1
00:00:48,190 --> 00:00:54,110
Despite how deep we are into the
series, the Starks as skin 

2
00:00:54,110 --> 00:00:58,230
changers, that aspect of their 
story remains fairly untapped, 

3
00:00:58,230 --> 00:01:01,270
fairly new. 
That's particularly true as 

4
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individuals, but as a group, it 
hasn't even been scratched as a 

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surface right. 
They don't know that about each 

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other. 
They barely know it about 

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themselves. 
They don't really know what they

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are. 
Bran maybe does a little more 

9
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,640
so, but he's basically the only 
one being taught how to use 

10
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,800
those abilities. 
He's really The only exception 

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00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,120
here. 
What will happen with John's 

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abilities when he died? 
What about Aria? 

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She's already skin changed into 
a cat, though she doesn't call 

14
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,040
it skin changing. 
She doesn't exactly know what's 

15
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,760
going on. 
She's figuring out how to use 

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00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,920
it. 
She has lots of dreams about 

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Nymeria, but yeah, she's never, 
I don't think, even used the 

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word warg or skin changer. 
It is. 

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The phrase has not been uttered 
in her presence as far as I'm 

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aware of. 
She certainly hasn't given it 

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any thought in that sense with 
Rickon, Rob and Sansa, yes, her 

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00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,480
too. 
There are variations and 

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00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,400
circumstances and things said 
directly by George RR Martin 

24
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that sheds lights on this. 
But they are headed to a reunion

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of sorts. 
We've all long predicted that 

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some or all of the remaining 
Starks will reconvene, probably 

27
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,520
at Winterfell, maybe not, but 
probably at Winterfell. 

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And when that happens, what 
they've learned about who they 

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are and what they can do will be
a matter of at least discussion.

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It certainly will be a matter of
interest to us. 

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Now, Vermeer said other skin 
changers can identify each 

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other. 
They can tell like, oh, I can 

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sense you're a skin changer. 
Will the Starks have that? 

34
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Will they sense each other in 
that manner? 

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Will that come up? 
That would be interesting. 

36
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,080
Will this method a mechanism of 
sorts? 

37
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,840
Will it be a way for them to 
fulfill their father's words? 

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The lone wolf dies, but the pack
survives. 

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00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,040
Will this be a a thing that 
unites them? 

40
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,560
I mean, the Starks are a pack of
wolves. 

41
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,960
Yeah, but they're a pack of skin
changers, too. 

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And with wolves that they can 
skin change into. 

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00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,480
So. 
And not only did he, Stark, get 

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00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,000
a direwolf that includes John, 
he is a Stark. 

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00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,360
He's not Ned Stark's son. 
The genders matched perfectly. 

46
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,600
You had exactly 4 male 
direwolves and two female. 

47
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,680
It was perfectly perfect 
alignment there. 

48
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,520
Blood Raven will later say one 
person in 1000 is born a skin 

49
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,720
changer. 
So how exactly do all 5 of Ned 

50
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,720
and Katz children plus John have
the talent? 

51
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,240
That's peculiar isn't it? 
Given those stats, it all just 

52
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,800
lines up so perfectly. 
And it starts in the 1st chapter

53
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,360
right? 
It's all began. 

54
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,080
Not counting the prologue, of 
course. 

55
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,720
It's it just happens in Chapter 
1 there. 

56
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It's a mystery and it's an 
initial part of the setup and 

57
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,200
it's mostly still not paid off 
as a plot line like this cool 

58
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,160
stuff is happening, but we 
aren't that far along in this 

59
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,640
particular aspect of our Song of
Ice and Fire journey. 

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00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,400
So we're going to talk about 
that today. 

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We've got outlook, series 
details, history. 

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We want to explore the magic and
the impact on their 

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personalities. 
In other words, the character 

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conflict created by this 
supernatural aspect of their of 

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themselves and what they're 
discovering. 

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And we've got all that and more 
on this episode of History of 

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Westeros podcast. 
Hello and welcome back 

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00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,040
everybody. 
We're so happy and lucky to be 

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with you here again, talking 
about our favorite book series. 

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00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,160
It is truly a privilege and 
we've got a great episode for 

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you today. 
I believe it's a fun topic 

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combining mystery and the 
supernatural and the Starks, 

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three things that are 
particularly popular in this 

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fandom. 
We are here most Monday or 

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Mondays. 
Excuse me. 

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We are here most Sundays. 
We're here very few Mondays. 

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You're. 
Really out of sorts. 

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Now I'm like I'm a day ahead, 
I'm already in the future or I'm

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in the past. 
I don't know which Monday am I 

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thinking of? 
No, almost every Sunday at 3:00 

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Eastern. 
We are live on YouTube. 

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00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640
Afterwards you can still watch 
the replay on YouTube, but 

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00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,440
within a week you can find it on
Spotify edited so it's a little 

84
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,680
bit cleaner. 
You can also find the audio 

85
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,360
version anywhere you find 
podcasts, any platform. 

86
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,720
And if you listen to us on 
Patreon as a paid member, you 

87
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,760
get an ad free experience in 
addition to all the other 

88
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,600
benefits that come with being a 
patron, like participation in 

89
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,240
Topics Moot 2025, which has just
begun where we haven't had a 

90
00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,520
chosen topic yet. 
We had a little warm up poll 

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about categories, which types of
topics y'all are most interested

92
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,520
in. 
That went really well. 

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So we're excited to go pick 16 
topics to make into episodes 

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00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,960
this year through Topics Mood 
2025, which is running in the 

95
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,160
first part of the year. 
You could sign up at at 

96
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,920
patreon.com/history Westeros. 
Shout out to our great friend 

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00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,600
Nina, who as always provides 
some really great takes on 

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whatever topic we happen to be 
dealing with this particular 

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00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,720
week. 
She certainly had some good 

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thoughts on the Starks and skin 
changing and the nature of it 

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all. 
Basically all the kind of stuff 

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that I set up here. 
She had lots of things to add to

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that. 
And the latest blog post on 

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goodqueenalley.tumblr.com, 
that's where you find Nina. 

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00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,400
That's good Queen Alley with 1L 
in alley. 

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00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,200
And the latest post over there 
is someone asking about the 

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accursed kings, which of course 
that's right up her alley. 

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Nina loves to talk accursed 
kings. 

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A comparison between a character
in that story and Melisandre is 

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what she's talking about on that
latest post, so check it out if 

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you are interested in that or 
many of the other things she's 

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written about. 
I'm sure you will have a good 

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00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:32,360
time reading her blog. 
If you have questions for us or 

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00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,800
comments, anything like that, 
you can post them live if you're

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00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,720
here and during the live stream 
or send them to us at 

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00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,360
westeroshistory@gmail.com or hit
us up on one of our socials. 

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Here's our trivia question. 
We will give you the answer at 

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the end, but there is a clue 
during the episode which might 

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00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,680
reveal the answer if you don't 
already know it, so pay close 

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00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,120
attention. 
The question is, rumors can get 

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00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,040
crazy in Westeros. 
Well, they can get crazy in the 

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00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,400
real world too, but hey, that's 
realistic, isn't it? 

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00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,520
Now, which POV character was 
said to have been a wolf with 

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00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,920
bat wings? 
Huh. 

125
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,200
Yeah. 
Which POV character was said to 

126
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,040
have been a wolf with bat wings?
Yeah, a lot of them are said to 

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00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:13,960
be wolves, but which one had bat
wings? 

128
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,400
All right, let's read you the 
different sections we have 

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00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,600
today. 
We're going to start with 

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00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,200
ancient tales then, which 
includes the Warg King and the 

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00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,760
War of the Wolves. 
Then we're going to talk about 

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00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,640
the current Starks. 
There's going to be a lot of 

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00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,600
overlap because we're going to 
talk about them as a group and 

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00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,040
individuals, but we're going to 
focus on each one in turn, kind 

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00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,160
of in order of how powerful we 
think they are as skin changers.

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00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,800
That could change over time, but
I think that the order is, well,

137
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,040
I think you'll probably agree 
with it. 

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00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:43,200
Some of you may quibble, but 
we'll see. 

139
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,440
Sansa, most likely the least 
powerful, then Rick and then 

140
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,240
Rob. 
It's where it gets a little 

141
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,760
tricky. 
Rick and could be more powerful 

142
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,160
than Rob, Who knows. 
John, then Arya, then Bran and. 

143
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,640
I think there's a strong 
argument for Sansa to be higher 

144
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,400
than them both. 
It's possible. 

145
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,320
Because of the the the 
indications that she might be 

146
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,240
connecting with another animal, 
which Rob and Rick on haven't 

147
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,680
done, but that's anyway we'll 
get into that. 

148
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:11,840
Very good point, Shay. 
Yeah, she's absolutely right. 

149
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,960
It isn't simple. 
You have to make up your own 

150
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,120
definitions for how to weigh 
these things. 

151
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,200
It isn't some sort of chart we 
can refer to like a well, her 

152
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,480
power is A5 and his is a six. 
Yeah, No, we have this is all. 

153
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,800
We're just kind of making it up 
as we go along. 

154
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,640
But we're basing it in, I think,
logic and detail from the 

155
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,280
stories and from what George has
said. 

156
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,320
So yeah. 
And then after that, we'll, 

157
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,720
we'll talk a little bit about 
why now, why is this happening 

158
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,799
now? 
Why are so many Starks or all 

159
00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:42,480
these Starks getting this 
ability? 

160
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,120
Why is this? 
What about why did they get 

161
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,720
direwolves? 
A few things on that. 

162
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,600
And then at the end, we'll talk 
about the Stark reunification, 

163
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,760
which is something we've all 
expected at some point and how 

164
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,360
we're not going to cover the 
entire Stark unit reunification.

165
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,760
That's probably a whole episode 
on its own. 

166
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,360
But we're going to talk about 
how the skin changing fits into 

167
00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,840
all that, how that's something 
they can talk about. 

168
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,040
That's something they can 
connect over, how something, it 

169
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,840
might be something that 
separates them from the rest of 

170
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,280
society, but they can share with
each other because they all have

171
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:08,840
that. 
There's a lot of quotes in this 

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00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,880
episode that'll be fun. 
And let's get started with such 

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00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,680
a quote, but not from the books,
from George RR Martin himself. 

174
00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:22,600
This came from a convention 
appearance in the year 2000. 

175
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,760
And the quote comes to us from 
the questioner, Linda Elaine. 

176
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,320
Here it is. 
I don't know if I want to get 

177
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,960
into genetics. 
This is fantasy, not sci-fi, he 

178
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,960
replied. 
I don't think this is 

179
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,840
necessarily a Stark ability 
though. 

180
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,840
All the children have it to 1 
extent or another. 

181
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,520
They also realize it to 1 extent
or another. 

182
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,720
Arya doesn't realize she has it.
She keeps thinking she has these

183
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,200
weird dreams. 
And of course, Bran is much 

184
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,640
further along. 
So that's huge, right? 

185
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,760
I mean, and it's big for us in 
terms of like researching, just 

186
00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,600
trying to figure it out. 
We don't have to think of it as 

187
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:00,680
genetic. 
It's not something that's 

188
00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:03,280
necessarily passed down from 
father to son, from mother to 

189
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,920
son or whatever daughter, 
etcetera. 

190
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,480
It's doesn't work that way. 
He doesn't tell us how it does 

191
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,320
work, so it still leaves us in 
the dark a bit. 

192
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,760
But we do know one way it 
doesn't work, and it's the one 

193
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,040
that you would probably default 
to thinking it's probably 

194
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,400
genetic, but no, it's not. 
George says so straight up here.

195
00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:20,240
It's very curious that he says 
that. 

196
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,400
Not only do they all have it, 
which is again, that's why we're

197
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,400
very sure that Sansa has it. 
You can't really argue that 

198
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,560
Sansa has the skill when George 
says straight up she does so 

199
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,960
that discussion is over. 
She definitely has it, but to 

200
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,480
what extent? 
That discussion is very much in 

201
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,960
play. 
He also says that they all 

202
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,560
realize they have it to some 
extent, which is also very 

203
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:45,120
interesting because in the next 
sentence he says Aria doesn't 

204
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,120
realize it, but she realizes 
something she she has in these 

205
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,440
dreams and she doesn't quite 
frame that properly. 

206
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,640
And of course, Aria being, what,
11 years old at this point 

207
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,560
doesn't exactly prepare her for 
making these decisions and for 

208
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,000
perceiving things the as an 
adult might. 

209
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,240
On the other, on the other hand,
it also helps understand things 

210
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,040
in a way that maybe an adult 
would prequalify, you know, 

211
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,680
preconceived notions. 
A child is coming at it fresher,

212
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,400
which is really big for Bran and
and Ricken especially. 

213
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,640
So the younger Starks have some 
aspects to this that are a 

214
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,960
little unusual. 
Their age is very important. 

215
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,680
You know, they are, they're all 
getting the ability at the same 

216
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,000
time chronologically, but it's 
hitting them at different ages. 

217
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,400
It's going to have a bigger 
impact on Ricken's personality 

218
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,600
than it does on, say, John's 
because he's already mostly an 

219
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:31,320
adult. 
He already had. 

220
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,480
He's already partly developed as
a human being. 

221
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,600
So this is something added on to
him. 

222
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,360
Whereas for Ricken, it's coming 
along when he's 3. 

223
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,160
It's already a big part of his. 
By the time he turns 5, which I 

224
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,440
think about how old he is now, 
it's already a huge part of him.

225
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,960
He's already lived with it for a
more than 1/3 of his life. 

226
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,520
Not the case for the other 
stars. 

227
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,400
So it's nice for us to have this
clarification from George, but 

228
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,080
it it, it asks it, it does 
create new questions while 

229
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,560
answering one big one. 
So a lot of you are probably 

230
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,120
surprised at that, maybe mildly 
to extremely surprised. 

231
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:05,280
A few of you may have already 
known about that or has your 

232
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,680
suspicions because it doesn't 
really come out looking. 

233
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:11,000
If you really dig into it. 
It's like this. 

234
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,880
How could this be genetic if all
of them have it and John has it 

235
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,840
too? 
John's not directly related to 

236
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,400
Ned Stark. 
He's came from Liana and 

237
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,440
Rhaegar. 
So the genetics part kind of 

238
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,520
falls a little bit by the 
wayside when you think about 

239
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,640
that way. 
Now this is also that quote, as 

240
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,040
I said, came in the year 2000. 
So a Storm of Swords had just 

241
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,240
come out. 
So some of the stuff was new 

242
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,000
even for George, like he had 
just written it, right. 

243
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,000
Arya, as we said, it's probably 
the second most powerful, but 

244
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,600
she doesn't really have any skin
changing. 

245
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,360
Stuff happened to her in Clash 
of Kings in In a Storm of 

246
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,360
Swords. 
She does. 

247
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,000
It comes out pretty big, but in 
A Clash of Kings, it's really 

248
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,640
just Bran having that and the 
other Starks. 

249
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,080
It's more like there's rumors 
and maybe like people talk about

250
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,880
Rob because he's got his 
direwolf by him in war and 

251
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,440
there's rumors, but it isn't 
necessarily drawn from direct 

252
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,400
evidence of skin changing. 
It's just that this dude has a 

253
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,320
direwolf with him at all times 
and people are going to talk 

254
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,080
about that now as well. 
John has a major wolf dream in 

255
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:13,120
the Clash of Kings, one that's 
particularly peculiar, so that's

256
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,080
interesting too. 
Maybe going beyond the Wall 

257
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,000
triggered some things, who 
knows, but it's all part of this

258
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,480
big mystery. 
Vermeer expected or wanted some 

259
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,640
of his children to have the 
gift, and he laments that none 

260
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,680
of them did now, that neither 
did his parents. 

261
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,160
So he could have maybe figured 
out that it isn't that. 

262
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,880
Passing it down from father to 
son, mother to daughter, 

263
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,720
whatever, isn't necessarily how 
it works. 

264
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:42,080
But what other model do Medieval
type people think about here? 

265
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,600
What other idea are they going 
to have? 

266
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:44,880
Well, where is this going to 
come from? 

267
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,240
Is that the God, some God just 
going to like point at you and 

268
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,720
say you now have this ability 
and they did that when you were 

269
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,520
born. 
Genetics isn't the word they 

270
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,160
would use, but people inheriting
the traits of their families, 

271
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,800
how most of them would perceive 
all of this. 

272
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,880
And so having it not work that 
way is difficult for them to 

273
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,320
figure out in world. 
It's easy for us because George 

274
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,320
told us straight up. 
But they don't have the tools to

275
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,240
figure that out some other way. 
They don't have like, the 

276
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,920
scientific method and 
understanding of these things. 

277
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,160
So just yeah. 
How much is these? 

278
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,920
Do you think that it's just like
they had the dire wolves that 

279
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,800
helped with their bond and other
Starks in previous generations 

280
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,480
only spend time with a Raven or 
whatever? 

281
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,320
I you know what I mean? 
Like the animals they're exposed

282
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,480
to. 
Maybe it helps to encourage 

283
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,160
unlock that ability. 
I think it's a huge factor given

284
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,160
what we know. 
I think there's very little else

285
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,080
we can point to accept the 
direwolves as a major factor for

286
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,600
sort of awakening or unlocking 
that ability in a way that maybe

287
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,960
other animals wouldn't cause. 
Yes, like a Stark, you'd think 

288
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,160
they would. 
There'd be dogs and horses and, 

289
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,400
and in Bran's case, some birds 
here and there that he deals 

290
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,680
with on a regular basis. 
But they don't have that kind of

291
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,200
bond with those animals that 
they do with their direwolf. 

292
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,320
The direwolf is, is like a 
special animal in terms of their

293
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,280
relationship, even without the 
magical elements. 

294
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,520
None of them had a pet dog prior
to the direwolves, right? 

295
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,520
They may have dogs that they 
liked, but there's no like 

296
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,920
highborn nobles in this setting 
don't really have pet dogs. 

297
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,640
They don't really think of it 
that way. 

298
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,120
It's not the relationship that 
we have with animals in in our 

299
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,360
world is different, you know, so
the concept of a pet. 

300
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,320
Is not. 
Quite how they think of a lot of

301
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,640
these things, like we have a 
relationship with animals but 

302
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,480
pet owner isn't exactly how it 
works, right? 

303
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,480
More of them. 
For one thing, most animals are 

304
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:33,920
livestock. 
It's not. 

305
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,520
Most people can't afford to have
animals purely for 

306
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,400
companionship. 
And as I said, think of an 

307
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,760
example of any highborn noble in
all of Westeros that has a dog 

308
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,600
as a pet that they keep buying 
them all the time. 

309
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,480
It's pretty rare. 
I can't even think of one off 

310
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,240
the top of my head. 
There probably is a couple, but 

311
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,520
certainly not the Starks. 
So it would be the first time 

312
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,320
that they really bonded with an 
animal would be these direwolves

313
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,440
and especially for the really 
young ones like Rickon and and 

314
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,600
and Bran. 
But yes, was that arranged? 

315
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:05,640
Was there something 
supernatural? 

316
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,920
Was there some powers that be 
Bloodraven or the Old Gods or 

317
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,600
something that they send those 
direwolves in order to activate 

318
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,120
these abilities that might exist
in lots of other Starks and lots

319
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,640
of other Northerners, if not 
lots of other people that just 

320
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,920
never get awakened. 
There's nothing that the trigger

321
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,080
isn't there, the teaching isn't 
there, the acceptance isn't 

322
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,480
there. 
Like none of these Starks want 

323
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,240
to be skin changers. 
They've all been told all their 

324
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,360
lives that skin changers are 
bad. 

325
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,200
They're evil old man stories. 
They're never the good guys. 

326
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,680
Skin changers aren't, there's no
good guy skin changer stories. 

327
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,520
They were told as a kid. 
They're it's something out of 

328
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,400
old man stories and it's they're
villainous exclusively in the 

329
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,960
real world of Westeros. 
Skin changers aren't all evil, 

330
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,960
right? 
Clearly not because these Starks

331
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,240
aren't evil and they're skin 
changers. 

332
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,840
That's the best proof you could 
possibly have. 

333
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:59,440
But cultural belief, South of 
the Wall, they are shunned, if 

334
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,480
not haunted down and killed. 
That's what Jojen says. 

335
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,560
We'll have a quote on that 
later. 

336
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,800
So it's not good that the Starks
grew up thinking this is bad. 

337
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,400
So it's a difficult thing for 
them to accept. 

338
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,000
And that lack of acceptance, 
given this cultural BIOS, makes 

339
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,599
it hard for them to engage with 
that part of themselves. 

340
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,520
They don't want to. 
They resist the what they are 

341
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,480
and don't use it. 
That's something that Vermeer 

342
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,760
thinks about John. 
He's like, boy, this kid's 

343
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,200
pretty strong, but he's just 
resisting what he is. 

344
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:31,280
If he was trained, if he was 
embracing his power, he could be

345
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,440
a real factor. 
But instead Vermeer's like, but 

346
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,040
he doesn't. 
So he's, he stinks, he sucks, 

347
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,560
he's he's powerless. 
I could take that wolf from him 

348
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,280
if I wanted to. 
That's Vermeer's inner 

349
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,440
monologue. 
Whether that's true or not, I 

350
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,240
don't know, but I suspect it 
might because he has a sense of 

351
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,320
these things. 
But Mance told him not to do it 

352
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,600
and and Vermeer listens. 
So more on that later. 

353
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,080
There's other places in besides 
the north where there's stories 

354
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,040
of skin changers. 
The particular one is Red Lake. 

355
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,080
Red Lake. 
Rose of Red Lake was a skin 

356
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,080
changer back in the day. 
Back in the days of Garth 

357
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,640
Greenhand. 
She could turn into a swan. 

358
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,120
I believe there's other queer 
things about Red Lake that are 

359
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,400
interesting, like a certain 
dragon was drawn to Red Lake at 

360
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,400
the end of the Dance of Dragons.
You all know what I'm talking 

361
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,080
about. 
It was a crane by the. 

362
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,360
Way. 
Oh, Crane, that's right, Not a. 

363
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,040
No, I was her. 
On how's Crane? 

364
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,800
Of course no. 
I was her on Michael Klarfeld's 

365
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,680
map. 
That's right. 

366
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:21,720
You were. 
Yeah, I remember that, but I 

367
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,200
couldn't remember the which 
which bird it was. 

368
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:24,560
So. 
Yeah. 

369
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:24,920
How? 
Yeah. 

370
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,480
The cranes and then that is. 
Oh, yeah. 

371
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,080
It even says here in my notes. 
I just, it's overlooked the 

372
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,320
cranes of Red Lake. 
It says it right here anyway. 

373
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,840
Yeah, Shaya was Rose of Red 
Lake. 

374
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,000
That's cool. 
She was the model for. 

375
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,160
That there's a lot of it down in
the in the reach though, because

376
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,840
of Garth Greenhand's kids, 
right? 

377
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,320
Multiple examples. 
But this is the, this is one of 

378
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,160
the ones that's the most 
prominent and remembered as 

379
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,120
such. 
There's probably other ones. 

380
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:48,480
Maybe they got lost in the 
shuffle. 

381
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,520
But it's very explicit that Rose
of Red Lake was a skin changer. 

382
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,640
And so maybe something about Red
Lake, maybe that region, it, it 

383
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,200
drew a dragon, it's got skin 
changer. 

384
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,720
Maybe that's like a hinge of the
world. 

385
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,920
You know what I mean? 
Like there's magic in that zone,

386
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,640
kind of like beyond the Wall and
other places where things just 

387
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,600
work a little differently. 
Now, if you were thinking, OK, 

388
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,520
maybe George was misquoted or 
maybe there's a chance that that

389
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,120
wasn't quite right, that he 
wasn't that that was that wasn't

390
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,280
the exact words he used. 
We have a backup quote from 

391
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,960
someone named Oberon. 
Hey, Oberon. 

392
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,400
Yeah. 
Right on. 

393
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,040
In 2000, so the following year, 
and the question was, are all 

394
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,680
the Stark children warg slash 
skin changers with their wolves?

395
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,120
And George says to a greater or 
lesser degree, yes, but the 

396
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,720
amount of control varies widely.
So he he, he had a second chance

397
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,640
to answer this question and 
answer it the same way. 

398
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,960
So to me, that settles it. 
There's no question here. 

399
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,400
Each Stark, all of them, that 
includes Sansa, that includes 

400
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,320
everyone, right? 
And he uses the word control. 

401
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,200
And this is a thing where we 
talk about the difference 

402
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,960
between skill and talent. 
Talent is inborn. 

403
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,040
Talent is something you you, 
you're born with. 

404
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,040
You come with it. 
You're 2 come preloaded with 

405
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,560
abilities. 
Skill is experience in using it,

406
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,720
your ability to use your talents
or creating, learning to do 

407
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,400
things that maybe you don't even
have a talent for. 

408
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,680
So all the Starks have the 
talent for skin changing. 

409
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,720
Very few of them have any skill.
Bran has some skill, maybe a lot

410
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,720
of skill. 
It's it's increasing rapidly. 

411
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,960
He's got a teacher. 
So that puts him in a different 

412
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,720
category. 
He's both the most talented and 

413
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,720
the most skilled. 
So he's really does kind of is 

414
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,640
an exception in a lot of ways. 
But are we supposed to believe 

415
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,280
that they won't get more 
control, more skill over time? 

416
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,040
I seriously doubt that. 
Of course they're going to get 

417
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,120
some more. 
How much more? 

418
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:31,440
Well, that is the question, but 
or a question, but certainly 

419
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,440
more than they have now. 
Certainly more awareness of what

420
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,360
they are coming to terms with 
it, things like that. 

421
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,720
There's lots of character 
moments that will fit into this,

422
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,280
the supernatural topic. 
And one of the biggest topics of

423
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,920
this episode, too, is, yeah, 
again, that inevitable Stark 

424
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,160
reunion, which I'm so fascinated
by. 

425
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,880
They're going to talk. 
Can they talk about their 

426
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,440
abilities? 
Like, hey, yeah, we've all had 

427
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,680
dreams. 
Like, hey, Bran, I had dreams of

428
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:54,880
being a wolf. 
And he's like, well, I can 

429
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,720
explain that to you because I've
been taught. 

430
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,480
Or will he keep it close to the 
cup? 

431
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,160
Will he not share that with them
because it will bring them to a 

432
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,560
place that he doesn't want them 
to be? 

433
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:05,720
Maybe he thinks it's bad for 
them. 

434
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,280
Maybe he thinks the power will 
corrupt them. 

435
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,520
I don't know. 
But I, I, I, I think more likely

436
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,000
he'll help them and teach them a
little bit. 

437
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,240
Which? 
Is John might be like, well, I 

438
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,920
was my wolf, yeah. 
Yeah, I've already been there. 

439
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,320
So, yeah. 
And that's a great example what 

440
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,240
a Shaya brings up there. 
There's these peculiar extra 

441
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,480
elements that certain 
individuals within this group of

442
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,720
Starks have that the others 
don't. 

443
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,240
Like John's going to have been 
dead and in his wolf 

444
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,280
potentially. 
Like how does that affect all 

445
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,440
this? 
Ari is getting all these lessons

446
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,000
from the faceless men and 
getting other trained and other 

447
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,800
abilities. 
She's getting training not in 

448
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,880
this, but the two can overlap. 
Like you telling me they're 

449
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,240
going to teach her how to sneak 
into places and be stealthy and 

450
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,520
murder people and she can't make
use of skin changing in that. 

451
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,080
I mean, she already has shown 
how valuable that can be You. 

452
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,880
A cat's eyes like that would be 
super powerful. 

453
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,400
Like she's already done that in 
the Red Keep. 

454
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,000
I got a long standing theory 
that Ari will return to the Red 

455
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,400
Keep and murder or assassinate 
Cersei or something like that. 

456
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,840
Or virus. 
Maybe not, probably not Cersei, 

457
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,200
that's still probably Jamie's 
ball of wax to deal with. 

458
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,280
But virus I like is an idea for 
for Aria to kill because of what

459
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:17,560
he's doing because he is a 
mummer who uses the tunnels and 

460
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,400
uses child slaves. 
These are things that Aria will 

461
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,840
hate and he's she's better than 
him at the mummery stuff now 

462
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,040
because well, well, she just is 
she's getting trained at it and 

463
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,120
she's going to beat him in his 
own game. 

464
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:31,640
I really like how that lines up.
Anyway, more on that later too, 

465
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,320
getting ahead of myself here. 
The point is she's being trained

466
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,960
in powerful other disciplines 
that might overlap her ability 

467
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,040
to use her skin changing talent.
And it's also very important 

468
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,880
into maintaining her identity. 
So the conversations they could 

469
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,520
have about what they've learned,
seen, dreamt, and teaching each 

470
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,680
other about these things and 
coming to terms with it amongst 

471
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,840
other loved ones rather than out
on the out on their own, 

472
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,400
isolated and and talking to 
people that that they don't know

473
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,040
who what their agenda is, who 
know what what does the face of 

474
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,600
man's real agenda with Arya? 
You know what is what else is 

475
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,200
happening in Blood Ravens cave 
there? 

476
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,160
What else is going on? 
You know that these are things 

477
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,520
that they can commiserate on. 
But let's go way farther back. 

478
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,440
Let's go into ancient times and 
get a little perspective on skin

479
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,600
changers in the ancient past 
quote. 

480
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,200
In truth, the legends of the 
Skin Changers are many, but the 

481
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,440
most common, brought from beyond
the Wall by men of the Night's 

482
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,040
Watch and recorded at the Wall 
by septons and masters of 

483
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,200
centuries past, hold that the 
Skin Changers not only 

484
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,920
communicated with beasts, but 
could control them by having 

485
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,640
their spirits mingle. 
Even among the wildlings, these 

486
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,800
skin changers were feared as 
unnatural men who could call on 

487
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,200
animals as allies. 
Some tales speak of skin 

488
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,040
changers losing themselves in 
their beasts, and others say 

489
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,640
that the animals could speak 
with a human voice when a skin 

490
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,160
changer controlled them. 
But all the tales agree that the

491
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,800
most common skin changers were 
men who controlled wolves, even 

492
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,200
dire wolves, and these at a 
special name among the Wild 

493
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,680
Wings wargs. 
Yeah. 

494
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,640
So this is a very ancient thing.
This has been around since the 

495
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,120
time of the First Men, actually 
been before that because the 

496
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,400
children of the Forest could do 
this. 

497
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,360
Yeah. 
So somehow the ability was 

498
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,200
passed from the children onto 
humanity. 

499
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:44,400
And perhaps if we ever are given
any insight into that mechanism,

500
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,280
it might help explain how some 
of this works, how the first 

501
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,200
human started to manifest that 
skill. 

502
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,600
Is it from somehow interbreeding
or was it powers given through 

503
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,760
worship or ritual? 
Who knows. 

504
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,760
But it's a it's a fascinating 
concept. 

505
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,640
Did how Stark choose the 
direwolf as their sigil? 

506
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,840
Because it's the top of the food
chain in the North, The most 

507
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,480
powerful animal in the North, 
like the Lion of Winter, so to 

508
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,720
speak. 
You know this. 

509
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,880
The Lannisters chose the lion 
'cause that's the most powerful 

510
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,600
animal in their region. 
The the grey Joyce chose the 

511
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,440
Kraken for similar reasons. 
Is this the is this why they 

512
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,920
chose it? 
Or was it because of the 

513
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,160
supernatural elements when maybe
the dire wolf or the wolves were

514
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:27,960
with this tradition of skin 
changing? 

515
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,520
Maybe this is something like 
that. 

516
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,800
Maybe it relates. 
And in terms of skin changers, 

517
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,160
even beyond the wall, Varamir 
was cast out by his own family. 

518
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,760
They didn't abandoned him. 
They didn't, you know, orphan 

519
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,440
him, but they gave him to his 
kind. 

520
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,720
They said he wasn't even called 
Varamir then of course he first 

521
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,080
skin changed into one of the 
family dogs which got him caught

522
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,000
because, well, he killed his 
brother with a while inside the 

523
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,800
together. 
This is a very this isn't a good

524
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,520
man or a good boy. 
So yet it's still kind of sad. 

525
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,960
You still feel bad for young 
Vermeer lump or bump, whichever 

526
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:12,240
he was forget he was either lump
or bump and he but being given 

527
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,240
away by your parents because of 
something you're born with that 

528
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,040
you can't control. 
That's that's yeah, I I feel 

529
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,720
empathy for that. 
Even though the particular 

530
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,000
individual is awful. 
He was awful before his parents 

531
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,760
gave him away too. 
So it's not like this is what 

532
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,880
made him evil. 
He says he's a font of knowledge

533
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,480
about skin changing. 
Even though this episode isn't 

534
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,400
about him. 
It's impossible not to use what 

535
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,280
we learned from his POV chapter 
and and from some of his quotes 

536
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,920
because we just have so little 
else to go on. 

537
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,680
And George used Vermeer as a 
vehicle for that. 

538
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,600
Like you very intentionally 
said, Hey, I'm going to tell you

539
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,080
all about skin changing stuff 
and Second Life and all that 

540
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,920
through this POV, which will 
then set up what's going to 

541
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,720
happen in the Stark POV's the 
the more important skin 

542
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,160
changers. 
So Vermeer, one of the things he

543
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,800
teaches us is that dogs are 
easier. 

544
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,680
For example, he killed his own 
brother by slipping into a dog 

545
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,120
when he barely had any training 
or ability. 

546
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:10,160
Now Vermeer was a very very 
naturally talented skin changer.

547
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,520
He's extremely powerful, was 
extremely powerful. 

548
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:18,440
But with a dog, frankly you 
don't need powers to get a dog 

549
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,440
to be obedient. 
It's not quite the same as skin 

550
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,360
changing I'm sure, but like dogs
are very loyal and obedient in 

551
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,040
the 1st place, you know? 
You maybe don't need that 

552
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,480
supernatural. 
So if you can only be in control

553
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,800
certain amount of animals at 
once, I can see why you wouldn't

554
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080
bother with dog because the dog 
will probably stick with you 

555
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,960
anyway. 
You know, dogs are great that 

556
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,240
way. 
Wolves are pack animals, but 

557
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,200
they're not tame or docile or 
obedient in ways that dogs can 

558
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,840
be. 
There was someone to take him as

559
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:49,600
he said they somehow his family 
knew who this community of skin 

560
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,800
changers were. 
They knew how to find them and 

561
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,560
hand Vermeer over to them and 
say, hey, you should you belong 

562
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,680
with your own kind. 
They'll raise you. 

563
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,120
They'll teach you the ways of 
skin changing. 

564
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,240
And that's what they did. 
And it, you know, obviously not 

565
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,200
the best thing for a child, but 
it's it, it worked out OK for 

566
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,400
him in terms of that his master 
didn't work out very well for 

567
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:08,920
his master because he ended up 
killing him too. 

568
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,080
But he did learn ostensibly his 
family wanted him to learn about

569
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,360
being a skin changer. 
And he got that he was 

570
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:19,280
introduced to his kind and learn
things about them that he was a 

571
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,080
gathering of skin changers, 
right? 

572
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,640
That was a thing that that he 
went to. 

573
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,320
And at that gathering, he 
realized he was already the most

574
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,120
powerful there. 
Partly because they have a sense

575
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,440
of each other and their powers. 
It's like they it's something 

576
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,360
that comes with being a skin 
changer is the sense of other 

577
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:34,800
skin changers and how powerful 
they are. 

578
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,400
So other than him, the Stark, 
compare him to the Starks. 

579
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,880
The Starks weren't kicked out of
their family. 

580
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,720
They weren't given to skin 
changers to be raised among 

581
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,320
their own kind. 
And for one, I mean, that 

582
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,480
wouldn't have happened even if 
Ned and Kat did know that about 

583
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,360
them. 
But they never did. 

584
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,520
Of course. 
That was never information that 

585
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,680
they learned before their 
deaths. 

586
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,040
Although maybe Kat will learn 
that in her undead state and 

587
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,360
that could be very interesting. 
But that's outside the scope of 

588
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,200
this episode. 
So each Stark individually has 

589
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,400
been learning about who they are
and having a different 

590
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,560
experience on that skin changer 
journey, whether it's dreams, 

591
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,920
whether it's experiences with 
animals, whether it's what 

592
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,520
brands going through, which is 
far beyond all that. 

593
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,760
Compare that to Vermeer. 
Vermeer had the training, but he

594
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,520
didn't have like the highborn 
upbringing. 

595
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,920
He didn't get to, you know, stay
around his family. 

596
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,480
So they were the Starks have 
kind of been effectively 

597
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,160
orphaned, right? 
They've been kicked out of their

598
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,400
home through violence. 
And you know, there's a way, 

599
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,240
there's a path back for them. 
But this is something that is 

600
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,240
really shaping their lives. 
And now, of course, except 

601
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,880
Brandon, he has the best teacher
of all, best maybe in quotes, 

602
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,680
but certainly the most 
knowledgeable. 

603
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,320
And he has the knowledge base of
everyone to draw on, like every 

604
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,280
past green seer is part of this,
like is part of the Lesson plan 

605
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,400
here for him. 
So it's like it's night and day 

606
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,480
what Bran has at his disposal, 
his fingertips versus what his 

607
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,320
siblings have. 
So let's look at some other 

608
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:02,600
ancient connections here though,
too. 

609
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,320
This doesn't just it's not just 
about what the world of Ice and 

610
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,240
Fire says. 
We've got some other stuff here 

611
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,120
also from the World of Ice and 
Fire, from a specific figure 

612
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,640
here called the Warg King quote.
Chronicles found in the archives

613
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,560
of the Night's Watch at the 
Night Fort before it was 

614
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,680
abandoned, speak of the war for 
Sea Dragon Point, wherein the 

615
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Starks brought down the Warg 
King and his inhuman allies, the

616
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,080
Children of the Forest. 
When the Warg King's last 

617
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,240
redoubt fell, his sons were put 
to the sword along with his 

618
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,720
beasts and green seers, whilst 
his daughters were taken as 

619
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,280
prizes by their conquerors. 
Now if it weren't for George 

620
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,440
telling us that it's not a 
genetic thing, many theorized 

621
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,200
that this is where the skin 
changer genes came from in the 

622
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,480
Starks in the 1st place. 
They took these daughters as 

623
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,560
prizes and inherited those 
genes. 

624
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:01,880
But of course that's not the 
case. 

625
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,080
It was a reasonable guess though
so. 

626
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:12,160
But this is super curious. 
He had green Sears and all this 

627
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,720
other stuff. 
His children of the force were 

628
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,080
his allies. 
This is fascinating and and kind

629
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,400
of hard to rectify but 
nonetheless really interesting 

630
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,920
to think about. 
It could be some genetic element

631
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,520
that isn't passed down. 
It could be like an initial 

632
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,400
mutation, but that would still 
qualify as genetic, I think. 

633
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,200
I don't know. 
It's, it's the the definition of

634
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,920
what is and isn't genetic is a 
little tricky here. 

635
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,360
And it it's also falls apart 
because what George considers 

636
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,720
genetic isn't necessarily the 
the hard science. 

637
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,040
My counterpoint to you is that 
that quote does not indicate 

638
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,760
there's no genetic quality, but 
that he doesn't care to get into

639
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,840
the genetics. 
The genetics are not really that

640
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,400
significant, but I don't think 
it precludes there being any 

641
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,040
genetic quality to this. 
He doesn't say it's not there. 

642
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,120
He just doesn't want to go. 
I mean that yeah, I can see your

643
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,080
point there. 
He's he's not explicitly saying 

644
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,280
it's definitely not genetic. 
He just doesn't want to do that.

645
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,240
He. 
Just doesn't want to get down 

646
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,520
into the weeds with it. 
But I think there is a a streak 

647
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,200
of genetics in it. 
But it's just that's not what 

648
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,720
the difference was. 
The genetics isn't why these 

649
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,760
Starks right now have these 
great abilities. 

650
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,880
Yeah, yeah. 
The, the key seems to be 

651
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,200
training, having someone to draw
that out of you develop it. 

652
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,080
It's a like a, an if you have a 
talent for something and never 

653
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,120
use it your whole life, then 
yeah, that's going to atrophy. 

654
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,720
It's going to effectively be 
like, you never had that talent 

655
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,560
if you don't use it. 
So yeah, there's probably, we 

656
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,560
could probably guess that there 
have been a lot of Starks and 

657
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,840
maybe other people in the North 
too, probably other people in 

658
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,520
the North too that have that 
were born with the talent. 

659
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,560
Never had it developed, never 
even questioned it, partly 

660
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,600
because of the cultural bias. 
I never would have wanted to if 

661
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,680
it was encouraged, if it was 
treasured, if it was considered 

662
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,920
a gift from the gods, a positive
thing, then everyone would be 

663
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,080
hopeful that their kids would be
born with it and they'd be 

664
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,960
looking for it. 
They'd be hoping for it rather 

665
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,760
than sort of, we don't talk 
about that, you know, that kind 

666
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,640
of aspect. 
So the cultural belief is 

667
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,080
massive here. 
And whether it's accepted or 

668
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,840
not, and it's not in the South 
and in the North beyond the 

669
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:15,920
wall, it's accepted but not 
loved, right? 

670
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,360
It isn't shunned, but it's not 
exactly something they want to 

671
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,280
be a big part of. 
It's not something like, hey, 

672
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,520
let's invite the skin changers 
to our parties, you know, 

673
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,600
doesn't really work that way. 
So but they're not assumed to be

674
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:31,920
evil. 
That's still very important in 

675
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,360
the South, meaning the South of 
the wall, it's like all skin. 

676
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,160
They're evil, that's bad, 
they're bad things. 

677
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,200
They're they're corrupt and 
wrong and should be destroyed. 

678
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,840
Definitely not like that beyond 
the wall. 

679
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,880
Now Varamir is a model of this 
type of monarch, this character 

680
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,000
who is able to conquer through 
power. 

681
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,160
And maybe because they have all,
maybe this particular ward king 

682
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,480
was so strong and mighty and 
could control lots of animals at

683
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,800
once. 
It says beasts plural. 

684
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,960
He had beasts. 
Green seers, plural. 

685
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,720
This blows my mind. 
It it, it would make sense that 

686
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,480
he was a powerful monarch. 
So again, a micro version of 

687
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,880
this is is Varimir right? 
Varimir ruled some villages 

688
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,120
through fear and terror. 
Here's the quote. 

689
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,199
Before Mance Varimir, sick Skins
had been a Lord of sorts. 

690
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,080
He lived alone in a hall of Moss
and mud and hewn logs that had 

691
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,520
once been haggons attended by 
his beasts. 

692
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:32,400
A dozen villages did him homage 
in bread and salt and cider, 

693
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,880
offering him fruit from their 
orchards and vegetables from 

694
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,719
their gardens. 
His meat he got himself. 

695
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:43,600
Whenever he desired a woman, he 
sent his shadow cat to stalk 

696
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,400
her, and whatever girl he'd cast
his eye upon would follow meekly

697
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,679
to his bed. 
And this is where we learn as 

698
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:55,080
well that he didn't have any 
kids that are skin changers, 

699
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,880
which somewhat confirms what 
George said or at least confirms

700
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,000
a blood rape and said that only 
one in 1000 is born with that 

701
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,440
way. 
He didn't have 1000 children. 

702
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,080
So the odds weren't exactly on 
his side. 

703
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,000
And maybe he figured it out at 
some level. 

704
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,200
He's like, man, maybe this isn't
maybe that's not how it works 

705
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,240
because my parents didn't have 
it and none of my kids do. 

706
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:15,760
So maybe this is just not not 
where it comes from. 

707
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,160
But what what would he think if 
not that? 

708
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,520
What is it? 
You know, it's pretty hard to be

709
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,160
an atheist in a world where 
supernatural powers are real. 

710
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,680
Not just real, but you have them
yourself. 

711
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:27,960
Like, I have powers. 
Yeah. 

712
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,120
But surely the gods aren't real.
It's just That would be weird. 

713
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,440
So you must think that's where 
they come from. 

714
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,040
Whether it's passes through 
parents or not, either way, it's

715
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,440
comes from the gods. 
That's the only thing they could

716
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,000
probably be sure about in their 
worldview. 

717
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,080
So that's really. 
That's really fascinating. 

718
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,240
Like how does a war king 
enforces rule sort of like this 

719
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,920
where the beasts sort of stalk 
around and act as 

720
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,880
representatives. 
It's pretty powerful. 

721
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,680
You have these intimidating 
representatives of yourself, 

722
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,520
these animal avatars that keeps 
you safe, right? 

723
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,320
It's it intimidates other 
people, but you're not the one 

724
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,760
going out into the world and 
risking your your life by going 

725
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,120
to village to village. 
You could be ambushed or shot 

726
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,320
with an arrow, but no, you're 
sitting home in your castle or 

727
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,280
your cave or your hall, whatever
it is, issuing orders and 

728
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,200
sending your animals out to do 
things and keeping yourself safe

729
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,480
and warm at home. 
So that's, that's pretty 

730
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,440
powerful, right? 
Like that's something that a lot

731
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,480
of Northerners would envy. 
Like I don't even have to go 

732
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,160
outside in the cold. 
You know, I could stay here and 

733
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,560
in the warmth and just have 
people bring me stuff. 

734
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,040
So that's really, really 
interesting. 

735
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,480
And you can see how someone with
a lot more power than Verimir or

736
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,040
someone with more time, Verimir 
could have grown in power and 

737
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,240
his control over a dozen 
villages could have been control

738
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:46,640
over 20 or 30 or 40 or something
like that. 

739
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,880
Maybe one day he could have been
king beyond the wall, who knows.

740
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,560
As far as we know though, none 
of the other kings beyond the 

741
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,640
wall were were skin changers. 
But there is this example called

742
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,080
that we're another example from 
the World of Ice and Fire called

743
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,160
the War of the Wolves, which I 
also would like to hear us 

744
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,400
quote. 
Ancient ballads, amongst the 

745
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,160
oldest to be found in the 
archives of the Citadel of Old 

746
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,440
Town, tell us of how one King of
Winter drove the giants from the

747
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:21,560
north whilst another felled the 
skin changer, Gavin Gray Wolf 

748
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,000
and his kin in a savage war of 
the wolves. 

749
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,840
But we have only the word of 
singers that such kings and such

750
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,560
battles ever existed. 
Yeah, it makes you think more 

751
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,600
and more about how what we were 
just talking about, about how a 

752
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,880
skin changer king would deploy 
his powers in an effort to 

753
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,840
maintain power. 
Being in two places at once that

754
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,640
we just talked about are 
multiple places at once with 

755
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,040
your animals is a good example. 
But there would be other things.

756
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,400
And their mirror is a good 
example of what can go wrong of 

757
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,680
a person who's corrupted by 
their own power and just takes 

758
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,840
what they want and just slakes 
his desires. 

759
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,160
It's one of the worst ways that 
this can go. 

760
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,880
And it it backs up the idea that
skin changers are malevolent 

761
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,880
entities, even though it's not 
true. 

762
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:11,920
It it, it certainly makes people
think that way if this is the 

763
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,280
kind of example you're given. 
He's a tyrant. 

764
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,440
Nina calls him basically like a 
local God king. 

765
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,360
Yeah. 
He has supernatural control over

766
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,240
things that no one else does or 
few people do. 

767
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,760
And he uses that to dominate and
to terrify. 

768
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,440
Ruling through fear, definitely 
not ruling through love. 

769
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,360
We talked about the dichotomy. 
There is absolutely 100% fear. 

770
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,800
There is no love whatsoever in 
this style of of control, of 

771
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,720
authority. 
And but there's no reason why 

772
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,640
every ward king has to be awful.
Why, like, why would they all be

773
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,960
bad? 
You know, there's nothing 

774
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:50,040
inherently evil about wolves or 
any of the other animals really.

775
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,360
So now if you're more 
animalistic, a human that has a 

776
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,920
lot of animal traits that maybe 
can't control their appetites, 

777
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,680
their desires, I could see why 
that would be dark, maybe lead 

778
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,560
you astray a bit as a human 
being. 

779
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,520
That's a big factor being a skin
changer. 

780
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,760
Jojen and Mira very much lament 
how much time Brand spends 

781
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,800
inside his wolf that it's 
becoming that he is bending to 

782
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,040
summer's will and summer is not 
bending to his becoming more 

783
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,400
wolf like. 
We have that concern with John 

784
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,640
in his second life. 
So yeah, maybe there is an 

785
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,080
element of this that does lead 
people a bit astray. 

786
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,120
I I still wouldn't go so far as 
to say that skin changing is is 

787
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,480
evil or corrupt. 
But you can see how power, it's 

788
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,160
power. 
Power can corrupt. 

789
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,200
Absolute power can corrupt 
absolutely. 

790
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,120
That's remains true even though 
it's not a Westerosi saying 

791
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,680
it's, it's a human thing and you
give people these powers and 

792
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,560
some of them are going to do 
really bad things with it and, 

793
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,880
and maybe more will do bad than 
good, but but nobody doing good.

794
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,360
I don't, I don't buy that for a 
second. 

795
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,480
Surely there's been some skin 
changers that have done good. 

796
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,560
The records don't reflect that. 
Maybe because they didn't keep 

797
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,440
good records, or maybe the 
cultural bias has gotten so 

798
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,680
strong that all cultural memory 
of good skin changers was wiped 

799
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,600
out by people who had an agenda 
or who just refused to believe 

800
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,520
such a thing could be the case. 
Who knows? 

801
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,560
It all makes sense though, like 
things like this would fit. 

802
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,240
And we saw it with Robb Stark a 
bit. 

803
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:14,960
You know, you wonder what the 
long term would have been like 

804
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,840
with him. 
Like he used Greywind to 

805
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,600
exercise his authority over 
Great John, who was, you know, 

806
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,840
testing him. 
He's like, well, I passed that 

807
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,480
test with flying colors, right? 
But Greywind really helped with 

808
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,720
that. 
And Greywind is huge, literally 

809
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,280
huge. 
But in terms of Rob's ability to

810
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,920
rule and to lead, like people 
were intimidated by that. 

811
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,720
People were like, this, this 
this boy king with this wolf, it

812
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,520
gave him extra gravitas. 
It gave him more authority. 

813
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,640
It it counteracted some of his 
youth. 

814
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,480
It's like, yeah, this kid, they 
don't want to listen to him. 

815
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,960
But this is a kid with a wolf. 
This is a Stark. 

816
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,520
This is a no one's going to call
him a boy in Great John's 

817
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,040
hearing anymore after that 
incident. 

818
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,320
Things like this are why, right?
So we would have wondered what 

819
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,680
in the long term would have 
looked like Robb Stark, a king 

820
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,200
sitting on his throne, dealing 
out justice, administrating his 

821
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,440
Kingdom with Greywind at his 
side. 

822
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:05,760
What would that have looked 
like? 

823
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,040
Greywind, just like a feature of
his court, maybe intimidating 

824
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,400
people, maybe just adding some 
authority here and there, maybe 

825
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,360
doing some of the same things 
these workings would have done, 

826
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,440
but with more goodness, more 
justice behind it. 

827
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,280
Like, oh, here comes everybody 
knows that wolf. 

828
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,760
Everybody recognizes Greywind, 
right? 

829
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,400
There's no, no other animal like
him. 

830
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,160
Even the other direwolf's look 
different, right? 

831
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,560
They're not. 
None of them look like each 

832
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,360
other. 
Here's a relevant phrase from 

833
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,320
Vermeer's Master Hagon quote. 
A man might befriend a wolf, 

834
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,880
even break a wolf, but no man 
could truly tame a wolf. 

835
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,360
Wolves and women wed for life, 
Hagon often said. 

836
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:48,920
You take one, that's a marriage.
The wolf is part of you from 

837
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,280
that day on, and you're part of 
him. 

838
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:54,560
Both of you will change. 
That's a big deal. 

839
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,600
Both of you will change. 
You take one. 

840
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,680
That's his. 
His marriage analogy is kind of 

841
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,960
weird because I don't think 
Hagon was likely to have ever 

842
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,480
been married. 
So what does he know about being

843
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,360
married? 
But it still tracks. 

844
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,400
Like you can still get what he's
get his point, right? 

845
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,880
You, you live that closely with 
somebody every day, day-to-day. 

846
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,200
You want to, you know, you take 
on their burdens, their cares, 

847
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,120
their loves. 
It's part of what you do in a 

848
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,000
marriage, right? 
Or any, any good relationship or

849
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,120
any committed relationship. 
He's likening it to the skin 

850
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,520
changer bond. 
He's like, there's a lot of 

851
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,280
these things that are really 
similar. 

852
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,360
It's a lifelong bond. 
You're going to be permanently 

853
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,720
changed by it. 
And so will they, Right. 

854
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,960
And that's really interesting 
because, yeah, we know that 

855
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,880
about humans. 
But what happens? 

856
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,480
We know that about your pets. 
Like, do I become more like my 

857
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,320
cats? 
Not really. 

858
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,360
I don't think they become more 
like me. 

859
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:50,080
We, we pick up on each other's 
habits, on each other's desires 

860
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,040
and what scares us maybe, but 
we're not like they're not 

861
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,240
picking up my personality. 
Like the cats aren't going to 

862
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,440
become interested in Game of 
Thrones because I love it. 

863
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:04,400
I don't care about playing with 
leaves or whatever I don't like.

864
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,760
It's not going to make me love 
catnip. 

865
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:09,200
It could for in this case, for 
skin change, like a human could 

866
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,840
learn to start loving catnip 
because they sense that their 

867
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,840
animal loves that and they vibe 
with those feelings and it 

868
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,320
becomes part of their feelings. 
And John, John at one point 

869
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,360
realizes he's hungry for blood. 
He's like, wait, what the Hell's

870
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,040
going on? 
He's like, oh, ghost, Ghost is 

871
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,160
coming And he, he had been 
separated from ghost and just, 

872
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,520
he's thinking about it. 
Ghost gets in range and he slips

873
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,680
into his skin kind of 
subconsciously and he realizes 

874
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,400
he's feeling ghosts hunger and 
and wolf like qualities, which 

875
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,880
he did that by accident. 
He doesn't have the training to 

876
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:42,760
reconcile that or to be like, is
this bad, is this good? 

877
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,600
Should I hold back or should I 
not engage in this too much? 

878
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,960
Like what Jojen saying to Bran? 
Don't do that. 

879
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,560
Don't stay in your wolf too 
long. 

880
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,560
None of the other Starks have 
that training. 

881
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,880
No one's told them about that. 
No one's told them about the 

882
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,280
dangers of these powers. 
I'm pretty sure that we can 

883
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,600
assume Vermeer believed all 
this. 

884
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,760
He remembers Hagon telling him 
this and it if he had 

885
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,800
experiences that differed from 
what Hagon told him, he would 

886
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,920
probably think about that. 
He'd be like, yeah, that turned 

887
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,160
out Hagon was wrong about that. 
No, Vermeer is the most powerful

888
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,240
skin changer we know of other 
than Bran. 

889
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:20,640
He might. 
I don't know if he was more. 

890
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,040
I don't know if he's more 
powerful than Aria. 

891
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,120
That's that's up in the air, I 
suppose. 

892
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,400
But Vermeer, certainly in terms 
of people who've been trained, 

893
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,600
super powerful. 
And it happened to him too. 

894
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:36,800
He became like some of the 
animals he's controlling, 

895
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,920
including Orrell, the eagle. 
He when he took over Orrell, he 

896
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,880
discovered the hatred residing 
in the eagle, the hatred pointed

897
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,280
at Jon Snow. 
Varamir hates John in part 

898
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,320
because Orrell hates John. 
It's part of who he is. 

899
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,080
It's so it's not just the skin 
changer bond, It's the skin 

900
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,840
changer bond to other skin 
changers who are in the animals 

901
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,600
that you may control. 
Now. 

902
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:04,600
It's it's layers here, right? 
So could John be an example of 

903
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,280
this in the long term? 
Could John be sort of like a 

904
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:14,080
Varamir or a a proto varamir? 
Not evil, not sending his shadow

905
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,760
cat to steal women, not that 
kind of character. 

906
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,560
I don't really don't see that 
coming for John. 

907
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,320
Even post death, even post 
Second Life, I don't think it's 

908
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,480
going to make him that kind of 
person, but a war leader and a 

909
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,720
skin changer at the same time. 
In other words, maybe not like a

910
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:32,080
Varamir, but maybe more like a 
Gavin Gray wolf for a warg king 

911
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,000
kind of guy. 
You know, maybe a John might be 

912
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,760
king in the north for a time, 
for a stretch, for maybe, maybe 

913
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,640
for quite a while. 
So a skin changer king with a 

914
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,080
wolf at his side, but other 
abilities dead. 

915
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,960
What is death going to do to his
abilities? 

916
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,760
This could be a vehicle for 
George to sort of sideways 

917
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,360
explain how the others work. 
The other are the others skin 

918
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,280
changing into dead bodies. 
Will John be able to do that 

919
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,840
after he's dead? 
Probably not. 

920
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,840
But it's an interesting idea, 
isn't it? 

921
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,280
So imagine John going into 
battle with the bravery of an 

922
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,200
undead being someone who's like,
yeah, I can't, it's not so easy 

923
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,520
to kill me with his wolf, with 
whatever other powers he 

924
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,480
manifests, possibly with higher 
rank on top of that. 

925
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,160
So that is, that is a lot. 
That is a lot of things, John. 

926
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,800
His list of titles and abilities
is is very much Daenerys like, 

927
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,960
so very long. 
Brad, on the other hand, could 

928
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,960
be a bit like Varamir in that he
could control lots of animals at

929
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,440
once. 
He could control more than 

930
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,520
Varamir, presumably in the long 
run, if not already, which 

931
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,920
enables to him to be in more 
than one place at once. 

932
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,880
Now, what does that do to your 
personality? 

933
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,960
I can see through two pairs of 
eyes, two pair of eagle eyes or 

934
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,640
Raven eyes over here, while 
simultaneously seeing through a 

935
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,560
pair of cat eyes over here, a 
pair of wolf eyes over here. 

936
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,600
How many different realities are
you perceiving at once? 

937
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,040
That's going to change your 
brain. 

938
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,880
I told the Shaya, once we're 
playing this game, you know, we 

939
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,000
played this game, we played the 
game Beat Saber a lot, right? 

940
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,560
It's really fun. 
It's good activity. 

941
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,240
First time I ever played that 
game in 360 mode my eye like the

942
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,280
my eyes had and brain had never 
seen such a thing before and it 

943
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,280
like I I swear it activated 
parts of my brain that had never

944
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:14,680
been used. 
It was very exhilarating. 

945
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,600
This only existed in 2D 
scenarios prior to that. 

946
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,280
That's right, I exist in 
flatland only. 

947
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Yeah, that's what I was about to
say. 

948
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,480
I was like it was a flatland 
type. 

949
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,800
I discovered the third dimension
only recently. 

950
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,240
Y'all, I exist purely on on 
pieces of paper and books. 

951
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,040
Flat things only. 
That's really fascinating to 

952
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,160
think of Bran in the long term, 
either leading lots of animals 

953
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,520
into battle or just in general 
as representatives himself. 

954
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,280
I don't suppose he can be a war 
leader like John, but but he 

955
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,680
could be. 
Maybe he takes it. 

956
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,040
Maybe he goes Master Blaster 
with Hodor, riding into battle 

957
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,800
on Hodor's shoulders, or just 
controlling Hodor swinging a 

958
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,480
sword with Hodor's. 
Say it also makes me think of 

959
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,920
there's a web serial I really 
like called a Worm. 

960
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,280
It's about like superheroes, but
one of the characters controls 

961
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,400
like bugs, insects, swarms. 
And as you can imagine, it's 

962
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,120
controlling like that many 
creatures. 

963
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:13,160
That speaks to like a, a crazy 
level of like processing power, 

964
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:14,800
right? 
And so they go in, they really 

965
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,680
dig into like how that's kind of
a superpower in a lot of ways is

966
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,120
being able to multitask. 
And it's also fascinating when 

967
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,520
you consider that like bugs 
especially have like a very 

968
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,880
hierarchical, like there's like 
the brains, there's like, well, 

969
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,080
how does this work? 
Like, do they, which are you 

970
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,080
controlling all of them or are 
you just controlling the brain 

971
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,880
or like, how does that work? 
Yeah, it's really, really 

972
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,720
interesting. 
Like the, the, the, the 

973
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,960
differences in social structure 
and hierarchical things within a

974
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,960
species. 
So in the 1st place, though, 

975
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,360
it's a bit curious that a skin 
changer king could even exist in

976
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,760
the 1st place, right, Given that
there's a massive prejudice 

977
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,600
against skin changers even in 
the North. 

978
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,800
Like how did a skin changer 
become king if everybody hates 

979
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,040
skin changers? 
Well, we're talking long ago. 

980
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,120
Maybe it wasn't quite like that.
Maybe they didn't. 

981
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,600
Maybe they weren't shunned back 
in the day. 

982
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,880
Maybe it was the end alls coming
along that that really pushed 

983
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,520
that. 
Maybe in the time of only first 

984
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,760
men, the view of skin changers 
was a little more muted, a 

985
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,080
little more like be on the wall 
where they're feared and 

986
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,720
respected, but not like haunted 
down and and hated, right. 

987
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,680
So a war king could have also 
just dominated, though, right? 

988
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,800
A Gavin Gray wolf could have 
just conquered and ruled and 

989
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,920
than something of a low level 
tyrant. 

990
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,840
But maybe it was something more.
Maybe it was they actually 

991
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,760
offered something to people that
made them want to join their 

992
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,120
Kingdom. 
Like hey, I want to live with 

993
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,360
this guy as my king. 
I like him, he's a good ruler. 

994
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:38,200
But the problem with a warg 
Kingdom is, well, you can't 

995
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,240
count on having an heir that's a
warg. 

996
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:41,880
You can't even remotely count on
it. 

997
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,440
It's not even like a a decent 
chance it's it's one in 1000 if 

998
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,560
not or something like that. 
So it's just not a very feasible

999
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,960
thing. 
It's like the Dithraki or a 

1000
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,720
pirate Kingdom or a king beyond 
the wall situation. 

1001
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,160
They're not going to follow 
Mance's son because he's Mance's

1002
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:00,440
son. 
They're going to follow the next

1003
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,040
leader who's strong enough to 
unite them and continue that. 

1004
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,760
Just like the Dithraki, just 
like a pirate. 

1005
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,840
Pirates don't pass their 
kingdoms to heirs. 

1006
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,840
They either the Kingdom breaks 
apart or someone strong comes 

1007
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,960
forward and and keeps it going 
through that strength. 

1008
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,240
So family ties don't matter in 
those cases very much. 

1009
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,520
And since ward kings can't pass 
their skin changer talents down,

1010
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,040
well the the ward King's air 
would not be a warg. 

1011
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,960
So it wouldn't be a warg Kingdom
anymore. 

1012
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,600
It would just be a regular 
Kingdom. 

1013
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,040
Well, what happens to the green 
seers and beasts that were in 

1014
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,640
control of that king? 
When that king passes? 

1015
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,800
What what happens to all those 
beings? 

1016
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,520
Like do they just run away? 
I mean, that's that is kind of 

1017
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,120
what happened with Vera Mira 
when he lost control and died, 

1018
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,040
all those animals just kind of 
ran off. 

1019
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,040
Do you think there's any chance 
that the War King was a king of 

1020
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,200
wargs? 
Like he was a warg and he had 

1021
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,360
his own like contingent of wargs
and peoples flocked to him? 

1022
00:50:57,720 --> 00:50:59,760
Yeah, like he had an army of 
war. 

1023
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:01,440
So I just want to throw that out
there. 

1024
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:02,720
I hadn't considered that. 
I like it. 

1025
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:04,840
It's a good idea. 
I mean, like he was like a guy 

1026
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,320
that that said, hey, you can 
live under my Kingdom and we 

1027
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,280
won't persecute you. 
Or yeah, in fact, I'll recruit 

1028
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:12,920
you and and make use of you in 
my armies. 

1029
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:14,440
Interesting. 
That's cool. 

1030
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:15,840
That's a cool idea. 
I like that. 

1031
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,800
So again, I come back to the 
idea that we're looking at we're

1032
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,600
looking through a cultural lens 
that's thousands of years old. 

1033
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,560
So what it's like today versus 
what it was back then, who 

1034
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,160
knows? 
But still this problem of of 

1035
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,320
airs and the fact that you can't
pass down skin changing is not 

1036
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,280
reliably anyway is a big problem
for a war Kingdom. 

1037
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:32,400
But I like I like a Shaya's 
idea. 

1038
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,840
Maybe it's something out. 
Maybe the model isn't quite the 

1039
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,160
way I imagined it. 
But we also have cases like Bran

1040
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,160
or John where if if John is 
you're going to be a king in the

1041
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,760
North, well, it's going to be in
spite of people's belief about 

1042
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,240
him being a war. 
They're going to be like, OK, 

1043
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:47,040
well, maybe we don't like that 
he's a skin changer. 

1044
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,960
But this is Jon Snow. 
This is the man that defended 

1045
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,640
the Wall. 
This is the man that was Lord 

1046
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,440
Commander. 
This is his prior reputation 

1047
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,080
overshadows any sort of 
prejudice about being a skin 

1048
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,560
changer. 
People don't hate skin changers 

1049
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,800
that much that they would just 
ignore all of the rest of John's

1050
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,520
body of work. 
And a similar thing like Bran, 

1051
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,400
where he's a Stark, he's a good 
kid. 

1052
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,040
He's Ned Stark's boy. 
That carries a lot of weight, 

1053
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,200
too. 
Yeah, maybe being a skin changer

1054
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,440
is a negative in some people's 
eyes, but it's definitely not 

1055
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:17,760
just, well, that's the end of 
it. 

1056
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:18,960
People are like, well, he's a 
skin changer. 

1057
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,720
I, I don't, I have nothing to do
with him. 

1058
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,160
I don't think it's that severe 
when you have a Stark, a son of 

1059
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,760
Ned, you know that I think 
people are going to care about 

1060
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,160
that too. 
Like, well, yeah, he's a skin 

1061
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,520
changer, but he's Bran Stark, 
He's Brandon Stark. 

1062
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,400
I mean, that matters, right? 
So, so it's not just as simple 

1063
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,120
as reducing it to just this 
bias. 

1064
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,000
The the you have to keep in mind
the things that are pluses as 

1065
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,080
well. 
It's also fun to think about the

1066
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,240
the rumors and how Rob was 
accused of being a skin changer 

1067
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,120
and all these stories just 
because he has a dire role. 

1068
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,960
It's an exaggerated accusation, 
but it's actually not that far 

1069
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:57,480
off. 
I mean, it's they're on the 

1070
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,200
right track. 
Yeah, Rob didn't turn into a 

1071
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:04,200
direwolf himself and eat a bunch
of frays, but you know, it's in 

1072
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,440
the ballpark. 
He may have slipped into Grey 

1073
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,000
Wind and run around in the 
battle and and killed a few 

1074
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,720
people and experienced that. 
He may have sniffed out the goat

1075
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:16,080
track to get by the Golden Tooth
and things like that. 

1076
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,040
He may have, he may have had 
some awareness of what was 

1077
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,680
happening. 
We never got Rob POV's 

1078
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,120
obviously, so we don't know what
he perceived it as. 

1079
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,000
But we have the other Starks's 
model. 

1080
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,240
We have John kind of like what's
going on with me with Bran 

1081
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:31,960
resisting it with Arya, very 
stubborn, kind of accepting 

1082
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,160
parts of it without going all 
the way and naming what it is or

1083
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,800
something like Santa who just we
just aren't sure. 

1084
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,920
Same with Ricken and Rob. 
So here's a very distinct 

1085
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,920
example of of how it comes up. 
This is Bran being confronted by

1086
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,360
Jojen about what he is and his 
reaction is he's he doesn't like

1087
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,840
it quote. 
Warg said Jojen Reed. 

1088
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,040
Bren looked at him. 
What? 

1089
00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:01,000
Warg, shape changer, beastling. 
That is what they will call you 

1090
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,080
if they should ever hear of your
wolf dreams. 

1091
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:07,960
The names made him afraid again.
Who will call me? 

1092
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,480
Your own folk in fear, some will
hate you if they know what you 

1093
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,400
are. 
Some will even try to kill you. 

1094
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,520
Old Nan told scary stories of 
beastlings and shape changers. 

1095
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,720
Sometimes in the stories, they 
were always evil. 

1096
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,160
There you go that last line. 
The cultural belief, the 

1097
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,560
stories, they were always evil. 
Even Old Nan tells these 

1098
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,480
stories, which implies they've 
been told for a very long time. 

1099
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,240
She learned them from somebody. 
That person learned them from 

1100
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,240
somebody. 
All that all that, all that. 

1101
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,760
Now there mere is evil. 
So here you go like that one 

1102
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,680
tracks. 
But like Orrell, Orrell might 

1103
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,320
he's he comes off as an 
antagonist, but like John killed

1104
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,160
him and ORL didn't do anything 
to John. 

1105
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,080
Just be a wild like be a free 
folk and be a scout that 

1106
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,160
happened to be, you know, in his
way. 

1107
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,520
So I don't think we can fall to 
ORL for hating John. 

1108
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,600
I don't think we can fault him 
for even hating the nights watch

1109
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,800
if he's if he's done some 
raiding and and raping and 

1110
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,600
reaving that sort of thing. 
OK, that's bad. 

1111
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,760
But I can't hate ORL for hating 
John, right? 

1112
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,200
That seems just human right? 
And I don't know what evil he 

1113
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,040
did while alive. 
Maybe he wasn't even much of A 

1114
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,640
Raider. 
I think the show portrayed him 

1115
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:21,720
that way. 
But that's the show. 

1116
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:25,440
Don't don't take that for for 
the truth in the books here and 

1117
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:31,280
oral was accepted by his group. 
He was in a small gang for lack 

1118
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,120
of a better word, group, sub 
tribe. 

1119
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,960
A grit was with him and that 
other guy that they were with. 

1120
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,320
They seemed to be cool with him.
No one seemed to have any issues

1121
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,360
with that. 
In fact, why wouldn't they? 

1122
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:43,560
They're scouting and they're 
Raiders. 

1123
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,000
They got an Eagle on their side,
don't you? 

1124
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,040
That seems very valuable. 
Like, why would we shun that? 

1125
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,760
This guy is like an amazing 
valuable scout to us. 

1126
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:55,200
But for Bran, a child Jojen, who
he sees as an authority figure, 

1127
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,040
is telling him some very heavy 
stuff, saying your own people 

1128
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,080
will want to kill you. 
What a thing for a 7 year old to

1129
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,320
hear. 
Where did Jojen learn all this? 

1130
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:04,840
Jojen isn't some man of the 
world. 

1131
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,280
He's lived his whole life in the
neck. 

1132
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,560
He most certainly learned this 
from his family. 

1133
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,800
His his extended family, his 
father, his mother. 

1134
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,600
So it's probably true, right? 
I'm not saying he's making it 

1135
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,360
up, but it's interesting to 
think about where he got his 

1136
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,480
information. 
It seems to be just a pervasive 

1137
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,320
belief in the North, even 
perhaps even more so in the 

1138
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,080
South, maybe in the South 
farther S meaning they don't 

1139
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,120
even think about it as much. 
You know, like the word skin 

1140
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,720
changer probably doesn't come up
very often. 

1141
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,600
So yeah. 
And in or L like, put yourself 

1142
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,520
in his place. 
He doesn't want to be shunned. 

1143
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,320
Very few people want to be 
shunned. 

1144
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:37,640
Very few people want to be 
isolated. 

1145
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,600
Most people don't choose the 
hermit life. 

1146
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,280
They would rather be accepted by
society. 

1147
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,040
They'd rather find a place 
within whatever culture they 

1148
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,680
exist in. 
And so he's or L's probably very

1149
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,920
happy to exchange his skills, 
his scouting abilities, his 

1150
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,200
talents in exchange for a place 
at the fire acceptance among his

1151
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,320
fellow humans like, well, they 
don't shun me, even though I'm 

1152
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,680
something else, you know, So 
that's a big deal, right? 

1153
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,400
So that's, that explains a lot 
about why skin changes are 

1154
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,720
treated the way they are, why 
they would find more of a home 

1155
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:10,240
in the North because it's the 
one place that doesn't hunt them

1156
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:13,280
down and kill them. 
Even if Jojen's exaggerating a 

1157
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,280
little bit, which is possible, 
it's possible. 

1158
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,480
It's a bit it's it can't be 
entirely made-up. 

1159
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,440
I don't think it's just make 
pulling that out of nowhere. 

1160
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,640
So again, it comes back to Bran 
is resisting this. 

1161
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,240
He's resisting his power. 
He's resisting admitting what he

1162
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,880
is, which in turn limits and 
inhibits his ability to use 

1163
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,560
those powers. 
You know, Brad overcomes this 

1164
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,520
later. 
He accepts what he is. 

1165
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,480
He's got a lot of evidence. 
He's got a lot of burden placed 

1166
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:39,720
on him. 
He sees a lot of stuff. 

1167
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,680
He's got the green series, he's 
got the children. 

1168
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,920
So there's a lot of people 
coaching him, telling him, 

1169
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,320
teaching him. 
But at this point, when it's new

1170
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,080
to him, it's it's such a shock. 
It's just a blast of cold water.

1171
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,520
It's such an unpleasant thing. 
Anyway, let's start to get into 

1172
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,400
specific Starks. 
That's a lot about Bran. 

1173
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,560
We'll come back to Bran near the
end, but let's talk about the 

1174
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,800
specific Starks here. 
Why don't we hear about other 

1175
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,320
Starks being skin changers prior
to this current generation? 

1176
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,320
That's a peculiarity, isn't it? 
Maybe it's just that they had 

1177
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:09,560
the talent and it was never 
developed. 

1178
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,080
Entirely possible. 
I think the picture we painted 

1179
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,760
so far absolutely supports that 
conclusion, that many Starks 

1180
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,920
were born with the talent but 
never had any reason to develop.

1181
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:24,080
Never knew they had the ability.
Never wanted to because it would

1182
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:25,640
they they don't want to have 
that ability. 

1183
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:26,960
They don't want people to find 
that out. 

1184
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,680
It would be like, I don't want 
anyone to know about this. 

1185
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:30,960
I don't want to have this 
ability. 

1186
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,560
So I think that's it. 
Like maybe like a lot of senses.

1187
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,960
Maybe, you know, like people who
have the ability but have maybe 

1188
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,440
have don't really know they have
it. 

1189
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,640
Or the thing of share brought up
earlier about not having the 

1190
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,160
thing that brings you along like
an important animal connection. 

1191
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,800
And we are introduced to this 
concept very early on you. 

1192
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,120
Know, can I just say I can I, I 
think of like a someone who has 

1193
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,920
a, a natural musical talent, 
like maybe like you notice like 

1194
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,360
they're always on beat when they
hum, but they never have an 

1195
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,240
instrument put in front of them 
and they never learn they have 

1196
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:01,800
that talent, right? 
Yeah, it happens. 

1197
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:03,320
All the time. 
Yeah, someone has a naturally 

1198
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,360
good voice, but like there's a 
lot you can learn about how to 

1199
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,520
sing, how to project your voice,
how to be louder, how to not 

1200
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,040
hurt yourself, how to yeah, I 
like singing lessons for a good 

1201
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,240
person who's good at singing is 
maybe the most simple because 

1202
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,120
your voice is already there. 
But for an instrument, Yeah, 

1203
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,440
you're at you make a great 
point. 

1204
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,120
The catalyst I'm referring to 
that I share brought up earlier 

1205
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,960
is is a is a direwolf. 
A direwolf might be a great way 

1206
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,720
to draw the skin changing 
ability out of a stark youth. 

1207
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:32,360
But we were told in chapter 1 
that well quote. 

1208
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,200
It was bigger than his pony, 
twice the size of the largest 

1209
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,480
hound in his father's kennel. 
It's no freak, John said calmly.

1210
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,720
That's a direwolf. 
They grow larger than the other 

1211
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,640
kind, Theon Greyjoy said. 
There's not been a direwolf 

1212
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,280
sighted South of the wall in 200
years. 

1213
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:56,360
I see one now, John replied. 
Presumably Theon is not some 

1214
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,400
independent expert on 
direwolves. 

1215
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,400
He probably learned that from 
Maester Lewin. 

1216
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,200
But no one like, challenged his 
number. 

1217
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:04,760
No one's like, Nah, it's been 
less than that. 

1218
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,120
Like Ned was there. 
Jory Cassell was there, there's 

1219
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,440
people with some knowledge, 
people older than Theon around 

1220
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,000
there. 
So if he had been wrong or 

1221
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,560
speaking out of turn, they 
probably would have corrected 

1222
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:15,400
him. 
So it's probably true. 

1223
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,320
It's probably about right 
because we have no reason to 

1224
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:21,360
doubt it. 
So a couple 100 years. 

1225
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,560
So there's that's a couple 100 
years where no direwolf 

1226
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,960
triggered any Stark's latent 
skin changer skill. 

1227
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,640
If assuming that's a, a method, 
I'm not, I wouldn't guess that's

1228
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:32,880
the only method, but it's 
probably a method to draw that 

1229
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:39,920
ability out to, as a catalyst to
show the, to reveal to the user 

1230
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,880
to the, to the person holding 
the ability that they have it. 

1231
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,440
And again, I want to point out 
and remind you all that John is 

1232
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,000
not the son of Ned. 
So he has the ability without 

1233
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,200
actually being in the same 
sibling group as the others 

1234
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,080
here. 
So does that make Ned curious? 

1235
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,440
I wonder if Ned thought about 
that. 

1236
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,760
He's the only one who might have
realized it, because he's the 

1237
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,400
only one who knows who John's 
parents really are in that group

1238
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,040
or almost anywhere. 
It was the appeal to the Old 

1239
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,480
Gods by John that got Ned to 
accept the direwolf. 

1240
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:08,720
He's like, no, we can't take 
them. 

1241
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,480
They should just be left to die.
And. 

1242
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:14,720
And John goes, my Lord, 
remember, He says, my Lord, he 

1243
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,120
doesn't say father. 
He doesn't say yeah, he says my 

1244
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,760
Lord or Lord Stark, isn't it? 
You know, the direwolf is a 

1245
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,320
sigil of your house. 
Look how many? 

1246
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:23,920
There's 5. 
Exactly. 

1247
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,960
They're the right gender. 
Like the Old God sent them. 

1248
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:31,200
Ned's like too much of A, he's 
too much of A believer to just 

1249
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,160
ignore that point. 
He's like, hmm, that's a good 

1250
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,080
point. 
All right, you all can keep the 

1251
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:37,400
direwolves. 
That's fine. 

1252
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,240
John's appeal worked. 
His appeal to a higher power. 

1253
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,840
Ned was the authority in that 
situation. 

1254
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,720
He's the Lord Stark, Ned. 
And so the only move John had 

1255
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,120
was to appeal to a higher 
authority, something above even 

1256
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,560
Ned, which is the old gods. 
And it worked beautifully, 

1257
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,520
brilliantly, and may have 
actually been John may have been

1258
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,400
more right than he thought. 
Maybe the old gods did send 

1259
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,640
those direwolves to activate 
their abilities. 

1260
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:04,440
So Ned knew though, he's like, 
well, if the old God sent these 

1261
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,040
direwolves for these kids, he 
didn't. 

1262
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,720
One of these isn't my kids, but 
there's still six of them. 

1263
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,840
So that's interesting. 
I wonder what he thought about 

1264
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,760
that. 
And like one of these direwolves

1265
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:18,080
is going to Liana's child did. 
Did that matter to him? 

1266
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,280
Did he notice that? 
It's it's pretty curious. 

1267
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,880
And George pointed out as well, 
outside of the books that the 

1268
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,400
loss of Lady is very important 
for Sansa, very important for 

1269
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,080
her, her lack of development as 
a skin changer. 

1270
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,160
So given he said she has the 
talent and given he said that 

1271
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,840
the loss of Lady is is a big 
deal, what conclusion can we 

1272
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,560
reach other than the direwolf is
a very important tool slash 

1273
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:49,320
method slash, just way to bring 
the power out of somebody and to

1274
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,200
help them develop their talent. 
It it seems pretty 

1275
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,840
straightforward, like they're a 
guide of sort, a spirit guide of

1276
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,720
sort, just an anchor to their 
abilities. 

1277
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,520
I don't know what word works, 
but it wouldn't happen with just

1278
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,200
random dogs, cats and horses. 
It's not an animal they have as 

1279
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,560
close of a bond with. 
Maybe it would have happened for

1280
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,720
Bran in the long term with his 
horse Dancer, his one solo horse

1281
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,160
that only he can ride because 
it's trained to work a special 

1282
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:21,080
way because of his disability. 
So maybe these things would have

1283
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:22,960
manifested. 
I mean, Bran is just so powerful

1284
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,720
that it's hard to imagine that 
that would have been kept under 

1285
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,680
wraps. 
But maybe maybe Rick and and and

1286
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,880
Rob would have been more like 
Sansa where they just just never

1287
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:32,840
got going. 
Well, like like a Shaya's 

1288
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,560
musical instrument example, Like
they never, no one ever handed 

1289
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:37,280
them an instrument. 
No one ever handed them a 

1290
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,280
direwolf. 
So that never never came up. 

1291
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:46,560
So again, it isn't just Bran who
thinks about old man and the 

1292
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,000
stories of wildling or of, of 
skin changers and how they're 

1293
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:52,720
evil. 
John thinks of that too. 

1294
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:57,160
And I don't think Sansa does, 
but it it probably comes up in 

1295
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,640
their minds, maybe off page 
Ricken and Rob probably thought 

1296
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:00,880
about maybe not Ricken, he's too
young. 

1297
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,440
But Rob probably had to 
summarize some of that. 

1298
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,560
Yes, definitely you have to have
ability, you have to have some 

1299
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:08,160
knowledge, you have to have some
training and you have to have 

1300
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,640
some, some opportunity. 
Something has to come along to 

1301
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,320
to activate that trigger. 
Given the cultural scenario in 

1302
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:18,600
the North beyond the wall, it's 
simpler because they just have a

1303
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,600
method. 
They think, well, well, if you, 

1304
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,520
if your child is displaying skin
changer skills, give them to the

1305
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:26,880
other skin changers, give them 
to the skin changer community 

1306
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,160
that doesn't exist South of the 
wall. 

1307
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,560
There's no adoption program for 
skin changers in the South. 

1308
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,960
So what do they do? 
They just live their lives and 

1309
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:38,880
have hidden talents that never 
get developed. 

1310
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:44,640
So it's not, it isn't it isn't 
also thought of as something 

1311
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,000
that's a matter of the past. 
It's like, you know, this is the

1312
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,240
whole thing that can happen. 
This isn't like, oh, that's a 

1313
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,320
skin changers were a thing from 
centuries ago. 

1314
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,800
No, I think pretty much everyone
still accepts that they're real,

1315
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,720
even if their numbers have 
declined. 

1316
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:00,120
Even the World of Ice and Fire, 
which as you recall in world 

1317
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,840
isn't a very old book. 
It's written, you know, within 

1318
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,960
the last. 
It was started within the last 

1319
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:10,000
20 years. 
And yeah, so even it mentioned 

1320
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,040
skin changers and as a thing 
that we're historical matter of 

1321
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,160
historical record. 
So you have to have an 

1322
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,320
opportunity to practice like any
skill, if you're not developing 

1323
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:19,360
it, yeah, it's not going to 
happen. 

1324
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,280
And where is someone like, 
again, Arya or Sansa, when when 

1325
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,200
would they have practiced it? 
Even if they kind of had a sense

1326
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,800
of what they were, right. 
It's it's given they were like 

1327
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,560
trying to hide it, they'd be 
like, I don't want anyone to 

1328
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:31,920
know I have that. 
I don't want anyone to find out 

1329
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,600
I have this ability. 
So again, it's very peculiar 

1330
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,240
that it's a one in 1000 ability 
that rests in all six Starks. 

1331
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,240
That implies something else is 
going on. 

1332
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,640
Either it's a talent that's more
widespread than we thought, or 

1333
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:48,920
it can be the the method for 
transmission is differently so 

1334
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,640
yeah, and Varamir had his first 
experience with a dog. 

1335
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,560
But as I said before, none of 
them had pets. 

1336
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,720
None of the Starks really had a 
pet before they're direwolves. 

1337
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,880
So that that's that's an idea. 
If you want to get more tin 

1338
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,440
foily, then we should consider 
that the direwolves were sent to

1339
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:08,280
the Starks because yeah, someone
knew, but the old gods knew 

1340
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,480
Blood Raven knew that this would
awaken their talent is the best 

1341
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:17,000
way to to get that ball rolling.
He's not just going to appear in

1342
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:18,920
their dreams of like you're a 
skin changer. 

1343
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,280
You know, this is you got to be 
a little more subtle with it. 

1344
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,600
Bring them along slowly. 
It's hard to accept you are 

1345
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,040
something that is shunned by 
your entire culture. 

1346
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,280
So you can't just like dive in, 
like jump into the pool and and 

1347
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,200
learn to swim. 
Bring them along slowly. 

1348
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,200
We've been using Magic Mine for 
quite a while now, which I think

1349
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,840
gives us perspective that we 
didn't have when we first 

1350
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,560
introduced it to y'all that we 
can actually say we have an idea

1351
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,240
of what the long term is like. 
Just as we were discussing the 

1352
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,920
long term for skin changing, we 
have something a little more 

1353
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:50,880
mundane in the real world here 
to talk about. 

1354
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,360
A mental performance shot 
doesn't give you the ability to 

1355
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:59,000
communicate with animals, but it
does give you better 

1356
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,040
concentration and perhaps some 
other benefits. 

1357
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,200
For me, one of the great 
benefits has just been having a 

1358
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,960
nice routine. 
I am really bad at work life 

1359
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,240
balance. 
Working in a position that is 

1360
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:13,000
also something I'm a big fan of.
It's really hard to separate the

1361
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:14,480
two. 
Sometimes that can be a problem.

1362
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,320
It's a good problem to have. 
I cannot even begin. 

1363
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,400
I would never complain about 
what I do for a living, but it 

1364
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:22,720
is still something that I deal 
with. 

1365
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,600
Separating work from life and 
having little disciplines. 

1366
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:30,120
Having routines like drinking 
magic mine in the morning really

1367
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:34,160
helps me settle these things a 
bit, really helps me establish 

1368
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:39,360
these boundaries because it 
helps me focus a little more and

1369
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,240
helps me stay on top of the need
for that separation. 

1370
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,760
I'm going to keep harping on 
that because it's it's a real 

1371
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,000
powerful thing. 
You, you've got a drink that can

1372
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,400
actually, it's actually proven 
to help your concentration 

1373
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,320
focus. 
It will work on most people. 

1374
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,880
What else do I need to say? 
magicmind.com/VIP? 

1375
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:01,880
How 20 that's VIP. 
How 20 Use that code for 20% off

1376
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:06,440
Magic Mind with other deals and 
specials in place, you can get 

1377
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,960
up to 40% off 48% in some cases.
That's pretty sweet. 

1378
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,000
So maybe it's time for you to 
start your magic mind journey. 

1379
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,600
Try it out for a couple weeks, 
see if you notice a difference 

1380
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:22,520
see if you appreciate the 
routine and let us know VIP how 

1381
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,600
20 Once again, magic mind. 
As I said, we're doing topics 

1382
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,000
moot over on our Patreon page, 
which is a yearly event now. 

1383
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,240
This is the second year where we
gather and I make a bunch of 

1384
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,920
polls and you all vote in them. 
And those polls determine 

1385
01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:40,600
episodes that we're going to do 
this year. 

1386
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,479
This time, 16. 
Last year it was 12. 

1387
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,439
This time we had such, so much 
fun with it, we decided to 

1388
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:46,760
expand it. 
So 16 of the episodes we make 

1389
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,479
this year will be determined and
topics moot. 

1390
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:51,600
It's super fun to get involved 
with the voting and discussing 

1391
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,840
all the different possibilities 
and just getting involved with 

1392
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:56,120
the with the fandom, with the 
group. 

1393
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:01,640
So sign up for Patreon and join 
the fun and also get your 

1394
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:07,600
episodes ad free, several bonus 
episodes and the satisfaction of

1395
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,279
supporting what is presumably 
one of your favorite podcasts. 

1396
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,840
If it's not, well, never mind, 
let's move on. 

1397
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,439
We're going to Sansa now. 
So she lost lady really early on

1398
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:20,920
when a bond was formed in that 
short time. 

1399
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,319
I think probably like it. 
Maybe not a skin changer bond, 

1400
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,680
but it, it looks like just like 
a couple of chapters. 

1401
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,920
But remember, we're actually 
talking several months. 

1402
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,080
She had Lady for months before 
Lady was killed. 

1403
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,240
I mean, that journey through the
Neck from the Winterfell, that's

1404
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,240
a long trip trekking down there.
They're moving really slow, the 

1405
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,840
speed of the Queen's wheelhouse.
Remember, it was not a quick 

1406
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,160
trip. 
That's part of why I already had

1407
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:47,920
so much time to wander around 
and check out swamps and forests

1408
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,960
and all the other cool stuff. 
So that is important in 

1409
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:55,120
understanding what Sansa may 
have experienced. 

1410
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,080
Because yeah, like, that's 
that's a lot, right? 

1411
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:02,120
Just a couple of months with 
Lady and you can form quite a 

1412
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:03,560
bond with an animal in a few 
months. 

1413
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,960
So she has thoughts on dreams. 
Like Sansa thinks about dreams 

1414
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,280
sometimes, but not wolf dreams. 
She doesn't specifically have 

1415
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:12,440
wolf dreams. 
Nothing of substance in this 

1416
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:16,640
regard that you can say skin 
changer, but it still makes you 

1417
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,920
think. 
And she has a symbolic bond with

1418
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,440
the hound. 
The easiest animal to bond with 

1419
01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:24,840
is a dog. 
They say interesting. 

1420
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,720
You know, of course there's no 
skin changer bond there, but 

1421
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:32,680
it's still strikes these same 
notes more through symbolism 

1422
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:33,960
than through supernatural 
elements. 

1423
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,920
And he calls her a little bird, 
which that's kind of neat. 

1424
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:42,440
So you've got this. 
The animal elements are present 

1425
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:45,240
in their relationship, whatever 
their relationship actually is, 

1426
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:50,200
but it's it's something and she 
has like there's a dog that she 

1427
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,760
bonds with at the at the Erie 
that's just an old dog, you 

1428
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,840
know, whatever she bonds with an
old dog that's very human. 

1429
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,600
That's a normal thing to do. 
There's no magic there. 

1430
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,400
But still, like George wrote 
that he chose to give her the 

1431
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:05,120
scene with this animal and it's 
it makes you think about this 

1432
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:09,080
kind of thing. 
So I wonder about that. 

1433
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,240
At one point, Arya thinks how 
Sansa knows songs, not spells, 

1434
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,600
but the singers, the children of
the force are called singer 

1435
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:21,720
songs and spells are very much 
you LinkedIn this concept in 

1436
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:23,760
this world. 
I know Ari didn't mean it that 

1437
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,320
way, but I reading that sentence
that way. 

1438
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:27,800
There's another way to think 
about it here. 

1439
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,040
I'm like, yeah, those two those 
two aren't as distinct as maybe 

1440
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:36,640
Ari's making them out to be. 
Here's a a fun moment that that 

1441
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:41,880
Aria and the Hound over here 
about Sansa that also touches on

1442
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:46,360
very vaguely the notion of them 
having animal qualities or skin 

1443
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:47,840
changing abilities. 
Maybe quote? 

1444
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,040
The Northern girl, Winterfell's 
daughter. 

1445
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:55,360
We heard she killed the king 
with a spell and afterward 

1446
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:59,840
changed into a wolf with big 
leather wings like a bat and 

1447
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,200
flew out a tower window. 
This is what triggers Ari to 

1448
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,560
think Sansa knows songs, not 
spells. 

1449
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:07,560
She certainly doesn't know how 
to do that. 

1450
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,400
But again, pretty curious, 
right? 

1451
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:14,320
It's like a fun way for George 
to be a little subtle or to 

1452
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:16,840
deliver a message that makes us 
think. 

1453
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:22,000
Now, what about if Santa 
reunites with her family and 

1454
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,720
they all have these powers and 
she doesn't? 

1455
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,120
Or she just has like the 
slightest inkling of it, just 

1456
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,160
the barest touch of it? 
Is that going to make her feel a

1457
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:35,120
little isolated? 
Will she be a little bit outside

1458
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,120
the group because of that? 
Or maybe she'll have enough of 

1459
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,440
it to feel apart. 
Maybe it'll be something that 

1460
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,480
she's like, oh, yeah, no, I have
had those feelings, those 

1461
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:43,920
thoughts, those instincts. 
I never knew what it was. 

1462
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:45,400
And maybe that brings her closer
to them. 

1463
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,320
That's kind of more what I'd be 
hoping for. 

1464
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,320
But I mean, it's up to George, 
obviously. 

1465
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:55,040
And why would George even bother
to say she has the talent? 

1466
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,160
Why would he point out that all 
six of them have it? 

1467
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:00,840
If it's irrelevant, if it's not 
going to matter, Why did he make

1468
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,240
that call? 
He seemed very ready for it to 

1469
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,480
say yes, all of them have it. 
He was quick with that answer. 

1470
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,840
He's had that answer since at 
least the year 2000. 

1471
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:14,200
So he decided that she's had 
this ability a long time ago, 

1472
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,040
quite possibly since the 
beginning. 

1473
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:20,280
So that probably has a payoff at
some point, even if it's small. 

1474
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,680
But small could be big in its 
own way. 

1475
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,840
It could be a small detail that 
turns into a big deal, like a 

1476
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,760
small little aspect of her 
supernatural ability that makes 

1477
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,040
her able to bond with her 
siblings in a way that others 

1478
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,000
can't. 
In a way that puts them in their

1479
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,480
own unique category, that helps 
them become a unit. 

1480
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:39,320
That makes them more of a pack. 
Because they have this unique 

1481
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,760
thing that other people kind of 
shun. 

1482
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,320
But for them, it's a source of 
strength. 

1483
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:44,840
They're the pack. 
They're the direwolves. 

1484
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,120
They are the Starks. 
That's the way I hope it goes. 

1485
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:49,560
I hope it's a thing they bond 
over that brings them closer 

1486
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:53,240
together with sense. 
I could maybe see it going the 

1487
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,520
other way if the power isn't 
strong enough or manifested 

1488
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:59,680
within her, if he doesn't fully 
realize it. 

1489
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,120
But George said she on some 
level she realizes it and maybe 

1490
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:03,880
that'll grow. 
So I I'm pretty optimistic about

1491
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,440
that. 
What about Rickon, it's hard to 

1492
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:10,840
be too specific with him, right?
He's a case 3 when we first meet

1493
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,120
him. 
He's maybe 5 now, maybe 6. 

1494
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,000
I don't think he's quite 6 yet. 
And Shaggy is so wild. 

1495
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:21,000
How much of that is just his 
owner is a four year old? 

1496
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:24,800
How much of that is the bond? 
Both. 

1497
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,880
Making each other wild is Rick 
and making Shaggy Wilder? 

1498
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:29,200
Is Shaggy making Rick and 
Wilder? 

1499
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:30,800
Is it both? 
Is it a two way street? 

1500
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,240
I think both so. 
And in a way this is the 

1501
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,400
opposite of Sansa. 
If Sansa losing her wolf is a 

1502
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:41,280
huge detriment to her skin 
changer abilities, but maybe 

1503
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,760
maybe a boon to her personality 
because she's not going to 

1504
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,720
become too wolf like that might 
be the opposite here for Rickon.

1505
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:52,000
He spends an outsized amount of 
his time with his wolf and has 

1506
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,000
been parented the least of any 
of the Starks. 

1507
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,040
Remember, Rickon had that same 
dream as Bran. 

1508
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,320
He knew that Ned was dead. 
He went down into the Crips. 

1509
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,040
It's very creepy. 
I wouldn't say this is directly 

1510
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:08,080
related to skin changing, but 
it's certainly magical. 

1511
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,040
Certainly in the world of 
dreams. 

1512
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,200
Which absolutely touches on skin
changing. 

1513
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,480
Wolf dreams is a relationship to
that. 

1514
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:17,240
Even though technically wolf 
dreams aren't dreams, they 

1515
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,600
happen at night. 
They aren't exactly dreams. 

1516
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:25,280
More on that later. 
And related, John has a dream as

1517
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,400
Ghost of Shaggy Duck. 
So he's having a wolf dream 

1518
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,240
which isn't really a dream 
because Shaggy is awake or Ghost

1519
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:34,440
is awake and in that dream of 
ghost, Ghost is in Shaggy dog's 

1520
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:36,440
world and seeing through his 
eyes. 

1521
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,240
So it's like inception. 
It's very much skin changer 

1522
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,040
inception here. 
It appears to be an enormous 

1523
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,640
goat that Shaggy's just killed, 
which by the way, is a theory 

1524
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:50,640
that that's a Unicorn. 
That's a separate topic though. 

1525
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,400
But he also senses and sees 
Nymeria in that same dream. 

1526
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:59,240
It's like he has a like a wolf, 
full specter, everyone. 

1527
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,920
He dreams of all the other 
direwolves and their connected 

1528
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,840
owners, and that's John 1 to 
Dance with Dragons. 

1529
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:09,240
It's really interesting. 
So we've referred to the 

1530
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,920
direwolves as teachers, right? 
They are the ones that activate 

1531
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,360
the ability within the Starks. 
That's our one of our working 

1532
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,520
models anyway. 
So Ricken is perhaps the best 

1533
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,360
example of this because he's 
like effectively homeschooled by

1534
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,920
his direwolf, right? 
Because it's it's his main 

1535
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,200
teacher. 
The other kids all had other 

1536
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,440
various educations growing up. 
Bran had hours with Maestro Lew 

1537
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:32,600
and Aria, Sansa and John and Rob
far more. 

1538
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,120
Ricken is again, he starts his 
story as a three-year old. 

1539
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:40,400
He's very unparented. 
He's he's stuff happens right. 

1540
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,840
All these things that happen to 
the to the Starks. 

1541
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,920
Robert shows up brands almost 
murdered. 

1542
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,320
Ricken is lost. 
He's under parented. 

1543
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,600
His dog is his wolf is his 
parent. 

1544
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:53,920
That's the constant companion he
has. 

1545
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,160
That's who he's learning from. 
That's who he's bonding with. 

1546
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,920
So he's his best friend. 
It's it's the boy and his puppy 

1547
01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:01,960
growing up together from a very 
early age. 

1548
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:05,760
But with this like orphaned 
aspect to them, right? 

1549
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,080
It's it's far more impactful to 
Rickon than it is to any of the 

1550
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:11,160
other Starks because it's just 
been the biggest portion of his 

1551
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,800
life. 
He can't understand it. 

1552
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,440
He's too young to grasp what's 
happening. 

1553
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:21,760
So he's figuring out that he's a
skin changer from an early age 

1554
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:25,320
before it can be weird. 
He hasn't learned all these 

1555
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:28,520
things about, he probably hasn't
heard old man's stories, or if 

1556
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,960
he has it's a couple times. 
Like how knowledgeable can he 

1557
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,840
possibly be about what the world
thinks of skin change? 

1558
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:40,600
To him, this is normal, it's 
unnatural, it's supernatural to 

1559
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,400
everyone else. 
To him it's just he's a 

1560
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,880
three-year old boy, 4 year old 
boy and this is what he can do. 

1561
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:47,480
To him, it's just what he can 
do. 

1562
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:50,520
Just as natural as him having a 
dire wolf as a pet, which 

1563
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,640
doesn't seem weird to him, 
probably seems weird to 

1564
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:55,920
everybody else except his 
siblings, and probably seems a 

1565
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,480
little weird to his siblings. 
They recognize that no one else 

1566
01:17:58,480 --> 01:18:03,120
has dire wolf pets. 
So Rickon's example, Rickon's 

1567
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,120
life is so different. 
It's really hard to grasp all 

1568
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,120
this unless you've really put 
the thought into it like we're 

1569
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:12,000
doing right now. 
So it's a big double whammy. 

1570
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,400
He's effectively orphaned from 
his family, underparented and 

1571
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:20,920
extended family. 
Like he loses Mickon and Lewin 

1572
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,360
and all the other people that 
live at Winterfell, just all the

1573
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,840
the cast and crew that he grew 
up around. 

1574
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:31,480
Like they all liked him and he 
liked a lot of them and he lost 

1575
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:33,760
all that. 
But he still has Shaggy, the one

1576
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:38,400
constant unlike his, the rest of
his family, their constants were

1577
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,280
the rest of them. 
Rick Ricken has spent more time 

1578
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:43,080
with Shaggy than he spent with 
his family. 

1579
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:47,080
That's a big deal. 
Again, I repeat, Bran is told by

1580
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,200
Jojen, don't spend too much time
in your wolf. 

1581
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,880
You'll become too much like him.
No one's telling Ricken to do 

1582
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:53,720
that. 
They don't even know. 

1583
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:58,560
He's already fierce and wild, 
and I bet he feels better and 

1584
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,920
safer when he's in Shaggy, just 
like Bran and Aria do. 

1585
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:05,800
They feel safer, stronger, 
fearless, powerful when they're 

1586
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,720
in their wolves. 
It's still it's not strange that

1587
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:12,960
they would want to do that. 
They're alone and lost and 

1588
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,680
scared. 
If you can take some refuge in 

1589
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,000
your wolf and feel powerful and 
mighty and not scared, you would

1590
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,200
do that. 
Especially if you didn't know it

1591
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:27,480
was bad, which only Bran does 
know that Shaggy has been very 

1592
01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:29,320
wild. 
How much of that is the him 

1593
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:34,480
sensing Rickens upset or or how 
much of it is the other way? 

1594
01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:35,920
What how much of it is a two way
St. 

1595
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,920
Shaggy has hurt several guards. 
He hurt Lewin, he hurt little 

1596
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,160
Walder, he almost hurt Tyrion. 
And I mean hurt. 

1597
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:45,400
I mean he like bit them pretty 
hard, like drew blood right? 

1598
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,720
He fought with summer at one 
point and summer was strong 

1599
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:51,520
enough to overcome him and and 
calm him back down. 

1600
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,240
So if we go back to the 
knowledge that skin changers 

1601
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:59,120
often become more like they're 
animals, Rickon is number one on

1602
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,120
the list. 
Maybe besides John, who might 

1603
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:04,120
live inside his wolf as a dead 
person. 

1604
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,560
So we'll, we'll, we'll give John
a little bit of a a carve out 

1605
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,520
possibility here. 
But other than that, Rickon is 

1606
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,680
wolf boy. 
His all his life is pointing in 

1607
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:17,160
this direction. 
He's getting parented by his 

1608
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:24,040
wolf and now by Skagosi I guess.
Instead of by his own parents. 

1609
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,000
And so his wolf is his dad 
basically. 

1610
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:27,840
It's crazy. 
It's really weird to think about

1611
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,800
and a little sad. 
And how is it going to play out 

1612
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:35,080
in the long run? 
Well, he could be very wolfish 

1613
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:39,720
or he could just die. 
This all could end by his death 

1614
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,120
and we just won't ever see what 
kind of person he turns into. 

1615
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:45,920
But if he's reunited with his 
siblings and he's like just 

1616
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,120
wild, super wild, violent, 
angry, like that could be a 

1617
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:53,920
problem or an omen like they 
could be like, well, let's not 

1618
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:56,400
let's not do that. 
Let's not become like our our 

1619
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,120
brother here. 
Like, Yikes. 

1620
01:20:58,160 --> 01:20:59,520
You know, this is what can 
happen. 

1621
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,080
So he could be a cautionary 
tale. 

1622
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:04,400
He could be a tragedy. 
He could be both of those 

1623
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:09,680
things, but he's very unique. 
Let's talk. 

1624
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,120
Rob clearly had a bond with 
Greywyn. 

1625
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:15,040
Perhaps as early as the great 
John scene. 

1626
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,360
All he did was like whistle and 
make it like a simple hand 

1627
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:25,240
gesture and Grey Wind jumped 
forward, bit two of his fingers 

1628
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:28,760
off and then backed off. 
Like did he train him to do 

1629
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:30,200
that? 
It was so specific. 

1630
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:35,400
Like he really none of that was 
like Rob is like communicating 

1631
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,400
what he wants done through the 
skin changer bond and maybe not 

1632
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,040
fully realizing he's like, oh, 
this is a very obedient dog. 

1633
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:42,800
This wolf knows exactly what I 
want. 

1634
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:45,920
No, no, you told him through 
your mind what to do. 

1635
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,280
I don't know if Rob is just 
perceived that this command was 

1636
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:52,600
understood so directly, or if he
just thinks my wolf is very 

1637
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:53,480
smart. 
He's really good at 

1638
01:21:53,480 --> 01:21:55,720
understanding what I want. 
Rob was like, man, I really want

1639
01:21:55,720 --> 01:22:02,160
some chicken fingers right now. 
Those are bare fingers, giant 

1640
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,760
fingers. 
And of course, when he when Rob 

1641
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:11,720
rather Gray wind, maybe Rob led 
his army past the golden tooth 

1642
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:14,320
they snuck by this really 
important Fort that's supposed 

1643
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:16,960
to hold the mountain passes. 
But Greywin sniffed out a track.

1644
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,000
Did Greywin sniff the track? 
How did Greywin communicate this

1645
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:22,360
to Rob? 
Unless Rob was seeing through 

1646
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:26,840
his eyes like follow me to the 
track like was, hey, he wants us

1647
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,360
to follow him. 
You know, I mean, maybe that's 

1648
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:32,280
possible, but it feels like the 
skin changer pond would make all

1649
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:35,320
this flow a lot more easily. 
And Rob could just keep it quiet

1650
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:36,520
from his men. 
He's like, I'm not going to tell

1651
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,000
them how I know this, but we're 
going to use this information. 

1652
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,680
Here's a quote about it, Sir, 
Lancel said. 

1653
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:48,600
Rob LED an army of wargs. 
The imp gave a disdainful bark 

1654
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,360
of laughter. 
Sir Lancel's a wineskin warrior 

1655
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:54,200
who wouldn't know a warg from a 
wart. 

1656
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:58,280
Your brother had his direwolf 
with him, but I suspect that's 

1657
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:01,680
as far as it went. 
The North man crept into my 

1658
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:06,000
uncle's camp and cut his horse 
lines and Lord Stark sent his 

1659
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:10,280
wolf among them. 
Even war trained destriers went 

1660
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,240
mad. 
Those who survived are spreading

1661
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:18,080
wild tales and swearing that the
old gods of the North marched. 

1662
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:22,280
Then there was no sorcery. 
Lannister snorted. 

1663
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:26,680
Sorcery is the sauce. 
Fool spoon over failure to hide 

1664
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:28,880
the flavor of their own 
incompetence. 

1665
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,280
This is a great example of why 
not both Tyrion. 

1666
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,240
Tyrion's not wrong that Sir 
Safford goofed. 

1667
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,560
He should have put guards out. 
But sorcery isn't really the 

1668
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:39,400
right word. 
Maybe. 

1669
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:41,800
But absolutely there was some 
magic involved here. 

1670
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,440
Yeah. 
So it probably did go farther. 

1671
01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:47,480
Tyrion's probably have. 
Tyrion is half right, but he's 

1672
01:23:47,480 --> 01:23:50,120
wrong about the magic part. 
There probably was magic 

1673
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:51,720
involved. 
There probably was skin changing

1674
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,520
in play here. 
Tyrion is a notorious skeptic. 

1675
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,880
Throughout the first few books 
he's constantly saying all this 

1676
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,840
is total BS and he's he's just 
wrong and it's kind of his 

1677
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:02,400
journey is that he learns he's 
going to be wrong. 

1678
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,600
I love it because he's he comes 
off as a as as someone who's 

1679
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,600
knowledgeable and like he's, 
he's an authority figure. 

1680
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:10,240
But yeah, he's just 100% wrong 
or 50% wrong here. 

1681
01:24:12,440 --> 01:24:16,240
So there's a case to be made. 
Rob got kind of far before his 

1682
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,400
death and being self-taught, 
like if he figured out how to 

1683
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:22,240
use Greywind in his campaign so 
effectively, that's something 

1684
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:25,520
that's very much something. 
So and he still wonders that 

1685
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:28,440
Tyrion still was like, man, even
though even though he's like 

1686
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:31,560
downplays the sorcery completely
more than downplays that he 

1687
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,040
throws it out the window and 
spits on it. 

1688
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,960
But he's still like, yeah, but 
how did you get around the 

1689
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,760
golden tooth? 
I was like you bro. 

1690
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,360
Yeah, maybe you should be a 
little more open minded about 

1691
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,120
these possibilities. 
So that and he gets that from 

1692
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,040
his father too. 
Like obviously Tywin also has a 

1693
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,960
similar attitude towards sorcery
and and things being involved 

1694
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:56,400
here now. 
I wonder as well what Rob felt 

1695
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,600
in that moment before his death.
Like when Greg when warned him 

1696
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:02,640
at the twins, did he just 
downplay that and then regret it

1697
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:05,080
in his final moments? 
Or then he had a second regret 

1698
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:06,320
in his second death. 
Yeah. 

1699
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:11,200
Yeah, that's sad. 
As I laugh, I get that sad. 

1700
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:15,280
Laughing at you, stupid Rob. 
He deserved it. 

1701
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:17,160
What an idiot. 
What an. 

1702
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,000
Idiot. 
No, I I don't think that, but I 

1703
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,800
do think he died twice probably.
Yeah, it it gives it, it makes 

1704
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,360
his death even more tragic. 
If he had this realization at 

1705
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,280
the end, he's like, oh, I should
have listened to my wolf. 

1706
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:29,160
Damn. 
Yeah. 

1707
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:32,120
Tragedy. 
Tragery, as they call it. 

1708
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:37,920
Yaki Niko asks. 
Do inhabitants of Gagasos and 

1709
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,040
the Basilo Skiles have an 
equivalent version of skin 

1710
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:41,240
changing? 
I need to know. 

1711
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:45,200
Someone at some point tried to 
do What would someone try to do?

1712
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:46,880
Creatures in Sothorios, which 
are totally dinosaurs? 

1713
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:48,280
Yeah. 
Did we have dinosaur skin 

1714
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:49,440
changers? 
Yeah. 

1715
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:50,920
I hope so, because that's bad 
ass. 

1716
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,480
You know, we got to have that 
probably. 

1717
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:56,640
Or maybe there are skin changers
if they they don't have skin 

1718
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:59,040
changers born in those places. 
Well, there's nothing stopping 

1719
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:01,480
skin changers from leaving 
Westeros and traveling around 

1720
01:26:01,480 --> 01:26:04,200
the world and seeing what sorts 
of animals they can control. 

1721
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:05,120
Yeah. 
You know, that's actually an 

1722
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,400
interesting concept. 
Like a guy like Vermeer, like, 

1723
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:10,280
why don't I travel the world and
try to control whatever else is 

1724
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:10,800
out there? 
Do. 

1725
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,440
We know any lizard skin 
changers. 

1726
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:15,200
No, Yeah. 
What is it like to be a Rep? 

1727
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:17,440
Because that's like not not many
reptiles would live in the 

1728
01:26:17,440 --> 01:26:18,000
North. 
Right. 

1729
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:19,240
Yeah, yeah. 
Very good new army. 

1730
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,320
For them in terms of us talking 
about like how a bird brain 

1731
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,400
would affect you or wolf brain 
or. 

1732
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,840
Reptile brain is. 
That would be really something, 

1733
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:29,320
yeah. 
That would be really something 

1734
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:31,200
because reptiles are like, 
really like, because. 

1735
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:33,440
It also makes you think of 
Dragons, which is the the thing 

1736
01:26:33,440 --> 01:26:35,440
people always think about. 
Bringing people. 

1737
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:38,600
To work or, or connecting the, 
the bond to the skin changer 

1738
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:40,640
bond or whatever. 
And and they're obviously kind 

1739
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:42,680
of. 
Is the dragon bond like a a 

1740
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:45,200
lighter version of that? 
Is it the same? 

1741
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,520
Does it originate from the same 
source magic wise? 

1742
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:49,600
Or is it just something that's 
similar but developed 

1743
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,520
separately? 
Yeah, these are all related 

1744
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:53,680
ideas. 
Very cool to think about and I 

1745
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,040
love this thought by Yaki Nikko.
That is, you got someone out 

1746
01:26:57,040 --> 01:26:59,920
there like some skin changer, 
some enterprising skin changer 

1747
01:26:59,920 --> 01:27:03,120
went to the jungles of 
Zauthorius and got themself a a 

1748
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:04,840
Wyvern or a Raptor. 
A ride. 

1749
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:07,760
I can ride a Raptor around like 
I'm a Raptor Cavalry. 

1750
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:10,320
Bring the Raptor cavalry. 
Watch out y'all. 

1751
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:13,280
I think, yeah, it was Christina 
Kay, I think who said, sorry if 

1752
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:16,560
I attributed this wrong, but I 
think she said if elephants are 

1753
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:20,560
coming to Westeros, I think or 
or skin change rather into an 

1754
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:22,320
elephant. 
Whoa, that's really powerful, 

1755
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:24,280
cause an elephant never forgets.
So you get into an elephant's 

1756
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:25,880
brain and you get all these 
memories. 

1757
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:27,960
Yeah, that's cool. 
That's cool. 

1758
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:29,320
Yeah. 
And you wonder, can Bran, like a

1759
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:31,240
Bran can go into Hodor? 
Can you go into a giant? 

1760
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:33,520
You know? 
Yeah, it's it's lots of 

1761
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,120
possibilities here. 
Speaking of Bran, here's that 

1762
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,200
Jojen quote that I jumped the 
gun on. 

1763
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:40,880
Here it is. 
The wolf dreams are no true 

1764
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,560
dreams. 
You have your eye closed tight 

1765
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:47,800
whenever you're awake, but as 
you drift off, it flutters open 

1766
01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:50,480
and your soul seeks out its 
other half. 

1767
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:54,320
Power is strong in you. 
Yeah, that's why it's not a true

1768
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:55,880
dream, because the wolf is 
awake. 

1769
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:59,840
Even if you're asleep or in a 
state of reverie or 

1770
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,760
unconsciousness or something 
like that, if you're in that 

1771
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:06,280
flow state, maybe that's a good,
decent word choice for this. 

1772
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,560
You can kind of accidentally get
there. 

1773
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,600
You can kind of the skin changer
ability that you're trying to 

1774
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:14,080
develop can happen through these
states of mind. 

1775
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:16,880
You can accidentally, like he 
says, like Jojen says, your soul

1776
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:20,280
seeks out its other half. 
When your soul is at rest, it 

1777
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:23,400
seeks to reconnect with what 
it's bonded to. 

1778
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,160
Arya does it accidentally as 
well. 

1779
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:30,200
There's a scene in Dance with 
Dragons, I believe, when she's 

1780
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,680
serving the gathering of 
faceless men. 

1781
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,480
She's got a, you know, a flag in
and she's just pouring drinks 

1782
01:28:35,480 --> 01:28:38,280
for them. 
She's gets really bored standing

1783
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:40,840
there waiting for people to 
drink and just starts to drift 

1784
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:43,000
off while standing there. 
And she has a wolf dream while 

1785
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,560
standing there. 
Again, no, not a true dream. 

1786
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:47,680
She wasn't actually asleep, and 
neither is Nymeria. 

1787
01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:48,760
She's not. 
It's like she goes into 

1788
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:50,440
Nymeria's head while Nymeria's 
asleep. 

1789
01:28:50,440 --> 01:28:53,040
She's like a wolf. 
Wolf dream. 

1790
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:55,880
This is what the wolf is 
actually dreaming about. 

1791
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:58,440
We don't have that. 
We have the the wolves are 

1792
01:28:58,440 --> 01:29:00,400
always awake when they go into 
their eyes, right? 

1793
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:02,080
So it's the same thing that 
happened with Ari. 

1794
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:04,720
Apparently as she drifted off, 
her third eye opened and her 

1795
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,000
soul sought out its other half, 
which was Nymerian. 

1796
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:10,120
So this is a good reminder that 
the skin changer rabbit hole is 

1797
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:12,240
a lot deeper than just what 
we're covering today. 

1798
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:14,600
We're covering the Starks and 
how we're we're spending as much

1799
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,760
time on how it affects them as 
people and characters as we are 

1800
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:21,280
focusing on the magic. 
And we're really not touching on

1801
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:22,800
some of these other ones as 
much. 

1802
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:23,920
There's other characters out 
there. 

1803
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:28,320
Let's talk about John. 
Though we wouldn't rate John as 

1804
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:32,200
powerful as Ari or Bran, there's
confounding factors which might 

1805
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:33,720
change our view of that in the 
long run. 

1806
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:37,080
He might have been the first, 
though, to use his abilities. 

1807
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:39,880
Let me explain. 
It's one of my favorite moments.

1808
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,080
In the early parts of the book, 
he seems to have formed a 

1809
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:45,040
connection to Ghost. 
Before he even saw a Ghost, 

1810
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:48,120
before he even saw the white 
pup, he seemed to have bonded 

1811
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:52,800
with him, which might imply a 
third party encouraging these 

1812
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:56,400
bonds, helping them, fulfilling 
them, facilitating them before 

1813
01:29:56,400 --> 01:29:58,040
the final connections are made, 
something like that. 

1814
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:02,000
Here's what I mean. 
Let's recall that at first John 

1815
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,040
said, hey, 5 pups, one for each 
Stark trial. 

1816
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:05,920
He left himself out of the count
to make it work. 

1817
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:10,360
And then he, as they're riding 
away, John pause and says, hey, 

1818
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:14,680
did you hear that? 
No one heard it. 

1819
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:18,000
Theon didn't hear it. 
Bran, whose POV it is, doesn't 

1820
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,080
hear a thing. 
John turns around, goes back and

1821
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:23,680
finds Ghost. 
In that moment, it seems pretty 

1822
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:26,040
straightforward. 
It's like, OK, John just has 

1823
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:27,840
sharper ears. 
He heard something that no one 

1824
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:29,360
else did. 
But. 

1825
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:31,080
And that's not unreasonable, 
right? 

1826
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,360
So John has better ears. 
Big deal. 

1827
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:37,360
But later, again, George doing 
that trick where he gives us the

1828
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:39,720
question, the answer, rather, he
gives us the answer to the 

1829
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,160
Riddle before he gives us the 
question or even gives us the 

1830
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:44,880
Riddle. 
Ghost is an extremely silent 

1831
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:48,000
animal who never whimpers, never
growls, never makes a sound. 

1832
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:50,360
Benjen calls him a very quiet 
wolf. 

1833
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:52,520
John responds. 
He never makes a sound. 

1834
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:54,920
That's why I named him Ghost. 
That's a direct quote. 

1835
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:56,720
How the heck did John hear him 
then? 

1836
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:01,280
He doesn't make a sound. 
The skin changer bond, That's 

1837
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:02,120
it. 
That's the only thing I can 

1838
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:04,000
think of, right? 
That's the only thing he could 

1839
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:05,480
have heard that no one else 
heard. 

1840
01:31:05,480 --> 01:31:06,960
How could John be the only one 
to hear it? 

1841
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:09,680
Big moment there. 
Very subtle. 

1842
01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:12,440
That's why I love it as George 
is hitting us with this kind of 

1843
01:31:12,440 --> 01:31:15,680
stuff in freaking chapter 1. 
There's only one alternative 

1844
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:17,040
option there for me. 
What's that? 

1845
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:20,960
And it's that Blood. 
Raven reached into John and put 

1846
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:23,880
that into him. 
Okay, which is kind of the same 

1847
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:25,680
thing. 
It's it's a magical L it's a 

1848
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:28,000
magical thing, kind. 
Of a statement on blood raven's 

1849
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,680
power, if that were the case, 
versus statement on John's 

1850
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:33,680
initial connection. 
So I think they are distinct, 

1851
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:36,640
but I think, yeah, I, I probably
lean towards your idea, but I 

1852
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:38,640
just want to throw out the blood
Raven of it all. 

1853
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:40,640
Yeah, that's a good call. 
Absolutely. 

1854
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:43,000
Fair to point that out. 
And yeah, I think there's a very

1855
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,720
good chance that's the case. 
Either way, it's huge for John's

1856
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:47,680
character as well. 
Regardless of the mechanism 

1857
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:50,920
here, it shows that he is a a a 
little bit of an outcast. 

1858
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:54,360
He's the bastard. 
Ghost is separated from the 

1859
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,000
other Starks. 
I mean from the other direwolves

1860
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:00,840
is a very symbolic moment. 
So immediately they have a lot 

1861
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:04,560
in common and John and Ghost 
have bonded because of their 

1862
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,840
similar circumstances. 
And there's nothing like the 

1863
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:12,360
actual opinion of a real skin 
changer on matters such as this.

1864
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:16,240
Quote Merrimere. 
He had known what Snow was the 

1865
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:20,680
moment he saw that great white 
direwolf stalking silent at his 

1866
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:23,640
side. 
One skin changer can always 

1867
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:26,520
sense another. 
Mance should have let me take 

1868
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:29,360
the direwolf. 
There would be a second life 

1869
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,120
worthy of a king. 
He could have done it. 

1870
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:36,440
He did not doubt The gift was 
strong in Snow, but the youth 

1871
01:32:36,440 --> 01:32:40,080
was untaught, still fighting his
nature when he should have 

1872
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,400
gloried in it. 
Exactly what we were talking 

1873
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:44,640
about earlier. 
Barry was like, boy, if, if this

1874
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:48,200
kid just, like, accepted what he
was and embraced it, he would be

1875
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:50,840
a force. 
But he's fighting his nature. 

1876
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:52,640
He doesn't want to be it. 
He doesn't accept it. 

1877
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:55,680
He resists it. 
He was taught that this is a bad

1878
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:57,120
thing, so he doesn't want to be 
it. 

1879
01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:59,640
It's a little unusual for John 
because John is very good at 

1880
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:02,520
accepting tough truths. 
It's one of the first things we 

1881
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:04,200
learn about him when he's on 
that, when he's walking with 

1882
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:07,320
Tyrion and Tyrion's like, yeah, 
the wall is full of miscreants. 

1883
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,600
And John's like, no, it's noble.
And he's like, yeah, right. 

1884
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:12,280
And then John's like, all right.
If that's what it is, that's 

1885
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:14,280
what it is. 
He accepts it like after like a 

1886
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:18,360
very brief list of arguments. 
So and John is a little slower 

1887
01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:22,800
to accept this. 
But especially, you know, 

1888
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:27,760
earlier on one of the wolf 
dreams John has, he's has a big 

1889
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,160
one in Clash of Kings with Bran,
seems to be talking to him 

1890
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,160
directly. 
But he also has that one I 

1891
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:36,880
mentioned earlier where he's 
pretty much having a dream of 

1892
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:40,200
all the direwolves. 
He's in Ghost's mind and Ghost 

1893
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:42,560
is casting his. 
We got that example with the 

1894
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,360
goat on Skagos. 
But we also he also recognizes 

1895
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:49,080
the loss of Lady and the loss of
Greywind and that he can't sense

1896
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:51,280
Summer. 
Why can't he send some? 

1897
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:52,880
He knows Summer's alive. 
He can't sense him. 

1898
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:54,960
That's because summer's on. 
The other side of the wall. 

1899
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:58,120
That's why he can't sense him, 
just like John can't sense 

1900
01:33:58,120 --> 01:33:59,760
ghosts when they're on. 
Opposite sides of the wall. 

1901
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:07,480
And he remembers. 
He remembers John does ghost 

1902
01:34:07,480 --> 01:34:08,440
crawling. 
Off. 

1903
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:11,680
To be alone to get away from the
other direwolves, like for 

1904
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,120
whatever reason, he crawled away
from their dead mother. 

1905
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:17,200
He has that memory. 
That's a big deal. 

1906
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:22,120
He he has a memory that from his
direwolf as a pup that he wasn't

1907
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:25,240
bonded to at that point, or was 
he already bonded without 

1908
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:26,840
knowing it? 
So that's that's peculiar and 

1909
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:30,360
very interesting. 
When he tells Corin and the rest

1910
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,240
of the Rangers he's with about 
what he saw about what happened 

1911
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:38,400
with Orrell and Ghost and seeing
the army, Eben says skin 

1912
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:42,720
changer. 
And John still doesn't clock 

1913
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:45,000
exactly what's being said. 
He's still stubborn about he's 

1914
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,320
like, is he talking about me? 
Of course he's talking about 

1915
01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:51,080
you, John. 
But John is just he's just not 

1916
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:54,040
ready to accept that even John, 
who, as we just said, is, is 

1917
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:55,920
pretty good about accepting 
tough truths. 

1918
01:34:56,920 --> 01:34:59,360
So the again I want to come back
to this point. 

1919
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:00,600
That skin changers can tell each
other. 

1920
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:03,720
Like Evan's not a skin changer, 
he just figured it out. 

1921
01:35:04,240 --> 01:35:08,680
But with Varamir being able to 
tell what John is on site again,

1922
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:11,320
if the Starks are reunited and 
they're all like, Oh my gosh, 

1923
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:15,360
you're a skin changers like me. 
It's not something they figured 

1924
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,440
out about each other in the 
book, in the first book before 

1925
01:35:18,440 --> 01:35:20,400
they were separated. 
So it's going to be it's going 

1926
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,120
to be enormous. 
But how it can play out, I have 

1927
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:23,840
no idea. 
They're going to. 

1928
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:25,360
Is it going to bring them 
together? 

1929
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:26,480
That's. 
Something they all share. 

1930
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:28,400
I talked about maybe they, they,
they're all worried about being 

1931
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:31,480
shunned or they are shunned, so 
they they unite. 

1932
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:36,920
So here's John's thoughts on 
what Werimer said to him and his

1933
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:40,360
own some of his own musings on 
what it means to be a skin 

1934
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:43,320
changer. 
Quote the wildlings called Jon 

1935
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,920
Snow a warg, but if. 
So he was a poor 1. 

1936
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:51,240
He did not know how to put on a 
wolf's skin the way Orrell had 

1937
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:55,920
with his eagle before he died. 
Once John had dreamed that he 

1938
01:35:55,920 --> 01:36:00,200
was Ghost, looking down upon the
valley of the Milk Water where 

1939
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:04,160
Mance Rayder had gathered his 
people, and that dream had 

1940
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:08,200
turned out to be true. 
But he was not dreaming now, and

1941
01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:11,960
that left him only words. 
You cannot come with me. 

1942
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:16,160
John said, cupping the wolf's 
head in his hands and looking 

1943
01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:20,240
deep into those eyes. 
You have to go to Castle Black. 

1944
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:23,840
Do you understand? 
Castle Black? 

1945
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:28,320
Can you find it the way home? 
It's a good question whether or 

1946
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:30,880
not this worked. 
Ghost did go. 

1947
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:32,800
Back to Castle Black, he found 
him. 

1948
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:33,560
It. 
Worked. 

1949
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:37,080
Whether Ghost just sniffed his 
way back because he knows where 

1950
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:43,280
home is, he's got the good nose,
or because John was able through

1951
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:45,320
this to maybe communicate a 
little bit. 

1952
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:47,960
He doesn't have the ability to. 
Like he says here, he doesn't 

1953
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:51,400
have the ability to slip into 
his skin like he wants to, but 

1954
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:54,560
maybe he's still able to get a 
little bit of a message through.

1955
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:58,040
It's kind of a sad and scary 
moment at the time, but we all 

1956
01:36:58,040 --> 01:36:59,320
know that. 
Ghost does make it back. 

1957
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:03,400
So that's nice. 
And John, John hasn't been 

1958
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:06,520
taught how to do this. 
He could theoretically go in and

1959
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,720
out of ghost whenever he wanted,
but he doesn't hasn't been 

1960
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:10,200
taught to do that. 
Maybe he'll figure it out on his

1961
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:12,680
own, but now he's dead. 
So he's going to figure it out. 

1962
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:14,800
He's going to figure it out as 
an undead person. 

1963
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:17,600
And who knows what kind of 
changes that will make within 

1964
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:20,760
him as a person and as a, a, a 
user of magic. 

1965
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:23,040
So that's something to think 
about. 

1966
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:27,160
But also it's not exactly 
unknown like Varamir clocked him

1967
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:29,800
but other people have as well. 
People who have nothing to do 

1968
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:32,480
with skin change or even magic. 
They kind of know what he is or 

1969
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:36,160
at least they accuse him of it. 
For example, pretty much all his

1970
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,000
nice watch brothers probably 
have thoughts on this. 

1971
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:41,640
Maybe it's kind of rude to talk 
about, but some people are rude 

1972
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:44,320
and they are willing to say the 
quiet part out loud. 

1973
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:49,480
Such as Jano Slint quote look 
the beast that tore the life 

1974
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:53,280
from half hand. 
A warg walks among us, brothers.

1975
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:59,000
A warg this this creature is not
fit to lead us. 

1976
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:02,440
This beastling is not fit to 
live. 

1977
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:06,120
Beastling seems like a 
derogatory. 

1978
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:07,240
Term. 
Well, let's remember, that's the

1979
01:38:07,240 --> 01:38:09,280
word that Jojen told Bran. 
He would call it. 

1980
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,320
He said they'll call you. 
Beastling yeah, yeah. 

1981
01:38:11,320 --> 01:38:13,880
So I think we can be pretty 
definitive about that, that 

1982
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:15,560
they. 
Creature is not a good term 

1983
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:17,280
either. 
This creature is not fit to 

1984
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:17,920
lead. 
Yeah, he's saying he's. 

1985
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:19,480
Not human. 
Yeah, he's trying to dehumanize 

1986
01:38:19,480 --> 01:38:22,040
him. 
But very, very directly, but it 

1987
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,160
no one really reacts the way 
Slint wants. 

1988
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:26,640
It's it's an uncomfortable topic
for them probably to be like, 

1989
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:29,680
yeah, Jon is probably a skin 
changer, but this is still Jon 

1990
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,320
Snow. 
This is still the guy that saved

1991
01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:36,720
them, that led them against the 
the free folk attack by the 

1992
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:38,920
Magnar of then. 
This is the man who led them 

1993
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,440
against Mance. 
This guy was elected Lord 

1994
01:38:41,440 --> 01:38:44,920
commander. 
It's well, he wasn't actually 

1995
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:46,080
elected Lord Commander yet. 
He. 

1996
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:47,800
Was about to be elected Lord 
Commander. 

1997
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:50,280
In this scene, this is the scene
where that comes. 

1998
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,880
This is Jano Slim trying to stop
that from happening. 

1999
01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:56,400
He's like desperate to prevent 
John from being Lord Commander. 

2000
01:38:56,520 --> 01:38:59,160
It doesn't work because the 
brothers know who he is. 

2001
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:00,160
They're like, they've seen his 
worth. 

2002
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:02,400
They're not going to judge him 
purely based on being a skin 

2003
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:03,560
changer. 
Especially because Ghost has 

2004
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:05,600
been good to them. 
Like it's been a boon. 

2005
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:07,840
Maybe they don't like it, maybe 
it was they were brought up to 

2006
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:12,200
distrust it, but the actual fact
of the matter is John and Ghost 

2007
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:16,320
have been good for the wall, the
good for their survival, 

2008
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:18,440
everything. 
So this is an example of a 

2009
01:39:18,440 --> 01:39:21,920
highly prejudice man expecting 
others to be as prejudice as he 

2010
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:24,920
is and backfires. 
It's very much like that scene 

2011
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:27,440
of No brother, Where art Thou, 
where you get this two mayoral 

2012
01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:32,000
candidates and the one guy Pappy
reveals he's in the KKK is he 

2013
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,440
thinks people are going to like 
that. 

2014
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:36,000
He's like, actually, I'm in this
organization that I don't have 

2015
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:38,720
to say the name, but you all 
know what I'm talking about. 

2016
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:42,640
And why would you vote for this 
group that has a black man in it

2017
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:44,240
when you could vote for? 
It's like he's expecting. 

2018
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:46,400
Everyone to be as. 
Racist as he is and he's like, 

2019
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:48,240
wait, you guys aren't as racist 
as me. 

2020
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:53,040
Yes, So it's very satisfyingly 
backfires on the racist some 

2021
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:54,560
like somewhat like it does here 
for sling. 

2022
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:56,880
Now this isn't race, but it's 
still prejudice. 

2023
01:39:56,880 --> 01:40:00,040
It's still like he's trying to 
other eyes him and it just 

2024
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:04,400
really doesn't work. 
So maybe like Gavin Gray Wolf, 

2025
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,920
if we cast our minds back to 
some of these ancient figures, 

2026
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:08,840
maybe this is what people did. 
Maybe this is how? 

2027
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:12,120
The cultural bias began, it was 
like, well, you got 2 political 

2028
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:15,840
factions and well, we can 
denigrate them because they're 

2029
01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:19,040
unnatural. 
And this is how we can get more 

2030
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,320
people on our side by casting 
them as villainous because they 

2031
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:24,440
have these unnatural powers. 
And over time that took hold, 

2032
01:40:24,440 --> 01:40:26,680
especially maybe when the Andols
came along and the Andols were 

2033
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:30,120
really terrified by all that. 
And we're ready to just more 

2034
01:40:30,120 --> 01:40:32,480
than willing to shun all that. 
You know, there's a form of 

2035
01:40:32,480 --> 01:40:35,040
power that they have no control 
over or they don't have access 

2036
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:36,600
to. 
They don't want that around. 

2037
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:41,400
It's very antithetical to their 
seven worshipping beliefs as 

2038
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:43,720
well. 
So yeah, maybe Gavin Gray Wolf 

2039
01:40:43,720 --> 01:40:49,520
was not villainous, but his 
enemies made everyone think that

2040
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,640
maybe Gavin Wolf was a Stark, 
like the Night King was a Stark 

2041
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:55,320
probably right? 
Maybe something like that, or 

2042
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:57,680
maybe just had Stark blood. 
And maybe this is like, you 

2043
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:03,520
know, a competing claims was the
core issue here, but propaganda 

2044
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:09,120
and politicization happened to 
make other things be broadcast 

2045
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:10,280
as the real reason they were 
fighting. 

2046
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:11,760
Like Nah, the Starks were just. 
Trying to. 

2047
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:15,160
Get rid of the unnatural 
beastlings. 

2048
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:16,560
But that's just something they 
said. 

2049
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:18,400
Maybe. 
Maybe the beastlings were 

2050
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:21,600
actually decent folk, at least 
at that time. 

2051
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:25,960
Who knows? 
So here's something we mentioned

2052
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:26,800
earlier. 
Let's get into it. 

2053
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:27,440
A. 
Little more deeply. 

2054
01:41:27,440 --> 01:41:29,040
While. 
Pondering Stannis. 

2055
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:33,680
'S offer of Val plus Winterfell,
which is admittedly an extremely

2056
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,640
tempting offer for John or for 
anyone really. 

2057
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:38,440
He's pondering, he's thinking, 
he's like imagining what that 

2058
01:41:38,440 --> 01:41:41,200
would be like. 
It seems like putting himself in

2059
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:43,160
that state of imagining that 
reverie. 

2060
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:46,200
It seems to kind of like open 
himself up for his abilities to 

2061
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:49,520
just do their thing. 
Quote He wanted it. 

2062
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,440
John knew then he wanted it as 
much as. 

2063
01:41:52,440 --> 01:41:56,280
He had ever wanted anything. 
I have always wanted it, he 

2064
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:59,760
thought guiltily. 
May the gods forgive me. 

2065
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:04,640
It was a hunger inside him, 
sharp as a dragonglass blade. 

2066
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:09,880
A hunger, he could feel it. 
It was food he needed pray. 

2067
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:14,960
A red deer that stank of fear, 
or a great elk, proud and 

2068
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:18,240
defiant. 
He needed to kill and fill his 

2069
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:21,560
belly with fresh meat and hot, 
dark blood. 

2070
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:24,480
His mouth began to water with a 
thought. 

2071
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:29,080
It was a long moment before he 
understood what was happening. 

2072
01:42:29,480 --> 01:42:32,360
When he did, he bolted to his 
feet. 

2073
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:36,360
Ghost Yes, this is the moment 
where Ghost returns to Castle 

2074
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:40,080
Black, where John had. 
Earlier we saw him part with him

2075
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:43,360
and this is when he returns. 
And this is happens to the very 

2076
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:45,760
important moment while he's 
thinking about Santis's offer. 

2077
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:51,240
But wow, like then we're talking
about like what dark animalistic

2078
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:54,960
qualities might come from living
a second life inside his wolf or

2079
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:56,880
from spending too much time 
inside their wolf. 

2080
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,920
If we're talking about a Rickon 
or, or or a brand, this is what 

2081
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:04,280
you get. 
This, this, I need to kill and 

2082
01:43:04,280 --> 01:43:07,680
eat blood and meat and all that.
And he's like, whoa, wait, what?

2083
01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:09,720
What's going on? 
What's happening here? 

2084
01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:12,880
Hey, what was I just thinking 
about? 

2085
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,440
So it's really neat how these 
two things bleed together and 

2086
01:43:15,440 --> 01:43:21,080
how maybe this is what helps him
realize that this is a hunger, 

2087
01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:24,480
not an honor. 
He's like, I want Winterfell. 

2088
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:27,880
I desire it, I lust for it. 
And then maybe that's what makes

2089
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:31,400
him realize that's a bad thing. 
I shouldn't be if I'm lusting 

2090
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:35,760
for it, it's not a good thing. 
I don't have a honorable desire 

2091
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:38,000
for it. 
I don't have a, you know, he 

2092
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:39,440
doesn't have a good feeling 
about it. 

2093
01:43:39,440 --> 01:43:41,840
It's a, it's a desire. 
It's, it's, it's inward, it's 

2094
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:43,040
uncontrollable. 
It's animalistic. 

2095
01:43:43,040 --> 01:43:45,360
And that's not, it's not what he
wants to feel. 

2096
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:48,200
He doesn't want his life to be 
guided by his animal instincts. 

2097
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:50,720
He doesn't want to be that kind 
of person. 

2098
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:52,600
He doesn't want to be driven. 
He wants to be driven by 

2099
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:56,440
calculation and rationality and,
and honor, especially honor 

2100
01:43:56,440 --> 01:43:58,480
above all those other things. 
And if he's not taking 

2101
01:43:58,480 --> 01:44:02,400
Winterfell for a noble reason, 
if inwardly he realizes that he 

2102
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:04,440
hungers for it, that's not good.
That's not he. 

2103
01:44:04,440 --> 01:44:07,400
He doesn't want to fulfill that 
because he's a good person. 

2104
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:11,280
And desiring something, lusting 
for something is something that 

2105
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:15,040
should be shut down in his mind.
Like, no, I'm not. 

2106
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:17,360
I don't lust for this. 
Or if I do, I'm not going to 

2107
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:19,160
allow myself to go through with 
it. 

2108
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:26,080
And it so it's it's neat that 
ghosts return his skin changer 

2109
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:28,000
bond being more fulfilled is 
teaching. 

2110
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:30,040
Him it was a teachable. 
Moment for him that John 

2111
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:33,320
recognized that was a really 
powerful moment and it's what 

2112
01:44:33,320 --> 01:44:36,800
enables him to say no. 
Stannis, I reject your offer as 

2113
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:40,440
badly as I want it. 
I want it for the wrong reasons.

2114
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,120
And we'll see a bit like I said,
or we'll see a bit of an example

2115
01:44:43,120 --> 01:44:46,160
similar to this in Ari's 
experience too, when when the 

2116
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:48,400
realization is much different, 
but it's the the state of mind 

2117
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:51,320
they're in that causes them to 
sort of accidentally slip into 

2118
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:53,640
the wolf dream. 
So again, just to summarize some

2119
01:44:53,640 --> 01:44:55,600
of the questions with John, what
what's going to happen with his 

2120
01:44:55,600 --> 01:45:00,560
powers after his second life and
resurrection by Melisandre, 

2121
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:03,280
presumably. 
And how will his personality 

2122
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:05,640
change, which will also in turn 
affect how he uses his 

2123
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:08,440
abilities, like what he thinks 
is ethical, what he's willing to

2124
01:45:08,440 --> 01:45:12,480
do, what's honorable and what 
isn't might change in his mind. 

2125
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:16,360
Also, Melisandre is has shown 
the ability to interfere with 

2126
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:18,600
his connection. 
Remember when he's like, don't, 

2127
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:21,000
don't talk to ghosts like that. 
He, you know, he, he doesn't 

2128
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:22,920
necessarily trust you yet. 
And she's like ghost and ghost 

2129
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:26,840
comes to her and is very loving 
and, and like dog like and 

2130
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:28,560
John's like, OK, how did you do 
that? 

2131
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:31,320
And he's like ghost come back 
and he won't do it. 

2132
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:34,400
He's a ghost doesn't obey and 
he's like, well, that's weird. 

2133
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:38,320
Melisandre's powers are 
interfering with his connection 

2134
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:42,040
to ghost. 
So this tells us that her 

2135
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:44,760
abilities can interfere with 
skin changing or can do 

2136
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:48,080
something like we know she we 
saw her just blow or L out of 

2137
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:51,200
the air, just turn him to a ball
of flame inside his eagle. 

2138
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:52,640
And it was and it was from 
within. 

2139
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:56,720
He felt like his soul was 
burning as if the magic, the 

2140
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:58,160
skin changer part is what 
mattered. 

2141
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:00,320
It's almost like she couldn't 
have done that to a regular 

2142
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:02,360
eagle. 
I'm not saying that for sure, 

2143
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:05,160
but it kind of like the way it's
described. 

2144
01:46:05,160 --> 01:46:08,000
It was the skin changer part 
that in the person in within the

2145
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,000
eagle is what caught fire. 
It's kind of the way he wrote 

2146
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:12,840
it. 
So I wonder about that is what 

2147
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:14,160
else can? 
Melisandre do what? 

2148
01:46:14,160 --> 01:46:16,800
Else can she? 
Can she interfere in other ways?

2149
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,640
Can she help in other ways? 
She does offer to help John with

2150
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:23,040
some things the offer comes with
though. 

2151
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:26,360
But along with me teaching you, 
I'm going to bang you and make a

2152
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:32,400
shadow baby, which he's like, 
yeah, I pass, you know, so. 

2153
01:46:33,480 --> 01:46:35,800
That's it wasn't a completely 
straightforward. 

2154
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:39,040
Offer. 
Let's move on to Aria. 

2155
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:42,280
Here's what appears to. 
Be Aria's first wolf dream. 

2156
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:45,600
Quote. 
She must have slept, though she 

2157
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:47,760
never remembered closing her 
eyes. 

2158
01:46:48,200 --> 01:46:53,000
She dreamt a wolf was howling, 
and the sound was so terrible 

2159
01:46:53,240 --> 01:46:57,280
that it woke her at once. 
Arya sat up on her palette with 

2160
01:46:57,280 --> 01:46:59,600
her heart thumping. 
Hot Pie, wake up. 

2161
01:47:00,040 --> 01:47:04,480
She scrambled to her feet. 
Woth Gendry, didn't you hear? 

2162
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:09,200
She pulled on a boot. 
All around her, men and boys 

2163
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:11,200
stirred and crawled from their 
pallets. 

2164
01:47:11,360 --> 01:47:13,760
What's wrong? 
Hot Pie asked. 

2165
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:17,520
Hear what? 
Gendry wanted to know Ari had a 

2166
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:18,640
bad. 
Dream. 

2167
01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:21,520
Someone said no, I heard it, she
insisted. 

2168
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:24,680
A wolf. 
Ari has wolves in his head, 

2169
01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:30,520
Sneered Lami. 
Pretty much though Lami, Rude 

2170
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:34,240
but man accurate has wolves in 
her head. 

2171
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:35,600
Yep. 
Well one at least. 

2172
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:39,760
Must have slept but never 
remembered closing her eyes. 

2173
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:42,280
No one else. 
Heard the wolf like John in 

2174
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:46,120
Ghost in that opening scene. 
Very similar, right? 

2175
01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:47,880
I don't think she did fall 
asleep. 

2176
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:53,400
She just doesn't know how to 
describe the sensation she just 

2177
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:54,520
had. 
She's like, well, what? 

2178
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:56,280
I mean, she's not going to go 
oh, skin changing. 

2179
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:58,640
I must be a ward. 
There you go. 

2180
01:47:58,640 --> 01:48:00,680
That explains it. 
No, she has no idea. 

2181
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:02,400
She's like, what? 
Why did no one else hear it? 

2182
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,320
But she's so sure she heard it 
and she did. 

2183
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:07,320
She's right. 
But it wasn't heard through her 

2184
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:08,520
ears. 
It was in her mind. 

2185
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:09,960
So. 
It really was. 

2186
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:13,080
A wolf in her head. 
Now she has a lot of wolf 

2187
01:48:13,080 --> 01:48:14,680
dreams. 
We could do a whole episode of 

2188
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:16,120
just. 
On Aria's Wolf. 

2189
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:17,520
Dreams, she has the most of 
them. 

2190
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,680
I mean most that we see Bran 
maybe actually has more, but in 

2191
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:24,120
terms of described on Paige, 
there's so many. 

2192
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:26,120
I mean she also has way more 
chapters than Bran so. 

2193
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,760
There's that. 
She has another one later in A 

2194
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:32,600
Clash of Kings. 
Nothing of description, it's 

2195
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:34,320
just a. 
Wolf Dream with just vague 

2196
01:48:34,680 --> 01:48:38,360
hunting, chasing and Jo and 
Jockin wakes her up and she's 

2197
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:42,440
like oh there's another one in A
Storm of Swords right after she 

2198
01:48:42,440 --> 01:48:44,640
flees Harrenhal with Hot Pie and
Gendry. 

2199
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,520
Some of the Brett Bloody Mummers
come after her and Nymeria 

2200
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:49,640
kills. 
Some of them for. 

2201
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:52,840
Her for her or because of our 
like where is the how is the 

2202
01:48:52,840 --> 01:48:55,800
bond exactly working here? 
Is is did Nymeria get the 

2203
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:59,280
message from Aria's subconscious
that she needs help and Nymeria 

2204
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:01,880
showed up? 
Or is Aria just so powerful that

2205
01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:06,200
she's able to control her wolf 
without being super conscious of

2206
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:09,400
what she's doing? 
I don't know, but it's awfully 

2207
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:11,520
direct. 
Like there's four brave 

2208
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,920
companions coming for her and 
Nymeria and her wolves slaughter

2209
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:17,520
them. 
After that, it's like a 

2210
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:20,040
recurring montage. 
Like a bunch. 

2211
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:22,680
Of Ari's chapters, just like 
start with just like a paragraph

2212
01:49:22,680 --> 01:49:25,320
or just two sentences about she 
had another wolf dream, she 

2213
01:49:25,320 --> 01:49:26,600
wakes up. 
It's usually very vague. 

2214
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:31,320
It's just again, just wolf 
stuff, hunting, smelling, 

2215
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:34,560
sniffing, leading her pack, 
howlings doing wolf stuff. 

2216
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:37,080
It's not specific. 
You don't see people, you don't 

2217
01:49:37,080 --> 01:49:40,280
get names just, but it's very 
frequent, very constant. 

2218
01:49:40,560 --> 01:49:43,760
There's other dreams that that 
Ari has that we're not sure if 

2219
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:46,200
they're wolf dreams. 
Like maybe she's remembering one

2220
01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:49,000
from before. 
It wasn't what she just had. 

2221
01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:51,120
Like she didn't wake up and 
isn't remembering a wolf dream, 

2222
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:56,360
but like later in the day she's 
remembering something that she 

2223
01:49:56,360 --> 01:50:02,360
dreamt of maybe a week of before
and it might be just echoes from

2224
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:04,920
Nymeria. 
Her power. 

2225
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:07,400
It's like what Jojen said. 
Her power is so strong it's 

2226
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:10,080
trying hard to manifest. 
It's constantly seeking out its 

2227
01:50:10,080 --> 01:50:13,640
other half, more so than anyone 
else except Bran. 

2228
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:17,720
Here's how, or here's an example
of. 

2229
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:19,120
How she perceives it. 
Quote. 

2230
01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:23,360
That was the best part. 
The dreaming she dreamed. 

2231
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:27,560
Of wolves most every night. 
A great pack of wolves with her 

2232
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:30,400
at the head. 
She was bigger than any of them,

2233
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:36,040
stronger, swifter, faster. 
She could outrun horses and out 

2234
01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:39,600
fight lions. 
When she bared her teeth, even 

2235
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:43,520
men would run from her. 
Her belly was never empty long 

2236
01:50:43,720 --> 01:50:48,320
and her fur kept her warm even 
when the wind was blowing cold 

2237
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:51,440
and her brothers and sisters 
were with her. 

2238
01:50:51,720 --> 01:50:55,880
Many and more. 
Of them, fierce and terrible and

2239
01:50:55,880 --> 01:50:58,640
hers. 
They would never leave her. 

2240
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:02,880
It goes from like amazing and 
intriguing to sad with that. 

2241
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:05,800
Last line, they would never 
leave her like that's this is a 

2242
01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:08,280
huge shadow hanging over all 
this is Arya. 

2243
01:51:08,280 --> 01:51:10,360
Like all the rest of her family,
they're separated from each 

2244
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:13,160
other. 
But the wolf dreams are a source

2245
01:51:13,160 --> 01:51:15,920
of strength and they remind her 
of who she is, which is very 

2246
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:19,320
important for her because Arya 
of among all the characters, has

2247
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:23,680
identity struggles or at least 
has become other people to 

2248
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:26,200
survive. 
And then now she's specifically 

2249
01:51:26,200 --> 01:51:29,520
being taught how to be other 
people as a means of advantage 

2250
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:32,000
in life or whatever the faceless
men want from her. 

2251
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:35,960
So it's been a constant part of 
her story of changing her name, 

2252
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:37,680
changing her identity, 
pretending to be someone else. 

2253
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:40,680
But constantly throughout all 
this, the wolf dreams have been 

2254
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:42,520
there, reminding her who she 
really is. 

2255
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:45,480
And she would they would never 
leave her, right? 

2256
01:51:45,480 --> 01:51:46,600
She's always part of it. 
And. 

2257
01:51:46,600 --> 01:51:48,520
She. 
Understands even if she doesn't 

2258
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:52,280
fully clock what's happening, 
she understands that her pack is

2259
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:55,080
hers and this is a model for her
family. 

2260
01:51:55,080 --> 01:51:57,080
The pack. 
The pack survives. 

2261
01:51:57,520 --> 01:51:58,920
This is it. 
It's happening. 

2262
01:51:58,920 --> 01:52:01,440
This pack is really powerful 
because they're a pack. 

2263
01:52:01,440 --> 01:52:05,320
They're not individuals, and 
Aria, of all of them, is the 

2264
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:06,520
most isolated. 
The most. 

2265
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:10,000
Individual so maybe? 
She most of any of them needs 

2266
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:12,160
that lessons like yeah, you can 
go back. 

2267
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:15,200
You can be reunited with your 
family by the way out. 

2268
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:19,040
Fight lions in this quote really
did. 

2269
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:20,920
Is that something? 
That she experienced. 

2270
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:23,080
As in a wolf dream, like Oh no. 
Or she's talking about 

2271
01:52:23,080 --> 01:52:25,440
Lannisters. 
Yeah, it's a Lannister I I think

2272
01:52:25,440 --> 01:52:29,120
definitely meaning towards Aria.
'S future and the idea of her 

2273
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:31,720
fighting off the Lannisters and 
thinking of the Lannisters as 

2274
01:52:31,720 --> 01:52:34,000
being like their their predators
etcetera. 

2275
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,800
And it's interesting too, how 
Nymeria knows things that Arya 

2276
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:39,840
knows. 
Like when Nymeria finds 

2277
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:43,440
Catelyn's body, she's like get 
up, run with it. 

2278
01:52:43,440 --> 01:52:45,720
She has these thoughts like you 
can get up and run with this bee

2279
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:48,360
with the pack. 
It's very wolf like. 

2280
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:53,400
But it's obviously would only 
happen with Arya's persona being

2281
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:54,800
part of this. 
Like, I don't think that 

2282
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:55,880
Nymeria. 
The Wolf. 

2283
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:59,120
Alone has these perceptions, 
maybe recognizes Catelyn as a 

2284
01:52:59,120 --> 01:53:02,600
friend, but wouldn't have these 
thoughts of you know who she is 

2285
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:06,800
and this identity stuff. 
So yeah, that's interesting. 

2286
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:10,960
So this is another example of of
the bond being a two way St. 

2287
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:15,160
And again, if I return to the 
example of when she's pouring 

2288
01:53:15,160 --> 01:53:20,320
drinks for the Faceless man and 
just slips into Nymeria because 

2289
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:22,600
she's bored and her mind is 
wandering. 

2290
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:26,760
And again, it kind of gets us at
the like the mind state you need

2291
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:29,600
to be to to slip. 
Into to do that change. 

2292
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:31,520
Something that she hasn't 
figured out how to activate on 

2293
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,680
her own, like John, but I 
suspect it's coming. 

2294
01:53:35,080 --> 01:53:39,360
They will learn how to do that. 
This is like Aria is slowly 

2295
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:42,200
getting enlightened on this, the
realization of what she is. 

2296
01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:44,920
She's so stubborn though. 
So stubborn. 

2297
01:53:45,240 --> 01:53:47,360
This is an incredibly stubborn 
person. 

2298
01:53:48,120 --> 01:53:50,000
I do think she's more powerful 
than John. 

2299
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:54,200
They both lack a teacher, but 
she doesn't even have someone 

2300
01:53:54,200 --> 01:53:55,920
telling her what she is. 
John has had people be like 

2301
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:59,000
you're a warg, Vermeer's like 
you're a warg, Evans like you're

2302
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:00,600
a warg. 
People are like you're a 

2303
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:03,200
beastling. 
John Slint is called that to his

2304
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:06,960
face, right? 
And when John, even though that 

2305
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:10,160
backfired, when Slint said that 
people didn't say no, he's not. 

2306
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:13,040
They just said we don't care as 
much as you. 

2307
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:15,480
This isn't such a big deal. 
It's not a reason to hate him. 

2308
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:17,400
They didn't deny it though, 
right. 

2309
01:54:17,720 --> 01:54:22,400
So he at least has people 
telling him he's that and that 

2310
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:25,240
can help him come to terms with 
it and he can slowly accept that

2311
01:54:25,240 --> 01:54:27,800
in his own mind. 
He he has these experiences 

2312
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:29,760
through ghost. 
It's it's harder and harder to 

2313
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:31,440
deny. 
Even though he doesn't want it, 

2314
01:54:31,440 --> 01:54:33,960
it's there. 
Aria does not have this. 

2315
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:35,640
Aria doesn't have people telling
her what she is. 

2316
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:37,920
No one's ever told Aria she's a 
skin changer. 

2317
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:40,720
The closest we got was Lami 
saying you have wolves in your 

2318
01:54:40,720 --> 01:54:42,120
head. 
Right? 

2319
01:54:42,440 --> 01:54:44,520
The Faceless men haven't taught 
her about this. 

2320
01:54:44,520 --> 01:54:47,280
They're not like you need to get
rid of this power. 

2321
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:48,960
They don't know she has it, I 
don't think. 

2322
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:54,440
And she doesn't have the 
corroborating evidence that both

2323
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:56,880
Bran and John have had. 
What I mean by that is they have

2324
01:54:56,880 --> 01:55:01,000
seen things in their dreams that
they then they later see with 

2325
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:02,640
their eyes and ears. 
They can. 

2326
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:08,400
John saw Orrell attack Ghost and
then he saw a ghost, you know, 

2327
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,960
12 hours later, a day later with
the exact wound that he saw in 

2328
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:13,840
that dream. 
OK, so I saw something that 

2329
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:15,640
really happens. 
It was very convincing. 

2330
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:19,040
Bran has similar experiences 
where he sees something through 

2331
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:21,240
the wolf's eyes. 
Well, Bran is different. 

2332
01:55:21,240 --> 01:55:24,040
He's just he's got a bunch of 
examples of proof here. 

2333
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:27,760
Bran at one point thinks though 
Jojen told it true, I am a 

2334
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:29,760
beastling. 
He thinks of himself as a 

2335
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:32,800
beastling, which is pretty 
negative, but still, we're not 

2336
01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:35,160
on brand. 
Let's keep it focused on on on 

2337
01:55:35,160 --> 01:55:38,320
Aria here. 
Aria's never corroborated 

2338
01:55:38,320 --> 01:55:41,080
anything she's seen in a wolf 
dream with her own two eyes 

2339
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:44,200
because she's so far away from 
Nymeria, hasn't seen Nymeria 

2340
01:55:44,200 --> 01:55:47,240
since very early in Book 1. 
So her experience does not 

2341
01:55:47,240 --> 01:55:51,560
include the corroborating 
evidence of wolf dreams seen 

2342
01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:53,400
through her eyes, her regular 
eyes. 

2343
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:56,160
So that's very different. 
On top of that, the Faceless Men

2344
01:55:56,160 --> 01:55:59,520
are actively teaching her to 
forget who she is. 

2345
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:03,200
She's like, they're like don't 
be Arya, which means don't be a 

2346
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:05,120
Stark, which means don't be a 
skin changer. 

2347
01:56:05,400 --> 01:56:09,120
But it's not working. 
They're they're unable to teach 

2348
01:56:09,120 --> 01:56:12,400
her to not be Arya. 
Not only does she refuse to give

2349
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:14,440
up Needle, she still has wolf 
dreams. 

2350
01:56:14,440 --> 01:56:15,760
And I think that's more 
important. 

2351
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:17,280
Needle. 
A big deal is made out of 

2352
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:20,080
Needle. 
But let me explain why I think 

2353
01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:21,680
the wolf dreams are a much 
bigger deal. 

2354
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:25,840
Starting off with this quote, I 
dreamed I was a wolf again. 

2355
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:30,400
She could remember the smells. 
Best of all, trees and earth, 

2356
01:56:30,680 --> 01:56:35,960
her pack brothers, the scents of
horse and deer and man, each 

2357
01:56:35,960 --> 01:56:40,640
different from the others, and 
the sharp, acrid Tang of fear, 

2358
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:44,720
always the same. 
Some nights the wolf dreams were

2359
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:49,360
so vivid that she could hear her
brothers howling even as she 

2360
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:54,000
woke, and once Brea had claimed 
that she was growling in her 

2361
01:56:54,000 --> 01:56:56,760
sleep as she thrashed beneath 
the covers. 

2362
01:56:57,480 --> 01:57:01,960
She thought that was some stupid
lie, till Talia said it too. 

2363
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:06,360
I should not be dreaming wolf 
dreams, the girl told herself. 

2364
01:57:06,760 --> 01:57:11,440
I am a cat now, not a wolf. 
I am Cat of the canals. 

2365
01:57:11,640 --> 01:57:14,360
The wolf dreams belonged to 
Arya. 

2366
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:17,960
Of how Stark. 
Try as she might, though, she 

2367
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:22,320
could not rid herself of Arya. 
We all recognize that hiding 

2368
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:24,480
needle was a definitive sign 
that she would. 

2369
01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:25,800
Never give up her Stark 
identity. 

2370
01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:27,760
That was one part of her that 
she wasn't willing to give up, 

2371
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:29,560
and that she would reclaim it 
one day. 

2372
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:32,920
That Needle would be symbolic of
her getting back on the journey 

2373
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:35,760
to be a Stark. 
Her reclaimed Stark identity is 

2374
01:57:35,760 --> 01:57:38,080
tied to that. 
But Needle isn't anchoring her 

2375
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:40,040
to herself. 
She doesn't think of Needle. 

2376
01:57:40,120 --> 01:57:42,080
She's like, Oh yeah, I got that 
sword hidden away. 

2377
01:57:42,080 --> 01:57:45,160
I'm going to get that one day. 
No, she dreams of Nymeria almost

2378
01:57:45,160 --> 01:57:48,240
every night. 
Nymeria is her stark anchor, not

2379
01:57:48,240 --> 01:57:50,240
Needle. 
Needle is symbolic of it, but 

2380
01:57:50,240 --> 01:57:55,000
it's not the active bond in her 
dreams almost every night and 

2381
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:57,880
sometimes when she's awake, 
reminding her of who she really 

2382
01:57:57,880 --> 01:57:59,320
is. 
Reminding of her of her 

2383
01:57:59,320 --> 01:58:02,120
heritage, of her ancestry and of
her powers that are very 

2384
01:58:02,120 --> 01:58:03,920
different than what the Faces 
men are trying to teach her. 

2385
01:58:04,840 --> 01:58:07,080
Even from so far away. 
Even though Ari doesn't 

2386
01:58:07,080 --> 01:58:09,680
understand what's happening, 
it's happening. 

2387
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:11,320
She doesn't perceive it 
correctly. 

2388
01:58:11,320 --> 01:58:14,200
She doesn't understand. 
She's too young, but she 

2389
01:58:14,200 --> 01:58:16,880
understands enough of it to 
reach this conclusion that she 

2390
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:19,360
cannot get rid of Aria and she's
never going to. 

2391
01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:24,280
In fact, it could be some sort 
of epiphany regarding Nymeria 

2392
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:26,720
and or skills that sparks a 
breakup with the Faceless Men 

2393
01:58:26,720 --> 01:58:29,000
because that's coming at some 
point she's going to break up 

2394
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:31,320
with them. 
She's going to who knows how. 

2395
01:58:31,320 --> 01:58:34,000
Who knows why exactly the the 
impetus, the catalyst, but this 

2396
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:35,840
could be it. 
The fact that she's like, Nah, 

2397
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:38,880
I'm still Arya. 
No, nothing's ever going to get 

2398
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:41,600
rid of this. 
I'm Arya Stark, that's who I am.

2399
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:44,640
I'm a wolf. 
I'm not a faceless person. 

2400
01:58:44,640 --> 01:58:46,440
I'm I'm not a person with no 
identity. 

2401
01:58:46,440 --> 01:58:47,680
You're not going to take that 
from me. 

2402
01:58:47,680 --> 01:58:50,840
Or maybe she discovers we're 
doing some evil stuff and that 

2403
01:58:50,840 --> 01:58:52,040
makes her turn on them. 
Whatever. 

2404
01:58:52,040 --> 01:58:53,840
Some things they're going to 
have a breakup. 

2405
01:58:54,200 --> 01:58:57,320
And Nymeria is, I think, a 
bigger part of reclaiming her 

2406
01:58:57,320 --> 01:58:59,720
identity being what she is, what
she's meant to be. 

2407
01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:01,840
The needle. 
The needle is part of that too. 

2408
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:03,320
It's not like one or the other 
kind of thing. 

2409
01:59:03,320 --> 01:59:06,040
It's a why not both thing. 
But personally, I rank the wolf 

2410
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:09,240
dreams way higher than the 
hidden sword and the the 

2411
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:11,280
growling in her sleep, the great
detail. 

2412
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:14,640
It's again, it's just another, 
it's more evidence of how that 

2413
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:16,480
the wolf bond like they're big, 
they're merging. 

2414
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:18,520
Their brains really are kind of 
merged in some way. 

2415
01:59:18,520 --> 01:59:21,640
Like she is being Nymeria and 
when she wakes up and she can 

2416
01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:24,160
still hear the howling, that's 
because the bond is still there.

2417
01:59:24,160 --> 01:59:29,000
She's still like connected to 
Nymeria until like she wakes up 

2418
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:31,280
in the shock of it all. 
And then it falls off and she's 

2419
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:34,360
no longer in that correct like 
mind state to maintain the bond.

2420
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:37,200
Or again, I'm just don't exactly
know how to describe it, but I 

2421
01:59:37,200 --> 01:59:38,240
think you understand what I'm 
saying. 

2422
01:59:38,240 --> 01:59:40,600
And if need to, because she's 
like embracing it. 

2423
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:42,240
A part of her is embracing 
what's happening. 

2424
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:46,760
In some ways it's more it's 
Rickon like because she's doing 

2425
01:59:46,760 --> 01:59:48,520
it, She's not like turned off by
it. 

2426
01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:52,080
She's not thinking of it as skin
changing because if she did, she

2427
01:59:52,080 --> 01:59:54,680
might remember old Ned's stories
and be turned off be like, no, 

2428
01:59:54,680 --> 01:59:56,560
this is bad. 
Like I was taught this is evil. 

2429
01:59:56,560 --> 01:59:59,200
But but it's sort of like her 
stubbornness is both protecting 

2430
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:01,080
her. 
The ignorance is almost helping 

2431
02:00:01,080 --> 02:00:02,960
her a little bit. 
Like if she she, it'd be good 

2432
02:00:02,960 --> 02:00:04,880
for her to admit what she is and
embrace it. 

2433
02:00:05,400 --> 02:00:08,920
But at least she's not like 
thinking of herself as bad or 

2434
02:00:08,920 --> 02:00:11,080
tainted like Bran is. 
Because he's like, I'm a 

2435
02:00:11,080 --> 02:00:12,720
beastling, you know, he's 
negative. 

2436
02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:13,920
He's very negative about 
himself. 

2437
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:15,280
He calls himself Bran the 
broken. 

2438
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:20,040
Like all these these things that
are make him, that make him feel

2439
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:22,640
like he's less than human. 
Aria isn't as bothered by that. 

2440
02:00:23,120 --> 02:00:25,960
She's just a little more self 
assured that way and a little 

2441
02:00:25,960 --> 02:00:27,000
more comfortable with these 
things. 

2442
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:30,320
But also, still, despite all 
that, she wants to be reunited 

2443
02:00:30,320 --> 02:00:31,600
with her family. 
She wants to be a Stark. 

2444
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:32,360
She. 
Wants to go back. 

2445
02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:37,400
But also like her brother, maybe
like Rickon, maybe like Rob. 

2446
02:00:38,240 --> 02:00:43,080
She likes the wolf dreams 
because the alternative are 

2447
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:47,680
human nightmares. 
Quote The wolf dreams were the 

2448
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:52,240
good ones in the wolf dreams. 
She was swift and strong, 

2449
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:55,400
running down her prey with her 
pack at her heels. 

2450
02:00:55,880 --> 02:01:00,000
It was the other dream she 
hated, the one where she had two

2451
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:04,200
feet instead of four. 
And that one she was always 

2452
02:01:04,280 --> 02:01:08,080
looking for her mother, 
stumbling through a wasted land 

2453
02:01:08,080 --> 02:01:12,720
of mud and blood and fire. 
It was always raining in that 

2454
02:01:12,720 --> 02:01:17,160
dream, and she could hear her 
mother screaming, but a monster 

2455
02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:20,720
with a dog's head would not let 
her go save her. 

2456
02:01:21,160 --> 02:01:24,680
In that dream. 
She was always weeping like a 

2457
02:01:24,680 --> 02:01:28,080
frightened little girl. 
Cats never weep, she told 

2458
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:32,800
herself, no more than wolves do.
It's just a stupid dream. 

2459
02:01:33,080 --> 02:01:35,400
Clearly the monster is Sandor 
and she's remembering the Red 

2460
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:36,640
Wedding. 
That's pretty straightforward. 

2461
02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:37,880
And she? 
Remember, she had found her 

2462
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:40,200
body, her mother's body with 
Nymeria. 

2463
02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:43,960
And Arya has all these pieces in
her, in the in her head about 

2464
02:01:43,960 --> 02:01:45,720
all the puzzle pieces to what 
just happened. 

2465
02:01:46,040 --> 02:01:47,400
You know, she knows what Nymeria
saw. 

2466
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:51,520
She knows what she saw. 
And she's got news about the Red

2467
02:01:51,520 --> 02:01:53,760
Wedding from elsewhere. 
Rumors of all over like that 

2468
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:55,520
spread like wildfire around 
Westwood. 

2469
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:57,640
So she has all the she has the 
corroborating evidence even, you

2470
02:01:57,640 --> 02:01:59,280
know, she was actually there, 
unlike some of these other 

2471
02:01:59,280 --> 02:02:01,520
situations. 
She was at the Red Wedding, at 

2472
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:02,920
least outdoors and saw a lot of 
it. 

2473
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:05,560
And but you can see her 
stubbornness here. 

2474
02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:07,680
She's like, no, I like the wolf 
dreams more. 

2475
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:09,760
I want to be like that. 
I don't want to weep. 

2476
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:11,400
I don't want to be a frightened 
little girl. 

2477
02:02:12,080 --> 02:02:16,600
This is part of her stubbornness
and her strength, but it's also 

2478
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:18,360
just very human. 
Like who wouldn't want to have 

2479
02:02:18,360 --> 02:02:22,400
dreams where you're powerful and
strong and and doing great 

2480
02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:25,120
things and making your own 
destiny? 

2481
02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:28,080
Versus. 
Screaming and weeping and. 

2482
02:02:28,080 --> 02:02:31,040
Your mother dying and monsters. 
With dog heads and yeah, like. 

2483
02:02:31,040 --> 02:02:32,800
That's not a good dream. 
It's trauma, of course. 

2484
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:36,520
Like regardless of what's going 
on, what the deeper meaning is, 

2485
02:02:37,240 --> 02:02:41,080
we all want to have good dreams.
As compared to. 

2486
02:02:41,080 --> 02:02:42,600
Nightmares. 
That's one of the most 

2487
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:43,880
straightforward things I could 
possibly. 

2488
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:45,000
Say. 
Right. 

2489
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:48,960
So Aria's. 
But the effect of that is that 

2490
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:53,200
it's pushing her more into her 
dreams, more into her wolf side,

2491
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:58,680
which, as we've heard from 
people who know better, you need

2492
02:02:58,680 --> 02:03:02,040
to maintain your humanity. 
Don't become too much like the. 

2493
02:03:02,040 --> 02:03:04,440
Wolf. 
Or well, you'll be too much like

2494
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:06,880
a wolf. 
You know wolves are savage and 

2495
02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:09,240
violent. 
You know whether they can't be 

2496
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:11,440
tamed, right? 
Like like Hagan said, it's a 

2497
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:12,680
marriage. 
You're not, you don't, you're 

2498
02:03:12,680 --> 02:03:14,280
not control. 
You don't tame the wolf. 

2499
02:03:14,960 --> 02:03:19,640
You're married to it and it will
make you part of like it is. 

2500
02:03:21,080 --> 02:03:23,480
So she doesn't seem to remember 
Old Nan's stories like Bran 

2501
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:24,800
does. 
And so she's not thinking of. 

2502
02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:28,160
Herself as evil, which is an 
interesting exception and an 

2503
02:03:28,160 --> 02:03:29,960
interesting difference here, at 
least for now. 

2504
02:03:29,960 --> 02:03:32,840
Maybe she'll learn and that'll 
make her feel bad about it, but 

2505
02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:36,040
we'll see. 
Now we of course with John we 

2506
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:38,000
have that question about death 
and skin changing how it's going

2507
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:41,520
to affect his powers. 
For Arya we have a similar but 

2508
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:43,400
lesser question. 
Like what is her faceless man 

2509
02:03:43,400 --> 02:03:47,360
training going to do to her 
abilities? 

2510
02:03:47,360 --> 02:03:49,680
Like will it give her more 
focus, more discipline? 

2511
02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:54,040
Will she be able to spin some of
that into what she needs to be a

2512
02:03:54,040 --> 02:03:57,080
better skin changer? 
Will it, will it impair it? 

2513
02:03:57,280 --> 02:03:59,880
I kind of doubt it, but maybe 
just curious of the effect. 

2514
02:03:59,880 --> 02:04:02,440
Like she's basically multi 
classed if you want to look at 

2515
02:04:02,440 --> 02:04:04,080
it in a role-playing game 
situation. 

2516
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:07,200
And here's a curious example 
where the faceless men's magic 

2517
02:04:07,200 --> 02:04:09,920
or alchemy or chemistry, 
whatever word I don't know what 

2518
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:12,720
fits here. 
Her dreams seem to be impacted 

2519
02:04:12,720 --> 02:04:16,400
by the potion, the blindness 
potion that they gave her quote.

2520
02:04:16,680 --> 02:04:20,200
She dreamed she was a wolf 
again, but it was different from

2521
02:04:20,200 --> 02:04:21,160
the other. 
Dreams. 

2522
02:04:21,400 --> 02:04:26,800
In this dream, she had no pack. 
She prowled alone, bounding over

2523
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:31,320
rooftops and patting silently 
beside the banks of a canal, 

2524
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:33,840
stalking shadows through the 
fog. 

2525
02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:37,920
When she woke the next morning, 
she was blind. 

2526
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:39,080
This one. 
'S. 

2527
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,440
Different. 
She's dreaming of herself as a 

2528
02:04:42,440 --> 02:04:46,840
wolf. 
But not as Nymeria and she still

2529
02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:48,640
feels like it's a wolf dream it.
Has that. 

2530
02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:51,760
Vibe but she thinks specifically
it was different from the other 

2531
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:54,760
dreams and being alone instead 
of part of the pack. 

2532
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:59,360
That's very interesting. 
Is this like a a vision of 

2533
02:04:59,360 --> 02:05:02,440
herself being separated of of 
the path that she's? 

2534
02:05:02,440 --> 02:05:05,360
Currently on rather. 
Than the path that leads to 

2535
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:08,520
rejoining her pack. 
Because prowling alone, bounding

2536
02:05:08,520 --> 02:05:11,240
over rooftops, that sounds like 
a faceless man. 

2537
02:05:11,720 --> 02:05:13,480
This is what what an assassin 
does. 

2538
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:18,160
Someone stalks their prey from 
rooftops and by the canal and 

2539
02:05:18,160 --> 02:05:21,280
through the fog, rather than in 
an environment where a wolf 

2540
02:05:21,280 --> 02:05:24,520
would exist, like the forest or 
or the riverlands or something 

2541
02:05:24,520 --> 02:05:27,160
like that. 
So this is really interesting 

2542
02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:28,920
and it's a unique thing for 
Aria. 

2543
02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:31,320
Even Bran doesn't really have 
this. 

2544
02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:35,920
At least we haven't seen it. 
And she's also the only Stark 

2545
02:05:36,280 --> 02:05:40,520
besides Bran who has skin 
changed into a different animal.

2546
02:05:41,280 --> 02:05:45,600
She's used at least one cat. 
The cat followed her when she 

2547
02:05:45,600 --> 02:05:48,200
was blind, Followed her now. 
Did the cat follow her because 

2548
02:05:48,200 --> 02:05:49,320
she's blind now? 
It's a cat. 

2549
02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:51,400
Cats are weird that way 
sometimes cats just like a 

2550
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:53,880
person. 
But this really feels like the 

2551
02:05:53,880 --> 02:05:57,560
cat followed her because of some
connection that Arya, like her 

2552
02:05:57,560 --> 02:06:01,320
subconscious, reached out, 
connected with this cat. 

2553
02:06:01,320 --> 02:06:04,520
She doesn't fully realize what 
she's done, but she used the 

2554
02:06:04,520 --> 02:06:06,120
cat. 
She looked through its eyes to 

2555
02:06:06,120 --> 02:06:07,800
be able to see what the kindly 
man was doing. 

2556
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:11,400
And there's another scene where 
she's in disguise as the ugly 

2557
02:06:11,400 --> 02:06:14,880
little girl. 
And the Seal Castle, the trained

2558
02:06:14,880 --> 02:06:18,960
seal recognizes her even though 
she's wearing a face. 

2559
02:06:18,960 --> 02:06:20,240
This isn't just a regular 
disguise. 

2560
02:06:20,240 --> 02:06:22,360
She's got one of the magical 
faces on. 

2561
02:06:22,840 --> 02:06:27,000
So is that supernatural? 
Is the Seal just smell her? 

2562
02:06:27,400 --> 02:06:30,880
I doubt it. 
It's a crowded Plaza with lots 

2563
02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:34,200
of people at the Wharf. 
Like, can the seal really smell 

2564
02:06:34,200 --> 02:06:35,480
her? 
I mean, she's not just a lot 

2565
02:06:35,480 --> 02:06:38,560
like, she's like standing right 
next to her feels supernatural, 

2566
02:06:38,560 --> 02:06:42,400
feels like Ari has reached out 
to this animal because they've 

2567
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:44,000
got like a little bit of a 
connection and the. 

2568
02:06:44,000 --> 02:06:46,720
Animal is like, well, that's. 
How I know who you are, your, 

2569
02:06:46,720 --> 02:06:49,280
your, what your face looks like 
is irrelevant. 

2570
02:06:49,280 --> 02:06:51,960
I can feel the bond. 
I can feel the, the skin changer

2571
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:53,480
magic. 
Of course, who knows how the 

2572
02:06:53,480 --> 02:06:57,400
seal actually perceives it, but 
it's the fact that the animal 

2573
02:06:57,400 --> 02:06:59,120
recognized her that is a big 
deal. 

2574
02:06:59,120 --> 02:07:03,400
I think that's really telling. 
So it's remarkable again and and

2575
02:07:03,400 --> 02:07:06,080
a sign of just how strong and 
powerful she is in this talent 

2576
02:07:06,080 --> 02:07:07,280
that she hasn't learned to use 
it. 

2577
02:07:07,640 --> 02:07:10,280
She hasn't consciously admitted 
what it is, but she's still 

2578
02:07:10,280 --> 02:07:13,560
doing it. 
She used the cat, she looked 

2579
02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:15,000
through his eyes. 
That happened. 

2580
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:17,800
And it's like the last thing we 
get from her. 

2581
02:07:18,000 --> 02:07:23,160
So like she might be where we've
left her, not counting the mercy

2582
02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:25,480
chapter. 
It's like right at the cusp of 

2583
02:07:25,480 --> 02:07:27,240
understanding. 
She's like just able. 

2584
02:07:27,240 --> 02:07:32,280
She's so close to being able to 
define herself to be like, OK, I

2585
02:07:32,280 --> 02:07:34,520
can do this. 
I can see through animals eyes. 

2586
02:07:34,520 --> 02:07:37,400
I can jump into Nymeria. 
These aren't just dreams. 

2587
02:07:37,640 --> 02:07:40,040
I feel like she's really close 
to having that realization and 

2588
02:07:40,440 --> 02:07:42,320
what a turning point that will 
be for her. 

2589
02:07:42,840 --> 02:07:45,560
And I think This is why I relate
it potentially to her break up 

2590
02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:47,600
with the Faceless Men, which 
seems to be incoming. 

2591
02:07:48,280 --> 02:07:53,000
Having a revelation of who she 
really is, of what she is, could

2592
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:56,760
really change her outlook and 
her willingness to be a part of 

2593
02:07:56,760 --> 02:08:00,760
this whole weird death cult. 
She's like, hey, teach me how to

2594
02:08:00,760 --> 02:08:02,160
do some things. 
Teach me to be sneaky. 

2595
02:08:02,160 --> 02:08:03,840
Teach me how to kill. 
Teach me about poison. 

2596
02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:06,000
I don't want to get into this 
whole religion, though. 

2597
02:08:06,000 --> 02:08:08,680
I'm not into this whole becoming
no one. 

2598
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:10,640
Like screw that. 
I'm Arya Stark. 

2599
02:08:11,160 --> 02:08:15,720
I'm the Night Wolf. 
Let's talk Bran. 

2600
02:08:15,720 --> 02:08:17,040
Let's talk Bran. 
We've already said a. 

2601
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:19,760
Lot about Bran because his some 
of his examples sort of trickle.

2602
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:22,520
Down to serve as examples for 
the rest, as this is the 

2603
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:25,480
ultimate, this is the exception.
This is the powerful, the most 

2604
02:08:25,480 --> 02:08:27,800
powerful. 
That in itself is an inescapable

2605
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:31,000
part of who he is. 
He cannot escape his massive 

2606
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:32,240
power. 
He is. 

2607
02:08:32,480 --> 02:08:35,400
He wanted to be a knight, but 
he's a warg, but he's also a 

2608
02:08:35,400 --> 02:08:38,960
green seer. 
But the warg stuff almost has a 

2609
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:41,760
bigger social impact. 
Yes, the green seer stuff is way

2610
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:43,600
more powerful. 
The fact that he's some sort of 

2611
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:46,560
chosen one, that's way more 
important, but it's the skin 

2612
02:08:46,560 --> 02:08:48,200
changer stuff that people 
recognize. 

2613
02:08:48,320 --> 02:08:50,600
People aren't out here going ah,
we shun green seers. 

2614
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:52,840
They're just way too rare. 
People don't have an opinion on 

2615
02:08:52,840 --> 02:08:55,480
green seers. 
Old man didn't tell him spooky 

2616
02:08:55,480 --> 02:08:58,160
stories about green seers. 
It's the beastlings, it's the 

2617
02:08:58,160 --> 02:09:00,520
skin changer, the warg. 
That's what he grew up hearing 

2618
02:09:00,520 --> 02:09:02,040
about. 
That's the one that's negative. 

2619
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:06,320
That's the one that has the 
social negativity associated 

2620
02:09:06,320 --> 02:09:08,400
with it. 
That's the bad one in his mind. 

2621
02:09:08,760 --> 02:09:10,400
Green seers, people don't talk 
about that. 

2622
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:15,200
That's just some. 
Yeah, it's it's vague and lost 

2623
02:09:15,200 --> 02:09:17,000
and done to to most humans. 
They don't. 

2624
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:19,040
Even they think that's the thing
of the past. 

2625
02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:21,800
Skin changers, it's different. 
It's a lot more present, a lot 

2626
02:09:21,800 --> 02:09:24,160
more there. 
Being a green seer doesn't make 

2627
02:09:24,160 --> 02:09:26,080
him an outcast, being a war 
does. 

2628
02:09:26,640 --> 02:09:29,040
He didn't really have a prior 
opinion of green seers. 

2629
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:31,640
He did have a prior opinion of 
skin change before realizing he 

2630
02:09:31,640 --> 02:09:34,680
was one, and he already feels 
isolated and different because 

2631
02:09:34,680 --> 02:09:37,240
he has a disability now. 
He's a really powerful being 

2632
02:09:37,240 --> 02:09:41,080
that can't relate to people. 
On top of that, A Song of Ice 

2633
02:09:41,080 --> 02:09:43,560
and Fire among other things. 
But. 

2634
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:46,840
At the core. 
Has a lot to say about power and

2635
02:09:46,840 --> 02:09:49,680
power corrupting. 
And Brad is massively powerful 

2636
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:53,680
in a unique way, in a way that 
has already corrupted him in 

2637
02:09:53,680 --> 02:09:55,040
some ways. 
Like look at what he's done to 

2638
02:09:55,040 --> 02:09:57,400
Hodor. 
That's not good, right? 

2639
02:09:57,400 --> 02:09:59,880
He's stolen Hodor. 
Like Hodor don't even want that.

2640
02:09:59,880 --> 02:10:02,600
Hodor's quiet and shy and 
scared. 

2641
02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:05,400
When Bran does that to him, Bran
knows he's doing a wrong thing, 

2642
02:10:05,400 --> 02:10:10,680
but he's able to like, make 
himself feel like it's not that.

2643
02:10:10,680 --> 02:10:11,440
Wrong. 
It's not. 

2644
02:10:11,440 --> 02:10:13,880
That bad, right? 
He deserves to be. 

2645
02:10:13,880 --> 02:10:16,640
Able to walk around a bit. 
You know, Hodor's bend his legs 

2646
02:10:16,640 --> 02:10:18,520
all the time. 
What's the big deal in his mind?

2647
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:20,040
You know why? 
Why can't I do this? 

2648
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:23,960
Well, we said Bran's getting an 
education. 

2649
02:10:23,960 --> 02:10:26,080
We said Bran is being. 
Taught the powers. 

2650
02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:28,280
He's being educated. 
By the children, before that, By

2651
02:10:28,280 --> 02:10:31,200
Jojen. 
By Bloodraven, they're not 

2652
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:33,320
telling him how to use his 
powers for good. 

2653
02:10:33,320 --> 02:10:35,040
They're not telling him how to 
be a good person. 

2654
02:10:35,040 --> 02:10:36,200
They're not. 
They're not teaching him the 

2655
02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:39,040
ethical use of his powers. 
They're teaching him how to save

2656
02:10:39,040 --> 02:10:41,400
the world, which means like 
whatever you got to do, you got 

2657
02:10:41,400 --> 02:10:44,400
to do. 
There's no like caveats here for

2658
02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:47,080
well, don't do that. 
No, do what needs to be done. 

2659
02:10:47,080 --> 02:10:51,480
They're teaching him to be like 
nature, ruthless, uncaring. 

2660
02:10:51,480 --> 02:10:53,000
It needs to do what needs to be 
done. 

2661
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:55,560
It needs to save humanity from 
endless winter. 

2662
02:10:55,560 --> 02:10:58,760
If if you have to innocent kill 
innocent people or innocent 

2663
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:03,200
animals to accomplish that goal,
it's worth it because otherwise 

2664
02:11:03,200 --> 02:11:04,960
we're talking about total 
extinction. 

2665
02:11:05,120 --> 02:11:07,880
What a burden to put on a 7 year
old though, or an 8 year old or 

2666
02:11:07,880 --> 02:11:10,560
whatever he is. 
So he's not being taught what's 

2667
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:12,600
right and wrong because that 
might slow him down. 

2668
02:11:12,760 --> 02:11:14,680
They might, they might not want 
him to have that sense. 

2669
02:11:14,680 --> 02:11:18,080
They might be like, Nah, he 
needs to be willing to spill 

2670
02:11:18,080 --> 02:11:20,880
blood because that's what it 
takes to save the world here. 

2671
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:23,400
So yeah, it's sad. 
He's isolated because of his 

2672
02:11:23,400 --> 02:11:26,400
extraordinary abilities, because
of the burden put on him to save

2673
02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:30,920
the world, and because he's got 
a disability that people shun 

2674
02:11:30,920 --> 02:11:34,640
him for. 
So he's becoming less and less 

2675
02:11:34,640 --> 02:11:38,560
human in that sense, because he 
is not a being that can be 

2676
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:43,200
accepted by humans. 
He's two different, and that's 

2677
02:11:43,200 --> 02:11:45,080
sad. 
Obviously that's tragic, but 

2678
02:11:45,080 --> 02:11:47,040
it's also going to have a 
trickle down effect on the rest 

2679
02:11:47,040 --> 02:11:48,760
of the Starks when they become 
reunited. 

2680
02:11:50,520 --> 02:11:53,960
His abilities will put things in
perspective maybe. 

2681
02:11:53,960 --> 02:11:55,320
For the rest of them like, well,
I feel like. 

2682
02:11:55,320 --> 02:11:58,080
Maybe a little bit of an outcast
for this, but at least I'm not 

2683
02:11:58,080 --> 02:12:00,200
like bats, you know? 
And they wouldn't. 

2684
02:12:00,200 --> 02:12:01,360
That's not something you would 
voice. 

2685
02:12:01,360 --> 02:12:04,120
You don't say that to your 
brother, but it might be 

2686
02:12:04,120 --> 02:12:06,040
something that flashes through 
your mind and make you feel 

2687
02:12:06,040 --> 02:12:09,440
guilty about it. 
How many animals will Bran 

2688
02:12:09,440 --> 02:12:11,760
control at once? 
Will he control entire flocks 

2689
02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:13,160
of? 
Ravens will he control? 

2690
02:12:13,800 --> 02:12:17,600
Giants. 
Will he control Bears? 

2691
02:12:17,600 --> 02:12:20,040
Will he control a dragon? 
Will he control the undead? 

2692
02:12:20,080 --> 02:12:24,400
Will that help us understand? 
The mechanism between the dead 

2693
02:12:24,400 --> 02:12:29,080
and skin change how that all 
works if Sansa is our vehicle to

2694
02:12:29,080 --> 02:12:31,000
what happens with just a 
sprinkle of skin. 

2695
02:12:31,000 --> 02:12:33,000
Changing talent, Bran. 
Is what happens with an 

2696
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:34,560
abundance. 
They're on the opposite ends of 

2697
02:12:34,560 --> 02:12:37,080
the spectrum, but you can still 
see how it affects their 

2698
02:12:37,080 --> 02:12:39,880
personality or might affect 
their personality because it's 

2699
02:12:39,880 --> 02:12:42,920
such a thing that makes you 
different from all the other 

2700
02:12:42,920 --> 02:12:45,480
humans. 
Like Arya and probably Rickon. 

2701
02:12:45,600 --> 02:12:47,880
He prefers to be in his wolf 
because it makes him feel strong

2702
02:12:47,880 --> 02:12:52,040
and less afraid or less hungry. 
Bran escapes into summer at 

2703
02:12:52,040 --> 02:12:54,920
times because they're starving. 
So it's a, it's a, it's a way to

2704
02:12:54,920 --> 02:12:57,120
escape that feeling and to have 
working legs. 

2705
02:12:57,120 --> 02:12:59,960
Quite frankly. 
He likes running around and he 

2706
02:12:59,960 --> 02:13:01,680
can do that as a wolf. 
He can't do that as a person. 

2707
02:13:01,760 --> 02:13:05,320
So there's all these temptations
to escape starvation, to escape 

2708
02:13:05,320 --> 02:13:07,600
bad feelings, to feel powerful, 
to run. 

2709
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:10,560
And he's so powerful within 
those places. 

2710
02:13:10,560 --> 02:13:13,320
He can do so much in his mind 
with his powers that he can't do

2711
02:13:13,320 --> 02:13:15,200
with his body. 
There's a little quote here. 

2712
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:17,840
He meant to do the things that 
Jojen asked, but once he was a 

2713
02:13:17,840 --> 02:13:19,200
wolf, they never seemed 
important. 

2714
02:13:19,560 --> 02:13:23,160
What that refers to is Jojen's 
trying to get him to be more 

2715
02:13:23,160 --> 02:13:27,320
aware when he's in summer. 
He's like, all right, I want you

2716
02:13:27,320 --> 02:13:30,320
to remember this when you're in 
summer, push some rocks in a 

2717
02:13:30,320 --> 02:13:33,960
row, scratch the wood in a 
certain way to show that you 

2718
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:35,880
have that control, and it never 
happens. 

2719
02:13:35,880 --> 02:13:38,880
Bran is. 
Unable to remember what his 

2720
02:13:38,880 --> 02:13:40,800
instructions were when he goes 
into summer. 

2721
02:13:41,200 --> 02:13:42,800
Is he going to eventually learn 
that? 

2722
02:13:42,800 --> 02:13:45,560
Well, maybe. 
But it goes to show how it's a 

2723
02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:47,840
two way bond. 
But in a lot of ways, the animal

2724
02:13:47,840 --> 02:13:52,760
bond half is more alluring. 
More corrupting isn't the right 

2725
02:13:52,760 --> 02:13:57,200
word, but it's less yielding. 
It doesn't have as an animal 

2726
02:13:57,200 --> 02:13:59,960
brain. 
It it's kind of it, it, it 

2727
02:13:59,960 --> 02:14:04,720
doesn't change as much It's it 
doesn't have consciousness or 

2728
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:08,160
the same type of consciousness. 
It doesn't have like the ability

2729
02:14:08,160 --> 02:14:10,040
to go against. 
Its own desires. 

2730
02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:13,840
Right It's it's the difference 
between human, human and animal 

2731
02:14:14,040 --> 02:14:19,080
minds Is is being bridged here 
and you can see why it'd be 

2732
02:14:19,080 --> 02:14:21,640
important to keep your humanity 
because if you become more 

2733
02:14:21,640 --> 02:14:23,960
animalistic, well then you get 
into the things we're worried 

2734
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:25,800
about with John. 
Like maybe John becomes really 

2735
02:14:25,800 --> 02:14:28,440
savage, really violent, really 
ruthless in in ways that make us

2736
02:14:28,440 --> 02:14:31,560
uncomfortable, make that make us
think this isn't the Jon Snow of

2737
02:14:31,560 --> 02:14:33,800
before. 
Bran might go down a path like 

2738
02:14:33,800 --> 02:14:38,320
that as well as he becomes less 
human, as he becomes bears this 

2739
02:14:38,320 --> 02:14:40,880
burden as a savior with all 
these powers. 

2740
02:14:40,880 --> 02:14:44,240
And if he's in the minds of so 
many other animals and in the 

2741
02:14:44,240 --> 02:14:46,880
past, what's that going to do to
his his actual mind? 

2742
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:48,200
Right. 
Well, that's got to change him. 

2743
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:54,720
So, yeah, the good-natured young
boy is being taught all these 

2744
02:14:54,720 --> 02:14:58,240
powers and grand things without 
any sense of right and wrong. 

2745
02:14:58,400 --> 02:15:00,280
Only what? 
Only his own sense of right and 

2746
02:15:00,280 --> 02:15:02,640
wrong, which as a 7 year old, 
yeah, he's a good-natured kid, 

2747
02:15:02,640 --> 02:15:05,640
but how far can that go? 
Meanwhile, Vermeer, a horrible 

2748
02:15:05,640 --> 02:15:08,520
man, was taught that skin 
changers have a code of of 

2749
02:15:08,560 --> 02:15:12,040
ethics. 
And Vermeer actually somewhat 

2750
02:15:12,040 --> 02:15:13,480
adhered to it, which is. 
So that's a. 

2751
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:16,520
Strange dichotomy. 
Bran unable to adhere to it 

2752
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:20,120
because he's not aware of it. 
Vermeer, awful dude did actually

2753
02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:22,160
stick to the skin changer code 
of ethics for the most part. 

2754
02:15:22,160 --> 02:15:23,960
Definitely not all of it. 
Definitely not all of it. 

2755
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:28,840
And what we learn is some of 
these codes. 

2756
02:15:28,840 --> 02:15:30,120
What some of these codes of 
behavior for? 

2757
02:15:30,120 --> 02:15:31,720
Skin changers are. 
We learn it through Hagon and 

2758
02:15:31,720 --> 02:15:34,120
Vermeer. 
Bran ends up violating nearly 

2759
02:15:34,120 --> 02:15:38,680
all of it. 
One of the things is don't mate 

2760
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:43,080
wolf with wolf, don't be in 
don't skin change into a wolf 

2761
02:15:43,080 --> 02:15:46,200
and bang another wolf. 
I don't think Bran's done that 

2762
02:15:46,200 --> 02:15:48,880
one. 
But the other ones, you're not 

2763
02:15:48,880 --> 02:15:52,920
supposed to eat human meat while
in an animal, or at all. 

2764
02:15:53,280 --> 02:15:55,640
Bran does both. 
He eats human meat while a wolf.

2765
02:15:55,640 --> 02:15:58,320
And he eats human meat. 
While Bran he doesn't know he's 

2766
02:15:58,320 --> 02:16:01,880
doing it but he did it. 
Cold hands fed him meat from 

2767
02:16:01,880 --> 02:16:06,000
human and told him it was pork. 
He also isn't supposed to take 

2768
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:08,280
over a human, which he has done 
a. 

2769
02:16:08,280 --> 02:16:11,400
Lot with Hodor. 
He is taking Hodor and he's and 

2770
02:16:11,400 --> 02:16:13,120
he knows it's wrong. 
He doesn't tell anyone he's 

2771
02:16:13,120 --> 02:16:14,560
doing it. 
It's a part of him realizes it's

2772
02:16:14,560 --> 02:16:15,760
wrong. 
And again, he just kind of 

2773
02:16:15,760 --> 02:16:17,560
justifies it by saying it's not 
that wrong. 

2774
02:16:18,360 --> 02:16:20,760
But according to Hagon, it's the
biggest abomination of all, 

2775
02:16:21,040 --> 02:16:24,440
which is interesting story wise,
conflict wise, ethics wise, and 

2776
02:16:24,440 --> 02:16:26,640
somehow it's also the least 
gross, which is weird. 

2777
02:16:26,640 --> 02:16:31,520
It's like, yeah, definitely 
voyeuristic human beastiality is

2778
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:34,520
gross and eating cannibalism, 
that's gross. 

2779
02:16:35,080 --> 02:16:37,680
But it's the skin changer 
prohibition of body snatching 

2780
02:16:38,400 --> 02:16:41,200
that apparently is so bad. 
That's the worst. 

2781
02:16:41,959 --> 02:16:43,879
Where did they come up with this
idea that it's the worst? 

2782
02:16:43,879 --> 02:16:45,480
I don't know. 
Where did this develop? 

2783
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:47,760
I have no idea. 
You can kind of see why that, 

2784
02:16:47,959 --> 02:16:51,320
you know, like it's a basic 
function of human society in the

2785
02:16:51,320 --> 02:16:52,080
modern world. 
Yeah. 

2786
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:53,240
Yeah. 
You shouldn't be controlling 

2787
02:16:53,240 --> 02:16:55,120
other people's brains. 
That seems. 

2788
02:16:55,280 --> 02:16:56,879
It's like murder. 
Yeah, you shouldn't do that. 

2789
02:16:56,879 --> 02:16:57,959
Like, that's. 
It's pretty basic. 

2790
02:16:57,959 --> 02:17:01,120
We don't need to really get into
a deep explanation of why that's

2791
02:17:01,120 --> 02:17:04,200
wrong. 
But Bran, 7-8 year old person, 

2792
02:17:04,760 --> 02:17:07,600
well, we don't need to get into 
a deep explanation of why that a

2793
02:17:07,719 --> 02:17:10,240
brain of that age with all the 
everything he's been through 

2794
02:17:10,240 --> 02:17:12,719
wouldn't necessarily process it 
that way the same way the rest 

2795
02:17:12,719 --> 02:17:16,000
of us would as adults who live 
in a society where these things 

2796
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:20,000
are very well established. 
Also on top of that though, it's

2797
02:17:20,000 --> 02:17:22,760
a skin changer prohibition to 
seize another human. 

2798
02:17:23,360 --> 02:17:25,440
It's a power that most of them 
don't even have though. 

2799
02:17:25,760 --> 02:17:28,760
Like they can't do it. 
Like brain can do it kind of 

2800
02:17:28,760 --> 02:17:32,840
easily. 
I Vermeer was unable to take 

2801
02:17:32,840 --> 02:17:34,400
Thistle. 
He was unable. 

2802
02:17:34,400 --> 02:17:36,400
To take her body even. 
Though he's a really powerful 

2803
02:17:36,400 --> 02:17:37,600
skin changer. 
I don't think Hagon could have 

2804
02:17:37,600 --> 02:17:39,200
done it at all. 
Hagon probably was like, you 

2805
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:42,600
shouldn't do that. 
I can't do that, you know, like 

2806
02:17:42,600 --> 02:17:44,520
I don't think he was capable. 
Like it's, it's it's it's a 

2807
02:17:44,520 --> 02:17:45,559
weird. 
It's like a prohibition. 

2808
02:17:45,559 --> 02:17:48,080
Against a power that most skin 
changers don't even have. 

2809
02:17:48,840 --> 02:17:51,280
So that's kind of curious It's 
like well let's not get too 

2810
02:17:51,280 --> 02:17:53,639
powerful with this. 
Maybe it's like, yeah, if we do 

2811
02:17:53,639 --> 02:17:57,120
that, that's where rumors were 
evil comes from. 

2812
02:17:57,120 --> 02:18:00,240
If if you start body. 
Snatching people then. 

2813
02:18:00,240 --> 02:18:02,760
All of us skin changers are 
going to be haunted and killed. 

2814
02:18:03,400 --> 02:18:05,520
Maybe that's why it happened. 
Maybe that is why they all get 

2815
02:18:05,639 --> 02:18:07,840
so many of them were haunted 
down because they started body 

2816
02:18:07,840 --> 02:18:11,639
snatching or maybe a couple 
examples of that happened and 

2817
02:18:11,639 --> 02:18:14,080
word got out and people started 
thinking that all skin changers 

2818
02:18:14,080 --> 02:18:16,879
can do that and it just 
terrified everyone and that's 

2819
02:18:16,879 --> 02:18:19,760
why people started killing them.
Why now? 

2820
02:18:20,280 --> 02:18:21,320
Let's talk about that for a 
minute. 

2821
02:18:21,320 --> 02:18:23,240
Why now? 
Why are so many stark skin 

2822
02:18:23,240 --> 02:18:25,080
changers now versus earlier in 
history? 

2823
02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:26,440
Why haven't we heard about this 
happening? 

2824
02:18:26,879 --> 02:18:28,680
Is it possible there's plenty 
more? 

2825
02:18:28,680 --> 02:18:30,600
Like we said, we theorized that 
maybe there have been plenty of 

2826
02:18:30,600 --> 02:18:33,400
Stark skin changer genes out 
there or talents out there. 

2827
02:18:33,400 --> 02:18:35,320
They just never, never 
developed. 

2828
02:18:35,639 --> 02:18:37,840
They didn't get direwolves, they
didn't get that catalyst. 

2829
02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:40,280
They didn't nothing started them
off on that journey. 

2830
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:44,360
So it just rotted. 
That skill was atrophied. 

2831
02:18:45,160 --> 02:18:46,799
All of them in. 
One generation though. 

2832
02:18:47,440 --> 02:18:48,799
Peculiar. 
It's a question we asked at the 

2833
02:18:48,799 --> 02:18:50,600
beginning and I don't know that 
we're that much closer to 

2834
02:18:50,600 --> 02:18:55,639
answering it. 
So if it's mostly or not 

2835
02:18:55,639 --> 02:18:58,240
entirely not genetics. 
Is it related? 

2836
02:18:58,240 --> 02:18:59,240
To the rise of. 
Magic. 

2837
02:18:59,240 --> 02:19:00,840
Is it related to the return of 
magic? 

2838
02:19:00,840 --> 02:19:02,520
The comet, the Dragons and all 
that? 

2839
02:19:02,639 --> 02:19:05,840
Maybe corn. 
Half Hand seems to think that's 

2840
02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:10,480
a strong possibility. 
Quote Skin changer, said Eben 

2841
02:19:10,480 --> 02:19:12,959
grimly, looking at the Half 
hand. 

2842
02:19:13,400 --> 02:19:16,200
Does he mean the eagle? 
John wondered. 

2843
02:19:16,360 --> 02:19:20,280
Or me? 
Skin Changers and Gorg belonged 

2844
02:19:20,280 --> 02:19:24,240
in old Man's stories, not in the
world he had lived in all his 

2845
02:19:24,240 --> 02:19:28,600
life. 
Yet here, in this strange, bleak

2846
02:19:28,600 --> 02:19:34,240
wilderness of rock and ice, it 
was not hard to believe the cold

2847
02:19:34,240 --> 02:19:37,520
winds are rising. 
Mormont feared as much. 

2848
02:19:37,879 --> 02:19:43,200
Benjin Stark felt it as well. 
Dead men walk and the trees have

2849
02:19:43,200 --> 02:19:47,920
eyes again. 
Why should we balk at wargs and 

2850
02:19:47,920 --> 02:19:50,000
giants? 
Mormont. 

2851
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:52,880
Feared it, but Benjin Stark felt
it, he says. 

2852
02:19:52,880 --> 02:19:55,120
A Stark. 
Feeling it, Interesting. 

2853
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:58,120
Interesting for sure. 
What does that mean now? 

2854
02:19:58,120 --> 02:20:00,360
Honestly a lot of people think 
Mormont was a bit of a skin 

2855
02:20:00,360 --> 02:20:02,600
changer or had a little bit of 
that talent given the Raven. 

2856
02:20:02,600 --> 02:20:05,000
On the other hand, that Raven 
could just be blood Raven, you 

2857
02:20:05,000 --> 02:20:07,480
know like chilling with him, 
just keeping an eye on things. 

2858
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:10,720
Either way it fits. 
If magic is more powerful right 

2859
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:12,680
now, if the old powers are 
waking, then more people are 

2860
02:20:12,680 --> 02:20:14,840
able to attune. 
With their own abilities. 

2861
02:20:14,840 --> 02:20:18,080
Maybe you have the maybe the 
latent talent exists in some 

2862
02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:21,520
people, but if the magical 
forces aren't properly primed or

2863
02:20:21,520 --> 02:20:23,120
flowing that you can't interact 
with it. 

2864
02:20:23,520 --> 02:20:27,520
If old powers are waking, then 
imagine there's a cell phone in 

2865
02:20:27,520 --> 02:20:29,480
your head. 
You're born with a cell phone in

2866
02:20:29,480 --> 02:20:31,280
your head, but there's no 
signal. 

2867
02:20:31,600 --> 02:20:34,000
You exist in a world with no 
cell phone signals, no second 

2868
02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:35,880
cell phone towers. 
Then all of a sudden one day 

2869
02:20:36,640 --> 02:20:38,880
there's a signal. 
Your brain is activated. 

2870
02:20:38,880 --> 02:20:41,480
You're like, oh wow, I have. 
I can sense things that I 

2871
02:20:41,480 --> 02:20:44,040
weren't there before. 
I don't know that that's really 

2872
02:20:44,040 --> 02:20:47,240
how George thinks about it. 
But I, you know, I feel like 

2873
02:20:47,240 --> 02:20:49,760
this is a reasonable way to 
perceive it, that it's a, it's a

2874
02:20:49,760 --> 02:20:52,720
latent ability that you had 
nothing to use it on. 

2875
02:20:52,840 --> 02:20:56,160
Like you have, like you have a 
computer, but no power. 

2876
02:20:56,320 --> 02:20:59,960
You know, you have a, an iPad 
with no batteries. 

2877
02:21:00,000 --> 02:21:01,800
You know, you, once you plug 
those batteries in, all of a 

2878
02:21:01,800 --> 02:21:05,120
sudden everything works. 
Once the proper elements are out

2879
02:21:05,120 --> 02:21:08,680
there to complete the mixture, 
everything starts working. 

2880
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:10,960
It all turns on the signals that
are available. 

2881
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:14,440
So changes in the magical 
currents of the world or in 

2882
02:21:14,440 --> 02:21:17,400
certain places could impact the 
skin changer population. 

2883
02:21:18,520 --> 02:21:21,920
Perhaps there's a pervasive 
energy that waxes and wanes, and

2884
02:21:21,920 --> 02:21:23,160
when it's. 
At its height. 

2885
02:21:23,400 --> 02:21:26,560
The more skin changers are more 
powerful, they can detect their 

2886
02:21:26,560 --> 02:21:30,880
own abilities and in this this 
waxing and waning can be years 

2887
02:21:30,880 --> 02:21:34,120
at a time like winter or maybe 
it's on a different timeline, 

2888
02:21:34,120 --> 02:21:39,600
but you get the get the point. 
Last but not least, the Stark 

2889
02:21:39,600 --> 02:21:42,360
reunification. 
As mentioned at the beginning, 

2890
02:21:42,360 --> 02:21:44,360
this isn't the most. 
Exciting or mysterious, but 

2891
02:21:44,360 --> 02:21:47,120
definitely the part that matters
the most from a character and 

2892
02:21:47,120 --> 02:21:49,760
story perspective. 
Meaning how their reunion will 

2893
02:21:49,760 --> 02:21:52,000
be impacted by their 
supernatural abilities and how 

2894
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:55,080
they discuss it, how they 
perceive each other and how 

2895
02:21:55,080 --> 02:21:58,600
others perceive them. 
And of course, I'm going to 

2896
02:21:58,680 --> 02:22:00,960
repeat that this is goes well 
beyond. 

2897
02:22:00,960 --> 02:22:02,480
Skin changing and skin changing 
goes well. 

2898
02:22:02,480 --> 02:22:05,040
Beyond this, these are bigger 
topics than than this moment, 

2899
02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:06,920
but it's a rather unique aspect 
to it. 

2900
02:22:06,920 --> 02:22:10,600
It's a important part that we 
think is coming. 

2901
02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:14,280
It's something that they all 
share, that few others and no 

2902
02:22:14,280 --> 02:22:16,160
one else around them has in 
common. 

2903
02:22:17,400 --> 02:22:19,600
Will Brand teach them all how to
use their abilities? 

2904
02:22:19,600 --> 02:22:22,080
Will he decide it's not a good 
idea? 

2905
02:22:23,040 --> 02:22:26,280
Will he decide it's very 
necessary to fight what's coming

2906
02:22:26,920 --> 02:22:28,080
that. 
Seems more likely. 

2907
02:22:28,440 --> 02:22:32,000
Because what's coming is so, so 
big and dangerous and and dark, 

2908
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:33,680
you need all the help they can 
get, right? 

2909
02:22:34,040 --> 02:22:36,560
I think ultimately it will unite
them and it will make them 

2910
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:39,520
stronger, but there's room for 
some some downsides. 

2911
02:22:39,520 --> 02:22:43,000
For example, maybe Sansa is 
isolated by not having these 

2912
02:22:43,000 --> 02:22:45,640
powers, or maybe Brad is 
isolated because he is so, so 

2913
02:22:45,640 --> 02:22:48,400
much more than a skin changer 
and so much more powerful. 

2914
02:22:49,400 --> 02:22:51,800
Even if we only count his skin 
changing ability, which there's 

2915
02:22:51,800 --> 02:22:53,960
no reason to only count that 
because he has so many other 

2916
02:22:53,960 --> 02:22:57,320
abilities, supernatural, it just
makes him so much different. 

2917
02:22:57,440 --> 02:23:00,320
And yeah, it could be a very key
point in them reidentifying with

2918
02:23:00,320 --> 02:23:01,920
each other. 
It's like this is a thing that 

2919
02:23:01,920 --> 02:23:04,200
links us in a way beyond our 
name. 

2920
02:23:04,680 --> 02:23:07,440
And the Stark's succession 
crisis hangs over all this. 

2921
02:23:07,440 --> 02:23:11,160
Like they may not want to fight 
each other, others may try to 

2922
02:23:11,160 --> 02:23:15,760
use them in that way, and 
perhaps the skin changer bond 

2923
02:23:15,760 --> 02:23:17,800
will have an impact in that. 
In regard, maybe some people 

2924
02:23:17,800 --> 02:23:19,720
won't want to follow a certain. 
Stark because they learn. 

2925
02:23:19,720 --> 02:23:26,840
About that power, maybe Jon 
Snow's death and return is. 

2926
02:23:27,280 --> 02:23:29,640
Combined with his. 
Ability to control animals and 

2927
02:23:29,640 --> 02:23:33,960
that just like scares people or 
intimidates them and makes them 

2928
02:23:33,960 --> 02:23:38,240
think things about other Starks.
So many possibilities, so many 

2929
02:23:38,240 --> 02:23:39,920
great ideas, so much to look 
forward to. 

2930
02:23:40,200 --> 02:23:41,360
And let me remind you of 
something I. 

2931
02:23:41,360 --> 02:23:44,280
Said very early on in the 
episode, at the very beginning. 

2932
02:23:44,840 --> 02:23:48,400
While we've gone a long way with
a lot of these characters, five 

2933
02:23:48,400 --> 02:23:53,040
books, lots of discussions, 
videos, theories, blog posts, 

2934
02:23:53,040 --> 02:23:56,200
whatever, as far as skin 
changers go, we've barely gotten

2935
02:23:56,200 --> 02:23:57,920
started with this part of who 
they are. 

2936
02:23:58,800 --> 02:24:00,640
Only brands really gone that 
deep with it. 

2937
02:24:01,480 --> 02:24:04,480
John's got involved. 
He's, you know, got lots of 

2938
02:24:04,480 --> 02:24:07,040
interesting things going on with
Ghost, but he hasn't even 

2939
02:24:07,040 --> 02:24:11,120
learned to control it. 
He can't voluntarily join jump 

2940
02:24:11,120 --> 02:24:14,320
into Ghost. 
Arya can't voluntarily jump into

2941
02:24:14,320 --> 02:24:15,520
Nymeria. 
She doesn't even know what's 

2942
02:24:15,520 --> 02:24:17,000
going on. 
She doesn't even doesn't. 

2943
02:24:17,000 --> 02:24:19,080
Even again the. 
Word war skin changer. 

2944
02:24:19,080 --> 02:24:20,920
I don't think is popped up in 
any of her chapters. 

2945
02:24:22,040 --> 02:24:24,280
It's going to matter. 
We're going to get more 

2946
02:24:24,280 --> 02:24:26,800
explanations, full explanations.
No, of course not. 

2947
02:24:26,880 --> 02:24:29,440
Absolutely not. 
Much mystery is going to remain 

2948
02:24:29,440 --> 02:24:32,520
no matter what. 
That will in turn fuel future 

2949
02:24:32,520 --> 02:24:35,360
questions and future theories. 
Future fun. 

2950
02:24:36,240 --> 02:24:39,480
Dornish Dame asks I or says. 
I also think Ghost makes a noise

2951
02:24:39,480 --> 02:24:41,280
during the clash dream. 
His cry echoed through the 

2952
02:24:41,280 --> 02:24:43,280
forest, a long lonely, mournful 
sound. 

2953
02:24:44,000 --> 02:24:46,800
So I think Ghost can make a 
noise when John is. 

2954
02:24:46,880 --> 02:24:48,960
John can make a ghost make a 
sound. 

2955
02:24:49,320 --> 02:24:50,840
Interesting. 
Ghost maybe doesn't make sounds 

2956
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:53,280
on his own, but when someone 
else is controlling him, like 

2957
02:24:53,280 --> 02:24:55,600
maybe Blood Raven is. 
Your theory is very good Shay. 

2958
02:24:55,600 --> 02:24:57,960
That's very possible. 
That could be the explanation. 

2959
02:24:58,440 --> 02:25:00,320
That's a good point. 
That's a good point. 

2960
02:25:00,880 --> 02:25:04,720
Our trivia question was which 
POV character was said to have 

2961
02:25:04,720 --> 02:25:08,480
been a wolf with bat wings? 
Sansa. 

2962
02:25:09,000 --> 02:25:11,240
That's right, Sansa, pretty much
all the Starks are described as 

2963
02:25:11,240 --> 02:25:12,640
wolves. 
At one point and I think. 

2964
02:25:12,640 --> 02:25:15,480
Even Rob may have been described
as having some other parts, but 

2965
02:25:15,480 --> 02:25:18,480
bat wings specifically? 
No, only Sansa's described that 

2966
02:25:18,480 --> 02:25:24,440
way, and that's a good good 
little subtle nod to her Went 

2967
02:25:24,440 --> 02:25:28,720
ancestry. 
Because Catlin's mother was 

2968
02:25:28,720 --> 02:25:31,400
Manissa went and the Went sigil 
is bats. 

2969
02:25:31,560 --> 02:25:34,360
There you go. 
So she is a wolf with bat wings.

2970
02:25:34,360 --> 02:25:35,680
Her grandmother was a bat there 
you. 

2971
02:25:35,680 --> 02:25:39,760
Go. 
Thank you everybody for hanging 

2972
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:41,920
out with us today for. 
Listening to this. 

2973
02:25:41,920 --> 02:25:45,000
Podcast and for sticking with us
all the way through because if 

2974
02:25:45,000 --> 02:25:47,320
you're hearing this part well, 
this is the end of the episode, 

2975
02:25:47,320 --> 02:25:48,680
which means you must listen to 
all of it. 

2976
02:25:48,680 --> 02:25:50,480
We appreciate that means a lot 
to us. 

2977
02:25:50,480 --> 02:25:55,000
It shows up in our stats podcast
advertisers and things like 

2978
02:25:55,000 --> 02:25:56,000
that. 
That's what they really look 

2979
02:25:56,000 --> 02:25:58,080
for. 
They want people who they want 

2980
02:25:58,080 --> 02:26:00,760
to find shows that keep people 
engaged all the way through. 

2981
02:26:01,000 --> 02:26:02,640
So if you're one of those 
people, we appreciate that 

2982
02:26:02,640 --> 02:26:06,640
because it really helps us make 
a living at this and we're very 

2983
02:26:06,640 --> 02:26:09,040
grateful for that. 
But you know, it's being your 

2984
02:26:09,040 --> 02:26:11,560
own boss. 
You know, we're, we're out here,

2985
02:26:11,560 --> 02:26:13,040
right? 
We, we don't have some of the 

2986
02:26:13,040 --> 02:26:14,400
protections that you might have 
working. 

2987
02:26:14,600 --> 02:26:16,400
For somebody else, we. 
Really appreciate any kind of 

2988
02:26:16,400 --> 02:26:19,240
support, whether that's sending 
us messages, whether that's 

2989
02:26:19,880 --> 02:26:23,720
spreading the word, or whether 
that's joining us on Patreon or 

2990
02:26:23,720 --> 02:26:27,600
as a Spotify subscriber and 
voluntarily giving us a little 

2991
02:26:27,600 --> 02:26:29,320
fee every month, because that 
really adds up. 

2992
02:26:29,640 --> 02:26:32,600
It's very gratifying, very 
motivating, and we'll keep the 

2993
02:26:32,600 --> 02:26:35,160
episodes coming. 
Thanks to Nina for her great 

2994
02:26:35,160 --> 02:26:36,720
notes. 
Really helpful. 

2995
02:26:38,000 --> 02:26:40,760
Thanks to Joey Townsend and 
Jesse Koval for our music. 

2996
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:44,600
Michael Klarfeld, who is coming 
to visit America this month. 

2997
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:47,560
We're so excited to show him all
around. 

2998
02:26:48,120 --> 02:26:51,520
Thanks to him for his great maps
that you see behind me and the 

2999
02:26:51,680 --> 02:26:55,120
video intro that he did for us. 
Until next time everybody, you 

3000
02:26:55,120 --> 02:26:57,440
know what to do. 
Valar one second. 

3001
02:26:57,680 --> 02:27:00,680
He will be here in. 
Atlanta at the end of February 

3002
02:27:00,680 --> 02:27:02,040
and then we're going to Chicago 
if you're. 

3003
02:27:02,040 --> 02:27:05,960
In the Atlanta area or Chicago 
area and would like to meet up 

3004
02:27:05,960 --> 02:27:07,400
with Michael. 
Send us an e-mail at 

3005
02:27:07,400 --> 02:27:10,920
westeroshistory@gmail.com. 
Yeah, either Chicago or Atlanta,

3006
02:27:10,920 --> 02:27:13,120
or if you're near close enough 
to either, the city's come by 

3007
02:27:13,480 --> 02:27:14,400
and talk to us. 
About it. 

3008
02:27:14,400 --> 02:27:17,560
We'll, we'll, we'll give you the
the details. 

3009
02:27:17,600 --> 02:27:21,880
Now you can say goodbye, Valar. 
Really, Reedus? 

3010
02:27:23,080 --> 02:27:23,880
I'm messing with you.