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The Curious Case of Cold Hands. 
Unlike quite a few characters 

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we've dealt with or focused on, 
his story appears to be 

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complete. 
But that doesn't mean we won't 

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learn more about him, like, say,
who the heck he was. 

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And the implications surrounding
his story itself are far, very 

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far from complete. 
This might be what matters more.

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As much as I'm curious who his 
identity is, who he was, this 

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might be of lesser importance 
than what he can do or what he 

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suggests is possible for others 
to do or others to do with a 

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capital O because cold hand 
scratches the surface regarding 

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the magical potential and 
potency of Green Seers. 

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Some of this parallels what the 
others are capable of, which 

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might have originally emanated 
from the children. 

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Cold Hands is at the Nexus of 
these concepts, a Ranger and an 

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undead skin changer, perhaps 
beyond the wall sent to bring 

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Bran to Bloodraven's cave. 
Yet he cannot pass the magical 

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barriers on either of those 
himself. 

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So he is affected by magic 
intended to keep out the whites,

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but he lacks many, if not most 
of their traits. 

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Despite the mystery, or perhaps 
in part because of it, he's 

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absolutely one of the most 
unique characters in The Song of

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Ice and Fire. 
And by doing a deep dive on him,

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we can inch ourselves closer to 
some of the central mysteries of

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the Northern Old gods, others 
new Long night, whatever you 

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want to call it. 
Plotline all that and more on 

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this episode of History of 
Westeros podcast. 

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Hello, and welcome back, 
everybody. 

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We have another great one for 
you. 

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Every Sunday when we do live 
streams, they are at 3:00 

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Eastern and we do a live stream 
most Sundays. 

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You can catch that on YouTube 
afterwards, but if you wait a 

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little longer you can catch it 
an edited version on Spotify or 

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a audio only version also on 
Spotify or anywhere you catch 

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podcasts. 
It's also available ad free if 

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you listen on Patreon. 
We are Sean less today, no Sean.

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But I do want to shout Sean out.
And of course, I want to shout 

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out Nina, whose notes are in 
this episode, as they are in 

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most episodes, and they're very,
very helpful to us, extremely 

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helpful to us, especially on 
topics like this where we have 

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to do a lot of imagining and a 
lot of what we're working on is 

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thematic and deep dives and 
guessing. 

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It's all very well. 
It's not certain. 

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So it's it really pays for me to
have other people helping out, 

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and Nina is a huge help. 
On her blog right now there's a 

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post about the narrative 
significance of Viserys egg not 

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hatching, meaning Rainier son 
Viserys if there is any at all. 

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It's not guaranteed for an egg 
to hatch, but it seems strange 

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for Rainier's kids to go 4 for 
5:00 on that, and it's a good 

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answer that she has for that 
question, so check it out. 

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Good queen allie.tumblr.com If 
you have any questions, you can 

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send them to us at 
westeroshistory@gmail.com. 

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For example, Let us know who you
think Cold Hands is and what his

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character tells us. 
Any surrounding mysteries like 

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that. 
Perfect opportunity to weigh in.

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Reason I say it's a perfect 
opportunity is it's very wide 

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open. 
We don't have a lot of answers 

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here, so guesses are very 
appropriate. 

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And of course, at the end of 
this episode I'll mention some 

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other ones that relate to this 
one. 

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If you want to stay immersed, 
we'll be able to keep that going

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for you by giving you 
suggestions on related episodes 

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as well. 
I'll give you the answer to this

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trivia question. 
Who gives this mysterious Ranger

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the nickname Cold Hands? 
Where does that name come from? 

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The answer will be revealed 
during the episode if you're 

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paying close attention, but you 
may already know. 

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Now here's a character that 
presents a bit of a problem for 

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our usual starting point 
process, which is you know, we 

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like to do character focused 
episodes and often how we start 

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it is well you'll see after this
quote regarding his first 

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appearance. 
Brother, the shout cut through 

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the night. 
Through the shrieks of 1000 

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Ravens. 
Beneath the trees, a man muffled

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head to heels in modeled blacks 
and Grays sat astride an elk. 

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Here, the writer called. 
A hood shattered his face. 

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He's wearing blacks. 
Sam urged Gilly toward him. 

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The elk was huge, a great elk, 
10 feet tall at the shoulder, 

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with a rack of antlers near as 
wide. 

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The creature sank to his knees 
to let them mount. 

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Here, the rider said, reaching 
down with a gloved hand to pull 

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Gilly up behind him. 
Then it was Sam's turn. 

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My thanks, He puffed. 
Only when he grasped the offered

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hand did he realize that the 
rider wore no glove. 

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His hand was black and cold, 
with fingers hard as stone. 

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So that's his first appearance 
as a member of the undead or 

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semi dead or whatever he is. 
Which of course is a question 

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for us this episode, but we may 
have seen him before as a living

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person, so we'll we'll maybe 
address that as we run through 

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the possibilities of what his 
identity is during this episode.

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Now, of course, immediately 
calling out the word brother is 

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a pretty telling way to enter. 
I mean, this is a really 

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exciting, unexpected debut. 
Like, this guy appears on stage 

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on screen and you're like, wait,
who is this person or person? 

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Is that even the right word to 
use? 

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Yes, it is. 
But dead person or living person

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is a fair question. 
Yeah, and dead question is the 

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correct answer. 
But they didn't know that. 

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At this point, we're trying to 
put ourselves in Sam and Gilly's

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minds in the moment of the scene
and, you know, a Ranger rescuing

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them. 
That's not too strange. 

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There's Rangers about, you know,
they ran away from Craster's 

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Keep, but there there's Rangers 
around the elk, though, that's a

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little odd, right? 
A a giant elk too, One that can 

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lift all three of them and is 
like 10 feet tall. 

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I mean, this is indeed a great 
elk. 

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And all the Ravens, like, what 
is that about? 

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That's strange. 
But they're too distracted by 

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nearly being killed by whites, 
which might be even stranger 

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than all the Ravens. 
And of course the the hands are 

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like, wait, what's going on with
these hands? 

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Why aren't you wearing gloves, 
man? 

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And that's the end of the 
chapter, so it goes off page 

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from there. 
And not to mention that Sam and 

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Gilly were about to die to white
small paw. 

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There was no sign of an other, 
but more whites were there, 

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including several of the worst 
mutineers like Lark the 

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Sistermen, who was part of 
Chad's conspiracy to murder 

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Mormont on the 1st. 
And then of course, those 

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different mutineers killed 
Kraster at I mean killed Well 

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and Kraaster. 
They killed Mormon and Kraaster 

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at Kraaster's Keep. 
So all sorts of hell was 

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breaking loose north of the wall
at different times, different 

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places. 
So maybe Cold Hands was watching

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this activity, following the 
great ranging, watching from 

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afar. 
And of course, if Bloodraven is 

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overseeing all this or is in 
direct control of it, he's 

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probably been watching through. 
Mormon's Raven, for example. 

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Could have been his means of 
keeping track of what's been 

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going on. 
But there's so many ways for him

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to watch a bird. 
Watching from afar or several 

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birds is really easy to imagine 
that's possible. 

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We wouldn't have to have seen 
that. 

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I mean, we're in a giant forest 
after all. 

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Now this is Sam 3 from A Storm 
of Swords, so it's Chapter 47 of

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82. 
So a little bit past the halfway

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point, and we called it in Val 
Aritas for a song of Isis Fire. 

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We called this chapter. 
Hands of Cold are always cold. 

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Yes, and this is Sam Gilly, and 
the baby's journey from the 

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village to the night Fort 
happens off page. 

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But I really wonder about what 
happens. 

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Like they talk to cold hands. 
What does he say? 

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Is there any other information? 
They must have traveled for 

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several days with him? 
Maybe we kind of roughly guessed

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that it took 2 1/2 weeks. 
There are there has been some 

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work done by some people on 
estimating timelines. 

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Like there's the Google Sheets 
of sung by some fire timeline 

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project and that project guesses
about 2 1/2 weeks would have 

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passed of them traveling. 
So yeah, unless they were like 

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Sandor and Arya going, you know,
days without a single one of 

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them uttering a word, which 
doesn't really seem like 

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something Sam would do. 
Sam's a little more talkative 

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than that, and Gilly as well, 
and they would at least talk to 

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each other. 
So there there's got to be some 

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interesting things that came up 
off page there between them. 

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And maybe one day we'll find 
out. 

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Maybe Sam will bring that up. 
He'll talk to John, Undead John 

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or someone, and maybe some of 
these concepts will be raised 

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again. 
Raised. 

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Get it? 
Yeah, you get it. 

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And the Night Four chapter from 
Bran's point of view is chapter 

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57. 
So it's 10 chapters later after 

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this. 
And that is Bran's last chapter 

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until A Dance with Dragons. 
So yeah, so cold Hands of course

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is not in that night for a 
chapter, but he's mentioned 

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obviously Bran and and Sam 
discuss him. 

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Sam tells him that he's out 
there waiting for him and all 

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that. 
The Bran 1A Dance with Dragons 

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is the chapter where they take 
shelter in that long haul. 

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They learn he's dead. 
Although Bran was already 

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suspicious of that. 
But they come out and say it. 

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Then they they also learn he's 
killed. 

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Those turn cloak Rangers and 
they seem to eat human flesh, 

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Those turn clock Rangers in 
particular, and that's the 

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chapter where he says your 
monster. 

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Brandon Stark and Brand, two of 
a dancer Dragons. 

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They reach The Cave and are 
attacked by whites. 

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And while the children appear to
blast some of those whites with 

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fire and save Brand and company,
Cold Hands himself appears to 

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have been torn apart and ending 
him for good. 

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And of course, I say ending him 
for good, apparently because 

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they killed him long ago, is the
line that comes shortly after 

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once they get inside from Leaf. 
And then Bran only has one more 

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chapter in a dance with Dragon's
Orb period, and that's the one 

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where he's learning and down in 
the caves and jump going into 

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Hodor. 
It's all sorts. 

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Lots of time passes in that one,
but there's no mention of Cold 

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Hands in that one. 
So from Bran's POV, we see the 

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Knight Fort and then the Black 
Gate, but the other way around 

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for safer looking at it from 
Cold Hands. 

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So he guided them to the night 
for it showed them the black 

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Gate. 
And then Sam opened it right 

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with the oath. 
And then he just waited there 

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while Sam and Gilly went inside.
And when they got there, Bran 

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was already there with with his 
friends. 

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Now we might ask why cold Hands 
bothered to save Sam and Gilly 

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in the 1st place. 
I mean, hey, maybe it's just a 

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good deed, but no, it's actually
more than that. 

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It's he couldn't pass the wall 
he couldn't go into the night 

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for he needed someone to open a 
human Ranger, specifically 

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someone that had said the oath 
to open the gate, go in, get 

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Bran and lead him back out. 
So he was hindered by the magic 

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on the wall. 
He needed a human cat's paw to 

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do his bidding, which is 
interesting because cold hands 

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himself might be the cat's paw 
of bloodraven. 

205
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,640
So it's like multi level cat's 
paws here. 

206
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,040
So Sam and Gilly were thus 
bloodravens indirectly means to 

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00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,560
get to Bran or rather to get 
Bran to come to him. 

208
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,240
And of course if you recall as 
soon as he sees Bloodraven for 

209
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,800
the first time in his tree, he's
like you see me as I am and you 

210
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,560
see why I could not come to you 
like yeah I guess so you Mr. in 

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00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:45,440
a tree guy. 
So moving forward here's a 

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00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,240
revealing quote. 
Why? 

213
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,280
Didn't he come with you? 
Mira gestured toward Gillian, 

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00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,400
her babe. 
They came with you. 

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00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,480
Why not him? 
Why didn't you bring him through

216
00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,280
this black gate too? 
He He can't. 

217
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,600
Why? 
Not. 

218
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,680
The wall, the wall is more than 
just ice and stone, he said. 

219
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,560
There are spells woven into it, 
old ones and strong. 

220
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,720
He cannot pass the wall, so he 
had some idea who he was looking

221
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,560
for. 
Cold hands, the one, Right. 

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00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,880
But he doesn't necessarily know 
exactly what he looks like. 

223
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,880
He didn't know he was crippled, 
for example. 

224
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,920
He doesn't know brands lost the 
use of his legs. 

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00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,800
That wasn't something that cold 
hands told them to look for. 

226
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,360
He didn't say, hey, get the, you
know, go in there and get me 

227
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,000
this person, the one that 
doesn't use his legs, you know, 

228
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,800
he just said he's in there, you 
know? 

229
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,040
And at first they thought it was
Jojen, you know, easy mistake to

230
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,360
make, right? 
But it's interesting that even 

231
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,880
though he's a Ranger, 
apparently. 

232
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,280
I mean, it's possible, as as 
Mira points out, that anyone can

233
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,440
wear black cloak. 
You know, it doesn't mean he's 

234
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,280
definitely a Ranger. 
I assume he's a Ranger. 

235
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,640
He's wearing the the Nights 
Watch gear. 

236
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,240
It would be a little weird to 
put all that on just to pretend 

237
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,760
to be a Ranger, but it would 
make some sense to to get them 

238
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,280
to make sure that you're 
trusted. 

239
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,360
Like, OK, this guy's a Ranger. 
I can trust him, you know. 

240
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,040
But if if this is just a raised 
dead being, why not pick a 

241
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,320
Ranger that was already wearing 
the clothes, you know? 

242
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,400
But the point of that is, even 
having been a Ranger, he 

243
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,760
couldn't open the gate, right? 
So the the oath didn't matter 

244
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,080
for him, I suppose Maybe he 
could open it and still not walk

245
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,440
through. 
Maybe he can open the door but 

246
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,520
not pass the threshold. 
But either way, that's kind of 

247
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,600
an interesting little conundrum 
that the spells in the wall are 

248
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,760
stronger than the oath get, 
allowing you to pass the gate 

249
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,040
like one seems to trump the 
other. 

250
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,400
And here's continuing on with 
the scene in the night for it. 

251
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,000
Here's another quote. 
Are you? 

252
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,800
The one Jojen turned to look at 
her. 

253
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,120
The. 
One he. 

254
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,480
Said that Sam wasn't the one, 
she explained. 

255
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,160
There was someone else, he said.
The one he was sent to find who?

256
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,880
Said. 
Bran demanded. 

257
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,680
Hold hands, Gilly answered 
softly. 

258
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,160
So yeah. 
Cold Hands knew there would be 

259
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,720
people in the castle. 
Now how Again a bird magic. 

260
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,520
There's a lot of ways that we 
can't name but so we can't maybe

261
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,080
get at the specific method. 
But it matters that he knew. 

262
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,920
It matters that some sort of 
magical means alerted to him of 

263
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,400
their presence. 
So he didn't know what exactly 

264
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,280
where Bran was, but he did he 
know that he was at the night 

265
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,360
Fort. 
Maybe the they passed a tree and

266
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,680
that alerted them. 
Maybe Blood Ravens. 

267
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,720
Ravens were searching around and
they finally found him and that 

268
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,600
information was passed the cold 
hands somehow. 

269
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,520
And then Sam realizes that Bran 
is John's brother and Sam says, 

270
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,040
hey, I'm John's brother too, you
know, nights watch brother and 

271
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,560
that starts to turn the tide of 
trust. 

272
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,520
Of course it's summer trusting 
Sam that really turns Bran's 

273
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,400
mind. 
And Sam also says you would not 

274
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:50,680
have found the Black Gate 
without it. 

275
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,600
So this was also crucial to 
making the connection and 

276
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,280
getting them into cold Hands. 
Presence was actually just 

277
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,960
showing them where the Black 
Gate was. 

278
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:01,640
I mean Sam and Gilly wouldn't 
have found the Black Gate 

279
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,160
without cold hands either, so it
was multi step here. 

280
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,840
Cold Hands shows Sam and Gilly 
where the Black Gate is. 

281
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,760
They go in and lead brand and 
company to the Black Gate after 

282
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,960
that rather. 
And an I4 is huge down there. 

283
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,840
That's what she said. 
So there's a lot of steps, a lot

284
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,520
of walking and all that. 
Now moving on when they're 

285
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,160
discussing the nature of him and
they realize what this person 

286
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,080
is. 
It's a bit of a conundrum, isn't

287
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,160
it? 
Because this is Sam who they 

288
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,320
trust. 
He's, he expresses, he knows 

289
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,080
John and they tell Sam that 
John's alive, but and they trust

290
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,920
Sam not to tell anyone that they
saw him because Bran's. 

291
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,000
The fact that Bran's alive needs
to be kept secret, especially 

292
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,120
from Bolton's but from other 
people as well. 

293
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,000
So it's strange for them to have
the realization they do about 

294
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,240
who Cold Hands is and what he is
after this moment of trust and 

295
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,080
and being placed in this beings 
hands. 

296
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,640
And this is the quote that comes
from that conversation. 

297
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:00,760
He's. 
Dead. 

298
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,720
Bran could taste the bile in his
throat. 

299
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,960
Mira, he's some dead thing. 
The monsters cannot pass so long

300
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,960
as the Wall stands and the Men 
of the Nights Watch stay true. 

301
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,920
That's what Old Nan used to say.
He came to meet us at the Wall, 

302
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,560
but he could not pass. 
He sent Sam instead with that 

303
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,000
wildling girl. 
Now something. 

304
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,320
Interesting about the Storm of 
Swords. 

305
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,040
At this time in the book, this 
concept isn't just happening. 

306
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:34,640
Here we have Barack Dondarian, 
and at the end of the book we 

307
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,640
have Lady Stoneheart, and here 
we have cold hands. 

308
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,720
So many readers figured out that
he was undead before this quote.

309
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,640
I mean, there's a lot to suggest
that, but this is where Bran and

310
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,240
company fully realize it. 
And So what a shock that must 

311
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,320
be. 
Because yeah, again, there's 

312
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,880
that trust thing. 
They they're with someone they 

313
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,720
think they trust. 
But then they're realize it's 

314
00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,120
like a a story from old Dan but 
not of the good guys, not the 

315
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,640
the the legendary heroes you 
know, the the dead people the 

316
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,040
dead things. 
He calls it. 

317
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,319
So what a strange realization. 
But they also realize they don't

318
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:09,800
have much choice. 
They talk to Jojen. 

319
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,079
They're like yeah, well what 
what choice do we have and 

320
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,480
branded already like I said he 
branded already suspected that 

321
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,319
cold hands was dead 
subconsciously because when he's

322
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:19,319
inside summer. 
When he's skin changes inside 

323
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:21,560
summer, cold hands smells like 
dead meat. 

324
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,000
He doesn't smell right. 
He smells rotten. 

325
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,599
Of course, wolves having a 
vastly stronger sense of smell 

326
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:31,240
than humans really does make it 
an interesting perspective, 

327
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,200
right? 
So what about before though? 

328
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,360
Like we're trying to talk about 
where cold hands was before and 

329
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,040
and other times we're trying to 
figure out where he was where 

330
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,920
about, like before he rescued 
Sam and Gilly, where was he? 

331
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,080
So if we consider again, he 
showed up at the village for 

332
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,040
that rescue and LED them to the 
knife for it and waited outside 

333
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,560
while they go in. 
And then Brand and company 

334
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,920
emerge and he leads into The 
Cave. 

335
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,840
That's what we know. 
But what about? 

336
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,200
What about before that? 
So the the others never picked 

337
00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,520
up on his presence, but that's 
probably because of the Ravens. 

338
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,600
Bran notices that the Ravens are
his eyes and ears, and they 

339
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,280
range far and wide to keep an 
eye out for any danger. 

340
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,640
So that seems explained pretty 
well. 

341
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,120
But where did again, where did 
he start? 

342
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,680
Where did the cold hands begin 
his journey? 

343
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,720
As a dead person, let alone as a
living person, Which I suppose 

344
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:17,880
is a completely different 
question. 

345
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,880
Was he at The Cave? 
There's a bunch of bodies at The

346
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,360
Cave. 
As we'll see later, when they 

347
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,720
arrive there, a bunch of whites 
rise up and some of them are 

348
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,000
wearing Nights Watch black. 
That doesn't mean they've always

349
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,160
been there, 'cause, as we see in
Brand three, Dance with Dragons.

350
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,960
As he's in there, more and more 
dead things show up to wait 

351
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,360
outside The Cave. 
They're pretty much all animals.

352
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,480
Well, they're all animals. 
Not pretty much. 

353
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,480
They're all animals, but it's 
like additional creepiness and 

354
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,320
something, you know, they 
they're gathering out there. 

355
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,440
So Bloodraven might have just 
picked one of the bodies that 

356
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,520
was sitting out there right in 
front of his cave and raised it 

357
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,560
or something else. 
Maybe it was raised and he took 

358
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,280
it over. 
He like, pushed the others out 

359
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,200
of the body and took it over for
himself. 

360
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,560
We don't know that that's even 
possible. 

361
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,120
It's just a theory. 
Maybe he raised him from afar. 

362
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,760
Maybe there's something entirely
else that some other form of 

363
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,160
magic that we're not aware of. 
But I'm guessing it's not 

364
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,080
raising him from afar because 
most of our guesses as to his 

365
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,960
identity don't really fit for 
someone raised for just this 

366
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,320
purpose, right? 
But I doubt he embarked from The

367
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,040
Cave as well, since he can't 
enter it anyway. 

368
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,120
And yeah, it's a little tricky, 
but part of the mystery for 

369
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,360
sure. 
So either they knew they meaning

370
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,920
Bloodraven and whoever else, I 
don't know. 

371
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,560
Probably just Bloodraven knew 
Brand would cross the Wall, or 

372
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:40,720
they knew he was heading towards
it. 

373
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,600
Yeah, maybe that's seeing 
through Summer, or maybe again 

374
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,040
through some Ravens that are 
just watching. 

375
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,040
Or maybe they just knew because 
Blood Raven sent dreams to Bran 

376
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,040
and maybe Jojen as well, and 
that is part of why they went 

377
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,960
north in the 1st place. 
So if they go north, he's got to

378
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,000
figure at some point they're 
going to have to cross the Wall,

379
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,320
and that's not an easy thing to 
do. 

380
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,560
So he sent help. 
But of course that help was 

381
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,080
incomplete because Cold Hands 
can't actually cross the wall, 

382
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,720
so he needed a helper. 
I wonder if Cold Hands was out 

383
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,920
in the region of the first of 
the First Men. 

384
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,240
It's. 
He was possible. 

385
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,760
He was hanging around there too,
you know. 

386
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,560
I don't really know. 
He could have been watching 

387
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,920
there. 
He could have been the one that 

388
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,080
planted the cache of dragon 
glass that ghost LED John to. 

389
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,880
He must most certainly showed up
after to rescue Sam, right? 

390
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,800
But that was after the mutiny at
Craster. 

391
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,360
So there's the whole fist of the
First Men. 

392
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,040
All that happens with the 
mystery of the cash left behind 

393
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,800
and all that, but it's possible 
Cold Hands was even around that 

394
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,200
far back, or at least the blood 
Raven was watching and Cold 

395
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,560
Hands sort of took over his job 
there. 

396
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,520
His his close up. 
I don't know exactly what word 

397
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,520
to use there. 
We don't have to assume cold 

398
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,000
hands. 
His first task was to find 

399
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,640
Brand. 
He may have been used for other 

400
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,720
purposes ahead of that and then 
this was his next job, but I 

401
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:59,000
kind of think he just was raised
or used for this task only 

402
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,200
because bringing Bran to The 
Cave was a crucial moment and 

403
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,840
there may not have been much 
else that mattered. 

404
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,440
I mean that seems to be the only
thing Blood Raven is focused on 

405
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,760
is just get Bran here, train him
up and and worry about the big 

406
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,960
bad and not much else at all. 
If anything else at all, nothing

407
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,920
matters but stopping the others.
So cold hands is someone handed 

408
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,880
off from Sam to Bran's POV 
right? 

409
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,280
He he's starts with Sam then 
moves over to Bran and stays 

410
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,920
with Bran's chapters. 
And like I said, Bran only has 3

411
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,040
chapters in To Dance With 
Dragons. 

412
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,200
The first two have cold hands in
them and the third one doesn't. 

413
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,680
So let's go to the part where 
cold hands kills the nights. 

414
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,600
Watch traitors 'cause this is 
like, for them, this is even 

415
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,560
more shocking. 
They're like, wait, who are you?

416
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,720
You are a Ranger, but you just 
killed other Rangers and we're 

417
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,240
supposed to trust you? 
I don't quite get it. 

418
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,760
Here's the quote. 
They were foes. 

419
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,040
Men of the nights watch. 
You killed them. 

420
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,480
You and the Ravens. 
Their faces were all torn and 

421
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,000
their eyes were gone. 
Cold hands did not deny it. 

422
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,360
They were your brothers. 
I saw the wolves had ripped 

423
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:07,960
their clothes up, but I could 
still tell their cloaks were 

424
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,800
black, like your hands. 
Cold hands said nothing. 

425
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:13,600
They're. 
Shocked. 

426
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,840
Yeah, he insists. 
They're foes, and it's a tough 

427
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,400
sell, 'cause they're Rangers. 
You're you're trying to explain 

428
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,160
the nuances of, yeah, not all 
Rangers are good guys. 

429
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,800
You shouldn't assume they're 
good people just 'cause they're 

430
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,880
wearing nights, Watch cloaks. 
That's not something that a lot 

431
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,240
of people who aren't at the wall
realize, especially younger 

432
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,840
people. 
A lot of people have a well, 

433
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,280
they have the view of the watch 
that say John had before he went

434
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,800
there and people like Tyrion 
disabused him. 

435
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800
And then his own experience as 
well really taught him that, 

436
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,080
yeah, the watch is not just a 
bunch of noble Knights guarding 

437
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,160
the realms. 
There's a lot of terrible people

438
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,960
there that were forced to go 
there as criminals and and other

439
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,680
people that didn't belong there,
they didn't deserve to be there,

440
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,320
things like that. 
So he has to explain how he knew

441
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,320
they were foes, but he doesn't 
really. 

442
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,800
He just says they're foes. 
He just insists and expects them

443
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,840
to kind of accept that and I, 
but we still kind of wonder how 

444
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,920
he knew. 
It's not hard to guess, though, 

445
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,800
given that he showed up to 
rescue Sam and Gilly just after 

446
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,160
the mutiny at Craster's. 
He could have witnessed them or 

447
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,600
overheard them. 
Maybe he heard. 

448
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,400
Maybe he was there when Chet was
talking to Small Paul and Lark, 

449
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,960
the sistermen and all those 
other guys in his in his POV 

450
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,080
chapter about their mutiny plan 
Could have been a Raven just 

451
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,080
sitting right there listening to
them talk. 

452
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,640
Or cold hands could be right 
over in the trees just 

453
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,000
listening. 
Something like that. 

454
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,840
Again, magic can cover a lot of 
bases here. 

455
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,960
Especially birds can change 
birds listening. 

456
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,160
That seems to be the easiest way
to explain it. 

457
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,680
I mean, you can also just have 
straight up mind reading, I 

458
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,200
suppose, but I I kind of doubt 
that. 

459
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,560
You know, people going. 
We do have that concept in A 

460
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,560
Song of Ice and Fire. 
We have glass candles and people

461
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,360
entering each other's dreams and
things like that. 

462
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,240
So it's definitely possible, but
that's a little specific, just 

463
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,440
for some people that wouldn't 
otherwise matter. 

464
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,240
Like if we're glass candles. 
Are kind of different too, like 

465
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,600
the mechanism of entering 
someone's dreams is different 

466
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,640
from entering your conscious 
self, yeah. 

467
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,280
Yeah, yeah, the. 
Unconscious is very different to

468
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,920
me. 
That's a good point. 

469
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,200
And as well, why would 
Bloodraven be paying attention 

470
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,280
to these low level nights, watch
people at all in the 1st place? 

471
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,920
Like he would have to have a 
reason to have been listening to

472
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,400
them. 
You know, like oh let me let me 

473
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,880
just what are these guys talking
about? 

474
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,120
Well, I'm just curious. 
Yeah, it seems like he would not

475
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:32,120
give a crap about these guys. 
He's not really concerned about 

476
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:34,320
what happens to these small 
group of nights Watchmen. 

477
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,720
He's concerned about the. 
Big picture. 

478
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,280
I'm just picturing like he goes 
into someone's dreams and he's 

479
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,760
like damn, you have some good 
dreams. 

480
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,960
I'm. 
Coming back here later, this is 

481
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,720
like, now this is a good dreamer
right here. 

482
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,240
And that's what you do. 
You got to find the good 

483
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,280
channels to watch, yeah. 
Yeah, some. 

484
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,720
People have boring dreams and it
was like or just. 

485
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,520
Nightmares every night. 
You're like, I'm never going to 

486
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,520
dollar US. 
Ed's dreams again, he thought 

487
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:58,760
it. 
Would. 

488
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,360
I thought it would be funny. 
I thought Dollar said brain 

489
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:02,680
would be funny. 
But no, it's horrible. 

490
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,440
That's why he's telling jokes 
all the time, because he's 

491
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,440
trying to. 
He's trying to tone down all the

492
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,560
horror coming from within his 
own mind. 

493
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,080
So there's a somewhat funny but 
also very gross irony here, 

494
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,480
right? 
Alo Lop Hand is found by Bran 

495
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,240
inside Summer. 
He's inside Summer when he finds

496
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,880
Alo Lop Hand with his throat 
slit and then he eats him right 

497
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,160
as Summer he eats aloe and then 
some of the other deserters that

498
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,400
were with Aloe. 
And the reason we know it's Aloe

499
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,440
is because of his lop hand. 
He's missing a hand and it 

500
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,240
wasn't chewed off by a wolf. 
It's got a leather strap and 

501
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,640
it's it's the same way it was 
described when he was a living 

502
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,840
person. 
So it's a it's a good way to 

503
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,600
tell the reader who this 
character is. 

504
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,320
George was careful to not just 
have them be bodies 'cause then 

505
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,280
it would be we would have no 
idea who they are. 

506
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,880
So this is ironic. 
Bran eats a human flesh as a 

507
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,520
wolf then wakes up as they're 
roasting meat and like, oh, and 

508
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,680
they're like bran, you almost 
missed the meal. 

509
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,080
He's like, well, I kind of was 
eating in my dreams, so that's 

510
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,200
why I didn't wake up. 
And it's been figured out by a 

511
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,080
lot of people, us included, but 
not nearly only us, that the 

512
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,960
food that they're eating is 
those night watch Rangers. 

513
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,680
So Bran wakes up from eating 
nights, watch Ranger in his 

514
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,040
dreams as summer to eating it 
for real as himself. 

515
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,960
And that's what they should have
been shocked about, right? 

516
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:32,280
Instead of being shocked about 
dead Rangers who really were 

517
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,640
deserters and bad guys, they 
should be shocked about the fact

518
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,880
that they're eating them. 
He tells them he found a sow. 

519
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,320
Like, yeah, right, a sow. 
Sure. 

520
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,160
In the cold and snow. 
Yeah, don't think about it too 

521
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,400
much. 
So what they see as questionable

522
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,960
killings as they're eating 
human, leads to pointed 

523
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,480
questions like why don't you 
take off your mask? 

524
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,320
Why won't you tell us who you 
are? 

525
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,400
They're starting to get really 
nervous and scared and and it's 

526
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,960
all like it's a snowball effect.
Hey Northern pun. 

527
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,160
And that's when they start 
demanding answers and he gives 

528
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,680
them some answers but not 
complete answers. 

529
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,600
And it's only gets scarier, I 
suppose in some ways. 

530
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,680
Now if we jump forward after 
that chapter, the next we're 

531
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,120
going to see they've made it to 
the green Seer cave. 

532
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,000
At least they're close to it. 
They're walking up to it, and 

533
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,240
the Ravens get really loud. 
Bran thinks that even Summer is 

534
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,040
scared and Cold Cans declares 
they are here. 

535
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,480
He also tells them he can feel 
their coldness, then tells them 

536
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,400
they have to hurry towards The 
Cave mouth. 

537
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,400
He basically suspects an ambush,
but has no choice. 

538
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,320
They can't wait it out. 
What's going to happen? 

539
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,440
The the whites can outweigh 
anyone, right? 

540
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,880
They're just sitting there in 
the snow bank, and it's 

541
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,480
definitely going to get worse if
night falls and the sun is going

542
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,080
down it. 
During the scene, they were 

543
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,880
rushing and they barely get 
there before it's dark. 

544
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,120
He points out that White Walkers
leave no footprints as well, 

545
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,160
which we saw in the prologue, 
but it's a good reminder and 

546
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,360
it's something that these 
characters didn't know except 

547
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,440
for maybe having heard. 
That is a legend in old Nan's 

548
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,040
stories. 
So it's interesting, very 

549
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,760
interesting to me that cold 
hands can feel the coldness of 

550
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,680
the whites. 
If that's something imbued in 

551
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,720
him or it's because Bloodraven 
is using him, or if it's a power

552
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:31,240
he had in life, I mean, they're 
Darwin, the Ranger who has the 

553
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,680
wooden teeth. 
He talks about something like 

554
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,640
this. 
He says you can smell the cold 

555
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,400
and it's just a different scent.
And someone's like, you can't 

556
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,360
smell cold. 
And he's like, yes, you can. 

557
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,920
And this guy, Darwin, it seems 
to know what he's talking about.

558
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,240
He's not just telling stories. 
There's a couple of times where 

559
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,680
he seems to be right. 
And he's a veteran of the Watch 

560
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,640
and has been a Ranger for a very
long time. 

561
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,320
In fact, Chet and his people are
like, well, we better kill 

562
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,560
Darwin if we're going to get 
away, 'cause if we don't kill 

563
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,400
that guy, he'll find us. 
That's how good he is. 

564
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,680
So that's important. 
And the fact that cold hands, 

565
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,920
getting back to the fact that 
cold hands can feel these 

566
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,480
things, he can feel their 
darkness is it's really 

567
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,200
interesting to me. 
And it ties into something about

568
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,960
him that is kind of dark. 
And there's a lot of dark things

569
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,360
about him, not just his, you 
know, clothing, but can he feel 

570
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,760
like, what kind of human 
emotions does he have? 

571
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,400
What kind of human feelings does
he have? 

572
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,720
Does he have sensations? 
Does he just feel them less? 

573
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,840
He clearly can feel cold, so 
it's not nothing. 

574
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,920
He can feel stuff. 
Does he feel pain? 

575
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,920
Just the fact that he's living 
in a body that's falling apart, 

576
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,760
that all the blood is congealed 
in in his hands And. 

577
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,520
And what does this mean for the 
other undead characters? 

578
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,080
What does this mean for Lady 
Stoner? 

579
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,040
What does it mean for John? 
John's far more relevant I think

580
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440
because you know he has more in 
common with cold hands than Lady

581
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,200
Stoneheart does. 
But of course they both, they 

582
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,920
all have things in common now he
knows cold hands does that he 

583
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,040
can't make it to The Cave. 
He knows this is pretty much it 

584
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,640
for him and because there's a 
ward on The Cave he can't pass, 

585
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:03,920
just like you can't pass the 
wall. 

586
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,040
I I assume it's basically the 
same magic and it seems to work 

587
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,640
the same way, the same being 
seemed kept out. 

588
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,080
While he's saying this a Raven 
lands on his shoulder and says 

589
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,800
come come like this additional, 
you know, someone else adding 

590
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,680
their voice to it, saying, you 
know, more encouragement is 

591
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,960
needed. 
Not just Cold Hands speaking, 

592
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,960
but the Raven. 
And the Raven is probably Blood 

593
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,680
Raven, which maybe argues that 
it's there's two different 

594
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,680
beings here. 
Cold Hands is operating. 

595
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,400
You know he's taking orders from
Blood Raven, but isn't 

596
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,120
necessarily, it's just a puppet.
But that isn't necessarily true 

597
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,040
either because we've seen that 
skin changers control multiple 

598
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,080
animals at once. 
So maybe he's controlling cold 

599
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,400
Hands and this Raven and all 
those other Ravens. 

600
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,720
Maybe the Elk Two, I don't know.
But it's possible we have to 

601
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,360
include that in the range of 
options. 

602
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,280
So what a turn around that is. 
They're scared of cold hands. 

603
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,440
They're understandably so. 
He's undead. 

604
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,760
That's scary. 
On the other hand, it might help

605
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,880
them get used to the idea of a 
dead person, given, you know, 

606
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,440
later on when they not all of 
them. 

607
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,480
I don't suppose all of these 
characters will still be alive 

608
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,040
when, when and if John and Brand
are reunited. 

609
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,480
Well, some people might be put 
off by John's deadness, if it's 

610
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,360
even pointed out, which I think 
it will be. 

611
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,600
I don't think they'll be able to
conceal that like like they did 

612
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,000
on on that TV show because of 
the physical changes like they 

613
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,200
go through like your blood 
flowing to your hands and all 

614
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,560
the stuff. 
I don't think that's just not 

615
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,880
going to happen to John, right? 
Like, no, John is immune to 

616
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,640
those things. 
His body is special, right? 

617
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,360
So yeah, I think they're going 
to have to deal with that. 

618
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Not just a scar that he can 
cover up with his shirt. 

619
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,480
Oh, he's just built different. 
Josh just built different. 

620
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:39,280
Literally. 
Now. 

621
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:39,960
Literally. 
Yeah. 

622
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,960
Literally, yeah. 
So they were. 

623
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,520
That's really moving to me. 
They were scared of him. 

624
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,800
They questioned him, they were 
threatened by him. 

625
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,160
But he sacrificed himself to get
them those last 60 yards to 

626
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,480
safety. 
Or did he? 

627
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,000
Or is he just a body that that 
that has no feelings or 

628
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,920
personality, so maybe we 
shouldn't care. 

629
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:01,800
But I I don't really lean that 
way. 

630
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,160
I really feel like there's 
probably some personality in 

631
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:10,200
there, some life, some sense of 
being, some remains of a person,

632
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,960
a soul, are still in there. 
Kind of like they're still the 

633
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,440
spirits of children are in all 
the Ravens or their spirit, 

634
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,320
Second life concept, things like
that. 

635
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,120
So I think there's someone in 
there, even if it's maybe 

636
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,520
multiple someones, maybe blood 
Raven. 

637
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,280
Plus the original person who 
called hands was and as well I 

638
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,600
pointed out back at the 
beginning that Bran notices that

639
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,320
some of these whites on that 
last 60 yard dash to safety that

640
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,760
attacked them were nights watch.
They were nights watch black. 

641
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,800
They had the cloaks, the ring 
male whatever. 

642
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,040
Some of those people might have 
known the man who had been cold 

643
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,360
hands in life and he might have 
known them as he may have even 

644
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:52,760
recognized of like a some sort 
of item of clothing or birthmark

645
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,000
or something. 
We recognized Bloodraven's 

646
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,960
birthmark on him. 
That's that's one of the big 

647
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,040
clues as to who the three eyed 
crow really was. 

648
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,080
The the greens here in the tree,
that birthmark really gave a lot

649
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,600
away. 
Someone might have, you know, be

650
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,040
really tall or really short, you
know, and there's little things 

651
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,480
that could give away who 
somebody is besides just seeing 

652
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,480
their face. 
And I wonder if any of that was 

653
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,960
like cold Hands was feeling 
that, thinking that just 

654
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,040
noticing that triggering some 
memory that's been long gone. 

655
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,200
But if we back up a little bit 
to try to start talking about 

656
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,840
who he is, let's think about 
that. 

657
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,680
Let's get into that subtopic and
and that's going to cover a lot 

658
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,200
of the rest of this episode with
his goal and his route and his 

659
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,400
time with Bran and company up to
what appears to be his ending. 

660
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,000
We can maybe start to guess his 
identity. 

661
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,360
And then we can run each guess 
through that path, the short 

662
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,040
path, and see if it works, see 
if it fits, see the pros and 

663
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,440
cons of of each guess. 
Well, let's start here, he said.

664
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,240
Jojen frowned this cold hands 
that. 

665
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Wasn't his true name, Said 
Gilly, rocking. 

666
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,760
We only called him that, Sam and
me. 

667
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,720
His hands were cold as ice, but 
he saved us from the dead men, 

668
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,840
him and his Ravens, and he 
brought us here on his elk just.

669
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,560
Like the phrase Three Eyed Crow,
they make up a name because they

670
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,040
don't have a given name. 
They didn't know his name was 

671
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,440
Bloodraven. 
They didn't know his name was 

672
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,159
Brendan until they asked him 
later. 

673
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,080
And this is a bit of a pattern 
of brands, POV, his arc, 

674
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,600
nameless beings that that he 
deals with. 

675
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,320
Although apparently cold hands 
came from Sam the name. 

676
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,239
Either way, nicknames for beings
that don't have names. 

677
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,400
And yeah, cold Hands, the three 
Eyed Crow, all those ancient 

678
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,360
dreamers in The Cave, they don't
really have names. 

679
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,800
The others are effectively 
nameless at this point and will 

680
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,000
probably remain that way. 
The children as well, they do 

681
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,520
have names, but they're 
unpronounceable to humans, so 

682
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,040
they have to give them names 
too. 

683
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:56,639
Leaf and Snowy, Locks and Scales
and Black Knife, whatever all 

684
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,080
their names are. 
I don't have them written down. 

685
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,800
All those are just nicknames 
given to them by Mira and Bran, 

686
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,560
I guess. 
Guess Jojen didn't do the 

687
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,160
nicknaming it specifically, says
Brandon Mira in the book if I 

688
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,880
remember correctly, the Jojen's 
like, I don't need nicknames, 

689
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,520
but let's not just get stuck on 
cold hands alone. 

690
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,600
I I brought this for up for a 
minute as well, but let's come 

691
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,920
back to it here. 
Salmon Gilly's description of 

692
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,280
cold hands has them mesmerized 
and as well we are. 

693
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,160
But the animals are really 
interesting too. 

694
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,440
It kicks off some additional 
dialogue here. 

695
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:32,080
Quote his. 
El said Bran wonderstruck his 

696
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,160
elk said Mira startled his. 
Ravens, said Jojen. 

697
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,360
Hodor said Hodor. 
Was he green? 

698
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,440
Bran wanted to know. 
Did he have antlers the fat? 

699
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,800
Man was confused. 
The elk. 

700
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,720
Yes, the elk did have antlers. 
Very large antlers. 

701
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:52,120
But the elk was not green. 
Nor was the man. 

702
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,240
Yeah, look, even a creepy, 
mysterious undead figure like 

703
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,920
cold hands can be associated 
with some Comic Relief if you're

704
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,800
George R Martin, right? 
But the relief is brief and 

705
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,440
rare. 
It has a dark implications 

706
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,400
because well a Green Man and all
this other stuff the this takes 

707
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,960
us back to the ancient, ancient 
past and things like sacrifice 

708
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,280
and the times that Bran maybe 
sees in his last vision. 

709
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,520
The last thing he sees in his 
final vision in his final 

710
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,200
chapter is tasting the blood 
from a where would sacrifice 

711
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,360
that? 
He's seeing through and it's 

712
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,880
still like the first thing he 
sees when they're like this will

713
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,240
wedge you to the trees. 
And he sees a series of visions 

714
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:40,520
and it culminates with this 
human sacrifice. 

715
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,000
It's like this is what this is 
all leading up to. 

716
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,440
But Yikes, Yeah, but it is kind 
of funny to think of cold hands 

717
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,400
as green or a green elk. 
Just that mental picture like, 

718
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,280
yeah, that's 10 foot tall green 
elk. 

719
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,440
Whoa, yeah, I like it. 
So that was A Storm of Swords. 

720
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,200
Don't forget, the meeting of Sam
and Bran's respective parties is

721
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,760
also joyous for several reasons.
So this Comic Relief comes at a 

722
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,120
time when they're happy. 
They're like, wow, I found Bran 

723
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,240
finds out that he's with someone
that he likes. 

724
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:14,440
He finds out that John is alive.
That's he, or he rather Sam 

725
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,480
finds out John is alive. 
There's lots of positivity in 

726
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,520
this scene, even though they're 
going to soon have to part and 

727
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,960
go about their respectively 
dangerous lives. 

728
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,440
But it's a really nice kind of 
brief moment of away from the 

729
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,200
horror. 
And there's another joke in that

730
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,760
too, where remember, Mira shoves
Sam off his feet with her frog 

731
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,400
spear when they're thinking he's
like the thing that goes bump in

732
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,080
the night or the thing the the 
the the thing that walks at 

733
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,000
night or whatever it's called. 
And they're scared of him 

734
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,640
because he's all big and huffing
and puffing and he's all like, 

735
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,440
you might have, I might be 
bleeding and like, let's check 

736
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,840
under your shirt and he's like, 
and she's like you're wearing 

737
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,320
mail. 
You've got armor on. 

738
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,280
Like, there's no way all I did 
was push you. 

739
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:57,600
And he's like, yeah, but it 
hurts. 

740
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,680
So it's pretty funny. 
And of course, as, as I pointed 

741
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,960
out before, it's loaded with 
vibes, minds of Mauria stuff 

742
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,400
going on here. 
Of course, if you recall from 

743
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,600
from our interview with George 
RR Martin, which you should 

744
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,160
listen to. 
Absolutely, Or watch if you 

745
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,640
haven't, we brought that up to 
him. 

746
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,400
And he was like, did I was like,
I didn't do that on purpose. 

747
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,840
It's like I'm thinking to 
myself, man, there's like 12 

748
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,640
homages to the minds of Mauria 
in this one scene. 

749
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,520
And he's like, yeah, I guess 
subconsciously I just did that 

750
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,120
like, yeah, I guess so. 
So it's pretty darn good though.

751
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,640
Well done George. 
Well done. 

752
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:38,240
So yeah, this same kind of 
moment when it comes back later,

753
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,200
it's it's it's really comparing 
these you've got this sort of 

754
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,120
light hearted meeting of these 
characters and then pretty 

755
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,360
quickly after it returns to 
horror quote. 

756
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,720
Outside the night wind howled, 
bleak and black. 

757
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,320
The trees were full of Ravens 
screaming. 

758
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,080
Cold hands did not move. 
A monster, Bran said. 

759
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,440
The Ranger looked at Bran as if 
the rest of them did not exist. 

760
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,720
Your. 
Monster Brandon Stark. 

761
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,640
Yours. 
The Raven echoed from his 

762
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,080
shoulder outside the door. 
The Ravens in the trees took up 

763
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,960
the cry until the night would 
echoed to the murderous song of 

764
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,880
yours. 
Yours, Yours, Jojen. 

765
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,200
Did you dream this? 
Mira asked her brother. 

766
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,720
Who is he? 
What is he? 

767
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,480
What do we do now, Jojen? 
Sort of non answers the dream 

768
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,360
part, which I take as no, he 
didn't dream about Cold Hands. 

769
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,400
I think he would have said so if
he had. 

770
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,200
He's pretty blunt, Jojen is. 
He doesn't seem to hold back. 

771
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,440
So although maybe he is holding 
back a little bit about his own 

772
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,480
fate 'cause there's maybe one or
two things he's not saying, but 

773
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,480
I don't think he's he holds back
about this. 

774
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,520
And so I think he would have 
said something if there were a 

775
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,480
dream, but also if Cold Hands is
controlled or puppeted by 

776
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,600
Bloodraven. 
I think that's who he'd dream 

777
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,120
of. 
I think he'd dream of the the 

778
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,920
being behind it, not the vessel 
body, right? 

779
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,840
Like like when Melisandre has 
the images of them through her 

780
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,720
dream, she sees them as the the 
corpse lore with the wooden face

781
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,040
and the the boy with the wolf 
head, and the kind of concepts 

782
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,760
are merged. 
So I'm not sure about that, but 

783
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,320
I lean towards thinking that it 
would be Bloodraven or a Raven 

784
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,320
or something like that, that he 
would envision if he had a 

785
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,320
dream. 
But yeah, he says no. 

786
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,800
He's like he basically says no 
or through through non 

787
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,400
answering. 
But he does say we have no 

788
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,360
choice, we have to follow him. 
It's very much like what Jorah 

789
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,840
says to Danny in The Red Waste. 
We might not make it going 

790
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,000
forward, but we'll definitely 
die if we go back. 

791
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,080
And it's very much the same 
here. 

792
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,960
They've gone too far in this 
icy, frozen winter land to 

793
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,720
possibly get back to anywhere. 
They have to go forward and you 

794
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:55,880
know it's the same thing in The 
Red Waste. 

795
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,120
There's no way they can go 
trudge back through that desert 

796
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,480
that they've come all this way 
through. 

797
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:03,440
Hopefully they can emerge out of
it soon, but they definitely 

798
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,960
won't make it going back. 
So I think that's pretty 

799
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,720
interesting. 
And Mira asking Jojen is like 

800
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:14,280
usually Mira is takes the lead 
in spots like this, but she's 

801
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,800
kind of out of her depth. 
She's not. 

802
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,960
I mean, the supernatural stuff 
she has no answers for. 

803
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,520
That's that's definitely for her
brother and Bran to to take 

804
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,440
stock of or to to weigh in on 
and and they don't have anything

805
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,080
other than logic. 
Jojen doesn't have a magical 

806
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,680
answer. 
He's like, yeah, if we go back, 

807
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,320
we're going to die. 
We have no choice. 

808
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,040
That's not anything about a 
dream. 

809
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,480
OK, let's talk a little bit 
about some of the specifics with

810
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,240
cold hands, like his his traits,
his features quote. 

811
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,320
Who are you? 
Why are your hands black? 

812
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,360
The Ranger studied his hands as 
if he had never noticed them 

813
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,560
before. 
Once the heart has ceased to 

814
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,520
beat, a man's blood runs down 
into his extremities, where it 

815
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:59,080
thickens and congeals his. 
Voice rattled in his throat, as 

816
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,560
thin and gaunt as he was his. 
Hands and feet swell up and turn

817
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,960
as black as pudding. 
The rest of him becomes as white

818
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,240
as milk. 
Mira. 

819
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:13,040
Reed rose her frog spear in her 
hand and a chunk of smoking meat

820
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,480
still impaled upon its tines. 
Show us your face. 

821
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,080
The Ranger made no move to obey.
Can I tell you you're quote 

822
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,520
reading. 
He's really funny because you 

823
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,880
have a deep Such a deep voice 
compared to thin and gaunt voice

824
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,360
is not yours. 
I know, and nor do I have a 

825
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,920
rattle. 
My voice rattled a mother. 

826
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,000
I need. 
I was like, how do I do? 

827
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,960
How do you do that? 
Like what kind of voice actor 

828
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,320
can do that? 
Like, what is that even sounds 

829
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,720
like after you make your voice 
rattle, you need to have some 

830
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:47,200
serious talent to do that. 
Yeah, maybe need some, some some

831
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,720
studio effects to make that 
happen. 

832
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,640
So yeah, obviously there's the 
frozen hands and a few other 

833
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,960
features. 
The fact that he won't take his 

834
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,240
mask off. 
But yeah, he calls himself 

835
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,400
nights or doesn't call himself 
nights. 

836
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,920
Watch. 
He wears nights watch black and 

837
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:01,360
calls Sam brother. 
That seems pretty 

838
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,920
straightforward. 
Being thin and gaunt doesn't 

839
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,440
tell us very much because he's 
dead. 

840
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,480
So like that, that's just 
desiccation and, you know, decay

841
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,720
covering his face. 
Now, I don't think there's a big

842
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:16,200
secret here. 
I I think he's probably just, 

843
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,360
his face is horrifying and he 
doesn't want to freak them out. 

844
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,480
You know, like he clearly 
doesn't need it for warmth, so 

845
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,160
it's not functional. 
So I think it's purely just for 

846
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,400
their benefit, because it 
probably looks awful, like maybe

847
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,200
the some bird ate away his lips 
or something, Like his eyes are 

848
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,600
still there. 
So maybe not, because apparently

849
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,240
that's one of the first things 
they go for. 

850
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,040
Yuck. 
Yeah, that's exactly what you 

851
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,640
all needed to know, right? 
What's the first part of the 

852
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,200
dead body that animals will 
feast on? 

853
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,640
Yeah, it's the eye. 
It's the soft parts, right? 

854
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,920
His eyes are pretty soft so the 
cold doesn't affect him. 

855
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,680
So he yeah he's not using that 
for warmth. 

856
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,080
So I I really think like 
something horrifying is has been

857
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,880
below that mask. 
It would just I mean these are 

858
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,560
children. 
He's trying to like hey children

859
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,200
follow me into the cold and 
darkness. 

860
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,720
Like it wouldn't help if he had 
like a you know a rigor mortis 

861
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,520
face or the the skull grin or a 
bunch of shattered teeth or who 

862
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,280
knows like it's probably 
terrifying. 

863
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,520
So it it makes sense to cover 
that I think. 

864
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,080
And of course obviously he's 
sent to find brand. 

865
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,600
We know that by either by 
Bloodraven or the children, or 

866
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,240
the whole Green Seer network. 
I'm saying just Bloodraven, but 

867
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:20,920
I think whenever you say 
Bloodraven, we have to recognize

868
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,360
that he's in the Green Seer 
network now. 

869
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,640
It's not just him, it's him and 
all the Green Seers before him, 

870
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,400
all their souls or whatever, for
lack of a better term, their 

871
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,320
spirits, their beings are all in
there. 

872
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,200
It's a collective. 
He's just the least. 

873
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,760
He's like the mouthpiece of the 
collective. 

874
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,640
He's the most recent living part
of it. 

875
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,280
We know there's been other 
living parts of it that have 

876
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,720
passed over prior centuries. 
The children are still part of 

877
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:45,560
it, but in a different kind of 
way. 

878
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:50,560
So yeah, I say blood Raven, but 
anytime I say blood Raven, I 

879
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,920
really mean, you know, the 
whole, the whole package here. 

880
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,720
And Speaking of that whole 
package, then Elk and Ravens, is

881
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,920
that Blood Raven from afar doing
that or is cold hands actually 

882
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,720
doing that? 
Is cold hands actually 

883
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:07,760
controlling the elk, which, you 
know, the elk might just be, you

884
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,200
know, not, there might not be 
much magic involved there at 

885
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,400
all. 
But the Ravens, clearly, the 

886
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,520
Ravens, clearly there's magic 
going on there. 

887
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,320
They're using their eyes and 
ears. 

888
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,960
They all yell in unison. 
They talk. 

889
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,280
Sometimes they literally give 
instructions. 

890
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,680
So that seems very 
straightforward. 

891
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,160
I'm not, like I said, I'm not 
quite as sure about the elk, but

892
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,000
it seems pretty likely that 
there's some skin changing going

893
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,440
on there, or at least some 
control. 

894
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,920
It seems very normal for the 
children and that the old God's 

895
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,680
magic to do that sort of thing. 
When he kills the elk, he 

896
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,800
whispers a prayer in a language 
they don't recognize. 

897
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,320
Now, Old Tongue, probably, but 
it's relevant to point out, 

898
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,360
because if this is a language 
that this person spoke in life, 

899
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,680
that might be a clear to their 
identity. 

900
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,520
But again, if it's bloodraven, 
then he's learned the Old Tongue

901
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,640
at some point. 
You know he learned it at Castle

902
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,480
Black. 
Maybe he learned it while he was

903
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,240
handed the king. 
No idea. 

904
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,120
But I wouldn't put it past him. 
Knowing is the point. 

905
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,600
It's certainly very feasible. 
And that's of course the Ravens 

906
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,160
as well come up big in a lot of 
places. 

907
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,920
That's how he knew the Wolves 
were following them. 

908
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,320
How he knew the Nights Watch 
deserters were following them, 

909
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:21,440
How he has kept away from the 
undead, and maybe the others as 

910
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,440
well. 
Of course, we must repeat he 

911
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,440
can't pass the Wall or 
Bloodraven's cave, but knew 

912
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,160
where the Black Gate was. 
That's another one we could just

913
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:31,840
pin on Bloodraven. 
Perhaps, but maybe not. 

914
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,240
If this guy is older than 
Bloodraven, he might have had 

915
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:38,880
the knowledge in his, you know, 
dead brain of where this gate 

916
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,080
was, something that maybe even 
Bloodraven didn't know. 

917
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,640
And why wouldn't Bloodraven know
the about the Black Gate? 

918
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,520
Well, he might, but the knife 
forts been closed for 200 years.

919
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,920
They shut that thing down before
Blood Raven was born, so it's no

920
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,480
guarantee he was aware of it. 
Now, as I said, it's also easy 

921
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,120
to assume he could have. 
He was Lord Commander, he could 

922
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,120
have gone there, he could have 
sent men there to explore it. 

923
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,960
There's plenty of reasons He 
could have read about it in a 

924
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,800
book that obviously Castle Black
has a substantial library. 

925
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,680
He's a reader, He knows things. 
He may have already known about 

926
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,240
it before he got there. 
Maester Amon could have told him

927
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,480
about it. 
There's a lot of things, lot of 

928
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:17,920
ways. 
We don't know which of the many 

929
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,160
things it is, but it's not far 
fetched or anything like that. 

930
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,880
But it doesn't have to be him. 
Cold hands, the living as a 

931
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,480
living person, whoever he was, 
might have been the way that 

932
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,680
this was rediscovered. 
We have never seen a white talk.

933
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,560
Can they? 
Maybe, But that's something 

934
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,960
about cold hands that seemingly 
is unique, or at least we 

935
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,120
haven't seen it elsewhere. 
He also doesn't have blue eyes. 

936
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,080
The whites very distinctly have 
blue eyes very distinctly. 

937
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,440
It's one of their most notable 
features. 

938
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:53,120
It's a pretty telltale sign that
they're being controlled by the 

939
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,880
others, and it's certainly 
telltale that in this case they 

940
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,240
don't. 
So I guess if they're controlled

941
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:02,600
by a Green seer, if Blood 
Raven's controlling him, that's 

942
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,120
an if. 
It's not a sure thing. 

943
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,760
But let's let's use that theory 
for a minute and say that is the

944
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,560
case. 
Well, there's no eye color 

945
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,080
change. 
There's nothing notable about 

946
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,280
Cole hands eyes. 
They never hardly referred to 

947
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:15,640
his eyes. 
Other than that there's 

948
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,680
apparently there's nothing 
notable about them. 

949
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:19,600
Or so that would have come up 
right? 

950
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,720
Like if he had rainbow eyes, 
someone would have said 

951
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:25,200
something, you know? 
Or if he had a third eye, that 

952
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,040
would have, that would have been
mentioned. 

953
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:29,720
Kind of like the the theories 
around Septal Amor. 

954
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:32,520
Like could she really have 
stunning purple eyes like a 

955
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,800
Chara Dane if Tyrion just never 
like Tyrion. 

956
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,720
Just didn't notice that. 
Like why George just didn't 

957
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:40,120
write that He's like, yeah, her 
eyes are purple, but I decided 

958
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,400
not to write that down. 
That seems cheat, like cheating.

959
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,200
So I I think cold hands eyes are
most likely not a factor. 

960
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,760
They're not interesting so 
they're probably just two 

961
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,800
regular brown black eyes or 
something like that. 

962
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,000
But he like a white he can't be 
near fire. 

963
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,240
It's very dangerous to him. 
He sits far, far from it when 

964
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,760
he's in the long haul, when 
they're roasting their meat. 

965
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,440
So it's particularly dangerous 
to him, to all undead beings. 

966
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,800
Perhaps that makes sense. 
That really dried out there. 

967
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,880
There's no blood, you know, 
There's no moisture in your skin

968
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,080
from all the regular moisture 
that we have as living beings 

969
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,960
that dead things don't have. 
And we do see this first hand 

970
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:28,200
when small Paul has Sam and like
a bear hug and I mean dead Small

971
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:33,200
Paul Sam grabs a burning ember 
and shoves it in Small Paul's 

972
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,080
mouth and for a second nothing 
happens. 

973
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,960
But then like his head burst 
into flames and and his grip 

974
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,480
loosens and the white just burns
up and collapses. 

975
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,880
So that's interesting, right? 
So you he cold hands doesn't 

976
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,080
want that to happen to himself. 
But that's almost sad to me. 

977
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,880
He can feel cold. 
We see him outside The Cave 

978
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,880
saying, don't you feel it there?
It's cold, which is very 

979
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,560
alarming to me that he can feel.
So does he want to feel the heat

980
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,280
of the fire? 
But he just can't get close to 

981
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:06,200
it because it'll kill him. 
It's like, that's kind of sad. 

982
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:08,400
Actually, I feel sad for a 
corpse. 

983
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,880
George, what are you doing here?
How are you getting us to do 

984
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,960
these things, man? 
So of course he also says you're

985
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,000
monster Brandon Stark. 
And the other clue being that 

986
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:21,840
they killed him long ago. 
A lot of debate has happened in 

987
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,120
the fandom over that phrase long
ago. 

988
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,960
Like, whose perspective are we 
talking about here? 

989
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,880
And it's it's impossible to know
for sure the the speaker. 

990
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,160
Is Leaf speaking to Bran though 
are you speaking is Leaf 

991
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,360
speaking to Bran on Bran's terms
like well this is a child so I'm

992
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,520
speaking to him. 
What would what would seem like 

993
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,000
a long time to a 7 year old? 
What is long ago to a 7 year 

994
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,480
old? 
Or is Leaf Speaking of long ago 

995
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,440
on her terms? 
Because if it's on her terms, 

996
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,120
woo long ago from the 
perspective of a children of the

997
00:50:54,120 --> 00:51:00,000
Forest, well that's but your 
imagination is the limit there. 

998
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,440
Yeah, It's kind of where I think
I've, I've fallen on different 

999
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,120
sides of this, this 
interpretation over the years. 

1000
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,040
I think currently I'm like, if 
Leif's talking about long ago 

1001
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:17,200
from her perspective that's so 
long ago, it seems too long to 

1002
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,400
me for it to actually be from 
her perspective. 

1003
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,760
So I think currently I lean 
towards long ago from Bran's 

1004
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:24,840
perspective. 
I do too. 

1005
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,360
I don't think the corpse. 
I don't think it's feasible for 

1006
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,800
a corpse, even in the frozen 
north, to last that long. 

1007
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,160
Well, it's not. 
Even the corpse part, to me, 

1008
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,920
it's like the clothing. 
Oh yeah, you know, like, yeah, 

1009
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,440
you're right. 
Like it's like the other 

1010
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,000
logistical things like like I 
they would have to re clothe 

1011
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:40,720
him, I think. 
I don't know. 

1012
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,640
So I I just tend to lean like 
long ago for her. 

1013
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,480
Isn't like 100 years, you know, 
to be like it would be much 

1014
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,440
longer than that I I think so, I
think. 

1015
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,800
I side with you. 
I think it's like a few years 

1016
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,040
ago, Like like long ago. 
Meaning. 

1017
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,080
Yeah, a long time for someone to
have been dead, but not a long 

1018
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,000
time in terms of historical 
length. 

1019
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,960
But your mileage may vary. 
We're certainly guessing here, 

1020
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,600
so this isn't something I can 
claim authority on. 

1021
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,400
And who's this and? 
Also, I'll say I would love it 

1022
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,920
if anyone went back to our 
previous episodes where we 

1023
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,720
talked about this very subject, 
because I think you might have 

1024
00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:17,920
found us like arguing the other 
side of things, you know, eight 

1025
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:18,960
years ago. 
It's entirely. 

1026
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,960
Possible you've been doing this 
show so long that I sometimes 

1027
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,800
don't know what my opinion was 
on some of these topics, 8 or 

1028
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:26,120
10. 
Years. 

1029
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,480
I always encourage y'all. 
If you remember, if you went 

1030
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,160
back to an old episode and 
you're like actually your 

1031
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,040
opinion was very different back 
then, I'd love it if you pointed

1032
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,520
out to us that would be. 
Entertaining. 

1033
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,760
I agree with that. 
Yeah, if y'all. 

1034
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,400
Cause some of you will have 
listened to those old episodes a

1035
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,360
lot more recently than we have. 
You know, I don't listen to our 

1036
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,600
old episodes unless. 
We're re editing them, whichever

1037
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,240
you so often, it happens, That's
true. 

1038
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:49,240
It does occasionally happen, but
yeah, not for, not for pleasure,

1039
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:52,720
that's for sure. 
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to myself

1040
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:53,680
eight years ago. 
It's like. 

1041
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,520
That Kanye West joke. 
Oh yeah. 

1042
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,560
Or he's like, just listening to 
dope. 

1043
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,280
These Beats are dope. 
This podcast, Are you listening?

1044
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:07,680
To your own music, yes. 
So yeah, and they who is they? 

1045
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,120
They killed him long ago. 
I think the simplest answer is 

1046
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,840
the same they that is killing 
him right then. 

1047
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,320
The whites, the others. 
Well, the servants of the 

1048
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,080
others, the undead raised 
beings, or what killed him in 

1049
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:26,080
the 1st place, and maybe is what
raised him to fight alongside 

1050
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,880
his other dead brothers before 
this magic of the children 

1051
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:35,600
intervened somehow to release 
him from their grip in death and

1052
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,520
put him in their own grip. 
So I don't even, I'm not sure 

1053
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,840
it's actually much better for 
the dead guy, but but maybe it 

1054
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,040
is. 
So yeah, is this necromancy or 

1055
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,920
warging or a combination of 
both? 

1056
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:49,360
What? 
What's the deal here? 

1057
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,000
Like what animates him? 
I mean, we already know powerful

1058
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:57,400
green seers can control people. 
We've seen Bran control Hodor. 

1059
00:53:57,720 --> 00:53:59,200
This is a Gray. 
Seer this is a. 

1060
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,960
Gray seer control the dead. 
That's a real Gray area. 

1061
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:04,960
Good point. 
Yes, that's it. 

1062
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,600
From now on, it's a Gray seer. 
Yeah, it is a Gray area. 

1063
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:08,720
It's like, well, they're not 
alive. 

1064
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:16,400
You can control a dead person. 
So Vermeer's master hag on said 

1065
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,920
it was a abomination for skin 
changers to try to control human

1066
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,400
beings. 
Somehow I don't think Bloodraven

1067
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,920
gives a crap about that. 
He doesn't care a about skin 

1068
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:32,960
changer, societal scruples, nor 
does he care about anything 

1069
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,760
other than the ends justify the 
means. 

1070
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,040
I think that's the kind of 
character he is, the kind of 

1071
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,360
person we. 
That's the conclusion we arrived

1072
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,040
at when we did multiple deep 
dives on him. 

1073
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,040
We've done 3 episodes on this 
guy. 

1074
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,560
Plus he comes up an awful lot in
other places and that's where I 

1075
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,480
land. 
I land on him being ruthless, 

1076
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,120
but mostly a good guy, just not 
he'll. 

1077
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,320
He'll do anything to achieve 
ends that he believes are 

1078
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,240
correct here. 
It's a little harder to argue 

1079
00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:58,960
with him. 
I mean, it's one thing to 

1080
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,920
execute someone dishonorably 
because you think that it's 

1081
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,720
better for the realm, because 
there's a lot of debate as to, 

1082
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,760
you know, what's the right way 
to handle justice and laws. 

1083
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,240
This is a completely other 
matter. 

1084
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:15,560
And I yeah, pun intended, this 
isn't about justice or laws. 

1085
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,640
This is a fight for survival. 
This is a only one of us can 

1086
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,600
live on this continent. 
This is a we. 

1087
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,840
This This world isn't big enough
for the both of us. 

1088
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:30,040
So things like standard ethical 
and moral considerations have to

1089
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,640
be shifted. 
The ground is shifted. 

1090
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,520
This isn't humans versus other 
humans. 

1091
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,240
We're not considering the rights
of this isn't human nature. 

1092
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:37,480
We're not considering human 
rights. 

1093
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,920
We're considering the potential 
for human extinction and the 

1094
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,320
others who are not human, human 
or humane or a species that if 

1095
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,520
they were real we might not 
recognize them as one that had a

1096
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,360
right to life unlike every just 
about every other species that 

1097
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,880
does exist in in the real world 
that we would view it 

1098
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,160
differently. 
It's a completely different 

1099
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,200
paradigm. 
If there was a being that 

1100
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,480
existed in the real world that 
was absolutely dedicated to 

1101
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,920
eradicating all human life, I 
think we could even the like 

1102
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,120
most pacifistic you know, type 
of person. 

1103
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:13,440
The most all life has a right to
exist type person would be would

1104
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,120
be moved by that be like yeah, 
OK, maybe this is an exception. 

1105
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,520
We got to kill those you know we
can't coexist with that. 

1106
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,640
We can coexist with 99.99% of 
species but this thing no. 

1107
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,800
So it's tricky to getting at the
ethics of this with Bloodraven, 

1108
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,680
dealing with his as a hand to 
the king. 

1109
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,000
I think it's a lot easier to 
discuss even though it's not 

1110
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,840
easy. 
But with this, it's a lot 

1111
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,880
trickier 'cause our we just 
don't have common ethical ground

1112
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,600
in the real world to frame this 
in. 

1113
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,520
And even if we did, I think it's
safe to say that Bloodraven 

1114
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,400
would lean towards the side of 
whatever, whatever it takes. 

1115
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,840
I'll do any sort of evil, any 
sort of unethical thing if it 

1116
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:57,360
means saving humanity, which, 
yeah, I mean yeah, that a lot 

1117
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,800
of, a lot of the price should be
high, or we should be willing to

1118
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,800
pay a pretty high price to save 
everyone. 

1119
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:07,000
But getting back to the like 
logistics of the magic here, can

1120
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,520
green seers normally animate 
dead bodies? 

1121
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,560
I don't think so. 
But but what explains cold hands

1122
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,360
here? 
Did the others resurrect him and

1123
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,360
then Blood Raven wrenched that 
control away? 

1124
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,480
But he wouldn't have been able 
to just raise the thing in the 

1125
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,200
first place. 
It's it's peculiar. 

1126
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,760
It's puzzling. 
And if they can animate dead 

1127
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,000
bodies, whoa, that's we'll come 
back to that. 

1128
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,320
But wow, what a if Bran can 
start raising the dead. 

1129
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,400
I mean, that's that's not 
something I don't think anyone 

1130
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,440
expected to see coming. 
Like that is not on my Super 

1131
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,680
Skin Changer green seer bingo 
card. 

1132
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,240
You know, Arya or John. 
Can they do that too? 

1133
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,880
Then can they skin change into 
dead animals? 

1134
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,280
Probably not. 
But what if they can? 

1135
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,160
Or what if only Bran can? 
Because he's obviously more 

1136
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,720
powerful than either of them. 
So implication, the 

1137
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,280
implications. 
Because of the implication, it's

1138
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,280
pretty stunning. 
Yeah, Speaking of magic, it's 

1139
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,160
been a while. 
Now that we've been on Magic 

1140
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:07,040
Mind, it's been months now, and 
for for a drink that's supposed 

1141
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:12,080
to improve your focus over the 
long term, I can say it wasn't a

1142
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,680
short term bump. 
My focus remains strong. 

1143
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,120
Last week we talked about how 
all three of us have purchased 

1144
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,800
it ourselves beyond the supply 
they gave us, which I think is 

1145
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,320
pretty telling. 
Why would we do that if it 

1146
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,880
wasn't working? 
But today I had a really funny 

1147
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,680
experience and ashea can back me
up on this 'cause it might sound

1148
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,320
like I'm making it up otherwise.
But I told her we're sitting 

1149
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:33,800
here getting ready for our 
episode. 

1150
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,320
Said to her I haven't been 
thinking about coffee at all. 

1151
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,960
I haven't been thinking about 
having a cup of coffee, and I've

1152
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,360
been awake for several hours. 
The idea that I had wasn't even 

1153
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,680
it wasn't even on my mind. 
I just didn't even occur to me 

1154
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:47,400
very. 
Unlike. 

1155
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,720
That is weird. 
These is a coffee addict. 

1156
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,480
Yeah, I will. 
Wake up and I want that coffee. 

1157
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,720
So it was weird. 
And it was like, I had to stop 

1158
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,000
and think was like, wow, that's 
really interesting. 

1159
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,440
And I'm drinking one. 
I am having a coffee so it's not

1160
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,160
like. 
And again, my goal wasn't to 

1161
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,920
quit coffee, it was just to tone
it down a bit. 

1162
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,680
Drink less coffee, drink it less
often, maybe drink weaker coffee

1163
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,840
because I make it pretty damn 
strong, less strong today, less 

1164
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,520
amount. 
Like I I often have 3 cups, but 

1165
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,160
lately it's been one or two and 
have them spread out more often.

1166
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,680
So I'm adamant that it's working
for me. 

1167
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:25,840
I'm not just saying that. 
And I'm also strongly sure that 

1168
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,440
it's been working for me. 
I know I said there's some 

1169
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,400
amount of placebo effect that 
could be happening. 

1170
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,320
I don't think that's the case at
this point. 

1171
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,800
I think I can tell a more 
significant difference, but I 

1172
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,440
also still stand by my point 
that if something gives me a 

1173
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,680
placebo effect, it makes me and 
makes me more focused, then I'll

1174
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,120
take that too. 
Results the. 

1175
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,000
Result, Yeah. 
Results the result, but I I 

1176
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,280
actually do think that I I can 
tell a difference, but beyond 

1177
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,360
that, yeah and as. 
We've discussed in the past too.

1178
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,480
There's ingredients in Magic 
mind that have gone through 

1179
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,960
rigorous scientific testing and 
the claims are accurate. 

1180
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,720
So this isn't just yeah, it 
isn't just, well, my experience 

1181
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,360
says it's both. 
It's experiential and it's 

1182
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,120
scientifically tested. 
There you go. 

1183
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,840
I would love it if you try it 
out, if you let us know what you

1184
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:10,560
think. 
Absolutely. 

1185
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,120
You can go to 
magicmind.com/westeros and get 

1186
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,840
up to 56% off your subscription 
for the next 10 days with our 

1187
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:25,840
code Westeros 20, That's 
magicmind.com/westeros. 

1188
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:30,400
And use the code Westeros 20. 
And yeah, really, truly, if you 

1189
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,920
try it out, let us know. 
We'd love, we'd really like it. 

1190
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,840
Would love to hear other 
people's experience with this. 

1191
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,400
Yeah, just. 
If it's if it's helping you work

1192
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,480
more or get more focused or 
anything, whether it's helping 

1193
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,160
you recover for something or 
yeah, I don't know. 

1194
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,760
I imagine people are using it in
variety of ways and we'd love to

1195
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,560
hear what you're doing with it 
now. 

1196
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,560
It's one thing to get your day 
started, right? 

1197
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,680
It's another thing to keep your 
day going and functional all day

1198
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,400
long. 
If you're like me, I'm kind of 

1199
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,400
an all or nothing guy when it 
comes to work. 

1200
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,800
I don't really like to take 
breaks for very long or at all. 

1201
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,520
I just want to keep going. 
I want to. 

1202
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,320
If I'm focused, I stay focused 
because sometimes it's hard for 

1203
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,960
me to get back my focus once I 
lose it. 

1204
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,320
So when meal time comes around, 
it's something like a hassle to 

1205
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,640
me, You know, I'm like, I don't 
want to eat, I want to keep 

1206
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,560
working. 
But sometimes you just, you got 

1207
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,320
to eat, you got to stop, you got
to eat, you got to refuel. 

1208
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:25,160
But I appreciate having an 
option like factor meals where I

1209
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,080
can just pop into the kitchen, 
stick it in the oven or 

1210
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,760
microwave. 
If I'm I usually do the oven, 

1211
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,720
but I could do the microwave. 
It could be even faster if I 

1212
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,360
wanted because oven's only going
to take 8 minutes, 9 minutes, 

1213
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,520
that's pretty quick. 
I want to eat that and get back 

1214
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,600
to earning a living. 
You know, I'm I'm self-employed,

1215
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,480
I got stuff to do. 
So that's really valuable to me,

1216
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,600
to have something where it's not
a distraction, where I don't 

1217
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:45,760
have to sit there and take a lot
of time. 

1218
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:47,760
I don't have to leave the house.
I don't have to go make an 

1219
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,720
order. 
I can just pop it in, be done, 

1220
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,920
eat, get right back to it. 
That's really valuable to me. 

1221
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,520
And if you're like me, then you 
would benefit from factor meals 

1222
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,000
in your life. 
Potentially you get to choose 6 

1223
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,560
to 18 meals per week. 
You could pause, reschedule. 

1224
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,440
It's very flexible. 
That's nice because you might, 

1225
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,640
you might be traveling sometimes
and you don't want to end up 

1226
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,120
with a bunch of extra food that 
you can't eat. 

1227
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:13,720
It feels wasteful. 
So you have a lot of control 

1228
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,520
over how much you get. 
Another thing that they have in 

1229
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:18,440
particular that I like is the 
protein shakes. 

1230
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:23,360
Really good protein shakes. 
I had a a latte latte protein 

1231
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,840
shake that they included in the 
package they sent to us. 

1232
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:26,960
I really liked it. 
Actually. 

1233
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,480
There were several. 
I crushed them all. 

1234
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,200
They were super good. 
Sweet, but not too sweet. 

1235
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:32,920
Lots of caffeine. 
Love that. 

1236
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,120
Yeah, meanwhile. 
In my case, I really liked In 

1237
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,080
one of my meals there was a 
mashed cauliflower like a 

1238
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,840
cauliflower puree, and I 
happened to make that myself. 

1239
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,320
And it's a little bit of a 
tedious thing to make at home. 

1240
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,480
You cut up all the florets and 
blend it up. 

1241
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,280
It's really good. 
I highly recommend cauliflower 

1242
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:55,560
puree, but in trying the factor 
meals version I was like, OK, 

1243
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,880
this is this is actually very 
good and I can compare it to the

1244
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,880
one that I make myself and I 
stand by it. 

1245
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,360
It came with a chicken that was 
also really good and he's like 

1246
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,400
almond green beans and it was 
just a cool meal all around. 

1247
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,360
But I really want to shout out 
the cauliflower, which I was 

1248
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,920
ready to be very picky about. 
I think I. 

1249
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,360
That's one thing when you get 
food delivered, shipped to you. 

1250
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,240
Like I know some people are wary
about the vegetables you get, 

1251
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,600
but wow, the green beans and two
different meals. 

1252
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,280
I had green beans and they were 
really crunchy. 

1253
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,400
So that's that's really good. 
Got to appreciate that. 

1254
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,800
Now standard disclaimer applies 
whenever you switch a meal plan,

1255
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,680
if you're taking on a new diet, 
be careful with that folks. 

1256
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,680
You know you can give yourself 
indigestion or anything like 

1257
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,120
that. 
You don't want to rush into a 

1258
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,200
new completely new eating plan 
just all of a sudden. 

1259
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:48,640
So take or be ease into it if 
you're making a change, but this

1260
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,560
might be a really good fit for 
you, Head to 

1261
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:55,360
factormeals.com/westeros 50. 
Use the code Westeros 50 to get 

1262
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,640
50% off. 
Pretty straightforward Westeros 

1263
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:58,800
50. 
Make it easy. 

1264
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,000
Make it simple. 
Make it quick. 

1265
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:01,840
Back to meals. 
I have an interesting question 

1266
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,520
for you all. 
So I posted to our Facebook 

1267
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:07,120
group. 
Can Ungregor AKA the Kyborg, can

1268
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,040
he cross the wall? 
And 55% people said yes, 33% 

1269
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,440
said no, 11% said from the 
South, but he wouldn't be able 

1270
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,120
to come back again. 
Like he could cross into the 

1271
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:16,920
north but not come back again. 
That's an interesting point. 

1272
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,080
I didn't add that one. 
Suzanne Beam shout out. 

1273
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,240
Suzanne added that to the 
answers and several people 

1274
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:23,520
picked that. 
So I thought that was a good 

1275
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,840
alternate suggestion there, 
yeah. 

1276
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,640
I like that too. 
The idea that the magic is meant

1277
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,120
to block things from coming 
South. 

1278
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,040
Yeah, yeah, that does. 
That's a really good point. 

1279
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:35,720
Yeah, it's it's not necessarily 
A1. 

1280
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,840
It might be a one way street. 
Now the argument against that is

1281
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,840
silver wing right at Queen Alice
and flew silver wing to the wall

1282
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,000
and silver wing thrice refused 
to pass and the word used is 

1283
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:50,240
refused. 
That's the word used. 

1284
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,600
Not can't, not impossible, just 
refuse. 

1285
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:57,240
So. 
Dragons aren't necessarily the 

1286
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,080
type of magic that you would 
have expected to be blocked from

1287
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,920
going north. 
You know, like they aren't. 

1288
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,080
If you were to, if you didn't 
have this story and you were 

1289
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,040
asked, do you think Dragons 
could pass the wall? 

1290
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,040
I think people wouldn't. 
I don't think the majority would

1291
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,400
say no. 
You know what I mean? 

1292
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,920
Like, without that story, I 
don't think anyone would have 

1293
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,320
really guessed that, yeah. 
Yeah, that's true. 

1294
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:24,720
That's true. 
I mean, yeah. 

1295
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,840
And especially if you would use 
the TV show as a clue, which you

1296
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:31,000
shouldn't, but you would look at
the I don't blame you if you 

1297
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,040
can't. 
And like good magic and maybe or

1298
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,600
something that wasn't blocked 
and I would have at least Julie.

1299
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,520
A says can I propose the magic 
in the wall as a topics mood 

1300
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,280
suggestion? 
Yes, that's a great idea. 

1301
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:44,720
Well, topics mood is is 
complete. 

1302
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,880
Now, we haven't announced all 
the winners, but there will be 

1303
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,880
more topics, moods and there 
will be There is a. 

1304
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:50,600
Topics that come. 
Up here and there there's a 

1305
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,320
document. 
That these works on that just 

1306
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,160
has master list of topics that 
will be in future topics, moods,

1307
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,720
future things like that and so I
put that here so that these can 

1308
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,880
throw this in that document. 
That's right, we have a. 

1309
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,240
Large topics suggestion document
for all sorts of categories and 

1310
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,200
ideas and small topics. 
Big topics. 

1311
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,120
Yeah, it's a great. 
Topic, Julie. 

1312
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:12,600
Yeah, we've. 
Got all that Is a good good 

1313
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,320
suggestion. 
Very much guilty Undertaker asks

1314
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,600
a tough question. 
Do whites feel pain when they 

1315
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,280
burn or only relief if someone 
you know? 

1316
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,680
If someone just like heard you 
say that you know heard me say 

1317
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:23,760
that. 
Like if you're listening to this

1318
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,040
podcast out lied and you're just
like some random person you're 

1319
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,520
walking by someone's desk and 
you hear the you hear someone 

1320
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,920
ask do whites feel pain when 
they burn like whites? 

1321
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,800
Wait white people do white 
people, Why would they not feel 

1322
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,440
pain? 
Why would they feel relief? 

1323
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:39,440
Because that's the following 
question. 

1324
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,600
Or do they feel released because
their? 

1325
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:42,880
Soul being released, yes. 
Like a sunburn. 

1326
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:48,880
Yeah, I tell you, it's one of 
those things where it's like 

1327
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,920
Valerian, where if George had 
planned ahead for it to be on 

1328
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,800
screen or read out loud, you 
probably wouldn't have made 

1329
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,040
Valerian and Valyrian sound so 
similar. 

1330
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,280
And he might have gone with 
zombie instead of white. 

1331
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:03,720
But maybe not. 
I don't know. 

1332
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,880
I don't know. 
And Julie says maybe Silverwing 

1333
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,680
was a dragon that didn't want to
do her duty. 

1334
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,880
I was like, I don't want to. 
I can. 

1335
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,360
I just won't. 
I'm just not gonna. 

1336
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:18,080
Yeah, You never know what these 
Dragons they're they're willful 

1337
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,200
beasts, right? 
Isn't that what what one of the 

1338
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,360
the beings in the House of the 
Undying said to Daenerys before 

1339
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,280
they revealed themselves with 
like, oh, willful beast, blah, 

1340
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,520
blah blah blah, blah. 
We'll teach you all the secrets 

1341
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,320
of dragon speech, won't we? 
Yeah. 

1342
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,880
You liar, Gerald Garcia says. 
The thing about Silverwing is 

1343
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,560
that if the Long Night ended 
with a truce, the wall may be a 

1344
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,640
border where fire magic can't 
pass one way and ice magic can't

1345
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,600
pass the other. 
Interesting. 

1346
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,680
Well, I will say that Melisandre
has crossed apparently both 

1347
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,800
ways. 
She was able because now she's 

1348
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,920
not a white. 
I don't think there is a theory 

1349
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:55,720
she's a fire white or something 
like that. 

1350
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,120
I don't think she is. 
I think she's just had an 

1351
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:02,760
extended life. 
Her she's she's not immortal but

1352
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:07,560
she is semi immortal given she 
has a very extended life which 

1353
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,240
is not the same thing as 
resurrection. 

1354
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:12,640
I think this like it extends 
your life. 

1355
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,120
But one is being the mechanism 
of bringing someone back from 

1356
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,399
death is very different than 
extending life in my opinion. 

1357
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:21,920
So but yeah, there are a lot of 
good theories out there about 

1358
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,319
the wall. 
Maybe keeps out certain things 

1359
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:27,200
like fire magic or or ice magic 
or maybe drawing those 

1360
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,040
distinctions is a really 
interesting conversation. 

1361
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,960
So yeah, maybe maybe Silver Wing
could pass the other way, but 

1362
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,560
not this way. 
And maybe silver Wing could fly 

1363
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,560
S over the wall but didn't pass 
it going north. 

1364
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,359
That's an interesting 
possibility and we might get 

1365
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:43,680
more. 
Well, we will. 

1366
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,160
We'll get more clues in the 
books so as to what can and 

1367
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,399
can't pass the wall. 
I think, and we have. 

1368
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:51,479
I have at least one more big 
question on that coming up later

1369
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,200
in the episode. 
Let's talk about some of the 

1370
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,720
existing theories to about who 
cold hands is. 

1371
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,080
Some of these we can discuss 
some of them. 

1372
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,160
We can perhaps even eliminate 
Benjen. 

1373
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,960
Benjen would be a solid 
candidate given the long mystery

1374
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,319
of his disappearance and the 
fact that he took the cold hands

1375
01:09:07,319 --> 01:09:10,920
role in the TV show. 
But George R Martin's editor 

1376
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,560
straight up asked in the margin 
of A Dance with Dragons while 

1377
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,359
she was editing the book she's 
she wrote Is this Benjen? 

1378
01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:20,800
And he wrote no. 
Yeah, I have that on screen for 

1379
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,960
y'all very very clearly is this 
Benjen? 

1380
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:29,439
I think it's benjen dot dot dot 
with a little happy :) and 

1381
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,560
George writes in red it was 
circled at no. 

1382
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:35,640
Like a teacher correcting the 
student. 

1383
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,279
No, F no, not F no. 
It's a reasonable guess. 

1384
01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:41,000
It was a reasonable guess, 
especially at the time. 

1385
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,880
And I love that, by the way. 
I love that the editor is like 

1386
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,080
really engrossed in the story, 
like thinking about who this 

1387
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,399
person is. 
It's not just like looking for 

1388
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,000
mistakes, like really deep in 
it, which is you should do that 

1389
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,399
as an editor. 
I mean, you're to edit a book, 

1390
01:09:53,399 --> 01:09:55,240
you really need to know what it 
is you're you're editing. 

1391
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,000
You got to know it well so that 
we a lot of you have seen this 

1392
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,320
picture before, heard of it. 
But that's the point. 

1393
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,400
Some of you have only ever heard
this and haven't seen it. 

1394
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,560
So we wanted to put it on 
screen. 

1395
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,640
So you know, it's not a rumor. 
So we really don't need to 

1396
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,000
discuss this possibility any 
further. 

1397
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,040
I see no reason to discuss the 
possibility of Benjin. 

1398
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:15,520
I mean, we can talk about Benjin
another time because he's he's 

1399
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,120
still a mystery, I want to say. 
Real quick, what we've said 

1400
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,680
before, which is why would 
George lie to his editor? 

1401
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,840
He wouldn't. 
OK, OK, He just wouldn't lie to 

1402
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,120
his editor, of all people. 
I mean, maybe it's an elaborate 

1403
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,000
way to fool the entire fan and 
like, editor's like, I'm going 

1404
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,240
to write this, You'll write no 
fool everywhere. 

1405
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:33,800
I don't. 
Think that's possible. 

1406
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:38,240
I think 0% possible. 
Really, I think the it's only. 

1407
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,400
Theoretically possible. 
The only thing that's. 

1408
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,160
Possible that would make it 
possible to be Benjen is that 

1409
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:46,120
George just changed his mind. 
I don't really think that's 

1410
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:49,560
going to happen in this 
particular case, but certainly 

1411
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,400
possible always for an author to
change their mind. 

1412
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,920
That's their prerogative. 
Agreed. 

1413
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:56,960
Yeah, it is. 
Absolutely. 

1414
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:58,600
Yeah. 
Mind changing is always 

1415
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,480
possible, but yeah, it does seem
unlikely. 

1416
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,680
OK, so another possible is 
Weymar Royce. 

1417
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,480
He's a Ranger. 
His body wouldn't have 

1418
01:11:05,480 --> 01:11:07,360
deteriorated because he was 
killed fairly recently and he 

1419
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,520
was killed by them like they 
killed him long ago, which that 

1420
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,160
would have been two years ago or
so. 

1421
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:16,160
So that qualifies as long ago I 
think from Bran's perspective. 

1422
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,560
But here's a line from the 
prologue. 

1423
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,520
Basically the last one of the 
last lines of the prologue. 

1424
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:26,240
The right eye was open, the 
pupil burned blue, it saw cold 

1425
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,120
as it's not blue eyes, Weymar 
Royce has blue eyes there. 

1426
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:33,320
Now one of our theories is that 
that Bloodraven de whited or 

1427
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:37,240
took control over on this body, 
which might change the eye 

1428
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,200
colour, cause the eye colour 
seems to indicate who's in 

1429
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,600
control. 
So if someone else sees control 

1430
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,360
over this body then there you 
go. 

1431
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,520
That that could explain the lack
of blue eyes. 

1432
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,320
I'm open to that possibility. 
But there's another problem. 

1433
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:52,680
The pupil burned blue it saw one
of Weymar Royce's eyes was 

1434
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,480
destroyed by the shattering 
blade and there's no mention of 

1435
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:59,160
cold hands having a ruined eye. 
That's a pretty big problem. 

1436
01:11:59,480 --> 01:12:02,680
It's also a problem that Weymar 
had fancy clothing. 

1437
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:07,080
He had Moleskin gloves wrapped 
around his throat. 

1438
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,240
Will did. 
That's the last thing in the 

1439
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,000
prologue. 
Moleskin gloves wrapping around 

1440
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,440
his throat, not bare hands with 
his cold hands as a white bother

1441
01:12:15,440 --> 01:12:18,760
to take his gloves off. 
I mean, maybe they fell off, but

1442
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:20,800
I mean, yeah, I don't know. 
It just doesn't. 

1443
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,160
There's a lot of things here 
that don't really work. 

1444
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,520
And how would Waymar have 
control over Ravens and an elk? 

1445
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,320
Now maybe that's bloodraven, but
honestly, this last bit is a 

1446
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,480
problem for almost any candidate
who is both a Ranger and a skin 

1447
01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:37,320
changer. 
Well, well, Jon Snow, but well 

1448
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:38,760
here. 
That's that's what I just want 

1449
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:40,680
to say. 
I just think that the answer 

1450
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,960
there has to be that Bloodraven 
does the controlling and we can 

1451
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,960
just not have that be the fatal 
flaw in all of these issues. 

1452
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,800
I think that I think that really
points to the fact that 

1453
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:53,760
Bloodraven is controlling this, 
yes. 

1454
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,160
I agree it's one of the biggest 
clues that this is Bloodraven 

1455
01:12:56,160 --> 01:13:01,680
and not some other being. 
Because like, does do your war 

1456
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,280
powers stay with you when you 
die and come back? 

1457
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,400
Big question for John, by the 
way, because yeah, like, do you 

1458
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:10,000
does your blood still work the 
same? 

1459
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,640
I mean, like you, it's tied to 
your blood, they say, and your 

1460
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:16,560
blood is all like it's congealed
and gets in your hands. 

1461
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,720
And like your blood is just 
different when you're dead. 

1462
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,280
So I don't know, maybe, maybe 
that's just getting too into the

1463
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,360
weeds with it. 
But either way, cold hands can 

1464
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,400
teach us a thing or two or three
or five about John, and that's 

1465
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,160
really interesting. 
I think that's perhaps one of 

1466
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:31,360
the most interesting things 
about cold hands is what he 

1467
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:35,080
tells us, not who he is. 
It's possible the war abilities 

1468
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,800
of cold hands came after his 
raising, but that also kind of 

1469
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,360
seems far fetched, right? 
Like he just was imbued with 

1470
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,280
these powers after death. 
That seems kind of unlikely, 

1471
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:46,240
like he's some sort of. 
I think that at that point that 

1472
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,200
you do that, what's the 
difference between just blood 

1473
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,480
Raven doing it? 
What's the point in making that 

1474
01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:52,320
be? 
The the, the? 

1475
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:56,000
IT just seems more complex it? 
Seems like, yeah, it does. 

1476
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,960
Just blood Raven. 
Just a better answer than than 

1477
01:13:57,960 --> 01:13:59,680
any of these things. 
Yeah, then he's weird, like 

1478
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:01,040
within his. 
Powers. 

1479
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,640
It's within his interests. 
Like self-serve. 

1480
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,880
Like, yeah, it's it's totally 
reasonable for him to do this. 

1481
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,320
So one theory that's been out 
there for a while is Knights 

1482
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,600
King. 
Now he was a Ranger, though long

1483
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,760
ago is extremely extreme. 
Here we're talking like 8 to 

1484
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,160
10,000 years ago. 
That really, really stretches 

1485
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:24,680
the desiccation of a body. 
The clothing would have to be 

1486
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:25,920
reset. 
He's on his one. 

1487
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:31,040
Thousandth clothing item. 
And George R Martin is flat out 

1488
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,520
said Night King was a mythical 
figure. 

1489
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,960
It's a bit much to have a 
character designated as a 

1490
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,800
mythical figure, yet running 
around doing errands for 

1491
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:40,840
Bloodraven 8 to 10,000 years 
later. 

1492
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,960
I mean, Aaron does. 
Maybe kind of not a fair way to 

1493
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,320
put it, but it's still like why 
is he in his subordinate role? 

1494
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:51,480
You know, like for all this so 
many years later like man. 

1495
01:14:51,480 --> 01:14:54,960
But he at least the power part 
works like he was associated 

1496
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:57,400
with having magical abilities. 
So the skin changer part 

1497
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,680
actually does fit this one, at 
least Knights. 

1498
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,280
Errand Boy Knights, yeah. 
No longer the Knights king. 

1499
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:05,600
He's the Knights Squire now. 
The Knights Paige. 

1500
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:07,640
Yeah, really. 
He's like talk about a Squire 

1501
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:09,040
later. 
Some Squires never get promoted 

1502
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:10,840
to knighthood. 
Yeah, this guy's been there 8000

1503
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:14,520
years. 
Really, really long in that job.

1504
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,120
One of the Raven's Teeth. 
This has been one of my favorite

1505
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,920
conclusions for quite a long 
time. 

1506
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,240
We wrote an episode for In Deep 
Geek and this was basically my 

1507
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,400
conclusion there that as far as 
who Cold Hands was as a living 

1508
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:28,160
being, this is my favorite 
guest. 

1509
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,040
The Raven's Teeth were Blood 
Raven's personal guard. 

1510
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,120
They were Archers and and had 
other roles as well. 

1511
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:39,720
They took the field with him at 
the Red Grass Field, and they, 

1512
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:41,640
many of them went to the wall 
with him. 

1513
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,040
When he was sent to take the 
black. 

1514
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:46,920
Maybe, maybe about 50 of them. 
That was our guest, about 50, 

1515
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,480
roughly. 
And those would have helped him 

1516
01:15:49,480 --> 01:15:52,520
get elected Lord Commander. 
So you know, 'cause it's a 

1517
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,320
voting thing, right? 
And not that his own, just who 

1518
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:58,320
he was, helped him become Lord 
Commander. 

1519
01:15:58,320 --> 01:15:59,960
This guy has a ton of 
experience. 

1520
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,000
The idea of like going up to the
wall with like your own voting 

1521
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,560
bloc. 
Yeah, right. 

1522
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:07,920
The nice watch is now a lot of 
people, 50s a lot, right? 

1523
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,000
I know. 
It's really. 

1524
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,520
Actually quite funny. 
It's a picture like some guy 

1525
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:16,280
who's like, I'm a lock next year
I'm the Lord Commander and like 

1526
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:18,880
Blood Raven arrives with 50 men 
and they're like. 

1527
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:20,520
OK, well, that's all right. 
I'm. 

1528
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:21,640
I'm not. 
I'm going to lose. 

1529
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,000
Yeah, like, damn it, this guy's 
been handed the king, like, what

1530
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,200
the hell? 
To two different kings, 13 years

1531
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,640
each. 
And he's already got a voting 

1532
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:32,000
bloc. 
Like, this is not fair. 

1533
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:35,240
Now, he that also qualifies as 
long ago. 

1534
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:38,600
That's like 50 years ago, right?
It's a pretty, pretty good 

1535
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:40,960
length of time. 
Now, it's not the easiest thing 

1536
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,280
to believe that one of blood 
Raven's personal guard was a 

1537
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:46,320
warg, but it, you know, it's 
it's feasible. 

1538
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:50,680
You know, he could, if anyone's 
out there detecting people with 

1539
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,240
war powers, it could be him. 
You know, we never hear of such 

1540
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,080
a thing, but there's a lot of 
things Blood Raven would have 

1541
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,120
done that we wouldn't have heard
about and. 

1542
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:01,040
Not essential that they were a 
skin changer of any sort, yeah. 

1543
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:04,560
It wouldn't have, yeah, exactly.
So maybe just one or the two of 

1544
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,960
them. 
Like he's, he's Blackwood. 

1545
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,800
So, you know, maybe there's. 
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, I mean 

1546
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:13,720
I I think Nourish game even says
it in the chat right here. 

1547
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,560
If it isn't Blood Raven and Cold
Hands is a skin changer. 

1548
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,120
It isn't impossible. 
Much of this sort of magic lives

1549
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:22,240
in the north and the north is I 
think the main nights watch 

1550
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:24,360
recruiting ground for non 
convicts. 

1551
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,520
So that too, Beyond Blood Raven,
maybe having some people from 

1552
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,600
the Riverlands that could have 
that type of background as well.

1553
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:37,440
Certainly very, very possible. 
Skin changers aren't so few and 

1554
01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:40,000
far between that there's once in
it. 

1555
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,480
One in a generation. 
There's definitely more than one

1556
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:44,640
in a generation, and they could.
Sense each other and blood. 

1557
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,080
Raven was one. 
So if he knew of this person 

1558
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:51,120
while Lord Commander, there's a 
lot of ways as Lord Commander of

1559
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:52,960
the Night's Watch, he could have
encountered to some other skin 

1560
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:54,760
changer someone. 
It might have been a Ranger, 

1561
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,440
Well, it would have been a 
Ranger and established a 

1562
01:17:57,440 --> 01:17:59,920
relationship with this person or
knew this person was like, ah, 

1563
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:02,600
that's the guy I need to 
resurrect because he's the one 

1564
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,080
that had these powers. 
He knew about this guy, so he's 

1565
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,240
the one. 
So he was uniquely qualified to 

1566
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:08,840
to be resurrected for this 
purpose. 

1567
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,720
Guilty. 
Undertaker says if George wanted

1568
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:13,600
to make Cold Hands one of the 
raven's teeth, he could have 

1569
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:16,600
made him an Archer. 
But maybe he can't pull a 

1570
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:19,600
bowstring. 
The big question is why doesn't 

1571
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:22,920
Cold hands use his archery? 
If he was a Raven's Tooth and 

1572
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:27,040
that his question is maybe he 
can't physically, he maybe. 

1573
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,640
Can't. 
Yeah, that's possible, and maybe

1574
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:32,240
it's just not that effective. 
Like, I feel like what makes 

1575
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,400
bows effective against whites is
if they have dragon glass or 

1576
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,360
fire, and he can't. 
He probably shouldn't be 

1577
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:42,800
handling dragon glass either, so
that could be it. 

1578
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:44,720
But I like the idea that maybe 
he just isn't physically capable

1579
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,000
because his arms don't work 
right anymore, but he definitely

1580
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,520
can swing a sword in his hands. 
I was picturing, yeah. 

1581
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,840
Yeah. 
So, yeah, it's it's possible. 

1582
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:57,560
So again we return to all this 
is much easier to explain if 

1583
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,400
it's just blood Raven using his 
powers if if if cold hands is a 

1584
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,960
vessel, but what does that mean 
you know he's a vessel. 

1585
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:05,640
We'll come back to that briefly.
But either way I think like you 

1586
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,800
said, seems to be we agree on 
that he's in a tree. 

1587
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:12,080
He can control animals, but he 
needs a way to speak and do 

1588
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:14,800
human things. 
He needs a a vessel that's 

1589
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,480
walking around out there in the 
world that can give, you know 

1590
01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:21,680
use English well common a 
language that they can 

1591
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,280
understand rather than talking 
through birds or in dreams. 

1592
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,880
He needs a a be a person. 
You know, someone with a tongue 

1593
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,480
you know. 
So it doesn't even matter 

1594
01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:33,800
necessarily who the Ranger is. 
Though as we've said, being 

1595
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:37,560
dressed as a Ranger or actually 
being in the body of a Ranger is

1596
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,680
a is a benefit because people 
like Sam will go oh a friend and

1597
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,840
and Bran and Jojen Amir as well 
will recognize nights watch 

1598
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:50,280
generally as a good thing. 
So on the other hand, being a a 

1599
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:54,520
Ranger beyond the wall raises 
the danger of free folk. 

1600
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:59,520
But this is a good time to not 
have to worry about free folk 

1601
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,720
because they've all been fleeing
S beyond the Wall. 

1602
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,880
So that that probably is solved 
by that issue. 

1603
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,800
And it's also solved by the fact
that beyond the wall is vast and

1604
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:12,280
they have all these Raven scouts
keeping an eye as to who's 

1605
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:13,280
around them. 
Nina says. 

1606
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:15,720
Yeah, cold hands. 
Probably a white taken over and 

1607
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:19,120
controlled by Blood Raven. 
If whites are dead bodies raised

1608
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:22,200
back to life and then directed 
by the others, I think 

1609
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,480
Bloodraven has somehow 
effectively taken over that 

1610
01:20:25,480 --> 01:20:29,360
control from the others with 
respect to this one individual 

1611
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:30,960
being. 
And again, This is why I think 

1612
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:33,600
maybe it was even one of the 
dead ones right outside The 

1613
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,920
Cave. 
Remember, OK, there's some 

1614
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:37,560
confusion. 
Again, I have to refer to the TV

1615
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,520
show, not because it's relevant 
here, but because it might have 

1616
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:41,320
confused some people. 
In the show. 

1617
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,440
It's implied that the Night King
didn't know where that cave was,

1618
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:49,280
and then once it was revealed 
through Bran's dreaming, they 

1619
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,240
found him and then all hell 
broke loose. 

1620
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,280
They clearly know where that 
cave is in the book, 'cause they

1621
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,360
there's a bajillion dead animals
just sitting there right outside

1622
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:58,560
it hoping to get, trying to get 
in. 

1623
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,840
And they can't. 
So like, they know where it is, 

1624
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:03,840
they just can't get in either. 
So keep that in mind. 

1625
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:04,760
Very different. 
They know. 

1626
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:06,800
They know where this cave is, 
and that's also why they're 

1627
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,640
waiting to right outside. 
And they're like, well, we can't

1628
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:11,960
get in, but we can lay a trap 
for anyone else who's trying to 

1629
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:13,480
get in. 
And that's that's exactly what 

1630
01:21:13,480 --> 01:21:15,160
happened. 
And that's cold hands sense 

1631
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:17,200
them. 
So in a sense, Nina says, and I 

1632
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:22,160
tend to agree it narratively 
isn't important who cold hands 

1633
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:25,400
is. 
It says a lot about ethics and 

1634
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,800
humanity, but the individual 
identity of this being isn't 

1635
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:32,440
necessarily important. 
It's certainly not going to be 

1636
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:35,320
some major reveal like some big 
twist like, oh, it was this 

1637
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,520
person all along. 
We may never find out who it 

1638
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:40,480
was. 
That's entirely possible, and 

1639
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:43,240
that's why that further my 
furthers. 

1640
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:47,080
My opinion that the existence of
Cold Hands, what he can do, and 

1641
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,560
what Blood Blood Raven is doing 
through him matters far more. 

1642
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:53,680
What powers are being used? 
What it suggests about what 

1643
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:57,200
powers are in play in general? 
The abilities of Green Seers, 

1644
01:21:57,200 --> 01:21:59,640
the purpose of Blood Raven, what
he's willing to do. 

1645
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:04,760
This is the point of Cold Hands.
Because he's so nondescript, he 

1646
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:07,280
doesn't have features that tell 
us who he was. 

1647
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:10,440
He's he's almost intentionally 
blank. 

1648
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:16,880
Eye color, height, physicality. 
These things are ordinary on 

1649
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:18,280
him. 
None of them stand out. 

1650
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:22,160
He's of ordinary height, of 
ordinary bearing, of ordinary 

1651
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:25,160
anything, you name it. 
Nothing stands out about him 

1652
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:28,120
except him being dead. 
His hands, the things that are 

1653
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:32,840
corpse, like all the features of
him that seem to matter are the 

1654
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:34,600
features that any corpse would 
have. 

1655
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:38,880
Like one that really gets me, 
that that sells this point to me

1656
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:43,280
is when they ask him about his 
hands and and the line is he 

1657
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,920
studied his hands as if seeing 
them for the first time. 

1658
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:47,880
That's kind of the reaction you 
would have. 

1659
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,960
If it's not your body, if 
you're, if it's a vessel, if 

1660
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:55,120
Bloodraven is guiding these 
actions or just like, yeah, you 

1661
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,280
know what? 
Yeah, my hands are like this, 

1662
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:00,720
'cause I'm dead, you know, like,
Oh yeah, look at that. 

1663
01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:02,760
How about that? 
Yeah, look at that. 

1664
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:09,160
The closest he comes to any sort
of self identification is when 

1665
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:11,320
he answers the accusation of 
being a monster. 

1666
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,240
He's like, yeah, I'm a monster, 
but I'm your monster. 

1667
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:15,120
Yes, I'm. 
I'm intimidating. 

1668
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,640
I'm frightening, but not. 
But I am no danger to you. 

1669
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,880
I'm yours to use if you safe. 
I'm. 

1670
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:23,200
I'm on your side. 
You know, it's kind of. 

1671
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:25,400
Interesting, when you think 
about it in those words. 

1672
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:27,960
Like I'm your monster. 
If you think about Bran as being

1673
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,480
the one who takes over for 
Bloodraven, you know if if if 

1674
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,800
Cold Hands is Blood Ravens 
monster fully in control of him.

1675
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,880
He's basically saying like you, 
this is your role to feel like 

1676
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:42,240
you're going to take control of 
beings like me. 

1677
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:44,120
Oh. 
Yeah, you're going to be the 

1678
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:45,720
yes. 
That's a good point. 

1679
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,880
Like I'm your subordinate. 
Yes, you're we're all monsters 

1680
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:50,080
here, yeah. 
I'm your. 

1681
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,680
I'm. 
I'm the subordinate to the last 

1682
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:53,640
greens here. 
Always. 

1683
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:54,960
Which will be you. 
Which will be you. 

1684
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:55,600
Yeah. 
Wow. 

1685
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:58,280
That's a good point, yeah. 
And that's part of why he 

1686
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,680
There's no reason to answer the 
question of who are you? 

1687
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:02,320
It's like, well, it doesn't 
matter who I am. 

1688
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:06,600
Who I am is irrelevant, you 
know, it's it's what I am, what 

1689
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:11,880
you can do with me, what I 
suggest is possible for you. 

1690
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:14,800
That's what matters. 
And he's notable because he's 

1691
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,800
dead and can talk like a living 
being and is almost exactly like

1692
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,320
a white besides his eyes. 
That is just like mind blowing. 

1693
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:22,600
All these what? 
What does this say? 

1694
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:23,800
What is this? 
What's the potential? 

1695
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,320
It tells us a lot about the 
other undead. 

1696
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:28,400
Maybe less about Lady 
Stoneheart, maybe less about 

1697
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:30,840
Barrack, Barrack, Donderry, but 
maybe more because that might be

1698
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:32,680
the means with John is 
resurrected. 

1699
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:36,360
Cold Hands fits very well with 
Blood Raven's established use of

1700
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:40,280
supernatural agents. 
Dunk thinks of all the rumors 

1701
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,280
that Bloodraven quote could 
change his face, put on the 

1702
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,640
likeness of A1 Eyed dog, even 
turn into a mist command, gaunt 

1703
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:51,000
Gray wolves to hunt down his 
foes, and quote carrying crows 

1704
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,120
to spy for him and whisper 
secrets in his ear. 

1705
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:57,040
This stuff was known about him 
when he was handed the king, 

1706
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,960
well before he was a green seer.
And of course, that's a big 

1707
01:24:59,960 --> 01:25:01,760
question. 
Like, when did he start to use 

1708
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,920
his green Seer powers? 
Because this other stuff, Yeah, 

1709
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:08,120
like, skin changing isn't the 
same. 

1710
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:12,200
It's it falls under the auspices
of Green seer abilities, but 

1711
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,840
it's it's on the lower level, 
right, 'cause we have guys who 

1712
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:17,720
can just do that. 
We have skin changers, but we 

1713
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,280
also Green seers that can skin 
change and do all these other 

1714
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:22,040
things. 
And yeah, it's an open mystery 

1715
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:25,640
as to how Blood Raven's powers 
developed and when he had them. 

1716
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:27,240
And not all those rumors might 
even be true. 

1717
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:29,480
Like, these are things that are 
said about Blood Raven, but that

1718
01:25:29,480 --> 01:25:30,520
doesn't mean they were all 
accurate. 

1719
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,080
But he definitely had the power 
to change his face. 

1720
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:34,720
We we saw him do it like Maynard
Plum. 

1721
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:37,360
Hello. 
You know, that's that's pretty 

1722
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,600
proven, you know. 
And he was infamous for his spy 

1723
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:42,440
network. 
So it stands to reason that one 

1724
01:25:42,440 --> 01:25:44,920
of the reasons he was so 
effective as a spy was because 

1725
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:47,360
he was using skin changing 
powers which would whoa, that's 

1726
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:50,520
a leg up, a huge leg up. 
I mean we just went through the 

1727
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,800
whole 1st, 2/3 of the episode 
constantly pointing out that 

1728
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:57,360
this could have been picked up 
on by blood Raven through a 

1729
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,520
Raven, you could have heard it 
through Mormons Raven or through

1730
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:01,400
any bird over here in Chet, this
and that. 

1731
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,480
Like that is super high level 
spy stuff. 

1732
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:08,320
Like you cannot control for that
birds listening on to you, 

1733
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:11,560
difficult to keep that away. 
So it would explain so much the 

1734
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,280
skin changing, the lack of self 
recognition, the unimportance of

1735
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,000
his identity speaking in a 
tongue. 

1736
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:18,640
No one recognize that too. 
Like, what was that all about? 

1737
01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:20,560
Well, if it's Bloodraven 
speaking through him, it makes a

1738
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,240
little more sense. 
So was he again? 

1739
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:25,880
Was he raised by Bloodraven or 
raised by the others and then 

1740
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:27,480
taken over? 
I kind of favored the latter, 

1741
01:26:27,480 --> 01:26:30,080
'cause I don't know 'cause if if
if, if Green Sears can actually 

1742
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,760
raise the dead, yeah, that just 
opens up so many strange 

1743
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:35,360
possibilities. 
Can Bran raise the dead? 

1744
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:38,200
If. 
If he can, then it's it explains

1745
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:40,480
a lot about the connection 
between the children and the 

1746
01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:42,160
others. 
It it, it makes their powers 

1747
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:47,240
even closer in potential and but
how it works then we may have 

1748
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:50,680
thought like, yeah. 
Yeah, I think if if it's at the 

1749
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:54,680
others raised cold hands and it 
was taken over, I lean a little 

1750
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:57,600
more towards Waymar as the 
answer there. 

1751
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:02,080
If it was taken over just cause 
like we it it, it goes full 

1752
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:05,080
circle so well there that we see
it happen and then it's like 

1753
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:07,640
taken away, even with the other 
ruined eye thing. 

1754
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:09,920
And that's fine. 
If it was the day he raised him 

1755
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:13,520
himself, I leaned towards it 
being the one of his own 

1756
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:15,320
Rangers, one of the Night 
Raven's Teeth. 

1757
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,400
Like not Waymar. 
I guess it would have. 

1758
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,920
Been kind of neat to have Waymar
because and to have the eye 

1759
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:23,000
missing because then it would be
even more like blood Raven being

1760
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:24,520
one eye, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, it. 

1761
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:26,200
Would really. 
That might be two on the nose 

1762
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:26,800
there. 
They might give it. 

1763
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,000
They might have given it away. 
Not that it isn't that hard to 

1764
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:31,400
figure out, or not that it isn't
suggested, but they have. 

1765
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:33,920
Nina points out as well that 
there's a lot of mirroring here 

1766
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,040
between Cold Hands and 
Bloodraven, and it kind of works

1767
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:38,200
as an agent of him because of 
how much they have in common. 

1768
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:41,640
They're both Rangers identified 
by the tattered blacks, which is

1769
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:44,160
how they partly identify 
Brendan. 

1770
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,240
When he's in his tree, he still 
has some black cloaks that are 

1771
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:49,680
faded. 
They both seemingly died quote 

1772
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:51,480
long ago, but they're still 
alive now. 

1773
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:53,480
Blood Raven didn't actually die,
he's been kept alive 

1774
01:27:53,480 --> 01:27:57,400
unnaturally, but that's still a 
parallel supernatural powers. 

1775
01:27:57,400 --> 01:27:58,720
We're keeping them alive either 
way. 

1776
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:02,640
And it's sort of a amusing twist
that Blood Raven himself might 

1777
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:06,080
appreciate that he's using the 
living corpse to be his agent. 

1778
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,520
When Dunk described him looking 
like a living corpse. 

1779
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:12,800
When Blood Ravens are like his 
peace pale and you know he looks

1780
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,120
kind of like the blood has been 
leached out of him. 

1781
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:18,720
So folks, consider this next 
quote in support of that idea. 

1782
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:23,120
This perhaps illustrates or 
symbolizes them all, being one 

1783
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:26,120
being quote. 
Cold hands stood beside the 

1784
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:30,840
door, a Raven on his arm, both 
staring at the fire. 

1785
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:36,520
Reflections from the flames 
glittered off 4 black eyes. 

1786
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,520
He does not eat, Bran 
remembered. 

1787
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:43,800
And he fears the flames. 
Not to mention how well it fits 

1788
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:45,520
the old thousand eyes in one 
thing. 

1789
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:49,200
Well, there's four of his eyes 
right there, I suppose, and it 

1790
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,200
is four eyes, right? 
It's explicit that he has two 

1791
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:56,160
eyes here because the 2 Raven 
eyes, 2 cold hands eyes. 

1792
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,760
But this could be more of a 
reflection of who he serves. 

1793
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:03,760
The the the flames glittering 
off their eyes is an indication 

1794
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:05,480
that he's directly controlled 
like a ward. 

1795
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:09,000
Because Gilly and Sam say cold 
hands says he was sent. 

1796
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:12,680
There's some problem with Blood 
Raven being in direct control of

1797
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:15,880
him, like like a skin changer. 
Like he's just like when Bran 

1798
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:17,760
goes into Summer. 
He's controlling what Summer 

1799
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,320
does. 
I don't quite think that's 

1800
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:23,200
what's happening here because of
the way he talks. 

1801
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:27,200
When Gillian Sam say or 
referring to him, they say cold 

1802
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:31,560
hands says he was sent. 
Not that I'm here for you, I was

1803
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,400
sent for you. 
Like there's two beings here. 

1804
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:38,000
There's the the sender and the 
person arriving to facilitate 

1805
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:42,080
that, he says. 
The one I was sent to find, he 

1806
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:45,160
doesn't say. 
The one I am looking for, he's 

1807
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:47,600
he. 
There's a distinct 2 agents 

1808
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:50,040
here. 
There's the sender and the 

1809
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:53,480
sendee. 
Not it's not one being, it's not

1810
01:29:53,480 --> 01:29:54,760
phrased that way. 
Anyway. 

1811
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:58,360
So I, I, and I prefer this 
'cause I think the story is 

1812
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:00,440
better, a little more tragic, a 
little deeper. 

1813
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:04,240
If Cold Hands is still a person 
underneath all that, if he still

1814
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,120
has some sort of agency, because
it's brings us back to the 

1815
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:12,080
ethical questions of, yeah, 
you're using someone else, 

1816
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,200
you're this is his body. 
This is like Bran going inside 

1817
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:19,680
Hodor, which we all don't think 
is good, except maybe when it's 

1818
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:24,520
a life or death situation. 
So you might support Bran going 

1819
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,600
into Hodor to shut him up when 
he's yelling and alerting the 

1820
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:29,760
wildlings nearby, then you know,
which would have gotten him 

1821
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,480
killed. 
But when he's just doing it to 

1822
01:30:32,480 --> 01:30:35,640
climb down in the caverns and 
hang out with JoJo Namira, 

1823
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:39,840
that's that's bad, right? 
So I don't think Bloodraven's 

1824
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:40,840
evil. 
I'm not one of those people. 

1825
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:42,480
I know there's some people up 
there that have this theory that

1826
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:43,280
he's evil. 
I'm open to it. 

1827
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:44,720
But I don't think so personally.
Don't think so. 

1828
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:46,880
So I think Bloodraven cares 
about saving the world. 

1829
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:49,760
I don't think he would put this 
much effort into bringing Bran 

1830
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,480
to The Cave if he didn't. 
Nina agrees. 

1831
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:53,600
We're on the same page with 
that. 

1832
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:57,040
But is it OK to take over a 
reanimated person? 

1833
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:01,000
And if there's if that person 
can feel it and is suffering 

1834
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:04,960
because of it, yeah, I. 
Would say you think what Raven 

1835
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:06,960
isn't evil? 
Like he's working towards the 

1836
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:10,320
end of the world. 
But you probably also don't 

1837
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:15,840
necessarily agree that the means
Yeah, they don't. 

1838
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:18,400
I would quibble with he does. 
Evil things I would. 

1839
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:19,720
Quibble with some of his means, 
yeah. 

1840
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:23,240
Like, I totally disagree with 
his Amy's Blackfyre thing. 

1841
01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:24,080
Yeah, yeah. 
Exactly. 

1842
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:27,160
That's my point is that you 
might think that he ultimately 

1843
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:30,240
is doing the thing that's best 
for the realm, but it's not the 

1844
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:35,200
best for the individual people 
necessarily or is evil in action

1845
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:36,880
his. 
Goals are honourable, His 

1846
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,480
methods not so much, yeah and 
but. 

1847
01:31:39,480 --> 01:31:43,040
But I also question myself as to
what what would I do? 

1848
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:46,400
You know, like what is noble in 
assistant scenario like this. 

1849
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:48,320
That's why I went so much effort
to point out like, well, these 

1850
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:51,120
aren't humans that we're 
fighting against. 

1851
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:54,280
It's others. 
It's like beings that want to 

1852
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,040
kill everyone and that just 
changes the whole ethical 

1853
01:31:57,040 --> 01:31:58,760
consideration. 
Yeah, it's really interesting. 

1854
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:00,280
I don't. 
Know, I don't think I would be 

1855
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:03,200
any better than Bloodraven if I 
actually I would. 

1856
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:03,880
Either, yeah. 
If. 

1857
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:08,080
I actually thought that what I 
was doing was saving humanity. 

1858
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:09,200
Yeah. 
I don't know. 

1859
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:10,240
I don't. 
Yeah, Yeah, it's really. 

1860
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:11,280
Hard. 
The bar is really high. 

1861
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:14,480
Like you can, yeah. 
If it's if the if the outcome is

1862
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:17,800
saving humanity, I think yeah, 
you can do a lot you can. 

1863
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:20,040
Justify a lot of words. 
I I. 

1864
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:24,680
Think right, rightfully so and 
which yeah, anyways, yeah, but 

1865
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:29,800
rarely, rarely is the option. 
Saving humanity or not. 

1866
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,800
Like that's not the the, the bar
is not normally that high like. 

1867
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:34,600
Yeah, for example. 
Let's use the Hodor example 

1868
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,280
again. 
Brands, not evil, but taking 

1869
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:39,560
over Hodor is bad. 
Like, that's not a good thing. 

1870
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:40,880
That's something he shouldn't do
that. 

1871
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:43,480
I mean, unless it's a survival 
thing, like, I think it's Okay 

1872
01:32:43,480 --> 01:32:45,520
in survival situation. 
It was Okay when he did it 

1873
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:48,320
outside The Cave, when Hodor was
quivering, and then when Bran 

1874
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:51,160
took him over, he was a roaring 
giant slashing right and left. 

1875
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:53,160
And it was pretty effective, I 
think you. 

1876
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:56,520
Could say that it's OK, it was 
the right decision and all of 

1877
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:58,240
these things. 
And you could still say that 

1878
01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:02,360
it's like, you know, morally 
questionable and caused like you

1879
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:05,640
know more issues internally and 
all of these other things. 

1880
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:07,640
But it still was worth it. 
It still. 

1881
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:08,680
Has to be acknowledged like they
should. 

1882
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:10,600
He should like be like sorry 
Hodor. 

1883
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:12,560
You know tell him like I had to 
do this like he never says. 

1884
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:14,320
He never like apologizes or 
anything like that. 

1885
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:16,000
Like yeah that would be that 
would be better. 

1886
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:16,800
Yeah. 
You're. 

1887
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:17,520
Right. 
You're right. 

1888
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:19,320
So yeah. 
But so we're we're, but we're 

1889
01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:21,080
supposed to question. 
This is a central theme of A 

1890
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:24,400
Song of Ice and Fire is 
enslavement, control, power, 

1891
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,720
authority, the varying, all the 
things that fall into that 

1892
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:29,560
umbrella control of other 
people. 

1893
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:34,080
And so in a fantasy setting 
we're allowed to and are able to

1894
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:36,960
explore this with a large the 
umbrella is larger because we're

1895
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:43,000
also including dead beings and 
non human beings and slavery on 

1896
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:46,280
a giant scale out in marine 
versus slavery over dead people 

1897
01:33:46,440 --> 01:33:49,280
and what is that mean what are 
the ethics of that? 

1898
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:52,560
We don't know, but we don't even
know if the Whites can feel 

1899
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:55,840
things or not. 
And that's a huge question that.

1900
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,560
Who wants to know the answer to 
Jon Snow? 

1901
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:02,280
Who of anybody has questioned 
what's going on with the Whites?

1902
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,800
Who wants to know if they have 
thoughts, feelings, memories. 

1903
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:08,000
It's Jon Snow. 
Jon Snow was asked that 

1904
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:10,520
question. 
Jon wanted to keep those bodies,

1905
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:14,080
the ones they found, you know, 
outside the wall recently. 

1906
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:16,680
So it's a huge crossover. 
This is how I've saved this part

1907
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:21,720
basically for last because this 
really all crosses over to Jon 

1908
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:23,480
far more than any over any 
character. 

1909
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:25,560
Obviously it's brand's the one 
involved directly. 

1910
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:32,160
But the parallels are to Jon. 
I mean Vermeer's story is set up

1911
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:33,440
for Jon. 
A lot of it. 

1912
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,480
Explain skin changing. 
Explain Second Life, right. 

1913
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,560
Cold hands as well, right? 
I'm dead. 

1914
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,080
Check. 
Well, not yet, but he's on his 

1915
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:43,160
way. 
Ranger. 

1916
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:44,200
Yep. 
Skin changer. 

1917
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:46,800
Affirmative. 
And if we're assuming that the 

1918
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:49,440
skin changing power passes 
through thanks to Bloodraven, 

1919
01:34:49,440 --> 01:34:51,040
then John can maybe do the same 
thing. 

1920
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:56,160
He could maybe control animals 
from afar while a dead person 

1921
01:34:56,440 --> 01:34:57,400
again. 
That's a question though. 

1922
01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:59,720
Does John still have his Skin 
changer powers as a dead person?

1923
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:01,880
And of course, as a comparison 
to Bloodraven, there's even more

1924
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:04,880
parallels. 
Half Targaryen, Lord Commander 

1925
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:07,800
of the Nights Watch, has shared 
the world of dreams with Bran 

1926
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:10,200
yadda yadda. 
Lots lots of parallels between 

1927
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:12,640
these guys and there was a 
theory that has somewhat fallen 

1928
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:14,760
out of favor. 
But certain aspects of it remain

1929
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:19,560
intriguing, which is that death 
will enable John to endure quite

1930
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:21,760
a lot more cold, as it does for 
cold hands. 

1931
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:25,920
So does that mean going deeper 
into the north? 

1932
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:28,120
Can you go farther N into the 
land of Always Winter? 

1933
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:29,320
Is that something that could 
happen? 

1934
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:31,080
Is that possible? 
Yeah. 

1935
01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:34,720
While considering this episode, 
I had a thought and I can't 

1936
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:36,840
believe I hadn't had this 
thought before and I brought it 

1937
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:40,400
up earlier kind of by accident. 
But can John cross the wall 

1938
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:43,160
after he's raised right, 
thinking cold hands. 

1939
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:46,600
If he's a resurrected being? 
If he's undead, can he cross the

1940
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:47,560
wall? 
I don't know. 

1941
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:48,360
He might not be able to. 
Now. 

1942
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,880
Some people make the argument. 
OK, well, it's a different kind 

1943
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:53,880
of magic. 
It's fire magic from Melisandre.

1944
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:56,840
It's not the same. 
Against that, I would say, OK, 

1945
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:58,960
it's a fairpoint. 
It might not apply. 

1946
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:01,760
It might be an exception to that
kind of magic. 

1947
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:06,120
On the other hand, Silverwing, 
Allison, Queen Allison's dragon,

1948
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:07,600
refused. 
Three times. 

1949
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:10,440
She tried to fly her dragon over
the wall and it wouldn't go. 

1950
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:12,400
I guess it. 
Raises the question of like 

1951
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:14,960
Barrack Dondarian right past the
wall. 

1952
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:16,720
Yeah, Well, or Lady Stoneheart 
now. 

1953
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:18,040
Yeah, yeah, Lady. 
Stoneheart now. 

1954
01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:22,600
But yeah, like I, I, I, I bring 
it up just because of the TV 

1955
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:26,160
show comparison Wright and and 
the fact that I don't really see

1956
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:29,560
Lady Stoneheart ending up there.
So like it's a moot point there.

1957
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:33,920
But I also think of how Catelyn 
was maybe in the original 

1958
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:37,280
manuscript, was going to die 
beyond the wall, right. 

1959
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:39,440
And be raised there. 
Yeah. 

1960
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:41,880
Might have been stuck there, I 
guess would be my thought, which

1961
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:44,960
would point to fire magic can't 
cross. 

1962
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:46,720
But also makes me wonder, well, 
can you? 

1963
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:49,880
Is there a notable difference 
between crossing to North and 

1964
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:51,200
South? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1965
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:53,880
And that's a great point. 
Yes, thanks to people who raised

1966
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:56,360
the issue of maybe it's it's 
it's a one way St. 

1967
01:36:57,400 --> 01:36:59,440
Maybe you can go one way but not
the other and. 

1968
01:36:59,440 --> 01:37:03,200
Maybe you feel like discomfort 
with it, like Silverwing didn't 

1969
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:06,280
want to do that because 
Silverwing felt uncomfortable. 

1970
01:37:06,440 --> 01:37:10,400
But as a, like, conscious 
person, like John, you're like, 

1971
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:13,480
oh, I feel awful doing this. 
I'm going to do it anyway, you 

1972
01:37:13,480 --> 01:37:16,320
know, Maybe it just hurts. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1973
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:18,760
You can. 
So we must return to the 

1974
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:21,800
original example of whites that 
didn't cross the wall but were 

1975
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:24,440
carried over in undead state. 
And then they rose on the other 

1976
01:37:24,440 --> 01:37:28,000
side, Jaffer and on differ 
flowers and Author. 

1977
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:31,720
And the interesting thing about 
them, which which is building 

1978
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:34,640
our case for them having 
memories and thoughts and 

1979
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:38,960
feelings still, is that those 
two didn't just rise and go on a

1980
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:41,720
rampage. 
They targeted the two highest 

1981
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,520
officers in the Night's Watch. 
One of them went for Lord 

1982
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:46,280
Commander Mormont. 
The other one went for 1st 

1983
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:49,160
Ranger Jeremy Riker. 
Well, I. 

1984
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:51,960
I also still have the question 
on how much they have their 

1985
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:55,520
memories and all or whatever and
how much is control. 

1986
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:57,400
Yeah, could the. 
Others have read their minds and

1987
01:37:57,440 --> 01:38:00,800
gleaned that information and 
used that which is entirely 

1988
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:05,080
possible, or just sort of told 
them to go gave them command to 

1989
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:07,320
kill their subordinate, their 
commanders, which they already 

1990
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:11,040
have the information for that is
you know, and clearly they were.

1991
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:13,960
Clearly the signal wasn't broken
by the wall though whatever like

1992
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:17,000
connection they had, it was it 
was still possible which is an 

1993
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:20,000
interesting thing to consider. 
Giving John's connection to go 

1994
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,040
seems to have been severed when 
when they were on opposite sides

1995
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,880
of the wall and the wall coming 
down could clear up a lot of 

1996
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:26,480
this. 
If John is stuck on one side of 

1997
01:38:26,480 --> 01:38:28,600
the wall after his resurrection 
if the wall comes down, well 

1998
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:30,680
that ends that problem. 
He can go back and forth at 

1999
01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:32,600
will. 
I I would assume once it's down 

2000
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:35,440
whatever means the wall is 
broken, which we assume will 

2001
01:38:35,440 --> 01:38:37,640
happen. 
I don't think it will be a 

2002
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:40,560
undead dragon, but for purposes 
of this discussion, doesn't 

2003
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:42,880
really matter what it is. 
It's just something. 

2004
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:47,040
Something will take down the 
wall or crack it open, and the 

2005
01:38:47,040 --> 01:38:51,400
magic, the the spells will not 
affect people walking through 

2006
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:54,000
this portion of the broken area 
or whatever. 

2007
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:58,280
Either way, that's one way 
around that problem, if it's a 

2008
01:38:58,280 --> 01:38:59,920
problem at all. 
But I think it's a really good 

2009
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:01,520
question. 
Like if John is resurrected on 

2010
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:03,760
the South side of the Wall, 
maybe he just can't pass 

2011
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:05,760
through. 
He's like, well, I'm bets, maybe

2012
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,360
that's part of his motivation to
leave the watch. 

2013
01:39:08,360 --> 01:39:10,640
He's like, I can't even go 
beyond the Wall anymore. 

2014
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:13,000
Like, I'm going to, I'm going to
go back to being a Stark. 

2015
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:16,400
And of course his attitude about
a lot of things might change 

2016
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:19,760
post resurrection. 
So his his personality, his, you

2017
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:22,360
know, like his, his mental 
state, a lot of things. 

2018
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:24,320
So he might be, like a lot of 
people said to be, more wolfish,

2019
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:28,360
maybe more fiery. 
So in the interim, if the if 

2020
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:30,760
those things don't come close 
together, if John's resurrection

2021
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:33,760
in the fall of the wall are far 
apart, well, that's interesting,

2022
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:36,520
but it could be a clue the 
things are going to come 

2023
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:38,520
relatively close together. 
Yeah, maybe. 

2024
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:41,880
Certainly reveal the narrative 
connection between John's 

2025
01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:43,960
resurrection and the falling of 
the wall. 

2026
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:48,000
A potential one has to happen 
before the other or the two are 

2027
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:51,040
tied to each other narratively 
kind of relationship. 

2028
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,120
And it does remind us of a 
tactic George uses pretty often,

2029
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:58,800
where we can see where 
individual plots are going, sort

2030
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,920
of. 
But we can't fully process or 

2031
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:04,880
predict how those plots are 
going to cross into other plots 

2032
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:08,040
because even though we know 
they're going to, but we don't 

2033
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,400
know when. 
And the timing is crucial, like 

2034
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:12,760
who's going to get to the Wall 
first, like who's going to get 

2035
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:15,560
to the N 1st, which Starks are 
going to get back to Winterfell,

2036
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,480
which claims like we talked 
about in Rob's Will episode. 

2037
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:20,840
So much depends on the order of 
events. 

2038
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:23,560
We can pick and choose what we 
think might happen, but when you

2039
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:26,200
start to think about what order 
they're happening in, everything

2040
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:28,640
changes. 
It's a big ball of impossible 

2041
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:31,720
possibilities to figure out, and
I think there's some of that 

2042
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:36,000
here where timing is employed 
effectively by George to keep us

2043
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:39,040
confused and guessing and of 
course wanting more. 

2044
01:40:39,240 --> 01:40:42,080
Cold Hands obviously doesn't 
tell us everything about Unjohn,

2045
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:44,960
but he tells us a lot. 
The ghost angle is huge. 

2046
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:47,320
Cold hands might not be a skin 
changer. 

2047
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:52,200
That might be Blood Raven from 
afar, but if he is, then that 

2048
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:54,880
tells us John will still have 
those powers when he's 

2049
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:56,840
resurrected. 
So I I suspect John's going to 

2050
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:58,240
still have his powers when he's 
resurrected. 

2051
01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:00,320
It would be kind of odd for 
George just to take all that 

2052
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:02,640
away given he hasn't really used
it that much yet. 

2053
01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:05,200
You know, like it's still been 
kind of feels like he's just 

2054
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:07,520
scratched the surface of his war
abilities well. 

2055
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:11,120
I would say that if the 
mechanism for John having a 

2056
01:41:11,120 --> 01:41:14,240
second life of of being 
resurrected is that he escapes 

2057
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:18,400
into ghosts and is in ghosts, 
then that would have been the 

2058
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:22,280
culmination of him using his his
work abilities, his skin 

2059
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:24,920
changing abilities. 
Is it saving him from complete 

2060
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:25,960
death? 
OK. 

2061
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:28,280
So that was that. 
That would be like the final use

2062
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:29,080
of them. 
Yeah, I. 

2063
01:41:29,080 --> 01:41:31,440
Don't know. 
To be clear, that's not what I 

2064
01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:32,840
think. 
But I think that would be my 

2065
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:34,680
argument. 
If I if you were saying, well, 

2066
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:36,800
we haven't seen it play out, I 
would say, well, that's the 

2067
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:42,520
that's the the IT playing out. 
Is him escaping into Ghost. 

2068
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:44,760
Yeah. 
But no, I think he'll still have

2069
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:47,520
his abilities. 
I like, I don't think Ghost. 

2070
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:50,280
And I don't think he'll go back 
into his body and his connection

2071
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:52,240
with Ghost will be suddenly 
severed. 

2072
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:55,400
Yeah, you know. 
And since John, that's a good 

2073
01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:57,440
point. 
And since John is shown that he 

2074
01:41:57,440 --> 01:42:00,160
wants to try to learn more about
the whites and their nature and 

2075
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:03,160
whether they have thoughts or 
feelings or what have you that 

2076
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:06,560
could progress, he might learn 
more about that. 

2077
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,360
That might be a thing that's 
coming for us, and it might be 

2078
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:10,920
even more poignant because he'll
be one of them. 

2079
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:13,520
And if we learn that they do 
have thoughts and feelings and 

2080
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,240
all that, then it will make the 
whole nature of undeath more 

2081
01:42:16,240 --> 01:42:17,760
horrifying. 
Which is kind of why I lean this

2082
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:20,240
way, because it's just such a 
grand, Even though it's tragic, 

2083
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:22,960
it's just a grand thing to add 
to it, rather than just being 

2084
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:25,120
empty vessels. 
That's still terrifying. 

2085
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:26,800
They're still dead walking and 
coming at you. 

2086
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:29,440
That's still terrifying. 
But if they have, they still 

2087
01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:30,520
have some of their humanity in 
them. 

2088
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:31,600
I don't know. 
It just gives us so much more 

2089
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:34,040
depth and makes it so much more 
terrifying. 

2090
01:42:34,040 --> 01:42:35,840
So I that's kind of where I 
lean. 

2091
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:38,240
And this is a path John is going
down, right? 

2092
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:41,760
He's getting a little darker. 
This is John, the man who killed

2093
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:43,960
John, the boy. 
This is Lord Commander, baby 

2094
01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:46,000
swapper. 
In addition to being one of the 

2095
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,120
few men with the moral fortitude
to see the free focus humans, I 

2096
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:52,880
always wanted John to say if you
don't see the free focus humans,

2097
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:57,320
you'll see them as whites. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

2098
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,760
And 'cause that is true there. 
If you don't see them as humans 

2099
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:03,120
and bring them South of the 
wall, they will attack you, as 

2100
01:43:03,120 --> 01:43:05,240
in their dead form. 
Yeah, there are a lot of 

2101
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:07,440
predictions about what kind of 
person John's going to be when 

2102
01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:10,320
he's resurrected. 
And yeah, more wolf like, more 

2103
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:13,200
fiery. 
Like I said before, I noticed 

2104
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:16,760
that none of those predictions 
guess that he will be nicer. 

2105
01:43:17,440 --> 01:43:19,200
Like why would? 
Yeah, why would you guess that? 

2106
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,640
Yeah, that's not happening yet. 
John's not going to get nicer, 

2107
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:24,040
not friendlier, it's only going 
to get worse. 

2108
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:27,120
Cold hands was also one of our 
setups for undead characters, 

2109
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:28,880
right? 
John being the clear main 

2110
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:30,480
character. 
So not only does he tell us 

2111
01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:34,040
things about skin changers and 
the powers of the old gods and 

2112
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:39,560
the magic of warding, like what 
you can keep out and in and 

2113
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:45,800
maybe undead skin changers too. 
So I don't think John's powerful

2114
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:50,360
enough to do this bloodraven 
thing of breaking a white free 

2115
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:52,320
from the others control and 
controlling it himself. 

2116
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:54,880
Assuming that's what happened. 
But yeah, Bran probably can. 

2117
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:57,400
I mean Bran is maybe already 
done things that Bloodraven 

2118
01:43:57,400 --> 01:44:00,080
can't do like the whole 
whispering to his talking to his

2119
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:02,600
father which he's like oh he 
couldn't hear you, He's like I'm

2120
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:07,920
pretty sure he heard him you 
know so if he could override the

2121
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:12,400
others control on a white if 
that's something Bloodraven can 

2122
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:16,680
do and Bloodraven doesn't think 
speaking through the past is 

2123
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:22,320
possible but Bran can do that. 
Then Bran can maybe do things 

2124
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:24,960
with the dead and the others 
that Bloodraven didn't know was 

2125
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:28,920
possible also yeah could he like
skin change into the dead Kind 

2126
01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:32,400
of like another. 
Would you be ready for that my 

2127
01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:35,360
fellow W organs? 
To see Bran like straight up 

2128
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:38,480
controlling undead armies 
himself, that seems maybe it's a

2129
01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:41,240
little far, but I don't know. 
It seems like maybe there's a 

2130
01:44:41,240 --> 01:44:44,040
little something to it, because 
what we're witness to here, it 

2131
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:48,480
really does seem like our best 
conclusion is something in the 

2132
01:44:48,480 --> 01:44:53,560
general range of Bloodraven 
controlling this being. 

2133
01:44:53,680 --> 01:44:59,400
But that involves control over 
undeath, whether creating it, 

2134
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:03,800
whether actually raising the 
being or seizing control of it 

2135
01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:05,800
from the being that did raise 
it. 

2136
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:08,080
Which I I sort of lean towards 
the latter. 

2137
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:12,400
I I don't think they can raise 
the dead, but somehow they 

2138
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:15,080
imbued the others with the 
ability to do that if the 

2139
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:17,280
children created them. 
So we definitely have to 

2140
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:21,280
consider the possibility like 
it's always felt similar. 

2141
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:25,200
Control over living animals, 
control over the dead animals 

2142
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:27,600
and dead living things, it's 
dead beings. 

2143
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:31,440
It's always been kind of closely
related ones, like the dark side

2144
01:45:31,440 --> 01:45:34,800
of that. 
But control over living animals 

2145
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:37,240
has a darkness to it as well, 
you know, especially if it 

2146
01:45:37,240 --> 01:45:40,400
extends to people and you start 
stealing their agency and 

2147
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:42,640
controlling them. 
So which brings us back to that 

2148
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:46,920
central theme again. 
It's dark this episode. 

2149
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:50,320
I swear this the places this 
episode took us to. 

2150
01:45:51,480 --> 01:45:53,640
It's really something else. 
I would love to hear more from 

2151
01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:56,200
you all about this. 
I hope we've inspired some 

2152
01:45:56,200 --> 01:46:00,360
additional theories, some 
additional percolation of the 

2153
01:46:00,360 --> 01:46:03,080
nature of magic, especially the 
old God's magic, but also the 

2154
01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:05,360
fire magic, because that 
obviously plays in here, as well

2155
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:08,680
as to what's possible as to how 
these things overlap as to how 

2156
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:10,960
they merge. 
You know, there's some thinking 

2157
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:16,000
out there that the old God's 
network was damaged or something

2158
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:19,480
like a virus got in there when 
Bloodraven was attached to it 

2159
01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:21,280
because of his Targaryen blood. 
I think that's maybe going a 

2160
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:24,800
little far, but I like the idea.
I like the concept of, you know,

2161
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:27,040
a a virus in the weirwood 
network. 

2162
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:29,360
We think we've we've thought 
about it like a computer network

2163
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,560
so many times that it that, 
continuing the the metaphor that

2164
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:34,920
way seems to work for me. 
I hope it works for you too. 

2165
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:38,560
And I wonder, yeah, it's like a 
a mind virus. 

2166
01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:41,000
Can Bran affect the others that 
way? 

2167
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:46,400
Is that a way to defeat them is 
by using some of their own magic

2168
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:50,440
back against them, or or using 
even stronger methods of 

2169
01:46:50,440 --> 01:46:54,520
control, going to even darker 
ethical places by enslaving even

2170
01:46:54,520 --> 01:47:00,120
more people to save humanity or 
using the powers of the enemy to

2171
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:02,040
do good? 
Yeah, I think. 

2172
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:06,320
I think if that's where this is 
going, if that's where Cold 

2173
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:09,240
Hands is taking us, if that's 
his, if he's the window into 

2174
01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:12,400
what Blood Raven can do, which 
is the window into what Bran and

2175
01:47:12,400 --> 01:47:17,880
John and maybe even Arya can do,
then we're nowhere near the end 

2176
01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:19,000
of that. 
We're really just at the 

2177
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,480
beginning of that. 
Like Bran is maybe eaten Jojen, 

2178
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:26,960
but he has barely begun to 
become a Green Seer. 

2179
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:30,920
I mean as far as Bran the Green 
Seer, a fully realized green 

2180
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:33,800
Seer, we haven't seen that yet 
unless you count the show, which

2181
01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:36,480
I don't because the I'm sure 
George is envisioning of this is

2182
01:47:36,480 --> 01:47:38,800
going to be substantially 
different, especially because 

2183
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,280
we'll probably see a lot of it 
from within his own mind which 

2184
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:46,400
just the the medium is so 
different TV versus POV style 

2185
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:49,600
thoughts of a character. 
It's one thing when they're 

2186
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:52,480
talking, but when they're 
thinking it's it's really hard 

2187
01:47:52,480 --> 01:47:55,480
to translate that to the screen 
and Brand's internal monologue, 

2188
01:47:55,480 --> 01:48:00,640
his internal thoughts, his 
processing of magic and time and

2189
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:03,600
being a child, these things are 
very difficult to. 

2190
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:07,240
I mean, yeah, it's hard to to 
picture that. 

2191
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:09,040
So it's going to be very 
different. 

2192
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:13,360
In the book, the elk eventually 
gives its life after exhaustion 

2193
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:14,920
and exposure. 
Bran feels terrible. 

2194
01:48:14,920 --> 01:48:17,680
I think that was a moment that a
lot of us felt really bad. 

2195
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:21,000
That brave animal carried them 
so far with so little sustenance

2196
01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:24,000
and then died to feed them so 
they could have enough food to 

2197
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:26,880
make it the rest of the way. 
I mean, that is, that's a noble 

2198
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:29,440
sacrifice, right? 
But that's essentially the 

2199
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:32,000
journey of cold hands himself. 
He did the same thing. 

2200
01:48:32,680 --> 01:48:35,120
He died only a few weeks after 
the elk. 

2201
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:38,320
He helped them get just as far 
as he could, then gave his life 

2202
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:41,640
at the last minute so they could
get those last few steps of 

2203
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:44,400
their journey. 
I think a lot of us took note of

2204
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:46,880
that for the elk because Bran 
did he, he cried. 

2205
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:51,800
And it's another moment of, you 
know, morality versus necessity,

2206
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:54,080
Bran tells himself, I'm never 
going to eat this elk. 

2207
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:56,600
It was you don't, shouldn't do 
that to a friend. 

2208
01:48:56,600 --> 01:48:58,960
And then he just has to. 
He's going to die if he doesn't.

2209
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:03,120
And that's isn't that 
Bloodraven's view of the fight 

2210
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:06,320
against the others, in a 
nutshell, well, if I don't do 

2211
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:07,680
horrible things, we're all going
to die. 

2212
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:10,960
Who cares about honor when we're
all going to die otherwise? 

2213
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:13,640
So I. 
But I I think that it's worth 

2214
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:15,200
shedding a tear for cold hands 
as well. 

2215
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:17,000
If you're going to shed a tear 
for that elk, shed a tear for 

2216
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:19,800
cold hands. 
He did the same thing He gave 

2217
01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:22,520
his life, such as it was, or his
death, his body. 

2218
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:25,200
We'll say he gave his body not 
long ago after the elk for the 

2219
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:28,640
same thing he died. 
A Ranger of the Night's Watch, 

2220
01:49:29,120 --> 01:49:33,600
serving the realm, the whole 
realm, as much as any Ranger can

2221
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:38,040
say so yeah, and if not his 
life, he gave his body, even if 

2222
01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:39,520
he didn't have full control over
it. 

2223
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:44,720
So, honorable sacrifice, true 
Ranger of the Night's Watch. 

2224
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:45,960
Even though we don't know who he
is. 

2225
01:49:46,120 --> 01:49:47,480
There's that old. 
I wish I'd thought of this 

2226
01:49:47,480 --> 01:49:49,880
before. 
There's a Tomb of the Unknown 

2227
01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:52,880
Soldier is a thing. 
And a lot of countries have this

2228
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:56,600
of soldiers remains that were 
not able to be identified. 

2229
01:49:56,920 --> 01:50:00,680
Cold Hands perhaps is the 
Unknown Ranger you know. 

2230
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:02,640
And his tomb is right outside 
Blood Raven's Cave. 

2231
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:07,040
Now the Green Seer Cave. 
An ancient place where which is 

2232
01:50:07,120 --> 01:50:10,200
itself is filled with bones. 
So it's sort of fitting as a 

2233
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:13,080
final resting place. 
But that's pretty poignant 

2234
01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:13,960
folks. 
I think So. 

2235
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:16,160
I think even these minor 
characters like this, even a 

2236
01:50:16,160 --> 01:50:20,320
nameless character like this, 
George has written so well that 

2237
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:22,760
we can feel a little something 
for him or a lot something for 

2238
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:24,120
him. 
I feel a lot something for him. 

2239
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:28,360
Few more questions from you all.
TK OK Podcast network shout out 

2240
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:32,520
to them. 
That's the new Dad podcast and 

2241
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:35,320
Pot Moms podcast. 
Several other shows, Great stuff

2242
01:50:35,320 --> 01:50:36,240
over there. 
Check them out. 

2243
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:38,800
Guilty Undertaker says. 
Well, when Benjen died, he 

2244
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:40,160
ceased to be Benjen and became 
cold hands. 

2245
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:42,200
So Benjen not being cold hands 
is true from a certain point of 

2246
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:45,000
view. 
OK, that's. 

2247
01:50:45,240 --> 01:50:46,200
That's true. 
That's true. 

2248
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:50,520
True Dornish Dame says. 
We know from Fire and Blood that

2249
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:52,840
a lot of Northerners went to 
those marriages, market things 

2250
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:54,320
after the dance. 
So there's a good injection of 

2251
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:56,120
northern blood in the Riverlands
at that time. 

2252
01:50:56,440 --> 01:50:57,800
Very true. 
Very true. 

2253
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:01,800
Yeah, I like that. 
There were a lot of that's true.

2254
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:04,960
To To recap what that was, a lot
of Northerners went S with Craig

2255
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:08,080
and Stark and then never had 
anyone to fight, and they 

2256
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:12,000
expected to come South and die. 
But the Riverlands had a 

2257
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:15,600
horrible amount of loss during 
the war, and so these 

2258
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:18,280
Northerners stayed 'cause there 
were a lot of lot of men had 

2259
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:19,760
died and there were a lot of 
widows. 

2260
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:23,760
And and why women that couldn't 
find a man because so many men 

2261
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:25,720
were killed. 
So the Northerns were like, hey,

2262
01:51:26,320 --> 01:51:28,360
we'll stay here instead and make
a home down here where it's 

2263
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:31,600
warmer and where there's lots of
marriage prospects. 

2264
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:33,960
So yeah, a lot of that northern 
blood in the Riverlands, which 

2265
01:51:34,600 --> 01:51:39,800
could explain how maybe could 
have increased the potential for

2266
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,400
skin changing or skin changers 
being born in the Riverlands, 

2267
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:46,920
which might even be where Blood 
Raven's ancestry partially comes

2268
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:49,200
from. 
Or some of the other potential 

2269
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:50,960
people down there. 
Julia suggests new theory. 

2270
01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:52,800
One of Vera Meer's kids, you 
mean. 

2271
01:51:53,440 --> 01:51:55,960
Who is she referring to? 
To be cold hands. 

2272
01:51:56,080 --> 01:51:57,560
Yeah. 
Interesting. 

2273
01:51:57,640 --> 01:52:00,280
I don't know that cold hands. 
Is is young enough for that, but

2274
01:52:00,280 --> 01:52:01,720
it's possible because we don't 
really know how old he is. 

2275
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:03,960
I mean, if they killed him long 
ago, that does put it on the 

2276
01:52:03,960 --> 01:52:06,040
shorter end. 
It's it's possible we don't. 

2277
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:06,680
Yeah. 
He's kind of age. 

2278
01:52:06,680 --> 01:52:08,440
We don't really get a sense of 
how old he is Skin. 

2279
01:52:08,440 --> 01:52:10,400
Change thing. 
She threw it out there as a, you

2280
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:11,040
know, I like. 
It. 

2281
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:11,960
Yeah, it it. 
It may be. 

2282
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:14,080
The timeline's a little tight on
that, but it's a good idea. 

2283
01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:15,760
Dornish Dame. 
They wouldn't have had memories 

2284
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,320
of Riker being 1st Ranger though
given they were Benjin's men and

2285
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:20,200
Riker was appointed when they 
didn't return. 

2286
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:22,160
So they must have had the 
ability to take in what's said. 

2287
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:26,720
Oh, very interesting. 
Maybe I like that idea, but 

2288
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:30,200
maybe they just went to the 
first Rangers quarters. 

2289
01:52:30,240 --> 01:52:33,400
But I don't know that the 1st 
Ranger has a specific quarters. 

2290
01:52:33,400 --> 01:52:35,240
They may just the 1st Ranger 
sleeps where the 1st Ranger 

2291
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:36,760
sleeps. 
There is necessary first Rangers

2292
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:40,360
like building there is that for 
the Lord Commander, but that 

2293
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:43,560
changes too cause John has 
picked John picked quarters that

2294
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:45,800
were different than Lord 
Commander Mormon if I remember 

2295
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:47,360
correctly. 
And certainly the Lord 

2296
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:50,080
Commander's tower, the Lord 
Commander can be wherever they 

2297
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:52,040
want. 
So that's a very good point that

2298
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:53,960
there's some listening some 
intelligence at work. 

2299
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:57,040
There wasn't just some dormant 
memory that they relied on 

2300
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:58,360
'cause that that's a very good 
point. 

2301
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:03,240
Riker was became 1st Ranger, 
acting 1st Ranger and then 

2302
01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:06,160
eventually 1st Ranger because 
Benjen it was missing. 

2303
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:07,680
That's a very good point. 
Guilty undertaker. 

2304
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:09,760
I like to imagine young Brendan 
Rivers messing with young bitter

2305
01:53:09,760 --> 01:53:11,840
steel by having random animals 
follow him everywhere. 

2306
01:53:12,800 --> 01:53:16,360
Yeah, that's really funny. 
Bitter Steel looks like a Disney

2307
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:17,600
Princess. 
Yeah, it's. 

2308
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:20,880
Like, get this off. 
It's like some rabbit just jumps

2309
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,560
up in like a bird's hair starts 
pecking at his skull. 

2310
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:27,800
You know birds are always 
dropping poop in his soup. 

2311
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:33,280
Like that's why he's bitter. 
Man's day-to-day life is 

2312
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:37,280
extremely frustrating. 
Every day is to put up with this

2313
01:53:37,480 --> 01:53:40,080
crap, literally falling out of 
the sky into his food. 

2314
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:45,520
Our trivia question was, who 
gives the nickname Cold Hands to

2315
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:47,400
Cold Hands? 
It's Sam. 

2316
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:49,760
It is Sam. 
It's it's at one point they say 

2317
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:52,280
Sam and Gilly, but then another 
point they just say Sam. 

2318
01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:56,600
So maybe it's Sam and Gilly. 
But Sam is the more direct 

2319
01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:58,160
answer, I guess. 
Makes sense. 

2320
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:00,840
Yeah, his hands are cold. 
Call him cold hands, Gilly. 

2321
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:02,160
Called him Cool hands. 
Cool. 

2322
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:04,360
Hands and. 
Sam was like, no, no, it's cold.

2323
01:54:04,400 --> 01:54:05,400
They're colder. 
Than that, Yeah. 

2324
01:54:06,440 --> 01:54:11,760
Our next release will be an 
episode that we did with Alt 

2325
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:14,200
Shift X back in. 
I guess it was October. 

2326
01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:16,240
Some of you may have heard it 
already over on his channel. 

2327
01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:18,840
It's the Song of Ice and Fire 
and Dune. 

2328
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:21,400
It is the influence of Dune on A
Song of Ice and Fire. 

2329
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:25,080
From the perspective of the Dune
movie, the first Dune movie. 

2330
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:30,720
There's no spoilers for the Dune
2 or the second-half of the Dune

2331
01:54:30,720 --> 01:54:31,800
book. 
If you've read Dune then there's

2332
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:33,960
certainly no spoilers at all, 
but if you've only seen the 

2333
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:35,640
first movie, it's perfect for 
you. 

2334
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:38,680
There's a lot there, a huge 
number of parallels. 

2335
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:41,560
We had a great chat and it's an 
edited version, so it's a little

2336
01:54:41,560 --> 01:54:44,000
cleaner than the one that was on
his channel. 

2337
01:54:44,280 --> 01:54:47,320
Yeah, I. 
Would say if you haven't checked

2338
01:54:47,320 --> 01:54:51,000
it out, wait for the podcast to 
be released on our end and 

2339
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:54,320
listen to that 'cause it is more
polished and cleaned up. 

2340
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:56,840
Will save you some time and and 
if you're trying to. 

2341
01:54:56,920 --> 01:54:58,400
Avoid spoilers. 
That's good too, 'cause there's 

2342
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:01,640
no spoilers in this one. 
We will release the secondary 

2343
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:05,880
episode. 
It's a lot shorter where we, me 

2344
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:10,080
and Algevtech started discussing
spoilery stuff, which applies to

2345
01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:11,680
the movie that's about to come 
out. 

2346
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:14,400
So those are separated we had. 
To split it because I didn't 

2347
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:17,000
want to get spoiled. 
I was editing it and I was like,

2348
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:19,680
I got to the point where it was,
it was going to be spoilers and 

2349
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:23,400
I was like, I don't really want 
to get spoiled as he. 

2350
01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:25,680
He's like. 
He'll edit that, yeah. 

2351
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:28,000
It's only it's under. 
It's about an hour editing for 

2352
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:31,560
him, so yeah. 
So some episodes that relate to 

2353
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:35,120
this one that if you want to 
stay immersed in the magic of 

2354
01:55:35,120 --> 01:55:37,960
the old Gods in the North, our 
episode on most recent episode 

2355
01:55:37,960 --> 01:55:40,760
on Craster and the Cold Gods is 
available. 

2356
01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:42,880
So is our episode on the 
children of the Forest that was 

2357
01:55:43,080 --> 01:55:45,120
a Valeritas for the World of Ice
and Fire episode. 

2358
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:48,480
We have some older episodes on 
religion and magic. 

2359
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:50,960
We have Weirwoods and the 
Weirwoods tour. 

2360
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:53,280
That's a big one that relates to
a lot of this very much. 

2361
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:55,120
And of course our three parts on
Bloodraven. 

2362
01:55:55,120 --> 01:56:00,480
The third part is about his time
after becoming Lord Commander. 

2363
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,360
The first two parts are his time
South of the wall as Hand of the

2364
01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:05,280
King during the black fire, 
rebellions and all that stuff. 

2365
01:56:05,280 --> 01:56:08,480
So they're all three together is
is a good way to do it. 

2366
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:11,480
But you can go straight to Part 
3 because you don't need parts 

2367
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:14,720
one and two to start with his 
time going north. 

2368
01:56:15,120 --> 01:56:19,600
But yeah, you're take your pick.
Lots of ways to consume those 

2369
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:23,800
episodes and enjoy them. 
Thanks to Nina for her notes. 

2370
01:56:23,800 --> 01:56:25,760
We discussed this quite a bit 
offline. 

2371
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:29,280
She and I talking about some of 
the conundrums about the warding

2372
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:31,480
and what John can pass and what 
he can't pass. 

2373
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:33,400
And fire magic versus cold 
magic. 

2374
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:36,000
Yeah, it was really helpful to 
me to to bounce those ideas off 

2375
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:37,520
of her. 
And a lot of you all had great 

2376
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:40,080
ideas as well. 
I I put some of these questions 

2377
01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:42,760
out into social media. 
I do that sometimes. 

2378
01:56:42,760 --> 01:56:46,840
But this one, I had a particular
thought to do that and I got a 

2379
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:49,720
lot of good feedback from you 
all and takes and and theories 

2380
01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:52,080
and that. 
So but we're not done with that.

2381
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:54,040
If you have some more ideas on 
cold hands, go ahead and send 

2382
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:55,280
them to us. 
Yeah, thanks to Nina. 

2383
01:56:55,280 --> 01:56:58,480
Thanks to Joey, Jesse, Brandon, 
Michael Klarfeld for all the 

2384
01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:02,480
great music and video intro and 
all the good stuff that we have 

2385
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:03,960
making our show look so 
professional. 

2386
01:57:04,200 --> 01:57:06,800
And of course the maps behind 
me, those are the the products 

2387
01:57:06,800 --> 01:57:11,040
of Clara docs.de that's KLARADOX
dot DE. 

2388
01:57:11,160 --> 01:57:14,360
You can buy the files from him 
and print the maps out at your 

2389
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:18,000
local Kinko's or FedEx or 
whatever, and it's pretty 

2390
01:57:18,000 --> 01:57:21,320
affordable. 
Thanks as well to anyone else 

2391
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:25,640
who supports us, Shares your 
love of our show with your 

2392
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:27,080
friends. 
That's super important. 

2393
01:57:27,080 --> 01:57:29,560
Word of mouth is the best way to
get new listeners. 

2394
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:34,360
Nothing sells a show like your 
best friend or your close 

2395
01:57:34,360 --> 01:57:36,760
friends telling you 
enthusiastically what they like.

2396
01:57:37,400 --> 01:57:39,560
Certainly how I treat my 
favorite shows. 

2397
01:57:39,560 --> 01:57:41,960
I tell my friends about them and
hope they listen to them. 

2398
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:44,960
So if you feel that way about 
our show, well, please spread 

2399
01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:47,320
the word. 
We could really use that and we 

2400
01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:50,440
certainly appreciate it. 
Until next time, you know what 

2401
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:53,760
to do, my friends. 
Valar Re Ritas.