1 00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:51,300 Perhaps the most famous character cut from the TV show 2 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:56,020 was Lady Stoneheart, but that is but one aspect of her existence 3 00:00:56,020 --> 00:00:59,500 that is unusual, if not just short of unique. 4 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,120 George twisted the undead trope or inverted it, whatever you 5 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,240 want to call it, to make Barack Dondarian a good guy. 6 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,120 But he may have gone more classic with Lady Stoneheart 7 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,560 returning from death to take revenge on those who wronged her 8 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,320 and her family. I say may have, because we 9 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:19,880 pretty much know the full story of Barack Dondarian. 10 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,040 It's complete. We may learn a few more details, 11 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,880 but for all intents and purposes, it's over. 12 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Lady Stoneheart, not so much. We have, honestly, she hasn't 13 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,800 been around very long, so we have a lot less to work with and 14 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,120 a lot more guesswork. So there's clearly a lot more to 15 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,320 come. Or at least if it's not a lot 16 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:42,080 more to come, we have a lot of trouble guessing what it's going 17 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,240 to be. Jamie, Brienne, the Brotherhood 18 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,000 without Banners, Thoros, Harwin and the rest. 19 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,480 The phrase the Red Wedding, 2 point O, Jane Westerling, Edmure 20 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,800 Tully, The Blackfish, these are all characters she might 21 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,160 interact with or are interacting with actively. 22 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,640 Obviously the rest of the BWB and Thoros and Harwin. 23 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,920 But there's other characters she may interact with and we have to 24 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,320 consider what that might be like. 25 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,960 We know she's searching for Aria, but will she find her? 26 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,080 Will Aria and Catlin be reunited? 27 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,920 Will she learn that Rickon and Bran are alive or where Sansa 28 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,640 is? And what does her case tell us 29 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:22,200 about the undead? I mean, she's basically a 30 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,000 firewhite, right? I mean, that's what he called 31 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,920 Barrick and Barrick passed his wife force on to her. 32 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:34,520 So she is the same category in terms of what animates her and 33 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,000 has her walking around the the power behind all that, even if 34 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,040 we don't know exactly what that is. 35 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,840 It's the same as what it was for Barrick, even though their 36 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,560 personalities are quite different. 37 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,360 So we've got a number of possible reunions to discuss, 38 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,960 who's on her hit list, what's in store for her and the rest of 39 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,720 the BWB, and we'll include a bit of real life lore about 40 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,320 revenants and related mythology to spice things up a bit. 41 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,840 All that and more on this episode of History of Westeros 42 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:07,160 podcast. Hello and welcome back 43 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,760 everybody. It's another episode of History 44 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,840 of Westeros. It's Sunday at 3:00 Eastern, 45 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,320 which is when we do our regular live streams. 46 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,240 When we're in ATV season, the time slot is 6:00 PM Mondays. 47 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,880 Since we're getting closer to that, I wanted to throw out that 48 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,160 reminder. If you want to catch us after 49 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,040 the live stream or on a different platform, we're 50 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,600 available as a video also on Spotify and any other podcast 51 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,720 platform as an audio episode. And if you listen on Patreon as 52 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,600 a member, you get it ad free. Shout out to our good friend 53 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,240 Nina. Happy anniversary to Nina and 54 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,760 her husband James. It's their it's their first yay. 55 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Make sure to check out good queenalley.tumblr.com. 56 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,120 That's one L in alley and she gave me some good thoughts for 57 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,200 this one as usual. No surprise there, right 58 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,520 questions. If you have them, put them here 59 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,360 in the chat or ask us at westeroshistory@gmail.com or 60 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,880 send us a message on Patreon. Hit us at Blue Sky or in the 61 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,480 Facebook group or on the Discord. 62 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,640 We'll we'll see it and we'll answer it. 63 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,640 Maybe not right away, but we'll get there. 64 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,959 Our trivia question for today answer will be at the end, but 65 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:18,920 the answer is also during the episode. 66 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,480 If you're paying attention, you might hear me drop that. 67 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,520 Lady Catlin of course, is killed at the Red Wedding, but what was 68 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,120 the original location George planned for her death? 69 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,880 Like I said, answer at the end. Today let me tell you what our 70 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,560 different sections are. We have first appearance and 71 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,800 mention as we so often do. Then we have undead unfinished. 72 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,720 Then we have rumors. Then we have what is a revenant? 73 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,400 That's the IRL discussion. Then we have a broken 74 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,800 brotherhood. That's actually a quote from 75 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,080 Thoros, a swarm of swords appreciation. 76 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,440 This Lady Stoneheart's reveal is at the end, of course, of of A 77 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,320 Storm of Swords, a book that is full of climactic moments. 78 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,440 So I wanted to sort of just compare a lot of his climactic 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,840 moments to each other real quickly before we get back to 80 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,480 the episode at the halfway point. 81 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,000 And when we do so, we'll continue with the path of the 82 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,920 Hang woman. Then you must prove your face. 83 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:17,120 Then a section on reunions parsed to Aria, Uncle Brendan, 84 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:22,200 Hallen Reed, Sansa, Winterfell and the North, and then we will 85 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,720 finish with outlook for vengeance. 86 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,480 Some of the meatiest part of the episode is at the end, but 87 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,960 there's plenty of good stuff before our poll today. 88 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,120 If you are watching on YouTube or if you are catching the 89 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,120 episode on Spotify, which I believe is the only places where 90 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,160 our polls can appear, the technology, technology, the the 91 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,920 functionality isn't there on other platforms like we do not 92 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,600 have the technology for polling the. 93 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,520 Technology exists. The technology does exist, just 94 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,040 not on every platform that we're on. 95 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,640 That's what I meant to say. So the question is, will Arya 96 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,800 and Stoneheart meet? Simple yes or no question. 97 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,160 Do you believe Arya and Stoneheart will meet or do you 98 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,560 think they won't? Let's get to the first mention. 99 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,560 After a series of incredible climaxes and a Storm of Swords, 100 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,680 this is the final one in the whole book. 101 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:16,360 Quote. They say Lord Barrack always 102 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,680 gives a man a trial, that he won't kill a man unless 103 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:25,040 something's proved against him. You can't prove anything against 104 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,960 me. The Red Wedding was my father's 105 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:33,120 work, and Ryman's and Lord Bolton's Lothar rigged the tents 106 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,560 to collapse and put the crossbow men in the gallery with the 107 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,360 musicians. Bastard Walder led the attack on 108 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,680 the camps. They're the ones you want, not 109 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,120 me. I only drank some wine. 110 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,120 You have no witness. As it happens, you're wrong 111 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,960 there. The singer turned to the hooded 112 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,520 woman. My lady. 113 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,000 The outlaws parted as she came forward, saying no word. 114 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,960 When she lowered her hood, something tightened inside 115 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,000 Merritt's chest, and for a moment he could not breathe. 116 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:16,040 No, no, I saw her die. She was dead for a day and night 117 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,280 before they stripped her naked and threw her body in the river. 118 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Raymond opened her throat from ear to ear. 119 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,400 She was dead. And then she was in the river 120 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,200 for a while before Barrett came along. 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,680 She was dead. Was. 122 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,200 Or maybe she still is and is walking around. 123 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,520 It's a semantics point, we don't need to get into that. 124 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,200 Now. This isn't the bravest man in 125 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,280 the 1st place. I wouldn't say he's a coward 126 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,840 either, but this would be. I mean this is enough to make 127 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,480 brave people terrified. And before seeing her he was 128 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,880 already trying to argue. Don't hang me. 129 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,720 So he was already quite afraid before that. 130 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,720 He was, well primed for additional fear, shall we say. 131 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,240 He had already knew that basically the moment he saw his 132 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,600 cousin Peter Pitt. I forget if that's his cousin or 133 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:05,560 his brother. What? 134 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:06,600 I don't remember. It doesn't matter. 135 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,880 He knew. I mean, Peter could have made 136 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,840 that same argument. I have no proof. 137 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:11,200 You have? No. 138 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:12,520 Yeah, but they they do have proof. 139 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,560 And I don't think they really care about proof because Lord 140 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,000 Barrack's not around anymore. It's really just guilt by 141 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,600 association at this point. But he really was guilty. 142 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:20,800 So, yeah. Fair enough. 143 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,920 Now let's just think about this from her perspective, not this 144 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,440 hanging of merit that's a little more straightforward, but I just 145 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,720 mean like the moment she came back to life, quote UN quote. 146 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,679 When Barrick woke, it was jolting and strange. 147 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,440 He describes it. He felt the fire in his mouth, 148 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,480 he felt the wound. He had some idea where he was, 149 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,560 but it was confusing. But his body was whole, right? 150 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:51,880 He except for the actual hole in his chest from the Lance that 151 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,880 Sir Gregoire put there. But he wasn't like debilitated 152 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,760 all over. His flesh wasn't rotting, his 153 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,400 skin wasn't melting, you know, in the water and all that. 154 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,800 So I consider the possibility that she is in pain all the 155 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,080 time. It's also possible she doesn't 156 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,760 really feel much pain. So it's really just both ends of 157 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,840 the spectrum are possible here. Has she looked in a mirror? 158 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:19,760 That's a tough question. It's not like mirrors are common 159 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,840 in Westeros and she's not exactly living like a lady in 160 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,240 these caves and and hideouts we see. 161 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,920 But I mean, maybe she saw her reflection in water. 162 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,960 That's not unlikely. And she sees how everyone looks 163 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,160 at her. But what does that matter to 164 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,680 her? I mean, as an undead being 165 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:43,440 that's really focused on her revenge and finding her children 166 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:46,040 or maybe just one child in particular at this point. 167 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,040 I don't know how much this effects her, but it might affect 168 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,760 her a lot. Because if you think about what 169 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,800 she was as a living person, she cared about looks when she was 170 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,440 alive. I mean, she was high born and 171 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,760 good looking. And yeah, I mean, I'm not 172 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,800 faulting her for that, but it definitely matters. 173 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,280 She, I'm not saying she was vain, but there's that time she 174 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,320 thinks about how sad it is for Brienne to be ugly. 175 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,520 The the quote is pity filled Catlin's heart. 176 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,640 Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman? 177 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,520 Now, to be fair, the follow up line, 'cause that's kind of, 178 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,440 that's a little gnarly of a statement there, but the 179 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,000 following line is then. Yet when Renly cut away her torn 180 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,880 cloak and fastened a rainbow in its place, Brienne of Tars did 181 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,600 not look unfortunate. Her smile lit up her face and 182 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,200 her voice was strong and proud. And then she swears to defend 183 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,000 Renly with her life. And then Catelyn goes right back 184 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,000 to pitying her when she sees how Brienne is looking at Renly like 185 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,800 oh boy, she is just besotted, isn't she? 186 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,080 So. And that's important too, 187 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,000 because the next person Brienne swears to is, is her, right? 188 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,920 She swears to Renly and then Renly dies and she swears her 189 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,920 life of service to Catelyn instead. 190 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,760 Now, yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 191 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,400 This isn't a, you know, there's no system for this kind of sort 192 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,440 of thing. But Lady Stoneheart is probably 193 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,760 the ugliest human like creature walking around. 194 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,840 I mean, wow, she's fearsomely disturbing when you get the 195 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,160 description. And here it is. 196 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,560 Merritt Frey would surely agree. Quote. 197 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,600 Her cloak and collar hid the gash his brother's blade had 198 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,880 made, but her face was even worse than he remembered. 199 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:24,000 The flesh had gone, putting soft in the water, and turned the 200 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,880 color of curdled milk. Half her hair was gone, and the 201 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,120 rest had turned as white and brittle as a Crohn's. 202 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:39,240 Beneath her ravaged scalp, her face was shredded skin and black 203 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,440 blood where she had raked herself with her nails. 204 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,280 But her eyes were the most terrible thing. 205 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,440 Her eyes saw him, and they hated. 206 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,800 That's such good writing. Like the description is 207 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,720 terrifying, but the eyes are the worst thing and there's nothing 208 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,240 like unnatural about them, right? 209 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,320 He doesn't describe like they're discolored now. 210 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,640 There is a later quote that it makes it sound like they're a 211 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,880 bit reddish. We'll talk about that at the 212 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,040 time. But he's not saying anything 213 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,240 about that. It's just the, the look in them. 214 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,280 It's not the their physical qualities. 215 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,640 And of course, he doesn't note anything unusual about them. 216 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,960 So it's just her intensity is more disturbing to him than her 217 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,240 horrifying visit, which is really quite horrifying. 218 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,760 So that's very intense, very descriptive. 219 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,960 Now he says she was worse than he remembered because he saw her 220 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,120 dead body. And you saw her dead body as it 221 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,920 started to turn for about a day, day and a half. 222 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,480 Then they threw her in the water and the body drifted downstream 223 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,800 to be found. George is very big on emotional 224 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,400 eyes. Coming back to that briefly. 225 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,480 We saw the polar OPS. It's like just now if you caught 226 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,960 that, we got the purest love look from Brienne to Renly, and 227 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,080 then the purest look of hatred and murder from Stoneheart to 228 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,840 Merritt Frey. So the red eyes burning thing is 229 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,480 kind of a reminder that she's a fireweight. 230 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,680 I don't know that it's meant to be taken literal, but yeah. 231 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,000 Well, what's something to think about now? 232 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:09,440 The actual first time the word stoneheart appears is in a 233 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,280 Brienne chapter when she's speaking to Lord Randall Tarley. 234 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,840 Quote. Cleganes turned outlaw. 235 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,360 He rides with Barack Dondarian now, it would seem. 236 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,920 Or not. The tales vary. 237 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,360 Show me where they're hiding. I will gladly slit their bellies 238 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,040 open, pull their entrails out and burn them. 239 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,440 We've hanged dozens of outlaws, but the leaders still elude US. 240 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,240 Clegane, Dondarian, the Red Priest. 241 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,160 And now this woman's stone heart. 242 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:48,080 How do you propose to find them when I cannot? 243 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,600 Obviously Randall Tarly, not a very big fan of Brienne, and 244 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,760 obviously he has some information wrong here, or at 245 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,440 least he acknowledges that he might know that the information 246 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,560 might be wrong. Like Clegane is not writing with 247 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:02,800 Barack Dondarian. Matt Gerndarian isn't writing 248 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,720 with anybody. And that's Lem Lemon cloak, not 249 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,600 not Sandor Clegane. And actually he's referring to 250 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,400 what Rorge did. Rorge was wearing the helmet 251 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,880 when the worst of the crimes were committed. 252 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,360 But of course, Rorge was killed by Brienne, and it's now wearing 253 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,640 the Lem, is now wearing the helmet. 254 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,720 So Tarly has a lot of experience in hunting outlaws. 255 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,680 And he says, I've hanged dozens of them. 256 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,320 And one of the brothers later points that out that, yeah, 257 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,840 Tarly's killed a lot of us. But that's done. 258 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,720 Tarly has stopped because he went to King's Landing the 259 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,640 moment he heard that Marjorie was about to go on trial. 260 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,480 And then he was made master of laws. 261 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,880 He's on the Small council. He wasn't when he was chasing 262 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,320 the outlaws. So that's a big difference. 263 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,400 He's he's way above this now. He, he might send someone else 264 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,240 out to hunt outlaws, but it's really just not his business 265 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,000 anymore. It does make sense that the 266 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,360 Master of Laws would deal with outlaws, but he's got much 267 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,240 bigger problems. Like the Golden Company just 268 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,920 landed and the War of 5 Kings is still raging. 269 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,880 And he might be plotting against the people he's planning to work 270 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,880 for. He might be on the side of Aegon 271 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,720 and the Golden Company in it. That's a whole separate topic, 272 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,960 but the point is he's not really concerned with Stoneheart 273 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,040 anymore. If he turns his attention back 274 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,680 to that, it won't be something he handles personally. 275 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,880 Here's a quote from A Game of Thrones. 276 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,320 Might just be a coincidence. Check the wording here, it's 277 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,360 pretty curious. Quote. 278 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,240 Rob, I will not soften the truth for you if you lose. 279 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:44,080 There is no hope for any of us. They say there is not but stone 280 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,760 at the heart of Castor the Rock. Remember the fate of Rhaegar's 281 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,240 children. Whether George meant that as a 282 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,040 setup for Stoneheart, like it's entirely possible he hadn't 283 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,240 chosen the name Stoneheart, we definitely know he planned for 284 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,120 her death from the beginning, but it wasn't like this that he 285 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,840 changed a lot of it. And maybe the end game too. 286 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,280 We don't know what the original end game for her was, and we 287 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,480 don't know what it is now, but it's still a good quote even if 288 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,240 it wasn't intentional. It's it's it's telling because 289 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,080 he's her last line. There is. 290 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,600 Remember the fate of Rhaegar's children? 291 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,920 And when Cat becomes Stoneheart, she has a similar attitude. 292 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,760 She has no problem hanging Podrick Payne. 293 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,160 He's a 14 year old. At most he might only be 294 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,520 thirteen. So yeah, she doesn't even like, 295 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,200 consider. She's like, yeah, this is a 296 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,600 Lannister Squire. Like, no question, we kill him. 297 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,160 It wasn't even the idea that he's too young didn't matter to 298 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,520 them at all. Brienne's argument towards that, 299 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,280 it didn't help. Like she didn't even really try 300 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,240 to get Heil Hunt off because she didn't really have an argument 301 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:49,240 to make. They're like, that's Randall 302 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,840 Tarly's man, you know, blah, blah, blah. 303 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,120 I got nothing but Podrick Payne. He's a boy. 304 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,320 Like that should have counted for something. 305 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,760 But now they didn't care. And if what would she do if she 306 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,440 got her hands on Tom and her Marcel? 307 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:02,680 I don't think it would be pretty. 308 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,480 I don't think she's going to get her hands on either of them. 309 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,200 I'm not predicting that. But just the point being she is 310 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,520 on that level now. She's willing to go that far, 311 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,800 and I am predicting both Tommen and Marcelle to die, just not at 312 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,640 the hands of Lady Stoneheart and her people. 313 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,839 And Speaking of the Lannisters and hands, it's notable that she 314 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,760 nearly had her throat cut by a Lannister foot pad sent to kill 315 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,400 Bran instead of her throat. It was her hands or hands. 316 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,520 I forget if it was one or both. Anyway, those scars became part 317 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,800 of her POV. She'd look at them from time to 318 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,600 time. They're, you know, they're a 319 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,880 memory of what she's capable of and her symbol of her devotion 320 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,760 to her children. I mean, when it came down to it, 321 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,000 she did not hesitate. She proved herself willing to 322 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,640 take a knife for her kid. And that wasn't just bravado. 323 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,640 It wasn't like, if it came to this, I would do that. 324 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,920 No, we saw her do it. It's in the books, right? 325 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,440 I don't mean like in the book, like Game of Thrones. 326 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,160 I mean, it's it's done and accounted for when it came down 327 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:02,600 to it. Yeah. 328 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,760 She put herself between that blade, no question. 329 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,440 I never really thought about that as a lesser version of her 330 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,040 eventual fate. I don't know that George 331 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,040 intended that as a setup either, but it certainly works that way, 332 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,200 right? She has that dagger almost cut 333 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,880 her throat, she gets away from it and then the dagger does cut 334 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,120 her throat at the Red Wedding. And in both cases, it's a kind 335 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:29,400 of an unimportant person, right? It's the foot pad that Joffrey 336 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,360 probably hired to send to kill Bran. 337 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:32,920 We don't even know what that guy's name is. 338 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,440 It doesn't even matter. And the Frey that killed her is 339 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,960 like Raymond, not Raymond. Raymond, one of the unimportant. 340 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,720 I mean, a lot of them are kind of unimportant, but one of the 341 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,840 phrase that you only hear name spoken a few times. 342 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,200 It wasn't like Black Walder or Edmund or any of the more famous 343 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,640 ones. It's just one random Frey. 344 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:56,200 So again, it was Joffrey's work, almost certainly, but Cat was of 345 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:57,760 course led to believe it was Tyrion. 346 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,880 But that almost doesn't matter because Joffrey, Tyrion. 347 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,800 Either way, it's a Lannister and she doesn't really have nuance 348 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,640 about these things these days, as far as we can tell. 349 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,600 So any Lannister is worth killing. 350 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,280 I think that is where we could say her mind is at these days. 351 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,400 A hidden layer here is Catlin's mother, Manissa Went, whom she 352 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,320 remembers is having a warm smile and soft hands, which is not 353 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,520 much else she has to remember because she didn't know her 354 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,360 mother. Her mother died young when she 355 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:31,000 was young. But Stoneheart's hands are torn 356 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,240 up and scarred and she's no longer warm. 357 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,600 She's as cold as stone, and her grim visage is certainly not a 358 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,720 warm smile. So she has become more the 359 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,080 opposite of her mother. I guess then you could say that 360 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,120 she was the opposite of herself. There's still a lot of Catalan 361 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,240 in Lady Stoneheart, but comparing her to her mother, 362 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,480 which to be fair there's very little detail here it but it 363 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,520 does appear to be pretty much the opposite. 364 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Undead unfinished. Both Barrick and Catelyn are 365 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,360 seemingly made more single minded in Undead. 366 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,320 As if trying to finish the unfinished, Barrick continued to 367 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,640 bring justice to the small folk. He was sort of still on the 368 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,560 mission. He was originally sent out on 369 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,280 Catelyn. Literally died a moment after 370 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,880 killing Afray in revenge for them killing her son. 371 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,960 So that's still what she's involved in. 372 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,000 But Stoneheart is also highly interested in finding Aria. 373 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,640 It's not just about the revenge, it's also about the rescuing her 374 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,800 child. Now, what would she do if she 375 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,160 finds Aria? That's a tough question. 376 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,280 Like she can't like be a mother to her. 377 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,720 Does she just want her to be safe? 378 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,400 And is that enough? Like what is her end game with 379 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,600 finding Aria? I mean, as a mother, you want to 380 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,080 find your kid. You don't need an end game 381 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,800 there. But this is just so different 382 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,560 because this is this is an undead. 383 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,320 Like, it's just, she's just not the same person. 384 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,880 So she would surely give up a lot for her family, even in this 385 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,400 state. We saw her do it in life. 386 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,080 She would surely do it in death. But if it's not Arya or one of 387 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,960 her other family members, it's just kill, kill, kill. 388 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,960 You know, revenge kill, murder. Phrase. 389 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,840 Lannister's, Bolton's, Bolton's are kind of out of range for her 390 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,560 right now. We'll talk about that a little 391 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,600 more later. But Lannister's and phrase, 392 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,320 there's plenty of them around now. 393 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Harwin at the time, what we're told is Harwin begged Thoros to 394 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,800 give her the kiss of life. And Thoros is like, I don't know 395 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,640 about that. Look at her like she's been in 396 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,720 the water for three days. I'm not doing that. 397 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,240 He just, he says, I don't want to do that. 398 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,480 But Barrick did. He brought her back, passing the 399 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,120 life force of himself. And there's a couple of aspects 400 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:46,760 to that, which is a little, maybe a little more about 401 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,680 Barrick than than about her. He had been expressing how he's 402 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,200 tired of it, you know, he's this this existence is becoming 403 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,040 torturous for him. He can't remember who he is. 404 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,680 He doesn't have an identity. He is becoming slipping more and 405 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,480 more into maybe a trophy undead version like the kind of 406 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,160 mindless, not that he ever became fully mindless, but he 407 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,960 was slipping towards that and he recognized it. 408 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,160 He recognized he was already in kind of inhuman and getting more 409 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,240 and more like that. And that's not a very good place 410 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,840 to be. So I wonder if he had considered 411 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,400 that before, if there's anybody else he considered passing the 412 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,400 gift on to. And when did he even learn he 413 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,920 could do that? Like, how did where did that 414 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,000 come from for Thoros? It was something he'd done a 415 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,640 bunch of times as a ritual. And then it just worked. 416 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,080 Barrack just somehow knew he could pass that on to her. 417 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,960 That's an interesting little puzzle, isn't it? 418 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,560 So he was willing to give himself up and for her. 419 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,240 And she rose what this is like. I mean, what must everybody have 420 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,640 thought? Now? 421 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,680 She isn't dying repeatedly. So that's a different thing that 422 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,360 they have between them. I she may still have a tortured 423 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,000 existence. She might be in pain a lot like 424 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,200 physical pain. As I said, obviously she's not 425 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,360 happy with what happened to her family. 426 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,760 That's torturous too, just day-to-day living with the 427 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,720 knowledge of that happened. So that's crucial because if she 428 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,960 were losing her memories, then maybe some of that would fade. 429 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,760 She's not though. She has not died a single time. 430 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:15,520 Now that raises two other questions Later in the episode, 431 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,480 we're going to consider the idea of her passing her life force on 432 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,520 to somebody else, like paying it forward yet again. 433 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,200 It goes from Barrack to Stoneheart to well, I don't know 434 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,040 who that third person would be. There's a few candidates. 435 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,880 But and the other concept here is, is she going to is something 436 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,840 going to happen to her when like is there is there an end state? 437 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Is there some sort of like, oh, I've done what I came back for 438 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:41,720 so I can just pass on, right? Is that even a possibility? 439 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,040 Like, is that where this is headed? 440 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,560 And of course, the other question that this addresses is 441 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,760 it gives us fodder and theory material to work with for how it 442 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,160 might go for Jon Snow. Now here's when Brienne meets 443 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,840 her quote. A trestle table had been set up 444 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,280 across The Cave. In a cleft in the rock behind it 445 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,600 sat a woman, all in Gray, cloaked and hooded. 446 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,080 In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron 447 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,000 swords. She was studying it, her fingers 448 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,800 stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness. 449 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,920 Her eyes glimmered under her hood. 450 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:31,240 Gray was the color of the Silent Sisters, the handmaidens of the 451 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,000 stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her 452 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,440 spine. Stone Heart. 453 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,640 Indeed, that's the implication behind that particular nickname 454 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,920 of hers, one of many, the Silent sister. 455 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:45,600 Very fitting, right? This. 456 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,200 The Silent Sisters work with the dead and they don't talk. 457 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,080 Now, Catelyn can talk a little bit, but of course it's very 458 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,600 difficult for her and it's hard to understand even when she is 459 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,520 managing. And of course, she dresses in 460 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,800 Gray, so that matches as well. That's what the Silent sisters 461 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,320 do. And of all the seven, well, it's 462 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,040 pretty easy to say which of the seven she most identifies with. 463 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,520 And it's not the mother and it's not the Crone, even though she's 464 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,200 got elements of both of them. It's the stranger. 465 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,600 Yeah, it's definitely the stranger. 466 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:21,360 Nina had a good comparison here. It's like those people that have 467 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,160 to use the talk box that have, they've just smoked too many 468 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,000 cigarettes and they have had surgery or a whole poked in 469 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,120 their neck to be able to talk properly. 470 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,920 And it's, you know, the, the sound comes through there. 471 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,240 It's like that, but without the technology. 472 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,320 It's a hole in your throat. You can still communicate 473 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,840 through like she has to hold her, she has to pinch the slash 474 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,160 closed in order to get sound to come out. 475 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:47,040 And even then it's difficult. So that's just even the way she 476 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,000 talks the, the logistics behind her using her voice is creative 477 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000 and terrifying. You know, George is so clever 478 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,600 with that sort of thing. So she represents death in the 479 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,960 unknown, which is why I, you know, seem think the Stranger is 480 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,400 the best pairing there. Now, of course, that's Rob's 481 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,320 crown she's looking at. She's checking it out. 482 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,400 It's the bronze circle at Ring by Iron Swords. 483 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,760 She must be remembering what happened and just thinking about 484 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,280 Rob and Vengeance and maybe remembering what it was like to 485 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,880 be his mother. Just who knows what's going 486 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,040 through her head, but she's clearly moved by it, and this 487 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,480 isn't an idle moment. She's just gotten this crown. 488 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,080 When Brienne meets her, Stoneheart has just returned 489 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,680 from Fair Market. It's not necessarily obvious 490 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,400 what that means. We find out in a different 491 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,960 chapter that Ryman Frey and his escort were hanged at Fair 492 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,520 Market and Ryman Frey had the crown. 493 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:54,880 Yes, so in fact, Ryman Frey was being petty. 494 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,920 I believe what happens is Ryman is doing a terrible job be 495 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:04,800 leading the siege against River Run and he's cavorting with a 496 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,280 sex worker and he's placed Rob's crown on her head. 497 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,440 She's wearing the crown when Jamie walks up and he's like, 498 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,080 what the hell is going on here? He embarrasses Ryman's, tells 499 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560 him to get the hell out of here, go back home, gives charge to 500 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,480 his son Edwin instead and nicknames this sex worker the 501 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,520 queen of horrors. He's like you can take your 502 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,040 queen of horrors with you, but the crown stays. 503 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:36,440 Well, clearly the crown did not stay Ryman, I guess, perturbed 504 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,800 or his pride stung at Jamie's treatment of him was like, well, 505 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,320 I'm keeping the crown. Screw you, man. 506 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,680 No, you're not. You're getting hanged. 507 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,560 And Stoneheart has the crown now, so that's maybe something 508 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,120 that was easy to miss. Like I think most people caught 509 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,520 that was Rob's crown, but you might not have caught how the 510 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,200 the journey that the crown took to get to her. 511 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,400 But Brienne doesn't recognize it. 512 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,560 She's never seen it. She was never in Rob's presence. 513 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,920 More importantly, she doesn't recognize her. 514 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,680 She doesn't know this is Catelyn. 515 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,440 She just knows this is Stoneheart. 516 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,160 She's heard about Stoneheart but has yet to make the connection. 517 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:16,960 But here is the reveal quote. Lady Stoneheart lowered her hood 518 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,840 and unwound the Gray wool scarf from her face. 519 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,280 Her hair was dry and brittle, white as bone. 520 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,480 Her brow was mottled green and Gray, spotted with the brown 521 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,400 blooms of decay. The flesh of her face clung in 522 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,640 ragged strips from her eyes down to her jaw. 523 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,440 Some of the rips were crusted with dried blood, but others 524 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,480 gaped open to reveal the skull beneath. 525 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,360 I got thrown because it was a poem for a second there. 526 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,240 Green and Gray with brown blooms of decay. 527 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,280 George is so good at that. But yeah, his ability to 528 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,440 describe things, his description is something I'm having read a 529 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,080 few other novels lately, and it's something I'm always 530 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,680 keeping track of, is comparing George's writing style to other 531 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,200 people's. It's not always just in the 532 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,800 front of my mind, but it comes up from time to time. 533 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,600 And just his ability to be poetic with his descriptions. 534 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,520 I say I think something that really stands out, that other 535 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,640 people just don't bother with as many descriptions as he does. 536 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,880 And when they do, they're a lot more straightforward. 537 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,640 They're a lot more mundane. But yeah, this is just like, 538 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,120 like, even if you got this, even if you use this imagery stuck 539 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,840 with you, having the words read to you again to reshape that 540 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,320 vision is like, yeah, it's just really powerful. 541 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,840 So Brandon didn't know who it was until this moment. 542 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,120 She's like, Oh my God, it's, it's, it's Catelyn. 543 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,520 And she's not as terrified as Merritt because she isn't being 544 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:42,760 threatening, threatened with hanging. 545 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,160 Well, she is, but she doesn't know it. 546 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,440 She doesn't know how much danger she's in at this point because 547 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,480 she doesn't know that's Catelyn. That's part of why she doesn't 548 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,920 know. And what is switching POV's 549 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,000 here? What is going through 550 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,240 Stoneheart's mind in this moment, too, when she is 551 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,440 reunited with Brienne and is confronted with what looks like 552 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,840 pretty damning evidence against Brienne? 553 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,960 We know better. We know very thoroughly better. 554 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,800 We've been in her head. We've seen Jamie's reactions, 555 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,240 and in his head, we know both of them are sincere. 556 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:20,320 But obviously that nuance is very far from clear here, if 557 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,240 even, if it would matter. So here's what Stoneheart is 558 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,840 doing when while we're wondering what's going through her head 559 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,920 quote. She studied the sword, the 560 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,200 parchment, the bronze and iron crown. 561 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:40,680 Finally, she reached up under her jaw and grasped her neck as 562 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,760 if she meant to throttle herself. 563 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:49,760 Instead, she spoke. Her voice was halting, broken, 564 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,520 tortured. The sound seemed to come from 565 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,240 her throat. Part croak, part wheeze, part 566 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,320 death rattle. The language of the damned, 567 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:07,600 thought Brienne. Yeah, I almost wish they had put 568 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,160 put that on TV. What would that have sounded 569 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,360 like? They could have done some clever 570 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,680 things with that. So even the sound of her voice 571 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,520 is horrifying. Merritt Frey didn't really deal 572 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,880 with that. He it was enough for him, but he 573 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,400 didn't actually hear her attempt to speak. 574 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,800 It's like pursing your lips to whistle, but it's your neck she 575 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,040 has to purse. And it's a wheeze, not a whistle 576 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,920 or a death rattle or a croak, as it says. 577 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,160 There's a vague similarity to Roose Bolton here, symbolic 578 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,640 maybe, or maybe just the way it works out the, the, the, the 579 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,160 gravity of the speaker here, which is that he doesn't speak 580 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,800 inhumanly, but he intentionally speaks very softly. 581 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,120 So people have to strain to hear him. 582 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,600 It's a form of power. He's like, you have to work 583 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,600 harder to hear what I'm saying, but you have to hear what I'm 584 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,440 saying because I'm a Lord, so you can't just ignore me. 585 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,360 So yeah, he's exerting his will over people and in kind of a 586 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,200 petty manner. Mccaitlin isn't doing that on 587 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,640 purpose. It's the only choice she has. 588 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,840 But it has the same effect. It has the same gravity as 589 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080 everybody has to really. You have to pay very close 590 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,760 attention and concentrate just to even hear what she's saying. 591 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:14,920 Now, she also has some help. Harwin is basically, to borrow a 592 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,200 concept from The Lord of the Rings, she's like the Mouth. 593 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,080 He's like the mouth of Stoneheart, but not really. 594 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,800 The Mouth of Sauron is a human that is an independent being 595 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,040 that has his own goals and is very cunning independently. 596 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,160 But he is, he was Sauron's like ambassador in a sense. 597 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,640 This is just, you know, Harwin isn't really an ambassador. 598 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:44,280 He's just translating rumors. Brianne and Sir Heil, before of 599 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,040 course they are captured, discuss where the hound, of 600 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,040 course not knowing who the hound is at this point, might be 601 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,600 quote. Dondarian's men are looking for 602 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,400 him too. They have put out word that they 603 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,560 mean to hang him for what he did at Salt Pans. 604 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,200 They had no part of that. Lord. 605 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,160 Randall is putting it about that. 606 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,200 They did in hopes of turning the Commons against Barrick and his 607 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,480 brotherhood. He will never take the Lightning 608 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,720 Lord so long as the Slaw folk are protecting him. 609 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:20,920 And there's this other band led by this woman, Stoneheart Lord, 610 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,480 Barracks lover, according to one tale. 611 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,520 Supposedly she was hanged by the phrase, but Donderian kissed her 612 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,320 and brought her back to life. And now she cannot die, no more 613 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,360 than he can. You can just look at this and 614 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,920 see how the truth turned into rumor, the kiss of life. 615 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,160 Well, like, oh, he kissed her then maybe they had a 616 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,040 relationship, right? You can see how that turns into 617 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,520 Lord barracks lover cause of the kissing, right? 618 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,640 And if they're both leading bands of the brotherhood, you 619 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,960 could see maybe there's some sort of equality there. 620 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,360 But of course, this is all wrong. 621 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,360 She wasn't hanged by them close enough. 622 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,280 You know, her neck was slashed. It was these these days had the 623 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,800 part of the body right and Donderian isn't even there 624 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,520 anymore. There is there is two groups, 625 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,320 though that one of them is not necessarily a group so much as 626 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,880 the people that left the brotherhood. 627 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,440 And some of them are still together, maybe going to 628 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,239 Starfall with Edrick Dane. Shout out to our Edrick Dane 629 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,719 episode read from recently. But I don't know that we can 630 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,440 call them a group as a whole, but they are the members that 631 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,239 left there is, you know, we can call them a group in that sense, 632 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,159 but I don't know that they're a group in that they're all 633 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,000 together. They're ironically actually 634 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,719 following remnants of the Bloody Mummers. 635 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,560 The salt pans raid, as I said before, was done by Rorge 636 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,880 wearing the Hound's helmet, which good, because they wanted 637 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,560 to kill the Bloody Mummers. That's part of bringing justice 638 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,280 to the Riverlands is getting rid of those folk. 639 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,639 We already, we saw that long ago when Barrack was alive, they 640 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,800 would definitely take on the Bloody Mummers whenever they 641 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,280 could. So it's notable that people see 642 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,480 it that way because it's important for us readers to be 643 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,560 kept abreast of what the rumors are. 644 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,400 We know basic truths here, but it's important to know what 645 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,120 other people think, that they think that there's a stone heart 646 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,080 and a barrack out there. And I don't know what would 647 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,440 convince them that there is no barrack. 648 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,840 It might just be a matter of time. 649 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,880 And like they go, a year passes and they haven't seen him again. 650 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,400 No one's reported him. They might start to be like, OK, 651 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,760 maybe Barrack isn't around anymore. 652 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,400 Maybe something happened to him. Maybe he died and we just as 653 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,440 news of him just never comes again. 654 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,680 On the other hand, someone could tell stories and say Barrack did 655 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,680 this. Barrack did that, just like how 656 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,080 Randall Tarley is making up stories about how it was the 657 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,600 Brotherhood that sacked Saltpans. 658 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:43,080 So lies can go a long way here. Propaganda from either side 659 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,640 could make a difference and we know that that was a big deal. 660 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,480 When Arthur Dayne defeated the Kingswood Brotherhood, it was 661 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,480 partly because he turned the small folk against them. 662 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,320 And that's addressed here. It says Lord Tarley will never 663 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,680 catch Barrick and the Brotherhood as long as the small 664 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,280 folk are on their side. If the small folk are on his 665 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,760 side, on Tarly's side, then he's got a huge advantage. 666 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,640 But Tarly winning over the small folk, that's not his strong 667 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,720 suit, is it? And as we said before, he's not 668 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:17,720 even working on it anymore. So yeah, I I do wonder what 669 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:21,480 about how many people left? We know names of people who 670 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,480 left, but we don't have numbers. We do know that the 671 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,720 Brotherhood's numbers swelled pretty substantially during the 672 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,400 earlier portions before Stoneheart. 673 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,160 Now we know that her leading them in a darker direction. 674 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,400 Some people left, but we really don't have numbers. 675 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,480 We a don't have a total picture of what their numbers are, let 676 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,200 alone what their numbers dropped to afterwards. 677 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,200 But it should still be pretty substantial. 678 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,520 I mean, we're told that Tarly has hanged dozens of them well, 679 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,200 and they're still operating as they were before. 680 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,840 It doesn't seem to have slowed them down. 681 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,240 Like they still killed Ryman Frey after that, so or during 682 00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,280 that, you know, so it's seems like they might have more 683 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,720 numbers than it seems. But like, like a lot of 684 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,760 revolutionary cells, they aren't foolish enough to all be in the 685 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,800 same place at the same time so that they can't all be captured 686 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,200 all at once. Like they can't give their end. 687 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,240 They can't make it that easy for their enemies to to end the 688 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:19,360 whole group. What is a revenant? 689 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,760 Let's talk about that concept. The title of this episode 690 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,840 includes that term. I've been throwing that term 691 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,800 around with relation to her for about as long as we've been 692 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,240 doing this show, and here's our chance to discuss it in a little 693 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,840 more detail. First of all, a quote from 694 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,960 Thoros. Lightning comes and goes and 695 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,480 then is seen no more. So too with men. 696 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,880 Lord Barracks. Fire has gone out of this world, 697 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,880 I fear. A grimmer shadow leads us in his 698 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,680 place. A grimmer shadow. 699 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,840 So he's referring to Barrack as a shadow also cuz grimmer 700 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,400 shadow, they're both shadows. He was just a less grim shadow 701 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,480 and they're both undead. So fairpoint right? 702 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,920 I guess that works that. And that's of course part of 703 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,120 Thoros issue here is he believes all this is the work of Rellore 704 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,720 and he can't leave as long as that's the key. 705 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:12,400 He's the one whose action raised Barrack and then that in turn 706 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,800 raised Stoneheart. So he's he's got to see it 707 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,320 through. Now in many real life traditions 708 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,200 the term ghost and revenant are interchangeable. 709 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,280 Not always. It's often though. 710 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,680 Unfinished business. It isn't always justice. 711 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,840 That's a very common 1 though. Sometimes it's just, you know, 712 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,600 something incomplete. The the being the person was 713 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,600 trying to do something really important to them and maybe they 714 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:40,800 died in the process of that or someone stopped them in some 715 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,080 tragic way. George inverting this trope a 716 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,400 bit with Barrick was that he became even more about justice 717 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,040 after his death, but not justice for himself, justice for 718 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,800 everyone else. It was he would put himself last 719 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,480 almost in that. And his and justice, of course, 720 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,240 is, is stretched a bit to include things like a right to 721 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,640 eat, you know, which I think a lot of us would say, OK, 722 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,120 fairpoint, you know, a starving person is going to ignore 723 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,320 justice, right, Because we're going to ignore the law because 724 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,160 survival is more important than obeying the law to 99% of 725 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,280 people. And I wouldn't argue that they 726 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,560 have a a burden to follow the law when their life is on the 727 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,840 line in such a circumstance. So I think that which is kind of 728 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,680 gets to a greater point about why everyone needs to eat. 729 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,680 So, but with Stoneheart, it's of course not that, you know, she's 730 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:29,800 not trying to feed the small folk. 731 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,600 As far as we know, it's not about justice, it's about 732 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,040 vengeance now. So a lot of ghosts or revenants, 733 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,920 when their purpose is complete, they go away, they end they're 734 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,040 they can be at rest, whether it's someone else has to do it 735 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,880 for them, like a ghost that haunts a house. 736 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,440 The ghost isn't going to finish the job. 737 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,640 They're just a tortured soul stuck on the in the plane of 738 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,560 existence where they first existed rather than passing on 739 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,440 to the afterlife. So someone else has to solve 740 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,560 that problem for them, whether it's proper burial or bringing a 741 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,400 murderer to justice. Sometimes the revenant actually 742 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,280 goes after the person that did this. 743 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,200 So there's a lot of variations on this around many different 744 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,440 traditions, around many different cultures all around 745 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,720 the world, but there are a lot of overlaps in commonality, 746 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,400 whether you're talking about revenants slash ghosts from like 747 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,280 Japan or. South Africa or you know, Native 748 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,920 Americans. It's just there's a lot of 749 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,200 overlap with what people believe. 750 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,440 Like there's just common enough beliefs that the dead can 751 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,600 return, spirits, souls, things like that. 752 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,080 Those are ubiquitous beliefs across a lot of cultures. 753 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,920 Even if there's pretty substantial differences in how 754 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,320 those beliefs manifest. The baseline is similar. 755 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,000 There's some sort of life after death or some sort of way our 756 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,760 bodies or spirits, whatever continue. 757 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,240 It's all related, right? So back as far as 4000 BC, 758 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,400 humans have unearthed the graves of much older humans from 6000 759 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,000 plus years ago that show anti revenant measures ways to keep 760 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,200 the corpse from rising, like rocks placed on top of a body 761 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,760 just to keep it from, you know, to keep it down, you know, or 762 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,760 like mesh wire above the ground or things like that. 763 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,320 Some of these are for anti vampirism things, but they're 764 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,040 all related in that sense. It's just preventing the undead 765 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,560 from coming back. They're in Roman literature, 766 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,480 Revenants are in Roman literature, they're in Polish 767 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,480 literature, they're in Celtic folklore. 768 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,200 You can't really say Celtic literature 'cause there isn't 769 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,640 much of that written down from back then. 770 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,000 Celtic folklore is written down now quite a bit, but you know, 771 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,840 back then not so much in the in Norse there there's the concept 772 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,760 of the drow gear. There was a drow gear in the 773 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,680 movie The Northman. They the other name for Norse 774 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,920 name for the undead is an apterganger, which just means 775 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,760 again Walker. So it's like, hey, it's walking 776 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,680 again after death. The movie Revenant with Leonardo 777 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,400 DiCaprio is based on a book called Revenant, a novel of 778 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,160 revenge. Yeah, there you go. 779 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,240 Now, of course, that movie is not based on a dead person. 780 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,600 It's but it's based on a person left for dead. 781 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,880 So it's kind of symbolic or metaphorical. 782 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,920 And this person comes back and, you know, puts things to write 783 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,760 in a sense. So this raises the, pun 784 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,720 intended, an important question. Stoneheart doesn't go into 785 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,840 battle. She hasn't been killed 786 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,320 repeatedly like Barrick was. We talked about that before in 787 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,200 relation to memories. But what about just can she? 788 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,120 Can she, if she is killed somehow, could she rise again? 789 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,280 I assume so since Barrett kept doing it. 790 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,400 But it wasn't Barrett rising on his own, it was Thoros. 791 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,040 Like reinvigorating him somehow. She would give him the kiss of 792 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,560 life again. He didn't just stand back up on 793 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,320 his own. He had to have Thoros bring him 794 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,960 back. Thoros said he wouldn't bring 795 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,280 her back when Harwin first asked, but has he changed his 796 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,120 mind now that he's seen what happened? 797 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,240 Now that she's leading them and has them on a new mission? 798 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,920 Would he still be like, no, I'm not ring bringing her back. 799 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,880 I think maybe he's changed his mind and this time he would. 800 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,480 But that's an interesting conundrum. 801 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,640 An interesting question. Maybe Thoris will be just like, 802 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:16,840 Nope, let's just let her be at rest. 803 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,040 That's we're done with that. The concept of a lich is 804 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,920 somewhat overlapped here too. The word lich derives from old 805 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,800 English. It just means corpse really. 806 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,480 But in fantasy is where liches are a lot more common fantasy 807 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,560 fiction, you know, like things like stranger things, but 808 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,880 obviously well before that too. The idea is basically a sorcerer 809 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,520 or wizard, some sort of magic user who makes themselves undead 810 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,560 in order to achieve immortality. They can't make themselves 811 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,160 living immortal, so they go undead, immortal. 812 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,360 When this is generally done via sacrificing your soul or your 813 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,560 spirit, that's kind of the undertone of it all. 814 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,320 Which is kind of the opposite here. 815 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,080 Barrett gave his soul to cattle and he didn't sacrifice it. 816 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,640 He passed it on. It's not his soul. 817 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,640 It's, I mean, it's for lack of a better term, It's whatever was 818 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,800 keeping him walking around, whatever power, whatever that 819 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,360 you call that semi immortal. We also have the term lich yard 820 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,440 used in A Song of Ice and Fire, which is not, you know, just a 821 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,120 Westerosi thing. That's a real term that's been 822 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,400 around. It isn't really used anymore, 823 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,920 but it just means graveyard. So nothing, nothing special 824 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,240 there. There's also lich gates in the 825 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,760 real world and that's just, that's an old concept. 826 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,640 It isn't really around anymore, but maybe it is in some places. 827 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,720 Maybe it's not so much in the Western world. 828 00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:35,880 I think because it's where a body is kept before burial. 829 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:41,960 Now we keep those in the morgue. So it's it's and it's also where 830 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,520 if there's a funeral procession entering a cemetery, it's the 831 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,560 gate they would enter by. This is where the procession 832 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,520 enters the cemetery. A broken brotherhood. 833 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,160 Yeah, at one point, Thoros calls them that. 834 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,360 He's like, yeah, we're a broken brotherhood. 835 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,400 Now he's lamenting what they used to be, that their purpose 836 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,080 isn't what it used to be. Their leadership has changed. 837 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,080 Their day-to-day living has gotten a lot harder. 838 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,720 Yeah. Here's a memorable quote we've 839 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:10,280 quoted before, because it's a great quote to quote Thoros to 840 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,480 Brienne Quoth. I remember justice. 841 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,240 It had a pleasant taste. Justice was what we were about 842 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:22,080 when Barrick LED us, or so we told ourselves. 843 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,280 We were kingsmen, Knights and heroes. 844 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,600 But some Knights are dark and full of terror. 845 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,320 My lady. War makes monsters of us all. 846 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,160 Brienne's follow up is so you're monsters and she's no, we're 847 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,160 human. He's very quick to, he's like, 848 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,040 look, it's making us monsters, but we're that way because we're 849 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,200 human. We were transitioned to that 850 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,320 because of what we've experienced, not because of what 851 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,720 we chose. I mean, some of it's choice, but 852 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:54,480 most of it is, you know, trying to be good and the the path of 853 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,760 good leading to this war made monsters of them all. 854 00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,680 Before Stoneheart came along, he would have said something 855 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,760 similar, maybe with a little more optimism, maybe with a 856 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,400 little more of his faith powering his energy behind all 857 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,800 this. But the sentiment would still be 858 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,080 pretty similar. When they were helping peasants, 859 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,320 they could at least feel good about themselves. 860 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,520 They were helping somebody. This is this is just being part 861 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,000 of the murder squad is this isn't the same thing, right? 862 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,440 It changes you even when you begin as the good guy just going 863 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,120 around killing people. That disregard for life and lack 864 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,560 of nuance and all that. It's just yeah, you can't be who 865 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,120 you were if you're doing that. I don't know if y'all caught the 866 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,920 word play here from Thoros. If you you certainly didn't if 867 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,440 you were listening to the audio book. 868 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,200 He says we were kings, men, Knights and heroes, but some 869 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:39,520 Knights are dark and full of terror. 870 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,400 He says Knights with AK, as in some Knights ordained in the 871 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,240 light of the Seven, or in the case of the Knights of the 872 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:49,560 Hollow Hill under the lore. So he's saying, yeah, even 873 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,520 Knights who swear holy vows and begin their lives as good people 874 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,840 and set out to do good and honor and justice, they can end up 875 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,080 like this with the right circumstance or the wrong 876 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,840 circumstances. I was perusing the westeros.org 877 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,000 forums and found a great take from user Curled Finger. 878 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,760 Thanks Curled Finger. Who said this of the BWB? 879 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,360 They are the stifled outrage of the people in villages and 880 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,520 castles. They are the embodiment of all 881 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,560 the hope left in the Midlands of a continent decimated by war 882 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,920 facing winter. Well said, well said. 883 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,640 And I agree with that. I couldn't put it better. 884 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,160 Very succinct. And yeah, even more under 885 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:26,240 Stoneheart. They're like that. 886 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,920 They are under Barrick. It was more of a righteous 887 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,720 outrage. This is vengeance again. 888 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,560 It's just, it's more vindictive. It's still somewhat righteous, 889 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,520 but it's a much darker version of it. 890 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,200 It's not the kind that you would want to live under afterwards. 891 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,280 It's a temporary thing. What Barrack was trying to do 892 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,000 was something that you would carry forward, even in 893 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,360 peacetime, you would want to do as Barrack did. 894 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,080 But this is, well, war makes mantras of us all, and we're 895 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,000 seeing that through. This includes some nobility too, 896 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,560 by the way. There are, it's not just the 897 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,280 Knights and some small folk and people who aren't Lords and 898 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:05,400 ladies that have been supporting Barrick and like Ladies Mallwood 899 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,800 for example, Right, That was, that's a big one, probably the 900 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,720 most notable name we can point to for certain. 901 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:14,040 We have suspicions that other Lords, especially in the 902 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,960 Riverlands, have been helping the Brotherhood. 903 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,520 How does this impact their support of the Brotherhood? 904 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,920 On one hand, if they know who that is, if they know it's 905 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,200 Catlin, they might be more likely to do something because 906 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,560 that's she was unjustly murdered. 907 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,680 Her story is tragic. And you know, it's the kind of 908 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,680 thing that a lot of nobility would would stand up for. 909 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,920 You know this because they see the life of a noble lady like 910 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,560 Catelyn is very important that it's, it's an offense when 911 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,760 something like this happens. So but, but is she still with 912 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,040 them? This is this is the kind of 913 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,800 thing we don't know whether we know that Angai and and Edrick 914 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,840 and some others left, but it's implied that others are no 915 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,920 longer helping the Brotherhood. But we don't know whether Lady 916 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,640 Smallwood is one of those who was left or maybe she's doubled 917 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,360 down on her support. Who knows? 918 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:07,680 You know, maybe she's all about it now. 919 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,760 Like actually, I like this angrier, more vindictive, 920 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,560 bloodier version of the brotherhood. 921 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,880 She might actually like that, you know, because she really 922 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,040 hates the phrase also, or something like that, or the 923 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,760 Lannisters. So Callan's never any sort of 924 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,520 war leader, let alone an outlaw. This is a new life for her. 925 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,960 Berrick it wasn't quite as different because, I mean, he 926 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,200 was chosen for this mission because he was someone that had 927 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,160 experience. He's a knight. 928 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,640 He had fought in war. He had learned how to be a 929 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,520 warrior, which means learning how to fight ambushes and 930 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,000 learning how to deal with ambushes and scouting and all 931 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,920 these other things that were not part of Catlin's upbringing or 932 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,680 her adult experience. But when she got attacked on the 933 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,000 High Road by the mountain clans while trying to take Tyrion to 934 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,800 the Erie, that was probably the first time she was in a fight, 935 00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:04,360 like up close, where she was a direct target of the people in 936 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,000 the battle. Other than that, she watched the 937 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,600 battle of the Stone Mill from atop River Runs walls, which was 938 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,120 actually after this, and she wasn't her direct participant, 939 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:17,240 she's just watching from the walls. 940 00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,280 So I think that's it. I don't think she has any other 941 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,960 combat experience except for what she's since acquired with 942 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,760 the Brotherhood, which doesn't involve her wielding sword. 943 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,120 But it probably does involve her learning things about ambushes 944 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,680 and tactics and how to run A outlaw cell or an outlaw 945 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,920 organization and all the things that go with that. 946 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,680 You know, keeping people separate, communication, spying, 947 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,320 all the different things that they're engaged with all over 948 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,640 the river lands. That all became her 949 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,920 responsibility. And that's kind of interesting, 950 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,000 isn't it, that they, she's a much different kind of leader, 951 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,280 yet it's still somewhat straightforward why they follow 952 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,000 her. You know, she's a lady. 953 00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,560 She's the wife of the man that sent them out in the first 954 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,320 place. And her story is just so tragic. 955 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,880 They all it's just the kind of thing that demands justice. 956 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,880 What happened to her, even if you have nothing to do with it, 957 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,560 You hear that and you go, damn, that was really unfair. 958 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:13,360 That's really the phrase violated guess, right? 959 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,640 That's awful, right? She's the victim of that. 960 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,680 So and her and everybody knows all her children have been 961 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,160 killed, even though that's not accurate. 962 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,640 She has lost children and she has that. 963 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,200 She's dealing with those feelings even though it's not 964 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,320 true, which is still pretty heavy. 965 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,320 She perceives it as truth. So it's very different. 966 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,600 Here's Brienne waking up, coming to after being captured and and 967 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,680 kind of finding out what her predicament is. 968 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,200 It's it's pretty interesting quote. 969 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:43,280 Renly stood behind the girl, pushing his black hair out of 970 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,480 his eyes. Not Renly Gendry. 971 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,600 Milady means for you to answer for your crimes. 972 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,640 Milady the wine was making her head spin. 973 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,640 It was hard to think Stoneheart is. 974 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,760 Is that who you mean? Lord Randall had spoken of her 975 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,000 back at Maidenpool. Lady Stoneheart. 976 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,280 Some call her that, Some call her other things. 977 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,240 The Silent Sister, Mother Merciless, the Hang Woman. 978 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,360 That is an implication. Obviously we know what those 979 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,920 names imply. The killing, the the vengeance, 980 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,760 the some version of justice. But the implication that I'm 981 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,080 getting out here isn't these different nicknames. 982 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,280 It's how quickly she seems to have acquired them. 983 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,560 Her reputation is spread very quickly because, well, it's 984 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,080 quite a story, isn't? It's this, this being this 985 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:42,040 mysterious, murderous woman who came from nowhere that most 986 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,400 people don't know who she is. Very few people do. 987 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,160 It's something that the readers know a lot better than the 988 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,360 people in the world. But Gendry has seen a lot of 989 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,000 this. Gendry knows who she is and he's 990 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,200 listing off all these nicknames. So he has seen some of this. 991 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,600 He he doesn't have those nicknames for nothing. 992 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,040 These are not just rumors. We know she's been hanging 993 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,160 people. That's a fact. 994 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,640 So he's a valuable member of the Brotherhood. 995 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,880 So he's got a little, maybe gained a little bit of clout 996 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,360 within the organization because he's their might be their only 997 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:12,600 blacksmith or at least one of them. 998 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,000 So she's got 4 nicknames already. 999 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,440 It's a pretty good nicknames, right? 1000 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,640 Randall Tarley has caused him a lot of problems. 1001 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,560 As I said before, she's he's hanged quite a few of them, but 1002 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,720 no big names. As far as we know, there weren't 1003 00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,640 any names we recognize have been hanged by him. 1004 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,120 It wouldn't be surprised if he's a bit megorish with his methods, 1005 00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,920 you know, meaning that he's executing people that really 1006 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:36,240 don't have that much to do with it. 1007 00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:38,080 Maybe they just have a tangential relationship with the 1008 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,320 Brotherhood. Maybe they were in the same 1009 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,320 village that the Brotherhood got some food from. 1010 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,960 They may not have even helped or participated in that. 1011 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,560 But hey, you're in the village where this food was given to the 1012 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:48,760 Brotherhood. You must be guilty. 1013 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,040 So of course, with with things like that, how is anyone going 1014 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,720 to win over the loyalty of the small folk when they're doing 1015 00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:57,240 that kind of thing? Yeah. 1016 00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:01,240 Randall Tarly, he's good at killing and soldiering and and 1017 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:06,600 fighting, but this aspect of the campaign kind of eludes him and 1018 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,000 but again, irrelevant. He's no longer part of the 1019 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:09,840 campaign. He's moved on. 1020 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,320 But it still left them with all these things. 1021 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,480 It's still his time. Hunting them had a big impact on 1022 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,800 who they were and and how they operate now. 1023 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,720 Remember what Tywin did? This is a similar thing. 1024 00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:24,040 Tywin hanged Mashahedel. Masha Heddle, if you recall, was 1025 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,120 is the proprietor of the end of the crossroads. 1026 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,440 She had nothing to do with Tyrion getting seized by 1027 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,760 Catelyn. She in fact tried to stop it. 1028 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,080 She's like, don't stop, don't do this here. 1029 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,560 But because it happened at the end of the crossroads, she's 1030 00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,120 responsible. So Tywin hanged her. 1031 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,520 Tyree is exactly that sort of man. 1032 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,000 He would do the same thing he would like OK, you were 1033 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,440 connected to this even though it wasn't through your own actions. 1034 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,320 You're going to die. So yeah, this is this is what we 1035 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,480 saw him doing at Maidenpool when he was justing out justice. 1036 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,880 He had similar thing like he his versions of justice were 1037 00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:00,920 extremely brutal, extremely harsh and probably not as 1038 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,240 effective as they could be. Now Gendry's identity as a side 1039 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,400 topic here, what a thing for them to learn about whether it's 1040 00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:10,920 Stoneheart learning or everybody or whatever. 1041 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,440 The son of the king of their original mission. 1042 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,760 You see that with with Brienne briefly thinking it's Renly, 1043 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,040 like wait, that's not Renly, it's Gendry. 1044 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,200 But damn, he looks like Renly that maybe they haven't really 1045 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,920 noticed that part of it that he looks so much like Robert. 1046 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,360 I don't know a lot of them maybe didn't even have that 1047 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,480 familiarity with what Robert looked like, but they are they 1048 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,280 always talk about how they were they were King's men. 1049 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,920 Maybe they don't talk about that so much anymore under Stonehart, 1050 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,440 but they they haven't forgotten he is that King's son. 1051 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,400 So, yeah, it's just, it's right there. 1052 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,080 They just, they just don't have the information. 1053 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,120 Neither does he him. Brentley doesn't know. 1054 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:46,680 I mean, Gendry doesn't know who he is. 1055 00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,280 So. So they did get a major target. 1056 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,520 We mentioned this briefly before, but let's go through it 1057 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,920 a little more in detail. The heir to the twins. 1058 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,880 Here's Jamie speaking to Walder Rivers. 1059 00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,680 Has some. I'll befallen Sir Ryman. 1060 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,800 Hanged with all his party. Said Walder Rivers. 1061 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,920 The Outlaws caught them two leagues South of Fairmarket. 1062 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,400 Dondarian. Him for Thoros or this woman's 1063 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,640 stone heart. Edwin Frey has a different 1064 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,760 theory that it's Black Walder. Black Walder is trying to climb 1065 00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,320 the ladder to be Lord of the twins. 1066 00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,920 Edwin Frey is not wrong to be wary of Black Walder, but he 1067 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,000 isn't guilty in this particular case. 1068 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,880 And you can still see them blaming things on Donderian. 1069 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,040 They still, of course, they don't know more evidence of 1070 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,320 that. So a few questions as we move 1071 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,040 our way into the second-half of this episode. 1072 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:42,640 Can they last like this as they keep getting darker and farther 1073 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,680 away from their original mission and living harder and harder and 1074 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,400 becoming more and more like broken men? 1075 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,240 Remember what Sandor called them when they were still under 1076 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:52,920 bearish control? He said you're the sorriest lot 1077 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:54,760 of broken men and outlaws, blah, blah blah blah blah. 1078 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,040 They're way worse now, right? I mean, they're they're more 1079 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:02,120 dangerous in some ways more violent, but they might also be 1080 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,840 sorrier in that regard. So yeah, how long can they go 1081 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,720 like this? How long can this persist? 1082 00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:12,200 It does not have the makings of a long term organization, does 1083 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,440 it? We rely on your support. 1084 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,720 We are a two person operation. 2 1/2 maybe. 1085 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,040 Hey folks, Sean is going to be coming back for the TV season 1086 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,360 and that's who we are. So we, like I said, we rely on 1087 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,120 y'all. We wouldn't be here without you 1088 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,400 and we wouldn't be able to do this. 1089 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,480 So if you want to support us, there's a couple of different 1090 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,040 ways. The main one of course is 1091 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,960 Patreon. You go there and you get bonus 1092 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,640 episodes, you get a access to our scripts and notes, you can 1093 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,600 get a shout outs and things like that, extra news from us, 1094 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,800 insider stuff, voting on episodes, all sorts of things. 1095 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,680 We try to give back as much as we can make that worth your 1096 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,840 while, in addition to just the knowledge that you're supporting 1097 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,680 the show that you watch or listen to on a regular basis. 1098 00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,360 So very much, we would appreciate that and very much 1099 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,440 needed. History of westeros.com is our 1100 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:02,840 website, but you can also go straight to 1101 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,920 patreonitspatreon.com/history of Westeros. 1102 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,800 There's a great Audible holiday promotion going on right now. 1103 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,000 I listen to lots of audio books. Audible is my main platform for 1104 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,760 that. One book a month for the 1105 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,360 subscription fee is pretty solid. 1106 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,760 It's a low price for a book that I get hours of listening out of. 1107 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,480 I do use audible to re listen to A Song of Ice and Fire. 1108 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,640 I am currently on a re listen and I'm currently in A Feast for 1109 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:31,560 Crows. I'm pretty early in it, maybe 1110 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,120 like chapter 8 or so, and enjoying it as much as always 1111 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,120 learning new things, remembering old things, brushing myself up. 1112 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,120 It's great. But they have a promotion. 1113 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:44,320 Like I said, right now if you sign up for Audible during the 1114 00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,360 end of before the end of 2026 or sorry, end of 2025, it's only 1115 00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,360 $0.99 for the first three months and you could theoretically just 1116 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,760 take those three months and then bail. 1117 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,080 I don't recommend that because the deal stays good afterwards, 1118 00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,040 even though it's more, but you could absolutely get 3 books for 1119 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,040 $3 across three months and just call it, call it a day. 1120 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,240 You can also start with a free trial. 1121 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,480 If you sign up on Audible and start with a trial, you get a 1122 00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,040 free book as well. So you could get quite a lot out 1123 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,960 of this, up to four, maybe 5 books for only about $3 and 1124 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,240 that's it. If you do stay on and become a 1125 00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,800 regular subscriber, that's great too. 1126 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,600 You'll enjoy a lot of great books, a lot of great Audible 1127 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,680 books out there. It's becoming more and more 1128 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,200 common. Almost every book becomes an 1129 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,240 audio book these days. And hey, when you're on the go, 1130 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,000 it's a great way to to still be reading or listening, you know, 1131 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,520 I prefer to sit down and read, but just can't always do that. 1132 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,280 Here's a few questions from y'all history of Westeros from 1133 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:39,800 Tony Sled says. What do you think of Lady 1134 00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,040 Mormont's role will be going forward? 1135 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,600 And Tito's Blackwood for that matter. 1136 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:43,920 Oh, interesting question. Yeah. 1137 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,200 Lady Mormont, are we talking about? 1138 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,240 Liana Mormont, Are we talking about one of the Others? 1139 00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:51,800 Because we have Mage Mormont? Yeah, I. 1140 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,440 Think they're talking about Mage. 1141 00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,320 They're talking about the idea that Rob's administrative 1142 00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,240 Council is still at large. Yeah. 1143 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,840 Well, I would certainly recommend our episode on Rob, 1144 01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,320 the Riddle of Rob's will for a lot of that. 1145 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,040 But yeah, I think that there's still a lot of loyalty there. 1146 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,840 They're lying low because their opportunity isn't there. 1147 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,920 But at the same time. Some of them may have learned 1148 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,560 about Rickon, that Rickon is alive and that Manderly is doing 1149 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,640 his thing. Manderly would want to tell 1150 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,640 other people that he perceives as Stark loyalists about this 1151 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:30,560 'cause he would want help and he would want to build that group, 1152 01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,440 build this resistance group, not just he doesn't want to do it by 1153 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,240 himself. Right? 1154 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,560 So Taito's Blackwood could be involved in this, but he's a 1155 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,440 little distant from the North, obviously. 1156 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,720 I think he's more likely to be aligned with the Brotherhood, 1157 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,600 especially if they're going to start targeting things like 1158 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,760 Jamie's party that he sent with Sir Forley, pressed her to lead 1159 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,040 Edmure Tully and Jane Weschling to casture the Rock, for 1160 01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,120 example. Widely theorized that that group 1161 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,760 will be ambushed, something we'll talk about a little bit in 1162 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,280 the second-half as well. So yeah, Tito's Blackwood, very 1163 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,240 honorable, very loyal. He just had to had to surrender 1164 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,000 because he had no choice. He was be completely beaten and 1165 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,760 he was being threatened. His family's being threatened. 1166 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,040 Like what's he going to do? He can only stay loyal. 1167 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,240 He can only go that far. But given the chance, I think 1168 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,680 he'll come right back. That said, winter is coming and 1169 01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,880 Titos and a lot of the Riverlands, they are more 1170 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,520 distracted by the need to find food to get through the winter 1171 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,600 than they might be concerned with the war. 1172 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,240 Or maybe it's just two things pulling them in separate 1173 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,400 directions. So they've got a lot on their 1174 01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,960 plates and, well, they don't have enough on their plates, 1175 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,160 food wise, so that's why they have to worry about that. 1176 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,280 Urias Tosh says Stoneheart gets captured by an enemy. 1177 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,040 What happens then? I can see Kyburn having her 1178 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:51,080 studied in his dungeons. Yeah, that's an interesting 1179 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:52,280 thought. I definitely hadn't thought 1180 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,200 about Kyburn. Yeah, 'cause he's obviously 1181 01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:59,880 studied Gregor and he's going down that necromantic path of 1182 01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:02,320 sorts. So yeah, he would be very 1183 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,160 curious to get his hands on her. Whether he what? 1184 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,320 I don't think it'll happen, but man, he would want to. 1185 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,400 He really wants to experiment on her. 1186 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,360 He's like, wow, what's going on here? 1187 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,040 Tell me. I need to learn more. 1188 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:14,960 Great thought. Your eyes, Tosh. 1189 01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:19,800 Very creepy though. A Storm of Swords appreciation. 1190 01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,960 Let's talk about that briefly. At the beginning I mentioned how 1191 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,040 her appearance, I don't mean her physical appearance, I mean her 1192 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,200 just popping up in the story in a book full of surprises and 1193 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:34,760 climaxes and payouts is arguably one of the least expected, if 1194 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,400 not the least expected. I don't necessarily mean the 1195 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,240 most shocking the OR the most impactful because that's 1196 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:46,000 probably the Red Wedding, but just in terms of out of nowhere, 1197 01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:51,560 like you might imagine Thoros bringing her back because Aria 1198 01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,480 asked about bringing Ned back. And so you might have might have 1199 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,880 entered your mind at some point, but you wouldn't have been able 1200 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,840 to guess that Barrack could pass it all. 1201 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,840 And I don't think that was completely out of nowhere. 1202 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,200 The idea that Barrack could, you know, pass it, pay it forward, 1203 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,560 give himself up for her that we had no idea that was possible. 1204 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,560 Tyrion killing Tywin, you can kind of see it coming, like not 1205 01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,400 far ahead necessarily, but when he's in his room with the 1206 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,960 crossbow, you know, like he's kind of like, OK, I can see 1207 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:21,640 where this is going. He might actually kill him. 1208 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,280 You don't know for sure it's going to happen when you're 1209 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,800 reading it the first time, but it isn't a complete surprise 1210 01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:28,960 when he pulls that trigger. Like, oh wow, it really did 1211 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,240 happen. But you you've perceived the 1212 01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:35,480 possibility by that point. The Red Viper losing was pretty 1213 01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:40,000 surprising and unexpected, not just in general, but it seems 1214 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,920 like he had won. He had seemed to have won, and 1215 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,720 then, oops, he didn't. So that's kind of up there. 1216 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,280 The Red Wedding, like I said, it's it's probably the most 1217 01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,680 shocking, the most out of the ordinary for an author to put in 1218 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,440 there in terms of a plot direction. 1219 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,640 But there's a lot of foreshadowing for it. 1220 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,760 You might have caught on and you could see the danger there. 1221 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,320 You might not have thought it would go that far, but with grey 1222 01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:04,440 winds warning and the the drums and the rain and so many other 1223 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,440 things, just the straightforwardness of Walder 1224 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,240 Frey's personality and his vindictiveness and his pride, 1225 01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:12,640 You might not have thought it would go that far, but you might 1226 01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,320 have seen something coming. Jamie losing his hand, that's up 1227 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,120 there. Because you really didn't see 1228 01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:18,760 that coming. Jamie didn't even even he. 1229 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:22,040 And Jamie's inner narrative pushes back against the idea of 1230 01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:23,560 what's about to happen. He's like, they're just trying 1231 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,880 to scare me. And you might believe him in 1232 01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,520 that moment. I mean, it's just one sentence. 1233 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,760 You're not sitting here scrutinizing every single every 1234 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:33,800 single thing that's said. And then the next sentence is, 1235 01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,600 oh, wow, that really did happen. So it does turn pretty quickly. 1236 01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,160 Joffrey's poisoning. It's up there too. 1237 01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,040 It's fairly sudden. I mean, you know, people want to 1238 01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:45,280 kill this kid. He's awful. 1239 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,080 But the actual moment that it happens is like, oh, there it 1240 01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,920 is. It's pretty sudden when it does 1241 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,240 happen, but it's still there's like he's coughing slowly and 1242 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,560 you can see he starts to choke and he's like, Oh my goodness, 1243 01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,520 this is happening. It isn't that he just drops 1244 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,080 dead. Sam killing another. 1245 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,920 That's pretty darn surprising. But that's not really climactic 1246 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,520 because it's like the first third of the book. 1247 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,320 So maybe that's a specious argument against how important 1248 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,680 it is, but it isn't. It's hard to call that 1249 01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,280 climactic. It's just a big, big moment. 1250 01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,000 Mormont's death is also pretty sudden, but the Nights Watch 1251 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,120 were dropping like flies at that time. 1252 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,800 Maybe the manner of it was a little surprising, but I don't 1253 01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,720 know. I I don't that it's not as big 1254 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,120 as Stoneheart to me. Cold hands. 1255 01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,040 All right, that's that's up there. 1256 01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,560 That's up there. Just whoa, who is this? 1257 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:35,320 And it especially because it's not Benjen. 1258 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,640 That was a pretty big follow up surprise. 1259 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,040 Stan is showing up at the wall. That's a pretty big one, too. 1260 01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,480 That's hard to see coming. Just all of a sudden his Knights 1261 01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,840 are charging at the Free folk. Like John is just chatting with 1262 01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:51,560 Mance and you're you're learning who Mance is. 1263 01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:54,360 You're distracted by this is the first time you've seen Mance on 1264 01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:56,680 screen, you know, or not the first time, but one of the first 1265 01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,680 times. And he's having this 1266 01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:01,240 conversation with John about different things. 1267 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,400 They're arguing and John's trying to figure out just how 1268 01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,040 much to tell him. And then all of a sudden, boom, 1269 01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,160 Stanis attacks. Yeah, that's, that's pretty 1270 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,480 surprising. And the, the, the last one I 1271 01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,400 have notated here, maybe I missed one or two 'cause there's 1272 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,640 just so many big climactic moments in the Storm of Swords 1273 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,360 Is the Littlefinger reveal that he's the one behind Santa's 1274 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,600 rescue. That's more of if you hadn't 1275 01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,760 figured that out, which at the time my first read, I hadn't, it 1276 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,480 was like, oh, of course, of course it's him, right. 1277 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,200 Like that, right. Of course it's Littlefinger. 1278 01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,160 But you don't go. Oh, of course Catelyn came back 1279 01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,560 as an undead revenant. Yeah, obviously that. 1280 01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:38,160 Of course that was going to. Nah, no one did that. 1281 01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:44,400 No one said that. The path of the hang woman. 1282 01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,720 Let's try to sketch out her movement somewhat after her 1283 01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,240 rise, ending with where we know her to be at the end of the 1284 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,640 books, which is with Brienne having LED Jamie into their 1285 01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,200 clutches. And that's somewhere between 1286 01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,040 River Run and the Twins. We don't exactly know where. 1287 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:01,240 Or, sorry, not River Run and the Twins. 1288 01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:05,000 River Run and Raven Tree Hall because it's after Jamie leaves 1289 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,440 Raven Tree Hall on his way back to River Run, where he is 1290 01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:12,360 accosted and and tricked into going off with her. 1291 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,880 It must have been a awkward moment if we're going back to 1292 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,680 the when she became their leader, many of the brotherhood 1293 01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,960 would have seen Barrick give his life for he would have they 1294 01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,440 would have witnessed this. They would have been standing 1295 01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:25,800 there going wait, what is he doing? 1296 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:30,600 And then he just flops on the ground as the life force leaves 1297 01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,120 him and she rises. Just what a strange thing to 1298 01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,400 witness. So they would know for sure. 1299 01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,360 There's no doubt he's gone. He's done. 1300 01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:40,440 They probably buried him. They had literally just seen the 1301 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,240 wolves running off. They know that these are bodies. 1302 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,080 They're, they're not going to like leave his body there. 1303 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,120 They probably wouldn't do that anyway, but especially not with 1304 01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:49,120 wolves in year round. They would. 1305 01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:50,480 They would give him a proper burial. 1306 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,080 Now, how exactly did she take charge? 1307 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,200 You know, she's not like she can't give some big speech, 1308 01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,720 right? I think it's just comes down to 1309 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,280 they fell into line because she's of the nobility. 1310 01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,280 She was sort of ordained by Barrick. 1311 01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,920 Like he's the he's their leader. And he passed this on to her. 1312 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,720 He sort of nominated her in a sense. 1313 01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,560 And Thoros followed immediately. And Thoros is kind of like the 1314 01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,439 de facto second in command, kind of the heart and soul of the 1315 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,359 whole organization. Even though they've gone so 1316 01:08:22,359 --> 01:08:23,920 dark, obviously he's seen it through. 1317 01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,279 And that alone encourages others to see it through. 1318 01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:29,040 I think I may have said that before, but Thoros is the most 1319 01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,560 recognizable leader of the Brotherhood these days, the one 1320 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:36,359 who is still somewhat human. I mean, human in, you know, I 1321 01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:40,080 don't mean that in a literal sense, 'cause obviously she's 1322 01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:41,680 not entirely human. That's not what I mean. 1323 01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,720 I mean like being a person, acting like with sympathy and 1324 01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,160 empathy and living, you know, not going not being a broken man 1325 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,160 or woman. Harwin was almost certainly one 1326 01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,240 of her biggest advocates. Harwin was was the son of the 1327 01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,600 master at horse at Winterfell. He grew up with Catelyn Stark as 1328 01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,840 the highest ranking woman in his life. 1329 01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,399 Only Ned Stark was higher. So he grew up with her as an 1330 01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:08,359 authority figure. And in Westeros, they teach you 1331 01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:11,600 to love the nobility, even if it isn't something that necessarily 1332 01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,840 comes naturally. They impart that. 1333 01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,600 And so she he probably had some pretty genuine love for her. 1334 01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:22,000 Maybe love isn't the right word, but dedication, devotion may be 1335 01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,960 better. So he was not unlikely one of 1336 01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:29,399 the people that quickly got behind her and encouraged others 1337 01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:31,840 to follow, you know, especially with Thoros doing the same. 1338 01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:37,040 And since he's seems to be her interpreter and, and always by 1339 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,240 her side, he's a Northman. So that might mean she trusts 1340 01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,200 him a little bit more. It sort of looks like he's in 1341 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,479 her inner circle, whatever that even means, along with Lem and 1342 01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:48,760 Jack be Lucky. And Lem has gone pretty dark and 1343 01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,720 Jack be Lucky is maybe the similar. 1344 01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,080 But she doesn't sleep and they have to. 1345 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:59,760 So her guard has to rotate at least somewhat because if she's 1346 01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:01,600 active 24/7, well, they can't be. 1347 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,840 So they have to. They have to go in shifts. 1348 01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,720 I guess. Now old Stones is when we first 1349 01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,760 see her, right with Merritt Frey, that's near there. 1350 01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,800 That's not terribly far South from the twins, probably just a 1351 01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,040 matter of maybe like a week at most, maybe, maybe quite a bit 1352 01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,360 less. So it's easy enough to guess she 1353 01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,920 was reborn downriver, right? The she tossed into the river. 1354 01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:24,280 She floats downriver her body. Then they find her there and 1355 01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:30,360 then they go South farther. Now Fair Market is roughly 1356 01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,360 equidistant downriver from there. 1357 01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,920 So you go the Twins, Old Stones downriver a bit, you get to Fair 1358 01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,360 Market, so roughly the same distance between the Twins and 1359 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:43,360 Fair Market, from Fair Market to Old Stones, and it's on the same 1360 01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:45,080 side of the Blue Fork. They're both on the West Bank of 1361 01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,120 the Blue Fork, so that kind of lines up. 1362 01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,400 Sir Lucius Vibran hunts them near Fair Market with no 1363 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,600 success. We're told she was seen at 1364 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:58,040 Hagsmire, which is where the headwaters of the Blue Fork is, 1365 01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,720 and it's near the town of Seven Streams, which is where Tom oh 1366 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,680 Sevens is, of course, from. Hagsmire is also where Rob 1367 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:10,120 announces his will and it's where a Chet is from, so kind of 1368 01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,480 an unsavory place there. Poor spot. 1369 01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:14,400 Black Walder also hunts them there. 1370 01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:16,440 He's he chases them there, but they get away. 1371 01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:21,800 They apparently have a good system for keeping an eye on the 1372 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,920 roads and the approaches, so they kind of always know when 1373 01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,600 someone's coming towards them. They know the land better than 1374 01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,360 anybody. They have people who live there 1375 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:33,320 their whole lives on their side, which is why having the common 1376 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,280 folk on your side is so, so vital when you're a resistance 1377 01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:40,080 organization. It's if I can get real world for 1378 01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:41,800 a minute. It's a huge part of how the 1379 01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,680 mafia operates and why they're so successful. 1380 01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:48,160 Very often they help the communities that they prey on in 1381 01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,800 order to win their support, even though they're also praying on 1382 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,880 them. They do enough good to make some 1383 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,760 people convinced that it's better than not having them, 1384 01:11:55,760 --> 01:12:01,560 that they're more good than bad. Rarely is that true, but it's 1385 01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,760 propaganda, it's marketing. You know, they are able to 1386 01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,400 convince people of this and you know, Pablo Escobar pulled that 1387 01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,560 off on a grand scale, but much smaller level criminals and drug 1388 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,600 dealers or what have you do similar things. 1389 01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:19,520 So, yeah. So it's it's interesting to 1390 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,920 think about that and and how important to having the common 1391 01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:23,200 folk is. If you don't have the common 1392 01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:27,840 folk, you have nothing in this when you are an outlaw or a 1393 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,680 resistance movement. Another time we're told 1394 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:36,440 Blackwalder chases her party is north of here and there. 1395 01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:38,960 He he chases them for a while, like it's quite a chase, like 1396 01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:40,520 several days, maybe even a week or two. 1397 01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,440 And he's constantly on their heels and they're constantly 1398 01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:46,960 trying to get stay ahead of him. They flee into the neck and he 1399 01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:51,560 does not follow them there. So because he's not stupid and 1400 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,000 because following them in the neck would be a bad idea, they 1401 01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,760 probably have the support of the craning men. 1402 01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:00,080 I mean, they're enemy is the enemy of the enemy is my 1403 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,920 friends. And they may not even be. 1404 01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,280 They may be friendly anyway because you know, it's 1405 01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:06,520 Stoneheart, it's the brotherhood, it's Ned Stark's 1406 01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,760 connection and all that. Anyone who's going after Frey is 1407 01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:13,240 is going to have an opportunity to win over the chronic men now. 1408 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:14,720 So that that's kind of what I mean by that. 1409 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,160 Not only not to mention Rob's will is probably in their 1410 01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:22,360 possession or was and as well as a lot of Rob's officers might 1411 01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,720 have either still be in the Neck or have passed through the Neck 1412 01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,760 and have spoken with Helen Reed, etcetera, etcetera. 1413 01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:31,560 So a number of reasons why Blackwalder was wise to not 1414 01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:35,480 follow them there. Generally speaking, all of the 1415 01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:39,240 sightings of her have been in the region of the twins. 1416 01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:43,000 She hasn't been seen terribly far away from there. 1417 01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:45,800 The Neck is about as far north as she's been seen, just a 1418 01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,200 southern portion of the Neck, presumably because no one 1419 01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:49,960 follows her in there. She doesn't have to go that deep 1420 01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:51,880 into the Neck because no one's going to follow her there. 1421 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,760 And then, you know, around old stones and around Fair Market, 1422 01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,960 none of these are that far from the twins, you know, maybe a 1423 01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,280 couple weeks at most. So, yeah, right before her 1424 01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,280 judgement and near hanging, Brienne is told that she's going 1425 01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,800 to meet Stoneheart pretty soon, but not yet because she went to 1426 01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:06,480 fair Market. And of course, that's, as I 1427 01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:08,160 explained earlier, that was to hang Ryman. 1428 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,280 Now, how did she know that they were there? 1429 01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:16,120 Well this is almost certainly a part of their intelligence 1430 01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,240 network. The most obvious is Tomos Evans. 1431 01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:22,680 Tomos Evans is at River Run, he was right there playing for 1432 01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:26,880 Ryman Frey when Jamie said you must go back to get the hell out 1433 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,720 of here. So maybe the Queen of Horrors 1434 01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,680 character informed the Brotherhood, or maybe Tomos 1435 01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,680 Evans, or maybe both. Because we are pretty sure that 1436 01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:41,320 the camp follower that was with Lord Bracken is is a Brotherhood 1437 01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:46,600 Without Banners member as well. She was explicitly so in prior 1438 01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,080 versions of the unpublished versions of the dragon before 1439 01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,680 the final version was written. Like some draft versions of it. 1440 01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,120 Hildy was absolutely a Brotherhood spy. 1441 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,760 Now she probably is, it just isn't explicit. 1442 01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,080 So we already have seen this element. 1443 01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:02,040 This is this is a an angle that they take. 1444 01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:07,040 They use camp followers, sex workers to get close to the 1445 01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:11,040 leaders of the of the Lannisters and the river Lords who were 1446 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:14,040 still on the side of them and like the phrase and all that to 1447 01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,480 get information, to get travel plans and things like that. 1448 01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:18,160 So this is almost straightforward. 1449 01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:24,720 Ryman was told to leave, kicked out in front of at least one spy 1450 01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,560 for the Brotherhood. So they knew exactly what was 1451 01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:28,000 going on there. So that that's pretty 1452 01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,640 straightforward. But but we've been told there's 1453 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:33,920 a lot of other hangings not of famous people. 1454 01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:38,040 Only Merritt and Peter Pimple and Ryman Frey, as far as we 1455 01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,200 know, are the only phrase they've hanged people with the 1456 01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:43,480 last name Frey that is, but they've hanged other Frey and 1457 01:15:43,480 --> 01:15:46,520 Lannister soldiers, household people, things like that. 1458 01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,840 Because otherwise we're to believe that she's gotten all 1459 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,120 these nicknames for just hanging Merritt and Peter Pimple. 1460 01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,720 Like because the Ryman hanging came after she had already 1461 01:15:55,720 --> 01:16:00,360 acquired 4 nicknames. So yeah, it, it seems like 1462 01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:01,640 there's been a lot of hanging going on. 1463 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,000 They just, George has no reason to describe every single one of 1464 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:05,360 them. There are people that whose 1465 01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:09,120 names we've never heard before. It's enough to imply it, and 1466 01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:10,920 most of her revenge will be against the phrase. 1467 01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:14,640 They're the most responsible, they're the most numerous, and 1468 01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:17,440 they're the closest to her. You know, physically located 1469 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,800 Lannisters are also fairly numerous and also not that far 1470 01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:22,240 away. And they are, of course, 1471 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:24,880 intertwined with the phrase. And she also hated them. 1472 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,040 First, she's hated the Lannisters for a lot longer than 1473 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:32,040 she hated the phrase because of, well, the whole brand trying to 1474 01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:35,120 murder brand thing, right? That's a pretty good reason, 1475 01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,800 especially when she's lied to by Littlefinger, to have even more 1476 01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:42,000 reason to hate them. But even with that lie taken out 1477 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:43,680 of the picture, even with Littlefinger's machinations 1478 01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:45,760 taken out of the picture, she still has plenty of reasons to 1479 01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:49,680 hate the Lannisters. And as I said before, she can't 1480 01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:51,640 really get her hands on any Boltons right now. 1481 01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:53,680 They're neither numerous nor close by. 1482 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:58,240 But it is a question for us. Will she go north? 1483 01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:02,080 And if she does, is that one of the big reasons why she's like, 1484 01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:05,200 OK, I've done enough to the phrase in Lannisters, let me get 1485 01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:07,040 at some Bolton's. They deserve that too. 1486 01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,560 Or maybe it's she goes N for some other reason. 1487 01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:12,960 But there's also the Bolton's. She's like, well, I can also, 1488 01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:14,680 there's multiple reasons for me to go north. 1489 01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:18,080 But it's also quite possible that the Bolton's will be out of 1490 01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,880 the picture before she goes there or she just won't go 1491 01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:22,920 there. That's also possible. 1492 01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:29,680 You must prove your faith. After hearing the arguments, 1493 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,240 Lady Stoneheart delivers her judgement on Brienne quote. 1494 01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:39,560 The thing that had been Catelyn Stark took hold of her throat 1495 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:45,280 again, fingers pinching at the ghastly long slash in her neck, 1496 01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,720 and choked out more sounds. Words are wind, she says. 1497 01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,960 The Northman told Brienne. She says that you must prove 1498 01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:58,200 your faith. The Northman is Harwin. 1499 01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:02,040 Brienne doesn't really know him, but we do. 1500 01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,440 She knows that Jamie and his army on the move by this point, 1501 01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,800 meaning Stonehart does. Of course, there's certainly 1502 01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:10,960 multiple spies in the region, as we've as we've said. 1503 01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:14,000 And of course there's multiple spies at River Run, not just in 1504 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,000 the region. So there's a lot of thinking and 1505 01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:18,520 planning and cunning ahead of time. 1506 01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,160 They're definitely a lot of planning ahead, you know, 1507 01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,520 getting ahead of what the Lannisters are going to do and 1508 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,680 ambushing them. Now, that said, they're 1509 01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,760 obviously beefing up security. There's been several frays 1510 01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:33,160 hanged as in the epilogue. It's like, hey, we brought, I 1511 01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:34,680 brought the ransom money. You're not. 1512 01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:35,480 Yeah. And they're they're like, yeah, 1513 01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:36,680 we weren't. We're not going to get away with 1514 01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:38,680 that one again, are we? They're not going to fall for 1515 01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,480 the old ransom trick again because we murdered you. 1516 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,480 So they aren't about that. They're not going to. 1517 01:18:44,480 --> 01:18:45,600 They're not going to get away with that. 1518 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,600 Also, any Frey travelling from place to place is probably smart 1519 01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,120 enough to travel with a bigger escort. 1520 01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:57,320 Now, Ryman Frey had 12 warriors with him, which isn't that many, 1521 01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:00,000 right? He's him and that's 13 guys, and 1522 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:04,920 it's kind of a stretch to call him a warrior, but they might 1523 01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:08,200 still underestimate how many men the Brotherhood can bring to 1524 01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:09,880 bear. Maybe not though, because that's 1525 01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:13,080 as we were saying earlier, it's hard to hard to get a feel for 1526 01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:14,160 how many people are in this group. 1527 01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,880 Nevertheless, this was also something they were good at, 1528 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:23,400 like even before Stoneheart ambushing and spying and all the 1529 01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,160 stuff, they were already quite adept at this. 1530 01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,440 So. So Stoneheart probably isn't the 1531 01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:29,760 one instilling this in them. She's just taking it over and 1532 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:33,240 making use of it, but adding to something she already knows. 1533 01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:34,760 I mean, she knows some things about River Run. 1534 01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,040 She knows some things about how the highborn think. 1535 01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,280 There's definitely something she's bringing to the table, but 1536 01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,440 a lot of it was already in place before she arrived on the scene. 1537 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:47,040 So Barrick and Stoneheart, they're they've lost some of 1538 01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:50,320 their humanity, some of what makes them human, but they don't 1539 01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:52,040 seem like they're less intelligent. 1540 01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,680 Like they still have the IQ level they had before, but maybe 1541 01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:59,680 not as much emotional IQI don't know how to, I don't know the 1542 01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:01,040 right terms for this, but I don't. 1543 01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:04,680 They seem like they're processing power. 1544 01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:09,040 Their logic is all still there, but some of their memories and 1545 01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:12,880 their emotional state, that's all different or at least 1546 01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:18,480 compromised. Now here is the confrontation. 1547 01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:23,120 Of the delivery of Stoneheart's verdict quote. 1548 01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:28,520 What does she want of me? She wants her son alive or the 1549 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,520 men who killed him dead. Said the big man. 1550 01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:35,040 She wants to feed the Crows like they did at the Red Wedding. 1551 01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:38,240 Fray's in Bolton's eye. We'll give her those as many as 1552 01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,080 she likes. All she asks from you is Jaime 1553 01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,720 Lannister. So that was Lem speaking. 1554 01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,880 She was referring to Harwin, but it was Lem who answered. 1555 01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,880 Lady Stoneheart has another form of power, which is that as scary 1556 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:54,760 as she is, as dark as she is, people hate the phrase more 1557 01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:57,040 probably, even though they're, you know, human. 1558 01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:02,360 And she is the avatar of this because she's both the prime 1559 01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,240 victim and prime hunter of the phrase. 1560 01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,400 So she hits the sympathetic argument on her side. 1561 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,400 She's got the unjustice argument on her side. 1562 01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,320 She's got the I'm the leader that's making this happen 1563 01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:18,200 argument on her side. Her very existence is a 1564 01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:20,960 testament to how big a crime the Red Wedding was. 1565 01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:24,520 It's almost like the gods have answered they're like this 1566 01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,440 shouldn't be this shouldn't be possible. 1567 01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:31,280 Yet it's clearly happening, and the only explanation is powers 1568 01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:37,600 beyond humanity, other beings, deities, powers from beyond have 1569 01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:42,240 taken a role here. And it's the easy answer is 1570 01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:45,440 because of the monstrosity that was the Red Wedding. 1571 01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:47,520 It was that much of an offense to the gods. 1572 01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,440 Guest right. Just it's that big a deal to 1573 01:21:50,440 --> 01:21:54,840 violate guest right on that scale with this much infamy. 1574 01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:57,760 I mean, it's just so big. Now, of course, Brienne resists. 1575 01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,240 She's honorable. She's not going to give up just 1576 01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,160 like nothing. She's got to put up a fight, at 1577 01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:06,920 least an argument if she can. But she doesn't really have much 1578 01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:08,800 choice, does she? She has to give in. 1579 01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:10,760 You know, she's like, no, I won't, I won't do this. 1580 01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:12,400 Jamie's innocent. I know he's innocent. 1581 01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:14,280 I've seen it. You know, it's person, my 1582 01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,960 personal judgement and his actions prove it. 1583 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,200 It's so tragic. We've seen inside Brienne's 1584 01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,400 head. I mean, she is more than 1585 01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:25,280 sincere. Here it is. 1586 01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,920 I I pulled the quote because it's it's it's kind of heart 1587 01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:33,600 wrenching just how devoted she is to this mission only to have 1588 01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:35,000 Stoneheart think she's betrayed it. 1589 01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,960 Yeah, here it is quote. She had spoken of Arya too, her 1590 01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:45,160 younger daughter, but Arya was lost, most likely dead by now. 1591 01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,400 Sansa though, I will find her, my lady. 1592 01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,080 Brienne swore to Lady Catlin's restless shade. 1593 01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,280 I will never stop looking. I will give up my life if need 1594 01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:00,120 be. Give up my honor, give up all my 1595 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:05,000 dreams, but I will find her. She would give up her honor. 1596 01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:09,720 This is Brienne. Like that's a huge like this is 1597 01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:13,560 number one on her list. This is more important than 1598 01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:17,440 killing Renly's murderers. Like she doesn't even think of 1599 01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:20,240 Renly in this moment. That's how big this is for her. 1600 01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:25,000 And the quote there, Brienne swore to Lady Catlin's restless 1601 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,200 shape, she doesn't know Stoneheart exists at this point. 1602 01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:30,400 This quote is from way earlier. Is this from like her first 1603 01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:33,160 chapter in A Feast for Crow? So well before she even knows 1604 01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:36,200 Lady Catlin's walking around. So that's that's a little clever 1605 01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,160 wording there by George. So we see this inside Brienne's 1606 01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:41,640 head. That's one of the things that 1607 01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:45,480 about the POV structure of of this whole series that gives us 1608 01:23:45,480 --> 01:23:49,080 surety on certain things, but we don't see inside Stoneheart's 1609 01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:52,760 head anymore. We used to when she was alive. 1610 01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:56,760 That makes her an unusual, interesting, unique POV. 1611 01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:00,840 She's the only POV character that's still walking around. 1612 01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:05,160 I can't say alive, but walking around, whose POV we don't have 1613 01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:07,160 any more. We lost the POV of a person 1614 01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:11,520 still walking around. George said no new POV's. 1615 01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:14,120 He could go back on that if he wants to. 1616 01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:15,200 Of course he can change his mind. 1617 01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:18,080 He didn't sign some contract saying I will never put a new 1618 01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,600 POV in. No of course not, he could go 1619 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,000 back to her. She's technically not a new POV, 1620 01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:28,920 right? It also raises questions about 1621 01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,400 John. Might that be the path for John 1622 01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:34,840 too? Will John cease to be APOV? 1623 01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:38,200 Not for the rest of the series, although that's possible too. 1624 01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,320 I kind of doubt that, but maybe temporarily. 1625 01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:43,960 As long as he's in Ghost, as long as it's his second life, as 1626 01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:47,520 long as he's in that state, we might not get his POV when he 1627 01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,760 comes back to his own body. Maybe we will. 1628 01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,840 That's just one possible way for George to to handle it. 1629 01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:54,520 For all we know, he hasn't even decided yet. 1630 01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,200 I hope he has, but that's a possibility. 1631 01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:00,480 Whatever's going on with Catelyn, with Stoneheart, we got 1632 01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:04,600 to try to see put that on John and see how it works. 1633 01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,600 You see how it fits. So Jamie is captured. 1634 01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,160 We know that much. It's seemingly straightforward 1635 01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,080 there. Kevin tells Cersei that he went 1636 01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,680 off with Brienne. For some reason. 1637 01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,640 Cersei is baffled by that, and Kevin probably was too. 1638 01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:22,520 They both don't have any idea why he did that, but we do. 1639 01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:24,960 We know that Brienne. We know exactly what Brienne 1640 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:29,040 said to him, that the Hound has Sansa, but he'll kill her, you 1641 01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,720 know, if you don't come. So he goes with and he's like, 1642 01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,120 well, you know, which is more proof that he's sincere about 1643 01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,040 helping Lady Catlin. He's sticking to his vow. 1644 01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:41,680 He wouldn't go off with her if he didn't care about fulfilling 1645 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:42,760 his vow. He's like, go, go ahead, go 1646 01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:43,840 ahead. Let the Hound kill Sansa. 1647 01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:45,840 I don't care. It's also, by the way, as an 1648 01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,760 aside, it's interesting that Brienne's focused on finding 1649 01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:52,880 Sansa had had given up on Arya. Stonhart hadn't given up on Arya 1650 01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:54,880 because the brother had had her in their possession. 1651 01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,560 So she's that's the one she's most concerned with because she 1652 01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:00,640 was lost in the Riverlands. She was like, OK, this is maybe 1653 01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:04,240 my best bet. So they both have a different 1654 01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:05,920 view of who the other is looking for. 1655 01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,200 But of course, Brienne actually doesn't know that they've 1656 01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:11,600 continued to look for Aria. Maybe she'll find that out. 1657 01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,480 Maybe they've told her more since she's been off screen. 1658 01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:20,760 Either way, though, like I just don't see either Brienne or 1659 01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:23,360 Jamie dying at the hands of the brother. 1660 01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:25,080 And I just don't see it. I don't think that's how it's 1661 01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:29,880 going to go. So first of all, how ungrateful 1662 01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:34,480 by the Brotherhood that they don't thank Jamie for sending 1663 01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:38,040 Ryman Fray like it's his. He sent Ryman Fray away and they 1664 01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:40,960 captured him because of that. Don't they have? 1665 01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:42,360 Don't they owe him something for that? 1666 01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:45,440 But we've seen how the Brotherhood is willing to settle 1667 01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:49,040 things by trial, by combat. Jamie can't fight for himself. 1668 01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,840 He's incapable, and Brienne knows for sure that he's 1669 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,160 innocent. So Brienne would step up if it's 1670 01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:58,080 a trial by combat, Brienne would would fight for him. 1671 01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:02,520 And presumably when I don't, there's not a single member of 1672 01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:03,920 the Brotherhood that can take Brienne. 1673 01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:05,880 I don't think, I mean, not anyone. 1674 01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,440 We've heard of Lem. Lem can't take Brienne. 1675 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:11,400 He might think he can, but no, no, no way. 1676 01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:13,680 Thoros himself, I don't think so. 1677 01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:15,920 I don't think Thoros is going to fight in a trial by combat. 1678 01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,840 It's not his role. I don't think. 1679 01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:19,800 Don't think so. Anyway. 1680 01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:22,280 Will Stoneheart honor the result? 1681 01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:24,800 That an interesting possibility that she's just too vindictive 1682 01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,000 and too vengeful to to to abide by the result. 1683 01:27:28,440 --> 01:27:31,440 However, I still don't think it will result in the end of Jamie 1684 01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:33,920 or Brienne. Maybe there's just no trial at 1685 01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:35,240 all. We we shouldn't assume that's 1686 01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:38,560 what's going to happen. Maybe they will use Jamie for 1687 01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,840 some other purpose, something that doesn't kill him. 1688 01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:45,440 Something that as a as bait or as a lure as who knows, they may 1689 01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:46,800 have something more clever in mind. 1690 01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:50,760 But presumably he gets out of this and Brienne does too. 1691 01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,320 How we'll have to wait and see. I think the trial by combat 1692 01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:56,840 maybe the simplest explanation, but even that is has some 1693 01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,760 issues, you know so but it's this hard. 1694 01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:03,240 It's still hard to predict how either of them would die there. 1695 01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:06,240 You know, even said don't I mean I'm not referring to the TV show 1696 01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:08,640 ending for either those characters as why I'm perplexed 1697 01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,000 here. I just Brienne's ending that 1698 01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:13,600 would be such a weak ending for her to be killed by the 1699 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:15,960 brotherhood. I don't see, I don't see it. 1700 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,600 And Jamie being killed there, that's not foreshadowed. 1701 01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:20,880 Like he has to be the one to kill Cersei, doesn't he? 1702 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:23,360 Or at least be reunited with her. 1703 01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:26,160 So there's further tragedy and settling of that arc. 1704 01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:28,280 I don't know, it just doesn't doesn't seem like it's going to 1705 01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,520 end there. But what if they do have a trial 1706 01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:31,920 by combat? There's another option here. 1707 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:34,440 What if it's fought in front of a heart tree or near 1? 1708 01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:38,840 Could Bran then witness it? Well, he could witness it 1709 01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:40,520 anyway. His powers may have grown to the 1710 01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,440 point where he doesn't have to have a heart treat if we see 1711 01:28:42,440 --> 01:28:44,000 things. Well, let's assume he does. 1712 01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:46,560 Or let's assume that there's something other some other 1713 01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:49,000 reason for having a heart trainer by which that Bran could 1714 01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:50,200 maybe try to communicate through. 1715 01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:53,080 Maybe he could whisper through it like he may have done to 1716 01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:55,480 Theon. Even just observing it would be 1717 01:28:55,480 --> 01:28:59,960 a big deal because Bran hasn't seen that his mother is walking 1718 01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:02,720 around undead. What a revelation that would be. 1719 01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:06,320 Not a pleasant one for sure, but it would also be confusing and 1720 01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:09,840 it might even be weird to the children. 1721 01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:13,480 The children who have all this magic and Lord, they might not 1722 01:29:13,480 --> 01:29:16,160 be aware this is possible. They might be like, whoa, wait, 1723 01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:20,240 what? How is they have this magic too? 1724 01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:22,880 Which might lead to an explanation of some things. 1725 01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:26,920 This might be a path to explaining how the others work 1726 01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:30,760 in the 1st place, their origin like these, these similarities, 1727 01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,840 this concept of the undead and all these people walking around. 1728 01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:35,920 I mean it, it, it needs explanation. 1729 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:39,400 Bran needs to understand this. He's freaking 8 years old, 1730 01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:41,000 y'all. He can't just know these things. 1731 01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:43,960 So the children have a lot more to teach him. 1732 01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:45,480 Blood Raven has a lot more to teach him. 1733 01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:49,760 And if he ever just sees that we've, we've theorized on all 1734 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,800 sorts of things. Bran might gaze into the past 1735 01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,480 and see or see in the present. And this is just such a big one. 1736 01:29:54,480 --> 01:29:57,040 Like he's going to want to know what's happening to the rest of 1737 01:29:57,040 --> 01:30:01,800 his family. He's not sure that Ari is dead. 1738 01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:05,160 They think he's dead, but he doesn't have this news that Ari 1739 01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:08,120 is definitely dead or he doesn't think Sans is dead either. 1740 01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:12,600 He thinks his mom's dead. He knows his father's dead, but 1741 01:30:13,480 --> 01:30:15,280 there's a path to him learning otherwise. 1742 01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:17,360 Or at least maybe someone else tells him if he's reunited with 1743 01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,400 somebody. What if he meets Brienne, you 1744 01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,560 know, at at Winterfell? Like, by the way, your mom's an 1745 01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,480 undead being, you know? So there's a lot of ways he 1746 01:30:25,480 --> 01:30:28,360 could learn that. And what a strange thing to try 1747 01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:29,720 to predict. Like, how would he react to 1748 01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:31,240 that? Like Bran is no longer just a 1749 01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:34,120 kid. I mean, he is literally, but he 1750 01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,480 doesn't have the the personality of one anymore because of all 1751 01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:40,600 he's seen and, and had talked to him and and learned and all 1752 01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:45,760 that. Now Merritt was horrified to see 1753 01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:47,640 Lady Stoneheart. Here's our section called 1754 01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,040 Reunions. Even though he knew he was about 1755 01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,160 to be executed, it was still a a step up. 1756 01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:55,360 Somehow it was scarier. Like he already knew he was 1757 01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:58,880 going to die, yet somehow it got worse without physical pain 1758 01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:01,720 adding into it. You know, somehow being seconds 1759 01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:05,480 away from strangulation was it got worse somehow? 1760 01:31:05,480 --> 01:31:06,880 Like, it's hard to make that worse. 1761 01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:11,280 But the sheer impossibility of what he was seeing like this 1762 01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:14,560 doesn't necessarily register with all of us readers because 1763 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:18,960 we've seen the undead since the prologue, right? 1764 01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:23,360 We have to remember that the vast majority of Westeros 1765 01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:26,840 doesn't even know this is possible for the dead to be 1766 01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,240 walking around to them. It's a silly story. 1767 01:31:29,480 --> 01:31:31,640 It's teary, and it's like snarks and grumpkins. 1768 01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:34,440 It falls in that category. It's something that either never 1769 01:31:34,440 --> 01:31:36,800 happened or stopped happening long ago. 1770 01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:41,120 So that is just seeing something that shouldn't be possible is a 1771 01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:44,040 different kind of terrifying. It's a different kind of 1772 01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,920 unnerving. It's like, wow, I'm my very 1773 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:51,280 notion of reality, of the thing that the way I perceive the 1774 01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:56,000 world is wrong. What I believe is possible is 1775 01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:59,000 wrong. There's clearly things if this 1776 01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:02,600 is possible, if it's possible for the dead to walk, what else 1777 01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:05,880 am I ignorant of that's possible in this world? 1778 01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:09,320 So it's not quite the same as Barrick because he was killed 1779 01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:14,640 repeatedly and that added to his like legend. 1780 01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,560 Like people were afraid of him just because he's like, you 1781 01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:20,120 can't seem to kill this guy. They don't literally think he 1782 01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:22,440 was killed all these times. They just think, wow, the 1783 01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:24,760 stories about this guy or he's hard to kill. 1784 01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:28,800 That's how it it ends up appearing to a regular person. 1785 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,920 They won't think, oh, that guy's been killed 6 times. 1786 01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:34,120 Yep. But he keeps coming back because 1787 01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,800 of relore. No, that's not how they perceive 1788 01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:38,800 it. They either they just perceive 1789 01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:41,640 it that he's just hard to kill. That's that's more rational. 1790 01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:44,640 That makes more sense. And and again, he was raised 1791 01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:48,200 quickly every single time, every single time he died, he was only 1792 01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:51,400 dead for, you know, minutes or an hour or two, right? 1793 01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:54,320 So that's very different than the three to four days she was 1794 01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:56,920 in the water. Surely there's a lot of other 1795 01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,040 folks like Merritt that have been in the same spot as 1796 01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:00,520 Merritt. They know they're about to get 1797 01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,480 hanged. And then they are confronted 1798 01:33:03,480 --> 01:33:08,680 with who's behind this and they realize that how is it possible? 1799 01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:12,560 So yeah, it's it's pretty scary. Let's be specific here with some 1800 01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:13,760 people that you might reunite with. 1801 01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:17,920 Aria, of course, is one of the biggest ones because it's the 1802 01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,080 child of hers that she's actively looking for, the child 1803 01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:24,520 of hers that was actually in the presence of the Brotherhood 1804 01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:28,480 before her time. What would they do? 1805 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:32,080 It's both of their reactions are very hard to predict Stoneheart. 1806 01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:35,120 Like it's hard to picture her softening, like she's just a 1807 01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:39,160 creature of vengeance and death. Seeing her daughter like can she 1808 01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:44,520 can she feel happy about this? I maybe can she feel maybe, 1809 01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:49,200 maybe satisfaction, maybe just a sense of something positive? 1810 01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:51,440 Maybe just she can relax a little bit. 1811 01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:53,800 I don't know. Like they can't really talk. 1812 01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:55,960 They can't have a conversation very easily. 1813 01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:57,800 Maybe they can talk and they can communicate a little bit. 1814 01:33:58,440 --> 01:34:02,280 Now, all that said, Aria is one of the few people not just in 1815 01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:05,280 her family, but period that might not be horrified because 1816 01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:06,160 of everything she's been through. 1817 01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,960 I mean, is Aria is the one who ate the worm out of the skull 1818 01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:12,280 face and the kindly old man. We've tried to look like that, 1819 01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:15,720 right? So she can manage, right? 1820 01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,520 She's also already seen her mother's dead body through 1821 01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:20,640 Nymeria's eyes in that wolf dream. 1822 01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:23,240 She might not be horrified, but she will be shocked. 1823 01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:27,200 She will be surprised. Arya, just like just about 1824 01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:30,480 everybody, is not familiar with any form of the undead. 1825 01:34:30,480 --> 01:34:32,840 She has not seen that. She's seen some things. 1826 01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:33,960 She's seen more than a lot of people. 1827 01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:36,320 She's seen some things at the House of the of the Undying. 1828 01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:37,880 I mean, houses are black and white. 1829 01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:42,400 And she knows more about the potential of the supernatural in 1830 01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:43,960 this world. She's been exposed to more 1831 01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:47,120 things that should not be than the average person. 1832 01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:49,440 But she hasn't been exposed to this particular thing. 1833 01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:51,760 And it's very personal to her. Of course, 'cause it's her 1834 01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:52,480 mother. It isn't just so. 1835 01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:54,960 Oh, the dad can walk. That's crazy. 1836 01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:57,320 Oh, my mother is a walking undead. 1837 01:34:57,320 --> 01:34:59,080 Yeah, that's a whole nother level, isn't it? 1838 01:34:59,880 --> 01:35:04,480 And coming back to Nymeria, that's a reason why Arya might 1839 01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:06,280 go to the Riverlands in the 1st place. 1840 01:35:06,280 --> 01:35:07,760 She doesn't know her mom's there. 1841 01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:09,880 She doesn't know Stoneheart as Catlin. 1842 01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:13,160 But if she's going to the Riverlands, maybe to go after 1843 01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:15,960 the phrase because she they are on her list, not specifically 1844 01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:18,360 because she doesn't have names. She just knows the phrases are 1845 01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:21,000 responsible for the Red Wedding. So if she goes there, if she's 1846 01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:24,440 pulled there, if she's drawn there because of Nymeria, that 1847 01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:27,080 could lead to an encounter with her mother like the Brotherhood 1848 01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:28,680 might see her and be like, oh hey, that's Arya. 1849 01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:31,400 Question from Chance Wilson from Patreon. 1850 01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:34,480 Do you think Stoneheart won't recognize Aria if and when they 1851 01:35:34,480 --> 01:35:37,640 cross paths? That's an interesting question. 1852 01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:40,720 Like if Aria is in disguise, she Stoneheart might not know who 1853 01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:43,360 she is. And if Stoneheart might not be 1854 01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:46,960 recognizable to Aria by the same token, I think the truth would 1855 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:50,280 probably come out, but and I'm not sure that Aria needs to hide 1856 01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:53,160 who she is because not a lot of people know what she even looks 1857 01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:55,840 like. Just given the fact that Roose 1858 01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:59,080 Bolton is using a fake Aria as part of the evidence of that, 1859 01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:01,920 you know, like a part of that is people aren't willing to 1860 01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:04,640 challenge Roose on that. But part of it too is they know 1861 01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:06,920 they can get away with it because most people don't know 1862 01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:11,280 what Aria looks like. So that's an angle that is 1863 01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:13,080 something I hadn't considered. Very good question. 1864 01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:15,560 Chance. I think that even if she doesn't 1865 01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:19,000 recognize her, if Stoneheart doesn't recognize Aria, I think 1866 01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:24,240 that would come out. What if what we saw on TV with 1867 01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:28,600 Aria killing all the phrase, which is a bit over the top or a 1868 01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:31,400 lot over the top? What if that is something they 1869 01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:34,840 do together? What if that's they reunite and 1870 01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:37,720 that's where it leads? You know, the two of them are 1871 01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:39,400 capable. She's like, hey, I'm in on this 1872 01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:40,760 plan. Let's get those phrase. 1873 01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:45,720 But this may happen before Aria gets to Westeros, right, Aria? 1874 01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:47,640 Who knows if the timing will line up on that. 1875 01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:50,920 On the other hand, Aria's mercy chapter already sends seems to 1876 01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:53,600 be pushing her tour away from the from the House of Black and 1877 01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:54,880 White. She's already broken their rules 1878 01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:56,520 again. She, you know, did her own 1879 01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:01,320 murder. So maybe that's enough of a ball 1880 01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:03,760 rolling for her to get Westeros to Westeros soon enough for 1881 01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:09,080 these things to kind of line up. Uncle Brendan, this is a tough 1882 01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:12,080 one. He doesn't have Aria's 1883 01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:17,280 experience with supernatural, which is kind of a funny 1884 01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:21,080 sentence to say. So he won't just react like, oh, 1885 01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:24,000 this is nothing. You know, he will be like he's 1886 01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,120 another person has no idea the dead can walk. 1887 01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:28,960 And he's been he's been living a lot longer. 1888 01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:30,920 So his life experience is a little more settled. 1889 01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:34,800 You know, a 50 year old man discovering the dead can walk is 1890 01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:38,640 different than an 8 year old discovering that he won't 1891 01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:42,160 exactly object to what the brotherhood has accomplished to 1892 01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:43,960 hanging phrase. He'll be like, he'll be all 1893 01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:48,360 about that and they would love to have his leadership in their 1894 01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:50,120 group. I mean, his ability to plan 1895 01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:54,040 ambushes, his knowledge of River Run itself could be very useful 1896 01:37:54,040 --> 01:37:56,880 in the planning of strikes or ambushes or infiltration. 1897 01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,440 His ability to communicate like they already had do that really 1898 01:38:00,440 --> 01:38:03,280 well. But he would add to that, and I 1899 01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:07,320 believe he's still loyal to the Kingdom of the North. 1900 01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:08,800 I don't see any reason to see otherwise. 1901 01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,840 Like why did he escape? Why did he, what was the purpose 1902 01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,480 of him escaping if he was not going to continue fighting? 1903 01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:17,160 If he had given up, he would have just surrendered and taken 1904 01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:18,600 the black. That would be it. 1905 01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,000 That'd be the end of it, you know? 1906 01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,720 So he clearly continues to keep going. 1907 01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:25,280 That's what Jamie believes. That's what others believe. 1908 01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:27,200 They they know what kind of man he is. 1909 01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:29,960 Again, he's been around, he's established, his personality is 1910 01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:33,040 well known. So they they can make 1911 01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:34,880 predictions based on that. And they're right. 1912 01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:39,480 So again, coming back to the idea that the The Winds of 1913 01:38:39,480 --> 01:38:41,640 Winter prologue chapter is supposedly going to include Jane 1914 01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:43,560 Westerly. Not that she's the POV, not that 1915 01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:49,160 she isn't, but she's in it. Which means we have her party 1916 01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:52,680 with Ed Muir. 400 men led by Sir Forley Prester heading to 1917 01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:55,800 Casterly Rock could be ambushed by the Brotherhood. 1918 01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:59,240 It could be ambushed by the Brotherhood with the help of, or 1919 01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:02,440 with or without Nymeria's Wolfpack, with or without 1920 01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,640 Blackfish. Lots of possibilities. 1921 01:39:06,480 --> 01:39:08,760 He's also a man that people would rally to if the 1922 01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:11,360 Brotherhood is having trouble with recruiting because 1923 01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:15,040 Stoneheart is villainous or dark and they don't necessarily want 1924 01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:18,240 to sign up for that. They might sign up for fighting 1925 01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:21,640 under the famous Blackfish, especially Riverlanders, who in, 1926 01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:24,640 you know, the, the region he's from is and, and not just 1927 01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,400 because of him, because he's a great guy to fight for, because 1928 01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:31,480 he's an honorable leader to, to follow an established legend, 1929 01:39:31,480 --> 01:39:34,440 living legend, but because the phraser cursed. 1930 01:39:34,440 --> 01:39:37,600 A lot of people see the phrases just they need to be punished. 1931 01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:41,640 They, they violated guest right and say no more. 1932 01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:43,480 That's a reason to go after them. 1933 01:39:43,480 --> 01:39:45,680 You know, they, they people just hate the phrase for that, even 1934 01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:48,320 if it's not personal. And for a lot of people it is 1935 01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:50,680 personal. It's really hard to judge what 1936 01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:53,760 Stoneheart will think of of well, what, what Blackfish will 1937 01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:55,440 think of Stoneheart walking around like this. 1938 01:39:55,440 --> 01:39:59,160 Like, I have a real difficulty guessing how that might go. 1939 01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:03,720 But ultimately he will have to take note that their goals are 1940 01:40:03,720 --> 01:40:06,720 in alignment at least somewhat. Maybe he's not as excited about 1941 01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:10,160 just murdering phrase for the hell of it, but that certainly 1942 01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:14,880 is in line with his goals of fighting for the Kingdom of the 1943 01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:17,880 North, the the fallen Kingdom of the North, which he hasn't given 1944 01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:20,240 up on. Remember, he pointed to Jamie 1945 01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:23,280 Lannister's like, see the Stark banister flies over these walls. 1946 01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:25,640 You know we're not. As long as that's there, You 1947 01:40:25,640 --> 01:40:28,040 know, I haven't given up. And of course, Stoneheart has 1948 01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:30,640 Rob's crown, which that's meaningful to him at least a 1949 01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:32,400 little bit. He not only does he want to 1950 01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:36,520 fight for Jane Westerling, Rob's queen, but the crown of the 1951 01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:40,320 North is an important artifact, important item for their cause. 1952 01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:44,560 So yeah, who knows what they'll talk about like that. 1953 01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:48,160 This maybe probably isn't a scene we would have on page, but 1954 01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:52,440 it's just really hard to figure. I don't think Stoneheart, it's 1955 01:40:52,440 --> 01:40:54,920 not hard from her perspective, she'd be like, hey, uncle, get 1956 01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:57,040 on board, help us out. We could really use your skills. 1957 01:40:57,400 --> 01:41:01,680 His reaction is the one that's hard to figure questionable 1958 01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:04,120 further theories in our Blackfish episode. 1959 01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:06,400 We've got more in that one, so check that out if you want more 1960 01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:08,240 on him. Earlier we mentioned the 1961 01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:09,800 possibility of going into the neck. 1962 01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:13,440 So what about the Hal and Reid? What is Hal and Reid's 1963 01:41:13,440 --> 01:41:14,760 involvement here? We mentioned some of the 1964 01:41:14,760 --> 01:41:16,640 northern leaders that might be hiding in the neck with him, but 1965 01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,160 what about him specifically? Could he help? 1966 01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:23,360 Could he have an opinion on Catlin walking around? 1967 01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,400 He knows what she looks like, unlike a lot of the other 1968 01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,680 people. He would have met her briefly, 1969 01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:31,120 only briefly because he never went to Winterfell after Robert 1970 01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,880 Rebellion were told. But he did likely go to the 1971 01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:37,640 wedding of Catlin and Ned, which happened at River Run like right 1972 01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:40,680 before the war. So he he was with Ned all 1973 01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:43,840 throughout the war. So he was probably there during 1974 01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:47,000 that part as well. But we still know Hal and Reid 1975 01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:48,440 very well. We've never seen him on screen. 1976 01:41:48,440 --> 01:41:52,160 So it's all it's it's, we do know Blackfish, and it's hard 1977 01:41:52,160 --> 01:41:53,800 enough predicting his reaction to Stoneheart. 1978 01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:55,440 We don't know Howland Reid very well. 1979 01:41:55,440 --> 01:41:57,040 So it's even harder to perceive this. 1980 01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:00,800 The one thing about Howland, and I'll say is he's definitely more 1981 01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:04,200 open and aware of the supernatural. 1982 01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:08,880 The fact that she's a dead person walking around might be a 1983 01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:12,160 lot less surprising to him. Even though it might, it's still 1984 01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:13,840 probably surprising, but less surprising. 1985 01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:16,560 He might be aware of a lot more what's going on in the North, 1986 01:42:18,440 --> 01:42:22,760 Sansa. So everyone knows everyone quote 1987 01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,480 UN quote knows that Santa fled after Joffrey's murder. 1988 01:42:25,480 --> 01:42:29,680 She's implicated by some people and that Tyrion was her husband 1989 01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:32,280 and that Tyrion escaped as well while killing Tywin. 1990 01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:35,560 So a lot of people think Santa's probably guilty. 1991 01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:40,080 A lot of people think Santa is it was implicated that she's a 1992 01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:41,880 murderer. So that's a big deal. 1993 01:42:42,440 --> 01:42:44,920 But also like Arya, I mean, she's not like Arya and that she 1994 01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:47,880 can see a a skull and not react to it. 1995 01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:52,200 She's a little more squeamish, maybe a lot more squeamish, but 1996 01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:56,240 she also has no idea the undead are a thing, let alone that her 1997 01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:57,760 mother is one of them. Right? 1998 01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:01,120 So question for Ranabir Mitchra. Here's a good one. 1999 01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:03,840 Does Baelish's plot potentially intersect with Stoneheart? 2000 01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:08,120 As in, maybe she's the one either directly or indirectly, 2001 01:43:08,120 --> 01:43:11,840 or part of the solution to Peter Baelish in the long term? 2002 01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:15,120 He probably dies. Probably dies in Winterfell, or 2003 01:43:15,120 --> 01:43:19,920 at least in the North. So maybe she's part of what 2004 01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:22,600 undoes him. You know, Sansa alone can do 2005 01:43:22,600 --> 01:43:24,880 this with maybe the help of Aria or just some Winterfell 2006 01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:28,400 loyalists. But that's a good one. 2007 01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:32,360 Stoneheart's knowledge of what happened and what she's learned 2008 01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:34,400 since. Yeah, that could really, that 2009 01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:39,160 could help undo him. And that would be kind of poetic 2010 01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:43,400 for the person that he has lusted after, that a lot of his 2011 01:43:43,400 --> 01:43:50,440 career was of a, as a intriguer and wanton man of ambition who 2012 01:43:50,440 --> 01:43:57,400 is has no qualms and scruples, is motivated by his desire to be 2013 01:43:57,400 --> 01:44:01,600 worthy of a Catelyn Tullhey. And, you know, he believed he 2014 01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:04,640 deserved her, that he should have won her. 2015 01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:08,560 And he's spent most of his life trying to, you know, correct 2016 01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:11,800 that or, or fix that or whatever, or get revenge for 2017 01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:12,960 that, however you want to frame it. 2018 01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:17,840 So what a thing if he finally does get her, But it's it's 2019 01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:20,080 really her getting him, you know, he's like, I'm finally 2020 01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:21,720 united with. Yeah. 2021 01:44:25,480 --> 01:44:28,640 Another possibility, though, is that he goes to Harrenhal. 2022 01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:30,000 You know, it's, it is his castle. 2023 01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:33,200 And I don't suppose he will. I figure he's going to go from 2024 01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:36,280 the Vale to the North and and never bother to go to Harrenhal. 2025 01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:39,640 But what if he, you know, maybe he makes a stop there on the 2026 01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:41,240 way. It's not really on the way, but 2027 01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:43,840 he might need to go that way for some reason. 2028 01:44:44,440 --> 01:44:46,520 Probably not, but it's worth thinking about it it. 2029 01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:48,560 That would be a way for this to come to a head. 2030 01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:50,760 Like it could happen there. She's in the Riverlands. 2031 01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:53,320 George doesn't want Stoneheart to go north, so he's got to have 2032 01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:55,640 this resolution happen down there because, yeah, because 2033 01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:57,880 happened Stoneheart go north. That might be tricky for her as 2034 01:44:57,880 --> 01:44:59,840 well. She might not want to go north 2035 01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:01,960 because it's where the phrase and Lannisters aren't up there. 2036 01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,840 Well, there are some phrase up there, but not as many. 2037 01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:08,400 I don't think it'll be difficult for her to go north because 2038 01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:13,480 Howlin Reed, the Neck like that should be open to her, but 2039 01:45:13,480 --> 01:45:16,080 especially not that the Ironborn are no longer in Moe Caitlin, 2040 01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:21,920 but stone hard and Baelish. Yeah, that is definitely 2041 01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:23,160 possible. It's a compelling thought. 2042 01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:25,080 I I'm down. I'm not too big on the Harrenhal 2043 01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:27,320 possibility, but it's worth mentioning the Winterfell 2044 01:45:27,320 --> 01:45:30,400 possibility. Yeah, like, imagine him. 2045 01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:32,440 Imagine. Picture merits reaction. 2046 01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:36,040 Picture Brianne's reaction to realizing who this really is. 2047 01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:41,040 Like, Oh my God, it's her. Littlefinger's reaction to that 2048 01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:43,680 would be the like the the smirking. 2049 01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,280 I know you what you don't know, man. 2050 01:45:46,480 --> 01:45:50,160 Truly undone by something he could have never seen coming. 2051 01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:55,200 Some the Game of Thrones is what he's focused on, and the Game of 2052 01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:57,600 Thrones for the most part does not involve the supernatural, 2053 01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:00,800 just the fight for the throne. And he's so focused on that this 2054 01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:02,760 is not part of his world. What a thing. 2055 01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:06,920 There's a lot of people who are pure intrigue, pure mundane. 2056 01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:09,720 I don't mean mundane, boring. I mean they're not involved with 2057 01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:12,080 anything supernatural. A lot of that's going to come to 2058 01:46:12,080 --> 01:46:15,080 a head. The supernatural is becoming a 2059 01:46:15,080 --> 01:46:17,240 bigger part of the story. It's stretching out. 2060 01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:19,640 It's it's flooding more of the POV's. 2061 01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:23,120 More and more of the arcs are getting tied into it little by 2062 01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:25,520 little or a lot by a lot, or some of them are already quite 2063 01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:29,400 deep in it. So those collisions will be very 2064 01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:31,080 interesting to see. The people who have operated 2065 01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:33,760 very successfully outside of supernatural means, 2066 01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:37,800 Littlefinger, Varis, to a lesser extent, Tyrion, things like 2067 01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:39,880 that. When they come full circle and 2068 01:46:39,880 --> 01:46:43,680 realize that this stuff is real and that it's big and that it's 2069 01:46:44,240 --> 01:46:46,920 can't be ignored, well, there's a lot of reckoning going to 2070 01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:48,120 happen there. A lot of people are going to 2071 01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:50,440 have to really change their worldview, and some of them 2072 01:46:50,440 --> 01:46:51,960 won't have time for that. Some of them are just going to 2073 01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:55,760 die before they can ever, you know, figure out what it is they 2074 01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,880 missed or understand what it is that's happening. 2075 01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:02,360 So in the winter, so Winterfell in the North, we we're kind of 2076 01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:04,200 already in that subject, but a little more here. 2077 01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:08,520 The original plan for Catlin in a game when it was a trilogy, 2078 01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:11,280 when George had that his his first thoughts on what was going 2079 01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:13,400 to happen. Catlin was going to die beyond 2080 01:47:13,400 --> 01:47:16,200 the wall. He didn't specify that she would 2081 01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:18,840 be resurrected or raised afterwards that in the original 2082 01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,600 outline that I can recall. But it seems likely that that 2083 01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:26,920 was his plan because that would be of a place for that to 2084 01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:29,240 happen, right? For a someone dies beyond the 2085 01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:31,480 wall and then they come, they rise up again. 2086 01:47:31,480 --> 01:47:33,480 Like, that's plenty of that happening, right? 2087 01:47:33,480 --> 01:47:35,400 That would be quite a thing to have happened to her. 2088 01:47:35,640 --> 01:47:39,200 But whether he was going to, she was going to be like a cold 2089 01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:41,400 hands kind of thing where she still had a lot of her 2090 01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:44,280 personality and could still talk and do other things, or whether 2091 01:47:44,280 --> 01:47:48,560 she'd be more like a real ice white that has maybe nothing 2092 01:47:48,560 --> 01:47:51,600 going on other than some memories deep in there. 2093 01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:52,720 They can't talk. They can't. 2094 01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:56,720 Yeah, so a lot has changed since then in both how George is 2095 01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:00,080 conceptualized, not just the series, but the world, these 2096 01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:02,000 characters, how the supernatural stuff works. 2097 01:48:02,200 --> 01:48:04,880 Still, there's some of those original elements are probably 2098 01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:07,520 still around. Can she pass the wall? 2099 01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:09,600 Probably not. She's undead. 2100 01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:12,920 Like, I don't think the, I don't think the wall is attuned to 2101 01:48:12,920 --> 01:48:15,760 only the undead raised by the others. 2102 01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:21,160 It's probably all of them. I mean, I think, you know, and 2103 01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:22,760 might have problems with Winterfell too. 2104 01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:24,960 Winterfell has some anti magic in it too. 2105 01:48:25,360 --> 01:48:28,320 Storms End had anti magic in it. Remember, Melisandre needed to 2106 01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,440 be rode inside in order to unleash her shadow. 2107 01:48:31,440 --> 01:48:34,080 Had she released a shadow outside, it wouldn't have gotten 2108 01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:37,440 in. So these things are perhaps 2109 01:48:37,440 --> 01:48:41,480 related conceptually, Yeah. And I wonder, maybe George is 2110 01:48:41,480 --> 01:48:46,160 going to be nicer and let her find out that Rickon's alive, 2111 01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:50,440 that Bran's alive, that Sansa got out of Tyrion's clutches and 2112 01:48:50,440 --> 01:48:53,440 was never really that deeply in his clutches in the 1st place. 2113 01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:56,640 Either way, she's away from the Lannisters, although she's in 2114 01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,960 Little Fingers clutches instead, which might even be worse in 2115 01:48:59,960 --> 01:49:02,520 some ways, but less worse than others. 2116 01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:06,240 Because Littlefinger is not as powerful militaristically as the 2117 01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:07,920 Lannisters. He doesn't have the wealth and 2118 01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:10,320 all that, so in some ways he's a less dangerous foe. 2119 01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:12,920 If you've identified properly that he is 1. 2120 01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:18,680 What makes him so hard to get is he's so clever about not being 2121 01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:22,080 recognized as the problem. So I really wonder about that. 2122 01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:26,880 Like will, will she learn? Will she have that relief of 2123 01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:30,480 learning that actually Rob is the only one that's dead of your 2124 01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:33,040 children? It's quite opposite from what 2125 01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,960 you believe You believe. Like for a while you thought Rob 2126 01:49:35,960 --> 01:49:39,240 was the only one around, but you have it backwards. 2127 01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:41,480 So that would be nice for her to learn that. 2128 01:49:41,480 --> 01:49:43,840 But how does that affect her in this state? 2129 01:49:44,200 --> 01:49:48,240 What is feeling better mean when she's a a revenant type 2130 01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:51,280 creature? Now in terms of the dark side 2131 01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:54,280 here and her outlook for continuing vengeance, what might 2132 01:49:54,280 --> 01:49:55,920 she accomplish? What kind of predictions do we 2133 01:49:55,920 --> 01:49:58,080 have? We've talked about the Red 2134 01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:00,880 Wedding 2 point O in a bunch of different episodes and she is 2135 01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:03,840 absolutely possible here. The addition of the Blackfish 2136 01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:08,000 into her squad may add a lot of potential there because if 2137 01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:10,920 they're not only does he just have general expertise and 2138 01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:15,880 motivation, but he has knowledge of river Run, right, The Red 2139 01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:19,080 Wedding, 2 point O, that's where it would take place at river 2140 01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:23,880 run. So to in order to have the new 2141 01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:27,400 phrase of river of river run sort of announced their presence 2142 01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:31,120 or to kick off their their reign and announce, you know, just to 2143 01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:33,200 establish themselves within the Riverlands, right. 2144 01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:34,680 It's no longer the Tully's. It's us. 2145 01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:36,840 We could have a big event to, you know, spread the word, all 2146 01:50:36,840 --> 01:50:40,840 that. So that's a possibility. 2147 01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:44,680 And if that happens, then that might be a lot of phrase getting 2148 01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:47,520 killed. That might be the getting us to 2149 01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:50,040 the place the TV show took us with a whole lot of phrase being 2150 01:50:50,040 --> 01:50:52,080 killed, except it'll be by her instead of by Arya. 2151 01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:58,280 And coming back to the Jane Westerling, Ed Muir's captive 2152 01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:00,520 party led by 400 men going to Cashley Rock. 2153 01:51:00,520 --> 01:51:03,480 That's obviously included here, as well as a strong possibility 2154 01:51:03,480 --> 01:51:06,200 for her to interfere with that that train of people. 2155 01:51:07,040 --> 01:51:09,760 So the phrase and Lannisters are no longer ignorant of her, 2156 01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:14,440 they're ignorant of her. True origin and the fact that 2157 01:51:14,440 --> 01:51:18,680 she's a magical being, but so this, you can't just assume that 2158 01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:22,080 this Red Wedding 2 pointer will be easy to pull off, that they 2159 01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:23,760 won't be. Well, of course it won't be easy 2160 01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:25,280 to pull off, but they won't see it coming. 2161 01:51:25,320 --> 01:51:27,800 The phrase and the Lannisters and all this folks in the 2162 01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:31,120 Riverlands that are on that side, they're well aware that 2163 01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:33,120 they're hated. They're well aware that phrase 2164 01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:35,000 are getting hanged from traveling from place to place. 2165 01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,280 They aren't ignorant of that. It's very straightforward. 2166 01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:39,280 So they're going to tighten up security. 2167 01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:43,800 They know what they did. They're wary of of of kickback, 2168 01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:46,120 of a vengeance of people coming back at them. 2169 01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:49,360 Doesn't mean it will be sufficient security, doesn't 2170 01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:54,120 mean that they will prevent what's coming, prevent their 2171 01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:57,360 karmic justice. But they won't be caught totally 2172 01:51:57,360 --> 01:52:00,200 off guard either. I don't think in fact, just 2173 01:52:00,360 --> 01:52:03,680 people traveling to the wedding, going to the wedding, that might 2174 01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:06,440 put them at risk. That alone might be a problem. 2175 01:52:06,440 --> 01:52:08,400 Like, I don't know if I want to go to that wedding, I might get 2176 01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:11,560 killed on the way there. I don't want to travel with 100 2177 01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:14,320 men to make sure I make it there on time. 2178 01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:16,680 That's just really expensive. On the other hand, these are the 2179 01:52:16,680 --> 01:52:18,800 new Lords. These are the new Lords of River 2180 01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:20,360 Run. They're not the new Lords of the 2181 01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:22,600 Trident, but they are the new Lords of River Run. 2182 01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:27,080 So yeah, I would put them in a difficult spot. 2183 01:52:28,360 --> 01:52:30,360 They also want to put the Red Wedding in the past. 2184 01:52:30,360 --> 01:52:32,680 Like they're they don't want people to keep thinking of that. 2185 01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:34,680 They want sort of erase their wrongdoing here. 2186 01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:37,600 Like, let's do as much as we can to correct people's opinion of 2187 01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:39,000 us. It's going to take a while, but, 2188 01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:41,200 you know, better get started on that. 2189 01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:44,480 We'll try to have a big successful wedding party, a 2190 01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:47,680 fresh start, a new beginning. Well, we'll see about that. 2191 01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:51,800 And will the wedding still go off the way it was going to with 2192 01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:55,760 Jamie being captured or running off with Brianne, like his army 2193 01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:58,520 is just kind of listless and standing there and waiting to 2194 01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:01,160 figure out what happened to him. Is the wedding just going to go 2195 01:53:01,160 --> 01:53:04,880 along as planned with things like that happening, or are they 2196 01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:06,760 just like Jamie's just on some side quest? 2197 01:53:06,760 --> 01:53:09,480 Don't worry about it. You know, they don't know what 2198 01:53:09,480 --> 01:53:12,000 to think at this point, but the longer he's missing, the more 2199 01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:15,400 they'll be concerned. The Lannisters are also aware of 2200 01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:17,960 who they're climbing in bed with and they don't like it. 2201 01:53:18,600 --> 01:53:21,080 It was Tywin's deal. Tywin made the deal with them 2202 01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:23,960 and kind of inflicted it on the rest of the Lannisters. 2203 01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:27,560 No other Lannisters were even aware of it before it happened, 2204 01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:31,040 except probably Kevin. It's another massive failure on 2205 01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:34,680 Tywin's part, His legacy. He wanted to make his family 2206 01:53:35,080 --> 01:53:39,480 safe and powerful and for the long run. 2207 01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:43,160 But this is not a this is accomplished the opposite. 2208 01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:47,080 He's empowered a whole generation of people who look at 2209 01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:51,560 the Lannisters, the phrase more so, but also the Lannisters as 2210 01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:55,680 Breakers of guest right. They're not as accursed as the 2211 01:53:55,680 --> 01:54:00,440 phrase, but their reputation is was already bad and now it's 2212 01:54:00,440 --> 01:54:03,120 worse. And with Tywin's death, they're 2213 01:54:03,120 --> 01:54:06,560 now not as scary. So you've got, they're, they're 2214 01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:11,440 where they're at is hanging on to power, but no one really is 2215 01:54:11,440 --> 01:54:14,760 loyal to that. They're just there because they 2216 01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:17,720 don't have a choice. If given an alternative, people 2217 01:54:17,720 --> 01:54:22,440 will jump that Lannister ship, whether it's to Young Griff or 2218 01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:27,720 someone else like a Sansa going north or to Daenerys or 2219 01:54:27,720 --> 01:54:31,320 something like that, who knows. But they're not going to be tied 2220 01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:34,080 to the Lannisters out of, you know, loyalty or ideology. 2221 01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:36,840 It'll be just because they don't see a better option for their 2222 01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:41,120 own survival. So people like Jamie and to a 2223 01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:44,920 lesser extent Cersei Kevin would have been in this category where 2224 01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:49,680 he not dead now too are yeah, we are concerned about how everyone 2225 01:54:49,680 --> 01:54:52,760 sees us because of our involvement in this heinous 2226 01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:56,120 event. So check out Davin Lannister who 2227 01:54:56,320 --> 01:54:59,160 if there's a Red Wedding 2 point O he's the groom. 2228 01:54:59,480 --> 01:55:02,240 So he's right in the middle of this. 2229 01:55:02,480 --> 01:55:06,080 Here's what he has to say about it while speaking to Jamie. 2230 01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:10,760 Quote the phrase are prickly where marriage contracts are 2231 01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:12,880 concerned. I would hate to disappoint them 2232 01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:15,120 again. Sir Davin snorted. 2233 01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:18,640 I'll wet and bed my stoat, never fear. 2234 01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:21,440 I know what happened to Rob Stark. 2235 01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:25,640 From what Edwin tells me, though, I'd best pick one who 2236 01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:29,720 hasn't flowered yet, or I'm like to find that Black Walder has 2237 01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:33,280 been there first. I'll wager he's had Gatehouse, 2238 01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:37,720 Amy, and more than thrice. Maybe that explains Landsell's 2239 01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:40,200 godliness and his father's mood, yeah. 2240 01:55:41,160 --> 01:55:46,720 This isn't exactly the speaking, you know, in tones about your 2241 01:55:46,720 --> 01:55:48,760 former leader that are very respectful. 2242 01:55:48,760 --> 01:55:50,680 Yeah. Like he doesn't mention Tywin, 2243 01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:52,320 but it's Tywin who arranged all this. 2244 01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:54,400 And he's like, why did he put us up to this? 2245 01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:57,160 Why did he make us do this? Why did he tie us to this house 2246 01:55:57,160 --> 01:55:59,480 that everybody hates? Like we're we're being pulled 2247 01:55:59,480 --> 01:56:02,480 down by this, you know? So, yeah, the comment about 2248 01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:05,000 Stoat is hilarious, right? He's a lot of people say the 2249 01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:08,080 phrase look like we weasels, but you know, Davin thinks it's more 2250 01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:10,240 like a stoat means like that's weasel isn't quite right. 2251 01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:15,280 It's more of a stoat. So if we're talking about other 2252 01:56:15,280 --> 01:56:17,720 people who are a target, you know, a younger Lannister like 2253 01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:22,880 Joy, who is a a bastard of Joy Hill, who was being he's being 2254 01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:25,560 married to one of the Spicers or an elder one like Jenna 2255 01:56:25,560 --> 01:56:27,440 Lannister. Tywin's sister, like Jenna's 2256 01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:31,680 largely innocent, but she's certainly guilty by association. 2257 01:56:31,680 --> 01:56:33,840 She's married to a friend as a Lannister by birth. 2258 01:56:33,840 --> 01:56:36,400 In terms of the Brotherhood, that's a it's about as bad as it 2259 01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:38,080 gets. And now if we're going back to 2260 01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:39,920 the realm of tragedy, because I don't think too many people will 2261 01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:43,840 be sad about Jenna Lannister or even Joy Hill being killed, it 2262 01:56:43,840 --> 01:56:46,760 we might recognize that it's not necessarily fair. 2263 01:56:46,760 --> 01:56:48,600 But they're not exactly beloved characters. 2264 01:56:49,040 --> 01:56:53,240 If Olivar or Perwin Frey, the good guy phrase. 2265 01:56:53,240 --> 01:56:58,840 The ones that when Catelyn is having her dark revelation about 2266 01:56:58,840 --> 01:57:01,640 what's about to happen at the Red Wing, she realizes, uh oh, 2267 01:57:01,640 --> 01:57:05,040 she touches the male on Ryman's arm or Edwin, I forget which one 2268 01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:09,280 it is, realizes what's going on. She realizes that Olivar and 2269 01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:11,920 Perwin's lack of presence is part of the picture. 2270 01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:14,400 She's like, Oh my God, that's why they're not here. 2271 01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:16,520 They wouldn't have participated in the Red Wedding. 2272 01:57:17,040 --> 01:57:19,920 Is she so far gone that even they are targets now? 2273 01:57:20,040 --> 01:57:22,280 And she's like, I don't care. Olivar, Perwin, They're all 2274 01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:24,560 phrase. That would be a way for us to 2275 01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:30,040 tell if she murders, executes Olivar or Perwin, especially 2276 01:57:30,040 --> 01:57:33,560 Olivar, who's young. He's a he's like, not Kendry 2277 01:57:33,720 --> 01:57:36,720 Podrick's age. That's dark as hell. 2278 01:57:36,720 --> 01:57:39,080 And it tells us how that she's gone that far. 2279 01:57:39,360 --> 01:57:44,120 If she scruples to not do that, well, then that's telling, too. 2280 01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:47,240 I have a feeling it's going to be the former, though, if any, 2281 01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:50,120 that she's just that far gone. And the Brotherhood wouldn't 2282 01:57:50,120 --> 01:57:52,280 necessarily know. They don't know that Oliver and 2283 01:57:52,280 --> 01:57:54,880 Perwin were the good ones, so they wouldn't even be. 2284 01:57:54,880 --> 01:57:57,280 They wouldn't necessarily speak up and go, isn't this guy like, 2285 01:57:57,280 --> 01:57:59,000 wasn't he kind of all right? Yeah. 2286 01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:00,080 So I don't. I don't know about that. 2287 01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:02,800 That's bad. So returning briefly to the idea 2288 01:58:02,800 --> 01:58:05,800 that her she might go north, it could be in relation to the 2289 01:58:05,800 --> 01:58:08,480 others like the other, like this is an attack on the realm. 2290 01:58:09,120 --> 01:58:12,720 The Brotherhood might want to help with that and some of them 2291 01:58:12,720 --> 01:58:16,480 might break with her over that or she could lead them there to 2292 01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:20,120 to deal with that. But while secretly she's more 2293 01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:22,600 interested in fighting Bolton's and frays that are up in the 2294 01:58:22,600 --> 01:58:27,520 North, or maybe she's heard that Sansa or Arya is there and she 2295 01:58:27,520 --> 01:58:29,520 wants to go there to be reunited with them. 2296 01:58:29,680 --> 01:58:31,480 It doesn't have to be the main motivation. 2297 01:58:31,480 --> 01:58:34,080 Might be just one of her children or Ricken, right? 2298 01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:36,440 Doesn't have to be related to her, her vengeance. 2299 01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:38,320 It could be related to reuniting with her children. 2300 01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:40,440 But it could also be both. Yeah, 'cause the Bolton's might 2301 01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:43,280 be done for by the time she even considers going north, Stannis 2302 01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:44,760 might be in charge. He might be dead too. 2303 01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:46,400 Who knows? So with the Jamie and Brienne 2304 01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:49,760 stuff happening, reunion and her family can impact where she's 2305 01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:53,080 going and there's the vengeance. What about after all that? 2306 01:58:53,080 --> 01:58:55,040 What if all or none of that happened? 2307 01:58:55,040 --> 01:58:58,600 Well, some of it will happen can't all be not not happening. 2308 01:58:58,600 --> 01:59:00,600 But it what about it? What about past that? 2309 01:59:01,320 --> 01:59:04,320 But we just don't know. Even people who can look ahead, 2310 01:59:04,320 --> 01:59:06,520 even people with prophetic powers don't know. 2311 01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:08,360 Bran has not seen her in the flames. 2312 01:59:08,360 --> 01:59:10,240 Melisandre has not seen her in the flames. 2313 01:59:10,840 --> 01:59:17,080 Thoros has specifically looked and here's what he saw or didn't 2314 01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:19,800 see quote. We were King's men when we 2315 01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:25,480 began, the man told her. But King's men must have a king, 2316 01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:30,360 and we have none. We were brothers too, but now 2317 01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:34,640 our brotherhood is broken. I do not know who we are, if 2318 01:59:34,640 --> 01:59:38,600 truth be told, nor where we might be going. 2319 01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:44,760 I only know the road is dark. The fires have not shown me what 2320 01:59:44,760 --> 01:59:48,880 lies at its end. Very metaphorical way to put it. 2321 01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:53,280 The the fires are what shows him the future, but the the road is 2322 01:59:53,280 --> 01:59:54,880 dark. It's like the fires do not 2323 01:59:54,880 --> 01:59:57,360 illuminate that portion of what he's looking for. 2324 01:59:57,800 --> 02:00:00,600 So and not only does no one perceive her now, no one 2325 02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:02,600 predicted her like we didn't see. 2326 02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:06,400 There's no prophetic vision or dream in the entire series I can 2327 02:00:06,400 --> 02:00:08,880 think of that is tells of her coming. 2328 02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:11,920 There is no like stone hearts coming kind of thing, even 2329 02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:13,760 something vague. If I'm missing something, 2330 02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:16,160 definitely point it out for me and I'll give you a shout out. 2331 02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:18,960 I just I nothing I could see that that points to that. 2332 02:00:19,120 --> 02:00:21,280 Plenty of things are predicted. Plenty of things are seen. 2333 02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:23,960 The Red Wedding of course, is one of those things that comes 2334 02:00:23,960 --> 02:00:28,680 out even in the ghost of high arts visions, but nothing after 2335 02:00:28,800 --> 02:00:32,760 if she passes it her life force on because her maybe she feels 2336 02:00:32,760 --> 02:00:34,520 complete. Her children she finds out are 2337 02:00:34,520 --> 02:00:37,520 alive. She's murdered enough Lannisters 2338 02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:41,640 and frays to to be satisfied. What happens? 2339 02:00:41,640 --> 02:00:43,840 Does she pass her life force on to somebody? 2340 02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:47,040 Now? Back in the day before A Dance 2341 02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:51,040 with Dragons, before A Feast of Crows, when we only knew the 2342 02:00:51,040 --> 02:00:53,480 barest existence of Stoneheart because obviously she's the last 2343 02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:56,360 chapter of A Storm of Swords. The theory one of the theories 2344 02:00:56,360 --> 02:01:01,760 were was that she'd redeem herself in the with regards to 2345 02:01:01,760 --> 02:01:06,960 Jon Snow and her treatment of him by passing her life force on 2346 02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:09,000 to him. It doesn't seem like that's the 2347 02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:10,760 case though. It seems like Melisandre is 2348 02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:13,120 right there and she's more likely to do it, let alone the 2349 02:01:13,120 --> 02:01:14,440 fact that that's how it went on the TV show. 2350 02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:16,880 Which it's not necessarily strong evidence the TV show, but 2351 02:01:16,880 --> 02:01:19,000 it certainly isn't helping the other argument. 2352 02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:23,360 It surely doesn't push toward things toward Stoneheart, which 2353 02:01:23,360 --> 02:01:25,160 it couldn't because Stoneheart wasn't on TV. 2354 02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:28,600 So I don't know, maybe maybe it's like Barrack where he 2355 02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:31,800 passes his life force on to someone who he she thinks was 2356 02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:34,520 killed unjustly. Maybe she has some sort of 2357 02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:38,320 repenting moment or she sees somebody that needs to go on 2358 02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:41,240 that's more important, someone who is needed. 2359 02:01:41,240 --> 02:01:43,640 I don't know why she would perceive it that way, But this 2360 02:01:43,640 --> 02:01:45,560 is George R Martin. We can't predict what he's going 2361 02:01:45,560 --> 02:01:47,560 to do. He's he's his level of 2362 02:01:47,560 --> 02:01:50,800 creativity is certainly beyond our ability to predict his 2363 02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:52,760 creativity. It could even be someone like 2364 02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:54,560 Brienne. Like, what if Brienne dies and 2365 02:01:54,560 --> 02:01:56,240 he brings her back or she brings him. 2366 02:01:56,320 --> 02:01:58,800 She brings her back. Like that seems not very likely, 2367 02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:01,520 but even that's possible. She just realizes she treated 2368 02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:04,360 Brienne badly. She realized that she was was on 2369 02:02:04,360 --> 02:02:07,520 this quest all along. I don't know how she would learn 2370 02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:08,640 that. I don't know how she would learn 2371 02:02:08,640 --> 02:02:10,040 that Brand was sincere about that. 2372 02:02:10,040 --> 02:02:13,200 But it's possible, right? So if all the characters got 2373 02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:16,160 from the show, this is also probably the one George was the 2374 02:02:16,160 --> 02:02:18,960 most vocal about. He even said to Michelle Fairley 2375 02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:22,880 after the end of the season with the Red Wedding Season 3, he 2376 02:02:22,880 --> 02:02:25,640 said, see you next season. That was awkward because she was 2377 02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:28,240 like, I'm not coming back. She knew already. 2378 02:02:28,280 --> 02:02:31,600 But he didn't. So yeah, not the best of 2379 02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:33,880 communication. They're showrunners to George. 2380 02:02:34,360 --> 02:02:37,520 So she's a very unusual and tragic and murderous character. 2381 02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:40,600 The murderousness is fueled by a lot of the tragedy, too. 2382 02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:43,320 Her supernatural elements are also pretty unique. 2383 02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:47,240 Not directly raised by a red priest, but seemingly empowered 2384 02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:50,280 by the magic of Relore, expanding on what we know to be 2385 02:02:50,280 --> 02:02:55,920 possible in that regard and just deepening the level of raised 2386 02:02:55,920 --> 02:03:00,480 beings, undead beings in the story, widening that umbrella. 2387 02:03:01,120 --> 02:03:04,840 One of the very few people raised from the dead who isn't a 2388 02:03:04,960 --> 02:03:07,240 ice white. It gives us more knowledge and 2389 02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:09,480 what fire whites are. And it's, it's pretty 2390 02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:11,640 fascinating. And I hope we learn more and not 2391 02:03:11,640 --> 02:03:16,120 just from Stoneheart, but from maybe from John, maybe from who 2392 02:03:16,120 --> 02:03:19,800 knows who else. Our trivia question today was 2393 02:03:19,880 --> 02:03:22,080 Lady Catlin is famously killed at the Red Wedding. 2394 02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:24,800 What was the original location George planned for her death? 2395 02:03:25,120 --> 02:03:27,880 The answer is beyond the wall. Wasn't any more specific than 2396 02:03:27,880 --> 02:03:29,000 that. Just beyond the wall. 2397 02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:32,560 The Starks were going to flee beyond the wall because of all 2398 02:03:32,560 --> 02:03:37,080 the Tyrion capturing Winterfell was the original plan or them 2399 02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:39,240 losing Winterfell instead of Theon or the Bolton's. 2400 02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:41,280 And yeah she was going to die beyond the wall. 2401 02:03:41,400 --> 02:03:44,400 So there you go our poll results. 2402 02:03:44,840 --> 02:03:47,400 The question was will Aria and Stoneheart meet yes or no? 2403 02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:51,240 77% of you said yes, 23% said no. 2404 02:03:51,240 --> 02:03:55,560 So most of y'all, more than 3/4 say yes. 2405 02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:57,920 I would put myself in that group. 2406 02:03:57,920 --> 02:03:59,240 I would say yes, I think they will. 2407 02:03:59,240 --> 02:04:01,480 What do you think of Shia? I said yes, but there was also a 2408 02:04:01,480 --> 02:04:06,680 debate in the chat about whether Arya has met Stoneheart because 2409 02:04:06,680 --> 02:04:09,160 Nymeria pulls Stoneheart's body out. 2410 02:04:09,160 --> 02:04:12,480 But I argue that that's not Stoneheart at that point, that's 2411 02:04:12,480 --> 02:04:13,840 a corpse. Yeah, she hadn't been raised 2412 02:04:13,840 --> 02:04:14,160 yet. Yeah, she. 2413 02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:16,480 Hadn't been raised yet, so I still don't think that counts, 2414 02:04:16,480 --> 02:04:18,080 but that was the debate that happened. 2415 02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:21,960 But she would recognize that if she saw Stone not walking 2416 02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:24,200 around, you would remember that moment and be like, Oh my God, 2417 02:04:24,200 --> 02:04:24,800 how are you? Yeah. 2418 02:04:25,360 --> 02:04:26,520 So but that doesn't. Yeah. 2419 02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:28,000 It doesn't get directly at this question. 2420 02:04:28,560 --> 02:04:31,520 So some other episodes mentioned that relate to this one. 2421 02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:36,120 Aria's list, Blackfish, Our Mercy chapter analysis, Our 2422 02:04:36,120 --> 02:04:39,160 Elaine chapter analysis, The Brotherhood Without Banners 2423 02:04:39,160 --> 02:04:41,760 episode, The Thoros of Mirror episode. 2424 02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:45,280 We have our Valariritis series for Feast for Crows and the 2425 02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:46,960 Dance with Dragons, the relevant chapters. 2426 02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:50,520 Janie, Cersei, Brienne, and of course, the Kevin epilogue, 2427 02:04:50,520 --> 02:04:53,080 which contains some of these related thoughts as well. 2428 02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:55,160 I believe I mentioned one or two other ones that relate to this 2429 02:04:55,160 --> 02:04:56,360 one. But you know, I can never keep 2430 02:04:56,360 --> 02:04:58,120 them all true, never keep track of them all. 2431 02:04:58,120 --> 02:04:59,560 We just have too many episodes. What do we have? 2432 02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:03,320 We have well over 500 episodes. Not that many if you subtract TV 2433 02:05:03,320 --> 02:05:04,880 episodes, but it's still over 300. 2434 02:05:05,040 --> 02:05:10,040 So as we go farther, deeper and longer, it becomes a little 2435 02:05:10,040 --> 02:05:11,960 harder to keep track of. But that's a good problem to 2436 02:05:11,960 --> 02:05:15,240 have, isn't it folks? Thanks Janina for her insight 2437 02:05:15,240 --> 02:05:19,800 and great takes on this topic. Thanks to Joey Townsend for our 2438 02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:22,760 intro music. Thanks to Michael Klarfeld for 2439 02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:26,040 his great map design. You can see it behind us and the 2440 02:05:26,080 --> 02:05:30,240 intro video. You can find him at KLARADO 2441 02:05:30,240 --> 02:05:33,280 x.de. Link should be in the 2442 02:05:33,280 --> 02:05:37,480 description. On behalf of Ashea, I'm Aziz. 2443 02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:40,040 We'll see you next time, and you know what to do. 2444 02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:43,840 Until then, Balar Riritas.