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By now, you're well aware that 
there are multiple sources on 

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the dance of the dragons and the
era that produced it one of 

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those sources really stands out,
despite his lack of height. 

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And that's mushroom. 
His contributions are the, to 

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the historical record. 
Are particularly entertaining 

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00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,400
and dramatic, because he had a 
flair for humor paired with 

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unusually intimate access to the
private. 

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00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,300
Business of House Targaryen and 
those closest to them like 

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00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:36,900
house, Hightower how strong, and
how solarian, he's a source on 

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what happened between rhaenyra 
and Sir, Kristen, he reported on

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00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,100
a lot of the drama between the 
blacks and greens prior to the 

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war. 
This is the person that coined 

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the nicknames broken bones, the 
butcher's ball, and the queen 

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00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:52,200
Who Never Was His versions of 
the stories have to date, been a

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major part of house, the dragon.
And I'm sure the show Runners 

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and Riders love to incorporate 
his version of events when 

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possible, because is they're 
often the most Painting, but 

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they're not always the most 
accurate, but that's part of 

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what we're here to talk about 
today. 

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We also have a guest who will 
help us pick that apart, one who

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has a lot of real world, 
understanding and expertise on 

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real-world sources, particularly
from time periods that Westeros 

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is the most similar to. 
This is certainly a particular 

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importance because mushroom 
frequently, competes with other 

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sources differing substantially 
at times, which heightens 

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mystery and debate. 
Giving supplementary takes at 

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other times, which helps us form
a larger more complete version 

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of events. 
And of course, there are times 

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were mushroom isn't agreement 
with other sources, which helps 

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00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,800
us gain certainty. 
As well, we must consider that 

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though, mushroom. 
And other sources are cited 

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often, there are times when no 
sources are cited. 

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This is sometimes because they 
all agree and it would be 

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repetitive to point that out 
every single time. 

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This would also happen. 
There's only one source because 

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that also would be repetitive to
cite every single time. 

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We know where mushroom was most 
of the time. 

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However, so for example when we 
hear about doings of rhaenyra 

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and Damon on Dragonstone just 
after the break out of the 

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dance, we can be fairly certain 
it's coming from. 

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Because he was the only source 
to have been witness or 

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potential witness to what 
transpired there. 

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But that doesn't mean he's 
telling the truth with all these

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layers and levels to consider. 
No wonder we brought in a heavy 

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hitter of a guest. 
However, in addition to helping 

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us sift through all this, she's 
going to throw us a Twist. 

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The idea that maybe he didn't 
exist at all. 

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That mushroom might be a 
pseudonym, all that, and more on

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this episode of history of 
Westeros. 

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Hello and welcome everybody, 
indeed. 

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We have our excellent returning 
guest dr. 

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Covino. 
Mood and Finn welcome. 

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00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,200
Thank you for having me. 
I'm glad to be back. 

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Yeah, right on. 
Yeah, we're gonna have a great 

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discussion today. 
You got a huge round of applause

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from folks, for the last time 
you were on and you've been 

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00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,500
around the Song of Ice and Fire 
podcast circuit a bit. 

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Want you to speak to that for a 
second. 

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Yeah, I was on learned hands 
after the very end of House of 

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the dragon and we had a great 
discussion. 

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About adaptation about 
historical sources. 

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Some of the stuff that I'm going
to talk about today is related 

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to things that I talked about on
that particular episode, but 

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it's shouldn't there shouldn't 
be too much overlap. 

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There's going to be one or two 
things, but shouldn't be too 

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much. 
Cool. 

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What is your day job describe 
that for everybody? 

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Well, at the moment actually my 
day job is as a freelance editor

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and indexer of academic books, 
which is a very strange job to 

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have. 
But my background is in medieval

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and early modern literature and 
culture. 

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I work. 
Primarily on England, but also 

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on France and Italy. 
The period that I love. 

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Most is sort of the 14th 15th 
16th century. 

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Like that kind of 300-year. 
Clump is just full of hot messes

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and drama that I cannot get 
enough and full of things. 

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George took inspiration from 
yeah. 

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Like big-time. 
That's a hot spot for for his 

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informations, for sure. 
If you're watching live, you can

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also see that a Shea is on 
camera today, and, of course we 

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have Sean as well. 
So we got a nice group of for 

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today. 
I was like, yeah, I have to show

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up For Kavita. 
So, yeah, right on. 

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Thanks as well to our friend 
Nina whose contributions are 

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00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,800
always. 
So, valuable to us this week on 

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her blog, there's a post that is
not to do with Westeros. 

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It's on the Coburg family of 
Brussels and it's involves our 

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friend, Stephen at. 
Well, who's been a guest? 

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I think one of the most frequent
guests on history of History 

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Western so that you want to 
check that out. 

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Usually writes about A Song of 
Ice and Fire Stuff. 

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But she writes about other 
things as well. 

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And this is an example of a real
world take. 

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She's also had a recent post on,
what if Sansa had received the 

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Wolfpack speech? 
Instead of Aria, and how that 

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may have affected her or not 
going forward at the time, it 

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was relevant. 
This episode was voted on by 

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patrons next week. 
We have the battle of the 

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Trident and the week after that,
we have baelor, the blessed with

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Nina coming on live, instead of 
her usual, Bhai excellent 

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behind-the-scenes work. 
And if this episode ends and you

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want to stammers, we've got you 
covered with some suggestions 

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for topics related. 
To this one will be dropping 

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names here and there throughout 
the flow of this one. 

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Let's get started with our 
trivia question as usual. 

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The quote is they cooked it with
mushrooms and apples and it 

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tasted like Triumph. 
It's the second time mushrooms 

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appear in the book. 
The first time is Catelyn and 

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Sir, Roderick eating at the end 
of the crossroads, what is it in

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this phrase? 
They cook it with mushrooms and 

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apples and it tastes like a, 
what is It. 

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00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,200
Hmm, this is the second time 
we've focused on a source within

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the sources. 
The first being long ago with 

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septon bars and this is nothing 
like septon Barth and that just 

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because one was a court full. 
The other septon though, that is

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a start in describing why 
they're different. 

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Looking at how we see historical
detail within the story. 

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Usually, the sources are all 
mixed together when presented 

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and though you might get a sense
of biases and styles and 

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attitudes there's nothing quite 
like focusing on just one set of

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00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,800
takes looking for patterns and 
drilling it down. 

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And seeing it that way as a much
different look in this case, 

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it's a often pretty large and 
frequently humorous set of takes

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00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:03,300
which is part of why this one is
so special and worthy of an 

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episode and are our guests. 
So let's get started with who 

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was mushroom, a dwarf three feet
tall with an enormous head and 

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00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:12,700
an enormous member to go with 
it. 

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If he is to be believed, 
mushroom was the Court Jester 

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and was thought to be a lack 
with therefore, the worthies of 

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the Court spoke freely about 
him. 

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His testimonial edges, His 
account of the events of the 

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years, when he was at court, set
down by a scribe, whose name, we

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00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,400
do not know, and it is filled 
with mushrooms, Tales of plots, 

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00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,700
murders, trysts debaucheries and
more and all in the most 

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00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:41,700
explicit detail, septon, Eustace
has and mushrooms accounts are 

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00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:45,700
often at odds with one another, 
but at times, there are some 

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00:06:46,100 --> 00:06:48,800
surprising areas of agreement 
between them. 

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00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:51,400
Hmm, that last line in 
particular, is going to shit. 

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00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,500
We're going to shine a light a 
light on that today, but also 

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00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:57,700
that line about the nameless 
scribe that is, would you say 

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00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,000
comida? 
That's part of your theory that 

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00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,500
maybe this isn't just one person
or isn't who they say they are 

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00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:06,000
at all. 
Absolutely. 

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00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,800
Yes, that's a big part of it. 
The fact is, I mean, most of the

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00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,100
sources that we get from 
medieval Europe in particular, 

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00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:16,600
were written down by nameless 
scribes or at the very least, 

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00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,200
even if someone whose name, we 
know wrote them down originally 

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00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,000
they were copied by date with 
scribes. 

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00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,100
And one of the things that I 
think that We don't have in 

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00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:29,900
Westeros or in essos as far as 
we know, is the printing press. 

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00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,200
So anytime a source is copied 
you introduce one layer of human

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00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,400
error. 
So if assuming that the 

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00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,100
testimony of mushroom has been 
copied 5 6 10 12 times, the 

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00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:44,800
version that Fire and Blood is 
based on or the version of Fire 

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00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,100
and Blood is drawing from. 
Who knows who knows how many 

156
00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:51,500
scribes had gotten to it? 
In the meantime I would assume 

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00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:55,800
there's problems like maybe not 
in In this context for Westeros,

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00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,400
although maybe George works as 
Sin and places that that I'm not

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00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,600
thinking of where phrases just 
change like the word a phrase, 

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00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,900
or there's, some meaning behind 
a certain sentence or turn a 

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00:08:05,907 --> 00:08:08,600
phrase that does it loses, that 
meaning a hundred years later, 

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00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,700
we would not know what that 
refers to or that it has more 

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00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:15,700
context to it. 
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

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00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:19,300
Like Words, change phrases, 
change languages, change people 

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00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:21,900
get things wrong. 
Like there's one particular 

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00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:23,700
instance that I am. 
Okay. 

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00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,300
My research assistant. 
Yeah, she's very cute. 

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00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:30,600
She can come and hang out. 
So there's one particular 

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00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,000
instance that I'm especially 
fond of talking about, I brought

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00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,400
it up in a couple of the essays 
that I wrote on House of the 

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00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,700
dragon and adaptation where one 
this actually happened in a 

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00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:41,600
printed Chronicle not even a 
manuscript one. 

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So you can imagine how much 
easier it is in a manuscript 

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00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,700
Chronicle when you're writing it
out. 

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00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:49,800
But in this particular 
Chronicle, the number 17 was 

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00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,100
accidentally changed to the 
number 12. 

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00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,600
Such that a person who died in 
battle went from being age, 17 

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to age 12. 
That's a huge difference. 

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00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:06,200
Wow, because 17 year old dying 
in battle in 1460 is tragic but 

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00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:12,000
not entirely out of the ordinary
twelve-year-old dying in battle 

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00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,700
in 1460, that's noteworthy. 
Yeah. 

182
00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:17,300
And if you read that wrong you 
might think it was normal. 

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00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:18,800
You might think. 
Oh twelve-year-old and battle. 

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00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,600
Like it's not that hard to 
mistake that as being. 

185
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,800
Oh I guess you. 
Did you take that? 

186
00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:26,700
Their 12 year old man, a loyal. 
They're not commenting on it 

187
00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:30,100
being abnormal, so it must be 
normal but it's an error. 

188
00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,900
Not a Yeah. 
Just they didn't case where they

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00:09:32,908 --> 00:09:34,600
didn't explain something, that's
normal. 

190
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,300
Yeah. 
A 17 year old dying in battle is

191
00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:38,800
tragic. 
A twelve-year-old dying in 

192
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,200
battle is a statistic. 
It's a rounding error. 

193
00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:46,600
That's an outlier. 
Wait a minute, that's not 

194
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,700
supposed to be here. 
So we'll build our way up to the

195
00:09:49,700 --> 00:09:53,900
full theory of mushroom as we 
described the more standard Ed 

196
00:09:53,908 --> 00:09:57,200
version, but little more setup 
just the name. 

197
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,800
Mushroom is evocative. 
Of course, most of the time when

198
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,100
that word appears, it's the 
context of food especially in A 

199
00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:06,100
Song of Ice and Fire because the
character mushroom isn't 

200
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:10,300
referred to in the main five 
books, of course he's frequently

201
00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:12,100
referred to in the world of Ice 
and Fire and fired. 

202
00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:16,500
But in fact the word mushroom 
appears more in Fire and Blood 

203
00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:19,300
than it appears in all five of 
Song of Ice and Fire books 

204
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:25,700
because of this character, of 
course, I don't actually see 

205
00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:27,900
here. 
Like you, you talk about how its

206
00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:29,300
evocative. 
Yeah. 

207
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,500
But like, we all know what it's 
evocative like of, right? 

208
00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:36,500
I just like when we I looked and
I'm like you don't actually say 

209
00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:41,400
it but very sexual. 
It evokes a lot, a lot, it's 

210
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:47,300
actually culture, its food, 
Boyz, Boyz, tasty food. 

211
00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:48,400
Yeah. 
Lots of stuff. 

212
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,600
Yeah, it is a lot of stuff, 
which I think is appropriate for

213
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,300
this character because he is, 
there's a lot of ways to 

214
00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,200
approach it. 
It like Kavita says there's 

215
00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:58,900
suspicions around his identity 
whether he's telling the truth, 

216
00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:02,200
whether why he you know what his
reason for not telling the truth

217
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,400
is whether it's just embellish, 
Minore, poor memory or the fact 

218
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,200
that he doesn't exist. 
Brian says, there's a hundred 

219
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,400
kinds of mushrooms down in the 
greenseers caverns. 

220
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,700
That's super evocative right 
there too. 

221
00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:15,400
Even though it's not exactly on 
topic. 

222
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200
And of course it's tempting to 
compare cheery into mush, their 

223
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,500
Dwarfs with wicked sense of 
humor, very sexual Hmm, one 

224
00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:28,300
could even call mushroom a fun. 
Go I love it. 

225
00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:30,900
She's fire out. 
Yeah fired I'll show myself. 

226
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,900
I would be such a hypocrite but 
there but there might not 

227
00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:39,100
actually be that much more that 
Tyrion and mushroom have in 

228
00:11:39,108 --> 00:11:40,500
common. 
The stuff is mostly surface 

229
00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:42,600
level but we'll maybe will point
out a few other things that we 

230
00:11:42,608 --> 00:11:44,300
go on. 
There's a lot of things that 

231
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:47,200
they're really the opposite on 
and that's more relevant here. 

232
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,100
I think because no one like 
Circe was in spilling her 

233
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,900
Secrets around tyrion's you in 
fact very guarded with them and 

234
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,500
Because Tyrion is regarded as 
cunning and not very trustworthy

235
00:11:56,500 --> 00:12:00,100
by a lot of people mushroom. 
That's the key to mushroom is 

236
00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:04,100
that he was so unfriending that 
he was around during things that

237
00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:08,600
you would never expect any 
witness to be around for letting

238
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,200
like he was there when people 
were like, banging each other, 

239
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,800
like why is anyone present for 
that, you know? 

240
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,300
But apparently, you know, he was
there so that does that is 

241
00:12:19,300 --> 00:12:23,300
interesting if true. 
So, yeah, maesters stepped Ins 

242
00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:25,300
they would never have that kind 
of access. 

243
00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:26,400
It would make them 
uncomfortable. 

244
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,300
Actually, it's particularly on 
the blacks faction because 

245
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,300
that's who he was around the 
most. 

246
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,200
So he has less to say about the 
green. 

247
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,400
Well, he has a lot to say about 
the greens. 

248
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,600
It's just well, we like to take 
our mushrooms more salted women.

249
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,100
When in that scenario Tyrion 
would need spies to get the kind

250
00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:44,700
of information that mushroom 
gets. 

251
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:47,300
You know, in fact, mushroom 
would have made a killing as a 

252
00:12:47,308 --> 00:12:49,900
spy. 
If he wanted to be one and maybe

253
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,400
he considered that could have, 
yeah, he could have gotten rich 

254
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,400
on that. 
Maybe that's why he was able to 

255
00:12:54,408 --> 00:12:55,500
retire later. 
Yeah. 

256
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,400
Selling his secrets on the side 
but still those loose tongues 

257
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,500
that's the reason why this 
episode exists. 

258
00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:06,300
Why he's so important? 
Here's a one final example that 

259
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,500
I think is important and when we
have an actual quote for from 

260
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:13,800
tearing the empty flag and 
slipped from his hand and rolled

261
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,700
across the yard Tyrion pushed 
himself off the bench and went 

262
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:20,700
to fetch it. 
As he did, he saw some mushrooms

263
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:22,900
growing up from a cracked Paving
tile. 

264
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,000
I'll hail white, they were with 
speckles and red ribbed 

265
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,100
undersides. 
Dark is blood. 

266
00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:33,500
The dwarf snap, one off and 
sniffed it, delicious, he 

267
00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:36,500
thought and deadly. 
There were seven of the 

268
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:40,600
mushrooms perhaps the seven were
trying to tell him something for

269
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:41,900
another time. 
We'd have to discuss. 

270
00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:43,400
Why? 
Look at the symbolism there. 

271
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,400
There are seven of them but they
look like we're Woods. 

272
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,600
Right? 
So just again, the mutt, the 

273
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,200
topic of mushroom is just a 
bajillion ways that it comes up 

274
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,600
in the story, whether Symbol or 
whether in this case it's poison

275
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,400
he considers taking it himself. 
Then he has the non poison 

276
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,900
mushroom trick from illyrio that
comes shortly after this, then 

277
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:03,400
he actually gives them to nurse 
to kill nurse later. 

278
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,400
The point of, this is all these 
things for most of us, we read 

279
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,800
all this before being introduced
to the character of mushrooms. 

280
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,800
We had all these examples of how
George uses mushrooms in the 

281
00:14:12,808 --> 00:14:14,500
story. 
And how that applies to this 

282
00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,900
character, a couple other 
examples away from Poison and 

283
00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:19,300
things like that. 
Just the way George uses 

284
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:21,700
mushrooms more generically, 
here's Vara. 

285
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:23,900
Speaking to Cersei, And the 
small Council. 

286
00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:25,700
Have you ever considered that 
too? 

287
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:28,200
Many answers are the same as no 
answers at all. 

288
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,600
My informers are not always, is 
highly places. 

289
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,600
We might like when it came dies,
fancy Sprout, like mushrooms in 

290
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,500
the dark. 
This is super relevant because 

291
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,100
it's about multiple sources and 
resources in general, right? 

292
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:44,200
Like that's this is the bullseye
from Baris here and he goes, on 

293
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,700
to list, the various rumors 
about renly's death. 

294
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,100
Now the one thing we can glean 
from that at the time, we of 

295
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:52,500
course saw it happen. 
So even if we hadn't, we were 

296
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:54,300
just okay. 
They all agree that renly's Dad.

297
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:57,600
The question is just how, and 
that's a lot of what we see in 

298
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,200
Fire and Blood though, certainly
not always. 

299
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,400
Now, here's another example, 
that one was virus speaking to 

300
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,900
Cersei. 
Now, here's Cersei speaking to 

301
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:08,500
Sansa just before the battle of 
the Blackwater, quote, another 

302
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:11,500
lesson, you should learn. 
If you hope to sit beside my 

303
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:15,600
son, be gentle on a night like 
this, and you'll have treasons 

304
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,900
popping up all about you, like 
mushrooms after a hard rain, the

305
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:23,500
only way to keep your people 
loyal is to make make certain 

306
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,000
they fear you more than they do 
the enemy. 

307
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:29,500
Again, the metaphor are used 
their mushrooms after hard rain 

308
00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:31,900
is set in Fire and Blood several
times as well. 

309
00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:34,900
So I think George is likes that 
one or maybe he's decided that 

310
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:39,700
it's a, it's a westerosi saying,
what do you think of comedian? 

311
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,500
So, mushrooms grow in the dark, 
they grow after storms. 

312
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,400
They grow in secret places. 
They pop up unexpectedly and 

313
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,100
quickly, many of them can kill 
you. 

314
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,800
If you aren't careful and it is 
not easy to tell the good ones 

315
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,300
from the bad ones. 
I'd say that sounds Pretty close

316
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:56,200
to our mushroom. 
Well said. 

317
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,700
Yeah, very true. 
Just supposing that maybe it's 

318
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,400
just like a saying in Westeros. 
I like that more because just 

319
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,400
thinking about Cersei who grew 
up wealthy and casterly rock. 

320
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,000
How much experience was she have
seeing Mushroom sprout up after 

321
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,000
a hard rain? 
Ha ha, ha. 

322
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:15,700
I mean, like I think that's 
something she's heard not 

323
00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:18,000
witness. 
So I think it in fact, it's used

324
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,900
elsewhere, I'm going to say, 
it's a westerosi saying, it is 

325
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:23,700
more like a farmer's saying, 
yeah, the Unlike some of that 

326
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:25,000
Nobles say yeah, that's a good 
point. 

327
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,200
I like that. 
Yeah, well said, one of my 

328
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,100
favorite examples, it it kind of
summarizes all these together. 

329
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:32,700
It basically overlaps, the 
different topics here, we have 

330
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:37,200
Tyrion being left in the dark. 
After the battle of Blackwater 

331
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,000
is healing and he says my sister
thinks I'm a mushroom. 

332
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:43,600
That's a nice little summary of 
all that. 

333
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:44,800
Okay. 
So let's get into the historical

334
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,000
mushroom. 
He was apparently, at court 

335
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,500
already. 
When Damon was named master of 

336
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,800
coin in 103, So, he would at 
least be a teenager by then if 

337
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,700
not older. 
We often do see. 

338
00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:01,400
Like hatch face was brought 
pretty young to Westeros even 

339
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,700
though he clearly is a had, a 
very different Vector for his 

340
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:06,300
development. 
He was, he was young. 

341
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,099
He was a slave mushroom was not 
a slave. 

342
00:17:09,099 --> 00:17:11,599
As far as we know, he was 
fooled, viserys is court and 

343
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,700
possibly even before because my 
theory is we know, Jerry's was 

344
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:18,099
depressed and we know why 
there's a lot of tragedies in 

345
00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:19,500
his life. 
Again, they may have been 

346
00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:22,200
looking for things to cheer him 
up, maybe that makes sense. 

347
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,500
Is that kind of fit for y'all? 
Do you have any other ideas for 

348
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:27,400
maybe when he appeared for the 
first time? 

349
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:33,800
Because that's my best guess. 
I actually wonder if he came 

350
00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:37,400
from Old Town. 
When Otto Hightower came to 

351
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,800
court and became hand of the 
king to Jerry's. 

352
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,700
That's interesting. 
Yeah, that's a good call. 

353
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,400
Couple things here. 
One hour. 

354
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,800
I want to make this 
clarification that I haven't 

355
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,600
actually read Fire and Blood. 
So I'm trying to stay in so lead

356
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,200
for the second season house. 
The Dragon As our audience, you 

357
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,900
know, we're going to try to 
avoid spoiling it. 

358
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:59,400
And so if I seem ignorant on 
something that's why, and that 

359
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,000
might show a my question here, 
how do we know when he first 

360
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,600
appeared? 
We don't we don't. 

361
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,800
That's just his first first time
he's sighted as appearing. 

362
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,500
But that sighting, is that 
something that he said, that's 

363
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,000
the earliest thing that he 
referenced about himself being 

364
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,700
present. 
That we know of is that yes, I 

365
00:18:14,708 --> 00:18:17,800
believe. 
So he cites himself being there,

366
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,900
being witness, to that, refers 
to that. 

367
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:22,100
Yeah, so it's just the earliest 
thing. 

368
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,000
He talked about So we assumed he
was ostensibly. 

369
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,300
It must have been there for that
but could have been there for 

370
00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:29,400
longer than 4 that could have 
been could be lying. 

371
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,500
Like, that's always if any of 
these cases there's always the 

372
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:37,400
caveat that it might not be when
rhaenyra first left for 

373
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,600
Dragonstone in 114 with break 
bones, mushroom went with her. 

374
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,500
That's part of my theory that he
was brought more for Jerry's 

375
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:49,700
than viserys because he never 
really stayed with viserys until

376
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:51,300
the stairs got sick. 
There seems to be evidence that 

377
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:52,800
he was with the saris more when 
his hand. 

378
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,200
Problem, which, as you recall, 
in the book, that was a much 

379
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,700
shorter thing and the show was 
like, the whole seat that was. 

380
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:01,000
His hand was a problem from 
episode 1 until he died. 

381
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,800
Well, eventually don't even have
hand, but you know what I mean, 

382
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,000
it was still problem. 
So that was much shorter span. 

383
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,800
I was more like a year 126 and 
apparently mushroom stuck around

384
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,600
and maybe try to cheer him up 
through his health issues. 

385
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,800
But the fact that he left to go 
with rhaenyra either means he 

386
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,600
just got along better with 
Rainier or he was never really 

387
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,300
meant for viserys in the first 
because there is didn't need 

388
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:21,100
cheering well, maybe in a few 
spots. 

389
00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:23,300
But for the most part you this 
guy was thrust into We throwing 

390
00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:26,700
parties anyway, like mushroom, 
maybe would have fit into all 

391
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:29,600
that Fire and Blood. 
It's only mentioned like, it's 

392
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,500
mentioned that mushroom at 
various times capered for the 

393
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:35,400
amusement of King viserys. 
Princess rhaenyra, and both 

394
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,100
aegon's the second and the third
there's no mention of Jerry's, 

395
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:39,800
but it doesn't mean that he 
wasn't there, right? 

396
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,800
Is Matt Damon being named master
of coin was after this era 

397
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,600
system that was one of ya. 
So I think it might have been 

398
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,200
the same here. 
I think that when the council is

399
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,500
your anyway, it's right around 
there. 

400
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:50,500
So easily could have been there 
before. 

401
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:52,800
That's, that's pretty clear 
though, it's not. 

402
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,300
So he's going to what's 
interesting about him as well, 

403
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,800
is that he would outlive pretty 
much everyone involved here, 

404
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,100
which is part of why. 
I think he may have only been a 

405
00:20:01,108 --> 00:20:03,100
teen years because if you add 
too many more years to him, 

406
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:06,500
you're talking about someone in 
his 80s or 90s, which is not 

407
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:09,100
impossible by any means, but you
know what about him capering 

408
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:12,500
about so much. 
Yeah, it gets less like, yeah. 

409
00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:16,000
And of course, he lives on in a 
metaphorical sense because he 

410
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,800
was a source, right? 
So I have this question Kavita. 

411
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,700
Is there anything in the real 
world about? 

412
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:27,500
Like a gesture or an unusual 
Source outside of the normal 

413
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:29,900
historians and academics and 
things like that. 

414
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:32,800
Well, not that we know of 
exactly. 

415
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,900
But there are kind of a couple 
of different things that are not

416
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:38,100
too dissimilar. 
For instance, we have some 

417
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,900
accounts of the favorite Court 
Jester to King Henry, the 8th of

418
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:43,400
England whose name was Will 
Somers. 

419
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,800
It's one of the few instances 
where we actually have a name to

420
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,800
go with this gesture or this 
figure, but we don't really have

421
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,300
anything that he wrote himself, 
we don't even necessarily know 

422
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,500
that he was literate and Are 
also of course there and there 

423
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:56,800
are records of different 
medieval and early modern 

424
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,300
monarchs who had attendance. 
If not necessarily Jesters with 

425
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,100
dwarfism that was considered, I 
mean horribly as it as it was 

426
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:08,300
considered a status symbol but 
it was a thing that's on record 

427
00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:10,700
as having been done in a number 
of different Royal courts. 

428
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:13,500
Particularly in Spain 
particularly in France, but 

429
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:15,700
Queen Mary, the first of England
whose mother, of course was 

430
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:19,100
Spanish and whose husband was, 
Spanish, is reported to have had

431
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:22,700
a dwarf amongst her 
ladies-in-waiting weaving. 

432
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,200
Idea why that became a status 
symbol. 

433
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,300
It just seems so odd. 
I don't sides of it being, you 

434
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:31,000
know, like you said pretty 
terrible. 

435
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:35,900
It's just weird. 
It is a weird thing, but it was,

436
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:39,600
I mean it's it's pie pops up 
enough times and sources that it

437
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,000
does seem to have been a thing 
that people did much like later 

438
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,000
on in the course of my p.m. to 
Annette, she had this entire 

439
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,600
Little Village built where she 
would go and try to be left 

440
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,700
alone and pretend to be a 
shepherdess, which I mean, it's 

441
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:58,000
sort of like 18th Cottage Corps 
Base, which on the one hand like

442
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,000
that woman has been maligned 
tremendously in the in after her

443
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:02,900
death. 
And I don't know that you 

444
00:22:02,908 --> 00:22:07,500
necessarily deserved it but 
yeah, that is Royals had really 

445
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:12,000
weird Hobbies. 
I guess this potato, I thought 

446
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,600
on that was did, it would be 
something that's kind of rare 

447
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:18,600
and it shows that your power my 
must be far-reaching to get to 

448
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,900
something that rare. 
You know, it's unusual. 

449
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,000
Like it's that Pete. 
They I'm Sure. 

450
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,500
That there were some monarchs 
who treated their attendance 

451
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:28,800
better than others, but it was 
kind of like part of a menagerie

452
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,500
like good. 
But again, like it's awful but 

453
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:34,300
it kind of is how people were 
viewed. 

454
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,500
Mmm. 
So we might also say one 

455
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:41,900
commentary about mushroom is 
that his takes are overly 

456
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:46,000
sexualized but could we argue 
that takes from septons and 

457
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,300
celibate orders, like maesters 
or under sexualized, or maybe at

458
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:52,500
least not framed properly or 
misunderstood? 

459
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:57,800
What do you think about that? 
I mean, my suspicion is I at 

460
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,100
least think that in the case in 
this particular case looking not

461
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:03,900
just at mushroom but also a 
guild Dane who is writing about 

462
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:07,600
mushroom, the Meister celibacy 
makes them even more likely to 

463
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,000
assume a sexual explanation for 
anything because they assume 

464
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,400
that all women and that's women 
with an asterisk because it be 

465
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,600
they could apply this to someone
like lane or Volare and they can

466
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,200
apply this to some like anyone 
who of any gender who is not a 

467
00:23:21,208 --> 00:23:23,800
Meister or acceptance are driven
by email. 

468
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,500
Need for sex and more 
importantly by an inability to 

469
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:30,700
control themselves. 
Like, it's this perception from 

470
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:33,700
the mice early class that anyone
who is not a Meister is 

471
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:36,300
completely like a slave to their
sex drive. 

472
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:37,700
Yeah. 
Okay. 

473
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:41,500
So maybe they're just like more 
ignorant of it rather than well 

474
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:43,300
that which is basically said. 
Yeah. 

475
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,700
Yeah. 
That makes sense. 

476
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,700
Yeah. 
And and also there's a lot of 

477
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:51,100
that that contributes a lot to 
his like they don't know how 

478
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:53,800
childbirth Works. 
They don't know how like if a 

479
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,500
Dies in childbirth. 
They just mentioned it as though

480
00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:57,700
it's nothing. 
Like know. 

481
00:23:57,700 --> 00:23:59,900
There are a lot of there are 
many many reasons why that could

482
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,300
have happened. 
Yeah, there's just one death 

483
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:05,000
from childbirth, isn't the isn't
the barracks? 

484
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,600
Not a debts not a cause of 
death. 

485
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,100
That's a category. 
There are things that yeah 

486
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,700
there's yeah, there's under 
underlying causes that are much 

487
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,200
more detailed and specific and 
that's where something like the 

488
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,400
adaptation of choices that they 
made in House of the dragon come

489
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:18,900
in. 
Because all, we know from Fire 

490
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:21,600
and Blood is Emma are and died 
in childbirth periods. 

491
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,400
They had to choose and the fact 
that they took Took that and 

492
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,900
they made it into this 
incredible. 

493
00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:30,100
Tragic linchpin for the entire 
season that I think is an 

494
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:34,600
example of how kind of house of 
the Dragon takes a throwaway 

495
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,300
thing in Fire and Blood and 
expands it not just in terms of 

496
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:42,400
pop, in terms of feet. 
And that's what mushroom is 

497
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,200
accused of doing it. 
Sometimes, just adding things 

498
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,500
here and there, just to make it 
seem more interesting whether or

499
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:51,800
not it actually happened. 
Now, of course with fiction. 

500
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,800
You can do that all you want, 
but we The idea and to talk 

501
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,900
about sources and I guess, maybe
what I was getting out that 

502
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:00,300
other point is there let may be 
less likely to include detail to

503
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:04,300
go into the explicit detail of 
especially the septums of like 

504
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,800
specific sex acts and and all 
that. 

505
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,600
But but they do include it in 
Fire and Blood because they're 

506
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,900
including, mushrooms takes. 
But I wonder, but they always, 

507
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:14,000
maybe that's part of why they 
always say. 

508
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,500
Well, this is mushroom steak, we
wouldn't right quick, swap, 

509
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,300
mushroom would say, this is not 
what we're saying me serious 

510
00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:24,000
academics. 
This is what Oops. 

511
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,200
Fire and Blood has this to say 
about this whole thing. 

512
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600
Whereas stepped in Eustis 
records, the secrets of 

513
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,800
bedchamber and brothel and 
hushed, condemnatory tones, 

514
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,400
mushroom, Delights in the same, 
and his testimony consists of 

515
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,500
little, but ribald tales and 
gossip piling stabbings 

516
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,000
poisonings, betrayals seductions
and debaucheries. 

517
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,200
One Atop The Other. 
How much of this can be believed

518
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,700
is a question, the honest 
historian I cannot hope to 

519
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:01,500
answer, but it is worth noting 
that King baelor, The Blessed 

520
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:05,800
decreed that every copy of 
mushrooms, Chronicle should be 

521
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,400
burned. 
Now, that's clearly an example 

522
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,900
of a guy that was didn't like 
sexual content, like, of all 

523
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:17,300
time, he was number one on them.
So they were the Blessed. 

524
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:19,500
Had his way. 
He definitely that in listen to 

525
00:26:19,508 --> 00:26:21,900
burn books, clearly, some of 
them escaped the burning. 

526
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,900
That's why the records exist. 
Now, I don't want to justify 

527
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:29,300
bail or two, Much, but to be 
fair, it wasn't just sexual 

528
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:31,200
content, right? 
There was a lot of this stuff 

529
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,200
aside from sexual content that 
paints targaryens in a bad light

530
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,100
so like yeah, extramarital 
Affairs and sure on and on, 

531
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:37,900
right? 
So, that's true. 

532
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:42,500
Yeah, it wasn't necessarily just
him being like the morality 

533
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:46,400
police about it, like but I do 
think that was the root of it, 

534
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,000
like, I was largely him being 
around. 

535
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,600
If it had just shown the 
targaryens in a bad light but 

536
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,900
never showed any like improper 
Behavior. 

537
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,100
I don't know if I think babe. 
Our would have targeted it like 

538
00:26:58,100 --> 00:26:59,600
that might just be a happy 
accident. 

539
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,800
Well, here's something to 
consider think of the cynical 

540
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,800
angle. 
When Baylor is announced or 

541
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,500
starts burning books. 
Your you might have certain 

542
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:10,200
people that use him as a vehicle
to erase certain knowledge to 

543
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,700
say hay. 
Baler, you should have this one 

544
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,600
bird, you know, this is this 
one's real bad King. 

545
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,800
Like look at the find some Pious
reason why and then barrels like

546
00:27:18,808 --> 00:27:22,100
yeah throw that one on the 
burning pile to you know pre 

547
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:24,700
probably wouldn't be that hard 
to convince on this case. 

548
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,900
Yeah. 
Especially if like Book this 300

549
00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:30,500
Pages. 
Someone could read one awful 

550
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:34,300
line and no, yes burn that one 
and he doesn't know was actually

551
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,400
school board book committee 
where someone had done exactly. 

552
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,400
That amount final like three 
random paragraphs out of a young

553
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,000
adult book and were screaming 
about it in our local school 

554
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,700
districts library and I had to 
come in and be like no, this 

555
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:52,200
book is actually fine. 
This person is completely off 

556
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,400
the rocker context matters, 
context matters. 

557
00:27:57,500 --> 00:27:59,800
Yeah, I mean that's at work 
here. 

558
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,000
The maesters are quick to point 
out that this comes from 

559
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,600
mushroom but they still include 
it. 

560
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:07,200
As part of historical record. 
Mushroom wouldn't have been to 

561
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,900
welcome at Baylor's Court. 
I don't know that he was into 

562
00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:13,100
having a fool of any sort, let 
alone, let alone. 

563
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:14,800
One that talk about, sex all the
time. 

564
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,200
He wouldn't didn't fit in 
particular while the egg on the 

565
00:28:17,208 --> 00:28:21,000
third either who didn't have 
those proclivities or much of a 

566
00:28:21,008 --> 00:28:23,200
sense of humor, for 
understandable reasons, but 

567
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,800
clearly rhaenyra liked him 
because she kept him around and 

568
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,000
maybe Damon, As well because if 
Damon didn't like him, he may 

569
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,500
have been like, get rid of that 
guy. 

570
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:33,100
And I don't know if rhaenyra 
would have argued too hard to 

571
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:36,300
keep him if Damon was unhappy 
and viserys was clearly happy 

572
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:39,000
with him as well. 
Even though he stayed around 

573
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,500
right nearer the most computer, 
you have some great notes here. 

574
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:45,100
Take it away on this sub topic. 
There are plenty of medieval and

575
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:48,300
early modern monarchs, who tried
to ban books or authors who said

576
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:51,300
things that they just didn't 
like some were more insistent 

577
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:52,500
than others. 
But if we're talking 

578
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,100
specifically about banning 
books, the monarchs that I 

579
00:28:55,108 --> 00:28:59,200
immediately think of our Tutors.
But it's worth keeping in mind 

580
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,700
that they were also. 
The first English monarchs who 

581
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:04,400
had to deal with the printing 
press on a large scale. 

582
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,900
So for instance, under the 
previous monarchs ever before 

583
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,000
with Richard, the third and at 
least for the first several 

584
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,400
years of Henry, the seventh who 
was technically a tutor, but 

585
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,600
didn't call himself that there 
were only a handful of printers 

586
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,900
in the entire country and pretty
much all of the worked for the 

587
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:21,000
royal family in some capacity or
another. 

588
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:24,500
But fast forward from there, 
from these sort of late for 15th

589
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:29,600
century to 1555 on the 13th of 
June, 1555 Queen Mary, the first

590
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,600
issued an entire list of books 
that she decided to have banned 

591
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,500
because they were quote had 
seditious and heretical within 

592
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,900
the borders of her realm. 
These were primarily Protestant 

593
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,500
taxis were primarily religious 
texts. 

594
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,200
But there's also a couple of 
weird inclusions such as Halls 

595
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,700
Chronicle. 
Now, Paul's Chronicle refers to 

596
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,200
an English history of the 15th 
century civil wars. 

597
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,800
That we now call the wars of the
Roses. 

598
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,100
Thanks, to the plays written by 
William Shakespeare, which 

599
00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:58,300
happened to be Based on the 
Chronicles that were bad. 

600
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:02,100
So that's always a good time. 
But why were they banned one? 

601
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,900
Because the author was a vocal 
Protestant who applied, a very 

602
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:10,200
specific Protestant angle to his
history, Kings won battles, not 

603
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,600
just because they were 
preordained but because that 

604
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,900
preordination also fit within a 
much larger progress toward the 

605
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:18,600
end of protestant time which is 
beyond the scope of today's 

606
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,500
discussion. 
But in any event it's not 

607
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,300
actually that surprising that a 
king would ban history text 

608
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:26,600
especially one that is as full 
of sort of Scandal and In 

609
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,900
raunchiness, as mushrooms, for 
instance, like baelor, the 

610
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:34,500
Blessed his grandmother was 
Princess rhaenyra. 

611
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,200
So, having all of these things 
about rhaenyra in a text, who 

612
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,800
was his direct, his direct 
ancestor point that might not 

613
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,900
have sat. 
So well, with this, extremely 

614
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:47,400
Pious Monarch, like, all of 
these stories about her sleeping

615
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,900
with her Uncle when she was 13 
and all of that stuff he didn't 

616
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:52,400
like it whether yeah you're 
right like that may damage. 

617
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:55,300
It wouldn't have looked it's not
good publicity one way or the 

618
00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:59,300
other but the Closest analog to 
the kind of specific kinds of 

619
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:01,900
stories that mushroom house, 
because that's not what you find

620
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:03,300
in Halls. 
Chronicle Halls Chronicle has a 

621
00:31:03,308 --> 00:31:05,700
lot of stabbing but not have 
that particular sort. 

622
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:08,900
So the closest analog the kinds 
of stories that mushroom likes 

623
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:13,200
to tell isn't historical so much
as kind of historical literary. 

624
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,800
I have a whole rant about how 
historical and literary texts 

625
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,500
are kind of on the same 
Continuum but we don't need to 

626
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:19,900
get into that. 
The relevant takeaway, is that 

627
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:24,100
written history is always, in 
some sense, a literary text in 

628
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:26,700
that it is taking a series of 
events and interpreting Them in 

629
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:28,600
a narrative form. 
But if you're looking for the 

630
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,300
kinds of racy exploits that he's
talking about in the medieval 

631
00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:35,100
and early modern periods, what 
you want is correspondents 

632
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:44,400
propaganda or boccaccio generic 
specific or if you want to look 

633
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,400
at or you want to look at 
earlier historians you want to 

634
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,500
be looking at the Roman 
historians with a Byzantine 

635
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:51,000
historian to look at suit 
odious, who was writing during 

636
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,700
the time of Nero or you want to 
be looking at someone like 

637
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:55,800
procopius who is writing under 
the emperor. 

638
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,800
Justinian In Byzantium. 
And I have to give a hat to a 

639
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,900
Steven at well for reminding me 
about Rico because I completely 

640
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:03,400
forgot. 
No, he's popping up all over the

641
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,500
question. 
What do you think the difference

642
00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:07,500
was? 
You think it was cultural that 

643
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,400
allowed? 
Those historians to write a bit 

644
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,200
more racy topics, you can go 
just that, that allowed that to 

645
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,400
stand the test of time or what? 
Well, partly, I mean, the Romans

646
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,800
and the byzantines are writing 
outside the Catholic church. 

647
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:25,600
So that is definitely a part of 
it, but also like the procopius 

648
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,000
is Secret. 
History was not authorized by 

649
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:32,700
anyone in the Byzantine Empire. 
It was just mayor and people 

650
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:34,700
read it. 
And that's why I think the 

651
00:32:34,708 --> 00:32:38,200
boccaccio comparison is also 
kind of an interesting one. 

652
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,800
Because boccaccio people don't 
think of him as a historian 

653
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:46,100
because he really wasn't, but he
did write a number of things 

654
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:49,700
that ended up getting folded 
into histories, whether or not 

655
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:53,900
he necessarily intended to 
boccaccio's the Colorado and a, 

656
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:57,800
the Cameron is a 14th century 
collections. 100 stories that 

657
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,800
were supposedly collected by a 
group of board. 

658
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,500
Florentine terroristic. 
Rats were holed up in quarantine

659
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:07,000
during the black death in the 
Tuscan Countryside which is a 

660
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,100
nice place to be held up during 
quarantine. 

661
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:13,200
Let me say, I wish I'd been 
there in Spring of 2012 but 

662
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,500
because everyone is bored and 
either about to embark on an 

663
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,300
orgy that we don't hear about or
has just finished an orgy. 

664
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:22,500
That we don't hear both of which
the Italian film industry has 

665
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:28,600
immortalized all the stories. 
Cameron are somehow about sex 

666
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,200
and this book was banned 
everywhere. 

667
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,900
No one was supposed to read it 
but everybody read it anywhere. 

668
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,800
Now in case, any of you 
listeners are planning to run 

669
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,800
off and read the Decameron, I do
want to add a trigger warning, 

670
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,000
because boccaccio's, idea of 
consent is firmly stuck in the 

671
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,800
14th century. 
And as a bonus, he was also a 

672
00:33:46,808 --> 00:33:49,300
clergyman with serious misogyny 
problems. 

673
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,200
Yeah, boccaccio was a clergyman.
He was a member of the Catholic 

674
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,100
church and he wrote this stuff. 
So let's just say Piatt that 

675
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:01,000
there is a tremendous amount of 
dubious shit and I'm so dead 

676
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,000
Dove whatever. 
It is these days reader beware. 

677
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:07,400
So as a side note, I think Nina 
had a note about this as well. 

678
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:11,300
George has never mentioned a 
westerosi or associate 

679
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:15,300
equivalent to someone like 
Christine De pizan a woman who 

680
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,800
was, who looked at all of these 
misogynist texts and went guys, 

681
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:22,600
shut up. 
Let me actually tell you how it 

682
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,500
is and wrote a completely 
different text that is It's 

683
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:29,699
still red and that people 
actually read at the time and 

684
00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:32,400
that people found interesting 
and that women read me. 

685
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,900
No women read it. 
Like a text that pushes back 

686
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:36,500
against a lot of these 
misogynist folks. 

687
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:40,699
We don't really see that in Fire
and Blood at all right on. 

688
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,500
Well said there, let's talk 
about the last time. 

689
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,100
The last brief are aware 
mushroom was around court before

690
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:50,800
we get into some of the more 
specific material. 

691
00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:53,900
Here's a another quote, 
referring to the man on my 

692
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:55,400
shirt. 
Yeah, uh-huh. 

693
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,800
After the Loss of his fingers, 
the series, the first never sat 

694
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,800
upon the Iron Throne again 
thereafter. 

695
00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:06,000
He shunned the throne room 
referring to hold Court in his 

696
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,200
solar and later in his 
bedchamber surrounded by 

697
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,800
maesters septons and his 
faithful fool mushroom, the only

698
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,600
man who could still make him 
laugh, she says mushroom. 

699
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,900
I'm inclined to believe. 
I mean, he was funny like that. 

700
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:25,200
I can kind of like it some 
things he says I'm like I don't 

701
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,600
know about that one. 
Yeah, I can believe that he 

702
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,200
could still make the saris 
laughs. 

703
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,900
You know, that's that's my head 
can. 

704
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:33,400
What about y'all? 
Yeah, I think maybe viserys 

705
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,400
would still laugh at children 
because children but that like 

706
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,600
the grandkids and what not 
playing like maybe, you know, 

707
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:39,500
maybe that's. 
Yeah. 

708
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:41,300
I mean that's the thing. 
He also had a bunch of 

709
00:35:41,308 --> 00:35:43,000
grandkids. 
He also had a bunch of children 

710
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,400
and grandchildren at that point.
So I feel like watching mushroom

711
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,300
interact with with kids would 
probably make the saris laugh 

712
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:53,700
and he seems like an easygoing 
sort of guy anyway and Fire and 

713
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:56,700
Blood. 
So I imagine he just was Happy 

714
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:59,900
to laugh. 
Yeah and of course even when on 

715
00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:03,700
Dragonstone he would be coming 
back and forth a lot. 

716
00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:04,800
Gibby. 
Do you have a note here about 

717
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,200
how maybe that was lost in the 
shuffle of the portrayal on TV? 

718
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,700
I think it was a little bit. 
I mean partly, this is it's 

719
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,200
completely understandable. 
Reasons, dragons are expensive 

720
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,800
to film and they wanted to sort 
of save them for climactic 

721
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,900
moments and I get that. 
But one thing that I think House

722
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:25,700
of the Dragon underplayed was 
how much time the targaryens 

723
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:28,800
actually. 
Spent with or on their dragons 

724
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,800
because the impression I always 
had from Fire and Blood is that 

725
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,300
rhaenyra in particular was 
constantly sort of flying 

726
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:37,600
between these different 
locations, King's Landing drift 

727
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,200
bark Dragonstone, even pentose 
maybe even others of the free 

728
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,500
cities. 
We don't know. 

729
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,700
One of the things we don't 
really get from Fire. 

730
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:47,700
And Blood is, how fast do 
dragons fly? 

731
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,300
How long does it take to get 
from one location to another? 

732
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:55,100
Because another thing that I 
confess I have been wondering 

733
00:36:55,100 --> 00:37:00,000
ever since I first read And 
blood was during that 20 year 

734
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,800
period, like 15 to 20 year 
period when viserys was King, 

735
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,800
was he sending rhaenyra Oregon 
or a claim? 

736
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,200
And eventually like, was he 
sending people out to do 

737
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,900
diplomacy on dragons? 
Because we hear about Jerry's 

738
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:16,900
and all the same doing that, but
we don't really hear about any 

739
00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:19,000
other Targaryen monarchs doing. 
Us a good point. 

740
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:23,100
The show sort of had viserys 
downplay that we didn't want to 

741
00:37:23,107 --> 00:37:25,000
send Dragon Riders and in that 
bed, right at beginning of 

742
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,300
episode 1, Rainier as As flying 
or Dragon. 

743
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:29,900
It looks like they're going to 
show this person who love to 

744
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:31,700
fire dragon a lot. 
So it was set up. 

745
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:34,100
They didn't really continue with
that almost as if one of the 

746
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:37,400
things she lost over time was 
that freedom that youthfulness 

747
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,300
of having time to do that as 
responsibilities piled up and 

748
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:44,800
then, you know, war and death, 
good fun stuff. 

749
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,300
I also think a lot about 
logistics especially in like 

750
00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:50,900
fantasy environments and like 
the idea of the different ways 

751
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:53,500
dragons could have should have 
been used. 

752
00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:57,000
Just helping clear paths for 
roads to be built, you know, 

753
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,400
just like a straight blaze of 
fire to clear, forest or 

754
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,900
transferring information back 
and forth. 

755
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:06,900
And I could see reasons why 
maybe that's not as spectacular 

756
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:11,100
of a story to tell or why maybe 
even the who had dragons 

757
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:15,500
wouldn't lower themselves to 
those types of tasks but it's 

758
00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:19,100
the ability to get Battlefield 
information back and forth 

759
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:22,600
across the ocean. 
It's possible that it is part of

760
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,800
where the power of the The rains
and the targaryens came from 

761
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,900
even we don't see it on paper 
and it might be part of why 

762
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:31,500
their power starts to weigh in 
with the dragons go away, not 

763
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:34,500
just a military might but the 
ability to transfer information 

764
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:38,000
and materials people back and 
forth to me, it's like this 

765
00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:41,300
underlying story. 
This is hidden element that we 

766
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:44,000
don't see kind of like when you 
have armies gathered, where is 

767
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,500
everyone pooping? 
That we just don't get shown, 

768
00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:53,300
but it has to be dealt with see 
how Targaryen who, you know, 

769
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:55,900
strikes out on their own with 
their dragon and starts. 

770
00:38:55,900 --> 00:39:00,200
A landscaping was to be a little
more, utilitarian has something 

771
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,000
to start a business with it's 
called fire escaping, escaping. 

772
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:07,200
That's the thing. 
Like, I could totally see that 

773
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,400
having been a big part of how 
the kingsroad got built. 

774
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:13,900
Like, if you have a bunch of 
dragons and you have a giant 

775
00:39:13,900 --> 00:39:17,500
forest and you need to blaze a 
path through the forest, you 

776
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:21,800
could literally blaze a path 
through the forest and he's fine

777
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,900
where the road should go. 
Like, look from above and get a 

778
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,400
yeah. 
Like, there are so many creative

779
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,600
brownies from that. 
Make us tackle ways for them to 

780
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,100
use dragons because I'm 
imagining sort of like pipe it 

781
00:39:34,107 --> 00:39:36,500
because one thing we definitely 
get and I can't remember if this

782
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:40,200
is just in the show or if this 
also appears in Fire and Blood 

783
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,300
but it is specified that 
dragons. 

784
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:44,200
Do in fact travel faster than 
Ravens. 

785
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,100
So when you talk about the 
spread of information I said, if

786
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:52,500
you need to get a message from 
King's Landing to Winterfell and

787
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:56,300
you want it to be secret and you
wanted to get there fast. 

788
00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:59,600
What you do is you give the 
message to a dragon rider have 

789
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,400
them fly way high up so no one 
can see them land in Winterfell.

790
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,800
By the time people figure out 
there there, they've already 

791
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,700
delivered their message. 
Yeah, that's a good point. 

792
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:09,400
Yeah, absolutely. 
I like it. 

793
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,900
So, what do we think of mushroom
ever rode a dragon? 

794
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:14,500
Ha, ha. 
Good question. 

795
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:16,200
I don't know. 
I feel like he'd have mentioned 

796
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,200
it if he had. 
Yeah, it's a good. 

797
00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:18,900
A point. 
Yeah, that's a really good 

798
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:21,400
point. 
I want my my head Canon, he had 

799
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:33,600
if he was like this sex with a 
dragon, a dragon and that simply

800
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,200
wasn't one of the things in the 
testimony of mushroom that they 

801
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,600
chose fruit. 
Like includes is important to 

802
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,400
them. 
That is a really good point. 

803
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,300
We're not getting the testimony 
of mushroom. 

804
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:46,600
We are getting the excerpts from
the testimony of mushroom that 

805
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,200
gilding Decided to include. 
That's actually a really 

806
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,100
important thing to remember what
but for my purposes of this 

807
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:55,800
entire discussion which if Gil 
Dane had any instruction or 

808
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,500
awareness of what targets we 
want, maybe he would leave that 

809
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:00,400
out because it down plays the 
power of the targaryens. 

810
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,300
But if I wrote a dragon it would
be like a period like ever since

811
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:08,200
I wrote like and then we're 
narrow went to court and I wrote

812
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,100
a dragon at one time Damon said 
daughter Donna and I wrote a 

813
00:41:11,107 --> 00:41:14,100
dragon. 
I want to make sure everyone 

814
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:15,400
knew. 
There's like that. 

815
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,100
So you can write down all the 
dragons. 

816
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:20,500
II wrote on cracks. 
He's, I wrote on Cyrax, I wrote 

817
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:22,200
a name? 
The mute one? 

818
00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:27,600
Oh yeah, he named them. 
So, speaking of theories about 

819
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,200
mushroom, let's talk about this 
theory. 

820
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,200
About mushroom. 
Specifically, one of the best 

821
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,400
reasons to question the accounts
of mushroom, or the identity of 

822
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,100
mushroom begins with the fact 
that like we just said it, he 

823
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:40,500
didn't write it. 
You already have this degree of 

824
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:44,400
separation which enables the 
potential that well, this person

825
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,100
that actually wrote down was 
inserting their own Ideas here, 

826
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:51,700
and there on purpose or by 
accident or entirely that is, 

827
00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:54,500
perhaps Theory can go that far 
and the fact that we already 

828
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:56,900
discussed that this author isn't
even name. 

829
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,100
So, as you say that's not too 
unusual, but it certainly 

830
00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:04,200
doesn't remove any mystery, take
it away. 

831
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:08,400
So, I am going to make medieval 
a stroll in their graves by 

832
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,100
comparing mushroom to March 
recap, because this is how I 

833
00:42:11,107 --> 00:42:14,900
roll. 
So, Mark Tori, Kemp was a woman 

834
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:18,600
who lived a fairly unremarkable.
Middle-class life in King's 

835
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,400
Lynn, which is a mid-sized city 
in England in the early 15th 

836
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,600
century until at least, after 
giving birth to her 14th child. 

837
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,900
And please let us. 
This is unremarkable for that 

838
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:30,900
period. 
Yes. 

839
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:37,500
Okay, I'm shutter Marjorie had a
vision of the Virgin Mary due to

840
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:40,500
partly due to postpartum 
depression and rebranded herself

841
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:43,200
as a Mystic. 
Her life thereafter is actually 

842
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,800
very remarkable and the only 
reason that we know about it is 

843
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,300
that Hired a scribe to write it 
down. 

844
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:51,700
Many, many years later because 
she herself was illiterate. 

845
00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:55,800
She never learned how to read, 
but she was nonetheless, going 

846
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,400
around. 
She went on pilgrimage to 

847
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,700
Jerusalem, she went all over 
your, she went to Santiago de 

848
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:05,500
Compostela, she traveled on her 
own, which is unheard of for a 

849
00:43:05,508 --> 00:43:07,600
woman of her status, but she did
it. 

850
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,000
She did it because she was like,
you know, God told me to do it. 

851
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,900
And everyone just around her, 
just said, okay I guess God 

852
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:15,100
pulled. 
God told you to do that. 

853
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:16,300
So go ahead. 
Good luck. 

854
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,600
Except for the ones who Said she
was a heretic and tried to burn 

855
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,400
her at the stake, which is a 
whole separate thing. 

856
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,900
But the resulting manuscript 
that she produced after several 

857
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:26,900
tries, she actually mentions 
that she tried to get it written

858
00:43:26,900 --> 00:43:29,300
down once. 
But the Scribe did a really bad 

859
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:30,800
job? 
I'm not sure how she figured 

860
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,800
that out but described it a poor
job so she fired him and found a

861
00:43:33,808 --> 00:43:36,300
new one. 
But the resulting manuscript was

862
00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:39,200
after several centuries printed 
and published as the book of 

863
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,100
Margery Kemp and is generally 
regarded as the first 

864
00:43:42,100 --> 00:43:43,800
autobiography written in 
English. 

865
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,900
I have taught it three times and
all three times I had Least one 

866
00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:50,300
student asked me if she ingested
magic mushroom. 

867
00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:55,100
So far as I know. 
The answer is no, but they 

868
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:58,700
always ask and I always have to 
say, I'm pretty sure she did not

869
00:43:58,700 --> 00:44:02,200
ingest magical. 
Now, one of my favorite essays 

870
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,000
on Marjorie Kemp actually reads 
her work as a kind of fan 

871
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,400
fiction, and I encourage 
everyone to read it. 

872
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,700
It's a wonderful essay written 
by Anna Wilson. 

873
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:12,300
And we can link it in the show. 
I'll put it in the live stream 

874
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:16,100
chat for you all as well. 
Lovely, but on the flip side, we

875
00:44:16,100 --> 00:44:19,600
have a Oracle Chronicle from the
late 15th century that has 

876
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,600
generally been referred to by 
the name of the monastery, where

877
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,800
it was found when this, when 
some historians stumbled on it, 

878
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,600
in the 18th century and decided,
it might be useful for the 

879
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,400
current flame War over rather 
Richard. 

880
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,600
The third was a villain or just 
a nice man. 

881
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,400
This flavor has been happening 
for a really long time. 

882
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,000
It was happening in the 18th 
century. 

883
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,800
It is still going on much like 
the Shakespeare authorship 

884
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,700
circus that I refuse to dignify 
by calling it a controversial. 

885
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,600
But again, outside the scope of 
today's talk, The so-called 

886
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,300
second continuation of the Kroll
and Chronicle which is a great 

887
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:56,000
name was almost certainly 
written by a member of Edward 

888
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,000
the fourths privy Council which 
is kind of the equivalent of the

889
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,400
small Council of Westeros. 
It provides an intimate view of 

890
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,900
the death of King Edward and the
subsequent attempts to seize 

891
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:08,100
power from his teenage son that 
ultimately led to Edwards 

892
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:09,900
younger brother. 
Richard the third usurping, the 

893
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:13,000
throne, the author claims to 
have written the entire history.

894
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,200
Over a period of several weeks 
in the year 1485. 

895
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,400
And it was quiet. 
We incorporated into the 

896
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,100
official Chronicle of Kroll, and
Abby, but we do not actually 

897
00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:25,400
know who wrote it. 
The top candidate is Bishop. 

898
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,100
John Russell, who was an 
educated man, he may or may not 

899
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:31,300
have also been described in 
addition to the author, but this

900
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:33,600
particular history includes 
multiple incidents 

901
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,000
interpretations and elements 
that do not appear in any other 

902
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,000
contemporary sources, including 
my personal favorite which is 

903
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,600
the story of the future. 
Richard III's wife, lady, Anne 

904
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,000
Neville being hidden in a London
cookshop by her brother-in-law. 

905
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,600
George of Clarence. 
Assumably, so Richard could not 

906
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,400
find her and marry her. 
It's a great story, I love it 

907
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,300
but it has no other 
corroboration anywhere else. 

908
00:45:54,300 --> 00:45:56,900
Wow. 
But so many of the other things 

909
00:45:56,900 --> 00:45:59,800
in the Kroll and Chronicle do 
seem to be accurate. 

910
00:45:59,900 --> 00:46:04,600
So it may well have happened in 
one form or another which is all

911
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,400
to say that mushroom might not 
have existed at all. 

912
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,000
And that the testimony of 
mushroom as a text might have 

913
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,000
been written by someone or 
someone's under a pseudonym 

914
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,700
right on. 
Okay, Sean I see you have a 

915
00:46:15,707 --> 00:46:17,000
couple questions here. 
Let's go. 

916
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,300
To those. 
This is there's a lot here. 

917
00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:20,700
Well it's let's see if we can 
break some of that down. 

918
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:24,100
You get, I've forgotten more 
questions than I have, but one 

919
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:27,600
thing I wanted to bring up is 
isn't Socrates. 

920
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:29,900
There's some question as to 
whether he was even a real 

921
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:32,400
person, righty. 
It could just be the his stories

922
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,800
and teachings were a story that 
became the writings of Plato or 

923
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,700
Aristotle or whatever. 
And that his story actually is 

924
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:41,100
hard to prove. 
I thought that was a pretty 

925
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,800
clever Fringe Theory because 
he's a testament of him being in

926
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,000
certain battles here. 
Okay, okay, maybe it is French 

927
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,000
but But it's so lonely. 
I hear something it's hard for 

928
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,600
us to know the truth of right? 
Wait that so I think this is a 

929
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,600
kind of sort of game of 
telephone version of an actual 

930
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,500
Theory that's out there. 
This isn't so much. 

931
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:03,000
A theory as this weird medieval 
thing that happens supposedly in

932
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,800
the medieval period. 
There were loads of copies of a 

933
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:12,100
text that supposedly was 
Aristotle's, advice to Alexander

934
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:13,900
the Great. 
It was called The Sacred to 

935
00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:17,000
Sacred Torah. 
More The Secret Of Secrets we do

936
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,300
Do not know that, it was 
actually really written by 

937
00:47:19,300 --> 00:47:22,900
Aristotle or really written to 
Alexander the Great. 

938
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,800
But it was basically just a 
collection of advice for rulers.

939
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,900
It was the original one of the 
original kind of mirrors for 

940
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:31,700
princes and it probably had 
stuff that was from Aristotle. 

941
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:34,500
Probably had stuff that was from
Socrates, from Cicero, from 

942
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:37,500
late, like, all of this stuff 
kind of muddled together, but 

943
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,700
whoever put it together decided 
that they would get more 

944
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,800
Authority by claiming the entire
thing was written by our stomach

945
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:45,400
sense. 
Yeah. 

946
00:47:45,700 --> 00:47:49,500
So boosted We see similar things
happening in other texts. 

947
00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:52,500
Like, for instance, editing a 
book right now, that talks a lot

948
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:55,200
about Geoffrey of Monmouth 
Geoffrey of Monmouth was a 12th 

949
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,100
century historian writing in 
England. 

950
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,500
He is one of the earliest 
sources we have for King Arthur 

951
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,300
but the fact, is he claims to be
basing his text on an old 

952
00:48:06,300 --> 00:48:11,000
British book, no title, no 
author, no further information, 

953
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:15,400
just an old British book, who 
knows, was it? 

954
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,000
Real is Jeffrey making it all up
with. 

955
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:20,500
Getting it from oral sources, 
like we have no idea where he 

956
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:24,300
was getting his information. 
One thing when you're trying to 

957
00:48:24,308 --> 00:48:27,600
figure out where the historical 
texts come from is you look for 

958
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,900
corroboration someone said 
something. 

959
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:33,200
Well, it's a new world, say the 
same thing, or is it just them? 

960
00:48:33,700 --> 00:48:37,300
And I'm thinking for mushroom, 
there's got to be some pieces of

961
00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:38,900
that, right? 
There's some things that we kind

962
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:40,600
of know, were true but other 
things only. 

963
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,400
He said, there's a lot of 
reasons to believe that it might

964
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,500
have been someone else writing 
it or some collection of 

965
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:49,400
writings. 
So, that makes me wonder who 

966
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,900
might have done that. 
Is there, is there a candidate 

967
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:53,400
for who? 
We think mushroom might have 

968
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,700
been or who the person who 
collected, the, if it was like 

969
00:48:57,700 --> 00:48:59,700
multiple different people at 
different time, periods. 

970
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,700
All getting lumped into this 
mushroom character. 

971
00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:03,900
Who would have done? 
That one thing is there someone 

972
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:07,100
that we suspect her have a 
candidate to have been that 

973
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:12,200
person or the original whatever,
you know, I know who I would 

974
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,100
like it to be, I wanted to be 
Laris strong. 

975
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:23,700
Like I would love it if at least
some portion of it was like 

976
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,800
lares just writing down stuff. 
We know he knew a whole lot. 

977
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,400
New Downs of city had to have 
been keeping track of his 

978
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,800
information somehow. 
Yeah you don't just keep all of 

979
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,400
that in your head away to 
explain. 

980
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,300
Some of this knowledge would be 
listening through the walls 

981
00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:40,600
rather than being in the room as
well. 

982
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,300
So that that is the connect. 
That's another reason why he 

983
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:46,000
would fit whether there's, 
there's no direct evidence as 

984
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,300
you say, that's what you want. 
Like say it's he wanted to 

985
00:49:48,308 --> 00:49:52,000
because we can't all speculation
but I like I would have loved it

986
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,500
if it were that or in the 
alternative maybe it was Otto 

987
00:49:55,500 --> 00:50:01,700
Hightower secret free on auto 
Hightower writing his burn book 

988
00:50:01,700 --> 00:50:04,000
for remember which I guess 
brings up another question. 

989
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,000
What are the motivations to 
conceal? 

990
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,100
The author in the fur either? 
Maybe Sean was going to ask 

991
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,700
genda. 
Yeah, yeah yeah. 

992
00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:21,000
Someone who could possibly have 
gotten this information. 

993
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,600
You need to have someone who was
willing to take Innovation to 

994
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,500
write this information down and 
someone who would want to be 

995
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:32,800
secret or someone else who would
have wanted them to be kept 

996
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,700
secret or whatever? 
So and Lars seems like he could 

997
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:39,300
fit all those Auto maybe could 
fit all those one. 

998
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:40,700
Take care. 
By the way, from brandalynn 

999
00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:43,900
price in the chat, I thought 
making him a dwarf was a sort of

1000
00:50:43,908 --> 00:50:46,500
play on the small folk being 
behind it. 

1001
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:50,800
The idea that Small full who did
those interests lie like that 

1002
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:56,000
even things? 
We know in terms of real world 

1003
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,300
examples, given how much time 
this account covers, given how 

1004
00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:02,200
many different contradictory 
details are in there. 

1005
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,000
It may also have just been 
pulled together over time. 

1006
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,000
It may well have been like a 
bunch of different individual 

1007
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,500
accounts that were then compiled
into a single book and 

1008
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:15,500
eventually sort of circulated as
a single text. 

1009
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,300
I've thought a lot about that. 
To, but it could have been. 

1010
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:21,500
I mean, for the Bible kind of 
fits that except it was over 

1011
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:24,500
hundreds of years, this couldn't
have been over more than a 

1012
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:27,500
decade or two, right? 
Because it was Baylor, was only 

1013
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:29,500
like a generation later burning 
this book. 

1014
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:32,000
So it had to have been put 
together in a relatively short 

1015
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,400
period of time. 
But I would also say that we 

1016
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,300
don't what we see in Fire and 
Blood what was taken for 

1017
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:42,000
anything in Fire and Blood could
have been added. 

1018
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,900
Yes, decades later not within 
that. 

1019
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:46,900
Dang it, that's true. 
Whatever. 

1020
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:49,600
Sure did right. 
What people later on, right 

1021
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,700
about what he wrote could be 
even more like added on we also 

1022
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:55,300
with meaningfully or not. 
We also don't have Version 

1023
00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:57,400
Control. 
Like if someone is given a copy 

1024
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,800
of testimony of mushroom, after 
the era of Baylor's burning, it 

1025
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,300
could be edited from the 
original and they wouldn't know.

1026
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,200
Yes, it's the only copy 
translated that's the other 

1027
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,200
thing you could have like a 
Google translate effect going. 

1028
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,100
It was printed if it's not 
printed but if it was copied in 

1029
00:52:14,100 --> 00:52:17,300
essos, maybe it was written in 
Valyrian if it got copied Back 

1030
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:21,000
into the westerosi comment. 
Like it's there are so many ways

1031
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,300
because because you're dealing 
with the preprint era. 

1032
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,200
So to speak, there are so many 
ways for that text to get 

1033
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,500
altered and no one to have any 
idea that it has happened. 

1034
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,400
I had one other thought I'm not 
knowledgeable enough about the 

1035
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,500
details to call this a theory, 
even, but just an idea, I wonder

1036
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:45,000
if mushroom could have been Like
the dread pirate Roberts. 

1037
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,300
It could have been different 
people over time. 

1038
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,100
The dread pirate, could have 
been in two places. 

1039
00:52:50,100 --> 00:52:52,600
At the same time it was like a 
role if they're in some costume 

1040
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,600
and makeup and are just a role 
and not one person. 

1041
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,100
But roll this being played, is 
that a possibility for this 

1042
00:53:00,100 --> 00:53:02,300
mushroom character? 
And could that also explain how 

1043
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:04,100
sometimes he knows things, he 
shouldn't? 

1044
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:07,100
Because he wasn't there? 
Well, maybe he was there, if it 

1045
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:10,600
was probably not the physical 
and because he's three feet tall

1046
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,100
and all that might be hard to. 
Yeah, probably not physically. 

1047
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,100
But if we assume like because 
think about varus for instance 

1048
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:19,100
think about varus in the 
original series. 

1049
00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:22,800
He is also extremely 
non-threatening at least in 

1050
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:27,200
terms of physical presence, but 
he knows everything not because 

1051
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,100
of not necessarily because of 
things he himself overhears but 

1052
00:53:30,100 --> 00:53:32,700
because he has this enormous 
network of spies. 

1053
00:53:32,700 --> 00:53:35,200
One of the the other thing you 
could think about in terms of 

1054
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,400
mushroom is he's not necessarily
the person who is witnessing all

1055
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,600
of these things, but he is the 
person who is gathering all of 

1056
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,600
this information. 
Nation okay. 

1057
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,900
Yeah, we're as he mentioned 
earlier like hearing things with

1058
00:53:47,900 --> 00:53:50,300
the walls. 
He might get stories from the 

1059
00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:54,300
kingsguard like King's guards 
standing they hear something and

1060
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:55,500
they might not even tell 
mushroom. 

1061
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:57,300
They just might talk to each 
other about it. 

1062
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:59,100
But mushroom over here is it 
they under plan? 

1063
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,500
They don't even notice the 
opening there. 

1064
00:54:00,500 --> 00:54:01,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1065
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,600
I still want to I'm holding out 
for the potential twin doors. 

1066
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,600
Pretend that there are real 
pills. 

1067
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,900
Oh my God. 
But yeah, in terms of kind of 

1068
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:21,700
real world examples for this 
there, I know there's the I keep

1069
00:54:21,700 --> 00:54:24,200
coming back to Richard the third
but it's a great example because

1070
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,000
there's so much kind of mess 
around it and so much ambiguity.

1071
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:31,500
So there's another account this 
is written by an Italian. 

1072
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:33,800
It's written in Latin. 
It's addressed to a bishop who 

1073
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,200
lives in Paris, and it's 
incredibly important because he 

1074
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,400
was this guy was physically and 
he was physically present in 

1075
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,200
London at the time when this 
usurpation took face. 

1076
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,300
So he could have been present 
for any number of the things 

1077
00:54:46,300 --> 00:54:49,400
that actually happened. 
But he doesn't have any close 

1078
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,100
connections to the royal family.
So a lot of what he's reporting 

1079
00:54:52,100 --> 00:54:54,700
may actually have been rumors 
rather than a factual events. 

1080
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:58,000
He also admits at several points
that his English is not very 

1081
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,200
good, which is not surprising 
for an Italian cleric who was 

1082
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,300
writing in Latin who had mostly 
have been either speaking in 

1083
00:55:04,300 --> 00:55:06,500
Latin or speaking. 
In Italian, again with the 

1084
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:09,700
testimony of mushroom. 
What we might be dealing with is

1085
00:55:09,700 --> 00:55:13,000
a text that was sort of pulled 
together. 

1086
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:14,900
From a bunch of different 
sources. 

1087
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,500
It could even have been sort of 
mushroom writing down things he 

1088
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:22,300
heard and eventually deciding at
the end of his life. 

1089
00:55:22,300 --> 00:55:25,600
Oh, I think I'll just sort of 
pull all this stuff together. 

1090
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,500
It may not even have been stuff 
that he personally knew about. 

1091
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:31,400
It was just stuff that he heard.
Hmm. 

1092
00:55:32,100 --> 00:55:34,100
I want to point out just because
it's a rumor, doesn't mean it's 

1093
00:55:34,100 --> 00:55:39,600
not true, it's not true. 
So again though, I guess there's

1094
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,300
certain ones where we can look 
and say, okay, this this makes 

1095
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:48,400
sense as a Why would be said to 
weaken the lineage of rhaenyra 

1096
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,200
or Damon or that or the blacks 
general? 

1097
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,300
What what are some of the maybe 
specific things that would tie 

1098
00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:57,600
this to maybe Auto or Lawry's? 
If you can think of any angles 

1099
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,000
to it or even if you have 
specific examples that would be 

1100
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,600
good or to troubleshoot the 
theory, anything that would 

1101
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,100
remove the possibility of being 
laros or Auto? 

1102
00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:08,500
Sure. 
Well, I mean, obviously, the big

1103
00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:12,600
thing that the big Point against
either Lara's or Auto Hightower 

1104
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,100
is that they I died before the 
narrative ends. 

1105
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:18,900
That's true, so that's 
important. 

1106
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:23,900
I dread pirate Roberts is there 
and also be just the general 

1107
00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:26,700
multiple authors theory that 
maybe they were responsible for 

1108
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:29,300
some of it but not all of it. 
Yeah, because my, as you said 

1109
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:31,800
mushroom, not only out lives 
pretty much everyone, he 

1110
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,200
outlives them by a long time. 
Mikey Outlet, does he out? 

1111
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,800
He lives beyond the reign of 
Baal or even which is like yeah,

1112
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,300
like 40 years after the dance 
for 30 years after the dance 

1113
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:43,900
world. 
Rana Baylor, begins 30 years 

1114
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:45,500
after dance and ends 40 years 
after. 

1115
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,700
Yeah. 
So really, it's hard to imagine,

1116
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:52,300
like, even if one person did 
live that long, which they could

1117
00:56:52,300 --> 00:56:54,900
have, it's absolutely possible 
for someone to live that long. 

1118
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,200
But it's also just as possible 
that he was that whoever it was 

1119
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,600
that compiled, all of these 
things together whether or not 

1120
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:07,200
it was mushroom. 
The person might have just been 

1121
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:09,900
collecting all of these 
different pieces of information 

1122
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:11,900
in. 
Like there were what are called 

1123
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,100
Commonplace books in this 
period. 

1124
00:57:14,100 --> 00:57:17,700
And what a commonplace book was 
was essentially. 

1125
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:21,900
People would find bits of texts 
that they found compelling and 

1126
00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:24,100
bear for various reasons, 
whether it was for religious 

1127
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:26,900
reasons, moral reasons, what 
have you and they would just 

1128
00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:29,400
write them down in excerpt form 
in these books. 

1129
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,500
And so, you'll find these books 
that have poems and Snippets of 

1130
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:37,500
Chronicles, and bits of Cicero 
and just no real. 

1131
00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:40,000
Rhyme or Reason for what. 
I all these texts are put 

1132
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,100
together but One. 
Fouled them interesting. 

1133
00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:46,100
Someone put him in a category 
that we can't discern. 

1134
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,000
Yeah, it was like a journal. 
Yeah. 

1135
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:49,500
Oh yeah. 
I've got looks like that. 

1136
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:52,400
Let me correct myself real 
quick. 

1137
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,100
We don't know that mushroom 
lived through the reign of Baal 

1138
00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:59,000
or we know he outlived egg on 
the third who died, only four 

1139
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,800
years before the reign of Baal 
or began. 

1140
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,800
So he probably was at least 
alive during the reign of 

1141
00:58:02,808 --> 00:58:04,100
Baylor. 
He may not have made it all the 

1142
00:58:04,100 --> 00:58:07,200
way through maybe hearing it. 
His book was burned as what he 

1143
00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:10,600
he gave, he died after his ago. 
My heart my book. 

1144
00:58:11,100 --> 00:58:14,000
I've been burned. 
The copies except for one. 

1145
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,500
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1146
00:58:17,500 --> 00:58:20,200
So speaking of that, you 
mentioned that one possibility 

1147
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,700
for the book surviving is that? 
Yeah, there were copies that 

1148
00:58:22,700 --> 00:58:25,900
went over seats that and then 
they just made their way back 

1149
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:29,500
like Baylor couldn't have gotten
his hands on those and probably 

1150
00:58:29,500 --> 00:58:32,500
wouldn't have gone into that 
much effort to find them, you 

1151
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:36,200
know, maybe some of the others, 
like the Jade compendium or 

1152
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,100
something like that. 
You might have cared more about 

1153
00:58:38,100 --> 00:58:41,000
that but I'm guessing. 
Mushroom wasn't His Highest 

1154
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,000
priority, but maybe it Like we 
said, if it was about protecting

1155
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,100
certain family images, maybe I 
maybe he did care, maybe he was 

1156
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:53,900
really embarrassed by his 
grandmother or is Grandparents 

1157
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:56,500
or any of those those who came 
before him. 

1158
00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:58,500
He certainly was a different 
sort. 

1159
00:58:58,500 --> 00:59:00,800
Let's see, I guess we can take 
our break here. 

1160
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,500
We've got a few questions. 
Let's take these questions and 

1161
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,700
say hello to our sponsor. 
Then we'll get back with the 

1162
00:59:05,900 --> 00:59:09,700
little more specific takes from 
the testimony of mushroom, as 

1163
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:11,800
well as what will have saved for
the end. 

1164
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:16,700
And which is his best funniest 
moments is quips and have some 

1165
00:59:16,700 --> 00:59:18,700
good fun with that. 
Wisdom of mushroom? 

1166
00:59:18,700 --> 00:59:22,900
Yes, exactly. 
A couple of from a jazz 

1167
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:26,000
holgersson do not forget the 
Irish wristwatch. 

1168
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:26,500
Okay. 
Yeah. 

1169
00:59:26,500 --> 00:59:29,300
It has been a little while since
we've done the Irish wristwatch.

1170
00:59:29,300 --> 00:59:33,100
Are you prepared for this? 
I'll give it a try. 

1171
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:35,800
Okay? 
If said three times in a row 13 

1172
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:44,200
times 5 Watch Irish wristwatch. 
Irish wristwatch. 

1173
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,400
Hey. 
Very good. 

1174
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,500
Yes, that theater training 
better than me better than you 

1175
00:59:49,500 --> 00:59:50,200
do it. 
Sean! 

1176
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,800
Come on! 
Irish wristwatch! 

1177
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:57,900
Irish wristwatch, Irish 
wristwatch, Irish rushed to that

1178
00:59:57,900 --> 00:59:59,100
first time. 
Going to slow. 

1179
00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:03,900
Yeah, no, actually, I'll for 
out. 

1180
01:00:03,900 --> 01:00:07,000
Is easier to Irish wristwatch. 
Irish wristwatch. 

1181
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,100
Irish wristwatch. 
OK, Myra. 

1182
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:11,100
She's been practicing. 
Irish wristwatch. 

1183
01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:12,900
Irish wristwatch. 
Ouch Irish wristwatch. 

1184
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:15,900
Hey that's good. 
Great I think. 

1185
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:19,100
Okay, thank you for that. 
We're too good to get the proper

1186
01:00:19,100 --> 01:00:22,600
humor out of. 
Yeah we failed by getting it 

1187
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,300
right mr. 
Ho yo te says who's your 

1188
01:00:26,300 --> 01:00:30,300
favorite plantagenet King dr. 
Evita oh tough call. 

1189
01:00:30,300 --> 01:00:32,700
Oh my goodness. 
They're all like, it depends on.

1190
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:35,100
Who is my fate? 
Like if you want to know who my 

1191
01:00:35,100 --> 01:00:38,800
favorite trade wreck plantagenet
King is or who my favorite. 

1192
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,400
Like I think they were actually,
okay. 

1193
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,600
Plantagenet A lot of questions. 
Like who's the most interesting?

1194
01:00:45,100 --> 01:00:48,200
It was like, the most, like, 
likable, like the money. 

1195
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,200
I like the most. 
I mean, one of my favorites to 

1196
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,300
read up my food, probably, one 
of my favorites to read about is

1197
01:00:54,300 --> 01:00:57,600
Edward the Fourth because he 
was, he had so much potential 

1198
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,500
and it all just went out the 
window. 

1199
01:01:01,900 --> 01:01:05,000
What key started off and he was 
all like, he was doing really, 

1200
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,600
really well. 
And then he had the dubious 

1201
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,200
distinction of being the only 
English Monarch to get Kicked 

1202
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,500
out of his kingdom and then come
back and then rule for another 

1203
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:19,600
15 years or not 15 years, 13 
years only to die of, presumably

1204
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:24,900
some combination of alcoholism 
and just who knows what hardly. 

1205
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:28,900
But he yeah, he's the Robert 
Baratheon kind of King except 

1206
01:01:28,900 --> 01:01:33,100
that he was reasonably. 
Good administratively at least 

1207
01:01:33,100 --> 01:01:37,000
up to a point and he gets extra 
points for being a patron of 

1208
01:01:37,008 --> 01:01:39,500
William caxton. 
The first, the first guy to open

1209
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:41,800
a printing, press in England. 
Nice. 

1210
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,400
Yeah, he's probably one of my 
favorites to read about just 

1211
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:48,400
because his life is Stranger 
Than Fiction, like everything 

1212
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,100
that happens to him. 
Is completely unbelievable. 

1213
01:01:51,100 --> 01:01:53,000
You do not like you. 
Look at that. 

1214
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,200
You're like, what, why? 
How are you real? 

1215
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,800
But he was, and it's very 
bizarre. 

1216
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,200
And I feel like he got short 
shrift from Shakespeare because 

1217
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:02,900
Shakespeare wanted to write 
about his younger brother. 

1218
01:02:04,500 --> 01:02:07,300
Stupid Minotaur says, have you 
seen the invisible mushroom 

1219
01:02:07,300 --> 01:02:10,400
theory that mushroom is in the 
show but he's overlooked. 

1220
01:02:10,700 --> 01:02:12,800
My theory was that. 
He's just off camera. 

1221
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,300
He's just too short and yeah, 
I'd see him. 

1222
01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:17,800
But he's just always off camera 
which had at the very very end. 

1223
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,000
They're going to turn around. 
It'll be, it was me, it is 

1224
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,400
fitting given that he's, he is 
kind of overlooked and or maybe 

1225
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,600
didn't exist. 
So I kind of like the thing Left

1226
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,000
it open. 
He could be just below the lower

1227
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,700
end of what the camera is 
picking up, or behind a door, 

1228
01:02:34,700 --> 01:02:37,500
listening, or behind the table 
or behind the behind Chris. 

1229
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:39,300
He's always right behind 
criston, Cole. 

1230
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,000
You just can't. 
Hey, it's the ape is really 

1231
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,200
flowing. 
Yeah, Tristan Cole's the twins 

1232
01:02:46,700 --> 01:02:48,100
twin. 
It's mushrooms. 

1233
01:02:58,300 --> 01:03:00,600
A pair of comments here from 
dornish Dame. 

1234
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,000
And Julie, a who said, first 
orange name, certainly, the 

1235
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,300
targaryens would have had a lot 
of servants, who might not be 

1236
01:03:07,300 --> 01:03:10,700
literate, but could have had 
their stories transcribed and 

1237
01:03:10,700 --> 01:03:13,800
servants here a lot. 
And then Julie agreed and said 

1238
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,900
that, this does seem like the 
gossip of domestic staff and 

1239
01:03:16,900 --> 01:03:19,700
multiple people reporting and 
transcribing. 

1240
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,700
All could mean that mushroom did
exist. 

1241
01:03:23,900 --> 01:03:26,600
But it was also well, I mean, it
could be both. 

1242
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:27,800
I could be the, yes, there was 
no mushroom. 

1243
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,700
Mushroom is just the staff or it
could be that mushroom was one 

1244
01:03:30,700 --> 01:03:34,400
of many people who were serving 
like that is what mushroom was. 

1245
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,100
He was effectively a servant 
with in there, right? 

1246
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:40,000
Maybe gossip with all the others
and got all this info and then, 

1247
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,800
yeah, he was the source for it. 
Yeah. 

1248
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,200
Or again, and again, not to like
bring up the lhari strong. 

1249
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,900
Feel like even if mushroom was 
real, there could be that 

1250
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:52,300
mushroom reported to Lori's and 
Lori's compiled, a bunch of 

1251
01:03:52,300 --> 01:03:55,300
mushrooms, thoughts and a bunch 
of it like or Lars use them as a

1252
01:03:55,308 --> 01:03:57,700
cat's paws like this. 
He's like, there's a way to 

1253
01:03:57,700 --> 01:03:59,100
yeah. 
Voice it on someone else, 

1254
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:00,700
they're not all mutually 
expensive. 

1255
01:04:00,700 --> 01:04:02,800
As my, yes, the more, I think 
about it. 

1256
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,800
I think it probably is a 
collection of multiple people 

1257
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,500
stories, including mushrooms and
whoever put the collection 

1258
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:10,500
together, which also might have 
been multiple people, put it all

1259
01:04:10,500 --> 01:04:13,600
under mushrooms name because 
he's someone, it wouldn't be 

1260
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,600
gone after right? 
That people like, you know, they

1261
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,900
wouldn't think he had some 
Sinister intent. 

1262
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,500
A Sonet. 
People would believe could have 

1263
01:04:21,500 --> 01:04:25,200
been present, would have this 
knowledge, Etc, etc' Zoo 

1264
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,600
scapegoats. 
Quite the right word but yeah. 

1265
01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:30,800
Ever, you know, cover story like
Horace doesn't want to get his 

1266
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,100
spies caught so he's not going 
to use their names. 

1267
01:04:33,100 --> 01:04:35,000
He doesn't want to get this 
staff in trouble. 

1268
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,300
He doesn't, you know, he doesn't
want to implicate certain people

1269
01:04:37,300 --> 01:04:39,400
or limit his ability to use his 
spies. 

1270
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,800
So yeah, mushroom did it. 
Yeah, this is a sense. 

1271
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:45,200
Since some were mushroom makes 
it easier to believe this. 

1272
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,100
Mushroom would have been 
president for these things, it's

1273
01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:49,100
on and on. 
Yeah, I'm getting more and more 

1274
01:04:49,100 --> 01:04:53,400
certain I like when I do 
re-firing below, we plan on 

1275
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,400
doing a read of be read for you 
guys and obviously, you mean, 

1276
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,600
it's definitely To be like on 
the top of my brain, as I go 

1277
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:02,200
through I'm going to be on 
mushroom watch. 

1278
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,500
Yeah, of mushroom. 
My whole brain to be on mushroom

1279
01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:08,600
line because I like my most 
recent reread of Fire and Blood 

1280
01:05:08,700 --> 01:05:11,100
which was right before House of 
the Dragon came out because I 

1281
01:05:11,107 --> 01:05:13,000
was kind of curious to see what 
they were doing. 

1282
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,700
My most recent reread, I just 
kept looking for references to 

1283
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:20,800
mushroom that were not made by 
mushroom himself and I did not 

1284
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:22,000
find any. 
Hmm. 

1285
01:05:23,100 --> 01:05:26,300
Yeah. 
I never, I never used to serve 

1286
01:05:26,300 --> 01:05:28,700
anyone who was like and then, 
man, then And mushroom was 

1287
01:05:28,700 --> 01:05:29,800
observed to do that. 
Yeah. 

1288
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,800
It was all yeah. 
Shrooms that mushroom did this. 

1289
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,000
He did this and that it would 
make sense if you still had 

1290
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,000
mentioned mushroom. 
It also makes sense that he 

1291
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,200
didn't and of course used as 
couldn't refer to the testimony 

1292
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:41,800
of mushroom because the 
testimony of mushroom was 

1293
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,000
written was not well later than 
used as his accountant useless 

1294
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,900
would have been and like that 
Eustace might have mentioned 

1295
01:05:48,900 --> 01:05:51,600
Mushroom in a section of the 
text that we don't get. 

1296
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:55,300
We are getting excerpts from 
both gildea and and from both 

1297
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:59,500
Eustace and mushroom through Gil
Dane Means that there are entire

1298
01:05:59,500 --> 01:06:01,300
sections of the text that we 
cannot see. 

1299
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,700
I wonder how George would react 
to being that having that 

1300
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:05,000
question. 
Put games did much is our 

1301
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,700
chance, mushroom wasn't a real 
person. 

1302
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:09,100
Yeah, I think I really want 
someone. 

1303
01:06:09,100 --> 01:06:12,500
I will tell you that I will 
absolutely at the next Q&A. 

1304
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,100
Ask him that question, but it 
has to be phrased. 

1305
01:06:15,100 --> 01:06:17,600
Exactly, right. 
Figure out a good for has to be 

1306
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,500
the perfect phrasing because 
he'll you. 

1307
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:20,900
Yeah. 
You know you've listened to many

1308
01:06:20,900 --> 01:06:23,600
qas over. 
He's real wildly with it. 

1309
01:06:23,700 --> 01:06:26,400
Yeah, it was great. 
I mean I had a good for him but 

1310
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:27,900
like yeah we definitely got to 
be real clear. 

1311
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:31,200
Here, with what we're asking. 
I hope it's a left-field enough 

1312
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:32,700
question. 
He's like, what what? 

1313
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:33,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1314
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,000
And you would, hey, why are you 
thinking then? 

1315
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,000
That would pretty much kill the 
idea that we would, at least 

1316
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:37,700
know that. 
Yeah. 

1317
01:06:38,900 --> 01:06:40,000
But sometimes you might be like,
what? 

1318
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:41,200
Why? 
But then he might still do the 

1319
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:50,600
thing where he's strokes and do 
some Q&A questions actually. 

1320
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:55,300
Because that would be very proud
if this man if somehow this 

1321
01:06:55,300 --> 01:06:57,900
Collective managed to inspire 
George to the side. 

1322
01:07:00,100 --> 01:07:03,500
If you got some chin Strokes out
of it, I can very proud. 

1323
01:07:03,500 --> 01:07:05,500
I want to put that on my resume 
so fire it. 

1324
01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:07,300
George armor. 
I got George r.r., Martin, 

1325
01:07:07,300 --> 01:07:12,100
stroke his job. 
All right with that. 

1326
01:07:12,100 --> 01:07:14,200
Lets you know, go ahead. 
Try to say real quick. 

1327
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,900
We have a friend who made this 
very extensive thorough timeline

1328
01:07:18,900 --> 01:07:20,400
of the. 
Oh yeah. 

1329
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,700
Alex and he brought it to ice 
and fire kind of like unfold. 

1330
01:07:25,700 --> 01:07:27,800
It's like I don't know 10 or 15 
feet long. 

1331
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,200
Long, you know, like it's like 3
feet by 20 feet or something. 

1332
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,200
But anyway, I want to get him to
make a timeline of mushrooms, 

1333
01:07:37,100 --> 01:07:39,700
all the times, he was supposedly
present for all the people who 

1334
01:07:39,700 --> 01:07:42,400
would have reference him, who 
can suss something out from a 

1335
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:46,800
visual extended timeline 
galaxies are out there. 

1336
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:51,000
Listening also, I should give a 
shout out. 

1337
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:55,600
One of our Twitter followers of 
Lana Del Rey Nira recommended I 

1338
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:59,300
add a blue phoria Urban mate. 
He to my usual. 

1339
01:07:59,300 --> 01:08:04,000
Mix of blueberry, bang and 
protein, Naked drink and such. 

1340
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,000
So I just wanted to let you 
know, I did it and it's good. 

1341
01:08:08,500 --> 01:08:11,400
I tried to drink our mate is 
caught as a coffee substitute 

1342
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,100
for a while, but it's just not 
strong enough but it is 

1343
01:08:14,300 --> 01:08:16,399
healthier. 
I think, well, maybe no. 

1344
01:08:16,899 --> 01:08:19,000
I'm, I just finished my third 
cough. 

1345
01:08:20,899 --> 01:08:23,600
Yeah, I'm, I'm working on 12. 
I usually make it at home, but I

1346
01:08:23,608 --> 01:08:26,100
had to drop someone at the 
airport, so you know, be it's 

1347
01:08:26,100 --> 01:08:27,800
pure sugar. 
This is not coffee. 

1348
01:08:27,899 --> 01:08:29,600
At all. 
It's just it's just basically my

1349
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,000
morning milkshake that I've got.
That's a greater sugars. 

1350
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,800
Are no chocolate in it, that's 
chocolate, but that mean, it's 

1351
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:36,300
okay. 
Okay. 

1352
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:39,100
There you go. 
Yeah, I'd mocha yesterday. 

1353
01:08:40,399 --> 01:08:44,100
Regular coffee today, a great 
segue to our sponsor smile, 

1354
01:08:44,100 --> 01:08:48,399
brilliant. 
It goes to show how much we need

1355
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:51,899
to take care of our teeth when 
we're in bobbing 30-plus ounce 

1356
01:08:51,899 --> 01:08:56,000
drinks with that stain. 
Your teeth with coffee and Moco 

1357
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:57,899
or do damage to them with all 
the sugar. 

1358
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,899
I mean, let's be honest. 
It's great to have a sponsor 

1359
01:09:01,899 --> 01:09:05,300
that you don't have to shop at 
smile Burly and I recommend them

1360
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:08,500
heavily, but we all need to buy 
stuff for our teeth. 

1361
01:09:08,500 --> 01:09:11,200
So you may as well save money 
when doing it, you may as well 

1362
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,000
buy it from people that 
specialize in it and you may as 

1363
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,700
well, do it with someone that's 
sponsoring, you know, us and can

1364
01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:22,600
you help us? 
Ends of rising tide lifts all 

1365
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,600
boats. 
So smile brilliant.com, you get 

1366
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,899
20% off its code, Westeros you 
might even save more, sometimes 

1367
01:09:27,899 --> 01:09:31,000
they have site-wide sales, our 
code will add to that. 

1368
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,600
And they have a full line of 
products, whether it's the 

1369
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,800
advanced stuff like Teeth 
Whitening pretty important. 

1370
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,100
We drink as much coffee as I do 
or just regular day-to-day care 

1371
01:09:41,100 --> 01:09:43,899
which pretty important you drink
as much coffee as I do. 

1372
01:09:44,700 --> 01:09:48,500
And with as much chocolate as I 
put in it, or things in between 

1373
01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:52,399
like, managing, grinding your 
teeth, Teeth or more infrequent 

1374
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:54,500
use items rather than day-to-day
stuff. 

1375
01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:57,000
So they have the whole Suite, 
everything you might need. 

1376
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,900
Get it all at one place. 
All the ones. 

1377
01:09:58,900 --> 01:10:02,200
Take care of it together, rather
than here and there, just knock 

1378
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,700
it off the list, 20% off at 
smile, brand.com, using the code

1379
01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:08,000
Westeros. 
Don't, I can tell a difference 

1380
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,900
in disease is teeth. 
Certainly yeah, they're 

1381
01:10:10,900 --> 01:10:13,500
absolutely wider. 
Sure, I'm happy. 

1382
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:22,500
There are ugly before Did it 
have white teeth, but I'm like, 

1383
01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:24,700
oh, they're a little wider right
on? 

1384
01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:27,900
Yeah, it's anyway, let's move on
to the actual testimony of 

1385
01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:32,100
mushroom. 
Here's a good example of one 

1386
01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:35,800
particular passage from it that 
will kick off this next set of 

1387
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:39,000
discussions. 
It was only a few mins later it.

1388
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,700
Damon was exiled. 
As for the reason, our sources 

1389
01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:44,800
differ greatly some, such as 
ruin sitter and Monken. 

1390
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,700
Suggest the king viserys and 
Kingdom and quarreled for 

1391
01:10:47,700 --> 01:10:49,700
Brotherly. 
Love, rarely stands in the way 

1392
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:52,300
of disagreements. 
That is why Damon left of the 

1393
01:10:52,300 --> 01:10:55,600
say that it was Allison at 
Serratos prompting, possibly Who

1394
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,200
convinced viserys the Damon must
leave but to speak more fully on

1395
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:02,000
the matter ceptin. 
Eustace has the reign of King 

1396
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,700
bucerias, first of his name and 
the dance of dragons that came 

1397
01:11:05,700 --> 01:11:08,900
after was written by the septon 
after the war came to its in. 

1398
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,700
So dry and ponderous in his 
writings use, this was clearly a

1399
01:11:12,700 --> 01:11:16,200
confidant of the targaryens and 
speaks accurately of many things

1400
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:18,700
mushrooms. 
The testimony of mushroom is 

1401
01:11:18,700 --> 01:11:23,000
another matter. 
How So the first part is a good 

1402
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,600
example where we have a lot of 
sources weighing in, and that's 

1403
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,100
just interesting all together. 
When we have something that's 

1404
01:11:28,100 --> 01:11:29,900
corroborated by a bunch of 
different sources that by 

1405
01:11:29,900 --> 01:11:31,000
itself, makes it really 
interesting. 

1406
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,300
Mushroom was not a confidant so 
much as he was someone whom they

1407
01:11:34,300 --> 01:11:37,500
didn't mind talking around. 
Like, he just heard things 

1408
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:41,400
supposedly and also perhaps 
someone who embellish quite a 

1409
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,100
bit, but this is a, why not both
something we're going to, we've 

1410
01:11:44,100 --> 01:11:46,400
been running into a lot already 
and we're going to continue to 

1411
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,700
run in through where it could be
a made-up. 

1412
01:11:49,700 --> 01:11:51,900
It could be. 
Supplementary. 

1413
01:11:51,900 --> 01:11:54,600
Like we hear two things that 
don't actually contradict each 

1414
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:58,600
other, but neither corroborates,
the other both could be true. 

1415
01:11:58,700 --> 01:12:01,800
So we have a lot of why not both
examples coming up here. 

1416
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,800
Mushroom has access that the 
septons and Masters don't 

1417
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:07,600
necessarily have. 
But he also has reasons to 

1418
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,200
embellish because he's an 
Entertainer, he's a Corfu, like 

1419
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,700
his job. 
His attitude towards life is to 

1420
01:12:12,700 --> 01:12:15,100
entertain and make people laugh.
But wouldn't it? 

1421
01:12:15,100 --> 01:12:19,400
Also be true Kavita that 
historical records have arguably

1422
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:23,400
even more pressures. 
To be dishonest or to protect 

1423
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:28,300
deeper darker Secrets, something
that like will this entertain? 

1424
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:33,500
Is I think a lot less corrupt 
than who is this going to harm 

1425
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:38,900
or am I going to die? 
If I write this and again it's 

1426
01:12:38,900 --> 01:12:43,900
one of those where could be both
because history depending on the

1427
01:12:43,900 --> 01:12:45,800
kind of historical account 
you're reading. 

1428
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,200
It was also intended for 
entertainment. 

1429
01:12:48,500 --> 01:12:52,300
I mean Shakespeare claims Is 
that a number of historical? 

1430
01:12:52,300 --> 01:12:54,600
Monarchs were sleeping around 
when they may, or may not have 

1431
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,200
actually been doing that. 
And that was in a stage play 

1432
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,600
which was obviously not academic
history. 

1433
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:05,000
But the pervasiveness of the 
stories that come out of 

1434
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,900
Shakespeare's history plays, you
can't deny that people thought, 

1435
01:13:08,900 --> 01:13:11,300
Richard the third was a 
hunchback for many many years 

1436
01:13:11,300 --> 01:13:13,400
before it was actually proven. 
He had scoliosis. 

1437
01:13:13,900 --> 01:13:15,500
Wow. 
So that's so which is you could 

1438
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:18,100
see where that came was an 
exaggeration of the truth and 

1439
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:21,400
embellishment rather than strict
act or even and Understanding 

1440
01:13:21,500 --> 01:13:23,100
okay. 
Yeah maybe maybe an honest 

1441
01:13:23,100 --> 01:13:25,400
misunderstanding. 
Except that in that all the 

1442
01:13:25,407 --> 01:13:27,800
historians that oh he's a 
hunchback and automatically that

1443
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:33,000
makes them evil. 
So there you go. 

1444
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,600
Yeah, the old tropes, they have 
tropes mix into which is part of

1445
01:13:35,608 --> 01:13:39,100
what you're saying, like, even 
history has tropes, which is 

1446
01:13:39,100 --> 01:13:41,000
part of where your come. 
When you say, well, it's meant 

1447
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,000
to entertain or it's meant to be
an entertaining, which that's 

1448
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:44,100
something that really resonates 
with me. 

1449
01:13:44,100 --> 01:13:47,400
Because I love reading history, 
I do find it entertaining, so, 

1450
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,600
that's like a bad point. 
This is very straightforward and

1451
01:13:50,700 --> 01:13:53,900
In a lot of ways. 
Basically 16th century 

1452
01:13:53,900 --> 01:13:57,100
historians use literary tropes 
was my PhD thesis. 

1453
01:13:57,700 --> 01:13:59,300
Wow. 
In a nutshell, you know, this 

1454
01:13:59,300 --> 01:14:01,800
one particularly well, it's like
they used literary tropes to 

1455
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:03,800
talk about women because they 
didn't know how to talk about 

1456
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:05,300
with. 
Like one of the most common ones

1457
01:14:05,300 --> 01:14:09,200
is perhaps the evil stepmother 
Trope, which we see that's like 

1458
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:13,300
that one's super old and it 
George uses it. 

1459
01:14:13,300 --> 01:14:18,200
I mean, alicent is the evil 
stepmother, in a lot of ways in 

1460
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,300
Fire and Blood less. 
So, and how's the dragon? 

1461
01:14:20,300 --> 01:14:23,700
Because General, she's not that 
evil, maybe and much younger. 

1462
01:14:23,700 --> 01:14:26,500
So, she doesn't really fill the 
Trope in that regard either. 

1463
01:14:26,900 --> 01:14:29,800
Again, I haven't read Fire and 
Blood, but just trying to 

1464
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:33,900
clarify or be fair about the 
state of things is George using 

1465
01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:37,100
that Trope or is mushroom. 
And your he's I think he's 

1466
01:14:37,100 --> 01:14:39,700
having them his characters to 
it, but otherwise. 

1467
01:14:39,700 --> 01:14:44,400
Yeah, it's the the layer it's 
talking about Fire and Blood is 

1468
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,500
complicated because on the one 
hand, if you're talking about it

1469
01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:50,500
in the out of universe sent, 
George is the author. 

1470
01:14:50,500 --> 01:14:54,200
He's He's the only author and 
what he's doing within the 

1471
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:58,700
universe is trying to create 
this multi vocal text which is 

1472
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,200
actually very difficult to do. 
And I find that one of the 

1473
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:04,400
reasons why I really love Fire 
and Blood. 

1474
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,200
Despite the many, many, many 
frustrations I have with it, is 

1475
01:15:08,500 --> 01:15:12,100
the fact that he's trying to do 
this this is fun from this 

1476
01:15:12,100 --> 01:15:15,300
University. 
Yeah absolutely it's like this 

1477
01:15:15,300 --> 01:15:18,800
is fun for me. 
I wanted to bring that up is 

1478
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,300
because it does Work has a lot 
of influence and house the 

1479
01:15:22,300 --> 01:15:25,700
dragon to show and Alison isn't 
being presented as an evil 

1480
01:15:25,700 --> 01:15:28,700
stepmother there. 
And I understand right. 

1481
01:15:28,700 --> 01:15:31,100
Fire blood is coming from 
multiple different perspectives.

1482
01:15:31,300 --> 01:15:33,500
Again not that there isn't this 
evil stepmother Trope. 

1483
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:36,800
There isn't part of what's going
on here but I do feel it's more.

1484
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:41,400
The historians in Martin's world
just like historians in a real 

1485
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,600
world using the evil stepmother 
Trope. 

1486
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:45,200
Yeah. 
The other thing to keep in mind 

1487
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,100
is that the age difference 
between alicetin rhaenyra, even 

1488
01:15:48,100 --> 01:15:50,300
in Fire and Blood is not that 
big. 

1489
01:15:50,300 --> 01:15:52,800
It's like A nine-year age 
difference, that's the 

1490
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,400
difference between an elementary
Schooler and a college student. 

1491
01:15:56,700 --> 01:16:03,700
So yes, evil stepmother but also
they are still kind of peers in 

1492
01:16:03,700 --> 01:16:06,700
a vet just on the very very edge
of being peer. 

1493
01:16:06,700 --> 01:16:09,100
Yeah. 
So like the different, the age 

1494
01:16:09,100 --> 01:16:10,400
difference between rhaenyra and 
Allison. 

1495
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,600
Just for instance, the same age 
difference between me and my 

1496
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:17,700
brother were eight years apart. 
So for a long time probably yes.

1497
01:16:17,700 --> 01:16:20,500
Rhaenyra was a child and alicent
was much older. 

1498
01:16:20,700 --> 01:16:23,800
And mature and sort of living 
the life of an adult. 

1499
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:28,300
And so, her marrying viserys 
under those circumstances would 

1500
01:16:28,300 --> 01:16:31,500
have been less obviously, 
egregious than what happens on 

1501
01:16:31,500 --> 01:16:34,600
the show, where she's his 
daughter's friend, and the two 

1502
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,900
of them are contemporaries, and 
it's implied that there about 

1503
01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:39,200
save age. 
So, that's just a big that's 

1504
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,300
just flat-out change in some 
way, Sean. 

1505
01:16:41,300 --> 01:16:44,200
So that's something to keep in 
mind as they age change was part

1506
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,600
and the making them friends is 
completely not in Fireball. 

1507
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:47,900
That's not just a different 
interpretation. 

1508
01:16:47,900 --> 01:16:49,600
That's just a flat-out change. 
Yeah. 

1509
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:52,200
There's some of these other 
things do pain, that category. 

1510
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,100
One of the interesting things 
with Fire and Blood because 

1511
01:16:55,100 --> 01:16:58,600
again, we're getting sort of 
Snippets of Eustace and room 

1512
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,400
kind of strung together by Gil 
Bates commentary. 

1513
01:17:01,700 --> 01:17:06,500
We don't actually know how long 
how the relationship between 

1514
01:17:06,500 --> 01:17:10,700
rhaenyra and Allison went from 
what was at the beginning. 

1515
01:17:10,700 --> 01:17:15,700
Supposedly like, okay, to just 
absolute disaster, we know that 

1516
01:17:15,700 --> 01:17:17,800
it happened over a period of 
several years. 

1517
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,500
We also know that there were 
these Long periods of time where

1518
01:17:21,500 --> 01:17:24,500
nothing really happened or at 
least, there was no, like, 

1519
01:17:24,500 --> 01:17:29,000
obvious tension between them. 
So it's also entirely possible 

1520
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:32,900
much like what happens during a 
lot of medieval civil wars. 

1521
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,500
That there was violence, was 
kind of a punctuation, but 

1522
01:17:37,500 --> 01:17:41,000
mostly it with these long 
periods of either peace or just 

1523
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,900
people being on good behavior. 
Hmm. 

1524
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:48,000
Okay. 
Right on Let's talk about some 

1525
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:53,100
of his best /, worst /, biggest 
claim, some of these are really 

1526
01:17:53,100 --> 01:17:55,100
wild, some of these are really 
funny. 

1527
01:17:55,100 --> 01:17:58,400
Some of these are possible, some
of these are possible in the 

1528
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,400
book and not so much the show, 
but we'll keep that in mind and 

1529
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:02,700
as we go through them 
individually. 

1530
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:04,600
All right? 
Let's start, Sean somebody's 

1531
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:06,900
gonna be really wild you. 
I think, particularly Alison, 10

1532
01:18:06,900 --> 01:18:10,400
viserys started sleeping 
together before Emma's death. 

1533
01:18:10,700 --> 01:18:13,000
So having only seen the show 
Sean, you're probably like, 

1534
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:14,700
what? 
That's doesn't seem possible to 

1535
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:16,900
obviously things are different 
in the The show in the book, 

1536
01:18:16,900 --> 01:18:20,800
she's 9 years older, you don't 
necessarily have this 

1537
01:18:21,300 --> 01:18:22,800
relationship between viserys and
Emma. 

1538
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,400
That runs really deep that isn't
necessarily as implied or even 

1539
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,000
stated at all. 
So it's a lot more believable, 

1540
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:33,800
even if it is not necessarily 
believable, it's also an 

1541
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,400
indication. 
It may be someone who wants to 

1542
01:18:36,407 --> 01:18:39,400
discredit the stars for Alison 
to whoever might have started 

1543
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:41,800
this rumor, whatever. 
Yeah, it discredits. 

1544
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,900
Both of us, really? 
Yes, speaks to, I mean we're 

1545
01:18:43,900 --> 01:18:48,300
talking about mushrooms agenda. 
And who he's anti and who he's 

1546
01:18:48,300 --> 01:18:49,800
Pro. 
Well, that is. 

1547
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,100
This doesn't make Allison or 
viserys left foot. 

1548
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:53,900
Yeah. 
So this seems like something 

1549
01:18:53,900 --> 01:18:58,400
that Otto would not cause it 
doesn't know what he's doing is 

1550
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:01,500
he's throwing some red herrings 
in there to throw off the scent.

1551
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:04,000
Yeah, you know, I mean more, 
which I'm less. 

1552
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,100
This is something that was added
much much later. 

1553
01:19:07,900 --> 01:19:08,500
Okay. 
Yeah. 

1554
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:13,600
Also mushroom suggested, Allison
performed a services for the Old

1555
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:15,400
King, which is. 
Mmm. 

1556
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:18,600
Yeah, Not likely needing us do 
well on that one. 

1557
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,300
Yeah. 
Doesn't it Allison. 

1558
01:19:21,300 --> 01:19:23,700
Hope that rhaenyra would die in 
childbirth. 

1559
01:19:23,700 --> 01:19:27,900
That's when visenya was born so 
that mushroom was not there for 

1560
01:19:27,900 --> 01:19:30,000
that. 
Mushroom was there for his 

1561
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,400
Enya's birth though and he 
claims to have carried the 

1562
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:38,100
deceased infant to the yard for 
burning which is implies a 

1563
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:41,900
weird. 
Very, why would Rainier have him

1564
01:19:41,900 --> 01:19:42,900
do that? 
Like it seems. 

1565
01:19:42,900 --> 01:19:46,800
So very unknown. 
On the undignified is right word

1566
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,500
like the fool. 
Carries your tragically dead 

1567
01:19:49,500 --> 01:19:51,600
daughter at the scene, right? 
Yeah it seems odd. 

1568
01:19:51,900 --> 01:19:54,400
It's a complete opposite of 
Performing Services, Virgil 

1569
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:57,400
Harris, but also very not 
believable but it is perhaps 

1570
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:59,700
believable. 
That Allison said that line but 

1571
01:19:59,700 --> 01:20:02,900
mushroom not being there. 
Really throws that into 

1572
01:20:02,900 --> 01:20:05,400
question. 
Like you directly quoting 

1573
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:06,700
someone that when you were at 
it. 

1574
01:20:06,700 --> 01:20:09,000
Not in their location. 
Is already kind of a tough. 

1575
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,800
Sell, I wonder if it does line 
up with the idea that it's a 

1576
01:20:12,808 --> 01:20:16,200
story of a small folk or A 
servant that just got lumped 

1577
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,900
into mushroom and all these 
different stories are all 

1578
01:20:18,900 --> 01:20:21,700
mushrooms stories and it's a 
good point, if it's in that 

1579
01:20:21,700 --> 01:20:24,100
bucket very well Sean, you're 
right that one, you're 

1580
01:20:24,100 --> 01:20:25,600
absolutely right. 
Because there could have been 

1581
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:27,400
any number of servants around 
heard Alison. 

1582
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,200
Say maybe the may have, what's 
the actual line is mayhaps? 

1583
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,300
The horrible died in childbed or
something like something. 

1584
01:20:32,300 --> 01:20:33,000
Awful. 
Like that. 

1585
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,800
Yeah. 
I mean, obviously given the 

1586
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:37,500
state of their relationship at 
that point. 

1587
01:20:37,500 --> 01:20:40,600
It is a believable thing for her
to have said under those 

1588
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:42,900
circumstances. 
Yeah, I guess again. 

1589
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:45,300
Remember that Alison. 
I mean, I have to A Jeanette, 

1590
01:20:45,300 --> 01:20:47,900
what we saw in the show with 
Alice that being so just 

1591
01:20:47,900 --> 01:20:53,400
disgusted and horrified by 
Rainier as willful flouting of 

1592
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:56,400
decency. 
Like yeah, she she did think of 

1593
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:57,800
her and those terms. 
Yeah. 

1594
01:20:57,800 --> 01:20:59,800
She did think of it. 
Yeah, you're totally right. 

1595
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:02,100
Oh, she ABS. 
I mean, I'm and without that 

1596
01:21:02,100 --> 01:21:06,600
kind of closeness that the show 
implied as having been between 

1597
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:11,000
rhaenyra and Allison beforehand,
not having that necessarily and 

1598
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,600
imagining Allison to sort of 
this almost older sister figure.

1599
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:20,600
You can kind of see how like she
watched this little girl grow up

1600
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:24,100
into someone that she completely
disapproved of. 

1601
01:21:24,100 --> 01:21:28,400
Yeah, yes, yes, that is very 
triage completely is approved. 

1602
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,800
I mean, you see that? 
That is in the show, that is 

1603
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:32,600
carried over as well. 
It's some of the details are 

1604
01:21:32,608 --> 01:21:35,700
different but it's the same 
bottom line, some related ones 

1605
01:21:35,700 --> 01:21:37,600
here. 
He's mushroom claims the Daemon 

1606
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:39,500
taught rhaenyra how to seduce 
coal. 

1607
01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:41,900
Which, you know, if you go by 
the show version, he didn't 

1608
01:21:41,900 --> 01:21:44,100
teach her how to seduce coal so 
much as he just taught her. 

1609
01:21:44,100 --> 01:21:47,500
Some things about Doctrine, 
which the job immediately turned

1610
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:53,300
to use on Christine call. 
He also says that this story 

1611
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:57,400
became known because of him at 
the time, not in the testimony 

1612
01:21:57,400 --> 01:21:59,600
of mushroom. 
But at the time, he's the part 

1613
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,400
of the reason that this rumor 
spread, or that this truth, 

1614
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:06,600
according to him spread, he also
claims that Cole turn down 

1615
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:10,300
rhaenyra, despite all this, 
because that he's this super 

1616
01:22:10,300 --> 01:22:13,900
Pious like chivalrous would 
never insult. 

1617
01:22:15,300 --> 01:22:17,700
I would never do that sort of 
thing, which is a pretty 

1618
01:22:17,700 --> 01:22:21,300
interesting claim for a mushroom
who is like everything is sexual

1619
01:22:21,300 --> 01:22:23,200
when, you know, before you take 
it away. 

1620
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,900
Could I'd like, to point out 
that if mushroom says, the story

1621
01:22:25,900 --> 01:22:28,800
became known at the time because
of him, well, in the show, the 

1622
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:32,400
story became known because of 
his Aria and her small phone. 

1623
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,900
So is mazari a candidate for one
of the people? 

1624
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,700
You know? 
Yes, a large strong but oh, I'm 

1625
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:46,300
sorry. 
We gotta throw her in the Mater 

1626
01:22:46,300 --> 01:22:49,800
to see there. 
We have our, we have a female 

1627
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:51,200
Astoria. 
So here we go. 

1628
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:55,600
I'm so sorry. 
Hey, oh, that's right. 

1629
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:57,800
This is small. 
So better than the others to 

1630
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,000
does well, and also one of the 
things that I love that they did

1631
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:04,500
on the show was they were 
showing a lot like the lingering

1632
01:23:04,500 --> 01:23:08,000
camera angles and like all of 
those shots of people scurrying 

1633
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,300
around in the background massing
information around. 

1634
01:23:10,300 --> 01:23:15,400
I love that just, that was 
catnip for me on the show and I 

1635
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:17,800
feel like that's where a lot of 
these stories come from like the

1636
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,800
story became known at the time 
because of mushroom himself or 

1637
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:25,300
because it was a racy story that
everyone found fascinating and 

1638
01:23:25,300 --> 01:23:27,900
so, the rumors were spreading 
all over the place at the time. 

1639
01:23:28,900 --> 01:23:31,200
Another thing to connect. 
Those two real quick, Sean is we

1640
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:35,000
hear this is portrayed on the 
show that egg on has children 

1641
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,400
with the underground fighting 
pits, the book version of that 

1642
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:42,000
is reported by mushroom, which 
the acceptance tend to download.

1643
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:43,900
I got this is all gross 
whatever. 

1644
01:23:43,900 --> 01:23:48,000
Let's move on That you know so 
it fits that as well that it 

1645
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:49,500
would be something. 
That's a small folk would have 

1646
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:51,400
maybe heard about because this 
is a guy. 

1647
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:53,200
I knew that to happen is our 
enemies. 

1648
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:55,400
Are you wanted those pit shut 
down? 

1649
01:23:55,700 --> 01:23:58,800
Yeah, so she wouldn't like a so 
she could see why she would have

1650
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:00,700
included that these things all 
fit together pretty. 

1651
01:24:00,700 --> 01:24:04,900
Well, let's bring it back to the
original part of this which 

1652
01:24:04,900 --> 01:24:07,900
started which was the idea that 
the coal and Rainier and Damon 

1653
01:24:07,900 --> 01:24:09,500
stuff. 
What do you think this story in 

1654
01:24:09,500 --> 01:24:12,200
particular feels like an outtake
from the Decameron? 

1655
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:16,000
To me all the tropes are there 
you have the out of scare quotes

1656
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:20,300
comic plotline of the naive and 
stupid young girl who is chasing

1657
01:24:20,300 --> 01:24:23,200
the oblivious guy. 
She turns to the rake for help. 

1658
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,100
Not real. 
I mean by either knowing or not 

1659
01:24:25,100 --> 01:24:26,700
knowing that. 
He's a real coach asks, no 

1660
01:24:26,700 --> 01:24:28,900
questions about why this is a 
bad idea. 

1661
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:32,600
Go into excruciating detail 
about all the kinky things, they

1662
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:36,000
got up to and then only the guy 
she wants scorns her, and she 

1663
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,300
goes off, and finds another guy 
and just goes off, living her. 

1664
01:24:39,300 --> 01:24:42,300
Happy a promiscuous life. 
There is actually a similar 

1665
01:24:42,300 --> 01:24:45,400
story about King, Edward, the 
third and his Enter mistress, 

1666
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:49,200
Alice preparers that made it 
into several later. 15th century

1667
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:51,800
story collections that were 
inspired by the Decameron. 

1668
01:24:51,900 --> 01:24:54,700
So even though, the Decameron 
itself isn't about historical 

1669
01:24:54,700 --> 01:24:58,700
figures, a lot of the spin-offs 
of the Decameron ended up 

1670
01:24:58,700 --> 01:25:02,000
starring historical figures. 
Like there's one about Edward 

1671
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:05,900
the Fourth, as well, and he's 
supposed meeting with his life 

1672
01:25:05,900 --> 01:25:07,600
where he threatens her, with a 
dagger. 

1673
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,400
And she says, no, I'm too good 
to be your concubine, but not 

1674
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,200
the well-born enough to be your 
queen except he ultimately goes 

1675
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:15,100
off. 
And Aries her. 

1676
01:25:15,300 --> 01:25:20,000
It's a very similar kind of 
story and these are these are 

1677
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,600
stories that would circulate 
about monarchs. 

1678
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:25,000
Because people wanted racy 
stories about monarchs, they 

1679
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:27,700
wanted to know that monarchs 
were just like them and they got

1680
01:25:27,700 --> 01:25:30,600
up to the same nonsense that 
they did like a much later 

1681
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:34,700
example, we also have this is a 
19th century example, but King 

1682
01:25:34,700 --> 01:25:37,400
Francis, the he closed while the
first of France who lived in the

1683
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:39,600
early 16th century around the 
same time as Henry. 

1684
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,400
The eighth was cast as the 
villain in a 19th century. 

1685
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,800
Play by Victor Hugo the same. 
Victor Hugo who and He's a 

1686
01:25:44,808 --> 01:25:47,500
table. 
This play was called the Wasps 

1687
01:25:47,500 --> 01:25:51,800
amuse or the king amuses himself
and he tries to seduce the 

1688
01:25:51,808 --> 01:25:54,800
daughter of his court jester, 
hey, relevant, only it all ends 

1689
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:57,700
in death, not the King's death, 
but everybody else. 

1690
01:25:57,700 --> 01:26:01,300
So, as a note for Opera fans, 
this actually became the basis 

1691
01:26:01,300 --> 01:26:03,000
for Giuseppe better days ago 
that do. 

1692
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,900
And it's a beautiful like 
wonderful wonderful songs and 

1693
01:26:05,900 --> 01:26:09,700
the plot is awful. 
It is just about terrible men, 

1694
01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:14,000
doing terrible things, which is 
just to say that something like 

1695
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,100
this. 
Story about Damon and rhaenyra 

1696
01:26:17,100 --> 01:26:21,400
and Kristen Bowl. 
It just, it feels very sort of 

1697
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:25,500
literary to me more than an 
actual historical account, okay?

1698
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:28,100
Right on. 
Yeah, the actual line from 

1699
01:26:28,100 --> 01:26:31,200
mushroom about criston Cole is 
that he was quote as chaste and 

1700
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:35,600
virtuous as an agent SEPTA. 
So not much room for not much 

1701
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:38,300
wiggle room there unless he's 
just wrong and lying or 

1702
01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:41,400
something, there's no sense of 
humor. 

1703
01:26:41,500 --> 01:26:46,700
Is what I do. 
He also, Claims that the next 

1704
01:26:46,700 --> 01:26:49,600
thing that happened after being 
after she was turned down by 

1705
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,600
criston Cole, was that she 
turned to break bones and he 

1706
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:56,000
claims to have caught them a bed
which is what does he just 

1707
01:26:56,300 --> 01:26:59,700
allowed to walk in to her room 
whenever he wants to? 

1708
01:26:59,700 --> 01:27:01,900
Like this was a little hard to 
figure out logistically. 

1709
01:27:01,900 --> 01:27:05,400
Sure but sit, but I like to 
think that rhaenyra and Harwin 

1710
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:08,400
were getting busy, you know, and
some not discreet places, not 

1711
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:10,600
necessarily in the bedchamber, 
okay? 

1712
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,600
So just I just, you know, like 
technically like he can pop them

1713
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:17,000
a bed but not Not in their bed 
bed in bed. 

1714
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:20,500
Okay, now I just there's a 
thought that's a good way to get

1715
01:27:20,500 --> 01:27:22,700
around that problem. 
Yeah I like fishing like yeah 

1716
01:27:22,700 --> 01:27:25,400
just like out and look at you 
know, a little a little Nook 

1717
01:27:25,500 --> 01:27:30,100
somewhere. 
I don't know commotion mushroom 

1718
01:27:30,100 --> 01:27:33,100
or someone serving as, you know,
the role of mushroom or whatever

1719
01:27:33,100 --> 01:27:36,300
is we're supposing, could have 
been going through some secret 

1720
01:27:36,300 --> 01:27:38,200
chamber. 
Okay, I like in the serve an 

1721
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:40,100
idea works really well here too 
as you said because they could 

1722
01:27:40,100 --> 01:27:42,500
just be having to live. 
It's time to change the bed. 

1723
01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:45,500
Yeah, bring more cousins. 
Like do that. 

1724
01:27:45,500 --> 01:27:46,800
And like what? 
Yeah, sorry. 

1725
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:48,800
I didn't know you were doing 
that in here. 

1726
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:50,400
Yeah. 
When you're not supposed to be 

1727
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:52,400
in this room even. 
Yeah. 

1728
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,100
So speak staying in bed. 
Mushroom claims that Rainier, 

1729
01:27:56,100 --> 01:27:59,000
liked watching lane or and Carl 
in bed together. 

1730
01:27:59,300 --> 01:28:01,800
This is one that you could just 
hear about as well. 

1731
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:05,500
I technically Rainier, I could 
have remarked to someone that. 

1732
01:28:05,500 --> 01:28:08,400
She watched them one time and 
enjoyed it, right? 

1733
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:11,000
Or she could have been joking. 
Yes, jokes. 

1734
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:14,900
I can assure. 
I sure enjoy watching my Husband

1735
01:28:14,900 --> 01:28:17,300
but his dude. 
Like I the servant miss the 

1736
01:28:17,300 --> 01:28:20,000
sarcasm or someone missed the 
sarcasm there and there's a 

1737
01:28:20,008 --> 01:28:23,400
quote here as well. 
That adds some context yet. 

1738
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:26,900
Mushroom contradicts himself or 
elsewhere in his testimony. 

1739
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,700
He claims that the princess 
would leave her husband with his

1740
01:28:29,700 --> 01:28:33,900
lover on such nights and seek 
her own solace in the arms of 

1741
01:28:33,900 --> 01:28:37,100
Harwin strong classic. 
Why not both situation. 

1742
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:39,900
Sometimes you want chocolate, 
sometimes you want Strawberry, 

1743
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:43,700
you know sometimes you won't 
bump. 

1744
01:28:43,700 --> 01:28:45,100
Yes. 
Exactly. 

1745
01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:47,800
So yeah, that this city that's 
where he stops like he hasn't, 

1746
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:53,300
he doesn't say okay and also 
there was an orgy he could have 

1747
01:28:53,300 --> 01:28:55,900
but they bail or had that line 
Burn? 

1748
01:28:55,900 --> 01:28:59,000
Yeah, yeah I think it like maybe
that was one build a inkatha. 

1749
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:05,000
I like building exercised, his 
own moralistic reason, he claims

1750
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:09,500
the Damon and Elena explored 
valyria, which is cool. 

1751
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:11,900
Now the quote here is we have 
abundant evidence. 

1752
01:29:11,900 --> 01:29:14,400
The truth was less romantic but 
it's another one. 

1753
01:29:14,500 --> 01:29:17,300
Not both like there's evidence 
that they were our braavos and 

1754
01:29:17,300 --> 01:29:20,300
pentose which we saw in the 
show, they were performing and 

1755
01:29:20,300 --> 01:29:23,200
getting feasted because they're 
fancy Dragon Riders. 

1756
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:26,500
People are happy to give them 
gifts and try to win them over 

1757
01:29:26,500 --> 01:29:28,800
and stuff like that, but that 
doesn't mean they did. 

1758
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:32,700
Also go elsewhere, right? 
If they couldn't like, they were

1759
01:29:32,700 --> 01:29:37,000
on dragons, and he do not know 
where they went, they could have

1760
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:40,200
gone to any number of places 
that are just not recorded. 

1761
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:42,700
We're talking about a period of 
several years that are not 

1762
01:29:42,700 --> 01:29:48,100
necessarily accounted for And 
the flight logs, there's no yeah

1763
01:29:48,100 --> 01:29:51,400
that there's no westerosi FAA so
know what's keeping track of 

1764
01:29:51,407 --> 01:29:54,200
where the dragons are ya. 
So that's why it's open. 

1765
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:58,000
So I think we can't deny 
mushroom here entirely based on 

1766
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:00,900
the portrayal of Lena and House 
of the Dragon. 

1767
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:05,300
I could totally see Lena really 
wanting to go check out valyria 

1768
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:07,800
and she's got the dragon to do 
it. 

1769
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,000
Yeah. 
Hagar could big our could make 

1770
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:10,900
it that far? 
I'm frankly. 

1771
01:30:10,900 --> 01:30:13,700
David was like even though he 
was portrayed as being kind of 

1772
01:30:13,700 --> 01:30:16,700
stuck in the Rory. 
He was reading about valyria. 

1773
01:30:16,700 --> 01:30:20,300
Yeah, I could hear them going on
a day trip. 

1774
01:30:20,300 --> 01:30:23,000
Picnic kind of you know he 
trimmed big. 

1775
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,000
That's great. 
Combining a lot of childhood 

1776
01:30:29,100 --> 01:30:31,100
fun. 
It's like it's the lava game you

1777
01:30:31,100 --> 01:30:36,000
know you can't touch this 
actually true and valyria, you 

1778
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:39,200
really can't touch. 
And unlike the situation with 

1779
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:43,600
area and balerion like you're 
talking to adult capable Dragon 

1780
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,200
Riders who have been bought But 
they're dragons for a long for a

1781
01:30:46,208 --> 01:30:49,900
decent amount of time, so I 
don't think it's impossible. 

1782
01:30:49,900 --> 01:30:51,400
Yeah, they turn around here. 
It's bad. 

1783
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:52,700
Unlike Belarus. 
Exactly. 

1784
01:30:52,700 --> 01:30:55,100
They can turn around. 
If it gets bad as like turn 

1785
01:30:55,100 --> 01:30:58,400
around, I don't have a mask 
pretty much. 

1786
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:05,700
Yeah, I can handle. 
This could be, they traveled to 

1787
01:31:05,700 --> 01:31:08,900
valyria, and turned around 
before they even got like a 

1788
01:31:08,900 --> 01:31:11,300
quarter of a mile into the 
Border, you know, like they 

1789
01:31:11,300 --> 01:31:13,900
could have gotten to the out 
here and not actually really 

1790
01:31:13,900 --> 01:31:16,100
pretty. 
Gone far, they could have flowed

1791
01:31:16,100 --> 01:31:17,800
over it. 
And said, wait, there's nowhere 

1792
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:19,100
to land. 
Let's go. 

1793
01:31:19,500 --> 01:31:23,700
Yeah, let's go find a beach. 
We're on an island nearby, that 

1794
01:31:23,700 --> 01:31:27,500
had a view of it. 
A lot of options for the 

1795
01:31:27,500 --> 01:31:31,600
dragons, resisted, like they did
at the wall ability. 

1796
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:33,700
Maybe the dragons were like, no,
we're not going anywhere. 

1797
01:31:33,700 --> 01:31:34,900
Near the learning can go in 
there. 

1798
01:31:34,900 --> 01:31:36,600
But look, what happened to be 
wearing when he went in there. 

1799
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:38,100
Nine foots. 
Yeah. 

1800
01:31:38,100 --> 01:31:40,500
And I don't want a 9-foot wound.
I don't want to one. 

1801
01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:43,300
Yeah, maybe they guards. 
Like that's my brother's job. 

1802
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:47,300
I'm not going. 
You told me how bad it was like 

1803
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:50,600
ya told me in private. 
Yeah I bet balerion told me. 

1804
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:54,200
Yeah, that dragons taught. 
No, I've seen grass is so 

1805
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:56,700
interesting to think about the 
idea that like balerion comes 

1806
01:31:56,700 --> 01:31:59,400
back from valyria and 
communicates with any of the 

1807
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:02,300
other dragons and tell them that
my car man. 

1808
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:07,700
Yeah go home anymore. 
Is that was God's as bad as they

1809
01:32:07,700 --> 01:32:12,100
say? 
They really set it on fire. 

1810
01:32:12,300 --> 01:32:16,200
Whoops, of course. 
His and fire mushroom also 

1811
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,200
claims that it was the sea. 
Snake, who started the fire at 

1812
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:21,700
harrenhal is Vengeance. 
On the man who cuckolded his 

1813
01:32:21,700 --> 01:32:25,000
son. 
Really started the fire. 

1814
01:32:26,500 --> 01:32:29,100
It was always Kirsten. 
Not the Bro of her. 

1815
01:32:31,900 --> 01:32:34,900
I feel like that one. 
Can go with the alerted hands. 

1816
01:32:34,900 --> 01:32:37,600
Everybody died. 
So I think we can. 

1817
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:39,700
Yeah, that one's not know about 
that. 

1818
01:32:39,700 --> 01:32:40,900
One mushroom. 
Good. 

1819
01:32:40,900 --> 01:32:44,300
Good fodder for humor, though. 
He claims that Adam and Allen 

1820
01:32:44,300 --> 01:32:45,500
are. 
Children of poor least rather 

1821
01:32:45,500 --> 01:32:48,700
than the quote, official 
explanation of lane or which s 

1822
01:32:48,700 --> 01:32:53,200
is what I think it's for Shawn 
doesn't really know Alan and 

1823
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:56,200
Adam and Alan at all, but you'll
encounter that next season. 

1824
01:32:56,200 --> 01:33:00,900
But you'll see ya. 
But no, I absolutely just I 

1825
01:33:00,900 --> 01:33:04,300
really, this is one that I am 
99% sure. 

1826
01:33:04,300 --> 01:33:07,000
I feel that they're not laying 
horse farm blood agrees, it's 

1827
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:08,300
not. 
Like, even this environment 

1828
01:33:08,300 --> 01:33:10,100
official, he's like, yeah, this 
is probably true. 

1829
01:33:10,100 --> 01:33:11,700
Mushrooms, probably right on 
this one. 

1830
01:33:11,700 --> 01:33:13,800
It just sounds so like, yeah, 
yeah. 

1831
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:16,500
Gil Danes like, This is one of 
the instances, where mushroom 

1832
01:33:16,500 --> 01:33:18,600
might actually be like, I'm 
sure, I'm pretty sure even, sean

1833
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:20,200
can get, why this, why we feel 
this way? 

1834
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:23,900
Because it's the idea here, is 
that lane or fathered bastards? 

1835
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:25,600
Yeah. 
And mushroom was like, no, 

1836
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:27,800
probably not. 
Like yeah, why would lane or 

1837
01:33:28,100 --> 01:33:32,900
yeah, gay man, who didn't have 
children with his wife, have his

1838
01:33:32,900 --> 01:33:33,800
wife? 
Yeah. 

1839
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,300
Seem to care about and have an 
obligation to but then with 

1840
01:33:37,300 --> 01:33:38,600
other random women. 
Yeah. 

1841
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:39,700
It doesn't make sense. 
Does it? 

1842
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:44,100
And in both the show and in Fire
and Blood, you actually get the 

1843
01:33:44,100 --> 01:33:46,900
impression. 
That rhaenyra and lane or had a 

1844
01:33:46,900 --> 01:33:50,300
decent relationship. 
It just wasn't a sexual one. 

1845
01:33:50,300 --> 01:33:54,200
Yes, yeah. 
Moving on, mushroom claims that 

1846
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,700
rhaenyra and Damon named their 
child egg on as a slight to 

1847
01:33:57,700 --> 01:34:01,100
Alison and her egg on salad 
Valley? 

1848
01:34:01,100 --> 01:34:01,700
Sure. 
Yeah. 

1849
01:34:02,100 --> 01:34:04,800
You against that I mean when 
your name your kid egg on when 

1850
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:08,200
there's already an egg on who's 
like yeah no I think so you 

1851
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:11,600
can't not know I gotta say I'm 
afraid we did all watch season 8

1852
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:15,300
of game. 
A couple things here. 

1853
01:34:15,300 --> 01:34:17,400
One. 
I probably don't want to do well

1854
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:20,000
on it too long or hear too much 
about it, but just because lane 

1855
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:21,700
or didn't have those kids, why 
does that mean? 

1856
01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:22,700
Corliss? 
Did I? 

1857
01:34:22,700 --> 01:34:24,000
But maybe I'm sure there's more 
to it. 

1858
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,000
I don't even know. 
Yeah, you don't know that kids. 

1859
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,500
Ya got there. 
I realized. 

1860
01:34:28,500 --> 01:34:31,300
Is it a couple times? 
I've even thought like, oh man, 

1861
01:34:31,300 --> 01:34:34,500
I'm not being spoiled when I 
hear about, aegon the third by 

1862
01:34:34,500 --> 01:34:37,300
like, well that could be named 
after was a lot of aegon's. 

1863
01:34:37,300 --> 01:34:39,900
A lot of different aegon's back.
And I wonder even if that was 

1864
01:34:39,900 --> 01:34:43,400
part of George's intent, kind of
Muddy, the Waters of like who 

1865
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:45,700
alliance with your way. 
Comes of things, could be. 

1866
01:34:45,700 --> 01:34:49,200
So, absolutely so many egg on. 
Yes, it does help. 

1867
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:51,600
It does help us avoid spoilers 
like a, we can throw some hang 

1868
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:53,200
on. 
I've, no, I noticed that when I 

1869
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:56,200
was like mentioning on the third
before is like when you were a 

1870
01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:58,000
che Express, a little concerned 
there's like, you know, I'm not 

1871
01:34:58,000 --> 01:34:59,900
sure. 
Sean's gonna know what egg on 

1872
01:34:59,900 --> 01:35:02,300
with their weather that he's not
necessarily be able to figure 

1873
01:35:02,300 --> 01:35:04,300
out who that is. 
Or yeah, don't know where aegon,

1874
01:35:04,300 --> 01:35:05,900
the fourth, an egg on the third 
line. 

1875
01:35:05,900 --> 01:35:07,900
Yeah, it doesn't even tell you 
the time lat. 

1876
01:35:08,100 --> 01:35:10,300
Anyway, tell ya. 
But yes I was concerned. 

1877
01:35:10,300 --> 01:35:11,200
You're right. 
Is these? 

1878
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:14,800
I really was like oh no, I was 
just Too. 

1879
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,500
But then I realized what? 
No, I thought that means that 

1880
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:19,200
no, it doesn't mean that other. 
Yeah. 

1881
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:23,600
Yeah, yeah. 
So it's mushroom, as the source 

1882
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:27,300
for baby visenya, being 
draconic, and looking like all 

1883
01:35:27,300 --> 01:35:29,900
that, all the different physical
ailments, that she was born with

1884
01:35:29,900 --> 01:35:33,000
and that goes along with him, 
being going to carry her to the 

1885
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,600
funeral yard. 
That one seems accurate based on

1886
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:38,600
the show having that if we're 
taking the show as being a, you 

1887
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:40,800
know, having some something to 
go on. 

1888
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:42,000
Yeah. 
And of course it's not the first

1889
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,100
example that Danny has a. 
There's like, the ones Beggars 

1890
01:35:45,100 --> 01:35:47,100
wives who were maybe in that 
category as well. 

1891
01:35:47,100 --> 01:35:50,900
So yeah, this is this is well 
supported by other examples 

1892
01:35:50,900 --> 01:35:53,100
elsewhere. 
Here's the one we mentioned 

1893
01:35:53,100 --> 01:35:55,700
briefly before that egg on the 
second side to bastard children 

1894
01:35:55,700 --> 01:35:57,300
on the street of silk the same 
year. 

1895
01:35:57,300 --> 01:36:00,600
His twins with Elena were born. 
That part is sometimes gets lost

1896
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:04,200
in the shuffle that they were 
born the same time as jaehaerys 

1897
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:07,700
injera included. 
In this set of rumors is that he

1898
01:36:07,700 --> 01:36:11,100
won one of these women at 
auction, he won her maidenhead 

1899
01:36:11,100 --> 01:36:14,700
hockey, which is yeah. 
And the other was One of his 

1900
01:36:14,700 --> 01:36:17,000
mother's maid servants, which is
similar to show in, which it was

1901
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:18,600
his wife's maid servant, said, 
of his mother's. 

1902
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:20,200
Maid servant. 
So that's the yeah, pretty small

1903
01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:22,300
difference there. 
In terms of, it was little 

1904
01:36:22,300 --> 01:36:25,600
Nanny, the neck, which is were 
they, they were, they were like,

1905
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,200
let's make this worse. 
Yeah, let's make a gun worse. 

1906
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:30,200
Yeah. 
They totally made a gun sleep 

1907
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:34,600
with the nanny, he apparently 
claims part, or full credit for 

1908
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:37,400
the idea of the Dragon seeds in 
the first place, giving the idea

1909
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:44,000
to J's which an odd moment take 
credit for the show's version 

1910
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:46,700
where the It was David's idea. 
Seems more. 

1911
01:36:46,700 --> 01:36:48,200
Yeah. 
So he's the one who's all 

1912
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,800
gung-ho about using dragons and 
in Warfare. 

1913
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:52,800
So, I feel like, he's the one 
who's pushing. 

1914
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:53,800
I think, you're right. 
Yeah. 

1915
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:55,300
The mushroom might be tugging at
his pants. 

1916
01:36:55,300 --> 01:36:58,100
Like, remember my idea, there's 
a time to talk about, like, the 

1917
01:36:58,100 --> 01:36:59,900
painted tables taller than him, 
so they wouldn't. 

1918
01:36:59,900 --> 01:37:02,200
Do we keep coming back to that? 
It keeps fitting. 

1919
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:05,400
So everything sure was talking 
about a different kind of dragon

1920
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:15,900
see. 
I had to say it, but yeah, 

1921
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:18,900
everything about Sarah snow 
comes from mushroom. 

1922
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:21,200
All of it, including her 
existence. 

1923
01:37:21,500 --> 01:37:24,300
The fact that she exists at all 
comes from mushroom. 

1924
01:37:24,300 --> 01:37:27,300
The romance, all of it comes 
from mushroom. 

1925
01:37:27,300 --> 01:37:28,900
None of its corroborated 
elsewhere. 

1926
01:37:29,100 --> 01:37:31,700
Sean that says, we're not going 
to detail this one, because it's

1927
01:37:31,700 --> 01:37:33,900
pretty spoilery, but just the 
fact that she exists at all 

1928
01:37:33,900 --> 01:37:34,800
comes. 
There's a stark. 

1929
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,400
Bastard daughter potential. 
Yeah, but maybe she doesn't even

1930
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:40,200
exist. 
I think mushroom heard the tale 

1931
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:42,400
of Baal The Bard and got 
inspired. 

1932
01:37:43,100 --> 01:37:46,200
That's a good one but he would, 
if anyone would know like he's 

1933
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:49,400
gonna have going to have access 
to Jace, talk to him. 

1934
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:51,300
And yeah, his home is 
Dragonstone. 

1935
01:37:51,300 --> 01:37:58,000
So this was very possible. 
Hi, I really don't like for me, 

1936
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:01,400
personally, I kind of don't want
it to be real like I don't like 

1937
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:03,600
in the house of the drug. 
What I think if I replied is 

1938
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,100
every what I want house, the 
dragon to do, in other words, my

1939
01:38:06,100 --> 01:38:08,500
house of the Dragon, I would 
prefer to not have a serous 

1940
01:38:08,500 --> 01:38:11,600
know, and there's a lot of 
different ways they can go with 

1941
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:14,900
making things meaningful Chase 
and the start Connection in my 

1942
01:38:14,900 --> 01:38:18,500
in my book. 
But I do think that the argument

1943
01:38:18,500 --> 01:38:21,800
for Sarah snow to me and why I 
think it could be meaningful, is

1944
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:24,800
because I feel like Jay says 
someone who knows in-house the 

1945
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:26,700
dragon. 
He knows he's a bastard. 

1946
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,400
I feel like he would be having 
him bond with the fast. 

1947
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,500
Would bond with a fellow 
bastard. 

1948
01:38:31,500 --> 01:38:33,600
Noble, bastard. 
I feel like there could be a lot

1949
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:34,200
there. 
Yeah. 

1950
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:37,200
How I think they'll go with 
that. 

1951
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:39,700
I agree. 
But no, I do brandalynn price 

1952
01:38:39,700 --> 01:38:42,400
said my thigh here. 
Sarah snow equals Craig and 

1953
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:43,600
star. 
It is known. 

1954
01:38:43,700 --> 01:38:47,200
I am Loki heike, A J's Cragen 
shipper. 

1955
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:51,100
I do prefer the idea of they had
a little romance that's Sara A 

1956
01:38:51,100 --> 01:38:51,900
J's. 
I love it. 

1957
01:38:51,900 --> 01:38:54,000
Yeah. 
Anyways, but still, yes, I'm, 

1958
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:56,700
I'm, I agree with you 
brandalynn, actually very much, 

1959
01:38:56,700 --> 01:39:00,800
I was dancing around it, but 
that's my take, it's mushrooms. 

1960
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:04,200
Claim that ver Max left a clutch
of eggs at Winterfell while Jace

1961
01:39:04,200 --> 01:39:06,300
was up there. 
Now, here's where our to Source 

1962
01:39:06,300 --> 01:39:09,500
episodes come together because 
Fire and Blood calls this absurd

1963
01:39:09,500 --> 01:39:12,500
because they're sure ver Max was
male. 

1964
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:17,200
Mention that septon bark when 
septon bars claims that dragons 

1965
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:20,300
can change sex. 
It's ludicrous but we know the 

1966
01:39:20,300 --> 01:39:22,100
real world. 
This really happens with them 

1967
01:39:22,100 --> 01:39:24,200
billions and lizard species. 
It's that we've mentioned 

1968
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:26,300
several times. 
Like I've personally seen it 

1969
01:39:26,300 --> 01:39:31,300
with fish in my own home, so 
yeah, it's not ludicrous. 

1970
01:39:32,300 --> 01:39:35,400
And of course there's the 
dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, of 

1971
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:36,500
course. 
Yeah. 

1972
01:39:36,500 --> 01:39:38,100
Where we have magic filling. 
That Gap here? 

1973
01:39:38,100 --> 01:39:41,900
No, I think there's even 
examples of mammals doing this, 

1974
01:39:41,900 --> 01:39:44,400
by the way, I I wish I knew a 
little bit better but I think 

1975
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:46,800
there's an example of a mammal 
do maybe something weird like a 

1976
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:49,900
platypus because they actually 
lay eggs. 

1977
01:39:50,700 --> 01:39:53,600
He's also the main source for 
much of what we know about off 

1978
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:55,400
the white and you hammer. 
And of course, those two seem 

1979
01:39:55,400 --> 01:40:00,200
like Pretty Bad Dudes, mushroom 
makes them seem even worse. 

1980
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:02,700
I suppose, which would kind of 
fit the first speaking to his 

1981
01:40:02,700 --> 01:40:05,700
agenda. 
That's a pretty anti to small 

1982
01:40:05,700 --> 01:40:09,600
folk people there. 
You know, that's a good point in

1983
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:11,600
a, depending on who submitted 
this. 

1984
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:12,800
You might think they might 
paint. 

1985
01:40:12,900 --> 01:40:14,700
Them a little better. 
But I don't know, very good 

1986
01:40:14,700 --> 01:40:19,000
point well, but also, they are 
too small folk who caused a 

1987
01:40:19,008 --> 01:40:21,600
great deal of harm to many more 
small. 

1988
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:25,400
Yeah. 
Good point on the one hand, like

1989
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:28,800
I, you may want because what the
way that they're portrayed at 

1990
01:40:28,800 --> 01:40:32,700
first is not quite as bad as 
what happens later on. 

1991
01:40:32,700 --> 01:40:36,000
So kind of it may well be that 
at first, everyone's like, oh 

1992
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,600
yeah, that's really cool. 
But then a little later on. 

1993
01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:40,300
They're like, oh wait no. 
These guys are terrible. 

1994
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:45,700
Whoops, Next up, we have that it
was still Venice and who was 

1995
01:40:45,700 --> 01:40:48,700
behind game and palhares legal 
edicts, which were, of course 

1996
01:40:48,700 --> 01:40:50,900
characterized by their pro-woman
at Academy. 

1997
01:40:51,400 --> 01:40:52,900
Cooper believe Shannon Barry 
plans. 

1998
01:40:52,900 --> 01:40:56,800
Oh yeah, of course, of course 
this like dornish woman who had 

1999
01:40:56,800 --> 01:40:59,900
a little bit more. 
Yeah, of course, if it's a lie, 

2000
01:40:59,900 --> 01:41:02,500
it's so well crafted that it's 
hard to challenge. 

2001
01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:06,900
I refuse to be like II accept 
that and this comes brings me 

2002
01:41:06,907 --> 01:41:09,200
back to Missouri again because I
know y'all will probably 

2003
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:11,100
remember that. 
I have a little bit of a theory.

2004
01:41:11,100 --> 01:41:15,600
I mean I would like to get it SE
and silvanus and I got wood but 

2005
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:17,900
following the law of 
conservation of characters and 

2006
01:41:17,900 --> 01:41:20,500
all that I do think there's a 
strong chance that m'. 

2007
01:41:20,500 --> 01:41:24,200
Aria will take a lot of that 
plot line. 

2008
01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:28,000
Even even a potentially 
extending to the lesbian Romance

2009
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,900
of it. 
All like that is also possible 

2010
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:32,700
would be Fab. 
So, just speaking to the misery 

2011
01:41:32,700 --> 01:41:35,600
a mushroom connection more 
potentially but I still don't 

2012
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:36,800
think that's the case in the 
book. 

2013
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:39,800
It was Silvana. 
We're going to meet a character 

2014
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:41,600
called Alice rivers in season 2,
Shawn. 

2015
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:45,200
That's a bass. 
Harrenhal and according to 

2016
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:48,400
mushroom she was quote a malign 
enchantress who bathed in the 

2017
01:41:48,407 --> 01:41:50,600
blood of virgins to preserve her
youth. 

2018
01:41:50,700 --> 01:41:54,400
Hmm okay then pottery that one a
few times. 

2019
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:58,000
Yes oh yeah Elizabeth Bathory 
who was perhaps a medieval? 

2020
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:01,300
Was that right Cheryl killer 
early modern she was late 16th 

2021
01:42:01,300 --> 01:42:04,000
and early 17th century but I 
believe there's been some good 

2022
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:06,600
podcast episodes on her. 
I recommend the the history 

2023
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:09,200
chicks episode on her and 
particular Noble Blood also did 

2024
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:12,800
a good one on her right on. 
So as part of this She claimed, 

2025
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:14,900
she was Far older than her 
appearance, which, of course. 

2026
01:42:15,100 --> 01:42:18,100
That's the point of preserving 
your youth, but he's pointing 

2027
01:42:18,100 --> 01:42:20,600
out that it's a substantial 
amount of Youth has been 

2028
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:22,800
preserved here. 
Not just, it's not like she's 10

2029
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:25,700
years, younger that he claims 
that she's multiple Generations.

2030
01:42:25,700 --> 01:42:30,500
Younger that she was even Lionel
Strong's wet nurse and maybe 

2031
01:42:30,500 --> 01:42:32,800
even two Lionel's. 
Father. 

2032
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:38,500
So that she would be like way 
older, which is the more 

2033
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:42,400
standard accepted version is 
that she is a bastard daughter. 

2034
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:46,100
While but mushroom claims that 
she was wet nurse to Lionel. 

2035
01:42:46,100 --> 01:42:48,700
So these are pretty you can also
have been far apart. 

2036
01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:50,000
Yeah. 
Absolutely, which is why I buy 

2037
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:53,200
my favorite take is her as a 
bastard sister to Lionel. 

2038
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:54,800
Yeah. 
I don't know that I think that's

2039
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:57,600
for house dragons going to go. 
I'm not sure like just looking 

2040
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:00,400
at Harwin and Laura it's hard 
like those all those actors were

2041
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:03,000
so close in age and Ike reality.
I don't know what they're going 

2042
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:06,600
for their but I like the idea 
that it's between what mushroom 

2043
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:09,500
says here that like, no she 
wasn't a wet nurse to Lionel's 

2044
01:43:09,500 --> 01:43:12,000
father. 
But like she was old enough. 

2045
01:43:12,500 --> 01:43:15,100
Older than Lionel enough to be 
wet nurse to her. 

2046
01:43:15,100 --> 01:43:17,100
Like little bastard. 
Probably not was his what it 

2047
01:43:17,100 --> 01:43:19,000
would be quote unquote old 
enough to be his wet. 

2048
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:20,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, but like yeah was his 

2049
01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:23,000
older sister and a bastard 
sister is my preferred to 

2050
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:26,100
headcanon there. 
But yeah, I certainly do not 

2051
01:43:26,100 --> 01:43:29,800
think that she was a generation 
before Lionel. 

2052
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:31,200
I don't think she was that'll 
yeah. 

2053
01:43:31,300 --> 01:43:34,400
I think she was Lionel's on my 
assumption was that she was 

2054
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:39,200
either Lionel's generation or 
like close to or just barely out

2055
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:42,400
of fights all in between like 
yeah like yeah point five. 

2056
01:43:43,300 --> 01:43:48,600
Yeah, I prefer for fantastic 
things to be kept at a minimum 

2057
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:53,500
and so I hope they don't make 
her magically look like she's 25

2058
01:43:53,500 --> 01:43:55,200
when she's really a hundred or 
something. 

2059
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:57,100
Yeah. 
But I can see the show like 

2060
01:43:57,100 --> 01:44:00,600
having these rumors about her 
four characters suspicious in 

2061
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:03,000
some way or someone has it out 
for her for some reason. 

2062
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:05,800
But she is 50 and she just looks
real good and looks like she's 

2063
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:08,100
in her 20s. 
And then people say some things 

2064
01:44:08,100 --> 01:44:10,000
about her. 
Yeah something like that is kind

2065
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,400
of more like in her 40s is 
kindness. 

2066
01:44:12,500 --> 01:44:14,100
World. 
You have to keep it as a 

2067
01:44:14,100 --> 01:44:16,700
potential. 
Like Noah Sondra really is 

2068
01:44:16,900 --> 01:44:20,600
hundreds of years old but that 
Melisandre like is playing a 

2069
01:44:20,608 --> 01:44:23,100
certain role on the show, it 
requires that? 

2070
01:44:23,100 --> 01:44:26,900
I don't know if the seller are 
character needs to be really be 

2071
01:44:26,900 --> 01:44:29,900
100 and she's aware whatever 
you, but she is just have 

2072
01:44:29,900 --> 01:44:33,400
mystical associations with her, 
so calling her on the line and 

2073
01:44:33,400 --> 01:44:36,000
chant rest-- who bathed in the 
blood of virgins is an 

2074
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:40,100
overstatement but also not 
necessarily entirely inaccurate 

2075
01:44:40,100 --> 01:44:42,400
in that. 
She did seem to have a magical 

2076
01:44:42,500 --> 01:44:45,700
Association isn't the only 
magical thing about her. 

2077
01:44:45,700 --> 01:44:48,700
Yeah, not the blood of virgins 
thing but the part that like, 

2078
01:44:48,900 --> 01:44:51,400
maybe she could see through 
where it was or maybe she did 

2079
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:54,700
have green Gene for, maybe she 
had something that gave her a 

2080
01:44:54,700 --> 01:44:57,400
magical Edge. 
He claimed he hears miles right 

2081
01:44:57,400 --> 01:44:58,800
by the I love face. 
Yeah. 

2082
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:01,800
You'll like yeah, it's yeah, you
it's in that area. 

2083
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:04,200
Yeah. 
That mystical Zone a hinge of 

2084
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:07,100
the world ish. 
Maybe he also claims she used 

2085
01:45:07,100 --> 01:45:09,700
love potions. 
Which honestly this one. 

2086
01:45:09,700 --> 01:45:12,400
I think he has to to keep his 
story straight. 

2087
01:45:12,500 --> 01:45:15,400
Straight because he's the source
of the claim that there was 

2088
01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:18,700
competition for Alice Rivers as 
love and he claims. 

2089
01:45:18,700 --> 01:45:21,800
That Kristen call was one of the
ones competing for her, which 

2090
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:24,900
this is completely at odds with 
his earlier claim that Kristen 

2091
01:45:24,900 --> 01:45:28,300
was is virtuous and chaste as an
agent septum. 

2092
01:45:28,300 --> 01:45:32,100
So the only way guy like that is
gonna go for anyone as whip love

2093
01:45:32,100 --> 01:45:34,700
potions. 
I think that's pretty strong 

2094
01:45:34,700 --> 01:45:39,300
evidence that this is a false 
claim at least of love potions. 

2095
01:45:40,100 --> 01:45:43,000
Yeah, exceptional of portion is 
claimed, by the way, it's more 

2096
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:44,900
evidence. 
Mushroom seeming to contradict 

2097
01:45:44,900 --> 01:45:47,300
himself. 
It's just two stories from two 

2098
01:45:47,300 --> 01:45:48,800
people from two times here like 
it. 

2099
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:50,200
Yep, good call. 
Good call. 

2100
01:45:50,700 --> 01:45:55,700
He's the source for the brothel 
Queens, which is such a wild 

2101
01:45:55,700 --> 01:45:57,000
story. 
That you would think there was 

2102
01:45:57,000 --> 01:45:59,800
corroboration, if that really 
happens, Sean there without it. 

2103
01:45:59,800 --> 01:46:04,300
This is a thing where some 
Royals were forced to be used at

2104
01:46:04,300 --> 01:46:07,000
set forced into sex work in a 
brothel, in a brothel. 

2105
01:46:07,100 --> 01:46:10,200
Yeah. 
So it's like what like a And 

2106
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:12,700
this would be robber like there 
would be a lot of witnesses to 

2107
01:46:12,700 --> 01:46:15,700
this if it really happened. 
So it's kind of it could have 

2108
01:46:15,700 --> 01:46:18,500
been concealed after the fact 
but it's hard to accept because 

2109
01:46:18,500 --> 01:46:21,000
it would be hard to conceal 
something like that. 

2110
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:24,100
Especially for multiple women 
have been forced into this. 

2111
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:28,200
Although there was the source I 
mentioned earlier where there 

2112
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:31,000
was the incident where a woman 
was supposedly concealed in a 

2113
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:33,800
London cook shop for several 
weeks and nobody knew about it 

2114
01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:37,000
except for one source. 
I mean just to play Devil's 

2115
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:40,900
Advocate briefly maybe but I 
still think it's highly unlikely

2116
01:46:40,900 --> 01:46:43,700
given the identities of the two 
women involved gotcha. 

2117
01:46:44,700 --> 01:46:47,400
He claims that Damon and nettles
were lovers now Shawn you 

2118
01:46:47,407 --> 01:46:50,200
haven't met Nettles yet, you 
will eventually and some of you 

2119
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:53,400
who've read fire blood will be 
instantly like hey, I don't 

2120
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:55,800
think so. 
There's more people say I feel 

2121
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:59,500
strongly yes and frankly, 
there's some compelling 

2122
01:46:59,500 --> 01:47:02,600
Arguments for and against it the
arguments against it are the 

2123
01:47:02,700 --> 01:47:05,400
local history of maidenpool 
where much of this took place 

2124
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:08,300
says. 
No, but their counter evidence 

2125
01:47:08,300 --> 01:47:10,100
is not very good. 
They're like, oh damn, I 

2126
01:47:10,100 --> 01:47:14,100
wouldn't sleep with her he was 
old and she was young like, no, 

2127
01:47:14,100 --> 01:47:16,500
that's not counter-evidence. 
He also they also claimed she 

2128
01:47:16,500 --> 01:47:19,300
wasn't good looking enough which
is like I don't think that's 

2129
01:47:19,300 --> 01:47:21,300
very good evidence either. 
Yeah. 

2130
01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:23,600
But they do claim. 
It was more of a daughter. 

2131
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:27,000
Ali fought like he doted on her 
which is that is believable, you

2132
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,100
know. 
So that will be busy. 

2133
01:47:29,100 --> 01:47:30,900
A lot of these will be very 
interesting to see how the TV 

2134
01:47:30,900 --> 01:47:33,400
handles them or just doesn't use
them. 

2135
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:36,300
Yeah, for all of these. 
But yeah, sometimes for things 

2136
01:47:36,300 --> 01:47:39,600
when it's sometimes the TV show 
chooses a direction I'm like yes

2137
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:42,500
this It's like makes it crack 
Cannon to me for I don't know, I

2138
01:47:42,508 --> 01:47:45,100
don't know what variables go 
into it that like shows that 

2139
01:47:45,100 --> 01:47:48,000
improves it as Cannon to me, but
sometimes it does, sometimes 

2140
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:50,200
they choose something and I'm 
like I still think it could go 

2141
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:52,000
either way and Fire and Blood. 
Yeah. 

2142
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,100
And honestly with the Nettles 
thing I think they could go 

2143
01:47:55,100 --> 01:47:57,700
either way and I don't think I 
would be like this is proof and 

2144
01:47:57,700 --> 01:48:00,400
Fire and Blood that it's one way
or another to me. 

2145
01:48:00,500 --> 01:48:03,200
Hmm, I don't know. 
That anything will ever decide 

2146
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:06,300
it for the history of the actual
history of the text, but I'll 

2147
01:48:06,300 --> 01:48:09,700
ever feel like I know even when 
I see it on screen, hmm. 

2148
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:12,300
As yeah, there's definitely been
things like, no, this is like 

2149
01:48:12,300 --> 01:48:14,200
what we were talking about some 
of it earlier but definitely 

2150
01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:15,900
some worm-like know. 
This is this is correct. 

2151
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:16,700
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

2152
01:48:16,700 --> 01:48:18,700
I can enrich. 
Listen and not just had Cannon 

2153
01:48:18,700 --> 01:48:22,400
but it there's supporting 
evidence as well as just we want

2154
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:25,600
to believe it but like visenya 
is birth, that was woken. 

2155
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:28,800
Write to me for whatever reason,
there's no doubt that that was 

2156
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:32,700
the cannon and Fire and Blood. 
I still have room for doubt for 

2157
01:48:32,700 --> 01:48:34,500
other situations. 
Good example. 

2158
01:48:34,500 --> 01:48:37,300
Yeah, perfect. 
So I wanted to have in this 

2159
01:48:37,300 --> 01:48:39,700
episode lat, some examples of 
surprising agreement. 

2160
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:42,400
Are it's surprising that 
mushroom and use disagree, or 

2161
01:48:42,400 --> 01:48:44,200
that, mushroom. 
And some other source agree. 

2162
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:47,500
I didn't find a lot of those 
probably because when they 

2163
01:48:47,500 --> 01:48:49,800
agree, it's not interesting, 
that's not included. 

2164
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:52,000
So unless it's a really 
controversial thing that they're

2165
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:55,000
like, but we have multiple 
sources agree that it actually 

2166
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:58,000
happened, which is a way of 
something that seems unlikely, 

2167
01:48:58,000 --> 01:48:59,700
that's when you would want to 
provide agreement from the 

2168
01:48:59,700 --> 01:49:02,500
sources to say, no, look this, 
this is actually probably really

2169
01:49:02,500 --> 01:49:03,100
did happen. 
Yeah. 

2170
01:49:03,100 --> 01:49:05,400
So, plenty of times that you 
must end at the source, they 

2171
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:09,100
might have agreed, but there was
no reason for gilday and to say,

2172
01:49:09,300 --> 01:49:11,000
they Bowl. 
There's no reason for the point 

2173
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:12,900
that I really Believers the 
point, if you just endlessly, 

2174
01:49:12,900 --> 01:49:15,400
like the sources agree on this 
thing every sentence we like the

2175
01:49:15,407 --> 01:49:17,300
sources agree. 
Mrs. Orson, yeah. 

2176
01:49:17,300 --> 01:49:19,400
I would be this isn't a 
spreadsheet. 

2177
01:49:19,700 --> 01:49:21,800
Like you said Kavita. 
It's supposed to be 

2178
01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:24,900
entertaining, especially this 
one because it's baked history, 

2179
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:28,600
but even real history is has a 
narrative to it. 

2180
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:32,600
So the example here of 
surprising agreement is that 

2181
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:36,800
both mushroom and use disagree 
that Carl Quarry, killed Leonor,

2182
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:39,100
which of course, the show. 
Threw us for a loop there and 

2183
01:49:39,100 --> 01:49:41,100
having Carl Us to be part of the
plot. 

2184
01:49:41,400 --> 01:49:43,200
It was sudden, it was twist. 
Yeah. 

2185
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:45,000
We're like, whoa, we didn't see 
that coming. 

2186
01:49:45,500 --> 01:49:49,900
But mushroom ads, they agree on 
that mushroom adds the Daemon, 

2187
01:49:49,900 --> 01:49:52,300
paid him to do it, which was 
also portrayed. 

2188
01:49:52,300 --> 01:49:55,300
The show is Damon, paying him to
be a part of it but not actually

2189
01:49:55,300 --> 01:49:56,300
kill him. 
Yeah. 

2190
01:49:56,300 --> 01:50:00,800
But then mushroom also adds that
Damon been had Carl murdered 

2191
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:03,500
after employing. 
Carl to do his dirty work which 

2192
01:50:03,500 --> 01:50:07,400
well Carl did bit here. 
They both disabled Loose Ends. 

2193
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:09,700
Yeah. 
Well the spirits that could yet 

2194
01:50:09,900 --> 01:50:11,700
Yes, they do both disappear. 
So does that all fit? 

2195
01:50:11,700 --> 01:50:14,000
So this is a good one where they
agree on the initial part that 

2196
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:17,400
mushroom ads, like, more 
scurrilous details that fit. 

2197
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:20,400
If Damon was willing to pay a 
man to kill lane or he would 

2198
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:21,900
probably want to cover his 
tracks. 

2199
01:50:24,100 --> 01:50:27,800
I haven't really entertained the
idea of whether passing the 

2200
01:50:27,808 --> 01:50:29,900
dragons can and could be 
correct. 

2201
01:50:29,900 --> 01:50:33,900
Like is it theoretically 
possible in Fire and Blood that 

2202
01:50:33,900 --> 01:50:36,000
the house was dragons, was more 
accurate than this? 

2203
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,600
I don't think so, but I don't 
know that I have any proof. 

2204
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:41,300
That means that it could 
Couldn't be the case. 

2205
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:44,000
In this case, maybe knocks, I 
think they had lenore's body. 

2206
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:46,900
Okay, that's my question is, if 
there was harm through my 

2207
01:50:46,900 --> 01:50:49,700
positive and his body, yeah, 
they had leaders body. 

2208
01:50:49,700 --> 01:50:51,200
Anybody, anybody? 
Yeah? 

2209
01:50:51,700 --> 01:50:53,100
They had a bond. 
Yeah. 

2210
01:50:53,700 --> 01:50:57,400
Whether it was actually laying 
or his body is entirely separate

2211
01:50:57,400 --> 01:50:58,300
question. 
Yeah. 

2212
01:50:58,300 --> 01:51:01,000
Because in the show the book 
there's no like burned body to 

2213
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:02,800
throw that off. 
Like that was just well. 

2214
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:05,700
Okay, so like, here's where I'm 
going with this as well is Carl.

2215
01:51:05,700 --> 01:51:07,900
It was like happened in public. 
Like Lena was Fab. 

2216
01:51:07,900 --> 01:51:09,700
Yeah. 
Look, it happened in suppose. 

2217
01:51:09,900 --> 01:51:11,400
Italy at how? 
Well, this is my take on it, is 

2218
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:13,300
that George? 
I mean, I've watched on about 

2219
01:51:13,300 --> 01:51:16,500
this that I Dorchester made his 
mind up for a lot of situations,

2220
01:51:16,500 --> 01:51:18,700
right. 
He hasn't decided yet, that's 

2221
01:51:18,700 --> 01:51:20,600
what makes it easier for him to 
write that. 

2222
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:23,100
He has that. 
Oh, he's commented on it, right?

2223
01:51:23,300 --> 01:51:26,100
So, my take is that are there 
things in House of the dragon 

2224
01:51:26,100 --> 01:51:29,400
that he sees on screen and he's 
like, that's my new headcanon. 

2225
01:51:29,500 --> 01:51:32,700
Like yeah, he has not done 
anything in the Fire and Blood. 

2226
01:51:32,700 --> 01:51:35,500
That means this could not be the
case and if it possible that he 

2227
01:51:35,500 --> 01:51:40,500
could watch that and be like, 
hmm, stroke my chin, Actually, I

2228
01:51:40,700 --> 01:51:42,800
know more about this lane or did
survive. 

2229
01:51:42,800 --> 01:51:47,500
Like, I think that the text does
not preclude that from happening

2230
01:51:47,500 --> 01:51:50,000
whether I think that that could 
be the anything but I think it's

2231
01:51:50,300 --> 01:51:52,200
still possible. 
Hmm. 

2232
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:55,900
I say let's all let's all 
proposed the headcanon my lane 

2233
01:51:55,900 --> 01:51:57,900
or goes off and becomes a 
gentleman pirate. 

2234
01:51:57,900 --> 01:52:11,200
Yeah. 
Up on that will see them. 

2235
01:52:11,900 --> 01:52:13,200
I would like to see. 
Yeah. 

2236
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:15,700
I'd like to see them at least, 
sort of call back to it. 

2237
01:52:15,700 --> 01:52:17,000
It's some. 
Yeah. 

2238
01:52:17,100 --> 01:52:20,300
I would I took the blue Valerian
flag added some purple to it. 

2239
01:52:20,400 --> 01:52:24,900
Yeah, there you go. 
Okay, so here's an example of 

2240
01:52:24,900 --> 01:52:28,000
where they somewhat disagree, 
and there's some discussions 

2241
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:32,000
that come from that one that's 
kind of maybe it relevant on 

2242
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:36,400
terms of the disagreement. 
But it shows how the sources can

2243
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:40,200
differ on even when it isn't a 
matter of, Substance 

2244
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:42,300
necessarily. 
Although in this case maybe it 

2245
01:52:42,300 --> 01:52:44,000
is here's what we're talking 
about. 

2246
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:47,400
The death of Lord bees burry 
everyone basically blames 

2247
01:52:47,400 --> 01:52:51,500
criston Cole but there's some 
differences on how he was 

2248
01:52:51,500 --> 01:52:52,900
killed. 
Whether his toss out a window, 

2249
01:52:52,900 --> 01:52:55,600
whether his throat was cut and 
the show, had a third version, 

2250
01:52:56,100 --> 01:52:59,000
only one dissenting voice. 
There says bees where he was 

2251
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:02,100
arrested by criston Cole and 
died in captivity and that's 

2252
01:53:02,500 --> 01:53:07,500
Grand maester or while. 
So, even though Orwell's take is

2253
01:53:08,100 --> 01:53:12,800
not repeated by anyone else. 
While was actually there but we 

2254
01:53:12,800 --> 01:53:16,800
don't actually have or Wiles 
account we have monk ins account

2255
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:21,900
of or Wiles account was kind of 
notably tried to cover his own 

2256
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:24,100
his own ass. 
Yes, and we know where I'll try 

2257
01:53:24,100 --> 01:53:26,200
to cover his own but yes, you're
right about that. 

2258
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:29,000
So there's a multiple reason not
to just take or wild face value 

2259
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:32,800
because it's not face value and 
he might be lying monk in is 

2260
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:35,900
also the example Tyrion sites is
incorrect while discussing the 

2261
01:53:35,900 --> 01:53:39,200
tale of Sir Byron Swann 
attempting to repeat the tale of

2262
01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:40,700
Sir went. 
The mirror Shield so we have 

2263
01:53:40,700 --> 01:53:43,900
another example of Monk and 
being wrong to support the idea.

2264
01:53:43,900 --> 01:53:47,000
That monk ins shouldn't be 
believed when discussing or 

2265
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:50,800
Wellness Cyril, you know, it's 
not proof but it's cast doubt on

2266
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:53,300
monk ins accounts General and 
here's where we point out in 

2267
01:53:53,300 --> 01:53:55,800
general as well. 
Eustace was biased towards the 

2268
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:59,000
greens and mushroom towards 
blacks but also or while kind of

2269
01:53:59,008 --> 01:54:01,500
favored the blacks which is a 
little interesting, but that's 

2270
01:54:01,500 --> 01:54:03,000
mostly because of just how 
things went afterwards. 

2271
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:05,300
This is a great case of or 
whilst trying to save his own 

2272
01:54:05,300 --> 01:54:12,300
skin, most likely and if Monken 
new or while Was being pro black

2273
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:14,300
in his analysis. 
He may have tried to correct for

2274
01:54:14,300 --> 01:54:15,400
that. 
He's like, okay, I know this 

2275
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:18,200
Source was biased. 
So let me try to undo some of 

2276
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:20,700
this bias in my version of it, 
but you may not have done a very

2277
01:54:20,700 --> 01:54:23,200
good job of that. 
What is that something? 

2278
01:54:23,200 --> 01:54:28,100
We see Kavita out in the real 
world of an author interpreting 

2279
01:54:28,100 --> 01:54:30,700
someone else's Source, starting 
a source of bias and trying to 

2280
01:54:30,700 --> 01:54:32,600
like filter some of that bias 
Out. 

2281
01:54:33,500 --> 01:54:40,500
Boy, easiest, ya authors are 
Constantly taught like 

2282
01:54:40,500 --> 01:54:42,700
chroniclers are constantly 
talking over each other, 

2283
01:54:42,700 --> 01:54:44,600
especially if they're coming 
from different historical 

2284
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:46,700
Traditions. 
You will have chronically will 

2285
01:54:46,700 --> 01:54:49,900
have like one set of chronic was
absolutely shitting on the other

2286
01:54:49,900 --> 01:54:53,700
came before them saying like 
those guys had no idea what they

2287
01:54:53,700 --> 01:54:55,300
were talking about. 
They did not know how to write 

2288
01:54:55,300 --> 01:54:58,100
history. 
I know how to write back and I 

2289
01:54:58,100 --> 01:55:00,000
have looked at everything 
they've said and everything they

2290
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:04,800
say is wrong. 
There are entire rants embedded 

2291
01:55:04,800 --> 01:55:09,100
in these Chronicles, about how X
historian is completely wrong 

2292
01:55:09,100 --> 01:55:12,400
and no one should It's even 
better when it when the 

2293
01:55:12,400 --> 01:55:13,800
religious conflict enters into 
it. 

2294
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:16,100
Because then you have like 
Protestant historian screaming 

2295
01:55:16,100 --> 01:55:18,900
at Catholic historians who are 
screaming back and it's a whole.

2296
01:55:21,100 --> 01:55:25,700
So another one that we sort of 
saw on TV a little bit at least 

2297
01:55:25,700 --> 01:55:29,300
a version of it is when or while
delivers the message to Rainier 

2298
01:55:29,300 --> 01:55:31,200
is court that a gun is taking 
the throne on the show. 

2299
01:55:31,200 --> 01:55:34,300
It's Auto Hightower leading that
with more Wells just kind of 

2300
01:55:34,300 --> 01:55:38,600
standing there in the book 
version or while is the leader 

2301
01:55:38,600 --> 01:55:41,600
of the delegation. 
A monk and claims or allows 

2302
01:55:41,600 --> 01:55:46,000
erudite which again Monken was 
using or Wiles own while 

2303
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:47,700
claiming he was erudite as like,
okay? 

2304
01:55:47,700 --> 01:55:49,500
Yeah, sure. 
You were mushroom, says he 

2305
01:55:49,500 --> 01:55:53,000
stammered and voided. 
His bladder mushroom was there. 

2306
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:57,300
So he has usual standard caveat 
Supply. 

2307
01:55:57,500 --> 01:55:59,700
Why not both? 
Yeah, it was Aaron eyes. 

2308
01:55:59,700 --> 01:56:02,800
Water a day. 
Wow, the fluid was leaking down 

2309
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:03,800
his leg. 
Yeah. 

2310
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:07,900
Maybe he started off erudite, 
but also really needed to pee. 

2311
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:11,500
Hold it goes. 
He Alabama. 

2312
01:56:11,500 --> 01:56:14,300
Yeah, we were told it goes in. 
He's delivering he's discussing 

2313
01:56:14,300 --> 01:56:16,500
and then and Rainier starts to 
kind of intimidate him and he's 

2314
01:56:16,500 --> 01:56:18,500
like starts to back down a 
little bit. 

2315
01:56:18,500 --> 01:56:22,200
Erudite and then had a dragon 
like poke out and he's like, oh 

2316
01:56:22,400 --> 01:56:26,000
I'm sorry, yeah I'm just cool, 
which is understandable yet 

2317
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:28,600
another, why not both? 
Yeah that's that's cool. 

2318
01:56:29,300 --> 01:56:30,600
Okay, so here's a really good 
one. 

2319
01:56:30,700 --> 01:56:32,700
Here's a really good, is it? 
This is one of the deeper ones. 

2320
01:56:32,700 --> 01:56:36,200
We have here used his claims 
viserys died in his sleep. 

2321
01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:38,500
Mushroom claims Alison. 
Poisoned him mushroom. 

2322
01:56:38,500 --> 01:56:41,400
Wasn't there. 
Kavita and Nina had a great 

2323
01:56:41,400 --> 01:56:44,800
spirited debate here in the in 
our document, why don't you take

2324
01:56:44,800 --> 01:56:47,500
us through some of the points 
that were made on both sides? 

2325
01:56:47,500 --> 01:56:49,300
And what came of this? 
Because it's really interesting 

2326
01:56:49,300 --> 01:56:52,500
but it's also a lot for us. 
It's a ton. 

2327
01:56:52,500 --> 01:56:54,400
Yeah. 
Like I think we actually came 

2328
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:57,100
out on the same side at the end 
of it. 

2329
01:56:57,100 --> 01:57:00,200
I think partly, it was my sort 
of not expressing myself very 

2330
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:01,500
clearly. 
But essentially, what I was 

2331
01:57:01,500 --> 01:57:04,000
saying was I really liked the 
way that house with the dragon 

2332
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:08,400
dealt with this because they had
Damon be the one who's like, oh,

2333
01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:12,500
the saris was poisoned and It 
looks at him and goes no, the 

2334
01:57:12,500 --> 01:57:14,800
service who we just saw who was 
literally rotting from the 

2335
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:18,200
inside of our journey towards 
like, no reason to poison that 

2336
01:57:18,200 --> 01:57:19,600
guy. 
All you had to do was wait five,

2337
01:57:19,600 --> 01:57:22,000
they just push him over and help
out yet. 

2338
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:25,200
Yeah, breathe on him. 
The service is illness and Fire 

2339
01:57:25,200 --> 01:57:30,100
and Blood is not described as 
quite on the level, as it was on

2340
01:57:30,100 --> 01:57:32,400
the show on the show. 
It was clearly a theme attic 

2341
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:34,500
point. 
It was clearly meant to kite 

2342
01:57:34,500 --> 01:57:36,600
like the land and the King are 
both rotting and all that. 

2343
01:57:36,608 --> 01:57:39,500
Like it was a whole thing. 
Whereas in fire. 

2344
01:57:39,700 --> 01:57:42,200
And blood. 
What we get is a very gradual 

2345
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:46,600
decline over a period of two 
decades, viserys becomes Less 

2346
01:57:46,600 --> 01:57:50,700
Mobile, he develops, gout he 
starts having kind of trouble 

2347
01:57:50,700 --> 01:57:54,400
with his heart. 
Very typical parts of kind of 

2348
01:57:54,407 --> 01:57:56,500
advanced aging only. 
They're happening when he's a 

2349
01:57:56,500 --> 01:58:01,000
little bit younger because of 
yeah, partly like he's partying 

2350
01:58:01,000 --> 01:58:03,300
too hard. 
He's a party King and we didn't 

2351
01:58:03,300 --> 01:58:05,400
get that in the show. 
He wasn't a party King in the 

2352
01:58:05,400 --> 01:58:07,000
show or at least not after the 
first episode. 

2353
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:09,900
We saw a party King, Becerra 
sand, the first episode of Just 

2354
01:58:09,900 --> 01:58:13,000
kind of vanished. 
Yeah, but in fire and blood, the

2355
01:58:13,008 --> 01:58:15,700
party King is kind of there the 
whole time. 

2356
01:58:15,700 --> 01:58:19,200
It's not quite on the level of 
Robert Baratheon, we don't get 

2357
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:22,900
kind of the binge drinking and 
the womanizing on the same 

2358
01:58:22,900 --> 01:58:25,400
bubble. 
But we did, there's so many 

2359
01:58:25,400 --> 01:58:27,100
descriptions of how he loved to 
eat. 

2360
01:58:27,100 --> 01:58:29,900
He loved to go to tournaments, 
he didn't participate in them 

2361
01:58:29,900 --> 01:58:32,800
but he liked watch them. 
And he, he like all of those 

2362
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:34,700
things. 
And there's also this reference 

2363
01:58:34,700 --> 01:58:38,500
that Nina made by the end of his
life and 129, AC, viserys is 

2364
01:58:38,500 --> 01:58:39,900
chest. 
Pain said, Groan. 

2365
01:58:39,900 --> 01:58:41,900
So severe that he could no 
longer climb a flight of stairs.

2366
01:58:41,900 --> 01:58:44,400
So that's very you think? 
Yeah. 

2367
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:48,400
The writing on the wall and then
Andre happens and the hand 

2368
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:51,200
injury happens and it goes 
gangrenous. 

2369
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:54,100
And my Rainier is Meister is 
apparently able to kind of 

2370
01:58:54,100 --> 01:58:57,300
amputate his fingers and solve 
the problem temporarily. 

2371
01:58:57,700 --> 01:59:01,000
But having a wound like that, 
when you're older is going to be

2372
01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:04,700
a problem. 
So all of these things are there

2373
01:59:04,700 --> 01:59:07,900
and I talked about kind of not 
just sort of historical 

2374
01:59:07,900 --> 01:59:10,100
precedence for this, which 
again, was In the fourth y 

2375
01:59:10,100 --> 01:59:13,500
talked about earlier but one of 
the things that I also wanted to

2376
01:59:13,500 --> 01:59:17,200
bring up is this idea of not 
what happened? 

2377
01:59:17,200 --> 01:59:19,700
But the perception of what 
happened. 

2378
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,300
So mushroom is the one who 
brings up the rumor that 

2379
01:59:23,300 --> 01:59:24,900
alicent. 
Poison viserys. 

2380
01:59:25,500 --> 01:59:29,600
I don't think he brings it up 
because anyone actually believes

2381
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:33,500
that Alison poison viserys, but 
it's there for political 

2382
01:59:33,500 --> 01:59:38,900
reasons, anytime a monarch dies,
unless a bunch of people saw it 

2383
01:59:38,900 --> 01:59:41,100
happen. 
And there's going to be at least

2384
01:59:41,100 --> 01:59:42,400
one person who says. 
Oh yeah, maybe. 

2385
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:45,500
So it was poisoned, that always 
happens. 

2386
01:59:45,700 --> 01:59:48,700
Pretty much any time. 
A medieval early, modern Monarch

2387
01:59:48,700 --> 01:59:53,100
died unless it was something 
that was very, blatantly obvious

2388
01:59:53,200 --> 01:59:55,000
but death in battle, maybe. 
Yeah. 

2389
01:59:55,000 --> 01:59:56,300
Death and back like no one 
thought. 

2390
01:59:56,300 --> 01:59:58,500
Richard the third was poisoned 
because he had a knife through 

2391
01:59:58,500 --> 02:00:02,700
his head. 
Poison knife. 

2392
02:00:09,700 --> 02:00:11,700
You saw him die. 
Very like a Hartley, but there's

2393
02:00:11,700 --> 02:00:13,300
still those theories about that.
Yeah. 

2394
02:00:13,300 --> 02:00:16,400
There are serious about Ty would
be poison, people believed 

2395
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:18,300
Edward, the Fourth had been 
poisoned because he caught 

2396
02:00:18,300 --> 02:00:21,400
pneumonia very good support. 
Like modern historians believe 

2397
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:23,000
that was probably pneumonia that
killed him. 

2398
02:00:23,500 --> 02:00:26,900
But he caught, he fell ill very 
quickly and died within the 

2399
02:00:26,900 --> 02:00:30,200
space of a couple of weeks. 
So people immediately went, oh 

2400
02:00:30,200 --> 02:00:33,600
my God, maybe he was poisoned, 
but most likely not that's 

2401
02:00:33,600 --> 02:00:34,600
almost certainly not. 
What happened? 

2402
02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:36,600
Same thing with Henry, the 
eighth had really had a very 

2403
02:00:36,600 --> 02:00:40,400
long debilitating illness and he
finally He died. 

2404
02:00:40,400 --> 02:00:43,000
But again, people were like, oh,
maybe he was poisoned probably 

2405
02:00:43,000 --> 02:00:44,700
not. 
Probably, he died because he had

2406
02:00:44,700 --> 02:00:48,800
a really bad illness again. 
Like any time a kid any time a 

2407
02:00:48,808 --> 02:00:51,800
monarch died from an illness. 
That wasn't obvious. 

2408
02:00:51,800 --> 02:00:54,700
If it was the people onic 
plague, everybody knew but if it

2409
02:00:54,700 --> 02:00:57,800
was just some sort of 
respiratory thing, no one could 

2410
02:00:57,800 --> 02:01:00,500
have been sure. 
And also from mushrooms 

2411
02:01:00,500 --> 02:01:04,600
perspective, given the timing 
which happened when rhaenyra was

2412
02:01:04,700 --> 02:01:10,100
unable to do anything about 
claiming her throne you See how 

2413
02:01:10,100 --> 02:01:12,600
mushroom would want to put out. 
And it's like, oh yeah, maybe 

2414
02:01:12,600 --> 02:01:15,200
she was poisoned, maybe this was
on purpose, maybe the timing is 

2415
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:17,600
just too good. 
But again, mushroom wasn't 

2416
02:01:17,600 --> 02:01:20,200
there. 
And if we actually look, and 

2417
02:01:20,208 --> 02:01:22,500
this is what Nina points out. 
If we actually look at it from 

2418
02:01:22,500 --> 02:01:25,300
the greens perspective, it 
doesn't make sense for the 

2419
02:01:25,300 --> 02:01:27,500
greens. 
It was to their advantage to 

2420
02:01:27,500 --> 02:01:30,100
have the Sarah's alive because 
he was their puppet cake. 

2421
02:01:30,700 --> 02:01:34,600
And as soon as he died, they 
knew there was going to be a 

2422
02:01:34,600 --> 02:01:37,200
succession crisis. 
Yes, so stringing it out to get 

2423
02:01:37,200 --> 02:01:38,800
their ducks in a row in a sense.
Yeah. 

2424
02:01:39,100 --> 02:01:41,000
Yeah. 
They, they wouldn't want him to 

2425
02:01:41,000 --> 02:01:45,500
die until and unless he 
explicitly named a ganas, are 

2426
02:01:45,500 --> 02:01:47,100
ya. 
Which as far as we know, he 

2427
02:01:47,100 --> 02:01:50,600
never did, right? 
Or until the kids have more 

2428
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:52,800
battle experience. 
The dragons are bigger. 

2429
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:54,300
Some. 
Yeah, that was one thought I had

2430
02:01:54,300 --> 02:01:57,700
to in this discussion with it. 
I felt like Nina made a lot of 

2431
02:01:57,900 --> 02:02:01,300
points as to why the greens 
logically wouldn't want to 

2432
02:02:01,300 --> 02:02:03,800
poison him. 
But I don't think it's safe to 

2433
02:02:03,800 --> 02:02:05,100
assume the greens are all 
logical. 

2434
02:02:05,100 --> 02:02:06,600
Someone could have been a 
logical. 

2435
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:08,700
She's on. 
Could have made a mistake 

2436
02:02:08,700 --> 02:02:10,800
someone who wasn't there. 
Instead of what I still, don't 

2437
02:02:10,808 --> 02:02:14,700
think it's likely but I do think
it's reasonable to consider how 

2438
02:02:14,700 --> 02:02:17,700
or why someone might have done 
it or why someone might want to 

2439
02:02:17,700 --> 02:02:18,500
spread that rumor. 
Again. 

2440
02:02:18,500 --> 02:02:21,400
If we think there's some agenda 
behind mushrooms, writings, or 

2441
02:02:21,400 --> 02:02:24,800
the person who collected his 
writings, I think there's decent

2442
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:28,100
motivation for someone to want 
to have the suspicion going, 

2443
02:02:28,200 --> 02:02:30,300
even if there's no logical 
reason for it. 

2444
02:02:30,300 --> 02:02:33,000
And even if there's no logical 
reason for it sometimes people 

2445
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:35,000
are illogical to. 
So that's also a factor. 

2446
02:02:35,300 --> 02:02:36,200
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

2447
02:02:36,600 --> 02:02:40,400
And my perspective was basically
from Sort of looking at it from 

2448
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:43,000
a historical writing perspective
because the last time I was on 

2449
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:46,300
this podcast, one of the things 
that I mentioned was the death 

2450
02:02:46,300 --> 02:02:50,200
of King Henry, the sixth in 
1471, and it's reportage and 

2451
02:02:50,208 --> 02:02:53,100
multiple sources. 
The ones who are favorable to 

2452
02:02:53,100 --> 02:02:57,300
the king, who replaced him, 
talked about how he died from 

2453
02:02:57,300 --> 02:03:00,400
quote, pure displeasure and 
Melancholy because that's the 

2454
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:03,100
thing people die from the more 
ambivalent one's claimed, that 

2455
02:03:03,100 --> 02:03:05,700
he died mysteriously in the 
Tower of London, but declined to

2456
02:03:05,708 --> 02:03:08,800
mention a cause and then the 
later more hostile ones accused 

2457
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:11,700
someone Specifically, Richard of
Gloucester of hat later, 

2458
02:03:11,700 --> 02:03:13,400
Richard, the third of having 
stabbed him. 

2459
02:03:14,100 --> 02:03:17,600
So you can see kind of the 
progression of how these sources

2460
02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:20,400
build on each other and we see 
this happening in Fire and Blood

2461
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:23,000
as well. 
While I do not believe that the 

2462
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:26,400
greens poison viserys. 
I'm absolutely 100% of the, he 

2463
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:30,500
died of natural causes Camp, the
pieces, are there for people 

2464
02:03:30,500 --> 02:03:33,900
hostile, to the greens, to make 
the claim and to make that claim

2465
02:03:33,900 --> 02:03:36,700
stick. 
Mmm, even if the greens were not

2466
02:03:36,700 --> 02:03:39,400
responsible, people, probably 
believe they done. 

2467
02:03:39,500 --> 02:03:43,800
In it at least in part because 
they are scrambling to hide the 

2468
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:47,000
fact that the saris is dead and 
people are going to look at that

2469
02:03:47,000 --> 02:03:48,600
they're going to go well why are
you doing that? 

2470
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:52,700
If you're not guilty but the 
fact is that what they're likely

2471
02:03:52,700 --> 02:03:56,800
doing is they're reacting to 
something, unexpected rather 

2472
02:03:56,800 --> 02:03:59,600
than proceeding along with a 
plan that they had already 

2473
02:03:59,600 --> 02:04:03,900
arranged. 
I see like in the show, we saw 

2474
02:04:03,900 --> 02:04:06,900
Damon even if Damon thought 
about it and realized the greens

2475
02:04:06,900 --> 02:04:09,400
won't poison him. 
Damn is not thinking logically. 

2476
02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:12,300
And even if you did logically, 
think about it realize they 

2477
02:04:12,300 --> 02:04:14,200
wouldn't have a good motivation 
of poisoner. 

2478
02:04:14,700 --> 02:04:17,200
It's still good motivation for 
him to Rally people to war 

2479
02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:18,500
propaganda. 
Use that price. 

2480
02:04:18,500 --> 02:04:20,700
He's like, any anything goes, 
he's not, he doesn't care if 

2481
02:04:20,700 --> 02:04:23,600
he's care about ethics in 
warlike, not Damon. 

2482
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:27,100
Now some people might and and 
people in Faraway lands, it 

2483
02:04:27,100 --> 02:04:29,800
don't know the details of the 
source of life and illness at 

2484
02:04:29,800 --> 02:04:33,100
court can easily be swayed by. 
Now, they don't know any details

2485
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:37,400
on a dragon saying, join me and 
battle because your king was 

2486
02:04:37,400 --> 02:04:39,900
poisoned, you know what I mean? 
Like, Totally true. 

2487
02:04:39,900 --> 02:04:41,700
Yeah, I totally see this 
argument. 

2488
02:04:41,700 --> 02:04:45,800
It's really well made and to add
to it a little bit with in this.

2489
02:04:45,800 --> 02:04:48,400
Fandom every Targaryen King 
every king of dies. 

2490
02:04:48,400 --> 02:04:49,500
Yeah. 
People are like, were they 

2491
02:04:49,500 --> 02:04:50,300
poisoned? 
Yeah. 

2492
02:04:50,300 --> 02:04:54,200
I like, like Balaam had a Daemon
and viserys his father died of a

2493
02:04:54,200 --> 02:04:56,800
stitch in his belly, like, 
people are like, what is it, was

2494
02:04:56,800 --> 02:04:59,000
he poisoned hand of the king 
like he was next in line? 

2495
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:02,400
Like yeah, there's theories 
there about that, and they're 

2496
02:05:02,400 --> 02:05:04,900
not totally invalid. 
There may be something to it and

2497
02:05:04,900 --> 02:05:08,000
that even vaguely gets brought 
up on the show and Otto gets 

2498
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:12,900
fired. 
I have a cat on my lap. 

2499
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:16,300
Oh, look at that lurks on. 
Anyone keep was not looking at 

2500
02:05:16,300 --> 02:05:19,200
the camera. 
The next one for mushroom, is 

2501
02:05:19,200 --> 02:05:24,700
that Lady Jane of the vale asked
Jace to go down on her in order 

2502
02:05:24,700 --> 02:05:30,100
to win the veils support and for
the dance of the dragons. 

2503
02:05:30,300 --> 02:05:33,200
No, no Jane, Erin is a lesbian. 
Everyone knows. 

2504
02:05:33,300 --> 02:05:38,600
Yeah, it did not happen. 
Not very likely percent chance. 

2505
02:05:38,600 --> 02:05:42,200
Yeah. 
Similarly categorized here, 

2506
02:05:42,200 --> 02:05:45,700
Eustace says iron Rod. 
The master of laws appointed by 

2507
02:05:45,700 --> 02:05:47,800
the greens. 
Got his nickname for his 

2508
02:05:47,800 --> 02:05:49,900
unbending attitudes on matters 
of law. 

2509
02:05:50,200 --> 02:05:53,600
But quote mushroom declares it 
iron Rod was named for the 

2510
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:57,900
stiffness of his member having 
Saturday, 29 children on for 

2511
02:05:57,900 --> 02:06:03,700
wise before the last died of 
exhaustion, why not both. 

2512
02:06:04,900 --> 02:06:07,400
Why can't your laws be as stiff 
as you remember? 

2513
02:06:08,800 --> 02:06:09,800
Exactly. 
Lee. 

2514
02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:12,300
Why not both? 
Yeah and there's some other 

2515
02:06:12,300 --> 02:06:14,500
examples here too. 
Like we got a dog and a cat on 

2516
02:06:14,500 --> 02:06:16,100
screen. 
Oh yeah. 

2517
02:06:17,300 --> 02:06:21,200
There's like mushroom, says this
but used to says this, sometimes

2518
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:25,300
that framing implies it's a 
contradiction, but it's usually 

2519
02:06:25,300 --> 02:06:29,100
just like if they just said Ang 
instead of but like mushroom 

2520
02:06:29,100 --> 02:06:32,700
says this and used to says this,
then you then you can actually 

2521
02:06:32,700 --> 02:06:36,800
set it up for, why not both. 
But I'll often it's framed as a 

2522
02:06:37,000 --> 02:06:38,200
competition between these 
things. 

2523
02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:41,200
When really option C should be 
included, which is, why not 

2524
02:06:41,200 --> 02:06:43,600
both? 
Yeah, which is maybe a flaw and 

2525
02:06:44,100 --> 02:06:47,800
not how far in blood is written 
but That maybe George wanted to 

2526
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:50,100
portray with how a lot of 
sources work. 

2527
02:06:50,300 --> 02:06:51,800
What do you think? 
Juan how history is Rich? 

2528
02:06:51,800 --> 02:06:53,700
Sure what you think about that? 
Could mean, is that is that 

2529
02:06:53,700 --> 02:06:56,800
accurate or it is? 
That is absolutely accurate that

2530
02:06:56,800 --> 02:07:01,300
like, that's the difference 
between and and but is Legion. 

2531
02:07:01,300 --> 02:07:04,700
And one of the things that you 
see in the early modern sources 

2532
02:07:04,700 --> 02:07:07,500
in particular, like the the big 
compilations of Chronicles that 

2533
02:07:07,500 --> 02:07:10,900
we see in the 16th century 17th 
century where they're 

2534
02:07:10,900 --> 02:07:13,400
essentially pulling together. 
All of these medieval sources 

2535
02:07:13,400 --> 02:07:17,600
into a giant book, one of the 
things that we see is These 

2536
02:07:17,900 --> 02:07:20,300
multiple accounts of the same 
thing where they say, so-and-so 

2537
02:07:20,300 --> 02:07:23,400
said this so-and-so said that 
so-and-so said that, you the 

2538
02:07:23,400 --> 02:07:27,200
reader you pick which one you 
like best, why they would 

2539
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:30,200
include that in the writing 
after these different options 

2540
02:07:30,300 --> 02:07:32,300
and I can't help. 
But think sometimes, by the way,

2541
02:07:32,900 --> 02:07:35,500
maybe neither. 
Especially if you're your 

2542
02:07:35,500 --> 02:07:38,600
sources are dubious in the first
place, maybe they know both or 

2543
02:07:38,600 --> 02:07:42,300
neither could be options. 
The, the story that I told 

2544
02:07:42,300 --> 02:07:45,800
earlier about where, where the 
typo change someone's age from 

2545
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:47,800
17 to L've. 
That's actually one of those 

2546
02:07:47,800 --> 02:07:51,000
instances where, like, multiple 
versions of the same story or 

2547
02:07:51,000 --> 02:07:55,300
put out there and people are 
like, well, the Stig says he's 

2548
02:07:55,300 --> 02:07:56,700
12 Mike. 
No, he wasn't 12. 

2549
02:07:56,700 --> 02:07:59,700
He was 17. 
It was an early type. 

2550
02:07:59,700 --> 02:08:05,000
Oh, okay. 
Well, we have a few more things 

2551
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:06,000
to get to. 
There's a couple things in the 

2552
02:08:06,000 --> 02:08:08,100
document here that we won't 
fight have time for. 

2553
02:08:08,100 --> 02:08:12,100
There's so many examples of 
mushroom and his resources, we 

2554
02:08:12,100 --> 02:08:21,200
don't have mushroom for hey One 
thing that we noticed here that 

2555
02:08:21,200 --> 02:08:24,400
is in Fire and Blood one like 
pattern, is that he seems pretty

2556
02:08:24,400 --> 02:08:29,200
anti Ament doesn't he he refers 
to amund at one point, he said 

2557
02:08:29,200 --> 02:08:32,100
he refers to the weather. 
Outside storms end, the night of

2558
02:08:32,100 --> 02:08:35,300
loose, areas his death as black 
as Prince, a man's heart. 

2559
02:08:36,400 --> 02:08:38,800
Ha ha ha. 
He's got it out for him. 

2560
02:08:38,900 --> 02:08:42,400
That is not mushroom was real. 
I feel like a man would be very 

2561
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:45,500
humorless and would really not 
like mushroom, and that they 

2562
02:08:45,508 --> 02:08:48,000
would be a real life. 
Doesn't like the guys who don't 

2563
02:08:48,000 --> 02:08:49,500
have a sense of humor. 
Yeah. 

2564
02:08:49,500 --> 02:08:51,200
So I think that laugh at my 
jokes. 

2565
02:08:51,200 --> 02:08:53,500
He's going to be the butt of my 
dream octagon. 

2566
02:08:53,500 --> 02:08:56,500
The third, for his lack of sense
of humor to an egg on the third 

2567
02:08:56,500 --> 02:08:59,500
visit, otherwise decent person, 
you know, traumatized poor kid, 

2568
02:08:59,500 --> 02:09:01,100
you know, and all that. 
But yeah, yeah. 

2569
02:09:01,100 --> 02:09:05,400
So yeah, I've got totally fits 
and as well it also fits because

2570
02:09:06,300 --> 02:09:09,900
The reaction to lucero's his 
death, which we saw at the end 

2571
02:09:09,900 --> 02:09:11,900
of season. 
If mushroom is there, he's gonna

2572
02:09:11,900 --> 02:09:15,800
feel her raw emotion, see their 
reaction, and he's maybe that's 

2573
02:09:15,800 --> 02:09:17,800
the emotional weather vane for 
him. 

2574
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:20,000
Like, this, is the guy that did 
that. 

2575
02:09:20,000 --> 02:09:23,400
And so it just for then from 
then on he's anti Amon because 

2576
02:09:24,200 --> 02:09:28,000
well, and he wasn't there like 
was account, like he was not 

2577
02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:29,900
physically there. 
He didn't see any of this, 

2578
02:09:29,900 --> 02:09:31,600
everything. 
He's getting his second or third

2579
02:09:31,600 --> 02:09:34,500
hand. 
He reports that aymond cut out 

2580
02:09:34,500 --> 02:09:38,500
Loose Terraces eyes and Of them 
to one of baratheon's 

2581
02:09:38,500 --> 02:09:42,500
daughter's. 
After the fact it's like where 

2582
02:09:42,500 --> 02:09:44,400
did he get the body? 
Didn't they got? 

2583
02:09:44,400 --> 02:09:45,500
Yeah. 
Where do ya? 

2584
02:09:45,500 --> 02:09:47,300
He found the bike. 
Exactly like yeah. 

2585
02:09:47,300 --> 02:09:48,800
If there was a body how did 
that? 

2586
02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:50,200
That he find it. 
Yeah. 

2587
02:09:50,900 --> 02:09:52,600
So that's that's not very easy 
to believe. 

2588
02:09:52,600 --> 02:09:54,600
Yeah. 
Okay let's talk about his best. 

2589
02:09:54,600 --> 02:09:57,000
Quips let's finish with that. 
There's quite a few good ones as

2590
02:09:57,000 --> 02:09:59,300
we can, we can talk about them 
and react to them and that'll be

2591
02:09:59,308 --> 02:10:02,000
a good way to finish. 
This is the thing we like to do 

2592
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:05,300
is with my other much, much 
smaller podcast, the podcast of 

2593
02:10:05,300 --> 02:10:08,600
surprise the which Podcast that 
we do we save all the jokes for 

2594
02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:12,300
the end and it's a good way to I
think to exit an episode with 

2595
02:10:12,300 --> 02:10:14,900
laughter. 
Yeah yeah branding with the wit 

2596
02:10:14,900 --> 02:10:16,000
and wisdom. 
That's sure. 

2597
02:10:16,008 --> 02:10:17,400
We're ending our any with the 
win with? 

2598
02:10:17,400 --> 02:10:21,400
Yeah you're right we couldn't 
find like Eustace is accounts 

2599
02:10:21,400 --> 02:10:26,200
work, very funny. 
So that's important to note 

2600
02:10:26,200 --> 02:10:28,200
though. 
Both did say bees burry spoke up

2601
02:10:28,200 --> 02:10:31,900
in a waspish tone which was 
that's a that's a little secret 

2602
02:10:31,900 --> 02:10:35,100
pun there at a particular low 
point for rhaenyra. 

2603
02:10:35,100 --> 02:10:38,900
He reports this Station quote, 
my faithful mushroom, her grace,

2604
02:10:38,900 --> 02:10:41,400
call me with it. 
All men were true as you. 

2605
02:10:41,500 --> 02:10:45,100
I should make you my hand and I 
reply that I would sooner be her

2606
02:10:45,100 --> 02:10:47,500
consort. 
She loves that. 

2607
02:10:47,500 --> 02:10:49,300
Okay, so this is one of the 
reason people think material 

2608
02:10:49,300 --> 02:10:51,900
that is something tearing would 
say I'm so why not make, you 

2609
02:10:51,907 --> 02:10:55,800
know, why not put or when I both
yeah, that's actually a book 

2610
02:10:55,800 --> 02:10:57,800
that's that I could totally see 
that. 

2611
02:10:57,800 --> 02:10:58,500
Yes. 
Change. 

2612
02:10:58,500 --> 02:11:02,100
How I agree and night like a bat
just being something that they 

2613
02:11:02,100 --> 02:11:03,700
the joke between them. 
I could see that. 

2614
02:11:03,700 --> 02:11:05,300
I mean, I can. 
Yeah he definitely see Tyrion 

2615
02:11:05,300 --> 02:11:09,700
just saying this to Dad Any? 
Yeah, as I said at the 

2616
02:11:09,700 --> 02:11:14,000
beginning, he's the one credited
with the nickname, broken bones 

2617
02:11:14,000 --> 02:11:16,600
for break bones. 
Yeah, that's fair. 

2618
02:11:16,700 --> 02:11:18,500
It sucks. 
But it's yeah, the Queen, the 

2619
02:11:18,500 --> 02:11:20,400
never was, which is a great 
nickname. 

2620
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:23,100
We use that one a lot and the 
butcher's ball which is battle 

2621
02:11:23,100 --> 02:11:26,400
that has given seen yet Shawn. 
So that's a ball, it could just 

2622
02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:31,700
be Advanced. 
Oh yeah, could be a dance, the 

2623
02:11:31,700 --> 02:11:34,600
dance of the Dragons. 
So there should be dances with 

2624
02:11:34,600 --> 02:11:38,900
in the day, you know, it's Sub 
dance is within the group dances

2625
02:11:39,100 --> 02:11:44,000
over the dragon is he nicknamed 
The Shepherd, the Dead Shepherd 

2626
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:46,600
in part because of his stench. 
She smelled like the court, a 

2627
02:11:46,600 --> 02:11:48,400
corpse. 
Yeah, Shepherd's character. 

2628
02:11:48,400 --> 02:11:49,500
We have you haven't met yet 
Shawn? 

2629
02:11:49,500 --> 02:11:51,700
He's a sort of High Sparrow 
wish. 

2630
02:11:52,100 --> 02:11:56,500
Yeah, okay but a little more 
mysterious and there's a line in

2631
02:11:56,500 --> 02:12:00,200
reference to how the commoners 
should be feared. 

2632
02:12:00,400 --> 02:12:03,300
And if you think of the riot at 
King's Landing in a Clash of 

2633
02:12:03,300 --> 02:12:07,500
Kings / season to this, Line 
that comes next. 

2634
02:12:07,500 --> 02:12:09,700
Really hits home. 
And this is mushroom saying it 

2635
02:12:10,100 --> 02:12:13,900
trunks they may be but a drunken
man knows no fear fools. 

2636
02:12:13,900 --> 02:12:17,100
I but a fool can kill a king 
rats that too. 

2637
02:12:17,300 --> 02:12:19,400
But 1000 rats can bring down a 
bear. 

2638
02:12:19,500 --> 02:12:21,900
I saw it happen once down there 
in flea bottom. 

2639
02:12:21,900 --> 02:12:24,700
I'm not sure he really saw that 
1,000 RADS bring down a bear, 

2640
02:12:24,700 --> 02:12:30,700
that part I ha ha ha ha, ha baby
was in murmansk maybe it's that.

2641
02:12:30,700 --> 02:12:33,600
I can't believe common folk of 
flea bottom cows in Mormont 

2642
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:34,900
night. 
No, no, that's a wrap. 

2643
02:12:36,300 --> 02:12:37,300
Water rats. 
Yeah. 

2644
02:12:37,500 --> 02:12:40,700
Well there's lhari strong rats. 
Maybe but he's right there. 

2645
02:12:40,700 --> 02:12:43,900
Like yes, quantity Can it can 
overcome quality if there's a 

2646
02:12:43,900 --> 02:12:46,400
know if there's enough of that 
quantity doesn't have to take a 

2647
02:12:46,400 --> 02:12:49,500
lot of quantity but yeah. 
So that's it's almost patch face

2648
02:12:49,500 --> 02:12:54,300
Ian because Tyrion King Joffrey 
was quote-unquote murdered by 

2649
02:12:54,300 --> 02:12:56,700
Tyrion whom he had made his 
full. 

2650
02:12:56,700 --> 02:13:01,700
Remember Tyrion was made 
Geoffrey's fool also dontos, but

2651
02:13:01,900 --> 02:13:03,700
that was Li was a longer thing 
there. 

2652
02:13:03,700 --> 02:13:05,800
It was just at the wedding were 
cheering was made his fool. 

2653
02:13:06,300 --> 02:13:09,100
Not to mention Joffrey, nearly 
got himself, civically killed 

2654
02:13:09,100 --> 02:13:11,800
by, starting that Riot, by 
mocking, the crowd for spoiler 

2655
02:13:11,800 --> 02:13:13,700
purposes. 
We shall avoid this full context

2656
02:13:13,700 --> 02:13:17,700
of this conversation, but it 
also does involve Prince Joffrey

2657
02:13:17,700 --> 02:13:21,900
Valerian because because Prince 
Joffrey was arguing to go take 

2658
02:13:21,900 --> 02:13:26,400
action and this Joffrey here got
killed for his actions. 

2659
02:13:26,400 --> 02:13:30,300
Yeah, conveniently not just for 
spoilery purposes but for time 

2660
02:13:30,300 --> 02:13:32,400
purposes. 
Yes Kavita. 

2661
02:13:32,400 --> 02:13:34,300
Gently. 
Yeah, I'll try working the 

2662
02:13:34,300 --> 02:13:40,400
caveats, caveats. 
I couldn't figure out as 

2663
02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:44,300
Microsoft Word thought, my name 
was kind of Microsoft. 

2664
02:13:44,300 --> 02:13:49,600
Where was got there before me? 
Hey, guys, better these days. 

2665
02:13:51,200 --> 02:13:54,000
It's claimed that mushroom said 
that Lena was quote, almost as 

2666
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:57,900
pretty as lane or that's a good 
one. 

2667
02:13:58,100 --> 02:14:02,200
Yeah, that's the one that was 
said, yeah, yeah, yeah, David. 

2668
02:14:03,800 --> 02:14:08,200
He also claims Allison said 
Plane or on Joffrey's birth do 

2669
02:14:08,200 --> 02:14:10,700
keep trying sir lane or soon or 
late. 

2670
02:14:10,700 --> 02:14:14,600
You may get one who looks like 
you exact quote on the show. 

2671
02:14:14,600 --> 02:14:17,000
Yeah that was Dallas and said 
that rest. 

2672
02:14:17,000 --> 02:14:18,600
Yeah, it's just in Fire and 
Blood. 

2673
02:14:18,600 --> 02:14:20,800
Mushroom is the source for 
Allison saying that. 

2674
02:14:20,900 --> 02:14:21,700
So yeah. 
Okay. 

2675
02:14:21,700 --> 02:14:22,900
Just I believe it. 
Yeah. 

2676
02:14:22,900 --> 02:14:24,400
That one, I believe. 
Absolutely. 

2677
02:14:24,900 --> 02:14:29,100
And here's one of the biggest of
all saving the best for last and

2678
02:14:29,100 --> 02:14:32,700
remember what we just said about
his views on aymond, he claims 

2679
02:14:32,700 --> 02:14:37,200
Amon said the following, I have 
wait, I wake up. 

2680
02:14:37,900 --> 02:14:43,400
I have never known anyone so 
strong as my sweet nephews. 

2681
02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:48,500
So let us drain our cups to 
these three strong boys. 

2682
02:14:48,500 --> 02:14:51,500
Oh yeah. 
So it's a good example of one 

2683
02:14:51,500 --> 02:14:55,300
where we all had can into that 
one for the most part. 

2684
02:14:55,300 --> 02:14:57,800
Like it's so good, it's painful 
to admit. 

2685
02:14:57,800 --> 02:15:01,700
It might not be true because 
it's like a came from mushroom. 

2686
02:15:01,700 --> 02:15:03,700
It sounds maybe a little 
embellished like because 

2687
02:15:03,700 --> 02:15:06,600
mushroom may have improved the 
wording like, was a In really 

2688
02:15:06,600 --> 02:15:09,600
that eloquent, if mushrooms 
saying it to his audience, he 

2689
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:12,200
would want to like make the 
joke, just write like a 

2690
02:15:12,200 --> 02:15:13,600
comedian. 
Like you go through a few 

2691
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:15,800
iterations until the joke is 
word of just properly. 

2692
02:15:15,800 --> 02:15:19,900
I think that might be at work 
here but I'm fine with that on 

2693
02:15:19,900 --> 02:15:22,000
the show. 
This was an insult that he had 

2694
02:15:22,000 --> 02:15:27,100
practice. 
I was thinking the same thing. 

2695
02:15:27,100 --> 02:15:30,100
I was even thinking that maybe 
mushroom or whoever gave a 

2696
02:15:30,100 --> 02:15:32,600
manette lines, like, this is 
what you do, this is what you 

2697
02:15:32,600 --> 02:15:37,900
say. 
I do like the idea though that a

2698
02:15:37,900 --> 02:15:40,900
man was like, okay, I'm going to
submit a see, my childhood 

2699
02:15:40,900 --> 02:15:45,400
bullies by nemeses again. 
What am I gonna say to these? 

2700
02:15:45,400 --> 02:15:48,900
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, 
knowing, we know, we know that 

2701
02:15:48,900 --> 02:15:52,300
12 about a man, he's probably 
got a whole like book of 

2702
02:15:52,300 --> 02:15:55,800
insults. 
Like we, like aim at people, and

2703
02:15:55,800 --> 02:15:58,000
he just pulls them out whenever 
it's ready. 

2704
02:15:58,000 --> 02:15:59,400
Yeah. 
It's the stress, not a bad 

2705
02:15:59,400 --> 02:16:02,100
strategy, feel like I wish I 
could do that. 

2706
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:07,300
I always come up with the best. 
Is after the fact. 

2707
02:16:07,700 --> 02:16:11,900
Here's my favorite though, 
because it's summarizes. 

2708
02:16:12,300 --> 02:16:15,400
Some of what George is saying 
about the type of source, 

2709
02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:17,800
mushroom is even as he's also 
pointing out. 

2710
02:16:17,800 --> 02:16:22,500
That mushroom is accurate quite 
often when it comes to the 

2711
02:16:22,500 --> 02:16:27,100
dragonseeds issue or saga, he 
claims to have tried to ride one

2712
02:16:27,100 --> 02:16:31,300
of the Dragons himself, one of 
the dwarfs, more amusing Tales, 

2713
02:16:31,300 --> 02:16:35,299
it ends with mushroom running 
across the ward of Dragonstone 

2714
02:16:35,400 --> 02:16:38,200
with the sea. 
Eat of his pantaloons on fire 

2715
02:16:38,299 --> 02:16:41,799
and knive drowning. 
When he lept into a, well, to 

2716
02:16:41,799 --> 02:16:45,799
quench the Flames, an actual 
case of Liar. 

2717
02:16:45,799 --> 02:16:49,500
Liar, pantaloons on fire. 
George doesn't use the word 

2718
02:16:49,500 --> 02:16:52,000
pantaloons that often, so it 
really stands out here. 

2719
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:54,000
It's just a funny word. 
Let's be honest. 

2720
02:16:54,100 --> 02:16:56,000
That's alone. 
That's a comic word. 

2721
02:16:56,000 --> 02:16:58,900
Like, if you go to the Krusty, 
the Clown School of funny words,

2722
02:16:59,299 --> 02:17:01,799
that's in there, you know, it's 
right up there with Seattle. 

2723
02:17:02,200 --> 02:17:06,000
Yeah, yeah. 
So I don't think we're expecting

2724
02:17:06,100 --> 02:17:09,100
Leave Mushroom on that one 
against that though. 

2725
02:17:09,100 --> 02:17:12,700
We have him saying things like 
this, quote, some singers can 

2726
02:17:12,700 --> 02:17:15,100
find Glory. 
Even in a privy, mushroom tells 

2727
02:17:15,100 --> 02:17:17,500
us but it takes a fool to speak 
the truth. 

2728
02:17:17,600 --> 02:17:22,000
That's pretty wise and like that
one's one to take the hard 

2729
02:17:22,000 --> 02:17:25,500
because yeah, like patch face 
that's when we come back to him 

2730
02:17:25,500 --> 02:17:29,200
where patch face is like spittin
visions and nonsense but some of

2731
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:32,000
its like dead accurate or going 
to come true and you better 

2732
02:17:32,000 --> 02:17:34,700
listen but even if you maybe you
can't understand it. 

2733
02:17:34,799 --> 02:17:36,400
How do you respond to that one? 
Comida. 

2734
02:17:36,400 --> 02:17:38,299
This is this, this piece of 
wisdom. 

2735
02:17:38,799 --> 02:17:42,600
I mean, one of the one of the 
tropes about fools and whether 

2736
02:17:42,600 --> 02:17:45,100
or not this is true, we can't 
really say this might be an 

2737
02:17:45,100 --> 02:17:47,799
apocryphal thing, but one of the
tropes about fools is that they 

2738
02:17:47,799 --> 02:17:52,700
did have the license to speak 
truth to power in a way that 

2739
02:17:52,700 --> 02:17:57,799
other people did not, and they 
become kind of emblematic of 

2740
02:17:57,799 --> 02:18:02,100
these types of relationships. 
This relationship between a 

2741
02:18:02,100 --> 02:18:07,400
monarch and one person in their 
Court in, Who is obviously 

2742
02:18:07,400 --> 02:18:10,799
definitionally below them in 
status, but who for whatever 

2743
02:18:10,799 --> 02:18:15,900
reason, has their confidence. 
We see like obviously Davos is 

2744
02:18:15,900 --> 02:18:18,799
not a fool, but we see Stannis 
and Davos having this kind of 

2745
02:18:18,799 --> 02:18:21,900
relationship. 
We do not see Robert having this

2746
02:18:21,900 --> 02:18:25,200
relationship with anyone other 
than maybe Med, who's not even 

2747
02:18:25,200 --> 02:18:29,799
their most of the time. 
So it's a, it's a popular Trope 

2748
02:18:29,799 --> 02:18:33,900
and it's a one that exists for a
reason, but I don't know if I 

2749
02:18:33,907 --> 02:18:35,700
can necessarily come up with 
real world. 

2750
02:18:36,000 --> 02:18:39,799
Moses other than sort of Will 
Somers, is one of those fools, 

2751
02:18:39,799 --> 02:18:43,000
the one of those historical, a 
court Jesters, who supposedly 

2752
02:18:43,000 --> 02:18:45,000
had this kind of relationship 
with Henry, the eighth. 

2753
02:18:45,400 --> 02:18:48,200
And I know on the Showtime 
series, The Tudors, they 

2754
02:18:48,200 --> 02:18:52,299
actually had Will Somers of the 
character and they had him kind 

2755
02:18:52,299 --> 02:18:56,299
of as Henry's Confidant during 
one of the later Seasons where 

2756
02:18:56,299 --> 02:18:58,299
he was trying to figure out what
to do under certain 

2757
02:18:58,299 --> 02:19:02,700
circumstances. 
Hmm, right on well said, okay, 

2758
02:19:02,700 --> 02:19:05,799
so mushroom sort of sailed off 
into the sunset while he sailed 

2759
02:19:05,799 --> 02:19:08,799
into Sunrise because he sailed 
East, basically, he sailed on 

2760
02:19:08,799 --> 02:19:11,500
in-depth towards esos. 
He began in King's Landing or at

2761
02:19:11,500 --> 02:19:15,000
least his story did since as we 
know not when, and where he was 

2762
02:19:15,000 --> 02:19:16,500
born. 
We said at the beginning that he

2763
02:19:16,500 --> 02:19:19,600
left for essos and never seem to
return that we know if it is 

2764
02:19:19,600 --> 02:19:22,100
actually possible that he 
returned to Westeros at some 

2765
02:19:22,100 --> 02:19:24,900
point, I mean he did live a long
life apparently, since we said, 

2766
02:19:24,900 --> 02:19:28,600
he at least live past, the are 
157, which is 26 years after 

2767
02:19:28,600 --> 02:19:31,900
dance, because he did outlive 
egg on the third next year. 

2768
02:19:32,100 --> 02:19:35,600
Hang on the third died. 
It's a bad job to have, 

2769
02:19:35,700 --> 02:19:37,500
literally They said that's the 
king who doesn't laughs? 

2770
02:19:37,500 --> 02:19:40,400
Yeah, like what, yeah, you 
definitely need to move on from 

2771
02:19:40,400 --> 02:19:42,900
that one. 
So it was, it wasn't the blood 

2772
02:19:42,900 --> 02:19:45,900
and murder and front-row seat to
the worst Humanity has to offer.

2773
02:19:45,900 --> 02:19:48,800
It was the lack of an audience, 
got some to move on. 

2774
02:19:49,400 --> 02:19:52,400
He's like, I can ice, I can 
handle all the murder and death 

2775
02:19:52,400 --> 02:19:56,300
and cruelty, but people not 
laughing at my jokes, can't have

2776
02:19:56,300 --> 02:19:57,900
that. 
So he moved North to White 

2777
02:19:57,900 --> 02:20:01,100
Harbor with Lord manderley, when
manderley left, the Regency to 

2778
02:20:01,100 --> 02:20:04,000
return home or manually. 
Apparently it's all about 

2779
02:20:04,000 --> 02:20:07,100
laughing. 
He stayed at I prefer a while 

2780
02:20:07,300 --> 02:20:10,200
probably good place to be the 
annals of white Harbor. 

2781
02:20:10,900 --> 02:20:14,500
If we knew them could maybe 
provide evidence of mushrooms 

2782
02:20:14,500 --> 02:20:17,400
existence, but we don't have 
access to that, you know, 

2783
02:20:17,400 --> 02:20:19,700
there's always a chance he gets 
mentioned later. 

2784
02:20:19,700 --> 02:20:21,900
He could be mentioned in Fire 
and Blood too because of the 

2785
02:20:21,900 --> 02:20:25,600
bail or stuff and the burnings. 
There's another possibility is 

2786
02:20:25,600 --> 02:20:28,400
you know, maybe in Song of Ice 
and Fire gets mentioned again, 

2787
02:20:28,400 --> 02:20:30,500
maybe Tyrion has caused him to 
cite him. 

2788
02:20:30,900 --> 02:20:33,000
This is the last written of him 
in Fire and Blood. 

2789
02:20:33,000 --> 02:20:37,400
However the later volumes of his
Any filled with colorful 

2790
02:20:37,400 --> 02:20:40,900
accounts of his life in white 
Harbor, his sojourn at the court

2791
02:20:40,900 --> 02:20:44,400
of the sealord of braavos. 
His voyage to the port of Eben 

2792
02:20:44,600 --> 02:20:47,700
and his years, amongst the, 
mummer's of the lisping lady, 

2793
02:20:47,900 --> 02:20:50,600
are valuable in their own right 
though. 

2794
02:20:50,700 --> 02:20:55,900
Less useful to our purpose here.
So sadly, the little man with 

2795
02:20:55,900 --> 02:20:58,600
the foul. 
Tongue must passed from our 

2796
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:02,200
story though, never the most 
reliable of chroniclers the 

2797
02:21:02,200 --> 02:21:05,500
dwarf, spoke truths, no one else
dared speak. 

2798
02:21:06,100 --> 02:21:11,500
Often droll besides yes, he was.
He was often draw besides. 

2799
02:21:11,800 --> 02:21:14,400
So yeah, I don't think it's a 
vain hope that we get more on 

2800
02:21:14,400 --> 02:21:17,900
mushroom, maybe not like details
about him about his life. 

2801
02:21:17,900 --> 02:21:19,700
Although we might be to 
extrapolate stuff based on what 

2802
02:21:19,700 --> 02:21:21,200
we do, get, what do you think of
eating? 

2803
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:23,000
What's your, what are your hopes
here? 

2804
02:21:23,500 --> 02:21:27,900
So in addition to asking George 
if he thinks mushroom is a 

2805
02:21:28,400 --> 02:21:30,400
testimony of mushroom was 
actually written by a real 

2806
02:21:30,400 --> 02:21:34,300
person named mushroom. 
I would like to ask him which 

2807
02:21:34,300 --> 02:21:37,500
were the books that they are. 
Forgive us. 

2808
02:21:38,300 --> 02:21:42,600
Yeah, we may get closer to where
they dragon books where they 

2809
02:21:42,600 --> 02:21:44,800
robbed? 
She books were they like books 

2810
02:21:44,800 --> 02:21:47,400
about other religions like I 
want to know what were the 

2811
02:21:47,400 --> 02:21:48,400
books. 
He wanted burn. 

2812
02:21:48,900 --> 02:21:52,300
Hmm. 
But it's honestly the variety of

2813
02:21:52,300 --> 02:21:55,400
stories that makes me more like 
on the fact that there's so many

2814
02:21:55,400 --> 02:21:58,200
of these different stories and 
you look at that last section, 

2815
02:21:58,200 --> 02:22:03,500
even there's like four different
lifetime's worth of experiences 

2816
02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:05,800
that yes, they could all have 
happened to one. 

2817
02:22:06,000 --> 02:22:08,500
Person. 
But it seems to me that this is 

2818
02:22:08,500 --> 02:22:12,500
a collective story that mushroom
is a convenient pseudonym for 

2819
02:22:12,700 --> 02:22:15,500
multiple people. 
And if you look at sort of for 

2820
02:22:15,500 --> 02:22:18,400
instance T the city Chronicles 
of the 15th and 16th centuries, 

2821
02:22:18,600 --> 02:22:21,500
they're usually amended by 
multiple people like it starts 

2822
02:22:21,500 --> 02:22:24,200
off with one person, writing it 
and then someone else picks up 

2823
02:22:24,200 --> 02:22:26,400
and something like the dread 
pirate Roberts theory of 

2824
02:22:26,400 --> 02:22:28,200
mushroom. 
Except that, in this case, it's 

2825
02:22:28,200 --> 02:22:30,800
even more of a collective. 
Like you've got lots of people 

2826
02:22:30,800 --> 02:22:34,300
contributing stories and then in
the end, you end up with this 

2827
02:22:34,300 --> 02:22:38,000
text, that contradict it Itself.
That doesn't necessarily hold 

2828
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:41,300
together. 
That doesn't make sense, but it 

2829
02:22:41,300 --> 02:22:45,300
does offer kind of a bird's eye 
view of what lots of different 

2830
02:22:45,300 --> 02:22:48,000
people thought so potentially 
right on. 

2831
02:22:48,000 --> 02:22:51,700
Okay, yeah, I really love the 
way, the name suggests that we 

2832
02:22:51,700 --> 02:22:54,100
have so many, the name is when 
we brought up the beginning, 

2833
02:22:54,100 --> 02:22:57,700
kind of the circle back to share
brought up the euphemism for 

2834
02:22:57,700 --> 02:23:00,700
mushroom, which is fitting 
because he's such a sexual 

2835
02:23:00,700 --> 02:23:03,600
character. 
And then we brought up fancies 

2836
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:07,500
Sprout, like mushrooms, after a 
hard, Which is a variety of 

2837
02:23:07,500 --> 02:23:10,100
rumors about a particular event,
which is what you're 

2838
02:23:10,300 --> 02:23:13,600
characterizing mushroom, as, as 
a being, which is so fitting. 

2839
02:23:13,600 --> 02:23:17,900
So George really created a 
character that suggests and 

2840
02:23:17,900 --> 02:23:20,700
supports a number of theories of
number of takes a number of, 

2841
02:23:20,700 --> 02:23:23,700
it's just really well made and 
that's awesome because it 

2842
02:23:23,700 --> 02:23:26,200
doesn't seem like a particularly
important character. 

2843
02:23:26,200 --> 02:23:28,300
She's like, just a way to 
support the fun of the story, 

2844
02:23:28,300 --> 02:23:31,700
but when you dig into it, it's 
like this is really well thought

2845
02:23:31,700 --> 02:23:35,300
out and it just fits and works 
really well as a point of 

2846
02:23:35,300 --> 02:23:38,800
discussion as As a springboard 
for the interesting topics we 

2847
02:23:38,800 --> 02:23:41,700
had today and others that are 
surely possible that we didn't 

2848
02:23:41,700 --> 02:23:43,400
have time for didn't conceive 
of. 

2849
02:23:44,200 --> 02:23:46,600
Yeah, once again, George, you 
know, just thinking about the 

2850
02:23:46,600 --> 02:23:49,800
idea to have mushrooms are, 
sometimes nutritious and tasty 

2851
02:23:49,800 --> 02:23:52,300
too, sometimes poisonous and 
maybe the stories and mushrooms 

2852
02:23:52,300 --> 02:23:55,600
are similar, sometimes her 
adding value and flushing things

2853
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:58,600
out but sometimes they're making
a suspect, the truth of it or 

2854
02:23:59,100 --> 02:24:01,600
taking someone's reputation or 
whatever is your point. 

2855
02:24:01,600 --> 02:24:04,800
Good point, couple of comments 
from folks as we make our way 

2856
02:24:04,800 --> 02:24:07,300
out here, more Lisa Just a show 
of love and support for 

2857
02:24:07,300 --> 02:24:08,900
everything here. 
She Westeros love you guys, and 

2858
02:24:08,900 --> 02:24:12,300
the kitties. 
Yeah, for Shawn to grab a cat 

2859
02:24:12,300 --> 02:24:13,600
while, really shuttle? 
So long. 

2860
02:24:13,600 --> 02:24:15,900
Look at Xerxes during that 
period, we got a dog. 

2861
02:24:15,900 --> 02:24:18,700
We got a cat with could have 
another Brendan price. 

2862
02:24:18,700 --> 02:24:20,600
Says not really a deep question 
because wondering if dr. 

2863
02:24:20,600 --> 02:24:23,200
Kavita, thanks, Gil, Dane is a 
nod to Guild ass at all. 

2864
02:24:23,700 --> 02:24:27,100
I could see that. 
Yeah, Gil daus is so just for a 

2865
02:24:27,100 --> 02:24:32,400
context Guild us was A fifth or 
sixth Century historian writing 

2866
02:24:32,400 --> 02:24:36,500
in Latin in what is now the 
United Kingdom we don't I'm not 

2867
02:24:36,500 --> 02:24:39,900
sure exactly where he was 
located but he is actually 

2868
02:24:39,900 --> 02:24:43,800
another of the early supposed 
sources for King Arthur. 

2869
02:24:43,800 --> 02:24:46,700
He only mentions him in passing 
he mentions him as this Roman 

2870
02:24:46,700 --> 02:24:49,900
warlord who happen to be active 
against the Saxons. 

2871
02:24:50,000 --> 02:24:53,200
But that's what makes them 
relevant because he is one of 

2872
02:24:53,200 --> 02:24:56,800
our earliest sources for the 
existence of that guy named 

2873
02:24:56,800 --> 02:24:59,000
Arthur who might have eventually
become known as King Arthur. 

2874
02:24:59,200 --> 02:25:00,800
Okay. 
Very good, very good. 

2875
02:25:01,200 --> 02:25:06,900
Oh, we got it. 
Oh, there she is. 40 or so 

2876
02:25:06,900 --> 02:25:09,500
pretty. 
Yeah, pretty dirty girl. 

2877
02:25:09,600 --> 02:25:11,600
Ah, look at her looking right at
what a star. 

2878
02:25:11,700 --> 02:25:13,200
Oh yeah. 
She's like I'm a fancy. 

2879
02:25:13,200 --> 02:25:17,800
Yeah, good girl. 
Are there as my other dog has 

2880
02:25:17,800 --> 02:25:21,000
slept through this in a good 
dog. 

2881
02:25:22,100 --> 02:25:26,700
Oh our trivia question. 
The question was, who had this 

2882
02:25:26,700 --> 02:25:28,700
line? 
They cooked it with mushrooms 

2883
02:25:28,700 --> 02:25:33,300
and apples and it tasted like 
Triumph the quote, he is Cersei.

2884
02:25:33,600 --> 02:25:36,700
And what being what's being 
referred to as the The boar that

2885
02:25:36,700 --> 02:25:44,000
killed Robert Baratheon, that 
sounds like a Circe and 

2886
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:47,200
Christina K got their first very
quick immediately. 

2887
02:25:47,200 --> 02:25:50,300
I see very good directly to but 
hers is much faster. 

2888
02:25:50,300 --> 02:25:52,200
Cool right on. 
I'm glad a few people got that 

2889
02:25:52,200 --> 02:25:53,700
one. 
Not too surprised. 

2890
02:25:53,700 --> 02:25:54,200
Christina. 
K. 

2891
02:25:54,200 --> 02:25:57,100
God first, she's a lot of times 
on top of these things, very 

2892
02:25:57,100 --> 02:25:59,000
good. 
A few other episodes, we 

2893
02:25:59,000 --> 02:26:01,200
mentioned don't forget. 
Next week is Battle of the 

2894
02:26:01,200 --> 02:26:03,400
Trident weed. 
I didn't technically mention our

2895
02:26:03,400 --> 02:26:06,000
Dance of the Dragons covered 
with radio Westeros but it A 

2896
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:10,000
certainly coverage of a lot of 
these events, ceptin Barth 

2897
02:26:10,000 --> 02:26:12,500
episode. 
That's a big one different. 

2898
02:26:12,500 --> 02:26:17,000
Look at an important Source 
episode. 6 of our preview of 

2899
02:26:17,000 --> 02:26:18,300
House of the Dragon was 
convened. 

2900
02:26:18,300 --> 02:26:20,500
His first appearance on history 
of Westeros? 

2901
02:26:20,500 --> 02:26:21,900
If you want to check that out, 
there were some great 

2902
02:26:21,900 --> 02:26:25,400
discussions and competed. 
Remind everybody again where to 

2903
02:26:25,400 --> 02:26:28,100
find you both on the internet 
but also other episodes you've 

2904
02:26:28,100 --> 02:26:30,800
appeared on okay? 
Yes, as you mentioned, I was on 

2905
02:26:30,800 --> 02:26:33,700
the episode 6 preview of House 
of the Dragon here. 

2906
02:26:33,700 --> 02:26:36,700
I have. 
Also I was also on The House of 

2907
02:26:36,700 --> 02:26:39,900
the Dragon recap episode, the 
end of season recap on learned 

2908
02:26:39,900 --> 02:26:42,300
at hams. 
And there have been a couple of 

2909
02:26:42,300 --> 02:26:45,500
others. 
I also actually am part of a 

2910
02:26:45,500 --> 02:26:48,900
podcast that that goes through, 
our flag means death, we've been

2911
02:26:48,900 --> 02:26:52,100
on a bit of a Hiatus for 
personal reasons, but we are 

2912
02:26:52,100 --> 02:26:54,700
hoping to get another episode 
out soon, especially because 

2913
02:26:54,700 --> 02:26:56,800
there's so much news about our 
flag meets death. 

2914
02:26:56,800 --> 02:27:00,300
Yeah, so that's why I'm 
supporting these into exactly. 

2915
02:27:00,300 --> 02:27:04,100
We got time that and I can be 
found, I've written a bunch of 

2916
02:27:04,100 --> 02:27:05,700
essays about House of the 
Dragon. 

2917
02:27:05,900 --> 02:27:09,100
Tation Fire and Blood. 
If you want to hear any more 

2918
02:27:09,100 --> 02:27:12,000
details about my various 
mushrooms berries, that is 

2919
02:27:12,000 --> 02:27:15,700
usually where you can find them 
on my blog which is KVM thin dot

2920
02:27:15,700 --> 02:27:19,500
wordpress.com. 
And I can also be found on 

2921
02:27:19,500 --> 02:27:22,000
Tumblr. 
As poor Shadows painted Queens 

2922
02:27:22,000 --> 02:27:26,200
where I will occasionally answer
weird questions about A Song of 

2923
02:27:26,200 --> 02:27:28,800
Ice and Fire. 
Nice. 

2924
02:27:29,100 --> 02:27:31,000
Excellent. 
Well, you are amazing. 

2925
02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:34,000
Thank you very much for coming. 
We really appreciate your time 

2926
02:27:34,000 --> 02:27:36,100
and your great thoughts. 
I learned a lot Lot. 

2927
02:27:36,100 --> 02:27:40,300
I expect the listeners did as 
well and Sean and Shea a to I 

2928
02:27:40,600 --> 02:27:42,100
can't speak for them, but I'm 
going to go ahead and do it. 

2929
02:27:42,100 --> 02:27:43,600
Anyway. 
I was glad that we could have 

2930
02:27:43,600 --> 02:27:45,800
you on when Sean was on because 
obviously before it was a 

2931
02:27:45,800 --> 02:27:48,300
spoilery topic. 
So he had gotten to meet you 

2932
02:27:48,308 --> 02:27:50,000
before. 
So I was glad to get that. 

2933
02:27:50,300 --> 02:27:53,500
Oh yeah. 
Now and also my shirt that I'm 

2934
02:27:53,500 --> 02:27:55,300
wearing is a Shakespeare shirt. 
Oh yeah. 

2935
02:27:55,300 --> 02:28:05,600
All the female character first 
tetralogy of the history of 

2936
02:28:05,900 --> 02:28:09,300
Shirts and with the pink egg 
because Sean's last name is pink

2937
02:28:09,600 --> 02:28:13,100
so he gives her pink, I'm 
wearing, the gang goes to ice 

2938
02:28:13,100 --> 02:28:15,200
and fire upon, which is 
relevant, because the Sean 

2939
02:28:15,200 --> 02:28:17,800
brought up, I should work on 
today, but I was just thinking 

2940
02:28:17,800 --> 02:28:20,600
about the pain and felt like 
wearing the shirt. 

2941
02:28:20,600 --> 02:28:23,900
And I have the king long live. 
The king viserys Targaryen 

2942
02:28:23,900 --> 02:28:25,800
shirt. 
Yeah, TV version house the 

2943
02:28:25,808 --> 02:28:27,900
dragon version. 
Yeah I actually got these isn't 

2944
02:28:27,900 --> 02:28:30,600
wearing it right now but I got 
like that that the crown that is

2945
02:28:30,600 --> 02:28:33,500
on that list of a saracen 
cherries and wear your crown. 

2946
02:28:33,500 --> 02:28:35,700
This guy got as he's a ring 
version. 

2947
02:28:35,800 --> 02:28:37,700
Of it like a small ring for his 
hand. 

2948
02:28:37,700 --> 02:28:39,500
It's really cool. 
It's a really nice ring. 

2949
02:28:39,500 --> 02:28:41,400
I don't wear Rings while 
recording because it's too easy 

2950
02:28:41,400 --> 02:28:41,800
to. 
Yeah. 

2951
02:28:41,800 --> 02:28:43,000
Just tap on. 
Yeah. 

2952
02:28:44,500 --> 02:28:46,700
Sounds clicks and banging 
sounds. 

2953
02:28:46,700 --> 02:28:48,700
Yeah, nope. 
Rings are no. 

2954
02:28:48,700 --> 02:28:50,600
Go for recording. 
Studios. 

2955
02:28:50,900 --> 02:28:52,400
Least for me. 
Anyway, folks. 

2956
02:28:52,400 --> 02:28:55,500
Thank you to our patrons and 
Spotify subscribers. 

2957
02:28:55,500 --> 02:28:59,000
Those are both the most direct 
ways to support the show with 

2958
02:28:59,000 --> 02:29:01,600
the monthly recurring, 
subscription of a level of 

2959
02:29:01,600 --> 02:29:03,000
financial contribution that you 
choose. 

2960
02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:06,500
You can also make a one-time 
donation during a live More at 

2961
02:29:06,500 --> 02:29:09,000
history of Westeros.com using 
the big donate button. 

2962
02:29:09,500 --> 02:29:12,800
Thanks as well to Nina for her. 
Great takes worked out a lot of 

2963
02:29:12,800 --> 02:29:14,900
good details there. 
She had a lot of good insight as

2964
02:29:14,900 --> 02:29:18,400
well and we're looking forward 
to having her on the show in two

2965
02:29:18,400 --> 02:29:22,300
weeks so that's great. 
And thanks as well to Joey Jesse

2966
02:29:22,300 --> 02:29:25,900
and bran and Michael. 
Clarke, felled for our Music. 

2967
02:29:25,900 --> 02:29:29,000
Our videos Maps, guys are 
amazing, Michael. 

2968
02:29:29,000 --> 02:29:31,300
Farr photos back in the map 
game. 

2969
02:29:31,300 --> 02:29:34,200
Again, he takes he comes in and 
out of it, you know, and this 

2970
02:29:34,200 --> 02:29:37,200
Creative Energy company Are 
bland suddenly he has 

2971
02:29:37,200 --> 02:29:39,400
westerland's and the North and 
progress. 

2972
02:29:39,400 --> 02:29:42,100
But all of a sudden he was like,
I'm switching to this and that's

2973
02:29:42,100 --> 02:29:44,800
how the creative process works. 
So of it up that is needed. 

2974
02:29:44,800 --> 02:29:48,400
You can never predict where 
energy plans so what would you 

2975
02:29:48,700 --> 02:29:51,200
which also means that we might 
switch out? 

2976
02:29:51,200 --> 02:29:53,800
The maps eventually here. 
Yeah, I haven't switched out 

2977
02:29:53,800 --> 02:29:55,800
about a while because I do like 
the known world one. 

2978
02:29:55,800 --> 02:29:58,600
Don't want to but I should put 
it out for the stormlands and 

2979
02:29:58,600 --> 02:30:00,400
whatnot. 
Eventually absolutely. 

2980
02:30:01,300 --> 02:30:03,800
Speaking of which I've got 
Michelle yeoh and across the 

2981
02:30:03,800 --> 02:30:05,700
Tiger Hidden Dragon poster 
behind me who's up. 

2982
02:30:05,900 --> 02:30:08,700
For best actress the Oscars. 
I'm excited to watch right after

2983
02:30:08,700 --> 02:30:11,700
our podcast here and such a good
movie. 

2984
02:30:11,700 --> 02:30:14,700
I loved everything. 
I'm yeah, so good. 

2985
02:30:14,900 --> 02:30:17,100
I agree. 
I'm waiting to see who wins, but

2986
02:30:17,100 --> 02:30:19,700
I'm going to put a little woman 
at reviews of all the best 

2987
02:30:19,700 --> 02:30:22,600
picture nominees and at the last
one I saw was women talking 

2988
02:30:22,600 --> 02:30:27,500
which man at blew me away. 
I highly recommend definitely 

2989
02:30:27,500 --> 02:30:29,400
subscribe. 
You watching one minute Clips. 

2990
02:30:29,400 --> 02:30:31,900
We definitely subscribe to 
dancing Sean on YouTube if you 

2991
02:30:31,900 --> 02:30:36,200
want to catch his reviews on the
best picture nominees and On his

2992
02:30:36,200 --> 02:30:39,500
other top. 
So good to have a subscription 

2993
02:30:39,500 --> 02:30:41,400
locked in already. 
So whenever things come out, 

2994
02:30:41,400 --> 02:30:45,200
you're ready for. 
All right, folks, that is it for

2995
02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:47,500
this episode of history of 
Westeros podcast. 

2996
02:30:47,500 --> 02:30:50,400
We will see you next time, you 
know what to do in the meantime.

2997
02:30:51,200 --> 02:30:39,500
LR reread us On his other top. 
So good to have a subscription 

2998
02:30:39,500 --> 02:30:41,400
locked in already. 
So whenever things come out, 

2999
02:30:41,400 --> 02:30:45,200
you're ready for. 
All right, folks, that is it for

3000
02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:47,500
this episode of history of 
Westeros podcast. 

3001
02:30:47,500 --> 02:30:50,400
We will see you next time, you 
know what to do in the meantime.

3002
02:30:51,200 --> 02:30:52,500
LR reread us