1
00:00:47,970 --> 00:00:53,130
300 years ago, before the start 
of the books, Torin Stark knelt 

2
00:00:53,170 --> 00:00:55,930
to Aegon the Conqueror rather 
than face his Dragons. 

3
00:00:56,330 --> 00:01:01,050
This decision was made after 
seeing those Dragons, and after 

4
00:01:01,050 --> 00:01:03,970
seeing what Valerian in 
particular did to Harrenhal. 

5
00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:07,960
The North joined the Seven 
Kingdoms, the fledgling 7 

6
00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:09,760
kingdoms as it was in those 
days. 

7
00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:14,400
Yet despite the Seven Kingdoms 
growing closer to one another 

8
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,960
under 1 banner or under 1 crown,
the North has remained fairly 

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00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:23,000
separate in many ways. 
Different religion, culture, 

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00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,160
history, even values. 
There's some overlap of course, 

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00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,400
but there's substantial 
differences. 

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One major thing is there's much 
less influence from the Andals 

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00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,400
even in day-to-day living and 
long term philosophy. 

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00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,280
Yet the north is large. 
It's not a monolith. 

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00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,560
Though the North remains 
northern. 

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00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,120
Certain areas are arguably less 
northern than others. 

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White Harbor in particular has a
lot of the South in it and a lot

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00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,400
of southerners coming through 
and back and forth people from 

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00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,640
other places. 
Barrowton is large. 

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00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,640
It's not a city, but it is urban
or semi urban. 

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00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,160
The Kramnig men of the Neck are 
northerners, but they're not at 

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00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,360
all like those city dwellers or 
the ones to the extreme. 

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00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,520
N even Winterfell has changed 
over the years given its 

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00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,160
dealings with the South. 
Things like that. 

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00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:16,360
But the houses farthest N 
closest to the wall, closest to 

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winter, These are the houses 
that most firmly keep the old 

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ways, the ones that are still 
the most northern. 

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Sometimes they have to do these 
things in secret though, given 

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how the ancient rites and 
beliefs are seen in current 

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times. 
You can be proudly northern, but

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some of the old ways are not 
things you can really be proud 

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of, even if you still practice 
them. 

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Now if we accept the Wall and 
beyond and Skagos, which has no 

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00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,920
castles at all, Last Hearth, 
Seat of house Umber is the 

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00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:50,720
farthest northern castle. 
Everything about the region 

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speaks to extremes. 
Last Hearth gives the impression

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00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:57,280
of a dangerous frontier place, 
and rightly so. 

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00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,440
It is. 
Living is harsh up there. 

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00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,400
If the Raiders don't get you, 
winter will. 

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00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:07,280
The umbers, thus, to survive 
this long and thrive even, are 

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00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,360
very tough, very proud, very 
capable. 

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00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,800
It's impressive to make it this 
far, this long and and still be 

43
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,800
doing what they're doing. 
They have little room for 

44
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,360
weakness, little margin for 
error. 

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00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,760
With so many foes and threats 
nearby, as we'll go through in 

46
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,320
this episode, they can't really 
afford to be any less than 

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00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,040
vigilant. 
They can't afford to not be 

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00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,600
strong. 
For these reasons, the Umbers 

49
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,880
have long been powerful allies 
and vassals of the Starks, 

50
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,280
sometimes a second or even first
line of defense against the fury

51
00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,280
of the Free Folk and worse. 
It's also For these reasons that

52
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,960
Great John Umber became a 
kingmaker. 

53
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,600
No one calls him that, but he is
the man who lived farther north 

54
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,800
than other Northerners. 
It's fitting that he and his kin

55
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,280
have the least regard amongst 
northerners for the doings of 

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00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,120
the South. 
They're the farthest away from 

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00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,080
it. 
They have less respect for that 

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00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,160
relatively soft way that they 
live down there. 

59
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,400
As Lord Umber said famously, 
even their gods are wrong. 

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00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,080
Beyond this well crafted world 
building and character 

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00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,920
development, George has also 
done something sneaky with house

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00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,480
Umber in terms of the story. 
Nearly everything to do with 

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00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,800
them, everything they're 
involved with plot wise is still

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00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,440
ongoing. 
All the major umber characters, 

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00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,640
save one who was killed at the 
Red Wedding are still in 

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00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,200
progress. 
Great John Crow food, Hor's 

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00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,320
Bane, They have plot still 
going. 

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00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,040
Revenge to claim, ambition to 
fulfill, and who knows what 

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00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,880
else. 
We haven't technically even seen

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00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,560
a single umber fight someone, 
right? 

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00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,840
This is a proud, vigilant, 
warlike, not afraid to throw 

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00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:50,120
down house. 
But we haven't seen a single one

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00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,720
of them fight. 
You might think, wait, is that 

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00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:52,520
true? 
Aziz? 

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00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:53,960
Haven't we seen the Great John 
fight? 

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00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,720
No, we have not. 
We've heard talk of it, We've 

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00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,680
heard accounts of it. 
We haven't seen it on page now, 

78
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,520
unless you count him punching 
Lord Rickard Karstark, which I 

79
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:06,640
don't. 
That's not really a fight. 

80
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,360
He didn't fight back. 
It was just one punch. 

81
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,440
So we've, again, we've heard a 
lot of it, but we haven't 

82
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:12,760
actually seen it. 
And that's interesting. 

83
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,920
Not even during the Red Wedding 
isn't that interesting. 

84
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,520
So George has mostly kept them 
in his back pocket or at least 

85
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,800
kept them on delay, like in a 
stasis where he's holding it 

86
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,440
back for later. 
There. 

87
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,840
There's definitely going to be 
an unleashing, or rather with 

88
00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:31,880
respect to their sigil and 
unchaining yet to come. 

89
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,600
We don't know exactly when, but 
it's coming. 

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00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,840
Today we discuss these 
possibilities, where they could 

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00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:41,400
lead and why. 
Theories and foreshadowing umber

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00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,760
history and lore. 
All that and more on this 

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00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,800
episode of History of Westeros 
podcast. 

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00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,720
Hello and welcome back 
everybody. 

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00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,320
We are live streaming at our 
usual time of Three Eastern on 

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00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,480
YouTube. 
It's always fun to have you 

97
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,360
catch us live and participate. 
Hang out with your fellow 

98
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,280
Westorians. 
The Song of Ice and Fire fans 

99
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,320
and comment chat do all those 
fun things. 

100
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,200
But of course not everyone can 
be here. 

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00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,920
It's Sunday at this time. 
You can catch us afterwards on 

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00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,600
YouTube or on Spotify. 
The edited version, it's 

103
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,240
cleaner, a little bit better 
audio. 

104
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,440
And the same goes for our 
podcast version, which you can 

105
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,080
catch on any platform that has 
podcasts. 

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00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,040
But if you sign up to be a 
patron, you can get it ad free. 

107
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,560
Shout out to our good friend 
Nina Krusling who's latest blog 

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00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,680
post over on 
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 

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That's with 1L and Ally is very 
much related to this episode. 

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It compares a famous scene in 
The Accursed Kings. 

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Yes, her favorite The Accursed 
Kings. 

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00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,360
This famous scene in that book, 
or in that series rather, that 

113
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,600
is very reminiscent of great 
John's king making scene at the 

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00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,520
end of Game of Thrones. 
It may have even been an 

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00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,040
inspiration for George, who 
knows? 

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00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,640
He's certainly read the series 
and speaks highly of it. 

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We can't be sure, but there's 
definitely some parallels. 

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00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,600
It's it's a great read. 
Highly recommend it. 

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If you have questions for us, 
make sure to hit us up at 

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00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,400
westeroshistory@gmail.com, 
comment live, hit us up on any 

121
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:12,960
of our socials. 
We're pretty much everywhere 

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00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,440
that you can find us, that you 
can find social media stuff. 

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00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,440
And at the end of this episode, 
I'll mention episodes that 

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00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,240
relate to this one. 
If you want to stay immersed, we

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00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,240
got you covered. 
Let's do a trivia question also,

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which the answer will be at the 
end of the episode. 

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00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,520
What was Lord harmond Umber's 
nickname? 

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00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,800
Hint. 
He was a contemporary of Artos 

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00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720
the Implacable. 
Like I said, answer at the end. 

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Let me read you all the sections
that we have today. 

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00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,000
Get that primed up. 
We've got first mention and 1st 

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00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,440
appearance like we often do for 
episodes like this. 

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00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,400
Then we'll get into ancient 
history, Last Hearth, neighbors 

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00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,720
Umber culture, the old Gods that
Last Hearth, recent history 

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00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,760
under the Dragons, Prius, Song 
of Ice and Fire. 

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00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,000
That means recently, before Song
of Ice and Fire. 

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00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,200
House Umber in A Song of Ice and
Fire, John and John great and 

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00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,680
small, early battles, the 
kingmaker in the North, War of 5

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00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,280
Kings, the Harvest feast at 
winterfell Umber Lumber Kingdom 

140
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,880
in Jeopardy, Red Wedding, Gray 
beards and green boys, Hor's 

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00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,880
Bane and Bolton, Crowfood and 
Stannis on the way to Skagos. 

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00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,680
Our quote of the week sigil is 
coming, Fallout zone, hard home,

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00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,680
and we'll end with down but not 
outro. 

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00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,400
We also have a pole for you. 
All those of you live can catch 

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00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,840
the pole and if you're catching 
it afterwards, you, especially 

146
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,919
if you're on Spotify, you should
be able to see the pole if you 

147
00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:43,400
click through. 
The question is will Great John 

148
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,720
meet his end? 
Meaning will he his death in the

149
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,800
South, in the North versus human
foes, in the north versus 

150
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,080
supernatural foes, or he will 
survive? 

151
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,280
He won't die at all. 
Four choices, SN versus humans, 

152
00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,960
N versus supernatural foes, or 
he will survive. 

153
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,720
Despite their placement in the 
extreme N, there isn't much by 

154
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,800
way of foreshadowing to suggest 
the Umbers will be involved 

155
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,360
against the Others. 
But how could they not? 

156
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,600
I mean, they're right there, but
Great John is a prisoner in the 

157
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,400
South, far, far away from the 
North. 

158
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,360
What's he How's he going to 
fight the Others when he's down 

159
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,600
there, especially in prison, but
there and there's a lot of 

160
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,120
people he wants to kill down 
there, assuming he ever gets out

161
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,600
of prison. 
So he's got well, there's just a

162
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,080
lot of people he wants to kill 
North and South. 

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00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,960
And you know, if if we're 
talking about the others, 

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00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,520
they're not people, but still 
they need killing. 

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00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,720
John Merkel sends a super chat, 
says and Aziz flew the horn of 

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00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,080
YouTube notifications and woke 
giants from a lazy Sunday 

167
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,400
afternoon. 
Nice. 

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00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,920
That's a good call. 
Actually appreciate that John 

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00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,120
and y'all could click that 
notification bell that you 

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00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,120
should see in the bottom right 
near where you click like and 

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00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,000
and share and all that to make 
sure you get notified whenever 

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00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,320
we go live. 
Let's get right to our first 

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00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,280
mention. 
The first time we hear the name 

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00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,040
umber in A Song of Ice and Fire 
is right here. 

175
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,000
Quote. 
Now he could only watch, peering

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00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,440
out through Maester Lewin's lens
tube. 

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00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,200
The Maester had taught him all 
the banners, the mailed Fist of 

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00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,680
the Glovers, silver on Scarlet 
Lady Mormont's black bear, the 

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00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:22,840
hideous flayed man that went 
before Ruth Bolton of the Dread 

180
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:28,120
Fort, a bull moose for the 
Hornwoods, a battle axe for the 

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00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,840
Kerwins, 3 Sentinel trees for 
the tall Hearts, and the 

182
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:39,040
fearsome sigil of house Umber a 
roaring giant in shattered 

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00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,640
chains. 
I always love when we're 

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00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,800
presenting a house and it's 
they're the one last listed in a

185
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,800
paragraph like this that really 
sets it up nicely for us. 

186
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,920
When they're in the middle, 
sometimes I cut it off so it 

187
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,320
acts like it's the end, but this
one was just perfect. 

188
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,760
And these aren't just for fun. 
These descriptions. 

189
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,400
This is setting us up to 
understand who these houses are.

190
00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,800
There's a lot of characters 
being introduced and a lot of 

191
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,440
houses. 
And these houses have, you know,

192
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,400
they have attitudes, they have 
themes, they have parallels 

193
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,320
within, within themselves. 
They have consistency of 

194
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,920
Physiology, villainy, goodness, 
etcetera. 

195
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,760
There's, there's patterns. 
And of course the pattern with 

196
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,720
the Umbers, well, there's 
several of them. 

197
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,800
They have many themes and 
recurring characteristics and 

198
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,400
traditions and, and patterns. 
And they, so they check off all 

199
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,760
those boxes. 
The most obvious is just how big

200
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,080
they are. 
Every Umber we've seen is big. 

201
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:40,280
We haven't seen a ton of them. 
Maybe Hor's Bane isn't huge, but

202
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,600
he is tall and all the others 
are like listed as giants or 

203
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,920
called giants. 
So that's definitely a factor 

204
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,800
that's notable and one of the 
first things you would see. 

205
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,600
And it's also a sign that the 
Umbers belong to the highest 

206
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,800
levels of Northern aristocracy. 
They're fierce fighters, but 

207
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,120
they're very devoted to the 
Starks and Winterfell and have 

208
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,240
been for a very long time. 
They've they've held their place

209
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,760
in the hierarchy for thousands 
of years and it hasn't really 

210
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,120
been challenged as far as we can
tell. 

211
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,080
Now here's one of their now 
here's the first appearance. 

212
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,360
We had the first mention, but 
there was no actual character. 

213
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,960
We just saw a banner and 
marching and all that. 

214
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,000
And this is one of the best, or 
at least most bad ass 

215
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,600
introductions for a character in
the entire series. 

216
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,600
Quote. 
When Lord Umber who was called 

217
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,040
the Great John by his men and 
stood as tall as Hodor and twice

218
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,720
as wide, threatened to take his 
forces home if he was placed 

219
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,480
behind the Hornwoods or the 
Kerwins in the Order of March, 

220
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,960
Rob told him he was welcome to 
do so. 

221
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,280
And when we are done with the 
Lannisters, he promised, 

222
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,240
scratching Gray wind behind the 
ear, we will March back N root 

223
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,040
you out of your key and hang you
for an oath breaker. 

224
00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,960
Cursing, the Great John flung a 
flagon of ale into the fire and 

225
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,200
bellowed that Rob was so green 
he must piss grass. 

226
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:09,960
When Hollis Mullen moved to 
restrain him, he knocked him to 

227
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,640
the floor, kicked over a table, 
and unsheathed the biggest, 

228
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,160
ugliest great sword that Bran 
had ever seen. 

229
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,360
All along the benches, his sons 
and brothers and sworn swords 

230
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,400
leapt to their feet, grabbing 
for their steel. 

231
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,200
Yet Rob only said a quiet word, 
and in a snarl and the blink of 

232
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,400
an eye, Lord Umber was on his 
back, his sword spinning on the 

233
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,720
floor 3 feet away and his hand 
dripping blood where Grey Wind 

234
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,800
had bitten off 2 fingers. 
My Lord father taught me that it

235
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,760
was death to bear steel against 
your lead, Lord, Rob said. 

236
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,360
But doubtless you only meant to 
cut my meat. 

237
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,880
Gran's bowels went to water as 
the great John struggled to 

238
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,640
rise, sucking at the red stumps 
of fingers. 

239
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,360
But then, astonishingly, the 
huge man laughed. 

240
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,840
Your meat. 
He roared his. 

241
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,280
Bloody tuff. 
And somehow after that, the 

242
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,600
great John became Rob's right 
hand, his staunchest champion, 

243
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,400
loudly telling all and sundry 
that the Boy Lord was a Stark 

244
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,280
after all, and they damn well 
better bend their knees if they 

245
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,560
didn't fancy having them chewed 
off. 

246
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:36,040
Yeah, a bit long, but so epic. 
Which is the actual first line 

247
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,400
here, Threatening to take his 
forces home. 

248
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,080
There's no actual words there. 
He just says threatened to take 

249
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,520
his forces home. 
So we don't actually hear what 

250
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,000
he said. 
It's just a description. 

251
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,120
Or was it Rob was so green that 
he must piss grass? 

252
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,520
Same thing. 
That's not an exact quote 

253
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,280
either. 
It's it's just a recounting of 

254
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,680
the words. 
Could it be your meat is bloody 

255
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,600
tough? 
Then the first exact quote. 

256
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,920
What is it doesn't really 
matter. 

257
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,560
All these are part of the 
picture. 

258
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,280
It's just fun. 
It's a big picture. 

259
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,640
Big quote, big man, big 
introduction. 

260
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,320
Now something a little odd here,
it says all along the bench is 

261
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,680
his sons and brothers and sworn 
swords left to their feet. 

262
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,120
There's no other mention of any 
brothers that he has. 

263
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,920
They he probably has them. 
We just haven't seen them. 

264
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,760
They're definitely there. 
I mean, the the appendix has 

265
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,080
them. 
There's no names for them. 

266
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,560
His other sons, well, we know 
Small John, we saw him and he 

267
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,960
dies, but we know he has other 
sons. 

268
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,880
We even know he has daughters, 
but we don't know any of their 

269
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,040
names. 
Also kind of interesting here, 

270
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,840
we should keep track of how he 
presents himself this issue of 

271
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,840
Pride. 
Is he really that upset about 

272
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,440
the possibility that he's going 
to be behind the Hornwoods and 

273
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,640
and Kerwin's? 
Or is he just testing Rob 

274
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,880
because of how he just flipped 
immediately? 

275
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,560
Given Rob's reaction, it's 
almost like, yeah, he wasn't 

276
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,000
really. 
He didn't really mean that he 

277
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,560
was testing him. 
And then when Rob passed with 

278
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,280
flying colors at the cost of 
some fingers that he may not 

279
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,600
have expected to lose. 
Great. 

280
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,240
John's ready to say, OK, well, 
you passed that test. 

281
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,800
I'm, I'm happy about that, even 
though it cost me two fingers. 

282
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,560
It's funny how it says he's then
he's Rob's right hand. 

283
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,160
Right hand with three fingers, 
you know? 

284
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,640
But anyway, Rob tells Bran that 
he was actually terrified in 

285
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,600
this moment. 
Later he's like, did you see how

286
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,080
big he was? 
I kept my cool, but barely. 

287
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,720
He managed to be brave. 
This is a really subtle, 

288
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,800
important moment. 
This is exactly playing out in 

289
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,400
real time right in front of us. 
The lesson Bran learned in 

290
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,520
chapter 1, how a man can only be
brave when he's afraid. 

291
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,920
Rob did that. 
He was perfectly. 

292
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,120
It was a perfect demonstration 
of that concept. 

293
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,120
Great John terrified him, but he
kept his cool, acted like a 

294
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,400
Stark and projected bravery. 
He was brave. 

295
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,480
He he conquered his fear in that
moment. 

296
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,960
So this so much about Bran's arc
is learning and being taught and

297
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,560
he's seven years old. 
I think this is a teachable 

298
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,800
moment that escaped a lot of our
notice on 1st read, second read,

299
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,800
third read even. 
Honestly, I didn't catch it till

300
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,960
this episode to be to be honest.
So Nina adds this moment with 

301
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,080
the great John comes in the 
context of Rob's bannerman 

302
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,960
trying to intimidate him. 
They're trying to it's these are

303
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,800
games of power. 
They're not going to follow 

304
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,520
someone soft. 
He has to be tested. 

305
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:12,440
It's better to test him now in 
peace, you know, and they're 

306
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,960
just hanging out at Winterfell 
and in battle, like that's not 

307
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,079
the time when you want to figure
out what he's really made of. 

308
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,319
So these things have to be 
figured out ahead of time. 

309
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,319
And if he is weak, well, then 
what would they do about it? 

310
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:25,440
I'm not sure exactly how they 
would they would behave. 

311
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,400
They would do something about 
it. 

312
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:29,520
It wouldn't it would not be they
wouldn't necessarily even mark 

313
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,040
South and be like, well, we're 
not going South with this weak 

314
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,640
leader to, you know, that's 
that's not a good idea. 

315
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,680
But Rob proved that the North, 
in a lot of ways, is kind of 

316
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,640
like the Free folk mentality or 
the Dothraki mentality. 

317
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,680
There's always this, a bit of 
this in all the Seven Kingdoms 

318
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,160
where, yeah, ultimately a lot of
things come down to following 

319
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,880
strength. 
Sometimes you don't know how 

320
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,760
strong someone is when they're 
new on the scene, as Rob was in 

321
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,120
this moment. 
Great John tested him. 

322
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,800
He passed again with flying 
colors. 

323
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,280
But of course, this is 
important. 

324
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,640
But Great John is not the only 
umber in the story. 

325
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,240
We already saw several unnamed 
ones in that scene. 

326
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,280
He's just the first one to 
appear. 

327
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:13,600
Let's keep moving, moving back 
in time to ancient history. 

328
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,320
Now there's a variety of 
terrains and neighbors that the 

329
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,160
Umbers have that really shape 
them and make them what they 

330
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,640
are. 
Having to deal with these 

331
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,720
different geographical features,
the the harshness and the 

332
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,760
people. 
There's the wall nearby, of 

333
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,920
course, just north and north and
West, the Bay of Seals north and

334
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,320
east right there on their coast,
Last River just to the South, 

335
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,960
sort of marking the barrier 
between them and the Boltons, 

336
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,440
along with the Lonely Hills. 
That's also between the two. 

337
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,880
There's also Long Lake, which is
the other side of Last River. 

338
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,080
So it goes Last River, then Long
Lake, then Lonely Hills, 

339
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:52,960
although the Long Lake is a 
little over to the West. 

340
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,600
And the Long Lake is important 
because it feeds the White 

341
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,440
Knife, and the White Knife is 
the biggest river in the north. 

342
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,720
There's also the northern 
mountains to the West where some

343
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,800
of the hill clans live. 
And that's the basic area that 

344
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,280
we're talking about here. 
Now, in the wildest unknown 

345
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,760
times, ancient, far back before 
written history, the Umbers 

346
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,360
emerged as an early power among 
the First Men. 

347
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,280
At least that's what we're told.
They became kings. 

348
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,400
They crowned themselves, held 
their territory. 

349
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,720
We don't know exactly where 
their domains stretched. 

350
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,600
Probably included a lot of those
features that we just mentioned.

351
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,240
They may have, you know, run 
into the Boltons in the South, 

352
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:34,960
and that would have been a 
barrier. 

353
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,640
The the sea would have been a 
barrier. 

354
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,200
Obviously the mountains are 
another barrier. 

355
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,640
But before the wall was there, 
it's interesting to think that 

356
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,120
they would have had a lot of 
contact with the tribes and 

357
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,280
clans that lived a little 
farther N before. 

358
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,680
There is a big ice wall barrier 
there. 

359
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,000
They probably even controlled 
the the region that is now ruled

360
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,360
by Carhold because there's no 
other major castle there and 

361
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,960
it's closest to them. 
They're the biggest Lords that 

362
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,280
are close to that region. 
It's a pretty substantial thing.

363
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,640
Let's talk about Last Star 
specifically. 

364
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,680
As I said, the intro is the 
farthest castle to the North, 

365
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,520
other than the Night's Watch 
castles of course, which by 

366
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,880
extension means some of the 
worst winters that any of the 

367
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,600
North has to face, generally 
speaking. 

368
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,720
Now, this has a large impact on 
their culture and how they view 

369
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,440
the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. 
Even in the North, they're as 

370
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:31,640
far from the Kranigman in White 
Harbor as King's Landing is from

371
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,640
the border with Dorn. 
It's really far. 

372
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,480
So we have to not think of, even
though we do think of the North 

373
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,560
as a monolith, rather we can't 
think of it internally that way.

374
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,480
It's so vast and the cultures of
the southern part of the north 

375
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,000
versus the northern part of the 
north, there's substantial 

376
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,000
differences. 
Now they do have this coastland,

377
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,920
the the Bay of Seals. 
There's a lot of coastland they 

378
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,600
control. 
There's no port, no major port, 

379
00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,800
but surely there's some minor 
ports. 

380
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,120
There's got to be places to park
a ship and bring cargo in and 

381
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:08,000
out, but nothing major. 
Last Hearth itself is very well 

382
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,320
inland. 
It's even not on the last river.

383
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,400
It's got a bit of distance from 
that Even. 

384
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,320
So it's a little unusual spot, 
not quite typical for what you 

385
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,120
would think. 
I'm sure there's reasons, but 

386
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,440
probably like just a good forest
and good hunting land. 

387
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,560
I don't know, maybe there's some
reason they built it away from 

388
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,000
the river anyway. 
So having a kingship in your 

389
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,960
past, any Westerosi house that's
been kings in the past, it's 

390
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,200
like an extra point of pride. 
They're they're never going to 

391
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,560
forget that. 
They're like, yeah, we were 

392
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,160
kings a long time ago. 
It's just a little thing that 

393
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,080
gives them a leg up with other 
nobility. 

394
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,440
You know, they care about those 
things. 

395
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,360
It's like, yeah, we got a little
extra standing because we were 

396
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:44,080
kings one day. 
But like all the North, they 

397
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,680
were eventually made subject to 
Winterfell. 

398
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,760
Must have been pretty 
interesting before that 

399
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,160
considering the there's buffers 
between them and Winterfell sort

400
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,200
of either geographically or you 
know, the Bolton's are there and

401
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,880
so they may have been one of the
last houses to fall. 

402
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,720
I think they they fell before 
the Dread Fort did though I 

403
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,440
believe as, or at least 
depending on what you count, 

404
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,040
because the Dread Fort rose up 
several times and we don't hear 

405
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,520
about the Umbers ever rebelling 
against the Stark. 

406
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,840
Now there's a lot of unknown 
history out there, a lot of 

407
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,240
northern history that we aren't 
Privy to, but still, as best as 

408
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,080
we can tell, the Umbers have 
been extremely strong, loyal 

409
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,680
vassals. 
Now there's also a suggestion 

410
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,080
during the books that the Umbers
are less likely to engage in 

411
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,000
infighting than most houses. 
Maybe this is just a current 

412
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,280
thing. 
The current Umbers say that, but

413
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,640
it's a recurring feature of 
houses that exist in dangerous 

414
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,640
places, frontier houses, border 
houses, houses with a lot of 

415
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,760
violent neighbors because you 
just can't afford to fight 

416
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,400
yourself when you have all these
dangers at your door. 

417
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,000
Like you damage yourself and 
then the enemy takes advantage 

418
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,480
of that weak to say, hey, 
they're fighting each other, 

419
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,400
let's get them. 
You just can't afford that. 

420
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,360
There's just no room for it. 
It's just you do that and you're

421
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:04,360
all done for it. 
It's suicidal, so that doesn't 

422
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,600
just make it a thing not to do. 
It's like taboo. 

423
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,120
It's a deeper taboo. 
You know, there's already this 

424
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,160
taboo, right? 
It's already a kin slaying is 

425
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,080
already a major taboo and so is 
guest right, which can relate 

426
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,840
to, you know, family squabbles. 
You're not going to just stab 

427
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,200
someone over dinner if they're 
your guests, not in the north 

428
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,920
anyway, or if you do, you risk 
serious social consequences, if 

429
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,120
not more. 
So that's interesting to note 

430
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,960
that how kin slaying in this 
their situation as it exists vis

431
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,440
a vis so many enemies around 
them. 

432
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,240
They just that makes them more 
whole. 

433
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,800
You know, they can't afford 
infighting, not that they don't 

434
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,760
ever, but it's just really not 
pragmatic for them to do so. 

435
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,920
Arguably the safety and security
of the Iron Throne would 

436
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,560
actually ironically give them 
more ability to infight. 

437
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,000
They're less worried about 
what's around them, but not that

438
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,840
much less worried. 
Sure they're maybe no longer 

439
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,680
worried about the Bolton's, but 
they still have Skagos and the 

440
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,360
Wall beating free folk Raiders 
and whatever else. 

441
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:13,480
So it's not like the dangers 
vanished just because they went 

442
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,680
under the Iron Throne. 
Think about this. 

443
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,720
The Starks, when Rob marched S 
that he left, they didn't leave 

444
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,360
that many men to guard 
Winterfell. 

445
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,000
I'm not saying this was a 
mistake, but it did backfire. 

446
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,680
They weren't like who were they 
worried about? 

447
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,720
The Sirwin's attacking them? 
White Harbor, that's just not 

448
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,680
feasible. 
It wasn't like that's not their 

449
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,360
enemies. 
That would be crazy for them to 

450
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,000
do that. 
They didn't see the Ironborn 

451
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,320
coming. 
To be fair, Theon's plan was 

452
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,760
dumb, or at least it would at 
least the full extension of it 

453
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,440
was dumb. 
If he had just captured the 

454
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,760
Stark airs and ran away, that 
would have been pretty smart, 

455
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,040
but then he wouldn't have held 
the castle and we wouldn't be 

456
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,160
having this conversation. 
So that's the idea is that the 

457
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,200
North a lot of times is it's 
been so safe within itself for 

458
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,880
so long that these houses can 
feel like they have that 

459
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,840
security. 
And this plays out, we'll see a 

460
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,760
little later. 
Great John takes too many men 

461
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,040
South and that might cause 
problems down the road. 

462
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,560
So Winterfell didn't really have
dangerous neighbors in current 

463
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,840
times, unless you count, you 
know, far to the South. 

464
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,960
The Bolton's had been peaceable 
for hundreds and hundreds of 

465
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,200
years. 
So even even they weren't 

466
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,920
considered a danger at this 
time. 

467
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,240
So let's go through some of 
these neighbors, a little more 

468
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,280
specifically the wall. 
Well, the Free Folk Raiders are 

469
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320
going to come from the north and
the northwest, mostly the north.

470
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:36,840
Like they'd skirt around the 
wall. 

471
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,520
They get those little, small 
little boats and, and either if,

472
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,840
if they're not climbing over the
wall, they're boating around it 

473
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,360
and landing right in umber 
territory. 

474
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,280
So the umbers are very likely 
the northern house that hates 

475
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,200
free Folk the most. 
There's lots of evidence of 

476
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,760
this, lots of little anecdotes 
here and there. 

477
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,280
And it just stands to reason 
they are the northern house that

478
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,560
would fight the Free Folk the 
most. 

479
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,520
The wall isn't a house, right? 
They would fight the free folk 

480
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,560
more, but of of actual houses, 
the Umbers would see them the 

481
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:05,400
most. 
They're right there. 

482
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,240
They're the closest to them. 
It's it's pretty much just 

483
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,040
proximity. 
Skagos is right there too, to 

484
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,120
the northeast. 
Skagos is part of the Seven 

485
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:14,120
Kingdoms. 
There's no castles there. 

486
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,560
Maybe now it's not such a 
problem. 

487
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,360
It probably was during the 
Skagosi Rebellion that we 

488
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,320
covered in our Barth Blacksword 
episode fairly recently. 

489
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,080
But in current times, I don't 
think the Stoneborn raid them 

490
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,480
very much. 
I don't think it's a problem 

491
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,200
anymore, but I bet it was a 
problem in all times. 

492
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,080
And a little later, we'll 
discuss the possibility that 

493
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,320
there's a genetic, if not 
cultural, connection between 

494
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,960
Skagos and Last Hearth. 
So South, of course, is the 

495
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,760
Dreadforth. 
That's one of the scariest ones.

496
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,360
But the Umbers aren't going to 
be scared of the Dreadforth. 

497
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,120
They're not scared of anybody. 
That's not the kind of energy 

498
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,080
they project. 
They have to be tough, strong, 

499
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,080
and and they can't share that 
kind of weakness. 

500
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,120
Still, it's scary to have the 
Boltons right there. 

501
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,480
I'm sure there have been some 
untold stories that would be 

502
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,680
very entertaining if we had them
between those two houses. 

503
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,800
There's a lot of terrain between
them that keeps them a little 

504
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,840
somewhat separate. 
There's again Last River and the

505
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,400
Lonely Hills. 
That's a pretty substantial 

506
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,640
border. 
Winterfell, of course, 

507
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,280
eventually dominated them. 
We don't know when it's to their

508
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,440
southwest from Last Hearth, but 
it's safe to say it's been 

509
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,480
thousands of years and they've 
been a good vassal ever since. 

510
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:25,160
To the West is the Glovers. 
But in between that is a lot of 

511
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,040
hills and mountains and hill 
clans. 

512
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,240
So I don't know that the Glovers
are really a neighbor. 

513
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,520
They would be maybe the closest 
house to the West, but that 

514
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,840
doesn't necessarily make them a 
neighbor. 

515
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,160
So I'm not sure that there would
be enmity between them. 

516
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,840
I would guess there isn't. 
But you know, we're talking 

517
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,920
about 8000 years of history. 
It's this isn't a monolith 

518
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,680
either. 
Maybe some border scuffles, but 

519
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,120
who knows. 
This is so many mounds between 

520
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:48,560
the two. 
Maybe it's just not a problem. 

521
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,440
And again, as I said, in those 
mountains between them, there 

522
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,960
are hill clans and hill tribes 
and, and some of that. 

523
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,520
So those may have been Raiders 
in old times. 

524
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,200
They're even, they have less 
stuff even than some free folk 

525
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,680
do. 
If humans even lived up there 

526
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,000
back then, they probably did. 
Nowadays it's more peaceful. 

527
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,720
The umbers graze their sheep up 
in those high meadows. 

528
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,320
They take them up to those hills
and it's good grazing land up 

529
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,960
there. 
And of course, car hold was 

530
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,120
eventually added roughly, you 
know, 1000 years or so. 

531
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,000
And that may have taken some 
umber land away from them. 

532
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,200
There may have been a little bit
of, hey, we're not really using 

533
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,480
that land, but we don't want to 
just give it up for nothing. 

534
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,440
Maybe they got a little kick 
back from the Starks for giving 

535
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,640
that up. 
Who knows. 

536
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,560
But it's that very likely was a,
an interesting episode when that

537
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,280
when the car when car hold was 
founded. 

538
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,320
Now, of course, the Free folk, 
out of all these enemies and 

539
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,120
neighbors, it's the free folk we
hear about the most. 

540
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,920
And a good example would be 3000
years ago, the story of Gendel 

541
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,200
and Gorn, those famous Free Folk
brothers who led the the Free 

542
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,720
Folk as kings be on the wall, 
the joint kings be on the wall 

543
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,400
and using tunnels to get under 
the wall. 

544
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,960
It's interesting anecdote 
because it suggests maybe those 

545
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,120
tunnels are still there. 
Maybe they connect to those worm

546
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,760
ways where the there's all that 
storage down there where they 

547
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,960
keep a lot of food. 
But the Umbers and the Starks 

548
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,480
defeated Gendel and Gorn 
together. 

549
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,160
As is often the case, this is 
more examples where it's not the

550
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,280
whole N that fights the Free 
Folk, it's the Starks and the 

551
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,040
Umbers. 
No one else is even part of it. 

552
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,600
There's a couple of examples 
like that, and we got to assume 

553
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,320
that because there's a couple 
that we do here and so much 

554
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,200
untold history. 
There's probably a lot more 

555
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,080
examples where it was just 
Umbers or just Umbers and Starks

556
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,640
fighting. 
Free Folk can be on the wall or 

557
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,120
otherwise. 
Let's get into who they are as a

558
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,760
people umber culture. 
According to Elio Garcia, their 

559
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,360
motto is Death before chains, 
and it's probably these are from

560
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,760
George but not published. 
Usually when Elio gives US1 like

561
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,040
that, you can generally assume 
it came from George, although 

562
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,360
that doesn't mean George settled
on it. 

563
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,480
So this is not unlikely what 
their words are, but we're not 

564
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,040
100% sure. 
Nina, who loves to do house 

565
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,960
words and does a great job of 
it, came up with only loyalty 

566
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,720
can bind. 
They're very loyal. 

567
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,440
The chains thing is the bound 
part, the binding, and how 

568
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,520
that's the only thing that 
they're willing to be bound by. 

569
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Anything else they will not. 
They will break those chains, 

570
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,280
but loyalty to the Starks, that 
will bind them, but nothing 

571
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,240
else. 
That's pretty clever. 

572
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,640
I like that. 
Certainly gives a good summary 

573
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,280
of their vibe in 4 words as best
as 4 words could do. 

574
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,520
Remember the old relativity 
comment that comes in both book 

575
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,560
and show. 
And by the way, there's going to

576
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,120
be almost no mention of the show
in this episode. 1 little thing 

577
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,600
at the end and that's it Where 
and this is true and the reason 

578
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,040
I point out the show here is 
because it's such a true 

579
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,360
comment. 
It's like, well, the South is 

580
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,560
relative to where you're 
standing right? 

581
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,000
Like it Grit tells John that 
he's a southerner. 

582
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,320
He's like what? 
I'm not a southern. 

583
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,320
He's like you are to me, you 
know. 

584
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,000
Well, the free folk might not 
consider umbers Southerners may 

585
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800
be very in the strictest sense, 
but the umbers could consider 

586
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,400
every other Westerosse southern 
to them, except maybe this could

587
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,200
go see, and of course the 
Night's Watch and even them they

588
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,640
would consider maybe equal, not 
more so northern with that, with

589
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,680
all the pride mixed in. 
They wouldn't easily let go of 

590
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,080
that title, but they have a 
strong claim to it without the 

591
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,600
pride. 
Toughness is emphasized in their

592
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:25,400
culture, size is emphasized, and
this is not uncommon for real 

593
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,240
world things. 
You got people in harsh wintery 

594
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,080
climates, animals to not just 
people, they tend to be larger 

595
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,880
because you have to be bigger to
survive in those climates. 

596
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,960
It's like the survival of the 
fittest kind of thing. 

597
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,880
Larger animals survive in 
wintery climbs because they have

598
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,560
more mass to protect their 
internal organs to keep them 

599
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,640
warm. 
It's just as simple as that 

600
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,280
really, you know, in terms of 
evolution and things like that. 

601
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,600
So the Umbers are big in part 
because of where they live. 

602
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840
They face winter from all 
directions that the the younger 

603
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,040
kids that aren't strong enough 
just don't make it. 

604
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960
Pre Stark conquest they would 
have been even tougher because 

605
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:01,800
they would have been defending 
their own lands and there 

606
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,000
wouldn't have been this unity in
the north, let alone the Seven 

607
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,600
Kingdoms. 
It's tempting to connect them 

608
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,400
with giant's blood. 
Here's that thing I mentioned 

609
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,680
earlier about Skagos, the 
Stoneborn. 

610
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:17,840
The Skagosi have a maester have 
maesterly support for the idea 

611
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,840
that there's giant's blood or at
least Ebenez blood, which might 

612
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,960
be the same thing because the 
Ebenez might have giant's blood 

613
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,160
in their ancient history. 
So that makes it by itself, that

614
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,560
makes it not tinfoily right. 
They you have majorly support 

615
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,560
for at least the concept, if not
the truth of this. 

616
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,720
And the Stoneborn are just right
next to the Umbers. 

617
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,720
They're just a short little hop 
over the sea there. 

618
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,560
It's a not very far at all. 
You, you can probably see Skagos

619
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,160
from the shoreline of Last or 
from the shoreline of Bay of 

620
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,400
Seals there on their coast. 
So it may even be that it was 

621
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,360
early people in the region of 
Last Hearth that first took that

622
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,480
journey. 
Like, hey, we can see that 

623
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,760
island. 
Has anyone ever gone there? 

624
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,600
Some great people finally went 
there and started living there. 

625
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,400
I, I kind of imagine that's how 
Skagos was first settled because

626
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,440
I doubt people just started on 
that island. 

627
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,840
I mean, unless people were on it
when it's separated from the 

628
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,560
continent and during continental
drift, who knows how long ago. 

629
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,960
Doesn't seem very likely in the 
real world. 

630
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,160
Most islands get are empty to 
start off with, except maybe 

631
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,200
animals, and then people move 
there and then they have people.

632
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,120
See, it's hard to say islands 
start with people on them. 

633
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,560
So yeah. 
So Skagos probably was populated

634
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,200
by the closest population group,
which would have been the same 

635
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,000
population group that became the
Umbers or was already the 

636
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,080
Umbers. 
So yeah, giants blood in that 

637
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,720
area. 
I mean, it fits for a lot of 

638
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:37,320
reasons. 
You do. 

639
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,400
Giants live right there to the 
north. 

640
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,720
And we already know that it's 
possible for the two species to 

641
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,400
breed at least a little. 
But so yeah. 

642
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,280
But yeah, but but supported by 
what we know is interesting. 

643
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,640
Thinking of yourself as more 
Northern is kind of an 

644
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,160
interesting concept. 
It's like it's a, it is a point 

645
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,480
of pride. 
You think of yourself more 

646
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,120
Northern kind of is code for 
tougher. 

647
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,160
But it's fun to think of the few
things that they do like about 

648
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,280
the South. 
They're like, yeah, you know, 

649
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,120
they're soft, they're weak, they
can't handle cold or toughness 

650
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,719
or anything like that. 
They do like the wine though. 

651
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,480
Like y'all do make good wine 
now, man. 

652
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,520
That's one thing you guys do, 
right. 

653
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:18,440
We see Craster when he gets 
wine, he just gets completely 

654
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,800
drunk and passes out and he's 
hungover the next day. 

655
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,199
They don't get enough of it down
there. 

656
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,520
And of course, there's a lot of 
drinking in northern climates. 

657
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,000
That's a frequent thing. 
You know, there's a lot of 

658
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,840
drinking in a lot of real world 
places that have cold weather 

659
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,159
year round. 
It's just just kind of goes with

660
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:39,600
the train. 
You can't go outside as much. 

661
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,120
And yeah, you don't have a 
drink. 

662
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,960
You know, it's just, I don't 
exactly know why it works that 

663
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,719
way, but it is a thing. 
And a lot of the Umbers drink a 

664
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,800
lot, so that very much fits. 
So they're isolated. 

665
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,200
They live in relatively untamed 
lands, but don't make the 

666
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,360
mistake of thinking of them as 
rustic or simple. 

667
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,680
They're powerful Lords with a 
lot of land beyond that 

668
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,080
toughness that they bring to the
table too. 

669
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,400
So they don't necessarily have a
high population, but the 

670
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,560
individuals in that population 
count for a lot in times of war.

671
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:22,080
And there's got to be some level
of savviness to managing their 

672
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,760
their territory. 
They've been running it for 

673
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,040
thousands of years. 
They have to have a lot of 

674
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,440
closeness to their own land, a 
lot of familiarity, a lot of 

675
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,320
experience, and just a lot of 
know how that they've built up 

676
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,800
over the years. 
Arguably, I think they have more

677
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,080
in, we're talking earlier about 
the differences in the North and

678
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,320
how there's different like 
subcultures within the N, big 

679
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,120
differences like White Harbor 
compared to Last Hearth or the 

680
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,960
Kranigman compared to Last 
Hearth or even White Harbor. 

681
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,200
I would say the group that the 
Umbers have the most in common 

682
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,960
with is the hill clans. 
The hill tribes of the farther N

683
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,320
they're closer to the ancient 
North than most of the rest of 

684
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,160
the North. 
And the Umbers have that same 

685
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,360
sort of thing going on when Arya
sees them at the Red Wedding, 

686
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,920
the umbers are sitting with the 
car Starks and the hill clans. 

687
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,160
That's who they dine with. 
That's who they are closest 

688
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,800
with. 
You can tell a lot by who people

689
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,600
sit with when they're, you know,
having down time, like where the

690
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,600
groups gather, like who do they 
who sits with who? 

691
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,520
You don't see the the malasters 
or the other rivermen or any, 

692
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,360
they're not sitting with the 
umbers and carstarks. 

693
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,440
You don't see the the White 
Harbor men sitting with the 

694
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,800
umbers and carstarks. 
It's details like this are 

695
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,240
really important. 
And George is so good at filling

696
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:38,280
in all this important detail 
with little moments like that. 

697
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,160
Like it's easy to just look at 
that and see it as its general 

698
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,600
description. 
Are you looking around, seeing 

699
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,440
things that she recognizes? 
But seeing them grouped together

700
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,520
like that is telling. 
Cannibalism is practiced a lot. 

701
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,520
Well, not a lot, but compared to
anywhere else, it's practiced a 

702
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,840
lot in the North. 
And you we can see why it 

703
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,040
happens in the extreme N there's
just deprivation, there's 

704
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,640
starvation, there's risk of 
complete food scarcity. 

705
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,280
And so well, as has been said a 
few times, disgustingly, but 

706
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,360
truly, men are meat. 
Yeah, not the kind of meat I'll 

707
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,400
ever eat, I hope. 
Same with you all. 

708
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,200
But we can't deny that it's a 
thing in the extreme N that's 

709
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,760
not a thing that happens in the 
Kranigs or around White Harbor, 

710
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,760
at least not in current times. 
But it might still happen on 

711
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,960
Skagos beyond the wall. 
It definitely happens in 

712
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,480
Stannis's army. 
Like it. 

713
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,160
It's a good example of people 
that don't have a practice of 

714
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,720
doing that. 
They aren't like used to 

715
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,520
cannibalism. 
They just got that desperate 

716
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,280
living in those climates that 
these people live in all the 

717
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,600
time. 
You know, the, the, the 

718
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,720
Stannis's men were not used to 
that. 

719
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:52,400
But anyone that's freezing and 
starving, whether you live there

720
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,960
or not, is going to be faced 
with a similar, you know, issue,

721
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,040
similar conundrum. 
You know, do I, do I eat this 

722
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,640
dead person or do I risk dying 
myself? 

723
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,080
It's a horrible place to be. 
I also am curious about how the 

724
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,400
Umbers relate to the Night's 
Watch. 

725
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,480
We, of course, have no doubt 
that they are very supportive of

726
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,000
the Night's Watch. 
They, as we said earlier, they 

727
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,920
are very often help the Starks 
fight kings, be on the wall. 

728
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,000
There's been several examples of
that, but I almost wonder if 

729
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,920
Umbers are less likely to join 
the Nights Watch for the simple 

730
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,320
fact that they already are doing
a lot of what the Nights Watch 

731
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,800
does. 
They are the number one. 

732
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,120
I don't even call it second line
of defense. 

733
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,400
They're like the 1 1/2 line of 
defense because free folk can 

734
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,640
easily skirt the wall when 
they're on the coast with those 

735
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,520
little rafts and boats. 
So they're already just fighting

736
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,480
the free folk constantly. 
They're already dealing with 

737
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,400
them, which is most of what the 
Nights Watch does, except in the

738
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,880
very narrow period of time when 
the others are active. 

739
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,560
So I don't know, I think maybe 
the umber's like, yeah, well, my

740
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,040
life would be like, why would I 
join the Nights Watch when I'm 

741
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,440
already doing that here? 
And I can, you know, have a 

742
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,680
relationship with a woman and, 
you know, or multiple, whatever 

743
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:04,080
to do the things that, well, how
would I sign my life away when 

744
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,000
I'm already kind of doing that? 
Like, I'm already providing this

745
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,360
service to the north. 
I don't need to join the Nights 

746
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,040
Watch. 
So they would support it, but 

747
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,000
they, you know, I don't know 
that they would be as keen to 

748
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,080
join. 
It's kind of an interesting 

749
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,880
little irony there. 
I could be completely wrong, but

750
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,080
it just occurred to me that, 
yeah, wow. 

751
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,480
You know, they were already kind
of doing that. 

752
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,280
And given this, given all these 
northern values that you'd think

753
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,440
would be closerly closer held to
them, they would be more 

754
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:28,880
traditional about a lot of 
things. 

755
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,720
Kinsling guest, right? 
Things like that would matter 

756
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:33,240
more to them than it would to 
others. 

757
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:40,520
Which keep in mind when we 
discuss the potential revenge 

758
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,520
for the perpetrators of the Red 
Wedding, 'cause that's a 

759
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,720
violation of guests, right? 
Right. 

760
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:48,560
So like, the Umbers would be 
more mad about that than most 

761
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,000
houses. 
And this is of course, rooted in

762
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,520
belief in the Old Gods, which 
they also keep more closely to 

763
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,680
the chest or to the heart, to 
the heart tree, ha, than a lot 

764
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,920
of other Northerners would. 
Because they still keep those 

765
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,280
old ways. 
There has been less Southern 

766
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,600
influence on them. 
Like there aren't, you know. 

767
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,160
Lots of southerners coming and 
going and interacting with umber

768
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:14,040
lands and, you know, spreading, 
amalgamating and conglomerating.

769
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,760
It's just the umbers are 
isolated. 

770
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,320
They're remote. 
There aren't lots of people 

771
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,920
coming up there to hang out and 
spread stories and share news 

772
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,920
from elsewhere. 
It's just not a place people go.

773
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,240
It's not a tourist stop. 
It's not a destination that 

774
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:28,760
people travel for fun. 
Yeah. 

775
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,400
So they're they're a bit that's 
that's where that isolation 

776
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:36,480
comes from. 
Let's talk about the old gods at

777
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,880
last heart. 
Let's get deeper into that, 

778
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,160
because this was a good set up 
for that, talking about the 

779
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,640
nights watch and kinsling and 
guest right and all that. 

780
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,120
Roose Bolton claims the umbers 
still practice first night. 

781
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,280
Not that he's the most 
trustworthy source, but this is 

782
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,040
a comment he makes to Theon. 
I don't know that there's much 

783
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,520
reason he has to lie about that.
Now. 

784
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,120
Maybe Roose Bolton could just be
one of those guys who just lies 

785
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,680
for the hell of it. 
But I don't that's a little 

786
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,280
weird for an author to do for 
for Roose to like say that to 

787
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,400
somebody without a good reason 
to lie and it not be true just 

788
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,960
to throw us off. 
Like, why? 

789
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,280
Why would he throw us off about 
that? 

790
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,960
It seems that this is an idea 
that he's building in our minds 

791
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,800
that yeah, the Umbers, there's a
dark side to them, just like 

792
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,000
there are to a lot of northern 
houses, especially in ancient 

793
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,880
times, but also in current 
times. 

794
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,520
Maybe he but he doesn't just say
it's the Umbers. 

795
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,200
He says it's a lot of houses 
that are farther N the ones that

796
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,240
are still the most northern to 
keep continue to use that term 

797
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,800
are the ones that are most 
likely to still practice first 

798
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,960
night and other banned or 
frowned on rituals. 

799
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,720
Maybe this is part of why they 
are so big still. 

800
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:48,800
They constantly have children 
with the biggest people around 

801
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,280
they can find. 
I don't know. 

802
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:56,480
It might be rooted in rooted in 
our theory that we first 

803
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,600
published I think in like 2013 
or 2014, that it's the heart 

804
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,960
trees that have a supernatural 
effect on the House that they're

805
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,840
closest to it. 
It helps explain why so many 

806
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,720
northern houses, especially, but
also some southern houses have a

807
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:15,440
look that has perpetrated and 
existed for so long. 

808
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:18,040
Obviously George has changed how
his genetics work. 

809
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,120
But still, even with that, it's 
like, well, how does how do they

810
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,200
still look like this thousands 
of years later? 

811
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,360
Well, if it's a supernatural 
reason, it could be the very 

812
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,800
thing that has always been a 
part of their house, always been

813
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,520
a part of their castle. 
This heart tree has been there 

814
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,800
forever and it its powers go 
farther back. 

815
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,760
Its memories are infinite. 
I don't know relating that to 

816
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,120
first night is well, first night
is no matter how you look at it,

817
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,360
it's a disturbing subject. 
But magical bloodlines adds a 

818
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,960
fantasy element to that. 
That is curious, shall we say, 

819
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,240
because if you're going around 
first knighting a bunch of women

820
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:57,560
in your domain and you have like
magical giant's blood that ever 

821
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,800
that anyone you have children 
with is going to pass out, some 

822
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,280
of them might actually want 
that. 

823
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,560
Because it's like I'm going to 
have strong giant sons like how 

824
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,880
some of the free folk women 
talk. 

825
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,160
Of course, a lot of them would 
not want that at all. 

826
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,160
It's just that's what makes a 
disturbing subject. 

827
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,040
But the fantasy element is what 
makes it really like, I don't 

828
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,600
really want to think about this,
but there is some validity to it

829
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,720
in terms of a world building 
subject. 

830
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,520
The tales told of the Raiders 
from the White Knife and Brandon

831
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,920
Ice Ice Stark that before White 
Harbor was a thing indicate that

832
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,720
sacrifice to heart trees and 
bloody similar rituals like 

833
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:37,920
hanging entrails in the trees 
was sort of normal. 

834
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,320
And if it was sort of normal 
back then, only a 500,000 years 

835
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,080
ago, and we're told that certain
northern houses, the most 

836
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,000
northerly, still practice some 
of the old ways. 

837
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,240
This might be one of them. 
We might still have umbers or 

838
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:56,200
umber subjects who are 
sacrificing to their heart, 

839
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,360
trees, people, animals, I don't 
know. 

840
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:04,320
But still, the idea is strong. 
They're not going to care about 

841
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,560
the the Seven Kingdoms 
mainstream culture. 

842
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,800
They're hardly exposed to it. 
They don't give a crap about the

843
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,320
Seven, specifically the gods. 
Why would they? 

844
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,640
When winter comes, what good are
the Seven? 

845
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,080
The Seven don't even. 
There's nothing in their 

846
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,760
literature about preventing 
winter, about dealing with it, 

847
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,200
you know? 
And not even that they care 

848
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,400
about the literature. 
Most northerners and umber 

849
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,080
people wouldn't even be able to 
read. 

850
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,000
The Seven aren't being forced on
them like and all culture didn't

851
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,440
get that far, especially not to 
Last Hearth. 

852
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,560
But there's still obviously 
still aware of it and would look

853
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,000
down on it for the most part, 
and it certainly wouldn't appeal

854
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,120
to them as a choice. 
These are stoic, hardened, 

855
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,440
stubborn, proud folk that have 
lived a certain way for 

856
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,960
thousands of years, and they'll 
be damned if they're going to 

857
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,400
change. 
For some Southerners, right? 

858
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,560
This is a this, all this stuff 
with the Sacrifice and the First

859
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,240
Night and the maybe the 
Bloodlines and some of this 

860
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:57,120
other dark stuff. 
This gets us into a different 

861
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,080
genre. 
George always plays with horror,

862
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,800
but this becomes more like folk 
horror. 

863
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,120
This gets to be like that rustic
horror that you see, like the 

864
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,480
people that are far out in the 
country that are doing dark 

865
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:07,720
things. 
You know, you occasionally see 

866
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:11,520
that in TV or movies or books. 
This is some of that vibe. 

867
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,520
It's not just the straight 
horror, supernatural horror 

868
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:14,560
vibe. 
It gets into that. 

869
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,480
Like, what are these country 
bumpkins doing behind closed 

870
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,320
doors? 
They're not really country 

871
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,840
bumpkins, but you could see my 
point. 

872
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,360
That is how they're portrayed 
often in these stories. 

873
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,080
Well, what else do we have here?
What other Northern concepts 

874
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,960
haven't we touched on? 
Skin changing is 1. 

875
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,640
What do they think of skin 
changers? 

876
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,800
Southern Northerners maybe shun 
skin changing more than 

877
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,920
northerners. 
Northern Northerners do. 

878
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,400
The closer to the Free Folk, the
closer to the wall you get, the 

879
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,600
less they have a problem with 
such things. 

880
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,920
Generally speaking. 
We certainly don't have any 

881
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,240
examples of umber's attitude 
towards skin changing. 

882
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,840
Of course, they're certainly 
happy to have Greywind alongside

883
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,720
their king there, and they might
be. 

884
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,360
It might have occurred to them, 
you know, that there might be 

885
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,960
something going on there, but 
they wouldn't have a problem 

886
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,760
with it. 
Not at least not the Umbers or 

887
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,640
the Carstarks or the other 
extremely northern ones. 

888
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,720
Maybe not any of them, but 
certainly not the Umbers, right.

889
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:12,440
That seems like something they'd
be like, well, that's just a 

890
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,200
part of living up here, skin 
changing. 

891
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,080
That's something that happens. 
That's part of the North. 

892
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,040
It's, it's a factor here. 
We don't deny that it exists. 

893
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,240
We don't necessarily shun it or 
embrace it. 

894
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:28,320
It's just a fact of life. 
Let's move forward in history 

895
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,640
towards more recent times 
umber's almost certainly marched

896
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,360
with King Turin, as we said in 
the intro, saw the devastation 

897
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,600
of Harrenhal. 
It's pretty important to take 

898
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,000
note of that, though, because 
it's the Great John who undoes 

899
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:46,160
it, right? 
He's the one who boisterously 

900
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:51,040
and enthusiastically and 
suggests the restoration of this

901
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,480
Kingdom that ceased to exist 
when King Turin knelt. 300 years

902
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,000
later. 
It's the Great John of all 

903
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,600
people who undid that kneeling 
of King Turin. 

904
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,400
And as I said, there must have 
been Umbers present for that. 

905
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,760
The Umbers partly. 
I'm so sure the Umbers were 

906
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,560
present for two reasons. 1 The 
Umbers are very loyal to the 

907
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,800
Starks that have been for a long
time. 

908
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,160
That's the vibe we get. 2 Turin 
Starks's army was huge. 

909
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,040
It's almost impossible that he 
marched S with 40,000 men and 

910
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,800
didn't have the Umbers with him.
It would be very weird for the 

911
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,160
Umbers not to be present with 
40,000. 

912
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,920
Implies pretty much everybody, 
all the soldiers in the North 

913
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,520
went. 
Now what Great John says during 

914
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,600
his Kingdom that we should be 
independent speech. 

915
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,440
He says it was the Dragons that 
they married. 

916
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,480
Now he's using the term loosely.
But back in the day, oh man, 

917
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,120
that word got generated so many 
theories. 

918
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:47,720
We didn't know who Aegon the 
Conqueror and his sisters 

919
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:52,120
married besides each other, you 
know, or if he had daughters, 

920
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,160
which he didn't, But at the time
we were like, well, he might 

921
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,480
have. 
George didn't suggest that Aegon

922
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,280
had daughters for a while. 
Then he changed his mind on 

923
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:58,960
that. 
It was never official. 

924
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,480
It was just something he said 
behind the scenes. 

925
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,640
And then when he set it on, he 
was like, Nah, but that phrase, 

926
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,120
it was the Dragons. 
We married. 

927
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,560
It was like, wait, married. 
Did a Stark marry a Targaryen 

928
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,200
back in the day? 
That was all these theories that

929
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,320
flew out there. 
Maybe it was a mandolin. 

930
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:12,520
Maybe it was someone in some 
Northern. 

931
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:13,600
It probably would have been a 
Stark. 

932
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,480
But who was it? 
Or was it the other way around? 

933
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,600
Was it a Targaryen Princess 
coming N Whoa. 

934
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,160
Yeah. 
These theories were gone crazy 

935
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,840
back in the day. 
But of course, that amounted to 

936
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,280
nothing. 
But the point is when Great John

937
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,240
says that he's like, you know, 
it was the Dragons we bent the 

938
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:31,600
knee to. 
Why are we still bending the 

939
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:33,080
knee to them? 
There are not only are there no 

940
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,920
more Dragons, literally there's 
not even Targaryens. 

941
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,600
So they would follow how Stark, 
but Starks bent the knee to the 

942
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:41,480
Targaryens. 
They didn't. 

943
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,040
This is the Baratheons. 
We never lost to the Baratheons.

944
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,040
We never were outmatched by 
them. 

945
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,440
I don't know that we, you know 
that maybe our kneeling is 

946
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,880
invalid because we didn't ever 
kneel to them. 

947
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:57,520
When we get to deeper into the 
rule of the Dragons here, we'll 

948
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,560
call this Under the Dragons, as 
we've done many times, the theme

949
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,040
of umber isolation continues. 
They're not part of the big 

950
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,760
global events. 
For the most part. 

951
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,960
This is usually a good thing, or
at least often because a lot of 

952
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,560
times there's war umber just 
aren't a part of it. 

953
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,200
The whole N sometimes isn't a 
part of it. 

954
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:18,120
Very often there's a lot of 
Targaryen civil conflicts and 

955
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,640
other wars that the North just 
didn't participate in. 

956
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,040
Also, that includes things like 
plague. 

957
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,160
There's been lots of plagues 
throughout the Seven Kingdoms 

958
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,600
throughout the years, throughout
the decades. 

959
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,960
And the population centers, the 
places with the most traffic 

960
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,120
always get hit the hardest for 
obvious reasons. 

961
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,400
You know, more disease carriers 
going back and forth, more 

962
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,840
people to get infected. 
Well, what did I say earlier 

963
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,120
about how little traffic there 
is going up there? 

964
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,240
So that's just not as likely to 
hit like, you know, something 

965
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:46,120
like the shivers or grayscale or
whatever. 

966
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,600
It's just a lot less likely to 
hit up there because there's 

967
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:53,000
just people aren't going there. 
In the year 58, Queen Alice Anne

968
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,200
visited Last Hearth and other 
castles, like on the Wall and 

969
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,760
all that was around the same 
time that Queen's crown got its 

970
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,200
new name. 
Now, under most circumstances, 

971
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,400
the Umbers might be a little 
surly about the Targaryens. 

972
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,520
You know, like, yeah, who are 
you, soft Southerners? 

973
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,600
You know, they may not love the 
idea of a queen in the 1st place

974
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,520
thanks to, you know, the 
patriarchy or whatever, which is

975
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,240
fiercer in the North, especially
the extreme North, right. 

976
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,000
But they would have probably 
been curious to see her dragon. 

977
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,120
I mean, like, yeah, I do want to
see the dragon, but Alison was 

978
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,600
just so charismatic and a 
genuinely good ruler and she 

979
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,840
supported the watch, which 
probably sat very well with a 

980
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,440
lot of the northerners. 
And later, you know, a few years

981
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,280
later, the kings Rd. would be 
begin construction, and that was

982
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,440
probably a positive for the 
umbers as well. 

983
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,360
So ultimately they may have 
still like they their natural 

984
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,840
inclination would be to dislike 
the Targaryens and dislike 

985
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,080
Queens and and any kings too 
really that aren't Starks. 

986
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,160
But you know Alison being who 
she is and given the thing the 

987
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,240
services they did for the North 
Bay, she might have won them 

988
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:54,440
over. 
Don't know. 

989
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,800
Certainly the the Targaryens won
over Alaric Stark, maybe the 

990
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,160
embers followed that lead, don't
know. 

991
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,760
So the Kings Rd. did start 
building 4 years later in the 

992
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,680
year 62 AC. 
The Kings Rd. was meant to 

993
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,080
increase trade and traffic and 
to make the Seven Kingdoms a 

994
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,440
little closer to itself. 
Like each region would be less 

995
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,960
separate, it'd be more 
amalgamation, more 

996
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,920
homogenization of cultures. 
But Last Hearth still remains 

997
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,720
very isolated in some ways. 
A lot of that amalgamation would

998
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:25,360
happen. 
The center of the Seven 

999
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,120
Kingdoms, places like the 
Riverlands, the Crown lands, a 

1000
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,360
little bit like the Vale, 
certainly the Reach are all 

1001
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,840
growing closer to each other, 
whereas the North less so. 

1002
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,920
It's, it's not on that boat. 
They're all getting more like 

1003
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,600
each other and the Umbers and 
some of the other far Northern 

1004
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,400
houses are getting less and less
like them. 

1005
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,520
The isolation might be 
increasing, the differences 

1006
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,480
might be growing. 
The Mormont's come up a few 

1007
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,480
times as a good comparison 
because they're also as far 

1008
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,400
north and arguably even more 
isolated because they're on an 

1009
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,520
island. 
This is one of those times we 

1010
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,960
compare them. 
I think they're a good parallel 

1011
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,800
for a lot of reasons. 
Similar harsh environments, you 

1012
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,400
know, Winters got to be really 
terrible. 

1013
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,080
They have to face Ironborn 
Raiders instead of some of the 

1014
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:08,200
other foes. 
They don't want to face 

1015
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:13,120
Stoneborn over on on Bear 
Island, for example, the King's 

1016
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,280
Road, when it was finished, it 
actually goes through 

1017
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,440
umberlands. 
So that was cool for them. 

1018
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,560
They're like, hey, we've got a 
road going through our territory

1019
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,040
now. 
I assume they liked that. 

1020
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,920
It's possible they didn't, but 
it's most likely that was a good

1021
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,040
thing. 
And then once it passes N, it 

1022
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,680
goes into the Gift, which then 
of course then it hits Castle 

1023
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,960
Black. 
So to be clear though, the road 

1024
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,360
doesn't actually go that close 
to Last Heart, Last Hearth 

1025
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:41,480
itself, but it's still a big Rd.
relatively near it that wasn't 

1026
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,760
there before. 
And that would help travel 

1027
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,680
between it and other northern 
destinations. 

1028
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,320
Still doesn't make Last Hearth 
like a place people want to 

1029
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,560
travel to for vacation or just 
to see it for the heck of it. 

1030
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,200
It's just too remote for that, 
too dangerous. 

1031
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,400
Now a little more specifically 
in terms of wars of the South, 

1032
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,200
perhaps there were Umbers with 
Roddy the Ruin and or Craig and 

1033
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:03,960
Stark during the Dance of the 
Dragons. 

1034
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,960
Seems likely enough. 
There's probably some people 

1035
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,160
from all over the north that 
were in those armies. 

1036
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,280
May not have been any actual 
umbers, just umber men umber 

1037
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,560
vassals, lordlings, peasants, 
etcetera. 

1038
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,040
But there may have been a few 
actual umbers, who knows. 

1039
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:19,760
They weren't named. 
They're not a lot of other 

1040
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,560
northerners named in that group.
Craig and Roddy the Ruin and 

1041
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,880
that's about it. 
And the year 170. 

1042
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,160
So jumping ahead past the dance 
by several years with O'crake 

1043
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,040
and Stark was still the Lord in 
Winterfell. 

1044
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,480
There was a great melee at Last 
Hearth. 

1045
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,200
We're told the melees of the 
North are very vicious things, 

1046
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,840
and they're the equivalent of 
tournaments of the South. 

1047
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,720
They don't do jousting and 
things like that, but they do. 

1048
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,600
They do like the melees, and 
this melee was vicious. 

1049
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:52,520
Not 18 people died in this melee
and about 30 more were maimed, 

1050
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,640
badly hurt and perhaps 
permanently hurt. 

1051
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,120
And apparently these happen 
every once in a while. 

1052
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,840
And this is obviously during the
time under the Iron Throne. 

1053
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,280
You wonder if the great Malays 
of priests Targaryen times were 

1054
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,920
even worse. 
I I guess they probably were 

1055
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,600
around this time. 
This is when we get into the the

1056
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,960
trickiness of the Stark family 
tree in this era. 

1057
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:19,320
Kragen's the mess that is 
Kragen's three wives and the 

1058
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,120
inner marrying between his own 
descendants and the many deaths 

1059
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,480
and remarryings. 
And it's very confusing. 

1060
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,560
We it's something we've talked 
about in a few different 

1061
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,080
episodes, most recently again 
the Barth Black Sword episode 

1062
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:34,480
'cause he is one of those many 
heirs of Kragen and his 

1063
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,680
different wives there. 
So Kragen Stark's first heir 

1064
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,760
from his first wife Aronori was 
Rickon Stark. 

1065
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,200
Rickon, of course, died famously
in one of the last battles of 

1066
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,320
the conquest of Doran under the 
Young Dragon. 

1067
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,960
But before he died he had two 
daughters with his Manderly 

1068
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,240
wife. 
Those daughters were Sansa and 

1069
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,360
Serena. 
Serena married Lord John Umber 

1070
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,920
but he died without issue. 
They didn't have kids, and the 

1071
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,240
lordship seems to have passed to
an ozrich Umber. 

1072
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:13,760
Ozrich would have either been 
Lord John's son with a a 

1073
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,480
different wife that he married 
before Serena, or perhaps more 

1074
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,720
likely an uncle or a brother. 
Brother more likely than uncle, 

1075
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:24,480
but you never know. 
Anyway, at some point there was 

1076
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,480
an attempt to unite the Stark 
branches, these three different 

1077
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,680
branches that emerged from 
Kragen, right? 

1078
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,280
The middle branch was the kids 
with Black Alley Blackwood, and 

1079
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,160
we can kind of ignore them for 
this purposes of this 

1080
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,640
discussion. 
It was the match with the first 

1081
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,000
woman and the last that things 
got complicated with. 

1082
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:51,760
So Edrick Stark, second son of 
his third marriage, married the 

1083
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,400
same girl, Serena, after 
Serena's husband, Lord John 

1084
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,560
died. 
Now Serena and Edrick had four 

1085
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,560
kids of their own, Kregard, 
Torin, Arana and Erigel. 

1086
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,560
Kregard and Torin, you can 
forget about them. 

1087
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:06,920
They appeared to have died 
young. 

1088
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,080
They don't have no story with 
them. 

1089
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:13,040
Erigel by the way married the 
Lord Robard of how Sirwin he 

1090
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,320
either became the Lord later or 
was the heir at the time. 

1091
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:16,720
So there's a strong connection 
there. 

1092
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:19,800
A good example of northern 
houses intermarrying and they 

1093
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,200
got also a reminder that there's
not that many northern houses 

1094
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,440
overall. 
Like if they're intermarrying 

1095
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,760
each other for thousands of 
years, there's a lot of they all

1096
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,400
have each other's bloodlines 
basically. 

1097
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,840
So Arana is the one we didn't 
mention here. 

1098
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,200
Edrick had Crigard tourn Arana 
and Ergal Arana is the elder 

1099
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,800
girl she married this ozrich 
Umber who took over Last Hearth 

1100
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:45,320
after the death of Lord John. 
So in other words, a daughter 

1101
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,840
from the marriage of Edrich and 
Serena produced Oh girl that 

1102
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,840
married ozrich Umber and Serena 
had already been married to John

1103
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,040
Umber the previous Lord of but 
they had no kids. 

1104
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,560
So it's all like so basically 
this was a redo of the John 

1105
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,960
Serena marriage. 
Like, we really wanted to have a

1106
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,720
Stark married to Lord Umber That
didn't work out. 

1107
00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:08,280
We're going to try again. 
So they did, and it must have 

1108
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,000
been politically important or 
something. 

1109
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,560
It must have been expedient. 
It had a reason to be like, 

1110
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,400
whoa, this didn't work out. 
We need to do it though. 

1111
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:16,880
We need to start married to an 
Umber. 

1112
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,000
Now. 
Arana and Azrich inherited the 

1113
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,120
Last Hearth and their 
descendants continued house 

1114
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,480
Umber So just like I was saying,
all these houses have each 

1115
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,280
other's blood. 
This looks like less than a 

1116
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,440
century ago the Umbers got had a
Stark bride, and thus the 

1117
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,200
current Umbers probably have 
fairly recent Stark in them, and

1118
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,840
that certainly helps explain 
some of the closeness. 

1119
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,640
Great. 
John's love for Rob and all 

1120
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,840
that. 
Not that he probably wouldn't 

1121
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,920
have been loyal anyway, but 
yeah, it's it's nice to have 

1122
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,000
some confirmation here. 
A similar conclusion should be 

1123
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,760
reached with regard to the Black
Fire rebellions, which is that 

1124
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,520
the Umbers had little reason to 
participate because the Starks 

1125
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,240
didn't seem to. 
If the Starks aren't going to 

1126
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,440
join the war in the South, 
Umbers are like, yeah, well, why

1127
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,520
would we do that? 
Maybe a few individuals just 

1128
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,240
really wanted to fight and they 
went, but in terms of like a 

1129
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,320
real army, nothing that we heard
of. 

1130
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,400
It's possible they did fight and
just overlook where it isn't 

1131
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,280
mentioned. 
But and I would assume that if 

1132
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,920
the Starks supported either side
would be the loyalists because 

1133
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,920
that's just generally how they 
operate in 226. 

1134
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,320
So we're only we're less than 80
years before the start of the 

1135
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,240
books here. 
There is the famous invasion of 

1136
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,200
Raymond Redbeard king be on the 
wall. 

1137
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,840
He was the most recent king be 
on the wall before Mance Raider.

1138
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,680
Now, Raymond Redbeard's efforts 
were aided by the shoddy work of

1139
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,600
the Lord Commander at the Times,
Jack Musgood, who was named 

1140
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,400
Sleepy Jack after this. 
But Lord Willem Stark and his 

1141
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,480
brother Artos the Implacable, 
along with harmond Umber the 

1142
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,800
drunken giant. 
He and the Starks came at the 

1143
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,160
Free Folk from two sides. 
They trapped them next to the 

1144
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,160
lake and kind of pincer moved 
them, right umber's coming from 

1145
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,440
the east, the Starks coming from
kind of South and West. 

1146
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,760
Yeah, Lord Willem was killed. 
Artos then killed Raymond 

1147
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:05,120
Redbeard, and Raymond Redbeard's
brother led the retreat of the 

1148
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,160
free folk back to beyond the 
wall. 

1149
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,800
John Merkel super chat says my 
tinfoil is a children work 

1150
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,760
giants to build the wall like 
Brandon Hodor. 

1151
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,200
Maybe a deal leads to house 
umber Make those words and sigil

1152
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,200
fit. 
Yeah, I like that theory. 

1153
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,680
We posted it ourselves. 
We suggest that same theory in 

1154
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,960
our Brandon the Builder episode 
and maybe one other a couple 

1155
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,920
other places, probably Giants 
and chains. 

1156
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,600
Yeah, that one. 
And I could see, I could see 

1157
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,360
that being part of the whole 
connection between house umber 

1158
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,680
and the wall being built and 
their bloodlines. 

1159
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,600
Like, yeah, if, if this state of
affairs existed, there would 

1160
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,360
have been more traffic between 
these areas without a wall. 

1161
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,320
Giants were just in the North, 
right? 

1162
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,840
That's that's how it was back in
the day. 

1163
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,880
So it's very, it's very possible
that the children or the power 

1164
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,040
of the old guys enabled that 
'cause you know, if Bran can 

1165
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,760
skin change into Hodor feels 
like it's got to be at least 

1166
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,080
possible that a powerful enough 
green seer slash skin changer 

1167
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:07,840
could take over a giant previous
Song of Ice and Fire. 

1168
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,840
A possible exception to the rule
that the OR to the idea that the

1169
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,520
Umbers didn't participate in the
Blackfyre buildings is the 5th 

1170
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,000
because it was an internal 
struggle so much as a straight 

1171
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,920
up invasion. 
The 9 penny kings invaded 

1172
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,160
Westeros, this is not picking a 
side, this is defending Westeros

1173
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,920
from an outside invader. 
So the North would be a lot more

1174
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:30,720
likely to get involved in 
something like that which is a 

1175
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,400
threat to everyone. 
And you know, they are, it's 

1176
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,760
their Kingdom, you know, these 
are foreigners, etcetera. 

1177
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,760
So however we don't hear about 
that specifically. 

1178
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,600
So we have nothing to go on 
other than it seems probable 

1179
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,680
jumping ahead to Robert's 
Rebellion, which would have been

1180
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,480
about 20 some years later after 
the 5th Blackfyre Rebellion. 

1181
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,480
The Umbers absolutely supported 
Eddard Stark, no question that 

1182
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,040
we know about that. 
We don't know if Great John was 

1183
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,840
Lord yet. 
Probably a good chance he was, 

1184
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,960
but maybe not. 
He was almost certainly old 

1185
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,960
enough to fight by then though, 
so it's it's possible he fought 

1186
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,120
in Robert Trebullen. 
Again, we don't hear about that.

1187
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,440
This could indicate his 
grandfather hoarfrost Umber was 

1188
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,280
Lord at the time, but we don't 
know what Great John's father 

1189
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:15,880
was. 
His name is missing. 

1190
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,800
We don't know whoever 
Hoarfrost's heir was. 

1191
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:20,760
We don't know what that was so 
great. 

1192
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,120
John's younger great. 
John's father is unnamed, but 

1193
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,560
his younger brothers, his 
father's younger brothers would 

1194
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,360
be Morris, Crowfood, and Hoth or
Horsbane. 

1195
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,120
The name Hoarfrost, by the way, 
hoarfrost Umber makes sound like

1196
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,960
a very old man. 
Hoarfrost is a name is a. 

1197
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:39,960
That's a thing you associate 
with age. 

1198
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,240
Hoarfrost is white. 
Hoarfrost is white from age 

1199
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:45,400
specifically. 
That's what it means. 

1200
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,440
So my guess is this means this 
guy ruled for a long time, like 

1201
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:54,520
he was an old, particularly old 
Lord umber that probably means 

1202
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,680
he also ruled for a long time. 
But it could also just mean he 

1203
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,760
inherited it, you know, later in
life and held on to it for a 

1204
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,200
while. 
He could have even been harmond 

1205
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,240
Umber, the Drunken Giant's 
grandson. 

1206
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,760
That's roughly the the timeline 
that would be supported there. 

1207
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,200
So we actually have a decent bit
of that family tree in terms of 

1208
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,800
past numbers of of recent 
generations, even though we 

1209
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,400
don't have much for the current 
one. 

1210
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,840
We just have sons, daughters, 
brothers, just unnamed. 

1211
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,720
But we also know Moore's 
Crowfood fought in the war. 

1212
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,200
So Moore's definitely fought in 
Robert's Rebellion and it did 

1213
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,520
not go well for him. 
Well, him personally maybe, but 

1214
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,800
his family terribly. 
He had sons, we don't know how 

1215
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,640
many, but plural sons. 
They died of the Battle of the 

1216
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,040
Trident. 
Maybe that's where Great John's 

1217
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,200
father died too. 
Maybe he died alongside them, 

1218
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:39,960
but he could have already been 
dead. 

1219
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,000
Who knows. 
You'd think that if the Great 

1220
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,720
John's father died in that war 
alongside Moore's sons, they'd 

1221
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,000
get mentioned. 
Like, why would Moore's sons get

1222
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,360
mentioned as dying but not Great
John's father, Moore's older 

1223
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,720
brother? 
So that's a little unlikely 

1224
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,280
umber's also very likely fought 
in Baylon Greyjoy's rebellion of

1225
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,560
the two 90s because the Starks 
were big on that one. 

1226
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,760
But again, no detail. 
There's a, there's a lot of 

1227
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,840
missing detail in that war. 
It's just a safe assumption that

1228
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,280
there were Mormons Starks. 
Well, definitely there are 

1229
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,400
Mormons, Dora, we know for a 
fact was there safe assumption 

1230
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,840
that Umbers were there too? 
We are nothing without you all. 

1231
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,040
This show would not exist 
without the support of Patrons. 

1232
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:24,120
It is to this day our biggest 
single source of income, which 

1233
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:25,640
you know, to make a living at 
this. 

1234
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:29,600
We have several streams of 
income to add up to a living, 

1235
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,320
but Patreon is the largest share
of that. 

1236
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,040
We we very much rely on it. 
We've been relying on it since 

1237
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,120
2016. 
If you are someone that listens 

1238
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,320
to us regularly, consider 
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1239
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,480
getting us a little more 
support, a little more security 

1240
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,400
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return. 

1241
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,560
You know, shout outs, bonus 
episodes is the biggest draw for

1242
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,600
most people, but also polls 
things that we get to vote on, 

1243
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,880
helping decide what episodes get
made, things like that. 

1244
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:57,960
You get the first, you're the 
first to hear about certain 

1245
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,520
things and we have news, all 
that good stuff. 

1246
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,720
You can sign up and join the 
crowd of other patrons other 

1247
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:10,200
History of Westeros W Orion 
Patrons at patreon.com/history 

1248
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,840
of Westeros. 
Don't forget also to check me 

1249
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,760
out on Twitch on Fridays 
twitch.tv History of Westeros 

1250
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,880
where we do playthroughs of 
different dynasties. 

1251
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,960
Very detailed game allows us to 
play the current Lord or lady or

1252
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,240
king or queen. 
Play them out role-playing by 

1253
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,760
going through a lot of different
scenarios, intrigue, wars, kids,

1254
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,800
marriages, murders, whatever. 
And then when the character 

1255
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,880
dies, you take over as their 
heir and just keep going. 

1256
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,160
So we're currently we're playing
House Osgrey, but guess who's 

1257
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:38,880
next? 
When the House Osgrey campaign 

1258
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,240
ends, we're going to do house 
Umber so keep an eye out for 

1259
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,440
that. 
Now, real quick, just about just

1260
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,440
a little thing about Long, like 
this has less to do with the 

1261
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,520
Umbers, but it's related to 
their territory. 

1262
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,120
When Melisandre has that vision 
of a girl in Gray by a body of 

1263
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:58,800
water, a deep lakeish thing man 
traders like, ah, Long Lake 

1264
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,480
probably is. 
But of course it was Alice 

1265
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,840
Karstark, not Arya. 
So what Alice must have done is 

1266
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:09,040
fled West from Karhold, a long 
last river, maybe 4 to the last 

1267
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,440
river at some point, then went 
past Long Lake, which is when 

1268
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,960
Melisandre's vision is. 
And then when she got far enough

1269
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,040
W, she hit the Kings Road and 
then she just went straight N on

1270
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:18,800
the Kings Road to get to Castle 
Black. 

1271
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,680
And that, that does sound right,
because she did arrive on the 

1272
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,920
Kings Road. 
And it would make sense maybe to

1273
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,840
cut through, cut W past Karl. 
Otherwise, she has to go through

1274
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,520
umberland completely, which 
maybe she didn't want to do 

1275
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:33,000
that. 
Maybe she wasn't so sure about 

1276
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:37,640
them either. 
House Umber and A Song of Ice on

1277
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,080
Fire. 
All right, let's get into more 

1278
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,000
current times. 
We've set the stage, we've 

1279
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,720
talked about the past. 
We've hopefully painted a good 

1280
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,560
picture of what the Umbers are, 
what their vibe is all about, 

1281
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,640
how they behave, patterns, 
things like that. 

1282
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:53,640
As I said before, the Umbers 
have the distinction of plot 

1283
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,240
lines that are not finished, a 
lot of them only small. 

1284
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:01,240
John is out of the narrative now
and his father temporarily, So 

1285
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:02,640
how long will he be out of the 
narrative? 

1286
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:06,120
I don't know. 
He's in prison, but as we'll be 

1287
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:10,760
talking about shortly, I cannot 
fathom him ending the story in 

1288
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,160
prison or dying in prison. 
I just don't see that happening.

1289
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,280
So I'm going to act as if it's 
not going to happen and describe

1290
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,760
what I think will happen, or at 
least some ideas as to what I 

1291
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,200
think will happen. 
This next section is called John

1292
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,760
and John, Great and Small real. 
Briefly, let's describe these 

1293
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,280
two, the Great John and Small 
John, and later we'll talk about

1294
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,480
some of the other numbers as we 
get to their as as we get to 

1295
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,920
their storylines. 
Great John is described as as 

1296
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,880
tall as Hodor, who is 7 feet 
tall, but twice as wide, which 

1297
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,480
is like, whoa, that is a huge 
man. 

1298
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,720
I think he's probably the 
largest living person in 

1299
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,800
Westeros because Gregor Clegane 
is not living. 

1300
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:50,880
He's walking around, but he's 
not living. 

1301
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,640
Obviously Gregor is bigger if we
do count him. 

1302
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,640
So it's more like when you think
who's the largest person in 

1303
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,840
Westeros besides Gregor. 
So that's I think it's great. 

1304
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,160
Sean, I think he might be the 
biggest dude other than Gregor 

1305
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,360
Clegane. 
And since Gregor's dad, he, he 

1306
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,400
has a claim to be the biggest 
living person. 

1307
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,080
Now again, we don't know how old
he is, but he has a lot of 

1308
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,560
children and his heir was old 
enough to be 1 of Rob's personal

1309
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:14,400
guards. 
And most of Rob's personal 

1310
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,520
guards, if not all of them were 
like around his age. 

1311
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:21,600
They were like mostly younger 
heirs, Lucas Blackwood, Torin 

1312
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:25,240
and and Eddard Kar Stark, Daisy 
Mormont. 

1313
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,200
These were mostly people who 
were like 19 to 21, a little 

1314
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,000
older than Rob. 
You know, Theon is one of them. 

1315
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:38,200
Theon's 20 at this time. 
So that seems to fit Small John,

1316
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,960
something like 19 or 21 as well.
That's, that's my best guess 

1317
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,400
because they also say that small
John's not finished growing, 

1318
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,920
which that means he's not going 
to be like 25, let alone 

1319
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,360
something like 30. 
So, yeah, it's tough to say, but

1320
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:53,760
that's a good range to put him 
on. 

1321
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:59,440
When Jamie is pondering who he 
who he thinks is stronger than 

1322
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:00,560
him. 
He's like, there's only a few 

1323
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,560
people in Westeros stronger than
me. 

1324
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,800
And the first person he thinks 
is is Great John, the person he 

1325
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,280
thinks that is. 
I hardly even need to mention 

1326
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,680
the Mountain. 
It's the same thing. 

1327
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,080
He's like, wow, that goes 
without saying. 

1328
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,680
But it's neat that the Great 
John was the first one he thinks

1329
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,359
of. 
He thinks of Strong Borer and, 

1330
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:20,800
and the Cleganes, of course, and
Great John, not many names. 

1331
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,840
He's like, Jamie's like, I'm 
stronger than all of them except

1332
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:25,560
for these guys. 
And even those guys I can beat 

1333
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,640
because I'm faster than them. 
Obviously Jamie's very 

1334
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,560
confident, if not cocky. 
Clearly these are thoughts he 

1335
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,760
had before he lost his hand. 
But yeah, there's very 

1336
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,240
entertaining examples of, of 
Greg, of, of, of umber strength 

1337
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:38,880
here. 
The way he pushes down Hal 

1338
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,319
Malin, knocks the table over, 
pushes a bunch of people around 

1339
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:43,920
the, the way the thing that 
happens to him at the Red 

1340
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:45,680
Wedding, He's just immensely 
strong. 

1341
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,160
But again, we have not really 
seen it deployed. 

1342
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:52,000
We've just seen little tastes of
it, little flashes of what he's 

1343
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,640
capable of. 
We have not seen him earnestly 

1344
01:08:55,640 --> 01:09:00,120
unleashed, Unchained. 
I love that Unchained is so 

1345
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:01,279
perfect. 
He's like, George is like early 

1346
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:04,840
telling us something, isn't he? 
So don't be. 

1347
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,439
Don't be fooled into thinking 
that this is all in the past. 

1348
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,800
This is set up, set up that has 
not had its pay off yet. 

1349
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:17,279
Small John was nearly as tall as
his father, but yeah, he just, 

1350
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:19,040
he died at the Red Wing. 
One kind of funny thing about 

1351
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,359
Smile John is I'm pretty sure he
never said a thing. 

1352
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,760
We have no lines from him. 
He, he was present in a lot of 

1353
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,439
things, but I don't think he 
ever talked, which is kind of 

1354
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:28,600
funny. 
He's great. 

1355
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,399
John talked enough for 
everybody, for his whole family,

1356
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:33,840
So loud and talkative that no 
other umber could get in a word 

1357
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:38,800
in edgewise, A weird and not 
great feature of the Umbers in 

1358
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,520
The Song of Ice and Fire is the 
complete and total lack of 

1359
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,399
women. 
Not one. 

1360
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,359
I mean, we know they exist, 
obviously, because I pointed out

1361
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:50,800
earlier that Great John has 
daughters and Small John has 

1362
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:54,279
daughters and they have wives, 
clearly. 

1363
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,280
But just like the children, the 
the wives aren't named. 

1364
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,560
We don't know what houses they 
married into, other than those 

1365
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:02,640
stars we mentioned from, you 
know, 100 years ago. 

1366
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,720
Poor Frost's wife, no idea. 
Great John's wife, no idea. 

1367
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:08,640
Small John's wife, no idea. 
Morris Crowfood had a wife who 

1368
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,840
died in childbirth, No idea who 
she was. 

1369
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,280
One reason this is odd is that 
the Mormons have prominent women

1370
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,400
and we talked about how there's 
should be a lot of parallels 

1371
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:21,360
there because they both live in 
sort of frontier situations 

1372
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,960
where there's a lot of danger 
and it's an all hands on deck 

1373
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:27,000
situation. 
If you can fight, you fight 

1374
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,240
because we need everyone to 
fight. 

1375
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,360
So maybe that's a thing we just 
haven't heard about it. 

1376
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,840
I I just find it hard to believe
that Last Hearth women aren't 

1377
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:36,640
called on to fight. 
It's possible. 

1378
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,400
It's possible I'm wrong. 
I got to be open to being wrong 

1379
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,320
about that, but it really just 
seems unlikely. 

1380
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,680
So that does make it a little 
unusual that we haven't seen 

1381
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,240
them. 
But maybe they're back defending

1382
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,000
the home like that. 
They're the men all marched. 

1383
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,720
So the women are defending the 
the hearth and home mostly by 

1384
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:52,080
themselves. 
Entirely possible. 

1385
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:56,200
I don't think they'd leave it, 
you know, completely undefended.

1386
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,880
There is the mention by Moore's 
Crowfood or maybe it was 

1387
01:10:58,880 --> 01:10:59,600
Hawthor. 
It doesn't matter. 

1388
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,240
One of them pointed out great 
John took too many men S it 

1389
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,120
harmed their ability to do the 
harvest and it might leave them 

1390
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,240
vulnerable. 
So it would make a lot more 

1391
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,960
sense if the women are capable 
of fighting and, and pushing 

1392
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:13,240
back against some of that 
vulnerability. 

1393
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,720
So the fact that small John is 
dead might mean other, another 

1394
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,160
umber comes onto the scene 
because great, John has a new 

1395
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:23,440
heir, right? 
He has sons, plural. 

1396
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:26,160
So small John had sons, plural. 
So you'd think the small John's 

1397
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,440
eldest son would be the new heir
to Last Hearth. 

1398
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,120
But again, we don't know who 
this person's name is. 

1399
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,120
I, I kind of feel like we'll get
that eventually. 

1400
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,160
It's kind of too important to 
just ignore entirely. 

1401
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:39,480
You could see some sort of Last 
Hearth succession issue, right? 

1402
01:11:39,480 --> 01:11:43,560
Like maybe, maybe a brother of 
Small John tries to claim it 

1403
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:47,160
ahead of Small John's son who's 
too young. 

1404
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,880
Makes the case that we can't 
have a boy umber Lord right now 

1405
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,560
it's got to be me. 
Might have support for that. 

1406
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:55,520
Maybe Moors or Hothor will make 
a play. 

1407
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,080
Probably not, because Great John
trusted them and they didn't do 

1408
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:03,240
it yet, and they seem to be 
doing good umber business. 

1409
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,880
Maybe. 
More on them later, though it's 

1410
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,200
certainly possible their place 
in the hierarchy is shown pretty

1411
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,280
early on. 
Obviously Great John is Rob's 

1412
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:16,680
right hand man very early on and
he holds tight to that position 

1413
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,240
that holds when they first camp 
at MO Kaelin. 

1414
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,760
There's only a few towers 
available for the Lords and, and

1415
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,840
the Umbers take one of them. 
There's only like 2 other towers

1416
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:28,560
available. 
I think the Bolton's get one and

1417
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,400
obviously Rob gets one of them. 
So that just kind of shows how 

1418
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,840
they're higher where they stand 
in the hierarchy among other 

1419
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,240
northern houses, which is very 
high. 

1420
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:37,960
You know, they're not obviously 
not number one. 

1421
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,040
That's Stark. 
But they they might think 

1422
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,400
they're next. 
They might have a claim to that.

1423
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,840
It's hard. 
There isn't some list that tells

1424
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:52,000
us it's not a it's not a running
competition, but it is to them. 

1425
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:54,800
But it isn't like some there 
isn't some central authority 

1426
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,600
saying, yes, the embers are in 
the lead right now. 

1427
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,560
So we get to the battles of the,
of the end of Game of Thrones. 

1428
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,200
There's before it's officially 
the War of 5 Kings. 

1429
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:09,400
Mostly it's about the battles in
the Riverlands between the 

1430
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,800
Northerners in the River Landers
versus the Lannisters. 

1431
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,880
The Whispering Wood is the first
major battle and the umber horse

1432
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,720
is huge in that battle. 
It's the Great John, along with 

1433
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:23,680
Theon, who drags Jamie to 
present him as a prisoner. 

1434
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,800
It's not 100% clear who caught 
him, who took him down 'cause 

1435
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:32,160
remember Jamie when he was, when
he realized he was losing, he 

1436
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,720
made a attempt to go right for 
Rob and kill him. 

1437
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:38,600
Didn't happen. 
Killed Torin Karstark, Eddard 

1438
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,000
Karstark and Darren Hornewood in
the process, three of those 

1439
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,440
young heirs that were part of 
his personal guard. 

1440
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,560
So I don't suppose Great John 
was right there for that because

1441
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:52,560
he was busy attacking, leading 
his men into fighting Jamie's 

1442
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,600
forces. 
But maybe Great John was there 

1443
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,600
and actually was part of the 
team that subdued Jamie. 

1444
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,120
We don't actually know who gets 
credit for that. 

1445
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,920
It was it was a group effort, 
apparently soon after the Battle

1446
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,320
of Whispering Wood with the 
Battle of the camps that begins 

1447
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:12,640
with the Blackfish leading a 
sneak night assault. 

1448
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:17,360
And then when the Lannisters 
figure out that they're being 

1449
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:19,680
attacked, the hue and cry is 
raised. 

1450
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,240
The other two camps that are on 
other sides of the river start 

1451
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,360
to get there, start to wake up 
and start to try to help. 

1452
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:31,720
And that's when Rob with Umber 
and Malester Horse Great John 

1453
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:36,560
leading his contingent attack 
from the West of the Battle of 

1454
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,280
the Camps and hit one of the 
other camps in surprise. 

1455
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:43,080
While Blackfish has led the 
distraction by attacking from 

1456
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:47,320
the north portion during the 
attack, it's the Great John who 

1457
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:51,720
leads his men to the assembled 
Lannister siege towers which 

1458
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,400
were being deployed against 
River Run. 

1459
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,960
And he burns them, him and his 
men, burn them, take them all 

1460
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,680
out. 
So well done there. 

1461
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,600
Next section is called the 
Kingmaker in the North. 

1462
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:06,200
So they win these battles, 
they're happy. 

1463
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,480
They're like, yeah, we did our 
job, we're victorious. 

1464
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:12,240
We beat the Lannisters and then 
they find out Eddard was 

1465
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,320
executed by Joffrey. 
It's like, what? 

1466
01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:16,880
That's deflating. 
They thought they were winning. 

1467
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,560
They're doing great. 
They were defying the odds. 

1468
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:21,680
They out thought Tywin 
Lannister. 

1469
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,800
They freed Ed Muir, they undid 
the siege of River and things 

1470
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,120
are going great. 
They captured Jamie, then this 

1471
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:28,880
happens. 
Great John. 

1472
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,160
But prior to this, Great John 
boasted, yeah, we'll be freeing 

1473
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:33,440
in after this. 
We'll we'll beat Tywin. 

1474
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:37,760
Then it's off to the Red Keep to
free Ned, you know, and but of 

1475
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:39,760
course, that doesn't happen. 
Instead, what we get is a very 

1476
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,120
moving scene of a bunch of 
northern Lords gathered in 

1477
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,200
silence, praying to the river 
Run. 

1478
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,640
Hartree Catlin is the witness to
this. 

1479
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:49,560
It was, of course, very 
surprising too. 

1480
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,400
They were like, what? 
Joffrey killed Lord Etta? 

1481
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,200
They realized how stupid that 
is. 

1482
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:58,160
They realized what a bad move 
that is, how it means they can't

1483
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,640
bend the knee now. 
Like we can't just accept you. 

1484
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:05,240
You killed our Lord. 
We that's that's, that's a act 

1485
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,520
of violence that escalates 
things. 

1486
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,680
It doesn't bring it back down. 
Even Tywin called it stupid. 

1487
01:16:11,440 --> 01:16:15,760
If Littlefinger was the man to 
convince Joffrey, which is the 

1488
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:17,640
operating theory, I certainly 
believe that. 

1489
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,400
I don't think it was Joffrey's 
idea. 

1490
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,800
I think Littlefinger got him to 
do that, which means he had a 

1491
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,760
huge finger, not a little finger
in that plot line. 

1492
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,200
And the Great John just did 
Littlefinger's work for him. 

1493
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,440
Littlefinger wanted to do that, 
to cause chaos and strife 

1494
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:33,320
between these houses, and it 
worked way better than he could 

1495
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,880
have possibly guessed. 
He he wanted Stark and Lannister

1496
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:40,000
to fight each other, but he 
probably didn't imagine Stark's 

1497
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:42,960
succession, that they would 
secede from the Seven Kingdoms. 

1498
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,200
And he was probably like, yes, 
perfect. 

1499
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,200
So if any Littlefinger has 
anyone to thank, it's the Great 

1500
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,240
John. 
First, Catelyn makes her speech 

1501
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,560
about peace and be like, look, 
no matter what you all do, it 

1502
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,120
won't bring Ned back. 
This is too much. 

1503
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:05,200
We can't fight all of them. 
The the whole S Yeah, it's a 

1504
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,360
point of pride and honor, but 
it's just a we can't win. 

1505
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,560
But Great John and others are 
like, Nah, you know, you don't 

1506
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:13,880
understand. 
You're a woman. 

1507
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,080
Yes. 
What some of them say they don't

1508
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:17,880
understand a man's need for 
vengeance. 

1509
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:21,760
She's like, I just addressed 
that, but they're not hearing 

1510
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:22,640
it. 
They're not having it. 

1511
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:28,440
He so he responds with one of 
the most memorable speeches in a

1512
01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:30,560
Game of Thrones, if not the 
entire series. 

1513
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,640
This is another big quote. 
We didn't have a lot of quotes 

1514
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,600
in this episode, but the few 
that we have are big. 

1515
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:38,440
And this is as big as the man 
doing the talking Great John 

1516
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:40,400
himself. 
Let's go. 

1517
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:46,320
Monumental quote, my Lords. 
He shouted, his voice booming 

1518
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:49,440
off the rafters. 
Here's what I say to these two 

1519
01:17:49,440 --> 01:17:51,080
kings. 
He spat. 

1520
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,440
Renly Baratheon is nothing to 
me, nor Stannis neither. 

1521
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:58,000
Why should they rule over me and
mine from some flowery seat in 

1522
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,600
High Garden or Dorn? 
What do they know of the Wall or

1523
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,960
the Wolf's Wood or the Barrows 
of the First Men? 

1524
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,600
Even their gods are wrong. 
The Others take the Lannisters 

1525
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,720
too. 
I've had a belly full of them. 

1526
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:15,760
He reached back over his 
shoulder and drew his immense 2 

1527
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:18,960
handed great sword. 
Why shouldn't we rule ourselves 

1528
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,360
again? 
It was the Dragons we married, 

1529
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,040
and the Dragons are all dead. 
He pointed at Rob with the 

1530
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:26,960
blade. 
There sits the only king. 

1531
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,440
I mean to bow my knee to my 
Lords, he. 

1532
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:31,320
Thundered the. 
King in the North. 

1533
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:35,920
And he knelt and laid his sword 
at her son's feet. 

1534
01:18:36,440 --> 01:18:39,880
I'll have peace on those terms, 
Lord Karstark said. 

1535
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:43,920
They can keep their red castle 
and their iron chair as well. 

1536
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:47,280
He eased his long sword from its
scabbard. 

1537
01:18:47,480 --> 01:18:51,520
The King in the North, he said, 
kneeling beside the Great John 

1538
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:56,040
Mage Mormont stood. 
The King of Winter, she 

1539
01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:00,240
declared, and laid her spiked 
Mace beside the swords. 

1540
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:05,440
And the river Lords were rising 
too, Blackwood and Bracken and 

1541
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:09,320
Malistor, houses who had never 
been ruled from Winterfell. 

1542
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:14,120
Yet Catelyn watched them rise 
and draw their blades, bending 

1543
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,000
their knees and shouting the old
words that had not been heard in

1544
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:23,360
the realm for more than 300 
years, since Aegon the Dragon 

1545
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:26,520
had come to make the Seven 
Kingdoms 1. 

1546
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:31,680
Yet now we're heard again 
ringing from the Timbers of her 

1547
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,600
father's hall, The King in the 
North. 

1548
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:40,360
It's so epic, it's perhaps only 
overshadowed by Danny's Dragons,

1549
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:42,240
which is the next chapter of 
them being born. 

1550
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:46,840
But this one seems to put the 
participants in much more 

1551
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:48,640
immediate danger. 
Danny's Dragons are like, well, 

1552
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:50,360
that's going to matter in the 
long term, but it's hard to 

1553
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:54,680
perceive exactly how right this 
is immediate. 

1554
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,000
And of course, Danny and Danny's
Dragons, they have to grow 

1555
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:58,400
before they'll be a threat. 
So it also seems like it's a 

1556
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,400
little farther away, right 
before this. 

1557
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:03,320
Catelyn is thinking, I almost 
had them. 

1558
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:04,240
I almost had them. 
Agreed. 

1559
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,480
I don't think she really did. 
I think she's kind of. 

1560
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,360
Exaggerating in her own mind how
close they were, never going to 

1561
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,640
accept peace. 
But it does believe she does 

1562
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:13,160
believe that she believes it was
close. 

1563
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:17,360
And and whether she's right or 
not, it's still tragic because 

1564
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,840
she is like the only person with
sense in the room at the moment.

1565
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,160
She's the only like lucid 
thinker there. 

1566
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:29,200
She's like, y'all, this is dumb,
this is death, this is folly. 

1567
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,880
You know, she's the only one who
realizes exactly how big of a 

1568
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,360
bite they're taking here and how
hard it will be to swallow and 

1569
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,360
chew that. 
It's in this moment too. 

1570
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:42,480
Nina adds, that the Great John 
slices through the Gordian knot 

1571
01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:45,360
of Stark Tully Sovereignty 
problems. 

1572
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,400
Let me lay it all out, because 
you might forget some of these 

1573
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:50,840
details. 
What's the problem here, first 

1574
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:52,000
of all? 
Well, they don't want to bow to 

1575
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:56,080
Joffrey because he just killed 
Ned, but they don't. 

1576
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:59,000
But then there's like, well, 
Renly is the other power and 

1577
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,400
they're like, well, Rob is like,
I can't bend the knee to Renly. 

1578
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:06,080
He's not lawful. 
Like Stannis is next, but they 

1579
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,600
can't sign up for Stannis 
because Stannis hasn't done 

1580
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,520
anything yet. 
Stannis is at this point, 

1581
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:12,400
Stannis is just sitting on 
Dragonstone. 

1582
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,440
He hasn't launched anything. 
He hasn't made anything known. 

1583
01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:16,640
He hasn't announced anything. 
He hasn't taken Storm's End yet.

1584
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:18,640
So they can't side with him. 
He's not an option. 

1585
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,160
So the, well, the one guy that 
they might have is an option. 

1586
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,600
They can't choose. 
They might have chosen him 

1587
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,280
anyway if they knew what Ned 
died for. 

1588
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:34,400
They don't know yet about 
Joffrey being not a Baratheon. 

1589
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:37,560
They don't know that yet. 
Otherwise that would make it a 

1590
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:39,280
lot easier. 
They could be, Oh yeah, let's 

1591
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:43,280
even though Stannis hasn't done 
anything yet, he's the guy, He's

1592
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,240
the lawful heir, and we can see 
that clearly. 

1593
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:47,640
But they don't have that 
information here. 

1594
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:49,200
That's part of why they're so 
confused. 

1595
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:51,360
And they have no answer. 
They're like, no one's got an 

1596
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,600
answer. 
Catelyn says peace, he's like 

1597
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,720
look, that's the answer, you 
can't bow to Joffrey, you don't 

1598
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:58,640
want to bow to Renly 'cause he's
not lawful. 

1599
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,520
Then peace. 
McGrady was like Nah. 

1600
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:06,320
The better idea is none of them 
right. 

1601
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,240
It's the perfect solution even 
though it's actually extremely 

1602
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:12,880
dangerous. 
And I wonder how you all first 

1603
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:15,200
read this chapter. 
Most of you have read it 

1604
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,320
multiple times. 
When I read it, I wasn't really 

1605
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:21,880
on Catlin's vibe. 
I was like, yeah, no, this is 

1606
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,640
more exciting that they're 
cheering for this, The King in 

1607
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:26,280
the North, you know, this is 
just so epic. 

1608
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,040
I'm caught up in the moment, 
like the northern Lords and 

1609
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,680
river Lords were. 
George is such a great job, but 

1610
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,840
that even we miss the point a 
lot of times, which is that this

1611
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:36,760
is a bad idea. 
Yeah. 

1612
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:38,000
It's pride. 
It's honor. 

1613
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:39,600
And we saw how proud the great 
John was. 

1614
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:43,320
This guy was mad about marching 
behind certain Lords, right? 

1615
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,560
Like, yeah, great warrior, great
fighter, tough guy. 

1616
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,800
But yeah, he's got that pride 
and that pride continues from 

1617
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:50,360
here. 
Wait, you know, we're move 

1618
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:51,920
jumping ahead a little bit. 
Great. 

1619
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:54,480
John's going to be very proud of
this new Kingdom. 

1620
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:58,360
Won't brook any slights to his 
new King's honor. 

1621
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,400
He's all about like, no, you 
call him king, you don't call 

1622
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:03,560
him boy. 
He's like all about the the 

1623
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:06,520
proper language and all that. 
This is his pride following 

1624
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:10,960
through after this moment here. 
So great, John presented them 

1625
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,960
with the only palatable option, 
even though it was a bad idea. 

1626
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:15,960
They were like, oh, yeah, what a
great idea. 

1627
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:20,040
Screw the screw the Lannisters 
and the Baratheons and the, the 

1628
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:23,120
the High Gardens and the Dorns. 
Like, we don't need them. 

1629
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:25,360
Even their gods are wrong, 
right? 

1630
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:28,360
It's such a great speech. 
It's perfectly delivered to his 

1631
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:32,560
audience and to us. 
And, you know, on rereads, it's 

1632
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,160
only when you start to maybe 
realize, at least my experience,

1633
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:38,960
we're like now I'm more with 
Caitlin here, you know, like now

1634
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,160
I get it. 
You're like, this is George put 

1635
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:45,040
us in her head. 
But he made it so contempting 

1636
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:47,760
from from a reader's perspective
to be like, yeah, this is 

1637
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,680
awesome. 
But then, you know, when you 

1638
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:51,280
read the rest of the book, 
you're like, oh, no, it's not. 

1639
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:54,880
It's it's it's a great story, 
but it's not awesome for the 

1640
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,040
people who did this, you know, 
like it didn't end well. 

1641
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:01,760
And George was telling us it 
wouldn't end well even back 

1642
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:06,480
here. 
So it's also, besides it being a

1643
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:09,400
solution, the Gordian knot, as 
Nina puts it, they can't decide 

1644
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:12,640
who, what to do until someone 
gives them a great solution, 

1645
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,320
which is to do with themselves. 
It is. 

1646
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,160
It does come off as ideological,
right? 

1647
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:21,240
It isn't like great John's like,
oh, I can profit from this. 

1648
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,680
There's money in this for me. 
There's power in this for me. 

1649
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,040
I'll make this suggestion. 
I'll get everyone's bite. 

1650
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,400
I don't think it's the level 
he's thinking on, even though 

1651
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:31,480
Bolton at one point says the 
Umbers are more cunning than 

1652
01:24:31,480 --> 01:24:34,040
people give them credit for. 
He's obviously speaking 

1653
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,560
generally, but. 
Let's. 

1654
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,240
Look at this a little bit 
cynically just to see how it 

1655
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:42,120
feels. 
Was is great, John thinking 

1656
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:42,880
ahead? 
Is he thinking? 

1657
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,760
Yeah, well, I'm the guy who 
suggested this. 

1658
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:50,080
If it works out, I'm going to be
really high in the esteem of the

1659
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:51,720
North. 
The Umbers will be sitting 

1660
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:53,880
higher than they were in this 
new regime. 

1661
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:57,280
They might be the number two 
house in this new set up, this 

1662
01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:00,240
new Kingdom, because they had so
much to do with making it happen

1663
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:01,240
in the 1st place. 
Great. 

1664
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,080
John's been in Rob's right hand 
for so long. 

1665
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,440
Presumably he expects that to 
continue and it does. 

1666
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,040
So he might be looking at the 
rewards ahead of time. 

1667
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:12,280
But yeah, maybe one of my 
daughter's will marry one of 

1668
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:16,400
Rob's daughters or Rob's sons. 
Maybe all you know, he he's for 

1669
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,080
now, he's got to marry the. 
The phrase. 

1670
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,120
Well that that hadn't been that 
had already been arranged. 

1671
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:23,680
So he already knew Rob was going
to marry a Frey, so he didn't 

1672
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,480
have that option. 
But he might be thinking, yeah, 

1673
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:30,840
when Rob and his queen have 
kids, mine might be Next up. 

1674
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:32,400
The number marriage could be 
next. 

1675
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,560
He's his first marriage was to a
Riverlander. 

1676
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:38,160
The second one should be 
marrying the loyal Northern 

1677
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:40,600
houses. 
He might be thinking very far 

1678
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:42,600
ahead here. 
Possibly not. 

1679
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:44,280
Possibly. 
He's just acting in the moment. 

1680
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:47,680
He's a headstrong guy. 
You know, we don't have to. 

1681
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,760
We don't have to assume he was 
thinking beyond that, but we 

1682
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:53,640
shouldn't assume he wasn't 
either. 

1683
01:25:56,560 --> 01:25:58,680
OK, so the War of 5 Kings, let's
get to that. 

1684
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:01,640
Rob, of course, becomes one of 
the five kings. 

1685
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:06,280
And Great John, doing his 
cheerleading as he does, 

1686
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,800
declares the red comet is a 
symbol of Northern vengeance for

1687
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:11,560
Ned. 
When we did an episode on the 

1688
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,800
comet, it's almost entertaining.
Well, it is entertaining. 

1689
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:16,160
It's almost funny is what I 
meant to say. 

1690
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:20,400
How many people just say the 
comets for them, you know, or 

1691
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,320
for one of their friends or 
their king or whatever? 

1692
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:23,640
Like, yeah, it's for me. 
It's for him. 

1693
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:25,680
Theon's the most ridiculous of 
all. 

1694
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,320
I think it's about him. 
He's like, yeah, that's that's 

1695
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:28,680
me. 
That's about me. 

1696
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,040
What? 
The comet's for you? 

1697
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,440
That's so crazy. 
But this is also kind of ironic 

1698
01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:37,480
because he's declaring the comet
a symbol of vengeance for red, 

1699
01:26:37,480 --> 01:26:43,200
for Ned, from the red Ned comet.
But he's part of the problem 

1700
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:48,560
when it comes to prioritizing 
the danger facing the Seven 

1701
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:53,080
Kingdoms, right? 
OSHA says to Bran, your 

1702
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:55,920
brother's marching the wrong 
way, talking about Rob, of 

1703
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:58,600
course. 
And who's who's marching right 

1704
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:01,680
at Rob's side on his right hand 
is Graychon. 

1705
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:06,160
In fact, OSHA tries to get, 
tries to talk to Rob and he's 

1706
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,320
like, hey, I, I, I want to tell.
Graychon shoves her out of the 

1707
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:13,560
way, like don't listen to that. 
And she thinks a man that won't 

1708
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,400
listen can't hear. 
It's a great quote, but it's 

1709
01:27:16,440 --> 01:27:18,400
it's it's aimed not just at Rob,
but at Graychon. 

1710
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:21,560
Like they don't want to hear it.
They're focused on the southern 

1711
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:23,880
issue. 
Their their eyes are pointed 

1712
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:25,880
South. 
Even Ned was the same way. 

1713
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:28,120
They're not thinking about the 
threat to the North. 

1714
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,600
And maybe that'll change in the 
long run and maybe they'll 

1715
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,960
regret that. 
But it's telling that even the 

1716
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:39,480
umbers aren't looking N even the
umbers are only focused on the 

1717
01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:43,320
South, right? 
That's so that's emblematic of 

1718
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,640
the problem that the North is 
undergoing here, not just the 

1719
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:51,400
fact that they're outmatched by 
the Southern armies in terms of 

1720
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:55,480
quantity, but they are not 
perceiving this Northern threat 

1721
01:27:55,480 --> 01:27:58,360
of the Others at all. 
So he remains one of Rob's 

1722
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:00,680
generals throughout the war. 
He's not always at his right 

1723
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:03,720
hand going forward because they 
their forces split sometimes, 

1724
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:05,960
but he generally remains in that
spot. 

1725
01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:10,200
He participates in the Battle of
Oxcross, which was the sneak 

1726
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:13,320
attack on Stafford Lannister's 
new host near Landisport. 

1727
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:17,240
That's the one where Greywyn 
found a goat track and enabled 

1728
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:22,200
them to evade the Golden Tooth, 
and so the Lannisters had no 

1729
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:25,240
idea they were even nearby. 
And yeah, so Great John was part

1730
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,800
of that. 
After that victory is when we 

1731
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,800
see the army separate a bit. 
Temporarily. 

1732
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,200
They got to start to capture 
some of the nearby prizes. 

1733
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:36,680
After that, with no Lannister 
army to oppose them, they start 

1734
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,120
to seize some of the nearby 
territory. 

1735
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:42,960
In Great John's case, he seizes 
some gold mines, Castamere Nuns 

1736
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:45,360
Deep and Penderkills. 
It's where do they call gold 

1737
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:46,920
mines a Castamere? 
Because we thought the Castamere

1738
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:51,240
gold mines were played out 
empty, but maybe they didn't 

1739
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:52,720
even know that we captured the 
gold mine. 

1740
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,360
Oh, there's no gold there. 
Anyway, a small point, not that 

1741
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:58,840
important. 
So here's a here's a bit that 

1742
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:03,640
comes from when Rob is sending 
Sir Cleos with terms to King's 

1743
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:05,280
Landing. 
Coming back to some of our 

1744
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:06,600
patterns that were reinforcing 
here. 

1745
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:09,680
Quote. 
The night scrambled up, edging 

1746
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,440
away with such alacrity that 
some of the watchers laughed 

1747
01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:15,600
aloud. 
Thank you, my Lord. 

1748
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:18,880
Your Grace. 
Sparked Lord Umber the Great 

1749
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:23,800
John, ever the loudest of Rob's 
northern bannerman, and the 

1750
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:28,040
truest and fiercest as well, or 
so he insisted. 

1751
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:32,240
He had been the first to 
proclaim her son King in the 

1752
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:36,320
North, and he would brook no 
slight to the honor of his new 

1753
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:42,080
made sovereign. 
He can detect a little sarcasm. 

1754
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,080
Maybe that's not the right word 
from Catlin here. 

1755
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:47,360
She's not like, she's not so 
happy about it. 

1756
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:49,480
He's like he's the fiercest, or 
so he insisted. 

1757
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:51,520
He's not. 
She's not happy that he's the 

1758
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,720
one that declared her son King. 
She's not happy that that 

1759
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:55,080
happened at all. 
So she's not going to, like, 

1760
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:58,280
give him credit for that. 
This again, it comes back to 

1761
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:02,120
this pride that is, if anything,
that would be great. 

1762
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:04,200
John's downfall or has been, is 
his pride. 

1763
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:08,240
He's just makes too much of 
these things now, making Sir 

1764
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:10,600
Cleos call Rob, Your grace is no
big deal. 

1765
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:14,400
This is Morris a symptom of a 
bigger problem than a particular

1766
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:17,240
problem in this in this 
particular case, because that 

1767
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,280
pride is very dangerous. 
It allow it, it may it leads 

1768
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:23,960
them to take on dangers that 
they should probably not take on

1769
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:26,400
or at least take on differently.
It's like we're indestructible. 

1770
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:27,680
We're the best. 
We can't lose. 

1771
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:30,880
It's good to have good morale. 
But you got to you got to add a 

1772
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,240
little sense into that. 
You know, a little little 

1773
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,080
reality needs to to make its 
way. 

1774
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:39,320
Let's divert away from the War 
of 5 Kings back to Winterfell, 

1775
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,960
because where Bran is the Stark 
in Winterfell, there's still a 

1776
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:48,600
lot going on up there prior to 
Theon, you know, taking it over 

1777
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:52,080
and then Ramsay and all that. 
So before that happens, we have 

1778
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:56,080
the harvest feast at Winterfell,
and this is where we first meet 

1779
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,600
Moores and Holther, the younger 
brothers of Great John's unnamed

1780
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:02,680
father. 
Let's describe them both 

1781
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:07,120
individually real fast here. 
Moores Crowfood is the elder of 

1782
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:09,560
the two. 
He's the one missing an eye. 

1783
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:13,640
The crow thought he was asleep 
and pecked his eye out. 

1784
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:19,440
He then ate the crow, biting its
head off, hence the name Crow 

1785
01:31:19,440 --> 01:31:22,080
Food. 
He's at least 60 years old, 

1786
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,760
probably older. 
He's huge, white, bearded, 

1787
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:30,480
either wears. 
He has a snow bear cloak that 

1788
01:31:30,480 --> 01:31:33,400
also has the hood so he can put 
the bear over his face. 

1789
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:37,280
It looks pretty fearsome on 
addition to him being big and 

1790
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,600
intimidating. 
He's got that, but also he's got

1791
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:42,040
that missing eye. 
Sometimes he wears an eye patch,

1792
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,920
sometimes he wears a chunk of 
dragonglass in his eye, which is

1793
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:51,160
really interesting to consider. 
Like can his corpse be raised by

1794
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,400
the others if it has a 
dragonglass chunk in it? 

1795
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:57,520
Can anyone who has a dragonglass
in them be raised by the others?

1796
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,920
I would think no Being 
interesting, like, you know, 

1797
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:04,920
inoculation against being made 
into a white like Nope, as long 

1798
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:07,960
as that chunk of dragon glass is
in your face, you're just going 

1799
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:10,800
to sit there, you know, either 
going to be alive or be a 

1800
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:12,360
corpse. 
You will not raise, you know, 

1801
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,320
unless the others come along and
pluck that right out, which I 

1802
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:16,360
don't think they can do that. 
They can't touch that. 

1803
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:20,640
So that actually could be a 
little subtle plot moment or 

1804
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:23,440
plot mechanism, something that 
teaches us a little bit about 

1805
01:32:23,440 --> 01:32:26,280
how the others work and how the 
undead work. 

1806
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:28,840
Maybe, maybe could be a lore 
moment there. 

1807
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:34,840
Now, as we said, his sons were 
killed on the Trident and his 

1808
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:36,760
wife died in childbirth. 
Those we mentioned already. 

1809
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:40,000
Also his daughter was kidnapped 
by the Free Folk in the year 

1810
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,280
270, so about 30 years before 
the book started. 

1811
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:44,520
So this man has lost his whole 
family. 

1812
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:46,400
Obviously there's still other 
Umbers, but he lost all his 

1813
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,960
children and his wife. 
So that's, I mean, this is this 

1814
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:51,280
is one of those guys. 
He has nothing to lose. 

1815
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:53,920
You know, the proverbial, you 
know, it's like you can't 

1816
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,080
threaten or scare this man. 
He's suffered way too much. 

1817
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:59,880
He's too old. 
Winter's coming. 

1818
01:32:59,880 --> 01:33:01,640
Like, you cannot. 
This guy's, Yeah. 

1819
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:03,080
You can't intimidate a man like 
this. 

1820
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:05,720
He's also drunk all the time, 
we're told. 

1821
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:09,120
That might explain why the Crow 
thought he was dead. 

1822
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:12,160
He was just so, so passed out 
drunk that the crow's like, this

1823
01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:15,600
dude is dead. 
Daniella Hornewood, the a very 

1824
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:19,920
unfortunate widow of Hornewood 
who Ramsay does awful things to.

1825
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,720
She calls Moore's Umber A 
drunken brute. 

1826
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:27,240
So because Moores wants to marry
her, and she's like, no, like, I

1827
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:31,720
don't want to marry him. 
So Sir Roderick responds to this

1828
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:33,600
by saying, you know, I'm a 
little worried. 

1829
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:36,040
You know, we got to find out. 
We got to find someone to rule 

1830
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:37,600
the Hornwood lands. 
And it needs to be someone 

1831
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:41,640
capable because with men like 
Moore, Zumber and Ramsay out 

1832
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:44,440
there, he could be in trouble. 
What? 

1833
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,720
Sir Roderick is comparing Moores
to Ramsay. 

1834
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:54,200
All right, take a step back. 
This is not yet the point where 

1835
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:56,320
we know what we're dealing with 
with Ramsay. 

1836
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:00,200
Sir Roderick does know Moores, 
he's as old as he is. 

1837
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:02,040
So he would know this man's 
reputation. 

1838
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:04,720
He would know a lot about 
Moore's Umber but he doesn't 

1839
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,520
actually know Ramsay that well. 
So this is, this is more of a 

1840
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:11,120
like a jarring comparison. 
That's just Sir Roderick doesn't

1841
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:13,280
know what he's talking about. 
Sir Ramsay hasn't done anything 

1842
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:14,800
at this point. 
All we've heard is like a couple

1843
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,280
of bad things, but he hasn't. 
Even the Hornwood thing hadn't 

1844
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:20,560
even happened yet. 
So there's just like a few 

1845
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:22,160
things like he's just coming on 
the scene basically. 

1846
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,000
Remember, Ruse didn't raise 
Ramsay. 

1847
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:27,600
Ramsay was raised by his mother 
until only a few years before 

1848
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,840
the books start, so his he's 
kind of an in no unknown 

1849
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,960
personality at that point. 
Still, it's like whoa comparing 

1850
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:39,840
Moores to Ramsay, that's crazy. 
Anyway, Hawthor Horsbane is his 

1851
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:41,960
younger brother. 
He's also really old. 

1852
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,000
He's gaunt. 
Maybe not as big as the others 

1853
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:46,720
because he's gaunt, so he's not 
as thick wide, but I think he's 

1854
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:50,040
as tall. 
His his face is described as as 

1855
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:53,760
hard as winter frost and his 
eyes are described as flinty and

1856
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:58,160
flinty is George often 
associates that with like it's a

1857
01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:00,480
kind of a negative thing. 
I think, you know, it's like 

1858
01:35:00,480 --> 01:35:04,800
they're it's like a dark view of
their eyes, like shifty eyed and

1859
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,480
small eyed, like squinty, like 
they're staring through you. 

1860
01:35:07,480 --> 01:35:09,840
Maybe I get that wrong. 
That's kind of how I see that. 

1861
01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:13,600
He got the name Horsbane around 
the year 250 or 251. 

1862
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,000
So about 50 years before the 
book started, he went to the 

1863
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:20,000
Citadel, the Saudi as a maester,
A hoarfrost Umber thought that 

1864
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:25,000
he would be capable of that. 
Well, maybe early in his career 

1865
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:27,920
down at the Citadel, he 
disemboweled a male sex worker 

1866
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:31,000
who tried to steal from him. 
This is why people don't talk 

1867
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,800
about it as much. 
Even it's kind of it's, it's a, 

1868
01:35:33,480 --> 01:35:36,040
it's a balance here. 
Morris Crowfood loves to tell 

1869
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:38,600
the story of the of his eye. 
But people don't talk so much 

1870
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:42,920
about this disemboweled male sex
worker because, well, that means

1871
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:46,240
he was with a male sex worker. 
And that's apparently not 

1872
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:49,320
something you you, you want 
known in the North, I guess, or 

1873
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:52,280
just in general, I don't know. 
It's not the same as the way you

1874
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:54,680
know, our world looks at at 
homosexuality. 

1875
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:56,600
It's not me this is we can't 
look at it the same way. 

1876
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:58,200
Don't don't listen to the way 
the show did it. 

1877
01:35:58,200 --> 01:35:59,400
The show made it almost the 
same. 

1878
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:03,080
But that's not silly. 
Still, it's a little bit taboo, 

1879
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:05,680
I guess. 
Anyway, he is clearly 

1880
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:09,280
intelligent, despite maybe not 
working out as a maester. 

1881
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:11,760
There's some things he does that
show this is this is an 

1882
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,280
intelligent guy. 
He's perceptive, he's 

1883
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:17,160
thoughtful, he's cunning. 
Doesn't mean he's a good man, 

1884
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:19,640
but he is. 
He's not dumb. 

1885
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:21,320
He's not rustic, urban, 
whatever. 

1886
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:23,960
The the he's not a country 
bumpkin like some people would 

1887
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,040
think he is. 
He's going to sign his name 

1888
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:29,280
later. 
He signs his name on a document 

1889
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:33,840
that the that ruse has issues to
the other northern Lords with 

1890
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:36,480
him. 
He signs his name as a he draws 

1891
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:37,720
a giant. 
He doesn't actually write his 

1892
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:41,920
name, which that's interesting. 
This is a guy who was going to 

1893
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:43,520
be a maester. 
You telling me he's illiterate? 

1894
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:46,720
I don't think so. 
So he might be just playing it 

1895
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:48,640
up. 
He's like, oh, I'm not literate.

1896
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:52,440
I draw a giant. 
I think he might be snowballing.

1897
01:36:52,440 --> 01:36:54,720
He's faking it a little. 
He's like, no, I'm more capable 

1898
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:56,720
than you think. 
He's just playing illiterate. 

1899
01:36:57,360 --> 01:36:59,560
Maybe not, but I think there's a
good chance of that. 

1900
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:04,160
Theon first sees Hor's Bane 
along with Arnold Karstark in 

1901
01:37:04,160 --> 01:37:07,160
chapter his first chapter of A 
Dance with Dragons. 

1902
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:10,680
Arnold doesn't catch it. 
He's like, who the hell is that?

1903
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:13,200
Why do we have to smell him? 
But Horsbane immediately 

1904
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:14,960
recognized him. 
He's like, oh, that's Theon. 

1905
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,280
He's even though his hair is 
white, he's missing fingers, 

1906
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:18,880
he's all messed up. 
His teeth are missing. 

1907
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:21,240
He recognizes him. 
So that's a good that's a sign 

1908
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:25,200
of his intelligence right there 
during the so back to the 

1909
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:28,680
harvest feast, Mores and Hothor 
play a drinking game. 

1910
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:30,680
They're like slamming their 
horns together. 

1911
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:34,560
They're yelling, they're loud. 
It's sort of like the great Sean

1912
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:37,720
in that they're loud and drunk 
and and boisterous. 

1913
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:40,920
Definitely umber vibes here. 
You know that that something 

1914
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:43,920
that runs in the family and 
there's a singer there for the 

1915
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:45,840
Harvest piece. 
He sings the song The Night That

1916
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,040
Ended, which is the song about 
the Long Night. 

1917
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:52,520
And during the song, during a 
climactic moment of the song, 

1918
01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:56,720
Hothor pulls out a silver horn 
and blows it as a war horn. 

1919
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:00,160
Like to add emphasis to the 
song, Is this supposed to be 

1920
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:02,760
like a little foreshadowing? 
Is this a little clue that 

1921
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:05,080
Hothar is going to blow a horn? 
Is that going to be is he going 

1922
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:06,760
to be fighting the others? 
Is this like a horn of winter 

1923
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:08,560
thing? 
I don't know, probably not. 

1924
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:11,880
But definitely made me think put
that file, that one in the back.

1925
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:16,440
Like maybe that was a little 
tricky moment by George Hothar 

1926
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:19,520
had was married at 1.2. 
We don't know. 

1927
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:20,680
We don't know anything about 
that. 

1928
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:23,720
He didn't apparently have any 
kids, but both of them want to 

1929
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:26,680
remarry. 
So far it hasn't happened, but 

1930
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,680
hey, you never know. 
Now this is going to come up 

1931
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,880
really interestingly when we 
compare umber to Karstark later,

1932
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:38,120
given what the castellan 
Karstark given Carhold tried to 

1933
01:38:38,120 --> 01:38:42,960
do versus what these two tried 
to do with Last Hearth when they

1934
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,200
were given Co castellanship by 
Great John, it went very 

1935
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:49,240
different directions. 
The guys here who were kind of 

1936
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,560
considered, you know, 
untrustworthy. 

1937
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:55,920
The Umbers actually seem to have
done right by everyone, whereas 

1938
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:59,160
it's Arnulf Karstark and Craig 
and Karstark that were 

1939
01:38:59,880 --> 01:39:06,600
villainous and and evil almost. 
Rob briefly considers marrying 

1940
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:09,880
Hoth or umber to a fray. 
Whoa. 

1941
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:11,480
What would have happened if that
went through? 

1942
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:14,520
I don't know, but that would 
have been awkward. 

1943
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:18,640
Next section is called umber 
lumber. 

1944
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:22,960
Now, as I've said a few times in
this episode, there's all these 

1945
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:25,600
plot lines that the Umbers are 
associated with that haven't 

1946
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:29,120
finished yet. 
Here's a smaller example, one 

1947
01:39:29,120 --> 01:39:31,120
that's maybe flew under the 
radar, but I think it's 

1948
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:33,440
important. 
It's during these brand harvest 

1949
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:35,480
feast chapters. 
Here it is quote. 

1950
01:39:36,440 --> 01:39:40,800
Hoether wanted ships. 
There's wildlings stealing down 

1951
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:43,640
from the north more than I've 
ever seen before. 

1952
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:48,160
They cross the Bay of Seals in 
little boats and wash up on our 

1953
01:39:48,160 --> 01:39:51,160
shores. 
The crows in East Watch are too 

1954
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:55,200
few to stop them, and they go to
ground quick as weasels. 

1955
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:59,920
It's long ships. 
We need aye, and strong men to 

1956
01:39:59,960 --> 01:40:03,080
sail them. 
The great John took too many. 

1957
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:08,160
Half our harvest is gone to seed
for want of arms to swing the 

1958
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:11,200
scythes. 
Sir Roderick pulled at his 

1959
01:40:11,200 --> 01:40:14,040
whiskers. 
You have forests of tall pine 

1960
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,760
and old oak. 
Lord Manderley has ship rights 

1961
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:19,960
and sailors in plenty together. 
You ought to be able to float 

1962
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:22,360
enough long ships to guard both 
your coasts. 

1963
01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:30,080
Manderley Moore Zumber snorted. 
This is umber prejudice against 

1964
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:33,040
Manderley. 
The Manderley's are southern 

1965
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:35,760
ish. 
Lord Manderley personally is not

1966
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:39,160
a hard man, given his weight as 
something that the umbers would 

1967
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:41,760
look down on. 
They think he's soft, they don't

1968
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:44,360
think he's capable. 
They don't like, I don't want to

1969
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:46,960
work with him. 
He's, you know, he's no good, 

1970
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:50,920
but Roderick gives them a stern 
talking to them. 

1971
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:52,560
They're like, OK, all right, 
we'll do it, we'll do it. 

1972
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:55,680
There's a great route for this 
trade. 

1973
01:40:56,160 --> 01:40:59,480
The we earlier pointed out that 
Long Lake feeds the White Knife 

1974
01:40:59,480 --> 01:41:02,920
so all the umbers can chop the 
trees down and put them in the 

1975
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:06,320
water and they just go downriver
and they can be picked up down 

1976
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:08,200
there. 
So it's really easy, easy, 

1977
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:11,520
relatively easy timber shipping 
mechanism that they have. 

1978
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,520
It's kind of built in. 
Now, later we hear that Lord 

1979
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:17,320
Wyman mentions he has indeed 
built ships. 

1980
01:41:17,560 --> 01:41:20,400
This has happened. 
We don't know if it happened for

1981
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:22,480
the Umbers too. 
It probably did if the agreement

1982
01:41:22,480 --> 01:41:23,720
was, hey, we'll give you the 
wood. 

1983
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:26,720
You make some ships, send them, 
send a few of them to us. 

1984
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:30,600
And remember, Rodrick says he's 
got sailors, that Manderly has 

1985
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:33,520
extra sailors too. 
So at first I was wondering, 

1986
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,440
well, where they don't have 
enough men for the harvest, 

1987
01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:37,560
where are they going to get men 
to man these long ships? 

1988
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,520
But this quote indicates that 
Sir Rodrick is telling them 

1989
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:43,760
manually will give you some 
sailors as well to defend your 

1990
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:45,960
coast. 
But this still, as far as we 

1991
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:50,040
know, hasn't happened. 
Because think about the Hardhome

1992
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:52,400
incident, right? 
All those ships that go there 

1993
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:53,920
and they, you know, it's not 
going well. 

1994
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:58,720
I mean, there's just no word of 
umber ships around the area or 

1995
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:00,960
so it might have happened. 
It might have been happened off 

1996
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:04,800
page, but I mean, neither Hoth 
or Moors or even at Last Hearth.

1997
01:42:05,200 --> 01:42:08,360
So, yeah, it's interesting. 
It's it could be some coast 

1998
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:13,320
guarding going on there against 
the Free Folk, but this is by a 

1999
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:15,680
clash of kings. 
Fast forward to Dance with 

2000
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:17,440
Dragons. 
I don't know that they're going 

2001
01:42:17,440 --> 01:42:19,480
to be raiding around the wall 
anymore because the free folk 

2002
01:42:19,480 --> 01:42:22,680
have all passed through the wall
to join Stannis, you know, 

2003
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:24,400
forcibly somewhat, but to escape
from the other. 

2004
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:27,560
So I don't know that those raids
are happening anymore. 

2005
01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:29,920
Maybe they're a little bit 
because they're not all the free

2006
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:34,080
folk joined, but the ones at 
Hardhome things went bad. 

2007
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:36,920
So more on that in a minute. 
We'll come back to Hardhome 

2008
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:41,560
briefly now. 
Either way, whatever theories or

2009
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:43,520
guesses we have, we don't know 
what's going on here. 

2010
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:46,040
It's definitely a good example 
of a plot not finished yet. 

2011
01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:48,000
Manderly built the ships. 
He may have built ships for the 

2012
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:50,200
Umbers, too. 
We haven't seen those ships 

2013
01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:52,480
deployed do anything. 
They haven't done a thing yet. 

2014
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:54,920
I kind of doubt that that's how 
it'll end. 

2015
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:57,120
I've met those ships will 
probably do something, maybe not

2016
01:42:57,120 --> 01:42:59,080
a lot, but something. 
Maybe a lot. 

2017
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:04,920
So this leads us to an important
conspiratorial idea. 

2018
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:09,280
If the Manderlys and Umbers were
working together on this 

2019
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:13,400
project, maybe they work 
together on some other things. 

2020
01:43:13,640 --> 01:43:18,200
Thinking about anti Bolton 
stuff, anti phrase, a little 

2021
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:21,040
more straightforward, but anti 
Bolton's important too. 

2022
01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:24,440
That's a little more. 
That's a bigger problem because 

2023
01:43:24,440 --> 01:43:25,760
the Bolton's are in charge in 
the North. 

2024
01:43:26,480 --> 01:43:28,400
But yeah, think about it that 
way. 

2025
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:31,200
It's it's they had they were 
forced to work together, they 

2026
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:33,320
might realize they have more in 
common than they think. 

2027
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:36,240
They might realize they have 
plenty of enemies in common. 

2028
01:43:36,480 --> 01:43:40,000
They both presumably wants the 
Starks back in charge and 

2029
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:44,120
Manderley is all for he's 
working with Glover to bring 

2030
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:46,920
Rick on back and get Davos to go
do that. 

2031
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:53,480
Manderley goes to the Winterfell
for the wedding of fake Arya to 

2032
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:56,520
Ramsey and hatha Umber is there 
too. 

2033
01:43:57,160 --> 01:43:59,360
Maybe, yeah, maybe they 
communicated. 

2034
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:01,400
Maybe they are working together 
in secret. 

2035
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:05,240
They do have a lot of the same 
goals it it's definitely stands 

2036
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:08,680
to reason. 
Let's go back S though, while 

2037
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:12,160
this is happening up N, things 
are continuing in the South and 

2038
01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:15,320
they are taking a downturn, 
shall we say. 

2039
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:17,200
This section is called Kingdom 
in jeopardy. 

2040
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:21,080
Great John. 
Of course, no change in him 

2041
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:27,640
being Rob's loud right hand man,
but his mood sours like it like 

2042
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:31,080
so many other northerners do 
because things are going wrong. 

2043
01:44:31,080 --> 01:44:35,240
It's not going so well anymore. 
They were all it was all cheers 

2044
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:38,080
and success early on, but things
start to turn against them. 

2045
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:41,760
He's still loud and boisterous, 
but you could tell he's not that

2046
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:43,600
that the mood has shifted even 
for him. 

2047
01:44:44,440 --> 01:44:47,160
He's the one that delivers the 
news about Brandon Ricken. 

2048
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,240
The message comes to him first, 
or he's the one that receives it

2049
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:52,200
through whoever there at the 
crag. 

2050
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:57,120
When that happens, that's of 
course when he makes the big 

2051
01:44:57,120 --> 01:45:02,760
mistake with Jane Westerling. 
So they make their plan to take 

2052
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:04,960
the North back. 
They're like, OK, Theon ran, 

2053
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:07,000
they did all this stuff, but 
here's what we're going to do. 

2054
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,600
Rob comes up with a battle plan.
That battle plan involves 

2055
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:11,560
attacking MO Caitlin from 
multiple places. 

2056
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:13,960
Great John's going to lead to 
distraction coming up from the 

2057
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:16,760
South and great John's excited. 
He's like, yeah, no problem. 

2058
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:18,720
Of course we're going to win. 
He's still very positive. 

2059
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:21,200
He's very confident. 
He never wavers on that. 

2060
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:25,520
He's like, y'all better do, 
you're better be there on time 

2061
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,520
or I'm going to already have 
taken it by myself. 

2062
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:30,880
You know, very, very boisterous,
very you got to like that. 

2063
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:33,800
I mean, his positive attitude 
is, is infectious. 

2064
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:37,040
And then of course, though, the 
there's the Karstark incident, 

2065
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:40,640
the Karstark riccard Karstark 
leads his men to kill the two 

2066
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:44,600
Lannister prisoners and in the 
process they injure some 

2067
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:47,680
Mandrill, some umber men. 
When the when the Umbers come 

2068
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:52,720
to, you know, arrest them for 
that and Karstark calls Rob boy 

2069
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:55,400
during then on and umber punches
him for that. 

2070
01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:58,400
He's like don't call him boy. 
You know, it's so it's the 

2071
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:01,240
Umbers who capture the 
murderers, the Umbers who hang 

2072
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:07,160
the murderers, and then they all
end up facing the consequences 

2073
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:09,080
when they lose the lose the 
Karstarks. 

2074
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,720
And just before that, right when
they when the phrase find out 

2075
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:17,000
what Rob has done with Jane 
Westerling, they leave angrily 

2076
01:46:17,080 --> 01:46:20,400
and great John is like attacked 
them like that would have been 

2077
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:22,880
dishonorable. 
It had a certain sense to it, 

2078
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:27,160
though, because obviously the 
phrase are going to bite back 

2079
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:29,680
later, but that's not what great
John saw coming. 

2080
01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:32,640
I don't think he's he didn't 
suspect Frey treachery. 

2081
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:36,800
Honestly, even though he in the 
moment thought Rob should attack

2082
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:39,200
them because he, you know, he 
sees them as traitors. 

2083
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,160
He still had no idea the Red 
Wedding was coming. 

2084
01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:45,320
He he may have been one of the 
least aware of it, which is 

2085
01:46:45,320 --> 01:46:46,640
where we're going now. 
Let's talk about the Red 

2086
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,640
Wedding. 
There's a very important detail 

2087
01:46:49,640 --> 01:46:52,760
that gives us a clue to how 
George plans to place Great John

2088
01:46:52,760 --> 01:46:54,560
in the narrative. 
This comes back to what I was 

2089
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:56,760
saying in the intro, the 
episode, which is that he has 

2090
01:46:56,760 --> 01:47:00,360
not actually fought anyone with 
a weapon that we've seen. 

2091
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,720
We've heard of his success in 
battles. 

2092
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:05,440
He's been at Rob's side several 
times. 

2093
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:07,640
He and his men burned those 
siege towers. 

2094
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:10,680
He's been in other battles and 
skirmishes, raids, what have 

2095
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:12,400
you. 
But it's all off page. 

2096
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:16,400
The one time we see him draw out
his sword and anger, it's when 

2097
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:20,120
Graywin bites off his fingers. 
And all along we've seen how big

2098
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:24,360
a drinker he is, right? 
And that's on full display at 

2099
01:47:24,360 --> 01:47:26,600
the Red Wedding, more so than 
anywhere else. 

2100
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:31,320
This is a sadly humorous moment 
here, when Catelyn is before 

2101
01:47:31,320 --> 01:47:33,720
things really get bad. 
She's just checking out the 

2102
01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:36,200
festivities, you know, observing
what's happening at the wedding,

2103
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:40,640
and we get this quote. 
The ale, wine and need were 

2104
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:43,280
flowing as fast as the river 
outside. 

2105
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:46,680
The Great John was already 
roaring drunk. 

2106
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:52,200
Lord Walder's son Merritt was 
matching him cup for cup, but 

2107
01:47:52,200 --> 01:47:56,360
Sir Waylon Frey had passed out 
trying to keep up with the two 

2108
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:59,600
of them. 
Catelyn Wood sooner Lord Umber 

2109
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:04,200
had seen fit to stay sober, but 
telling the Great John not to 

2110
01:48:04,200 --> 01:48:08,440
drink was like telling him not 
to breathe for a few hours. 

2111
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,320
So yeah, This is why you could 
tell he suspects nothing. 

2112
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:14,760
He's just partying as if there's
no tomorrow. 

2113
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,320
He's he. 
He's drunk really early in the 

2114
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:19,200
festivities and kept on 
drinking. 

2115
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:23,120
Remember, that was the Frey 
plan, their idea. 

2116
01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:26,240
They wanted to capture him. 
They knew that capturing him was

2117
01:48:26,240 --> 01:48:29,320
important, so they had that. 
They specifically had a plan for

2118
01:48:29,320 --> 01:48:30,720
him. 
You guys drink him under the 

2119
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:31,600
table. 
Didn't work. 

2120
01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:33,240
He's just too. 
You can't drink him under the 

2121
01:48:33,240 --> 01:48:36,640
table. 
He's also the one that carried 

2122
01:48:36,640 --> 01:48:39,520
Rosalind to the bedding when the
betting ceremony was happening. 

2123
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:40,960
He didn't take note of her 
crying. 

2124
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,120
No one did, really, except maybe
readers. 

2125
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:45,440
Catelyn didn't even hardly 
perceive what that meant. 

2126
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:51,240
So when things did pop off, when
the violence began, the Great 

2127
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:54,040
John wreaked havoc. 
Even though they had this 

2128
01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:57,560
specific plan to immobilize him,
they just couldn't because he's 

2129
01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:01,040
just, they underestimated how 
much he could drink. 

2130
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:04,360
Like, wow, this guy, It's 
astonishing. 

2131
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:10,600
His tolerance was just too high.
But we don't see this on page. 

2132
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:14,200
This is something we hear about 
after the fact, way later, the 

2133
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:15,880
last chapter of A Storm of 
Swords. 

2134
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:18,880
The Red Wedding's like close to 
halfway through, but we don't 

2135
01:49:18,880 --> 01:49:21,320
hear about this bit until the 
epilogue. 

2136
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:25,800
Merritt Frey is remembering it, 
and that's when we learn quote. 

2137
01:49:26,440 --> 01:49:30,720
You shall have one task and one 
task only, Merritt, but I 

2138
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:32,640
believe you are well suited to 
it. 

2139
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:37,440
I want you to see to it that 
Great John Umber is so bloody 

2140
01:49:37,440 --> 01:49:42,520
drunk that he can hardly stand, 
let alone fight, and even that I

2141
01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:46,440
failed at. 
He'd cozened the huge Northmen 

2142
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:50,920
into drinking enough wine to 
kill any three normal men. 

2143
01:49:51,320 --> 01:49:55,080
Yet after Rosalind had been 
bedded, the Great John still 

2144
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:59,360
managed to snatch the sword of 
the first man to accost him and 

2145
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:04,000
break his arm in the snatching. 
It had taken eight of them to 

2146
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:09,040
get him into chains, and the 
effort had left two men wounded,

2147
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:15,080
one dead, and poor old Leslin 
Hay, short half an ear when he 

2148
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:19,080
couldn't fight with his hands 
any longer umber had fought with

2149
01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:22,160
his teeth. 
There's a certain level of 

2150
01:50:22,240 --> 01:50:23,920
subconscious understanding 
there. 

2151
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:25,160
First of all, he's just super 
mad. 

2152
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:27,120
He's super ferocious. 
He can't believe what's 

2153
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:31,480
happening and he's super drunk, 
but also he maybe on some level 

2154
01:50:31,480 --> 01:50:33,600
perceives that they're not 
trying to kill him, that they're

2155
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:36,520
trying to capture him so he 
could just keep fighting because

2156
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:38,520
they're not going to. 
They're not going to kill him. 

2157
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:42,320
So yeah, we didn't see that. 
This is just Merritt's memory of

2158
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:43,760
it. 
When when all the Red Wedding 

2159
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:46,600
things are happening. 
Catlin doesn't see this. 

2160
01:50:46,600 --> 01:50:48,360
He's in a great John is 
elsewhere. 

2161
01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:50,120
He's not in the same room when 
this happens. 

2162
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:53,360
So yeah, again, I got to come 
back to this. 

2163
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:56,480
Is George going to end this 
character without letting us see

2164
01:50:56,480 --> 01:50:58,720
him in action? 
I mean, you could call this 

2165
01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:01,160
action, but this isn't 
sufficient action really. 

2166
01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:05,760
Right now, Small John acts 
quickly when things turn bloody.

2167
01:51:05,760 --> 01:51:07,720
He's not drunk. 
He's one of Rob's guards. 

2168
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:10,840
It's his job to stay sober. 
But of course it's not enough. 

2169
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:16,560
There's so many murderers here 
and so many of the Starks and 

2170
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:21,160
Umbers and Car Starks, etcetera 
are partying and drunk and not 

2171
01:51:21,160 --> 01:51:24,600
ready for this Small John. 
When the crossbow bills start 

2172
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:27,920
flying, he throws the table on 
top of Rob to shield him from 

2173
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:31,440
crossbow bolts. 
It's a one of them, probably the

2174
01:51:31,440 --> 01:51:34,280
most effective move any of them 
could have done. 

2175
01:51:34,480 --> 01:51:36,760
Like the guard, his guards had 
little they could do. 

2176
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:40,560
This was the only thing remotely
close to effective that anyone 

2177
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:44,520
did, so good on him. 
But he goes for his sword belt, 

2178
01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:47,120
which is hanging on the door. 
Gets hit by a crossbow bolt, 

2179
01:51:47,320 --> 01:51:50,920
drops to his knees, gets 
beheaded by a Bolton man with an

2180
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:55,080
axe. 
An unknown Bolton man So when 

2181
01:51:55,080 --> 01:51:58,880
we're considering all the things
great John is going to be mad 

2182
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:02,440
about like when he's mad in that
moment he's killing because 

2183
01:52:02,440 --> 01:52:05,480
they're trying to capture him. 
He doesn't even yet know exactly

2184
01:52:05,480 --> 01:52:07,560
what's happened. 
He can make some assumptions 

2185
01:52:07,560 --> 01:52:09,520
like they've probably done 
something to rob. 

2186
01:52:10,080 --> 01:52:11,680
He doesn't know what's happened 
to his son. 

2187
01:52:12,120 --> 01:52:15,560
He might find that out in prison
or at some point. 

2188
01:52:16,160 --> 01:52:20,360
But so he's going to be mad 
about not just the killing of 

2189
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:25,000
Rob, not just this, the killing 
of the Kingdom that he put the 

2190
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:27,880
wheels into motion for, but the 
killing of his son in heir 

2191
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:31,120
that's probably bigger than 
either of the other two, if not 

2192
01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:35,440
as big. 
And this is again, bringing it 

2193
01:52:35,440 --> 01:52:37,520
back to manderly Umber 
connection. 

2194
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:40,200
What happened at the Red Wedding
on the Mannerly side? 

2195
01:52:40,480 --> 01:52:43,720
Willis Manderly was killed. 
Willis Manderly was the heir to 

2196
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:46,680
White Harbor. 
So Willis Manderly killed Small 

2197
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:48,760
John, killed the heir to those 
houses. 

2198
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:52,800
Both of them killed, both 
survived by their fathers just 

2199
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:55,920
as Manderley is playing nice. 
Remember Manderley acting like 

2200
01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:58,560
I'm on your side ruse. 
I'll make a few snarky comments 

2201
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:00,040
here and there, especially at 
the phrase. 

2202
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:02,040
But hey, I showed up with my 
man. 

2203
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:04,200
I'm you know what? 
If I I'm I'm with you, right? 

2204
01:53:04,200 --> 01:53:07,080
Yeah, we're on the same team. 
Umbers are doing the same thing.

2205
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:09,520
Hathor Umbers doing the same. 
Yeah, we're on the same team. 

2206
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:13,400
Sure, I brought my men here, but
in in their head, they're 

2207
01:53:13,400 --> 01:53:15,760
thinking, just give me a chance 
to kill these phrase or these 

2208
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:17,360
Boltons. 
They're just waiting for their 

2209
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:21,080
opportunity, whether it's baking
them into pies on the on the, on

2210
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:25,000
the sly or, you know, waiting 
for an opportunity to do things 

2211
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:27,280
in the open if the political 
situation shifts. 

2212
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:29,760
So Great John's in prison. 
We'll come back to him in a 

2213
01:53:29,760 --> 01:53:32,360
minute. 
His uncles are the ones that are

2214
01:53:33,000 --> 01:53:36,840
chained as well, the giants that
they are chained by his 

2215
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:40,320
imprisonment chaining The Great 
John put chains on his uncles as

2216
01:53:40,320 --> 01:53:43,960
well, Not literal chains, but it
limited their movement and they 

2217
01:53:43,960 --> 01:53:46,640
knew that that was the point. 
That's why they didn't kill 

2218
01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:49,160
Great John. 
They wanted to cripple, 

2219
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:52,000
immobilize the rest of the 
Umbers like, well, none of the 

2220
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:54,800
Umbers will act as long as we 
hold their Lord. 

2221
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:58,600
Even if they want him dead, Even
if they want him dead like they 

2222
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:01,120
the the uncles might be like, 
yeah, well, if he dies, maybe we

2223
01:54:01,120 --> 01:54:03,640
can seize Last Hearth for 
ourselves. 

2224
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:06,120
They don't want to do that 
openly because that's just looks

2225
01:54:06,120 --> 01:54:09,080
bad. 
So they might, might want it to 

2226
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:11,560
happen, but they're not going to
make it happen. 

2227
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:13,680
They're not going to let anyone 
know that they wanted that to 

2228
01:54:13,680 --> 01:54:15,880
happen. 
But maybe they don't want it at 

2229
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:17,040
all. 
Maybe they're loyal. 

2230
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:19,480
So let's talk about them. 
This is the section. 

2231
01:54:19,480 --> 01:54:21,400
It's called Greybeards and Green
Boys. 

2232
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:26,880
When Lewin is dying, when they 
find Maitre Lewin dying after 

2233
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:31,000
the sacking of Winterfell, he, 
he's like, you got to take the, 

2234
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:32,800
he tells OSHA, You got to take 
the kids to safety. 

2235
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:36,120
You got to get them out of here.
And he's like White Harbor or 

2236
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:40,120
the Umbers again, Manderly and 
umber Right. 

2237
01:54:40,800 --> 01:54:43,160
Like one of those two. 
You know, like, he named those 

2238
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:46,240
two as the best shot. 
So, so much makes sense that 

2239
01:54:46,240 --> 01:54:49,480
they would work together, given 
they are sort of aligned like 

2240
01:54:49,480 --> 01:54:50,520
this. 
They have so much in common 

2241
01:54:50,520 --> 01:54:51,800
here. 
We know they're working together

2242
01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:53,200
in the matter of the ships. 
Yeah. 

2243
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:55,280
And again, what did we say 
earlier? 

2244
01:54:55,280 --> 01:54:57,960
Hoth or Umber complained that 
Great John took too many men S 

2245
01:54:57,960 --> 01:55:00,880
for King Rob's war. 
That's why this section has the 

2246
01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:06,800
name it does because Hoth or 
Umber he his army, his 

2247
01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:09,640
contingent of about 400 men is 
made-up of Gray beards. 

2248
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:12,560
And Moore's doesn't even have 
that. 

2249
01:55:12,560 --> 01:55:16,480
He's got green boys with spades,
young men and dudes who were 

2250
01:55:16,480 --> 01:55:18,920
maimed in previous battles. 
So there's just not like this is

2251
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:23,520
not the the cream of their 
fighting force, but it still can

2252
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:26,720
be effective. 
So this is I want to, this is I 

2253
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:28,480
mentioned this earlier, I want 
to draw this comparison. 

2254
01:55:28,480 --> 01:55:31,600
It's a very different the 
comparison between Great John 

2255
01:55:32,280 --> 01:55:37,680
and Last Hearth versus Carhold. 
These are two houses very close 

2256
01:55:37,680 --> 01:55:39,880
to each other, right? 
Their castles are maybe as close

2257
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:42,920
to each other as any other. 
So he trusts his uncles. 

2258
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:44,440
You know, there's a lot of 
people out there that are like, 

2259
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:46,920
you know, Roderick isn't keen on
Moors. 

2260
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:49,440
Daniella Hornewood calls him a 
drunken brute. 

2261
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:52,880
Catlin calls both of them old 
Horry briggins. 

2262
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:56,080
So there's a lot of like 
mistrust of these guys from 

2263
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:59,720
people who would know, yet great
John who would know even better,

2264
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:03,440
makes them Co castellans like he
trusts them. 

2265
01:56:04,520 --> 01:56:06,880
And this is the opposite of the 
car stark situation where 

2266
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:14,160
Alice's uncle Rickard's brother 
was left in or great or yeah, or

2267
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:16,200
his uncle, I forget which. 
It might be Alice's great uncle 

2268
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:18,960
doesn't matter. 
He's left in charge of car hold 

2269
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:21,320
and instead of doing right by 
his family, he tries to take it 

2270
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:23,680
for himself. 
He tries to forcibly marry Alice

2271
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:26,720
or Craigen does he tries to help
his his son Craigen do that. 

2272
01:56:27,560 --> 01:56:29,720
The great John's uncles could 
theoretically do that too. 

2273
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:33,000
There's great John's daughters 
are there and they, one of them 

2274
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:36,040
could try to seize Last Hearth, 
but not only did they not do 

2275
01:56:36,040 --> 01:56:38,400
that, they go out and do other 
things. 

2276
01:56:38,920 --> 01:56:43,000
They're not even at Last Hearth.
So it worked out that there's 

2277
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:45,880
two of them because they can do 
the whole both sides thing. 

2278
01:56:46,480 --> 01:56:50,200
One joins Bolton, the other 
drones Stannis, you know, and 

2279
01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:53,360
they probably talk this out. 
They're like, you go do this, 

2280
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:56,080
I'll go do that. 
And they have like a plan to 

2281
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:58,800
meet in the middle somehow, 
right? 

2282
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:01,640
Like, I'll betray Bolton 
eventually, you know, and, you 

2283
01:57:01,640 --> 01:57:03,760
know, wait for the right moment.
They, they're not against each 

2284
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:05,960
other. 
These are two guys that were 

2285
01:57:05,960 --> 01:57:08,960
drinking together, hanging out 
together, having fun together. 

2286
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:12,400
They're, they're brothers. 
They didn't just suddenly decide

2287
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:14,720
to take different sides. 
No, this is an act. 

2288
01:57:14,720 --> 01:57:18,840
This is all part of playing 
nice, letting Roose Bolton see 

2289
01:57:18,840 --> 01:57:20,520
the alliance, seeing the 
loyalty. 

2290
01:57:20,520 --> 01:57:23,720
At least one umber with soldiers
is on his side. 

2291
01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:28,760
But he also says hey Umber won't
fight umber you know, he says 

2292
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:31,720
that very clearly he will. 
They won't fight each other. 

2293
01:57:31,720 --> 01:57:34,080
And that's something that both 
leaders Stannis and Bolton have 

2294
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:37,160
to contend with. 
Dionne tells Asha when he's got 

2295
01:57:37,160 --> 01:57:39,960
Winterfell that the Umbers are 
massing men to take back 

2296
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:46,080
Winterfell, but he's either 
mistaken or they just don't 

2297
01:57:46,080 --> 01:57:48,680
come. 
For one thing, again, it doesn't

2298
01:57:48,680 --> 01:57:52,240
seem like there would be enough 
men to mass because so many went

2299
01:57:52,240 --> 01:57:54,040
S. 
But on the other hand, hawthor 

2300
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:57,200
Umber brought 400 men to MO 
Kaelin and then to Winterfell. 

2301
01:57:57,840 --> 01:58:04,560
But those men did not show up to
help Roderick and Clay Serwin 

2302
01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:07,880
take back Winterfell. 
They weren't part of that group.

2303
01:58:08,040 --> 01:58:10,600
The group that Ramsay snuck at, 
sneak attacked and and 

2304
01:58:10,600 --> 01:58:12,760
slaughtered. 
There were not Umbers in that 

2305
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:14,440
group. 
So what happened to those? 

2306
01:58:14,960 --> 01:58:16,880
So what happened to their? 
Why weren't why didn't they show

2307
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:18,040
up? 
Was Theon wrong? 

2308
01:58:18,040 --> 01:58:20,560
Did he lie? 
How did he even know that they 

2309
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:23,560
were doing that? 
Maybe they're maybe someone told

2310
01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:25,040
him that hoping it would scare 
him. 

2311
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:26,600
I don't know. 
It's still just just curious 

2312
01:58:26,600 --> 01:58:28,680
though. 
I don't really have a complete 

2313
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:30,600
answer, but I wanted to draw 
your attention to it. 

2314
01:58:31,240 --> 01:58:33,600
Now, Horsbane and Bolton, let's 
talk about the two individuals 

2315
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:35,920
and how they're relating to the 
to these two leaders. 

2316
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:39,880
Davos, when he goes to White 
Harbor and starts to learn the 

2317
01:58:39,880 --> 01:58:43,320
lay of the land and hear the 
news, get the rumors in that bar

2318
01:58:43,320 --> 01:58:47,480
he goes to, he hears that 
Hothor, that Horsbane is riding 

2319
01:58:47,480 --> 01:58:50,040
with Bolton to Moat Kalin. 
And it's true. 

2320
01:58:50,160 --> 01:58:52,400
And that's where we get those 
numbers, 300 Spearman, 100 

2321
01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:53,680
Archers. 
These are greybeards. 

2322
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:57,720
The men aren't needed though, 
thanks to Theon's diplomacy. 

2323
01:58:57,720 --> 01:59:00,680
He cons the Ironborn out of MO 
Kalen and then Ramsey flays 

2324
01:59:00,680 --> 01:59:03,800
them. 
So there was no, no men lost on 

2325
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:08,400
the Bolton side there. 
And then Hothor goes to the 

2326
01:59:08,400 --> 01:59:09,640
wedding. 
He's there for everything. 

2327
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:12,720
He's he's in Winterfell for the 
wedding, for all those murders, 

2328
01:59:12,720 --> 01:59:15,680
the the eventual launching of 
the troops to go tax Stannis. 

2329
01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:17,920
All along he's hating the 
phrase. 

2330
01:59:18,440 --> 01:59:20,200
He says a few things here and 
there. 

2331
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:24,200
He doesn't say anything negative
about the Boltons, probably 

2332
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:26,120
because he's keeping quiet, 
playing smart. 

2333
01:59:26,680 --> 01:59:30,120
He jokes here and there, He 
tells him, he laughs here and 

2334
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:32,280
there, just acting like he's not
a threat. 

2335
01:59:32,440 --> 01:59:35,400
You know, Hey, I'm part of the 
part of the crew, you know, 

2336
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:37,240
like, I'm just another 
Northerner like the rest of you.

2337
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:41,120
But this is almost certainly a 
distraction from what he's 

2338
01:59:41,120 --> 01:59:45,200
really after, which is an 
opportunity, a way to get rid of

2339
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:48,120
the Bolton's, a way to restore 
the Starks, perhaps. 

2340
01:59:48,120 --> 01:59:50,800
Maybe there's other ambitions. 
Maybe he's got some personal 

2341
01:59:50,800 --> 01:59:52,520
notions in there. 
He wants to get married again. 

2342
01:59:52,640 --> 01:59:56,360
If he performs good service, 
maybe he'll get a a Good Wife 

2343
01:59:56,360 --> 01:59:59,760
with some of some noble woman 
that the king will give him or 

2344
01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:02,000
the Starks will give him. 
That might be what he's 

2345
02:00:02,000 --> 02:00:05,160
thinking. 
He jokes with Roger Rizwell. 

2346
02:00:05,400 --> 02:00:09,200
He says a couple of things that 
maybe you're throwing that are 

2347
02:00:09,200 --> 02:00:12,040
causing confusion. 
You know, that are very sly. 

2348
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:15,760
Theon at one point sees him 
talking to Harwood Stout. 

2349
02:00:16,000 --> 02:00:19,600
Quietly, as if they're maybe 
conspiring now Harwood Stout is 

2350
02:00:19,600 --> 02:00:25,320
the guy who Ramsey is forcing 
him to throw feasts when we see 

2351
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:30,800
him and Roose early in A Dance 
with Dragons, when Roose has 

2352
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:34,280
this totally takes apart Ramsey 
and he's like, don't make me rue

2353
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:36,360
the day I raped your mother, all
that, that scene. 

2354
02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:38,600
That's when that happens. 
That's Harwood Stout's castle, 

2355
02:00:38,760 --> 02:00:42,560
which is near Baraton, like in 
next to Baraton, basically. 

2356
02:00:42,840 --> 02:00:44,280
So that guy doesn't like the 
Boltons. 

2357
02:00:44,280 --> 02:00:46,760
He's a a candidate to turn on 
them for sure. 

2358
02:00:47,320 --> 02:00:49,960
And so I think that might be 
what George is suggesting here, 

2359
02:00:49,960 --> 02:00:51,880
that maybe those two are 
conspiring, or at least we 

2360
02:00:51,880 --> 02:00:53,200
should be thinking about that 
possibility. 

2361
02:00:53,400 --> 02:00:55,640
It's what Theon is. 
It crosses his mind. 

2362
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:59,240
So now Rose is no fool. 
He may have bitten off more than

2363
02:00:59,240 --> 02:01:02,160
he could chew, but he hasn't 
forgotten who these people are. 

2364
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:04,320
He doesn't think Horsman can be 
trusted. 

2365
02:01:04,560 --> 02:01:08,480
He's right. 
Lady Dustin says he definitely 

2366
02:01:08,480 --> 02:01:11,440
can't be trusted. 
The only reason we can keep him 

2367
02:01:11,440 --> 02:01:14,240
in line at all is because the 
Great John's a captive. 

2368
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:19,200
If we lose that, we can't expect
anything but him to turn on us. 

2369
02:01:19,680 --> 02:01:23,680
She points out that to Amy's and
Sir Hostin, she's like, look, if

2370
02:01:23,800 --> 02:01:27,160
if Great John wasn't being held,
Hoth or Umber would pull your 

2371
02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:30,760
guts out and feed them to you. 
He she says that and Amy's and 

2372
02:01:30,760 --> 02:01:34,560
Sir Hostin are like, well, they 
should learn who they're learn 

2373
02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:36,480
who's in charge here. 
You know, they you know, blah, 

2374
02:01:36,480 --> 02:01:38,120
blah, blah. 
They're they get all uppity 

2375
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:40,440
about it. 
So everyone's blaming the 

2376
02:01:40,440 --> 02:01:42,680
phrase. 
They're all pointing it out. 

2377
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:44,560
The phrase are not having a good
time in the North. 

2378
02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:47,280
We covered that thoroughly in 
the Winterfell murders episode 

2379
02:01:47,280 --> 02:01:50,440
and and elsewhere. 
But there's no fool in here. 

2380
02:01:50,440 --> 02:01:53,680
Hor's Bain knows who killed 
Small John. 

2381
02:01:54,080 --> 02:01:57,400
It was a joint effort. 
Bolton's and Phrase killed Small

2382
02:01:57,400 --> 02:01:59,720
John. 
Bolton's and Phrase captured 

2383
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:02,160
Great John. 
That's who the vengeance is 

2384
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:03,960
pointed at. 
Give him his chance. 

2385
02:02:04,160 --> 02:02:07,000
Give his brother the chance. 
Give them both the chance. 

2386
02:02:07,320 --> 02:02:10,480
You'll see what happens on the 
flip side. 

2387
02:02:10,680 --> 02:02:15,440
Stannis asked John, can I trust 
crow food umber we got Bolton 

2388
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:18,320
knows he can't trust horsbane, 
but Stannis is like, well, can I

2389
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:22,360
trust Moore's crow food? 
John says he doesn't say no. 

2390
02:02:22,440 --> 02:02:26,080
He doesn't say yes. 
He says have him swear his oath 

2391
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:29,480
before a heart tree if you want 
him to, if you want to have a 

2392
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:32,560
chance of him trusting you, if 
you want a chance to trust him, 

2393
02:02:33,160 --> 02:02:35,280
that's your best bet. 
Make him swear before a heart 

2394
02:02:35,280 --> 02:02:38,920
tree. 
That might keep him in line, but

2395
02:02:38,920 --> 02:02:41,400
interestingly, Bolton doesn't do
Bolton doesn't have anyone swear

2396
02:02:41,400 --> 02:02:43,880
in front of a hard tree to him 
would have been an interesting 

2397
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:45,600
thing for him to try. 
Would they have done it? 

2398
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:48,120
Would they have lied? 
Maybe Bruce doesn't really 

2399
02:02:48,120 --> 02:02:50,480
believe that is binding. 
He's like, I don't I don't trust

2400
02:02:50,480 --> 02:02:52,240
that either. 
You know, I'm I'm Roose Bolton. 

2401
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:54,000
That doesn't people don't an 
oath. 

2402
02:02:54,000 --> 02:02:55,880
What is that? 
You know, even to a God, even to

2403
02:02:55,880 --> 02:02:58,560
the gods. 
It's more as who tells stannis 

2404
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:02,240
Umber will not fight umber for 
any cause, which I'm again, I'm 

2405
02:03:02,240 --> 02:03:05,880
guessing that this is maybe a 
value they already held, but 

2406
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:08,400
it's something that Hother and 
Moores talked out ahead of time.

2407
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:09,520
Like, hey, I'm going to join 
him. 

2408
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:11,840
You're going to join him. 
We're not going to fight each 

2409
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:13,680
other though, even though we're 
on opposite sides, we're not 

2410
02:03:13,680 --> 02:03:15,680
only going to not going to fight
each other, we're going to tell 

2411
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:18,560
our leader, you know, Bolton and
Santis that we're not going to 

2412
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:20,160
fight each other. 
So you got to manage that. 

2413
02:03:20,240 --> 02:03:22,280
That's the that's the condition 
of our support. 

2414
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:25,560
So the, this is the Moores. 
Remember, Moores is the elder of

2415
02:03:25,560 --> 02:03:28,200
the two and he's the one who got
the younger men, though he got 

2416
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:31,200
the green boys. 
Hother got the the 400 grey 

2417
02:03:31,200 --> 02:03:33,400
beards. 
And this is part of why maybe 

2418
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:38,240
Bolton accepted it or the status
quo because Hother joined him 

2419
02:03:38,240 --> 02:03:41,600
and Hother had the men. 
All Moores has is the green 

2420
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:42,880
boys, and not even a lot of 
them. 

2421
02:03:43,240 --> 02:03:47,520
So that's not as worrisome to 
Bolton, even though Moores puts 

2422
02:03:47,520 --> 02:03:51,560
them to maximum use. 
When he gets maximum benefit out

2423
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:55,400
of those green boys, he digs 
holes, he has them dig pit 

2424
02:03:55,400 --> 02:03:59,320
traps, he has them blow horns at
night to make the morale in 

2425
02:03:59,320 --> 02:04:02,720
Winterfell even worse, to make 
them think Stannis is here. 

2426
02:04:02,840 --> 02:04:06,400
They're like those horns. 
It means Stannis, right? 

2427
02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:09,440
But it's not. 
It's just just, it's just green 

2428
02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:12,720
boys with horns. 
And it works 'cause they they 

2429
02:04:12,720 --> 02:04:16,160
lose sleep, they get uppity, 
they get mad at each other, 

2430
02:04:16,160 --> 02:04:19,240
everyone's, everyone's 
distrustful inside the castle. 

2431
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,000
And then they ride out to scout 
and fall in the pit traps. 

2432
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:26,520
Anise is killed, Sir Hostin's 
horses killed. 

2433
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:31,040
Horsbane inside the castle. 
Like probably had a hard time 

2434
02:04:31,040 --> 02:04:32,800
concealing his smile when that 
happened. 

2435
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:34,760
He's like, yeah, that's my 
brother doing that. 

2436
02:04:36,240 --> 02:04:38,800
He probably knew. 
He doesn't think it's Stannis 

2437
02:04:38,800 --> 02:04:40,960
out there. 
Or if he does, he's like, sure, 

2438
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:43,560
bring it, Stannis. 
I'll stab these Boltons in the 

2439
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:44,800
back. 
Give me a chance. 

2440
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:48,560
Coming back to the Free Folk. 
There's a real irony here, A 

2441
02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:51,920
potential irony here. 
Anyway, remembered Mores 

2442
02:04:52,320 --> 02:04:55,640
Crowfood lost a daughter to the 
Free Folk 1 was kidnapped about 

2443
02:04:55,640 --> 02:04:57,120
30 years before the start of the
books. 

2444
02:04:57,840 --> 02:04:59,200
They already hated the Free 
Folk. 

2445
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:01,400
The The Umbers have hated the 
Free Folk for a long time, but 

2446
02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:05,600
Morris has more reason than 
Morris has more reason than most

2447
02:05:05,720 --> 02:05:07,800
to hate the Free Folk because 
they stole his daughter. 

2448
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:10,880
And that's why Mance Ryder has 
to be in disguise. 

2449
02:05:10,880 --> 02:05:14,040
One of the many reasons Mance 
Ryder has to be in disguise when

2450
02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:17,240
he goes to Winterfell is 'cause 
he can't see the he can't have 

2451
02:05:17,240 --> 02:05:22,680
the Umbers recognizing him. 
In fact, besides Moore's saying 

2452
02:05:22,680 --> 02:05:25,480
hey stannis Umber won't fight 
umber that's one of my 

2453
02:05:25,480 --> 02:05:28,960
conditions to joining you. 
The other condition is I want 

2454
02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:31,320
Mansrater's skull for a drinking
cup. 

2455
02:05:31,640 --> 02:05:36,440
So what would Moore's do or 
hother do if he found out 

2456
02:05:36,440 --> 02:05:39,480
Stannis was actually using 
Mansrater? 

2457
02:05:39,480 --> 02:05:43,360
That he concealed his death to 
keep him alive to do a this 

2458
02:05:43,360 --> 02:05:46,200
commando mission? 
What an irony. 

2459
02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:50,680
Theon and Jane escape because of
Mance and the spear wives. 

2460
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:53,440
And who gets them as soon as 
they jump over the wall? 

2461
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:59,040
Moors. 
So they only escape because of 

2462
02:05:59,040 --> 02:06:02,920
Mance, the guy that Moors once. 
It's a skull to drink out of, 

2463
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:05,920
the guy that he wants to kill 
more than anyone else in the 

2464
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:08,520
world. 
That's who helped Theon and Jane

2465
02:06:08,520 --> 02:06:11,440
get to him, and then he 
delivered them to Stannis. 

2466
02:06:12,240 --> 02:06:16,080
There's even a theory that one 
of the spear wives, Rowan in 

2467
02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:18,760
particular, is that kidnapped 
daughter. 

2468
02:06:19,560 --> 02:06:20,800
There's not a whole lot to go on
on it. 

2469
02:06:20,800 --> 02:06:23,680
It would fit because of her age,
but that's really all there is 

2470
02:06:23,680 --> 02:06:25,680
to it. 
It's it's kind of shot in the 

2471
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:28,120
dark, but it's possible. 
Now. 

2472
02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:31,720
Also, Moore's is the one to run 
into the banker Tycho Nestoris 

2473
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:33,600
because Tycho thinks Stannis is 
at Winterfell. 

2474
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:35,200
He's like, I'll go to Winterfell
and find Stannis. 

2475
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:37,000
Moores is like, wait, don't go 
there. 

2476
02:06:37,120 --> 02:06:38,640
There's Bolton's and frays in 
there. 

2477
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:40,920
Let me guide you to where 
Stannis actually is. 

2478
02:06:41,080 --> 02:06:47,800
And so he delivers Tycho and 
Theon and Jane Apul all at the 

2479
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:51,480
same time to Stannis, which 
just, that's doing good service 

2480
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:53,680
for Stannis. 
And then I presumably he just 

2481
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:57,760
returns to his position outside 
Winterfell blowing horns and 

2482
02:06:57,760 --> 02:06:58,680
digging holes 'cause they're 
not. 

2483
02:06:58,680 --> 02:07:01,040
Again, Stannis is not far. 
So he doesn't have to go that 

2484
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:03,440
far to get to deliver those 3 to
Stannis. 

2485
02:07:03,680 --> 02:07:07,760
Then they can come right back 
when the Frey armies March or 

2486
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:10,640
with them on the March. 
He might continue to hassle 

2487
02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:14,600
them, like maybe night ambushes,
more horn blowing, more just 

2488
02:07:14,800 --> 02:07:17,240
ways to throw off their morale. 
Anything to help the coming 

2489
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:20,880
battle be won by Stannis. 
We also don't know if Ramsey 

2490
02:07:20,880 --> 02:07:22,400
went or if the Manderleys are 
there. 

2491
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:25,840
We're not exactly sure which 
armies March for the coming 

2492
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:28,520
Battle of Ice. 
Clearly the phrase did. 

2493
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:31,440
But was it all of them? 
Was it most of them? 

2494
02:07:31,480 --> 02:07:32,840
Who else went? 
You know it's not. 

2495
02:07:32,840 --> 02:07:36,200
Not 100% sure of that. 
And that may affect what Moore's

2496
02:07:36,200 --> 02:07:37,680
does. 
If the Manderleys are with them 

2497
02:07:37,680 --> 02:07:41,480
and they're working together or 
he suspects they would be on his

2498
02:07:41,480 --> 02:07:46,400
side, then he might sneak into 
their camp and be like, hey, I'm

2499
02:07:46,400 --> 02:07:48,480
here. 
What's the plan? 

2500
02:07:48,480 --> 02:07:50,640
Let's backstab these stupid 
phrase. 

2501
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:52,560
The commander's like, yeah, I 
mean, we were already planning 

2502
02:07:52,560 --> 02:07:54,240
on doing that, So you, you want 
to help us? 

2503
02:07:54,240 --> 02:07:55,560
Yeah, let's do it. 
You know? 

2504
02:07:55,560 --> 02:07:59,080
And And the whole idea of 
Moore's digging pit traps is a 

2505
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:02,840
maybe reminder or suggestion of 
how Stannis is going to win the 

2506
02:08:02,840 --> 02:08:07,120
Battle of Ice by digging or 
making pits in the ice that that

2507
02:08:07,120 --> 02:08:10,000
the phrase will fall into. 
So it's another pit trap 

2508
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:14,840
scenario here, but these are pit
traps with frozen water beneath 

2509
02:08:14,840 --> 02:08:17,400
them where you drown and freeze 
rather than ones you fall into 

2510
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:19,680
and break your neck. 
Effective either way though. 

2511
02:08:22,800 --> 02:08:25,000
This next bit's called on the 
way to Skagos. 

2512
02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:28,560
OSHA LED Rickon and Shaggy Dog 
to Skagos right after that 

2513
02:08:28,560 --> 02:08:30,720
conversation with Lewin and and 
telling them they needed to 

2514
02:08:30,720 --> 02:08:32,200
split up. 
Don't have Brandon Ricken in the

2515
02:08:32,200 --> 02:08:34,040
same place. 
And, and from the North 

2516
02:08:34,040 --> 02:08:37,920
Remembers chapter with Davos and
Manderley and Robert Glover, it 

2517
02:08:37,920 --> 02:08:40,280
seems that happened. 
It seems they did get to Skagos.

2518
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:43,200
We'd be curious to know a little
bit more about how, like, if you

2519
02:08:43,200 --> 02:08:47,440
look at the map clearly from 
they wanted to go to Skagos, it 

2520
02:08:47,440 --> 02:08:49,800
looks like they'd have to go 
through umberland and take ship 

2521
02:08:49,800 --> 02:08:53,840
from there, which means they 
might have interacted with 

2522
02:08:53,840 --> 02:08:56,000
Umbers or they may have avoided 
the Umbers. 

2523
02:08:56,000 --> 02:08:58,440
I'm not sure which. 
But since Lewin said the Umbers 

2524
02:08:58,440 --> 02:09:02,800
would be a decent bet for 
safety, maybe there's a lot more

2525
02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:06,360
going on here in terms of OSHA 
and Rickon are known by the 

2526
02:09:06,360 --> 02:09:09,520
Umbers to have gone there. 
Or maybe they're going to tell 

2527
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:12,160
them later, but they may have 
just avoided them because 

2528
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:13,520
they're just, they're not sure 
who they could trust. 

2529
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:16,280
It's like it's better just to 
not let anyone know who or who's

2530
02:09:16,280 --> 02:09:18,360
here. 
But it also begs the question, 

2531
02:09:18,440 --> 02:09:21,280
who's actually in charge at Last
Hearth right now? 

2532
02:09:21,480 --> 02:09:24,480
It's not the Great John left 
Moors and Hawthor in charge, 

2533
02:09:24,480 --> 02:09:26,800
It's Coca Silan's. 
But they both left to go do 

2534
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:29,520
other business in the North, you
know, join Stannis, join Bolton,

2535
02:09:29,680 --> 02:09:30,680
you know, do all these other 
things. 

2536
02:09:30,840 --> 02:09:33,600
They're not at Last Hearth. 
So who's actually in charge? 

2537
02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:36,720
I don't know, there's a lot of 
umber still out there, younger 

2538
02:09:36,720 --> 02:09:38,680
ones, so maybe it's just some 
cousin. 

2539
02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:42,160
It's not like a super important 
question, but it is relevant 

2540
02:09:42,160 --> 02:09:45,800
that it's not Moore. 
Zerhother, Sir Godrey, the giant

2541
02:09:45,800 --> 02:09:49,440
Slayer, that Knight of Stannis's
who's a real loudmouth, the one 

2542
02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:52,760
that taunts John. 
He has a dim view of the Umbers,

2543
02:09:52,760 --> 02:09:54,360
though he doesn't actually know 
them personally. 

2544
02:09:54,360 --> 02:09:58,520
He just thinks of them as, you 
know, hairy, uncivilized 

2545
02:09:58,520 --> 02:10:01,320
Northern savages like so many of
other Southerners do. 

2546
02:10:01,960 --> 02:10:05,200
He doesn't believe Moores and 
Hoth or actually care about 

2547
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:07,000
Great John. 
He believes that they're just 

2548
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:10,760
putting on a front to because it
would be dishonorable. 

2549
02:10:10,760 --> 02:10:13,120
It would make them look bad if 
they didn't act like they were 

2550
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:16,560
trying to rescue their nephew, 
but he believed they actually 

2551
02:10:16,560 --> 02:10:19,880
want him to die. 
This is what he says quote. 

2552
02:10:20,080 --> 02:10:24,400
That is his pretext, not his 
reason, declared Sir Godrey. 

2553
02:10:24,960 --> 02:10:29,240
If the nephew dies in chains, 
these uncles can claim his lands

2554
02:10:29,240 --> 02:10:32,440
and lordship for themselves. 
The great John has sons and 

2555
02:10:32,440 --> 02:10:35,280
daughters both in the North. 
The children of a man's body 

2556
02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:36,760
still come before his uncle, 
Sir. 

2557
02:10:37,080 --> 02:10:40,400
Unless they die, dead children 
come last everywhere. 

2558
02:10:40,760 --> 02:10:44,480
Suggest that in the hearing of 
Moore's Umber Sir Gaudry and you

2559
02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:46,720
will learn more of death than 
you might wish. 

2560
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:52,120
I have slain a giant boy, why 
should I fear some flea ridden 

2561
02:10:52,120 --> 02:10:54,840
northman who paints one on his 
shield? 

2562
02:10:55,000 --> 02:11:00,880
That giant was running away. 
Moore's won't be good one John. 

2563
02:11:01,880 --> 02:11:05,960
He wins that war of words. 
Would be funny if this is some 

2564
02:11:05,960 --> 02:11:09,200
kind of foreshadowing for 
Moore's actually fighting Sir 

2565
02:11:09,200 --> 02:11:10,040
Gaudry. 
I don't. 

2566
02:11:10,040 --> 02:11:12,280
I don't know why Moores would 
fight one of Stannis's men 

2567
02:11:12,280 --> 02:11:15,440
though, because I think in the 
long run Stannis is is someone 

2568
02:11:15,440 --> 02:11:18,000
they like and want to help 
restore the Starks. 

2569
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:20,000
Maybe Hawther would though. 
I don't know. 

2570
02:11:20,360 --> 02:11:22,120
Maybe Hawther since he's 
currently with the Bulge. 

2571
02:11:22,120 --> 02:11:23,720
Maybe that's some way he has to 
prove himself. 

2572
02:11:23,720 --> 02:11:25,240
I don't know. 
Probably not, though. 

2573
02:11:25,560 --> 02:11:29,720
But it would be not funny but 
dramatic if Godrey's actually 

2574
02:11:29,720 --> 02:11:33,920
right, if his cynicism is on 
point, that one of these uncles 

2575
02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:37,280
is looking for a way to seize 
Last Hearth for himself, just 

2576
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:38,960
the opportunity hasn't yet 
presented itself. 

2577
02:11:39,520 --> 02:11:43,440
I don't think so, but it was 
certainly like the way George 

2578
02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:46,600
had characters refer to them 
earlier in the narrative kind of

2579
02:11:46,600 --> 02:11:50,560
indicated that might be coming. 
But more lately, it seems like 

2580
02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:53,160
they're doing right by the 
Northerns and the Starks, even 

2581
02:11:53,160 --> 02:11:55,520
if they're being really cunning 
and underhanded about it. 

2582
02:11:56,120 --> 02:12:00,080
So all I have to see it's George
is definitely keeping, you know,

2583
02:12:00,080 --> 02:12:02,320
the scales are like, well, it's 
hard to tell which way that's 

2584
02:12:02,320 --> 02:12:03,320
going. 
Are they dark? 

2585
02:12:03,480 --> 02:12:05,640
Are they not? 
Or is it some of both? 

2586
02:12:06,400 --> 02:12:08,760
It's hard to tell. 
And I, I, I do like that it 

2587
02:12:08,760 --> 02:12:12,920
keeps keeps us guessing. 
Here's our quote of the week. 

2588
02:12:13,240 --> 02:12:18,760
Appropriately enough, it's the 
book Last of the Wine by Mary 

2589
02:12:18,760 --> 02:12:21,600
Renault, and I say that because 
we talked earlier about how it's

2590
02:12:21,600 --> 02:12:25,120
the one thing or one of the few 
things the extreme northerners 

2591
02:12:25,120 --> 02:12:27,040
like about the South is their 
wine. 

2592
02:12:28,120 --> 02:12:33,360
Last of the Wine is set in 
Athens during the time just 

2593
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:36,960
before the Peloponnesian War and
then during the Peloponnesian 

2594
02:12:36,960 --> 02:12:41,280
War, which is a great long 30 
ish year conflict between Athens

2595
02:12:41,280 --> 02:12:45,720
and Sparta that embroiled much 
else of the Greek world. 

2596
02:12:45,800 --> 02:12:49,880
Lots of other city states got 
involved and it was really bad. 

2597
02:12:50,560 --> 02:12:53,200
Here's the quote. 
It was not that we were in love 

2598
02:12:53,200 --> 02:12:55,480
with the past. 
We were of an age to feel the 

2599
02:12:55,480 --> 02:12:59,040
present our own, and to suppose 
it would never outstrip us in 

2600
02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:00,720
painting and sculpture and 
verse. 

2601
02:13:00,840 --> 02:13:04,000
The names we grew passionate 
overlook to us as big as those 

2602
02:13:04,000 --> 02:13:07,560
of Pericles Day, and it still 
half surprises me when I'd find 

2603
02:13:07,560 --> 02:13:11,160
them unknown to my sons. 
But we seldom stood to enjoy 

2604
02:13:11,160 --> 02:13:15,120
good work as one stands before a
fine view or a flower, and 

2605
02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:18,920
simple greatness that it is. 
As we held each new artist, we 

2606
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:22,400
grew angry with the former ones,
as with false guides we had 

2607
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:24,800
caught out. 
We hastened, though we knew not 

2608
02:13:24,800 --> 02:13:26,880
where, to. 
Freedom, we said. 

2609
02:13:27,040 --> 02:13:30,040
The sculptors no longer 
proportioned their forms by the 

2610
02:13:30,040 --> 02:13:34,880
golden number of Pythagoras and 
Pheidius and Polyclitos did and 

2611
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:38,720
art would do great things. 
We said now it had cast off its 

2612
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:43,280
chains. 
So what's going on there is the 

2613
02:13:43,280 --> 02:13:48,080
he's describing how they got 
arrogant, they got cocky, they 

2614
02:13:48,080 --> 02:13:54,160
got they forgot where they came 
from and they started to look at

2615
02:13:54,160 --> 02:13:58,120
the originators of these art 
forms as weaker as less than, 

2616
02:13:58,120 --> 02:14:00,920
even though they're the ones who
invented it and were part of the

2617
02:14:00,920 --> 02:14:04,240
chain that comes to the current 
times that they were Speaking 

2618
02:14:04,240 --> 02:14:06,520
of. 
Art builds on art, right? 

2619
02:14:06,520 --> 02:14:08,960
Art imitates previous art. 
Everyone learns from previous 

2620
02:14:08,960 --> 02:14:11,520
generations. 
And this speaks to the the level

2621
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:16,720
of arrogance within Athens that 
led to taking on a military 

2622
02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:20,320
power like Sparta when both they
both tore each other apart. 

2623
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:21,520
It was terrible for both of 
them. 

2624
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:25,040
I really love this book. 
I read it a long time ago. 

2625
02:14:25,040 --> 02:14:28,400
I've read Mary Renault's entire 
catalog, so I really think she's

2626
02:14:28,400 --> 02:14:30,520
great. 
She's had a hard time as an 

2627
02:14:30,520 --> 02:14:32,480
author. 
She lived in the 70s, she's a 

2628
02:14:32,480 --> 02:14:35,920
lesbian and that was not a good 
time to be in the UK as a 

2629
02:14:35,920 --> 02:14:38,200
lesbian. 
So eventually she left and lived

2630
02:14:38,400 --> 02:14:41,880
in a commune in I think South 
Africa or somewhere in Africa 

2631
02:14:42,280 --> 02:14:45,720
where it was just in it like 
they had their own space and 

2632
02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:48,760
they were away from all the, the
hate and she was able to be an 

2633
02:14:48,760 --> 02:14:53,240
author and peace. 
Anyway, you can get that book or

2634
02:14:53,240 --> 02:14:56,760
other Marinault books or any 
book, whether on hard copy or 

2635
02:14:56,760 --> 02:14:58,480
through Audible. 
You can get an audible 

2636
02:14:58,480 --> 02:15:01,640
subscription through our trials.
You get a, a free subscription, 

2637
02:15:01,640 --> 02:15:03,600
a free download, free book, 
maybe this one. 

2638
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:08,080
Go to historyofwesteros.com. 
You can also shop through Amazon

2639
02:15:08,080 --> 02:15:09,240
there. 
There's a lot of different links

2640
02:15:09,240 --> 02:15:10,800
we have that help you support 
the show. 

2641
02:15:10,800 --> 02:15:13,440
And if you're going to shop on 
Amazon, do it through us. 

2642
02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:15,040
If you're going to do some 
online shopping, do it through 

2643
02:15:15,040 --> 02:15:17,760
Amazon through our links. 
It doesn't cost you any more. 

2644
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:21,240
We get a cut, including books or
audiobooks. 

2645
02:15:22,120 --> 02:15:26,440
This next section is called 
Sigil is Coming, and it is the 

2646
02:15:26,440 --> 02:15:29,520
climax of this episode because 
as I said at the beginning, we 

2647
02:15:29,520 --> 02:15:33,600
have big unfinished plot lines 
with the umber with house umber 

2648
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:35,640
and this is where we talk about 
that. 

2649
02:15:36,400 --> 02:15:40,600
What I mean by Sigil is Coming 
is that their sigil is a giant 

2650
02:15:40,600 --> 02:15:43,960
breaking its chains. 
Almost every umber is described 

2651
02:15:43,960 --> 02:15:46,760
as a giant. 
Almost every umber is in chains,

2652
02:15:46,760 --> 02:15:50,800
literal or figurative right now.
Great John unleashed from prison

2653
02:15:50,800 --> 02:15:57,640
could be quite a sight right? 
That ferocity pent up added in 

2654
02:15:57,640 --> 02:16:02,480
the mix you add his righteous 
vengeance slash justice for Rob 

2655
02:16:02,760 --> 02:16:05,040
and the Kingdom he inspired and 
his son. 

2656
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:09,720
It could have a domino effect 
though, because the unleashing 

2657
02:16:10,280 --> 02:16:16,640
of the Great John will unleash 
Mores and Hawthor there wearing 

2658
02:16:16,640 --> 02:16:20,400
chains of their own because they
can't act as long as Great John 

2659
02:16:20,400 --> 02:16:24,760
is in prison. 
So once he's out, they're out. 

2660
02:16:25,120 --> 02:16:28,360
His freedom to act is their 
freedom to act. 

2661
02:16:28,680 --> 02:16:31,000
They no longer have to worry 
about consequences to him if 

2662
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:33,280
he's out and free. 
They can do whatever they want. 

2663
02:16:33,920 --> 02:16:37,000
So we could have a whole bunch 
of Umbers Unchained at once. 

2664
02:16:37,000 --> 02:16:40,320
Let the Great John free Great 
John, and that frees Moores and 

2665
02:16:40,320 --> 02:16:43,040
Hauther. 
We could have Unchained, 

2666
02:16:43,040 --> 02:16:47,719
unrestrained, unashamed, right? 
They're they're Dornish too 

2667
02:16:47,719 --> 02:16:49,440
right now. 
They want to, they got, everyone

2668
02:16:49,440 --> 02:16:52,080
gets their own version of 
unbowed, unbent, unbroken. 

2669
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:56,799
Right now, the uncles, this, 
this unchaining of the uncles 

2670
02:16:57,320 --> 02:17:00,840
could turn dark. 
Maybe Sir Godrey's right. 

2671
02:17:00,840 --> 02:17:04,200
Maybe there's early warnings 
from Sir Roderick and maybe Lady

2672
02:17:04,200 --> 02:17:06,840
Donnella, maybe even Catlin. 
Maybe those will prove true. 

2673
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:08,360
Maybe these uncles aren't 
trustworthy. 

2674
02:17:08,360 --> 02:17:09,760
Maybe one of them isn't 
trustworthy. 

2675
02:17:10,440 --> 02:17:13,879
So we can't just assume that 
just because the Great John is 

2676
02:17:13,879 --> 02:17:18,520
safe, that they will just 
immediately become Stannis's 

2677
02:17:18,520 --> 02:17:21,280
best warriors or best commanders
or something like that. 

2678
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:23,320
Most loyal. 
They they might go the other 

2679
02:17:23,320 --> 02:17:24,360
way. 
We don't know. 

2680
02:17:24,879 --> 02:17:27,120
I do think they're likely to 
help. 

2681
02:17:27,120 --> 02:17:30,160
I think they're likely to be 
most on the side of good, on the

2682
02:17:30,160 --> 02:17:33,400
side of the Northerners. 
But we got to consider the 

2683
02:17:33,400 --> 02:17:37,760
alternatives now. 
Jamie ordered the phrase to send

2684
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:39,320
all their prisoners to King's 
Landing. 

2685
02:17:40,040 --> 02:17:45,520
That includes the Great John. 
That is 1 particular way that he

2686
02:17:45,520 --> 02:17:48,120
could get free because the 
Brother Without Banners have 

2687
02:17:48,120 --> 02:17:52,719
been watching every bit of 
movement of Jamie's men, of his 

2688
02:17:52,719 --> 02:17:55,440
army, of him particularly. 
Obviously, he's already been 

2689
02:17:55,440 --> 02:17:59,400
captured by Stoneheart, so 
there's a that's one way he 

2690
02:17:59,400 --> 02:18:02,280
could be freed. 
There's other ways too, and the 

2691
02:18:02,280 --> 02:18:06,959
most fitting place for his 
return to seek vengeance justice

2692
02:18:06,959 --> 02:18:10,840
would be the theorized Red 
Wedding 2 point O, which might 

2693
02:18:10,840 --> 02:18:12,440
take place at River Run or the 
Twins. 

2694
02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:16,160
The first one he's captured at 
the second one he's unleashed 

2695
02:18:16,160 --> 02:18:19,600
on, right? 
He's the victim of the first 

2696
02:18:19,920 --> 02:18:23,320
perpetrator of the second. 
That would be very fitting, 

2697
02:18:23,360 --> 02:18:24,480
right? 
Great. 

2698
02:18:24,480 --> 02:18:27,080
John gets his revenge at Red 
Wedding 2 point O. 

2699
02:18:27,200 --> 02:18:30,360
The ones who to the frays, The 
Lannisters, the ones that did 

2700
02:18:30,360 --> 02:18:32,040
this. 
He'd have to get some Boltons 

2701
02:18:32,040 --> 02:18:33,600
elsewhere. 
There won't be any Boltons at 

2702
02:18:33,600 --> 02:18:35,760
this wedding, but he won't 
forget. 

2703
02:18:36,240 --> 02:18:39,040
The North remembers, and he's as
northern as they get. 

2704
02:18:39,040 --> 02:18:40,280
What have we been saying all 
along? 

2705
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:44,719
The embers evoke Northern, you 
know, vibes more than any other 

2706
02:18:44,719 --> 02:18:48,000
house in the North. 
Or at least tied for, right. 

2707
02:18:48,959 --> 02:18:53,320
So man, few he's been, few men 
are capable of doing the kind of

2708
02:18:53,320 --> 02:18:55,480
damage he is, right? 
We talked about how big and 

2709
02:18:55,480 --> 02:18:57,440
ferocious he is. 
He's probably the second or the 

2710
02:18:57,520 --> 02:18:59,840
largest living man in Westeros 
right now. 

2711
02:19:00,600 --> 02:19:04,040
An avatar of vengeance, a giant 
of justice, the living 

2712
02:19:04,040 --> 02:19:05,760
embodiment of the North. 
Remembers. 

2713
02:19:08,440 --> 02:19:09,920
Yeah, lots of things. 
He has to go. 

2714
02:19:10,000 --> 02:19:10,799
It was. 
And again, it. 

2715
02:19:10,840 --> 02:19:15,400
OK, I already pointed out Rob 
the Kingdom, his son, But all 

2716
02:19:15,400 --> 02:19:17,959
those men, he brought more men 
than he should have. 

2717
02:19:17,959 --> 02:19:20,799
According to his uncle's South, 
those men are pretty much all 

2718
02:19:20,799 --> 02:19:24,680
dead too, though a lot of them 
would be men he had fought with 

2719
02:19:24,680 --> 02:19:29,280
many times as like cousins, 
maybe distant cousins, trusted 

2720
02:19:29,280 --> 02:19:32,080
loyalists, families that have 
worked with the Umbers, been 

2721
02:19:32,080 --> 02:19:34,160
vassal to the Umbers for 
thousands of years. 

2722
02:19:34,160 --> 02:19:40,080
These are, it's very personal 
fallout zone hard homes. 

2723
02:19:40,080 --> 02:19:42,559
This is a real brief section, 
just a theory or an idea that I 

2724
02:19:42,559 --> 02:19:45,959
wanted to present nights watch 
ships that are having all those 

2725
02:19:45,959 --> 02:19:48,160
troubles. 
You know, one or two of them ran

2726
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:50,880
aground on Skagos. 
Another one like went under. 

2727
02:19:50,880 --> 02:19:53,640
Maybe that happens on umberland.
Maybe they crash into the umber 

2728
02:19:53,640 --> 02:19:55,160
shores there. 
They're not that far away. 

2729
02:19:56,000 --> 02:19:59,840
And the disaster at Hard Home, 
the fallout there, what's, 

2730
02:19:59,840 --> 02:20:03,440
what's it going to lead to many 
refugees fleeing around the 

2731
02:20:03,440 --> 02:20:04,680
wall. 
That some of the ones that 

2732
02:20:04,680 --> 02:20:07,680
didn't go to join Stannis didn't
go South. 

2733
02:20:08,000 --> 02:20:09,240
There's still at least some of 
them there. 

2734
02:20:09,240 --> 02:20:11,640
Some of them survived. 
A lot of them died at Hardhome 

2735
02:20:11,640 --> 02:20:15,360
when with that big accident or 
whatever happened, whether the 

2736
02:20:15,360 --> 02:20:18,400
others did that or who knows, 
something's happening there. 

2737
02:20:18,400 --> 02:20:21,200
Dead men in the water, dead 
things in the water, you know. 

2738
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:25,040
But Umbers aren't going to be 
keen on Free Folk refugees. 

2739
02:20:25,040 --> 02:20:27,040
They just, that just doesn't fly
there. 

2740
02:20:27,520 --> 02:20:30,160
Stannis will take them, but the 
Umbers, I don't think so. 

2741
02:20:30,840 --> 02:20:32,400
But it's not just Free Folk, 
right? 

2742
02:20:32,400 --> 02:20:35,120
Remember what happened with 
those giants and their mammoths?

2743
02:20:35,720 --> 02:20:38,680
They couldn't fit through the 
wall, they didn't want to leave.

2744
02:20:38,680 --> 02:20:40,200
They're like, we're not going to
abandon each other. 

2745
02:20:40,200 --> 02:20:42,040
The mammoth can't fit through. 
What do they do? 

2746
02:20:42,040 --> 02:20:45,360
They went E, they were going to 
go around the wall that would 

2747
02:20:45,360 --> 02:20:48,800
put them in umberlands. 
Would the Umbers be mad about 

2748
02:20:48,800 --> 02:20:51,320
that, or would they be like, 
hey, I kind of like mammoths. 

2749
02:20:51,640 --> 02:20:55,080
Whose side are you on? 
You know, I don't know how to 

2750
02:20:55,080 --> 02:20:57,640
predict what would happen there.
I'm sure they're used to free 

2751
02:20:57,640 --> 02:21:00,400
folk Raiders, but what do they 
do about giants who aren't 

2752
02:21:00,480 --> 02:21:03,280
actually doing violence? 
They're just fleeing from the 

2753
02:21:03,280 --> 02:21:04,920
others. 
I have no idea how they'd to 

2754
02:21:04,920 --> 02:21:07,640
react to that, but it's not the 
same as the free folk. 

2755
02:21:08,800 --> 02:21:11,040
Give me your prediction on that 
if you care too, because that's 

2756
02:21:11,040 --> 02:21:13,080
a tough one. 
Or anything else you've you've 

2757
02:21:13,080 --> 02:21:15,240
got predictions on here. 
There's a lot of room for theory

2758
02:21:15,240 --> 02:21:17,520
work here. 
Would love to hear what you have

2759
02:21:17,560 --> 02:21:20,600
in mind. 
So this last part, just just to 

2760
02:21:20,600 --> 02:21:23,520
summarize here, the umbers are 
down, but not outro. 

2761
02:21:24,160 --> 02:21:28,000
They're severely depleted in 
manpower, but most of the 

2762
02:21:28,000 --> 02:21:31,480
leaders are still around. 
Only Small John was killed and 

2763
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:33,520
there's a lot of moves they can 
still make. 

2764
02:21:33,520 --> 02:21:35,520
There's a lot they're going to 
want to do, especially Great 

2765
02:21:35,520 --> 02:21:37,360
John. 
The whole idea of vengeance. 

2766
02:21:37,760 --> 02:21:40,080
What about if Stannis wins? 
What are we looking forward? 

2767
02:21:40,080 --> 02:21:41,920
If Stannis wins? 
Does Rickon show up? 

2768
02:21:41,920 --> 02:21:44,920
Do the Umbers start cheering for
him? 

2769
02:21:44,920 --> 02:21:48,040
Do they do other things? 
Does Great John even live that 

2770
02:21:48,040 --> 02:21:50,680
long? 
This is where I very briefly 

2771
02:21:50,680 --> 02:21:51,800
mention the TV show. 
Again. 

2772
02:21:51,800 --> 02:21:54,520
I don't think there's any merit 
to what happened in the show 

2773
02:21:54,520 --> 02:21:58,560
with Small John turns evil and 
works with the Boltons. 

2774
02:21:58,560 --> 02:22:00,880
Like I don't know how to 
reconcile that. 

2775
02:22:00,880 --> 02:22:03,560
Like small John obviously isn't 
that in the in the books at all.

2776
02:22:04,200 --> 02:22:07,120
Are we supposed to assume that's
that's one of the uncles that 

2777
02:22:07,120 --> 02:22:09,480
would do that that would help 
the Boltons? 

2778
02:22:09,920 --> 02:22:11,880
I mean, they're already planning
on turning on the Hawthorne's 

2779
02:22:11,880 --> 02:22:14,840
going to turn on the Boltons 
most likely so, or at least 

2780
02:22:14,840 --> 02:22:16,200
scheming to. 
So why would he? 

2781
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:19,000
Why would he stay with them when
their star is falling? 

2782
02:22:19,000 --> 02:22:22,840
So I just don't think the show's
version of events with regards 

2783
02:22:22,840 --> 02:22:27,240
to the Umbers and even Ricken 
are is very valid for us to make

2784
02:22:27,240 --> 02:22:30,680
predictions in the books. 
So I just throw that out. 

2785
02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:36,080
The trivia answer, what was Lord
Harman Umber's nickname? 

2786
02:22:36,120 --> 02:22:39,000
I gave you a hint that he was a 
contemporary of Artos the 

2787
02:22:39,000 --> 02:22:42,640
Implacable. 
And the answer was in the 

2788
02:22:42,640 --> 02:22:44,160
episode. 
If you are, if you didn't know, 

2789
02:22:44,160 --> 02:22:46,840
you may have heard, if you were 
listening carefully, but you may

2790
02:22:46,840 --> 02:22:50,800
have already known the answer, 
which is the drunken giant, yet 

2791
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:54,840
another drunk umber yet another 
big umber very consistent, these

2792
02:22:54,840 --> 02:22:57,160
guys. 
At the beginning of the episode,

2793
02:22:57,160 --> 02:23:01,760
I posted a poll or Shay, I 
posted a poll and I read you all

2794
02:23:01,760 --> 02:23:03,080
the questions. 
Here's the result. 

2795
02:23:03,640 --> 02:23:07,200
The great John will meet his 
end. 6% said in the South. 

2796
02:23:07,200 --> 02:23:09,320
So very few of you believe that 
he will die in the South. 

2797
02:23:09,320 --> 02:23:12,800
I tend to agree with that. 21% 
of you think he will survive the

2798
02:23:12,800 --> 02:23:14,880
series entirely. 
It's fairly optimistic. 

2799
02:23:14,880 --> 02:23:16,000
I like that. 
I hope that happens. 

2800
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:19,120
But you know, given how 
aggressive he is, you know, he 

2801
02:23:19,120 --> 02:23:21,480
might be, he's putting himself 
in a lot of danger, let's put it

2802
02:23:21,480 --> 02:23:24,480
that way. 23% of you think he'll
die. 

2803
02:23:25,120 --> 02:23:27,600
Two other humans in the North, 
it'll be human means, you know, 

2804
02:23:27,600 --> 02:23:32,520
regular battle versus human 
foes. 47% of you think so. 

2805
02:23:32,520 --> 02:23:34,760
Almost half think that it's 
going to be the supernatural 

2806
02:23:34,760 --> 02:23:37,200
that he meets his end with. 
So fighting the others, fighting

2807
02:23:37,200 --> 02:23:40,200
the whites, the great battle at 
Winterfell, maybe he'll be part 

2808
02:23:40,200 --> 02:23:43,840
of that. 
Hopefully he doesn't rise again 

2809
02:23:43,840 --> 02:23:47,720
as some dangerous foe as a 
white. 

2810
02:23:47,720 --> 02:23:48,880
You know, I don't want that to 
happen. 

2811
02:23:48,880 --> 02:23:51,360
We can't have the great John 
turning on his own men or on the

2812
02:23:51,360 --> 02:23:53,240
Starks. 
Hopefully if he does die to 

2813
02:23:53,240 --> 02:23:57,280
them, they burn him or get that 
dragon glass in his chest or 

2814
02:23:57,280 --> 02:24:01,200
whatever it takes. 
We bet you a lot of episodes 

2815
02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:04,680
today that were led to this one.
The Battle of Ice, the Red Kings

2816
02:24:04,680 --> 02:24:10,840
of the Dread Fort, the Karstark 
episode, the Skagos episode, the

2817
02:24:10,840 --> 02:24:14,080
Hardhome episode. 
We have a Craster episode. 

2818
02:24:14,440 --> 02:24:17,280
We have the Theon Winds of 
Winter chapter episode that that

2819
02:24:17,280 --> 02:24:21,080
contains a lot of these events. 
We have our Weirwood tour 

2820
02:24:21,080 --> 02:24:23,320
episode, actually a pair of 
them. 

2821
02:24:24,040 --> 02:24:26,480
There's a few others I mentioned
that I'm that I didn't mention 

2822
02:24:26,480 --> 02:24:28,200
here too. 
There's just too many, so many. 

2823
02:24:28,440 --> 02:24:29,960
This one overlaps with a lot of 
them. 

2824
02:24:30,360 --> 02:24:32,560
So we brought a lot of new 
information here today, but it 

2825
02:24:32,560 --> 02:24:34,720
definitely ties into a lot of 
things we've said before. 

2826
02:24:35,280 --> 02:24:37,960
It's a big world. 
This is a song of ice and fire. 

2827
02:24:38,560 --> 02:24:40,160
Thanks everybody for hanging out
today. 

2828
02:24:40,160 --> 02:24:43,320
We appreciate your support. 
We appreciate you watching and 

2829
02:24:43,320 --> 02:24:45,000
listening and sharing it with 
your friends. 

2830
02:24:45,520 --> 02:24:49,440
Thanks to Nina for her great 
notes, for getting me some good 

2831
02:24:49,440 --> 02:24:53,280
ideas to vamp on and to explore 
further. 

2832
02:24:53,800 --> 02:24:56,320
Thanks to Joey Townsend for our 
music. 

2833
02:24:56,480 --> 02:24:59,360
Thanks to Michael Klarfeld for 
our video intro. 

2834
02:24:59,680 --> 02:25:05,080
Get his maps at KLARADO x.de 
claredox.de. 

2835
02:25:05,080 --> 02:25:08,440
Very excellent maps. 
Hang them on your wall like we 

2836
02:25:08,440 --> 02:25:10,800
do. 
Look cool like ours do. 

2837
02:25:11,520 --> 02:25:14,080
That's it everybody. 
We'll see you next time. 

2838
02:25:14,080 --> 02:25:18,160
On behalf of Ashea, I'm Aziz, 
and you know what to do. 

2839
02:25:18,880 --> 02:25:20,520
Valar reread us.