
things that Jerry's ended up 

1583
01:16:09,450 --> 01:16:12,970
doing that worked that might 
have seemed risky because they 

1584
01:16:12,970 --> 01:16:17,570
were just over the top, brave, 
peaceful things to do that no 

1585
01:16:17,570 --> 01:16:20,530
one had really done before. 
And well, yeah, you couldn't be 

1586
01:16:20,530 --> 01:16:22,930
sure they would have worked. 
And a lot of these guys are very

1587
01:16:22,930 --> 01:16:24,330
conservative. 
They're used to the way things 

1588
01:16:24,330 --> 01:16:26,450
have been. 
And Jerry says this vision for 

1589
01:16:26,450 --> 01:16:29,610
doing things differently, that's
it might not have sat well with 

1590
01:16:29,610 --> 01:16:31,370
some people. 
Certainly Lord Rogar, one of 

1591
01:16:31,370 --> 01:16:32,970
them. 
And Lord Rogar had a lot of 

1592
01:16:32,970 --> 01:16:34,690
push. 
He's the Lord of Storms and he's

1593
01:16:34,690 --> 01:16:36,410
brave. 
He stood up to Megor and he 

1594
01:16:36,410 --> 01:16:38,170
married. 
Or is about to. 

1595
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:41,990
This hasn't quite happened yet. 
He's going to marry Jerry's 

1596
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:45,390
mother, Alyssa, so that also 
kind of makes him like a father 

1597
01:16:45,390 --> 01:16:49,710
figureish of sorts. 
So late in 48 A/C, the 

1598
01:16:49,710 --> 01:16:52,910
coronation became official. 
It happened at the starry step, 

1599
01:16:52,910 --> 01:16:55,110
like the three Targaryen kings 
before him, the high licks. 

1600
01:16:55,110 --> 01:16:57,670
Biddle put the crown on Jerry's 
head. 

1601
01:16:58,550 --> 01:17:02,190
He immediately rescinded Megor's
bounties, but refused to 

1602
01:17:02,190 --> 01:17:06,350
reinstate the swords and stars. 
So that's important, he said, 

1603
01:17:07,270 --> 01:17:10,110
you know, the crown will protect
the faithful from here on out. 

1604
01:17:10,150 --> 01:17:11,590
We don't need the stars and 
swords anymore. 

1605
01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:14,630
He didn't say Meg or was right 
about that much, but he was kind

1606
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:18,390
of saying that. 
I wonder if Lord Donald wanted 

1607
01:17:18,390 --> 01:17:19,670
that or not. 
Lord Donald may have been like, 

1608
01:17:19,670 --> 01:17:22,230
yeah, we don't want the stars 
and swords either, but he 

1609
01:17:22,230 --> 01:17:23,630
already. 
But he might be like actually we

1610
01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:26,470
do want them. 
I kind of think he didn't, but 

1611
01:17:26,670 --> 01:17:29,790
I'm not sure because like there 
was a long so many high towers 

1612
01:17:29,790 --> 01:17:32,510
had been like grand captains and
high-ranking guys in that 

1613
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:34,860
organization. 
I might think they want that 

1614
01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:36,580
back because it gives them some 
extra power. 

1615
01:17:36,580 --> 01:17:38,180
On the other hand, it's not like
he lacks for soldiers. 

1616
01:17:38,180 --> 01:17:40,740
He could still have plenty of 
men. 

1617
01:17:40,740 --> 01:17:42,980
The population increase under 
Giharrius would have given him 

1618
01:17:42,980 --> 01:17:46,140
just more soldiers. 
Altogether it it's hard to see 

1619
01:17:46,140 --> 01:17:47,860
how he would weigh these scales 
here. 

1620
01:17:48,820 --> 01:17:51,660
My my thought on this is that 
it's not want it or don't want 

1621
01:17:51,660 --> 01:17:53,700
it. 
It's like it's not like 0 or 

1622
01:17:53,700 --> 01:17:56,220
100. 
It's like it might just not 

1623
01:17:56,220 --> 01:17:59,180
necessarily even zero to 100. 
It's not necessarily 5050, It 

1624
01:17:59,180 --> 01:18:01,940
might have been like 6060 like 
that, I have. 

1625
01:18:02,300 --> 01:18:05,900
Certain pros and cons to either 
way and so whatever the King 

1626
01:18:05,900 --> 01:18:07,900
wants, I'm happy to go along 
with it because I can make the 

1627
01:18:07,900 --> 01:18:10,260
best of it either way. 
Yeah, good point, good point. 

1628
01:18:10,940 --> 01:18:14,500
So the coronation was a seven 
day event, big fancy party and 

1629
01:18:14,500 --> 01:18:16,780
Jerry stayed for 9 days 
afterwards. 

1630
01:18:17,580 --> 01:18:19,500
That's when some of these 
conversations with the Lord of 

1631
01:18:19,500 --> 01:18:22,940
the Hightower, what happened? 
Surely one other very 

1632
01:18:22,940 --> 01:18:26,220
interesting thing that happened 
during this time was Rayella who

1633
01:18:26,220 --> 01:18:29,740
was already give was given to 
the faith under Megor's rule 

1634
01:18:30,470 --> 01:18:32,110
remain. 
She was like yeah I'm I'm a 

1635
01:18:32,110 --> 01:18:34,670
SEPTA, I'm going to stay that 
except that she didn't remain. 

1636
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:40,430
Aria and Rayela were twins and 
it appears that Alyssa swapped 

1637
01:18:40,430 --> 01:18:46,150
them because Aria was had been 
the soft spoken one and was 

1638
01:18:46,150 --> 01:18:51,870
quiet and and more suited for 
being a SEPTA, whereas Rayela 

1639
01:18:51,870 --> 01:18:57,030
was the aggressive like 
tomboyish like brave and bold 

1640
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:59,920
one. 
Henceforth those distinctions 

1641
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:02,840
are reversed. 
Area is the one who steals 

1642
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:05,680
Balarion and runs away. 
So that's how we're like yeah, 

1643
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,400
that well, that wasn't the soft 
meek one that stole Balarion. 

1644
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,400
Is that something, by the way, 
that, like the community has 

1645
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,120
figured out, must be the case? 
It's pretty, it's pretty widely 

1646
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,080
believed. 
It's it's all but believed in 

1647
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:20,200
the text of fire and blood. 
Yeah. 

1648
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,280
Do you think though, that the 
people of this time period? 

1649
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:26,800
Realize it. 
Are they playing along with it 

1650
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:28,360
or they covering? 
Yeah, I think they knew. 

1651
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:29,520
Yeah, I think almost everybody 
knew. 

1652
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,080
Like, maybe not like the 
commenters didn't. 

1653
01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:34,080
I don't think they knew. 
But the Lords, Yeah, because the

1654
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,080
person eyes are so different. 
And anyone who would have heard 

1655
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:37,120
about it would have been like, 
huh. 

1656
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,280
And it would have been like a 
dramatic little rumor spreading 

1657
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,840
around. 
And yeah, I'm pretty sure, yeah,

1658
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:43,520
it seems like people knew. 
And then the Lord of the High 

1659
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:46,280
Tower would have known. 
Maybe not until after the fact, 

1660
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:48,400
because I don't think they would
have needed his involvement for 

1661
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,120
this. 
It just a mother with her two 

1662
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,400
daughters alone. 
Tell them to switch clothes. 

1663
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,220
And then was going to know. 
I mean maybe some serving 

1664
01:19:55,220 --> 01:19:58,500
people, which that is that's 
something you know, serving 

1665
01:19:58,500 --> 01:20:00,900
people. 
But but there's no, like, I 

1666
01:20:00,900 --> 01:20:05,060
don't see a benefit to Lord 
Hightower here other than like 

1667
01:20:05,060 --> 01:20:06,620
maybe he could make use of that 
information later. 

1668
01:20:06,620 --> 01:20:09,340
It's like I know that there like
maybe that could be abuse to him

1669
01:20:09,340 --> 01:20:12,260
later to know that secret. 
But in the short term, there's 

1670
01:20:13,060 --> 01:20:15,620
something to be done about it. 
It's just maybe something good 

1671
01:20:15,980 --> 01:20:17,460
for down the line. 
Keep that in your pocket. 

1672
01:20:17,460 --> 01:20:20,740
Keep that on the shelf. 
So that's interesting. 

1673
01:20:20,740 --> 01:20:22,460
Now the high licks. 
Bill himself wouldn't have 

1674
01:20:22,460 --> 01:20:24,790
complained. 
Because he's the Highlix bill 

1675
01:20:24,790 --> 01:20:25,950
and he just goes along with 
things. 

1676
01:20:25,950 --> 01:20:31,630
But you know they are swapping a
child who's SEPTA, so you can 

1677
01:20:31,630 --> 01:20:35,030
see why it might have mattered. 
But they gain a SEPTA, lose a 

1678
01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:37,910
SEPTA, they break even. 
And they gain someone who's more

1679
01:20:38,270 --> 01:20:39,790
more like willing to be one, 
too. 

1680
01:20:40,310 --> 01:20:43,830
Where someone who will be more 
of what they want from A Yeah, 

1681
01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:46,150
and it did. 
As far as we know that did kind 

1682
01:20:46,150 --> 01:20:47,630
of work out. 
Look except for stealing 

1683
01:20:47,630 --> 01:20:51,430
Valeria, that part didn't. 
But for for Rael, the Sept part 

1684
01:20:51,430 --> 01:20:54,120
worked out. 
Something worse might have 

1685
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,480
happened the other way if they 
hadn't made the switch, right? 

1686
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,920
Yeah, or many different things. 
Maybe not a single thing that 

1687
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:02,000
bad, but many different smaller 
things might have kept going 

1688
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:03,280
wrong. 
It would have added up to work. 

1689
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,200
Hard to know for sure, but yes, 
it would have been would have 

1690
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:07,440
been different. 
In the second year of Jerry's 

1691
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:08,960
reign the Golden Wedding took 
place. 

1692
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,560
That was of course the marriage 
of his mother, who was also his 

1693
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:15,240
Regents, Queen Alyssa, that is, 
to his hand, Lord Rogar. 

1694
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:18,200
Can I say my favorite story 
about the Golden Wedding 

1695
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:19,760
wedding? 
Oh yes, you should. 

1696
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:23,240
Which is that? 
In our interview with George RR 

1697
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:26,600
Martin, we were talking to him 
and he mentions the Golden 

1698
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,480
Wedding. 
We just kept talking to him and 

1699
01:21:29,480 --> 01:21:32,240
someone in the comments on that 
thing was like, did he just 

1700
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:35,360
mention something and they just 
like, blew past it? 

1701
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:37,400
Like this new What is the Golden
Wedding? 

1702
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:38,840
Is this something that's 
happening in The Winds of 

1703
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:41,200
Winter, like all this? 
Like how could they not ask you 

1704
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,400
more about? 
That ask you more about it and I

1705
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:46,050
was like, yo. 
You could have just googled 

1706
01:21:46,050 --> 01:21:49,170
Golden Wedding and you would 
have bound that this is a very 

1707
01:21:49,210 --> 01:21:51,770
real current. 
But anyways, every time I hear a

1708
01:21:51,770 --> 01:21:53,450
Golden Wedding, I think about 
that person. 

1709
01:21:53,450 --> 01:21:55,410
What will be the next color 
wedding too we got? 

1710
01:21:55,490 --> 01:21:59,610
Golden, Purple, Red, Yeah. 
Speaking of Red Wedding, I'll 

1711
01:21:59,610 --> 01:22:03,170
shout out my Friday Crusader 
Kings 3 stream set in the realm 

1712
01:22:03,210 --> 01:22:08,570
of A Song of Ice and Fire, which
they've added a new DLC that 

1713
01:22:09,050 --> 01:22:13,010
increases the amount of events 
and and role play that happens 

1714
01:22:13,010 --> 01:22:17,440
during social events like 
weddings and now massacre 

1715
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:20,360
weddings are are like a feature.
You can. 

1716
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:22,800
When you say you want to plan a 
wedding, it's like a regular 

1717
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:27,080
wedding or a you can't just, 
like, do it. 

1718
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:28,240
You have to have certain 
conditions. 

1719
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,320
But still, it's like, I was 
like, whoa, this is an option. 

1720
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,200
Cool. 
So I'm, I'm excited to one day 

1721
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:37,360
have do that, you know, figure 
out who I want to do that too. 

1722
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:42,920
But anyway, back to this. 
Lord Donald did come to this 

1723
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:44,010
wedding. 
It's a golden wedding. 

1724
01:22:44,010 --> 01:22:46,290
We're not sure about some of 
these other events, but he 

1725
01:22:46,290 --> 01:22:50,170
showed up with 100 nights, 77 
most about, and the high licks 

1726
01:22:50,170 --> 01:22:53,450
fiddle a major opportunity to 
schmooze with other elites. 

1727
01:22:53,850 --> 01:22:56,290
Lord Donald would have had those
wanting to speak with him, and 

1728
01:22:56,290 --> 01:22:59,370
likewise, you know, to get in 
his good graces in him. 

1729
01:22:59,370 --> 01:23:02,250
With them, you know, this is 
tournament of Heron Hall Ish, 

1730
01:23:02,490 --> 01:23:05,330
with less reason for obvious 
conspiracies like no one's. 

1731
01:23:05,530 --> 01:23:07,530
I doubt anyone's trying to 
overthrow Jerry's at this point.

1732
01:23:07,530 --> 01:23:09,810
It's a new round, new reign. 
It's going pretty well so far. 

1733
01:23:09,810 --> 01:23:10,930
Who are they going to replace 
him with? 

1734
01:23:11,330 --> 01:23:13,810
Besides, maybe Reina. 
But I don't know why you would 

1735
01:23:13,810 --> 01:23:16,970
want to replace him with Rena at
this point, except for Rena 

1736
01:23:16,970 --> 01:23:20,370
herself maybe. 
It's Heron Holish. 

1737
01:23:20,410 --> 01:23:23,370
And that we have all these key 
leaders from different lands, 

1738
01:23:23,930 --> 01:23:26,410
but not Heron Holish. 
And that they're meeting there 

1739
01:23:26,410 --> 01:23:28,770
for some conspiracy, right. 
There's no Aries to overthrow 

1740
01:23:28,770 --> 01:23:29,370
here. 
Yeah. 

1741
01:23:29,370 --> 01:23:31,930
And this is part of around the 
same time when a lot of Lords 

1742
01:23:31,930 --> 01:23:34,010
met Jerry for the first time. 
They come to the Golden Wedding 

1743
01:23:34,010 --> 01:23:36,130
and they hadn't met him yet 
because I don't like the Lord 

1744
01:23:36,130 --> 01:23:38,770
Stark was sick. 
He was old. 

1745
01:23:38,770 --> 01:23:40,890
We talked about this in our 
Under the Dragons episode for 

1746
01:23:40,890 --> 01:23:45,010
the North and he came and he's 
one of the most loudly quoted. 

1747
01:23:45,010 --> 01:23:46,770
He's like I see because he's old
enough. 

1748
01:23:46,770 --> 01:23:48,690
He's like I see some of his 
grandfather in him hanging on 

1749
01:23:48,690 --> 01:23:52,170
the Conqueror. 
So he gave a huge compliment and

1750
01:23:52,290 --> 01:23:54,050
a bunch of Lords gave 
compliments. 

1751
01:23:54,050 --> 01:23:57,650
We get a list of them in fire 
and blood of of of high-ranking 

1752
01:23:57,650 --> 01:23:59,210
Lord saying great things about 
you. 

1753
01:23:59,210 --> 01:24:01,530
Harry's Lord. 
Donald isn't one of them, just 

1754
01:24:01,530 --> 01:24:03,210
point that out. 
He's not quoted here. 

1755
01:24:03,210 --> 01:24:06,890
He is quoted in other places but
not his regards to his thoughts 

1756
01:24:06,890 --> 01:24:09,330
on Jerry's. 
Seems like the kind that would 

1757
01:24:09,890 --> 01:24:11,850
keep his opinion to himself on a
lot of things, but. 

1758
01:24:11,850 --> 01:24:14,850
But maybe not. 
So again, Alyssa wanted revenge 

1759
01:24:14,850 --> 01:24:20,690
on those who followed Megor, and
she had to sort of walk her own 

1760
01:24:20,690 --> 01:24:23,730
tightrope walk. 
As we said, she didn't want the 

1761
01:24:23,730 --> 01:24:26,210
comparisons to Annie's because 
Annie's was too soft. 

1762
01:24:26,210 --> 01:24:27,450
She didn't want Jerry to be seen
that way. 

1763
01:24:27,450 --> 01:24:31,290
So she must have been pleased 
that all this acclaim for him, 

1764
01:24:31,410 --> 01:24:34,290
seeing all the Lords come and 
and be pleased. 

1765
01:24:34,290 --> 01:24:38,010
And that would probably take 
away some of her worry about her

1766
01:24:38,010 --> 01:24:43,950
son being viewed that way, as 
well as how she perceived what 

1767
01:24:43,950 --> 01:24:45,670
would be done to Meg or his 
former supporters. 

1768
01:24:46,430 --> 01:24:48,030
He wasn't naive about loyalty to
them. 

1769
01:24:48,030 --> 01:24:51,430
Yes, he accepted them back in 
the fold, but he took hostages 

1770
01:24:51,550 --> 01:24:53,950
from those families. 
So that would have been like, 

1771
01:24:53,950 --> 01:24:56,550
OK, So she would have seen them 
like, OK, he's, he's no fool. 

1772
01:24:57,670 --> 01:24:59,590
And I very much wonder what the 
Hightower thought of this. 

1773
01:24:59,590 --> 01:25:01,910
This may have. 
They would have seen the 

1774
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:05,910
smartness of that, the the lack 
of you know, they wouldn't. 

1775
01:25:06,310 --> 01:25:09,070
There's no blind trust here, 
right? 

1776
01:25:09,070 --> 01:25:10,910
They wouldn't. 
They don't see examples of 

1777
01:25:10,910 --> 01:25:14,030
foolish behavior like that. 
If they were involved in any 

1778
01:25:14,030 --> 01:25:19,990
behind the scenes conspiracies 
to topple Megor if they had 

1779
01:25:19,990 --> 01:25:23,030
been, then they would have seen 
that vengeance had been 

1780
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:25,670
satisfied on the issue of 
Cerise, if he even cared, which 

1781
01:25:25,670 --> 01:25:28,350
he might not have, but some of 
the High Towers probably did. 

1782
01:25:28,350 --> 01:25:32,390
It's a large family and Cerise 
would have had some, you know, 

1783
01:25:32,510 --> 01:25:37,740
people that cared and not to 
mention Eleanor Costain in 

1784
01:25:37,740 --> 01:25:39,500
general. 
It appeared Jerry was capable of

1785
01:25:39,580 --> 01:25:42,100
of being a just king though 
handling justice well without 

1786
01:25:42,100 --> 01:25:44,940
going too far or too soft. 
Maybe that would have settled 

1787
01:25:44,940 --> 01:25:48,540
the issue with the High towers 
and however, there's just little

1788
01:25:48,540 --> 01:25:51,140
direct involvement here in this 
early part of his reign from the

1789
01:25:51,140 --> 01:25:52,740
High Towers. 
There's no counselors or King's 

1790
01:25:52,740 --> 01:25:56,500
guard that we know of. 
Now it's easier to to use 

1791
01:25:56,500 --> 01:25:59,980
nepotism to get your family to 
have jobs and things like the 

1792
01:25:59,980 --> 01:26:03,540
face and the most devout things 
like that that are more 

1793
01:26:03,540 --> 01:26:05,540
elections and and bribery can be
played. 

1794
01:26:05,540 --> 01:26:06,780
But you can't really do that 
with the King's Guard. 

1795
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:09,960
Can't really just be like hey 
Jay Harry's here. 

1796
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:12,920
Put our son on the King's guard.
You know it's not it doesn't 

1797
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,840
really work like that. 
So you I guess no one was just 

1798
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,200
up for it or no one was good 
enough. 

1799
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:20,440
I mean just quite possibly none 
of the high towers of this era 

1800
01:26:20,440 --> 01:26:21,920
were capable of being a King's 
guard. 

1801
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:24,920
So they were kind of out of 
royal business. 

1802
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:26,960
At least they kept it at a 
distance for a little while 

1803
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:28,480
here. 
Now of course, later they're 

1804
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:31,120
going to get back into it big 
time with Auto, but we're a ways

1805
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,800
from Auto Hightower still and it
seems that the feeling might 

1806
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:37,630
have been mutual. 
Though this quotes here is what 

1807
01:26:37,630 --> 01:26:41,870
we hear when Jerry's predictably
considered the rich Hightowers 

1808
01:26:41,990 --> 01:26:46,030
for the position of Mastercoin. 
It looked longer at certain 

1809
01:26:46,030 --> 01:26:49,110
cousins and uncles of Donald 
Hightower, for the wealth of Old

1810
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:51,590
Town derived from trade rather 
than the ground. 

1811
01:26:52,110 --> 01:26:55,230
But the uncertain loyalties of 
Donald the Delair, when face was

1812
01:26:55,230 --> 01:26:58,550
set to moon, gave him pause and 
note that he wasn't considering 

1813
01:26:58,550 --> 01:27:01,270
Lord Donald himself. 
Even the connection to Lord 

1814
01:27:01,270 --> 01:27:05,190
Donald gave him pause, as it 
says gave him reason to second 

1815
01:27:05,190 --> 01:27:07,870
guess himself. 
I do want to read too much into 

1816
01:27:07,870 --> 01:27:10,230
this. 
I do want to read that he didn't

1817
01:27:10,230 --> 01:27:12,990
trust anyone, even other high 
towers, because of Lord Donald 

1818
01:27:12,990 --> 01:27:14,590
was like, well, this Lord 
Donald, as long as he's in 

1819
01:27:14,590 --> 01:27:16,430
charge, we can't trust any high 
tower. 

1820
01:27:16,430 --> 01:27:19,750
I was like, it may not have been
that bad, but that's kind of 

1821
01:27:19,750 --> 01:27:21,630
what this quote says. 
He's like he didn't want to hire

1822
01:27:21,630 --> 01:27:23,790
any of the high towers because 
of Donald. 

1823
01:27:25,870 --> 01:27:29,270
I once again want to. 
I want to read some extra into 

1824
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:32,650
this too maybe. 
He might not have distrusted 

1825
01:27:32,650 --> 01:27:36,130
Donald or his cohort so much as 
he knew other people would. 

1826
01:27:36,610 --> 01:27:39,130
It might have been a bad signal 
to other people and they just 

1827
01:27:39,130 --> 01:27:42,450
couldn't do it. 
Especially if you consider from 

1828
01:27:42,450 --> 01:27:45,730
either angle, Donald might have 
already had his hands pretty 

1829
01:27:45,730 --> 01:27:47,610
deep into the business of master
coin. 

1830
01:27:48,050 --> 01:27:50,530
So, like, look man, I don't need
to appoint you, you're pretty 

1831
01:27:50,530 --> 01:27:53,930
much master Coin anyway. 
In fact, when I appoint the 

1832
01:27:53,930 --> 01:27:56,450
master Coin, I'm just going to 
have him report to you like you 

1833
01:27:56,450 --> 01:27:59,050
can see how he might have even 
effectively still been. 

1834
01:27:59,480 --> 01:28:02,600
Making Donald a master of coin, 
or indirectly or whatever. 

1835
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,280
Anyway, one thing Jerry said, I 
think this was a little later in

1836
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:06,520
his reign. 
We're not sure when this 

1837
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:10,120
happened, and this is maybe 
something that that the Lord 

1838
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:11,800
Hightower would consider an 
overreach. 

1839
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:14,760
He replaced Old Town's harbor 
master. 

1840
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,760
That's you would think that's 
normally something you would do.

1841
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:19,680
The Hightower would be in charge
of that, but Jerry's. 

1842
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,120
Just you think the Lord of Port 
would be in charge of that? 

1843
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,320
Exactly. 
So he also did that in 

1844
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,360
Maidenpool and Dunscandale. 
Now Duncandale is in the Crown 

1845
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:30,240
Land, so that's a little, but 
still that's you would think 

1846
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:34,600
that the Lord, Lord Darkland 
would do that and it made bull, 

1847
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:36,720
it would be Lord mood. 
So that was kind of interesting 

1848
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:39,640
and and it's not said exactly 
why, but the strong hint is that

1849
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:41,120
it's for corruption, because of 
corruption. 

1850
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:44,320
You know, that might be seen as 
an overreach, but once again, 

1851
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:45,880
that coming from a different 
angle. 

1852
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:47,840
It might have been a relief to 
Donald. 

1853
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:49,760
Donald might have known there 
was this corruption. 

1854
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,120
He couldn't make a move against 
it. 

1855
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:55,120
He would have family members 
involved or alliances that would

1856
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,760
get data. 
Sorry, the king, the king said. 

1857
01:29:05,120 --> 01:28:59,600
It is possible? 
Sorry, dude, I can't help you, 

1858
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:01,160
the king said. 
You know, he might have been 

1859
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:04,520
relieved of this responsibility 
for dealing with this tough. 

1860
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,320
Yeah, definitely possible. 
Especially if there didn't seem 

1861
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:09,840
to be any negative fallout from 
it, right? 

1862
01:29:10,200 --> 01:29:11,640
Not that we know of. 
Yeah. 

1863
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:15,200
One of the mysteries of Harris 
and Allison's marriage is how 

1864
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:21,720
Allison found out that the 
Regent and queen or the hand and

1865
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:23,560
queen weren't going to allow 
them to marry. 

1866
01:29:24,110 --> 01:29:25,870
So Jerry was like, I'm going to 
marry my sister. 

1867
01:29:26,470 --> 01:29:29,430
But they found out that they 
were like, no, you're not going 

1868
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:31,550
to do that. 
We can't have brother and sister

1869
01:29:31,550 --> 01:29:33,310
marriage again. 
That's we're not going down that

1870
01:29:33,310 --> 01:29:34,390
road again. 
That's terrible. 

1871
01:29:34,390 --> 01:29:35,830
Like we. 
This is part of how this all got

1872
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:37,070
started. 
Are you fools? 

1873
01:29:37,710 --> 01:29:39,910
I throw the high towers in the 
ring as possible informants. 

1874
01:29:39,910 --> 01:29:42,950
Allison found out that they were
going to break them up and that 

1875
01:29:43,270 --> 01:29:46,150
Jerry's acted and they ran away 
together and basically eloped. 

1876
01:29:46,150 --> 01:29:51,880
And Jerry's because he's 
charismatic and smart kid, got 

1877
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:55,120
his King's guard on his side and
the kings were like, no, yeah, 

1878
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:56,520
you're the hand, you're the 
Regent. 

1879
01:29:57,720 --> 01:29:59,440
Doesn't matter. 
We follow the king. 

1880
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:01,840
Yeah, he's underage, but doesn't
matter. 

1881
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:03,200
We don't care. 
We're following the king. 

1882
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:06,680
So they stood him down. 
This was the what, what I call 

1883
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:09,560
the new old Tower of Joy, 
because it was a very, very much

1884
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,040
tower of joy. 
The King's guard, you know, 

1885
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,120
holding on to a marriage and the
defending these guys against the

1886
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:16,640
people, trying to break them 
apart. 

1887
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:21,450
And we have an episode on that 
none of the top houses wanted to

1888
01:30:21,450 --> 01:30:24,530
see another top house marry the 
throne bypassing the prestige. 

1889
01:30:24,530 --> 01:30:26,210
Like the hightowers don't want 
the Valerians to marry the 

1890
01:30:26,210 --> 01:30:27,210
throne. 
The Valerians don't want the 

1891
01:30:27,210 --> 01:30:29,450
Hightowers to marry. 
None of them wanted that edge to

1892
01:30:29,450 --> 01:30:31,730
go to someone else. 
When you're in that like elite 

1893
01:30:31,730 --> 01:30:34,930
group of 10 or 12 houses that 
are near the top none of them 

1894
01:30:34,930 --> 01:30:36,770
wanted the others to get that 
edge over them. 

1895
01:30:37,210 --> 01:30:40,690
So you can see why hey if I'm 
the Hightower and it's 

1896
01:30:40,690 --> 01:30:43,290
definitely not going to be us 
that gets this royal marriage 

1897
01:30:43,290 --> 01:30:46,250
then let's let it be no one so 
you can see why they would want 

1898
01:30:46,250 --> 01:30:48,510
to undermine. 
Now there's the other great 

1899
01:30:48,510 --> 01:30:52,830
houses could also be here in 
this so there's plenty of 

1900
01:30:52,830 --> 01:30:56,310
culprit to be sure it's just you
know we we're we're guessing the

1901
01:30:56,310 --> 01:30:57,670
high towers are there are 
they're on the list 

1902
01:30:57,670 --> 01:30:59,550
possibilities here but we don't 
have any direct evidence that 

1903
01:30:59,550 --> 01:31:02,070
they got involved. 
It's notable that the High licks

1904
01:31:02,070 --> 01:31:05,030
bill had no objections to 
Jerry's and Allison's marriage. 

1905
01:31:05,670 --> 01:31:07,670
But a different high Septon 
might have. 

1906
01:31:07,670 --> 01:31:11,190
So that's yeah. 
Now some someone who was 

1907
01:31:11,190 --> 01:31:13,550
definitely against this wedding 
was Septon. 

1908
01:31:13,550 --> 01:31:18,110
Matheus Matheus was a supposed, 
the descendant of the Gardner 

1909
01:31:18,110 --> 01:31:23,030
kings who stuck stuck around. 
He was a big large guy, very 

1910
01:31:23,030 --> 01:31:27,350
booming voice. 
He got so loud about it that 

1911
01:31:27,350 --> 01:31:28,470
Jahari's actually threatened 
him. 

1912
01:31:28,470 --> 01:31:31,870
He's like, keep running your 
mouth about my wife and I'm 

1913
01:31:31,870 --> 01:31:34,310
going to sew your lips shut. 
And this is not how Jahari's 

1914
01:31:34,310 --> 01:31:36,310
normally talks, right. 
We've talked about how he's like

1915
01:31:36,550 --> 01:31:38,310
the conciliator. 
That's not a very conciliating 

1916
01:31:38,310 --> 01:31:40,150
thing to say. 
And then he then he sent him 

1917
01:31:40,150 --> 01:31:40,950
home. 
He's like you. 

1918
01:31:41,510 --> 01:31:44,390
You're out of here. 
But this is not the last we'll 

1919
01:31:44,390 --> 01:31:47,070
hear from Matthias. 
Because where is out of here for

1920
01:31:47,070 --> 01:31:47,830
him? 
Old Town. 

1921
01:31:47,830 --> 01:31:49,390
He he left for King's land and 
goes to Old Town. 

1922
01:31:49,390 --> 01:31:51,390
So he probably immediately 
starts complaining to the Lord 

1923
01:31:51,390 --> 01:31:53,390
Donald, it's like you sent me 
home. 

1924
01:31:53,710 --> 01:31:55,190
I'm complaining about the 
marriage. 

1925
01:31:55,190 --> 01:31:56,790
Like, well, you shouldn't 
complain about the marriage. 

1926
01:31:57,510 --> 01:32:00,990
I don't know if Donald was 
willing to listen to Steph and 

1927
01:32:00,990 --> 01:32:05,670
Matthias here and Lord Rogar 
actually prevented the letter 

1928
01:32:05,670 --> 01:32:08,150
being sent to Old Town. 
There was a letter being sent to

1929
01:32:08,150 --> 01:32:10,070
Old Town saying Do Harris and 
Alisander get married? 

1930
01:32:10,550 --> 01:32:13,590
Rogar's like, burn that letter. 
He went to the Maester and was 

1931
01:32:13,590 --> 01:32:15,590
like, no, don't send that 
because he still wanted to 

1932
01:32:15,590 --> 01:32:18,270
undermine the marriage and not 
for his own benefit. 

1933
01:32:18,270 --> 01:32:20,790
He wasn't necessarily trying to 
gain like a marriage for his own

1934
01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:22,950
house. 
He just really, really wanted to

1935
01:32:22,950 --> 01:32:29,190
stop the potential explosion of 
the realm, finding out about it 

1936
01:32:29,190 --> 01:32:30,430
because it's still been kept 
under wraps. 

1937
01:32:30,430 --> 01:32:33,590
It hasn't been publicly 
announced yet, and to be fair, 

1938
01:32:33,950 --> 01:32:37,550
their mom didn't want it either.
Queen Alyssa also didn't want 

1939
01:32:37,550 --> 01:32:39,030
it. 
She eventually bowed down, back 

1940
01:32:39,030 --> 01:32:40,910
down, like, look, they've got 
us, we can't do anything about 

1941
01:32:40,910 --> 01:32:43,370
it. 
The Tower of Joy thing she she 

1942
01:32:43,370 --> 01:32:45,130
gave, she's like, OK, they've 
outmaneuvered us. 

1943
01:32:45,130 --> 01:32:49,890
But Rogar didn't give up. 
So what did Rogar do next? 

1944
01:32:49,890 --> 01:32:54,010
He sent a covert like commando 
squad led by his brother Oren 

1945
01:32:54,010 --> 01:32:59,650
Baratheon to snatch Reina from 
the Sept and crown her because 

1946
01:32:59,650 --> 01:33:03,850
he knew that was really Araya. 
He knew he was in on that, so he

1947
01:33:03,850 --> 01:33:07,610
knew who it really was. 
But it didn't work because what 

1948
01:33:07,610 --> 01:33:11,600
happened was Oren shows up and 
he's like, I got a letter here. 

1949
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,320
I I need rail. 
The king, you know, the king 

1950
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:14,520
demands. 
The hand demands. 

1951
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:18,360
They're like the chief SEPTA 
who's an older lady is like 

1952
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:20,840
where are your papers? 
You know show me your 

1953
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:22,600
authorization. 
You know papers. 

1954
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:24,320
Give me your show me the seal on
the. 

1955
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:25,760
You know, she's like, I don't 
know about this. 

1956
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:31,920
And this other steward who's 
there backs her up on this play.

1957
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:33,360
And it's like, I don't know 
about this. 

1958
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:35,360
And this guy used to be a 
captain in the warrior's son. 

1959
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:37,960
So he's he's no slouch. 
Right. 

1960
01:33:38,480 --> 01:33:41,550
She goes to to talk to the high 
licks, Fiddle to get permission 

1961
01:33:41,550 --> 01:33:44,230
or like to talk to someone with 
more authority, but the high 

1962
01:33:44,230 --> 01:33:47,190
lickspittle is asleep and it's 
this steward guy, this cap. 

1963
01:33:47,190 --> 01:33:50,110
Former captain of the Warrior 
son's Casper Straw is his name 

1964
01:33:50,670 --> 01:33:53,070
responds instead. 
And so had the high lickspittle 

1965
01:33:53,070 --> 01:33:55,630
been awakened, he probably would
have been like, yeah, go along 

1966
01:33:55,630 --> 01:33:56,710
with it. 
I don't, you know, I'm not going

1967
01:33:56,710 --> 01:34:01,430
to stand in their way. 
Send the kid off instead, Lord 

1968
01:34:01,430 --> 01:34:06,750
Donald is informed and this 
captain guy takes her. 

1969
01:34:06,750 --> 01:34:09,710
Or and captain. 
And here's the quote to give us 

1970
01:34:09,710 --> 01:34:12,890
the rest of the story. 
Father of the Faithful managed, 

1971
01:34:12,890 --> 01:34:16,410
gentle as he was weak of will, 
heard Orange Baratheon's 

1972
01:34:16,410 --> 01:34:19,330
confession and forgave him. 
This did not prevent Lord 

1973
01:34:19,330 --> 01:34:21,970
Hightower, once informed, from 
throwing the captive Baratheons 

1974
01:34:21,970 --> 01:34:24,570
into a dungeon and dispatching a
full account of the affair to 

1975
01:34:24,570 --> 01:34:28,410
both Red Keep and Dragonstone. 
Donald Hightower, who had 

1976
01:34:28,410 --> 01:34:30,970
rightly been named on the 
Delayer for his reluctance to 

1977
01:34:30,970 --> 01:34:33,810
take the field against Step the 
moon, and his followers seemed 

1978
01:34:33,810 --> 01:34:36,690
to have No Fear in offending 
storms in by imprisoning Lord 

1979
01:34:36,690 --> 01:34:39,830
Rogar's own brother. 
Let him come and try to price 

1980
01:34:39,830 --> 01:34:42,510
him free, he said. 
When his Mace are worried about 

1981
01:34:42,510 --> 01:34:46,310
how the former hand might react,
his own wife took his hand and 

1982
01:34:46,310 --> 01:34:48,630
cut his balls off. 
And soon enough King will have 

1983
01:34:48,630 --> 01:34:50,790
his head. 
Yeah, so that refers to how 

1984
01:34:51,110 --> 01:34:55,550
Alyssa stood down Lord Rogar 
when Rogar tried to overrule the

1985
01:34:55,550 --> 01:34:58,950
whole council. 
And Alyssa was like, you've gone

1986
01:34:58,950 --> 01:35:03,350
too far, you're no longer Hand 
as Regent. 

1987
01:35:03,350 --> 01:35:06,790
She has that power. 
And Rogar was so offended that a

1988
01:35:06,790 --> 01:35:09,830
woman took his title away that 
he just kind of was like, I'm 

1989
01:35:09,830 --> 01:35:11,990
not listening to you, even 
though that's his wife, by the 

1990
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:15,270
way. 
But the council was like, we're 

1991
01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:17,190
going to, we're with the 
regionals. 

1992
01:35:17,390 --> 01:35:21,190
Here, including Lord Corbre, who
drew the Valerian steel blade 

1993
01:35:21,230 --> 01:35:24,070
and laid it on the table with 
its point facing that Lord 

1994
01:35:24,070 --> 01:35:26,670
Rogar. 
He took the hint there and just 

1995
01:35:27,190 --> 01:35:29,590
had nothing to say. 
And like his face got all purple

1996
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:31,750
and left and he still didn't 
stop, right? 

1997
01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:35,980
He still did this other stuff 
and that's why Donald says soon 

1998
01:35:35,980 --> 01:35:38,180
enough the king will have his 
head because this thing, this is

1999
01:35:38,180 --> 01:35:39,780
treason, right? 
This thing that he did here. 

2000
01:35:40,340 --> 01:35:42,380
Events would seem to prove Lord 
Donald right. 

2001
01:35:42,380 --> 01:35:46,500
Mostly he misjudged to Harris 
who again conciliate. 

2002
01:35:47,580 --> 01:35:52,260
He forgave Lord Rogar and 
continue to work with him. 

2003
01:35:52,300 --> 01:35:56,500
He just punished him. 
And Oren was exiled for, you 

2004
01:35:56,500 --> 01:35:58,780
know, doing the, the Commando 
squad thing. 

2005
01:36:00,150 --> 01:36:02,670
Donald suffered no reprisals 
from Hal Farathian, though. 

2006
01:36:02,790 --> 01:36:04,390
So he was like, yeah, he's not 
going to do anything. 

2007
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:06,550
What is he going to do to me? 
So he was right about that. 

2008
01:36:06,550 --> 01:36:10,870
So if those two had worked 
together in helping Jerry's make

2009
01:36:10,870 --> 01:36:13,230
his announcement and move 
forward against Megor, there's 

2010
01:36:13,230 --> 01:36:15,950
no love lost here. 
There's like, Donald Hightower 

2011
01:36:15,950 --> 01:36:17,590
didn't have any loyalty to 
Rogar. 

2012
01:36:17,590 --> 01:36:19,070
They were just allies of 
circumstance. 

2013
01:36:19,070 --> 01:36:23,230
I guess this tells us that's a 
little bit of this pushes back a

2014
01:36:23,230 --> 01:36:25,550
little bit against the notion 
that Lord Donald was overly 

2015
01:36:25,550 --> 01:36:27,470
cautious. 
Yeah, cautious perhaps, But this

2016
01:36:27,510 --> 01:36:30,000
is he knew what he could get 
away with. 

2017
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,760
He he didn't. 
He wasn't a coward, he just 

2018
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:37,720
didn't want to take big risks. 
I guess he knew he just had his 

2019
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:41,120
way of playing the game and 
involved lower risk profiles, 

2020
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:44,200
but not necessarily none, you 
know? 

2021
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:48,160
I'm going to say it like I was, 
you know, arguing earlier that 

2022
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:51,040
he delayed when it was 
appropriate to delay, and it 

2023
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:54,120
happened to be a scenario where 
it was appropriate to delay for 

2024
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:56,800
quite a while. 
And so he quote UN quote in this

2025
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,130
reputation. 
In this moment where it wasn't 

2026
01:36:59,130 --> 01:37:01,290
appropriate to delay, he acted 
right away. 

2027
01:37:01,530 --> 01:37:03,010
Right. 
He acted quickly. 

2028
01:37:03,010 --> 01:37:04,530
You're right. 
Like he totally acted quickly on

2029
01:37:04,530 --> 01:37:06,370
this one. 
He he decisively imprisoned 

2030
01:37:06,370 --> 01:37:09,450
those dudes, made this 
announcement, sent the A report 

2031
01:37:09,450 --> 01:37:11,730
directly to King's Landing in 
Red and Dragonstone right away. 

2032
01:37:11,730 --> 01:37:16,210
Yeah, yeah, that's a very strong
point in 54 A/C. 

2033
01:37:16,210 --> 01:37:18,610
So jumping ahead a couple of 
years, the high lickspittle died

2034
01:37:18,890 --> 01:37:22,170
and Harrison and Allison became 
concerned that whoever the new 

2035
01:37:22,930 --> 01:37:25,850
bicepin was would not be so 
agreeable to their marriage. 

2036
01:37:25,850 --> 01:37:28,360
It would speak out against them,
and they were worried about 

2037
01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:31,280
specifically Septon Matheus when
Septon Matheus was a 

2038
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:32,760
high-ranking number, the most 
devout. 

2039
01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:35,080
And even though they'd sent him 
home and expressed their 

2040
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:38,000
displeasure of him, he was still
very popular in high-ranking 

2041
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,400
among the most devout and he 
might win the election for High 

2042
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:42,080
Septon and they did not want 
that to happen. 

2043
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,360
This is around the time the 
doctrine of exceptionalism was 

2044
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:48,640
developed and spread around. 
So what did they do? 

2045
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:52,880
They got on their Dragons, 
Jerry's and Ellis, and both flew

2046
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:56,280
to Old Town to cut a deal with 
Lord Donald Hightower, which did

2047
01:37:56,280 --> 01:38:00,520
not please small council. 
They did not like the idea of 

2048
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:06,840
them alone in Old Town quote. 
When the king insisted that he 

2049
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:11,600
would have the protection of the
Hightower, uneasy glances were 

2050
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:15,920
exchanged. 
Lord Donald is a schemer and a 

2051
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:18,120
sulker, said Manfred. 
Red red wine. 

2052
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:20,360
I do not trust him, nor should 
you. 

2053
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:24,040
He does what he thinks best for 
himself, his house and Old Town.

2054
01:38:24,390 --> 01:38:29,670
And cares not a fig for anyone 
or anything else, not even for 

2055
01:38:29,670 --> 01:38:32,110
his king. 
And I must convince him that 

2056
01:38:32,110 --> 01:38:35,030
what is best for his king is 
what is best for himself, his 

2057
01:38:35,070 --> 01:38:36,870
house and Old Town said to 
Harris. 

2058
01:38:37,110 --> 01:38:40,350
I believe I can do that. 
So he ended the discussion and 

2059
01:38:40,350 --> 01:38:42,430
gave orders for their Dragons to
be brought forth. 

2060
01:38:43,150 --> 01:38:45,990
Even for a dragon Flight to 
King's Landing is a long one. 

2061
01:38:46,710 --> 01:38:49,670
Yeah, so to Old Town, it's that 
we don't need to talk about 

2062
01:38:49,670 --> 01:38:50,710
that. 
But I wanted to make note of 

2063
01:38:50,710 --> 01:38:54,460
that last line about This is a 
loose, useful logistical data 

2064
01:38:54,460 --> 01:38:56,980
point to show. 
Like, yeah, he he, Jerry stopped

2065
01:38:56,980 --> 01:38:59,420
twice on the way to Old Town. 
He didn't have to necessarily, 

2066
01:38:59,420 --> 01:39:02,300
but he did at least probably 
have to stop once, I guess. 

2067
01:39:02,300 --> 01:39:05,460
I don't know. 
Anyway, so Jerry's was right. 

2068
01:39:05,460 --> 01:39:07,380
Apparently the deal was 
completed. 

2069
01:39:07,700 --> 01:39:10,260
Quote. 
High towers of Old Town were an 

2070
01:39:10,260 --> 01:39:13,620
ancient family, powerful, 
wealthy, proud and large. 

2071
01:39:13,900 --> 01:39:16,500
It had long been their custom 
for younger sons, brothers, 

2072
01:39:16,500 --> 01:39:18,980
cousins, ambassadors of the 
house to join the faith, where 

2073
01:39:18,980 --> 01:39:20,700
many had risen high over the 
centuries. 

2074
01:39:21,410 --> 01:39:24,650
Lord Donald Hightower had a 
younger brother, 2 nephews and 

2075
01:39:24,650 --> 01:39:27,130
six cousins serving the seven in
54 A/C. 

2076
01:39:27,450 --> 01:39:30,810
The brother, one nephew and two 
cousins wore a cloth of silver 

2077
01:39:31,170 --> 01:39:34,370
of the most about it was Lord 
Donald's desire that one of them

2078
01:39:34,370 --> 01:39:36,610
become Highceptin. 
So we know what he wants, so we 

2079
01:39:36,650 --> 01:39:38,810
very clearly get what he wanted 
here out of the exchange. 

2080
01:39:39,330 --> 01:39:43,130
The deal was thus Alfon. 
The guy that we haven't 

2081
01:39:43,130 --> 01:39:46,210
mentioned yet, just a member of 
the most about would be the next

2082
01:39:46,210 --> 01:39:48,850
Highceptin because he was a 
proponent of the doctrine of 

2083
01:39:48,850 --> 01:39:51,100
reception. 
He was that was already known in

2084
01:39:51,100 --> 01:39:55,620
return the next high step. 
Then after Alphon and Alphon was

2085
01:39:55,700 --> 01:39:58,820
old, so all everybody knew he 
probably wouldn't be and he was 

2086
01:39:58,820 --> 01:40:01,100
also like and and not in great 
health either. 

2087
01:40:02,180 --> 01:40:05,780
So after Alphon dies, the next 
high step would be Lord Donald's

2088
01:40:05,780 --> 01:40:09,500
brother. 
But the high towers, all of them

2089
01:40:09,700 --> 01:40:11,540
would have to support the 
doctrine of exceptionalism as 

2090
01:40:11,540 --> 01:40:12,500
well. 
That was part of the deal. 

2091
01:40:12,500 --> 01:40:15,540
They have to back the back. 
That, and indeed, not only did 

2092
01:40:15,540 --> 01:40:19,380
they back it, it became an 
official written tenant. 

2093
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,680
With the Faith of the Seven like
it's in the rules, it's. 

2094
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:25,800
In a Geneva Convention. 
Look it up. 

2095
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:30,040
So Lord Donald then they 
accepted the deal and they 

2096
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:33,560
celebrated it with a feast. 
He had a feast where all the 

2097
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:35,240
high towers were there, this 
huge family. 

2098
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:38,720
And Lord Donald gives a speech 
about how great Harris is, how 

2099
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:42,080
wise and wonderful, and how much
he's looking forward to his 

2100
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:45,040
reign and how all the high 
towers should feel the same way.

2101
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:48,380
So it was very much marriage 
ceremony of sorts without an 

2102
01:40:48,380 --> 01:40:50,700
actual marriage, you know, and 
and of course, you know there's 

2103
01:40:50,780 --> 01:40:54,580
some, some appropriate cynicism 
is warranted here because Donald

2104
01:40:54,580 --> 01:40:56,060
is obviously just being 
political here. 

2105
01:40:56,060 --> 01:41:01,220
He's surely willing to turn on a
dime if the circumstances 

2106
01:41:01,220 --> 01:41:02,900
warranted. 
But the circumstances don't look

2107
01:41:02,900 --> 01:41:04,700
like they're going to. 
That's what Jerry said. 

2108
01:41:05,780 --> 01:41:09,340
Jerry says I'll make him see 
that this is his best move. 

2109
01:41:09,700 --> 01:41:11,620
And he was right. 
At least it seemed that way. 

2110
01:41:13,180 --> 01:41:17,300
Just look how callously look how
easily this was pulled off that 

2111
01:41:17,300 --> 01:41:20,940
Lord Donald could just promise 
Jerry's through the next high 

2112
01:41:20,940 --> 01:41:22,540
step and would be and vice 
versa. 

2113
01:41:22,900 --> 01:41:25,900
Kind of just gives us perhaps 
our starkest proof that the high

2114
01:41:25,900 --> 01:41:29,260
Tower pulls the strings here. 
It wasn't a question of can you 

2115
01:41:29,260 --> 01:41:33,340
rig the voting, but a statement,
I need you to rig the voting 

2116
01:41:33,620 --> 01:41:35,380
right. 
And and it was okay. 

2117
01:41:35,660 --> 01:41:37,300
Yes. 
We'll give you that in exchange 

2118
01:41:37,300 --> 01:41:42,540
for the back and forth. 
And these things were just items

2119
01:41:42,580 --> 01:41:45,460
in a negotiation line, items to 
be added or subtracted. 

2120
01:41:45,820 --> 01:41:49,860
There wasn't seeming any seeming
worry about well, maybe we can't

2121
01:41:49,860 --> 01:41:51,300
pull this off. 
No, of course it'll work. 

2122
01:41:52,100 --> 01:41:56,260
Septon Barth is our source for 
all this and he just in his 

2123
01:41:56,260 --> 01:41:58,180
writings he just rues this 
corruption. 

2124
01:41:58,180 --> 01:42:01,100
He's like it stinks that the 
most of out are so easily 

2125
01:42:01,100 --> 01:42:05,420
swayed. 
But he also is frustrated that 

2126
01:42:06,350 --> 01:42:08,670
what choice do they have. 
The gods are silent on the 

2127
01:42:08,670 --> 01:42:10,070
matter. 
He's like why don't the gods 

2128
01:42:10,070 --> 01:42:11,790
weigh in and and do something 
about this. 

2129
01:42:11,790 --> 01:42:15,430
So his fresh he's a he's a 
believer and so his some of his 

2130
01:42:15,710 --> 01:42:19,750
frustration is aimed at heaven. 
And I wonder as well how much 

2131
01:42:19,750 --> 01:42:24,190
this negotiation between the 
high Tower and the king set up 

2132
01:42:24,190 --> 01:42:27,350
future relationships. 
I mean, this is kept them on a 

2133
01:42:27,950 --> 01:42:30,830
lockstep, at least at least in a
few matters for quite a while, 

2134
01:42:31,350 --> 01:42:35,350
and it enabled the two to get to
know each other. 

2135
01:42:35,740 --> 01:42:40,380
George Harrison, Lord Donald 
took each other's measure even 

2136
01:42:40,380 --> 01:42:42,820
more. 
But also it didn't imply trust 

2137
01:42:43,220 --> 01:42:46,620
just because this arrangement 
happened. 

2138
01:42:46,740 --> 01:42:50,540
Lord Donald was passed over for 
consideration as hand to the 

2139
01:42:50,540 --> 01:42:52,660
King. 
He still wasn't fully trusted. 

2140
01:42:53,340 --> 01:42:54,940
Never would be. 
And why would he be? 

2141
01:42:55,020 --> 01:42:57,660
He's still the same guy. 
Just because Jerry's convinced 

2142
01:42:57,660 --> 01:43:02,900
him that in this matter, the 
high Towers interests aligned 

2143
01:43:02,900 --> 01:43:05,350
with Thrones, that doesn't mean 
that it will. 

2144
01:43:05,350 --> 01:43:08,070
And other matters. 
This isn't some oh, everything's

2145
01:43:08,070 --> 01:43:10,350
good for forever. 
Now that we've agreed on this 

2146
01:43:10,550 --> 01:43:13,950
one thing, a couple random notes
here that I found entertaining 

2147
01:43:13,950 --> 01:43:16,190
before we move on to some of the
meteor parts here. 

2148
01:43:16,830 --> 01:43:20,430
Allison spent three days 
straight reading at the Citadel 

2149
01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:23,590
during this time, during the 
time of these negotiations and 

2150
01:43:23,830 --> 01:43:25,510
tried to get the Arch Maestris 
to admit women. 

2151
01:43:25,510 --> 01:43:28,350
But they just sort of like, 
sure, we'll we'll consider that.

2152
01:43:28,350 --> 01:43:30,870
Yeah, we'll, yeah, we'll, we'll 
take that under advisement. 

2153
01:43:31,430 --> 01:43:32,670
They didn't take that under 
advisement. 

2154
01:43:33,810 --> 01:43:39,450
While Reyna was hunting area and
Valerian, she came to Old Town 

2155
01:43:39,450 --> 01:43:43,010
on dream fire and asked around, 
but of course they hadn't come 

2156
01:43:43,010 --> 01:43:45,010
there. 
But still that's another dragon 

2157
01:43:45,010 --> 01:43:46,730
that's been to Old Town. 
I like keeping track of that. 

2158
01:43:47,610 --> 01:43:50,290
Also our further our earlier 
question about whether Valerian 

2159
01:43:50,290 --> 01:43:52,650
could have landed on the High 
Tower, and I'm thinking no 

2160
01:43:53,050 --> 01:43:55,850
Vermethor, didn't we? 
I remember Silverwing did, but 

2161
01:43:55,850 --> 01:43:58,770
Vermethor landed in the big 
Plaza outside the starry set I 

2162
01:43:58,770 --> 01:44:01,770
remember correctly. 
Definitively not on. 

2163
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:04,440
It's ours. 
So again, might be too big. 

2164
01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:07,520
I mean, it'll be too small for 
Vermouthor, and if it's too 

2165
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:09,720
small for Vermouthor, definitely
too small for Balerian. 

2166
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:13,840
At near the same time that this 
was happening, that she was 

2167
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:17,080
looking for Balerian. 
And in fact it was helpful to 

2168
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:20,360
Alyssa Farman that so many 
people were distracted looking 

2169
01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:23,560
for a Ray and Balerian. 
The Sun Chaser docked it Old 

2170
01:44:23,560 --> 01:44:26,200
Town. 
Of course, she was not known as 

2171
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,840
Alyssa Farman. 
Here she was, Alice West Hill 

2172
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:31,920
using that alias, and she began 
recruiting sailors. 

2173
01:44:32,410 --> 01:44:36,050
Now much of her story involves 
knowledge, challenging of 

2174
01:44:36,050 --> 01:44:38,530
existing knowledge, and the 
rejection of superstitious 

2175
01:44:38,530 --> 01:44:42,890
beliefs about the world being 
flat, or that that there's just 

2176
01:44:43,130 --> 01:44:46,570
like a giant waterfall at the 
end of the world that you just 

2177
01:44:46,570 --> 01:44:49,090
fall or whatever. 
The people believed that there's

2178
01:44:49,090 --> 01:44:52,970
just boiling seas out there, 
just bizarre, unfounded, 

2179
01:44:53,250 --> 01:44:56,490
unproven things with no evidence
to back them up. 

2180
01:44:57,410 --> 01:45:02,350
So I really wonder about how 
much they say the Citadel wanted

2181
01:45:02,350 --> 01:45:05,110
her to succeed, to expand the 
knowledge of the world. 

2182
01:45:05,110 --> 01:45:08,310
Because a lot of the Citadel are
like, we'd love a little more 

2183
01:45:08,310 --> 01:45:10,670
evidence to throw in the face of
these idiots who think the world

2184
01:45:10,670 --> 01:45:12,870
is flat because this is like the
real world. 

2185
01:45:12,870 --> 01:45:16,470
You know, there's this is a 
thing in Westeros too, of people

2186
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:19,510
being like, yeah, I mean like 
sailors of this era, No, like 

2187
01:45:19,590 --> 01:45:21,630
they can see the horizon curving
there, don't they? 

2188
01:45:21,630 --> 01:45:23,830
Don't think the world is flat. 
At least experience oneself. 

2189
01:45:24,430 --> 01:45:27,280
But plenty of other people know 
nothing about sailing or like. 

2190
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:28,440
Yeah, of course the world's 
flat. 

2191
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:31,040
Someone living in the Hightower 
would not think the world is 

2192
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:32,960
flat. 
I could clearly see. 

2193
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:35,680
Like when I'm on the ground I 
can see this far up here. 

2194
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:38,640
I can span. 
You can see the curve, yeah. 

2195
01:45:38,840 --> 01:45:41,600
There's other things in the real
world too that they're able to 

2196
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,920
figure out, like shadows and 
shadows in different locations 

2197
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:46,800
at different times if you do 
calculations. 

2198
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:49,560
There's a lot of lot of evidence
and and it would have maybe not 

2199
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:53,330
only wanted this knowledge. 
But there it would have brought 

2200
01:45:53,410 --> 01:45:56,850
fame and glory to their home for
them to get this new knowledge, 

2201
01:45:56,890 --> 01:45:58,090
you know? 
Yeah, so this is pretty 

2202
01:45:58,090 --> 01:45:59,530
interesting. 
So I really wonder about that. 

2203
01:45:59,530 --> 01:46:04,250
Like what people in Old Town who
were in the know what they 

2204
01:46:04,610 --> 01:46:06,730
thought about this quest of 
hers. 

2205
01:46:06,730 --> 01:46:09,090
Like, I think a lot of them just
wanted her to succeed. 

2206
01:46:09,090 --> 01:46:10,730
Some of them probably would have
been like she's not going to, 

2207
01:46:11,170 --> 01:46:13,970
but they would have still wanted
her to or hope for new 

2208
01:46:13,970 --> 01:46:17,570
discoveries or new anything. 
Just probably was pretty 

2209
01:46:17,570 --> 01:46:21,650
exciting now. 
This is a whole untapped 

2210
01:46:21,810 --> 01:46:28,210
resource rabbit hole thing, 
which is that the high towers 

2211
01:46:28,210 --> 01:46:30,570
are a Mariner family. 
They've got a lot of seafarers 

2212
01:46:30,570 --> 01:46:33,370
in their history, but we just 
have very little information on 

2213
01:46:33,610 --> 01:46:37,130
what that has entailed. 
Except for in this case, where 

2214
01:46:37,130 --> 01:46:40,250
there's a very strong and long 
story that we covered in our 

2215
01:46:40,250 --> 01:46:45,250
episode on the Sun Chaser, 
because she was also a great not

2216
01:46:45,250 --> 01:46:47,930
only did she have this grand 
vision, she was really good at 

2217
01:46:47,930 --> 01:46:51,800
explaining it and winning people
over with the force of her 

2218
01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:56,000
charisma and speaking ability. 
She won people over through 

2219
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:58,280
this, her expression of this 
grand vision. 

2220
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:04,280
And in two such people were 
Eustace and Norman Hightower, 

2221
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:08,480
grandsons of Lord Donald. 
These two were quote noted 

2222
01:47:08,480 --> 01:47:10,800
Mariners, which is part of this,
this rabbit hole. 

2223
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:13,200
That's the allure of this idea. 
Well, where did they go? 

2224
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:15,680
Where else have they been? 
There's never been a sea snake 

2225
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:19,340
or an Oaken fist or Alyssa 
Farman type Hightower and then 

2226
01:47:19,340 --> 01:47:22,780
that famous. 
But there have been apparently 

2227
01:47:22,780 --> 01:47:25,180
plenty of great high tower 
sailors and they were certainly 

2228
01:47:25,180 --> 01:47:27,780
well equipped, right? 
They had their ships were nice, 

2229
01:47:28,380 --> 01:47:30,220
their crews were well paid, 
probably. 

2230
01:47:30,220 --> 01:47:32,100
At least they could have been. 
You know, they should have been,

2231
01:47:33,180 --> 01:47:35,780
and some few may have dared all 
the more boldly. 

2232
01:47:35,780 --> 01:47:39,420
Because this is, they have like 
this rich guy confidence that 

2233
01:47:39,420 --> 01:47:42,100
you can have from everything 
kind of working out for you or 

2234
01:47:42,140 --> 01:47:44,300
your whole life's kind of expect
everything else to work out for 

2235
01:47:44,300 --> 01:47:46,620
you. 
Bolstered even further by maybe 

2236
01:47:46,620 --> 01:47:49,640
being believers, worshippers of 
the faith, and believing that 

2237
01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:53,360
heaven will protect them in 
their quest to, I don't know, 

2238
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:55,680
spread the faith to new lands 
maybe if they feel like that's 

2239
01:47:55,680 --> 01:47:56,440
what they're doing. 
I don't know. 

2240
01:47:56,440 --> 01:47:58,480
I don't know what they are, what
what their motivation 

2241
01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:01,480
necessarily is, but that that 
could have been one of the 

2242
01:48:01,480 --> 01:48:04,120
possibilities. 
And recall to what we said about

2243
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:07,160
the safety of the seeds relative
to before, they aren't thrown 

2244
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:10,160
like more exploration and trade 
was happening because of the 

2245
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:13,960
tampering down on the ironborn, 
which is a relatively new thing 

2246
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:17,760
historically. 
So this would have been be going

2247
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:20,520
even farther. 
Let's have a quote about this 

2248
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:24,600
business here. 
Slowly, she began to gather 

2249
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:27,960
willing hands. 
Inevitably, word of her efforts 

2250
01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:30,680
came to the attention of the 
Lord of the Hightower. 

2251
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:36,680
Lord Donald's grandsons, Eustace
and Norman, both noted Mariners 

2252
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:40,960
in their own right, were sent to
question her and clap her in 

2253
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:45,680
fetters if they felt it prudent.
Instead, both men signed on with

2254
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:47,840
her. 
Fudging their own ships and 

2255
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:52,000
crews to her mission after that,
sailors clambered over one 

2256
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:54,160
another in their haste to join 
her crew. 

2257
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:58,720
If the high towers were going, 
there were fortunes to be had. 

2258
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:04,000
The Sun Chaser departed Old Town
on the 23rd day of the third 

2259
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:09,440
moon of 56 A/C, making her way 
down whispering sound for the 

2260
01:49:09,480 --> 01:49:14,240
open seas in company with Sarah 
Norman Hightower's Autumn Moon. 

2261
01:49:14,700 --> 01:49:17,700
And Sarah Eustace Hightowers 
Lady Meredith. 

2262
01:49:17,940 --> 01:49:22,220
I wonder if Lady Meredith was 
the bride of one of the other 

2263
01:49:22,220 --> 01:49:24,820
Hightower, feeling like a member
of another house that married in

2264
01:49:24,820 --> 01:49:27,340
to the Hightower family. 
Or maybe an actual Hightower 

2265
01:49:27,340 --> 01:49:28,260
mother? 
Yeah, I was doing, yeah, I was 

2266
01:49:28,260 --> 01:49:29,300
doing with the mother. 
Yeah. 

2267
01:49:29,500 --> 01:49:31,540
Like maybe, maybe Eustace's 
mother, because Eustace. 

2268
01:49:31,940 --> 01:49:33,940
Yeah, as a grandson of Lord 
Donald. 

2269
01:49:33,940 --> 01:49:35,780
Not that we know who Lord 
Donald's life was either, but. 

2270
01:49:35,820 --> 01:49:37,620
Yeah, I mean, certainly they 
were Wretch enough that he could

2271
01:49:37,620 --> 01:49:39,860
have had a bride and named it 
after his wife, But I'm going to

2272
01:49:39,860 --> 01:49:41,420
guess it was a mother, not of 
life. 

2273
01:49:41,900 --> 01:49:42,660
Yeah, I agree. 
The. 

2274
01:49:42,740 --> 01:49:45,280
Lady and I don't know, Lord 
Donald. 

2275
01:49:45,280 --> 01:49:48,040
The delay received word from 
King's Landing to arrest Lady 

2276
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:50,920
Alice because Jerry's figured 
out that it was her. 

2277
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:53,360
Apparently, and and the reason 
they wanted to get her was she 

2278
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:56,360
had stolen three dragon eggs. 
So that's a pretty big deal, 

2279
01:49:56,360 --> 01:49:58,520
right? 
But either she had already left,

2280
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:02,400
or Donald simply delayed and 
allowed her to leave and then 

2281
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:05,240
pretended to chase after because
he supposedly sent out his 

2282
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:06,840
twelve of his fastest ships to 
catch her. 

2283
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:09,560
But he probably didn't expect 
them to succeed. 

2284
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:13,150
And indeed, Sun Chaser was 
wicked fast. 

2285
01:50:13,630 --> 01:50:15,590
So yeah, they weren't going to 
catch her and they weren't going

2286
01:50:15,590 --> 01:50:17,190
to catch the Eustace and Norman 
either. 

2287
01:50:17,190 --> 01:50:18,950
And they had a head start. 
I mean, and they like, what 

2288
01:50:18,950 --> 01:50:20,110
direction did they like? 
They all. 

2289
01:50:20,110 --> 01:50:22,430
Know where how you going to 
catch the open sea? 

2290
01:50:22,430 --> 01:50:23,390
Like you're not going to catch 
them. 

2291
01:50:25,150 --> 01:50:26,950
Three years later, Eustace 
returned. 

2292
01:50:27,350 --> 01:50:31,790
It was the year 59 A/C Norman 
did not that. 

2293
01:50:31,790 --> 01:50:34,310
The details of there are 
included in our discussion of 

2294
01:50:34,310 --> 01:50:36,330
the episode. 
I certainly wonder what Lord 

2295
01:50:36,330 --> 01:50:38,930
Donald thought of the three 
small islands they had found, 

2296
01:50:38,930 --> 01:50:40,530
though it's dubious you saw them
with much value. 

2297
01:50:40,530 --> 01:50:43,530
There were some interesting 
fruits there, and some maybe 

2298
01:50:43,530 --> 01:50:46,570
some unknown animals, but 
nothing like super valuable. 

2299
01:50:47,050 --> 01:50:49,770
But still, it's a good example 
of him having control over 

2300
01:50:49,770 --> 01:50:51,570
information. 
The high tower controlling what 

2301
01:50:51,570 --> 01:50:52,730
goes in the history books and 
what isn't. 

2302
01:50:53,130 --> 01:50:56,010
The maps we see these days don't
usually bother to include those 

2303
01:50:56,010 --> 01:50:57,330
3 little islands. 
It's just like you'd have to 

2304
01:50:57,330 --> 01:51:00,210
make the map so much larger just
to include three tiny islands 

2305
01:51:00,210 --> 01:51:01,170
way out in the middle of 
nowhere. 

2306
01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:04,000
You may have, like, kept this 
knowledge. 

2307
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:05,680
You may have just been like, I 
don't want anyone else to know 

2308
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:08,760
where this is, you know, let's 
keep it, keep it for ourselves. 

2309
01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:10,360
Don't put it in the history 
books. 

2310
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:13,440
Don't talk about it. 
Now you can't entirely conceal 

2311
01:51:13,440 --> 01:51:15,160
it because the sailors, a bunch 
of sailors went there. 

2312
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:17,600
They're going to talk about it 
like there's no way to keep all 

2313
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:21,360
this information down. 
But still, for him to decide 

2314
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:23,680
what's in the official record 
and what isn't, it's A to a 

2315
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:27,720
certain degree. 
Now, this is also the 10th year 

2316
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:29,520
of Darius's reign. 
There's 10th anniversary 

2317
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:32,760
festivities. 
No word if Donald actually 

2318
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:34,560
attended or not. 
Not at all. 

2319
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:38,280
Later in the year, though, came 
the shivers. 

2320
01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:41,320
Same year the Shivers hit. 
Westeros was really bad. 

2321
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:45,520
One of the few good things about
the Shivers is that because it 

2322
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:51,160
was spread by rats, there was a 
proliferation of cats around 

2323
01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:53,760
Westeros. 
Cats kittens became very 

2324
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:55,800
valuable. 
People wanted to buy cats, 

2325
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:58,000
people wanted to spend. 
The price went way up. 

2326
01:51:58,840 --> 01:52:01,600
Doesn't really affect you when 
you're super rich, so I'm 

2327
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:04,760
guessing the Hightower was full 
of cats like the Red Keep is. 

2328
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:10,360
Now, probably might still be as 
well because don't want those 

2329
01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:14,160
rat, like any plague rat could 
get up to the top of the 

2330
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:15,720
Hightower. 
Like that's the thing that you 

2331
01:52:15,720 --> 01:52:17,520
can keep the doors closed and 
everything. 

2332
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:20,720
Like those rats can still get to
you, but not if you have cats. 

2333
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:22,200
Well, lot less likely if you 
have cats. 

2334
01:52:23,120 --> 01:52:28,000
Here's a quote about how the 
city itself was affected outside

2335
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:31,320
of the cat population. 
The great port city of Old Town 

2336
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:35,160
was especially hard hit, losing 
1/4 of its population uses. 

2337
01:52:35,200 --> 01:52:38,160
Hightower, who had returned 
alive from Alice Westfield's 

2338
01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:41,600
illfaded voyage across the 
Sunset Sea, survived once again,

2339
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:44,240
but his wife and children were 
not as fortunate. 

2340
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:46,920
Nor was his Grandsire or the 
Hightower. 

2341
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:49,240
None of the Delayer could not 
delay death. 

2342
01:52:49,480 --> 01:52:52,520
He died shivering. 
So did the High Septon to score 

2343
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:56,040
the most devout and fully 1/3 of
the Archmaesters, Maesters, 

2344
01:52:56,080 --> 01:52:57,880
Acolytes, and novices of the 
Citadel. 

2345
01:52:59,300 --> 01:53:01,020
Well, we have to consider this. 
If we think about the fact that 

2346
01:53:01,020 --> 01:53:03,660
over the entire reign of 
Jerry's, the population of Old 

2347
01:53:03,660 --> 01:53:06,540
Town like or the reach of 
Westeros in general double. 

2348
01:53:06,860 --> 01:53:11,100
So we can presume that this was 
a big setback in that. 

2349
01:53:11,100 --> 01:53:14,860
And then throughout the rest of 
Jerry's 44 more years or 45 more

2350
01:53:14,860 --> 01:53:17,660
years, then it recovered and and
prospered and all the all these 

2351
01:53:17,660 --> 01:53:20,860
good things happen. 
Now we're not sure if he, 

2352
01:53:20,860 --> 01:53:24,460
Eustace's father died. 
He may have already died and 

2353
01:53:24,900 --> 01:53:26,820
we're not sure who became Lord 
Hightower next. 

2354
01:53:26,820 --> 01:53:29,480
We don't have the name it would 
have been, you know, because 

2355
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:32,080
other high towers likely died as
well because of the shiver. 

2356
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:35,240
Just really throws the whole 
family tree for a loop here. 

2357
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:38,120
Whenever a major disease strikes
like that, it makes it harder to

2358
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:40,600
follow what happens next when 
multiple members of the family 

2359
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:42,600
die, especially when it's a 
large family to begin with. 

2360
01:53:42,600 --> 01:53:46,880
That isn't fully charted. 
But Eustis didn't become Lord, 

2361
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:49,040
as far as we know, even though 
he was one of the survivors. 

2362
01:53:49,480 --> 01:53:51,360
And I kind of doubt he would 
have been allowed to go on this 

2363
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:53,880
really dangerous voyage if he 
was, like in the line of 

2364
01:53:53,880 --> 01:53:55,680
succession. 
But maybe not, Who knows? 

2365
01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:58,690
It says the High Septon die. 
Now we're not sure if this was 

2366
01:53:58,690 --> 01:54:01,210
High Septon Alfon, which would 
then enable Lord Donald's 

2367
01:54:01,210 --> 01:54:04,450
brother to become High Septon as
had been agreed on, or if this 

2368
01:54:04,450 --> 01:54:07,170
was that brother and that Septon
Alfon had already died. 

2369
01:54:07,450 --> 01:54:08,450
We don't. 
We don't know about. 

2370
01:54:08,450 --> 01:54:09,050
That which? 
Which? 

2371
01:54:09,050 --> 01:54:12,650
Which answer is is true here? 
It's too soon afterwards for us 

2372
01:54:12,650 --> 01:54:18,690
to be able to guess yet again. 
The high towers were considered 

2373
01:54:18,690 --> 01:54:21,930
and discarded for the master 
coin position once the death of 

2374
01:54:21,930 --> 01:54:25,370
Rigo Draz happened. 
But what they may have wanted 

2375
01:54:25,370 --> 01:54:29,630
more, despite the lessons of the
past, was a Targaryen marriage. 

2376
01:54:30,590 --> 01:54:32,190
Terry and Alison had a lot of 
children. 

2377
01:54:32,190 --> 01:54:34,070
Of course, it's over time. 
This wasn't something that 

2378
01:54:34,070 --> 01:54:35,550
happened overnight. 
But you know, we're talking 

2379
01:54:35,550 --> 01:54:38,510
about 50-5 years and, you know, 
a lot of kids. 

2380
01:54:39,190 --> 01:54:41,270
Again, they didn't get their 
wish until later, but they. 

2381
01:54:41,270 --> 01:54:45,230
Did get it, as we see with Otto.
So that's it's still coming, but

2382
01:54:45,230 --> 01:54:48,830
we're getting close. 
In 70 A/C, Sir Hobart was born. 

2383
01:54:48,910 --> 01:54:51,110
That's the Hobart from fire and 
blood. 

2384
01:54:51,110 --> 01:54:52,310
That's. 
The Hobart. 

2385
01:54:52,870 --> 01:54:57,010
Not the Hobart TV. 
But although that Hobart may 

2386
01:54:57,170 --> 01:55:00,290
have these roles combined into 
one because they make it simpler

2387
01:55:00,290 --> 01:55:03,730
in the show, most mostly this is
the Hobart that drinks with the 

2388
01:55:04,290 --> 01:55:06,490
with off the white and joins the
cow drops. 

2389
01:55:06,490 --> 01:55:08,770
Later. 
There's a He dies. 

2390
01:55:08,810 --> 01:55:12,410
You know he's like 60 when he 
dies, and so he's 70 or so. 

2391
01:55:12,410 --> 01:55:15,450
This is 70 A/C, so the dance is 
still 60 or 59 years away from 

2392
01:55:15,450 --> 01:55:18,450
this point. 
At the Citadel, there's a Plintz

2393
01:55:18,490 --> 01:55:23,600
commemorating Jerry's Great Rd. 
Project, and we don't know when 

2394
01:55:23,600 --> 01:55:25,520
that was built, but it probably 
was built around then because 

2395
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:27,200
the road project started well 
before this. 

2396
01:55:27,400 --> 01:55:34,840
In 73 A/C, Darius and Allison's 
daughter Magell became the next 

2397
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:38,080
Targaryen to join the Faith, and
she goes there to become a 

2398
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:40,480
SEPTA. 
Five years later, her brother 

2399
01:55:40,480 --> 01:55:43,320
Vagon did two to be an 
Archmaester. 

2400
01:55:44,360 --> 01:55:46,560
Now, somewhere around this time,
Otto was born. 

2401
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:51,640
It's 70 to 70, sixish. 
We don't know his exact age, but

2402
01:55:52,030 --> 01:55:55,950
it's before 76 A/C. 
So before Vagon comes to the 

2403
01:55:56,150 --> 01:55:58,630
Citadel to be an archmaester, 
Otto is born. 

2404
01:56:00,070 --> 01:56:01,990
We don't actually know otters 
otters. 

2405
01:56:02,310 --> 01:56:06,230
We don't actually know Otto's 
brother's name in the show. 

2406
01:56:06,230 --> 01:56:08,030
He's Ho Bear, right? 
But we don't know his. 

2407
01:56:08,150 --> 01:56:10,990
So that's a perfectly promulent 
choice for them to make him a Ho

2408
01:56:10,990 --> 01:56:13,510
Bear, because there's plenty of 
Ho Bears out there amongst in 

2409
01:56:13,510 --> 01:56:15,790
this family. 
But but yeah, we don't actually 

2410
01:56:15,790 --> 01:56:17,710
know his book, the book 
version's name and we also don't

2411
01:56:17,710 --> 01:56:20,470
know their Lord father's name. 
But we do know. 

2412
01:56:20,470 --> 01:56:22,910
Important reminder, Otto is not 
the first born. 

2413
01:56:22,950 --> 01:56:25,710
Otto is second to his brother 
who became Lord. 

2414
01:56:25,710 --> 01:56:27,910
And this, this phase, of course,
it's their father that would 

2415
01:56:27,910 --> 01:56:29,830
have been in charge and Viscera 
himself. 

2416
01:56:30,630 --> 01:56:33,030
The eventual king was born in 
77, by the way. 

2417
01:56:33,110 --> 01:56:35,590
So that's another thing that 
maybe people forget is that Otto

2418
01:56:35,590 --> 01:56:39,230
is at least a year or two, maybe
maybe 5-6, seven years older 

2419
01:56:39,230 --> 01:56:43,030
than Viscera's. 
Otto was quote famed for his 

2420
01:56:43,030 --> 01:56:45,110
learning according to Master 
Master Pylos. 

2421
01:56:45,150 --> 01:56:48,940
Master Pylos tells this it's a 
Davos when Davos is like oh I'm 

2422
01:56:48,940 --> 01:56:50,940
not good enough to be hand. 
I don't even know how to read. 

2423
01:56:50,940 --> 01:56:52,740
I don't even know how to do this
and that and I'm. 

2424
01:56:52,740 --> 01:56:56,180
And major pales give pilot gives
him the lesson about lots of 

2425
01:56:56,180 --> 01:57:00,500
hands We're we're did this and 
that but sucked at being hands 

2426
01:57:00,500 --> 01:57:04,020
and meanwhile we have this guy 
and this guy who were nobodies 

2427
01:57:04,020 --> 01:57:05,260
that we're great except in 
Barth. 

2428
01:57:05,260 --> 01:57:08,620
You know so Davos don't don't be
down on yourself. 

2429
01:57:08,620 --> 01:57:11,460
You might be great actually I 
don't know about might be Davos 

2430
01:57:11,460 --> 01:57:14,990
you're great. 
So given this it's a pretty safe

2431
01:57:14,990 --> 01:57:17,150
assumption he took advantage of 
his house's proximity to 

2432
01:57:17,150 --> 01:57:18,030
citadel. 
Right. 

2433
01:57:18,310 --> 01:57:20,750
He's described Otto is as 
methodical. 

2434
01:57:21,310 --> 01:57:24,350
He's may have had the makings of
an archmaster if not for his 

2435
01:57:25,150 --> 01:57:27,910
great ambition. 
He was also a knight though we 

2436
01:57:27,910 --> 01:57:29,470
don't know anything about his 
martial skills. 

2437
01:57:29,470 --> 01:57:33,110
It's probably one of those 
barely earned things or 

2438
01:57:33,110 --> 01:57:33,870
something. 
He doesn't really. 

2439
01:57:34,030 --> 01:57:34,950
Yeah. 
I got to be a knight. 

2440
01:57:34,950 --> 01:57:37,590
But really I'm more interested 
in books and stuff like that. 

2441
01:57:38,310 --> 01:57:40,830
Auto on TV is pretty subtle in a
lot of ways. 

2442
01:57:40,830 --> 01:57:44,000
Sometimes he's got his, like the
way we've described Donald. 

2443
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:46,680
He's got different modes. 
He can be blunt and aggressive 

2444
01:57:46,680 --> 01:57:49,720
and and authoritarian, but he 
can also be really subtle, 

2445
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:51,000
especially when talking to the 
Sheris. 

2446
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:54,120
The book version of him isn't 
quite like that. 

2447
01:57:54,680 --> 01:57:57,440
The book version of him is more 
straightforward, a little blunt.

2448
01:57:57,440 --> 01:57:59,240
He's described as blunt and 
domineering. 

2449
01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:01,560
That doesn't mean he wasn't 
clever or cunning. 

2450
01:58:01,600 --> 01:58:05,160
It just means that it's just one
of his modes. 

2451
01:58:05,710 --> 01:58:07,870
My read on him is he's one of 
those guys that thinks he's 

2452
01:58:07,870 --> 01:58:10,710
cleverer than he actually is. 
Like he is clever, but he thinks

2453
01:58:10,710 --> 01:58:12,870
he's even cleverer. 
He's got a really high 

2454
01:58:12,870 --> 01:58:15,150
confidence in himself. 
I feel like a lot of what you're

2455
01:58:15,150 --> 01:58:17,910
saying is similar to Tywin. 
Like Tywin is want and 

2456
01:58:17,910 --> 01:58:20,830
domineering but also clever, But
maybe not as clever as he 

2457
01:58:20,830 --> 01:58:22,750
thinks. 
And maybe that's why the show 

2458
01:58:22,750 --> 01:58:24,630
wanted to make Otto a little 
difference. 

2459
01:58:24,670 --> 01:58:26,470
Like this guy is a little too 
much like Tywin. 

2460
01:58:26,470 --> 01:58:28,470
We want to make it. 
We want some variety, which I 

2461
01:58:28,470 --> 01:58:29,950
can. 
I can understand that and. 

2462
01:58:29,950 --> 01:58:31,030
It's not like they changed heads
on. 

2463
01:58:31,990 --> 01:58:32,510
Right. 
Yeah. 

2464
01:58:32,510 --> 01:58:35,670
It's not a fundamental change to
plot points, but I think it also

2465
01:58:35,670 --> 01:58:39,270
does add more nuance to this 
scenario. 

2466
01:58:39,310 --> 01:58:40,550
You know, I think so too. 
Yeah. 

2467
01:58:40,550 --> 01:58:41,910
It opens up more possibilities, 
more. 

2468
01:58:41,910 --> 01:58:43,670
We can use our imagination a 
little more as to what he might 

2469
01:58:43,670 --> 01:58:45,430
have been doing and what you 
might have been thinking and how

2470
01:58:45,430 --> 01:58:48,750
soon his ambition began. 
So he comes off as someone who's

2471
01:58:48,750 --> 01:58:51,830
who knows he's richer and higher
status than you, but also thinks

2472
01:58:51,830 --> 01:58:53,030
he's smarter and knows more than
you. 

2473
01:58:53,030 --> 01:58:56,470
So it's like, I'd just better 
you and everything. 

2474
01:58:56,790 --> 01:58:58,470
A really pleasant person, in 
other words. 

2475
01:58:58,470 --> 01:59:02,660
Yeah, still these qualities 
especially the famed quote UN 

2476
01:59:02,660 --> 01:59:04,980
quote learning skills or surely 
what got him noticed in the 1st 

2477
01:59:04,980 --> 01:59:07,140
place. 
The along with his birth 

2478
01:59:07,140 --> 01:59:10,780
obviously gave him huge leg up. 
Was he living at court ahead of 

2479
01:59:10,780 --> 01:59:13,180
his appointment? 
I don't think so but maybe but 

2480
01:59:13,820 --> 01:59:17,060
maybe his Lord father saw his 
potential and foisted him on. 

2481
01:59:17,060 --> 01:59:19,460
The red key was like hey my son,
take my son. 

2482
01:59:19,460 --> 01:59:22,700
He's great, he's great and we 
have to push back a little bit 

2483
01:59:22,700 --> 01:59:25,020
against him being too 
domineering and once, because if

2484
01:59:25,020 --> 01:59:28,790
he had been just rust with 
everyone, he probably wouldn't 

2485
01:59:28,790 --> 01:59:30,750
have gotten away with so much, 
it probably wouldn't have risen.

2486
01:59:30,750 --> 01:59:32,950
Quite so high, you know. 
In other words, if he was 

2487
01:59:33,510 --> 01:59:36,430
domineering and haughty towards 
the king all the time, he would 

2488
01:59:36,430 --> 01:59:38,030
have been fired. 
Well, fired sooner than he was. 

2489
01:59:38,030 --> 01:59:39,950
Because he was fired, let's not 
forget. 

2490
01:59:39,950 --> 01:59:41,590
Or or he might not have been 
hired in the 1st place. 

2491
01:59:41,590 --> 01:59:43,790
But of course Becerris didn't 
hire him. 

2492
01:59:43,790 --> 01:59:46,750
That was Harriss. 
Harris may not have made the 

2493
01:59:46,750 --> 01:59:47,950
right call. 
We'll get back to this in a 

2494
01:59:47,950 --> 01:59:49,110
minute because this isn't what 
yet. 

2495
01:59:49,110 --> 01:59:51,030
When he was hired, I just wanted
to spend a minute on auto. 

2496
01:59:51,030 --> 01:59:54,230
But let's come back to him after
dealing with some other bitness 

2497
01:59:54,270 --> 01:59:57,050
of the era. 
I I will say real quick 

2498
01:59:57,050 --> 01:59:59,410
hindsight's 2020. 
Just because auto didn't end up 

2499
01:59:59,410 --> 02:00:02,450
working out doesn't mean it 
wasn't correct to hire me. 

2500
02:00:02,610 --> 02:00:03,370
That's a good point. 
Yeah. 

2501
02:00:03,370 --> 02:00:05,970
Like he may have seen more 
promising and he may have, yeah,

2502
02:00:05,970 --> 02:00:08,770
they may not have process, may 
not have been flawed. 

2503
02:00:09,050 --> 02:00:11,410
And Viscera could have handled 
things differently that it 

2504
02:00:11,450 --> 02:00:13,210
wouldn't have turned out bad 
with auto right. 

2505
02:00:13,250 --> 02:00:15,010
Like there's a lot of things 
could have gone. 

2506
02:00:15,010 --> 02:00:16,290
You can't blame auto for 
everything. 

2507
02:00:16,290 --> 02:00:23,770
Viscera explain blame In 85 A/C,
Sarah Targaryen, another of the 

2508
02:00:23,770 --> 02:00:27,350
princesses from Jerry Snell 
Sand, was sent there to join the

2509
02:00:27,350 --> 02:00:29,590
faith. 
Unlike Magell, she was. 

2510
02:00:29,590 --> 02:00:31,630
She didn't go voluntarily. 
She was forced there as 

2511
02:00:31,630 --> 02:00:34,270
punishment, but she ran away. 
She escaped. 

2512
02:00:35,270 --> 02:00:37,790
Lord Hightower, whose name we 
don't know. 

2513
02:00:38,310 --> 02:00:42,550
This is probably Otto's father 
sent men after her but failed. 

2514
02:00:42,990 --> 02:00:45,950
In this case, we think it wasn't
like Lord Donald. 

2515
02:00:46,070 --> 02:00:48,670
He actually wanted to succeed in
this case, probably, but didn't.

2516
02:00:48,750 --> 02:00:54,120
Sarah flees overseas and does 
her business and it doesn't have

2517
02:00:54,120 --> 02:00:57,640
much to do with the Hightower. 
After that in 86 A/C Allison 

2518
02:00:57,640 --> 02:01:00,240
announced that their other 
daughter Viscera would marry 

2519
02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:03,560
Theomore Manderly which may have
disappointed the the Hightower 

2520
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:06,120
like that's to them that's 
that's one of the five cities of

2521
02:01:06,120 --> 02:01:09,320
Westeros is White Harbor. 
But Old Town is far more 

2522
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:11,880
prominent than White Harbor far 
older, and the Hightower see 

2523
02:01:11,880 --> 02:01:14,040
themselves as a bigger deal than
the than the Manderly's. 

2524
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:16,040
And in a lot of ways they're not
wrong. 

2525
02:01:17,320 --> 02:01:19,720
But they may not have had an 
available daughter, you know, I 

2526
02:01:19,720 --> 02:01:23,590
mean available son for this. 
And Theomore was believed in 

2527
02:01:23,590 --> 02:01:26,590
line to inherit that marriage 
never even took place because 

2528
02:01:26,590 --> 02:01:29,790
the Sarah, you know had her 
drunk driving accident in the 

2529
02:01:29,830 --> 02:01:34,510
King's Landing before she left 
for White Harbor in 88. 

2530
02:01:34,910 --> 02:01:41,350
A/C Allison was born, which 
gives us a clue as to Otto 

2531
02:01:41,350 --> 02:01:45,670
probably being born more than a 
couple years before age for 

2532
02:01:45,670 --> 02:01:48,310
AC-76, because otherwise he had 
Allison to age 12. 

2533
02:01:48,350 --> 02:01:51,470
Which, it's not impossible, but 
that's it's unlikely. 

2534
02:01:52,530 --> 02:01:55,250
He was probably around 20 when 
Alison was born, safer guests 

2535
02:01:55,250 --> 02:01:59,250
than him being 12. 
Anyway, In 89, Lord Hightower 

2536
02:01:59,250 --> 02:02:02,650
staged attorney for the king 
because the king was traveling. 

2537
02:02:02,650 --> 02:02:03,050
There. 
He did. 

2538
02:02:03,050 --> 02:02:06,850
He was kind of doing his own 
sort of royal progress, but by 

2539
02:02:06,850 --> 02:02:09,610
himself he was kind of sad. 
He and Alison had been fighting.

2540
02:02:09,610 --> 02:02:11,330
They had their quarrel. 
I forget if it was the first or 

2541
02:02:11,330 --> 02:02:14,930
second quarrel. 
I think it was the 1st and 89 

2542
02:02:15,130 --> 02:02:18,730
A/C happened to coincide with 
basically the 40th year 

2543
02:02:18,730 --> 02:02:22,420
anniversary of his reign. 
So they had a tournament and 

2544
02:02:22,420 --> 02:02:26,340
celebrated him and Ryan Red Wine
won the tournament. 

2545
02:02:27,220 --> 02:02:31,260
And just to give you an example 
of how many things were not able

2546
02:02:31,260 --> 02:02:34,060
to touch on in this episode that
I want to touch on, like the 

2547
02:02:34,060 --> 02:02:37,060
relationship between the Arbor. 
Old Town, it's like a completely

2548
02:02:37,060 --> 02:02:38,820
untouched thing. 
Like they're both really 

2549
02:02:38,820 --> 02:02:42,620
powerful, they're right next to 
each other, both really rich and

2550
02:02:42,620 --> 02:02:47,180
have the means to just relax and
do nothing all day if they 

2551
02:02:47,180 --> 02:02:49,100
wanted to. 
You know, like the ones didn't 

2552
02:02:49,100 --> 02:02:51,760
charge of all the wine. 
One's charge of you know 

2553
02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:57,200
everything else and yeah, like, 
but they're not like the Old 

2554
02:02:57,200 --> 02:02:59,240
Town isn't doesn't rule over the
Arbor. 

2555
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:02,360
I mean they have in just long 
past but not recently. 

2556
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,920
So it's got to be a lot of back 
and forth between those two, not

2557
02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:11,600
just and I don't just mean trade
and marriages but yeah, in 96, 

2558
02:03:11,600 --> 02:03:16,480
grayscale came to Old Town and 
Magell was among those who died 

2559
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:20,560
and she died because she was 
working with before, working 

2560
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:24,200
with the sick, doing great 
tragic work. 

2561
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:28,880
So you can see we're moving 
through time a lot faster here. 

2562
02:03:28,920 --> 02:03:31,280
This is just kind of the way the
narrative work for us. 

2563
02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:35,280
There's a lot of unexplored 
stuff in the second-half of the 

2564
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:37,680
Arias's reign. 
The the the focus in our sources

2565
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:41,560
is on the early part of it and 
the same is true for a lot of us

2566
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:43,880
arises reign. 
There's a lot that there's a 

2567
02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:47,640
hyper focus on court and a 
little bit less elsewhere. 

2568
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:53,780
We can infer a lot than we have,
but what I'm saying is there's a

2569
02:03:53,780 --> 02:03:56,820
lot of room for additional 
stories to be told Here. 

2570
02:03:56,860 --> 02:03:58,020
I'll have some more thoughts on 
that. 

2571
02:03:58,140 --> 02:04:02,940
In the outro, Prince Bailon died
in the year One O 1, and that's 

2572
02:04:02,940 --> 02:04:06,700
when Otto became him. 
Jerry said shown better judgment

2573
02:04:06,700 --> 02:04:09,100
with counselors in early life. 
And again, Sean made a good 

2574
02:04:09,100 --> 02:04:13,500
point about maybe this isn't bad
judgment, but he had made other 

2575
02:04:13,500 --> 02:04:15,940
bad choices like Ryan Red Wine 
as hand. 

2576
02:04:16,540 --> 02:04:17,780
Ryan Red wine was a quote, UN 
quote. 

2577
02:04:17,780 --> 02:04:20,440
Disaster as a hand. 
Amazing King's guard night, 

2578
02:04:20,440 --> 02:04:22,080
amazing warrior, but a terrible 
hand. 

2579
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:25,480
I don't know. 
We don't know whether that was a

2580
02:04:25,480 --> 02:04:27,040
good process or not. 
I was like, no one could have 

2581
02:04:27,040 --> 02:04:28,920
seen that coming. 
I kind of feel like that one was

2582
02:04:28,920 --> 02:04:31,760
kind of an obvious mistake but I
don't know for sure. 

2583
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:35,520
Well, I think it's possible 
Bailon was murdered. 

2584
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:38,080
I doubt it. 
And I doubt that if he was, it 

2585
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:40,040
was the High Towers. 
Even though Otto became Hand 

2586
02:04:40,040 --> 02:04:42,160
because there's how could they 
have known who would be chosen 

2587
02:04:42,160 --> 02:04:46,120
his hand unless there's some 
details, some data we don't know

2588
02:04:46,120 --> 02:04:48,880
about, like Otto was just become
really prominent and just showed

2589
02:04:48,880 --> 02:04:50,800
a lot of promise for that 
regard. 

2590
02:04:51,080 --> 02:04:54,400
Like he's a candidate for being 
Hand and there's just pretty 

2591
02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:56,640
much no way they could have 
known out of all the like 

2592
02:04:56,640 --> 02:04:59,440
literally dozens of candidates, 
maybe more than that Jerry could

2593
02:04:59,440 --> 02:05:01,240
have named his hand. 
How could they have known? 

2594
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:03,880
It would be odd, especially 
because Jerry had shown that he 

2595
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:06,960
wanted his hand to be from his 
house. 

2596
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:10,280
He his first hand was when his 
son Eamon was old enough to be 

2597
02:05:10,280 --> 02:05:11,000
Hand. 
He was Hand. 

2598
02:05:11,040 --> 02:05:12,920
When Eamon died Bailon became 
Hand. 

2599
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:15,280
So like how would they have 
known he would even choose a non

2600
02:05:15,360 --> 02:05:18,920
Targaryen anyway? 
It's important to note that the 

2601
02:05:18,920 --> 02:05:24,320
Great Council of One O One came 
before Otto was named Hand, so 

2602
02:05:24,320 --> 02:05:26,680
there was no Hand of the King 
during the Great Council of One 

2603
02:05:26,680 --> 02:05:28,160
O 1. 
That's the important little 

2604
02:05:28,280 --> 02:05:30,360
detail that I think a lot of 
people overlook. 

2605
02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:34,480
The High Towers, of course, 
voted for Vince Harris and well,

2606
02:05:34,760 --> 02:05:36,120
let's have a quote about what 
came next. 

2607
02:05:37,320 --> 02:05:40,650
As his new hand. 
He called upon Sarah Otto 

2608
02:05:40,650 --> 02:05:44,210
Hightower, younger brother to 
Lord Hightower of Old Town. 

2609
02:05:44,570 --> 02:05:47,970
Sarah Otto brought his wife and 
children to court with him and 

2610
02:05:47,970 --> 02:05:51,490
served King Jahari's faithfully 
for the years remaining to him. 

2611
02:05:52,050 --> 02:05:56,610
As the old King's strength and 
wits began to fail, he was off. 

2612
02:05:56,610 --> 02:06:01,730
Confined to his bed, Sarah 
Otto's precocious 15 year old 

2613
02:06:01,730 --> 02:06:06,770
daughter Allison became his 
constant companion, fetching His

2614
02:06:06,770 --> 02:06:10,290
Grace his meals. 
Reading to him, helping him to 

2615
02:06:10,290 --> 02:06:15,010
bathe and dress himself, the old
king sometimes mistook her for 

2616
02:06:15,010 --> 02:06:17,770
one of his daughters, calling 
her by their names. 

2617
02:06:18,250 --> 02:06:21,250
Near the end he grew certain she
was his daughter. 

2618
02:06:21,250 --> 02:06:24,930
Sarah returned to him from 
beyond the Narrow Sea. 

2619
02:06:25,410 --> 02:06:30,690
In the year 103 A/C, King 
Jahari's the First Targaryen 

2620
02:06:31,050 --> 02:06:36,130
died in his bed as Lady Allison 
was reading to him from Septon 

2621
02:06:36,130 --> 02:06:39,740
Barth's Unnatural History. 
Some people have glorious deaths

2622
02:06:39,740 --> 02:06:42,260
and battle. 
Tyrion has his lusty version 

2623
02:06:42,260 --> 02:06:45,700
that he wants to be his but 
reading a sweet book, not the 

2624
02:06:45,700 --> 02:06:47,580
worst death ever. 
Kind of like it actually, minus 

2625
02:06:47,580 --> 02:06:50,060
the dementia part. 
He was like 69 years old by the 

2626
02:06:50,060 --> 02:06:51,580
way. 
I mean that's not particularly 

2627
02:06:51,580 --> 02:06:53,380
old. 
This is another rabbit hole. 

2628
02:06:53,780 --> 02:06:55,980
But not suggesting he was 
murdered, although it's 

2629
02:06:56,380 --> 02:06:58,460
possible. 
Just for another example of a 

2630
02:06:58,460 --> 02:07:01,580
Targaryen just not making it 
into old age very well. 

2631
02:07:01,900 --> 02:07:04,700
They just their mental decline. 
Seems they do pretty well young 

2632
02:07:04,700 --> 02:07:08,250
if they don't have the 
instability from birth, but 

2633
02:07:08,850 --> 02:07:12,570
mental decline seems common 
amongst Targaryen's. 

2634
02:07:12,610 --> 02:07:14,890
Allison didn't seem to have the 
same decline, but she did die 

2635
02:07:14,890 --> 02:07:17,090
before him, so she did have. 
She broke her hip when she was 

2636
02:07:17,090 --> 02:07:20,690
in her 60s, and yeah, so she 
didn't live super long either, 

2637
02:07:20,810 --> 02:07:22,490
although she didn't seem to 
avoid the mental decline. 

2638
02:07:22,490 --> 02:07:25,170
Still, maybe she had some that 
wasn't well documented. 

2639
02:07:25,170 --> 02:07:28,450
It's part of maybe why they 
ceased to get along as well, but

2640
02:07:28,810 --> 02:07:30,650
there's lots of reasons why they
didn't get along that we don't 

2641
02:07:30,650 --> 02:07:32,930
have to chalk up to mental 
health issues. 

2642
02:07:34,750 --> 02:07:37,710
We know that Otto effectively 
rule along with Allison when 

2643
02:07:37,710 --> 02:07:39,710
Viscera was ill near the end of 
his life. 

2644
02:07:39,870 --> 02:07:42,630
That's well documented in Fire 
and Blood and we all saw it on 

2645
02:07:42,630 --> 02:07:44,470
TV. 
Well, assuming you watched that,

2646
02:07:44,470 --> 02:07:47,310
but it was well documented on TV
and that was pretty similar in 

2647
02:07:47,310 --> 02:07:49,070
both book and show. 
It was extended a bit in the 

2648
02:07:49,070 --> 02:07:51,270
show, but either way, it tells 
the story pretty well. 

2649
02:07:51,590 --> 02:07:53,270
But that's a quarter century 
from where we are now. 

2650
02:07:53,270 --> 02:07:55,270
We're still at the beginning 
here. 

2651
02:07:55,630 --> 02:07:57,750
We're still Jerry's is still 
alive where we're at. 

2652
02:07:57,830 --> 02:08:02,030
You recall that Otto also 
effectively ruled around for 

2653
02:08:02,030 --> 02:08:04,390
those two years before Beseris 
was king. 

2654
02:08:04,390 --> 02:08:10,230
Otto ruled for dying to Harry, 
so this is when he did that for 

2655
02:08:10,230 --> 02:08:12,070
Beseris. 
It's it's easy to forget that he

2656
02:08:12,070 --> 02:08:17,190
had practice ruling for a king 
that was bedridden, and so he he

2657
02:08:17,190 --> 02:08:20,830
kind of had insight on what he 
could do, like what his 

2658
02:08:21,070 --> 02:08:23,270
limitations are and aren't this 
basic. 

2659
02:08:23,310 --> 02:08:25,630
It's a lot of experience here. 
I think this is kind. 

2660
02:08:25,630 --> 02:08:27,270
Of what people he could count 
on. 

2661
02:08:27,270 --> 02:08:30,590
He he had the right contacts. 
He knew the star channels of 

2662
02:08:30,630 --> 02:08:34,950
communication and and had 
started to dig in like started 

2663
02:08:34,950 --> 02:08:39,070
to get his hooks into this, into
this office and develop a 

2664
02:08:39,070 --> 02:08:42,950
network and have spies, people 
that would report to him, 

2665
02:08:42,990 --> 02:08:46,110
establish relationships for 
trading information for, for 

2666
02:08:46,110 --> 02:08:49,510
money or whatever. 
So yeah, the the longer he's 

2667
02:08:49,590 --> 02:08:52,070
entrenched in this job, the more
he's able to do with it. 

2668
02:08:52,230 --> 02:08:55,350
Especially when you have a king 
who's dying followed by a king 

2669
02:08:55,350 --> 02:08:56,830
who just kind of doesn't really 
care that much. 

2670
02:08:56,830 --> 02:08:58,350
A king was just like he just 
doesn't. 

2671
02:08:58,350 --> 02:09:03,290
He wants to keep his work to a 
minimum and his partying to a 

2672
02:09:03,290 --> 02:09:06,450
maximum, which gives Otto a lot 
of room to just do what he's 

2673
02:09:06,450 --> 02:09:10,170
doing from his perspective, 
while the Harris mostly just 

2674
02:09:10,170 --> 02:09:12,450
kind of ignores it. 
So Harris, of course, isn't 

2675
02:09:12,450 --> 02:09:15,890
paying much attention because 
he's dying, and as his brain is 

2676
02:09:16,290 --> 02:09:19,050
not what it once was, there's a 
lot he could do. 

2677
02:09:19,810 --> 02:09:23,490
And meanwhile, his brother back 
there, the Lord of Old Town, is 

2678
02:09:24,090 --> 02:09:27,490
his gobetween or his helper, his
backer or his advisor. 

2679
02:09:27,490 --> 02:09:31,020
All these things they're 
plotting together, and he's got 

2680
02:09:31,020 --> 02:09:35,220
the resources of the Hightower 
to facilitate whatever networks 

2681
02:09:35,220 --> 02:09:37,500
he wants, to build his hand to 
the king, to make these things 

2682
02:09:37,500 --> 02:09:40,020
work super well and to connect 
them back to Old Town. 

2683
02:09:40,660 --> 02:09:42,940
Doubleedged swords here, really 
powerful. 

2684
02:09:42,940 --> 02:09:45,740
I mean, we think about spy 
masters like Boris and 

2685
02:09:45,740 --> 02:09:48,260
Littlefinger who are really 
effective and really smart, but 

2686
02:09:48,260 --> 02:09:49,940
consider how little they had to 
start with. 

2687
02:09:49,940 --> 02:09:52,900
They had to work their way up. 
Auto just has all this and he's 

2688
02:09:52,900 --> 02:09:55,960
not as clever as them and he and
there's something to be said for

2689
02:09:55,960 --> 02:09:58,560
having to work your way up gives
you a lot of qualities that you 

2690
02:09:58,560 --> 02:10:01,080
wouldn't have if you were just 
born with all this wealth. 

2691
02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:05,560
But there is certainly other 
advantages to be had by just 

2692
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:07,760
starting with all that wealth 
and prestige and being able to 

2693
02:10:07,760 --> 02:10:09,960
just kick it off. 
Like look what happened when the

2694
02:10:09,960 --> 02:10:12,160
high when people found out the 
Hightowers were joining Lady 

2695
02:10:12,520 --> 02:10:14,520
Alyssa Farman on her voyage are 
like, oh, the Hightowers are 

2696
02:10:14,520 --> 02:10:18,680
going, we're in. 
So just that the name carries so

2697
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:20,840
much weight to it. 
Like, oh, Otto Hightower, eh, 

2698
02:10:21,400 --> 02:10:24,480
he's the Hand. 
Let's go chat with him and see 

2699
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:26,520
what we how we can both benefit 
from this arrangement. 

2700
02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:28,600
And he seems like the kind of 
guy that would play ball 

2701
02:10:29,600 --> 02:10:32,520
without, you know, but keeping 
it subtle, he was still pretty 

2702
02:10:32,520 --> 02:10:34,520
subtle in this regard, even 
though he was dominant and hard 

2703
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:39,200
and haughty and all that stuff, 
the massive resources coming 

2704
02:10:39,200 --> 02:10:41,160
back from Old Town to assist him
in whatever business he was 

2705
02:10:41,160 --> 02:10:43,000
getting into, I think it was a 
pretty big deal. 

2706
02:10:43,400 --> 02:10:45,800
Now, the show gave us some ideas
as to, you know, his brother's 

2707
02:10:45,800 --> 02:10:49,590
pushing him for this and that, 
and we don't know for sure that 

2708
02:10:49,590 --> 02:10:52,470
was happening in Book Cannon, 
but it's a reasonable facsimile 

2709
02:10:52,470 --> 02:10:54,870
of what we would expect. 
Like, I agree with the show's 

2710
02:10:54,870 --> 02:10:58,750
imagination to, you know, as far
as going there. 

2711
02:10:58,750 --> 02:11:01,070
Like, yeah. 
That's very believable. 

2712
02:11:01,070 --> 02:11:02,950
It's it makes sense that this is
how it would go. 

2713
02:11:04,190 --> 02:11:06,190
Yeah, I was going to say I don't
think it's a stretch at all. 

2714
02:11:06,190 --> 02:11:09,510
It's probably the most likely. 
It doesn't mean it is, but it. 

2715
02:11:09,890 --> 02:11:12,370
It seemed like the most likely 
little things, like hail, hail, 

2716
02:11:12,370 --> 02:11:14,850
egg on the Conqueror babe, like 
that little thing like that was 

2717
02:11:14,850 --> 02:11:16,450
really funny. 
But like I kind of think they 

2718
02:11:16,450 --> 02:11:17,850
would do things like that, like 
that. 

2719
02:11:17,890 --> 02:11:20,570
That's I thought it was a nice 
touch Like that is little things

2720
02:11:20,570 --> 02:11:25,170
they would do to push the 
opinion towards their son, their

2721
02:11:25,170 --> 02:11:29,170
kid, their Hightower child, the 
Hightower Targaryen rather than 

2722
02:11:29,370 --> 02:11:32,810
Rainera. 
Again, there's some other 

2723
02:11:32,810 --> 02:11:35,090
Hightowers that we mentioned 
Again, Sir Hobart's around in 

2724
02:11:35,090 --> 02:11:37,090
this time. 
Otto's nephew Ormond. 

2725
02:11:37,450 --> 02:11:40,480
That's his brother's son. 
Ormond is the one who eventually

2726
02:11:40,480 --> 02:11:45,280
becomes Lord during the dance. 
Or not during the dance. 

2727
02:11:45,280 --> 02:11:47,120
Well, he is Lord during the 
dance, but he becomes Lord 

2728
02:11:47,120 --> 02:11:49,040
before the dance. 
We just don't know exactly when 

2729
02:11:49,200 --> 02:11:51,000
Otto's brother dies and Orman 
takes over. 

2730
02:11:51,960 --> 02:11:55,480
There's also Brendan Hightower, 
who's a badass warrior with a 

2731
02:11:55,480 --> 02:11:59,280
wielding a long axe in battle 
for Lord Orman much later, and 

2732
02:11:59,280 --> 02:12:01,360
in the show, Otto is only given 
one son, Gwayne. 

2733
02:12:02,160 --> 02:12:05,130
In the book he has Laurel Son. 
We don't know what the Gwain's 

2734
02:12:05,130 --> 02:12:07,330
the only one we have the name 
for though and Gwain in the 

2735
02:12:07,330 --> 02:12:11,050
books is is not the eldest. 
And what is? 

2736
02:12:11,130 --> 02:12:12,970
Let's talk a little bit. 
Here's another quote about Otto 

2737
02:12:13,410 --> 02:12:16,090
talking about how he 
transitioned from one king to 

2738
02:12:16,090 --> 02:12:18,730
the next. 
Sir Otto Hightower had continued

2739
02:12:18,730 --> 02:12:21,570
in that office, serving the 
grandson as he had the Grand 

2740
02:12:21,570 --> 02:12:23,930
Sire. 
An able man, all agreed, though 

2741
02:12:23,930 --> 02:12:25,890
many found him proud, rust and 
haughty. 

2742
02:12:26,210 --> 02:12:28,450
The longer he served, the more 
imperious Sir Otto became, that 

2743
02:12:28,450 --> 02:12:30,510
was said. 
And many great Lords and princes

2744
02:12:30,510 --> 02:12:33,670
came to resent his manner and 
envy him his access to the Iron 

2745
02:12:33,670 --> 02:12:35,470
Throne. 
The greatest of his rivals was 

2746
02:12:35,470 --> 02:12:38,590
Damon Targaryen, the King's 
ambitious, impetuous, Moody 

2747
02:12:38,590 --> 02:12:41,270
younger brother. 
Yeah, of course we're going to, 

2748
02:12:41,470 --> 02:12:43,190
of course, some of this. 
We've covered a lot elsewhere, 

2749
02:12:43,710 --> 02:12:45,590
so we're going to try to keep 
this from the perspective of the

2750
02:12:45,590 --> 02:12:46,750
high tower. 
Of course, it's hard not to 

2751
02:12:46,750 --> 02:12:48,230
overlap some here and there, but
yeah. 

2752
02:12:48,230 --> 02:12:52,830
Anyway, just a little. 
Yeah, one thought I had here was

2753
02:12:53,110 --> 02:12:55,990
just thinking about something 
you brought up, I'm pretty sure,

2754
02:12:56,030 --> 02:12:58,870
in the last episode. 
The idea that we got to take a 

2755
02:12:58,870 --> 02:13:01,430
lot of perspectives on the high 
towers with a grain of salt 

2756
02:13:01,710 --> 02:13:05,310
because they control so much of 
the history writing that it's 

2757
02:13:05,310 --> 02:13:09,390
going to be more self 
preserving. 

2758
02:13:09,470 --> 02:13:10,790
Is that right? 
Like they you know they're going

2759
02:13:10,790 --> 02:13:11,950
to make themselves look good in 
history. 

2760
02:13:12,790 --> 02:13:14,590
But this is an example where 
auto isn't. 

2761
02:13:14,590 --> 02:13:17,270
Look, now this is maybe a time 
when their control over history 

2762
02:13:17,270 --> 02:13:20,590
is slipping a little, right? 
But it's still worth noting that

2763
02:13:20,590 --> 02:13:23,460
he's. 
Not being presented in the most 

2764
02:13:23,460 --> 02:13:26,420
positive light year, especially 
considering he does seem to be a

2765
02:13:26,420 --> 02:13:29,340
competent hand, you know, so I 
think that's noteworthy. 

2766
02:13:29,700 --> 02:13:32,940
It's also noteworthy that 
whatever angle this is is 

2767
02:13:32,940 --> 02:13:36,940
portraying the negative bits to 
him is being pitched against 

2768
02:13:36,940 --> 02:13:40,580
Damon, the ambitious, impetuous,
Moody younger brother likeable. 

2769
02:13:41,340 --> 02:13:43,460
It makes sense that maybe he's 
not going to get along with that

2770
02:13:43,460 --> 02:13:46,100
guy who is, you know? 
Yeah, that doesn't sound like 

2771
02:13:46,100 --> 02:13:47,460
someone who gets along with a 
lot of people. 

2772
02:13:49,220 --> 02:13:51,820
Either way, the Hightower saw 
the potential in this access to 

2773
02:13:51,820 --> 02:13:53,660
the Iron Throne, and these other
Lords saw it too. 

2774
02:13:53,660 --> 02:13:55,140
They saw they were, they were 
jealous of that. 

2775
02:13:55,140 --> 02:13:57,260
They obviously they were jealous
of it because of its value. 

2776
02:13:58,220 --> 02:14:01,340
And you can. 
It also really tracks, just from

2777
02:14:01,340 --> 02:14:03,580
human perspective, that the 
longer he served, the more 

2778
02:14:03,580 --> 02:14:05,900
imperious he became. 
The more he had his hooks dug 

2779
02:14:05,900 --> 02:14:08,020
into the throne, The more his 
position was established and 

2780
02:14:08,020 --> 02:14:10,580
trenched, the more he could do 
with it, the more arrogant he 

2781
02:14:10,580 --> 02:14:14,260
got. 
That makes total sense now. 

2782
02:14:14,260 --> 02:14:19,680
And of course, his access and 
his attitude surely jumped 

2783
02:14:19,720 --> 02:14:23,080
massively when Allison married 
the king in 106. 

2784
02:14:23,080 --> 02:14:26,000
I mean, that just made must have
made him felt nearly 

2785
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:28,640
bulletproof. 
Like how is he going to not have

2786
02:14:28,640 --> 02:14:31,440
huge influence now his daughter 
has married the king. 

2787
02:14:31,720 --> 02:14:33,640
Now that this is kind of 
unusual, right? 

2788
02:14:33,880 --> 02:14:35,480
This is a good example of soft 
power. 

2789
02:14:35,680 --> 02:14:40,280
There is pretty much no way 
Allison marries the king if Otto

2790
02:14:40,280 --> 02:14:42,880
Hightower isn't. 
There's almost no way he even 

2791
02:14:43,960 --> 02:14:45,320
barely takes notice of her 
otherwise. 

2792
02:14:45,400 --> 02:14:48,350
Now of course part of this also 
started with Allison being at 

2793
02:14:48,350 --> 02:14:51,670
court for Jerry's and getting 
ingrained in the family, being a

2794
02:14:51,670 --> 02:14:53,710
familiar face around court and 
all this stuff. 

2795
02:14:54,030 --> 02:14:57,830
But it started because of Otter 
was hand that was the hand under

2796
02:14:57,830 --> 02:15:00,910
Jerry's just as much as Jerry. 
So and it said he brought his 

2797
02:15:00,910 --> 02:15:04,110
family to court as soon as he 
was hired as Hand. 

2798
02:15:04,110 --> 02:15:07,150
So Allison had been there quite 
a while like good. 

2799
02:15:07,190 --> 02:15:12,670
A good portion of her upbringing
was at the Red Keep, and we can 

2800
02:15:12,670 --> 02:15:16,890
only imagine that his hottiness,
like I said, it jumped even 

2801
02:15:16,890 --> 02:15:17,610
more. 
And his, his. 

2802
02:15:17,730 --> 02:15:20,290
He said he maybe wasn't so 
domineering toward the king and 

2803
02:15:20,290 --> 02:15:21,570
maybe he reserved after 
everybody else. 

2804
02:15:21,570 --> 02:15:23,610
It seemed like he started to get
hotty and a little bit 

2805
02:15:23,610 --> 02:15:27,570
domineering even towards the 
king, because this is when we're

2806
02:15:27,570 --> 02:15:29,930
going to go down, when he get he
pushed too far and got fired, 

2807
02:15:30,770 --> 02:15:32,410
Nina writes. 
And remember, no one was holding

2808
02:15:32,410 --> 02:15:34,730
a gun to Beseris's head and 
saying keep Otto Hightower's 

2809
02:15:34,730 --> 02:15:35,410
hand. 
He didn't. 

2810
02:15:35,410 --> 02:15:37,410
He could have named a new hand 
when he came became king. 

2811
02:15:37,410 --> 02:15:42,470
But he as Beseris's pattern 
seemed to be it ain't broke. 

2812
02:15:42,470 --> 02:15:44,270
Don't fix it. 
And you it's really hard to 

2813
02:15:44,270 --> 02:15:48,710
convince Becerras it's broke. 
So he thinks things are fine 

2814
02:15:48,750 --> 02:15:50,910
most of the times. 
He rarely thinks anything needs 

2815
02:15:50,910 --> 02:15:53,110
fixing and no one forced him to 
marry Alice. 

2816
02:15:53,310 --> 02:15:54,910
These neither of these things 
were. 

2817
02:15:56,150 --> 02:15:58,510
We want to blame Otto's ambition
for some of these things and and

2818
02:15:58,510 --> 02:16:01,470
that's fair. 
But Becerras had to accept them.

2819
02:16:01,550 --> 02:16:03,950
He could have easily said no to 
any of these things or chosen 

2820
02:16:03,950 --> 02:16:07,110
someone else or any of that. 
So yeah, you got to blame 

2821
02:16:07,470 --> 02:16:10,670
Becerras a lot here. 
Nina's points out that, yeah, 

2822
02:16:10,670 --> 02:16:15,100
the high towers were doing 
things that are unethical, but 

2823
02:16:15,140 --> 02:16:18,820
every Lord, every house would 
have done the same, pretty much.

2824
02:16:18,820 --> 02:16:22,020
They would have all wanted the 
same things that Otto got, and 

2825
02:16:22,020 --> 02:16:25,140
they would have not necessarily 
thought his methods were wrong. 

2826
02:16:25,340 --> 02:16:26,660
They would have just been 
jealous. 

2827
02:16:26,660 --> 02:16:29,020
Not like, oh, he was dirty to do
that. 

2828
02:16:29,020 --> 02:16:31,860
No, they would have tried to get
their daughter married to the 

2829
02:16:31,860 --> 02:16:33,900
king, too. 
They're like, fair play, you 

2830
02:16:34,059 --> 02:16:39,379
know? 
But ultimately, yeah, yeah. 

2831
02:16:39,690 --> 02:16:42,410
And people were upset like that.
Just like in the show we saw, 

2832
02:16:42,650 --> 02:16:45,889
the Valarians especially were 
upset by the Ceres's decision to

2833
02:16:45,889 --> 02:16:48,209
marry Allison. 
There was pride involved. 

2834
02:16:48,209 --> 02:16:51,770
But also, it's just probably 
shouldn't have remarried. 

2835
02:16:51,809 --> 02:16:53,370
You know, he just take a lover. 
Sure. 

2836
02:16:53,370 --> 02:16:58,450
But the wife, the stability, the
problems, Yeah, but it's for 

2837
02:16:58,450 --> 02:17:02,049
Ceres, for you. 
So back in the saddle, it's 

2838
02:17:02,049 --> 02:17:05,450
interesting to compare this 
situation to what they had with 

2839
02:17:05,450 --> 02:17:06,610
Nagor. 
Both. 

2840
02:17:06,610 --> 02:17:10,950
Times they're married to the 
secondary branch. 

2841
02:17:12,270 --> 02:17:15,910
In Megor's case it became the 
first branch because of him, but

2842
02:17:15,910 --> 02:17:21,110
in this case they're the reason 
it became the primary branch or 

2843
02:17:21,110 --> 02:17:23,469
tried to become. 
They tried to push their branch 

2844
02:17:23,469 --> 02:17:28,230
above the Rainiers branch. 
That's Les Visaris's fault and 

2845
02:17:28,230 --> 02:17:32,629
more his just in action, right? 
Which is partly his fault. 

2846
02:17:32,629 --> 02:17:35,990
But this is more about the 
conniving of the high towers. 

2847
02:17:35,990 --> 02:17:40,559
I think during Viscera's reign 
as we said, Otto's brother dies 

2848
02:17:40,559 --> 02:17:43,200
and Ormond becomes Lord. 
We don't know when as I said 

2849
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:49,040
before, but I'm suspecting it 
was sometime around one 18120 

2850
02:17:49,040 --> 02:17:50,480
maybe. 
I'm sure pretty much a pure 

2851
02:17:50,480 --> 02:17:53,280
guest though. 
Lionel Hightower, who is Orman's

2852
02:17:53,280 --> 02:17:56,600
son and will be the heir of the 
Hightower during the Dance of 

2853
02:17:56,600 --> 02:17:58,760
the Dragons is born around one 
14115. 

2854
02:17:59,719 --> 02:18:06,510
Also Ormond has Bethany, Martin 
and Garmin and those names may 

2855
02:18:06,510 --> 02:18:09,830
or not mean anything to you, but
Bethany is very important in the

2856
02:18:10,110 --> 02:18:13,709
some drama afterwards and Garmin
well Garmin gets the Targaryen 

2857
02:18:13,709 --> 02:18:15,910
marriage. 
How do I push for Ray Nira? 

2858
02:18:15,910 --> 02:18:19,389
Because he feared Damon would be
another Megor which is a really 

2859
02:18:19,389 --> 02:18:21,510
interesting thing to consider 
given what we just said about 

2860
02:18:21,510 --> 02:18:24,150
the Hightowers. 
Having had this experience with 

2861
02:18:24,150 --> 02:18:27,350
Megor very personally before, 
how did they feel about that on 

2862
02:18:27,350 --> 02:18:29,150
a personal level? 
We know maybe how they felt on a

2863
02:18:29,150 --> 02:18:32,750
political level, on a realm 
level, but like, this is 

2864
02:18:32,750 --> 02:18:36,379
personal. 
Megor was an inlaw of theirs 

2865
02:18:36,780 --> 02:18:41,740
only 40 years or 60 years prior,
4050, whatever. 

2866
02:18:42,100 --> 02:18:44,820
And we know Otto did various 
things to undermine Damon and 

2867
02:18:44,820 --> 02:18:48,139
Damon to him. 
They had their back and forth as

2868
02:18:48,139 --> 02:18:50,059
we see. 
He removed him as Master of 

2869
02:18:50,059 --> 02:18:52,740
Coin, he removed him as Master 
of Laws, and then he became Lord

2870
02:18:52,740 --> 02:18:54,940
Commander of the Gold Cloaks, 
which kind of backfired because 

2871
02:18:54,940 --> 02:18:57,379
then he had a bunch of armed men
under his command right there at

2872
02:18:57,379 --> 02:18:59,980
the Red Key. 
So a good example of Otto maybe 

2873
02:19:00,780 --> 02:19:03,980
not making the right choices for
his own benefit. 

2874
02:19:05,150 --> 02:19:07,070
As the quote notes, Otto was off
putting too. 

2875
02:19:07,070 --> 02:19:09,230
Damon was off. 
Maybe not as bad as Damon, 

2876
02:19:09,230 --> 02:19:12,150
although maybe he was as bad, 
depending on who you're who. 

2877
02:19:12,190 --> 02:19:14,750
You're speaking to some people 
like Damon Moore and people like

2878
02:19:14,750 --> 02:19:16,629
Otto Moore. 
Some probably hated them both. 

2879
02:19:18,309 --> 02:19:20,670
It's highly notable, though, 
that in terms of how likable 

2880
02:19:20,670 --> 02:19:24,150
Otto was and how the Hightower 
was seen in this era, that 

2881
02:19:24,510 --> 02:19:28,469
Costane, Mullindor and Beesbury,
those are all vassals of the 

2882
02:19:28,469 --> 02:19:30,430
Hightower. 
All of them fought for the 

2883
02:19:30,430 --> 02:19:33,570
blacks. 
None of them stayed loyal to the

2884
02:19:33,570 --> 02:19:35,930
High Tower. 
And they all have reasons, very 

2885
02:19:35,930 --> 02:19:37,570
good reasons. 
Of course, the Beesbury is kind 

2886
02:19:37,570 --> 02:19:40,010
of straightforward. 
We see like Lord Beesbury is 

2887
02:19:40,010 --> 02:19:42,090
murdered in that council scene 
near the end there. 

2888
02:19:42,090 --> 02:19:44,090
So that's kind of, that's almost
straightforward. 

2889
02:19:44,090 --> 02:19:47,010
But we also have the example of 
Morgan Hightower and that may 

2890
02:19:47,010 --> 02:19:50,650
have caused some issues. 
The costains, well, we talked 

2891
02:19:50,650 --> 02:19:52,890
about Eleanor Costains. 
So we kind of have an 

2892
02:19:52,890 --> 02:19:55,490
understanding there as to why 
that might have been a split 

2893
02:19:55,730 --> 02:19:57,930
Mullendor. 
I'm not sure what their deal 

2894
02:19:57,930 --> 02:20:00,530
was, why they fought for the 
blacks, but I. 

2895
02:20:00,530 --> 02:20:03,560
Think they just mulled it over? 
That's a good point. 

2896
02:20:03,560 --> 02:20:06,320
They mulled it over and decided 
to fight for Rainier, but either

2897
02:20:06,320 --> 02:20:08,280
way it's very notable they 
didn't fight for the high 

2898
02:20:08,280 --> 02:20:12,160
towers, especially with the high
towers being really close by. 

2899
02:20:12,520 --> 02:20:15,200
Much more able to punish them if
something goes wrong, versus 

2900
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:18,960
King's Landing being almost as 
far as away it is as it is from 

2901
02:20:18,960 --> 02:20:24,440
Old Town now, Nina says. 
We should consider the other 

2902
02:20:24,440 --> 02:20:26,160
angle here. 
It's not possible to hit the 

2903
02:20:26,160 --> 02:20:27,920
high towers were villains to 
their vassals simply because 

2904
02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:30,000
their vassals fought on the 
opposite side of the Civil War. 

2905
02:20:30,850 --> 02:20:34,130
The Black Fire rebellion gives 
us a ton of examples of houses 

2906
02:20:34,130 --> 02:20:39,530
joining with Damon over the Red 
Dragons and that includes going 

2907
02:20:39,530 --> 02:20:42,410
against their overload, so it 
it's not super uncommon. 

2908
02:20:42,530 --> 02:20:45,210
Robert rebellion, same thing. 
There were standis talks about 

2909
02:20:45,210 --> 02:20:47,970
what a difficult choice it was 
to fight for your family or for 

2910
02:20:47,970 --> 02:20:52,450
your your king. 
So lots of Lords and ladies have

2911
02:20:52,450 --> 02:20:54,490
had this difficult decision over
time. 

2912
02:20:55,010 --> 02:20:57,810
It just so happens that we have 
some reasons that it may have 

2913
02:20:57,810 --> 02:21:00,560
been personal between. 
High Tower and one of their 

2914
02:21:00,560 --> 02:21:04,600
vassals, or multiple vassals. 
But before that, it happened 

2915
02:21:04,600 --> 02:21:08,080
before the war breaks out. 
We got 30 years of maybe back 

2916
02:21:08,080 --> 02:21:11,960
and forth of Lord Hightower and 
his son Ormond, and maybe even a

2917
02:21:11,960 --> 02:21:13,320
little bit of Otto. 
Because remember, Otto was 

2918
02:21:13,320 --> 02:21:15,040
fired. 
So for a while he was back in 

2919
02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:16,880
Old Town. 
It was 10 years of him being 

2920
02:21:16,880 --> 02:21:19,240
back in Old Town. 
They would have maybe been 

2921
02:21:19,240 --> 02:21:21,880
trying to negotiate with their 
vassals, being like keep them on

2922
02:21:21,880 --> 02:21:24,120
their side because they may have
been seeing they're still 

2923
02:21:24,120 --> 02:21:26,560
angling for an eventual 
conflict, although they're 

2924
02:21:26,560 --> 02:21:28,360
hoping it won't be a con, 
They're just hoping that they 

2925
02:21:28,360 --> 02:21:30,580
win the throne. 
As bloodlessly as possible. 

2926
02:21:30,940 --> 02:21:35,300
But they have to know that it 
might not go that smoothly and 

2927
02:21:35,300 --> 02:21:37,500
to prevent that outcome, they 
want to have. 

2928
02:21:37,780 --> 02:21:39,780
You saw what they did. 
They tried to just win through 

2929
02:21:39,780 --> 02:21:43,300
sheer force, like you don't even
want to fight us because half 

2930
02:21:43,500 --> 02:21:45,100
more than half the realm is 
already on our side. 

2931
02:21:45,460 --> 02:21:48,500
They wanted to try to keep the 
blacks from even trying. 

2932
02:21:48,660 --> 02:21:51,300
They're like, look, there's 80% 
of the realms on our side. 

2933
02:21:51,300 --> 02:21:53,860
You're not going to, you can't 
win, don't even try. 

2934
02:21:53,860 --> 02:21:56,340
That's they wanted to overwhelm 
them before it even got started.

2935
02:21:56,820 --> 02:21:59,530
So you would think that. 
This would include trying to 

2936
02:21:59,810 --> 02:22:02,450
make sure their own vassals were
on their side for when that 

2937
02:22:02,450 --> 02:22:03,810
moment eventually came, if it 
came. 

2938
02:22:06,050 --> 02:22:09,850
I also wonder if Auto had 
anything to do with Vasaris not 

2939
02:22:09,850 --> 02:22:11,450
claiming a dragon. 
I wouldn't think he would push 

2940
02:22:11,450 --> 02:22:15,090
Vasaris to not claim a dragon. 
You might push Vasaris to claim 

2941
02:22:15,090 --> 02:22:17,130
one, and Vasaris is like, Nah, I
don't want to, I don't want to 

2942
02:22:17,130 --> 02:22:18,530
have a dragon. 
But it's kind of interesting 

2943
02:22:18,730 --> 02:22:21,410
that to wonder if there had been
any conversations of that 

2944
02:22:21,410 --> 02:22:25,490
regard, because Targarians 
usually have Dragons and Vasaris

2945
02:22:25,490 --> 02:22:27,130
was like, yeah, Valerian died, 
I'm good. 

2946
02:22:28,280 --> 02:22:29,280
I wonder, yeah, I would have 
pushed that. 

2947
02:22:29,280 --> 02:22:33,320
Way I can imagine him maybe not 
pushing him to not get a new 

2948
02:22:33,320 --> 02:22:36,520
dragon, but not pushing him to 
get a new dragon. 

2949
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:38,640
No, the serious is finding that 
happening. 

2950
02:22:38,720 --> 02:22:40,640
Hey, I was happy with him not 
having it too. 

2951
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:42,840
Yeah. 
And I also wonder later remember

2952
02:22:42,840 --> 02:22:45,560
Rainier Rainier's children, 
their their eggs hatched. 

2953
02:22:45,680 --> 02:22:47,200
Their Valerian children, their 
eggs hatched. 

2954
02:22:47,200 --> 02:22:48,960
And that was for a lot of people
who didn't expect that to 

2955
02:22:48,960 --> 02:22:51,400
happen. 
I wonder if the Hightower 

2956
02:22:51,400 --> 02:22:53,720
expected it. 
We know Allison expressed that 

2957
02:22:53,720 --> 02:22:55,920
she was surprised it would 
happen and kind of frustration 

2958
02:22:55,920 --> 02:22:58,110
that those eggs hatched. 
I wonder if the High Tower 

2959
02:22:58,110 --> 02:22:59,790
expected that. 
Did they consult the books? 

2960
02:22:59,790 --> 02:23:02,150
Were they like, yeah, we don't 
think they're going to hatch. 

2961
02:23:02,150 --> 02:23:04,190
And Allison was acting on that. 
Maybe she was. 

2962
02:23:05,190 --> 02:23:07,510
Maybe that came from a point of 
knowledge rather than just 

2963
02:23:08,230 --> 02:23:09,830
wishful thinking. 
It's like, well, of course those

2964
02:23:09,830 --> 02:23:11,470
eggs won't hatch. 
They're not true Targaryens. 

2965
02:23:11,470 --> 02:23:15,790
But maybe there was some real, 
like, lore behind that belief 

2966
02:23:16,630 --> 02:23:19,830
rather than just a, you know, 
petulance, which it may have 

2967
02:23:19,830 --> 02:23:21,750
been. 
So that's that's interesting as 

2968
02:23:21,750 --> 02:23:23,710
well. 
You know, in 109 he had. 

2969
02:23:23,910 --> 02:23:25,990
That's when he pushed too hard, 
was fired. 

2970
02:23:26,550 --> 02:23:31,070
About the matter of succession. 
But by then Allison was well 

2971
02:23:31,070 --> 02:23:32,510
established. 
So it's almost like he maybe he 

2972
02:23:32,510 --> 02:23:35,510
could afford to take this risk 
because even with him gone, 

2973
02:23:35,510 --> 02:23:39,150
Allison was still had her hooks 
and Becerras by this point and 

2974
02:23:39,150 --> 02:23:40,990
had a lot of sway over what he 
was doing. 

2975
02:23:40,990 --> 02:23:45,350
Remember this is a much older, 
wiser and angrier version than 

2976
02:23:45,350 --> 02:23:48,950
the show gave us. 
She had a following and A and a 

2977
02:23:49,390 --> 02:23:51,990
not just Kristen Cole. 
Although she didn't have Kristen

2978
02:23:51,990 --> 02:23:54,710
Cole in 109, she had a lot of 
people that. 

2979
02:23:55,770 --> 02:23:58,530
Supported her because of her 
dominance, because of her strong

2980
02:23:58,530 --> 02:24:02,050
personality and her high place 
and high station, we can assume 

2981
02:24:02,050 --> 02:24:05,610
there's a lot of correspondence.
Otto sending letters to Allison.

2982
02:24:05,690 --> 02:24:08,130
Allison Lennon sending letters 
to her back. 

2983
02:24:08,170 --> 02:24:10,650
Other high towers Getting 
involved, maybe talking to his 

2984
02:24:10,650 --> 02:24:13,410
brother, Getting his advice 
before sending things to 

2985
02:24:13,410 --> 02:24:15,330
Allison. 
Allison might not always do what

2986
02:24:15,330 --> 02:24:18,010
they thought was best, however. 
She may have her own ideas and 

2987
02:24:18,210 --> 02:24:20,250
who knows? 
For example, here's a good one. 

2988
02:24:21,110 --> 02:24:24,670
In the show we saw Otto make the
very odd offer of Agon to to 

2989
02:24:24,670 --> 02:24:26,670
Rainier. 
Now it's even odder in the show 

2990
02:24:26,670 --> 02:24:29,150
because Agon's 2 and Rainier is 
like 16. 

2991
02:24:29,150 --> 02:24:30,630
In the books. 
It's a little less weird because

2992
02:24:30,630 --> 02:24:34,350
Agon's 6 and Rainier is 16. 
Still pretty weird, but a little

2993
02:24:34,350 --> 02:24:35,630
less weird. 
But the more important point 

2994
02:24:35,630 --> 02:24:37,190
here is that Allison makes that 
offer. 

2995
02:24:37,390 --> 02:24:41,230
Not Otto, but it may have been 
Otto's idea but it doesn't have 

2996
02:24:41,230 --> 02:24:43,110
to have been like it easily 
could have been Allison's idea, 

2997
02:24:43,110 --> 02:24:44,790
like they're look they're going 
for the same goal. 

2998
02:24:45,270 --> 02:24:48,630
But it's interesting to note 
this is a point of as an example

2999
02:24:48,630 --> 02:24:52,030
of Allison. 
May have made the offer, may 

3000
02:24:52,030 --> 02:24:54,230
have wanted to make there, but 
she may have consulted with Otto

3001
02:24:54,230 --> 02:24:57,270
1st and like well, what's the 
best way for me to bring this 

3002
02:24:57,270 --> 02:24:58,750
up? 
Maybe is there anything you can 

3003
02:24:58,750 --> 02:25:02,790
suggest for me to like how to 
approach the conversation or 

3004
02:25:02,910 --> 02:25:05,910
something I can say to Anyway, 
she may not have needed that, 

3005
02:25:05,910 --> 02:25:09,750
but it's entirely possible she 
was, and I think Hightower Pride

3006
02:25:09,750 --> 02:25:11,430
might have mattered a lot here 
too. 

3007
02:25:12,750 --> 02:25:17,550
Sure, the ambition is huge, but.
If they lose to House Valerian 

3008
02:25:17,550 --> 02:25:19,910
in this sort of competition for 
Vaseirs, that's one thing. 

3009
02:25:19,910 --> 02:25:23,230
But if they lose to bastards, I 
think that actually mattered. 

3010
02:25:23,230 --> 02:25:26,950
Like we sit here going on, we 
don't care but yourself in the 

3011
02:25:26,950 --> 02:25:28,910
shoes of these super 
high-ranking nobles. 

3012
02:25:28,910 --> 02:25:32,270
To them bastards are just so 
wrong, you know, they're like, 

3013
02:25:32,390 --> 02:25:35,190
oh bastards. 
All they do is steal land from 

3014
02:25:35,190 --> 02:25:38,550
entitles from trueborn children 
who really deserve it. 

3015
02:25:38,550 --> 02:25:42,830
And they it's it's wrapped up in
the faith like they believe 

3016
02:25:42,830 --> 02:25:47,340
these bastards are are. 
Born of lust and our bust 

3017
02:25:47,780 --> 02:25:51,940
themselves spoiled goods, you 
know they're spoiled by the gods

3018
02:25:51,940 --> 02:25:54,900
haven't blessed this union. 
This this child isn't born under

3019
02:25:54,900 --> 02:25:56,980
the auspices of the 7th, so 
something's wrong with them. 

3020
02:25:57,580 --> 02:26:01,460
This belief might be a little 
bit more prominent in high 

3021
02:26:01,460 --> 02:26:04,020
towers, or at least the way they
want to present themselves to 

3022
02:26:04,020 --> 02:26:06,660
their constituents and vassals 
because they got to keep up 

3023
02:26:06,660 --> 02:26:09,340
appearances that they're 
believers in the faith. 

3024
02:26:09,900 --> 02:26:13,980
Which brings us as well to how 
much the faith started to move 

3025
02:26:13,980 --> 02:26:16,960
in. 
At King's Landing during this 

3026
02:26:17,000 --> 02:26:22,840
era, we see Damon and Rainier, 
like, what is all this stuff? 

3027
02:26:23,120 --> 02:26:25,480
What are all these seven pointed
stars doing here? 

3028
02:26:25,480 --> 02:26:28,840
Man, like that. 
That also happened in the books.

3029
02:26:28,840 --> 02:26:32,400
It didn't happen quite the same 
way, but yeah, there's a lot of 

3030
02:26:33,400 --> 02:26:37,560
them cloaking themselves in the 
faith to make their actions look

3031
02:26:37,560 --> 02:26:42,960
justified, and that includes 
Haroldry and iconography and. 

3032
02:26:43,940 --> 02:26:48,980
Speeches and performances and 
meetings with the High Septin 

3033
02:26:48,980 --> 02:26:56,220
just public events to show their
piety and in addition to that it

3034
02:26:56,220 --> 02:26:57,940
may have manifested its false 
confidence. 

3035
02:26:57,940 --> 02:27:01,100
Like high towers are proud and 
pride leads to confidence in a 

3036
02:27:01,100 --> 02:27:03,140
lot of ways false confidence. 
In this case, as I'm saying 

3037
02:27:03,620 --> 02:27:06,940
surely that woman will not 
become queen over the boy agon. 

3038
02:27:07,500 --> 02:27:11,820
That kind of attitude that like 
self perpetuating belief that 

3039
02:27:12,220 --> 02:27:14,590
because it's. 
What they want It's going to 

3040
02:27:14,590 --> 02:27:18,830
happen. 
And maybe Allison didn't need 

3041
02:27:18,830 --> 02:27:23,510
their advice on handling her own
husband, but she may have wanted

3042
02:27:23,510 --> 02:27:28,390
advice on how to split Damon 
from the how to put a wedge 

3043
02:27:28,390 --> 02:27:31,310
between the two, or how to keep 
Rainier up from gaining powerful

3044
02:27:31,310 --> 02:27:33,870
supporters. 
Or how do you more ways to use 

3045
02:27:33,870 --> 02:27:37,870
the faith to their advantage to 
make to rise their branch of 

3046
02:27:37,870 --> 02:27:40,590
House Targaryen above the 
Valerian side? 

3047
02:27:41,980 --> 02:27:44,100
Remember, Sarah's considered 
marrying Rainier to the Prince 

3048
02:27:44,100 --> 02:27:47,100
of Dorn at one point. 
I. 

3049
02:27:47,100 --> 02:27:49,460
Wonder if Allison weighed in on 
that one way or the other. 

3050
02:27:49,460 --> 02:27:54,540
Like no, don't or yes do or I 
don't know. 

3051
02:27:54,580 --> 02:27:55,660
I'm not sure whether they would 
have won. 

3052
02:27:55,740 --> 02:27:57,940
I think, no, I don't think they 
would have want Dorn brought 

3053
02:27:57,940 --> 02:28:00,620
into the realm at this point. 
But maybe they maybe they would 

3054
02:28:00,620 --> 02:28:03,340
have seen a benefit to it. 
And I think if you think that 

3055
02:28:03,740 --> 02:28:08,820
there's a risk of of of you not 
wanting Rainier as queen, right,

3056
02:28:09,140 --> 02:28:12,470
you don't want her married to 
the Prince of Dorn because then 

3057
02:28:12,470 --> 02:28:16,070
you're just going to lead to her
having like a whole Kingdom able

3058
02:28:16,070 --> 02:28:17,510
to defend her. 
That's true. 

3059
02:28:18,550 --> 02:28:18,230
About Kingdom. 
It's a whole other. 

3060
02:28:19,110 --> 02:28:21,830
That was so for her being king 
specifically, they're more used 

3061
02:28:21,830 --> 02:28:23,430
to the woman being in charge, 
right? 

3062
02:28:23,430 --> 02:28:24,190
You're right. 
Dangerous. 

3063
02:28:24,190 --> 02:28:25,790
Like if you you marry her to the
Prince of Dorne. 

3064
02:28:25,790 --> 02:28:28,550
If you think she should be king.
I mean, it should be queen. 

3065
02:28:28,590 --> 02:28:30,830
That's the only way. 
I think you're right both of 

3066
02:28:30,830 --> 02:28:32,270
y'all. 
So I think Allison probably was 

3067
02:28:32,270 --> 02:28:34,350
like, no, like let's not do 
that. 

3068
02:28:34,990 --> 02:28:38,230
And she may have written Otto 
and been like, well, how should 

3069
02:28:38,230 --> 02:28:39,970
I best? 
Talk him out of this. 

3070
02:28:39,970 --> 02:28:42,610
Like I'm trying to talk him out.
And like, I'm not saying Allison

3071
02:28:42,610 --> 02:28:44,250
constantly needed advice from 
her father. 

3072
02:28:44,250 --> 02:28:46,250
She could have done a lot of the
things on her own, but that 

3073
02:28:46,250 --> 02:28:49,130
option was always there. 
She might have wanted him to 

3074
02:28:49,130 --> 02:28:51,610
weigh in. 
Just maybe he says something she

3075
02:28:51,610 --> 02:28:53,370
didn't think of. 
Maybe he has some advice like 

3076
02:28:53,370 --> 02:28:55,130
he's been. 
He has a lot of experience, so 

3077
02:28:55,130 --> 02:28:57,050
you can see why she might. 
He's her father, you know. 

3078
02:28:57,050 --> 02:28:59,290
She might be getting advice from
her father one way or the other.

3079
02:28:59,290 --> 02:29:01,650
Where she wants her asked for 
tonight, he's still is probably 

3080
02:29:01,650 --> 02:29:03,370
giving it to me. 
He's domineering hot, he said. 

3081
02:29:03,370 --> 02:29:06,650
He may have been sending her 
unsolicited advice and some of 

3082
02:29:06,650 --> 02:29:08,130
it may have actually been useful
or. 

3083
02:29:08,930 --> 02:29:10,050
Okay. 
Well, you make a good point 

3084
02:29:10,050 --> 02:29:11,250
here, Dad. 
I'll do this. 

3085
02:29:12,410 --> 02:29:15,130
Grand Meister runs that are died
in the year 112 and was replaced

3086
02:29:15,130 --> 02:29:18,970
by Grandmaster Melos. 
Interesting point. 

3087
02:29:18,970 --> 02:29:21,330
Did the high towers weigh in on 
who was going to be chosen as 

3088
02:29:21,330 --> 02:29:23,290
Grand Meister in such an 
important time? 

3089
02:29:23,290 --> 02:29:25,650
Or did they not care that much 
because the service is already 

3090
02:29:25,650 --> 02:29:27,610
kind of a pushover and they're 
kind of getting what they want? 

3091
02:29:27,610 --> 02:29:31,920
I don't know Melos. 
May not have been if they chose 

3092
02:29:31,920 --> 02:29:33,400
him. 
I'm thinking they didn't get 

3093
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:35,960
what they wanted because Melas 
encouraged the match between 

3094
02:29:35,960 --> 02:29:40,120
Leonor and Rainera. 
He encouraged the valerian match

3095
02:29:40,120 --> 02:29:42,760
here, but he knew. 
But everybody knew Leonor was 

3096
02:29:42,760 --> 02:29:45,800
gay, so maybe he was doing that 
to encourage a dead end marriage

3097
02:29:45,800 --> 02:29:47,240
like they were. 
Maybe they were thinking there 

3098
02:29:47,240 --> 02:29:49,120
wouldn't be kids here. 
Maybe that's what they thought 

3099
02:29:49,120 --> 02:29:50,280
would happen. 
They're like Leonor is going to 

3100
02:29:50,280 --> 02:29:52,680
marry and ERA and they won't 
have any kids and that's our 

3101
02:29:52,680 --> 02:29:55,210
chance. 
We'll be, you know, we we get to

3102
02:29:55,210 --> 02:29:58,210
inherit that way, it's a better 
opportunity for us to usurp 

3103
02:29:58,210 --> 02:30:00,370
their line if it has no 
descendants. 

3104
02:30:01,050 --> 02:30:06,450
It's a really good flaw to 
expose in a bloodline that it's 

3105
02:30:06,450 --> 02:30:08,650
going to die, it's going to end.
So they may have thought they 

3106
02:30:08,650 --> 02:30:13,530
could sneakily end Rainier his 
line by marrying her to a gay 

3107
02:30:13,530 --> 02:30:15,850
man. 
It obviously didn't work because

3108
02:30:16,210 --> 02:30:20,690
they got around that with a a 
certain strong method. 

3109
02:30:22,240 --> 02:30:24,000
Mellos was also considered a 
friend of the king. 

3110
02:30:24,400 --> 02:30:27,600
But this is a. 
Weird point, they say. 

3111
02:30:28,840 --> 02:30:31,440
Beserra's considered Mellos a 
friend, but Mellos actually 

3112
02:30:32,480 --> 02:30:34,280
floated. 
In. 

3113
02:30:34,480 --> 02:30:37,280
His histories, that Beserras 
might have been the one to 

3114
02:30:37,280 --> 02:30:43,720
murder the Strongs sound like a 
friend would do openly accuse 

3115
02:30:43,720 --> 02:30:46,320
you of murder? 
That's kind of an odd moment, 

3116
02:30:46,320 --> 02:30:48,760
but but Beserra's considers 
everyone his friend. 

3117
02:30:48,800 --> 02:30:52,880
You know, anyway. 
He was not particularly 

3118
02:30:52,880 --> 02:30:55,320
successful with his treatments 
and the show dragged this out a 

3119
02:30:55,320 --> 02:30:58,040
lot longer. 
But in the book, remember 

3120
02:30:58,040 --> 02:31:02,080
Viscera's hand injury occurs 
much later in his reign and he 

3121
02:31:02,600 --> 02:31:04,240
is unsuccessful with his 
treatments. 

3122
02:31:04,240 --> 02:31:07,920
And it's Girardi's brainer is 
Maester who comes and amputates 

3123
02:31:07,920 --> 02:31:10,120
the fingers and that actually 
seems to do a decent job. 

3124
02:31:10,720 --> 02:31:15,200
Allison complains and is like, 
no, you maimed him. 

3125
02:31:15,680 --> 02:31:19,320
Call my Maester from the High 
Tower instead to replace him. 

3126
02:31:19,780 --> 02:31:23,100
And Brainerd's like Girardi 
already did a good job use him. 

3127
02:31:23,100 --> 02:31:26,540
And Beser is like, I don't 
choose the Grand Meister. 

3128
02:31:26,540 --> 02:31:27,860
You don't choose the Grand 
Meister. 

3129
02:31:27,860 --> 02:31:29,700
The Senatel chooses the Grand 
Meister. 

3130
02:31:30,220 --> 02:31:35,540
And Allison's like, yeah, my 
family is like, but they sent or

3131
02:31:35,540 --> 02:31:40,060
while or while seemed to bow to 
Otto on most wishes. 

3132
02:31:40,060 --> 02:31:44,700
So it seems like maybe Allison 
got kind of got what she wanted 

3133
02:31:44,700 --> 02:31:47,060
even though it wasn't precise. 
Meister she named. 

3134
02:31:48,200 --> 02:31:50,440
She got someone that mostly did 
what Otto wanted. 

3135
02:31:50,440 --> 02:31:53,240
And of course by the time to 
127, Otto is backed by that. 

3136
02:31:55,000 --> 02:31:57,360
Now, I would also want to know 
the Hightower reaction Otto's, 

3137
02:31:57,360 --> 02:32:00,040
especially when Damon had 
children with Lena. 

3138
02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:02,680
Whose daughters would they 
marry? 

3139
02:32:03,080 --> 02:32:04,560
I mean, who? 
Who would those daughters marry?

3140
02:32:04,560 --> 02:32:05,920
Rather? 
Whose sons would those daughters

3141
02:32:05,920 --> 02:32:09,200
marry, They'd wonder. 
Maybe they even considered 

3142
02:32:09,280 --> 02:32:13,160
marrying them into their family,
but nothing really ever happened

3143
02:32:13,160 --> 02:32:18,140
there except. 
When it did, way, way later in 

3144
02:32:18,140 --> 02:32:21,140
114, Daron who became Daron, the
Daring was born. 

3145
02:32:22,140 --> 02:32:23,900
So that's important because 
Daron's going to live in Old 

3146
02:32:23,900 --> 02:32:24,940
Town. 
We'll come back to that in a 

3147
02:32:24,940 --> 02:32:27,340
minute. 
It was the year 120 when Otto 

3148
02:32:27,340 --> 02:32:29,220
came back to the Red Keep to 
become Hand again. 

3149
02:32:30,580 --> 02:32:34,060
I'm assuming his brother was 
dead by this point, and so he 

3150
02:32:34,060 --> 02:32:37,060
had probably been in Old Town 
when his brother died and Ormond

3151
02:32:37,780 --> 02:32:42,030
became Lord of the High Tower. 
So this changes the dynamic a 

3152
02:32:42,030 --> 02:32:43,750
bit. 
Instead of brothers working 

3153
02:32:43,750 --> 02:32:46,590
together, Lord Hightower and his
brother Otto, you've got the son

3154
02:32:46,590 --> 02:32:49,910
and and his uncle or uncle and 
nephew. 

3155
02:32:50,750 --> 02:32:54,150
So that's just a different, like
different personalities involved

3156
02:32:54,150 --> 02:32:55,590
here. 
Maybe Otto and Ormond don't work

3157
02:32:55,590 --> 02:32:58,950
together as well as Otto and 
whoever his name was, Ho Bear in

3158
02:32:58,950 --> 02:33:02,150
the show. 
So a lot of other things that 

3159
02:33:02,150 --> 02:33:04,990
happened in there, like this is 
the year of the Red Spring, so 

3160
02:33:04,990 --> 02:33:08,130
this is a very eventful year. 
Payment, claims Bagar. 

3161
02:33:08,130 --> 02:33:10,850
So the high towers are like. 
Yeah, we got. 

3162
02:33:10,890 --> 02:33:13,410
That that massively increases 
our fortunes. 

3163
02:33:14,170 --> 02:33:16,290
Not to mention they had other 
Dragons in general. 

3164
02:33:17,210 --> 02:33:20,050
The blacks had bigger Dragons, 
even with Bagar on the other 

3165
02:33:20,050 --> 02:33:23,970
side. 
But but given time right, small 

3166
02:33:23,970 --> 02:33:26,650
Dragons become big ones. 
Big Dragons only get a little 

3167
02:33:26,650 --> 02:33:29,930
bit bigger, so these time was 
going to be on their side. 

3168
02:33:29,930 --> 02:33:34,210
In terms of Dragon growth, of 
course, there wasn't quite as 

3169
02:33:34,210 --> 02:33:35,730
much time as Otto may have hoped
for. 

3170
02:33:36,220 --> 02:33:37,620
Or maybe they hope. 
They. 

3171
02:33:37,780 --> 02:33:40,140
Of course, I don't really hope 
that there would be no war at 

3172
02:33:40,140 --> 02:33:43,060
all, but the years weren't ran 
on. 

3173
02:33:43,060 --> 02:33:45,180
Not only did the number of 
Dragons on both sides grow, so 

3174
02:33:45,180 --> 02:33:46,620
did the number of just outright 
children. 

3175
02:33:46,620 --> 02:33:49,620
They're just the factions just 
grew and grew and it had a 

3176
02:33:49,620 --> 02:33:50,620
second generation. 
Now. 

3177
02:33:50,660 --> 02:33:56,020
Aegon and Helena had Jerry's and
Jara and then Maylor and 123 and

3178
02:33:56,020 --> 02:34:01,020
127 respectively. 
In 126, they inched closer to 

3179
02:34:01,020 --> 02:34:04,220
having. 
Dragons be a familiar sight in 

3180
02:34:04,220 --> 02:34:06,780
Old Town, which I think was 
probably a goal of theirs in the

3181
02:34:06,780 --> 02:34:08,220
long term. 
Of course it was never fully 

3182
02:34:08,220 --> 02:34:12,580
manifested, but Prince Daron and
his dragon to Serion the Blue 

3183
02:34:12,580 --> 02:34:16,020
Queen went to Old Town not just 
to like live there, but to 

3184
02:34:16,020 --> 02:34:19,820
Squire for Lord Orman. 
How often is a dragon Prince a 

3185
02:34:19,820 --> 02:34:22,940
Squire? 
Well, actually a few times, but 

3186
02:34:23,780 --> 02:34:25,620
not many times. 
In fact we hear loose 

3187
02:34:25,620 --> 02:34:27,660
Arisenville and Aries for 
Squires. 

3188
02:34:27,660 --> 02:34:30,820
But to who? 
I'm not sure to who this may 

3189
02:34:30,820 --> 02:34:33,350
have been to Damon. 
Which which is like okay, you're

3190
02:34:33,350 --> 02:34:35,110
a dragon Prince Squire. 
For another dragon Prince, 

3191
02:34:35,110 --> 02:34:38,990
that's more appropriate. 
But putting this kid below Lord 

3192
02:34:38,990 --> 02:34:41,350
Hightower is this kind of an 
interesting little dynamic 

3193
02:34:41,350 --> 02:34:42,790
there. 
And he's not just a Squire 

3194
02:34:42,790 --> 02:34:45,550
though he's his cup bear, but 
that as far as I know he's not 

3195
02:34:45,550 --> 02:34:48,870
heard of. 
For a dragon riding Prince, not 

3196
02:34:48,870 --> 02:34:51,190
a Targaryen that we have seen. 
But the dragon riding Prince to 

3197
02:34:51,190 --> 02:34:56,830
be a cup bearer for a Lord and 
he's there for three years 

3198
02:34:56,870 --> 02:34:59,070
before the war breaks out. 
That's three years of. 

3199
02:34:59,560 --> 02:35:02,440
Ormond and Daron getting to know
each other, Of Ormond being in 

3200
02:35:02,440 --> 02:35:04,000
the authority position over 
Daron. 

3201
02:35:04,000 --> 02:35:09,080
Daron's a good kid, but not a 
not a, not someone who pushes 

3202
02:35:09,080 --> 02:35:12,040
back against authority. 
Dutiful Squire, we told someone 

3203
02:35:12,040 --> 02:35:17,200
who took orders and followed the
noble hierarchy as as bit of a 

3204
02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:18,760
conservative in that regard, I 
suppose. 

3205
02:35:19,760 --> 02:35:21,840
But this whole thing about 
Dragons being there and it 

3206
02:35:21,840 --> 02:35:24,400
getting normal and normal. 
More normal for Dragons to be 

3207
02:35:24,400 --> 02:35:26,400
there and this dragon that lived
there, that's. 

3208
02:35:26,850 --> 02:35:28,930
We've had Dragons visit there, 
but this is the first dragon to 

3209
02:35:28,930 --> 02:35:32,330
live in Old Town. 
At least unless maybe you go 

3210
02:35:32,330 --> 02:35:33,810
back thousands, thousands of 
years. 

3211
02:35:33,810 --> 02:35:36,050
There's maybe some ancient times
and things were different, but 

3212
02:35:36,050 --> 02:35:37,650
obviously that's got nothing to 
do with. 

3213
02:35:37,650 --> 02:35:40,850
Now. 
There's that letter Otto sent 

3214
02:35:40,850 --> 02:35:43,370
his brother that we cited 
earlier about how he was worried

3215
02:35:43,370 --> 02:35:45,690
that Damon would become the next
Megawar. 

3216
02:35:46,210 --> 02:35:50,330
I wonder what he and his nephew,
Lord Armand and Allison, 

3217
02:35:50,330 --> 02:35:53,530
discussed like in advance. 
They've been angling for the 

3218
02:35:53,530 --> 02:35:56,460
throne this whole time. 
All the way back from when the 

3219
02:35:56,460 --> 02:35:58,540
first kids were born. 
For when Agon was born, they 

3220
02:35:58,540 --> 02:36:00,940
were like, as soon as they had a
male heir, they're like he 

3221
02:36:00,940 --> 02:36:02,900
should be the next king. 
After the series, they've been 

3222
02:36:02,900 --> 02:36:05,460
pushing for it for 20 plus 
years. 

3223
02:36:06,580 --> 02:36:09,220
What preparations do they make 
behind the scenes? 

3224
02:36:09,300 --> 02:36:12,060
We know a few of them. 
We know some of them come out in

3225
02:36:12,060 --> 02:36:14,100
that council scene and those, 
those mirrors, some of the 

3226
02:36:14,100 --> 02:36:15,820
things that happened in the book
when Allison's like, you did all

3227
02:36:15,820 --> 02:36:17,940
this without me, like what the 
hell those planning happened, 

3228
02:36:18,020 --> 02:36:20,920
right? 
That that planning started way 

3229
02:36:20,920 --> 02:36:23,160
before that. 
Like it started like years 

3230
02:36:23,160 --> 02:36:24,440
before that. 
Some of it anyway. 

3231
02:36:25,600 --> 02:36:28,880
How far in advance did they 
decide like that? 

3232
02:36:29,040 --> 02:36:31,520
If it came to it, they were 
going to full blown usurp. 

3233
02:36:31,560 --> 02:36:35,360
If if Becerris never agreed, 
well we're still going to do it 

3234
02:36:36,240 --> 02:36:39,440
When he dies, whenever that is, 
I don't know that's when it's 

3235
02:36:39,440 --> 02:36:41,440
going to be, but they could. 
They knew he wouldn't live a 

3236
02:36:41,440 --> 02:36:43,600
long time. 
It was pretty that that writing 

3237
02:36:43,600 --> 02:36:46,080
was on the wall before he cut 
his fingers off. 

3238
02:36:47,550 --> 02:36:49,590
But it was really on the writing
on the wall after when he did, 

3239
02:36:49,630 --> 02:36:51,870
because he was already like 
someone partied too hard. 

3240
02:36:51,870 --> 02:36:54,910
It wasn't very healthy, drank a 
lot, gained a lot of weight, 

3241
02:36:54,910 --> 02:36:57,110
wasn't, you know, his face was 
red all the time. 

3242
02:36:57,110 --> 02:37:01,110
Yeah, just an unhealthy guy. 
And again, Nina points out that 

3243
02:37:01,110 --> 02:37:03,510
this is still yes, they did 
this. 

3244
02:37:03,510 --> 02:37:04,950
Yes, it's the same kind of 
maneuvering. 

3245
02:37:04,950 --> 02:37:07,550
But any this isn't Hightower 
specific, necessarily. 

3246
02:37:07,630 --> 02:37:08,990
Pretty much any house would have
done this. 

3247
02:37:09,390 --> 02:37:11,510
There's a few exceptions, but 
that's mostly going to be about 

3248
02:37:11,510 --> 02:37:15,550
the character of the Pete, the 
individuals that happened to be 

3249
02:37:15,550 --> 02:37:18,790
a line at this time. 
Even aside from Hightower, do 

3250
02:37:18,790 --> 02:37:21,430
you think that the other members
of the small council and other 

3251
02:37:21,430 --> 02:37:25,110
Lords nearby or around the realm
didn't have contingency plans? 

3252
02:37:25,110 --> 02:37:28,070
You know, I'm sure there was, 
you know, some plans maybe are 

3253
02:37:28,070 --> 02:37:32,350
too risky to talk about, right? 
If it's heard someone you know, 

3254
02:37:32,590 --> 02:37:35,550
it could go bad. 
But some people were probably 

3255
02:37:35,550 --> 02:37:38,350
had enough confidence in each 
other that they would discuss 

3256
02:37:38,350 --> 02:37:41,790
the contingency plan. 
You know that maybe even some 

3257
02:37:41,790 --> 02:37:43,110
things don't need to be 
discussed. 

3258
02:37:43,110 --> 02:37:45,470
They just like, yes, obviously 
XYZ is happening. 

3259
02:37:45,470 --> 02:37:49,710
You know what I mean? 
Maybe the details of Z1 Part 2, 

3260
02:37:50,030 --> 02:37:53,710
you know, haven't been spoken 
out loud, but Z is happening. 

3261
02:37:53,710 --> 02:37:56,390
Yeah, you know. 
It says just another Westerosi 

3262
02:37:56,390 --> 02:37:59,470
aristocratic family in a world 
which operates on diagnostic 

3263
02:37:59,550 --> 02:38:02,310
ambition. 
Yep and yeah, absolutely. 

3264
02:38:02,990 --> 02:38:08,070
And to be fair, they they're 
more positioned than most houses

3265
02:38:08,070 --> 02:38:10,430
to be able to facilitate some of
these things, which isn't in 

3266
02:38:10,430 --> 02:38:12,710
itself evil. 
It's just they know that they 

3267
02:38:12,710 --> 02:38:20,160
have more means to do this. 
We also wonder as well just how 

3268
02:38:20,160 --> 02:38:22,600
many other houses just reached 
out to the Hightowers and said 

3269
02:38:22,600 --> 02:38:26,480
yo, you can count on. 
If it comes down to it, yeah, we

3270
02:38:26,480 --> 02:38:28,880
don't want a woman on the phone.
We'll we'll support you because 

3271
02:38:28,920 --> 02:38:30,400
you're the Hightowers. 
We don't like those Valerians, 

3272
02:38:30,400 --> 02:38:32,400
We don't like the Valerians. 
We want the faith, we want a 

3273
02:38:32,400 --> 02:38:35,040
man. 
Whatever their reasoning was, 

3274
02:38:35,200 --> 02:38:38,800
whether it's they don't like 
women, whether it's they don't 

3275
02:38:38,800 --> 02:38:42,160
like Valerians, whether they do 
like Hightowers, whether they 

3276
02:38:42,160 --> 02:38:44,080
want their reach house and they 
prefer this. 

3277
02:38:44,350 --> 02:38:48,910
Prestige to be closer to them. 
A lot of reasons, but the high 

3278
02:38:48,910 --> 02:38:51,910
towers would be going around and
like sounding that out like. 

3279
02:38:51,910 --> 02:38:54,790
Hey, you know what? 
If things were to come down, you

3280
02:38:54,790 --> 02:38:57,670
know, what's that you're like? 
What do you think of a queen 

3281
02:38:57,670 --> 02:38:58,390
like? 
What do you think of? 

3282
02:38:58,790 --> 02:39:00,670
What's your opinion of us having
a queen you're like? 

3283
02:39:00,950 --> 02:39:02,350
Oh. 
I hate a queen. 

3284
02:39:02,350 --> 02:39:05,470
You know, like, OK, well, maybe 
we should, oh, maybe we should 

3285
02:39:05,470 --> 02:39:07,790
talk to you a little more than 
because we also don't want a 

3286
02:39:07,790 --> 02:39:09,750
queen. 
And if they're like, I think 

3287
02:39:09,750 --> 02:39:10,830
Queen Rainier would be just 
fine. 

3288
02:39:10,830 --> 02:39:12,980
They were like. 
Next, you know, moving on. 

3289
02:39:12,980 --> 02:39:14,780
OK, write them down in the no 
column. 

3290
02:39:14,780 --> 02:39:17,020
Watch out for this house later, 
you know, and unless there's a 

3291
02:39:17,020 --> 02:39:19,780
change at the top, you know, 
like the son takes over for the 

3292
02:39:19,780 --> 02:39:21,740
father, Maybe they check in 
again. 

3293
02:39:21,740 --> 02:39:24,540
Maybe this new maybe the new 
change of leadership also 

3294
02:39:24,540 --> 02:39:27,140
involves a change of attitude 
about whether they want a king 

3295
02:39:27,140 --> 02:39:29,060
or a queen or whether they 
prefer one or the other. 

3296
02:39:30,620 --> 02:39:33,300
So near those near the end when 
Becerras was sick, they knew 

3297
02:39:33,300 --> 02:39:35,820
their chances were peaking 
because not only was Becerras 

3298
02:39:36,300 --> 02:39:39,100
not long for this world. 
As they saw, they probably see 

3299
02:39:39,100 --> 02:39:41,660
like he's maybe got a few years 
left in him, but they they knew 

3300
02:39:41,660 --> 02:39:43,980
that he wouldn't be around 10 
more years most likely. 

3301
02:39:44,820 --> 02:39:47,340
So they had to prepare for the 
inevitable. 

3302
02:39:48,380 --> 02:39:53,380
And at this time, it was easier 
than it might have been, because

3303
02:39:53,380 --> 02:39:56,820
with him being sick, they're 
given control of the daytoday 

3304
02:39:56,820 --> 02:40:00,540
operations of the Realm show did
a pretty good job of showing how

3305
02:40:00,940 --> 02:40:03,700
back into a corner this put 
Rainier's faction when the high 

3306
02:40:03,700 --> 02:40:06,540
towers were basically. 
Getting to make the Viscera's 

3307
02:40:06,540 --> 02:40:07,980
decisions for him. 
So of course they're going to 

3308
02:40:07,980 --> 02:40:11,020
make decisions that are in their
favor whenever it comes to that.

3309
02:40:13,100 --> 02:40:16,020
This is why so many people 
suspect Viscera's was was 

3310
02:40:16,020 --> 02:40:19,180
murdered, and of course the show
doesn't give us that. 

3311
02:40:19,180 --> 02:40:22,300
But that's not important. 
The the book maybe suggests the 

3312
02:40:22,300 --> 02:40:24,460
possibility. 
I don't think they did, but it's

3313
02:40:24,460 --> 02:40:27,700
definitely possible because man,
the timing is pretty good. 

3314
02:40:29,310 --> 02:40:31,150
Nina doesn't agree with me, so 
this is a little give you a 

3315
02:40:31,150 --> 02:40:32,910
counterpoint here, she says. 
While it may have been somewhat 

3316
02:40:32,910 --> 02:40:34,870
immediately logistically 
convenient that Rainier was 

3317
02:40:34,870 --> 02:40:37,390
pregnant, the Green Faction was 
not in any sort of complete 

3318
02:40:37,390 --> 02:40:40,390
control of power, nor do I think
they gained by killing off the 

3319
02:40:40,390 --> 02:40:42,150
Cirrus. 
So long as the Cirrus remained 

3320
02:40:42,150 --> 02:40:46,990
alive, there was a chance that 
he would change his mind and and

3321
02:40:47,030 --> 02:40:49,310
just name the son instead of his
daughter. 

3322
02:40:49,310 --> 02:40:51,550
Maybe Rainier would do something
to piss him off, like she had 

3323
02:40:51,590 --> 02:40:52,950
done things to piss him off or 
so. 

3324
02:40:52,950 --> 02:40:55,860
Maybe she would change her mind 
so it's again that soft power 

3325
02:40:55,860 --> 02:40:59,060
angle that if all they need is 
the king to change his mind and 

3326
02:40:59,060 --> 02:41:02,900
it avoids so many problems, so 
if they kill him, that chance is

3327
02:41:02,900 --> 02:41:05,380
gone and it almost certainly 
turns to bloodshed and then 

3328
02:41:05,380 --> 02:41:08,300
anything can happen. 
Not to mention, in the meantime,

3329
02:41:08,300 --> 02:41:10,140
they're basically ruling in his 
stead. 

3330
02:41:10,140 --> 02:41:13,140
Like they would love for him to 
stay alive, incapacitated as 

3331
02:41:13,140 --> 02:41:15,460
long as possible for a bunch of 
different reasons. 

3332
02:41:15,460 --> 02:41:17,300
I'm, I'm very much, I mean, OK, 
great. 

3333
02:41:17,420 --> 02:41:19,140
OK, that's good. 
I'm, I'm glad to hear that. 

3334
02:41:19,140 --> 02:41:20,860
I think you guys have a very 
strong point here. 

3335
02:41:20,860 --> 02:41:22,020
Now they may have seen it 
differently. 

3336
02:41:22,020 --> 02:41:23,620
They may have thought look this 
is our best chance. 

3337
02:41:23,620 --> 02:41:26,320
Yes, it's it might be better if 
we weighed, but they've been 

3338
02:41:26,320 --> 02:41:28,680
trying to convince this guy for 
20 years and he still says no, 

3339
02:41:28,680 --> 02:41:30,880
Like, maybe they just had given 
up on him changing his mind. 

3340
02:41:31,320 --> 02:41:32,520
So there's that possibility as 
well. 

3341
02:41:32,520 --> 02:41:33,960
But I still agree, I don't think
he was. 

3342
02:41:34,200 --> 02:41:38,320
The timing was quite 
interesting, though, that the 

3343
02:41:38,320 --> 02:41:39,920
Rainier is like at her most laid
up. 

3344
02:41:39,920 --> 02:41:42,760
She's most at her least able to 
react. 

3345
02:41:43,160 --> 02:41:45,040
But of course, Rainier is not 
the one they need to worry 

3346
02:41:45,040 --> 02:41:46,400
about. 
It's Damon, you know, And some 

3347
02:41:46,400 --> 02:41:48,320
of these other Rainier's orders 
are important, but she wasn't 

3348
02:41:48,320 --> 02:41:49,840
going to hop on a dragon and 
burn them anyway. 

3349
02:41:49,840 --> 02:41:51,840
That wasn't really her, her 
thing. 

3350
02:41:51,920 --> 02:41:53,960
She's not really a warrior. 
Yeah. 

3351
02:41:53,960 --> 02:41:56,120
So there's not the the fact that
she's laid up may not be that 

3352
02:41:56,120 --> 02:41:57,800
big a deal. 
Like, well, payment's not laid 

3353
02:41:57,800 --> 02:41:59,480
up. 
You know, like he could hop on 

3354
02:41:59,520 --> 02:42:01,320
crack season, get the business 
room right away. 

3355
02:42:01,720 --> 02:42:03,440
So they they wouldn't have 
thought it was necessarily a 

3356
02:42:03,440 --> 02:42:05,240
window where he was out of 
action. 

3357
02:42:05,240 --> 02:42:07,240
And he's kind of the one they 
really worried about, Yes. 

3358
02:42:07,600 --> 02:42:10,960
There are some arguments that 
the high towers poisoned for 

3359
02:42:10,960 --> 02:42:13,400
serious like. 
I can see some reasons why they 

3360
02:42:13,400 --> 02:42:16,800
might have done it right. 
But I could see some reasons why

3361
02:42:16,800 --> 02:42:20,320
Damon might have done it. 
But I don't think anyone really 

3362
02:42:20,320 --> 02:42:22,400
believes or expects that because
there's so many reasons why he 

3363
02:42:22,400 --> 02:42:24,040
wouldn't have done it. 
And that's kind of how I feel 

3364
02:42:24,040 --> 02:42:26,280
about the high towers. 
There are some reasons, but I 

3365
02:42:26,280 --> 02:42:28,240
think the reasons against 
outweighs cool. 

3366
02:42:28,600 --> 02:42:30,800
So whether or not they helped 
him along or not, and I think 

3367
02:42:30,880 --> 02:42:32,520
they'll make great points, I'm 
going to, I'm going to say head 

3368
02:42:32,520 --> 02:42:33,640
cannon. 
He didn't or they didn't. 

3369
02:42:33,960 --> 02:42:35,240
They were definitely ready for 
it though. 

3370
02:42:35,440 --> 02:42:37,360
They knew that he was, he was 
going to die. 

3371
02:42:37,360 --> 02:42:39,600
They were prepared for the 
eventuality like when he dies 

3372
02:42:40,080 --> 02:42:44,880
XYZ all kick off. 
The first of them being the 

3373
02:42:44,880 --> 02:42:47,960
servant that found him dead 
immediately went to Allison and 

3374
02:42:47,960 --> 02:42:51,200
told her and she almost 
certainly went and told Otto 

3375
02:42:51,200 --> 02:42:54,800
next and they did their enacted 
their plan. 

3376
02:42:55,720 --> 02:42:57,480
Now remember that book book 
version. 

3377
02:42:57,480 --> 02:43:00,400
There's none of this Allison 
being left out of the advanced 

3378
02:43:00,400 --> 02:43:02,280
planning stuff. 
So we can we can discard that 

3379
02:43:02,280 --> 02:43:03,960
notion. 
It just looks like they were 

3380
02:43:03,960 --> 02:43:05,880
ready to go along with it. 
Most of them like Otto had 

3381
02:43:05,880 --> 02:43:07,680
already suborn of them. 
Allison probably as well had 

3382
02:43:07,680 --> 02:43:09,640
already won them over. 
And let's not forget, Lord 

3383
02:43:09,640 --> 02:43:13,510
Commander Kristen Cole had had 
that role for 15 years at this 

3384
02:43:13,510 --> 02:43:15,830
point, whereas in the show he 
wasn't Lord Commander at all 

3385
02:43:16,230 --> 02:43:18,230
until Harold Weschling walked 
out. 

3386
02:43:18,350 --> 02:43:21,830
So they had more hold over the 
court. 

3387
02:43:21,830 --> 02:43:24,990
At this point, There wasn't, 
remember that how Allison got 

3388
02:43:24,990 --> 02:43:26,950
what she wanted a lot of times 
because Kristen Cole is standing

3389
02:43:26,950 --> 02:43:30,510
behind her and threatened being 
like you don't give her what she

3390
02:43:30,510 --> 02:43:31,390
wants. 
You got to be with me. 

3391
02:43:31,710 --> 02:43:35,790
That wasn't the dynamic in the 
show as much because of Harold 

3392
02:43:35,790 --> 02:43:37,910
Weschling being a counterpoint. 
It was the dynamic. 

3393
02:43:37,910 --> 02:43:39,670
But Harold was there to kind of 
balance that out. 

3394
02:43:40,220 --> 02:43:41,220
In the book, there's none of 
that. 

3395
02:43:41,220 --> 02:43:43,380
There's no one to balance out 
Kristen Cole at court nearly as 

3396
02:43:43,380 --> 02:43:46,140
much on the day-to-day. 
There would be times where 

3397
02:43:46,140 --> 02:43:49,940
Damon's at court or whatever and
other people maybe, But she had 

3398
02:43:49,940 --> 02:43:55,220
a lot more weight behind her for
longer and she was older and 

3399
02:43:55,220 --> 02:43:57,100
wiser. 
So this is pretty important. 

3400
02:43:57,820 --> 02:44:00,420
Other than Beesbury, the others 
were just kind of like, Yep, 

3401
02:44:00,980 --> 02:44:03,540
let's go along with it. 
Orwell claims he was against it,

3402
02:44:03,540 --> 02:44:05,580
but that's most likely post 
facto. 

3403
02:44:06,020 --> 02:44:07,780
He's like, after the fact. 
He's like, yeah, I tried to 

3404
02:44:07,780 --> 02:44:09,370
stop. 
So what could I do? 

3405
02:44:09,730 --> 02:44:12,010
Like, yeah, did you or while did
you. 

3406
02:44:13,250 --> 02:44:15,610
So it seems like they mostly 
were ready to go along. 

3407
02:44:15,610 --> 02:44:19,530
Otto and Allison had discussed 
this in advance, probably with 

3408
02:44:19,530 --> 02:44:22,010
Laris as well. 
And Laris is the one who said, 

3409
02:44:22,010 --> 02:44:25,130
let's take a blood oath to make 
sure we all are together and do 

3410
02:44:25,130 --> 02:44:28,090
all that business. 
What other high towers were 

3411
02:44:28,090 --> 02:44:29,210
included? 
There's a lot of ways we can 

3412
02:44:29,210 --> 02:44:31,690
look at this and look at the 
preparations, but I'm curious, 

3413
02:44:31,690 --> 02:44:34,410
like, Dwayne out his other sons.
Were they in? 

3414
02:44:34,410 --> 02:44:38,410
On where What about Brendan and 
Hobart and Ormond's children? 

3415
02:44:38,410 --> 02:44:40,610
How many of them knew this was 
the plan? 

3416
02:44:41,530 --> 02:44:45,450
Dwayne was named almost 
immediately to be second in 

3417
02:44:45,450 --> 02:44:48,610
command of the Gold Cloaks, but 
that doesn't mean he knew 

3418
02:44:48,850 --> 02:44:51,010
anything ahead of time. 
That just means he they had a 

3419
02:44:51,010 --> 02:44:53,650
plan for him. 
Doesn't mean he was included in 

3420
02:44:53,650 --> 02:44:56,370
the scheming. 
Hang on the second wasn't even 

3421
02:44:56,370 --> 02:44:57,850
included in the scheming until 
the last minute. 

3422
02:44:57,850 --> 02:45:00,530
They're like, we'll come up the 
Hey dude, hey dude, time for you

3423
02:45:00,530 --> 02:45:01,490
to be king. 
He's like, what? 

3424
02:45:02,390 --> 02:45:03,990
What kind of a brother steals 
his sister's? 

3425
02:45:04,590 --> 02:45:11,910
I was like, you, you know, Amond
wasn't included. 

3426
02:45:11,910 --> 02:45:13,150
Probably. 
Or he may, but he may have 

3427
02:45:13,150 --> 02:45:14,470
wondered. 
Amon may have figured it out or 

3428
02:45:14,470 --> 02:45:15,830
figured something out because he
asked. 

3429
02:45:15,830 --> 02:45:19,510
He's like, well, who do we kneel
to, Rainera or my brother? 

3430
02:45:19,510 --> 02:45:21,950
Of course, he put it more 
rudely, in a word I choose not 

3431
02:45:21,950 --> 02:45:24,270
to use on the show. 
Yeah, still. 

3432
02:45:24,270 --> 02:45:27,810
So the the different children 
were were not in on it, but they

3433
02:45:27,810 --> 02:45:31,890
were at least Eamon's suspected 
something, you know and the 

3434
02:45:31,890 --> 02:45:33,010
writing was on the wall for a 
lot of. 

3435
02:45:33,010 --> 02:45:35,570
It's not like he figured out 
something that was really well 

3436
02:45:35,570 --> 02:45:41,130
hidden. 
I expected there was plans were 

3437
02:45:41,130 --> 02:45:44,370
made without explanation per se.
Does that make sense? 

3438
02:45:44,450 --> 02:45:47,370
I imagine Otto was sending 
messages back to her Old Town 

3439
02:45:47,370 --> 02:45:50,570
saying like. 
They make sure there's X number 

3440
02:45:50,570 --> 02:45:52,410
of swords set aside in the 
Armory. 

3441
02:45:52,410 --> 02:45:55,970
Make sure there's X number of 
horses in the stable and this 

3442
02:45:55,970 --> 02:45:57,370
grain and I. 
Yeah. 

3443
02:45:57,890 --> 02:46:00,650
And and probably the people 
getting those orders, at least 

3444
02:46:00,650 --> 02:46:04,730
some of them were like, I see 
what's happening here which then

3445
02:46:04,730 --> 02:46:07,650
they can start to make their own
plans and contingencies are war 

3446
02:46:07,650 --> 02:46:08,530
preparations. 
Yeah. 

3447
02:46:08,530 --> 02:46:11,050
This is this is they are making 
plans for war like that. 

3448
02:46:11,050 --> 02:46:13,610
That's what that looks like. 
Some people would do it. 

3449
02:46:13,930 --> 02:46:17,520
It's a great point. 
It also shows just more to what 

3450
02:46:17,520 --> 02:46:19,880
you're saying. 
It seems like they prepared very

3451
02:46:19,880 --> 02:46:24,040
well for the moment of Asseris's
death, but they did a terrible 

3452
02:46:24,040 --> 02:46:26,440
job of preparing the rest of 
their family for it, like Aegon 

3453
02:46:27,080 --> 02:46:29,960
preparing him to be a king. 
They did a horrible job of that.

3454
02:46:29,960 --> 02:46:31,640
That was true. 
We talked about that a lot on 

3455
02:46:31,640 --> 02:46:33,080
the show. 
Show coverage. 

3456
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:37,000
Same goes here. 
They did not prepare this dude 

3457
02:46:37,000 --> 02:46:40,240
to be a king. 
Although once again, not unique 

3458
02:46:40,240 --> 02:46:42,200
to the high towers, not unique 
to the very. 

3459
02:46:42,240 --> 02:46:44,480
Few kings were probably prepared
to be a king, Yeah. 

3460
02:46:44,600 --> 02:46:46,200
I mean, yeah, Becerris did not 
prepare. 

3461
02:46:46,280 --> 02:46:49,080
Serious and still wasn't. 
He wasn't preparing air for like

3462
02:46:49,120 --> 02:46:51,280
on and Becerris wasn't prepared 
to be king either. 

3463
02:46:51,280 --> 02:46:54,240
They didn't really do that for. 
Yeah, like, yeah, it's a 

3464
02:46:54,240 --> 02:46:56,400
recurring theme. 
Again, High towers, not 

3465
02:46:56,400 --> 02:46:59,480
particularly unique in that 
regard, but it is fair to say 

3466
02:46:59,480 --> 02:47:01,160
the high towers can't help 
themselves. 

3467
02:47:01,160 --> 02:47:02,400
They're like a lot of these 
houses. 

3468
02:47:02,400 --> 02:47:05,000
They they are not this thing 
saying that they're not that 

3469
02:47:05,000 --> 02:47:08,030
different. 
Well, but they are different in 

3470
02:47:08,030 --> 02:47:12,270
their means, their ability to 
force these issues, their 

3471
02:47:12,270 --> 02:47:18,150
ability to take a small crack 
and widen it to a size large 

3472
02:47:18,150 --> 02:47:19,830
enough that they can squeeze 
through themselves. 

3473
02:47:20,150 --> 02:47:22,270
Not everyone can do that. 
You need a lot of wealth and 

3474
02:47:22,270 --> 02:47:23,270
power to do some of these 
things. 

3475
02:47:23,310 --> 02:47:24,950
Some houses want to do it, but 
they can't. 

3476
02:47:25,070 --> 02:47:31,630
So yeah, you know, they just 
have to have to be involved. 

3477
02:47:31,830 --> 02:47:33,270
Seems like they can't stay out 
of it. 

3478
02:47:33,310 --> 02:47:40,700
They have to be involved in the 
fiddle, the faith, trade, war, 

3479
02:47:41,380 --> 02:47:46,060
exploration, even knowledge and 
yeah, royal power and Dragons. 

3480
02:47:46,060 --> 02:47:47,540
They can't be excluded from 
that. 

3481
02:47:48,060 --> 02:47:53,340
Sean, you had another example 
from from years ago, 500 years 

3482
02:47:53,340 --> 02:47:56,660
ago or something like that. 
Yeah, approximately 500 years 

3483
02:47:56,660 --> 02:48:00,460
ago at the Wall there was a 
Runsell Hightower who was Lord 

3484
02:48:00,460 --> 02:48:03,070
Commander. 
And he was angling to get his 

3485
02:48:03,070 --> 02:48:06,270
son to take over for him, rather
than the standard election that 

3486
02:48:06,390 --> 02:48:09,750
the Night Watch holds, Which 
very few details on this. 

3487
02:48:09,790 --> 02:48:13,590
But he didn't succeed. 
I don't know if he was executed 

3488
02:48:13,590 --> 02:48:15,830
or ousted, or if they just 
didn't let his son take over. 

3489
02:48:15,830 --> 02:48:18,150
I don't know the details, but 
it's just another example of an 

3490
02:48:18,150 --> 02:48:23,030
ambitious Hightower angling for 
power that is not really his to 

3491
02:48:23,030 --> 02:48:24,470
get. 
Yeah, like they're more 

3492
02:48:24,470 --> 02:48:26,750
comfortable with nepotism. 
I think the Hightower has been 

3493
02:48:26,750 --> 02:48:29,350
so much of it in their family, 
they may not realize how 

3494
02:48:30,150 --> 02:48:32,310
egregious that is, how bad it 
looks. 

3495
02:48:32,870 --> 02:48:35,310
So that is feels like kind of a 
Hightower thing to do. 

3496
02:48:35,350 --> 02:48:41,470
Like most other houses would not
try to name their son as the 

3497
02:48:41,470 --> 02:48:43,350
next Lord Commander of the 
Knights watch. 

3498
02:48:43,630 --> 02:48:45,430
I assume his son was already in 
the Knights watch. 

3499
02:48:45,430 --> 02:48:46,790
Would be even weirder if he was 
like. 

3500
02:48:49,790 --> 02:48:52,830
It's possible he even did it and
and you know a technically 

3501
02:48:52,830 --> 02:48:55,830
legitimate way, right? 
He might have just like had his 

3502
02:48:55,830 --> 02:48:58,790
son enter the election and 
pumped it up and maybe even try 

3503
02:48:58,790 --> 02:49:00,880
to. 
The worst that people to go to, 

3504
02:49:01,040 --> 02:49:05,640
like even if he was doing it in 
a way that ostensibly was 

3505
02:49:05,640 --> 02:49:08,560
technically okay, it's still 
didn't go. 

3506
02:49:08,720 --> 02:49:10,640
It didn't get looked at very 
kindly like. 

3507
02:49:11,160 --> 02:49:13,880
And also once again like maybe 
if he had been a great Lord 

3508
02:49:13,880 --> 02:49:16,960
Commander and his son was a 
great leader on the watch, then 

3509
02:49:16,960 --> 02:49:18,120
it might have just happened 
anyway. 

3510
02:49:18,120 --> 02:49:20,680
But if he was kind of a mediocre
Lord Commander and his son 

3511
02:49:20,680 --> 02:49:22,560
wasn't even on the watch. 
Yeah. 

3512
02:49:23,440 --> 02:49:25,720
He was saying like, he was like,
yeah, so many details. 

3513
02:49:25,800 --> 02:49:28,160
We don't know, but it does spit 
the mold, you know? 

3514
02:49:29,810 --> 02:49:32,250
All right, folks, the simplest 
way I can put it. 

3515
02:49:32,250 --> 02:49:34,650
It seems like things went well 
for the high towers when they 

3516
02:49:34,650 --> 02:49:37,650
stayed out of House Targaryen's 
business, and poorly when they 

3517
02:49:37,650 --> 02:49:40,130
did. 
It's definitely simplifying, but

3518
02:49:40,130 --> 02:49:43,330
that seems to be a pattern. 
Aiming for royal power, aiming 

3519
02:49:43,330 --> 02:49:48,010
for the supreme executive power 
has not gone well for them, but 

3520
02:49:48,010 --> 02:49:50,330
there's so many of them. 
So it's like it's hard for them 

3521
02:49:50,330 --> 02:49:51,810
to imagine. 
Hard to imagine them going 

3522
02:49:51,810 --> 02:49:53,370
completely extinct or something 
like that. 

3523
02:49:53,370 --> 02:49:56,730
I mean, we'll see, but there's a
lot of room for future stories 

3524
02:49:57,410 --> 02:50:02,550
in The Song of Fire for High 
Towers at Old Town about the 

3525
02:50:02,550 --> 02:50:06,270
high towers, or in the high 
tower at the Citadel in a number

3526
02:50:06,270 --> 02:50:07,510
of different timelines in the 
future. 

3527
02:50:07,510 --> 02:50:09,710
It's extremely fertile ground 
because of the combination of 

3528
02:50:09,710 --> 02:50:13,750
population points, of interest, 
already named supernatural 

3529
02:50:13,750 --> 02:50:16,150
elements. 
Just so many things that could 

3530
02:50:16,150 --> 02:50:19,150
be in these books. 
I mean books at the Citadel, not

3531
02:50:19,190 --> 02:50:22,830
just George R Martin's books, 
but looking ahead to future 

3532
02:50:22,830 --> 02:50:25,310
productions and other books and 
things like that that will be 

3533
02:50:25,790 --> 02:50:29,680
made available to us. 
There's so much more history 

3534
02:50:30,440 --> 02:50:32,240
than the other cities like White
Harbor. 

3535
02:50:32,240 --> 02:50:34,840
Just I want to know more about 
White Harbor's founding. 

3536
02:50:34,840 --> 02:50:37,080
It sounds super interesting and 
creepy, but it just isn't 

3537
02:50:37,080 --> 02:50:40,040
anywhere near as old as old. 
Town and has old tennis, has so 

3538
02:50:40,040 --> 02:50:43,840
much more history and goes all 
the way back thousands of years 

3539
02:50:43,840 --> 02:50:46,280
to perhaps to the time of the 
long night and probably before 

3540
02:50:46,280 --> 02:50:47,520
that. 
I mean, it's always been a very 

3541
02:50:47,520 --> 02:50:51,040
beneficial geographic area for a
port to exist, so part of why 

3542
02:50:51,040 --> 02:50:54,600
it's been such a booming area 
for so long. 

3543
02:50:55,780 --> 02:50:58,660
So despite the prominence of the
Under the Dragons era, there's 

3544
02:50:58,660 --> 02:51:00,140
just so much more potential 
here. 

3545
02:51:01,340 --> 02:51:03,540
I think in the very long run 
we're going to learn even more 

3546
02:51:03,540 --> 02:51:05,700
about what happened in this era 
and elsewhere. 

3547
02:51:05,700 --> 02:51:07,700
We're going to become more 
familiar with it because 

3548
02:51:07,700 --> 02:51:09,220
there'll be more stories told in
it. 

3549
02:51:09,220 --> 02:51:11,900
It's a place with a lot of 
unknown past and future. 

3550
02:51:12,180 --> 02:51:15,220
I mean to recap a few of the 
things that we didn't need that 

3551
02:51:15,220 --> 02:51:18,180
we barely touched on. 
House, high towers, Naval 

3552
02:51:18,180 --> 02:51:20,950
adventures, hardly any of that. 
Autos. 

3553
02:51:20,950 --> 02:51:22,910
Spy games. 
We inferred a few things 

3554
02:51:22,910 --> 02:51:25,350
suggested possibilities but 
there's a lot more that could be

3555
02:51:25,350 --> 02:51:27,310
said on that Allison spy games 
too. 

3556
02:51:27,750 --> 02:51:29,310
Less of that in the show 
probably. 

3557
02:51:29,310 --> 02:51:31,910
But we don't. 
We're not really. 

3558
02:51:31,910 --> 02:51:32,870
We're not talking about that 
here. 

3559
02:51:32,870 --> 02:51:35,950
We care about the books here and
there's plenty of that for her 

3560
02:51:35,950 --> 02:51:37,870
that we could get into. 
And some of that will come up 

3561
02:51:37,870 --> 02:51:41,670
when we cover Fire and Blood. 
The high Towers have a Valerian 

3562
02:51:41,670 --> 02:51:44,070
Steel blade Vigilance that I 
didn't mention until now. 

3563
02:51:44,070 --> 02:51:46,670
I mean what the hell. 
Like that's another interesting 

3564
02:51:46,670 --> 02:51:48,520
point. 
So yeah, there's just so much 

3565
02:51:48,520 --> 02:51:50,920
going on there, let alone how 
little we know about the actual 

3566
02:51:50,920 --> 02:51:53,840
Hightower itself. 
I mean fertile. 

3567
02:51:53,880 --> 02:51:58,160
Yeah, that oily black base. 
That the idea that it seems like

3568
02:51:58,160 --> 02:51:59,800
even the origins of Hightower 
are unknown. 

3569
02:51:59,800 --> 02:52:02,560
It's just or Old Town. 
There's just been there as long 

3570
02:52:02,560 --> 02:52:04,480
as anyone remember. 
There's no, there's not even 

3571
02:52:04,480 --> 02:52:06,120
like a myth to where it came 
from, right? 

3572
02:52:06,120 --> 02:52:09,120
Like maybe like a hint of a myth
or something, but it feels like 

3573
02:52:09,120 --> 02:52:11,320
a common thing that I feel at 
the end of an episode. 

3574
02:52:11,320 --> 02:52:15,120
Here I'm like we covered so much
and didn't cover so much. 

3575
02:52:15,910 --> 02:52:19,870
Yeah, and that's another thing 
that I I was taking away from 

3576
02:52:19,870 --> 02:52:21,310
this episode. 
I'm trying to decide if it's 

3577
02:52:21,310 --> 02:52:24,390
like, I don't know, recency 
bias, so you know, just what 

3578
02:52:24,390 --> 02:52:25,950
we're covering right now. 
But I, I, I. 

3579
02:52:25,950 --> 02:52:29,550
One of my biggest takeaways from
this for me, if I'm wrong, is 

3580
02:52:29,550 --> 02:52:36,670
that the High towers maybe were 
the most important House of 

3581
02:52:36,670 --> 02:52:39,270
Westeros before the Targaryens 
came. 

3582
02:52:39,800 --> 02:52:42,680
It's like, if not the most 
important top three or four, 

3583
02:52:42,840 --> 02:52:44,360
right? 
Yes, I agree with that. 

3584
02:52:44,520 --> 02:52:46,800
Yeah, it's there's a very to be 
made for that. 

3585
02:52:47,440 --> 02:52:49,720
And even once the Targaryens 
came, you know, depending on 

3586
02:52:49,720 --> 02:52:53,160
exactly what time period you're 
talking about, still still top 

3587
02:52:53,160 --> 02:52:56,800
three or four ish. 
And in this current song of Ice 

3588
02:52:56,800 --> 02:53:00,640
and Fire, it's it. 
The amount that they're covered 

3589
02:53:00,640 --> 02:53:04,320
or mentioned makes me feel like 
they're not even a top ten, but 

3590
02:53:04,520 --> 02:53:08,560
but I just just from what we've 
gone over here I think. 

3591
02:53:09,030 --> 02:53:13,110
No, the high towers probably 
ended the the main series time 

3592
02:53:13,110 --> 02:53:15,470
period are still probably more 
important to house totally. 

3593
02:53:15,830 --> 02:53:18,030
We're just following house 
totally more because of the 

3594
02:53:18,030 --> 02:53:20,790
relation to Ned and Caitlin and 
all that stuff. 

3595
02:53:20,790 --> 02:53:27,750
But when it posture I feel like 
is a petty Lord compared to the 

3596
02:53:27,870 --> 02:53:29,870
the Lord of Old Town. 
You know what I mean? 

3597
02:53:29,910 --> 02:53:32,270
Like the guy who. 
Hasn't descended to the High 

3598
02:53:32,310 --> 02:53:35,070
Tower in 10 years, yeah. 
Yeah, so. 

3599
02:53:36,300 --> 02:53:39,620
I don't know, given that it 
makes you feel like there's got 

3600
02:53:39,620 --> 02:53:42,700
to be more in store. 
This this house has been so 

3601
02:53:42,700 --> 02:53:46,100
powerful for so long and really 
is more powerful than comes 

3602
02:53:46,100 --> 02:53:50,140
across and in the main series 
it's probably going to play out 

3603
02:53:50,140 --> 02:53:51,900
more. 
The fact that as he's written a 

3604
02:53:51,900 --> 02:53:54,780
main series, George also wrote 
this Fire and Blood, these other

3605
02:53:54,780 --> 02:53:57,740
works that have pumped up high 
towers more and more and more. 

3606
02:53:57,740 --> 02:54:01,140
It I feel like that's some 
amount of study at the stage for

3607
02:54:01,140 --> 02:54:02,260
how much more they're going to 
come into. 

3608
02:54:02,420 --> 02:54:04,460
I agree with you and I'm really 
looking forward to hopefully 

3609
02:54:04,460 --> 02:54:07,550
getting as the high towers 
become prominent as long as I 

3610
02:54:07,590 --> 02:54:09,030
inspire. 
We talk about how there's the 

3611
02:54:09,030 --> 02:54:11,470
stage is set for stuff to happen
at Citadel with you're on with 

3612
02:54:11,470 --> 02:54:13,510
this Old Town in general 
etcetera. 

3613
02:54:15,030 --> 02:54:18,910
That could with the way George 
writes and describes these 

3614
02:54:18,910 --> 02:54:22,910
events that could he could have 
reason to refer to events in the

3615
02:54:22,910 --> 02:54:25,950
past so connect the dots or to 
say this last time this happened

3616
02:54:25,950 --> 02:54:27,070
at the high tower with blah blah
blah. 

3617
02:54:27,070 --> 02:54:28,790
You know, that's the kind of 
thing how a lot of these 

3618
02:54:28,790 --> 02:54:31,910
anecdotes come to us and casual 
conversation between characters 

3619
02:54:31,910 --> 02:54:34,140
or something. 
Someone points something out, 

3620
02:54:34,220 --> 02:54:35,900
someone learn it points 
something out in the 

3621
02:54:35,900 --> 02:54:38,700
conversation, that we take that 
to heart and use that as a data 

3622
02:54:38,700 --> 02:54:40,020
point. 
I'm. 

3623
02:54:40,100 --> 02:54:43,060
I feel like, well, that's going 
to be fertile ground for us as 

3624
02:54:43,740 --> 02:54:48,260
fans and as podcasters to learn 
more for to fill out some of 

3625
02:54:48,260 --> 02:54:49,460
this information. 
Yeah, I can't wait. 

3626
02:54:49,660 --> 02:54:53,140
It's very exciting. 
Trivia answer, trivia answer. 

3627
02:54:53,140 --> 02:54:56,660
The question was, what are the I
gave you six of the seven titles

3628
02:54:56,660 --> 02:55:00,980
of The Lord of the High Tower. 
The missing one. 

3629
02:55:02,390 --> 02:55:06,070
I was going to guess at first 
Warden of the South, but I 

3630
02:55:06,070 --> 02:55:08,510
realized that's probably the 
reach, that's probably the 

3631
02:55:08,510 --> 02:55:11,670
Tyrell. 
So it sends me back to like me 

3632
02:55:11,670 --> 02:55:12,750
and Barry, unsure. 
What is it? 

3633
02:55:12,990 --> 02:55:16,510
Beacon of the South. 
Beacon of the South. 

3634
02:55:16,510 --> 02:55:18,230
Kind of random, but it is, it's 
like a light you know, 

3635
02:55:18,230 --> 02:55:19,790
lighthouse thing. 
Yeah, I. 

3636
02:55:20,510 --> 02:55:21,550
Was Warden of the South. 
What's? 

3637
02:55:21,710 --> 02:55:26,990
That say that Lady Bay was the 
first one to get that other 

3638
02:55:26,990 --> 02:55:28,630
people guessed that Keeper of 
the Faith. 

3639
02:55:30,780 --> 02:55:32,980
Oh, it's a good guess too. 
Yeah, Peak end of the South. 

3640
02:55:33,340 --> 02:55:37,820
We like the way the High Tower, 
Yeah does It is fitting. 

3641
02:55:38,100 --> 02:55:41,380
So yeah, next week is Craster. 
Folks, send your thoughts on 

3642
02:55:41,380 --> 02:55:43,860
Craster questions if you have 
any things you want to cover. 

3643
02:55:43,860 --> 02:55:47,180
It's a very wide open topic. 
So it's a it's a place for us to

3644
02:55:47,180 --> 02:55:50,180
use a lot of imagination and do 
quite a bit of theorizing, but 

3645
02:55:50,180 --> 02:55:52,900
we'll start with rooting 
ourselves what we know as always

3646
02:55:52,900 --> 02:55:56,750
and work from there. 
If you are wanting to listen to 

3647
02:55:56,750 --> 02:55:58,910
another episode of History of 
Westeros after this one because 

3648
02:55:58,910 --> 02:56:03,350
you're so dialed in right now, 
you like to stay in Westeros for

3649
02:56:03,350 --> 02:56:06,470
a little while longer, but you 
don't know where to go, I 

3650
02:56:06,470 --> 02:56:10,270
recommend the new old Tower of 
Joy Sun Chaser episode, The 

3651
02:56:10,270 --> 02:56:13,430
Shivers and the Winter Fever 
episode. 

3652
02:56:13,430 --> 02:56:14,590
We covered those two things 
together. 

3653
02:56:14,590 --> 02:56:16,630
The Winter Fever was right after
the dance, and of course The 

3654
02:56:16,630 --> 02:56:21,430
Shivers was 70 years before it. 
And of course, our Dance of the 

3655
02:56:21,430 --> 02:56:23,150
Dragons episode with Radio 
Westeros. 

3656
02:56:23,590 --> 02:56:27,090
Those are scripted and we have 
done five of them so far out of 

3657
02:56:27,090 --> 02:56:31,170
planned 7:00, so that might be 
right up your alley as well. 

3658
02:56:31,170 --> 02:56:33,650
Or just pick any other episode 
from our catalog. 

3659
02:56:34,610 --> 02:56:36,330
I'm sure you'll have a good time
with it, especially if you 

3660
02:56:36,330 --> 02:56:39,240
haven't heard it before, but 
even if you have, thanks 

3661
02:56:39,240 --> 02:56:42,120
everyone for coming. 
Thanks to anyone who supports us

3662
02:56:42,120 --> 02:56:45,920
on Patreon or the Spotify 
subscriber or send donations 

3663
02:56:45,960 --> 02:56:49,120
through our website which is. 
An option as well if I mentioned

3664
02:56:49,120 --> 02:56:52,200
that before, but should throw 
that out there as well. 

3665
02:56:52,200 --> 02:56:56,320
Thanks to Nina for her great 
notes and advice helping me talk

3666
02:56:56,320 --> 02:57:00,720
through some of these points. 
Thanks to Joey, Jesse, and Brand

3667
02:57:01,000 --> 02:57:04,320
for our music and intro. 
Thanks to Michael Clarfeld as 

3668
02:57:04,320 --> 02:57:07,920
well for the maps and our 
original video intro, and to our

3669
02:57:08,000 --> 02:57:14,400
engineer for sound engineering. 
As a engineer would be engineers

3670
02:57:14,400 --> 02:57:20,920
got a engineer. 
Also, our next patron hangout is

3671
02:57:20,920 --> 02:57:23,200
at the 27th at 9:00 PM. 
If you're hearing this later, 

3672
02:57:25,240 --> 02:57:29,000
join our Discord or our Facebook
group or our patron and you can 

3673
02:57:29,120 --> 02:57:31,640
find out in advance when the 
next event will be. 

3674
02:57:32,120 --> 02:57:34,480
Keep you all informed and you 
know what to do. 

3675
02:57:34,480 --> 02:57:38,120
Until next time, boats, Bella 
rereads.