Hello, folks, this is Princess, you are listening to the
millennial Mustard Seed, pod casts.
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to share with your
friends. I stopped wearing a very tough
spot. I think that what we're doing
right now is a great benefit and virtue because it's an
end-around between this whole corrupt informational system
media system. We claim to believe in a God who
spoke the universe into existence and literally raised
himself from the dead. And yet, we're not going to
believe that anything else exists in the spirit realm, even
though his word tells us that they do, Their bodies weren't
permitted to go to sleep, like, humans do, and they weren't
permitted to go to heaven. So they wander the Earth, you
know, I've seen the eyes turned black to unknown tongues being
spoken. These Giants were love way up
with all the upgrades, the young man behind have been the trees.
The way for one of these 12 quarters to come walking down
the back and he would jump on Dragon back.
Then people start to get weapons, they start to get
armor, they start to build cities they still supported by
their cities. Now God looks down and there's
violence everywhere. The battle this war that we are
at is not against each other. It's against these
principalities in these rulers in, these are cons in high
places. It's really worthwhile to read
the Bible. A beer is one of the primary
drivers of mind control because we have to take every thought
captive and resist. You're going to have a testimony
that is a Justice case against the kingdom of darkness.
Welcome back to the millennial Mustard Seed pod cast, I have an
excellent Episode in store for you guys, I have dr.
Mike Davis here with me and this is a crazy.
Cool conversation. He's the president lead trainer
of the Optimal Performance. Mike is a Christian and he has
done some extensive research over the last 20 years and we
dive into a sound mind. Renewing the mind how the whole
entire breakdown of how much that actually changes.
Has our bodies Our Lives, the way that we view the world.
This is an important one because I know a lot of the times people
are dealing with fear doubt. And let's just be honest you
guys we haven't always had the best role models in life.
To teach us how to think or how to deal with any of the things
that we go through. And in today's day and age, it's
imperative that we slow down and we hear a message like what Mike
is going to be bringing to the table.
And I want to say real quick, leave me that five star rating
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I wanted to give a real quick. Shout out to Chuck over a fire
theft radio for getting me in contact with Mike Davis.
You guys will love his show, hopefully he'll be on here in
the future. I'm really excited for this
episode. It's two hours long Mike
literally just does his thing I jump in and ask questions and
he's just a teacher at heart. And information just flows out
of him in this episode but I'm not going to waste any more
time. I am ready for this episode.
Are you guys ready? Let's go.
Welcome back to the show everybody.
I have an excellent guest here. Mike, welcome to the show and
thank you so much for being here.
Happy to be here. Why don't you just let me in the
audience? Know a little bit of your
testimony, your background kind of how you found your calling
and what you're doing, okay? How you became a Christian.
I'm 57 now became a Christian was 14, my reading the book of
Revelation of all things. It's a long story that I won't
get into everything, but my mother had sent me a Bible for
my 14th birthday. I was living with my grandmother
at the time in Illinois. My mother was here in
California. Well, my brother's house going
to Joint, my mother had moved out here.
And I was going to join them the following year and I ended up
reading the Bible, one night just house board.
Actually, and I was reading through the Book of Revelation
and God just used it to imprint upon my heart that these things
are real and I end up accepting him into my life that night
about 2:00. O'clock in the morning, all by
myself. So I became a Christian and did
just had an insatiable desire to start reading the Bible.
Nobody told me to do that. It was just the which kind of
shows me the work of the holy spirit that I just had this
desire to read the Bible. So I began reading primarily at
that time. The Book of Matthew and I just
started reading through the back with a book of Matthew became my
favorites me over and over and then right after that, I had
some dreams. I read the story of Joseph, and
I kind of knew that there were some things going on that God
can speak to you through dreams, but I really wasn't used to any
of that. So, I had this dream and make a,
long story short, the dream I knew was calling me to
leadership. I didn't know what type of
leadership at the time I had this dream where I was in the
dream, I was in this Cavern, which to me, I took to be like
hell, And on the other side and I, when I look down to this,
this crevice this, this we're just, it was like a crevasse
separating one side from the over the other and I saw my
friends and teachers and it was like they were in this fire,
this molten lava and so I we were doubting me and some other
people were battling these demons.
And I just remember in the dream, I said something like for
the, for the glory of the Lord, for the sake of the Lord, and I
leaped across this cabin and there was a sword.
In my hand. And so I started you know in the
enemy was on the other side and in the dream he was like don't
let him get to me. Don't let him get to me.
And I woke up and I was like, what the heck was that?
I wouldn't told my teacher, the next day about this dream and my
teacher said well, I don't know if my teacher at the time was a
Christian or not. But he said your I think this
means you're called the leadership and I was like, yeah,
I thought I was like, whoa, so I end up moving to California when
I was 15. I was going in. 15 years old, I
was pronounced breed praying and reading my Bible every day and I
just knew that I was called into Ministry.
I didn't know what type of first and so I just kind of thought
I'll just going to be a Bible teacher.
Like I'd saw a television, I travel around and just teach the
Bible. So I start studying the Bible as
much as I could trying to learn as much as I could.
And, you know, knew I was called into Ministry.
I would teach Bible studies. I remember, we would have, we
lived in these apartments in Upland.
California, I'm in Southern California and And I we were,
you know, we're in these apartments and we would I would
pass out tracts to the kids and the apartments.
We would bring them over to our home.
We would have Bible studies and we witness to and led to the
Lord. Every kid in that apartment
complex, you know. I don't know how much of that
would stay, but, you know, but we they would come and he would
stay. And I would not, I knew very
little about the Bible. I was watching people on TV and
then repeating what? I heard them say, and that's how
I started. Had become plagiarism but I
didn't, but I don't like it. I'm just teaching a Bible, but I
was doing that and I knew it was called in a friend of mine.
She said you're called the pass. I would oh no, I don't ever want
to be a pastor new. No, no, no, that's one thing I
didn't want to be at the no, no, I just want to travel around and
teach the Bible but years, later idea could call into the
pastorate. And I in doing all of that, you
know, in a course of time, when I knew I was called at 15.
I said I'm going to seek God. I'm going to prepare for
Ministry so I decided this was just my decision but I believe
it was. It was the Lord's leading.
I decided not to date. I thought I'm not going to day.
I was 15. I thought board at, for some
something said, you need to get prepared, which, I believe is.
Holy Spirit, you need to prepare for Ministry.
So I thought I'm going to spend my time getting focused on
preparing to do to fulfill my call.
So I just, I didn't date. I prayed, I studied, that's my
life, was that praying and studying?
So I didn't do anything. 18. At the time, I have to say
Frank, praying studying the comic books.
I was looking for my three cats don't like table books to this
day, but I didn't date. And I just, I guess I left it in
the hands of Lord. I said, you know, Laura what I
like, you know what? I don't like.
I'll trust you and I believe he spoke to me and said, if you let
me pick for you, I'll pick for you.
Someone better than you could ever pick for yourself.
So this is 15 fast forward. I'm about getting ready to turn
21 and I meet Eat, who was the the lady who was going to be my
wife, Karen, she we met and we both hit it off.
We were friends for about a year.
There's a whole story to that, which I won't get into, but we
got, we end up getting married, three years later and so, I've
been married. We've been, we've been together
thirty-seven years. We've been married. 34 would be
35 this year. So yeah, we've been very for a
while. But in the midst of that, you
know, we did we started a church and I was, you know, Pastor and
we were pastoring in leading people.
And there are always small fellowships.
And I have been in Ministry because I used to travel like,
to go to New York and Minister, and it was kind of fulfilling
that dream. I never wanted to be a pastor, I
remember the one when they walk into my bedroom, this is before
I got married and God just dropped in my heart to Shepherd
his sheep. I never had a desire for that
and I just II distinctively. Remember, walking into the
bedroom walking across the room, all sounded just like link clue
and I went yeah II just had this love and concern and care for
God's people into want to Shepherd them.
Not just going in deliver a message and leave you know.
And so I knew that's what the Lord had called me to do and and
so we did that for a while we actually should Pastor the
church. Called our first church was
burying Christian Fellowship because in the midst of that,
what happened was two things. That was significant that I was
involved in a particular week. I had a charismatic background
noise belong to a particular group And I began to see the
some of the things we were teaching.
We're not right. Mmm.
And so I started doing research, you know, and I had heard a
minister on television scholar would said, if you're going to
study the Bible, especially if your city, the New Testament,
you need to understand it in its original cultural historical
context, and he said, for the Bible That's first century
Judaism. So I thought.
Okay, so I need to understand something about first century
Judaism and so that's what I did to do.
Someone just brought me water so I began I start I realized that.
Okay if I need to own understand the Bible because I saw that
some of the Theology of what I have been taught.
I said this is not solid theology.
You know we need to bet when that my thinking was we need to
be better in our theology. We need to have a better
theological foundation so I started to study something out
for the most part it was trying to prove that what I had been
taught was right and You're correct.
Some things. The more I studied the more I
saw old man. What what I've been taught was
wrong. This is not right.
But we made it, you know, my wife and I we slowly came out of
that and I found a mentor who began teaching me the name of a
doctor, William being, and he became my mentor for the next 25
years in biblical studies. Well, and he had started a
school for pastors who wanted to go back to school and get their
degree. So I end up studying her knee
him for a few years, then I end up going and end up getting a th
D from his school. Cool.
A doctor of Theology and my focus was on understanding the
Bible and its cultural context of the degree was a degree in
first century Christianity in his Jewish context.
I got my masters and doctorate through him.
And my focus also was on Paul. I was trying to understand Paul
in the, in his Jewish context because everybody else was
studying Jesus, and his context and understanding that the
jurors the gospels like, what about Paul?
So, I became the Paul guy in our group.
Oof and as long as it's not, my passion was for Paul and it
still is. I love the Apostle Paul, if he's
just phenomenal, the way he was used of God but in the midst of
that at one point and I need a back up just a little bit.
So my wife and I got married. I was 23.
She was 22. We were 12 weeks into our
marriage. My wife comes to me and says, I
hate being married. I don't want to be married
anymore and I don't want to have physical intimacy sex with you
anymore. The reason why is because my
wife had been severely abused as a child.
She had been sexually abused. You've been emotionally abused,
physically abused. And so what, we didn't know, at
the time, I'm 23, she's 22. We had no knowledge to the
shoes, experiencing PTSD. So I showed what she said to me
later. What she says, when you reach
for me, I didn't see your hand. I saw the hand of all the People
who abuse me. So we had that in our marriages.
Our first year of marriage, there is 12 weeks after we have
been married. Then I had a fear that I had
since I was 16 years old and it was growing, it was and it was a
tormenting fear in my mind, it had kind of kind of kind of
gotten installed because of something that I was told at a
church meeting and a prayer meeting, and it opened up the
door for the devil to plant this thought in my mind that created
fear and I would have been struggling with this is I was
16. I was Now 23 going on 24 and it
was growing and I did everything rather than you to do.
I prayed I faster. Over evil, I rebuke the devil.
He wouldn't buek, I bind the devil, I lose the devil.
I did everything that I could do to do and I couldn't get any
relief from the fear. So one day, I'm 24 years old is
about a year into our marriage. We're dealing with this with my
wife, she doesn't want to be touched.
I would reach for my wife to be intimate.
She would just clench up, and just draw her hands to herself
and just clench up really tight like, in a ball.
And she because she didn't want to be touched.
She was having PTSD flashbacks, which again, I did know.
And she didn't know what it was. So this is all going on.
I went to God. I said, God, we know number one.
I don't I want to be married to her.
I don't know what to do. And I got this fear that I'm
struggling with and the first thing we saw I'm sitting down
reading my Bible and a nephew is growing.
I said Lord what do I do? I've done everything I know to
do it and that day, I happened to be in Reading in Romans
chapter 12 where it says be transformed by the renewing of
your mind. I'm reading that verse and the
Lord speaks to me through that verse and I hear you need to
renew your mind and I said to God, I thought I haven't My
mind. I've been a Christian for 10
years. I pray every day.
I read my Bible every day. If I have been renewing my
that's all I heard was you need to renew your mind, nothing else
will say. So I said, okay, God, if you're
saying I need to renew my mind I thought I was evidently I
haven't teach me how to renew my mind.
And that began a journey of trying to understand about my
mind about emotions. And that's really how it started
because of what I was struggling with and also with what my wife
is struggling with because you know, we have that going on with
the abuse that she was, you know, still dealing with.
And she would pry, it should go. It's not you it's not you and I
would think to myself it has to be me.
I'm the only one here, you know, you know, but it wasn't me.
It was he was what she was struggling with.
So I was asking God for Answers people have often often say,
well, why didn't you guys go to counseling?
And I jokingly, but seriously say I do black people don't go
to counseling. It's that's on why people do.
But people think coming down slowly, but it's also true in
the black community. There was a stigma for going to
counseling. However, that's not why I didn't
go. It was, it never occurred to me
to go to counseling. It just, it wasn't on my radar.
That's not what we did in our community.
So I didn't. I was so we, I Only thing I knew
to do, I prayed, I said God, what do I do?
So little by little and I'm going to share the story.
I began learning about the mind, I began learning about emotions.
At first, I was reading all the Christian books, I could read
and I hate to say, they weren't much help because I was asking,
God questions about emotions. And most of the Christian
literature, I was reading at that time because this is an we
were married in 88. So this is like 89 90.
Most of the Christian literature at that time was like, well
there's not much you can do about your emotions, you just,
you got to make the right decisions.
Seek to think the right thoughts, do the right behaviors
and eventually your emotions will catch up.
So the response towards emotions was one of passivity in terms of
the what I was reading the Christian literature.
I even have a book today in my library, where the guy basically
says, there's not much you can do about him and this is a
famous Christian. What we do in the mind and he
basically says, I think, what I mean fan is, it was well-known.
And the guy said, and by the way, I do, when I say this, I'm
not trying to put him down everybody, I believe.
Now everybody's doing their best to help people.
So his view was, there's not much you can do about your
emotion, you provide the Forum in God will fill it and by that
he means, amen, let's say you have a trouble loving.
Well, you just act lovey. Make the decision to act, loving
and God will fill your heart with love.
Eventually, and I always like to say the teaching was God.
God will somewhere down the line.
Your emotions will catch up. We don't know when we don't know
how but eventually they will catch up that wasn't helping me.
I was tormented by this fear, I would try to do that and the
fear would take over people with it.
Well, you got to trust God. You got to do it by faith.
I try that. And that fear just would be so
powerful. And so, the more I start
learning. Wow, I started to recognize that
we We lack wisdom when it came to deal with our emotions are
starting to study about the my now starting to see things that
and at the same time I was starting to study the Bible.
And I believe this was the plan of God.
So while I'm starting to study about the mind and emotions, I'm
also studying the Bible in his historical and cultural and
linguistic context. So I'm going deeper into the
scriptures, looking at things in Greek, and Hebrew and the
culture of the day, what I'm learning because I had to go, I
had to step outside my Christian books and I start reading books
on psychology. Elegy.
I start reading books on Neuroscience which were I came
from. That was kind of a taboo at the
time. It's like, no, no, no.
You just stick with the Bible. You stick with Christian books
and if you outside of that was, it was, it was considered taboo.
So I was reading these things, but I was seeing things and I
would go back. I'm leaving.
This is what I just learned over here about what this word heart
actually means in Hebrew, and this word has to do with the
emotions. So it was parallel paralleling
each other and I was Days. And it will, I think it's the
grace of God that I was learning these things in parallel because
I have to say, I was scared. I was like, I don't know if this
is right or not what I'm starting over here in psychology
stuff, but then I'm reading stuff in my biblical studies,
you know, doing more advanced studies, more deeper studies and
their parallel in each other and I believe God used that to bring
me along. So I start applying what I was
learning to myself and I can't tell you when it happened.
One day, I looked up and I realized that Fear was gone.
It was completely gone. I don't even remember when it
left, I just knew I was no longer tormented in my mind that
it was directly cause of what I learned about the emotions of
learning, how to renew my mind. Then what happened is my wife
started because I start teaching these things that are little
Fellowship, you know, and just didn't know as much as I do now.
But I was sharing what I knew, people start applying it or my
wife started applying it and she started to find Freedom And 37
years later. You know what, 34 years later in
terms of marriage, we're still together people.
You know, because I always jokingly said he was a.
Well, did you guys ever overcome that I go?
Well, we got, you know, three daughters.
So yeah, we overcame I said, but it was the grace of God leading
us and guiding us. Step-by-step my why I always
tell people, my wife is my hero because I know what she
overcame. I know that obstacle she's to be
depressed every day. Almost every day, is she would
cry. Because of what she was feeling,
she felt like she was a bad wife.
She felt like she was a bad Keeper of the house and
everything. She just felt horrible but it
was, it was all that stuff. So she started finding Freedom.
Then friends of mine would come over and in these, are people in
the ministry and they would go home.
And I'm just struggling with stuff.
And what I found Rod was a lot of people spend.
Even ministers were secretly struggling with the emotions,
like, I was struggling, but nobody knew it and we were all
kind of keeping a front of Or people faith.
And we believe God and we believe his word, but privately
they're struck, they were struggling.
So I started one of my friends came over one day and I said,
well, and by the way, I was reluctant to share what I knew
because again, I'll still like, I don't know.
This is completely gotten on finding Freedom.
My wife was like, I don't know what you're afraid of.
I'm free. I could care less what other
people say. She's that way to this day?
Well, I gotta make sure that everything is biblical.
So, I'm, you know, I'm doing my research and my one of my
friends came over, he was struggling.
So I shared something with him. I said we'll try this and see if
this works. He comes back about a week, two
weeks later. He goes, oh my, he's a man that
Set Me Free. You got anything else, you know?
And so that little by little, I started sharing with people and
people were telling me, they were finding Freedom, we were
teaching at at our church and I think the real turning point for
me came, when a friend of mine, who's a pastor Pastor, Willie
Estrada, really good friend of mine.
He is pastoring a church at the time called by his Irit
fellowship and Willie. And I would meet, we would meet
on a regular basis for breakfast and we would, you know, keep in
one. Another accountable, we would
share our frustrations and stuff and he goes, what are you
teaching on? I thought I've been doing this
series at our church on. Renewing the mind he goes.
Hey, can you come to my church and teach on that?
I said, sure. So I went to his church after 13
weeks. I taught on renewing the mind
and the very first night I start, and I'm teaching things
that a lot of people had never heard of before, because I'm
talking about the mind, the emotions Neuroscience, you know,
And I say, I when I was teaching someone said to me and my focus
was on how to how to renew the mind.
Not just telling people what to do, but telling them how to do
it. Because I, that's one thing, I
always struggle with our bike, you know, we're always hearing
sermons about what we're supposed to do, but we're not
really told how to do it. Like, you gotta forgive, well,
how do you forgive? You know, you get a little, how
do you love? And usually the answer was, what
you trust God. Okay.
So then I'd ask, well, how do you trust God?
God. So the these things kick, you
know, and no one really gave me when they when I would hear the
answers. It was not a how-to was more of
what to I'm going. That's not a how to answer.
So I started focused on how specific steps.
You could take. That would create a changing
your mind and your emotions. And what ended up happening was,
I was teaching it one night. The first night, I was teaching
at my friends church, one of the guys in the service I'll never
forget him exam discuss, he still a friend of mine today and
he's Says, you know, I asked me if I was asking for feedback but
at this point I was also a professional.
I do corporate training for organizations and so one of the
things we do is ask for feedback and I said saying that have any
questions or anything? And someone said, I just got a
comment and say, yeah, he goes, you know, I have to tell you all
my life. I've been taught to renew my
mind as a Christian I've been told to renew my mind.
This is the first time. Someone has told me how And when
I heard that at that, exact moment, I felt this is what I'm
supposed to do was that moment when he said that I was like, it
was like it was like time kind of froze for just a moment.
It's like this is why you're here.
The corner. This is why you're and I was it
was, it was a transforming moment for me because I went
home that night thinking, I have to teach people how to do this.
I have to teach more people, how to renew their minds.
I've got to teach people how to deal with their emotions, so
that's what my wife, we end up starting an organization called
the center for Christian training and development.
And our goal is to help people to understand the Bible better,
and its historical and cultural context and to teach people how
to renew their minds and manage their emotions.
So that's in a nutshell. I said a lot there, but that's
how we got started. That's powerful.
I'll just take it. A journey with you're saying
stuff. I had to mute the mic.
This is something that I find is not, well, talked about, and
even if they talk about it, that step by step process, you're
referring to, like, how does that actually translate?
Like, when we read scripture, perfect?
Love casts out, fear. God says all these times the Old
Testament do not fear. Do not be afraid but yet we have
Generation of people. Yes.
Riddle didn't fear. Yeah.
And one of the things I have in my notes here just that I wanted
to ask you about because I had dr.
Laura Sanger own, a few different times over the last
like year and a half and I know we did an episode on marriage
and she, I talked about how her husband he was taught by his
parents. Like when you get these little
arguments or, like fights or something like that, that he
would actually like humble himself, he will pray.
And then he would with a soft touch at the same time, just say
like generally I'm sorry. Yeah, and like there was like
this way that he taught her to connect it more than just like,
oh, I'm sorry, roll your eyes and walk away, because the body
language was saying, I'm not really sorry and a lot of the
times we messed up from the world.
What is the step by step process look like to overcome the
plethora of different information that we have to read
from? But how does it translate into
actual process? I heard it said by somebody
else, that if we're in a state of Here, right?
Like I think it's the amygdala or they called the reptilian
portion of the brain is responsible for like the fight
or flight and if we're in. Yeah.
That's that's what's now it's kind of big that's being seen as
kind of the old model of the brain matter of, oh, this book
right here, how cold, how emotions are made its by dr.
Lisa Feldman, Barrett Chief because he says, yeah that old
model doesn't work anymore. Oh wow.
Well whoever yeah we do we construct the emotions.
There's there's a there's a change going on.
How we understand how the brain works.
When. Yeah, there are parts of the
brain where we construct, one of the things she argues that I've
taught for years. She says we construct.
Our emotions is not so much that your emotions.
Get housed in a certain part of your brain is that we construct,
our emotions, and this is actually what I've taught from
more of a, not, a neuroscientific perspective, but
from a more psychological perspective, I would teach
people. I said, well, you construct your
emotions and We talked about how emotions are constructed.
And if you understand the structure of emotions, once you
understand the components that make up your emotional
experience, then you can change the components and change your
emotion experience. That's D does deep.
Let me say that was the question.
You're going to ask me because I interrupt, you know, I'm
learning. This is why I have the podcast.
We're capturing the the experience I had written down
that when we are operating in fear.
Over a long period of time. It can actually lower our immune
system, make us more susceptible, like it can like,
dampen are just natural healthy State.
Yeah. And emotions was that was
interesting. Yeah.
There is a book written two years ago called molecules
molecules of the Mind by dr. Candace, pert, the late dr.
Canus /. She's passed on.
One of the things that she said is that emotions are the Nexus
between Mind and Body. In other words, what connects
mind and body is emotion. And so one of the reasons we
decide well what you think and can impact your body but not
without emotion. And so when you think of certain
way, you're feeling certain emotions, it's going to impact
your body. There is a study done by dr.
Barbara Fredrickson dr. Barbara Frederick.
And she she's a psychologist and she won an award called the
Templeton prize for the her Broad and built theory of
emotion. And you can make this all up.
She was the first one who did research and actually did the
study to show that. When you are in certain
emotional states, it will impact your thinking, it can impact
your body. It can cause you when you're
when you're in, what we call - I don't normally use this term to
when you're in negative emotional states, like fear,
okay? It can cause your your awareness
to constrict you don't have access to all of your resources.
We do know that speak stress, which fear Anger, all those
things can become under stress. It can suppress your immune
system because when you're in those emotional states is
releasing certain neural chemicals into your body.
Like cortisol cortisol, which if you got too much of that
released, it can dampen your immune system.
You see the book behind me? Deep book here called, emotional
success is written by another Doctor, dr.
David this Tonneau he talks about Doing doing things with
wait, what they call grit or pure willpower Marissa's, doing
them with the writing motion. And what he saw that, he cites a
study where and it goes to your point again, or question where
they looked at African-American children in low-income
neighborhoods who are working hard, educational wise.
They were studying, they were pushing themselves.
They did well in school, but it was causing deteriorate distress
was causing deterioration. Of their cells.
So, what you're saying is, right?
It's been shown that. Hey, certain emotional states,
if you stay in the long term, what we call negative emotions
that are that we normally call negative emotions.
There's a reason I referred in the emotions as - we can get
into that. But if you experience them over
time, consistently, it can start to impact your, your DNA, it can
start impacting. What your how, you know, your
immune system you can suppress your immune system.
So Us can make you sick, stress can literally make you sick
anger. It can impact the heart and
everything else. And they're also saying where
the reverse is true, gratitude can strengthen the immune
system, you know? So when we see things you so
gratitude Happiness joy, what we call the positive emotions,
those can have a nurturing effect upon your physical
well-being as well as your mental and will be are.
All right, so my mind is doing a lot of really awesome thing.
Right now listening to you. I like this a lot in Japan to
stop me in any type of, I'll just start rolling.
It's like there's no Clarity of choice when we're operating in
fear, right? If this a fearful mindset,
there's no Clarity of choice. It's it is restricting like it.
Like, even as I was listen to you say that, I'm like, yeah, if
we're fearful, it's very restricting.
We don't see like, well, hold on, let me slow down and think
this through and oh, well this is what's going on here and if
I'm feeling fearful, maybe I need to To re-evaluate and
actually see what level of severity I should move forward,
right? But that takes a sound mind and
I believe that that comes from God.
So it what it takes a sound mind, which I do believe is a
gift of God, and it along with that.
It takes training. There's a verse of scripture in
first Timothy believe. His first, Timothy 4:8, were the
Apostle Paul writes to Timothy. He says, basically, it's like
physical exercise profits for a little while.
Yeah. But godliness, you know, and
what he says is exercise, yourself rather unto godliness,
the word in Greek, for exercise. Gugu nods 0 is literally train
yourself. Repeating Gallery like, yes and
the word for train in Greek, refers to the training, the mind
and body. Wow.
So as Believers, I read a book a long time ago, I believe it was
by John ortberg, I don't remember the name of it but he
said that he said that that as Christians what we need to do.
And I so love this quote, he said so often.
We try so hard to be better Christians.
He says we don't need to try harder.
We need to train better. Wow.
And so, a lot of reasons, one of the reasons that we struggle so
much is that we do not train our mind and emotion.
One of the, when I, when I went, when I was a, my friend that I
told you about dr. Pastor Willie.
Estrada, I end up becoming an assistant pastor at his church
for about. We went there for about seven
years and while I was there, I became an assistant pastor and I
did a message one Sunday called how to train your emotions.
Mmm and and I think it's either I have it right here.
I used to have it sitting on my I don't have it.
It's somewhere on my desk here but I have the original tape
from that it was flying from years ago.
Like my oldest daughter is 29 almost 30.
She was I think she was like 9 when I didn't that message.
So I still have the original Direction.
How long ago it was it's on cassette tape.
Okay but I did that message on how to train and Show them.
I say your emotions can be trained now.
I was saying this at a time when most people didn't think that
way about their emotions and they did believe it.
But I showed from scripture as a you can, we can train our
emotions and I also was quoting the scientific literature.
And I said, listen, we can train our emotions.
So a lot of what we are find difficult is because we are
untrained. You know, it's like going out
there and saying, well like my wife, once did a Marathon, she
went. And she did a 26-mile marathon
and she and the way she did when she ran and walked it ran and
walked it, but she completed it, but she had to train for it.
If she would have went out there the day of the marathon and said
I'm going to do 26 Mile, she wouldn't have made it a mile.
In order to do the marathon, she had to train.
So many of us are, are seeking to live good Christian lives and
we don't train for. Can I give you one more quote?
Yeah. So there's this sport
psychologist. He used to be, he wasn't Olympic
trainer. And psychologists name is Jim
lore, and he had trained Olympic Athlete, he became a coach and
executive coach for business Executives.
Okay? And he wrote something in
Harvard Business Review that I read years ago and he said, I
noticed something he says I'm working with these Executives in
their offices. He's I noticed there's a
difference between the executives and the Olympic
athletes. He said an Olympic Athlete will
spin years in practice and preparation for just a few
moments a performance. Think about, I've had friends
who died, two friends, who were training for the Olympics?
I know. That's true.
They spend years in practice years in preparation for just a
few few moments a few minutes. Wow performance.
He said but I noticed the business Executives spend all
their time in performance and very little to no time in
practice and preparation. And when I heard that, I'm even
thought of members of the body of Christ and I said, we spend
the majority of our time in performance as Believers very
little time in practice and preparation.
Asian. And so this is why I talk about
training, training, your emotions.
I believe that biblical things that we are called to do, like
the meditate upon God's word, that's preparation.
But then it's like, well, how do you meditate upon God's word?
What's involved in meditation? What are the different types of
biblical meditation? I'm talking about biblical
meditation, and these are things, I started studying over
the years. Start, looking at all the
different words that are used words.
Like, huh, God words like Sasha, Belle, Fourche out, all of these
different Edwards to do with the mind and can deal with, they do
with meditation and they have to do with the mind and emotions
and I was never taught these things.
So in our training and our teaching, we talk about these
things a lot in the church I Pastor which is now called The
Oasis. They hear a lot of emotions
because every so often I'll just do a whole series and I'll say
this one other thing and you can ask me any other question when
the pandemic happened, there was a lot of fear.
Yeah, lot of anxieties. I work as a coach, I have
branded myself as an emotional success coach and I got a lot of
calls. When the pandemic hit.
My book was filled, my schedule was feel because people were in
such fear such anxiety. People of our fellowship though.
We couldn't we couldn't meet live.
We'd actually before the pandemic happened, the place
where we were renting, we'd end up not being able to use it
again. So when the pandemic happened,
it's like well, nobody's meeting now.
And so we started meeting online and one of the things that
really bless my heart because we're encouraging everyone don't
be ruled by fear. You know pray seek God.
Talk with your doctors, make wise decisions is what we're
telling everyone. One of the people on our from
our fellowship Who's online. She spoke of she says Pastor
Mike, they call me Pastor Mike. She said I have to tell you
though and everybody starts saying.
Yeah, this is really true. They said all that you've taught
us about dealing with our emotion, has prepared us for
this. So that we're not in fear is
because of what you and Pastor Karen would you guys have taught
us? We are not in fear.
That's so blessed me. I had no idea.
They were going to say that. So they were saying thank you
for all that. You've taught us about dealing
with our emotions. That blessed me tremendously,
all of that training leading up to those moments of making a
choice, right? Exactly.
So as you were talking, one of the things that I was trying to
hold on to Because I'm taking the journey with you,
Battlefield just like, this is so important for me personally,
and I know it's going to affect other people.
There's, there's a scripture where God says, without faith.
We cannot please him and me, we, we think of the word pleasing.
Like like, that's, it's appealing or satisfying.
Maybe you see God's emotion is heart towards us when we're in
faith. So, like, just like how many
people read that verse I do without faith.
Is impossible to please God. But what you're doing and
talking about and God has led you to in your life is helping
to deepen the connection. And if you understanding because
we would I would just read over that in my earlier days.
I'm like, okay. So he's like happy or something.
He's going to smile, but, but it's so much more than that.
And then with the scripture, it's always kind of like that in
the Bible, like you just keep going in.
You like, I could spend the rest of my life doing this and I'm
not going to find an Angela right of working this all
together for four are good for his plans.
It's just It's amazing. You just have so much flowing
out of. You just seeing your face and
hearing you talk of reminds me of like that River of water,
that flows out of us. It's like something's boiling up
in you and you're like, okay, hold this back.
Here is another one is another difference between Talent OR
anointing right? Yeah well that and that's what I
said. If I go to long does interrupt
me and To share their testimony and just share their heart.
And you know we'll have you down in the future and try to narrow
in some some topics that that are relevant to what the body of
Christ and just listeners around the world are dealing with but
yeah be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Yeah let's talk about that a little bit, okay?
Because that is something that I struggle with and that you
coming from very outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Very secular the way, He grew up, I mean I got 15 your were
talking about. Okay, God, I'm gonna not date
and prepare. I got my first tattoo of those
but I'm not happy to say that but it's like, you know, there
was a lot of trauma and there was I went to a big school.
There was a lot of diversity are things to get caught up and
wrapped up in. So I would say to people I'm
just doing what I was taught, right?
And then breaking that, I had a near-death encounter at like 19
years old. I got jumped by a bunch of guys
and how to monitor out of body experience and that launched me
into now questioning everything. Because now I'm around.
Everything's under interrogation because nobody is talking about
what I experience and that was kind of my shock into.
I've got it all wrong, not that I had anything right, but it was
the reality check of their something so much more, and I
don't know anything about that. Well, long story short.
I like 24, I give my heart to Christ and it's been a rocky
ride. So I'm happy that you're here to
help me make sense and to make thick napkin as well as the
listeners get into. Renewing of the Mind share with
us like what some of that process look like for you an
advice of how we make that reality.
How do we give the right training and effort to get the
result of peeling from these traumas?
I mean I still do with PTSD. How do we renew our mind in
these areas that affect us deeply Yeah.
Well, so part of it is, like I said, it's the know how its
noise, what is not only knowing what to do, but how to do it,
which the Biblical term for that is wisdom.
Wisdom is skilled. One of the definitions of wisdom
is skill. It is how to, and what I start
studying all this, the thing that I said, was one of the
things that we have lacked is wisdom.
We've lacked how to do something, we've lacked the
skill, and a lot of it is within the biblical text, and one of
the things that I Variants one year.
And then I tell the surgeon start to show that God was
really involved. So one year, this is, when I'm
early on, in my studies of trying, to figure out how to
renew the mind of stuff, I'm reading this book called
Christian perspectives, on being human, And it's a kind of like
an anthology is not a lot of different Scholars.
And, you know, they had neuroscientists and
psychologists say the Theologian and they're writing about being
human. They're writing about how, how,
and, well, one guy had a chapter on there that it wasn't about,
renewing the mind, but he talked about that extensively in that
chapter, and he talked about how change needs to occur, not just
intellectually, but also emotionally, and we're not just
intellectually not just below. Additionally not just what you
think, not just what you decide but also what you feel and he
says, without all three, there's not a true renewing of the mind
and I had come to that conclusion from what I was 10.
I went no, this is really true because when the Bible says be
transformed by the renewing of the Mind, most people take that
as just intellectually that you think new thoughts.
But if you look up the word mind in Greek, you can use something
as simple as a Strong's Concordance.
It'll say, The mind and intellect will and feeling.
The mine is composed of all three of those, and when I
remember, when I first learned it, our way, now that can't be
right, he calls. I was always told there's not
much you can do about your feelings and emotions and so
your emotions didn't really count.
They weren't part of the process of renewing.
The Mind, here, I'm reading. This is actually what the word
means in Greek. So I struggle with that.
But I kept doing research and my studies in Greek and Hebrew, you
know, learning to look upwards and do and do studies in the
original languages. It began to bear this out and I
went. Whoa.
So I'm reading this guy's book and he says that it takes all
three for their to truly affect a renewing of the mind.
And then, he says, this is why we're told to meditate upon
scripture because it had the idea was because it will affect
all three. And when I read that again I
believe the Lord spoke to my heart and has been borne out.
Now over the years, I heard the Bible is structured in such a
way as to touch and Transform, not only your intellect but also
your emotions. And I heard that and I believe
it was from the Lord and I said and I said to the Lord, what do
you mean? The Bible is structured in such
a way. What does that mean?
But again, it was all I heard that.
I knew that meant I needed to start studying.
So I started studying the structure of scripture.
How are the strip scriptures constructed?
And I began to it took many years, little by little I first
start studying the Psalms which are, which are filled with
emotions and I start studying other things, long story short,
I began to find out, I began to study at one at one point.
What's called the rhetorical The Retreat?
What we could call it, the rhetorical structure of
scripture that scriptures are written in such a way as they
are to, they seek to effect a change, not only in your
thinking that also on how you feel.
That the way the Apostle Paul role the way that the Apostle
Peter wrote they wrote utilizing certain structures and styles
and what's known as devices in order to affect certain
responses from the people. And when I started to realize
this, I was like, oh my gosh, this is what the Lord spoke to
me. And so one of the things I
started looking at was well, how are these things written?
I started to realize the writers of scripture are making use of
emotion to affect change. This is what we're normally not
taught. We are taught that emotions.
We're normally taught emotions are, merely the byproduct of
changing your thinking What I began to see in my research, and
I mean, this has been borne out in.
Also the Sciences Neuroscience, psychological research is not
only can thought changing motion, but emotion, can change
thought. And so what I so what I began to
see what's that were always focusing on just trying to
change it at the cognitive or 20 the at the intellectual level.
I said, what if we started first seeking to create change at the
emotional level, it will automatically create a change at
the intellectual level. So rather than just always
thought needs to change emotion, I start saying emotion can
change thought Now I was saying this and that and and it's not
any worry to me. It was just what my research was
showing. But if people like no, you know,
and sometimes I still get people going.
No, I do know, there's a whole field of therapy called emotion
focused therapy, where they use emotion to change emotion.
And so one of the reasons it is often so difficult and reason
people struggle is because they are trying to deal with
emotional issues, only from a cognitive level.
And I tell people that I said, here's the thing when you're in
when, if there's a battle between your intellect and your
emotions, The majority of the time, your emotions are going to
win. Hmm, they were over power.
Where did this is? Why people struggle with porn
addiction? This is why people struggle with
sometimes, with anger with fear member austrane.
Before I had the fear and I would try to be logical about.
I'm going to apply my faith and I fear will come up and be like,
well, that forget that, but it was learning how to utilize,
emotion to change emotion. It doesn't, it doesn't take away
the intellectual, the cognitive it would stick is still can work
with it. But I've had friends sometimes
who had some psychological training, they'll go.
Well Mike know, you always have to you always have to have
thought to change emotion, I go. No, that's not true.
First of all, you can eat certain foods and it will change
your emotional state. Yeah, independent of thought
certain foods will change your mood.
You too much sugar, it will change your mood.
You can think of GE you can eat too much sugar, you call it.
You have a crash and no matter how positive you may think, you
still go feel horrible. Because of that of the sugar
that you've eaten, you can change your, you can change your
physiology or your posture, you can breathe different and I've
done this hundreds, if not thousands of time.
Now where I've like I did a training at a major car
manufacturing industry, I won't say the name.
But it was, if I said everybody would know it.
And I was working with the executives and we were, and I
was teaching them, which now the field is called emotional
intelligence. I was teaching them, emotional
intelligence skills, and one of the things I showed them how to
change their emotional state simply by changing their
physiology changing way. They were breathing, change your
way were standing, so I have them, think about a problem
because I think about it, I think about problem or
frustration that you're dealing with and I have them self, I had
them put themselves, In a posture of feeling down or
depressed or discouraged. This is the posture of it.
That's it. Breathe the way you breathe.
When you're discouraged. Sit the way you sit when you're
discouraged or depressed. I said, how does your, how will
your, for, I had them put themselves as enough as you
think about that problem? Think about that problem.
As you put your body in that position, I said, how does that
problem seemed to you and everybody's like, oh and
possible to solve. There's no way.
This is just hopeless. I said, okay, I had everybody
stand up and then Shake Yourself.
I said now I want you to stand like you're a superhero that
stand up, lift your chest and your arms on the side.
I said men like you're Superman women like you're Wonder Woman.
I said, look up. That's I want you to think about
that problem as you do. I want you to laugh.
A nice, hearty laugh haha and they did that.
I had to do it several times. I said now, he think about that
problem. Now I said howhow does that
problem scene? They say, I can handle this, I
can do with this. The only thing that changed was
their emotion and we changed it not by having them think.
Positive. I just had them change their
physiology. I have them change the way
they're breathing. Okay, so our hold on.
Alright, I got to ask you a quick question so I don't lose
this one. Do you think that's why I like
it made me think of yoga because our right.
People ask me all the time. I was funny just over the last
couple weeks, I had people reach out to me, listeners and friends
and family. A few of them and asked me what
my thoughts were on yoga. And I'm like, no, I'm like, if
you Want to stretch stretch like, if you want a breather,
but I said, because there's something to it.
Now, the reason that my brain jumped is just because you were
just like making the point of like hey when we posture
ourselves certain way, it affects the emotion.
Like that is so strange to me, do you think the enemy tries to
use and compartmentalize these from what I know of yoga and its
National format? You're posing in your Literally
opening yourself up to while you're clearing yourself and
open yourself up to demonic entities, which they have a
plethora of names for to move through you from posture and
movements and like that's I don't necessarily get something.
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily so much just by
posture and reason I get that question to and I answer it is
balanced in his honest as I can. I said, if that's the case, that
is, if it's solely posture that you open up, I said, I said
because the idea is, well, they do that stretch, a yoga, if you
do That stretch, you're going to open yourself up to the enemy.
I go. Well, that's like saying if they
yawn you yawn, you're going to open up yourself, it doesn't
work that way. I said, there's also beliefs
that you need to take. Yes.
However and so, there are certain things that are taught
within the belief system that I would go.
No, those, don't those do not track with what we believe as
Christians, and those can open you up.
Beliefs, can open you up to things, some I said, but doing
Simple stretches I said, here's the thing.
I always say, I said you've got to keep in mind, the enemy.
Not a Creator or of anything? Yes.
A distorter of things and this is what because I have people
when I first start studying this day and I was, and I like I
said, I had to go outside the Christian books that I was
reading even by Christian therapist because I'll it was
limited and I start studying other things that people like
all know, you know, that you're going to again.
It was like you're going to open yourself up to the enemy.
So I was scared, you know, because I didn't want to, you
know, I don't want to myself and my family up to anything so I
was taking my time. Doing a lot of research but I
think about is what I realize is this.
The enemy would take and twist. The enemy would take what God
create it and twist it. And the Lord told me that
through Romans chapter 1 where Paul talks about God revealed
himself, one of the ways he has revealed himself is through
creation. Yes.
But if you go and you read the whole passage.
What is the test? They do says, when they, when
they saw him as God, they did not acknowledge Him as God.
But they begin to worship the creation rather than the
Creator. And they began to worship the
Sun, the moon and the stars. They begin to take trees and
make Idols. So they took what God created
that reflects God's glory, they saw the glory of creation
thinking, it was the glory of other gods and they twist it
creation from what it was intended to be, which was to
reflect back to the glory of our God.
So I Look at that. I go.
How many other things does the enemy take and twist.
I believe our job. We're supposed to be like, yeah,
we're supposed to be a light tiny into the darkness and
saying, hey, this is the original intention for why this
exists. So, wow, God's created our
physical being and our minds to work a certain way.
Not everybody that I have learned from is a Christian
because I Christians didn't know what.
I was studying at the Time. And so I had to go outside, but
I was very careful. Always stayed biblical.
I thought something was unbiblical that no can go with
that. It's not biblical.
But what I began to see was, wait a minute.
This is not so much about. Oh, is this person a Christian?
I said there's two. They're discovering things about
how the human brain and mind works.
And the way, if it's truly, this is how it works.
It's God, that created that You know?
So like I remember when I was growing up as a young Christian,
and in my early twenties, one of the biggest books around at the
time was called seduction of Christianity.
By Dave Hunt, that book had so many Christians scared and one
of the things that it had a scared about what psychology
like nope, stay away from psychology not of God.
There have been Christian ministers.
One famous lizard. In Southern California, who says
occur. And should not go to
psychologist. Because the word psyche comes
from the word suitcase which has to do with the soul, and God is
the one who made the sole, so you can't go to secular people,
only, you only need the Bible, you need Jesus, that type of
stuff was keeping me in bondage, and keeping his kept a lot of
other people in bondage. I know, because I've worked with
them because they had that thinking, and while there are
things that are said that are that are wrong.
There are also things said that are, right?
So that's what I say. We need to bring the truth.
And the spirit of Truth into these things and began looking
at it and say, what's Twisted that we need to untwist.
So when I teach on, renewing the mind, I talked a lot about
renewing the mind but you know, the foundation of it is because
I took for me, renewing. The mind is about bringing your
mind, your will and your emotions into alignment with
what God has done for you in Christ and what God is doing for
you in Christ. So that to me, biblically is
renewing, the mind is getting your mind you.
Willing your emotions and I could we could talk about the
scriptures that point to that and say that and state that or
show that, but it's getting it into agreement into harmony into
alignment with what God is working within you.
So the Bible tells us in Philippians chapter 2, verse 12
and 13 work out your own salvation with fear and
trembling and that's verse 12 verse 13 says, for it is God who
works in you both to Will and to do of his good pleasure.
So God works in us both to Will and to do, the word will is a
term that has to do with emotion has to do with feeling of
desire. He works in us, God desires, but
did, but the first part of the verse verse 12 says, we have to
work out which means we have to carry out what God is doing
within and that's the renewing of the Mind process.
So my point is saying that is the more we understand how the
Works. The more we understand how the
brain works and we can we can utilize that in a Godly way to
bring our minor Wilner emotions into alignment with what God is
doing with us and cry. So when I teach it, that's what
I'm saying, I tell people all the time I say look God is
working in you both to Will and to do of his good pleasure.
God is doing his part. You don't ever have to worry
about worry about that. You've got to do your part and
it's goes back again. I want to forget your original
question is like how that's the thing you have to learn?
How you've got to learn what I call strategies that you need?
To learn strategies. Like like the Bible says, the
Bible tells us things like put off the old man.
Okay, the Bible says, put off anger wrath.
Put off lust, right? How do you put it off, putting
Christ on it's like. Well, here's the thing is really
interesting in the scriptures. We see a consistent pattern of
before you put something on. You must first, put something
off. That is consistent Ephesians
chapter 4 says you've put off the old man, put on the new man.
Colossians chapter 3 tells us put off the old man.
Put on the new man. You know, the Bible tells us put
on the Lord, Jesus Christ to make no provision for the flesh,
when he comes when Israel went into the promised land to
possess the land, and God told them, you're going to possess
the land. If you look up the word for
possess in Hebrew, it means to possess by first In the
inhabitants of the land. What do you do?
There's this, there's this constant thing of before you can
possess something or put it on. You need to put it off now and
so we teach skills, how do you do that?
How do you put things off and and the idea of it?
We it's a way of well when you say we call it detach skills.
How do you detach from any emotional state?
That's getting me away? That stripping, you important,
we show people how to do that. But we also show them.
How do you step into emotional states that can support you?
Because one of the things that I teach, is that your emotions are
not meant to be your enemies, they are meant to be your allies
in the service of God. God did not give your emotions
to you, but to be your your enemies, but your allies.
What we have to learn to do which is part of what is taught
in emotional intelligence. And I teach it also is that
you've got to learn how to respond wisely to your emotions.
And we've not been taught how to respond wisely.
We've been taught to suppress them.
We've been taught to ignore them.
We've been taught to repress them or we've been taught to
indulge them, none of, which are good.
What? Most Christians practice is
emotional constraint. We practice emotional
constraint, which is not bad, but if you left the only
strategy, you have it becomes tiring, emotional.
Constraint is when somebody says something to you and you think I
could slap them, but I'm a Christian.
So I'm not going to do it for another two weeks, right?
But I'm not going to do it. I'm not gonna do it.
So you don't that's great. But if it's the only strategy
you have emotional constraint which is based upon willpower
and there are studies that have been done, that will power after
a while give gives out And so, people mostly when I was dealing
with that fear, I was practicing and trying to practice,
emotional constraint. And it wasn't working after a
while the emotional strength gets tiring.
So, people who struggle with addictions like porn addiction,
they try to strain. I've worked in the past with,
with some men. I had a partner that I was
working with. We did some work at a church
with men who are struggling with porn, we showed them some things
that work with them, and one of the things like, and I'm not
against what I'm getting ready to say.
But I think it's not enough. So often men will be told you
need to put blockers on your computer.
You need to give your passwords to your wife or to someone else,
you need to be accountable. And I used to look at that, I
would go okay, those are good. But what's that?
I call it the urge. I said once that urge hits you
will find your way around every single one of those things and
every guy, one guy in particular that I work with.
He said, Mike, that's so true. He said my wife would put he was
struggling with porn at one point.
He's a, my wife would put She would put blockers on the
computer to block me from going to different size.
Only, she had the password, he said, I would find a way around
it every single time. So my point here is to say none,
don't do those things. My point is what we need to
teach people. To do is how to renew their
minds, change their emotions, how to detach from that urge
when it hits them. And, and this is the thing that
most people don't realize how did how you direct your emotions
towards that, which is Godly emotions were part of the A
walking in the spirit process. I teach that people like what I
do. Yeah, your emotions are involved
and walking in the spirit It Go. I was always taught that your
emotions have nothing to do with walking this pickle.
Yeah, I know. That's wrong.
Your lips. Just have everything that can
share with you one quick thing to show that.
Yeah, Romans chapter 8, one of my favorite passages.
Mmm, the Apostle Paul says, he writes in Romans chapter 8 for
they who are after the flesh. Mind the things of the flesh.
But they who are after the spirit mind, the things of the
spirit. So, the word mind in Greek, the
Greek word, it comes from the Greek word for Nao.
This word means to direct, if you look it up, it means to
direct to mind, means to direct the intellect, the will, and the
affections or the emotions towards something.
You are aligning with something. So, to mind the things of the
flesh means, you're directing your intellect and the way it's
written in Greek is What's called the active voice in
Greek, which means the subject of the sentence is performing
the action. So when it says for they who are
after The Flesh, mind the things of the flesh, the subject of the
sentence are as days with a who are after a foot that means you
are directing your intellect, your will and your emotions
towards what is of the flesh, it gets into a lie.
I meant with what is of the flesh, but the same thing is
said of what those who are after the spirit mind the things of
the spirit. So when you're walking in the
spiritual because you are directing your intellect, your
will and your emotions towards what is of the spirit and that's
what God is working in us. 24/7 to do that, we direct our
intellect. He doesn't do it.
I tell people, I say he doesn't do it for you, he empowers you
to do it, he would do it with you, but he won't do it for you.
You've got to direct your in Like will and emotions towards
what is of the spirit. That's how you walk in the
spirit. Galatians 5:25 says, if we live
in the spirit, let us also walk in the spirit or walk by the
spirit, the word. Walk by in Greek is a word that
means to walk in alignment with, or to keep in step with.
So people who are walking in the spirit, are keeping in Step.
It's like soldiers when they're marching in there and step with
each. Other people.
Yeah, there's Santa stepped in Harmony when we're walking in
the spirit. We're In Harmony with the
spirit. Well, how do we get in harmony
with the spirit? Romans 8 tells us you've got to
direct your intellect will and emotions which is also part of
the renewing of the while. When you direct your, your
intellect will, and the emotions consistently and the waves are
written in Greek, is the idea of you do this consistently, it's
not just one time, you do it, consistently.
Then it says you'll become. If you direct your intellect
will and emotions consistently towards what is Of the flesh,
you become carnally minded, the word there is, it's the result
of minding the things of the spirit so you will develop a
disposition of carnal - but if you continually direct your
intellect will and emotions towards the things of the
spirit, you will become spiritually minded, which means
you would develop a disposition in your intellect, your will and
your emotions towards the things of the spirit.
And what I tell people is you do not have A carnal set of
emotions and a spiritual set of emotions.
You have one set of emotions but where you direct them, either
towards the flesh or towards the spirit determines, if their
carnal or spiritual, Whoo, that's a thousand emotions are
involved in. Walk in the spirit, your whole
being, I should say, is involved in Walking, in the spirit, we've
compared to compartmentalize it and said, well, now your
emotions are not involved. No, the Bible says, present your
whole body. That the biblical view of man is
that we are a dynamic whole we're not set well, I know
people talk about Spirit soul and body, but if you look at the
way Paul said that, he said I prayed.
God sanctify, your whole Spirit soul and body.
We're Dynamic unity. And so, your whole being is
involved in Walking in the spirit.
Not just one aspect of you. So that I asked you about, like,
you know, fear and does that lead, to lowering the immune
system. And we kind of, we kind of broke
that down and helped me to understand what that would look
like over time. Now, if we're walking in
obedience to God, it's the reverse of that.
It reminds me the scripture where it says, like, God will
allow, I think it is. Like the iniquity or something,
I got up to the second or third generation that's that's
peculiar to me. One of the other things would be
Oh jeez. I just have It's interesting how
Jesus would say according to your faith.
Hmm. And it reminds me of Proverbs.
So, man, thinketh he is so, do you think that it's sis we are
as people systematically desensitized to these things, so
that our will our mind and emotion cannot be in sync.
You think the enemy kind of has a long range shot where he set
because he's not a creator of anything.
Like I agree with you, he just will parallel something,
distorted, Right up or rearrange things a little bit.
He's not actually unrolling anything new.
He's availing portions of what he has, I guess.
According to the word, the right to be able to do for those who
are in Disobedience, right? Like it reminds me the verse
also this says that they would believe the law God will send
them strong delusion because they reject Even if they didn't
hear the word creation itself, speaks of his glory, his power,
right? Who he is, I was like in a
nutshell. I'm looking and going, I'm
learning so much going to be a part 2.
If you're gracious enough to give us more time down to be
digesting this for a minute, but it just, it makes me think from
all these other things I've heard on the show and just my
own kind of like experiences, right?
Enemy. I think is systematically
desensitizing people so that we are out of what we're not firing
on all cylinders. Our emotions are out of whack
and like you said you were doing with when you're younger you're
going to said, oh I'm trying to read them trying to meditate on
the word of God and then somebody's like yells at you,
your boss or your wife or somebody cuts you off in the car
and all of a sudden you flipped a switch or a whole different
person. Right.
That is so true and you started out at towards the beginning of
this episode talking about ministers.
People on the outside. They put this appearance on like
right, everything's good. And on the man and I'm coaching
people but then the realness is broken.
This behind closed doors, right? That's right.
That's why I love. I love the podcast because it's
challenged me to walk into a space where I'm capturing a
journey of learning this and wrestling with these things in
helps also that I'm finding other people like me.
And that season. For this year, I'm starting to
find a Of people that are like me and they're like, why is
there this like sacred secular divide where it's like, we don't
talk about it and if you do know, we don't talk about it.
It's like, you're an oddball, you're a black sheep, you stick
it out, you're going to be a Target and yes, a lot of times
the targeting is just an increase of the the pain that's
already there, so people that hide they've recluse all right.
So you're breaking some walls down for you right now.
If I can speak to something he says, like, why do we not talk
about this in a church? Or why are we encourage you?
Not to? I think part of the reason is up
until recently, we have had what I considered to be a bad
theology in the church about emotions.
We've had a bad Theology of emotions and what I've one of
the things you said a phrase that I coined a few years ago
was bad theology makes for bad psychology.
If you got a bad theology, can impact you mentally and
emotionally. And it really can't because I've
been I've been a victim of that in the past of, I had a
theology, let the bad psychology meaning an impact me negatively,
mentally, and emotionally in the church.
And I think this came from some of the early church fathers who
were steeped in, Greek philosophy.
We're in Greek philosophy. A lot of times emotions were
seen as evil. They're not to be trusted, and
that came down through and, and a lot of the early church,
fathers, all people know this this not to put down to two.
Probably just fat. They were steeped in.
Greek philosophy before becoming Christians.
And so we can see evidence of that in the scripture.
So there were a lot of things that they brought over and we
and a lot of it was rooted in platonic thinking separation of
Mind and Body And the emotions were bad and evil.
Intellect reason is what was important was good.
But really, when you look at the teachings of the scripture and
especially tall, Paul says, listen, everything was tainted
by sin including the intellect. Okay, including the intellect
and Romans Either one, it talks about how we gave ourselves.
We were given over to perverse desires.
Our minds were darkened, but then, when you look later on in
that same Book of Romans, you know, when Paul talks about all
the things we did that were wrong and Romans chapter 6.
He says, as you, once you did your members as instruments and
your members, refers to all of the faculties of your being, as
you once yielded, your members as instruments of
unrighteousness. This unto sin.
Now yield those, same faculties as instruments of righteousness.
Mmm, to God. So we want yielded, our members
as instruments of unrighteousness to sin.
Now, we're to take those same members cause of we have, we
have been, we have died with Christ, we've been raised with
him. So now we're to yield our
members as instruments of righteousness unto God and your
members means your body, your imagination, your motive
faculties. We aspect of your being is to be
yielded unto God, as it was once used by the enemy and used by
sin and used by flesh to express that, which was not of God.
Now it is to be used to express that, which is of god.
So, your intimate, your intellect, your imagination.
Your emotions are to be shaped by the truth of God.
I believe that went. What Jesus said is true.
You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
When we understand what it means to know the truth, in the full,
Is the word to know. The idea is that the truth
should shape, not only what you think, but it's just shape how
you feel your passion, your desire, your will.
So I tell people, I said, your emotional life needs to be based
upon the truth so that the your emotions can also be set free in
Christ. So I know where they can expect
can be what God meant for them to be.
Now that doesn't simply mean memorizing, the truth, that's
part of it but it's not all intellect, right memorizing.
Like the intellect part people. I tend to think that information
leads to transformation, it doesn't you can have all this
is, you know, when I was at, when I was struggling with this,
I knew I knew the but my nickname when I was younger was
the human concordance. Could you can ask me about
scripture and I could tell you that's what they were my family.
We call me the human concordance.
They said f ask him a special ask me where the scriptures I
hear tell you but information did not lead to my
transformation transformation so you can gather a lot of
information. With your intellect.
This is why a lot of people will know a lot of scriptures and
they're struggling. What you have to do is
inculcate, that information has to become a part of you.
Wear it shapes, your thinking, your emotions and your will that
I believe the author dollars reading was, his name was Robert
Saucy. I have to go back and check that
but he said that is a true renewing of the mind and I tell
him I said look if you're thinking differently but there's
not a shift in your emotional state.
Hmm. You haven't renewed your mind
yet you've gathered information. That's Good.
But it needs to move over to where it is, now shifting, and
that takes again, strategies to be able to do that.
And you have to know specific and it's not like or these
secret things know, they're not secret their things actually
within the biblical text that we could.
I was I was reading a book last night.
Matter of fact, I have a right here.
It's called my beloved brothers and sisters, and scholarly book.
And it's called Christian, Sibley shipping and Paul.
The writer. One of the things he writes
about is Paul's letter to Philemon.
When and how Paul was utilizing emotive terms, emotional terms
in order to affect Philemon stinking so he would make
certain decisions. So my point here is this in
this, and we could talk about this another time, but it might
be, is that the writers of scripture understood rhetorical
strategies and devices that were used to help to encourage people
to shifter? Think I'll give you a quick
illustration. You've probably read, Hebrews
chapter 11. Right, the great faith Hall of
Fame, right? Your by faith Abraham did this
by faith. Moses did this, you know, the
purpose of Hebrews chapter 11, why it's there?
Hmm, okay, so no he wasn't, Hebrews chapter 11 is an example
or it, is it illustrates what is known in the ancient in the
ancient world and Antiquity as an examples list in the ancient
world when you wanted people? To to embody a certain virtue,
you would provide them a list of people who were respected, well,
known that they knew that they respect it.
Who embodied those virtues the idea of it was to effect an
emotional response to that so that they would start to embody
that virtue also. So in Hebrews, so Hebrews
chapter 11, now you have to keep in mind who's the book of
Hebrews written to is written to people who are under Fusion to
turn away from faith, in Christ. What are they being exhorted to
do? In Hebrews chapter 11, to remain
faithful, which is the the idea of faith in Hebrew, in Hebrew,
and in Greek piece. This is faithfulness loyalty to
remain faithful, not just believe, but to remain faithful
and loyal to Christ. How does the author of Hebrews
seek to do it? When we talk about the, how he
doesn't just tell them. Hey, stay faithful.
He gives them an example list. This was you, this was no.
Known in the ancient world and it was.
And so it was literally a device, a strategy for
encouraging faithfulness. It's in the biblical text.
That's something a white. Have we known this?
Most of this information is locked up as scholarly, journals
got a chance to read but I remember my mentor, dr.
Bean. He's always say, the problem
with Scholars is that they tend to only write to other Scholars.
A lot of this information is filtered down but in fact dr.
Bean had an ization. Which my wife and I are in
charge of it was called the center for the study of biblical
research. Its purpose was to make
scholarly information and disseminated to the person in
the pew. So I'm selling these demand.
I told you, I'm studying, I'm going, oh my God.
So wait a minute. In Hebrews chapter 11 is
actually a rhetorical strategy known as an example list, which
is supposed to encourage it creates encouragement.
It creates motivation, that's dealing with the emotions.
But I had never been in. Every book I have ever read.
I've never been told that, but it was a scholar by the name of
David de Silva. One of my favorite Scholars and
another scholar by the name of Blues.
Michael caught Crosby who wrote about examples list that on
that. I learned about this David
dasilva, introduced me to Michael Crosby's work, and I
wouldn't read Michaels Crosby's work.
And I went, oh my gosh, there are other things there are other
rhetorical where we call rhetorical devices or strategies
in the scriptures. That are designed to create a
shift in the emotions of the people who are hearing the text
in it. Come up with, in the originally
who heard it? I have a say this real quick and
I'm now I'm saying a lot of stuff.
The Bible originally was not written to be read.
The Bible was written. Originally, the Bible was
presented as something. You hear, the ancient culture
was an oral culture and an oral culture.
It was a speaking and listening cult or retelling.
Yeah, storytelling even the Epistles were written.
In to be read out loud and the way the scholars have looked at
announced that the way these things are structured.
In the Greek. They are not, we read it.
Like we will read Hebrews chapter, 11, we go by faith,
Abraham by faith, Joshua, only by faith, Rahab by faith.
Noah, that's the way we read it. Originally would have been read,
like I see a table by faith, Noah my faith and it was
building to this Crescendo so it was Stir Up emotions.
Within the hearers to effect a change of thinking.
All right, to two things. Nothing.
The scene from where the Apostle Paul.
I think it's at the Parthenon. Mmm.
Right. And you can see he's going.
He's looking at all these statues.
That the Greeks have to discard and that God.
And then he can just it's like, dramatic it's alive, right?
You can see them, jump up, and be like, listen, I'm declaring
to you. This statue to the unknown.
God, I'm making a declaration today who he is, right?
He was not sitting there like Oh, by the way, hey guys, hey
crowd of people that you can see, right?
Hall was right. Harry emotionally and bright?
Yes, yes he was. He was there are things that I
teach one of the keys to emotional intelligence with
other people is being able to get Rapport create connection
with others. I teach these in classes in
corporations. There's a pilot each called
leading with the emotional intelligence.
And one of the things we say, is, if you're going to lead
people, you gotta create Rapport, you gotta pee.
Great connection with them. Hmm and we said that one of the
ways you have to do that is you have sometimes you have to flex
or change or be a flexible in your own communication style, we
all have our own style of communicating.
If you want to connect with another person you've got to
communicate in their style not according to your style.
Okay? That's important.
Wow, it's all. Did this the Apostle Paul?
Did this Paul said to the Jews I become a Jew to the Greek.
I become angry. I become all things.
Things to all to those without law.
I become as one without law yet, I'm not without law under
Christ, I become all things to all men that I might win some,
in the Greco-Roman world, this was known as adaptability, its
thing, it was an actual strategy.
Yes, employed it. And there's a way to look at it.
Also, from a Jewish perspective, he employed it in order to reach
other people. So when people go are they
things description? This is not scriptural, I go,
you don't understand the history and the culture, you don't
understand what you're you. Don't you're not looking in
depth at what's being said in the history and culture of the
day like examples list that was part of the culture
adaptability, as a speaker. That was part of the culture
speakers would use emotion, they would speakers would make where
was known as appeals that were make appeals to three things to
logic to character. And to emotions is in Greek.
It is logos, ethos and pathos. We teach these things today.
Aristotle was the one who originally codified all of this.
When you look in the biblical text, when you look in the Old
Testament, when you look in the New Testament, you see the
writers of scripture, making it appeals to logic logos
character? They talk about themselves and
their character. Why they could be trusted Paul
saying things. Like, I was, I was asleep.
I mean, I was I was I've gone without food.
I've been beaten three times of the Jews.
I was, because she's making it, you just make it.
Yeah, he's making an appeal to his Character.
Yes, that's what we call that an Ethel's appeal.
When he says he said. And then when he talks to you
like the Galatians and he goes, oh you foolish Galatians.
Most Scholars say, I believe is Galatians chapter 4.
They say glitch instructor for is one of the most emotional
passages within the scripture. Paul is very emotional in but
he's emotional on purpose in order to effect a change.
So, my point is saying is that There are actually strategies
within the biblical text. I can tell you one in from the
book of Deuteronomy. Hmm.
So in Deuteronomy chapter and if I'm going to allow you to sell
me stuff because I know I'm going on, I'm plugged in for a
little bit, okay, he's not crazy.
So in Deuteronomy chapter 7, God tells Israel that they're going
to face Nations that are greater than them.
And that are that are stronger than that, they just bigger and
he says to them I don't want you to be afraid when You Face these
nations because remember Israel wandered around for 40 years in
the wilderness because when God brought them to the land, he
sent the Spies, spies came back and said we can't do it.
There's Giants in the land and people said, well, let's make a
captain and go back into Egypt and they end up forty years in
the wilderness. So God, as their, you know,
Moses is saying his Farewell. He tells the people, when you
come to this land and you see Nations bigger than you, he says
to them do not Not be afraid. Now.
He doesn't just leave it there. He actually tells them how not
to be afraid in the next verse. Now, I only knew this when I
start studying these things from a psychological and
neuroscientist I went, oh my gosh.
And then I actually started to study, didn't said, Yep, this is
what this word is referring to. He next says to them, when you
see the Nations that are bigger than you do not be afraid, then
he says this, you shall well. Remember, what the Lord your God
did unto pharaoh and to Egypt, the Great Signs and miracles and
wonders. That your I saw.
He said, You shall remember the Hebrew word is the car, which
means to bring something back to mine.
Do you choose to, to, basically, to remember it to relive it, you
bring, here's the thing, you bring something back to mine, in
order to be moved by it. What you bring to mind is to
shape your behavior. So when he says to Israel, you
are to remember. He says, Don't Be Afraid.
How does he tell them? Not to be afraid call to mind
everything that you saw God do? What is that going to create
within them confidence in their God, what he said, don't be
afraid. He wasn't saying, okay, you're
going to feel fear but don't act afraid, you know, people say
feel the fear and do it. Anyway I said, okay, that's
true. You can do that is really hard
to feel the fear and do it. Anyway I have a a saying I said
you can feel the fear and do it anyway or you can get rid of the
fear and do it even better. So my thing is, you don't you
don't have to live in fear and God tells Israel call to mind
what I have done for you. All that you saw remember the
plagues. Remember the frogs.
Remember the darkness? Remember the see splitting call
all of that to mine so that you will be shaped by what you saw
my Power at work, that'll put your confidence in me and you
won't be afraid. That is a strategy that God gave
yet Faith. He gave them a practical way of
putting their faith in God because faith is the substance
of things hoped, for the evidence of things.
Unseen, it reminds me of David. I forget what it says is the Old
Testament, but he's out with his men and there's a raid while
they're gone and they're women or children or Samuel chapter
30. Yes, there is.
And Dave come with men in their groomer of his own men, his own
dudes talking about, we're going to Stone him, we're gonna get
rid of them and David does something very peculiar that
most men don't do today. Hmm.
He goes and gets the ephod and he goes and inquires of the Lord
like music, you've always been with me.
I've been on the run, I fought the bear.
I fought the lion Goliath. Who could forget that, right?
He's King Saul's. Chasing me.
He's the But really, I'm the anointed and I won't take it
until you make it evident. And I'm still on the run in the
wilderness, but you never left. So, man.
I'm you got more time with this because this is important for
me, and for everyone who's going to hear, because this is
critical. What can I can?
I can I go back to that story of David?
And first Samuel. Yes, yes, yes, you're calling
one of my favorite passages. I love to teach on.
First Samuel. Chapter 30 verses 1 through 6,
which are referring to when the hits when the Kites came and
burned down ziklag. Yes and his men they stay.
So imagine if they come back, everything's burned to the
ground. Their wives are gone, their
children are gone and it said, the men begin to all of them
began to weep for grief understandable as a normal human
reaction, right. Then it says, because of their
grief, they became angry and they began to speak of stoning.
David. So, now they're starting to
blame David for what has happened, and it says that David
was afraid and I always say, well, my son, if my men spoke of
spoke of stoning me, I'd be afraid to.
So they talked about killing him.
Now, you talk about the ephod, but there's one crucial piece
that happens. Right?
Before that, it said David was afraid.
But then the next verse says, David encouraged himself in the
Lord, his God. Then he saw, and I always tell
people, I said, notice what it says it does not say and the
Lord came and encourage David. It says, David encouraged
himself in the Lord his God or you can read encourage or
strengthen. But he strengthened himself
which which and I use, I teach this one of the princes, what we
teach is that your emotions are not determined by what happens
outside of you, your emotions are determined by what happens
within you. And so, David encouraged himself
in the midst of a situation where his men are speaking of
killing him, the village is burned down in the midst of all
of this David encouraged himself because there's no one left to
encourage him. David changed, his emotional
state, in the midst of the devastation, it enabled him to
make the right decision. Remember we said before when you
are in negative, emotional states, it can cause you to make
the wrong decisions, right? Right, you your creativity gets
shut down your resourcefulness. Get shut down David's men
because of the negative emotional state.
They were in wanted to kill him. Hmm, David, it says,
strengthened himself in the Lord, then he sought the Lord.
And the Lord said, he said, shall I pursue God said pursue,
you will recover all if you read the rest of the story, David
pursued, they recovered everything plus more.
Here's the thing to me, that is a great example of emotional,
intelligence and Leadership, but here's the thing, think about
this, wow, if David's men had killed him out of the mm
negative emotional state that they were in, they would have
lost everything that they later recovered, they never would have
recovered it and they killed David.
But because David strengthened himself changed, his emotional
state, sought the Lord that enabled them to recover
everything. So, this is why I believe it is
so important for us to know how to manage our emotional
well-being. Because it determines there's a,
there's a, there's a quote, as I say, determines our quality of
life, there's a quote, from a psychologist who passed away
last year, his name is mihaly csikszentmihalyi, he was a
psychologist. He Was the originator of the
concept of flow like you when you when we talk about being in
the flow you don't athletes are in the floor in the zone.
He studied that he studied it scientifically.
He said in his book flow is called the book is called flow,
the psychology of optimal experience.
He said, people he's at the people who learn to control
their inner experience, will be able to determine the quality of
their lives. That right there in a nutshell,
that's the work that I do. It's helping people to control
their inner experience, so that they're able to determine the
quality of their lives. David in that story.
In first Samuel controlled his inner experience and it affected
the quality of his life because they were able.
He got clear-headed enough to seek God.
And his leadership LED not only to the recovery of everything,
but they got even more. But had his men killed him out
of anger, although mr. They would have lost it.
All in never would have recovered anything.
So do our enduring, our our our, our emotions, important to the
quality of life that we live. Absolutely.
Now talk about as Christians,
there it is. Important to that to the quality
of our Christian Life. Just just because I'm like, I'm
skipping to these places in my brain was like that's on the
back burner because God, I know someday you're going to make
sense of it, right? And we recovered a lot of these
things. But if there's some personal
things like when I think of like the discipline of the Lord, like
doing the Lord disciplines those who he loves, I don't know what
that is supposed to mean like from Biblical standpoint or from
like just a very understood standpoint but I know like
Personally, for me, I have gotten to a place where I know
what the word says. And this is an old, he's like a
couple times where I've had this connection that, that you're
kind of putting words to and helping me to understand some of
these pockets of of our life. Like him working, innocent Drew
us to cost as well to come about.
It didn't happen overnight and it's not happening overnight for
me, it is a process but There's times where I'll know I had read
and knew the scripture said, like, don't look at a woman with
lust in your heart. You commit adultery already has
like many riding around, like, oh, geez, right?
That's really bad. You know, this is gonna be hard,
right? I can't go to the gym this week,
guys, you know, the routine. Cognitively.
And in our mind, we know, but then aligning our will and our
emotion all in sync. There's certain things were in
my private life. I knew like it was like a flash
in my mind. This is what the scripture says
and then there was a check of my will my motive.
Mmm? And because there's times where
I didn't listen, and I understood those moments where I
was alone with the God and it was just reread.
Stir in like you didn't you weren't obedient in this little
thing like that happen. Bear in the long and and you
need to learn that that's not a good outcome that I actually
would start to like make sense to me.
Become alive to me. I was like God, your will not
mine and I'd say stuff, like, every time I get the ball, I
wreck this like, I'm not me doing it.
My way is not working, married, seven years and my wife's in the
other room, probably can hear this and his giggling as I'm
even talking, because it's so true.
Hmm. And then my emotion.
Do I want to please God. Do I want his outcome in my
life. It's just so weird to hear.
You say it from like, like reversing the systematic
desensitization from the enemy in the world and absolutely
plugging in realistic like terms and training strategies plans,
that you can actually start to go.
I'm sharpening in this way and right for this to be the the
outcome because if in my experience and I don't know much
but but When we want to serve God, when Christ is like, we're
not just like, Oh I'm a Christian and I'm doing
everything. The world's doing when we're
really trying to be holy as he is, Holy trying to be set apart
failing, terribly. In my case.
The I feel like man you shouldn't have said that that
hurt that person and it's like like it's like my will wants to
be flipped into like I don't want to ever do that again.
And then there's like their trauma of if it happens again.
And I think the enemy then plays on the mental note, you didn't
get it right last week so we're heading right?
And this is the battle that me as a man sitting here, talking
to another man in Christ. This is the stuff I deal with.
And I'm not alone, right? It's been like my hands down and
honor to hear you. Share your heart and your
research, your experience of what God has called you to just
one body. One, Spirit, many members
diversity of roles that we play. And I think that's something
else. I really like to talk with you
about a down the road to because the old way of doing things
doesn't work, it out. Your God has showed us that man.
I got to tell you the word spoke that to me one time.
When Once years ago, when I was studying all of this, and I had
come to a lot of insight, it was working for me was working for
other people, but I still have a little bit of Doubt of God, is
this, is this, right? This is the right path.
And I was struggling with it and one night, I went, and I sit on
this bench and we're by, where I used to live, is little gazebo.
I said there and the Lord just spoke to me.
It was a powerful moment, powerful, but he spoke to me and
basically, the message was you are on the right track.
Then I heard this. They're going to be people who
will come to you like Nicodemus in the night pastors many people
because they're struggling because the old answers or will
no longer be working. He literally spoke that to my
heart fast forward, a couple of decades later.
This is what we see happening. People coming and going I read
my Bible and pray, I fast, I have people pray over me.
I had people cast things out of me.
I'm still Bubbling I thought people come to me and say, do I
have a demon? I go?
No, you just walking in the flesh and you to renew your
money and they go. And they look relieved, to go,
really? Because they're Believers and
they've been told they have a demon dog like that.
You don't have a demon because and the reason they've been told
as a demon because I said, I've tried and I tried and I tried
and I tried and I tried and I can't overcome it and I go
because you're trying to overcome it either at a
behavioral level You're trying to overcome it at an
intellectual level. You haven't dealt with the
emotional of and sometimes dealing with the emotional level
means I need to deal with stuff. I need to do with my stuff from
my past. I need to get that cleared up.
I mean I need to deal with outdated beliefs.
I work with a guy because one of the things I do is marital
coaching, we call it. We it's coaching that we do a
couple's awful, things that I've learned and part of that is
teaching them to deal with their emotions.
And I work with a guy, one time who wants to reassure, he was
having some problems. He was, he was doing some things
in his marriage that was called in his marriage to fall apart,
right? So we met he and I we have been
working together to that point about.
So you and I need to meet one-on-one.
I'm gonna find out what it was. He had a belief on the inside of
him. That said, there's something
wrong with me. People always leave me.
And he had this belief since he was a kid, he had experienced it
with his parents, hit experience it with one of his brothers get
experience, it with an old girlfriend, who left him for
another family member. So he had this belief that there
was something wrong with him. So his idea was before my why?
Cuz he would say I don't understand why she's with me.
She's pretty, she's beautiful. Why is she with me?
So here's think it was eventually she's going to leave
me. So when his wife are go out with
her girlfriends, she was a Godly woman.
Hugo where you going to do with my girlfriend's?
He goes, why are you dressed like that?
You understand that for me? Why are you looking like that?
Why are you putting on that cologne that perfume?
He would so he would but it was the fear.
He had never recognized his. So when we were talking and
there's a process of asking questions to help to undo
Unearthed this stuff, we came to that he said, oh my gosh, he
said, because part of the process was I said, I said, how
are you? How do you feel when you're in
the he says, I just feel like, I don't know.
I just like I don't understand why I said will stay with that.
Feeling for a second, I go in order to feel this way.
What do you have to believe is true?
He stopped for a moment and he went.
There's something wrong with me and that's why people leave me
and he Tears. Start coming.
He said I never realized that before, so we change that
belief. We re-establish it with the
truth of God. Part of it was finding his honor
in God, we established his honoring.
God one session, I'm not kidding.
You one session, it changed his life, his marriage turned around
his wife, testified to it. When they were coming to me for
murder coaching, they were sent to me by their Pastor, who's a
friend of mine and I later interviewed them and I said,
when you first came to me on a scale of 1 to 10, how bad was
your marriage, the wife said 20, I said really she goes, she
said, she said, we were on the edge and I was getting ready to
push him off. And I met with them for a year.
Mmm work with them. Work through a lot of emotion,
taught them, how to deal with their own emotions.
He had that breakthrough, totally turned around everything
around. Hmm.
And I said to them, the very first day we met, probably, this
is from the Lord. I said, you guys are going to be
working with married, okay? Married couples.
And they looked at me, like, I had two heads.
They're like, we don't even like each other and you're talking
about us, you know what she said?
I don't like him right now. I love him, but I don't like
him. Today, this is like five years
later. They are the head of the
marriage, Ministry at their Church.
They had a marriage conference. They invited me to be their
guest speaker, and they're doing a marriage retreat in Hawaii.
I think this year and I told him, I said, why wasn't I
invited to that one? That's the one I really want to
go to Wills involved. My emotions evolved
intellectually, but it was always changing the emotional
level at the level and finding out what was wrong and making
that Shit. A lot of people are doing things
Christians that they don't want to do, and they're told to stop
doing it and they're trying but they don't understand that they
are living in Romans 7, the good that I would.
I do not the evil that I would not, that is what I'm doing, who
will deliver me? And people are telling them what
Jesus Will, and it's true. And I tell people said, listen,
the tools are just instruments in means by which God can work
to affect your renewing of your mind.
That's a, the he is the source of the healing, he is the source
of the transformation. The tools are just means by
which he can work, but they are told you need to stop doing
this. You need to stop doing the and
they use, the are told it at the behavioral level or the
cognitive intellectual level. And I'll say there's one.
Last thing I was praying one day and about this about Temptation
after there's two things. I like to say, if you don't mind
one is what I was thinking about Temptation.
And I believe the Lord showed me he says I was studying this one
else. I think about Jesus Temptation
and I was meditating on the Temptation, I think it's Mark
for Luke 4. And the worst are show me says,
when my people are tempted by the enemy, Satan tempts you at
the intellectual and the emotional of thoughts to the
mind which stirs up emotions, right?
He's about when my people respond to the Temptation, they
only respond intellectually. And they leave the emotions out.
This is why we struggle because our thoughts are going one way
our will maybe going. I want to do what's right, but
our emotions are going the opposite direction.
And Jesus enunciated a principal.
He says A house divided against itself.
Will fall. You can't stand people sometimes
when I teach them as they go. Well, aren't you motion aren't
emotions unreliable? We've always been taught.
Emotions are unreliable, you can't count on your emotion, I
go. If that's true.
Why is that the number one weapon of the enemy against us?
I think about it. What is James say about
Temptation. Every man, when he is, tempted
is drawn away by his own King, James has less but the word
actually in Greek is desire. He is drawn away by his own
desire. Every Temptation has a feeling
emotional desire involved. If you take the feeling emotion
and desire out of a Temptation, out of it, out of the
Temptation, it ceases to be a Temptation.
Yeah, if you came to me said, Mike, want a cigarette would
mean nothing to me. I don't, I've never If you said
Mike, want some crack with mean anything to me because I've
never done drugs. If you came to me, said Mike was
some dryers French, vanilla ice cream.
Now, we got a problem. Now I'm like, oh, get behind me,
you know, donut, no, we got a problem.
Why there is emotion and desire into that?
There is none link to cigarettes cocaine, alcohol.
You could throw alcohol in front of me all day long.
And I said, one drink, I call them said, I don't drink, but if
you were say, I come on. Come on, let's get drunk.
It would hold no appeal to me whatsoever, but if you hold a
box of glazed doughnuts in front of me, now, I gotta walk in the
spirit. Got to apply some tool to walk
away from that. You'd get the point that I'm
making emotional much. So, save me, utilizes our own
emotions against us. That's why I told people, I go
people go, oh, they're unreliable our goal yet.
Every time you're tempted, and if you're tempted in the same
thing over and over, it's funny how reliable those emotions are.
It's a mass training. If you train, unreliable
emotions are emotions that have not been trained.
And I'll leave it at that. Tell, tell my listeners where
they can find you. Like, if you have a show, do you
have a website? We actually going to be starting
a podcast pretty soon called for the Christian Community.
I believe we're going to call it the flourishing life and we're
going to be talking about all of these things.
I did a whole series at our church called on, we called it
success and prosperity of Kingdom perspective, when we
talk about the concept of flourishing and looked at, you
know, what does the world say? What are some a buret teachings
in the body of Christ? What is the Bible?
A really say, you know, so we're looking to start soon.
I need is actually set a date for it, but we're going to be
doing a podcast for the Christian Community called the
flourishing life. We do trainings, there's a
training, we have called Sanctified emotions, which is
emotional intelligence for Christians.
We actually have a coaching certification program called New
Creation coaching where we certify people to be coaches to
work with Christians and weave. Train them in the different
tools and stuff that I use that we created that we've done two
of those so far. And there's another train we do
call patterns for renewing the mind which is another
certification people can find me primary same way you did go on
Facebook with me up you know, Mike Davis, they can type I
think it's www. Huh.
Mike, I think I'll of us here. We cut out.
Yeah, we found it for a second. Yeah, I can hear you now.
Can you hear me? Can you hear me now?
Okay? Yes, you're back.
You're back. Yeah.
Sorry about that. Yeah, but they can reach me on
Facebook. There's look up.
Mike Davis, we have a YouTube channel called kic TV.
I think we're freezing up again. Can you hear me?
We froze up. One more time can hear me now?
Yes, it's gonna happen. Didn't it out.
Yeah. Maybe he's telling us, we need
to quit, but we have a YouTube channel called kic TV.
It's is keeping it in context TV with my day.
Davis. Why do a lot of Biblical
teaching on different topics and we look at it within historical
cultural context? Look at the Greek, the Hebrew
ancient near Eastern culture but we make it interest.
You have told you I don't do boring, we make it interesting
and fun to learn and so we also can be starting another YouTube
channel and podcast where we're talking, we're going to be
talking about emotions, renewing the Mind success from a Biblical
perspective, which I like to use the term flourishing.
Like, because what, I'm a big believer in that, is that
success is not really something that you To pursue is something
that you live. It's a way of living rather than
a weight then rather than something you pursue.
Yeah. And has to do with what I call
the flourishing life that God wants us to flourish but has to
do more with how we lived and what we then what we acquire you
know. So but yeah they can reach me on
Facebook as the door they can write me.
I'll give you my email address, it's MLD training.
So m is in mykel isn't lying these and dog MLD training at
msn.com. Mom.
Yeah, it was an honor that was an absolute link you.
This is fun. Love to have you back for a part
2 in this spring beginning of summer this year.
And that's it. That's the show everybody.
I know this was edifying because it's edifying for me if you
learned something If this causes you to laugh and just just think
different about the way that you're living and what gods were
and the tools he's given us. Then I want you to share this
with a friend, a family member share this with your past coming
to you from Southeastern Pennsylvania.
God Bless America and goodbye. Thank you for letting me indulge
myself. I know I go off.
There is absolutely. Let me call my wife a real
quick. I just want to say hi.
Oh yes. Yeah, it's time to I'm three
hours ahead of you, right, right.
But we've been married seven years.
Cool. My son's.
He turns six on Friday. So we got a little dude.
First first year in kindergarten this year, it has been rough.
But my wife, she's actually been in the country.
For I like to see 12 almost 13 years, she's actually from the
Philippines. Wow, You can see that that's a
picture of me and her glare on it or not I see it as a sort of
restaurant is time Russia but it's fascinating because, you
know, I like I said, I grew up outside of Philadelphia and I
just knew like this culture, you know, like did you yet and how
you do it, right? It does culture and she was a
shock. She was like, wow.
Like like just I'm like what you live how and you carry yourself
in what way and one of the things that attracted me to her
so much and one of the things she says about me is about
honest was that I have twins that are there going to be 16
years old. Hmm, out of wedlock.
You know, I was, I was young, I was very young.
I was 18 almost turning 19 when we have by the in Siena
fraternal twins and very worthy work.
Relationship worldly everything but it's she what God has been
teaching me through my wife. Like I wasn't allowed in her
mother's house to like and the we're engaged culture shock.
Like for me I'm like well I respect it because I got my
heart broken it on my God, I'm celibate for a little while and
you know coming to the Lord at that 24 years old.
So I started to change as mistakes, but it's not hard to
change this go. The more I get this right, you
know. I don't want to I don't want to
die in all of this. But anyway, she's been on.
She's been quite a rock and, you know, a challenge and just just
causing me to forcing me to see things differently.
Like, because she's done America night.
I tell people, she's on Americanized.
And like, what do you mean by that?
I'm like, you know, if you know, we don't know ourselves, we
right. And there's so many Loose Ends
especially biblically in like from a man who's terribly flawed
like, where I'm at and what I know God wants me to be holy as
he is Holy. I know I'm not living whole, you
know, I still am wrestling and dealing like I smoke cigars, my
wife, who eats it and that's one of the like the last Frontiers.
Whereas I don't I'm a drink in, I never intervene it.
Like, did hard drugs or nothing like that, you know, I partied
when I was younger, but I'm like that's so hard to quit these
smoking these little cigars and you're saying stuff from this
episode tonight, where I'm like, My will you're my intellect.
I like by does all this stuff has to line up but I'm like why
are we not talk to think that way?
That's why I say things like systematic desensitization.
Yeah yeah get like some secret backdoor to Christianity
Christians. You actually got it, right?
And then there's all of us out here who need help.
Yeah, I'm telling you. That that was me.
I when I started with, I was like, why are we not told?
And then I realized is because nobody else knew we didn't know,
you know, and the way like I said, we had a we've had a bad
theology about emotion. Matter of fact there was a guy
named Martin Seligman, he was the past president of the
American Psychological Association when he became the
president. He gave his inaugural address
and he said in Gee, we've been studying maladaptive emotions
from almost the beginning of psychology, many new study,
anger, and rage and depression, is that we just studied all the
negative emotions. He said we need to start
studying positive emotions, and the impact that they have.
A, how do we nurture? And I was surprised when I heard
his own, wait, a minute psychologist that hasn't been
there, that wasn't their focus. So that began began a whole
movement in Psychology called positive psychology.
That's been going on now. Now, for about 25, 30 years.
Okay, I remember when it started and when I heard him say that I
went, that's the same problem. We've had in Christianity, we
have studied the - if you it, when II started collecting books
by Christians, by Christian therapists and psychologists,
most of them dealt with their things.
Like how to get over a hanger, how to get over lust, how to get
over depression. There was nothing about how do
you cultivate or I should say, there's nothing.
There was very little on. How do you cultivate?
They Joy, are you cultivate? Peace.
How do you? And then there was, there was
absolutely nothing on. How do you utilize your emotions
to change your emotions. There is nothing on that and
I'll be honest with you, they're still really nothing on that
that that's we've gotten better in the body of Christ.
I've been tracking it for the past 30 years we've gotten
better. We were talking about emotions
down the church. We're talking about things we
struggle with but I said, but we still got some catching up to
do. There are there are things that
I know I do. And I'm not a therapist, I tell
people that. I'm not a therapist.
I'm not a counselor. I'm a coach.
That's what. And I said, I'm a pastor and I'm
a coach but I have actually trained therapist and what I do
because they're like, what are you doing?
How are you? So, I've had therapist come to
my training so that they can learn my tools and strategies
that I've learned from other people and because they and I I
have a couple of friends who are counselors.
They're licensed Who knew me mm0?
I'm sorry. I don't mean to keep you man.
I know you got to go. No, no, I'm hanging onto it.
Like I'm loving. It's one of those things.
Like I I've been up since 4:00 a.m. so forgive you and it a
little bit but I have offered a next five days.
That's why. I was like totally cool with
this late interview because I'm doing a training this past
weekend. We get up at four in the
morning. We start at 4:30 minutes.
Degrees and counseling. Okay, I have another friend who
has a master's degree in counseling.
All three of them told me that they were not really taught how
to help people to change. They spent all I said, yes, but
you spent all this money and they go, I know.
But I was not two of them, I have personally trained and they
get the intellect, they get intellect, intellect, intellect
from school, my will, in the emotion, yet, one of my friends
is a really cool to. He's a pastoral, he's in charge
of pastoral care at a church in Minnesota.
L. Can he told me?
He said, Mike, he said what you and Bob Bob was my partners in
this guy who trained me. He said, what Mike taught me.
He said we learn any of that in my class is that we didn't learn
any of that and I go really, I said, what did you learn?
He said, we were taught models of change but we were not taught
how to help people to change. Oh wait, you're kidding me.
I'm working with a young lady. Now who's a therapist she when I
first met her she saw me on somebody's interview.
She said, can I contact you as a?
Yeah. So we taught and I showed her a
simple tool to help people and release negative emotions She's
like oh my gosh she said you just giving me something to help
my client. She said, cause sometimes I work
with my clients, all this emotion gets stirred up but then
I don't know what to do with all these emotions that get stirred
up. So they leave my session with
all these emotions. And I was like, oh, that's
terrible because I never when I have clients, always tell them.
I said, I will never leave you worse than when you came in.
Never, I do not do that. I've heard that there are a lot
of therapists who do that. They'll stir up all these
emotions. Then I go.
Well, our time is up, I'll see you next week.
Take a double dose of your medicine for the next three
days. So that you don't know, man.
Tell me you and I respect their opinions but some of the what I
realized they have the tool so I share with the generator for let
me show you a simple tool. She shared it with her client.
She said, she said my client called me back said, man, this
is this is made such a difference.
I thank God for this. She said, when I get depressed,
now I know how to release it. Let It Go.
But I don't get stirred up and she ended therapist was thanking
me. She said, thank you.
You shown me a way of helping my Ants and now so she wants to
take the training with me. She says let me know when you're
doing a training, I got another therapist who wants to join the
training. So so so what does that training
look like if I was like I mean we're three hours differences.
It's online obviously? Right?
Yeah. We do it first and only or one
of them is what we call a hybrid approach.
It is. Okay.
Part of its online. That's the patterns for
Renewing, Your Mind part of its online.
Part of it. It's, we make face to fit, well,
we weren't doing it during the pandemic.
So we actually, I didn't even Trainees during the pandemic
because we're doing so many other ones.
The other two are online though, and we normally do the.
So the Sanctified emotions one, which is for your personal and
then the, the coach certification, which is for
working with other people. Those two are done all online,
they're all online. We usually be using meet once a
week for about two hours in the evening and you get practices.
Then we sometimes we do extra Shinzon the weekend where we
meet together we talked about how is it working for you?
There's not working right? Like there are coaches that I
still work with in terms of like they'll get it could.
Hey Mike I'm working with this person and so I approached this
because I've been doing this. Hmm, I've been doing the
coaching part for over 20 years. The guy like 20 years experience
and so I go. Okay, did you try this?
Did you do this? They go?
No, I didn't ask. Okay, try that.
Let me know how it works so I consult with them.
Hmm, you know? And so we do that too.
So I With my coaches. Some of them are they've been
coaches for a while. Some of them are new.
So I go I walk with you I you know hold your hand for long as
you need most. I think it's necessary to help
you get started. Help you in working with people
because I tell him I said once you learn the skills that
doesn't mean you're an expert that just means you know, the
skills becoming an expert takes time, you know, training the
training course. Yeah.
Because those aren't our coaches, our coaches training is
over fifteen week period. So we meet Once a week.
Yeah. And you get about two hours,
that's two hours of the actual time, and then the extra
meetings we have, but because I want to make sure people are
thoroughly trained, but you keep training actual tools to help
people to change. So we show them how to do it.
We show them how to ask good questions, how to listen, what
we're getting ready to do next, is create a because I've we've
had a lot of success with helping marry couples.
We're going to do a training on how to work out a coach married
couples. So because a friend, Of my one
of the coaches I trained. She said are you going to do a
training on how to work with couples?
Oh wait, no, I said the train I gave you guys.
She says, no, no, you do something different.
I hear you talking about it. She said I thought about went.
Yeah, I do kind of do some things differently there so but
we but in the trainees we talk about two things, we talk about
principles and patterns. We talked about the principles
of change and then we show you the patterns of the strategies
to help people change and we do it all from a Biblical
perspective. I have closed until it was a
neuroscientific perspective where he said, well said, I have
a lot to learn. I thank God, I'll say this in
close. I thank God for the path you
take. It was difficult in the early
years. I didn't know if I was going
down the wrong path but what it made me do was study very hard
and in depth now I get people coming to me having questions
like oh well what about this? What about this?
How does this fit with scripture?
I go. Oh it's okay let's talk about
That It Go like, oh my God. You really, I've had, I had a, I
had a psychologist. One time who was struggling with
being a psychologist, because he was a Christian.
And he said, he's at my family, condemns me for being a
psychologist. They said, I'm not trusting God,
so I sat down with him at lunch one day, let me share with you
what God showed with me, and he started crying.
And he said, you've helped me in 30 minutes more than I've been
helped in a long time. Is it just by sharing your
journey? So, I look at what I've In
through that God is now he's now using it to help other people.
And so I'm very grateful. Keep him what you told me to
keep doing it. When you are to thank you for
having me on your podcast.