1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,240 Hello, welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,640 As you can see, you are connecting with the quarters of 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:13,280 Courtney this fine afternoon. No, I'm just kidding. 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,600 Welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,480 I'm Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,160 People is A5O1C3 nonprofit organization supporting people 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,400 navigating herpes stigma, as well as advocating for better 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,800 sexual Health Communication education between patients and 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,600 healthcare providers, among educators, to people who are in 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,000 the process of learning, as well as the general population. 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,680 Just teaching people how to get comfortable with talking about 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,680 their sexual health needs so that we can experience more 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:42,960 pleasure. I don't think I ever said that 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,200 before. Couple notes. 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,920 So this podcast is being recorded right before the big 16 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:54,960 episode 400 drop as we celebrate 8 more accurately, 8 1/2 years 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,840 of running the Something Positive for Positive People 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,720 podcast. If you're in New York City or 19 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,400 able to make it out to Brooklyn, NY, just come to the website. 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,120 You'll see it up. The event is December 12th, 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,320 2025. So if you listen to this years 22 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,920 from now, know that you missed it and you should have been 23 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,720 there because we singing karaoke, we celebrating. 24 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,640 And yeah, I'm going to bring the podcast to a close. 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,760 It felt like for a while I was just trying to squeeze that last 26 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,200 little bit of toothpaste out of the toothpaste tube. 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,240 And, yeah, getting to a place now where I've had a very 28 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,960 diverse range of conversations recorded for people to have a 29 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,920 different blueprint of how other people are navigating herpes 30 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,960 stigma has gotten us to this point. 31 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:40,680 And I'm so appreciative of everything that has been done so 32 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,760 far. I look, I feel really complete 33 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,760 and closing out, there's something positive for positive 34 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,920 people podcast at episode 400, especially transitioning into 35 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,040 doing more with the support groups, the community and the 36 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,120 simulations with for healthcare professionals and everyday 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,160 people. All right, so with that said, 38 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,840 this is my second to last podcast guest. 39 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,320 I got Lauren here with me. And Lauren, I'm going to let you 40 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,840 introduce yourself, how you want to be introduced and then just 41 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,600 share how we connected and what led you to reach out. 42 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,560 Awesome. I'm so honored to be in one of 43 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,240 the final episodes. My name is Lauren. 44 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,320 I'm based in Chicago. Super jealous that I can't go to 45 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:21,960 this New York event with karaoke. 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,080 Let's see, I'm originally from the outside of Boston, but I've 47 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,240 been in Chicago for the past decade and I work in the 48 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,240 nonprofit world as a project manager. 49 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:35,240 But on the side, I do storytelling as a pretty serious 50 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,600 passion and hobby, and I'm currently developing a one woman 51 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,280 show which I'll be performing in Chicago in February 2025 and 52 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,520 hopefully in many. Other oh, sorry. 2026. 53 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:47,840 Yeah, there you go for. True. 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,080 I can't believe it's the end of the year. 55 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,400 That would be amazing. I'm performing this show in the 56 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:57,240 past, yeah. In the past, yes, 2026. 57 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,640 And hopefully it will continue on for a while. 58 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:05,600 And yeah, how we connected. So it's funny, I actually DM Ed 59 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,440 Courtney on Instagram last night. 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,000 And it's crazy that we are talking on this podcast right 61 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,160 now. But Jolene Hernandez, who 62 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,880 developed the documentary No Shame in This Game, told me 63 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,040 about Courtney. And I saw you in the documentary 64 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,800 as well. And yeah, I was just looking to 65 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,360 connect with people in like this, like herpes advocacy space 66 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,760 as I'm putting together this show. 67 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,760 I did come to storytelling because of herpes, but it's 68 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,640 become so much more than that, just like herpes is, I'd say I I 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,360 think I've heard in one of your episodes, Courtney, how it's 70 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,480 kind of like a mirror for other things going on in your life. 71 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,960 But yeah, you, you looked confused. 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,400 I can explain more. So I was going through like a 73 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,520 really bad breakup because of herpes. 74 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,720 Someone rejected me and I decided to start telling 75 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 stories. But I've never done a 60 minute 76 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,040 show before, which is what's happening next year. 77 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,520 All right, so couple questions. One, yes, you reached out to me 78 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,400 yesterday and we are podcasting today. 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Let me tell you how things just fell into place because this has 80 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,200 been happening for me a lot lately. 81 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:19,000 And I think that it speaks to alignment intentionality where I 82 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,720 needed to record a podcast like a few days ago actually. 83 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,880 But I just with the timing and everything, I just got back from 84 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,320 the holidays on Monday and then I immediately had to get into 85 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,000 work to support groups and I've had the most chaotic work week 86 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,760 ever. And I still got to promote the 87 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,120 event, right? So I was like, I need to record 88 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,160 a podcast today. I know what the 400th episode is 89 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:44,920 going to be and what it's going to be about. 90 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,880 And then boom, I got that message. 91 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,000 So I was like, oh, this can work, but I need it because I I 92 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,600 have an interview Sunday. So I would have needed like a 93 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,320 fill in episode of some sort and I didn't have anything to talk 94 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,440 about. I was like, the last episode is 95 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,360 going to be it. And I didn't want to give that 96 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,640 away before it being the 400. And so you popping up when you 97 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,600 did just speaks to how things align and the way that they're 98 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,880 supposed to. So I, I just wanted to share 99 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,080 that with you here because I guess that means that here you 100 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,240 are being in alignment for yourself as you make the 101 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,560 transition into this one minute show or one minute show, this 102 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,280 one woman show for 60 minutes at that. 103 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,680 Yeah, it was meant to be. It was crazy. 104 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,320 When I first messaged you and I already saw you typing, I was 105 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,320 like, Oh my God, something's. Happening I when I don't have my 106 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:42,000 phone on do not disturb, if I do not respond to you right away, I 107 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,800 might miss it and just lose it. So I'm not the kind of person 108 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,360 like I might open it and then I got to unread it so that when I 109 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,560 do get back to it, I can get back to it. 110 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,280 But yeah, I, I'm glad that you were able to make yourself 111 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:56,880 available. And I know I know that you were 112 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,520 kind of going back and forth on whether or not to do the podcast 113 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,240 today. What was that for you? 114 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,080 Like, did you just have a lot of stuff going on, or were you up 115 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,320 in the air about wanting to Share your story? 116 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,080 Yeah, so today has been a really big day for me because I posted 117 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,840 on social media for the first time that I have herpes. 118 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:17,320 So it's like this will be a core memory. 119 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,400 Like December 5th, 2025 will be a big memory in my life, I'd 120 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,560 say. But I just so happened to have a 121 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:30,280 rehearsal tomorrow via Zoom with some an awesome performer I met 122 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,920 when I was in Rochester, NY. So I had to put my script 123 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,520 together. So that's what I've been doing 124 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,720 all day today and I was just worried about being able to get 125 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,040 as much progress as I wanted done, but thankfully I had a 126 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:48,320 really productive day. Yeah, OK, Well, I was wondering 127 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,120 if maybe you were nervous because I was sure. 128 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,760 Like, you know, I don't want to put you in this, in this, you 129 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,080 know, window. Because what happens for me is 130 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,200 that a lot of people when they get excited to the point where 131 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,920 they want to share their story or their experience with the 132 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,440 world, when the dopamine dies down, time passes. 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,520 They want to get a regular corporate job or something. 134 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,840 They they ask me to take the podcast down or they want to 135 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,880 just they regret having done it or something. 136 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,800 I don't know what it is, but I don't know, something about this 137 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,520 just seemed the line. It felt like, you know, the way 138 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,480 that you approached it was like it with some kind of 139 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,000 intentionality. So I want to speak to that. 140 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Like what made you want to share? 141 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:36,520 What made you want to make this show or or just put your story 142 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,960 out there in general? Yeah, it's such a good question. 143 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,800 And I in some ways I had a light bulb moment and in other ways it 144 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,640 was a slow, gradual process. But back to that rejection I was 145 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,480 talking about. That was in 2021, and that was 146 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,640 the moment when I hit rock bottom. 147 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,280 I thought this was like a recent rejection and maybe you were 148 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,520 like, oh. No. 149 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,720 So thankfully I'm not in that headspace where I'm like, screw 150 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,880 this. I was definitely in that for a 151 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,160 while. Yeah. 152 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:16,320 So in 2021, I was, I had been on like 5 dates with this amazing 153 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,280 guy who I thought was really perfect and he really liked me. 154 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,760 And I had disclosed to him though I didn't do it like in 155 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,840 the best practice way, you're not really supposed to do it 156 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,520 like when you're hooking up. But I did it in the very last 157 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,039 second because I was terrified. And he said he needed time to 158 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,159 think about it, which was totally fair. 159 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,039 But then 2 seconds later he said it's actually fine, like I just 160 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:43,360 really want to hook up with you. So we did, and I was like 161 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,480 celebrating in my head. And on the next date, like a few 162 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,840 days later, he completely pulled the rug from underneath me and 163 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,120 said his words were like, Lauren, you're honestly perfect. 164 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,040 But being intimate with my partner matters too much for me, 165 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,840 so I can't be with you. And that crushed me on a lot of 166 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,560 levels because it's like, you can't be intimate with me, but 167 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:07,280 like I'm being intimate and sharing my big secret with you. 168 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,080 Also, I was trying so hard to be perfect for him because I 169 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,160 thought if I could just be perfect, someone will accept me. 170 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,480 And he literally said I was perfect. 171 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,200 And it still wasn't enough. And for the longest time, it 172 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,880 made me feel really hopeless, like there's nothing I can do. 173 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,920 I'm just going to die alone. Like that's that. 174 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:32,480 And so anyway, maybe a month after that, I was like, I 175 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,040 actually can't handle all these emotions that I'm feeling like 176 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,120 I'm grieving so much. I'm grieving what I thought 177 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,360 would be with this guy. I'm also grieving just like any 178 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,720 like shot at like a beautiful love story that like I always 179 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,640 thought I would have. So it took me hitting rock 180 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,160 bottom for me to actually just Google like storytelling 181 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,040 workshop Chicago. And then I told like a 10 minute 182 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,200 story. So that was 2021. 183 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,240 That was the beginning of my storytelling career and I've 184 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,520 been telling stories ever since. And I saw a lot of people in the 185 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,880 storytelling community making these like one person shows that 186 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,600 were much longer, like 1 hours shows and they were more like 187 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,320 plays. And I thought, I have so much to 188 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,200 say about my herpes dating experience and like I'm always 189 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,080 trying to do too much. So I was like, I want to do 190 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,560 that. So yeah, I decided to do this 191 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,600 like a year ago all. Right. 192 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,600 So I want to come back to that. However, now I want to talk 193 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,800 about this perfection, this. You're perfect except for this. 194 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,480 And then you mentioned that you were trying to be perfect. 195 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,000 Was there any authenticity in your presentation to this? 196 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,040 Yeah, I think I've become really used to trying to be perfect, 197 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,160 even before I got herpes. Unfortunately, it's just like 198 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,000 what society pressures us to do. I played a lot of sports growing 199 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,920 up, so I feel like it was just reinforced in my brain, like you 200 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,200 can always be better. Outcomes are within your 201 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,120 control. So I applied that mindset to 202 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,520 dating and I was like, well, let me just keep muscling through 203 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,880 this. Like if I can just be like an 11 204 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,120 out of 10 for someone, it'll be fine. 205 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,560 So I don't think I did anything like out of alignment per SE, 206 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,360 but I was not fully present on these dates. 207 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,440 Like I was trying really hard to seem knowledgeable and all these 208 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,920 topics like. I also like Google. 209 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,960 Did you Google some of the things that he shared he's 210 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,520 interested in, like Google some of the anime he watches or 211 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,080 sports teams? And you're like, Oh yeah, you 212 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,280 know, I watched this show. I've seen a few episodes of 213 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:37,760 this. Totally. 214 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,400 Yeah, I remember like a really common question on dates was 215 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,160 like, what's something that you're like a nerd about? 216 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,160 And I was like, honestly, I I don't really nerd out about a 217 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,720 lot of things, which is actually really uncool these days. 218 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,160 Like it's cool to be like really steeped into something. 219 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,080 And I'm like, I'm actually just, I'm not really like that. 220 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,960 Like, I don't go deep into like this historical time of like 221 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,800 life or something or like into science or anime for, for your 222 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,600 example. So I felt like I was pretending 223 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,480 to have these like, deep passions in something, which is 224 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,840 ironic because I ended up getting a deep passion and 225 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,080 storytelling. But yeah, I felt this need to 226 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,320 like make some archetype of who I was, I guess. 227 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,240 Yeah. So your herpes diagnosis having 228 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,040 LED you to your passion and you've been doing this for four 229 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,160 years now. So you just stumbled in the 230 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,000 storytelling and is, is it a career or is it a how do we 231 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,040 differentiate? Is this your career? 232 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,920 Is this your passion? Is it a hobby? 233 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,760 Help me like understand what it is for you. 234 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,080 Right now, I call it a passion. I think it'll always be a 235 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,760 passion. I would love for it to be my 236 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,160 career but it's really hard to make money through storytelling. 237 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,920 I do have like big aspirations though after the show. 238 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,080 Like I want to have a YouTube channel and stuff like that but 239 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,600 I'm trying to be like laser focused on the February show, 240 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,720 making sure I get the story right instead of like thinking 241 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,480 about all these like business ideas. 242 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,760 So for now it's a passion but would love for it to be my 243 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:09,840 career all. Right. 244 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,120 I just wanted to speak on it properly without saying the 245 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,080 wrong things. So you stumbled into your 246 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,760 passion through this, and it was just your personal experience. 247 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,680 So it was that rejection that served as the catalyst for you 248 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,320 after a month to have hit rock bottom and be like, you know 249 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,280 what? This is what I'm doing. 250 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,600 I'm going to tell my story. And I'm wondering, like, did you 251 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,320 already know the power of storytelling? 252 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,680 Or was it something that you learned as you started to tell 253 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,560 your story? Yeah, I think a little bit of 254 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:45,440 both. I had known about the Moth 255 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,800 podcast, so I listen to stories a lot, never consider doing it 256 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,320 myself. And yeah, but it wasn't until 257 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,280 actually, like, saying the word herpes out loud at my first 258 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,640 storytelling workshop. And I realized, like, the world 259 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,840 didn't end when I said the word. And just seeing these, like, 260 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,760 warm faces looking at me like the storytelling community is 261 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,880 like, they're the kindest people you'll ever meet. 262 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:13,120 So yeah, I think just saying the word more out loud was really 263 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,120 powerful for me and, and helping me accept my situation. 264 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:21,800 And also writing is so helpful for processing emotions. 265 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,440 Yeah. So I every time I'm writing a 266 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,960 story, I'm basically like doing therapy to myself. 267 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,480 Like, I have all these revelations. 268 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,000 I remember that first story I told. 269 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,640 I by the time that I finished writing it, I developed so much 270 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,040 empathy for the person who gave me a herpes. 271 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,200 Weirdly enough, I think I went into the story pretty like angry 272 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,320 and I, by the time I finished writing it, I was like, we're 273 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,000 kind of living these like parallel lives. 274 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,120 Like I don't really know where he is right now, but I, he ended 275 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,960 up ghosting me when I texted him that I got herpes. 276 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,960 And I, that obviously left a really sour taste in my mouth. 277 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:07,360 But by writing the story, it made me I realize, like, he's 278 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,040 probably dealing with the stigma too. 279 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,760 Like the stigma is meant to scare us. 280 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,880 And it was that fear that probably led him to ghost me. 281 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,440 So yeah, I just, I felt this connection with him actually, 282 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,160 weirdly enough, even though I haven't really talked to him 283 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,360 since. It reminds me of that Alanis 284 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,600 Morissette video Hands Clean, where like you kind of see 285 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,600 what's happening with her and you kind of see like the 286 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,400 progression of him. I recently learned what that 287 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,440 song is about. And I was like, oh, I can't 288 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,680 unhear the song lyrics now, but I was just thinking about like 289 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,520 the where she is in life, where he is in life. 290 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,880 And I, I don't know who gave me herpes. 291 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,280 Like I don't even have like a speculation of it because all of 292 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,840 my partners that I asked at the time or the people that I've 293 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,920 been with all told me, no, they don't have it. 294 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,000 So, yeah, somebody could be lying. 295 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,080 But you know, I trust that people are giving me the 296 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,600 information that they have. And as I've moved forward 297 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,720 through this, I found that it was easier for me not knowing 298 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,720 where I got it from because I didn't have anybody to blame or 299 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,000 to create more resistance to me going through the healing 300 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,320 process. I wonder what that was like for 301 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,880 you. Like you had this person, you 302 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,400 know, that he ghosted you. What was the process of moving 303 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,640 through that like for you? It was a really big let down 304 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,320 because I had a big crush on this person. 305 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,960 I hadn't talked to him much. It was more like a crush from 306 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,000 afar. He was like the grade above me, 307 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,960 I think. So I had this like really high, 308 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,600 high of like, wow, I got to hook up with my crush. 309 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,640 Like that doesn't always happen. That's cool. 310 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,760 And then to finding out that I got herpes and I didn't even 311 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,280 know anything about herpes. I didn't know anyone who had it. 312 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:52,600 So yeah, but I actually forgot the question was it how was I? 313 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,720 Was I angry at him or something? Yeah, just really, like, what 314 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,360 was it like for you going through the healing process and 315 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,040 knowing who gave it to you? Because a lot of us have an 316 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,839 idea, but some of us don't know. And so I'm wondering what 317 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,160 without you, you know, giving away too much of your own 318 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,640 personal experience that you'd be telling, like, want to know 319 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,160 specifically about this? Like when you reached out, told 320 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,040 him and he ghosted you, what happened after that? 321 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,400 Because you mentioned the 2021 rejection was so hard for you, 322 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,400 but what was it about this person giving you herpes? 323 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,079 Like what did you experience with that? 324 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,880 Yeah, I honestly didn't resent him a ton because I, I knew 325 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,520 enough at that time to know that it's really random getting 326 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,360 herpes. And like most people who have it 327 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,400 don't even know they have it. So I did not blame him at all. 328 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:46,040 In the text that I sent him, I I pretty much assumed that he had 329 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,200 a cold sore and like didn't even realize that was herpes. 330 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,080 So I didn't have a lot of blame going his direction. 331 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,520 But the reason why I hit rock bottom so many years later 332 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,080 because when I got herpes, it was probably like 2014. 333 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,000 I was in a long term relationship in between those 334 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,080 two moments where I completely detached from herpes as like 335 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,560 part of my identity. I was dating this person for six 336 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,400 years. He didn't care that I had it. 337 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,680 It was a super like safe relationship. 338 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,800 Like I, I just felt so accepted and like it didn't matter. 339 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,000 I never had to think about it. And I was like, maybe I'll never 340 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,360 even have to think about herpes ever again in my life. 341 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,600 So it was only after we ended that relationship. 342 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,680 And by that time I was in my late 20s. 343 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:33,720 It was almost like I got herpes in my late 20s because that was 344 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,520 like the first time I really had a reckon with it. 345 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,920 And I was like relearning everything. 346 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,480 Like that's really when I was doing my like Googling about 347 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,040 herpes even though I got it so many years prior. 348 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,000 That makes sense. So it was you coming out of the 349 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,640 relationship. I hear that often, right? 350 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,520 You get into a relationship after your diagnosis and it's 351 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:53,960 like, Oh, yeah, this person accepts me. 352 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,840 And then later down the road for whatever reason is the 353 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,040 relationship doesn't work out and now you have to you have to 354 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,760 deal with it. It's like, oh, wait a minute, I 355 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,360 got to start telling people this again. 356 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,600 And then that's when we go down that that spiral, that rabbit 357 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,240 hole. What was it like for you getting 358 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,520 back into the dating world after such a long relationship now 359 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,400 with this herpes diagnosis? So it was very hard. 360 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,360 I had a mix of emotions. Part of me felt really excited 361 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,080 to go back out into the dating world. 362 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,520 I, I grew up watching Sex in the city because my mom would always 363 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,960 watch it. And I was like, oh, that's what 364 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,560 my life is going to be like. And I right when I got out of 365 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,760 that long relationship, I was like, I can finally like live 366 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,320 out my sex in the City dream. And then in the back of my mind 367 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,960 there was like this whisper like, well, you have herpes. 368 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,400 Like, can you even still do that? 369 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,360 So to be really honest, I didn't disclose with a few guys at 370 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:52,000 first. I, I rationalized it very hard. 371 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,840 I'm, I'm a overthinker. So I did a lot of research on 372 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,000 herpes and I also talked to like my doctor friends. 373 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,880 And I also saw that the stigma was like so alive. 374 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,640 And I thought to myself, I'm taking all these precautions. 375 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,560 I'm taking daily antivirals. I'm using condoms. 376 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:13,720 I'm making sure I don't have an outbreak before I hook up with 377 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,840 someone, and I know a lot of people out there don't even know 378 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,440 that they have it and are disclosing. 379 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,840 So I actually feel like a safer bet. 380 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,360 I don't believe this now, by the way, but this is what I was 381 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,600 telling myself. Like you, you tell yourself a 382 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,720 story that you want to hear. And I could not fathom like, 383 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,280 having to tell people about this during my time. 384 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,560 And I was trying to live out my Sex and the City dream. 385 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:40,080 So yeah, I had a few hookups where I did not tell the guys. 386 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,200 Thankfully I don't to my knowledge. 387 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,840 I didn't give it to anyone. But I did have a couple scares 388 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,720 actually. So because like when you hook up 389 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,560 with someone new, often times you can get an outbreak because 390 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,320 it's like new bacteria in your body. 391 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,200 So I remember like the day after one. 392 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,920 Of my hookups. Hey, hold on real quick. 393 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:02,200 You better tell these dudes rinse their mouth out, wash 394 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,360 their hands and and keep Yeah, just just do some do some 395 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:09,680 hygiene stuff. Yeah, for sure. 396 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,360 But I, yeah, I remember the day after one of my hookups, I got 397 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:18,640 an outbreak and I was like, oh shit, there's a chance that I 398 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,080 gave it to this guy and I haven't even told him that I 399 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,360 have herpes. And I spiraled so hard. 400 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,480 I remember Googling like, how long does it take to transmit 401 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,480 herpes to someone? And it's usually within 14 days 402 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,000 that it would show up. So I was, like, counting down 403 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,440 the days until that window would be over. 404 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,360 Like, I am so terrified. I didn't even make it the 14 405 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:40,680 days. I just told him. 406 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,480 And yeah, I actually had two experiences like this. 407 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,240 One of them, the guy was super chill about it. 408 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,560 And he was like, well, do you have an outbreak right now? 409 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,240 And by the time we had this conversation, I didn't. 410 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,720 And he was like, well, then it's OK. 411 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,840 Like, herpes is really common. And I was like, wow, what a 412 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,200 relief. Another guy because I guess you 413 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,760 need many times to learn from your mistakes. 414 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,680 He was not as chill about it and he was really nice actually. 415 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,640 But he ended up ending things with me because we were looking 416 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,040 for different things. But I imagine that either herpes 417 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,240 or me not telling him about herpes contributed to that. 418 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,480 So it was a terrible feeling. I felt really bad. 419 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,960 Like I always thought like I was a good person. 420 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,960 That's like, I'm not being a good person right now. 421 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,800 But like it's really, it just felt like a moral Gray area to 422 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,920 me with the stigma. And I was like, people with cold 423 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,080 sores aren't disclosing before they kiss someone. 424 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,480 Why do I have to do this? And that was like a major thing 425 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,720 that I learned through all of this is that fairness is not the 426 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,400 same thing as morality. Like just because it's not fair 427 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,360 that I have to disclose and people with cold sores aren't 428 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,000 doesn't mean that I shouldn't be doing it. 429 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:55,960 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. 430 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,520 I think that that's it's vulnerable to tell someone you 431 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,840 have herpes and then it's vulnerable to tell someone or 432 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,400 complete strangers like, hey, I've not gone about this in the 433 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,120 most ethical way. So I very much appreciate that. 434 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,480 And I wonder too, there was a question in my head to ask you 435 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,080 about that. You, you mentioned we need 436 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,240 multiple times to learn our mistakes. 437 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,520 And it was around then that I wanted to ask you, do you feel 438 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,840 like it was harder for you? Well, I guess maybe not like I'm 439 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,200 about to answer my own question, but was it harder for you to 440 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,680 receive the oh, it's OK, you know, everybody has it. 441 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,840 Like that's a person that you didn't tell. 442 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,240 And do you feel bad because hey, there's this great guy that had 443 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,480 this positive response. Damn. 444 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,320 I probably could have told him before and it would have been 445 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,920 fine. 1st is telling the other person and then him not being OK 446 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,640 with it later on after the fact. Like what? 447 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,320 What were some of the things that went through your head with 448 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,120 those two different responses? Yeah, I definitely felt that way 449 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,800 about the first one. I was, I was so relieved and 450 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,160 thankful. The second one, he said. 451 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,960 I wish you had told me before. And in my mind, I'm, I'm asking 452 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,840 myself, is that because you wouldn't have slept with me or 453 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,560 because you want to have this like foundation of honesty? 454 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,320 Because if it's the former, then like I kind of stand by not 455 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,640 telling you that that was my former voice saying that. 456 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, yeah, I really like 457 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,280 struggle with that. People are like, well, you 458 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,920 should tell the person, but it's like, is that because you're 459 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,960 going to reject me or just because you want to know? 460 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,600 Yeah. Are you, are you concerned about 461 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,880 people from your past finding out? 462 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,320 And then if these were people that you didn't tell and then 463 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,880 you are on this podcast or you do your show and they pop up and 464 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,680 they're like, you didn't tell me. 465 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:08,160 A little bit, yeah. Most, I mean, it's it was only a 466 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,800 handful of people who I didn't tell and they were like random 467 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,320 Hinge people. So I don't think I'll ever see 468 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,560 them again. And it was like we slept 469 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:22,200 together like a couple times. So yeah, I honestly don't feel 470 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,440 that worried just given that like so many people have herpes 471 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,400 and a lot of people don't disclose. 472 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,440 So it's I and I don't think I gave it to them or else it would 473 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,200 have come up when we were together. 474 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,560 So yeah, I think I feel OK. We'll see how I feel tomorrow. 475 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,520 And I know you had mentioned like people with cold sores or 476 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,400 HSV orally not sharing this with people before they kiss. 477 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,280 And there's so much to that. Like I, I still believe that 478 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,960 herpes should not be considered a sexually transmitted infection 479 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,080 because it's transmitted sensually. 480 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,720 You can get it without having intercourse. 481 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,080 You can get it without, even if you wear a condom, right? 482 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,160 So it's a skin, skin contact virus that can transmit to other 483 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,160 parts of the body as well. And I, I kind of stand by that, 484 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:20,640 that the way that we look at herpes isn't even about herpes 485 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,840 itself. It's about our relationship to 486 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,800 sex. The way that society views sex, 487 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,760 herpes has the stigma as a second hand impact of that. 488 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,880 And that's something that I stand by. 489 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:36,680 Yeah, that's super interesting. Yeah, I. 490 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,080 Think people. Are like, it also just has to do 491 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,600 with the risk in general. And I feel like this came up 492 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,360 during COVID when we realized how interconnected we are. 493 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,920 And it's like anytime you step out of your house, you're at 494 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,280 risk of something. Anytime you get into a car, 495 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,680 you're at risk of dying, like when you drink alcohol, stuff 496 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,280 like that. So I was just really shocked by 497 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,080 how scared people were about herpes given all the other risks 498 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,000 that people take in life. Yeah, 'cause so much of it is 499 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,720 about who's worth the risk, right? 500 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,880 Think about how many people you did or didn't wear a mask 501 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,320 around, which places you'd go to where you would or wouldn't wear 502 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,000 a mask, right? Like unconsciously, there's 503 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,400 these things that we're doing on a consistent basis where we're 504 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,080 assessing, OK, I have these rules, I have these boundaries, 505 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,080 I have these things in place. But for the right person, blank, 506 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,520 like all this shit goes out the window. 507 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,360 For the right person, people, however we want to see it. 508 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:41,160 And that's one of the things that I noticed for many of the 509 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,280 people that I talked to who now have herpes, is that that shit 510 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,560 goes out the window and people are like, oh, I should. 511 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,960 I knew I shouldn't have sex with this person or my intuition told 512 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,040 me and I didn't listen to it. And that's something that I 513 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,440 regularly try and get people to see and reconnect with. 514 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,880 It's that inner voice that maybe got shushed and then boom, we 515 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,600 get this herpes diagnosis. So we get herpes. 516 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,480 And now it's, I should have listened to my intuition. 517 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,680 And now we've got this thing that serves as a more tangible 518 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,720 copilot for our intuition because it guides us to if we're 519 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,160 having outbreaks, like if we're super stressed, if we're not 520 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,720 taking care of ourselves, right? And that's one of the ways that 521 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,200 we can view living with herpes. Now, a question I wanted to ask 522 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,200 you is what where are you from? I'm curious about like your 523 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,400 cultural background and upbringing in regards to sex. 524 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,520 Oh yeah, so I'm from outside of Boston, but ethnically I'm half 525 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,040 Chinese and then 1/4 Lebanese and like European, but I only 526 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,720 have one grandparent not from the US, so I'm pretty American. 527 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:55,920 But yeah, in terms of sex, like culturally, I didn't talk a lot 528 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,720 about sex growing up. I'd say I was definitely a late 529 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,720 bloomer. So I always thought it was 530 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,880 ironic that I got herpes out of everyone. 531 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,800 Like I didn't think I was like the most promiscuous person 532 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,160 ever, but that just shows how random it is. 533 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,400 But yeah, I just don't really remember talking about sex a lot 534 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,120 growing up. I I didn't, I'm not religious, 535 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,120 so I have no shame around sexually and I really don't have 536 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,760 any. I've never had shame around 537 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,680 herpes. It's actually something that's 538 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,480 come up a lot in my storytelling journey. 539 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,280 When I've told people I'm telling a story about herpes, 540 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,520 they're like, Lauren, that's so brave. 541 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,240 You're telling a story about shame. 542 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,080 I'm like, wait a second. I've never been ashamed. 543 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,160 I wait. You want to raise her? 544 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,440 Yeah, all. Right, I have to I if I don't 545 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,920 challenge you on this, I'm not a good podcaster. 546 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:46,880 Do it. Challenge me. 547 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,520 If you don't have shame, what kept you from telling people 548 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,800 that you didn't have that? You have herpes. 549 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,840 So I think shame is different from embarrassment. 550 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,600 I actually, I defined the word shame. 551 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,040 I looked it up and it's you feel bad about something you did. 552 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,320 It's tied to your actions. And I have no regrets about 553 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,720 having that one night stand in college. 554 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,400 I'm really proud of myself for going up to my crush. 555 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,280 I'm embarrassed to have her be where I was because of the 556 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,280 stigma that society puts on it. But I think it's random and 557 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,240 unlucky that I got it and that anyone else has it. 558 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:30,120 All right, I just had to ask because for me, when I got 559 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,560 diagnosed, I was relieved after I called the most recent 560 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,680 partners that I had and heard that they didn't have herpes 561 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,600 because I would have been embarrassed to have known as the 562 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,480 guy that's going around giving people herpes. 563 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,120 That was where embarrassment was and it landed for me. 564 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,040 So it's interesting to hear somebody else say that because 565 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,280 everyone else that many of the people that I speak to talk 566 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,640 about the shame. It's like, why didn't I didn't 567 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,480 do anything wrong? What is there to be a shame? 568 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,040 Unless you're in a religious sense, you did something wrong 569 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,240 in relation to God or you did something wrong in relation to 570 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,040 your upbringing of how sex was talked about. 571 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,560 And it's like you weren't supposed to do this thing that 572 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,280 you did. So yes, feel bad about the thing 573 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,040 that you did shame. But for me, it's just like 574 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,680 embarrassing to give it to someone you know, whether I know 575 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,600 or not, right? Like that would have been the 576 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,400 embarrassing thing for me. Totally, yeah. 577 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,560 And for me it was just embarrassing talking about sex 578 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,760 in general. Like I didn't want to have to 579 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,520 bring up herpes on 1/3 date or like in any other setting. 580 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,640 Like I just don't want to be talking about sex like that. 581 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,080 I think there's something to like early dating that's really 582 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,680 mysterious and fun and you don't even know where it's going to 583 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,360 lead, but you both kind of know where it's going to lead. 584 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,200 And I just felt like herpes took that out of the equation. 585 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,600 So that's something else that I mourned. 586 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,240 I was like, I don't want to be so like blatant like at the end 587 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,240 of our second date, by the way, I'm not sure if we're going to 588 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,960 have sex, but in case we do, let me just give you this quick sex 589 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,400 Ed talk. Like, no, I want to be like 590 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,400 mysterious and fun. So that was something that was 591 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,800 hard for me. So have you never seen 592 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,800 discussing your herpes status as something fun with partners? 593 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,920 I wouldn't say it's ever been fun for me. 594 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,200 It. Definitely got easier and has it 595 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,960 been fun for? You, yes, and I think part of it 596 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,920 is having gone and listened to, well, I'm in sex education, so 597 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,320 it's very normal to talk about sex and sexual health because 598 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,960 it's interconnected with pleasure. 599 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,600 The safer I feel with you, the more I can let loose, the more 600 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,560 you should feel safe and the more free we are to be able to 601 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,200 be with each other. Because if you are going into it 602 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,400 like in your heteronormative start to finish, go on a great 603 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,000 day. Hey, you want to come back to my 604 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,840 place? We don't talk about sex. 605 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,040 It just kind of happens or it's assumed and maybe I wear a 606 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,800 condom. Maybe I ask you if I need a 607 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,160 condom and then we perform the sex the way that it's scripted 608 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,760 or it's a all right, so I'm seeing this, you know, leaning 609 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,920 towards me wanting to continue our night together. 610 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,320 Would you want to come back to my place? 611 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,720 Yes, I would love that. All right, before we do that. 612 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,920 So sexual health is important to me. 613 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,320 This is how often I'm tested. I was last tested for these 614 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,000 things. I test positive for herpes. 615 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,280 What about you? And then boom, we had that 616 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,440 conversation. Or even if it's more like under 617 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,720 underneath that. I remember one time I was out 618 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,920 and I met someone out that night at like a skating rink or 619 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,440 something, and I just introduced myself. 620 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,520 Hi, I'm Courtney. And we ended up talking for a 621 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,240 while and I was interested in hooking up. 622 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,720 And so I was like, yeah, so what's up? 623 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,560 And she was like, you don't want to sleep with me. 624 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,680 I have herpes. And this is the first time this 625 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,640 has ever happened to me where someone tells me that they have 626 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,240 it first. And this is like out in the 627 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,480 wild. I fucked with her. 628 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,120 I was like, doesn't everybody have herpes like that? 629 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,840 She had no idea what I did. I was just like, it is what it 630 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:17,920 is. And I made that fun. 631 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,800 It was just something interesting about that space 632 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,719 between me or her, like having told me this very vulnerable 633 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,679 thing that I know is a vulnerable thing. 634 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,000 I know, like the emotional tornadoes that are happening in 635 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,800 a person's head, about how the other person is receiving it. 636 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,040 And for me to have been in that place, it was just fun. 637 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,400 So I eventually told her she was like, you asshole, why did you 638 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,520 tell me earlier? But in a playful way. 639 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,280 But yeah, it's it's fun because it's also wrapped up in here are 640 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,080 the things that, you know, I see I want to do with you or I see 641 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,040 us doing together, right? And you can speak to those 642 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:01,640 things and let it be woven in with the safety stuff as you 643 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,760 talk about what turns you on, as you talk about your boundaries, 644 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,640 how you like to be communicated with during sex or how you like 645 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,160 to be touched during sex, how you don't like to be touched, 646 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,040 right? These are the things that take 647 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,440 away that there's often misfires in the first time that you maybe 648 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,280 have sex sex with someone. And I think that it can make for 649 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,800 a super healthy, playful, fun and secure hookup. 650 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,080 Yeah. No, I can totally see that and I 651 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,400 think I did. I got much better at disclosing 652 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,520 by the end of it. Alright. 653 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,840 I got, I got to, I got to say this. 654 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,000 So we don't use the word disclosing here. 655 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,160 We use the word disgusting, right? 656 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,800 Disgusting. Yeah, Well, OK, one, we're not 657 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,520 signing legal documents, right? On the other hand, it's 658 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,720 disclosing is I have something to tell you. 659 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,400 Discussing is we're engaging in a conversation. 660 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,360 So it's not, I have to tell you I have herpes. 661 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,440 It's we need to talk about our sexual health, right. 662 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,080 So it's not a confession, it's a conversation. 663 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,640 It's not a disclosure, it's a discussion. 664 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,720 So I ain't mean to cut you off. I just. 665 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,760 No, no, I love that shift. Yeah. 666 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,760 I feel like I shifted to discussions once I was like more 667 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,080 comfortable with talking about herpes and sex in general. 668 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,360 But I was still using the word disclosure as of 2 seconds ago. 669 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,760 So thank you. But yeah, so I'm in a 670 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,560 relationship now, but, and I feel like back when I was 671 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,800 discussing this, I actually, I lost my train of thought. 672 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,120 But something I was going to say earlier is that I feel like 673 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,920 there's a a gender thing that's in my mind. 674 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,600 It's not necessarily right. It's just gender norms, which is 675 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,760 that women are usually like the submissive one. 676 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,560 We're not the one to be like super direct. 677 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,920 We're the ones to be like sought after. 678 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,480 And that doesn't really align with like initiating a 679 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,920 conversation about sex. And it's something I'm pretty 680 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,680 torn about because being somewhat obsessed with Sex and 681 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,080 the City, especially the Samantha character, she goes 682 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,320 after what she wants. And I feel like if she had 683 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:13,240 herpes, she probably did have herpes, that she would totally 684 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,000 just, like, bring up these conversations. 685 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,680 And I feel like her character is something I wanted to embody for 686 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,800 a long time, just like this empowered, confident woman. 687 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,120 And it's just the discomfort that comes with like shifting 688 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,560 into like a new personality, I guess. 689 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,760 So I really, I love the idea of making it a fun conversation, 690 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,000 bringing it up like before it needs to happen. 691 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,960 But there is some sort of like mysterious part that I still 692 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:48,640 grieve, if I'm being honest. Yeah, there's two questions I 693 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,600 have. I know the first one is really 694 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,240 in relation to your partner, your relationship that you're in 695 00:37:55,240 --> 00:38:01,360 now and what his thoughts are or their thoughts are on you being 696 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,280 open about your herpes status. I want to come back to that. 697 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,080 The other thing was Sex and City. 698 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,440 It was good. It was such a good question. 699 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,000 Let's start there and see if it comes back. 700 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,280 Was it about like being direct in gender norms? 701 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,640 Making the 1st. Thank you. 702 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,200 Yeah. So it sucks because on one hand 703 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,920 that's the case. But men, we are not given the 704 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,760 tools that we need, especially men who date women to talk about 705 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,360 sex and sexual health. When you go even into sexual 706 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,800 health related content, it's all geared towards gay men because 707 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,240 it's HIV prevention. How often do we hear like even 708 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,000 when we look at sex toys, sex toys are marketed to women. 709 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,840 What's the male equivalent of sex toys or pleasure products, 710 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,440 right? There's no, there's nothing that 711 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:59,200 ties to our pleasure that is so outright and we're not marketed 712 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,240 to and how to communicate about this. 713 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:08,120 So the burden of the conversation even being had does 714 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,040 in fact go on to women. And then you got the idea of if 715 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,360 you're bringing it up, then like, oh, you must not be a pure 716 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,520 or good woman or you're promiscuous because you're 717 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,280 initiating these conversations or it can even look 718 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,800 emasculating. But a lot of us just don't know 719 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,160 to initiate the conversation or do we know how? 720 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,680 And because of a lot of assumptions and media that 721 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,560 speaks to men the way that it does in regards to sex and what 722 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,000 we learned from porn is to perform, there's not much that's 723 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,240 like, hey, here's how to be vulnerable. 724 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,800 Here's what intimacy is. So that that that was just 725 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,040 something that I wanted to speak to Absolutely right about that 726 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,560 in that, you know, if the conversation is being had a lot 727 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,280 of the times with the people that I talked to, no one brought 728 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,440 up sexual health. Like by the time people get 729 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,640 herpes and talking to me, no one brought up sexual health. 730 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,760 Or they just ask something like, are you clean? 731 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,200 And I'm guilty of just asking, do I need this condom? 732 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:15,360 Meaning I'm concerned about pregnancy more so than SCIS. 733 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,160 That was me in like high school college, but. 734 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,720 Yeah. Now it's more of a conversation. 735 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,360 It's a little bit of all of those things that I mentioned 736 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,360 earlier, including like our intentions for the relationship. 737 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,200 And that's so much more fun now, and I can stop that there. 738 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,840 No, I love that. Yeah. 739 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,420 I feel like Hinge or like every app should just have like a pop 740 00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:41,080 up, like a little informational thing that's like, here's some 741 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,480 tips for safe sex. Like that couldn't hurt because 742 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,360 there's no one knows anything. I didn't have like not one guy 743 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,000 ever asked me about my sexual health during my whole like 744 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,760 dating time. Yet the moment I mentioned 745 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,920 herpes, like suddenly their body was a temple and they're like, 746 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,520 Oh no, like I can't have that. I don't even know what that is, 747 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,760 but I definitely can't have that. 748 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,760 And I'm like, you didn't even want to use a condom before 749 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,960 like, and suddenly you, you care so much. 750 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,240 So I know it all comes from this place of like just poor sex 751 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,360 education and like the stigma, but super frustrating in the 752 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,480 moment. Absolutely. 753 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,240 So we can close this out with you just sharing, I guess what, 754 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,720 what was the process or conversation like between you 755 00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:31,320 and your current partner about you now being open about having 756 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,400 herpes? Like was this a discussion? 757 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,560 Were they supportive? How'd that go? 758 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,320 It went great. I actually. 759 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,880 So we started dating in January and I had on my Hinge profile 760 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,120 that I wanted to make this one woman show. 761 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,480 I didn't say that I was about herpes on the profile, but yeah, 762 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,000 by the second date I told him and he was very chill about it. 763 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,920 He did say he like, wanted to do his research, but then on the 764 00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,880 next date he said it was totally fine. 765 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,240 But yeah, he's been really supportive of my storytelling 766 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,520 passion. And yeah, he just, he's like an 767 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,800 amazing guy. Doesn't have like a huge ego. 768 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,040 So I've definitely dated people in the past where, herpes aside, 769 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,160 they just didn't really want me telling stories about other 770 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,880 guys, even though it was in the past. 771 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,200 And so many of my stories are about dating because they're 772 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,640 just so much goes on with dating. 773 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,280 I was about to ask you. I was going to say, like you 774 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,520 sound like you've done a lot of dating with herpes and I'm very 775 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,360 curious to know about your experience because it seems like 776 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,720 you have a lot of experience. And I know that a lot of women 777 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:42,120 do not see life after herpes in reference to dating. 778 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,440 And here you are like literally living it and doing it and being 779 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,520 it. Totally, yeah, I've had so many 780 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,520 different experiences with this. I there's like a couple of 781 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,440 things. 1 is like the more confident you get with 782 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,560 disclosing, like the better it is. 783 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,920 I'm sorry, I said the the bad word discussing your sexual 784 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,200 health, but way easier said than done. 785 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,240 And I would just say to those people like have grace with 786 00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:13,760 yourself because I had so many of those discussions where I was 787 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,960 like hyperventilating with like herpes statistics and like 788 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,080 probably scaring the guy more than I had to. 789 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,000 And like, it's OK if you do that the first couple of times. 790 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,600 Like cut yourself some slack for a while. 791 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,040 I would actually blame myself. Like I'm the reason I'm getting 792 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,320 rejected is because I can't deliver this information in a 793 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,320 chill way. But then I would share it in a 794 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,160 chill way to other guys and they still would reject me. 795 00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:39,680 So I think there's something to be said for like someone is 796 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,600 going to be open minded or not and you actually don't play a 797 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,080 major role in it, which can be really liberating. 798 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,280 Yeah, absolutely. And you take accountability for 799 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,840 your role in the things and then you don't take accountability 800 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,640 for the things that are not yours to take accountability and 801 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:03,200 responsibility for. So that that that hits, if you 802 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:10,160 happen to have any like Hinge conversations or examples that 803 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,600 you would like to share and maybe a support group or 804 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,400 something in the future, I would love to invite you to that. 805 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,080 Not to put you on the spot or anything, but I think that that 806 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,760 can be very useful for the ladies who were like, I can 807 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,760 never see myself dating after this. 808 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,520 For someone to come in and be like, actually, you can. 809 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,400 And this is how it looks. So I have a lot of. 810 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,480 Examples. All right, cool, because. 811 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,840 You know you got a screenshot to the to the girls and like get 812 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,960 their thoughts so. Yeah. 813 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,920 Screenshots. Yes, block out faces. 814 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,920 That's all I need. Yes. 815 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:48,160 OK, so this is all I got for us. I think that this actually flew 816 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,720 by. Please let people know how they 817 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:53,760 can find you, how they can connect with you. 818 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,240 And yeah, just learn more about upcoming shows in the event that 819 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:02,080 this is something that you do later down the road virtually or 820 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,880 if you take the show on the road, that people can stay 821 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,320 connected with you and learn more about it. 822 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,200 Yeah, Instagram is the best way to stay connected, so I'm at 823 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,600 under score. Lauren tells stories, and yeah, 824 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,760 I hope to have many more shows beyond the February ones. 825 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,160 I tell lots of other stories too, beyond herpes, but yeah, if 826 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,760 anyone is ever interested in storytelling or just want 827 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,360 someone to talk to about dating with herpes, like feel free to 828 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,200 slide into my DMS. Like I want to be helpful. 829 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,200 I was in a really dark place for a while and I really wish I had. 830 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,160 I wish I had found your page, Courtney. 831 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,160 So really happy to support anyone who needs it. 832 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,320 Thank you so much, Lauren. All right, that's under score 833 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,280 Lauren tells stories and that concludes this episode of 834 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:50,880 something positive for positive people. 835 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,720 Please like rate review, share, subscribe to the pot. 836 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:56,920 No, it don't feel right saying that no more. 837 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,000 This is this is 1/3 to last episode. 838 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:04,840 And I don't know, like I want to just name that perhaps a season 839 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,320 2 comes and something's different, but 400 episodes of 840 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,800 talking about herpes and trying to shift and not shifting and 841 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,440 saying this is the end and then not. 842 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:20,560 I do feel at most peace with completing the podcast here at 843 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,360 episode 400 and letting what's out there be out there. 844 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,680 And if people want to connect with me, talk to me, work with 845 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:32,000 me, there's a place for that. Just visit spfpp.org and then we 846 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,480 can figure things out. I am still taking survey 847 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,760 responses, so SP fpp.org/herpes Dash survey so we can get the 848 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,520 most accurate, up to date statistics for people to be able 849 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,280 to share with partners, there's providers and for providers to 850 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,840 be able to share with patients. Yeah, I'm in a real good place 851 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,520 and I feel good about this coming to a close now. 852 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,960 All right y'all, till next time stay present.