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Hello and welcome back everybody
to the beginning of our Season 2

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coverage for House of the 
Dragon. 

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Starting with this very special 
episode, our schedule is as 

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follows. 
Every Monday we do non spoilery 

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reviews. 
At. 6 Eastern and on Saturday we

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do preview episodes which are 
full of spoilers at 3:00 

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Eastern. 
We'll have some content on 

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Wednesdays around 7 Eastern, 
some live streams, some pre 

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prepared scripted content, TBD. 
Or just go to our YouTube 

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channel and click on the live 
tab. 

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As you can see here, a lot of 
you send in great questions for 

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Ryan Condall and we came up with
some of our own. 

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Let's get to it. 
We interviewed Ryan Condall 2 

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episodes into season one almost 
two years ago now. 

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Here we are just before season 
2. 

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We'd like to revisit some 
questions from last time to 

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start off and share some 
effusive comments as well, then 

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get into some heavier questions.
We had listeners calling you 

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things like the showrunner that 
was promised and, and marvelling

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about you, you know, your 
passion and knowledge and, and 

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just being a fan like the rest 
of us. 

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And we completely agree. 
We've we've seen lots of 

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evidence of that. 
And there's this photo that I 

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think encapsulates this vibe 
really well. 

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And in the Entertainment Weekly 
spread that has you on set, like

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in the midst of everything, you 
have your headphones on and 

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there's a whole bunch of things 
happening around you. 

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And it's kind of iconic, I 
think, because it's like you're 

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in the middle of it, which is 
appropriate because you're the 

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showrunner, but you have your 
headphones on, you're very 

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focused. 
You're thinking about what you 

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need to think about, but you're 
smiling, which to me is like, 

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that's what really makes it all 
puts it all together because 

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you're really in your element. 
You're doing what you wanted to 

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do and that it's just, I think 
it's perfect. 

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So I wanted to start with that 
and get your reaction to how 

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things are going so far. 
Great, thank you. 

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Thank you guys for having me on.
I love the service that you do 

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for greater fandom and and you 
have fans within our show that 

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say that this is, you know, one 
of the very top, you know, I 

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think pieces of fan content, 
shall we call it. 

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I hate that word, but I think 
it's fair in this created for 

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around the universe. 
So, so well done to you guys and

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appreciate all of the, you know,
the, the support that you give 

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the show because I think that 
was very important, particularly

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in season one when we were 
trying to, you know, make carve 

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out our way in, in the, the 
greater lexicon and, and lore 

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of, of Westeros. 
So we so we really appreciate 

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that. 
Yeah. 

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I mean, things are we're at a 
fever pitch right now. 

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Sort of everything is going on 
at once. 

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Press and promotion have begun 
for season 2. 

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We are still in in the post 
process and will be for some 

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weeks to come. 
We are. 

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In fact, I came up to this from 
mixing episode 4, doing the 

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sound mix on episode 4. 
So I'm not doing the mix, but 

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I'm listening to the mix and 
giving notes to our lovely sound

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team. 
So, yeah, we're right, you know,

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we're right in it. 
And episodes are being delivered

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kind of, you know, Fast and 
Furious now so that they can be 

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subtitled and dubbed and all 
those fun things that that 

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happen as they go around to the 
international territories. 

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And, you know, press really 
kicks off kind of today, 

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tomorrow for me for the next 
like two weeks straight of 

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answering lots of questions and 
talking about the show. 

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And yeah, it'll be, it'll be, 
you know, like I said, fast and 

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furious and fun. 
We have like there's like three 

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different premiere events that 
I'm that I'm going to and, and 

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yeah, in like 3 different cities
in three different time zones. 

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So it's, yeah, it's pretty, 
pretty, pretty nuts. 

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And then and then, you know, 
shortly thereafter, season 2 

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will be done, dust and 
delivered. 

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And then we're kind of off, you 
know, off in the early days of 

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of Season 3 as the the dragon 
has three heads all at once. 

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It's always nice trying to eat 
me. 

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All three heads always trying to
eat you that's a lot that 

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actually brings me to a question
we had scheduled for a little 

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later, but it's just kind of 
sticking on topic here thing 

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hearing you talk about listening
to the the sound mix and giving 

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notes on that. 
It's always a a curiosity to a 

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lot of us what things you 
personally take a hand in and 

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what things you have to delegate
because there's so much to do as

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a showrunner. 
So like what level of 

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involvement do you have say in 
the trailers like what they can 

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reveal and what they can't? 
Because that's obviously a 

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pretty big deal, what they are, 
what they're going to. 

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You all know that we scrutinize 
every second of those trailers. 

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So you must want to be careful 
about what gets included and 

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what doesn't. 
And we're curious where that how

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that decisions gets made. 
Yeah, I'm very careful about all

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that stuff. 
And they, and look, HBO is 

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great. 
They're wonderful partners and 

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they, they do very much care 
about what the showrunner 

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thinks. 
So they do share everything. 

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As with anything, television is 
a collaborative medium. 

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You're constantly collaborating 
with, with the artists around 

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you and also the, the needs of 
the, of the corporation and the 

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needs of the marketing team to 
promote your show so that people

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will come and be excited to 
watch it. 

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And marketing marketing is a one
of those particular kind of push

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pulls where they, you know, they
always want to, as is their job,

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they want to dazzle the audience
with as much memorable water 

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cooler imagery as they, as they 
can and, and sound bites and 

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things like that. 
And I'm in a place where I have 

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to sort of play the game of 
like, which shell are we willing

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to turn over? 
You know, for me, it's really 

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just I want to preserve the 
experience for the audience 

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who's watching the show for the 
first time so that the surprises

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happen in in the well crafted 
dramatic reveals that we've 

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worked for two years now to 
create versus in a trailer or in

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a, you know, in an interview or 
something like that. 

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So, so they do show me 
everything. 

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The trailers are made, aren't 
made by our post team 'cause 

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they're very busy making 
episodes. 

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So this tend to be made by a 
marketing, you know, an 

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advertising agency, a marketing 
agency that HBO partners with 

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and then they send over, you 
know, here's here's here's the 

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thing that we're happy with. 
And then is there anything in 

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here that concerns you? 
And then we talk and there's 

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sort of a back and forth. 
Sometimes I actually rewrite the

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dialogue a little bit in the 
sense that like, you know, as we

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know from trailers, sometimes we
put together, there are 

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sentences or conversations that 
are put together for the sake of

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the trailer that aren't that 
really that way this place the 

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show. 
So sometimes I'm not really 

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rewriting, but it's sort of like
editing so that, well, I don't, 

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you know, I'll say, sometimes I 
don't think the show really 

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delivers on that point, but I 
think this is a fair one to do. 

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You know, I make suggestions and
things and things like that. 

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And sometimes I'll suggest a 
different a different shot. 

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And then there's also, frankly, 
there's visual effects concerns 

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that come into it too, with what
our team can deliver in time 

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because the trailers happened so
much earlier than the show does.

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And as you know, visual effects,
particularly with Dragons, run 

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right up to the end in in terms 
of iterations and and passes to 

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some things aren't possible to 
deliver in the trailer, which is

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why in early trailers you don't 
see a lot of Dragons because the

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Dragons don't exist. 
Yet and then. 

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In the last final trailer there 
a bunch of those dragon shots 

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were actually already done. 
So, so those were things that we

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could we could share. 
So that that's kind of the 

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process on that. 
They do involve me with 

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everything. 
Cool, that's good to know. 

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You know, we noticed that in the
trailers ourselves. 

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We love, we love when we noticed
that that happened, for example,

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like with Brooks Rest or 
something like that. 

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Really, they're not being sneaky
here. 

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They just didn't have that done.
Yeah, didn't have didn't have 

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the castle yet on. 
The subject of sets and whatnot,

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now that we're a couple seasons 
in and you've been on a lot of 

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sets, which one was your 
favorite? 

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Which one like got you like, oh,
this, this is it. 

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This is what it's all about. 
I mean, I'm, it's such a 

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privilege and delight to be 
working with the great Jim Clay,

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who is just a master designer 
and really everything he builds 

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down to little, you know, little
funeral altars that that he 

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builds out on our locations are 
just incredible and they're 

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always real and in world. 
But for me, I think the, the one

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set that stands out the most 
this season is probably 

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Harrenhal. 
And people probably know from 

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reading the book that Harrenhal 
plays a big role in, in this 

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part of the story. 
But what, what our team built 

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for that I'm very excited for 
people to see 'cause I think 

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it's a, a wholly, wholly unique 
set and, and castle and, and 

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world. 
And I'm, I'm, it is such a 

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presence in the lore of, of this
universe that I'm, I'm excited 

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for, for our, our version of it,
our take on it. 

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Yeah, we'll get to maybe see 
some parts that we haven't of 

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it. 
That's that's really exciting, 

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you know? 
Yes. 

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That's real big. 
Yeah, there's room for places we

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haven't seen there, that's for 
sure. 

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It's so huge. 
Yeah, it's so, it's so it's the 

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biggest castle in Westeros. 
And and you know, the set, the 

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set that we built is huge, but 
obviously the set is not the 

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entire castle. 
But I think with the clever sort

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of use of location work, we have
exterior back lots and then we 

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have a bunch of interiors that 
we built for. 

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You really do get a sense of the
massive scale of the place in a 

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way that I don't think we have. 
Before. 

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Oh, that's cool. 
On TV. 

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Well, Speaking of, yeah, you you
guys took the chance to make 

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some elements of the show more 
book accurate this time, like 

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the Iron Throne, and that's it 
was done in a way that's 

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explainable. 
Like, yeah, that could have just

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reduced that later. 
Were there any discussions of 

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changing other things like 
making Valyrian steel swords a 

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little darker or Targaryen eyes 
purple or anything like that? 

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Or was that just like, Nah, it's
it's too late or, or something 

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like that? 
Yeah. 

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Well, the Valyrian steel I think
we got right. 

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I'm actually pretty proud of 
where we got to with that, where

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it's readable on screen, 
particularly in the, in the 

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close-ups. 
And if you, I mean, anybody who 

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cares, there is the scene 
close-ups of the, of the props 

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and they're beautiful and 
they're actually made in the, 

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they're, they're made. 
It's folded steel. 

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It's, it's, it's, it's Poly 
steel. 

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So there's more than one kind of
steel sort of fused together. 

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And that's what creates that the
swirl, the sort of wood grain 

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pattern that's in, in the steel.
And that's what George was 

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referring to Damascus steel, 
they would call it, which is 

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sort of a sort of a bit of a 
misnomer cause Damascus is a 

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place and not a thing. 
But it's Damascus seal is a fine

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word for it. 
It's pattern welded steel is 

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usually what what is creates 
that effect, the wood grain 

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effect, the swirls and the dark 
smoke and all the things that 

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George describes in the book. 
But I think we've done a really 

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good job of making that present 
and readable on the weapons. 

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But you do have to get kind of 
close to them really see it. 

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But I think it makes the blades 
generally darker and things like

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that. 
So we so we did do that and that

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and that was present on these 
props in the original series. 

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It's just as, you know, we had 
more resources at hand when we 

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were making these things, 
particularly in season one when 

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ice and long claw and the cats 
paw dagger and all those things 

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were were, you know, were made 
that we just, you know, the 

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technology is better. 
We're you know, we're we're in a

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better place with that. 
As far as the purple eyes. 

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I mean, it's something we 
debated. 

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I think David and Dan made the 
right call in the original show 

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in in not doing it because it is
it is a visual effects 

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boondoggle, especially over 8 
episodes and with as many 

224
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,480
Targaryens as we have. 
And I just think it's it's an 

225
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,120
element that I do love from the 
book. 

226
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,640
But when you actually see it, it
does become a bit fantasy. 

227
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,800
And because the Targaryens 
already stand out so much 

228
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,840
because of their silver hair and
their Dragons and Titan world 

229
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,120
that they live in, it feels like
it it it others them in a way 

230
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,640
that makes them feel not like 
everybody else in in the room. 

231
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,040
And sometimes it's helpful and 
other times it's you wanna have 

232
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,240
a human, a real, meaningful 
human connection. 

233
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,760
And all of these people's eyes 
are so beautiful the way that 

234
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,720
they are that I like leaving 
them untouched. 

235
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,080
Well said. 
What have been some of the 

236
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,560
highlight moments from your 
Props podcast? 

237
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:21,200
The stuff Dreams are made of so 
far? 

238
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,240
Do you have any upcoming 
episodes you want to tease? 

239
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,600
I've been listening. 
I've most recently listened to 

240
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,360
the How to Ride Your Dragon 
episode. 

241
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,280
That was very informative. 
A lot of us are so curious about

242
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,080
how the stuff is made because, I
mean, they've been Dragon movies

243
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,880
before, but you guys are really 
taking it to another level. 

244
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,680
I mean, this is just way more 
than than what has existed in 

245
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:41,440
pretty much any production I've 
ever seen. 

246
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,840
Yeah, I mean upped the game 
again this year. 

247
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,560
As you will see, the technology 
is all taking steps up and 

248
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,520
improved 'cause as you, as you 
go and make these things, you 

249
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,680
sort of iterate the, the, the, 
the toys and the tools that you 

250
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:52,920
make. 
So that the, the rig got a 

251
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,920
little better, the saddles got a
little better. 

252
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,640
I think the camera, the, the 
camera arm that we're using, 

253
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,480
it's all very technical. 
But all that stuff kind of 

254
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,960
improved this year. 
That was a Mike Dawson episode. 

255
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,960
Mike was our special effects 
supervisor, department head. 

256
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,080
So he works in all, he, he 
creates all of the fire and the 

257
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,760
rain and also, you know, 
anything that involves a multi 

258
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,280
articulated dragon riding rig. 
His department's responsible for

259
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,960
building all that stuff. 
So yeah, I mean, we're actually,

260
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,520
our season finale airs today, 
which is we're recording this 

261
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,960
May 22nd. 
So check, check that out. 

262
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,920
And we'll, we'll be off for 
probably, you know, a couple 

263
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,360
weeks and then we'll come back 
in the in the summer as new 

264
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,400
auctions come around and things 
to talk about. 

265
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:39,840
But it's yeah, it's, it's been 
fun. 

266
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,200
It's really enjoyable. 
And we do, we do plan to have 

267
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,160
more key crew from the show on 
in the future. 

268
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,120
I just have to figure out like, 
you know, sort of a topic 

269
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,680
around, you know, ways to have 
people on. 

270
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,640
So we're not just doing the hey,
we have this person from that 

271
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,960
that show everybody likes and 
listen to the podcast, which we 

272
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,000
try to make it pointed and 
relevant. 

273
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,960
I highly recommend that episode,
everybody. 

274
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,240
Once again, it's the stuffed 
dreams are made of podcasts that

275
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,160
that Ryan does with David 
Mandel, who we love. 

276
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,160
Who we love David Mandel. 
Yeah, we love so many of the 

277
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,560
shows he's made too. 
Or big comedian delight. 

278
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,440
Yeah, so big. 
Lots of great takes in that one.

279
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,920
You'll hear about like famous 
directors like Steven Spielberg 

280
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,520
and and there's some great 
anecdotes in that one that 

281
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,000
that'll make you chuckle. 
Yes, it's our it's our movie 

282
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,120
collecting podcast and we 
actually did do an episode with 

283
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,480
Peter Janson, who is the guy 
that made our made dark sister 

284
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,600
and black fire. 
He's a real blacksmith, a real 

285
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,320
sword maker. 
There's a it's a it's a prior 

286
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,440
episode from a couple years ago,
but you can go search it in the 

287
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,240
history and find it's a 
fascinating discussion with a 

288
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,360
guy who actually makes like real
swords the old way that they 

289
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,160
were made thousands of years ago
and did it for our show. 

290
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,240
So really incredible. 
Wow, that's really cool. 

291
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,360
What about things that you've 
taken for yourself Hot. 

292
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,600
Any hot D props that you you own
or that you're particularly 

293
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,640
proud of, or that that you want 
to take home that you haven't 

294
00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,920
yet? 
Yes, I do. 

295
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,200
I do have stuff, of course, 
things that leave with me. 

296
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,800
Yeah, I mean, I have I have a 
couple of a couple of things. 

297
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,680
I have a, a, a squishy dragon 
egg that got that got damaged 

298
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,280
that all of that I loved and 
took when Damon and Ranira were 

299
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,800
playing dragon egg football, 
bridge of Dragonstone. 

300
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,320
So they made a squishy, a 
squishy version of that. 

301
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,280
So it was safe for the safe for 
the actors. 

302
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,960
It's like a nerf. 
It's a nerf version, but you 

303
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,120
can't actually tell it's nerf 
until you pick it up, which I 

304
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,080
just loved about it. 
And, and I have, I have one of 

305
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:40,280
one of Damon's dinged up 
tournament helmets from the from

306
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,040
the tournament, the first 
episode just because I love that

307
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,000
design so much. 
That one got kind of yeah, they 

308
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,040
were getting like sort of 
damaged taking them on, taking 

309
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,440
them off on on set. 
And the, the wings were made 

310
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,480
soft for safety and all that. 
So, so I just grabbed one that 

311
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,120
they that was sort of beat up 
because I love, I love that 

312
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,120
stuff. 
But yes, love, love all that, 

313
00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,920
love all that stuff. 
I'm. 

314
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,960
Going to talk to you about one 
of my favorite props. 

315
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,480
This is a listener question as 
well from listener Dom 

316
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,760
Tartaglia. 
He asks which small council orb 

317
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,960
is your favorite? 
And I want to add on and say, 

318
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,160
yeah, we want the orbs. 
I mean, orbs, those are great 

319
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,680
inventions, by the way. 
Yes. 

320
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,040
I love this idea. 
Yeah, that was actually, that 

321
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,599
was, that was Claire Richards 
and who's our set decorator in 

322
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,240
her department. 
I forget who actually had had 

323
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,840
the idea. 
It might have been Ellie, Ellie 

324
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,680
Murphy, who was also on the 
podcast at some point. 

325
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,480
As lovely as our our prop maker.
I forget whose idea it was, but 

326
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,600
it was essentially like, we know
this is kind of, you know, it's 

327
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,680
kind of not silly, but sort of 
unnecessary. 

328
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,280
But we, they love this idea of 
there there being this bit of 

329
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,680
formality and taking a seat at 
that, at that table. 

330
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:47,880
And I loved it as soon as they 
pitched. 

331
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,880
And of course it's props and 
physical interaction with, with 

332
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,080
beautiful things. 
Probably Viserys's would be my 

333
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,560
favorite from the first series 
'cause it was just so ornate and

334
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,840
beautiful. 
There's a bunch of new cool 

335
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,240
ones. 
We actually, they, they actually

336
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,960
made them. 
You'll see it this season. 

337
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,760
They're a touch larger than they
were. 

338
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,160
And they're all, they're all 
very intricate and beautiful. 

339
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,560
And it's funny 'cause the 
characters, the, the characters,

340
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,120
the actors that interact, 
although they, they get very 

341
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,080
attached to it and they really 
don't touch my orb, don't touch 

342
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:22,040
my ball as they go and they go 
and, and sit in and, and yeah, 

343
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,680
it plays. 
There's one that actually plays 

344
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,520
a, a, a, a bit of a story role 
this year. 

345
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,160
So I will, I will leave it at 
that. 

346
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,480
But there's a there's a nice 
one. 

347
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:34,120
Yeah, yeah, poor that one. 
That's also true. 

348
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,720
The killed poor Beesbury. 
Did he get to keep his orb? 

349
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:41,400
Or we let him. 
He left with it still embedded 

350
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,520
in his eye socket. 
So. 

351
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,160
Yeah, Brutal. 
Brutal. 

352
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,600
Great. 
Bill Patterson. 

353
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,960
We use trackball mice in this 
household and I always really 

354
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,120
want one that'll just slot right
into my trackball like it's my 

355
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:53,800
fantasy. 
Yeah. 

356
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,960
I'll talk, I'll talk to products
about that. 

357
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,760
I think I like, I really like 
this idea. 

358
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,640
You should be able to, you 
should be able to go online and 

359
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,080
3D print your own. 
I think we should be able to do 

360
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:02,960
that. 
Absolutely. 

361
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,320
It'll it'll sell. 
Moving on to some maybe 

362
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,520
character specific stuff. 
Despite all the tragedy 

363
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,240
surrounding her, we love the 
development of Helena. 

364
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,240
The the maesters didn't record 
much about her personality, 

365
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,040
which is what you would expect 
from maesters. 

366
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,000
Unlike make her famous ancestor 
Danice the dreamer, Helena 

367
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,520
doesn't have a lot of book, 
doesn't have a book of her 

368
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,840
prophecies to prove that she has
this ability. 

369
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,600
Have any other characters like 
taking note of it? 

370
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,400
Or is that something we can read
into like her family or any 

371
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,400
servants or anything that have 
they caught even a hint of this 

372
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,040
or we're just curious about her 
in general? 

373
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,400
I mean, I think, I think Helena 
is regarded as a bit odd by 

374
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,720
those around her. 
And I think some people do pay a

375
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,520
bit of closer attention to her 
and that, you know, the, the her

376
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,880
story is, is developing. 
We actually do spend a lot of 

377
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:52,000
time with Helena, who's played 
wonderfully by Fiesta Ban in in,

378
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,480
in the story and and we do get a
lot more time with her in season

379
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,400
2. 
So I don't, you know, don't want

380
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,160
to give away or say anything too
much, but it it certainly is a a

381
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,200
feature of this. 
But you have to also remember 

382
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,080
that like we're we're telling a 
story during a historical period

383
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,160
where people who didn't have 
terms for things. 

384
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,160
So I think they just a kind of, 
you know, she's tend to regard 

385
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,800
it as an oddity and thus 
oftentimes dismissed, I think, 

386
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,640
or or ignored or they're just 
used. 

387
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,880
Oh, that's Helena. 
But there there definitely are 

388
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,400
people who. 
Are paying closer attention. 

389
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,240
Cool. 
On the subject of people who 

390
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,880
might be paying close attention 
to Targaryen activities, we 

391
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,880
noticed some sheep were included
in the scene of Aegon's 

392
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,600
coronation and it got us 
wondering if there's any chance 

393
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,760
the shepherd was part of the 
crowd watching Aegon's 

394
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,480
coronation. 
This is a question from listener

395
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,480
Danny Black. 
Said. 

396
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,080
Those sheep really got us. 
Oh, that's interesting. 

397
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,520
Yeah. 
I mean, that's so the sheep the 

398
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,400
sheep thing there. 
That story will get connected 

399
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:58,120
more, I think as as as you watch
the show, one of the I mean, one

400
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,400
of the things we were sort of 
fascinated with this season is 

401
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:07,360
like, you know, Dragons as real 
World War machines and what that

402
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,080
involves. 
And if you imagine a bunch of 

403
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,680
these rather large creatures who
probably have rather large 

404
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,120
appetites that are more dormant 
in times of peace, once they get

405
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:21,160
really active and are moving 
around a lot, there is a, there 

406
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,480
is a tax that comes along with 
that in the form of, of meat and

407
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:26,840
feed. 
And how does that affect the 

408
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,560
local economy? 
So there is a bit of that 

409
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,360
underlying story that you'll, 
you'll see, you know, running, 

410
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,760
running through the show As to 
the shepherd, like I, I do love 

411
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,360
that. 
I do love that story in the 

412
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:41,040
future from the book. 
I mean, he's a resident of 

413
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,720
King's Landing and, and has been
for some time in that story, 

414
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,280
sort of part of his story. 
So I think you have to imagine 

415
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,120
he's, he's out there in, you 
know, in the population and is 

416
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:53,680
observing and, and, and 
watching. 

417
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,480
And I think that's the fun with 
this show is that we spend so 

418
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,920
much time in these very, you 
spend more time in these locales

419
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,920
like King's Landing. 
So the city itself kind of 

420
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,200
becomes a character. 
So as the story marches on, when

421
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,720
you introduce new elements of 
that world because you've spent 

422
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,360
time in the world itself, they 
often, even though we're meeting

423
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,320
this person for the first time, 
maybe in the, I don't know, 20th

424
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,800
episode, you understand the 
world around them. 

425
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,360
So they feel realized because 
the world around them is 

426
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:26,040
realized. 
And that's, that's the hope of 

427
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,480
spending all that character work
in, in, in and around King's 

428
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,960
Landing. 
And we've done even more of that

429
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,520
this year that, you know, the 
the small folk definitely do 

430
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:37,320
feature in a way that I don't 
think they did in season one. 

431
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,280
Oh, that's exciting. 
We'd love to hear that. 

432
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,880
Kind of brings me to a related 
question I think from one of my 

433
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,680
favorite listener names, 
Baseborn man Jack says in Game 

434
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,320
of Thrones. 
Holy shit a great name. 

435
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,800
In in Game of Thrones some 
characters were off page for 

436
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,280
multiple books, as in the case 
of say Theon Greyjoy, but they 

437
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,360
chose to adapt his story by 
showing what was happening to 

438
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,120
him during that off page interim
period. 

439
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,840
Will House of the Dragon choose 
to do anything similar with some

440
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,240
fan favorite characters who do 
have large stretches of off page

441
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,600
time? 
You don't have to get too into 

442
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,880
details, but are you adding that
type of material or choosing to 

443
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,240
just let them be off page? 
I mean I it's always a case by 

444
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,960
case basis. 
I mean the real thing with 

445
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,440
television it is apov medium, 
meaning it's told in point of 

446
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,040
view and I think the best 
television is told in it. 

447
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,040
It's told in in sometimes one 
characters or multiple 

448
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,120
characters POV. 
And for me, I, I, I always 

449
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,440
gravitate towards point of view 
stories and, and film and 

450
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,320
television versus kind of 
objective God like views. 

451
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,200
We're OK, we're over here now 
with this person. 

452
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,000
We're over here now the way that
the way that we like to tell the

453
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,200
story because it is so huge and 
world spanning is that we follow

454
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,240
we we link in with certain point
of views. 

455
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,720
In this case, in this show, it's
often the larger Targaryen 

456
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,280
family that we're following 
this, this mixed and blended 

457
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,760
family of, of Viserys and his 
offspring and their, you know, 

458
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,600
cousins and all the blood and 
that crazy mixed up bloodline. 

459
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,040
So I think I think that's the 
kind of story that we're 

460
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,520
telling. 
It is Apov story. 

461
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,560
So take that as you as you will,
but that is the general approach

462
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,600
to how how we follow the story 
along. 

463
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,160
And sometimes the a device that 
I think works in a, in a linear 

464
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:31,920
novel format sometimes lends 
itself well to to the adaptation

465
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,840
television. 
Other times, in order to keep 

466
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,720
that character story alive, you 
do have to follow them and 

467
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,160
figure out, you know, what 
they're up to. 

468
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,840
And, and sometimes that's the 
fun of this adaptation is 

469
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,960
getting to fill in those blanks.
We know that the character 

470
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,560
started here and ended up 
started at point A and ended up 

471
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,400
over point D And what's the B&C 
along the way and what would 

472
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,280
that have looked like? 
And you have to contend with the

473
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,680
multiple sources in Fire and 
Blood which give you, sometimes 

474
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,120
they give wildly different 
takes, sometimes they're pretty 

475
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:00,000
aligned, but sometimes they give
wildly different. 

476
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,440
You have to choose which one to 
go with or maybe do something 

477
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,760
that maybe pays a little bit of 
service to both in order to 

478
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,800
explain how that view could have
developed. 

479
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,840
And yeah, it's it's, it's pretty
neat. 

480
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,080
We have some new merch in our 
threadless shop. 

481
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:19,400
We have these Dance of the 
Dragons tour poster style 

482
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,880
T-shirts. 
I mean, you could get them on 

483
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,800
other products if you so chose, 
or you could get them as a tour 

484
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,160
poster. 
They're blacks versus greens, 

485
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,360
and they list the various 
altercations of the Dance of the

486
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,120
Dragons. 
So check that out at 

487
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,400
historyofwesteros.com at the 
shirts link, or you can go 

488
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,520
directly to 
historyofwesteros.threadless.com

489
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,680
and tag us in any pictures of 
you in your new merch. 

490
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,400
The dragon bond is something 
that people are really 

491
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,760
fascinated by. 
Sometimes it seems like a human 

492
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,560
dog relationship where the dog 
seems to kind of understand, but

493
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,600
there's but at other times it 
seems like maybe there's a 

494
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,640
little more going on. 
Is that something that gets 

495
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,400
explored more this season or 
something that you've like to 

496
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,920
think about, or anything you can
say about the dragon bond I 

497
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,400
think people would love to hear.
Yeah, I mean, it's an important 

498
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,240
feature of the show. 
And I think the the fun and the 

499
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,040
challenge of making House of the
Dragon is I think that there are

500
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,720
so many Dragons and dragon 
riders, which creates a, a, a, a

501
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,240
really rich tapestry. 
But if you do the same thing all

502
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,880
the time with if everybody has 
the same, the same claiming 

503
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,120
experience, the same bonding 
experience, the same 

504
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,960
relationship with their dragon, 
it it can become a bit, you 

505
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,080
know, why are we doing this? 
This is an opportunity we felt 

506
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,920
in the TV show for some, some 
some world building. 

507
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,480
So yes, I think you've intuited 
the right thing that some of 

508
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,960
those relationships are 
different than others. 

509
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,640
Some some are seem more 
intuitive. 

510
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,080
I mean, the way we kind of look 
at it is it's like, you know, in

511
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,720
in the world of of Star Wars, 
the the Jedi's connection with 

512
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,960
the Force, some just have this 
more, this a stronger 

513
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,480
connection. 
Some of it manifests in a 

514
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,160
different way. 
And I think that can be a number

515
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,480
of things. 
It's the bond with the Dragon. 

516
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,160
It's the time spent in the bond.
It's flight hours in the 

517
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,800
cockpit, all, all, all the all 
those things. 

518
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,680
But I think, I think, yeah. 
I mean, the, the, the individual

519
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,000
riders bond with the dragon is 
going to be different on a rider

520
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,040
to rider and dragon to dragon, 
dragon level. 

521
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,280
And that is intentional. 
And sometimes it's in the 

522
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,760
subtext of the story, and other 
times I think we learn more, a 

523
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,760
little more into it in the text 
of the storytelling. 

524
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,160
That's neat, and I'm sure some 
of that has to do with the 

525
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,600
personalities of the riders and 
and the Dragons too 'cause I 

526
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,720
know you all got to correct play
around with different versions. 

527
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,920
It's not just we just got 
Daenerys basically in the 

528
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,600
original show. 
So there wasn't a lot of, there 

529
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,880
was just the kind of one 
experience, maybe John as well, 

530
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,680
but that that wasn't super 
developed. 

531
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,880
So yeah, I think people are 
super excited about that. 

532
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,160
Yeah. 
And then Daenerys in the 

533
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,440
original series, it was. 
That was a world where nobody 

534
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,520
had seen Dragons and, you know, 
150 years. 

535
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,760
So that was the concept in that 
world. 

536
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,640
Building is what, you know, what
does introducing a dragon into 

537
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,240
this world do and what happens? 
And Denarius doesn't have any 

538
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,120
training for it. 
I mean, she can go back and read

539
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:04,480
books, I guess, but there's no 
one there. 

540
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,760
There are no dragon keepers 
there or other, you know, older 

541
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,040
dragon riders have been doing it
for a while to give her tips and

542
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,040
advice. 
Whereas this world, Dragons are 

543
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,640
a feature of the infrastructure.
So there's dragon pits and 

544
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,640
dragon monks and dragon keepers,
and when they fly over King's 

545
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Landing, a lot of people don't 
even look up because that's 

546
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,960
living near Heathrow Airport, 
you see. 

547
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,960
You see 740 sevens. 
Go by all the time. 

548
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,320
It's just a it's just a 
different world. 

549
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:32,080
But it that requires our world 
to to to paint it into the 

550
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,720
subtext a little bit more than 
it it would be in a world where 

551
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,800
Dragons were brand new. 
Right on. 

552
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,360
So now that we're at the point 
where they've all or nearly all 

553
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,760
been put on the screen, who is 
your favorite dragon? 

554
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,440
Or what's your favorite dragon 
rider relationship perhaps? 

555
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,560
And has that changed maybe? 
I mean, I do love them all. 

556
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,000
It's so, it's so fun and I get 
to spend so much time with them 

557
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,120
because of the intricate making 
of one and how it's how it's 

558
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,720
designed in 2D and then modeled 
into 3D and, and then as they 

559
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,680
come alive in the, in the sound 
world with our incredible sound 

560
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,000
team as they develop their 
personalities that way. 

561
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,880
I mean, I, you know, I, it's a 
maybe a basic answer. 

562
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,200
I, I go back to Cyrax. 
I mean, that was the first 

563
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,800
dragon that we really saw 
rendered. 

564
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,480
And I think her relationship 
with Ranira is so specific. 

565
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,680
And I just I, I, I really love 
it. 

566
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,680
And Cyrax has to now in a way 
that Ranira is the is, is a 

567
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,960
ruler, a sovereign. 
Cyrax has to kind of take on 

568
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:43,600
that mantle and now of, of 
being, you know, being a, I 

569
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,920
don't know, an emblem of the 
crown in a way. 

570
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,080
And I just really enjoy, I love 
that design, particularly her, 

571
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,480
you know, her, her crown and, 
and the rendering of that 

572
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,120
dragon. 
So I've I've always gravitated 

573
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,880
towards that. 
But there there are. 

574
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,320
There are a number of new 
Dragons this year that I can't 

575
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,200
talk about now, but but I really
enjoyed introducing all of them 

576
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,880
into the show. 
It's almost like we asked you 

577
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,360
which of your children is your 
favorite. 

578
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,960
So sorry about that. 
Yeah. 

579
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,360
One of the Dragons that we saw 
last season was Vermathor and we

580
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,960
got to hear Vermathor's little 
lullaby. 

581
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,040
We also got to hear Nymeria's 
song that season. 

582
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,160
Are there any new in world songs
to look forward to either this 

583
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,080
season or in the works for a 
future season? 

584
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,520
Is that on your radar? 
Yes there is. 

585
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,080
There are. 
Nice, Yes, Exciting. 

586
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,560
We love. 
Those yeah, we do love those. 

587
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,960
They were fun to sing along. 
Yeah. 

588
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,360
One of our favorite aspects of 
season one was how you guys 

589
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,440
fleshed out the relationships 
and dynamics between the 

590
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,640
characters more than in Fire and
Blood, which is to be expected. 

591
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,080
It's a history book. 
But you all did such a fantastic

592
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,600
job of bringing these characters
more to life. 

593
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,800
For example, we we thought 
Allison and Aegon's relationship

594
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,240
was fascinating, a lot of real 
world mother son troubles that 

595
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,800
you might see with all this 
power thrown in, which is quite 

596
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,200
a toxic thing to put into any 
relationship. 

597
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,640
But which relationships were you
maybe most excited to explore 

598
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,280
going into season 2? 
Or are there any any particular 

599
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,400
that maybe caught you by 
surprise as you were developing 

600
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,160
them? 
And or maybe the opposite just 

601
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,400
in general? 
We'd love to hear about that 

602
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,160
process. 
Yeah, I mean, I mean, look 

603
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,760
again, that's the big, the big 
challenge and also the fun of of

604
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,720
adapting a book like Fire and 
Blood, which is a history book. 

605
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,080
It isn't, it is intentionally an
outline of events that happened.

606
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,040
And it's not a, it's, it's not 
a, a, a, a narrative where 

607
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,400
you're inside a character's head
the way you are in a, you know, 

608
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,720
a Song of Ice and Fire in the, 
in the text of those pages. 

609
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720
So it does require a lot of us 
to differentiate these 

610
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,600
characters and imbue them with 
flaws and faults and and 

611
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,200
personalities and wants and 
dreams and things like that that

612
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,840
aren't necessarily painted in so
clearly on the on the page. 

613
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,120
And that's frankly, that's the 
thing that attracts me to 

614
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,640
dramatic writing is those 
interrelationships. 

615
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,680
And we have such a wonderful 
ensemble cast of characters on 

616
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,800
this show with great characters 
and also played by great actors,

617
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,560
that a lot of the fun of that is
finding those textured 

618
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,200
relationships in the show. 
And I would say, look, they're 

619
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,880
all great. 
We have this cast is a garage 

620
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,480
full of Ferraris. 
It's such a delight to walk in 

621
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,280
every day and get to take take 
somebody for a spin with your 

622
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,040
dialogue. 
And they make they make, they 

623
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,360
make everybody, they make 
everybody look better. 

624
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,560
You know, the writers writers, 
especially with the way they 

625
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,400
perform this. 
But I think the thing that I'm 

626
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,200
most excited about sort of on a,
on a larger dramatic level, 

627
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,360
narrative level in season 2 is 
just getting to live with all 

628
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,520
the kids. 
The kids that we barely got to 

629
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:50,920
know in season one, the Allisons
children, Amond and Egon and 

630
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,480
Helena, and then Ranier in her 
relationship with Jace. 

631
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,920
And then on on some level too, 
with, with, you know, Bayla and 

632
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,000
Reyna and their complicated 
relationship with their father 

633
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,720
and their and, and, you know, 
their their family and where 

634
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,320
they fit into everything. 
And I think just all of those 

635
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,920
interrelationships, the way they
interact with the adults and 

636
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,400
also with each other does create
a lot of the the dramatic 

637
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,680
texture of season 2. 
And I'm excited for people to 

638
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,520
see it because it's just a cast 
of these wonderful young actors 

639
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,040
and, and I think they're really 
going to shine in a way that we 

640
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,760
they just didn't have time to in
season one because they didn't 

641
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,360
have the screen time. 
True. 

642
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,400
On the subject of characters 
that you maybe don't have screen

643
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,960
time for, we understand. 
We like to refer to the law of 

644
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,360
conservation of character as we 
got used to it for Game of 

645
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,320
Thrones. 
But I I got a know for my own 

646
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,160
purposes as a queer woman. 
There were three fairly notable 

647
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,760
queer slash sapphic 
relationships in the dance 

648
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,240
portion of Fire and Blood, which
was really pleasant. 

649
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,240
I'm not going to spoil any of 
them for our listeners, but I'm 

650
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,120
curious if we're going to see 
any of those relationships on 

651
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,400
the screen either this season or
later. 

652
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,960
Or adapted 'cause sometimes you 
might merge some of that into an

653
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,400
existing character. 
But are we going to see any of 

654
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,640
that type of relationship going 
forward? 

655
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,960
I mean, I will just say stay 
tuned without wanting to give 

656
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,159
anything away, but I, I, you 
know, I think going back to the 

657
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:18,000
previous question, I just think 
that's part of the textured fun 

658
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,360
of this world. 
And we know that we just got to 

659
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,880
spend a lot more time with 
people and get into their heads 

660
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,840
a lot more and, and their wants 
and dreams and things that 

661
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,960
they're thinking about. 
So I would just say, you know, 

662
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:34,400
stay, stay tuned. 
This continues to be a very rich

663
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,719
and textured world. 
Awesome, awesome. 

664
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,280
We got the chance to hear 
Matthew Needham speak about his 

665
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,040
character Laurie's at the 
convention in Los Angeles that 

666
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,840
you spoke to remotely, and he 
had some extremely insightful 

667
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,000
things to say about his 
character. 

668
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,920
But of course, he's not the one 
writing him. 

669
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,480
So his take, as brilliant as it 
was, isn't from the perspective 

670
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,320
of of the people who invented 
this character or fleshed him 

671
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,320
out. 
Who do you think that Larry's 

672
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,120
maybe has the most in common 
with, either from the series or 

673
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,880
maybe from a completely 
different series? 

674
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,000
Because he's he's fascinating 
and interesting and really fits 

675
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,960
in that role of that long line 
of expert intriguers that we've 

676
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,320
come to expect from Game of 
Thrones. 

677
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,600
And he hasn't even has a name 
that kind of lines up very well 

678
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:17,600
with that. 
What what, what? 

679
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,920
Just speak to us about Larry's 
and how y'all designed him and 

680
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,560
and things like that. 
Yeah, Matt Needham is just a 

681
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,720
fantastic actor. 
And he's he's, he's one of the, 

682
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,160
he's one of the many casts on 
the show that you write a line 

683
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,720
for and you're just delighted to
to watch him read it on set and 

684
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,720
see how he turns around and what
he does with it. 

685
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,520
And we, we love, we love writing
for Matt. 

686
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,320
And also, I would say a 
character who's very unlike the 

687
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,560
character that he plays on on 
screen, which I think is 

688
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,840
important to do to 
differentiate. 

689
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,160
But he, I mean, look, that's the
fun of this world. 

690
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,480
It's, it is an escapist fantasy 
world as as intricate and as 

691
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,800
adult as it is. 
You know, the song of Ice and 

692
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,640
Fire is a world of archetypes. 
I mean, part of the, the genius 

693
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,240
of, of the way George drafted 
characters, I think in, in the 

694
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:07,560
Song of Ice and Fire was taking 
archetypes like the Lancelot 

695
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,240
character and Jamie and sort of 
saying, well, what if Lancelot 

696
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,280
really existed and he was a 
complete Dick mess? 

697
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,800
And how do we, how do we, how do
we take him and turn that on its

698
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,080
ear? 
And then, and then, you know, 

699
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,440
create an evil character out of 
Lancelot, but then redeem him. 

700
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,760
And I think, I think that's the 
fun of this show. 

701
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,880
And then and then because Song 
of Ice and Fire is now so world 

702
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,960
renowned and famous, you have 
archetypes within the world and 

703
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,240
the, the schemer, the court, the
courtly schemer that's, you 

704
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:36,960
know, not a not a knight, but a,
you know, warrior of the mind, I

705
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,520
think has become an archetype 
and in a good way in this show. 

706
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,840
And we're of course, we know 
Varys and Littlefinger very well

707
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,680
at this point. 
And Larys fits into that rubric,

708
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,880
But I think he's different 
because he is, you know, as 

709
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:56,640
we've seen, I think he's just, 
he's detached from human emotion

710
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,800
in a, in a way that maybe the 
others aren't. 

711
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,280
And, you know, Varys was, you 
know, loyal servant of the of 

712
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,640
the realm to the end. 
I mean, he sort of plays like a 

713
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,960
mincing schemer. 
But then we kind of realized 

714
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,040
that there is an honorable 
streak to him. 

715
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,560
And Littlefinger, you know, he's
damaged and broken in his own 

716
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,640
way, but he's also, you know, he
also has real human wants and 

717
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,840
needs And and they're they're 
they're twisted at times, but he

718
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,280
does there, there is a there is 
a core sort of injury. 

719
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,600
He does have the, you know, the 
guy, the the bad guy in 

720
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,240
Ratatouille. 
We realize at the end that, 

721
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,040
yeah, it's just this this 
there's this core injury in his 

722
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,560
in his in his childhood. 
And I think Littlefinger has has

723
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,720
a similar streak. 
He was the bullied kid who was 

724
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,120
in love with the girl that, you 
know, got the jock and he was 

725
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,400
the nerd that didn't and that 
and that sort of defined him as 

726
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,040
a character. 
Laris is, is very different. 

727
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,480
And we'll see how that develops 
this year. 

728
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,840
I mean, he certainly he fits 
into the archetype, but of 

729
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,000
course we're not just creating 
one of the one of the old 

730
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,840
characters from Thrones and and 
I think you see where it goes. 

731
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,080
It has we have many seasons 
ahead for for for laris of 

732
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:05,080
stories to tell. 
So, so I'm, I'm, I'm pleased to 

733
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,800
know that we have such a great 
actor piloting him because it 

734
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,160
means that we can kind of go 
anywhere with him. 

735
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,440
Yeah. 
Oh, totally agree. 

736
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,800
Well, he does really come out as
a different character. 

737
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,280
And yeah, despite being in that,
fitting into that archetype so 

738
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,760
neatly. 
On the subject of modifying 

739
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,480
fleshing out characters, this is
a listener question from 

740
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,600
Betrayed King that I'm quite 
interested in. 

741
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,480
When you're creating or 
modifying original characters 

742
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,800
for the show, what goes into the
decision making process when 

743
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,200
you're deciding when to make 
changes? 

744
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,440
Like names, for example in some 
minor arcs surrounding the 

745
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,120
dance? 
The example I'll give is 

746
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,480
modifying Samuel Blackwood and 
Amos Bracken to William 

747
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,960
Blackwood and Gerald Bracken in 
season one. 

748
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,560
We understand that it has to 
happen sometimes, but I'm really

749
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,000
curious to know what factors 
play into the decision of when 

750
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,720
you decide to rename a character
and when you decide to keep 

751
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,920
their original name. 
I mean, you know that those 

752
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,200
characters are actually never 
really named on screen. 

753
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,960
So I think that's probably. 
Being. 

754
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,000
Taken from yeah, it might not 
be, you know, don't don't always

755
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,240
trust the source on it unless 
it's actually they're actually 

756
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,200
name name checked interesting in
in in the story. 

757
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,760
And I think sometimes with 
characters like those, we try to

758
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,680
be rather oblique because we 
unless we need to name them. 

759
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Sometimes it's better not to 
because it's it's easier to hold

760
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,120
the continuity of the story. 
And look, sometimes you things 

761
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,480
you plan far in advance and 
other things are it's the nature

762
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,640
of storytelling you to kind of 
develop as you go along. 

763
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,680
Remember that you know Darth 
Vader wasn't Luke's father until

764
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,280
Empire Strikes Back. 
As true. 

765
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,560
So, so I think, you know, we 
always try to hold true to the, 

766
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,880
the text of the book and 
particularly when the character 

767
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:49,480
has a, a true sort of rooting in
the history and, and, and in the

768
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,640
timeline of the history. 
And if they go on to have 

769
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,840
important sons or daughters, we 
want to keep all those things 

770
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,720
intact. 
So that, you know, anything that

771
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:00,880
we're kind of, you know, fussing
with in this timeline doesn't, 

772
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,840
you know, affect things on, on, 
on, down, on, down the road. 

773
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,760
And we we try to hue to the, you
know, to the, to the text when, 

774
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,560
whenever possible. 
Sometimes because time has been 

775
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,440
compressed a little bit in the 
show, you know, we, we compress 

776
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,920
the time as as many as as many 
years as were covered by the 

777
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,320
first season. 
It was still a little more 

778
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,560
compressed than actually those 
those years happened between 

779
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,400
Rainier's childhood and the 
beginning of the Dance of the 

780
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,600
Dragons. 
So I think some of that requires

781
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,040
a bit of, you know, shuffling 
around, but I don't think we've 

782
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,480
any made any big moves in, in 
that way intentionally because 

783
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,480
we always have an eye on on, you
know, how is this going to 

784
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,160
affect this show and possibly 
other spin offs and things on on

785
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,200
down the road. 
We're very we're very keen to 

786
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:42,360
that. 
And then thankfully I have, I 

787
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,920
have not just me, but other fire
and blood history experts in the

788
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,880
room with me to sort of check on
that stuff as we go. 

789
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,360
Yes, indeed you do. 
You know, we actually were kind 

790
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,720
of tickled by there being 
different Blackwood bracket 

791
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,600
names because it just kind of 
speaks to the feud being so 

792
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,680
eternal that there's always 
going to be another Blackwood 

793
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,000
and bracket. 
You know, we, we kind of liked. 

794
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,520
It they, they just hate each 
other. 

795
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,520
They, they, they will fight. 
They will fight over everything 

796
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,560
and anything. 
We just did a full episode on 

797
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,680
that feud a couple weeks ago. 
So we're we're we're recently 

798
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,880
very fresh on that, but turning 
to an entirely different long 

799
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,600
running aspect of Westeros and 
the entire world that the 

800
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,120
supernatural elements of the 
world building something that 

801
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,520
George uses very carefully and 
cautiously, but they're always 

802
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,800
present. 
Are there any particulars there 

803
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,640
that you feel drawn to or that 
you wanted to draw out more? 

804
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,800
And do you kind of lean on 
George's style for that or do 

805
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,680
you kind of have to do it 
differently because it's a 

806
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,880
different medium or just any, 
any kind of commentary on where 

807
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,800
you get your inspiration for the
supernatural elements and, and 

808
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,920
if you want to speak to that in 
general, we would love to hear. 

809
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,480
Yeah, for sure. 
And look, I, I love this stuff. 

810
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,640
I mean, it's what attracted me 
to I the thing that I remember 

811
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,040
the thing grabbing me when I 
first read Game of Thrones, the 

812
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,840
the novel Game of Thrones, you 
know, probably 25 years ago at 

813
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:04,280
this point, was that that great 
opening prologue at the top, top

814
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,680
of the book with Waymar Royce, 
you know, wandering around the 

815
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,320
North and the reveal at the end.
It feels like it feels so real 

816
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,960
and just a, you know, a bunch of
Rangers and Squires and things 

817
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,840
outranging in a in a cold place.
And then suddenly you realize 

818
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,200
that there are ice monsters 
being dead and, and, and the 

819
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,960
way, the way the weird played in
with the, the, the very real and

820
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,680
textural world that George had 
created. 

821
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,040
And then that, that always suck 
with me. 

822
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,640
But I'm a weird fiction fan, you
know, I love, I love all of that

823
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,880
stuff and Robert E Howard and, 
and Conan and HP Lovecraft. 

824
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,360
And I love the way that stuff is
realized in these very textured 

825
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,200
worlds where it doesn't feel 
cast off and not special and 

826
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,200
there's a cost to it. 
And it's not always fully 

827
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,640
explained either, which I also 
think is important when you get 

828
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,800
into the the didactic rules of 
of a magic system. 

829
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,080
Those books interest me less 
than ones that are a little bit 

830
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,840
more out there in the ether and 
not fully understood by the 

831
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,640
characters that don't occupy 
that world. 

832
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,400
So we definitely tried to stay 
true to George's world. 

833
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,240
I think there's less fantasy, 
there are less fantasy elements 

834
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:16,000
immediately apparent in the 
Dance of the Dragons other than 

835
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,480
the giant Dragons. 
But that stuff is all very alive

836
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,880
in this world, as we know from A
Song of Ice and Fire where you 

837
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,000
have wargs and face changers and
the undead. 

838
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,360
And I'm not saying those things 
are in our show fire magic, but 

839
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:34,160
the, those, those we know those 
systems exist in this world and,

840
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,520
and green magic and all those 
things. 

841
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,760
So I think we've tried to, I 
love that stuff. 

842
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,440
So I've definitely tried to, to 
employ it where it, it seems 

843
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,760
sensible and like good 
storytelling. 

844
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,000
And we're not just doing it 
gratuitously. 

845
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,120
But but, but I, yeah, I, I, I 
love it all and I lean into it. 

846
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,360
And I think, I think we're 
drawing, you know, drawing from 

847
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,440
George's world and the way that 
this stuff has been rendered in,

848
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,160
in great kind of genre fiction. 
Great. 

849
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,160
I think we have one final 
question to leave off with for 

850
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,600
you. 
Last year we talked to you a bit

851
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,680
about some of your favorite 
other eras in Fire and Blood. 

852
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,040
We wanted to get kind of a sense
of you, your other interests in 

853
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,840
the in the world. 
So I wanted to ask who's your 

854
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,000
favorite Targaryen from a non 
dance era barring Egg, who you 

855
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,720
mentioned last time and who 
everyone loves Egg? 

856
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,280
Yeah, we probably love him even 
more now that we have a casting 

857
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,440
and, you know, a head shaving 
video and all that. 

858
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:31,920
We love that little boy, he's 
been so adorable. 

859
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,040
But barring the Duncan Egg, 
mention who? 

860
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,760
Who are some of your favorite 
Targaryens? 

861
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:38,600
I mean, I immediately go to 
Bloodraven. 

862
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,000
I just find Bloodraven 
absolutely fascinating. 

863
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,120
Yeah, I would say Bloodraven or 
Vicenya. 

864
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,400
I I I found a great affinity for
Vicena in in writing this story 

865
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,200
because her history is even 
though it's 100 years old in 

866
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,840
this world, I think she cast 
this very tall shadow Egg on the

867
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,760
Conqueror is constantly 
mentioned in our show. 

868
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,200
As we know everybody's invoking 
Egg On all the time like he's 

869
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,720
this. 
Everything Egg On did was great 

870
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:05,480
and and unimpeachable and if it 
was good enough for Egg On, it's

871
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,160
good. 
It's good enough for us, except 

872
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,240
of course, for conquering Dorn, 
which he failed to do. 

873
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,040
But I, I love the, I love the 
shadow that Vicenia casts over, 

874
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,880
over our history, particularly 
as a strong female sovereign 

875
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,520
type, even though she wasn't 
actually the sovereign in a 

876
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,520
world where we have a, a female 
sovereign. 

877
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,200
I will say, I just think that's 
a it's it's something that I got

878
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,960
more and more attracted to 
Vicenia in the writing and 

879
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,800
creation of this show than I 
probably thought I would. 

880
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,440
That's really cool. 
Yeah. 

881
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,280
I remember last time we asked 
you about this era and you said 

882
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,200
you were you were excited about 
Aegon the 2nd. 

883
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,600
And that was a great comment, 
'cause we, we were, we're all 

884
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,000
seeing, you know, the, the 
dynamics of this character. 

885
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,440
And you were right. 
You were right. 

886
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,760
He is very, he's, he's a great, 
I wouldn't call him a villa, but

887
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,360
he's not a good guy either, you 
know. 

888
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,120
I love to watch you're in for 
such a treat. 

889
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:02,880
Tom is Tom Glencarny is such as 
such a genius and I just you're 

890
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,240
in for you're just in for a 
treat with his portrayal of of 

891
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,480
of Vagon. 
I mentioned that Game of Thrones

892
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,320
convention in Los Angeles, which
he was on stage for several 

893
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,560
times. 
And yes, he he dazzled us all. 

894
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,600
His commentary was great, 
especially his time with Jack 

895
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,840
Leeson. 
And they did a little skit about

896
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:24,680
being born of incest. 
And yeah, it really got to see 

897
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,080
their chops there. 
They're such great guys. 

898
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,720
Yeah, Eggon was born of state 
approved incest. 

899
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,800
That's true. 
Joffrey, not so much. 

900
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,360
That's a good term. 
State approved incest. 

901
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,640
We'll remember that one. 
Well, Ryan, that's all the 

902
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,520
questions we have. 
Thank you so much for your time.

903
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,400
I know you have so much to do. 
You're super busy. 

904
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,520
The show comes out so soon. 
So I mean, I know you don't, you

905
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,160
don't do a lot of podcast 
interviews. 

906
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,800
So we're particularly thankful 
for that. 

907
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,000
And we'll be looking forward to 
all your I know you should give 

908
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,040
a bunch of interviews coming out
the next couple weeks. 

909
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,680
We will be listening and reading
them all. 

910
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,840
We will be for sure, right. 
So, yeah, so. 

911
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,480
Thank you guys. 
All right, thanks everybody. 

912
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,360
We'll be back with more content 
soon. 

913
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,120
Thanks again, Ryan. 
Well, that was a lot of fun. 

914
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,320
We had a great time interviewing
Ryan once again. 

915
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,560
Our streaming schedule for 
season 2 is Mondays at six non 

916
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,720
spoilery episodes, Saturdays at 
3:00 Eastern spoilery episodes 

917
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,040
where we talk about everything 
we know that might be coming. 

918
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,440
No leaks, but definitely what we
know from the books. 

919
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,600
And some Wednesdays we'll have 
content at 7 Eastern, whether 

920
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,880
scripted or live streamed, 
you'll find out. 

921
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,720
And you can always check our 
YouTube channel. 

922
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:59,840
The live tab has all the up to 
Those of you who who support us 

923
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,880
and those of you who share the 
interview and share our content 

924
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,120
in general, we appreciate it. 
You can also hit us up at 

925
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,800
westeroshistory@gmail.com if you
have any further questions or 

926
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,880
comments. 
Until next time Valar reread us 

927
00:48:33,920 --> 00:49:05,920
the 
the.