1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360 So I was 24 when I started Clean Harvest. 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,160 I had no clue on how big this company was going to get. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,480 As you can imagine, I was interested in starting a 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,000 business. I had been working in the 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,000 environmental space prior to that. 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,240 I left Northeastern University to actually work full time in 7 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,000 the environmental industry. My boss was a former Boston 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,240 Patriot football player and I really enjoyed working for him. 9 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:26,000 And tragically he died of a heart attack at 46 years old. 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,920 And because of that and changes that were happening after he 11 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,120 passed away, I decided I want to go off and kind of do my own 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,480 thing and never in my wildest dreams that I think we would 13 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:39,040 ever grow to the size that we're at today. 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,280 Welcome to the Environmental Transformation Podcast, where we 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,600 bring you interviews with industry leaders, climate 16 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 champions, sustainability practitioners, EHS, and hazmat 17 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,000 professionals making an impact in their businesses today. 18 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:54,240 Each leader solving complex challenges and delivering 19 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,320 solutions within their areas of expertise. 20 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,760 I'm your host, Sean Grady, and thanks for joining us today. 21 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,480 Before we jump in, make sure to follow us on your devices and 22 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,960 visit my website at www.seankgrady.com and sign up 23 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:10,400 for our newsletter and e-mail announcements. 24 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,000 Now let's get started. Welcome to the Environmental 25 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,520 Transformation podcast. I'm your host, Sean Grady, and 26 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,880 today's guest is the former CEO of Clean Harbors. 27 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,600 He's now the Chairman of the board. 28 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,520 And Alan Mccab, he's the founding member of Clean 29 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:29,920 Harbors. He's founded the company in 30 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,160 1980. I established Clean Harbors in 31 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,360 to become one of North America's leading providers of 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,560 environmental and industrial services. 33 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,080 They're probably the largest in the country at this point with 34 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,800 revenues over a $5 billion. So this key, this man is a real 35 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,320 entrepreneur that started from just basically four guys and a 36 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,960 truck. So I'm really excited to bring 37 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Alan on the show today. And you know, Alan has grown 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Clean Harbor steadily over the years, over 4 decades really 39 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,960 through M&A and acquisitions of over 60 companies. 40 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,199 And he's really become one of the leading, you know, providers 41 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:11,520 of these services. He's his organization is over 42 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,480 20,000 people. He's got over 10,000 vehicles in 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,560 his transportation fleet and network, over 700 locations and 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,720 service centers and 100 permitted waste facility, which 45 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,880 is amazing. And I think another interesting, 46 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,840 you know, tidbit about Alan that maybe some of you don't know, 47 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,920 but he was on Undercover Boss and I really thought I saw the, 48 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,920 the, the episode on Undercover Boss. 49 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,240 And Alan, you did a fantastic job of getting in there and 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,240 getting your hands dirty and see what it is on the front lines. 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,280 We're going to talk about that in just a few minutes. 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,880 But the one of the reasons we're here to talk today is about your 53 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,840 book, a great book called Doing the Doing. 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,880 And I want to share with our listeners that book and and you 55 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,640 know, the insights that you gave in that book. 56 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:02,520 And so, Alan, welcome to the show. 57 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,520 It's great to be with you and thank you very much for having 58 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,040 me. Absolutely. 59 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,640 I mean, when you look back, you know, back in when you founded 60 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:14,960 the company in 1980, was your ultimate vision to always become 61 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,120 like the largest environmental industrial services provider in 62 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,280 the country? Or did that kind of vision 63 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,560 evolve over time and you know, as you kind of grew with the 64 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,120 regulatory landscape and whatnot? 65 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,040 Talk a little bit about that if you could. 66 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,400 Sure. So I was 24 when I started Clean 67 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,560 Harbors and I had no clue on how big this company was going to 68 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,680 get. As you can imagine, back then it 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,240 was I was interested in starting a business. 70 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,880 I had been working in the environmental space prior to 71 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,160 that. I left Northeastern University 72 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,760 to actually work full time in the environmental industry and 73 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,120 my boss was a former Boston Patriot football player and I 74 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,440 really enjoyed working for him and tragically died of a heart 75 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,640 attack at 46 years old. And because of that and changes 76 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,920 that were happening after he passed away, I decided I want to 77 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,760 go off and kind of do my own thing. 78 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,640 And never in my wildest dreams that I think we would ever grow 79 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,560 to the size that we're at today. Wow, I'm sure it's been just an 80 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,320 amazing journey or a ride, so to speak, up and down. 81 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,600 I'm sure there was some roller coasters and ups and downs and 82 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,560 valleys and high peaks, mountain tops. 83 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,000 When you go through this growth of this company, if you could 84 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,160 maybe talk about a few of the major events that occurred that 85 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,360 helped catapult Clean Harbors to become what they are today. 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,040 And what were the, you know, highlights of some of these big 87 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,320 events in your life? Sure. 88 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,280 Well, you know, initially when we started out, we were doing 89 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:49,280 emergency response work and a lot of tank cleaning and other 90 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,760 environmental service type work here in New England. 91 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:57,200 But Recra had just kicked in in 1980, you know, and this was a 92 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,320 result of a lot of the Superfund sites that were showing up. 93 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,960 And if you remember back in the day, customers would have their 94 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,480 barrel recycler take their waste away back in the 30s and 40s and 95 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,560 the barrel recycle, the barrel recyclers had more interest in 96 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,600 the barrel than they did what was in the waste, right. 97 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,840 Years and years of kind of handling waste that way resulted 98 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:25,200 in a lot of locations around the country really creating huge 99 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,680 problems like Love Canal. And so we hit the ground just 100 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,600 the right time in 1980 because customers were now starting to 101 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,640 be held responsible for things that happened years and years 102 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,680 before. And so they decided that they 103 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,680 really needed to set up their own environmental departments. 104 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,200 They really needed to focus on who is doing the work that they 105 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,960 had doing. And so, you know, being new and 106 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,360 and not having any negative history and kind of the new 107 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,000 organization out there to offer these kind of services, we 108 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,480 really hit the market right and. You, you guys were at the right 109 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,520 time, at the right place, right? Yeah, absolutely. 110 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,400 And I would say that the RECO regulations are really what 111 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,080 drove our growth. But more importantly, we 112 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,480 followed what our customers needed, right. 113 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,120 And so early on, GE was my biggest account and GE was also 114 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,520 figuring out how to stop doing business with a lot of these 115 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,040 other players and like shrink the number of suppliers. 116 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,880 And they said, look at if you want to continue to be one of 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,400 our supplies, you got to grow and you got to expand. 118 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,640 And, you know, they had plants in Ohio, they had plants in New 119 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,240 York, they had plants in Arizona. 120 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,320 So we really grew as a result of our customer demands forcing us 121 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,680 to grow. And it was just so exciting back 122 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,640 then. I mean, that's great to hear 123 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,760 because you know, and and I guess maybe it with a little 124 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,840 trepidation, you're like, yeah, I got this client. 125 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:50,240 They want us to grow. They say they're going to give 126 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,600 us a bunch of business if I do this. 127 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,120 But then there's this uncertainty, like, will they 128 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,920 really give us that work if I do do that right? 129 00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:02,680 Right, absolutely. I think it was so much part of 130 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,280 our acquisition strategy is like how do we open up and get into 131 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:10,520 those areas where they were so that we could service their 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,800 needs. And that's what really drove the 133 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,800 growth of the company and and quite frankly one of the reasons 134 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,440 why we went public back in 1987. Yeah, I know I I, you know, 135 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,480 it's, it's amazing, you know, to to look and watch the journey of 136 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,760 Clean Harbors and you know, as an industry professional, I've 137 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,440 worked with you guys over the years and senior the 138 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,320 acquisitions over the years and go, wow, I can't believe they 139 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,320 just did that or Oh my goodness, they just acquired this for 140 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,480 these guys are like really going after the market. 141 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,560 This is crazy. And you know, I think too, when 142 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,920 I look back, you guys also were kind of in this road, this mode 143 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,560 of, hey, we'll be that first responder when the emergency 144 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,680 happens. And and then the book, which was 145 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,480 great, you kind of detail kind of that exhilaration, that 146 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,720 adrenaline rush you guys got when you were the first on site 147 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,200 to win the work. And but when you when you start 148 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,320 to see some of the bigger events that happened like 911 Katrina, 149 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,480 some of those bigger events, you guys were at the forefront and 150 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,320 in there at the beginning. I mean, talk about some of those 151 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,400 events that also catapulted the growth of the company. 152 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,840 Yeah, absolutely. So we're that's really in our 153 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,760 DNA here. Our culture is much, very much a 154 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,640 response driven organization and the employees here love, you 155 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,720 know, running out the door, the bell rings, we run out the door 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,880 and we go after the events, right. 157 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,080 And we wanted, we want to do good things for our customers 158 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,640 and obviously for the environment. 159 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,120 And so we've really been involved with so many events 160 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,480 over the years. And you mentioned Katrina and 161 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,640 Reader, for example, the BP spill was a major, major cleanup 162 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,440 effort. You know, 9/11. 163 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Prior to that, just a number of major oil spills throughout 164 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,680 North America that happened, whether it was Valdez up in 165 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:03,880 Alaska where we provided resources there or anything that 166 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,320 you can possibly imagine when there's a large response needed. 167 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,080 You know, our culture here and our mindset is very much 168 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,560 response driven. It's really about who we are. 169 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,760 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love the name Clean 170 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,400 Harbors. I mean, it's like, and I'm AI 171 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,880 used to be a regulator way back in my early career. 172 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,760 And in my I started out in the Office of Water Management. 173 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,280 And so we were, we were the river rats basically because we 174 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,120 were out on the river doing the water quality studies and doing 175 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,480 the fish kill evaluations and things like that. 176 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,280 You know, this is way back in the early 90s, not as far back 177 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,080 as you go, but I mean, still nonetheless, it was back then. 178 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,680 And and so I always really like the water. 179 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:48,160 When you, when I heard those clean harbors, like these guys 180 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,920 get it, man. They're cleaning the water. 181 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,480 Cleaning the harbors is what they do. 182 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,240 This is like innate in their DNA. 183 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,600 This is awesome. Yeah, absolutely. 184 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,600 It's a, it's a, it's a great name. 185 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:02,320 And our logo sort of has survived a lot of marketing 186 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,320 departments here. You know, a lot of people look 187 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,720 at that and, hey, you know, maybe we should think something 188 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,040 differently. And it survived the many, many 189 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,560 different ideas that people have had. 190 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:14,160 And I love the brand and obviously I love the name. 191 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,360 Oh, yeah. No, I mean, exactly. 192 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,440 I mean, and when you think about it, when you're in this growth 193 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,920 mode at the very beginning in 1980, you start, I mean, Fast 194 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,720 forward seven years and now you're going public in seven 195 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,280 years. That's like so fast. 196 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,240 What was that like? You know, I think it's a little 197 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,840 bit like what's happening in the market right now with, you know, 198 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,600 AI, right? It was hot, environmental was 199 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,120 hot back then. A lot of companies were going 200 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,440 public and we were only a $70 million company when we went 201 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,960 public. We only initially were going to 202 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,800 raise $15 million. And at that point, I only had 203 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,200 $15,000 of equity in the business. 204 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,760 And so it was like we really needed to get some cash. 205 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,120 We really need to kind of get away from just having 206 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,440 traditional bank borrowing. And so we need to raise some 207 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,760 money and we're going to raise $15 million. 208 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,200 And then the crash of 87 happened. 209 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:16,280 And you remember in October of 87, we still decided, let's go 210 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,920 let. We've done all the work. 211 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,400 We've got all the audit work done. 212 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,040 We've spent a ton of money. So we subsequently raised $8 213 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,960 million and that took us two weeks to go out and do the road 214 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,600 shows all over the country to raise $8 million. 215 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,120 And you see companies today going public with $8 billion. 216 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,680 Yeah, it's crazy, right? Yeah. 217 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,400 It's crazy. So, but what was great about it 218 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,840 is it it gave us liquidity, it gave us cash. 219 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,280 We did a secondary offering in 88 at $15 this year. 220 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:51,040 So the stock rose and we raised some more capital and then we 221 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,720 were able to use our equity, our publicly traded equity to buy 222 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,480 other companies. So we bought another public 223 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:02,320 company in 1989 called Chem Clear and that gave us plants in 224 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,120 the Mid-Atlantic, in the Midwest, even in the West Coast. 225 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,720 And so again, part of our growth strategy was trying to figure 226 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,440 out how do we continue to grow to meet our customers needs and 227 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,480 having that public equity really helped us out. 228 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Yeah. I mean, the when you guys were 229 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,280 in that growth mode, looking at like the minds that are like, I 230 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,960 guess being in the war room saying, OK, where can we grow? 231 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,200 Who's got the best assets out in the market that are suffering 232 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,120 that we can go and fix? And I love in the book when you 233 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:38,000 talked about you've always had this like innate kind of drive 234 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,760 to turn one man's junk into another man's treasure, right? 235 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,920 Absolutely. And so, you know, when you see 236 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,680 that and you have that mindset and you start evaluating these 237 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,160 these opportunities and these other assets that are there, 238 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,480 what you know, you got to be licking your chops half the time 239 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,360 when you're looking at these these deals. 240 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,760 Absolutely. You know, and we have been 241 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,200 really fortunate that the number of the acquisitions we've made 242 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,520 and we've done over 80 of them now have really worked well for 243 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,440 us. And I think the secret to our 244 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,360 success has really been to have a single platform to run our 245 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,320 business. So when we acquire a business, 246 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640 we really put them on our platform and from a quote to 247 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,760 cash, you know, accounting, HR systems, customer master file, 248 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,200 all that kind of stuff is it's so important because we end up, 249 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,520 when we acquire companies, we find it so fascinating to see 250 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,080 how inefficient they are because they have all these disparate 251 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,440 systems that don't talk to each other and they have people in 252 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,240 between. And, and so I think we've been 253 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,080 able to take advantage of companies that have been not 254 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,880 doing well, maybe as a result of recession like the early 90s or, 255 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,800 you know, the 2008 Great Recession. 256 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,960 So Laidlaw going in bankruptcy back in 2000. 257 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,600 So we really, in many cases you know that the company, but 258 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,560 looking back, I mean they were fantastic deals, fantastic 259 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,760 deals. Oh yeah, I mean, just when I 260 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,040 mean, we're going to get off talk about a topic a little bit 261 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,400 here. But I mean, I because I want to 262 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,200 segue into the whole safety clean situation was took the 263 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,480 whole, I think industry by, you know, storm and and by shock. 264 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,200 And I mean, it was like, Oh my gosh, they just got safety 265 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,800 clean. This was amazing. 266 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,720 Yeah, it was amazing. And you know, the first part of 267 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,240 that business that we bought out of bankruptcy was just some 268 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,600 wonderful assets. I mean over, over a billion 269 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,480 dollars worth of assets we got. And you know, and the key there 270 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,320 was we had the ability to come up with a financial assurance to 271 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,600 meet what the EPA needed for those plants to stay open. 272 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,600 And but after three years, I mean we were really starting to 273 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:54,680 cook back in 2004, 2005 and then subsequently in 2012 when we 274 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,920 bought the remaining safety clean the pots washer business, 275 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,800 that became just a fantastic business for us. 276 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,040 And bringing those businesses together, which was the original 277 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,840 goal back in the day, bringing them, bringing them together has 278 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,640 been the best thing I think to help both of those companies do 279 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,240 so well. You know, in your book there was 280 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,240 like there was a conversation in one of the chapters. 281 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,680 I can't remember which chapter it was now, but it was about the 282 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,440 safety clean conversation and you met with the the the former 283 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,600 CEO of Laidlaw who who was taking some position on you, 284 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,880 right denotes to you. And you kind of you kind of won 285 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,280 the battle on that situation, if you ask me. 286 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,600 Yeah, we did. We were close though. 287 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,480 I mean, we had publicly traded debt back then and they 288 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,120 evidently had had gathered up that public debt and they were 289 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,120 maybe looking for us to trip and fall. 290 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,640 And it turned out to be the other way around. 291 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,720 And it, it was just a, a amazing. 292 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,080 And you know, what's so amazing is the, the people that came 293 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,320 over from, from that business. I mean, yes, fantastic leaders. 294 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,520 Many of them had already been with that company for years and 295 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,200 subsequently stayed with us for years. 296 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,680 So the longevity of a lot of our leadership is a result of us not 297 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,120 only acquiring businesses with great people, but keeping them 298 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,880 and and really making them part of our company's future now. 299 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,080 Yeah, now that is that's so spot on this the recognition of good 300 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,080 talent like that and and then keeping them and bringing them 301 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,520 in. And, and because I've been 302 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,880 through some mergers acquisitions before and they 303 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,760 promise you all, we're going to let you guys, can I main 304 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,800 maintain some leadership roles and, you know, some, some 305 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,920 control over, you know, managing the business and then reality 306 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,080 sets and you're like, you're not doing any of that. 307 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,960 That's very frustrating in, in life, in business life. 308 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,720 But it's great when you can recognize the the, the value of 309 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,680 that business and maintain that and then continue to grow, 310 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,480 invest and fix things, right? Absolutely. 311 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,520 Yeah, having that knowledge of how those businesses ran and the 312 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,560 relationships they had with their customers was so important 313 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,119 to hold on to those people and, and, and we've been blessed, you 314 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,440 know, to to have such a great team here that stayed together 315 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,560 and work together for a long, long time. 316 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,079 That safety clean business, I mean they were used oil 317 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:28,920 recyclers, parts washers and solvent recyclers. 318 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,840 And while they were there picking up those products and 319 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,560 servicing those products, they were either one selling other 320 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,560 products to them, you know, parts, you know, equipment or 321 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,880 PPE or whatever materials and supplies. 322 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,640 And then they were picking up waste too. 323 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,200 So they would, you know, have multiple revenue streams as, as 324 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,720 I kind of saw the business and I was like, wow, you guys just 325 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:59,000 expanded your whole business client list by like tenfold. 326 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,240 With that, absolutely yeah, 300, three, 100,000 customers, you 327 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,640 know, many, many of them small companies, you know, that were 328 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,480 on a subscription that we went out to every, you know, 12 weeks 329 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,600 and provided that POTS washer service. 330 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,440 But as we continue to expand the kind of services to meet those 331 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,680 customers needs, right, we just keep growing and growing and it 332 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,840 was fantastic. That's crazy. 333 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,160 Just amazing. You know, in your book Doing the 334 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,160 Doing, you know it speaks to the dedication and execution of, of 335 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,080 the work. And you know that you've done at 336 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,600 Clean Harbors. But, you know, beyond the 337 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,520 literal meaning, what is the core philosophy or principles 338 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,840 you believe that has been the most, I guess single greatest 339 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,000 driver of the of the success of Clean Harbors? 340 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,280 I think it's our focus on people. 341 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,560 I think knowing that our that our workforces our number one 342 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,920 asset and I think the entrepreneurial spirit that we 343 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,400 have here, the responsive culture that I mentioned earlier 344 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,120 is so important. You know, the, but I think 345 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,880 what's really been important is people could grow in this 346 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,520 company as we grow. And so my, my original 4 347 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,200 employees stayed here for 40 years and it was just an amazing 348 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,960 opportunity. And many, many, many, many other 349 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,880 people grow inside the company. And when you're, when you're 350 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,280 growing, you provide so many opportunities for people. 351 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,920 And it's great that they don't have to leave to go, you know, 352 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,760 grow in their career. They could move into a different 353 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,640 part of the company. We could educate them, we could 354 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,520 get them, you know, degrees, we could provide them training. 355 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,080 And because we really felt that the longer we can keep our 356 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,840 employees, the safer we're going to be #1 because, you know, we 357 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,360 know that safety is most impacted by young new employees. 358 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,480 So that's really going to improve our safety. 359 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,240 But it's really going to provide sort of that, you know, mature 360 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,080 workforce that really understands who we are and and 361 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,920 what kind of services we offer. So that was really, really 362 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,000 important. Yeah, that's great. 363 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,960 I mean, that continuity you're able to continue to manage and 364 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,680 grow with, you know, employees Plus, I mean, it's, you have to 365 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,280 admit it's, it's probably a big cost savings too at the end of 366 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,320 the day, you know? Oh my God. 367 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,320 Yeah, onboarding a new employees and the HR and I mean Oh my 368 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,360 goodness, today is it's way bigger than it ever was when you 369 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,560 started in 1980, I'm sure. Absolutely it must. 370 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,800 It must cost, I'd be guessing because I don't, I don't know 371 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,520 the exact number, but it's probably $15,000 to bring an 372 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,680 employee on now with all the training and you know, medical 373 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,120 and all the things. Yeah, absolutely. 374 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,040 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, well, you know it. 375 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,880 You discuss in the book Trials and Tribulations and can you 376 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,720 share some important or how important it was for you to have 377 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,520 a mentor or mentors that were helping you throughout the tough 378 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,720 times when you were growing the business? 379 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,600 I really liked in the book how you kind of were able to reach 380 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,960 out and find a few of those those gentlemen that really 381 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,240 helped you in certain ways to help you educate yourself more 382 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,720 or or just understand the business better. 383 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,400 I mean, talk about that, if you could, about how important it 384 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,000 was for you. Sure. 385 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,200 Yeah. And I think before we went 386 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,320 public, I had I'd gone back to Northeast and to get my MBA and 387 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,920 I met a professor there who really helped me a lot going 388 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,920 through school while I was still running the company and still 389 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,840 raising four children. It was a tough time, right to 390 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,200 all those things. And he was a fantastic man. 391 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,680 And I asked him to join our board and he became our our 392 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,920 first board member. He became our lead director. 393 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,600 And subsequently for 30 years, he was my lead director. 394 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,160 Wow. My lawyer who actually helped 395 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:44,280 found the company, you know, who incorporated the company was our 396 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,880 general counsel for 40 plus years. 397 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:52,120 And and so those, those early folks were so critical to me 398 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,360 personally and also to the company's success. 399 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,840 But also along the way, whether it be bringing board members in 400 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,560 who could help with a certain area of expertise that maybe we 401 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,680 were struggling with at the time, whether it be regulatory 402 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,400 or might have been finance or it might have been, you know, 403 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,800 growth, whatever the issue is, I think that was so critical for 404 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,920 us. But then bringing in leaders, 405 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,080 you know, bringing in people. So when when we got to $100 406 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,360 million, it was very much hitting the wall. 407 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,920 And none of us in the company at that time had ever worked for 408 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,600 $100 million company. And so bringing people in that, 409 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,680 you know, had the experience, you know, people like Clyde 410 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,760 Keaton, as I mentioned, who came over from GE, for example, and 411 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,920 it was really important to bring people in from outside the 412 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,640 company as much as it was to help people inside the company 413 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,960 grow. So you, you know, what I 414 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,680 realized is that you really needed both. 415 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,560 You just can't have it all being an internally growth orientated 416 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,440 company, right? You've got to get people who 417 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,120 have expertise and leadership skills to come in as you 418 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,120 continue to see the company grow. 419 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,600 And obviously the first year in business we did $600,000. 420 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,320 This past year we did $6 billion. 421 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,880 You need different people. You need a lot of people. 422 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,880 Yeah. And a lot of people, yeah. 423 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,040 Yeah, hello ET Nation. I want to thank you for 424 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,040 listening to the podcast. If you're enjoying the 425 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,920 interviews we bring you, consider supporting the program 426 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,920 by visiting my website at seankgrady.com and buy me a cup 427 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,040 of coffee. 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No, that's great. 470 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:57,360 I mean, and I think as you know, as ACEO as you in your position, 471 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,640 it may at times may have been a struggle or challenge to realize 472 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,560 I need to let go of the reins in a certain area of this business 473 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,320 because I can't do everything or that's really not my best 474 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,480 highest value used, but it's important. 475 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,600 But I just that's not my best skill. 476 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,880 What was that like? You know, making those decisions 477 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,520 to bring in the right people? It was the most important thing 478 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,160 certainly for me because I wore all the hats early on as any 479 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,240 entrepreneur does who owns the business. 480 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,000 But I really felt like, you know, I really focused on 481 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,240 technology. I really love technology and I 482 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,800 think I really could help the business and run better and, and 483 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,280 more efficiently with technology. 484 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,240 And I also felt it was a key differentiator as it related to 485 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,320 our acquisition. So building out software and 486 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,720 building out platforms has been something that has really been 487 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,000 my focus and realizing that maybe Eric Gerstenberg is a 488 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,920 better engineer than me and he does a better job of running our 489 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,600 plants. So how do we continue to develop 490 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,320 Eric to become the Chief Operating Officer and now the Co 491 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,520 CEO, right. So we definitely bring people in 492 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480 and realize whether they're in transportation, they're in 493 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,040 safety or they're in finance, bringing those people in and, 494 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,800 and complimenting your skills to allow you do the things that you 495 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,600 really, really are good at. And that was tough to let go 496 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,080 when you had to start giving up all the power, so to speak, 497 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,440 right? But I think as an entrepreneur, 498 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,280 you know, that's one of the things I learned is that you've 499 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,720 got to surround yourself with people that are better than you, 500 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,280 especially in the areas that might be your weak spot. 501 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,360 Yeah. Now that makes total sense. 502 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,320 I mean, and then I guess that's just one of those Vince in the 503 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,840 in the journey. You can just go, I have to do 504 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,360 this or we're not going to be successful as or as successful, 505 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,200 right? And, and I think you do it to 506 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,000 take one for the team almost right. 507 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,560 Absolutely, yeah. You know, when you we talked 508 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,400 about, you know, building the team and, and acquisitions and, 509 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720 and, you know, as you guys were growing and, and it your growth 510 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,320 has been heavily linked to the strategic acquisitions like 511 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,360 safety, clean, hydrochem, PSC, those types, you know. 512 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:11,120 But how did you and your team evaluate the unique, I guess the 513 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,560 financial or the operational or the regulatory risk associated 514 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,640 with integrating these massive companies? 515 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,360 And then what was your personal like risk threshold that you'd 516 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,040 be like, OK, these are some high stakes decisions. 517 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,200 I yeah, I'm going to go or not going to do, you know, passing 518 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,320 up, you know, tell me maybe walk a little bit through that and 519 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,240 how that happened or what you guys did evaluate. 520 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,960 You know, I think early on we had worked with a couple of 521 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,000 consulting firms and Mackenzie was one of them that that helped 522 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,800 us integrate some of the larger acquisitions we made. 523 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,480 But over the years we really developed a great playbook on 524 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,600 both doing pre acquisition as well as post acquisition, right. 525 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,160 So how do we evaluate and do all our due diligence and how do we 526 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,800 integrate the businesses after we've made a decision to go 527 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,760 forward with it. And I think over the years, 528 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,760 Brian Weber, who now heads up our M and A group is really 529 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,080 honed that playbook and we've set up an organization, an 530 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,080 internal organization to do that. 531 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,240 And, and so I think we're really, really good at it. 532 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,680 And I think I actually brought on one of the key McKenzie 533 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,520 partners who's been on our board now for 10 years and has done an 534 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,800 awesome job for us after he retired from McKenzie. 535 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,480 And it is something that we really do well. 536 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,320 And I don't know if anybody doesn't any better from people 537 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,120 who've told me. And so I think that playbook has 538 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,120 been, you know, sort of a critical thing. 539 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,680 I think the decision about finally making that ultimate, 540 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,520 you know, go or no go decision. We really evolved the board. 541 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,080 You know, we really got their feedback and we really 542 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,880 collaborated with them. And we in 40 plus years of being 543 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,480 chairman of the board, we have never had a, a decision by the 544 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,520 board that wasn't unanimous. And so look at if we're going to 545 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,480 make a vote and someone's not feeling comfortable about it, 546 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,560 well, we're going to continue to work on, you know, what are the 547 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,080 issues here? How do we solve your, you know, 548 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,880 your uncomfortableness with something that maybe we're 549 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,120 contemplating here. So I think realizing that you 550 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,960 need to have the board support, you need to have your leadership 551 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,280 team support, but ultimately when you do make that final 552 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,760 decision, it still could be gut wrenching, right? 553 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,440 Sure. I mean, I mean, especially when 554 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,920 you know maybe potentially you're taking on environmental 555 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,760 liabilities for some of the assets. 556 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,080 And it's like did I do I have enough due diligence to to 557 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,800 determine the real amount that I think I'm going to have to take 558 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,280 on, right. And that's got to be tough. 559 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,520 It certainly is. And I the, the thing that I 560 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,640 always looked at is that's the business we're in. 561 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,080 And so if we're acquiring a business and all of a sudden 562 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,360 some environmental liability pops up, whether it's a off site 563 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,840 Superfund issue or maybe they're they have some problems on one 564 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,240 of their sites that we're picking up. 565 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,280 That's our business. We we felt really comfortable 566 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,120 about taking on those kind of risks. 567 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,680 You know, some of the other risks become even greater of a 568 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,000 challenge for us obviously that are out of our control. 569 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,080 But I think, you know, we've done a good job here and we've 570 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,240 had a good track record. I think so too. 571 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,600 I think so too. I mean, you know, when you talk 572 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,520 about being in this business and, and the importance of 573 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,120 building a solid team around you, you know, how important was 574 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,320 that to build and you know, for the scaling of your business? 575 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,680 I mean, I think we've touched on in the previous conversations 576 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,280 that that we just recently had, but you know, what specific 577 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,720 strategies did you employ to foster say like employee loyalty 578 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,880 and Co cohesive culture over the four decades it's really helped 579 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,720 you grow this business? Well, I think again, one of the 580 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,080 nice things about being a public company is you've been able to 581 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,520 share opportunities of growth and financial wealth and, and 582 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,800 growth with, with a lot of your employees, right? 583 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,480 They could, they could get stock options, they could buy some of 584 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,800 the shares, they could be given performance based share 585 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,000 programs. And so I'm there's nothing that 586 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,520 makes me more happy to see some of our leadership here really 587 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,360 doing well for themselves because the stock is appreciated 588 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,680 and they hung in there with us. They might not have been the 589 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,120 highest paid, but they got stock and they got performance based 590 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,240 awards and that. So going public and having that, 591 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,040 you know, sort of liquidity for them, that was an important part 592 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,600 of of keeping people here. We did lose a number of people 593 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,520 over the years as you would any business after 45 years, right. 594 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,280 I'm proud to say that I think my last count is we've had 20 595 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,800 people leave to become CE OS of other companies. 596 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,680 Yes, I thought that was amazing stat actually that you, you 597 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,440 mentioned that when we met a couple months back at the EI 598 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,880 Digest, a conference in San Diego. 599 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,720 I thought wow, that is really impressive. 600 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,560 You know, you get some quality people that work for you that 601 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,520 now started their own businesses or went to go run other 602 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,120 businesses. Exactly. 603 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,840 Yeah, and you hate to see them leave in many, many examples, 604 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,760 but in some cases they've come back after we've maybe bought 605 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,600 their business, after we acquired them, that they went 606 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,720 off. Yeah. 607 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,800 But that that Clean Harbors alumni is strong out there. 608 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,760 And I always proud of myself in the fact that we can. 609 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,360 You were an important employee while you're here. 610 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,040 When you leave and go off, we want to maintain that 611 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,360 relationship and be able to go out and have a beer together 612 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,440 still. Right And. 613 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,480 So. I think that relationship, you 614 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,080 know, this is a very small community, people in our 615 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,000 industry, and it's nice to maintain those relationships. 616 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,440 Well, you know, now they can become partners with you because 617 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,200 you know, and invariably, you know, all these companies, they 618 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,560 might be able to do most of the things, but they can't do 619 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,400 everything. So everybody needs partners. 620 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,520 Everybody needs partners. We need partners today and 621 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,040 absolutely. Yeah. 622 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,160 Well, you know, you touched a little bit on technology and 623 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,880 I'm, I'm a little bit of a technology geek myself in the 624 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,560 sense that he's back when I was running a consulting business 625 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,960 for waste management and selling services. 626 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,320 And I used you guys, as you know, vendors to deliver the 627 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,080 services for our clients. We had to develop our own 628 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,960 software too, and we released our software back in 2012 and 629 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,080 then it kind of grew. And then we're like, we got to 630 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,120 modernize this thing. We got to make it better. 631 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,440 In 2018, we started to redevelop and make it a cloud solution. 632 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,679 And, you know, everybody who was wanting to be a differentiator 633 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,560 realized the data, you know, was the big thing. 634 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,320 And I always said he who holds the data holds the work. 635 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,639 That's so true. I mean, right and you know, you 636 00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,600 can get into that and, and maybe talk a little bit about your 637 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,000 interest in, you know, you created the wind system there at 638 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,520 at Clean Harbors and how that really built out to just build 639 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,600 your whole platform. Absolutely. 640 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:07,600 So when today is over 750 applications and it basically is 641 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,760 the supporting software for our entire business. 642 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,920 We have a, a CRM and we also have all of our financials in 643 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,280 Oracle, you know, with HR and finance, GL, all that kind of 644 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,800 stuff. But when is everything around 645 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,040 waste tracking, invoicing, quoting, contract management, 646 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,000 you name it. And, and I think your point is 647 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,280 we have the data. We have a massive amount of 648 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,080 data, not only data that we've generated ourselves, but also 649 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,640 through our, the acquisitions we've made, we've kept that data 650 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,560 and we have an on Prem data center. 651 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,320 And one of the things that we're really doing is mining gold out 652 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,400 of that data. Now we're building Co pilots, 653 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,720 we're building agents, we're building assistance, we're using 654 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,040 the classic machine learning. We're also using generative AI. 655 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,960 We're actually kind of creating your own clean harbors GPT to 656 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,920 talk to that data. And so I wish I was 40 years 657 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,840 younger because I, I, I look at where the, where the technology 658 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,800 is going and I say, this is so much fun and this is going to be 659 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,760 life changing for companies and for people. 660 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,280 And, and that's why I stayed on as a, as a technology officer 661 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,320 here, you know, while I stepped down, I just find it to be 662 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,600 amazing technology that we can continue to employ here and do a 663 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,840 better job of servicing our customers. 664 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,360 Well, and that's, that's a great, you know, kind of a, a 665 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,600 segue from the, the big daily day role and into, you know, 666 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,040 kind of like a passion role, a passion play role, right. 667 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,560 Absolutely. That's just kind of gets you 668 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,480 still something to stay connected. 669 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,920 You're still involved with the business, but maybe not so at 670 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,000 the top all the time and and and now you still have a big impact. 671 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,440 I think it's still an amazing segue there for into the 672 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,320 technologies. I'm because technology is 673 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,240 changing. I mean E manifest is still not 674 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,480 been cracked. I mean, as effectively as most 675 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,400 as EPA would love to see it and most service providers are still 676 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,040 struggling to, you know, have a good communication back and 677 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,080 forth with that. And I think the whole, you know, 678 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,320 transportation logistics side of that whole equation is the big, 679 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,480 you know, kind of let down because nobody has really 680 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,440 figured out what's the most efficient way of just doing 681 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,640 everything electronically. And it's still a challenge. 682 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,080 And is it's, I think they're well meaning, but I still feel 683 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,920 like it's going to struggle to really be what they envision it 684 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,960 to be. Yeah, absolutely. 685 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,200 I think I actually think industry is probably a little 686 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,800 ahead of EPA in that regard. And you know, the investment 687 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,560 that the government needs to make in their platforms is not 688 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,400 kept up. And you know, if we want to 689 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,440 build API is directly with our EPA friends, you know it, it 690 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,960 takes a lot of work to get those kind of things done. 691 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,360 They don't have Microsoft probably in the background 692 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,880 helping them design the interfaces and and all the APIs 693 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,440 that you need to integrate with every company who needs to do it 694 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,520 and create standards for Clean Harbors and every other service 695 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,120 provider. Exactly. 696 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,920 Yeah, exactly. So true. 697 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:12,280 Yeah. No, that's great. 698 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,960 I mean, you know, another, another differentiator or I 699 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,280 think something that's been on the horizon that everybody in 700 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,880 industries kind of, you know, enamored by, which is P Foss, 701 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,480 right? I mean, think about, I mean, 702 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,880 this is like the hottest topic. It's the new frontier of the 703 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,240 environmental revolution, so to speak, that we, I mean, climate 704 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:36,120 change is right there too, but this is the biggest thing that's 705 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,680 hottest that's in the industry. Now. 706 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,720 How's Clean Harbors addressing the regulatory impacts 707 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680 industry's facing? And how do you think that you 708 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,200 know what, how big's the potential market for this for 709 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,360 service providers like Clean Harbors? 710 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,480 You know, from what I can see it's it's going to be a big 711 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,160 market and I'm not sure whether it would be bigger than the PCB 712 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,840 market that was back in the 70s if you remember, but very 713 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,800 similar. And it's sort of a different 714 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,920 aspect to clean up, right, Whether it's cleaning up water 715 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,400 on site and removing P fast from the liquid phase or it's 716 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,880 removing the solid materials and bringing it to A an incinerator 717 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,320 like one of our, you know, hazardous waste incinerators to 718 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,280 destroy the P Foss. I think we and I think the 719 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,160 industry is really well positioned to serve EPA and 720 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,600 serve the public. And we got to getting these kind 721 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,920 of contaminated sites cleaned up and removed and and remediated. 722 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,800 So I think it's a wonderful opportunity and I think the 723 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,200 technology is available. We've proven with DOE that we've 724 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:48,040 got the technology to destroy the PFAS in our plants and we 725 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,600 hope that the continued regulatory framework will be 726 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,560 created to to really turn that that whole cleanup effort on. 727 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,400 Yeah, Yeah. No, I think so. 728 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,440 I think EPA still trying to evaluate some of the new limits 729 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,320 that they recently set last year and now the new administration's 730 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,240 kind of pulling back a little bit saying we're going to 731 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:11,040 reassess and I saw there's certainly. 732 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,240 Uncertainty on where things are going, you know, right now it 733 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,960 seems like, but a lot of people are very cautious and concerned. 734 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,280 And I think the framework of where PFOS sits in CERCLA is 735 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,400 kind of one of the biggest challenges a lot of people are 736 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,800 struggling with is just because wow, this could be anybody could 737 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,480 be pulled into a CERCLA situation when they really don't 738 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,600 have responsibility for it. And and so I think if it went to 739 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,960 RECRA or created its own P Foss regulation, I think that would 740 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,960 be the best situation. And moving forward, I don't know 741 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,480 where EPA is going with it yet, but I think that some of the 742 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,880 topics we are talking about on the podcast on a regular basis. 743 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,040 Sure. And I think that I think it's 744 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,560 needed, it really does. That framework is needed and I'm 745 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,120 hoping that, you know, the regulatory agencies will 746 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,360 continue to create that framework that'll make it so 747 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,080 that everybody knows what the playing field is going to look 748 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,640 like. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, 749 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,840 landfills who accept waste, they didn't generate the waste. 750 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,920 They're just storing it. And now all of a sudden they 751 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,160 potentially could be Superfund sites because, you know, it's 752 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,680 it, I mean, it's where does the compliance, you know, really 753 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,600 land? And I think that's the ambiguity 754 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,800 that's out there right now. It still needs a lot of clarity. 755 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,040 Yes, they agree. Well, let's talk about 756 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,840 Undercover Boss because I think that's a great story and I think 757 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,040 you went through a really interesting experience there. 758 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,920 And maybe you could talk a little bit about that 759 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,360 experience. But you know, you know, what was 760 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,240 the most surprising impact or most surprising or impactful 761 00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:46,040 lesson you learn from the day-to-day realities of your 762 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,120 frontline employees and, and maybe how did you take that 763 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,960 information and make subsequent decisions at your executive 764 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,840 level? It was a great experience and 765 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,160 you know, as much as I thought I knew our employees because I, I 766 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,120 spent a lot of time in the field and traveled all all over to our 767 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,320 plants and, and knew many, many employees over the years. 768 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,600 When I got out and started traveling with some of the 769 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,520 drivers or working with some of the field supervisors on some of 770 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,800 the projects they're working on, it was eye opening. 771 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,600 It was, it was surprising to hear maybe how they thought 772 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,400 about corporate, how they thought about leadership, what 773 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:32,360 their issues were, you know, and it was, and I didn't believe any 774 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,840 of them recognized me. So I, and I thought I did a 775 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,160 pretty good job of disguising myself there to, to that. 776 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,160 And, you know, so I, I think, you know, our people work 777 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,560 incredibly hard. And in one event, I was inside a 778 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,200 tank with a woman who did that every day. 779 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,880 And it was in Chicago and it was extremely hot and, and she was 780 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:59,080 cleaning rail cars out as part of her job and really 781 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,800 appreciating the facilities that she had to work in and maybe the 782 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,920 lack of a locker room for a female employee nearby. 783 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,800 And, you know, you started really seeing first hand things 784 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,520 that our employees were challenged with, whether they 785 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,800 were out in the field or they're actually working in one of our 786 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,840 plants. And, you know, driving with a 787 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,760 truck driver there isn't anything better than driving 788 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,360 with a driver. Boy, you're going to hear 789 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,760 everything that you probably don't want to hear, but it was a 790 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,520 great experience to handle to hear feedback directly from one 791 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,840 of our drivers driving up and down the highway here. 792 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,080 I'm sure there was some of moments that probably weren't 793 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,280 caught on tape that you got to hear some, you know, unvarnished 794 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,400 direct conversations, and I'm sure that was very impactful for 795 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,160 you as well. It was and, and also to see how 796 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,880 maybe supervisors interacted with our employees too, you 797 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,520 know, how did, were they treated with respect? 798 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,040 You know, where they supported, you know, because I was just 799 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,680 sitting on this on the sideline might be at the dock and, you 800 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,040 know, wondering, you know, where is the supervisor here? 801 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,600 Oh, he left early today. He always leaves early. 802 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,680 And, you know, hearing little tidbits and things like that was 803 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,000 sort of interesting, you know, but it was, you know, it had a 804 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,440 little bit of downside to it. And that was, is that people 805 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,480 realize how approachable I was in there. 806 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,400 And I started getting reached out by a lot of employees via 807 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,120 phone and e-mail after the episode aired. 808 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,760 And, and even today, unfortunately, people want to 809 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,800 skip the chain of command and they want to reach out to Alan. 810 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,240 And hey, I remember you on Undercover Boss and you helped 811 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,800 out this person and wondering if you could help me out. 812 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,320 And so fun. Yeah, I know. 813 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,840 Well, I mean, you know, it's, it's good to be the, the 814 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,920 people's CEO. Right. 815 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,360 Absolutely. I mean, and I think, you know, 816 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,800 some of the changes you made, were there anything, you know, 817 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,200 like you said, the women's bathrooms did you, you know, 818 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,120 implement a lot of these like things like we have to fix this. 819 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,920 We can't just let them not have you know, the the utilities they 820 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,040 need. And you know what? 821 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,280 We'll talk a little bit if you could do some of the things you 822 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,520 implemented as as a result of Undercover Boss. 823 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,080 Yeah, I think we, we came back and really talked a lot about 824 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,360 the feedback. I used it and by the way, they, 825 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,360 they reached out to me a couple years before and wanted us to to 826 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,640 do it. And it just didn't have the time 827 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,880 at the, at that, at when they asked, but we ultimately agreed 828 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,000 to, and we, we circle back together as a team and sort of 829 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,440 brought all the feedback together and said, you know, 830 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,400 hey, these are some of the things that we should be 831 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,560 thinking about here. And I think putting out an 832 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,000 employee survey and trying to get more feedback. 833 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,040 So now we have a regular broad employee survey that kind of get 834 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,200 employees feedback. And we've, we set up, you know, 835 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,800 some employee resource groups. You know, we have 7 employee 836 00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:00,200 resource groups now set up to, you know, have the, you know, 837 00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,640 employees who want to do it themselves, but they want the 838 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,560 company to support them at the same time. 839 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,000 So I think there was some really good things that came back from 840 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,600 that. And I think we all had a, an 841 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,160 appreciation of how hard our team members work. 842 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,240 But I think having that direct interaction with them and 843 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,360 bringing that message back to the executive team, I think was 844 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:24,960 helpful. That's great. 845 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,120 That's great. I mean, seeing you go on that, 846 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,480 would you recommend other CE OS of large service organizations 847 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,320 to participate in something similar to this? 848 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,600 I got to imagine it's very beneficial. 849 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,320 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 850 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,200 And I've watched a lot of those other episodes, you know, and I 851 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:46,160 find, you know, watching them is is brings back good memories 852 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,760 also. But it also kind of says, you 853 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,720 know what, this this guy is really having an opportunity to 854 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,640 the otherwise wouldn't have to be able to kind of be out there 855 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,600 and and do what he's doing without them saying, oh, that's 856 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,520 the boss I got to I got to hide what's really going on here. 857 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:02,960 Yeah. I can't be, you know? 858 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,840 Yeah, I can't. I got to be protecting myself 859 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,480 here, not giving the real story. Yeah, that's true. 860 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,720 Yeah, you know, when I was reading the book, it was great 861 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,640 book, by the way. I really loved how you prefaced 862 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,240 a lot of the chapters with some major events or regulatory, you 863 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,920 know, dynamic that's just catapulted your, your 864 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,640 organization or that was really helpful to see your journey of 865 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,880 how things were tied to each other and how the company grew. 866 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,400 I I really appreciate that in the book. 867 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,640 But one of the chapters I want to touch on is, is chapter 30 868 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,240 and it's your leadership book. I mean, it's your leadership 869 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:42,280 chapter in the book and there was a couple things there that I 870 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,120 thought was great. So you reflect on some of the 871 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:49,000 qualities and skills and make a good CEO and some of the ones 872 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,880 that you possess to help. Grow your company and I wanted 873 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,040 to. Read a few of these and just get 874 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:54,520 your take on them. OK. 875 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,360 So one of them was there's no shortcut to excellence. 876 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,440 Another one was, I believe another great quality is that 877 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,400 that makes a good leader is curiosity. 878 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,080 And another last one, it's another one here that I thought 879 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,040 is great is I believe one of the secrets of success to be able to 880 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:21,120 grasp the complications, the implications, the subtleties of 881 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,120 your business, to be able to take it back, break it down to 882 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,320 its most simplest things. And like this is how you know 883 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,720 you do it. And I think if you could talk a 884 00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,200 little about those three thought those three items, if you could, 885 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,240 that would be interesting. Yeah. 886 00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:42,200 Well, I'm a business process guy and I have always kind of felt 887 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,280 back when we started initiating business process re engineering 888 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,120 probably in the middle 90s, that understanding sort of your 889 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,800 business and all the different processes that go into it and 890 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,920 understanding how to break down all the barriers that that get 891 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,240 in the way of a business performing better. 892 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,840 And so I, you know, I think I'm one of those guys that really 893 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,920 drives efficiencies. Technology is an enabler of 894 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,480 that. But more importantly, I think 895 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,680 getting the right people in the room and trying to understand 896 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,480 the business process and trying to, like I say, simplify the 897 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,760 problem and break it down into manageable pieces so that you 898 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,720 can attack it and, and make make an improvement in that business. 899 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:30,400 So I think that was really, I think an important skill that I 900 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,200 have and one that I think is used throughout the business 901 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,040 even today. You know, we released a big 902 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,160 software package last night and I'm I walked down and challenged 903 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,920 the checked in on the team that's doing a lot of the phone 904 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,120 calls for people calling in on the hotline and how's it going? 905 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:53,280 And everybody's like high 5 and excited and, and I know that 906 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,760 we're impacting thousands of people with that release that we 907 00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,400 did last night. And so I know that those are the 908 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,600 kind of things that really excite me about making the 909 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,040 business run more efficiently and breaking it down into small 910 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,560 bites so you can eat it. I love that and that that kind 911 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,760 of leads into, I mean, that's kind of following up and you're, 912 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,400 you know, being curious and, and understanding the complexity of 913 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,200 things. But the other one that I really 914 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,200 thought was there's no shortcut to excellence. 915 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,120 I mean, the bottom line is you have to put the time in to be 916 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,280 good at what you're doing. Yeah. 917 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,240 And I think Dan McCarthy, as I mentioned as my lead director, 918 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:30,280 my force lead director, I mean, I, I learned a lot from him. 919 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,800 And one of the things is there's no shortcuts and what whatever 920 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,640 it is, there isn't shortcuts to be taken because in the long run 921 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,080 those are going to come back and bite you. 922 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:50,280 And I think our focus on safety and empowering any employee to 923 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,880 shut a job down and anytime if they feel like it's an unsafe 924 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,120 condition, that to me is excellence. 925 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,840 And I think, you know, it's like, how do we measure the near 926 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,840 misses? How do we measure confined space 927 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,440 entry safety permits? How do we measure things to make 928 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,920 sure that every employee goes home every night the same they 929 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,720 came in, You know, so that safety is such a critical part 930 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,880 of our company and not cutting quarters is so important for 931 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,760 that. Well, and just helping people 932 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,640 understand that they actually do have the power in their own 933 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,760 hands to do a stop work, right, even at the entry level, like if 934 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,160 it's unsafe, I'll stop work. We will stop and listen, right? 935 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,000 You will stop and, you know, figure it out. 936 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,080 I mean, I think empowering employees is that's a real 937 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,120 important piece there. I'm glad you mentioned that. 938 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,280 That's, that's really good. Yeah, I, I thought that was 939 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,960 really great that that's that chapter on leadership and and 940 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,040 some of the skills and there was a few other ones in the book. 941 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,680 I'm not going to go through them all because I want people to 942 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,320 read this book. It's a fantastic read. 943 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,640 Another chapter I was inspired by was your chapter on giving 944 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,760 back. And, you know, if you could 945 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,840 share with us why it's so important to help others and why 946 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,640 you set up the Mckim Family Charitable Foundation to help 947 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,480 others, you know, give a little bit of background on why you did 948 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,160 that and why it's so important to you. 949 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,520 I think first I've been blessed beyond, you know, my wildest 950 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,400 dreams financially and and and personally with four beautiful 951 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,200 children and 11 grandchildren. I, I, every day, I count my 952 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,360 blessings and, but I also realized that not everybody is 953 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,480 as fortunate as me. And early on I got involved with 954 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,200 different organizations that, you know, had needs and I wanted 955 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,080 to be helpful, whether it be in a small way or a large way to, 956 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,040 to support them. I also wanted to give back to my 957 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,920 alma mater. I wanted to give back to Mass 958 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,440 Maritime for their wonderful programs there that creates so 959 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,320 many wonderful employees of ours. 960 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,480 You know, hundreds and hundreds employees came out of the 961 00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,680 maritime Academy. And and so there there's in my 962 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:05,360 mind there's a real need for people who are successful to 963 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,080 give back. And if, if they don't give back, 964 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,920 then what are they doing? You know there's only so why? 965 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,400 Are we here? Why are we here Not we're here 966 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,640 to help one another. And you know, whether it's a 967 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,920 local hospital or it's a local food pantry, if we have 968 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,400 capacity, we need to help, right? 969 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,800 And I, I, and I wanted to instill that into my children. 970 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,440 And that's why I created the Family Foundation because I 971 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,240 wanted my 4 kids to be part of that. 972 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,760 And when I pass away, I want them to do that. 973 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,160 I want them to, you know, run that foundation and and and make 974 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,560 good decisions and and help others. 975 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,960 Well, I think you're doing just an amazing job with that. 976 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,280 And, and I couldn't be, you know, more proud to just say I 977 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:56,200 know Alan Mckim and thank you for for doing that. 978 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,600 I mean, it's, it's, it's amazing. 979 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,840 And you know, you, you can tell your Christian faith is just 980 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,560 immense. Putting together a terrible 981 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,840 foundation like that and, and giving to others is just really 982 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,000 the true essence of humanity and what we do in life and what we 983 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,480 should be doing. You know, I, I went through the, 984 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,920 the final postscript. You know, it's like the 10 985 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,760 lesson learned for, you know, entrepreneurs trying to get into 986 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,680 the business, right? And they're really 10 here. 987 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,800 I'm not going to go through all 10, but I just want to mention a 988 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,240 few of them. And you could just touch on a 989 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:28,280 couple, but one is safety. We've been talking about safe 990 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:29,680 being first, right? Safety's first. 991 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,640 Second one was cash is king. And you know, and then the third 992 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,800 one was raise money when you can, not when you need to, It's. 993 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,080 So true. It's so true. 994 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,520 You know, like that's one thing that I have regrets about early 995 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,040 on when, when I was running the business, when I was starting 996 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,520 the business, I, I only had $15,000 invested in the company 997 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,400 and I really was borrowing on receivables and living hand to 998 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,720 mouth. And I wish that I had maybe 999 00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:03,040 taken on a partner or brought more equity in and because then 1000 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,920 when I really needed the equity, maybe it wasn't the banks 1001 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,360 weren't willing to lend. I was too over leveraged. 1002 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,920 And so I think that was just one of the things that I always look 1003 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,560 back and say maybe those first 10-15 years in business might 1004 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,000 have been a little bit easier if we had a little bit more cash 1005 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,400 and had not been so tight running to the mailbox every day 1006 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,800 to get, you know, paychecks covered. 1007 00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:30,800 Yeah, right. I like #5 it said. 1008 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,640 Build a strong professional advisor network, have a great 1009 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,040 legal team, a good banking, a good accountant and a good board 1010 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,640 of directors, right. Those are some like key ones 1011 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,760 there. And I think that's great words 1012 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,320 of advice and be willing to take risk and fail, but obviously 1013 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,280 don't fail too often. But you got to be able to do 1014 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,920 that, right? Absolutely. 1015 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,240 Yeah, and the book was amazing. I think anybody who's in our 1016 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,160 industry, in the environmental industry needs to read this 1017 00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,920 book. I promoted it on my monthly 1018 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:06,280 newsletter that I do for the podcast and sends out to a 1019 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,640 couple 1000 people that's on my list and I get it out and, and 1020 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,560 share with, you know, what's what's the latest episode? 1021 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,240 Who's on the horizon? Do kind of a NEWS UPDATE for the 1022 00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:19,920 month, what's going on. And then I always do a book of 1023 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,400 the month, and I highlighted your book this month. 1024 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,720 Oh, wonderful. Thank you very much for that. 1025 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,240 You bet. It's really a tribute to the 1026 00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:31,960 employees here at Clean Harbors and you know, I've been blessed 1027 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,760 be because of them. Oh, I can, yeah. 1028 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,600 Yeah, it's great to. It's great to have you on the 1029 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,320 show, Alan. I really appreciate your 1030 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,320 willingness to take my invitation to come on to the 1031 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,080 show. I think you are an amazing 1032 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,400 individual, an amazing leader in our our business. 1033 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,840 You are kind of like one of the Mount Rushmore of the 1034 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,240 environmental business leaders in my mind when I think about 1035 00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:57,200 who's grown this business to where it is. 1036 00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,200 This is great to have you on the show. 1037 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,920 I really appreciate you. Thank you very much for having 1038 00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:03,760 me and I really appreciate your kindness. 1039 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,880 Thank you. All right, Alan, well, we're 1040 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,800 going to get this out episode out here in the next week and 1041 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,440 it's going to be great. And feel free to share with all 1042 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,240 your friends and your network. I appreciate it. 1043 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,800 And I'll give you, I'll give you some feedback by e-mail, if 1044 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,600 that's all right, along the way. Absolutely, 100%. 1045 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,040 I would love it, absolutely. Thanks for listening and 1046 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,720 watching the show. If you enjoyed. 1047 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,560 The show then please share it with your friends and Co workers 1048 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,160 on social media and tell somebody in person. 1049 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,520 Thanks for being with us, ET Nation.