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In a story where magic is 
limited but gradually 

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increasing, Melisandre stands 
out in both categories as a 

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practitioner of rare powers, 
powers which are growing in 

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scope and potential. 
As the story continues at The 

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Wall, for example, she thinks 
about how it empowers her more 

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than any place she's ever been 
before, how it will enable her 

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to do things she's never done 
before. 

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She considers that the Wall 
gives her more than even Ash 

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Eye, the supernatural ancient 
city she's associated with. 

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And the biggest but not only key
to her past, which is our 

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subject for today. 
We have no scenes from her 

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history, though we do have 
memories and her words, so it 

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will be her present that we will
quote and use to leverage our 

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imaginings of her past. 
It is likely a lot of past that 

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we're dealing with here too. 
This episode is dedicated to her

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time before arriving in 
Westeros, but the moment she 

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arrived in Westeros might be the
moment she became the oldest 

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living being in, well, human 
being in Westeros that that 

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single day. 
So, and also arguably she's not 

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human anymore, but that's a 
topic for another day. 

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That's a whole different 
category. 

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Her age though, or rather 
agelessness, is but one of many 

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mysteries surrounding her. 
She claims to surpass her peers 

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in many areas while also 
possessing powers that other Red

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Priests do not, such as Shadow 
Winding. 

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So we're pretty much going to 
have to go through all of her 

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powers and abilities and talents
to help understand how they fit 

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into her background. 
Like who taught her how to do 

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that stuff? 
Much of the intrigue around her 

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hidden upbringing, lies, and 
possible connections to those 

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and other related supernatural 
elements. 

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Like what does she know about 
people like Quaithe, who's from 

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Ashai and is a shadowbinder? 
And if Ashai has such a deep and

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ancient connection to dragon 
lore, well, what does she know 

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about Dragons? 
She was raised and educated in a

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place that's steeped in dragon 
lore, yet she has yet to speak 

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much about Dragons at all or 
even think about it. 

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But we will, and we have all 
that and more on this episode of

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History of Westeros podcast. 
Hello and welcome back 

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everybody. 
It's another episode, History of

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Westeros coming at you. 
Very excited to talk about this 

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very fun, interesting and deep 
character, one that we couldn't 

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possibly cover in one episode. 
We got a lot of notes on on Mel 

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aside or just on her past. 
But as I said in the intro, we 

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have to use her present to get 
at her past since we don't have 

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direct access to that. 
But we're going to delve deep 

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into that. 
I assure you, you will enjoy it.

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Live streams happen to most 
Sundays at 3:00 Eastern on 

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YouTube. 
You can find the replay 

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afterwards on YouTube or the 
following week on Spotify. 

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You can also find it on podcast 
platforms anywhere you listen to

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podcasts. 
And if you want to listen ad 

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free, you can check us out on 
Patreon where we have a special 

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feed that has no ads whatsoever.
This episode is brought to you 

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by Topics Moot 2024. 
We gathered all patrons at the 

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beginning of the year, did a 
series of voting, and came up 

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with 12 topics. 
This is topic #7. 

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There are five more that will be
finished before the end of the 

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year. 
We're very excited to be 

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covering all these fun things 
that y'all voted for. 

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Sean, how's it going? 
You're getting ready to talk 

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about Melisandre. 
I see you're wearing red. 

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Appropriately, I've got the 
Fiery Heart of Stannis, which is

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right on .2. 
Yeah, I think this is my reddest

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shirt, and I've also got a red 
drink. 

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I usually have magic mind, but 
today I wanted to honor 

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Melisandre. 
This is the Rainbow Naked Drink,

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which is a deep red color mixed 
with black Raspberry spark. 

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That is very, very richly, 
richly red there, that beverage,

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yeah. 
And I I should warn viewers that

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my unsoliedness might come 
through this episode because I 

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haven't done a thorough Valerie 
Redis. 

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I've done some Valerie watches, 
but man, I was mind blown 

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rereading some of the chapters. 
Melisandre saw Bloodraven in one

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of her visions like whoa. 
And then he saw her back. 

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Whoa. 
Yeah, that's. 

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Quite the topic we're on today. 
But I, you know, I was caught up

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in some enlightening moments on 
rereading it again. 

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You know, you say this all the 
time, but I'm telling you it's 

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things you I can't possibly. 
I don't know if I know who Blood

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Raven was when I read that 
chapter the first, like I maybe 

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had this big idea in my mind or 
something, but yeah. 

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Yeah, you've learned a lot since
then too. 

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That's right. 
So yeah, this'll be fun. 

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We're coming at you with someone
who's relatively new to the 

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material and someone like me 
who's who's been versed in it 

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for more than 20 years now. 
So hopefully that comes off well

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for y'all getting multiple 
angles on that. 

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And plus we have a Shay here 
weighing in every once in awhile

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with some good takes. 
So let's get to it. 

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I have the best insight of all. 
I'm someone who's cosplayed as 

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Melisandre. 
You are kind of a red woman 

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yourself. 
Yeah. 

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Nina, not as much red, but also 
a big presence in this episode. 

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Her notes are here and her notes
are usually in in pink. 

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So they're. 
It's kind of like it's almost 

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red. 
And look out for her blog over 

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at goodqueenalley.tumblr.com, 1L
and Alley. 

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And the latest blog post is a 
question about what if Viserys 

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had married Lena, a young Lena 
instead of Allison. 

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Would that have made the 
Valerians kind of like the 

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Hightowers, basically? 
And yeah. 

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You want to read her answer on 
that? 

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It's pretty interesting. 
It's it's a good take for sure. 

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Not quite, maybe not quite what 
you would expect. 

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You can, of course, send us 
questions. 

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We're at 
westeroshistory@gmail.com. 

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Or if you're watching live, why 
not shoot us a question live and

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we will very likely answer it. 
Trivia. 

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Let's start with the trivia 
question and then I'll read you 

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all the different sections we 
have for this episode. 

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There are multiple scenes where 
Melisandre sings, a notable 

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example being at the wedding of 
Alice Karstark and Sigourne, the

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Magnaar of Fen. 
Most of the time she sings in 

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the common tongue. 
That's the language everybody 

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can understand around her. 
But in one case she sings in 

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another language. 
What is that language? 

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Like most trivia questions I 
read on this podcast, the answer

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is somewhere during the episode,
but you might already know. 

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Good for you if you do. 
I will reveal at the end so the 

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the section headers this episode
we're going to talk about 

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firsts, her first mention in 
first appearance, her early 

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life, her time as a red 
priestess of all the things she 

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might have learned with that, 
that's going to take us a little

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while. 
Then we're going to talk about 

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her age and appearance, her 
glamours and her grand 

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presentations, her flame and 
heat control, things about 

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sacrifice, offer burning 
offerings, things like that. 

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Flame reading. 
Of course that's a big deal for 

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any relor, priestess or priest. 
Then we're talking about her 

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time in ash eye shadow binding 
her Ruby, then her influence on 

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Stannis ahead of time. 
Like what did she see in the 

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flames about him? 
Why did she come in the 1st 

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place? 
What brought her to to Westeros?

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And then a section called Dreams
of Dragonstone, which directly 

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relates to that. 
And then finally, we'll close 

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with a few identity theories, 
ideas that maybe she's a little 

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more than we think or maybe 
connected to some other 

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characters in ways that haven't 
yet been revealed, whether 

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that's through an ancestral 
connection or just having 

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knowledge on certain people or 
or otherwise people knowing of 

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each other, that hasn't been 
revealed yet. 

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So that's that. 
Let's do it. 

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Despite not knowing how old she 
is, we'll draw a similar line as

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we did for Amon. 
We did the Amon Before the Wall 

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episode recently and we almost 
called it young Eamon, but we're

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like, yeah, he wasn't really 
young. 

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In this case, it's even more 
distinctive. 

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Alessandra not young when she 
gets to Westeros. 

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In his case, it was his life 
before heading to the Wall. 

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We're just doing her life before
Westeros, which very long amount

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of time. 
We don't know how much, but she 

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came to support King Stannis, 
who she believes to be Azor 

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High. 
And coincidentally, like Maester

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Eamon, she is on the Wall. 
Not to take the black, 

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obviously, she's got her 
color-coded system, right. 

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Red, you know, no black needs to
be used. 

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They're all red. 
Red only, you know, none of 

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that. 
She was quite possibly a century

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or more old when she first 
arrived in Westeros, but we 

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really don't know. 
Something we'll talk about a 

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little bit, but ultimately we 
have no final answer on that. 

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And I recall back in maybe 2008 
or 9, I don't remember exactly 

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when, but well before Dance to 
the Dragons came out, which was 

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2011, George revealed that 
Melisandre would be Apov. 

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And that was a very surprising 
thing. 

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People were like, really, 
because he had said for so long 

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that characters who know too 
much will not get POV's were 

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like, well, so Melisandre 
doesn't know too much. 

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That was a surprise. 
Like, well, she and then when it

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came the actual chapter, there 
was a lot more surprises and and

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some clarification. 
One of the things that we 

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expected was that, well, we 
would never learn a lot of these

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supernatural things. 
She knows too many supernatural 

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things for us to get in her 
head. 

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Well, apparently George just 
made an exception. 

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And it's not like she has a lot 
of chapters. 

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There's just the one, though. 
Apparently we're getting at 

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least one more in The Winds of 
Winter. 

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Or, or it's just the simpler 
thing that her knowledge is not 

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as spoilery as we might have 
guessed. 

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Or now it's the time in the 
story to reveal these things 

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that have been hidden for so 
long. 

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And the other surprise was the 
sincerity, Sean, when you, when 

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you first read Melisandre, you 
had already watched the show. 

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So maybe you would already 
understood that she was pretty 

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sincere. 
But maybe early when you were 

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watching the show, did you 
wonder for a long time if if she

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was just a complete scammer or 
anything like that? 

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I believed her, if you will, but
I didn't. 

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I'm trying to think how to say 
this. 

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I believe that she believed what
she was saying, but that doesn't

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00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,800
mean it's right or that she 
doesn't have ulterior motives or

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00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,560
on and on, you know? 
And that's one thing I like 

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about the story in general. 
There's a lot of Gray area 

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mysteries, a lot of ways to 
interpret it. 

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Regardless. 
I didn't know she had a chapter.

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00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,200
I didn't know if George had 
announced that she would have. 

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I didn't know any of that. 
So I was a whoa when I got to 

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that. 
Whoa, Melisandre. 

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00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,080
Really, That was a exciting 
moment when I got to that, and 

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00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,800
it was a lot of exciting 
revelations that came through 

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00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,440
there, even as little as I 
understood about it. 

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00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,520
It was so much more meaningful 
to me reading it this past week 

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00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,160
so. 
Yeah, her introduction's pretty 

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00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,040
villainous, right? 
Yeah, well, I was going to say, 

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00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,880
you know, when I read that 
chapter, I think I didn't think 

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00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,560
she was a scammer, but I thought
she was delusional. 

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00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:21,280
OK, Do you know what I mean? 
Yeah, that makes. 

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00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,520
Sense yeah, she's fervent, but I
still thought she was not in her

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00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,720
right mind a little bit about 
some of her beliefs, I guess. 

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00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,760
And it took the show for me to 
be like, OK, she was, she was 

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00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,320
all in and she was right 
ultimately, like she was. 

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00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,320
And I that made me view that 
chapter very differently. 

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00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,680
I think I believe her more 
reading that chapter than I did 

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00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,640
on 1st read where I think I'm 
just a natural skeptic. 

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00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,920
Yeah, and so is Cresson, who 
just our first view of her, He's

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00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:53,000
everything's negative. 
He sees her in this dark light 

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00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,640
that she's evil, and he tries to
kill her, and she kind of mocks 

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00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,520
him. 
Then later we learn that the 

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00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,280
first thing she does every day 
is to look for danger to 

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00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,240
herself. 
So we know that she woke up that

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00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,360
day, looked for danger to 
herself and said, oh, Crescent's

224
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,200
going to try to poison me. 
So like, why is she going to be 

225
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,360
nice to this guy? 
You know, it's like, yeah, she 

226
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,040
put the helmet, Patchface's 
helmet, on him. 

227
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,840
And that was really mean, right?
But like, she knows he's trying 

228
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,320
to kill her. 
So, like, look at it from her 

229
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,880
perspective. 
Like yeah I mean it's still 

230
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,720
cruel but it's not so 1 sided. 
A couple other little comments 

231
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,920
there is that she might not 
necessarily have wanted to be 

232
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,000
mean to him or be a mean person.
She several times talks about 

233
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,560
the idea that it's important to 
present yourself as powerful, 

234
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,440
that it is at least a part of 
power is the trappings of power,

235
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,960
right? 
That there is some a Venn 

236
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:49,360
diagram there, but so she partly
needs to present herself with 

237
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,640
the ability to belittle this 
respected person in order to 

238
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,880
make herself seem more powerful.
Whether she really is powerful 

239
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,120
or not, she still needs to 
present herself that way. 

240
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,160
And I think that I another 
thought I have is if if she is 

241
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,960
hundreds of years old, she would
have a legit different 

242
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,920
perspective or maybe even a 
legit different morality. 

243
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,680
I think the morality can slide 
on scales based on like, I don't

244
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,360
know what, what wealth is. 
You have a different morality 

245
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:17,800
when you're starving than when 
you're a billionaire or 

246
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,720
whatever, right? 
So you might have a different 

247
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,440
morality when you're 400 years 
old. 

248
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,000
You just have, you've seen so 
many people live and die and the

249
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,920
reasons for it. 
And, and, and if you also have 

250
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:31,000
this vision of everyone dying, 
the idea of the life of one kid,

251
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,360
when you've already seen 
hundreds of adults die and you 

252
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,960
have visions of all humans 
dying, it might not be quite as 

253
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,840
evil for one kid to be 
sacrificed. 

254
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,080
Right, right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

255
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,960
So, so with this case, it's an 
old man too, and it's weird 

256
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,560
because she's older than him. 
So we see he's like, oh, she's 

257
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,440
tormenting this old man. 
No, she's older than him. 

258
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,480
It's like, no, you're, you're 
the the babe in the woods here 

259
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,360
Crescent. 
But anyway, we'll get to that 

260
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:56,560
scene. 
I have more to say on that scene

261
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,120
and I know you do too, but let's
get to that. 

262
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,200
Let's build up to that 'cause 
there's, there's a mother 

263
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,640
important context I want to lay 
out when we're discussing that 

264
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,600
scene and what. 
And you're right, she uses it. 

265
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,160
She uses that moment to to gain 
more attention from the man 

266
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,080
she's trying to get attention 
from in the 1st place with 

267
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,760
Stannis. 
The other thing, not so much 

268
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,320
about that scene per SE, but 
just, you know, my, might be my 

269
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,480
perspective of her in general 
and how it evolved, is that I, 

270
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,520
sometimes I feel like maybe she 
has this bigger mission of 

271
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,040
saving humanity, but other times
she's burning innocent people, 

272
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,040
at least relatively innocent, 
you know. 

273
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,880
So I, I, I, I, I wanna say that 
some, in some ways that chapter 

274
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,520
made her seem not so evil 'cause
she wanted to spare Davos's 

275
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,960
fifth son, but also she still 
burned people. 

276
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,960
So she's still evil. 
But also maybe evil has a 

277
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,560
different meaning when you're 
that old and you're trying to 

278
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,400
save humanity. 
So it's she's an interesting 

279
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:47,880
character. 
We'll talk about. 

280
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,280
So she's also the way she's 
introduced and the way she 

281
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,800
appears now. 
There's been a lot of change in 

282
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,680
the way we view her as readers. 
And some of that is probably 

283
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,800
George's intent, others is 
probably that he's actually 

284
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,400
changed a little bit of his 
conception for her. 

285
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,800
He's probably grown his idea of 
the character over time. 

286
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240
It has been a long time and 
that's changed how she's been 

287
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,960
written and that's more 
meaningful to a character of her

288
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,280
ilk because she's so ancient and
supernatural. 

289
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:15,960
There's more space and time to 
be filled in. 

290
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,320
There's only so much back story 
a 20 year old can have, and with

291
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,000
A Song of Ice and Fire we have 
PO VS as young as seven in 

292
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,840
Bran's case. 
Bran is an interesting 

293
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,560
comparison here because he's the
most explicitly magical 

294
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,320
character POV, other than 
perhaps Melisandre who is the 

295
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,520
oldest POV. 
So probably so the youngest and 

296
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,520
oldest PO VS the being the most 
supernatural. 

297
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,680
That's pretty cool. 
I like that little neat little 

298
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,560
little bookend there. 
So let's go to the first we we 

299
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,560
like to start with first, lots 
of mystery in her back story. 

300
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,840
We can at least say that when 
she appears on screen for the 

301
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,320
first time on page, she's a 
fully formed character. 

302
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,280
Yes, she's changed a little bit 
over time, but she's extremely 

303
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,200
well defined, like in terms of 
her own personality, what she's 

304
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,080
there for. 
She's got goals, she's got plans

305
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,600
and pretty much no one she 
encounters is is ready for that.

306
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,880
She's constantly back footing 
people with her preparedness, 

307
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,280
her dedication and, frankly, her
power and her appearance, which 

308
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,440
those two things are linked. 
So she's developed. 

309
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,840
Yeah. 
And keeping with the brand 

310
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,080
comparison, she's also about as 
far from a child as we could 

311
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,800
get. 
Let's talk about her first 

312
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,560
mention. 
This is Tywin to Kevin and 

313
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,160
Tyrion. 
Tyrion 9A Game of Thrones quote.

314
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,880
I have felt from the beginning 
that Stannis was a greater 

315
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,360
danger than all the others 
combined, yet he does nothing. 

316
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,080
Oh. 
Varys hears his whispers. 

317
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,960
Stannis is building ships. 
Stannis is hiring cell swords. 

318
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,080
Stannis is bringing a 
shadowbinder from a shy. 

319
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,880
What does it mean? 
Is any of it true? 

320
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,520
As an aside, it's interesting 
that he mentions a shadow 

321
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,040
binder, not a red priestess. 
The shadow binder is the part 

322
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,800
that got their attention, or at 
least the part that George 

323
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,680
wanted to point out early on. 
And we later here, she's been 

324
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,920
there for years. 
It's not she got Santa's 

325
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,280
attention kind of for the first 
time in that scene with 

326
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,080
Crescent. 
Like he was aware of her, but he

327
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,920
kind of ignored her. 
But she's been a little patient.

328
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,240
But it also shows that she's 
years ahead of this curve on the

329
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,400
Azora High thing. 
Like in in A Dance with Dragons,

330
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,400
the HUD priest of the Red Temple
of Volantis, the biggest one in 

331
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,720
the world is openly preaching 
that Daenerys is Azora High. 

332
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,960
So things have progressed quite 
a bit, but Melisandre had been a

333
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,760
Dragonstone for years ahead of 
Danny getting there. 

334
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,040
Maybe. 
Again, she's probably jumped the

335
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,680
gun thinking this stuff is about
Stannis, and that's just by 

336
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,400
itself pretty interesting. 
This is a great example of. 

337
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,440
You got to consider the source 
because let's just assume Varus 

338
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,840
got accurate information, which 
might not be true, right? 

339
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,160
But assume he did. 
He still might have wanted to 

340
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,160
present her as a Shadowbinder 
instead of a Red priestess 

341
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,200
because that is easier for Tywin
to dismiss, right? 

342
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,600
A shadowbinder is this magical 
thing from far away, whatever, 

343
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,280
just like he's doing, he 
dismisses it. 

344
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,400
But if he said a red Priestess, 
he'd be like, oh, that's a 

345
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,040
religion. 
It comes with some real power, 

346
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,160
even though he would have 
thought a different thing about 

347
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,200
real power than Melisandre's 
magical power. 

348
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,320
But I think it's a great example
of how Varus might have 

349
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,800
presented this to Tywin in a way
that he wanted him to react the 

350
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,840
way he is. 
Yeah, it's quite possible. 

351
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,920
So for example, one of her 
proofs to prove who she is, 

352
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,800
that's one of the things that 
takes her a while, is to 

353
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,360
establish that she really is who
she says he is, that she really 

354
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:26,480
has power. 
All that and we get an early one

355
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,440
example here with a A1 line 
quote. 

356
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,560
Melisandre has gazed into the 
flames and seen him dead. 

357
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,280
This is said by Solis and the 
hymn in question is Renly. 

358
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,800
And that's what happened. 
So that proves she proves her 

359
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,360
her value there by predicting 
this death, predicting and then 

360
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,320
making it happen. 
And then she actually appears 

361
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,520
shortly after this. 
So we've we've heard from her, 

362
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,960
we've heard her name said, but 
her actual first appearance. 

363
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,360
This is a nice lengthy quote. 
A great moment when Crescent 

364
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,680
bumps into Patchface, falls 
down, and then we meet her. 

365
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:04,440
He felt strong hands grasp him 
under the arms and lift him back

366
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,160
to his feet. 
Thank you, Sir. 

367
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,920
He murmured, turning to see 
which night had come to his aid.

368
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,440
Maester, Said Lady Melisandre, 
her deep voice flavored with the

369
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,360
music of the Jade Sea. 
You ought take more care. 

370
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:25,120
As ever, she wore red head to 
heel, a long loose gown of 

371
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:30,280
flowing silk as bright as fire, 
with dagged sleeves and deep 

372
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,040
slashes in the bodice that 
showed glimpses of a darker 

373
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,160
blood red fabric beneath. 
Around her throat was a red gold

374
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,960
choker, tighter than any 
maester's chain, ornamented with

375
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,960
a single great Ruby. 
Her hair was not the orange or 

376
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,360
strawberry color of common red 
haired men, but a deep burnished

377
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,720
copper that shone in the light 
of the torches. 

378
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,840
Even her eyes were red, but her 
skin was smooth and white, 

379
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,680
unblemished, pale as cream, 
Slender. 

380
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,560
She was graceful, taller than 
most nights, with full breasts 

381
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,560
and narrow waist and a 
heart-shaped face. 

382
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:20,280
Men's eyes that once found her 
did not quickly look away, not 

383
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,520
even a maester's eyes. 
Many called her beautiful. 

384
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:30,240
She was not beautiful. 
She was red and terrible and 

385
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,680
red. 
Oh, yeah, most, a lot of people 

386
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,640
remember that specific line 
about Melisandre. 

387
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,680
Red and terrible and red. 
It's just such good writing. 

388
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,000
You know, it's like, wow, you 
make that repetition so 

389
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,120
meaningful. 
It's really good. 

390
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,480
They really, really get the vibe
from Crescent like, oh, this, 

391
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,120
he's so intimidated and and 
frightened and worried. 

392
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,680
The Ruby, the implied glamours, 
how she makes use of her 

393
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,920
appearance and how that might 
have been part of her training. 

394
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,640
Remember, we're focusing on how 
she learned all this, what it 

395
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,360
does, what it means for her, 
where, why she learned it and 

396
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,600
how it's guiding her and her her
task. 

397
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,480
These are all topics for today. 
She's so strong that he thinks 

398
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,680
she's a knight, right? 
He doesn't see her. 

399
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,000
This isn't glamour, right? 
So he doesn't know it's her. 

400
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,520
So this is real strength. 
So she really is strong. 

401
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,560
And this is backed up by other 
things. 

402
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,360
It's a notable detail, like she 
carries Stannis's banner at 

403
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:25,480
multiple times, which is banners
are really heavy and it's really

404
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,080
important that they stay up 
because it's looks like the 

405
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,280
royal symbol, especially in 
battle. 

406
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,160
Now, she doesn't actually carry 
it in battle because, well, we 

407
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,080
don't. 
She's not in at the Battle of 

408
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,360
the Blackwater and there is no 
other battle for her to 

409
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,360
participate in. 
But still, it's a notable 

410
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,880
detail. 
Soldiers, Marines who can do 100

411
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,680
push ups and run for miles. 
When they carry the flag, they 

412
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,520
have a harness that it mounts 
into. 

413
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,200
They don't just walk around 
holding it. 

414
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,160
You know, I believe it not so 
heavy you can't just pick it up 

415
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,960
and hold it. 
But if you're going to carry it 

416
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,960
around and, you know, like in an
entourage for, you know, hours 

417
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,520
or whatever, yeah, you need, you
can't just do that. 

418
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,160
You need some strength. 
It's usually done by a knight, 

419
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,600
like it's usually like a 
position of honor. 

420
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,960
So the fact that Stannis let her
do it also is is kind of 

421
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,080
meaningful, like taller than 
most Knights is also like wow, 

422
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,040
like that's really tall. 
I mean, it's not Brienne or like

423
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,200
Tanzel, but it's up there. 
That's. 

424
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,000
Probably close to 6 feet tall. 
I would guess yes. 

425
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,120
And just to put it into context,
like taller than most nights, 

426
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:26,320
it's probably taller than like 
five 10511. 

427
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,080
I agree. 
Yeah, definitely agree. 

428
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,320
Cool. 
And it maybe it's exaggerated, 

429
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,520
you know, and it's only 5/8 or 
510. 

430
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,040
Still, she's got impressive. 
It's special. 

431
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,000
Only pressing or most people, 
yeah. 

432
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,440
Isn't that possible that she's 
like, she's just got a really 

433
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,800
long gown and she's wearing some
tall heels? 

434
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,320
High heels, yeah. 
There's. 

435
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,800
Really. 3 red priestess 
underneath the gown. 

436
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,600
She's 3 red. 
She's Mel is and Andre. 

437
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,960
Yeah, there's Andre. 
And yeah, Lis and Andre. 

438
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,560
That is, Mel is. 
Andre. 

439
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,200
Mel is Andre. 
She's actually Andre. 

440
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,560
Yeah. 
Mel is Andre 3000. 

441
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,000
She is not Mel is Andre 3000. 
I use that. 

442
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,720
See, I wrote that joke later in 
the episode. 

443
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,440
I had to use it here because 
because we're talking about how 

444
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,640
old she is because Mel is not 
Andre 3000. 

445
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,840
She's not 3000 years old. 
So it it's it's practically, 

446
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,160
like I said, it's going to have 
an impact. 

447
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,520
She maybe she added a few inches
through glamouring, maybe not. 

448
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,640
Maybe she really is that tall. 
Either way, nights you know, 

449
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,640
it's a it's a might makes right 
world. 

450
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,400
It's a strength comes first kind
of world and and Knights. 

451
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,880
Men aren't used to women who are
taller than them. 

452
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,920
They you you they expect to kind
of physically dominate all women

453
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,280
or just all people. 
And she's looking down on them 

454
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,400
and not afraid and they're 
afraid of her. 

455
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,080
It's just, it's a role reversal.
They're used to like I can 

456
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,040
dominate any woman, you know, 
like, no, well, you just met 1. 

457
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,080
You can't, you know, and, and 
she can dominate you. 

458
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,560
And so they just, they just 
don't know what to do with that.

459
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,000
You know, it's this is the whole
thing about Melisandre is 

460
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,760
everybody is backfooted by her, 
even Stannis, who is extremely 

461
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,000
proud and and got a lot of 
confidence and stubbornness. 

462
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,360
And even he is kind of backed 
into a corner by her in ways 

463
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,240
that maybe he doesn't like to 
admit, but seems pretty clear if

464
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,360
you look at how things play out 
now, Thoros and Macoro are also 

465
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,560
very big, like big, tall and 
thick men. 

466
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,640
Banero, who is the again, the 
head priest at the Red Temple in

467
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,840
in Volantis, who was Macoro's 
boss. 

468
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,840
He's not big, but he is tall. 
So we have another tall so far, 

469
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,280
you know, what is it? 
We haven't seen a lot of red 

470
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,680
priests, but the ones we've 
seen, they're all tall. 

471
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,400
The taller the priest, the 
closer to relor. 

472
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,800
That's what I've heard. 
That's how they recruit. 

473
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,840
Nina adds that Stannis being 
tall, it might have an impact on

474
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,240
his view of her that she's not 
so tiny compared to something 

475
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,720
like most people Stannis 
encounters are just a lot 

476
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,720
smaller than him. 
He's way taller than most 

477
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,680
nights. 
Like don't think of show Stannis

478
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,320
book Stannis is as tall as 
Robert, but not nearly as 

479
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,560
muscled or thick, but still 
pretty muscled and thick, just 

480
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,960
just less so than. 
And then of course, he loses 

481
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,840
some of that when he the shadow 
babies make him lose some of his

482
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760
his physicality, which we never 
get a good look at because that 

483
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,040
doesn't really the show Stannis 
also doesn't really get the the 

484
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,720
drained look to him so much. 
So when we meet her, she's cruel

485
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,520
to Crescent and does the helmet 
thing. 

486
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,080
And did she is she actually 
immune to poison Sean? 

487
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,320
This is an interesting question 
we have. 

488
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:17,920
Or did she because she saw the 
danger in the flames that 

489
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,240
morning when she looks every 
morning to see if anyone's 

490
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,200
coming for her, she's like, OK, 
this guy's going to try to 

491
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,840
poison me. 
I'm going to take the antidote 

492
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,040
in advance. 
It'll look like I'm immune to 

493
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,800
poison when reality I've just 
played it up a little. 

494
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,640
I can believe she might be 
immune to poison or this poison 

495
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,360
or something, but I I definitely
got to wonder if this isn't one 

496
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:40,160
of the examples of her making 
herself look powerful by using 

497
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,560
something a mundane that makes 
it look magical. 

498
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,320
Was there just like a generic 
antidote she could take, or did 

499
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,760
she know exactly what he would 
try to poison her? 

500
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,200
With that's a good question like
she might have known it was the 

501
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,160
strangler, which is made in ash 
eye or the OR the plant comes 

502
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,360
from that. 
Shawn's ready to give an answer 

503
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:54,840
here. 
Go for. 

504
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,680
It yeah, I, I, I've thought 
about this I and I don't have a 

505
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,280
direct confident answer, but I 
have a lot of thoughts to put 

506
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,080
into it. 
They give a lot of description 

507
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,920
to Crescent pulling his poison 
out. 

508
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,960
They talked it like the little 
purple crystals and dot, dot. 

509
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,800
So she might have seen that. 
That might have been her vision 

510
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,920
as these purple crystals, and 
she knew what that was. 

511
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,280
Oh, that's the strangler. 
Oh, someone going to poison me. 

512
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,840
Who would do that? 
Oh, probably Crested. 

513
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,080
She might have not this. 
Does that make sense? 

514
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,720
Part of her quote UN quote power
is beyond magical. 

515
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,240
Even if she's magical, she still
has a certain experience, 

516
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,280
knowledge and shrewdness to be 
able to use her magic or magic 

517
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,480
like powers. 
Right? 

518
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,160
Like some other person with the 
same vision. 

519
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,720
Some other person seeing these 
purple crystals get rolled out 

520
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,200
might not have known what that 
meant, but she knew. 

521
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,720
Oh, that's the ingredients for 
the Strangler. 

522
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,240
Maybe I'm going to be poisoned. 
I'm looking for danger. 

523
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,280
Who would poison me? 
Kressa might poison me. 

524
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,000
Let me get ready for this, 
right? 

525
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,720
That she could put a lot of her 
life experience together to 

526
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,800
properly interpret this vision 
that someone else wouldn't have.

527
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,720
Whether she's immune to poison 
or not, that is powerful, right?

528
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,520
That that knowledge, that 
preparedness, that deductive 

529
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,280
reasoning and everything else. 
So I think it's very possible 

530
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,640
that she's not immune to 
poisonous. 

531
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,960
She just was prepared for this. 
Flip side, whether all that is 

532
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,440
true or not, she might also be 
not exactly immune to poison. 

533
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,640
She might be a sort of undead 
creature that just can't be 

534
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,880
poisoned or stabbed or get 
cancer. 

535
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,640
Or does that make sense? 
She. 

536
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,360
Doesn't need to eat or drink. 
So it's not, it's not a stretch,

537
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,880
Yeah. 
The fact that she doesn't need 

538
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,320
food, right, that she feels like
she just eats food to maintain 

539
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,680
the illusion for people. 
But she the Rellore gives her 

540
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,160
all this stuff and sense she 
that's freaking magic, that's 

541
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,440
powerful and that's tragic. 
And the fact that that is part 

542
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,560
of her might also meet like I 
wonder when she does eat food, 

543
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,920
is it like does it make her 
sick? 

544
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,560
Like that part of the vampire 
lore? 

545
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,680
They get stick when they eat 
food. 

546
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,960
And what we do in the shadows 
when they eat food and they're 

547
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,960
like, they just projectile 
vomit. 

548
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,880
Projectile vomit. 
You know, maybe she just has an 

549
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,760
uneasy stomach when she eats 
bread, and maybe this poison 

550
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,360
does the same thing. 
Like it could also be that she's

551
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:07,960
not. 
Whether she has some sort of 

552
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,600
immunity poison or took some 
antidote. 

553
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,000
We also know that sometimes she 
struggles through these moments 

554
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,120
that she presents this strong 
facade. 

555
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,320
But really her Ruby is burning 
her when she tries to maintain 

556
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,560
Mance's illusion or whatever, 
right? 

557
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,480
So it could be the inside she is
feeling the effects of the 

558
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,480
poison, but she has strong 
enough of character to keep calm

559
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,400
and keep cool and make it 
through this moment at dinner. 

560
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,000
And then afterwards she goes and
pukes. 

561
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,480
But that still is more than 
Joffrey or what else could do 

562
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,080
with the Strangler. 
So I I think the answer to the 

563
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,760
question is almost, it doesn't 
matter. 

564
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,080
She is powerful. 
Whether it's from knowledge or 

565
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,760
magic, she is powerful. 
Yeah, And she used this moment 

566
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,640
to project that power. 
She's like, this is what got 

567
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:52,880
Stannis to really take notice of
her. 

568
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,120
Like, wow, she just drank poison
in front of everybody and lived 

569
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,440
like, that's just like, dramatic
and. 

570
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,680
And grand, like everyone saw it.
It was like impressive. 

571
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,680
It was probably like the the 
talk of the castle for the next 

572
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,280
week or so. 
And before that moment, Stannis 

573
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,440
had not paid her a whole lot of 
attention. 

574
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,240
And you're right. 
Like, it's, it's not just 

575
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,280
dramatic. 
It's like her power triumphing 

576
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,400
over the power of the maester. 
Like the maester is a wise 

577
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,600
regarded man, someone who's 
deeply knowledgeable, who's 

578
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,760
helped Stannis a long time. 
His knowledge has helped a lot 

579
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,800
of people, his healing. 
Everyone in the castle probably 

580
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,240
owes him some thanks. 
You know, I got Melisandre just 

581
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440
like completely undid him. 
And that's, that's, that's it 

582
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,800
was very, it was very much like 
a stage performance. 

583
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,800
And he, not directly, but very 
much also sort of represents the

584
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,600
seven. 
Yeah, that's true. 

585
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,120
She. 
Just crushed him aside. 

586
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,200
She just crushed him. 
Yeah. 

587
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,200
And then the next scene we got 
is him burning the seven. 

588
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,360
Stannis is burning the seven. 
All right, so, so this is easier

589
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,720
to to dial this all back to sort
of the point of our episode. 

590
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,960
These are things she learned. 
She learned how to use her 

591
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,080
powers great effect, the the 
mixture of real power and fake 

592
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,720
power to have an impact on a 
crowd of watching people of 

593
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,120
witnesses of people that she 
seeks to draw into her belief 

594
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,080
system to convince them of what 
she's saying. 

595
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,800
These are things that any 
religion that sends out people 

596
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,360
to recruit will do things like 
this. 

597
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,160
She's just a lot more capable 
because she has real power and a

598
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,360
lot more experience. 
And she's beautiful. 

599
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,160
Well, not beautiful. 
She's red and terrible and red. 

600
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,160
Well, however you want to phrase
that it's effective, it's it 

601
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,120
draws the eye, right? 
Like Crescent doesn't deny that 

602
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,080
everyone looks at her. 
You know, it's like, wow, look 

603
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,920
at damn, she's scary and 
beautiful or not beautiful or 

604
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,560
whatever you want to call it. 
You can't not look at her. 

605
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,760
Let's talk about her early life.
Let's move back in time now that

606
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,160
we've done some intro stuff. 
Nearly everything about her 

607
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,320
orbits around Relore, but she 
stands out from the other Relore

608
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,000
worshippers in some significant 
ways. 

609
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,880
It's very much in line with 
George's style in a way. 

610
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,920
I've gone on in many times about
how he loves to give us the 

611
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,080
answer before he gives us the 
question. 

612
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,480
We have mysteries that we get an
answer to before the question is

613
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,200
even reveals. 
We're like, oh, what's the 

614
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,000
answer to this question? 
Well, you actually got that a 

615
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,400
book ago, you just didn't 
recognize it at the time. 

616
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,600
This is a similar version of 
that where George introduces 

617
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,720
Melisandre and kind of, we knew 
Thoros a little bit before 

618
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,320
Melisandre, but, but really 
Melisandre we get to know a lot 

619
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,680
better than Thoros pretty 
quickly. 

620
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,880
Most of what we know about 
Thoros comes a little later. 

621
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,280
He's just kind of barely 
introduced early in the Game of 

622
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,400
Thrones. 
And then we it's Clash and 

623
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,600
really Storm where we get to 
know him. 

624
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,800
But Melisandre, we get to know 
her right away in Clash, and 

625
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,160
we've only seen other 4 red 
priests with names. 

626
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,080
There's only 5 total and one of 
them hardly counts because it's 

627
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,280
just like this drunk guy in 
Braavos that Arya gives a name 

628
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,680
for and no other detail other 
than he's a drinker and a red 

629
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,440
priest. 
So like, what do we do with that

630
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,040
anyway? 
Yeah, I don't even know if he's 

631
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,320
tall. 
He's even tall. 

632
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,520
He has two ZS in his name. 
So I like that because I also 

633
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,560
have two ZS in my name. 
Basically, what I'm. 

634
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,160
My point here is that we meet 
the exception to the red priests

635
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,480
before we find out what a normal
red priest is like. 

636
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,960
Melisandre is an exception, but 
we meet her first. 

637
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320
And they were like, oh, Thoros, 
Banero, Macoro. 

638
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,840
They're they're still pretty 
outstanding, but they're closer 

639
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,800
to normal than Melisandre by 
far. 

640
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,240
Like especially like the things 
like the shadow binding. 

641
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,600
But that's not nearly the only 
thing. 

642
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,960
So that's a, that's a very 
George thing to do. 

643
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320
So she's pretty atypical. 
And but other things are maybe 

644
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,520
kind of normal. 
Like some of the things that 

645
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,840
most would add about her are 
actually maybe kind of normal, 

646
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,840
like the age thing, like Macoro,
who knows how old that guy is. 

647
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,320
He's not. 
He might be really old. 

648
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,240
We don't know. 
Bonero. 

649
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,360
I suspect Bonero is pretty darn 
old. 

650
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,640
He's pale like her, which kind 
of gives that. 

651
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,320
Like the pale paleness kind of 
is a sign for ageless cyclic 

652
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,360
blood Ravens albino. 
So it doesn't really count for 

653
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,840
him, but. 
He's an old soul. 

654
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,800
Yeah. 
So Benero might be older than 

655
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,680
Melisandre, I've no idea, but I 
would, I would not be surprised 

656
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,080
if that was the case. 
And another thing many have in 

657
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,960
common is being enslaved red 
priests. 

658
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,480
They're all slaves basically 
there. 

659
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,000
So there's little childhood to 
speak of before their time with 

660
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,800
the Red Priests. 
And whatever they would have is 

661
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,720
a distant memory of like, who 
remembers before they were 

662
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:16,480
seven? 
Very well. 

663
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,360
Like, maybe a few things here 
and there, but most, most folks 

664
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,040
don't, especially if you're like
200 years old. 

665
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,880
That would be farther away, 
right? 

666
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,080
So there's a strong reason to 
suspect that while Thoros was 

667
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,680
sold, he says, given his family 
gave him to the Red Temple, is 

668
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,000
that really it's still 
enslavement? 

669
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,560
I mean, it's like, oh, there's 
no financial transaction that 

670
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,040
makes it ethical. 
No, of course not. 

671
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,040
It's still slavery. 
So Melisandre was just sold in 

672
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,360
general on the slave markets. 
Maybe that's kind of how all the

673
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,160
interpretation works and that 
the the buyer just happened to 

674
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,080
be the Red Temple. 
It wasn't that she was directly 

675
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,680
given to them. 
And here's where we get that 

676
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:53,560
idea. 
Here's the quote. 

677
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,120
It's a distant memory of it when
she's looking into the flames. 

678
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,720
The fire was inside her, an 
agony, an ecstasy filling her, 

679
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:07,480
searing her, transforming her. 
Shimmers of heat traced patterns

680
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,920
on her skin, insistent as a 
lover's hand. 

681
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,840
Strange voices called to her 
from days long past. 

682
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:17,679
Melanie. 
She heard a woman cry. 

683
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,800
A man's voice called. 
Lot 7. 

684
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:26,560
She was weeping and her tears 
were flame, and still she drank 

685
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,960
it in. 
So she's staring in the flames, 

686
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,400
getting visions, and it's just 
she doesn't always see what she 

687
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,719
wants. 
This is the nature of flame 

688
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,639
reading for someone who's very 
experienced, it just kind of 

689
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:41,400
dances around and swirls. 
It's very chaotic and this is 

690
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,920
part of what she says on 
multiple occasions. 

691
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,960
It's a long, difficult process 
to learn and to read the flames.

692
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,480
And even when you get really 
wet, good at it, you still, it 

693
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,159
still goes places you don't want
it to. 

694
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,320
It's like memory, your memory 
just sometimes your brain goes 

695
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,840
places you're not really wanting
it to go. 

696
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,480
You have trauma, you have 
memories that are intrusive, 

697
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,640
whatever you want to. 
Call it long, difficult and 

698
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,400
painful. 
Painful, she points out. 

699
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,760
Yes, painful. 
You're right. 

700
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,000
That's really important. 
So she in this context also, 

701
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,640
she's wanting visions of 
Stannis, but she gets lots of 

702
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,880
other things. 
She gets this this vision of her

703
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,320
past, the vision of Alice 
Karstark, the vision of ominous 

704
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,800
towers crumbling into the sea. 
And then you know this. 

705
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,120
So there's a strong hint that 
her given name was Melanie. 

706
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,680
And Melisandre is a like a 
adaptation from her original 

707
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,480
name. 
And that was her mother calling 

708
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,320
out for her. 
And then this man who yelled Lot

709
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,960
7 is just like the auctioneer or
something like that. 

710
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,640
It seems like that makes sense. 
So these are probably these 

711
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,320
might be overlapping memories 
rather than the mother 

712
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,360
witnessing her auction, but 
that's possible too. 

713
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,280
And it's really important all 
this because so much of the end 

714
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,720
game of A Song of Ice and Fire 
is focused on the question of 

715
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,160
freedom versus slavery, right? 
Like that's a big deal. 

716
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,040
Like the others are an enslaving
force. 

717
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,760
They seek to, you know, control,
kill everyone and rule them as 

718
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,720
dead people. 
Like that's that's an an 

719
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,520
allegory for slavery. 
But arguably what the red 

720
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,040
priests are doing is a little 
similar. 

721
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,960
They just kind of drink their 
own kool-aid like Madero 

722
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,920
preaches how when the long 
summer comes, no one will die 

723
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:14,960
and there's a summer without 
end. 

724
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,560
That doesn't doesn't sound good.
Maybe it'll maybe it sounds 

725
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,120
slightly better than the others 
invading, but it's also it 

726
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,800
sounds pretty bad. 
So I think that's fascinating 

727
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,600
that more Melisandre is is so 
immersed on in both angles of 

728
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,240
this that the horrific reality 
of slavery is something she's 

729
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:34,280
actually lived through. 
And that gives her a lot more 

730
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:40,200
context and and maybe motivation
to to stop this fate for all of 

731
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,520
humanity, because that's what 
she believes is happening. 

732
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,240
And she might be right or close 
to right. 

733
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,080
And yeah, so Melisandre might be
kind of like her new identity, 

734
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,400
the the the being that emerged 
like a phoenix almost from from 

735
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,520
slavery and and her humble 
origins to become this powerful 

736
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,440
priestess of her lore that might
be instrumental in saving the 

737
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,000
world. 
And that's probably how she sees

738
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,320
herself. 
And maybe she doesn't have a 

739
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,000
whole lot of ego in it. 
But still, this is at some 

740
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,720
point, this is what would have 
been developing in her through 

741
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,200
her early years. 
This this slow realization that 

742
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,960
this is how the world is, that 
there's a Great War going to 

743
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,040
happen. 
And that slowly but surely she's

744
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,640
realizing that maybe she's a 
little more equipped than most 

745
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,440
of her peers to do a lot of the 
things that need to be done. 

746
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,280
Flame reading, she apparently 
was really, really good at. 

747
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,800
Also, this kind of reads like a 
little bit of just like standard

748
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,520
sort of blocking out trauma, 
doesn't it, Sean? 

749
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,400
Like the whole, the distant 
memories that she doesn't really

750
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,120
want to face. 
And then like, because later she

751
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,840
thinks dreams are the whispering
of the other who would drag us 

752
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,080
all into eternal night. 
And she doesn't like sleeping, 

753
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,160
doesn't like dreaming. 
This is she's she's this 

754
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,040
negative view of dreaming. 
That's kind of like, I don't 

755
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,200
think dreams are really that 
bad. 

756
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,200
You know, they're bad for you 
because you have horrible 

757
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,920
memories. 
But like, in general, I don't 

758
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,280
think dreams are just like the 
whisperings of the great other. 

759
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,840
That seems like a bit far. 
Seems like very personal to her,

760
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:53,320
right? 
Is that? 

761
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:54,560
Is that kind of how you read 
that too? 

762
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,920
Yes, and and in another layer to
it, if she's older, she would 

763
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,480
have been a witness to more 
tragedies, right? 

764
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,080
She would have seen friends and 
companions die of old age or 

765
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,000
battle. 
You know, she's been in hell, 

766
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,160
researched and traveled and 
she's been and you know, I can 

767
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,040
imagine some other kind of dark 
things that were Lord priest of 

768
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,520
her Lord might do. 
Like, you know, maybe every 

769
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,800
person isn't pure evil, but 
every person isn't pure good 

770
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,240
either. 
And she's probably seen some of 

771
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:23,320
that had some some bad things 
happened to her, she would have 

772
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,960
more stuff to repress, you know,
and remember too, she she did 

773
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,120
say that she doesn't have time 
for sleep. 

774
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,760
And it might be there's a song. 
I don't have time for the pain. 

775
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,840
I think that's the name of the 
song. 

776
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,600
You know, like I've got other 
things to worry about. 

777
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,640
I like, even if she is time to 
repress memories and you know, 

778
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,720
maybe that's problematic, but 
she's worried about saving 

779
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,360
humanity. 
Like, look, my personal dramas 

780
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,280
don't matter right now. 
I can see how she there's 

781
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,120
multiple reasons for her to not 
want to sleep. 

782
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,560
No sleep till the long night. 
Yeah, as just like the Beastie 

783
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Boys wrote it. 
Yeah. 

784
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,400
So this is a super interesting 
thing to think about. 

785
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,280
Like how her, she she has to 
somehow reconcile this like this

786
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,920
awful trauma with this was the 
path I belong on. 

787
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,560
I came to relore. 
I'm doing the things we're 

788
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:04,720
supposed to do to save the 
world. 

789
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,760
But how do you reconcile like 
her being enslaved and 

790
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,560
traumatized as a child as part 
of that journey? 

791
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,560
It's like, oh, that was all a 
necessary part of my path. 

792
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,320
Like maybe it is because someone
who's been enslaved would is 

793
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,000
perhaps better equipped to teach
the world or lead the world out 

794
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,440
of that kind of outcome for 
other people. 

795
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,800
On the other hand, yeah, it it 
also changes her view of normal 

796
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,560
things like dreams, which are 
they're not so bad now. 

797
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,600
A banero high priest of the Red 
Temple of the Lantis. 

798
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,480
Again, this guy keeps coming up 
because he's one of our few 

799
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,160
points of comparison. 
He was also a slave child bought

800
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,560
by the temple. 
We don't know that for sure 

801
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,360
about Macoro, Just a safe 
assumption given how that seems 

802
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,440
to be the norm. 
And Jorah tells Tyrion that the 

803
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,120
Red Temple quote buys them as 
children and makes them priests 

804
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,960
or temple prostitutes or 
warriors. 

805
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,520
So apparently based on their 
skill set and some of them 

806
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,120
probably cross train. 
Like given Melisandre's ability 

807
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,240
to seduce Stannis, it's quite 
possible she had some of this 

808
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:02,280
sex work training as part of her
upbringing. 

809
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,440
We have no certainty on that 
whatsoever. 

810
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,880
It's just seems like a valid. 
Possibility, but clearly she 

811
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,560
moved beyond that because of her
ability and magical meanings, 

812
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,960
magical doings, which was like, 
well, let's have you focus on 

813
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,760
reading the flames instead of 
earning money for the temple 

814
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,480
through sex work. 
You know, that might be may have

815
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,680
been a part of her journey in 
her early years. 

816
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,320
And you know much in a way that 
some of the men in the 

817
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,160
priesthood might excel better if
they're all so big and strong, 

818
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,080
they're smart or they've got 
some mystical ability and also 

819
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,640
they're big and strong. 
If she's attractive and 

820
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,720
seductive that that's like her 
her bonus in addition to be able

821
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:39,840
to read in the flames. 
True. 

822
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,480
I was going to say too, I think 
it's possible that she is older,

823
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,040
maybe even way older than 
Venero. 

824
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,760
He maybe is in a higher 
position, but I can imagine 

825
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Melisandre being passed over for
higher positions because she's a

826
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,000
woman, you know? 
That's possible. 

827
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,000
Yeah. 
That seems very possible. 

828
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,800
Absolutely. 
Now, of course it makes a lot of

829
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,440
sense that they buy them the the
as children because they're 

830
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,880
susceptible to being taught like
you. 

831
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,600
Their upbringing is what you 
give them. 

832
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:04,400
And all children are very 
susceptible to being taught and 

833
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,360
educated. 
And so you lock them in for life

834
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,560
if you get them young, right. 
And that's that's the idea. 

835
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,360
And now one thing though, here's
a little curveball. 

836
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,920
Melisandre was not initially 
purchased by the Red Temple in 

837
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,240
Ash Eye. 
We can be very sure of that 

838
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,800
thanks to one of the last things
we get from her singular POV 

839
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,400
chapter as she's convincing John
to allow Mance Ryder, who is 

840
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,280
glamoured to look like Rattle 
shirt to go rescue Aria. 

841
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,040
We have this quote. 
She made it sound a simple 

842
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,440
thing, and easy. 
They need never know how 

843
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,960
difficult it had been, or how 
much it had cost her. 

844
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,120
That was a lesson Melisandre had
learned long before a shy The 

845
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,560
more effortless the sorcery 
appears, the more men fear the 

846
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,080
sorcerer. 
Now of course it's not actually 

847
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,400
Arya that she's going to be 
Alice Karstark and Mance doesn't

848
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,640
find her anyway. 
But that's not the point here. 

849
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:58,800
We know she misinterprets 
sometimes. 

850
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,120
There's plenty examples of that.
There's more examples of her 

851
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,600
being right, and there's a lot 
of examples of her being kind of

852
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,800
close, like in the ballpark. 
This is a good example of that. 

853
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,440
She's sort of right. 
The point is, though, that 

854
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,000
phrase a lesson Melisandre 
learned long before a shy. 

855
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,520
What is she learning all these 
things as a child still? 

856
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,080
I don't think so. 
So she spent significant amount 

857
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,400
of time at a different red 
temple and then at some point 

858
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,800
moved on to a shy. 
Maybe she was sent there. 

859
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,720
Maybe she went there of her own 
volition, Who knows? 

860
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,560
And it makes a lot of sense for 
a lot of reasons. 

861
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,080
One well, she's been learning 
about sorcery since long before 

862
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,240
she went to Ash Eye, as it says.
Thus, Ash Eye is a reasonable 

863
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:39,480
place to go to learn more 
sorcery. 

864
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,960
It's such a sorcerous place, 
like not only does it have 

865
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,440
connections to Relore and the 
ancient prophecy of Azora High, 

866
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,840
which you'd think that lots of 
Red Priests would want to delve 

867
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,320
more into that. 
But yeah, there's just more 

868
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,920
sorcery there. 
And there's the notion that 

869
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,360
there's no children in Ash Eye. 
So that's another thing we're 

870
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,440
told, which may be exaggerated, 
but it would fit with this, that

871
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,040
Melisandre wasn't there as a 
child. 

872
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,720
So probably she was bought by 
one of the other Red Temples, 

873
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:08,200
probably one of the ones far to 
the east. 

874
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,320
Like I doubt she was bought by 
the Red Temple in in Norvos 

875
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,520
like, you know, or, or Mir like 
Thoros was and went all the way 

876
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,680
to Ash Eye. 
That's so far, but maybe, maybe 

877
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,320
Volantis, maybe something and 
maybe even in ET, I'm not even 

878
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,640
positive they have relore 
worshippers in ET, but that 

879
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,240
would fit. 
Or or Morac, a great Morac is 

880
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,160
the island, the large island 
South of Karth that is pretty 

881
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,200
much never mentioned. 
But lots of people live there, 

882
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,600
you know, So it fits, yeah. 
I wanted to say something. 

883
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,120
There was a subtle thing, you 
know, we talked one time about 

884
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,240
like, how powerful she must be 
because she said that she was 

885
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,880
more, she was better at reading 
the flames than anyone in her 

886
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,080
own. 
Order, she said. 

887
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:50,680
Order. 
Yeah. 

888
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,480
Order, right? 
But yeah, in fact, I've got the 

889
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,280
quote here because she said 
there was no one even in her 

890
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,600
order, who had the skills that 
seen secrets da da da, da, which

891
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,160
kind of implies her order is 
extra good at it, or they're 

892
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,000
extra trained or extra old. 
Some reason you might expect 

893
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,040
people from her order to be 
good, but even in her order, she

894
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,440
was the best. 
That's a good catch. 

895
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,320
Like what does her order mean? 
We don't get a title for that 

896
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,640
order, but. 
It makes me wonder though, maybe

897
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,320
since she was is excelling in 
this one thing, they sent her 

898
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,120
there because they specialize it
in it, and then even in that one

899
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,920
she is or became the best. 
I very much agree with that. 

900
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,040
I think it's a very strong 
theory. 

901
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,360
Now, here's another thing you 
can think about. 

902
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,520
Like she's introduced as 
Melisandre of a Shai. 

903
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,000
So that's why people think she's
from a Shai. 

904
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,880
But no one's from a Shai, right?
No one was born there. 

905
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,680
If you don't have children 
there, then you can't really be 

906
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,920
born there. 
You can establish your identity 

907
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,400
there. 
You can live there so long that 

908
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,360
that's kind of what you 
associate with, but no one's 

909
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,160
born there as far as we know and
anymore. 

910
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:49,000
How long since anyone's been 
born there? 

911
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:51,920
Yeah, that's a good question. 
Yeah, maybe, maybe 1000. 

912
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,520
Yeah, maybe, maybe Melisandre 
3000 years ago. 

913
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,240
I don't know. 
But yeah, who knows? 

914
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,720
But that's a good point, Sean, 
that even when people aren't 

915
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:02,760
from there now, they might have 
been from there when she was a 

916
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,400
little girl. 
Or Aziz's theory here might be 

917
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,520
true, which I actually like. 
A lie I was about to tell you. 

918
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:12,120
So she likely lived in Ash Eye a
long time, right? 

919
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:17,680
Because it does seem to be not 
only where she identifies as 

920
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,880
being from, even though she 
wasn't born there probably, but 

921
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,000
she has a Jade C accent. 
We're told. 

922
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,160
I don't know what Jade C accent 
means, but it's like a 

923
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:25,880
Mediterranean accent. 
It's like one of the things 

924
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,800
where if you live in that area, 
you'd be a lot more specific. 

925
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,520
No one who lives in the Jade C 
would call it a Jade C accent. 

926
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,960
It's like no one who lives in 
Jersey calls it a Jersey accent.

927
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,880
There's like probably 8 
different Jersey accent, like a 

928
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,240
Southern people say Southern 
accent, but like I live in the 

929
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:40,400
South. 
There's a lot like, what does 

930
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,360
that mean? 
There's 1012 different Southern 

931
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,240
accents. 
Easy, you know, so So to a 

932
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:48,600
westerner, she sounds like she 
has the accent of the Jade C, 

933
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,120
but that doesn't actually help 
us a whole lot. 

934
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:55,360
That's the accent that Mazaria 
was doing in House of the 

935
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,000
Dragon. 
That's the generic Jade C 

936
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,200
accent. 
That's a good point. 

937
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:04,880
ET is Jade C, so that that does 
work, yeah. 

938
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,200
So maybe her actual country of 
origin, the one she was born in,

939
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,320
is also in the Jade C Maybe she 
is actually from that region. 

940
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,000
Again, I mentioned Great Morak, 
that giant island that's South 

941
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,440
of of Carth, that that's a 
strong candidate for where she 

942
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,320
was born. 
She could be Lengy, she could be

943
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,360
of of have languish descent. 
This is what I really like 

944
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,280
because she is tall and willowy 
and that's what the Lengy are 

945
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,120
known to be. 
Yeah, I just think that would be

946
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,320
a cool detail if she was 
actually from there. 

947
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,760
If her glamour ever wears off 
and we see her what she really 

948
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,880
looks like, this kind of stuff 
might come out. 

949
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,040
We might actually get it. 
It might. 

950
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,840
It's not initially important, 
but it's something a lot of us 

951
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,400
would would love to know, you 
know, So maybe George will give 

952
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,680
us that. 
So we get a little hint as as to

953
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,480
what the first year relore slave
children start with in their 

954
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,480
fiery and shadowy education here
with our entry to the Red 

955
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,000
Priestess section of our episode
quote. 

956
00:46:55,400 --> 00:47:01,160
It was never truly dark in 
Melisandre's chambers. 3 tallow 

957
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,520
candles burned upon her window 
sill to keep the terrors of the 

958
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,080
night at Bay. 
Four more flickered beside her 

959
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,880
bed, 2 to either side. 
In the hearth. 

960
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,000
A fire was kept burning day and 
night. 

961
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,120
The first lesson those who would
serve her had to learn was that 

962
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,480
the fire must never, ever be 
allowed to go out. 

963
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,000
First lesson is a key phrase 
here. 

964
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,280
It's not magical. 
We don't have to do anything 

965
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,920
magical to keep a fire going. 
I mean, you can, but it's not 

966
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,960
required. 
Like just get some wood, you 

967
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,640
know, throw some more wood on 
the fire. 

968
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,320
But we all know the night, the, 
the red priests are big about 

969
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:40,880
their night fires. 
They do them, they, they 

970
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,240
celebrate the dawn every 
morning. 

971
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,600
Yay, Velour has given us another
day. 

972
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,960
And at night they light the 
night fires to get through the 

973
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,920
night, sort of as a a ritual, 
like a micro long night thing 

974
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,040
every day, every day as a gift 
from relor. 

975
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,360
And this is a big deal. 
They so like a young acolyte, 

976
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,120
just keep that fire going, add 
more wood to it. 

977
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,680
Maybe a 20-30 fifty years from 
now you have some supernatural 

978
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,880
means of keeping a fire going. 
But it's it's the it's the 

979
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,320
ritual before the magic. 
You know, you learn the basics. 

980
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,880
Nina points out a great parallel
to the real world here. 

981
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,200
George is probably borrowing 
some of this from the Vestal 

982
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,880
Virgins of ancient Rome, who 
were responsible for keeping the

983
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,120
sacred fire of Vista eternally 
lit. 

984
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,360
And they would get severe 
punishments if they failed to do

985
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,920
that. 
So we do have other red priests 

986
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,480
in the story that help us 
corroborate some things, even 

987
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:28,360
though there aren't a lot of 
them. 

988
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,920
None of them are Povs and we've 
only got the one Melisandre POV 

989
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:38,280
so we we sometimes have are are 
digging into uncertainty to to 

990
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,480
find to figure things out. 
But other things seem pretty 

991
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,320
well established. 
Like some of their beliefs and 

992
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,160
certain prophecies they believe 
in. 

993
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,920
But if she's raised in ash eye 
it's different than being raised

994
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,000
in Volantis or mirror. 
Like these are different cities.

995
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,000
They have vastly different 
cultures. 

996
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,120
Just compare any religion in in 
a very different place. 

997
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,400
Like compare, I don't know, 
Christianity and we'll keep 

998
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,640
using my part of the country and
the American South to 

999
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,200
Christianity of of Europe even 
now or Christianity of Europe 

1000
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,000
300 years ago or yeah, just very
different. 

1001
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,240
I mean, there's so many 
different versions of 

1002
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:17,520
Christianity. 
You get the point there. 

1003
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,080
So these versions aren't 
necessarily categorized and 

1004
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,040
annotated in A Song of Ice and 
Fire, but they surely exist. 

1005
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,840
There is surely differences 
between the red priests of a shy

1006
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,840
and the red priest of Volantis. 
Maybe just minor cultural 

1007
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,640
differences, but maybe major 
ones, like the kind of things 

1008
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,160
that would, I don't know, cause 
a schism between popes. 

1009
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,720
And like that kind of thing has 
happened in the real world where

1010
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:41,000
the, the two popes kind of, it's
more of a political thing, but 

1011
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,800
it's rooted around differences 
in interpretations of the 

1012
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,520
scripture in a lot of, in a lot 
of cases. 

1013
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,960
Or one label side labels the 
other as blasphemers. 

1014
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,760
You know, no, you're the 
blasphemer. 

1015
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,280
No, you're the blasphemer. 
I don't know if I've read 

1016
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,640
priests have ever had that kind 
of schism before, but. 

1017
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,160
Quite possible. 
And and candles and the other 

1018
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,160
kind. 
It's like. 

1019
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,440
Beeswax tallow. 
Beeswax tallow. 

1020
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,800
Candle schisms, I guess. 
I don't know. 

1021
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,200
I could see that sort of thing 
going on to get really upset 

1022
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,880
about the type of candles. 
So I I think this is fairly 

1023
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,320
obvious that these differences 
exist. 

1024
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,600
We just don't have the details 
as to what those differences 

1025
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,120
really are. 
George confirms this very 

1026
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,440
distinctly without really 
elaborating. 

1027
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,680
At one point, before A Storm of 
Before a Storm of Swords was 

1028
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,960
published, someone asked him, do
Thoros and Melisandre worship 

1029
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,600
the same God? 
And George said yes and no. 

1030
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:39,400
There you go. 
Right. 

1031
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,760
That's not an answer, but it is 
an answer. 

1032
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,080
It's like, yeah, they are 
seeing, they're interpreting a 

1033
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,280
lot of things differently, but 
they both it's it's they both 

1034
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,000
call him Rellore, and it's the 
God of flame and shadow. 

1035
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,040
It's still the Lord of light. 
But wow, do they see that 

1036
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,720
differently. 
You know, potentially to confuse

1037
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:57,720
the issue even farther, does 
Thoros really worship that God? 

1038
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,320
Like is he answering the 
question about God or the 

1039
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:01,760
question about worship, you 
know? 

1040
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,840
Good question. 
Yeah, Nina, as this may have 

1041
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,160
been a natural development for 
rellorism, You know, there's the

1042
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,600
wide world happens and religion 
spread to different places and 

1043
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,600
it's going to take hold in 
different ways and each culture 

1044
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:20,280
that it takes hold in. 
And that means, like to convert 

1045
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,000
a person with a certain 
upbringing, you need to use 

1046
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,280
certain methods. 
To convert a person from a 

1047
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,440
different country, you might use
different methods because you're

1048
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,840
teaching them different, you're 
unlearning them of different. 

1049
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,320
Like how Melisandre preaches to 
free folk is probably different 

1050
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,920
than how she preaches to the 
Kingsman, right? 

1051
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,280
Or 'cause you're trying to 
convert them from worshippers of

1052
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,640
the Seven instead of convert 
them from worshippers of the Old

1053
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,240
Gods. 
It's a different starting point 

1054
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,360
that you're trying to bring them
in from, so it makes sense that 

1055
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:47,760
you would maybe use different 
methods. 

1056
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:53,840
She even relented to not going 
with Stannis because she knew 

1057
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,040
that her presence would upset 
the worshippers of the old God 

1058
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,920
like that. 
She's like, it's gonna in the 

1059
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,920
big picture at this moment, it's
gonna hurt the cause. 

1060
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,840
So I I just won't even go right 
so. 

1061
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,440
Well, I think she thought that 
was a mistake, but it either 

1062
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,400
way, she wasn't there and it had
a big effect. 

1063
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,960
Yeah. 
But but if she had gone, she 

1064
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,400
probably would have treated them
differently than Solis or 

1065
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,480
whatever. 
But and maybe this isn't even 

1066
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,680
the time for that treatment. 
But she she acknowledges. 

1067
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,400
Yeah. 
And and you know, The thing is 

1068
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,040
it like in a real world, you 
know, especially if you go back 

1069
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,600
100 or whatever years, there 
were religions that weren't 

1070
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,120
aware of the variations of their
own religion, right? 

1071
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,720
You can just imagine like some 
small town in Maine and some 

1072
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:41,040
small town in Alabama started 
off with preachers from England,

1073
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,360
But what they started preaching 
in their churches over 100 years

1074
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:45,840
ahead of all, then it's 
something different. 

1075
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,840
And then eventually we called 
it, you know, Baptist or all 

1076
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,800
these other things. 
There was one sect of Christians

1077
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:57,240
that a missionary had gone down 
the Nile deep into the Congo and

1078
00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:00,720
established a mission there, 
like, I don't know, like 200 AD.

1079
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,880
And no one knew about it until 
like the 1970s. 

1080
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,920
And they found these people. 
And there were obviously a lot 

1081
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,400
of beliefs that were in line 
with Christianity. 

1082
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,840
And a lot there were like very 
varied and there was some 

1083
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,600
difference. 
Their Bible had some different 

1084
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,400
scriptures in it and stuff like 
that, and no one even knew they 

1085
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,560
existed. 
Does that make sense? 

1086
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,960
So like certainly there's going 
to be some worshipping over 

1087
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,040
allure this in different in 
different parts of the world, 

1088
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,160
different people's 
interpretation, time passing, 

1089
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,880
all that stuff, assuming there 
is even just one God in the 1st.

1090
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,440
Place, right? 
A good example Nina gives us 

1091
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,440
here is that in Volantis all the
Red Temple slaves, well all the 

1092
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,440
slaves in the whole city, not 
just the Red Temple ones, get 

1093
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,280
face tattoos. 
It kind of marks them as slaves 

1094
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,360
and what their job is. 
Macoro has them, Banero has 

1095
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,880
them, all the five fiery fingers
have them. 

1096
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,560
Melisandre might have tattoos, 
we just don't know. 

1097
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,200
But she probably doesn't. 
She probably doesn't because in 

1098
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:59,400
Ash Eye, tattoos are extremely 
normal for regular people. 

1099
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,040
The shadow men, the people of 
Ash Eye, cover their body in 

1100
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,520
tattoos. 
So why would they mark slaves 

1101
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:04,600
that way? 
It's like, well, mark in the 

1102
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:05,760
same way. 
It doesn't, it doesn't fit. 

1103
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,680
So that it's sort of doesn't 
work there to do that. 

1104
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,600
And of course, the Mirish Temple
doesn't seem to put tattoos on 

1105
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,160
their slaves. 
Thoris isn't tattooed. 

1106
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,200
So yeah. 
So this is just small examples 

1107
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,640
that imply much greater cultural
differences that we're just not 

1108
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,600
aware of. 
And it and perhaps more on to 

1109
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,440
the point too, what sort of 
hierarchy exists between the 

1110
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,240
different red temples? 
Howden half Maester refers to 

1111
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:30,360
Banero as the first servant of 
the Lord of light in the world 

1112
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,800
or just at the temple of Lantus,
which is the biggest temple in 

1113
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,400
the red red temple of the world.
So like their hierarchy is still

1114
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,120
a little hazy to us. 
Like how does do the Red Temple 

1115
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,960
and Volantis interact with the 
Red Temple and a shy? 

1116
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,760
Do they have, does Venero have 
like primacy over them? 

1117
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,400
Or are they does they had to see
an equivalent first servant over

1118
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,320
there? 
You know, and these are just 

1119
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,840
things that we don't know yet. 
And it's very wide open, but 

1120
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,640
surely these these hierarchies, 
these systems exist to some 

1121
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,840
degree, Whether they're well 
defined or not, we don't know, 

1122
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:05,640
but they surely exist. 
So those four, those red 

1123
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,720
priests, are really the only 
ones we have any info on. 

1124
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:09,200
And as far as we know, they 
don't know her. 

1125
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:13,200
We don't know if Makoro, Thoros,
or Benero have ever heard of 

1126
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,200
Melisandre. 
Decent chance they have. 

1127
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,320
Maybe Thoros less so before 
Westeros, but once he's since 

1128
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,560
he's been in Westeros and she 
has too, he's probably heard of 

1129
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,400
her, but before that he probably
hadn't, especially because the 

1130
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,680
sheer distance like Ash Eye 
Premier, we're talking like an 8

1131
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,320
month journey by ship because 
it's roughly a year from 

1132
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,240
Westeros. 
So from Premier it's probably 

1133
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:35,720
pretty close to the same, a 
little bit less maybe as much as

1134
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:41,160
like 10 months or something. 
So yeah, pretty wild early years

1135
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:44,760
as any any kind of any acolyte 
or novice to a religion, 

1136
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,000
especially one that maybe 
expects you to live longer than 

1137
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,400
normal human span of time. 
We'd probably have a lot of 

1138
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,680
tedium, like a lot of studying 
texts, basic indoctrination and 

1139
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,160
just chores, you know, keeping 
the fires lit, sweeping. 

1140
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,720
I I imagine that's what a lot of
the kids do, just basic 

1141
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,880
devotional tasks that they just 
use them as your cheap labor for

1142
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,480
the most simplest things. 
Like, like, I mean, they are 

1143
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,560
slave children after all. 
So this is actually better than 

1144
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,760
what they had to get if they 
were taken as slaves to some 

1145
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,600
other household, most in most 
cases, which had a very, very 

1146
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,880
low bar for that. 
And they're orphans. 

1147
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,480
So they they really want to 
belong somewhere because they 

1148
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:19,720
don't have a place in this 
world. 

1149
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:24,520
They're very susceptible to 
indoctrination, to being given a

1150
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,280
place to be and just some some 
place to belong. 

1151
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,120
And they're skilled at that. 
This is an organization, 

1152
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,280
organization that's very good 
and impressing people with 

1153
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,800
grandeur. 
They're ancient, they're 

1154
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,880
empowered with magic. 
They're boosted further by their

1155
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,760
tricks. 
All the things Melisandre knows 

1156
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,040
how to do. 
I have no reason to assume she's

1157
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,480
the only one that knows how to 
do those things. 

1158
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,960
None at all. 
I feel like it's probably very 

1159
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:46,240
common. 
You want to impress people and 

1160
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:48,120
press the rubes? 
Get them to buy into your 

1161
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,960
religion. 
It's the story as old as time. 

1162
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,960
She might know how to do more 
different things like that, 

1163
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,320
right? 
She's been older. 

1164
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,800
If she's that much older and has
done it that much longer and 

1165
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,120
maybe traveled to different 
temples and made a point of it, 

1166
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,880
every priest might not have the 
same dedication and ambition 

1167
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,160
that she does. 
So she might be better at 

1168
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,680
certain things and no more 
different things, but certainly 

1169
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,400
not the only one that knows any 
of these. 

1170
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:11,680
Right. 
Yeah, totally agree. 

1171
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:12,480
Well put. 
Well put. 

1172
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,920
Like in fact, Thoreau's like 
lighting is sort of even if 

1173
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,240
there's some pure magic, there's
probably some trick to it. 

1174
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,680
Also he probably has some 
special oil or something. 

1175
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,360
It makes it a bigger flame or 
last longer. 

1176
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,840
Well, at first it was wildfire, 
but then as magic increases, 

1177
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,320
it's like, well, he doesn't have
wildfire out in the woods like 

1178
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:31,560
the brotherhood. 
He's living in a cave. 

1179
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,840
Where is he getting wildfire? 
Like he's clearly, it's, it's 

1180
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,520
the, the rise of magic is kind 
of like Melisandre is like he's 

1181
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,360
enabled to do things he wasn't 
able to do before. 

1182
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,160
You just reminded me of 
something I wanted to point out 

1183
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,800
earlier. 
I wonder if this is at least a 

1184
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,480
piece of what's going on when 
she thinks that her powers are 

1185
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,000
more are stronger at the wall. 
I wonder if it's also at least 

1186
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,360
partly that her powers are 
stronger at this moment in time,

1187
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,840
that if she was at some other 
place in the world, her powers 

1188
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,520
would still be stronger. 
Maybe it's amplified by the wall

1189
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,640
too, but I wonder if it's she. 
She said something like they're 

1190
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,640
more powerful here than even in 
a Shy, but I wonder if really 

1191
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,840
they're more powerful here than 
even two years ago. 

1192
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,480
Maybe it could be both. 
Yeah, I suspect it's the place 

1193
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,640
matters, but you could be right 
that there's multiple factors in

1194
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,800
play. 
So going back to just like the 

1195
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:16,960
early days of the temple, we get
a sort of an example of this, 

1196
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,320
which is Aria being a novice at 
the temple, black and white or 

1197
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:21,840
House of black and white. 
And that's kind of what they do.

1198
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,480
Like she's just like pulling 
coins out of the out of the 

1199
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,480
fountain, dressing up bodies, 
just basic chores until they 

1200
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,960
slowly bring her into the 
greater mysteries of things. 

1201
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,720
I gotta guess it's pretty 
similar for the Red Temple. 

1202
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,280
And the ones who who show 
natural aptitude for certain 

1203
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,760
things would be singled out and 
promoted faster, kind of like 

1204
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,480
Aria was. 
She was very talented, a lot of 

1205
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,520
these things and and maybe 
there's more going on there than

1206
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,760
just that, but Melisandre was 
probably ahead of the game, 

1207
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,640
ahead of the curve, talented, 
etcetera. 

1208
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,720
I doubt this came later. 
But then of course, you, you 

1209
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,800
learn basic scripture and and 
dogma, right? 

1210
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,840
All the basics of her lore, 
flame and shadow and whatever 

1211
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,040
that entails. 
Why shadows are actually 

1212
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,280
creatures of light. 
You know, all their dogma, like 

1213
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,680
I said, just all the, all the 
clever phrasings and 

1214
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,120
philosophies they've put to 
words, things that you can use 

1215
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,640
to win arguments or to impress 
people or to back people into a 

1216
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,280
narrative corner with your with 
your words, you know, kind of 

1217
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,200
things like that. 
And of course they'd learn about

1218
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,800
Azurai, right? 
That's part of their basic, you 

1219
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:28,240
know, legendarium Yandel Maestri
Andel said the legend of Azurai 

1220
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,680
spread W from tails kept in 
annals in Ash eye of the Long 

1221
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:33,840
night. 
So it's like Ash Eye is maybe 

1222
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,840
one of the only places, if not 
the only place in the world that

1223
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,120
actually has written records of 
what happened in the first long 

1224
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:41,960
night. 
So again, it makes so much sense

1225
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,480
that a red priest would go 
there. 

1226
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,200
It almost almost makes you 
wonder why more red priests 

1227
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,840
haven't gone there. 
And actually maybe a lot of them

1228
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,760
have and we just don't know it. 
And maybe just again, and 

1229
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,480
Melisandre's excelled or she's 
just a cut above or she just had

1230
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,120
a lot more bravery, a lot more 
faith, a lot more zeal, a lot 

1231
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,400
more certainty. 
That's a certainty that she had 

1232
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:58,560
more certainty. 
But why? 

1233
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,320
Well, we'll continue to get into
that. 

1234
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,800
Now recruiting, that's another 
thing that's got to be part of 

1235
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,800
her training how to bring more 
people into the faith. 

1236
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,640
That's something almost any 
faith will teach is how to. 

1237
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,240
Make more followers. 
We've already talked through 

1238
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,480
some of those with the basics of
how you indoctrinate the 

1239
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,440
children in the 1st place. 
Well, they would in turn learn 

1240
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,320
to indoctrinate others using 
those same tactics and same 

1241
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:21,320
methods and like how to have a 
strong presence, how to appear 

1242
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,000
powerful, how to show No Fear, 
how to project your voice. 

1243
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,120
Just like non magical things 
that could be enhanced by magic.

1244
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,280
But the basics of that are it's 
like teaching someone how to be 

1245
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,320
a good public speaker. 
You know, like, those are real 

1246
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,000
world things. 
Lots of real world preachers, 

1247
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,800
priests, reverends, ministers 
are very good at public 

1248
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,800
speaking, very good at it. 
And where was Melisandre? 

1249
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,120
They're very good at surrounding
themselves with the trappings of

1250
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,920
power yachts and suits. 
And rings. 

1251
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:56,200
And so I will see examples of of
this throughout the rest of the 

1252
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,960
episode of how Melisandre yes, 
yes, uses the trappings of power

1253
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:03,440
and other things like that. 
Another thing they would use or 

1254
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,440
do is just basic priestly 
functions that would make them 

1255
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,040
more acceptable into a wide 
variety of communities. 

1256
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,080
It's kind of surprising, yet not
surprising, that of all the 

1257
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:17,760
people to perform the marriage 
of Alice Karstark and Sigourne, 

1258
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,960
the Magnar of Fenn is Melisandre
knowing that the Wall seems all 

1259
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,200
that surprised or put off by 
because hey, she's a priestess. 

1260
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,160
Valid priestesses, priests. 
They do marriages. 

1261
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,520
That's just how it works. 
So run with that, but they would

1262
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,440
have expected probably to be 
married by a Septon or something

1263
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,360
like well, I don't know what 
Sigourney expected. 

1264
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:36,680
He's a Magnar of fan. 
I don't know. 

1265
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:38,720
No idea what what he was 
guessing. 

1266
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:40,840
It wasn't Melisandre. 
He wasn't expecting that. 

1267
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,560
So she knew what to say. 
She had all the right words. 

1268
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,880
She was very practiced when she 
did this ceremony. 

1269
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,520
Probably wasn't her first time, 
probably wasn't even her 20th 

1270
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,520
time. 
So another thing that she would 

1271
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,120
have learned in her basic days 
that not the most relevant story

1272
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:00,560
wise, but still it's a big on 
the list of important things or 

1273
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,600
or or lesser things that that 
she learned how to do in her 

1274
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,120
training at the Red Red Temple. 
Red tremble, I almost said. 

1275
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:08,200
She knows multiple languages 
too. 

1276
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,600
That's another thing that she 
would have learned either on her

1277
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,760
own or by the temple's teaching.
Very true. 

1278
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,720
Very true. 
All right, let's take a a quick 

1279
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,960
break, get back to it. 
We got a lot more about 

1280
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,120
Melisandre. 
We got more red priest action. 

1281
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,560
We have barely scratched the 
surface of her supernatural 

1282
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,840
training and how that will play 
out a little more. 

1283
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:29,080
So stick with us, my friends. 
We've got way more to come This 

1284
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:31,440
right here is what a box of 
magic mind looks like. 

1285
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,200
Isn't this nice 15 pack Look at 
that. 

1286
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,200
It's lovely. 
It's like a it's like an ammo 

1287
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,920
belt, an ammo belt of mental 
performance. 

1288
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,560
I love these little guys, little
green dudes, little shots very 

1289
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,360
powerful. 
It says sharper mind, lower 

1290
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,000
stress, calm energy. 
I'll batch for that. 

1291
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:49,400
I will definitely batch for 
that. 

1292
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,480
You all have heard me talking 
about this stuff for a while now

1293
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,880
and I've, I've, I love to talk 
about how the long term effect 

1294
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,960
it's had and individual effects.
I mean, maybe trying to round up

1295
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,400
a few of those things and, and 
kind of just recap what some of 

1296
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,720
those things are. 
There's the routine that I love 

1297
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,760
getting and establishing an 
easy, simple habit helps me 

1298
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,160
establish bigger, more important
habits in my life. 

1299
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,320
Start small, go bigger. 
Reduction of coffee drinking for

1300
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:19,040
me, improved concentration and 
memory, which is a direct effect

1301
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,280
of Bakari money, Bakali money 
area. 

1302
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,680
I've forgotten the scientific 
name for this herb that's very 

1303
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,360
heavily studied, and those are 
probably the big three for me, 

1304
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,360
but there's more. 
What about Sean? 

1305
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:31,680
Do you have any anything to add 
to that? 

1306
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,840
I was gonna say that I have a, 
you know, usually I'm drinking 

1307
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,800
on a stream, but like I said, I 
have my, my Melisandre red drink

1308
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:42,480
today, but I, I still drank it 
this morning and I, I have said 

1309
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,520
in the past, I found it helped 
me when I was working out. 

1310
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,760
I feel like I didn't get as 
tired as much when I was running

1311
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,120
or going to the gym. 
I've gotten more accustomed to 

1312
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,600
the flavor. 
At first I was mixing it with a 

1313
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,440
naked drink or a sparkling ice 
or some other thing to give it a

1314
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,120
little more sweetness or 
whatever. 

1315
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:01,600
But I, I don't know if the taste
has changed the formula or if 

1316
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,720
I've just got more used to it, 
but I can now drink it. 

1317
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,120
Like before it was like, oh, I 
thought it was kind of too 

1318
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:07,800
bitter. 
But now I'm like, ah, it tastes 

1319
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,160
OK. 
I can just drink it like a shot.

1320
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,040
It's OK. 
It's funny you say that, Sean, 

1321
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,720
because I add magic mind to 
drinks to make them taste 

1322
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,200
better. 
So I go like the opposite way. 

1323
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:21,040
And then I find that it, it 
gives like kind of a, a, a depth

1324
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:25,120
of dimension to my drinks, you 
know, just add adds more flavor 

1325
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,880
to it. 
It's more nuanced. 

1326
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:27,880
I don't know if that makes 
sense. 

1327
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,120
It does in terms of the actual 
effects of it. 

1328
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,240
I find like I, I love drinking 
it everyday period. 

1329
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:39,480
But when days when I partied a 
little too hard the night before

1330
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,880
or I stayed up too late working 
all night because I pull a lot 

1331
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,960
of all nighters, you know, but 
regardless, I went too hard the 

1332
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:50,080
night before. 
Nothing makes me feel more just 

1333
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:54,240
back to normalcy, back to 
myself, more rejuvenated, more 

1334
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:58,520
refreshed than when I like pour 
my drink with my magic mind. 

1335
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,440
And I do like a little bit of a 
juice or whatever. 

1336
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,520
And I pour that drink and I 
drink and I'm like, I feel so 

1337
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,000
much better. 
That's that's my testimony. 

1338
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,640
Right on. 
I like a little bitterness. 

1339
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,240
I like the the the sharpness of 
it. 

1340
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:10,880
I do. 
I drink it straight and because 

1341
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,240
I like lemon and and coffee and 
things like that. 

1342
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:14,360
So it kind of works for me that 
way. 

1343
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,840
But everyone can do their own 
figure out what works best for 

1344
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,600
you. 
Start off by ordering and going 

1345
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:25,600
to magicmind.com/VIP how 4040% 
off one time purchases and 

1346
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,560
subscriptions. 
That's a substantial discount. 

1347
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:29,800
You can find out if it works for
you. 

1348
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,760
Get establish that routine and 
let us know how it works out for

1349
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,360
you. 
Also, every Friday check us out 

1350
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,600
on Twitch. 
I play CK3 streams. 

1351
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,640
That's Crusader Kings three with
the song of ice and fire mod. 

1352
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,040
It's so well detailed. 
We're having so much fun with 

1353
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:43,880
that. 
My character is Lynn Corbrae, 

1354
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,480
not the Lynn Corbrae from A Song
of Ice and Fire, but this is 

1355
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,040
would have been an ancestor of 
his and we're living in the time

1356
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,920
of pre Robert's Rebellion. 
The great spring sickness never 

1357
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:55,160
happens to the Targaryen 
dynasty. 

1358
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,000
Worked out a lot differently and
we're hoping maybe that Dragons 

1359
01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,760
get brought into the world 
'cause that would make things 

1360
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,840
very interesting. 
But either way super fun. 

1361
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,760
Every Friday 6 eastern twitch.tv
history of Westeros. 

1362
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:10,160
Pyramidion says the the Lot 7 
flashback is a memory from the 

1363
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,400
skin she is wearing, just like 
the Arias flashback. 

1364
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,720
That's an interesting theory. 
I don't know if I agree, but I'd

1365
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:20,200
like the idea that it's a 
flashback from a person that's 

1366
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,240
not her, which is possible. 
It's it's established like you 

1367
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,960
said, Aria had flashbacks of a 
person that is not her. 

1368
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,080
It's that explicitly happened 
100%. 

1369
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:29,920
I'm not sure that's what 
happened here, but it's a valid 

1370
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:31,320
idea. 
At a certain point, what's the 

1371
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,840
difference If you're having 
those flashbacks, those 

1372
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,640
memories, it aren't those your 
memories too? 

1373
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,360
You know, like. 
You didn't experience them when 

1374
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:40,640
they were new, but you're still 
having them. 

1375
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,120
Yeah, you're. 
Still affected by them? 

1376
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,040
I don't know. 
Where did her Ruby come from? 

1377
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,160
Are there memories in the Ruby 
you know? 

1378
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:49,120
Interesting. 
That's an that's an entirely 

1379
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,360
possible memory to store there. 
That is a George R Martin thing.

1380
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:54,320
That's a great theory Sean, 
because I I hadn't thought of 

1381
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,440
that and we are going to talk 
about the Ruby separately, but I

1382
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,600
don't have this particular point
included to talk about. 

1383
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,080
George created the concept of 
Whisper Jewels in his sci-fi 

1384
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,400
setting, which are jewels that 
contain essence of memory. 

1385
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,680
There you go. 
That's very much what you just 

1386
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:10,920
suggested here. 
So you you just like a hit. 

1387
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:12,920
A hit on a George RR Martin 
invention without even. 

1388
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:18,680
Got that for me. 
Dom Tartaglia says that is a 

1389
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:20,680
good comparison to read 
vernacular Christianity as I 

1390
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,360
always read Melisandre as 
expired by Catharism, now 

1391
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,920
Catharism. 
The Cathars were a sect of 

1392
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,080
Christianity and I think in 
France in middle age early 

1393
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,120
Middle Ages. 
I forget when but yeah good call

1394
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:37,240
Dom Tartalia, appreciate that. 
Shout out folk wise on twitch 

1395
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:38,720
and YouTube. 
Guilty, Undertaker says. 

1396
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,800
I could see the Riverlanders who
follow relore seeing Barrick as 

1397
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,480
a kind of messianic figure or 
something associate followers 

1398
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,840
would have no reason to do. 
Yeah, that's true. 

1399
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,240
Why would associate people care 
about a Westerosi agent is, 

1400
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,880
well, that would still like, 
maybe honor and respect him as a

1401
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,560
servant of relore, like a 
special champion of relore. 

1402
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,680
But they wouldn't follow him, 
right? 

1403
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,520
Like not initially as much but 
maybe taking it as proof of his 

1404
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,600
power is like yes relore is 
great but what do we care about 

1405
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,720
Westeros? 
Yeah, I knew. 

1406
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:07,640
I mean, there's so much at play 
here. 

1407
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,720
I doubt this is where George is 
gone, but I can imagine a 

1408
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,840
scenario where a relore sect 
established itself in a 

1409
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,720
Riverlands that with Barrick 
being their their champion or 

1410
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,680
their God or their prophet or 
whatever, and they not even 

1411
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,640
knowing all the other trappings 
of relore. 

1412
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,279
Yeah, they never. 
Knew about it, Yeah. 

1413
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,479
And no one in the Temple of 
Atlantis knows anything about 

1414
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,080
Barrick either. 
And so, but it's still you could

1415
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,640
have this relore religion crop 
up, Yeah. 

1416
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,200
That's pretty interesting. 
I have a comment I want to put 

1417
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:38,880
in here that I don't think we're
going to get to the bottom of, 

1418
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,040
but it's just something I was 
like, it's just, it's not really

1419
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,000
what we're looking at here, But 
it, it really intrigued me one 

1420
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:51,760
time time when Mel is talking 
about the, the idea of how part 

1421
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,880
of the spell, part of the 
glamour is people's 

1422
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,240
expectations. 
And she's talking about she 

1423
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,479
wants Mance to wear the bone. 
She's worried that, you know, 

1424
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,040
the spell is not going to work 
as well, you know, and she she 

1425
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,399
names off some things she's 
like, you know, like a certain 

1426
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:09,399
suit of armor, a sword or, you 
know, a hood in your garment or 

1427
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,200
a bag of finger bones. 
What there's sort of an 

1428
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,600
implication there that she has 
or would disguise someone as 

1429
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,600
Davos. 
Is that is there any? 

1430
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,439
There are theories about that 
comment, but I've never seen one

1431
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:24,840
that I was like, oh, that's got 
to be it. 

1432
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,720
It's, it's a very peculiar 
remark. 

1433
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:29,960
I mean, she's aware of Davos's 
finger bones. 

1434
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:31,720
She certainly knew he wore that 
all the time. 

1435
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,640
Figured it was just set up for 
the future. 

1436
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:35,640
It might. 
Be that's where I'm at right 

1437
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:37,520
now. 
What, You know, I'm like, yeah, 

1438
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,200
it could be set up, but what? 
Yeah. 

1439
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,240
It was too much before this 
episode for me to investigate 

1440
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,520
every Davos chapter and wonder 
if that was really him, you 

1441
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,760
know? 
I have always, I guess, assumed 

1442
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:51,120
that at some point there would 
be a false Davos that they would

1443
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,800
use finger bones for that for. 
Maybe to convince Stannis of 

1444
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,400
something because Davos is well 
moved by Stannis. 

1445
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:01,200
Anyways, I just I figured it was
foreshadowing for something we 

1446
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,480
have not yet seen from a 
shadowbinder. 

1447
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:04,960
Foreshadowing for a 
Shadowbinder? 

1448
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,080
It's interesting too, because we
have seen Davos outside of his 

1449
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:12,200
own POV only in since POV. 
That's the only time I think we 

1450
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,240
ever see Davos from someone 
else's point of view. 

1451
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,240
It's always because he's the 
he's our insight into all those 

1452
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,800
things on that he's seeing like 
no one else is in those 

1453
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:21,880
chapters. 
Like Davos hasn't been at the 

1454
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,240
wall because he went off to go 
to Skagos. 

1455
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:26,200
So we haven't seen Davos 
through. 

1456
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:28,440
We've seen Melisandre think 
about Davos, but not in his 

1457
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:30,520
presence. 
Because in her one chapter, 

1458
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,680
Davos is, you know, she thinks 
Davos is dead or no, she no, she

1459
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,440
doesn't. 
She thinks she knows he's alive 

1460
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:39,000
because she keeps his son alive 
and specifically thinks of 

1461
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,320
treating him well anyway. 
But Stannis thinks Davos is is 

1462
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,760
is probably dead because of the 
the lost ships or whatever. 

1463
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,360
The ship crash. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1464
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,960
Anyway, so let's talk about more
about age and appearance and 

1465
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,080
further red priest training and 
powers. 

1466
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,120
Thoros doesn't seem old enough 
to even want to hide his 

1467
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,960
appearance. 
We don't know that he could 

1468
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,800
though, if he wanted to. 
I don't know that he has that 

1469
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:02,520
power. 
He may never have learned that. 

1470
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:06,720
Macoro and Benero, I don't think
they're hiding their hiding 

1471
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,520
their, the parents 'cause they 
look very shocking and they have

1472
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,600
the face tattoos, they have the 
same tattoos they were given 

1473
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:14,240
when they were younger. 
That doesn't mean they don't use

1474
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,600
glamours, but I don't think that
they're hiding their appearance.

1475
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:18,640
They're naturally, you know, 
whereas Melisandre almost 

1476
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,880
certainly is. 
And as I said before, Bonero and

1477
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,280
Melisandre both have very pale 
skin, which is kind of telling. 

1478
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,080
Meanwhile, Macoro's is like so 
black it looks like he's been 

1479
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,000
burned, not like the euphemism 
for, you know, black people. 

1480
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:34,680
No, like actual black, you know,
not brown, which is what people 

1481
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,600
usually say, right. 
So it's possible Melisandre is 

1482
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:41,640
several centuries old, if not 
maybe more like a blood ravenous

1483
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:43,440
age, like a century, century and
a half. 

1484
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,160
I wouldn't go beyond 4 
centuries. 

1485
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,680
To me, that's getting a bit kind
of like, I don't know, it just 

1486
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,480
feels wrong, but it could 
definitely be. 

1487
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:54,880
I'm my guess lands in the 1:50 
to 200 range, but I don't have a

1488
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,280
strong opinion on it. 
I'm curious what the rest of 

1489
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,160
y'all think. 
Weigh in on what you might think

1490
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,240
for Melisandre's age is, if 
you're feeling it. 

1491
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:03,360
Any any guesses, Sean or Shaya? 
Not more than two. 

1492
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:05,200
No, not more than two. 
So you're kind of in my range 

1493
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:05,760
then. 
OK, cool. 

1494
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:11,560
My thought is that once you get 
past somewhere around 150 ish, 

1495
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:16,040
probably even less than that, 
that it might as well be 34500 

1496
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,200
because I just don't think a 
human can naturally live that 

1497
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,240
long, right? 
And so once you get past that, 

1498
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,440
some new supernatural thing is 
taking over. 

1499
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,160
And when you add in things like 
she doesn't need food, right, 

1500
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,160
then I think, OK, easily could 
you be 3-4 hundred? 

1501
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:35,960
I I, I don't I think he's 
already dead or isn't a natural 

1502
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,200
natural human Or is there some 
other thing going on that 

1503
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,240
doesn't have the Kappa in life? 
Like she her cells aren't 

1504
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,320
degenerating and she doesn't 
need to absorb protein for 

1505
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,960
mitochondria or whatever. 
She's just a being that exists 

1506
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,400
and isn't growing older. 
Does that make sense? 

1507
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,360
Yeah, I always get hung up when 
it comes to long lived age. 

1508
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:59,120
I get hung up on the memory 
aspect of it on be able to 

1509
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,400
remember all of these things 
and, and have such a long life 

1510
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,800
and just how that functionally 
could work. 

1511
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:09,640
I felt that the show The Good 
Place actually delved into that 

1512
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,920
in an interesting way for me. 
Just like in terms like what can

1513
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:17,720
humans process like in terms of 
of a length of life, where do we

1514
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:19,240
start? 
Just like, where do our brains 

1515
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,440
just start like degenerating and
we just don't remember our early

1516
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:23,400
lives. 
You know what I mean? 

1517
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:29,360
So the supernatural maybe makes 
that excusable, but that is more

1518
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:33,000
reason why to me, it's more 
feasible, more possible for 

1519
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,640
someone to live 200 years and 
remember their life. 

1520
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,440
Whereas when you get to 405 
hundred, I'm like, I feel like 

1521
01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:41,080
they would be crazy. 
Like I feel like they would be 

1522
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,280
functionally insane, you know, 
in some ways. 

1523
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:47,000
Maybe is keep in mind. 
The other series that gets into 

1524
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,160
that at the Stormlight Archive a
bit where they show that these 

1525
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:53,200
long lived beings who, you know,
it kind of really messes with 

1526
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,880
your brain. 
Yeah, like the the greenseers 

1527
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:57,400
very slowly become part of the 
tree. 

1528
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,440
So at some part they're not, 
they're not human anymore. 

1529
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:01,160
I don't know when that line, you
draw that line. 

1530
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:02,400
And maybe it's a similar concept
here. 

1531
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:04,840
It's like at some point she's 
just not human anymore. 

1532
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:06,480
Don't know if she's reached that
point yet. 

1533
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:09,440
But not eating, not drinking, 
not eating, sleep. 

1534
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:11,960
You definitely can see how it's 
approaching that if it isn't 

1535
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:13,760
already there. 
And as far as her appearance, 

1536
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,800
yeah, like she's concealing what
she actually looks like. 

1537
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,320
She's probably concealing her 
age and other things, but it's 

1538
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,480
not that she's just hiding that.
She's still sculpting an 

1539
01:14:21,480 --> 01:14:23,240
entirely new look. 
It's like a double whammy. 

1540
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,440
She's a hiding her appearance 
and her look and making one 

1541
01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:29,360
that's very dramatic, that draws
the eye, that has a lot of power

1542
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:33,320
just in and of itself, which, as
we've seen from her inner 

1543
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:36,280
monologue, is something she very
much values and was probably 

1544
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,000
taught to value. 
You know, if you're just, you 

1545
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,760
walk in the room and you look 
like her and have that charisma 

1546
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,440
and that presence, that's going 
to win some followers for velour

1547
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:47,160
and and allow you to move up the
ladders of power. 

1548
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,960
And thus, when even more 
followers of velour, it's like, 

1549
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:53,200
yeah, she didn't show up in 
Westeros to start preaching to 

1550
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,960
the masses. 
She went right for a king and 

1551
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,520
was like, I'm going to convince 
this guy. 

1552
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,320
And then it all flows down from 
there. 

1553
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,600
He converts people. 
I don't do the conversion. 

1554
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:04,240
I use him to leverage more 
conversions. 

1555
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:08,000
Also worth noting, that's not 
necessarily even her goal. 

1556
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,200
Like maybe it's part of the 
master plan, but I I don't know.

1557
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,600
Not to say she hasn't been 
ambitious in the past, but it 

1558
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,040
doesn't seem like she's on this 
mission to spread relore or 

1559
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,560
become the head of one of the 
temples. 

1560
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:25,160
She's on this mission to put 
Stannis in position to save the 

1561
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:26,920
world from the others. 
Right? 

1562
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,720
So it's a little bit of a 
different motivation she even 

1563
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,760
has from spreading the religion.
You know, that's not that 

1564
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:36,000
there's not crossed over the 
Venn diagram, but it doesn't I 

1565
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,160
don't think of her ever having 
expressed. 

1566
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,040
I mean, she is burning people at
a state for not joining the 

1567
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,360
religion, but I don't know how 
much of that is because she 

1568
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:46,120
wants people to join a religion 
as it is. 

1569
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,680
She just knows that this is the 
right religion and you might as 

1570
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:51,880
well join and Stannis, you're 
supposed to be the one. 

1571
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:53,040
So I guess you should get people
to join. 

1572
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,280
It's all like wrapped up in this
idea of stopping the other 

1573
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,480
there's. 
Carrot and stick she's using the

1574
01:15:58,480 --> 01:16:02,200
the carrot of of like we all get
to live and and relore is the is

1575
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:03,680
the savior. 
And there's also the stick of 

1576
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:05,880
don't do it and you're going to 
burn and and she doesn't feel 

1577
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:07,880
bad about it because like, well,
look, you're going to die anyway

1578
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,920
if we don't save the world. 
So like there's no no skin off 

1579
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,200
my now off my hands. 
I don't feel guilty about this 

1580
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,080
because you're all going to die 
if we don't, you know, like, 

1581
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:16,680
what's a few extra burnings of 
long way? 

1582
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,960
Accidentally, inadvertently, 
very helpful because every 

1583
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,240
person burned is not going to be
a white right. 

1584
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:25,760
That's not something that 
they're doing on purpose, but it

1585
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,960
is actually the greatest benefit
that she's doing. 

1586
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,000
It's not really that she's 
helping reward converting 

1587
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,080
people, it's that there's fewer 
foot soldiers for the others. 

1588
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:38,120
It's a it's a grim way to look 
at it, but you're not wrong. 

1589
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:39,960
It's true. 
It's like, don't leave those 

1590
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,000
bodies behind. 
She knows that part. 

1591
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:44,480
Yeah. 
So, yeah, it, it. 

1592
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:46,640
Nina puts it as. 
It's almost like the politics of

1593
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,720
appearance. 
She's a foreign outsider in 

1594
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,720
Stannis's course, so she has to 
distinguish herself as 

1595
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:55,040
independently powerful. 
She can't just only rely on what

1596
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,120
Stannis does for her 'cause then
she seems like she's just like 

1597
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:00,680
cozying up to power and, and 
getting those benefits without 

1598
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,800
providing like a, like a remora 
or a suckerfish. 

1599
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:05,840
You know, she what, what, what 
value do you bring to the table?

1600
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:07,480
But she demonstrates a lot of 
value. 

1601
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:09,600
And that's probably what gets 
her attention from Stannis in 

1602
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:11,240
the 1st place. 
And she knew to do that. 

1603
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,280
She's like, I'm going to have to
make a splash. 

1604
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,000
I got to show that I'm really 
valuable. 

1605
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,480
This is a king that cares about 
merit. 

1606
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,480
I need to show that I have 
merit. 

1607
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,400
Not not a splash, an ash. 
An Ash, Good point. 

1608
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,680
Good point. 
And you know, that coin goes 

1609
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:27,640
other ways too, because she, she
might not have been happy about 

1610
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:30,480
it, but that was part of why she
wasn't brought to Blackwater 

1611
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:35,560
Bay, because Stannis and whoever
else didn't want it to seem like

1612
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,840
she won that battle. 
Stannis needed to win that 

1613
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,520
battle on his own, and if she 
went with them, people might 

1614
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:42,640
attribute it to black magic or 
whatever. 

1615
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,160
He needed to be the one to win 
the battle. 

1616
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,080
Yeah, This is why she said 
people shouldn't care about 

1617
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:48,080
that. 
If I had gone, he would have 

1618
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:49,200
won. 
It's better 'cause like, well, 

1619
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:50,680
it's better to win than have 
that. 

1620
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,080
Like, yes, that's not the best 
thing for people to think, but 

1621
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:54,800
it's worse to lose. 
Yeah, that's. 

1622
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,480
True. 
Yeah, so you'd rather win and 

1623
01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:00,120
have people suspicious of the 
reasons why you won? 

1624
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,800
So I can believe that she really
is tall and red headed and maybe

1625
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:07,400
even beautiful. 
Just that this is enhanced by 

1626
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:11,040
magic because the best glamours 
have truth to them. 

1627
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,560
They're not, it's not whole, not
invented at a whole cloth. 

1628
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,600
So maybe like she really is. 
And I definitely think she's 

1629
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:19,520
strong because I don't think you
can fake that, which does imply 

1630
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,680
that she's a bigger person. 
So which leads you to the tall 

1631
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:26,760
thing you know Anyway, and again
the not eating and drinking 

1632
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:28,760
stuff. 
She prays that she will never 

1633
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:32,080
dream again one day. 
And that is implies like a slow 

1634
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,080
process of transformation is 
happening here. 

1635
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:36,560
I was just saying, I will say 
you're saying like if if under 

1636
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:39,960
the glamour she's really it's 
some of these things, right? 

1637
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:42,600
Yeah, I think that makes sense 
with her being taught like 

1638
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,360
strong, like you're saying if 
she takes the glamour off and 

1639
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:49,520
she looks decrepit like for in 
Game of Thrones rather, right? 

1640
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,240
If that's what she looks like, 
do we picture that woman as 

1641
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,600
strong? 
You know, like that woman 

1642
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,120
holding a banner and. 
Like so that's kind of 

1643
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,440
interesting to think about. 
Like what we think like when the

1644
01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:03,360
glamour drops. 
Like is the strength A is the 

1645
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,600
strength part of her magic? 
Yeah, it might be like the 

1646
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:09,320
Ruby's empowering that somehow. 
Yeah, it could be right. 

1647
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,800
Like I I don't think we should 
assume that she's that strong 

1648
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:13,920
with her glamour. 
It's not from the glamour that 

1649
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:17,320
she gets the strength, but it's 
from other supernatural means. 

1650
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,560
I think, yeah, I don't, I don't 
know that glamours give you can 

1651
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:22,840
because they're it's a light 
bending like how does that make 

1652
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:23,840
you stronger? 
You know what I mean? 

1653
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:25,920
Physically at least. 
But let's talk more about 

1654
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:27,160
glamour. 
Let's get into that specifically

1655
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,880
and grant list sections called 
Glamours and Grand 

1656
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,440
Presentations. 
I know we could go on about this

1657
01:19:32,440 --> 01:19:34,920
forever, but pointing out that 
she could be drawing power from 

1658
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,320
multiple sources. 
Like she could have these real 

1659
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:43,200
powers from relore to like read 
flames and power this glamour. 

1660
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,640
But she could also have some 
shadow binding power that has 

1661
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,080
nothing to do with relore that 
lets her birth the baby. 

1662
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,480
Some potion she takes it makes 
her muscles regenerate or you 

1663
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:55,400
know, absolutely. 
We know she has certain powders 

1664
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:57,360
that can or poisons and 
etcetera. 

1665
01:19:57,360 --> 01:20:00,560
So she can have power coming 
from multiple sources. 

1666
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:04,320
The glamour get makes her look a
certain way, some other thing 

1667
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,240
gives her a certain strength. 
Absolutely. 

1668
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:09,440
And this is a good, good segue 
to glamours because glamours are

1669
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:10,960
one that does seem to have that 
overlap. 

1670
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,440
It seems to be a power of 
relore, but not exclusively a 

1671
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:16,680
power of relore. 
Let's hear from John 1A, Dance 

1672
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,320
Dragons, the execution of Mance,
who was actually rattleser with 

1673
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,080
the illusion from Melisandre. 
This comes after the death, 

1674
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:26,240
after the burning and we have 
the scene. 

1675
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:29,440
Mel has the crowd and grips them
by the throat like a like the 

1676
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:32,320
world class religious performer 
she is quote. 

1677
01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:35,680
I just want to say we had people
ask for a cat and I, I have a 

1678
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:37,520
cat all over me right now and 
they read. 

1679
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,840
This quote and there is a cat, 
just not on camera. 

1680
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:45,440
The red woman's robes of deep 
dyed scarlet swirled about her, 

1681
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,200
and her coppery hair made a Halo
round her face. 

1682
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,280
Tall yellow flames danced from 
her fingertips like claws. 

1683
01:20:53,480 --> 01:20:57,080
Free folk, your false gods 
cannot help you. 

1684
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,720
Your false horn did not save 
you. 

1685
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:05,000
Your false king brought you only
death, despair, defeat. 

1686
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:09,440
But here stands the true King. 
Behold his glory. 

1687
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:12,400
Stand. 
As Baratheon drew Lightbringer, 

1688
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:18,160
the sword glowed red and yellow 
and orange, alive with light. 

1689
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,320
Sean had seen the show before, 
but not like this. 

1690
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:28,120
Never before like this light 
bringer was the sun made steel. 

1691
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:32,760
When Stannis raised the blade 
above his head, men had to turn 

1692
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:37,560
their heads or cover their eyes.
Horses shield and one through 

1693
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:41,240
his rider. 
The blaze in the fire pit seemed

1694
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:46,600
to shrink before the storm of 
light, like a small dog cowering

1695
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:50,920
before a larger one. 
The wall itself turned red and 

1696
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:56,200
pink and orange as waves of 
color danced across the ice. 

1697
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:59,320
Is this the power of King's 
blood? 

1698
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,720
I think this is the power of 
glamour, John. 

1699
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:07,040
It's like now this is. 
A woman who genuinely loves 

1700
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:10,720
pageantry. 
This is a woman who genuinely 

1701
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:13,240
loves pageantry. 
Yeah, lots of tricks and skills 

1702
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:15,800
probably being used here. 
She described or the you know, 

1703
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:18,520
the chapter described the 
different powder she had hidden 

1704
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:21,880
in her sleeves and one of them 
was to make of of the flames 

1705
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:23,480
glow a certain color or 
whatever. 

1706
01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:26,720
I I wonder if she applied 
something to the fire to his 

1707
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:30,160
sword, maybe a glamour. 
But I get, once again, I see 

1708
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:33,160
multiple things could be coming 
into play to exacerbate this, 

1709
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,840
this light show, you know? 
Yeah, this is, this is very much

1710
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:38,520
like a fiery sermon, literary 
fiery like with the actual fire 

1711
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:41,320
quite, quite present. 
The brimstone is there too, but 

1712
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:43,280
it's the fire and the light that
really could shine out. 

1713
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:45,240
And there's fire. 
It's this fire dancing from her 

1714
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:47,280
fingertips. 
Like that's just, that's part of

1715
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:49,600
the showmanship. 
Macoro does this through his 

1716
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,480
staff, which is now lost. 
Presumably it fell overboard 

1717
01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:54,360
when he did. 
He didn't have it when he got 

1718
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,200
picked up by Victorian. 
Banaro does it too, but his is 

1719
01:22:57,200 --> 01:22:59,280
fancier. 
He does like when he's doing it 

1720
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:01,880
in front of the crowd. 
The Tyrion and and Jorisy, 

1721
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:05,360
they're they're Valyrian glyphs.
The little flames come out and 

1722
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:10,920
turn into glyphs and the glyphs 
are dark and like gloomy and, 

1723
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:14,840
and speak of doom. 
And it's like, oh, it's called 

1724
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,080
Lightbringer, but it's like, 
blindingly light. 

1725
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,000
So, yeah, a bright enough for a 
horse to almost throw its rider 

1726
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,800
like that. 
It's hard for me to imagine how 

1727
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:23,880
bright that is. 
Yeah, it did throw. 

1728
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:24,720
It did throw. 
You're right. 

1729
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:25,760
It did throw a rider. 
You're right. 

1730
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,000
Not almost. 
And that's interesting too, that

1731
01:23:28,440 --> 01:23:33,400
that means it's going beyond 
just like expectations, right, 

1732
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,360
Because the, a horse doesn't 
have the same expectations. 

1733
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:40,520
I, I can see like Ghost might 
not be getting tricked by this 

1734
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:44,240
glamour, but the horse was, you 
know, so there's some realness 

1735
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,840
to it and not just a glamour. 
Well, it's funny you say that 

1736
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,680
because Ghost is fooled by one 
of her glamours later, if you 

1737
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,280
recall. 
OK, so John's like, oh, wait, 

1738
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:54,120
you know, don't do that. 
And she's like Ghost. 

1739
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:56,560
And then she comes up, Ghost 
comes to her and is like all 

1740
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:58,360
friendly. 
And it's like, well, that's 

1741
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:04,240
interesting because Ghost is of 
bearer of red flags. 

1742
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,920
Ghost warns us about bad people 
and bad things. 

1743
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,240
And it's like, well, is this a 
is this George tricking us? 

1744
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:14,040
Is Melisandre fooled ghost or is
this a sign that Melisandre, you

1745
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:15,640
know, maybe? 
Is not that bad. 

1746
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:17,480
Not that bad or a little 
somewhere in between. 

1747
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:19,720
Well, I think it's just like, 
oh, her intentions towards John,

1748
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:22,120
right? 
That is also perhaps yeah, she 

1749
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:23,800
has and doesn't intend John any 
harm. 

1750
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:27,640
Yeah, that's the what goes to 
sensing usually is is less, it's

1751
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:29,920
not as much just general 
intentions. 

1752
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:31,920
You're that's a great point 
because what does Melisandre do 

1753
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:33,280
every morning? 
Look for danger to herself, 

1754
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:34,800
Ghosts looking for danger to 
John. 

1755
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,320
There you go. 
And but it's but again, this 

1756
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,200
isn't just about sight. 
Melisandre shows the ability to 

1757
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:46,000
use other forms of illusion 
besides light illusions like a 

1758
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:50,280
there's one example of sound 
illusion that she uses when she 

1759
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:53,840
undoes the glamour on Mance to 
reveal or on rattle shirt to 

1760
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,560
reveal that he's Mance. 
She says a word. 

1761
01:24:57,320 --> 01:25:00,360
John hears one word. 
Mance hears a different word. 

1762
01:25:00,440 --> 01:25:02,720
She thinks neither is the word 
that left her mouth. 

1763
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,280
So, so that is a whole nother 
angle to this. 

1764
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:08,400
So she's already got, she's got 
light and sound that she can 

1765
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:11,400
manipulate. 
It's that Yanny Laurel sound 

1766
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,320
thing all over again. 
Is that a red? 

1767
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,640
Is that a golden blue gold dress
or a blue dress? 

1768
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:17,560
Did he say, did she say Yanny 
Laurel? 

1769
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,440
Did she say this or that? 
We don't know. 

1770
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,200
So she's learned how to do those
things as part of learning her 

1771
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:26,560
glamouring. 
And she says that light is the 

1772
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:30,160
dominion of relore. 
So that's how glamours work, 

1773
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:31,360
right? 
It's like, that makes sense. 

1774
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:35,280
Yet Blood Raven uses glamours. 
That guy is not a red priest. 

1775
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,480
So we definitely know that they 
are not exclusive to relore. 

1776
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:41,760
Conceptually, Melissandre may be
describing them correctly as, 

1777
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:44,040
yeah, it's light. 
You bending light, it creates 

1778
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:45,720
illusions. 
Like, yeah, that makes sense. 

1779
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:47,880
Controlling light, controlling 
what you see. 

1780
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,680
Yeah, that that tracks. 
But to say that only the Lord of

1781
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,960
Life, Lord of like, can give 
that gift, that's where we can 

1782
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:56,640
pretty explicitly say that's not
true. 

1783
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,840
Just like I'm supposing that she
could draw on power outside of 

1784
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:02,720
relore, someone outside of 
relore could still draw on 

1785
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,120
relore's power. 
Yeah, or they're drawing from 

1786
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,960
something that they have labeled
relore and it doesn't really 

1787
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:09,960
have a name, it's just more. 
Neutral or what? 

1788
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,320
Yeah, it's just some some life 
energy, some fire elemental 

1789
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:15,560
power they can draw from. 
Who knows, Who knows what to 

1790
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,800
call it, But yeah, you would 
guess though, that that the 

1791
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:22,200
relore would kind of push the 
the notion that it's theirs, 

1792
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:24,520
that it belongs to their God. 
Well, there's only one God, so 

1793
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,880
you might be claiming it comes 
from somewhere else, but we know

1794
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:28,600
it comes from relore. 
Yeah, Bloodraven is just 

1795
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,160
channelling relore. 
That's what they would say. 

1796
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:33,760
But that's a that's a 
philosophical question, I 

1797
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,040
suppose. 
Back to briefly to the idea of 

1798
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:37,320
masks. 
It's funny that she's not 

1799
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:39,840
wearing a mask like a lot of 
people of a shy, but she is kind

1800
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:41,320
of wearing one. 
It's a mask of light. 

1801
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:43,920
It's not a physical mask. 
It's a glamour mask. 

1802
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:48,560
So there is that and to back 
that concept up, we have Clayf, 

1803
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:52,160
who is a shadowbinder, who when 
she appears to Danny in the 

1804
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:55,520
Dothraki Sea, she's wearing a 
quote mask of Starlight. 

1805
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:58,600
There you go. 
That's a pretty good parallel, 

1806
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:02,160
right? 
Let's talk about flame and heat 

1807
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:04,280
control, something that Red 
Priest seemed to have an ability

1808
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:06,280
to do. 
She is always hot and that's not

1809
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:09,200
an illusion, nor is it a 
euphemism for her appearance, 

1810
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:12,560
although that is an accurate 
thing you could say about her. 

1811
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:13,440
That's not what I'm talking 
about. 

1812
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:15,920
When she's walking around, she's
just melting the snow and ice, 

1813
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,720
like just just standing there. 
It's just melting. 

1814
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,440
She's just hot all the time. 
She doesn't need coats. 

1815
01:27:20,440 --> 01:27:22,120
She's not doesn't seem cold at 
any point. 

1816
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:25,040
She's like, Nah, I'm, I'm good. 
And that's not fake like she 

1817
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:28,320
really is. 
Perpetual menopause, actually. 

1818
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:31,400
It's not hot flashes, it's just,
she's just hot. 

1819
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,880
Yeah, there's no flash. 
It's just so with the swords 

1820
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,040
Catching Fire thing. 
We we must return to that 

1821
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,400
briefly. 
We haven't even seen her do it. 

1822
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,640
Let's not forget like you see 
her do it in the show a lot, but

1823
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,400
set that aside because she has 
not done it in the books at all.

1824
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,000
But I bet she can. 
Thoris does it like as we 

1825
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,800
described like she he seems to 
be doing without wildfire now. 

1826
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:55,400
So it seems low level or she can
do much more fancy things than 

1827
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:56,880
that. 
I can imagine she can do this 

1828
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:59,560
like she engulfed oral the eagle
in flames. 

1829
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:02,160
He was just flying up there and 
she's like burn. 

1830
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:04,560
But she can do that. 
She can probably put a sword on 

1831
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,400
fire, right? 
I mean, to be fair, eagles are 

1832
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,680
more flammable than swords. 
But like the distance, like he 

1833
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,760
just, he just like didn't even 
point at him as far as we know, 

1834
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:17,080
Just like you will burn now. 
Like whoa, damn. 

1835
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:21,560
And Veramir like felt it so 
'cause it was he, he was 

1836
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,960
controlling Veramir at the time 
or controlling the eagle at the 

1837
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:25,160
time. 
He just, like, collapsed in 

1838
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:27,240
pain. 
And John's like, what the hell 

1839
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:29,080
happened? 
Oh, the eagle's on fire. 

1840
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:30,560
All right. 
On time for me to get away. 

1841
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:33,000
This is my, this is my chance to
roll. 

1842
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:35,680
And yeah, she says, returning to
this briefly, too. 

1843
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:39,080
She claims Stannis would not 
have lost at the Blackwater if 

1844
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:41,760
she had been there. 
It might be a boast, but given 

1845
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:45,720
she can just explode birds at a 
you know, I can believe she 

1846
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:51,080
could do some pretty astonishing
things to ships or to ballista 

1847
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:53,080
or men. 
She might have been able to 

1848
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:56,760
direct the wildfire as it came. 
They might have been feeding her

1849
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,440
powers like, oh, thank you. 
Now we're definitely winning 

1850
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:00,200
this battle. 
Yeah. 

1851
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:02,000
This is my domain. 
Like you. 

1852
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,600
You just walked into my you. 
You tried to trap us, but now 

1853
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,000
you trapped yourself. 
So yeah, I can see that. 

1854
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:08,440
Maybe Nina writes the same 
thing. 

1855
01:29:08,440 --> 01:29:11,000
Maybe she could have protected 
the ships from the wildfire or 

1856
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,160
or something. 
Because Mary Mazdour was was 

1857
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:15,520
maybe trying to stop the burning
of her own self when she was in 

1858
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:17,840
thrown into the pyre by Danny. 
But it it wasn't. 

1859
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:20,000
She wasn't able to stop it, but 
it seemed like she was trying to

1860
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:23,680
do that. 
Bottom line, though, Melisandre 

1861
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,720
can do things we haven't seen 
yet. 

1862
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:31,200
She's implied it, and there's 
other reasons suspected outside 

1863
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:33,160
of what she said. 
Just given what we've seen from 

1864
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:36,440
other red priests, the fact that
magic isn't increasing, the fact

1865
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:38,880
that she says that the walls 
made her more powerful, we 

1866
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:40,600
haven't really seen the extent 
of that yet. 

1867
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:44,200
So there's more to come and we 
might see it through other red 

1868
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:46,400
priests. 
But yeah, and these are things 

1869
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,600
she learned a long time ago. 
These aren't new things, except 

1870
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:52,000
for in the case of literally 
when she says I'll be able to do

1871
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,080
things I've never done before 
because of the power at the 

1872
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:56,600
wall. 
So but she knows about that. 

1873
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,000
She knows she can do that. 
I think it is important to keep 

1874
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,920
in mind with what you just said,
that George believes that magic 

1875
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:04,680
should have a cost. 
So. 

1876
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:07,600
You can do things we haven't 
seen yet, but they may have 

1877
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,880
costs we haven't seen yet also. 
Good point. 

1878
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,040
Now she has found, at least in 
some cases, ways to outsource 

1879
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:15,160
that cost other people. 
Like Stannis is the one that 

1880
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:20,560
suffered from the shadow babies,
not that she didn't, but he we 

1881
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:22,680
don't know if she did. 
Maybe it drew some of her life 

1882
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,640
force off too. 
Maybe it did some harm to her 

1883
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,200
long term. 
It definitely did to Stannis. 

1884
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:29,560
So we just don't know. 
And she was trying to get Davos 

1885
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:31,960
to do it too. 
And Davos was like, no, I'm not 

1886
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:33,680
doing that. 
No, it's like, oh, I can't cheat

1887
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:37,200
on my wife. 
You know, it's like, that's what

1888
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:42,160
it would be, you know. 
So Thoros doesn't seem to do 

1889
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:45,160
this, like sacrificing people to
the flames or sacrificing 

1890
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:46,640
objects to the flames like 
Melisandre does. 

1891
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:50,000
Both. 
How much of this is red priest 

1892
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,200
education? 
How much of is it ash shy? 

1893
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:54,400
Probably both, because there's 
definitely sacrifice and 

1894
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:56,760
rollerism, you know, it's pretty
explicit. 

1895
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:58,360
But she doesn't just sacrifice 
people. 

1896
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:01,600
Like I said, she sacrificed the 
the ship's masts that they 

1897
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:06,000
carved from into the Seven. 
That's like Davos's first 

1898
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,600
chapter. 
And of course, she gives all 

1899
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:10,200
sorts of people to the flames on
top of that. 

1900
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:14,600
But she also burns the Weywood 
at Storm's End as a sacrifice to

1901
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:16,160
relore. 
That's that's not a person you 

1902
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:17,520
know. 
But she's not the only one who 

1903
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:19,600
does that. 
Now, Hartree may not be a 

1904
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,280
person, but it is still a sort 
of an entity. 

1905
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:24,800
And it's, I think, a sacrifice. 
You know what I mean? 

1906
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:29,120
Like in many ways, it may be 
hard for us to understand. 

1907
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:32,280
Maybe Melisandre doesn't doesn't
understand him. 

1908
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:35,360
I can imagine she might have a 
notion but just doesn't believe 

1909
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:36,920
it. 
That's a Bad Religion anyway, 

1910
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:39,520
you know. 
But yeah, Bloodraven, Bloodraven

1911
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,280
might have felt that, you know? 
So she learned that somewhere. 

1912
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:44,320
She learned that there's power 
and sacrifice. 

1913
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:46,360
There's power. 
And, you know, like she says 

1914
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:48,120
it's like, well, if you have a 
man who has 1000 cows and 

1915
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,840
sacrifices is one that's no true
cow, that's no true sacrifice. 

1916
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:53,320
She's the one who says that. 
And that's part of her argument 

1917
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:55,680
to Stannis to sacrifice Adric 
Storm. 

1918
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:57,600
He's like, yeah, he's your he's 
your nephew. 

1919
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:01,200
But that's part of what makes it
a great sacrifice is that's 

1920
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,280
that's that's a good thing, not 
a bad thing, you know, and like,

1921
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:08,120
but this is what she was taught.
This is her education. 

1922
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:09,600
This is how she was brought to 
believe. 

1923
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:11,760
Like, yeah, the more powerful 
the, the bigger the sacrifice, 

1924
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,640
the more response you get from 
the man upstairs. 

1925
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,760
It might not just be like her 
education which she was taught 

1926
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,600
to believe. 
It might be her experience. 

1927
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:21,840
She witnessed this to be true 
over and over again. 

1928
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:23,200
So. 
Good point, good point. 

1929
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:27,080
Now like again, Thoris doesn't 
do this, so it isn't. 

1930
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:30,840
This is another example of not 
all red priests have the same 

1931
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,080
cultural values. 
Not all red temples teach their 

1932
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,360
priests the same things. 
They don't all worship the same 

1933
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:36,640
way. 
They don't all feel the same way

1934
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,400
about certain aspects of what 
their brethren at other red 

1935
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:41,400
temples might believe. 
If some of that's cultural, some

1936
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:42,960
of that's just the way it 
developed, yeah. 

1937
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:45,320
You remind me of something else 
I meant to say earlier when we 

1938
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:50,040
were talking about like how some
people drafted enslaved, 

1939
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:54,240
whatever brought into real or 
they show a certain aptitude or 

1940
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:58,160
talent for something and they to
get promoted or advanced or 

1941
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:02,080
focused in on one thing they 
might show is a willingness to 

1942
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,600
do it. 
Like, Hey, kill these kittens 

1943
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:07,240
and you can, you know, make the 
flames burn longer. 

1944
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:09,920
And some little girls might be 
like, I don't want to kill the 

1945
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:11,440
kittens. 
All right, you're not promoted. 

1946
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,480
The the mean little boy's like 
I'll kill kittens. 

1947
01:33:13,480 --> 01:33:14,600
I don't care. 
All right, you're getting 

1948
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:16,720
promoted, you know. 
That's very similar to the 

1949
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,040
Unsullied dog killing thing that
they have to do, which is 

1950
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:21,960
horrible. 
Yeah. 

1951
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:24,800
So maybe that's part of her lore
upbringing is they they do some 

1952
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:28,840
they, they they devise these 
tests for the young folk to get 

1953
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:31,680
them more acclimated to 
sacrifice and giving up the 

1954
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:35,120
earthly things to to further the
the grand goal of relore. 

1955
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:37,000
I mean, yeah, it's not just 
Edric Storm. 

1956
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:40,200
She wants to burn and she burns 
leeches and does the whole 

1957
01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:43,600
Joffrey's going to die. 
Renly's going to die, Rob's 

1958
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:47,000
going to die. 
Like, where did she learn the 

1959
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:49,520
power of King's blood? 
Like that isn't something we 

1960
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:51,400
hear the other red priest talk 
about. 

1961
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:54,880
Maybe we just haven't had the 
opportunity, maybe just hasn't 

1962
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:56,560
come up. 
But Thoros doesn't say anything 

1963
01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:00,440
about King's blood. 
Neither does Banero, neither 

1964
01:34:00,440 --> 01:34:02,760
does Macoro. 
Again, we haven't exactly had a 

1965
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,800
lot of conversations with these 
characters, but this might be 

1966
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:09,800
more of an Ash Eye thing or. 
It's also something like, how do

1967
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:11,920
you get trained in this? 
How do they get King's blood to 

1968
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:14,920
test it out or to train the 
acolytes or see who's good at it

1969
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:16,840
or whatever? 
How do I identify King's Blood 

1970
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:18,560
101? 
Yeah, it's a class she took. 

1971
01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:19,480
Entry level. 
Yeah. 

1972
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:21,800
Flame reading. 
Let's talk about flame reading. 

1973
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:26,520
That's one of the biggest, most 
glaring, pun intended powers 

1974
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:29,400
that Red priests have, one that 
we explicitly all have. 

1975
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:32,400
It's maybe the only power that 
all Red priests seem to have is 

1976
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:35,480
reading the flames. 
And all three, like I said, all 

1977
01:34:35,480 --> 01:34:38,160
three besides the Bravosi guy, 
we don't know if he can read 

1978
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,920
flames, probably can, but these 
other ones all can. 

1979
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:43,880
So let's let's get her insight 
on it from her internal 

1980
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:44,760
monologue. 
Quote. 

1981
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,920
It was an art, and like all 
arts, it demanded mastery, 

1982
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:56,120
discipline, study, pain that too
relore spoke to his chosen ones 

1983
01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:00,800
through blessed fire, in a 
language of ash and cinder and 

1984
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:04,400
twisting flame that only a God 
could truly grasp. 

1985
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:09,320
Melisandre had practiced her art
for years beyond count, and she 

1986
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,840
had paid the price. 
Years beyond count definitely 

1987
01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:15,600
gives us some of that hint to 
her being a lot older than she 

1988
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:17,600
looks. 
Some of that sense comes from 

1989
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:20,160
this and the pain of paying a 
price. 

1990
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:24,000
This is a form of sacrifice, 
suffering for a greater goal or 

1991
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:26,480
a greater good. 
And yeah, we've see this in 

1992
01:35:26,480 --> 01:35:28,360
other places. 
It's a it's like you said, Sean 

1993
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:32,160
earlier, very, very sagely that 
yes, this is a a recurring theme

1994
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,800
of George RR Martin, that these 
powers have to be paid for. 

1995
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:37,840
Danny had to be willing to step 
into the fire to hatch those 

1996
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:41,080
Dragons. 
Barrick gave his life time and 

1997
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:44,160
time again and then finally gave
it away to to Stoneheart. 

1998
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:48,720
And Nina says for all the real 
moral complexity of Melisandre, 

1999
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:51,040
she certainly understands that 
it's supernatural is not 

2000
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:52,120
something that can be handed to 
her. 

2001
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:56,840
She treats it with respect, not 
as a it's a tool, but it's a 

2002
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,520
fool that she has to respect. 
It's a it's almost a wild 

2003
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:01,120
animal. 
It's uncertain. 

2004
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:04,560
It's changing like fire itself. 
Fire is unpredictable. 

2005
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,680
Fire is is chaotic. 
So it it makes sort of sense 

2006
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:11,720
that you would personify these 
things in a similar way, like 

2007
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:15,400
using fire as sort of a model 
for a lot of how things in the 

2008
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:17,920
rest of the world work. 
Again, the first thing they 

2009
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:19,800
learn to see in the flames is 
danger to themselves. 

2010
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:22,440
So the first thing they learn is
to keep the fire going. 

2011
01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:23,680
That's the first basic thing 
they learn. 

2012
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:28,440
But the first magical thing they
learn is to see flames, See the 

2013
01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:31,360
danger to yourself in the 
flames, Being confident in that.

2014
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:34,000
Melisandre's old enough that 
she's probably had several times

2015
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,120
where she's like, Yep, I saw 
that danger to myself. 

2016
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:37,800
I prevented it how many times 
before. 

2017
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:39,400
She's like, really confident in 
there. 

2018
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:41,720
I was like, yeah, I, I would 
have died half a dozen times by 

2019
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:44,520
now if not for my flame reading.
And that would make her very 

2020
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:45,800
confident. 
It's like, yeah, I'm not going 

2021
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,120
to die because I will see it 
coming. 

2022
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,160
And that's, yeah, that's really 
important. 

2023
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,120
It might be really important 
because we've talked a few times

2024
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:56,160
about the idea that she seems to
be kind of ahead of the curve on

2025
01:36:56,160 --> 01:37:00,760
these visions, so much so that 
she's like gone to Westeros and,

2026
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:03,360
you know, married up with 
Stannis, right, Where other 

2027
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:07,800
people are kind of behind The 
thing is part of that part of 

2028
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:11,360
going to Westeros and inserting 
herself into Stannis's court, 

2029
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,920
there's some danger involved, as
we saw with Crescent. 

2030
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:16,360
Maybe some other dangers have 
happened and are yet to happen, 

2031
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:18,320
right? 
Because even Crescent is someone

2032
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:21,280
you maybe you wouldn't see 
danger coming from like an old 

2033
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:23,960
man, right? 
But there's a bunch of other 

2034
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:27,840
like Knights with swords and you
know, violent people around. 

2035
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:32,440
Other priests might have not 
dared put themselves into this 

2036
01:37:32,440 --> 01:37:36,040
situation into the 1st place 
because it's so dangerous, but 

2037
01:37:36,040 --> 01:37:39,560
she is so confident and skilled 
at reading the flames, she's 

2038
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:41,040
more willing to do it than other
people. 

2039
01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:42,800
Does that make sense? 
Yeah, it might be. 

2040
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:46,400
It might be a combination of her
being better reading the visions

2041
01:37:46,480 --> 01:37:49,760
to let her think Stannis is 
there is the one or the a bigger

2042
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:52,360
threat is coming. 
But also she's more willing to 

2043
01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:56,160
go do something about it because
she is more confident in danger.

2044
01:37:56,440 --> 01:37:58,600
And then the other people are 
because they're not as good at 

2045
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:01,960
detecting danger to themselves. 
Some people maybe tried to do 

2046
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:04,080
something and got killed because
I didn't see the danger coming. 

2047
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,520
Or other people have been nearly
killed or afraid to try again 

2048
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:08,320
because they're not good enough 
for reading that. 

2049
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:12,080
But she is, so her confidence 
and her skill combined have put 

2050
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:13,240
her into the position she's in 
now. 

2051
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:15,480
Competence and confidence, yes, 
yeah, I like it. 

2052
01:38:15,480 --> 01:38:18,000
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 
And after so many iterations, 

2053
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:19,840
yeah, her confidence would just 
continue to grow. 

2054
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:21,160
And it's also just rotated 
faith. 

2055
01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:24,840
Like, no, I have, I'm here for a
purpose, I have a destiny, etc. 

2056
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:28,320
I won't die before that. 
But of course you have to cross 

2057
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:32,000
your eyes and dot your TS. 
Yes, I said that backwards on 

2058
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,160
purpose. 
Now she says, or thanks to 

2059
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:35,920
herself. 
There was no one even in her 

2060
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:38,480
order who had her skill at 
seeing the secrets half revealed

2061
01:38:38,480 --> 01:38:40,160
and half concealed within the 
sacred flames. 

2062
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:42,520
We quoted that before, but 
important enough to say again, 

2063
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:44,160
it doesn't really come off as 
boastful. 

2064
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:45,880
Like, it's confident, but not 
boastful. 

2065
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:47,520
It's not like I'm better than 
everybody else. 

2066
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:50,920
No, it's just this reads to me 
like someone who knows. 

2067
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:55,040
Like she's compared herself 
specifically, she's seen how 

2068
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:57,360
other red priests do this and 
they come up short, like she is 

2069
01:38:57,360 --> 01:38:59,120
better. 
On the other hand, like how 

2070
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:01,960
many, like there's this a big 
world, there's a lot of red 

2071
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:03,840
priests. 
How does she really know that 

2072
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:05,640
she's the best? 
Or you know, and is that still 

2073
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:07,040
true? 
Was it true one day and not 

2074
01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:08,440
anymore? 
I don't know. 

2075
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,320
Magic has changed the the waves 
of magic in and out. 

2076
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:14,400
I don't know where she gets such
confidence that she's the best, 

2077
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:16,960
but I do understand why she has 
confidence. 

2078
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:20,200
By the way, one way you might 
get that confidence is if you're

2079
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,720
significantly better than the 
other people who are respected. 

2080
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:24,880
For it. 
That's true, right? 

2081
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,200
Good. 
Point like if you if you run a 

2082
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:31,400
race in, I don't know, in like 
the the US national tournament 

2083
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:35,520
and you blow everyone else away,
you might think I'm the best in 

2084
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:37,360
the world. 
Like, like maybe if there was 

2085
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:40,480
someone else faster, how much 
faster are they than all the 

2086
01:39:40,480 --> 01:39:41,840
other? 
I just, I just beat everyone 

2087
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:43,240
else easily. 
Does that make sense? 

2088
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,120
And the United States is a lot 
of competition, so probably not,

2089
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:49,320
you know? 
You don't know for sure, but you

2090
01:39:49,320 --> 01:39:51,440
just everyone you've ever 
competed against, you beat by a 

2091
01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:53,080
mile. 
You're just like, you get that 

2092
01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:54,880
kind of like, well, it's hard to
believe that someone else is 

2093
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,320
fast as me. 
Yeah, you might be wrong, but 

2094
01:39:57,320 --> 01:39:58,440
you have a. 
Certain if it was at the 

2095
01:39:58,440 --> 01:40:01,520
Olympics, at the Olympics and 
you easily beat everyone. 

2096
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:03,840
I mean, I guess maybe there's 
some dude in Jamaica and come to

2097
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,080
the Olympics, but everyone that 
was here, I beat them easily. 

2098
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:07,560
So I probably would beat them 
too you. 

2099
01:40:07,560 --> 01:40:08,720
Know. 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

2100
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:12,280
So again, I want to repeat that 
while Melisandre has gotten a 

2101
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:15,440
lot of interpretations wrong, 
just going through rereading 

2102
01:40:15,440 --> 01:40:18,320
every scene she was in and and 
getting like AI didn't make a 

2103
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:21,280
list of all her predictions, but
the number she gets right is 

2104
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:23,400
kind of astonishing. 
I've never focused just on 

2105
01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:25,800
Melisandre's only like this. 
And so I didn't, I didn't have 

2106
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:28,280
this awareness before. 
But yeah, she gets so many of 

2107
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:31,120
them right. 
It's yeah, the wrong ones stand 

2108
01:40:31,120 --> 01:40:34,040
out more, but that's why I want 
to reiterate how many ones she 

2109
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:35,760
gets right. 
Because of that, I think more 

2110
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:37,000
people have noticed the wrong 
ones. 

2111
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:40,040
This next text is called 
Straight out of Asha. 

2112
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:43,320
At one point she went or was 
sent to Asha. 

2113
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:44,760
Again. 
We don't know which it was, 

2114
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:47,600
whether the Red Temple sent her 
because of her talent and wanted

2115
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:50,520
to develop it more. 
Asha would probably have a lot 

2116
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:53,560
of talent there already. 
It's such a sorceress city, but 

2117
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:56,360
maybe she's just stood out and 
was just that good. 

2118
01:40:57,160 --> 01:41:00,480
It's also the place by quote UN 
quote, the shadow, which is, 

2119
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:02,320
yeah, you'd think that's 
Relore's dominion. 

2120
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:04,680
He's a God of flame and shadow. 
And you're like, well, that's 

2121
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,960
maybe closer to him in some way 
or closer to the heart of him. 

2122
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:12,320
I don't know what how you would 
see this as a zealot, but if she

2123
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:15,520
went on her own, the entire in 
place again is is tied to her 

2124
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:17,840
flame reading skill. 
She's like, yo, I'm just better 

2125
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,240
than this at everybody. 
I'm going to develop this even 

2126
01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:21,960
further. 
I want to learn more about what 

2127
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:23,640
I might be able to see what I'm 
seeing here. 

2128
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:26,240
Delving into the ancient 
mysteries, learning more about 

2129
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:29,120
history, learning more about a 
shy and the things that a shy 

2130
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:32,560
has to teach her would help her 
interpret her visions even more.

2131
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:35,360
She would broaden her horizons, 
learn about what else is out 

2132
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:38,360
there to you know, and thus be 
more able to comprehend what 

2133
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:39,720
she's seeing. 
Or at least that might be 

2134
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:42,280
thinking. 
I'm sort of vamping here, but 

2135
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:45,120
that's it. 
It reads that that sounds 

2136
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:49,880
intuitively right to me. 
And there's just power itself, 

2137
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:54,320
like A Song of Ice and Fire is 
among many things, talks about 

2138
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:56,000
power. 
One of the main themes is power.

2139
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,280
Power corrupting the pursuit of 
power, the use of power. 

2140
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:02,360
The wall increases her power. 
She thinks of it as a hinge of 

2141
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:04,360
the world. 
And the only place that came 

2142
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:06,760
close before it was Ash Eye, 
which implies that Ash Eye is 

2143
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:09,360
maybe the second most powerful. 
So that's a reason to go there 

2144
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:11,160
too. 
Like, well, I use magic. 

2145
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:13,000
If I go there, my magic will be 
powerful. 

2146
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:15,200
And it seems kind of 
straightforward when you say it 

2147
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:18,000
that way. 
But there's also other little 

2148
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:22,160
hints that might tie in. 
Quaithe again, a shadow binder 

2149
01:42:22,280 --> 01:42:25,520
from Ash Eye tells Danny to 
reach the light, you must pass 

2150
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:28,600
beneath the shadow. 
Is Melisandre aware of that 

2151
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:31,640
phrase, of that concept within 
the prophecies? 

2152
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:34,800
Is she trying to follow that 
same path to try to unearth some

2153
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:37,160
of these mysteries? 
Because not only is it an 

2154
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:39,520
ancient repository of sorcery, 
again, it's probably the best 

2155
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:42,000
place and not the only place in 
the world to find old texts on 

2156
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:43,960
Azora High. 
So you would think Relores would

2157
01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:45,440
want to work on that or learn 
about it. 

2158
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:49,240
And maybe even more so in these 
last few years when there's 

2159
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:52,760
maybe more reason to suspect 
that these things are coming to 

2160
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:55,280
a head. 
Azora High, the birth of Azor 

2161
01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:58,120
High may be closer to coming. 
Or maybe it's already happened. 

2162
01:42:59,120 --> 01:43:01,040
According to her, it has like 
she thinks it's Stannis. 

2163
01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:02,840
According to Banero, it's it's 
Danny. 

2164
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:08,040
Now we get an example of this 
when she's burning the seven 

2165
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:10,160
wooden gods in a Clash of Kings 
quote. 

2166
01:43:10,440 --> 01:43:14,000
In ancient books of a shy, it is
written that there will come a 

2167
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:19,040
day after a long summer when the
stars bleed and the cold breath 

2168
01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:21,920
of darkness falls heavy on the 
world. 

2169
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:26,800
In this dread hour, a warrior 
shall draw from the fire a 

2170
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:31,680
burning sword, and that sword 
shall be Lightbringer, the Red 

2171
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:36,760
Sword of Heroes, and he who 
clasps it shall be Azorahai. 

2172
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:40,840
Come again, and the darkness 
shall flee before him. 

2173
01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:44,080
She prays to the relor in at 
least three tongues when is one 

2174
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:47,240
of which is the speech of Ashai 
When she sings in Ashai at one 

2175
01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:48,920
point, which is must sound 
really creepy. 

2176
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:50,960
Is this where she learned about 
the power of King's blood Ashai?

2177
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:53,480
I figure it's more likely she 
learned it there than than from 

2178
01:43:53,480 --> 01:43:56,480
the Red priests, but maybe again
the Red priests. 

2179
01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:58,160
No other Red priest refers to 
the power of King's blood. 

2180
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:00,480
The only other person who says 
that is Maester Eamonn, and it's

2181
01:44:00,480 --> 01:44:03,840
in the context of Melisandre may
be Burning Manse's child. 

2182
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:07,640
So yeah, so this is a bit of a 
mystery that maybe goes off the 

2183
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:11,000
beaten path of just relore stuff
and maybe another example of her

2184
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:13,720
cross training in other magical 
disciplines. 

2185
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:17,680
I like to say that if this were 
D&D, she's multiclass. 

2186
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:19,480
A lot of red priests are 
clerics. 

2187
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:22,200
She's cleric, slash sorcerer, 
and maybe multiple types of 

2188
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:24,480
sorcerer, maybe multiple types 
of cleric, I don't know. 

2189
01:44:24,480 --> 01:44:27,160
But she is cross trained. 
She whatever, however you want 

2190
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:29,480
to phrase it, she's got skills 
outside of what normal red 

2191
01:44:29,480 --> 01:44:31,280
priests learn. 
And that is a lot of this right 

2192
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:32,680
here. 
For example, dragon lore. 

2193
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:35,400
I brought that up with me in the
intro and haven't said it since.

2194
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,080
Ash Eye is filled with knowledge
about dragon lore. 

2195
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:39,800
Danny was originally going to go
to Ash Eye. 

2196
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:42,560
George wrote it that way. 
That's his plan was to send her 

2197
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:46,120
there, but he didn't. 
So in a lot of ways, you wonder,

2198
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:50,560
maybe Melisandre is bringing Ash
Eye to Danny since she's not 

2199
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:53,040
going to Ash Eye. 
Who else knows more about Ash 

2200
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:55,040
Eye than her? 
Who else has this collected 

2201
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:56,760
knowledge? 
Mary Mazdor was burned to death.

2202
01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:58,640
She and she didn't spend nearly 
as much time there. 

2203
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:01,360
Marwin. 
OK, Marwin has been to Ash Eye 

2204
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:04,680
and he supposedly is going to 
Danny, but is that enough? 

2205
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,200
Is that you know? 
Yeah. 

2206
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,740
So I think this could be this 
could be a huge key to her long 

2207
01:45:09,740 --> 01:45:14,280
term role in the story, her 
untapped dragon lore, which I 

2208
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:16,440
imagine is there, but she has 
very little reason to have 

2209
01:45:16,440 --> 01:45:18,920
spoken of it yet. 
You know, that might be some 

2210
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:22,120
seed planning for Marwin to meet
with Danny and tell us some 

2211
01:45:22,120 --> 01:45:24,320
certain things that Danny is 
able to shrug off. 

2212
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:28,120
But then she encounters 
Melisandre saying the same 

2213
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:30,280
things that Dan's like, OK, I 
guess I have to address this 

2214
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:30,720
now. 
I have to. 

2215
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:34,200
I can't just blow this off, 
especially if Marwin and or 

2216
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:36,120
Melisandre shows some real 
power. 

2217
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:40,920
Never mind what Quaithe might 
have a role in all this still 

2218
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:41,720
too, right? 
So. 

2219
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:42,840
Right on. 
Yeah, well said. 

2220
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:44,440
Let's talk a little bit about 
shadow binding. 

2221
01:45:44,440 --> 01:45:47,960
Let's add this into the mix now.
Quaithe, Miri Mazdor, and maybe 

2222
01:45:47,960 --> 01:45:52,280
Marwin are the only ones who 
have explicitly have knowledge 

2223
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:54,840
of shadow binding or the ability
to do it. 

2224
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:59,000
But only Quaithe is actually 
from Ash Eye that we know of or 

2225
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:01,200
has spent like a large amount of
time there. 

2226
01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:04,360
Miri Mazdor has studied there, 
Marwin studied there, but they 

2227
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:07,720
didn't like live there for super
long periods of time as far as 

2228
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:09,400
we can tell. 
I kind of doubt Marwin is 

2229
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:13,080
actually able to bind shadows. 
He just knows about the the 

2230
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:14,400
magic. 
I don't think he actually cast 

2231
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:17,920
the spells, but maybe she 
summons a shadow twice that we 

2232
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:19,920
see and it's clearly no simple 
thing. 

2233
01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:23,520
We get a really good look at it 
in that Davos chapter when she 

2234
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:26,000
sends the shadow to kill 
Courtney Penrose. 

2235
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:29,720
We've already seen the shadow 
kill Renly by this point, but we

2236
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:31,640
see that from Brienne's 
perspective and we don't see the

2237
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:34,880
shadow being birthed, we just 
see it enter the room, kill 

2238
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:39,040
Renly, and that's that. 
This is a different angle when 

2239
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:42,280
Davos sees it being born, and 
it's super creepy. 

2240
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:46,000
But this is also maybe part of 
the reason she glamours herself.

2241
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:48,720
If the creation of shadows takes
a toll on her, like we talked 

2242
01:46:48,720 --> 01:46:51,920
about earlier, it might she 
might want to keep that under 

2243
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:54,480
wraps. 
But just think about the 

2244
01:46:54,480 --> 01:46:56,840
implications of your. 
How the heck do you, like, learn

2245
01:46:56,840 --> 01:46:58,880
the skill? 
How do you practice this one? 

2246
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,000
Like, what's the test run of a 
shadow baby? 

2247
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:05,880
Like, yeah, just where do you, 
like, get pregnant from a 

2248
01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:08,840
hapless slave person and then 
just send that out? 

2249
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:14,040
Like, yeah, where do you like, 
how do you test run this crazy 

2250
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:16,000
to imagine? 
Might be dark to imagine. 

2251
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:18,840
I can imagine some of the red 
priests are excited to test this

2252
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,120
out right? 
Like, oh Alessandra, hey, we 

2253
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:24,480
need to test this. 
Yeah, do they have like 

2254
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:27,480
volunteers from from lesser 
figures within the already of 

2255
01:47:27,480 --> 01:47:30,840
like the fiery hand, like the 
warriors or the the sex workers?

2256
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:34,360
Like there'd have to be male sex
workers to have a shadow baby 

2257
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:38,120
with Melisandre. 
But yeah, like it's weird to 

2258
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:40,760
kind of think about the nitty 
gritty of this part. 

2259
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:43,680
Like, I don't know. 
So again, there's no evidence 

2260
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:46,840
that Thoros and Macoro or Benero
can do anything like this. 

2261
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:48,960
I mean, they're men, so they 
can't birth shadow babies. 

2262
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:52,320
But like any kind of shadow 
binding can they do no evidence 

2263
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:53,800
they can't. 
And it's interesting to think 

2264
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,360
about this though, because This 
is why it all slid under the 

2265
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:57,720
radar. 
And maybe it's hard to notice in

2266
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,400
the 1st place, this difference 
because rewards the God of flame

2267
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:02,760
and shadow. 
Shadow binding kind of fits with

2268
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:06,040
what they would be able to do 
but it but there's strong 

2269
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:09,000
evidence that she is an 
exception yet it would make 

2270
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:10,480
sense. 
And Nina has this great idea 

2271
01:48:10,480 --> 01:48:15,800
that I love that given relorists
attention to shadow and the ash 

2272
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:19,000
eye being a place cast in shadow
with all these ancient mysteries

2273
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:22,120
and other lore that are 
associated that quite possibly 

2274
01:48:22,200 --> 01:48:26,080
there's like a a sect within 
relore that really values the 

2275
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:27,680
shadow and thinks this is a big 
part of it. 

2276
01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:31,120
So shadow biting is part of 
their arsenal because it fits in

2277
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:34,520
with their viewpoint and people 
all the way over in mirror who 

2278
01:48:34,520 --> 01:48:36,720
don't live anywhere near the 
shadow, who don't have access to

2279
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:39,600
this magic in the 1st place. 
They never got into that, you 

2280
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:41,840
know, why would they have? 
Like, where would you learn 

2281
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:43,000
that? 
If you live in mirror, how are 

2282
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:43,960
you going to learn how to 
shadow? 

2283
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:45,600
Who's going to do? 
Who's the shadow binder that 

2284
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:46,840
teaches you living out there? 
Right. 

2285
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:50,000
But the, the, the women, the, 
the gender thing also kind of 

2286
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:52,600
makes it a little confusing 
because it's like the other red 

2287
01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:55,440
priests we've seen, even if they
could shadowbind, they aren't 

2288
01:48:55,440 --> 01:48:56,400
women. 
They don't have wombs. 

2289
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:58,160
Like they can't, they can't do 
that. 

2290
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:03,280
So it's it's hidden behind other
layers of of mystery here. 

2291
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:06,360
Maybe a moon is not required. 
Maybe a womb isn't required. 

2292
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:08,080
Don't limit the men's ability 
here, Aziz. 

2293
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:10,120
You could grow a baby in your 
sack. 

2294
01:49:10,120 --> 01:49:14,320
Yeah, that's how it works. 
Hey, we're already over the line

2295
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:15,320
here, right? 
Yeah. 

2296
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:20,640
So it we're also told that only 
shadow binders travel up the Ash

2297
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:24,320
River. 
Is this like a a rite of passage

2298
01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:27,520
or like why do they do it? 
You know, Or is it just some 

2299
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:30,360
rumor that's twisted by the game
of telephone? 

2300
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:33,000
Hasn't Alessandra done this? 
I'm really wondering like this. 

2301
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:35,280
Melisandre gone to the to Stig 
eye. 

2302
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:39,160
She gone up the ash river to the
the darkness where Dragons and 

2303
01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:41,600
demons live in caves and 
darkness. 

2304
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:45,800
It sounds exaggerated, but maybe
there's a reason to go there. 

2305
01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:48,640
Maybe she's learned things 
there, resurrections of power we

2306
01:49:48,640 --> 01:49:53,920
haven't seen her do except on 
the show, but it seems not 

2307
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:55,960
unlikely. 
Again, she seems way more 

2308
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:57,960
powerful than Thoros and Thoros 
has done it. 

2309
01:49:58,360 --> 01:50:02,320
But consider this cross training
again comes up. 

2310
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:07,520
Melisandre has access to two at 
least forms of magic that seems 

2311
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:09,880
to have some form of necromancy 
involved. 

2312
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:14,400
A the relore version that we saw
yes on TV, but more relevantly 

2313
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:17,760
we saw with Thoros resurrecting 
Barrack multiple times and then 

2314
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:20,240
Barracks somehow taking charge 
of that himself and passing it 

2315
01:50:20,240 --> 01:50:24,240
on to Catelyn. 
But what about Khal Drogo? 

2316
01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:27,840
Miri Mazdour used shadow binding
to extend his life. 

2317
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:29,600
And of course it was a little 
bit of a trick, like Danny 

2318
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:31,840
didn't know what she was getting
into, but it did work to a 

2319
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:34,680
certain extent. 
He was kept alive, yes. 

2320
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:37,200
He was basically a had the brain
of a horse or whatever, 

2321
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:40,560
catatonic and what is life when 
all is gone? 

2322
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:42,720
Like all these metaphors. 
But technically his heart was 

2323
01:50:42,720 --> 01:50:43,640
beating. 
He was alive. 

2324
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:45,960
So Melisandre might know how to 
do that too. 

2325
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:48,800
So she might have two different 
forms of magic that can animate 

2326
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:52,680
somebody, which is a lot of 
implications for John and and 

2327
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:55,080
maybe other people. 
It's also worth noting that 

2328
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:57,280
Thoreau's didn't really have any
training in that he. 

2329
01:50:57,280 --> 01:50:58,280
Just did it. 
Yeah, it was kind of an. 

2330
01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:00,200
Accident, an accident almost, 
right? 

2331
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:07,240
So whether Melisandre has the 
ability or knowledge or training

2332
01:51:07,240 --> 01:51:10,200
or whatever, she still might be 
able to do it without realizing 

2333
01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:11,400
it. 
And, and you know, that might be

2334
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:12,800
the case with someone for other 
powers too. 

2335
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:15,480
They might have just been 
bestowed a punch. 

2336
01:51:15,480 --> 01:51:16,880
She might have stumbled into it,
right? 

2337
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:20,560
You know, I can imagine she 
seems like she has trained and 

2338
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:24,240
learned and sacrificed her way 
along all this, but it doesn't 

2339
01:51:24,240 --> 01:51:28,840
mean she couldn't have had an 
aptitude due to being the chosen

2340
01:51:28,840 --> 01:51:30,480
one of some sort in the 1st 
place. 

2341
01:51:30,480 --> 01:51:31,920
Like thoroughs, you know? 
Agreed. 

2342
01:51:31,920 --> 01:51:33,640
Agreed. 
Now her Ruby. 

2343
01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:36,880
Her Ruby is of enough interest 
to have its own page on the 

2344
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:39,320
wiki. 
She has a page and then Mel's, 

2345
01:51:39,440 --> 01:51:42,360
then then Mel's on. 
Ruby has a page now. 

2346
01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:44,680
She has it from the beginning. 
And by the beginning I mean from

2347
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:48,160
the first scene she appears in. 
It's a safe bet bus that she 

2348
01:51:48,160 --> 01:51:50,320
arrived in Westeros with it. 
Pretty safe bet. 

2349
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:52,960
It has glowed on several 
occasions. 

2350
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:57,280
It gets mentioned a lot as 
drinking the light or reflecting

2351
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:02,080
the light or whatever, but it 
pulses when she's explicitly 

2352
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:05,800
doing magical things and it's 
pretty clearly connected to 

2353
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:08,160
glamours. 
It likely has a role in the 

2354
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:11,120
illusion around her appearance, 
but it probably does more than 

2355
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:12,280
that. 
That's probably not it's only 

2356
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:14,800
role. 
For example, she touches her 

2357
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:18,000
Ruby on her neck to break the 
glamour on Mance. 

2358
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:20,520
So John can see that he's not 
rattle shirt that he is actually

2359
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:26,400
Mance and he is bound to her in 
some unknown way by the Ruby 

2360
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:29,080
bracelet that that he's wearing.
And it's sort of it's like she 

2361
01:52:29,080 --> 01:52:31,360
thinks of it as a master Ruby 
and a slave Ruby. 

2362
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:35,760
So there's some sort of gemstone
sorcery going on here. 

2363
01:52:36,200 --> 01:52:38,600
And he she can feel things 
through the bond, like she can 

2364
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:41,720
feel things that's happening to 
him or, you know, like just kind

2365
01:52:41,720 --> 01:52:46,040
of like how she felt the the 
burning of actual rattle shirt 

2366
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:49,600
when he was in the cage there. 
And as she thought that the Ruby

2367
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:52,720
was blackening and she thought 
that her skin might burn and 

2368
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:55,240
smoke and people might actually 
see that she was so worried 

2369
01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:58,280
about that happening. 
And then John kind of saved her 

2370
01:52:58,280 --> 01:53:02,040
a bit from that pain and that 
reveal by killing Rattle shirt 

2371
01:53:02,200 --> 01:53:05,160
with arrows. 
So Thoros and Macoro don't use 

2372
01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:07,160
rubies. 
Madero doesn't seem to have any 

2373
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:08,680
sort of gemstone either. 
So this is interesting. 

2374
01:53:08,680 --> 01:53:11,160
This is yet another maybe like 
difference between her and the 

2375
01:53:11,160 --> 01:53:14,120
other red priests. 
And again, Ash Eye seems like 

2376
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:17,200
the the reason to for this 
difference. 

2377
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:21,120
Ash Eye is known for it's the 
readiest supply of gems perhaps 

2378
01:53:21,120 --> 01:53:24,480
in the entire world. 
It's it's a one of the reasons 

2379
01:53:24,480 --> 01:53:27,520
traders are willing to go there 
despite all the darkness and 

2380
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:31,880
sketchy things that go on there 
is there's big profit to be made

2381
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:34,200
because of the food supply issue
that they have there. 

2382
01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:38,720
They are willing to trade golds 
and gems in great amounts for 

2383
01:53:38,720 --> 01:53:42,280
food because it's hard to grow 
food there because something's 

2384
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:46,040
wrong that region, something's 
very magically wrong with that 

2385
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:49,680
region. 
So gemstone enchantment being a 

2386
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:53,840
like a common ish thing and Asha
makes so much sense given all 

2387
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:57,680
that right? 
If not Asha, I still think that 

2388
01:53:57,960 --> 01:54:01,160
she may have searched far and 
wide to get this special Ruby. 

2389
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:04,360
Asha makes a lot of sense, but 
she talks about having come 

2390
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:09,000
across with this chest, this 
running low, right? 

2391
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:12,600
And it was in the context of the
different potions and powders 

2392
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:17,120
and stuff that she had hidden. 
And she, she kind of said my, my

2393
01:54:17,120 --> 01:54:19,840
real spells will be enough. 
My, my power here is greater. 

2394
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:22,320
She, she wasn't too worried 
about running out of some of her

2395
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:26,320
tricks, but she knows how to 
make them, but doesn't have the 

2396
01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:27,880
rare ingredients, is what she 
said. 

2397
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:31,760
And so she may have had to go 
far and wide to get these rare 

2398
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:34,360
ingredients. 
She might have got the Rubio on 

2399
01:54:34,360 --> 01:54:35,800
the way. 
Yeah, that's true. 

2400
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:37,280
The magical gem might have been 
one of those things. 

2401
01:54:37,280 --> 01:54:38,680
Yeah, absolutely. 
I like that idea. 

2402
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:41,080
So let's talk about the 
influence on Stannis. 

2403
01:54:41,080 --> 01:54:42,720
We've got a few things left for 
this episode. 

2404
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:46,000
Now, she doesn't know Stannis 
until she gets there, but she 

2405
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:48,400
had seen him in visions or kind 
of had an idea of what the 

2406
01:54:48,400 --> 01:54:49,960
person she was looking for would
be like. 

2407
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:52,880
Now, clearly she got some things
wrong, but Stannis does have an 

2408
01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:55,640
awful lot of qualities that that
Danny has like in in Danny has 

2409
01:54:55,640 --> 01:54:58,920
them in Greater quantity or the 
quality even. 

2410
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:01,000
But Stannis does echo a lot of 
those things. 

2411
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:03,080
And of course Dragonstone is 
part of that, which we'll talk 

2412
01:55:03,080 --> 01:55:05,840
in a minute. 
So she but she knew what to do. 

2413
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:08,840
She knew how to work her way up 
the hierarchy. 

2414
01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:12,760
She started with Solis kind of a
weak link, maybe the the the 

2415
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:17,920
queen, the impressionable person
that's a little desperate 

2416
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:21,200
because she wants to have 
children and she's traumatized 

2417
01:55:21,200 --> 01:55:23,080
by having miscarriages and all 
this. 

2418
01:55:23,080 --> 01:55:24,880
She badly wants to have a son. 
So there's this. 

2419
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:27,640
She's kind of a mark, you know, 
in that sense from a religious 

2420
01:55:27,640 --> 01:55:30,480
perspective, like there's 
there's my in route and then she

2421
01:55:30,480 --> 01:55:33,120
works on Solis for a while. 
Solis is converted. 

2422
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:34,600
That gives her an in route with 
Stannis. 

2423
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:37,800
These are things she had to have
learned back in either from the 

2424
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:40,640
red priests or from this is more
likely a red priest thing than 

2425
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:42,640
an ash eye thing. 
Sorcery. 

2426
01:55:42,800 --> 01:55:45,320
I tend to lean towards the ash 
eye, but just like how to 

2427
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:47,920
infiltrate a hierarchy that 
sounds like red priest business,

2428
01:55:47,920 --> 01:55:50,200
like how to convert people and, 
and all that. 

2429
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:54,640
Now Stannis is iron and because 
of that, we're told he will 

2430
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:57,720
break before he bends. 
I have recently read the Red 

2431
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:00,520
rising series, which I love. 
Just one of my favorite become 

2432
01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:01,760
one of my favorite series of all
time. 

2433
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:04,280
And it's a great parallel here 
because she's red. 

2434
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:08,120
But the, the metaphor and this 
guy Pierce Brown, who wrote Red 

2435
01:56:08,120 --> 01:56:10,360
rising, heavily influenced by 
George RR Martin. 

2436
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:13,440
There's so many Easter eggs and,
and, and homages to George, and 

2437
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:15,440
one of them is this. 
He's like, well, he uses that 

2438
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:17,240
metaphor of iron. 
We'll break before he says, 

2439
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:19,880
well, you need to become a 
blacksmith and soften the metal,

2440
01:56:19,880 --> 01:56:22,160
then it will bend. 
He's like, oh, great response to

2441
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:23,880
that. 
And that's what Melisandre does.

2442
01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:27,200
She's a freaking maid of fire. 
She softens the iron that is 

2443
01:56:27,200 --> 01:56:29,720
Stannis in order to move him and
get him to do things. 

2444
01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:33,480
The only other person we really 
see soften him is Davos, and in 

2445
01:56:33,480 --> 01:56:37,760
a different way, like Davos 
doesn't get him to cheat on his 

2446
01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:39,600
wife, you know, or to sleep with
him. 

2447
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:41,640
You know, it's a whole different
form of relationship, y'all. 

2448
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:45,280
So it's, there's things that 
Melisandre gets and to do that 

2449
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:47,320
no one else can do. 
And I think it's this metaphor 

2450
01:56:47,320 --> 01:56:49,000
works really well. 
It's because she's the fire, 

2451
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:51,840
he's the iron. 
And only a hot fire hot enough 

2452
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:54,400
to soften iron will, will move a
man of iron. 

2453
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:59,520
Davos can get Stannis to think 
about what's really right and 

2454
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:01,680
change what he was going to do 
based on it. 

2455
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:05,480
Melisandre can get Stannis to do
things even though he knows 

2456
01:57:05,480 --> 01:57:07,200
they're not really right. 
Does that make sense? 

2457
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,680
Not that she only always does 
that, but that's the influence 

2458
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:14,480
that she, the potential 
sometimes 'cause that that was, 

2459
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:17,360
she did convince him, I think, 
to go to the Wall, right? 

2460
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:19,560
Like, don't become keen to save 
the Kingdom. 

2461
01:57:19,560 --> 01:57:21,400
Save the Kingdom. 
Davos brings the idea. 

2462
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:23,000
And Melisandre? 
Yep, you're right. 

2463
01:57:23,120 --> 01:57:24,840
And that was like, oh, you agree
with me? 

2464
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:25,520
Hell, yeah. 
All right. 

2465
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:28,200
So yeah, yeah. 
It was a great moment because 

2466
01:57:28,200 --> 01:57:30,400
she's like, oh, Davos was like, 
oh, all right, I didn't expect 

2467
01:57:30,400 --> 01:57:33,200
to have your support. 
But that's going to make sure 

2468
01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:35,520
that means we're definitely 
going to convince him if both of

2469
01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:38,080
us are both the angels on 
Stannis's shoulder agree, that's

2470
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:40,120
probably going to probably going
to move him. 

2471
01:57:40,360 --> 01:57:41,920
And indeed, it did. 
So. 

2472
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:44,880
And the other. 
The other thing is interesting 

2473
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:46,400
is Stannis is also a little bit 
of a mark. 

2474
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:48,840
Not as much as Solis, perhaps, 
but Stannis hates the Seven 

2475
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:51,760
because of his parents drowned 
in front of him or nearby. 

2476
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:56,280
And that's just like he's got 
the kind of highborn pride that 

2477
01:57:56,280 --> 01:57:59,440
you can actually reject the gods
for the most people just don't 

2478
01:57:59,440 --> 01:58:02,400
have that kind of like it's too 
much to reject the gods. 

2479
01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:05,160
Like, I'm not, I'm not a king. 
I can't do that, you know? 

2480
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:08,360
But he, he's that got that kind 
of strength, that pride, that 

2481
01:58:08,360 --> 01:58:10,880
stubbornness to do such a thing 
like that, even though in the 

2482
01:58:10,880 --> 01:58:13,360
face of so many of his followers
being against it, right? 

2483
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:15,560
Most people just wouldn't have 
the the guts to do something 

2484
01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:17,160
like that. 
So, but yeah. 

2485
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:19,880
And let's let's be honest, 
Stannis is absolutely moved by 

2486
01:58:19,880 --> 01:58:22,840
the way she looks like that's a 
thing, right? 

2487
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:24,400
Her appearance moves. 
Stannis. 

2488
01:58:24,400 --> 01:58:27,280
He's attracted to her. 
He won't admit it, but everyone 

2489
01:58:27,280 --> 01:58:29,120
knows it. 
You and I, you know it, I know 

2490
01:58:29,120 --> 01:58:29,840
it. 
We all know it. 

2491
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:31,600
It's it's part of it. 
And that's part of his. 

2492
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:33,640
It's part of her value, her 
demonstrating value. 

2493
01:58:33,640 --> 01:58:36,920
She has powers, she has ability,
she has skills, but she also has

2494
01:58:37,040 --> 01:58:39,560
personal like charm. 
He, he, he wants to be around 

2495
01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:40,760
her. 
He wants to be accepted by her. 

2496
01:58:40,760 --> 01:58:42,320
He wants a beautiful woman to 
like him. 

2497
01:58:42,400 --> 01:58:45,600
You know, this is a very basic 
thing that you might not apply 

2498
01:58:45,600 --> 01:58:48,400
that kind of thinking to 
Stannis, but you should, in my 

2499
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:52,000
opinion, he is, he is unloved. 
As much as he talks about how I 

2500
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:53,800
don't, I don't know why I don't 
need love. 

2501
01:58:54,000 --> 01:58:56,160
Why can I, why would I care 
about something I've never had? 

2502
01:58:56,160 --> 01:58:59,360
All that stuff, you know. 
But he's a bitter, he does want 

2503
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:01,800
to be loved, you know, and this 
isn't love. 

2504
01:59:01,800 --> 01:59:03,560
But what does Stannis know about
real love? 

2505
01:59:03,560 --> 01:59:05,480
He just is as close as he gets 
to it. 

2506
01:59:05,480 --> 01:59:07,960
He's not getting it from Solis 
and he didn't get it from his 

2507
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:10,160
brothers. 
She knows that's lacking and and

2508
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:11,960
she fills that for him to move 
him. 

2509
01:59:11,960 --> 01:59:13,240
That's the that's, that's the 
melt. 

2510
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:16,240
That's the softening of the iron
that I'm talking about South in 

2511
01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:21,320
terms of preparations, like did 
she see Stannis or just the 

2512
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:23,200
place? 
Did she see Solis? 

2513
01:59:23,200 --> 01:59:24,520
What are these things she see in
the fire? 

2514
01:59:24,520 --> 01:59:29,360
There's so many possibilities 
because as I said multiple times

2515
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:32,320
in this episode, going through 
all her chapters or the chapter 

2516
01:59:32,320 --> 01:59:34,600
she's in, because she's only has
the one, right, all the things 

2517
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:36,320
she says. 
There's so many times where she 

2518
01:59:36,320 --> 01:59:39,840
predicts something accurately. 
Little things, big things. 

2519
01:59:40,320 --> 01:59:43,200
So did she. 
It's, it's, it's not a big thing

2520
01:59:43,200 --> 01:59:46,560
to think that maybe she saw 
Stannis or Solis or whatever 

2521
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:48,600
before she came to Westeros. 
And that's part of why she came 

2522
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:50,920
in the 1st place, because 
something kicked it off. 

2523
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:55,360
Something, some straw that broke
the camel's back, some final 

2524
01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:57,960
vision. 
Something happened that made 

2525
01:59:58,200 --> 02:00:01,560
Melisandre say, OK, I got to go 
to Westeros. 

2526
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:04,920
Some final moment, some final 
confluence of events, or maybe 

2527
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:07,920
whether it was confluence or 
some singular event, I don't 

2528
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:10,560
know, but something made her 
finally decide to set sail for 

2529
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:14,560
Westeros, and she went to 
Dragonstone, not anywhere else. 

2530
02:00:14,560 --> 02:00:17,000
She didn't go to Drift Mark, she
didn't go to King's Landing, she

2531
02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:18,640
didn't go to the North, she 
didn't go to the Wall. 

2532
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:21,360
She didn't go to wherever else. 
She went to Dragonstone very 

2533
02:00:21,360 --> 02:00:23,600
specifically. 
Let's have a quote under Dreams 

2534
02:00:23,600 --> 02:00:25,280
of Dragonstone to kick off this 
section. 

2535
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:29,280
He could see her, the 
heart-shaped face, the red eyes,

2536
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:34,240
the long coppery hair, her red 
gowns moving like flames as she 

2537
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:37,160
walked, a swirl of silk and 
satin. 

2538
02:00:37,720 --> 02:00:40,240
She had come from a shy in the 
east. 

2539
02:00:40,240 --> 02:00:44,840
She had come to Dragonstone and 
Juan Solis and her Queens men 

2540
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:50,160
for her alien God, and then the 
King Stannis Baratheon himself. 

2541
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:55,680
He had gone so far as to put the
fiery heart on his banners, the 

2542
02:00:55,680 --> 02:01:00,600
fiery heart of Relore, Lord of 
Light and God of flame and 

2543
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:03,880
shadow. 
George said back in 2012 that 

2544
02:01:03,880 --> 02:01:06,360
she came on her own. 
She was not sent. 

2545
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:09,480
So when we asked the question of
whether she was sent to Ash I or

2546
02:01:09,480 --> 02:01:12,000
not by Red Temple hierarchy, we 
know that's a possibility. 

2547
02:01:12,240 --> 02:01:14,360
But she was not sent by anybody 
but herself. 

2548
02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:19,400
And perhaps what she saw in her 
visions and what George actually

2549
02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:22,080
said was that she, quote, has 
her own agenda. 

2550
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:25,800
I mean, it's not some deep dark 
agenda from seeing inside her 

2551
02:01:25,800 --> 02:01:28,080
head. 
We know that she's sincere in 

2552
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:29,800
some things, but she's 
definitely, there's definitely 

2553
02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:31,760
some things she's doing that 
maybe haven't fully been 

2554
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:34,160
revealed as to her agenda. 
My best guess is pretty 

2555
02:01:34,160 --> 02:01:37,320
straightforward. 
She saw things in her visions 

2556
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,000
that convinced her to come to 
Westeros, to Dragon Son 

2557
02:01:41,000 --> 02:01:43,480
specifically, that other Red 
priests weren't seeing. 

2558
02:01:43,680 --> 02:01:45,760
If other Red priests were having
these visions, they would have 

2559
02:01:45,760 --> 02:01:48,320
conferred, commiserated, said 
yeah, I saw that too. 

2560
02:01:48,320 --> 02:01:50,840
I saw something like that. 
They might have compared notes, 

2561
02:01:51,320 --> 02:01:53,200
but no one else was on board 
with her. 

2562
02:01:53,360 --> 02:01:55,920
She came alone. 
That by itself is very 

2563
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:56,960
interesting. 
How does she? 

2564
02:01:57,440 --> 02:01:59,800
How is she? 
Both very powerful within her 

2565
02:01:59,800 --> 02:02:01,400
order. 
One of the most powerful Flame 

2566
02:02:01,400 --> 02:02:04,320
readers, if not the most, yet 
unable to convince anyone else 

2567
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:07,520
of what she's seeing. 
That is a big mystery that I 

2568
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:10,280
assume is going to be revealed 
at some point, but it's there's 

2569
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:13,080
got to be something to it. 
Like she is wrong about it being

2570
02:02:13,080 --> 02:02:14,080
standard. 
Maybe that's what it was. 

2571
02:02:14,080 --> 02:02:15,160
They're like, no, you're just 
wrong. 

2572
02:02:15,160 --> 02:02:18,000
Like we that's wrong. 
But is it really that simple 

2573
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:20,360
that just they're like, Nah, I 
can't be that guy, you know? 

2574
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:24,080
Because she was wrong about some
piece of it, it was easier for 

2575
02:02:24,080 --> 02:02:27,280
them to reject the entirety, 
just like she was wrong about it

2576
02:02:27,280 --> 02:02:30,320
being Arya. 
So John's like it's easier for 

2577
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:32,400
John to dismiss other thing that
she's saying. 

2578
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:34,720
Beware of the daggers in the 
night or whatever, you know. 

2579
02:02:35,200 --> 02:02:38,320
So. 
So maybe they knew from some 

2580
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:41,760
vision or something happening 
that some other piece that she 

2581
02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:44,520
predicted was wrong. 
Especially if they had seen some

2582
02:02:44,520 --> 02:02:46,720
of the other stuff and had their
own interpretations. 

2583
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:50,000
And for a minute she got their 
attention but then turned out to

2584
02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:52,920
be wrong about some peace. 
No, no, they just missed it all.

2585
02:02:52,920 --> 02:02:55,760
But she still knows or believes.
Yeah. 

2586
02:02:56,520 --> 02:03:00,240
Etcetera, etcetera. 
So more recently apparently 

2587
02:03:00,240 --> 02:03:04,360
since she's come to Westeros is 
when Benaro and Macoro and some 

2588
02:03:04,360 --> 02:03:06,840
other red priests potentially 
have started preaching that 

2589
02:03:06,840 --> 02:03:09,400
Daenerys is his Ori. 
Like that wasn't happening when 

2590
02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:13,040
Melisandre first came to 
Westeros, so that is happened 

2591
02:03:13,080 --> 02:03:16,600
since then. 
So Melisandre was a little ahead

2592
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:19,600
of the curve on realizing that 
the time is now, but she's 

2593
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:23,720
identified the wrong figure 
that's going to lead humanity 

2594
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:25,800
against the darkness or that 
will be vital, Although maybe 

2595
02:03:25,800 --> 02:03:27,600
they'll both be vital. 
Stannis is doing things that 

2596
02:03:27,600 --> 02:03:29,640
matter. 
There is a singular figure. 

2597
02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:31,520
Yeah, that is a whole nother 
ball of wax. 

2598
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:33,640
I totally agree with it. 
There is a good reason to think 

2599
02:03:33,640 --> 02:03:35,920
there's multiple Azores highs. 
That would explain a lot. 

2600
02:03:36,240 --> 02:03:39,800
Mache and I have been on beating
that drum for a long time and it

2601
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:42,160
certainly applies here. 
You can find I think an episode 

2602
02:03:42,160 --> 02:03:44,520
if you're a Patreon only Or is 
it on public? 

2603
02:03:44,840 --> 02:03:48,080
I don't recall it was. 
It was a panel we did at Econ of

2604
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:50,600
Thrones a long time ago, and a 
lot of those are not published 

2605
02:03:50,600 --> 02:03:53,400
as regular episodes anymore 
because the audio quality is not

2606
02:03:53,400 --> 02:03:55,880
as good on some of those. 
But you can definitely get it. 

2607
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:57,960
If you're a patron, I think you 
might be able to get it. 

2608
02:03:57,960 --> 02:04:01,040
Otherwise, I forget, yeah. 
That's what you would look up 

2609
02:04:01,040 --> 02:04:04,640
the many faced Azora High, yeah,
through Westeros and see if you 

2610
02:04:04,640 --> 02:04:07,600
can find it. 
But I think that's the main 

2611
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:10,080
place we've talked about that. 
If you have trouble finding it 

2612
02:04:10,080 --> 02:04:12,240
or any other episode, always 
feel free to reach out to us. 

2613
02:04:12,240 --> 02:04:13,640
We can point you in the right 
direction. 

2614
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:17,680
And if we look at mistakes Mel 
Saunders made, as much as I've 

2615
02:04:17,680 --> 02:04:19,880
pointed out how many times she's
been right, obviously she's been

2616
02:04:19,880 --> 02:04:21,320
wrong. 
And if we look at some of those 

2617
02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:24,480
mistakes, we've got to get an 
idea of how other people might 

2618
02:04:24,480 --> 02:04:26,360
not have trusted her and said or
they're not seeing the things 

2619
02:04:26,360 --> 02:04:29,640
she is like, well, I, I don't, I
can't corroborate your vision. 

2620
02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:32,600
So I'm not going to go. 
I'm not going to follow you. 

2621
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:35,480
Like she saw it like you. 
You brought up earlier, Sean, 

2622
02:04:35,480 --> 02:04:38,240
she saw blood Raven and Bran and
didn't know what she was seeing.

2623
02:04:38,520 --> 02:04:40,640
She saw the horrors at Heart 
Home to some extent. 

2624
02:04:40,640 --> 02:04:43,600
We talked, we quoted her and we 
did our Heart Home episode and 

2625
02:04:43,600 --> 02:04:45,040
she didn't exactly know what she
was seeing. 

2626
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:47,080
But we had a better idea as 
readers because we've seen some 

2627
02:04:47,080 --> 02:04:49,920
things that she hasn't. 
She sees the towers crumbling 

2628
02:04:49,920 --> 02:04:54,200
into the sea and isn't sure, but
constantly says, yeah, E watch, 

2629
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:58,120
which gives us an insight into 
how she she gives confidence and

2630
02:04:58,120 --> 02:04:59,200
things that she's not confident 
in. 

2631
02:04:59,200 --> 02:05:01,160
And she's like, OK, well, what 
other things have you said 

2632
02:05:01,160 --> 02:05:03,480
confidently that you don't 
actually have confidence in? 

2633
02:05:04,040 --> 02:05:05,520
And we're pretty sure it's not E
watch. 

2634
02:05:06,280 --> 02:05:07,800
It could be, but it might not 
be. 

2635
02:05:07,800 --> 02:05:09,960
And she and her and her lack of 
certainty is telling. 

2636
02:05:09,960 --> 02:05:13,680
And of course she mistook Alice 
Karstark for or Arya for Alice 

2637
02:05:13,680 --> 02:05:16,520
Karstark, whatever backwards. 
So that wasn't so much as a 

2638
02:05:16,520 --> 02:05:17,800
mistake as it was a missed 
guest. 

2639
02:05:17,800 --> 02:05:19,280
You can call that a mistake. 
She shouldn't have been so 

2640
02:05:19,280 --> 02:05:20,840
confident. 
But she was right that it was an

2641
02:05:20,840 --> 02:05:22,800
important person and she saw the
part. 

2642
02:05:22,800 --> 02:05:23,960
She got a lot of the details 
right. 

2643
02:05:23,960 --> 02:05:27,440
She was just kind of wrong about
the identity and this might be a

2644
02:05:27,440 --> 02:05:29,120
sign as to how she thinks. 
She's like, oh, who else could 

2645
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:30,520
it be? 
She's it was it was kind of 

2646
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:31,840
illogical. 
She's like, who else could it 

2647
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:33,320
be? 
It's a girl in grey on a dying. 

2648
02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:34,600
What's got to be Aria? 
Like what? 

2649
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:37,000
Why does it have to be Aria? 
It's like. 

2650
02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:40,440
What? 
It doesn't have to be, but the 

2651
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:43,440
there is a strong likelihood. 
It makes sense in a lot of ways.

2652
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:46,240
Kind of like I was supposing 
that she may have just seen 

2653
02:05:46,240 --> 02:05:49,280
those purple crystals laid out 
and pieced together. 

2654
02:05:49,280 --> 02:05:52,040
I'm looking for danger. 
The Stranglers made out of 

2655
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:53,520
purple crystals. 
OK. 

2656
02:05:53,560 --> 02:05:55,880
Maybe this is the danger I'm 
facing with someone poisoning 

2657
02:05:55,880 --> 02:05:57,040
crust in my point. 
Yeah. 

2658
02:05:57,200 --> 02:06:01,600
She could get one little bit and
make a lot of solid conclusions.

2659
02:06:01,880 --> 02:06:03,600
It didn't have to be true. 
Right. 

2660
02:06:03,880 --> 02:06:08,280
I wish I maybe in fact, maybe 
she was seeing a vision of 

2661
02:06:08,280 --> 02:06:12,600
Joffrey being killed and got 
lucky, right, You know, but but 

2662
02:06:12,600 --> 02:06:17,040
you can see how sometimes you 
know, what's most likely to be 

2663
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:21,320
true usually ends up being true.
And you'd be right a lot of 

2664
02:06:21,320 --> 02:06:22,840
times. 
And especially when you're like 

2665
02:06:22,840 --> 02:06:25,520
trying to protect your life or 
exude confidence and power, all 

2666
02:06:25,520 --> 02:06:28,280
these other things that it's, 
it's worth it. 

2667
02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:31,720
The times that she is confident 
when she shouldn't be is worth 

2668
02:06:31,720 --> 02:06:34,440
it for the times that she is 
right or that she maintains her 

2669
02:06:34,440 --> 02:06:36,000
position of power and everything
else. 

2670
02:06:36,360 --> 02:06:38,160
But every now and then it bites 
her, you know? 

2671
02:06:38,280 --> 02:06:39,560
Sure. 
Yeah, I like that. 

2672
02:06:40,600 --> 02:06:44,160
Here's a quote. 
Candidate for what might 

2673
02:06:44,160 --> 02:06:47,640
resemble, or the basic idea of 
what she might have been seeing 

2674
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:50,280
in her flames before she came to
Westeros. 

2675
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:53,760
He is the Lord's chosen, the 
Warrior of Fire. 

2676
02:06:54,120 --> 02:06:56,640
I have seen him leading the 
fight against the dark. 

2677
02:06:56,840 --> 02:07:00,880
I have seen it in the flames. 
And as we've said, like she's 

2678
02:07:00,880 --> 02:07:04,840
had so many things to be 
confident in, why not believe 

2679
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:07,640
her? 
So it's a dichotomy. 

2680
02:07:07,640 --> 02:07:11,440
Like, yeah, she's got confidence
because she sees so many things 

2681
02:07:11,440 --> 02:07:15,080
other people don't, but she's 
maybe not great at the 

2682
02:07:15,080 --> 02:07:16,840
interpretation. 
Like maybe the best at seeing 

2683
02:07:16,840 --> 02:07:19,120
things, but not the best at 
interpretations of what those 

2684
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:22,200
things are. 
So maybe not enough humility 

2685
02:07:22,200 --> 02:07:24,520
there. 
Although I got to say these 

2686
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:27,400
things that she's making 
mistakes with, she might be 

2687
02:07:27,400 --> 02:07:29,680
stretching the limits of her 
power, right? 

2688
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:35,520
I can see like when she's on at 
home, if you will, and looking 

2689
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:39,080
for things that are more 
standard or normal or expected 

2690
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:42,160
or or observable. 
She might hit more often. 

2691
02:07:42,280 --> 02:07:44,880
But she's reaching. 
She's in like a new land 

2692
02:07:45,200 --> 02:07:51,200
surrounded by new people looking
for this big power future event.

2693
02:07:51,600 --> 02:07:54,200
It she's just in a realm where 
she's more likely to get it 

2694
02:07:54,200 --> 02:07:55,320
wrong. 
Does that make sense? 

2695
02:07:55,320 --> 02:07:58,640
It's like, I don't know if this 
is a big example, but maybe a 

2696
02:07:58,640 --> 02:08:03,160
sports commentator or a gambler 
that usually studies football 

2697
02:08:03,280 --> 02:08:05,600
and suddenly they're being asked
to look at basketball. 

2698
02:08:06,160 --> 02:08:08,800
They have a lot of groundwork. 
They're going to get a lot of 

2699
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:11,440
stuff right, but they're in this
new environment that's going to 

2700
02:08:11,440 --> 02:08:14,160
make them more likely to make 
get some things wrong, but they 

2701
02:08:14,160 --> 02:08:16,000
might still be doing better than
anyone else. 

2702
02:08:16,080 --> 02:08:18,960
You know, but. 
Difference in better than anyone

2703
02:08:18,960 --> 02:08:20,760
else is not the same as. 
Perfect, right. 

2704
02:08:20,760 --> 02:08:23,320
And some people are doing it 
better than her in that Benero 

2705
02:08:23,320 --> 02:08:27,000
believes Danny is Azor High, 
which I think that's a lot more 

2706
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:28,960
likely to be right than Stannis,
even if, yeah, maybe there are 

2707
02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:31,000
multiple Azor High figures, but 
I still think Danny's more 

2708
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:33,840
important. 
And where did this come from? 

2709
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:35,320
Like, is he having visions all 
of a sudden? 

2710
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:37,600
We have we have an even less 
idea of where he got this idea, 

2711
02:08:37,600 --> 02:08:40,040
even though it does seem more 
true, but it's it's just by the 

2712
02:08:40,040 --> 02:08:42,800
fact that Melisandre hasn't had 
this realization has never 

2713
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:46,920
perceived Danny at all by itself
is a showing her blind spot or 

2714
02:08:46,920 --> 02:08:49,280
showing that she has blind 
spots, even though there's 

2715
02:08:49,280 --> 02:08:51,200
plenty of other examples. 
That's probably the biggest one.

2716
02:08:51,400 --> 02:08:55,440
Now that the cross training also
might explain why she got ahead 

2717
02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:57,160
like the fact that she knows 
shadow binding is other things. 

2718
02:08:57,160 --> 02:09:00,800
That might be why she A has more
confidence in her abilities and 

2719
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,480
sees things that other people 
don't and B why they some of 

2720
02:09:04,480 --> 02:09:07,560
them don't believe her or don't 
didn't follow her because she's 

2721
02:09:07,560 --> 02:09:09,840
a little too rogue. 
Perhaps in her her cross 

2722
02:09:09,840 --> 02:09:12,320
training or her overlap. 
Maybe they don't trust some of 

2723
02:09:12,320 --> 02:09:14,080
those non relore elements. 
I don't know. 

2724
02:09:14,200 --> 02:09:18,120
I could see that she stayed in 
Ash Eye for a century or more 

2725
02:09:18,200 --> 02:09:22,760
until the flames, just the thing
she was seeing told her that now

2726
02:09:22,760 --> 02:09:26,160
is the time or now is it's 
starting or it's about to start.

2727
02:09:26,160 --> 02:09:28,560
Time to make your move, get 
ahead of things rather than 

2728
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:30,160
react to them as they're 
happening. 

2729
02:09:30,320 --> 02:09:32,760
Certainly by then she would have
graduated, whatever that means 

2730
02:09:32,760 --> 02:09:36,120
from acolyte status and gone up 
the hierarchy, whatever that 

2731
02:09:36,120 --> 02:09:40,280
even is, and in in addition 
learned all these things at Ash 

2732
02:09:40,280 --> 02:09:42,080
Eye. 
But she doesn't have followers, 

2733
02:09:42,080 --> 02:09:43,720
which by itself is really 
interesting that she doesn't 

2734
02:09:43,720 --> 02:09:45,480
have followers. 
That by itself continues to 

2735
02:09:45,480 --> 02:09:48,200
baffle me and make me curious, 
and I wonder what why that? 

2736
02:09:48,200 --> 02:09:50,920
Is she might have had a glass 
ceiling matter. 

2737
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:53,800
Realize I'm only ever going to 
get so high in this religion. 

2738
02:09:53,800 --> 02:09:55,920
They're never going to give me 
my own followers. 

2739
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:59,000
I'm never going to be the high 
priest, etcetera, etcetera. 

2740
02:09:59,240 --> 02:10:01,720
I'm striking out on my own. 
Yeah, I think it is interesting 

2741
02:10:01,720 --> 02:10:03,680
to think about. 
Like, yes, in Game of Thrones, 

2742
02:10:03,680 --> 02:10:08,240
the show, we see Kimvara, right?
In the books, we don't see 

2743
02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:12,440
another red priestess that is 
high in the order of things. 

2744
02:10:12,440 --> 02:10:15,240
Whether they exist or not, we 
just can't say, right? 

2745
02:10:15,440 --> 02:10:18,280
So I think it's as good of a 
reason as any, right? 

2746
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:20,400
You're right. 
Yeah, Like where are the other 

2747
02:10:20,600 --> 02:10:24,360
ranking female high priests? 
I mean, we've only got 5 total. 

2748
02:10:24,360 --> 02:10:27,360
So like, yeah, four men, one 
woman. 

2749
02:10:27,360 --> 02:10:30,080
It's not necessarily a pattern, 
but it could be. 

2750
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:32,840
It could be. 
When Canvaro was in the show, we

2751
02:10:32,840 --> 02:10:36,000
didn't get any word of God from 
George. 

2752
02:10:36,000 --> 02:10:38,840
It was like, that's wrong or 
anything like that. 

2753
02:10:38,920 --> 02:10:41,120
I think there are lots of high 
priestesses. 

2754
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:44,080
I just don't think that 
necessarily they are in the 

2755
02:10:44,680 --> 02:10:47,480
upper echelons. 
Yeah, I agree. 

2756
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:50,920
And even if there's lots, I'm 
making numbers up, but let's say

2757
02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:56,400
there's 50 or 60, there might be
500 male and only 50 or 60 

2758
02:10:56,400 --> 02:10:57,840
females. 
Yeah, right. 

2759
02:10:58,080 --> 02:10:59,640
Yeah, that's that's not unlikely
too. 

2760
02:10:59,640 --> 02:11:04,360
Like kind of like how many 
ladies versus Lords there are 

2761
02:11:04,360 --> 02:11:06,400
for a lot have been for a lot of
these castles, like there's not 

2762
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:08,280
none. 
Well, in a few cases there are, 

2763
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:13,800
but yeah, the disparity is huge.
So Melisandre, if we think about

2764
02:11:15,000 --> 02:11:17,720
possibly where the disconnect is
and what she saw in her visions 

2765
02:11:17,720 --> 02:11:21,000
versus what the reality is or 
the reality as we perceive it, 

2766
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:23,720
is that she didn't see a person 
so much. 

2767
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:25,480
She did see Stannis fighting the
other. 

2768
02:11:25,480 --> 02:11:27,160
She didn't see Stannis leading 
the fight against the dark 

2769
02:11:27,160 --> 02:11:29,160
because that is going to happen.
It's just that he's not the 

2770
02:11:29,160 --> 02:11:30,840
going to going to be the one 
that wins it. 

2771
02:11:31,680 --> 02:11:33,480
And she saw where this person 
came from. 

2772
02:11:33,480 --> 02:11:37,080
She may have even seen the 
eventual savior at Dragonstone 

2773
02:11:37,280 --> 02:11:39,640
and mistaken Stannis for Danny 
because she had already assumed 

2774
02:11:39,640 --> 02:11:41,920
it was Stannis because of he's 
the guy that lives there. 

2775
02:11:42,280 --> 02:11:47,480
He has some Targaryen heritage, 
salt and smoke, his dragonstone,

2776
02:11:47,480 --> 02:11:49,760
blah blah blah. 
So you can see why she reached 

2777
02:11:49,760 --> 02:11:52,680
that conclusion because he does 
check off the boxes. 

2778
02:11:52,680 --> 02:11:53,920
It's just that Danny does it 
better. 

2779
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:56,720
And in some ways, even though 
Banero or Macor or whoever might

2780
02:11:56,720 --> 02:12:01,440
be looking at Danny, they still 
might be making a mistake that 

2781
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:06,280
Melisandre is also making, is 
overlooking John, and her 

2782
02:12:06,280 --> 02:12:09,160
mistake of going after Stannis 
is still getting her closer to 

2783
02:12:09,160 --> 02:12:11,040
John. 
She might still come to a 

2784
02:12:11,040 --> 02:12:14,080
revelation that they're missing 
quicker than they will, you 

2785
02:12:14,080 --> 02:12:15,240
know? 
It's leading her in the right 

2786
02:12:15,240 --> 02:12:17,480
direction if it even if she 
hasn't, it hasn't clicked for 

2787
02:12:17,480 --> 02:12:18,920
her yet. 
Yeah, 'cause you really, as you 

2788
02:12:18,920 --> 02:12:21,240
probably noticed when you were 
rereading, you saw she's like, I

2789
02:12:21,240 --> 02:12:24,000
keep just looking. 
I keep asking for a vision of my

2790
02:12:24,000 --> 02:12:27,120
love, my savior and all I get is
snow capital S like. 

2791
02:12:27,880 --> 02:12:29,520
That was something I did notice 
on the 1st. 

2792
02:12:29,520 --> 02:12:33,680
Three, yeah, Capital S, you say?
Yeah, that that uppercase S 

2793
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:37,560
really does a lot of work there.
So, yeah. 

2794
02:12:37,560 --> 02:12:42,560
So that's a big deal and big 
possibilities that she saw a lot

2795
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:47,000
of Dragonstone in her visions. 
And Dragonstone is so like epic,

2796
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:50,840
like the volcanoes, the 
gargoyles and the carvings and 

2797
02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:52,240
everything. 
It's such like, you could see 

2798
02:12:52,240 --> 02:12:55,160
why that would stand out in what
she's seeing. 

2799
02:12:55,160 --> 02:12:58,000
That would really be distinct 
amongst so many other things 

2800
02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:01,000
that might not be so unique. 
You know, like Dragonstone is 

2801
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:02,720
very like, what else looks like 
that? 

2802
02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:05,240
You know, very little in the 
world is like that. 

2803
02:13:05,280 --> 02:13:09,560
I can imagine her or maybe even 
some other Flame reader having a

2804
02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:13,560
vision of Dragonstone and taking
it metaphorically, not 

2805
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:16,360
realizing, oh, that's an actual 
building, that's actually what 

2806
02:13:16,360 --> 02:13:17,760
it looks like. 
You know, they might have 

2807
02:13:17,760 --> 02:13:20,520
misinterpreted some of that 
because they thought it was a 

2808
02:13:20,520 --> 02:13:23,640
metaphorical image that 
represented something else. 

2809
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:27,520
But when she realized, oh wait, 
that's actually a place I need 

2810
02:13:27,520 --> 02:13:30,880
to go there, right? 
Yes, yes, I like that. 

2811
02:13:31,360 --> 02:13:33,800
All right, so our last little 
bit here is identity theories, a

2812
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:35,760
couple ideas that are thrown 
around here in the in the 

2813
02:13:35,760 --> 02:13:37,440
fandom. 
Is there evidence that she's 

2814
02:13:37,440 --> 02:13:39,920
connected to other named figures
of the past either through 

2815
02:13:39,920 --> 02:13:43,760
personal or professional or 
ancestry or or multiple of the 

2816
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:46,160
above? 
1 idea I like is that she 

2817
02:13:46,160 --> 02:13:48,600
actually does know Banero and 
Macoro and she just disagreed 

2818
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:51,240
with them. 
They like parted sometime in the

2819
02:13:51,240 --> 02:13:54,680
past because we've been told 
that Macoro is Banero's right 

2820
02:13:54,680 --> 02:13:56,560
hand man. 
Oh, maybe Mel was the left. 

2821
02:13:57,120 --> 02:14:01,000
Probably not, but I like the 
idea in theory and even though I

2822
02:14:01,000 --> 02:14:04,840
don't think it's super strong 
likelihood, the most popular 

2823
02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:07,240
theory that I think is that 
she's the daughter of Cher, a 

2824
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:10,000
sea star. 
This has its origins in egg on 

2825
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:13,560
the 5th egg sending out 
candidates sending out for 

2826
02:14:13,560 --> 02:14:15,800
knowledge about dragon lore. 
He he commissioned, he wanted 

2827
02:14:16,640 --> 02:14:18,240
Ash eye, he wanted knowledge 
from Ash eye. 

2828
02:14:18,560 --> 02:14:22,800
So maybe he sent her, but that's
just one theory of someone he 

2829
02:14:22,800 --> 02:14:24,120
might have sent. 
She might have had nothing 

2830
02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:25,560
involved. 
She might have been dead by 

2831
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:27,360
then. 
And but the ages don't line up 

2832
02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:30,240
that well either because Egg 
didn't become king until 232. 

2833
02:14:31,080 --> 02:14:34,240
Chiera would have been in her 
50s by then, which means makes 

2834
02:14:34,240 --> 02:14:36,800
it hard for her to be the mother
of someone that's taken into 

2835
02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:39,120
slavery there. 
Why was she travelling with her 

2836
02:14:39,120 --> 02:14:41,480
seven-year old daughter going 
all the way to a shy or her five

2837
02:14:41,480 --> 02:14:42,640
year old daughter? 
That doesn't make a lot of 

2838
02:14:42,640 --> 02:14:43,800
sense. 
And she couldn't have had a 

2839
02:14:43,800 --> 02:14:45,080
daughter on the trip if she's 
that old. 

2840
02:14:45,480 --> 02:14:47,960
And if that. 
And again, that would make 

2841
02:14:47,960 --> 02:14:53,480
Melisandre like 50, which isn't 
really that old, you know, so. 

2842
02:14:53,600 --> 02:14:56,320
Also, it's worth noting we don't
think Mella's not just really 

2843
02:14:56,320 --> 02:14:58,720
from a shy, we don't think she 
was born there. 

2844
02:14:58,800 --> 02:15:03,480
So yeah, Cher having gone there 
and haven't had her, that's not 

2845
02:15:03,480 --> 02:15:04,800
doesn't add up with other things
We. 

2846
02:15:04,800 --> 02:15:07,240
Sure, I guess the idea would be 
Cher was would have been taken 

2847
02:15:07,320 --> 02:15:12,200
captive, enslaved on the way, 
not in a shy and then, but still

2848
02:15:12,200 --> 02:15:14,760
it still doesn't. 
The ages don't line up super 

2849
02:15:14,760 --> 02:15:17,400
well. 
So that's one connection that 

2850
02:15:17,400 --> 02:15:19,320
that is, that exists. 
There's a couple other theories 

2851
02:15:19,320 --> 02:15:21,560
out there that I don't give as 
much credibility to. 

2852
02:15:21,560 --> 02:15:23,480
This one's possible. 
Nina also points out George was 

2853
02:15:23,480 --> 02:15:27,120
probably drawing on Melisandre 
as a as a familiar character to 

2854
02:15:27,120 --> 02:15:31,880
create the image of Melanie 
Piper, who was close, meaning 

2855
02:15:31,880 --> 02:15:34,160
probably had a relationship, a 
intimate relationship with 

2856
02:15:34,160 --> 02:15:35,960
Reyna. 
Reyna Targaryen, a favorite of 

2857
02:15:36,240 --> 02:15:37,480
hers. 
A favorite of hers, yes. 

2858
02:15:38,320 --> 02:15:40,280
There's the literally a movie 
called The Favorite. 

2859
02:15:40,280 --> 02:15:42,480
That's, yeah, the gal pals. 
Yeah, they were very likely 

2860
02:15:42,480 --> 02:15:46,000
lovers. 
Yeah, and the fiery red haired 

2861
02:15:46,000 --> 02:15:48,840
Melanie Piper. 
I mean, of course fiery is very 

2862
02:15:48,840 --> 02:15:52,480
often ascribed to people with 
red hair, but Melanie, that's 

2863
02:15:52,480 --> 02:15:54,560
what Melisandre's birth name was
apparently. 

2864
02:15:54,560 --> 02:15:57,160
So it's pretty hard not to think
of that one like as a as a 

2865
02:15:57,160 --> 02:15:59,320
parallel. 
Some people think maybe this is 

2866
02:15:59,320 --> 02:16:01,680
even the same person Melanie 
Piper somehow ended up being 

2867
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:03,680
like, yeah, it's it's kind of a 
stretch, but it's not. 

2868
02:16:03,720 --> 02:16:05,840
You can't, you can't with with 
magic and all you can't. 

2869
02:16:06,120 --> 02:16:08,520
It's hard to like, some people 
think, entirely eliminated 

2870
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:10,280
possibility. 
The daughter of Melanie Piper? 

2871
02:16:10,280 --> 02:16:11,120
I don't know. 
Yeah. 

2872
02:16:11,360 --> 02:16:12,840
It's it's not out of the. 
Question. 

2873
02:16:12,840 --> 02:16:15,520
Maybe it's Melanie's Ruby with 
her memories. 

2874
02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:17,600
Oh. 
Yeah, I mean. 

2875
02:16:17,920 --> 02:16:21,520
True enough in terms of the idea
that these are not her actual 

2876
02:16:21,520 --> 02:16:25,040
flashbacks but another person's.
And yeah, I think that is that 

2877
02:16:25,200 --> 02:16:29,840
that is the only way I think 
that you could make Melanie be 

2878
02:16:29,960 --> 02:16:33,040
Melanie Piper to me. 
Yeah, so there's other ideas 

2879
02:16:33,040 --> 02:16:36,120
connecting Quaithe to Danny and 
there's a little bit of a meta 

2880
02:16:36,120 --> 02:16:37,840
here. 
Again, I I touched on this a 

2881
02:16:37,840 --> 02:16:41,959
little bit earlier. 
Quaithe being a shadowbinder who

2882
02:16:41,959 --> 02:16:44,200
studied in episode, which means 
she has a strong association 

2883
02:16:44,200 --> 02:16:46,600
with Ashai. 
She's Quaithe of Ashai. 

2884
02:16:46,600 --> 02:16:48,920
Basically. 
Does Quaithe know Melisandre? 

2885
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:52,480
Do they know each other? 
Both could be very old, have run

2886
02:16:52,639 --> 02:16:54,200
insurance with each other in the
past. 

2887
02:16:54,200 --> 02:16:58,040
No, no reason to assume that 
Asha is a very, very, very large

2888
02:16:58,040 --> 02:16:59,799
city. 
Yes, it's low populace, but it's

2889
02:16:59,799 --> 02:17:02,320
still huge and there's no reason
to assume that people it's like,

2890
02:17:02,320 --> 02:17:05,879
oh, you're from China. 
Do you know, you know John, it's

2891
02:17:06,520 --> 02:17:08,480
like, yeah, no, I don't know 
John. 

2892
02:17:08,480 --> 02:17:09,280
From China. 
Yeah. 

2893
02:17:09,680 --> 02:17:10,840
It's like just 'cause I'm 
Chinese. 

2894
02:17:10,840 --> 02:17:12,440
Yeah. 
But still there is a chance. 

2895
02:17:12,440 --> 02:17:14,160
Like it's not just being from 
the same country. 

2896
02:17:14,160 --> 02:17:16,280
There are shadowbinders. 
That's a much more exclusive 

2897
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:17,520
club. 
I think so. 

2898
02:17:17,600 --> 02:17:21,280
And since Quaithe is talking to 
Daenerys through visions or 

2899
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:23,799
maybe through glass candles, 
which by the way, the glass 

2900
02:17:23,799 --> 02:17:27,760
candle is perhaps a little 
similar mechanism to the Ruby 

2901
02:17:27,760 --> 02:17:31,639
that's being used as a, as a, a 
fire of the earth concentrated 

2902
02:17:31,639 --> 02:17:36,799
into a hardened form, because 
glass candles are Obsidian, you 

2903
02:17:36,799 --> 02:17:39,639
know, frozen fire, right? 
Similar concept to a Ruby. 

2904
02:17:39,959 --> 02:17:44,719
So since Quaithe is advising 
Daenerys, who because she 

2905
02:17:44,719 --> 02:17:47,719
probably thinks she's Azora 
High, but Quaithe isn't a red 

2906
02:17:47,719 --> 02:17:52,320
priestess, so there's at least a
shadowbinder tapping into this. 

2907
02:17:52,799 --> 02:17:54,200
Well, who wants to save the 
world? 

2908
02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:56,360
Probably because there's doesn't
seem to be any ulterior motive 

2909
02:17:56,360 --> 02:17:58,280
for Quaithe. 
We have not seen any reason to 

2910
02:17:58,280 --> 02:18:00,600
suspect she's in it for herself 
or she's trying to mislead 

2911
02:18:00,600 --> 02:18:02,639
Danny. 
Maybe she is, but I've seen no 

2912
02:18:02,639 --> 02:18:06,080
evidence of that. 
So again, you got this. 

2913
02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:09,400
Maybe Quaithe is doing things 
that Melisandre is also kind of 

2914
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:10,799
trying to do from a different 
angle. 

2915
02:18:10,799 --> 02:18:13,320
And they're both they both 
emanate from the same city with 

2916
02:18:13,320 --> 02:18:16,040
the same very rare magical skill
of shadow binding. 

2917
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:19,040
So there's room there for a 
connection, even though there 

2918
02:18:19,040 --> 02:18:22,040
isn't any specific connective 
tissue there for us to to lean 

2919
02:18:22,040 --> 02:18:24,000
into. 
And I'll repeat briefly this 

2920
02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:27,680
idea that yes, George was going 
to have Danny go to to ash eye 

2921
02:18:27,799 --> 02:18:30,360
and he changed his mind on that.
So maybe Melisandre is the way 

2922
02:18:30,360 --> 02:18:33,240
to get Ash had to come to her. 
She's the one that would have 

2923
02:18:33,240 --> 02:18:34,520
this knowledge. 
The dragon idea. 

2924
02:18:34,639 --> 02:18:36,799
Yeah, I like that idea a lot 
too. 

2925
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:40,120
Like who else has lore? 
Who else is going to know the 

2926
02:18:40,120 --> 02:18:41,799
things that she would need to 
get from there? 

2927
02:18:41,799 --> 02:18:45,639
Like Marwin maybe like there. 
So there are at least there is 

2928
02:18:45,879 --> 02:18:47,680
is at least one other person 
that could know a few things, 

2929
02:18:47,680 --> 02:18:49,760
which seems like Melisandre 
would know vastly more. 

2930
02:18:50,879 --> 02:18:54,040
And it allows it allows into 
cultivated character, which is 

2931
02:18:54,040 --> 02:18:59,559
more interesting, right And and 
shore up the timeline with Danny

2932
02:18:59,559 --> 02:19:02,080
and having to invent a whole new
culture and describe the 

2933
02:19:02,080 --> 02:19:03,879
buildings. 
It it, you know, it just saves 

2934
02:19:03,879 --> 02:19:08,959
him like hundreds of pages, you 
know, and he gets extra drama 

2935
02:19:08,959 --> 02:19:11,080
and character developments. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

2936
02:19:11,120 --> 02:19:14,400
Well said. 
So we might get more of this 

2937
02:19:14,400 --> 02:19:16,240
from from her. 
We might learn more when she 

2938
02:19:16,799 --> 02:19:17,959
hopefully eventually meets 
Danny. 

2939
02:19:17,959 --> 02:19:19,360
Maybe she won't. 
Maybe that'll just never happen.

2940
02:19:20,040 --> 02:19:23,120
Azor High, Nisa, Nisa, 
Lightbringer, all these things, 

2941
02:19:23,120 --> 02:19:25,000
a long night. 
Like all this lore could could 

2942
02:19:25,000 --> 02:19:26,879
get dropped like more things 
that come out, someone that's 

2943
02:19:26,879 --> 02:19:29,240
more willing to listen, someone 
that's got APOV. 

2944
02:19:29,240 --> 02:19:32,000
Like we miss a lot of these 
things because Stannis is being 

2945
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:34,240
told these things behind closed 
doors by Melisandre. 

2946
02:19:34,240 --> 02:19:36,520
But Danny is a character that we
have a lot of PO VS for. 

2947
02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:39,000
So it'd be more it might be more
front and center and it might be

2948
02:19:39,000 --> 02:19:42,719
more appropriately placed in the
story later on than you know, in

2949
02:19:42,719 --> 02:19:44,840
the first few books when the 
stuff is still developing. 

2950
02:19:46,040 --> 02:19:47,799
But here's another factor with 
Quait that I think is a really 

2951
02:19:47,799 --> 02:19:51,920
interesting wrinkle. 
Quaithe warns Danny of a lot of 

2952
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:55,680
people, including Mokoro. 
She's like cracking in dark 

2953
02:19:55,680 --> 02:19:58,200
flame. 
Lion and Griffin trust none of 

2954
02:19:58,200 --> 02:20:00,560
them. 
She doesn't mention a. 

2955
02:20:00,560 --> 02:20:02,520
She doesn't mention Marwin, 
which we've talked about before.

2956
02:20:02,520 --> 02:20:03,960
She also doesn't mention 
Melisandre. 

2957
02:20:03,960 --> 02:20:07,760
Of course, Melisandre is not 
coming to her as those others 

2958
02:20:07,760 --> 02:20:12,360
are including Marwin, but she's 
likely to encounter her and 

2959
02:20:12,360 --> 02:20:14,520
eventually. 
There's no warning there, so. 

2960
02:20:16,040 --> 02:20:18,320
That's interesting. 
I think the fact that Quaeth has

2961
02:20:18,320 --> 02:20:20,280
warned her of all these being 
people that she doesn't know. 

2962
02:20:20,360 --> 02:20:22,200
She's only seen them in the 
visions or whatever. 

2963
02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:24,680
I don't know how Quaeth knows 
these things, but supernaturally

2964
02:20:24,680 --> 02:20:29,080
clearly, but she issues no 
warning about Melisandre or some

2965
02:20:29,080 --> 02:20:31,600
of these other things that might
be that we might think would 

2966
02:20:31,600 --> 02:20:33,840
come up. 
I do want to say real quick that

2967
02:20:34,040 --> 02:20:38,240
Quaeth might not even understand
why she's giving these warnings,

2968
02:20:38,240 --> 02:20:41,080
right? 
Like don't trust them doesn't 

2969
02:20:41,080 --> 02:20:44,240
necessarily mean they are evil 
or they are out to get you. 

2970
02:20:44,240 --> 02:20:46,920
It might mean they are mistaken,
they are naive. 

2971
02:20:46,920 --> 02:20:47,440
That's. 
True. 

2972
02:20:47,920 --> 02:20:49,160
Very true. 
Yeah, you're right. 

2973
02:20:49,160 --> 02:20:51,400
And that's what Eamon says about
Melisandre to to Sam. 

2974
02:20:51,400 --> 02:20:53,800
She's like false light will lead
us deeper into the darkness. 

2975
02:20:53,800 --> 02:20:56,240
And that's what she has to know.
Light bring her no heat. 

2976
02:20:56,520 --> 02:20:58,160
You know, she has to know. 
It's it's Danny. 

2977
02:20:58,160 --> 02:21:00,320
He thinks it's Danny too. 
He realizes that when he hears 

2978
02:21:00,320 --> 02:21:01,200
about her, he's like, it's 
Danny. 

2979
02:21:01,200 --> 02:21:02,520
It's we got to tell her. 
We got to tell her. 

2980
02:21:05,240 --> 02:21:08,640
Will they? 
So Melisandre in our beginning 

2981
02:21:08,640 --> 02:21:10,960
of our conclusion here, she's 
surely a mystery that we'll 

2982
02:21:10,960 --> 02:21:14,080
never fully have the answers to 
even when it's all said and 

2983
02:21:14,080 --> 02:21:15,960
done. 
But it's not as incomplete. 

2984
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:18,040
It's it's going to be less 
incomplete than it is now. 

2985
02:21:18,040 --> 02:21:20,600
We are surely going to learn a 
lot more both about her, the 

2986
02:21:20,600 --> 02:21:23,280
mysteries she represents, the, 
the, the culture she represents,

2987
02:21:23,280 --> 02:21:26,240
the the supernatural of elements
that she represents, the the 

2988
02:21:26,240 --> 02:21:29,040
places she's been. 
And I'm excited for that. 

2989
02:21:29,080 --> 02:21:31,840
I want to say one thing and and 
I, you know, I, I don't want to 

2990
02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:35,640
be too, too much of A naysayer 
or poo poo on people's 

2991
02:21:35,640 --> 02:21:38,600
speculations too much, but I 
think a lot of the idea is 

2992
02:21:38,600 --> 02:21:41,160
trying to figure out who 
Melisandre is. 

2993
02:21:41,160 --> 02:21:45,960
Maybe she's Sierra Caesar. 
Like a, some of that stuff is 

2994
02:21:45,960 --> 02:21:50,560
interesting and very likely 
could be meaningful or something

2995
02:21:50,560 --> 02:21:54,800
that George ties together. 
But I don't feel like those are 

2996
02:21:54,800 --> 02:21:56,360
the mysteries he's presenting 
us. 

2997
02:21:56,360 --> 02:21:58,600
I think those are things we're 
latching onto because it's so 

2998
02:21:58,600 --> 02:22:00,520
long since we've had more 
information. 

2999
02:22:00,520 --> 02:22:04,120
You know, it's, it's fun and 
it's interesting and might lead 

3000
02:22:04,120 --> 02:22:06,600
us to some neat conclusions and 
George might do something with 

3001
02:22:06,600 --> 02:22:11,240
it. 
But I, I, I find myself 

3002
02:22:11,880 --> 02:22:14,000
intrigued by different things. 
So I don't know how to say that 

3003
02:22:14,000 --> 02:22:14,600
otherwise. 
Right on. 

3004
02:22:14,800 --> 02:22:15,720
Yeah. 
Cool. 

3005
02:22:15,920 --> 02:22:17,480
Well, yeah. 
Well, we've got a lot to come, 

3006
02:22:17,480 --> 02:22:19,840
I'm sure. 
I'm sure that the mysteries to 

3007
02:22:19,840 --> 02:22:25,560
be revealed are going to be both
satisfying and kick up a whole 

3008
02:22:25,560 --> 02:22:28,120
set of new mysteries. 
And that's part of the. 

3009
02:22:28,720 --> 02:22:31,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
A couple more questions from 

3010
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:33,040
y'all. 
Darry's read it before. 

3011
02:22:33,040 --> 02:22:35,080
Says her beauty slash 
attractiveness is part of Mel's 

3012
02:22:35,080 --> 02:22:37,680
value to Stannis is that having 
her at his side makes him look 

3013
02:22:37,680 --> 02:22:39,280
more manly and desirable by 
extension. 

3014
02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:41,640
That's a good point. 
She is a trapping of power 

3015
02:22:42,160 --> 02:22:43,880
herself. 
That's a good point. 

3016
02:22:43,880 --> 02:22:45,280
Very good. 
It's it's there's levels to 

3017
02:22:45,280 --> 02:22:46,160
this. 
Good catch. 

3018
02:22:46,760 --> 02:22:48,520
Doris, James says is the birth 
of Dragons. 

3019
02:22:48,520 --> 02:22:50,760
What makes Banaro and the other 
red priest think it is Danny? 

3020
02:22:50,880 --> 02:22:53,200
Or did they see what Mel did and
believe it meant Danny? 

3021
02:22:53,400 --> 02:22:54,440
We don't know. 
That's a good question. 

3022
02:22:54,520 --> 02:22:58,000
I would say I think it was the 
Dragons that made them realize. 

3023
02:22:58,000 --> 02:23:00,720
I think so too many timing that.
Yeah, I think that's it because.

3024
02:23:00,720 --> 02:23:03,240
Mel is constantly saying 
Stannis, like, give me the kid 

3025
02:23:03,240 --> 02:23:05,120
and you can awake the stone 
Dragons and then you'll have the

3026
02:23:05,120 --> 02:23:06,440
weapon you really need, a 
dragon. 

3027
02:23:06,440 --> 02:23:09,600
That's what's going to really 
help you win, you know, And 

3028
02:23:09,640 --> 02:23:11,520
that's, this is part of all my 
theory is that she knows more 

3029
02:23:11,520 --> 02:23:14,280
about Dragons and she just 
hasn't had any reason to talk 

3030
02:23:14,280 --> 02:23:16,160
about that because the dragon 
doesn't exist yet. 

3031
02:23:16,160 --> 02:23:18,640
It's not there in front of them 
to give information about. 

3032
02:23:18,680 --> 02:23:21,640
Well, I find it the weirdest 
that Melisandre doesn't hear 

3033
02:23:21,640 --> 02:23:24,720
about the birth of Dragons and 
pivot at that point. 

3034
02:23:24,720 --> 02:23:28,760
Yeah, that she is so like locked
into her current belief. 

3035
02:23:28,760 --> 02:23:32,760
Like it just seems crazy to me 
to hear about someone birthing 

3036
02:23:32,760 --> 02:23:36,080
Dragons and not be like wait 
wait. 

3037
02:23:36,200 --> 02:23:37,640
Yeah, she hasn't heard. 
Yeah. 

3038
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:40,200
And it's it's only believable 
because they went to the wall. 

3039
02:23:40,200 --> 02:23:41,560
Like if they had stayed a 
dragon. 

3040
02:23:41,560 --> 02:23:44,120
So they would have heard by now 
probably, but they went to the 

3041
02:23:44,120 --> 02:23:46,720
wall where news is really 
remote, really slow going. 

3042
02:23:46,720 --> 02:23:48,400
She. 
Truly just doesn't know right 

3043
02:23:48,400 --> 02:23:50,240
now. 
It's just weird to imagine. 

3044
02:23:50,360 --> 02:23:53,200
And even if she did hear, she 
might be suspicious. 

3045
02:23:53,280 --> 02:23:54,880
It's just a rumor. 
Who'd you hear? 

3046
02:23:54,880 --> 02:23:57,760
This all sorts like Tywin 
dismisses 3 headed dragon. 

3047
02:23:57,760 --> 02:23:59,960
Come on, that's nothing like you
gotta be kidding me, you know? 

3048
02:24:00,960 --> 02:24:03,920
She might be more susceptible to
that type of thing than Tywin, 

3049
02:24:04,280 --> 02:24:08,200
but she still might be 
suspicious of it as a rumor and 

3050
02:24:08,200 --> 02:24:10,720
still clinging on to what she 
already believes might make it 

3051
02:24:10,720 --> 02:24:12,080
even harder for her to accept 
it. 

3052
02:24:12,120 --> 02:24:15,920
She might search the flames for 
further explanation, but I don't

3053
02:24:15,920 --> 02:24:18,840
think she's you're right. 
I think that she won't take news

3054
02:24:18,960 --> 02:24:20,360
over what she sees in the 
flames. 

3055
02:24:20,360 --> 02:24:21,920
I think what she sees in the 
flames is going to trump 

3056
02:24:21,920 --> 02:24:24,920
anything she hears. 
But the news might cause her to 

3057
02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:26,120
look for new things in the 
flames. 

3058
02:24:26,120 --> 02:24:27,520
Yes, absolutely. 
I might give her. 

3059
02:24:27,520 --> 02:24:29,440
I might kick her off in a new 
direction and then then she 

3060
02:24:29,440 --> 02:24:32,840
might have discovery. 
It's it's a certainty that 

3061
02:24:32,840 --> 02:24:35,480
you'll learn eventually. 
It's just when and where and 

3062
02:24:35,480 --> 02:24:36,560
how. 
It's going to be really 

3063
02:24:36,560 --> 02:24:38,920
fascinating. 
Derry's Read It Before also says

3064
02:24:38,920 --> 02:24:41,040
it may also be a question of new
symbology. 

3065
02:24:41,040 --> 02:24:43,600
She's familiar with the symbols 
that represent concepts in Essos

3066
02:24:43,840 --> 02:24:46,400
but isn't as good at 
interpreting Westerosi symbols. 

3067
02:24:46,400 --> 02:24:47,800
That's a clever idea. 
Yeah. 

3068
02:24:47,800 --> 02:24:52,440
Like the the cultural 
touchstones that form these 

3069
02:24:52,440 --> 02:24:56,520
visions are are translated 
differently in a foreign realm 

3070
02:24:56,520 --> 02:24:58,280
perhaps. 
It's a different context. 

3071
02:24:58,280 --> 02:25:01,840
It's I think Dairy's read it 
before is making a better 

3072
02:25:01,960 --> 02:25:04,840
example of I did with the 
football gambler trying to 

3073
02:25:04,840 --> 02:25:06,720
gamble on. 
Basketball, you know, like, 

3074
02:25:06,760 --> 02:25:08,720
yeah. 
There's there's some 

3075
02:25:08,720 --> 02:25:11,600
similarities, but there's some 
nuances she hasn't learned yet, 

3076
02:25:11,600 --> 02:25:13,520
so yeah. 
Yeah, like one person would be 

3077
02:25:13,520 --> 02:25:17,480
like, oh, obviously this symbol 
is the sigil of this house, and 

3078
02:25:17,480 --> 02:25:20,240
she might not jump to thinking 
she. 

3079
02:25:20,240 --> 02:25:21,600
Doesn't know the sigils of all 
the houses. 

3080
02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:25,840
Even if she knows the sigils, 
she still might not jump to it 

3081
02:25:25,840 --> 02:25:28,120
like she's not like she. 
Might not occur to her to make 

3082
02:25:28,120 --> 02:25:28,960
that. 
Something else? 

3083
02:25:28,960 --> 02:25:30,200
Yeah. 
She doesn't think of. 

3084
02:25:30,240 --> 02:25:32,480
Who has a fox in their family 
history? 

3085
02:25:32,480 --> 02:25:34,320
Etcetera, Yeah. 
Makes sense? 

3086
02:25:34,640 --> 02:25:37,720
Like she knows Jon Snow's last 
name is Snow, right? 

3087
02:25:38,440 --> 02:25:40,040
Like like his bastard name is 
Snow. 

3088
02:25:40,040 --> 02:25:42,680
But she's not thinking. 
Oh, if I see Sand, I might be 

3089
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:45,040
thinking of a bastard from the 
from Doran. 

3090
02:25:45,040 --> 02:25:46,920
If I see it, she's not thinking 
in. 

3091
02:25:46,920 --> 02:25:50,360
Those those bastard names aren't
as deep in her like cultural 

3092
02:25:50,360 --> 02:25:52,440
understanding as they would be 
for, and Westerosi would know 

3093
02:25:52,440 --> 02:25:53,680
that back and forth like it 
would. 

3094
02:25:53,840 --> 02:25:55,160
It would click, but for her 
maybe not. 

3095
02:25:55,280 --> 02:25:57,160
That kind of ties into what you 
were saying, is Shea, about 

3096
02:25:57,160 --> 02:25:59,800
getting really old. 
You can only process so much 

3097
02:25:59,800 --> 02:26:02,040
information in your brain, like 
some of this stuff you've 

3098
02:26:02,040 --> 02:26:06,400
learned is buried in the back or
cluttered up with other stuff 

3099
02:26:06,480 --> 02:26:08,520
you know. 
She's just got relore on the the

3100
02:26:08,520 --> 02:26:09,840
brain. 
It's all just red. 

3101
02:26:09,840 --> 02:26:11,320
Red when? 
I was 18. 

3102
02:26:11,360 --> 02:26:13,960
I knew my calculus. 
I don't know it now. 

3103
02:26:17,360 --> 02:26:21,280
Our trivia question again. 
What language, besides common, 

3104
02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:24,600
do we hear Melisandre sing in? 
The answer is the tongue of 

3105
02:26:24,600 --> 02:26:26,960
Ashai. 
People guessed High Valyrian. 

3106
02:26:27,600 --> 02:26:29,200
That is the other language he 
knows, but we don't hear her 

3107
02:26:29,200 --> 02:26:31,440
sing in that one. 
So yes, Ashai. 

3108
02:26:31,440 --> 02:26:34,440
And it's like it's she says it. 
It goes like really high and 

3109
02:26:34,440 --> 02:26:36,320
really low. 
Davos is like a little creeped 

3110
02:26:36,320 --> 02:26:37,960
out by it. 
I'm picturing like the, you 

3111
02:26:37,960 --> 02:26:41,120
know, like the undulating, like 
the, you know, like that. 

3112
02:26:41,160 --> 02:26:44,680
Or ululating, I forget. 
That thing when they like, oh. 

3113
02:26:45,240 --> 02:26:47,480
Yeah, yeah. 
It's like, I wish we had kind of

3114
02:26:47,480 --> 02:26:49,200
got something like that on the 
TV show, but they didn't. 

3115
02:26:49,200 --> 02:26:50,600
They didn't want to. 
Like, I don't want to invent. 

3116
02:26:50,600 --> 02:26:52,880
Ashai is a language. 
Forget it. 

3117
02:26:52,880 --> 02:26:55,960
You know David J Peters, one 
like, no, let me do. 

3118
02:26:55,960 --> 02:26:57,880
Oh yeah, give me that. 
Another What We do in the 

3119
02:26:57,880 --> 02:27:01,000
Shadows reference today I'm 
picturing Naja when she's like 

3120
02:27:01,000 --> 02:27:03,520
doing this, like they're doing 
like a seance or whatever and 

3121
02:27:03,520 --> 02:27:06,160
she like starts, oh, I can't do 
it. 

3122
02:27:06,200 --> 02:27:07,520
You know what I'm talking. 
She was like, really? 

3123
02:27:07,520 --> 02:27:08,520
High and low. 
Really. 

3124
02:27:08,560 --> 02:27:10,480
Yeah. 
If you look up what we do in the

3125
02:27:10,480 --> 02:27:13,200
shadows, Seance, see, I swear 
that's what Melisandre is doing 

3126
02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:14,920
here. 
Relar knows what we do in the 

3127
02:27:14,920 --> 02:27:19,760
shadows for sure. 
Yes, yes, next time. 

3128
02:27:20,360 --> 02:27:23,280
We don't have a live stream next
week, but we do have the 

3129
02:27:23,280 --> 02:27:25,120
abduction of Liana in a couple 
weeks. 

3130
02:27:25,120 --> 02:27:26,960
That's another topics moot 
topic. 

3131
02:27:26,960 --> 02:27:30,960
And we will be releasing not on 
Sunday, but around the next in 

3132
02:27:30,960 --> 02:27:33,840
the next little while. 
The Part 2 of the red Kraken 

3133
02:27:33,840 --> 02:27:35,920
episode, it's called the 
Lioness, the Kraken and the 

3134
02:27:35,920 --> 02:27:37,800
seahorse. 
It's a patrons only episode. 

3135
02:27:38,080 --> 02:27:41,400
If you are a paid subscriber, 
either through Patreon or 

3136
02:27:41,400 --> 02:27:45,240
Spotify, you will get access to 
that episode and if you aren't, 

3137
02:27:45,640 --> 02:27:48,080
well, I'm sorry, you won't, but 
you can sign up and we'll, we'll

3138
02:27:48,120 --> 02:27:50,240
you can get it that way. 
A one time donation will get it 

3139
02:27:50,240 --> 02:27:52,320
sent to you as well through 
PayPal. 

3140
02:27:52,800 --> 02:27:56,600
The link is on our website, 
historyofwesteros.com. 

3141
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:59,080
You can also find links to a lot
of other ways to support the 

3142
02:27:59,080 --> 02:28:02,320
show there and find other links 
to our content as well. 

3143
02:28:02,320 --> 02:28:05,160
So you can go there for both 
more content and to support us. 

3144
02:28:05,160 --> 02:28:09,080
Hey multi purpose. 
One time donation of $5000. 

3145
02:28:09,120 --> 02:28:14,800
Or that would be enough, but 
less would also, yeah. 4990. 

3146
02:28:14,800 --> 02:28:16,680
Nine that would also work. 
Yep, Yep, that's right. 

3147
02:28:17,200 --> 02:28:20,240
So we we mentioned a few other 
episodes that were in this one. 

3148
02:28:20,240 --> 02:28:22,000
You might want to check out. 
We have an we have a full 

3149
02:28:22,000 --> 02:28:23,600
episode on Ash shy that we did 
years ago. 

3150
02:28:23,960 --> 02:28:28,120
Of course, I mentioned the Eamon
be before the wall episode that 

3151
02:28:28,680 --> 02:28:31,000
is in this same class. 
It doesn't necessarily relate to

3152
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:33,000
this one as much, but it's the 
same style episode. 

3153
02:28:33,360 --> 02:28:36,760
Of course, you mentioned the 
Many Faces Zora High episode and

3154
02:28:36,760 --> 02:28:40,360
later this year we'll be doing 
an episode on the shadow by a 

3155
02:28:40,360 --> 02:28:42,040
shy. 
We have an episode on a shy by 

3156
02:28:42,040 --> 02:28:44,240
the shadow, but we want to do 
the reverse, the Shadow by a 

3157
02:28:44,240 --> 02:28:45,800
shy. 
So let's we're going to talk 

3158
02:28:45,800 --> 02:28:47,480
about what that is the influence
on it. 

3159
02:28:47,480 --> 02:28:49,840
There's a lot of Lord of the 
Rings influence in that, but 

3160
02:28:49,840 --> 02:28:53,240
plenty of just original George 
stuff too and a lot of mystery. 

3161
02:28:53,760 --> 02:28:56,360
So we look forward to that. 
We look forward to you having 

3162
02:28:56,760 --> 02:28:59,800
you all around for that and your
feedback from these episodes and

3163
02:28:59,800 --> 02:29:03,640
more. 
And that's it for today. 

3164
02:29:03,640 --> 02:29:07,520
Let's let's say thanks and 
Sean's going to run off and get 

3165
02:29:07,520 --> 02:29:10,000
a cat for those of you watching,
maybe we'll see another cat. 

3166
02:29:10,560 --> 02:29:15,000
Thanks to Nina for her valuable 
thoughts and notes. 

3167
02:29:15,400 --> 02:29:18,080
We she and I chatted a lot about
this topic and it was very 

3168
02:29:18,080 --> 02:29:20,320
helpful to me to get my thoughts
organized. 

3169
02:29:20,320 --> 02:29:24,400
It's always difficult when we 
have these off the beaten path 

3170
02:29:24,400 --> 02:29:26,560
topics, these supernatural 
topics that are a little hard 

3171
02:29:26,560 --> 02:29:28,440
to, you know, what order do we 
talk about these things and 

3172
02:29:28,440 --> 02:29:32,080
what, what magical things do we 
put in what order, what magical 

3173
02:29:32,080 --> 02:29:33,400
things to connect to other 
magical things. 

3174
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:36,680
It's a fun difficulty though. 
Of course I'm not complaining. 

3175
02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:38,960
I am very lucky to be able to do
this. 

3176
02:29:39,280 --> 02:29:43,160
And that's why we like to thank 
folks at the end, because we're 

3177
02:29:43,160 --> 02:29:45,240
thankful. 
Thanks to Joey, Jesse and Bran 

3178
02:29:45,240 --> 02:29:47,200
for our music as well. 
That's a great thing that we 

3179
02:29:47,200 --> 02:29:49,320
have. 
We've got a Kitty on screen with

3180
02:29:49,320 --> 02:29:50,040
Sean. 
Look at that. 

3181
02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:51,680
Hey, look at that. 
She's jumping up. 

3182
02:29:51,800 --> 02:29:54,080
So well. 
Trained rubbing her, rubbing her

3183
02:29:54,080 --> 02:29:56,040
face on his beard. 
That's a good cat. 

3184
02:29:58,640 --> 02:29:59,960
Thanks as well to Michael 
Klarfeld. 

3185
02:29:59,960 --> 02:30:03,400
You can see the map that he made
sitting right behind me, and 

3186
02:30:03,400 --> 02:30:05,760
there's lots of other maps he's 
designed that you can get one at

3187
02:30:05,760 --> 02:30:10,320
claradox.de. 
That's KLARADO x.de. 

3188
02:30:10,680 --> 02:30:13,200
You can order the files from him
and get them printed yourself at

3189
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:15,600
your local print shop. 
It's pretty, pretty cheap that 

3190
02:30:15,600 --> 02:30:16,640
way. 
Good way to do it. 

3191
02:30:16,760 --> 02:30:19,000
Yeah, it's a great way to do it,
especially because you can get 

3192
02:30:19,000 --> 02:30:22,600
it whatever size and and 
material you want. 

3193
02:30:22,600 --> 02:30:25,440
In our case, we got it printed 
on cloth, which you couldn't 

3194
02:30:25,440 --> 02:30:28,240
have gotten at your local print 
shop, but you could get it matte

3195
02:30:28,240 --> 02:30:33,360
or saucy or real big or small. 
I you get real tiny, you could 

3196
02:30:33,360 --> 02:30:35,440
do what I've done and printed on
clothes. 

3197
02:30:35,760 --> 02:30:39,040
I've printed dresses of his maps
and you with the files. 

3198
02:30:39,040 --> 02:30:41,480
You could print your own 
personal clothes as well. 

3199
02:30:41,480 --> 02:30:43,240
So just want to throw that out 
there. 

3200
02:30:43,240 --> 02:30:46,040
I, I love his designs. 
And yeah, you should definitely 

3201
02:30:46,280 --> 02:30:48,960
get the files for your own use. 
That's right. 

3202
02:30:48,960 --> 02:30:51,080
Support Michael, support the 
community. 

3203
02:30:51,600 --> 02:30:54,640
But first and foremost, Valar 
reread us.