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Hello my fellow historians, 
Happy Sunday or Monday or 

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whatever day you choose to 
listen to this episode. 

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Hope you're having a good day 
wherever you are. 

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I hope we can help with that a 
bit. 

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We are here to talk about the 
trouble with tourneys, but it's 

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no trouble for you. 
It's trouble for the people 

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holding them. 
It doesn't always go the way 

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they intended, doesn't always 
have the impact they intended, 

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and sometimes the intention is 
entirely everything but what it 

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seems to be. 
All the games and battles and 

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fun often masks quite a few 
other agendas, hidden or 

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otherwise, known or otherwise, 
and we're here to discuss that 

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general something. 
Is very true. 

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Yes Sir, you are correct. 
I see you've got your hedge 

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knight shirt there, your Duncan 
egg sigil, your well dunk sigil,

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not egg sigil. 
But yeah, Sir, Duncan the Tall. 

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Sir Duncan the Tall, that's 
right, I've got a Green Man 

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shirt myself today. 
It is not a green shirt, though,

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says Green Man. 
But it is decidedly Gray, so I 

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don't know about that. 
Shout out to our friend Nina, 

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Good Queen Alley with 
1l.tumblr.com. 

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She provided, as almost always 
is the case, some excellent 

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notes for us to talk about and 
on her blog, Good 

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queenalley.tumblr.com. 
The latest post is a discussion 

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whether Viserys could have 
abdicated to Rainiera rather 

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than just waiting till he was 
decrepit and unable to actually 

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rule personally. 
And well, short answer is yes, 

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he could have. 
But as to why and other factors,

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well, you'll want to read the 
blog post. 

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We'll be at the Game of Thrones 
convention in Los Angeles, all 

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three of us plus others. 
But maybe we'll have some fun 

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content. 
We did a vlog when we went to 

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San Diego Comic Con, so I don't 
know, maybe we'll think of 

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something. 
We'll see what's going on and 

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and maybe post whatever happens 
the the Khan's a little bit 

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disorganized at this point, but 
we're now going to have a good 

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time. 
We're now we're going to see 

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some some stars and see what 
happens. 

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So we'll report on that whatever
is worth reporting on. 

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This episode was voted on by 
patrons as usual. 

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It beat out the life of Harwin, 
the baseless Guiles and under 

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the Dragons, the Riverlands. 
Those were the three other 

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topics that were available and 
this was the winner. 

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Our trivia question to start 
off, which night? 

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When's a joust against a Knight 
in the Hands tournament, As in 

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the one held in honor of Ned 
Stark? 

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So this person defeated a knight
and then actually killed them 

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for real later. 
Which knight did that? 

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As far as I know, that only 
happened once in this 

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tournament. 
There may be. 

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It's possible there's another 
one, but I think there's just 

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the one. 
If you can name them, you get 

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it. 
You get to pat yourself on the 

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back. 
Bonus points meaning bonus pat 

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on the back if you can name the 
victim as well. 

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Though I suppose if you know 
one, you probably know both. 

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Sean picked out a good quote for
us to start with. 

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Let's hear it. 
Let me ask real quick, by the 

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way, is the trouble with 
tournaments, is that a plan? 

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The trouble with tribbles is 
that a little bit. 

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Reference. 
You're trying to? 

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Yeah, a little bit. 
Yeah. 

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Little Star Wars Reference. 
That was the first Star Trek. 

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Star Trek. 
Oh, my bad. 

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Yeah. 
Whoops. 

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Heresy. 
I call it Star Trek. 

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Star Wars. 
My goodness. 

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Start the whole podcast over I 
and I mean the whole like, I'll 

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delete all the episodes Start 
Yeah, Trouble with troubles. 

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That was the first Star Trek 
episode ever, wasn't it? 

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I think it was number. 
I don't think so. 

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I I think it was in the first 
season is. 

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The 15th episode of the second 
season. 

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It was. 
It's not even. 

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Close. 
Damn, where did I get that from?

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All right, I'm just wrong I 
suppose. 

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Anyway, well, again, burn down 
the whole podcast. 

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Start over. 
It's the Hands tourney that's 

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the cause of all the trouble, my
Lords, The commander of the City

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of Watch complained to the 
King's Council. 

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The King's tourney? 
Ned corrected, Wentzing. 

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I assure you, the Hand wants no 
part of it. 

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Ned is an important bellwether 
for tournaments here. 

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He kind of gets that they don't 
really serve the purpose that 

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they that they intend. 
They don't really accomplish 

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much. 
They cost a lot of money. 

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There's a lot of extra effort 
that goes into them that aren't 

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isn't necessary. 
Ned doesn't. 

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Yeah, there's a lot of things 
about them Ned doesn't like. 

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He he has a bias too. 
Like maybe at least sometimes 

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they do serve a good purpose or 
they are worth their money, but 

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they don't really have them in 
the North, you know? 

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So Ned's not really accustomed 
to this in the 1st place and 

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this tournament has some 
particular. 

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Trouble. 
Yeah, he definitely doesn't want

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to honor him. 
He's like, no, I like Robert. 

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Just wanted it as an excuse. 
Here's a little bit I wrote to 

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start us off. 
There's a lot of aspects to 

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tournaments. 
We're not going to cover all of 

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them. 
Not all of the tourneys, 

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certainly. 
There's so many, as you'll see 

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as we go through this. 
There's just an inordinate 

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number. 
They're really constant thing 

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that don't always get like a 
special title or the tournament 

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of this or that. 
There's sometimes they're just a

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tournament and it happened and 
it was small, but they're 

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really, there's a lot of unnamed
ones basically, especially in 

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certain eras, like during the 
era of Viserys, we got the idea 

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that there was lots of them. 
House of the Dragons showed a 

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couple or one and talked about 
others. 

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But if we were if they were 
really to show all the 

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tournaments that had actually 
happened in that era, it would 

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have been literally dozens, like
many per year it seems like. 

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So not to mention ones that 
Viserys didn't throw himself, 

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there would have been other 
ones. 

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But yeah, it really just 
emphasizes how much of a party 

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Viserys reign was for for a lot 
of people when really there were

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problems going on. 
So we'll, we'll be focusing on 

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how tourneys show the state of 
the realm. 

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As we saw a lot of times, you 
can tell a lot by how people 

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behave during them or what they 
bring to the table or how 

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aggressive or not aggressive 
they are or what they're trying 

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to prove or not prove or things 
like that. 

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You have something you wanted to
say, Sean? 

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I just want to be an apologist 
for Thesaurus. 

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There might have been more 
troubles if not for the 

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tournaments. 
And maybe that gave people some 

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focus, some something to use 
their time and energy on that 

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kept them from doing other worst
things. 

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That's. 
A good point. 

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Yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah. 
So what we'll. 

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So we'll be focusing on whether 
that is a good thing or bad 

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thing or both. 
Sometimes it's it shows 

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satisfaction or unrest. 
Anything in between tournaments 

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provide cover for like minded 
Lords and Knights to meet 

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without suspicion. 
If a couple of storm Lords are 

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all meeting, you know, 
undercover of darkness are all 

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hanging out together, someone 
might start to get suspicious, 

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they plotting rebellion or 
they're doing what is going on. 

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They keep meeting like this and 
that. 

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And but if you're all gathered 
for a tournament, I mean, 

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there's no suspicion, at least 
not automatically, right? 

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You're supposed to be there. 
You're supposed to be hanging 

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out. 
It it. 

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So it provides cover for 
conspiracy theories or actual 

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conspiracies 'cause sometimes it
is just paranoia. 

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Like, what are those guys doing 
hanging out? 

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Well, you're getting someone 
like Aries. 

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Sometimes Aries was right, like 
Aries was right about the 

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Fredman in Harrenhal, but he was
obviously paranoid about a lot 

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of other things that didn't 
happen. 

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It provides fodder for 
conspiracy theories cover for 

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our conspiracy. 
Yeah, there you go. 

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That's a better way to put. 
And there's other of course, in 

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cases like Duncan Egg and the 
Mystery Night, they're they 

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think there's no suspicion. 
They were like no one knows 

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we're meeting here. 
That's clever Black fire when 

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actually, no, they they figured 
you out. 

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But it was that was one of the 
more stark examples, Blackfyre 

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examples really, But of a 
tournament, that's not what it 

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seems. 
They went way too far on leaning

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into the. 
We can use this as a cover 

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store. 
It's like, yeah, it's not that 

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much of a cover. 
So the tournament Herron Hall, 

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of course, is probably the most 
famous tournament of All in all 

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of A Song of Ice and Fire. 
And there's a lot of reasons for

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that. 
We'll we'll get into it 

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specifically, but we're not 
going to be able to cover 

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everything about the tournament 
of Harrenhal because it really 

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did have like everything, right?
It it's probably it, it is 

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probably the most important 
tournament in all of the fandom.

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We're not going to talk about 
Brandon and Ned and Ashara and 

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Barristan and all that fun 
drama, but we're going to we 

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acknowledge that it happened and
that wouldn't have happened 

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without this, with this 
tournaments setting the stage 

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for that. 
It it's something that also 

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obviously affects the story 
deeply. 

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And it's hard to draw a line 
exactly where the overlap for 

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what's what counts as tournament
conspiracy and what counts as 

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just stuff that happens at 
tournaments. 

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It's not a clear distinct line 
we can draw because obviously 

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that had a big effect on 
politics. 

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What happened with Ned and Char 
and and and Brandon and etcetera

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still got to draw the line 
somewhere. 

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For the same reason, we won't 
have to say about things like 

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tournaments where Joro won and 
married Lyness that politics 

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mattered. 
And there was probably stuff 

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happening at that tournament. 
There were probably Lords and 

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ladies talking, maybe even doing
deals. 

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But but everything we know about
the tournament is from Joro's 

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perspective. 
Like he wasn't involved in any 

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of that. 
He was just stars in his eyes, 

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trying to do his best and headed
the favor of Lyness on his arm. 

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And he was, that's all he was 
thinking about, right? 

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He wasn't thinking about 
anything else. 

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So he's not exactly our window 
to political goings on at that 

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tournament, whatever they may or
may not have been. 

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On the other hand, we're still 
wondering to this day why Lord 

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Hightower consented to marry 
her. 

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To him of all people. 
That was unusual. 

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And maybe politics was involved.
So we can even say there 

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probably was some under the 
radar stuff going on there. 

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We just don't know what it was. 
All we can do is kind of point 

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to and say there's more to that 
story, but we don't know what it

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is. 
There's a lot of being results 

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oriented too, right? 
There might be a lot of 

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intriguing these different 
tournaments that didn't come to 

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fruition, didn't make the 
history books. 

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So the ones that did, we focus 
on more and that makes sense. 

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One example that does fall well 
within our wheelhouse is Tywin 

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wanting to marry Cersei to 
Rhaegar at the tournament for 

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Viserys's birth. 
It was the whole point of that 

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tournament. 
He held his. 

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Yes, it was Viserys's birth that
was the the reason for the 

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celebration, But the purpose was
to marry Cersei to Rhaegar. 

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The whole thing was a failure 
because that didn't happen. 

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Right. 
Like, ultimately Taiwan's like, 

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I wish I hadn't done this 
because he told me I'm his 

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servant. 
Yeah. 

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So this is a good example of how
the tourney is often a facade 

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for the maneuvering of power 
players or for some other 

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agenda. 
Taiwan's is as good as it gets 

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as far as showing us an example 
like that. 

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If if not say the Black Second 
Black Fire Rebellion. 

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So here's another quote. 
This is where Sansa after she 

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lost some of her naivete. 
This is a clash of King's Sansa 

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2. 
King Robert had staged it in her

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father's honor. 
High Lords and fabled champions 

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had come from all over the realm
to compete, and the whole city 

230
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,440
had turned out to watch. 
She remembered the splendor of 

231
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,680
it. 
The field of pavilions along the

232
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:50,000
river with a Knight's shield 
hung before each door, the long 

233
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,080
rows of silken pennants waving 
in the wind, the gleam of 

234
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,360
sunlight on bright steel and 
gilded spurs. 

235
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,920
The days had rung to the sounds 
of trumpets and pounding hooves,

236
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,000
and the Knights had been full of
feasts and song. 

237
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,920
Those had been the most magical 
days of her life, but they 

238
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,360
seemed a memory from another age
now. 

239
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,920
Yes, we agree. 
We too have learned that they 

240
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,560
are much more than glory and 
splendor. 

241
00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,320
It's rather the point of this 
episode to dig beneath that. 

242
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,080
Sansa was disabused with that 
notion very quickly. 

243
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,080
And she's speaking for us here. 
So thanks, Sansa. 

244
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,240
Sansa. 
And that's what she says. 

245
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,080
This would seem like a memory 
from another age now. 

246
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,760
I mean, it's like it's like a 
year, like a year has passed. 

247
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,360
But it but she did. 
That's a that was a long year. 

248
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:39,520
It was a lot of growing. 
She 10. 

249
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,720
Percent of her life, 10%. 
Yeah, you're right. 

250
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,680
And especially the first few 
years of your life, you don't 

251
00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,000
really have memories or control 
in the 1st place. 

252
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,600
So, you know, maybe 20% of. 
Her life, your your life moves 

253
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,960
quickly when you're learning. 
Yeah. 

254
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,760
When you're a teenager, when you
move from one Kingdom to another

255
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,120
and live in an entirely 
different place. 

256
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,400
Yeah. 
I think you would pick up a few 

257
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,560
things, yeah. 
On a sort of a metal level meta 

258
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,600
level, it's sort of an age ago. 
For people who read the book 

259
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,760
when it first came out, or even 
the first season of Game of 

260
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,320
Thrones, that seems like a 
different time ago. 

261
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,280
Yeah, yeah, right. 
Like I, I think about the first 

262
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,880
time I read the Game of Thrones 
and I definitely had no idea 

263
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,720
like what else could happen at 
tournaments. 

264
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,680
That was just, that's why I 
tried to liken myself to Sands. 

265
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,040
I'm like, yeah, it's pretty 
exciting. 

266
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:24,400
There's banners and clashing 
horses and Shields and lances. 

267
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,200
It's pretty cool. 
You know, I was closer to Sansa 

268
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,680
than Ned when it when I ran. 
No Ned. 

269
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:31,440
It'll be a downer. 
I want to see the tournament. 

270
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,200
Man, that's pretty cool. 
But now, like, I still want to 

271
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,560
see the tournament, but I'm, you
know, I'm, I'm looking out for 

272
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:39,720
different things. 
That's different reasons, right?

273
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,720
So here's a, a sampling of 
tournaments we'll discuss today.

274
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,520
Harrenhal, of course, that was 
in 281. 

275
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,600
Ashford Meadow will come up. 
That's the hedge night. 

276
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,480
White Walls, that's the mystery 
night. 

277
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,120
The Hands Tournament, very early
at Game of Thrones. 

278
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,920
The Rainbow Guard Tournament, 
which was very early. 

279
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,720
Fairly early at Clash of Kings. 
Tournament of Viserys's 

280
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,400
Ascension where Kristen Cole 
beats everyone and wins 

281
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,920
Rainier's favor. 
That's going to come up. 

282
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,440
House of the Dragon Episode 1 
Turning, which was really an 

283
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,120
amalgam of the many tournaments 
early in Viserys's reign. 

284
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,640
There was like there took a few 
pieces of a couple of different 

285
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:13,400
ones and mashed them together, 
which is a typical and 

286
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,320
understandable thing for ATV 
Show to do. 

287
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,720
Viserys slash Allison's fifth 
anniversary tournament, which 

288
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,480
was portrayed on TVA little 
differently, but basically 

289
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,640
accomplished the same thing. 
It was the blacks and greens 

290
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,160
tournament, so things kind of 
essentially ended up in the same

291
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,600
spot. 
So that's a really good one for 

292
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880
us to discuss. 
I already mentioned Viserys's 

293
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,320
birth, meaning Danny's brother 
Viserys as Tywin's vehicle to 

294
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,000
get Cersei to marry Rhaegar. 
We'll talk about that one and 

295
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,280
the upcoming tourney of the Wing
at Knights. 

296
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,760
We'll avoid spoilers because 
that's AT Wow chapter, but I 

297
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:43,720
know a lot of you are aware of 
it. 

298
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,080
We'll, but we'll at least 
acknowledge it. 

299
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,320
And what's interesting about 
that one, while avoiding 

300
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,960
spoilers, is it shows that there
is still at least one more 

301
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,640
tournament going to happen in 
this in in a Song of Ice and 

302
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,320
Fire. 
If not, maybe after the war is 

303
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,560
over, maybe they have some sort 
of celebratory tourney. 

304
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,200
It would seem a little weird to 
have more battle after all that,

305
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,720
Like that's the last thing we 
need is to do more fighting. 

306
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,480
But martial society? 
Maybe they'll just have pillows 

307
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:12,960
at the end of their lances or 
something. 

308
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:18,160
But anyway, it goes to show that
even with winter coming, Civil 

309
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:19,960
War having rage, people are 
still having tournaments. 

310
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,440
You know, the tournament of the 
Wing Knights coming up. 

311
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,000
So that'll be the one we finish 
with. 

312
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,520
Note as well how often George 
uses them early on. 

313
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,000
They're at the there's one at 
the start of all the books and 

314
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,000
shows, not counting the history 
books, right? 

315
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,680
The history books start before 
tournaments even existed. 

316
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,720
So, so you can't quite start 
there with them, but they do 

317
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:43,720
have lots of tournaments in 
them. 

318
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,160
They're just not like right at 
the beginning. 

319
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,600
And the history books came out 
after all the other material 

320
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,280
when the, you know, the the 
tournaments are a really good 

321
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,840
device for introducing 
characters, setting the stage 

322
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,720
for things. 
You know, we're going to go on 

323
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,720
and talk about this a lot, but 
it it makes sense to have them 

324
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,440
early on, similar to like 
weddings and funerals, other 

325
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,000
events that like bring your key 
characters all together at once.

326
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,760
But it's a little more difficult
to start off with a wedding or a

327
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,000
funeral. 
A tournament starts off a little

328
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,880
bit of action. 
You don't necessarily need the 

329
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,240
build up of the relationship to 
have the wedding or you know, 

330
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,240
mean as much. 
You need less excuse to hold the

331
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,520
tournament. 
You need more Maybe you need 

332
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,560
more money or space, but but you
don't a a a wedding requires 

333
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,400
well, two people need to be 
getting married and you need. 

334
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,960
Yeah. 
And in the case of nobility, 

335
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,160
which is usually what we're 
talking about here, there's 

336
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,240
that's a big deal. 
But yeah, so tournament you just

337
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,760
need naming a new hell. 
Also as a as a writing device. 

338
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,960
So you want to care more about 
the people getting married or 

339
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,880
the person that died, right. 
So like it's, you need some 

340
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,280
build up to that. 
But the tournament can introduce

341
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,720
people whether you care about it
or not. 

342
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,080
It can make you care about them.
That's the point. 

343
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,240
Yeah, exactly. 
A warrior, they get screwed or 

344
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,440
they have a plan or whatever 
else. 

345
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,040
Yeah. 
So Duncan Egg starts with one 

346
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,520
the hedge Knight. 
I mean it is a tournament, the 

347
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,800
whole thing is a tournament. 
So the trial by combat, which is

348
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,480
an extension of that. 
The Game of Thrones, the Neds 

349
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,440
tournament is pretty early on. 
It's the fourth episode of the 

350
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,080
TV show is when that happens, 
the equivalent episode 1 of 

351
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:06,880
House of the Dragon tournament 
right away, right? 

352
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,960
So that was almost 
instantaneous. 

353
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,640
Season 2 of Game of Thrones 
starts with Jos Name Day 

354
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,880
tournament, which is a little 
weak because of the wars 

355
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,040
happening. 
They don't have all the people 

356
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,600
there, but it is also right away
in A Clash of Kings. 

357
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,320
And then episode 3 of Season 2 
of Game of Thrones is the 

358
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,360
Rainbow Guard Tournament, which 
is, you know, a few chapters in 

359
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,560
for Catlin's Ark. 
I doubt we'll see another one in

360
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,280
House of the Dragon during the 
Dance era. 

361
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,320
When they shift eras eventually,
certainly we will. 

362
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,680
I would think, though they 
understandably, like I said, 

363
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,120
skipped over a bunch during 
Desseris's reign. 

364
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,680
There were actually a lot more. 
So we'll see. 

365
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,920
And Sean, you brought up another
thing as you brought up how 

366
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,360
introducing characters is a 
really important thing and how 

367
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,280
valuable tournament can be for 
that because it's not just 

368
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,280
showing you the characters, it 
shows you a little bit what 

369
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,800
they're capable of as practice 
for war. 

370
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,560
They function well to get the 
reader primed for more severe 

371
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,080
violence later. 
We've seen tournaments can be 

372
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,040
pretty violent. 
People die, people get severely 

373
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,880
injured, but accepting Greg or 
Clegaine, people usually aren't 

374
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,079
trying to kill their opponent in
a tournament. 

375
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,079
So it but it helps you see like 
who's mad at who? 

376
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,960
Like you see Gregor and Loris 
already they have an issue with 

377
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,400
each other because of that more 
Gregor towards Loris than the 

378
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,680
other way around. 
But that establishes that shows 

379
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,240
grievances, reminds people of 
existing grievances. 

380
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,800
That one Loris and Gregor was a 
new one that happened right 

381
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,880
there. 
But there were prior grievances 

382
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,440
established and revealed to show
red flags about character 

383
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,440
behavior. 
People gambling on the 

384
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,640
tournament, maybe not a big 
deal. 

385
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,680
Gambling on a tournament, no big
deal by itself. 

386
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,960
But it might indicate someone 
has a gambling problem. 

387
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,400
It might. 
Someone might have debts. 

388
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,440
Debts can be exploited, right? 
Someone comes along and say, 

389
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,040
we'll pay your debt off if you 
do this underhanded thing for 

390
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,520
us. 
Like the mafia coming to collect

391
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,800
their favor, You know, like 
Littlefinger doing kind of 

392
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,240
things like that. 
Or maybe even virus. 

393
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,240
It also shows personality 
traits. 

394
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,720
Like, again, with Gregor, we see
that this guy is a murderous 

395
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,760
rage head. 
They have an impact on whatever 

396
00:17:58,760 --> 00:17:59,800
community they're in, too, 
right? 

397
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,080
Whether it's a castle grounds, a
city or a village, there can be.

398
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,200
You're bringing in a bunch of 
people that don't have a lot of 

399
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,640
care for the common folk, and 
that can result in a lot of 

400
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,200
murder, rapes, looting, bad 
stuff, destroying the local 

401
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,880
economy, things like that. 
So yeah. 

402
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,560
You know, again, sort of on a 
middle level as a writing 

403
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,760
device, it's it's not as 
contrived at a tournament, 

404
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,080
people get announced and people 
are going to be identifying each

405
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,680
other. 
And you know, especially in 

406
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,320
this, it's in this world of 
Martin, we're going to get like 

407
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,720
the sigils. 
You know, it's a good excuse 

408
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,640
rather than having someone say 
hello, Jamie, my brother, how 

409
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,480
are you going to perform, you 
know, like it? 

410
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,200
It makes more sense in the 
context of a tournament for 

411
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,200
people to be getting introduced 
to each other and pointed out to

412
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,040
each other and stuff like that. 
So it's, again, it's a really a 

413
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,800
good writing device for more 
natural conversation, but to 

414
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,800
also convey a lot of information
to the audience. 

415
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,840
Yeah, they're really fitting to 
from a world builder 

416
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,360
perspective. 
Obviously they were a part of 

417
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:00,640
the real world from about the 
12th to 6th century in in 

418
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,240
Europe, other military games 
that evolved into this. 

419
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,280
It's not, this isn't the first 
example of military style games 

420
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,840
or war games or practice. 
There's a that's another thing 

421
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,080
that's kind of an overlapping 
practice and gaming. 

422
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,800
If you're legitimately wielding 
weapons and swinging them at 

423
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,320
each other, they can call it 
either, but they're both 

424
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,920
practice. 
They're both forms of practice 

425
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,560
in a sense. 
They just have a little 

426
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,600
different presentation. 
Yeah, apparently there's this 

427
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,400
term. 
I think I'm saying it right, 

428
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,680
Hestalude. 
Hestalude was sort of a general 

429
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:37,480
term for competitive combat, you
know, like just testing skills 

430
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,160
of war and A tournament was one 
form of hestalude. 

431
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,400
I guess sometimes it might just 
be like soldiers training, or 

432
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,000
might be, you know, testing 1, 
you know, just jousting or 

433
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,640
whatever else. 
But eventually the idea of 

434
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,000
people coming together for a 
tournament evolved out of these 

435
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,800
hestaludes. 
And and also originally it was 

436
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,120
mostly melees. 
Jousting was something that came

437
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,960
like way later into it. 
And it the melees would involve 

438
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,320
like large numbers of people. 
It wasn't just like 8 or 10. 

439
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,320
And it wasn't this free for all.
They basically got formed into 

440
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,520
like, basically locals and not 
locals. 

441
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,040
Yeah, like people from this area
and people that came into this 

442
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,480
area. 
Good fighting into teams. 

443
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,360
And the word tournament comes 
from the the verb to turn 

444
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,040
'cause, you know, usually you 
have this charge and you bust 

445
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,720
through and then there might be,
you know, a mesh of different 

446
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,160
combat happens, like you move 
forward to the next line or get 

447
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,920
killed or whatever. 
But in a tournament, once you 

448
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,840
like pass, you turn around and 
reface. 

449
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,320
Yeah, that's where the word 
tournament came from. 

450
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:36,800
Yeah. 
They in a tournament, you're 

451
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,920
going to constantly pass or 
return and. 

452
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,160
Remember that show Norseman 
where they're talking about like

453
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,240
how they know how to fight each 
other? 

454
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,440
And he's like, I don't know if 
they're facing me, they're the 

455
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,560
enemy. 
And I, we, I killed them, you 

456
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,440
know, we're facing each other. 
They were ripping on How do you 

457
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:53,760
tell? 
How do you feel like they're not

458
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,400
dressed? 
It's all Norsemen. 

459
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,760
It's like I'm picturing in 
these, in this scenario, you're 

460
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,000
saying I'm like, OK, well, the 
locals have a real leg up 

461
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,880
because they know each other. 
They know not to attack each 

462
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,520
other. 
But if you don't know your other

463
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,000
the other people on your team. 
Yeah. 

464
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,520
By the way, that is a legit part
of Comet. 

465
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,320
That's why you have the 
standards, the banners, the 

466
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,160
coats, the the sigils, all that 
stuff. 

467
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,000
That is because it really is a 
part of Comet. 

468
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,920
Even a modern war, A little bit 
less in modern modern war. 

469
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,800
But I mean, it was like a huge 
number of casualties in Vietnam 

470
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,160
were just friendly fire. 
Just it's hard to know. 

471
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,440
You have a word to shout to, to 
indicate what side you're on, 

472
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,520
but that that was easily 
suborned by the enemy. 

473
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,520
Like if they learned your word, 
like they had real flaws to it, 

474
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,600
but it was better than nothing. 
So yeah, that's where colors and

475
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,120
livery and things like that. 
Like you got to have like teams 

476
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:45,680
wearing colors. 
It's the same logic. 

477
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,920
Like you got to get a tell. 
Tackling the wrong player would 

478
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,200
be is a disaster, right? 
Like. 

479
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,560
Being at the wrong basket or 
whatever. 

480
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:52,400
Yeah, I like that. 
Yeah. 

481
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,400
That was another thing that 
evolved in tournaments by the 

482
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,800
way, like over time it it got to
be more of like an A social 

483
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,800
event and and it was a lot more 
about the play of it all, if 

484
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,800
that makes sense. 
Like sometimes people like come 

485
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,680
costumed to certain characters 
or there would be directions for

486
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,240
attendees to all wear like the 
Queen's colors. 

487
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,440
So everyone's supposed to wear 
blue, different things like 

488
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,920
that. 
It really, it did become 

489
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,520
elements to the tournament 
beyond just the people fighting 

490
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,480
each other really did grow in 
importance to the course of it. 

491
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,000
And it was, by the way, the 
melees, our vision is usually 

492
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,520
like there's some stands and a 
little field and they kind of 

493
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,480
fight. 
It would spread out over miles 

494
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,600
for these melees. 
It would last all day. 

495
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,000
And part of it was you would 
take ransom, you would capture 

496
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,920
people ransom like back. 
That was part of. 

497
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,000
Just like in motivations. 
Who attend? 

498
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,400
Not. 
Similar anyway. 

499
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,160
Yeah, similar at least, yeah. 
To to make yeah, to make 

500
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,720
yourself and make money, yeah 
and. 

501
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,160
And sometimes it would get a 
little too real, you know, like 

502
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,600
the idea of having blunted 
swords or whatever that didn't 

503
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:51,480
come till deep. 
End. 

504
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,440
Oh yeah, they're for real 
weapons isn't that wild? 

505
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,200
Like any just without referees, 
people just probably just out 

506
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,240
there killing each other like, 
yeah, like we talk about people 

507
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,320
with grudges against each other.
There's no one there to witness 

508
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,040
it. 
Like, yeah, it's, it's just. 

509
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,680
It didn't seem to happen too 
often, but it wasn't. 

510
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,840
It couldn't have like it never. 
Yeah. 

511
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,280
I couldn't have moved to. 
I don't know. 

512
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,680
I don't know what. 
Somewhere between common and, 

513
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,760
you know, a surprise, a, a 
tragedy when it happened, but 

514
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,880
still kind of common, you know, 
and. 

515
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,080
Eventually they there was 
efforts to ban it, right, But it

516
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,560
always came for a while it came 
back and it was difficult to 

517
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:20,600
ban. 
I think people liked it. 

518
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,080
Yeah, at one point, the Pope, 
the king of England, the king of

519
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,360
France all tried to ban it at 
different points. 

520
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,880
But because, for one, what 
happens is the people who are 

521
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,360
supposed to be keeping peace in 
town or whatever, they like, 

522
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,280
leave to go to this man. 
Like, well, hey, you're supposed

523
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,880
to be doing gardening tomorrow. 
And sometimes on the way there, 

524
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,720
they would, like, attack people,
pillage. 

525
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,400
It's hard to, like, regulate. 
No one knows you're going into 

526
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,560
foreign land. 
That's just. 

527
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,360
Cancelled culture Run them up 
trying to end tourneys Like 

528
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,680
where will they stop? 
They could take our gladiatorial

529
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,600
games next. 
Yeah, I read that. 

530
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,880
I read, I read that there was 
one was going to be held in some

531
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,000
town in France and. 
And, and bless the French for 

532
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,480
pushing back against authority. 
They're so good at it. 

533
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,160
They went, they were like, no, 
no tournament. 

534
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,280
It cost too much. 
It destroys the local area. 

535
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:07,840
They revolted. 
And that was like, that was the 

536
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,760
last time they ever tried to 
have one because it was like 

537
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,640
they had enough. 
Yeah. 

538
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,800
And then that goes to show. 
Yeah. 

539
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,680
It's like it's fun for the 
nobility, but a lot of people, 

540
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,920
for the lower end people, for 
the commoners, for people who 

541
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,000
don't have that kind of money, a
lot of times it's it's real bad.

542
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,600
Not just an annoyance, but like,
destructive. 

543
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,320
Yeah. 
Sometimes it's especially in the

544
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,000
beginning, it could be fun or 
exciting. 

545
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,160
But when it's over and they ate 
all, they killed all the cows 

546
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,360
and ate them and took, you know,
the, the, the fields of crops 

547
00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:35,240
that were trampled over by all 
the tents and horses that came 

548
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,440
through and like, man, don't do 
that again, please. 

549
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,120
If you've ever lived in a city 
that, like, hosted the World Cup

550
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,400
or the Olympics or the Super 
Bowl, you know you've seen it, 

551
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,120
especially if you've seen the 
long term afterwards like 

552
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,560
Atlanta had the. 
It was the World Cup in 9496. 

553
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,960
What was that? 
No, it was the Olympics. 

554
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:51,480
Olympics. 
Yeah. 

555
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,760
And that it was such a mess 
afterwards. 

556
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,840
It was a mess for a long time, 
decades. 

557
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,480
Like the things, what they had 
to do with that And. 

558
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,480
And the city felt fleeced. 
Yeah. 

559
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,920
So anyway, think of those. 
A lot of money on infrastructure

560
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,960
with taxes from Atlantans. 
Yeah, that for stuff that just 

561
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,000
didn't get used after those 
three months or whatever. 

562
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,880
Yeah. 
And and then those were sold to 

563
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,640
rich people afterwards to like 
turn into condos or something. 

564
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,920
Yeah, it's really the similar 
energy at tournaments like 

565
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,320
there, there isn't condos 
afterwards, but but there is. 

566
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,640
The money flows upwards and 
things like this a lot more than

567
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,720
it flows downwards or sideways. 
It flows from one rich person to

568
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,640
another. 
Nina says Hastelude is in the 

569
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,600
books. 
Here it is. 

570
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,360
It was nine years past. 
At Storm's End. 

571
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,480
Lord Baratheon held a Hastelude 
to celebrate the birth of a 

572
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,560
grandson. 
The lots made Sir Arlen my 

573
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,640
opponent in the first tilt. 
Yep. 

574
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,000
Arlen, a penny tree. 
So that would be Baylor 

575
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,920
Brakespear speaking, I believe. 
Anyway. 

576
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:46,480
So, yeah. 
So there. 

577
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,280
So they have. 
As we see, there's a lot of 

578
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,720
reasons to hold a tournament. 
Marriage, birth, ascension to 

579
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,280
hand. 
Like in Ned's case, peace deals.

580
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,280
But of course, Westeros also has
its unique qualities and some 

581
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,240
things that don't exist 
elsewhere that we should 

582
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,480
acknowledge here. 
At the beginning, during the era

583
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,920
of Jaheris, tournaments were 
more about the splendor and just

584
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,480
keeping the peace because there 
was less intriguing going on 

585
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,160
during such a successful, 
powerful reign. 

586
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,480
There weren't a lot of efforts 
to remove him from the throne 

587
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,520
after the early days. 
Like early on there were. 

588
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,640
But once it was going different 
things. 

589
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,560
So, but when all the Targaryens 
gather, it's a very interesting 

590
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,400
thing and here we go, quote. 
The Great Tourney held at King's

591
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,440
Landing in 98 AC to celebrate 
the 50th year of King Jaharis's 

592
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,280
reign, surely gladdened the 
Queen's heart as well, for most 

593
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,160
of her surviving children, 
grandchildren and great 

594
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,680
grandchildren returned to share 
in the feasts and celebrations. 

595
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,680
Not since the Doom of Valyria 
had so many Dragons been seen in

596
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,160
one place at one time. 
It was truly said. 

597
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,800
Yeah, so there there probably 
was some intrigue at this 

598
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,080
tournament, but it would have 
been probably on the lower 

599
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,160
level. 
We got 50 years of Jairus ruling

600
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,000
and I guess no one's thinking 
about removing him. 

601
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,440
The the the person of course, is
being referred to the XI, of 

602
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,400
course, is Alice Anne here. 
And the reason being, not since 

603
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,280
the Doom of Valyria had so many 
Dragons been seen in one place 

604
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,560
at one time. 
It's just a reminder. 

605
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,840
That's why no one's trying to 
overthrow the Targaryens, except

606
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,120
the other Targaryens is the 
Dragons, Right. 

607
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,120
Like you're just not going to go
up against that lightly, 

608
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,080
especially after people in the 
early days tried that and proved

609
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,680
how it's not a good idea. 
There could be intrigued there 

610
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,520
beyond overthrowing the 
Targaryen. 

611
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,080
So there's probably still people
maneuvering to weather kids each

612
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,160
other or to like overtake 
someone's good point bridge to 

613
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,000
the river or something like that
and or even things that maybe 

614
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,200
take longer to play out. 
I I was I was reminded doing 

615
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,120
research for this episode that I
don't know that we hear anything

616
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:47,840
else about this tournament. 
But Walter Frey, when he's 

617
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,320
talking to Caitlin, talks about 
a tournament he went to that 

618
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,640
John Aaron had at King's 
Landing. 

619
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,440
I'm, I'm guessing it was a hands
tournament too, I guess. 

620
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,400
And his sons were competing and 
went to see when his son's all 

621
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,720
too crappy and was upset that he
went. 

622
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,360
But he also proposed a marriage 
and he wanted, he wanted to 

623
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:06,280
award Robin Aaron. 
Yeah. 

624
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,600
Right. 
That's when that's that's how we

625
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,880
get some of that plot line 
going. 

626
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,920
Yeah, yeah. 
And he was laughed off and and I

627
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,200
get, you know, nothing at that 
tournament, I don't think came 

628
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,880
of this, but it led to to Walter
Frey doing and steaming and felt

629
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,280
leftover by all these other 
Lords and he was just looking 

630
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,240
for this opportunity to screw 
them over it. 

631
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,840
I think that probably planted 
the seed for the Red Wedding. 

632
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,680
It did, it helped set up Rob, 
him siding with Rob, which then 

633
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,360
helped set up him turning on 
Rob. 

634
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:37,280
Yes, because he wants to be 
recognized amongst those high 

635
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,200
level Lords. 
He's very prickly about that. 

636
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,280
Very good call there Shawn. 
The first ever known tournament 

637
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,320
is considered somewhat 
legendary, but it's it's 

638
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,960
recorded as 50 Lords competing 
for the Hand of Maris the maid, 

639
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,640
the daughter of Garth Greenhand,
Argoth Stoneskin won the melee. 

640
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,280
It would have been a melee, not 
a tournament, not a joust 

641
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,000
rather. 
But Uthor of the Hightower ran 

642
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,480
off with her. 
Argoth, whose other nickname 

643
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,680
apart from Stoneskin was the 
Grey Giant, was mad about it for

644
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,760
the rest of his life. 
Hello Robert and Rhaegar and 

645
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,480
Liana Parallels. 
Hello dance slash House of the 

646
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,280
Dragon parallels. 
We got a high tower running off 

647
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,640
with the bride. 
We've got a big guy who beats 

648
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,560
everyone mad about someone 
taking his woman away, which is 

649
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,640
Robert and Liana and Rhaegar, 
right? 

650
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,040
That's all similar stuff. 
We even have the guy named Uther

651
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,640
Uther, which is almost certainly
a riff off of Uther Uther 

652
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:37,080
Pendragon, which translates to 
chief or head dragon or chief or

653
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,640
head warrior. 
And well, he was the Lord of the

654
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,320
Hightower at that time. 
So there you go. 

655
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,040
We'll mostly go through these 
tournaments in chronological 

656
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,960
order, so we'll start with some 
of the Dance of the Dragons era,

657
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,560
or prior to it. 
The Tournament of Viserys 

658
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,600
Ascension. 
That Maidenpool, that's where it

659
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,320
happened. 
Of course, in the show, it 

660
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,520
happened at King's Landing, and 
the books happened at 

661
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,160
Maidenpool. 
Maidenpool's not far away. 

662
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,280
Not a big difference. 
Here's the quote. 

663
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,480
The Saris 1 Targaryen had a 
generous, amiable nature and was

664
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,160
well loved by his Lords and 
small folk alike. 

665
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,040
The reign of the young King, as 
the Commons called him upon his 

666
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,520
ascent, was peaceful and 
prosperous. 

667
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,800
His Grace's open handedness was 
legendary, and the Red Keep 

668
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,520
became a place of song and 
splendor. 

669
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,120
King of Asaris and Queen Emma 
hosted many a feast and tourney 

670
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,640
and lavished gold offices and 
honors on their favorites. 

671
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,320
At the center of the merriment, 
cherished and adored by all, was

672
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,400
their only surviving child, 
Princess Rainiera, the little 

673
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,920
girl the Court Singers dubbed 
the Realm's Delight. 

674
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,080
So the tournaments had a 
purpose. 

675
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,320
Not that this was like the saris
and Emma plotting this, but it 

676
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,800
certainly served as purpose to 
help popularize Rainier. 

677
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,160
Which was very important because
at first they didn't plan on her

678
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,960
being queen, but when that 
became the plan, it gave her a 

679
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,040
big head start on already being 
a public figure. 

680
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,240
She was already known and quite 
popular. 

681
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,520
The show didn't quite show that 
level of popularity that she 

682
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,280
had, but regardless, she had 
popularity just being the 

683
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,960
Princess, being part of a a 
popular regime and the book. 

684
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,120
So it was even more emphasized 
that she was very well loved, 

685
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,200
very popular, very liked all 
around. 

686
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,440
Just they liked her. 
The short quote at table 

687
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,960
attorney and at court King 
Viserys thereafter was seldom 

688
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,760
seen without his daughter by his
side. 

689
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,200
So just a constant they're 
constantly together, whether 

690
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,520
it's at tournaments, court, 
table, etcetera. 

691
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,280
So her visibility, very 
important associated with the 

692
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,960
king would have helped ease the 
transition of power had other 

693
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,040
things not happened in between 
now and then. 

694
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,240
So in this time in the book 
version, let's parse this a 

695
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,440
little bit. 
In the book version is when we 

696
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,520
have Kristen Cole making his 
appearance just like he didn't 

697
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,080
show, but we'll we'll talk about
that separately. 

698
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,560
So in the book version, he beats
everybody in the melee, 

699
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,360
including Damon. 
So there's a melee, he wins then

700
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,800
he almost wins the joust. 
He doesn't win the joust, he 

701
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,120
just beats almost everybody. 
He beats Eric and Eric, he beats

702
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,760
Damon, but he loses to Lord 
Mallister, which they didn't. 

703
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:11,680
They didn't have that in the 
show. 

704
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,680
They had said the Mallister on 
show got his head chopped in by 

705
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,080
an axe. 
What they're all fighting after 

706
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,760
like whoa. 
And here's a here's another 

707
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,640
tape. 
Yeah, I really liked that Nina 

708
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,280
pointed out that attorneys in 
general and in this case 

709
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,640
specifically are really great 
opportunity for like upward 

710
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,600
movement in society. 
They provide a lot of 

711
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,200
opportunities for these up and 
coming nights like Christian 

712
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,040
Cole, who don't have any built 
in family fame or court 

713
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,040
connection. 
And so with big wins like this, 

714
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,280
they're able to kind of catapult
and vault themselves onto the 

715
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,280
public eye. 
So yeah, we see that even if 

716
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,960
Kristen didn't win every single 
event at the tourney, in the 

717
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,200
book, he still distinguishes 
himself and shows himself as 

718
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,080
talented, and that sticks with 
people. 

719
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,760
Yeah, enough to win her favor. 
Like, that's a big deal. 

720
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,200
Like he Yeah. 
Like, boom. 

721
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Talk about a boost to his his 
chances at life. 

722
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,920
I could bring up Sir Duncan the 
Tall. 

723
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,000
That guy has a similar move. 
Start it off true. 

724
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,200
Very true, very true. 
And in fact, interesting point 

725
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,560
about Ashford that we'll come 
back to is only Knights were 

726
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,760
allowed to compete there. 
So if Dunk hadn't been 

727
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,040
recognized as a knight, if he 
hadn't gotten proof of that, he 

728
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,000
wouldn't have let him compete. 
That's usually not the case 

729
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,640
though. 
Like here, Kristen Cole was a 

730
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,360
knight. 
But usually it's just open to 

731
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,320
anyone who wants to sign up. 
You can sign up. 

732
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,480
Just you want to hazard your 
life, your your body at this 

733
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,920
contest. 
You got the right equipment, 

734
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,880
you're allowed to. 
Two of the other people that 

735
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,360
Nina brought up too as examples 
of this were Lukamore Strong, 

736
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,560
who was a landless aristocrat 
who won the melee to celebrate 

737
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,600
the opening of the Dragon Pit 
and then was named to the Kings 

738
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,560
Guard a year later. 
Or Ryan Redwine who was only a 

739
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,240
third son who won the 10th 
anniversary tourney named Queen 

740
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,640
Alison the Queen of love and 
Beauty and was then named to the

741
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,080
Kings Guard shortly afterwards. 
So it's really a great way to 

742
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,600
become a member of the Kings 
Guard is to. 

743
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Yeah, who you choose as a queen 
of love and beauty is a big 

744
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,400
deal. 
Like whether you're trying to 

745
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,200
make a statement like he named 
the queen. 

746
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,199
So he's obviously not trying to 
like hone in on her and try to 

747
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:11,960
hook up with her. 
That's that's an honor. 

748
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,199
And and like when Kristen Cole 
in the book version gives gets 

749
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:17,880
the favor from 7 year old 
Rainier, that's obviously just 

750
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,239
celebrating the young Princess. 
That's obviously there's nothing

751
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,960
going on there either. 
But sometimes like Rhaegar 

752
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,560
giving the Laurel to Liana is 
like, what the heck is going on 

753
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,679
here? 
You know, like usually you 

754
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:32,880
celebrate your wife or maybe the
maiden who like a a marriageable

755
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,880
age woman that everyone's trying
to impress, then it's kind of 

756
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,080
obvious. 
But so there's a lot it's 

757
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,040
there's a lot of, a lot of 
interesting things can be done 

758
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,080
here. 
Even if in most tournaments 

759
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,560
anyone can compete. 
Yeah, go to anybody that has a 

760
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,320
suit of honor and a sword and a 
horse and like, it's still a 

761
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,800
little exclusionary. 
Yeah. 

762
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,080
I mean it's. 
Just like, you know, like trying

763
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,000
out for a pro sports team, like 
you could go to their open 

764
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,040
tryouts and you don't need the 
equipment, but it's the same 

765
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,800
thing. 
Like you don't have the physical

766
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,400
capability there, you know. 
Well, I don't. 

767
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,560
Maybe you do no. 
Like even some of the physical 

768
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,480
capability, like if Dunk didn't 
have a horse in his sword, he'd 

769
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,880
still couldn't join that 
tournament. 

770
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,560
You know that's. 
True. 

771
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,000
That's true. 
So you're right, Oprah, mobility

772
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,040
is really important because you 
don't want people to have to 

773
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,760
prove themselves in war only. 
Well, we needed to know he was 

774
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,720
good before the war so we can 
put him in an important 

775
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,320
position. 
You know, like that would have 

776
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,600
been more helpful anyway. 
So yeah, in the show version of 

777
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,160
that, we have Damon beating 
Gwain Hightower, Cole beats 2 

778
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,000
Baratheons and Damon and then 
beats Damon on foot, sort of 

779
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,120
bringing in the melee aspect of 
it. 

780
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,760
That's how they handled that. 
And they both still got these 

781
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,120
favors that Damon gets Allison's
favor, which doesn't happen in 

782
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,840
the in the book, but of course 
Allison's much older in the book

783
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,240
as well. 
Yes, the Damon wouldn't have 

784
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:48,360
gotten her favor. 
Sorry, Zing she. 

785
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,320
Would have been too wise to give
her favorite. 

786
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,640
That's what I'm saying. 
No, sorry, Damon Stan, I'm just 

787
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,600
making a singer. 
What? 

788
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,480
Was Allison even doing then 
because Emma was still alive. 

789
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,320
So Emma in the in book Allison 
would have been she's. 

790
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,920
Just sitting there looking at 
Emma. 

791
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,600
Yeah, she's just chilling. 
Like I'm just hanging out. 

792
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,920
I'm. 
Not married yet, I'm an old 

793
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,280
maid. 
In the show version, the 

794
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,680
participants are extremely 
violent. 

795
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,440
We talked about this a bit at 
the time, but this is another 

796
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,200
time to talk about it under a 
different light. 

797
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,200
They don't know how bad war is. 
They're partly they're so eager 

798
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,400
for it because none of them have
lived through real wars. 

799
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,800
There's been, there's been so 
much peace. 

800
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:26,840
The realm has been at peace for 
a long time. 

801
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,480
And as Rainies and Corlees, the 
two like smartest people in the 

802
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,000
room basically are talking about
it. 

803
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,400
They give us the sword. 
I mean, in the room meeting in 

804
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,800
the box up there, meeting in the
in the viewing box. 

805
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,440
Not like everyone there. 
I don't know about the crowd. 

806
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,840
There's probably some smart 
people there too. 

807
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,680
But they're like the window into
like an intelligent discussion 

808
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,840
of like this is we're just 
having all these people just 

809
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,280
kill each other. 
Like what is this doesn't seem 

810
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,040
right, you know, but it shows 
because they're ready to fight. 

811
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,440
The realm is itching for a 
fight. 

812
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,040
There's a lot of people that 
better want to prove themselves 

813
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:03,760
or have unexpressed angst or 
they don't know what they're 

814
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,360
getting into. 
Killing a maluster at A 

815
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,040
tournament is going to start a 
blood feud like a bracken kill 

816
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,520
in a black one. 
You don't have to already have a

817
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,640
previous feud to to start one 
up. 

818
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,960
If a member of a family kills 
another in a spot like that, 

819
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,520
they're going to call for 
justice or redemption or 

820
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,160
something and people seem to 
have forgotten that. 

821
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,760
I bet a lot of grudges started 
or blood feud started because of

822
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,000
episode 1, but we weren't shown 
that because House of the Dragon

823
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,080
in part is a picture of Royals 
that aren't paying attention to 

824
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,600
much of what's going outside of 
their circle. 

825
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,040
So it's not that those things 
didn't happen, it's that they 

826
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,560
were ignorant of them. 
That's how I see it anyway. 

827
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,040
And that they were less relevant
to the the massive battle of 

828
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,200
Dragons that's coming, right? 
It's it's a squabble between two

829
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,280
houses. 
That's not set up a story, 

830
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,280
right, Right. 
Yeah, I remember when I first 

831
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,800
watched it being like, I don't 
know, almost taken out of it, 

832
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,920
like I just had a hard time 
swallowing that this would 

833
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,040
happen. 
But I've come around quite a bit

834
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,960
because one, I think they were 
trying to show us that this 

835
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,760
wasn't managed very well, that 
thesaurus wasn't making wise 

836
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,480
decisions and other people and 
leadership positions weren't. 

837
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,280
And it's even more believable 
having researched some real 

838
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,600
world tournaments, it the rules 
weren't very well defined and 

839
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,760
that people often did get killed
and so on. 

840
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,160
So even though I think big 
troubles would have come from 

841
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,160
this, it doesn't mean it wasn't 
bad. 

842
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,080
People get themselves into big 
trouble all the time by think 

843
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,000
thoughtless violence. 
I mean, that's plenty of history

844
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,640
of that in the real world. 
Yeah. 

845
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,480
And so then it festers. 
They're not paying attention to 

846
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,200
the grudges that are building 
amongst powerful houses around 

847
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,480
the realm. 
And that is going to have a big 

848
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,720
impact on who takes whose side. 
There's sometimes some people 

849
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:40,360
won't take a certain side 
because their enemy took that 

850
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,720
side. 
Like, well, if the Brackens are 

851
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:43,120
on this side, I'm taking the 
other side. 

852
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,360
I want a chance to take out 
Brackens or Blackwood or 

853
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,240
whatever, you know what I'm 
saying? 

854
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,440
That's their motivation, not the
justice of either side's 'cause 

855
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,520
they're like, well, which side 
is going to allow us to do the 

856
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,200
worst to our, our, you know, our
long standing enemies? 

857
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,520
That's that's they're more of in
line with their thinking. 

858
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,680
Another, I don't know a little 
element of this is it a lot of 

859
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,080
times when people or organizing 
something and haven't really 

860
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,200
thought it all through. 
Like you can think of 1,000,000 

861
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,800
examples how someone like 
identifies a little weakness and

862
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,160
exploits it. 
You know that the people running

863
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,640
this tournament. 
I can even imagine some 

864
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,720
discussion about like what 
weapons might be allowed and all

865
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,920
one assertive person just says 
like, I should be able to use 

866
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,880
whatever weapon I want. 
OK, fine, use whatever you want,

867
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,280
but a warning star is going to 
kill somebody. 

868
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,640
You know what I mean? 
You should not. 

869
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,920
You should not be allowed in the
tournament and or if literally 

870
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,360
still. 
Sorry. 

871
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,000
Yeah, and, and, and people 
cheat, you know, there's ways to

872
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,520
cheat. 
Like we see like the 

873
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,360
manipulation kind of behind the 
scenes and one of the dunk 

874
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,480
tournaments and, and again, even
in real life, remember how I 

875
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,920
said in like the melees, it 
would be like hundreds of people

876
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,600
and they would like have a 
charge Calvary and infantry and 

877
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,840
turn and fight back. 
And some people would chase down

878
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,840
smaller little battles would 
ensue over the course of the 

879
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,360
day. 
There's this one guy who would 

880
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,840
show up with his team and do 
this first charge and then sit 

881
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,400
back and just wait for everyone 
else to get tired and then swoop

882
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,320
in to capture people for ransoms
after the fact. 

883
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,880
It's like, and like, no one 
thought to make a rule about 

884
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,200
that. 
It just seemed like everyone 

885
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,880
would just do the right thing. 
But obviously everyone isn't 

886
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,000
just always going to do the 
right thing. 

887
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,560
Yeah. 
Totally jumping forward to the 

888
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,600
Blacks and Greens tourney. 
King's Landing in the year 111. 

889
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,080
So this is 7 years later. 
This it would be Viserys and 

890
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,240
Allison's 5th wedding 
anniversary in the books. 

891
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,760
In the show would be slightly 
different. 

892
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,600
The timing starting with the 
book version, Cole beats. 

893
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,680
He's still fighting for the 
blacks at this point. 

894
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,720
Cole beats every green champion 
sent against him. 

895
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,360
She just dominates. 
Totally unbelievable. 

896
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,280
Like total the Warrior himself, 
as they might say in Westeros, 

897
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,040
including Gwen Itower again, who
remember his book version, a 

898
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,320
younger son of Otto show version
he's Otto's eldest son. 

899
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,240
Nina points out how this 
tournament illustrates how in a 

900
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,600
highly politically charged 
atmosphere, even ceremonial and 

901
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,240
potentially unconscious courtly 
decisions can carry political 

902
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:04,240
weight. 
She points out that at no point 

903
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:08,120
does fire and blood say Allison 
wore green to be provocative or 

904
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,280
to make a statement. 
Nor does did does it said that 

905
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,920
Rainiera wearing Targaryen red 
and black was meant to be. 

906
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,360
I mean, a Targaryen wearing red 
and black Targaryen colors is 

907
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,280
pretty normal, right? 
Like that should definitely not 

908
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,800
Whoa, Rainier is wearing 
Targaryen colors. 

909
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:28,720
But for some reason, maybe for 
reasons of National Enquirer or 

910
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,920
the other, you know, other types
of situations like that, people 

911
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,240
just want to read in something 
that wasn't there history 

912
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:36,320
records that as well. 
They were taking they were 

913
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,240
declaring their allegiance and 
defining blacks versus greens. 

914
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,160
That may not have been their 
intent. 

915
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,640
It just may have gone that way. 
Like Allison's, like I like 

916
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,640
green. 
And but then everyone took it as

917
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,080
a lesson or as a as a thing to 
do from now on. 

918
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,600
And all of a sudden we've got 
blacks and greens, you know, and

919
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,560
it that may not have been 
anyone's intent. 

920
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,120
It just kind of like, whoa, 
everyone just. 

921
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,560
We must raise our sandals above 
our left hand. 

922
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,280
Gather shoes. 
How much for the gourd? 

923
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:09,040
You know this is his gourd? 
Yes, It all comes back to Monty 

924
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,600
Python. 
It always does. 

925
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,200
But for what it's worth, in the 
show, Allison never said she was

926
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,880
wearing green to make a 
statement either. 

927
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,520
You know. 
No, it was Lorius was like, what

928
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:18,800
is that, a green bore? 
Huh. 

929
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,320
Yeah, Lori. 
It it there that it was Lori? 

930
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,280
Yeah. 
She it was very clear that it 

931
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:25,080
was. 
Yeah. 

932
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,360
Yeah, it did. 
The show did seem to imply that 

933
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,280
she was making a statement and, 
and the way it was presented in 

934
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,840
the show, it did make more sense
for people to realize this is a 

935
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,960
way for me to, yeah. 
Oh, Bear came up to her and was 

936
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,560
like, oh I've doubted you, but 
now I see proof. 

937
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,200
So like 2 people and we had to, 
you know, she made it clear that

938
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,040
it was a statement. 
Totally. 

939
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,000
Yeah. 
So you're you're right. 

940
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,480
Like that was conscious. 
What Allison did in that TV show

941
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,200
scene was conscious. 
But the book version, we don't 

942
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,680
really know whether that's just 
the the maestros just adding 

943
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,920
flair, adding drama to it after 
the fact, it just kind of worked

944
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,280
out that way. 
Or because it doesn't seem all 

945
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,920
that likely. 
They were like, OK, I'm going to

946
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,400
go in green, It's going to make 
a big statement and then from 

947
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:04,960
then on we're all going to wear 
green. 

948
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,840
It was like, I don't know if 
they planned that, you know, it 

949
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,880
doesn't. 
Also, even if Allison did do it 

950
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,840
consciously, it was still on 
everyone else to pick that up. 

951
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,960
You know she didn't send out 
some directive for if you're on 

952
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,080
my side, you better wear green. 
She never said that. 

953
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:18,880
People just did it. 
They. 

954
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,480
Do they want to do be like the 
queen? 

955
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,120
They want to be like their 
leader, You know, like it's, 

956
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,200
it's like fashion statements 
made by their leader are often 

957
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,440
followed. 
It trickled down effective the 

958
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,560
fashion choices. 
It's not easy being green 

959
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,400
though. 
It's not easy being green. 

960
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,960
Maybe it is if if you look like 
Emily Carey though, or Kermit 

961
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,080
the Frog or Kermit the Frog, 
Yeah. 

962
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,680
Anyway, also moving on in the 
show, what happened was Cole's 

963
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,160
switch from black to green sort 
of played out in the moment as 

964
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,280
he's stewing over Rainier's 
offer and feeling rejected. 

965
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,160
He sort of switches during that 
first event in the books. 

966
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,920
It's a little slower that change
by the tournament three years 

967
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,280
later, which is Rainier and 
Lanor's wedding in the book. 

968
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,640
So that lines up again. 
Cole has switched to the greens 

969
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,000
at that point. 
And here's a quote to take us 

970
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,400
into that. 
In 114 AC, Princess Raniera and 

971
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,920
the newly united Sarah Laynor 
were wed and as is the custom, 

972
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,320
attorney was held in 
celebration. 

973
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,400
At this tourney. 
Raniera had a new champion in 

974
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,560
Break Bones, while Sarah Kristen
for the first time, wore the 

975
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,520
favor of Queen Allison. 
So I noticed the phrase there as

976
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,120
was the custom. 
So yeah. 

977
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,360
So I guess like which custom are
they referring to? 

978
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,880
The when the Princess or the the
heir to the throne takes the 

979
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,240
gets married. 
I'm not sure. 

980
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,880
I mean they celebrate so many 
weddings with tournaments, so 

981
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,640
I'm not exactly sure which 
custom they're referring to. 

982
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,400
But still. 
A tourney is the custom is what 

983
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,520
they're saying here, and I can't
exactly pinpoint it, but it's 

984
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,680
still very telling. 
So Cole again dominates. 

985
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,080
This is when he breaks Harwin's 
bones and mortally wounds 

986
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,160
Joffrey. 
So Kristen Cole's nickname 

987
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:06,600
nickname should be Break Bones. 
Yeah, exactly. 

988
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:07,280
You got it. 
Yeah. 

989
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:08,640
BBBB. 
So. 

990
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,600
Many BS yes, Nina writes. 
Kristen's actions speak to how 

991
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,040
the violence inherent attorneys 
can be useful for covering up 

992
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,520
politically, dynastically or 
personally motivated woundings. 

993
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:27,000
The the Peck says he fought in a
black fury trying to kill people

994
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,960
on Team Black basically and and 
succeeding. 

995
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,240
He didn't kill Harwin. 
He may have wanted to, but he 

996
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,920
did kill Joffrey. 
But yeah, like no one could call

997
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:36,520
him out. 
This was We would discuss how 

998
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:37,920
Kristen got away with what he 
did on the show. 

999
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,520
It was not quite so simple. 
But here it's easy to understand

1000
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,880
because it happened in a 
tournament where people get hurt

1001
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,840
all the time. 
It's hard to say that, oh, he 

1002
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,360
tried too hard. 
Like what? 

1003
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,400
I mean, what law did he break? 
What rule did he break? 

1004
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:54,560
Blood feud could happen against 
house coal, but house coal is is

1005
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,240
nothing right? 
They're they're not A and blood 

1006
00:45:57,240 --> 00:45:59,240
feuds against Kristen Cole mean 
fighting him. 

1007
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,880
It's just not a you don't really
want to do that either. 

1008
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,760
I mean, some people are willing 
to, but it's not a not a simple 

1009
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,920
thing to endeavour. 
So a lot happens there too, like

1010
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,160
that. 
That's that's obviously a big 

1011
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,600
deal. 
There's the, the politics is 

1012
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,360
playing out like so much of what
we saw set up the war that 

1013
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,360
happens in the Dance of the 
Dragons is stuff like this. 

1014
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,000
And it happens when they all 
come together. 

1015
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,160
And one thing we kept seeing 
repeatedly on House of the 

1016
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,560
Dragon is like every time the 
two families come together, bad 

1017
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,800
stuff happens. 
And afterwards they're like, we 

1018
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,960
need to separate again. 
I need to go back to dragon 

1019
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,360
stone or we need to keep these 
kids apart. 

1020
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,280
I just just, it just keeps not 
working. 

1021
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,560
And but it was already happening
with these people. 

1022
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,280
These non family members were 
already fighting each other like

1023
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,720
over Rainier or over homophobia 
or whatever was motivating them.

1024
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,520
Something I meant to say when we
did that episode about Viserys 

1025
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,080
is it That's one thing that he 
should have done when these 

1026
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,480
conflicts happen, instead of get
everyone in the same room 

1027
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,760
together when they're all at 
odds and tensions are high, get 

1028
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,760
them in separate rooms. 
Talk to them individually. 

1029
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,120
That's really funny, by the way,
it mentions that Sir, Sir Lanor,

1030
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,000
newly knighted. 
Yeah, because they, he, he 

1031
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,360
wasn't a warrior. 
Book version of Lanor isn't a 

1032
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,120
warrior. 
And so they were like, well, we 

1033
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,440
don't want him. 
We don't want the Princess to 

1034
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:15,480
marry someone who isn't a 
knight. 

1035
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,320
So we'll just give him a 
knighting real quick. 

1036
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,160
He did nothing to earn it. 
But to clarify a little bit, the

1037
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,200
show versus book version there 
the rather than one event, 

1038
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,120
there's 2 versions, 111 and 114,
two different tournaments where 

1039
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,920
these things played out. 
And of course, as you may 

1040
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,280
recall, the show version, there 
was planned to be 7 days of 

1041
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,960
feasting and tournaments that 
was interrupted by the killing 

1042
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,120
of Joffrey and all that was 
cancelled. 

1043
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,360
And that had a pretty big impact
as well. 

1044
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,640
It really changed the trajectory
of the Targaryen Valerian 

1045
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,560
alliance. 
Like it was going to be a very 

1046
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,880
locked down, like Viserys 
envisioned the second age of 

1047
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,680
Dragons, all these big plans for
what this alliance would mean. 

1048
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,200
And then it kind of just like, 
yeah, I guess we're, I guess 

1049
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,040
we're allies now. 
We're married together. 

1050
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,840
And it just didn't, it didn't 
really proceed like they didn't 

1051
00:47:58,840 --> 00:47:59,960
really proceed as friends from 
there. 

1052
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:03,080
Like they weren't enemies, but 
they weren't like hanging out a 

1053
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,760
lot and having each other's 
backs. 

1054
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,480
And it's like, uh, we're narrow 
now. 

1055
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,280
We have in laws we're not very 
happy with. 

1056
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,480
So that eventually did come 
around, but it started off real 

1057
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,680
bumpy. 
And it was because of these 

1058
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,640
extracurricular things happening
at what wasn't exactly a 

1059
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,080
tournament book version was, but
it was a tournament environment 

1060
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:20,680
where people were brought 
together and A tournament was 

1061
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,920
expected to happen. 
Let's go to Ashford Meadow in 

1062
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,680
the year 2 O 9. 
Jumping forward quite a bit. 

1063
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,120
Now remember, Lord Ashford had a
purpose here. 

1064
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,560
He wanted to find a husband for 
his daughter. 

1065
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,200
He wanted to get the highest 
rank person he could for his 

1066
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:36,800
daughter. 
And he also wanted to get in 

1067
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,280
good with the Royals, which may 
have implied that's who he 

1068
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,800
wanted to find a husband for his
daughter from. 

1069
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,560
If not then, but maybe a future 
marriage down the line for his 

1070
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,640
family. 
Because in the reach in this 

1071
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,000
era, there wasn't a lot 
separating a lot of these 

1072
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,400
houses. 
It was just a lot of pretty 

1073
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,040
powerful mid range houses. 
And the times had changed. 

1074
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,800
The Black Fire Rebellion had 
happened. 

1075
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:59,920
The Dragons weren't around 
anymore. 

1076
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:02,600
Deron the Second was a different
sort of king. 

1077
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,760
He was trying to do things less 
Targaryen. 

1078
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,040
Y right he was. 
He didn't like the incest 

1079
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,080
marriages. 
He he was a follower of the 

1080
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,400
seven pretty devoutly. 
He took a lot of lessons from 

1081
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,000
Bay Lord the Blessed, but he was
getting up there in age. 

1082
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,440
So amidst all these changes, 
there was opportunities for the 

1083
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,640
ambitious Lord, which Lord 
Ashford seemed to be. 

1084
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,160
He's thinking, all right, when 
Daron dies, there's going to be 

1085
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,280
a new king. 
A new king means fresh 

1086
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,920
alliances, fresh offices, fresh 
counselors, all this other 

1087
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,960
stuff. 
He wants to be a part of that 

1088
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,520
Lord Ashford did. 
He wants his family to be a part

1089
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,480
of this new wave, of this new 
period, this new era. 

1090
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:40,800
Whenever the new king takes 
over. 

1091
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,200
He wants to be a part of that 
new swing of power. 

1092
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,360
You basically to have the king 
slash Prince as a captive 

1093
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,720
audience. 
You're hosting the tournament. 

1094
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,160
You get to talk to them. 
You get to bring your business 

1095
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,760
to their attention. 
It's not so simple to do that. 

1096
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,440
If you're someone like Tywin, 
you've got that King's ear 

1097
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,240
because you're his hand, right? 
But like, how often, good Lord, 

1098
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:01,560
did Ned talk to Robert? 
Like, hardly ever. 

1099
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,240
If he'd wanted to talk to him, 
he could have made a, you know, 

1100
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,520
gotten to him. 
But if he sends a letter to him,

1101
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,280
like it's going to go through 
myself's hands and then maybe 

1102
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,880
Cersei sees it it, it's a pretty
big deal. 

1103
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,680
We take these things for granted
in our era because we have 

1104
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,840
phones and stuff. 
But like, it's hard for nobles 

1105
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,360
to talk to each other without 
attracting attention. 

1106
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,120
Especially hard to talk to the 
king who's being pulled in a lot

1107
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,280
of directions at once. 
So spend a lot of money, invite 

1108
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,320
the the Princess, get a chance 
to talk to them, you know, try 

1109
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,760
to get in good with them, 
befriend them. 

1110
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,240
It's it's an in route. 
Even Ned talking to Robert like 

1111
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:37,760
they're friends, right? 
Like imagine how many letters 

1112
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,920
the king gets. 
Robert might say, all right, let

1113
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,960
me read Ned's. 
But most other Lords, he just 

1114
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,320
doesn't care. 
He just doesn't want to hear it.

1115
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,360
He'll just send it off to 
someone else, you know? 

1116
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:49,160
You're totally right. 
Yeah. 

1117
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,000
So that's one thing that maybe 
we need to keep in mind, that 

1118
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,120
you may have a tournament just 
to speak to one or two specific 

1119
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,760
people. 
The whole thing might just be 

1120
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,520
about getting one or two 
particular visitors and getting 

1121
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,480
to talk to them. 
He probably didn't expect Darren

1122
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:04,560
to come. 
Like we said, Darren was up 

1123
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,880
there in age. 
He'd given him a lot of the rule

1124
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,760
over to Baylor. 
But he did expect Baylor to 

1125
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,720
come, and Baylor did come. 
Of course, it all backfired 

1126
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:15,160
horribly because Baylor died but
didn't go the way he wanted at 

1127
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,480
all. 
But that you can see that is 

1128
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,560
what he wanted. 
Nina's the one who reminded us 

1129
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,920
that Lord Ashford was trying to 
impress Baylor by being strict 

1130
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,840
about the entrance thing, which 
probably Baylor didn't care 

1131
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,840
about that Baylor was more 
Baylor's not all highfalutin, so

1132
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,000
I don't think he that meant 
anything to him. 

1133
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,360
Positive. 
It may have even been a 

1134
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,920
negative. 
Maybe he just didn't care, but 

1135
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,240
it wasn't a plus. 
So trying to make it more fancy 

1136
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:41,440
was not something was not a good
way to impress Baylor, but he 

1137
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,760
was trying to impress Baylor. 
That was still, that was his 

1138
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,360
intent. 
That was his ambition. 

1139
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,080
And it's all trying to get 
embroil himself with the royal 

1140
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,160
family or, or to make those 
connections, Nina writes. 

1141
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,840
It may have seemed like a good 
means of reinforcing royal 

1142
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,440
authority in the Reach. 
From Baron's point of view, it 

1143
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,640
seems likely the Damon Blackfyre
may have drawn some or much of 

1144
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,120
his support from the Reach. 
The Reach was a place where 

1145
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,160
Damon had his the core of his 
support. 

1146
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,480
So paying attention to this 
realm, paying attention to the 

1147
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,280
Reach and keeping, you know, 
being friendly with it, making 

1148
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,280
sure this doesn't happen again, 
probably good policy saying, 

1149
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,880
yeah, keep these guys married 
and so even, which might be what

1150
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,320
Lord Ash was thinking is like 
playing 3D chess, right? 

1151
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,720
OK, They need to play nice with 
the Reach, which might mean they

1152
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:30,120
want to marry some Reach houses.
Why not mine? 

1153
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:31,840
Right? 
And they've only got so many 

1154
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,400
Princess and princesses. 
There's only so many 

1155
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,600
possibilities here. 
So get ahead of the game, get 

1156
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,880
involved once again. 
Obviously backfired horribly, 

1157
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,520
but wasn't the worst plan. 
You know, from his perspective. 

1158
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,600
It's, it's an interesting 
thought, like how you said that 

1159
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,400
you might hold a tournament just
to be able to get in touch with 

1160
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,920
one or two people, especially 
the king or some important 

1161
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,800
person that might be otherwise 
very difficult. 

1162
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,040
And kind of how Nina's also 
pointing out that the king maybe

1163
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,200
wanted to have a presence at 
this tournament. 

1164
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,400
It goes both ways. 
Like they get to go have contact

1165
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,800
with other people at the 
tournament and not just the 

1166
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,880
person running the tournament 
and the person they're trying to

1167
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,000
get in contact with, but other 
separate people get to have 

1168
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,440
interactions they wouldn't 
normally have. 

1169
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,840
It becomes more and more 
justifiable for people to come 

1170
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,040
and visit and have these 
meetings and make these I I 

1171
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,480
mean, I can even imagine like, 
you know, smaller Lords and 

1172
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,000
houses and whatnot still want to
arrange marriages and still, you

1173
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,680
know, but maybe have debts owed 
and yeah, etcetera, etcetera. 

1174
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:33,920
You. 
Know or like Kyle the cat was 

1175
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,560
looking to find a new Lord to 
swear his sword to. 

1176
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,200
Like that's another plan that 
backfired horribly. 

1177
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:43,080
His plan was terrible, but you 
know, Dunk was there to make a 

1178
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:44,680
name for himself and he ended up
meeting Egg. 

1179
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,280
You know, that's very likely 
event, but Dunk meeting, What's 

1180
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,120
his name? 
The the. 

1181
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,440
Glendon. 
Ball you met him like that's 

1182
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,440
more that kind of meeting his 
name right? 

1183
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,240
Glendon London flowers dash Ball
he it's like the third time I've

1184
00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:58,840
forgotten his name. 
I have a mental block against 

1185
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,680
Glendon Ball's name Glendon 
flowers. 

1186
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,360
So he like, but that kind of 
meeting where two hedge nights 

1187
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,640
come friends, that kind of thing
would a lot more likely to 

1188
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,120
happen at something like a 
tournament like like Ashford 

1189
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,240
Meadow or or even white walls 
where you just wandering around,

1190
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:15,960
you're not likely to find a 
whole bunch of like minded 

1191
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,600
people all at once. 
Like hedge Knights are all out 

1192
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:18,920
in the world. 
They got to go find work here 

1193
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,920
and there. 
They can't be congregating at 

1194
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:22,840
places where there isn't work. 
But that's why they're there. 

1195
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,560
They're there to maybe find work
or or elevate their status. 

1196
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,080
The reason is a good writing 
device because it's in addition 

1197
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,640
to like introducing characters 
without contrived dialogue and 

1198
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,560
setting up setting a stage for 
stuff. 

1199
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,200
But it also can like, get 
pairings. 

1200
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,000
You know it can. 
It can launch new stories. 

1201
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
Let's talk about White Walls, 

1202
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:42,800
which happened three years 
later. 

1203
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,680
This is when the intrigue 
component of a tournament is 

1204
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,640
turned up to 11. 
As we know, this was commonly 

1205
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,080
referred to as the second Black 
Fire rebellion. 

1206
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,680
Really, it was just a 
tournament, though. 

1207
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,400
It's not a good look when your 
rebellion is really more in the 

1208
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,120
category of tournaments. 
It's the second Black Fire 

1209
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,040
tournaments, yeah, had really 
introduced to us to a lot of 

1210
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:03,760
different things about 
tournaments that we have maybe 

1211
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,920
thought about a lot. 
The the cheating and gambling 

1212
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,720
aspect of it. 
That Sir Uthor under Leaf, the 

1213
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,640
underside for under Leaf, yes, 
introduced us to the the losing 

1214
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,680
on purpose, things like that, 
which totally makes sense that 

1215
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:16,160
that's going to happen. 
Like, Oh yeah, of course that 

1216
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,080
happens, you know, But if you 
hadn't thought about it, you may

1217
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:19,760
not have, your brain didn't go 
there. 

1218
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,560
It may not have occurred to you 
and this is something that I 

1219
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,080
find really interesting. 
One thing this may have already 

1220
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,400
occurred to some of you all as 
we're talking about why people 

1221
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,080
gather and finding like minded 
individuals and making friends. 

1222
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,800
It's like, yeah, tournaments are
kind of like conventions. 

1223
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,000
They're really other you. 
You gather people together. 

1224
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,440
They're all like minded in a lot
of ways. 

1225
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,160
They come together to to meet 
people or to do business. 

1226
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,000
You make unexpected connections.
Some people have other agendas 

1227
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,240
while they're there. 
Some conventions have mock 

1228
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:52,480
tournaments fighting like with 
foam noodles and you know, like 

1229
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,360
sets setting up athletic events 
or competitions or. 

1230
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,320
Or, you know, like the SCA, if 
you don't know the Society of 

1231
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,680
Creative Monetarisms, they have 
like tournaments in it. 

1232
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,800
It's the whole thing. 
And it's like all since we 

1233
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,280
there's sort of like recreating 
these old tournaments from the 

1234
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,360
old day. 
But really, the tournaments from

1235
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,400
the old days are more similar to
these modern things than you 

1236
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,280
might think, that there is this 
sort of role-playing element 

1237
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,320
involved in them. 
And they weren't really trying 

1238
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,600
to kill each other. 
And you are getting together for

1239
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,640
social reasons, not just to 
practice combat. 

1240
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,400
And the costumes are all part of
it and on and on. 

1241
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:23,720
So. 
Yeah. 

1242
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:25,160
And the. 
Costumes are all willing to get 

1243
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,200
into that too, because, yeah, 
not just a convention, but a 

1244
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,880
convention where cosplay is 
prominent. 

1245
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,880
Because, for example, at White 
Walls you have Damon. 

1246
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,760
The second Blackfire cosplaying 
is John the Fiddler and a couple

1247
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,520
other people who is, who are not
what they say they are. 

1248
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,520
Right. 
And a bunch of people cosplaying

1249
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,040
as loyalists when they're really
blackfires, etcetera. 

1250
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:45,640
But no. 
Bloodravens guy his. 

1251
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,880
Bloodraven cosplaying is the 
remaining plum. 

1252
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,240
You're totally right. 
Yeah, right. 

1253
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,160
So there's all these examples of
people doing that or depending 

1254
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,800
on who you think Glendon's 
father is, Is he cosplaying as a

1255
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,760
ball or is he really? 
Is he really a ball? 

1256
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,000
Yeah, Anyway. 
His name is Glendon Ball. 

1257
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:06,160
He will have justice. 
So it shows this, a lot of these

1258
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,280
elements there of all at once at
a tournament that's not really a

1259
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,680
tournament that the people on 
the outside know what's really 

1260
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:18,160
going on there. 
And what I discovered, this is 

1261
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,000
something we've talked about 
tournaments off and on a few 

1262
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,720
different times. 
But what I didn't realize is 

1263
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,480
over time, like you said, Sean, 
jousting wasn't how they 

1264
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:26,920
started. 
They started as more of a melee,

1265
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:28,840
right? 
And then it became jousting 

1266
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,160
became the more popular aspect 
of it. 

1267
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,760
As tournaments became more 
fancy, more money became pumped 

1268
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,360
into them. 
They became more and more about 

1269
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,280
the nobility. 
They became more and more about 

1270
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,280
the nobility. 
So which is which is, you know, 

1271
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,760
they kind of took it over. 
They became like a big party 

1272
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,480
where they literally did 
cosplay. 

1273
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,480
They would celebrate legendary 
eras or figures. 

1274
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,560
People would dress up like 
historical figures at these 

1275
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,400
tournaments. 
Edward the third of England had 

1276
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,200
lots of tournaments, more than 
one of which in which people 

1277
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:00,840
dressed up like Knights of the 
round table. 

1278
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,520
So you got Knights showing up as
Lancelot and King Arthur and 

1279
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,560
Galahad. 
And you might think, well, 

1280
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,200
that's, that's funny that they 
did that. 

1281
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,920
That wasn't even that long ago. 
No, actually, I, I say Edward 

1282
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,920
the 3rd, that's like 13 
hundreds. 

1283
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,840
So King Arthur was 700, seven, 
800 years old by that time. 

1284
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,360
So it was already a old thing 
already a legend already. 

1285
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:27,280
Well, way relegated to legend by
that point, not to past history,

1286
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,000
Nina writes. 
And 1 Edward was very fond of. 

1287
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,800
He named his second surviving 
son Lionel after Sir Lionel, 

1288
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,640
cousin of Lancelot, a role he 
himself had played in 

1289
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,680
tournament. 
And he created the still extant 

1290
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,480
Order of the Garter, inspired by
the Round Table. 

1291
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,600
Yeah, the Order of the Garter 
still exists as a social thing 

1292
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,840
in England, I guess. 
I don't know much about it, but 

1293
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,040
yeah, so, yeah, totally cosplay 
conventions. 

1294
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,520
It's so, so funny. 
The thing about it, the more 

1295
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,120
things change, the more they 
stay the same. 

1296
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,320
Like mythology and storytelling,
we're big parts of these things 

1297
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,800
and. 
I've forgotten that the the 

1298
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,960
characters involved, but there 
was even one tournament where 

1299
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,280
someone had like constructed 
like a wooden tower. 

1300
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,200
It was rolled out that they 
could come out of and do like a 

1301
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,440
tower challenge or something or 
Yeah, yeah. 

1302
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,760
Tower defense back in the day 
yeah. 

1303
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,520
So Nina also writes as well as 
allegorical themes like Henry 

1304
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,320
the Eighth jousting as quote Sir
loyal heart supposedly sent by 

1305
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,600
the queen, noble renown from the
fictional Kingdom of noble 

1306
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,880
Hearts during the 1511 11 
tournament to celebrate the 

1307
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,560
birth of Henry, Duke of 
Cornwall, who this had a bit of 

1308
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,600
a Viserys vibe where Henry, Duke
of Cornwall, the son didn't see 

1309
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,480
his. 
I forget how when he died, he 

1310
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,160
didn't die as an infinite, I 
don't think, but he didn't live 

1311
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,400
very long. 
So then there's the first, the 

1312
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,000
first ever round table 
tournament was held by John 

1313
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,040
Diblin of Cyprus. 
You know, Cyprus is that island 

1314
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,600
in the Eastern Mediterranean. 
This is a there's a little bit 

1315
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,360
of a funny connection here. 
He was the son of Baillian of 

1316
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,520
Ebelin AKA Legolas. 
Yes, Orlando Bloom played 

1317
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,800
Baillian of Ebelin in Kingdom of
Heaven, a movie a lot of y'all 

1318
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,920
have seen. 
Baillian was also known 

1319
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,560
historically as Berrison the 
Younger. 

1320
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,760
Well not quite Barristan 
Berrison. 

1321
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:16,400
John the Ebelin son of Baillian 
AKA Legolas took Templar vows 

1322
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,320
when he was in ill health 
knowing he was going to die. 

1323
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,560
So he wanted to enter heaven as 
a Templar. 80 years later, the 

1324
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,520
last Templar Grandmaster was 
burned at the stake by King 

1325
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,560
Philip the Fair, and then there 
were no more Templars. 

1326
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,840
King Philip the Fair was also 
known as the Iron King. 

1327
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:38,160
King Philip the Fair was cursed 
supposedly by this Templar 

1328
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,600
Grandmaster as he was being 
burned at the stake, giving us 

1329
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,960
the accursed King's novels, 
which George R Martin and myself

1330
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,280
and Nina have recommended many, 
many times, written by Maurice 

1331
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,760
Drewan, because it kind of did 
seem like they were cursed the 

1332
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,560
way it went. 
It may have been just something 

1333
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,960
they because it may have been. 
It's probably more retrospect 

1334
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:58,800
thing. 
We're like that. 

1335
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,200
Those descendants were cursed. 
Let's insert a curse into the 

1336
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:02,560
mouth of this temple, our 
grandmaster. 

1337
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,320
Anyway, it's great though. 
That's a really great story and 

1338
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,960
any excuse to bring that one 
back around. 

1339
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:10,400
And there was a very politically
charged tournament in the 6th 

1340
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,880
book of that novel called The 
Lily and the Lion and gives 

1341
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,320
another example of politics and 
tournaments coming together. 

1342
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,200
Of course, we talked about 
tournaments a lot in our Dunkin 

1343
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,440
Egg coverage as well, so I'll re
recommend that. 

1344
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,120
One last little interjection 
here. 

1345
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,240
When we're talking about some 
real life tournament stuff, it 

1346
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,360
wasn't all fun and games. 
There was one tournament in 

1347
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,040
Germany where 80 people died 
from heat exhaustion. 

1348
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,160
What? 
Good. 

1349
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,120
They're all stuffed in this hot 
armor and there's a hot day and 

1350
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,120
a run around doing combat and 
they're probably a bunch of 

1351
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:40,640
idiots. 80 people died. 
Yeah, so y'all, when people die 

1352
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:46,040
in tournaments in the TV shows, 
I don't think they've shown 

1353
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,040
anything in a tournament that 
rises to the level of violence 

1354
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:50,680
in real world tournaments. 
Let's put it that way. 

1355
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,160
Like we haven't had 80 people 
die in a tournament on Game of 

1356
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,960
Thrones TV. 
We have heard of the of 80 

1357
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,960
people dying in a melee in the 
North. 

1358
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,520
So that level does exist. 
But that's because George 

1359
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,080
understands that you can't have 
that many people wailing on each

1360
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,120
other not have people die. 
Yep, Yep, Yep. 

1361
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,160
Especially if they're using real
weapons. 

1362
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:18,480
Yes, yes, there's so many small 
examples of things that happened

1363
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,120
at tournaments that we could 
throw out there as examples that

1364
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,960
don't require us to discuss the 
entire tournaments, but it still

1365
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,760
shows how many. 
Once again, I prefer the term 

1366
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,280
extracurricular activities 
because extracurricular is such 

1367
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,240
a wide umbrella. 
It describes so many things, 

1368
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,280
whether it's murder, whether 
it's underhanded, or whether 

1369
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,680
it's a case like this where 
aiming the Dragon Knight entered

1370
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,360
the tournament, as is Mystery 
Knight, to declare his sister 

1371
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,480
the Queen of Love and Beauty 
because he knew his brother 

1372
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,720
Aegon the Unworthy was going to 
name one of his mistresses the 

1373
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,080
Queen of Love and Beauty to 
embarrass their sister, so he 

1374
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,080
entered just to protect her 
honor. 

1375
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,640
Good man, that Aimon the Dragon 
Knight. 

1376
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:01,320
That didn't do anything to curb 
the rumors that Aimon and Nerys 

1377
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,800
were sleeping together, which 
Aegon was happy to foist on the 

1378
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,480
realm and push the idea that 
Darren wasn't really his son. 

1379
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:12,120
But that also is another story 
and goes well outside the 

1380
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,560
auspices of tournaments. 
But it spills over into the 

1381
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,960
tournaments too, as we see they 
take their drama everywhere, 

1382
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,360
even in the fun times. 
I like thinking about the idea 

1383
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,280
of Queen of Love and Beauty. 
Did you read anything about 

1384
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,720
this? 
Not that particular title, 

1385
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:26,960
although that particular title 
is also apparently been used 

1386
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,960
historically in a few spots 
where women became a greater 

1387
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,600
part of tournaments as time, as 
the chivalry and pageantry 

1388
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,720
elements of tournaments 
increased over time, became a 

1389
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,360
part of real world tournaments. 
As well as naming like a maid of

1390
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,560
honor or the bad Different terms
for it. 

1391
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,080
But did you read anything wrong 
about this, Sean? 

1392
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,600
I did and they're 
understandable. 

1393
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:48,680
There's not quite as much 
knowledge on this because 

1394
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,920
history tends to be a little 
more male centric, especially 

1395
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,320
when it comes to like combat 
games, you know, but it the idea

1396
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,560
that the tournaments were 
growing beyond just these guys 

1397
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,640
practicing with their weapons, 
that it was just sort of court 

1398
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:04,400
being held and it was this 
opportunity for socialization 

1399
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,720
and even the same type of thing 
we see in Game of Thrones that 

1400
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,520
there's what someone wears, you 
know, like signals are being 

1401
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:15,280
sent and deals are being made, 
you know, friendships are being 

1402
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,280
formed. 
This happens among the women as 

1403
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,200
much as the men and maybe even 
is more of an opportunity for 

1404
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:25,000
the women than relatively than 
the men, because even otherwise,

1405
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,120
the men still do have 
opportunities that women don't 

1406
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,400
get sense when it comes to 
traveling and interacting and 

1407
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,880
making a name for themselves on 
a battlefield and stuff like 

1408
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,360
that. 
It it just became maybe, you 

1409
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,960
know, as important to women as 
men that as a social event, 

1410
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:40,480
that's. 
Interesting. 

1411
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,520
Yeah and, and and now that you 
mentioned it, thinking about 

1412
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,600
House of the Dragon, it was very
much framed, more so than anyone

1413
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,760
through the eyes of Rainier and 
Allison's. 

1414
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,360
And then occasionally we we went
over to Corliss and Rainey's and

1415
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,440
the saris gets whispered to or 
we see the combatants up close, 

1416
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,200
but really the combatants are 
just focused on each other. 

1417
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,520
They're not having any dialogue.
The people talking about it more

1418
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:00,960
so than anyone was Allison and 
Rainier. 

1419
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:02,360
So it was kind of through their 
eyes and. 

1420
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,720
And frankly, at the episode 4 
and Season 1 of Game of Thrones,

1421
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:07,520
a lot of it's through Santa's 
point of view. 

1422
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,480
I mean, certainly Ned's sitting 
there and little fingers trying 

1423
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,480
to talk to her. 
And Ned's like, take your hand 

1424
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,720
off my daughter, you know, all 
this other stuff, gambling and 

1425
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,680
talking about that. 
But yeah, anyway, we're coming 

1426
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:17,760
to that tournament later, so 
we'll talk about it when we get 

1427
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:19,000
to it. 
But yeah, the Queen of Love and 

1428
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,720
beauty is very interesting. 
It's also, it also really puts a

1429
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,680
face on an important event, 
especially if it's like a peace 

1430
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,200
deal or an alliance where 
they're where both sides have a 

1431
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,240
lot invested in this working 
out, getting the public to buy 

1432
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,440
in on it is a pretty big part of
that. 

1433
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,720
Like they're like, yay, we're 
happy about this alliance. 

1434
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,600
And we all know that putting a 
pretty face on something can 

1435
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,840
help with that. 
There's a reason why newscasters

1436
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,440
and people like spokespeople are
often more attractive than the 

1437
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,520
average person. 
This is very much like that. 

1438
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,120
They want to put their hopes on 
a person. 

1439
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,560
You want to attach some beauty 
and charisma to an idea that you

1440
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,120
have a lot of hope in. 
You know, it helps, I think to 

1441
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,560
attaching. 
It's like attaching a symbol to 

1442
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,480
an event like Santa Claus to 
Halloween or to Halloween. 

1443
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,480
I'm thinking of dressing up like
Santa Claus to Christmas, for 

1444
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,560
example. 
Like that puts a a friendly face

1445
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,560
on it, right? 
Like even not everybody believes

1446
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,520
in Christmas or Santa, but that 
is kind of the point of Santa 

1447
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,240
Claus is to besides to sell 
toys, it's also there to. 

1448
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,320
I'm just listening to an NPR bit
about how insurance is kind of 

1449
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:25,280
like a boring, even kind of dark
topic business or whatever. 

1450
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,400
And so they're one of the most 
think of think of all the 

1451
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:29,960
different characters attached 
to. 

1452
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,280
You know Gecko? 
And Gecko and the Mayhem guy and

1453
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:37,220
that insurance is like made a 
big effort to attach, quote UN 

1454
01:06:37,220 --> 01:06:40,040
quote, a friendly face or a 
humorous element to this 

1455
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,000
business that they're trying to 
market, you know? 

1456
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,400
Yeah. 
I maybe, maybe Boeing and 

1457
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,680
Raytheon should start putting, 
making pink missiles and you 

1458
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,000
know, like putting rainbow flags
on there. 

1459
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,120
Let's talk about Viserys's 
birth. 

1460
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,960
Let's jump forward to a Song of 
Ice and Fire time period. 

1461
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,520
Now, I went into marry Cersei to
Rhaegar. 

1462
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:58,960
We established that that's well 
known. 

1463
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,080
But remember folks, this was 
also the Maggie the Frog 

1464
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,280
incident happened here and 
Cersei went to see Maggie 

1465
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:09,680
because her aunt Jenna spilled 
the beans and told her you're 

1466
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,160
going to be marrying Rhaegar. 
Get ready, get ready, young 

1467
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,160
youngster. 
Shouldn't have told her that one

1468
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,360
because this didn't happen and 
she had to be disappointed. 

1469
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,120
But she because she got so 
excited, she went to Maggie and 

1470
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,040
was like, all right, tell me how
many kids I'm going to have with

1471
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:23,440
the king. 
And that led to all this awful 

1472
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:24,640
stuff. 
And then she murders her own 

1473
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,880
friend, which can't blame anyone
but her for that one, even 

1474
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,200
though she's just a kid. 
It's like, damn, Cersei killing 

1475
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:31,640
people when you're 10. 
Yikes. 

1476
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:33,640
Now Tywin is very open about 
this. 

1477
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:38,600
He he doesn't use wealth on the 
down low and say it's being 

1478
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,360
sneaky. 
He's like, no, we put our wealth

1479
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:44,800
in people's faces and show off 
as much as possible because it 

1480
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,840
shows how wealthy we are and 
reminds him how powerful we are.

1481
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,880
He he flat out says this 
multiple times. 

1482
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,760
It's not subtle from him and he 
doesn't want it to be subtle. 

1483
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,280
The point is to shove it in 
people's faces. 

1484
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,320
So that's that's not very 
subtle. 

1485
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,160
So this is likely what happened 
here. 

1486
01:07:58,160 --> 01:07:59,880
We we talked about this a while 
back. 

1487
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:03,200
Nina suggested that sure is 
interesting that Rhaegar, all of

1488
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,240
these Knights that were in 
Tywin's service and Tywin's 

1489
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,360
uncles are, are brothers rather 
all of them lost to Rhaegar. 

1490
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,280
Now, Rhaegar was good at 
jousting, but did they lose? 

1491
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,040
They really try their hardest, 
you know what I mean? 

1492
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,359
Like, I don't know about this. 
Rhaegar did eventually lose to 

1493
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:21,200
Arthur Dayne because no one's 
going to tell him to lose on 

1494
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:22,560
purpose, and I don't know that 
he would. 

1495
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,359
It might have tipped, it might 
have tipped, tipped the hat, 

1496
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,960
tipped the can't given away the 
fact that things are being 

1497
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:29,880
thrown to him since Arthur Dayne
lost him. 

1498
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,240
Like the others are believable, 
but if you throw in an 

1499
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,319
unbelievable one then you start 
to question the others. 

1500
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:38,520
And of course, it's unlikely 
Tywin could have gotten Arthur 

1501
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,120
to lose on purpose anyway. 
But maybe, I don't know, you 

1502
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:45,040
know, So he was just all in on 
this. 

1503
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,000
It's like I said, the whole 
point of this tournament was to 

1504
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,319
was to win this over. 
And well, here's The funny 

1505
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:52,760
thing, though, the turn just to 
prove how much this wasn't about

1506
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:54,479
what it says. 
It's about the tournament to 

1507
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,920
celebrate the saris's birth in 
276 AC. 

1508
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,520
You know who didn't go? 
The saris? 

1509
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,240
The baby who was just born. 
He was not there, nor was his 

1510
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,960
mother. 
And Aries didn't want to go at 

1511
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,479
first. 
Aries was had to be convinced to

1512
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,640
go, like, they're holding this 
this event for their family and 

1513
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,560
like, none of them wanted to go.
So he goes. 

1514
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:16,279
And, you know, it goes a certain
way. 

1515
01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:18,720
And a lot of people probably 
figured this out. 

1516
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:22,319
Like Tywin didn't say the point 
of the tournament was to marry 

1517
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,040
Cersei to Rhaegar, but anyone in
his inner circle would have 

1518
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,000
known that a lot of other people
from afar would have been like, 

1519
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,680
OK, we see, we see what's 
happening here. 

1520
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,520
He's got a 10 year old daughter,
Rhaegar's unmarried. 

1521
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,960
We see this, we know what's 
going on. 

1522
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:37,720
It's pretty straightforward. 
Anyone who bothered to think 

1523
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,040
about it at the time could 
probably have sussed that out, 

1524
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,880
which means that a lot of people
would be showing up with other 

1525
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:44,840
plans. 
I mean, they know. 

1526
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:49,640
They know this is some an event 
that is even more than a lot of 

1527
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,720
other tournaments, not about 
what it's says it's about, 

1528
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,080
especially when the the object 
of celebration isn't even in 

1529
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,560
attendance. 
They were very happy, surely, 

1530
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,760
that Tywin was spending all this
money on this big event. 

1531
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,080
But a lot of people probably 
showed up with other plans in 

1532
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:05,080
mind. 
Like all right, we're going to 

1533
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,840
meet with these guys, meet with 
these guys. 

1534
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,320
Keep in mind, this was an era of
conspiracy. 

1535
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,000
We'd already had the defiance of
Dusk and Dale. 

1536
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,600
This is part of why Tywin was 
part of why Viserys wasn't 

1537
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:21,600
excited about going right and 
Aries was getting progressively 

1538
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:25,680
worse and worse. 
He wasn't to his Oh my God, this

1539
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,920
guy is a mess that he was at 
Harrenhal, where just looking at

1540
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,240
him was frightful because his 
hair was uncut, his nails were 

1541
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,080
freakishly long, and clearly 
something wasn't right. 

1542
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,200
It made it, it made him look 
worse. 

1543
01:10:37,440 --> 01:10:39,920
This stage. 
He didn't quite look so gnarly 

1544
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,680
yet, but he was getting there 
and the the rumors were 

1545
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:44,360
starting. 
He had burned a few people. 

1546
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:48,080
He'd lost a lot of children, so 
his insanity was growing every 

1547
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,720
day. 
So people were concerned it's 

1548
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,880
five years later when they start
planning maybe to overthrow him,

1549
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,360
having the great counsel to 
Harrenhal. 

1550
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,240
But you got to think the talk 
and certainly the sentiment, 

1551
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:01,640
people are thinking it if they 
weren't saying it had already 

1552
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,240
begun at this point. 
So I'm sure if we learn more 

1553
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:07,000
about this event one day, I'm 
sure that's going to be a part 

1554
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:08,880
of it, that we're going to hear 
what people were saying about 

1555
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,000
Aries as well as what they're 
saying about Tywin and and the 

1556
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,600
other bigwigs. 
But Harris is the one that I 

1557
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,600
think would would generate the 
most like nervous discussion or 

1558
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,040
like, what's the king going to 
do next or like, maybe it's 

1559
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,600
better if you just let him alone
and don't invite him to places, 

1560
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,840
you know, things like that. 
So do you have much impression 

1561
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:30,440
of this event, of this event, 
Sean? 

1562
01:11:30,440 --> 01:11:34,040
It's kind of, it's a little bit 
of a deep cut, but I know we've 

1563
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:35,400
talked. 
About No, I I. 

1564
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:37,760
In fact, there was even 
something I think Nina put in a 

1565
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:42,200
document about how Court had 
been moved to Casterly Rock at 

1566
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,120
one point in the past. 
What? 

1567
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,040
What's the story with that? 
Is that too much of A tangent? 

1568
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:47,160
No, it's not too much of A 
tangent. 

1569
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:52,040
Basically a while ago when there
was a it had been before this 

1570
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,880
when they were on better terms, 
when Tywin and Aries still got 

1571
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:59,000
along really well. 
Aries Tywin went back to 

1572
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,360
Casterly Rock to take up the 
lordship. 

1573
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,240
He was still Hand, but he had to
go settle stuff because his 

1574
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:05,960
father had died. 
He was Hand before his father 

1575
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:07,880
died. 
So when his father. 

1576
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,280
So when Titus died, he had to go
back, take up the lordship, set 

1577
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:12,960
a few things in in line and then
go back to King's Landing. 

1578
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,960
But Eric's is like, hey, let's 
just move court to Casualty Rock

1579
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,920
for a while. 
You can take your homework home 

1580
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,880
with you. 
It's like, I'm going home to do 

1581
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:21,960
work, you know, It's like, yeah,
but you can do both there. 

1582
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:23,560
And I'm like, all right, I'll 
do. 

1583
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,640
Yeah. 
As much as I don't like Tywin, 

1584
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:27,920
that dude had a lot of work to 
do. 

1585
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,200
He had a lot of like keeping up 
with Aries and running the West,

1586
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,240
yet that that wasn't easy. 
Let's play, you know, I'll give 

1587
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,000
him I'll give him a little bit 
of credit for that. 

1588
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:38,680
So they had familiarity with 
that. 

1589
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,400
The court like people had 
familiarity with with this 

1590
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:46,440
scenario of Aries going West of 
things being ruled from the West

1591
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,360
a little bit. 
So that probably set people to 

1592
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,400
talking too. 
It's like, again, court moving W

1593
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:53,880
it's like, is this going to be 
like especially with the idea of

1594
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,720
Cersei Mering Rhaegar, I bet you
most people thought he would say

1595
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,360
yes, or at least a lot of people
expect that he would say yes. 

1596
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,920
A lot of people probably did not
see the rejection coming, least 

1597
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,760
of all Tywin and Cersei, right? 
Or, or Jenna, like Jenna 

1598
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:06,920
Lannister thought it was going 
to happen too. 

1599
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,240
She basically told Cersei, get 
ready, you're going to be the 

1600
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,840
Princess. 
You know, they all thought it 

1601
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,800
was going to work. 
So probably a lot of people made

1602
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:18,200
plans based on Cersei becoming 
Princess that those plans were 

1603
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,160
dashed as well. 
It wasn't just Tywin's plans. 

1604
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,800
It was, it's like, OK, let me 
use a modern example. 

1605
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,800
When a Walmart opens in a in a 
remote rural area, a bunch of 

1606
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,200
businesses open around them. 
It's like a whole mall opens 

1607
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:29,440
around them. 
Like a bunch of satellite 

1608
01:13:29,440 --> 01:13:31,960
businesses open size. 
Food restaurants and gas 

1609
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,600
stations and and you got to 
build a parking lot. 

1610
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:36,800
There's going to be construction
work and there's. 

1611
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,880
Yeah, that's exactly what I was 
thinking. 

1612
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,240
It's kind of boring, but a lot 
of logistical stuff comes along.

1613
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:45,320
I can imagine the second time of
Aries coming over to the West 

1614
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,360
and are expecting a wedding to 
be arranged. 

1615
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,720
I can imagine someone's like, 
all right, we really need to get

1616
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,920
that bridge repaired. 
Yeah, yeah, just make it look 

1617
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:53,440
nicer if there's. 
Going to be a wedding, they're 

1618
01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:56,560
going to need, all right, let's 
get set aside some extra pigs 

1619
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:58,560
for the feast. 
And, you know, I imagine a lot 

1620
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:02,560
of business and workings. 
It might not be as exciting 

1621
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,840
enough for the intrigue of a 
book, but still would be part of

1622
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:07,400
the lives of the people 
involved. 

1623
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:09,200
Now imagine that Walmart closes 
down. 

1624
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:10,400
What happened to the satellite 
business? 

1625
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,120
A lot of them go die out as 
well. 

1626
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,800
So the same thing happened. 
Like the people made their plans

1627
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,120
based on expecting Tywin to have
a greater place at the table. 

1628
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,280
Even more so they already had 
and expect the Lannisters to be 

1629
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:20,760
part of the royal family going 
forward. 

1630
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,040
That's a huge change. 
But then that didn't happen. 

1631
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,160
Well, it did just hence 
hilarious was dead. 

1632
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:28,640
Yeah, you'd all know the term. 
That's right, lot of room there,

1633
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:30,560
quite a lot of room there. 
The Tywin held another 

1634
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,400
tournament in the year 295. 
So that's 20 years later 

1635
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,560
roughly, and probably others in 
between because again, showing 

1636
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,920
off his wealth, he wanted to. 
This is the thing he values. 

1637
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,280
But after the rebellion, it's 
notable that that he's holding 

1638
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,440
tournaments after the rebellion,
after he is now part of the 

1639
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:47,280
royal family because he didn't 
get in with the Targaryens, but 

1640
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,960
he was on the winning side of 
Robert Rebellion and Cersei 

1641
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,000
married Robert. 
So he did become part of the 

1642
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,760
royal family, which is a little 
ironic. 

1643
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:58,760
He was hand for Aries but not 
for Robert because John Aaron 

1644
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,320
was and and then he became hand 
after Robert died for for 

1645
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:06,800
Joffrey basically. 
So he wasn't able to marry his 

1646
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:10,920
daughter to the king when he was
hand, but when he was able. 

1647
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,120
When he had. 
Yeah, I don't think I have 

1648
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,680
anything else to say about that 
tournament, as cool as it is. 

1649
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:17,960
But isn't that neat? 
We just talked about a whole 

1650
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:19,600
bunch of stuff and almost none 
of it had to do with the 

1651
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,520
tournament. 
But the tournament, like kicked 

1652
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,600
so much of it off. 
The tournament was like the tip 

1653
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,720
of the spear, the event that set
it all up, the event that fell 

1654
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,600
apart, so the rest of it fell 
apart. 

1655
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,480
Yeah, I like this comment from 
guilty undertaker in the chat 

1656
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:35,120
who says every second wasn't so 
bad he was willing to let his 

1657
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,520
hand work from home. 
You know what employers is 

1658
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:39,960
really willing. 
To he's willing to work from 

1659
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:41,000
home as long as his boss was 
there. 

1660
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:42,480
So you can work from home. 
But I'm going to come. 

1661
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:46,560
Yeah. 
Can you imagine? 

1662
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,440
Your boss is like OK you can 
work from home but only if I'm 

1663
01:15:48,440 --> 01:15:50,640
there too. 
I can't imagine living with my 

1664
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:57,200
boss. 
That's why Sean moved out. 

1665
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:01,200
It's like I'm going to another 
state y'all. 

1666
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,200
Imagine if we had come with. 
Yeah, It's like, OK, you can 

1667
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:08,360
move to Denver. 
We're moving with you. 

1668
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:12,640
All right? 
We can make it worse. 

1669
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:17,320
All right, let's go to 
Harrenhal. 

1670
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:20,600
Only five years forward, this 
time we'll start off with a 

1671
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:23,120
quote. 
Even if all the conspiracies of 

1672
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,800
this and and things that were 
happening, side quests and 

1673
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:29,680
extracurricular activities that 
happen in Harrenhal, so much of 

1674
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,720
it happened that it's a legend. 
It has legendary status for how 

1675
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:35,960
much of the sort of stuff 
happened, even though half of it

1676
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:40,240
isn't documented. 
Many tales have grown up around 

1677
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:44,040
Lord Wen's tournament. 
Tales of plots and conspiracies,

1678
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,240
betrayals and rebellions, 
infidelities and assignations, 

1679
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:52,280
secrets and mysteries, almost 
all of it conjecture. 

1680
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:54,600
The truth is known only to a 
few. 

1681
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:59,320
Some of them have long passed 
beyond this mortal veil and must

1682
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,480
forever hold their tongues. 
Now that there's still a chance 

1683
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,440
that, you know, maybe Bran or 
some other supernatural means 

1684
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:09,200
gives us more insight into what 
happened here. 

1685
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,160
And, and maybe while there's 
plenty of other things Bran 

1686
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:15,680
could be looking at, we should 
point out that Bran is the 

1687
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,440
biggest source on the tournament
of Harrenhal. 

1688
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,520
Well, technically Jojen and 
Mira, who tell him the story of 

1689
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,160
this, the tournament in 
Herrenhal that his father never 

1690
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:26,760
told him. 
And that was interesting to them

1691
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:28,920
that that Ned had never told him
this or that your father hasn't 

1692
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:30,800
told you any of this. 
And they're like, he's like, no.

1693
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:35,120
And we're like, oh, well, that 
itself is interesting, but also 

1694
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:39,200
a separate topic from this the 
tournament Herrenhal is of all 

1695
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:41,280
these tournaments we've 
discussed, pretty much the only 

1696
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,880
one we don't see first hand. 
Well, I guess the tournament, 

1697
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,240
this last one we didn't see 
first hand. 

1698
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:46,680
We see it through some people's 
memories. 

1699
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:50,040
Cersei was there, but Bran has 
doesn't have memories of it. 

1700
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:51,920
He's told it, so he doesn't have
memories of it. 

1701
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,120
Ned thinks about it very little.
Barristan thinks about it a 

1702
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,120
little, but he mostly only 
thinks about a little bit of it.

1703
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,320
He mostly thinks about Ashara 
Dane and how someone dishonored 

1704
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:06,080
her and a little bit about Jamie
and then about how he was in 

1705
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,800
love with the char himself. 
So like, his thoughts are very 

1706
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:14,880
narrow in terms of how many 
things were going on at this 

1707
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,000
tournament that Barristan wasn't
even aware of, let alone 

1708
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,200
something that comes up in his 
chapters or in his memories. 

1709
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:24,280
So it's definitely the 
tournament we have the most 

1710
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,120
sources of. 
Danny's heard about it, Jamie 

1711
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:30,200
thinks about it, Bran has his 
story time for obviously 

1712
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:32,480
Barristan on Ned. 
And then and there's historical 

1713
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:34,240
mentions of it and I'm probably 
missing something. 

1714
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,520
It's well known that Aries had a
lot of paranoia over Rhaegar and

1715
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,840
his position. 
He was gradually learning or 

1716
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,200
hearing whispers that maybe 
Rhaegar was going to replace 

1717
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:46,360
him. 
And heck, if you're an insane 

1718
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:48,840
man on the throne and have a 
moment of lucidity, you might 

1719
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,560
think they should probably 
replace me. 

1720
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,320
You know, so you would be you 
would be thinking about that, 

1721
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,280
maybe even yourself, which might
fuel you're more paranoid 

1722
01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:57,800
moments like, Oh my God, they're
going to replace me. 

1723
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:00,880
You know, like you go from the 
the salient. 

1724
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:02,160
You know, I should be replaced 
too. 

1725
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:05,480
What are they they're coming for
me to replace me. 

1726
01:19:05,480 --> 01:19:08,720
Like both of these thoughts 
quite possibly entered his mind 

1727
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:13,040
in different states of of manic 
or not manic or whatever, using 

1728
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:15,360
stronger terms as well. 
Whatever was going on in his 

1729
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,160
head, let's put it that way. 
People like Virus were feeding 

1730
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:22,400
this paranoia, possibly for a 
fact, possibly not just to do 

1731
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:24,040
their job. 
Like Virus may have had things 

1732
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:25,640
in mind here. 
In fact, he probably did. 

1733
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,520
Scaring Aries or planting seeds 
in his head was probably 

1734
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:30,440
intentional. 
We don't know. 

1735
01:19:30,440 --> 01:19:33,240
It's not clear exactly why Virus
wanted to do that, but we know 

1736
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:36,720
he had big long term plans that 
started way back then. 

1737
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,880
So it's easy to see how that he 
may have thought exposing 

1738
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:43,080
Aries's insanity or driving a 
wedge between the two Targaryen 

1739
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:45,640
sides might have been a civil 
war they wanted to start back 

1740
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:50,160
then as compared to the civil 
war they have helped start 15 

1741
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:54,480
years later or 20 years later. 
Let's have the quote that 

1742
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:58,080
describes some of Aries's 
thinking and the associated 

1743
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,520
thoughts. 
In such a climate, it was scarce

1744
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,960
surprising that Lord Wentz great
Tournament excited much 

1745
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,120
suspicion. 
Lord Chelstead urged His Grace 

1746
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:08,000
to forbid it, and Lord Staunton 
went even further, suggesting A 

1747
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,600
prohibition against all 
attorneys. 

1748
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,560
Such events were widely popular 
with the Commons, however, and 

1749
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,320
when Lord Merriweather warned 
Aries that forbidding the 

1750
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,880
tournament would only serve to 
make him even more unpopular, 

1751
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:20,520
King chose another course and 
announced his intention to 

1752
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:22,600
attend. 
It would mark the first time the

1753
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:25,320
Aries the second had left the 
safety of the Red Keep since the

1754
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,200
defiance of Duskindale. 
No doubt His Grace reasoned that

1755
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:30,560
his enemies would not. 
Not dare conspire against him 

1756
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,840
under his very nose. 
Grand Maester Piselle tells us 

1757
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,360
that Aries hoped that his 
presence at such a grand event 

1758
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,120
would help him win back the love
of his people. 

1759
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:43,600
Now that is a wild expectation 
given Aries had the long ass 

1760
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:46,280
fingernails and the uncut hair 
and it's like how is this guy 

1761
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:50,000
going to inspire loyalty or 
anything? 

1762
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,880
Confidence that remotely 
resembles confidence And we're 

1763
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:56,280
like Oh my God what the hell. 
And this is probably why they 

1764
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,960
didn't think he would go. 
They're like, he hasn't left the

1765
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,240
Red Keep since Dusk and Dale. 
He looks like that. 

1766
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:03,880
It must have been a huge 
surprise that he attended. 

1767
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:05,760
They were like, oh, crap. 
All right. 

1768
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:07,760
Well. 
Heisel was probably just telling

1769
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,360
him what he wanted to hear. 
I bet Heisel didn't really want 

1770
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:11,960
him to go either, but wasn't 
going to tell him that. 

1771
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,280
Yeah, maybe once Aries made-up 
his mind, Heisel's like, Oh 

1772
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:17,080
yeah, I guess that's a good 
idea. 

1773
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:19,400
That's yeah, you're, you might 
be right. 

1774
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,080
And isn't that wild like the way
they were thinking? 

1775
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:24,120
One guy's like, just ban all 
tournaments, like, all right, 

1776
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:25,920
Like, yeah. 
And then the other guy's like, 

1777
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:27,840
no, well, you're already 
unpopular. 

1778
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:29,920
Maybe let's not do things to 
make you more unpopular. 

1779
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:32,400
But it goes to show why did he 
want to ban tournaments? 

1780
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,040
Why was that even on the table? 
Because people were conspiring 

1781
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,240
against him. 
It goes to show he's like, I 

1782
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:40,440
don't want to post or allow 
events where people are all the 

1783
01:21:40,440 --> 01:21:43,240
different Lords are going to 
gather and have a good excuse to

1784
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:45,640
talk about me. 
And then he did. 

1785
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:47,680
But he has more foolish notice, 
like, well, if I'm there, they 

1786
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,440
won't do that. 
They'll talk about you more, you

1787
01:21:50,440 --> 01:21:52,600
know everyone. 
Will talk about it instead of 

1788
01:21:53,440 --> 01:21:54,960
just the Lords. 
The Commons are going to start 

1789
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:56,920
talking about you too. 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this 

1790
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,400
backfired horribly. 
Like Rhaegar and the other Lords

1791
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,080
looking around, seeing how the 
Commons like, it'd probably help

1792
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,320
them Like if, if, if they're 
going to try to be the popular, 

1793
01:22:06,440 --> 01:22:08,000
like have as much support he 
can. 

1794
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,320
But being as popular as he can 
be, Rhaegar was very well 

1795
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:11,680
regarded. 
Rhaegar was very liked. 

1796
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,200
So if he's like, I want to make 
sure I have enough support and 

1797
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:20,960
popularity and and political 
clout to make this move as soft 

1798
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:22,840
as it can be. 
This transition is so we don't 

1799
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,960
want to have a civil war. 
We want to just remove on my dad

1800
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:29,800
without any acrimony, without 
any bloodshed. 

1801
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:32,680
The best way to do that is to 
from a position of strength, be 

1802
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:35,720
like Aries has no allies. 
Wanting to stand up from Aries 

1803
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,000
doesn't have people that are 
going to take his side and fight

1804
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:40,840
against Rhaegar. 
He wants people to just go, 

1805
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,280
yeah, it's better for the realm.
Let's just side with Rhaegar, 

1806
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:47,560
peacefully put this dude away, 
let him retire, don't give him 

1807
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,680
any authority anymore, treat him
with dignity, but don't let him 

1808
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:52,520
make any more decisions. 
You know, that kind of thing. 

1809
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:54,400
That that's, I think that's what
they were aiming for. 

1810
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:56,920
They, they, they certainly 
weren't aiming to overthrow him 

1811
01:22:57,800 --> 01:22:59,040
via blood if they didn't have 
to. 

1812
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:01,120
There's no indication of that 
that I'm aware of. 

1813
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,080
They wanted it to be peaceful, 
but this did throw a monkey 

1814
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:07,240
wrench in their plans. 
Like it definitely became harder

1815
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:10,800
for them to talk about their 
plans with Aries there with 

1816
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,320
because Aries isn't there by 
himself. 

1817
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,720
He brings his retinue, he's got 
spies are probably there, 

1818
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:18,800
virus's men are probably there. 
So they had to keep it on the 

1819
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,040
down low a little more. 
So it did probably impact there.

1820
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:22,800
It did 'cause the Commons to 
start talking. 

1821
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:25,960
So it may have built popular 
support for Rhaegar's side. 

1822
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,760
It may have had more people go 
like, yeah, we'd rather have the

1823
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:31,600
sun as king for sure. 
Especially seeing this dude in 

1824
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:33,920
his insanity, Like, yeah, time 
to make a switch. 

1825
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:38,040
We're OK with that, but. 
It made it harder for them to 

1826
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,360
hammer out the details. 
Yeah, and it became and, and 

1827
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:41,840
just none of this was part of 
the plan. 

1828
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:43,040
They just didn't. 
They couldn't have seen this 

1829
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:44,000
coming. 
Almost certainly. 

1830
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,120
Secondarily, there is a big 
question about the money. 

1831
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:48,920
How swift? 
What do we, what do you 

1832
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,360
associate with Harrenhal in the 
latter stages? 

1833
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:53,280
You don't associate great 
wealth, right? 

1834
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:57,080
You associate them having too 
much land to upkeep. 

1835
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:58,560
They don't have enough money to 
pay for it. 

1836
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:01,600
All right. 
And that was intentional because

1837
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,000
Harrenhal was built to be this 
dominant region. 

1838
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,640
So and one of the ways future 
rulers kept it from being 

1839
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:12,440
dominant was by limiting the 
amount of supporting lands owned

1840
01:24:12,440 --> 01:24:14,560
by Harrenhal. 
If it if it has all this wide 

1841
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,400
tracts of land supporting it, it
can, it can tax all that and 

1842
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:20,000
support itself. 
But if you keep it low, you keep

1843
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:23,480
it supporting land small. 
It can't, it stays house poor. 

1844
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:26,120
It can't feed itself. 
And so it's no threat to 

1845
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,760
overthrow the bigger powers, 
which was again, that was 

1846
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:30,120
intentional. 
They don't want Harrenhal to be 

1847
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:31,720
too powerful. 
So they have to keep it muted, 

1848
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:35,960
keep it nerfed. 
So where did House went get the 

1849
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:40,320
money for this? 
What's said to be 3 times 

1850
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,280
grander than the one Tywin threw
for Viserys that he was trying 

1851
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:44,840
to arrange Cersei to marry 
Rhaegar? 

1852
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,000
Where did they get that money? 
Big question. 

1853
01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:50,480
There's really only one person 
that people suspect. 

1854
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:54,320
Tywin would be someone to 
suspect given he has that kind 

1855
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:56,600
of money. 
But Tywin didn't attend, no 

1856
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,880
Lannisters attended. 
Rhaegar is the one that people 

1857
01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:01,440
suspect. 
He's the one who paid far. 

1858
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:03,720
And it's possible that Tywin 
sent money to him and and then 

1859
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:07,200
he paid for it through Rhaegar 
like multiple intermediaries. 

1860
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:10,120
But Rhaegar is the one it all 
seems to point at the 

1861
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:12,720
spotlight's on. 
And it's it's obvious why, given

1862
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,120
all the things we just said. 
He's the one that's trying to 

1863
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:18,680
steer this ship peacefully away 
from his father, towards 

1864
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:21,160
himself, towards his reign. 
Obviously that didn't happen. 

1865
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:26,000
But to add to the conspiracy, 
Sean, you may not have been 

1866
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,440
aware of this. 
The tournament was announced in 

1867
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:30,040
280. 
It was held in the year after, 

1868
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:34,760
but it was announced right after
Lord Went got a visit from his 

1869
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:39,600
Kingsguard brother, Oswell Went.
Oswell Went was one of the three

1870
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,680
Kingsguard who died at the Tower
of Joy, defending Rhaegar's 

1871
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:46,080
child to their last breath, 
along with Arthur Dayne and 

1872
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:48,720
Gerald Hightower. 
So Oswell went was tight with 

1873
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:50,320
Rhaegar. 
He was one of his tight, tight 

1874
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:52,640
buds, right? 
It makes sense that Rhaegar 

1875
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,120
might have sent him with this 
message, this plan. 

1876
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:58,720
To broach this opportunity. 
It also makes sense that Tywin 

1877
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:02,480
might have been excited for this
to happen, it might have even 

1878
01:26:02,480 --> 01:26:04,880
contributed money. 
But he it also makes sense for 

1879
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,800
him to not just. 
To stand aside and maybe take a 

1880
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:11,360
like jump in with the winners 
like he did with Robert 

1881
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:13,200
Rebellion. 
Just wait to see, wait for it to

1882
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:15,080
be decisive. 
So, yeah, this is this is 

1883
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:16,800
something about the tournament 
that makes it so special. 

1884
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,160
And that implies both the grand 
wealth and that there was the 

1885
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:24,680
fact so much was going on is 
because they wanted so many 

1886
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:27,000
distractions. 
They wanted it to be the huger 

1887
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:31,720
the event, the more smokescreens
they have to hide what's really 

1888
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,040
going on. 
That that makes sense, doesn't 

1889
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:36,240
it? 
Yeah, I was going to use the 

1890
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:37,200
word smoke spring. 
You took that? 

1891
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:40,160
Nice. 
It had like all the add-ons. 

1892
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:42,120
If it were a pizza, it had every
topping. 

1893
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:44,800
If it was a game, it had all the
DLCS. 

1894
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,800
An apple. 
Even pineapple, it had night 

1895
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:51,280
nights watch recruiters there to
to try to win people to the 

1896
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,880
nights watch. 
It had Jamie's white cloak 

1897
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:56,520
ceremony, which was very 
dramatic because Aries told him 

1898
01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:58,560
to go home afterwards. 
He's like, wait, I was going to 

1899
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,760
enter the tournament. 
No, you're mine now if you go. 

1900
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,200
That's what he said. 
He's mine now. 

1901
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:05,640
You go back to the Red Keep. 
You can't even watch. 

1902
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:08,760
No. 
Damn, that's rough. 

1903
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:12,040
That helps set up some of the 
the Dane plot too, because like 

1904
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:14,520
I said, with with Barristan 
thinking about Arthur Dane, not 

1905
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:18,000
Arthur Dane, but Ashara Dane and
Ned and all that business that's

1906
01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:19,800
added here. 
That all happened here. 

1907
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,000
Obviously the Rhaegar Liana 
stuff happened here. 

1908
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,080
Some of it started before this, 
but it came to a head here with 

1909
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,880
the Night of the Laughing Tree 
and Howland Reed getting beat up

1910
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:33,120
by the Squires and Liana helping
him and maybe supernatural stuff

1911
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,480
going on with them, and Aries 
demanding saying the night of 

1912
01:27:36,480 --> 01:27:37,880
the Laventry is no friend of 
his. 

1913
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:41,600
It was just all this stuff that 
is above the tournament, you 

1914
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:43,080
know? 
And a side of it. 

1915
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:46,200
Super cool. 
Rhaegar's win, of course, capped

1916
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:50,560
off a long string of victories 
and near victories, meaning it 

1917
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,600
was really emphasized what a 
great warrior he was. 

1918
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:55,560
Even if people were losing to 
him sometimes. 

1919
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:58,440
He actually did beat Barristan. 
We know that pretty clearly 

1920
01:27:58,440 --> 01:27:59,520
because Barristan thinks about 
it. 

1921
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:03,320
He thinks, man, if only I had 
won, then he wouldn't have given

1922
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,880
the Queen of Love and Beauty 
prize to Lyanna and that might 

1923
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,400
like that would have might have 
avoided a lot of problems. 

1924
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:12,720
So he, it's a good man that 
blames himself for something 

1925
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:14,480
that's not his fault. 
He's like, if I only if I had 

1926
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:16,480
one. 
So one of the reasons we like 

1927
01:28:16,480 --> 01:28:18,840
Barristan so much is he's taking
responsibility for thinking it's

1928
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:20,920
entirely not his fault. 
Just what more could I have 

1929
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:22,080
done? 
That's a question that good 

1930
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:25,040
people ask. 
And this is kind of funny too. 

1931
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:28,080
Barristan reading the history of
tournament wins, which isn't 

1932
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:30,480
exactly what we're out here to 
talk about today, but I want to 

1933
01:28:30,480 --> 01:28:32,120
throw it in because it's fun. 
Barristan won a bunch of 

1934
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:36,200
tournaments in the two 50s and 
then a bunch in the two 90s and 

1935
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:38,200
a bunch in between. 
He just just wins. 

1936
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:40,000
Like it just can't be stopped 
really. 

1937
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,040
And that too is a message. 
So it is kind of on brand here. 

1938
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:45,160
It is kind of part of this. 
It's the message was don't mess 

1939
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:49,040
with Aries's Kingsguard. 
Like that was a huge problem. 

1940
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:51,080
They're like, OK, we're going to
overthrow Aries. 

1941
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,600
We can get a lot of Lords to 
detach themselves from him 

1942
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:55,480
because they don't want to be 
part of a sinking ship. 

1943
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:58,560
But his Kingsguard, what are we 
going to do about them? 

1944
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:01,200
Those guys are bad asses. 
How are we going to set? 

1945
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,840
Like what if if they if he says 
no and starts telling them to go

1946
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,640
out and kill people or bring me 
the heads of this and that and 

1947
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:11,160
like, what's going to happen? 
We have to fight Arthur Dayne 

1948
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:15,400
and Barristan Selmy and crap. 
Like what are we going to do 

1949
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:17,480
about that? 
So this is a real problem and 

1950
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:20,480
something that tenuously was 
emphasized throughout Aries's 

1951
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:22,760
reign because they kept winning 
tournaments. 

1952
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:26,200
It was like there was basically 
3 recurring tournament winners 

1953
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:30,200
in this era, Arthur Dayne, 
Barristan Selmy and Rhaegar. 

1954
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:33,160
Jamie was constantly getting 
like second and third and 4th. 

1955
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:37,120
He won a couple but mostly he 
was in that winner's circle 

1956
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,480
without winning. 
He was also a little younger in 

1957
01:29:39,480 --> 01:29:41,000
this era. 
Like that's another thing. 

1958
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:42,920
He was an up and Comer where the
others were established. 

1959
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:47,400
But still that's a big deal. 
Like you, if you're going up 

1960
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:50,080
against Aries, you're going up 
against these guys. 

1961
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,240
And then of course Jamie becomes
one of those Kings card and this

1962
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,280
moment is like OK and the next 
great warrior is also a part of 

1963
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:58,000
that Kings card. 
Now, his loyalty wasn't as 

1964
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:01,600
dependable, but in Erius's mind,
put a white cloak on someone and

1965
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:04,720
they belong to him, so he didn't
think that through entirely. 

1966
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,600
But also also a side top. 
Yeah. 

1967
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:13,160
So wow, big, big tournament, big
things happening so much at 

1968
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,800
once. 
And very little of it has to do 

1969
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:18,680
with the actual tournament, but 
even the tournament itself sent 

1970
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:20,560
a message who the baddest 
warriors were. 

1971
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:22,680
And it doesn't take a genius to 
see all those guys are on the 

1972
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:26,280
same team. 
But if if King's Guard were to 

1973
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:29,600
flip, if Arthur Dayne were to 
switch to Rhaegar's side, if 

1974
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,600
Gerald Hightower to switch to 
Rhaegar's side, it would also 

1975
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:36,880
have a huge impact, just like 
Barristan taking sides did have 

1976
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,760
a huge impact during during the 
war of 5 Kings. 

1977
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,000
Renly was like, we want we saved
this place for Barristan. 

1978
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,920
We wanted him so badly that we 
saved a spot for a Tywin called 

1979
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:49,640
it stupid that they sent him 
away just like that was dumb as 

1980
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:51,520
hell. 
Y'all, why did you do that? 

1981
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,880
Like for Sandor Clagaine, like, 
why? 

1982
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,960
Like he he's the same guy with 
or without a white cloak. 

1983
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:01,120
You know, you could have had 
both of them, you know, like, 

1984
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:02,800
that was dumb, guys. 
Yeah. 

1985
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:05,240
All right, so let's move on to 
the hands tournaments. 

1986
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:09,480
In light of talking about topics
like funding and how where did 

1987
01:31:09,480 --> 01:31:12,200
this money come from and how 
tournaments can cost too much, 

1988
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:14,800
we have. 
Back to our initial quote that 

1989
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,040
you picked, Sean of Ned not 
wanting to spend money on things

1990
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:20,280
like this or waste time on 
things like this when there's 

1991
01:31:20,440 --> 01:31:25,280
ruling to be done. 
We have a quote from SEPTA 

1992
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:29,160
Mordane, someone with a totally 
different perspective on this 

1993
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:32,480
event, a completely different 
type of thinker, a character 

1994
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:35,400
whose position is not well 
represented usually. 

1995
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:36,960
So I thought it'd be good to 
throw her in here. 

1996
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,480
Right. 
Princess Marcella will be there,

1997
01:31:39,480 --> 01:31:42,160
my Lord, and her younger than 
Lady Sansa. 

1998
01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:45,560
All the ladies of the court will
be expected at a grand event 

1999
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:49,680
like this, and as the tourney is
in your honor, it would look 

2000
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:51,880
queer if your family did not 
attend. 

2001
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,360
Ned was grumbling so hard but 
that he was thinking that Santa 

2002
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:56,440
and Arya wouldn't go. 
He's like, I don't even want you

2003
01:31:56,440 --> 01:31:57,440
to go. 
And Santa's like, what? 

2004
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:00,080
For once it's up to Mordain had 
her back there. 

2005
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,680
I was like, my Lord, it would 
look queer if you didn't go, you

2006
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:05,800
know? 
And he's like fine. 

2007
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:08,840
And Ari's like, I don't care. 
Ari's like I don't care. 

2008
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:11,440
And since it's like the 
tournament will be very nice, 

2009
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:14,720
you won't be welcome, you know, 
because you're not you're not 

2010
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:16,520
you're not upscale enough for 
it. 

2011
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,160
And that's like, This is why I 
don't want to deal with any of 

2012
01:32:20,160 --> 01:32:23,680
this. 
But it was huge for sure. 

2013
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:25,640
Like you said, Shawn at the 
beginning, like we danced around

2014
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:29,120
like we set up. 
It introduced so many of the 

2015
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:31,160
most important characters we 
just mentioned. 

2016
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:32,920
Sandor is a big introduction to 
him. 

2017
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:35,240
We kind of knew who he was 
already, but we didn't have a 

2018
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:38,200
full idea of his prowess. 
Gregor as well. 

2019
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:43,160
Loris, Jamie, George LED readers
astray a little bit with that 

2020
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:46,880
hue of the veil plot. 
He tricked us a bit, but the 

2021
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:49,760
idea was there. 
The reason we fell for it was 

2022
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:53,160
that a fake accident in a 
tournament where someone 

2023
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:55,800
murdered someone and made it 
look like an accident. 

2024
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:58,720
It made sense to us, like 
getting rid of a loose end. 

2025
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:02,440
We've seen that plot in other 
stories where this guy can can 

2026
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:05,520
out us, so we have to kill him 
to clear up to make sure that 

2027
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,440
we're safe. 
That's not what happened, but it

2028
01:33:08,440 --> 01:33:11,600
looked like that, so George used
it effectively as misdirection. 

2029
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,200
Was it also on his turn when we 
got introduced to Littlefinger? 

2030
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:16,840
I believe we had met him 
briefly, but we learned a lot 

2031
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:19,480
more about him. 
He was, he taught, he he sort of

2032
01:33:19,480 --> 01:33:23,280
outs Renly's sexuality in the 
show version and in the book 

2033
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:27,400
version, I don't think he has 
much to say other than he he 

2034
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:29,880
yells out of bets and that 
matters too. 

2035
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:33,440
He talked to Sansa. 
He definitely like put some fear

2036
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:35,520
in Sansa about the Hound. 
Yeah, the show version, you did 

2037
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:35,800
that. 
Yeah. 

2038
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:37,120
Yeah, totally. 
He took her. 

2039
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:38,840
He took. 
He got the Hound's origin story 

2040
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:40,880
and told him, which we're all 
like, that should have been his 

2041
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:41,960
story to tell. 
But still. 

2042
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,280
The book version, I think he may
have said one or two other 

2043
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:46,560
things, but he definitely, like,
yelled out a bet and then that 

2044
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:49,560
came back later. 
The betting came back later 

2045
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:54,200
because Tyrion gets infuriated 
when he finds out that Catlin's 

2046
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,320
evidence against him was a bet 
told to him by little, told to 

2047
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:00,600
her by Littlefinger. 
He's like your evidence is, is 

2048
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:05,120
Littlefinger told you I bet 
against my own brother? 

2049
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:09,440
Doesn't that sound wrong to you?
Like I didn't lose this dagger 

2050
01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:11,720
betting against Jamie. 
That's 'cause he says he got the

2051
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:14,440
dagger betting against Tyrion 
Lannister, the cat's paw dagger.

2052
01:34:14,440 --> 01:34:16,760
So again, I think people forget 
that that's part of the 

2053
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:17,640
tournament. 
That's all. 

2054
01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:20,080
I like this was this is all 
wrapped up in there. 

2055
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:24,080
And another lesson from the Sir 
Hugh of the Veil thing is, a 

2056
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:27,080
person with no allies at court 
is in a lot of danger. 

2057
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:29,280
Sir Hugh the veil had nobody, no
allies. 

2058
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:33,480
He was a Squire to John Aaron, 
who was no longer there, right. 

2059
01:34:33,480 --> 01:34:35,560
And John Aaron's court went back
to the veil. 

2060
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:37,240
The people who were in his 
retinue have gone back to the 

2061
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,000
veil and he didn't go with them,
sucker. 

2062
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:43,520
And so he gets he's If you're 
alone at court, someone will use

2063
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:44,960
you. 
You will be used because you 

2064
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:47,000
have no allies. 
No one will protect you whether 

2065
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:50,280
you're Sansa without your family
around you, they're too far away

2066
01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:53,000
to help, or you're someone that 
doesn't have a family. 

2067
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:57,160
Of of note, in terms of the 
nobility, like Sir Hugh, it 

2068
01:34:57,160 --> 01:34:58,840
turned out to be the simplest 
thing of all. 

2069
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:01,640
Gregor used him to satisfy his 
bloodlust. 

2070
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:04,800
It wasn't some big conspiracy. 
It wasn't any of that stuff. 

2071
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,120
It was just Gregor likes killing
Sandor was like, I could have 

2072
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:09,720
told you that, but he did tell 
them that. 

2073
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,840
In fact, he did tell Santa that 
no one believed him. 

2074
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:15,720
He's like, no, Gregor saw that 
guy's gorge. 

2075
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:17,840
It wasn't fastened properly. 
That's what he saw. 

2076
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:21,880
He didn't see gold in his palm. 
He saw an opportunity to kill 

2077
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:23,680
someone. 
By the way, I think we mentioned

2078
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:27,840
this once, but Hugh of the Veil 
was the same actor of Jason and 

2079
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,360
Tylen Lannister. 
That dude's done some work. 

2080
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:34,760
Jefferson Hall, yeah, for. 
His many faces, you know, even 

2081
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:38,840
if you do ostensibly have allies
in King's land and you're still 

2082
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:41,080
going to get used. 
Like Ned wasn't there all by 

2083
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:43,400
himself and he's still got 
manipulated left and right. 

2084
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:45,840
Yeah, as part of it is just are 
you the type that can be 

2085
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:47,400
manipulated? 
Are you manipulatable? 

2086
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:50,160
You're the you're what are you 
the you're the the meat or the 

2087
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:53,360
butcher? 
That analogy kind of fits here. 

2088
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:56,520
And the tournament personally 
has a huge impact on Santa, on 

2089
01:35:56,520 --> 01:36:00,120
her character, disabusing her of
the what's really happening. 

2090
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:05,160
She learns indirectly, but 
starting at the tournament of 

2091
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:08,520
things aren't as they seem. 
It's kind of the beginning of 

2092
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:12,240
her naivete falling off. 
And again, we like to point out 

2093
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:15,000
that it does fall off quickly. 
She learns pretty fast, but 

2094
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,760
there was a lot to learn. 
She she had a lot of naivete to 

2095
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:20,200
start with. 
Yeah, I also want to point out 

2096
01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:23,720
that it's not like Sansa is this
weird, naive character, like 

2097
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:27,240
anyone at 10 years old, you 
know, you, you you'd think that 

2098
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:29,680
these Knights are heroes and you
realize they're killers. 

2099
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:32,360
It's, you know, it's part of why
George is writing this book. 

2100
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:34,040
You know it's. 
Bran had the same view. 

2101
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:37,240
Bran's like remember 1 of Bran's
first quotes that we read like 

2102
01:36:37,240 --> 01:36:39,240
from his 2nd chapter. 
I think it is not his first 

2103
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:41,120
chapter when they're doing the 
direwolf, but when he's like 

2104
01:36:41,480 --> 01:36:43,520
brand new, all the stories and 
he's talking about the kings 

2105
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:44,720
guard. 
He's like Barris and the bold 

2106
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:47,320
Ryan Redwine, Eric and Ark 
remember that? 

2107
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:49,440
Like that's like his second or 
third chapter chapter or 

2108
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:51,240
something like that. 
So yeah, he's entranced by all 

2109
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:52,440
that too. 
And he would have been there 

2110
01:36:52,440 --> 01:36:54,240
sitting right next to his 
sister, enjoying it all if it 

2111
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:56,400
hadn't been for his fall. 
He was this much looking forward

2112
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:59,280
to all that as hers. 
Those two would have been of one

2113
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:02,520
mind about the tournament, at 
least at 1st, and it shows the 

2114
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:04,320
state of the realm. 
Some of these tournaments aren't

2115
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:06,680
able to judge that because we 
don't have a close enough view 

2116
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:09,080
of it, like we do with, say, 
House the Dragon Episode 1, 

2117
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:11,480
where we see it's openly 
discussed the state of the realm

2118
01:37:11,480 --> 01:37:13,600
and how that reflects that. 
Other times we kind of have to 

2119
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:16,960
read between the lines, like 
here, but Robert Sherman, 

2120
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,120
there's a lot of people that 
there's a lot of undertones of 

2121
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:20,760
unrest. 
We already, we find out later, 

2122
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:24,760
people are already plotting to 
maybe marry, to remarry Robert 

2123
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:28,120
to Marjorie. 
People kind of the word was out 

2124
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,120
that Robert's daughters or 
Robert's children weren't his 

2125
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:32,440
like people. 
A lot of people knew that. 

2126
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,320
And anytime people are 
gathering, people can talk about

2127
01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:37,120
that. 
And Robert's getting older, he's

2128
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:39,480
getting less healthy. 
There's more and more plots up 

2129
01:37:39,480 --> 01:37:41,840
in there. 
A lot of people out there going 

2130
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:43,920
to be thinking, well, how much 
longer is this guy going to be 

2131
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,320
king, preparing for the 
inevitable of unrest when 

2132
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:50,800
Joffrey ascends, if people 
object to him based on his true 

2133
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:52,080
parentage. 
So a lot of people are probably 

2134
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:53,760
worried about that or thinking 
about that or what's going to 

2135
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:55,360
happen. 
So a lot of people on edge, 

2136
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:56,400
maybe. 
And this tournament, I think 

2137
01:37:56,400 --> 01:38:01,560
reflects in some ways, but it's 
presented us to us mostly 

2138
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:04,880
through the naive eyes of Sansa.
So we're not seeing that. 

2139
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:06,040
Sansa's not out here looking 
around. 

2140
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:08,600
I wonder who's plotting, you 
know, I wonder this Lord over 

2141
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:11,120
here whispering in his ear. 
She's not taking note of things 

2142
01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:16,280
like that, you know, That's not 
her POV, isn't now she is in the

2143
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:16,880
veil. 
She's. 

2144
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:19,800
Going to say creates a good 
juxtaposition for her character 

2145
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:21,160
down the line. 
That's why I can't all. 

2146
01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:22,200
Differently. 
She looks at things, yeah. 

2147
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:23,800
That's one of the reasons I 
can't wait for the tournament. 

2148
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:25,360
The Wing Knights through her 
point of view is we're going to 

2149
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:30,800
see what she saw at the Tans 
tournament compared to her much 

2150
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:33,440
more wizened view at the 
tournament. 

2151
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:35,280
The Wing Knights, I can't wait 
to see like the difference 

2152
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:36,360
there. 
That's going to be so cool. 

2153
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:40,000
Thoros and Angai are in this 
tournament. 

2154
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:42,960
Thoros wins the melee. 
Great, great way to introduce 

2155
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,520
Thoros and Angai wins the 
archery contest and got the 

2156
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:47,800
Archer. 
So these characters that were 

2157
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:50,080
introduced well before they're 
both in the Brotherhood without 

2158
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:51,720
Banners. 
It's like, whoa, the Brotherhood

2159
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:54,360
got some pretty good fighters 
there on their side. 

2160
01:38:56,120 --> 01:38:59,560
And we also just see the state 
of the realm in this in this in 

2161
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:03,960
terms of Ned complaining about 
the money, Robert, Robert 

2162
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:07,080
beggared the realm. 
Ned was like, wow, even Aries 

2163
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:10,320
was better with money. 
You know, like damn, even 

2164
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,240
Roberts that that really 
depressed him a bit. 

2165
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:16,240
And he was and and sent him at 
first he was in disbelief. 

2166
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:18,320
He was like, he couldn't believe
that Robert was worth with 

2167
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,240
money, especially because John 
Aron was in charge for a while 

2168
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:23,320
than Aries. 
But he's like, yeah, John Aron 

2169
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:25,280
gave him good advice, but Robert
didn't listen. 

2170
01:39:25,480 --> 01:39:29,360
That's what I think Varus said. 
That put it very diplomatically,

2171
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:33,600
But so here we go. 
And what does that mean? 

2172
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:37,120
He this, this next quote really 
tells you, gives you a sense of 

2173
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:40,000
how much all this costs and how 
much, how much problems it 

2174
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,200
causes for people who aren't 
directly involved, for people 

2175
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:44,080
who aren't the participants, for
the people in the viewing 

2176
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:45,320
stands. 
Here we go. 

2177
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,360
Nights have been arriving from 
all over the realm and for every

2178
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:54,920
night we get 2 we get 2 free 
riders, 3 Craftsman, 6 men at 

2179
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:58,240
arms, a dozen merchants, two 
dozen whores, and more thieves 

2180
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,040
than I dare to guess. 
This cursed heat had half the 

2181
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:03,920
city and a fever to start. 
And now with all these visitors.

2182
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:08,040
Last night we had a drowning, a 
Tavern riot, three night fights,

2183
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:11,560
a rape, 2 fires, robberies 
beyond count, and a drunken 

2184
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:13,520
horse race down the street of 
the Sisters. 

2185
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:16,160
The night before, a woman's head
was found in the Great Sept, 

2186
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:19,680
floating in the Rainbow Pool. 
No one seems to know how it got 

2187
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:22,680
there or who it belongs to this.
Is one of the few times Geno 

2188
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:25,680
Slint is worth quoting, because 
this is who we're talking about 

2189
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:26,680
and. 
You know, this makes me think of

2190
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:29,480
Damon Targaryen in House of the 
Dragon when he's talking about 

2191
01:40:29,480 --> 01:40:32,120
like, getting ready for the 
tourney and you want, how do you

2192
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:34,480
want the city to be when they 
show up? 

2193
01:40:34,480 --> 01:40:37,400
Because if we're going to party.
That's a very good point to say.

2194
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:38,720
I didn't think of that when 
you're totally right. 

2195
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:40,760
He's mentioning it and, and, and
in the way that's presented, 

2196
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:43,760
it's like maybe he's 
exaggerating because of the all 

2197
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:45,960
the stuff he just did and 
chopping limbs off. 

2198
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,480
He's like, maybe he just likes 
doing that. 

2199
01:40:47,480 --> 01:40:50,920
But it does sound like he might 
have been telling the truth and 

2200
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:53,080
just being too severe with how 
to handle it. 

2201
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:55,840
But the truth that there is a 
lot of crime in the city is 

2202
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:58,000
believable. 
Yeah, especially with stuff like

2203
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:00,640
this happening. 
Just because it's true that 

2204
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:03,560
there's a lot of crime in the 
city doesn't mean you shouldn't 

2205
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:05,520
have a trial for the people 
being accused, you know? 

2206
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:09,680
But yeah, totally what's also an
F? 

2207
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:13,600
Jumping much farther forward 
here and into the end of second 

2208
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:16,920
book whereas this is happening 
early in the first book is that 

2209
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:20,600
long after this the turning 
grounds are made and they just 

2210
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:22,760
kind of sit there afterwards 
they're they were they were set 

2211
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:25,280
aside and and afterwards there's
still some like leftover 

2212
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:28,560
construction and just the area 
that had been made for that it 

2213
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:30,120
turns into an actual battlefield
later. 

2214
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:32,760
It's sort of foreshadowing 
because the Battle of the 

2215
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,240
Blackwater spills into this area
because meant ships are being 

2216
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:40,040
are going up the Blackwater and 
leaving men to jump off. 

2217
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:42,960
And that's a lot of that's right
at the attorney grounds after 

2218
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,040
the battle, after the Battle of 
the Blackwater. 

2219
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:48,040
Ned is dead by then too, of 
course, dead for a while. 

2220
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:50,920
There's just bodies everywhere 
and it's just described that 

2221
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:53,800
way, bodies all over the 
tournament grounds, which is 

2222
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:56,280
really just brings it all back 
together. 

2223
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:59,080
Like the, the the issues that 
started at the tournament were 

2224
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:00,160
on display. 
They didn't start at the 

2225
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:00,960
tournament. 
Some of them did. 

2226
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:01,920
Some of them were just on 
display. 

2227
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:04,120
They were focused. 
They were put under the lens, 

2228
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:06,640
under the microscope, and some 
of them were exacerbated. 

2229
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:08,720
Nothing was really settled at 
the tournament. 

2230
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:10,760
Things didn't improve because of
the tournament. 

2231
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:15,080
Alliances didn't weren't formed 
as so much of more grievances 

2232
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:18,800
were registered. 
And then here we go. 

2233
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:22,440
Like the battle actually comes 
to a head to, you know, a book 

2234
01:42:22,440 --> 01:42:25,280
and a half later and it's the 
biggest battle to the in the 

2235
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:27,520
series so far to that point. 
Just 10s of thousands of 

2236
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:30,520
casualties. 
A bunch of dead bodies on the 

2237
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,880
tournament grounds kind of adds 
context to Cersei's quote. 

2238
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:36,240
When you play the Game of 
Thrones, you win or you die. 

2239
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:38,120
Oh yeah, especially because life
tournaments are. 

2240
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:41,240
Bound to the tournament, you're 
now a spot of death in a real 

2241
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:41,800
war. 
Yeah. 

2242
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,040
Good. 
Sad you're right about that. 

2243
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:48,080
So now back to the other side. 
Before the before this happened 

2244
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:50,480
though, well before the Battle 
of the Blackwater, we got the 

2245
01:42:50,480 --> 01:42:53,240
Knights of Summer at the Rainbow
Guard tournament in Bitter 

2246
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:56,920
Bridge of 299 AC. 
The state of the realm question 

2247
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:00,280
is much different here because 
it's a rebel king. 

2248
01:43:00,280 --> 01:43:02,440
This is not a king sitting the 
throne. 

2249
01:43:02,440 --> 01:43:05,400
This is a king in the field. 
Usually rebels don't have time 

2250
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:07,040
to hold tournaments. 
I said at the beginning as the 

2251
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:09,880
power move, he was doing it for 
two mostly for I think there 

2252
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:11,800
were two main reasons. 
One was to show just how 

2253
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:13,400
powerful he was. 
He could afford to do this. 

2254
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:17,160
He could afford to waste time. 
He could afford to casually 

2255
01:43:17,160 --> 01:43:19,960
stroll into King's Landing as 
his army grew larger and larger 

2256
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:22,400
along the way. 
There was a little bit of 

2257
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:23,640
strategy there. 
Some of it was just 

2258
01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:27,200
grandstanding. 
Some of it was Renly pumping 

2259
01:43:27,200 --> 01:43:29,040
himself up and pumping up his 
cause. 

2260
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:31,560
But some of it was just letting 
the others fight it out while he

2261
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:34,120
took his time. 
That didn't work out so well 

2262
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:37,560
because Stannis landed right 
next to him and they ended up 

2263
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:39,120
having to fight. 
And that shouldn't have been a 

2264
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:42,520
big problem for Renly's army, 
but he didn't account for Shadow

2265
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:44,480
Baby. 
None of us accounted for Shadow 

2266
01:43:44,480 --> 01:43:46,160
Baby at the time. 
Well, that was a. 

2267
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,520
Big just shadow baby. 
He's might be in cahoots for the

2268
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:51,240
Spanish Inquisition. 
I think you might be right. 

2269
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:53,040
Do those shadow babies speak 
Spanish? 

2270
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:56,400
I haven't heard them speak. 
It is different. 

2271
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:57,600
And it's also a different 
reason. 

2272
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:01,520
Like Vicenya would have cringed 
at the idea of a tournament to 

2273
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:04,200
decide who the Kingsguard is 
because that's what Aegon wanted

2274
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:05,240
to do. 
Aegon the Conger, He's like, 

2275
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:07,200
let's have a tournament. 
The best warriors will be my 

2276
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:10,160
Kingsguard. 
But then he's like, no bad idea.

2277
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:13,440
You want the most loyal. 
You want people who will die for

2278
01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:15,400
you, Not the best warrior. 
The best warrior might just be 

2279
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:18,200
like, I could beat that guy, but
I'm going to stand, stand aside 

2280
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:20,120
because I don't want to fight 
him because I'm not that loyal 

2281
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:21,320
to you. 
You picked me because I'm good 

2282
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:23,240
at fighting. 
Actually, I'm kind of loyal to 

2283
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:24,200
myself. 
But yeah, you don't want 

2284
01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:26,160
Kingsguard like that. 
You want the ones who will die 

2285
01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:27,600
for you. 
Like Fagon said. 

2286
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:30,000
Like he wants Duck in his 
Kingsguard because Duck will die

2287
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:30,960
for him. 
He's like, yeah, he's not the 

2288
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:32,360
greatest swordsman, but he will 
die for me. 

2289
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:34,080
And Connington wasn't happy 
about that. 

2290
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:36,480
But I think a lot of us were 
like, that's a smart move. 

2291
01:44:36,480 --> 01:44:40,320
Like maybe you don't want 7 
dunks Ducks, 7 dunks would be 

2292
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:45,560
good, but one, one or two in the
mix is really good for the, you 

2293
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:49,080
know, for that reason, so. 
But no, an ideal world is 7 

2294
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:50,360
dunks. 
Yeah, 7 dunks. 

2295
01:44:50,360 --> 01:44:52,040
You can't do bad with them yet. 
What were you going to say 

2296
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:55,000
before Sean though? 
Oh, someone might not only be 

2297
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:58,280
loyal to themself, but they 
might be loyal to their uncle or

2298
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:01,720
their neighbor or their master 
at arms or who are their. 

2299
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:07,160
Yeah, it's a it, it is you. 
You do need a, a good, a good 

2300
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:09,600
mix of both, you know, 
competence and loyalty. 

2301
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:12,080
And then aside from all that, 
there's like the political 

2302
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:15,840
maneuvering of like, making a 
house feel honored by choosing 

2303
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:19,360
someone, or maybe like keeping a
certain person from taking over 

2304
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:19,960
a house. 
By. 

2305
01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:22,960
Yeah. 
Yeah, totally true. 

2306
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:24,320
You're right. 
There's a lot of reasons. 

2307
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:25,600
Like that's what Otto was 
saying. 

2308
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:27,520
That's why Otto was like, let's 
not just skip over the political

2309
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:29,320
considerations here by naming 
Kristen Cole. 

2310
01:45:29,440 --> 01:45:32,240
He's like, there's reasons and 
he's she doesn't want to hear 

2311
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:33,360
that. 
She didn't want to hear that 

2312
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:36,040
because she she's like, oh, 
politics this and that. 

2313
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:37,680
But it could have been something
to her benefit. 

2314
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:40,360
It could have been a political 
choice that benefited her, but 

2315
01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:43,120
she didn't want to hear it. 
And Otto wouldn't have probably 

2316
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:45,320
given her advice along with 
that. 

2317
01:45:45,440 --> 01:45:47,760
If she had been aware of that, 
she could have made a choice 

2318
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:49,960
that helped her politically, but
Otto wouldn't have steered her 

2319
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:52,080
in that direction. 
He was, but he did bring raised 

2320
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,920
the raised the issue, which is 
worthy of discussion. 

2321
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:58,560
Certainly it might be a good way
to pick one person for the 

2322
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:00,000
Kings. 
Yeah, maybe even a couple. 

2323
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,400
Yeah, but not all 7. 
But here I don't think it's a 

2324
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:04,720
problem in Renly's case. 
And the reason is is because 

2325
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:07,560
this is a he's a rebel. 
They already wouldn't be with 

2326
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:09,760
him. 
They're already declared for a 

2327
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:12,000
rebel. 
That implies loyalty already. 

2328
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:13,480
There are like Brienne. 
Obviously you don't need to 

2329
01:46:13,480 --> 01:46:14,800
worry about that with him or 
Loris. 

2330
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:19,640
But I think if you're fighting 
in this situation to be to fight

2331
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:21,520
for a rebel king, you've already
pretty much declared your 

2332
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:24,200
loyalty. 
There's maybe a way, a way for 

2333
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:27,680
someone to worm in and pretend, 
but just fight for the other 

2334
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:28,960
side if you're going to do that,
you know what I mean? 

2335
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:30,280
Like, how? 
How could you prove that you 

2336
01:46:30,280 --> 01:46:31,000
were doing that? 
I don't know. 

2337
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:33,040
Westeros doesn't really operate 
like that. 

2338
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:35,520
Underhanded moves like that 
don't usually get treated with 

2339
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:38,280
respect in in the aftermath. 
You want to beat your opponents 

2340
01:46:38,280 --> 01:46:40,720
head to head, That's what gets 
you respect. 

2341
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:44,040
Bystanders didn't get a lot of 
respect for really being killed 

2342
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:46,760
with the shadow. 
And that's partly why Renly was 

2343
01:46:46,760 --> 01:46:49,440
so keen on doing this, because 
he's like, this works for him. 

2344
01:46:49,440 --> 01:46:53,000
He's going to show, look how 
badly people want to fight for 

2345
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,080
me. 
And that message spreads like 

2346
01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:57,640
everyone wants to fight for 
Renly. 

2347
01:46:57,640 --> 01:46:59,920
And that's why I can go move 
along slowly, letting that 

2348
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:02,960
message spread, like, let that 
permeate through the 

2349
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:05,520
countryside. 
The great Renly is here, the one

2350
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:09,480
everyone wants to fight for. 
I do too, you know, like, let 

2351
01:47:09,480 --> 01:47:12,600
that, let that war do its work. 
So throwing tournaments along 

2352
01:47:12,600 --> 01:47:15,680
the way, it definitely, it might
seem frivolous, and a part of it

2353
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:18,040
was because I'm not sure how 
much Renly realized how 

2354
01:47:18,040 --> 01:47:20,240
strategic this was or if it just
kind of worked out for him. 

2355
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:24,520
Yeah, just because it happens to
be good or have some good 

2356
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:26,400
elements doesn't mean that's why
Renly was. 

2357
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:27,760
Exactly. 
I don't want to give him too 

2358
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:30,000
much credit, but I do think 
there were reasons it worked for

2359
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,200
him, let's put it that way. 
Like whether intentional or not.

2360
01:47:32,480 --> 01:47:34,200
It, it's the type of thing that 
would be neat. 

2361
01:47:34,200 --> 01:47:37,400
You know, you can't imagine that
there were some, he had some 

2362
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:39,360
advisors around found him. 
There might have been someone 

2363
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:42,440
explaining to him the bonuses, 
you know, like, even if he came 

2364
01:47:42,440 --> 01:47:43,880
up with this, it would be a 
neat. 

2365
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,360
You can imagine, like a council 
meeting where someone's like, 

2366
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:48,920
tell him really why it's such a 
bad idea and he's like, well, 

2367
01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:50,280
but. 
And someone else like, no, it's 

2368
01:47:50,280 --> 01:47:51,360
actually, it's a good idea for 
this one. 

2369
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,200
I was like, yes, that. 
So. 

2370
01:47:53,200 --> 01:47:54,080
All right, let's do it. 
Yeah. 

2371
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:55,160
I. 
Can imagine the opposite with 

2372
01:47:55,160 --> 01:47:56,360
Stannis. 
We're like Stannis, like, no 

2373
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:58,320
tournaments. 
And they're like, yeah, but 

2374
01:47:58,320 --> 01:47:59,320
there's a couple of good 
reasons. 

2375
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:01,000
Like he'd be like Ned. 
He'd be like, I don't want 

2376
01:48:01,000 --> 01:48:03,080
anything to do with this. 
He's like, all right. 

2377
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:04,600
Yes, you might be right. 
So we'll do. 

2378
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:06,320
But it's so much money, Yeah. 
But anyway. 

2379
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:07,920
So he's like, oh, it's it's 
people do it. 

2380
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:09,200
So people do it because people 
do it. 

2381
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:11,840
You know, I got to do it as 
expected of a king, you know, 

2382
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:13,560
like a fine. 
You know, that might be what 

2383
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:14,800
gets him. 
You know, it's like, it's kind 

2384
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:16,480
of your duty. 
But boy, he would just be 

2385
01:48:16,480 --> 01:48:17,840
grumbling the whole time. 
He'd like next. 

2386
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:20,880
Yeah, get it over with. 
You know, he'd be like, his 

2387
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:24,120
brother starts a joust already, 
but not because he won't. 

2388
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:25,560
He can't wait for it. 
He's like, he can't wait for it 

2389
01:48:25,560 --> 01:48:28,720
to be over. 
The other thing that Nina points

2390
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:31,280
out that was really valuable for
Renly in the sense was that by 

2391
01:48:31,280 --> 01:48:36,200
marrying Marjorie, he wins the 
reach over to his side. 

2392
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:39,480
But this has just happened. 
So he needs to also like have 

2393
01:48:39,480 --> 01:48:42,440
time for that to spread through 
the reach and for the reach to 

2394
01:48:42,440 --> 01:48:45,160
sort themselves out and decide 
who they're going to follow. 

2395
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:48,880
And of course, they're likely to
follow the daughter, the the 

2396
01:48:48,920 --> 01:48:52,840
side that has Marjorie Tyrell. 
But again, take your time and 

2397
01:48:52,840 --> 01:48:55,600
let them join you rather than 
rush off to battle before you're

2398
01:48:55,600 --> 01:48:58,320
at full strength. 
And Nina says similar things 

2399
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:01,240
about Damon Blackfire, says he 
used his nightly skills and 

2400
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:04,320
tournament experience to appeal 
to the people in the Reach. 

2401
01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:06,080
Like, he was the consummate 
knight. 

2402
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:09,120
He was a tournament dominator. 
And so when he shows up in the 

2403
01:49:09,120 --> 01:49:10,720
Reach being like, hey, look at 
me. 

2404
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:13,880
I'm like you. 
I'm your ideal. 

2405
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:15,320
A lot of people flock to his 
banners. 

2406
01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:17,920
And Renly was trying to capture 
some of that same energy, though

2407
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:21,680
he did not have Damon 
Blackfire's skills, but he did 

2408
01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:24,080
have a lot of that same 
popularity, a lot of that 

2409
01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:25,480
belief. 
Yeah. 

2410
01:49:25,480 --> 01:49:27,280
He had the charisma without the 
the skills. 

2411
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:30,080
He may have had more political 
skills than Damon Blackfire. 

2412
01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:31,920
We don't really know. 
He just definitely didn't have 

2413
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:34,800
the the sword kills. 
Nina points out, though there's 

2414
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:38,240
there's downsides as well, like 
had he just gone straight for 

2415
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:41,200
King's Landing, he might have 
just won it and that been the 

2416
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:43,240
end of it. 
He he might not have needed the 

2417
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:46,000
extra tank speed could have done
more for him. 

2418
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:48,360
So it could have been a it could
have been a huge mistake. 

2419
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:50,200
It's it's a woulda coulda 
shoulda, We don't know. 

2420
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:52,640
It may have backfired had he 
done that. 

2421
01:49:53,240 --> 01:49:56,480
But as it is, Renly fans are 
bitter. 

2422
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:00,280
All right, the Tourney of the 
Wing tonight's it's our last 

2423
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:03,320
example of the day, the last 
major example. 

2424
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:06,880
I did collect a few anecdotes 
from other tournaments for for 

2425
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:09,320
our outro here. 
But yeah, I don't want to say 

2426
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:11,200
too much about this one because 
some of you all have avoided it 

2427
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,360
because of it's wins, winter 
spoilers, so we won't get into 

2428
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:14,640
details. 
But here let me just say a few 

2429
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:17,880
things that are obvious. 
It's a tournament run by 

2430
01:50:17,880 --> 01:50:20,560
Littlefinger. 
Stuff's going to happen. 

2431
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,720
They're also like discussing 
grain prices during winter, 

2432
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:28,520
which is the type of behind the 
scenes, like finagling of 

2433
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:31,360
finance, the kind of thing we we
talk about that that definitely 

2434
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:33,280
happens that we just don't 
always aren't Privy to. 

2435
01:50:33,440 --> 01:50:35,080
And we know that Lynn Corbrae is
there. 

2436
01:50:35,080 --> 01:50:37,800
We already know that that 
Littlefinger worked with Lynn 

2437
01:50:37,800 --> 01:50:40,480
Corbrae to throw off another 
meeting in A Feast for Crows 

2438
01:50:40,480 --> 01:50:43,800
when they met to the Lord's 
declarant and all that, where he

2439
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:47,200
got Lynn Corbrae to pull his 
sword out at a parlay to throw 

2440
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,720
the whole thing off. 
I don't know what he's going to 

2441
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:53,760
do here, but these two are again
in cahoots, most likely so. 

2442
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:57,160
And we do also know Harold 
Harding won a melee for Squires,

2443
01:50:57,400 --> 01:50:59,280
and Harold Harding maybe isn't 
that great of a fighter. 

2444
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:01,880
So did he really win that melee 
for Squires like what happened 

2445
01:51:01,880 --> 01:51:03,880
there, You know? 
So there's all this lots of set 

2446
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,080
up. 
You know, little fingers off in 

2447
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:10,040
a lot of ways, but but I can I 
still can imagine him being so 

2448
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:12,200
frustrated with Robert and 
whoever else. 

2449
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:14,080
Like do you know what I could do
with a tournament? 

2450
01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:16,200
God, one day run my own 
tournament. 

2451
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:18,640
Man, the things I could pull, 
yeah. 

2452
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:21,480
The potential that you're 
fluttering away. 

2453
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:23,000
Yeah, 'cause he knows how to 
make money too. 

2454
01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:25,240
So he would do all the things 
like he would, he would find 

2455
01:51:25,240 --> 01:51:29,280
ways to maximize the profits as 
well as all the other evil 

2456
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,720
stuff, which the maximizing the 
profits isn't necessarily evil, 

2457
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:37,600
but it can be what he does. 
Yeah, yeah, but even the other 

2458
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:40,720
stuff isn't necessarily evil, 
like coordinating marriages and 

2459
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:44,520
repair some road and making 
friends among different nights 

2460
01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:46,480
and all this stuff could all be 
very polished. 

2461
01:51:46,600 --> 01:51:49,080
You know, even if maybe he has, 
you know, selfish evil 

2462
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:51,960
intentions or whatever, he could
still be very productive with 

2463
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:54,360
the tournament. 
Whereas Robert barely cares, 

2464
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:56,200
throws a bunch of money at it 
and just wants to see someone 

2465
01:51:56,200 --> 01:51:57,040
fight. 
You know, that's. 

2466
01:51:57,040 --> 01:51:59,680
Part of why he's risen so high 
is because he is effective with 

2467
01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:01,840
money. 
Some of that is is effective, 

2468
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:03,920
quote, UN quote, because he's 
fooled people to think he's 

2469
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:06,440
effective when actually he's put
the crown in some debt and 

2470
01:52:06,440 --> 01:52:09,080
things and done all this 
financial chicanery that 

2471
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:14,400
benefited him a lot. 
But he is good at it, you know, 

2472
01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:17,040
like, yeah, if he wasn't, if he 
was totally incompetent, yeah, 

2473
01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:18,400
he wouldn't have risen that high
in the 1st place. 

2474
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:20,760
He has to have some skills that 
are not all evil or he wouldn't.

2475
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:21,920
Yeah, he wouldn't have gotten 
this far. 

2476
01:52:22,440 --> 01:52:25,040
It's also just kind of odd too. 
Isn't it weird to think about 

2477
01:52:25,040 --> 01:52:28,600
this a tournament about to 
happen and with everything else,

2478
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:30,440
I'm like, we're about to have 
the others that are like coming 

2479
01:52:30,440 --> 01:52:33,280
like there's a war at the wall. 
I mean, John was just killed. 

2480
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:38,080
You know, Danny was is on the 
out in the middle of nowhere. 

2481
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:41,360
There's plague at Marine. 
I mean, the Veil's going to have

2482
01:52:41,360 --> 01:52:43,400
a tournament, but that but it 
makes sense. 

2483
01:52:43,480 --> 01:52:45,920
The Veil's been held out of the 
fighting and they've wanted to 

2484
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:48,000
fight. 
They're like, let us go fight. 

2485
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:50,760
Damn you, Eliza. 
We want to get out there. 

2486
01:52:50,760 --> 01:52:53,640
We want to be part of this. 
We look weak sitting here doing 

2487
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:54,800
nothing. 
It's embarrassing. 

2488
01:52:55,480 --> 01:52:57,880
So this is the next best thing. 
Have a tournament. 

2489
01:52:57,880 --> 01:52:59,600
There's something at stake, 
right? 

2490
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:02,840
So they want to get involved. 
And again, the thing that's at 

2491
01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:06,840
stake is being Robert's personal
guardians, which they're doing 

2492
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:08,520
it. 
And that isn't loyalty. 

2493
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:11,080
This is this is skill at arms. 
We just talked about why that's 

2494
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:14,000
not the best idea. 
But of course, the the idea that

2495
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:17,240
Robert will get murdered by 
little fingers comes up way 

2496
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:19,840
before this chapter. 
Of course. 

2497
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:22,080
In fact, the biggest evidence 
for it has nothing to do with 

2498
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:26,000
this chapter anyway. 
You can also imagine loyalty may

2499
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,240
come down to who wins this 
tournament, like on the surface 

2500
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:30,880
about, but Littlefinger's going 
to set it up so that the loyal 

2501
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:33,480
people win. 
Loyal to him, yeah, right. 

2502
01:53:33,600 --> 01:53:34,960
The little finger. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2503
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:37,400
So that's that's kind of what 
we're expecting anyway, we don't

2504
01:53:37,400 --> 01:53:39,840
know for sure because again, for
those of you who haven't read 

2505
01:53:39,840 --> 01:53:41,160
the chapter, the tournament 
isn't in it. 

2506
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:44,200
It presumably in Elaine's second
T Wow chapter, but we're not 

2507
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:45,440
sure yet. 
It's just the setup is there. 

2508
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:48,800
We're expecting a lot there. 
We're expecting more level, a 

2509
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:51,800
higher level of intrigue, maybe 
on the level of the A Tournament

2510
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:54,640
of White Walls, but also just 
the unusual nature of a 

2511
01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:57,440
tournament happening at a time 
when there's war in almost every

2512
01:53:57,440 --> 01:54:00,080
other region in the realm and 
overseas. 

2513
01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:02,360
But hey, the veil, they're just 
getting started. 

2514
01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:04,720
We talked at the beginning of 
how like the book was in the 

2515
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:06,320
first book was introduced kind 
of with the tournament. 

2516
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:08,040
The first show was introduced 
with the tournament. 

2517
01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:10,040
The House of the Dragon was 
introduced with the tournament. 

2518
01:54:10,040 --> 01:54:11,760
Well, the veil, they have to 
have that too. 

2519
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:14,200
They get their turn. 
That's a tourney, their turn. 

2520
01:54:14,240 --> 01:54:17,400
E Yeah don't go tournamental 
over it. 

2521
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:20,960
We'll send you to a you need to 
work on your tournamental health

2522
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:24,600
yes so just a few other 
tournaments that are worth 

2523
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:26,520
mentioning that we're not going 
to get into but just ones I 

2524
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:29,920
wanted to stoke the imagination 
as we work our way out of this 

2525
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:32,280
episode. 
Daenerys wedding tournament in 

2526
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:37,080
the year 187 not Daenerys of 
current times obviously, because

2527
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:41,280
I said the year 187. 
This is Daenerys of water 

2528
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:44,280
gardens fame. 
Her wedding tournament featured 

2529
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:47,840
Damon Blackfyre in the finals 
against Baylor Breakspier. 

2530
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:51,280
Hello. 
That was a that was a that was 

2531
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:54,640
foreshadowing, wasn't it? 
And Baylor Breakspier won, just 

2532
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:59,720
like his side won in the in the 
Battle of the Red Grass Field. 

2533
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:04,440
Otho Bracken slayed Quentin 
Blackwood at a tournament three 

2534
01:55:04,440 --> 01:55:07,040
years prior to Ashford Meadow, 
which had the Blackwoods and 

2535
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:10,680
Brackens not so happy with each 
other as of course they never 

2536
01:55:10,680 --> 01:55:14,280
are, but this fired up that old 
wound again. 

2537
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:17,160
He got the nickname The Brute of
Bracken for that. 

2538
01:55:17,160 --> 01:55:21,400
It's unclear whether he had much
intent there, but Bracken 

2539
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:23,640
Blackwood probably did, probably
did. 

2540
01:55:25,240 --> 01:55:27,960
And that that needed to needed 
work. 

2541
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:31,240
The the King had to do some 
business there to keep them from

2542
01:55:31,240 --> 01:55:33,680
killing each other. 
The Golden Wedding had a huge 

2543
01:55:33,680 --> 01:55:37,040
tournament that was notable and 
expensive because the whole 

2544
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:39,640
Golden Wedding was expensive. 
Was the biggest wedding, perhaps

2545
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:41,400
in the history of the Targaryen 
rain? 

2546
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:45,040
Yeah, that was obviously the 
Alyssa and Rogar's wedding. 

2547
01:55:45,080 --> 01:55:48,320
Yeah, I'll never forget the 
Golden wedding because we got us

2548
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:51,160
someone in our comments one time
when we did our George RR Martin

2549
01:55:51,160 --> 01:55:53,320
interview. 
And like George starts talking 

2550
01:55:53,320 --> 01:55:57,240
about the Golden wedding and we 
like change the subject to 

2551
01:55:57,240 --> 01:56:00,080
something else. 
And someone commented like, I 

2552
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:02,720
can't believe you guys cut 
George off when he was about to 

2553
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:04,960
reveal some new wedding in the 
Main Street. 

2554
01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:07,440
You know, like, I can't believe 
that we're like, we're like, 

2555
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:10,000
that was it's a known historical
event, you know? 

2556
01:56:10,440 --> 01:56:16,920
The person didn't respond so. 
I think of that every time. 

2557
01:56:16,920 --> 01:56:19,200
I'm like you guys, this is what 
the Golden wedding is if you 

2558
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:23,120
don't know. 
Referring to some things that 

2559
01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:25,160
y'all mentioned before, Sean, 
you mentioned that a lot of 

2560
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:27,760
older school tournaments 
involved teams where they would 

2561
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,640
turn, they would fight each 
other on teams, and then it 

2562
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:33,920
would change up to commemorate 
the opening of the dragon pit. 

2563
01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:37,920
The dragon pit was so huge that 
they had a tournament inside it 

2564
01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:40,120
before they started moving 
Dragons into it. 

2565
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:41,720
We can picture it really well 
now, though. 

2566
01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:43,120
We've seen House of the Dragon, 
right? 

2567
01:56:43,120 --> 01:56:45,520
Right, we can totally. 
Right, totally. 

2568
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:46,840
They could have a tournament in 
there. 

2569
01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:50,840
And what what they did was they 
had a bunch of teams that fought

2570
01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:54,640
each other and when one team 
won, that team had to turn on 

2571
01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:56,480
itself. 
So tournaments, you know, they 

2572
01:56:56,480 --> 01:56:59,040
turned on the selves. 
And that was the one Nina was 

2573
01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:02,440
referring to that Lukemore 
strong won Luke The Who. 

2574
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:04,280
Of course, that became Lukemore 
the Lusty. 

2575
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:07,480
So his ending wasn't so great 
but it had great start. 

2576
01:57:09,200 --> 01:57:11,200
Pretty good middle too. 
Pretty good middle, Yeah. 

2577
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:13,480
He had a good time in the middle
there with 16 children. 

2578
01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:16,280
But you know. 
I can imagine some like survivor

2579
01:57:16,280 --> 01:57:20,280
type tactics in that like you, 
you want to be on the winning 

2580
01:57:20,280 --> 01:57:22,560
team so you can make it to the 
end, but you might not want the 

2581
01:57:22,560 --> 01:57:25,360
strongest people on your team to
make it to that second stage. 

2582
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:26,480
But. 
You do want the Lukamar 

2583
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:31,120
strongest people on your team or
you want someone to take him out

2584
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:33,720
before he went. 
Yeah, So that's pretty cool. 

2585
01:57:34,120 --> 01:57:38,040
And the Red Viper, when he 
crippled Willis, that was in a 

2586
01:57:38,040 --> 01:57:39,280
tournament. 
We don't know what tournament, 

2587
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:41,280
just some random tournament. 
It's never given a name. 

2588
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:45,000
But that was obviously important
politically, Red Viper claims I 

2589
01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:47,080
didn't do anything on purpose. 
And he he's the kind of guy that

2590
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:49,160
would say he did probably if he 
does like, no, I meant to do 

2591
01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:50,840
that. 
He would not be shy about saying

2592
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:53,000
that. 
But it still had a political, 

2593
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:55,320
huge political impact. 
Like that's the the brother to 

2594
01:57:55,320 --> 01:57:58,400
the Lord of Dorn or to the 
Prince of Dorn crippled the 

2595
01:57:58,400 --> 01:58:00,960
aired Highgard. 
And that's a big story whether 

2596
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:02,440
you know, even though it was 
almost certainly just an 

2597
01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:03,960
accident. 
Willis even believed it was an 

2598
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:05,400
accident. 
Willis remember, he sends him 

2599
01:58:05,400 --> 01:58:07,560
get. 
All off his horse or get the 

2600
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:09,040
horse fell on him the. 
Horse fell on him. 

2601
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:10,240
Yeah, that's what happened. 
He got he. 

2602
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:11,560
Yeah. 
That's hard to blame. 

2603
01:58:11,560 --> 01:58:16,400
Exactly, but from a distance, 
this violent Dornishman who has 

2604
01:58:16,400 --> 01:58:20,240
a reputation any of this young 
gentle it just it doesn't look 

2605
01:58:20,240 --> 01:58:22,320
good and the and the red wipers 
like he was too young to. 

2606
01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:25,000
Be, I mean, the Reach and Doran 
are like, you know, traditional 

2607
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:28,480
enemies at odds. 
So it, you know, yeah, the the 

2608
01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:32,280
average person might not believe
that story. 

2609
01:58:32,440 --> 01:58:35,520
Yeah, like if, oh, Phil Bracken 
really did accidentally kill 

2610
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:36,960
Lucas Blackwood, no one would 
believe him. 

2611
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:38,320
Quentin Black. 
Quentin Black. 

2612
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:39,280
I'm sorry. 
Quentin Blackwood. 

2613
01:58:39,280 --> 01:58:41,000
Yeah. 
No one would believe him except 

2614
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:42,560
his family and he might not even
own up to. 

2615
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:43,800
He was like, no, yeah, I meant 
to do that. 

2616
01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:46,680
Like I didn't. 
He might go like, it's the it's 

2617
01:58:46,680 --> 01:58:47,880
the question we have about 
Eamon. 

2618
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:49,440
Was Eamon going to own up to 
kill him? 

2619
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:52,560
Luke is going to claim he's did 
it on purpose or is he going to 

2620
01:58:52,560 --> 01:58:56,760
say, oops, yeah. 
Lady Ellen as in Lady Ellen rain

2621
01:58:56,760 --> 01:59:00,320
of the Rains of Castamere era. 
She threw a lot of tournaments 

2622
01:59:00,960 --> 01:59:04,720
as a way to pump her house up as
a way to sort of over shadow the

2623
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:07,480
Lannisters, right. 
She was the Lady of Castely 

2624
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:10,800
Rock, even though she didn't 
really have the authority she 

2625
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:12,640
did. 
She took the authority and no 

2626
01:59:12,640 --> 01:59:15,120
one called her out on it until 
Tywin came along and he was old 

2627
01:59:15,120 --> 01:59:17,480
enough to do that. 
But she was throwing tournaments

2628
01:59:17,480 --> 01:59:21,880
as a means to pump up her half 
of the family to be the the 

2629
01:59:21,880 --> 01:59:23,320
dominant in law. 
And it was working. 

2630
01:59:23,480 --> 01:59:25,560
She was just giving out orders. 
She was telling people what to 

2631
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:27,880
do. 
She was ruling in in all but 

2632
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:31,280
name. 
And being the provider, being 

2633
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:34,360
the one who holds the large 
events, like gives you that like

2634
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:36,960
supports that level of unearned 
authority. 

2635
01:59:36,960 --> 01:59:41,760
So that's part of how she took 
the reins in 272. 

2636
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:44,880
There was a tournament four 
years before Aries. 

2637
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:47,000
Tywin held the tournament for 
Viserys birth. 

2638
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:49,680
This was the 10 year anniversary
of Aries King. 

2639
01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:53,880
This is the time when Aries 
mocked Joanna and was like, it's

2640
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:56,960
your breasts have been ruined by
having kids, you know, and I 

2641
01:59:56,960 --> 01:59:58,480
just said that in front of 
everybody. 

2642
01:59:58,920 --> 02:00:01,520
And Tywin tried to resign the 
next day and I was like, no, you

2643
02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:05,840
can't resign. 
I was like, man, it really 

2644
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:07,840
tries. 
Aries tries really hard to make 

2645
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:11,000
us feel bad for Tywin. 
It's hard to do that though. 

2646
02:00:12,240 --> 02:00:15,080
The Greyjoy defeat was 
celebrated Atlantisport Baylon's

2647
02:00:15,080 --> 02:00:18,440
rebellion, the one where Jorah 
won that event. 

2648
02:00:18,440 --> 02:00:23,280
But under the radar is that 
Jorah won the final tilt by 

2649
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:26,520
decision. 
He didn't win straightforward. 

2650
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:31,840
He he broke 9 lances against 
Jamie and Robert named Jorah the

2651
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:33,440
victor. 
Was Robert going to name Jamie 

2652
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:35,480
the victor? 
I don't know. 

2653
02:00:35,480 --> 02:00:36,960
Maybe he's like maybe this was 
his chair. 

2654
02:00:36,960 --> 02:00:40,440
Maybe he what he's in my mind 
Robert's thinking Robert likes 

2655
02:00:40,440 --> 02:00:42,480
jousting so why would he just 
call an end to it? 

2656
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:43,880
He would just let them keep 
going. 

2657
02:00:43,880 --> 02:00:46,720
Robert loves fighting. 
My thinking is he didn't want 

2658
02:00:46,720 --> 02:00:51,200
Jamie to win so he could just 
say he gave it to Jorah as an 

2659
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:53,760
excuse because he's like if he 
keeps on going Jamie might win 

2660
02:00:53,760 --> 02:00:58,160
and he didn't want that. 
So is his way to just like, OK, 

2661
02:00:58,240 --> 02:00:59,640
Joro wins. 
He fought better. 

2662
02:00:59,640 --> 02:01:01,040
Yeah. 
I bet he heard about it from 

2663
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:03,560
Cersei that night, though. 
Again, politics getting involved

2664
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:06,400
a little, just extracurricular, 
just kind of low scale politics.

2665
02:01:06,400 --> 02:01:09,640
But still, like, none of this 
Joro, none of that other stuff 

2666
02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:11,760
with Joro and Linus maybe 
wouldn't have happened if if 

2667
02:01:12,120 --> 02:01:15,080
they'd kept going and Jamie had 
won or if Robert had picked 

2668
02:01:15,080 --> 02:01:16,640
Jamie just to please his wife. 
Maybe. 

2669
02:01:16,680 --> 02:01:18,640
Maybe Robert was like, I really 
don't want to hear it from 

2670
02:01:18,640 --> 02:01:20,320
Cersei. 
So I'm going to name Jamie the 

2671
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:21,320
champion. 
I don't know. 

2672
02:01:21,640 --> 02:01:25,040
Weird thing, by the way, Danny 
might just be dead if Jorah 

2673
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:26,840
hadn't been there, yeah? 
You're right. 

2674
02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:29,520
Barton served her if, if you 
know, if Jamie had won that 

2675
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:31,040
tournament. 
Jorah doesn't make that 

2676
02:01:31,040 --> 02:01:31,880
marriage. 
Etcetera. 

2677
02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:34,200
He saved her life outside the 
tent for sure. 

2678
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:37,200
Maybe and maybe a few other 
times, but definitely that one's

2679
02:01:37,200 --> 02:01:39,160
very notable. 
Like the blood riders were going

2680
02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:39,840
to come kill her. 
Yeah. 

2681
02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:42,400
That's the one of the most 
straightforward. 

2682
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:43,960
Let's see. 
So, yeah. 

2683
02:01:43,960 --> 02:01:47,120
So it really shows us this, this
gives us the meta when you see 

2684
02:01:47,120 --> 02:01:51,440
Jorah winning and Jamie being 
talked about and you hear about 

2685
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:53,560
some of the other people who 
were in that tournament. 

2686
02:01:54,240 --> 02:01:56,960
It's it's the meta showing us 
who the badasses are before we 

2687
02:01:56,960 --> 02:01:59,680
see them in real action. 
It's like, OK, so we know 

2688
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:01,680
Jamie's good at fighting before 
we've ever seen him swing a 

2689
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:03,680
sword. 
We know Joras must be legit, 

2690
02:02:03,680 --> 02:02:06,520
even though he was on another 
level that day, like he was more

2691
02:02:06,520 --> 02:02:08,960
inspired than he's ever been. 
Still, he was a good fighter. 

2692
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:12,040
He was the second one through 
the walls at Pike, which is part

2693
02:02:12,040 --> 02:02:15,080
of this story because that was 
the the final battle that led to

2694
02:02:15,080 --> 02:02:17,800
this tournament. 
And it again allows the George 

2695
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:21,360
to mention people like Thoros 
Amir, who was the first one 

2696
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:22,680
through the breach with this 
flaming sword. 

2697
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:25,040
It allows us multiple mentions 
of characters like that. 

2698
02:02:25,040 --> 02:02:27,880
Because in a story this large, 
sometimes we need multiple 

2699
02:02:27,880 --> 02:02:30,480
mentions of characters to 
remember who they are. 

2700
02:02:30,480 --> 02:02:33,600
Like we're all so deep in it to 
this point, we don't need to be 

2701
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:35,040
reminded of who Thoros of Mirror
is. 

2702
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:38,960
But early on that was useful. 
Or before it sunk in who Thoros 

2703
02:02:38,960 --> 02:02:41,520
of Mirror was. 
That was useful. 

2704
02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:44,240
That was good. 
Also, the reason we know now is 

2705
02:02:44,240 --> 02:02:45,520
because he's had several 
mentions. 

2706
02:02:45,560 --> 02:02:46,800
Yeah, yeah. 
True, true. 

2707
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:48,560
And we would know him less 
otherwise. 

2708
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:51,040
Yeah, funny as well. 
Joffrey's name day tournament in

2709
02:02:51,040 --> 02:02:53,000
299. 
That's we mentioned that 

2710
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:56,280
briefly. 
That was the year before 298. 

2711
02:02:56,760 --> 02:03:01,240
Jamie lost to Loris in the 
finals of the same tournament, 

2712
02:03:01,240 --> 02:03:05,400
which was again, Jamie 
constantly finishing second, 

2713
02:03:05,480 --> 02:03:06,960
third, fourth in a lot of these 
tournaments. 

2714
02:03:07,640 --> 02:03:11,760
So Laura Loris won that one and 
299, like I said, was the Dontos

2715
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:14,160
affair. 
Sandor didn't even enter. 

2716
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:16,400
He's like, ah, this is the 
tournament of Nats because the 

2717
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:18,680
war has started by this point. 
So most of the most of the best 

2718
02:03:18,680 --> 02:03:23,440
warriors were out in the field. 
And this features one of my 

2719
02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:26,840
favorite exchanges in all of the
Song of Ice and Fire when 

2720
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:29,120
Joffrey's like, all right, the 
tournament's over, tournament's 

2721
02:03:29,120 --> 02:03:30,520
done. 
He's just bored. 

2722
02:03:30,520 --> 02:03:32,520
It's not a very good tournament 
because it's most of the best 

2723
02:03:32,520 --> 02:03:35,160
warriors aren't there. 
Dontos has has just happened and

2724
02:03:35,720 --> 02:03:39,800
that's embarrassing, you know, 
And so Tom is like, wait, I 

2725
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:42,640
didn't get a chance to do do 
right against the quintane and 

2726
02:03:42,640 --> 02:03:47,040
Jopra's like don't be childish, 
you know, and and Thomas said, 

2727
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:49,040
mother said and here's the 
quote. 

2728
02:03:49,640 --> 02:03:53,320
Mother Said mocked the king. 
Don't be childish. 

2729
02:03:53,800 --> 02:03:55,960
We're children, Marcella 
declared haughtily. 

2730
02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:59,200
We're supposed to be childish. 
The Hound laughed. 

2731
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:02,720
She has you there. 
I love that lie so much. 

2732
02:04:03,080 --> 02:04:04,640
We're childish. 
We're we're children. 

2733
02:04:04,640 --> 02:04:07,920
We're supposed to be childish. 
That's maybe one of the only 

2734
02:04:07,920 --> 02:04:09,240
times the Hound has ever laughed
too. 

2735
02:04:09,240 --> 02:04:10,520
I think it's notable for that 
reason too. 

2736
02:04:10,520 --> 02:04:17,160
Like Marcella can make the Hound
laugh only young girls can make,

2737
02:04:17,160 --> 02:04:19,400
Maybe Aria, maybe some. 
Because I think Aria did make 

2738
02:04:19,400 --> 02:04:21,920
her laugh once or make him laugh
once or twice too, even though I

2739
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:25,400
don't think she was trying to. 
I'm slightly like stepping over 

2740
02:04:25,400 --> 02:04:27,680
the line there too that day, you
know, like, yeah. 

2741
02:04:27,680 --> 02:04:29,720
And. 
The next one is like, Joffrey 

2742
02:04:29,720 --> 02:04:33,680
was beaten. 
He's like, fine, have your 

2743
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:36,280
little, you know, be your bait. 
Whatever he says, you know, he 

2744
02:04:36,280 --> 02:04:38,920
just gives in without while 
still denigrating them, you 

2745
02:04:38,920 --> 02:04:41,520
know? 
So yeah, that was really good. 

2746
02:04:41,520 --> 02:04:43,600
I love that moment. 
Lots of stuff happens at 

2747
02:04:43,600 --> 02:04:46,040
tournaments great and small, 
whether it's a tournament of 

2748
02:04:46,040 --> 02:04:51,720
gnats like Sandor says, where 
where Dontos gets drunk, or a 

2749
02:04:51,720 --> 02:04:55,840
giant tournament of Harrenhal 
where more things could happen 

2750
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:57,440
that we could possibly talk 
about in one episode. 

2751
02:04:57,440 --> 02:04:59,080
You know, it's kind of funny 
that we've never done an episode

2752
02:04:59,120 --> 02:05:00,560
squarely on the tournament of 
Harrenhal. 

2753
02:05:00,920 --> 02:05:03,840
Maybe someday. 
And from little things like that

2754
02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:08,160
to people like Sansa. 
Sansa at this Tournament of Nats

2755
02:05:08,440 --> 02:05:11,680
behaved like a knight. 
Behaved like what Sansa hate, 

2756
02:05:11,680 --> 02:05:13,480
what? 
The real version of what she 

2757
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:16,400
thought was all glory and 
flowers and victories. 

2758
02:05:16,800 --> 02:05:20,600
She stood up for Dantos, risked 
her life to do it and saved him,

2759
02:05:20,680 --> 02:05:23,040
you know, only for Littlefinger 
to kill him later. 

2760
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:28,720
But still, the action was 
notable and it was meaningful, 

2761
02:05:28,720 --> 02:05:31,200
not just to Dantos, not just to 
her, not just to his readers, 

2762
02:05:31,200 --> 02:05:32,880
but to people like Sandor around
her. 

2763
02:05:33,080 --> 02:05:36,880
Sandor gained a lot more respect
for Sansa because of what she 

2764
02:05:36,880 --> 02:05:39,560
did for for Dantos, and he 
backed her up. 

2765
02:05:39,560 --> 02:05:42,040
Remember, he's like, she's like,
it's it's bad luck to kill 

2766
02:05:42,040 --> 02:05:44,320
someone your name day. 
And Joffrey's like what? 

2767
02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:46,840
I never heard that. 
And Sandor backs the lie. 

2768
02:05:46,840 --> 02:05:49,600
He's like, I've heard that, I've
heard that they say that. 

2769
02:05:49,720 --> 02:05:52,320
And he's like, fine, all right, 
yeah. 

2770
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:55,400
This this moment, this, this. 
This little gnats tournament was

2771
02:05:55,640 --> 02:05:58,720
crucial. 
Sandor Sansa character building 

2772
02:05:58,800 --> 02:06:00,880
and connecting, building, the 
connecting building, whatever 

2773
02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:05,240
that it worked. 
It did they fusing, bonding, 

2774
02:06:05,240 --> 02:06:08,360
whatever. 
They became closer and it's good

2775
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:11,680
stuff. 
I believe that is all the extra 

2776
02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:12,800
tournaments I was going to 
mention. 

2777
02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:15,840
So I think that's it for today. 
You have a question? 

2778
02:06:16,240 --> 02:06:17,280
Trivia question. 
That's right. 

2779
02:06:17,280 --> 02:06:18,720
Yeah. 
I was making sure we had nothing

2780
02:06:18,720 --> 02:06:22,320
else to do before that. 
The trivia question was which 

2781
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:25,200
knight defeated someone in the 
hands tourney and then killed 

2782
02:06:25,200 --> 02:06:30,080
them for real later. 
The answer is Loris Tyrell. 

2783
02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:34,400
Loris Tyrell defeated Robar 
Royce in the tournament and then

2784
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:41,760
killed him in anger when Renly 
was slain because M and Kai and 

2785
02:06:41,760 --> 02:06:43,560
Robar Royce were guarding the 
tent. 

2786
02:06:43,560 --> 02:06:46,760
And Loris, it was furious that 
they failed to protect him and 

2787
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:51,120
killed them both. 
He has since realized the error 

2788
02:06:51,120 --> 02:06:53,280
of his ways there. 
And yeah, that's probably 

2789
02:06:53,280 --> 02:06:55,680
weighing on him pretty severely 
because they did nothing wrong. 

2790
02:06:56,120 --> 02:06:58,560
But yeah, he killed them both. 
He killed M and Kai and Robar 

2791
02:06:58,560 --> 02:07:02,000
Royce in his roath. 
So there you go. 

2792
02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:04,920
I bet a lot of people were 
thinking of Gregor and or maybe 

2793
02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:07,080
the Hound or even Jamie maybe 
but. 

2794
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:09,240
Yeah, there were people that 
thought of Gregor and the Hound.

2795
02:07:09,240 --> 02:07:12,400
They're like, wait, the Hound 
isn't a night, so it can't be 

2796
02:07:12,400 --> 02:07:13,680
hanging out. 
They're thinking the barracks 

2797
02:07:13,960 --> 02:07:15,960
specifically with that. 
Barrack was in the tournament. 

2798
02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:17,240
That's a good call. 
Yeah, Barrack was in the 

2799
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:20,720
tournament briefly, but yeah, 
that's it. 

2800
02:07:20,720 --> 02:07:22,320
It was Loris. 
Yep. 

2801
02:07:22,320 --> 02:07:26,200
Robar, Royce, Robar Royce. 
The Royces were all over under 

2802
02:07:26,200 --> 02:07:28,360
the radar there. 
Jan Royce was in a couple of 

2803
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:31,160
these tournaments as a 
competitor and then they just 

2804
02:07:31,160 --> 02:07:33,400
went home after the tournament 
and it would have been nice for 

2805
02:07:33,400 --> 02:07:35,640
them to stick around because Ned
really could have used a Royce 

2806
02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:38,400
Royce's help. 
When things started to go South 

2807
02:07:39,280 --> 02:07:43,240
in the South, we mentioned a few
of our other episodes. 

2808
02:07:43,240 --> 02:07:46,200
We mentioned our Elaine T Wow 
coverage that we actually have 

2809
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:48,560
two versions of that. 
We have a recent one that we did

2810
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:51,280
with Radio Westeros and one that
we did much longer ago. 

2811
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:53,400
Right when it was released. 
Right when it was released. 

2812
02:07:53,400 --> 02:07:55,720
So both versions have different 
things in them. 

2813
02:07:55,720 --> 02:07:58,520
There is some overlap of course,
but we we endeavored to keep 

2814
02:07:58,520 --> 02:08:01,000
them as different as possible. 
So they're both worth listening 

2815
02:08:01,000 --> 02:08:03,800
to if you haven't already or are
thinking of a re listen. 

2816
02:08:04,440 --> 02:08:08,520
We certainly tunked talked a lot
about tournaments during Duncan 

2817
02:08:08,520 --> 02:08:09,760
Egg. 
That's where the unk came from. 

2818
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:13,240
So certainly during mostly 
during the hedge night and the 

2819
02:08:13,240 --> 02:08:14,720
mystery night. 
Obviously the Sworn Sword has a 

2820
02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:17,160
lot less tournament stuff in it,
but if you're looking for a 

2821
02:08:17,160 --> 02:08:20,360
little more, check out those two
series. 

2822
02:08:20,360 --> 02:08:22,920
They're both 4 episodes long, 
each one including the Sworn 

2823
02:08:22,920 --> 02:08:24,880
Sword 1. 
So 12 episodes on Duncan Egg, 

2824
02:08:24,880 --> 02:08:28,240
plus The Wrap Up, which was the 
13th episode, but it's a lucky 

2825
02:08:28,240 --> 02:08:29,800
one. 
It's not an unlucky 13th, it's a

2826
02:08:29,800 --> 02:08:34,440
lucky 13th. 
You can also find all of our 

2827
02:08:34,440 --> 02:08:38,160
other episodes on Spotify or 
Apple Music or Google Play, 

2828
02:08:38,160 --> 02:08:40,520
wherever you find podcasts. 
You can also find them on 

2829
02:08:40,520 --> 02:08:44,080
Patreon where you can find bonus
episodes as well as the ones on 

2830
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:45,800
Spotify. 
We have bonus episodes on both. 

2831
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,000
You can sign up to be a regular 
subscriber and get access to 

2832
02:08:49,000 --> 02:08:52,880
those as well as other bonus 
content, things like voting in 

2833
02:08:52,880 --> 02:08:55,840
polls, access to our scripts and
notes, things like that. 

2834
02:08:56,760 --> 02:08:58,800
Thanks as well to Nina for her 
notes. 

2835
02:08:58,880 --> 02:09:02,000
Super valuable as always. 
Got a lot of great discussion 

2836
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:03,440
points in there. 
Things we wouldn't have noticed.

2837
02:09:03,640 --> 02:09:06,520
Some tidbits from history as 
well as in world. 

2838
02:09:06,520 --> 02:09:08,920
And thanks as well to Kevin for 
our music. 

2839
02:09:08,920 --> 02:09:13,120
Thanks to Michael for our maps, 
and to Jesse Koval and Joey 

2840
02:09:13,120 --> 02:09:14,680
Townsend for our regular intro 
music. 

2841
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:18,800
Thanks to everyone who came and 
watched live and participated in

2842
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:21,200
the chat. 
And thanks to anyone who listens

2843
02:09:21,200 --> 02:09:23,360
at any time. 
We do appreciate your 

2844
02:09:23,360 --> 02:09:27,400
listenership, your watcherness, 
whatever, however you choose to 

2845
02:09:27,400 --> 02:09:31,440
consume history of Westeros. 
I want to say I wish I brought 

2846
02:09:31,440 --> 02:09:34,280
this up earlier, but anyone 
who's going to be at this con in

2847
02:09:34,280 --> 02:09:38,240
LA, come up and say hi, please. 
I'm excited to meet people so. 

2848
02:09:38,560 --> 02:09:40,640
Absolutely. 
That goes for any con we're at, 

2849
02:09:40,640 --> 02:09:44,480
whether the year 2022 or beyond.
We are. 

2850
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,400
We go to a decent number of 
conventions, partly because we 

2851
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:49,680
like going, but also partly 
because we learn a lot of things

2852
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:51,120
there. 
A lot of our scoops come from 

2853
02:09:51,400 --> 02:09:53,760
conventions. 
A lot of people we meet and 

2854
02:09:53,760 --> 02:09:56,680
network with that give us later 
opportunities and friendships. 

2855
02:09:57,120 --> 02:09:58,560
Happen in conventions? 
Same thing. 

2856
02:09:58,560 --> 02:10:01,480
We would not have had our 
interview with George RR Martin 

2857
02:10:01,480 --> 02:10:04,120
if we hadn't gone to conventions
and 'cause we didn't, I don't 

2858
02:10:04,120 --> 02:10:06,040
know if y'all know, but like, we
didn't ask for that. 

2859
02:10:06,040 --> 02:10:09,120
Like, like that was offered to 
us because of the, you know, we 

2860
02:10:09,120 --> 02:10:11,840
put the work in, but we didn't, 
we didn't send them an e-mail 

2861
02:10:11,840 --> 02:10:13,040
and be like, hey, can we do 
this? 

2862
02:10:13,040 --> 02:10:15,760
So yeah. 
It's basically the same concept 

2863
02:10:15,760 --> 02:10:17,160
we just described with 
tournaments. 

2864
02:10:17,160 --> 02:10:19,920
Like you want FaceTime with the 
people who, like you said, who 

2865
02:10:19,920 --> 02:10:23,800
are important or who have, who 
have pull in the industry or in 

2866
02:10:23,800 --> 02:10:27,000
the community or in the fandom. 
They you got to go to 

2867
02:10:27,000 --> 02:10:28,560
conventions. 
That's, that's, that's the way 

2868
02:10:28,560 --> 02:10:31,040
of it, you know, and, and that's
not necessarily true for 

2869
02:10:31,040 --> 02:10:32,920
everyone, but it's definitely 
true for us being doing what we 

2870
02:10:32,920 --> 02:10:35,920
do. 
And that's also a kind of like 

2871
02:10:36,000 --> 02:10:37,880
the tournaments. 
This is sort of like these meta 

2872
02:10:37,880 --> 02:10:40,280
values. 
But the the panels themselves 

2873
02:10:40,280 --> 02:10:41,960
are very enlightening and 
insightful. 

2874
02:10:41,960 --> 02:10:43,040
And yeah. 
I learned a lot going. 

2875
02:10:43,040 --> 02:10:44,240
I like going. 
I mean, I've done a lot of 

2876
02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:46,240
panels, but I go, I tend a lot 
of panels too. 

2877
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:48,880
I really do enjoy that process 
of listening to what people have

2878
02:10:48,880 --> 02:10:51,920
to say because people choose 
really clever off the beaten 

2879
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:55,720
path topics a lot of times. 
And some of them are not off the

2880
02:10:55,720 --> 02:10:56,920
beaten path. 
They're just really good, you 

2881
02:10:56,920 --> 02:11:01,160
know, like, like music, stuff 
that takes a special kind of 

2882
02:11:01,360 --> 02:11:04,360
analysis or or education to be 
able to speak to properly or 

2883
02:11:04,840 --> 02:11:09,000
acting or costuming or literary 
analysis, things like that. 

2884
02:11:09,000 --> 02:11:11,400
Just any you name it, how to 
costume, how to. 

2885
02:11:11,400 --> 02:11:13,240
Yeah. 
So that they have a lot of 

2886
02:11:13,240 --> 02:11:15,160
things in common. 
FaceTime with important people 

2887
02:11:15,160 --> 02:11:20,400
cosplay fun. 
Usually modern conventions don't

2888
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:25,640
have people dying, but you're. 
Going to twitch con and you'll 

2889
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:26,920
have someone breaking their 
back. 

2890
02:11:27,040 --> 02:11:32,080
You do have injuries though. 
Yeah, usually drunken, but not 

2891
02:11:32,080 --> 02:11:34,480
always. 
I had another thought, by the 

2892
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:39,840
way of attorney thing, that a 
new house was born at that 

2893
02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:41,920
tournament. 
That dunk was at right the fossa

2894
02:11:41,920 --> 02:11:43,280
way. 
Oh, the green apples. 

2895
02:11:43,760 --> 02:11:46,200
Yeah. 
Hey, great point. 

2896
02:11:46,200 --> 02:11:48,480
Yeah, it's true. 
I think about that I'm. 

2897
02:11:48,520 --> 02:11:51,320
Especially upset I didn't think 
of it because my drink had they 

2898
02:11:51,320 --> 02:11:54,240
have a new apple flavored Red 
Bull that I mixed into my Oh 

2899
02:11:54,240 --> 02:11:54,960
yeah. 
How is that? 

2900
02:11:54,960 --> 02:11:57,400
It was good. 
It's pretty good, yeah. 

2901
02:11:57,720 --> 02:12:01,960
Better than the regular I mean. 
I think it's better than 

2902
02:12:01,960 --> 02:12:02,640
regular. 
I don't like. 

2903
02:12:02,640 --> 02:12:05,160
Regular Red Bulls where it's not
either the flavor of regular. 

2904
02:12:05,160 --> 02:12:07,640
Red Bull is like, to me, right 
on. 

2905
02:12:07,640 --> 02:12:08,400
That's all. 
It's Apple. 

2906
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:09,600
I'm like, I'll try it. 
It's fine. 

2907
02:12:10,400 --> 02:12:11,400
Not as good as Mountain Dew, 
but. 

2908
02:12:11,400 --> 02:12:12,360
Did it give you wings? 
I. 

2909
02:12:13,880 --> 02:12:16,520
Have wings anyway, so. 
I didn't get more wings, didn't 

2910
02:12:16,520 --> 02:12:19,080
get longer. 
They turned from Angel wings to 

2911
02:12:19,080 --> 02:12:20,440
dragon wings. 
There you go. 

2912
02:12:20,440 --> 02:12:25,560
That's an improving OK folks. 
With that last bit of Apple Red 

2913
02:12:25,560 --> 02:12:29,240
Bull knowledge and wings, we say
adieu for this time. 

2914
02:12:29,240 --> 02:12:31,680
Remember no episode next week, 
but we'll be back in two weeks 

2915
02:12:31,680 --> 02:12:34,880
and won't have another break 
until January for Mag Fest when 

2916
02:12:34,880 --> 02:12:36,760
Shaya is going to be gone. 
Yeah, I'll be in Maryland for 

2917
02:12:36,760 --> 02:12:38,640
Mag Fest. 
If you're going to the Music and

2918
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:40,600
Gaming Festival, she's about 
video games. 

2919
02:12:40,880 --> 02:12:43,720
Yeah, so we'll see you all in 
two weeks. 

2920
02:12:43,720 --> 02:12:45,200
In the meantime, you know what 
to do. 

2921
02:12:45,800 --> 02:12:50,480
Valar re watches and Valar re 
read us.