1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,480 That is always so loud. Hello welcome to something 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,520 positive for positive people. I'm Courtney Brain, something 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,440 positive for positive people is A5O1C3, nonprofit organization 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,840 supporting people navigating herpes statement and we have 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,960 December 12th hour. I'm going to just make it a 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,600 karaoke event actually, so December 12th from 5:00 PM to 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,240 9:00 PM and then maybe some stuff will be going on 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,240 afterwards. We're going to have a karaoke 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,600 night in Brooklyn, NY. You can go to spfpp.org/shop in 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,040 order to get your tickets to that. 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,400 We're going to be celebrating 400 podcast episodes. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,920 I hope to be able to hire a performer and be able to just 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,640 make this a really good time. I already paid for and rented 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,560 out the venue, so at this point, really all you got to do is just 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,280 get a ticket and show up to the space. 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,400 And I'm, yeah, excited for the kind of cultivation of community 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,160 that we're bringing together there. 18 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,960 Support groups meet on Mondays, 7:30 PM Eastern Time. 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,360 The first and third Mondays are for women. 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,080 The 2nd and 4th Mondays are for men. 21 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,280 All right, I'm facilitating all of these support groups. 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:23,960 If that's an issue, I hope that you would consider some of the 23 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:26,240 other options that we have available on the website as 24 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,960 well, directing people to other support groups that might be led 25 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,000 by people of other genders. As of right now, I do not know 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,040 anything that is exclusively trans or not binary and that's 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:43,640 also listed on the site, but there is a queer film LED group, 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,600 queers and films support group that you can find on the website 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,200 as well directing you to that option. 30 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,080 And I think that's really it. That's it for the announcements. 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,320 Shout out to people who have been wanting to be part of a 32 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,480 community by signing up for the support group. 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,400 I make it as simple as possible. You have a support call, we 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,320 decompress, we talk about the things and then in that, that 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,600 also guarantees that you don't show up to the support call and 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,480 say things for or say things for the first time in a room full of 37 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,600 people that you, you know, maybe feel uncomfortable with. 38 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:22,520 There's a lot of reasons that I do it this way, but it's 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,640 important that we have a support call one-on-one before you come 40 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,840 into the group. And that's really all it is. 41 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,920 It's just a space for that discomfort to go because I know 42 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:34,640 it can be overwhelming to join a community, a group of people and 43 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:37,160 say some things for the first time that you might not have 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,800 been able to say before. So no one can be like, I just 45 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,880 want to be in the support group. We got to have a conversation 46 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:42,560 first. All right. 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,200 And with that said, today I'm going to be interviewing 48 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,480 somebody. We got somebody, we got a guest. 49 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,120 I put the call out and people have been responsive. 50 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,600 So I'm appreciative that people still want to be a part of us, a 51 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,280 part of this, and help us get to episode 400. 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,080 So I'm going to let you introduce yourself and then 53 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,000 we'll just start with how we connect it all. 54 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:13,160 Right, so I am a therapist and I am living with HSV 2. 55 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,680 Yeah, what else about you? You like dogs or cats? 56 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,520 Like, yeah, I know it's more to you than that. 57 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:30,600 So yeah, so I am an animal lover by especially dogs and yeah, I 58 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:37,400 love reading, exercising, but mostly, mostly love my job. 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Yeah, and what kind of therapist are you? 60 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,320 I specialize in dialectical behavior therapy. 61 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,800 OK DBT. DBT. 62 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,440 I always hear it and I'm like, wait a minute, I never actually 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:56,440 heard somebody say what it is. So I want to just start out with 64 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,400 the question of just you sharing how we connect it. 65 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,320 Yeah, so it was actually a funny story. 66 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:11,720 My friend was looking for a positive podcast just like 67 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:17,560 something with light hearted and she typed in something positive 68 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:24,800 into the search bar and she knew that you know I I live with 69 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:30,160 herpes so she she shared it with me. 70 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,120 And it's so funny to me that she was just looking for something 71 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,080 uplifting and it was like, I'm looking for something positive. 72 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:45,560 And then bam, you get this and, and, and I guess having this 73 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,960 sent to you, what did that do for you? 74 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:53,280 I can imagine that it probably invokes some initial emotion to. 75 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,800 Be honest. Not really. 76 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,320 Really. OK, so here's where that's 77 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,800 coming from. I think that a lot of people 78 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,640 fear like being found out for having an association with the, 79 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,840 an organization that, you know, talks about herpes, right? 80 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:17,160 Because people don't want the people that people don't want 81 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,480 other people to think that they have herpes. 82 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,360 And so, and I guess I need to also take into consideration 83 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,160 that you are a therapist yourself and that you already 84 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,480 told this person, but it, it feels like a form of like being 85 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,200 outed or reminded of your diagnosis. 86 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,280 And I guess that's where that's coming from for me. 87 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:41,800 Like maybe I'm just projecting onto someone who is is just kind 88 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,560 of chilling, minding their own business and then bam, this 89 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,480 herpes podcast pops up to them from a friend. 90 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:53,200 Yeah, I didn't. I think she felt more 91 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,880 uncomfortable than me in sharing it. 92 00:05:56,280 --> 00:06:01,680 Say more. She was very apologetic. 93 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,600 She's like, you know, I wasn't looking for anything. 94 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,000 I just, I just, you know, I happened to take this in and 95 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,120 this is what came up and I thought of you, but like, I'm 96 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:20,560 not, I'm not cuz she is also a social worker so she's not 97 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,280 trying to stigmatize me in any way either. 98 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,680 OK, OK. So let's talk a little bit about 99 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,520 being a therapist and your, I guess, early experiences with 100 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,440 your diagnosis. I imagine that because you have 101 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,120 the education and maybe you have tools and resources, it could 102 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,520 make it easier. But then at the same time, like 103 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,960 you're also human and maybe those things might not have been 104 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,640 as accessible to you in the moment of dealing with the early 105 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,880 emotions and everything that come with the diagnosis. 106 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,720 So it was. It was interesting. 107 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:11,280 I was, I, I started to have symptoms around Christmas and I 108 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:19,480 really, and because you know, I go away for Christmas, I was to 109 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,240 another state. I didn't have the time really to 110 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,760 go to the doctor. I was leaving the next day and 111 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,960 so I had to unfortunately go to an urgent care down in that 112 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:42,200 state and they misdiagnosed me. They said and said it was 113 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:43,800 nothing. You know, I was negative with 114 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,920 everything with blood work, you know, as, as you know, it 115 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,800 doesn't come up for I believe a few weeks to even months to 116 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:55,880 doesn't come up in your blood work. 117 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,560 So they, they kind of dismissed me. 118 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,520 They said like, oh, it's, it's nothing. 119 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:12,560 It's just, you know, it's just discomfort and but I knew 120 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:20,280 something was wrong. And so having that experience, I 121 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:29,480 already felt invalidated. And then and then I was also 122 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,840 going through, unfortunately my healthcare was changing my 123 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,480 health insurance. So I didn't have great health 124 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,720 insurance before because it was the end of, you know, December. 125 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:52,400 So I wasn't, I didn't have insurance that covered the 126 00:08:52,560 --> 00:09:01,800 doctor that I normally went to so and who I trusted they took 127 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,560 the other insurance, the one I started with after the new year. 128 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,440 However, because this happened mid-december, my symptoms 129 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,640 started then. I didn't want to wait that long 130 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,000 and I so right away I knew something was wrong. 131 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:29,440 Had a feeling it was herpes and and but eventually came back 132 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,800 from out of town. Went to a doctor and they 133 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:38,880 eventually they told me some misinformation about herpes, 134 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:45,040 that it couldn't be spread when it wasn't, when it wasn't, when 135 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:54,960 you weren't symptomatic and that they didn't really tell me 136 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:02,720 anything else about. So I didn't because I did so 137 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:08,600 much research with looking at the CDC website and all these 138 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,960 other things, I was very hesitant to believe them. 139 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:24,280 And then going on, I noticed about about two weeks later 140 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,440 after the initial symptoms, I noticed that I was, I was 141 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,000 actually laying in bed, you know, at night about to go to 142 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:38,560 sleep. And I noticed lower back pain 143 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,080 and actually my, my butt was becoming numb. 144 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,600 It was almost like I was, I've been sitting down too long and 145 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,720 like, you know, where your foot falls asleep, you have that 146 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,560 sensation of numbness. I had it there. 147 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:06,920 And since I have a history of an injury to my lower back, I 148 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,320 kinda, I dismissed it at first, but I was like, hmm, this isn't 149 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:16,760 how it normally feels. And so of course this is at 150 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:26,000 night, you know, maybe 9:10 PM. And so I'm Googling and you know 151 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:33,720 how it it is Googling at night. So you're not necessarily you're 152 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:39,840 looking at worst case scenario. And I came across something 153 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:46,040 called Ellsberg syndrome. It's a rare condition where the 154 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:52,120 nerves in your lumbosacral region, so like the bottom of 155 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:58,120 your spine, they're inflamed and it's most commonly associated 156 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:08,360 with HSV 2. And so understandably, I was 157 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:21,400 scared and I, I, I, you know, I finally went to sleep and woke 158 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,840 up the next day and I noticed some more symptoms. 159 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:34,040 The biggest one was being unable to feel the urge to urinate. 160 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:41,000 And as that continued it eventually it, I felt weakness 161 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,360 in my legs. I felt, and then I couldn't 162 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,920 necessarily feel the urge to defecate either. 163 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:59,800 And it got within, and this was in two to three days and it got 164 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,360 to the point where between sessions I was using the 165 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:09,760 bathroom between set every session just so I didn't 166 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,640 accidentally, you know, urinate on myself during that time. 167 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:26,520 And then so eventually after those three days I had, I went 168 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,040 to the hospital. I was like this is or no I 169 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:36,600 actually went to urgent care 1st and they said that it might be 170 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:42,560 cauda equina syndrome which is basically where it's a medical 171 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:47,000 emergency and it's basically where the nerves at the base of 172 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,760 the spine are compressed and usually by the spine itself, the 173 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:59,200 vertebra so or through injuries something like that. 174 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,400 And I am by no means a doctor, so if I get anything wrong 175 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:18,760 people can correct me and I so then they said that they said 176 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,160 you need to go to the hospital. So I went to the hospital and 177 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,160 waited quite a while, which I was a little nervous about 178 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:35,640 considering they said it was an emergency, told the doctor my 179 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,960 symptoms and immediately dismissed me. 180 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:48,440 So no, you can't have that. When I brought up the topic of 181 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Ellsberg syndrome, they dismissed me even more. 182 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,520 More so much so the resident dismissed me. 183 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:03,360 So much so that I actually only spoke and looked at the 184 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,080 attending because I was like, he is. 185 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:14,400 The resident is not hearing me and so they did an MRI as they 186 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:21,760 have to do with the tidal equina syndrome to rule out anything 187 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:28,320 structural and they did that. Didn't find anything. 188 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:40,280 So I waited about 6 hours, which hey, you know, hospitals, it's 189 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,280 crisis management. I get it. 190 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,480 If it's not a medical emergency, you're going to wait. 191 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:59,440 And I understand that, you know, it's not, it's not for, you 192 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:05,280 know, long term care and it, it shouldn't be. 193 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,560 And since it wasn't necessarily an emergency, I, I understand 194 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:17,360 the way. And the doctor didn't see me 195 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,400 after the initial assessment. The nurse, I actually had to 196 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:30,560 call over another doctor and ask them, Hey, you know, what came 197 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,080 of this? I, I don't necessarily, you 198 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,400 know, know the outcome of the MRI and at this point I'm 199 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,600 scared. I can't feel my legs as much. 200 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:48,720 I, I was, you know, and it, it was scary. 201 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:54,680 I didn't know where, you know, where it was going. 202 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:03,240 And they eventually, they told me that it may have something to 203 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,119 do with the herpes, but we don't really know. 204 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,520 So we're just going to send you home. 205 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:16,480 You can go to your gynecologist. And well, again, I understand 206 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:24,440 that, you know, hospitals are not for medical emergencies or 207 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:29,680 are for medical emergencies. It would have been nice to have 208 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,680 a more definite answer and especially, especially since I 209 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,320 was right that it was Ellsberg syndrome. 210 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,800 And so a few days later I went to the gynecologist, finally got 211 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:51,560 an appointment and they she heard me. 212 00:17:53,560 --> 00:18:01,520 She realized that I was dismissed at the hospital and 213 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,680 she even read some of the research articles from the 214 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,480 medical journals that I had read. 215 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:20,960 And she, you know, put me on a high dose of Valtrex and 216 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,520 eventually my symptoms, you know, abated. 217 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,480 And she, she even that was a Friday and she checked in with 218 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,840 me over the weekend, you know, giving me her personal cell 219 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,800 phone number and even called me and she's like, you can call me 220 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,720 at any time if you, you know, you may have to have a catheter 221 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:48,000 at some point. And we and if you need that, you 222 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,120 know, I'm here. And it was extremely validating. 223 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,480 And as of now, you know, I'm better after that high dose. 224 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:04,480 I'm now on a suppressive dose and just to, you know, make sure 225 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:10,360 that doesn't appear again. And then, yeah, so up. 226 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,560 And then since then I've been good. 227 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,160 So whenever you when you had your outbreak, that was when you 228 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:23,280 experienced the incontinence. So that was about two weeks 229 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,440 later. Oh, OK. 230 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,120 So it was just like the outbreak because herpes lives in the 231 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,120 nerves, expresses itself on the skin. 232 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:35,440 So in the nerves living there, maybe it's causing the 233 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,480 inflammation. And then you have that 234 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,280 neurological connection that's blocked essentially to where you 235 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,240 can't tell when you have to use the restroom. 236 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,200 And then you take Valtrex and maybe a couple of days go by and 237 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,040 then BAM, the inflammation resides and the outbreak goes 238 00:19:51,040 --> 00:20:00,960 away. Yes and they before the 1st the 239 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,840 last gynecologist appointment they actually didn't put me on 240 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,520 anything. So no, no one did. 241 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,960 Even the person that diagnosed me. 242 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:16,040 So you were just raw dog in this diagnosis, these symptoms? 243 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:17,760 Yes. OK. 244 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:29,200 And not really sure where to go, what to do and it's painful. 245 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,320 Yeah. Thank you for sharing your 246 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,240 experience. And I don't know if there was 247 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,480 any like justice that was served at all or did you talk to 248 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:48,320 anybody about that experience to get some type of consequences or 249 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,120 something? No. 250 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:02,320 Because ultimately I I could understand and that doesn't make 251 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,600 it right. You know, being in the field I 252 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,840 am, especially with DBT, you know there can be valid points 253 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,840 and it can still there can be a kernel of truth of validity in 254 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,920 one point and then the rest is invalid. 255 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,760 And I can understand where they were coming from. 256 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:32,440 It wasn't necessarily a medical emergency once I had the MRI and 257 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:40,800 they made a mistake. You're very patient and OK with 258 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,920 that despite the inconvenience that it caused for you. 259 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:50,680 And I wonder how much of that is like just grace for the medical 260 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,560 system or you being, you know, adjacent or kind of in in 261 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,200 proximity to it. I guess, like being so 262 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,240 empathetic and understanding despite, you know, what you're 263 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,400 having that could be considered one of the worst times of your 264 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,000 life to have the compassion that you have for these medical 265 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,120 professionals that misdiagnosed you, dismissed you, gave you 266 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,640 misinformation, right? Like how do you have that grace? 267 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:30,600 I guess it, it comes from, you know, the, the really the 268 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:36,680 principle that like, I truly believe in that like people 269 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:43,000 makes make mistakes and that doesn't mean that they're, 270 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,880 they're bad at their job. It doesn't mean that they're a 271 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,160 bad person. It doesn't mean that they're, 272 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,360 that they even did it intentionally. 273 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:04,560 And hey, sometimes people do invalidate intentionally, and I 274 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,280 don't think it was done intentionally. 275 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:11,080 Talk to me about this. The doctor told you. 276 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,800 You can't. You're not contagious When you 277 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,960 don't have symptoms, right? Yeah. 278 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,280 So the reason that I'm asking that is because I, I, I, it 279 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,240 shocks me that this is still going on, that the people who 280 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,320 are saying that you don't have to disclose these are credible 281 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,000 medical professionals. And a lot of us are looking for 282 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,040 any reason not to go through the process of experience and 283 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,840 rejection of having to tell one more person this. 284 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:44,520 And doctors are just making it so easy for us to be able to 285 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,000 say, Oh, well, doctor, so and so. 286 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,080 So I don't have to do that. Yeah. 287 00:23:50,720 --> 00:24:02,560 And, and unfortunately it's, it's a reality this the doctor 288 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:11,080 was, was misinformed and I, I did challenge him on it. 289 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,480 I said, well, in the, you know, the CDC website, it says that 290 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:25,120 there it, it can be spread without active symptoms and an 291 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:30,560 active outbreak. And he didn't. 292 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,160 He didn't believe that. How did he express not believing 293 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,000 that? Did he just say oh that's not 294 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,160 true, get out? Like what was his way of 295 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:45,120 dismissing? It it was more like, Oh no, you, 296 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,040 you, you have nothing to worry about. 297 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,680 And it was. It was done in a way that was 298 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,600 supposed to be comforting and at the same time invalidating, 299 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,520 especially given that I knew that wasn't true. 300 00:25:09,740 --> 00:25:10,780 Oh, all right. I thought you were about to say 301 00:25:10,780 --> 00:25:12,100 something else. I looked at you and I was like, 302 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:18,180 hold on. And you, despite having that 303 00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:25,340 approval from a doctor, you went with your own integrity and 304 00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:28,780 trusting yourself and be like, I don't think that that's really 305 00:25:28,780 --> 00:25:35,640 the case. Like I'm wanting to ask you what 306 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,280 personality trait? What about you? 307 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,400 What called you to go against the grain of what? 308 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,440 Again, most people are looking for an excuse, especially like 309 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,200 if they're newly diagnosed. I know the doctor said that, 310 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,880 that, that, but you had more information and you knew, like, 311 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,760 I want to say like, you know better, but but you challenged 312 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,160 the information that you received. 313 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,880 And when you saw it, you knew to do something with it. 314 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,000 What? I Yeah. 315 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,280 I want to know what that is like. 316 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,320 What is it bravery? Is it courage? 317 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,600 Is it like it is integrity? But what else could it be? 318 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,080 I don't, I don't think it's anything you know, like. 319 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:22,760 You can say that like, I don't think it's anything special, 320 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,320 but. I don't think it's anything 321 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,760 special. I think it's it's knowing what 322 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,040 the right thing is. Thank you for saying that. 323 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,840 Now here's what I wanted to get out of like asking the question 324 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,000 to get you to say something along those lines is that I 325 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,840 think people forget. We forget who we are outside of 326 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,360 our diagnosis when we get that diagnosis. 327 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:51,160 And it's so easy to become overly identified with a person 328 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,920 who has herpes and like assuming that people aren't going to want 329 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,360 to be with me. So if people aren't going to 330 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:02,360 want to be with me, then I need to be away from people or, well, 331 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,200 I'm not going to tell anybody about this. 332 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,360 Like there's so many different thought patterns that can come 333 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:08,440 from this. And people think that they need 334 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,080 to be brave to talk about this. They think that they need to 335 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,120 have the courage, they need to be motivated. 336 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,080 They think that there just needs to be some type of I, I don't, I 337 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,120 don't know the word, but they think that they need some type 338 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,200 of juice for if you've seen space jam micro secret stuff, 339 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,880 which was just water and how everybody just showed up and, 340 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,720 and performed, you know, like we don't need those things. 341 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,320 We know who we are and having herpes. 342 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,920 We are who we are. We just now have this diagnosis 343 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,680 and I think people really just kind of shy away from 344 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,440 remembering who they were outside of their diagnosis and. 345 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,040 I I could understand that, you know why people may, you know, 346 00:27:53,040 --> 00:28:00,440 it is, it is something you don't think about necessarily before 347 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,720 you're diagnosed and or something you think about that's 348 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,480 like like that can't happen to me almost. 349 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:17,520 And hey, some people may think of that, who knows, But it's 350 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:24,000 also like, you know, part of part of my work is treating 351 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,880 people that have very high risk behaviors and severe depression. 352 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:43,600 And they, they, my clients, you know, they, they experience such 353 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,920 terrible things. And one of the things, one of 354 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:56,000 the principles, what we call assumptions in DBT is you may 355 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,320 not have caused all your problems and you have to solve 356 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,920 them anyway. That doesn't feel fair. 357 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,640 Why do we have to solve problems that we didn't cause? 358 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:14,480 What? And I, I kind of think of that 359 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:20,520 like because sometimes, you know, there are things 360 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:27,920 surrounded us and we have to find, you know, doing things. 361 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:37,120 We have to do it anyway, you know, despite our fear, despite 362 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,360 the feelings of rejection that we may get, that we may 363 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:55,320 experience, and it's still, if that's if integrity is an 364 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,200 important value of ours, we have to, we have to go with that. 365 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,960 Yeah. Is there anything from a therapy 366 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,120 perspective? Right. 367 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,400 Like, I understand that you do have this diagnosis yourself, 368 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,520 but coming from a DPADBT lens, can you apply that to a herpes 369 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,560 diagnosis? Like what could a person with 370 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,400 herpes get out of working with the DBT Dialectic diet? 371 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,160 What? What is it? 372 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,720 Oh, I was right. Dialectic behavioral therapist. 373 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:32,520 Well. I don't think you know everyone. 374 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,000 I think I think everyone can benefit from the skills. 375 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,000 They don't necessarily need a DBT therapist. 376 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,800 However, you know, coming from a dialectical standpoint, which 377 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,440 dialectics is 2 seemingly opposing things that are true at 378 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:57,160 the same time. And when coming from that lens, 379 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,800 I can understand that this is there's a kernel of truth. 380 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:14,480 I do have this diagnosis. It does affect me and at the 381 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:23,760 same time it doesn't define me. And you know, it also like it. 382 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:30,680 The valid thing is, yes, I may be rejected by multiple people 383 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,360 for having us, and that doesn't mean I shouldn't keep trying. 384 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,200 I noticed something and maybe this is just an observation, but 385 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,640 I know I do this thing where it is so easy for me to talk about, 386 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,200 right? Like herpes from the perspective 387 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,120 of I run this nonprofit, this is what I do. 388 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,920 I talk to people herpes all the time, right? 389 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,480 Whereas, you know, talking about my own experience, at least 390 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,680 early on, like I've been positive for 12 years to my 391 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,800 knowledge. And over the years, I don't 392 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,680 think that I ever really talked about my own experience. 393 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,440 And so as I was sitting here like watching you, like I, I 394 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,960 noticed earlier when you were just talking about your own 395 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,480 experience and that revisiting that, that it had like a slower 396 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,000 pace to it. And I don't know if you were 397 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,440 experiencing any of the like triggering emotions of being in 398 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,560 that moment again. But I know I noticed like when I 399 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,360 was asking about how could a personal herpes benefit from 400 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,800 DVT, Like it, it picked up a little bit. 401 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,720 Was there, was there a shift in there for you? 402 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:42,400 Can you name that? Not so much an emotional shift, 403 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,920 more of a, well, an emotional shift as in I'm nervous right 404 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,720 now. Yeah, talking about it. 405 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,840 Talking about your experience or talking about DBT? 406 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,200 No, no, you're right. Yeah, talking about my 407 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:07,080 experience because also given that I'm a therapist, it's there 408 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,200 is still Sigma and to. Be honest, I'm. 409 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,200 A little nervous that some clients may find me. 410 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,400 And they find this podcast. Can we just talk about all 411 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160 right, so, so many people. I I cannot believe my mom used 412 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,400 to call me arrogant. I cannot believe how arrogant it 413 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,480 is that y'all they got a 400 whatever podcast someone is 414 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,160 going to that you know, in your bubble is going to recognize 415 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,960 your voice with no name, no context except for maybe a 416 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,080 little bit of what you do right. And yeah, I, I guess it is 417 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,800 possible. But like, if you have a client 418 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,080 that does have herpes, that entry point of, hey, I was on 419 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,880 this podcast. I have herpes myself, you know, 420 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,040 check this out. That feels different than, you 421 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,440 know, if you have a client who tells you that they have herpes 422 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,640 and you like don't say anything and then they eventually find 423 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,720 this podcast and they're like, why the hell didn't you tell me 424 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,680 you were on this podcast? Because also there's the the 425 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,320 point of them having to find your episode among all these 426 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,320 episodes at this point. So it's, it's a lot that goes 427 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,600 into there, but I hear it often and people won't do an interview 428 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,080 because they think that someone they know might find this. 429 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,120 And it's the reality is the only people who I think listen to 430 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,719 this are people who have herpes or who are going to date someone 431 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,080 who has herpes. And this was recommended to them 432 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,679 for that reason. So yeah, I, I, I think it's 433 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,920 important that I just name that. But I, I caught the, the shift 434 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,199 like I, I felt a shift and just your demeanor in talking about 435 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:49,840 this from an objective place and it made it reminded me of myself 436 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,440 whenever I talk about my personal experience because I I 437 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,360 talked about it for the first time. 438 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,120 I think like on a podcast, it's just titled my story. 439 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,120 I forget which episode it is, but I noticed for myself like 440 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,440 speaking slowly, trying to not say anybody's name or not trying 441 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,760 to draw too much direction to that time in my life. 442 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,640 And the reality is like that's my experience and that's it. 443 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,920 Like I'm just sharing what my experience was and I noticed how 444 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:27,280 I speak from a place of protectiveness whenever if if 445 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,240 someone were to say something bad about people with herpes or 446 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,720 this organization even, right? Like I don't give a fuck what 447 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:37,200 you say about me, I don't care. But this space is something that 448 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,600 I'm very protective of and I caught a whiff of that. 449 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,600 Maybe not the protectiveness necessarily, but a shift in 450 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,480 comfort and familiarity when you got to talk about DVT therapy 451 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,480 and how someone could benefit from it if they are struggling 452 00:35:53,480 --> 00:36:02,400 with their diagnosis. Most definitely really hit the 453 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,840 nail on the head. You know it's and you're right 454 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,760 and about like who that who you know. 455 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,680 It would be a miracle if one client of mine found this 456 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:23,520 episode and then recognized my voice and then found my name. 457 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,480 What are they going to do or just ask you about it? 458 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,440 Like like that's cool that you were on that podcast. 459 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,720 Like now I want to work with you even more that that's I guess 460 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,080 maybe I'm just like a hopeless career romantic or something 461 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,440 where we're just when we are open about things, we're opening 462 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,480 up and allowing for connections to come in. 463 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,480 Because there was a young man that I had on my podcast who one 464 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,760 of the first men, one of the only men. 465 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,240 There's a few men who've been open about the herpes status. 466 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,720 Only black man. No, there's one other that I can 467 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,080 remember. He let me use like the video and 468 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,880 the we use it for like social media posts. 469 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,920 And his now girlfriend found him. 470 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,560 She thought that it was brave that he talked openly about his 471 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,720 diagnosis. She slid his DM. 472 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,760 She was bold. And this was actually the 473 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,840 podcast episode right before this when I'm going to release 474 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,280 this one this upcoming week. But I just thought that that was 475 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:32,000 so cool that she boldly slayed Miss DMS. She was looking for a 476 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,000 friend and then that evolved into a relationship. 477 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,840 So there's a lot of things that can happen. 478 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,040 And I think that we don't necessarily look at this 479 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,800 diagnosis as something that can bring about a positive outcome, 480 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,440 but we can. It can y'all, It can. 481 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:50,240 And even now, like I'm, I'm watching you smile like I, I 482 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:54,880 called you out in a way and gave it a little bit of my, my own 483 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,760 experience too. And just that's something that I 484 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,400 noticed on the podcast often, like people, you know, kind of 485 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,480 come out of this shell a little bit. 486 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,600 And yeah, I appreciate you for again, revisiting that and 487 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,640 explaining a little bit about DBT too, because I, I, this is 488 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,360 regardless of how much we talk about herpes and sexual health, 489 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,440 there is a lot that goes into the mental health, the emotional 490 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,520 Wellness, the identity pieces as well. 491 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:28,200 And I want to help people access resources that can be useful to 492 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,240 them. So people might reach out and be 493 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,520 like, hey, I want to work with that person, right? 494 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,400 And like, I'll tell y'all like you, you got a lot more like I 495 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,560 think that you are maintaining A professionalism, a level of 496 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,680 professionalism. I know we talked about maybe not 497 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,720 talking about your personal story with how you got it. 498 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,680 And I'm I'm 100% like in support of not doing that, but I want to 499 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,280 check in with you now. Like does it feel like since you 500 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,280 opened up a little bit more, do you want to share that 501 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,440 experience? And if if not, like, please 502 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,920 share whatever else it is that you would like to share with the 503 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:12,720 audience before we transition. Probably not. 504 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,320 That's OK, because yeah. We could talk about that later 505 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,160 if you want to. Yeah, yeah, I'll go by and get 506 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,840 off. But something I did want to say 507 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:33,600 with your observation is, you know, you're definitely right 508 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:40,560 and I definitely was. I'm in a helping profession and 509 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,720 I'm used to being the helper, not necessarily the client. 510 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:53,880 And it's it's sometimes difficult to have that switch. 511 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,520 I'm learning that. I've been so one of the hardest 512 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,440 things for me to do, I, I, I've created an identity around 513 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,400 making something positive for positive people free and 514 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,800 accessible to everybody. And I would host support groups. 515 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,040 I'd be like, hey, we're having a support group to say this time 516 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,120 and be consistent with it or yoga classes on Tuesdays. 517 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:24,040 Like I I tried to do these consistent things for free and 518 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,000 it was very rare more people would register and not show up 519 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,920 than people who didn't register and happen to show up. 520 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,040 And that was so challenging for me to navigate because it's 521 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,960 like, damn, why wouldn't people want to come to this amazing 522 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,600 free thing? And I value it tremendously. 523 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,120 And I think that it should be something that is free and 524 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,760 available and accessible to everyone, especially if I'm not 525 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,560 like, killing myself to make it happen. 526 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,160 Over the last couple of months, what I've done is I've started 527 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,760 to even support 'cause right, people will sign up for the 528 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,480 support call and it's the people who don't donate that don't show 529 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,520 up for the support calls. And I was just like, wow, why 530 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,760 would you do that? So now I've made the support 531 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,760 calls, like you have to make a donation, there's a recommended 532 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,520 amount, and if you want to be in the support group, same thing. 533 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,840 And I've had the most people attending a support group, I've 534 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,560 had the most support calls over the last two months, month and a 535 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,360 half, two months than I ever have. 536 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,160 And this has been so uncomfortable because I've had 537 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:33,800 to shed the identity of being a giver so freely and excessively 538 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,720 that now like I, I feel like I am maybe having more of an 539 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:42,080 impact and having to lean into you mentioned the truths, right? 540 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,680 Like, I think that you can't charge people for things and be 541 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,120 a good person, right? You can charge people for things 542 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,160 and be a good person. So as I'm thinking about what 543 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,840 you said about the, the multiple truths holding up. 544 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:59,480 And so, yeah, it's been a real challenge for me, but it's also 545 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,400 been very rewarding because I do feel like the impact has been 546 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,840 more valuable because I recognize, like, people are much 547 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,720 more attentive. People read the instructions of 548 00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:12,960 the process, and they want to make the most out of these calls 549 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,400 and want to get the most out of our time together. 550 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,960 And I think that, yeah, this having to shed that identity was 551 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,720 a difficult thing for me because my ego was attached to being the 552 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:28,560 hero or helping, helping every everyone and saving everyone. 553 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,600 So I resonate when you talk about being in that giver role 554 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,240 and then having to be in another space, a different identity, 555 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:40,560 like with the diagnosis maybe feeling like, damn, now I need 556 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,760 support. Why the fuck do I need support? 557 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,720 Like, I'm the supporter. I can't be out here needing 558 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:52,280 support. Yeah, in in a nutshell, Yeah. 559 00:42:52,680 --> 00:43:00,440 And I also know, you know, I'm, I know I need to take my own 560 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,600 advice as well that like. Don't call me out. 561 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,400 Don't know. Don't do that. 562 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:07,840 I'm just kidding. I just. 563 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,280 That, you know, everyone needs help once in a while. 564 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,160 There's no shame in asking for help. 565 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,480 And I, I teach my clients to, to ask for help effectively. 566 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,960 You know I should do the same. And I guess elastic, that's a 567 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,920 really good point. Like last thing that I want to 568 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,680 leave us with is like, what are some of the ways or tools that 569 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,480 you use in order to teach people to ask for help? 570 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,520 Because we we do need it. Herpes are not like we need each 571 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,920 other. And that is a very difficult 572 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,240 thing. Like we think about rejection 573 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,160 being hard, as in we ask for something and we're told no in 574 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,520 the sense of our sex and sex lives. 575 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,760 But when we need help, people are so willing to support us, 576 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,520 especially friends, especially people who've proven to be there 577 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,400 and consistent in our lives, but we might not take it. 578 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,640 What? What advice or guidance do you 579 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,800 have for that and asking for help? 580 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,720 Well, first, I think it's, it's knowing what you need. 581 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,040 What are you asking for help with? 582 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:25,560 You know, what are your goals and asking for help? 583 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,640 What do you, what do you need? What do you want? 584 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:39,440 And then also there's the are you asking the a person that can 585 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:48,240 give you what you need And you know, you can't ask, you know, a 586 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:52,760 friend necessarily for medical advice, unless maybe they're a 587 00:44:52,760 --> 00:45:00,760 doctor or in the medical profession And you, you may not 588 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,680 get the best information asking a friend. 589 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,880 Same thing you need to see, is this person capable of giving me 590 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:15,000 what I need and am I? And when I ask, can I do it in 591 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:21,720 an effective way where it's where I'm fully explaining what 592 00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:27,080 I need and the expectations and am I comfortable with getting a 593 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,200 no? Because sometimes we do, we do 594 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,320 get no. And it's not because we're a bad 595 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,840 person. It's not because you know, you 596 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,440 know, necessarily because of this diagnosis, it there may be 597 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,280 something else going on in this person's life that we know 598 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,160 nothing about. Yeah. 599 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,040 And last thing before we transition out of here is 600 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,640 identifying people who are safe to ask for help. 601 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,760 I I've been saying this thing lately. 602 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,920 I don't necessarily believe in safe spaces. 603 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:10,440 I believe in intentional spaces. And I'm working to identify what 604 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,720 people can consider to be a safe person. 605 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,680 And I'm looking at the nervous system. 606 00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:23,120 I'm also looking at consistency and how people show up 607 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:28,120 consistently in a person's life. Yeah. 608 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,320 I I, I don't know, like can you help me with articulating what a 609 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,560 safe person can look like to someone? 610 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,640 I think, yeah, noticing that they're consistent, that they're 611 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:51,080 reliable, that they are, you know, they they may not 612 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,560 completely understand, but they're willing, they're willing 613 00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,360 to ask for clarification if they don't completely understand. 614 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:05,880 OK, help me understand rather than I don't understand. 615 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,760 So it must not be. It must not be, you know, valid. 616 00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:18,160 So gratitude and curiosity, oh man. 617 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,400 So this is a good formula for a lot of things because I even 618 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:26,160 talk about how when we deliver, when we tell someone about our 619 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,520 diagnosis, to meet, to be met with gratitude and curiosity is 620 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,960 the best thing you can be met with other than me too, right? 621 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,160 But then even me too can turn into, oh, but I experienced it 622 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,960 this way. And then like just a complete 623 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,200 overshadowing of your experience. 624 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,400 So, yeah, I, I think that that is a very, this is a test. 625 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,560 This is a really good test for people. 626 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,400 If we share with them our diagnosis, we're like, hey, I'm 627 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,080 dealing with this. This is what I'm going through 628 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,120 like, man. And for somebody to, there's a 629 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,360 fine line between curiosity and being nosy. 630 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,440 Now, a nosy person is probably going to be like, who'd you get 631 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,320 it from, right? But a person who's curious is 632 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,320 going to ask, how are you? They're going to be curious in 633 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,160 you and what what that experience has been like for you 634 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,160 and how they can show up and support you, right, making it 635 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,600 and keeping it about you and your experience. 636 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:23,840 So I thank you, thank you for sharing presents with me and I 637 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,680 appreciate you giving us the experience that you had and also 638 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:33,760 teaching us about Ellsberg syndrome, ELSBERG syndrome. 639 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,560 And for those who might have missed it, it's a neurological 640 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,440 disorder characterized by symptoms like urinary retention, 641 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,440 lower limb weakness, and sensory issues caused by inflammation of 642 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,440 the lumbosacral spinal cord and nerve roots, which I think is 643 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,160 almost exactly what you said. Typically called by HSV 2, but 644 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:57,200 also West Nile virus, CMV, cytomegalovirus, VZV and EBV and 645 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,280 acyclovir, valtrex, valcyclovir, these things treated. 646 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,440 So I mentioned. Oh, well, yeah, the diagnosis is 647 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:09,720 really just to take the medication like acyclovir, which 648 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:12,840 is beneficial even if the specific viral cause is not 649 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,560 definitely identified. So, yeah. 650 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,400 Thank you. Is there anything else that you 651 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,440 want to leave the audience with before I let you go? 652 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,680 No, I think that's it. Amazing. 653 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,160 All right, well, if you can stay on just for a second, so I can 654 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:28,760 check in with you. I'm going to go ahead and close 655 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,400 this out. That concludes this episode is 656 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,000 something positive for positive people. 657 00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:36,280 Please like rate review, share, subscribe to this podcast. 658 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,160 And if you've been, if you've been on the fence about a 659 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,040 support group or one-on-one support call, just sign up for 660 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,880 one-on-one support call. Like I, I don't advertise this, 661 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,200 but like you don't have to donate if you're signed up, like 662 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,920 I'll meet with you. But yeah, if you're curious 663 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,600 about additional resources and if you want to be part of the 664 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,720 support groups, now those do require a donation, but in order 665 00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:01,320 to get into those, you have to sign up for one-on-one support 666 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,920 call with me. I have to protect that space so 667 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:11,280 that that's all there is to it. You can go to spfpp.org/herpes 668 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,040 Dash support dash group, I think. 669 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,400 But if you go to the page, just Scroll down, you'll see the 670 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,960 options for you to be able to click on. 671 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:22,560 All right, from December 12th in person event in Brooklyn. 672 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,840 Hit me up about that. And yeah, just if there's 673 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,400 anything you need, please don't hesitate to reach out again. 674 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:36,240 I'm Courtney Brain and till next time, stay present.