Hello, Daddy's home. What an amazing.
You just cannot write scripts like this.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to The Final Countdown, the
podcast looking back at great finals within the game of
football. I'm Lewis here, my Co host Adam.
Hello, can I just. Say here we go.
I listened to last week's podcast.
Yeah, the the intro when I interrupted you, it's my
favorite evidence. Still giving you the giggles?
A week later, it made me laugh. Yeah.
And I I took everything within me then to not do it again.
Maybe it could become our thing, a calling card of the the
interruption and banterous nature of our.
You think I should do it? Shouldn't.
No, I think you should it. It can be a thing you.
Don't want to repeat the same joke, you know.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, that would definitely not
be something that we do. And listeners to this podcast
will definitely think they don't repeat the same jokes again and
again and again some time later. Yeah, having derailed the intro,
let's get straight into it. So again, we're we're sticking
with the FA Cup finals. And you did text me saying that
this is Bill Gates. I did.
And you didn't get it. No, I was very confused.
I thought, what's Bill Gates got to do with the FA Cup finals?
Yes. Yes, it's a very, that was a
very good, very good segue to get me interested and to whet my
appetite for I. Also thought your reply of that
is Susan Perv. Oh, Susan Perv.
She's great. Noah.
Well. Took me a while.
Yeah, we are 2013. I didn't realize this was the
cup final. It is.
This is one of the few, if I'm honest.
I'll be honest, please. This is one of the few cup
finals from the 20 tens I remember.
Yeah, no, I can get that. I do understand.
They're all a little bit blurry. I remember Leicester because it
was quite significant and I remember this one.
And if I'm honest, the other ones are kind of like, Oh yeah.
Once you hear who's in the final, it kind of goes.
I think I remember some things about that, but.
This one did grab my attention when it happened.
So yes, cast your mind back to 2013, the 132nd FA Cup finals.
So much heritage. It is so much history.
It's worth saying as well, I don't know how many times we've
said this on the pod, but it is the oldest cup competition in
the world. Yeah, and that made me think.
I wonder what the second is. Is it the sorry?
The coup. De.
France. The English FA Cup was 1871.
Wow. The next oldest cup competition
started in 1873. Oh, OK, very close.
Yeah, I was going to guess the coup de France.
It's not France, no. It is kind of obvious when I say
it. The Scottish Cup final.
Oh yeah, that's very obvious. Yeah, I see football invented in
this country. Absolutely.
And the Scots? Will have a bit of that.
Yeah, exactly. Tried to copy us.
Yeah, it's it's not worked out well for them, let's be honest.
Well, 1873 it was Celtic versus Rangers. 8074 SO.
I've no idea if it was, I did love that, but that that would
be absolutely classic if it was anyway.
And all that time since 1871. So this sets us up nicely.
And this is a bit random if you don't know who's in the final
Wigan Athletic. Oh wow.
Had never reached a cup final in 132 attempts, yeah, And
therefore they'd obviously never won a cup final.
And that is not just FA Cup final, that is any any cup
final. But obviously we're looking at
FA Cup final. So that that made me then think
and I went off on another sure digression.
How many kind of heavyweight teams?
So not like, you know, Dagenham and Redbridge, but how many
heavyweight teams have never won an FA Cup?
Oh that is good so. I thought it was quite
interesting. So here's the list.
OK, go for it. And I can also tell you if you
want to know the closest they've come and who they lost to so.
You've done your homework today. You've got receipts for all of.
Us I like it table I've found. Thank you Internet.
Copy the paste, doing the work. It is interesting.
So teams have never won and some of these are like what?
Birmingham City. Yeah, I knew that one.
Which is quite strange being it's a major city.
Yeah, of course. Second City, Bournemouth, which
second in the Premier League now.
Well, I was about to say Bournemouth, you kind of could
be convinced and go, do you remember when they won it in
2022 and you kind of go? Oh yeah, sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you think Bournemouth
haven't been a big club for a long time really.
They haven't, and in fairness, the best they've ever got is
quarter finals. I still feel my thoughts 3.
Three times. That's three times in 132.
True, true. Yeah.
Brentford, yeah, Brighton, which I thought was interesting.
Like four of these teams here are kind of like Premier League,
Middle of the Road Runners now. Well, it's because also I'll add
in Fulham. Yeah, OK, so Fulham I don't
think of ever, barring the Championship have ever won any
kind of trophy. It's not just cups or yeah.
So they they somehow are a very, very established club in the
best league in the world and yet they have no nothing in their
trophy cabinet really other than Championship title, maybe a
couple. But yeah, interestingly, I think
it's coming more into the spotlight now because of the
success of Newcastle in the League Cup.
But I do think that I'm Crystal Palace in Africa.
Well, Palace were on this list until last year, yeah.
Yeah. And I just think it's kind of
been disregarded I think by a lot of those mid level Premier
League clubs as a kind of, we'd rather try and push to get into
Europe and focus on a cup run. But I do think that will start
to change with Newcastle, with Crystal Palace, where people are
seeing these mid level clubs have their day in the sun, have
this incredible moment that the fans will never.
Think it's a special day? Yeah, Both Palace and Newcastle
last year it was it. You'll remember those ones
exactly. Fans obviously will.
Yeah. And I just think like for
Bournemouth, obviously they're doing incredibly well at the
start of this year, although they did last year as well and
dropped off a little bit. But but I reckon if you ask
their fans, you know, would you care about the difference
between a Europa League, Europa Conference League position or
finishing two points outside of Europe?
But having won their FA Cup, I do, I genuinely think you take
the FA Cup. I.
Think they will. I think fans would, yeah.
I don't think business. No club would.
That's the problem. Yeah, exactly.
And I do wonder because sometimes managers will very
obviously prefer the league to the cup.
And you think, but as Bournemouth, maybe maybe not a
good example because I'm sure they were trying, but that sense
of like we've made it to the quarter finals.
We're two games away here, a coin toss of of getting into
either Europe or winning a trophy.
And you just kind of think just go for it a bit more like Fulham
should really, because let's face it, Fulham will finish
somewhere between 12th and 8th. So you just.
Think. And they're quite established
there, yeah. And on their day they've got
some very good players and you just think just surely put all
your eggs in a cup basket. And just really try for them.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Right.
I mean, I guess it depends, you know when you know when the
fourth round drops and who they've got that week and
there's an element of circumstantial about it.
But it is interesting that 4 pretty settled Premier League
clubs, Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton, Fulham have never won
an FA Cup. Brighton and Fulham have been
runners up. Yeah, 83 for Brighton, which
we've covered 75. West Ham beat them, right?
That's the closest Fulham I've ever got.
But Brentford and Bournemouth, quarter finals, Yeah, 132 years,
quarter finals. Best they've ever done.
And you think Brentford have been established for a long time
now and probably am Bournemouth, to be fair.
Yeah, you just. But I agree with you.
A lot of it is about the luck of the draw, which I'll focus on in
my report next week. But yeah, I I do Teaser.
Oh yeah, narrative. Just.
Just to finish off this list, there's not some, I mean, some
of these are like, well, these were big clubs back in the
Panini sticker days. Oh yes, now you're talking my
language. Hull City, Luton Town,
Middlesbrough, Norwich, QPR. Middlesbrough and QPR surprised
me. Yeah, Middlesbrough, I would
have thought somewhere. They would have run us up in 97.
Yeah, yeah. When they probably had their
best shot with Ravinelli and and Giannini and.
Then they got relegated, didn't they, the year after?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And yeah, we'll come back to. That's an interesting point,
QPR, Reading, Stoke, which is kind of well documented that
they've never won anything. Swansea semifinals twice and
Watford runners up twice. Watford.
Yeah, you would have thought in the Graham Taylor days.
Yeah, well that was 84 runners up to Everton and then 20, I
forgot this 2019 the runners up to Man City.
Oh yeah. But we don't, we don't.
Well, I mean, we will talk about it, but for Watford they will
probably send us in some some money to make sure that we don't
talk about that final too much. Yeah, I mean, they came up
against Juggernaut didn't. They they did.
Yeah, it was. It was very much like, hey, my
14 year old's just getting into boxing.
Have you got Muhammad Ali to come and smile with him?
It's. Probably.
Probably not the match up you wanted.
Yeah, true enough. So all that to say that the 2013
FA Cup final, Wigan had a big day, yeah, because they made the
final. Now that you said Wigan, I
obviously think of the commentary sting that we drop in
often of the the Ben Watson goal and the celebration which I'm
sure you'll get into. Yeah.
But again, I'm with you that there is something very
memorable about this cup final. Having said that, I remember the
moment. I don't remember much of the
final so I'm looking forward to hearing about.
It well, I mean, yeah, you're in terms of like the story it is
mainly about that 81st minute winner is.
That is that 81st minute. I thought it was much later than
that. Very interesting.
No, sorry, 81st minute is when he comes on, right?
Sorry, yeah, I got confused there. 81st because we're
jumping ahead and I'm not there yet.
Sorry. 81st minute is where Ben Watson comes on.
But you're right, first minute of injury time.
Yeah well was the actual goal. So to go back a little bit and
set it up for us. So it's much more meaningful.
Meaningful for you non Wigan fans.
It was a big day out for Wigan, but also for chairman Dave
Whelan. So Dave Whelan was the chairman
of Wigan, he was the DW Sports, which I also think was JJB
Sports at 1:00. Point.
Yeah, that sounds about. Right, he was the head honcho.
He bought the club in 1995. I didn't realise this.
We're going to been non league until 78.
I didn't know. That so they, they, you know, in
terms of like 132 years of trying, Well, not really.
Yeah, sure. They they weren't a actual
professional club until 1978. They're kind of like hovered
around the lower leagues up until 95 when Dave Wheeling came
in and bought his hometown club and it kind of changed
completely. I think him, and I'm thinking of
like Steve Gibson and Majeski at Reading, those kind of local,
you will never get that. Jack Walker.
Jack Walker, Yeah, exactly. Those local owners that are able
to, at the right moment, take over the club, invest in the
right areas and see that rise, that must be a dream come true
for them. That's kind of thing where it's
like if me and you won the lottery and we've got like, oh,
we've got £400 million, yeah, all by Western.
See what we can do. Even that I mean how far would
that? Go well.
Well, this is it. Yeah, No, totally.
It's it's it's a bygone era now. However, that's ultimately I
think what the fans would prefer rather than being owned by state
or owned by. Yeah, they just hedge fund.
I don't think the individual. Has them.
No, no, you're absolutely right. It will never happen.
Again, unless Abramovich buys his local club.
Well, interesting if we can. No, that's not.
Good. No, that's not good.
So anyway, Dave Whelan was from a different era in a way.
So a fan of Wigan all his life, he actually played for Wigan.
And this is where it sets up. And if you remember this kind of
the whole story of Dave Whelan and why it was so synonymous
with him and what happened here under his leadership as
chairman, Wigan grew as a club and it peaked, really did peak.
And we'll come back to that in the cup run of 2013.
But rewind 53 years. Wow.
So the FA Cup final between Blackburn Rovers and Wolves.
Dave Whelan suffered a horrific leg break shortly before half
time. Wow.
Playing in the cup final, not just in the stands.
Yeah, sure. He's really jumping up and down
celebrating, but I had no idea he was a player.
That's really interesting. So when he regained
consciousness, bad leg break, he learned his team had lost three
nil. So he played for Blackburn and
his and the trophy was on its way back to Molyneux.
And that would have been the time when there were no
substitutes, so him breaking his leg would have been Blackburn.
Now that's ten men and that is horrific.
What a what a double whammy of breaking your leg and the cup
high. So a lot of people from reading
about Dave Williams, I mean, it's obviously limited amount,
but Dave Williams career never really recovered from that
point. He was never the same player
afterwards. He himself spoke about the fact
that it was the pain of that kind of whole traumatic
experience. Cup final best day of his
career, breaks his leg, misses out, you know, loses the cup
final. So he said it was the pain of
the that defeat, rather than the leg break itself that I
continued to carry around with me.
Wow, so that's heavy, isn't? It rich mate.
Bill Gates. Bill Gates.
We're getting into a deal on must territory.
Yeah. Oh, whoa.
So that was Wigan and that's how they got there.
We'll come back to them in a minute but just to set them up,
who did they have to play going against them in the final with a
new heavyweight giants of English football, Manchester
City. That's right.
So Man City, just if you've forgotten or you haven't
listened in recently, Man City had won the FA Cup in 2011 and
then the Premier League, Aguero in 2012.
That was good. That was, yeah, maybe a little
bit low pitch. Yeah, yeah, a little bit higher.
Exactly high and almost your voice breaking.
I swear you'll never see anything like this again.
Absolutely. Those words belong to mine
entirely. Yeah, that should be on his tune
Stone. I swear you'll never see
anything like this ever again. He's not wrong.
Cheers mate.
Swear about that force. Reckon Clive Tilsley will have
remember the name Clive Tilsley on his on his headstone.
Weird. Who's that?
Wade. Rudy.
He's buried there like Tilsley. Strange thing to say anyway.
So the final. Sorry, sorry, Kenneth Watson
home. They think it's all over.
It is now. This is so good.
You could definitely. Do do an episode.
Yeah, that's that's very good, David.
Coleman What? Nil.
Play more Kevin, do you back him?
Do you back him for resurrect? Yes.
Oh no. Kevin Oh dear, that was nice,
right? I liked it.
OK, so the FA Cup final was being played before the last two
games between Wigan and Man City, before the last two games.
So again we have this kind of weird FA Cup final is not really
that important. The Premier League is still
going. So before the last two games of
the Premier League season, which is actually crazy really, like
the season's still going and still things and things were to
be decided. As we'll find out, Wigan
Athletic were in 18th place in the league, so being threatened
by relegation, 40 points behind Manchester City who were in
second. It's basically a football
season's difference between the two teams, isn't it?
Wigan could play another another season.
Not necessarily. Catch them.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, weird.
So Man City was second. It's worth saying and
remembering that this was Fergie's swansong, so he picked
the title back from Man City and then walked away to the sunset,
which was a hell of an achievement.
This. We don't want to go too far down
to Man United. No, sure.
What the hell would he do? Winning.
Winning with that too. Yeah, exactly.
I think that might be the greatest achievement of
Ferguson's career. Yeah, it genuinely might be.
It genuinely might be. Although June then have the
question of did he leave the club in a great state for his?
I mean, evidently he didn't. Yeah, I and there's almost a
little bit of like. It was a way, I mean, I guess if
you look at CLOP and the way. That's what I mean.
He. Left it, but I don't know if
there was a way for Ferguson because that's you can't compare
Clop and Ferguson. No, no, I'm not.
I'm not trying to. But even just the longevity as
the amount of time was there, like that club was everything
was Ferguson, yeah, was Clop wouldn't have been.
Allowed to have that? No, No.
I don't know what he could have done other than find another
class of money. Too.
Yeah, and also, you can't really start a rebuild and then hand it
off to a manager that might have different ideas.
It's probably best to say, look, this has come to the end of its
cycle. It's up to you to do, yeah, what
you think's best. But this report isn't about man.
Yeah, sorry. Yeah.
So United won the title. City were a wounded animal in
the cup final as they had been beaten to the Premier League a
year after the most amazing, dramatic Premier League
conclusion. Man City had beaten Wigan in
each of the most recent seven Premier League matches between
the sides. Yeah, I mean all of this to
paint the picture of this was, you know, your 14 year old son
against. Yeah.
Exactly. On steroids, yeah.
Yeah. Like it was ridiculous how one
side in this final should have been.
Yeah. Before the match it was reported
in the Daily Telegraph that manager Roberto Mancini, so
Mancini is still there at Man City, that his job was under
threat. Interested.
Yeah. How crazy do the expectations
change, though? Between Man City getting all the
money pumped in, they finally win the league and a season
later it's like you finished second, we might have to sack
you. So we'll come back to it because
there's some weird stuff that goes on even on the morning of
the final with Mancini in his job.
But it was literally reported that morning that he had failed
to meet the like, box ticking expectations, one of which was
win the Premier League title. Can you imagine that?
Yeah, well, we gotta do this year, guys.
Win it. Yeah, but that is the level of
pressure now for the Super clubs.
It's maybe not so much with Man City in Liverpool, where it's
like if you finish second or third, you'll get the sack.
That isn't the case. But it's the whole like, again,
we're somehow going back to them.
But Man United where it is kind of, there's still an unwritten
rule not of winning the Premier League, but it's like get back
into the Champions League. But have you seen the club?
It's a basket case like right now.
A 10th place to finish would be progress.
But yeah, you don't get the chance.
If if Ameren finishes tenth, you probably probably gonna.
Go gets to the end of the season.
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's a weird
1. You think about it.
I know Pep's a very different animal and he's won six titles,
so it's a different thing to compare.
But Manchini wins one title and his, you know, expectation of
the following year is win the title again and then qualify for
the Champions League, which he did.
He qualified for the Champions League, but he didn't win the
title. Right, Pep, He didn't win the
title last year. No suggestion whatsoever, no,
that he will do anything other than what he.
Wants, but like you say, you've got you've got the credit in the
bank and Mancini has proven to be a good manager, a very good
manager. But in pet Pew it is a bit.
It is unique because he is 1 most undoubtedly the greatest
manager. Of the year, but I'm intrigued
by this and we talked about this at the start of the season
preview, preview and then. Season preview.
Preview and then Arteta as well. We've talked about it is how
many, how many years does he get?
If that's the way Man City do it, maybe they don't anymore.
But if that's the way they do it, his expectations for the
year and he misses them. No, you're right.
Has he missed them before? Yeah, if Man City finished third
again this year. Yeah, and.
And don't win silverware. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, no, you are right. Eventually it'll the question
mark will hang. Although from my pre season
preview I did suggest that my my wives, yeah, my outside, my
left, outside left field. That's like left field.
Yeah, sure. Prediction was that that Pep
would either walk or kind of mutual consent leave.
I think he'd go at the end of the season, as in, I think he
would just quietly walk off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't. I can't see him ever being fired
having won six titles. Yeah.
I want the drama, I want, I want the charges to be revealed and
for Pep to be like, Nah, I'm leaving.
This is a corrupt club. As if he didn't benefit from it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. Interestingly, it was suggested
that Malaga manager Manuel Pellegrini was to be Mancini's
successor. That was reported on the morning
of the final. That's crazy now and you've got
to think, ah, the club briefing that because it's a strange
time, like most journalists will be focused on the cup final
itself. You almost get the idea.
Has somebody from within the club come?
Well that's drip fed this. I mean, it has to be.
I mean, spoiler alert, that's what happens.
Yeah, yeah. Pellegrini takes over, Yeah, so
that isn't like a punt. No, no.
Someone has said this is what we're.
Looking at yeah exactly and and it's dependent on this cup
final. It's random, and it really is.
Which if you Mancini, you're probably going.
He must know. I know, but he also is probably
thinking well I'm going to win the cup final so I've probably
got enough credit in the bank. Like he isn't envisioning losing
to Wigan so. Maybe.
You know what? They can talk about it.
Although maybe he was going to go anyway.
Yeah, true. I mean, it's like come out
recently, didn't it? Ange knew he was fired before.
Oh, I did. I missed that.
Yeah, so he knew it was coming before the Europa League final.
Wow, Don't make a difference, just enjoy it.
But you're gone. Yeah, it's random in it.
Very interesting. So back to the route to the
final. City had routed everyone on the
way to the final scores of three nil, 4 nil, 2 nil and five nil.
Juggernaut is the right word. It is and said just they are
Goliath. Saw them reach the finals, semi
final, sorry against defending champions Chelsea.
A bit of a harder game, their goals from Nazri and Aguero saw
City scraped through 2/1 and the chance for silverware to save
Mancini's job. Apparently.
Yeah. Wigan needed a replay to see off
Bournemouth. Perennial losers.
Paul Bournemouth a. 132 years in a row and then scraped past.
Amazingly saw off Bournemouth and replay scraped past
Macclesfield and Huddersfield. Finally their feet.
They then saw off the giants of Everton before beating what you
say before beating Millwall in the Sammy.
Now I don't know if you notice about that list.
They didn't play any Premier League opposition except except
Everton. Yeah, that's a good, that's a
good run. All of them lower league.
So jokes side I'm an Evan fan but Evan were terrible in 2013.
So one Premier League team and not a great 1?
Isn't that crazy? Yeah, but again, we said at the
start it's about luck of the draw and the the the tidbit that
I hinted at. I'll say now about next week's
episode. It's exactly the same with Hull,
who gets to the FA Cup final. Yeah, they just play lower
league opposition. They just get luck.
In the draw, yeah, totally. It's.
Not their fault, but you are like if, if they had any point
come up against in quotation marks, a good team, yeah, they
they would almost definitely have lost.
And then you're probably talking about, oh, it was a Villa, Man
City final. Or it was a.
Chelsea, Man City final if the draw's slightly different.
And I guess it also depends, like, you know, they face
Millwolf, for instance, in the semis.
It depends on, you know, what Millwolf got going on, what
injuries they've got, what they're fighting for.
And, you know, it's complete random.
Yeah, of course, you look at that.
Go on Millwall. You know, they should have
beaten them or blah, blah, blah, but it's like we, unless you're
literally there in the moment, in that week, you can't.
Really. But that, ultimately, is why cup
competitions are so exciting. Yeah, true.
It's. Because yeah, OK, over the space
of 38 games you you find out who, cliche, the league table
doesn't lie. You can't hide over 38 games,
but you can in the cup. Competition.
Yeah, you can. Yeah, and that's why it's.
Because we're good. We're not the second best team
in the country. No, exactly.
Yeah. That they were, yeah, yeah,
yeah, absolutely. So Pop quiz manager of Wigan.
Roberto Martinez. Very good.
Yeah, there we. Go.
I forgot that. Yeah, he's obviously gone on to
quite bigger things. Absolutely.
Yeah, He's, he's, he's burgeoning his reputation as a
great international manager as well now.
So where is he now? He was Belgium.
Yeah, and now he is Portugal. That's what I thought, yeah,
yeah. So he's done really well.
But he I didn't realise he played for Wigan in his.
That's right. Yeah, so there was the link
there. That's why he ended up at Wigan,
right? A bit of a Dave Whelan coup and
it obviously worked out. The Wigan squad had woken up to
find inspiration. This is brilliant, inspirational
messages from their team mates. So this is Roberto Martinez had
some what they would call master strokes.
A lot of the reading I did was the the squad talking about how
he was psychologically brilliant for them and they didn't go in
there thinking we're going to get whooped by a massive
heavyweight team, which is a hell of a thing to.
Watch Players. Of so they had woken up to
inspirational messages pushed under their hotel doors from
their teammates. It was one of a number of
psychological math strips by Martinez, Gary Caldwell, Wiggins
club captain, said. We have been seeing a
psychologist in the build up to the final and the day before the
game we didn't exercise where the players and staff had to
write down why we were pride to be walking out Wembley with each
other. We handed it back unsigned and
did not know what it was going to be used for that night or the
next morning. Everyone find an envelope under
their door. We opened it to find everything
our teammates and staff had written about us on strips of
paper. That's really cool.
Yeah, that's great. It was quite emotional and very
powerful. Nobody signed any of it, so you
did not know know who had written what, but you obviously
had some idea. It made everyone feel 10 feet
tall on the morning of the final.
That's great. I love that, Yeah.
Brilliant. I mean, are you?
Listening Thomas Tookel, can you pick up some man management from
Roberto Martinez just. Pushing it, Harry, you're great.
You've got a massive head, Harry.
You imagine you'd get Harry gets Harry Kane's message though.
Oh yeah, true. It'd be a bit.
Go for why? Why is there so much saliva on
this handwritten note? For IT guys, you're all great.
So the kick off time for the final we mentioned obviously
change opposed to the traditional three PMI don't know
if that's true anymore because it wasn't really traditional
anymore, but it was 515 start. This was controversial,
particularly with regard to both sets of supporters having to
travel back up north. The secretary of the Manchester
City Supporters Club stated that not only does it show the FA
don't care, but it shows they don't know.
Yeah, yeah. Are you ignorant?
Right. I'm glad you got there first.
I don't know. I don't care.
I. Don't know, I don't care.
The FA don't think about stuff like young children are four or
six years old, I don't know, by 4 or 6.
Where's all the five? The five year old erasure in
this kind of common. Five year olds are bad.
Terrible. Four or six you're potentially
not getting home until 2:00 AM if they're travelling by coach
It. Also the subject is ridiculous.
It was also the subject of a cross party early day motion in
the House of Commons. I mean some people are taking it
too seriously. Also if you're taking a six year
old to the FA Cup final, who gives a crap?
Have one late night, it'll be fine.
Like yeah OK, it's not ideal. They're going to be grumpy for
school the next day. Nobody cares if they've gone to
an FA Cup final at six years old.
Yeah, amazing. Give them a day off.
Yeah, exactly. Pay the fine.
So anyway, with all of that build up, we had Wigan versus
Man City in the 2013 FA Cup final and here is the match you
just cannot right strips. Like.
This in a nice touch. Wigan Athletic owner Dave
Whelan, remember this, LED out his team before kickoff, along
with, I don't remember manager Martinez.
Yeah, Roberta Martinez went to him and said you need to classy
touch. Yeah, you need to lead us out.
That's lovely. This is your final, which he
strikes me as that kind of guy, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. There was rumours around the
Brendan Rodgers appointment that Martinez was going to come to
Liverpool, and I remember obviously kind of reading about
that and many people were saying, oh, tactically he's
interesting, but a lot of people were saying that he is very
personable, so don't surprise me to hear that.
Yeah, he's kind of always been like that.
Just a nice touch. I, I don't think Martinez had
got to a final himself before that.
So that I just think that's really cool.
Like that was share the spotlight.
It was his moment really, the chairman doesn't lead people out
and yet he let him. I think that's really cool.
So into the game itself, City start strong is the headline
which you could kind of see coming 2 minutes into the game.
Zabaletta made a run down the right wing, crossed the ball
which took a deflection before falling to Silver whose volley
was blocked by MacArthur. Aguero was then fouled by
Alcaraz on the edge of the Wigan penalty area but the subsequent
free frequent was blocked, Bull finding its way to Yaya Tore,
whose shot was pushed away by Robles.
This is the first 10 minutes of the game.
City continued to push us Tore around the game with Silver in
the middle of the park, which is.
You could say that sentence from most games.
Man City in this era. Yeah, absolutely.
Now, what was interesting about the way that Wiggins set up is
that they played A3421 and Julie Lescott we got I got a few
quotes from but he talked about I'm got it necessary.
But I remember him talking about this.
He said that it actually threw the City players because the
fullbacks didn't drop back. So they literally played with
three defense and. That's it.
Wow. Brave.
Very. Incredibly, Yeah.
So. And he was like, we didn't, we
were really confused by it because these wide wing backs
didn't defend. Yeah, yeah.
And it was like, oh man, they're still ready to attack.
Yeah. So interesting and they, you
know, certainly brave, but also they try something different,
which usually when a little club tries something differently
against a big club, it's. Just like, yeah, exactly.
That was crap, but it seemed to, well, I don't know.
It seemed to work in the sense that they didn't let any goals
in, but it's not like City didn't have the chances.
The only chance for Wigan in the whole of the first half came 9
minutes before the halftime whistle.
Alcoraz running through the middle of the pitch and pass to
McManaman, not Steve. No Callum who went.
Round Nastasich yeah, before a shot was blocked by Zabaletta
and Hart on the line. So that was literally the only
chance that we can have the entire first half, which I would
say that's pretty good return. Yeah, has what to say.
There was a game we did a little while ago, wasn't there?
Ken Wyn Jones had the only chance.
Stoke. Stoke.
Yeah, that's right. And we talked about the fact
that these little teams, they, they must know that they might.
Only. Yeah, exactly.
One chance. In fairness, Wigan didn't set up
like that. They didn't set up like Stoke
did. But you kind of, I wonder if
there's a part of the going in at halftime going.
That might have been it, yeah. Totally.
That might have been the chance. We might be looking back on Go
God, I've only scored that, but it was to not be.
It was not to be. second-half saw no changes to the team,
which is quite strange for a cup final.
No Subs on either side, but a marked change to the flow of the
game. Both teams traded chances as the
match opened up completely and Wigan came back into Aguero.
Barry and Company all had chances, but Wigan held firm.
Then the latex came back at City into the 65th minute with Gomez
firing over as Company threw himself to block his shot.
McManaman, not Steve, then caused Zabaletta to the first
booking as a professional foul bought him a yellow card.
Now you might wonder why I'm mentioning a random yellow card.
Yeah sure, it's significant. I forgot this happened.
Just remember Zabaletta on a booking, Jack Rodwell coming on
fired a three quick just wide and then what happened to Jack
Rodwell? I I was funny, I was gonna
interrupt and then I thought I won't.
But yeah, Jack Rodwell happened. He was heralded as like the next
big England midfielder. It was and it just it all, yeah,
it all went terribly from him because he signed from Everton
to Man City is. That right, yeah.
Big break up season. Yeah, yeah.
And he, I think there are some suggestions off the pitch.
He wasn't very dedicated and there might have been other
complications. From.
From memory, and I think it was just one of those that he kind
of had all the natural raw talent, but maybe not the
dedication. Just one of those people.
It's like he's quite a big name and I, I assume he's retired.
I don't know yet. I think he was one of those.
I don't he yeah. In all honesty I don't know if
he's retired now but he did carry on playing for a while but
dropped right down the leagues and and played for some random
clubs. Crazy, isn't it?
This is probably the peak of his career.
Yeah, Cup final, right? So anyway, Jack Rodwell, he
fired a free kick just wide and then Gomez struck the bar for
Wigan with a cross. Comes shot and then in the 81st
minute Wigan Athletic made their first and only substitution.
Oh wow, that is really. Interesting.
Ben Watson. Yes.
Coming on to replace Gomez Watson had returned from his own
broken leg only six months before.
Amazing. So I'd like to call this the
broken leg final. Yeah, sure.
No one's. Calling it that, it's not
catchy, but it does. It does help remind you of the
context it does. 53 years apart, 2 broken legs and they decided
the cup final. Amazing symmetry.
That's narrative. That is, you should do a.
Podcast mate. Thanks mate.
So Ben Watson comes on. Three minutes later, Company
received a pull pass from GAIL Cliche Cliche in the centre
circle with Kony intercepted. He passed to McManaman, not
Steve, who was fouled by Zabaletta around 30 yards from
the Man City goal. As a result, Zabaletta received
his second yellow card and was sent off and became the third
player to be dismissed in the FA Cup final.
No memory of that whatsoever. Really interesting that you
don't think about. I know it was late in the game,
but you don't think about Man City going down to 10 when we're
going to beat them? Yeah, really interesting.
I mean, I don't know how much difference it made maybe in
terms of the city's ability to put any pressure on at this
point, but. Yeah, maybe.
Again a a side of cities. That's what I mean.
I don't think it would have made a huge.
It doesn't take away what we're going to manage to do, really.
I don't think it's like, oh, if they'd had 11 men, this wouldn't
have happened. Yeah, anyway, Zabalet a third
man, just final countdown revision the other two.
I can't even remember their names.
I remember covering them both. Yeah, I wanna say Paul McGrath,
but it. Isn't no.
It is that final though. Is it Kevin Moran?
Kevin Moran, Yeah, I can't remember the other.
One and the other one I forget is Reyes.
For us, Oh yeah, of course. Which I think we talked about
the fact we forgotten that one as well.
I think that was late as well. It was like literally a minute,
a minute left to go. Yeah, it was.
Ben Watson remembers thinking a Zabilet was sent off.
This is it. This is it.
You will never get a better chance to win an FA Cup final.
Wow, it's cool isn't it? And he wasn't let back to let it
pass by. In the final minute of the
match, Wigan Athletic won a corner which was played in by
Maloney. Watson beat Rodwell to the ball
at the near post and headed it inside the far post of the goal
to give Wigan Athletic the lead. Maloney takes and it's in, it's
Ben Watson. It's Ben Watson for Wigan
Athletic. They've surely won the FA Cup,
for Dave Whelan, for Roberto Martinez.
You just cannot write strips like this.
Shout out as well. Joe Hart makes this goal look
brilliant. It's.
A brilliant dive. Yes, TV dive.
Yeah, it really is. It's like the balls already gone
past you. Joe, can you make it look good?
That's great. That seems to be what's in his
even. Joe Hart played his part.
That's heart, woman. A minute later, the final, I
mean, just not burned past that, the goal, it happens at the end
where the Wigan fans are. Yes, it is.
The celebrations aren't. I think the expression is limbs.
Yes, yeah, absolutely. It is crazy to us, it is just
like thousands of people jumping up and down in probably one of
the best moments of their life, while the players also
experience one of their best moments of their lives.
It is brilliant. It's a great shot as well.
Dave Whelan jumping up and punching, yeah, which is really
cool to watch. So it's one of those ones where
it's like if you have any affinity to football and
emotion. Yeah, go watch it.
This is the one for. You, it's great.
It really is a cool moment. A minute later the final whistle
was blown and Wigan Athletic had won the match one nil, securing
the FA Cup for the first and only time in their history.
Absolutely amazing stuff. And since then, things have only
really gotten worse for Wiggins. So just what a moment for them.
Yeah, incredible moment I guess. Yeah, we will get into that for
sure. But yeah, Wigan deserve part of
their day in the sun. They had their day in the sun.
They beat the heavyweight giants of English football, not just
some random team. They beat Man City at Wembley.
Yeah, which not many, not many teams have done that.
So they wouldn't have his glory. And we head into extra time.
Well, you have just witnessed 90 of the most terrific minutes of
European football you'll ever, ever see.
The good news is there's more to come.
The sadness comes quickly. So Wigan, they obviously won
their they had alcohol banned on the coach home so they
celebrated with Lucozade. Yeah, as you do.
I tell you what, Sometimes that'll be worse, though.
You imagine the come down from that, the sugar high to the
sugar low. What's?
Interesting about it is that the reason it was banned is because
they had a game two days later. Yeah, Premier League game two
days later. So they travelled back,
celebrated with Lucozade that they had a game that they had to
win against Arsenal 3 three days later, sorry, they lost 41 and
were relegated. Heartbreaking.
Really. It isn't a strange, strange
season. And what a week, Yeah, Like last
Saturday, won the cup final and now we're playing in the
championship. Yeah, it's very bizarre.
I'm very sad because don't come back up, do they?
No, it just goes from bad to work.
No, yeah. And and we're gonna have been in
the Premier League for eight years.
So they've been around, they've been a little bit of a
Brentford, Bournemouth, kind of like are they gonna survive it?
Yeah, yeah. And they they ultimately didn't
do enough this season. You know, people would like to
say they're distracted by the cup run, which is the opposing
point to what you made earlier. You know, did they go down?
I mean, would they have gone down anyway?
Like Martinez left the club and signed for Everton on a four
year deal a month after the finals, so that was probably
already cooking. I assume that kind of thing is
long in the making and not. Especially because would it have
been Moyes was leaving to take over from Ferguson.
So again. And that was announced.
Was that's what I mean, Ferguson would have already tapped up
Moyes. So I think it like you say, all
the think cogs were already. Emotional, of course, so
Martinez left so in a way it kind of brought down the curtain
on this era of Wigan. So yeah, they were relegated.
So they became the first team to be relegated and win their fake
up in the same season. Middlesbrough obviously have
gone to the final and been relegated, so this was the first
team to do that, which is an unwanted piece of history.
Yeah, sure, on to Man City. Roberto Mancini was dismissed
days after the final with the club citing that he had failed
to achieve any of the club's targets with the exception of
qualification for next season's Champions League.
Brutal. Which I can only imagine.
Then the only target, it must have been to win the Premier
League. Like, yeah, yeah, win the
Premier League, I guess. Maybe silverware.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, would he have stayed if
he'd won the Cup either it. Doesn't seem I.
Don't think, yeah, it doesn't seem it's really put out a
different press release, defender Julia Lescott later
reflected. It was a little bit weird on the
morning of the final we were eating breakfast together as a
squad and the TV's were on with Sky Sports News reporting that
Mancini was going to get. Sacked bizarre sack, Yeah.
Eating breakfast with them, that's.
Awkward. So strange in it.
Pellegrini, as predicted, was appointed as the full time
replacement for Mancini in June 2013.
So yeah, someone had that league absolutely correct and bang on.
This is interesting. The bogey team for City were
Wigan Athletic in the cup. Really.
Yeah, I didn't realize this. Wigan Athletic defeated Man City
again in the sixth round of the following season's FA Cup.
When they're lower league teams, yeah.
Winning two, one at the City of Manchester Stadium.
Fantastic. They failed to retain the trophy
after they lost in a penalty shootout against Arsenal.
The semi. So that's quite in the semi.
Yeah, they got all the way to the semi the year after like
this kind of giant killing, you know, win 2013 finalists met for
1/3 FA Cup, FA Cup tie in the 2017 eighteen tournament where
Wigan then in League One by that point.
So they dropped two divisions in five years, won the fifth round
tie, one nil, at the DW Stadium, which was described by BBC Sport
as one of the biggest FA Cup giant killings in history.
Fantastic stuff, well done Latics, fancy just can't get
past. I love that.
It's good in it but the final word is for Dave Whelan, Emerson
Boyce who was captain on the day and that the club captain was
injured, Gary Colwell, the chairman.
Dave Whelan let us out on the pitch and he spoke to us right
before the game. Obviously we knew all about his
broken leg in the 1960 final. People would always joke to us
in the build up that he was telling that story again and
again and again, but this time he just said that was the that
that was the memory he had of Wembley.
So we had to go out there and create a memory for ourselves.
He shook everyone's hands before we went out and it was his
proudest moment to walk back out on that pitch, to leave his
team, his club, out at Wembley for an FA Cup final and see us
bury the memory of his previous final 53 years before.
Oh, it's beautiful. That is.
That is why football still holds its romance and charm for
moments like that. I know this is over a decade ago
now, but that is, that's really heartwarming.
That is the kind of thing where you're like, that's why football
can be great. Yeah, it's great story.
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, Amazing stuff.
That's really, really good reports.
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