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OK, welcome back to the show 
everybody. 

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I have an awesome episode in 
store for you guys. 

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I am joined by the one and only 
Brian Gadala. 

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He doesn't need much of an 
introduction with my audience, 

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but we're going to go over a 
couple amazing things that is 

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going on with Brian right now. 
He just released a book on 

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September 12th. 
Cruel Logic, Brian, welcome to 

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the show man. 
It's great to have you here. 

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Thanks for having me on, Rod. 
Absolutely. 

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So let's jump right into it, 
man. 

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What stirred, what was stirring 
up in you to to get you to want 

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to write this philosophical 
killer novel? 

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I mean, this is epic. 
What was going on in your mind? 

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Yeah, I call it a theological 
thriller. 

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Reason why is because it's 
basically a psychological 

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criminal thriller, psychological
crime thriller. 

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But I'm definitely dealing with.
I'm definitely telling a story 

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from a very unique perspective 
that. 

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Probably hasn't been done as 
much in the way that I'm doing 

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it, in that I'm sort of engaging
in some philosophical dialogue 

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within the thriller genre, 
which, you know, risky to say 

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the least, but people have been 
finding it to be exciting so 

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far. 
So the basic principle of or 

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premise of the story is Cruel 
Logic, the philosopher killer. 

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That's the title, and the 
premise is that. 

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It's a story of a serial killer 
on a woke university campus. 

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And so this guy is basically 
he's a professor who's a 

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brilliant professor, philosophy 
professor, but he's also a 

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serial killer. 
And what he does is he captures 

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university professors and he 
debates them and videotapes the 

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debate. 
And the topic of the debate is 

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his moral right to kill them. 
So he'll ask. 

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You know, he'll he'll ask him 
something like, okay, if what 

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you say is true about reality, 
give me one valid reason why I 

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should not kill you, and I'll 
let it go. 

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In other words, he's plumbing 
their moral theories and their 

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their theories of ethics. 
And each of the various 

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professors you know, 
evolutionary biologist, trans, 

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queer theorist, you know, 
feminist, All these various 

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world views. 
I'm exploring in in through the 

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the story in the novel and at 
the same time that this is 

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happening, I'm telling the story
also of a evangelical Christian 

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who goes to he's a freshman 
first year at a fictional, you 

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know, California campus and he's
introduced to social justice and

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it draws him in and we see a lot
of. 

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Well, we see everything that's 
going on on the college campus 

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these days with whether it's 
DEI, diversity, equity and 

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inclusion, indoctrination, queer
theory, trans ideology, all the 

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protests, BLM, antifa, all the 
stuff that's been going on on 

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campuses in the in this last 
decade or so. 

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I've sort of bring bring to bear
on the story because that's the 

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context of what this is going, 
that of what this is taking 

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place. 
And I was inspired by the notion

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of the idea that Western 
civilization is no longer taught

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in most universities. 
The curriculum, like many 

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universities for decades, had 
had at least a basic Western Civ

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requirement. 
You know maybe they would have 

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take some classes, a series of 
classes is all it was part of 

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the basic requirements. 
You know, learning the the 

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history of Western philosophy, 
Western civilization and 

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culture, music, some things like
that. 

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And that's all been done away 
with in in the context of the 

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modern woke university because 
the the higher education has 

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been captured by this, you know 
this deal Marxist. 

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Left wing paradigm that has 
reduced reality to oppressed and

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oppressor and all this stuff 
that's going on and what does 

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that lead to? 
You know, I I've been I've 

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thought a lot about it. 
A lot about you know what 

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happens when you when you take 
God out of a culture. 

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What happens when you get rid of
Western civilization, and that 

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is what the higher education has
been doing, is. 

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It's been seeking to get rid of 
Western civilization because it 

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conceives Western civilization 
as the as an oppressed, an 

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oppressor worldview of racism, 
sexism, homophobia, and and all 

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the other phobia you can 
imagine. 

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Right? 
And patriarchy. 

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And ultimately, they believe 
that Western civilization, they 

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understand that Western 
civilization is rooted on 

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Judeochristian values. 
And so there the the university 

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is up, has uprooted all this. 
And I've thought a lot about 

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what happens when you do that. 
And on the surface, you think, 

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oh, you know, we're getting rid 
of all this oppression and all 

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this fundamentalism or whatever,
But what are you really getting 

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rid of When you take away the 
foundation of civilization? 

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What are you going to get? 
And so the one of the dominant 

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themes in Cruel Logic is ideas 
have consequences. 

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And so I'm I'm, yeah, I'm 
wrestling at the higher level 

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with these big ideas and 
concepts, but this very related 

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to our everyday life. 
And of course it's in the 

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context of this thriller serial 
killer where a cop and a 

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psychologist who who is hunting 
down this this killer and the 

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psychologist is kind of like a 
Jordan Peterson character. 

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He's actually a professor at the
university trying to bring back 

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Western civilization. 
And so he's we're seeing through

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his eyes this, this battle for 
the soul of the of education, 

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but really of society itself, 
right, of civilization itself. 

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So that's that's the big picture
themes that I'm wrestling with. 

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But on that, on that personal 
level, it's these, this cop and 

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the psychiatrist trying to track
down this killer. 

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And at the same time, an 
evangelical Christian is brought

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into social justice. 
And how does that whole paradigm

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tend to seduce people and draw 
them into to to thinking that 

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way? 
And I think that it's rooted a 

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lot in the ill equipment of a 
lot of Christians these days to 

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deal with real skepticism and 
doubts and such. 

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But also I think that there is a
component of this woke campus 

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culture that learns how to 
manipulate the desire in people 

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for compassion. 
You know, we want to love 

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people. 
We want to accept people even if

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we disagree with them. 
And so it's it's learned how to 

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manipulate that conscience in 
order to try to drive them into 

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guilt into doing what they're 
supposed to do. 

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That kind of a thing. 
So that's the, that's the big 

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story introduction to it all. 
Wow, that. 

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That's amazing. 
I want to talk a little bit 

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about like character development
for one second. 

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So like you're, you're zooming 
out, big picture. 

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These are big topics. 
They're relevant. 

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We need to be going here. 
Thank God that we have you to do

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this for, for us as podcasters, 
as listeners, as just people 

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that are, in a nutshell, 
wrestling with these topics 

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ourselves. 
So let's talk about character 

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development here. 
When you're writing this book, 

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what was the inspiration like as
these characters are developing 

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to enter into these these very 
controversial topics? 

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Yeah, well, you know what? 
I I come from Hollywood, so I 

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love entertainment and I believe
entertainment. 

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So while I have a why I have 
that higher level interest in 

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these things, the bottom line is
you got to tell a great thriller

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story. 
And you know, one of my biggest 

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inspirations of all time has 
been Silence of the Lambs. 

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As well as the movie 7. 
Those are my two favorite 

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thrillers and I sort of write 
within that direction and from 

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that perspective and that kind 
of you know, dealing with the 

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scares and the fright but not 
going gory, too gory or or too 

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extreme, but but wrestling with 
that that primal human nature, 

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you know, and evil. 
The problem of evil and. 

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And and the desire in human 
nature and how that works itself

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out. 
But so my main characters end up

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being like I said this this 
character Joseph Calinger is his

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name. 
He's a a professor of psychology

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and he's like a Jordan Peterson.
And so he's trying to bring back

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Western civilization into the 
university. 

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And of course he's being 
attacked by all the students, by

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and, and he enters into all the 
politics of the university. 

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You know when when you go 
against the grain and when you 

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go against the establishment, 
what do they do? 

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They try to take you out. 
They try to, they try to cancel 

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you. 
So they're trying to cancel him 

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and and get rid of him and 
accuse him of things. 

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So basically I have what goes on
on these modern day campuses. 

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I actually drew from real events
that have been happening in the 

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in the last years that you can 
read about in the news. 

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You know you've got issues like 
the Evergreen University where, 

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you know, famous. 
Secular professors Brett 

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Weinstein and and his wife, you 
know, stood up to the mob of 

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student protesters who were 
racists trying to force white 

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people to white professors not 
to come in and teach white not 

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to have white people even on 
campus for that whole day. 

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And they got shut down and 
cancelled because they refused 

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to follow that racist thought. 
Or you know that racist demand 

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but yet this is the kind of 
thing that's going on in a lot 

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of universities, right. 
And so then the students didn't 

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became violent in their protests
and some of the professors were 

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actually endangered at at 
moments, you know, because of 

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their their violence as well as 
you know BLM and Antifa and that

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the kind of things that they are
doing all over the country. 

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So I'm bringing in all these. 
Components of our culture, and 

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I'm basing them all on what's 
really been going on. 

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So when you read this story in 
cruel logic, it's not going to 

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be outrageous things that I've 
made-up. 

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It's going to be this is stuff 
in the news. 

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In fact, I've even footnoted 
some of it because I've I've 

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sort of wanted people to 
realize, you know, this is not 

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crazy stuff I'm making up. 
This is really going on and I 

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just want you to know that. 
But you can enjoy the story and 

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and be entertained by it, and 
hopefully have this thrills and 

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chills that that that that a 
good thrill is supposed to have.

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So, yeah, so I so I've, I've 
been inspired by Silence of 

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Lambs. 
My my main killer, Charles 

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Cullen is a brilliant philosophy
professor. 

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So he comes from that, that 
background. 

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He's an Englishman. 
So he's got that English accent 

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and which I have in the audio 
book as well. 

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But and then then the character 
is evangelical Christian. 

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And you know, my goal was to to 
tell a story of. 

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I've been really sort of moved 
by what's called Christian 

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deconstruction or Christian 
deconversion. 

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This is happening a lot now 
where Christians will go to 

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college and they'll lose their 
faith. 

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But of course that's been 
happening ever since we've had 

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schools, right? 
But recently that's just been a 

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phenomenon. 
I think because of podcast a lot

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of people have. 
Started their podcasts and they 

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share their stories and a lot of
them are Christian celebrities. 

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Christian musicians or what have
you right. 

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And so they're telling their 
stories about how they lost 

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their faith. 
And and I think that it's really

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sad because this is an issue 
that I think all Christians have

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to wrestle with and dealing with
the doubts in their life and the

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troublesome things like evil. 
You know how how can there be a 

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God with such evil going on in 
this world? 

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How could he let this go? 
You know, that kind of thing. 

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And and to honestly wrestle with
these issues, and that's what I 

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do through this character Danny 
and as he also gets introduced 

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to the social justice movement, 
how he gets sucked into it. 

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Because I think a lot of that is
connected. 

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And my my contention is that a 
lot of Christians today we're 

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we're really ill equipped to 
deal with doubts and skepticism.

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And so for instance, a lot of 
churches, you know, they'll tell

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you all about Jesus and your 
prayer life and church and and 

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reading the Bible and the 
Bible's a word of God, but they 

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won't really give you the, the 
background to defend that. 

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It's sort of like just believe, 
just have faith, you know. 

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And what happens is these 
Christians will then go to 

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college and they'll, you know, 
they're taught, just believe the

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Bible's a word of God. 
Every word's perfect. 

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And the trouble is, is that. 
It's not. 

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It's not that way. 
It's the word of God. 

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But it's not perfect in the the 
the translations are not perfect

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in the way that you would expect
them to be, but they're not told

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this. 
So when they go to college, they

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get introduced to Bart Airman, 
and they see the facts that have

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been hidden by Christians 
because they're afraid to deal 

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with it, which is transmission 
errors and all these kinds of 

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issues. 
There are apologetics. 

227
00:13:26,260 --> 00:13:28,780
People who deal with this stuff,
but not a lot of Christians, 

228
00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:30,780
know much about it. 
So when they get introduced to 

229
00:13:30,780 --> 00:13:32,580
it, they lose their faith 
because it it. 

230
00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:35,900
These are facts that you can't 
deny, but they go against what 

231
00:13:35,980 --> 00:13:38,940
what they've been taught is what
the Bible is. 

232
00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:43,380
So they've been misdirected, 
misinformed, miseducated, and 

233
00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:46,580
they're not equipped to be able 
to deal with atheism with 

234
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:50,580
skepticism and doubts. 
In a real deep way, and I think 

235
00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:53,100
this is part of the reason, part
of the reason why they're losing

236
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:57,580
their faith is that the other 
part is also I think the 

237
00:13:57,580 --> 00:14:00,020
sociology of a lot of 
Christianity, you know with the 

238
00:14:00,020 --> 00:14:04,340
seeker seeker sensitive churches
focusing more on trying to be 

239
00:14:04,340 --> 00:14:08,940
relevant rather than truth 
oriented and I think also not 

240
00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:12,260
dealing with. 
Some of the personal issues that

241
00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:16,340
are, shall we say, The Dirty 
little secrets that that many 

242
00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:19,460
Christians struggle with but we 
don't hear a lot about, such as 

243
00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:22,060
pornography. 
So I have my character in the 

244
00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:26,380
story actually struggling with 
pornography in an honest, frank 

245
00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:30,180
way. 
So I'm not here to make, I'm not

246
00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:32,220
here to write cliches or 
stereotypes. 

247
00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:34,540
I want to be honest with all my 
characters. 

248
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,860
And the Christian character has 
his struggles, has his sins. 

249
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,840
Has his issues, but he's not a a
fake person. 

250
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,080
He's not some, you know, 
judgmental fundamentalist 

251
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,160
homophobe running around. 
Oh, you're going to hell, you 

252
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:51,960
know, No, anyone Christian. 
But he just has a a faith that's

253
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,560
not really founded on much of 
anything and which makes him 

254
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:55,360
easy. 
Pray. 

255
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,920
And you know, by the same token,
you know, I seek to show this 

256
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,320
woke university what it's like 
on the woke campus. 

257
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,240
But again, I'm not. 
Coming up with extreme scenarios

258
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,120
to make the the the bad guy look
look extremely evil and you 

259
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,120
know, like the kind of thing 
that they do with Christians, 

260
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,720
you know The Handmaid's Tale, 
right? 

261
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,400
So look at the dystopia that the
Handmaid's tell this. 

262
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,640
This one's got in control of the
country. 

263
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,840
Look what they would do and like
none of it looks like anything 

264
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,720
that any Christians think or 
believe, right? 

265
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,800
That's so absurd. 
And it's amazing how people buy 

266
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,280
it because of their prejudices 
and biases. 

267
00:15:32,780 --> 00:15:35,900
So I don't want to be like that.
I want to be honest even to the 

268
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:39,300
to the viewpoints that I don't 
necessarily agree with and to 

269
00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,940
this what's it like, what's 
going on in the woke 

270
00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:43,780
universities? 
What's really going on? 

271
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:48,780
And so therefore I also show 
what is drawing people, not just

272
00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:51,920
what's bad about it, but. 
What is it that's good about it 

273
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,120
that is making people be drawn 
into it? 

274
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,680
And how do these things 
interplay and what's what's 

275
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,960
really going on? 
So yeah, I don't try to make 

276
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,080
straw man or cliches. 
I really, my goal as a 

277
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:09,520
storyteller is to be honest and 
frank about every viewpoint in 

278
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,120
the story. 
So that even though I definitely

279
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,960
have a viewpoint as a 
storyteller, I want to depict 

280
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,120
all the different viewpoints, 
all the different. 

281
00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:23,340
Kinds of people that there are 
as best as possible and not 

282
00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:26,260
slander them as you know, 
cliches and stereotypes, which 

283
00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:29,140
is what most people do to their 
Christian characters when 

284
00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:31,740
they're attacking Christianity 
and stories and such. 

285
00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:34,140
I don't want to do that back to 
them, you know. 

286
00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:37,580
I want to tell a good story and 
one that might might at least 

287
00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:42,740
draw people in with a with an 
honesty that that I hope will 

288
00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:46,020
will ring true. 
Superlative. 

289
00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:50,650
That's amazing, Brian. 
It's just a couple things that 

290
00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:52,810
stood out. 
It's like how many men in the 

291
00:16:52,810 --> 00:16:55,490
church deal with the struggling 
with pornography. 

292
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:58,010
So as people are going to be 
reading this, they're going to 

293
00:16:58,010 --> 00:17:01,970
identify struggles that they've 
either had in the past or 

294
00:17:01,970 --> 00:17:03,490
currently dealing with. 
So it's really going to 

295
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:07,369
emotionally tie them in now and 
just it's it's phenomenal you 

296
00:17:07,369 --> 00:17:12,490
you covered so much there and we
don't really have anybody else 

297
00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:17,950
that that I'm aware of that is 
bringing into a it right into 

298
00:17:17,950 --> 00:17:21,910
your home into your lap real 
life issues that are taking 

299
00:17:21,910 --> 00:17:26,030
place real time under our news 
where we can take this journey 

300
00:17:26,349 --> 00:17:29,230
through a nonbiased but but 
Christian perspective. 

301
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:33,550
And I think it's, it's crazy 
cool that, you know, this guy is

302
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:37,430
hitting up the campuses and just
taking out, you know, all these 

303
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:39,590
false ideologies because it's 
kind of like that's what the 

304
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:41,630
gospel really does at the heart 
of it. 

305
00:17:42,110 --> 00:17:44,890
And it's phenomenal. 
Phenomenal, so. 

306
00:17:45,410 --> 00:17:46,970
Now do get me wrong. 
He's a bad guy. 

307
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:49,250
He's the villain. 
And he's not just making a 

308
00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:51,490
philosophical point. 
I'm not going to reveal the 

309
00:17:51,490 --> 00:17:54,250
twists that occur in the story. 
There are definitely he's he's 

310
00:17:54,250 --> 00:17:58,250
there's more story than just 
that and but that's where it 

311
00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:00,490
begins. 
That's that's the sort of press,

312
00:18:00,690 --> 00:18:06,330
you know, I I actually got this 
idea from a Christian apologist 

313
00:18:06,330 --> 00:18:08,970
that I love to listen to years 
ago he was. 

314
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:11,950
Back in the 60s and 70s, he was 
famous. 

315
00:18:11,950 --> 00:18:16,270
His name was Walter Martin. 
And Walter Martin, he wrote 

316
00:18:16,270 --> 00:18:18,870
Kingdom of the Cults. 
Anyway, he was a Rascal. 

317
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:21,950
He was a he. 
He had a good sense of humor. 

318
00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:23,750
That's why I liked him. 
And so he was talking on this 

319
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:27,270
old radio show that I was 
listening to, and he was 

320
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:30,230
describing his frustration with 
some atheist one in particular 

321
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:31,870
he was debating with. 
He was trying to say, hey, look,

322
00:18:32,590 --> 00:18:35,770
look, you know, he's like. 
He he's, he's like, you know, 

323
00:18:35,770 --> 00:18:38,330
your atheism doesn't provide a 
foundation for morality. 

324
00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:39,330
He's like, what are you talking 
about? 

325
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:41,730
I believe in morality. 
I believe murder's wrong and I 

326
00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:44,090
don't believe in God. 
He's like, yeah, that you True, 

327
00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:46,930
you do, but you don't have a 
foundation for it because your 

328
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:50,210
atheism is contradictory. 
And he got so frustrated that 

329
00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:53,250
the atheist couldn't think about
his thinking. 

330
00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:56,330
You know, he couldn't realize 
what's the foundation of what 

331
00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:58,930
I'm thinking. 
And so he just got so 

332
00:18:58,930 --> 00:18:59,850
frustrated. 
He got to the point. 

333
00:18:59,850 --> 00:19:04,470
He's like, OK, look, it's 1940s.
I'm a Nazi with a gun pointed at

334
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:05,310
you. 
You're a Jew. 

335
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:08,990
Give me one reason why I 
shouldn't shoot you, you know, 

336
00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:12,270
And that always stuck with me. 
That haunted me for years 

337
00:19:12,270 --> 00:19:17,870
because I felt that was a that 
was a powerful, dramatic way to 

338
00:19:18,270 --> 00:19:22,430
Incarnate the moral argument for
the existence of God. 

339
00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:25,630
In other words, you know, we can
make these logical arguments and

340
00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:29,670
and and they're legitimate. 
They're valid but but in some 

341
00:19:29,670 --> 00:19:35,460
ways if you can embody. 
A concept or an argument into a 

342
00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:39,020
human dramatic story. 
It could be more powerful and it

343
00:19:39,020 --> 00:19:42,780
can hit home in a more powerful 
way, just like a an analogy or a

344
00:19:42,780 --> 00:19:45,420
metaphor, right? 
And that's kind of what that did

345
00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:47,420
for me. 
It like, wow, that really 

346
00:19:47,420 --> 00:19:51,980
encapsules encapsulates the the 
moral problem that atheists 

347
00:19:51,980 --> 00:19:55,780
really have because they will 
attack Christianity. 

348
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:59,470
You know, if there's a loving 
God, if there's, if he's all 

349
00:19:59,470 --> 00:20:01,910
powerful and all loving, then 
why is there evil, Right. 

350
00:20:02,350 --> 00:20:04,230
And yet the truth is, is wait a 
minute, wait a minute. 

351
00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:06,470
You're you atheist. 
You're the one that has the real

352
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:09,710
problem. 
Because if there's no God, why 

353
00:20:09,710 --> 00:20:12,110
are you calling anything evil? 
Why do you have a problem with 

354
00:20:12,110 --> 00:20:13,430
murder? 
Why what? 

355
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:15,670
There is no such thing as evil 
there. 

356
00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:18,830
Everything is permissible at 
dos, as Dostoevsky had said. 

357
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:19,950
Right. 
And. 

358
00:20:19,950 --> 00:20:22,070
And interestingly, I find 
Dostoevsky's. 

359
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:29,260
You know his Sort of. 
Expression of this same argument

360
00:20:29,740 --> 00:20:34,340
in Brothers Karamazov was one of
the best expressions of it, with

361
00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:39,260
Ivan debating Alyosha about, you
know, this, this, you know, 

362
00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:42,060
against the love of God. 
You know, how could a loving God

363
00:20:42,060 --> 00:20:44,900
create a world in which this 
girl is beat up and tortured and

364
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:47,700
raped by her own parents and 
smeared with excrement, right? 

365
00:20:48,140 --> 00:20:51,140
And it's just this horror that 
he but he he really captures the

366
00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:58,730
profound emotional movement and 
psychological disturbance that 

367
00:20:58,850 --> 00:21:01,370
evil should give all of us, 
including Christians. 

368
00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:04,170
So I'm actually trying to 
wrestle through with this 

369
00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:07,330
problem of evil in God's 
existence and how do these 

370
00:21:07,330 --> 00:21:11,170
things coexist in a world? 
I want to wrestle with it, 

371
00:21:11,170 --> 00:21:16,170
honestly, because I do believe 
it's the universal conundrum or 

372
00:21:16,170 --> 00:21:18,930
it's the universal struggle in 
all of our hearts. 

373
00:21:19,370 --> 00:21:22,930
And as you get older, as the 
more I live, the more I become 

374
00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:26,740
acutely aware of the suffering 
and evil that's in the world and

375
00:21:26,740 --> 00:21:29,020
how unjust it is in in many 
levels, right. 

376
00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:33,020
And I think that that when you 
have that concern and you're and

377
00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:35,380
you think through, if you're an 
honest person, you're going to 

378
00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:37,300
say, hey, look this does cause 
me trouble. 

379
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,460
It's not easily answered just 
like that. 

380
00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:43,900
And so I wanted, I want to 
wrestle through with that issue 

381
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:48,180
too, on that deep human, 
psychological and spiritual 

382
00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:50,780
level. 
So. 

383
00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:54,530
What do you hope that like let's
just say a non believer would 

384
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:58,730
take away big picture and and 
even personally like what kind 

385
00:21:58,730 --> 00:22:02,250
of goes through your mind and 
then let's let's make this a 

386
00:22:02,250 --> 00:22:05,370
two-part that with a Christian 
what are you really wanting them

387
00:22:05,370 --> 00:22:09,410
to see highlighted big picture 
and what is your hope through 

388
00:22:09,410 --> 00:22:13,890
the this story to to really 
grasp them deep on the inside. 

389
00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:18,530
Yeah I don't know I mean that's 
an interesting question do you 

390
00:22:18,530 --> 00:22:19,530
know? 
I don't know. 

391
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:26,290
I guess I don't know if I have a
specific, if I have a specific 

392
00:22:26,290 --> 00:22:30,450
thing I want a an unbeliever to 
know or get out of it or a 

393
00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:32,890
believer. 
When I write a story like this, 

394
00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:37,570
I come at it from, you know, as 
we mentioned, these big picture 

395
00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:41,050
issues. 
And so I'm wrestling with a 

396
00:22:41,170 --> 00:22:46,330
deep, multifaceted, 
multiperspectival issue. 

397
00:22:47,310 --> 00:22:51,230
I'm actually, rather than 
seeking to prove something or 

398
00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:56,270
seeking to make my readers see 
something, I'm seeking as a 

399
00:22:56,270 --> 00:23:02,110
storyteller to honestly enter 
into the story, enter into the 

400
00:23:02,110 --> 00:23:06,390
issues that I'm that I'm 
wrestling with and to try to 

401
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:11,030
explore it from many different 
viewpoints and to be truthful 

402
00:23:11,030 --> 00:23:15,470
and honest about them and fair. 
So don't get me wrong, as a 

403
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:18,950
storyteller, I definitely have a
viewpoint, but in order to be a 

404
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:22,870
good storyteller, I want to, 
even if I have opposing 

405
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:25,510
viewpoints, I want to show the 
best of those viewpoints in a 

406
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:29,190
story. 
Because people embody these 

407
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:31,910
viewpoints in the way they live 
and the choices they make, the 

408
00:23:31,910 --> 00:23:35,110
moral choices they make, right. 
And like I said, I'm, I'm not 

409
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:39,630
out to make. 
I'm not to you know make paint 

410
00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:42,870
stereotypes and cliches and and 
political propaganda. 

411
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:46,990
I want to I want to wrestle with
the human condition in an honest

412
00:23:46,990 --> 00:23:50,390
way. 
And that means you know, giving 

413
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:53,190
giving your opponents their fair
shake so to speak. 

414
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:56,870
You know, depict all the varying
viewpoints with the best they 

415
00:23:56,870 --> 00:24:00,870
they've got and then seek to try
to tell a story how I think 

416
00:24:00,870 --> 00:24:04,270
this, this can work out how I 
think this works out in the real

417
00:24:04,270 --> 00:24:07,430
world because the the ultimate, 
you know, one of the dominant 

418
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:10,710
themes in the story is ideas 
have consequences. 

419
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,280
So if you really lived 
consistently with some of these 

420
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,880
ideas that people have, what 
would it really look like? 

421
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,360
I think many people really do 
have a lot of beliefs and 

422
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:22,840
they're very convicted about 
them. 

423
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,360
Whether believers or 
unbelievers, it doesn't matter. 

424
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,880
They have strong convictions. 
But I found actually both 

425
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,680
Christian and nonchristians have
not thought through a lot of 

426
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,280
their beliefs. 
They'll believe contradictory 

427
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,200
things, you know? 
And they're not really. 

428
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:37,880
They really haven't thought it 
through. 

429
00:24:38,650 --> 00:24:44,090
And but while while I am 
intrigued by philosophy, by 

430
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:47,050
worldview thinking, I also 
understand that not everyone 

431
00:24:48,010 --> 00:24:50,130
thinks in those terms. 
Not everyone cares about 

432
00:24:50,130 --> 00:24:52,730
philosophy or, you know, 
theology, right? 

433
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:57,210
And so I'm also have that dual 
interest in, like I say, 

434
00:24:57,210 --> 00:25:01,810
entertainment, drama, thrillers,
You know, I love that kind of 

435
00:25:01,810 --> 00:25:04,330
stuff. 
And so I figure, you know what, 

436
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,840
let me let me tell a story that 
it combines both my interests 

437
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,160
and maybe people will be drawn 
in to to something that's a 

438
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,560
little different and and sort of
make things interesting, you 

439
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,200
know? 
And who's your favorite 

440
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,360
character that that you wrote 
about? 

441
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:22,280
Who? 
Like when you were writing from,

442
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,480
you know you're talking about 
all these other perspectives, 

443
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,560
Like you wanted to give 
everybody a fair shake and just 

444
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,320
have a brief good overview that 
just connects all these things 

445
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,880
together. 
But who was your personal 

446
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,500
favorite to write about? 
Well, yeah, I know that's a good

447
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:34,980
question. 
I do have a favorite. 

448
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:37,780
So like I said, I, I have all 
these different, you know, 

449
00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:43,460
professor characters, right. 
And again, I I don't, I don't 

450
00:25:43,460 --> 00:25:46,380
seek to make them into cliches. 
You know, I I do try to paint 

451
00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:50,340
characters that are common in, 
in these various fields. 

452
00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:54,020
You know, there are certainly 
patterns of behavior, patterns 

453
00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:56,900
of look and dress, right. 
You know, just like nerds look 

454
00:25:56,980 --> 00:25:59,180
very similar, jocks look very 
similar, right. 

455
00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:00,460
So. 
So there are very many 

456
00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:03,900
professors who also look very 
similar, but but that's a 

457
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:06,900
shallow understanding. 
My goal was to sort of capture 

458
00:26:07,140 --> 00:26:11,420
the a common archetype so to 
speak of each of these different

459
00:26:11,420 --> 00:26:13,540
characters. 
But my personal favorite 

460
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:16,620
character was the was the main 
protagonist of the story which 

461
00:26:16,620 --> 00:26:20,420
is Joseph Calendar. 
Like I said he he is a professor

462
00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:25,020
of of psychology and what I like
about him is he represents a 

463
00:26:25,020 --> 00:26:27,060
kind of a Jordan Peterson 
character to me. 

464
00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:31,750
And this is also something I've 
noticed is there is there are, 

465
00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:36,150
It's almost like another there's
almost like a backlash against 

466
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:40,590
this woke anti western 
civilization movement. 

467
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:47,030
There is more intelligent men 
who are standing up up and 

468
00:26:47,030 --> 00:26:51,510
fighting for western 
civilization, including fighting

469
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:53,790
for the judeo-christian. 
They understand that there's a 

470
00:26:53,790 --> 00:26:59,070
judeo-christian basis to it and 
that we get rid of this at our 

471
00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:00,190
peril. 
Right. 

472
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,360
But interestingly, a lot of 
these men are not even 

473
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,200
Christians. 
So they're sort of you know, 

474
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,280
like a Jordan Peterson where 
well he certainly has a kind of 

475
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,680
a belief but he said so himself 
that it it's not the it's not 

476
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,280
the typical sort of with the way
we understand having sort of an 

477
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,600
evangelical understanding of you
know having a personal 

478
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,920
relationship with God and and 
but there's others like Douglas 

479
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,040
Murray you know who defends 
Western civilization and I love 

480
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,120
these guys. 
Tom Holland they write about 

481
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,640
this stuff but I find it so 
interesting they're not 

482
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,440
Christians. 
And so I I wanted to what's it 

483
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,000
like to be that kind of a person
you know and and and where might

484
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,440
that lead you know and what's 
the difference Why is it that 

485
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,320
they can believe in Western 
civilization believe that 

486
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,960
judeo-christian you know Bible 
worldview is good for society 

487
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,040
and yet still not believe it for
themselves. 

488
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320
What does that what is that like
and what what might that end in 

489
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,360
you know. 
And so that was my personal 

490
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:06,520
favorite journey because I 
literally was trying to 

491
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,240
understand I I I because I'm I'm
a Christian and so I'm like how 

492
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,120
could you be for all this stuff 
and yet not fully embrace it. 

493
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,840
And in in terms of the faith and
and it's sort of like you 

494
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,920
believe it but you don't believe
it. 

495
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,000
I don't understand that. 
You know and this isn't a this 

496
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,040
isn't a I don't say this as a 
criticism. 

497
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,440
I love these guys. 
I I have other respect for them.

498
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,480
I just truly don't understand 
and I wanted to try to 

499
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,240
understand that and that that 
was the most interesting part of

500
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,400
my writing for me personally. 
Fascinating. 

501
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,640
Yeah. 
I mean, you have so, so many 

502
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,360
previous popular series, you 
know, The Chronicles of the 

503
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,680
Nephilim. 
I mean just you have so much. 

504
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Ferocity in in your writing that
just is it's the ripple effect 

505
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,280
is can't really determine it 
Brian it's it's fascinating just

506
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,520
to hear you talk because it as 
many people has been affected by

507
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,240
this it's it's amazing so do you
are do you have a Part 2 in mind

508
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,960
for this cruel logic or do you 
think it just stands alone or or

509
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,080
does the development of the 
things that were. 

510
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,560
Dealing within the world, 
determine what may be. 

511
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,160
You know, putting some time on 
it and saying, yeah, Part 2 

512
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,080
could develop, but let's see how
things shift in turn. 

513
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,120
You know, who knows what the 
future may bring. 

514
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,280
At this point I I see it as a 
standalone novel, but I have a 

515
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,560
series of novels called 
theological novels that I am 

516
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,600
interested in exploring. 
And again, it's it's sort of 

517
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,880
like combining philosophy and 
serial killers. 

518
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,030
I, you know, I'm hoping this 
will be a a a new interest in 

519
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:44,910
people, you know, putting 
together 2 opposite things, so 

520
00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:48,070
to speak, to make them 
interesting, you know make 

521
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:50,950
philosophy interesting again, I 
don't know. 

522
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:53,750
But all I know is that that's 
what I that's why I look, I 

523
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:58,430
love, like I said, I love, I 
love serial killer stories and I

524
00:29:58,430 --> 00:30:00,910
love philosophy. 
So I I'm, I'm putting the two 

525
00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:02,750
together. 
And so I do have some other 

526
00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:07,150
stories that I'm I'm working on 
and they're actually rooted more

527
00:30:07,150 --> 00:30:09,910
in in true stories that have 
happened. 

528
00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:13,310
But I'm going to be, you know, 
adding some fictional characters

529
00:30:13,390 --> 00:30:18,350
who who interact with the story 
that I think might be very 

530
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:23,230
interesting, but we'll see. 
Now I want to bring up. 

531
00:30:24,670 --> 00:30:26,950
So you're an awardwinning 
screenwriter, right? 

532
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:29,670
You've been doing Hollywood 
movies for the past 20 years. 

533
00:30:30,510 --> 00:30:34,150
A more recent controversial film
is My son Hunter. 

534
00:30:34,190 --> 00:30:36,630
This is 2022. 
Let's just talk a little bit 

535
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:37,550
about that. 
Just. 

536
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,360
How did that work out and what 
was that process like? 

537
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,960
Yeah, So my son Hunter is a 
political satire, not a 

538
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,920
documentary. 
It's a political satire. 

539
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,720
It's a drama that's based on 
Hunter Biden's laptop. 

540
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,200
Now, of course, when we when I 
first started writing it in 2021

541
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,440
or something like that 22, it 
was of course still being 

542
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,960
suppressed, right? 
And and now all the facts have 

543
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,320
come out about how it was 
suppressed. 

544
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,660
Now it's all true. 
And and but at the time it was 

545
00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:13,100
still not promoted or it's 
suppressed. 

546
00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:16,780
It was suppressed in mainstream 
media and so but there were 

547
00:31:16,780 --> 00:31:20,700
journalists like Miranda Devine 
who put out her book Laptop from

548
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:24,700
Hell. 
Although that came after my I I 

549
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:27,700
read that I found out about it 
after I wrote the movie. 

550
00:31:27,860 --> 00:31:30,420
It wasn't released until we 
started making the movie. 

551
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:33,420
But she had done a lot of 
reporting on it and and so there

552
00:31:33,420 --> 00:31:36,910
was a lot of reporting in the 
New York Post and other sources 

553
00:31:36,910 --> 00:31:39,430
that actually gave a lot of the 
details of what was on the 

554
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:43,070
laptop and we want. 
So the producers came to me and 

555
00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:45,670
they said, you know we want to 
do a movie on on to buy his 

556
00:31:45,670 --> 00:31:46,910
laptop, but we don't know what 
to do. 

557
00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:49,870
You know what give us some ideas
And and I said, you know, I 

558
00:31:49,870 --> 00:31:52,590
don't want to do documentary and
they didn't either because you 

559
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:55,270
know there's a place for 
documentaries, but I don't know.

560
00:31:55,870 --> 00:31:58,510
And there's. 
But also I found it was so 

561
00:31:58,510 --> 00:32:02,870
complex because here you have 
this, this, you know, as we now 

562
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:06,550
are seeing, all these complex 
connections to all these, you 

563
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:11,750
know, countries, whether it's 
Ukraine or China, Russia and 

564
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:17,630
dirty business dealings with the
Bidens, you know, and and of 

565
00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:22,030
course the sensational stuff was
the prostitutes and the drugs, 

566
00:32:22,390 --> 00:32:24,790
you know, and that's you got to 
have that in Hollywood movies so

567
00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:27,350
that, you know, on one level I'm
like, well, this is a Hollywood 

568
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:29,670
movie because it's got the sex 
and drugs and rock'n'roll. 

569
00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:32,710
But there's more to it, right? 
You know but here's the 

570
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:36,270
interesting thing, both the 
producers and I, when we 

571
00:32:36,270 --> 00:32:40,430
developed the story and and so 
they they they came to me and 

572
00:32:40,430 --> 00:32:42,830
said you know yeah what can we 
do And I thought well you know 

573
00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:48,550
what I was really inspired by 
The Big Short and and The Wolf 

574
00:32:48,550 --> 00:32:51,110
of Wall Street kind of. 
I mean the the technique that 

575
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:55,790
was used where they they do a 
political satire and and they do

576
00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:58,150
a lot of creative things like 
they break the 4th wall where 

577
00:32:58,150 --> 00:33:01,210
they talk to the audience and 
you know they do all these you 

578
00:33:01,210 --> 00:33:04,290
know funny quirky things that 
allows them to cover a lot of 

579
00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:06,410
time and a lot of issues 
quickly. 

580
00:33:07,010 --> 00:33:10,050
And that's what this was and and
I didn't want to get bored and I

581
00:33:10,050 --> 00:33:13,170
want to pick the most highlights
but how do you, how do you link 

582
00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:15,690
all these things together or you
can do it through satire because

583
00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:19,250
it's comedy and that allows you 
to make a lot of jumps and make 

584
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:22,370
connections that you couldn't do
in a normal traditional story 

585
00:33:22,930 --> 00:33:25,130
And and I realized that's what 
it needs to be. 

586
00:33:25,210 --> 00:33:31,620
But also secondly this wasn't a 
it wasn't a it was not a 

587
00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:34,780
political hit piece. 
I mean like and both the 

588
00:33:34,780 --> 00:33:39,300
producers agreed with me. 
We did not want to you know 

589
00:33:39,620 --> 00:33:44,140
write a movie that will show how
bad Hunter Biden is and look at 

590
00:33:44,140 --> 00:33:45,780
how you know this is what 
Hollywood does right with all 

591
00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:48,300
their political enemies. 
You know, the Comey rule does it

592
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:53,460
to Trump and and the with the 
loudest voice in the room to 

593
00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:57,580
Roger Ailes, they just, they 
make these their their enemy, 

594
00:33:57,580 --> 00:34:02,720
their the the politicians 
they're critiquing or attacking.

595
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,880
They just making them into these
absurd monsters, you know? 

596
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,440
And what was the Dick Cheney 
one? 

597
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,320
I can't remember what that one 
was called. 

598
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,840
But anyway, they're all just 
ridiculous sort of cliche 

599
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,920
stereotypes and like, you know 
what? 

600
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,850
I wasn't interested in that. 
And I actually felt the kind of 

601
00:34:19,850 --> 00:34:25,050
sense of sadness for Hunter 
Biden because I saw this as this

602
00:34:25,050 --> 00:34:28,010
is a interfamily dysfunction. 
That's deep. 

603
00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:31,960
Father, son, but also elder 
brother who ended up dying. 

604
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,840
But it's a, it's a 3 way sort of
father, son relationship and 

605
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,320
there's a lot of dysfunction, 
but a lot of it's driven by this

606
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,480
desire to be loved, to be 
accepted. 

607
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,800
You know, it was very deep, 
personal, typical universal 

608
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,320
family dysfunction stuff only on
an extreme level because of the 

609
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,159
drugs and the sex and the crimes
of the bind family, right. 

610
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,639
And so we wanted to actually 
delve into that personal 

611
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:03,160
relationship with the Bidens, 
you know, and that was the human

612
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,640
drama that actually made me want
to do the movie. 

613
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,360
And what's interesting about it 
is although every leftist outfit

614
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,080
attacked the movie, which is a 
sign that we did a good job 

615
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,040
because they felt they needed to
attack it. 

616
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:16,800
And. 
Right. 

617
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,800
But some, it's interesting 
because some of them were like, 

618
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,200
yeah, but, you know, they kind 
of made Hunter Biden a kind of 

619
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,160
empathetic, you know, and they 
didn't understand this. 

620
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,860
Some of them thought we did it 
unwittingly, like we didn't 

621
00:35:30,860 --> 00:35:34,260
realize we were making him 
empathetic, and others couldn't 

622
00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:37,020
figure out why. 
And it's so funny because it's 

623
00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:40,500
like they are so blinded by 
their ideology that they could 

624
00:35:40,580 --> 00:35:43,500
only imagine demonizing their 
opponents. 

625
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:46,660
They don't understand how to 
humanize opponents. 

626
00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:49,860
And here we are, conservatives, 
filmmakers. 

627
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:54,900
We're humanizing our opponents 
and we're telling a good story 

628
00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:56,730
about them and they don't get 
it. 

629
00:35:56,770 --> 00:35:58,410
It just doesn't jive in their 
minds. 

630
00:35:58,410 --> 00:36:01,210
They're that blinded by it. 
But that was also affirming and 

631
00:36:01,210 --> 00:36:03,530
confirming to us that we did the
right thing. 

632
00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:05,010
And we did it well. 
We did it right. 

633
00:36:05,010 --> 00:36:07,010
You know. 
So yeah, I was kind of proud of 

634
00:36:07,010 --> 00:36:09,690
that. 
And, you know, yeah. 

635
00:36:09,690 --> 00:36:12,130
And and of course happy with. 
The performances were excellent 

636
00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:18,370
by Lawrence Fox playing Hunter 
Biden and James John James 

637
00:36:18,370 --> 00:36:22,730
playing Joe Biden. 
Of course, in Hollywood, 

638
00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:26,590
normally you can get characters 
that look exactly like them, 

639
00:36:26,590 --> 00:36:29,030
that are great actors, but of 
course not when you're doing a 

640
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:32,350
movie about the Bidens, right? 
So nobody in Hollywood would 

641
00:36:32,350 --> 00:36:34,590
hardly work with us. 
We had to get only those who are

642
00:36:34,590 --> 00:36:36,350
willing to give up their 
careers, right? 

643
00:36:36,670 --> 00:36:39,150
But fortunately they still we 
still did a pretty good job 

644
00:36:39,150 --> 00:36:42,070
because Lawrence Fox looked 
pretty good as a hunter and he 

645
00:36:42,070 --> 00:36:45,990
was fantastic. 
Actor John James was quite heavy

646
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:49,550
and and and a lot more deep of a
voice than than Joe Biden. 

647
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:56,130
But his acting was so well that 
you know you, it drew you into 

648
00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:57,850
the story. 
Anyway, I was able to put aside 

649
00:36:57,850 --> 00:37:00,090
the fact that OK, he doesn't 
look exactly like Joe, he 

650
00:37:00,090 --> 00:37:03,850
doesn't talk exactly like Joe, 
but he's got the character down 

651
00:37:03,850 --> 00:37:07,130
and that's the most important is
finding the soul of the 

652
00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:09,250
character. 
So all that was happening, I 

653
00:37:09,250 --> 00:37:11,810
think all that that happened 
with that, with that movie, 

654
00:37:11,810 --> 00:37:13,370
pretty well. 
But of course Hollywood would 

655
00:37:13,370 --> 00:37:15,370
not distribute it. 
They couldn't get it distributed

656
00:37:15,370 --> 00:37:18,250
anywhere. 
So even to this day you can only

657
00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:23,630
see it online. 
Streaming@mysonhunter.com and 

658
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:25,990
you know for pretty, I think 
pretty good price. 

659
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:28,110
I don't know if it's rentable or
or you have to buy it or not, 

660
00:37:28,110 --> 00:37:32,230
but yeah, so that's where we 
were with that and I was kind of

661
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:35,630
surprised that oh, so, so now 
that all this stuff that's now 

662
00:37:35,630 --> 00:37:39,190
coming out and being covered on 
mostly in Twitter, not on in the

663
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:41,830
mainstream media still. 
It's X now, right? 

664
00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:44,590
It's X. 
It's like you could, so I can't 

665
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:47,470
even keep up with it. 
Yeah, it's kind of funny, but 

666
00:37:47,470 --> 00:37:49,950
but the stuff that's now coming 
out, it's so funny because I'm 

667
00:37:49,950 --> 00:37:52,760
looking at this stuff and it 
it's not new. 

668
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,560
None of the stuff that they were
and this e-mail is where he's 

669
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,160
called him the big guy. 
It's like this stuff was, it was

670
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,720
known years ago when I was 
writing the script. 

671
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,800
So nothing is new. 
So I'm kind of proud of the fact

672
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,560
that I ended up picking all the 
most interesting things for the 

673
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,560
story. 
That also happens to be the the,

674
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,360
the revelations now that are 
coming out about what was really

675
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,720
going on and and so it's like, 
oh, we picked the right, we 

676
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:20,960
picked the right component 
elements for the story. 

677
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,920
Yeah, so proud of that. 
Wow. 

678
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,480
Yeah, that that's, it's quite, 
quite a journey, man. 

679
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,600
I love. 
One of the highlights I'll just 

680
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,720
comment on real quick before the
next question is you didn't try 

681
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:40,800
to demonize Hunter Biden like 
you just were honest to the 

682
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,600
process. 
And I think I mean, he's a 

683
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,240
pathetic. 
He's a We all know that. 

684
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,520
He's tragic, right? 
And and he's kind of a hero, but

685
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,680
he's a tragic hero. 
In other words, his bad choices 

686
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,280
lead to his demise. 
And that's what a tragedy is all

687
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,560
about. 
But of course in this, in the 

688
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,560
reality, it's not going to 
happen that way, right? 

689
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,760
He's going to get away with his 
crimes, sadly. 

690
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,560
So we actually deal with that in
the movie as well. 

691
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,880
I deal with the fact that we all
know that justice is not going 

692
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,430
to be played out. 
And so let's have a let's see 

693
00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:13,630
what a fairy tale ending really 
is like in a movie. 

694
00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:17,230
That kind of thing. 
Amazing, amazing. 

695
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:19,350
And I'm going to put links in 
the show notes, you guys. 

696
00:39:19,350 --> 00:39:21,630
So as we just kind of go through
these different, you know, 

697
00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:25,510
screen rights and movies and and
Brian's books, you guys will be 

698
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:27,270
able to find all those details 
in the show notes. 

699
00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:31,590
So let's kind of like even walk 
back to 2011 alleged, right. 

700
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:34,430
Let's talk a little bit about 
this is a screenplay. 

701
00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:39,710
It's awardwinning feature film. 
What one best narrative? 

702
00:39:40,410 --> 00:39:43,930
Feature and actors awards and 
six major film festivals. 

703
00:39:44,050 --> 00:39:46,290
That's phenomenal. 
Just let's do a brief overview 

704
00:39:46,290 --> 00:39:48,770
on that real quick. 
Honestly, I, I forgot about all 

705
00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:51,490
that. 
But yeah, that was a fun, that 

706
00:39:51,490 --> 00:39:54,330
was a fun movie to write. 
So that's based on the Scopes 

707
00:39:54,330 --> 00:39:57,250
Monkey Trial, right. 
So we, you know and Fred Foot 

708
00:39:57,250 --> 00:40:01,290
was the investor and the and the
producer and and executive 

709
00:40:01,290 --> 00:40:03,970
producer that he really wanted 
to tell the true story that had 

710
00:40:03,970 --> 00:40:06,930
been, you know, when you hear 
Scopes Monkey Trial, what do you

711
00:40:06,930 --> 00:40:09,650
think whatever it is you think 
it's all based on this? 

712
00:40:10,130 --> 00:40:19,210
This propaganda of like these 
podunk ignorant Christians 

713
00:40:19,410 --> 00:40:23,050
standing up against the great 
edifice of science and 

714
00:40:23,050 --> 00:40:24,970
knowledge, you know, it's just 
ridiculous. 

715
00:40:25,090 --> 00:40:28,610
What does everyone know? 
Inherit the Wind, which was a 

716
00:40:28,610 --> 00:40:31,650
play and a movie, even though 
it's like, you know, I don't 

717
00:40:31,650 --> 00:40:35,690
know from the 60s or something 
50s, everyone knows that. 

718
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,440
And yet that is a complete 
farce. 

719
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,360
It's a complete falsehood. 
And so Fred wanted to sort of, 

720
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,120
well, let's tell the the true 
story. 

721
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,480
But be fair again, we're not 
going to demonize the way they 

722
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,680
demonize Christians. 
We're not going to demonize the 

723
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,200
atheists. 
But we wanted to show, you know,

724
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,960
from from both sides, Clarence 
Darrow and William Jennings 

725
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,240
Bryan. 
And of course, we had some great

726
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:01,000
actors. 
Fred Thompson, they're both 

727
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,360
deceased now. 
Brian Dennehy and Fred Thompson 

728
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,960
played those two Titans, you 
know, and we show that that 

729
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,560
battle Royale as it's called, as
it was called, but in a way that

730
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,400
we also wanted to show the cult.
Again, this is one of my themes.

731
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,840
Ideas have consequences. 
In that story, I said I wanted 

732
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,280
to deal with the consequences of
this idea, not just the trial 

733
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,520
and and the battle that was 
going on at the time. 

734
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,800
But we, we brought in something 
that was actually historically 

735
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,800
occurring at the time, which was
euthanasia and how euthanasia 

736
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,280
was based on the social 
Darwinian view. 

737
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,440
It took Darwinism and brought it
to its logical conclusion in 

738
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,040
society. 
And of course, now people say, 

739
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,240
oh, it is that, you know, that 
that was misinterpreting 

740
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:48,440
evolution. 
That's twisting it. 

741
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,320
No, actually, it was just being 
consistent. 

742
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,240
And that's the bottom line. 
And Clarence Darrow actually did

743
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:59,440
believe in in evolution and he 
actually did believe in 

744
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,560
euthanasia. 
So he's really a villain. 

745
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:05,220
It's interesting because he's 
one of the greatest, you know, 

746
00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:11,420
defender lawyers in, in liberal 
history. 

747
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:13,460
But he was quite, a quite the 
monster. 

748
00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:15,700
In fact that was the guy before.
And we brought this into the 

749
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:19,700
movie too. 
The fact that before the trial 

750
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:27,220
he had also defended Leopold and
Loeb, who were these two college

751
00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:29,900
kids who murdered a 14 year old 
boy. 

752
00:42:30,740 --> 00:42:37,070
And their defense, literally 
because of evolution, was still 

753
00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:43,190
popular and well known. 
And these kids were upper elites

754
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:48,150
who just killed some kid that 
they happen to know, but they 

755
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:53,070
did it more out of a nihilistic 
sort of curiosity. 

756
00:42:53,870 --> 00:42:57,550
And so they were educated and 
they had actually studied. 

757
00:42:57,590 --> 00:43:00,190
They were actually known about 
Nietzsche, Friedrich Nietzsche 

758
00:43:00,310 --> 00:43:05,180
and his worldview and as well as
evolution. 

759
00:43:05,180 --> 00:43:08,740
And so Clarence Darrow in the 
trial actually made the argument

760
00:43:08,740 --> 00:43:12,620
that, you know, hey, these, 
these boys believe that and and 

761
00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:17,020
and we're being taught this. 
So can you blame them if they've

762
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:19,180
been taught that we're animals 
and there's no morality? 

763
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:21,780
You know, there's they're soup. 
They're overmen, Ubermensch. 

764
00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:24,420
They're overmen. 
Why not? 

765
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:26,740
You know, I mean, how can you 
blame them? 

766
00:43:26,860 --> 00:43:28,620
The point was they're not to 
blame. 

767
00:43:28,820 --> 00:43:32,560
Society has taught them this, 
and and here he believes in it, 

768
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,480
but he's also justifying it. 
He was truly an evil monster, 

769
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,880
you know? 
And so anyway, we brought a 

770
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,720
little bit about that reality. 
And in other words, this is all 

771
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,800
ideas have consequences in 
society. 

772
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,360
It's not just this, Oh, 
Christians are Christians are 

773
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,240
idiots because they're 
suppressing science. 

774
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,000
No. 
It's if you're teaching this 

775
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,360
stuff, if you teach people that 
they're animals without 

776
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,200
morality, it's no surprise that 
they're going to act like 

777
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,100
animals without morality. 
So these are the issues that we 

778
00:44:01,100 --> 00:44:05,860
wrestle but of course the the 
movie alleged was definitely not

779
00:44:06,220 --> 00:44:09,060
you know, not like my R rated 
you know cruel logic or anything

780
00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:12,780
like that was definitely a you 
know G rated for Christian type 

781
00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:15,580
of story. 
But but I felt like, you know, 

782
00:44:15,580 --> 00:44:18,980
we tried to deal with, like I 
say, wrestle with that with a 

783
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:23,420
with a fresh, more true to 
history perspective. 

784
00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:25,780
Yeah. 
And I just wanted to bring up a 

785
00:44:25,780 --> 00:44:27,860
couple other things, just stir 
up some interest. 

786
00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:31,300
Just so people, you just have 
such a long list, Brian. 

787
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:34,660
I just want people to just be 
aware of of what you've done, 

788
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:37,620
what you're doing and and even 
what you will be doing in the 

789
00:44:37,620 --> 00:44:39,980
future. 
So let's talk a little bit 

790
00:44:39,980 --> 00:44:43,540
about, you know, your founding 
member of the Arts and 

791
00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:47,580
Entertainment Ministries in LA. 
We'll just take it from there 

792
00:44:47,580 --> 00:44:50,180
and just tell us what you're a 
founding member of, what you're 

793
00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:52,860
supporting and what's close to 
your heart in these days. 

794
00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:55,990
Right now, these are 
organizations that I've been 

795
00:44:56,030 --> 00:44:57,830
involved in mostly when I was in
LA. 

796
00:44:59,230 --> 00:45:01,750
I've since moved out in the last
few years. 

797
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:06,030
But yeah, I've been on boards. 
I've been in like the Biola task

798
00:45:06,030 --> 00:45:09,830
force, which is for film. 
It's it was like with Hollywood 

799
00:45:09,830 --> 00:45:15,150
professionals helping students 
to to you know adapt and come 

800
00:45:15,150 --> 00:45:17,750
into the real world of 
filmmaking and the arts and 

801
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:20,830
entertainment as a ministry to 
Christian artists that was in 

802
00:45:20,830 --> 00:45:23,020
LA. 
Yeah. 

803
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:25,820
Several of these these 
organizations I belong to where 

804
00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:30,100
I've just tried to be a part of 
something that is is helping to 

805
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:34,740
inspire the next generation. 
And also and also communicate to

806
00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:38,860
the church a better appreciation
for the arts in general because 

807
00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:40,860
we have not had the best 
reputation. 

808
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:43,260
The church has not had the best 
reputation with the arts. 

809
00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:47,540
You know it's often rejected it 
because of the the risk taking 

810
00:45:47,540 --> 00:45:52,240
that art is the the, you know, 
the yeah, it sometimes pushes 

811
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,720
the pushes the envelope and 
sometimes it goes too far. 

812
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:58,800
But the point is, is the church 
has tended to have less of a 

813
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:04,120
support of of art and but we, 
you know, we've had our good 

814
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,160
days and bad days I think. 
But that's sort of the other 

815
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,120
part where you know I have even 
written books like Hollywood 

816
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,280
World Views which was my my 
desire to help Christians watch 

817
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,440
movies more intelligently. 
Don't just throw out all the sex

818
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:17,840
and violence. 
So I don't it's all bad. 

819
00:46:18,290 --> 00:46:19,610
Yeah. 
But also don't say, well, it's 

820
00:46:19,610 --> 00:46:21,370
just entertainment, so it 
doesn't. 

821
00:46:22,170 --> 00:46:24,890
Is that still being used in 
Christian colleges to this day? 

822
00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:27,330
Yes. 
It's build be still being used 

823
00:46:27,330 --> 00:46:30,290
in classes is 20 years old and I
did have an updated version. 

824
00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:33,650
But because I talked a lot about
Hollywood world views, literally

825
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:37,650
how world views are communicated
through storytelling in movies 

826
00:46:37,930 --> 00:46:41,860
and television series, right? 
And you know, the more that you 

827
00:46:42,220 --> 00:46:45,220
understand about an art, the 
better you can appreciate it, 

828
00:46:45,220 --> 00:46:48,140
but also the more you can 
discern and not be manipulated 

829
00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:50,500
by it or not be, you know, 
bamboozled. 

830
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:52,660
So just like you know. 
So the more you learn about 

831
00:46:52,660 --> 00:46:55,020
storytelling, you can watch a 
movie more intelligently 

832
00:46:55,020 --> 00:46:58,020
appreciate it, but also see 
where you disagree and where you

833
00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:03,330
you don't want to be controlled.
Because storytelling touches us 

834
00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:05,730
in the soul in an unconscious 
way in some ways. 

835
00:47:05,730 --> 00:47:13,210
You know it it it moves us, it 
affects us in non rational ways,

836
00:47:13,210 --> 00:47:14,690
right? 
So you might be thinking 

837
00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:17,410
rationally on this one level, 
but that it's touching. 

838
00:47:17,410 --> 00:47:20,210
The story can be touching your 
heart in a way that's very 

839
00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:22,810
different. 
And so the more you're aware of 

840
00:47:22,810 --> 00:47:26,810
what that, what that is, how 
that story does that, then the 

841
00:47:26,810 --> 00:47:30,830
more you're protected, but the 
more you can also appreciate the

842
00:47:30,830 --> 00:47:33,510
good as well. 
So it's discernment between the 

843
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:37,830
good and the bad. 
So talk really quickly about, is

844
00:47:37,830 --> 00:47:41,830
it the Mick Lat Ministries for 
for Michael Heiser, Mick Lat. 

845
00:47:42,350 --> 00:47:44,150
So yeah, just talk a little bit 
about that. 

846
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:47,110
I'm just unfamiliar with it. 
I'm seeing it here and it's, oh,

847
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:50,030
I was drawing some curiosity. 
Mick Lat is now going to be 

848
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:53,950
called the Michael S Heiser 
Foundation, and I'm on the board

849
00:47:53,950 --> 00:47:59,390
for that because I discovered 
Michael Heiser's theology a 

850
00:47:59,390 --> 00:48:04,710
decade ago and he was writing 
about the Divine Council world 

851
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:08,030
view in the Bible. 
He's an he passed away about a 

852
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:14,710
year ago and he he, he. 
But he wrote about strange 

853
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:17,190
things in the Bible. 
Shall we say the stranger things

854
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:20,400
in the Bible. 
Nephilly watchers, the divine 

855
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,720
counsel, all these weird things.
You know, but he's a Bible 

856
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:26,520
believing so. 
But he's also not afraid to 

857
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,040
address real scholarship in the 
Bible that other Christians are 

858
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,480
afraid to address. 
And I discovered him because I 

859
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,800
was writing my what became my 
first novel Noah Primeval. 

860
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,200
I was actually writing it as a 
as a screenplay and I discovered

861
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,320
his book on the Internet before 
it was a book. 

862
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,080
It was. 
He was just. 

863
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:49,100
Starting to write manuscript. 
Yeah he wasn't he wasn't famous 

864
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:52,700
yet he's now famous but he 
wasn't famous at the time. 

865
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:56,100
And and I discovered and it blew
my mind and it opened my opened 

866
00:48:56,100 --> 00:49:00,580
my eyes like Eliza's servant 
could then see the the the all 

867
00:49:00,580 --> 00:49:03,460
the spiritual powers up there. 
Well, that's what happened with 

868
00:49:03,460 --> 00:49:05,260
me. 
And I realized there's a lot of 

869
00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:08,380
stories here that I want to tell
from the Bible that has this 

870
00:49:08,380 --> 00:49:11,140
supernatural component that is 
kind of we miss. 

871
00:49:11,140 --> 00:49:14,810
We miss a lot and and and all 
these weird things in the Bible 

872
00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:17,290
that we that we're afraid to 
deal with. 

873
00:49:17,450 --> 00:49:20,770
And that became my series, 
Chronicles of the Nephylene, 

874
00:49:20,770 --> 00:49:23,490
which is now 8 novels. 
I've got Chronicles of the 

875
00:49:23,490 --> 00:49:26,410
Watchers, which is about 3 
novels now, and they're all 

876
00:49:26,410 --> 00:49:28,210
integrated. 
And Chronicles of the 

877
00:49:28,210 --> 00:49:31,250
Apocalypse, these are all these 
novels that I wrote inspired by 

878
00:49:31,250 --> 00:49:33,410
Mike's theology. 
So I got to know Mike real well 

879
00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:35,530
and. 
And he put me on his board and. 

880
00:49:36,010 --> 00:49:40,500
And yeah, so. 
So that was, that was something 

881
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:43,780
that was life changing for me in
terms of theology, but in a way 

882
00:49:43,780 --> 00:49:47,860
that helped me to alter my my 
relationship and understanding 

883
00:49:47,860 --> 00:49:52,420
of God in a very deep way. 
I mean it's you're changing the 

884
00:49:52,420 --> 00:49:56,700
world with with this, this story
that you just covered here about

885
00:49:56,860 --> 00:49:59,980
knowing my causer and then 
seeing these these threads and 

886
00:49:59,980 --> 00:50:03,100
him being this scholar that is, 
you know, willing to go into 

887
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:04,780
these areas that other people 
weren't. 

888
00:50:04,780 --> 00:50:07,380
You know, I'm just looking at 
it's some stats here, Brian. 

889
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:12,140
Since 2012, your first novel 
series, Noah primeval, it's been

890
00:50:12,140 --> 00:50:16,580
#1 bestseller in the top five 
biblical fiction spot for the 

891
00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:19,580
past 10 years. 
Yeah, yeah, even right now. 

892
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:21,260
Go there. 
Right now it's it's number one 

893
00:50:21,260 --> 00:50:25,100
in like several categories. 
In the series of 15 novels have 

894
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:28,660
dominated for top 20 in biblical
fiction. 

895
00:50:28,660 --> 00:50:30,260
So it's just it's phenomenal 
and. 

896
00:50:31,340 --> 00:50:34,180
I know who Mike Kaiser is. 
I've known of known of him for 

897
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:36,140
years. 
And I just think it's it's noble

898
00:50:36,140 --> 00:50:39,180
and it's just honorable for you 
to be on that board because you 

899
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:42,460
speak so well of him and he's 
really loved it just in the 

900
00:50:42,460 --> 00:50:46,340
community of my listeners. 
You know, I never got Mike on 

901
00:50:46,340 --> 00:50:48,140
the show. 
I reached out to him saying like

902
00:50:48,140 --> 00:50:54,020
21 and he was busy because he 
really was drumming up a lot of 

903
00:50:54,020 --> 00:50:56,230
interest. 
A lot of interest. 

904
00:50:56,350 --> 00:51:00,030
He was just exploding. 
I mean, oh man, it is one of the

905
00:51:00,030 --> 00:51:02,430
things we're like, Lord, why, 
why do you take some of the best

906
00:51:02,430 --> 00:51:05,030
people, you know. 
But God used them in a great 

907
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:08,630
mighty way and he's inspired 
many of people like me who have 

908
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:13,230
taken his teaching and we we 
pushed it further and in the 

909
00:51:13,350 --> 00:51:16,670
other realms. 
And so it's just sort of the 

910
00:51:16,670 --> 00:51:18,710
form of. 
Storytelling, just in this form 

911
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:21,230
of storytelling, what you're 
doing, which we we talked about 

912
00:51:21,550 --> 00:51:23,190
a few years ago. 
Last time I talked with you, 

913
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:25,110
Brian, the power of 
storytelling. 

914
00:51:25,410 --> 00:51:29,410
And just it's that's what the 
church is lacking in, like you 

915
00:51:29,410 --> 00:51:32,330
were speaking about earlier. 
The church does lack in that 

916
00:51:32,370 --> 00:51:34,930
power of storytelling because 
it's kind of like mundane. 

917
00:51:34,930 --> 00:51:36,370
They just kind of read some 
churches. 

918
00:51:36,370 --> 00:51:39,450
Not all, not all. 
Mike Kaiser's church would have 

919
00:51:39,450 --> 00:51:41,810
been, you know, if you would 
have been at church with him and

920
00:51:41,810 --> 00:51:43,250
he would have been at the 
podium, you would have been 

921
00:51:43,250 --> 00:51:46,890
gripping your seat. 
But yeah, and I love to see how 

922
00:51:47,050 --> 00:51:49,510
you know. 
God has this calling for you. 

923
00:51:49,590 --> 00:51:52,270
You're obviously on the path 
he's been opening doors for 

924
00:51:52,270 --> 00:51:55,230
year, year after year after year
and the abundance and the 

925
00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:59,910
blessing, yes, that you're you 
are in God working in and 

926
00:51:59,910 --> 00:52:02,750
through you to just open up 
these other paradigms. 

927
00:52:02,750 --> 00:52:04,510
Some of us can see this really 
well. 

928
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:08,750
Some of us see this but but to 
get bigger picture revelation is

929
00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:11,590
is key especially in this age of
technology, Brian. 

930
00:52:12,030 --> 00:52:14,550
So let's as we kind of start to 
wind down a little bit, just 

931
00:52:14,550 --> 00:52:18,100
tell us like. 
Anything cool going on lately? 

932
00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:21,340
Did you get any cool vacations 
this past summer? 

933
00:52:21,340 --> 00:52:23,700
And what's on the horizon? 
Just what's going on in Brian 

934
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:26,620
Goodell's world, Not a lot, to 
be honest. 

935
00:52:26,620 --> 00:52:29,020
You know, we moved to Texas, 
actually a few two and a few 

936
00:52:29,020 --> 00:52:30,580
years ago and just loving it 
here. 

937
00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:35,180
We escaped Los Angeles and just 
been loving it. 

938
00:52:35,180 --> 00:52:38,060
But, you know, just try just 
enjoying living a normal life 

939
00:52:38,060 --> 00:52:41,710
and being, you know, heavily 
involved in our church and 

940
00:52:42,590 --> 00:52:46,230
trying to resettle in this. 
Listen, we lived in California 

941
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:48,950
for 30 years, so it's an. 
Adjustment. 

942
00:52:49,110 --> 00:52:54,150
It's a big adjustment because as
bad as California has become and

943
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:57,590
as bad as as the cities 
definitely are, there's much 

944
00:52:57,590 --> 00:53:01,130
beauty and there's much that we 
do miss from California and we 

945
00:53:01,130 --> 00:53:02,970
realize how much we become 
Californians. 

946
00:53:02,970 --> 00:53:05,570
You know, and how we don't 
certain ways that we don't fit 

947
00:53:05,570 --> 00:53:09,010
in, even though our values are 
very much like the Midwest and 

948
00:53:09,010 --> 00:53:11,850
Texas and such. 
There's still much of us that 

949
00:53:11,850 --> 00:53:14,410
yeah, we we're different people 
now too because of where we've 

950
00:53:14,410 --> 00:53:16,690
we've come from. 
So, you know, it's it's been, 

951
00:53:16,690 --> 00:53:18,490
it's been a lot of adjusting to 
that. 

952
00:53:18,490 --> 00:53:20,930
And in the meantime, then I'm 
just been, you know, trying to 

953
00:53:21,850 --> 00:53:26,090
continue to do my writing 
ministry, my writing calling. 

954
00:53:26,810 --> 00:53:29,930
So, you know, I usually write 
like a script a year, a movie a 

955
00:53:29,930 --> 00:53:33,850
year and a book or two a year. 
But I've slowed down lately and 

956
00:53:33,850 --> 00:53:36,130
I'm trying to get speeding back 
up again. 

957
00:53:36,490 --> 00:53:40,090
And so now, you know, I'm 
continuing my Chronicles of the 

958
00:53:40,090 --> 00:53:45,410
Watchers series as well as the 
next theological thriller novel.

959
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:48,370
So now I've kind of got two 
pathways that I've got to work 

960
00:53:48,370 --> 00:53:51,350
on and we'll see if I can keep 
up the the pace there. 

961
00:53:51,350 --> 00:53:55,190
But yeah, nothing, nothing big, 
nothing special, actually, just 

962
00:53:55,190 --> 00:54:00,070
enjoying a normal life, but one 
that's I've got to focus on this

963
00:54:00,070 --> 00:54:02,310
storytelling. 
And it really is a calling 

964
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:07,600
because as you mentioned, what I
write is I do, you know, my I 

965
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,360
love to, I love to tell 
entertaining stories, but I also

966
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,480
love to communicate truth and 
the Kingdom of God in as in as 

967
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,280
entertaining way as possible to 
people. 

968
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,840
And I really have received, been
receiving a lot of responses 

969
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,280
from readers, you know, 
contacting me and just saying, 

970
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,080
you know, you've brought the 
Bible alive. 

971
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,960
The Bible is getting dry to me. 
You've brought it alive again 

972
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,160
and it's but I'm going back to 
the Bible to reread it. 

973
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,840
In other words, the my 
storytelling is inspiring to go 

974
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,880
back to the Bible, not just just
read more of my books, but it 

975
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,920
was like, yeah, go back and 
reread that Bible, seeing it in 

976
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,040
with fresh eyes. 
And that's exactly what happened

977
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,880
with me. 
And reading Michael Heiser's 

978
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,520
material and and discovering 
this new thread line that's been

979
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,840
there all along. 
And yeah, and it's just 

980
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:58,880
inspiring Christians to be able 
to understand and interpret the 

981
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:04,200
Bible through the ancient Near 
Eastern and Hebrew mindset, not 

982
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,310
our modern Western mindset. 
That has just transformed many 

983
00:55:09,310 --> 00:55:11,190
people. 
And it's been a pleasure and an 

984
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:15,310
honor to be part of that. 
Yeah and we're we're just 

985
00:55:15,310 --> 00:55:18,470
excited to see as you just keep 
working in your gift and and 

986
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:21,190
keep doing these things, you're 
just bringing greater revelation

987
00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:25,510
and getting people to read their
Bible again and ultimately 

988
00:55:25,550 --> 00:55:27,630
develop a personal relationship 
with Christ. 

989
00:55:27,630 --> 00:55:30,230
From my perspective, that's kind
of the goal here on the podcast 

990
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:32,710
as we have a really wide 
spectrum of topics we cover. 

991
00:55:33,070 --> 00:55:35,070
I don't want to leave anything 
out, I mean. 

992
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,040
Don't get me wrong, there's 
certain things I'm like, Nope, 

993
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,120
don't want to go there. 
But, you know, we don't want to 

994
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,640
be a stranger to these bigger 
ideas. 

995
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,600
The church is kind of boxed in, 
a lot of this thinking and what 

996
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,840
you're doing is blowing the roof
off of it. 

997
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,120
And we're shooting up 510 
stories in the ideas of what we 

998
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,080
really need at least a minute 
basis. 

999
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,360
We got to have some language for
this stuff. 

1000
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,800
And one thing I want to say 
earlier with the question that 

1001
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,920
you know I had asked you with 
cruel logic. 

1002
00:56:03,970 --> 00:56:06,810
Was there anything that you 
wanted a Christian to see versus

1003
00:56:06,810 --> 00:56:08,770
maybe you know a non Christian 
that was reading it. 

1004
00:56:09,370 --> 00:56:12,330
And like the reason I asked that
is because I'm like visualizing 

1005
00:56:12,330 --> 00:56:15,050
and thinking just about when 
you're talking and I'm going. 

1006
00:56:16,290 --> 00:56:19,410
So many people are stuck in 
these narrow trajectories of 

1007
00:56:19,410 --> 00:56:22,050
what they they just want to stay
right here. 

1008
00:56:22,050 --> 00:56:26,490
And whether it's politics or 
whether it's everybody has hurts

1009
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:28,410
and pains and and the way that 
they were raised. 

1010
00:56:28,410 --> 00:56:31,690
But I'm hoping that it would 
just cause them to take one 

1011
00:56:31,690 --> 00:56:34,320
little step over. 
And go, Oh well, that's 

1012
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,960
interesting. 
And it opens and widens this 

1013
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:39,920
track. 
Not saying that, you know, 

1014
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:44,800
that's the answer, but getting 
people out of this narrow, 

1015
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,040
aggressive you can't tell me 
anything. 

1016
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,920
We can't communicate, we can't 
sharpen on each other ideas. 

1017
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:55,640
That's really helpful. 
So I highly recommend you guys 

1018
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,560
go pick up Brian's new book and 
Brian, let's close out. 

1019
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,360
Just give us some motivational 
words. 

1020
00:57:01,730 --> 00:57:05,650
For my listeners, you know, give
us some edification here real 

1021
00:57:05,650 --> 00:57:08,130
quick. 
I don't know, Rob. 

1022
00:57:08,730 --> 00:57:11,010
We're living in crazy times. 
Give us a little bit of 

1023
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:13,410
edification here. 
Just, you know, let me tell you.

1024
00:57:13,410 --> 00:57:14,530
Yeah. 
In fact, that a lot of my 

1025
00:57:14,530 --> 00:57:18,130
storytelling too is a response 
and reaction to the extreme 

1026
00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:22,450
polarity, the extreme hostility 
that is building in our culture.

1027
00:57:22,770 --> 00:57:25,530
And I'm capturing that reality 
as well in my story. 

1028
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:28,710
And I'm trying to show at least 
point in the right direction, 

1029
00:57:28,790 --> 00:57:31,470
because stories aren't 
systematic theologies. 

1030
00:57:31,470 --> 00:57:33,870
They're not complete 
philosophical discourses, you 

1031
00:57:33,870 --> 00:57:37,350
know? 
I mean, like, stories challenge 

1032
00:57:37,350 --> 00:57:39,430
you to think things through a 
little bit more. 

1033
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:41,710
They challenge you to think from
a different perspective. 

1034
00:57:42,190 --> 00:57:45,230
That's my goal. 
Not to complete everything and 

1035
00:57:45,230 --> 00:57:48,150
to provide a complete summary of
all truth or, you know, that's 

1036
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:51,630
ridiculous. 
But but I I'm telling my stories

1037
00:57:51,630 --> 00:57:55,580
to try to help people to start 
to see things differently and 

1038
00:57:55,580 --> 00:58:03,940
not fall prey to that very 
hostile polarity that is 

1039
00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:06,660
breeding violence in this 
culture. 

1040
00:58:06,820 --> 00:58:09,580
It and I see it happening and I 
see it coming, and it's getting 

1041
00:58:09,580 --> 00:58:12,020
stronger. 
And I deal with that very issue 

1042
00:58:13,060 --> 00:58:15,900
in in cruel logic. 
Ideas have consequences and 

1043
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:18,420
violent ideas have violent 
consequences. 

1044
00:58:18,780 --> 00:58:22,550
And we've got to. 
We've got to somehow we've got 

1045
00:58:22,550 --> 00:58:26,270
to band together against this, 
and I don't know how. 

1046
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:29,030
You know, there are people who 
are of differing viewpoints who 

1047
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:32,270
are banding together, you know, 
like those who support free 

1048
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:33,910
speech. 
You've got left and right, 

1049
00:58:34,110 --> 00:58:38,110
Democrats and Republicans who do
believe in free speech and 

1050
00:58:38,110 --> 00:58:41,950
supporting it. 
But we need more and beyond 

1051
00:58:41,950 --> 00:58:46,310
that, because the the commanding
heights of the culture have been

1052
00:58:46,310 --> 00:58:52,470
captured by this woke monster 
and at the heart of it is hatred

1053
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:54,750
and violence and separating 
people. 

1054
00:58:55,030 --> 00:59:00,590
So we're we need to seek to draw
together and stop this 

1055
00:59:00,830 --> 00:59:03,470
demonization of your of your 
opponents. 

1056
00:59:04,430 --> 00:59:06,830
Very, very well said, very well 
said. 

1057
00:59:06,830 --> 00:59:10,110
That's, that's important. 
Yeah. 

1058
00:59:10,190 --> 00:59:15,150
Brian, it was an honor to have 
you here with me and just to go 

1059
00:59:15,150 --> 00:59:16,430
over this. 
And I don't know if you knew 

1060
00:59:16,430 --> 00:59:18,950
this or not, but you're actually
in the introduction for the 

1061
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:20,750
show. 
So when you were on, I think it 

1062
00:59:20,750 --> 00:59:26,310
was 2020 or 2021 at the very end
of the episode I asked you for 

1063
00:59:26,310 --> 00:59:30,190
some wine down words and you 
yelled freedom and you said in 

1064
00:59:30,190 --> 00:59:31,910
the words of William Wallace, 
right. 

1065
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:33,710
So that's actually in the intro 
to the show. 

1066
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:36,790
So for all you guys listening 
where there's this like climax, 

1067
00:59:37,150 --> 00:59:39,590
you know when you hear freedom 
being yelled, that's that's 

1068
00:59:39,590 --> 00:59:42,710
Brian here and that's cool. 
Yeah man. 

1069
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:47,230
Tell people where they can find 
you and where where you prefer 

1070
00:59:47,230 --> 00:59:49,190
people to purchase the book. 
You know if we can get some 

1071
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:52,030
people over there to to get a 
copy. 

1072
00:59:52,030 --> 00:59:53,990
Is this on Amazon? 
You know just go through that 

1073
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:55,310
real quick and look if you're 
if. 

1074
00:59:55,310 --> 00:59:58,390
We'll close out if you're really
curious about me as an author 

1075
00:59:58,390 --> 01:00:01,030
and all the things I've done in 
movies and all that, gaddala.com

1076
01:00:01,030 --> 01:00:03,580
is my website. 
There's a lot of stuff there to 

1077
01:00:03,580 --> 01:00:05,940
look through, but if you just 
want to go straight to the books

1078
01:00:05,940 --> 01:00:07,780
and just find out information 
about the books, what are the 

1079
01:00:07,780 --> 01:00:10,380
books about and all that, the 
best thing is just go to Amazon.

1080
01:00:10,380 --> 01:00:12,860
Because all my books are 
exclusively on Amazon and 

1081
01:00:12,860 --> 01:00:17,980
paperback, Kindle audio book, 
and some are even in hardback. 

1082
01:00:18,380 --> 01:00:21,180
And you know, you go there and 
you find like the Gadala's 

1083
01:00:21,180 --> 01:00:24,260
author page or the series page 
for Chronicles and nothing and 

1084
01:00:24,540 --> 01:00:27,620
it'll it'll give you a big 
lowdown on what what the books 

1085
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:30,420
are about and what you can 
expect right there on Amazon and

1086
01:00:30,500 --> 01:00:33,360
and buy it right there. 
So yeah, everything exclusively 

1087
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,560
on Amazon and my name is spelled
GODAWA. 

1088
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,200
It was a pleasure to have you 
with me and you guys. 

1089
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:43,800
That's it. 
That's the episode. 

1090
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,680
I'm blown away. 
This is something I'm gonna re 

1091
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,840
listen to after I launch it for 
you guys to listen to here and. 

1092
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:52,650
Brian is really pushing the 
boundaries. 

1093
01:00:52,650 --> 01:00:56,490
He's stretching the boundaries 
here and this is, this is 

1094
01:00:56,490 --> 01:00:59,970
honorable you know and we're 
we're a working body. 

1095
01:01:00,290 --> 01:01:04,730
So his function is important 
because we all work together and

1096
01:01:04,730 --> 01:01:07,170
we we're supposed to be 
processing this information and 

1097
01:01:07,170 --> 01:01:09,450
encouraging each other through 
the process. 

1098
01:01:09,690 --> 01:01:11,250
So that's it. 
That's the show. 

1099
01:01:11,330 --> 01:01:13,850
Share this one with a friend, 
family member with your 

1100
01:01:13,850 --> 01:01:17,410
coworker. 
God bless and goodbye.