Welcome to Something Positive for Positive People.
I'm Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive
People is a podcast featuring interviews with people or
couples where I sit with them and have a conversation with
them about their experiences with sexually transmitted
infection. Today I have Sean with me.
Sean is how old 30? 7. 37 Damn dude you look like
like 30. I know, isn't it great?
That good jeans, my man, Good jeans.
And Sean, where you from? New York.
Oh, you're from New York? Yeah.
Like Western New York? OK, I thought you moved to New
York from somewhere. Did you live somewhere else?
I lived. In I moved out to North Carolina
for a little. Bit.
Oh, OK. OK.
What were you in North Carolina for?
I'm from new. York.
I was in North Carolina for like four months.
Oh. OK, you're just living out
there. And yeah.
It's just kind of bouncing around, checking out the world,
you know? Yeah, yeah, alright.
And your ethnicity, OK. And then your relationship
status, single sexual preference.
Divorce. Single.
Whatever. Alright, And then sexual
preference. Females.
OK, alright, I think that covered all the stuff.
I haven't done one of those episodes in a while.
Like I was just telling you earlier, cause a lot of the
episodes that I've done last month we're all sending around
like STUSTD Awareness month. So I spoke with a lot of like
health organizations and people who were like more so promoting
safer sex. So I, it's nice to be able to
have one of these just like conversations.
So if I get sidetracked or anything, apologize to the
listeners because it's just exciting to be able to have
these genuine conversations. And there's so much more to
these than just, I have herpes, I have HIV, whatever.
And then like going through the experiences around it because
there's so much that you can take away from listening to the
various guests. Everyone has their own unique
journey and we're using this as more so a platform for them to
express what their experiences were, to help guide people who
are living with the condition through their own journey, as
well as encourage people who may not be living with an SEI to be
more open and accepting to those who are.
So Sean, what is your condition? I've HSB 2 genital herpes.
All right. And how long were you diagnosed?
I was I. Was 19 I believe.
It's been about 18 years. Oh, damn.
And when you were diagnosed? When when you were diagnosed,
what? Tell us about what was going on
in that time? Were you in the relationship?
I was in a new relationship at the time.
I had moved in with a girl relatively quickly and you know,
everything was the 2nd girl I had ever slept with.
You know, everything was all peachy.
I come out of my long term high school relationship and met this
girl and you know, life just seemed great.
I was working in a restaurant. I was just kind of chilling in
life, you know, young 19 being stupid.
But the girl that I was dating was seeing other people that I
didn't know about. And you know, one day I just
woke up with this lovely gift on me so.
You know, and let me ask you this, because people for some
reason seem to think that they can look at someone and tell
whether or not they have herpes or if they're nasty or whatever.
She obviously didn't give off this vibe, but did she look like
someone who had herpes? Whatever that means.
No, and it's you know what kills me when people say that because,
you know, there's, I actually just had this conversation a
couple weeks ago with somebody that, you know, somebody was
messing, one of my friends was messing around on Tinder and I
just, I made a joke and I was like, yo, you're going to end up
with herpes. And and she's like, well, no,
the, the guy that I'm going to see doesn't look like the type
of person. And I said I was like, really?
So what does that type of person look like?
She said, well, you know, you can just, you can just kind of
tell. And I'm like, can you really?
She's like, yeah, you're like, you know, you just kind of get
that sense from somebody like you.
He just, he doesn't seem like he has it.
Tell me you told her. Please.
I didn't tell her at the time there was some extenuating
circumstances with another friend of mine.
So I didn't, I didn't help myself at that point.
But it was really a perfect learning opportunity that I wish
I had because I've, I've outed myself so many times throughout
life and it doesn't bother me. But when it's going to affect
somebody else, I tend to stay away from it.
So yeah. But yeah, it's a, you know, I
was seeing, I was seeing someone at the time for a little bit
that was a mutual friend of ours.
So I didn't want to put her out there like that.
I understand. Yeah.
So when you were diagnosed, you said you were seeing someone.
How did you? Well, you woke up with the gift.
What was next? Yeah, obviously.
Brandon. Urgent Care.
What's? That did you run the urgent
care? No, no, I didn't.
You know, it was really weird. My initial outbreak was small.
I wasn't quite sure what it was. I had a feeling what it was at
the time, you know, I tried telling myself, you know, it's
just maybe I just, you know, in the spot that it was, It wasn't
like I could have just caught myself on something.
But I tried telling myself, you know, maybe I just caught myself
on something. Zipped it up or something?
Yeah, walk past the chainsaw, two blows or something.
But no, it was, you know, I get, I see the spot and I'm like,
God, this is no big deal. You know, I'm, it could be her
because it could be anything. I'm like, I'm just going to go
to the doctor and get tested. The girl I was seeing at the
time didn't say anything about it.
She didn't seem to find it to be a big deal whatsoever.
Thought, you know, I went and got tested, went to the doctor.
I, it was my first checkup ever. You know, I was young and kind
of irresponsible. I didn't really, I guess not
irresponsible. I was my second girl I'd ever
been with. But you know, I I hadn't been
tested. For anything before that.
Oh, OK. And she which I, you know, we're
throw this out there to be responsible in life, you
definitely should be getting tested regularly.
You know, there's a lot of people, a lot of the way people
live their lives in the world today.
It's definitely a good idea to get tested regularly.
But anyways, so I went to the doctor, I got tested and I got,
I'll never forget it was Tuesday morning.
I got a call at about 8:00 in the morning.
I must have been lucky caller number one, that they reached
out to that day first thing in the morning.
And, you know, they just called me up and they said, hey, is
this shot? I said, yeah, there's so and so
from men's and Women's Health clinic.
And, you know, they said you tested positive for HSV 2, which
is genital herpes. And they're like, if you want to
come in and talk about it, you know, they were so nonchalant
about it. If you want to come in and talk
about it, you know, we have counselors here and we have
information for you. And I was just like, you know, I
was still waking up. I'm like what?
Hang up the phone, go back to sleep, wake up.
Like, did I just have a dream? Yeah.
But, you know, they were, they explained it to me and my
initial reaction was anger. You know, I was pretty pissed.
And it's the second partner, too.
That's what really sucks. Yeah.
And. That's a crazy like I wasn't out
sleeping around. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't
being a man whore or anything. I wasn't going out.
I didn't party at the time. I didn't drink, I didn't do any
drugs. You know, I was a 19 year old
tattooed punk kid. I loved concerts.
I loved going out and having fun with my friends.
And, you know, I was pretty bit of a hopeless romantic, but you
know, I wasn't. If you put people in a
stereotype with people who have STD's and herpes and whatnot,
everybody thinks it's just these dirty people that are out
sleeping around. It's not the case.
Yeah, You know, I was just a kid that was with my second partner
that I was dating. Mm hmm.
And do you know if she knew that she had it?
You know, she swore when I confronted her about it, she
swore that it didn't come from her.
Of course, naturally, you know, I had caught her cheating on me.
I mean, basically, almost like actually caught her cheating on
me physically. Might as well have.
But it was a she didn't admit it, but at the same time she had
no problem continuing to sleep with me even while I had the
outbreak. Yeah.
And that kind of tells me like, oh, well, I have it too.
Like that's what I would make the assumption.
She knows that I have it and has no concern with sleeping with me
while I have an active outbreak. She knew she had it.
Yeah, so. You know.
And in hindsight, you know, I, I had heard lots of things and,
you know, I didn't, for lack of better terms, maybe I should
have. I don't want to say listen to my
friend because it's not that you shouldn't give somebody a chance
that has something like that. But I would have been a little
more careful and I would have talked to her about it first.
But you know, given her nature, I don't think she was a very
honest person anyways, so. Yeah.
And in hindsight, you would say that she wasn't a very honest
person. But like at the moment,
obviously you don't necessarily know that.
Yeah, in the moment, yeah. You don't know.
You know, in the moment, most people in general in the world,
you want to see the good of people.
You know, you don't go out looking for the worst people you
can find, right? You know, most people want to
find the good of people and they want to trust the person they're
with. And, you know, unfortunately,
herpes is a it's a tough topic to talk about for a lot of
people. And it shouldn't be because we
have sex, but we don't talk about sex often.
And then SC is are just like an inevitable possibility when you
get it, when you are having sex, and even more likely when you
aren't necessarily communicating about sexual health because I
mean, I said this in a number of episodes.
I can't remember how many girls I've asked, do you have an STD?
When's the last time you were tested?
I can't remember. Like my method of testing prior
to getting herpes, actually, even after getting herpes was
didn't when my previous partner went in for her annual women's
exam, did she call me and say she had an STI?
Like that was how I use my like that was my radar for whether or
not I had anything. And I know that that's been the
case with a lot of guys. Like, oh, she doesn't have
anything. I was the last person I slept
with, so I don't have anything. Because when I did go in to get
tested, they put that Q-tip in my Dick hole and I was like,
that is not pleasant at all. But.
It's it's just, I've never had that experience.
I did when I exit when I tested positive for herpes and I've
heard this is pretty common as well.
I actually tested positive for chlamydia at the same time.
So, you know, that was it. It was kind of a double whammy
at the time. But you know, back then it
wasn't any big deal. I know nowadays I think they
what they give you like a series of antibiotics or whatever.
But back then they just gave you like this horrible tasting
powdered drink and you drink it and the chlamydia is supposed to
be gone within like 24 to 48 hours.
But you know, it was, it was kind of a double whammy.
But, you know, I just like I do with a lot of things in life, I
took it in stride and I went through a bit of an angry
period. But it wasn't, you know, I know
a lot of people struggle with their initial diagnosis.
Yeah. I've been in contact with a lot
of people, and I've helped counsel people through their
initial diagnosis. And I know the struggle that
people go through. Yeah.
You know, everything from anger to just pure rage to depression
to, you know, severe anxiety and all kind of worlds together
sometimes. And, you know, I was fortunate
enough, I guess maybe because of my outlook on life in general, I
didn't experience a lot of that other than the anger.
But you know, I it was an interesting time period to say
the least. So when you I never.
Thought my dating life was over but I knew it was going to be
challenging moving forward. Yeah, when you you.
So you continued an intimate relationship with this girl
after diagnosis, right? Yeah, which was, you know.
I mean, is it stupid or is it just easy and convenient?
Like it's convenient to not have the talk.
It's convenient to well, you know, we don't not to say that
you didn't use condoms, but this is just a thought that would
happen. Like, oh, well, now we don't
have to use condoms. As long as you're on birth
control, we don't have anything to worry about.
So we both have this. It is what it is.
Like we can get what we need from each other.
So what? So obviously that may be what
continued the relationship, but ultimately what ended it.
What ultimately ended it was me finally taking a step back and
realizing that I didn't want to be with someone that was going
to be cheating constantly. You know, we had, you know, the,
the cheating more so than the herpes was the, the catalyst for
our relationship falling down. And, you know, it did take a
while because, you know, like you said, I guess I've, I've
thought about it several times and we did stay together for a
little while on and off and I mainly because I was convenient.
You know, obviously we both had it.
And she still to this day wouldn't admit having it, but
she obviously had it. Yeah.
But you know, it's, it does feel almost convenient.
And when you're when you're a decent person and you know,
you're going to have to move forward in life explaining this
to people and, you know, having this talk anytime you want to be
with somebody, whether it's anything from a fling to a
relationship to one night stand, whatever, you know, you should
responsibly have this talk with people.
And I was like, shit, if I can just keep this girl, like I
don't have to have this talk. Yeah, no matter.
What misery I was going through at the time, but at at that
point I hadn't had to talk with anybody.
So I didn't realize how many different aspects to having that
talk there are and how many different ways it can go.
And you know, so she was convenient for a while, I guess,
to say the. So when you finally ended that,
I mean, what else was happening around your life, too?
So at this point, you were, we're gonna say early 20s when
you ended the relationship. Yeah, was, I mean it went on for
I probably relationship probably finally ended like within the
next year. You know, we had, we had still
hooked up a couple times after that, but the relationship
officially ended like within the next year.
So I was probably 20, 20 years old.
So what gave you the courage to decide to end that relationship
and just move on? So you got tired of the
cheating, you were fed up with it.
You leave that and now you go out into the world where now you
have to have that uncomfortable conversation.
Yeah, You know, I didn't really think, honestly, I didn't think
much about it initially. You know, I knew I had to have
conversations, but I was also back then the resources aged
myself here. The resources weren't quite as
available as far as online goes and whatnot.
And I, I took my doctor at the word when I went in and had my
counseling done and they told me that I couldn't pass on HSV if I
didn't have an active outbreak, which is extremely wrong.
So I the first relationship after her, you know, I made the
mistake of not disclosing and it was, it was terrible.
It was a horrible experience in my life because I listening to
my doctor, we all want to believe that our doctors telling
us, yeah, you know, I just I look forward with my life and I
was like, I don't have an outbreak so I don't have to tell
this girl. It sucked because I did end up
passing on and it was absolutely heart wrenching experience for
me. The girl still to this day won't
talk to me. And I, I wouldn't be able to
talk. I wouldn't be able to explain it
to her even if I tried. You know, she just thought that
I was some guy with herpes that was out there spreading around,
and that wasn't the case. You know, I was just
misinformed. And that experience led me to
start educating myself. Yeah, in depths, from every
possible angle I can imagine, educating myself about the
experience and the disease and the, you know, everything to do
with it. We want to we should be able to
take our doctor's word. I mean, you didn't do anything
wrong from that perspective. It's like I'm informed now by an
A well informed, educated source more so than myself.
And like you said, at that point in time, resources were limited.
Like you couldn't just Google. Is this doctor telling me the
truth about herpes, how it's spread and da, da, da.
So that was the most reliable resource that you had at that
point in time. And unfortunately, even to this
day, there are people who are still misinformed.
There are people who still get that kind of conversation.
Oh, well, as long as I'm wearing a condom, I can't spread it.
And that's what, you know, one person that I was dating, we
talked about this and she was like, oh, well, if you wear a
condom, I can't get it right. It's like that's not.
There's a little bit more to it than that.
I mean you wanna put on a full body condom make.
Yeah, we gotta like not touch physically it's yeah, if I if I
were a. Condom and don't touch you at
all then yeah, you're not gonna get it.
Yeah, sit over in the corner with a condom on yourself,
alright? We just watch each other.
Let's do that. But anyway, so moving on past
your what was the what was the next relationship like after
that? So you find out, oh now it is
possible to spread herpes even with condom use.
You begin to educate yourself using the resources that were
available. So at that point, like how did
it affect you moving forward knowing oh shit now I that was
wrong. Now I definitely have to tell
people. Moving forward was interesting
because I experienced my first and really my only rejection to
this debate. Man, good for you it.
Was weird because I learned from this, you know, I was very
nonchalant in my in my disclosing I'd started seeing
this girl, we'd seen each other for about two weeks, which back
then seemed like a lifetime. You know, we've seen each other
for like 2 weeks and she rumors I was very open when I found
out. I mean, I was very, very open
with all my friends and of course rumors started spreading
around the town and came from a very small town.
So all of a sudden everybody around my town knew and you
know, my friends knew, you know, quote friends.
And they ended up pulling this girl aside and one these two
girls that I was friends with pulled her aside at a party one
night. I'd gone to the restroom or
something. They pulled her aside and they
were like, hey, you don't want to be with him.
He's dirty. And I found that out a couple
days later, you know, the part I came back out, I met up with her
and like, the party continued on like, no big deal.
You know, to that point, all we had really done was kids.
We hadn't done anything else. And over a couple of weeks, you
know, the I kept on hearing people talking about it or
hearing about people talking about me and this girl.
And someone was like one of my friends, we had a mutual friend,
one of my friends pulled me aside one night.
He's like, hey, just so you know, like everybody's telling
her that you have this and they're like, so you, you have
to have this conversation with her.
And I'm like, I know. And I'm like, that's like, we
haven't slept together. Like I'm going to have this
conversation on my own time. People, I don't care what other
people say. They can say what they want.
Yeah, you know, it's my own. I don't know if dignity is the
word I want to use. It's my it's my choice to tell
people what I want to tell people and to be responsible
about it. And she when we were at a party
and I was like, hey, we need to go for a walk and let's, let's
have a talk. So we go walking down the road.
I lived out in the country and we're just walking, having this
nice conversation. I said, listen, I said, I know a
lot of people have been telling me a lot of stuff about me.
And she's stopping right there. And she's like, oh, no, no, I
know. And she's like, you know, I've,
I've had people tell me stuff that you have this, you already
have that. And she's like, but I know it's
not true. So, you know, I just kind of
ignore it. And I was like, well, about
that. Yeah, I'm like, so, so I
disclosed her, you know, I told her I'm like, listen, I do have
herpes. It's HSV 2.
And I'm like, I completely understand if you don't want to
continue this relationship. I said that's why I haven't
tried to pursue anything further sexually with you.
But, you know, if you want to talk about it, I would love to
talk about it. You know, if you want to just
sit down and chat, we can chat. Or if you just want information
and, you know, this ends here, then it ends here.
You know, it's, you know, the the fact of the matter isn't
disclosing is a lot of us that have it like we wouldn't have
chosen to get this if we had the choice.
Yeah. And some of us do get it by
choice. You know, we meet somebody that
we absolutely fall in love with. And, you know, this isn't a big
deal. So, you know, you kind of accept
that it comes along with it. But her way of dealing with it,
you know, she was young as well. I was, I think I was 20 still
maybe 21. And she was, she was 18 or 19.
After we finished out that night, we walked back to the
party. We had a great night together.
And she told me that she very much wanted to continue seeing
me. She didn't have a problem with
it. And then the next, from that
next morning forward, I'd never heard from her again, Never
heard a word, completely ghosted, as the cool kids would
say nowadays. But yeah, it was, it was an
interesting experience. It was hard to handle at the
time because it was, it was a form of rejection.
It was about as pleasant to rejection, I guess, as you can
get. I mean, aside from somebody
who's saying, hey, I'm not cool with it, but I hope we can still
be friends. You know, she just chose to run
from that, which, yeah, that's her choice.
It is what it is. It wasn't like we were invested
in like a long relationship or anything, but it was an it was
an eye opener for me. And it also made me realize that
it was pretty easy to tell people.
I mean, it's it's difficult to build up the courage to do it.
But once you get past that first disclosure, you Start learning
how to speak to people about it. I learned that if you don't
approach it like it's the end of the world, people won't think
it's the end of the world. Yeah, that's a that's an
important. End of the world.
Like if you breakdown sobbing and you're like, I have this
disease, you know, people are gonna, they're gonna look at me
like, holy shit, this is what it's like to have herpes.
Yeah, like they don't. You can't make it seem like the
end of the world because that's what people are going to think.
And often times how we feel about it for ourselves, we we
want to disclose to other people so much sooner than we want to
disclose to ourselves. And until you can look yourself
in the mirror and say I have herpes and see how you really
feel about it, You really can't expect someone else to feel the
way you want them to feel about it.
If you don't feel that way. If you want someone to be warm
and accepting and understanding about it, and you have to be
warm and understanding to yourself and accepting of
yourself as to how that feels, what that means.
Because for everyone it means something different.
Some people get outbreaks once a month or have ongoing outbreaks.
Some people get outbreaks once and with obviously that affects
those two groups of people in various ways, completely
different. But at the same time, you have
to really develop an understanding for what having
herpes means for yourself and then what it could potentially
mean for the person you plan on disclosing to.
And then you have to also evaluate the relationship.
You know, what is it that you possibly want out of this?
What do you do? You know, what you want is going
to be a short term thing, long term thing.
But regardless, like how just as you said, how we presented to
the other person is going to really influence the way that
they feel about it. Now, they could have a strong
opinion on it and have one of their core values, as I will not
date someone with an STD. And if that's the case, and you
know that that person isn't for you at all, because nine times
out of 10, well, 10 times out of 10, the person or people you're
supposed to be with or want to be with either also have it or
they're accepting of it. So someone who's not accepting
of it, you're just not supposed to be with.
Yeah. It's very, it's extremely true.
And you know, I can't drive home.
You said something about looking in the mirror there and it's
something that I've talked about in support groups and you know,
I've, I've brought it up multiple times.
I highly encourage people that have been diagnosed to become
comfortable with the word herpes.
You know, so many people shy away from even saying it, even
when they get, even when they just closer, like, Oh, well, I
have, you know, they try to skirt around it.
Well, I have HSV here. I have HSV too.
And people like, well, what's that?
And then you say the word herpes and they're like, oh, like I've
talked to medical professionals before that didn't know what
HSV. My last check up at the doctor,
I went in and they're, they were like, well, do you have anything
not on the list 'cause HSV wasn't on the list.
And I'm like, why have HSV too? And my doctor looked at me and
she's like, what's that? I'm like, are you kidding me?
I'm like, I, oh, it was, it was an interesting experience.
I like messing with people a little bit too.
I, I have some fun with it. But but yeah, I encourage people
to sit down, take some time, you know, lock yourself in a closet
with a little tiny light in a mirror if you want to.
Yeah, kind of like this where I'm kind of like where I'm
recording from, right? And it's, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm speaking very openly right now.
I'm in a new apartment. It's, I was, I felt the
butterflies going through my stomach with the nervous
butterflies, 'cause I'm in like a studio apt.
I know my neighbors can hear me. I'm in a building with six other
apartments. I know people can hear me in the
hallway. My windows are wide open to the
street. I know people outside can hear
me talking. And, you know, I'm still 18
years later, I go through my own levels of comfort and working
through my levels of comfort. Yeah.
And but I encourage people to to look in a mirror and say the
phrase, I have herpes. And you're going to sit there
and you're going to laugh and you're going to cry and you're
going to get angry and you're just go run through the
emotions. Because if you want someone else
to be comfortable with it, you have to be comfortable with it.
You cannot expect someone to be comfortable with something that
you're not comfortable with yourself.
Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's the
key to disclosing, that's the key itself is developing an
understanding for how you feel about it.
And that feeling is going to constantly change.
You're going to constantly grow until you get to a point of
acceptance where you're just like, OK, you know this honestly
in the grand scheme of things and everything that goes on in
life is almost irrelevant. You know, outside of if you want
to hook up now it's a little more challenging to hook up if
you want a long term partner. And now you have to go through
more of a filtering process and set up boundaries.
But all of this really comes down to how you look at
yourself, how you present yourself to the world.
Like that's what I often talk about what herpes did for me.
It was a fucking speed bump. Like it was a reason for me to
slow down and evaluate other things that were going on in my
life. OK, it didn't hit me right away
upon diagnosis, but after almost waking up a few years later and
having to go back out into the dating world, it's like, OK,
well wait, why is dating a priority for me when I don't
have my shit together? How about we start getting our
shit together? And then as I began to get my
shit together, looking at different issues that I had to
work through and the things that I've been ignoring that were
easily, I could easily deflect them and point the finger at
something else or point the finger at herpes.
But ultimately what herpes did was shine a light on those
things that I needed to work on. And then once those got things
got worked on, herpes purpose, I guess kind of just diminished.
And so now I know why these are the things that I need to
constantly be working on about myself.
And herpes is just kind of in the back burner now, yeah.
It's important to build up a confidence in other areas of
your life because I mean, we can all there.
I've seen people, you know, talk about herpes and talk about how
it doesn't bother them and this and I think, I think a lot of
people put up this wall. You know, I to me, it's a little
alarming if somebody truly isn't bothered by it because it is
something serious, that it's a serious part of your life.
It is a lifelong serious part of your life.
And it's something to be taken into consideration because you
have to be respectful of other people, you know, But some
people may not. Some people may not take it the
same way. Like some people are literally
suicidal over it. Some people are just like, yeah,
I mean, I got herpes and now I have to talk to people.
So. And some people like myself, use
humor to I mean, I've, I've made jokes in restaurants with
waitresses, you know, I've, I've had some pretty funny
experiences with disclosing to complete strangers, but.
Yeah, I think one of the funniest things that's happened
to me was like someone left a full drink at a table and I was
talking to my friends. I was like, I should drink that.
I mean I already got herpes and everyone just dies laughing.
I had, I was in a restaurant one day and I, I dropped a French
fry on the floor. Now, I mean, I worked in
construction for years and I mean, I'm not afraid to put a
French fry from the floor in my mouth.
And I've, I've probably had far worse in my mouth, but it's so I
pick up this French fry, but the waitress is walking back for a
table and the two friends I was sitting with at the time, they
knew that I had herpes. So the waitress is walking back
over to the table and I go to the fry in my mouth and she
looks at me. She goes, oh, you're not going
to eat that, are you? And I looked at her and I said,
well, it depends. Does your restaurant floor have
herpes? She goes, EW, I hope not.
And I looked at her. I said, yeah, fuck it, I already
do it. And I stuck the fries off.
She just looks. She looks at me completely
dumbfounded. Yeah.
And I just look at her. And I said I'm serious.
I really do. I'm like, can I get another
drink, please? She just walked away with this
look on her face. And she comes back over and she
was like, were you serious about that?
And I'm like, yeah, I was serious.
She's like, she gave me a me too.
She's like, so do I And I was like, oh shit.
Which happens a lot more often than people would think.
And it's just like the everyone's so scared to tell
people. It's like if you were to pick
statistically speaking, I forget what it is, it's one in six has
one type, one in five, another and one in four.
And the location that the statistics are all over the
place. So I don't like the reference
that much. But if you, let's say to be
safe, say to seven people, I have herpes, at least one of
them is going to also have herpes, whether they know it or
not. Had they gotten tested for
herpes, One of those seven people at least is going to be
able to come back to you and say I have it too.
Yeah, it's, it's wild. And like you said, you know, the
statistics really are all over the place.
But I can tell you in the last year alone, I have disclosed to
three people that were just friends of mine, just a general
conversation, three of which came back with me too.
You know, there's the discrepancy, people, people
don't seem to believe that HSV 1 or oral herpes or cold sores or
whatever you want to call it is the same.
But you know, having herpes is having herpes.
You know, you have herpes or you don't.
But and I also disclosed to two partners that both came back
with me toos. So it was interesting.
I'm I'm basically batting 100 for the last year with people
coming back with a me too story. Yeah.
But and, you know, that also comes down to a lot of people
think that if we have herpes, we have to find somebody else that
has it. There's some people that are
very, very vehement about staying within the community,
dating and whatever else you choose to do sexually, staying
in the community. There's some people that almost
make it a crusade to only date people that don't have it
because they want to proved. Maybe they want to prove to
themselves that they can still beat me somebody that Herbie
isn't going to run their life. That's one that I haven't heard.
Can you talk a little bit more about that one?
I have, I've heard, I've heard several people that are very,
you know, I won't date in the community.
I don't want somebody to accept me simply because I have herpes,
because I have it as well. That that makes sense.
So it's almost like I don't want to settle for a just a pool of
people who I know are only who accept me for this aspect and
may not look at the other parts of me.
Yeah. OK.
So I think that's exactly what it comes out.
And I think some of it also is kind of like a conquest for some
people. They want to.
Convert someone. Almost convert someone, they
want somebody to be willing to convert for them.
You know, they want to feel that worse yeah.
And you know, that comes down to a very important aspect of this
closing and trying to find somebody when you have herpes
is, you know, we're we're so hell bent on looking for
somebody that's going to accept us and we forget that we have to
find somebody that we are going to accept.
Yes, I love that you said that. I love that you said that.
There's so many different aspects of life and yeah, herpes
can be a controlling aspect in many ways.
But you could meet somebody, you can have herpes and you can meet
somebody just close to them and you, they may accept you.
But like, say you're a female and you meet a guy and they
accept you. They may use it as a control.
They might be the biggest piece of crap in the world.
Yeah. Just because they accept you
doesn't mean that you're supposed to be with.
Them and then, like you said, you have to realize that you're
accepting these people like you're putting up standards and
boundaries and expectations of others to meet your standards.
So if you can't you, you, you can't go into it with I hope
this person expects me because then you give them the power
like you have the power of choice and the people that you
bring into your life, the people you allow to come in deeper into
your life, you give them you know you, you're you're allowing
that to happen. So it's important for you to
understand like, OK, this is what I want, this is what I'm
looking for and this is what this is what's going to happen
going forward. And then just be be the person
you should be for that. You know what I mean by that is
just like accepting yourself, like that's what it comes down
to. You know you have an
understanding for what it means for you and then you project
that onto the other person do. You really you have to be
confident who you are and what you deserve out of life.
You can't just accept somebody because they accept you.
Yeah, and it's like. You know, you have to have
standards. You have to have expectations
out of people you're looking for.
You know, there's any one of us could go probably find 100
people. If you just walk the streets of
New York City tomorrow and disclose to every single person,
you can probably find 100 people that that will accept you for
it, whether they have it or not. But they could be the biggest
pieces of garbage in the world. They could be horrible people,
you know. So it's not about somebody just
accepting you. You have to value your own
worth. And you have to realize that
while this is a controlling aspect of life, it is, I mean,
it's it's a serious part of life.
It doesn't have to control your life.
Mm Hmm. But it definitely dictates
certain aspects of life. Yeah.
And the way you live. But you have to, you have to
realize your own worth. And you can't just look for
somebody to accept you because you're worth so much more than
that. You're worth so much more than
just some random person accepting you because you have
herpes. And there's so many other
aspects of life, just like you said, like there's, you know,
herpes is just a small a, a part of life And it's, there's so
many other things to focus on when you're looking at a person.
Like, is there not more to you? This is something that I've
talked to someone about recently because they were like, who's
going to accept me for this? And it's like, well, don't you
have other things to be accepted for?
Like, is this where all your value is and yourself as a
confident sexual being? Like, what about your
intelligence? What about the other things that
you have going on? What about your values, your
goals? What about your contributions to
the world? You know, these are the things
that we should focus on in determining who a person is or
who we are presenting ourselves to be.
More so than I have herpes. Oh, OK.
You're OK with that. Now let me bring you.
Let me present to you everything else that I am.
Yeah. You know, it's interesting.
I had, you know, I have, well, I will say obviously because we
haven't even talked about this yet, but you know, I moved on.
I moved forward in life after, you know, the dating
experiences, whatnot. And I eventually ended up
meeting who is now my ex-wife. And you know, she was very
accepting of it. She was completely accepting of
it and that was a huge thing. It was, it was big to me.
My dogs scratched it making some weird, but she, you know, she
was super accepting of it and I thought that was awesome.
And we had a great relationship for a couple of years.
But, you know, we ended up getting divorced due to, you
know, she was unfaithful. And so it turns out, you know,
I, I was so excited to be accepted by this person who I,
you know, I eventually fell in love with.
But again, she turned out to be not, not a very good person.
And I got thrown back into the dating world at the age of what
was I, 3433 or 34. You know, very unexpectedly,
when you get married, you don't expect to get divorced, right?
So getting thrown back out into the dating world and looking for
someone, it was, it was almost like starting over for me.
It was a new, it was a learning experience.
I'd gone, you know, seven years without having to worry about
disclosing to anybody or talking to anybody about this unless I
chose to because I was educating.
I didn't have to worry about the romantic aspect of it and
finding a partner. And I had to learn how to accept
myself all over again. And I went through, you know,
obviously, a tough time in life with the divorce.
But I started, like we talked about earlier, you start
building your confidence in other areas of life and
realizing that we have so much more to offer.
And we have sometimes we have to come to a realization as to what
we have to offer. But I started taking care of
myself very almost religiously, physically, you know, fitness
and nutrition and which I have noticed has helps diminish the
outbreaks a tremendous amount for me.
Start eating broccoli. What's that broccoli, that
broccoli, some super greens, those kale shakes.
But anyways, you know, and then I briefly dated somebody
probably two years ago now. I've been divorced for just over
three. And I tried getting back into
the dating game. And the 1st girl that I tried
getting serious with, I went out on a date with and I disclosed
for the first night. We just went out for coffee and
I disclosed to her and she had no idea what it was, what I was
talking about, but she was very interested to learn more.
You know, she didn't reject it. She didn't.
We ended up dating for a couple of months, but this is another
part here where what I'm getting at is learning your worth and
what you're willing to accept in life.
Because she struggled with me having it, she was constantly
worried about getting it. It was almost this like
emotional back and forth, this game back and forth.
Not that she was meaning to play one.
I'm sure she was very conflicted.
Like we would sleep together and then a couple days later, she'd
be worried like, Oh my God, am I going to have this now?
And then the next day she'd calm down and she's like, oh, you
know, I like you for who you are.
It's not a big deal. And then, you know, we'd sleep
together again. And, you know, a couple weeks
later, she'd freak out again. And after a couple of months of
this back and forth, I finally sat her down.
And I was like, listen, you know, I can't do this.
Like, if we're going to date, you have to be OK with the fact
that this could happen. This could become a part of your
life. And this back and forth, like I
like you, but I can't handle this emotional back and forth
like constantly. I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
feel terrible now if you end up with it and you're not
emotionally prepared for this. And essentially what you had to
ask her is are you OK with getting herpes and she's not
able to say yes or no. And the.
Thing and sometimes you can tell people too.
Like, even if they say yes, you can tell if they really are OK
with it. And it did take me, you know, we
dated for a little while and we, the back and forth made me
realize that she wasn't OK with it.
She was not prepared. She was not ready mentally for
it. And, you know, I had to end that
relationship before it got to that point.
Yeah. And, you know, she went and got
tested after we got done with the relationship and she didn't.
She did not test positive for it, which I was thankful for.
She was thankful for it. We remain good friends to the
state. Good.
But it was, you know, it was a tumultuous time, and it was part
of my learning to accept it again.
That's such a that's such an important point too, because you
know, there's, there's so many responses to that as well,
someone being accepting and then, you know, you know, on an
intuitive level, like you can sense that they're not OK with
it, but then been like, OK, well, they said they were OK
with it. So that's what I'm going with.
And then just clinging on to that relationship, as unhealthy
as it can be, because had you guys been in the relationship,
how much of yourself would you be losing or sacrificing as a
result of that mental drain that she's putting on you by being so
back and forth about it? Having to constantly console her
about it or reassure her or like provide her with something
that's not true, which is she wants to know that she can't get
it. And you're not willing to
compromise your and tell your intelligence, your integrity as
a decent human being to tell her like you're not going to lie to
her and be like, well, you know, we're going to do these things
and you're not going to get it. So it's important for people to
understand and realize that when you have that feeling, 9 times
out of 10, you really should go with it, that that person may
not be OK with it. And sometimes we have to make
the hard decision. We have to be selfless in being
willing to end an intimate relationship and giving up on
one of our needs or something that it is that we want.
In order to protect someone else's, you know, their mental
state, their emotional state and their their health.
We also have to be mindful of that.
Yeah. Yeah, we do.
We have to be very mindful of that.
And, you know, we used the phrase earlier, you know, being
about a decent human being and you have to, you know, any
decent human being is going to look at it that way.
And it's, it can be tough. I mean, I'm not saying someone's
not decent because they don't approach it like that.
You know, what I'm saying is you really have to look within
yourself and you like passing it on to somebody.
You know, you have to live with that as well for the rest of
your life. Like whether your relationship
works out or not, it's something you have to be prepared for.
I don't mean you have to live with it like it's some horrible,
horrible thing, but you, you have to be prepared for that
because you we all remember how we feel when we first got
diagnosed or when we found out. And chances are that other,
someone else is feeling that exact same way, maybe worse, you
know, maybe better, depends on how they take it.
But you know, when there are people in this world that just
don't see it as a big deal at all, they just don't care, which
again, that that kind of frightens me in a way, but
that's me. That's my experience with it.
That's my take on it. So.
Yeah, Well, man, dude, we've been surprisingly, it's been 43
minutes now, we've been talking. So this is great.
This is great. Seriously, I'd like to leave us
with, I'd like to leave the listeners with maybe one take
away for you. In your experience, what has
been the most useful tool in your recovery through the
emotional process? Like what's helped you become
accepting and get to the place where you are right now About
you're openly talking to others about it.
You're counseling people who are newly diagnosed and giving them
advice. So, you know, I know what you're
saying because we both talked to newly diagnosed people.
So for a newly diagnosed person, like, what do you encourage them
to do more than anything in order to get to the place where
you are now, being as open and accepting of it and being able
to talk about it to other people?
Yeah. When by say it, when I say it I
mean herpes. You.
Know my my biggest piece of voice that I would give anybody
and it's something that I just recently experienced in the last
couple years myself is reach out to your resources.
You know, there are there's support communities available
and I'm sure Courtney, you're going to touch on that and you
have touched on that in the past many times.
But you know, I lived for 16 years going at this on my own,
seven of which I was in a relationship.
But until I found these sport communities, which inspired me
and empowered me to be able to speak about it the way that I do
now. You know, up until then, I had
always used humor, always used humor to talk with people about
it, which is kind of my that's my thing in life.
That's what I do with everything in life.
I turn everything into humor, sometimes for deflection,
sometimes for because, but I'll reach out to resources, find
other people like Courtney and myself that have herpes that
have experience with it. You know, you don't.
I'm, I would never tell somebody, don't go to your
doctor, but talk speaking with people that are experiencing and
living the experience is so much different than sitting in a
doctor's office or, you know, reading information on Google.
Please don't direct people to Google for God's sake, because
it's you just don't want to be like, hey, go, go look at Google
herpes and you'll find out what it's all about.
That's a bad choice, terrible. Talk with people, find the
support communities. There's so many people like us
that are willing to speak with you, that are willing to give
you our experiences and help you through your own experiences and
help you realize that this is not, it's not the end of life.
It's not the end of dating. It's not.
You can still have a family, you can still get married.
You can still have kids. You can, you know, you can still
live. Yeah, you're going to live
through this. First of all, you're going to.
Live through this. Yeah.
You know, some people feel like they're not going to.
And you know, it's I, I will say that I was very thankful to be
as open as I was about this, even from the early stages,
because somebody very close to me got diagnosed as well.
And she was borderline suicidal over it.
And I was so very thankful that she knew that I had it because
she came to me. And think about how many people
are not you know who? How many people are so close yet
don't know this one thing? And it's also a barrier for a
deeper connection as well. So you 2 have more than likely
gotten very close since being able to share that intimate,
vulnerable detail about your life.
Yeah, it's, it's brought me closer to a lot of my friends.
It's also made me feel, I don't know, I'm not accepted.
It's made me feel just a lot more accepting of myself.
I've been able to be myself around people because, you know,
we all know walking around with this, we always wonder, you
know, like if I'm walking down the street and I'm like, oh man,
that girl over there is smoking hot, but she probably doesn't
want herpes. So.
So, you know, and that is, it's still my first thought in my
head. But then I said, I think about
it and I'm like, wait a minute. Like she might already have it
or maybe she would be cool with it, who knows?
You know, it's made me realize that so many people are
accepting of it. So many people just don't care,
from friends to family to, you know, and you'll have those
people that you don't want in your life because they do care,
not because they do care, but because they're just mean about
it. It's going to happen.
People that like to be mean about everything in life.
And you know what? Even if it's a close family
member or friend, you. One of the most important
phrases I learned from another aspect of my life was learn to
you. It's OK to love people.
With some people, you have to love at a distance.
Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.
You. Know you keep them not even in
arm's length. Some people you need to love
from another state. But you know it's it's OK to
love someone. Sometimes you just have to love
at a distance. Love them over e-mail they love.
Them over. E-mail.
Yeah. Well, that's all I got for you,
man. Are there any closing remarks
that you have or anything that you want to cover that we didn't
get to speak on? Not really.
Not that I can think of off offhand, I just want people to
know that this is, you know, it's, it's, it's part of life,
you know, something that just become comfortable with it.
Reach out to people and do your best and you know, grieve, allow
yourself to grieve and allow yourself to learn and educate
yourself. And you know, you can become,
you may not become like Courtney or I sit here being able to talk
about it as openly and maybe you will, but educate yourself is
the most important thing and surround yourself with people
that do understand because it's it's not the end of the world.
It's well, for me, it's become actually kind of a beautiful
part of life. So.
Yeah, I'm sitting here. Talking with Courtney right now
and I wouldn't be, and any of you listening right now wouldn't
be listening to me if I didn't have herpes.
So it's a pleasure to be speaking and I, I truly
appreciate Courtney asking me to be on this.
So I appreciate you brother. I really do.
I appreciate you taking the time, man.
I've seen like a lot of your like positive pose and the
positivity. And one of the reasons that I'm
continuing to do this podcast is because a lot of people get to
the point where you're at and having been so accepting of it,
go on. You know, you living your life,
you've got your business going, you've got, you know, you're
dating, relationships are in order.
And we just don't hear from those people like you're living
life. You're at the place where
someone who's newly diagnosed is struggling to get to.
And that's the story that they need to hear.
And everyone who's been on this podcast so far, it's a journey.
And they can either be directed to and guided to these
experiences that give them hope. And they see that there's
someone like them out there living a life that they possibly
had, they possibly would be going for, or that they didn't
even know was a possibility. Because all we see are the
terrible pictures. When you Google, you see the
statistics you see, you just see the worst of everything.
And we don't necessarily hear from the people who've gone on
in life to be at the positive place that they are.
And so thank you for doing what you're doing and posting that
positivity to a lot of the support groups and just being a
resource for people to connect with and just being a resource
in general, man. So thank you.
Yeah. Certainly not.
I'm happy to do it. I'm more than happy to do it.
One last little piece of voice I would use.
If you're if you go to a doctor that shames you for this, find a
new Doctor. Oh yes, I've heard that story a
number of times. Two doctors shaming patients for
this and just, you know, we, we don't deserve that kind of
treatment. For people, I don't need this
shit. Bye.
I'll take I'll take my health insurance elsewhere.
All right guys, this concludes this episode of Something
Positive for Positive people. I can be found on social media
at H on my chest. That's Instagram, Twitter,
Tumblr and Reddit. If you want to be on the
podcast, I encourage you to reach out.
Just shoot me a message. We can do this anonymously.
All I do is call you via Facebook.
We look at each other. I record the audio only.
It's a very easy process. I'm finding it to be rather
therapeutic to some people who come on and share they Some
people this has been the first time that they've been able to
talk about this. Others have gotten to a place
where they feel like they just needed to get it off of their
chest. There have been episodes I
haven't even posted from people who just, you know, needed to
talk about it. They heard it and they got what
they needed out of it. So I want to continue to make
this an ongoing positive resource for people who are
newly diagnosed to use, for people who are struggling with
their diagnosis and for people who have not been diagnosed just
as an education tool to learn what it's like to have herpes,
if they're considering dating someone who has it or if they
just want to become more informed about it.
So thank you all for continuing to grow this podcast and make it
what it's becoming. Thank, thank you for leaving the
likes of the shares, the comments, the reviews, all of
that is helping this podcast get into the ears of the people who
need it most and connected to the resources that they need in
order to move through the emotional stages of their
diagnosis. So thank you all for listening.
Till next time, stay positive.