Hello, welcome to Something Positive for Positive People.
As you can see, you are connecting with the quarters of
Courtney this fine afternoon. No, I'm just kidding.
Welcome to Something Positive for Positive People.
I'm Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive
People is A5O1C3 nonprofit organization supporting people
navigating herpes stigma, as well as advocating for better
sexual Health Communication education between patients and
healthcare providers, among educators, to people who are in
the process of learning, as well as the general population.
Just teaching people how to get comfortable with talking about
their sexual health needs so that we can experience more
pleasure. I don't think I ever said that
before. Couple notes.
So this podcast is being recorded right before the big
episode 400 drop as we celebrate 8 more accurately, 8 1/2 years
of running the Something Positive for Positive People
podcast. If you're in New York City or
able to make it out to Brooklyn, NY, just come to the website.
You'll see it up. The event is December 12th,
2025. So if you listen to this years
from now, know that you missed it and you should have been
there because we singing karaoke, we celebrating.
And yeah, I'm going to bring the podcast to a close.
It felt like for a while I was just trying to squeeze that last
little bit of toothpaste out of the toothpaste tube.
And, yeah, getting to a place now where I've had a very
diverse range of conversations recorded for people to have a
different blueprint of how other people are navigating herpes
stigma has gotten us to this point.
And I'm so appreciative of everything that has been done so
far. I look, I feel really complete
and closing out, there's something positive for positive
people podcast at episode 400, especially transitioning into
doing more with the support groups, the community and the
simulations with for healthcare professionals and everyday
people. All right, so with that said,
this is my second to last podcast guest.
I got Lauren here with me. And Lauren, I'm going to let you
introduce yourself, how you want to be introduced and then just
share how we connected and what led you to reach out.
Awesome. I'm so honored to be in one of
the final episodes. My name is Lauren.
I'm based in Chicago. Super jealous that I can't go to
this New York event with karaoke.
Let's see, I'm originally from the outside of Boston, but I've
been in Chicago for the past decade and I work in the
nonprofit world as a project manager.
But on the side, I do storytelling as a pretty serious
passion and hobby, and I'm currently developing a one woman
show which I'll be performing in Chicago in February 2025 and
hopefully in many. Other oh, sorry. 2026.
Yeah, there you go for. True.
I can't believe it's the end of the year.
That would be amazing. I'm performing this show in the
past, yeah. In the past, yes, 2026.
And hopefully it will continue on for a while.
And yeah, how we connected. So it's funny, I actually DM Ed
Courtney on Instagram last night.
And it's crazy that we are talking on this podcast right
now. But Jolene Hernandez, who
developed the documentary No Shame in This Game, told me
about Courtney. And I saw you in the documentary
as well. And yeah, I was just looking to
connect with people in like this, like herpes advocacy space
as I'm putting together this show.
I did come to storytelling because of herpes, but it's
become so much more than that, just like herpes is, I'd say I I
think I've heard in one of your episodes, Courtney, how it's
kind of like a mirror for other things going on in your life.
But yeah, you, you looked confused.
I can explain more. So I was going through like a
really bad breakup because of herpes.
Someone rejected me and I decided to start telling
stories. But I've never done a 60 minute
show before, which is what's happening next year.
All right, so couple questions. One, yes, you reached out to me
yesterday and we are podcasting today.
Let me tell you how things just fell into place because this has
been happening for me a lot lately.
And I think that it speaks to alignment intentionality where I
needed to record a podcast like a few days ago actually.
But I just with the timing and everything, I just got back from
the holidays on Monday and then I immediately had to get into
work to support groups and I've had the most chaotic work week
ever. And I still got to promote the
event, right? So I was like, I need to record
a podcast today. I know what the 400th episode is
going to be and what it's going to be about.
And then boom, I got that message.
So I was like, oh, this can work, but I need it because I I
have an interview Sunday. So I would have needed like a
fill in episode of some sort and I didn't have anything to talk
about. I was like, the last episode is
going to be it. And I didn't want to give that
away before it being the 400. And so you popping up when you
did just speaks to how things align and the way that they're
supposed to. So I, I just wanted to share
that with you here because I guess that means that here you
are being in alignment for yourself as you make the
transition into this one minute show or one minute show, this
one woman show for 60 minutes at that.
Yeah, it was meant to be. It was crazy.
When I first messaged you and I already saw you typing, I was
like, Oh my God, something's. Happening I when I don't have my
phone on do not disturb, if I do not respond to you right away, I
might miss it and just lose it. So I'm not the kind of person
like I might open it and then I got to unread it so that when I
do get back to it, I can get back to it.
But yeah, I, I'm glad that you were able to make yourself
available. And I know I know that you were
kind of going back and forth on whether or not to do the podcast
today. What was that for you?
Like, did you just have a lot of stuff going on, or were you up
in the air about wanting to Share your story?
Yeah, so today has been a really big day for me because I posted
on social media for the first time that I have herpes.
So it's like this will be a core memory.
Like December 5th, 2025 will be a big memory in my life, I'd
say. But I just so happened to have a
rehearsal tomorrow via Zoom with some an awesome performer I met
when I was in Rochester, NY. So I had to put my script
together. So that's what I've been doing
all day today and I was just worried about being able to get
as much progress as I wanted done, but thankfully I had a
really productive day. Yeah, OK, Well, I was wondering
if maybe you were nervous because I was sure.
Like, you know, I don't want to put you in this, in this, you
know, window. Because what happens for me is
that a lot of people when they get excited to the point where
they want to share their story or their experience with the
world, when the dopamine dies down, time passes.
They want to get a regular corporate job or something.
They they ask me to take the podcast down or they want to
just they regret having done it or something.
I don't know what it is, but I don't know, something about this
just seemed the line. It felt like, you know, the way
that you approached it was like it with some kind of
intentionality. So I want to speak to that.
Like what made you want to share?
What made you want to make this show or or just put your story
out there in general? Yeah, it's such a good question.
And I in some ways I had a light bulb moment and in other ways it
was a slow, gradual process. But back to that rejection I was
talking about. That was in 2021, and that was
the moment when I hit rock bottom.
I thought this was like a recent rejection and maybe you were
like, oh. No.
So thankfully I'm not in that headspace where I'm like, screw
this. I was definitely in that for a
while. Yeah.
So in 2021, I was, I had been on like 5 dates with this amazing
guy who I thought was really perfect and he really liked me.
And I had disclosed to him though I didn't do it like in
the best practice way, you're not really supposed to do it
like when you're hooking up. But I did it in the very last
second because I was terrified. And he said he needed time to
think about it, which was totally fair.
But then 2 seconds later he said it's actually fine, like I just
really want to hook up with you. So we did, and I was like
celebrating in my head. And on the next date, like a few
days later, he completely pulled the rug from underneath me and
said his words were like, Lauren, you're honestly perfect.
But being intimate with my partner matters too much for me,
so I can't be with you. And that crushed me on a lot of
levels because it's like, you can't be intimate with me, but
like I'm being intimate and sharing my big secret with you.
Also, I was trying so hard to be perfect for him because I
thought if I could just be perfect, someone will accept me.
And he literally said I was perfect.
And it still wasn't enough. And for the longest time, it
made me feel really hopeless, like there's nothing I can do.
I'm just going to die alone. Like that's that.
And so anyway, maybe a month after that, I was like, I
actually can't handle all these emotions that I'm feeling like
I'm grieving so much. I'm grieving what I thought
would be with this guy. I'm also grieving just like any
like shot at like a beautiful love story that like I always
thought I would have. So it took me hitting rock
bottom for me to actually just Google like storytelling
workshop Chicago. And then I told like a 10 minute
story. So that was 2021.
That was the beginning of my storytelling career and I've
been telling stories ever since. And I saw a lot of people in the
storytelling community making these like one person shows that
were much longer, like 1 hours shows and they were more like
plays. And I thought, I have so much to
say about my herpes dating experience and like I'm always
trying to do too much. So I was like, I want to do
that. So yeah, I decided to do this
like a year ago all. Right.
So I want to come back to that. However, now I want to talk
about this perfection, this. You're perfect except for this.
And then you mentioned that you were trying to be perfect.
Was there any authenticity in your presentation to this?
Yeah, I think I've become really used to trying to be perfect,
even before I got herpes. Unfortunately, it's just like
what society pressures us to do. I played a lot of sports growing
up, so I feel like it was just reinforced in my brain, like you
can always be better. Outcomes are within your
control. So I applied that mindset to
dating and I was like, well, let me just keep muscling through
this. Like if I can just be like an 11
out of 10 for someone, it'll be fine.
So I don't think I did anything like out of alignment per SE,
but I was not fully present on these dates.
Like I was trying really hard to seem knowledgeable and all these
topics like. I also like Google.
Did you Google some of the things that he shared he's
interested in, like Google some of the anime he watches or
sports teams? And you're like, Oh yeah, you
know, I watched this show. I've seen a few episodes of
this. Totally.
Yeah, I remember like a really common question on dates was
like, what's something that you're like a nerd about?
And I was like, honestly, I I don't really nerd out about a
lot of things, which is actually really uncool these days.
Like it's cool to be like really steeped into something.
And I'm like, I'm actually just, I'm not really like that.
Like, I don't go deep into like this historical time of like
life or something or like into science or anime for, for your
example. So I felt like I was pretending
to have these like, deep passions in something, which is
ironic because I ended up getting a deep passion and
storytelling. But yeah, I felt this need to
like make some archetype of who I was, I guess.
Yeah. So your herpes diagnosis having
LED you to your passion and you've been doing this for four
years now. So you just stumbled in the
storytelling and is, is it a career or is it a how do we
differentiate? Is this your career?
Is this your passion? Is it a hobby?
Help me like understand what it is for you.
Right now, I call it a passion. I think it'll always be a
passion. I would love for it to be my
career but it's really hard to make money through storytelling.
I do have like big aspirations though after the show.
Like I want to have a YouTube channel and stuff like that but
I'm trying to be like laser focused on the February show,
making sure I get the story right instead of like thinking
about all these like business ideas.
So for now it's a passion but would love for it to be my
career all. Right.
I just wanted to speak on it properly without saying the
wrong things. So you stumbled into your
passion through this, and it was just your personal experience.
So it was that rejection that served as the catalyst for you
after a month to have hit rock bottom and be like, you know
what? This is what I'm doing.
I'm going to tell my story. And I'm wondering, like, did you
already know the power of storytelling?
Or was it something that you learned as you started to tell
your story? Yeah, I think a little bit of
both. I had known about the Moth
podcast, so I listen to stories a lot, never consider doing it
myself. And yeah, but it wasn't until
actually, like, saying the word herpes out loud at my first
storytelling workshop. And I realized, like, the world
didn't end when I said the word. And just seeing these, like,
warm faces looking at me like the storytelling community is
like, they're the kindest people you'll ever meet.
So yeah, I think just saying the word more out loud was really
powerful for me and, and helping me accept my situation.
And also writing is so helpful for processing emotions.
Yeah. So I every time I'm writing a
story, I'm basically like doing therapy to myself.
Like, I have all these revelations.
I remember that first story I told.
I by the time that I finished writing it, I developed so much
empathy for the person who gave me a herpes.
Weirdly enough, I think I went into the story pretty like angry
and I, by the time I finished writing it, I was like, we're
kind of living these like parallel lives.
Like I don't really know where he is right now, but I, he ended
up ghosting me when I texted him that I got herpes.
And I, that obviously left a really sour taste in my mouth.
But by writing the story, it made me I realize, like, he's
probably dealing with the stigma too.
Like the stigma is meant to scare us.
And it was that fear that probably led him to ghost me.
So yeah, I just, I felt this connection with him actually,
weirdly enough, even though I haven't really talked to him
since. It reminds me of that Alanis
Morissette video Hands Clean, where like you kind of see
what's happening with her and you kind of see like the
progression of him. I recently learned what that
song is about. And I was like, oh, I can't
unhear the song lyrics now, but I was just thinking about like
the where she is in life, where he is in life.
And I, I don't know who gave me herpes.
Like I don't even have like a speculation of it because all of
my partners that I asked at the time or the people that I've
been with all told me, no, they don't have it.
So, yeah, somebody could be lying.
But you know, I trust that people are giving me the
information that they have. And as I've moved forward
through this, I found that it was easier for me not knowing
where I got it from because I didn't have anybody to blame or
to create more resistance to me going through the healing
process. I wonder what that was like for
you. Like you had this person, you
know, that he ghosted you. What was the process of moving
through that like for you? It was a really big let down
because I had a big crush on this person.
I hadn't talked to him much. It was more like a crush from
afar. He was like the grade above me,
I think. So I had this like really high,
high of like, wow, I got to hook up with my crush.
Like that doesn't always happen. That's cool.
And then to finding out that I got herpes and I didn't even
know anything about herpes. I didn't know anyone who had it.
So yeah, but I actually forgot the question was it how was I?
Was I angry at him or something? Yeah, just really, like, what
was it like for you going through the healing process and
knowing who gave it to you? Because a lot of us have an
idea, but some of us don't know. And so I'm wondering what
without you, you know, giving away too much of your own
personal experience that you'd be telling, like, want to know
specifically about this? Like when you reached out, told
him and he ghosted you, what happened after that?
Because you mentioned the 2021 rejection was so hard for you,
but what was it about this person giving you herpes?
Like what did you experience with that?
Yeah, I honestly didn't resent him a ton because I, I knew
enough at that time to know that it's really random getting
herpes. And like most people who have it
don't even know they have it. So I did not blame him at all.
In the text that I sent him, I I pretty much assumed that he had
a cold sore and like didn't even realize that was herpes.
So I didn't have a lot of blame going his direction.
But the reason why I hit rock bottom so many years later
because when I got herpes, it was probably like 2014.
I was in a long term relationship in between those
two moments where I completely detached from herpes as like
part of my identity. I was dating this person for six
years. He didn't care that I had it.
It was a super like safe relationship.
Like I, I just felt so accepted and like it didn't matter.
I never had to think about it. And I was like, maybe I'll never
even have to think about herpes ever again in my life.
So it was only after we ended that relationship.
And by that time I was in my late 20s.
It was almost like I got herpes in my late 20s because that was
like the first time I really had a reckon with it.
And I was like relearning everything.
Like that's really when I was doing my like Googling about
herpes even though I got it so many years prior.
That makes sense. So it was you coming out of the
relationship. I hear that often, right?
You get into a relationship after your diagnosis and it's
like, Oh, yeah, this person accepts me.
And then later down the road for whatever reason is the
relationship doesn't work out and now you have to you have to
deal with it. It's like, oh, wait a minute, I
got to start telling people this again.
And then that's when we go down that that spiral, that rabbit
hole. What was it like for you getting
back into the dating world after such a long relationship now
with this herpes diagnosis? So it was very hard.
I had a mix of emotions. Part of me felt really excited
to go back out into the dating world.
I, I grew up watching Sex in the city because my mom would always
watch it. And I was like, oh, that's what
my life is going to be like. And I right when I got out of
that long relationship, I was like, I can finally like live
out my sex in the City dream. And then in the back of my mind
there was like this whisper like, well, you have herpes.
Like, can you even still do that?
So to be really honest, I didn't disclose with a few guys at
first. I, I rationalized it very hard.
I'm, I'm a overthinker. So I did a lot of research on
herpes and I also talked to like my doctor friends.
And I also saw that the stigma was like so alive.
And I thought to myself, I'm taking all these precautions.
I'm taking daily antivirals. I'm using condoms.
I'm making sure I don't have an outbreak before I hook up with
someone, and I know a lot of people out there don't even know
that they have it and are disclosing.
So I actually feel like a safer bet.
I don't believe this now, by the way, but this is what I was
telling myself. Like you, you tell yourself a
story that you want to hear. And I could not fathom like,
having to tell people about this during my time.
And I was trying to live out my Sex and the City dream.
So yeah, I had a few hookups where I did not tell the guys.
Thankfully I don't to my knowledge.
I didn't give it to anyone. But I did have a couple scares
actually. So because like when you hook up
with someone new, often times you can get an outbreak because
it's like new bacteria in your body.
So I remember like the day after one.
Of my hookups. Hey, hold on real quick.
You better tell these dudes rinse their mouth out, wash
their hands and and keep Yeah, just just do some do some
hygiene stuff. Yeah, for sure.
But I, yeah, I remember the day after one of my hookups, I got
an outbreak and I was like, oh shit, there's a chance that I
gave it to this guy and I haven't even told him that I
have herpes. And I spiraled so hard.
I remember Googling like, how long does it take to transmit
herpes to someone? And it's usually within 14 days
that it would show up. So I was, like, counting down
the days until that window would be over.
Like, I am so terrified. I didn't even make it the 14
days. I just told him.
And yeah, I actually had two experiences like this.
One of them, the guy was super chill about it.
And he was like, well, do you have an outbreak right now?
And by the time we had this conversation, I didn't.
And he was like, well, then it's OK.
Like, herpes is really common. And I was like, wow, what a
relief. Another guy because I guess you
need many times to learn from your mistakes.
He was not as chill about it and he was really nice actually.
But he ended up ending things with me because we were looking
for different things. But I imagine that either herpes
or me not telling him about herpes contributed to that.
So it was a terrible feeling. I felt really bad.
Like I always thought like I was a good person.
That's like, I'm not being a good person right now.
But like it's really, it just felt like a moral Gray area to
me with the stigma. And I was like, people with cold
sores aren't disclosing before they kiss someone.
Why do I have to do this? And that was like a major thing
that I learned through all of this is that fairness is not the
same thing as morality. Like just because it's not fair
that I have to disclose and people with cold sores aren't
doesn't mean that I shouldn't be doing it.
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
I think that that's it's vulnerable to tell someone you
have herpes and then it's vulnerable to tell someone or
complete strangers like, hey, I've not gone about this in the
most ethical way. So I very much appreciate that.
And I wonder too, there was a question in my head to ask you
about that. You, you mentioned we need
multiple times to learn our mistakes.
And it was around then that I wanted to ask you, do you feel
like it was harder for you? Well, I guess maybe not like I'm
about to answer my own question, but was it harder for you to
receive the oh, it's OK, you know, everybody has it.
Like that's a person that you didn't tell.
And do you feel bad because hey, there's this great guy that had
this positive response. Damn.
I probably could have told him before and it would have been
fine. 1st is telling the other person and then him not being OK
with it later on after the fact. Like what?
What were some of the things that went through your head with
those two different responses? Yeah, I definitely felt that way
about the first one. I was, I was so relieved and
thankful. The second one, he said.
I wish you had told me before. And in my mind, I'm, I'm asking
myself, is that because you wouldn't have slept with me or
because you want to have this like foundation of honesty?
Because if it's the former, then like I kind of stand by not
telling you that that was my former voice saying that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, yeah, I really like
struggle with that. People are like, well, you
should tell the person, but it's like, is that because you're
going to reject me or just because you want to know?
Yeah. Are you, are you concerned about
people from your past finding out?
And then if these were people that you didn't tell and then
you are on this podcast or you do your show and they pop up and
they're like, you didn't tell me.
A little bit, yeah. Most, I mean, it's it was only a
handful of people who I didn't tell and they were like random
Hinge people. So I don't think I'll ever see
them again. And it was like we slept
together like a couple times. So yeah, I honestly don't feel
that worried just given that like so many people have herpes
and a lot of people don't disclose.
So it's I and I don't think I gave it to them or else it would
have come up when we were together.
So yeah, I think I feel OK. We'll see how I feel tomorrow.
And I know you had mentioned like people with cold sores or
HSV orally not sharing this with people before they kiss.
And there's so much to that. Like I, I still believe that
herpes should not be considered a sexually transmitted infection
because it's transmitted sensually.
You can get it without having intercourse.
You can get it without, even if you wear a condom, right?
So it's a skin, skin contact virus that can transmit to other
parts of the body as well. And I, I kind of stand by that,
that the way that we look at herpes isn't even about herpes
itself. It's about our relationship to
sex. The way that society views sex,
herpes has the stigma as a second hand impact of that.
And that's something that I stand by.
Yeah, that's super interesting. Yeah, I.
Think people. Are like, it also just has to do
with the risk in general. And I feel like this came up
during COVID when we realized how interconnected we are.
And it's like anytime you step out of your house, you're at
risk of something. Anytime you get into a car,
you're at risk of dying, like when you drink alcohol, stuff
like that. So I was just really shocked by
how scared people were about herpes given all the other risks
that people take in life. Yeah, 'cause so much of it is
about who's worth the risk, right?
Think about how many people you did or didn't wear a mask
around, which places you'd go to where you would or wouldn't wear
a mask, right? Like unconsciously, there's
these things that we're doing on a consistent basis where we're
assessing, OK, I have these rules, I have these boundaries,
I have these things in place. But for the right person, blank,
like all this shit goes out the window.
For the right person, people, however we want to see it.
And that's one of the things that I noticed for many of the
people that I talked to who now have herpes, is that that shit
goes out the window and people are like, oh, I should.
I knew I shouldn't have sex with this person or my intuition told
me and I didn't listen to it. And that's something that I
regularly try and get people to see and reconnect with.
It's that inner voice that maybe got shushed and then boom, we
get this herpes diagnosis. So we get herpes.
And now it's, I should have listened to my intuition.
And now we've got this thing that serves as a more tangible
copilot for our intuition because it guides us to if we're
having outbreaks, like if we're super stressed, if we're not
taking care of ourselves, right? And that's one of the ways that
we can view living with herpes. Now, a question I wanted to ask
you is what where are you from? I'm curious about like your
cultural background and upbringing in regards to sex.
Oh yeah, so I'm from outside of Boston, but ethnically I'm half
Chinese and then 1/4 Lebanese and like European, but I only
have one grandparent not from the US, so I'm pretty American.
But yeah, in terms of sex, like culturally, I didn't talk a lot
about sex growing up. I'd say I was definitely a late
bloomer. So I always thought it was
ironic that I got herpes out of everyone.
Like I didn't think I was like the most promiscuous person
ever, but that just shows how random it is.
But yeah, I just don't really remember talking about sex a lot
growing up. I I didn't, I'm not religious,
so I have no shame around sexually and I really don't have
any. I've never had shame around
herpes. It's actually something that's
come up a lot in my storytelling journey.
When I've told people I'm telling a story about herpes,
they're like, Lauren, that's so brave.
You're telling a story about shame.
I'm like, wait a second. I've never been ashamed.
I wait. You want to raise her?
Yeah, all. Right, I have to I if I don't
challenge you on this, I'm not a good podcaster.
Do it. Challenge me.
If you don't have shame, what kept you from telling people
that you didn't have that? You have herpes.
So I think shame is different from embarrassment.
I actually, I defined the word shame.
I looked it up and it's you feel bad about something you did.
It's tied to your actions. And I have no regrets about
having that one night stand in college.
I'm really proud of myself for going up to my crush.
I'm embarrassed to have her be where I was because of the
stigma that society puts on it. But I think it's random and
unlucky that I got it and that anyone else has it.
All right, I just had to ask because for me, when I got
diagnosed, I was relieved after I called the most recent
partners that I had and heard that they didn't have herpes
because I would have been embarrassed to have known as the
guy that's going around giving people herpes.
That was where embarrassment was and it landed for me.
So it's interesting to hear somebody else say that because
everyone else that many of the people that I speak to talk
about the shame. It's like, why didn't I didn't
do anything wrong? What is there to be a shame?
Unless you're in a religious sense, you did something wrong
in relation to God or you did something wrong in relation to
your upbringing of how sex was talked about.
And it's like you weren't supposed to do this thing that
you did. So yes, feel bad about the thing
that you did shame. But for me, it's just like
embarrassing to give it to someone you know, whether I know
or not, right? Like that would have been the
embarrassing thing for me. Totally, yeah.
And for me it was just embarrassing talking about sex
in general. Like I didn't want to have to
bring up herpes on 1/3 date or like in any other setting.
Like I just don't want to be talking about sex like that.
I think there's something to like early dating that's really
mysterious and fun and you don't even know where it's going to
lead, but you both kind of know where it's going to lead.
And I just felt like herpes took that out of the equation.
So that's something else that I mourned.
I was like, I don't want to be so like blatant like at the end
of our second date, by the way, I'm not sure if we're going to
have sex, but in case we do, let me just give you this quick sex
Ed talk. Like, no, I want to be like
mysterious and fun. So that was something that was
hard for me. So have you never seen
discussing your herpes status as something fun with partners?
I wouldn't say it's ever been fun for me.
It. Definitely got easier and has it
been fun for? You, yes, and I think part of it
is having gone and listened to, well, I'm in sex education, so
it's very normal to talk about sex and sexual health because
it's interconnected with pleasure.
The safer I feel with you, the more I can let loose, the more
you should feel safe and the more free we are to be able to
be with each other. Because if you are going into it
like in your heteronormative start to finish, go on a great
day. Hey, you want to come back to my
place? We don't talk about sex.
It just kind of happens or it's assumed and maybe I wear a
condom. Maybe I ask you if I need a
condom and then we perform the sex the way that it's scripted
or it's a all right, so I'm seeing this, you know, leaning
towards me wanting to continue our night together.
Would you want to come back to my place?
Yes, I would love that. All right, before we do that.
So sexual health is important to me.
This is how often I'm tested. I was last tested for these
things. I test positive for herpes.
What about you? And then boom, we had that
conversation. Or even if it's more like under
underneath that. I remember one time I was out
and I met someone out that night at like a skating rink or
something, and I just introduced myself.
Hi, I'm Courtney. And we ended up talking for a
while and I was interested in hooking up.
And so I was like, yeah, so what's up?
And she was like, you don't want to sleep with me.
I have herpes. And this is the first time this
has ever happened to me where someone tells me that they have
it first. And this is like out in the
wild. I fucked with her.
I was like, doesn't everybody have herpes like that?
She had no idea what I did. I was just like, it is what it
is. And I made that fun.
It was just something interesting about that space
between me or her, like having told me this very vulnerable
thing that I know is a vulnerable thing.
I know, like the emotional tornadoes that are happening in
a person's head, about how the other person is receiving it.
And for me to have been in that place, it was just fun.
So I eventually told her she was like, you asshole, why did you
tell me earlier? But in a playful way.
But yeah, it's it's fun because it's also wrapped up in here are
the things that, you know, I see I want to do with you or I see
us doing together, right? And you can speak to those
things and let it be woven in with the safety stuff as you
talk about what turns you on, as you talk about your boundaries,
how you like to be communicated with during sex or how you like
to be touched during sex, how you don't like to be touched,
right? These are the things that take
away that there's often misfires in the first time that you maybe
have sex sex with someone. And I think that it can make for
a super healthy, playful, fun and secure hookup.
Yeah. No, I can totally see that and I
think I did. I got much better at disclosing
by the end of it. Alright.
I got, I got to, I got to say this.
So we don't use the word disclosing here.
We use the word disgusting, right?
Disgusting. Yeah, Well, OK, one, we're not
signing legal documents, right? On the other hand, it's
disclosing is I have something to tell you.
Discussing is we're engaging in a conversation.
So it's not, I have to tell you I have herpes.
It's we need to talk about our sexual health, right.
So it's not a confession, it's a conversation.
It's not a disclosure, it's a discussion.
So I ain't mean to cut you off. I just.
No, no, I love that shift. Yeah.
I feel like I shifted to discussions once I was like more
comfortable with talking about herpes and sex in general.
But I was still using the word disclosure as of 2 seconds ago.
So thank you. But yeah, so I'm in a
relationship now, but, and I feel like back when I was
discussing this, I actually, I lost my train of thought.
But something I was going to say earlier is that I feel like
there's a a gender thing that's in my mind.
It's not necessarily right. It's just gender norms, which is
that women are usually like the submissive one.
We're not the one to be like super direct.
We're the ones to be like sought after.
And that doesn't really align with like initiating a
conversation about sex. And it's something I'm pretty
torn about because being somewhat obsessed with Sex and
the City, especially the Samantha character, she goes
after what she wants. And I feel like if she had
herpes, she probably did have herpes, that she would totally
just, like, bring up these conversations.
And I feel like her character is something I wanted to embody for
a long time, just like this empowered, confident woman.
And it's just the discomfort that comes with like shifting
into like a new personality, I guess.
So I really, I love the idea of making it a fun conversation,
bringing it up like before it needs to happen.
But there is some sort of like mysterious part that I still
grieve, if I'm being honest. Yeah, there's two questions I
have. I know the first one is really
in relation to your partner, your relationship that you're in
now and what his thoughts are or their thoughts are on you being
open about your herpes status. I want to come back to that.
The other thing was Sex and City.
It was good. It was such a good question.
Let's start there and see if it comes back.
Was it about like being direct in gender norms?
Making the 1st. Thank you.
Yeah. So it sucks because on one hand
that's the case. But men, we are not given the
tools that we need, especially men who date women to talk about
sex and sexual health. When you go even into sexual
health related content, it's all geared towards gay men because
it's HIV prevention. How often do we hear like even
when we look at sex toys, sex toys are marketed to women.
What's the male equivalent of sex toys or pleasure products,
right? There's no, there's nothing that
ties to our pleasure that is so outright and we're not marketed
to and how to communicate about this.
So the burden of the conversation even being had does
in fact go on to women. And then you got the idea of if
you're bringing it up, then like, oh, you must not be a pure
or good woman or you're promiscuous because you're
initiating these conversations or it can even look
emasculating. But a lot of us just don't know
to initiate the conversation or do we know how?
And because of a lot of assumptions and media that
speaks to men the way that it does in regards to sex and what
we learned from porn is to perform, there's not much that's
like, hey, here's how to be vulnerable.
Here's what intimacy is. So that that that was just
something that I wanted to speak to Absolutely right about that
in that, you know, if the conversation is being had a lot
of the times with the people that I talked to, no one brought
up sexual health. Like by the time people get
herpes and talking to me, no one brought up sexual health.
Or they just ask something like, are you clean?
And I'm guilty of just asking, do I need this condom?
Meaning I'm concerned about pregnancy more so than SCIS.
That was me in like high school college, but.
Yeah. Now it's more of a conversation.
It's a little bit of all of those things that I mentioned
earlier, including like our intentions for the relationship.
And that's so much more fun now, and I can stop that there.
No, I love that. Yeah.
I feel like Hinge or like every app should just have like a pop
up, like a little informational thing that's like, here's some
tips for safe sex. Like that couldn't hurt because
there's no one knows anything. I didn't have like not one guy
ever asked me about my sexual health during my whole like
dating time. Yet the moment I mentioned
herpes, like suddenly their body was a temple and they're like,
Oh no, like I can't have that. I don't even know what that is,
but I definitely can't have that.
And I'm like, you didn't even want to use a condom before
like, and suddenly you, you care so much.
So I know it all comes from this place of like just poor sex
education and like the stigma, but super frustrating in the
moment. Absolutely.
So we can close this out with you just sharing, I guess what,
what was the process or conversation like between you
and your current partner about you now being open about having
herpes? Like was this a discussion?
Were they supportive? How'd that go?
It went great. I actually.
So we started dating in January and I had on my Hinge profile
that I wanted to make this one woman show.
I didn't say that I was about herpes on the profile, but yeah,
by the second date I told him and he was very chill about it.
He did say he like, wanted to do his research, but then on the
next date he said it was totally fine.
But yeah, he's been really supportive of my storytelling
passion. And yeah, he just, he's like an
amazing guy. Doesn't have like a huge ego.
So I've definitely dated people in the past where, herpes aside,
they just didn't really want me telling stories about other
guys, even though it was in the past.
And so many of my stories are about dating because they're
just so much goes on with dating.
I was about to ask you. I was going to say, like you
sound like you've done a lot of dating with herpes and I'm very
curious to know about your experience because it seems like
you have a lot of experience. And I know that a lot of women
do not see life after herpes in reference to dating.
And here you are like literally living it and doing it and being
it. Totally, yeah, I've had so many
different experiences with this. I there's like a couple of
things. 1 is like the more confident you get with
disclosing, like the better it is.
I'm sorry, I said the the bad word discussing your sexual
health, but way easier said than done.
And I would just say to those people like have grace with
yourself because I had so many of those discussions where I was
like hyperventilating with like herpes statistics and like
probably scaring the guy more than I had to.
And like, it's OK if you do that the first couple of times.
Like cut yourself some slack for a while.
I would actually blame myself. Like I'm the reason I'm getting
rejected is because I can't deliver this information in a
chill way. But then I would share it in a
chill way to other guys and they still would reject me.
So I think there's something to be said for like someone is
going to be open minded or not and you actually don't play a
major role in it, which can be really liberating.
Yeah, absolutely. And you take accountability for
your role in the things and then you don't take accountability
for the things that are not yours to take accountability and
responsibility for. So that that that hits, if you
happen to have any like Hinge conversations or examples that
you would like to share and maybe a support group or
something in the future, I would love to invite you to that.
Not to put you on the spot or anything, but I think that that
can be very useful for the ladies who were like, I can
never see myself dating after this.
For someone to come in and be like, actually, you can.
And this is how it looks. So I have a lot of.
Examples. All right, cool, because.
You know you got a screenshot to the to the girls and like get
their thoughts so. Yeah.
Screenshots. Yes, block out faces.
That's all I need. Yes.
OK, so this is all I got for us. I think that this actually flew
by. Please let people know how they
can find you, how they can connect with you.
And yeah, just learn more about upcoming shows in the event that
this is something that you do later down the road virtually or
if you take the show on the road, that people can stay
connected with you and learn more about it.
Yeah, Instagram is the best way to stay connected, so I'm at
under score. Lauren tells stories, and yeah,
I hope to have many more shows beyond the February ones.
I tell lots of other stories too, beyond herpes, but yeah, if
anyone is ever interested in storytelling or just want
someone to talk to about dating with herpes, like feel free to
slide into my DMS. Like I want to be helpful.
I was in a really dark place for a while and I really wish I had.
I wish I had found your page, Courtney.
So really happy to support anyone who needs it.
Thank you so much, Lauren. All right, that's under score
Lauren tells stories and that concludes this episode of
something positive for positive people.
Please like rate review, share, subscribe to the pot.
No, it don't feel right saying that no more.
This is this is 1/3 to last episode.
And I don't know, like I want to just name that perhaps a season
2 comes and something's different, but 400 episodes of
talking about herpes and trying to shift and not shifting and
saying this is the end and then not.
I do feel at most peace with completing the podcast here at
episode 400 and letting what's out there be out there.
And if people want to connect with me, talk to me, work with
me, there's a place for that. Just visit spfpp.org and then we
can figure things out. I am still taking survey
responses, so SP fpp.org/herpes Dash survey so we can get the
most accurate, up to date statistics for people to be able
to share with partners, there's providers and for providers to
be able to share with patients. Yeah, I'm in a real good place
and I feel good about this coming to a close now.
All right y'all, till next time stay present.