1
00:00:48,130 --> 00:00:51,330
House Karstark. 
Their sigil is a white sun on 

2
00:00:51,330 --> 00:00:53,570
black. 
The sun, of course, is a 

3
00:00:53,570 --> 00:00:56,770
powerful symbol in the North, 
because whenever winter descends

4
00:00:56,770 --> 00:01:00,000
on Westeros, the North bears the
brunt of that. 

5
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,640
So the sun is very welcome and 
necessary, and they'd be rather 

6
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,760
screwed without it. 
And Carhold, home of the 

7
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,680
Karstarks, is among those 
closest to the Wall, so they 

8
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,160
need it more than most. 
They're not a new house, but 

9
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:21,080
they're nowhere near as ancient 
as most of the known houses of 

10
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,440
the North. 
Yet they are among one of the 

11
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,360
more powerful. 
So despite being a bit newer on 

12
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,480
the block and newer on the block
is still 1000 years old or so. 

13
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,320
But they're the a rare example 
of the Starks allowing a house 

14
00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:40,560
with their blood to be created 
right a a a complimentary a 

15
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,440
cadet branch of House Stark, in 
a way. 

16
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,960
But they're the only one to 
still survive in current times. 

17
00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,520
There's been a few other cadet 
branches, but this is the only 

18
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,120
one still around. 
This connection is maintained 

19
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,000
over the years. 
They've intermarried with the 

20
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,600
Starks and remain loyal all the 
while. 

21
00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,280
The events of Asang of Ice and 
Fire saw that trend continue at 

22
00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,120
first, but since the and in part
because of House Karstark split 

23
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,160
from House Stark, the Kingdom of
the North fell and a succession 

24
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,000
battle, not a battle out in the 
fields, but a battle 

25
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,400
nonetheless. 
A struggle for Car Hold began 

26
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,240
behind the backdrop of the War 
of 5 Kings, near the end of A 

27
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,840
Dance with Dragons. 
Alice Karstark appears on the 

28
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,880
scene as well, after Melisandre 
predicted her coming, but 

29
00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:30,920
thought it was Arya. 
It's not exactly unusual for 

30
00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:32,640
Melisandre to misinterpret a 
vision. 

31
00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:35,160
In fact, that's exactly what she
said to John. 

32
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,040
She's like the vision was right,
I just got interpreted it wrong.

33
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,920
But still, maybe she was more 
right than we thought. 

34
00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:46,360
Because Alice really, really 
reminds John of Arya so much 

35
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,280
that at one point it almost 
makes his heartbreak. 

36
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:54,280
So the kinship between Stark and
Karstark is very much worth 

37
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,160
exploring. 
And that subsequent fallout is a

38
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,240
major part of this episode, but 
not the only part. 

39
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,840
That's right. 
We've got all that and more on 

40
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,480
this episode of History of 
Westeros Podcast. 

41
00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,960
Hello and welcome, everybody. 
We're back with another episode 

42
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,120
every week just about. 
We have a live stream at 3:00 

43
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,040
Eastern on YouTube, and you can 
catch the edited version of that

44
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,560
U on Spotify or anywhere you 
catch podcasts, whatever 

45
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,640
platform you use. 
How's it going, Sean? 

46
00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:27,520
It's going well. 
I I wish that one of the car 

47
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,320
Starks have been executed by 
hanging rather than beheading, 

48
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,960
so that when you're talking 
about them being new on the 

49
00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,920
block, I could have made some 
kind of hanging tough joke. 

50
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,400
New car Starks on the chopping 
block. 

51
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,000
Yeah, there's still the chopping
block. 

52
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:40,840
We could still. 
There you go. 

53
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,120
There's a couple of examples of 
that going, yeah, yeah, that's a

54
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,520
that's a thing. 
We noted that the car Starks 

55
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,240
have a one of their recurring 
features of A Song of Ice and 

56
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,640
Fire is getting executed by 
kings that they were supposed to

57
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,480
be loyal to. 
Yeah, that's that's not the best

58
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,480
thing to be known for. 
But it's not their fault there's

59
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,040
so many kings. 
Yeah, exactly. 

60
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,800
Yeah, right. 
How do you or is it. 

61
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,280
Yeah, well, in part it's they 
play a role in that. 

62
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,040
You know, they definitely, as 
we'll see they they had a big 

63
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,960
role in getting the Kingdom of 
the North started. 

64
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,959
So yeah, we've got a lot to talk
about with that regard. 

65
00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:19,640
It's one of our longest episode 
documents in a little while that

66
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,720
doesn't always correspond 
directly to length. 

67
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,080
That's what she said, but it 
often at least approximates 

68
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:28,720
that. 
Shout out to our good friend 

69
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,560
Nina, who added a lot of helpful
notes as per usual to this 

70
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,040
episode. 
She has some great thoughts on 

71
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,080
the Karstarks, on Alice, and 
some things yet to come, but if 

72
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,520
you go to her blog you will find
which is good Queen Ally with 

73
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:47,040
1l.tumblr.com you will find the 
latest post, which is how do you

74
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,120
think Melisandre will react when
she discovers that Stannis isn't

75
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,800
actually Azora High Reborn? 
And what about the Queen's men 

76
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,000
and yeah, the Queen's men. 
That's a great question. 

77
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,400
It isn't just about Melisandre, 
it's about the followers that 

78
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,520
she's convinced that Stannis is 
Azora. 

79
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,200
All these people are going to 
react to that coming, you know, 

80
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,680
turning around or whatever. 
Nina, that's a loaded question 

81
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,120
that presumes the standards is 
not azoral. 

82
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,520
I don't know about that, right, 
So we'll have to see how that 

83
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,120
goes. 
And you want to read a good 

84
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,560
queenalley.tumblr.com to see 
what Nina thinks. 

85
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,960
If you have questions for us, 
send them to 

86
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,240
westeroshistory@gmail.com if 
you're hearing this episode or 

87
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,160
watching it beyond not live. 
But if it's live, why not just 

88
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,880
type your question in the chat 
box there? 

89
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,880
At the end of this one, I'll 
mention some episodes that 

90
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,200
relate to the topics we discuss 
here, because you might just 

91
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,320
want to stay immersed and have 
fun staying within Westeros or 

92
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,320
Essos as your interest may take 
you. 

93
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,000
Also at the end will be the 
answer to this trivia question, 

94
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,520
which is what is Harry and 
Karstark's nickname as given to 

95
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,880
him by his sister. 
This is, like I said, this is 

96
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,880
one of the longer ones we've had
in a while, so let's get right 

97
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:55,880
to it. 
First mention. 

98
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,560
We always like to do a first 
mention to kind of settle 

99
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,760
ourselves and anchor ourselves 
to how this topic was intended 

100
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,360
to be presented to us in the 
books, rather than just our full

101
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,440
view of their history and all 
the detailed look that we're 

102
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,040
taking. 
So it comes in brand six of the 

103
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,720
Game of Thrones as the northern 
armies are gathering at 

104
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,120
Winterfell. 
The Karstarks came in on a cold,

105
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:25,800
windy morning, bringing 300 
horsemen and near 2000 foot from

106
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,960
their castle at Carr Hold. 
The steel points of their Pikes 

107
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,600
winked in the pale sunlight as 
the column approached. 

108
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,240
A man went before them, pounding
out a slow, deep, throated 

109
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,040
marching rhythm on a drum that 
was bigger than he was. 

110
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:48,760
Boom, boom, boom. 
Bran watched them come from a 

111
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,880
guard turret atop the outer 
wall, peering through Maester 

112
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,440
Lewin's bronze far eye while 
perched on Hodor's shoulders. 

113
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:02,920
Lord Ricard himself LED them, 
his sons Herion and Edard and 

114
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,160
Torin riding beside him beneath 
night black banners emblazoned 

115
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,000
with the white sunburst of their
house. 

116
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,640
Old Nan said they had Stark 
blood in them going back 

117
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,840
hundreds of years, but they did 
not look like Starks to Bran 

118
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,320
and. 
That's a very interesting line 

119
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,760
that they don't look like Starks
to Bran because the Starks have 

120
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,320
a look. 
This isn't just like oh like 

121
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,840
this isn't just the perspective 
of a 7 year old kid who's like 

122
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,120
oh they don't look like me. 
Which you might think And that 

123
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,120
that would be if if that was the
case, it would be a a thing for 

124
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,680
a 7 year old to think and an 
easy line to just kind of toss 

125
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,480
aside and you know, OK, that's 
the seven-year old's 

126
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,040
perspective. 
But with existing theories put 

127
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,280
forward by folks like us about 
looks being maintained over 

128
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,160
thousands of years and how there
might be a magical element to 

129
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:50,720
that. 
And how that might be related to

130
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,160
weirwoods, which is in our 
Weirwood episode from long ago, 

131
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,480
we talked about that specific 
thing. 

132
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,400
Yeah, that's a really 
interesting point that they 

133
00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,760
don't look like that to Bran. 
I think it's actually meant to 

134
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,960
tell us something. 
And yeah, what do you think, 

135
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,200
Sean? 
It might be, but it might be 

136
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,400
multifaceted. 
And it might be something that 

137
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,400
George didn't have fully worked 
out at the time, either. 

138
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,120
What I wonder is if it's not so 
much to tell us that the 

139
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,720
Karstarks don't look like the 
Starks as it is to tell us that 

140
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,520
the Starks have a look. 
Because he also wants to make it

141
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,680
clear to us that the Lannisters 
have a look. 

142
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,000
Yeah, Baratheons have a look. 
And those things can matter when

143
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,600
it comes to like, who the real 
parents of Joffrey are. 

144
00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,640
And maybe the idea that the 
others are looking for John and 

145
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,039
so when? 
They know what Starks look like.

146
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,240
Waymar, yeah. 
You're right. 

147
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,760
Yeah. 
He looked like John. 

148
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,240
Oh, but it wasn't him after all.
But does that make sense? 

149
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,200
I think it's. 
It does, Yeah. 

150
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,400
It can play into a lot of 
different. 

151
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,039
Things. 
Yeah, you're right. 

152
00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,679
It's it's indirect, but it tells
you a lot of things. 

153
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,080
It's kind of partly where your 
mind is at the moment, but it 

154
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,680
can mean a lot of things. 
Yeah, that's a good point. 

155
00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,600
So those his sons, of course, 
are a big deal. 

156
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,920
And Lord Rickard himself will 
have a huge role in both the 

157
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,840
formation of the Northern 
Kingdom and it's collapsed. 

158
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,640
As I said in the intro, his sons
as well will play a big role in 

159
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,760
that, mostly in tragic form. 
They're mostly it's mostly their

160
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,520
deaths that are a trigger rather
than the actions they take 

161
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,160
during life. 
Not mentioned are quite a few 

162
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,400
other car Starks who gained 
prominence and entered the story

163
00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,120
after Lord Rickard's execution, 
A Feast for Crows or Dance with 

164
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,080
Dragons. 
The expansion of the story there

165
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,840
of course, includes us meeting a
lot of less prominent members of

166
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,360
a lot of houses, you know, and 
just more houses in general 

167
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,320
become part of the story. 
So they're they're part of the 

168
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,480
story very early on and it stays
that way. 

169
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,760
Like they are a big part of the 
story at the end of the Dance 

170
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,280
with Dragons. 
They're a big part of the story 

171
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,480
early, and it's consistently 
that way. 

172
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,840
The only time they're not really
a part of the story is when the 

173
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,840
North isn't a part of the story,
which isn't a feast for crows. 

174
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,920
So other than that, they're 
around. 

175
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,360
Even then they're around because
of they're in the South. 

176
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,760
There's Broken Men and hunting 
Jamie and just survivors from 

177
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,600
the battles. 
And yeah, it's there's a lot. 

178
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,400
So 2300 Men is what Lord Rickard
brings. 

179
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,000
It's one of the larger 
contingents. 

180
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,040
It's not the largest one, but 
it's very big. 

181
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,200
And of course, these men will do
a lot of damage at first to 

182
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,520
Lannister armies, but eventually
to, as I said, a lot of them 

183
00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,000
become Broken men, a lot of them
become just bandits in the 

184
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,920
Riverlands. 
It's like the number one house 

185
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:08,600
that supplies the Broken men is 
House Karstark, which is pretty 

186
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:09,920
sad. 
And you know, we've talked about

187
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,760
the Broken Men a lot. 
Septon Meribald has that 

188
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,360
incredible speech. 
And then there's another speech 

189
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,320
by Elder brother, which is also 
pretty moving. 

190
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,280
And in both cases, the car 
stocks are either directly or 

191
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,560
indirectly referred to because 
they're such a big part of that.

192
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,880
Like I said, probably #1. 
Another interesting piece of 

193
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,280
that not to take away from, you 
know, the the struggles that 

194
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,280
their life would be full of at 
this point. 

195
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,480
But it's probably better to be 
going through that in the 

196
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,720
Riverlands and just South of the
Wall, right? 

197
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,320
Like these guys. 
But but that also means that 

198
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,480
they're far, far from home. 
Probably farther than almost 

199
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:42,960
anyone else involved in this 
story. 

200
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:43,440
Right. 
Yeah. 

201
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:44,680
Yeah, that's a good point. 
You're right. 

202
00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,000
There's there's thinking about 
how far away from home they are.

203
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,080
I hadn't really thought about 
that. 

204
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:49,440
They do travel an awful long 
way. 

205
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,120
The north is remote. 
They have to crash all the way 

206
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,320
through the neck, and it's 
dangerous. 

207
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,040
And yeah, you're right, it's a 
long way. 

208
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,800
It's hard to get back once 
you're down there, too. 

209
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,760
Nina says. 
Maybe not read too much, or 

210
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,040
reads a different way into the 
the look of the Karstarks. 

211
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,240
Maybe a little more young boy 
should be included in this take,

212
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,560
which is that he's lost his 
family. 

213
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,200
They're not dead yet, It's just 
they've all gone. 

214
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,080
They've all gone South or gone 
elsewhere. 

215
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,560
John went to the Wall being the 
exception. 

216
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,000
So he is lonely, but they don't 
seem like family to him. 

217
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,280
So that is a that is AI think 
that's another way to take it 

218
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,440
and it's an accurate way. 
I think that's a good read and 

219
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,520
not one that pushes aside the 
other takes. 

220
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,920
I think all the all these takes 
we've we've listed off about 

221
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,240
this I think are pretty valid. 
You know, another thought I 

222
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,560
didn't have till just now 
thinking about how Nina put it. 

223
00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:36,360
Is it? 
I don't know. 

224
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,960
It would be too negative, but it
might be a little bit of 

225
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,440
privilege on Brand's part. 
His car starts probably look a 

226
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,200
little more haggard. 
Yeah, they're from Farther N 

227
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,560
They're probably living tougher 
lives. 

228
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,160
They just went on a long 
journey. 

229
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,920
Whereas John and Rob, they're 
all young and chipper and clean 

230
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,240
shaven and everything. 
You know it's. 

231
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:52,040
A good point, yeah. 
And. 

232
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,840
That might add to his viewing 
them differently. 

233
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,680
It also shows us that there are 
cultural differences between 

234
00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,080
different areas. 
In the north, the closer the 

235
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,560
wall to the wall you get, the 
closer you are to the older 

236
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:02,880
ways. 
That's more they're like they 

237
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,120
think of themselves as more 
northern, like the the free folk

238
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,080
think of themselves as more 
northern than people South of 

239
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,800
the wall. 
And that same sort of attitude 

240
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,560
extends. 
Like, we all know that a lot of 

241
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,080
the Northerners look at the 
Manderleys like a little bit 

242
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,120
less than Northern. 
You know, like, it's not like a 

243
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,360
big overwhelming prejudice, but 
it's like, yeah, they're not as 

244
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,880
far to the South. 
They don't have to deal with 

245
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,680
Free Folk or Ironborn. 
Like, yeah, their lives are 

246
00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:24,200
easier, no doubt, Like, they're 
still in the North. 

247
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,400
They still hit these nasty 
winters. 

248
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,800
But yeah, there is a difference 
in in what they have to deal 

249
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:29,840
with. 
And that's going to show up. 

250
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,280
And. 
Yeah, And like cultural things, 

251
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,640
which in turn shows up and how 
they look and how they dress and

252
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,680
how they groom themselves. 
But to come back to what I said 

253
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,840
at the intro, yeah, Bran doesn't
see them as looking like Starks,

254
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:46,040
but Alice, Karstark, and Arya 
are like, Jon is blown away by 

255
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,240
how similar they are. 
Not just in the way they look 

256
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,680
too, but in mannerisms. 
It's it's crazy, right? 

257
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,600
And then there's Melisandre 
seeing her in a vision and 

258
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,320
thinking she's Arya. 
So all the stuff just this is 

259
00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:00,200
like, Oh yeah, that's that's a 
rich vein of of characterization

260
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,040
there. 
So it's it's during her wedding 

261
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,040
by the way that he she's so much
like him that her heart that his

262
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,040
heart breaks because she's just 
so ready. 

263
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,120
She's like he's like are you 
scared to get married. 

264
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,720
And she's like let him be scared
of me and smiles like Ari, he's 

265
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,720
like, oh man, Ari. 
And from the expression on 

266
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,560
Sigourn's face during the the 
ceremony. 

267
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,160
Yeah, he does look more scared. 
He she's like ready and he's 

268
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,440
like, Oh my God, I'm getting 
married. 

269
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,600
The sigil, their white sun on 
black. 

270
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,560
Shay is putting up a a version 
of this. 

271
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,120
There's a lot of variations on 
this and the fandom, but they 

272
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,680
all, they're all just white Suns
on black. 

273
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,040
There's not a lot of ways to 
vary that, you know, like 

274
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,440
there's one version that has a 
face on it, you know, sun with a

275
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,640
face on it. 
But mostly it's just black 

276
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,800
background, white sun. 
You can have some variation with

277
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,600
the number of points. 
OK. 

278
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,520
Yeah, the. 
Flare of the sun so. 

279
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,880
That's a good point. 
Seven might be, might say 

280
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,720
something versus, you know, not 
7. 

281
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,880
Nine is the traditional number 
for like, that's how many points

282
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,240
are on Rob's crown and that's 
how many was on Torrance crown, 

283
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,080
apparently. 
So I didn't count the. 

284
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,960
It's a hell of a lot more. 
It's like double. 

285
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:03,960
That's like 8. 
Oh wow. 

286
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,440
That's a lot. 
Of a lot of of. 

287
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,520
Pointy sun there, Yeah. 
So Car Hold is in the east where

288
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,040
the sun rises. 
So that might be a little part 

289
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,920
of it. 
That's part of what Nina thinks 

290
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,160
as well. 
We both kind of landed on a 

291
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,800
similar answer for why that 
might be there. 

292
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,960
Also, they both descend from a 
Son of the King of Winter in a 

293
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,600
sense that's maybe a little bit 
of a pun. 

294
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,840
And this comes up interestingly.
I like, I think it might be it's

295
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,240
kind of like a weirwood sun, you
know, like a white sun is kind 

296
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,240
of weirwood sun. 
I don't know. 

297
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,040
That's one thing that came to 
mind for me. 

298
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,920
Also, it comes up interestingly 
in this cadet branch scenario 

299
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,440
with Magnar Sigor in the Magnar 
Fen and Alice getting married. 

300
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,280
They they adopted a, you know, 
bronze sun with red flames on 

301
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,960
white, which is even more like 
the weirwood colors, red and 

302
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,400
white. 
So ultimately, whatever their 

303
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,760
sigil actually means, it's 
something from their history 

304
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,440
which you know what we're going 
to turn to next. 

305
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,240
Even though it's not going to 
answer that particular question,

306
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,600
it will answer some other 
questions. 

307
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,320
Let's have a quote about where 
they come from. 

308
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:06,920
Their origin quote, we'll call 
it. 

309
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,440
The Karstarks traced their 
descent to Karland Stark, a 

310
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,000
younger son of Winterfell who 
had put down a rebel Lord 1000 

311
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,560
years ago and been granted lands
for his valor. 

312
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,720
The castle he built had been 
named Karl's Hold, but that soon

313
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,960
became Karl Hold, and over the 
centuries the Karhold Starks had

314
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,040
become Karstarks. 
So they didn't take the name 

315
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,800
Karstark. 
It was kind of a nickname given 

316
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,760
like a sensible, like, it's such
an obvious linguistic 

317
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,720
shortening, you know, like, oh, 
that Karstarks. 

318
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,960
That makes sense. 
Yeah, it's already Karl's hold, 

319
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,680
car, hold. 
All these shortenings happened 

320
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,080
over time. 
It just kind of makes sense. 

321
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,680
But it is kind of nowhere did. 
If they didn't name themselves 

322
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,400
differently. 
They were still Starks for a 

323
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,200
while, but eventually, like 
naming. 

324
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:53,560
I wonder if they didn't like 
that. 

325
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:54,880
Like, no, we like being called 
Starks. 

326
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,480
We don't want to be called car 
Starks. 

327
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,720
We're Starks. 
But. 

328
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,520
Some of them wanted to be named 
Truck, Starks or Motorcycle. 

329
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,760
Starks. 
Boat Starks. 

330
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,800
Yeah, right. 
Perhaps the older brother of 

331
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,120
Karl and Stark was incapable of 
leading men into battle. 

332
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,240
We wonder why this younger son 
of Winterfell was the one that 

333
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,560
accomplished this task. 
It must have been a major 

334
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,720
campaign given the reward was so
large, I mean thousands of years

335
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,000
of Stark history, and the only 
other cadet branch we know of is

336
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,680
the Gray Starks at the intro. 
I kind of assumed there's others

337
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,760
by saying there have been 
others, but we only know of this

338
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,480
one, so it was rare, even if 
there. 

339
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,280
I definitely do assume there's 
others, even though we don't 

340
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,120
know the names, but clearly it 
was not common thing. 

341
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,320
And as I also said before, this 
is the only one to survive. 

342
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,520
Gray Starks have been extinct 
for a long time. 

343
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,200
I just can't. 
I like your theory about how 

344
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,040
this might have come up come 
about given the timing of things

345
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,560
right, The Boltons. 
Yeah. 

346
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,920
So it really changed the 
geopolitical situation. 

347
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,520
It may have been not just a 
reward, it may have been like a 

348
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,280
strategic long term plan to box 
the Boltons in, which is if you 

349
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,280
look at the map, it's going to 
pull this up in a minute and 

350
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,320
shake and pull it up now. 
Instead you got to get a view of

351
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,079
it just to see the region 
because it's all it's nice to 

352
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,200
have a visual representation of 
what I'm talking about. 

353
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,599
We don't want to take the phrase
1000 years ago too literally and

354
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,480
we we can't because it's clearly
isn't meant to be literal. 

355
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,440
But roughly 1000 years ago is 
when White Harbor was built 

356
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,560
also. 
So we got somewhere around the 

357
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,960
year 700 BC before the conquest,
that's roughly 1000 years ago. 

358
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:30,280
White Harbor was built sometime 
around 600 BC to 1000 BC, so in 

359
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,920
that range. 
And it was also a quote 1000 

360
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,600
years ago that the Boltons bent 
the knee and agreed to give up 

361
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,480
flaying. 
Yeah, sure they did, but that 

362
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,240
aside, they did bend the knee. 
Whether they kept to that 

363
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,360
promise or not is a different 
topic. 

364
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,840
Point being, it may have been 
the Boltons that this Karl and 

365
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,800
Stark defeated. 
It all lines up very well and 

366
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,720
after within 100 years of this 
defeat, you've got car hold up 

367
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:03,640
North East of the Dread Fort, 
Winterfell West of the Dread 

368
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,920
Fort and White Harbor South of 
it. 

369
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,120
Whereas before that, thousand 
years ago, everything east of 

370
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,080
the Dread Fort was just kind of 
unclaimed or claimed by lesser 

371
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,000
houses. 
So they would have been able to 

372
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,200
dominate that whole region. 
And as a part of defanging the 

373
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,120
Boltons, who have always been 
the Starks biggest enemies in 

374
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,000
the north, giving land, giving 
away some of those sort of 

375
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,000
unclaimed lands to people that 
became the the two most loyal 

376
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,760
vassals of the Starks according 
to at least some Take some 

377
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,120
traditions. 
I think that's meaningful. 

378
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,760
You know, I think that was 
intentional and I think it 

379
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,560
worked for the most part. 
Like the Boltons have been 

380
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,640
pretty passive until the events 
of A Song of Ice and Fire. 

381
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,120
It was, you know, if you look at
why Rob fell for Roose Bolton, 

382
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,600
despite their history, it's 
because they had behaved for 

383
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,560
like like 1000 years. 
People still scared of them, but

384
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,000
they hadn't done anything like 
blatant that they got caught 

385
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:55,880
for. 
They did things. 

386
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,680
They just. 
Bruce Bolton is very sneaky, 

387
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,640
right? 
He's good at keeping it on the 

388
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,600
down low. 
And or being local about. 

389
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,600
Yeah, yeah, they're. 
Not interfering with the other 

390
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,360
houses around them or anything 
so. 

391
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,080
And there's a certain sense to 
new houses, creating new houses 

392
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,560
and expecting more loyalty from 
them. 

393
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,000
Because you, as the Starks, as 
the King of Winter, you created 

394
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,960
them. 
You said, hey, I'm allowing you 

395
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,880
to start this new house, giving 
you a castle. 

396
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,000
Of course you're loyal to that 
house, the guy that gave you all

397
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,880
that, right? 
That's the Manderley's position.

398
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,960
That's has had been the 
Karstarks position. 

399
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,880
So maybe the Glovers and the 
other houses, yeah, they're 

400
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,680
loyal to the Starks, but they 
had to be conquered in the 1st 

401
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:35,920
place, they had to be brought 
in. 

402
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,800
And their loyalty is more of a 
it's been in place for a long 

403
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,640
time rather than like we've 
always been this way since the 

404
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:43,680
start. 
I think there's a little bit of 

405
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,280
a different vibe there. 
And even after a long time, it 

406
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,640
still might be a little 
contingent. 

407
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,560
Like, yeah, we're doing it 
because one of our ancestors 

408
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,080
said we had to. 
I guess we'll keep doing it, 

409
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:54,480
right? 
Yeah. 

410
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,200
And for the most part, people 
seem to like the Starks. 

411
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,240
The Starks have been good 
rulers. 

412
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,080
So you know, there's probably 
not too many times where they're

413
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,280
like, God, those Dang Starks. 
But it definitely happens. 

414
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,480
I mean, we're seeing it happen 
in the current timeline, like 

415
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,080
Lady Dustin was unhappy with Ned
Stark, blah blah blah. 

416
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,320
Lots of other examples. 
Brandon Stark slept around to 

417
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,680
bed. 
He probably made some people 

418
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,840
unhappy. 
You know, there's there's plenty

419
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,240
of examples. 
It's just. 

420
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,640
We're looking at 1000 years 
instead of, you know, a couple 

421
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,800
of years. 
So car hold is, as we said, 

422
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,840
north and east of Winterfell. 
It's it's on some forested river

423
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,200
whose name we don't have, but at
the headwaters of that river, 

424
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,600
which often is how things these 
things are done. 

425
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,960
It's not that far from the sea 
but the coastline is not easily 

426
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,480
accessible. 
The area in this region, the the

427
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,280
shoreline is called the Gray 
Cliffs. 

428
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,880
So it's hard to get down like 
you can't it's it's not 

429
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,640
accessible very easily and I'm 
sure there's like ways down like

430
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,000
steps and and ravines and all 
that. 

431
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,000
But it's not just like you walk 
east and you hit the shore 

432
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,240
eventually you when you walk 
east and you hit a big Cliff is 

433
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,800
what what'll happen. 
We're told fishing is really 

434
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,720
good down there if you can get 
down there. 

435
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,320
So you know it's a little bit of
a little bit of extra work to do

436
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,600
it. 
But now the northern coast 

437
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,840
apparently isn't like that. 
If you see kind of a that that 

438
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,040
part of the north juts out where
car hold is on in the the 

439
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,080
southern and eastern parts are 
where the great cliffs are, the 

440
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,920
north is not, which is too bad 
for them because that's where 

441
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,240
the Raiders come from. 
Such if they had those cliffs 

442
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,680
there they could be protected a 
little more. 

443
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,880
But unfortunately, and maybe 
that's why it took so long for 

444
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,080
this region to get settled. 
And maybe that's maybe it's a 

445
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,320
really tough place to build. 
And it took someone tough like a

446
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,920
Carlin Stark who had proven 
himself in battle against 

447
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,480
whoever it was, possibly the 
Boltons, someone important and 

448
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,240
someone strong. 
It took them to to get this 

449
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:36,760
going. 
And once it was going, you know,

450
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,440
they they had a castle and and 
that that helps keep things in 

451
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,200
place. 
But yeah, you got free folk that

452
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,080
can hit that area. 
You got Skagosi, which 

453
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,320
definitely back in the day that 
was a more risky thing than it 

454
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,240
is now. 
So yeah, and whoever lived in 

455
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,720
that region, there would have 
been people there. 

456
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,960
Maybe they were. 
They weren't necessarily closely

457
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,920
sworn to some lore, but it 
wouldn't have been completely 

458
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,440
empty is my point. 
It's not the most eastern point 

459
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,080
in the north, but they are the 
farthest east of any major 

460
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,120
northern house. 
I think maybe Widow's Watch 

461
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,440
might be a little farther out 
there, but that's also a lot 

462
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,240
farther South in the north. 
They're not. 

463
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,680
Also, they're not quite the most
northern. 

464
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,880
They're pretty close, So they're
almost the farthest east and 

465
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,760
almost the farthest N the scene 
where we meet them in that quote

466
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,440
where Bran is saying they don't 
look like northern or don't look

467
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,360
like Starks, they're the last 
army to arrive to join Rob, and 

468
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,920
that's probably because of that 
distance. 

469
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,040
Somehow the Umbers beat them 
there, who are even farther. 

470
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,880
But whatever, it's close. 
And the winters, of course, 

471
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,320
would be horrible there. 
It'd be one of the worst places 

472
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,080
to to be out, other than not in 
their castle in the same region,

473
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,280
you know. 
Do we know how many troops the 

474
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,600
Umbers brought, by the way? 
No, but pretty sure it was less 

475
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,640
than that because Rob had 12,000
when he marched at first before 

476
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,520
adding Riverlands armies to his 
men. 

477
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,120
And I I think it was 4000 men 
from the Dreadford, so that's 

478
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:58,880
already like that's 6300 of them
right there. 

479
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,240
Not even counting Winterfell 
men. 

480
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,240
So I It's kind of hard for the 
Umber Men to have brought more 

481
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,480
than the Carhold men. 
It's possible the Umberlands are

482
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,360
tighter together. 
Or maybe they got the message 

483
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:09,920
first. 
There's a lot of yeah, we can't 

484
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,640
read into it too much, but. 
Just bringing 1000 men versus 

485
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,480
2300 men could be the difference
in how long it takes. 

486
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,480
It's a lot longer to gather them
together, equip them, move them 

487
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:19,600
and so on so. 
Agree. 

488
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,360
Agree. 
Yeah, so I suspect, and Speaking

489
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,720
of the Umbers, I suspect prior 
to the building of Car Hole, 

490
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,880
these lands that were that are 
now the Karstark lands were 

491
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,320
often contested by the Umbers 
and the Boltons. 

492
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,360
They'd have been the two most 
powerful houses in the region. 

493
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,440
So they would have been where 
exactly is the border of their 

494
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,240
lands? 
Right. 

495
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,800
Like, I'm sure this is always an
issue for all these old kingdoms

496
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,680
and houses. 
Like, you don't necessarily have

497
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,320
a clean board. 
Sometimes you have like a stream

498
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,840
that marks it quite nicely, but 
that's not going to circle the 

499
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,040
entire region. 
You know, like you don't. 

500
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,880
You often have issues of exactly
where borders are, and sometimes

501
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,120
you put stones down to mark. 
There's different ways to mark 

502
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:57,520
these things, but these things 
get argued over and fought over 

503
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,160
sometimes. 
You know we talked about it 

504
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:04,160
later that that kind of compare 
and contrast Karstark and Umber.

505
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,040
This is another example that 
kind of fits that the Umber 

506
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,840
might have been a little bit 
quicker to move, like he's a 

507
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,920
little bit more like Outspoken 
and and. 

508
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:14,360
Aggressive. 
Yeah. 

509
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:14,880
A brash? 
Yeah. 

510
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,560
Works. 
That works. 

511
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,080
Karstark is starts off a little 
slower. 

512
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,440
He, like he might in the end be 
just as serious or just as 

513
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,480
dangerous, but isn't is 
immediately reactive. 

514
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,480
Yeah, he's more like they are 
sort of like a left and right. 

515
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,280
They do function sort of as 
Rob's left and right hands in a 

516
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,800
lot of scenarios, especially 
early on, and one of them is the

517
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,880
more loud, angry, bold, blustery
where the other is. 

518
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,840
Yeah, the other is more quiet 
and intense, but just as 

519
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,120
dangerous. 
But you I can also imagine that 

520
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,560
might get him there faster 
because like, all right, I got 

521
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,600
we got to go. 
Yeah. 

522
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,320
And he might have brought less 
men than he could have if he 

523
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:51,800
slowed down and planned it a 
little better. 

524
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,960
And Karstar took his time, 
wasn't as quick but maybe did a 

525
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,080
better job. 
I don't, I don't know. 

526
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,560
But. 
For the record, both houses 

527
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,200
complain that too many men were 
taken. 

528
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,600
Both houses suffered, bringing 
in the Harvest, Umber and 

529
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,160
Carstock. 
Probably other northern houses 

530
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,320
too, but in particular those two
are mentioned in particular. 

531
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,080
So they were very eager to 
support their king at the cost 

532
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,760
of winter and cost of feeding 
their people. 

533
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,160
So it was it was it was a 
problem. 

534
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,680
It was a big problem. 
So when the Dread when Car Hold 

535
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,440
was built, I suspect it was a 
problem for both the Dread Ford 

536
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,960
and Last Hearth, but probably a 
bigger problem for the Bolton's 

537
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,720
because they were the ones who 
had rebelled so many times and 

538
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,840
they were probably who this was 
somewhat aimed at. 

539
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,160
But there were also likely lots 
of marriages between these 

540
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,960
neighbors. 
Like I'm sure there have been 

541
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,480
many kar Stark Umber marriages 
and kar stark Bolton marriages. 

542
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,840
Maybe that I'm not as sure about
there had like apparently there 

543
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,440
haven't been Stark Bolton 
marriages until the non the fake

544
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Aria Ramsay marriage. 
Well, it's a real marriage, but 

545
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,320
not a real, not a real Stark. 
That's my question is, in a in a

546
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,160
culture that's so against 
Kinsling, is there a certain 

547
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,400
understanding that maybe you 
shouldn't marry some of these 

548
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,240
folks 'cause you don't want to 
then just lock your your 

549
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,440
descendants into Kinsling? 
Interesting. 

550
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,080
Well, you. 
Know, like, maybe someone's 

551
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,560
like, I want to make nice with 
the Boltons, but maybe they're 

552
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,360
like, hey, we fought them for 
eons. 

553
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,480
Maybe we don't want our houses 
to be united as one. 

554
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,800
Yeah, you're right to not to 
say. 

555
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,560
Maybe we shouldn't assume the 
Boltons and Karstarks have 

556
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,080
married. 
It's that's a that's a good 

557
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,400
potential exception, but I 
wouldn't assume it. 

558
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,000
We do know the Starks and 
Karstarks have married. 

559
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,000
That probably didn't start right
away because of the the 

560
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,400
proximity. 
And you know, that's that's 

561
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,880
pretty incestuous, even though 
we've seen like even the current

562
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Starks have a first cousin 
marriage. 

563
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,880
This would be even closer to 
that, at least if they did it 

564
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,040
right away. 
You know, if you wait a few 

565
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,360
generations then you know it's 
all it's very different, but. 

566
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,880
That idea though, O'Shea is, I 
mean, it could go either way. 

567
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,960
It's it is a double edged sword.
But that is the reason you want 

568
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,600
to have these marriages, because
it stops the canceling, it stops

569
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,680
the warring, right. 
So yeah, Hope. 

570
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:54,760
You I. 
But if you don't. 

571
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,800
Want to stop the warring? 
If you want to be able to hold 

572
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,560
your grudges, then don't get 
married to them. 

573
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,000
Well, it's like 1 if you don't 
want to stop the warring, 2 if 

574
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,560
you are a realist and you 
realize that it might not stop 

575
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,800
the warring and it means that 
your line is going to be doomed,

576
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,640
you know to ignominy will 
continue. 

577
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,560
And you will have this new 
blight on your honor or. 

578
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:15,880
Whatever. 
It's kind of a rock and a hard 

579
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,400
place kind of situation. 
I can see why. 

580
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,640
It might just depend on current 
circumstances because yeah, both

581
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,040
of these there's some severe 
downsides to either approach. 

582
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:27,240
So returning to the topic of how
northern these guys are now, 

583
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,400
they're farther N make some sort
of more northern than a lot of 

584
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,800
other houses. 
Like Alice Karstark was worried 

585
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,760
that Jon Snow would turn her 
away from Castle Black because 

586
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,600
she was. 
She thought she was concerned 

587
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,840
there would be a blood feud 
between their houses because of 

588
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,000
Rob's execution of her father 
and then what came after which 

589
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,800
was all sorts of nasty business 
that we'll get into. 

590
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,320
But it's a reasonable thing like
yeah like if if apparently 

591
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,520
that's a normal attitude that 
some northerners would have 

592
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,040
would have had she was worried 
that John would have done 

593
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,800
something relatively common but 
he didn't and he's like well I'm

594
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:02,760
nights watch we give away our he
didn't say no we don't have 

595
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,200
blood She's like I get you know 
I'm nights watch we don't have 

596
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,000
blood fuse he didn't say that 
the conditions weren't met. 

597
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,520
He's like, I my situation 
Trump's any of those 

598
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,840
considerations. 
So, you know it was it was sort 

599
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,840
of a dodge. 
But he, of course, he's not 

600
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,440
actually like mad at her or 
anything. 

601
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,600
I don't think he like feels he 
he might be mad at the 

602
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,360
Karstarks, but he's not mad at 
her, 'cause I do think he has 

603
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:26,560
that loyalty to Rob and probably
is probably would hate Lord 

604
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,960
Rickard if he met him, but if he
obviously that's not possible. 

605
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,760
But you know, you see what I'm 
saying. 

606
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,280
I think there probably is a 
little wariness there, but it's 

607
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,240
not personal. 
I I got the idea too that she 

608
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,080
was being. 
I don't know how to say this. 

609
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,360
She was like leveling with him. 
She's like we've got bigger 

610
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,160
concerns, right? 
Like you're not going to get 

611
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,640
hung up on. 
I'm not hung up on this. 

612
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,440
You're not right. 
Like we're better than this, 

613
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,600
right. 
You know, that's that's how I. 

614
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,440
Yeah, she was. 
You're I I appreciate that too, 

615
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,880
'cause she's very direct. 
She's like, look, do we have a 

616
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,920
problem? 
Like let me just address this 

617
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,040
now, the elephant in the room 
and he's like, Nah, we don't 

618
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,760
have a problem. 
So it also has a role in how 

619
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,800
they view the South. 
Like the more northern you are, 

620
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,000
the different your view of the 
South. 

621
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,560
Like the more things you hear 
from rumor and the more like the

622
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,000
cultures are just different. 
Just look at how the culture 

623
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,600
clashes of Beyond the Wall are 
and and whatever you'd see from 

624
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,880
like the car starts be just 
that. 

625
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,120
But like a smaller version, it 
wouldn't be quite so distinct. 

626
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,040
And Bran notes, they're larger. 
He's like, these are bigger 

627
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,280
guys. 
And that's also a thing about 

628
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,360
being from the farther N you 
know, the farther N you go, the 

629
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,320
larger a lot of the people are, 
which is pretty much true in the

630
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,320
real world. 
The largest people in on earth 

631
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,800
are Norwegians, if I remember 
correctly in Dutch. 

632
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,600
Like they're, you know, like in 
it depends on weight and height 

633
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,080
and things like that. 
But yeah, at least currently 

634
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,240
that's the study I saw. 
Maybe that's not true, but I've 

635
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,920
read that recently and it's the 
same thing in the animal 

636
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,160
Kingdom. 
Like larger cold weather animals

637
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,480
are bigger because layers of fat
protect your internal organs 

638
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,520
from all that, all that cold. 
So yeah. 

639
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,000
And it also another superstition
that that Alice's mother had. 

640
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,920
We don't know who Alice's mother
was, but she believed snow 

641
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,720
during a marriage meant a cold 
marriage. 

642
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,480
Like, that's not a Southern 
superstition. 

643
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,520
I don't think. 
Maybe it is, but it sounds 

644
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,240
northern to me. 
So, like, I and I never heard of

645
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,000
that from, like Sansa or anyone 
else. 

646
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,880
So that's maybe something that 
is is a belief that's held 

647
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,600
farther north than than even 
Winterfell. 

648
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,920
I don't know. 
Now moving on to the Targaryen 

649
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,160
era, because we just 
unfortunately we don't know a 

650
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,200
lot about that time period for 
most of Westeros, let alone 

651
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,720
House, Car, Stark. 
It's kind of an empty period. 

652
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,840
Honestly, if someone wants to 
write future stories in 

653
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,400
Westeros, it's a pretty good 
time period to pick up because 

654
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,080
it's pretty untouched even by 
George. 

655
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,360
And I wonder about things from 
that area as we're moving past 

656
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,840
it. 
I still would guess that there's

657
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,760
like had some car, stark skin 
changers and maybe a green 

658
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,880
dreamer or two and you got to 
wonder how that would have 

659
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,560
played out. 
I'm sure they have heart trees 

660
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,760
there. 
I mean that's a a given that 

661
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,440
they built their castle around a
heart tree. 

662
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,160
We don't know that for a fact, 
but it's 99. 

663
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,920
We think we can assume it with a
99.9% rate there. 

664
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,800
And the Gray cliffs being 
nearby, there's probably caves 

665
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,320
there. 
It might have been some, like if

666
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,760
I was a person growing up, a car
hold, that might be a thing you 

667
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,280
go do is go explore the caves, 
you know, and maybe you find 

668
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,400
Obsidian, maybe you find things 
left behind by the children, old

669
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,920
bones, who knows? 
Runes, carvings, cool stuff like

670
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,040
that. 
Access to the greater depth 

671
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,320
caves that we see bran have 
access to beyond the wall. 

672
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,280
Who knows? 
Not that I expect they connect, 

673
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,160
but maybe they do really far 
down. 

674
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,560
Not in a way that would affect 
the story. 

675
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,440
But you know, if we were had a 
full map of all the caves, 

676
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,000
they'd probably connect 
somewhere. 

677
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,800
There's been 3 Stark car, Stark 
marriages that we know of. 

678
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,040
There's probably been more, 
especially because the three 

679
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,040
that we know of have all been 
within the last 180 years during

680
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,120
that dead zone of history that 
we don't know much about. 

681
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,240
There's probably been a few 
more. 

682
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,560
The difference there is those 
would have been marriages in the

683
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,200
time of Stark kings. 
This is now Stark Lord. 

684
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,600
So a little bit more prominent 
back then. 

685
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,400
Carhold existed for roughly 7 
centuries before the coming of 

686
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,840
the Dragons. 
There were Shirley Kar Stark men

687
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,520
in King Turen's host. 
It was a much bigger host than 

688
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,680
what Rob brought South, and 
there were Karhold men in that 

689
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,240
one, so pretty likely they were 
Kar Stark men. 

690
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,200
In the in Torrent Starks host as
well You might. 

691
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,920
You might understand though, why
you know, like early on the 

692
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,120
Starks didn't marry the Kar 
Starks because they were still 

693
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,760
Starks, but they hadn't even 
probably become Kar Starks yet. 

694
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,080
They're still probably called 
Karhold Starks, but over time, 

695
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,120
you know, who knows when. 
But some at some point, they 

696
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,840
were like, you know what? 
This isn't so incestuous. 

697
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,680
You've got a whole new name. 
We can go ahead and do this 

698
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,440
right? 
Yeah. 

699
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,600
And we want to keep those dread.
We want to keep that dread for, 

700
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,680
you know, boxed in, you know, 
like we said. 

701
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,080
Maybe there weren't that many 
marriages before, but once the 

702
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,600
target Targaryens took over, 
like, yeah, incest isn't so bad,

703
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,480
I guess. 
It all that's the real trickle 

704
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,400
down effect, right. 
It's not trickle down economics,

705
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,720
it's trickle down behaviors like
that. 

706
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:57,240
Trickle down incestonomic. 
Yeah. 

707
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,240
So the first one of these people
of the Stark bride would be 

708
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Margaret Karstark, A 
surprisingly earthbound name. 

709
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,520
There's no like, he didn't put 
like, AY in there to change it 

710
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:08,920
slightly. 
It's not like murgaret. 

711
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,080
That sounds like something 
George would do. 

712
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,320
Margaret, you know. 
But no, it's Margaret Karstark. 

713
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,120
And so married to Bernard, who 
is the second son of Winterfell,

714
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,520
kind of like Carlin Stark. 
But this Bernard was not someone

715
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,360
that made other Starks proud. 
So Margaret was born somewhere 

716
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,120
between 100 and 112 AC, roughly 
around the time of Viserys. 

717
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,880
The first around King Viserys 
the you know, inactive or 

718
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,640
whatever all the many different 
names we called him. 

719
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,920
And the great Council you know, 
was in one O 2 and all that. 

720
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,560
So that was it's all that 
region. 

721
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,120
She might have been born just 
before the old King's death or 

722
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,840
maybe right after it some 
sometime around then. 

723
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:48,640
Anyway. 
I. 

724
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,440
I just wanted to make a joke. 
We we talked about Herrin's 

725
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,560
nickname. 
Yeah, I'm wondering if Bernard's

726
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,080
nickname was Bernard Dog. 
Yeah, you can't. 

727
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,120
You had anger issues. 
Yeah, you have Bernard and 

728
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,200
Benjen and like 2 Ben's like how
you going to? 

729
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,400
And of course there was a 
Brandon next cause of course 

730
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,320
there was And then an Elrick. 
That one's not as common like, 

731
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,639
all right, an Elrick that's 
probably named after Elrick of 

732
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,639
Melnabone, a fantasy series that
has influenced so many. 

733
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,719
But they all three of those sons
and Bernard were imprisoned by 

734
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,159
Lord Kragen Stark when he came 
of age because Bernard was 

735
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:26,840
Regent for Kragen. 
And when Kragen turned 16, he 

736
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,040
was like, yeah, I'll give you 
your Lordship next week. 

737
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,520
I'll give it to you next week. 
It just kept pushing it off. 

738
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,360
And eventually Craig and, like, 
got some dudes together and and 

739
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,440
took his title back by force and
put those dudes in jail. 

740
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,120
I don't know what happened to 
them, whether he sent them to 

741
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,480
the wall or whether they were 
let out eventually. 

742
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,520
No idea how that ended. 
I doubt he executed them because

743
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,800
that would be Ken slaying. 
And it's not like they were that

744
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,400
bad to him. 
You know, holding him out of 

745
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,960
power is not, you know, they 
they it was dishonorable. 

746
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,800
But it's not like they tried to 
murder him or something. 

747
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,840
So I I don't. 
I think they probably settled it

748
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,160
all without violence, as far as 
we know. 

749
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,600
Knows what else went on in the 
background? 

750
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,360
Yeah, many of these little tips 
of the iceberg that we find out 

751
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,520
about that you could probably 
have a three season adventure 

752
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,280
drama about. 
It yeah, this is the dance of 

753
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,040
the dire wolves right here. 
It's a miniature version of the 

754
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,400
Dance of the Dragons for sure. 
I've given it that name before. 

755
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,840
And of course we discussed this 
in our Kragen episode, AKA the 

756
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,400
Old Man of the North. 
They got a whole episode on him 

757
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,640
and you might even you might see
some Karstarks in the House of 

758
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,400
the Dragon since it's going 
north. 

759
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,320
Margaret's identity is a 
Karstark that may have driven 

760
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,120
Craigen to become close to 
Aranori. 

761
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,320
Remember Craigen? 
That was his childhood like 

762
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,200
close person, close friend and 
married her. 

763
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,240
But then she died. 
So between Margaret Karstark and

764
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:51,040
Bernard's mother who is Lysa 
Locke, if again, if you're 

765
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,920
taking a quick look at the map, 
you see the eastern and 

766
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,680
northeastern part of the north. 
Like that's a big power block of

767
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:03,520
traditional Northerners, whereas
Kragen the Nori's aren't that 

768
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,520
powerful by comparison, they're 
one of the Hillclan houses. 

769
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,960
So that might have been why 
Bernard felt comfortable making 

770
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,960
this move, as he felt like he 
had all this backing whereas the

771
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,440
actual Lord of Winterfell 
didn't. 

772
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,400
So he thought he could pull this
off, but Kragen was able to get 

773
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,440
some support from here and there
and yeah. 

774
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,040
And sorry, I got to follow up 
with another I wonder if Bernard

775
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,520
Dog talked much about the 
Karstark Sun God. 

776
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,960
He probably shut up about the 
sun. 

777
00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:39,800
Yeah, he probably did. 
He probably did. 

778
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,760
He loves that sun. 
It's his favorite. 

779
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,240
You know, I doubt there were any
marriages between this 

780
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:47,880
generation of star guitar star, 
given Kragen was not on good 

781
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,240
terms of these. 
But even if it didn't come to 

782
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:52,760
blood, though it might have, I I
doubt there was. 

783
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,160
You know, they were. 
They solved things to the point 

784
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,200
that there were marriages, but 
maybe there were. 

785
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,520
You never know that that's often
a tool to build peace. 

786
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,640
So maybe that's they 
specifically did that in order 

787
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,120
in order to settle things. 
Either way, it didn't cause a 

788
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,080
long term problem with Car Hole 
because as we see at the 

789
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,120
beginning of A Song of Ice and 
Fire, Rickard's all about it. 

790
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,280
He's all about the North, you 
know, and about the Starks. 

791
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,800
Now Alice Karstark is the next 
one. 

792
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,680
Not to be confused with current 
timeline Alice Karstark, it was 

793
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,160
a different Alice Karstark, just
like that's a different Brandon 

794
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,280
Stark and a different Benjin 
Stark and all that. 

795
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,800
We don't know what relation 
Alice and Margaret are, but 

796
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,160
they're not super far apart in 
age. 

797
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,200
I don't mean they couldn't be 
sisters, but Craigen's youngest 

798
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,240
son, Brandon, his fifth son, 
well, his fifth with that wife 

799
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,360
was married. 
This Alice, Carstark and all 

800
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,360
current Starks descend from this
marriage. 

801
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,840
Now, Brandon's older brother 
Barthegan, who never had kids. 

802
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,120
That's why the Lordship passed 
from Barthegan to Brandon. 

803
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,280
Barthegan's nickname was Barth 
Blacksword. 

804
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,680
I'm sure some of you have heard 
that before. 

805
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,360
He was killed during a rebellion
of the Skagosi. 

806
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,160
So that's how Brandon became 
Lord, because his older brother 

807
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,120
died without issue fighting the 
Skagosi. 

808
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,320
Alice's brothers, uncles and 
cousins, this Alice Carr shark 

809
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,840
also likely fought against the 
Skagosi as well. 

810
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,960
I mean, they are very close to 
Carhold, you know, in terms of 

811
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,480
northern geography. 
So it's very likely the Carhold 

812
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,480
men were a big part of that, 
putting down the Skagosi, and 

813
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,400
they may have had to travel to 
had two Skagos to do that. 

814
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,800
They also had Alice and Kragen's
youngest Brandon. 

815
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,640
They also had Rodwell, Baron and
Arsa. 

816
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,920
Rodwell is my favorite Stark 
name 'cause it just sounds like 

817
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:40,360
a porn star name. 
It seems out of place where I'm 

818
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,000
not, even though Starks would be
so serious. 

819
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,240
And then Devino and it's like 
this guy supported him. 

820
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:46,400
And who says he can't be 
serious? 

821
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,360
Yeah, he's a serious porn star. 
And his he used his Blair and 

822
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,920
Steel sword very well. 
The line continued through Baron

823
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,520
after that. 
So we have Brandon marrying 

824
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,560
Alice, and they had Rodwell, 
Baron and Arsa. 

825
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,600
Rodwell was killed and Baron was
also killed, but he had kids 

826
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,960
first. 
And Arsa, you know, I don't 

827
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,000
know. 
We don't really know what 

828
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,960
happened to Arsa, but the line 
also can enter through Baron. 

829
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,240
Baron married Laura Roy, so they
had seven children. 

830
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,080
Nina thinks that Alice Carstark,
this Alice Carstark will 

831
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:17,920
absolutely be in the She Wolves 
of Winterfell. 

832
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,800
Whatever the final title for 
that comes, which is was 

833
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,200
originally going to be the 4th 
Duncan Egg novella is now going 

834
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,240
to be the 5th. 
And the original description of 

835
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,200
it was five Lady Starks running 
Winterfell with four of them 

836
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,920
widows of a bunch of fairly 
recent former Lord Starks. 

837
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,960
Alice was would have been the 
recent would have been the widow

838
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,880
of the late Lord Brandon, who is
the second most recent of those 

839
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,760
widows, the most recent being 
Baron, who died, who's dying. 

840
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,040
As the story starts, assuming 
George keeps it that way. 

841
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:51,000
So that's just a great option. 
Like George Loves Athena points 

842
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,800
out, George loves characters 
like Olena and and Barbary, 

843
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,800
Dustin and characters like this 
kind of older and confident 

844
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,400
sassy types. 
He, he could go off with that 

845
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,520
here. 
There could be like five of 

846
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,680
them, you know, of varying ages,
like of like the oldest to 

847
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,040
people, you know, like a 40 year
old or even younger than that. 

848
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,080
Yeah, just all of them 
interplaying with each other and

849
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,800
a little bit of a power struggle
there through their children. 

850
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,560
That'd be pretty interesting. 
So it was their second son, 

851
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,440
Willem, who continued the line 
of Lord Lee Starks by having Ed 

852
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:23,600
while. 
Right. 

853
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,200
So Willem is one of those seven 
children through that, through 

854
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,080
the descent of Alice Karstark. 
Willem was killed at the battle 

855
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,800
of 226 in Long Lake Long, The 
Battle of Long Lake Rather in in

856
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,560
the year 226 by Raymond 
Redbeard, whose descendants are 

857
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,160
still around, that's who. 
Stannis and Queens at least try 

858
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,000
to make King of the Wildlings, 
'cause they're like they're all 

859
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,000
stuck on bloodlines and things 
like that. 

860
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,080
But Raymond Redbeard in turn, at
the same battle, was slain by 

861
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,320
Artos, the implacable Willem's 
brother, Grandma Alice Karstark 

862
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,640
was probably still around. 
She probably would have mourned 

863
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,560
Willem, but been proud of Artos.
That's a pretty straightforward 

864
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,560
reaction to your grandchild 
dying and your other grandchild 

865
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,200
being the hero. 
Artos went on to become Regent 

866
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,400
for young Lord Edweil, his 
nephew, and unlike Bernard, 

867
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,360
there was no shenanigans, no 
clinging to power. 

868
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,520
When the time came, he gave 
power up to Lord Edwild. 

869
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,120
And again, that's Ned's 
grandfather. 

870
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,680
And and we can be pretty sure of
this because Artos was given a 

871
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,520
statue in the crypts. 
Like, you don't get that if 

872
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,240
you're remembered poorly and you
know, and if you forcibly do 

873
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:28,280
that, they're like to just take 
it out after your death. 

874
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,120
Like. 
It's a really bad statue. 

875
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,080
It's a bad likeness. 
He looks ugly and it was an 

876
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:34,880
insult. 
They gave him a clown face. 

877
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,440
Yeah, it's like, what is that? 
You know, you're like going 

878
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,840
through the crypts and it's all 
scary. 

879
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,320
You're like, oh, bearded men 
with their fierce wolves and 

880
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,080
like, wait, that guy, is that a 
clown? 

881
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,200
You think that makes it less 
scary? 

882
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,960
OK, good point. 
That might be scary. 

883
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,200
You're right. 
That might be the scariest Stark

884
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,280
statue of all. 
I should pick something less 

885
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,640
scary than a clown. 
So yeah, Arthas has a statue 

886
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,720
despite not being a Lord, and he
was given the hand of a daughter

887
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,480
of car hole. 
That's why this, this line, this

888
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,600
line continues, this story just 
we don't have to start over to 

889
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,320
talk about a different Karstark,
a different Stark. 

890
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,560
It just follows the pattern 
here. 

891
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,600
So yes, Lysara Karstark married 
Arthas. 

892
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,240
So we've got another Karstark 
marriage right then very close 

893
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,760
together, relatively speaking. 
This is why I guess there were 

894
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,120
more Karstark Stark marriages 
back before the time when our 

895
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,360
histories tell us what was going
on at all, because these three 

896
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,440
all happened in relatively close
succession. 

897
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,280
So you kind of guess that it 
didn't just start all of a 

898
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,960
sudden and you know, probably 
were some before. 

899
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,720
And then Ricard Karstark tried 
to marry Alice to rob, like when

900
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,040
they were young. 
He he maybe was too aggressive 

901
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,920
about that. 
He tried to get them friendly 

902
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,440
when not like hooking up 
obviously when they were six and

903
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:49,440
eight. 
But he wanted them to become 

904
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,240
friends. 
He thought Alice could charm rob

905
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:54,600
like when she was six, you know,
like, all right. 

906
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,800
I mean she's does seem charming 
so you know I wouldn't put it 

907
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,840
past her. 
She could have it's yeah, like 

908
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,360
you're right. 
Like it definitely. 

909
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,000
Like he might have been on to 
something there. 

910
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,520
But you know I guess Ned didn't 
sign on to that or catelynd and 

911
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,280
they weren't up for that. 
But, like, if you look at their 

912
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,200
pattern, they weren't. 
They hadn't betrothed any of 

913
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,760
their kids, even seven years 
later. 

914
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,640
So. 
Yeah, I think Nita points this 

915
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,640
out too. 
They weren't necessarily 

916
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,560
shutting down Car Stark. 
They might not have just been. 

917
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,040
We're holding off on all 
marriages. 

918
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,840
Yeah, yeah. 
Which is I think a better. 

919
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:24,760
You're right, that's a better 
point. 

920
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,800
Nita says that she's right 
because it wasn't the car. 

921
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,440
Stark specifically. 
They they didn't do any 

922
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,360
marriage. 
No betrothals. 

923
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,480
They were waiting longer for 
that probably because of the 

924
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,480
entanglements and what's, you 
know, there's no reason to rush 

925
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,400
into it. 
And a lot of a lot of things 

926
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520
that have gone bad for them by 
by those such entanglements. 

927
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,560
So they're like, let's not put 
our kids through that. 

928
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,000
See, I think if they were real 
cunning with it, they wouldn't 

929
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,640
have pushed it as a pairing for 
Rob at all. 

930
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,080
They would have said Sansa needs
a little friend. 

931
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,600
They would have just. 
Ingratiated Alice by sending her

932
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,160
for Sansa and Aria. 
Of course, sounds like Alice 

933
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,480
would have gotten along better 
with Aria. 

934
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,960
Yeah, sounds been like no, 
you're too. 

935
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,400
You're too much like Aria. 
Like who would end up being like

936
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,400
she they were trying to get get 
her to romance Rob and she'd 

937
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,200
just fall for John and you know?
George could have done that, the

938
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,080
triangle that way and said 
because OK, so y'all, if you 

939
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,200
remember the original original 
way, long ago 1993 plan was for 

940
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:24,080
there to be a love triangle with
John, Aria and Tyrion, right? 

941
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,680
Yeah, Tyrion was going to love 
Aria. 

942
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,040
It wasn't really a triangle 
then, because no one was going 

943
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,520
to love Tyrion in. 
That group, John. 

944
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,600
Yeah, yeah, John, it wasn't a 
triangle. 

945
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,040
Tyrion was going to love Ari. 
Ari was going to love John and 

946
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:36,440
whatever. 
Not a triangle. 

947
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,320
Some sort of weird trapezoidal. 
I think we're creation go that 

948
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,520
way, yeah. 
There's enough, yeah. 

949
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,520
There's enough incest elsewhere 
in the story. 

950
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,560
We don't need that from from our
characters that we most see as 

951
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,600
the most heroic, although plenty
flawed. 

952
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,840
So yeah, I agree that it wasn't 
because of it was a car Stark 

953
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,120
suggestion. 
It was because of their ages and

954
00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,120
and just waiting in general. 
Like Ned was shocked to the 

955
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,240
Joffrey Sansa marriage. 
He was like, oh, I don't want to

956
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:02,880
do that. 
But he didn't. 

957
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,640
He couldn't really say no after 
they'd talked about it. 

958
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,880
I was like, no, if you say no, 
then they might think you're 

959
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,200
something's up and it might 
cause problems within our 

960
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,720
houses. 
And that's a bigger problem. 

961
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,880
So let's talk about recent 
history, as in the last like. 30

962
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:23,880
By the way, Hindsight 2020. 
But what bigger a problem could 

963
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,360
there have been? 
Yeah. 

964
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,720
Were you? 
Worried a civil war might break 

965
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,000
out? 
Yeah, that's definitely. 

966
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,120
SAMSA might get taken prisoner 
or what? 

967
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Yeah, they would have if they 
just said no to robber like no, 

968
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:35,840
yeah, it would have definitely 
gone back. 

969
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,000
Like it's hard to imagine it 
going worse. 

970
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,720
You're right. 
So Rickard has been lured at 

971
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,440
least the time or at least since
the time of Aries because he 

972
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:49,200
raised his banners for Ned at 
during the Roberts rebellion, so

973
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,520
we know he was there for that. 
So he's between Ricard and he's 

974
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,000
rather between Ricard and Ned 
and age, meaning Ricard Ned's 

975
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,720
father because Lord Ricard 
Carstark was named for Lord 

976
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,200
Ricard Stark. 
So obviously he's younger than 

977
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,000
him because he couldn't have 
been named for him if they was 

978
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,640
born before him. 
So maybe, I would think maybe 

979
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,840
Ricard was around the age of 
Brandon, Ned's older brother, 

980
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,160
but he's fully Gray by the time 
of A Game of Thrones, so he's 

981
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:13,320
probably a little older than 
that. 

982
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,800
So I'm guessing he may have been
in his late 40s also because 

983
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,520
this is an intense guy, This is 
an intense, gloomy man. 

984
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,640
He may have gone Gray a little 
prematurely, you know, it 

985
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,120
doesn't seem like he lived a low
stress lifestyle kind of guy 

986
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,680
that really clings to 
grievances. 

987
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,800
To be fair, the things that 
happened to him are really 

988
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,920
nasty, like he does suffer 
intense losses. 

989
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,560
So, but it seemed like he was 
kind of like you could see the 

990
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,440
way he handles it, that this is 
just the kind of way, the kind 

991
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,640
of guy that holds grudges in the
1st place, the kind of guy that 

992
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,800
holds to revenge and won't 
forget an insult. 

993
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,880
So he he we assume he was at the
battle to try that. 

994
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,880
He may have seen Rhaegar die. 
He might have been close, but 

995
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,560
probably not, because Ned came 
up on that a little bit later 

996
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,720
and he was probably closer to 
Ned than he was to Robert. 

997
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:56,320
Given which army he would have 
Army group he would have been a 

998
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:57,840
part of, he would have been part
of the Northern army. 

999
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,160
I think at one point he says he 
stood with Eddard at the 

1000
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:03,320
Trident. 
Yeah, yeah, I believe so. 

1001
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:04,800
Yeah. 
So he, his history with the 

1002
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,640
Northern, with the Starks, goes 
back quite a ways is he had a 

1003
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,520
history of loyalty. 
He was a good Lord that 

1004
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,400
supported Winterfell like there 
was no reason to doubt him at 

1005
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,880
1st, and the Great John's been 
Lord for a while as well. 

1006
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,760
I don't know if he's been at 
Lord for as long as Lord Rickard

1007
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,560
has. 
I think Rickard's a little older

1008
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,000
than Great John, but they were 
also just. 

1009
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,080
They've known each other for a 
while. 

1010
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,640
They've been neighboring Lords 
for a good amount of time and it

1011
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,880
just shows up in their 
relationship as the sort of left

1012
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,960
and right hands of of Rob. 
Now other kin of Rickard we 

1013
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,160
mentioned like Arnulf Karstark 
and his son Craig and and his 

1014
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,760
other son Arthor who are going 
to come up in the second-half of

1015
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,840
this episode. 
They may have also fought in the

1016
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,520
War of 5 Kings or not the War of
5 Kings, but the Robert 

1017
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,480
rebellion, Arnulf certainly old 
enough. 

1018
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,160
He's older than Rickard, he's 
the brother to Rickard's father 

1019
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,720
and Craig and Arthur are around 
Rickard's age. 

1020
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,960
I think Arthor is younger, but I
mean still not so young that he 

1021
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,800
would wouldn't have, would have 
been too young for Robert 

1022
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,080
Tribellion. 
So his loyalty, this is a long 

1023
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,440
term thing, like there's every 
reason not to doubt him, every 

1024
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,120
reason to think he would be a 
good warrior at the side of Rob 

1025
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,240
for a long time. 
We saw his arrival in our first 

1026
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,720
quote. 
Rob and him and the great John 

1027
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:19,680
make plans in private, the the 
upper Lords go talk in private 

1028
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,840
and Bran is left to act as host 
while Rob is off doing Lowe's 

1029
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,560
lordly duties. 
And this is when we meet the 

1030
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,840
three Karstark sons quote. 
I welcome you to our fires, Fran

1031
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,680
said stiffly. 
And offer you meet and meet in 

1032
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,040
honor of our friendship. 
Harry and Karstark, the oldest 

1033
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,880
of Lord Rickard's sons, bowed, 
and his brothers after him. 

1034
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,800
Yet as they settled back in 
their places, he heard the 

1035
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,840
younger two talking in low 
voices over the clatter of wine 

1036
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,400
cups. 
Sooner died and live like that, 

1037
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,000
muttered one his father's 
namesake, Eddard and his 

1038
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,440
brother, Tauren said. 
Likely the boy was broken inside

1039
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,800
as well as out to Craven to take
his own life now. 

1040
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,520
It's not like Bran has like 
super hearing or something and 

1041
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:11,160
this is like a crowded room. 
So these two brothers Karstark 

1042
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,800
were not being very careful with
their volume. 

1043
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,520
This is very rude and insulting 
and does not reflect well on 

1044
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,520
them. 
So when Bran, this is when Bran 

1045
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,600
had first has the thought Am I 
broken? 

1046
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,320
Am I Bran the broken? 
Remember, he never says that out

1047
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,320
loud. 
He never once says Bran the 

1048
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,920
broken out loud. 
No no one ever says that title 

1049
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,440
out loud except for the TV show.
But in the books he never says 

1050
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:35,480
that. 
It's only something he thinks. 

1051
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,240
So, so, so they named Bran the 
Broken. 

1052
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:39,880
We have the Karstarks just to 
think. 

1053
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,520
Yeah. 
So they kind of did. 

1054
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,480
Yeah, Indirectly, yeah. 
So at least the older brother, 

1055
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,680
Harrien, does not participate in
that. 

1056
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,160
He doesn't seem to remark on 
that cruelly like his younger 

1057
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,040
brothers do, so it doesn't 
reflect on him. 

1058
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,080
Not that he's necessarily a good
guy, but he's not. 

1059
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,320
I'm not that these two guys are 
necessarily bad guys, but that 

1060
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,520
certainly reflects poorly on 
him. 

1061
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,120
That's a very rude, insulting, 
cruel thing to do. 

1062
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,560
At least keep your voice down if
you're going to say that. 

1063
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:13,800
You know, soon after they all 
marched S with the Host Rob's 

1064
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,040
army. 
And Lord Ricard claims one of 

1065
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,320
the towers at MO Kalin. 
There's only a few towers there,

1066
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,320
which means he kind of shows how
he's sort of got, he's pretty 

1067
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,280
high up, you know, great John 
gets one of them. 

1068
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:30,280
And later Alice Karstark 
confronts Jon Snow about her 

1069
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,600
father's execution. 
She's like, what the heck you 

1070
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,800
know, he he killed Lannister as 
he gets executed for killing 

1071
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,120
Lannister. 
So it's clear she doesn't have 

1072
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,600
the whole story. 
And John requires John, you 

1073
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,680
know, tells her he's like, look,
he killed unarmed prisoners. 

1074
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,160
They were boys. 
Unarmed boys in prison quote. 

1075
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,480
The girl did not seem surprised.
My father never bellowed like 

1076
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,880
the great John, but he was no 
less dangerous in his Roth. 

1077
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,360
He is dead now, too, though so 
is your brother. 

1078
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:02,680
But you and I are here, still 
living. 

1079
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,880
Is there blood feud between us, 
Lord Snow? 

1080
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,640
So not only did I bring that up 
earlier to point out that this 

1081
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,600
might be a northern value that's
held more tightly the farther N 

1082
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,200
you go about blood feuds, but 
she's the the daughter of a man 

1083
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:17,840
that is clearly believes in 
these things. 

1084
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,120
So she was raised in a household
where blood feuds are a thing, 

1085
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,520
you know, and that that matters.
So it's it makes sense that 

1086
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,120
would come to mind for her. 
And I love this comparison to 

1087
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,360
Great John here. 
It keeps coming up. 

1088
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,920
It's like, again, this, this 
sort of left right pairing of 

1089
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,760
Robb Stark's men. 
Of course he has other advisors,

1090
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,520
Blackfish being a big one, but 
Blackfish isn't a northerner. 

1091
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,520
Blackfish isn't there at the 
beginning, You know, he's 

1092
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,840
arguably a better advisor. 
Actually, I'd say it's a safe 

1093
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,360
bet that he's a better advisor, 
but nevertheless, there's 

1094
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,360
differences in in cultural 
separation there, and he's just 

1095
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,360
not in the story yet at that 
point, you know. 

1096
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,320
You know another, you know, 
nuance. 

1097
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,760
But I think important note to 
make here, the idea that she was

1098
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,800
probably confused about the idea
that her dad was executed for 

1099
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,000
killing Lannisters like that. 
That was the whole what it It 

1100
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,200
doesn't make sense to her, but 
think where she got the 

1101
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,520
information. 
From right they. 

1102
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,400
Come through her through this 
biased lens and she's probably 

1103
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,640
not the only one. 
Think how many other people out 

1104
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,960
there have this skewed 
perspective of what happened and

1105
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,120
what it would take to actually 
change the the knowledge that 

1106
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,240
the false knowledge that has 
been spread out there. 

1107
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:24,680
The nature of even modern times,
but but back then Especially how

1108
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,560
stories and rumors could spread 
and spark feuds and and ruin 

1109
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,520
alliances and whatnot else 
through something that just 

1110
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:33,480
isn't even true. 
Yeah. 

1111
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,640
And we see a lot of examples of 
this, like both people not doing

1112
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,120
something because they're afraid
of how it'll be perceived often 

1113
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,760
correctly or things that are. 
Like there's a rumor in Westeros

1114
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,160
that Danny killed her own 
brother. 

1115
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,520
Like, she obviously didn't do 
that, Drogo did that she had 

1116
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,200
nothing to do with it, you know.
And so that's a perfect example.

1117
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:53,560
And there's lots of examples 
like that later. 

1118
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,600
There's one that John doesn't 
take a certain action towards a 

1119
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,520
car Stark because of how he 
thinks it'll be perceived. 

1120
00:52:58,520 --> 00:52:59,680
So we'll see that in the 
second-half. 

1121
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:03,920
Coming back to this, another 
perfect example of their 

1122
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,480
personalities is when they 
approach the twins for the first

1123
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,160
time and see how well defended 
it is. 

1124
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,000
The great John starts cursing 
and swearing. 

1125
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,680
He's like damn it look at and 
Ricard quote glowered in 

1126
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,160
silence. 
Perfect like left and right. 

1127
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:22,960
You know night and day example 
of of how they handle discomfort

1128
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,000
or frustration or or things that
make them mad. 

1129
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,920
Now this gets under the radar a 
bit, which is that Lord Ricard 

1130
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:33,440
was one of the first people to 
suggest adding, linking up with 

1131
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,640
the River Lords, making them 
allies, and doing all that. 

1132
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:37,880
The great John wanted to go 
straight for Tywin. 

1133
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,400
Let's just go attack Tywin right
now. 

1134
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,360
And he's like, we don't have 
enough men. 

1135
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,160
We need allies. 
They're being attacked by the 

1136
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,880
West. 
They're they're they would 

1137
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,840
clearly join with us because we 
have the same enemy in common. 

1138
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,480
And we already have this 
connection between Stark and and

1139
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,240
Tully. 
So and here's where we get 

1140
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,280
another suggestion of just how. 
Like, let me use the example, 

1141
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,480
the Red Wedding. 
If you didn't catch the Red 

1142
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,640
Wedding, the foreshadowing for 
it on your first read, well, 

1143
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,240
you're like me. 
I didn't catch it either. 

1144
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,280
Like there were certain ominous 
decisions that were made, but I 

1145
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,920
didn't catch the dark. 
All the things when you're 

1146
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,160
looking for it, like, wow, 
there's a lot of build up to 

1147
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,400
this. 
The same thing is true for Lord 

1148
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,560
Rickard. 
It's a it's a smaller case, but 

1149
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,120
it's there. 
There's a lot of little things 

1150
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,000
about how vindictive he is, 
about how dangerous he is, about

1151
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,760
how violent he might get. 
It's just little hints, and 

1152
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,480
here's a good one. 
Here's one of them right here 

1153
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,040
Quote. 
Be certain, Catelyn told her 

1154
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,480
son. 
Or go home and take up that 

1155
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,920
wooden sword again. 
You cannot afford to seem 

1156
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,640
indecisive in front of men like 
Roose Bolton and Rickard 

1157
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,200
Karstar. 
Make no mistake, Rob. 

1158
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,160
These are your banner men, not 
your friends. 

1159
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:45,480
Like in retrospect, you 
wouldn't. 

1160
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,120
Like in your first time through 
you don't notice that he's she's

1161
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,480
comparing if she's lumping Roose
and Rickard together, like, 

1162
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,160
well, you're lumping someone 
together with Roose. 

1163
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:55,880
That's like, oh, that's a red 
flag. 

1164
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,760
But like this early in the 
story, you don't know Roose is 

1165
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,880
danger. 
He hasn't done a single betrayal

1166
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:01,600
thing. 
He hasn't done anything dirty to

1167
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,040
this point, other than suggest 
that Bariston Selmy should have 

1168
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:06,960
had his throat slid after the 
Robert Rebellion. 

1169
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,040
You know, it's just by itself. 
That's not a whole lot to go. 

1170
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,320
On it's maybe a little dark or 
tough, but not he must be a 

1171
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,120
traitor, right? 
That's not where you go. 

1172
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,320
Yeah, exactly. 
So Rob later becomes worried 

1173
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,000
about what the Karstark men with
ruse will do after they hear 

1174
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,040
he's executed. 
Their Lord ironically thinks 

1175
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,600
I've got to warn Roose Bolton 
about what this car just like, 

1176
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,800
about. 
No, actually, you're the one who

1177
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,360
needs the warning because those 
men are going to join him 

1178
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:35,720
because Ruse is going to turn 
and they're going to turn with 

1179
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:36,600
him. 
And they're like, yeah, we're 

1180
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,120
turning. 
Yeah, yeah, let's do that. 

1181
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,120
Indeed. 
There are Karstark men. 

1182
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,320
This is, this is also an under 
the radar thing. 

1183
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,640
Karstark men are on Ruse's side.
During the Red Wedding, Karstark

1184
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,800
men kill their other 
Northerners. 

1185
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,200
They're with him. 
Yeah, not all of them. 

1186
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,840
By no means all of them, but a 
large contingent of them. 

1187
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,080
And of course, the ambush of 
Jamie's army at the Whispering 

1188
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,160
Wood. 
That was a that was a big 

1189
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,360
victory. 
But it was came at a very high 

1190
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,080
cost. 
Especially to the topic we're 

1191
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,240
discussing today. 
Rob was shocked. 

1192
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:08,840
He wasn't elated after his 
victory. 

1193
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,160
Theon was. 
Theon was like woohoo. 

1194
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:11,360
We won. 
Yeah. 

1195
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,400
What a great battle. 
It was so glorious. 

1196
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,720
Rob is has the attitude you want
you you know you you kind of 

1197
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:20,160
want to see you know he 
shouldn't be all like yay we won

1198
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,640
bloody victory. 
You know he's concerned about 

1199
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,000
what happened about their 
losses. 

1200
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,320
You know he's thinking of the 
losses first and not of you. 

1201
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,320
That's something we we 
appreciated at the time. 

1202
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,640
But then we find out so much is 
happening at once. 

1203
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,960
We find out that Jaime Lannister
needs to be kept from Lord 

1204
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,920
Karstark because he'll want his 
head on a Pike And and Catelyn, 

1205
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,120
who is our POV for this is like,
wait, what? 

1206
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:39,840
Why? 
What's? 

1207
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,120
What's going on? 
So they give her the bad news 

1208
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,360
quote. 
Lord Karstark's sons, Galbart 

1209
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,040
Glover explained. 
Both of them said Rob Torn and 

1210
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,200
Eddard and Darren Horn would as 
well. 

1211
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,320
No one can fault Lannister on 
his courage, Glover said. 

1212
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:58,880
When he saw that he was lost, he
rallied his retainers and fought

1213
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:03,640
his way up the valley, hoping to
reach Lord Rob and cut him down,

1214
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,600
and almost did. 
He mislaid his sword and Eddard 

1215
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,560
Karstark's neck after he took 
Torin's hand off and split 

1216
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,560
Darren Hornwood's skull open, 
Rob said. 

1217
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,280
Looking back, it's ominous that 
they were already worried about 

1218
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,520
what Lord Karstark might do to a
prisoner. 

1219
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:19,920
Right. 
Like, that hits pretty hard when

1220
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,000
you're looking back like, Oh 
yeah, they were worried right 

1221
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,840
away that he would go after a 
prisoner. 

1222
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,640
This one was an adult and it was
the person that actually killed 

1223
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,320
his son. 
So it makes a little more sense.

1224
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,720
It's like, OK, this is the 
actual villain here. 

1225
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,520
When he kills boys later, you're
like, well that's you lose it 

1226
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,440
like it doesn't you you've lost 
sight of like you know we this 

1227
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,200
is not OK. 
Like this is clearly beyond the 

1228
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:41,480
pale. 
Like I can kind of understand 

1229
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,680
him wanting to do get the man 
that actually did it. 

1230
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,760
You know, the actual guy who 
killed his sons. 

1231
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,840
But just murdering boys later as
a way to get revenge is just 

1232
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,160
almost no reader's gonna be 
like, yeah, that was the right 

1233
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,720
thing to do. 
You know and murdering your own 

1234
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,120
guards, your own forcing guards 
to get to them, to murder them. 

1235
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,800
I like in no way I do. 
I wouldn't justify this. 

1236
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,920
But I I don't know. 
I I had I I don't want to use 

1237
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,760
the word understand, but like he
feels like he has to do 

1238
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,400
something. 
Does that make sense? 

1239
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,200
His values, yeah. 
Does he has no other options. 

1240
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,680
I'm not saying it's correct. 
I think he's arguably insane. 

1241
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,520
But yeah, it's it's it's so 
wrong. 

1242
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,560
And even if somehow you could 
justify it or understand it, you

1243
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,480
still can't let it go. 
Rob can't just let this go. 

1244
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,880
Yeah, yeah, I think insane is 
about right. 

1245
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,360
Maybe mad with grief 'cause I 
think that's the actual phrase 

1246
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:36,840
that gets used. 
And that seems about right, 

1247
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,080
'cause it is grief. 
It is, that's it. 

1248
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,080
Is what's driving him more so 
than anything, but also his his 

1249
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,120
northern values as yes, that's 
you get revenge on people that 

1250
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,160
do that to your family, no 
matter the circumstances. 

1251
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,760
It doesn't matter whether they 
were justified or you were 

1252
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,400
justified. 
It's purely comes down to the 

1253
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,400
basic he killed one of mine or 
two of his. 

1254
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,320
In this case I got to kill one 
or two of them and it was in 

1255
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,360
fact two that he killed plus 
plus the guards. 

1256
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,240
There's another quote later that
it makes it easier for him to 

1257
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,680
rationalize this when Caitlyn 
let Jamie go. 

1258
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,640
Yeah, right. 
Like, how can it be wrong for me

1259
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,080
to kill them and not wrong for 
her to let one go Like this 

1260
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,240
doesn't make make sense, you 
know, Like there's other parts 

1261
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,400
that also don't make sense, but 
you can see how he's 

1262
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:16,920
rationalizing. 
It yeah, I agree. 

1263
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:18,000
And we'll we'll get to that in a
minute. 

1264
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,560
But you're totally right. 
There's a lot of things that 

1265
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,760
just don't add up for him and 
you can kind of, as you put 

1266
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,560
yourself in his shoes, Yeah, it 
doesn't seem fair, right? 

1267
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,440
Not, not that his answer was 
was. 

1268
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,440
His answer was even less fair. 
But. 

1269
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,760
But we're we're not being fair, 
all right? 

1270
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,120
We're not being fair, right. 
That's that's where he's gone. 

1271
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:33,960
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

1272
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,000
So and it's actually a little 
worse than this, yes. 

1273
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,200
He loses both of his sons. 
He also loses his son-in-law to 

1274
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,080
be. 
Darren Hornwood is the other one

1275
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,160
that was mentioned. 
That was his daughters 

1276
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,640
betrothed. 
So that just killed his two sons

1277
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,040
and his son-in-law to be. 
So that was even like that part 

1278
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,000
kind of gets lost in the shuffle
a little bit because, I mean the

1279
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,120
two sons. 
That's enough, but it was more. 

1280
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:07,320
So, I mean, it wasn't your son. 
Yeah, so Green Fork, meanwhile, 

1281
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,600
was happening at the same time 
of the Whispering Wood, and now 

1282
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,320
Harry and the Other Son was the 
only car. 

1283
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,440
Stark, not there. 
You had Torn and Eddard and 

1284
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,800
Darren Horde, and so these are 
Rob's personal guard. 

1285
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,200
That's part of why they were in 
Jamie's way there. 

1286
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,600
As an aside, we don't know. 
We never do here. 

1287
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,120
Who actually takes Jamie down? 
You know, it's probably a group 

1288
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,960
effort, but it isn't like not a 
single person is credited with 

1289
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,800
disarming or capturing Jamie. 
It's just we hear about the ones

1290
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,440
who died helping that happen, 
but not the ones who succeeded. 

1291
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,560
Interesting detail that we never
ever given. 

1292
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,760
So Harrien is given command of 
the Karstark infantry, and that 

1293
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,960
is placed under the command of 
Roose Bolton, which that's bad. 

1294
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,880
As we find out later, Ruse isn't
betraying anyone yet. 

1295
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:47,440
He's still trying to win. 
He's still trying to be a 

1296
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,240
Northerner. 
He's like, well, if my king does

1297
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,360
well, then I'm going to be like 
second or third command or 

1298
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,040
highest up in a new Kingdom 
rather than just one of the most

1299
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,640
powerful Lords in a Kingdom 
that's ruled from the South. 

1300
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:03,960
So he was in it, but he was also
wary of their chances when was 

1301
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,080
willing to switch sides, which 
is, you know what he did. 

1302
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,800
So he took a high risk, high 
reward strategy here, making a 

1303
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,920
night attack either. 
He comes out looking amazing and

1304
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,360
beating a larger force, beating 
Tywin Lannister, and the only 

1305
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,960
way he's going to do that is 
with some sort of subterfuge, 

1306
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,320
because going ahead on is just 
not going to work. 

1307
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,040
But Tywin has more men and 
better men, so he had to do 

1308
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:22,120
something. 
He had to take a risk. 

1309
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,560
The risk didn't pay off, but a 
lot of people think that ruse, 

1310
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,440
this was ruse immediately 
tanking the North's chances when

1311
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,240
it was definitely not the case. 
I'm adamant about that. 

1312
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,560
But what's interesting about 
this battle, this is something I

1313
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,840
never noticed before, is that we
see the battle through Tyrion's 

1314
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,040
point of view and it's mostly 
Karstarks that he's fighting 

1315
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,720
that his army that he's arrayed 
against. 

1316
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,720
And here we go. 
Here is a very bloody action 

1317
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,960
moment from very early on in 
that battle close. 

1318
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,520
A Crescent of enemy Spearman had
formed ahead, a double hedgehog 

1319
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:58,560
bristling with steel waiting 
behind tall oaken Shields marked

1320
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,520
with the sunburst of Karstar. 
Gregor Clegane was the first to 

1321
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,560
reach them, leading a wedge of 
armored veterans, half the 

1322
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,680
horses shield the last second 
breaking their charge before the

1323
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,840
row of Spears. 
The others died, sharp steel 

1324
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,000
points ripping through their 
chests. 

1325
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:22,560
Tyrion saw a dozen men go down. 
The mountain's stallion reared, 

1326
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,680
lashing out with iron shod 
hooves as a barbed spearhead 

1327
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,400
raked across his neck. 
Maddened, the beast lunged into 

1328
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,400
the ranks. 
Spears thrust at him from every 

1329
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,080
side, but the shield wall broke 
beneath his weight. 

1330
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,000
The northerners stumbled away 
from the animal's death throes 

1331
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:47,120
as his horse fell, snorting 
blood and biting with his last 

1332
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,720
red breath. 
The mountain rose untouched, 

1333
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,720
laying about him with his two 
handed great sword. 

1334
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:55,560
I mean, Yikes. 
His two handed great sword 

1335
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,680
wielded one handed. 
I should say Herion would have 

1336
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,840
been nearby. 
These are all Karstark men 

1337
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,160
there. 
He's in control of this unit. 

1338
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:09,160
So maybe even just 100 feet from
that. 

1339
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:10,560
Maybe even less from what we 
just saw. 

1340
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,800
That nasty. 
It's like bloody scene of Gregor

1341
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,320
just rampaging through the 
Spearman there. 

1342
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,960
So yeah, we we see that these 
were all faceless soldiers. 

1343
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:20,880
We don't know any of their 
names. 

1344
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,920
Tyrion doesn't know them. 
Tyrion didn't know Harry and 

1345
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,880
Karstark personally, he just 
knew that sigil. 

1346
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,960
But if we had seen this from a 
different perspective, there 

1347
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,720
would have been, you know, more 
names given to us and and 

1348
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:33,360
probably Harrien would have been
pointed out. 

1349
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:35,840
But yeah, the battle was a ruse.
Of course, while this is 

1350
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:40,000
happening, a ruse run directed 
by ruse. 

1351
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,120
No, not really. 
Rob was directing to ruse, but 

1352
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,240
Bruce was directing his army and
that part worked out really 

1353
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,720
well. 
So already early on the 

1354
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,120
Karstarks are paying pretty 
heavily for their loyalty. 

1355
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:55,400
We have Harrien wasn't killed, 
but he was captured and probably

1356
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,200
a lot of car hold men died in 
that battle. 

1357
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,920
I mean, they were at the 
bloodiest part. 

1358
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:01,720
They were facing Gregor 
Clegane's men. 

1359
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,320
They we know that that was also 
a trap laid by Tywin. 

1360
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,520
Tywin expected the soldiers on 
that side to run, and he would 

1361
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:11,880
wheel his men and push them up 
against the lake. 

1362
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,080
And Tyrion's men were right by 
the lake. 

1363
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:19,320
So those men, when Tywin wheeled
his Pikes toward the lake, it 

1364
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,280
was the Cardstark men that would
have taken the brunt of it. 

1365
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:27,120
So not good. 
And the so the Cardstarks 

1366
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,240
suffered a lot and they were 
left under the command of ruse 

1367
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,720
who you know withdrew with the 
survivors of that army and and 

1368
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:39,160
pulled back and was wary for a 
while until he took Harrenhal. 

1369
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,000
So Ricard doesn't know what 
happened to his son. 

1370
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,920
He just knows that the Green 
Fork battle did its job but 

1371
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,760
wasn't a rousing success 
otherwise. 

1372
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,920
You know they didn't win. 
It enabled them to win at at the

1373
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:51,760
Whispering Wood. 
But he doesn't know what 

1374
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,640
happened to his son. 
He knows two sons are dead. 

1375
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,720
His son in law's dead and his 
other son no word at all. 

1376
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,880
But it's probably like he's has 
reason to doubt that his son 

1377
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,600
survived. 
And we see here in this next 

1378
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:09,240
quote what's happening. 
Lord Rickard Karstark, gaunt and

1379
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,000
hollow eyed in his grief, took 
his seat like a man in a 

1380
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,880
nightmare, his long beard 
uncombed and unwashed. 

1381
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:21,560
He had left two sons dead in the
Whispering Wood and there was no

1382
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,880
word of the third his eldest, 
who had led the Karstark Spears 

1383
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,480
against Tywin Lannister on the 
Green Fork. 

1384
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,400
Then things get very confusing 
for the Northerners because 

1385
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,080
Stannis and Renly both declare 
themselves King and Ned is 

1386
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,520
executed by Joffrey. 
A lot happens in a short period 

1387
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,840
of time. 
We see the reaction to the 

1388
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,400
Northern Lords to Ned's death. 
Obviously that through Captain's

1389
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,200
point of view, Rob is a very 
upset. 

1390
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,240
There's a lot of people praying 
at River Run, including Lord 

1391
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,080
Rickard, Lord Blackwood, a bunch
of others. 

1392
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:51,560
They're praying at the Heart 
tree. 

1393
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:57,240
And as we'll see, though, he 
becomes more concerned with 

1394
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,400
vengeance for Torin and Eddard 
than he has concern for his 

1395
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,920
living children. 
He does things that put them 

1396
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,880
very much at risk. 
And the death of Ned Stark 

1397
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,600
clearly doesn't calm him down, 
and he makes him more, you know,

1398
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,720
vindictive from his POV. 
It's even more about blood. 

1399
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,600
There's even less chance for 
peace now. 

1400
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,400
I mean, they not only killed his
sons, at least that was in 

1401
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,920
battle, but this, this execution
of Ned, this was dishonorable 

1402
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,760
and unplanned, and even the 
Lannister didn't want to do it. 

1403
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,520
It was, you know, Joffrey going 
rogue. 

1404
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,800
Probably at the advice of 
Littlefinger, but still reason 

1405
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,720
to be upset. 
Yeah, not just more vindictive, 

1406
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,520
but more nihilistic. 
OK, yeah, he. 

1407
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,480
He feels like what's the point 
of anything anymore, right? 

1408
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:41,400
Yeah, Like Ned's dead. 
Caitlin will let Jamie go. 

1409
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,040
Like my sons are dead. 
Like. 

1410
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,240
One foot in the grave. 
Nothing of your matters. 

1411
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,280
Yeah. 1 foot in the grave, 
basically. 

1412
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:51,920
Yeah, and here comes one of 
until this example, until this 

1413
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:53,800
comes forward. 
And then all of a sudden Rick 

1414
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:55,360
Hart's got something to live for
again. 

1415
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,680
In one of the many examples of 
him and Great John being the 

1416
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,800
left and right hands, they are 
the spearhead for the new 

1417
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,040
Kingdom. 
Catelyn gives her speech about 

1418
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:07,440
peace and alliance. 
And you know it's not going to 

1419
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,160
bring Ned back. 
It's not going to bring back 

1420
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,240
Torin and Eddard. 
None of these people are going 

1421
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,160
to like we can't. 
All we're going to have is more 

1422
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,840
blood and death. 
And Lord Karstrok says a man has

1423
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,760
a need for vengeance. 
That's his basics. 

1424
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,920
His short one sentence reply, 
some more than others. 

1425
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:25,200
Clearly he's clearly at the top 
there of a need for vengeance. 

1426
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,480
And he adds, what did my Torin 
and Eddard die for if I'm to 

1427
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,200
return to Carhold with nothing 
but their bones? 

1428
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,440
And then the great John stands 
up and gives that really rousing

1429
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,600
speech, which he's very good at 
this sort of thing. 

1430
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,800
This is why you imagined him 
doing this when war was declared

1431
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:41,880
in the 1st place. 
Sean. 

1432
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:43,840
And this is how he was probably 
back at last Hearth. 

1433
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,400
He's like we should be done with
the South. 

1434
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:47,800
They don't know anything about 
the North. 

1435
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,560
Even their Gods are wrong quote.
He reached back over his 

1436
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:55,120
shoulder and drew his immense 2 
handed great sword. 

1437
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:57,960
Why shouldn't we rule ourselves 
again? 

1438
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,680
It was the Dragons we married, 
and the Dragons are all dead. 

1439
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,160
He pointed at Rob with the blade
there sets the only king I mean 

1440
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,160
to bow my knee to melords. 
He thundered the king in the 

1441
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:14,320
North, and he knelt and laid his
sword at her son's feet. 

1442
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,000
I'll have peace on those terms, 
Lord Karstark said. 

1443
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:20,160
They could keep their red castle
in their iron chair as well. 

1444
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,240
He eased his long sword from its
scabbard. 

1445
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,560
The king in the North, he said, 
kneeling beside the great John. 

1446
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,359
From Gregor to Great John, both 
with their huge swords. 

1447
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,479
But Lord Rickard doesn't want 
his son's lives to have been 

1448
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,160
wasted. 
But forging a new Kingdom, a new

1449
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:34,720
Kingdom of north, he can live 
with that. 

1450
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,359
That is a thing. 
That's something that they died 

1451
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:40,000
for. 
You know that that's that's but 

1452
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,399
it's still, as we learn later, 
it's still 2nd place to 

1453
01:08:42,399 --> 01:08:44,080
vengeance for him. 
He's still, that's still more 

1454
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:45,160
important to him than anything 
else. 

1455
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:46,640
But this is something he can get
behind. 

1456
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:52,560
And to be fair, from this point 
on, Karstark is one of his most 

1457
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,840
important Lords and advisors. 
Until he isn't. 

1458
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,800
Until that all falls apart. 
At that moment when they're 

1459
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,600
declaring for Rob, did they know
yet that Renly and Stannis had? 

1460
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,439
A Yes, also, that's part of why 
they did it, because they were 

1461
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:06,840
like, well, who? 
Because that was one of the 

1462
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,920
arguments. 
It's like, which king do we? 

1463
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,040
Who are we for? 
We're not for the Lannisters, 

1464
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,000
clearly. 
But should we pick Renly and 

1465
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,279
should we pick Stannis? 
And that's why Gretchen's like, 

1466
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,319
screw them all, let's be our own
kings again. 

1467
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:20,680
And they're like, yeah, great 
idea. 

1468
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,600
Yeah. 
Which is the odd part being the 

1469
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:25,319
north, the, the Riverlanders are
in it and they're like, yeah, 

1470
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:27,560
we're joining you. 
And like, wait, Riverlands is so

1471
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:28,760
we're this is the Kingdom of the
north. 

1472
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:32,279
And this Riverlands, that's 
that's not as clear there. 

1473
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:35,720
This is from Catlin's point of 
view 'cause she's and houses who

1474
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,520
had never been ruled from 
Winterfell led their swords at 

1475
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:39,880
his feet. 
So it was also, that's another 

1476
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:41,840
thing that probably makes 
Rickard a little proud is that 

1477
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,240
it's not only a new Kingdom, but
it's a a bigger Kingdom of the 

1478
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:47,560
than the prior Kingdom of the 
North was. 

1479
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,200
So yeah, that's that's 
something. 

1480
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,440
That's definitely something. 
OK, let's take a little break 

1481
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:56,760
here. 
Let's shout out some of our 

1482
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,560
amazing supporters here and we 
want to let you all know that if

1483
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:06,760
you join us on Patreon, that's 
www.patreon.com/history of 

1484
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,440
Westeros. 
You can get a cool nickname and 

1485
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:14,000
not have to hear ads in our 
show, even ads like this one, 

1486
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,640
which we don't necessarily 
consider an ad. 

1487
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,840
But you wouldn't hear this if 
you were listening on the the 

1488
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,560
Patreon version. 
You would be past this point 

1489
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:24,520
already and getting maybe 
already into the second-half of 

1490
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:29,240
the episode, but Sean has 
prepared some some names that we

1491
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,920
have given to some of our great 
supporters to read off 'cause we

1492
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,240
like hearing these fun names. 
I hope some of these patrons 

1493
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,120
listen live so they can hear us 
doing this. 

1494
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,760
And we got a few here today, 
including a special one. 

1495
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,440
Always do a few old and a few 
new. 

1496
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,200
Got Lady Commander. 
Lady Megan of Hausenzer. 

1497
01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:50,360
Here's a big one here. 
Lord Darian, the daring wielder 

1498
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,040
of the Valerian steel sword. 
Wisdom, Lord of House 

1499
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,440
Hollingsworth and the holly hold
and Dorne, power and knowledge. 

1500
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,400
Styles of Raven, tree, codfish, 
the steel Bender before it 

1501
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,640
breaks. 
Lady Bobby of House Mitchell, 

1502
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,960
and our most important patron of
all, Lady Rita of the Copper 

1503
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,400
Maine, the Unbound Dance, the 
Fervor. 

1504
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,440
That's Sean's wife, for those of
you all know anyone who's like. 

1505
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,480
Hey, I thought I was the most 
important. 

1506
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,680
Patron of the world. 
No, Sean is very biased. 

1507
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,520
Of course he says that very. 
Sweet. 

1508
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,520
I also want to shout out my 
Twitch streams every almost 

1509
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:32,400
every Friday I do a game stream 
on twitchthatstwitch.com/history

1510
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,760
of Westeros and we are playing 
through currently a Black Fire 

1511
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:38,880
Kingdom. 
We have conquered the Seven 

1512
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,160
Kingdoms with Meili the 
Monstrous, his son Maynard, 

1513
01:11:41,480 --> 01:11:46,080
Maynard the Disgraceful, his 
ruling very evilly. 

1514
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,280
He's a sadist, but he has lots 
of children and it's an 

1515
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:51,840
interesting future that Westeros
is faced with. 

1516
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,400
Lots of intrigue, lots of fun. 
I always like to role play the 

1517
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:55,880
character. 
If he's a sadist, I play him 

1518
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,280
sadistically. 
If he's a good guy, I plan to be

1519
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:00,280
a good guy. 
If he's something in between, I 

1520
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,160
play him that way. 
So lots of fun stuff happens. 

1521
01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:04,800
Lots of fellow historians 
hanging out and having a good 

1522
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,920
time. 
That's every Friday at six 

1523
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,560
Eastern. 
Let's get back to it. 

1524
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:15,360
Theon, like Bran, sees Karstark 
men through the telescope after 

1525
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,800
he's taken Winterfell, though 
not many since most went South. 

1526
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,400
So there there's Car Stark men 
in the group gathered by 

1527
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:28,240
Roderick Cassell and Clay Serwin
who are trying to take 

1528
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:32,920
Winterfell back from Theon. 
And of course those men are 

1529
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:38,120
betrayed by Ramsay Bolton. 
And however, this is one of 

1530
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,320
those battles. 
You know when the we talked 

1531
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,800
about this at the time when we 
did Val Arubitis it was like 200

1532
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,960
cavalry sneak attacking 600 
infantry. 

1533
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:50,760
Now you would even despite the 
numerical superiority, 200 men 

1534
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,200
on horseback is probably going 
to beat the 600 men on the 

1535
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,200
ground because the horseback 
gives you a huge advantage. 

1536
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:57,480
Not to mention the fact they 
were it was a surprise attack 

1537
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,920
and these were probably better 
fighting men too because this 

1538
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:04,280
was Bolton Garrison and Ruse 
probably is more cautious about 

1539
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,080
who he leaves behind. 
Rob, who was very aggressive 

1540
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,760
about taking his best dude S 
along with most of the other 

1541
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,480
houses. 
So this is still this is one of 

1542
01:13:12,480 --> 01:13:13,960
those battles. 
It's hard to believe everyone 

1543
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:15,360
was killed. 
There's got to be a few 

1544
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,160
witnesses to this to what Ramsay
did here. 

1545
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,760
A few car sharks are probably 
among those who these people 

1546
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,160
are. 
Where they are now is 

1547
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,200
impossible, if not to say like, 
I just don't know, but they 

1548
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:30,240
probably just went back to car 
hold, you know like where else 

1549
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,760
would they go. 
So still there could be the 

1550
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:34,760
point being there could be 
eyewitnesses amongst the car 

1551
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,200
Starks, just some of The Dirty 
things that Ramsay and others 

1552
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,360
did. 
Like somebody could say no, that

1553
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,600
was Ramsay, not Theon, because 
that's the lie that their bolts 

1554
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:44,320
are pushing that the the Theon 
did this, which is easy lie to 

1555
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:45,960
make. 
It's a it's a smart, cunning lie

1556
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,400
because Theon did do a lot of it
like he did do most of it. 

1557
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,200
He just didn't burn the castle 
and kill everyone in it. 

1558
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,000
He just killed, you know some of
them and didn't do any of the 

1559
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,240
burning. 
So a lie mixed in with a bunch 

1560
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:58,760
of truths is much more 
believable. 

1561
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:00,720
Exactly. 
A perfect example was a very 

1562
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:02,680
that's why what made it a 
cunning lie was was very 

1563
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,920
believable, but but there are 
potential witnesses to undo that

1564
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:08,520
later. 
Meanwhile, of course, while 

1565
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:12,800
that's happening with Theon, the
War of 5 Kings is raging. 

1566
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,440
And before the Northern has 
learned that Rob has lost 

1567
01:14:16,440 --> 01:14:19,320
Winterfell, you know there's 
there's some other things going 

1568
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:22,400
on. 
First, he offers peace with the 

1569
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,520
Iron Throne. 
Now the terms aren't friendly, 

1570
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:28,840
they're designed to be rejected.
But Lord Rickard is so mad that 

1571
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,520
there's even an offer being made
that he storms out of the hall 

1572
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:33,880
before even hearing the terms. 
If he had listened to them, he'd

1573
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,400
be like, Oh yeah, that's they'd 
never going to accept that. 

1574
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,240
It's it was a strategy. 
It wasn't, it was optics. 

1575
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,240
It wasn't of like, this is a 
genuine offer. 

1576
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,320
But that goes to show just how 
in his head Ricard is. 

1577
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,960
He won't even just the notion of
peace is so offensive to him 

1578
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,440
that he walks out. 
And then Ed Muir adds to this 

1579
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:55,280
unease that comes from Lord 
Ricard storming out quote. 

1580
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,240
All wager there were others who 
felt the same as Lord Karstark, 

1581
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:03,680
her brother Ed Muir declared. 
How can we talk of peace while 

1582
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,120
the Lannisters spread like a 
pestilence over my father's 

1583
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:11,000
domains, stealing his crops and 
slaughtering his people? 

1584
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:15,360
I say again, we ought to be 
marching on Harrenhal. 

1585
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,240
Rob answers that like we don't 
have enough soldiers. 

1586
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,800
Like logistically it's just not 
going to happen. 

1587
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,960
It's it's just we can't. 
And so unfortunately, though 

1588
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,720
it's not the only time Rob's 
intent isn't made clear to his 

1589
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:30,160
subordinates. 
In this case, he might have been

1590
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:32,280
trying to conceal that he 
doesn't necessarily want his 

1591
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:33,720
army to know that they're too 
small. 

1592
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,840
But he doesn't have to tell the 
whole army, just some key 

1593
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:38,920
leaders. 
If you just told Ed Muir and 

1594
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:42,240
like three other people and and 
it is part of like the modern 

1595
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,760
military, at least American 
military commander's intent is 

1596
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:46,800
something to talk about a lot. 
Because if you just have these 

1597
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:50,040
blanket orders, and if something
happens, like communications are

1598
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,320
cut off or the group is split or
the commander dies, the soldiers

1599
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,120
need to know what they're 
supposed to do next. 

1600
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:59,080
So if you say, you know, we have
to capture this hill so the 

1601
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:02,560
helicopters can land, but then 
you see the helicopters get shut

1602
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,240
down and the commander dies, 
like, oh, well, maybe we don't 

1603
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:06,760
capture the hill now, right? 
Like that. 

1604
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:08,600
You understand? 
We're not going to have these 

1605
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:10,720
sacrifices if we can't land in 
helicopters anyway. 

1606
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,880
So but Rob didn't let let his 
intent be known. 

1607
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,360
He just kept it all secret, 
trying to be tricky. 

1608
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:18,080
Maybe it would have worked. 
But you got to. 

1609
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:21,040
You got to trust and communicate
with your subordinates, you 

1610
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,920
know? 
So he does say he's going to go 

1611
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,400
speak to Lord Karstark to to 
kind of explain the deal to him.

1612
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,400
He says it would be really bad 
to lose him. 

1613
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:30,800
Sigh. 
Yeah, it would be really bad to 

1614
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:32,680
lose him, Rob. 
Indeed it would be. 

1615
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:36,640
So yeah, that's that's ominous. 
So Lord Rickard. 

1616
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,360
But Despite that, you know, it's
it's still a while before things

1617
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,600
really come to a head. 
Lord Rickard stays with Rob 

1618
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:42,960
throughout all these campaigns 
in the South. 

1619
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,760
He's credited with personally 
killing Sir Stafford Lannister 

1620
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,400
at the Battle of Camps. 
Drives a Lance through his 

1621
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:49,480
chest. 
And this is the one where they 

1622
01:16:49,480 --> 01:16:51,960
sneak up on that host in the 
east or in the West where they 

1623
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,440
have no centuries 'cause there's
they're so deep in the West that

1624
01:16:55,440 --> 01:16:58,400
they have there's the it's 
insane to them that a northern 

1625
01:16:58,400 --> 01:16:59,400
army would show up and attack 
them. 

1626
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,480
But thanks to Grey Wind and 
getting around some barriers, 

1627
01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:03,720
they're able to sneak up and do 
that. 

1628
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:08,160
And after this battle, there's 
further talk by Rob of ransoming

1629
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,160
Jamie back to Tywin and Ricard 
loudly objects. 

1630
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:14,120
He's like no giving back Jamie, 
no way. 

1631
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,280
And they begin to the plan to 
draw Tywin West by raiding up 

1632
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,440
and down the coast. 
It's a brutal plan. 

1633
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:24,160
We we criticized it at the time 
because it's just you're just 

1634
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:26,720
attacking villages and stuff. 
This is, this is gnarly, this is

1635
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,520
this is cruel. 
And you got to think that Lord 

1636
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:33,280
Ricard was not pulling any 
punches when he was sack in 

1637
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,240
Lannister villages. 
He was probably the most brutal.

1638
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:40,280
He was probably, maybe not Vargo
Hodish, maybe not, you know, as 

1639
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:41,840
bad as Gregor. 
But he might have been. 

1640
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,480
He might have been that bad. 
I mean, what's one of the worst 

1641
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:47,400
things Gregor did Killed the 
Targaryen kids? 

1642
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,280
Yeah, yeah. 
Unarmed kids that were basically

1643
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:52,800
prisoners murdered him. 
OK, what does Carstark end up 

1644
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:53,360
doing? 
Right. 

1645
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:53,920
Same. 
Yeah. 

1646
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,760
I mean, now in this case Gregor 
also tortures people would be 

1647
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,760
like, where's your money hidden?
And he does that regularly and 

1648
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,880
rapes people. 
I don't know that Carstark is is

1649
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,120
torturing people for money, but 
he's probably letting his men 

1650
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:05,880
rape and and that not stopping 
them. 

1651
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:06,800
I doubt. 
I don't. 

1652
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:08,160
I don't. 
There's no reason to think 

1653
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,480
otherwise. 
I would hope he's not, but I 

1654
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:12,480
cynically would think he 
probably would. 

1655
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:14,480
They they're doing that, and 
he's not telling them not to. 

1656
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:19,400
I would be curious how many 
Lords leading armies in this 

1657
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:21,320
world stop their men from 
raping. 

1658
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,400
Well, the only one we hear about
that is Stan. 

1659
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:25,240
Like like Santa stands out for 
that. 

1660
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:27,400
Like, I guess I wouldn't think 
Ned would allow that, but it's 

1661
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:30,480
not like we're told. 
That I wouldn't think Ned, for 

1662
01:18:30,480 --> 01:18:31,840
example. 
Not everyone would. 

1663
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:33,600
I think they would allow it, but
not everyone do. 

1664
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,400
I think they have like, they're 
micromanaging their troops 

1665
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,640
enough that they're aware of 
everything happening. 

1666
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:42,400
Yeah, I wonder how much people 
are like, yeah, I'm not 

1667
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:46,400
encouraging it, but it happens. 
And they're not like it's a. 

1668
01:18:47,440 --> 01:18:51,040
It's a Gray area like Tywin 
encourages it all kind of under 

1669
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,760
the radar, whereas someone like,
I guess, I would guess like Ed 

1670
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:56,040
Muir is against it, you know, 
because Ed Muir really cares 

1671
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:59,120
about the the the peasants, like
he tried to bring them into 

1672
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:00,760
River Run to protect them and 
stuff like that. 

1673
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,000
Like, I would guess that Ed Muir
would be against it, but I would

1674
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,320
also think that he might be one 
of the ones that people could 

1675
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:07,960
just be like, oh man, I didn't 
know, boss. 

1676
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:09,280
You know anybody? 
Blind guy. 

1677
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,160
Yeah, he might be. 
Yeah, you're right. 

1678
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:14,080
He might let it slide. 
You want to think that some of 

1679
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:17,960
the more protagonistic 
characters, like if Ned found 

1680
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,400
out that his troops are doing 
it, he might execute them. 

1681
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:22,600
And so his troops sounds better.
Yeah. 

1682
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,560
But maybe, maybe I'm being too 
optimistic about Ned or his 

1683
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:27,520
subordinates, or his awareness 
of what's happened in the 

1684
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,240
battlefield. 
Stan has definitely gelded some 

1685
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,800
of his men after the battle of 
the Wall for for raping. 

1686
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,520
So we know. 
We know what he does to people 

1687
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,680
who do that and it's not enough.
It didn't like he he had an 

1688
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:39,960
existing policy and it still 
didn't stop. 

1689
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:41,280
Like they thought they could get
away with it. 

1690
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,600
Most likely they thought they 
wouldn't be caught or they're 

1691
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,000
just insane. 
I don't know what they. 

1692
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,240
I don't know what was in their 
heads. 

1693
01:19:46,480 --> 01:19:49,400
That's not a place I want to be 
in the mind of a rapist. 

1694
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,320
But it doesn't work though this 
plan. 

1695
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,640
They certainly have no trouble 
with the villages and and 

1696
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:57,160
causing destruction and 
devastation. 

1697
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,920
But again the lack of 
communication causes problems. 

1698
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:01,960
Ed Muir is like, I'm going to 
stop Tywin from crossing. 

1699
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,040
You know, we're not going to 
give up one inch of ground here,

1700
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,480
and that's unfortunate because 
Rob wanted. 

1701
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:11,200
Him to get past so that he would
spend the winter in the West. 

1702
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,800
You know using up their 
resources instead of the 

1703
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,640
Riverlands resources. 
But yeah, didn't work. 

1704
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:23,040
Davin Lannister who we don't 
meet till I guess it's I forget 

1705
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:24,400
if it's a feast for Crows or 
Dance with Dragons. 

1706
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,240
He swears an oath of vengeance 
that we don't find out till 

1707
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:31,000
later because that's his father.
Stafford Lannister was his dad. 

1708
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,600
So he's he's like I'm not going 
to cut my hair until I kill Lord

1709
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,440
Rickard. 
When Jamie meets him, his hair 

1710
01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:38,960
is like, just crazy. 
But he's like, I won't be able 

1711
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,800
to get that oath of vengeance 
because Rob killed him first. 

1712
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:45,480
You know, he reminds me of Yoke 
was saying he wasn't going to 

1713
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,000
cut his hair till winds came 
out. 

1714
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,280
I just cut his hair. 
I haven't seen him in a minute. 

1715
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:52,280
I wonder if he's still keeping 
that oak, though. 

1716
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:54,040
Yeah, he's no more like a yoke 
boy. 

1717
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,080
He's hair boy. 
So let's talk about Lord 

1718
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:00,400
Ricard's betrayal. 
It all goes S after they go 

1719
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:05,040
South so badly so after the 
capture of Winterfell, Catlin 

1720
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:08,560
has her own moment of being 
overcome like Ricard had and 

1721
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:11,920
makes her desperate play, 
releasing Jamie at the end of 

1722
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:14,920
The Clash of Kings. 
Rob and his army are in the West

1723
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,360
when this when this happens, but
they learn of it soon enough 

1724
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:22,880
early in A Storm of Swords. 
It causes a lot of uproar, but 

1725
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:27,760
Lord Ricard is the most upset of
all and says this in response to

1726
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,040
Catlin's grief quote. 
Lord Rickard Karstark pushed 

1727
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:35,360
past the great John like some 
grim specter with his black male

1728
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:40,400
and long ragged Gray beard, his 
narrow face pinched and cold. 

1729
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:42,760
And I have one son who once had 
three. 

1730
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,520
You have robbed me of my 
vengeance. 

1731
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:49,000
Catelyn faced him calmly. 
Lord Rickard, the Kingslayers 

1732
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,880
dying would not have bought life
for your children. 

1733
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:55,800
His living may buy life for 
mine. 

1734
01:21:56,440 --> 01:21:59,320
The Lord was unappeased. 
Jaime Lannister has played you 

1735
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,760
for a fool. 
You bought a bag of empty words 

1736
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,160
no more. 
My Torn and my Eddard deserve 

1737
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,440
better of you. 
That's hard to kind of see 

1738
01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:10,040
Ricard's point here. 
You know, Catlin's play was 

1739
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:11,560
desperate and not likely to 
work. 

1740
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,200
And it didn't, you know, I mean,
it kind of did. 

1741
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:16,040
It kind of did, but it kind of 
didn't, you know, like, it 

1742
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,320
worked better than Rickard would
have thought, but it still 

1743
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:20,760
didn't really work. 
This is also a brutal irony, 

1744
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:22,760
like it says, like some grim 
spectre. 

1745
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,040
Well, who becomes an even 
grimmer Spectre? 

1746
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:29,200
Of the two of them, Catelyn 
does, she becomes even more 

1747
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,440
vindictive and even true, truly 
undead. 

1748
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:33,400
Unlike, she's not like a grim 
spectre. 

1749
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:37,200
She pretty much is a spectre's 
more like a, you know, a shadow.

1750
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:39,120
But still, like, it's close 
enough. 

1751
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,600
She's a revenant. 
You know, by by the undead 

1752
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:45,720
classification, she's more of a 
revenant, but still, it's closer

1753
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,680
to what? 
Closer to undead than than 

1754
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,200
Ricard Carstar. 
So and then Rob's relative 

1755
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:52,960
leniency, like you brought it 
before Sean, he caught Ricard 

1756
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:54,280
just loses it. 
He's like, what? 

1757
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:59,920
How can it be a crime to kill 
Lannister as if it's a crime, 

1758
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:02,880
not a crime to free them all. 
Like all you're doing is putting

1759
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:06,240
her in a tower cell and saying 
bad mother. 

1760
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,160
You know like I kind of get 
where he's coming from like he's

1761
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:10,560
not going to execute his own 
mother. 

1762
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:13,680
But this is it's not even 
justice. 

1763
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,720
And and the Starks are supposed 
to be known for their even like 

1764
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,000
his he's he's very absolutist 
with Rickard's punishment but 

1765
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:23,720
not with this. 
You know and I agree with him. 

1766
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:25,280
Ricard did deserve to be 
executed. 

1767
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:27,760
Maybe strategically it wasn't 
the right call as we'll discuss.

1768
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:31,000
But he did deserve that based on
the laws of the land. 

1769
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,200
But Catelyn deserved more than 
just a talk, a stern talking to.

1770
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:35,720
Like that's. 
I don't know what you're 

1771
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,280
supposed to do with your. 
Roster What are you supposed to 

1772
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:37,960
do with Catelyn? 
What? 

1773
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:39,120
What do? 
You think I don't know? 

1774
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:41,040
Could be. 
Yeah, that's you're right. 

1775
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:43,080
Like I don't know what it should
have been, but I. 

1776
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,760
Feel like that was probably the 
harshest punishment he could 

1777
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,800
have given her. 
Actually, maybe. 

1778
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,360
Maybe she's not around any of 
her kids now. 

1779
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:51,920
She's just locked away. 
I don't know. 

1780
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:53,320
He can't send her back to 
Winterfell. 

1781
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:55,640
It was captured by Theon. 
So, like, she can't. 

1782
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:56,640
You know what? 
She's supposed to, Yeah. 

1783
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:57,480
She's already at River. 
Run. 

1784
01:23:57,480 --> 01:23:59,600
That's kind of a reward. 
She used to just see her other 

1785
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:01,600
sons, you know? 
Like, it's not really a real 

1786
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:03,560
punishment. 
Like just being kept completely 

1787
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:06,720
alone, Yeah. 
Say, say, that was the harshest 

1788
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,360
punishment he could have given 
her. 

1789
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:11,160
All right, give that same thing 
to me. 

1790
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:13,920
That's what Rickard's thinking. 
Yeah, and he he throws that back

1791
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:16,040
in Rob's face, like when when 
things come down. 

1792
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:19,200
But unfortunately that's not the
only crime he's committed, so 

1793
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:20,800
it's not quite that simple. 
So. 

1794
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,640
But he doesn't before he does 
kills those children, before he 

1795
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:28,440
takes his seven retainers and 
murders the two guards and then 

1796
01:24:28,440 --> 01:24:33,120
kills the two Lannister boys, he
tells all his men that whoever 

1797
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,800
brings me Jaime Lannister gets 
my daughter's hand in marriage. 

1798
01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:40,640
This is an awful, awful, awful 
thing to do for a number of 

1799
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,240
reasons. 
One, it's a total betrayer of 

1800
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,720
his betrayal of his daughter. 
It's also a betrayal of his 

1801
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:52,000
living son, because thousands of
people now can claim his 

1802
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:53,920
daughter. 
Now, of course it's not so easy 

1803
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,400
to capture Jaime Lannister. 
Let's let's let's add that in 

1804
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,120
there. 
It's not exactly an easy thing 

1805
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:02,720
to do that he's putting out. 
But whoever peasant commoner 

1806
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,120
lore, whatever, whoever pulls 
this off, it could be Vargo 

1807
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:08,080
Hought who is, who almost does. 
Pull it off So it just gives you

1808
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,840
an example of the type of men 
who he's opening this up to. 

1809
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:13,320
This offer extends to the worst 
people. 

1810
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:18,240
Like what if Greg or Clegane had
given him the head of Jamie 

1811
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:19,760
Lancer? 
Are you going to give Greg or 

1812
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,320
Clegane your daughter's hand? 
Really. 

1813
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,840
Like, is that really what you're
setting yourself up for here? 

1814
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:26,440
So. 
And This is why it's a betrayal 

1815
01:25:26,440 --> 01:25:30,000
of his son too. 
Because anyone it's it's it's 

1816
01:25:30,440 --> 01:25:34,280
succession law. 
One O 1, kill the son, the 

1817
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:36,240
daughter inherits. 
You're married to the daughter, 

1818
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:38,920
all of a sudden you've like, 
this is what Braun does to the 

1819
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:41,800
Stokeworths. 
Like they sort of incite him and

1820
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:43,400
he just, he's like, you're going
to you're going to pick a fight 

1821
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,040
with me. 
In that case, I'm going to take 

1822
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,080
your castle. 
But it's the same thing. 

1823
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:51,000
You kill the guy, kick out the 
the lady wife, take the castle 

1824
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:53,200
you've got. 
You marry the the someone with 

1825
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:54,920
the bloodline of that castle and
it's yours. 

1826
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:56,440
And that's what Vargo Hope was 
going to do. 

1827
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:58,120
That's what other people were 
planning on doing. 

1828
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,240
A bunch of different car, random
car Starks got this idea in 

1829
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:02,920
their head. 
They went off in groups of 10 or

1830
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:05,040
12, like whoever the leader of 
that group is. 

1831
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,360
Each of these batches of 8/10/12
car Starks running off in 

1832
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:10,080
different directors trying to 
find Jaime Lannister. 

1833
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,240
Every single one of these groups
is like one guy who's like the 

1834
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:15,240
in charge of that group. 
They're all like, I'm the guy 

1835
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:17,480
who gets the girl. 
All the other guys are like, 

1836
01:26:17,480 --> 01:26:21,160
haha, that's what you think you?
Know like I'm going to kill, 

1837
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:22,680
stab you in the back and take 
her for myself. 

1838
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:24,720
Which is probably true in a few 
cases, but most of them are 

1839
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:27,720
like, no, once I marry her, all 
you guys, I bring you all in. 

1840
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:30,920
I hire you as my staff. 
You guys are my personal guard 

1841
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,040
at Carr Hold. 
We're all going up, you guys. 

1842
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,240
My you guys become my entourage,
you know? 

1843
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:37,560
Yeah, you'll be my Castellan, 
You'll be the master of our own.

1844
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:41,200
And there you walk to other, you
know, sub Lords, daughters in 

1845
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:44,080
the the realm and yeah. 
You guys just have to keep in 

1846
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:46,960
mind, we've said it before, this
is a important part. 

1847
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:50,560
To remind ourselves again, 
lordship in Westeros is like 

1848
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:52,840
godhood. 
It's like a being a lesser 

1849
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,840
deity. 
You're so powerful a different 

1850
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,600
sets of laws apply to you, 
different sets of standards 

1851
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,680
apply to you. 
You have wealth undreamed of, 

1852
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,440
and and I remember seeing this 
from a medievalist. 

1853
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:09,400
It's more it's far more 
realistic to see a black person 

1854
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:13,320
in a medieval show than is to 
see a blacksmith rise to a 

1855
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,720
knight, rise to to knighthood. 
Get that. 

1856
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:23,120
Let that settle not social 
mobility is is more unrealistic 

1857
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:27,160
than people from Africa being in
Europe, which shouldn't be that 

1858
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,120
rare anyway. 
We have Moors in Spain. 

1859
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:30,960
I mean, if they're already in 
Africa, you have a land you can 

1860
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:36,000
walk to Europe from from Africa,
you know, like not over the 

1861
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:37,160
Mediterranean, but around, 
right. 

1862
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:38,920
You know it's it's it's it's 
land, right. 

1863
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:42,360
It's not the same thing. 
So anyway, and there are ships, 

1864
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:44,880
by the way, you know, so it's. 
Not that far to sail. 

1865
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:47,600
Yeah, so social. 
So this is I I bring that up 

1866
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:52,680
just to show Rickard's offer of 
not just upward mobility, 

1867
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,640
massive mobility upward is 
unheard of. 

1868
01:27:56,680 --> 01:28:00,120
It's so, so rare to get this, 
like when they're giving out 

1869
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,400
rewards after the Battle of the 
Blackwater, this guy, this guy 

1870
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,400
that like saved his Lord, killed
a bunch of people. 

1871
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,760
It was a hugely heroic all they 
did was made him a knight like 

1872
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,720
that, Like that's still big. 
He got money and a little bit of

1873
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,960
land, but he's still not noble, 
you know, For that, for great 

1874
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,000
service like that, for saving 
like a a really high Lord is so 

1875
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,920
hard. 
I would say he probably. 

1876
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:22,400
It would. 
It wouldn't save him from the 

1877
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,880
Gregor Clegane of the world but 
he probably should have said any

1878
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:30,920
noble, any Lord. 
You know maybe and you know not 

1879
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,640
that I'm against upward mobility
and that, but I am against Vargo

1880
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:38,760
Hoats of the world and whatever.
Marrying Alice Carstark and 

1881
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:40,800
becoming Lords. 
I'm against the bronze of the 

1882
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:42,560
world doing it too, to be 
honest. 

1883
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,480
Yeah. 
So I I I don't know. 

1884
01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:49,160
But I I he still could have 
faced plenty of terrible Ramsay 

1885
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:52,600
Bolton's and Gregor Clegane's 
and there's terrible Lord things

1886
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,680
that could have done it. 
But the the pool would have been

1887
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:56,080
slightly smaller. 
Yeah. 

1888
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,880
Yeah, agree. 
Yeah, so it was just insane. 

1889
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:02,200
Like this was just a bad. 
Like I think when this happens 

1890
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:06,720
you can see it's a bad idea, but
I'm not sure it registers with 

1891
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:09,520
the average reader, or even a 
dedicated reader, just how 

1892
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,520
insane this is, just how what a 
big deal it is, and just what 

1893
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,960
what a chaotic thing to do it 
is. 

1894
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:21,680
There is a flip side of this 
coin that you know, I don't 

1895
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:22,520
know. 
I think it's worth it. 

1896
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:26,280
I don't think it was correct to 
do, but some of the best might 

1897
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:29,680
also be inspired. 
There might be some loyal car 

1898
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:31,680
Starks who want to avenge Rick 
Hard. 

1899
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:35,920
You know, someone who maybe 
already was in love with Alice, 

1900
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:37,760
or, you know, whatever. 
You know, you could see that 

1901
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:41,440
that it wouldn't only completely
always be the worst people. 

1902
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:44,640
There might be some noble hero 
who thinks Jamie should die 

1903
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,640
anyway, and it Rob's not doing 
his job and I'll just do it 

1904
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,920
myself, you know? 
And maybe that's what Rick Art 

1905
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:53,320
was hoping for, you know, 
dreaming of optimistically in 

1906
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,760
his mind when he's already not 
thinking straight, but but 

1907
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:58,320
clearly that that there's all 
these negative things he was not

1908
01:29:58,320 --> 01:29:59,760
thinking about that did happen. 
So. 

1909
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:01,200
Yeah. 
And there's these contradictions

1910
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,760
in his decree and his attitude 
because, which which is makes 

1911
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:07,080
sense because he's in grief and 
in rage and not necessarily 

1912
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:10,320
thinking these things through. 
One of which is like, well, he 

1913
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,200
doesn't expect to be executed or
punished severely for what he 

1914
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:15,520
does. 
Yet when it comes time for it, 

1915
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:17,480
he's so, like, he's so 
aggressive about it. 

1916
01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:19,880
It's like he's mocking Rob. 
It's like he almost wants to be.

1917
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:22,000
It's like he's taunting Robin to
killing him almost. 

1918
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,920
It's like he is so lost a sense 
and so bereaved that he just 

1919
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:30,200
doesn't care because he can't 
fulfill this offer if he's dead.

1920
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:31,160
And that's what ends up 
happening. 

1921
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:33,120
He gets his head chucked off and
he's like, well, how are you 

1922
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:36,560
going to give car hold to give 
someone your daughter's hand in 

1923
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:38,800
marriage if you're not alive to 
do that? 

1924
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:43,240
Yeah, I think it goes back to my
The way I was putting it earlier

1925
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:44,560
is he's become kind of 
nihilistic. 

1926
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,200
He thinks just nothing else 
matters. 

1927
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:49,400
He thinks that everything I 
thought would happen a certain 

1928
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,920
way isn't happening in that way.
So I should be killed for this, 

1929
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:54,440
but I don't think I will. 
Like, he's almost like outside 

1930
01:30:54,440 --> 01:30:57,640
of himself, right? 
And he just, I think he 

1931
01:30:57,640 --> 01:30:59,280
literally doesn't think Rob will
kill him. 

1932
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:01,520
I think if you're going to let 
Caitlin do this, then you're 

1933
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:02,960
not. 
I don't know what you're going 

1934
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:05,760
to do, but I don't expect you to
do the right thing. 

1935
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:09,160
And I'm going to goad you into 
doing it, even if it means my 

1936
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:10,520
own death. 
But he doesn't even think it'll 

1937
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:12,680
mean his own death. 
You know, yeah he he or or maybe

1938
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:13,720
he does. 
It's it's unclear. 

1939
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,520
Like I go back and forth on that
like I'm not sure but he's 

1940
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,040
saying things that are so rude, 
so lost a sense. 

1941
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:23,960
So just like vindictive and and 
just aggressive and not not 

1942
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,600
logical. 
Insulting that even great John 

1943
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:30,240
has had enough and hits him 
while he's just kneeling and and

1944
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:34,760
bound and this is the response. 
Lord Karstark spit out a broken 

1945
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:37,080
tooth. 
Yes, Lord Umber lead me to the 

1946
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:38,840
king. 
He means to give me a scolding 

1947
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,240
before he forgives me. 
That's how he deals with 

1948
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:43,120
treason. 
Our king in the North? 

1949
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:46,960
He smiled a wet, red smile. 
Or should I call you the King 

1950
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:50,080
who lost the North, Your Grace? 
Yeah, Like, this is not what you

1951
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:52,360
say when you're trying to save 
your own life. 

1952
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:56,200
You know, he's clearly now a 
minute later when he does not a 

1953
01:31:56,200 --> 01:31:58,560
minute later, 'cause it's the 
next day that he's executed. 

1954
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,560
Rob thinks about it, and they 
argue for it like Edmure's like,

1955
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:04,880
maybe just hold him captive, you
know, and you know, that'll keep

1956
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:07,680
the other Karstarks loyal. 
And Edmure's like, yeah, you 

1957
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:10,680
know, maybe we can't afford to 
lose if you execute him, like 

1958
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:12,560
we're going to lose them all. 
Like we can't afford to lose 

1959
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:14,040
them. 
You said yourself we can't look 

1960
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,680
forward to lose this, these men 
and then Rob is like, Nope, I 

1961
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:18,520
got to do it. 
You know he killed my honor as 

1962
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:22,120
well as I have no choice. 
He's like I disagree with you 

1963
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:23,280
Rob. 
I think a lot of people disagree

1964
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:24,520
with you Rob. 
There you had a choice. 

1965
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,840
Entering to another point like 
about Karstark whether he wanted

1966
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,440
to live or wanted to die is he 
could have asked taken the black

1967
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:34,320
he didn't like. 
He's lives close to the wall and

1968
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:35,760
Rob would definitely not have 
said no to that. 

1969
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:37,760
Rob would have said OK, yeah, 
that's that's what Northerners 

1970
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:39,000
do. 
Like you take, you ask for the 

1971
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:41,880
black, especially a noble you, 
you let him have it, you know? 

1972
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:45,120
Was it brought up the idea of 
Rob just sending him to the wall

1973
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,800
that anyone suggest that even I 
wonder if that had come up, if 

1974
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:54,240
it would have been considered. 
And on some level I still think 

1975
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:55,920
it was a mistake. 
But I don't think it's this 

1976
01:32:55,920 --> 01:32:59,280
obvious mistake that Rob made, 
because you might lose just as 

1977
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:04,000
many men by not executing him. 
You people, even if you don't, 

1978
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:05,920
even if they don't, like, 
immediately abandoned your army,

1979
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:09,320
you might just lose their their 
their loyalty, their commitment,

1980
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:11,520
their dedication. 
You know, they when things start

1981
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,320
going rough, they remember, 
like, I don't know about this 

1982
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:16,200
Rob guy anyway, Like let's 
himself be insulted in front of 

1983
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:17,240
everyone. 
Like what kind of man? 

1984
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:20,760
What kind of? 
I can just see the other the the

1985
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:23,080
other way it would have gone if 
he didn't isn't just this 

1986
01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:24,560
perfect solution either. 
He is. 

1987
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:26,440
You're right. 
He's very much caught in a rock 

1988
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:28,760
and a hard place here and it's 
it's he gets. 

1989
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:31,400
He gets really. 
This is his most frustrating 

1990
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:32,840
moment as king. 
He takes his crown off. 

1991
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:34,760
He's like, why would anyone ever
want to be King? 

1992
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:37,280
You know? 
He's very upset, and I have. 

1993
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:40,160
A question Do you all think that
sending him to the wall would 

1994
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,480
have been the right choice or he
just also has flaws? 

1995
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:47,720
I think if Rob knew the severity
of things on the wall and the 

1996
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:49,520
importance, I think he would 
have done it. 

1997
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:51,320
I think he would have seen we 
need every man. 

1998
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:55,560
I I think it just shows that he 
doesn't really know how 

1999
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,320
important the wall is. 
If he's just killing men. 

2000
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,520
I think you send him, send him 
up there. 

2001
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:01,920
Yeah, maybe. 
I mean, I don't know. 

2002
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:03,640
I don't know. 
'Cause trot problems for John. 

2003
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:05,560
He could have refused. 
He might have been like, no, I 

2004
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,600
don't want to go, you know, but 
but he does at least, you know, 

2005
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:11,920
yeah, it's it's unclear what he 
would have done. 

2006
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:14,880
I'm not really sure. 
Sitting into the wall might not 

2007
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,960
'cause all the car Starks to 
leave, just some. 

2008
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:20,480
So it might have been better 
than that angle. 

2009
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:24,640
It might have been better in 
that he or or another trouble 

2010
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:26,440
would be he can't just send him 
to the wall. 

2011
01:34:26,440 --> 01:34:28,600
He's got to send people with him
to get him to the wall. 

2012
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,280
Yeah, well, that would only be a
few people and not necessarily 

2013
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:32,960
if you force him, he takes the 
oath, he'll go do it. 

2014
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:34,640
I mean, they would probably 
trust him to do that, but maybe 

2015
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:35,800
not. 
And I don't know if Rob or 

2016
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:38,840
anyone thought this through, but
like, let's just say 5. 

2017
01:34:39,440 --> 01:34:42,080
What if some of the car starts, 
like, let's go free him, let's 

2018
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:44,840
go catch him on the road. 
We'll get our Our Lord back. 

2019
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:46,480
That's possible, yeah. 
That's happened before. 

2020
01:34:46,480 --> 01:34:48,080
Right. 
I think they're you're gambling 

2021
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:50,040
on his honor. 
Really. 

2022
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:51,360
Yeah, which they might not trust
anymore. 

2023
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:52,960
Guy, it is not a good gamble 
right now. 

2024
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:53,960
I agree. 
Yeah. 

2025
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:55,160
It might not have been a good 
gamble. 

2026
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:56,960
You're right. 
Anyway, so let's move forward 

2027
01:34:56,960 --> 01:34:59,320
here. 
There's there's a parallel here 

2028
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:05,160
with Catelyn and Ricard in that 
the way they react to what's 

2029
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:08,920
happened to their children. 
And part of Rob's leniency is 

2030
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:10,760
because, as we discussed, 
there's not a lot of things he 

2031
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:13,640
can do to his mother. 
But the other part of it is that

2032
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:17,600
she actually owns up to it. 
She's like, yeah, I did it. 

2033
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:20,800
I did, here's why I did it, and 
it might work. 

2034
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:26,720
Ricard argues he's like, no, I 
what I did was write, you know I

2035
01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:29,680
I killed those two guards. 
That's fine. 

2036
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:31,920
Like they were. 
Who stands between a man and his

2037
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,080
vengeance. 
That was I had the right of 

2038
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:36,040
vengeance for that. 
He just acts like vengeance is 

2039
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:39,160
like this pass to do whatever. 
And it's like no vengeance. 

2040
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,200
Not vengeance. 
No, no, It's like play the 

2041
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,400
vengeance card and like 
vengeance. 

2042
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,360
Okay. 
Go right through, Sir, you know.

2043
01:35:46,440 --> 01:35:49,000
And you know, it'd be critical 
because in another scenario, if 

2044
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:51,320
guards had abandoned their post,
he would have thought the guard 

2045
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:54,000
should be executed. 
Yes, he wants vengeance. 

2046
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:55,560
He thinks the guard should get 
out of his way. 

2047
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:56,600
Yeah, Yeah. 
Like what? 

2048
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:58,280
Guards. 
Just step aside like, oh, yes, 

2049
01:35:58,280 --> 01:35:59,520
go ahead, kill the prisoners. 
Yes. 

2050
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,640
My, if you had just said 
vengeance up front, you know, 

2051
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,840
that would have been fine, you 
know, But where's your vengeance

2052
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:09,200
pass, You know, So and these 
are, again, these are children. 

2053
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:12,480
These are not men. 
It still would be bad if they 

2054
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:14,920
were men or women. 
But these were children, right? 

2055
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:16,760
These were like 12 year olds or 
something like that. 

2056
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:23,640
And so they know it was wrong. 
And it's think also of at the 

2057
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,040
end of this book, Storm of 
Swords, where there's a similar 

2058
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:29,560
moment where Barristan and Jorah
are brought before Danny to 

2059
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:32,600
apologize for what they've done,
for their deception, for the 

2060
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,960
things they've done. 
Barristan apologizes. 

2061
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,840
He owns up to what he's did. 
Jorah is like, no, it wasn't me 

2062
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:42,080
I had to like. 
It was his fault. 

2063
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:44,480
Did you think of this guy? 
Like, why not blame him? 

2064
01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:47,200
He's just like, I've done 
everything for you. 

2065
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:50,560
He just expects to be forgiven. 
Doesn't it's a bad look. 

2066
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:54,160
He handles it very badly and and
Barristan handles it very well 

2067
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:58,280
and Danny responds accordingly. 
She forgives Barristan and sends

2068
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:00,200
Jorah away. 
You know if he had, if he had 

2069
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:01,880
groveled properly he's at the 
grovel. 

2070
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:04,440
But if he had apologized 
properly she would have probably

2071
01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:06,120
been moved because she was on 
the fence. 

2072
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:09,040
We're in her head and we see 
that and I'm we're not in Rob's 

2073
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:11,400
head. 
But I feel like if Carstark had 

2074
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:13,240
said the right things, and 
certainly not just throwing it 

2075
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,840
back in his face and mocked him 
for losing the North like that's

2076
01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:19,280
that's not much coming back from
that, I think. 

2077
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:21,360
Also, a lot of that was public 
too. 

2078
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:23,600
If they were in a private room 
and Carstark did these 

2079
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:27,520
disrespectful things, maybe Rob 
can let him get away with it. 

2080
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:29,840
Yeah, but not when everyone is a
witness to it. 

2081
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:33,200
Yeah, yeah. 
And so when it comes to the 

2082
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:38,120
moment, you know, the morning 
it's raining and it's cold and 

2083
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:42,560
it's dreary and the execution's 
about to happen, Rickard finally

2084
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:44,040
softens a bit. 
It's been, it's the next day 

2085
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:46,280
he's had. 
He's slept on it, I guess, and 

2086
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:49,520
here's what he says. 
I was named for your 

2087
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:52,040
grandfather. 
I raised my banners against King

2088
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:55,120
Aries for your father, and 
against King Joffrey for you. 

2089
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:58,520
At Ox Cross in the Whispering 
Wood and in the Battle of the 

2090
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:01,600
Camps, I rode beside you, and I 
stood with Lord Eddard on the 

2091
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,680
Trident. 
You're Akin, Stark and Karstark.

2092
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:08,800
That quote we read earlier that 
Asha read about the history of 

2093
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,440
Karstark the car hold and Carlin
Stark and all that. 

2094
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:15,320
That is a thought. 
Catlin has right at this moment.

2095
01:38:15,440 --> 01:38:19,200
Right in response to that the 
declaration that we are kin and 

2096
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:20,400
catlin's like, yeah, he's not 
wrong. 

2097
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:24,640
Blah, blah, blah goes back 1000 
years and it's still it's still 

2098
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:26,600
a stretch. 
This is still not this wouldn't 

2099
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:28,320
be considered kinslang. 
It certainly wouldn't be 

2100
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:30,600
considered incest for their 
children to marry which he was 

2101
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:32,600
pushing for. 
In fact he was pushing for his 

2102
01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:37,240
daughter to marry Rob. 
So you know specifically Rob. 

2103
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:41,560
So it's not this is this is to 
me. 

2104
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:43,320
He is actually trying to save 
his life here. 

2105
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:47,120
Whereas the night before he was 
so bereft and and mad that he no

2106
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:48,560
matter what happened he wouldn't
have cared for. 

2107
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,680
Now he's like, you know, I kind 
of want to live. 

2108
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:53,160
He's not going to. 
He's too honorable, too like, 

2109
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,320
proud to push for it too much. 
He's not going to beg. 

2110
01:38:55,320 --> 01:38:58,440
He's not going to cry, but he's 
going to make an argument. 

2111
01:38:58,440 --> 01:39:00,360
I don't know if I completely 
agree with you, OK? 

2112
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,880
For one, I don't even know if he
knows what he wants or expects 

2113
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:06,920
or saying but. 
But I think he's still. 

2114
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:09,680
I don't know how to say this. 
He's trying to make it seem like

2115
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:14,320
Rob's making a bad decision. 
He's like, I'm this close, loyal

2116
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:15,720
ally and you're going to kill 
me. 

2117
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,200
I don't think he. 
I don't even think he's 

2118
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:21,000
necessarily expecting him to not
kill him. 

2119
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:24,240
He's trying to make it more 
clear to everyone around that 

2120
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:27,400
Rob is making a mistake, that I 
was justified. 

2121
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:30,360
You should have let me do this. 
I'm your close ally. 

2122
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:33,000
You can kill me, but he's almost
hinting at. 

2123
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:35,400
But you'll be a Kinslayer. 
Oh, he doesn't hint at it. 

2124
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:37,200
He says it. 
He says kill me then and be 

2125
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:40,240
cursed. 
Because when Rob says no, he's 

2126
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:42,280
like no, he's like, well you're 
this kinship didn't stop you 

2127
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:45,120
from. 
I think he's still, yeah. 

2128
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:47,920
And now Rob has the correct 
argument back, but I think that 

2129
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:51,240
he's still trying to argue that 
Rob is making errors. 

2130
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:54,000
Yeah, and I think he's right. 
Rob had Rob did not handle the 

2131
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,520
situation well. 
It was, it was he put like his 

2132
01:39:56,520 --> 01:40:00,440
father. 
He put honor above like winning.

2133
01:40:00,440 --> 01:40:02,600
But he's still not apologizing. 
That's the thing. 

2134
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:04,240
None of this is. 
That's why I don't think he's 

2135
01:40:04,240 --> 01:40:07,560
like, softening per SE. 
He's not saying like, you're 

2136
01:40:07,560 --> 01:40:08,680
right, I shouldn't have done 
this. 

2137
01:40:09,200 --> 01:40:11,480
He's not saying that. 
He's still trying to rub it into

2138
01:40:11,480 --> 01:40:12,440
Rob. 
'S Yeah, you're right. 

2139
01:40:12,440 --> 01:40:15,080
He never does apologize. 
Yeah, I mean, he's also, if he 

2140
01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:17,800
actually cared about the 
stability of the realm and about

2141
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:21,760
the success of the North, he 
wouldn't badmouth him up to his 

2142
01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:23,800
grave. 
I would want Rob to have 

2143
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:25,760
stability, right? 
He wouldn't do that. 

2144
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:29,440
So yeah, he's not thinking about
anyone else but him and his 

2145
01:40:29,440 --> 01:40:31,280
close kin. 
Only that's why I made the point

2146
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,320
earlier that he is clearly more 
concerned with his dead sons 

2147
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,400
than his living children. 
He's his actions, put them at 

2148
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:39,480
risk. 
His house, his Kingdom, all 

2149
01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:41,360
those things, and it's all about
vengeance. 

2150
01:40:41,480 --> 01:40:43,040
Yeah, I was going to say that's 
part of. 

2151
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:47,240
I think what he's doing here is 
more so than, like, hoping that 

2152
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:48,840
Rob will suddenly change his 
mind. 

2153
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:51,280
He's trying to make sure 
everyone around goes to get 

2154
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:52,840
Jamie. 
Rob's messing up. 

2155
01:40:52,840 --> 01:40:54,920
You need to go get Jamie. 
Yeah, I think that's at least 

2156
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:57,520
part of what's happening here. 
Is like I was justified in this.

2157
01:40:57,520 --> 01:41:00,520
Jamie needs to die. 
You can kill me if you want. 

2158
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:03,920
You're a Kinslayer or whatever, 
but I want everyone to hear I 

2159
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:05,960
was justified. 
You need to get vengeance for 

2160
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:06,880
me. 
Yeah, yeah. 

2161
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:10,520
And that does sort of happen. 
The Karstark men, as soon as 

2162
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:12,200
he's executed, they start 
leaving right away. 

2163
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:15,040
And Blackfish tells them and 
this is the conversation they 

2164
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:17,960
have quote. 
Will they reform away from River

2165
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:18,880
Run? 
Asked Rob. 

2166
01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:24,320
No, they've scattered hunting. 
Lord Karstark has sworn to give 

2167
01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:29,440
the hand of his maiden daughter 
to any man, highborn or low, who

2168
01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:31,880
brings him the head of the 
Kingslayer. 

2169
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:35,240
So that's Rob finding out about 
this decree that that Karstark 

2170
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:40,520
had issued before he was 
executed and before, even before

2171
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,680
he was condemned. 
It was before he went to go kill

2172
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:44,760
the prisoners. 
He did this. 

2173
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:47,000
So again, yeah, really huge 
deal. 

2174
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:50,400
Like consider just to return to 
this topic for briefly the the 

2175
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:54,040
idea of what he's offering. 
Consider that you are a car hold

2176
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:55,400
person. 
You're born there, you've lived 

2177
01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:59,200
there all your life. 
People not only don't have much 

2178
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:00,920
social mobility, they don't have
much mobility, period. 

2179
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:03,440
In terms of like moving and 
living under a different Lord. 

2180
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:08,600
So the idea like that you could 
ever marry into your Lord's 

2181
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:11,120
family is just unthinkable. 
Like you wouldn't even, just 

2182
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:14,200
wouldn't even cross your mind. 
I mean, it's almost like the 

2183
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:16,920
modern equipment is like, I 
don't know, some famous pop 

2184
01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:19,560
stars, like whoever brings me 
the head of this guy or brings 

2185
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,960
me something that would be a 
little, little much for modern 

2186
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:23,200
times. 
Bring me the head of somebody. 

2187
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:26,880
But like, like, I don't know, 
Lady Gaga is like, whoever does 

2188
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:28,920
this will marry me. 
I I will marry them, you know, 

2189
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:30,520
And she's serious, completely 
serious about it. 

2190
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,320
It'd be like the the rush to 
accomplish this task, whatever 

2191
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:35,560
it is, would be immense and 
insane and chaotic. 

2192
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:39,920
And yeah, it would be something.
Wasn't that like that Owen 

2193
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:42,520
Wilson movie that happened or? 
Was there something, was there a

2194
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:43,840
movie like this where that 
really. 

2195
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:45,880
Yeah, it was. 
Yeah, yeah, it was the movie 

2196
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:47,320
with. 
It was that movie with Jlo and 

2197
01:42:47,320 --> 01:42:50,240
Owen Wilson. 
It says the pop superstar Kat 

2198
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:54,320
Valdez is about to get married 
before an audience of her loyal 

2199
01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:57,080
fans. 
Seconds before the ceremony, she

2200
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:59,960
learns about her fiance's 
cheating ways and has a 

2201
01:42:59,960 --> 01:43:02,440
meltdown. 
And so she sees an A total 

2202
01:43:02,440 --> 01:43:05,400
stranger, Owen Wilson, in the 
crowd and she marries him on the

2203
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:07,440
spot. 
She picks him out and marries 

2204
01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:08,200
him. 
Apparently. 

2205
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:09,920
I haven't seen this movie. 
I just. 

2206
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:13,960
That's so funny. 
Yeah, it's like. 

2207
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:17,240
That. 
How lucky for Jennifer Lopez? 

2208
01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:20,800
Yeah, yeah, right. 
Owen Wilson. 

2209
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:23,680
What a catch. 
He's a big movie star. 

2210
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,800
It's not. 
I was really lucky like it was. 

2211
01:43:26,440 --> 01:43:27,920
Anyway, how does she not know 
who he was? 

2212
01:43:30,120 --> 01:43:34,880
Anyway, So there's one Carhall, 
daughter of this generation. 

2213
01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:38,560
Like the idea that you some to 
to use Stannis's language. 

2214
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:41,920
Later some base born man Jack 
thinks he has a chance to marry 

2215
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,560
Alice Karstark. 
Hell no, it's not even on the 

2216
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:46,600
table. 
But actually it is on the table.

2217
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:49,880
You know, like wow. 
And she was first betrothed to 

2218
01:43:49,880 --> 01:43:54,120
Darren Hornwood, right. 
The guy that a Lord Ling, the 

2219
01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:56,840
heir to Hornwood like this is 
you would expect her to marry 

2220
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:59,400
someone of that rank. 
And this, this letter, there's 

2221
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:02,040
there's a little bit of a 
confusion here because Alice 

2222
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:05,520
finds Alice tells John that that
after Darren Hornwood's death 

2223
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:08,120
Rickard sent her a letter saying
we'll find you a good Southern 

2224
01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:10,680
Lord to marry you too. 
So this just deepens the 

2225
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:13,600
betrayal that he goes back on 
that promise. 

2226
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:16,240
Like you know what? 
I'll find you some person to 

2227
01:44:16,280 --> 01:44:18,040
marry. 
It won't be a sovereign Lord. 

2228
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:22,720
It might be a Lord, but the odds
aren't good 'cause I opened it 

2229
01:44:22,720 --> 01:44:26,080
up to anyone. 
Yeah, maybe Ricard just assumed 

2230
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:27,560
it would be a Lord. 
Like who else is going to 

2231
01:44:27,560 --> 01:44:28,800
capture Jamie? 
Like some? 

2232
01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:32,360
It could have been a random 
person, but he just again, we're

2233
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:34,800
not going to scrutinize this 
plan that he clearly didn't 

2234
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:37,640
think through very much, 'cause 
he clearly didn't think it 

2235
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:40,320
through very much. 
Let's talk about these hunters 

2236
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:43,560
and and broken men. 
They appear everywhere. 

2237
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:47,040
It's not just Car Starks, but 
it's mostly car sharks because 

2238
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,720
they're the ones who received 
the offer initially, and then by

2239
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:54,120
the time probably word gets out,
word is also going to have 

2240
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:57,480
gotten out that Car Stark is 
dead and unable to fulfill the 

2241
01:44:57,480 --> 01:45:01,040
terms of that contract. 
So folk who lived for 

2242
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:04,520
generations in Car Stark lands 
are now like just rampaging all 

2243
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:06,960
over the South looking for Jaime
Lannister. 

2244
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:11,200
Just everywhere they might go, a
group of 10 or 20, a group of 10

2245
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:12,520
or 20, like I said, it's all 
over the place. 

2246
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:14,360
It's card Stark men who show up 
at Acorn Hall. 

2247
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:18,000
Remember, Arya goes to goes 
around the Riverlands and then 

2248
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:20,000
one of those places she goes is 
Acorn Hall. 

2249
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:24,720
That's where the woman dresses 
her up and says, you know, I had

2250
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:26,760
a, a daughter your age who died 
young and all. 

2251
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:30,160
It's very sad. 
And she says, yeah, some some 

2252
01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:35,280
dudes and White Sons and Black 
Cloaks showed up and we sent 

2253
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:37,400
them, we sent them on their way 
with some crossbow bolts, you 

2254
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:39,600
know, And they were like, they 
were asking if we had Jaime 

2255
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:41,400
Lannister in there. 
He's like, well, he's not in my 

2256
01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:44,560
bed, you know, But she all that 
stuff. 

2257
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:46,720
And that brings us to Vargo 
Hote, right, 'cause we know 

2258
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:47,840
these. 
This is just one example. 

2259
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,240
This is the example George gives
us of these roving bands of men.

2260
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,720
But it's implied. 
Well, not just implied. 

2261
01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:55,920
We know there's lots more of 
these this happening, this, this

2262
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:57,480
sort of thing was happening all 
over the Riverlands. 

2263
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:01,640
So Hote himself specifically 
tries to claim this offer. 

2264
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:04,720
When the Brave Companions 
capture Jaime, it kicks off kind

2265
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:07,720
of a confusing series of events 
that George recognizes as 

2266
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:11,880
confusing, so he basically has 
ruse explain it kind of 

2267
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:14,320
straightforwardly. 
At dinner with Jamie and 

2268
01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:16,960
Brienne, he tells Jamie that 
Marco Hote would never have 

2269
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:23,480
ransomed you back to your father
because he needed safety, and 

2270
01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:24,960
that's what Carhold was going to
get him. 

2271
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:28,320
He was going to trade Jamie for 
marriage to Alice and then go 

2272
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:31,160
flee N where Tywin couldn't get 
him. 

2273
01:46:31,440 --> 01:46:33,520
He was actually going to double 
cross Tywin, collect the ransom,

2274
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:36,600
and then not deliver Jamie. 
Which is like, whoa, what a 

2275
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:38,000
what? 
A what? 

2276
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:42,280
A planned heist that is. 
You're going to abscond with 

2277
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:43,800
money from Tywin. 
You think he's going to forget 

2278
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:45,280
about that? 
He just really expects that 

2279
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:48,400
distance to protect him, which 
it might have, but I don't know 

2280
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:49,920
about that. 
But he he of course, it never 

2281
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:52,880
came to pass. 
So yeah, the point being, he 

2282
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:55,760
needed safety more than he 
needed money, but he was going 

2283
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,800
to try to get both. 
So I don't know that he expected

2284
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:01,480
someone quite so terrible as 
Vargo to try to take up this 

2285
01:47:01,480 --> 01:47:02,640
offer. 
But if he had thought about it 

2286
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:04,560
for like 10 seconds, it would 
have been obvious. 

2287
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:06,640
But it was also something Vargo 
didn't realize. 

2288
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:11,280
Vargo Tell basically tells his 
men in front of Ruse that he's 

2289
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:15,360
going to do this. 
He's like, I'm going to cheat 

2290
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:18,760
Tywin and give the hand, you 
know, to Lord Kar Stark and get 

2291
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:21,080
car hold and ruse is like a fine
plan. 

2292
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:25,000
However, Rob already cut Lord 
Carstar's head off. 

2293
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:26,320
So you're not collecting 
anything. 

2294
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:30,240
And he's like, oh, Robert 
doesn't have a response to that.

2295
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:32,600
So you're like, well, what am I 
going to do? 

2296
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:33,800
Well, I'll tell you what he's 
going to do. 

2297
01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:37,840
He's going to forcibly marry 
Alice and kill Harian. 

2298
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:39,760
That's the plan. 
That's the plan that I outlined 

2299
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:40,960
before. 
It's a pretty straightforward 

2300
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:45,320
plan for anyone who has the lack
of scruples enough to pull it 

2301
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:47,160
off. 
And guess where. 

2302
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:51,040
Harry and Karstark was in prison
for a while at Harrenhal, but 

2303
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:54,160
before Vargo could like, kill 
him or put all this together, 

2304
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:59,080
Ruse had taken control and Ruse 
set Harry and free, seemingly to

2305
01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:01,240
continue the war. 
But what does Ruse do? 

2306
01:48:01,240 --> 01:48:04,040
He's like, take most of the car 
hold men, take these other men 

2307
01:48:04,040 --> 01:48:10,600
that belong to houses that I 
want to weaken and go attack 

2308
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:12,760
Duskendale. 
And then he later pretends that 

2309
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:14,400
he had nothing to do. 
It's like, yeah, it was, it was 

2310
01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:18,000
more grief. 
It was, it was House Telhart, 

2311
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:18,480
right. 
Of course. 

2312
01:48:18,480 --> 01:48:19,320
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

2313
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:24,000
That they were too lost a sense 
and just wanted revenge and did 

2314
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:26,080
that. 
And yeah, it just didn't. 

2315
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:28,720
They all got slaughtered. 
They got, they got, they got 

2316
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:31,680
attacked by Gregor and Randall 
Tarly. 

2317
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:34,800
They were slaughtered. 
It was really bad. 

2318
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:39,840
And Harrien survived, though. 
He was captured, so he was in 

2319
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:43,840
prison in Harrenhal, got out, 
went to this fight, this Battle 

2320
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:48,320
of Duskindale was captured again
and is at Maidenpool under 

2321
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:52,080
'cause remember Randall Tarly 
also conquered Maidenpool and 

2322
01:48:52,080 --> 01:48:55,360
that's when Brienne goes there, 
he's in charge and it doesn't 

2323
01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:59,120
come up that that Harry and 
Karstark is there when Brienne 

2324
01:48:59,120 --> 01:49:00,880
is there, but we know that's the
case. 

2325
01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:06,640
So honestly, had Lord Rickard 
not been executed, The Who, this

2326
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:08,080
this same thing might have 
happened. 

2327
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:11,560
He might have tried to kill him,
You know, like, well, I I want 

2328
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:13,840
to kill you and your son so I 
can pee. 

2329
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:16,560
Lord of Carl, it's like, thanks 
for thanks for your daughter. 

2330
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:20,720
Now I'm going to kill you so I 
can rule this place ruse. 

2331
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:23,000
When he's talking to Jamie, he's
like, I hope nothing. 

2332
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:25,680
I'll befell Harry in a 
Duskindale like as if he wasn't 

2333
01:49:25,680 --> 01:49:29,800
sending him into a trap And and 
then that makes Jamie nervous 

2334
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:33,640
because he's like, well, what's 
stopping you from marrying Alice

2335
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:37,480
and claiming car hold you who 
are neighbors to car hold. 

2336
01:49:37,480 --> 01:49:38,480
It would make a lot of sense for
you to. 

2337
01:49:38,480 --> 01:49:40,560
He's like, well, I already 
married Fat Walda. 

2338
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:43,040
He's like, well, he says I 
already married a Fred. 

2339
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:44,640
He's like fare Walda. 
Nah, Fat Walda. 

2340
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:46,920
He said I could have weight in 
silver. 

2341
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:50,760
So I chose accordingly. 
I was like, OK then, yeah, 

2342
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:52,640
nothing wrong with that. 
So yeah, it just shows you how 

2343
01:49:52,640 --> 01:49:55,640
awful people flood in when the 
opportunity for power is there. 

2344
01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:58,920
It's not like an even 
distribution of good guys and 

2345
01:49:58,920 --> 01:50:00,360
bad guys that will take up this 
offer. 

2346
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:04,200
It's mostly it turns neutral 
people into bad guys too, 'cause

2347
01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:05,960
it's like, well, I, I. 
What are you willing? 

2348
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:07,800
What are you going to do? 
What would you do for a Klondike

2349
01:50:07,800 --> 01:50:10,160
bar? 
What would you do for Car hold? 

2350
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:13,360
You know, like I wouldn't do 
evil for a Klondike bar. 

2351
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:15,680
I might do evil for Car hold. 
I don't know. 

2352
01:50:16,160 --> 01:50:17,600
How. 
How much evil are we talking 

2353
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:20,120
about here? 
I'm not killing children, but 

2354
01:50:20,120 --> 01:50:22,800
like, maybe I'll kill some bad 
guys, you know? 

2355
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:23,760
I don't know. 
I don't know. 

2356
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:26,440
I don't know. 
So, yeah, Winterfell attracted 

2357
01:50:26,440 --> 01:50:30,000
Boltons and Ironborn. 
Car Hold attracted worse. 

2358
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:35,040
Karstarks like Arnolf and Dragon
and and well, Ricard turned bad,

2359
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:35,880
I guess. 
I don't know. 

2360
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:39,520
And and Jaime Lannister had 
roles in both of these 

2361
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:41,800
scenarios, right? 
He he threw Jaime, he threw Bran

2362
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:47,200
from tower, which is throwing 
off the Stark succession, and he

2363
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:50,640
killed Torin and Eddard 
Karstark, which kicked off all 

2364
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:53,600
this other stuff. 
So Jamie, you're such a pivotal 

2365
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:56,120
character, aren't you? 
He had a hand in both those 

2366
01:50:56,160 --> 01:50:58,720
things, but it was the same hand
because you couldn't have one 

2367
01:50:58,720 --> 01:50:59,480
hand in each. 
That's. 

2368
01:50:59,800 --> 01:51:00,720
True. 
Yeah, that's. 

2369
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:02,760
That's true. 
He can put his gold hand in one 

2370
01:51:02,760 --> 01:51:06,120
of them, you know. 
So, Harian, let's talk about 

2371
01:51:06,120 --> 01:51:08,080
Harian. 
Karstark, this is a guy who went

2372
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:12,120
through a lot, as I said, he, he
led the Green Fork army, which 

2373
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:14,040
didn't go well. 
It was meant to be a ruse. 

2374
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:16,360
It was meant to be difficult. 
And they were expected to lose 

2375
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:17,600
again. 
He was captured. 

2376
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:19,600
Now, I, like I said, he was 
taking to Harrenhal, but we 

2377
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:21,640
actually have a quote. 
Arya sees him, doesn't know who 

2378
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:23,840
he is, but we do. 
And here it is quote. 

2379
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:26,560
No one ransomed the North men, 
though. 

2380
01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:30,280
One fat Lord Ling haunted the 
kitchens, Hoppite told her, 

2381
01:51:30,480 --> 01:51:34,720
always looking for a Marcel. 
His mustache was so bushy that 

2382
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:38,560
it covered his mouth, and the 
clasp that held his cloak was a 

2383
01:51:38,560 --> 01:51:43,640
silver and sapphire Trident. 
He belonged to Lord Tywin, but 

2384
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:46,960
the fierce, bearded young man 
who liked to walk the 

2385
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:51,240
battlements alone in a black 
cloak patterned with white Suns 

2386
01:51:51,480 --> 01:51:55,040
had been taken by some hedge 
knight who meant to get rich off

2387
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:57,560
him. 
Sansa would have known who he 

2388
01:51:57,560 --> 01:52:02,000
was, and the Fat One too, but 
Arya had never taken much 

2389
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:06,360
interest in titles and sigils. 
Fat one's obviously Willis 

2390
01:52:06,360 --> 01:52:08,720
Manderly, who also has a really 
horrible time of it. 

2391
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:09,960
Or that's Wait, is that Wendell 
Nuts? 

2392
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:11,280
Yeah, it's Willis, I think. 
Yeah, it's Willis. 

2393
01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:13,520
And he has a really horrible 
time of it. 

2394
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:16,680
He's forced into cannibalism 
later and very bad, very bad. 

2395
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:19,240
Harry and Karstar, Interesting 
guy walking the battlements 

2396
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:21,400
alone, captured by a hedge 
knight. 

2397
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:23,200
That's a little embarrassing for
him, I suppose. 

2398
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:25,640
I wonder if Ruse just was like, 
just took him. 

2399
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:29,560
Like, screw your head Tonight 
you get nothing because Ruse let

2400
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:31,040
him free. 
We don't, we don't hear like any

2401
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:33,680
other circumstances. 
He was freed by Ruse but after 

2402
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:37,000
Arya and Jacquin pulled off the 
weasel soup incident and there 

2403
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:38,960
were Karstark met among the 
false prisoners. 

2404
01:52:38,960 --> 01:52:41,720
So they were part of the whole 
attack from within. 

2405
01:52:41,720 --> 01:52:44,000
But then they were sent into 
that trap, a dust can tail by 

2406
01:52:44,040 --> 01:52:45,800
Ruse. 
So it's like they pulled off 

2407
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:48,120
this great maneuver and then 
they were sent to their deaths 

2408
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:54,520
and Rob worries that executing 
Lord Rickard has made him an 

2409
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:57,880
enemy of Harry and Karstar. 
But Blackfish says don't be so 

2410
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:00,600
sure. 
Not all sons like their father. 

2411
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:03,760
You liked yours cause your 
father was a good man. 

2412
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:06,880
But, you know, don't be so sure 
that Harry and was a big fan of 

2413
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:09,640
his dad. 
And he might thank you, not 

2414
01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:12,440
publicly, but he might be 
grateful that you just made him 

2415
01:53:12,440 --> 01:53:15,080
the Lord. 
Aaron may be more upset with his

2416
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:17,600
dad than he would have been 
after this decree about his 

2417
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:18,160
sister. 
Right. 

2418
01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:19,800
Yeah, Yeah. 
So. 

2419
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:22,160
And of course now Rob's dead 
anyway, so he might have an 

2420
01:53:22,160 --> 01:53:24,400
issue with the Starks, but he 
doesn't have an issue with. 

2421
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:26,400
I mean, he might have an issue 
with Rob, but he doesn't 

2422
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:27,680
necessarily. 
That doesn't necessarily mean 

2423
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:30,680
he's like blood feud against, 
you know, Sansa or something 

2424
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:34,080
like that. 
And and Speaking of Sansa, when 

2425
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:38,560
Brienne is at Duskendale looking
for Sansa, she sees armor and 

2426
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:43,320
clothing for sale that by 
looters who looted that 

2427
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:47,400
battlefield. 
She sees Karstark gear for sale 

2428
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:51,080
used and bloody and you know, 
dented battlefield stuff. 

2429
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:53,400
So those are the guys who fought
beside Harian. 

2430
01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:55,720
Yeah. 
So we don't know if Harry what 

2431
01:53:55,720 --> 01:53:58,680
what Harian's whereabouts are. 
He's probably still at 

2432
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:00,600
Maidenpool. 
But Randall Tarly went to King's

2433
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:03,480
Landing and might have brought 
him along, which is interesting 

2434
01:54:03,480 --> 01:54:08,080
because Randall Tarly is a guy 
that might switch sides or 

2435
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:09,680
probably will switch sides to 
Aegon. 

2436
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:12,720
So like, how does that factor 
in? 

2437
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:15,400
Is he going to keep Harry in as 
a way to keep maybe Carhold on 

2438
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:19,120
Egon's side, or I don't know. 
That's an interesting 

2439
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:20,000
consideration. 
I don't know. 

2440
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:22,720
I haven't really considered the 
North all that much in terms of 

2441
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:24,200
Egon, 'cause it's so chaotic 
right now. 

2442
01:54:24,200 --> 01:54:26,600
Stannis is up there and I don't 
know that they're going to be 

2443
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:29,200
fighting the South so much if 
they're so busy. 

2444
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:31,800
I haven't thought this about 
this very much either, but it 

2445
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:35,400
might not matter much to have 
Carhold on his side, like all 

2446
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:38,000
the men went South and got 
killed and scattered. 

2447
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:40,360
I don't know. 
It's something for down the road

2448
01:54:40,360 --> 01:54:42,120
maybe then something that is 
immediately important. 

2449
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:43,320
Maybe. 
But yeah, like having the 

2450
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:46,400
support of Car Whole just in 
name might be beneficial, but 

2451
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:47,760
like, can they provide material 
support? 

2452
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:49,920
Yeah, probably not. 
Either way, it's interesting 

2453
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:53,640
that he's in the hands of 
someone who might switch sides 

2454
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,440
and that could change his 
outcome. 

2455
01:54:55,640 --> 01:54:58,560
Now, I doubt he's in any any 
more of danger being executed 

2456
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:04,320
now, but that was the idea. 
The reason Arnold Karstark 

2457
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:08,280
declares he's on Stannis's side 
is not because he wants to 

2458
01:55:08,280 --> 01:55:09,720
support Stannis. 
It's not because he thinks 

2459
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:13,640
Stannis is going to win, it's 
because he by taking sides with 

2460
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:16,520
Stannis, he expects the 
Lannisters to execute Harian. 

2461
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:20,920
Doesn't work, does not work, but
that's why he does it according 

2462
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:23,200
to Alice. 
And Arnold's behavior later 

2463
01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:27,360
really makes it pretty clear 
that yes, Alice was telling the 

2464
01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:29,280
truth there. 
He's he's actually tries this 

2465
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:30,600
multiple times. 
He's like a couple times where 

2466
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:32,560
he tries to get them to execute 
Harry and tries to get them to 

2467
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:34,640
execute Harian at Harrenhal. 
And then again it yeah, it just 

2468
01:55:34,640 --> 01:55:36,800
doesn't work. 
Now remember, Jamie actually 

2469
01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:40,400
orders all prisoners taken at 
the Red Wedding, and they're 

2470
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:43,920
about to be sent to King's 
Landing, which includes the 

2471
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,160
Great John. 
Now, we don't know if this has 

2472
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:48,160
actually happened yet. 
It probably hasn't yet and the 

2473
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:50,960
the phrase might say no, they 
might try to and then they try 

2474
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:53,280
to delay or hold on to him 
longer, but they might just say,

2475
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:56,800
OK, fine, here he is. 
Which that opens up a whole can 

2476
01:55:56,800 --> 01:55:58,720
of worms there because the 
Brother Without Banners could 

2477
01:55:58,720 --> 01:56:02,280
free him on the way as they're 
trying to maybe free Alice 

2478
01:56:02,280 --> 01:56:06,480
Westerling and Ed Muir. 
So all sorts of possibilities 

2479
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:07,960
there. 
And if Greatshawn does make it 

2480
01:56:07,960 --> 01:56:10,200
to King's Landing is in prison 
there, maybe Herring is too. 

2481
01:56:10,200 --> 01:56:13,240
And it'd be kind of an odd 
reunion of Karstark and Umber 

2482
01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:16,440
and in the black cells of of 
King's Landing that would be 

2483
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:21,240
kind of strange and very very 
far ahead of looking ahead. 

2484
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:23,760
If Herring gets out of this, 
Greatshawn gets out of this, if 

2485
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:26,760
they ever get to return N we 
know what they'll be doing. 

2486
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:28,760
It won't be any easier. 
They'll be fighting the others 

2487
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:31,360
most likely. 
So if they survive to that 

2488
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:34,760
point, they it doesn't get, you 
know, the road ahead will be 

2489
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:39,240
well snowed in, we'll say. 
It is such a daunting tragedy. 

2490
01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:41,560
This whole thing, all the 
struggles everyone's gone 

2491
01:56:41,560 --> 01:56:45,080
through, is just the beginning. 
I can't even know how much worse

2492
01:56:45,080 --> 01:56:46,560
it's going to. 
Be Yeah, yeah. 

2493
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:49,200
Alice likes her brother. 
She calls him Harry. 

2494
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:51,520
You know she's calls her other 
brothers by nicknames. 

2495
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:53,560
So she there's no bad blood 
there as far as we know. 

2496
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:55,880
So that that builds on what we 
were saying about maybe she'll 

2497
01:56:55,880 --> 01:56:59,720
he'll be upset about what his 
father did to her and to him 

2498
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:03,480
that might soften his stance 
towards the Starks, which, you 

2499
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:05,400
know, Alice isn't mad at the 
Starks, you know. 

2500
01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:10,200
So anyway, so she's still a 
target for those reasons, or at 

2501
01:57:10,200 --> 01:57:12,440
least was until the events of A 
Dance of Dragons. 

2502
01:57:12,440 --> 01:57:15,200
Let's talk about her. 
The girl in grey, that's what 

2503
01:57:15,200 --> 01:57:18,120
Melisandre sees her on in her 
vision, it's a girl in grey on a

2504
01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:20,800
dying horse. 
Melisandre says it's got to be 

2505
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:24,720
Arya, you know. 
And as I said at the start, this

2506
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:29,960
adds this really nice layer of 
depth because she is a lot like 

2507
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:31,600
Aria. 
Even though John's like that 

2508
01:57:31,600 --> 01:57:32,920
wasn't Aria. 
You were wrong. 

2509
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:35,360
You were wrong. 
You know, I don't feel great 

2510
01:57:35,360 --> 01:57:39,560
about Arian's chances for 
survival made in part because I 

2511
01:57:39,560 --> 01:57:41,680
think it might make the story 
more interesting if he dies and 

2512
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:44,880
Alice becomes Lady of Carr Hold 
because a, it would be notable 

2513
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:47,040
for a number of reasons. 
There's, as far as we know, 

2514
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:48,840
there's never been a Lady of 
Carr Hold, just like there's 

2515
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:51,440
never been a Lady of Winterfell.
Carr Hold is much younger. 

2516
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:53,600
So this is a longer, a shorter 
period of time for that to have,

2517
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:56,480
you know, taking place or not 
taking place, really. 

2518
01:57:56,640 --> 01:57:59,720
And if she and Sigorne's 
children inherit, that'd just be

2519
01:57:59,720 --> 01:58:01,920
so interesting. 
It'd be kind of bail the Bardian

2520
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:04,680
ish. 
We have a a free folk marriage 

2521
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:07,680
to a major house and it's just 
accepted. 

2522
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:10,760
And what if, what if the story 
ends in Sansa's Lady of 

2523
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:12,960
Winterfell and Alice's Lady of 
Carr Hold. 

2524
01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:16,400
You have like, this new, brave 
new world of women in charge of 

2525
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:17,880
they won't be in charge of every
house. 

2526
01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:19,840
But it also does make sense 
because so many of the men have 

2527
01:58:19,840 --> 01:58:23,400
been killed. 
It's not just about the rise of 

2528
01:58:23,400 --> 01:58:27,840
women just because it's they're 
capable And the men, or half of 

2529
01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:29,120
them are dead, or more than half
of them. 

2530
01:58:29,120 --> 01:58:32,080
I don't know. 
It was a piece of World War 2. 

2531
01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:36,440
You know, it's all the men going
off to war and more work needed 

2532
01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:39,720
to be done to, you know, 
manufacture the war machine. 

2533
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:42,560
So women went to work. 
And that was like a big movement

2534
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:45,040
that still took generations and 
we're still not there yet when 

2535
01:58:45,040 --> 01:58:48,280
it comes to equality. 
But it was a a big step, you 

2536
01:58:48,360 --> 01:58:50,400
know. 
But it's also the type of thing 

2537
01:58:50,400 --> 01:58:52,000
that it's so neat to think 
about. 

2538
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:55,480
But like, George can't write 
this story as generations 

2539
01:58:55,480 --> 01:58:57,920
forward, right? 
Like maybe we can have this 

2540
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:00,600
moment where a few women are 
left in charge at the end of the

2541
01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:03,000
book. 
But what we want to see, and I 

2542
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:05,480
know what George wants to write,
is how that plays. 

2543
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:07,840
Yeah, He wants to keep going, 
yeah, Yeah. 

2544
01:59:08,920 --> 01:59:12,840
So let's take a quick look at 
this new house then of car hold 

2545
01:59:12,840 --> 01:59:16,560
their their new sigil or new 
arrangement etcetera quote. 

2546
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:20,680
Like so much else, heraldry 
ended at the Wall. 

2547
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:24,960
The Thenes had no family arms, 
as was customary amongst the 

2548
01:59:24,960 --> 01:59:29,080
nobles of the Seven Kingdoms, so
John told the stewards to 

2549
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:32,160
improvise. 
He thought they had done well. 

2550
01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:35,360
The bride's cloak, Sigourne 
fastened about. 

2551
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:40,080
Lady Alice's shoulders showed a 
bronze disk on a field of white 

2552
01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:44,840
wool, surrounded by flames made 
with wisps of Crimson silk. 

2553
01:59:45,360 --> 01:59:49,360
The echo of the Karstark 
sunburst was there for those who

2554
01:59:49,360 --> 01:59:54,480
cared to look but difference to 
make the arms appropriate for 

2555
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:57,040
house, then. 
Yeah, all right. 

2556
01:59:57,040 --> 02:00:00,920
It's funny though, our our, you 
know, Google Sheets doesn't 

2557
02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:03,320
recognize the word differenced 
as a valid word. 

2558
02:00:03,680 --> 02:00:05,480
George used the word different. 
Didn't either. 

2559
02:00:05,480 --> 02:00:09,000
At first I was like surely it 
doesn't differentiate it is what

2560
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:10,680
I thought they meant to say. 
There's no difference. 

2561
02:00:10,680 --> 02:00:12,880
I was like no. 
I see why George doesn't use 

2562
02:00:13,080 --> 02:00:16,280
Word or Google Docs. 
He uses something St. 

2563
02:00:16,280 --> 02:00:17,760
Writer or WordPress I think it 
is. 

2564
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:18,080
Word. 
Yeah. 

2565
02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:19,240
Not something that doesn't tell 
him. 

2566
02:00:19,240 --> 02:00:20,360
We're perfect. 
We're perfect. 

2567
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:24,280
Yeah, Old school word perfect. 
You know, I wonder, by the way, 

2568
02:00:24,280 --> 02:00:29,760
if those flames were influenced 
by or meant to influence Stanis 

2569
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:31,840
Sandra Melisandre? 
Probably, yeah. 

2570
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:34,480
The the marriage was done like 
she was the one who officiated 

2571
02:00:34,480 --> 02:00:36,760
the wedding, you know, and and 
yeah, the Queen's men are there 

2572
02:00:36,760 --> 02:00:38,240
and yeah, it's a marriage. 
Yeah. 

2573
02:00:38,680 --> 02:00:40,800
Yeah, I I agree. 
I think that's part of it. 

2574
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:42,200
Yeah. 
So it's a it's interesting 

2575
02:00:42,200 --> 02:00:44,920
because car, hold the car. 
Starks, that's a cadet branch. 

2576
02:00:44,920 --> 02:00:48,200
This is now a cadet branch of a 
cadet branch, although right now

2577
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:50,320
it has no lands, so if it never 
gets lands, it won't. 

2578
02:00:50,320 --> 02:00:52,200
It won't survive, it won't last 
into the future. 

2579
02:00:52,240 --> 02:00:55,680
But as we've shown, there 
wouldn't take much for Alice to 

2580
02:00:55,680 --> 02:00:59,440
inherit car hold because 
Harrians life is very much in 

2581
02:00:59,440 --> 02:01:03,560
peril. 
And even without his own kin 

2582
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:06,040
trying to get him killed to 
steal car hold, he's still in a 

2583
02:01:06,040 --> 02:01:09,040
lot of danger. 
So, and that danger seems to 

2584
02:01:09,040 --> 02:01:12,000
have passed, as we'll explain in
terms of his own family trying 

2585
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:14,040
to get him killed, since it's 
clear that Alice doesn't. 

2586
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:15,600
Although who knows about 
Sigourin? 

2587
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:17,880
I don't know what like this guy 
seems like he might be decent 

2588
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:20,760
despite being the son of the the
former Magnar Fencedeer who was 

2589
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:22,880
not decent. 
But we really don't know like 

2590
02:01:22,880 --> 02:01:24,080
this guy. 
We know very little about him. 

2591
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:27,000
Do we know how old he is? 
Even he's a teenager. 

2592
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:30,560
No, he's he's losing his hair. 
So he's you can lose your hair 

2593
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:33,440
young, but that kind of implies 
he's a little older than that, 

2594
02:01:33,440 --> 02:01:34,840
maybe maybe 20. 
He's late 20s. 

2595
02:01:34,840 --> 02:01:36,120
Like, yeah, his hair is 
receding. 

2596
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:37,920
He's got a receding hairline. 
That's one of the only 

2597
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,240
descriptions we have of him. 
He's a big guy, you know. 

2598
02:01:41,240 --> 02:01:43,360
I don't think he might not have 
a beard yet, though. 

2599
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:46,800
I think, yeah. 
I think he's youngish but not. 

2600
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:48,840
But not young, young, not like 
John's young. 

2601
02:01:49,000 --> 02:01:52,680
You know, not as young as Alice,
who's 15 or 16 in that scene. 

2602
02:01:52,840 --> 02:01:57,600
So the current Karstarks, I 
don't know the way they keep the

2603
02:01:57,640 --> 02:01:59,720
if they keep behaving the way 
they have been, it might just 

2604
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:02,320
give, it might give the house a 
bad name, you know, for a while.

2605
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:06,360
Maybe it's something they can 
live, you know, get past or you 

2606
02:02:06,360 --> 02:02:10,560
know, rise above eventually. 
But yeah, like kinslang. 

2607
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:13,240
Trying to kinslay, maybe not 
successful kinslang. 

2608
02:02:13,240 --> 02:02:15,480
And then what Lord Rick Hart did
was treasonous. 

2609
02:02:15,480 --> 02:02:18,640
A lot of people see that 
negatively, but after him 

2610
02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:21,960
there's there's Arnold and 
Kragen who we'll we'll talk 

2611
02:02:21,960 --> 02:02:24,480
about here. 
They're they're a big part of 

2612
02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:26,760
this last bit. 
They don't do much to make up 

2613
02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:28,720
for Ricard. 
No, they they're worse. 

2614
02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:31,400
They're worse than him. 
I'd say at least Ricard was 

2615
02:02:31,400 --> 02:02:34,320
loyal for a while and was a good
soldier and fought beside Rob, 

2616
02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:36,600
you know, he like, had good 
ideas for a while. 

2617
02:02:36,600 --> 02:02:37,760
He was good till he wasn't 
right. 

2618
02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:41,120
These guys were never good. 
And when he wasn't, it was like 

2619
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:43,960
under awful, terrible 
circumstances. 

2620
02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:45,080
Yeah. 
Bereaved. 

2621
02:02:45,080 --> 02:02:46,920
Yeah. 
His grief was that was real, 

2622
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:48,680
right? 
Like you can you wouldn't do the

2623
02:02:48,680 --> 02:02:51,880
things he did but you would get 
you get why he's just so bereft 

2624
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:53,360
and. 
He wasn't doing the things he 

2625
02:02:53,360 --> 02:02:57,240
did out of some sort of greed 
or, you know, manipulation or 

2626
02:02:57,240 --> 02:02:58,720
something. 
He was just emotionally 

2627
02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:01,880
distraught and driven insane 
with vengeance, yes. 

2628
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:04,560
A very different look than what 
Arnulf and Craig and who are 

2629
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:07,360
driven by ambition and greed and
as far as we can tell, that's 

2630
02:03:07,360 --> 02:03:10,240
all. 
So they're definitely, with 

2631
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:11,680
these guys coming to the 
forefront. 

2632
02:03:11,680 --> 02:03:13,800
It's it's a, it's a quite a bad 
look now. 

2633
02:03:13,800 --> 02:03:18,320
So Craigen shows up at the wall 
wanting to marry Alice, but it's

2634
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:20,640
too late. 
Alice has already married 

2635
02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:24,440
Sigourn because she's told John 
what's happening. 

2636
02:03:24,440 --> 02:03:26,320
He's like, we got to get this. 
Well, I know what to do. 

2637
02:03:26,320 --> 02:03:28,080
Let's get you married and then 
it'll be too late. 

2638
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:33,280
And he's smart. 
He meets Craigen down on the 

2639
02:03:33,280 --> 02:03:35,200
road, so he can't ask for guest,
right. 

2640
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:38,080
He's like, I'm going to I'm 
going to go walk a mile down the

2641
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:41,920
road and and get you as you're 
coming up rather than let you 

2642
02:03:41,920 --> 02:03:44,640
arrive and and ask guess right 
Would be hard to say no to that.

2643
02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:46,240
So it was pretty smooth move by 
John. 

2644
02:03:46,520 --> 02:03:49,320
But before that other people are
trying to marry Alice. 

2645
02:03:49,320 --> 02:03:50,600
They're like Alice Karstark. 
Huh. 

2646
02:03:50,920 --> 02:03:54,280
Karstark you say, you know other
people sniffing around like how 

2647
02:03:54,280 --> 02:03:55,960
far down the line of succession 
is she? 

2648
02:03:55,960 --> 02:04:00,520
Oh, really? 
Only an imprisoned brother ahead

2649
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:02,400
of him in the line of succession
you say? 

2650
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:07,800
Or her, rather and interesting. 
So like even Sir Patrick of 

2651
02:04:07,800 --> 02:04:12,240
King's Mountain, the guy that 
tries to kill 11 to get Val, 

2652
02:04:12,840 --> 02:04:16,160
that doesn't go well. 
He tries to marry Alice. 

2653
02:04:16,160 --> 02:04:17,920
He's like, I lost my lands in 
the South. 

2654
02:04:17,920 --> 02:04:19,840
I lost King's Mountain, 
presumably. 

2655
02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:22,760
And which by the way, I think I 
pointed this out a few times. 

2656
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:26,360
Shay and I passed King's 
Mountain many times. 

2657
02:04:26,360 --> 02:04:28,440
Driving you drive north on, I 
think it's I-85. 

2658
02:04:28,440 --> 02:04:31,480
You pass King's Mountain from, I
think it's in North Carolina 

2659
02:04:31,480 --> 02:04:33,360
anyway. 
And this and George didn't name 

2660
02:04:33,360 --> 02:04:36,880
it off this person because Sir 
Patrick is like a real person, a

2661
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:41,240
friend of his, that he lost a 
bet with or won a bet with. 

2662
02:04:41,240 --> 02:04:43,320
I forget what it was. 
I think he won the bet. 

2663
02:04:43,320 --> 02:04:45,680
And that's why Patrick is in 
the, in the book getting killed.

2664
02:04:45,680 --> 02:04:47,240
Yeah. 
John and Alice get along really 

2665
02:04:47,240 --> 02:04:50,960
well, which is it's partly 
because of the Aria vibes. 

2666
02:04:50,960 --> 02:04:52,080
Like that's part of why they get
along. 

2667
02:04:52,080 --> 02:04:54,440
He wants to get along with her. 
He likes her right away and she 

2668
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:56,160
likes him right away. 
And you know, under other 

2669
02:04:56,160 --> 02:04:58,920
circumstances, maybe they could 
have gotten married, but 

2670
02:04:58,920 --> 02:05:01,760
obviously that's not a a 
possibility for the Lord 

2671
02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:05,280
Commander of the Nights Watch. 
And she's got 200 thins now, 

2672
02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:07,120
'cause that's what Sigourn had 
with him. 

2673
02:05:07,120 --> 02:05:11,600
So she's got a little small army
now, so she's no longer, you 

2674
02:05:11,600 --> 02:05:14,600
know, threatened by 6 car 
Starks. 

2675
02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:15,880
They're going to come try and 
kidnap her. 

2676
02:05:15,880 --> 02:05:20,000
That won't happen. 
She's there when he gets the 1st

2677
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:22,920
letter from Cotter Pike, the 
letter that says I'm going to 

2678
02:05:22,920 --> 02:05:28,440
Hardhome, but not the letter 
that comes describing how awful 

2679
02:05:28,440 --> 02:05:33,160
it is and the big fallout of 
John getting stabbed and all 

2680
02:05:33,160 --> 02:05:34,280
that. 
She's gone by then. 

2681
02:05:34,280 --> 02:05:37,600
It's it's almost too bad she's 
gone by then and almost, and 

2682
02:05:37,600 --> 02:05:40,840
also a good thing, 'cause we do 
not need any more people there 

2683
02:05:40,840 --> 02:05:43,720
to throw off the confusion of 
what's everybody going to do. 

2684
02:05:43,720 --> 02:05:45,880
Like a whole nother group of 
people with 200 pens. 

2685
02:05:45,880 --> 02:05:48,800
Like a whole nother, you know, 
factor. 

2686
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:51,920
Tendency of Yeah, who might? 
Have, but they would have 

2687
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:54,640
probably been on John's side, so
maybe that would have been good 

2688
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:58,880
for him. 
So yeah, anyway, and she thinks 

2689
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:00,360
that they're going to open the 
gates to her. 

2690
02:06:00,360 --> 02:06:01,840
She's like, I'm going to car 
hold. 

2691
02:06:02,440 --> 02:06:05,320
I think they'll open the gates 
to me, 'cause I'm the lady of 

2692
02:06:05,320 --> 02:06:07,800
car hold. 
They might not like these sends 

2693
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:09,880
with me. 
I might have to prove that I'm 

2694
02:06:09,880 --> 02:06:12,480
not being forced into this. 
But this is my husband, you 

2695
02:06:12,480 --> 02:06:15,480
know, all this stuff. 
And yeah, Craig and himself 

2696
02:06:15,480 --> 02:06:17,120
doesn't think so. 
He's like, they won't. 

2697
02:06:17,360 --> 02:06:19,680
They'll cut his head off and 
send it, you know, and turn it 

2698
02:06:19,680 --> 02:06:21,040
into a drinking cup or 
something. 

2699
02:06:21,320 --> 02:06:26,240
And this brings us to this next 
part, which is Kragen, who was 

2700
02:06:26,240 --> 02:06:29,200
chasing after her. 
It's also going to come down to 

2701
02:06:29,240 --> 02:06:31,800
the people inside Carhold who 
they side with, whether they're 

2702
02:06:31,800 --> 02:06:34,400
like, yeah, we'll side with 
Alice or yeah, we'll side with 

2703
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:36,480
Kragen. 
Kragen says no, they'll kill. 

2704
02:06:36,480 --> 02:06:38,920
He'll cut his head off and kick 
him out, like with his 200 

2705
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:40,400
soldiers with him. 
You think they're going to do 

2706
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:41,880
that? 
Like, do you have that many 

2707
02:06:41,880 --> 02:06:44,320
warriors that still at Carhold 
after all this time? 

2708
02:06:44,320 --> 02:06:46,520
I don't think so. 
That might be a good instinct 

2709
02:06:46,520 --> 02:06:49,720
that Kragen has, but it might 
not come to fruition when 

2710
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:53,680
there's 200 men there to guard 
him, and he might not be 

2711
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:55,840
analyzing the makeup of who's 
there. 

2712
02:06:55,840 --> 02:07:00,120
I I don't know either. 
But ostensibly, all the young, 

2713
02:07:00,120 --> 02:07:04,880
strong, loyal soldiers went off 
to war, and so the ones behind 

2714
02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:07,800
are probably a lot of women who 
are maybe more likely to side 

2715
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:10,040
with Alice, right? 
Maybe, yeah. 

2716
02:07:10,400 --> 02:07:16,440
Maybe even more the more, you 
know, senior, educated, wise men

2717
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:20,560
that are still there might not 
want war or battle or be able to

2718
02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:22,800
conduct it with these young thin
warriors you know. 

2719
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:25,480
But some of them don't want 
would would just die before 

2720
02:07:25,480 --> 02:07:27,560
letting free folk into their 
castle. 

2721
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:29,200
Some of them. 
Would have these prejudices 

2722
02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:31,600
against the wildlings. 
Yeah, so yeah, it is tricky 

2723
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:34,160
conflict. 
But but Nina points out that 

2724
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:38,080
clearly someone helped her. 
She didn't saddle that horse and

2725
02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:40,760
get away by herself. 
If everyone was on Kragen's side

2726
02:07:40,760 --> 02:07:43,240
or everyone, you know, she 
definitely has allies in car, 

2727
02:07:43,240 --> 02:07:44,520
like some people are on her 
side. 

2728
02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:46,640
We we don't know who, but 
definitely someone. 

2729
02:07:46,840 --> 02:07:49,360
So yeah, she was the when 
Melisandre sees that vision of 

2730
02:07:49,360 --> 02:07:52,440
her on a dying horse fleeing, 
it's from Kragen. 

2731
02:07:52,720 --> 02:07:56,120
Now he according to her, he was 
going to marry her and then kill

2732
02:07:56,120 --> 02:07:58,360
her after getting kids off of 
her because that's kind of what 

2733
02:07:58,360 --> 02:07:59,920
he already did to his first two 
wives. 

2734
02:08:00,720 --> 02:08:03,520
And he's over 50, so he's been 
around. 

2735
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:05,400
She's having plenty of time to 
learn his personality. 

2736
02:08:05,400 --> 02:08:08,600
She's only 15, but she's 
obviously known him and it looks

2737
02:08:08,600 --> 02:08:11,400
like he has three sons of his 
own, but we don't see them. 

2738
02:08:12,120 --> 02:08:15,920
I'm not sure what the deal is 
because we find out Arnulf, his 

2739
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:19,560
father, has six grandsons and 
Craig and has a brother, Arthor,

2740
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:22,000
and there's three sons with 
Arthor. 

2741
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:24,560
We assume those are Arthors. 
So anyway, it's not important, 

2742
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:29,080
but there's there are more 
Karstarks and Nina points out 

2743
02:08:29,080 --> 02:08:36,120
how the vibes of Craigen's 
arrival trying to kidnap Alice 

2744
02:08:36,120 --> 02:08:38,480
is is a little bit like Rhaegar 
Liana. 

2745
02:08:38,480 --> 02:08:41,200
You know, fleeing alone on 
horseback to escape an unwanted 

2746
02:08:41,200 --> 02:08:44,960
marriage to go to the person 
that she wants to marry instead.

2747
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:48,160
Of course, it's John who finds 
her husband, rather than the 

2748
02:08:48,160 --> 02:08:49,600
actual person that's going to 
marry her. 

2749
02:08:50,120 --> 02:08:53,240
But John is the son of Rhaegar, 
so that's what that vibe is 

2750
02:08:53,240 --> 02:08:56,960
really there. 
And Alice looks like Arya, who 

2751
02:08:56,960 --> 02:09:00,360
looks like Liana. 
So yeah, the vibes are very 

2752
02:09:00,360 --> 02:09:01,800
strong here. 
It's really good. 

2753
02:09:02,200 --> 02:09:08,520
And just like Alice's furious 
uncle comes to demand her back, 

2754
02:09:08,520 --> 02:09:12,280
just like Brandon furiously 
demanded Rhaegar come out and 

2755
02:09:12,280 --> 02:09:13,160
die. 
Give me back. 

2756
02:09:13,160 --> 02:09:16,240
You know my sister? 
Yeah, very similar that. 

2757
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:19,920
You know, sometimes these 
things, just it's happenstance 

2758
02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:23,960
and it works out that way. 
But if George did design this 

2759
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:26,040
all, you know, he'd be like, 
yeah, that was good. 

2760
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:29,800
He sat back and, you know, like 
had a sip of his drink. 

2761
02:09:29,800 --> 02:09:34,040
Like I wrote a good one there. 
He can be proud of himself. 

2762
02:09:34,360 --> 02:09:37,200
So John just locks Kragen in an 
ice cell, throws him in an ice 

2763
02:09:37,200 --> 02:09:42,480
cell and he's stubbornness, 
seems to run in the family, 

2764
02:09:42,480 --> 02:09:45,520
'cause this guy is like, Nope, 
he refuses to do anything. 

2765
02:09:45,520 --> 02:09:48,040
Like they they try to move him 
from 1 cell to another and he's 

2766
02:09:48,040 --> 02:09:51,160
like trying to bite people and 
and it doesn't go very well 

2767
02:09:51,160 --> 02:09:54,960
because it's like young strong 
men and he's a 50 year old man 

2768
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:57,840
that's been in a cold cell all 
this time not eating, you know, 

2769
02:09:58,440 --> 02:10:00,240
but he throws like frozen poop 
at them. 

2770
02:10:00,240 --> 02:10:06,600
Like he's so like it's so 
pathetic, you know like like 

2771
02:10:06,600 --> 02:10:07,880
what are you going to? 
It's sourceful. 

2772
02:10:07,920 --> 02:10:09,760
Yeah, it's sourceful. 
It's frozen. 

2773
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:11,920
That's like that's hard. 
And you know I got to hurt 

2774
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:13,120
somebody with that. 
No, not really. 

2775
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:15,800
He just grossed them out. 
But with John getting stabbed 

2776
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:20,240
and people looking for allies, 
maybe someone lets him out to to

2777
02:10:20,320 --> 02:10:22,720
put him on their side. 
Like we need allies against the 

2778
02:10:22,920 --> 02:10:25,400
the free folk that are attacking
us 'cause what we did to John. 

2779
02:10:25,400 --> 02:10:29,080
You know maybe the maybe Bowen 
Marsh lets him out and says hey 

2780
02:10:29,080 --> 02:10:31,360
help us. 
You know maybe some of the 

2781
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:33,640
Queen's men let him out and say 
hey you want to join with us. 

2782
02:10:33,640 --> 02:10:35,720
We'll help you do. 
We'll help you do your thing if 

2783
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:37,320
you help us do our thing. 
You know I don't I don't know. 

2784
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:38,640
But there's there's ways he can 
get out. 

2785
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:42,360
Like his fate might not just be 
freeze to death in an ice cell 

2786
02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:43,480
because everybody forgot about 
him. 

2787
02:10:44,120 --> 02:10:47,600
Though that is possible. 
We could get a Craig in white. 

2788
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:48,920
Yes. 
We could get him that way. 

2789
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:51,360
Yes. 
So I don't know. 

2790
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:56,480
Yeah he he's hard to say but but
his father, it's a lot easier to

2791
02:10:56,480 --> 02:11:00,320
say what's going to happen to 
his father because his father is

2792
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:03,680
in a pickle and very, very 
unlikely to get out of it. 

2793
02:11:04,520 --> 02:11:07,400
So he he's the last character 
we'll discuss. 

2794
02:11:07,560 --> 02:11:12,040
This is also kind of the echo. 
The succession battle over 

2795
02:11:12,040 --> 02:11:15,200
Carhold is kind of like the 
succession battle over 

2796
02:11:15,200 --> 02:11:17,880
Winterfell. 
There's no actual Arnold 

2797
02:11:17,880 --> 02:11:20,520
equivalent among the Starks. 
There's no one that's just this 

2798
02:11:21,440 --> 02:11:24,000
dirty, this evil. 
But they're I guess the 

2799
02:11:24,000 --> 02:11:26,600
equivalent of trying to claim 
Winterfell on on this from this 

2800
02:11:26,600 --> 02:11:28,520
character is the Boltons. 
So you know, there, there's no 

2801
02:11:28,520 --> 02:11:31,680
uncle, there's just neighbors 
that are that are that evil. 

2802
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:35,040
Arnold was left behind as the 
castellin by Ricard. 

2803
02:11:35,880 --> 02:11:40,280
We don't know if he was already 
the Castellin prior to Ricard 

2804
02:11:40,280 --> 02:11:42,480
going South. 
Good chance he was, but it may 

2805
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:44,840
have been a new thing given 
Ricard was going South. 

2806
02:11:44,880 --> 02:11:46,880
Like, I need someone to be 
Castellin while I'm gone. 

2807
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:49,760
Go ahead. 
Arnold in his 60s, he's walked 

2808
02:11:49,760 --> 02:11:51,760
with a cane. 
He's definitely not capable of 

2809
02:11:51,760 --> 02:11:54,720
going to war, but he's certainly
capable of plotting an intrigue.

2810
02:11:54,920 --> 02:11:58,360
Alice tells him, tells John 
about why he declared for 

2811
02:11:58,360 --> 02:12:01,200
Stannis, which is just as ironic
as Rob. 

2812
02:12:01,360 --> 02:12:04,040
I got a warn Bolton about the 
Karstark man. 

2813
02:12:05,200 --> 02:12:07,920
No, you need to warn yourself, 
the same thing happens here, 

2814
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:10,160
Stannis asked. 
John, is Arnold Karstark the 

2815
02:12:10,200 --> 02:12:13,480
only man of honor in the North 
'cause? 

2816
02:12:13,480 --> 02:12:15,800
He's the only one that declares 
for Stannis, and he's like, 

2817
02:12:16,080 --> 02:12:19,240
actually, he might be the least 
honorable man. 

2818
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:23,160
And for a while, Stannis is 
like, all right, well, you won't

2819
02:12:23,160 --> 02:12:27,040
accept Winterfell from me, John.
The closest thing we have is 

2820
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:29,000
this guy Arnulf Karst, the 
closest thing we have to a 

2821
02:12:29,000 --> 02:12:30,080
Stark. 
I'm going to give it to him. 

2822
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:31,560
Yikes. 
No, that's not that wouldn't be 

2823
02:12:31,560 --> 02:12:33,360
good. 
No longer is that a thing that 

2824
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:35,400
will happen. 
So no worries there. 

2825
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:37,480
Let's, let's talk about why. 
So yeah. 

2826
02:12:37,480 --> 02:12:40,400
As to repeat what we said before
to remind ourselves he joins 

2827
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:43,600
Stannis because he wanted to get
the Lannisters to execute Harry 

2828
02:12:43,600 --> 02:12:46,560
and making him Lord a car hold. 
If he could follow through on 

2829
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:49,800
all this, he would have been 
Lord of Winterfell and car hold.

2830
02:12:50,080 --> 02:12:53,680
Maybe just giving car hold to 
his son Kragen through Alice or 

2831
02:12:53,680 --> 02:12:55,640
whatever. 
Flying too close to the sun. 

2832
02:12:56,240 --> 02:12:57,440
Good one. 
Yes, indeed. 

2833
02:12:57,440 --> 02:12:59,160
Aren't all flying too close to 
the sun. 

2834
02:12:59,160 --> 02:13:01,600
That's a good point. 
The Karstark white sun. 

2835
02:13:01,600 --> 02:13:02,960
Yes. 
Yeah, I guess that's what you 

2836
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:05,920
were trying to say. 
I I'm a little slow on that one.

2837
02:13:06,280 --> 02:13:09,160
All right, So on top of that, he
was conspiring with the Bolton. 

2838
02:13:09,160 --> 02:13:12,880
So, like the A Dance with 
Dragons Theon's first chapter, 

2839
02:13:13,160 --> 02:13:16,200
when Theon gets LED out of 
prison and paraded in front of 

2840
02:13:16,200 --> 02:13:21,920
these Lords, it's Hoth or Umber 
and Arnolf Karstark. 

2841
02:13:22,240 --> 02:13:24,760
And here's something I didn't 
catch before. 

2842
02:13:25,080 --> 02:13:27,600
Arnolf doesn't recognize Theon 
at first. 

2843
02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:28,720
He's like, who the heck is this 
guy? 

2844
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:31,520
And Umber's like, stares at him 
for me. 

2845
02:13:31,520 --> 02:13:35,440
He's like, oh, it's him look 
again and he's like, oh, the 

2846
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:37,840
Ward's always smiling. 
He recognizes him because of 

2847
02:13:38,160 --> 02:13:41,200
Theon's cocky smiles that he was
known for. 

2848
02:13:41,600 --> 02:13:45,560
And Theon, meanwhile, thinks 
Arnolf looks like a vulture, 

2849
02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:50,240
which is appropriate for how he 
behaves here, circling over the,

2850
02:13:50,400 --> 02:13:52,720
you know, the corpses of his 
family members and trying to 

2851
02:13:52,720 --> 02:13:55,360
claim what's theirs. 
You know, so he looks again, 

2852
02:13:55,360 --> 02:13:58,800
recognizes him, and then in 
Theon's Wins the Winter chapter,

2853
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:02,320
we see Stannis turned the tables
on him. 

2854
02:14:02,320 --> 02:14:04,160
So, slight spoilers here, by the
way. 

2855
02:14:04,160 --> 02:14:06,680
Warning, Theon's the Wins the 
Winter chapter is going to get a

2856
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:09,560
little bit of discussion here, 
so he learns. 

2857
02:14:09,560 --> 02:14:11,840
Stannis learns of the betrayal 
of Arnolf. 

2858
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:16,800
That's coming thanks to John 
sending a message. 

2859
02:14:16,960 --> 02:14:20,600
He's like because Alice tells 
him and he he warns Stannis and 

2860
02:14:20,600 --> 02:14:22,040
the way he warns him is the 
banker. 

2861
02:14:22,040 --> 02:14:24,680
The banker's like, hey, I got to
find Stannis to give him loans 

2862
02:14:24,680 --> 02:14:27,160
and get all this stuff settled. 
He's like, well, here's where 

2863
02:14:27,160 --> 02:14:29,120
Stannis is and give him this 
message. 

2864
02:14:29,120 --> 02:14:32,040
While you're at it, tell him 
about Karstark. 

2865
02:14:32,520 --> 02:14:34,080
He's like, all right, sure, I'll
tell him about that. 

2866
02:14:34,240 --> 02:14:38,920
And he does. 
And this is because of that he 

2867
02:14:38,920 --> 02:14:41,840
turns the tables on Karstark. 
Arnolf is expecting to lead 

2868
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:43,880
Stannis into a trap. 
In fact, he tries to lead 

2869
02:14:43,880 --> 02:14:46,560
Stannis into several traps, none
of which work. 

2870
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:50,520
John foils two of them. 
If if Karstark only knew that 

2871
02:14:50,520 --> 02:14:53,200
John has foiled 2 of Karstark's 
plots. 

2872
02:14:53,720 --> 02:14:56,160
He says OK, so remember, Stannis
is going to attack the Dread for

2873
02:14:56,160 --> 02:14:58,520
he's like Arnold. 
Karstark tells me that there's 

2874
02:14:58,520 --> 02:15:00,360
only like 50 men at the Dread 
Fork. 

2875
02:15:00,360 --> 02:15:03,800
We could take it, and he's like,
you shouldn't do that and I'll 

2876
02:15:03,800 --> 02:15:05,520
do that. 
He doesn't suspect the trap. 

2877
02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:07,720
He's just like, it's not a good 
strategic play. 

2878
02:15:07,920 --> 02:15:09,800
It's probably going to be harder
to take than you think. 

2879
02:15:09,800 --> 02:15:12,640
The Dread fork's really strong. 
Those fifty men will give you a 

2880
02:15:12,640 --> 02:15:14,480
lot of trouble. 
And what if there's a little 

2881
02:15:14,480 --> 02:15:16,200
more than that? 
What if it's not 50, blah blah 

2882
02:15:16,200 --> 02:15:18,640
blah. 
Anyway, so he talks him out of 

2883
02:15:18,640 --> 02:15:21,040
that plan, and then he tells him
about Arnold betrayal. 

2884
02:15:21,040 --> 02:15:23,840
It allows him to turn the table.
So Arnoff is planning on 

2885
02:15:23,840 --> 02:15:26,200
betraying Stannis has no idea 
he's been alerted. 

2886
02:15:26,400 --> 02:15:29,840
And then Arnold walks into the 
Hut where Stannis is holding 

2887
02:15:29,840 --> 02:15:32,640
court. 
And at first, he's like, who's 

2888
02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:34,600
that? 
And then he realizes who it is, 

2889
02:15:34,600 --> 02:15:36,800
just like he didn't realize who 
it was at first. 

2890
02:15:36,800 --> 02:15:38,680
When he sees him at the 
beginning of A Dance of Dragons,

2891
02:15:38,840 --> 02:15:41,000
the beginning of The Winds of 
Winter, it's going to be the 

2892
02:15:41,000 --> 02:15:42,360
same thing. 
He's like, oh, who's that? 

2893
02:15:42,360 --> 02:15:44,760
Then he realizes who it is, and 
his face goes pale. 

2894
02:15:45,240 --> 02:15:48,160
And he also realizes that 
there's no chairs. 

2895
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:50,480
It kind of all happens at the 
same time, like, he's a man with

2896
02:15:50,480 --> 02:15:51,880
a cane. 
Stannis would have given him a 

2897
02:15:51,880 --> 02:15:56,080
chair, except for he's getting 
ready to kill him. 

2898
02:15:57,640 --> 02:15:59,680
So, But prior to this, Stannis 
thinks ahead. 

2899
02:15:59,680 --> 02:16:02,720
He's like, OK, they got 400 men,
which is it might be more than 

2900
02:16:02,720 --> 02:16:04,200
you might have expected the car 
starts to have. 

2901
02:16:04,200 --> 02:16:05,280
At this point, it's actually 
more than that. 

2902
02:16:05,280 --> 02:16:07,680
It's 400 infantry plus some 
Bowman and some horsemen. 

2903
02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:13,120
Stannis says, OK, before they 
wake up, surround them and, you 

2904
02:16:13,120 --> 02:16:16,280
know, take, you know, box them 
into their huts and all that and

2905
02:16:16,280 --> 02:16:18,640
keep them in, keep them in hand.
Don't let them get armed and all

2906
02:16:18,640 --> 02:16:20,120
that. 
And they do that. 

2907
02:16:20,120 --> 02:16:21,960
A couple of them resist. 
A few of them die, but mostly 

2908
02:16:21,960 --> 02:16:24,120
they're just confused. 
They're like, what happened? 

2909
02:16:24,320 --> 02:16:26,880
So Stannis hopes to bring them 
over on his side. 

2910
02:16:26,880 --> 02:16:28,760
That's 400 men. 
We could really use those, You 

2911
02:16:28,760 --> 02:16:30,800
know, there's their car hold men
and we'll tell them what 

2912
02:16:30,800 --> 02:16:32,840
happened. 
You know, he's a little, there's

2913
02:16:32,840 --> 02:16:35,639
a little concerned that, well, 
aren't they in on the plan to 

2914
02:16:35,639 --> 02:16:37,400
betray you and say this is like,
probably not. 

2915
02:16:37,400 --> 02:16:38,639
Why would he, why would he tell 
them? 

2916
02:16:38,840 --> 02:16:41,600
And here's here's the response. 
It's a great line quote. 

2917
02:16:41,879 --> 02:16:44,719
Karl Stark could never have 
hoped to keep his treachery a 

2918
02:16:44,719 --> 02:16:46,959
secret. 
If he shared his plans with 

2919
02:16:46,959 --> 02:16:52,200
every baseboard man Jack in his 
service, some drunken Spearman 

2920
02:16:52,200 --> 02:16:55,400
would have let it slip one night
whilst laying with a whore. 

2921
02:16:55,719 --> 02:16:58,959
They did not need to know they 
are car hold men. 

2922
02:16:59,400 --> 02:17:02,799
When the moment came, they would
have obeyed their Lords as they 

2923
02:17:02,799 --> 02:17:04,520
had done all their lives. 
Yeah. 

2924
02:17:04,600 --> 02:17:06,360
That's just the the Stannis cuts
to the chase. 

2925
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:08,879
They will obey the orders 
they're given, even if the 

2926
02:17:08,879 --> 02:17:11,440
orders are like really we're 
betraying that's they follow 

2927
02:17:11,440 --> 02:17:11,959
orders. 
Yeah. 

2928
02:17:12,080 --> 02:17:13,360
So they didn't need to know in 
advance. 

2929
02:17:13,520 --> 02:17:14,920
It's it's. 
I completely agree. 

2930
02:17:14,920 --> 02:17:18,080
And this is another perfect 
example of something I I've been

2931
02:17:18,080 --> 02:17:20,520
frank, UN quote I give all the 
time is 3 people can keep a 

2932
02:17:20,520 --> 02:17:23,680
secret if two of them are dead. 
Yes, that quote, but that's the 

2933
02:17:23,719 --> 02:17:25,200
idea of it. 
Like he wouldn't have told the 

2934
02:17:25,200 --> 02:17:28,600
whole army, you know? 
And now here's Stannis probably 

2935
02:17:28,600 --> 02:17:30,120
not making a mistake. 
Rob dead. 

2936
02:17:30,400 --> 02:17:33,160
He has them all LED away. 
Well, first of all, two of the 

2937
02:17:33,160 --> 02:17:36,480
grandsons try to fight back. 
They're like he says okay, 

2938
02:17:36,480 --> 02:17:38,000
understand this. 
You are dead men. 

2939
02:17:38,040 --> 02:17:40,080
The only thing left to be 
determined is how. 

2940
02:17:41,240 --> 02:17:44,400
And he's like, basically he's 
saying if you don't cooperate, 

2941
02:17:44,400 --> 02:17:47,360
you're going to burn to death. 
If you do cooperate, you'll have

2942
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:49,200
it, You know, it'll be quick and
painless. 

2943
02:17:49,719 --> 02:17:52,040
Arnulf and Arthor never say a 
word. 

2944
02:17:52,040 --> 02:17:54,719
They just freeze and they're 
like, Yep, OK, then two of the 

2945
02:17:54,799 --> 02:17:57,799
two of the grandsons try to 
fight and it goes poorly for 

2946
02:17:57,799 --> 02:18:01,160
them, Although maybe not because
they might die easier this way. 

2947
02:18:01,680 --> 02:18:03,840
Yeah, it might be. 
They might not get. 

2948
02:18:03,879 --> 02:18:05,320
Poor, but not as poor as being 
burned. 

2949
02:18:05,320 --> 02:18:06,440
To death. 
But they might not get burned to

2950
02:18:06,440 --> 02:18:08,840
death, so we'll see. 
But anyway, so they're in prison

2951
02:18:08,840 --> 02:18:10,639
like Craig and there's no 
scheduled execution. 

2952
02:18:10,639 --> 02:18:12,360
And that brings I should have 
mentioned that at the time. 

2953
02:18:12,360 --> 02:18:15,120
Remember I said John didn't want
to execute Craig and cause of 

2954
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:17,879
how it would look it would look 
like he's killing northern Lords

2955
02:18:17,879 --> 02:18:20,480
to give it to free folk because 
it's Sigour. 

2956
02:18:20,480 --> 02:18:22,000
He had just married Sigour into 
Alice. 

2957
02:18:22,360 --> 02:18:23,680
So he's like I can't really do 
that. 

2958
02:18:23,680 --> 02:18:27,360
It looks it'll look really bad. 
I'm already he's already going 

2959
02:18:27,360 --> 02:18:29,440
too far as Lord Commander of the
Wall in some other ways. 

2960
02:18:29,440 --> 02:18:32,959
You know the optics are already 
kind of like sketchy so I don't 

2961
02:18:32,959 --> 02:18:35,559
want to you know this one guy we
can just keep locked up for now 

2962
02:18:35,559 --> 02:18:37,840
like he's it's not a big deal. 
So. 

2963
02:18:38,040 --> 02:18:42,400
So Santis has them all LED away 
and he doesn't have them killed 

2964
02:18:42,400 --> 02:18:44,120
right away. 
And I suspect that's because 

2965
02:18:44,120 --> 02:18:47,480
like unlike Rob, he wants to 
keep them alive to keep the 

2966
02:18:47,480 --> 02:18:49,920
soldiers loyal. 
Maybe he only needs one of them 

2967
02:18:49,920 --> 02:18:51,520
for that. 
Maybe he'll execute like four of

2968
02:18:51,520 --> 02:18:54,080
them and just keep one of them. 
But these car Starks making a 

2969
02:18:54,080 --> 02:18:58,879
habit going against their king 
getting executed, whether or or 

2970
02:18:58,879 --> 02:19:00,799
just Lord Commander, you know. 
I like to think that Stannis 

2971
02:19:00,799 --> 02:19:02,840
will take a page out of Robert's
book, right? 

2972
02:19:03,320 --> 02:19:04,799
Yeah. 
Forgive these people. 

2973
02:19:04,799 --> 02:19:07,879
Get them on your side, you know.
Maybe not Arnoff, but maybe some

2974
02:19:07,879 --> 02:19:10,120
of the others like Kill the 
Lord, but keep, keep, keep one 

2975
02:19:10,120 --> 02:19:12,160
of the grandsons, Maybe, you 
know, keep at least one of them 

2976
02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:13,799
alive. 
So these soldiers are going to 

2977
02:19:13,799 --> 02:19:16,840
be with Stannis at the Battle of
Ice yet again, a really 

2978
02:19:16,840 --> 02:19:19,320
difficult job for some Karstark 
soldiers. 

2979
02:19:19,320 --> 02:19:22,680
First they got to fight in the 
Battle of Green Fork and they're

2980
02:19:22,680 --> 02:19:24,000
going to fight in the Battle of 
Ice. 

2981
02:19:24,000 --> 02:19:26,280
They got to fight and there's 
all these other battles, tough 

2982
02:19:26,280 --> 02:19:27,680
job for them. 
Some of them are still in the 

2983
02:19:27,680 --> 02:19:30,160
South though some of them are 
probably with the Brother 

2984
02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:33,879
Without Banners, the Lady 
Stoneheart LED Brother Without 

2985
02:19:33,879 --> 02:19:36,920
Banners, which is the darker, 
eviler version of that group. 

2986
02:19:37,799 --> 02:19:40,480
Some of them are just random 
bandits here and there, Broken 

2987
02:19:40,480 --> 02:19:43,360
men still just operating in the 
South, just thinking about their

2988
02:19:43,559 --> 02:19:47,160
trying, how they're going to eat
their next meal and lost to any 

2989
02:19:47,160 --> 02:19:50,240
sense of honor or ethics. 
Nina also mentions Stannis's 

2990
02:19:50,240 --> 02:19:52,520
plans for the car Starks involve
their recent loyalty to the 

2991
02:19:52,520 --> 02:19:55,280
Bolton's. 
Ramsay obviously doesn't know 

2992
02:19:55,280 --> 02:19:59,400
Stannis is out of the car Starks
and the car Starks show up if if

2993
02:19:59,400 --> 02:20:02,960
the car Starks show up and say, 
hey, don't worry boss, we got 

2994
02:20:02,960 --> 02:20:06,760
Stannis, we killed him, and 
here's his sword to prove it. 

2995
02:20:06,880 --> 02:20:09,720
That might be the origin of Pink
Letter Ramsay claiming we 

2996
02:20:09,720 --> 02:20:12,920
already beat Stannis. 
I already got his sword because 

2997
02:20:12,920 --> 02:20:15,160
the car Starks are like, well 
this is Stannis is going to make

2998
02:20:15,160 --> 02:20:17,640
us do this or we die. 
He's got us. 

2999
02:20:17,680 --> 02:20:20,680
He's got us by the by the balls.
So we have to do what he says. 

3000
02:20:20,880 --> 02:20:22,160
Yeah. 
So I don't think he's it's not 

3001
02:20:22,160 --> 02:20:24,440
it's not only him just keeping 
them alive to keep the car 

3002
02:20:24,440 --> 02:20:26,400
stark, man. 
They're probably going to be 

3003
02:20:26,400 --> 02:20:29,960
useful for more subterfuge, 
which Stannis is quite good at 

3004
02:20:29,960 --> 02:20:32,480
and willing to use. 
And this would be a really good 

3005
02:20:32,480 --> 02:20:36,280
way to sneak to like, yeah, we 
won, here's maybe they're 

3006
02:20:36,280 --> 02:20:38,200
wearing like Bath, the Battle of
Ice. 

3007
02:20:38,200 --> 02:20:40,800
There might be a lot of frozen 
deaths, So they can just take 

3008
02:20:40,800 --> 02:20:43,000
their gear and wear it. 
You know, like, hey, we're 

3009
02:20:43,000 --> 02:20:44,960
phrase, we're on your side. 
You know, there's lots of ways 

3010
02:20:44,960 --> 02:20:46,680
for this to go. 
Lots of good theories about how 

3011
02:20:46,920 --> 02:20:49,400
this could play out into Stanish
tricking the Boltons. 

3012
02:20:49,640 --> 02:20:53,600
Kind of parallel to how Ramsay 
and Ruse have used Theon too. 

3013
02:20:53,760 --> 02:20:58,000
Yes, yes. 
And they don't know that Theon 

3014
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:00,680
is now in Stannis possession, 
which, if they knew that, they 

3015
02:21:00,680 --> 02:21:02,120
would definitely do things 
differently. 

3016
02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:05,440
Like, OK, so we can assume 
Theon's told them all these 

3017
02:21:05,440 --> 02:21:07,640
things. 
So we have to act differently 

3018
02:21:07,640 --> 02:21:10,200
now. 
And, you know, Yeah, so a 

3019
02:21:10,200 --> 02:21:12,200
surprise attack on Winterfell, 
some sort of surprise, some sort

3020
02:21:12,200 --> 02:21:14,800
of trick, it explains a lot. 
It would explain why the pink 

3021
02:21:14,800 --> 02:21:18,080
letter has some of those things 
that it says in them without 

3022
02:21:18,080 --> 02:21:19,600
them being wise. 
Like, obviously Ramsay could 

3023
02:21:19,600 --> 02:21:21,640
just be lying. 
That's also a possibility. 

3024
02:21:21,640 --> 02:21:25,440
And there's also the less less 
likely possibility in my mind 

3025
02:21:25,440 --> 02:21:26,600
that someone else wrote that 
letter. 

3026
02:21:27,240 --> 02:21:30,160
But that's also possible. 
But again, whatever. 

3027
02:21:30,160 --> 02:21:33,280
Even even after Stannis takes 
Winterfell, it brings us back to

3028
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:36,480
this Dang old problem. 
Even after the car Starks were 

3029
02:21:36,480 --> 02:21:39,920
settled, even after Winterfell 
settled, there's still the 

3030
02:21:39,920 --> 02:21:41,320
others. 
There's still winter. 

3031
02:21:41,320 --> 02:21:44,280
That's the north for you. 
You know, we're pretty sure the 

3032
02:21:44,280 --> 02:21:45,880
Wall is going to fall. 
We're pretty sure it's all going

3033
02:21:45,880 --> 02:21:48,440
to get a lot worse. 
The houses closest to the Wall 

3034
02:21:48,440 --> 02:21:52,000
are in the greatest peril. 
So I'm extremely curious how the

3035
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:56,560
situation with Alice and Sigourn
and his men and Harriet and all 

3036
02:21:56,560 --> 02:21:59,920
that's going to play out, 
because however that's settled, 

3037
02:21:59,920 --> 02:22:01,760
they're going to have to fight 
the others, like maybe those 

3038
02:22:01,760 --> 02:22:03,880
10s, those 200 tens. 
They could fight against 

3039
02:22:04,120 --> 02:22:06,880
Kragen's men or other car 
Starks, but they should be 

3040
02:22:06,880 --> 02:22:09,960
fighting the White Walkers, 
right? 

3041
02:22:09,960 --> 02:22:13,400
As OSHA said, they're marching 
the when Rob's army marched S 

3042
02:22:13,400 --> 02:22:15,080
he's like she says they're 
marching the wrong way. 

3043
02:22:15,080 --> 02:22:17,960
Well, there were 2300 car Starks
in that army marching the wrong 

3044
02:22:17,960 --> 02:22:19,720
way with Rob with a similar 
name. 

3045
02:22:19,720 --> 02:22:21,880
So they even if they survive 
these other ones, they have to 

3046
02:22:21,880 --> 02:22:26,720
survive the greatest foe of all.
And as an ominous footnote, John

3047
02:22:26,720 --> 02:22:29,720
says, hey, how's the food 
situation at Carhold? 

3048
02:22:29,920 --> 02:22:34,840
And Alice says not great, not 
great at all, because the 

3049
02:22:34,920 --> 02:22:37,760
soldiers marching S took a lot 
of supplies with them, and there

3050
02:22:37,760 --> 02:22:40,840
were too many of them for us to 
bring in the harvest. 

3051
02:22:40,840 --> 02:22:42,720
So not all the harvest got 
brought in. 

3052
02:22:42,960 --> 02:22:47,040
And we already talked earlier 
about how it's even though 

3053
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:50,000
they're near the coast, it's not
easy to bring food up because 

3054
02:22:50,240 --> 02:22:52,800
there's no port, there's no 
harbor, there's cliffs. 

3055
02:22:53,520 --> 02:22:57,560
Carhold is in great peril from 
Winter, if not from the White 

3056
02:22:57,560 --> 02:23:02,320
Walkers as well. 
But perhaps this is also a 

3057
02:23:02,320 --> 02:23:03,880
silver lining. 
Perhaps this is what will 

3058
02:23:03,880 --> 02:23:06,120
reunite Karstark and Stark. 
Right now, things aren't great 

3059
02:23:06,120 --> 02:23:09,840
between those two houses, but 
the greater foe might bring them

3060
02:23:09,840 --> 02:23:11,680
back together. 
John and Alice showed it can be 

3061
02:23:11,680 --> 02:23:12,960
done. 
It showed that you know, they 

3062
02:23:12,960 --> 02:23:14,760
can work together. 
They can get along really well 

3063
02:23:15,560 --> 02:23:20,400
and and do some good. 
He tells her to send If he says,

3064
02:23:20,400 --> 02:23:24,000
hey Alice, if your stores are 
running low and your men are 

3065
02:23:24,000 --> 02:23:26,880
starving, send them to us. 
We'll put them on the wall. 

3066
02:23:26,880 --> 02:23:28,160
You know, we'll put them to use 
here. 

3067
02:23:28,160 --> 02:23:30,760
You know, rather than the snow 
death March, you know that the 

3068
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:34,160
thing that Northerners do when 
there's no food, the men, the 

3069
02:23:34,160 --> 02:23:36,040
older men will just leave and 
say I'm going out hunting. 

3070
02:23:36,040 --> 02:23:38,680
And then with their intent being
to freeze themselves to death so

3071
02:23:38,680 --> 02:23:40,440
that they're no longer a a mouth
to feed. 

3072
02:23:40,640 --> 02:23:43,080
Alice specifically points out 
that that is definitely a 

3073
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:45,080
tradition to car hold. 
It's it's not just a thing in 

3074
02:23:45,080 --> 02:23:46,600
the north, it is a thing in the 
north. 

3075
02:23:46,920 --> 02:23:51,200
But like a lot of things in the 
north, the farther N you go, the

3076
02:23:51,200 --> 02:23:53,560
more common these northern 
traditions are. 

3077
02:23:53,560 --> 02:23:58,080
And as we've said many times, 
car hold is about as far as it 

3078
02:23:58,080 --> 02:23:59,680
gets. 
They're only like second or 

3079
02:23:59,680 --> 02:24:01,360
third farthest away from the 
wall. 

3080
02:24:02,040 --> 02:24:05,480
So if both houses survive, 
what's to come? 

3081
02:24:05,960 --> 02:24:08,680
It will likely be because they 
work together. 

3082
02:24:09,000 --> 02:24:12,160
We saw how badly events turned 
out in the South when they split

3083
02:24:12,160 --> 02:24:14,600
apart. 
Stark and Karr Stark need to be 

3084
02:24:14,600 --> 02:24:18,080
together for the others to be 
defeated, I think. 

3085
02:24:18,440 --> 02:24:21,680
And that's our episode folks. 
Cannibal the Dragon says, could 

3086
02:24:21,680 --> 02:24:22,800
this be a clue of things to 
come? 

3087
02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:24,440
You have the winter sun in the 
beginning and now you have the 

3088
02:24:24,440 --> 02:24:25,400
sun that looks like the warmer 
sun. 

3089
02:24:25,400 --> 02:24:31,040
It could be a little like little
evolution of the sun's role in 

3090
02:24:31,040 --> 02:24:33,000
the north. 
And you know the black sun kind 

3091
02:24:33,000 --> 02:24:35,040
of sounds like white. 
Sun over black is like the long 

3092
02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:37,520
night, the sun in the midst 
emerging from the long night. 

3093
02:24:37,520 --> 02:24:39,560
But this is even better. 
This is a little farther down 

3094
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:42,400
the the road. 
Good call. 

3095
02:24:42,400 --> 02:24:44,840
Cannibal the Dragon. 
It is a little more summer. 

3096
02:24:44,840 --> 02:24:47,120
It is more summary that sun than
the winter sun. 

3097
02:24:47,480 --> 02:24:52,560
The trivia question was again, 
what is Harian's nickname 

3098
02:24:52,560 --> 02:24:53,920
according to Alice? 
Harry. 

3099
02:24:54,240 --> 02:24:55,120
As simple as that. 
Yeah. 

3100
02:24:55,120 --> 02:24:57,400
Harry the air just, you know, 
different air. 

3101
02:24:58,040 --> 02:24:59,920
He is air of the air. 
Well, no, actually, he's air of 

3102
02:24:59,920 --> 02:25:01,840
the Lord. 
He just hasn't inherited, hasn't

3103
02:25:02,080 --> 02:25:04,440
achieved his inheritance yet 
because he's stuck in the South.

3104
02:25:04,680 --> 02:25:07,640
Yeah, he sure is. 
All right folks. 

3105
02:25:07,640 --> 02:25:10,360
Next week we're going to do 
another of our topic Smoot 

3106
02:25:10,360 --> 02:25:12,680
episodes, but I'm not going to 
tell you which one yet. 

3107
02:25:13,400 --> 02:25:17,240
And we've got we're getting 
close to House of the Dragons 

3108
02:25:17,240 --> 02:25:20,520
Season 2 season, which means 
we'll time which means we'll be 

3109
02:25:20,520 --> 02:25:24,320
doing some episodes that deal 
with that era and have topics 

3110
02:25:24,320 --> 02:25:26,560
that are related to that. 
So we're getting soon into that 

3111
02:25:26,560 --> 02:25:29,360
point. 
But for now we'll keep doing 

3112
02:25:29,360 --> 02:25:32,240
what we're doing some episodes 
that relate to this one that 

3113
02:25:32,560 --> 02:25:36,160
might want to check out next to 
keep you immersed our Weirwood 

3114
02:25:36,160 --> 02:25:37,000
tour. 
There's two of them. 

3115
02:25:37,040 --> 02:25:39,560
Two episodes, weirwoods, part 
one and two that includes our 

3116
02:25:39,960 --> 02:25:41,720
everywhere. 
Would we know of discussion of 

3117
02:25:41,720 --> 02:25:47,920
it and theories on our genetic 
component to the looks, which we

3118
02:25:47,920 --> 02:25:50,120
explained in that one? 
Of course Theon's Wins a winter 

3119
02:25:50,120 --> 02:25:53,960
chapter is a chapter we've 
reviewed actually twice over the

3120
02:25:53,960 --> 02:25:55,640
years. 
So at one time, way back when it

3121
02:25:55,640 --> 02:25:58,480
came out and another time a few 
years ago, The Battle of Ice 

3122
02:25:58,560 --> 02:26:00,480
with Jeff Hartline AKA Brendan 
B. 

3123
02:26:00,480 --> 02:26:04,880
Fish, there was a three episode 
set we did back in I think 2014.

3124
02:26:04,880 --> 02:26:06,640
That's still pretty darn 
relevant. 

3125
02:26:06,640 --> 02:26:09,920
So if you want to hear more 
about Stannis's plans and the 

3126
02:26:09,920 --> 02:26:13,200
Karstark's role in that, as well
as the other houses like the 

3127
02:26:13,200 --> 02:26:15,800
Frays and Bolton's, definitely 
check that out. 

3128
02:26:16,080 --> 02:26:19,000
And our episode Battle of the 
Trident, less Karstark in there 

3129
02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:21,080
than most, but certainly was 
relevant to what we talked about

3130
02:26:21,080 --> 02:26:24,480
today given the North rising up 
and fighting for Robert. 

3131
02:26:24,760 --> 02:26:27,000
Talking about the time of Aries,
Battle of Trident is one of our 

3132
02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:30,080
one of our more popular episodes
of the last half year or so. 

3133
02:26:30,760 --> 02:26:34,600
If you didn't catch it well, do 
so now and see what the fuss is 

3134
02:26:34,600 --> 02:26:37,640
all about. 
Thanks to you all for checking 

3135
02:26:37,640 --> 02:26:38,800
us out. 
We really appreciate your 

3136
02:26:38,800 --> 02:26:40,960
support. 
We are an independent podcast. 

3137
02:26:40,960 --> 02:26:45,080
We cannot survive without help 
of our fans, our listeners. 

3138
02:26:45,280 --> 02:26:49,160
It is vital to our existence and
we're appreciative of those of 

3139
02:26:49,160 --> 02:26:51,560
you who pitch in. 
Thanks as well to those of you 

3140
02:26:51,560 --> 02:26:53,680
who helped the show. 
Nina, great help. 

3141
02:26:53,680 --> 02:26:56,200
Again, amazing notes. 
Check her out at good 

3142
02:26:56,200 --> 02:27:00,080
queenalley.tumblr.com Joey, 
Jesse and Bran and Michael 

3143
02:27:00,080 --> 02:27:03,880
Klarfeld for all their work on 
our music and videos. 

3144
02:27:04,160 --> 02:27:06,480
I'm so excited for you all to 
see brands new House of the 

3145
02:27:06,480 --> 02:27:08,640
Dragon intro that he's doing for
US Season 2. 

3146
02:27:08,840 --> 02:27:11,880
His first one was great. 
This one is built off of that 

3147
02:27:12,440 --> 02:27:15,640
greatness. 
And like this map behind me, you

3148
02:27:15,640 --> 02:27:20,600
can find Michael Klarfeld's work
at KLARADO x.de That's Clara 

3149
02:27:20,600 --> 02:27:23,640
docks.de. 
You can pay for the file, 

3150
02:27:23,640 --> 02:27:25,800
whatever map you want and then 
go take it to your local print 

3151
02:27:25,800 --> 02:27:27,640
shop. 
Have it sized however you want. 

3152
02:27:27,640 --> 02:27:30,520
It gives you a lot of options 
and that's it you. 

3153
02:27:30,520 --> 02:27:32,760
Could take that file. 
You could print it on clothes. 

3154
02:27:32,760 --> 02:27:35,680
You could print it on a blanket.
You could print it on fabric. 

3155
02:27:35,680 --> 02:27:39,200
You know what I mean when he 
says take that file, print it 

3156
02:27:39,200 --> 02:27:40,880
however you want. 
You have a lot of options. 

3157
02:27:40,880 --> 02:27:42,640
Yeah, saying. 
Help Michael out. 

3158
02:27:42,960 --> 02:27:45,080
Show him you appreciate his art.
We don't get a cut of that. 

3159
02:27:45,080 --> 02:27:46,480
We're just Michelle done so much
for us. 

3160
02:27:46,480 --> 02:27:47,600
We wanna try to do a little for 
him. 

3161
02:27:47,600 --> 02:27:49,280
We're friends, as simple as 
that. 

3162
02:27:49,440 --> 02:27:52,480
It's a drop in the bucket for 
what he deserves, for the sheer 

3163
02:27:52,480 --> 02:27:54,760
amount of maps he's created for 
this fandom. 

3164
02:27:54,760 --> 02:27:56,360
I mean it's it's a steal of a 
product. 

3165
02:27:56,360 --> 02:27:58,360
Yeah, they're like 25 bucks. 
They're really, they're really 

3166
02:27:58,360 --> 02:28:01,000
affordable. 
So yeah, go check that. 

3167
02:28:01,000 --> 02:28:03,520
Of course, having a printed cost
a little more, but still the 

3168
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:06,640
actual cost to Michael, yeah, 
we're spending from him, very 

3169
02:28:06,640 --> 02:28:08,960
much worth it. 
And until next time you know 

3170
02:28:08,960 --> 02:28:11,720
what to do, my friends, LR 
reread us.