The number one question that people have asked me for the
last 30 years, and I don't care if it's a celebrity, or someone
on Instagram or one of the readers of my books is, what
should I eat? Jorge, people are confused.
And in today's modern world, it's not our fault.
There are over 70,000 things at a grocery store and the
confusion. Factored is crazy.
And with celebrities like Kim Kardashian telling a seat Beyond
me, which is synthetic or, you know, this is my Bill Gates.
Now investing billions of dollars into I mean, you know,
now they're more options and protein in my opinion if you
would have zero hunger is probably the most satiating way
to break fast, whether you faster not doesn't matter.
But now the question is doing synthetic meat plant based meat
or do we real me? So on today's show we're going
to sit down with probably the leading expert on this topic is
a Rob wolf. He's the author of a book called
the sacred cow and today's interviews provocative.
I mean, if you've seen Kim Kardashian recently, she's been
promoting Beyond me as Taste expert and she is a very
intelligible and beautiful. You guys know I was on Revenge
body with her sister, Khloe Kardashian and I know there are
Force for good out there but with certain people endorse
something we can get confused. And the question is, is a
synthetic meat healthy Force? You know, is it what our
ancestors did? We obviously know the answer to
that, it isn't. So today's show we go deep, we
find out about ancestral Health, we understand the science of
what our Species was really designed to eat and how these
modern foods can be an option. But are they an option that is
actually better for our health? And the biggest question out
there and I think it's the most important social question out
there, is it better for the planet all that on today's show?
Hi, my name is Jorge cruise but I'm also known as the zero
hunger guy, I'm a celebrity fitness trainer and a multiple
New York Times best-selling Diet author with 12 million fans.
You may have seen my work with Oprah Winfrey, Khloe Kardashian,
Kelly, Clarkson or even Steve Harvey.
My career started because I was addicted to Sugar carbs, salty,
snacks, and stress and experts told me to Simply count calories
to get control. They were wrong.
Wrong my passion to get radical control over both physical and
emotional health, has led me to find Science proven shortcuts
that help my clients, drop 25 belly inches or even more fast,
and permanently and I know I can help you too, welcome to the
zero hunger Revolution. All right, so before we get
started, today's show with Rob wolf, I want to give a special
thanks to our sponsor, is a big shout-out to Primal kitchen for
supporting the zero, great podcast for the last couple of
years. They're giving all of us a free
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by zero longer wider. Now, zero hunger.
Wider, you guys know, is the way I turn off hunger and we have
just launched a brand new email club that I would invite you to.
And basically, every week, we sent out an email, with the
latest in hydration, and knowing that, if you want to quench your
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electrolytes are, the Kiedis. And zero hunger is really a
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It's going to change your life, check it out.
Ro hunger water.com sign it up for the club.
It's totally free and you learn a lot about the science of
appetite control super gay, all right, with that said, let's get
started with today's show. A big thank you to Rob will for
being on the show. And really, guys go into this
with an open mind and if you're a vegan, if your plant based,
we're not going to Poopoo the plant base world at all because
there's a place for plants in our diet.
There really isn't. Many of us can survive on that.
But the question is, what will cause us to thrive I've and what
Rob wolf is going to share with us is an ancestral blueprint
based on millions of years and what our species, the human
species did to Survive and Thrive.
And I think it's going to be an eye-opening discussion and I
hope you share this with your loved ones.
So let's get started right now. We're talking to Rob wealth, we
love Rob. Well if he's been on the podcast
so many times I've lost count but today, we're talking about
something really timely in the news and this is this idea of
plant-based meat. What some people called soon.
Tricked me and Beyond me recently, brought on a new
spokesperson, probably one of the most famous women on earth,
Kim Kardashian. And when I saw this, I reached
out to Rob literally the day I saw it, and I said, Rob, let's
talk about this because this is so timely.
He's the author of a book called the case, for better meet the
sacred, which is brilliant. It's also documentary, Rob.
Please say hi to everyone. Hi, everyone.
Y'all are doing well, Rob. I feel like your passion, remind
everyone. How you got into health?
Because I feel like you like me got into this out of necessity,
right? Rob.
Yeah, yeah, 23 years ago. I was very sick.
Ulcerative colitis, bad enough that I was facing a bowel
resection which basically, they go in and trim out parts of the
real estate that you really would rather not have removed.
And at the time, I was eating a high carb, low fat vegan diet
and I think that a vegan diet can work wonderfully, for some
people, for me, it didn't. I have celiac These which is an
autoimmune gluten reactivity. And I just I don't do that well
with a lot of carbs, a lot of fiber, I'm not 100% carnivore.
But over time, I've grown in that direction and I've found a
lot of success with that, I went on to co-found the first and
fourth CrossFit, affiliate gyms in the world, and ended up
working for CrossFit for a number of years.
If people like CrossFit, they think that's cool.
If they hate CrossFit that I'm kind of like the guy that spread
herpes on a college campus by helping to promote all that
stuff that I've worked with. With people, I was on the naval
special Warfare resiliency committee for about eight years
where I went and spoke to the Navy Seals.
They're the special boat teams and then also their families
about sleep and food and circadian biology.
And what not? And I've worked with Olympic
athletes. But really, the people that I
bonded with the most are people like me folks that had really
complex, gut and autoimmune issues.
They ran the gamut of standard medical interventions and they
were made He helped a little bit but they were still sick.
Ultimately, they still have a lot of problems and those are
really my people. I think that there's lots of
ways to lose weight. I think there's lots of ways to
get skinny, but when you get these really complex gut and
autoimmune diseases, I think that one's options are very
limited and interestingly what I find to be particularly
effective, there is this kind of ketogenic, lower carb.
Maybe carnivore ish type approach and I've found nothing
in the world Superior. That to the tune that I've
actually made some challenges with some of the prominent vegan
doctors out there that also work in the same space that we would
take 100 people and we would gut an autoimmune conditions.
They treat them, I treat them and whichever one of us wins the
other one, closes up shop, disappears off the internet.
Can't do health and wellness. Ever again, basically like a
Gracie UFC Challenge and nobody is taking me, nobody's taking me
up on that yet. So, I'm pretty confident that
This is a really effective way of doing things but I always use
it as a beginning place. It's not a religious Doctrine
for me, it's of like playing darts.
I think that this kind of ancestral health model, it'll
get most people about 85% to the bullseye and then we'll need to
figure out what we need to do to get each individual person to
that Bullseye. I love that.
And you mentioned a word there that maybe we can play with and
CEST real Health. Yeah, I feel like I've been
blessed and it's the gift of covid-19.
I don't know why that, as much as I was doing the podcast
beforehand, I was doing in Malibu back from the day, and I
have people come out to Malibu marxists and all this kind of
stuff. Brooke Burke.
And it was fun, but because of zoom, and now, we've got this
kind of Technology where the qualities even better.
It feels like you're right there.
And now we've I've spoken, everyone, dr.
Paul salad. Incredible Book, the carnivore
code, right? Sister wrote the introduction to
Mark's dear friend love Mark and he's the creator of Primal
kitchen and cry love avocados and he's made mayo and salad.
Dressing That. And now he is the one that told
me about this ancestral way of being, because he wrote these
books, the Primal methods and all that, he's known as The
Godfather of, I think the Godfather of that Revolution.
You're really the science behind all that take us down memory
lane, take us back a couple hundred thousand years as a
species because I think if we look at a apology and we look at
what we did, as a species is this, where a lot of the logic
comes from? Because when I talk to whether
it's a celebrity you and I were With Khloe Kardashian on Revenge
body and I love, Kim Kardashian. I think they're great, but I
feel like they're very intelligent people out there.
Even people like Bill Gates, that maybe forgot this part of
just putting together one and one equaling to.
Because if you were to share a few minutes of our species, it
makes sense that our bodies are designed based on.
I know, Mark Sisson says, you can go back up to two million
years and we kind of a similar diet up until maybe 10,000.
Or so years ago, take us through what happened.
Then but take us back to what we were doing because as a species
as a race of humans, it seems that our bodies have adapted for
way of eating that you just said is very simple.
And I think that's your argument in the sacred cow to some
degree. It's just following this
ancestral blueprint, shall we call it or take it away?
Yeah, yeah, it's something. That is oftentimes more
accessible for people, interesting lie, when talking
about like species-appropriate nutrition is actually not
talking about humans for. So I live in Montana and we have
grizzly bears here and we have a yeah Yellowstone National Park.
And there are prominent signs whenever you go into these parks
and natural areas, don't feed the animals and there's multiple
reasons for this. One of the reasons is that they
don't want these huge powerful animals to become, used to
obtaining food from humans because then they associate
humans with food and then humans may become food and everyone.
From last, somebody will call that would be addressed, so
that's a big deal. But another deeper part of this
is that when humans feed these animals non appropriate food,
these animals get sick, these animals, develop type 2,
diabetes, and cardiovascular disease, and all kinds of
different problems. We see this a lot in zoos like
my daughter's. Watch a lot of these zuper
secrets of the zoo where they it's like a Veterinary show
where they look at the way. The animals are managed and I
Had my girls right into the producers of the show and asked
them, why given that all these animals have all these digestive
issues, and all these different health issues, why don't they
try to feed them or species-appropriate Diet?
We actually got a really thoughtful response and that
they're actually moving that direction over time because many
people have written in and said, hey, you're feeding these
chimpanzees biscuits that have, like, wheat and sugar, and all
that stuff. And maybe once in a while, you
could do that. But you're giving it to them
every day. And clearly, this isn't part of
their ancestral diet and this makes sense for folks when we
talk about it, in terms of like bears and chimpanzees and
elephants and stuff like that and we see examples very quickly
in these like that Veterinary. Like reality shows when they
change the diet of an animal to a more species, appropriate
diet, magical things, happen for the animals Health with people,
though, it's weird. Pete folks are like, I don't
know, what a humans are supposed to eat.
Eat and humans over the course of it, lease, a couple of
million years have evolved as hunter-gatherers and depending
on, where on the planet and what resources are there.
Some hunter-gatherer groups, 8 prodigious amounts of me,
others, a larger amounts of plants, depending on what time
of the year, and what location people who lived closer to the
Equator, or there, tend to be more plant material available
all year round, folks, that migrated closer to the poles
where there's more seasonal Variation like the Inuit or
around the Arctic Circle, very little plant material.
And what the one interesting thing that seems to emerge out
of that is when these folks ate a largely whole minimally
processed diet and ancestral diet, it was appropriate to the
location theory that they were in very little in the way of
what we would consider modern degenerative disease.
They weren't overweight, they weren't diabetic, they didn't
have gut and autoimmune issues. And then, as these folks started
to incorporate westernize Foods sugars, refined flours, seed,
oils, all that type of stuff. We saw a shift in their health
and what's confusing about this is in the online World.
It boils down to like high card versus low card usually and it's
that the high carb Camp is usually vegan.
And the lower carb Camp is carnivore esker.
At least meet inclusive. And I think that really misses
the Mark. I think that in general, human
should be able to exist on really.
Wide variety of foods. I think that some people like
myself, if you get some funky gut issues and health issues
than you may end up getting more along, one track versus another
and they end up doing much better on a lower carb site of
things. But I think that getting into
the diet Wars is actually a distraction.
The big story here is that if we focus on minimally processed
Whole Foods and then pay attention to, how do we look,
how do we feel? How do we perform?
When we eat a particular way we can figure out how to to steer
things in the direction that we need.
But we start with that kind of minimally processed diet with an
eye towards the way that that our species evolved.
And what goes along with that is strong Community being outside
and getting sun on our skin and good circadian entrainment.
So that it we're living in synchrony, with the light-dark
Cycles. Some thought about our gut
microbiome in the importance of the bacteria that live in us and
on us those things. All go into this kind of
ancestral health model. It's incredible.
And the thing that happened only what I know the debates.
I've heard some people say seven thousand years ago or ten
thousand years ago. I watched the Marvel Comics
movie. The eternals.
Did you ever see that show? Which only where they came from
space and they taught us all these things.
And that was about 7,000 years ago, they taught us Agriculture
and that's just a movie obviously but somehow there is
an overlay approximately. Is that about right?
Rob, tell us what happens. Something happens less than
10,000 or so years ago. Right.
Where we started. Yeah.
So not be but Nomads and we started to plant seeds in the
ground. But up until then, we were, as
you said hunters and I've heard gather as they say, we gathered
the debate is when we gather, and I've heard people say it was
more like toads and crickets and newts more animals, still a
little creek. That's how much berries berries.
I've never seen the berry grow that I could eat anywhere.
Like I walk around San Diego, La, New York's, aren't any
berries ID? I don't know what I would.
Gather hunt. I get I've seen animals I could
Lived in Malibu with there were deer in the backyard.
So things like that, I get that and obviously they could attack
you or scratch you. But once you get them, you can
eat them in safe. I think what was that
transition? Take us at that point because
then I always. I love dr.
James Nina Clay Antonio. He talks about how only 100 or
so years ago, we invented the next thing which was the
refrigerator. So then route is to do a whole
other way of living because before we, if we were eating
protein, we added salt and I know we love Scouts you and I
it's a yak 10,000. Tell us about a little bit was
meat and salt, right? Because we had to preserve it
and then 100 years ago this thing called the refrigerator
and then I think our history classes Complete because then
let's talk about Kim Kardashian. Okay, okay okay.
Yeah yeah. Kim is the the end of History.
Yeah. Yeah.
It least 15,000 years ago, all humans on the planet were living
as foragers as hunter-gatherers and one more time.
That's a profound statement. Please.
Yeah. There's Very little debate, that
at least 15,000 years ago, all humans on the planet lived as
hunter-gatherers or we would call them.
And again, I think that depending on where on the planet
people are, or were their diet would be made up of different
things. And some of the early
descriptions of the Gathering part in this comes from more
LED, Paul saladino where a lot of what was gathered was
actually small animals, would newts, and turtles, and
different things like that. It was always assumed that B,
plant material but that's not necessarily the case.
And this is some of the updating that science always goes through
but somewhere around 10,000 years ago in at least three
places, a transition began to occur and it was the Fertile
Crescent in the Middle East somewhere in the middle areas of
China and then also in the Americas and and Central and
South America, Proto Incan and Mayan civilizations people
started shifting away from exclusively.
Eight hunter-gatherer, foraging type of existence and started
moving into an agricultural existence.
Where we would really rely strongly on a few kind of
starchy crops like in the Americas, it was more corn and
potato type crops in the China. It was more of a rice-based and
to some degree sorghum. Although the Sorghum was much
more prominent in kind of Africa in the Middle East, but Africa.
In the Middle East. It was more.
We try sorghum. Those types of cereal grains.
Yeah. But there was a massive
transition that occurred and people cease to move around for
the most part. And we also had mixed into this
pastoral. It's like, if people get into
coal type reading and understanding, then you add
hunter-gatherers, you also add pastoralists who are people, who
move animals around so they're not in one place, they're not,
they are eating the animals, but they're not going out hunting
the animals there. Julie, stewarding, the animals,
and so sheep, and goats, and cattle, and all, that type of
stuff. So important to, that was the
only scoreless. Sorry.
I think he's about 15,000 years ago.
Rob, just remind us that time stories and probably started
about the time to agriculture did and I'm not a huge expert on
that stuff but probably more like that.
Seven to ten thousand years ago that we started seeing both
pastoralists and agricultural is and somebody listening will be
an expert on that and they'll set a straight as to the There
You Go. The real dates but those are the
Oof demarcations. And one thing that's important
to mention is that every time someone puts a date and draws a
Line in the Sand with the date, they're like the were only
hunter-gatherers 15,000 years ago.
Then we find a site where people are processing grains or legumes
or something. That's eighteen thousand years
old. So those dates keep getting
pushed back but by and large artifacts that we find in the
evidence that we see, is that for the most part people were
hunter-gatherers foragers up until About 10,000 years ago.
And then we started seeing a transition like in North
America, other than the Pueblo Indians that were in the desert,
Southwest like, most of North America was still largely in
that hunter-gatherer forager kind of experience up until
maybe a couple of hundred years ago and there's some exceptions
like the Chickasaw had developed, some pretty
sophisticated Chickasaw Choctaw, had developed some, pretty
sophisticated agriculture, the three sisters, the And the beans
and squash all grown together because they provide complete
protein, they help re nutrify the soil.
But there were also still in that transitional period of
hunters and gatherers whatnot. But they the big the change from
hunting and Gathering to agriculture was a massive
change. And we see some definite.
I guess artifacts of that in the archaeological record.
People got shorter, people had many more Dental issues.
The infant mortality rates appeared.
Skyrocket by comparison to hunter-gatherers and that was
largely our situation up until pretty recently.
In history, like the average lifespan had dropped within
hunter-gatherers. The, if you neglected, High
infant mortality rate, they were about as likely to live into
their 70s. As we are, in modern times,
like, pretty pretty Remarkable Health, but a very high infant
mortality rate that actually got worse during agriculture.
So this is Worth mentioning people will say live
hunter-gatherers only live this long.
Why would I want to eat that way?
When they when folks developed agricultural practices that
actually lost about another 10 years like in the Roman era, the
average lifespan was like in the 20s.
So it was a very short period of time because of the low quality
of the food people living on top of each other without the
benefit of antibiotics and modern medicine and
understanding that if you pee and poo in your water that it's
going to kill you and Neighbors and stuff.
Yes, please do. So yeah, those were all huge
transitions but it's worth arguing and you alluded to this
the last hundred years have really seen the most rapid
change that we've ever experienced in.
Our history doesn't start with the refrigerator.
Would you agree possibly? I don't know that, that was a
big piece of it. Because what we started refining
food in Mass, we had huge amounts of grains.
That's who we started processing and ways that we had never
really Assess, we started getting huge amounts of seed
oils. We started getting large amounts
of sugar and like around the 1940s 1950s as were all the
stuff really started. Taking off a bunch of the
Innovation that occurred during WWII and prior to World War Two.
There's this thing called the haber-bosch process which is a
method of taking, a lot of energy from burning fossil
fuels, and then taking nitrogen out of the atmosphere and making
ammonia, which can be used as fertilizer.
Laser, which is fantastic for growing food, or you can make
bombs and ammunition with it. Which was part of the reason why
it was developed during wartime. And then, after wartime, we're
sitting on this ability to make huge amounts of ammonia.
And prior to that, people would go and mine different islands
that were built out of bird droppings over millions of
years. So the guano from bats and birds
and whatnot were mine to be used for both ammunition explosives,
be in and also as fertilizer. But when we figure it, Out the
haber-bosch process. We were able to manufacture
nitrogen. Fertilizer nitrogen based
explosives in a way that we had never been able to do before and
that was the beginning of this, massive industrialization of our
food system, this began a shift that around 2007, nobody knows
the exact date on this but somewhere around 2007 at a
global level. More people began dying from
chronic Generative diseases of affluence then were dying from
deficiency diseases like starvation and malaria,
infectious disease throughout all of history prior to that
that rough date of around 2007 malnutrition under nutrition and
disease. Infectious disease, were the
number one killers of humans on the planet but somewhere around
that time. We reached this point where the
human diet had gotten sufficiently bad and also as a
Planet. As a people on this planet, we
become sufficiently wealthy that.
We can feed ourselves in such a way that people get sick enough
to die. Not from infectious disease, not
from malnutrition, but from over nutrition.
And that really it's the refined sugars, the refined flours, the
when one walks into a supermarket and average
supermarket has something like 55,000 different food, like
items in it and the vast majority of it.
Is this highly processed long shelf life stuff that doesn't
remotely look like anything that our grandparents would even know
what to make sense of. It's like our grandparents, it's
like ketchup, mayonnaise, maybe hot sauce and it that's about
it. Where is now?
We there's this product. Now what's called a power law in
the power laws where highly intense things happen, very
infrequently and then less intense, things happen in a
longer kind of curve. And there's all kinds of things
in that. Natural world that follow a
power law. But when you're several decades
ago, looked at the way that addiction occurs with things
like cocaine and whatnot. If you put the stove there's a
whole all kinds of interesting stuff with this.
If you have animals particularly my sitter in an enriched
environment, they have a lot of interesting stuff going on.
They don't get addicted to cocaine in the water, they have
more meaning in my life. What?
Yeah. Yeah, they have more meaning in
their life if they're in an environment in which they're
cognitively. Stimulated then it's very easy
to get addicted, but if you really want to a dick them, you
don't have a consistent amount of cocaine in the water.
You have a little bit, sometimes a lot other times and you
randomize it and then each time, the mouse goes back to the
water. It's who is this a big one?
Or a little one this time and that anticipatory piece is what
really drives. This and this is where worked at
the Modern apex of the industrialization of our food
system where we have these Food scientists that really
understand our evolutionary biology.
Like, all of this stuff is informed by an understanding of
ancestral health of our hunter-gatherer past.
That's why they're using it. In a way to make a shitload of
money off of us because we're standing here, right?
Rob, we're really being honest. That they know what we know, but
they're using it. I don't want to say this is like
Star Wars but like it's the dark side.
It is. It's so here's a funny thing,
here's kite, it's funny. But in a Gallows humor, sort of
way, when I wrote this letter, To the folks about the Doritos
roulette. And I asked them about the power
law deal. I didn't expect to get a
response back at all, but it was only two days later in this.
Very nice woman, wrote me back and she's like, hey, Rob first,
I've got to tell you all of the scientists here are huge fans of
yours. They love your work and I was
like oh wow I think she went on to say yeah definitely does
follow a power law and everything.
These folks who work for these giant companies that Frito-Lay.
Yeah yeah. Yeah, I'd so the people who are
producing this junk food, these engineered Foods, really
understand the neural, regulation of appetite.
They really understand what causes us to overeat and why
that is why our current food environment is so different from
the environment that we evolved in.
And why that could really be a challenge going forward.
They understand this at a really high sophisticated level and
then most doctors. Most dietitians most Gatekeepers
that are supposed to protect us and our health have no idea what
we're talking about. Like the mentioning the neuro
regulation of appetite or ancestral health or they'll
just, oh, that's a fad diet. That's this, that's that.
So the people who are profiteering from the stuff,
really understand this material at a super high level.
And then the people who are supposed to be protecting us
protecting our health, don't understand this material at all.
It's like, it doesn't exist. Yeah, that Would traditionally
be nutritionist, who are these protectors out there?
Because I feel like you're doctors dieticians, you know
what I, yeah, I feel like, yeah, you're part of that.
But I know you're more, you're not the traditional
nutritionist, right? Robert.
You don't think of yourself as that.
Do you or do you maybe know in and the post covid world.
Most of what I talk about is fake news is conspiracy theory,
six night. There's plenty of randomized,
controlled trials that that I can pull the support, what my
backing is for this, but it's definitely not.
Within the accepted mainstream Dogma.
That's what are we told to do? Eat less move more and this is
something that I'll give a hat tip to CrossFit for do was a
movement. Maybe about 6 years ago, eight
years ago might have been even a little bit longer but the
exercise as medicine movement which was basically this idea
that the government was going to pay for a personal trainer for
everybody who's overweight, which sounds good on the
surface, but the details Is the devil is in the details.
The thing was, is that this was all going to be sponsored by
Coca-Cola, basically, and Coca-Cola within the mint
exercise, as medicine story, you were allowed to drink up to six
sweetened beverages per day was okay.
You just needed to offset that with an appropriate amount of
exercise, but I don't know what it would be.
It would be illegal. It would be illegal for a
dietitian or a trainer to mention that maybe those six
sweetened beverages that you're drinking could be problematic
for health, and fortunately, all of that stuff got scuttled.
But this is there's a bunch of stuff that I could think about
what that, but we'll both got cancelled if I talk about that
too much. But it's, this is some of the
stuff that we're on the one hand.
It's also a personal trainer for everybody.
It sounds guy, maybe and particularly after problematic.
Yeah. Yeah.
And so this was turning into that.
There's this process called regulatory capture where
industry has captured elements of the government in such a way
that they get to do whatever they want to do.
When it's again, it brings up these topics of like capitalism
and socialism and things that get people really angry and
difficult to talk about it, a high level, but this is stuff
that is happening within the food system.
And I know you wanted to talk about like, Kim Kardashian, like
impossible Foods, And Beyond me and all this type of stuff.
It's we guys on that rock because I want to show everyone,
this is what's on Kim. K's, I love her, I love their
family. I met a wonderful person.
Yeah, they're incredible caring people Kris Jenner.
I've worked with all of their phenomenal people.
I love them and I know I've never met Bill Gates but I know
he's a very smart man and I'm saying he and Kim are very much
in this. There's a new, there's a new
type of synthetic process plant now, and it's now it's protein,
but here I'll show in a clip of this.
Yeah. Yeah.
For you and better for the planet.
It's a simple change. That makes a really big
difference. Now that I'm Leon needs Chief
taste consultant. There's never been a better time
to go beyond. I believe so much in the
mission. All right, so beyond me.
That's what Kim Kardashian's talking about.
There's the other meat that Bill Gates talks about.
Tell us, what are these? Meet Rob.
And the honest truth is, I heard what she says, it's better for
the planet. It's better for us.
I'll let you get it from there. And that all would be awesome if
it was true. And that's where if you're
concerned about climate change, let me try to use an analogy
here, if we were, if each of us was a neurosurgeon, we're going
to perform brain surgery on someone in the person who's
going to live or die based off of our success.
You know, how good we are doing this stuff.
How likely are we to do this properly?
If we put on some goggles, that turn the world upside down and
backwards. So each time I move my right
hand to the right. It looks like it's going to the
left and my left hand to the left at.
So it basically, spins our world view it like our likelihood of
success is completely very unlikely there.
I'm going to suggest here and I'll try to build a case for it.
I don't want people to believe me just because you and I are
friends and we get along well, and we do a decent horse and
pony show, but I just want to suggest that maybe he's very
smart, very wealthy. Very influential people might
have this wrong. Bill Gates, might have this
wrong. Kim Kardashian might have this
wrong and I'm gonna try to support that without character,
assassinating them or doing anything like that.
Let's just deal with some facts but these meat Alternatives fall
into a couple of different categories.
One category is basically taking the products of industrial row,
crop production making grains making legumes like beans
basically growing with this. This meat is made out of it's
made out of it. Go ahead.
Corn, soy, protein, soy oil. If you look at the ingredients,
I should pull up the ingredients here, but it's and these are
super impressive or thinking these are carbs.
They're not proteins. How do they make it protein?
So we can pull protein out of corn.
We can pull protein out of soybeans like, soy, protein
isolate. Sometimes people will think
vegan, bodybuilders will use that type of stuff.
So any plant particularly something like a soybean will
have protein, it'll have carbs, and it'll have fat.
So just the soybean is maybe a good one to look at We can pull
the soybean oil out of that which can be used for cooking
and can be used as a food additive.
It can be hydrogenated, which isn't good for it, which
improves the shelf life. We have the soy protein, which
can be again, used in a variety of ways.
Sometimes people tofu is made out of soy protein.
That is it basically making a cheese out of a soy.
Milk is effectively the way that happens, and then we've got some
carbohydrate that is part of the swiping.
So You can build a lot of different interesting stuff out
of protein, carbs and fat. That's what all of our food is
made from. And this is one of the supposed
Promises of something like a very legume-based diet is, it's
got some proteins, got some carbs, got some fat, and I do
think, for a lot of people that could be part of a decent it in
ancestrally, informed diet. I think you can overdo that it
can be problematic for a lot of people and historically, folks
have eaten lady And they soak them for a day or two, rinse,
the water off, allow them to sprout, and then they eat them,
this does all kinds of interesting stuff it helps to
break down some of the anti nutrients that are in the
legumes that can cause gut and autoimmune issues.
It begins breaking down the proteins, it helps break down
the carbohydrates and so traditional cultures that have
eaten a lot of legumes like beans and lentils, they
traditionally have soaked in sprouted those and in the modern
era, we don't do that at all. With these types of foods.
Even greens traditionally were soaked in sprouted for the most
part. So things like Ezekiel bread and
oh gosh, the sourdough bread is an example where its
fermentation is allowed to occur.
In that helps to break down some of the gluten and all that type
of stuff. So there's all these traditional
methods, this is where like, the paleo diet concept is great.
But there are traditional methods of using these grains
and legumes that I think really improve the nutritional value of
them and can make them more accessible to a lot of people.
But These impossible foods and possible Burger Beyond Burger
Beyond me, they're built out of extracting protein, carbohydrate
fat, and different chemicals out of plant materials to make these
foods. And when you look at the
constituents that are in there, it's soybean oil, soy, protein,
and some highly processed materials, and even within the
dietetics community, when you look at what is In there.
There's some questions about is this actually healthy, because
it's highly processed food. What these things are, missing
are essential fats, iron zinc, magnesium potassium.
The things that we would actually get from Animal product
foods and also to some degree plant product foods, but there's
a bunch of nutrition there that just doesn't exist.
So, when Kim says, this is better for you.
That's really dubious because it's lacking a bunch of the
Ocean that we would get from real meat.
When she says, this is better for the planet, there's been a
life cycle analysis, comparing, impossible, foods, and beyond
meat type things with say, they like the White Oak pastures
grass-fed beef. And at the end of the day, when
you pasture-raised animals, it is a net carbon sink pulls more
carbon out of the atmosphere and puts it in the soil, then you
produce in the in that whole process.
And what was really interesting is it was the same company in
this was impossible Foods. I believe that was comparing
with white oak pastures, but two carbon offset eating one.
Impossible Burger you needed to eat one white oak pastures,
grass-fed beef, and it was a wash because it was like the
White Oak pastures sequestered like, for 40 units of carbon and
the, The Impossible Burger release four units of carbon and
eating both of them would It's basically a wash something.
That's important to mention here is that it's well understood
that this industrial row, crop food system processed.
It is used to make Beyond Burger and impossible foods and what
not we know that has an expiration date on it.
That is destroying the top soil of our farm lands.
We need a regenerative practice that includes animals and plants
being used in synchrony. It's very again all of our great
grandparents probably lived Farmed, it did something like
this, where they use? Both plants and animals but it's
well understood that these things produce more carbon
footprint than pastured meat, they damage the top soil.
So the claim that it's better for the environment is really
not accurate. And these companies have been
taken to task on this point, but they still are allowed to make
this claimed in this time where people are very concerned about
social justice topics, and whatnot.
And it absolutely rightfully. So, These impossible Foods
Beyond Burger type items are portrayed as some sort of a
better alternative to meat. But the interesting thing is
that both of the impossible burger and Beyond Burger, when
you buy like a one pound container of it is twice as
expensive as grass-fed, pastured meet a poor family, someone
living at the margins like how it people will often times say
meets too expensive for people to eat but this impossible Foods
is twice as expensive. It is just pastured meat and I
would argue that it's not sustainable the way that they
claim, it's not remotely healthy the way that they claim.
Like some animal feeding Studies have been done where they feed
animals, exclusively the stuff and the animals get sick and
ultimately wind up dying because they're not getting full
nutrition from these products. And again, if people want to
drop this in as part of their overall diet and they just like
them or they want to do it, that's great.
But I just wouldn't the claim that this is better for you is
inaccurate. Like it's just I don't know how
to mince words with that, it's inaccurate.
It is not more nutritious for people to eat these synthetic
meat options versus real meat and it's not better for the
environment. In this has been independently
verified in what's called a life cycle analysis.
But just as a quick aside, Bill Gates is now the largest owner
of single owner of Farmland in the United States.
And that farm land, that he owned his perfectly position for
producing the raw materials that go into these synthetic meat
products and what that's what he's doing about.
Rob, that's absolutely what he's doing with this land.
It had been dark story. I want to say, this is so dark
side. I feel like, I know you have a
rebellion, you leave, literally a health Rebellion.
I'm definitely on board with all this as I feel and I'm not a
look at Bill Gates and I know when you were on Joe Rogan, Lee.
And Joe Rogan has said this various sizes, I don't think
just with you about Bill Gates. He gets in a rant.
Have you seen them rant about to take advice from someone like
Bill Gates, very smart guy but not a very fit guy.
I don't think I could do any CrossFit.
This poor man looked. I don't want to say he's
overweight and obese but he's definitely not.
He has belly fat. If Bill Gates was driving his
own car, and it slid off the road and he had to scramble up
an embankment to save His own life.
Yeah. Not super likely, it's going to
work for him and he's not a yeah.
Yeah, I'd be in a pickle Kim Kardashian.
She looks great. I know she works out.
I know her trainer. She does.
Well, my sorry, a little meat, sometimes even though she's
vegan and she makes fun of herself.
I saw a new episode on Hulu and I love their show and I know
she's such an advocate in such an intelligent woman.
I feel like if she was right here and we're saying, hey, Kim,
hey, we love you. We know you're so smart.
What would we tell her? Right now, Robin just if you had
a minute in her ear, if you had a little bug in her ear or Bill
Gates, what would we tell? These incredibly intelligent
people one, I wouldn't try to tell them anything first, I
would want it to ask him. What do you feel like, is the
most compelling piece here? Is it the ethics piece like the
ethics of raising and eating animals and what are the moving
parts of that? Are you?
Most concerned about issues around climate change, like,
methane, release and animals? I would really try to And what
their primary concerns are because then we could go back
and say, okay, on this methane topic, the methane that is
released from animal. Husbandry from growing animals
is a tiny fraction of what's released in producing fossil
fuels. And there was a great study that
looked at if we removed all animal husbandry from the United
States and we only ate plants. You can't forget that raising
the These row crops raising the legumes, raising the corn also
releases methane and other greenhouse gases so it's not
like it no one's be presented as it no yeah nobody talks about
that. But it would.
Why do I feel like you mentioned it possibly in this book and in
your dock we possibly mentioned that in there.
Yeah, so the important thing. So if we removed all animals
from the equation of food production in the United States,
it would reduce our carbon footprint in total The two
percent like it's barely a dent in things and then it's
important to understand that the methane in the carbon dioxide
released by these animals, it's part of a cycle.
So when an animal eats grass, when a cow eats grass that grass
is made of carbon that it pulled out of the atmosphere in the
form of carbon dioxide to build the plant and then the cow eats
that. And as part of the breakdown of
that plant, some of it gets released as methane.
Shane because of the bacterial, fermentation of the, the
cellulose that's part of the plant and that goes back into
the atmosphere and methane is a potent greenhouse gas, but it
only has about a 10-year Half-Life in the atmosphere.
When ultraviolet, radiation hits that methane, it tends to split
into carbon dioxide and water and then it becomes part of a
cycle peat bogs produce, huge amounts of methane.
Shellfish produce, huge amounts of methane, termites produce,
huge amounts of methane and I think that people Have gotten,
would I and my co-author Danni Rogers are calling carbon tunnel
vision to get so focused just on the carbon release in the
methane release. That we forget that there's all
these other bigger issues at play there.
So if I had a chance, if I do Yeah, if I had with him, I know
a lot of people have that heart where the Earth is in trouble.
Currently. It's not like, we're making it
better or worse. It's just bad right now.
Really want? I know.
They want to help. I think that's why Bill Gates.
Does it? I think?
I think I hope I think he's super jazzed on making a lot of
money and he might, he might here's a funny thing at this is
just a quick aside, but Bill Gates, there's a great sound
bite piece where he's talking about how he started.
Investing in vaccines and vaccine research about 15 years
ago and he said that was the best investment.
He's made more money off of vaccine investment than he's
made off of software and now he's a very he's an entrepreneur
and I don't begrudge him that but it's he knows so they want
to run food as intellectual property like software and so
things like impossible burger and Beyond me, you can own the
IP of that stuff and you can run it up and publicly traded for
Matt and potentially make huge amounts of money.
What is interesting? So far as that they've been
unable to make those things, a financial success, despite huge
amounts of money, huge Investments of effort, because
at the end of the day, that stuff is still massively
processed, and requires a huge amount of inputs to produce it.
Again, these things cost twice as much per pound as like your
grass finished. Stirred meat.
So it's there's something there's something missing there,
but if I had an hour with Kim Kardashian, I would spend at
least 31 minutes asking her question, what are your thoughts
here? What do you thinking, what?
And then I would ask, are you open to exploring some
alternative ways of looking and thinking about this?
And I can support it with data and facts and whatnot.
If and then we try to share it with you would give Kim
Kardashian, one research, study that, I'm sure you've mentioned,
Door is mentioned in highlighted here.
Is there one that everyone should read?
We could put in the show notes that you could share?
What's up quintessential Sue even call.
It was a good one would be the White Oak pastures life cycle
analysis, where it Compares? I believe impossible, tell
everyone this is because I know what this is but tell them what
this name. Yes, a life cycle analysis is
were they look at every single input.
So let's talk about a pencil really quick.
There's this great white YouTubers, is to rob the White
pasta, White Oak pastures, Izzy regenerative, ranching operation
in Georgia that has been really well, studied looking at their
carbon footprint, basically everything that they do has been
looked at the tractors. They use the composting, it's a
couple of million dollars for every life cycle analysis is a
very expensive process, but they try to look at every conceivable
thing that you could think of that goes into this whole
process and they compared and contrasted And the production of
a pound of grass-fed meat, it white oak pastures versus a
pound of. I believe it was impossible
Burger, but it might have been Beyond Burger.
I forget which one it was, but they compared and contrasted
them and the white oak pastures, removes more carbon out of the
atmosphere than it releases. Where's the Beyond Burger?
Releases more carbon into the environment than it is
sequestered in that process. So when they claim that it's
sustainable, that's completely false.
That is a lie, like that is just scientifically inaccurate and
that's a good spot to at least, if people were listening this or
like, I don't know, Rob's this balding.
Middle-aged weirdo that has attack and you know what, it is,
fine, fine. All that stuff.
That is, why do I know you have a flat stomach and show even
call it a sec? Okay.
Good liposuction. There's always an excuse,
there's always a but all we would throw out there is looking
good. Yeah.
But all I would throw out there. Is that if you have questions
about this stuff if you Really are concerned about climate
change in the environment and everything which all of us
should be. Then if you have this one crack
in the story, The White Oak Pastures meat puts more carbon
underground than it releases. The Impossible Burger releases
far more carbon than it. Sequester's came over.
Yeah. At least that should open the
door to questioning everything like that.
That should be a credible enough thing to it because again if We
are trying to perform brain surgery on the planet.
To save it to save a Slayer, save our own life.
We need very yeah, we can't do it with other mitts on.
We can't do it with funny Funhouse goggles that make
everything backwards. What we're being told right now
is that the impossible Burger is healthier for us and that it's
better for the environment and I can easily show that is
factually incorrect that it's a lie or and I don't want to, I'm
going to say live. It's inaccurate and we can show
that it's inaccurate and if that is an accurate, then what else
potentially is inaccurate about the story and I just want to
encourage people. If you like me, if you like my
work, that's great. But don't believe me based off
of that go and dig into the material and assess it for
yourself. Yeah, we'll use the internet to
its Robin wall included in the show.
Absolutely, the white, it's called the white shirts from the
White Oak pastures. Yep.
And then it's and then the that was a stat.
It's a life cycle analysis. Yeah.
Alright. Well have that guys, it's zero
hunger guy.com. Let's do this.
Let's end with the solution. Things are messy, obviously, but
I think the message is what the heck do we?
And I remember you simplified this maybe in our first podcast,
we did remember you talk to me about a rib eye if there was one
food, that is a perfect food, take it away Rob.
Because I don't know if you still believe the ribeye is the
perfect food, but I buy them in bulk and Costco.
And then remember you also are the guy that taught me or share
with us on the show here. That as much as grass-fed is
nice and better for the Earth, possibly, that, because it can
be a little more money than on grass-fed.
I know to Costco, it's a couple bucks.
More bucks, but, is that critical or not?
But tell us what the ideal food is and I hate to say to the
ribeye but it's still considered one of your best foods.
We buy is a tough one to improve on because it has enough fat
that you, you could the fat protein ratio is perfect such
that you could just eat that and eat nothing else.
And we have examples of people when I do not doing this for
crazy. Yeah.
And they taste amazing. We have people that have done
basically what I call. Uncut carnivore, which is eating
a rib eye for 30 years. There's a gosh.
What's her name? There's a oh, gosh.
What's her name? Just robbers, good-looking
familiar, great shape. Tell her when you eat that kind
of food the protein. The fact I do all mad.
The acronym one the other day, we've talked about that many
times. It gives you the ability to have
an in, as we call the show zero hunger guy.
Really quelles hunger. You would agree with Rob.
Yep, yep, absolutely. So that that lower car, Some
intermittent fasting. It just is Magic for reducing
hunger for getting in that zero hunger State.
Eventually you get hungry, you haven't eaten for a day, you'll
be like Oh I'm hungry, but you're not the things that
you're not meltdown McGillicuddy, you're not, you're
not shaking, you're not about ready to go into a rage or kind
of like, okay, yeah, I'm ready to eat, and I'll be happy when I
eat, but it's very different than being hangry where you are
a threat to yourself and the people around you.
And that's the way I was the first At 27 years of my life, I
was just in a constant carb roller coaster.
I was usually coming off of a carb high and then bottoming
out, and when I would bottom out, it was terrible.
And so this is where the higher protein, higher fat,
intermittent fasting, zero hunger approach doing, zero
hunger, water to get your electrolytes, all buttoned up
and everything like it just it's the closest damn thing to Magic
that there is in the nutritional world.
There's a lot of Hokum more protein, better fat and for some
people they get by with a few more carbs and they still See
she dated like my wife has Italian, she can eat a little
bit more carbs and still be fine with that.
I'm not. And so I don't because I want to
I want zero hunger in my life. So I do still think that that
that ribeye is a fascinating like ideal model.
If you only had one food that you could take with you on a
spaceship or something that might be it right guys, that
might be the one, ya Rabbi might be the one and they're young,
they're scared of the fat and all that but tell them why it's
good for our bodies. The collagen, it's just The
perfect food and I think, people know at this stage of the life
of them following what we've been talking about that fat
makes you healthy fat, doesn't make you fat if it's not a
vegetable seed oil Rob. Yeah, it's a little seed.
Oils are inflammatory but healthy animal fats.
Putting even maybe butter put a little butter on that rib eye a
little song. Yeah, yeah.
Smiling are we smiling? Right, right, yeah.
Yeah. You know, what's funny about
that is in research circles say that they're feeding animals, a
high-fat diet, It's cornmeal with sugar mixed with
hydrogenated soybean oil and they put it into a pellet to
feed these animals. It's the most processed food you
could possibly imagine and when we look at most of the high fat
foods that folks eat, they're not it's not a ribeye, it's like
a hot pocket or taquitos or something.
It's junk carbs with junk fat, with a bunch of spices.
It's the dream. Rito roulette thing.
It's this, hyper palpable mix of foods.
And so, this is we're just saying, like, high carb high
fat. It's a little bit of a misnomer,
it's easy to turn it into religious Doctrine, and tribe
stuff off the rails. But, this, what are people
missing in this argument? Rob?
I know we're running out of time, but if there's anything
people are missing in this, I hate to call it the food Wars,
but it seems like to save the planet for Better Health.
There's a war going on. Yeah, there's that.
I don't want to say the dark side and then like, Healthy
Rebellion. But there's this war very Star,
Wars like dark and light, but what are people missing in this?
Maybe it's more Harry Potter and Voldemort or something like
that. It's pretty odd.
That be pretty powerful. But yeah, my perspective on
this, and I really think it's both an emotional perspective,
but I think I could support. This scientifically also is what
folks are missing is that this is a struggle between
industrialized, globalist food, I see and practices, like Bill
Gates, BlackRock Monsanto, there's basically six companies
in the world that produce about 95 percent of the calories that
Humanity eats, and these folks are trying to expand their reach
and use, expand their control over the food.
What I'm advocating for is a decentralized kind of
libertarian, ask approach to food.
I think people in Ecuador and Peru should have very different
food practices. Systems then people in re all
and it's not that we don't have international trade.
Like I'm not that person that thinks that, it's necessarily
bad that we import avocados from Mexico and stuff like that.
I think that stuff is fantastic, but I do think that we're in
this struggle where meat is being vilified, all of these.
This is why we called the book sacred cow that.
It's this. It's just thrown out there that
meat is the cause of poor health that it's the cause of climate
change. That it's unethical to eat it
all. All this stuff is late on it and
it may be entirely wrong. The all those claims and it's
being used to gain further control over our food system.
And we talked a fair amount about that and what a wonderful
way to wrap and package the expansion of industrial row-crop
food system by getting one of the most beautiful influential
women in the world. Kim Kardashian to get in and
become the, the chief taste-off. Serve for this product and can
give her stamp of approval on this.
Like it's a genius move, but maybe it's not the good move for
the planet. Maybe it's not the good move for
everybody, writ large in this story.
And so, I think that is a We get.
So embroiled in carb, high carb, versus low carb, vegan versus
carnivore, and all this stuff, and to some degree.
It's a little bit of a distraction because the real
issue here, isn't how people choose to feed themselves.
It's them having the ability to choose what to feed themselves.
And it's moving in a direction, especially within again.
I don't want to drive this thing off of a cliff, but some of
these social credit score things that were thrown around covid
and whatnot. It's Suggested that as part of
your Social credit score, your bank account would be tied to
this stuff and you go to the store to buy your rib eye.
And it says I'm sorry, comrade but your allotment of meat is
met for the month. You need to have some impossible
Burger instead and you won't be allowed to buy this thing.
That's where they're going with this stuff and I have some real
qualms about that. That is it isn't conspiracy
theory like there's there's World economic Forum video where
folks Stat. This is what we need to do to be
able to get on top of climate change.
And I think that is not the way that you tackle climate change
at all. And it certainly doesn't strike
me as a way that would honor the individual leaves of each
culture and each person around the world.
This is homogenizing the whole world to exist in one particular
way. And if people want to find out
more about the sacred cow, it's an incredible book.
It tell them about the film briefly and we're too visible
work. Can people watch this tonight?
Which I'm going to suggest you get the book, The watch them
film. It's a documentary.
Tell them about it briefly and where they can get it.
Rob sacred cow dot infos where they can get the general
informational. I think that there are some
download options from there but I think does on Prime like most
places that Tribute documentary. You can get it through there.
Yeah, perfect. Know.
And it seemed incredible film and I think I'm so thrilled.
They did that. I know so many people support
this and I think our health both for the Earth and ourselves is
we're all sick right now. We're all so sick and I feel
like we all, I hope have that intention and there's a healthy
way to do it. And I feel like you've given us
a blueprint, if you will to do that.
And I'm just, I feel so grateful to what you do Rob because your
work is. So Heartfelt and you really are
articulate at sharing. I think point of view that needs
to be shared as often as possible.
I wish we could talk about this every week.
I feel like it has to be dead every day.
And I'm so grateful that we have this conversation because I feel
like people we need to hear this.
So I know this but hearing it even myself right now.
I feel like I've been eating a little less Ribeyes and I'm
like, I'm going back to my rib eyes.
I loved my rib eyes. So people I write really good
friend of mine that I haven't seen from since.
College and we've been spending a lot of time she's going
through a breakup and I've gone through my divorce and we've
been hanging out a lot. She thinks I'm nuts.
She's like, why are you eating so much healthy?
This ER this is Rabbi this at this high fat food.
You think it's healthy. I didn't give her the book yet.
I'm going to get her the book. Ha ha.
Ha, I think, ever the movies. First, that's an easy one, watch
the film on Amazon Prime wherever they're out there, tell
people about your website, where people get a hold of you rap in
your social and thank you so much.
Rob, Portman incredible conversation.
Huge honor, I always loved hanging out.
Out with you. Thank you all stop calm is a
main Clearinghouse. We have our podcast, healthy
Rebellion radio that I do each week with my wife and she is
definitely my better to third the folks usually enjoy
listening to her too. I love it.
I thank you so much Rob and just take good care.
I can't wait to see you soon. Hopefully, in person soon.
I have a feeling. We're going to do it Rob.
I'm gonna rope you to come up and spend some time in Montana,
maybe you'll stay. So yeah, I'm excited.
Now, you have a good shows that shirt.
You're not wearing it by accident.
Oh yeah. Yeah, the so these are Got some
good friends of mine who run a grass-fed meat operation here
and they bought Texas Longhorns. Moved them up into Montana.
And so now, they're Montana Longhorns, but it's a
fascinating operation. They put these animals into an
area that had been massively overgrazed and was really
damaged, and they've used regenerative grazing practices,
and the three-year transition in this area is just jaw-dropping.
Like it's amazing what? But how healing this has been to
this area that had been poorly managed because you can over
grazing area, you can also under grace in area, but properly
applied regenerative practices could create a food system that
could still be here. 10,000 years from now.
Like it is long-term sustainable.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you rob your Rockstar,
keep it up, guys. Get the movie get the book,
sacred cow everywhere. Alright guys, thanks Rob.
Thanks. Take care.
All right. Today's episode is complete
guys. Thank you so much for listening
and I want to ask you to. Please subscribe to the show on
Apple podcast and please leave a review on Apple as well.
Give it five stars. If you think the show has helped
you in some way to transform your thinking, I hope it has and
more importantly, share your comments, your review of what
today's episode did for your thinking and what you got out of
it because I think that is how we spread this.
And for me this is a revolution this is not Not a podcast.
This is a way of life and I hope to transform over a million
lives in the next couple of years and I need your help.
So please become part of the zero.
Hunger Revolution by leaving that review, on Apple, podcasts
and subscribing today. Thanks so much, have a great one
piece and purpose and I'll see you on the next episode.