George R Martin once said in reference to the cutting of the
five year gap, If a 12 year old has to conquer the world, then
so be it. The natural first thought here
is one of the Starks, or maybe Danny.
But the only Stark who is in the neighborhood of 12 without the
five year gap is Aria. The rest are older and Danny as
well as older. They are 12 well past 12
already, unless you're talking about Bran, who is well less
than 12, and Rick on even more. So a character who was very
clearly part of George's plans for after the five year gap is
our subject today, Lord Edrick Dane of Starfall.
He's 12 when we first meet him, and without the gap, he, you
know, could be one year older at most by now.
But he was 12 when George made that comment.
But already he's been subtly shown to be formidable.
So George won't have to stretch if he wants to have this 12 year
old take over the world. Which of course we don't mean
that literally. He doesn't mean that literally
no one's going to take over the world.
But Barrack was killed 6 times. Edrick was likely by his side
for several of those, yet like Thoros of Mirror is apparently
hard to kill. How's Dane has always been a big
part of George's plans, Edrick aside in a manner that indicates
their role is for later in the story.
The Danes aren't a big part of the Wars of the Five Kings, and
until Dark Star came along, they weren't really part of the drama
in Dorne either. During the war, Edrick was an
outlaw, though he didn't begin that way.
He was a King's man like Barrick and the rest, and the world
turned upside down for them, as they said.
How's Dane were and certainly are a part of some of the
biggest mysteries raised since the start of the story.
What's up with the sword? What does Edric know about
Arthur Aschara, the Tower of Joy?
John's parentage, the history of his house itself is a compelling
topic, and surely he has been taught some things about his
heritage that so far we haven't been taught.
It's something they're proud of after all, something that wins
them respect amongst Westeros's noble culture, because the more
ancient your family line is, the more prestige comes with that.
And Edrik's lineage is arguably as old as it gets.
The Lords of Starfall have a claim that they are the oldest
family in Westeros, or close enough that no one can say
otherwise. It may not be true, and like I
said, it's not provable, but they do have that claim and it's
hard to argue against that. Furthermore, Edrick Dane is the
only character so far that has been Squire to an Undead Knight,
the only firewhite in the story so far.
John might be about to be there, and John and Edrick Dane may
encounter each other. What a strange thing.
That might be strange and interesting because, well,
Edrick will have had experience with this in a way that no one
else has. And at his age too, that makes
it particularly interesting. There's really nothing like him
in a world of detailed and unique characters.
Ned Dane's circumstances, background, meta considerations,
planned role, I mean, he touched his own aspects of the story and
the world that only the Starks approach.
And his story is deeply entwined with them, especially Arya and
Jon Snow. All that and more on this
episode of History of Westeros podcast.
Hello and welcome back everybody.
It's another Sunday. It's 3 Eastern on YouTube.
On YouTube. It's 3 Eastern on YouTube.
Yeah, that counts. We just had a nice daylight
savings time here. So for some of you, it's a
little different time, but hey, this is where we are.
Our Sundays are live stream time.
Daylight saving time. Daily savings.
Oh yeah, as Kent Davidson would say.
And Veep. That's a good point.
You know, this a single. Yeah, it is only one saving.
You can catch our episodes elsewhere.
Every video is, of course, on YouTube.
It's an edited version if you check it out on Spotify.
And the audio only versions of our show are available anywhere
you find podcasts. And if you listen on Patreon,
they're at free. Good.
A shout out to our good friend Nina Good queenalley.tumblr.com.
She's on her honeymoon right now, so Congrats.
That's great. Have some fun there.
But before she departed on her honeymoon, she dropped some
excellent notes into this episode document, and you should
be checking out her blog from time to time.
The latest post is a question about Aegon the 4th and the
Brackens, and a little bit about the Blackwoods and all that
mess. It's a good question, a multi
part question, and Anita answers it very thoroughly at the end of
this one. I will certainly mention
episodes that relate to this one.
There's some definite overlap with some other episodes, and if
you have questions for us, send them to
westeroshistory@gmail.com or if you're here live during the
stream, go ahead and drop them in the comments and a Shaya will
pick up that for me. Here is the trivia question to
start us off. I will reveal the answer at the
end, but the answer is also revealed during the episode if
you're paying close attention. How old was Edrick Dane when he
became Lord Barracks Paid? Is the question.
Let us now turn to the different sections of this episode.
I will read you those and then we'll get to it.
We have our setup, which includes the first appearance
and 1st mention of Edric Gain. Then we have a history of Edric
Starfall to Black Haven and to King's Landing.
Then we have King's Men, which refers to the Brother Without
Banners in their initial role. A Squire to the undead to outlaw
the duel. What does he know?
No Barrack, no Brotherhood, 12 year old Conqueror, sort of the
morning question mark and. That'll be it.
Hope you enjoy this episode, let's get to it.
We have a poll to start us off. If you all are here live or if
you're catching the episode on Spotify, the poll will appear
there as well. Will Edrick Dane wield Dawn?
Simple yes No2 choices. Will he wield it or no?
Doesn't matter if he wields it for long or short, just will he
wield it at all. I don't mean just, you know,
touch it, hold it, but will he wield it, you know, like swing
it at somebody or carry it into battle with him, that kind of
thing. First appearance and mention,
his actual first mention is in the appendix of the Game of
Thrones, so he is certainly not a character bolted on later.
In fact, the appendix page dedicated to the Martels also
includes Ario Hota and Maester Kaliot.
So those are characters that don't appear for a long time,
but they are there and under the his Knights and Lords Bannerman
section of House Martel, it says Edric Dane, Lord of Starfall and
nobody else. There's no other Knights and
bannerman for Dorn. Then it lists all the principal
houses of Dorn after that and that's where you get all the
names you would expect, but it also includes Dane again.
So only one Lord of Dorn is named apart from Doran himself,
and he's a Prince really so and it's Edrick.
So that's that's telling in a bit.
Certainly proves that he was part of the plans from the
beginning. Now, of course, that doesn't
mean his plans for Edrick haven't changed in in fact, he's
one of the most likely characters we can point to whose
plans George has changed, and that's a large part because of
the five year gap, but not only because of that.
So that is a question we're going to seek to answer
throughout this episode. How much did he change it?
How much and what will he change it to?
What's the context of these changes?
So we'll try to get into that throughout the episode.
It's not a single question, something that we will come back
to on and off. Here's the first appearance
quote. Your sword you shall have
declared Lord Barrack, but your innocence must be your armor.
Clegane's mouth twitched. My.
Innocence against your breastplate, is that the way of
it? Ned, help me remove my
breastplate. Arya got goosebumps when Lord
Barrack said her father's name. But this Ned was only a boy, a
fair haired Squire, no more than 10 or 12.
He stepped up quickly to undo the clasps that fastened the
battered steel about the martyr Lord.
George draws attention to the matching nicknames, which has a
subtle implication. It kicks off some thoughts in
Arya's mind, which leads to eventually her discussing some
things with Edrick that are fairly revealing.
We'll talk about those a little later.
There's also an implication of familiarity.
Ned Nina points out here. Barrick doesn't refer to Edrick
as Edrick it or my Lord or anything like that, which is
often how 1 Lord speaks to another.
Even though he's a Squire, he is a Lord.
He's equal to Barrick in terms of lordly rank, even though he's
in a subordinate position as his Squire.
But Ned is is a nickname. It's an affectionate thing.
It's it's a something that shows that they're very close to each
other. You know that that kind of
familiarity. That's to the point where they
have dispensed with the normal titles that are so common in
this regular day-to-day speech between nobles.
Also it's pretty interesting that we have a Dornish Lord
squiring for a marcher Lord his. Historically they are opposed to
each other. Although to be fair, the
Dondurians wouldn't have fought the Danes very much because the
Danes are western Dorn, so they would more likely have been
ancient enemies of the Tarly's and more of the marcher marcher
areas in the Reach rather than the Stormlands.
But still, Dornish versus Reacher is a that's still an
enemy over thousands of years. Here's the first time he
actually speaks. Edrick Dane does and it's a
great intro. You have a house.
That was stupid. He was a Squire.
Of course he had a house. Who are you?
My lady. Ned looked embarrassed.
I'm Edrick Dane, the the Lord of Starfall.
There's a lot in those two sentences or so that big brief
exchange if we learn that he's a Dane and a Lord because we
didn't know that prior to this moment.
If it's your first read and his name is Ned again, that all of a
sudden is is telling right? That part just the nickname,
which is itself like, wait, Ned? Why is he called Ned?
I mean, shouldn't the Danes be upset, if not worse with Ned
Stark? Why would they nickname the heir
to their house the same thing as this guy who's a, you know,
controversial figure in their history?
That's very telling, isn't it? Not in a way that Arya would
detect, but for us readers, it's.
Whoa, wait, what's up that? Also, it shows us that he's a
little shy. It gives us a little insight to
his personality. The majority of 12 year old
Lords of Westeros would be proud of it, if not boastful.
So he's also modest. Maybe it's shyness, but it's
also he's not this blustering, a typical character that you see.
That's a little awkward for Ned. Maybe he's not typically
recognized as a Lord. He's maybe a little shy about
that too, given the way he introduces himself there and
basically pointing out who he is.
I it comes off to me as he doesn't want to point out that
he's so much higher born than other people.
He thinks it's like, it's like it's like embarrassing for him
to be like, yes, I'm so much better than you.
I'm not actually saying I'm better than you.
But if I tell you I'm Lord Dane, then that has implications.
But I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to give you those
implications. I'm actually an A humble kid,
you know, but it's hard to get that right away, right?
He has to, you have to learn that about him.
There's not a lot of other Edricks in the story.
There's Edrick Storm, of course, who is a good example of someone
that's very proud of his heritage.
It's it's notable that Davos, I think Davos thinks that Edrick
Storm loves to remember who his father is, but forgets to
remember his the circumstances of his birth.
And yeah, so this is very different.
Edrick Storm way prouder of his heritage, way bolder about it,
way more outspoken about it than Edrick Dane, who is actually of
a Lord of Starfall. That's a character who might
make for a solid parallel, someone who George may have
introduced to help set up a 12 or 13 year old war leader, if
not Conqueror, if not Wielder of Dawn.
If not, well, who knows lots of other great things that a 13
year old who's just had a growth spurt, which George would
probably do if he's going that route.
So think about bloody Ben Blackwood.
Even younger. Actually became Lord at age 11.
Also shy and sensitive. Also very capable, though in the
field, especially so perhaps in a category of characters who
don't like or even hate war but are good at it anyway.
Rhaegar Targaryen's another one. Ned Stark too, another worthy
comparison. Now, his lordship came at 18, he
wasn't quite as young, but he also isn't someone that likes
war, or he's not someone that's particularly violent.
He's good at it, he'll do what needs to be done, but he's not
going to seek it out. So Edrick is 12 in the scene.
Like we said, our guess he's 10 or 12.
He is 12. He might be 13 now.
Two whole books have passed since that scene, but whatever,
not a big difference. It's unclear how long he's been
Lord of Starfall. He wasn't Lord of Starfall when
he left to become Lord Barrack's page when he was 7, but at some
point in between the five years since then, he became Lord.
Now he's not described as big, but remember what happens when
the Brotherhood Without Banners before their the Brotherhood
Without Banners gets ambushed by Gregor and his men.
Barrett gets lanced by Gregor and falls into the river and
Barrett and Edrick pulls him out of the river.
That's a man in full armor soaked wet.
So he's a heavier because of the water.
So that would take a little bit of strength.
I think, you know, that's not a job for a weakling.
Ari describes him not as big or tall, but she does think of him
as not small because she's surprised that he isn't.
She thinks Dornish men are supposed to be small and
swarthy, and he is neither. She notes that his hair is pale,
more ash than honey. So yeah, very like grayish.
Maybe not quite silvery, not as lustrous as the Targaryens.
But we all have heard this before about the Danes, that
some of them have this color hair.
She also notes that he's very polite and well spoken, and she
appreciates that Gendry doesn't think Gendry's a little jealous.
Hey, there's some very humorous conversations between the three
of them. Arya throws crab apples at
Gendry for being rude, and Gendry says, well, at least your
father raised his bastard. Mine's probably some smelly
drunk. Right you are, Gendry, and he
didn't raise you. Good point.
Let's go back in time before that scene to talk about a
history of Edrick. He was born in 287, so three to
four years after Robert's Rebellion.
Notably, this means he never knew Sir Arthur or the
mysterious Lady Ashara. He also didn't likely know his
own father very well because, as we said, he was sent off when he
was 7 and then his father would have died within a few years.
So that's all the experience he had with his father, which to me
suggests that Barack Dondarian becomes his father figure.
More on that later. We don't know this father's
name. Oddly enough, we know all the
others. We know Arthur, Arthur, Ashara,
and Illyria. So good chance his name starts
with an A, right? So we'll call him Lord Dane A or
a Lord Dane. So yeah, those are his younger
siblings. So we also don't know who his
wife was. We don't know his first name or
his wife, so we don't know what other house Edrick descends
from. Not super important necessarily,
but we would like to know. Maybe we will one day.
It's possible she was a second wife.
It's also possible Edrick had older siblings who were killed
during Robert's Rebellion or something like that.
Because he's pretty young to be a first born, right?
This is his age is way high. He he's it's seems like he would
have been born when his father was something like in his 30s,
if not already in his 40s. So that's that's telling.
So we don't think he has any siblings or living siblings.
Some highborn women pass on breastfeeding and have wet
nurses no matter what. But apparently Edrick's mother
legitimately just couldn't. She just didn't have milk,
apparently. Maybe she had some health
issues, who knows. Illyria, his aunt, is the one
living member of his branch of the family that we know of, so
he may he might have uncles and aunts or something like that.
Other cousins. Dark Star is a cousin, but a
distant cousin. He's a Dane of High Hermitage,
not a Dane of Starfall. Illyria's age is also unknown,
but her betrothal to Lord Barrack happened at the same
time that Edrick was sent to be a page for Berrick and they
never got married. It was a betrothal that was
never completed. It was never never got to the
marriage stage. Which implies she was young,
that there's other reasons they didn't get married.
Quite possibly, but this is I think is the most likely that
she wasn't 16 yet. And then, you know, but the war
happens and Berrick goes off and stuff happens, and now he's not
really a great candidate for marriage anymore at that point.
Then he's gone. So not a candidate at all.
So that's a little interesting though, that Illyria might be as
much as like 20 years younger than Ashara and Arthur and
Edrick's father. There's a lot of theories out
there that Illyria is not their sister, but a daughter of Ashara
and Ned. I doubt that, but the fact that
George has kept a lot of this fairly hidden, clearly intending
it to be revealed later that lack of clarity is where a lot
of this room for theorizing comes from.
But to me, I think it's just more likely that yeah, they just
his the father remarried and just had a second child with a
different mother. So maybe Illyria is 1/2 brother
or half sister to Ashara and Arthur and Edrick's father.
Now Nina does supply some other possibilities.
The the too young thing is not the only option.
The political circumstances could have changed between her
being betrothed and the time of the main novels.
For example, there's no other Dane siblings or cousins for
Edrick, and no other living aunts or uncles beyond Illyria.
It's possible that Illyria was betrothed before she became the
heiress presumptive to Starfall. She might be second in line to
inherit Starfall, in which case the Danes would not want that
marriage to go through because then the Darndarians would
inherit Starfall most likely. So they don't want that to
happen. That's a very good reason to to
delayed America. I think that's a really good
reason. Yes, that's a very good reason.
Yeah. So it's also possible that both
are true. She could be too young and the
heir to * heir presumptive to Starfall, which is a chintzy
situation for the inheritance. So yeah, there's lots of
possibilities here that go beyond some conspiracy to
conceal parentage, but that also is possible.
We can't throw that out. Yeah.
Edrick becomes uncomfortable when talking about this subject.
He's like, yeah, my and Illyria was is betrothed to Lord
Barrack, but that happened before.
He doesn't really know how to finish the sentence.
And it's like before he died. Yeah, Barrack's undead.
He does not make for a good husband anymore.
He living. He made for a great one.
I think, you know, who knows what he's like in a
relationship, but the man was just absolutely upstanding and
honorable and all that. So instead of a Dondarian
marrying a Dane, which. Almost happened here back in the
time of Daron the Second. Daron the Good Baylor brakes
beer. His first born son married Jenna
Dondarian, while another of his sons, Makar, married Deanna
Dane. Now this is also has political
implications. Daron the Good was trying to
create peace in the realm and part of that was to balance the
issues between Dorne and what his what Daron the First had
done invading Dorne. There's still a lot of problems
from that. So what you see here is Darren
marrying 2 of his sons, 21 to a donde, 21 to a martyr Lord and
one to Adain Adornish House. So keeping them both happy,
bringing them both into the royal fold, making them in laws
of each other. They're not that close.
They didn't marry each other, but they're both now connected
to the same royal family. So that's a very strong impetus
for them to behave and to keep the peace right now, of course,
as a lot of y'all may be aware, all current Targaryens descend
from Makar and Deanna Dane. Since Baylor's line didn't
continue, his two sons died in the Great Spring Sickness.
So that means even Daenerys has some Dane in her.
It's, you know, several generations back, but you know,
it, it might matter, might come up as like a point of interest
if, say, for example, Danny was ever to meet Edric Dane.
It's like, hey, we have some distant ancestry.
We are actually related. We're actually distant cousins
might matter. Starfall.
He was born in Starfall, so that's where we start with his
timeline, his chronology. There's a point of interest from
almost the moment he's born. Since we're told that Willa was
his net, was his wet nurse. I almost said net worth.
What's a net worth? That's a bad net.
Don't go fishing With that, he tells Aria that he is Jon Snow's
milk brothers. She's like, wait, what milk
brother? You're not related.
She doesn't know what that means.
He explains that milk brothers, not Blood Brothers.
Edrick is about four years younger than John.
Now this is notable because Willa went to Winterfell with
Ned Stark as nurse as wet nurse to Jon Snow, right?
Which Edrick is Speaking of here to Winterfell.
Willa lived at Winterfell for several years.
To be wet nurse for Edrick. She had to go back to Starfall.
Not strange, not hard to believe.
But you might not have noticed that once John was weaned, it
seems she went back to Starfall. And there's other reasons she
might have gone back. That's where she's from, so she
might have just wanted to go home.
It's cold up there. Actually, I don't like it up
here. It's the North.
Also, there may have been some drama, right?
Catelyn might not have liked her.
There's rumor, you know, Catlin and other people trying to suss
out the deal here and and Ned trying to shut all that down
never mention the name of Shara again.
So if he's thinking that people are trying to figure out things
from Willa, it would make sense to send her away so that no
other Northerner could ask her those questions.
If she's not there, she can't be grilled by grilled about her
history or about John's history. And obviously that's a secret
Ned was very intent on keeping. So by the way, a weaning has a
different meaning in different parts of the world.
In the US, it means you're done nursing.
In the UK, it just means the introduction of solid food.
So it's very, very different now.
It fits the timeline very well. We, like we said, Edrick is 4
years younger than John, and John could have easily been
weaned by age 4 or close enough that it makes no matter.
Now, Catelyn does remember that when she asked about John's
origins, Charles Dane's name was never spoken again in
Winterfell, according to her, and in part that would be
because Willow was sent away. Willow was certainly not there
by the time Catelyn has that thought in her first chapter in
A Game of Thrones, which would be more than a decade since she
went back to Starfall, or about a decade, Yeah, maybe like 11
years. So all fits very well.
And Edra confirms to Ari that Willa served his family for
years and years since before I was born.
So she's probably up there now. She's probably no longer a wet
nurse because, you know, you don't think you can be a wet
nurse when you're like 50 years old.
And if she had served his family for years and years before he
was born and she was obviously John's nose a wet nurse, well,
that's already 20 years on top of how old she was.
So she'd at least be in the in her 40s, I think.
What does milk brothers actually mean?
Let's talk about that because it's a little confusing.
At one point, George in an interview or at a convention, I
don't remember the circumstances, he said that
Edrick was stretching the definition of milk brothers
because to him, in George's world, apparently milk brothers
are nursing off of the same woman at the same time.
But honestly, I think George got it wrong because that's not how
it works in the real world. In the real world, most of the
time, a wet nurse is just nursing one person at a time.
And it stands to reason because here's how it goes, right?
Let me, let me lay this out for you and it's going to make a lot
of sense. Most of the time wet nurses work
for a rich family, right. OK.
The wet nurse lives with them. Well, unless there's multiple
babies, there's only one rich child to be nursing.
Maybe there's a, maybe there's a four year old and a one year
old. So, yeah, sometimes there's two,
but sometimes they'll hire two different wet nurses 'cause I
mean, it is a lot, it is a lot of nutritional, you know,
necessity there. There's a lot going on.
So in the body, it's, it's taxing on the woman.
So yeah. Rich women have been paying.
For wet nurses since longer than we have records of it, it's just
implied to have existed for thousands of years now.
To be fair, even though I think George may have gotten it wrong,
quote UN quote, he he can't have gotten it wrong because this is
how it works in his world. So apparently milk brothers in
his world does tend to mean you were weaned or nursed at the
same time. Let's just not get confused with
how that works in the real world. 11 exception in the real
world that's not pleasant is slavery, where it's very common
for slave women to be made into wet nurses.
And of course another exception is twins or triplets or what
have you. Of course, twins and triplets
are part of the reason a wet nurse has brought in some of the
time. Maybe the mother does want to
breastfeed, but I have three. I have triplets.
Like I need help. You know, here's something I
pulled just for fun. It's a wet nursing receipt, a
receipt from the year 187 AD, October 13th.
Can you believe that we have the actual date?
This is to me kind of funny because of how it starts here.
I'll read it to you. Chozion, son of Sarapion, son of
Harpukratian, his mother being Sarapius of Oxyrinkus, to
Tinetorus, daughter of Thonus son of Thonus, her mother being
Zoilus of the same city with her guardian Demetrius son of Horion
and Arsenault of the same city. Greeting all that, just for the
greeting. So this is like the title.
This is like Daenerys title stuff right here, right?
Anyway, it continues here. I acknowledge the receipt from
you through Heliadoris and his associate overseers of the bank
at the Serapium near the city of Oxarinkus, through which
Epimachus made the promise of payment of 400 drachma, an
imperial coin for wages, oil, clothes and all other expenses.
During the two years in which my slave Serapius nursed your
daughter Helena, known as her father's child, who when you
took her back and had been weaned and had received every
attention and I knowledge that I neither have nor shall have any
complaint or charge to make against you either in connection
with this transaction or any other matter whatever up to the
present time. This receipt is valid.
Amazing, right? Like this.
The context here is very similar to what receipts are nowadays.
It's a little more like contractual and it's and it's
vibe, you know, it's a little more thorough and explaining,
especially the introduction of all the people there.
Jeez, But you've got a single person, a slave rented out to be
a wet nurse to this other person.
And the receipt, look at it, it's very specific, right?
So anyway, the other point here I wanted to make is that they
mentioned the city Oxarinkus twice.
Oxarinkus is a city in Egypt where it has a there's thousands
of years of the same trash dump being used.
And because the climate in this part of Egypt is so very
specific, the trash doesn't breakdown.
It's like preserved. It's so dry.
There's like very little bacteria.
So modern technology and what I mean modern, I mean like the
last like 10 to 12 years they've made great.
Advancements. In studying that trash dump,
because they find like little tiny fragments, papyrus and
vellum, and like other types of ancient paper.
And they have been painstakingly putting all that together,
piercing it together like little puzzles, like putting together a
trash dump. And it and because of the modern
technology they have with, they can read very faint writing with
like laser technology and all. It's really fancy and and
interesting. And that's they're slowly like,
they found a whole play by Aristophanes in this trash dump
that no one even knew existed. A whole play.
So there's some amazing things coming out of this trash dump.
Most of them are things like this receipts.
But as Sam Tarly tells John, you can tell a lot by receipts.
You learn what they ate, learn what kind of what things cost,
learn certain things about how their society works.
So anyway, back to Westeros in either 294 or 295, that's when
Edrick went to be Lord Barrick's page and when Illyria was
betrothed to Lord Barrick. So those things happened
together. Barrick's pretty young too, he
was 1718 or 19, whereas Edrick, as I said, was 7.
So this is the same age Bran is at the start of the book. 7 egg
when? He becomes Squire to dunk.
Is 8 or 9. So fostering is common but not
always done and less so with the first born.
The first born is more likely to stay home and and learn directly
what's going on in their home castle.
Obviously there's exception to that.
Ned and Brandon were fostered, Benjen wasn't, but none of Ned's
kids were. Ned went to the Erie himself at
8 and maybe he didn't have any of his kids fostered elsewhere
because he saw all the entangling problems that caused.
So thinking of the name Ned, calling him that nickname, it's
pretty poignant, isn't it? It's pretty curious.
It certainly gets Aria's brain moving.
It gets her thinking of her father, which most of us would
have too, even if she hadn't thought of him in that moment.
But it's curious, right? A big open question is what do
the Danes think of Eddard and the Starks in general?
Well, obviously Eddrick didn't have a problem with Aria and
she, he didn't mention anything about the Danes and the Starks
having a problem with each other.
But ask yourself this, would the Danes nickname the heir to
Starfall Ned if they had a problem with Ned Stark, saw him
as controversial, or straight up hated him?
That does not add up at all. They even if they were like
ashamed of their association with him.
This implies something positive, not only something neutral or
not negative, it implies a positive association with Ned
Stark. Like, you would not want to hear
that name at all if you didn't like that man, or if that man
was the reason that you know one of your your sister or your
daughter. Whoever is mad at Ned Stark for
a chardae jumping off of the Pale Stone tower.
Assuming that's connected at all.
Either way, Ned Stark is definitely responsible for the
death of Arthur Dayne. So somehow.
They. Forgive him for that or
understand it's not crazy, but it is very notable as we'll.
See throughout this episode. Edrick isn't that likely.
To. Know much of what happened at
the Tower of Joy or about our Ashar Arthur.
Since he wasn't alive when they died, he wasn't around when
their secrets were happening, and I would can't imagine his
father would want to tell him those things, especially at the
age he was at. He was seven years old when he
was sent off, So what secrets, family secrets, would have
learned by that point? He may have, we might have a Ned
Stark and John situation where Ned eventually planned to tell
John some things or had that thought when he's under in the
black cells, like if I could just speak with John one more
time, that might have been on tap for Edrick had his father
lived long. He's like, well, when you're
older, I'll tell you some of these family secrets, but that
never that never happened. He never learned those family
secrets, or at least not any of them.
However, it's still notable what he's been told.
Whatever stories he tells, he says well, as John's knows
mother. He didn't suss that out himself.
Illyria told him that. Illyria doesn't necessarily know
the truth either. Either Illyria is helping
maintain the subterfuge by passing the lie on to Edrick,
who will believe it uncritically, or she's been
misled as well. She's repeating a lie, not
knowing it's a lie. So it's all very interesting.
But yeah, we're not sure. I'm very sure Edrick doesn't
really know the truth, and he's not.
He wasn't just like, ha ha. I'm going to trick Arya here by
bringing his wheel. Yeah, he's not.
That's extremely unlikely. So.
So unlikely that I wouldn't even entertain it.
But what he knows isn't, hasn't been fully spoken.
And even if he knows things that aren't true, those would be
interesting because that would mean they lied to him about
that. He was like, well, what lie did
they need to tell? Or the fact that they needed to
lie at all is telling. Let's go to Black Haven.
The choice. To send Edrick to page for
Barrick and be seen as a strengthening of the connection
between their houses. And they have a lot.
I mean, whether it was the intent or not, he effectively
became Edrick's father figure. As we said, Barrick was lured
from a young age too. We don't know how young, but he
is lured when he's gets Edrick as his page.
He himself is maybe only 17. So it's entirely possible he's
been lured for several years. In fact, that might be something
they have very much in common, both of them becoming Lord at a
very young age. And this just kicks off a whole
host of things they have in common and just personality wise
and and vibes and the implication of their closeness
and the relationship that developed between them.
A relationship that has to become a little.
Weird after. Peric is dead so, but we'll get
to that. Yeah, Lord Dane almost certainly
died while Edrick was at Black Haven rather than during the
events of A Song of Ice and Fire, because we probably would
have been told that Edrick would have maybe mentioned that his
father died recently or something like that.
We don't know the circumstances of Lord Dane's death, but we do
learn from the World of Ice and Fire app that it was a untimely
death. So it wasn't like he was sick
for a while and he was, people thought, you know, maybe saw it
coming. Now, this was this kind of a,
oh, you know, an accident maybe. It's certainly unusual that Ned
Dane, after his father died, didn't go back to Starfall to
just take up his lordship. He stayed with Berrick.
And think about what he stayed with Berrick through.
Like this is a kid. That.
Was becoming an outlaw. That was haunted.
That was sleeping in dirt, sleeping in caves.
He could have gone back to Starfall any time he wanted and
no one could have gained said he's like, yeah, I'm the Lord of
Starfall, see you guys later. But he did not do that, not for
a long time, not till Barrick died.
More on that later. There are examples of people who
stay like Robert Brathy. Robert Brathian stayed a Esquire
or a ward of John Aaron even after his parents died at Ship
Breaker Bay. Bringing home patch face.
It is his choice. As I said, but.
He is underage, so part of the factor here might be that if
Edrick goes back to Starfall, he still has to.
A Regent is still going to be ruling in his place, so maybe
he'd still rather, you know, stay out in the world and learn
experience that way rather than just go home and sit there while
someone else rules in his name. And if he and if?
He sees Barrick as his. Father figure, which I'm very
keen on believing. That's my head cannon.
Then he would want to stay. He's a loyal.
Devoted. Kid, he likes Berrick, he wants
to keep learning from him. Berrick has treated him well.
He's, you know, fond of him, they're fond of each other,
etcetera. And if the betrothal was
political, Nina points out, perhaps motivated by divided
loyalties during Robert Rebellion.
Remember, the Dornish were on the Targaryen side for the most
part. So Edrick at Blackhaven, he
could be like a bit of a hostage against the good behavior of the
Danes. On the other hand, what Danes
are going to do anything other than Dark Star, you know, and
maybe that. But of course, when this was
arranged, Edrick's father was still alive.
So maybe they were trying to make sure he was, you know,
behaving. On the other hand, there's no
indication this marriage was arranged by somebody else.
It seems like they they pulled it off on their own.
Maybe anyway, Barrick would have helped Edrick deal with the loss
of his father. He might, as we said, have very
similar experience. Like, yeah, I lost my father at
a young age, too. That's something we can bond
over, something I've experienced.
You can. You can trust in me on this, you
know you, I've been through it, etcetera.
He may have even been Berrick. 'S father may have.
Even died younger than Hedrick's did so and.
Berrick was. Upstanding still is, or was
until his death. He his whole life was upstanding
and honorable and all that so and he had that reputation.
Ned Stark picked him to lead the expedition against Gregor.
That that wasn't random. Ned knew who Banner Dondarian
was. He already, even he was only a
teenager. He already had a reputation of
well, maybe he was 20 by then. He already had a reputation.
Actually, yes, he was 22. Yeah, Barrick was 22 when the
mission was sent. But either way, that's pretty
young. But I already had that
reputation. Chosen to lead by Ned Stark,
chosen to marry Illyria. Dane and the Danes are steeped
in honor. Then Edrick is a page as well.
So Barrick kudos there. Clearly he earned himself some
points to have gotten all this, to have been trusted with all
this. So Lord Dane probably thought
very well of Lord Barrick unless they were forced into this
marriage. It seems like he was a good
judge of character because yeah, Lord Barrack is a good guy.
Even in death. Lord Barrack was more of a
knight than almost everyone else, You know, very few
characters were more nightly than Lord Barrack, even as a
dead guy at some point in this era when he was maybe when he
became a Squire, which is around age 10, he won the rings event
in a Squires tournament, which shows he's good at holding a
Lance steady, which may have implications later.
I think George, as we've said, George gave little hints that
he's got some martial skills in training there.
Maybe he's maybe the prowess is just around the corner.
Barrick is Edrick Dane's main influence and Barrick is one of
the best examples of knighthood we have of someone who actually
follows the vows. Like I said, he's he's right up
there. So think about the effect I
would have. This guy is now your father
figure and this is how he behaves.
And maybe you've already been predisposed to act that way.
This is how you've been raised. You're you're, you're come from
the same family Arthur Dayne came from.
You know, you've already got a distinct legendary figure to
live up to. That is your uncle, right?
Even if you didn't meet him, the dude was insanely famous.
And people tend to, you know, young people tend to emulate the
people around them are the people that are spoken of the
most highly. And, well, this is certainly
played out that way, at least at this point.
King's Landing. So Barrick decided, Hey, young
Squire Edrick, the Hand is having a tournament.
Actually, it was Robert, but we know how that went.
It was in Ned's name, but Ned actually didn't want anything to
do with it. So that was a big deal.
A lot of people came from all over.
And it's interesting not just how this brought the characters
into town. That ended up becoming Ned's
expedition. They became the Brotherhood
Without Banners, right? So this was just supposed to be
a trip to go to a tournament, but it really took a turn,
several turns really. Edrick would have been very
busy. Barrick was a competitor.
He was in the joust and the melee.
So he would be, you know, helping him with his weapons and
his armor and all that. Lots to do Edrick, actually.
Sees. Lord Eddard, but it's too shy to
approach him. Let tracks.
He's notably shy. He doesn't know what to say.
He doesn't know what to bring up.
It's definitely too bad. What would they have said to
each other? Right?
Like, what would Ned say to Edrick?
Would he be feel a little awkward?
He'd be like, it might have been awkward.
It might have been stiff, like, hello.
Pleased to meet you. See you later.
I got to go. You know, I Yeah.
So I kind of get why Edrick was shy about it, given the, the
family secrets and the all the stuff that goes on between.
Even though Edrick doesn't have the full picture, it's still a
little like, yeah, is he going to be happy to see me or not?
I think one of the. Reasons George passed.
On this too, is that Ned Stark avoids thinking about the Tower
of Joy and his family as much as possible.
It's like it's like blocked off by trauma.
So having Ned Dane approach him would he would kind of have to
think about some of those things.
He would have to think about Ashara.
And he he doesn't want to. George didn't want to go that
way. He wanted Ned.
He wanted to hide that stuff and keep it for later.
Consider that when Jamie assaulted him in the streets and
the circumstances played out so much like the Tower of Joy, and
then, you know, he's holding Jory's body.
It's 7 versus 3 in terms of the number seven die versus 3 die.
And the the some of the language that's used, he wakes up
dreaming about the Tower of Joy right after that.
And so this is a perfect example of something similar triggers
his memories. This isn't something similar.
A Dane approaching him, you know, with his same nickname is
yeah, I really don't know what Ned would have done there.
He also observes, Sir Loris giving Santa a red rose.
He asked if Ari was there. He's like, yeah, I saw this.
I saw Loris give your sister a rose.
This is kind of funny because Loris doesn't even remember
giving Santa the red rose. And Santa, of course, remembered
it. Like it was the most important
thing that ever happened in her life at the time.
Obviously she's moved past that. But in the moment, yeah, she had
the most gigantic crush on him that anyone's ever had on
anyone, I don't think. This is.
Necessarily like a set up, like maybe Edrick was noticing Sansa
because it's like foreshadowing. Probably not, but it's possible
They're about the same age and, you know, he's a good kid.
He's noble born and all that. You know, maybe it was an idea
that George is crap. Maybe originally George is going
to set up a Sansa Edrick thing, but it could be like a red rose
herring. Yeah, but maybe it's still,
maybe it's still in. More on that later.
I want to at the end of the episode, we're going to go
through a lot of the possible characters Edra could interact
with, mostly Stark's. And we'll we'll we'll try to
flesh a little bit of that out. So again, Illyria may have been
too young to marry Barack at the time, but notably more years
have passed. Like four or five more years
have passed since that betrothal and they still didn't get
married. Which starts to make.
Me think Nina. Might have had the right of it
because it's how young could she be?
I mean, was she? 11 and then four.
Years go by and she's still not quite 16 and now Barrick is
dead, so it's it's moot. But yeah, like the age, the
timing is a little tricky here. Not tricky, but telling I guess.
We have been. Redoing some parts of our
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Couple of miscellaneous things about this episode.
Other than Edric Storm, there's only one other Edric we know of
at all, and that's Edric Stark. Who?
Was. The grandson of Alaric Stark,
Alex. The real Stanisi Stark who met
Alison and Jairus so his sons died and Edric inherited.
At 170. Two or in 72 AC.
There's also an Edrick Guild navigator in Dune.
I know George is red Dune. He wasn't a huge fan of Dune,
but he might have noted that name.
Edrick is not in the first book, but he appears in the second
book. And well, I won't say how many
books he's in because that would be a spoiler.
There's also a. Disney show.
Owl House. Never heard of it until looking
it up just before this episode and there's two friends of
Cosplay Owl House. Including, notably, Becca
Starshark. Oh cool.
I guess I just didn't click because I.
Don't, I didn't have any memory for it.
So 2 characters named Emira and Edric Blight are in that they're
twins. And yeah, so that's another
Edrick I know of. Do we think there's a connection
slash inspiration to Elrich of Melnabone?
Possibly. He, George, has absolutely read
that series and he mentioned Eldrich Shadow Chaser is a
character name that he made-up for one of the Azora High
personas in the World of Ice and Fire.
So Eldrich does sound like a mash up of Edrich and Elrich.
So yeah. And given that we know George
has read Elrich of Meldabone, it seems likely.
I don't know the character very well, so I don't know if there's
like similarities between the characters or not.
I kind of doubt it, but the name, yeah.
Yeah, I think so. Kingsman.
When Barrack was chosen to lead the contingent against Sir
Gregor, it probably meant the first action Edrick ever saw,
and it was horrible. They rode under the King's
banner, empowered by the King's hand to bring justice to an
outlaw. They'd all you know, we're out
there doing good work, they thought.
And they were ambushed in what became known afterwards as the
Battle at the Mummers Ford. Let's consider that battle
through Edrick's point of view. It began as they were.
Crossing. A river, that is a time when an
army of any size, big or small, and this was 120 men, so not
that big, but certainly as I said.
In any case. Crossing a river makes you
vulnerable. Your, your horses are, you know,
in water you can't maneuver very well.
You're not in a formation. So if somebody attacks you in
that moment, it's bad. And that is what happened.
So they waited for them. They attacked them at the
perfect right moment, and they were probably a completely
unprepared. They had no idea anyone was
waiting for them. They had no reason to suspect
it. And now?
Remember what was. Supposed to happen.
The ambushers were supposed to capture Ned Stark.
That was the goal. They were going to capture Ned
Stark and then swap him for Tyrion.
And that would be the end of the war.
Of course Jamie got involved. Ned's leg was broken, so Ned
wasn't there. Tywin was smart enough to
realize that Ned would lead that expedition himself.
That's because he he's, he had a read on Ned's personality.
And he was right. Ned would have led that
expedition had he not broken his leg.
But of course, Tywin didn't know that Ned broke his leg.
So they would have known right away or probably realized right
away that Ned Stark wasn't in that group because there would
be no Stark banner. Well, or if there was a Stark
banner, it was attached to the King's banner and there was no
Stark accoutrement. There was no like Lord decked
out like the Stark high Lord. No one that looked like
Niagstark was there. And again, it's not that large
of a group. So no, the attack came from
three sides. They have their back is to the
river and it's like they're enclosed.
The attack comes from the front and from both sides.
So there's the only way to run was to go through the enemy.
You can't really cross back over because it's too slow and
they'll just pick you off while you're slowly slogging your way
across the river. So my guess is that Gregor went
right for Barrick. Like Barrick was taken out of
the fight almost immediately. He's the only Lord on the field,
he's the leader. So if Gregor takes him out that
he knows that's going to cause chaos to their ranks.
They don't have anyone to shout orders.
Now we know Edrick pulled Barrick out of the river, so
Gregor must have time discharged very well.
Barrick was knocked into the river.
He must have been still very close to the shoreline.
And perhaps Barrick, being the kind of guy he is, put himself
in harm's way, got in front of other people.
You know, I'm the leader. I got to take the brunt.
Especially if Ned himself was in danger.
He would want to protect his his young Squire that he has a very
strong connection to. Either way, Ned would have been
right there when it happened, most likely.
Squire is almost certainly riding alongside his master.
So it would have been really quite a few seconds of extreme
tension and danger there when Barrack is like, uh oh, we're
screwed. But we still got to do our best.
And he wanted to protect his men and save as many as possible.
But of course he couldn't do anything.
He's taken out of the fight almost immediately.
We're told that he stood over. Greg.
Over barrack's body after pulling it out of the water and
just kind of waited there and no one paid any attention to him.
All the the enemies were too busy dealing with men who are
actually standing and wielding weapons rather than a dude on
the ground with a foot of Lance sticking out of his chest and
some boy right now that said that boy is worth a lot of money
for a ransom that you could get a fat ransom for the Lord of
Starfall. But they didn't know he was the
Lord they they would have seen you know the the kit and the the
sigil, but that doesn't mean he's a Lord.
They don't suspect a 12 year old's a Lord and they're too
busy killing people who were trying to kill them.
So Gregor would have been the. Largest.
Man he's ever seen except before or after.
Except that he sees Gregor again later, so he gets a repeat.
Now he's standing over Barrick, thinking he's almost certainly
dead, even though he had no idea Thoris could bring him back.
Of course, neither did Thoros, so he's guarding a body like
Barrick is almost certainly dead, but he wasn't actually
dead yet. The wound looked really bad, but
Barrick hadn't actually passed yet.
Edrick didn't Wade. Into the.
Battle. He dismounted, pulled Barrick
out of the water and then stood over him.
The battle probably surged. Past.
Them like the some of the men were trying to breakthrough and
the others are, like I said, concerned with people who are
actually fighting. Very chaotic, but we actually
get a. Accounting of the battle from
Harwin. Of all people.
And he tells Aria this quote. We had lions on.
Every. Side and I thought I was doomed
with the rest, but Allen shouted commands and restored order to
our ranks, and those still a horse rallied around Thoros and
cut our way free. 6 score we'd been that morning.
By dark, no more than two score were left and Lord Barrack was
gravely wounded 120. Down to 40.
Hedrick amongst the 40, the first of many.
Times that he. Proves to be a survivor.
Sure he's less of a target but still, he's in danger a lot of
times and comes through unscathed.
So Hedrick would have thrown Barrick on the back of his own
horse and and either led his horse or Red ridden off a brick
slung over the back of his. And we know that he was helped
by a guy named Green Gergen, a man who was now probably dead.
But either way, it was another example of something that would
take some strength and certainly bravery.
So he helps his mortally wounded Lord, with the help of this
Green Gergen guy onto his horse. And they ride through this
melee. They ride through this this
sick, you know, 40 of them cutting their way through barely
and getting away. And you got to think that Ned
Dane, probably in the center of that formation, he's not one of
the big warriors, They would have him to be protected because
they're also trying to protect Lord Barrick.
Now, Green Gerg, Green Gergan is the name here.
But there's a green Gerg who was in a Song of Ice and Fire forum
member from the very early days. And George, well, clearly gave
them a nod here. There's more of a story to this,
George. In 1999, George auctioned 4
unreleased chapters of A Storm of Swords on eBay.
This was for charity I believe. Green Gerg and 41 others from
the westeros.org forums including Elio and Linda I
believe pooled their money to win that auction.
Well done y'all. The four chapters were the
prologue, the Chet prologue right?
Tyrion 1, Sansa 1 which is when she meets the Queen of Thorns
and Marjorie. And then a last minute addition
because it was supposed to be 3 but then George offered a fourth
one and let them pick and they I don't know what the choices were
but they picked John 1 which is when he meets Tormund and Mance.
So that's pretty cool. He also gave them a.
Pay a random. Page which was the when Sam
sings the lullaby of the seven to Gillies babe because green
Gerg also had a newborn around that time and green Gerg and
their partner named their newborn child RR, not RR, but
their initials are RR so and George was was made aware of
that so he gave them this an honor now.
Edrick, given that he's Dornish and a.
Lord would have probably had one of the best horses on the field
there. He might have even had like a
Sandsteed because the Dornish and particularly have great
horses, but he probably doesn't have that horse anymore.
You know, they've been through so much.
But that might have been part of why he was able to escape having
one of the best horses now as well.
Edrick would have been one of the best armored on the field.
He's a a Lord and young, so protection would be important
for him and he can afford his family, can afford some of the
best. Despite these advantages, you
got to give him a ton of credit for his bravery, for his
initiative, for competence, for just making it out of there.
Like a lot of Squires would have just been killed.
You got to give Barrack some credit for teaching him that
way. Like Barrack taught him well,
he's a talented kid that was raised right, but no one could
have taught him or educated him about what was going to come
next. Squire to the.
Undead. Now is unique as Edrick may be,
this might be the most unique thing about him.
There is no one else that has been a Squire to a dead person
that we know of. This is how it starts.
Thoros prayed as he does and the result was startling.
Quote that first. Time.
His lordship had a hole right through him and blood in his
mouth. I knew there was no hope, so
when his poor torn chest stopped moving, I gave him the good
God's own kiss to send him on his way.
I filled my mouth with fire and breathed the flames inside him
down his throat to lungs and heart and soul.
The last kiss it is called, and many a time I saw the old
priests bestow it on the Lord's servants as they died.
I had given it a time or two myself, as all priests must, but
never before had I felt a dead man shudder as the fire filled
him, nor seen his eyes come open.
Given Edrick. Seems to stick by Barrick's side
no matter what. I believe he was likely standing
right there when this happened. So he would have shared the
astonishment with Thoros and Thoros be like, yeah, I'm
astonished too, man. Like I didn't think this was
going to happen either. And Barrick too, like Barrick
was like, wait, I'm a lot wait, what's going on here?
What? So we have Thoros's perspective
here, but Edrick's perspective must be really something.
We just haven't heard him talk about it.
It's still the implications are are extreme.
Like it must have been almost literally unbelievable if he
wasn't seeing it. It would be like what?
Like Edrick probably had never seen magic in his life.
Like most of these characters never seen magic in their life
because we're not in a high magic era right now.
It'd been a while even. Like I said, even Thoros was
completely stunned by, and Thoros being so stunned by it
would increase how stunned everyone else is by it.
I was like, wait, you did that by accident?
You just resurrected somebody by accident.
That's crazy. And.
Some people like. Lem, they're in denial.
They think Thoros is just a great healer.
I doubt that's the case with Ned.
I mean, a foot of Lance in his chest, I mean, he's that's a
foot. Like if you had a foot of Lance
in my chest, that would pop out the other side.
Like that's all the way through. So I don't think.
Edrick is like Lem. That he's in denial about it.
But he's been up much, much closer to Barrick.
He's seen these wounds as he's helping him put his armor on.
You can't fail to see these gnarly, unlivable.
No one could be alive with these wounds.
Sure, Edrick is really young. Maybe he could be in denial in a
way that only children can. I just tend to doubt it, though
he seems more mature than that. He seems, you know, he's, he's
around Thoros. Barrick would talk to him about
it. He's Barrick's Squire.
He's his. Mentor.
They're tight, so I don't think Barrick would just not talk
about it. But like, you know, our can we
talk about the fact that you're dead?
Nah, Nah, I don't want to talk about that.
I, I imagine. Well, my faithful Squire, you
might have some questions. I do too hard to imagine.
Exactly how that conversation? Would go, but it's implied that
he and Thoros have had conversations and Ned would have
been there for a lot of those and Ned would have had
conversations with Barrack too about all this and it just.
I mean, this is he. He also would be.
Very aware of the fact that Barrack doesn't eat, drink or
need sleep. There's just so many clues that
this is not normal, This is something else.
So people like Lem, that level of denial is already difficult
to reach. But Lem is not up close to
Barrick, to his body, to his person, to his secrets like
Edrick is. Yeah.
So I I. Don't know that.
I don't know that Ned would want to broach the subject 'cause
he's a little shy, but he would be so curious and, and be
bewildered. And I think Barrick, being a
good mentor, would, would talk to him about it, you know, level
with him. Like, yeah, I don't really know
what's happening either. And.
But think of. The The lesson here, like
Barracks, still continues to lead his group with honor and
dignity and with sacrifice, with willingness to die for others.
What a. Inspiration that must.
Be beyond his words, the words that we don't hear him speak,
that we know must have been spoken, just his actions, right.
He he's willing to die for commoners like he gives himself
to Amory Lorch to be hanged so that Lorch won't hang couple of
beekeepers. He hangs them all, as we.
If you recall, that would be one of the few times Edrick wasn't
at his side during one of his deaths because he just
surrendered. Like Ned wouldn't have
surrendered with him. No, there'll be no need for
that. But for the rest of Barrick's
deaths, Ned was probably in the battle with him, at least some
of them. So Edrick's obligation as a
Squire to this man is it's changing.
In a way that he has no. Basis for comparison.
Barrick's memories are compromised more so with each
death. At one point he says he can't
even remember what his betrothed looks like, and he doesn't even
name her by say her by name. I bet he doesn't remember her
name either, even though it's his squire's aunt.
He might remember that she's a. Dane.
But he might not even remember that, which is like, whoa,
that's. That's a lot of lost memories.
So day-to-day, this would be extremely strange, not something
to get used to easily. Sure, there's distractions like
they're hungry, they're they're in danger constantly, they're
trying to save people, so they've got a purpose.
But just the this dead man who keeps standing back up, walking
around, getting more more himself than ever or less
himself than ever, more intent, more purposeful and less of
anything else. So yeah, I, I.
Wonder. Would.
Someone like Edrick notice. Even more subtle changes in him
like well, this is he every morning he used to say this or
he used to always pray at this time of day and well, his
routines have changed because he's dead or you know, only.
Edrick would be keen. On these things, someone that's
just attending his every. Need you know that's.
What a Squire is supposed to do, you're supposed to be paying
attention to. What the knight needs is what
the Lord needs. And, well, these needs are
peculiar. And the lack of certain needs is
also peculiar. Like, wait, yeah, he doesn't
need food or drink. That's normally what I would be
doing is getting my Lord ready something to eat.
And he doesn't do that. Now we do have another
possibility. As I mentioned earlier, Jon Snow
could be an undead person with the Squire because he has a
Squire Satin, right? And he might be a fire white
too. So Satin will be the second
person to Squire for a fire White.
And at the end of the episode, like I I teased earlier, we'll
talk a little more about Edrick and Jon Snow.
And with the possibility of them meeting, Yeah, isn't that crazy
to think about it? He's like, hey, I've I've
squired for a fire white before. I know things.
Marjo, 32, says wait. Is he going to be John Squire
next? He's the only one with a resume
to fit. Lol yeah well it's possible.
I don't know about his Squire, but maybe.
Fighting side by. Side or they got they have
things to talk about, as we'll see.
OK to outlaws the next. Section here.
Let us be very clear about it, Edrick Dane.
Again, I said this earlier, but I want to reiterate it here,
because this is the point at which you would expect that he
would be very tempted, let alone being.
Within his rights. Even before Barrack's first
death, he could have left. She could be like Ned Stark,
picks Gregor, picks Barrack to go after Gregor, Ned Dane could
go. That's it.
I'm out. I don't need to be a part of
that. I am Lord of Starfall.
Why am I here? But again, even after Barack is
killed repeatedly, he stays. He goes through all this pain
and suffering and exposure and possibly getting hanged,
possibly getting captured by the Brave Companions or something
awful like that. I mean, danger, extreme danger,
and he could have just left. That is extremely telling.
He could go eat nice food and sleep in a Lord's bed and be
completely out of harm's way. But he stayed no.
One else in that group, No. Other Brotherhood without Banner
can say that most of them didn't have another place to go.
If they were to leave, they would be trying to sneak off and
pretend no one ever knew they were in the Brotherhood without
Banners. But they'd still be, you know, a
poor person with no group or organization to be a part of.
They certainly can't just go to their own castle, yeah?
This is extreme. Dedicated this is top tier
Squire behavior. This is, I mean, this is some
egg Podrick type. So he's up there with those
guys. Yeah, Podrick who are the best
Squires in all of history. Well, Edrick belongs in that
group and this had to have. A huge impact on.
Him the fact that he stayed and kept experiencing these things
and that he had this dedication and saw it through and that has
had to make the rest of the brotherhood respect him.
They know who he is too. They know he could leave.
They know he could go back home at any any point, but he chose
to stay with him. That had to earn some big points
with them. And that's why when he did
eventually leave, some of them went with him, which we'll get
to in in due time here. So Edrick has had one of the
very few mentors in all of the Song of Ice and Fire who
actually behaves as a knight should, which gives him a decent
chance or gives us the expectation that he will behave
that way too when he's given the chance.
He's seen what devotion to. A just.
Cause means. In some ways this makes.
Him. A potential foil for Arthur
Dayne, a man who went down fighting for his honor and duty
rather than doing the right thing, The humane thing, right.
Arthur Dayne stuck with Aries, you know, he's a Kingsguard.
So it's a little different than Edrick who wasn't not not sworn
duty like that. But still Arthur is is
uncompromising in that way. Whereas and this wasn't a golden
age, right he could have he didn't he wasn't tested until
Aries and we saw what happened there.
But they were both King's men who became outlaws because of a
regime, regime change. Like they both went out into the
world to do their jobs. And while they were in the field
doing their jobs, a new king took over and they became
outlaws. Like that's a very similar thing
that Edrick and Arthur both went through.
And I think Edrick knows that. Like he has at least some
knowledge that he knows. He knows Arthur died at the
tower Joy and he knows Arthur died at the tower Joy after
Robert had won the war. So it's not.
Those aren't. Secrets.
So Edrick. Has a chance to be.
Kind of the opposite. Now, later in the episode, I'm
going to talk about similarities between Edrick and Arthur.
Here, we're talking about a difference.
This is a chance for Edrick, given what he's learned and what
he's been through, to be a compromising day.
And the opposite, someone that that goes with.
What's? Right over with, over his own
honor. Someone like Corin Halfan who
says, yeah, honor is important, but more important is the realm.
Ned Stark would agree. Ned Stark put his honor very
highly, but he was, he threw his honor away in a split second
when his daughter's life was in the was in the balance.
And that's what Barrick does too.
Barrick is like, yeah, honor's important, but more important is
justice. More important is is defending
the weak. These other nightly virtues are
more important than my personal honor, right?
And I think most of us would agree with that, Edrick.
Has been taught he's. He's learned in that school,
he's been through the school of what's right versus.
What's? Just he's went out to give
justice. And became an.
Outlaw, like, that's crazy, that's not fair.
So he's been on the the short end of that stick.
Thus has a very keen understanding of just because
you're an outlaw doesn't mean you're not a good person.
Just because you're a King's man doesn't mean you are a good
person. There are things more important
than duty and honor. One of those things is justice.
One of those things is humanity, right or another.
One of those things is humanity. So it's better when what's good
and what's law are in alignment, but it is not always true.
The laws can be unjust, the laws can be straight up evil.
And for a while the laws were good right?
The Kingsguard defending their king.
That usually works out pretty well until you have a really
awful king like Aries who's who's using.
His Kingsguard to. As an arm of his evil right for.
His his atrocities. So while Edrick is living in a
much different time than Arthur Arthur, the end of Arthur's life
was when things got quote UN quote interesting.
But before that he had, he hadn't fought in many wars.
I mean, he fought the Kingswood Brotherhood, but he didn't fight
in like pitched battles. Even so, you want to live in a
golden age? You want to live in the era
before Aries went crazy, that would be a good time to have
lived in Westeros. But those don't make the most
interesting stories, do they? When if everything is great,
there's no conflict at all, we have another.
Parallel source between. Arthur and Edrick, though in
some ways it is more of a parallel between Arthur and
Barrick, with Edrick observing Lord Barrick in the case of the
Kingswood Brotherhood. Let's talk about that.
Let's take note of what Jamie recalls regarding Sir Arthur's
strategy in this case. Quote.
If you want their help. You need to make them love you.
That was how Arthur Dayne did it when we rode against the
Kingswood Brotherhood. He paid the small folk for the
food we ate, brought their grievances to King Ares,
expanded the grazing lands around their villages, even won
them the right to fell a certain number of trees each year and
take a few of the King's deer during the autumn.
The forest folk had looked to Toyne to defend them, but Sir
Arthur did more for them than the Brotherhood could ever hope
to do and won them to our side. After that, the rest was easy.
That's really. Similar to what barrack?
Did for the common folk of the Riverlands during the outbreak
of the war, 5 Kings, isn't it? I mean, he couldn't get them new
rights 'cause they're in the midst of war and he's an outlaw.
But he tried to do the same things that these deeds Arthur
was doing. He tried to, he won.
He'd successfully won them over that part he did, and he
certainly tried to give them food and paid them in other ways
when he couldn't and gave his life for them.
So this is very similar he and. Most importantly, he.
Gave them justice. And Arthur in part did that as
well. So and and he was lauded for it.
They both gave help above and beyond the common, what the
common folk would normally come to expect from the highborn.
And in fact, they were basically champions.
So it was like, yeah, these guys were champions for us.
So Arthur Dayne was a champion for us, Lord Barrack's a
champion for them. You know, 15 years later, 20
years later, and Nedane is right there to see it.
He knows what his, he knows what Arthur did.
He probably knows about the Kingswood Brotherhood.
He's told those stories. Those aren't secrets.
That's not some mystery. So he's and he's living it out
here. So this is twice he, he's got
the stories of Arthur and his own first hand experience with
Lord Barrack. That's got to sink in big time.
There's even a parallel to Jamie and Edrick here, right?
Both fighting in a campaign for or against outlaws at a very
young age as Squires, both heirs to their house at the time.
Obviously Jamie didn't ascend, but we all we know that story.
Both of them were Squires to someone very upstanding, someone
rare who has skill and adheres to nightly vows and common
decency. Both for the most part,
especially by this point. So Edrick, or rather Arthur and
Barrick similar in their leadership skills and Jamie and
Edrick similar in their Squire roles for that.
Obviously Jamie didn't stay a Squire for Arthur after this.
He was older and became a Kingsguard.
But yeah. Now.
One thing is backwards here. Or inverse, it's Barrick.
In Barrick's case, the outlaws are winning over the commoners,
where Arthur won the commoners away from the outlaws.
But we know that Barrick and Edrick aren't actually outlaws
by trade, whereas, you know, the Kingswood brotherhood was they
started off as outlaws. They they were never kings, men
who, you know, a usurpation changed who they were.
No, that's it. So that's a that's that's a good
point. Now one thing Arthur never.
Had to. Deal with that we know of is
truly awful brigands. The Kingswood Brotherhood were
robbers, thieves, kidnappers, but they're not like killers or
torturers that as far as we know they're they're not like the
Bloody Melmers or Gregor Clegane or Emerald Lorch.
I don't know Arthur ever had to deal with someone like that
though maybe the Smiling Knight. Arthur did kill the Smiling
Knight personally and he was said to be cruel and mad but
also chivalrous. So I don't know that that
doesn't. Exactly.
Tell us. In in detail there.
Here's our best direct example of the Brother Without Banners
fighting on behalf of the common folk at the Battle of the
Burning Sceptre quote. Thoros and Lord Barek were
everywhere, their swords swirling fire.
The red priest hacked at a hide shield until it flew to pieces
while his horse kicked the man in the face.
A Dothraki screamed and charged the Lightning Lord, and the
flaming sword leapt out to meet his Arak.
The blades kissed and spun and kissed again.
Then the Dothraki's hair was ablaze, and a moment later he
was dead. She spied Ned, too, fighting at
the Lightning Lord's side. Important.
To remember? Maybe not.
Important but a detail to remember here is that Dothraki
oiled her hair. That's probably why it caught
fire so easily and went up quickly.
It's this is this scene is almost it has a little bit of
humor to it, even though it's like pretty brutal, but the good
guys win with very few casualties.
So that's that's nice. But the humor is Arya thinking
that it's unfair that Ned gets to fight and she doesn't.
She's like, I want to be out there, but there you go, Ned
fighting. At the.
Lightning Lord's side, he gets charged by a Dothraki.
Ned's right there, right? So that he's in danger.
He's coming. But he came out just fine.
And Berrick and Berrick gets into the thick of things.
Berrick is the one putting himself in harm's way.
It's part of why he's getting killed.
Ned's got to be right there with him a lot of times, you know,
he, he Barrett doesn't have. A lot of concern.
For himself, but he probably does have concern for his
Squire. So now if we.
Think about this like. From the perspective of a foe,
if if. This knight and the.
Squire are coming at you is definitely.
The the bigger guy. With the flaming sword you're
more concerned about than the look.
The kid in pale purple that's shorter, you know, and not an
adult. So there is that two yeah, two
guy and it's and with Thoros right there too, it's actually 2
flaming sword guys to take all the catch all the eyes of
everybody. Hey, it takes the heat off of
Edrick. Hey, Speaking of heat.
The. Duel.
The trial by combat between Barrack and Sandor is actually
when we hear his name. When we did, when we did the
beginning of this episode and showed his first mention in
first words. It's this scene that these
things happen in. Aria talks to him right after
the the duel basically. What?
Was he thinking during the duel? I mean, like what's going
through Edrick's mind? He's probably like, well, if
Barrick, if my Lord dies here, no big deal, he'll come back.
I mean, he's seen Thoros bring him back several times.
In fact, this is the last time Barrick is brought back.
This death is Barrick's last his his last from being killed.
The next death Barrick has is his intentional death when he
gives his life force to Catlin. So Edrick by now has.
Seen. This is the sixth death he's
witnessed or been aware of. He probably wasn't witness to
Barrack getting hanged, but he certainly was aware of it so he
would know less. Is at stake.
Than than Aria did. Aria is like Oh my God Barrack
is dead. And of course Aria is more
concerned that Sander was getting off without punishment
than than Lord Barrack's life. But similar enough, right?
And this this. Is a big deal for.
Aria as an aside because she's like wait I am positive he's
guilty. Lord of Light.
Screw you. You know, like.
I'm positive. Like why?
How can you anyway so? After Barack loses, you know if
you. Remember what happened?
He's winning. Sandor's arm is on fire, and
then Sandor makes a wild downward slash as hard as he
can. Barack easily blocks it, but
Sandor's sword just crushes. Barack's sword breaks the blade
and hits Barrick right in the right where the shoulder and the
neck meet and Thoros goes Lem Jack or names some people and
goes help me carry Barrick away. Ned, you should come with this
is just a good evidence to me that Ned was there for all the
other resurrections too, because Thoros thinks nothing of letting
him bringing him back there. So then Aria gets mad.
She's like I can't believe this happened.
She grabs A dagger, tries to go at Sandor and Sandor's like, go
ahead, kill me. If you want me dead that bad, do
it. You know, he he he does the he
starts to do the thing that he will do later when he wants her
to kill him when he's in this massive pain, he's like he tries
to taunt her into doing it. This is a little milder version
of that, but he basically kind of insults her and and talks
about bad things he's done to get her to go ahead and go ahead
and do it then, and he's just in bad sorts there.
His a piece, his arm, like the flesh off his arm sloughs off.
The burns were that bad. And he faints when that happens.
And then of course, what happens is you go to hell, Hound, you go
to hell and Berrick appears behind, coming back out of the
cavern that they had taken him to.
And he's like he has. And.
It's the end of the chapter. And so Aria has seen the her
barrack rise again. But Ned has seen this several
times already. He presumably witnessed this
one. So after the duel.
She gets to speak with Ned A. Little bit Ned tries to be her
friend. That's when we had those earlier
conversations. He's being polite, he's a good
kid, and Gendry tries to mock them and Aria's a bit wary,
though Aria's like she doesn't. She has trouble trusting.
In general. Which is understandable, but
when Edric brings up the stuff about milk brothers and all
that, well, she's like, is he? Is he telling the truth?
So you know, and then then he says something else that upsets
her. Let's let's talk about that now.
This next section is called What does He Know?
Let's begin it with a quote this.
Conversation that I was just teasing.
Let's have it, Arya. Was lost who's Willa?
Jon Snow's mother. He.
Never told you. She served us for years and
years, since before I was born. John never knew.
His mother, not even her name. Arya gave Ned a wary look.
You know her, truly. Is he making mock of me?
If you lie, I'll punch your face.
Willa was. My wet nurse, he repeated
solemnly. I swear it on the.
Honor of my house. That's when she says.
You have a house and then it comes out who he really is.
And so this revelation is pretty big, right?
We we discussed some of the implications before.
Let's discuss a different angle of it.
Arya and Edrick's conversation has a lot in common with brands
conversation or story time, because it's this is a story
time kind of deal with Jojen and Mira regarding the tournament of
Harrah Hall. This is a smaller version of
that but it's very similar vibes happens in a similar ish point
in the story. In both cases we have someone
telling a Stark a story about the tourney of Harrenhal that
this Stark has not heard and both storytellers are surprised
that the Stark hasn't heard it. Jojen and Mir are surprised that
Bran hasn't heard the story of the Kranigman and Liana and all
that, just like Edrick is surprised that Aria doesn't know
about Willa being Jon Snow's mother.
Edrick is also surprised Aria had never heard about a shark
committing suicide of a broken heart.
Over Ned Stark, that is. Who who met her at the?
Tourney just as Jojen and Mira know what they know because
their father told them. Edrick was told that Ned and
Ashara were in love by his aunt Elyria, but this is when Aria.
Shuts down. She doesn't want to hear it.
She doesn't love the idea. She in fact hates the idea of
hearing that her father loved anyone else.
Like Nope, my father was my mother and that's it.
This is a very young person reaction to hearing the the
shattered illusion of your parents being perfect.
You know, and, and, but she's also wrong.
This isn't imperfect. It's not an.
Imperfection at all. Catlin and Ned were not married
when this happened. In fact, they weren't even
betrothed. Brandon was still alive.
So it was just something that Harwin explains later.
Harwin's like, look, Aria, there's no dishonor here.
You got to put this together. You got to consider the
timeline. He, he, he.
Points out he's like, yeah, the story of Ashara's suicide over
broken heart. Yeah, I've heard that story too.
But there was also grief over Arthur, that part Ned didn't
mention, Ned Dane didn't mention.
So Harwin adds the part that Ashara, that's part of what she
was going through was the was the grief over Arthur Dane.
Part of that may be that she may be the one that revealed the
location of the Tower of Joy. Eddard had to find that out
somehow and that would be potentially something that she
was very guilty over etcetera. Now Harwin also says, hey Aria,
don't mention any of this Willa Chardine stuff to your mother
because at the. Time they were going to.
River. And that was their plan to to
ransom her to the Starks or to Rob and Catlin.
And he's like, yeah, don't mention this Willa Chard.
The same does the Chardain stuff.
That's kind of. Funny now?
Thinking about Lord Eddard and why he hid these, this
information from Bran and Aria, etcetera.
This is just par for the course. Ned concealed all sorts of
details from his family about this.
He, he tried to protect them from the worst of it.
Catlin didn't know just how bad Brandon and Rickard's deaths
were. He just said, Oh yeah, a
beheading and another execution or strangling and a beheading or
whatever. He didn't, he didn't talk about
the fire, the, the slow burning, the slow strangulation, the, the
setup. He just declined to give them
those details. Not to keep it from them for
some, obviously for some nefarious purpose, but to keep,
spare their feelings, right? But now she's learning the other
way 'cause Edric Dane had no idea her father spared her those
feelings. As we know, Ned returned Dawn to
Starfall after the events of the Tower of Joy, after he and Hal
and Reid killed Arthur, and after the others were all
killed. But he had also gone before in
search, right? So this is supposedly the cover
story has to be that he's searching for the Tower of Joy.
They go to Starfall, and that's when Willa gets pregnant with
John. That's that has to be a because
it can't, it wouldn't really make sense for John for Ned to
go to Starfall, return Dawn and John to be born.
Then where's the nine months? Where's the gestation period for
this kid? Even people who don't know much
about babies would would catch that.
That's too big of a detail to leave out.
So the implication has to be that Willa got pregnant before
Ned returned at Starfall. Unless he stayed there for a
year, nine months, which that doesn't make.
That doesn't clock either. Why would he be there for that
long? So you know, we don't.
Edrick never indicates he knows exactly what happened with
Arthur Dayne, but it seems to be common knowledge.
So I I wouldn't worry about that.
But he he does mention the suicide of Ashara from the Pale
Stone Tower. But again, that.
He doesn't. Necessarily know the details.
He was not alive when that happened.
He she jumped from the tower. What was it 4?
3 or 4. Years before Edrick was born.
No, Barrick, No. Brotherhood a path for.
Ned Dane to become. Part of other plot lines he's
already not part of. The Brother Without Banners now
comes with Barrick's final death.
Let's go through that process when the Brotherhood.
Found Lady. Catlin in the river.
We know Barrick passed his life force to her despite protests
from Thoros and probably from others, probably Ned Dane as
well. Like no my Lord, no, my you've
been my mentor all this time. Don't go, don't leave us,
etcetera. Maybe there was some they may
have thought highly of him for doing it anyway, just the
respect is there. But you know, they didn't want
to lose him, but he made-up his mind.
He's a single minded. We're we're told that George
doesn't use the word revenant, but he does say that these.
Dead beings. They maintain their sense of
purpose and lose much else. So that sense of purpose, that
unfinished business from their life, becomes the focus.
And he also hints that Barrick is extremely focused on that
because of the multiple deaths now maybe so there might have
been there would have been a good buy.
I don't think Barrick would be like Zoop give the life force to
Catelyn and just collapses without saying something first.
You know, I'm sure he was like, you know, Ned to go out into the
world, be good. Remember everything I've taught
you. Probably pretty poignant.
Probably there's a lot of probably poignant off screen
moments between Ned Dane and Barrick that maybe Ned Dane will
tell us about later. We there's an opportunity for
him to relate some of those instances to us down the road.
And he he'd been. With Barrick since.
He was 7, so I mean it's like half.
Almost half. His life and again father figure
like to replace his real father because his father's dead now.
On the other hand, maybe Ned had gotten used to the idea that.
This was a. Short term thing that the
barrack could not possibly keep going like this, that as an
undead being his time would be limited.
I don't know what he conceived of though.
I don't know what he's like. Well, because he doesn't know
how any of this works, we don't know how any of this works.
Either way, he would. Have been.
Riding with an undead mentor for quite a while.
And so maybe he would have come to accept that yeah, this is
this is a short term thing, but this proves that he was devoted
to Barrick. He was a good Squire.
He was staying with Barrick as long as Barrick is walking.
Now, we can't say as long as he's alive because he clearly
stayed past that point. But as with Barrick's death, he
didn't have loyalty to the brother without Banner
specifically, and he maybe was uncomfortable following Catlin,
especially given her changing the way she sort of changed the
vibes of the Brotherhood. Instead of justice, they're
about revenge. And that's not honorable, that's
not noble, that's not how he was raised, that's not how he was
taught by barracks. So I think there's a lot of
reasons he would have left when Edrick goes back to Starfall.
I know we don't know that he's actually made it back yet.
Good chance he has. But.
Maybe not. Thinking back to Willa and
Catlin, would Edrick have a negative opinion of Catlin
because of what he might have learned from Willa?
Would Willa have said bad things about Catlin because I mean, she
lived up there in the North and maybe Catlin wasn't very kind to
her. It's an assumption that Catlin
was unkind to Willa. It's not a a a definite she, but
she was unkind to John. So if she thought now she
doesn't think. Well Catlin didn't think Willa
was John's mother. If she did then she would be
unkind to her for sure. But she was of the mind that
Ashara Dane is John's mother, Catlin is.
So she might just have not cared much about Willa at all, but
Willa would have said some things.
When? She got back.
She comes back from the North. They would have asked her some
questions, like, what was it like at Winterfell?
How did the Starks treat you? What about this and that and
this and the other? And are these secrets still
held? Because Will is in on it.
She was at the Tower of Joy. I love being like the only thing
colder. Than the North is Lady Stark.
That's crazy. Like you, Eddard Stark.
Is cold man, but Lady Stark is worse so.
And Eddrick isn't the only one, right?
A lot of Brotherhood members were like, yeah, we're not
following Stone hard. It's not 'cause she's a woman,
it's because she's a vindictive revenant.
That is a horror. You know, walking horror.
Some of them may have left. Eventually, where some of them
may have left right away, I suspect Ned left right away.
So the other words that. Maybe.
Went with him are N guy Swampy Meg Swampy Meg.
What a name John O Nuttin Merritt O Moontown.
Sorry, John O Nuttin is the. Best name I hope John O Nuttin
and Swampy. Meg are a are a couple.
Merit. O Moontown Wadi, the Miller, the
Mad Huntsman, and the mad Huntsman and Green Beard were
sent S to buy food using the gold they got from the hound.
They confiscated, they they they foraged from the hound as they
put it, and we we never hear them.
Again, we don't know. Whether they come back, whether
they were successful. They might have also decided to
part ways with the Brotherhood after the death of Barrick.
And maybe they are with Edrick now.
Like that's. A.
A reasonable option for some of them.
Is Edrick's going to go take up his lordship?
That's a great. Opportunity for these.
Outlaws to go to go straight so to speak because like yeah I'm
going to go with Edrick to be one of his men and I'll be an
employed Lords man. You know that'll my outlaw past
will be forgotten, especially with this new leader.
That's and, and how hard things are getting.
Like they look at how Thoros is just, he's changed.
He looks bedraggled and he's his morale is low and he's just
seeing it through 'cause he feels like he has to.
And people like Lem are kind of turning evil, Not evil, but dark
and and more violent and not so honorable, you know, not so
they've forgotten the lessons of Barek out of the.
People I just named I think. Angai might be the one who
matters the most because he's the most competent, because he's
extremely good at, well, he's. Angai the Archer, isn't he?
We have that theory that if Dark Star comes for Edrick or Dawn
and that means going through Edrick, then Angai would be the
one of the people in his way and that would be a tough person to
overcome. 12 year old conqueror. Remember that quote I gave at
the beginning? If a 12 year old has to conquer
the world, then so be it. George RR Martin.
So that was a in response to a question about the five year
gap. So Edrick would have been 17 or
18 had the five year gap happened.
I don't think it's unreasonable for George to just say, hey, you
know, give him a growth spurt. You know, that's 13 or so.
That's a time when that happens. It's not unrealistic.
He's going to have to do that with the Dragons too, probably.
So we got Dragons and Danes going fast.
Now, obviously, as I said also in the intro, no one's
conquering the world here. This is a turn of a phrase by
George. Not even Daenerys is going to do
that. Bran maybe could do that with
his powers, but he's not going to.
Be 12, He would have been. After the five year gap.
But Bran, when the story ends, Bran won't probably even be 10.
Yeah, John, Danny, Sansa, they're all past 12 now and
again. I mentioned Bloody Ben as maybe
as a precursor to. Edrick.
Now, but what does it mean though, if he doesn't mean
literal conquering the world, which he can't mean that, What
does he mean? Does it mean being a great
warrior, being a great leader at a very early age, achieving
something important, defeating someone important, all of the
above. Each of those things could be
seen to have some overlap. So yeah, I kind of think that's
where he what he means by that, being a leader, being someone, a
a boy or a girl. Doing.
A man or a woman's job, or a leader's job.
Someone too young for that role normally.
The conflict that he seems to be faced with now, now that he's
moved theaters, he's moved from the Riverlands and the
Brotherhood to back to Dorn. The problem is this whole Dark
Star drama with Marcella and and Aryan and and all that and the
the death of Arias Oakhart. He could easily be pulled into
that. Especially because that's the
direction things are headed. They're going over to High
Hermitage which is north of Starfall, not super far away.
Could easily see how they get pulled in.
I think if there's a very good chance that Edrick is pulled N
to the wall, what would Barrick do if the others?
Attacked the wall and everybody knew.
About it. And it was confirmed.
I think Barrick would be like, yeah, well, if we're going to
defend the realm, that's the place to be.
That's the most. That's that's where the people,
the honorable people need to be. The people who were fighting for
Westeros need to go there. And I think Edrick could easily
suss that out himself. Because what would Barrick do?
He would go north too. He would go north, fight at the
Wall. He would go fight the others.
He would go fight the undead, even though he's one of them
now, George has not revealed. The Dane.
House words, but he has created them apparently and he hasn't
revealed them because they might be spoiler which is like, oh, is
it something about Lightbringer or Dawn or both?
I mean, those things could easily go together, so it's
your. Guess is as good as.
Ours. I guess at this point Nina's got
some guesses as what that means. But yeah, I think if George has
plans for him, which meaning how he hasn't abandoned his original
plans for Edrick, it seems very likely this is I'd put this at
the top of the. List that he gets.
Involved in the War for the Dawn, especially because it
would allow him to interact with these Stark characters who might
be in the North as well who should be in the North,
especially John and perhaps Danny as.
Well, if she goes north. On the other hand, we've talked
him up as a, as someone who's ahead of ahead of himself age
wise and leadership wise, maturity wise, he hasn't killed
anyone. So I, I talked about him being a
survivor and fairly competent in battle, but he hasn't
necessarily proven himself as a, you know, the guy in front
that's that's wading through the enemy.
You know, being a survivor isn't the same as being a killer.
He says it. OK, cool.
He says it, yeah. I don't know.
Like since we've last seen him. He's gone a lot, you know what I
mean? Yeah, it's possible he's killed
someone since. But.
After the trial by combat with Sandor, Ari is like, how do you
kill? You know, how many people have
you killed? He's like, I what?
You know, he's like, he's like, I've never killed anyone, you
know? And he's startled by the
question, So. And Aria's like, well, I killed
someone when I was eight. Well, she doesn't say that she
thinks it, but he's like, hmm. So.
And Aria's a good question. Will she encounter him again?
Will Aria and Edrick meet again? If he goes N, Aria's probably
going to go back to the North, too.
So yeah, why not? If not, then it's kind.
Of hard to imagine them. Meeting up because I do think
Aria will go north and if Edrick doesn't go north then he's
probably still down in Dorn, which I really doubt Arda goes
there and yeah and by then he probably will have killed
somebody so. Yeah, now I've killed somebody,
y'all? Could George have plans for him
to meet Jon Snow? That is one of the more
compelling possibilities because of, well, the milk brother
thing. Side by side fighting the others
with his milk brother with his sword of milk glass.
Potentially that. Is not hard to imagine at.
All Edrick doesn't know enough. To.
Tell Jon what really happened about his past.
But the fact that he knows the name of John's mother, even
though he's wrong, most likely John doesn't know better.
So John will be like, really? You know, my mother, you.
Is he still alive? And, and he, Edrick would say,
would probably say yes, Will is still alive down there at
Starfall. That's because there's no
indication she's dead. Edrick didn't speak of her in
the past tense. He said has worked for them for
years and years. In fact, he speaks of her in the
present tense as if she's still alive.
So I very much assume she's alive and John may have given up
on ever learning about his mother now that Eddard is dead.
He's like, well, that's the only person that might have told me,
unless, unless she appears and tells me, Hey, I'm your mom.
So this is this is a possibility John is probably never
considered. And this this Dane kid shows up
and has a similar vibe to John, like he's a guy that is noble
and honorable and forthright. John would, would appreciate
that, you know, he would respect that.
And now this kid has family secrets about him too.
That that could be really interesting.
Bran though, what if he needs Bran?
This is another one that's really hard to figure.
We have long said that not. Just because of the TV.
Show that, yeah, Bran could be the one to reveal the tower Joy
stuff by simply looking into the past, but he has to have a
reason to do that. Something has to clue him in to
that path to look in in the first place.
Unless he knows about the tower Joy.
Unless he has a reason to look. It's like the Dewey Decimal
System, like a library card thing.
If you know where the book is on the shelf, you can read it.
But if you don't even know that book.
Exists. Even if you're omniscient, sort
of like Bran is, he doesn't know where to look.
He doesn't know to look into the tower, Joy.
He hasn't heard of it. So if someone like Edrick Dane
brings it up to him, he'd be like, huh, well, let me gaze
into the past and and see that for myself.
And then he would learn the truth of it.
And then that would be an opportunity for George to put it
on page. That's a very compelling idea,
isn't it? Right now, Bran?
Doesn't. Even know there's a mystery
about John's parentage, if that if the idea is raised, he'd be
like interesting, you know, let me find out you know and Bran
again, Bran's one of the few people with the literal power to
be able to do that. The information could be passed
along in a mundane fashion, but nothing would convince us more
as readers of the truth of something that we've been given
several versions of, right. There's a lot of different
stories about John's parentage. Even though us experienced
readers, those of us deep in the fandom, are pretty darn sure
it's Rhaegar Liana George may want to present it in a way that
leaves no doubt, which in a brand vision would leave no
doubt. That's not a person's opinion.
That's not a person telling a story.
That's us seeing what happened through Bran's vision of the
past. And there's no indication those
visions are are mistaken, or that someone makes them look
like they're not. There's every indication that
other visions are really what happened, Sansa.
As well. It's kind of.
Interesting. You know, obviously I hate to
bring the show up too much, but the way they finished the show
was with her Queen of the North without a husband, which could
very well be how it goes. Nothing she doesn't need a
husband, but if she does have one, this would be kind of a
cool option. You know, like I said, someone
near her age, someone upstanding, nightly, virtuous
highborn. An interesting connection.
That's a really far apart marriage, like a stark marrying
a Dane is kind of cool and a little bit unheard of that far
away like that. So I I kind of like the.
Idea. I'm not as big on.
This. Idea as I am some of the others,
but I wanted to go through all the possibilities and this one
seems kind of fun, seems kind of interesting.
There's something to it, maybe. As we said, Ari is a great
possibility. I'd love to see them meet again.
But Danny is another very compelling possibility.
Again, we bring back the possibility that they are aware
of their ancestral connection between Deanna Dane, even if
Danny doesn't know that. She doesn't have a lot of
knowledge of her own family history, a lot of specifics.
Hedrick probably knows. I mean, right what you don't
forget. That.
You don't forget that your house married in the Targaryens, you
would trumpet. That in fact, that's.
A A the thing you would highlight for others to take
note of, like, Yep, we were chosen as brides to the
Targaryens when they were Royals back in the day.
Yeah, that's a that's a thing to flout.
Sword of the Morning question mark.
It has. Long been a theory that edrick.
Was going to be the sword of the morning after the five year gap.
Is that still the case? Is he too?
Young or is it a case of a 12 year old has to conquer the
world? So be it.
Can a 12 year old sword in the morning exist?
Or 13 year old that might be stretching the notion?
Of what a sword in the morning is.
But these are unusual times. These are just an extreme era.
This is an extraordinary moment in time.
George may have hinted at getting around the age thing, so
we can maybe set that aside. The personality, the honor, the
nobility, the the people he learned from, the people he
looks up to, that all fits. Like you got to be a good, you
got to be virtuous and skilled to be sort of the morning.
Seems like he's on that track, if not already there.
Again, he never was seriously harmed.
Despite all those deaths of Barrack.
He somehow got through all that again, in some cases, no one to
want to kill him. They want to capture him and
ransom him. But he didn't get captured and
Squires do die in battle all the time.
He survived the Mummers Ford. He probably fought in the battle
where Barrick had his second death, which when he took a Mace
to the head by Burton Krakal, one of the most obvious signs
that this is not a living man, his head is caved in.
Like he usually wears. A helmet over it.
But like, again, Ned Dane's going to see him without his
clothes on. He's going to be the guy that
dresses him. No one's going to be up closer
to those wounds other than Thoros.
And this might be like a tie. He fought in that battle of the
Burning Sceptre. As we saw from Mario's point of
view, Vargo Haute killed him right Greg?
Or killed him a second time. Ned made it through.
All these right? Now we again referring.
To the theory of dark stars creation was maybe to seize dawn
because Edrick can't wield it. That doesn't mean they can't
both wield it. Dark star could steal it and
then Edrick could get it back. Something like that.
Or or maybe the darker version where Edrick wields it and the
dark star takes it. The original plan for Aegon, I
mean Edrick, well an Aegon was, could have been for Edrick to be
an ally of Aegon's instead of Dark Star.
Now that's changed, maybe Edrick will be someone else's ally
instead since Dark Star and Edrick won't likely be on the
same side. That could have been tragic.
For the. Original plan, Edrick teaming up
with Aegon, like, yeah, 'cause Aegon's probably not going to
end well and a lot of his allies won't either, but maybe some of
them will will be, will turn to Danny instead of like, yeah
we'll, we'll fight for you instead if none of this dark.
Star business happens. If our theory is wrong, if Dark
Star never has anything to do with Dawn, or if he just fails,
or if it just goes some other direction that we haven't
predicted, Yeah, Adric. Could claim it himself, I mean.
Would it be dishonorable? Would it be a compromise?
Or again, is it a a sign of the times?
Extraordinary to Kimes The others are invading.
You got to bust Dawn out. Screw this old rule.
We need everything we can get to win the dwarf for the Dawn.
We need Dawn to win more for the Dawn and this is this question.
Is difficult. For us to answer, because we
don't know what the selection criteria is in in the 1st place,
we know it has to be virtuous, competent, well, virtuous and
excellent fighter. But that is that's not that
specific, right? How what to what level of
virtuosity? What level of competence is in
combat and who decides where? Who makes the choice?
Like who's going to say if Edrick?
Danes. Like, yeah, I'm taking it.
Who's going to say no? To him, who's going to?
Tell him he can't. His, his uncles, his cousins, I
don't even know if those people exist.
So it might be just no one's going to say no, I get to do it.
That's that now. Is Don Lightbringer Is.
That related to the motto that we haven't been told yet.
I'm I would. Rate that a lower.
Possibility. I think the Dragons are
Lightbringer. There's but there could be
multiple Lightbringers and whether or not it is
Lightbringer is a separate question from what people in the
story think. Some people think Stannis's
Lightbringer is Lightbringer. They don't have to be right?
They aren't, but they act as if it's true.
That's what I'm pointing out here.
Edrick and. Maybe some other people might.
Think Dawn is Lightbringer. They might be wrong, but it's a.
Valid theory that. A lot of people in the fandom
have, so why not people in the story?
Let's return to this Arthur Dayne Edrick parallel.
As we said, they're both. Kingsmen.
Arthur to a greater extreme, being a King's guard who became
outlaws because their side lost. Now Arthur became outlaw when
Aries fell to Robert Baratheon and Edrick became outlaw when
Robert in turn fell to the Lannisters.
So it's kind of like it's both involves Robert.
Technically it was the Lannisters both times who did
the felling of the kings, but in terms of who actually claimed
the throne, yeah, it was Robert so and then Joffrey.
So not just a regime change. But a regime changed while
they're in the field. It's like, oh, that's bad.
So these parallels again with Arthur might be a clue to his
sort of the morningness, right? He's following in some similar
footsteps, helping the commoners, being virtuous,
surviving a lot of battles. You know, it's there's a lot of
similar things going on here. And then again, I'd I just love
the image of John wielding Longclaw, a side Edrick Dane
wielding Dawn, hanging out with the undead, his old hat for
Edrick. He's not going to be
uncomfortable with that, not more than other people would,
doing what's right no matter what.
He stuck with Barrick as an undead being.
Barrick was doing good and I was like that mattered to him more.
His his dedication to Barrick and Barrick's dedication in turn
to justice and honor in protecting the small folk kept
Edrick there. So if Edrick teams up with John
and sees some of those same vibes, some of those same
virtues in John, including being a Firewhite.
Then. Yeah, that's going to be.
Someone he would gravitate towards if he gets the chance
and they have at least a a a thing to kick it all off being
hey, I'm your milk brother man, let's get to talking and see
where this goes. Lot of compelling.
Possibilities y'all. Right.
Like he's a Dane. He might know things about Star
Fall's history, Dawn's history, even if he never wields the
sword. He might have some info for us.
There's just so many things he might know, so many things he
might know that aren't true. That will still be telling.
The fact that he believes it's Willa is telling, even though
that's almost certainly not true.
And what George has planned for him, I mean, he, he, he, there's
really no one like him in terms of the five year gaps
implications. The Starks are still the Starks.
George isn't going to be like, well, since I can't age Sansa up
five years, I'm going to cut her from the story.
That's not a possibility. He might have changed his plans
for Sansa, but he didn't change them.
Like. Massively right.
Same goes for all the Starks. Like none of them are getting
cut from the story because of the five year gap.
I don't think Edrick would either, but he of all the
characters I can think of, the five year gap might infect him
the most. And that's.
Very interesting. I do think I'm going to
reiterate. That he belongs in that Squire
Hall of Fame with Podrick Egg and a few others.
And by that I don't mean fighting skill, though that
helps a little bit. I mean loyalty to the night they
serve, dedication, honor. The qualities that we look for
in adults like Duncan the Tall, Brienne and Corin Halfand and
Jon Snow. These are leaders that are
worthy of that and are worthy of Squires like these because they
have a similar attitude towards virtue and honor and justice.
So I think Edrick, despite what I just said about him, it's
actually. A possibility that George.
Just gets written doesn't have a big plan for him.
I I doubt that. I think he still has a
significant role to play even though it's been changed from
its original conception. I think it's probably like Sansa
and Arya and John. The plan changed a little bit
because of the lack of aging up, but it's still a similar plan
from the original conception. And the best evidence for that
is George's comment. If a 12 year old has to conquer
the world, so be it. Again, he said that in reference
to the five year gap. He's a unique.
Character who is Lord? Of the one of the most unique
houses whose story is tied to perhaps both House Stark and
House Targaryen. In addition to many enduring
mysteries, another incredible job of character creation and
writing by George RR Martin. Few questions.
From y'all let's. Let's talk.
Let's get these handled for y'all.
Kimber Lafay asks how does the timeline of Barracks first
resurrection fit with the return of Dragons?
Were they hatched yet to bring the magic back?
No, they were not. That's a great question, by the
way. Yeah, that Dragons were not
hatched yet. The Dragons were hatched at the
end of Game of Thrones and Barracks.
Resurrection. Happens like halfway through
Game of Thrones. So that like early, like midway
through the book, because, yeah, when Barrack is sent out, you
know, Ned is still alive. Ned has just broken his leg.
Yeah, that's, that's maybe a part past halfway, but it's
nowhere near the end of the book.
So I think, yeah. So this is a good example of
magic. Excuse me, magic prior to the
Dragons. It's an argument against the
Dragons being the 'cause it's an argument that the Dragons are a
one of the symptoms. Another example of that is the
others returned before the Dragons came back.
Melisandre's had powers before the Dragons came back.
Blood Raven had powers, you know, there's, there's, there
are magics that were got used before the Dragons came back.
Even if they're less powerful, they were still there.
Yakiniko says. Has Edrick been converted to
relore during his time in the Brotherhood or does he stay with
the Seven despite his experiences and all he has
witnessed with Barrack and Thoros?
That's a great question and I something I meant to mention, so
I'm really glad you pointed it out.
I, I, I had this in my notes and I must have skipped it somewhere
because Barrack says he knighted everyone, all men, though he
said he knighted all the men Berk and Edrick is a boy.
So I don't think he counted him as a knight.
So I don't think he knighted him.
I think he would have said so if he had been knighted, he would
be Sir Edrick. He's not Sir Edrick, he's just
Edrick. He's Lord Edrick, but no one
even calls him Lord Edrick. They call him Ned, you know.
So I don't think he's a knight, but if he is, then it was done
under the auspices of Relor. But I still think he's probably
O 7 worshipper. I doubt he abandoned the seven.
He was raised on them, and he's a, you know, he's more likely to
do a do a synchronous thing where he he worships them both.
But, yeah, that's a good question.
Yeah. A weezy squeeze box says the
meteor also appears before the return of the Dragons.
Yes, absolutely. The comet appears like before.
Yeah. It's like in the sky when Danny
begins the ritual. It's also in the sky well before
that. Maester Lewin is looking at it
through his mirrorish lens at one point, very early in the
story. I think it's actually during
Brand's vision when he's in a coma.
He's picturing Lewin making notes while looking at the sky,
and it's like, well, that comet is there.
Yaki Nikko also. Points out Alexander the Great
was 16 when he was given his first command and LED that army
to V4. Years before his father died,
that is. True, in fact.
I'm glad you mentioned that because that's getting into
what's going to be happening in our ancient Greece episodes that
we're doing right now. And yes, Alexander the Great
will be appearing in that sort and that battle that you're
referring to. I will be going into great
detail with that, so let's save that for later.
For now, we'll just point out, yes, Alexander the Great was
like basically the second in command for Philip the second
his father. And he was already leading.
Yeah, he was already leading large parts of the army at that
age. Dornish Dame 383 says Edward the
Black Prince also commanded the vanguard at Cressy when he was
only 16. Yeah, Edward the Black Prince
was exceptional. He is somewhat Rhaegar vibes
there. George has compared him a little
bit to Edward the Black Prince, and yeah, this kid was very
Marshall from a young age, very excellent fighter from from a
young from a young age. Going forward.
Trivia answer How old was Edrick Dane when he became Lord
Barrick's? Page 7.
Yeah, seven years old he went. So he's.
You know, he spent seven years in Starfall and then the next
5-6 with Barrick and now only a matter of months have passed
since then. So he's now, I guess he's now
he's on his own for the first time or, and kind of in charge
of his own destiny, not following anybody.
Now he's got people following him like an guy and Swampy Meg
and John O Nuttin. Hey, they've got a place to be
alone now. Like they can have a, they can
have a nice bed at Starfall. Our poll results.
Will. Edrick gain wield Dawn pretty
close, pretty close yes, 57% no 43%.
So those of you hearing those numbers, this is during the live
stream. I'm also, we're also going to
have that poll for those of you listening on the podcast.
So check that vote out and register yours.
See if it goes the same way or not.
And we will reveal that answer in a future Q&A episode.
Reveal that total rather the poll results.
I mentioned Dark Star in this episode, so why not check out
our dance with Dark Star episode if you have not, There's
definitely some crossover here and a lot of Dane content.
And we did a full episode of the Brotherhood without Banners
earlier this year. In fact, if I remember
correctly, there's obviously a good bit about Edrick in there
and more about Barrick and Thoros and a lot of the other
stuff. And Speaking of Thoros, we did
an episode on him, The Full Life of Thoros, which obviously
includes some of this as well. So there's a good amount of
overlap there. And of course, any episode.
We discuss. Has some overlap with our Valar
rereader series because that is the entire coverage of the Song
of Ice and Fire novels, so of course our coverage of these
chapters is relevant as well. Thanks again.
To Nina. For her great assistance or
great notes, Lots of good stuff in here.
She's also been hard at work on some more Targaryen Kings
episodes, which we'll be bringing to you in the short
term and in the long term because hey, there's multiples
we got working. Thanks as well to Joey Townsend
for our music and to Michael Klarfeld for the maps you see
behind us and for our video that starts the episode on behalf of
Ushera, I'm Aziz. We'll see you next time, and you
know what to do. Until then, Valar Rereadus.