Now that we're filming, I've made a specific effort to pull
out some of my retro footballs. Guatemala mate, put some respect
on Carlos Ruiz name. You just cannot write scripts
like this. Welcome ladies and gentlemen to
The Final Countdown, a podcast looking back at great finals
within the game of football. I'm Lewis here, my Co host.
Adam, hello there. We have taken a giant leap
forward, not just for mankind. Giant leap for this podcast.
That's right, we are now video content creators.
I think that's the official one. I'm.
Distinctly aware, you know when you listen to like a podcast or
or radio and then you see a clip of what the person looks.
Like the voices don't match the face.
Yeah, and there's an overwhelming sense of
disappointment. I think that that's what this
podcast has traded in for the 100 plus episodes you've got.
Out. Just stand on brand.
Yeah, exactly. We've also accidentally realized
we've set it up like between two ferns.
Yes, for those look at that reference.
Yes, we had these. We didn't go and buy them.
No, exactly it. Wasn't an intentional lamarche.
Hi, welcome to another edition of Between Two Ferns.
Welcome if you are the first time joining us, we like to look
back at Retro Cup finals. We've done World Cups, FA Cups,
we have yet to do League Cups because it's a competition
nobody cares about which I'll replay this clip when we
eventually. I'm tuned in for that one.
We're eventually forced to cover the League Cup.
Football history in nostalgia. There's been a little tag line
absolutely in our rebrand. Yeah, we're basically those two
blokes that are clinging on to the past desperately and don't
want to face up to modern football.
That's the legacy way of looking at mate.
I think we're also looking at how narratives created the game
that we know today. Oh.
Look at this. So polished, so professional.
You've changed since we started video in these ChatGPT 7.
So something we don't do enough of which is push our social.
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final countdown pod on most socials except for X because X
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take the three minutes it'll take you to leave a review.
That would mean the world to us. Especially shout out to the guy
that commented recently saying that the cross stream Carlos
Alberto in Brazil and flight the Conchords kind of made him
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demographic, so if that's you, please.
End up in some strange places. We do, but it's amusing.
Talking about amusing things, Aston Villa getting battered I
think is on the on the cards today in the FA Cup final it.
Is is that my segue to the 2015 FA Cup final?
Nicely played. We are in the midst of the
Wenger Out years. Yeah, strange.
And he is. We'll talk a little bit about
Wenger today. He is in an era of kind of
dining out on past glories, but just doing enough, as we'll find
out. Well, this is the thing.
So previous episode we talked about Arsenal's first trophy in
nine years. Yep, they've done back-to-back
FA Cups. Is that really a time to
criticize Wenger? I'm just saying.
Well, I think that's why. So spoiler for those that don't
remember, he didn't leave until 2018, and he left on his own
terms in the end. Yeah.
Within reason, yeah. I mean, there wasn't like, you
know, booze and get out of our club, but there was an element
of people were kind of like, yeah, it's it's the end you.
Don't want to be hanging around at the party, do you?
Like everything was? Yeah, that's what I mean.
Everyone's cleaning up around you and you're kind of like
we've had a great time. It's been a great night.
But come on. Arson.
Like the doors that way. Just the cab.
Oh, I've got your coat here. Arson.
You're extremely long coat. He's relax your party.
What are you smuggling in here? Do you have with the zip, Nish?
That's all we do, Nish. No idea what that's about.
You probably need to be around just.
Google Arsene Wenger Rain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So anyway, we have, as you mentioned, Aston Villa in their
first cup final since 2000 and then Arsenal in.
They were defending champions of the FA Cup, as you would have
known if you listened in to last week.
So I kind of thought that was interesting, defending the FA
Cup. Is that particularly done?
Not been done very often at all? Yeah, I was just thinking about
that. I can't think of many back to
backs. No.
So if you go pre war you had like Preston and Huddersfield
winning like nine in a row and all that kind of stuff.
Very much of the Real Madrid of the FA Cup.
Yeah, it was a little bit like this is a bit of a mismatch in
terms of quality and whatnot, but if you go post the Second
World War, it gets a bit more interesting.
So these are the list of the clubs that have done
back-to-back FA Cup finals since 1945.
OK, Newcastle have done it, have they?
Spurs have done it twice. I would have guessed Spurs.
Including the double, first double winning season.
Arsenal have done it, yes, we'll come back to that.
Chelsea have done it. Have they?
I wouldn't have guessed Chelsea. And then Arsenal have done it
again as a result of today because we're not going to
pretend Arsenal kill this final and Villa a little bit despite
the fact they're not really a Hull or a what was the team that
we did that? Oh, Wigan, Wigan who managed to
pull back to win? Yeah, yeah, possible.
They they were a little bit of a not really the races.
And, and what I think, I think this is the worst of both worlds
is in you don't get a true underdog story and you don't get
a clash of the Titans. You're kind of stuck with the
team that Arsenal are just likely to be.
I, I think I'm certain, I don't know, I'm certain.
Arsenal would have probably beaten Villa twice in the.
League. They did.
Yeah. Yeah, very.
So it's just one that I'm, it's just one of those things where
you're like, you're a middling Premier League top, so you don't
get this huge underdog. Story, I wonder sometimes that
plays against them because they weren't like no chance like a
Wigan, yeah. And so there wasn't that kind of
like, you know, we can do all that stuff with a psychologist
and stuff like that, whereas Villa might have gone.
We're not that far behind them so.
Maybe we have a good day and they have a bad day.
And I don't know if it plays as well.
I think an underdog, in a weird way, is actually more likely to
win this kind of game than. Because the players themselves
can tap into a narrative, You can create an app, you can do
the whole game versus Goliath thing.
Whereas when you're in the same division and you're kind of, you
know, mid or floating with Europe, it's kind of like, yeah,
like you say, we might be able to do it and.
Then just yeah, it's not, it's not there.
And and as we'll find out, but there is other stories around
this cup final. Arsenal, as we mentioned, were
managed by Arsene Wenger, clinging on, kind of doing
enough. 4th Champions League out in the quarters, return and
rinse and repeat. Villa Do you remember, without
glancing at my notes, who was the manager of Aston Villa?
Of course I remember this. It's Tim Sherwood.
Very good. That's why I don't, I said at
the start talking about things that make you smile or whatever
my Segway was. It's not because I have any
gripe against Villa at all, actually quite like Villa as a
club. I just disliked Tim Sherwood so
immensely I think. He's a bit Marmite any.
He's a Nov. He's I find him quite funny.
No, he's not self aware enough to be funny.
He might be funny to laugh at, but he isn't in on the joke.
He doesn't realise that he's he's just so mere.
I just can't stand him. So you might kind of say, well,
you know, had a Villa get there. What kind of team were they?
So their their front players were, I don't know if they're
formidable or phenomenal, but they're recognizable.
Let's go with that. You might recognize their name.
What a compliment. Yeah, AG bong Lahore.
Yes, of course. Who always seemed to come across
like he thought he was better than he was.
And still does very much. Yes, he does.
Yeah, he always picking a fight with Gary Neville.
And then we have Jack Greelish. A young Jack.
I would have thought this was before his time.
No, I think this was kind of as he was breaking through him.
He must have been 1819 I reckon at this time.
And then Benteke. Christian Christian Christian on
his. Day, he could do it.
He's got a good scoring record, him and Lukaku, the two kind of
Belgian of. Course you know.
That barreling strikers did did well in the Premier League, but
then Benteke was signed by Liverpool and we've ruined them.
They're kind of one of the was he?
I don't remember that. Yeah, Benteke went to the
absolutely under my. Brendan Rodgers basically always
a lot. Did he?
No, he did not. He always had a habit of scoring
against Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers disregarded the advice
of the kind of data team at the time that were just being
brought in for Liverpool and he just said no, Benteke is our
man, we need to go and get him. We got him and it did not work.
Out like. Paul, Brendan.
Yeah, things. On a side note, have you read
the statement? Oh my God.
What is that about? I tell you what, there should be
a David Brent style life on the road documentary on.
He's meant to be like. Yeah, he is the whole Becoming
Liverpool documentary they did where you walked in, there was a
portrait of him in his own house.
That kind of didn't didn't really help things.
And there is a really lovely story behind that photo picture.
I choose not to to remember that.
I just like the idea of Brendy walking into his house just
being like another win today, just saluting himself and then
carrying on. But anyway, we digress.
Oh yeah, Brendan Rodgers. He's a travelling salesman
there. He is, yeah.
Who does your tampons? OK, that's done.
That's DRY again. You can use that again.
Fine, seems fine all right. Can I take doesn't so to start
with? Sold to that man.
OK, Yeah, sure. Start off like that and then
let's see. Can I ask you something?
Who does your tampons? So anyway, back from one manager
you don't like to another manager you don't like.
Well, do you not like Brendan Rodgers?
Would you go that far? No.
No, I wouldn't. I think he's, I think he is
quite fun to mock and there's a lot out there, like the whole,
the whole Richard Gervais, David Brent style of him.
But no, I don't dislike him. He, he actually was the first
manager in my lifetime to really bring us kind of so close to the
Premier League. Like we'd had a few shots under
Rafa, but nothing really like this under Rodgers.
We were so, so close. To we had a few shots under
Rafa. I mean that was.
That was our problem. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. We'd end up with the season with
four shots on target. I thought, come on Rafa, you got
to be better, be more positive. Brilliant.
So we go from Britain Rogers back to Tim Sherwood, Aston
Villa, Arsenal were playing in their record.
This is important, their record, 19th FA Cup final, that is
impressive, surpassing Man United who I think you mentioned
last week with the record holders.
So Arsenal got there again and hold the record.
Arsenal and Villa played as you mentioned earlier, played twice
during the league season. Both games should result in in
Arsenal victories 2 nil and two one yeah.
I mean, we're talking about a solid mid table team against a
solid Champions League. Yeah, team, yeah.
Ultimately, FA Cup holders Arsenal entered the competition
in a third round, obviously, where they were drawn at home
against fellow top flight team Hull City.
Oh, Hull. A repeat.
Trying to, yeah, get their revenge on.
So that's the second time in a row, because if you remember
when we did the Man City, Wigan, Wigan, they faced each other
again. Wigan beat them in the in the
following season. In this one.
Arsenal just dispatched them obviously two nil in a repeat of
the previous years final 2014 final if you haven't listened to
that one. So Arsenal saw off Hull again
and ended their FA Cup dreams at much earlier stage.
They then went on to beat Brighton and Borough
Middlesbrough. Then they faced Man United away.
Tasty. In a live Monday night game.
Monday, Yeah, in the FA Cup. That is random.
Yeah, I bet. Oh, I don't like that.
I don't like that. There's something fundamentally
wrong about that. For me, so I mean well then you
would have been in good company with Arsenal fans moaning.
Oh, short Cara. About the fact that you'd have
to be travelling back late, which I didn't understand
because if you go to a midweek game.
You're always. You'd always be travelling back,
but maybe it's the Monday morning, Monday evening thing I.
Don't like Mondays? Maybe that's just what they were
singing. Bob Geldof on the train.
Massive Arsenal fan Bob killed off Who knew?
So then Arsenal fans complained about travelling back late, they
found their way past the deteriorating and I mean
historically deteriorating United team.
Rooney was still there, he was. De Maria was there and actually
got sent off in this game. Interesting.
United took the lead but Arsenal came back to win 21 and Arsenal
got through to the semi final to see as you'd expect to see a
giant in the Wembley semi final reading.
Oh, mind you. Right.
Well, they're a Premier League team.
Then I was just trying to think. I think as earlier.
I think earlier. Exactly.
So part of me was going Steve Sidwell and what was his name?
Massive curly hair. I can't remember as Stephen
Hunt. Yeah.
Like those kind of names. Did you see that was a bit
earlier? Steve Sidwell did the FA Cup
draw on Monday night, the second round draw which I watched
because our our local team Western is in it for the second
time in their history and they introduced it was Jolene Lescott
and Steve Sidwell. Jolene Lescott's obviously won
the cup final. So the presenter was like Jolene
Lescott, 4 cup winner and then Steve Sidwell and this is the
closest he's ever got to the drone.
And I was like what a bit of that that is.
But I hope she knew him because it otherwise it was pretty
harsh. Anyway.
So yeah, Reading, we're at Wembley for the semi final.
Arsenal, interestingly, despite them playing against the lower
level team, needed extra time to see them.
That's right. Yeah, Won all, took them to
extra time and then Arsenal, Sanchez got the winner To see
Arsenal get to Wembley for the second consecutive year.
Aston Villa, this is incredible. I don't.
I couldn't find out how often this had happened because it's
just such a niche bit of info. Villa had the rare opportunity
to play all of their cup ties at home.
Wow, that. Is every single one.
That's incredible. Obviously not the semi.
The semi was at Wembley but neutral but.
Yeah, like statistically what a little quirk that is I.
Can't imagine that's where the the people that got to the final
have played. Everyone at home I I did try to
find out, but that's got to be rare.
Yeah, you would have thought so. So they beat, I mean it's not
much of A a challenge if I'm honest.
They beat Blackpool, Bournemouth, Leicester and that
was Bournemouth pre Premier League, Leicester who actually
were around about to win Premier League weren't they?
So they were decent. Well, no, that's the thing.
They weren't decent. Oh, true, Yeah.
No, they just came up. This is what they need.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we we think about that
classic Leicester team and the couple of years that they had
that was brilliant. But yeah, they kind of.
And that was the following year, Yes, that's right, 1516, yeah.
And then W Brom in the quarterfinals to face Liverpool
in the semis. Liverpool with Coutinho and Co.
Yeah. Did Walcott score in this game?
I don't know if you've got that information, I've got vague.
No you didn't. No.
Coutinho opened the scoring for Liverpool and they looked to
have sent Liverpool to the final before Benteke and Delph
captain. Delph, Fabian Delph, he was.
He was an interesting player that's flowed with the England
team for a bit. Obviously, he got signed by Man
City. He was strange for that
documentary there, wasn't he? Oh yeah, he was the man.
City documentary. He's like, he's probably the
lower level of the quality of players in that and he was like
ranting at everybody. As if he was.
Bloody messy. He's like, pipe down, Fabian.
Your name's Fabian. No one's going to take you
seriously. You're lucky to be here mate, we
all know it. I love it if someone has said
that on the dog anyway. So Fabian Delph and Christian
Mensacky turned the game around late to send Villas to the to
Wembley for the first time since 2000, which asked to build an
arsenal in the FA Cup final. This is a bizarre little piece
of information. Yeah, trivia.
That's good. I've entirely this competition
time. OK, I don't know.
Why should the 2015 FA Cup final just had some competitions
attached? OK.
Children's television program. This is classic.
Oh, this type of competition. Not competition on the pitch or
in the competition. No, just.
Random stuff happening around the FA Cup, right?
OK. The Blue Peter ran a competition
to design the mascot for the final.
How've they done that? Blue Peter haven't been relevant
for about 20. Years, I think it might have
been because this, we'll get to this in a bit, but this was on
the BBC for the first time in Oh, OK, right, which we'll talk
about in a minute. But the winning entry?
Billy spelt like Billy Piper. OK, now you're talking my
language. Yeah, it didn't matter till
then. Do you want to?
What do you spell like that? Because we want to.
So it wasn't actually to do with Billy Piper.
Actually it was to do with the horse that controlled the crowds
in the 1923 I think. It's called the White Horse
final. Yeah, and it did.
The circles and the crowd had come onto the pitch and it got
them back. OK, I've always.
Had a question about that, if I'm honest.
One horse, right? Yeah, I get it when it's doing
like little trots around the centre circle, but the story is
that it was got bigger and bigger circles.
That mate, everyone's a sheep at the end of the day once you
start getting herded by. But like if he's over at like
right wing and I'm like hundreds of people at left back, we're
not like why aren't we moving horse 100 metres over there?
Like it doesn't make any sense. Look, that horse had a lot going
for it, right Billy? Billy the Stallion.
Yes. So Billy was the inspiration for
the winning, and I thought about showing the picture and mocking
it, but Oh well, it was a kid that did it, yeah.
So I thought we'd leave it be. But we're not going to punch
down at the 11 year old that decided to submit it to Blue.
Peter, he's 25, did. He get did he get a Blue Peter
badge? I hope did you?
Ever know anyone that had a Blue Peter badge?
I didn't actually. I knew what I went to primary
school with somebody that got a Blue Peter.
Really. But what do they do for it?
Well, this is what I don't, I don't quite remember, but it was
a Groupon. It was like 100 people got given
a Blue Peter badge for doing this thing.
So I'm like, you haven't earned it really.
No, you got to be solitary and it, you know, appear on the show
ideally. Yeah.
I mean, that's the top level.
Didn't they get, like a gold boat?
That was a gold one, yeah. Was that because if you made it
onto the show, you got broken? Yeah, I believe.
Peter, Connie, Huck. Now you're taking me back.
We've lost it. I'm trying to think of the ones.
It wasn't really. All I think of was Richard Bacon
in his cocaine shame. Oh yeah, Richard Bacon.
He got chucked off anyway, so this is class former England
international Phil Neville. Oh, what's Phil got to say?
One of the judges in the competition.
This gets more and more bizarre. So yeah, I I guess.
But of course, the most vanilla person.
All right, we need next footballer, someone that's
willing to go to Blue Peter and judge them.
We need children's artwork, yeah.
Phil Neville. Known for his artwork?
I don't know all. Right, guys.
So just thanks very much for inviting me on this is this is
great. Yeah, Well done.
You've got some lovely shading there.
Well, see if you can do the quote there, mate.
There we go, Phil Neville. I think the design is great, the
story behind it is even better and I think it's something
everyone's gonna be really impressed with.
It's not a very good Mancunian. Accent Phil Phil Neville I.
Was just gonna say it's the whispering with Phil Neville.
He's a very quiet man. He is, although I'm turning a
little bit. Brian Clough.
It's not, it's not, it's an A young man.
It's not very Mancunian at all. Actually he's lost it.
So yeah, for reasons passing understanding Phil Levell was
the judge. Maybe he has an art background I
don't. Know, maybe he submitted it
under under a pseudonym. Oh, this one's fantastic.
It's from Mr. P Neville. No, no, it's obvious.
Phil M. Philly M.
Fabian's life is that my long lost brother.
So that was the the mascot of the 2015 FA Cup final was Billy
the Horse Strange. Then another competition because
you know, I think the BBC were like any BBC programme want to
run a competition to be the FA Cup final.
Sure. And it does actually, when we
talk about the television coverage in a minute, it does
get a little bit like that where they just sent out a memo to
anybody that works for the BBC to take part in the FA Cup final
that day. So Songs of Praise, the
Religious Religious television programme, ran a competition to
be a part of a 64 person choir to sing Abide with me, Sing
abide with me. When you first mentioned songs
praise, you could give me 100 guesses.
I would not have guessed that they would have been.
You know what? We need to make church relevant
again. Let's get in the FA Cup.
Yeah, it's fantastic. Okay, that makes more sense.
So the 64 fans of each of the clubs who reached the third
round. Cool.
So that is kind of cool. Yeah.
Of the competition, including a Liverpool fan who survived the
Hillsborough disaster and a 99 year old Newcastle United fan.
Wow. Which is pretty cool.
Yeah, that is cool. I mean, they wouldn't like him
up, but it might be her actually.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, who knows, she might have
been awesome. Or or 99.
Do you know what I mean? You can be awful and everyone
will still say you're awesome. Yeah, yeah.
No one's gonna like. Isn't it amazing?
Yeah, they've got breath in there.
Can. Stand they can.
They might not have. Been they carried him out.
This was all kind of, it's become clear when talking about
the competition this was all to do with the BBC getting the
rights back. So they did.
I forgot this happened, which shows, if I'm honest, how much I
paid attention to the FA Cup final At this time the BBC
devoted all day coverage. Ah, there we go, back to the
glory years. Back to the 80s.
So if you are too young to remember this, and you are Lou,
but somehow you remember anyway, Yeah, Lewis was alive in the
80s, yet he wasn't. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I was born halfway through 89, so that's six months
of being in the 80s, really. You remember things that
happened in the early 80s Yeah, I do remember Brian Robson's
record scoring goal and not 82 World Cup you like.
Yeah, I remember it well. I.
Remember where I was? You have questions to answer,
you really do. So anyway, the BBC devoted a
whole day of programming to the final.
So that happened in the 80s when the cup final was massive and it
was hilarious in a way, but looking it was actually charming
as a kid because you'd get up, you'd have your breakfast and
from like 9:00 in the morning. Amazing.
It was the BBC cheat us a little bit in 2015, which I'll come
back to, but in those days it was like the build up.
They follow the the players, they follow the players coming
out of the hotel, they follow the players getting on the bus.
They'd have a camera on the bus. On the bus, yeah, I don't
remember that. That's Oh yeah, that was
Breakthrough. That was, that was access.
They had, you know, arriving at Wembley, they had them getting,
you know, off everything. The build up was true build up
and it was the BBC. So no adverts.
Yes, it was. Relentless build up.
So if you didn't care about Coventry versus Tottenham in 87
at 9:00 on the Saturday, you bloody did by 3:00.
Yeah, sure, I'm emotionally invested now.
That kit man's been through hell and back to get these boots
shine. Yeah, they tell the story of
everybody. The Gravesman.
The Kick. Of the tea lady.
Yeah, you know. Oh, well, good.
Deirdre. Lovely though.
She's been there 60 years. Who was it United had someone
that worked there for? She's famous, but not famous
enough that I remember. Her.
She's not the tea lady though. Oh.
Is she not? Is she maybe we're not thinking
of the same person. I feel like it's one of those
things that folks. She died recently, didn't she?
There was a funeral and all the all the players and stuff from
that era came. Back they did, yeah.
Some time later. Yeah, so you were right.
It's not the tea lady. Cath Phipps passed away in
December 2024, the age of 85. So she'd worked there for 55
years as a receptionist or switchboard operator.
So amazing so. Yeah, I mean she would have got
like a three hour documentary. Can you imagine the story she
know? Yeah.
I wish she'd done a memoir. I can think of the story she
knows. Incredible.
That'll be amazing. Actually, I think there's a
You've just reminded me. I'm pretty sure there's a story
about it, might have been, Ferguson asked her.
Or someone asked her, when are you going to write your book?
And she just said, Oh no, that's not what we do.
That's right. Yeah.
Oh, incredible. That's cool.
They don't make it what they. Used to do.
They don't. No, no, they well played.
They'd be cashing in nowadays. OK, fine.
So the BBC developed a whole day of programming, but it revived
the tradition in the sense that was FA Cup themed themed
programming from 9:00 in the morning.
What does that mean? But let me tell you, special
editions of Top of the Pops 2 Saturday Kitchen.
What? Pointless.
Oh. No, the whole coverage is
pointless. If you're not going to do it
properly, don't do it. All I mean, what does that look
like? Saturday kitchen?
FA Cup top. Of the pops, I can understand
you. You get Keegan back in, wouldn't
you? Come on.
Son guarantee all that was is they just played every FA Cup.
Song every cup, yeah. That'll be what that was.
So that's easy programming. But Saturday Kitchen, What's
that? What are they cooking?
Yeah. It's not like they're just going
to go right. We need to replicate a burger
van. Let's just make sure we got 99.
Pence Yeah, this is like the pies, Yeah.
Selling at Wembley later today. So I you kind of cheated us
there. BBC If you're going to do it,
commit to it, which is why I think it probably doesn't
happen. I mean, they've got it now.
Oh, have they got it now? Yeah, they've still got it, but
yeah, they don't do the all day thing.
No, it's a. It's a bit.
You can't pretend to do something and then.
Also, you're flogging a dead horse.
Like as much as we want and we joke about it, but we want the
FA Cup to be what it used to be. It just isn't.
It never will be, it never will be.
Now, with the Champions League in the Premier League what it
is, the FA Cup will always be a distant third place to domestic
fans. So last quote on or not quote,
the last fact on that whole thing before we get to the match
is that those special editions of the BBC programme combined
with the 50 greatest FA Cup moments, which frankly sounds
bloody or awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But ultimately just another the rerun of I don't know how much
new television was actually broadcast.
No, no. What was incredible about that
is it was a 515 kickoff. Wow.
So they started 30. It's not even 3:00.
That's incredible mate. And then 515.
The game finished around like 738 and then the highlights were
on at 10. I mean, again, if you haven't
tuned in for the actual FA Cup final, you're not going to be
bothered about the highlights an hour and a half.
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. It's not going to work.
It's not going to work at all. Anyway, after all of that, we'll
get to the match itself. Is Gascoyne going to have a
crack? Yes.
You know, brilliant. That is Schoolboy's hamster.
OK, so despite the final result, which let's just Fast forward,
Arsenal win this four nil. Yeah, so you kind of look at it
and going to go, wow, they smashed it.
What a non game. Actually, the first half wasn't
like that at all. Is that right?
Yeah. And it's a bit strange because
Villa were actually very much in the game for the 1st 39 minutes
and 52 seconds. Right, OK.
Benteke and Grealish were dangerous.
They threatened, they both had chances.
Mertesacker blocking Benteke's shot for Arsenal.
Carzola, your favorite? Yes, he was dominant, creating
chances for Theo Walcott, which we'll come back to, and Aaron
Ramsey, was he? Oh God, celebrity stuck in the
cover. I didn't actually check that
anyone died after this game. Well, they must have died.
They. Definitely did.
Of course they did. So yeah, both teams were kind
of, it was a pretty open first half and if you, you know, watch
back on it or read back on it, it, it was quite exciting as a
game which you know, the end result you kind of think, well,
it wouldn't have been like that at all, but it actually was.
Villa were in it midway through the first half.
Ozil cross to Walcott who 6 yards out was denied by
brilliant sliding tackle from Richardson.
Aaron Ramsey had the Arsenal fans on their feet.
This always reminds me of Raheem Sterling when I tell this kind
of stuff. I know what you wanna say.
Fake goal. Yeah, the goal against.
Well, the non goal against. Italy.
Italy, that was. Still to this day, I can picture
it going in the now. I don't know, You know, like the
Mandela. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I do not know how it wasn't a goal.
It was unbelievable. So the Arsenal fans who at the
other end had them, they're on their feet.
Ramsey getting on the end of Ozil cross but his shot actually
hit the side netting. It is a bit deceiving actually.
So if you were the wrong side of it, other than the players
reaction, you'd be like like you can definitely see it.
I wonder how long it takes. What for the news to come?
If you go up celebrating because you, you go a bit mad.
We celebrate for about 25 seconds that sterling goal, I
swear. And then it was like, hold on.
Why is it What? That's a goal kick.
What's? What's happened?
Yeah.
What did I miss? When I turned around for only
the fourth time since the turn of the century, I looked this
up. The final looked destined to be
goalless at half time. Only the 4th time.
Yeah, which I mean it's only 1615 years.
So at 15 finals, 4 times it got, which I think the FA Cup finals
got a bit of a reputation since the turn of the century for
being a bit dour. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, there was always, generally always a goal.
Yeah, that, that's what I mean. It's interesting.
So I wouldn't have with the eye test, I wouldn't have agreed
with that stat in terms of we talk about FA Cups in
particular, but most cup finals teams tend to be cagey.
They tend not want to lose it rather than go and win it.
Yeah, true. So it is surprising that the
most of the time or 2/3 of the time there is a goal in the
first half. Yeah.
I'm surprised by that stat. I mean, there nearly wasn't, but
the final destined to be goalless until.
Let me see if you get this reference Until Sven's favorite
son to ignore change things. Theo Walcott, come with me.
Come on, come on, come on. Experiencing.
Come on the trip, you'll love it.
Why are you bringing your football boots?
Come on. It's his work experience.
You got your Bosch bag last night.
That's good. Yeah.
Don't don't do something. Boots.
Didn't they do them in kids sizes?
You got notepad, maybe some colouring, some colouring books.
You got a letter from your parents letting you on.
We referenced of course. Is it 2006?
I think yes. Sven brought a 17 year old Theo
Walcott on the the World Cup. Still at Southampton at the
time, right? Yeah.
He was like in division club. I don't even think they were
Premier League. No, they were championship,
weren't they? Yeah.
But he was exciting.
But it was someone else. Is it?
Who kicks off? Oh, Defoe.
Defoe. Jermaine Defoe still to this day
is not happy about the fact that he got left.
Out and you completely understand it.
Did you look back and you go, God, I was denied by a guy who
didn't get a minute on the pitch?
Yeah. And Defoe was a very consistent
Premier, Premier League goal scorer.
Like if it was a good striker and to miss out on, yeah, that
is bad. That's really bad.
I'm not sure if I agree with Jermaine that England won the
World Cup if he was there, but. I'm not entirely sure he's made
that made that claim, but we'll go with.
This if you're watching. Jermaine, he said it, not me.
So with 5 minutes and a half remaining, Arsenal took the lead
through Theo Walcott, the Monreal cut.
Is it Monreal? Yeah, yeah.
Monreal across from the left hand side of the pitch found
Alexis Sanchez who headed it back across goal and Walcott
running in a great, great volley, actually a net Bulger.
Oh yes, we love a bulge. We love a bulge in this podcast.
OK. Keep it family friendly.
That'll be on TikTok. Got a podcast?
Oh my Lord. The filth at the final countdown
we're talking about. Bulges everywhere.
Just to clarify, when a ball bounces before you hit, it's a
half volley. It's not a volley is.
It no, no, you can't hit it on a volley Is Paul skulls against
Aston Villa? On the fall, yeah, yeah,
absolutely. So the half volley, the Guardian
write ups and the BBC write ups of this.
They're wrong. They're simply wrong.
You've missed and I expect half. I expect more from my
journalistic integrity here. So Walcott fires the ball in 40
minutes, gone. So it kind of changed the game a
little bit, which we'll come back to, but I thought it might
be interesting to segue slightly Walcott's career.
Let's just 30 seconds reflection.
Was it a success or did he promise much and not deliver?
Let me just give you stats. What you think?
Arsenal 397 appearances, 108 goals.
Also obviously played for Everton and Southampton.
He was on loan then went back to Southampton permanently.
He played 47 times for England, scoring eight goals.
I think he is undoubtedly a successful footballer.
That's true. I think Sven going back to that
point, almost cursed him by making us kind of believe is
this guy going to be the next big thing, the next Wayne
Rooney, what have you, because of of basically putting him on a
pedestal so young. Any other player that has that
like a one in four goals ratio for Arsenal, not bad, especially
because the whole thing about Walcott the time and was he
wanted to play up front like Henry and was often on the right
hand side. Yeah, yeah, as a winger.
So one in 4 is pretty good. One in five for England in a not
great England set up. I actually pretty poor, period.
Yeah, I think Walcott has had a fine career.
Is he one of the greats? Absolutely not.
But I don't. I think if he hadn't been
poisoned or given such a heavy kind of expectation from his
teenage years, I think most of us go, yeah, he was a good
player, like Jermaine Defoe. I think most of us would go,
yeah, he's had a really good career.
He was a good player. Walcott, do you remember?
He was really quick. I think good he's he was a
solid, good top level player I think.
He's a good score player for Arsenal.
What a great compliment. That isn't a Dick, that is just.
Yeah, and they and they won. He won trophies.
It's not like he went without his success.
It was minor success, but you know, they won the league or
Champions League. But it also made me think and I
think of people like Michael Owen, in particular Darius for
Sale. People on the hall.
People where their main attribute is speed.
Sometimes you kind. Of a little bit like well calm
down a bit he's quick, but he won't always be quick yeah yeah
you obviously got someone like Messi who was quick but he was
also unbelievably skilful yeah yeah whereas when the players
main thing is speed I'm I think I'm a little bit more yeah but
it won't it won't stay I agree but also.
Watching a player who's really quick, there's just something
calm about where you are, just like you're instantly riveted,
You're instantly on the edge. You see, like, this player is
amazing. It's really easy to come and get
carried away with a player that is like rapid.
So I think it is one of these things as well.
You have to like you say, you have to kind of calm yourself
down and go, yeah, they might be the next trying to give a really
quick good player the next Enri or whatever.
But they also might be a Dama Traore who's really quick but
doesn't have any. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the long? Standing joke we have about
Darius Purcell is it came from a reality of watching him.
Neither of us really know a lot about him from club and we watch
him for England ago and we would genuinely say flip me.
He's fast, he's quick. Have you seen this guy?
He's rapping, but it's really all we ever said about.
Him. Yeah, exactly, Less said.
About his penalty taking the bat, Yeah, sorry, Darius.
Anyway, back to the final. So the goal changed the face of
the game. Villa went into halftime knowing
they now have to chase, which they're 5 minutes away from.
Not feeling that way. Arsenal went in knowing they had
the breakthrough in a tight game and the next score.
I miss the most obvious thing in the world punditry to say next
goal is important, next goal is. Important Next.
Hour is important, that's more cricket things but so the next
score would be crucial and ultimately we didn't have to
wait long. 5 minutes after the restart, one of the great
Wembley goals, and if you remember this, Alexis Sanchez
picking the ball up outside the box, 27 meters out apparently,
and he absolutely smashed it into the middle of the goal.
But the roof of the net. Roof.
Yeah. Is it like a riser?
From memory riser and it kind of moves.
In the air, which deceives the keeper.
The keeper kind of looks good diving, but ultimately he's gone
over his head in the middle of the goal.
But I think it's just the speed on it.
But it was a brilliant goal. Sanchez can hit him from here.
My word, he's hit that one and it's totally ripped it past Shay
Gibbon, Alexis Sanchez at Wembley again.
In a way it was the killer blow. Arsenal, they wouldn't let the
lead slip the way they were set up.
Villa played like they knew it. Yeah, it's a bit strange really.
From that point on, from what I can see, really only Grealish
look like he thought it was still a match.
Yeah, well the the naivety of. Youth, he still thinks he can
change the game. It's like that ain't going to
happen, mate. So yeah, Arsenal, they wouldn't.
Let the lead slip. Sanchez had a second disallowed,
his 2nd disallowed 5 minutes later for offside and before
Carzola's lashing shot forced the corner in the 62nd minute,
Mertesacker rose highest at Arsenal's third and the final
was essentially over with 28 minutes to go.
Yeah, and. I love Mertzacker.
Actually. He's one of these players I've
got a soft spot for, and especially in one of the FA Cups
that we're going to cover in the future.
There's a great story of Permark Mertzacker's kind of redemption
back to 2015, even when the. Brilliant Walcott was replaced
by Olivier Giroud. Arsenal continued to push
forward in the third minute of second-half stoppage time.
Oxlade Chamberlain's pass fan Giroud, who flipped the ball
into the Aston Villa goal to make it 4 nil to Arsenal.
For Giroud here, it's four. Well, that does wrap it up.
Three nil at Villa Park, 5 nil at Arsenal Emirates Stadium and
four nil now here at Wembley. In winning their 12th FA Cup,
they became the most successful team in the competition's
history. And when you think about the
2000s? And the FA Cup, you just think
of Arsenal, like, and the Ashley Cole link of it all, like with
him and Chelsea and Arsenal you just think of yeah I, I think of
the FA Cup as Arsene Wenger's like defining even though he'd
won a double and he'd won the league, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
I. Weirdly, I think.
I think of the FA Cup wins before I think of his invincible
season and, and that might just be me, but it might also be
recency bias because he. He he won it three times in the
2010, the two that we've covered.
And there's one still to come, which again, kind of held off
the, the dogs barking for his head to roll.
I've mixed metaphors all over the shop there.
It's like a Cinderella story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I came out with the door this. Morning it was dogs barking for
my head to roll. It's awful.
Is it a Monday? Love, love.
There's some dogs barking for my What do they want my head to
roll? I don't know.
Anyway, with that we go to extra time.
Well, you have just witnessed 90 of the most gripping minutes of
European football you'll ever, ever see.
But the good news is there's more to come.
This was the 6th FA Cup win for Arsene Wenger for Arsenal,
putting him in joint first place for wins for Arsenal with George
Ramsey. I assume that's an older.
Manager, I don't really remember is yeah, very much so.
From the 20s and 30s who won it 6 times?
FA Cup for Arsenal. So Wenger is up there now as the
joint first FA Cup wins for Arsenal Football Club.
Both. Tim Sherwood we've barely
mentioned. Yeah, we have.
That's true. I mean, he's a he's a comedy
character, but ultimately he in a way, the fact we've mentioned
him so little is the fact he had very little impact on the day he
every job he. Got he was over his head.
I don't understand why people like I think of his Tottenham
era particularly. Yeah, he started talking.
About his like win. Percentage being the best
Tottenham manager, it's kind of like when you're having the
clutch at straws like that, like the football's awful, He's not
getting that. It's a bit like Anj.
Yeah, Rafa in the back in the day, like when managers even
Marino a little bit when managers come out and start
quoting their stats. Yeah, it reeks of desperation,
absolutely. Like you've taken time out or
someone's time out of the club. Yeah.
Can you arm me with some stats to defend myself?
It's like that. It's ugly.
It.
Is yeah, yeah. Tim Sherwood.
He's a great player. Like an amazing captain for that
Blackburn, yeah, title winning team, yeah.
But as a manager I just thought he was constantly out of his
depth and just, well, the fact he isn't in work now.
Having had two 2 high profile jobs and ultimately failing at
both, absolutely. It's a little bit kind of like I
think people look at him and go, yeah, he ain't got it.
Like he didn't do anything with either.
So anyway, Tim Sherwood and captain Fabindelf can see that
Arsenal were too good for Villa, which is like, no kidding.
Sherwood's quote. I can't make any excuses for
that today. Arsenal was simply too good for
us. We couldn't impose on ourselves
on them or nullify what they had.
I mean. It's great humility from the
both of them, from Delph and like Sherwood to admit that.
But this ties into what you were saying about like once they go 2
nil down, there's no fight in them.
There's no underdog story, there's no we can mount a
comeback. It is like they just look around
like a Premier League game going, yeah, we're probably
going to lose this one and they're just better than us.
It's like you don't want to admit that.
Like I I kind of admire it. Like you say at the end of a
four nil dropping, you don't really have a choice.
But it does make me think like on the pitch, was it like when
we were holding out a nil nil, we almost got to the first half
and then that sucker punch of the second at the start of the
second-half? Yeah, well, two sucker punches.
And, you know, define the game really like the third and the
fourth are kind of like the game's done.
Yeah. The the Walcott goal and the
Sanchez goal really are the story of how Arsenal won this
game. Yeah.
Score. I mean, talk about scoring at
the right time. Like, you know, if England, if
Luke Shaw scored at the wrong time, we always find a way back
there. You know, the the two goals for
us or either side of halftime. It's just like any plans that
the manager would have been making for halftime.
This is what we're going to do. This is what we're going to say.
This is how we're going to and then you do it anyway.
And 5 minutes later the games changed completely.
And like Fricks it like what a waste of time that all was.
And so yeah, no way back at all on Arsenal.
This is funny. On Arsenal's victory parade
after winning the final, Jack Wilshire LED fans in a chant
calling local rivals. Tottenham asked for shit.
The thing I love about that chant, I love that Wilshire did
that. Tottenham got nothing to do with
this, though. But always, always trying.
But for those who don't know, the chant is what do we think of
Tottenham? Shit.
What do we think of shit Tottenham?
Yeah, it's it's the least inventive chant in the world,
but it's just brilliant. It's like she'll just slag off
our rivals. Sure, why not?
What's brilliant about this having?
Previously been warned after a similar chat in the previous
season's victory parade election.
Bullshit. 'S like, I'll roll it back, I'll
do it again. So good.
The FA charged him with misconduct.
Oh no, he admitted the charge. It's on.
TV it was fine, 40 grand. It was severely warned.
Not just warned, severely warned.
Oh dear, Oh dear as. To his future conduct. 40 grand.
He found that down the back of the sofa.
Yeah, exactly. I bet if you'd said him before
he got on the mic, it's gonna cost you 40 grand to see this.
You'd be like, all right, yeah, sure.
Take my money. Brilliant.
Following a change in. UEFA rules This was the first
season where runners up in cup competitions did not enter the
Europa League, so this is unfortunately Villa.
Don't get to benefit like hold it or almost did Exactly.
In fairness, I. Think the rules right because
what happens is the place gets given to the next lowest in the
league. I think it's right in terms of
merit. But it doesn't give as many
fairy tale stories of no clubs getting into Europe.
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, Arsenal would already
qualify for the Trans League by finishing third.
Big big season for them, finishing third and so forth.
The remaining Europa League place went to Southampton as the
highest placed Premier League team that had not qualified for
any other European competition. Wow, I don't remember
Southampton in Europe. I'm just trying to remember who
would know? It what was it Poch?
Was Poch in charge? No, I remember this.
So it wasn't watch, you know, he'd left the season before.
It's Ronald Cuman before he went over to manage Everton.
Oh yeah, of course. So he.
Didn't did a decent enough. He did right.
So yeah, he did he. Was awful at Everton.
Yeah, yeah, it's just another. Everton.
They got a way of making promising managers look absolute
bollocks. They really do.
Roberto Martinez. Yeah, it's really weird.
Yeah, I don't know what it is about Everton.
It's just a play. Just stick to more.
He's just. Do what you know.
Yeah, it's a worry when he stops.
It's like, where are we going to get anyone from anyway?
So just to finally sign off the 2015 Wenger survived another
season. The kind of people you know, the
the dogs that were barking for his head.
They they, I've actually written they got the monkey off his
back. So the the dogs that were
barking for his head to get the monkey off his back.
That's why people. Tune into us Follow away with
words following another show. Mediocre.
Showing that we're not mediocre showing, but no progress showing
in the league and Champions League went out in the quarters
again. He would eventually, as we
started, he would eventually leave on his own terms in 2018
and he would have one more trophy before then, but we will
get to that. What a cliffhanger.
I'm going to call that already. I don't know if it's me or you
covering it, but it's the Mertesacker final and I love it.
There's a great story with him, but hopefully that is
titillating and tantalising You to join us next episode as we
listen to the 2016 FA Cup final.