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Welcome to Something Positive 
for Positive People. 

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I'm Courtney Brain. 
Something Positive for Positive 

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People is a 501C3 nonprofit 
organization that serves as the 

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go to hub of sexual Health 
Communication resources 

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specifically for people 
navigating herpes stigma. 

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In 2017, this organization 
actually began as a podcast that

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interviewed people who were more
so struggling with suicidation 

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because of their herpes 
diagnosis. 

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And that evolved into just 
talking to people about their 

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experience. 
Navigating herpes statement to 

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give people who might be 
struggling a little bit of a 

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safe road map to where they can 
just TuneIn, listen to podcasts,

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episodes, take what they need, 
and then be able to go on and 

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apply in their daytoday lives. 
As a nonprofit, one of the 

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things that we do here is 
advocate for the integration of 

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these lived experiences, which 
essentially highlight the 

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communication aspects of talking
about sexual health and 

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relationship intentions and 
expectations into sex education 

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resources, so that we are able 
to further minimize the 

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potentiality of new sexually 
transmitted infections being 

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passed on. 
Today I am here with Laura of 0 

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Proof Nation and I forget how 
long ago we met, but I remember 

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that you came to one of the I 
don't know if it was a therapy 

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group, one of the group therapy 
herpes things, or if it was just

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a support group in general, or 
what do you want. 

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You want me to pitch in and 
chime in? 

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Yeah, Hello. 
Yeah. 

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Hi Courtney. 
I think it was this sort of 

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interactive webinar type thing 
about being social with other 

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people who had an HSV diagnosis.
It was over zoom, it was maybe 

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it was a support type group, but
it wasn't therapy. 

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It was definitely a support 
aspect and I think that was 

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sometime early last year, maybe,
Oh, it was last year. 

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I feel like it was so much 
longer ago than that because. 

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Well, this is still pandemic 
time. 

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So it's like what is time? 
I think it was early last year 

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or maybe late 2021. 
I don't remember. 

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I can see that. 
I I think it might have been 

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2021. 
OK, OK. 

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But yeah, I recall early on 
seeing you talk a lot about like

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sobriety and not drinking. 
And that was something that I 

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think that you kind of plant 
seeds in people's heads when you

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just kind of live in your own 
way and you're expressive and 

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you put that out there. 
But one of the things I wanted 

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to tell you was in July, I 
decided to take a month off from

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drinking. 
And during that month of not 

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drinking, I also didn't 
masturbate. 

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This was interesting. 
So I don't know which one of 

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these had like more of an 
influence, but I was able to 

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write the first draft of a book 
for something positive, for 

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positive people. 
I was also able to what else did

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I do during that month? 
I got done and I was like, oh, 

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this is what I can do. 
Not that I drank a lot, but it 

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was something that I had more 
energy for not being hung over. 

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And also the discipline that 
came with saying no to, wanting 

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to go out and just drink or go 
to a friend's house and just 

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drink and talk. 
Because one of the things that 

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in my experience, I've learned 
about alcohol is that I have 

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historically used alcohol to 
make myself more present. 

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But the reality is that's made 
me less present. 

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And after having some 
experiences with not drinking 

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alcohol and being in an 
environment where maybe other 

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people are drinking, I recognize
just how present I am and how 

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uncomfortable it can be to be 
around all of these people 

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making an attempt to be present 
through alcohol, which offers 

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sort of this illusion of, I 
guess, connectedness, you know, 

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and everyone's like, oh, hey, if
we're all drinking, we're more 

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connected. 
Whereas it's kind of like a 

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disconnection from being 
present. 

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Because when you are present and
you kind of feel everything 

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happening around you, it can be 
a little bit intense. 

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So the thing that I wanted to 
say was, all right, July, I 

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decided not to drink. 
And then I think I had, I went 

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to karaoke and they had these 
little juices things there. 

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And I was like, ooh, that looks 
good. 

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I want that. 
And then I learned that there 

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was alcohol. 
And then I was like, oh, Dang, 

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that messed up my sobriety. 
But Oh well, we're here now. 

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And like, I didn't get drunk. 
I don't even think I got tipsy, 

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to be honest. 
But there was that time and then

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another time where I had a 
Margarita and I was like, yeah, 

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this don't do it for me anymore 
because I don't see the alcohol.

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I see the dollar amount that's 
being spent now. 

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And I'm like, you know what, $10
to try and be present when I 

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know that. 
Not like me. 

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Just not drinking makes me more 
present. 

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I don't think it's worth it 
anymore. 

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So I want to say that seeing you
live out loud in that way, even 

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if I just see a post every now 
and then or something like that,

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was something that I think 
contributed to my decision to 

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explore that. 
And I mean to this day, I I 

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don't have a desire to drink. 
I'll go out places and I'll 

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just, you know, not drink. 
And it's as simple as that. 

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The most uncomfortable part of 
it is when I want to go to a bar

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and it's like this bartender to 
ask me what I want and I'm about

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to order something that's non 
alcoholic, how are they going to

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view me? 
Are they going to think I'm 

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cheating, that I'm not going to 
tip? 

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And can I stay up here at the 
bar and hang out like I would if

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I were drinking right? 
It's another, it's another layer

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of stigma. 
We've we've gone through enough,

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right? 
Yeah, it's another layer and 

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also another sort of side point 
is that you mentioned that. 

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The cost of alcoholic beverages,
well, not out. 

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Cost a lot too these days, and 
that's another story for another

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time. 
But wow, like you wrote the 

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first draft of a book just by 
not drinking for a month. 

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I'm so impressed. 
Congratulations. 

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That is insane. 
Thank you. 

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And it's it's for something 
positive, for positive people, 

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essentially condensing the 
podcast itself from 300 whatever

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episodes at the time of its 
release down into a book, just 

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kind of sharing my face because 
people ask me all the time, 

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well, how did you deal with it? 
What happened to you? 

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And I'm like, it's not fair for 
me to ask you to go and listen 

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to the podcast because that 
story's, like, sprinkled in 

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there in bits and pieces. 
So instead, I'll be able to ask,

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oh, did you purchase the book or
something like that? 

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So yeah, it's, it's nice. 
And I had a lot of contributions

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from some of my board members 
about different parts of it. 

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And I've I've had a lot more 
clarity, of course, but general 

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creativity overall and being 
able to more clearly see further

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out. 
Like I I've always been the kind

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of person who I look right down,
take one step in front of me, 

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but I'm able to see like a few 
more steps out in front of me 

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just from this clarity, I would 
say. 

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And in addition to that, I don't
know how much, I do know how 

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much alcohol had to do with 
this. 

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So I've been very mindful of, 
like my health lately and in 

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attempting to, I have had high 
blood pressure for like 12 

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years, probably since I was 
born, to be completely honest. 

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But I received the warning of, 
hey, we're going to have to get 

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you on medication for like the 
last 10 years. 

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I've just been blowing it off 
and I've just not like added 

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salt to my food. 
But instead of like, what I've 

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learned is that it's not just 
adding salt to your food. 

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It's like the sodium that's in a
lot of the foods that I've 

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eaten. 
And so when I would drink, I 

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would lose any and all sense of 
control. 

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I could eat a whole pizza, 12 
chicken wings, drench it in 

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ranch and eat toasted Ravio. 
I would just, I remember, you 

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know, these things, I can eat a 
lot, but it doesn't mean I have 

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to eat a lot. 
So I've been able to incorporate

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some of that presence and 
mindfulness into my eating 

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habits. 
And like in that process, while 

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my goal wasn't necessarily to 
lose weight, it's just been to 

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lower my blood pressure. 
I have lost a significant amount

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of weight and I credit that too 
to not drinking. 

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You were crushing it. 
Yeah. 

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This was what I wanted to talk 
to you about. 

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Like I wanted to just save it 
for the podcast and get that 

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real response from you. 
But no, I want to thank you. 

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Between you and there's someone 
I follow on Instagram. 

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In Australia, she recently 
started posting about her own 

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journey with sobriety, and I'm 
I'm just seeing it a few 

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different places. 
There's also the sober sex per I

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want to say. 
Yeah, Tony. 

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Tony. 
Yeah, that's. 

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Good. 
She's a good friend of mine. 

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She just wrote a book called Dry
Humping. 

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Oh, that's fine, yeah. 
But yeah. 

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It's great. 
Yeah. 

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Like, seeing these influences 
has really been something that's

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helped me in my personal life. 
So I wanted to bring you on here

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and say thank you for that and 
thank you. 

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Yeah, I appreciate you putting 
yourself out there. 

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That means so much to me. 
And you caught me on a day where

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I was kind of just feeling major
like the imposter syndrome and 

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just kind of general being down 
about a lot. 

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So that means a lot to me. 
Don't take away all of your 

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credit though, like you did the 
work and. 

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And I can't believe you've 
written the first chapter of a 

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book. 
I'm just like wow, that inspires

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me because you you know, I I I 
don't know if anyone out there 

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listening is is is even familiar
with me and and if not that's 

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totally cool. 
So it gives you an intro to who 

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I am. 
But I've been alcohol free, 

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sober booze free for 16 years 
and so that's the better part of

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my adult life. 
I I got sober when I was 24 and.

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And so I've I've spent most of 
my 20s, all of my 30s, and now 

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into my first year of my 40s 
without without drinking 

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alcohol. 
And and so, you know, maybe in 

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the beginning I had some, like, 
spurts of clarity where I was 

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like, wow, it's nice to not have
a hangover. 

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I still love not having 
hangovers, by the way. 

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It's one of the best perks of. 
Not drinking alcohol. 

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To this day, it's still one of 
my favorite things. 

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But now I'm just, you know, 
living life. 

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So I've got to, I've got to find
that discipline again to start 

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writing, you know, the first 
draft of my book. 

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Thank you, Courtney. 
Yeah, for sure. 

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Amazing 24 seems like a pretty 
young age to decide to just stop

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drinking. 
Especially, you know, most 

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people are starting to make 
money and being able to go out 

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and socialize with friends, 
going to the bars, clubs, 

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etcetera. 
What made you decide to give up 

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drinking at age 20? 
Four. 

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Well, it wasn't one of these. 
Like, I'm sober curious. 

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I want to be mindful with my 
consumption. 

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You know, there there wasn't any
kind of language then about 

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sober curiosity and about trying
out a month without drinking 

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like a dry January or sober 
October or dry July. 

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It was you're either an 
alcoholic or you're normal and 

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that. 
That was the language that I was

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coming into. 
That was the discourse, and that

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was the stigma against people 
who didn't drink alcohol. 

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I didn't have a a sort of a 
choice in the way like, Oh well,

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I guess I'm going to quit 
drinking. 

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I was well, I put myself, 
frankly, in a lot of really 

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dangerous situations and had a 
lot of negative consequences. 

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I only drank for six years. 
Starting from age 18 until 24. 

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And there's a saying that the 
lot of people who who sort of 

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have this history with with 
drinking alcohol and substance 

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use disorder, they say, you 
know, first it was fun, then it 

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was fun with problems, and then 
it was just problems. 

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And so that was my trajectory in
the course of six years. 

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By the end, by the last year and
a half, I was hospitalized for 

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alcohol poisoning twice. 
And and and then on top of 

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countless negative sexual 
situations, dangerous, you know,

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just putting myself in vehicles 
with people who were drinking so

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many things that I vaguely 
remember. 

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And then, of course, there's a 
lot of stuff that I don't 

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remember. 
And and so after my second 

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hospitalization for alcohol 
poisoning, I really felt scared.

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Something was different. 
Like I said, I've been, I've 

226
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:48,750
been, you know, rushing in an 
ambulance to the ER once before 

227
00:12:48,750 --> 00:12:54,510
for alcohol, and it scared me. 
But something inside internally,

228
00:12:54,510 --> 00:12:57,190
it just hadn't clicked yet. 
And so I, you know, I kept 

229
00:12:57,190 --> 00:13:00,790
drinking after that, not the day
after, maybe not even the month 

230
00:13:00,790 --> 00:13:02,790
after, But you, I didn't have a 
plan. 

231
00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:06,190
I didn't have any tools in my 
tool belt and I was too young. 

232
00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:10,770
I was 22 at that time, so. 
The second time, like I said, 

233
00:13:10,770 --> 00:13:14,010
something internally clicked. 
I don't know what it was. 

234
00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:16,930
I didn't think in terms of 
forever because that sounded way

235
00:13:16,930 --> 00:13:21,050
too scary and all I all I knew 
was that I needed professional 

236
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:25,290
help and and I didn't know what 
that was going to look like or 

237
00:13:25,290 --> 00:13:27,290
what my life would would end up 
looking like. 

238
00:13:27,290 --> 00:13:31,210
But I know that once I started 
this outpatient intensive 

239
00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:35,530
outpatient program, I just 
really liked not having 

240
00:13:35,530 --> 00:13:37,920
hangovers. 
And that was, that was the 

241
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,800
biggest thing that just kept me 
going. 

242
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,080
And of course over time, my 
relationships with family and 

243
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,040
friends and some friends I had 
to cut out because they were 

244
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,760
toxic. 
But maybe they would think of me

245
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,440
as toxic, you know, you know, if
the shoe fits it, it depends. 

246
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,800
But all all throughout, you 
know, I just, again, I never 

247
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,160
thought in terms of forever. 
I just knew that I I was 

248
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:05,190
starting to feel better. 
And again, there weren't any non

249
00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:09,790
alcoholic options back then 
other than soda or milk. 

250
00:14:09,790 --> 00:14:12,950
So I was like this is I'm like, 
I'm not in an episode of The 

251
00:14:12,950 --> 00:14:14,830
Brady Bunch, like I want 
something else. 

252
00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:17,830
But you know in the first year I
wasn't looking for for non 

253
00:14:17,830 --> 00:14:20,150
alcoholic options. 
I just needed to stay sober. 

254
00:14:20,190 --> 00:14:24,150
For me, that was what it was and
and as I got more comfortable 

255
00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:27,390
not drinking, I was navigating 
being a. 

256
00:14:28,590 --> 00:14:32,270
Mid 20 something without alcohol
in sort of the quote UN quote 

257
00:14:32,270 --> 00:14:36,430
prime of my young adult life. 
You know, it was prime yuppie 

258
00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:40,790
territory, going out to happy 
hour, going to weddings, being 

259
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:43,150
in weddings, like all of the 
things. 

260
00:14:43,150 --> 00:14:47,270
And you know, I just, I felt so 
excluded because I wasn't the 

261
00:14:47,270 --> 00:14:50,830
one drinking alcohol. 
So it was more of a thing that I

262
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:55,070
needed to do to save my life, 
frankly to to get sober. 

263
00:14:55,790 --> 00:15:00,070
And now it's turned into like. 
My life, Of course. 

264
00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:04,670
You know, there's a reason I'm 
on this podcast. 

265
00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:07,390
So who's going to, who's going 
to address the elephant in the 

266
00:15:07,390 --> 00:15:07,910
room? 
Right. 

267
00:15:08,270 --> 00:15:11,990
Well, before we transition to 
that, something that came to 

268
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:15,310
mind as you talked about, you 
know, being hospitalized twice 

269
00:15:15,310 --> 00:15:18,590
for alcohol poisoning, I 
remember the last time I prayed,

270
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:22,980
I was about 20, between 24 and 
25 years old. 

271
00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:26,900
And I said, God, listen, if you 
got a lesson to show me, I need 

272
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:29,500
you to just don't take off a 
limb. 

273
00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:33,060
Don't put me in a car accident. 
Just like, show me I'm doing the

274
00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:35,020
right thing and I'll just keep 
doing that. 

275
00:15:35,020 --> 00:15:41,260
Don't, like, blow my life up 
with a terrible thing happening 

276
00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:44,350
to teach me a lesson? 
Like I'm, I'm good at learning 

277
00:15:44,350 --> 00:15:47,790
lessons by positive 
reinforcement, right? 

278
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:54,990
And so my question for you is 
how can someone kind of see the 

279
00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:59,510
signs before it hits to or it 
starts to get to a point where 

280
00:15:59,510 --> 00:16:02,910
they put themselves in dangerous
situations or before they end up

281
00:16:02,910 --> 00:16:06,110
hospitalized for alcohol 
poisoning where they may think 

282
00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:09,670
that they may want to assess 
their relationship to alcohol? 

283
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:12,940
Well, I would. 
First of all it is. 

284
00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:15,940
It is purely individual to every
single person. 

285
00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:21,180
And drinking 2 glasses of wine 
and feeling a little headachy 

286
00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:24,940
and dizzy might be someone's 
like this is my sign that I 

287
00:16:24,940 --> 00:16:28,180
can't feel like this anymore. 
And for someone else it might 

288
00:16:28,180 --> 00:16:31,220
take them a hospitalization to 
realize that they can't keep 

289
00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:33,500
putting themselves and others in
danger. 

290
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:37,420
So it's everyone has a personal 
sort of like. 

291
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:41,550
Set point or a point of of no 
return. 

292
00:16:41,550 --> 00:16:44,910
And I would I would certainly 
hope that people don't reach the

293
00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:47,510
point where they are getting 
hospitalized for alcohol 

294
00:16:47,510 --> 00:16:49,350
poisoning. 
You know, I didn't get my 

295
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:53,470
stomach pumped but I was heavily
monitored throughout the night 

296
00:16:53,470 --> 00:16:56,750
for for both of my you know, 
stays in in ERS. 

297
00:16:56,750 --> 00:17:00,870
And you know it's it's difficult
because like when you're in it 

298
00:17:01,190 --> 00:17:03,870
you're not thinking rationally 
like when you're when you're 

299
00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:06,829
intoxicated from alcohol it's we
know that it's. 

300
00:17:07,329 --> 00:17:08,650
It's called intoxicated for a 
reason. 

301
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:12,810
It's a toxin, it's a poison. 
And and when it's in your 

302
00:17:12,810 --> 00:17:15,970
system, it affects so many 
different things, not just 

303
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:19,050
physiologically, but 
neurologically, emotionally, all

304
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:21,810
of the all of the things. 
And so your brain is just not 

305
00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:25,530
thinking rationally and it can 
be very difficult to access any 

306
00:17:25,530 --> 00:17:34,690
kind of any kind of not will, 
but just like self-control. 

307
00:17:35,050 --> 00:17:38,010
Selfcontrol, impulse control. 
Like stopping yourself before it

308
00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:41,010
gets worse. 
So you know, and I'm telling you

309
00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:44,450
like I'm, I thought of myself as
quite responsible beforehand and

310
00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:46,610
still do. 
But I would, I would always 

311
00:17:46,610 --> 00:17:49,290
impose limits on myself. 
Tonight is A2 drink night for 

312
00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:50,570
me. 
I'm going to space it out with 

313
00:17:50,570 --> 00:17:55,490
water and I and I did. 
And then something would change 

314
00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:57,090
and I would drink another drink 
or drink it. 

315
00:17:57,810 --> 00:18:01,190
There were or there were plenty 
of nights where I had a quote UN

316
00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:04,010
quote normal night where I ended
up back home. 

317
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:06,910
That you know, there there 
wasn't Uber back then, but I 

318
00:18:06,910 --> 00:18:09,990
would either like Metro home, 
take a cab home, whatever the 

319
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:13,950
case may be, get home safely, be
in bed. 

320
00:18:14,030 --> 00:18:16,950
Nothing, nothing went wrong. 
But just as many nights 

321
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:19,950
something would go wrong and and
then of course then there were 

322
00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:24,030
those handful of nights that 
were really traumatic. 

323
00:18:24,910 --> 00:18:28,670
So it's really difficult to say 
like how can how can you stop 

324
00:18:28,670 --> 00:18:30,190
yourself from getting to that 
point. 

325
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:32,590
I think now there are so many 
more. 

326
00:18:33,130 --> 00:18:39,490
Beverage options that provide 
social elixirs and social 

327
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:42,610
gelling, whether they're 
functional beverages, whether 

328
00:18:42,610 --> 00:18:46,690
they're light cannabis 
beverages, if people want, sort 

329
00:18:46,690 --> 00:18:50,820
of. 
Some sort of different mood or 

330
00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:53,060
mood enhancing. 
You know I'm I'm not here to 

331
00:18:53,060 --> 00:18:55,860
judge what what someone does but
it's it's ultimately going to 

332
00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:57,740
still be healthier than than 
drinking alcohol. 

333
00:18:57,740 --> 00:19:00,860
But there are other options that
they can have so that they don't

334
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:03,180
feel like they have to have 
alcohol to get to a different 

335
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:06,420
place. 
But it's really hard once you're

336
00:19:06,420 --> 00:19:09,580
once you already have alcohol in
your system to make those self 

337
00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:13,340
controlling decisions. 
So I would just encourage people

338
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:16,620
to. 
To be sober curious. 

339
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:18,500
To be more mindful of their 
consumption. 

340
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,540
There's so many great books and 
podcasts out there. 

341
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:25,380
One of the, like, sort of bibles
of sober curiosity is called 

342
00:19:25,380 --> 00:19:28,180
Sober Curious. 
I mean it it's it doesn't have 

343
00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:29,580
to be any more obvious than 
that. 

344
00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:33,540
And it's it's a really great 
book on just getting curious 

345
00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:36,740
about your consumption, treating
it like a scientific experiment,

346
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:40,980
trying one month of not drinking
alcohol. 

347
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,080
It's a lot more difficult if 
it's like a food issue. 

348
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,080
Someone has, you know, you can't
stop eating, but you can't stop 

349
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,920
drinking. 
You can't stop drinking. 

350
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,120
It's hard. 
It's not easy. 

351
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,200
I'm not gonna lie, like, I'm not
gonna sugarcoat it. 

352
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,080
If that's something that's part 
of your, like, life, it's gonna 

353
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,320
be difficult. 
But like, it's so worth it. 

354
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,120
It's just so worth it. 
And even if you, even if you 

355
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,890
drink less like. 
There are a lot of people who 

356
00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:10,490
can moderate or can just drink 
less alcohol and that is 

357
00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:12,410
ultimately that's that's harm 
reduction. 

358
00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:16,530
So it's it's much better than 
getting drunk if you're drinking

359
00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:20,650
like a glass or two of wine or a
few beers, you know, spread out 

360
00:20:20,650 --> 00:20:24,850
throughout the night as opposed 
to like a six pack of beer or a 

361
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:27,890
whole bottle of wine, like, 
again, reduction is key. 

362
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:32,330
So it doesn't have to be a 
total, you know, a total like 

363
00:20:32,690 --> 00:20:35,880
abstinence. 
But yeah, I would just, I would 

364
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,120
just, you know, invite people. 
Rather than caution people, 

365
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:43,640
Invite people to be a little 
more curious about what they put

366
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,760
in their systems. 
As you were talking, a story 

367
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,680
came to mind and I had a little 
bit of a aha moment because 

368
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:59,240
personal story time. 
Yeah, so I I remember I met 

369
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,560
someone and we had sex while we 
were both drinking. 

370
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,480
And then we had sex when neither
of us were drinking. 

371
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,200
So we met for the first time. 
We connected. 

372
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,840
Things were going well. 
We negotiated things. 

373
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,280
I disclosed. 
I have RP She doesn't. 

374
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,320
First night time, whatever we 
want to call it that We hooked 

375
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,720
up. 
Phenomenal, memorable. 

376
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,920
Mindblowing. 
Couldn't wait to do it again. 

377
00:21:26,650 --> 00:21:28,770
A little bit of time passed, 
thought I'd never see her again 

378
00:21:28,770 --> 00:21:32,410
and she reached out and was 
going to be in the same place as

379
00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:35,010
me for another event that I was 
taking part of. 

380
00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:40,010
And we met up this time and at 
this time I wasn't drinking and 

381
00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:41,290
I let her know. 
It's like, hey, you know, I'm 

382
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:42,850
playing with this not drinking 
thing. 

383
00:21:43,090 --> 00:21:47,170
And she was like, oh, OK, well, 
I've been wondering about that 

384
00:21:47,170 --> 00:21:48,610
myself. 
So I want to drink. 

385
00:21:48,770 --> 00:21:52,130
So cool. 
We get together and we're not 

386
00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:58,260
drinking and. 
I in hindsight now I recognize 

387
00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:04,460
that she seemed to have needed 
that alcohol to perform in the 

388
00:22:04,460 --> 00:22:10,540
way that she was performing, and
for me it felt as if I 

389
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:13,420
recognized that, like I was just
more present and in tune with 

390
00:22:13,420 --> 00:22:15,740
what was happening around me, 
not drinking. 

391
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,120
So I was able to pick up on 
things that may have been 

392
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:23,240
present before that weren't now.
Like I now from, you know, 

393
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,120
having this conversation with 
you wonder if the second time it

394
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,920
was like, more of her thinking 
in her head because I'm I 

395
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,520
pointed this out to her. 
I was like, hey, it seems like 

396
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,720
you're making an attempt to end 
these sex sessions a lot faster.

397
00:22:40,460 --> 00:22:44,420
And I didn't register that until
after we had like a check in, 

398
00:22:44,420 --> 00:22:46,540
after we had party ways for the 
weekend. 

399
00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:49,780
And she started crying. 
Like when I pointed that out to 

400
00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:52,660
her, I was like, it seemed like 
that's what was happening. 

401
00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:55,140
And I know we had a lot of 
conversations about like her 

402
00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:58,300
past trauma. 
So I kind of knew what not to 

403
00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:02,900
do, what to do, and so in 
communicating with her. 

404
00:23:03,630 --> 00:23:05,550
Afterwards, she just was like 
balling. 

405
00:23:05,550 --> 00:23:09,310
She was like, I just, I don't no
one's ever noticed her ass. 

406
00:23:09,310 --> 00:23:13,190
And she just felt like, so seen 
from that experience and you 

407
00:23:13,190 --> 00:23:14,830
know her. 
I am kind of like feeling a 

408
00:23:14,830 --> 00:23:18,150
little bit bad because, I mean, 
not because I made her cry, but 

409
00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:20,750
because it's like I wish that I 
would have had words and 

410
00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:24,470
language to mention that in the 
moment, but it was just like an 

411
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:29,430
avoidance of presence for her 
with alcohol, because for her 

412
00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:33,530
using alcohol. 
Meant that she was able to be 

413
00:23:33,530 --> 00:23:38,650
more present and avoid whatever 
the real presence would bring up

414
00:23:38,650 --> 00:23:41,090
for her. 
And this time that wasn't the 

415
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:42,850
case. 
But the thought that I had was 

416
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:45,450
maybe she actually wasn't OK 
with me having herpes because 

417
00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:48,890
she didn't have herpes and 
that's why it was like sped up 

418
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:50,810
and she didn't want to like hurt
my feelings. 

419
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:53,450
This is just a thought not to 
say that this is the thought 

420
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:55,730
because this is, it's an 
interesting thought. 

421
00:23:57,290 --> 00:23:59,530
I mean, I I don't know. 
I'm not her, but I don't think 

422
00:23:59,530 --> 00:24:02,050
that was probably that. 
It was just probably the fact 

423
00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:06,730
that as a woman who's had sex 
with and without alcohol, 

424
00:24:07,530 --> 00:24:11,370
without alcohol, all of the 
emotions are much more front of 

425
00:24:11,370 --> 00:24:15,930
mind. 
And it I have felt emotionally 

426
00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:19,890
raw after intercourse before in 
different, you know, different 

427
00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:21,810
points in my life. 
So it's just possible that 

428
00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:27,740
something about the conversation
sparked that in her or who 

429
00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:30,860
knows, I don't. 
I mean did she you said that you

430
00:24:30,860 --> 00:24:33,860
had a conversation with her to 
begin with and she heard you and

431
00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:37,820
registered. 
I hope who knows, But I mean, I 

432
00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:43,760
don't know if she was aware of 
the fact that you had HSV the 

433
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,600
second time. 
Yeah, yeah, we we talked about 

434
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,800
all of that, right. 
But I'm just like, then why 

435
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,320
would she rush through it if 
she, I mean, just if it bothered

436
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,960
her, like don't do it in the 1st
place. 

437
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,840
Like I don't. 
So I don't think that's, that's 

438
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,760
what was going on. 
There's probably something else 

439
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,240
there. 
But it's so interesting how when

440
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,320
you take away the alcohol, a lot
of, I mean it's usually alcohol 

441
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,520
is, is is, it's a symptom. 
It's not, it's not what's really

442
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,120
going on. 
It can mask things. 

443
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,040
It can help it. 
It's it's a coping tool. 

444
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,920
It's a negative coping strategy.
But it's a coping strategy to 

445
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,800
feel, to quote UN quote, feel 
more confident, feel more 

446
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,400
comfortable, feel more at ease 
in the in the moment, so to 

447
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,400
speak. 
But it ultimately and usually 

448
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:33,040
ends up in worse anxiety the 
next day and and you know I used

449
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,090
to I used to drink because I for
a for a variety of reasons. 

450
00:25:37,090 --> 00:25:39,210
But only until I got sober did I
realize that I was self 

451
00:25:39,210 --> 00:25:41,970
medicating over a lot of 
undiagnosed mental health stuff.

452
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:46,330
I have OCD. 
It's very debilitating actually.

453
00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:50,650
The fact that I'm able to 
maintain different contracts and

454
00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:57,330
work and be you know a figure in
my industry while still battling

455
00:25:57,330 --> 00:26:01,690
a lot of like mental demons and 
not drinking is a is a huge feat

456
00:26:01,690 --> 00:26:03,800
for me. 
But it's it's something that, 

457
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,080
you know, drinking alcohol just 
made it kind of it muted it a 

458
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,280
little bit. 
It just made it fuzzier. 

459
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,640
It wasn't as sharp in my head. 
I have, you know, a history with

460
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,080
panic disorder, generalized 
anxiety, and and of course a lot

461
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,560
of trauma, big T and little T 
One of my big T's is obviously 

462
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:29,190
what landed me on this podcast. 
And it's not, it's not the 

463
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:31,870
diagnosis per se, but it 
certainly is the diagnosis. 

464
00:26:31,870 --> 00:26:36,670
At the same time, it was a 
result of date rape and it was 

465
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:39,350
the first, it was the night I 
lost my virginity. 

466
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:43,150
So it was the trifecta, losing 
my virginity via date rape and 

467
00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:46,590
getting herpes as you know, 
right away. 

468
00:26:47,030 --> 00:26:51,870
And so for my whole adult sex 
life, I have had to navigate 

469
00:26:51,870 --> 00:26:57,460
having HS V2. 
I've not had a breakout since my

470
00:26:57,540 --> 00:27:02,260
initial diagnosis, maybe once, a
few years into it, but that's 

471
00:27:03,140 --> 00:27:07,260
what is time. 
Let's see, that's 18 years. 

472
00:27:07,540 --> 00:27:10,420
I was 22 when I lost my 
virginity, which is old for some

473
00:27:10,420 --> 00:27:14,860
people, but I was 22. 
It was the night before college 

474
00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:19,700
graduation and it was with the 
boy that I had a huge crush on 

475
00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:24,310
my whole four years. 
And I went into the situation 

476
00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:28,430
very consensually. 
And then the way it happened was

477
00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:30,990
not consensual and it was not 
with protection. 

478
00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:32,710
And that's not something that I 
consented to. 

479
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:35,990
I I was in health class, I 
remember all of the stories and 

480
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:38,310
I was like, you are not coming 
near me without a condom, like 

481
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:40,150
let's go have some late night 
food. 

482
00:27:41,150 --> 00:27:48,280
And anyway, suffice it to say is
that before I knew it, I mean 

483
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,440
how graphic? 
Like how graphic can I get? 

484
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,320
Or how should I? 
I'll put it in the show notes 

485
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,760
like heads up okay. 
Well, I don't wanna as. 

486
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,480
Comfortable as you are sharing, 
cuz I want this to just be you 

487
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,720
sharing your experience, right? 
So I mean, yeah, I went in very 

488
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,560
consensually. 
I wanted to have sex with him. 

489
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,680
I had a huge crush on him. 
It wasn't ever love. 

490
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,840
It wasn't love, but it was like,
I had a very I held a torch for 

491
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,740
this guy and I wanted to have 
sex with him and I wanted to 

492
00:28:17,740 --> 00:28:22,260
lose my virginity to him. 
I thought, anyway, trouble with 

493
00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:25,540
the condom. 
And I was like, well, why don't 

494
00:28:25,540 --> 00:28:28,980
we, why don't we go cuz I didn't
know what went on. 

495
00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:31,380
I mean, we glossed over that in 
health class. 

496
00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:34,340
Like, I've never seen one in 
real life, really. 

497
00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:39,260
I mean it's just like and so we 
went to like this late night, 

498
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,400
late night food place and came 
back and you know watched TV and

499
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,600
had our food. 
And then like I kind of fell 

500
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:52,440
asleep. 
I we were sober, by the way, we 

501
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,320
were not, we were not drinking 
alcohol. 

502
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,960
So I was sober. 
I was still in my drinking days,

503
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,720
but I was, I was not drinking 
that night because I wanted to 

504
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,960
be present for this. 
And then the next thing I knew, 

505
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,960
he was inside me without a 
condom and I didn't really 

506
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,790
realize. 
And you, you cut out a little 

507
00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:12,190
bit earlier. 
You said you fell asleep. 

508
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:17,830
I was kind of like food coma E 
on the bed, like awake but not 

509
00:29:18,030 --> 00:29:20,710
totally awake, sort of in that, 
like liminal state where you're 

510
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:25,110
kind of falling asleep. 
But I was, I was not passed out.

511
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:29,110
I'm kind of sleepy. 
And we were not drinking 

512
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:32,510
alcohol. 
And you know, the next thing I 

513
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:35,510
know he's inside of me without a
condom. 

514
00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:40,080
And I was really kind of 
paralyzed because I didn't know 

515
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,360
what to do. 
I was like, I'm having sex, 

516
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,120
right? 
Like, I think I'm having sex. 

517
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,520
But then I was like, but this is
not the way that I wanted it to 

518
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:47,920
be. 
But like, what am I supposed to 

519
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,960
say? 
What can I say? 

520
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,280
Like, should I get him to get 
off of me? 

521
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,160
Like, is he wearing? 
I was. 

522
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,920
There were so many things that 
were going through my head at 

523
00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:01,750
the same time. 
And you know, like, I do realize

524
00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:04,910
that there are some people that 
just don't know that they have 

525
00:30:04,910 --> 00:30:07,390
HSV because there's so many 
people. 

526
00:30:07,390 --> 00:30:09,550
Just like, you know, I think 
COVID taught us a lot of things 

527
00:30:09,550 --> 00:30:12,550
about being asymptomatic, right?
You can be asymptomatic but 

528
00:30:12,550 --> 00:30:17,790
still carry and pass it along. 
And I mean, I thought we had a 

529
00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:20,030
safe sex discussion. 
But like, I had never had a 

530
00:30:20,030 --> 00:30:22,270
partner. 
So I knew that I was coming to 

531
00:30:22,270 --> 00:30:26,710
the table with a clean slate. 
But we didn't really talk about 

532
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:28,910
a lot of those things. 
We were still kids like we were.

533
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:31,960
We were kids. 
And the thing that I'm even more

534
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,800
sort of like, embarrassed or 
ashamed about is that I went 

535
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:41,080
back the next night and 
willingly engaged in unprotected

536
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,240
sex because I thought that that 
was the only way that he was 

537
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:49,760
going to have sex with me. 
And and so a week, a week later 

538
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,880
I started getting like the worst
pain in my life in my genitals 

539
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,810
and I didn't know what to do. 
I was with my parents. 

540
00:30:58,810 --> 00:31:01,170
I didn't know how to drive so I 
couldn't drive myself anywhere 

541
00:31:01,170 --> 00:31:04,810
because we were my my dad's a 
retired U.S. diplomat so we were

542
00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:07,130
overseas. 
I was working at the embassy as 

543
00:31:07,130 --> 00:31:10,410
my as my part time job as my 
summer internship. 

544
00:31:10,410 --> 00:31:15,530
And so I just, I had to tell my 
mom I was like, I think I either

545
00:31:15,530 --> 00:31:17,530
have a yeast infection or an 
STD. 

546
00:31:17,530 --> 00:31:19,050
And I need, you know, I need 
your help. 

547
00:31:19,050 --> 00:31:22,290
Like, I need to go to the to to 
the health unit at the embassy. 

548
00:31:23,730 --> 00:31:26,730
And that's when they told me. 
I mean, they didn't, they did 

549
00:31:26,730 --> 00:31:28,450
not really have a good bedside 
manner there. 

550
00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:31,290
They weren't like, you know, oh 
gosh, we're so sorry about this.

551
00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:33,250
Like, they were just like you're
not going to be able to have a 

552
00:31:33,250 --> 00:31:35,570
child if you have an outbreak. 
Like, you're going to, you know,

553
00:31:36,370 --> 00:31:38,570
all of these just, it was just 
traumatizing. 

554
00:31:38,570 --> 00:31:40,850
And of course, then I had to 
get, like, HIV tests and 

555
00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:44,330
chlamydia test and gonorrhea. 
And I was not prepared for an 

556
00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:46,410
pregnancy test like all of the 
things I was. 

557
00:31:46,530 --> 00:31:51,070
Again, I was, I was a child. 22 
feels so old when you're 22, but

558
00:31:51,070 --> 00:31:55,630
you're a baby at 22. 
And it was just a lot to have to

559
00:31:55,670 --> 00:31:59,030
digest. 
And all of it was because 

560
00:31:59,030 --> 00:32:02,910
something was done in a way that
I didn't. 

561
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:05,790
I didn't agree to. 
I didn't sign off on that. 

562
00:32:06,910 --> 00:32:13,590
And it left me with having to 
navigate my whole life with with

563
00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:16,590
needing to disclose to people, 
because I was never going to 

564
00:32:16,590 --> 00:32:19,110
willingly put someone in the 
same position that I was put in.

565
00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:25,110
And I've gotten rejected so many
times over the years because 

566
00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:30,150
there is, as you are well aware,
Courtney, there is a humongous 

567
00:32:30,150 --> 00:32:35,030
stigma still around herpes and 
people are like, I don't want to

568
00:32:35,030 --> 00:32:37,590
get the herp. 
And like, I mean, when I hear 

569
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:40,860
stuff like that, it just, it 
just digs right into me. 

570
00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:46,100
It hurts it just because people 
just don't have the education. 

571
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:48,980
They're starting to get more 
with resources that are out 

572
00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:53,060
there like yours. 
But there's just, there's just 

573
00:32:53,060 --> 00:32:58,260
so much of it that that 
perpetuates because there's 

574
00:32:58,260 --> 00:33:03,060
this, there's this asymptomatic 
shedding for a lot of people and

575
00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:04,460
they don't realize that they 
have it. 

576
00:33:04,460 --> 00:33:09,340
And I did, by the way, confront 
this guy on on a phone call 

577
00:33:09,340 --> 00:33:13,820
shortly after I got diagnosed. 
And I said, you gave me herpes. 

578
00:33:13,820 --> 00:33:17,020
Like, how could you do that? 
I didn't have the right language

579
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:20,100
to really address him either. 
And he was like, I didn't know. 

580
00:33:20,100 --> 00:33:21,740
I'm so sorry. 
What are you talking about? 

581
00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:24,220
What are you talking about? 
Like a lot of denial there, but 

582
00:33:24,220 --> 00:33:26,700
he probably didn't know that he 
had it either. 

583
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:30,020
Of course, overtime, I've just 
had to forgive him because that 

584
00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:32,300
lets me off the hook. 
I was living with a lot of 

585
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:34,420
resentment and it was just 
hurting me. 

586
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:39,590
But it's it has been difficult 
over the years to find partners 

587
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:44,230
who either have had their own 
experience with it, have had 

588
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:49,270
partners with it or are just 
like well read and understand by

589
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:52,790
the way like having herpes. 
And in the age of COVID, that's 

590
00:33:52,790 --> 00:33:55,270
a whole other thing that was not
fun to navigate. 

591
00:33:55,270 --> 00:33:59,070
Because you're you're, you know,
you're you're dealing with two 

592
00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:00,510
different things that can be 
spread. 

593
00:34:01,510 --> 00:34:03,510
But we don't know that herpes 
isn't deadly. 

594
00:34:03,670 --> 00:34:06,070
It's not. 
You know, it's it's not. 

595
00:34:06,430 --> 00:34:08,790
And it's manageable. 
And I've hadn't. 

596
00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:12,670
I've been taking medication for 
years and years and years. 

597
00:34:12,670 --> 00:34:15,590
But gosh, it was a juicy the way
that it happened. 

598
00:34:15,590 --> 00:34:19,909
So, you know, sometimes things 
are really ironic. 

599
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:22,550
I'd never had sex before, and 
then all of a sudden I had 

600
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:27,550
herpes. 
Thank you for going there and 

601
00:34:27,550 --> 00:34:29,310
sharing that story with me. 
Are you OK? 

602
00:34:29,389 --> 00:34:30,909
Need a breath or break or 
anything? 

603
00:34:30,949 --> 00:34:33,429
Yeah, well, I just. 
I took a I just took a breath. 

604
00:34:35,179 --> 00:34:36,699
I knew we were going to go to 
some places. 

605
00:34:36,739 --> 00:34:39,659
I'm I'm in. 
I'm divorced from enough from 

606
00:34:39,659 --> 00:34:42,940
the situation. 
I thought you was about to say 

607
00:34:42,940 --> 00:34:44,860
divorce from him. 
I was about to ask you where 

608
00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:48,900
like how that relationship. 
I mean I mean that I've I've had

609
00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:54,580
I've had a lot of time and 
therapy and you know I'm I've 

610
00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:59,940
worked through a lot of that and
but gosh I still had a lot of 

611
00:35:02,370 --> 00:35:07,570
self flagellation. 
And and you know only only 

612
00:35:07,570 --> 00:35:13,170
recently you know in the past 
few years when when I think I I 

613
00:35:13,170 --> 00:35:17,410
found you and and I found a 
couple of other blogs out there 

614
00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:20,450
that were really doing some 
powerful things around talking 

615
00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:23,970
about herpes. 
Is that is is when I put my 

616
00:35:23,970 --> 00:35:27,330
diagnosis on my on my dating 
site and I'm not on the dating 

617
00:35:27,330 --> 00:35:29,550
site anymore. 
I've been I've been seeing 

618
00:35:29,550 --> 00:35:33,390
someone for a year now and it's 
just a really wonderful 

619
00:35:33,390 --> 00:35:38,550
relationship. 
But yeah, I mean, I was just 

620
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:40,950
like, I'm tired of getting 
rejected. 

621
00:35:41,350 --> 00:35:47,040
And even though I'd had practice
with disclosure, you know, in 

622
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,680
the, in the early days, I would 
have a lot of emotions around 

623
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,840
disclosure, like unload some of 
my trauma trauma dumping to 

624
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,960
people. 
And over time and as I, as I did

625
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,440
age, like I got more comfortable
with just sharing the facts 

626
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,560
like, hey, I have a skin 
disorder and you know, or 

627
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,120
whatever you want to. 
However, I ended up saying it. 

628
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,040
But, you know, I was just like, 
I was tired of having that 

629
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,040
conversation and instead I just 
wanted to put it on my on my 

630
00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:14,210
dating profile and then we could
have conversations around that. 

631
00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:16,930
But at least the, you know, at 
least the cat was out of the bag

632
00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:20,050
that way. 
But man, I mean, I'm not going 

633
00:36:20,050 --> 00:36:23,170
to lie like it's been, it's been
one of the most, like, difficult

634
00:36:23,170 --> 00:36:27,770
things to navigate through. 
And then having herpes and being

635
00:36:28,010 --> 00:36:32,090
a sober person throughout the 
better part of my adult life is 

636
00:36:32,090 --> 00:36:35,930
just a there's a lot to to to 
wade through. 

637
00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:39,790
And so anyone who's going 
through either of those things 

638
00:36:39,790 --> 00:36:41,950
like, you know, gets a gets a 
vote from me. 

639
00:36:41,950 --> 00:36:44,630
But if you have both, it's very 
difficult. 

640
00:36:44,670 --> 00:36:48,750
And I mean I'm here as a 
resource, trust me, but it's 

641
00:36:48,750 --> 00:36:49,990
it's hard. 
It's really hard. 

642
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:51,510
I'm not going to take that away 
from anyone. 

643
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:54,870
It's very difficult. 
But there is, There is like 

644
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:58,350
there is definitely hope. 
Often times when people will 

645
00:36:58,350 --> 00:37:02,430
receive a herpes diagnosis, they
have experience to draw from. 

646
00:37:03,090 --> 00:37:05,650
From that life beforehand. 
And they could say, Oh my God, 

647
00:37:05,650 --> 00:37:09,130
my sex life is now over because 
before I had herpes, this is 

648
00:37:09,130 --> 00:37:11,930
what my sex life looked like. 
You didn't have that. 

649
00:37:11,930 --> 00:37:15,490
So can you talk me through what 
some of your thoughts were when 

650
00:37:15,490 --> 00:37:18,450
you got your diagnosis, aside 
from being told you can't have 

651
00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:20,970
kids if you have an outbreak? 
Yeah. 

652
00:37:20,970 --> 00:37:27,970
I mean, well, gosh, it's it's 
hard to go back 18 years, but I 

653
00:37:27,970 --> 00:37:31,210
just thought, like, I was. 
I mean, I just felt like I was 

654
00:37:31,210 --> 00:37:34,310
never gonna have sex again. 
And. 

655
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:38,990
The way that you had sex though?
Had sex ever become enjoyable 

656
00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:43,350
for you up to that point? 
Well, I'd never had sex before. 

657
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:45,750
No, no. 
I mean, like, so the first time 

658
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:49,830
you had sex, you were assault, 
you were raped, and then you 

659
00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:54,670
said you went back and over the 
next week you got a diagnosis. 

660
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:58,190
So did sex ever become 
something? 

661
00:37:58,590 --> 00:38:01,390
Meaningful to you at all? 
Like you said that you wanted to

662
00:38:01,390 --> 00:38:03,550
have sex, you wanted to have a 
sexual experience with this 

663
00:38:03,550 --> 00:38:08,670
person, and then you went 
forward to have sex afterwards. 

664
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:12,470
What was it to you? 
Did it ever become the kind of 

665
00:38:12,510 --> 00:38:14,150
sex you wanted to have as a 
person? 

666
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:17,870
No, because I mean, it was just 
like it was two nights like. 

667
00:38:18,820 --> 00:38:20,340
OK. 
It was just twice. 

668
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:22,900
I thought it was over the week 
like, OK, all right. 

669
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:25,220
I'm no, no, it was just it was 
two nights. 

670
00:38:25,220 --> 00:38:28,540
But even over the week, like 
like I I don't think I would 

671
00:38:28,540 --> 00:38:31,460
have. 
I mean it's not like years had 

672
00:38:31,460 --> 00:38:35,540
passed or months had passed 
where it definitely did not. 

673
00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:38,220
I always thought I was going to 
lose my virginity to someone 

674
00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:41,100
that I cared about, like every 
girl in every movie, right? 

675
00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:44,690
I just thought it was going to 
be a little more special. 

676
00:38:44,690 --> 00:38:47,010
But I thought at the same time 
that this was going to be a 

677
00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:50,250
special experience because I've,
I had known him for four years. 

678
00:38:50,530 --> 00:38:52,210
Whether or not we were even good
friends. 

679
00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:54,770
Like, I don't know. 
But, you know, it wasn't, it 

680
00:38:54,770 --> 00:38:58,170
wasn't a stranger. 
So I had a lot of my own 

681
00:38:58,170 --> 00:39:02,250
reservations about calling it 
date rape for years because I 

682
00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:07,170
was like, well, I knew him well,
probably just calling it rape. 

683
00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:10,890
I was like, I that no, I I knew 
this person and it wasn't a 

684
00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:16,290
violent situation at all. 
But over over time, as I and as 

685
00:39:16,290 --> 00:39:20,170
I've, you know, become more 
educated about consent and about

686
00:39:20,170 --> 00:39:24,250
the language around all of this,
I realized it was not consensual

687
00:39:24,250 --> 00:39:28,490
the way that it happened. 
I didn't get a say in in how it 

688
00:39:28,490 --> 00:39:30,730
happened. 
And you know, even if he 

689
00:39:30,730 --> 00:39:33,610
wouldn't have, even if he 
wouldn't have known that he was 

690
00:39:33,610 --> 00:39:38,090
a carrier, I would have, you 
know, and I would have liked the

691
00:39:38,090 --> 00:39:41,410
option of knowing that hey, at 
least like use protection with 

692
00:39:41,410 --> 00:39:45,750
me. 
So, so it took a long time for 

693
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:48,710
sex to become meaningful in any 
way. 

694
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:52,830
And also, I mean navigating all 
of that at the same time as 

695
00:39:52,990 --> 00:39:56,390
navigating, sort of coming to 
terms with being bisexual my 

696
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:57,870
whole life. 
Plot twist. 

697
00:39:59,430 --> 00:40:01,030
I feel like that just came out 
of nowhere. 

698
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:05,710
Yeah, sorry. 
I mean, I plot twist. 

699
00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:07,470
Yeah. 
I mean, I was, I was, I was 

700
00:40:07,470 --> 00:40:11,030
dealing with a lot of 
internalized biphobia. 

701
00:40:11,970 --> 00:40:15,690
Internalized like, I wouldn't 
say self hatred, but certainly 

702
00:40:15,690 --> 00:40:21,250
self. 
Maybe like ALP apathy, like self

703
00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:23,130
apathy or self just, I don't 
know. 

704
00:40:23,130 --> 00:40:26,770
But like the the having this 
mental health stuff, having the 

705
00:40:26,770 --> 00:40:30,730
the, the drinking stuff and then
getting sober, dealing with 

706
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:33,930
having herpes and then dealing 
with like, you know, these 

707
00:40:33,930 --> 00:40:36,250
feelings that I had had the. 
Community crisis. 

708
00:40:37,530 --> 00:40:40,450
Yeah. 
God, my whole, like 20s had been

709
00:40:40,930 --> 00:40:44,290
essentially a big fat identity 
crisis because I just didn't. 

710
00:40:44,650 --> 00:40:46,570
I wasn't comfortable sharing 
that I was by. 

711
00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:48,450
I didn't do a lot of 
experimenting. 

712
00:40:48,450 --> 00:40:52,290
So I figured it probably didn't.
I mean, like, you know, I've 

713
00:40:52,290 --> 00:40:56,530
learned a lot, ironically or not
ironically, from the sober sex. 

714
00:40:56,530 --> 00:41:02,690
1st, from Tawny, you know, she's
she's in what's considered I 

715
00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:04,330
guess like a heteronormative 
relationship. 

716
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:06,930
But she talks a lot about you 
know, that doesn't take away the

717
00:41:06,930 --> 00:41:09,090
fact that she's bisexual. 
And that gave me a lot of 

718
00:41:09,090 --> 00:41:14,570
courage to to share out loud 
with me like I've been, I've 

719
00:41:14,570 --> 00:41:17,970
been in only like you know quote
UN quote heteronormative 

720
00:41:17,970 --> 00:41:21,610
relationships. 
But I've always been bisexual 

721
00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:26,290
and I've had a few experiments 
over the years and you know I 

722
00:41:26,290 --> 00:41:28,930
haven't done a whole lot, but it
doesn't take away my sexuality. 

723
00:41:28,930 --> 00:41:32,620
But I was dealing with all of 
that at the same time and it was

724
00:41:32,620 --> 00:41:34,700
a lot. 
And so therapy works. 

725
00:41:35,060 --> 00:41:36,860
It's amazing. 
I love therapy. 

726
00:41:38,740 --> 00:41:42,660
But yeah, there there was just a
lot that I was dealing, a lot 

727
00:41:42,660 --> 00:41:44,780
that I was going through, a lot 
that I was dealing with. 

728
00:41:44,780 --> 00:41:49,380
And and we all know that life 
just like recovery, just like 

729
00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:50,940
anything. 
I mean, it's not linear. 

730
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:57,810
There are a lot of ups and downs
and you know, my, my recovery is

731
00:41:57,810 --> 00:42:00,210
is not about drinking anymore. 
It hasn't been for a long time. 

732
00:42:00,210 --> 00:42:02,890
It's about my mental health. 
It's about the journey that I'm 

733
00:42:02,890 --> 00:42:09,330
on with my with my mental health
disorders and yeah, OK, 

734
00:42:09,450 --> 00:42:11,610
vulnerability hangover. 
This whole podcast is 

735
00:42:11,650 --> 00:42:15,170
vulnerability hangover. 
No, I I a lot of people go here 

736
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:17,010
with me and then I don't hear 
from them ever again. 

737
00:42:17,010 --> 00:42:20,170
So I I hope that we can at least
they'll follow each other on 

738
00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:24,370
social media. 
I have. 

739
00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:26,770
There's two questions that are 
lingering right now for me. 

740
00:42:26,770 --> 00:42:31,810
One of which is typically 
people's first sexual experience

741
00:42:32,010 --> 00:42:34,650
kind of shapes their like turn 
on. 

742
00:42:34,650 --> 00:42:38,090
So sometimes like our traumas 
can become linked to our turn 

743
00:42:38,090 --> 00:42:40,770
ONS in a way you shake your 
head. 

744
00:42:40,770 --> 00:42:43,250
Yeah. 
Is is that something true for 

745
00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:47,850
your even something that your 
sexual, your first sexual 

746
00:42:47,850 --> 00:42:51,430
experience happened in your 20s?
Do you find that there are any 

747
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:54,510
components of that that still 
play a role in your sexual 

748
00:42:54,510 --> 00:42:55,710
arousal? 
Now? 

749
00:42:56,990 --> 00:42:59,550
Yes. 
But it wasn't so much about, 

750
00:42:59,550 --> 00:43:04,230
like, it's not like I'm looking 
for power plays or you know, 

751
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:08,150
being being. 
I'm still kind of working my way

752
00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:10,390
around language around like sex,
positive language. 

753
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:13,790
So it's not about like, you 
know, rape fantasies or or power

754
00:43:13,790 --> 00:43:16,650
moves or BDSM or because it was 
not like that. 

755
00:43:17,610 --> 00:43:19,770
It was, again, not consensual, 
but it wasn't like that. 

756
00:43:20,010 --> 00:43:23,610
I think how it's sort of 
affected me up until, you know, 

757
00:43:23,610 --> 00:43:26,010
today is that this, this kid was
a redhead. 

758
00:43:26,290 --> 00:43:30,650
And I've still had kind of, I 
just, I love gingers as a 

759
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:32,410
result. 
I don't know, like it's just 

760
00:43:32,410 --> 00:43:35,050
what it is. 
I know you're hiding right now. 

761
00:43:35,050 --> 00:43:37,970
I'm sorry. 
But it's just like that, I mean.

762
00:43:38,090 --> 00:43:39,890
I'm trying to keep my laughing 
off the mic. 

763
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:42,890
No, it's fine. 
Please laugh because that's 

764
00:43:42,930 --> 00:43:47,270
that's kind of how it now. 
It sort of played a role for me 

765
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:53,070
that I was just constantly drawn
to redheaded guys and gals, but 

766
00:43:53,070 --> 00:43:57,110
mostly redheaded guys. 
And yeah, it's a direct result 

767
00:43:57,190 --> 00:44:00,390
of you know me having a huge 
crush on this guy who ended up 

768
00:44:00,390 --> 00:44:05,790
like not knowing it honestly, 
but like effectively quote, UN 

769
00:44:05,790 --> 00:44:09,880
quote rooting my life. 
But as I've as I've realized 

770
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,480
that that's it's not like, yeah,
I'd love for there to be a cure.

771
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,200
I know you would too probably 
maybe. 

772
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,480
But at this point it's just like
it's it's a dormant thing inside

773
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,680
of me and the medication that I 
take is more for someone else's 

774
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,760
protection rather than my own 
because I don't get outbreaks. 

775
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,200
And if I didn't know that I had 
it, it wouldn't affect my life 

776
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,640
in the least. 
So it only came up or only comes

777
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,800
up when I have to have 
disclosure conversations which 

778
00:44:38,430 --> 00:44:42,550
have always been like the 
biggest, biggest source of 

779
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:45,990
anxiety for me. 
Like it just, you know I'll up 

780
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:49,150
until my my current 
relationship, I the last guy 

781
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:54,190
that I dated, God, I was like 
very drawn to him and I 

782
00:44:54,190 --> 00:44:58,830
disclosed to him when I wasn't 
you know like I I didn't There 

783
00:44:58,830 --> 00:45:01,830
were no waterworks. 
It was just like a very factual 

784
00:45:02,070 --> 00:45:04,350
conversation. 
And it was around the time I 

785
00:45:04,350 --> 00:45:08,220
think that I went to your, your 
support session that had some, 

786
00:45:08,220 --> 00:45:11,740
like, you know, ways to disclose
in sort of a sex positive way. 

787
00:45:11,740 --> 00:45:12,900
I think that was the 
conversation. 

788
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:14,940
It was like disclosure, sex, 
positive disclosure. 

789
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:19,700
And he seemed to take the, he 
seemed to take it really well. 

790
00:45:20,380 --> 00:45:23,180
But just a few days later he was
like, I can't do this. 

791
00:45:23,180 --> 00:45:26,820
I can't, you know, I can't put 
myself in a situation with 

792
00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:28,980
someone who has, you know, an 
STD. 

793
00:45:28,980 --> 00:45:31,220
And meanwhile he'd been telling 
me all these things about how 

794
00:45:31,220 --> 00:45:35,080
he's so progressive and how he's
so, like, you know, he's been 

795
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,280
with so many different types of 
people and had a very like, you 

796
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,320
know, wild sexual appetite or a 
very varied, you know, I don't 

797
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,960
know what but but to be to be 
rejected over that, it's like 

798
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,040
literally one of the most common
things ever. 

799
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,520
But it really affected me 
because, again, I was like, I 

800
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,400
put, I don't know about you, 
Courtney, but I every time I had

801
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,410
to put myself out there. 
It's just emotionally draining, 

802
00:46:00,410 --> 00:46:02,570
emotionally exhausting to have 
to do this disclosure 

803
00:46:02,570 --> 00:46:05,250
conversation when for some 
people it's not. 

804
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:08,730
It's not a big deal. 
I've gotten really, really good 

805
00:46:08,730 --> 00:46:13,370
at starting to like, just take 
out any of the emotional junk 

806
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:16,770
around it. 
But I was still getting 

807
00:46:16,770 --> 00:46:18,210
rejected. 
And that's what that's what led 

808
00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:22,050
me to just, you know, put the 
put the herpes on my on my Hinge

809
00:46:22,050 --> 00:46:24,930
profile. 
I got a lot fewer matches, but 

810
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:28,470
it was on my terms and I felt 
much more empowered about it. 

811
00:46:29,390 --> 00:46:35,710
I didn't meet my my current 
partner through Hinge, but I 

812
00:46:35,710 --> 00:46:39,310
felt so empowered by by putting 
it forward saying like this is 

813
00:46:39,310 --> 00:46:45,390
this is me, I am, you know, I'm 
medicated, I am well read 

814
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:47,670
educated, I can help you. 
You can do your own research, 

815
00:46:47,710 --> 00:46:50,430
but this is, this is the deal. 
And you know, if you still want 

816
00:46:50,430 --> 00:46:54,280
to talk, you know, hit me up or 
what, I don't know what it was 

817
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,600
and I had it, you know, even I 
had it like in the pinned in my 

818
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,920
pinned post on Instagram for a 
long, long time because I wanted

819
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,640
people to know that it's OK Like
it's totally OK and it's it 

820
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,880
needs to be more normalized. 
But I'll I'll be honest, like 

821
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,600
it's been one of the the most 
challenging things to have to 

822
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,520
navigate in my adult life. 
More so than sobriety. 

823
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,940
Like, actually, by a lot. 
Okay, the second question that I

824
00:47:23,940 --> 00:47:28,580
have for you was you mentioned 
alcohol sort of being like a 

825
00:47:28,580 --> 00:47:32,580
coping thing for all of these 
other things that you had going 

826
00:47:32,580 --> 00:47:37,940
on that were undiagnosed. 
My curiosity is what's replaced 

827
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:40,700
alcohol, if anything. 
So like if alcohol was your 

828
00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:44,140
crutch for avoiding dealing with
said. 

829
00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:49,300
OCD and whatever else. 
All my other stuff, all my 

830
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:50,860
other. 
Stuff. 

831
00:47:50,860 --> 00:47:54,660
Where are you able to put that? 
And I don't want to call it 

832
00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:58,700
addiction, but there's like an 
energy of compulsion that I 

833
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:02,540
think we tend to invest a lot of
ourselves into. 

834
00:48:03,220 --> 00:48:06,780
Alcohol can be one, but when you
remove alcohol, what's there 

835
00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:08,300
next? 
Is there sex? 

836
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:11,380
Is it sex that's there? 
Is it vaping? 

837
00:48:11,380 --> 00:48:12,740
That's there. 
Is it? 

838
00:48:13,390 --> 00:48:15,990
Reading. 
Is it obsessively cooking? 

839
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:17,430
Going to the gym? 
Right. 

840
00:48:17,790 --> 00:48:21,310
So, yeah, that's my question, if
that's clear enough for you. 

841
00:48:21,350 --> 00:48:25,310
Yeah, it's totally clear. 
And by the way, if, if if that's

842
00:48:25,310 --> 00:48:28,670
not enough, like ADD actually 
having obsessive compulsive 

843
00:48:28,670 --> 00:48:32,070
disorder to that mix because 
it's it's it's a lot of fun when

844
00:48:32,070 --> 00:48:36,470
you do that. 
So it's it's not so cut and dry 

845
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:39,950
for me. 
I didn't have another, you know,

846
00:48:40,740 --> 00:48:42,660
addiction that I replaced it 
with. 

847
00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:47,580
I do have definitely an 
addictive personality, but in 

848
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:51,820
hindsight I can see that and 
it's and I'm still in a lot of 

849
00:48:51,820 --> 00:48:56,380
trouble as a result. 
I am not responsible with money 

850
00:48:56,380 --> 00:48:58,380
or was not responsible with 
money. 

851
00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:00,340
So it's not that I had a 
shopping addiction. 

852
00:49:00,340 --> 00:49:04,300
It's not that I had a spending 
problem, a gambling problem, but

853
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:06,420
I never really knew how to 
manage my money. 

854
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:10,390
And and so that was going on 
when I was drinking and when I 

855
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:13,670
got sober and continuing into my
20s and to my 30s. 

856
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:16,030
And now here we are, I'm in a 
lot of debt. 

857
00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:19,310
I'm in a lot of debt and I don't
have any savings really to my 

858
00:49:19,310 --> 00:49:22,390
name. 
And it's all stuff that I've had

859
00:49:22,390 --> 00:49:26,070
to just like, you know, work my 
way through. 

860
00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:30,990
And you know, some of it I, I 
feel like was a direct result of

861
00:49:30,990 --> 00:49:33,070
like after I, after I quit 
drinking. 

862
00:49:33,070 --> 00:49:36,190
I didn't address my money 
issues, you know, So it's not 

863
00:49:36,190 --> 00:49:40,110
like I was, I was replacing any 
kind of addictive behavior 

864
00:49:40,110 --> 00:49:43,550
compulsions, but I was not 
addressing all of the underlying

865
00:49:43,550 --> 00:49:47,710
things that were going on. 
And you know, seeing the 

866
00:49:47,710 --> 00:49:49,550
therapist, seeing a 
psychiatrist, dealing with my 

867
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:52,070
drinking and stuff and with my 
mental health was was one thing.

868
00:49:52,070 --> 00:49:55,110
But I left this other thing 
completely unchecked. 

869
00:49:55,150 --> 00:50:00,270
And and you know, I I've just 
racked up a lot of credit card 

870
00:50:00,270 --> 00:50:02,750
debt and consumer debt and all 
sorts of things over the years 

871
00:50:02,750 --> 00:50:07,770
and it was a little more like 
insidious and and slow as 

872
00:50:07,770 --> 00:50:10,210
opposed to like you know, going 
out and blowing thousands of 

873
00:50:10,210 --> 00:50:12,130
dollars which I didn't have in 
the 1st place. 

874
00:50:12,490 --> 00:50:16,450
So yes and no, not any sort of 
immediate thing. 

875
00:50:16,450 --> 00:50:19,330
Like I I don't smoke. 
I'm really grateful that I don't

876
00:50:19,330 --> 00:50:23,370
because I know that's even more 
addictive and harder to quit. 

877
00:50:23,370 --> 00:50:27,170
But I don't smoke. 
I don't, I don't do any other 

878
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:30,930
drugs other than caffeine and I 
keep it to like 2 cups a day. 

879
00:50:31,330 --> 00:50:36,510
And but yeah, I mean, I I had, I
had and still have some money 

880
00:50:36,510 --> 00:50:40,030
issues that have continued to 
haunt me because I didn't look 

881
00:50:40,030 --> 00:50:44,070
at everything and get help for 
everything when I probably 

882
00:50:44,070 --> 00:50:47,670
should have. 
Do you find that in dating that 

883
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:52,870
these other things have an 
influence on disclosures when we

884
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:55,430
look at disclosure, right, we 
think about herpes disclosure, 

885
00:50:55,750 --> 00:51:00,750
but if I think finances and 
things like that. 

886
00:51:01,180 --> 00:51:05,180
Might even play more of a role 
with someone that you're wanting

887
00:51:05,180 --> 00:51:08,100
to get into a relationship with.
And a lot of times people don't 

888
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:10,180
even make it that far into the 
conversation. 

889
00:51:10,180 --> 00:51:12,740
But that's like something that 
should come up a lot sooner. 

890
00:51:13,020 --> 00:51:15,900
Because if that could be a deal 
breaker for someone you know, if

891
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:19,860
you're someone who is equally 
irresponsible with money, you 

892
00:51:19,860 --> 00:51:20,900
know that ain't going to work 
out. 

893
00:51:21,220 --> 00:51:24,540
Or if you're with someone. 
Who is very good with money, 

894
00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:26,580
being able to come in and say, 
all right, well, you know, 

895
00:51:26,580 --> 00:51:30,020
here's how I do things like if 
we get together, like we'll have

896
00:51:30,020 --> 00:51:31,860
a budget, I'm going to help you 
get on track. 

897
00:51:32,580 --> 00:51:37,460
Those kinds of conversations. 
Are those difficult for you to 

898
00:51:37,460 --> 00:51:41,220
have or do you have them at all?
Not anymore, because I'm. 

899
00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:45,860
I've been in a committed 
relationship for a year. 

900
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:51,050
But one of the things that I 
liked about OkCupid before it 

901
00:51:51,050 --> 00:51:54,850
got just crazy is, is all of the
questions that it had. 

902
00:51:54,890 --> 00:51:57,730
You know, like, is dating 
someone who's in debt a deal 

903
00:51:57,730 --> 00:52:00,130
breaker? 
Is dating someone who's messy a 

904
00:52:00,130 --> 00:52:05,010
deal breaker or overly clean? 
Because I'm messy, not dirty, 

905
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:08,650
not in that way anyway, and not 
in any way. 

906
00:52:08,650 --> 00:52:13,330
But like, you know, But poor 
joke aside, like I. 

907
00:52:13,650 --> 00:52:19,370
You know, someone being super, 
super uptight about being, like 

908
00:52:19,370 --> 00:52:23,010
so clean that you can't put 
anything, you know, astray, That

909
00:52:23,010 --> 00:52:25,290
would be a deal breaker for me 
more than dating someone who's 

910
00:52:25,290 --> 00:52:27,170
messy. 
So it's like, but a lot of those

911
00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:29,850
conversations, like, you know, 
are you significantly in debt? 

912
00:52:29,850 --> 00:52:32,210
Could you date someone who was 
in debt if there were reasons 

913
00:52:32,210 --> 00:52:33,970
behind it? 
You know, it's different than, 

914
00:52:34,410 --> 00:52:36,690
It's different than just being 
completely irresponsible with 

915
00:52:36,690 --> 00:52:37,250
money. 
Like. 

916
00:52:37,690 --> 00:52:41,890
So, yeah, those conversations 
should should be out there more 

917
00:52:41,890 --> 00:52:45,300
so than they are. 
And frankly, like finances are 

918
00:52:45,300 --> 00:52:48,940
probably heavier in my, in my 
mind than than a herpes 

919
00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:50,620
diagnosis. 
I mean, that's a really easy 

920
00:52:50,620 --> 00:52:53,340
thing to work through if you're 
careful and you're educated 

921
00:52:53,340 --> 00:52:58,460
about it. 
Yeah, I had my, I mean, I didn't

922
00:52:58,460 --> 00:53:00,700
get to the finance discussion 
with a lot of the people that I 

923
00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:03,020
dated because like, it was never
really a factor. 

924
00:53:03,020 --> 00:53:05,420
Like, it wasn't like let's 
combine our finances. 

925
00:53:05,420 --> 00:53:07,380
Let's talk about like, you know,
getting serious. 

926
00:53:07,380 --> 00:53:12,940
But, you know, now it's now it's
something that we're talking 

927
00:53:12,940 --> 00:53:16,700
about. 
So it's it's definitely, it's 

928
00:53:16,700 --> 00:53:18,340
definitely come in more 
recently. 

929
00:53:18,340 --> 00:53:21,980
But yeah, maybe, maybe it 
doesn't have to come up right 

930
00:53:21,980 --> 00:53:23,300
away and dating. 
I don't know, OK. 

931
00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:26,300
Well, thank you for sharing that
with me. 

932
00:53:26,540 --> 00:53:29,180
I was just curious because it 
sounded like you had a lot of 

933
00:53:29,260 --> 00:53:32,940
different things to potentially 
disclose and being rejected for 

934
00:53:32,940 --> 00:53:38,970
herpes for many of us, a lot of 
things to disclose, that's for 

935
00:53:38,970 --> 00:53:42,570
sure, yeah. 
So many of us are just like, you

936
00:53:42,570 --> 00:53:45,170
know, someone rejected us 
because we have herpes and 

937
00:53:45,170 --> 00:53:48,850
there's probably so much more to
it than that. 

938
00:53:48,890 --> 00:53:52,810
And I think that what you've 
shared is just given a little 

939
00:53:52,810 --> 00:53:57,170
bit of a reality check of other 
things that there are to add to 

940
00:53:57,170 --> 00:54:00,100
the list of. 
Things to have a discussion 

941
00:54:00,100 --> 00:54:03,340
about right So I don't 
exclusively have to tell 

942
00:54:03,340 --> 00:54:06,940
someone, hey, I have herpes, but
I also feel the need to share 

943
00:54:08,460 --> 00:54:11,380
lifestyle stuff. 
So right now I'm very focused on

944
00:54:11,380 --> 00:54:15,500
my physical health and this 
influences me, not drinking. 

945
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:20,540
So that kind of shuts down a lot
of activities for us to connect 

946
00:54:20,540 --> 00:54:22,700
and get to know each other 
Dating nights. 

947
00:54:23,340 --> 00:54:25,020
I'm also mindful of how I'm 
eating. 

948
00:54:25,020 --> 00:54:28,500
I have to cook a lot of my 
foods, so going out to eat. 

949
00:54:28,780 --> 00:54:30,380
Is something else that's off the
table. 

950
00:54:30,380 --> 00:54:34,140
So really all there is is like 
lifestyle, physical activity. 

951
00:54:34,140 --> 00:54:35,940
Do you want to do something 
outdoors? 

952
00:54:36,140 --> 00:54:38,540
Do you want to go someplace 
indoors? 

953
00:54:38,780 --> 00:54:42,180
Here are what our options are. 
So a lot of options seem limited

954
00:54:42,460 --> 00:54:46,260
based on these things. 
And we talked about having an 

955
00:54:46,260 --> 00:54:49,340
identity crisis. 
But working through that and 

956
00:54:49,340 --> 00:54:51,700
being able to open up to people 
and be vulnerable with them and 

957
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:55,620
share, hey, here's where I'm at,
here's what's going on with me. 

958
00:54:55,620 --> 00:54:57,380
Do you accept this? 
Yes or no? 

959
00:54:58,070 --> 00:55:01,430
And to be rejected for, you 
know, something like a herpes 

960
00:55:01,430 --> 00:55:06,430
diagnosis. 
I think that is so out of your 

961
00:55:06,430 --> 00:55:12,070
control that it feels like being
able to like being rejected for 

962
00:55:12,070 --> 00:55:17,470
having financial situation be 
less than desirable. 

963
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:20,700
Like that would hit a lot harder
because that is something as 

964
00:55:20,700 --> 00:55:23,140
they control, right? 
I'm just using that as an 

965
00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:26,820
example just to give people some
type of a take away, some 

966
00:55:26,820 --> 00:55:32,860
perspective to take away as they
go into their daytoday life, as 

967
00:55:32,860 --> 00:55:35,820
they go into dating and they 
start thinking about or vetting 

968
00:55:35,860 --> 00:55:39,140
other potential partners. 
You know you might have herpes, 

969
00:55:39,140 --> 00:55:42,780
but what about this other person
in their situation, right. 

970
00:55:42,780 --> 00:55:44,220
They've got something. 
They've got something to 

971
00:55:44,220 --> 00:55:47,140
disclose. 
Everyone has something and and 

972
00:55:47,140 --> 00:55:54,580
if I can also just add like it's
it's not about levels of I don't

973
00:55:54,580 --> 00:55:57,900
want to use, I don't want to use
the word promiscuous because 

974
00:55:57,940 --> 00:56:02,260
it's it's not sex positive. 
But it's it's not about the 

975
00:56:02,260 --> 00:56:07,840
amount of sex someone has or 
doesn't have because like herpes

976
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:12,320
can happen as as as I know the 
first, the very first time you 

977
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,960
engage in it. 
So it can happen to anyone, 

978
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:20,520
anywhere and and and once you 
get a diagnosis, I mean what it 

979
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:21,920
is. 
What's this? 

980
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,560
The statistic is still one in 
four. 

981
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,200
Yeah, one in four people. 
Have it. 

982
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:29,720
I don't. 
I don't look at that. 

983
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:32,680
I don't look at that at all. 
I think. 

984
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,920
I think there is. 
I think it is something like 

985
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,000
that, that it's like one in four
people are either either have it

986
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,400
and know about it or are a 
carrier for it, which is why it 

987
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:47,680
gets so widely spread. 
Oh, 87% of people who have 

988
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,800
herpes don't know that they have
it. 

989
00:56:50,340 --> 00:56:51,820
OK. 
So that's a very useful 

990
00:56:51,820 --> 00:56:54,660
statistic, you know, and that's 
why, I mean, I'm sure this guy, 

991
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:57,180
like, I'm not getting him off 
the hook entirely, but just like

992
00:56:57,180 --> 00:57:01,580
I'm sure he didn't know if he, 
you know, maybe he did and that 

993
00:57:01,580 --> 00:57:04,460
would be really horrible of him.
But if he, if he didn't know, he

994
00:57:04,460 --> 00:57:06,260
didn't know. 
Now that doesn't take away the 

995
00:57:06,260 --> 00:57:07,620
fact that he should have used 
protection. 

996
00:57:07,620 --> 00:57:09,820
OK. 
But but I'm not blaming him for 

997
00:57:09,820 --> 00:57:12,180
having something that he didn't 
know about. 

998
00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:16,260
I'm blaming him for not, you 
know, not treating me in a 

999
00:57:16,260 --> 00:57:18,100
consensual manner. 
That's a different story. 

1000
00:57:18,940 --> 00:57:22,680
So all I would say to anyone 
listening who's going through 

1001
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:27,560
stuff is that, you know a herpes
diagnosis isn't it really is not

1002
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,200
the end of the world. 
And it feels like it. 

1003
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,400
It really does, but it is not. 
And there's so many. 

1004
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,160
It's just it's just been part of
my life and it's been it's been 

1005
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,600
challenging like it's it's 
actually been really difficult 

1006
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,520
and probably because I've never 
had you know quote UN quote life

1007
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:49,280
before herpes in a in in sort of
a sexual like a fully realized 

1008
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,200
adult. 
I would think that that makes 

1009
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,120
things easier for you, though, 
because this is all you've 

1010
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,080
known. 
So with nothing to compare it 

1011
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:01,920
to, there's no moments of grief 
to have to let go of who you 

1012
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,520
used to be and who you thought 
you would be based on that. 

1013
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,640
You only had this point of 
reference, yeah, but there's 

1014
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,760
been a lot of grief for the life
that I didn't get to have. 

1015
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,040
I didn't get to have a quote, UN
quote, normal sex life. 

1016
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,200
I didn't have to make 
disclosures to, you know, I 

1017
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,360
wouldn't have had to make a 
disclosure to every single 

1018
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,560
sexual partner. 
I would have talked about safe 

1019
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,160
sex. 
And as long as we use a condom, 

1020
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,240
great, like let's do whatever, 
like let's have a one night 

1021
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,040
stand. 
But I didn't. 

1022
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,040
I had so much grief over the 
life that I didn't get to have. 

1023
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,160
This is what I knew. 
This is what it is. 

1024
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,800
I'm going to work through it. 
It sucks, but here it is. 

1025
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,960
You know, facts are in front of 
me and I can, I can work around 

1026
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,200
them. 
But yeah, there was a lot of 

1027
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,240
grief for me. 
It was. 

1028
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,720
It was about what I didn't get 
to have as opposed to what I did

1029
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,190
have. 
OK. 

1030
00:58:49,110 --> 00:58:51,830
Yeah. 
Thank you so much for sharing as

1031
00:58:51,830 --> 00:58:55,510
much as you have and for 
clarifying that point for you as

1032
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:59,030
well. 
Do you want the opportunity to 

1033
00:58:59,070 --> 00:59:04,070
just shout out 0 Proof Nation? 
Like how can people connect with

1034
00:59:04,070 --> 00:59:06,550
you? 
Who do you want to connect with?

1035
00:59:06,550 --> 00:59:10,630
Why do you want to connect? 
Like, I'll let you do that and 

1036
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:13,430
then I'll send us out of here. 
OK. 

1037
00:59:13,790 --> 00:59:16,270
Well, thanks, Courtney. 
Yeah, so real quick. 

1038
00:59:16,270 --> 00:59:23,430
Hi everyone. 
So 0 proof nation is a sorry 0 

1039
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:27,310
proof Nation is a global 
resource hub for all things non 

1040
00:59:27,310 --> 00:59:32,030
alcoholic ranging from boost 
free bars to nonalk beverages to

1041
00:59:32,110 --> 00:59:36,870
bottle shops to industry news. 
I just launched a global map of 

1042
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:40,110
alcohol free only establishments
across the world and there are 

1043
00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:44,070
close to 300 individual places 
that are solely alcohol free 

1044
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:50,270
ranging from Poland to Australia
to Chile and Mexico to you know 

1045
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:53,270
all sorts of places in North 
America and the UK. 

1046
00:59:54,350 --> 00:59:58,060
And I once again care about non 
elk so much because of my own 

1047
00:59:58,060 --> 00:59:59,460
story, because of my own 
sobriety. 

1048
00:59:59,460 --> 01:00:02,940
So I want to connect with with 
anyone who's interested in 

1049
01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:05,900
learning more about the non elk 
world. 

1050
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:10,220
I'm happy to give you tons of of
my own, like product 

1051
01:00:10,220 --> 01:00:13,980
recommendations. 
And you know, more importantly, 

1052
01:00:13,980 --> 01:00:17,580
I'm happy to connect with anyone
who, you know wants to. 

1053
01:00:18,530 --> 01:00:21,410
Wants to connect with me over my
story and and if anyone needs 

1054
01:00:21,410 --> 01:00:23,810
any help. 
I'm not a licensed professional,

1055
01:00:24,210 --> 01:00:26,210
so I'm not going to give you 
licensed help, but I can 

1056
01:00:26,210 --> 01:00:30,650
certainly provide my perspective
of what it's like to to date 

1057
01:00:30,650 --> 01:00:34,810
with herpes for the better part 
of my adult life and to date 

1058
01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:36,570
sober. 
So I got both of those check 

1059
01:00:36,570 --> 01:00:38,650
check and I'll have the check 
now. 

1060
01:00:40,690 --> 01:00:42,490
Alright and where can people 
find you? 

1061
01:00:44,030 --> 01:00:47,470
Well on the gram depends on on 
what you want. 

1062
01:00:47,470 --> 01:00:51,390
But if you just go to my main 
page which is at we are sober, 

1063
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:56,790
it has the links to my to my 
other to my other Instagrams. 

1064
01:00:56,790 --> 01:01:00,590
And if you're ever in the DC 
area you can you can look up 

1065
01:01:00,590 --> 01:01:03,670
booze free in DC as well which 
is which is a travel guide to 

1066
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:08,710
the to the area from an on out 
perspective and yeah just find 

1067
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:10,670
me on the gram, that's where I 
am. 

1068
01:01:11,350 --> 01:01:12,870
Oh my God, that's a horrible 
rhyme. 

1069
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:16,390
All right. 
Well, thank you so much for your

1070
01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:18,310
time. 
If I can get you to stay on for 

1071
01:01:18,310 --> 01:01:22,230
a little bit after we're I close
out the outro, we'll just kind 

1072
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:24,510
of check in about how to podcast
one for you and I can add 

1073
01:01:24,510 --> 01:01:25,910
whatever disclaimers you would 
like. 

1074
01:01:26,940 --> 01:01:28,340
Sounds good. 
Thanks so much. 

1075
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:31,020
Yeah, all right. 
That concludes this episode of 

1076
01:01:31,020 --> 01:01:32,620
something positive for positive 
people. 

1077
01:01:32,620 --> 01:01:35,780
Please, like, rate, review, 
share, subscribe to this podcast

1078
01:01:36,020 --> 01:01:37,740
if you have not already. 
Please go to 

1079
01:01:37,740 --> 01:01:44,740
www.spfpp.org/survey and take 
the survey. 

1080
01:01:44,740 --> 01:01:47,140
For people who are living with 
herpes, this information is 

1081
01:01:47,140 --> 01:01:50,620
critical in helping us. 
Being able to continue to do 

1082
01:01:50,620 --> 01:01:52,780
what it is or we're doing here 
is something positive. 

1083
01:01:53,350 --> 01:01:57,870
Expanding on consistent, 
accurate resources that people 

1084
01:01:57,870 --> 01:02:01,110
are able to utilize for their 
discussions around sexual 

1085
01:02:01,110 --> 01:02:04,670
health, as well as being able to
inform people who might not have

1086
01:02:04,670 --> 01:02:08,710
herpes so that they can be a 
little bit more aware of the 

1087
01:02:08,710 --> 01:02:13,230
reality of it. 
Monday evenings at 6:00 PM 

1088
01:02:13,230 --> 01:02:17,080
Pacific Time. 
Patreon subscribers which This 

1089
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:18,880
is why you need to be a Patreon 
subscriber. 

1090
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,200
Have access to the Weekly Herpes
Support group. 

1091
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,200
It's a virtual call with Patreon
subscribers. 

1092
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,920
If you are interested in being a
part of that, visit 

1093
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:34,800
patreon.com/S PFPP and you can 
join for as little as $5 a month

1094
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:40,760
and then the 4th support group 
every month is going to or the 

1095
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,550
4th. 
Monday of every month is going 

1096
01:02:44,550 --> 01:02:48,350
to be open to the general 
public, so if you're on Patreon 

1097
01:02:48,350 --> 01:02:51,230
you get weekly access. 
If you are not on Patreon then 

1098
01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:56,790
you can join the group on the 
4th Monday of the month and that

1099
01:02:56,790 --> 01:03:00,110
will be on the events tab of the
Something Positive for Positive 

1100
01:03:00,110 --> 01:03:01,700
People. 
Website. 

1101
01:03:01,700 --> 01:03:07,180
So just visit www.spfpp.org and 
you can go to the events tab and

1102
01:03:07,180 --> 01:03:10,820
you'll see the link and the time
and the day and information for 

1103
01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:12,300
any events that we have going 
on. 

1104
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:15,020
And if you go there now, you'll 
see that we're in the process of

1105
01:03:15,420 --> 01:03:18,620
creating a virtual conference 
for something positive for 

1106
01:03:18,620 --> 01:03:23,420
positive people. 
That will be May 23rd, 2024, so 

1107
01:03:23,420 --> 01:03:25,500
please mark your calendar so 
that you can attend. 

1108
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:29,540
It'll be an all day virtual 
conference where we will present

1109
01:03:29,540 --> 01:03:33,540
the survey data that we have as 
well as have some speakers there

1110
01:03:33,540 --> 01:03:36,620
to talk a little bit about 
stigma herpes and get you some 

1111
01:03:36,620 --> 01:03:40,580
resources that you can that'll 
be a little bit more dependable 

1112
01:03:41,020 --> 01:03:44,580
than what you might have scoured
the Internet for. 

1113
01:03:44,860 --> 01:03:47,900
All right, that's it. 
That's all I got. 

1114
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,280
I look forward to y'all being 
here for future episodes, and I 

1115
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,440
look forward to hearing from 
anyone who wants to be a podcast

1116
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:55,640
guest. 
Or if you want to make a 

1117
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,600
donation, you can reach out to 
me directly. 

1118
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,880
Again, this is a nonprofit 
organization and we run off 

1119
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,120
donations. 
We run off of grants and funding

1120
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,480
and no active grants right now. 
So yeah, these donations are 

1121
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,240
really keeping us afloat. 
Till next time.