All right, welcome to something positive for Positive People.
I'm Courtney Brain. Something positive for positive
people is A5O1C3 nonprofit organization supporting people
who are navigating herpes stigma.
In addition to that, we also teach people how to communicate
about their sexual health and that this episode is going to
highlight that in more of a hands on, personal experience
based process. I got a guest on here, Tamar
Weir, who is the your You managed the Instagram account
pomegranate pleasure, is that right?
It is right, yeah. And I don't really have
announcements, so we can really just go into the recording.
So we I talked about this on the previous episode.
I just didn't say who or like give any like details outside of
that, but I did an episode speaking about possible exposure
to urea plasma and I really, really highlighted the
communication and just like thought about how grateful I was
to like have someone who all right, I was exposed to this.
Let me tell all of my partners, hey, this is a thing here, Be
mindful of it. Here's the information.
And then the way that you presented it not being something
that was overly positive or overly like in a fearful way or
anything, it was just a very neutral presentation of the
information and what, you know, suggested next steps were.
So that was kind of what I talked about in the podcast of
how it was for me receiving that information.
And so I guess to start and I'll talk about the urea plasma, what
it is and all of that. We'll get into it.
But for starters, yeah, I let's open up with the the
communication in your experience since the audience knows mine if
they listen to that episode. Yeah, yeah.
So the communication is definitely part of my passion
and and this like sexual health and sensuality work.
I talk about it a lot. I think it's generally a topic
that a lot of people are talking about.
Whether or not people are actually doing it or not, I
don't know. It's like a separate podcast
perhaps. But yeah, I feel like for me
personally, whatever I'm exploring something new within
my own experience. I, there's always a, a certain
level of whether like, you know, perhaps anxiety or just newness
to a situation that really I like to look at as like an
opportunity to practice something.
And from our, you know, past podcasts and folks who know me
communication around like sexual desires and STI status and all
that good stuff is not something that is new for me or
unfamiliar, but urea plasma was. And so that is where kind of the
two things came together, where maybe I may be more familiar
with having these hard conversations than other people,
but it was an opportunity to do it in a different or new way
because urea plasma was something that was not very
familiar to me. So that's kind of like the
background headspace that I was in was, you know, curious,
confused, and also just seeing it as like an opportunity to
keep exploring this, whether or not it's through my work or like
my own personal experience with my body and my partners, you
know? Yeah.
Out of curiosity, was this something that because you wrote
about it and I read the blog, very well written, thank you for
sharing. Was this re triggering?
And I use triggering very loosely, let's call it
activating for you from having your herpes experience and then
talking about that and now sharing about another SCI.
Yeah, actually it wasn't as it wasn't as much as I thought it
would or could be. I think that unlike, I think for
the main, the main reason why it didn't kind of resurface some
old feelings was because when I got herpes, I was very young and
there was a lot of fear and like misinformation and stigma that
still exists now. But I was a lot younger.
I was like 18 and just, yeah, very, very young.
And so I think when I had herpes, I was just flooded with
a lot of fear because of the heavy stigma that was around me.
And now, like almost 10 years later, there is still so much
stigma, but I feel a lot more sure of myself.
And so I feel like that stigma doesn't penetrate me as easily
as it did before. It was like full on, you know,
chaos. And so and also I think it
didn't re resurface any old feelings because of what I'm
studying now and focusing on and because I think urea plasma is
still a very confusing bacteria. So you know, when there is
confusion about things, I think sometimes the stigma is a little
different. I mean, of course people are
still, I see in my life very confused by herpes, but I think
it's a little different than urea plasma.
We can get into the specifics of maybe the differences and
whatnot, but I'm curious about you.
Did it resurface anything or prompt any old thoughts and
feelings you had? Or was it completely new or like
a mix? Urea plasma was very similar of
an experience because I didn't know anything about it, right.
And I think that what was familiar for me more than
anything was having to navigate the conversation with other
partners and being more concerned with I would a newer
person who maybe doesn't know me all that well.
Like what would they think? And if you let yourself get into
the thought process and go down a rabbit hole of possibilities,
like you can really mind fuck yourself.
So for me, it was just a matter of, OK, let me go ahead and just
I got the information like the sooner the better.
I would rather know in the instance like that, like I'd
want to know now, especially before if I engage with anybody
else, especially if I know that the people that I see see other
people. So for me, it was just a matter
of OK, hey, I got this information today and I just
wanted to share with you. I don't know much about, I don't
know anything about this, so I'm going to get tested.
It was very similar to the text that you sent.
It was just a lot shorter, I would say.
But yeah, I think that that was really the only thing.
It was just like, damn, I gotta tell you know, people, and I
don't know how their reactions are gonna go, but it was a real
good litmus test for the quality of and the kind of people that I
do have sex with and communicate with.
Because no one was, no one said to me like the worst possible
things that I think people imagine that are gonna be said.
I've never been met with those things.
And I think for a regular person who may look from the outside in
and be like, well, Courtney, you're in sex education, you
know what to say. It ain't always what you say,
but it's like also how it's being said.
It's where the other person is, the context of the relationship,
how they receive it, kind of move there in.
Are they hungry? Are they hot?
You know what I mean? Yeah.
So I had some initial like rockiness going into it, but
then as it became more of a conversation, I think I became a
lot more comfortable. Yeah.
And did you, Yeah, I get that. Did you feel like you had to
have a lot of conversations and through the urea plasma?
No. So the conversations I had, I
reached out to two of my board members who are in sexual health
because one of them had just treated someone for it.
And she was like, yo, that is a bitch.
I was like, what do you mean? And so she was explaining to me
how long it takes for the test results to get back the
treatment turn around time. And then another board member
had had another she shared as well, like what her experience
was with it in the space. And she was like, yeah, it's a
colonizer, which I I don't know what that I don't know what that
means in terms of STI. OK, all right.
But yeah, I got that information and I was just like, OK.
And then when I went and saw my doctor, I talked about this
already but like my doctor didn't even want to say the word
penis. So I was just like oh that's the
kind of care I'm in today. The nurse was much more
comfortable talking about sex and I was asking her like 5
questions and then I was like I'm supposed to ask these to the
doctor, aren't I? She was like yes, I said OK.
And the way she looked was kind of like, oh, you're, you're in
for a treat because he doesn't know anything but.
And he does. Not even say the word penis.
He didn't want, he could have said anything, but he, he chose
to say nothing. So he was explaining to me how
to do the urine test for ureaplasma.
And he was like, yeah, you want to take the cup and we want to
do a clean swab. So what you'll do is you'll wipe
the and then pee in the cup. And I, I think I made this face.
I don't think Sal came out but I just like wait I believe.
In you a review, Sir. So I did it, but when I came
back, he was he was very confident.
I don't know, I don't want to use the word knowledgeable, but
he was very confident in presenting me information.
So I don't know if there's like a medical ChatGPT or something
that he brushed up on real quick, but he was on it and all
of his responses were confusing, 'cause he said like, you can
have it and not know it. There cannot be.
It can show up without symptoms. It can go away on its own.
And it's one of the tricky ones to get tested for.
That was all the information that I got.
And that's like, well, why isn't this on a test?
Like what? What?
Give me more, give me more information.
So I left out of there with probably more questions than
answers that I had. Yeah.
Did you feel like when you were there at the clinic, you were
more confused? You said you left with more
questions. Did you get, I mean, it sounds
like you got some important information, but what do you
feel like where you left with like a lot of question marks?
Yeah, because it was really just a waiting game because the test
took 10 to 14 days. So I'm just like, do I take the
medication now? Like do I assume that I have it?
Like what? What do I do?
And it was just like, well, we don't know, it can go away on
its own. So I was like, well, fuck, I
don't want to take medication for something I don't have.
So all right, I'll just wait the two weeks.
And so, yeah, that was that was the process for me.
It was just a matter of, oh, I have to wait on this.
And then that was it. Oh.
Yeah, it's a long waiting game. I know and I can't imagine what
it was like for you. I mean, we communicated
throughout the process, but how are you and if you're
comfortable with just sharing what that journey was for you
from the time that you found out or you had symptoms?
Yeah, go ahead. It's been a long journey and
still one that is in process. I the blog that I wrote last
week was just a way of kind of condensing the process for me
that I've been in. And I'll be sure to link that.
I'll link that in the show notes as well.
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's been, I mean, you
know, I've been talking to you about the confusion of it and
sending little updates here and there because it has been such a
long process that has required, you know, a good amount of
patience, which is hard for me. So I've been, you know, working
on that personally. But yeah, I have been going
through some other, you know, urethral and vaginal pain that
is could be connected, but you know, for the sake of this
conversation, maybe a little disconnected from, you know,
ureaplasma alone. But that's actually what led me
to get tested for ureaplasma was that I was and still am having
some urethral symptoms. And I get regularly tested,
usually like every three months, sometime sooner depending on the
context or who I'm with. And that's pretty routine for
me. So pretty standard, pretty easy.
But I had a new Doctor who is a urologist, so it was like a
specialist that I had requested to see for some other concerns
that I've been having. And in one of our first
meetings, after telling him a little bit about what I was
experiencing, he suggested that I get tested for some like
weirder St. is and I talk about the end up in the blog and kind
of, you know, criticize a little bit and critique him because
he's not my favorite doctor. I will say definitely not
recommending him. But once I spoke to him and kind
of was like, what do you mean by that?
It let's unpack it a little key recommended that I get tested
for ureaplasma and mycoplasma. And once I got tested for those,
my urine culture sample came back positive.
And then from there, I went into a discussion with him.
But again, my doctor may be similar to yours, didn't really
give me a lot of information. If anything, my doctor gave me
even less than yours because we did an online appointment.
So a lot of appointments now, I think in like the healthcare
system are online. It's like a lot of efficiency.
So I didn't even really see him. I actually still have not seen
him in person. So yeah, like, the information
he gave me was very like, just confusing and not very clear.
And so, yeah, I got the test. It was positive.
I was trying to ask him about what he thinks and kind of like
a larger framework for this. But basically he was like, this
is your only option is to, you know, do this antibiotic
treatment. And so that is what I did.
It was a pretty standard, like 10 day antibiotic treatment.
And, you know, after that you're supposed to wait a given amount
of time, right, to get retested. Every STI is different.
You know, the window of testing and waiting, you know, is unique
to each one. But even that, you know, as I
was doing my own research and speaking with people in like, my
community and trying to gather information for my blog and, and
just for my own healing, like, I really had to do most of the
research and the digging, which was frustrating because, you
know, we, we and I want to be able to, you know, really trust
and like lean on providers and not have to like, carry that
weight alone. But this doctor did not really
carry any, anything in this journey, really.
He's just kind of like there. But yeah, after I got the
treatment, I still was feeling like I had symptoms.
So I was kind of, you know, curious as to what my test would
be and I waited a few weeks and then got retested and it came
back negative. But while I was doing all of
that, I was, you know, disclosing to people, having
conversations and then doing quite a bit of research for my
own self just to kind of really like understand this bacteria at
a in a more intimate way, you know?
Yeah, and it's a good point for me to define what ureaplasma is.
It says here on Google AI mode. Ureaplasma is a group of
microscopic bacteria that naturally live in the human
respiratory and urogenital tracts.
For most people, these bacteria are completely harmless
commensals. Commensals.
I don't know how to say that. I've never seen this word
before. Meaning they exist in a peaceful
balance with the rest of the body's microbiome without
causing any symptoms. However, if the bacteria
multiply excessively and cause an overgrowth, or if a person
has a compromised immune system, they can act as opportunistic
pathogens and lead to localized infections.
Yeah, so. The thing about it is, yeah, is
that like it is a commensal bacteria, which means that it
can live inside the body, in inside of a urogenital tract
without causing like disturbance or like symptoms or any harm
necessarily. So commensal means that when
there is an opportunity, it's like an opportunistic bacteria.
So when there's an opportunity for it to grow, then it will, if
everything is healthy, the pH and all of these things are in
balance, then it won't grow, right?
This bacteria will just stay at like a base level.
And that's why I feel like even the information that I was given
was very confusing because unlike other St. is that you
know, need to be treated immediately and are, you know,
it's the best one. They are treated immediately.
Urea plasma is a little different because it can live
inside like a healthy body, right, without causing
disturbance, but it can also live and cause disturbance,
right? And, and symptoms as well.
And so, yeah, it's, it's definitely a more nuanced
bacteria, right? Yeah.
And as I, you know, look at this, what comes to mind is
something that I've talked about in the past now where I think
that the way that we view viruses, bacteria, parasites and
fungi is so disconnected. Like we associate it with filth
and dirtiness and a lack of cleanliness when it says it
right here that it just lives there and presents no symptoms
like a lot of different things and organisms do.
And it's like no harm, no foul until things are off balance.
And essentially the bacteria is doing the same shit that we do
to the earth. Like we eat, we populate, we
shit, we create ways. And if that happens too fast in
a small localized area, boom, we get inflammation, we get the
spreading of the thing, we get swelling, we get pain, we get
symptoms that just basically says all right, now we got to
treat this thing. So being able to more.
So I don't want to say humanize bacteria necessarily, but look
at just how similar it behaves like we have this whole
ecosystem that is. In on around our bodies and
people are so quick to call themselves or others dirty or
like reckless. And I think that that's one of
those things that perpetuate stigma is the language that we
use and the untruthfulness of what it means to live with a
virus or bacteria or to have an infection.
It's like, OK, now, you know, let's get it treated or manage
it. And that's what we all that it
takes. Yeah, I think that's a good
point, definitely to bring into the conversation.
Yeah. And I think that's where a lot
of fear comes in too. Of course there's, there's like
the spectrum and the levels of fear that are, you know,
important in, in this discussion too.
But I think one element for sure is like the element that the
dirtiness because of this like stigma around in cleanliness,
right? And bacteria, I think that is
definitely an element that brings fear when it could be
different, you know what I mean? Like, it's a lot of, yeah,
bacteria isn't inherently a bad thing, you know what I mean?
And so I think that that can be a definitely a lot more of a
nuanced conversation. And it's sad to see that it
often times isn't, you know what I mean?
Especially like in these types of conversations, right?
Because bacteria is not unique to STI's, right?
So bacteria is like a larger thing and then it enters into,
right, the STI and sexual world too.
So yeah, definitely a good point to bring into the conversation.
Yeah, I, I, I thought I was about to enter like some beef
online with somebody who herpes A parasite.
And I was like, well, herpes does not behave like a parasite.
Parasite thrive at the expense of their host's health.
Like I, I had to explain that and fortunately the back and
forth explanation was healthy and we were online and people
were able to see that. But usually that ain't the case.
Like people aren't, if a lot of times I think people online just
want to be the last one to get, they're going to get the last
word. They want to just be the loudest
and. Just astonish.
It so it's pleasant. I was very I was very happy with
that engagement. All right, so I want to make a
clean transition. It's been a while since I
interviewed anybody on podcast. I'm like it's.
June, it's officially summer in 20 days, so we're in a new we're
in a new moment. We are.
Yeah.
It's been at least a season. Yeah, I think it would have been
free March maybe. Yeah, I don't know.
But I'm I'm out of practice. Yeah, it's OK.
We can we can workshop, but I'll give you a SEC for that
transition. No, well, let's, let's, let's go
ahead and go into. So we talked about Ureaplasma,
we talked about the treatment, we talked about like your
experience and then what my experience was for you having to
initiate the conversation in the communication.
Like I know you said you're used to this, but you and I are both
in the field of sex education, so we're a little bit more
familiar with that. This is a normal conversation.
So I'm curious to know if you and I having the conversation or
are you initiating the text that you did with me?
Like would it be a little bit different if it were someone not
in the space or not familiar with or having the same comfort
level with sexual health as CIS? I don't know if that question's
making sense. I get it.
Yeah, I think, I think it's,
it's important to, for each person to discern like who
they're speaking to and how they want to speak to that person,
right. I think like any level, like a
high level of respect and care should be included, of course.
And like each person you're talking to, you have a different
relationship with, they have you, you know, you have a
different connection with them, you have a, you know, a unique
experience with them perhaps. So I think that like each
conversation can be a little different and shouldn't be
necessarily always the same. And I think it's actually really
hard to have the same conversation with different
people 'cause we're different, you know?
But yeah, I think when I started the conversation with you, it
didn't feel, it felt pretty natural to me.
I think that because you're also in the sexual health and
education kind of umbrella, I had more trust that you would be
able to receive that information, you know, because
of the work that you do and, and your own personal life and how
you connect the work you do to like, you know, your life.
And so I didn't feel, I felt very calm, like disclosing that
information and having that conversation via text.
And I think that with other people in my life who are not,
you know, sexual educators or in this general work, there's also
a level of trust, of course, because these people are in my
life. But it is a little different.
And I would navigate conversations a little bit
differently. Yeah, depending on each person
in my connection with them. Does that make sense?
Yeah. And I'm, I'm glad you said that
because I think that's important too.
All right. Like we were talking a little
bit before this. It may not always be like what
you say, but how you say it too, and the different relationships
being important to the conversation.
And I talked to a lot of people who want to know how to disclose
in the sense of what do I say? And you're having a little bit
of back and forth curiosity where I'm like, OK, well, what's
your relationship to the person? How do y'all communicate?
How do y'all meet? What do y'all do?
And over time, they say exactly what it is that they need to say
to the person, which is always beautiful because I'm not giving
people a script to share this information.
But it's more so just an acknowledgement of what the
relationship is, the person that you're talking to and delivering
the information to them, the way that y'all interact.
Right. I think yeah, having like a
sense of authenticity, you know, and making the conversation feel
like more like you is always helpful for me.
And so I I think it can be helpful for other people.
I think that definitely though, like I have a lot of people in
my life who do want maybe a script or just want to feel more
confident having these conversations.
And I do think that having like a little mock scripts is always
helpful and makes it a little more.
Playful would you be? Yeah.
Would you be like a little box script?
Can you give? Me, I remember in the beginning
of my journey before, you know, I was studying and in the work
that I am in now, just when I was, you know, 18 year old, 19
year old me just living life and having my, you know, sexual
endeavors. I, yeah, I was a very sexual
person and I wanted to explore a lot and I was naturally curious
about a lot. And so I would have a lot of
conversations and, you know, have a had a lot of experiences.
And I feel like I made little scripts for myself because I
didn't know anybody who had herpes at the time.
I knew maybe like one person and most of the people that I, that
I was having sex with didn't have herpes or any STI.
So I kind of felt alone in the journey.
And so I would make myself little scripts and then, you
know, sometimes I'd practice them, sometimes I would edit
them. Sometimes I didn't have a script
in in the moment. Of course, just, you know, what
would come out came out. But I do think that it kind of
helped me refine like what words I like to use and that feel good
for me, Not necessarily in a way where it's like a copy paste.
And, and now I'm not like letting myself be authentic for
like what I want to say in the moment, but more as a way of
like, yeah, like when you're in theater and you have a little
script and then you go off script a little, but you have a
little like base template to like make you feel good.
And you can choose what you want to include on the script.
You know, it's can be empowering 'cause it's not like somebody's
giving you a script and you're forced to read it.
It's more like you are creating the script.
And I think that that can be useful for people who are less
familiar with these conversations, who struggle
getting words out, you know, who struggle with communication.
So it's, it's an idea. It's it's served me in in
different moments of my life for sure.
Yeah, I never thought about that.
Like I, I think I've always been the kind of person to just like
I'm going to do the thing and then adjust for next time.
And that should got me in trouble.
Actually, nothing. I'm thinking about it, but
because you can recalibrate in such an extreme to where right
the way that I deliver information to one person,
they'd be like, I wish you would have done it this way.
And I'm like, all right, bet moving forward, I'll deliver it
this way. But then the next person you
deliver the information to, which is that you would have
done it the original way and authenticity being the word that
you use. I see the importance of that,
the importance of, Hey, you know, there's no right or wrong.
There's real and not real in in this context, right?
Like we're not talking about ethics.
We're talking about and delivering the information.
You can do it in an authentic way or an inauthentic way.
And so the only wrong way is to deliver it in a way that's not
true to you. And if you're somebody who, you
know, you use certain words, right, and you know, the
relationship, you may say it a little bit differently, right?
So, yeah, I, I appreciate that offering.
So there's a perspective that is helpful to anybody who likes
goods. Yeah, and like also too, I think
when I say scripts, I don't mean to like universalize anything.
Like I think that's not useful for anyone.
Of course, like the way you speak is going to be different
than the way I speak because of our identities that we hold, the
way we even view language, the languages we may even know.
Like, it goes deep, you know? And so scripts can I, when I say
scripts, I really do mean like, you know, take what serves you
and leave what doesn't 'cause if I were to create a script and
you were to read it, you might be like, oh, this is a great
script for you. But like, how would, why would I
say this? You know what I mean?
And I'm sure the way that I speak is not the way that you,
you know, speak. And so if you were to make a
script for me, maybe there was some pieces that I would, you
know, relate to and others that I wouldn't.
So scripts can be edited, you know.
Yeah. All right.
So if somebody wants to make their own script, where should
they start? Yeah, well, I was thinking about
this and writing this, you know, reflecting about this a little
bit in my blog about, you know, urea plasma and then, right,
disclosing and the conversation and, you know, when it happens
via text versus in person and all of those elements.
And yeah, I think that disclosing any sort of change in
our body can be anxiety producing or, you know, can
create complicated feelings, whether that's a new pain that
we have or something even maybe beautiful and more positive or,
you know, an STI, right. So I think anytime there's a
change there, you know, is just newness, right?
And I know that like in my disclosure journey, I have
edited and come a long way in the types of conversations that
I have with people and how I engage in these conversations.
And just like you said, there's no like, right way to do it.
Of course, there are some ways that are very hurtful and
disrespectful. And like, you know, there's
certain elements that are, I think like important to add into
a conversation, but I don't really think there is one right
way, like you said, to have these conversations.
And yeah, I think that in making a script, what I like to think
about is, yeah, what I like to think about is my personality.
I like to think about the experiences I've had.
I like to think about like what identities I hold cuz all of
these things already naturally influence the work that I do and
how I move everyday. And I think that's the beauty of
people holding identities and having these identities mix,
right? And so I would yeah, just like
sit down and be like, OK, what? Like what are a few words I
would use to describe my personality?
You know, am I naturally more like spunky and talk and this
kind of way? Am I naturally a little bit more
shy and quiet or, you know, like, what are some ways, you
know, that you could describe your personality?
Like I would start there and then, you know, talk and think
through maybe some experiences I've had that are like notable
that come to mind, some identities that I hold that are,
you know, relevant and like just kind of let all of those things
sit together and then be like, what could I make from this, you
know? And so an example of that, let's
say, is an example that I don't do anymore, but my old script
just for like inspo or just to kind of visualize, I guess, was
when I was younger, I identified as fully extroverted, like very
spunky, very like outgoing. So that would be like a
personality element, right? Of like, OK, I know that I have
conversations usually with that in mind and people like can feel
that, right? And then I had some identities
that I was holding at the time, right?
Of being a highly sexual person at the time and really wanting
to explore, but also this new identity of having herpes and
feeling, you know, shame. And I had a lot of other
identities being a woman and amongst many other things.
So I was holding all of that in, in there as well.
And I also had the more personal emotional identity of being like
the caretaker in a lot of dynamic dynamics.
And that came into play when I had conversations of any kind
often. And so that my beginning script
that I would often do was like in the very beginning of the
conversation, it would be like very spunky and outgoing and
very like talkative. I would bring that like
personality into it. And then towards the middle when
I started getting into the like, OK, I have herpes and the kind
of the shame and that kind of new identity would get brought
in somehow into the conversation and the stigma would come in
there. And then I would put on that
caretaker role and like really jam packed the conversation with
like all the facts and all the details as a way to like be
caring for the other person and really like putting them above
me in, in a way of like what they might need in the
conversation, right? So like really giving it all the
facts and all the resources and like everything you may need to
know and even about me, just like spilling so much, right?
So I give this example not as like something that I do now,
but as you know, holding tenderness for a script that I
did have that worked for me at the time because of what I was
exploring at the time that felt authentic to me in the moment.
If I were to do that now, it wouldn't feel.
But again, even authenticity comes in waves and like we
change all the time as people so.
I remember an old text that I've sent and like parts of it, and
it's funny in hindsight. I've never used it yet, but
remember I, I, I talked about it in the No Shame in This Game
documentary, and it always gets a good chuckle.
But I used to send a text and be like, all right, hey, before you
fall madly in love with me, I got something I need to tell
you. I need to tell you I got herpes,
right? Because I'm such an awesome
person. I want you to be able to make
that decision from a place of like not being madly in love
with me. And on one hand it's like, oh,
this is a confident ass person. But then on the other hand, I'm
like offering this as a disclaimer.
In a way. And it made the process of
initiating that discussion, right feel like a disclosure,
right? When you sign in Google
documents. And it always would make like a
me verse you dynamic when the reality is that we're talking
about our sexual health together.
So thinking about it as a conversation rather than a
confession or a discussion rather than a disclosure is how
to make it a collaborative effort.
It's me and you, you know, collaborating with this event,
which is our sexual health, right?
Checking in with you on time, how much time you got.
So I can. Yeah, I feel.
Like I got, I feel like I got a good 10-15 minutes.
We can get into some juicy things and then you know.
Yeah, yeah, let's, let's plan the close it out thing at the
top of or the half the 30, whatever. 30 is for.
You. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right. Is there anything else that you
want to make sure that we cover before, like closing things out?
Yeah. I mean, I think that we got
into, you know, the the basics here.
I'm curious about your Yeah, you're, you said that.
I mean, in the beginning we talked a little bit about like
our conversation. How did, how do you feel as a,
you know, sex educator, sexual health educator in the field,
like receiving the text that I sent?
And I don't know, I like what you just said about, you know,
it is a conversation. It's not a confession and I like
the alliteration there. It's like the two C's.
It's just I really like that phrase.
It's not a confession. Like I don't know why we're all
feeling like, and I've been there, you know, it's no shame.
But why are it's like so confession based, you know, like
we're not out here confessing like it's it's it's Co created.
You know what I mean? This is actually, you know, Co
created. And so yeah, how did you feel
about my text and how are you feeling now?
And, you know, kind of, I guess this was about maybe a month, a
little over a month ago, month and a half ago.
So yeah, just checking in. Yeah, I appreciate that.
The way that I felt about the communication.
Is that what you how I felt about the communication or how I
felt period? What'd you read?
In general, yeah. And then like adding in like
that we're, you know, that we're both sexual health educators and
all this stuff too, like adding that in there.
That's never happened where somebody reached out to me and
said hey. You, I might have something.
I might have exposed you to it. You should get it.
I'm thinking about it now and I'm running through and no, it's
just not happened. Yeah, I've had people, you know,
tell me they have herpes for and I first, and I always fuck with
them about it. Like if I don't have to say
anything first, especially if the person has no idea who I am,
I'm always like, oh, doesn't everybody have that?
Like, I'll just say something like that.
And it's a fun space to be in when, you know, someone doesn't
know what I do or who I am or like, yeah, so I get to, like,
play the role of a civilian in the sexual conversation space.
And I'm not the educator or the caretaker in that sense.
Right. So.
Yeah, I remember having to have a committee, a committee, I
can't even say the word, a chlamydia conversation with
partners. And that was received well, but
I expected that to be received poorly.
And it makes me think, like a lot of the people that I talked
to have the expectation that when they tell someone they have
herpes, that they're going to have a drink thrown in their
face, that they're going to be blasted on the Internet.
And that is literally never been my experience for as many times
as I've told people that I have herpes or even in sharing with
somebody or my partners at the time that I had chlamydia or
even having to discuss ureaplasma.
So there are three instances of this kind of this discussion
initiation where nothing bad has happened.
It's actually just led to, you know, beautiful experiences
later and conversations and you know, you see that there can be
healthy communication. So how I felt was like grateful,
like the gratitude of being the kind of person that, all right,
you feel like you can tell that too.
Because I think being a straight man, being a straight black man,
let me say that 'cause I know that a lot of the people that I
talked to who have experiences with straight black men, they're
like, oh, I can never say that. Or, oh, I didn't realize you
were this open minded. And I get a lot of those kinds
of conversations just because of the stigma, stereotypes that
come with being a black man and the expectations of not being
able to communicate, I guess. But yeah, it it was just
validating for me to to be seen as a person that can be
communicated with about something vulnerable.
And yeah, I was just grateful for it.
Yeah, me as well. Yeah, grateful for sure.
Grateful for sure and I think it's very important yeah to to
acknowledge our identities and what people may project on to us
because of that. Like I think that's very
important in the in sex work and sexual health work and and, and
creating intimacy with others. You know, it's like we all have
different experiences and because of that, that people may
project things onto US. You know, like you just said, a
lot of people don't assume maybe that you are going to be open
about this because of the stereotypes of, you know, being
a black man who is, you know, straight.
And so it's like, what does it mean to hold that identity,
right? Yeah.
As far as now, yeah, like having had the experience and just been
on the other side of it and having the conversations with
the other partners that I've had, I feel, yeah, like I'm, I,
I know a little bit more about something that I didn't know
about, and it's nice to be able to be able to speak to it.
This thing that I had no idea existed.
And I even had that come up in a conversation with someone, I was
like, yeah, I was just for these things.
And yeah, urea plasma as well recently, and a lot of people
don't know about that. Oh yeah, that one sucks.
Like I have a friend who and you'd be surprised at what
happens when we initiate and invite these kinds of
conversations into our life. Like, everybody want to,
everybody want to fuck, but don't nobody want to talk about
fucking, right? I know.
And that is an important piece that we can I think end today
and really like discuss a little bit because yeah, I noticed that
a lot. I know we've talked about that a
lot. And I think that like beyond
like the accuracy of getting tested and like all of the like,
more logistical things that sometimes need to be included in
these kinds of conversations, right?
And like spreading and, you know, all of that, all of that.
I think that there's also an element of, yeah, like
connecting with people and having these conversations and
just like doing it in a way that feels connected, right?
Beyond giving the like the facts and the necessary info.
It's like, can we can we have these conversations before
having sex that actually make us want to have sex like that make
us feel inspired and, and it doesn't need to be a chore.
And I feel like a lot of times and I understand why it can't
feel like that. Like it is heavy and it's OK for
it to be heavy, you know, doesn't need to be light all the
time. But like, can we make these
conversations feel lighter when there is space for it to be
lighter? And can we make them feel sexy?
Because I don't know where along the along the way conversations,
I guess just got seen as not sexy.
And I've had people in my life who like have never had a
conversation before sex. And I think a lot of people
operate with with that, with that path, you know, where it's
the conversation maybe is after, if anything.
And I want conversations to be sexy for people, if that's what
I'm here to do, you know what I mean?
And I know that you agree with that.
Yeah, absolutely. I was laughing over there
because I was thinking of like when you said conversations
happening after because like people will have sex and then
like you had that post nut clarity and you're like oh shit.
And you ain't got nothing. Do you like do you have anything
after just not using a condom at all?
Right, like now you want to have this conversation?
Well, I don't know. So that was just why I was
laughing if that shows up on the video.
But yes, the conversation doesn't need to be dreaded.
I always say it can be playful, right?
Like you, you eat a lot of fruit, right?
So it can be like a ooh, damn, I'm trying to be that fruit.
What's up? Like, yeah, hey, you know, it
could be. Playful, exactly.
And like discerning too. Like if it doesn't like not
forcing it to be playful, if the energy of everybody involved is
heavy that day, make it heavy, you know what I mean?
But if the energy can be playful and it can be light, like it can
go down that path, we don't it doesn't need to be heavy because
it is inherently a conversation about sex.
You know what I mean? And yeah, like having these
conversations is hard. I think that we both, you know,
talk to folks in our work. And that is echoed right in a
lot of people's experiences. But yeah, if I could, if I could
help myself and help other folks, like I just would really
love it if we could all, you know, as a, as a community, as a
society, be a little bit more open to saying things out loud,
you know, to saying what we want out loud, right?
Yeah. And that's it.
Ah, yeah, more conversations can be had from this, but we, we
close them out at that window. But yeah, speaking about not
just the safety piece, but the pleasure piece, sex is supposed
to be fine. And I think people forget that.
And roller coasters are fine if you just, like, run on a roller
coaster and you don't recognize the possible outcomes of what
happens if you just run up the racks of the roller coaster, you
might get hit. But there's all these safety
protocols that are in place and, you know, they actually just
strap up, put your belt on and enjoy the ride, right?
So balancing out the spectrum of safety and pleasure, and I don't
really like using the word safety because it implies an
inherent danger, but that's the best word we got right now,
right? And language is important.
So recognizing that safe sex is commutative sex, and that is how
we also begin to expand into that bubble of pleasure as well.
So if I were to leave this off at any kind of a note, I think
it would be that say sex is commutative sex.
And thank you for your communication.
You are welcome, thank you for yours.
And yeah, conversations can be sexy.
I'll just leave it at that. They don't have to be, but they
can be you. Know and how can people connect
with you? Yeah, if people want to connect
with me, they can follow me on Instagram at Pomegranate
Pleasure and reach out to me on there.
They can read some of my blog, which is everything juicy.
It's a Wix site. It's also linked on my Instagram
and they can find it through this podcast or if they want to
e-mail me they can also e-mail me as well.
I have a e-mail that is open to folks if they want to e-mail me
and it is pomegranate pleasure. TW for tamarweir@gmail.com.
All right. Thank you so much.
Thank you. That concludes this episode of
Something Positive for positive people.
Please like rate review, share, subscribe to this podcast, the
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So you can be up to speed with our updates and events.
August 30th, we have the Herpes Stigma Expo in New York City.
So come through, we're going to be doing some yoga stuff to help
with stigma. We're going to have guest
speakers. We're going to have Jordan
Jones, the podcast host of Vaginas, Vulvas and Vibrators,
who's going to do a fun pleasure based activity for us.
And then we'll do some role plays where people can get
practice talking about their sexual health status with
partners. We'll have some prizes and gift
cards for people who want to be in our social media script.
And yeah, we'll have food and it'll be a good time.
All right, until next time y'all stay present.