Hello, welcome to Something Positive for Positive People.
I'm Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive
People. It's a 501-C3 nonprofit
organization supporting people who are navigating herpes
statement. I want to make a couple of
announcements real quick, and I will try and keep this as brief
as possible as we approach our 400th podcast episode.
I believe this one's 388. So we're about 12 weeks out from
that event, which we will be celebrating Episode 400.
It's a talent show slash karaoke.
If you follow me on Instagram, you know, I've been on the
karaoke kick lately. I've been practicing dancing.
So yeah, I might get up there and show a little show a little
something off, you know? And this is going to be December
12th in Brooklyn, NY. The address will be given upon
registration. The zip code is, I believe 11206
is is close to there. It's close to there if you're
familiar with New York. If you Google The House NYC or
The House Brooklyn, then you'll know where it is, but that's the
venue. It's on Friday, December 12th
from 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM and this is something that I would like
to be able to do more often. I just created a landing page
for people who stumble across something positive when they
look for herpes related things in New York City to be able to
find community 'cause I like doing that kind of shit things.
I like doing those kinds of things and I want to do it more
regularly with people that I think are supportive to the
cause of minimizing herpes stigma, who, you know, really
just want to like take this and learn from it and be able to
heal and move forward. On Mondays at 7:30 PM.
Eastern Time, we have our virtual herpes support groups.
There's one for women, there's one for men, and they alternate.
So the first and third Monday women, the second and fourth
men. I had someone send me a text
actually and I was very surprised that this came from
this person about the way that I promoted the groups on TikTok
specifically and I thought that I just was exaggerating that the
groups were separated. Men group, women's group.
I don't have the experience nor do I have the resources to be
able to facilitate a non binary or trans only group.
I didn't think I needed to say this, but if you're a trans man,
you would come to the men's group.
If you're a trans woman, you would come to the women's group.
Before identities that fall outside of men and women, there
is not something that isn't like created that only tailors to
those identities. So yeah, I don't know if that
was misinterpreted at all, but I like to think that over the last
eight years I've shown some type of allyship and understanding.
But yeah, I don't know, maybe it was just my exaggeration on men
and women that was misinterpreted.
But the support groups are there, and there are also
alternatives for people who are looking for more queer and LGBT
experiences. I have that linked on the
website as well. And I think that's it as far as
announcements go. If I think of anything else at
the end of the podcast episode, I will, if I don't forget it,
mention it. If you haven't already taken the
survey, just go to the survey tab on the site.
There's a banner up right now that is easy to find.
It pops up in your face when you go to the website to take our
survey. All right now I have a guest.
I put that podcast episode out and I was like, yo, I need help.
Like I, I, I'm I'm running out of stuff to talk about, running
out of things to say. I can start sharing my
experiences, but I'll be honest, I'm I've been a little bit
hesitant to be as open about my personal experiences because
I've been out of a relationship now for seven months.
I think the breakup was in February.
It's been seven months. It's been like I've moved on and
there is a healing process, but like there's still a remnants of
me that is a little bit hesitant and resistant to share my dating
experiences and like what's happening for me.
If you've listened to other podcast episodes, you know why.
But yeah, I, I some, I've been called out for hiding in a way.
So it's ain't me, you know, necessarily doing that, but I'm
just figuring out ways to respectfully for the like
respecting the integrity of the relationships that I have, as
well as being mindful of, like not putting myself in a position
for somebody to think that they know me and then kind of get
into my life in such a way. Like I, I, I got to be careful
with that. And so I'm working on how to
navigate that. And really in therapy, he's like
my therapist who I can't stand. Shout out to Derek, but he's
right. Like he's great at his job.
I can't say I'm my therapist, but he's great at his job.
He's been telling me, hey, you, you really just need to you, you
do what's for you and you can't be not doing what's best for you
because of your concerns about other people.
And I'm like, ah, that's so much easier said than that.
But we got a podcast guest here that is probably going to
reflect back to me the importance of that.
So I'm going to let you introduce yourself how you want
to be introduced. And then of course, first
question is how do we connect? And we'll just go into the
conversation from there. But I'm rusty, so give me, give
me great. Perfect.
Yeah, I'm Rachel and I it's funny you mention your therapist
because that's how I found out about something positive for
positive people. I am obsessed with my therapist.
She is a gem of a human, even though she also does frustrate
me, but I love her and she texted me, which I feel like
when you get to a texting relationship with your
therapist, you're like, this is real.
So she texted me and she's like, not sure if you've heard of
this. Like I feel like for homework,
maybe check it out. And I'm like, great.
And I went to the website and it was immediately just like, it
was the first time experiencing something of like similar to
this. And I just feel like it was, to
sound slightly cheesy, like the most like positive initial
experience I had kind of since getting the diagnosis and
feeling like there's just so few resources or so few people I can
connect with. And so I pretty quickly like
signed up to do a support call. So you and I connected through
that Channel and weirdly, I think I mentioned before, I was
like, right when I went to the website, I was so drawn to like
be a podcast guest because I like to do podcasts and I work
in a different industry and I just like love to talk and hop
on podcasts. And I think this is so
important. And the podcast episodes I have
listened to, it has genuinely been so valuable for me because
I think anyone to date that I've shared with in the past two plus
years since I've had the diagnosis, they don't personally
share the experience. And so I think the benefit of
being able to hear people's stories and talk to people.
Like after the support call, I said to my therapist, I was
like, it was like catching up with someone and talking about a
new restaurant we had both been to.
And like the normalcy of how that felt was so important for I
think where I was at and where I want to continue to get to and
be. Because again, I think it's like
the deep down of like, it's not a big deal, but the stigma's
pretty bad. And I think just continuing to
do the work and do the things to be in a better place kind of
internally and, and kind of, you know, who I choose to share it
with and, and all that good stuff.
So. Can I record that for a
commercial? No, I'm just kidding.
Sure. Thank.
You for that I I just appreciate the process.
Shout out to your therapist. I'm glad that these resources
are making it to the people that are the initial contact points
of being able to get people going into the direction of
talking about this. So in your case, you obviously
shared with your therapist that you have herpes and I hear from
a lot of people that they don't want to do that.
Typically they don't want to ruin the relationship or to be
judged by their therapist. And I'm just like, what else
aren't you telling your? Therapist.
Yeah. Yeah.
In your case, what inspired you to share this with your
therapist? Just for anybody listening who
might not want to do that. Yes, that is that's actually so
interesting because I there wasn't even a thought in my
mind. It was the first person
potentially. It's like hard to look back.
I received the diagnosis and I received like a pamphlet that
was like your life's not over for back the factor and I was
like opposite effect. This is having currently in my
life and I kind of like panicked.
I'm in shock. I'm dealing with the emotions of
it. And I text my therapist.
I'm like, hey, we're going to need to bump it up to weekly
appointments. And I didn't tell her in the
message, but I was like, I knew mentally I need like as
frequently as I can see this woman.
And the hard part was at the time of the diagnosis and as
this is all happening, I was newly laid off.
I was like going through a lot of other things in my life where
I think there was already the stress of like affording, I
mean, life, but but also therapy.
And so I think that's the other reason where I'm grateful I have
a really solid therapist, a good relationship with her where
she's like, I don't want that to be a barrier.
Whatever you can pay, you can pay.
We'll make it work kind of thing.
So I'm lucky in that regard. But she was one of the first
people that I at least tapped of like me kind of just starting to
build my network because I didn't tell.
It took me a long time to tell anyone.
Like I just kind of sat with it and basically was just talking
to her about it, you know, dealing with the emotions and
then it from there. Still have kept it fairly close.
But you know, told two of my best friends, told my mom and
sister, told a person I ended up then dating.
So, you know, it's there's like 6 people in my life that know,
which feels wild. But I'm grateful that like she's
one of them and she's certainly helped me progress.
And I guess just like my experience with the internal
stigma and just like working on different ways to feel better
about the situation. Yeah, you, you just mentioned
something that I I struggled with with therapy cost barrier.
So for me, on one hand, it was like, OK, I need to like save my
money, but also if I'm not in a good place to be able to do the
things I need to do to make money, then whereas it, it's a
paradox, right? I need therapy so I can afford
therapy, but I can't afford therapy.
And because of that, I need therapy as well.
And what I've found is that I, I have found someone who works for
me and works with me because a lot of things ebb and flow.
Like we are in a time where the government is currently shut
down here in the United States and a lot of people are having
to go to work and they're not being paid.
There's things to do, you know, around that.
But I everybody don't have access to that.
And so I guess like, what for you made the paying for therapy
more of a priority than perhaps other things that you might have
used your money for to cope or just like get by?
Yeah, I think it's a funny, it hasn't always been that way.
I think like I was introduced to therapy at a really young age
and I like hated it. And I was always like really
anti therapy and then took kind of like a hiatus for a while and
just like went through some therapists I didn't love.
And so found this woman and just immediately like we, we just
clicked right away, which I do think is helpful and can be hard
to find, but it was 1 where it's hard to identify exactly what it
was. I think it was just something
where in the exact moment that I got the results back from the
test and saw the diagnosis of herpes, I quite literally within
an hour texted my therapist. It just was so immediate.
And it was like, weirdly, the financial component was kind of
out of my head because I think it was a dire feeling of like,
it did feel like my life was over.
I think like in that moment, I was like, this is like the worst
case scenario. This is, you know, the dramatic
thing I've played up in my head for whatever reason.
And I think in in that moment, yeah, I knew I was like, I am,
you know, don't have a job, have a new health diagnosis.
I like a lot of things are happening in my world that I was
like, well, I need to be OK and I need to take care of me to
then be able to do all these other things.
And so that was, I mean, completely just worth it in that
moment. And I think I'm also grateful in
that like, I rent, I don't have a car payment.
I don't, you know, I don't have these other major expenses.
So I was able to make it work. And, you know, who knows where I
saved money on less coffees and food or different things.
But so we need to work that way. Yeah, thank you for sharing
that. For me, I think that what it
came down to was I just had to inconvenience myself a little
bit in other areas where I did end up going to the grocery
store more consistently and I started to cook more.
But these were also things that I enjoyed and liked doing,
right? Like maybe I don't go out to a
restaurant or maybe like I, I, oh, I don't have time.
I need to da, da, da. All they did was make me plan
differently. Like I had to make plans for how
I was going to eat and then grocery shop and then like being
mindful of laundry and the cost of those things.
Because it, there's a lot of stuff that if we're not paying
attention to it, like those subscriptions, they add up.
And I notice why am I paying $200 for a phone bill when
everything that I need can cost me as low as 40 something
dollars a month, right? So, yeah, I, I, I feel that.
And that was kind of my thing too.
And it was a cycle of doing what I needed to do for myself.
Let me be able to do more for myself.
It's like the more you do a thing, the better you get at it.
And I think that going into therapy made me better for
wanting to be in therapy and then being in therapy made me
better at doing the things that outside of there.
I have one more question related to therapy and then I want to
know what brought you here. And that is something that I've
struggled with in the past, has been becoming too dependent on
my therapist, right? You got your diagnosis where
you're like, let me text my therapist.
Where at what point? Like if we're in a situation
where you know something's happening real time, Oh my God,
I didn't tell my therapist. And then we wait a week to like
deal with the thing or bring it up and nothing's happening with
it. We're just in kind of a time out
until we talk to therapy and then come back to it.
Where's the line between that and the progression of your
experience in therapy to where when you're touched with a
situation that you would normally like need to talk to
your therapist about, you're able to address there?
Do you have any words about that?
I do. I think it's one where I think
even beyond like being more like frequently going to therapy or
just, you know, really finding the right person, I'm always
someone who I'm just like fascinated by like mental health
and psychology and all the like. I've always like exclusively
kind of like read nonfiction on that topic.
So I think I'm someone who like, I almost didn't maybe even give
myself credit. Like I know the tools, like I
know the things that are like valuable and helpful when like
something, you know, comes up that's outside of my control,
which is life. And I feel like it's, I love
having like the progression and the relationship and the like
camaraderie almost with like this therapist that I've now
been going to for almost like 5 years at this point.
But I also like she even has had in her own personal life like
things lately where we've had to like push out appointments.
And there was like a big gap recently.
And it's like I was OK. And I was able to kind of make
those things work. And I still want to stay
consistent with it. But I think it's kind of like, I
think there's a timeline, at least for me.
And I like to imagine other people experience that if like
you're going to therapy and you're checking that box and
you're doing that thing and you're investing in it.
But it's like then also taking that and like doing the things
that you're learning and that you're talking about.
And I think there's unfortunately a little bit of
lag time there. But I think now I'm at a point
where it's like, I've been in it for so long and I so like even a
lot more recently, I was like, I am so tired of like feeling the
way that I feel about this diagnosis that I cannot change
and cannot cure. So I just want to figure out
what I need to do to feel better.
And I know that's not just me going to therapy.
Like that includes other things. Yeah.
Thank you. And that that works because I
was, we made this joke with a friend of mine, like we both
stopped going to therapy before we got into a relationship and
we talked and we were like, man, if we were in therapy throughout
that relationship, we wouldn't have been in that relationship.
And that, that the conversations that my therapist and I have
been having like to process the ending of that relationship
because I've been seeing them sometimes twice a week and other
time. Well, now we're in.
Now at this point it's every other week just because like
there's not much to talk about for me week to week.
And what we're working on just doesn't require every week
sessions anymore, which I'm grateful for because right like
now and start, you know, putting my money towards other things.
Like I was able to get a massage last night and that felt good.
Like I needed that deep tissue. And yeah, yeah.
It was good for me. So let's talk about, you know,
your diagnosis, 23rd 2023 of August, right after The Dirty
30. That takes a whole new meaning
to The Dirty 30, don't it? Sure does it sure does.
And I'm grateful that it was after my 30th because I feel
like I was like I like celebrated my 30th and that it
was like quick like quick after. But all that to say, it was in
my experience, there was like a build up to it.
So I, you know, obviously looking back didn't know in the
moment that this happened, but I got BV 1st and I never had that
before. And so like went to the doctor.
I think I got like an antibiotic to clear that up, but I had a
really negative reaction to that antibiotic.
I started having like Vertigo and just feeling like absolute
shit. And so to offset that I was on,
I was basically for three months just like so, so sick.
So it was like BV strep throat reactions to this medication
that I was taking. I'm weirdly sensitive to any and
all medication always. So it was not great.
And then even after all that, I was noticing like some
discomfort and like a sore that I had never experienced before.
And of course I'm researching to be like, what else could it?
Because I think like my, my mind went there, but I was like, no,
no, like this can't be what that is.
And so I like messaged my doctor and she's like, I would like for
you to come in so I can check this out.
It sounds like immediately she's like, it sounds like herpes.
And I was like, and so go in, do the test.
I think at the time I, and I was surprised I did this, but I
think I even reached out to my mom and I was like going, she
knew how sick I had been. And I was like going through all
this. There's a chance it could be
this. I'm freaking out.
Can you come into the city? And when I get the results, like
we can like open them together because I'm so nervous about it.
And then I like couldn't end up waiting.
So like I, I ended up like opening it and seeing the the
result and she like got in and I like shared it with her.
But I mean, it was like this drawn out process in so many
ways, just of all the different things like my body was going
through and I was going through and I was feeling awful.
And then it like all kind of like looking back, it was all
related. And it was after like a night, a
long day of day drinking turned into a girls night turned into
another like it was like an unfortunately messy like now,
this was not from someone that I was in a relationship with.
This is someone I met that day. This is someone that, you know,
looking back took advantage of. I was lit like just absolutely.
So like there's definitely like also trauma included in, you
know, the diagnosis itself. Like there that was hard for me
to kind of get past. But I think it's also looking
back now. It's something that, you know,
in, in all things. I'm like, OK, let's see.
I try to see, I try to stay positive.
I try to see a silver lining and things.
And I think it's taking some time.
But it's also something that through this diagnosis, I have
been grateful in the fact that I have had two outbreaks in over 2
years. So it's not something physically
that I deal with on a frequent basis.
It's type 1, which I've heard may or may not mean less
frequency about breaks, different things.
But it's certainly, I guess it's, it's forced me to be like,
all right, I, I'm always someone who I teach fitness classes, I
take care of myself. I'm into health and Wellness,
but I was like, I wasn't really taking care of myself.
And I think that was like came to fruition.
And I think now I'm truly able to say like, I take so much
better care of myself. And that's certainly been a
reflection of this diagnosis. Kind of like bringing that to
light and and you know, wanting, making me want to do it even
more. Yeah, as I'm I'm reading through
what you wrote and I'm like, oh, OK, that that and you're you're
covering everything. So I'm so two years.
How has dating been for you? What is dating look like?
Yeah, I, I you made a phone. Like it's it's dating.
I got the diagnosis in August of 2023.
I spent a month living in Portugal in October of 2023,
which was like a pre planned thing I was doing.
While on that trip I both met someone that I was like we like
really hit it off like spend a week together whatever, shared
it with him. He did not react well, which
like was like my first like you know potential partner sharing
this with and it was like not ideal.
And then weirdly, also on that trip, someone that I had been
seeing previously, like long time friend, but like him and I
had hooked up during the pandemic, there had been kind of
like this on and off again, like will they won't?
They reached out to me on my trip and was like, basically
like, I want to do this for real, whatever.
And I'm sitting there like all excited, something I've been
wanting to hear for a long time. But then I'm like, oh, but now I
have this new diagnosis that's like new information.
And so I get back from my trip, we reconnect, we like go on a
couple dates and I'm like, you know, like normally we would
hook up right away. And I'm kind of like hesitant
because I hadn't, I had shared it, I guess, with the one person
in Portugal and they react poorly and I share it with them.
And they were just like, you know, I don't know a lot about
this, but like, I'm not going anywhere and all this stuff.
And we're like, which in my mind I was like, OK, best case
scenario, like they're not reacting poorly.
We like end up dating. We dated for almost a year.
And what I will say is I think the timing of it all was helpful
in that moment because I don't know if I would have truly been
ready to like deal with all the emotions and all the things.
Like I think dating someone so quickly after the diagnosis and
someone who also didn't share the diagnosis but accepted it
and didn't reject it was so beneficial because during that
relationship, like I did not feel, I, I didn't think about
it. It was like the only time period
kind of since that I was like, I didn't, I didn't think everyday
like I have this diagnosis that's like, you know, changes
things. And we broke up last October And
that's when it hit me. Like I was like, oh, shit.
Like, like I was like, now I have to like meet new people and
put myself out there and like do all this stuff.
And I think right from that I went on some dates with people
and I found myself like kind of cutting myself off before it
like progressed into anything physical.
Can we talk about that, that self rejection that happened?
Yes. How we manage that?
Because I recognize this for myself too.
And I used to think that it was because, oh, I'm too big of a
personality or I'm too intense. And it's amazing what we tell
ourselves just coming from what other people have told us, but
is what we know to be true about ourselves.
And that's often times where the rejection comes from.
It's a lingering rejection that is outside of ourselves.
And I guess I'm feeling a little brave so I can like share
something that I've noticed from myself recently.
I have a roommate who's very social and is always like
trying. He's hyping me up and always
trying to put me on introducing me to people.
And he'll he'll just have you met Courtney?
Like if you ever say How I Met, How I Met your mother, like I
met tenant. Yeah, yeah.
Very bad and I'm I catch myself like having been so focused on
this isn't the setting like that person Probably not here.
And I think back to social media like a lot of times on social
media, if I'm just watching stories or scrolling through and
I'm seeing what people post. A lot of what I've been seeing
lately is like women bashing men for coming up and talking to
them or like I don't bothered. I'm just here to dance.
I'm just here to socialize. I'm not here to meet people.
And I think that I've internalized that so much that
I'm just like, oh, she doesn't want to be bothered.
And I just shy away from it. And I know that that isn't
always true, but also the only way to really know is to ask.
And that didn't really occur to me until very like recently.
It's like, oh, I'm approaching this interaction with the
outcome in mind that we're going to not even like not even
exchange names, not even how's your night?
Not even who do you know, right? The the small talk casual stuff.
I'm bypassing all of that and getting to the point of, you
know, after the interaction where she goes home, goes to
social media or the group chat and says, this guy tried to talk
to me ill and I'm like, oh, so I just prevent that from happening
after playing that entire scenario in my head briefly.
Yep. 100%. Right, that's my self rejection,
which has nothing to do with herpes.
It's that, but that's and that's.
Kind of the interesting part, I think that is like that I think
is something I realized so much more recently of kind of like.
But then it's like a nice, I don't know, I try to see.
I think it's been a buffer that I maybe needed before of just
like, it's not as if like because I was more of like a
relationship person previously. And I think like, I also kind of
went through like a year or so where it was a lot more just
like a lot of different sexual experiences and like really
having fun and like putting myself out there and trying
different things. And I feel like now I just feel
like I'm like, what do I do now? Like it just, it just feels
different. But I know so much of that is
like, it's not as if people aren't, you know, asking me out
or, you know, like pursuing me. And I, I finally just 'cause I
was like, I should fucking try it.
I joined like one of the dating apps that's like specific to.
I love how you say 1 of like there's any more than just the
one that exists. I well, fair.
I was like, I don't know, I think I.
You know, we don't have the we will not say their name.
You know, I'm banned. I'm banned off of that.
Oh yeah, the e-mail tried to get reinstated.
I've been like, hey, what do I need to do?
Y'all? Y'all got I don't.
Know if you're missing anything? I have been on that thing for
two weeks and I'm like, this is there's no one like there's like
4 people in my city like so I'm just kind of like.
So people have been proposing that a lot of these profiles
aren't even real people. That's what I also kind of
worry. About yeah, yeah, like you'll
see these people like, oh, where are they at?
And you'll be excited about maybe matching or whatever.
And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they just like,
paid some people to chat and exchange photos just to keep it
going. But yeah, I, I, I, I'm, I'm not
good for their business because I'm literally trying to get
people to not need that, but make sense for me to be there a.
100%. And then there's just like.
Also I don't need y'all, this is so I'm.
Very quickly. Also like it's more that I'm
kind of like I gotta put myself back out there.
I've been so weird about dating ever since like my last
relationship ended And in my head I'm kind of like, OK, it
could be nice to go out with people who share this
experience. So that's like not even on the
table. So it's not something I have to
get in my head of like, Oh no, if this progresses, then this
conversation has to happen. And like in a weird way, I think
my like very short term experience on this app that they
need a UX designer. They like this is the worst app
I've experienced. I.
Feel like have you tried field F, EE, LD?
That is literally one that I've thought about because I also
think like my personality and kind of like the things I'm
into. I also feel like I would just
fit within that world in general.
And I also imagine like there's more openness in that space
where it would be a little less. I can, I can speak to that a
little bit. Like I've had a lot of positive
experiences on field, which has just been like more of a sex
positive sex forward pleasure and safety dynamics being
discussed. You still might catch some of
the people who might use the word clean or who are like these
343. But I think overall, for the
most part, these are people who are much more comfortable with
talking about sex in general. So therefore sexual health being
a part of that, it's a lot easier before we get too far
away from it though, the the self rejection piece, how do
you, how do you manage that? How do you navigate the self
rejection? What do you do, if anything at
all? I think very much like it's a
work in progress, of course, but I think it's something where in
my very recent experience, like putting myself on this app, I
went on my first date from the app last night.
I've like been. Out I just want to tell us about
that tell us about how the day went I'm.
Someone it's hard because I never liked dating apps before
all of this, so it's kind of one of those things where I was
like, he was cute, he was nice. Like I feel like I'm fun, so I
feel like I have fun date. OK, hear me out.
Yeah. I have never heard a woman who
was like, he was cute, he was nice.
Be like, yeah, I want to fuck that dude or yeah, we're gonna.
I don't want to fuck this dude. Like something I don't like.
I'm like, don't like, I don't. And I feel like.
So that's hard. Yeah.
So I feel like it's kind of yeah, I don't know.
It's like my yeah, my friend's like how was the date?
And I was like, it was fine. It was fine.
Like it was fine. So that's.
Hard what? What is it?
Is it is it that he's not hot or is it that he doesn't have much
going on? Talk to me about this because I
think this can be useful information.
Real time. You're coming off this date from
last night. Where did y'all go?
What did y'all do? So, and, and here's what I will
say to you. So I work in the hospitality
industry, so I have very good taste in food and beverage and
I. And you have a very specific
kind of personality, so I think that this says a lot too.
Yes, yes, so I I feel like while I'm again, very much also myself
trying to be open, I feel like I'm quick to judge.
If someone's like like if someone asks me out and they
want to take me to this lame spot, then I'm like, well, I
don't want to do that right. And so I was excited because
this person was like, Hey, let me take you out and named off
like a really great cocktail bar that also happened to be in the
neighborhood I live in when she didn't even know like where I
lived. So I was like, conveniently this
works out. I can walk over to this cocktail
spot. I know it's solid.
I've been there before. I like it good vibes, like live
music, like it's just a good spot.
And I was like, OK, it's good taste.
Like I respect that. And I think just like, and I
don't know, I like, it's not that I'm someone I think things
can build in terms of like attraction or chemistry or vibes
or whatever. Is it relatively short?
Like I was like, let's keep it to a drink.
Let's just meet each other. But I just, I don't know.
I, I don't know if I was super attracted to him.
He's not an unattractive person. I just didn't immediately feel
that. And then I think it also felt
like, I don't know, I I like nerdy, I like people that are
into their own things, but I feel like he gave me a little
like maybe too lame, like, I don't know, like.
All right, the point that I wanted to draw out of that
experience, like you sharing, is that none of that had anything
to do with herpes. You didn't reject yourself and
prevent yourself from getting into that experience.
Oh my God, did you meet him off of that dating app for people
with herpes? Yeah.
Oh shit, Well, that just negated the point.
But I guess like I can still maybe pour something out of
that, which is that you were able to be on that date and be
present and be yourself and be with him.
And I don't know how much of it comes down to the when we date
people with herpes, right? It's like no one has it on one
hand, right. And then on the other hand of it
too, I think that we have an idea of the kind of person who
has herpes between who's avoiding it and then someone who
is dealing, you know, actively working through it or has worked
through it. And even me, like I'm somebody
who's working through it like I always have.
Like my stigma is just different than what most people have in
mind is like, I have to tell people very quickly because they
ask what do you do or me, right? And so there's a little bit of
stigma that I deal with around that, but I don't have a
problem. I'm telling somebody before we
have sex or somebody that I'm interested in hooking up with.
But yeah, I think there's a certain thing that maybe you've
picked up on that because that person is on the dating app for
people wear herpes, and that maybe there's not that same
consistent authenticity, so to speak.
I think that's. Yeah, because if you're around
people, and I use the example of like a friend of mine, after I
got diagnosed, I was hanging out at his house with his family and
I was in my phone. Ha ha.
He he in the chat of that particular app that we were
talking about. I don't even.
Have it on my phone, mine's on. My desktop, no, don't, don't let
it be, don't let it be on your phone.
And I remember he looked at me and he goes like, you all right,
man, you don't seem like yourself.
And that's when I realized like the inconsistency of I'm more
myself with these people than I am with the people that know me,
who are around me. And that.
And I, I had a decision to make of not letting myself just
separate myself in these two personas and stop masking
around, you know, the people around me and keeping them from
knowing what my herpes status is or that I was dealing with that
at all. And it's just been such a
freeing experience because now that same confidence that I have
around people who know that I have herpes is the same kind of
confidence that I have around people who, you know, might find
out whether or not I have. Yeah.
I think that has honestly probably been the most
challenging thing for me because I think as a person, I am
someone who, like, I'm very outspoken about mental health.
I'm very outspoken about other experiences I've been through
that are also stigmatized or also have certain, you know,
degrees of whatnot. And I feel like this I I can't
even I mean, I understand why I feel the way I feel about it,
but I also do think like the isolation around like, I mean,
so many of my like closest people.
I haven't told like the people, the audience, weirdly in my life
that knows is not even the people I'm necessarily like the
closest with in this like given moment.
And I think that can be it's like weird.
Yesterday we were like, Oh, where'd you meet this guy?
And I just like use a plate. I'm like hinge, like, like, and
then it's like, oh, show me a photo.
I'm like, can't, don't have that app like so it's like just, and
I don't, I don't wanna lie like I don't, but then it's like, I
feel like when it's out there, it's out there.
And I, I think sometimes I worry about just like other people.
Again, like other people, like my own stigma was my own stigma.
That's something I'm continuing to work through.
And I think other people, like I still pick up on the comments of
just like the shit people say. And I, I don't know, I, I, I
wonder if that will likely be like a next step of just
continuing. Like I feel like this month I
was like, OK, my goals for the month.
And it's like across the board. It's not just related to like
goals of dating or whatnot, but I'm like, go on a date.
It's like check and like share with like one other person
Because I just feel like I need to keep like not keeping this
like so close and getting more and more comfortable talking
about it because the isolation around that I think is worse
than the experience I've had dealing with it so.
Yeah, tell me about the support that you've received and sharing
with your friends. Like what does that look like to
have talking to a friend about it go well?
I think it's been because again, it's kind of funny.
It's like my younger sister and my mom are two people that know
and like they're wonderful, but I also think they just like, I
think I just get the sense that they cuz they know it's been
hard for me. So I think like they seem to be
like sad for me almost, which like isn't helpful and it's not
them like acting a specific way. But I think they're just like
they don't totally understand it.
They like have a lot of questions.
They're like, oh, I'm so sorry this happened.
And then I feel like my first friends that I shared, it was
also a little bit like they were pissed at this guy.
They're like, fuck this guy. Do we do we need to go find him?
And I'm just like, it's not like I'm like this.
It's like I'm like, no, so there's that.
But I think even that like one of them, I'm grateful.
I mean majority, but I feel like I one of my friends that I
shared with is someone who's just like such a sex positive
person. She's done the sex parties,
she's done that. Like she is someone who
immediately was like, I know people like she's like, I know
people. I know people who have been
diagnosed and then they're still, you know, like it's fine.
So she was just like in that space where I think it was like
a nice person to share with and talk to about it.
And then I feel like another one of my close friends.
It very clearly was like her first time like hearing this
experience from someone. So I think like obviously not
I'll intended or unintentionally, I think
definitely said some things that like rubbed me the wrong way,
but it was also me so freshly dealing with this news and this
new thing. So I think like it's been a
mixed bag. And that's what I think I worry
about more of like everyone that I've told to date, I trust has
like not shared with other people.
They've had, you know, fine reactions and I think I'm like,
OK, safe, like that's a good whatever.
And so I think when I start to open that up, I worry about that
piece of it. But it's also, again, it's like
the balance of it might feel nice to just be like this.
Why is this such a big deal? Why is this this big secret that
I've been holding on to that's been weighing on me when it
could just be like, my friends are good people, Like they're,
that's why they're my friends. Like it's, it is what it is
like. So anyway.
Yeah, thank you. Because I think what like how
earlier I mentioned a lot of people don't tell their
therapist, a lot of people don't tell their friends.
And a lot of times what we miss out on is being reminded who we
are outside of our diagnosis. When we hit the diagnosis, we
immediately absorb and and we start to take in and project how
we think people think of us rather than how people actually
do see or think of us 'cause we just, we, we lose it.
Like we really just get lost in it.
And so to be able to share with friends, to be able to share
with people close to us, I know how resistant, I know how much
resistance there can be to such a thing.
But it doesn't have to be that resistance.
We don't have to have that resistance at all.
And I think that it's so important that we do share with
people who can remind us who we were prior to our diagnosis
because that's who moves forward in the dating and the that's
who. If we're rejected, we're
rejected for being incompatible with who we're trying to assess
for compatibility. But if herpes is at the
forefront, we're looking exclusively based on that.
And it's just a matter of does this person is there?
Are they OK with me having herpes?
Yes or no? Great.
We can be in a relationship. We're going to get married, have
kids. And then it's like, well, wait a
minute and I'll have completely different values, political
views, views on how to raise kids, if you even want kids.
And we bypass all that shit. And by the time we finally look
up after having gotten into the relationship with someone just
who accepts us for having herpes, it's too late.
And now we're trying to figure out how we can make it work.
And then damn, all this time passes of just trying to situate
and organize what life can look like, or changing things about
yourself and what you do and what they do, trying to make a
puzzle piece fit together. That just might not be the case.
And I think that that's really what can help with that.
Self rejection is the reality of touching base with people around
you in order to be reminded who you are outside of your herpes
status. Mic drop.
No, like that. That's been a recurring exercise
in therapy of just like, Rachel, let's like, sit down and write
about yourself and all the things that make you you.
And she's like, oh, how interesting.
Like this is a full page of all these different things.
And it's like, oh, yeah. Like deep down I know this, but
I do I, I think it's something where like my very, very brief
experience, it will likely not last very long on this app is
like, this can't be my dating pool.
I was like, I have so much to give and I am like, and I am if
if anything, honestly the best version of myself that I have
been looking back at relationships, like worked on
myself, my relationship with alcohol, how I take care of
myself, how I show up for myself and other people.
Like it's the best it's ever been.
And so it's like, OK, great. Like that means the person I
date, maybe they share this diagnosis with me.
Maybe they don't like, and I think that's the piece that I
like. And it, I think it weirdly took
me downloading the app and getting matched with like all
these like, you know, 6 year old men in Maryland, like, hey,
like, let me fly out. And I was like, this can't be my
soul mate. Like what's happening here?
And I just said like. What?
That's your soul mate? That's your sugar daddy.
Like and and sure, like I'm open to I, I own my own business.
I work hard with love but like you know so.
Yeah, that that's not the pool. And I, I think that being able
to hear, you know, about the experience that you're having,
it doesn't sound like you're having a negative experience.
It doesn't sound like you're having a positive experience.
It sounds like you're having experiences and then you're
making the most of them. Is that the case?
I think that's, I kind of laugh because I feel like this and
these types of things always seem to be this way.
But I'm like, this was very well timed because if you caught me
on Tuesday, I was having like a very low day that I think I was
mostly blaming on this diagnosis.
I don't know how I'm gonna feel like feel better da, da, da.
And like, you know, three days later, whatever it is, I'm like,
and I do think like it, it was nice to go on a date and show up
and feel confident and get ready and like meet someone new and
have them be interested in me. And I think there's also this
like, I think in those like periods, I do feel like there's
kind of times where it almost feels like this like animal
magnetism. And I feel like I've been
feeling that of like, I feel like people are kind of coming
back from like past parts of my life and like reaching out.
And I'm like, OK, I think I'm like exuding this energy that I
maybe haven't like really felt in a while.
And it's nice to start to feel like confident and excited and
open to these things that I have been like pretty openly closed
off to for a while. I was like, I'm just not dating
right now. And it's like, like, and it's
like for the, you know, for shit reasons.
Like it's fine to take a beat and figure it out, but.
I want to, I want to expand on that, that I'm just not dating
right now because it's been heavy on my heart lately of
people because we can't do a thing or it's not going well.
The outcome that we get of it not going well, it's kind of
like what we begin to accept and then form an identity to of
like, oh, well, I'm just not going to date.
And I'm now a kind of person who's not dating.
I'm not dating, I'm not dating, but you want to be dating,
right? And I'm trying to figure out
wording for that because the whole thing about something
positive for positive people. I hope that it's clear that my
intention is to empower people with choice.
A lot of us who got hurt is we weren't given a choice in
whether or not we were put at risk for getting this or close
to it, and so choice was taken away from us.
So now we are empowered with the ability to give others that
choice for themselves. And there's power in that.
The power of choice is being exercised every time we put
ourselves out there, every time we initiate this conversation,
every time we disclose or discuss our status with someone,
every time we unlock that vulnerability and are willing to
share with someone else. We are reclaiming our power by
giving power to other people of choice.
And then we also get to make the decision and choose whether or
not we move forward with them. But I think that a lot of people
get beat down to the point where it's like, oh, you know, I'm
never dating again. I'm just going to be single.
I'm going to be celibate. I'm not going to put myself out
there. I'm done with dating apps.
And we do that. And it creates this negative,
perpetual, internalized stigma where that to me is probably the
ultimate rejection. Accepting that you're just going
to get this outcome that you don't want and then make
yourself want it is a form of self rejection.
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I, it wasn't out of nowhere.
Not that like it ever is, right? But I think it was like, I also
had like, like I laugh because it's so ridiculous.
So to quickly go back to the first technically person I
shared the diagnosis with in like a romantic setting that I
like on a whim, met on a literal island off the coast of
Portugal. Like whatever, totally hit it
off, spent a week together, we were vibing, I shared it.
He like literally recoiled, like bad vibes, right?
Randomly run into this person again last year in Mexico.
Like totally random. I'm like, OK, something is
pulling us together, whatever. At that point, he's kind of
like, I can't stop thinking about you.
All these things, like whatever tries to hook up, I turn it
down. I was like, you know, I'm not
really feeling it. Then I set up a trip to Portugal
again, it's my favorite place on planet and I go for like a post
birthday trip and I'm just like, go in there, it's happening.
And he reaches out and he's like, oh, like tell me about
your trip. Like my you know, what can I can
I join? I was like, this is my trip.
It's already set. Whatever.
If you want to join, you can join.
So I'm thinking there's all this build like obviously at least
I'm like, we're going to have sex.
Like I'm like, that's for sure happening.
This man meets me in a different country, changes his travel
plans to Take Me Out to a nice dinner, and that night tell me
he's not comfortable with it. And I'm like then why like?
I think that speaks to the caliber of men you're attracting
though, because it's it's motherfuckers that you know,
people are begging for attention from their boyfriend, their
partner. And you got this man who just
wants to take you out, gets to meet you out of the country,
goes to dinner. Like the amount of time, energy,
money, effort goes into that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
But then it was this weird emotion of like that all
happened, so I'm imagining one thing.
And then it was like this weird kind of switch of like not
comfortable with it, can't pulls away, acts weird, haven't spoken
since the trip, like just weird, like.
Yeah, but shout out to you. Shout out to you for getting
that kind of effort. Like now you know that you are
capable of receiving that level of of effort from somebody.
And a lot of people don't let themselves receive that despite
having herpes. Like that's what I want to
highlight here. That is fucking incredible, you
know? I I like that.
I like that take. And, and he's someone who had to
meet you where you are. You were like, hey, I'm doing
this, I'm going to Portugal and sex wasn't even on the mind.
Or I mean, I guess sex wasn't happening for him.
I know I'm like, OK, like that's if that's your choice, like.
And while you wanted the outcome of sex, right, like you were
still there for the journey, you still took your trip, you still
went he you gave him the invite. And that's one of the things
that's a perfect example of choice, right?
You make the recommendation, you give him the choice and you
that's it. Like you gave him power in that
situation. And that therefore is empowering
for you. Yeah, yeah, no.
And that's, it's interesting, I think I, I don't know, I think I
was really frustrated by the outcome.
And I think it was less about the person.
I think it was so much weighing on.
I was like, oh, I can, I can still have this diagnosis and
fly to a different country and meet a man and we can have like
a little cross, you know, whatever.
And then it just felt like, Oh no, I can't do that because of
this, which again is also not true like.
What you told yourself. I know, yeah.
Yeah, but I guess this is this is a great time to speak to the
importance of community because like we talked about this in the
woman's group this past Monday. When I say the word community, I
see 2 words. I see common unity.
And the common unity here obviously is herpes.
But then there's also the common unity of being willing to
examine this and take the wisdom from it.
What is there to learn from living with herpes and going
through the process of having stigma affect us, our behavior
socially and all of that stuff? So that was like being able to
share that in a room full of people.
How many people would have had like different narratives
attached to that? Like you're like, oh man, I
can't even date and have and. It's like when you did all that
like. You know what I mean?
Like I just want somebody to say hi to me.
I just want and hold my hand. I just want somebody to I want
somebody to do what they say they're going to do.
You got all of that, so now you know that you're capable of it.
Again, the more we practice doing the thing, the better we
get at it. So if you're practicing setting
the expectations of this is where I'm at, you can meet me
here, and then you find that there are men willing to meet
you there, The next thing is just going to be about
identifying consistency. Yeah, yeah.
No, that's real. That's yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Speaking of support groups, meet Mondays, 7:30 PM
Eastern Time. And yeah, there's a process to
get into that thing, so just hit me up if you're interested.
We are close ish to time. I like to ask if there's
anything that you want to share or if there's anything you want
to leave listeners with before I let you go.
I think, yeah, no, I, I think kind of just reiterating the,
the piece for me that I think pulled me to this space.
And I think just really seeking out like, I think across the
board, the community side of it is so important.
And I think there is something so valuable whether and it's
it's finding the spaces where they exist.
But I, I do think just being able because it was until this
that I had spoken with anyone who shared the experience.
And I think it feels different to talk to a therapist or talk
to a family member or friend who, you know, best case are
supportive and wonderful and helpful, but like not having
gone through it themselves. I think there is something so
different to be able to talk to people in that space.
And I think in a weird way, not just the community of it, but I
think I even, I think at times it kind of helped to remind me
that I may be further along than I give myself credit for.
Like I think, which is like, cuz there I have some bad days,
right? And like, we all do get it.
But like there was, I think there's just so much negativity
and there's yeah, there's just very clearly people that I've,
you know, briefly spoken with that are not where I'm at.
And I'm kind of like, well, I'm here so I don't have any
interest in playing like therapist or, you know, XYZ for
you to get to where you need to be.
But that's a nice realization because I don't think I felt
that way until more recently, which is progress and exciting
and makes me feel hopeful about about just even the confidence
to say like, yeah, that's not my dating pool.
Like my dating pool is much more massed and that's exciting.
And having that mindset versus like the limiting beliefs that I
think I maybe started with. Yep.
And you've had this for two years?
It's been 2 years and you've already had so much growth, so
many experiences, and you've only just recently found
something positive for positive people, which I think speaks
volumes to the caliber of the, the different directions that we
can go into for our healing process.
Right. So your Ave. was OK, You
connected with your therapist, your therapist told me, told you
about me. And you know, here we are now
like doing a fucking podcast episode.
That's incredible to me. Like this is, this is awesome.
Like I love that you're all of the stories that we share,
they're unique because of where I am in time, where you are in
time, because I've done interviews when I was not in a
good place and I've done interviews when I was overly
enthusiastic and happy. And right now I can say that I'm
at a baseline. And I also want to just thank
you for get for being here now and giving me the space too, to
like kind of be a little brave and just share some of my
personal experience. Like there isn't much that I've
shared, but to be able to like get back into the rhythm of
talking openly about my dating life despite and with herpes.
Like I, I, I think it's coming. I'm still not fully ready to
just be like, here's what I'm doing.
It got going on, but it, it feels, it feels good to have
been able to step into that. So thank you.
I very much appreciate you, the timing for you coming on here
and being able to share your experience.
And then we already talked about anonymity.
So that's it. I don't think I had to say your
name at all. No, I don't think so.
I probably said it so like and that's why I'm not concerned
about that, but. Yeah, OK.
I'll be telling people like I have no reason to say your name.
So like, yeah, we're on video. Yes, but like, I'm only going to
use audio. Are you willing to share just
like what this experience is for you while we got a couple
minutes Like how? How was the interview for you?
Good. I, I think it's something where
I think twofold, I think, you know, slightly selfishly, I'm
like, I think this will be a good experience for me to be
able to kind of like talk freely about this, like talk about it
in a way. I think it's even like progress
to like not get emotional talking about it.
I think early on it's very just like heavy and, and tied in with
other things. And I think, yeah, I don't know,
I, I, I just again, thank the organization, the podcast and
everything. Just like immediately spoke to
me in a way of like, this is what like this needed to exist.
Like, and I, I think it's not the lack of resources that like
some of us are probably led to believe is, is the reality.
And I think just like, yeah, I saw that like herpes awareness
day is like coming up on Monday and like I, which I was just
like, I'm very aware, but like, what does this mean?
And like, what can I like, you know, I don't know, I think
there's a, there's a future potentially where I'm a bit
louder about it. And I don't know what that looks
like because I think current state for me is like, I own my
own company. A lot of that is very tied into
something where I think there's a fear of like putting it all
out there and then like so many people know.
But I think there's also a reality where I'm kind of like,
you know, this has been something I've been dealing
with. It hasn't been easy.
And I would love to also be someone who can help other
people who are experiencing it. And, and that I think goes so
far for me to be able to say like, Oh my gosh, like it's, you
know, and then it's kind of like a reminder to yourself of like,
it's really not that big. Like I'm just like physically,
not a big deal in the slightest. Emotionally that has been the
challenging part. But even that like progress has
been made. So no.
And I, and again, I love hopping on a podcast.
I could like talk all day. So that experience is always fun
for me, but. I was on mute.
All right, good. Well, thank you.
I appreciate you being on here and sharing your experience.
And I mean, that's really what the process is.
If anybody's curious about being a podcast guest, just go to
spfpp.org/podcast, Scroll down a little bit, fill out the intake
form, and I will reach out to you.
And it's as simple as that. As I mentioned, we've got the
Monday support groups virtually 7:30 PM Eastern Time.
And this is every Monday, they alternate 1st and 3rd Monday are
the women's groups, the 2nd and 4th are the men's groups.
And to to December 12th event in New York City.
It'll be in Brooklyn, I'm sorry, Brooklyn, NY.
So if you're in the one of the surrounding areas, if you're in
town for the weekend, come through 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM.
And then we'll probably just migrate to somewhere else.
But yeah, I'm looking forward to being able to facilitate the
space and keep it going. That's it.
If that concludes this episode of something positive for
positive people, please like rate, review, share, subscribe
to this podcast, the organization, and get involved
however you see fit to do so. Till next time, stay present.
And now here's that long pause between me scrolling to the part
where it says what? I'd have been pissed if I wasn't
recording. All right, here we go.
Stop recording. And now you got to hit the stop.