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Hello folks, this is Princess. 
You are listening to the 

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Millennial Mustard. 
Seed Podcast, thanks for 

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listening. 
Don't forget to share with your 

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friends. 
That's tough. 

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We're in a very tough spot. 
I think that what we're doing 

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right now is a great benefit and
virtue because it's an end 

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around between this whole 
corrupt informational system 

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media system. 
We claim to believe in a God who

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spoke the universe into 
existence and literally raised 

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himself from the dead. 
And yet we're not going to 

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believe that anything else 
exists in the spirit realm, even

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though his word tells us that 
they do. 

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Their bodies weren't permitted 
to go to sleep like humans do, 

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and they weren't permitted to go
to heaven, so they wander the 

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earth. 
You know, I've seen the. 

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Eyes turn black to unknown 
tongues being spoken. 

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These giants would love way up 
in the island, the young Braves.

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The young men would hide up in 
the trees and wait for one of 

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these 12 footers to come walking
down the bath and they would 

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jump on them and kill them, drag
them back to the village, and 

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the village would feast on the 
body freedom. 

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Then people start to get 
weapons, they start to get 

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armor, they start to build 
cities, they start to fortify 

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their cities. 
Now God looks down and there's 

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violence everywhere. 
The battle, this war that we are

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at, is not against each other. 
It's against these 

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principalities and these rulers 
and these archons in the high 

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places. 
It's really worthwhile to read 

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the Bible. 
Yourself. 

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Fear is one of the primary 
drivers of mind control because 

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we have to take every thought 
captive and resist fear. 

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You're going to have a testimony
that is a justice case against 

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the Kingdom of darkness. 
Welcome back to the Millennium 

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Mustard Seed. 
I'm the host, Rod. 

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I got a cool episode in the 
store for you guys. 

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I'm joined by Doctor Max Botner.
We have a fascinating 

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conversation. 
He's a first time guest. 

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We get into his testimony to 
start out and it progresses 

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quickly into some strange 
questions that I have. 

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We cover Christ's authority over
the sea, and then we get into 

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topics like spirits and ghosts 
and what does the Bible have to 

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say about it. 
We get into some root words 

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regarding language being used in
the New and the Old Testament. 

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There's some really fascinating 
connections. 

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Not anything brand new to the 
podcast, but it's just really 

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cool to see a guy who has the 
heart posture like Doctor Max 

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slow down and just thoroughly go
through this stuff with us. 

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Much of this information I've 
learned in personal studies over

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the years, just grabbing the 
word of God and diving in for 

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myself. 
But it's really important to me 

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in humility and to be teachable.
And, you know, the doctorates 

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who went out before us to lay 
these foundations, you know, 

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Doctor Max right now diving into
this, not protecting anybody 

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from the Bible. 
He says, let's see where the 

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Scripture goes. 
And then also, how could I 

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forget about legendary guys like
the late Doctor Michael Heizer 

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and especially the late Doctor 
Chuck Missler? 

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These guys have really helped to
not protect you from your Bible,

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to understand threads and 
language. 

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I found this to be a really fun,
encouraging, strange and 

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exciting episode. 
A part one with Doctor Max 

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Looking forward to his return in
the near future. 

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But for right now I need you 
guys to like, share, subscribe. 

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You can find details on the show
notes. 

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We are in a season of need. 
We do need you guys to help us 

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by praying, by donating, by 
lifting us up. 

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God is calling us. 
Things look uncertain right now 

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as they have looked for quite 
some time. 

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But we are trusting and putting 
1 foot in front of the other. 

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You can find a link to my newest
book. 

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The words are saw in the details
of the show notes as well. 

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I play a song at the end of the 
episode by BHB it is called 

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Where would I be? 
It is dope. 

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You guys will definitely enjoy 
this one. 

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I think it's about time to jump 
into this episode. 

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I'm ready. 
Are you guys ready? 

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Let's go, let's go. 
Everybody, welcome to the 

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Millennial Mustard Seed podcast.
I am Doctor Max Botner, thrilled

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to be on today and to talk a 
little about my faith and just 

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talk about Jesus and Scripture 
and what it means to follow Him.

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Doctor Max, it is an honor to be
here with you, man. 

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I really appreciate you taking 
the time. 

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I can't wait to get into our 
conversation tonight. 

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Yeah. 
Thanks, Rod. 

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It's great to be on with you. 
Yeah, so I stumbled across here 

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on social media and what you 
were preaching on, I forget what

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the clip was, but there was an 
anointing on it. 

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I want you to introduce yourself
for my audience. 

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They're they're probably not 
going to know who you are. 

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Just making that assumption. 
I could be wrong. 

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I think it's a fair assumption. 
Only a fair assumption. 

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Just tell us a little bit about 
yourself share like that, you 

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know 30,000 foot view of your 
testimony. 

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Tell us what exactly it is that 
you do. 

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Yeah, great. 
So yeah, thanks again for having

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me on I so I didn't grow up in a
Christian home. 

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I was born into a secular Jewish
Home in Canada, Montreal, 

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Canada. 
Parents got divorced at a pretty

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early age and that's how they 
landed up back in the States 

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because my mom was AUS citizen. 
And so we just kind of, we moved

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actually from coast to coast, so
Florida, and then this was back 

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in the 90s after Hurricane 
Andrew, we moved across the 

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country to California and ended 
up in the Sacramento area. 

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And I, again, my parents were 
kind of into different sort of 

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spirituality stuff. 
So I, I was exposed to a lot of,

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I guess you could call it kind 
of new age stuff. 

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I don't know if that's still a 
term people are using much 

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today, but that's kind of what 
what they called it back in the 

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90s. 
But my mom had a Christian 

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background. 
So that's sort of my was my 

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first introduction to the church
was just, I think the Lord 

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really got a hold of her heart. 
And I saw a season of just God 

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pouring out his love on her. 
And it changed her in certain 

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ways. 
So that kind of made me curious 

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as a kid because I saw a 
different side of my mom that I 

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hadn't seen before. 
And so eventually I was in a 

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church service. 
Actually, our friends had 

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invited us. 
I was 10 years old. 

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And the only thing I really 
still remember about that night 

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was just God's overwhelming love
just sort of enfolded me. 

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And I knew at that moment, man, 
Jesus is Lord, I want to give my

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life to Jesus. 
So that was sort of the start of

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it for me. 
I had no idea what I was doing, 

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really, what I was getting into.
And yeah, from there, just kind 

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of, it was difficult. 
I was really into sports, really

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into a lot of other stuff. 
So I bounced around a lot. 

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We never really got rooted in 
church. 

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Honestly, man, it wasn't until 
college and having a college 

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pastor that really poured into 
me that I first started becoming

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really interested in my faith 
and scripture. 

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And at that time, I was starting
to see fruit of what God could 

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do in your life if you really 
submitted to him, right? 

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If I said, OK, Jesus actually 
means what he says and he's 

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Lord, His Spirit dwells within 
me. 

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So, you know, what does that 
look like? 

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And I began to make, you know, 
make changes in my life and see 

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God working in my life. 
And that got me super excited 

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about my faith. 
So that put me on the track of 

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I, I transferred into a 
different college 'cause I 

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wanted to take some Bible 
classes. 

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It's actually the college that I
now teach at as a professor, 

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Jessup University in the 
Sacramento area. 

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And from there, I just, I kept 
going on with more school 

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because I was so passionate 
about Scripture and I thought I 

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was either going to be a pastor 
or maybe a professor, but I 

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wasn't really sure. 
So I was kind of trying 

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everything and the Lord sort of 
just confirmed each step along 

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the way that I was. 
I think I'm more of a skill set 

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for kind of a teaching ministry 
within an academic setting, 

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Although I really do enjoy 
preaching in church and, and 

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doing ministerial stuff here and
there. 

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But kind of with the way I'm 
wired, I'm sort of wired for 

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academia. 
I love the kind of heady stuff 

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and that's just something I've 
enjoyed a lot. 

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So right now that's what I do. 
I'm a, I'm a New Testament 

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professor at a college. 
I've taught at a seminary 

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before. 
I've studied and worked in the 

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UK and Germany, various parts of
the country. 

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So yeah, it's, it's been quite 
the journey and I'm still 

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enjoying it. 
There's the, you know, God is, 

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is, is infinite and unending. 
So there's always more to 

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discover. 
And his word is so deep and so 

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multifaceted that you can never 
really exhaust the study of 

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Scripture either. 
So it gives me a lot to enjoy. 

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It gives me a lot to do on a 
daily basis. 

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Yeah. 
Wow, Very well said. 

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Me and Doctor Laura Sanger 
actually talk about quite 

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frequently that the word of God 
is inexhaustible. 

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So I'd love to hear you say 
that. 

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Yeah. 
Now let's kind of jump in into a

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couple questions as as we warm 
up to, you know, some of the 

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information I sent you, I wanted
to talk with you about. 

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You grew up having kind of like 
this understanding of like this 

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fringe or Mystic stuff going on 
around you. 

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Did that help with your faith or
was that like a wrestling match?

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Like, no, these worlds don't 
collide. 

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Could you help us understand 
that? 

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A. 
Little bit, yeah, that's a great

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question. 
I think that in some ways my 

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background has made me a little 
bit more open minded to 

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different things and comfortable
with people having different 

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perspectives than I do. 
Because, you know, Jewish 

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family, very open kind of in 
terms of different beliefs, the 

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whole kind of spirituality stuff
that I was exposed to a lot of 

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different stuff, a lot of stuff 
that none of my friends would 

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have, you know, experienced. 
So it, I think it did make me 

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more open to certain facets, 
maybe even of Christianity. 

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And I think it also helps me 
understand other people better 

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too, and talk to people who 
maybe are coming from different 

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parts of life. 
You know, I, I, I kind of get 

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what it feels like to be in 
church and not be a Christian 

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'cause that was kind of my life 
experience. 

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So I, I, I sometimes find that 
in a weird way, I sometimes 

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connect better with people who 
aren't Christians and who are 

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depending on the context. 
So yeah, I think that's that's a

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little bit what I would say to 
that. 

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It reminds me the late Doctor 
Michael Heiser, he said it was 

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easier to go to a UFO conference
and preach the gospel than it 

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was to actually try to get 
Christians to understand the 

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ancient cultural context of the 
Bible. 

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Yeah, yeah, very much. 
And what? 

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Doctor, it's true. 
Yeah, Doctor Heiser did a great 

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job connecting people, 
Christians who maybe haven't, 

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you know, not for lack of want, 
but just haven't had the 

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exposure to some of what you'd 
get in a academic setting, you 

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know, where you're studying the 
Bible really intensely in its 

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historical context. 
He did such a great job of 

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saying, you know, I'm kind of 
gonna go where the text is gonna

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go and, and, and showing people 
that it can actually make a 

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difference for how you read the 
text too, that it's not just 

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like, you know, just esoteric 
or, you know, kind of arbitrary 

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stuff. 
But actually, hey, this could 

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help you really understand the 
Bible better. 

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Such a great job with that. 
So. 

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Yeah. 
What exactly do you teach? 

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What is your expertise, if you 
will? 

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Let's dive into that real quick.
Sure. 

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Yeah. 
So my dissertation, which is 

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kind of what you write to get 
your PhD, it's it was published 

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as a book. 
Now it's on the Gospel of Mark 

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and Messianism. 
So the ideas of various Jewish 

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messiahs and how Jesus sort of 
fits within that picture. 

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So that, that was really 
fascinating to me because I 

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realized somewhere on in my 
master's degree that basically 

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everything that is said about 
Jesus in the New Testament 

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relates in one way or another to
the Old Testament. 

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So if I want to understand what,
what the authors are saying to 

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us about Jesus, I really need to
track along with the Old 

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Testament. 
There's a, a great New Testament

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scholar by the name of Richard 
Bockham, who says something 

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along the lines of, you know, 
there's nothing communicated 

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about Jesus in the New Testament
that it's, it's all what he 

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calls like Jewish exegesis. 
So in other words, people don't 

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write down like Jesus is God in 
this way. 

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They show you how Jesus is like 
Yahweh, right? 

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It's a different way of doing 
it. 

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But when I realized that, I just
got so hooked and fascinated by 

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the way the New Testament 
authors write about Jesus and 

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that it's all really a kind of 
form of ancient Jewish 

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interpretation of the of the 
Bible, what we call the Old 

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Testament, that really got me 
hooked. 

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And that's remained something 
that I'm really, really 

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interested in. 
I do. 

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So I do stuff in gospels. 
I've done a little bit here and 

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there with, with Paul, but I 
wouldn't say that's my like my, 

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my expertise is been more gospel
so far. 

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Christology, messianism. 
I'm really interested in 

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sacrifice. 
That's something that I've been 

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exploring more recently and 
probably going to write a book 

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on that coming up. 
So yeah, that's a little bit 

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about about me, what I do. 
How many years have you been 

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teaching? 
Let's see. 

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00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:36,280
Yeah, great question. 
So I am in, is it my 7th year? 

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I think I'm going into my 7th 
year full time teaching. 

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I did some adjunct work before 
that, but I was at at a 

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seminary, teaching at a seminary
in Michigan. 

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So it's like a school for 
pastors. 

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People were training to be 
pastors, taught Greek, Greek 

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00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,360
exegesis courses there. 
And then I moved back to 

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California two years ago and 
I've been teaching 

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undergraduates now. 
So I teach Bible, a lot of Bible

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interpretation classes, giving 
people the tools to read 

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scripture well and then some, 
some other kind of upper 

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division classes on different 
books within the Bible. 

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So I'm in a, it's a Christian 
university, so all, all the 

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00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,200
students get a Bible minor. 
So I I work with a lot of 

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students that are non Bible 
majors now. 

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The reason I asked you to come 
on here is I wanted to talk 

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about Christ's authority over 
the darkness, right over the 

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fiery arrows that get shot by 
day, over the demoniac. 

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And you know, we're living in a 
day and age where fear is a 

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tactic. 
A lot of people are engulfed in 

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fear. 
We see a lot of panic decision 

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making. 
And the Bible tells us do not be

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afraid. 
Do not fear. 

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We go through this whole thing. 
You know, I had Doctor Mike 

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Davis on recently. 
We do the emotional 

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intelligence, you know, we're 
talking about in the Old 

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Testament where God is giving us
this remedy. 

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00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,280
Do not let my law leave your 
mouth and I and you know, and 

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he's saying to Joshua, I will be
with you like I was with Moses. 

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So we we have been going through
the word and finding these 

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connections where it's like this
is for us. 

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This is for this generation to 
just to reiterate that Christ is

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who he says he is. 
But what I want you to hone in 

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on and warm up as you see fit, 
Doctor Max. 

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00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,400
But I want to talk about 
Christ's authority and 

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specifically he's rebuking a 
storm. 

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00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,240
He he calms the storm, He's 
walking on the water and 

290
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,320
wherever you'd like to go from 
there. 

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00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,480
I trust the flow of the Ruach, 
so take it from there. 

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00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,280
Sounds good. 
Yes, we'll let it go Yeah. 

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00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,840
And do feel free to jump in too 
to make sure that we're hitting 

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what you like. 
But I love what you said there 

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00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,960
and I I guess I would just start
by saying I think it's so 

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critical that we don't live in a
fear based way. 

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00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,720
And I mean, more than just 
personal anxieties about 

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00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,880
uncertainties, which I think is 
a big deal. 

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00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,760
I mean, we're facing very 
uncertain time. 

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00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:01,680
There's a lot of upheaval 
currently going on, disruptions 

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00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,720
in various industries, which 
creates more of that just got 

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00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,079
out of a global pandemic. 
So I mean, there's a lot of 

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things that obviously have put 
that on our horizons. 

304
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,480
And in some ways the modern 
world has kind of inculcated us 

305
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from that sense of death being 
ever present. 

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00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,920
And so when we get that, that 
taste of death being present, 

307
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,440
something that the ancients knew
well, much more intimately than 

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00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,360
we do in many ways, that can 
lead to kind of fear. 

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00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,480
I think that one of the big 
challenges for us with fear is 

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00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,480
that it can lead to self 
preservation. 

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00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,640
When I'm afraid, I, I, I look 
out for myself, you know, like I

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00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,560
got to get my bag, I got to take
care of myself, make sure my 

313
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,760
retirement account is set, make 
sure I have, you know, what I 

314
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,240
need to survive. 
And what's that mentality is 

315
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,560
basically antithetical to the 
life Jesus calls his disciples 

316
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,560
into, right? 
So we can't, you, you can't 

317
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,400
follow Jesus with a fear based 
mentality, right 'cause if 

318
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,880
you're, you're making 
calculations in that way geared 

319
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,160
towards self preservation, it's 
basically antithetical to the 

320
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,000
way of the cross, right? 
So I think it's, it's important 

321
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,200
that we, that we discuss, you 
know, fear. 

322
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,720
And, and then the other thing 
I'll say before we get into the 

323
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,400
storm thing, 'cause you brought 
up the you, you referenced the 

324
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,200
spiritual warfare text in 
Ephesians 6. 

325
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,880
And Ephesians is a book that 
I've actually been teaching 

326
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,320
quite a bit on. 
I've done some publications on 

327
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,800
it. 
It's a, it's probably, if not my

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00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,200
favorite, one of my favorite 
letters of Paul because I think 

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00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,160
it just, it has such a beautiful
holistic picture of the gospel. 

330
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,840
And one of the things that I 
that hit me with Ephesians as I 

331
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,800
was reading it through over and 
over as a whole letter. 

332
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,480
I think it's not accidental that
that spiritual warfare section 

333
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,840
comes at the end of the letter 
because I actually think the 

334
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,840
whole letter in a way is about 
spiritual warfare. 

335
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,960
Paul begins actually by this 
statement that Jesus has been 

336
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,960
raised up in the in the heavens 
and he's seated above the powers

337
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,000
of rulers and principalities. 
We can get into those if you 

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00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,160
like, these entities, these dark
entities. 

339
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,200
In some cases, you know, some of
them are hostile. 

340
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,800
So you have Christ in kind of 
like the victory seat to begin 

341
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,720
the letter. 
And then the letter is about God

342
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:31,280
creating this unity in one new 
humanity of all these broken 

343
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,440
people who were formerly divided
now being brought together in 

344
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,200
Christ. 
And that, he says, is a like, 

345
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,160
it's like a sign or a monument 
to the rulers, these 

346
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,560
principalities that Jesus has 
won the victory. 

347
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,200
So it's it's interesting to me 
when I think about spiritual 

348
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,760
warfare now, one of the things 
that I always emphasize first is

349
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,760
that it's actually a daily thing
that we face as Christians and 

350
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,840
the primary terrain on which we 
fight. 

351
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,680
Spiritual warfare is just the 
daily battle of the mundane love

352
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,560
loving one another well in 
Christ. 

353
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,960
That's the that's the main like 
kind of thing we, we, we do 

354
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,760
because the the enemy wants to 
tear us apart, wants to tear us 

355
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,800
down. 
And the sign of Christ's victory

356
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,080
is a flourishing people who are 
united in his name. 

357
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,760
So doing things that we don't 
often think of in terms of 

358
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,080
spiritual warfare, loving my 
neighbor as myself, watching the

359
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,720
way I speak daily, seeking to 
edify others and use my gifts. 

360
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,200
Those are actually all part of 
what I think is what Paul sees 

361
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,640
as the daily kind of spiritual 
warfare battle. 

362
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,560
And then in that, in the 
spiritual warfare text in 

363
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,440
Ephesians 6, those are all 
plural commands. 

364
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,080
So it's you stand kind of 
together as one. 

365
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:58,360
It's the picture of the body 
collective as an as the as the 

366
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,120
the Roman soldier, or I mean, 
he's using imagery from Roman 

367
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,920
infantry, but also from Isaiah. 
These are texts from Isaiah that

368
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,000
he's drawing on. 
And it's like the body standing 

369
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,200
collectively together in this 
defensive posture. 

370
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,240
So spiritual warfare is also 
something we have to do 

371
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,320
together. 
And I think one of the things 

372
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,120
that is challenging in our 
modern world is we're so we're 

373
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:26,000
so divided, we're so isolated 
that we often lose when we're 

374
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,880
individually fighting our 
battles and we don't have other 

375
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,200
people around us. 
So that's something I just 

376
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,800
wanted to emphasize because it's
not always something that gets 

377
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:40,560
highlighted, you know, with with
these conversations in terms of 

378
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,280
Jesus exercising his authority 
over the the sea. 

379
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,320
That's a really pregnant text 
that we have in the Gospel 

380
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,040
tradition. 
There's there's a couple 

381
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,200
different texts where where 
Jesus exercises his authority 

382
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,920
over the sea. 
But we just look for example at 

383
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,040
the one in, in Mark chapter 4, 
right? 

384
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,080
It's like 431 through 35 or 
something like that. 

385
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:11,440
In that, that text, you have the
sea coming up against the boat, 

386
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,560
crashing up against the boat. 
It's narrated in such a way as 

387
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,080
to remind them that, you know, 
the sea is this kind of cosmic 

388
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:24,680
force that is the thing that God
needs to sort of still to make 

389
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,120
life and flourishing possible 
for people. 

390
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,000
And that's the thing that's sort
of crashing down on them while 

391
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,040
they're in the boat. 
And then there's this crisis 

392
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,960
moment where they realize Jesus 
is sleeping. 

393
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,920
And so it's like, you know, 
we've all had those experiences 

394
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,760
in life, if we're being honest, 
I think where we maybe know 

395
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,000
intellectually that God, Jesus 
is all powerful, but we're like,

396
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,720
where is it right now? 
Like, I don't see it right now. 

397
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,360
I am in desperate need. 
Like sort of like the psalmists,

398
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,400
right? 
Like, where are you, right, 

399
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,240
Where are you? 
And so we have that kind of 

400
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,160
moment very similar to the 
Psalms, where the disciples cry 

401
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,880
out to Jesus. 
Don't you care about us? 

402
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,240
And then he emerges and the text
says he actually rebukes the 

403
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,440
wind and the waves. 
That's the same verb that's used

404
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,840
for, you know, rebuking an evil 
spirit. 

405
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,880
So he silences this hostile 
force and everything is still. 

406
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,440
And then he turns to his 
disciples, which is in some ways

407
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,880
he's also turning to us when 
we're hearing this text. 

408
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,320
And it's like, you know, where's
your, you know, where's your 

409
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,880
faith kind of thing, or little 
faith. 

410
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,760
And so it's kind of there's this
challenge right to us as 

411
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,400
disciples as well. 
But it's, it's a powerful text, 

412
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,000
you know, and it's, it's in its 
original context. 

413
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,520
This is speaking to Christians 
who are facing harsh 

414
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,360
persecution, right? 
And they're thinking like, OK, 

415
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:55,600
you know, the empire is bearing 
down on us, you know, is, is how

416
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,360
we believe Jesus is still in the
throne. 

417
00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:59,680
But like, where is he is he is 
the Son of man returning on the 

418
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,160
clouds. 
What's going to happen kind of 

419
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,400
thing. 
Those are the questions that 

420
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,320
they're wrestling with. 
So you can imagine how Mark 

421
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,880
would be preached in a 1st 
century house church, you know, 

422
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,360
but it still reigns true for us 
today because we still have 

423
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,560
that, you know, those feelings 
of like the Lord of the 

424
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,360
universe. 
Where are you right now? 

425
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,480
Are you, are you still in 
control? 

426
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,720
I want to believe, help my 
unbelief, you know, all that 

427
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,440
kind of stuff. 
And, and the text just 

428
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,360
powerfully demonstrates to us 
that, yeah, Jesus is Lord over, 

429
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,960
over the chaos. 
He has the power to, you know, 

430
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,520
to, to put that, put that down 
right. 

431
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
And yeah, there's, there's other
things we could get into, but 

432
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,400
there's, there's really 
interesting, for example, 

433
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,640
allusions to some of the Psalm 
texts and to Jonah where, you 

434
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,400
know, you have people in the sea
and it's the sea is whipped up 

435
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,080
and people are crying out to 
God. 

436
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,080
So it very powerfully 
demonstrates that Jesus is like 

437
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,160
the embodiment of the God of 
Israel there with the people on 

438
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,640
the boat. 
Like that's the power that he's 

439
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,680
articulating. 
It's, it's the God of Israel's 

440
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,520
power over the over the sea. 
I think that's kind of the the 

441
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,800
gist of what's going. 
On very well said. 

442
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,280
The couple of the highlights 
there, like when you were 

443
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,960
setting up before going into 
depicting, you know, the sea 

444
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,200
crashing up against the boat, 
for example, you had talked 

445
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,880
about the spiritual warfare 
perspective and how we are to 

446
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:26,040
be, you know, everything's multi
layered in my opinion. 

447
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,840
Like the way that I see things, 
it's not so simple. 

448
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,440
So when spiritual warfare is 
being taught to us, the reality 

449
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,200
of the spiritual battle that all
of us are involved in, whether 

450
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,880
we like to admit it or not, and 
the body being Christ's main 

451
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,120
goal is for the body. 
It's not denominational 

452
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,320
preference. 
It's not my building, your 

453
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,600
building, East Coast, West 
Coast. 

454
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,760
No, it's not. 
Jesus is looking at every member

455
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,960
of the body on this rock that we
call home. 

456
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,280
And so when we start to have 
that unified way of thinking 

457
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,760
like the book of Acts, they said
one likeness, one mind, one 

458
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,200
spirit and that they were 
working in such a way that there

459
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,040
was an abundance. 
They were meeting each other's 

460
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,840
needs. 
I think that that is just I 

461
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,920
wanted to re highlight that 
again, just to plant another 

462
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,640
seed in the listener's ear of 
how important that was. 

463
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,320
And really you just got me 
excited and set up the rest of 

464
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:22,240
this, you know, idea that God is
sometimes what appears to be 

465
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,200
sleeping. 
And not to prescribe this text 

466
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,880
to somebody's situation, but the
Bible's there for our teaching, 

467
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,840
for our reproof, our correction,
right? 

468
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,720
And and so this is 
encouragement, but sometimes it 

469
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,840
can appear like God. 
Are you sleeping on the boat? 

470
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,160
And the the waves are crashing 
all around me. 

471
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:46,120
And it's beautiful to know that 
the refiners fire the testing. 

472
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,280
I believe everything is a test. 
Everything is a test. 

473
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,160
My listeners know that I 
hammered this idea home from the

474
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,640
simplicity of the guy next door.
It's a test. 

475
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,280
Be careful, right walk the tight
narrow and with what we had laid

476
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,040
down in the beginning of this 
episode, mentioning this day of 

477
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,680
chaos that seems to be happening
around us and some people do 

478
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,680
feel like God, I've been crying 
out to you. 

479
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,720
Where are you? 
You know, I, I don't didn't 

480
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
really plan to mention this, but
just for the sake of the 

481
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,840
relevancy of it, because this is
something I believe we have to 

482
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,000
pay attention to Kanye West, one
of the biggest quote UN quote, 

483
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,920
Christian converts of our day 
and age, you know, and now he's 

484
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,080
publicly coming out, people were
celebrating, Oh, he's a 

485
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,520
Christian. 
Listen to his album. 

486
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,280
And in my spirit, I've been on 
record the whole time going 

487
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,800
something's off. 
I don't I don't know about this.

488
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,200
Something's off, right? 
So I would just watch. 

489
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,720
And now he's saying some really 
blast blasphemous things in the 

490
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,440
sense of I'm not going to re 
quote him, but for most people 

491
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,160
that are aware of what's going 
on out there, he's saying, I 

492
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,400
pray to God. 
God didn't answer me. 

493
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,480
So now I'm God. 
He's making crazy statements. 

494
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,960
And it's like the condition of 
Christianity. 

495
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,840
How many, you know, how many 
millions and millions of people 

496
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,800
are going to hear what Kanye 
said versus thousands of people 

497
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,360
that are going to hear what me 
and you say. 

498
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,840
I think it's imperative that we 
actually take the position to be

499
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,240
accurate to what the Bible has 
to teach us, just as you did 

500
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,360
with the boat scenario. 
So let's dive into just more of 

501
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,240
the authority on Christ and I 
want you to keep building on man

502
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,120
you. 
We're really getting some 

503
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,600
momentum. 
I was enjoying hearing you 

504
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,400
speak, you know, just about the 
authority that Christ has and, 

505
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,880
and, and how the Bible's 
connecting in other places about

506
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,240
these entities. 
The principalities, powers rule 

507
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,720
as dominions. 
Take it from there, brother. 

508
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,400
Yeah, yeah, for sure. 
Yeah. 

509
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,680
And, you know, just the one 
thing on, on, on Kanye too, or 

510
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,680
maybe two things. 
You know, it's I, I haven't 

511
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,000
really paid. 
I, I'm fairly not entirely 

512
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,120
illiterate 'cause I mean, I have
kids, but when it comes to pop 

513
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,760
culture, I'm fairly like removed
these days, right? 

514
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,600
But I follow a little bit here 
and there. 

515
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,040
And my, my sense with him too, 
is I, I think, you know, when 

516
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,560
people are in the limelight and 
also struggling with mental 

517
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,040
health issues, that can be a 
really complicated, you know, 

518
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,080
scenario. 
And I'll just kind of leave it 

519
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,640
at that. 
But I, I sense that there's, 

520
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,120
there may be some of that going 
on. 

521
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,080
And, and, and then the other 
thing I would just say too, and 

522
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,040
you know, I think you'd probably
agree with this is part of the 

523
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,800
issue of our day and age is 
we're in the age of this, you 

524
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:23,680
know, the celebrity and the, 
it's we, we just idolize our 

525
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,840
celebrities, you know, it's 
called. 

526
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,920
And that definitely seeps into 
the church as well, you know, 

527
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,440
and, you know, and so there's 
just, it's just always good for 

528
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,840
us to be mindful of what content
we're taking in, who we're 

529
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,480
allowing to influence us. 
Just because somebody has a big 

530
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,680
platform or sounds really great 
doesn't necessarily mean that 

531
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,040
they're a great, you know, a 
great influence or a great 

532
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,360
teacher. 
We just have to be wise and 

533
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,600
discerning, you know? 
And Jesus says that in Matthew 

534
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,240
7, you'll know them by their 
fruit. 

535
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,200
So, and that, that's part of why
we have to be connected to each 

536
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,360
other 'cause it's really hard to
know the fruit of a person if 

537
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,440
you're not living with them 
daily or, or around them. 

538
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,840
You can, you can kind of miss 
that, but we, we have to do our 

539
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,200
best to be discerning. 
And yeah, so back to the, the 

540
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,920
powers, right? 
So there's AI think there's a 

541
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,280
couple things going on, but 
Paul, Paul talks about, you 

542
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,160
know, rulers and authorities and
powers and what he has in mind 

543
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:23,280
here are kind of cosmic, larger 
cosmic entities. 

544
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,520
He doesn't define them in 
detail. 

545
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,040
Like we sometimes think of like 
different archangels maybe 

546
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,960
having names or things like 
that. 

547
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,640
But there are some kind of 
perhaps like angelic beings or 

548
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,360
maybe vaguer terms you might 
want to use. 

549
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,800
But he has this sense of these 
larger cosmic entities that are 

550
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,600
some of which are hostile 
against human beings that are 

551
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,800
desiring to basically to sow 
division among human beings, to 

552
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,920
oversee corrupt dealings. 
Even at like larger levels. 

553
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,160
You get this in, you know, this 
might may ring a bell depending 

554
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,280
on how much you listen to like 
Michael Heizer you you get this 

555
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,600
in Jewish apocalyptic with 
different angelic beings 

556
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,720
overseeing nations in some 
texts. 

557
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,360
So there's an idea of like, I 
think what it all comes down to 

558
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:26,240
because on some level it's it's 
hard, or at least I feel like 

559
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,760
it's hard to fully define 
exactly what's going on 

560
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,040
metaphysically, right? 
And all these kind of areas, I 

561
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,160
know people have visions and 
things like that and I'm totally

562
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,480
open to that. 
But if we're just working kind 

563
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,160
of from text, there's a lot of 
different kind of traditions and

564
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,120
things like this going on. 
But I, I think at a broad level,

565
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,960
it is, it's a way of saying, 
yes, there is, there's something

566
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,960
going on in the world that's 
more than just bad people doing 

567
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,400
bad things. 
Like there's, there's kind of 

568
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,120
cosmic structural issues. 
There's that are also so it's 

569
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,800
like human beings are 
responsible, they make bad 

570
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,080
decisions, but we're also being 
impacted and influenced in 

571
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,320
certain ways from other, you 
know, other entities, even at a,

572
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,480
you know, larger population 
levels, right. 

573
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,720
That's kind of the idea and I 
think Paul has that idea. 

574
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,400
You know, he brings that idea in
and and that's a that was a 

575
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,760
major issue of what's wrong with
the world. 

576
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,960
So when he's going to talk about
what Christ has done to put it 

577
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,560
right, his ultimate victory 
right over all these hostile 

578
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,400
powers, the last of which is 
Donatas death, You know, he's 

579
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,280
going to talk about Christ being
enthroned over these entities 

580
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,920
and that the church, it's not so
much that the church like get 

581
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,480
some special insight into what 
each one is like as the church 

582
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,560
stands against these by living 
the Jesus way, right. 

583
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,720
So the Jesus way is the of love,
self giving love. 

584
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,360
That's the way that God has 
designed us to function as human

585
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,120
beings, because that's who God 
is in God's self. 

586
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,680
And by doing that, we very, very
clearly actually end up 

587
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,280
resisting the, these hostile 
entities and their, the 

588
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:13,760
ideologies that they've sown in 
the world of selfishness, pride,

589
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,280
arrogance, violence, you know, 
these kind of things that tear 

590
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,640
human beings and communities 
apart, that the church is 

591
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:27,760
supposed to be this alternative 
community, the body of Christ 

592
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,840
that is different. 
So that that's kind of one 

593
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,880
thing, you know, that that 
that's going on. 

594
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,400
And then you also have in the 
texts, you know what we probably

595
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,960
think more so of when people 
think of spiritual warfare, 

596
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,240
which are encounters with with 
like wicked spirits. 

597
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,280
The New Testament refers to them
often as unclean spirits, which 

598
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,640
sounds kind of weird to us, but 
it's kind of an extension of the

599
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,040
idea of ritual purity from the 
Old Testament that you can be in

600
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,720
like, a clean or an unclean 
state. 

601
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,360
Right. 
But this is an idea. 

602
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,480
Yeah. 
This is an idea though of kind 

603
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,840
of extended from that, that they
had a sense also that sin, they 

604
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,920
described sin as in some cases 
defiling the person or 

605
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,120
corrupting the person. 
And this is kind of moves beyond

606
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,360
that to think of certain spirits
that can enter to the person and

607
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,560
defile the person. 
So that's why the New Testament 

608
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,040
frequently talks about unclean 
spirit, sorry, what we would 

609
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,480
call demons as unclean spirits. 
It uses both terms. 

610
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:40,920
It uses, you know, daimonion 
demon, but often it uses unclean

611
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,840
spirits. 
Yeah, to to describe. 

612
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,639
So Jesus is walking on the 
water, the disciples are on the 

613
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:48,199
boat. 
He calls Peter out to him. 

614
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,159
In some translations, we see the
language being used where he's 

615
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,679
like, I'm not a ghost, right? 
You know what I mean? 

616
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,480
He's like, it's, it's me. 
And I think that this is 

617
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,000
fascinating. 
But, you know, that's in the 

618
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,640
English though. 
So I'm glad that you're here to 

619
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,440
help with this concept. 
Do we see a correlation between,

620
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,160
you know, spirit and and unclean
spirit or ghost is there 

621
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:11,360
because. 
Yeah. 

622
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,640
What are we really doing with 
that through like the poetry of 

623
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,600
the ancient Israel mindset, 
Hebrew mindset, 'cause it's just

624
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,000
a whole different conversation, 
but. 

625
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,840
Yeah, let me check. 
I think I, I, I can pull that up

626
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,400
real quick. 
I'm I'm pretty sure it's 

627
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,200
Phantasma is the Greek. 
Term Phantasma. 

628
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:34,200
Interesting. 
And so, yeah. 

629
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,240
And and so in this, in this 
context, yeah, you're right. 

630
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,080
So in this context, what it is 
is they are they, they actually 

631
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,440
see Jesus walking past them. 
And that, interestingly enough, 

632
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,040
is actually an illusion. 
He wanted to pass by them. 

633
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:55,040
That's probably an allusion to 
Job nine 10911 in the Septuagint

634
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,040
where God says I passed by you 
on the sea. 

635
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,200
It's playing with this idea of 
like the disciples, like Jesus 

636
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,680
being God with them, but they're
not really recognizing it, 

637
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,240
right, Like it does. 
It's kind of playing with that 

638
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:11,280
idea a little bit. 
Yeah, But yes, you're right. 

639
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,520
So they, what it reports here is
they're saying to themselves 

640
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,960
it's a ghost. 
So they're making this judgement

641
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,360
about Jesus. 
And that term there has more to 

642
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,760
do with like kind of an 
apparition, an apparition of a, 

643
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,760
of a deity, or it could be a, 
you know, some kind of divine 

644
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,160
being, right? 
You have to recognize in the 

645
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,040
ancient world, it's populated 
with God. 

646
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,760
So to call like there are 
various, but the apparition of 

647
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,520
some kind of God or divine being
or whatever, that's more what's 

648
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,880
being used there. 
That's not a term that's used of

649
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,760
the the spirits in other texts. 
So it's like a different. 

650
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,480
Yeah, 'cause I know. 
I think it's Second Samuel. 

651
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,000
Hopefully I didn't butcher this,
but drawing from memory, I'm not

652
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,760
easy with chapter and verse. 
I usually just get enough of the

653
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,240
meat to know when something 
rises up in me, like, is this 

654
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:01,880
important? 
Right. 

655
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,480
Ask a question. 
Well, Samuel, you know, the 

656
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,360
witch of Endor, we have this 
scenario. 

657
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:07,920
Saul is there. 
And. 

658
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,200
The witch calls up Samuel and 
she's using this language, at 

659
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,840
least the way it conveys in the 
English is one like a son of God

660
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,080
or I don't know if that is 
referencing Benihana Elohim or 

661
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,760
what really is going on there 
the Hebrew, but that he's coming

662
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:31,080
up he's he's illuminated right. 
And so what's the language being

663
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,680
used in that verse? 
Is there a correlation with what

664
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,320
we're seeing in the New 
Testament with same concepts 

665
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,400
spirit? 
You know, just to strange 

666
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,560
question I have. 
No, that's interesting. 

667
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for 
sure. 

668
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,880
What's the exact? 
Is it give you the exact 

669
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,920
reference real quick And Samuel?
Yeah, OK. 

670
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,080
First, First Samuel 28 seven is 
where Saul is asking for the 

671
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,360
serve. 
And find me a woman who is a 

672
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,240
medium that I may go inquire of 
her. 28 eight. 

673
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,680
So Saul disguises himself 
because he bans all of the 

674
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,560
witches in the land, right, the 
necromancy. 

675
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,000
So he's like having trouble 
finding one now. 

676
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,000
And you know, he has to disguise
himself. 

677
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,320
So First Samuel 28 nine, the 
woman says, look, you know what 

678
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:13,960
Saul has done? 
He has cut off the mediums of 

679
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,960
the land. 
Then the woman said, whom shall 

680
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,760
I bring up for you? 
Verse 11? 

681
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,800
And he said, bring up Samuel for
me. 

682
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,960
When the woman saw Samuel, she 
cried out with a loud voice. 

683
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,400
And the woman spoke to Saul, 
saying, why have you deceived me

684
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,200
for? 
So we're at 13. 

685
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,960
First Samuel 2813 is right where
we're getting into this. 

686
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,440
Oh yeah, I saw. 
A spirit ascending out of the 

687
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560
earth. 
Yes, yes, yes, yes. 

688
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,400
I see. 
That's New King James, not my 

689
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,240
favorite version to read from, 
but but that's the language 

690
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:46,400
we're getting in the English 
there. 

691
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,920
Any correlations? 
Anything of interest do you 

692
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,760
think? 
Yeah, I don't know, like there's

693
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,000
their language here is used of a
God, right? 

694
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,320
An Elohim. 
Elohim. 

695
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,960
Yeah, yeah. 
And, and then yeah, so, yeah, 

696
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,560
yeah. 
So it's I saw, literally I saw 

697
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,800
gods ascending. 
Yes, not well. 

698
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,720
That's using other translations.
Elohim I the I am being plural 

699
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:18,320
right? 
Chera beam Seraphim being. 

700
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Correct. 
Yeah. 

701
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,520
And it's, and it's understood 
here as a plural. 

702
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,520
So with with Elohim in the Old 
Testament, right, The you always

703
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,880
it can Elohim can refer to God, 
the God of Israel and as well as

704
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,400
other divine beings. 
It's a plural noun, right? 

705
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,880
So you always have to look at 
context, but I'm looking at the 

706
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,320
Greek Septuagint, and it renders
it as theus, which would be God,

707
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,480
God's plural. 
So yeah, it it, it understands 

708
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,760
it the same way, which makes 
sense. 

709
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,040
I mean, contextually, you're not
seeing Yahweh rising out of the 

710
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,840
earth here. 
You're seeing the other, you 

711
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,040
know, these other underworlds, 
underworld spirits or gods or 

712
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:53,640
whatever. 
Yeah. 

713
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,760
Very interesting to think about.
I love. 

714
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:00,360
Yeah, but you're right. 
I I mean the connection here 

715
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,160
would be. 
Would be similar in that the 

716
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,200
kind of manifestation of seeing 
a divine being, a God like that.

717
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,560
That's the kind of thing the 
disciples are connecting on the 

718
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,160
boat. 
Right. 

719
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,520
And we're getting a different 
root understanding for an 

720
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,680
unclean spirit. 
We're not we don't have a 

721
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,720
correlation in the same way 
spirits being recognized in 

722
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,160
these two places where we can 
kind of see a universal 

723
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,720
agreement where it bolts 
together. 

724
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:29,760
We're looking at Elohim or gods 
or a spirit comes up in Samuel's

725
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,320
case with the witch of Endor. 
And also I loved, you know, 

726
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,960
that's the first time I've ever 
heard that put together where 

727
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,680
when you were saying Jesus was 
almost trying to pass by them 

728
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,520
and correlating that to Job. 
Man, that made me jump. 

729
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,120
I got. 
Oh yeah. 

730
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,280
It's a cool little. 
It's a cool little connection 

731
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:44,920
there. 
Yeah. 

732
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,240
That's one of those little love 
it. 

733
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:47,680
Yeah. 
You find love it? 

734
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,640
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah. 

735
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,040
I was just gonna affirm what 
you're saying. 

736
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:56,000
The the, I think you won't find 
the idea of unclean spirits in 

737
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,080
the Old Testament, except for 
maybe there's one text in 

738
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,520
Zechariah that uses it, I think 
kind of metaphorically. 

739
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,880
But the term starts to show up 
in the in the late 2nd temple 

740
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,920
period. 
So the couple 100 years before 

741
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,920
Jesus, you see this term used 
also in the Dead Sea Scrolls and

742
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,960
some other texts. 
So it's it's a little bit later 

743
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,640
developing than some of our 
other Old Testament texts. 

744
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:22,400
Interesting. 
Yeah. 

745
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:28,040
Jesus being seen, you know, the 
I am being seen in the Old 

746
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,560
Testament and he can be 
presented from the Old 

747
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,160
Testament. 
Is that something that you have 

748
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,040
spent some time on and feel 
passionate about? 

749
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,000
Yeah. 
Can you run that thing home? 

750
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,080
What do you want to do with 
that? 

751
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,440
Yeah, man, sure. 
Well, I mean, there's so many 

752
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,400
different places you could you 
could go with this, right? 

753
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,920
And some of them are like more 
explicit sort of in your face 

754
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,200
than others. 
So I mean, an obvious example 

755
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,240
would be Gospel of John where, 
you know, they're arguing with 

756
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,680
him about, you know, Abraham. 
And then he says, well before 

757
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,560
Abraham was Egoemi, I am now 
that that Greek phrase ego and 

758
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,720
me can mean many things. 
It's used all over the New 

759
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:12,480
Testament to mean different 
things. 

760
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,600
But in that context, it's very 
obvious what he's saying. 

761
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,880
He's referring to what the Lord 
said to Moses when he revealed 

762
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,120
himself in the Bush. 
I am who I am, or I will be who 

763
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,040
I will be. 
The Hebrew can be translated 

764
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,960
either way, but he's taking 
basically a piece of that that 

765
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,040
revelation. 
So it's like the God's, God's 

766
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,320
name or as it were, or kind of 
his name. 

767
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,720
He sort of obfuscates giving 
Moses the name because he's not 

768
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:43,560
like other deities that you can 
control when you have the name, 

769
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:44,280
right? 
So it's kind. 

770
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:46,400
Of older you can control these 
in the book. 

771
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,920
Yeah. 
And that's, that's right. 

772
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,800
Yeah. 
So I mean, it's, it's all over 

773
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,720
the place, right. 
I mean, that's why, that's why 

774
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,520
the the the Spirit or Legion, 
this legion asks Jesus, you 

775
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,920
know, or tries to identify him. 
I know who you are, Jesus, 

776
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,240
you're the southernmost high. 
Like he's trying to use Jesus 

777
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:06,080
name. 
And then Jesus says, what's your

778
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,440
name to back to right. 
So, yeah, there's a lot of power

779
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,080
in knowing the name. 
Yeah, you get it everywhere. 

780
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,240
I mean, in the Odyssey, for 
example, when Odysseus has 

781
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:18,240
escaped the Cyclops and is 
leaving the leaving the island 

782
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,560
on the boat, he makes this 
mistake of hubris and looks back

783
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,800
at the cyclops and shouts out, 
you know, now like you, I know 

784
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,680
that you've been bested by 
Odysseus. 

785
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,080
And then the Cyclops is like, 
oh, now I know who you are. 

786
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,680
Boom. 
And nails it, right. 

787
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,720
So it's it's everywhere. 
The name gives you power. 

788
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,240
So yeah, I mean, back to the 
whole thing. 

789
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:41,880
Yahweh is not going to be 
manipulated in that way. 

790
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,160
So he's I am who I am. 
I will be who I will be, but 

791
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,520
that that's what Jesus is 
picking up on when he what he 

792
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,920
says, you know, before Abraham 
was I am that that's just a a 

793
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,800
really obvious, you know, claim.
And and then, of course, you 

794
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,920
know, you go all the way back to
the beginning of John's Gospel. 

795
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,320
In the beginning was the word 
and the word was with God. 

796
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,240
The word was God, right. 
So John is showing us here that 

797
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Jesus is what's what's being 
used here is God or this word, 

798
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,320
the Greek word theos is being 
predicated to Jesus because he's

799
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,080
distinguishing son and Father as
different persons. 

800
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,200
But they're both properly Theos.
They're both God, right? 

801
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,480
And and to use our, our 
Trinitarian language, but I 

802
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,840
mean, this is a call back to the
beginning of Genesis. 

803
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,360
Jesus, the word was the one 
through whom you know, the 

804
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,040
Father creates. 
And then in verse 14, he has the

805
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,600
word has taken on flesh, dwelt 
among us. 

806
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,000
That dwelling language is the 
term Skanao, which is to 

807
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,200
Tabernacle. 
We've seen his glory. 

808
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:55,120
So what what what John is saying
to us here is that the 

809
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,640
incarnation is the Tabernacle of
God coming down to be with us, 

810
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,360
right? 
So when you're encountering 

811
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,720
Jesus, in other words, you're 
encountering the temple. 

812
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:06,360
Well, that that's the divine 
presence. 

813
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,640
That's where God is encountered,
right? 

814
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:15,600
So that's a really strong claim 
of, you know, Jesus as God in 

815
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,200
the flesh, God with, with 
people. 

816
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,840
So. 
Quick question though, when I 

817
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,760
think it's in Jude when the 
author is saying the angels that

818
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,000
disrobed of their former estate.
Oh, you want to get into that? 

819
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,680
Yeah. 
Would love to. 

820
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,240
They're these angels are in 
chains of bondage under the 

821
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:34,520
earth. 
I think the Greek word was 

822
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,720
ocarion and and that's 
referencing the flesh or the 

823
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:39,960
vessel. 
Am I remembering that correctly 

824
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:40,600
by chance? 
But. 

825
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,080
I don't know. 
Let me I can look it up real 

826
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:42,720
quick. 
Yeah, I'm. 

827
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,520
Pretty sure. 
Starts in like June. 

828
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,360
Yeah, Jude 1-6 maybe. 
I don't know, I'm really bad 

829
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,080
with chapter. 
You got it right. 

830
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,560
It's Jude Six. 
OK. 

831
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,760
And the good news with Jude, 
it's so short, there's no 

832
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,160
chapters. 
So it's just yeah. 

833
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,040
So they're these angels are 
guarded. 

834
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:02,080
They didn't. 
Yeah, right. 

835
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,200
They failed to guard their, you 
know, position of authority. 

836
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,680
They abandoned it. 
Yeah, correct. 

837
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,760
It is correct. 
Oikiterion. 

838
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,200
So they're dwelling place. 
Yeah. 

839
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:17,720
This is an allusion to what some
would call the Watcher tradition

840
00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:19,720
based on the Book of First 
Enoch. 

841
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,240
It's a tradition that's very 
popular and widespread in late 

842
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,840
Second Temple Judaism as a, you 
know, kind of an explanation of 

843
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,800
what's gone on wrong in the 
world and in the Watcher 

844
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,400
tradition. 
And you see this kind of hinted 

845
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,880
at actually in Genesis 6 before 
the flood account where the, the

846
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,120
bin Elohim come down, the sons 
of God. 

847
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:48,400
It's the same tradition. 
The, the cause of evil and 

848
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,640
violence in the world is from 
this fall, if you like. 

849
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,240
It's, you know, we often think 
of Genesis 3 as the fall or 

850
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:01,000
whatever, but literally these 
fallen, these these creatures, 

851
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,080
the the Nephilim comes from the 
Hebrew root to fall. 

852
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,680
So they're literally the fallen 
ones, right? 

853
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,760
Yeah, yeah. 
And so, yeah. 

854
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,560
And even the, in the, in the, in
the watcher tradition, the 

855
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,560
explanation for the origin of 
like evil spirits also comes 

856
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,760
from the offspring of these 
angelic beings with, with women.

857
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,800
So Jude is just sort of like 
swimming in this water. 

858
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,320
Jude knows this tradition and is
referencing this tradition not 

859
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,640
to make some deeper point about 
this tradition, but to talk 

860
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:42,680
about he's basically got like a 
litany of bad stuff, bad 

861
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,280
characters, because he's talking
about certain false teachers in 

862
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,520
the church. 
So it's it's sort of like a, an 

863
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,600
old school burn, if you will. 
Like he's like stacking up, you 

864
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,200
know, he's kind of roasting 
these guys a little bit. 

865
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:55,880
False teachers. 
Yeah. 

866
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,640
Now what about when we go to 
Genesis 3, the seed war, you 

867
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,000
know, the seed of the serpent 
being at enmity with the seed of

868
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,960
the woman. 
Do we see? 

869
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,800
I mean, I know that personally, 
I hold the view where I see the 

870
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,800
thread for the Nephilim, right, 
The law first mentioned, even in

871
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,880
Job, if you prescribe to that, 
where we see the angels are 

872
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,320
applauding the celebration, 
they're the same word. 

873
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,480
There's Benihah Elohim. 
And then when we go to Genesis 

874
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,560
64, like you just mentioned, the
Benihah, the Benihah Elohim saw 

875
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,400
the Banatha Dom, the daughters 
of Adam that they were fair, 

876
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,600
right. 
And then the Nephilim are in the

877
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,880
earth in these days. 
And everyone's like it's some 

878
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,080
some translations. 
You see giant there. 

879
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,760
We get Gigantis from the Greek 
right. 

880
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,120
Kia So I've heard all these 
arguments on every side. 

881
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,520
I've had guests like Gary Wayne 
on thoroughly 5-6 part series. 

882
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,120
We've hammered the idea home, 
the visible ones, the invisible 

883
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,840
ones, right? 
But what I love about you being 

884
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,320
here with me in the seat is your
heart and your passion and just 

885
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,560
letting the text be what it is, 
you know, and coming from an 

886
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,880
expertise in in the New 
Testament in the Bible and 

887
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,760
having that heart posture just 
to say, well, let's go there. 

888
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,640
Let's see what the final 
authority has to say about it. 

889
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,480
Do we see any threads from 
Genesis three to six four to the

890
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,320
tower of Babel, Nimrod becoming 
a mighty man or a mighty heart 

891
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,480
before the Lord? 
What what's happening language 

892
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,760
wise there and is there 
interconnectivity? 

893
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,760
Yeah, I, I think the short 
answer is there absolutely is 

894
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,160
interconnectivity because I 
mean, you have to keep in mind 

895
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,520
the the people that wrote the 
Bible, the the Old Testament, 

896
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,560
the New Testament comes together
in a shorter time and in a kind 

897
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,680
of more compressed format. 
But the writers of the Hebrew 

898
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:45,440
text, they, they absolutely love
interconnectivity and drawing 

899
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,000
these threads for us. 
And they do that with word play,

900
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,120
as you alluded to it, like, you 
know, linguistic hooks. 

901
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:57,360
So when you have, you know, Abel
killed by Cain, right, there's 

902
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,320
hooks from that back to the 
garden tradition, like the 

903
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,920
garden story. 
And then Seth is seen as kind of

904
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,480
like the New Hope for the seed 
of the woman, right? 

905
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,720
Produced. 
By. 

906
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:12,520
Right. 
So there's there's absolutely 

907
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:17,240
this thread is kind of running, 
running through throughout. 

908
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:20,360
So I just refer to it as the 
primeval history. 

909
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,640
That's Genesis one through 11. 
That's what scholars refer to it

910
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,200
as. 
But yeah, there's there's, 

911
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,840
there's all kinds of these, you 
know, sort of connections. 

912
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,120
And so, yeah, I don't know if 
you have anything like specific 

913
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:38,160
that you were wondering. 
Can you comment on like Hebrew 

914
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,880
poetry right for these concepts 
and these threads? 

915
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,840
Because I know, at least from my
understanding about Hebrew 

916
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,680
poetry, it's not rhythmic in 
language or in Word. 

917
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,120
Like like all poetry, it's 
rhythmic in storytelling, right?

918
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,200
So it's kind of like what we're 
talking about, that we see these

919
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,840
threads showing up and 
happening, you know, with Cain 

920
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,720
and Abel. 
You see glimmers of that in the 

921
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,800
garden when you see, umm, what 
is his name? 

922
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,400
Uh, Joseph in Egypt, he has the 
cup bearer dreams, right? 

923
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,240
One of the cup, the bread guy 
gets killed. 

924
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,280
You see some glimmers of the 
gospel in that, like the body is

925
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,360
killed, the cup bearer right, is
restored. 

926
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,560
And he and Joseph says in the 
prison cell like, hey, don't 

927
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,760
forget about me. 
Remind, you know, remind of what

928
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,880
my interpretation of this dream 
to the king, right? 

929
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,840
And like, I see the gospel in 
that. 

930
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,160
There's an allusion to the 
Joseph. 

931
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,520
There's a actually, there's an 
allusion to the Joseph story, 

932
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,720
you know, when his brothers see 
him coming from afar and they're

933
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,160
nice. 
All right, we're gonna, there's 

934
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:41,120
an allusion to that in the 
Gospels, in the the parable of 

935
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,040
the wicked tenants, when Jesus 
tells this parable about, you 

936
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,160
know, different servants that 
come or sorry, you know, the 

937
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,680
Lord sends different servants 
and they, they beat him, they 

938
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:51,440
go. 
And then finally he sees the 

939
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,240
they he sends the son and they 
see the son coming, you know, 

940
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:58,360
and they say, let's kill him. 
That's an allusion back to the 

941
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,600
Joseph story in that, you know, 
that parable. 

942
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,480
Yeah. 
So definitely. 

943
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:08,000
Like you have what are called 
typological connections, you 

944
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,640
know, from the old to the New 
Testament. 

945
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,400
Another great example is, you 
know, it's so crazy. 

946
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,960
You think about Genesis and this
back and forth, you know, from 

947
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,280
the land to Egypt, which is 
obviously playing itself out 

948
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,880
leading up to the Exodus. 
But then if you think about 

949
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,080
like, OK, so how did the people 
of Israel get to Egypt? 

950
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,760
It was an act of God preserving 
them during the time of a famine

951
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,040
through Joseph going to Egypt. 
And then you go to the New 

952
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,360
Testament, the first book, the 
New Testament is Matthew. 

953
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:44,040
And in order to preserve Jesus's
life, they go to Egypt. 

954
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,600
Joseph. 
Joseph takes the family to 

955
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,400
Egypt. 
And then he quotes Hosea, 11, 

956
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,120
one out of Egypt. 
I've called my son. 

957
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,880
So, yeah, yeah, there's these 
kind of connections there that. 

958
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,960
And The thing is, from your view
is that is literal, right? 

959
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,560
You actually believe Jesus as a 
child goes into Egypt 

960
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,640
physically, right? 
Oh oh. 100%, yeah. 

961
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,400
Yeah, I, I assume so. 
But like, I know that with so 

962
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,120
many figures of speech, there's 
a lot of strange stuff that that

963
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:14,880
goes on in Christianity where 
people say, oh, that's just an 

964
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,760
archetype, that's a parable. 
That's only for, you know, it's 

965
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,680
just idealism about something 
that didn't actually happen, 

966
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,440
right? 
Like, so when God says hide 

967
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,440
under the wing of the Almighty, 
it doesn't mean God have wings. 

968
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,240
Like, that's just a poetic 
phrase to, you know, he's 

969
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,680
painting a picture that 
resonates throughout the ages 

970
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,440
that a mother hen or any bird of
that sort would hide their their

971
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:39,520
chicks under the wing. 
Right. 

972
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,400
So it doesn't mean God has wings
all of a sudden. 

973
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,320
Yeah. 
But like so some places in the 

974
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,920
Bible, Lord. 
Is Jesus right When Jesus goes 

975
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,920
Jerusalem, I've longed to have, 
you know, huddle you under my 

976
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,640
wings like on your. 
Chick, he's doing. 

977
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:53,920
Jesus is doing the same thing, 
right? 

978
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,880
He's he's he's actually alluding
to the same kind of stuff in the

979
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,240
prophetic positioning. 
Yeah. 

980
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,960
So it's really fascinating to, 
you know, just learn this as I'm

981
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,360
going along and just hear, you 
know, just just for it to be 

982
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:11,400
deepened and, and to excite the 
idea that I believe the Bible 

983
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:12,800
means what it says, says what it
means. 

984
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,800
I think it's literal unless it 
cannot be taken literal, you 

985
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,000
know, And then I look at 
different formats of speech as 

986
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,800
being poetic or, you know, yeah.
I think that's really important,

987
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:27,920
what you said there is really 
paying attention to the kind of 

988
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,920
writing that's involved, or we 
call it genre and and what the 

989
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,360
writer's trying to do. 
Right, 'cause that's right. 

990
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:39,240
We want to understand scripture.
What can sometimes happen is we 

991
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:43,040
take literal to mean whatever 
makes common sense to us. 

992
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,600
And then the mistake there is 
that what's common to us might 

993
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,040
not be common sense to the to 
the writer, right? 

994
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,160
So, yeah, yeah, reading the 
Bible in the in the Protestant 

995
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:58,200
tradition, reading the Bible 
literally, literally meant for 

996
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,160
the Reformers trying to 
understand what the biblical 

997
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,600
authors meant to communicate, 
which meant which meant you have

998
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,920
to pay attention to history, 
context, type of speech, all of 

999
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,960
that, all the stuff you're 
talking about, you have to do 

1000
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,280
that. 
Sometimes when people say today 

1001
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,720
I read the Bible literally, they
just mean, well, I take it at 

1002
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:18,040
face value and this is what it 
looks like it's saying. 

1003
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,280
So it's got to mean that. 
And it's like, well, no, let's, 

1004
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,240
you know, keep in mind and 
there's a lot, lot of time gap. 

1005
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:24,640
We got to pay attention to 
context. 

1006
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,040
You know all that. 
Very well said. 

1007
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:32,120
And that reminds me of the Greek
word for training, Gunanzo. 

1008
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,880
I think it is intense intervals 
of training, right? 

1009
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,360
And it's like that's. 
Breathe. 

1010
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,800
Yeah, yeah, we have to train. 
I need to show yourself well 

1011
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:41,800
approved knowing to rightly 
divide the word that you will 

1012
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,760
not be ashamed right. 
So it's an individual case like 

1013
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,880
but for as many of us that are 
on this journey out there, I 

1014
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,240
think it's really worthwhile, 
you know, to read the Bible for 

1015
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:56,200
yourself, but also be teachable 
and and just learning the 

1016
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,800
ancient cultural context of 
things and and understanding. 

1017
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:03,040
I was blown away, dude, the 
whole entire if your eye be 

1018
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,320
dark, then how great is the evil
in you versus your eye be light.

1019
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,760
And then Doctor Mike Davis is 
going through and he's talking 

1020
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,280
about the understanding the 
language at the time was 

1021
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,920
generosity for light. 
So if if you be generous, your 

1022
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,600
body's foot and he's alluding to
this, this, you know, local 

1023
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,120
cadence that would have been 
understood completely in Jesus 

1024
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:23,560
time. 
And we've read it today and 

1025
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,480
we're like, oh, if your eyes 
dark, oh, you know, if people 

1026
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,360
can make anything out of that, 
I've heard so many wild things. 

1027
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,480
I'm like, no, please, someone 
help us. 

1028
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:32,280
Right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1029
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,080
That's the anointing to break 
the yoke on this. 

1030
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,400
Yeah, and, and we just have to. 
You're right. 

1031
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,200
We have to be really careful. 
We're all gonna make mistakes, 

1032
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,280
right? 
And we're all, I think what you 

1033
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,280
said about being teachable is so
important. 

1034
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,720
The more time I've spent 
studying the Bible, a kind of 

1035
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:54,520
like a, in more academic kind of
context, the more I'm aware of 

1036
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,120
how little I actually know. 
So I'm, I, I think the more 

1037
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,520
humility can actually be a sign 
that you, you actually know 

1038
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,360
something, You know, you're 
aware that there's just a lot 

1039
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,200
out there. 
And it's not like we have to be 

1040
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,120
afraid. 
You know, we have sufficient 

1041
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,960
knowledge and we can grow in 
that knowledge. 

1042
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,480
But but like, we don't have to 
pretend or act like to be a 

1043
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,800
disciple of Jesus, we have to 
have the answer to every 

1044
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,400
question, right? 
Some some things, some things we

1045
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,720
won't have the answer to ever. 
Some things we might get better 

1046
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,080
answers to, but we have to do 
some work, some study, you know,

1047
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,960
but we don't have to operate 
from a position of like, you 

1048
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,400
know, fear of OK, you know, I 
have to have the correct one 

1049
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,120
thing on every single thing and 
if it. 

1050
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,400
Doesn't have to be like 
aggressive and defensive like I 

1051
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,200
need to win this argument. 
Like no, this is a lifestyle and

1052
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,040
it should be a life journey as 
well. 

1053
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:45,200
Amen. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1054
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,000
Yeah. 
And I wanna sharpen and finding 

1055
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:53,720
so many other people that are in
that area has really been 

1056
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,000
uplifting because now there's 
it's like, I thought I was alone

1057
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,400
in the beginning. 
And it's like, no, you're, 

1058
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,920
you're never alone. 
You're gonna meet hundreds of 

1059
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:06,000
people as you go and just and. 
For, for all of the bad stuff, 

1060
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,280
the, the, the, the garbage we're
dealing with when it comes to 

1061
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,120
social media and Internet and 
all this kind of stuff, that is 

1062
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,320
one thing that is I think a 
blessing. 

1063
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,280
Like we, we have the ability to 
connect with, with people and 

1064
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,800
with sources of information in 
ways that are just 

1065
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,080
unprecedented. 
And it's great we take advantage

1066
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,240
of that, you know, and it's 
great that you're doing this 

1067
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,080
podcast and giving people the 
opportunity to journey with you 

1068
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,720
and think about scripture and 
and encourage, you know, just 

1069
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,880
encouraging one another. 
That's a great opportunity we 

1070
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,320
have so. 
So, well, let me let me ask you 

1071
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,240
a final question and we'll kind 
of wind down here for for a part

1072
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,400
one. 
But what, in your opinion, is 

1073
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,080
the most important encouragement
for the millennial generation 

1074
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,200
today? 
That's a great question. 

1075
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,840
I guess I'm an older millennial,
like very tip of that 

1076
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,680
generation. 
So I think I'll just speak from 

1077
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:08,560
the heart here and say Jesus is 
far greater, far better than the

1078
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:13,280
brokenness, the toxic brands of 
Christianity, the 

1079
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:18,080
authoritarianism, the anyisms 
that we, you know, encounter in 

1080
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,200
our world that we see in the 
church. 

1081
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:24,600
You know, Jesus is greater, he's
worth it and cling to him. 

1082
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:31,400
Continue to to follow him even 
when you're wondering like, 

1083
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,640
where am I? 
Do I belong in church? 

1084
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,800
Where do I belong? 
I've asked myself that question 

1085
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:40,880
sometimes, like where do I 
belong? 

1086
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,360
Who are my people? 
Because what I see going on 

1087
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,040
here, I don't know if I want to 
be a part of this or I just 

1088
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,960
don't know if I fit in or or 
whatever it may be. 

1089
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:55,280
But what keeps me going is 
Jesus, you know, it's he is, I 

1090
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:56,800
believe with every fiber of my 
being. 

1091
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,120
He's the Lord of the world. 
He he rose from the dead, as he 

1092
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,720
said. 
I mean, if that if we got I, I'm

1093
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,680
going to steal a quote from from
NT Wright that he had shared on 

1094
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,160
my. 
Podcast when I interviewed him, 

1095
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,080
which he stole from a London 
taxi cab driver. 

1096
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,000
So it's like 3 stages removed, 
but I thought it was so good. 

1097
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:22,960
He said, you know, he said the 
taxi cab driver turned around at

1098
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,440
him and said, well, if Jesus 
rose from the dead, it's all 

1099
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,720
everything else is pretty much 
rock'n'roll, isn't it? 

1100
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,640
And he's like, you know what 
that's that's about right. 

1101
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:36,680
Like, so if that is true, then 
it makes work following Jesus 

1102
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,840
worth it no matter what. 
But I, I want to say beyond 

1103
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:47,920
that, like there is a lot of, I 
think millennials are, are aware

1104
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,840
of a lot of the hypocrisy and 
the struggles in the church and 

1105
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,920
just forms of Christianity that 
maybe just don't really reflect 

1106
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,680
well who Jesus is. 
And so there's hunger, there's a

1107
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,040
desire for people to love one 
another, for justice, you know, 

1108
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,960
for all these really good 
things. 

1109
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,800
And I want to affirm all those 
things and just say that I think

1110
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,600
those things are ultimately 
found in Christ. 

1111
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,400
And that's where, you know, 
that's where we, that's where we

1112
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,720
find our true selves. 
That's where we find our true 

1113
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,560
identity. 
I don't know, I feel like I'm 

1114
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,400
rambling a little bit, but I'm 
kind of talking to myself in a 

1115
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,480
way as well because I mean, 
these are things that I think 

1116
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:31,760
about quite a bit. 
So. 

1117
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:39,520
First, John 411, beloved, if God
so loved us, we also ought to 

1118
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,880
love one another. 
I really enjoyed having you 

1119
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:45,720
here, man. 
It was refreshing. 

1120
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,840
We jumped around a little bit, 
like there's so many threads I 

1121
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,680
wanted to stay on, but I'm like,
oh wait, what about this? 

1122
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,880
So I would love to just invite 
you back for Part 2 down the 

1123
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,600
road. 
It was an honor. 

1124
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,080
Thank you. 
Thank you, Rod. 

1125
01:01:58,160 --> 01:01:59,720
I really appreciate it. 
This is a really fun 

1126
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,080
conversation. 
Thanks. 

1127
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:03,480
Well, that's the episode you 
guys. 

1128
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,920
I'm going to ask you to share 
this with your friends, family 

1129
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,440
members, Co workers, share it 
with your pastor, with your 

1130
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,120
doctor coming to you from 
Southeastern Pennsylvania. 

1131
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:20,000
God bless and goodbye. 
This is Boy Brandon. 

1132
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,160
Thank you for tuning into the 
Millennial Muscle seat. 

1133
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:34,720
My favorite podcast. 
Thought I was on my dead bed. 

1134
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:39,920
On my dead bed. 
I was really stressing. 

1135
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:44,800
I was stressing all that 
stressing. 

1136
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:49,840
It didn't turn depression. 
Thought the Lords don't want me 

1137
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,440
to let you go and learn this 
lesson. 

1138
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,240
Thought I was on my dead bed, me
stressing and I was caught up in

1139
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:58,960
my feelings. 
I was thinking reckless. 

1140
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,720
Thought the Lord don't want me 
let you go learn this lesson. 

1141
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,040
I was so deep in my tender I 
didn't see forgiveness. 

1142
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,960
Learn this lesson. 
You gonna learn this lesson And 

1143
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,480
my mind ain't turn on me like I 
was feeling helpless. 

1144
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,040
I ain't know which way to turn. 
Like I got inside my dead way. 

1145
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,520
I was defeating the ground, 
running in my casket. 

1146
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,400
I was dead and gone. 
Didn't see the light, couldn't 

1147
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,640
find my way home, couldn't fight
'cause I knew I was wrong. 

1148
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,200
No one inside. 
I was all alone. 

1149
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:25,320
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1150
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,120
But he changed all my ways. 
Saw me deep up in my sin. 

1151
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,320
And pull me out. 
The grape said he shed his blood

1152
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,080
for me. 
So I'm only this way now. 

1153
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,240
Just repent of all your sins. 
I'll show Amazing Grace. 

1154
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,440
Sometimes I think about. 
Sometimes I think about life 

1155
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,160
without you. 
What would I be about? 

1156
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,760
Be about? 
Where would I be if I didn't 

1157
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:46,760
have you? 
Sometimes I think about. 

1158
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,760
Think about. 
Sometimes I think about a life 

1159
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,000
without you. 
What would I be about? 

1160
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:56,320
Be about where would I be if I 
didn't have you who thought I 

1161
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,200
was on my dead end or my dead 
end? 

1162
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:06,800
I was really stressing. 
I was stressing all that 

1163
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:08,960
stressing needed to turn 
depression. 

1164
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,080
Thought the Lord don't want me 
like you gonna learn this lesson

1165
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,280
now. 
I'm on my way up my way up don't

1166
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,480
hold me Instead I just had to 
shake him, had to put my trust 

1167
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:27,800
in Jesus cause eat away Yahweh, 
Yahweh never be the same. 

1168
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,160
Let the whole me in the water 
right in Jesus name and I'm the 

1169
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:32,920
Holy Spirit. 
Now I'm really safe. 

1170
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,480
No more time for all my 
feelings. 

1171
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,560
Got to walk in faith and I'm 
ready for every battle that come

1172
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,480
my way. 
No I ain't joking. 

1173
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,960
Holy Ghost fire filling me down 
to smoking. 

1174
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,080
If you want it, you can get it. 
Got that power inside of me and 

1175
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,760
he is really potent. 
Every captain will be free. 

1176
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:57,680
Every devil got to flee, and not
because of me, but they got 

1177
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,200
inside of me. 
Sometimes I think about, 

1178
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,720
sometimes I think about life 
without you. 

1179
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:07,400
What would I be about? 
Where would I be if I didn't 

1180
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,480
have you? 
Sometimes I think about, 

1181
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,040
sometimes I think about a life 
without you. 

1182
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:17,760
What would I be about? 
Where would I be if I didn't 

1183
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:30,040
have you? 
I was really stressing. 

1184
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:43,200
I was stressing. 
Yes, welcome to the millennial 

1185
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,840
seat. 
Sorry, what is it called? 

1186
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,400
Millennial seed must. 
Millennial mustard seed. 

1187
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,000
Yeah, that's it. 
Millennial mustard tongue 

1188
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:51,360
twister.